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The Atlantic: "Will the Alt-Right Peddle a New Kind of Racist Genetics?" by Sarah Zhang
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From The Atlantic:

Will the Alt-Right Peddle a New Kind of Racist Genetics?

The genomic revolution has led to easy sequencing and cheap “ancestry” tests. White nationalists are paying attention.

SARAH ZHANG 7:30 AM ET SCIENCE

Why the quotes around “ancestry?”

Jedidiah Carlson was googling a genetics research paper when he stumbled upon the white nationalist forum Stormfront. Carlson is a graduate student at the University of Michigan, and he is—to be clear—absolutely not a white nationalist. But one link led to another and he ended up reading page after page of Stormfront discussions on the reliability of 23andMe ancestry results and whether Neanderthal interbreeding is the reason for the genetic superiority of whites. Obsession with racial purity is easily channeled, apparently, into an obsession with genetics.

Stormfront has been around since the ’90s, which means it’s been around for the entirety of the genomic revolution. The major milestones in human genetics—sequencing of the first human genome, genetic confirmation that humans came out of Africa, the first mail-in DNA ancestry tests—they’re all there, refracted through the lens of white nationalism. Sure, the commentators sometimes disagreed with scientific findings or mischaracterized them, but they could also be serious about understanding genetics. “The threads would turn into an informal tutoring session and journal club,” observes Carlson. “Some of the posters have a really profound understanding of everyday concepts in population genetics.”

Carlson had stumbled upon Stormfront months ago. As Donald Trump’s election went from unlikely hypothetical to reality, he began tweeting out the disturbing discussions he found—as a call to action for fellow geneticists. “In light of the current political climate,” he says, “I think there’s a much more present danger for our scientific work to become weaponized to enact these ethno-nationalist policies.” …

Modern geneticists now take pains to distance their work from the racist assumptions of eugenics. Yet since the dawn of the genomic revolution, sociologists and historians have warned that even seemingly benign genetics research can reinforce a belief that different races are essentially different—an argument made most famously by Troy Duster in his book Backdoor to Eugenics. If a genetic test can identify you as 78 percent Norwegian, 12 percent Scottish, and 10 percent Italian, then it’s easy to assume there is such thing as white DNA. If scientists find that a new drug works works better in African Americans because of a certain mutation common among them, then it’s easy to believe that races are genetically meaningful categories.

The problem is not with the science per se, but with the set of an underlying assumptions about race that we always imprint on the latest science. True, genetics has led to real breakthroughs in medicine, but it is also the latest in a centuries-long effort to understand biological differences. “In a sense, genetics is a modern version of what early scientists were doing in terms of their studies of skulls or blood type,” says Ann Morning, a sociologist at New York University. “We have a long history of turning to whatever we think is the most authoritative sense of knowledge and expecting to find race proved or demonstrated there.” And like its predecessors, genetics is vulnerable to misuse by those with racist agendas.

* * *

In the genomic age, it is now easy to compare the DNA of people from around the world. And it has indeed revealed that our racial categories are fuzzy proxies for genetic difference—an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.

This is one of the most popular chestnuts of the 21st Century, but I’ve never seen anybody point to an actual example or even explain how this is supposed to work in theory. Draw me a hypothetical family tree in which an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.

And to put it in perspective, all of the genetic diversity in humans comprises just 0.1 percent of the human genome.

Obviously, there’s a fair amount of genetic diversity in humans, so 0.1% must be pretty important.

This has inspired the line that race isn’t real—it’s a pure social construction and biologically meaningless. “Yet the lay person will ridicule that position as nonsense,” write geneticists Sarah Tishkoff and Kenneth Kidd in the journal Nature Genetics, “because people from different parts of the world look different, whereas people from the same part of the world tend to look similar.”

The trouble with the way we talk about race is that our biological differences are by degree rather by category. The borders of a country or continent are not magical lines that demarcate one genetically distinct population from another. “There are no firm and clear boundaries if you sample every grid on Earth,” Tishkoff told me. But because we lack a common vocabulary to talk about these differences between people by degree, we draw boundaries with our words and categorize them: Korean, Mongol, Asian.

Actually, as of 1491 there were some pretty firm and clear boundaries, such as giant oceans. For example, the Atlantic Ocean is only 1600 miles wide between South America and Africa, but as far as we know to this day, nobody ever crossed from Africa to South America or vice-versa before 1492. Also giant deserts (e.g., the Sahara) and giant mountain ranges (e.g., the Himalayas) tended to suffice pretty well.

Those boundaries will depend who is drawing them and where and when. What race, for example, are Mexicans?

La Raza.

In the 1930 U.S. census, Mexicans were their own racial category. In 1940, a court ruled that Mexicans were not eligible for citizenship because they were not white (under a law at the time), so President Roosevelt decided to count Mexicans as white in that year’s census order to shore up Mexican relations. In 2000, the census began distinguishing between race and ethnicity, allowing respondents to choose among several races and answer yes or no on Hispanic or Latino ethnicity.

ORDER IT NOW

Race, the way the U.S. government has thought about it for the last half century is about who your genetic ancestors were, while ethnicity is about markers that are usually passed down within biological families, but don’t have to be (e.g., language, names, cuisine, etc.).

Even though geneticists know how messy these racial categories are, the categories are still deeply rooted in biomedical research. The U.S. National Institute of Health, the country’s largest funder of biomedical research, requires researchers to collect data on the race and ethnicity of clinical research participants. So when scientists go to analyze their data, one of the things they can always do is look for differences between the races. The very act of collecting data defines the questions scientists do ask. “There’s this idea there that data collection is somehow a neutral activity,” says Sandra Soo-Jin Lee, a medical anthropologist and bioethicist at Stanford. “We should disabuse ourselves of it.”

Some conservatives, such as Ward Connerly, have tried to get government racial data collection outlawed, but have not had much success.

Implicit in the requirement to collect race data is a belief that race must be biologically meaningful in health. And this ends up producing research that reinforces this belief. The emphasis on race, says Duster who is now at Berkeley, “is so deeply in the structure of genetic medicine now, you cannot disentangle.” A study might find, for example, African Americans have higher rates of diabetes, prompting headlines about racial disparities and even more research into the genetics of African Americans with diabetes. But the focus on genes in African Americans elides the fact that such differences might predominantly come from a disproportionate number of them living in poverty.

You know, there are statistical techniques for disentangling that. You do know that?

Genetics has allowed scientists to start probing exactly how much innate genetic differences between races do matter in health, but this has unintended consequences, too. Jo Phelan, a sociologist recently retired from Columbia, has devised studies seeing how simply reading a news article about racial differences in genetic risk for heart attacks reinforces the belief that whites and African Americans are essentially different. The problem is that these differences are statistical—a mutation may be more prevalent in African Americans but that doesn’t mean every African American has it. There is no gene or set of genes that consistently codes for black, white, or any other race.

“There’s nothing wrong with looking at genetics differences and health outcomes, but why does there have to be so much emphasis on race?” says Phelan. “Why not other physical distinctions?”

Well, your race (i.e., your ancestry, i.e., your family tree) is where your genes come from.

Now the falling cost of technology has made the results of DNA sequencing available to anyone willing to shell out a couple hundred bucks to companies like 23andMe and AncestryDNA. Phelan has done similar studies on how such mail-in DNA tests reinforce a belief in racial differences. In a survey of over 500 participants, she found that reading about DNA ancestry tests increased one’s belief in essential differences between racial groups. And one group intensely interested in getting DNA ancestry tests? White nationalists, which Elspeth Reeve chronicled in an excellent piece in Vice earlier this year.

DNA ancestry tests can be flawed in a number of ways, and one of the flaws is how much they actually reflect the past. The percentages they report—like 62 percent Scandinavian, 13 percent British and Irish, 5 percent Finnish, and so on—are based on a statistical analysis of people currently living in those areas. For example, says Morning, “They may say you are descended from the Igbo people of Nigeria based on the database of people collected living in Nigeria today and from your DNA today. But we don’t know if those people were there in that place then, or when they got there. Were they moved around by the British? Who was where at what time?”

Ho-hum.

Yet this temporal disjunction is papered over, almost deliberately, in the interpretation of ancestry DNA tests. After all, they promise to tell us where our ancestors lived in their time.

No, the tests promise to tell you who your ancestors were and usually use geography as a shorthand to describe. But they don’t have to, and one extremely famous ancestral group has not been defined by geography for the last 2000 years. For example, DNA tests are pretty accurate at identifying Ashkenazi Jews. Whether some of your ancestors lived in the Rhineland or in Galicia or in South Africa or in Buenos Aires is generally of less concern to Jews than that, wherever their ancestors happened to be, they were Jewish.

DNA ancestry tests go back to a specific historic moment—a time when people were easier to categorize, a time before immigration but after migration. Go back too far, of course, and everyone is African. Go back not far enough and populations are already too scrambled by immigration and colonization. It only makes sense to talk about ancestry tests that spit out country of origin by percentage if you privilege a specific slice of time about 500 years ago.

I.e., before 1492. You know, there are reasons why 1492 is famous.

White nationalists like those on Stormfront, which claims to support a “homeland for all peoples” as long as people go back to their “original” homelands, explicitly appeal to a return to that past.

“White supremacists are kind of the tip of the iceberg when it comes to beliefs about race,” says Morning. Their rhetoric is extreme, of course, but the idea that race represents real biological differences is pervasive. Genetics are just the latest frontier.

SARAH ZHANG is a staff writer at The Atlantic.

If The Atlantic wants to disempower Stormfront, The Atlantic should stop promoting self-evidently wrong mainstream media anti-science dogmas such as Race Does Not Exist and “an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.”

P.S., here’s my 2007 Race FAQ from VDARE.

 
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  1. “all of the genetic diversity in humans comprises just 0.1 percent of the human genome”: and there was me, thinking it was about 0.3%.

    Anyway, the 0.1 %/0.3% is obviously so small that it matters not a whit. The difference, for instance between a man and a woman – of no significance. Between people who can thrive at high altitude and those who can’t – of no importance. Et bloody cetera. Tedious lies endlessly repeated.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Sarah is wrong.

    By the logic Sarah uses, I guess we shouldn't consider there to be much difference either between a human and a chimpanzee, since the difference there is only ~1.2% or so.

    1% of the genome is significant. 0.1% is significant.

    If you want to see just how much, take a look at any one of a wide number of hereditary diseases. These often are the result of only a single gene mutated. In fact, many are the result of a single nucleotide changed (out of 3 billion or so in the human genome). That's how much of an impact 0.000000033% difference in the genome can have.
    , @anonguy

    “all of the genetic diversity in humans comprises just 0.1 percent of the human genome”
     
    Willful stupidity, a court-matialable offense, wrt to nonlinearity on display here.
    , @ben tillman

    “all of the genetic diversity in humans comprises just 0.1 percent of the human genome”: and there was me, thinking it was about 0.3%.
     
    And then again we hear that parents and their children share just 50% of their genes, and people get angry when you tell them that is bullshit. In addition to the deliberate obscurantism, there's a lot -- an enormous lot - of stupid inarticulateness on the part of geneticists.
    , @CyadorReclusor
    I think the nonsensical "race is an unreal social convention" idea started after the slander campaign against "The Bell Curve" many years ago started to die down.

    Academic leftists knew that psychometric research was solid in the book, so came up with that so as to escape the "inconvenient truth" of the racial disparity in all reputable studies of large groups when IQ is the issue being studied.

    Can anyone confirm or correct this? A Ref or two would be appreciated.

    Mr. Unz - great site.

    , @kilbourne
    If I remember correctly, the difference between homo sapiens and homo neanderthalensis is only 0.2%, about double that between any two of us today. I wonder what the avg. diff. is between Great Danes and chihuahuas?
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  2. If The Atlantic wants to disempower Stormfront

    Does Steve Sailer?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonym
    Truth has said that iSteve is the SWPL Stormfront.

    BTW on a completely different subject, I hack my own granola with organic chia seeds, wheatgerm and quinoa flakes. It increases protein content and, er, superfoodiness. I just thought I'd throw that out there.
    , @Desiderius
    Of course.

    It's just as obvious that The Atlantic and fellow travelers do not.

    Baptists and Bootleggers.
    , @Mr. Anon
    "Does Steve Sailer?"

    I wasn't aware that was his job, or even his responsibility.
    , @Olorin
    Andrew Anglin's master trolling has "power"?

    Gee, what one misses being away for a couple weeks.... Somebody clue me in!

    Did he get that post as head of the Fed? The Ford Foundation? Or was it president of Sarah Zhang's alma mater, Harvard, where she:

    Sarah Zhang is a former senior online fellow at Mother Jones. Before working at MoJo, she wrote for Discover Magazine and did research on fruit flies in Israel.
     
    , @AndrewR
    Stormfront is full of idiots but my philosophy is not to punch right, and I imagine that is Sailer's philosophy.

    When one's political beliefs are three standard deviations to the right of the mean, only a fool would attack someone to the right.

    Do leftists ever criticize the extreme left?

    In 2045 when the culture wars have been won by race-realists, then Steve will likely be on the political left when it comes to race. You can ask him then what he's doing to fight the powerless stormtards.

    , @Daniel Chieh
    I remember Stormfront being the website that angrily raged against the Bell Curve because it indicated that Asians did better on some IQ metrics than whites.

    I don't believe that they are racial realists, on the realist front. There are some intelligent people there, but they get shouted down a lot by the hordes.
  3. I wonder if she’s actually that stupid to spout such ignorant garbage or if she’s just lying on purpose for ideological reasons. The “race isn’t real” position is so transcendently dumb that it’s amazing to think that she might really mean it. Who would tell such outrageous lies intentionally?

    I just can’t wrap my head around it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    SJW--Genetics is racist, because it notices the differences between different groups of people, known as races. Yes, it is, because those differences are rather large and significant. Any other stupid questions?
    , @Expletive Deleted
    Ugly, (?part-?) Chinese bird desperately seeking excuses as to why she looks like a horse, and not a Han lady.
    I propose "not entirely Chinese" as the reason, noticing the SJW-lite denial of racial difference, in favor of maybe some woolly "clinal" variation at best.

    I came out "100% Orcadian" on FTDNA or GEDmatch or something once.
    Hate the place (like all small islands), not a stick of timber nor a decent pint in the place, the locals are creepy, and purple-faced due to the wind. No member of my family, including all the maternal branches, hails from further north than Salford. Or ever has done, AFAICT. Well .. since Domesday; it's a fair cop. The most "foreign" one is from some crowd of Cornish miners, no Welsh, no Irish, and definitely no Scots.

    tl;dr, nobody who's more than casually interested gives credence to these "ethnic" assignations of testing. Just a bit of flash, to hook the mug punters in.
    , @anon
    The media and academia are paid to enforce Boas' cultural Marxist lie.

    If she told the truth she'd be fired.
  4. The 0.1% canard is so fricking stupid it never stops bothering me. Apparently, 0.1% difference is enough that there’s no physical overlap between Koreans, Nigerians and Swedes. On physically appearance there isn’t even overlapping bell curves. So why can’t 0.1% of variation mean that there are substantial differences in average intelligence and personality? What % variation between races would indicate IQ differences? 0.4%? 6.2%?

    Another childless woman talking nonsense.

    Read More
    • Replies: @415 reasons
    What is the percentage genetic difference between a pit bull and a shih tzu? Probably a hell of a lot less than 0.1% but I wouldn't let a pit bull give my baby kisses...
    , @Eustace Tilley (not)
    "Another childless woman talking nonsense."

    She's childless for a very good reason. Take a close look at the photograph. Chateau Heartiste uses the term "bitterbitch". Now we know what it means.
    , @AndrewR
    I wouldn't say none. Björk could probably pass for a native Korean. She's not Swedish but damn close.
  5. “an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.”

    I’ve noticed a tendency to mislead, presumably deliberately, on matters pertaining to Africans by silently confusing the matter of (i) black peoples from south of the Sahara with (ii) the swarthy white peoples who live north of that desert, and (iii) the peoples who live in the Horn of Africa i.e. roughly east of that desert.

    I dare say that there are examples of (ii) who are more closely related to SW Asians than to (i).

    Read More
    • Replies: @415 reasons
    In general though this statement is so disingenuous as to be completely meaningless. Most charitably, you might construe this statement to mean something like: "For most SNPs and other variants there are population level differences where the same variants occur in all human populations, but at different frequencies. Therefore, a situation is possible where an Asian man could share more variants with a black man than with another randomly selected black man."

    But of course, this is total non-sense. It might be possible, with a lot of time and money and CRISPR, to contrive a situation where you had a black man and an Asian man who shared more variants than a random third party African. But of course there are many variants which are private to one race and not the other. For instance all of the variants that came from admixture with archaic human species that happened outside of Africa. Those private variants or variants with drastically different allele frequencies in populations are presumably the ones with the most effect on forming what we perceive as different races, since variants that change races' appearance come up as the top hits in detecting recent evolution . Also, even though for any individual variant there may be a lot of overlap in the sense that both the major and minor frequency alleles may be relatively common in both Africans and Asians, that ignores the fact that over the many millions of variants in the human genome there is a tremendous amount of structure to the differences.

    So, yes, it is in principle possible that someone with pure Asian ancestry could be genetically "closer" to an African in the sense of having a genome whose sequence is closer to the African A than African A is to African B, in practice this is probably on the order of a trillion to one (actually, probably trillions of times less likely than a trillion to one since we're talking about millions of individual variants). This is particularly unlikely if African A and African B are from the same or similar populations. Also, even if this happened, it seems likely that the fact that the Africans would covary on many of the most heavily selected alleles would mean that you could still identify them as looking and being more similar to one another than to the Asian.

    Frankly the easiest way for an African to be more related to an Asian than to another African is to have an Asian parent a la Tiger Woods or Danny Brown.

    , @kilbourne
    There's also the example of Madagascar, initially populated by Austronesians, coming from Africa to SE Asia and then (by boat) all the way back... before E Africans on the mainland crossed into Madagascar and interbred. So there would be some similarity with some Madagascarans and New Guineans, for example. And you have the 'relic' Negritos of the Andaman Islands near India, who might be more closely related to certain SSAs than intra-SSA comparisons. Of course a distinction can be made between Bantus and Berbers, as you allude to.

    So in some technicalities, Zhang could have a point. But the _implications_, that some random Congolese Bantu could be more related to a Han Chinese than his own neighbor, and the larger we're-all-identical narrative, are absurd.
    , @ben tillman

    “an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.”

    I’ve noticed a tendency to mislead, presumably deliberately, on matters pertaining to Africans by silently confusing the matter of (i) black peoples from south of the Sahara with (ii) the swarthy white peoples who live north of that desert, and (iii) the peoples who live in the Horn of Africa i.e. roughly east of that desert.

    I dare say that there are examples of (ii) who are more closely related to SW Asians than to (i).
     
    Indeed. Good point.
  6. Humans and chimpanzees share 99% of the same genes. And I share 99.99% of the same genes with someone with Down’s Syndrome.

    As you can see, Down’s Syndrome individuals are merely experiencing a social construct and is every bit as capable of earning a Noble Prize as anyone else might.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Realist
    Excellent point.
    , @Pericles
    And. They. Should.

    But first, let's put of a few on the staff of The Atlantic.
  7. Closing the doors on the laughable pamphlet called the Atlantic would be a good start on ending worries about racism. A sure way to get people to notice something is to say, “sure science, medicine, and history still agree but we know that can’t be right.”

    Besides it doesn’t matter what the Atlantic wants, the Chinese are going to keep finding those badthink ideas and applying them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @newrouter
    I'm sure:

    SARAH ZHANG
    , @International Jew

    Closing the doors on the laughable pamphlet called the Atlantic
     
    Give 'em credit for remaining one of the last left-of-center sites to still tolerate comments, indeed to tolerate alt-rightish comments. In fact I notice that there aren't many leftists commenting there at all anymore; it's weird.
  8. @emjr

    If The Atlantic wants to disempower Stormfront
     
    Does Steve Sailer?

    Truth has said that iSteve is the SWPL Stormfront.

    BTW on a completely different subject, I hack my own granola with organic chia seeds, wheatgerm and quinoa flakes. It increases protein content and, er, superfoodiness. I just thought I’d throw that out there.

