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One of the questions that I brought up in my review of Jonathan Haidt and Greg Lukianoff’s The Coddling of the American Mind was whether the usual high degree of unhappiness found on college campuses is getting worse. This could just be random noise, but here’s an article from New Zealand finding a similar trend:

Demand for university counselling services grows 25 per cent in two years

Adele Redmond 05:00, Nov 17 2018

More than half of students who responded to a recent NZUSA mental health survey said they had considered dropping out. University students say they are on suicide watch for friends and flatmates as demand for on-campus counselling grows.

One in 13 university students – 13,000 in total – accessed campus counselling services last year, nearly a 25 per cent increase on the 10,500 who used the services in 2015, according to data released to the New Zealand Union of Students’ Associations (NZUSA) by all universities except Lincoln.

Haidt and Lukianoff point to Jean Twenge’s recent book iGen. She looks at a lot of American data, such as the General Social Survey, and surmises that people born from about 1995 onward, who went through junior high school and high school with social media on smartphones, are not on average in good shape emotionally.

In general, research universities have not been very enthusiastic about researching the topic of psychological damage that universities might be doing to young people.

I’m a big fan of social science but over the decades I’ve seen very little social science done by universities on close-at-hand topics such as what kind of living arrangements are most conducive to the flourishing of college students. For example, I went to college at Rice U., which has a “college” system of dormitories where you stay in the same dorm for four years. And each dorm has its own dining hall, with family-style meals at set times. (I believe some Ivy League colleges has similar arrangements.)

The downside is that the food was cooked in a central kitchen and trucked around to the dorms’ dining halls, so it was pretty dismal by the time it arrived. Also, you didn’t get any choice, you just got whatever was being served. The upside is that you have a relatively stable community of about 250 people that you eat and live with for a year, and next year, 75% of the same people are back. It’s like a giant fraternity house, except you are assigned to a “college” largely at random.

Is that a better system psychologically, less anomie-inducing, than the more conventional dorm and dining hall set-up?

I don’t know. It would seem like an interesting question for a research university to research, but if that research is ever done, I haven’t heard about it.

 
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  1. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Yeah, his mother took up with a ‘Hungarian’ doctor. LOL.

  2. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Magnolians.

  3. Andrew M says:

    We’ve had universities for centuries: they seem unlikely to be at fault here. Nor can we blame Obama’s executive order broadening Title IX, since this article is about New Zealand.

    One common factor between the U.S. and New Zealand (and the UK) is rapidly rising student debt. That’s known to cause mental health problems. Do students in countries with free university (e.g. Sweden, Germany) suffer the same problems of anxiety and depression? (Yes, looks like they do: https://www.dw.com/en/more-german-students-suffering-from-depression-anxiety-panic-attacks/a-42712076 )

  4. I actually liked the food…. somewhat after my time but:

    https://dailycaller.com/2015/11/06/yale-student-shrieks-at-prof-for-denying-her-safe-space-video/

    In a twisted way it still feels like home…

  5. Anonymous[320] • Disclaimer says:

  6. @Andrew M

    Hamlet seemed kind of down in the mouth over vacation from Wittenberg U.

    • Replies: @Andrew M
    , @Paul Jolliffe
  7. Bill P says:

    Maybe the problem is that colleges are mostly female and young people are not having sex as much as they used to.

    If you have a large body of young women who are not getting any on a regular basis it’s going to be a troubled environment.

    This is what happens when you put a bunch of lesbians in charge.

    • Disagree: TTSSYF
  8. Tyrion 2 says:

    Is that a better system psychologically, less anomie-inducing, than the more conventional dorm and dining hall set-up

    Among the people I know, those who attended collegiate style universities have more and better friends from their time there. I suppose it is the atmosphere…

  9. If I had to guess, I would say debt may the biggest issue. It’s hard to be happy knowing there is a ton of bricks hanging over you that’ll certainly crush you should you be forced to just do temp work after getting a sheepskin.

    Another one is the lack of focus on local and regional news. Students reading the local rag was still fairly common a couple of decades ago, but now it’s nearly nonexistent. If you’re upset about a local tax issue, or proposed school dress code, you can do something about it. Don’t like Obamacare, gun rights, various fed. regulations? Next to nothing you do will matter.

    Also, the whole man/woman interaction thing has changed dramatically in the past ten or 15 years.

  10. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:

    One common factor between the U.S. and New Zealand (and the UK) is rapidly rising student debt.

    Another is that both countries speak English and are predominantly European, so the American infection spreads easily to those areas via mass media; Buchanan noted something like this occurred back in the 1960s: Japanese university students protested against the Vietnam War after seeing footage of Americans doing the same even though Japan didn’t send troops there. But then again, Japan is a notoriously stressful country and hardly anyone there speaks English with any kind of proficiency, so maybe not. Lots of people kill themselves in Japan every year.

    I wonder how much anti-bullying initiatives in the 2000s have contributed to the rise of communism on social media in 2018.

    I wonder how much these “fat acceptance” campaigns have contributed to the angry feminist movement. Everyone wants to be beautiful, especially young women. I can imagine what being inundated with messages telling young girls they should be happy they are ugly and unattractive would do to their self confidence. Wouldn’t a superior strategy be to advocate healthy lifestyle choices over “be happy that you’re ugly unlike all of us cool people behind this advertisement you’re seeing right now, fatty.” These fat acceptance campaigns are like the skinny, attractive girl in high school who keeps a couple of overweight friends around as a confidence booster. The ad execs are like, “aren’t we so awesome for telling these fatties they should be happy with themselves? So many people are going to see this ad and think we’re so cool.”

  11. The decrease in mental health is directly tied to the Greivance and Resentment strands of modern leftie thought. As well as the colleges, you see it it the US Dems and the UK Labour Party, especially among women.

    Girls adopt victimhood because victims are put on a pedestal with a spotlight on them and praised for being brave etc. But being a victim means they have no control over their life, which makes them more of a victim. Eventually they’ve painted themselves into a psychological corner and break down, blaming everyone except themselves..

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @peterAUS
  12. Maybe it’s a bit like declining test scores. More people in college than there used to be, so the odds of someone with mental health issues being in college is greater?

    • Replies: @HallParvey
    , @Thea
  13. In most colleges, almost everyone moves out of the dorms after freshman year. Only a select few go beyond the first year. A small number may move into frat houses, but most just get off-campus apartments.

    A lot of people will tell you that freshman year is some of the most fun they had in college. However, the lack of space and privacy motivate people to move out. Then they look back nostalgically at the first year.

    • Agree: Travis
    • Replies: @Barnard
    , @Alec Leamas
  14. anon[117] • Disclaimer says:

    Another statistic that may or may not shed some light on the situation is the suicide rate, which seems to have increased nearly every year across almost all age groups since the late 90s when the internet started taking off (and cable news). In fact, the total number of suicides for both males and females began taking off around the year 2000 after remaining flat since the 1980s; and the crude rate has been increasing for both genders since the same year, with both the male and female rates increasing after a long downward trend. 2000 was also the year the country had its first nervous breakdown over the 2000 election and recount. 2000 seems to be an inflection point (or maybe it was 9/11). People who were in college back around the year 2000 are close to being in the age group with the highest increase in the suicide rate, with white males most affected: 45 – 65 (and white males in particular probably consume more internet news than most other demographics like white females + the average cable news viewer is ~60+, the same demographic with the highest/near-highest increase in suicide rate). I would bet that whatever stresses are leading older Americans to kill themselves might also be present in these college kids who spend all day on Twitter and MSNBC, despite having lower suicide rates at that age.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States

  15. @Tyrion 2

    Maybe I’m wrong about this, but don’t British students generally avoid student housing and just choose their own personal housing?

    Also, my understand is that for British students, there’s not much socialization on or near campus (unlike America). The socialization happens in off-campus pubs. That’s where students congregate and party.

    I’m not British, so I’m speaking based on what I’ve heard. I could be wrong.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @Lurker
    , @black sea
  16. AKAHorace says:

    Are there any comparisons between those who go to college and those who don’t ?

  17. Tyrion 2 says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Oxford, Cambridge and Durham are universities composed of seperate colleges. Everyone lives in during the first year, but normally moves out with friends to private rented houses for the following years.

    Socialising tends to take place in the colleges a lot during the first year, and less so after, but the sense of community remains.

  18. 100 years ago only ~1-2% of each age cohort got a scientific education on the assumption that that’s the percentage of folks amenable to it, (IQ > ~130) nowadays it’s 20-60% in Western nations, in the US 40% have a college degree. Most should be overburdened, particularly those receiving affirmative action of any kind, the increase in bullshit degrees with the prospect of bullshit careers shouldn’t make it any better. US student loans are an additional burden.

    • Replies: @Ibound1
  19. @Tyrion 2

    I don’t know if it’s the living arrangements, as I’m not sure if that even matters anymore with the students’ noses down in their smartphones all day long. I think Steve’s mention of that is a good point, but would probably apply to the population of < 20-25 y/o in general, not just in college. Maybe the young people not in college with the same problems won't go see counselors, but will just get into some kind of drugs.