    Read More
    • Replies: @27 year old
    We grow our own kale
    , @BenKenobi
    and I live in a trendy gentrified neighborhood in a world-class downtown core!
    , @Lot
    Chia and quinoa are awesome. Don't forget the flaxseeds! Wheat germ makes me think of 80s bodybuilders.
    , @Formerly CARealist
    I'm gluten-free, lactose-free, AND low salt. Plus I put strawberries on everything.

    Can someone score me some Hamilton tickets? I think my local Renaissance Faire got cancelled and I've got a flat on my hybrid bicycle. Ack! Craft beer! Hurry!
    , @Bill
    College town, here.
  9. For some reason she chose not to touch on some of the interesting things going on in China with regard to eugenics. Are there scientists running around China saying things like “race isn’t real”?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    I read somewhere that Israel is considering a DNA test to determine who is really "jewish."
    , @Daniel Chieh
    We have our ideological blind spots, but that's not one of them. On the other hand, you'll be amazed at the amount of effort that goes into trying to prove that we didn't come from Africa.

    Sigh.
  10. These critics of the biology of race do a great job of shooting down arguments no one has ever made. Did you know that there’s no allele for black or white? And that sometimes different societies have different racial classifications? Truly profound, you have done your part to contribute to the long struggle against “racism.”

    Read More
  11. Sarah Zhang was the science writer for WIRED for a few years. During that time they began to confuse politics and science. The transformation was complete when they proudly proclaimed Obama guest editor a few months ago.

    She often wrote articles like this:

    https://www.wired.com/2015/10/the-year-we-really-started-caring-about-sexism-in-science/

    Read More
  12. Data point number 11 kamillion supporting the proposition that being on the left requires a continuous string of willful, self imposed stupidities. Look at all the porous, and feeble arguments in her piece that Steve could drive a truck through.When I was a kid leftists were often very bright. That all seemed to change so slowly that I never noticed when it flipped.
    I wonder if it happened because once the left finished it’s march through the institutions and almost everyone in academia was on the Left the talent just got diluted.
    Or maybe it is a case of their beliefs proving false in practice so they had to be unable to reason in order to continue believing what they have been conditioned to. After half a century of post Civil Rights social engineering and immigration the proposition that races are identical and nonexistent is so disproven that you have to turn off your brain in order to
    cling to it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    I wonder if it happened because once the left finished it’s march through the institutions and almost everyone in academia was on the Left the talent just got diluted.
     
    No, what happened is that the institutions marched through the Left. It's institutional prerogatives imposing the stupidity. It's as bad for the actual Left as it is for the rest of us.
    , @anon

    When I was a kid leftists were often very bright. That all seemed to change so slowly that I never noticed when it flipped.
     
    The traditional Right were largely correct but used stupid arguments to defend their positions mainly based on tradition aka "God says so" or "we've always done it like this" which the Left could mock to defeat.

    (The actual reason trad right beliefs existed is they developed out of cultural evolution by trial and error which is basically a blind version of genetics.)

    So after the Left mocked their way into power and implemented their beliefs none of it worked - because if it worked it would have already been discovered by millenia of cultural trial and error and become part of trad beliefs.

    Now the alt-right - using genetics based, including gene-culture co-evolution arguments - can mock the Left in the same way the Left used to mock the trad right.
    , @Pericles
    I submit that these leftists sprang from academia, and as academia has grown steadily dumber, so have they.
    , @Frau Katze

    When I was a kid leftists were often very bright. That all seemed to change so slowly that I never noticed when it flipped.
     
    Good point. I've wondered about that myself. I think it really accelerated in the 1960s but the groundwork was laid earlier.

    That said, it seems to have deteriorated even more just recently. Steve found an NYT editorial against illegal migrants dated 2000. Amazing.
  13. @emjr

    If The Atlantic wants to disempower Stormfront
     
    Does Steve Sailer?

    Of course.

    It’s just as obvious that The Atlantic and fellow travelers do not.

    Baptists and Bootleggers.

    Read More
  14. A random African more related to an Asian than another African? Only if you are being very, very mendacious about your definitions. E.g. Maybe an Egyptian Copt or an Algerian is more related to a Syrian than to a Sub-Saharan African. But those are also more related on a group level.

    I prefer the meme that if you are white and have mixed race children, they are less related to you than random white people off the street. It would be true with a genetic cluster map, and other genetic testing. And for example, if a coal burner pushes out a D’Shawntavius, you’d usually not be able to pick the mother from a lineup unless told, or the son.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pericles

    And for example, if a coal burner pushes out a D’Shawntavius, you’d usually not be able to pick the mother from a lineup unless told, or the son.
     
    Some might, of course, take that as proof that races do not exist.
  15. It’s said that Euros and Orientals have about 3-5 percent Neanderthal DNA, which Africans lack. Yet the difference between a Euro and, say, an African is about 0.1 percent. How are these two facts reconciled?

    Read More
    • Replies: @D. K.
    I am told that I share half of my late father's DNA. Yet, I also am told that I share circa 99% of my DNA with any random chimpanzee found in Africa.
    , @Hodag
    This is easy. If a bog squatting europeasant like me has 2 or 3 % Neanderthal DNA, the Neanderthal DNA is very similar to sapien sapien DNA. It may be rearranged in the individual alleles, but very similar.

    Does this makes sense? I am kinda drunk.
    , @TheJester
    Excellent point. My 23&Me results report that I have about 4% Neanderthal genes ... "314 Neanderthal variants, which is more than 94% of 23&Me Customers." I've read that populations native to the sub-Saharan region do not have Neanderthal DNA. If the 23&Me data is correct, then the claim that all humans differ in only .01% DNA cannot be true.

    I've also read that there are genes that control other genes. If this is the case, then these "controller genes" (however few in number) can potentially have a more significant impact on gene expression than conclusions one might draw from one-on-one DNA mappings.

    The most telling argument for significant impacts in gene expression and variation governing social behavior and intelligence emanating from a few differences in DNA is how genetically close humans are to chimpanzees. Very few genes (whether in chimpanzees or humans) can apparently drive very significant variations in genetic expression ... variations marked enough to justify the category for sorting human beings called "races".
    , @kilbourne
    The avg. genetic difference between homo sapiens and Neanderthals is only 0.2%.
    , @Bill
    That's a good question. The answer has to be "different denominators" for the two calculations, somehow.
    , @Neil Templeton
    I think that means 3-5% of the DNA that Neandertals had but are not shared universally among modern humans. So modern humans and Neandertals share, say, 99.5% (I am obviously guessing here) of their respective genomes, but differ somewhat in the last 0.5%. So apparently some moderns share 3-5% of that 0.5% with Neandertals. So instead of a 3-5% difference from other moderns who don't share Neandertal DNA, the difference would be only 3-5% of 0.5%, or from .015% to .025%. I think that's approximately how the arithmetic works.
    , @Chinese female diversity hire
    The genetic study team reached their conclusion after comparing the genomes of five living humans—from China, France, Papua New Guinea, southern Africa, and western Africa—against the available "rough draft" of the Neanderthal genome. (Get the basics on genetics.)


    The results showed that Neanderthal DNA is 99.7 percent identical to modern human DNA, versus, for example, 98.8 percent for modern humans and chimps, according to the study.


    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/05/100506-science-neanderthals-humans-mated-interbred-dna-gene/
    , @AnotherDad

    It’s said that Euros and Orientals have about 3-5 percent Neanderthal DNA, which Africans lack. Yet the difference between a Euro and, say, an African is about 0.1 percent. How are these two facts reconciled?
     
    Two different things--call them "DNA lineage" and "DNA lineage".

    DNA is essentially protein building instructions. It has to provide instructions to build proteins to run basic cell metabolism, and operate as muscle cells, blood cells, nerve cells, etc. and build proteins to signal and cause differentiation into those things, and the components of larger organs--skin, blood vessels, skeletons, kidneys, eyes, brain, etc. etc and then regulate their interactions. Complicated stuff. And not redesigned from the ground up in a new species. Most of this evolved once and has been tweaked again and again in different families and species. That's why chimpanzees and humans have 99% the same DNA. Actually you look at chimps and humans and actually you'd think the program is more than 99% the same. That's the context of these "only 0.1% difference among humans". Yep, i've got a skeleton, 10 fingers, 10 toes, two eyes, two kidneys, a brain, a penis, same old red blood. So yeah, my DNA is 99.9% the same as some random guy's ... yawn. The 0.1% is still real interesting.

    In contrast the 3-5% Neanderthal DNA is sort of "lineage"--where did your DNA come from?--akin to 23 and me telling you you're say "15% Scottish". Essentially, compare the DNA of various groups of modern humans and the Neanderthal, it's 99.8% the same and 0.2% different. But some alleles of that different Neanderthal DNA show up in modern "out-of-Africa" humans, but not "stayed-in-Africa" humans. (I.e. the "out" humans vary from "stayed-in" humans and some of that variation matches the Neanderthal variation.) You can measure and put a number on it--hey "3% of your DNA is Neanderthal". Meaning: came from Neanderthal line.

    (Note: this doesn't mean 3% of your ancestors back then were Neanderthal, there's selection going on. Most Neanderthal specific DNA was probably quickly "rejected"--reduced fitness and eliminated from the human genome. But the parts that have been passed down were probably helpful to modern humans operating in colder temperate zones and were preferentially selected for and preserved.)
  16. @Malcolm X-Lax
    For some reason she chose not to touch on some of the interesting things going on in China with regard to eugenics. Are there scientists running around China saying things like "race isn't real"?

    I read somewhere that Israel is considering a DNA test to determine who is really “jewish.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    I read somewhere that Israel is considering a DNA test to determine who is really “jewish.”
     
    That would be a good way to get rid of those troublesome Falasha "Jews"......
  17. @Malcolm X-Lax
    For some reason she chose not to touch on some of the interesting things going on in China with regard to eugenics. Are there scientists running around China saying things like "race isn't real"?

    We have our ideological blind spots, but that’s not one of them. On the other hand, you’ll be amazed at the amount of effort that goes into trying to prove that we didn’t come from Africa.

    Sigh.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    Wow, I didn't know that. A few years ago I saw Razib interview an American college professor on bloggingheads.tv who was semi-famous/infamous for positing a multi-regional theory of human evolution. He wasn't unconvincing, though I don't think I'm qualified to evaluate the argument adequately. I know Razib wasn't overly hostile or skeptical. Interestingly, I think that was Razib's last appearance on bloggingheads. Word got around in the comments about some of Razib's more criminal thoughts regarding genetics/race/IQ.

    Here it is.

    http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/2899

    , @AndrewR
    The entire reality of human evolution is probably unpalatable to 99.999% of the earth's population. Either through religious delusions, delusions about racial superiority or delusions about racial equality, few people would like to believe that humans evolved, humans are evolving and that significant genetically-determined differences in median behavior and cognition exist between populations. I guess I'll have to add "WE WUZNT AFRICANZ" to the list of delusions some people hold.
    , @Bill
    How does the theory go? Some pre-human hominid evolved outside Africa then migrated to both Africa and China, or something?
  18. @Anonym
    Truth has said that iSteve is the SWPL Stormfront.

    BTW on a completely different subject, I hack my own granola with organic chia seeds, wheatgerm and quinoa flakes. It increases protein content and, er, superfoodiness. I just thought I'd throw that out there.

    We grow our own kale

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    • Replies: @Lot
    Kale grows as a weed in my yard and can get huge. I don't eat it much as it is often full of insects.
    , @Yak-15
    Collard Greens are superior
  19. @Anonym
    Truth has said that iSteve is the SWPL Stormfront.

    BTW on a completely different subject, I hack my own granola with organic chia seeds, wheatgerm and quinoa flakes. It increases protein content and, er, superfoodiness. I just thought I'd throw that out there.

    and I live in a trendy gentrified neighborhood in a world-class downtown core!

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  20. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    “Or maybe it is a case of their beliefs proving false in practice so they had to be unable to reason in order to continue believing what they have been conditioned to.”

    Yeah, pretty much. It’s funny how sometimes the worst thing you can do to people is give them power. The left got plenty of power in the educational institutions of the modern West. They used it to try to prove the Blank Slate, that is, to show that they could achieve anything though education. They failed. They’ve not been able to come to terms with that failure.

    Read More
  21. “Yet the lay person will ridicule that position as nonsense,” write geneticists Sarah Tishkoff and Kenneth Kidd in the journal Nature Genetics, “because people from different parts of the world look different, whereas people from the same part of the world tend to look similar.”

    Who are you going to believe, Mr. Layperson? Me or your lying eyes?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Well, to be fair, laypeople also think the world is flat. So "common sense" can be vastly incorrect.

    But this is going well into insanity to try to demonstrate "facts" that are entirely unbased in science. What's next? The scientific proof that "all men are created equal and have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?"

    The Catholic Church would approve.
  22. The “we’re all out of Africa if you go back far enough” meme is uttered like an article of faith by the folks who get quoted in these sorts of articles. It makes me wonder what the actual scientific evidence is that established this theory with such supreme authority. Can someone enlighten me please?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Well, I do believe in the evidence that we evolved fully into Homo Sapiens before we left Africa - but I do also think that we've been separated enough times to have developed into meaningfully different populations. We also have significantly different levels of hybridization with other human subspecies.

    China challenges this, I think wrongly:

    http://www.nature.com/news/how-china-is-rewriting-the-book-on-human-origins-1.20231

    But there's a strain of thought that H. erectus evolved into Asians in Asia while maintaining just enough intermarriage to keep us a single species, which would challenge the Out of Africa idea.
  23. The indoctrination is real, a couple of anecdotes…

    1. I remember going to the Museum of science in boston and they had an exhibit on race and genes. They had posters on the wall saying “did you know that a tall black guy and a tall white guy have more genes in common than a tall white guy and a short white guy.”

    2. Im taking an anthro class next semester in college and i looked at the textbook, and its by Augustin Ramos. I think i remembereds seeing that name before so i looked him up on your blog, and sure enough you have a post up from 2014 where he denounces nicholas wade for not believing race is a social construct.

    3. also the lengths the author goes to to overcomplicate things are really startling, c’mon it’s really not that complicated what people mean when they say “race” or “ancestry”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @snorlax

    I remember going to the Museum of science in boston and they had an exhibit on race and genes. They had posters on the wall saying “did you know that a tall black guy and a tall white guy have more genes in common than a tall white guy and a short white guy.”
     
    Which is of course why black guys father white kids more often than tall guys father short kids.

    Other thoughts:

    We share 60% of our DNA with a banana.

    200 comments, seemingly most about the African/Asian claim, and nobody's mentioned Madagascar?
    , @Bill

    3. also the lengths the author goes to to overcomplicate things are really startling, c’mon it’s really not that complicated what people mean when they say “race” or “ancestry”.
     
    Like many words, the definition of "race" has changed over time. Today it tends to mean something like "continental population group." Once upon a time, it meant something more like "ethnic group." Clowns get a lot of mileage out of that. See, if what we once called indigo we now call violet, that means there's no such thing as color! Ta DAAAA!!
  24. @Daniel Chieh
    We have our ideological blind spots, but that's not one of them. On the other hand, you'll be amazed at the amount of effort that goes into trying to prove that we didn't come from Africa.

    Sigh.

    Wow, I didn’t know that. A few years ago I saw Razib interview an American college professor on bloggingheads.tv who was semi-famous/infamous for positing a multi-regional theory of human evolution. He wasn’t unconvincing, though I don’t think I’m qualified to evaluate the argument adequately. I know Razib wasn’t overly hostile or skeptical. Interestingly, I think that was Razib’s last appearance on bloggingheads. Word got around in the comments about some of Razib’s more criminal thoughts regarding genetics/race/IQ.

    Here it is.

    http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/2899

    Read More
  25. I think the “African man’s relatedness to the Asian man” hypothetical comes from the canard that there are greater variations within the traditional races than between the races. I’ve always understood this proportion to mean that the African at one extreme of the African genetic spectrum is further removed from the African at the other extreme of the African genetic spectrum than the Average Genetic African is from the Average Genetic Asian. It’s like saying the height difference between the tallest man and the shortest man is greater than the height difference between the average man and the average woman, so therefore we should pay no attention to the sexes’ respective average heights. Of course, I am probably wrong about this, so I would greatly appreciate some help.

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    You are correct. She is misconstruing the results of f-statistics applied in population genetics, which attempt to quantify what you might call 'statistical inbreeding'. The 'chestnut' should read something like "an African man might statistically be as genetically isolated from another African man as *Asians* are from *Africans*." With f-statistics, you are drawing circles around groups and comparing inbreeding coefficients *within* vs. *among.*

    (And IMO the results really don't support her POV, but anyway...)

    If you are interested in this kind of thing (and it is pretty cool...), a handful of useful google-able buzzwords might include Wahlund effect, fixation index, population substructure, inbreeding coefficients, and Sewall Wright.
  26. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    One thing for sure, Asian chicks sure see RACE AND BIOLOGY when they go hunting for mates.

    Just ask Amy Chua.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    Based on the haircut, jawline, and hectoring tone of the article, a mate in the normal sense may not be what the author is after.
    , @Jefferson
    "One thing for sure, Asian chicks sure see RACE AND BIOLOGY when they go hunting for mates.

    Just ask Amy Chua."

    Asian chicks sure do see race and biology when they go hunting for mates. Hence why for example there exists all Asian speeding dating events in cities like San Francisco and Los Angeles, no Non Asians allowed.
  27. @Opinionator
    It's said that Euros and Orientals have about 3-5 percent Neanderthal DNA, which Africans lack. Yet the difference between a Euro and, say, an African is about 0.1 percent. How are these two facts reconciled?

    I am told that I share half of my late father’s DNA. Yet, I also am told that I share circa 99% of my DNA with any random chimpanzee found in Africa.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Yet how do you know you share half your DNA with your late father? I surmise that it is not due to the same method by which we know that Euros and Orientals have 3-5% Neanderthal DNA, and Africans do not.
    , @International Jew
    You share, with your father, 50% of the DNA where your mother and father's DNA differed. It's thus 50% of that famous 1%. Obviously, you and your father share 100%, not 50%, of the DNA that codes for the development of lungs (as opposed to gills).
    , @jamie b.
    You share 50% of your father's alleles, and nearly 100% of his genes. For any genes that you and a chimp have in common, you're certain to have no alleles in common.
  28. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Zhang seems to be smart but has no agency. Asiancy isn’t the real thing.

    I’m sure she was a bright student, but her racial personality made her dutifully study, study, and study without asking tough questions. She went for good grades, status, and approval.

    So, she just parrots standard PC crap.

    I see more Asians in journalism and think tanks, but it is so different from Jewish rise in same fields in 20th century.

    Jews challenged the prevailing Narrative and established a new one, for good or for ill.

    With Asians, it’s just doggy tricks. Zero originality, just Red-Guard-like adherence to the prevailing Narrative already installed by Jews and homos.

    So, we got two seoul bros and one ‘we wuz zhang’ sistah.

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    • Agree: G Pinfold
    • Replies: @dr kill
    Yes, they are some memorizing M-F ers.
    , @Jefferson
    "With Asians, it’s just doggy tricks. Zero originality,"

    Asian Americans lack originality because they are the least creative racial group in America. Asian Americans even suck at cultural appropriating Black culture. Asian Americans love Hip Hop but their community has produced no Asian version of Kanye West and Lil Wayne for example.

    Asian Americans love the NBA but their community has produced no Asian version of LeBron James and Stephen Curry.

    When Asian Americans appropriate Black culture they produce vastly inferior results. MC Jin and Jeremy Lin is the best they can do, pathetic really.

    Who is the Asian American community's version of Denzel Washington and Samuel L. Jackson? John Cho from Harold & Kumar and George Takei. What a joke.
    , @Olorin
    Bingo. She would concur:


    I suddenly longed for the days when I knew exactly what to learn and received a grade that reflected exactly how much I had learned. I wouldn't say I was good at organic chemistry, but I was very good at taking it—taking notes and exams, attending office hours. Being a student was what I knew—really all I knew.
     
    http://harvardmagazine.com/2011/08/intermission

    She has written a piece or few for usual lefty sites (Atlantic, Wired, Mother Jones, Gizmodo, poliSci Am...) whose stock has fallen considerably since November 8. I guess getting wound up about Nazis and showing closely cropped photos of half a dozen folks with swastikas and flipping Roman salutes still draws writing gigs, however.

    I wondered who signs her paychecks. Foundation or family money was my guess. Then I realized: she's probably working for free. Perpetual internships, basically.

    The "Berta Greenwald Ledecky Fellow" mentioned at the above link pays undergrads at Harvard to do little stints at the university's magazine:

    http://harvardmagazine.com/donate/special-gifts/ledecky

    More in her own words, including whether or not, as a Harvard grad who couldn't find a job, she could get welfare:

    http://harvardmagazine.com/2011/07/messy-questions-messy-answers

    Elsewhere in the pages of Harvard Magazine, she contemplates girl shoes.

    Did I mention she wrote an absolutely dynamite piece as a Seattle Times intern a couple years back on using dummies to teach the administering of pelvic exams?

    I wondered who sent her to Israel to study Drosophila. The Booth Fellowship she drops here and there is a short-term post-grad thing, $15,000 or under to help defray travel/lodging costs.

    She often drops little hints about "having studied neurobiology at Harvard" or organic chem or whatever, but it's window dressing.

    Ergo her maunderings on science aren't even worth reply.

    This budding propagandist in an echo echo echo chamber likely doesn't yet know who she works for...or more accurately is shopping herself around waiting for her big break. Could picking on the vast legions of alt-right Nazis be it!?!?! Imagine being the David to take down Goliath Sailerovsky!

    But here's my punch line:

    The entire profile reminds me of Slate's Ibo scribbler fellow a couple weeks ago--the one revealing those "shocking" Stephen Miller undergrad quotes. Who, on his sixth or seventh scribbling internship after an elite education, launched from Tim Kaine's 2012 Senate campaign, still might get introduced by Dems as the guy who studied calculus at U. of Chicago. While handing around the canapes and doing office grunt work. That it was largely remedial high-school level arithmetic matters not.

    This is the new generation of Magic Affirmative Action grads.

    2016/17 was supposed to be a bonanza year for them--right through 2025 and beyond.

    Instead, it looks like that just may go to white guys with robust trades and tech skills and no, or modest, college degrees. Guys who have been working since they were kids, for money, building real things and mission critical systems/structures, usually with increasing skill sets and responsibility. Guys who only work for free for people they love, and providing for others as well.

    How very unfair, unjust, racist, and nazi it all is. But it's nothing some Zhangsplaining can't fix.
  29. @candid_observer

    “Yet the lay person will ridicule that position as nonsense,” write geneticists Sarah Tishkoff and Kenneth Kidd in the journal Nature Genetics, “because people from different parts of the world look different, whereas people from the same part of the world tend to look similar.”
     
    Who are you going to believe, Mr. Layperson? Me or your lying eyes?

    Well, to be fair, laypeople also think the world is flat. So “common sense” can be vastly incorrect.

    But this is going well into insanity to try to demonstrate “facts” that are entirely unbased in science. What’s next? The scientific proof that “all men are created equal and have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?”

    The Catholic Church would approve.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dearieme
    "laypeople also think the world is flat": to a good approximation that belief is a strange American nonsense that was promoted by Washington Irving.
  30. I’ve never seen anybody… explain how this is supposed to work in theory. Draw me a hypothetical family tree in which an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.

    One drop rule.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    An Egyptian African with Arabic admixture might be more related to an Asian, than he is to a Pygmy.

    See? All proven.

    This is why liberal science is such BS.
  31. … Draw me a hypothetical family tree in which an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.

    This seems pretty simple actually. Start with two populations in Africa A and B. Let B split off a population C which leaves Africa and populates the rest of the world. Assume A and B stay distinct at least in part. Then the African descendants of population B will be more closely related to the descendants of C (Asians, Caucasians and so on) than to the African descendants of population A. Pygmies and Bushmen are candidates for the descendants of population A.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Yes, but what if C splits off into D, E, and F while B remains unchanged? In that case, is B really more related to F than B is to A? And what if A and B weren't really that distinct to begin with? What if A and B, being in much closer close proximity, interbred over 40,000 years while D, E, and F remained separate, at least from A and B?

    And what if A represents a population 100x larger than B? Is it fair then to use B/C/A or B/D/A comparisons (generalizations) when one is more of an outlier than the other? What if F > B by 50x? A member of F picked at random is not likely to be more related to a person picked at random from an A/B mixed cohort living in close proximity and having interbred.

    It may not be as simple as you think. It would seem to be common sense that the average Sub-Saharan African would be more closely related to another Sub-Saharan African picked at random than with any European (or two from the same group picked at random and compared to a random sampling of the other).
  32. @D. K.
    I am told that I share half of my late father's DNA. Yet, I also am told that I share circa 99% of my DNA with any random chimpanzee found in Africa.

    Yet how do you know you share half your DNA with your late father? I surmise that it is not due to the same method by which we know that Euros and Orientals have 3-5% Neanderthal DNA, and Africans do not.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dr kill
    That's so true. Only the mother knows for certain. But if you feed them long enough they do develop some resemblance.
  33. @Opinionator
    I read somewhere that Israel is considering a DNA test to determine who is really "jewish."

    I read somewhere that Israel is considering a DNA test to determine who is really “jewish.”

    That would be a good way to get rid of those troublesome Falasha “Jews”……

    Read More
  34. @Chrisnonymous

    I’ve never seen anybody... explain how this is supposed to work in theory. Draw me a hypothetical family tree in which an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.
     
    One drop rule.

    An Egyptian African with Arabic admixture might be more related to an Asian, than he is to a Pygmy.

    See? All proven.

    This is why liberal science is such BS.

    Read More
  35. One of the dumber fallacies that leftists deliberately fall into is the notion that the degree of genetic separation is the precise indicator of relevant genetic differences on any given trait.

    But genetic separation — roughly an index of how many generations populations have been separated — represents only the potential for genetic differences on any given trait. If that trait has not been selected for differentially between the populations, their genes may well not differ significantly on that trait. Thus, even if different groups in SubSaharan Africa have been separated for long periods of time — perhaps as long as those between some populations outside of SubSaharan Africa and some of those within SubSaharan Africa — they may not differ much genetically on certain traits of interest, because they all live in basically similar environments in SubSaharan Africa.

    Thus, all such groups are quite black in skin color, because they all live in the tropics. And this is likewise true for socially important traits: if their environments are all pretty similar in what they select for, they won’t differ much genetically on those traits. It becomes reasonable to aggregate them together as a race if in many of the salient traits they are all the same — pretty much as we do with other kinds of animals.

    On the other hand, groups that have gone out of Africa may have evolved tremendously on any number of salient traits, separating them by a good distance from all SubSaharan African groups, and perhaps from each other. In that case, distinguishing them as separate races is pretty much obligatory, if we have any real interest in understanding this world we live in.

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  36. “an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.”

    So when is she going to inform her fellow Atlantic writer Ta-Nehesi Coates of this fact?

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  37. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @dearieme
    "all of the genetic diversity in humans comprises just 0.1 percent of the human genome": and there was me, thinking it was about 0.3%.

    Anyway, the 0.1 %/0.3% is obviously so small that it matters not a whit. The difference, for instance between a man and a woman - of no significance. Between people who can thrive at high altitude and those who can't - of no importance. Et bloody cetera. Tedious lies endlessly repeated.

    Sarah is wrong.

    By the logic Sarah uses, I guess we shouldn’t consider there to be much difference either between a human and a chimpanzee, since the difference there is only ~1.2% or so.

    1% of the genome is significant. 0.1% is significant.

    If you want to see just how much, take a look at any one of a wide number of hereditary diseases. These often are the result of only a single gene mutated. In fact, many are the result of a single nucleotide changed (out of 3 billion or so in the human genome). That’s how much of an impact 0.000000033% difference in the genome can have.

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    • Replies: @Barnard
    She probably doesn't see much difference between a human and chimp and wouldn't object if a human wanted to a marry a chimp. Don't think you can ever make up a position that is too extreme for a leftist academic to take.
  38. Hey, leftists and “respectable types” don’t want to talk about this stuff, so other people wind up dominating the discussion. That’s how life works. And the commenters at Stormfront vary from well-informed to not-so-well-informed (on pretty much everything, not just genetics), well fancy that!

    Still, Mz Zhang must be punished for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

    “I think there’s a much more present danger for our scientific work to become weaponized to enact these ethno-nationalist policies.”

    Well, the eggheads could always storm Stormfront, and set the horribly wrong ethnonationalists right. That’s how these things are usually handled; with open inquiry and discussion. I got news for ‘em though – their arguments had better be tight. Faulty logic will be exposed, just like here.

    Modern geneticists take pains to protect their careers from SJWs, race-obscurantists, and leftist hypocrites, sure, but they do a really shitty job of showing their work.

    Mz Zhang shouldn’t sell science short; it’s a big part of the problem. Yuuuuge.

    Should I bother following the link and reading the article? Did Zhang, Carlson, Morning, et al ever bother to list some of the ways that the bad racist men are misusing or weaponizing genetics? I’m guessing not.

    And to put it in perspective, all of the genetic diversity in humans comprises just 0.1 percent of the human genome.

    Obviously, there’s a fair amount of genetic diversity in humans, so 0.1% must be pretty important.

    For a quick and dirty scale:

    This link says humans and cabbages have 40-50% of their DNA in common, for 60 to 50% diversity:

    Do Humans and cabbages share the same common DNA?

    This one says humans and chimps share 98.8% of their DNA, for 1.2% diversity:

    DNA: Comparing Humans and Chimps

    This link:

    Human, Dog Genomes Similar, Study Finds

    Wouldn’t cough a percentage up to my quick scan, but this:

    Scientists have completed a rough sketch of the canine genome. The results may explain why dogs are humans’ best friend: Their genes are similar.

    Okay, that’s just racist. Wow, in the current year, I can’t even…

    Aha! I finally found the Rosetta Stone:

    Percentage of genetic similarity between humans and animals

    Scouring the Web, here is what I have found so far.

    - Genome-wide variation from one human being to another can be up to 0.5% (99.5% similarity)

    - Chimpanzees are 96% to 98% similar to humans, depending on how it is calculated. (source)

    - Cats have 90% of homologous genes with humans, 82% with dogs, 80% with cows, 79% with chimpanzees, 69% with rats and 67% with mice. (source)

    - Cows (Bos taurus) are 80% genetically similar to humans (source)

    - 75% of mouse genes have equivalents in humans (source), 90% of the mouse genome could be lined up with a region on the human genome (source) 99% of mouse genes turn out to have analogues in humans (source)

    - The fruit fly (Drosophila) shares about 60% of its DNA with humans (source).

    - About 60% of chicken genes correspond to a similar human gene. (source)

    The number of genes across a few tested species can be compared on HomoloGene.

    The trouble with the way we talk about race is that our biological differences are by degree rather by category. The borders of a country or continent are not magical lines that demarcate one genetically distinct population from another.

    That’s the trouble with the way they talk about the way that we talk about race, anyway.

    Those boundaries will depend who is drawing them and where and when. What race, for example, are Mexicans?

    What species is a sub-species in the process of speciating into a new species? Mexicans are baking a new race. I’d currently say that they are a variety of races, including people of no/mixed race. In other words, country of origin != proxy for race.

    Humans and chimpanzees share 99% of the same genes. And I share 99.99% of the same genes with someone with Down’s Syndrome.

    As you can see, Down’s Syndrome individuals are merely experiencing a social construct and is every bit as capable of earning a Noble Prize as anyone else might.

    Good one.

    Are there scientists running around China saying things like “race isn’t real”?

    No, the Chinese saying it are all in the west, saying it to White people. Now that I’ve typed that, I wonder if they say “chasing money is bad for your soul,” too.

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  39. How could an African be closer to am Asian than a fellow African:. Ernie Els and a Pygmie.

    Actually, compare a native Tunisian to a Pygmie…That is a huge difference.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    North African Caucasoids are closer to Aztecs and Koreans than to sub Saharan Africans.
  40. @Anonym
    Truth has said that iSteve is the SWPL Stormfront.

    BTW on a completely different subject, I hack my own granola with organic chia seeds, wheatgerm and quinoa flakes. It increases protein content and, er, superfoodiness. I just thought I'd throw that out there.

    Chia and quinoa are awesome. Don’t forget the flaxseeds! Wheat germ makes me think of 80s bodybuilders.

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    • Replies: @Anonym
    Chia and quinoa are awesome. Don’t forget the flaxseeds! Wheat germ makes me think of 80s bodybuilders.

    I thought brewer's yeast was 80s bodybuilders. Maybe wheat germ is too. Wheat germ is in the cereal additions section of the supermarket and has a lot of protein while being inexpensive. It does the job.

    It's probably the most, maybe only SWPLish thing about me. If I was true hipster I'd grow chia or buy some special blend from a farmer's market but too many kids, too much work, too little time.
  41. @Joe Sweet
    The "we're all out of Africa if you go back far enough" meme is uttered like an article of faith by the folks who get quoted in these sorts of articles. It makes me wonder what the actual scientific evidence is that established this theory with such supreme authority. Can someone enlighten me please?

    Well, I do believe in the evidence that we evolved fully into Homo Sapiens before we left Africa – but I do also think that we’ve been separated enough times to have developed into meaningfully different populations. We also have significantly different levels of hybridization with other human subspecies.

    China challenges this, I think wrongly:

    http://www.nature.com/news/how-china-is-rewriting-the-book-on-human-origins-1.20231

    But there’s a strain of thought that H. erectus evolved into Asians in Asia while maintaining just enough intermarriage to keep us a single species, which would challenge the Out of Africa idea.

    Read More
  42. @27 year old
    We grow our own kale

    Kale grows as a weed in my yard and can get huge. I don’t eat it much as it is often full of insects.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    You're missing out on a cheap and reliable source of protein.
  43. If anyone has a twitter account, send a link of this article to Random C. Analysis @RCAFDM He sometimes has the patience to comment on the scientific errors in politicized articles about genetics and race.

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  44. how messy these racial categories

    Except for 99% of the world, they are either clearly a member of one race or an obvious hybrid of two of them. I do not see how this is “messy.” Tiger Woods, George Zimmerman, and Soledad O’Brien are not very common types.

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  45. @Opinionator
    It's said that Euros and Orientals have about 3-5 percent Neanderthal DNA, which Africans lack. Yet the difference between a Euro and, say, an African is about 0.1 percent. How are these two facts reconciled?

    This is easy. If a bog squatting europeasant like me has 2 or 3 % Neanderthal DNA, the Neanderthal DNA is very similar to sapien sapien DNA. It may be rearranged in the individual alleles, but very similar.

    Does this makes sense? I am kinda drunk.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    This is easy. If a bog squatting europeasant like me has 2 or 3 % Neanderthal DNA, the Neanderthal DNA is very similar to sapien sapien DNA. It may be rearranged in the individual alleles, but very similar.

    Does this makes sense? I am kinda drunk.
     
    It might make sense to some people, but not to me and probably not to Opinionator.
  46. “an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Genetic_Diversity:_Lewontin’s_Fallacy

    “the Sahara”

    This might be the counter-argument. If you just look at facial features as you travel around from say Germany through Turkey to Egypt, Somalia, Kenya, the rest of Africa, the transition from German to Black African is very slow. America’s #1 Somali, Minn. State Rep. Ilhan Omar looks basically like a White person, except for her skin color and hair coarseness. Her skin color is not much darker than darker Mediterranean Europeans. So going from Germany to Kenya there is no sharp racial geographic boundary. Are Somalis African or European?

    I think it works out the same way if you travel down the Atlantic from Spain to Nigeria along the coast.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Similarly, if you walk from the English Channel to Korea, you don't cross any supersharp borders between Europeans and East Asians. On the other hand, there aren't that many people in the middle of Eurasia, so most people are at one end or the other and are pretty distinctive looking.
    , @Steve Sailer
    I think it works out the same way if you travel down the Atlantic from Spain to Nigeria along the coast.

    True, but the population density is very low in Spanish Sahara or whatever it's called these days.

    As you cross the Sahara from oasis to oasis, the look of the population changes, but nobody lives between the oases.

    , @Steve Sailer
    South Asia is different, however, where in the middle of Eurasia you have a massive population. Still, while there are lot of clinal differences in India, there is still a pretty sharp boundary in the southern foothills of the Himalayas. The mountain climbing Sherpas don't come below about a mile high in Nepal for fear of malaria. They're extremely Mongoloid-looking.
    , @BB753
    "State Rep. Ilhan Omar looks basically like a White person, except for her skin color and hair coarseness."

    Let's say she looks like a mulatta. Would you say she looked basically white if her name was Shaniqua Jackson?

    "So going from Germany to Kenya there is no sharp racial geographic boundary"

    Well, there's the Mediterranean, unless you choose to cross the Bosphorus instead and travel down to Somalia through the Middle East into Africa.
    There's a quite dramatic racial transition if you travel from Iberia or Sicily to North Africa, notwithstanding popular myths. Much sharper than crossing either the Pyrenees or the Alps into the Iberian or Italian Peninsulas.
    , @backup
    That is partly because current day racial phenotypes are relatively new. For instance, Kostenki 14's facial features look more like it's contemporaries in Africa - in this case the Hofmeyr find - than they look at any modern human. Hofmeyr itself - a South African find - didn't look much like current day Africans [1]. But we are sure that genetically Kostenki 14 was very much an European. [2]

    That means that the genetic split happened clearly before the different phenotypes evolved. And that most likely is the best proof that mankind indeed can be described as different races.

    [1] http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2007/01/new-kostenki-finds-in-science-magazine.html
    [2] http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/11/european-genetic-identity-may-stretch-back-36000-years

  47. “In a sense, genetics is a modern version of what early scientists were doing in terms of their studies of skulls or blood type,” says Ann Morning, a sociologist at New York University. “We have a long history of turning to whatever we think is the most authoritative sense of knowledge and expecting to find race proved or demonstrated there.”

    Jo Phelan, a sociologist recently retired from Columbia, has devised studies seeing how simply reading a news article about racial differences in genetic risk for heart attacks reinforces the belief that whites and African Americans are essentially different.

    So, the article quotes two sociologists to refute the claims of genetic scientists. Anybody else see the disconnect here?

    Sociology is not a science. Frankly, I don’t think it should even be accorded status as an academic discipline in the humanities. Sociology, along with Cultural Anthropology, are the two academic majors most infected with subjective bullshit and Cultural Marxism.

    Would any respectable publication quote a sociologist to refute an astronomer?A physicist? A geologist? “Astronomers believe that the Earth orbits the Sun, but sociologists contend that the Igbo people do not adhere to this belief.”

    Well, why in hell would they quote sociologists to critique the science of genetics, which has been known by animal breeders for probably the last three or four millenia? Recent advances in mapping of the genome has created empirical, scientific data. There are genetic tests available that can prove or disprove the genetic heritability of many diseases, and DNA tests that can absolutely identify individuals suspected of crimes. Sociology is not a science because it has no objective standards, and no ability to conduct tests to prove or disprove hypotheses.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    Look at the mileage Bill Nye and deGrasse have gotten being leftist rubberstampers.
    , @Absurdius Maximus
    I made my girlfriend take a philosophy of science course this year (which turned out to be a disaster--the class is run by a "feminist-philosopher" lolol but I digress) . Earlier this month she was working on an essay, and showed me the first article she found when researching 'inductive vs. deductive reasoning' on the interwebs. The article first presents an explanation of deductive reasoning which concludes by providing an example for deductive research: a study that "proved" college professors are racist towards non-white students... Fortunately my girlfriend is privy to such BS, was able to sniff it a mile away, and shared the article with me.


    I've included the article below. As happens often, I both laughed and raged at the absurdity of the thing as I read it. Right off the bat, the introductory stock photo shows an Asian chick in a lab coat doing theoretical work (kickass [minority] wiminz in STEMs yall!). When I read how the clear and cold razor of logic had proven systemic racism in academia, I immediately went back to the top of the page to check the author. You got it. A wyminz. And a "sociology expert." This is a lady who has probably never read Aristotle or any classic philosophy in her life, and yet here she is writing an article about the most basic elements of philosophy... The gall!