    At college though, I will say that the anti-straight-white-male "Vibe" is pretty extreme these days, and may cause mental distress. OTOH, these guys are more likely to tough it out than any of the rest of the Student Snowflakes.

    I doubt it's the loan money. They seem to spend it very freely, and most have no idea how hard it'll be to get out of that debt.

    The student bubble will all implode anyway, and it'll be for the best in the long run.

    BTW, Tyrion 2, nice effort trying to explain bad assumptions to Mr. Unz. I gave up before you. Some people ya just cain't reach…

    • Agree: Tyrion 2
  20. jim jones says:
    @Tyrion 2

    I read Physics at Durham and luckily had some relatives nearby who let me have a room. If you have rich parents they will probably rent a house for you and some buddies.

  21. @Tyrion 2

    Dorms are mostly unknown in Germany, only some fraternities offer them, fraternities being a fringe of the student body nowadays.

    They don’t mak’em any more like they used to, now they fight microaggressions:

    Jewish Students After Fencing Exercise, Heidelberg, Germany 1906.

  22. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @theo the kraut

    The German style of fencing was designed to produce facial scars.

  23. It’s a good point you make about the failure to research how universities work. Oxford and Cambridge both have college systems where students live in in college for their whole degree (or possibly off the main site but still with college folk). Unlike at Rice food is cooked in college (and chef’s sometimes have Michelin stars). Another key feature is that some academic staff live in the college as well, so undergrads get used to intelligent adults they can relate to. Intercollege competitions also help build a spirit of college family. I had the impression that when the early universities in the USA were built they tried to use this model, but found it complicated to build and dropped it along the way. Eventually in the rush to force half the population into universities it was totally forgotten that the people were human beings who had just abandoned their home communities.

    It’s particularly bizarre that this is not researched when you consider that it’s probably one of the biggest change to our mating/social behaviour our species has had to deal with. It’s really quite unnatural. Managed well I expect it could be pro-natal (if small supportive communities were supported such that relationships were well established by early twenties). Would be relatively simple to setup experiments to test whether it has an effect on snowflake-ism (and fertility), given the building boom universities are having.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  24. Anon[319] • Disclaimer says:

    I worked 30 hours a week at a retail job and lived at home while I commuted to community college for three years, then a nearby private college to finish by B.S. So, I know nothing about dorm-living, student loans, or university mental-health counseling. But this was nearly 40 years ago, and I still don’t have a smart phone.

  25. So we should start referring to it as Sociopathic Media?

    BYW, there is very little actual science in Social Science.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  26. Photo of a recurring iSteve concept

  27. Lurker says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Most students will be in student housing for the first year and private, shared, housing thereafter.

  28. @JohnnyEnglish

    Thanks.

    At Rice, you had one professor with his family live in a house adjoining each dorm/”college”, plus a bachelor junior professor. And 8 or 10 professors were “associates,” and usually dropped by for the free lunches.

    In my dorm, the “master” (a term they likely will dump shortly as triggering) was Bill Martin, who was probably Rice’s best known professor in the late 1970s (he was an expert on evangelical Christianity and was interviewed on “60 Minutes” about once a year) and an incredibly great guy. He’d bring his pals from the Houston community by for dinner, like Frank Beard, the drummer of ZZ Top, and Racehorse Haynes, the top criminal defense attorney in Texas. Through him I met a couple of times William Broyles, who was the founding editor of Texas Monthly, then the editor of Newsweek, then a screenwriter (Apollo 13, Cast Away).

    I thought it was a great system, but I never hear much discussion of it.

    • Replies: @slumber_j
    , @anon
  29. The University of Michigan has a small, liberal-arts focused Residential College (RC) — only a hundred or so students per freshman year (both my daughters were in it). They all live in the same small, old dorm, and most of the first and second year classes are small and seminar style held in that dorm building. Theoretically, one could spend all of freshman and sophomore year and never leave the building. Some kids went to morning classes in their pajamas, which I thought was a good indication of what had gone so terribly wrong at the universities — infantilization. The students are indulged like small children and predictably act like them. So the rising levels of maladjustment — could the infantilization be a cause of the unhappiness, or an effect? Oh yes, the RC’s little separate graduation ceremony is a wonder to behold: each graduating student gets an unlimited time on a small stage to do say or do whatever he-she-it wants — do yoga, recite a poem and cry, do a native American dance, you name it. One kid, when I had to endure it, appeared in his underwear. It takes about 3 hours to get through 90 graduates, another manifestation of the imbecilic indulgence granted the children as step into the world as “college educated” adults.

    The RC, incidentally, was founded by Carl Cohen, a philosophy professor who came to Michigan
    in the 1950s and was still teaching there when my daughters were there in the early 2000s. Cohen was an old -fashioned lefty and sued Michigan for its Affirmative Action policy: I think he may have been interviewed on 60 Minutes — he was widely hated in AA. My guess is that he never went to his undergrad classes in his pajamas.

  30. NZopinion says:

    I’m a Kiwi millennial and have been out of the uni system after doing a BA in history and graduating in 2012. A few things worth keeping in mind:

    1. NZ has (I believe) the highest youth suicide rate in the world prior to the start of university for young people. So I think these problems precede entrance to uni.

    2. NZ has a very loose culture compared to the USA. You really are mostly free to do and be what you want with very few people willing to get up in your face about it. This can have benefits but it also has costs.

    3. Due to nuclear testing in the Pacific, there is a hole in the Ozone layer above most of NZ. This means you can get ruthlessly burnt if you spend too long in the sun. So people probably don’t get as much sun as they should which can affect mood considerably.

    4. Very atheistic population that was also strongly religious until recently. The strength of belief is still there but the object of belief is gone. That belief can latch onto different things which likely don’t provide the type of psychological depth or support that Christianity did/does. University would obviously be a prime location where people would be exposed to these new ideas.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    , @peterAUS
    , @anon
  31. Andrew M says:
    @Steve Sailer

    I don’t doubt the *absolute* level of mental health problems in college, for all the reasons you’ve given before. It may well have been around since Shakespearean times. But the *relative* increase in problems in the last few years does correspond to the relative rise in student debt levels.

    Germany is very much the exception: student fees were abolished entirely in 2014 (though they were quite low before that anyway); but mental health problems amongst students there have risen just as much as elsewhere, and in the same timeframe.

    Another possible explanation, related to technology (but not social media), is the decline in grip strength of young people. Perhaps physical weakness corresponds to poor mental health, through lack of exercise. (Source: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/06/13/481590997/millennials-may-be-losing-their-grip )

  32. At Rice, “masters” were renamed “magisters” in the last year or so. Got to keep up with the Yales. By the way, does anyone know what Roman slaves called their owners?

    Family style dinners and CK (central kitchen) are long gone. Each college has its own dining hall, but the colleges are grouped together such that 2-3 colleges share a cafeteria serving line. (And today’s students complain about the food as much as Steve’s generation did).

  33. slumber_j says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Harvard already dropped “Master” for the head of a house, idiotically. The houses are Harvard’s colleges: Freshmen all live in the dorms in Harvard Yard, then everyone gets assigned to a house, where they live for the next three years.

    A Yale alumnus in love with the Oxbridge college system offered Yale the money to get this system going in I think the 1930s, and they turned him down. He then offered it the money to Harvard, which accepted, and started the house system. Yale saw that it worked and asked him if the money was still on offer: incredibly, he said it was, so they started their colleges.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  34. It’s probably a mix of young adulthood, atomization (and atomizing propaganda) and the fact that at least half of college students have no business being there.

  35. Tiny Duck says:
    @Bill P

    Alert! Alert! Incel in the area!

    Girls are successful romantically. Only white boys are not getting any

    What we are really talking about is white students not being able to cope with a small loss of privilege. white students are more likely to have mental health
    Issues because they are soft and are unable to deal with adversity

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @interesting
  36. Anonymous[169] • Disclaimer says:
    @Andrew M

    One common factor between the U.S. and New Zealand (and the UK) is rapidly rising student debt.

    One common factor between the U.S. and New Zealand is the rapidly rising presence of foreign persons on their soil. The Anglo-Celtic natives are on track to become a minority very soon.

  37. IHTG says:

  38. Bitfu says:

    Speaking of crackups—this is great. Lubos Motl: Do they really believe in a black model who is an achieved iOS coder?

    https://motls.blogspot.com/2018/11/do-they-really-believe-in-black-model.html

    • Replies: @Haxo Angmark
  39. Central kitchen, trucked meals?

    I lived and thrived in a similar arrangement, but with important differences. There were several kitchens in the dorms., with fresh food close to wherever you lived. I worked in one for a year in exchange for room and board, and then I was an RA for two years.

    One funny phenomenon I observed involved kids that even then were soft. They would get there and complain about having a small room and having to eat cafeteria food (which I cooked). Lots of them, many from out of state who failed to get into the Ivy League, were spoiled rich kids with new cars. I, on the other hand, had come after seven months in a log cabin I built, so I was in heaven.