    I have come to expect this in academia and in social media etc. However, this was the top source from a major search engine. What happens to that curious 15-20 year old who is just getting their feet wet with philosophy when this is their first exposure to it?



    http://sociology.about.com/od/Research/a/Deductive-Reasoning-Versus-Inductive-Reasoning.htm
    , @Forbes
    Yeah, I noticed that (quoting sociologists)--it's about The Narrative, not the science. Quotes from non-specialists are used to amplify the writer's perspective.
  48. @Hodag
    How could an African be closer to am Asian than a fellow African:. Ernie Els and a Pygmie.

    Actually, compare a native Tunisian to a Pygmie...That is a huge difference.

    North African Caucasoids are closer to Aztecs and Koreans than to sub Saharan Africans.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "North African Caucasoids are closer to Aztecs and Koreans than to sub Saharan Africans."

    Most North Africans have some Sub Saharan African DNA, hence why they are not capable of creating prosperous 1st World societies.
  49. not just geneticists that have to worry. All kinds of science being misinterpreted & decontextualized for ill/hate by alt-right. Geneticists need to speak out against misinterpretations

    We will all be People of Color in a few years so all this is moot. Or so I hope. I am constantly amazed at the evil exhibited by white men

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Yakub's revenge will linger yet!
    , @jamie b.
    "We will all be People of Color in a few years so all this is moot. "

    I'll be dead in a few years?
  50. Draw me a hypothetical family tree in which an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.

    It would work if one of the Africans was a North African Caucasoid and the other was a sub-Saharan Negroid. The North African Caucasoid would be more closely related to Europeans and Asians than he would be to the sub-Saharan Negroid.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Sure, if you define Omar Sharif as "African," but we usually use "African" as shorthand for "sub-Saharan African."
    , @Boomstick
    It's probably outdated by better data now, but:

    http://i.imgur.com/cM1xl.gif

    The length of the line connecting two populations is a measure of the genetic distance between population averages. Notice the African population.
  51. “If a genetic test can identify you as 78 percent Norwegian, 12 percent Scottish, and 10 percent Italian, then it’s easy to assume there is such thing as white DNA.”

    According to affirmative action there is such a thing as White DNA. The more you have of it the less likely you will benefit from affirmative action.

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  52. @George
    “an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Genetic_Diversity:_Lewontin's_Fallacy

    "the Sahara"

    This might be the counter-argument. If you just look at facial features as you travel around from say Germany through Turkey to Egypt, Somalia, Kenya, the rest of Africa, the transition from German to Black African is very slow. America's #1 Somali, Minn. State Rep. Ilhan Omar looks basically like a White person, except for her skin color and hair coarseness. Her skin color is not much darker than darker Mediterranean Europeans. So going from Germany to Kenya there is no sharp racial geographic boundary. Are Somalis African or European?

    I think it works out the same way if you travel down the Atlantic from Spain to Nigeria along the coast.

    Similarly, if you walk from the English Channel to Korea, you don’t cross any supersharp borders between Europeans and East Asians. On the other hand, there aren’t that many people in the middle of Eurasia, so most people are at one end or the other and are pretty distinctive looking.

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    • Replies: @George
    "there aren’t that many people in the middle of Eurasia"

    I have no idea how many people were in Central Asia thousands of years ago when the races were being sorted out. It may be that stone age technology required a more even distribution of people, I don't know. Population spurts led to various nomadic invasions. Turks, Mongols, and Tibetans for example. So Central Asia may have been more populated than you are assuming. Places like Egypt and Ethiopia seem to have always been very populous. So there may have been considerable interbreeding between Europe, East Asian and Africa. Look at Martin Skhreli. To me he has very Ottoman or Turkish features, his family is Balkan/Albanian.

    Exponential growth could mean much of the large population increases in Europe, China or Nigeria are very recent.
  53. Your typical Bantu is genetically closer to Chinese ( or anyone else in Eurasia) than he is to another African – if that other African is a Bushman. Bushmen split off from the rest of the human racer earlier than anyone else (with the possibility exception of unmixed Pygmies, except that they’re probably all mixed nowadays)

    What if that other African is also Bantu, like most people in Africa? Then the two Bantu are genetically closer to each other than they are to any Bushman, or to any Eurasian.

    ‘no such thing as race” is of course complete bullshit.

    Anyone that pushes or even acquiesces to such bullshit is ridiculous and contemptible, unless too stupid to know better. What high school did Zhang attend – Commie Martyrs?

    I think it’s called “fake news”.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Anyone that pushes or even acquiesces to such bullshit is ridiculous and contemptible, unless too stupid to know better.
     
    Careful. The most contemptible of all hire the stupid for the express purpose of exploiting that loophole.

    Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
  54. @Lot
    North African Caucasoids are closer to Aztecs and Koreans than to sub Saharan Africans.

    “North African Caucasoids are closer to Aztecs and Koreans than to sub Saharan Africans.”

    Most North Africans have some Sub Saharan African DNA, hence why they are not capable of creating prosperous 1st World societies.

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    • Replies: @dearieme
    "Most North Africans have some Sub Saharan African DNA, hence why they are not capable of creating prosperous 1st World societies." But they participated successfully in a first world society as Romans at a time when most of my ancestors didn't and perhaps yours didn't either.
  55. @George
    “an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Genetic_Diversity:_Lewontin's_Fallacy

    "the Sahara"

    This might be the counter-argument. If you just look at facial features as you travel around from say Germany through Turkey to Egypt, Somalia, Kenya, the rest of Africa, the transition from German to Black African is very slow. America's #1 Somali, Minn. State Rep. Ilhan Omar looks basically like a White person, except for her skin color and hair coarseness. Her skin color is not much darker than darker Mediterranean Europeans. So going from Germany to Kenya there is no sharp racial geographic boundary. Are Somalis African or European?

    I think it works out the same way if you travel down the Atlantic from Spain to Nigeria along the coast.

    I think it works out the same way if you travel down the Atlantic from Spain to Nigeria along the coast.

    True, but the population density is very low in Spanish Sahara or whatever it’s called these days.

    As you cross the Sahara from oasis to oasis, the look of the population changes, but nobody lives between the oases.

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  56. @Anon
    One thing for sure, Asian chicks sure see RACE AND BIOLOGY when they go hunting for mates.

    Just ask Amy Chua.

    Based on the haircut, jawline, and hectoring tone of the article, a mate in the normal sense may not be what the author is after.

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    • LOL: Bill
    • Replies: @Anonym
    Based on the haircut, jawline, and hectoring tone of the article, a mate in the normal sense may not be what the author is after.

    Zhang no wanta some wang.

    In the world of dykedom, I would think that the femmy lesbians would be the ones in demand due to lesbians being female bodies with male brains/drives. (Much like the homosexual world is apparently a sea of bottoms looking for a top.)

    It probably sucks extra for an East Asian lesbian. To a femmy lesbian, the butch East Asian lesbian is likely as appealing as the East Asian male. This would add to Zhang's hate against the so-called white male patriarchy. White men are the alphas according to the dating sites, and this may add fuel to the fire for her, being aced out by white men and even butch white women.
  57. @George
    “an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Genetic_Diversity:_Lewontin's_Fallacy

    "the Sahara"

    This might be the counter-argument. If you just look at facial features as you travel around from say Germany through Turkey to Egypt, Somalia, Kenya, the rest of Africa, the transition from German to Black African is very slow. America's #1 Somali, Minn. State Rep. Ilhan Omar looks basically like a White person, except for her skin color and hair coarseness. Her skin color is not much darker than darker Mediterranean Europeans. So going from Germany to Kenya there is no sharp racial geographic boundary. Are Somalis African or European?

    I think it works out the same way if you travel down the Atlantic from Spain to Nigeria along the coast.

    South Asia is different, however, where in the middle of Eurasia you have a massive population. Still, while there are lot of clinal differences in India, there is still a pretty sharp boundary in the southern foothills of the Himalayas. The mountain climbing Sherpas don’t come below about a mile high in Nepal for fear of malaria. They’re extremely Mongoloid-looking.

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  58. BiDil. In its pivotal clinical trial, this drug combination reduced mortality by 43%, reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and improved quality of life, compared to the Standard of Care. For African-American patients with severe congestive heart failure [Wikipedia]. In earlier trials, patients who did not self-identify as African-American didn’t appear to benefit from BiDil.

    Sarah Zhang can weigh the sanctity and purity of her deeply held beliefs against that 42%. For her, I don’t think that’s very difficult.

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    • Replies: @anon
    Quite - and how many BiDils are there out there - 100s, 1000s?
  59. @Joe Walker
    Draw me a hypothetical family tree in which an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.

    It would work if one of the Africans was a North African Caucasoid and the other was a sub-Saharan Negroid. The North African Caucasoid would be more closely related to Europeans and Asians than he would be to the sub-Saharan Negroid.

    Sure, if you define Omar Sharif as “African,” but we usually use “African” as shorthand for “sub-Saharan African.”

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  60. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Mikey Darmody
    I think the "African man's relatedness to the Asian man" hypothetical comes from the canard that there are greater variations within the traditional races than between the races. I've always understood this proportion to mean that the African at one extreme of the African genetic spectrum is further removed from the African at the other extreme of the African genetic spectrum than the Average Genetic African is from the Average Genetic Asian. It's like saying the height difference between the tallest man and the shortest man is greater than the height difference between the average man and the average woman, so therefore we should pay no attention to the sexes' respective average heights. Of course, I am probably wrong about this, so I would greatly appreciate some help.

    You are correct. She is misconstruing the results of f-statistics applied in population genetics, which attempt to quantify what you might call ‘statistical inbreeding’. The ‘chestnut’ should read something like “an African man might statistically be as genetically isolated from another African man as *Asians* are from *Africans*.” With f-statistics, you are drawing circles around groups and comparing inbreeding coefficients *within* vs. *among.*

    (And IMO the results really don’t support her POV, but anyway…)

    If you are interested in this kind of thing (and it is pretty cool…), a handful of useful google-able buzzwords might include Wahlund effect, fixation index, population substructure, inbreeding coefficients, and Sewall Wright.

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    • Replies: @Mikey Darmody
    Thanks for the information! I am much obliged.
    , @Anonymous
    Here is Yale psychologist Paul Bloom's version of this chestnut in Descartes' Baby:

    There is an important sense, then, in which races are artifacts--that is, the concept of race has been created by people, not by nature. But we do not tend to see it this way. Instead, we see race, like species, as corresponding to deeper objective facts about reality. In a national survey, Americans were asked whether they agreed with this statement: "TWO PEOPLE from the SAME RACE will always be more genetically similar to each other than TWO PEOPLE from DIFFERENT RACES." Most adults agreed with this statement. But it is not true. (To see why, consider again the notion that races are like families. Is my child more genetically similar to every other Bloom than to every other non-Bloom, including his mother?) In fact, two randomly chosen members of the same race are genetically far more different from each other than the average member of one race is from the average member of another.

     

    Thoughts?
  61. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @James B. Shearer
    ... Draw me a hypothetical family tree in which an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.

    This seems pretty simple actually. Start with two populations in Africa A and B. Let B split off a population C which leaves Africa and populates the rest of the world. Assume A and B stay distinct at least in part. Then the African descendants of population B will be more closely related to the descendants of C (Asians, Caucasians and so on) than to the African descendants of population A. Pygmies and Bushmen are candidates for the descendants of population A.

    Yes, but what if C splits off into D, E, and F while B remains unchanged? In that case, is B really more related to F than B is to A? And what if A and B weren’t really that distinct to begin with? What if A and B, being in much closer close proximity, interbred over 40,000 years while D, E, and F remained separate, at least from A and B?

    And what if A represents a population 100x larger than B? Is it fair then to use B/C/A or B/D/A comparisons (generalizations) when one is more of an outlier than the other? What if F > B by 50x? A member of F picked at random is not likely to be more related to a person picked at random from an A/B mixed cohort living in close proximity and having interbred.

    It may not be as simple as you think. It would seem to be common sense that the average Sub-Saharan African would be more closely related to another Sub-Saharan African picked at random than with any European (or two from the same group picked at random and compared to a random sampling of the other).

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  62. @Alfa158
    Data point number 11 kamillion supporting the proposition that being on the left requires a continuous string of willful, self imposed stupidities. Look at all the porous, and feeble arguments in her piece that Steve could drive a truck through.When I was a kid leftists were often very bright. That all seemed to change so slowly that I never noticed when it flipped.
    I wonder if it happened because once the left finished it's march through the institutions and almost everyone in academia was on the Left the talent just got diluted.
    Or maybe it is a case of their beliefs proving false in practice so they had to be unable to reason in order to continue believing what they have been conditioned to. After half a century of post Civil Rights social engineering and immigration the proposition that races are identical and nonexistent is so disproven that you have to turn off your brain in order to
    cling to it.

    I wonder if it happened because once the left finished it’s march through the institutions and almost everyone in academia was on the Left the talent just got diluted.

    No, what happened is that the institutions marched through the Left. It’s institutional prerogatives imposing the stupidity. It’s as bad for the actual Left as it is for the rest of us.

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    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
    Never heard that. Is that the sinking ship boards rat formulation?
  63. @Anon
    Zhang seems to be smart but has no agency. Asiancy isn't the real thing.

    I'm sure she was a bright student, but her racial personality made her dutifully study, study, and study without asking tough questions. She went for good grades, status, and approval.

    So, she just parrots standard PC crap.

    I see more Asians in journalism and think tanks, but it is so different from Jewish rise in same fields in 20th century.

    Jews challenged the prevailing Narrative and established a new one, for good or for ill.

    With Asians, it's just doggy tricks. Zero originality, just Red-Guard-like adherence to the prevailing Narrative already installed by Jews and homos.

    So, we got two seoul bros and one 'we wuz zhang' sistah.

    Yes, they are some memorizing M-F ers.

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  64. @emjr

    If The Atlantic wants to disempower Stormfront
     
    Does Steve Sailer?

    “Does Steve Sailer?”

    I wasn’t aware that was his job, or even his responsibility.

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  65. And I love how the lying bitch works around the fact that eugenics was a “Progressive” thing.

    Of course, if she is not a lying bitch then she is totally ignorant…

    It was not “Progressives” who were into eugenics, you see. It was Americans…and then the oh-so-smooth pivot to the Nazis…

    “In the early 20th century, Americans used eugenics to justify restrictions on immigrants from southern and eastern Europe. Then the world changed. The Nazis lost World War II and the racial policies they promulgated became abhorrent.”

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  66. > [Carlson] ended up reading page after page of Stormfront discussions on the reliability of 23andMe ancestry results and whether Neanderthal interbreeding is the reason for the genetic superiority of whites. Obsession with racial purity is easily channeled, apparently, into an obsession with genetics.

    Those words, Ms. Zhang. Do you know what they mean?

    Get me rewrite.

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  67. @Opinionator
    Yet how do you know you share half your DNA with your late father? I surmise that it is not due to the same method by which we know that Euros and Orientals have 3-5% Neanderthal DNA, and Africans do not.

    That’s so true. Only the mother knows for certain. But if you feed them long enough they do develop some resemblance.

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  68. So, is 23 & Me generally considered the most accurate/detailed of those tests? Never did one but considering it. Don’t want to go to Stormfront to find out.

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  69. @gcochran
    Your typical Bantu is genetically closer to Chinese ( or anyone else in Eurasia) than he is to another African - if that other African is a Bushman. Bushmen split off from the rest of the human racer earlier than anyone else (with the possibility exception of unmixed Pygmies, except that they're probably all mixed nowadays)

    What if that other African is also Bantu, like most people in Africa? Then the two Bantu are genetically closer to each other than they are to any Bushman, or to any Eurasian.


    'no such thing as race" is of course complete bullshit.

    Anyone that pushes or even acquiesces to such bullshit is ridiculous and contemptible, unless too stupid to know better. What high school did Zhang attend - Commie Martyrs?

    I think it's called "fake news".

    Anyone that pushes or even acquiesces to such bullshit is ridiculous and contemptible, unless too stupid to know better.

    Careful. The most contemptible of all hire the stupid for the express purpose of exploiting that loophole.

    Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

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  70. @TWS
    Closing the doors on the laughable pamphlet called the Atlantic would be a good start on ending worries about racism. A sure way to get people to notice something is to say, "sure science, medicine, and history still agree but we know that can't be right."

    Besides it doesn't matter what the Atlantic wants, the Chinese are going to keep finding those badthink ideas and applying them.

    I’m sure:

    SARAH ZHANG

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    • Replies: @TWS
    Yes, clearly a westernized Chinese woman = Chinese scientists in China. Guaranteed China will develop genetic tech and know how.
  71. Read More
    • Replies: @Yak-15
    Race is a proxy for identity which is used to line up for benefits or tribal banding for support.
  72. “- an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.”

    Statements like this are just ignorance by those who don’t know any better, or lies by those who do. Unless what Ms. Zhang is calling “an African” is a full blooded Indian living in Uganda.

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  73. @Tiny Duck
    not just geneticists that have to worry. All kinds of science being misinterpreted & decontextualized for ill/hate by alt-right. Geneticists need to speak out against misinterpretations

    We will all be People of Color in a few years so all this is moot. Or so I hope. I am constantly amazed at the evil exhibited by white men

    Yakub’s revenge will linger yet!

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  74. Along these lines, from WaPo:

    23 and me in the classroom

    Might not these tests backfire, as people come to realize that the results of the DNA test accords pretty well with the way that people self-identify or identify others?

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Might not these tests backfire, as people come to realize that the results of the DNA test accords pretty well with the way that people self-identify or identify others?
     
    I don't see why it couldn't achieve the goals of both parties (the subject of the article, who seeks greater understanding among races, and readers here who seek greater understanding full stop). The only losers would be those promoting the ignorance.
  75. We share almost all of our DNA with Chimpanzees, yet we have our flag on the moon and they can’t even do Calculus.

    A little bit of DNA goes a long way.

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    • LOL: Frau Katze
    • Replies: @dfordoom

    We share almost all of our DNA with Chimpanzees, yet we have our flag on the moon and they can’t even do Calculus.
     
    I'm sure a sociologist could refute that. They'd probably point out that chimpanzees have been the victims of institutionalised racism. Evil racists have kept chimpanzees out of Harvard.

    Species are just a social construct.
  76. Ms. Zhang and her editors have crammed an impressive number of falsehoods, misrepresentations, and instances of flawed logic into a single article. But I think her central premise is correct.

    Yet since the dawn of the genomic revolution, sociologists and historians have warned that even seemingly benign genetics research can reinforce a belief that different races are essentially different.

    Ms. Zhang’ lineage is the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, and the Cultural Revolution. For this neo-Bolshevik, biology is an obstacle to be overcome in the quest for a perfect anti-racist society. Lysenko had his Triumph of the Will, Zhang must have hers.

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    • Replies: @Forbes
    As Zhang reports, if sociologists have warned us, then we better pay heed to the warning...
    ;-)
  77. @Anon
    Zhang seems to be smart but has no agency. Asiancy isn't the real thing.

    I'm sure she was a bright student, but her racial personality made her dutifully study, study, and study without asking tough questions. She went for good grades, status, and approval.

    So, she just parrots standard PC crap.

    I see more Asians in journalism and think tanks, but it is so different from Jewish rise in same fields in 20th century.

    Jews challenged the prevailing Narrative and established a new one, for good or for ill.

    With Asians, it's just doggy tricks. Zero originality, just Red-Guard-like adherence to the prevailing Narrative already installed by Jews and homos.

    So, we got two seoul bros and one 'we wuz zhang' sistah.

    “With Asians, it’s just doggy tricks. Zero originality,”

    Asian Americans lack originality because they are the least creative racial group in America. Asian Americans even suck at cultural appropriating Black culture. Asian Americans love Hip Hop but their community has produced no Asian version of Kanye West and Lil Wayne for example.

    Asian Americans love the NBA but their community has produced no Asian version of LeBron James and Stephen Curry.

    When Asian Americans appropriate Black culture they produce vastly inferior results. MC Jin and Jeremy Lin is the best they can do, pathetic really.

    Who is the Asian American community’s version of Denzel Washington and Samuel L. Jackson? John Cho from Harold & Kumar and George Takei. What a joke.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Best Hollywood movie stars in recent years from more obscure racial / ethnic groups:

    American Indian - Graham Greene (e.g., stole "Maverick" from Mel Gibson, Jodie Foster, and James Garner -- not the English Catholic novelist)

    Maori - Cliff Curtis

    Samoan - The Rock

    Mexican-American - The best guy in his prime right now is Michael Pena

    Arab-American - Tony Shalhoub; Vince Vaughn is 1/4th Lebanese

    Puerto Ricans -- Benicio Del Toro

    Armenian-Americans: Oddly, there don't seem to be many at present. Among actresses, Cher is half Armenian and won an Oscar, but that was three decades ago

    Gypsies -- You see a lot of different claims for actors being part Roma, most notably Charlie Chaplin. Maybe the most plausible is that the late Bob Hoskins was 1/4th Gypsy

    Irish Travelers -- Don't see anybody I've heard of.

    Parsi -- Don't know of any current ones. In the past, perhaps Vivien Leigh? She was born in Darjeeling in the foothills of Himalayas north of Calcutta: her maternal grandfather had the unusual name of Yackjee:

    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/09/vivien-leigh-again.php

    Note: Looking at this list, I see that I'm biased toward actors over actresses, and biased toward character actors who become semi-stars through force of personality.

    , @Steve Sailer
    Best Hollywood movie stars in recent years from more obscure racial / ethnic groups:

    American Indian - Graham Greene (e.g., stole "Maverick" from Mel Gibson, Jodie Foster, and James Garner -- not the English Catholic novelist)

    Maori - Cliff Curtis

    Samoan - The Rock

    Mexican-American - The best guy in his prime right now is Michael Pena

    Arab-American - Tony Shalhoub; Vince Vaughn is 1/4th Lebanese

    Puerto Ricans -- Benicio Del Toro

    Armenian-Americans: Oddly, there don't seem to be many at present. Among actresses, Cher is half Armenian and won an Oscar, but that was three decades ago

    Gypsies -- You see a lot of different claims for actors being part Roma, most notably Charlie Chaplin. Maybe the most plausible is that the late Bob Hoskins was 1/4th Gypsy

    Irish Travelers -- Don't see anybody I've heard of.

    Parsi -- Don't know of any current ones. In the past, perhaps Vivien Leigh? She was born in Darjeeling in the foothills of Himalayas north of Calcutta: her maternal grandfather had the unusual name of Yackjee:

    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/09/vivien-leigh-again.php

    Note: Looking at this list, I see that I'm biased toward actors over actresses, and biased toward character actors who become semi-stars through force of personality.

    , @NOTA
    I don't think Japanese popular culture and art supports the idea that East Asians can't be creative or innovative.
  78. > Sarah Zhang

    man, those f**king AngloZionists!

    Opinionator > I read somewhere that Israel is considering a DNA test to determine who is really “jewish”.

    Dude, NOW you’re peeing into the Rabbinical Court’s ricebowl. Can you hold off just a few moments while I go get a bag of popcorn and a comfortable chair?

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  79. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    “Obviously, there’s a fair amount of genetic diversity in humans, so 0.1% must be pretty important.”

    Since humans share 98.8% of their DNA with chimpanzees (see text in bold below), it suggests that a fairly small amount of DNA makes a pretty big difference.

    According to Smithsonian Institute,

    While the genetic difference between individual humans today is minuscule – about 0.1%, on average – study of the same aspects of the chimpanzee genome indicates a difference of about 1.2%. The bonobo (Pan paniscus), which is the close cousin of chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes), differs from humans to the same degree. The DNA difference with gorillas, another of the African apes, is about 1.6%. Most importantly, chimpanzees, bonobos, and humans all show this same amount of difference from gorillas. A difference of 3.1% distinguishes us and the African apes from the Asian great ape, the orangutan. How do the monkeys stack up? All of the great apes and humans differ from rhesus monkeys, for example, by about 7% in their DNA.

    Geneticists have come up with a variety of ways of calculating the percentages, which give different impressions about how similar chimpanzees and humans are. The 1.2% chimp-human distinction, for example, involves a measurement of only substitutions in the base building blocks of those genes that chimpanzees and humans share. A comparison of the entire genome, however, indicates that segments of DNA have also been deleted, duplicated over and over, or inserted from one part of the genome into another. When these differences are counted, there is an additional 4 to 5% distinction between the human and chimpanzee genomes.

    http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics

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  80. @Anonymous
    Sarah is wrong.

    By the logic Sarah uses, I guess we shouldn't consider there to be much difference either between a human and a chimpanzee, since the difference there is only ~1.2% or so.

    1% of the genome is significant. 0.1% is significant.

    If you want to see just how much, take a look at any one of a wide number of hereditary diseases. These often are the result of only a single gene mutated. In fact, many are the result of a single nucleotide changed (out of 3 billion or so in the human genome). That's how much of an impact 0.000000033% difference in the genome can have.

    She probably doesn’t see much difference between a human and chimp and wouldn’t object if a human wanted to a marry a chimp. Don’t think you can ever make up a position that is too extreme for a leftist academic to take.

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  81. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Jo Phelan, a sociologist recently retired from Columbia, has devised studies seeing how simply reading a news article about racial differences in genetic risk for heart attacks reinforces the belief that whites and African Americans are essentially different.

    I can very often tell a person’s race even if I can only see the back of them or a partial side view just by the way they walk or their overall body type. It surprises me how often I’m correct.

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  82. Michelle Rodriquez on learning she’s just another white Hollywood movie star.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Michelle Rodriquez on learning she’s just another white Hollywood movie star."

    Michelle Rodriguez has 23 percent Sub Saharan African DNA.
    http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/03/22/michelle-rodriguez-traces-family-roots-in-pbs-series.html

    Would Stormfront welcome Michelle Rodriguez with open arms into the White Nordic Aryan race?

  83. @Mr. Anon
    "Does Steve Sailer?"

    I wasn't aware that was his job, or even his responsibility.

    Is it The Atlantic’s?

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "Is it The Atlantic’s?"

    They probably do view it as such.

  84. The great thing about today versus three years ago is that today, when some thirty-ish year old purveyor of leftist truth (with their thirty-ish years of insight and wisdom) makes their case for the establishment position through a well known establishment publication…less and less people are listening.

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  85. @Mr. Anon
    Along these lines, from WaPo:

    23 and me in the classroom

    Might not these tests backfire, as people come to realize that the results of the DNA test accords pretty well with the way that people self-identify or identify others?

    Might not these tests backfire, as people come to realize that the results of the DNA test accords pretty well with the way that people self-identify or identify others?

    I don’t see why it couldn’t achieve the goals of both parties (the subject of the article, who seeks greater understanding among races, and readers here who seek greater understanding full stop). The only losers would be those promoting the ignorance.

    Read More
  86. That two races are 0.1% or even 0.001% genetically different is irrelevant. It all depends on which gene or genes are different.

    As geneticist Wendy Chung discovered, one genetic “alphabet letter” in 3 billion can cause profound developmental problems. Wendy Chung studied a severely autistic girl named Nika. Nika was unable to speak and suffered frequent seizures. Chung compared all 3 billion of Nika’s genes to Nika’s parents’ genes and found that Nika’s genome contained one genetic error. Nika — severely autistic and unable to speak — was genetically 0.00000003% different from normal.

    If you click “Listen” on the following web page, the key fact related to Nika can be heard at 6:00.

    http://www.npr.org/2014/09/12/342135819/could-genetics-hold-the-answer-to-curing-autism

    Read More
    • Replies: @The most deplorable one

    Wendy Chung studied a severely autistic girl named Nika. Nika was unable to speak and suffered frequent seizures. Chung compared all 3 billion of Nika’s genes to Nika’s parents’ genes and found that Nika’s genome contained one genetic error. Nika — severely autistic and unable to speak — was genetically 0.00000003% different from normal.
     
    They don't call me the most deplorable one for nothing.

    You are talking about the wrong thing there. You probably mean base pairs. It is widely claimed that humans have anywhere from 20,000 or so genes up to no more than 100,000.
    , @Bugg
    If race is a human construct and really irrelevant since we only .1% different, let's offer the Left the logical end to this process; a race free world in full. End all racial set asides, a complete and total ban on all affirmative action programs . No reparations or any other such nonsense.Let's have the 14th Amendment mean what it says; everyone equal under the law for ever more. How about it?
  87. @Anon
    One thing for sure, Asian chicks sure see RACE AND BIOLOGY when they go hunting for mates.

    Just ask Amy Chua.

    “One thing for sure, Asian chicks sure see RACE AND BIOLOGY when they go hunting for mates.

    Just ask Amy Chua.”

    Asian chicks sure do see race and biology when they go hunting for mates. Hence why for example there exists all Asian speeding dating events in cities like San Francisco and Los Angeles, no Non Asians allowed.

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  88. @anonymous
    You are correct. She is misconstruing the results of f-statistics applied in population genetics, which attempt to quantify what you might call 'statistical inbreeding'. The 'chestnut' should read something like "an African man might statistically be as genetically isolated from another African man as *Asians* are from *Africans*." With f-statistics, you are drawing circles around groups and comparing inbreeding coefficients *within* vs. *among.*

    (And IMO the results really don't support her POV, but anyway...)

    If you are interested in this kind of thing (and it is pretty cool...), a handful of useful google-able buzzwords might include Wahlund effect, fixation index, population substructure, inbreeding coefficients, and Sewall Wright.

    Thanks for the information! I am much obliged.

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  89. @Steve Sailer
    Similarly, if you walk from the English Channel to Korea, you don't cross any supersharp borders between Europeans and East Asians. On the other hand, there aren't that many people in the middle of Eurasia, so most people are at one end or the other and are pretty distinctive looking.

    “there aren’t that many people in the middle of Eurasia”

    I have no idea how many people were in Central Asia thousands of years ago when the races were being sorted out. It may be that stone age technology required a more even distribution of people, I don’t know. Population spurts led to various nomadic invasions. Turks, Mongols, and Tibetans for example. So Central Asia may have been more populated than you are assuming. Places like Egypt and Ethiopia seem to have always been very populous. So there may have been considerable interbreeding between Europe, East Asian and Africa. Look at Martin Skhreli. To me he has very Ottoman or Turkish features, his family is Balkan/Albanian.

    Exponential growth could mean much of the large population increases in Europe, China or Nigeria are very recent.

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  90. @Malcolm X-Lax
    Michelle Rodriquez on learning she's just another white Hollywood movie star.

    https://twitter.com/JohnRiversX4/status/814659335297105924

    “Michelle Rodriquez on learning she’s just another white Hollywood movie star.”

    Michelle Rodriguez has 23 percent Sub Saharan African DNA.

    http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/03/22/michelle-rodriguez-traces-family-roots-in-pbs-series.html

    Would Stormfront welcome Michelle Rodriguez with open arms into the White Nordic Aryan race?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    I don't know. I guess not? I've never been on the site. My comment was meant to be taken tongue in cheek, not literally.
  91. @Hepp
    The 0.1% canard is so fricking stupid it never stops bothering me. Apparently, 0.1% difference is enough that there's no physical overlap between Koreans, Nigerians and Swedes. On physically appearance there isn't even overlapping bell curves. So why can't 0.1% of variation mean that there are substantial differences in average intelligence and personality? What % variation between races would indicate IQ differences? 0.4%? 6.2%?

    Another childless woman talking nonsense.

    What is the percentage genetic difference between a pit bull and a shih tzu? Probably a hell of a lot less than 0.1% but I wouldn’t let a pit bull give my baby kisses…

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  92. @Lot
    Based on the haircut, jawline, and hectoring tone of the article, a mate in the normal sense may not be what the author is after.

    Based on the haircut, jawline, and hectoring tone of the article, a mate in the normal sense may not be what the author is after.

    Zhang no wanta some wang.

    In the world of dykedom, I would think that the femmy lesbians would be the ones in demand due to lesbians being female bodies with male brains/drives. (Much like the homosexual world is apparently a sea of bottoms looking for a top.)

    It probably sucks extra for an East Asian lesbian. To a femmy lesbian, the butch East Asian lesbian is likely as appealing as the East Asian male. This would add to Zhang’s hate against the so-called white male patriarchy. White men are the alphas according to the dating sites, and this may add fuel to the fire for her, being aced out by white men and even butch white women.

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    • Replies: @Bill
    I don't think lesbians and gays are analogous in the way you want them to be. The fact that lesbians are very frequently ugly and gay men have a pretty typical distribution of attractiveness is tip-off #1.
    , @Jefferson
    "It probably sucks extra for an East Asian lesbian. To a femmy lesbian, the butch East Asian lesbian is likely as appealing as the East Asian male. This would add to Zhang’s hate against the so-called white male patriarchy."

    Sarah Zhang doesn't have to be a Lesbian to hate White men. The vast majority of Heterosexual Asian American women in general hate White men. Meeting an Asian American woman who is not a Social Justice Warrior is like meeting a green eyed Black person. They exist, but they are not common.
  93. The Left’s religion does not allow them to believe this. Their religion is anti-science.

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  94. If Ms. Zhang needs an organ transplant we will see how quickly she believes in race.

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  95. @dearieme
    “an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.”

    I've noticed a tendency to mislead, presumably deliberately, on matters pertaining to Africans by silently confusing the matter of (i) black peoples from south of the Sahara with (ii) the swarthy white peoples who live north of that desert, and (iii) the peoples who live in the Horn of Africa i.e. roughly east of that desert.

    I dare say that there are examples of (ii) who are more closely related to SW Asians than to (i).

    In general though this statement is so disingenuous as to be completely meaningless. Most charitably, you might construe this statement to mean something like: “For most SNPs and other variants there are population level differences where the same variants occur in all human populations, but at different frequencies. Therefore, a situation is possible where an Asian man could share more variants with a black man than with another randomly selected black man.”

    But of course, this is total non-sense. It might be possible, with a lot of time and money and CRISPR, to contrive a situation where you had a black man and an Asian man who shared more variants than a random third party African. But of course there are many variants which are private to one race and not the other. For instance all of the variants that came from admixture with archaic human species that happened outside of Africa. Those private variants or variants with drastically different allele frequencies in populations are presumably the ones with the most effect on forming what we perceive as different races, since variants that change races’ appearance come up as the top hits in detecting recent evolution . Also, even though for any individual variant there may be a lot of overlap in the sense that both the major and minor frequency alleles may be relatively common in both Africans and Asians, that ignores the fact that over the many millions of variants in the human genome there is a tremendous amount of structure to the differences.

    So, yes, it is in principle possible that someone with pure Asian ancestry could be genetically “closer” to an African in the sense of having a genome whose sequence is closer to the African A than African A is to African B, in practice this is probably on the order of a trillion to one (actually, probably trillions of times less likely than a trillion to one since we’re talking about millions of individual variants). This is particularly unlikely if African A and African B are from the same or similar populations. Also, even if this happened, it seems likely that the fact that the Africans would covary on many of the most heavily selected alleles would mean that you could still identify them as looking and being more similar to one another than to the Asian.

    Frankly the easiest way for an African to be more related to an Asian than to another African is to have an Asian parent a la Tiger Woods or Danny Brown.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I could see an argument that, say, Dallas Cowboy middle linebacker Dat Nguyen, who was 2nd team all pro in his best season of 2003, was phenotypically more like, say, Chicago Bears middle linebackers Mike Singletary (black) and Dick Butkus (white) than he was like the average Vietnamese.

    There are so few East Asian NFL players that they sort of have to be compared to guys of other races. But with, say, black quarterbacks or white running backs or white NBA players there is a tendency to compare them to others of their race rather than perhaps more overall similar players of other races.

    For example, I naturally compare baseball player Mike Trout to Mickey Mantle, and looking him up, Mantle indeed turns out to be statistically most similar to Trout through his current age. But the next three most similar players, Ken Griffey Jr., Hank Aaron, and Frank Robinson, are black, but they don't come to mind as readily.

    , @Steve Sailer
    I could see an argument that, say, Dallas Cowboy middle linebacker Dat Nguyen, who was 2nd team all pro in his best season of 2003, was phenotypically more like, say, Chicago Bears middle linebackers Mike Singletary (black) and Dick Butkus (white) than he was like the average Vietnamese.

    There are so few East Asian NFL players that they sort of have to be compared to guys of other races. But with, say, black quarterbacks or white running backs or white NBA players there is a tendency to compare them to others of their race rather than perhaps more overall similar players of other races.

    For example, I naturally compare baseball player Mike Trout to Mickey Mantle, and looking him up, Mantle indeed turns out to be statistically most similar to Trout through his current age. But the next three most similar players, Ken Griffey Jr., Hank Aaron, and Frank Robinson, are black, but they don't come to mind as readily.

    , @The most deplorable one

    But of course there are many variants which are private to one race and not the other. For instance all of the variants that came from admixture with archaic human species that happened outside of Africa. Those private variants or variants with drastically different allele frequencies in populations are presumably the ones with the most effect on forming what we perceive as different races, since variants that change races’ appearance come up as the top hits in detecting recent evolution . Also, even though for any individual variant there may be a lot of overlap in the sense that both the major and minor frequency alleles may be relatively common in both Africans and Asians, that ignores the fact that over the many millions of variants in the human genome there is a tremendous amount of structure to the differences.
     
    It seems highly unlikely that the skin color differences between whites (caucasians), Asians and blacks were acquired from archaic species of Homo.
  96. Today an auto mechanic can dream that his grandson understand celestial mechanics and great granddaughter become a celestial mechanic.

    Here is a funny, insightful and entertaining educational animation by Kurzgesagt – In a Nutshell.

    `Genetic Engineering Will Change Everything Forever – CRISPR1`

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    • Replies: @Lot
    The fact that IQ is a zillion genes with very small effects will make an IQ boost be one of hardest things to improve in your kids with genetic engineering.

    We also will be able to produce normal IQ babies from low-IQ parents much sooner than we will be able to make high IQ babies from normal IQ parents.

    We will be making them bigger, better looking, and healthier long before we get designer babies with high IQs.

    One thing we'll see pretty early is NE Asian parents giving their sons brown hair and daughters blond hair. That is a really simple change.

    I wonder if the government of China will repress this as anti-nationalist and frivolous. I don't think Japan, South Korean, or Vietnam would.

  97. @TWS
    Closing the doors on the laughable pamphlet called the Atlantic would be a good start on ending worries about racism. A sure way to get people to notice something is to say, "sure science, medicine, and history still agree but we know that can't be right."

    Besides it doesn't matter what the Atlantic wants, the Chinese are going to keep finding those badthink ideas and applying them.

    Closing the doors on the laughable pamphlet called the Atlantic

    Give ‘em credit for remaining one of the last left-of-center sites to still tolerate comments, indeed to tolerate alt-rightish comments. In fact I notice that there aren’t many leftists commenting there at all anymore; it’s weird.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Would you or many others have characterized them as left-of-center ten or even five years ago? It seems it has become more cancer filled during Hussein's second term.
    , @poolside
    In fact I notice that there aren’t many leftists commenting there at all anymore; it’s weird.

    The progressives broke off and started their own invitation-only Disqus site where they can harangue each other over The Atlantic's articles without any pesky moderates or right-wingers interrupting.
  98. @D. K.
    I am told that I share half of my late father's DNA. Yet, I also am told that I share circa 99% of my DNA with any random chimpanzee found in Africa.

    You share, with your father, 50% of the DNA where your mother and father’s DNA differed. It’s thus 50% of that famous 1%. Obviously, you and your father share 100%, not 50%, of the DNA that codes for the development of lungs (as opposed to gills).

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    • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    To be totally accurate, if you are male, your mother contributed a little bit more than your father did ...
  99. @emjr
    Is it The Atlantic's?

    “Is it The Atlantic’s?”

    They probably do view it as such.

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    The existence and semi-legitimate nature of phora such as Stormfront, is a key ingredient in assisting the ADL and SPLC not look like the boy who cried wolf.

    Fred Phelps, founder of the Westboro Church, was one of the greatest allies the gay rights movement ever had.

    This is called "black propaganda"

    http://www.returnofkings.com/98632/how-the-fbi-infiltrates-movements-and-what-you-can-do-to-stop-them

    The trick for us is to neither appreciate or disavow the David Dukes of the world. Rather, just point our finger back at the CNNs giving oxygen to their fire.
  100. Fortunately the real biologists are not being dissuaded from understanding how differences in ancestry relate to differences in biology, despite the pablum that well-meaning liberals can sneak into editorials in Nature Genetics and the utter bullshit that a non-scientist can write in The Atlantic. For instance there was a whole flurry of papers in Cell this year about how Africans and Europeans differ in their innate immune response to pathogens, and how some of this appeared to be shaped by adaptive introgression of neanderthal variants, for example this paper and this one along with some others.