    Another great feature was all the college girls, right down the hall for four years…

    Looking back, college like that really is one of the best parts of life. Nobody has any right to complain.

    But eating meals carried in from one, central kitchen at Rice? I feel for you, brother.

  40. Sid Richardson ’87 here. The very last year Sid Rich was all male. Wouldn’t it be also interesting to explore the mental health effects of co-ed dorms?

    • Agree: Thea
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  41. black sea says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    A friend of mine did a graduate degree at Oxford. She told me that at the time she was a bit concerned about her increased tippling, but that it was hard to gauge your drinking when everyone around you was already an alcoholic.

  42. Art Deco says:

    Youth suicide rates in this country have since 1972 fluctuated in a band between just shy of 10 per 100,000 per year to just shy of 14 per 100,000 per year. In 2016, they were … 13 per 100,000 per year.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  43. Art Deco says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Lots of them, many from out of state who failed to get into the Ivy League, were spoiled rich kids with new cars.

    At no time in the last generation has more than 10% of the collegiate population been drawn from the ranks of actual rich kids, spoiled or not.

    I, on the other hand, had come after seven months in a log cabin I built, so I was in heaven.

    Bully for you.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Mr. Anon
    , @Buzz Mohawk
  44. Art Deco says:

    What’s distressing isn’t the ‘mental health’ of the collegiate population, but excess use of tertiary schooling, the rot in secondary schooling and tertiary schooling, and the financing methods which leave young people with so much debt. Another thing is the rather stark decline in the last 20 years in the propensity of the young to marry. It appears as if we’re now in a situation where 30% of each cohort will never marry. Haven’t seen any recent data on the phenomenon, but cannot help but notice that three young men proximate to our household have had the same experience in recent years: a wife who walked out on them 20-40 months after they were married. None of these young men are troublesome individuals. At least two and perhaps all three of the women had adulterous entanglements during these brief marriages.

  45. Ibound1 says:

    There is an increased demand for mental health counseling because there is a very cheap supply of mental health counseling. That is economics 101. Need to delay an exam? Mental health counseling. Feel bad about a grade? Mental health counseling. Broke up with your girlfriend or boyfriend? Mental health counseling. Want to chat? Mental health counseling.
    Keep supplying it. It will get used.

    • Replies: @John Mansfield
  46. @theo the kraut

    I wonder how many of these Jewish students went on to backstab Germany by supporting communism and backing US entry into WW1 to defeat Germany in return for Britain’s “gift” of Palestine.

  47. College students are constantly being told that they’re in need of counselling whether it’s grief counselling for the death of a student they’ve never met or rooms with cookies and counsellors on hand to deal with exam stress so I guess it’s to be expected that many would partake. There are people on campus whose careers are based on getting as many students as possible to come see them.

    If you build it, they will come.

  48. peterike says:

    Many colleges these days are more like hotels. Instead of one cafeteria serving up slops, you have food courts which are often staffed by commercial vendors. A random sample: at the University of South Florida, the food court features:

    Chick-Fil-A
    Jamba Juice
    Moe’s Southwest Grill
    Panda Express
    Papa John’s
    Subway

    These are typically available as part of the student dining plan (i.e. “free” in terms of walking up and getting food without shelling out cash, though your parents may have dropped $1,000 on a dining plan).

    On top of that, they have fancy dining options:

    https://usf.campusdish.com/en/LocationsAndMenus/OnTopofthePalms

    In the dormitories, there is often a cleaning service that comes in to maintain a basic level of livability. There are lounges with big screen televisions and video games. There are usually multiple gym options, including all kinds of classes and trainers available.

    This only begins to touch on the amenities found in dorm buildings. Again, as a random sample, check out what South Florida offers:

    https://www.usf.edu/student-affairs/msc/building-amenities/index.aspx

    Yes, they have a “mothering room.”

    Below the level of super-competitive Ivies and a few others, most schools have to compete for students, not the other way around. Many do so by scaling up student “lifestyle” amenities, rather than, say, hiring more world-class professors. Because who’s going to college to learn anything anyway?

    It’s not your father’s college anymore. It’s not your college anymore, either.

  49. Barnard says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    I always thought it was the restrictions on alcohol in your living space that motivated them to move off campus as quickly as possible. Have colleges done away with restriction alcohol in Freshman dorms?

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  50. dr kill says:
    @Bill P

    The most humorous part of angry chicks not getting enough is that they refuse to admit it, when any competent cis male has enough of his own experimental evidence to prove them wrong. Maybe that Greenfield guy was on to something. I love this study.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-smerconish/semengate-stuns-scientifi_b_853164.html

    The good Dr says his intent was to amuse. He doesn’t understand there is no humor allowed in Progressivism.

    • Replies: @Bill P
  51. dr kill says:

    May I add the wisdom of a friend with a PhD from Sidewalk University who observed; You know you did good when you wake up and last night’s girl is wearing nothing but your shirt, standing at the stove, and asking how you like your eggs. So true.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
  52. BB753 says:

    In Europe, except Great Britain, students rarely live on campus. It seems reasonable that living 24 hours a day in the same place where you study is not the best arrangement possible. My advice is for students to live off campus.

  53. anon[251] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco

    At no time in the last generation has more than 10% of the collegiate population been drawn from the ranks of actual rich kids, spoiled or not.

    My mileage has varied.

  54. @black sea

    Brideshead Revisited.

    “Do you really think we should be getting drunk every day?”

    “Yes, yes I do.”

    You’ve given me a chuckle that will last all day.

  55. @Art Deco

    Wait, your anecdote speaks to divorce, not those who never marry. Of course, those problems are related, but it seems getting married can be done. Staying married is far more difficult.

    I have two female friends whose husbands just walked out: one to a fifth wife, the other to bachelorhood. Two other female friends left their husbands, both because they were exasperated with the guys. So that’s four divorces I got to watch, or am currently watching. I accept no excuses and consider that all these marriages could have been saved and even been happy if the social and family pressure were for reconciliation. Instead, the prevailing mood is Go Be Happy! If that means you break up a home and a soul, well, so be it.

    • Agree: Rosie
    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Art Deco
  56. ZeroDay says:

    Noticed a few times when talking to otherwise smart, white teens, they will mention having low-level, psychological conditions like it is a humble brag. As in, “So me and my best friend were on snap last night…because we both have insomnia…blah blah blah.”

    White teens are encouraged to play this stuff up in order to win social brownie points, both by highschool teachers and their peer group. Constant chatter about white privilege, attention on social media, perhaps the college admissions process itself, where kids are encouraged to play up adversity narratives. Kids also receive preferential treatment from highschool teachers for having these ailments (handing in late assignments, exploring their “anxiety” in essays, etc.) When they are exposed to the cancerous viewpoint of the university, it’s gasoline on the fire.

    • Replies: @Song For the Deaf
  57. The upside is that you have a relatively stable community of about 250 people that you eat and live with for a year, and next year, 75% of the same people are back. It’s like a giant fraternity house, except you are assigned to a “college” largely at random.

    Sounds kind of like a Yeshiva . Although in Yeshivas, being typically smaller, it’s more like a community of 50 people that you are with. The common experience is enhanced (or exacerbated,I suppose) by everyone taking the same classes, as well as a much longer academic day. In some ways more like the Army experience.

  58. @Bill P

    Maybe the problem is that colleges are mostly female and young people are not having sex as much as they used to.
    If you have a large body of young women who are not getting any on a regular basis it’s going to be a troubled environment.
    This is what happens when you put a bunch of lesbians in charge.

    This is heading in the right direction. However, it’s not “not getting any on a regular basis” it’s that it’s emotionally unsatisfying, unfulfilling.

    Basically the problem is feminism and feminization.

    In the old order coeds had a clear mission–find a man. You study something either interesting to you–English, art, music–or useful–teaching, nursing–but in the process you are finding a man. And–crucially–the men a) available and b) are worth finding.

    Now we have feminism and a highly feminized environment in our universities.
    – girls are supposed to prepare for some sort of “career”
    – there are the majority of people on campus, men are the minority; more sexual competition for women
    – college educated people aren’t even supposed to think about marriage until they are in their late 20s or early 30s
    – the men on campus–with feminized bureaucracy–are not supposed to be men and a lot of them hardly seem more manly or have a better potential career track than the girls
    – the men on campus, with the feminized rules, feminized society and the delayed marriage custom aren’t really wife shopping … but of course still would like to have sex
    – the hookup culture–sex maybe, but no prospect of life committment–that sprouts up is deeply unsatisfying to girls

    Does this sound remotely appealling to anyone but the lesbians?

    ~~~

    As with my argument for saying “separation”–demanding that those of us who are conservative be able to have and conserve our own nation, separate from the minoritarians, “nation of immigrants” globohomo garbage–it would be goodness to be able to have some colleges/universities run traditionally with national survival/propagation as the mission.