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  101. @Dr. X

    “In a sense, genetics is a modern version of what early scientists were doing in terms of their studies of skulls or blood type,” says Ann Morning, a sociologist at New York University. “We have a long history of turning to whatever we think is the most authoritative sense of knowledge and expecting to find race proved or demonstrated there.”
     

    Jo Phelan, a sociologist recently retired from Columbia, has devised studies seeing how simply reading a news article about racial differences in genetic risk for heart attacks reinforces the belief that whites and African Americans are essentially different.
     
    So, the article quotes two sociologists to refute the claims of genetic scientists. Anybody else see the disconnect here?

    Sociology is not a science. Frankly, I don't think it should even be accorded status as an academic discipline in the humanities. Sociology, along with Cultural Anthropology, are the two academic majors most infected with subjective bullshit and Cultural Marxism.

    Would any respectable publication quote a sociologist to refute an astronomer?A physicist? A geologist? "Astronomers believe that the Earth orbits the Sun, but sociologists contend that the Igbo people do not adhere to this belief."

    Well, why in hell would they quote sociologists to critique the science of genetics, which has been known by animal breeders for probably the last three or four millenia? Recent advances in mapping of the genome has created empirical, scientific data. There are genetic tests available that can prove or disprove the genetic heritability of many diseases, and DNA tests that can absolutely identify individuals suspected of crimes. Sociology is not a science because it has no objective standards, and no ability to conduct tests to prove or disprove hypotheses.

    Look at the mileage Bill Nye and deGrasse have gotten being leftist rubberstampers.

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  102. On a color wheel, there is no specific point where blue turns into green, so colors don’t exist.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "On a color wheel, there is no specific point where blue turns into green, so colors don’t exist."

    There are no end of such examples that point out the idiocy of the "race doesn't exist" line.

    Temperature is a continuous scale, so there is no meaningful difference between hot and cold, between boiling water and freezing water.

    The atmosphere has no clear boundary, so there is no meaningful distinction to be made between the surface of the Earth and deep space.
  103. @Mark Caplan
    That two races are 0.1% or even 0.001% genetically different is irrelevant. It all depends on which gene or genes are different.

    As geneticist Wendy Chung discovered, one genetic "alphabet letter" in 3 billion can cause profound developmental problems. Wendy Chung studied a severely autistic girl named Nika. Nika was unable to speak and suffered frequent seizures. Chung compared all 3 billion of Nika's genes to Nika's parents' genes and found that Nika's genome contained one genetic error. Nika -- severely autistic and unable to speak -- was genetically 0.00000003% different from normal.

    If you click "Listen" on the following web page, the key fact related to Nika can be heard at 6:00.
    http://www.npr.org/2014/09/12/342135819/could-genetics-hold-the-answer-to-curing-autism

    Wendy Chung studied a severely autistic girl named Nika. Nika was unable to speak and suffered frequent seizures. Chung compared all 3 billion of Nika’s genes to Nika’s parents’ genes and found that Nika’s genome contained one genetic error. Nika — severely autistic and unable to speak — was genetically 0.00000003% different from normal.

    They don’t call me the most deplorable one for nothing.

    You are talking about the wrong thing there. You probably mean base pairs. It is widely claimed that humans have anywhere from 20,000 or so genes up to no more than 100,000.

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  104. @415 reasons
    In general though this statement is so disingenuous as to be completely meaningless. Most charitably, you might construe this statement to mean something like: "For most SNPs and other variants there are population level differences where the same variants occur in all human populations, but at different frequencies. Therefore, a situation is possible where an Asian man could share more variants with a black man than with another randomly selected black man."

    But of course, this is total non-sense. It might be possible, with a lot of time and money and CRISPR, to contrive a situation where you had a black man and an Asian man who shared more variants than a random third party African. But of course there are many variants which are private to one race and not the other. For instance all of the variants that came from admixture with archaic human species that happened outside of Africa. Those private variants or variants with drastically different allele frequencies in populations are presumably the ones with the most effect on forming what we perceive as different races, since variants that change races' appearance come up as the top hits in detecting recent evolution . Also, even though for any individual variant there may be a lot of overlap in the sense that both the major and minor frequency alleles may be relatively common in both Africans and Asians, that ignores the fact that over the many millions of variants in the human genome there is a tremendous amount of structure to the differences.

    So, yes, it is in principle possible that someone with pure Asian ancestry could be genetically "closer" to an African in the sense of having a genome whose sequence is closer to the African A than African A is to African B, in practice this is probably on the order of a trillion to one (actually, probably trillions of times less likely than a trillion to one since we're talking about millions of individual variants). This is particularly unlikely if African A and African B are from the same or similar populations. Also, even if this happened, it seems likely that the fact that the Africans would covary on many of the most heavily selected alleles would mean that you could still identify them as looking and being more similar to one another than to the Asian.

    Frankly the easiest way for an African to be more related to an Asian than to another African is to have an Asian parent a la Tiger Woods or Danny Brown.

    I could see an argument that, say, Dallas Cowboy middle linebacker Dat Nguyen, who was 2nd team all pro in his best season of 2003, was phenotypically more like, say, Chicago Bears middle linebackers Mike Singletary (black) and Dick Butkus (white) than he was like the average Vietnamese.

    There are so few East Asian NFL players that they sort of have to be compared to guys of other races. But with, say, black quarterbacks or white running backs or white NBA players there is a tendency to compare them to others of their race rather than perhaps more overall similar players of other races.

    For example, I naturally compare baseball player Mike Trout to Mickey Mantle, and looking him up, Mantle indeed turns out to be statistically most similar to Trout through his current age. But the next three most similar players, Ken Griffey Jr., Hank Aaron, and Frank Robinson, are black, but they don’t come to mind as readily.

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  105. @International Jew
    You share, with your father, 50% of the DNA where your mother and father's DNA differed. It's thus 50% of that famous 1%. Obviously, you and your father share 100%, not 50%, of the DNA that codes for the development of lungs (as opposed to gills).

    To be totally accurate, if you are male, your mother contributed a little bit more than your father did …

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  106. Human genome =3,200 Mb or so I read.
    0.1%=3,200,000
    Three million is pretty big number.
    Or am I interpreting this wrong?

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  107. @415 reasons
    In general though this statement is so disingenuous as to be completely meaningless. Most charitably, you might construe this statement to mean something like: "For most SNPs and other variants there are population level differences where the same variants occur in all human populations, but at different frequencies. Therefore, a situation is possible where an Asian man could share more variants with a black man than with another randomly selected black man."

    But of course, this is total non-sense. It might be possible, with a lot of time and money and CRISPR, to contrive a situation where you had a black man and an Asian man who shared more variants than a random third party African. But of course there are many variants which are private to one race and not the other. For instance all of the variants that came from admixture with archaic human species that happened outside of Africa. Those private variants or variants with drastically different allele frequencies in populations are presumably the ones with the most effect on forming what we perceive as different races, since variants that change races' appearance come up as the top hits in detecting recent evolution . Also, even though for any individual variant there may be a lot of overlap in the sense that both the major and minor frequency alleles may be relatively common in both Africans and Asians, that ignores the fact that over the many millions of variants in the human genome there is a tremendous amount of structure to the differences.

    So, yes, it is in principle possible that someone with pure Asian ancestry could be genetically "closer" to an African in the sense of having a genome whose sequence is closer to the African A than African A is to African B, in practice this is probably on the order of a trillion to one (actually, probably trillions of times less likely than a trillion to one since we're talking about millions of individual variants). This is particularly unlikely if African A and African B are from the same or similar populations. Also, even if this happened, it seems likely that the fact that the Africans would covary on many of the most heavily selected alleles would mean that you could still identify them as looking and being more similar to one another than to the Asian.

    Frankly the easiest way for an African to be more related to an Asian than to another African is to have an Asian parent a la Tiger Woods or Danny Brown.

    I could see an argument that, say, Dallas Cowboy middle linebacker Dat Nguyen, who was 2nd team all pro in his best season of 2003, was phenotypically more like, say, Chicago Bears middle linebackers Mike Singletary (black) and Dick Butkus (white) than he was like the average Vietnamese.

    There are so few East Asian NFL players that they sort of have to be compared to guys of other races. But with, say, black quarterbacks or white running backs or white NBA players there is a tendency to compare them to others of their race rather than perhaps more overall similar players of other races.

    For example, I naturally compare baseball player Mike Trout to Mickey Mantle, and looking him up, Mantle indeed turns out to be statistically most similar to Trout through his current age. But the next three most similar players, Ken Griffey Jr., Hank Aaron, and Frank Robinson, are black, but they don’t come to mind as readily.

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  108. @415 reasons
    In general though this statement is so disingenuous as to be completely meaningless. Most charitably, you might construe this statement to mean something like: "For most SNPs and other variants there are population level differences where the same variants occur in all human populations, but at different frequencies. Therefore, a situation is possible where an Asian man could share more variants with a black man than with another randomly selected black man."

    But of course, this is total non-sense. It might be possible, with a lot of time and money and CRISPR, to contrive a situation where you had a black man and an Asian man who shared more variants than a random third party African. But of course there are many variants which are private to one race and not the other. For instance all of the variants that came from admixture with archaic human species that happened outside of Africa. Those private variants or variants with drastically different allele frequencies in populations are presumably the ones with the most effect on forming what we perceive as different races, since variants that change races' appearance come up as the top hits in detecting recent evolution . Also, even though for any individual variant there may be a lot of overlap in the sense that both the major and minor frequency alleles may be relatively common in both Africans and Asians, that ignores the fact that over the many millions of variants in the human genome there is a tremendous amount of structure to the differences.

    So, yes, it is in principle possible that someone with pure Asian ancestry could be genetically "closer" to an African in the sense of having a genome whose sequence is closer to the African A than African A is to African B, in practice this is probably on the order of a trillion to one (actually, probably trillions of times less likely than a trillion to one since we're talking about millions of individual variants). This is particularly unlikely if African A and African B are from the same or similar populations. Also, even if this happened, it seems likely that the fact that the Africans would covary on many of the most heavily selected alleles would mean that you could still identify them as looking and being more similar to one another than to the Asian.

    Frankly the easiest way for an African to be more related to an Asian than to another African is to have an Asian parent a la Tiger Woods or Danny Brown.

    But of course there are many variants which are private to one race and not the other. For instance all of the variants that came from admixture with archaic human species that happened outside of Africa. Those private variants or variants with drastically different allele frequencies in populations are presumably the ones with the most effect on forming what we perceive as different races, since variants that change races’ appearance come up as the top hits in detecting recent evolution . Also, even though for any individual variant there may be a lot of overlap in the sense that both the major and minor frequency alleles may be relatively common in both Africans and Asians, that ignores the fact that over the many millions of variants in the human genome there is a tremendous amount of structure to the differences.

    It seems highly unlikely that the skin color differences between whites (caucasians), Asians and blacks were acquired from archaic species of Homo.

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    • Replies: @415 reasons
    Agreed... I was just giving an example of how variants can be at very high prevalence in one population and very low prevalence in another. For example, the variants that came in from Neanderthals after early modern humans left Africa are totally private to Asian and European lineages of humans.

    Another way that a variant can be at drastically different frequencies is due to strong evolutionary pressure. In the case of genes affecting skin color, these seem to have risen to very high prevalence in Europeans from variants that are not common in ancestral populations. This happened due to strong selective pressure and this is detectable when you look for variants that show evidence of rapid evolution like in the Science paper I linked.

  109. @Mark Caplan
    That two races are 0.1% or even 0.001% genetically different is irrelevant. It all depends on which gene or genes are different.

    As geneticist Wendy Chung discovered, one genetic "alphabet letter" in 3 billion can cause profound developmental problems. Wendy Chung studied a severely autistic girl named Nika. Nika was unable to speak and suffered frequent seizures. Chung compared all 3 billion of Nika's genes to Nika's parents' genes and found that Nika's genome contained one genetic error. Nika -- severely autistic and unable to speak -- was genetically 0.00000003% different from normal.

    If you click "Listen" on the following web page, the key fact related to Nika can be heard at 6:00.
    http://www.npr.org/2014/09/12/342135819/could-genetics-hold-the-answer-to-curing-autism

    If race is a human construct and really irrelevant since we only .1% different, let’s offer the Left the logical end to this process; a race free world in full. End all racial set asides, a complete and total ban on all affirmative action programs . No reparations or any other such nonsense.Let’s have the 14th Amendment mean what it says; everyone equal under the law for ever more. How about it?

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "If race is a human construct and really irrelevant since we only .1% different, let’s offer the Left the logical end to this process; a race free world in full. End all racial set asides, a complete and total ban on all affirmative action programs . No reparations or any other such nonsense.Let’s have the 14th Amendment mean what it says; everyone equal under the law for ever more. How about it?"

    The irony is that the people who say race does not exist are the least color blind people you will ever meet. The race does not exist crowd are the biggest advocates of hardcore racial identity politics that Balkanizes the nation rather than unites the nation. It's similar to the irony that some of the biggest advocates for mass Muslim immigration into Western countries are Lesbians like Rosie O'Donnell and Rachel Maddow for example.

    My theory is Lesbians can culturally relate to Islam's culture of beating up women. Remember physical spousal abuse is way more common in the Lesbian community than it is in the Nonblack and Non Muslim Heterosexual community. It's the dirty little secret that the mainstream media doesn't want you to know.
    , @Kyle McKenna
    It's a major thing separating knee-jerk lefties from us deplorable alt-right types. We believe all men are not created equal, but should be treated as equals before the law. They believe all people are created equal, but should be treated unequally by the law.
  110. If race and Whiteness does not exist than Leftists should stop referring to George Zimmerman as White. Leftists should just refer to him as a Human Being. Leftists should practice what they preach.

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  111. @The most deplorable one

    But of course there are many variants which are private to one race and not the other. For instance all of the variants that came from admixture with archaic human species that happened outside of Africa. Those private variants or variants with drastically different allele frequencies in populations are presumably the ones with the most effect on forming what we perceive as different races, since variants that change races’ appearance come up as the top hits in detecting recent evolution . Also, even though for any individual variant there may be a lot of overlap in the sense that both the major and minor frequency alleles may be relatively common in both Africans and Asians, that ignores the fact that over the many millions of variants in the human genome there is a tremendous amount of structure to the differences.
     
    It seems highly unlikely that the skin color differences between whites (caucasians), Asians and blacks were acquired from archaic species of Homo.

    Agreed… I was just giving an example of how variants can be at very high prevalence in one population and very low prevalence in another. For example, the variants that came in from Neanderthals after early modern humans left Africa are totally private to Asian and European lineages of humans.

    Another way that a variant can be at drastically different frequencies is due to strong evolutionary pressure. In the case of genes affecting skin color, these seem to have risen to very high prevalence in Europeans from variants that are not common in ancestral populations. This happened due to strong selective pressure and this is detectable when you look for variants that show evidence of rapid evolution like in the Science paper I linked.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    For example, the variants that came in from Neanderthals after early modern humans left Africa are totally private to Asian and European lineages of humans.

    This helps bring my earlier question into better relief. If this Neanderthal DNA is 3-5 percent of Euro and Asian DNA, and is totally exclusive to it, how can Euro and Asian DNA differ from African by only 0.1 percent?
  112. @Polynices
    I wonder if she's actually that stupid to spout such ignorant garbage or if she's just lying on purpose for ideological reasons. The "race isn't real" position is so transcendently dumb that it's amazing to think that she might really mean it. Who would tell such outrageous lies intentionally?

    I just can't wrap my head around it.

    SJW–Genetics is racist, because it notices the differences between different groups of people, known as races. Yes, it is, because those differences are rather large and significant. Any other stupid questions?

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  113. The obvious analogy for races of humans is to breeds of horses or dogs or chickens or whatever.

    All dogs are clearly the same species, all can interbreed, all share a significant (99.9%+) portion of DNA. Yet nobody denies that different breeds have different appearances, characteristics, temperaments & behaviors.

    And everyone can agree that the fact that there are mutts & hybrids & very closely related breeds with fuzzy boundaries does not change any of that.

    In the case of dogs, these breeds were created in a relatively short time by deliberate isolation & selective breeding for desired traits. In humans, these races were created over a longer time by accidental geographic isolation & Darwinian selection for traits that gave survival or reproductive advantages. But it was obviously more or less the same process.

    Whenever I’ve made that analogy with a race-denier, I’ve never heard anyone give an explanation why it isn’t valid.

    Usually they just mentally short-circuit & say that”People aren’t dogs!”

    But IS there a substantial difference between animal breeds/sub-species & human races?

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  114. What I find most amusing about the article is the writer is apparently of Chinese ancestry and there is no group more convinced that they are genetically (and culturally) superior than are the Chinese. The Chinese would be insulted if she would write in a Chinese paper about how they are closely linked with Africans whom some Chinese refer to as “farm animals.”

    But we aren’t supposed to think about that.

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  115. Why did the cretinous Ms. Zhang decide that she would target the intellectual midgets at Stormfront, rather than, say, Steve or more generally Unz.com?

    Answer: because, for all her “education”, she can defeat only strawmen.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Why did the cretinous Ms. Zhang decide that she would target the intellectual midgets at Stormfront, rather than, say, Steve or more generally Unz.com?

    Answer: because, for all her “education”, she can defeat only strawmen.
     
    No, she would be routed at Stormfront. There are a lot of two-digit IQ-ers at Stormfront but also enough smart folks to refute her six ways to Sunday.

    She would never dare go there to debate for the same reason the US women's soccer team would never play a men's college team. The danger of humiliation is too great.
  116. So Stormfront is now officially an alt-right site? *facepalm*

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    And Milo is a white nationalist or even supremacist now, haven't you heard? twitter.com/bookschicago/status/814544045825474561
    , @Daniel Chieh
    My dog is alt-right.
    , @Jefferson
    "So Stormfront is now officially an alt-right site? *facepalm*"

    What exactly are the ideological differences between the Alt-Right and Stormfront? Do most people on the Alt-Right not recite the 14 words?
    , @SFG
    Yeah, alt-right used to mean a wider range of things in, say, the Lew Rockwell or Mencius Moldbug era than it does now.
    , @Pericles
    Keep it simple. If someone asks, tell them "No ... I don't think so."
  117. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    putting that 0.1% thing into context:

    - humans and chimpanzees only differ by ~3% of genes, so that 0.1% is 1/30th the difference between a human and a chimpanzee.

    - humans and the last eukaryotic common ancestor differ by ~50% of genes; that 0.1% is 1/500th the difference between a human and (say) a sponge.

    is that so insignificant? this seems like a new logical fallacy in our quantified era, akin to appeal to authority. appeal to order-of-magnitude?

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  118. @Jefferson
    "Michelle Rodriquez on learning she’s just another white Hollywood movie star."

    Michelle Rodriguez has 23 percent Sub Saharan African DNA.
    http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/03/22/michelle-rodriguez-traces-family-roots-in-pbs-series.html

    Would Stormfront welcome Michelle Rodriguez with open arms into the White Nordic Aryan race?

    I don’t know. I guess not? I’ve never been on the site. My comment was meant to be taken tongue in cheek, not literally.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "I don’t know. I guess not?"

    Stormfront would not even accept quarter Japanese Dean Cain as White , let alone someone who is almost a quarter Sub Saharan African like Michelle Rodriguez.

    Dean Cain's 1/8 Japanese son would not be accepted as White either by Stormfront.

  119. @415 reasons
    Agreed... I was just giving an example of how variants can be at very high prevalence in one population and very low prevalence in another. For example, the variants that came in from Neanderthals after early modern humans left Africa are totally private to Asian and European lineages of humans.

    Another way that a variant can be at drastically different frequencies is due to strong evolutionary pressure. In the case of genes affecting skin color, these seem to have risen to very high prevalence in Europeans from variants that are not common in ancestral populations. This happened due to strong selective pressure and this is detectable when you look for variants that show evidence of rapid evolution like in the Science paper I linked.

    For example, the variants that came in from Neanderthals after early modern humans left Africa are totally private to Asian and European lineages of humans.

    This helps bring my earlier question into better relief. If this Neanderthal DNA is 3-5 percent of Euro and Asian DNA, and is totally exclusive to it, how can Euro and Asian DNA differ from African by only 0.1 percent?

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    • Replies: @415 reasons
    Because Neanderthals were mostly genetically identical to humans as well. Imagine a book that accumulates random typos, but only in words that are over 10 letters long. You could infer if long stretches were cut and pasted from one version to another, even if most of the text was completely identical in meaning and mostly didn't have typos.
    , @OLD JEW
    One percent of our DNA differs from Chimpanzees. Call this "Human DNA" . The Neanderthal contribution is 3% to 5% from the "Human DNA" not from the total DNA. The difference between the
    Asian DNA and the African DNA of 0.1 percent is only one tenth of the "Human DNA".
    The difference between Neanderthals and us modern humans is about two tenth of the "Human DNA" .
    We are way closer to Neanderthals than to Chimpanzees.
  120. Is it Stormfront’s position that white Americans, Australians, etc need to go back to Europe and leave colonial territories to the indigenous? I would be surprised.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Non sequitur
    , @Lurker
    No idea what the Stormfront position is.


    The geographical entities of America and Australia were originally settled by non-Europeans. But the nations of the US and Australia, the places other people actually want to settle in, were founded by Europeans.
  121. @27 year old
    We grow our own kale

    Collard Greens are superior

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    • Replies: @Anonym
    Collard Greens are superior

    Don't overlook watermelon and fried chicken
  122. @D. K.
    I am told that I share half of my late father's DNA. Yet, I also am told that I share circa 99% of my DNA with any random chimpanzee found in Africa.

    You share 50% of your father’s alleles, and nearly 100% of his genes. For any genes that you and a chimp have in common, you’re certain to have no alleles in common.

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  123. @TGGP
    Is it Stormfront's position that white Americans, Australians, etc need to go back to Europe and leave colonial territories to the indigenous? I would be surprised.

    Non sequitur

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  124. If race exists, how would we define it using DNA?

    By the list of alleles that you must have and the list of alleles that you may not have? Nobody has done it, I think.

    How many genes (alleles) must be changed in pure blood Nigerian to change him into a pure blood Icelander?

    We have 20,000 protein coding genes. Each one may come in several variants (alleles), right?

    0.1% is only 20 genes. It can’t be right.

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  125. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Mr. Blank
    So Stormfront is now officially an alt-right site? *facepalm*

    And Milo is a white nationalist or even supremacist now, haven’t you heard? twitter.com/bookschicago/status/814544045825474561

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "And Milo is a white nationalist or even supremacist now, haven’t you heard?"

    Milo Yiannopoulos is what Gavin McInnes would call a Western Chauvinist. Milo is a proud boy who believes the West is the best.
  126. an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African

    This insanity never seems to get killed off.

    How? How can it be true in any real sense?

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Think of out-of-phase but partially overlapping bell curves. You could have a position in one that is identical to a position in the other, but obviously farther away from the tail position in the same population group.

    Now apply that to 3- or 4-D curves in order to better approximate the complexity of a genome.

  127. @TGGP
    Is it Stormfront's position that white Americans, Australians, etc need to go back to Europe and leave colonial territories to the indigenous? I would be surprised.

    No idea what the Stormfront position is.

    The geographical entities of America and Australia were originally settled by non-Europeans. But the nations of the US and Australia, the places other people actually want to settle in, were founded by Europeans.

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  128. @dearieme
    "all of the genetic diversity in humans comprises just 0.1 percent of the human genome": and there was me, thinking it was about 0.3%.

    Anyway, the 0.1 %/0.3% is obviously so small that it matters not a whit. The difference, for instance between a man and a woman - of no significance. Between people who can thrive at high altitude and those who can't - of no importance. Et bloody cetera. Tedious lies endlessly repeated.

    “all of the genetic diversity in humans comprises just 0.1 percent of the human genome”

    Willful stupidity, a court-matialable offense, wrt to nonlinearity on display here.

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  129. These “genetics will always be abused by the right” folks fail to mention that blank slate theory can be equally brutal and extreme. Blank slaters of extreme persuasions are quite happy to throw gays off buildings, force physical weaklings to break rocks in gulags, and starve to death upwardly mobile peasants.

    It would be better if liberals focused more on not messing up the economy. When people need a wheel barrow of money to pay for a loaf of bread they are more likely to start doing brutal extreme stuff like throwing people they don’t like in concentration camps.

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  130. Why did the cretinous Ms. Zhang decide that she would target the intellectual midgets at Stormfront, rather than, say, Steve or more generally Unz.com?

    Yeah, that is going to be a heckuva sight when someone decides to tangle w/iSteve and leaves their comments section open and fairly moderated.

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  131. We can thank the diversity supremacists who promoted racial quotas because of the alleged differences that demographics make.

    Black, women, LGBT, “voices” are supposed to be inherently different because of their demographic differences. That political con game has convinced the general public of substantive differences.

    In reality, diversity was invented as an excuse to rig the hiring process so that institutions didn’t have to be fair, just look statistically fair. It turned out that being fair to every individual often times meant some demographic groups were underrepresented. “Diversity” was the scam that justified treating people differently to purchase litigation insurance.

    So now Stormfront and the public has bought into the diversity scam and believe in racial stereotyping. Thanks cowardly institutions! You shall reap what has been sown.

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  132. @Lurker

    an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African
     
    This insanity never seems to get killed off.

    How? How can it be true in any real sense?

    Think of out-of-phase but partially overlapping bell curves. You could have a position in one that is identical to a position in the other, but obviously farther away from the tail position in the same population group.

    Now apply that to 3- or 4-D curves in order to better approximate the complexity of a genome.

    Read More
  133. @Mr. Blank
    So Stormfront is now officially an alt-right site? *facepalm*

    “So Stormfront is now officially an alt-right site? *facepalm*

    What exactly are the ideological differences between the Alt-Right and Stormfront? Do most people on the Alt-Right not recite the 14 words?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    At this point, any use of that term is a boost to the anti-Trump media and Richard Spencer both.

    The official Trump line straight from Bannon is now to completely reject the term.

    Let's stop using it completely, including debating its meaning.
    , @ben tillman

    “So Stormfront is now officially an alt-right site? *facepalm*”

    What exactly are the ideological differences between the Alt-Right and Stormfront? Do most people on the Alt-Right not recite the 14 words?
     
    I would hope that everyone on the alt-right is comfortable with the 14 words (as redundant as they may be). There's no principled objection to them.
    , @Mr. Anon
    "Do most people on the Alt-Right not recite the 14 words?"

    Given that the Alt-Right is a nebulous, ill-defined group of mostly anonymous people on the internet - who knows?
  134. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Race doesn’t exist, so what does it matter to Ms. Zhang? If race doesn’t exist, what would be the problem if we were all white? It’s all the same, right?

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  135. @Anonymous
    And Milo is a white nationalist or even supremacist now, haven't you heard? twitter.com/bookschicago/status/814544045825474561

    “And Milo is a white nationalist or even supremacist now, haven’t you heard?”

    Milo Yiannopoulos is what Gavin McInnes would call a Western Chauvinist. Milo is a proud boy who believes the West is the best.

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  136. @newrouter
    I'm sure:

    SARAH ZHANG

    Yes, clearly a westernized Chinese woman = Chinese scientists in China. Guaranteed China will develop genetic tech and know how.

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  137. @DevOps Dad
    Today an auto mechanic can dream that his grandson understand celestial mechanics and great granddaughter become a celestial mechanic.

    Here is a funny, insightful and entertaining educational animation by Kurzgesagt – In a Nutshell.

    `Genetic Engineering Will Change Everything Forever – CRISPR1`

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAhjPd4uNFY

    The fact that IQ is a zillion genes with very small effects will make an IQ boost be one of hardest things to improve in your kids with genetic engineering.

    We also will be able to produce normal IQ babies from low-IQ parents much sooner than we will be able to make high IQ babies from normal IQ parents.

    We will be making them bigger, better looking, and healthier long before we get designer babies with high IQs.

    One thing we’ll see pretty early is NE Asian parents giving their sons brown hair and daughters blond hair. That is a really simple change.

    I wonder if the government of China will repress this as anti-nationalist and frivolous. I don’t think Japan, South Korean, or Vietnam would.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "One thing we’ll see pretty early is NE Asian parents giving their sons brown hair and daughters blond hair. That is a really simple change."

    Why wouldn't they give their sons blond hair as well?
    , @Kyle McKenna

    We will be making them bigger, better looking, and healthier long before we get designer babies with high IQs.
     
    Better looking?? Good Lord, bring it on, and soon. If the vast multi-cultural third-world hordes currently being inflicted upon the western world are any indication, we need that fix yesterday.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    I don't think we will, to be honest. There's also a strong pressure to confirm, so I imagine that the first edits to appearance will be for anything that's plausibly deniable. Blonde hair is too much, but lighter skin and unusual eyes are possible since we do have minorities with very light skin and a more Caucasian variety of eye color.
  138. Since Trump and the Republicans will control the Department of Commerce which conducts the census, why don’t they, just to hear the identity politicians howl, remove all the divisive racial classifications from the census forms. Seems appropriate to me as the people most in favor of the endless bifurcation of groups maintain race doesn’t exist. And in truth it seems appropriate to me regardless.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    How is France's outlawing the collection of race-based data working out for France?
    , @jill
    obama moved control of the Census from the Commerce Department to the Executive Branch.
  139. I thought The Atlantic was a top-tier magazine of long pedigree. Why then is it so poorly copy-edited? Three examples:
    [1] The problem is not with the science per se, but with the set of an [sic] underlying assumptions about race that we always imprint on the latest science.
    [2] The trouble with the way we talk about race is that our biological differences are by degree rather [than] by category.
    [3] President Roosevelt decided to count Mexicans as white in that year’s census [in] order to shore up Mexican relations.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ben tillman
    No money.
    , @SFG
    That's not copyediting, they're selecting facts to fit their argument. Which every journal of opinion does. (Look at Breitbart.)

    You could definitely still support affirmative action if you believed in HBD--in fact it's almost necessary since racial differences are thus impossible to ameliorate without genetic engineering. But why drop to the fall-back position if they don't have to? Enough people believe that race does not exist, or at least pretend to.

    , @Jim Don Bob
    The Atlantic started downhill when its editor Micheal Kelly was killed in Iraq.

    Here's what he wrote about BJC: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1998/02/04/i-believe/ba59813d-a55d-4bb6-81ec-2454639354b5/?utm_term=.834594a977df
  140. @Jefferson
    "So Stormfront is now officially an alt-right site? *facepalm*"

    What exactly are the ideological differences between the Alt-Right and Stormfront? Do most people on the Alt-Right not recite the 14 words?

    At this point, any use of that term is a boost to the anti-Trump media and Richard Spencer both.

    The official Trump line straight from Bannon is now to completely reject the term.

    Let’s stop using it completely, including debating its meaning.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "At this point, any use of that term is a boost to the anti-Trump media and Richard Spencer both.

    The official Trump line straight from Bannon is now to completely reject the term.

    Let’s stop using it completely, including debating its meaning."

    You dodged my question, which basically means you do not see any ideological difference at all between the Alt-Right and Stormfront.

    There are bigger ideological differences between The Nation Of Islam and Black Lies Matter than there is between the Alt-Right and Stormfront.

    Where BLM and The NOI would clash with each other is on the issue of Homosexuality.

    What subject would the Alt-Right clash with Stormfront?

    , @Luke Ford
    Richard Spencer did nothing wrong.
    , @anon

    Let’s stop using it completely, including debating its meaning.
     
    Let's not.

    The critical point in the lethal poisoning of the West was Boas' blank slate lie.

    The respectable Right currently still bows to the media's enforcement of the Boasian lie and while that is true the Alt-Right is necessary.
  141. And to put it in perspective, all of the genetic diversity in humans comprises just 0.1 percent of the human genome.

    And we share 98.8% of the same genes with chimps. Why all the focus on the 1.2% genetic diversity?

    Read More
  142. @Mr. Anon
    "Is it The Atlantic’s?"

    They probably do view it as such.

    The existence and semi-legitimate nature of phora such as Stormfront, is a key ingredient in assisting the ADL and SPLC not look like the boy who cried wolf.

    Fred Phelps, founder of the Westboro Church, was one of the greatest allies the gay rights movement ever had.

    This is called “black propaganda”

    http://www.returnofkings.com/98632/how-the-fbi-infiltrates-movements-and-what-you-can-do-to-stop-them

    The trick for us is to neither appreciate or disavow the David Dukes of the world. Rather, just point our finger back at the CNNs giving oxygen to their fire.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    Yes, I agree. The Stormfront approach seems designed to be counterproductive - a roadmap to permanent exile in the wilderness. More recently, Richard Spencer seems to be allying with SF. I've seen people describe him as "the next David Duke" - as if that's a good thing. Duke is an irrelevancy, and has gone out of his way to make himself such.
  143. @Bugg
    If race is a human construct and really irrelevant since we only .1% different, let's offer the Left the logical end to this process; a race free world in full. End all racial set asides, a complete and total ban on all affirmative action programs . No reparations or any other such nonsense.Let's have the 14th Amendment mean what it says; everyone equal under the law for ever more. How about it?

    “If race is a human construct and really irrelevant since we only .1% different, let’s offer the Left the logical end to this process; a race free world in full. End all racial set asides, a complete and total ban on all affirmative action programs . No reparations or any other such nonsense.Let’s have the 14th Amendment mean what it says; everyone equal under the law for ever more. How about it?”

    The irony is that the people who say race does not exist are the least color blind people you will ever meet. The race does not exist crowd are the biggest advocates of hardcore racial identity politics that Balkanizes the nation rather than unites the nation. It’s similar to the irony that some of the biggest advocates for mass Muslim immigration into Western countries are Lesbians like Rosie O’Donnell and Rachel Maddow for example.

    My theory is Lesbians can culturally relate to Islam’s culture of beating up women. Remember physical spousal abuse is way more common in the Lesbian community than it is in the Nonblack and Non Muslim Heterosexual community. It’s the dirty little secret that the mainstream media doesn’t want you to know.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Remember physical spousal abuse is way more common in the Lesbian community than it is in the Nonblack and Non Muslim Heterosexual community. It’s the dirty little secret that the mainstream media doesn’t want you to know.
     
    Yep.
  144. @Lot
    The fact that IQ is a zillion genes with very small effects will make an IQ boost be one of hardest things to improve in your kids with genetic engineering.

    We also will be able to produce normal IQ babies from low-IQ parents much sooner than we will be able to make high IQ babies from normal IQ parents.

    We will be making them bigger, better looking, and healthier long before we get designer babies with high IQs.

    One thing we'll see pretty early is NE Asian parents giving their sons brown hair and daughters blond hair. That is a really simple change.

    I wonder if the government of China will repress this as anti-nationalist and frivolous. I don't think Japan, South Korean, or Vietnam would.

    “One thing we’ll see pretty early is NE Asian parents giving their sons brown hair and daughters blond hair. That is a really simple change.”

    Why wouldn’t they give their sons blond hair as well?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna

    Why wouldn’t they give their sons blond hair as well?
     
    Blond hair is almost universally desirable among females. For males it's a bit more of a troublesome marker, as it doesn't equate with virility as much as darker hair does. Don't tell DJT.
    , @Lot

    Why wouldn’t they give their sons blond hair as well?
     
    Just looking at the actual colors Asians die their hair. Women go blonde or brown, men go brown, anything lighter looks fay and unprofessional. For NE Asians, men have darker skins, so it looks really strange too.

    There is also that jet black with reddish shine thing, but I'm not sure any combination of genes can achieve that.
  145. @Lot
    At this point, any use of that term is a boost to the anti-Trump media and Richard Spencer both.

    The official Trump line straight from Bannon is now to completely reject the term.

    Let's stop using it completely, including debating its meaning.

    “At this point, any use of that term is a boost to the anti-Trump media and Richard Spencer both.

    The official Trump line straight from Bannon is now to completely reject the term.

    Let’s stop using it completely, including debating its meaning.”

    You dodged my question, which basically means you do not see any ideological difference at all between the Alt-Right and Stormfront.

    There are bigger ideological differences between The Nation Of Islam and Black Lies Matter than there is between the Alt-Right and Stormfront.

    Where BLM and The NOI would clash with each other is on the issue of Homosexuality.

    What subject would the Alt-Right clash with Stormfront?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    What does Stormfront want?
    , @Kyle McKenna

    What subject would the Alt-Right clash with Stormfront?
     
    I can't speak directly for either group, but the folks at Breitbart consider themselves alt-right (with a few exceptions) and you'll search far and wide before you'll find a group more monolithic (and vitriolic) in their support of Likud et al. That's a pretty fundamental clash.

    The Breitbart denizens want war with each and every one of Israel's enemies, they want it now, and this includes potential enemies and imaginary enemies, etc etc. "Alt-Right" is either a very large umbrella now or, as has been suggested above, has lost much of its meaning.
    , @Lot
    I think Alt-Right does not have any fixed meaning anymore, and is a useless term. There are no right or wrong answers to your questions about who is in and who is out.
  146. @dearieme
    "all of the genetic diversity in humans comprises just 0.1 percent of the human genome": and there was me, thinking it was about 0.3%.

    Anyway, the 0.1 %/0.3% is obviously so small that it matters not a whit. The difference, for instance between a man and a woman - of no significance. Between people who can thrive at high altitude and those who can't - of no importance. Et bloody cetera. Tedious lies endlessly repeated.

    “all of the genetic diversity in humans comprises just 0.1 percent of the human genome”: and there was me, thinking it was about 0.3%.

    And then again we hear that parents and their children share just 50% of their genes, and people get angry when you tell them that is bullshit. In addition to the deliberate obscurantism, there’s a lot — an enormous lot – of stupid inarticulateness on the part of geneticists.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ogunsiron
    there’s a lot — an enormous lot – of stupid inarticulateness on the part of geneticists
    ----
    I remember reading something, from either Greg Cochran or Razib or the legendary Godless Capitalist, about most geneticists being very competent lab technicians but otherwise very ignorant and blind to big picture issues.
  147. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @anonymous
    You are correct. She is misconstruing the results of f-statistics applied in population genetics, which attempt to quantify what you might call 'statistical inbreeding'. The 'chestnut' should read something like "an African man might statistically be as genetically isolated from another African man as *Asians* are from *Africans*." With f-statistics, you are drawing circles around groups and comparing inbreeding coefficients *within* vs. *among.*

    (And IMO the results really don't support her POV, but anyway...)

    If you are interested in this kind of thing (and it is pretty cool...), a handful of useful google-able buzzwords might include Wahlund effect, fixation index, population substructure, inbreeding coefficients, and Sewall Wright.

    Here is Yale psychologist Paul Bloom’s version of this chestnut in Descartes’ Baby:

    There is an important sense, then, in which races are artifacts–that is, the concept of race has been created by people, not by nature. But we do not tend to see it this way. Instead, we see race, like species, as corresponding to deeper objective facts about reality. In a national survey, Americans were asked whether they agreed with this statement: “TWO PEOPLE from the SAME RACE will always be more genetically similar to each other than TWO PEOPLE from DIFFERENT RACES.” Most adults agreed with this statement. But it is not true. (To see why, consider again the notion that races are like families. Is my child more genetically similar to every other Bloom than to every other non-Bloom, including his mother?) In fact, two randomly chosen members of the same race are genetically far more different from each other than the average member of one race is from the average member of another.

    Thoughts?

    Read More
    • Replies: @ben tillman

    “TWO PEOPLE from the SAME RACE will always be more genetically similar to each other than TWO PEOPLE from DIFFERENT RACES"

    Most adults agreed with this statement. But it is not true.

    Thoughts?
     