    – traditional academics
    – solid–family supportting career tracks
    – HBD aware social science
    – traditional social mores
    – conservative and bonding living arrangements, that nonetheless promote m/f interaction
    (Steve’s college system is a good one)
    – pro-marriage ideology
    – education / counseling for marriage; (helping young men and women understand what’s important to them, what’s a good match, what’s incompatible)
    – campus matching and marriage promotion

    If Bill or Jeff or Warren would like to cut loose a few billion for me to get started on this, i’m sure i can get it going.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational, NickG
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  59. Mr. Anon says:
    @Art Deco

    At no time in the last generation has more than 10% of the collegiate population been drawn from the ranks of actual rich kids, spoiled or not.

    He said lots of the complainers, not lots of the students, you vapid idiot. I suppose paying attention to what anyone who is not you actually writes is too much trouble for an apex-predator librarian such as yourself.

    • LOL: William Badwhite
  60. Mr. Anon says:
    @Art Deco

    Suicide rates for women have increased by 50% over 1999.

    https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide.shtml

    Your faux-superior “it has ever been thus” routine is trite, you supercillious clown. Nobody cares what you think. Go back to your reference desk.

    • Replies: @ZeroDay
    , @Art Deco
  61. @Andrew M

    We’ve had universities for centuries: they seem unlikely to be at fault here. Nor can we blame Obama’s executive order broadening Title IX, since this article is about New Zealand.

    But how long has the residential college dormitory been the norm rather than the exception? My understanding is that commuting to college from one’s home was much more common before the modern era of residential college dormitories. Dormitories were common in the Ivy League and large land grant Universities in the middle of nowhere, but not so much for the colleges and Universities that existed on the periphery of metropolitan areas.

    My guess is that residential dormitories became the norm even at colleges which previously catered to commuting students around the time that Uncle Sam stepped in with guaranteed loans and grants that included room and board – there was an easy revenue stream available to them if they just set up residential halls and a mess and packed in freshmen three to a 250 sq room like sardines. Often the fees for board are far above the market for the area in question – with some probable outliers like NYU or Fordham in very high rent areas – but even the latter receive tax-exempt status for the dormitories’ real estate and for the receipt of payment for board.

    It’s also the case that many colleges and Universities were single sex until rather recently – i.e., the Ivies didn’t admit women until the late 1970s (1977 in my recollection). So even with residential dormitories colleges didn’t become the same sort of social microcosm that they are now until rather recently.

    The takeaway for me is that the residential dormitory presents a lack of privacy with which many students (more of them single children now) were heretofore unfamiliar, at the same time that the pressures to socialize and sort by status are unavoidable. The coeducational, 18-21 year old residential dormitory system really is an odd arrangement in human history and it wouldn’t surprise me if it creates psychological stresses and pressures which are different from other more common human living arrangements.

  62. donut says:

    Staying in a dorm in college is a lot like living in a barracks in the service . I enjoyed both . Easy to make friends not a bad social life . I once went to a three week course at Damn Neck in Va. when I was in the service that part of the base wasn’t much used and I had more than 1/2 of a big open barracks to my self .
    Shipboard life in the MM was good you had your own stateroom . A crew of 20 on a ship 900 ft long more or less . We ate together and during the day out on deck in good weather just you and your watch partner . At night the only other people you saw was the mate and your watch partner . In port people hung out in the crew lounge . It suited me .
    The licensed officers could bring their wives on board for a trip , not a regular thing just once and a while , not many of them did . There was a second mate , a young kid on one ship who was a jerk , he brought his wife on a trip once . She was a cunt , older than him a with a kid from a previous marriage . She told a couple of the ABs that they had to do as she said because her husband was a mate . Some one stole all her panties from the drier .

  63. @JohnnyWalker123

    In most colleges, almost everyone moves out of the dorms after freshman year. Only a select few go beyond the first year. A small number may move into frat houses, but most just get off-campus apartments.

    In the U.S., the trend is towards student housing for the entirety of the undergraduate experience, and requiring on-campus living as part of the degree program. Not without coincidence, as the newly-built student housing expands, so does the requirement for on-campus residence for undergraduates.

    There’s just too much easy money to be had for the colleges and Universities not to operate sideline tax-exempt residential rental businesses.

    Perhaps another benefit is the colleges’ ability to more deftly negotiate the usual town v. gown conflicts by keeping their drunken young people out of the locals’ hair.

  64. Anonymous[351] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco

    excess use of tertiary schooling

    What is “tertiary schooling” and what makes its use excessive?

  65. L Woods says:
    @Bill P

    Women and chads are getting plenty. More than anyone could ever reasonably require.

  66. Anonymous[351] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    As with my argument for saying “separation”–demanding that those of us who are conservative be able to have and conserve our own nation, separate from the minoritarians, “nation of immigrants” globohomo garbage

    Why do you have to be separate? Why aren’t you able to live as you would live, among others who live differently?

    it would be goodness to be able to have some colleges/universities run traditionally with national survival/propagation as the missio

    Why do you need separate colleges/universities to do this?

  67. L Woods says:
    @Art Deco

    Sometimes I regret not staying in my childhood evangelical middle class bubble and marrying a quote unquote ‘good girl’ in my early twenties, as many of my old peers seem to have done. Then I remember the divorce tales that have seeped out over the years. Needless to say, the women still get to show up to church and pretend to be righteous. Nobody will call them out, let alone ostracize them as they so obviously deserve.

  68. @Art Deco

    Hey Art, did I claim that any particular percentage of the college population, in the early 1980s when I was there, was “drawn from the ranks of actual rich kids?”

    No, I did not.

    Do you know where I went to college and what types of kids came there and why?

    I don’t think you do.

    Whatever percentage of the American college population comes from wealthy families is irrelevant, because that cohort does not distribute itself evenly across all colleges.

    Where I was is a place very popular among out of state people with money. I was there and they were my friends. You were not there.

    So, f’n “bully for you,” you don’t have a g*d damned idea what you are talking about.

    Your snide comment is a non sequitur. Get back to me after you build your own shelter in a forest, live in it, and then work your own way through a university that isn’t some generic mediocrity that conforms to your simplistic idea of the college population.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  69. Mike1 says:

    New Zealand students have a good reason to be depressed. They can graduate top of their class, marry another go-getter and will almost certainly have no chance of buying a house unless their parents have money.
    NZ has gone from very little immigration to double the US immigrant percentage in about fifteen years.

    • Replies: @James N. Kennett
  70. Art Deco says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Your snide comment is a non sequitur.

    No, it’s a stiletto stuck into someone striking poses.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  71. Ibound1 says:
    @theo the kraut

    Being a “party school” is now a reason to choose a particular university. We actually encourage kids to go into enormous debt and one of the reasons why is in order to find the best place to party for 4 years – really high school grades 13-16. That is simply incredible. Colleges would have parents believe this is all about “growing up” – as if the 18 years at home were not enough. No, it is about avoiding growing up. But this is the system we have for the people who really don’t need to be at college at all.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    , @HallParvey
  72. Stick says:

    The problem of college is that it is all about you instead of all about subjects that have nothing to do with you unless you apply yourself. Narcissism is not healthy. Never has been. Ergo, more counselors and crying towels.

  73. DFH says:

    a “college” system of dormitories where you stay in the same dorm for four years. And each dorm has its own dining hall, with family-style meals at set tim

    You mean, the arrangement that Oxford and Cambridge have had figured out for hundreds of years

    • Replies: @Jay Ritchie
  74. In the Middle Ages, there were no dorms or fraternities. Students, average age 30, rented rooms.

    On the other hand, the University of Bologna was run by students. Yes, students hired and fired teachers, decided on the curriculum, etc. Now you might say this is a recipe for disaster. But you must realize that most students were older than their teachers, that, as there was no financial aid, they had to save up to go to college, and thus, they were highly motivated to hold teachers to a high standard, and to get all they could out of their education.

    The University of Paris was run by the teachers. This was also preferable to a college run by “administrators,” otherwise known as useless leeches.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  75. ZeroDay says:

    Also, the social media explanation does not make sense. I can understand extreme cases of bullying, or maybe it being harmful to younger girls. But anecdotally, in a post-Snapchat era, it is fairly benign. For lower income, minority kids, I do think social media is toxic, but for different reasons.

    Have only seen talks given by Haight, so I haven’t read the book. But my impression is that he wishes to sidestep bigger issues on idealogical grounds. What I have seen anecdotally: over-medicalization of common adolescent issues, feminization of curriculum (he calls it overemphasis on feelings, but let’s call it what it is), subtle shaming of guys and diverting resources away from their education.

    An under explored topic is the relaxation of PhysEd, where students can now replace extracurriculars or walking for strenuous exercise. Ton of evidence linking exercise with emotional well being, especially in boys.

    A quick way to get to the bottom of this is to slice the in increase in anxiety by sex and major. Willing to bet it is centered overwhelmingly in females majoring in humanities and social sciences. If true, it points to the culprit as being largely idealogical, which coincidentally aligns with rise of social media, but is not explained by it.

  76. @Art Deco

    You seem to be the one striking poses with stilettos.

    Since everything I have said is true, it is hard to see what your point is and why you feel it necessary to insult me.

    Not all of the rich kids complained, and not all of the complainers were rich, but all of the complainers were spoiled children. Compared to the things I had done before college, life in the dorms was easy. They just didn’t see it.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Mr. Anon
  77. ZeroDay says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Suicide rates for women have increased by 50% over 1999.

    Perhaps as a result of the population aging? Do you have that disaggregated by age?

  78. Rosie says:
    @stillCARealist

    Instead, the prevailing mood is Go Be Happy! If that means you break up a home and a soul so be it.

    For the life of me, I can’t understand this mentality. Anytime you get a divorce, you deny to your children, if any, their natural right to live with both of their biological parents.

    I think Dennis Prager’s critique of happiness is very much on point.

    https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Serious-Problem-Nature-Repair/dp/0060987359

  79. DFH says:
    @Tyrion 2

    normally moves out with friends to private rented houses for the following years.

    In fact most people stay in accommodation provided by their colleges for the subsequent years also

  80. Forbes says:

    Mental health outcomes are probably the result of multiple factors of the post-’60s chaos…

    Too many HS graduates go to college…
    –Based on the common refrain that all should go to college.
    –Which leads to a softening of rigor and standards so that most all appear to be college ready.
    –Grade inflation, grading on a curve, re-centering exam results, dumbing-down exams.

    And as HS has turned away from academic rigor, and towards personality socialization…
    –So has college picked up the remedial task for students not academically prepared.
    –And continued focus on socialization, rather than rigor, e.g. PC/SJW, safe spaces, gender/ID issues.

    Title IX, 60/40 female/male sex ratio, campus tribunals for day-after regret sex, etc. It’s all a bit unreal.

    College, having become a hiatus from maturity and expectations for maturity, leads to a four-year window of emotional, sexual, and psychological dysfunction in young adults that’s best avoided by a shock to the system due to experiencing reality, rather than being cossetted against that reality.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  81. One trend that must play a role in the “college crackup” is the extreme feminization of the campus culture. Women used to be 40% of college students. Now they are 60%.

    Someone should graph the ratio of females against a relevant index of student neuroticism and I would bet dollars to donuts there is a strong correlation. (And I would guess the same phenomenon holds true in New Zealand as well).

    Women are more sensitive, conformist and neurotic. The mere increase in their numbers would therefore trigger a greater need for counselling, “safe spaces,” etc. Moreover, once a group reaches a certain super-majority status, a tipping point occurs in the culture of an organization. (Which, in the case of colleges is aided and abetted by the faculty and administrators).

    This cultural tipping point seems to have happened with colleges some time ago. College used to aspire to be crucibles of debate and critical thinking, but now they function mostly as finishing schools for politically correct girls.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  82. @Buzz Mohawk

    Yeah, try going to college when the traitorous government has packed in thousands of Muslims and Hindoos. It sucks. I’m glad you had a fun experience but times have changed.

  83. AnonAnon says:

    How much of the emotional fragility of Gen Z/late millennials can be attributed to putting them in childcare as 3 month old infants, as soon as mandated maternal leave expires? I have to believe it’s a not insignificant piece of the puzzle.

    “In 1999, the National Household Education Survey, which asks all families about nonparental child care arrangements regardless of the employment status of the mother, reported that 61 percent of children under age 4 were in regularly scheduled child care, including 44 percent of infants under 1 year, 53 percent of 1-year-olds, and 57 percent of 2-year-olds. This is a dramatic change from the recent past.” ( Chapter 11, Growing Up in Childcare)

    Getting into college has become a lot more cut throat, too – the A students are taking a dozen or more AP/dual-enrollement classes (even B students are taking multiple APs) and often need a four year sport plus other extracurriculars, including a couple hundred hours of service hours minimum, so their teenage years don’t resemble ours very much. There is huge pressure on kids and many arrive at college already burned out.

    FWIW, my college required on-campus housing for two years and then people found off campus housing. My dorm had a dining hall in the basement. I made the error of not getting a weekend meal plan first semester so missed out on a lot of socializing over brunch so your dining hall theory might have some merit. I think most every college we toured for our son had a food court set up, instead of co-located dorm/dining hall, so there is a more variable population for meals. It also seems colleges are going to suite-style dorms, too – bedrooms with a couple of shared bathrooms, so you mix with a much smaller population your freshman year. Instead of the whole floor, you interact with your roommates. I know both my niece and my son, at separate colleges, struggled their freshman year to make friends, taking refuge in Netflix and gaming, respectively.

  84. @Barnard

    Nobody ever abided by those rules.

  85. I went to college at Rice U., which has a “college” system of dormitories where you stay in the same dorm for four years. And each dorm has its own dining hall, with family-style meals at set times.

    Well, Rice students are “versatile”, aren’t they?

    Owl Natural Habitat

    Owls are well known as being very versatile birds when it comes to their habitat. They are able to live in a variety of locations and some of those may surprise you.

    So what do they do at Temple?

    And how do they prevent future Cosbys?

  86. @Buzz Mohawk

    There’s nothing Deco about that décor.

    Here are some tips:

    https://freshome.com/2013/10/07/10-hot-trends-for-adding-art-deco-into-your-interiors/

    https://www.architecturaldigest.com/gallery/art-deco-rooms-slideshow

    https://www.willieclancyfestival.com/art-deco-decor-style/living-room-art-deco-decor/

    Now this is totally Flash Gordon. Ayn Rand would feel at home here:

    And for Deco crossdressing– not masculine/feminine but animal/mineral– you can’t top Chrysler Building architect Willam Van Alen:

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  87. @Reg Cæsar

    Somebody get poor Ayn an ashtray!

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  88. @Reg Cæsar

    Ayn is responsible for getting her own ashtray. No one should bring one to her unless she pays for it.

    • LOL: Rosie
  89. @NZopinion

    3. Due to nuclear testing in the Pacific, there is a hole in the Ozone layer above most of NZ.

    I know you Kiwis have the second-worst case of Hiroshima syndrome in the world (after Japan), but the ozone hole has nothing whatsoever to do with nuclear testing.  It’s actually due to aerosol cans, refrigerators and fire suppression systems (chlorine and bromine making their way into the stratosphere via halocarbons) and it has notably begun to recover recently as the rate of halogen fallout has exceeded additions for some years now.

  90. anon[270] • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t know the cause of anxious spoiled complaining millennials, but I know the cure: Karate class. Ain’t no whiners in karate class. Respect for the teacher is brutally enforced. As the sensei says:
    “Life is tough. Once you accept that life is tough it becomes less tough. It becomes joyful toughness instead of meaningless non-existence in life.”

  91. Anon[355] • Disclaimer says:

    Many years ago it was noted that as college tuitions began to rise, the student were becoming more docile. Parents weren’t willing to pay 50K for a kid who was going to party or vandalize so hard that he got thrown out. That would have been a serious financial loss for them. Kids taking out loans, foolish as they might be, still recognize that they need to finish that degree, or they’ve assumed a load of debt for nothing.

    The trend towards docile students means that these kids are more controlled, and more likely to have a mindset that does not tolerate cognitive dissonance. Frankly, they would have been better off spending the summer on a fishing boat in Alaska or something like that to help develop their independence. These kids beat themselves up and agonize when they commit Thoughtcrime.

    As someone who was raised in the healthy skepticism of the 1970s and 80s, a time period in which we looked down on authority, the young today are too conformist for their own mental good.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  92. Sailer went from humid Houston to dry California.

    Nostalgia for home might have merely been the desire to wear cotton clothes without them being soaked with sweat soon after you put them on.

    Maybe he went to Chicago figuring the wind would dry the clothes drenched with the sweat from humid Houston.

    Tenure must be terminated and all college and university administrators must be fired. The professors and administrators should have their pensions and other benefits taken from them.

    Regular college and university workers should be kept and their salaries and benefits increased.

    The university and college scam in the United States must be destroyed to save the nation.

  93. @Ibound1

    We actually encourage kids to go into enormous debt and one of the reasons why is in order to find the best place to party for 4 years

    A large part of this is the credentialism forced upon employers by Griggs.  If you need a credential to get a white-collar job, it doesn’t particularly matter what it is and you have no special talents or ambitions, spending your time enjoyably beats the alternative.

    What this really means is that Griggs and the entire notion of “disparate impact” is pernicious and should be cut out of our law, root and branch.

  94. peterAUS says:
    @TelfoedJohn

    Disclaimer: noticed this topic because had personal experience with suicides in my line of work.

    Agree with

    ..victims are put on a pedestal with a spotlight on them and praised for being brave etc. But being a victim means they have no control over their life, which makes them more of a victim. Eventually they’ve painted themselves into a psychological corner and break down, blaming everyone except themselves..

    but, there is much more to suicide than just that. Much more. Complicated and puzzling, essentially.

  95. @Mike1

    New Zealand students have a good reason to be depressed. They can graduate top of their class, marry another go-getter and will almost certainly have no chance of buying a house unless their parents have money.

    An influx of foreign capital didn’t help. Unless there are strong credit controls on mortgage lending, housing – and family formation – become too expensive for most people who pay their way.

    It is strange that in many countries the cost of housing is seen as a force of nature, rather than something that is under the control of politicians.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Mike1
  96. peterAUS says:
    @NZopinion

    Informative comment.

    Re

    1. NZ has (I believe) the highest youth suicide rate in the world prior to the start of university for young people. So I think these problems precede entrance to uni.

    any theory as to why?

    This is an interesting point:

    Very atheistic population that was also strongly religious until recently. The strength of belief is still there but the object of belief is gone. That belief can latch onto different things which likely don’t provide the type of psychological depth or support that Christianity did/does. University would obviously be a prime location where people would be exposed to these new ideas.

    But, this could be applied to other countries as well, especially in last, say, 20 years, and still, no so much of the same issue there.

  97. Art Deco says:
    @stillCARealist

    Each of the young men in my example has friends, and the example of what happened to them will affect their friends view of what you get when you invest in a woman. I’m not sure what is driving the disinclination to get married manifest since 2000 or so; that’s a speculation. All three of these men were blindsided. Any pressure applied would have had to have been applied by their in-laws to their wives. The excuse offered by the family of one of these women was ‘she’s bipolar’. No clue about the other two. What stunned me was when family members of two of these young men made excuses for the women involved. People tend to be very resistant to holding women accountable for anything.

    • Replies: @Bill P
  98. anon[351] • Disclaimer says:
    @theo the kraut

    Guy in the middle looks like Andrew Anglin.

  99. Anonymous[351] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist

    BYW, there is very little actual science in Social Science.

    Steve says he likes social science.

  100. @Redneck farmer

    If everybody in the country were in college at the same time the I.Q. of the student body would be equal to the general population average. About 95 for the U.S.

    If the brightest and best were in college alone, scores should go up. Of course, that group might lead us into another quagmire as a previous generation of that kind did. Remember McNamara’s whiz kids.

    • Disagree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  101. Rosie says:
    @James N. Kennett

    An influx of foreign capital didn’t help.

    This is the Crux of the issue. Whites have built the most desireable societies in the world. If our labor and housing markets are open and accessible to overclass Third Worlders, the White middle class will be destroyed. It’s really that simple.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  102. @Reg Cæsar

    So what do they do at Temple?

    This appears to be tongue-in-cheek but Temple University seems to be converting itself from a commuter-dominated undergraduate student body to a residential undergraduate student body in part of the trend I’ve described in this thread.

    Temple was traditionally the bargain cost option for tuition-sensitive Jews and kids from blue collar backgrounds in the Philadelphia area (the regional rail has a dedicated Temple University stop in North Philadelphia) that many of the lines run through on the way to or from Center City. Some kids would rent off-campus housing either in the North Philadelphia area around Temple (sketchy at best) or in a better, more happening area and then commute from there to Temple. Riding the regional rail was not too sketchy if you had a regular daytime class schedule and so all of the Temple students would move as a herd from the station to North Broad Street. Irregular night classes could be something of a problem in terms of student safety though.

    The Temple administration of late seems to have figured out that they can buy up bargain basement real estate in burned out North Philadelphia on which to build dormitories to increase revenues via student loan proceeds.

    In re: your Cosby question, there was recently in the news a student on student rape and murder in off-campus private student housing, and another of a Jewish fraternity attempted rape. In the former case, the perpetrator was an older hanger-on who didn’t seem to be on any direct path to graduation with a degree – the low tuition and open campus seem to attract these sorts of lifestyle students. (IIRC, the victim was a community college transfer, which is another common path there). That said, traditionally Temple University takes a rather scrupulous view of what constitutes its campus for mandatory crime reporting purposes (not unusual for an urban campus).

    Disclaimer: I did not attend Temple University except for an LL.M program that I got too busy to finish – however the classes were at night and I did pack a bit of steel with my books for class if you know what I’m saying.

  103. @Ibound1

    It’s also about restricting entry into the workforce. Reducing the time of, and need for employment by increasing the time spent studying, is a win in a country with a shrinking number of real jobs.
    Eventually, when a person can go from studenthood to retirement on the same day, optimum use of The University will have been achieved.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    , @Ibound1
  104. Art Deco says:
    @obwandiyag

    This was also preferable to a college run by “administrators,” otherwise known as useless leeches.

    The director of physical plant, the chief of purchasing, the comptroller, the treasurer, the CIO, and the registrar are useful enough. So are the people in charge of miscellaneous services (mailroom, bookstore, campus transportation, shipping and receiving). I doubt the athletic director is a troublesome influence most places (they are at schools overly invested in sports). The chief of fundraising is useful (though may be running something of a scam). The troublesome administrators are the the provost, the instructional deans, the dean of students, and the president to whom they report. The provost and the instructional deans are invariably faculty members (though some are hired-to-tenure from the outside). The president is usually a quondam professor as well, but not invariably. The dean of students and his minions commonly come from the ranks of the world’s MEd holders. For the most part, the faculty do own the situation.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  105. Art Deco says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Suicide rates go up and go down. Youth suicide rates were higher in 1994 than they are today. I suspect that if you compared the last 40-odd years with the early 20th century, you would see persistently lower youth rates during the earlier period.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  106. @Anon

    That sounds very much like my college experience. And my phone is a BlackBerry.

  107. @DFH

    “You mean, the arrangement that Oxford and Cambridge have had figured out for hundreds of years”

    Oxford and Cambridge also have very short terms (8 weeks x 3 I think?) so not quite the same as leaving home for real as an 18 year old.

    Continental Europeans seem far more likely to stay in their home areas and often live with their parents. I wonder if this is healthier than having increasingly immature 18 year olds mixing in a hot house environment with little ability to make sound judgements for themselves and others.

    In my Northern English university – at the time most of the students were middle class to well off – two of my three housemates became alchoholics by their early 20s. Both were decent smart guys from lovely families. I wonder with deep remorse how I didn’t realise that their drinking was problematic, and anything other than cool and progressive.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  108. Thea says:
    @Redneck farmer

    And more and more are young women who were designed to get married and have babies and keep the house instead of wasting those precious years. Society tells them one thing but their heart another.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  109. @Johnny Smoggins

    German Jews fought as patriotically as their Gentile neighbors in WWI. If there was an ethnocentric angle at all, it was to oppose Germany’s enemy Tsarist Russia for its antisemitism.

  110. @black sea

    My impression is that the Bridget Jones Generation that were young adults in 1990s Britain drinked a huge amount, but there has been some moderation since then in Britain.

  111. @Jeff Burton

    Right. Co-ed dorms seem like a worthy subject to study using the tools of social science, but the subject never seems to come up on campuses.

  112. @Buzz Mohawk

    But eating meals carried in from one, central kitchen at Rice? I feel for you, brother.

    I didn’t much mind (I don’t have much taste), but when I got to UCLA the next year and saw how much better the food court food could be, then I realized what people had been complaining about at Rice.

  113. Art Deco says:
    @HallParvey

    is a win in a country with a shrinking number of real jobs.

    What’s a ‘real’ job, and how would we know their number is declining?

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  114. @slumber_j

    Yeah, Harvard and Yale have the “house” or “college” system, so I’m always surprised that it isn’t more copied across the country.

    Rice started its system in the 1950s. William Marsh Rice’s will had banned fraternities, so students formed their own crypto-fraternity “literary societies,” which didn’t have any regulation from national bodies. Two pledges died in a hazing accident in the 1950s. So Rice decided to build a system that offered some of community aspects of fraternities, but without the selectivity. It’s like getting conscripted at random into a fraternity.

    I think they’ve gotten rid of all male colleges at Rice. Sid Rich, which had the only high rise on campus and thus possessed the military high ground, tended to rain water balloons down on lower colleges. The lower colleges had to shoot back with fireworks.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  115. @Tiny Duck

    well maybe there’s that but white students can legally be passed over or actually discriminated against just because of their skin tone. Something that is illegal if done to any other student.

    p.s. you forget to mention penis, what’s wrong with you?

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  116. Bill P says:
    @dr kill

    It’s so obvious to me that this is the real problem with social media, but a lot of people don’t get it. Did they forget what being young was like or what?

    No screen can replace physical intimacy.

    There are also the Obama era crazy sex rules, which come from the lesbian lobby. Then there’s obesity, the skewed sex ratio in colleges, and Asian girls who siphon off a lot of white guys’ sexual energy.

    It’s no wonder lots of women are going crazy in college.

    Commenters here are overanalyzing the issue, as usual. Nature, God – whatever you want to call it – has designed us as we are for a reason. One thing young women have been designed for, and quite well if I do say so myself, is sex. If they are denied the opportunity to fulfill their natural role it’s going to cause all sorts of problems.

    And no, I don’t mean wanton, promiscuous sex, but rather good old fashioned knock-her-up because you can’t get enough of her sex.

    If most girls that age were properly serviced on a regular basis I can guarantee that this neurotic trend would disappear tomorrow. Because I am not a misogynist, I hope this comes to pass. We’d all be happier if young women got the sex they need.

    As for the lesbos, well, they’re not really that important in the grand scheme, are they? Maybe we should reevaluate their place in university administration, because they aren’t actually necessary, they probably do more harm than good, and most women don’t even like them.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  117. @Ibound1

    Changes in demand for counseling are a matter of fashion more than mental health. My wife died last month, and countless people have asked if our children are receiving counseling. Apparently, feeling sad about sad events is now a medical condition to be treated by certified professionals.

  118. Bill P says:
    @Art Deco

    That happened to me. My own mother made excuses for my adulterous ex. It sounds pretty awful, but I came out of that suspecting that she had done something similar.

    It’s a shame, because I always thought she was better than the skank-ho single mommies of so many of my childhood friends from back in the 80s.

    The worst part as a guy was thinking of all the opportunities I passed up in order to be a faithful husband. The beautiful women – better-looking than my wife – that I turned down in order to be a “good man.”

    In retrospect, I’m actually glad I acted honorably, but my respect for women as equals was totally shattered. And that’s a good thing. What foolishness ever possessed me to think of women in that way? The only thing I can think of that justifies it is that my father was a morally deranged man, and I had no good standard by which to measure men aside from Jesus Christ, who is divine after all.

    There is really no excuse for a wanton woman, except for the desire that burns in her loins. Let’s just be honest about that and call it as it is. In that case a man who cheats is as blameless as the “unhappy” young wife, and let us treat them equally.

    Then maybe there will be as much fear on the part of the woman as the man, and divorce will be less common as there is no advantage either way.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  119. @HallParvey

    Universities used to be only the best and brightest, and that was the time when Western Civ made huge strides.  Now that they’re (((tribal))) indoctrination centers in personal and civilizational dysfunction, they’re anything but.

    You can’t compare that to placing a bunch of bright but green people in control of matters where they have no experience.

  120. J.Ross says: • Website

    A caller to Dennis Prager today described high school co-ed wrestling at his kid’s public school. Two boys lost. One, because Democrats want to do everything they can to generate school shooters for longer-term Constitutional rewriting goals. The second was actually a competant wrestler, but, faced with a girl, could not figure out a non-criminal wrestling move.
    We need massive brutal educational reform.

    • Replies: @anon
  121. @dr kill

    May I add the wisdom of a friend with a PhD from Sidewalk University who observed; You know you did good when you wake up and last night’s girl is wearing nothing but your shirt, standing at the stove, and asking how you like your eggs. So true.

    Until she turns to you, smiles, and says “I like my eggs fertilized” right before breaking out into uproarious laughter.

  122. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Andrew M

    We’ve had universities for centuries: they seem unlikely to be at fault here.

    The university as it existed in the past bears little resemblance to what we call universities today. There was a time when a university was essentially a religious institution.

    There was even a time when universities were not in the business of destroying civilisation.

  123. anon[221] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    In my dorm, the “master” (a term they likely will dump shortly as triggering)

    reminds me of Dutch Masters cigars, which seem to have disappeared from the scene

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  124. @Bitfu

    and of a piece with (((Hollywood)))’s

    recent assertion that

    “4 sassy black women with slide-rules”

    enabled the pre-Moon landing US space program.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  125. anon[221] • Disclaimer says:
    @NZopinion

    3. Due to nuclear testing in the Pacific, there is a hole in the Ozone layer above most of NZ.

    this sounds like a nice lie cooked up by the MSM

    do they offer any proof when they trot out this bs?

    • Replies: @NZopinion
  126. anon[221] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross

    The second was actually a competant wrestler, but, faced with a girl, could not figure out a non-criminal wrestling move.

    just do what Trump does – grab her by the……

  127. Mr. Anon says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Since everything I have said is true, it is hard to see what your point is and why you feel it necessary to insult me.

    Art Deco feels it necessary to insult everyone, in a smug, offhand way. He seems to be an insignificant nobody with a big chip on his shoulder on account of that.

    • Replies: @duncsbaby
  128. Mr. Anon says:
    @Art Deco

    Suicide rates go up and go down.

    And maybe they go up and down for a reason. Maybe it’s wroth trying to tease out what that reason might be.

    Does anybody give a single solitary f**k what you think about anything? If so, I haven’t seen any evidence of it. You just come across as a yammering insignificant nobody.

  129. Mr. Anon says:
    @Art Deco

    What’s a ‘real’ job,………..?

    For starters, not whatever you do for a living.

  130. Corvinus says:

    “I’m a big fan of social science but over the decades I’ve seen very little social science done by universities on close-at-hand topics such as what kind of living arrangements are most conducive to the flourishing of college students.”

    Type in “studies on living arrangements at college campuses” (no quotes) on Google. A gaggle of studies on this very topic are at your fingertips.

  131. Anonymous[351] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jay Ritchie

    I wonder with deep remorse how I didn’t realise that their drinking was problematic, and anything other than cool and progressive.

    What was progressive about it?

  132. Anonymous[351] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thea

    And more and more are young women who were designed to get married and have babies and keep the house instead of wasting those precious years. Society tells them one thing but their heart another.

    On what basis do you make your claim that young women were designed to get married and keep house and that time in higher education or building a career is “wasted”?

  133. Anonymous[351] • Disclaimer says:
    @James N. Kennett

    German Jews fought as patriotically as their Gentile neighbors in WWI. If there was an ethnocentric angle at all, it was to oppose Germany’s enemy Tsarist Russia for its antisemitism.

    Didn’t that shift partway through the war?

    In any case, there were a lot of Jews involved in the Bolshevik unrest throughout Europe.

  134. Anonymous[351] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Rice started its system in the 1950s. William Marsh Rice’s will had banned fraternities

    Why did he ban fraternities?

  135. @ZeroDay

    That’s what I was thinking. How many of these kids are really depressed versus how many have been acculturated to talk in terms of feeling bad about themselves as a signifier of deep feelings?

    Tiny Dic* has a point, though just not about the white kids. There’s a ton of Asians on campus these days and they tend to have depression and self-esteem problems, even more than white kids. That no doubt contributes. The groups that perform better academically tend to have lower self-esteem, while groups that perform worse tend to have higher self-esteem, like blacks.

  136. Anonymous[351] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill P

    and Asian girls who siphon off a lot of white guys’ sexual energy.

    What is this supposed to mean? Do White men prefer Asian women?

  137. Anonymous[351] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill P

    It sounds pretty awful, but I came out of that suspecting that she had done something similar.

    Did you ever consider asking your mother about that?

    The worst part as a guy was thinking of all the opportunities I passed up in order to be a faithful husband. The beautiful women – better-looking than my wife – that I turned down in order to be a “good man.”

    Other women were making passes at you and they knew you were married?

  138. @Tyrion 2

    I guess, as Steve says, I notice patterns.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  139. @James N. Kennett

    Maybe a few did, but the vast majority sided with their Bolshevik cousins to the east, in spite of the fact that Germany made every effort to treat Jews as equals.

    Hitler’s “anti-Semitism” didn’t arise in a vacuum.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  140. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    reminds me of Dutch Masters cigars, which seem to have disappeared from the scene

    They still sell these foul smoking things. Yecch.
    I’d rather smoke DeNobili’s.

  141. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Really how many people, male or female, have a career that matters as much as raising a good, productive family?

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
  142. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Bill P

    Maybe the problem is that colleges are mostly female and young people are not having sex as much as they used to.

    If you have a large body of young women who are not getting any on a regular basis it’s going to be a troubled environment.

    Maybe the problem is that sending young women away to college is really really bad for them. They’re set adrift from family and community in a sea of craziness and degeneracy.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  143. I really do wonder if there’s been any social science done on the College system — interesting question! Hanszen ’84, myself.

    I’m going to ask this question on a Facebook group page. You know how there are all these pages like “A Million Vols Can’t Be Wrong” and “Nick Saban’s Million Man Squad”?* There’s a Rice affinity page called “Let’s be honest: we can’t get a million fans for Rice University.” I’ll post it there.

    *I made those up. Praise Jesus, my parents didn’t let me apply to SEC schools.

  144. Thea says:
    @Anonymous

    The Bible

    And Actually going to college back when I was a young woman, studying STEM. Our society has been sold an empty bag of goods.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  145. Rising student debt and increasing graduate unemployment probably don’t help, but I’d suspect the main problem is increasing mental health awareness clashing with poorly targeted mental health treatment. More and more students are alerted to the symptoms of “depression,” through the media and campus visits by NGOs, and then go and seek treatment. They are then given antidepressants by GPs and counselling in which they talk about their life problems. They are also advised to undertake common sense measures like more exercise and eating less junk food.

    If they have true bi-chemical depression they will find the counselling patronising and the lifestyle suggestions totally inadequate. If they have common or garden anxiety-driven depression they will probably find the antidepressants useless and the counselling to be of short-term benefit only. In turn, this unsuccessful treatment will often make them feel worse than before they sought treatment.

    Suggested treatments for anxiety-driven depression:

    short course of Valium followed by tremor release exercises, reading self-help books on CBT and using a diary, regular exercise boosted by some form of rhythmical activity like rave dancing or sitting on a swing or rocking chair (rave dancing helped gen X through the early 90s recession).

    Note how these kinds of treatments don’t cost a lot of money, and don’t provide much income for drug companies with lucrative patents, clueless counsellors, or progressive NGOs with a bad case of mission creep.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  146. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    On what basis do you make your claim that young women were designed to get married and keep house and that time in higher education or building a career is “wasted”?

    I guess that claim could be based on an understanding of biological reality along with several thousand years of human history.

    Female careers are entirely unnecessary. Society has absolutely no need for such things. A woman who devotes herself to a career has wasted her life.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  147. dfordoom says: • Website
    @unpc downunder

    If they have common or garden anxiety-driven depression they will probably find the antidepressants useless and the counselling to be of short-term benefit only.

    In fact there’s a good chances the antidepressants will prove to be harmful.

    It’s possible that the most effective treatment for depression is no treatment at all. People eventually get sick of wallowing in self-pity if they don’t get rewarded for it.

  148. Anonymous[351] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thea

    What makes you believe that studying STEM was wasted time?

    • Replies: @jim jones
    , @Thea
  149. Anonymous[153] • Disclaimer says:
    @dfordoom

    Female careers are entirely unnecessary. Society has absolutely no need for such things.

    Could you please elaborate on this? What argument leads to those conclusions?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  150. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Johnny Smoggins

    Classic loon. You weren’t noticing a pattern. You were obsessively projecting “a pattern” onto an entirely different subject.

  151. jim jones says:
    @Anonymous

    Women will never understand technology:

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  152. Anon[355] • Disclaimer says:

    If I had 200k of student debt, I’d be depressed too. That would scare the heck out of me and cause a lot or worrying and psychological stress. Maybe the main problem on campus is debt-stress.

  153. NZopinion says:
    @anon

    Who cares, my point was about the hole in the ozone not how it got there.

  154. duncsbaby says:
    @Mr. Anon

    I’m slightly miffed that all he’s called me is a knuckle head. I guess I haven’t felt the full force of his razor-sharp stiletto yet.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  155. @Anonymous

    On what basis do you make your claim that young women were designed to get married and keep house and that time in higher education or building a career is “wasted”?

    Never mind “designed” – the problem is that the equalist idea of treating men and women as fungible has caused the birth rate in many countries to plummet far below replacement level. Equalism is therefore not self-sustaining. It can try to avoid extinction by converting people who do not yet share its values, but that strategy didn’t work out well for the Shakers.

    It is one of the paradoxes of the human condition that liberty and equality for women lead to a demographic collapse, and replacement with a different people whose values are much less female-friendly. In Western Europe this transition is happening right now, but because it is slow (spread over decades), most people can’t (or don’t want to) see it.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  156. We can’t assume that college is the same as when we attended. The sex ratio is closer to 50:50, leading to greater social pressure to have a girlfriend/boyfriend (e.g. “bring a friend”). Some reporters claim that dating is less common than casual hookups.

    Social media and smartphone cameras make everything worse. Imagine if just one of the faux pas of your college years was shared with the entire university, and the recording was then stored in perpetuity for future employers and romantic partners to see.

    On top of that is the anomie of living part of one’s life through a screen.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  157. mm45 says: • Website

    At my old school (in a tourist town), they built several new dorms in the 00s because the off campus housing either disappeared due to gentrification (no more basement apartments) or became way too expensive. Several houses that used to rent out to students are now Airbnbs that charge as much for 2 nights as we paid for a month’s rent in the 90s.

  158. Thea says:
    @Anonymous

    Well not a total waste. I met my husband there and highly recommend it as a means to acquiring an Mrs degree.

    Really, I felt like a fraud the whole time. Even if I created a working project it was no were near the caliber of what smart men could create in less time. So yes I was a waste and superfluous. There may be a few women, very few, at that level. Good luck finding them and convincing them to dedicate their lives to tech.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  159. Ibound1 says:
    @HallParvey

    Doesn’t this country need a million people who majored in film studies?

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  160. Mike1 says:
    @James N. Kennett

    One of the funnier things when reading comments in NZ or Australia is people complaining that changing rules around lending is “anti-capitalism”. People really do see current arrangements as a force of nature.

  161. Has anyone thought that the use of smartphones and the students’ constant exposure to RF radiation might have something to do with the increase in depression and mental illness? We know that a person’s brain is still developing until the age of 25. A lot of research points to teenage binge drinking as being able to damage the developing brain and perhaps RF radiation just makes it worse. We now have 4G and in the next few years, we are going to see the emergence of 5G which will increase RF exposure by 100 fold! Our RF exposure is now concentrated in the low end of the microwave band .8 to 5 GHz but 5G will have RF emissions all the way up to nearly 100 GHz! We have no idea what all these frequencies affect on the brain are as testing is in its infancy. Governments are happily approving 5G everywhere because of the powerful lobbies the telecommunications companies have.

  162. @Anonymous

    Whatever mom does and whatever dad does should be thought of as a unified whole. Work, time, health, the budget, the house, the kids, saving, investing, spending, vacations, projects, it’s all a joint enterprise that both are responsible and accountable for.

    Dad makes 100k a year and mom makes nothing? No. They make the 100k together. Mom raises the kids while Dad’s at the office? No. They raise them together. The parents are just engaging in different parts of the same job.

    Traditional families figure this out pretty quickly and don’t have to tear themselves apart in competition and conflict. Everybody is on the same team and working towards the same goal.

    So, Anonymous, don’t denigrate careers or good families because they’re just parts the same whole.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  163. Anonymous[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thea

    Thank you.

    What subject did you major in?

  164. @Rosie

    Agree. At root is your nation for your kids? or for foreigners?

    There is no other question.

  165. Anonymous[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Another great feature was all the college girls, right down the hall for four years…

    Did you date many of them?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  166. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    Female careers are entirely unnecessary. Society has absolutely no need for such things.

    Could you please elaborate on this? What argument leads to those conclusions?

    Female “careers” fall into two broad categories. The first comprises women doing jobs that a man could do much better, and taking employment away from a man (who actually needs a job so he can support family). So such careers are not merely unnecessary but actually harmful to society.

    The second category comprises women doing jobs that don’t need to be done at all. Human resources, most jobs in the bureaucracy, practically all jobs in academia and the media, counselling, etc. These are make-believe jobs that women do as a hobby, and which ensure that they live lonely unfulfilled lives instead of getting married.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  167. @Anonymous

    Yes. Our building housed over 400 people, half of them women. Dating in college was great. It must suck now with all the anti-masculine bullshit.

  168. Art Deco says:
    @dfordoom

    Women account for about 47% of the labor force (v. 33% in 1957). No clue why you fancy employers have loaded up on 74 million women to do work that doesn’t need to be done and work that some man could do better (there are a grand total of about 8.5 million men between the ages of 25 and 55 not currently working, which is not much of a start toward replacing 74 million women workers, unless its your contention that 88% of the working women in this country have been hired by employers to spin their wheels because reasons.. The useless women presumably include those in healthcare occupations (10 million), food service (4.4 million), buildings and grounds (2.5 million), sales (7.8 million), production work (2.5 million), and transportation and shipping (1.9 million)).

  169. Mr. Anon says:
    @duncsbaby

    I’m slightly miffed that all he’s called me is a knuckle head. I guess I haven’t felt the full force of his razor-sharp stiletto yet.

    Perhaps we should call him “Art the Knife”. Do librarians use knives? Letter Opener maybe.

  170. @Steve Sailer

    Of course, his father’s recent death and his mother’s hasty remarriage to his uncle had nothing to do with it.

    If only Wittenberg had campus counseling services . . .

  171. @Johnny Smoggins

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judenzählung

    Judenzählung (German for “Jewish census”) was a measure instituted by the German Oberste Heeresleitung (OHL) in October 1916, during the upheaval of World War I. Designed to confirm accusations of the lack of patriotism among German Jews, the census disproved the charges, but its results were not made public.

    There’s a problem with Jews bing overrepresented among leftie intellectuals but that wasn’t the case here.

  172. @Art Deco

    Typical sophomoric academic who doesn’t know what I am talking about because he has no experience of the outside world, or even of outside reading.

    All those administrators are useless time-serving nonentities who get paid more than teachers for doing nothing. And the athletic director is worst of all. In the middle ages, students got together their own soccer games in the streets of Bologna. Not freaking “Athletic Directors”&%($)@#* Fie on them and you, you time-serving, can’t read, doesn’t know anything nonentity.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  173. Art Deco says:
    @obwandiyag

    All those administrators are useless time-serving nonentities who get paid more than teachers for doing nothing.

    Any corporation has a plant manager, a comptroller, a treasurer, a purchasing agent &c. If you fancy those officers in higher education are ‘doing nothing’, you’d have to apply that judgment to any public agency or business corporation who employs such people. But then you’d have to ask why those that hire them don’t take advice from you and get rid of them.

  174. False analogy. You wouldn’t understand what that is because you an administrator with his panties bunched. You are what is wrong with the world. Not one little tiny iota of anything will ever be allowed to be changed because cheese-paring beef-brained imbeciles like you are standing in the way.

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  175. @obwandiyag

    Ol’ Windy Bag, you are beyond tiresome.

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