    The initial thought is that that is not the claim. The claim is not about races in the abstract (which using Steve's definition could be relatively small); it is about differentiated races of hundreds of millions of people, in which context the claim is true.
    , @Stogumber
    "In fact, two randomly chosen members of the same race are genetically far more different from each other than the average member of one race is from the average member of another. "
    Isn't this wrong on purely statistical reasons?
    I would suppose that, if you compare all elements of a group to all other elements, the more elements you will include, the more you will you be nearing the "average". This seems to be the meaning of "average", isn't it?
    , @Stogumber
    "In fact, two randomly chosen members of the same race are genetically far more different from each other than the average member of one race is from the average member of another. "
    Isn't this wrong for purely statistical reasons?
    I would suppose that, if you randomly chose two elements of a group for comparison, chances will be fifty to fifty that the difference is bigger (or smaller) than the average. But the more elements you include into your comparisons, the more the probability shifts into the direction of the average. And this simple because of the meaning of "average" - independent of the particular matter of race.
    , @anon

    In fact, two randomly chosen members of the same race are genetically far more different from each other than the average member of one race is from the average member of another.
     

    Thoughts?
     
    verbal con trick

    group A: IQ varies between 90-110, average 100
    group B: IQ varies between 80-100, average 90

    difference *within* each group is 20
    difference between the two *averages* is only 10

    #

    the argument is designed to deflect from the critical point which is there are differences in racial averages - the denial of which is the basis of PC

    the point to hone in on when this argument is used is that while this argument is an attempt to cloud the issue in the process it admits the most critical counter point - the existence of different racial averages
    , @James B. Shearer
    155

    ... In fact, two randomly chosen members of the same race are genetically far more different from each other than the average member of one race is from the average member of another.
     
    This seems surprising because people think it means the same as "Two randomly chosen chosen members of the same race are genetically more different than a randomly chosen member of one race is from a randomly chosen member of another race" but it doesn't as averaging reduces differences.

    Consider a hypothetical example in which you have 1000 genes each with a A and B variant and two races blue and green. Suppose members of the blue race always have the A variant of the first 100 genes and have the A or B variants of the remaining 900 genes 50% of the time each (randomly and independently). Similarly suppose members of the green race always have the B variant for the first 100 genes and have the A or B variants for the remaining 900 genes 50% of the time each (randomly and independently). Assume the distance between the A and B variants is 1 and that we can sum the distances over the 1000 genes to get the total difference. Then two random members of the blue race (or two random members of the green race) have expected difference 450. But the expected difference between a random member of the blue race and a random member of the green race is 550 (which is larger than 450 as we would expect).

    Now look at the average member (in the sense of averaging gene frequencies) of the blue race. This average blue is 100% A on the first 100 genes and 50% A and 50% B on the remaining 900. Similarly the average green is 100% B on the first 100 genes and 50% A and 50% B on the remaining 900. So the difference between the average blue and average green is just 100. This is less than the expected difference between two random blues (or two random greens) but we are comparing apples and oranges. The difference between the average blue and the average blue (or the average green and the average green) is 0 which is less than 100 as expected.

    So the original statement deceptively depends on averaging in one case but not the other.
  148. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    I thought The Atlantic was a top-tier magazine of long pedigree. Why then is it so poorly copy-edited? Three examples:
    [1] The problem is not with the science per se, but with the set of an [sic] underlying assumptions about race that we always imprint on the latest science.
    [2] The trouble with the way we talk about race is that our biological differences are by degree rather [than] by category.
    [3] President Roosevelt decided to count Mexicans as white in that year’s census [in] order to shore up Mexican relations.

    No money.

    Read More
  149. @Jefferson
    "So Stormfront is now officially an alt-right site? *facepalm*"

    What exactly are the ideological differences between the Alt-Right and Stormfront? Do most people on the Alt-Right not recite the 14 words?

    “So Stormfront is now officially an alt-right site? *facepalm*

    What exactly are the ideological differences between the Alt-Right and Stormfront? Do most people on the Alt-Right not recite the 14 words?

    I would hope that everyone on the alt-right is comfortable with the 14 words (as redundant as they may be). There’s no principled objection to them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "I would hope that everyone on the alt-right is comfortable with the 14 words (as redundant as they may be). There’s no principled objection to them."

    The 14 Words is way less racist than what comes out of the mouths of Black Lies Matter.
    , @syonredux

    I would hope that everyone on the alt-right is comfortable with the 14 words (as redundant as they may be). There’s no principled objection to them.
     
    The Fourteen Words define true conservatism:

    "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children."

    If you are a White person, and you are not "comfortable" with them, then you are not conservative. End of story.
    , @syonredux
    “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.”

    Gotta confess, I love going online and mocking SJWs with modified versions of the 14 words.For example, tweeting something like this:

    “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for Black children.”
    -Malcolm X, 1961
  150. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Steven Wilson
    Since Trump and the Republicans will control the Department of Commerce which conducts the census, why don't they, just to hear the identity politicians howl, remove all the divisive racial classifications from the census forms. Seems appropriate to me as the people most in favor of the endless bifurcation of groups maintain race doesn't exist. And in truth it seems appropriate to me regardless.

    How is France’s outlawing the collection of race-based data working out for France?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    It's working out for the people who want to destroy the French.
  151. @Maj. Kong
    The existence and semi-legitimate nature of phora such as Stormfront, is a key ingredient in assisting the ADL and SPLC not look like the boy who cried wolf.

    Fred Phelps, founder of the Westboro Church, was one of the greatest allies the gay rights movement ever had.

    This is called "black propaganda"

    http://www.returnofkings.com/98632/how-the-fbi-infiltrates-movements-and-what-you-can-do-to-stop-them

    The trick for us is to neither appreciate or disavow the David Dukes of the world. Rather, just point our finger back at the CNNs giving oxygen to their fire.

    Yes, I agree. The Stormfront approach seems designed to be counterproductive – a roadmap to permanent exile in the wilderness. More recently, Richard Spencer seems to be allying with SF. I’ve seen people describe him as “the next David Duke” – as if that’s a good thing. Duke is an irrelevancy, and has gone out of his way to make himself such.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    As far as I know about Spencer, he's not into boorishness. Duke started out as a boor, and then decided to adopt the intellectual cloak.

    It would take a worldwide depression far deeper than the 1930s to create a climate for totalitarian ideas to go mainstream. Something on the order of a post-PeakOil society, or what was Mad Max before the feminist remake.
    , @Jefferson
    "Yes, I agree. The Stormfront approach seems designed to be counterproductive – a roadmap to permanent exile in the wilderness. More recently, Richard Spencer seems to be allying with SF. I’ve seen people describe him as “the next David Duke” – as if that’s a good thing. Duke is an irrelevancy, and has gone out of his way to make himself such."

    David Duke is pathetic. He is not even smart enough to turn his fringe political views into a shitload of cold hard cash like Alex Jones for example has been able to do. Alex Jones managed to become a millionaire spewing fringe conspiracy theorists with zero support from the mainstream media. David Duke has never financially risen above lower class White trash status. Stormfront will never become anywhere near as successful as Infowars has become.

    How the hell would David Duke even be competent enough to create a White nationalist Stormfront version of Israel when he is not even capable of creating personal wealth for himself.

  152. @Jefferson
    "So Stormfront is now officially an alt-right site? *facepalm*"

    What exactly are the ideological differences between the Alt-Right and Stormfront? Do most people on the Alt-Right not recite the 14 words?

    “Do most people on the Alt-Right not recite the 14 words?”

    Given that the Alt-Right is a nebulous, ill-defined group of mostly anonymous people on the internet – who knows?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    What are the 14 words? I need to keep my deplorableness current lest I be exiled.
  153. @candid_observer
    Why did the cretinous Ms. Zhang decide that she would target the intellectual midgets at Stormfront, rather than, say, Steve or more generally Unz.com?

    Answer: because, for all her "education", she can defeat only strawmen.

    Why did the cretinous Ms. Zhang decide that she would target the intellectual midgets at Stormfront, rather than, say, Steve or more generally Unz.com?

    Answer: because, for all her “education”, she can defeat only strawmen.

    No, she would be routed at Stormfront. There are a lot of two-digit IQ-ers at Stormfront but also enough smart folks to refute her six ways to Sunday.

    She would never dare go there to debate for the same reason the US women’s soccer team would never play a men’s college team. The danger of humiliation is too great.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ogunsiron
    She would never dare go there to debate for the same reason the US women’s soccer team would never play a men’s college team. The danger of humiliation is too great
    ----
    I think that those people increasingly live in such a tightly closed bubble that their stupid views never get challenged. They have no idea how weak their foundations are. We should be able to lure many of them into debates where they show up completely unprepared, because they think "lol white ppl are so dumb, I'm gonna crush that debate".
  154. @Chase
    On a color wheel, there is no specific point where blue turns into green, so colors don't exist.

    “On a color wheel, there is no specific point where blue turns into green, so colors don’t exist.”

    There are no end of such examples that point out the idiocy of the “race doesn’t exist” line.

    Temperature is a continuous scale, so there is no meaningful difference between hot and cold, between boiling water and freezing water.

    The atmosphere has no clear boundary, so there is no meaningful distinction to be made between the surface of the Earth and deep space.

    Read More
  155. @Mr. Anon
    Yes, I agree. The Stormfront approach seems designed to be counterproductive - a roadmap to permanent exile in the wilderness. More recently, Richard Spencer seems to be allying with SF. I've seen people describe him as "the next David Duke" - as if that's a good thing. Duke is an irrelevancy, and has gone out of his way to make himself such.

    As far as I know about Spencer, he’s not into boorishness. Duke started out as a boor, and then decided to adopt the intellectual cloak.

    It would take a worldwide depression far deeper than the 1930s to create a climate for totalitarian ideas to go mainstream. Something on the order of a post-PeakOil society, or what was Mad Max before the feminist remake.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "As far as I know about Spencer, he’s not into boorishness. Duke started out as a boor, and then decided to adopt the intellectual cloak."

    It's a pretty thin cloak in Duke's case.

    "It would take a worldwide depression far deeper than the 1930s to create a climate for totalitarian ideas to go mainstream."

    Spencer doesn't advocate totalitarianism, as far as I know.
  156. @Anonymous
    Here is Yale psychologist Paul Bloom's version of this chestnut in Descartes' Baby:

    There is an important sense, then, in which races are artifacts--that is, the concept of race has been created by people, not by nature. But we do not tend to see it this way. Instead, we see race, like species, as corresponding to deeper objective facts about reality. In a national survey, Americans were asked whether they agreed with this statement: "TWO PEOPLE from the SAME RACE will always be more genetically similar to each other than TWO PEOPLE from DIFFERENT RACES." Most adults agreed with this statement. But it is not true. (To see why, consider again the notion that races are like families. Is my child more genetically similar to every other Bloom than to every other non-Bloom, including his mother?) In fact, two randomly chosen members of the same race are genetically far more different from each other than the average member of one race is from the average member of another.

     

    Thoughts?

    “TWO PEOPLE from the SAME RACE will always be more genetically similar to each other than TWO PEOPLE from DIFFERENT RACES”

    Most adults agreed with this statement. But it is not true.

    Thoughts?

    The initial thought is that that is not the claim. The claim is not about races in the abstract (which using Steve’s definition could be relatively small); it is about differentiated races of hundreds of millions of people, in which context the claim is true.

    Read More
  157. Denial of the science of human genetic diversity has long been endorsed by a number of scientists and knowingly permitted through silence or indifference by a much larger number. In general their view was that nothing good could come from the truth and thus no harm could come from the lie.

    This is obviously a dangerous point of view, not just from the direct effects of propagating falsehoods upon which important things like public policy end up being built, but also in indirect ways by eroding trust in science.

    I suspect that the conservative denial around climate change has been driven in part by this indirect effect of eroding trust in science. A rational layman would ask themselves: if one can’t trust scientists to not lie about things you can see with your own eyes when it’s politically expedient, how can you trust them to to tell the trust about something as slow moving and difficult to directly observe as climate change? Or the cynical conservative might say: what’s good for the goose is good for the gander and charge forward with the politicization of science.

    Read More
  158. @Bugg
    If race is a human construct and really irrelevant since we only .1% different, let's offer the Left the logical end to this process; a race free world in full. End all racial set asides, a complete and total ban on all affirmative action programs . No reparations or any other such nonsense.Let's have the 14th Amendment mean what it says; everyone equal under the law for ever more. How about it?

    It’s a major thing separating knee-jerk lefties from us deplorable alt-right types. We believe all men are not created equal, but should be treated as equals before the law. They believe all people are created equal, but should be treated unequally by the law.

    Read More
  159. @Jefferson
    "At this point, any use of that term is a boost to the anti-Trump media and Richard Spencer both.

    The official Trump line straight from Bannon is now to completely reject the term.

    Let’s stop using it completely, including debating its meaning."

    You dodged my question, which basically means you do not see any ideological difference at all between the Alt-Right and Stormfront.

    There are bigger ideological differences between The Nation Of Islam and Black Lies Matter than there is between the Alt-Right and Stormfront.

    Where BLM and The NOI would clash with each other is on the issue of Homosexuality.

    What subject would the Alt-Right clash with Stormfront?

    What does Stormfront want?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "What does Stormfront want?"

    Stormfromt wants the final solution for a certain tribe.
  160. @Tiny Duck
    not just geneticists that have to worry. All kinds of science being misinterpreted & decontextualized for ill/hate by alt-right. Geneticists need to speak out against misinterpretations

    We will all be People of Color in a few years so all this is moot. Or so I hope. I am constantly amazed at the evil exhibited by white men

    “We will all be People of Color in a few years so all this is moot. ”

    I’ll be dead in a few years?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna

    “We will all be People of Color in a few years so all this is moot. ”

    I’ll be dead in a few years?
     
    No, you'll have transmogrified into caffè latte, like the rest of us. Since it's so popular now to change one's sex, this should be a simple matter by comparison.
  161. @Anonymous
    Here is Yale psychologist Paul Bloom's version of this chestnut in Descartes' Baby:

    There is an important sense, then, in which races are artifacts--that is, the concept of race has been created by people, not by nature. But we do not tend to see it this way. Instead, we see race, like species, as corresponding to deeper objective facts about reality. In a national survey, Americans were asked whether they agreed with this statement: "TWO PEOPLE from the SAME RACE will always be more genetically similar to each other than TWO PEOPLE from DIFFERENT RACES." Most adults agreed with this statement. But it is not true. (To see why, consider again the notion that races are like families. Is my child more genetically similar to every other Bloom than to every other non-Bloom, including his mother?) In fact, two randomly chosen members of the same race are genetically far more different from each other than the average member of one race is from the average member of another.

     

    Thoughts?

    “In fact, two randomly chosen members of the same race are genetically far more different from each other than the average member of one race is from the average member of another. ”
    Isn’t this wrong on purely statistical reasons?
    I would suppose that, if you compare all elements of a group to all other elements, the more elements you will include, the more you will you be nearing the “average”. This seems to be the meaning of “average”, isn’t it?

    Read More
  162. @Joe Walker
    Draw me a hypothetical family tree in which an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.

    It would work if one of the Africans was a North African Caucasoid and the other was a sub-Saharan Negroid. The North African Caucasoid would be more closely related to Europeans and Asians than he would be to the sub-Saharan Negroid.

    It’s probably outdated by better data now, but:

    View post on imgur.com

    The length of the line connecting two populations is a measure of the genetic distance between population averages. Notice the African population.

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  163. @Anonymous
    Here is Yale psychologist Paul Bloom's version of this chestnut in Descartes' Baby:

    There is an important sense, then, in which races are artifacts--that is, the concept of race has been created by people, not by nature. But we do not tend to see it this way. Instead, we see race, like species, as corresponding to deeper objective facts about reality. In a national survey, Americans were asked whether they agreed with this statement: "TWO PEOPLE from the SAME RACE will always be more genetically similar to each other than TWO PEOPLE from DIFFERENT RACES." Most adults agreed with this statement. But it is not true. (To see why, consider again the notion that races are like families. Is my child more genetically similar to every other Bloom than to every other non-Bloom, including his mother?) In fact, two randomly chosen members of the same race are genetically far more different from each other than the average member of one race is from the average member of another.

     

    Thoughts?

    “In fact, two randomly chosen members of the same race are genetically far more different from each other than the average member of one race is from the average member of another. ”
    Isn’t this wrong for purely statistical reasons?
    I would suppose that, if you randomly chose two elements of a group for comparison, chances will be fifty to fifty that the difference is bigger (or smaller) than the average. But the more elements you include into your comparisons, the more the probability shifts into the direction of the average. And this simple because of the meaning of “average” – independent of the particular matter of race.

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    • Replies: @snorlax

    Isn’t this wrong for purely statistical reasons?
     
    A number of years ago, when designing a new fighter plane, the US Air Force decided to create "ergonomic" seating, controls and cabin layout designed around an extensive series of physical measurements of the average airman. The plane quickly started setting records for pilot complaints about discomfort.

    They had to go back and redesign the cabin, after taking another look at the data and finding that, of the thousands of men in the sample, every single one deviated significantly from the average on at least a few of the measurements they took.

    So, if it's not an outright falsehood, it could be something like that.
    , @Anonymous
    I don't know if it's a priori false if that's what you're saying. Imagine a population that has some attribute, say height, that's uniformly distributed from 4' to 7', and another population uniformly distributed from 4' 1" to 7' 1". Then the difference between the two average members ("average member" seems like a bad fiction, but whatever) of each population is 1 inch, but I'm guessing two members chosen randomly within the same population are likely to be more than 1 inch apart. But what concept does that shoot down, and is it actually what he means?

    And this part:


    (To see why, consider again the notion that races are like families. Is my child more genetically similar to every other Bloom than to every other non-Bloom, including his mother?)
     
    So to translate it back to races we get:

    (To see why, consider again the notion that families are like races. Is my child more genetically similar to every other white person than to every other non-white person, including his mother?)
     
    ???
  164. http://sarzha.com:

    I’m a staff writer at the Atlantic, where I cover health and science.

    In a previous life, I studied neurobiology at Harvard and spent a lot of time with fruit flies.

    I’ll refrain from cracking the obvious joke bc you don’t shoot fruit flies in the barrel.

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  165. @dearieme
    "all of the genetic diversity in humans comprises just 0.1 percent of the human genome": and there was me, thinking it was about 0.3%.

    Anyway, the 0.1 %/0.3% is obviously so small that it matters not a whit. The difference, for instance between a man and a woman - of no significance. Between people who can thrive at high altitude and those who can't - of no importance. Et bloody cetera. Tedious lies endlessly repeated.

    I think the nonsensical “race is an unreal social convention” idea started after the slander campaign against “The Bell Curve” many years ago started to die down.

    Academic leftists knew that psychometric research was solid in the book, so came up with that so as to escape the “inconvenient truth” of the racial disparity in all reputable studies of large groups when IQ is the issue being studied.

    Can anyone confirm or correct this? A Ref or two would be appreciated.

    Mr. Unz – great site.

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  166. @Maj. Kong
    As far as I know about Spencer, he's not into boorishness. Duke started out as a boor, and then decided to adopt the intellectual cloak.

    It would take a worldwide depression far deeper than the 1930s to create a climate for totalitarian ideas to go mainstream. Something on the order of a post-PeakOil society, or what was Mad Max before the feminist remake.

    “As far as I know about Spencer, he’s not into boorishness. Duke started out as a boor, and then decided to adopt the intellectual cloak.”

    It’s a pretty thin cloak in Duke’s case.

    “It would take a worldwide depression far deeper than the 1930s to create a climate for totalitarian ideas to go mainstream.”

    Spencer doesn’t advocate totalitarianism, as far as I know.

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  167. Race is a “social construct” in the same way all taxonomies are social constructs. They’re a way of classifying organisms in a way relevant to human interests. The classic Linnaean taxonomy of organisms is a social construct, but you don’t see Zhang denouncing those or similar taxonomies, or arguing that it has no scientific validity. Yet, anyway. But to toss out biological taxonomies would make a hash of biology, in a way similar to Borges’ famous taxonomy of animals:

    Those that belong to the emperor
    Embalmed ones
    Those that are trained
    Suckling pigs
    Mermaids (or Sirens)
    Fabulous ones
    Stray dogs
    Those that are included in this classification
    Those that tremble as if they were mad
    Innumerable ones
    Those drawn with a very fine camel hair brush
    Et cetera
    Those that have just broken the flower vase
    Those that, at a distance, resemble flies

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  168. In the genomic age, it is now easy to compare the DNA of people from around the world. And it has indeed revealed that our racial categories are fuzzy proxies for genetic difference—an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.

    This is one of the most popular chestnuts of the 21st Century, but I’ve never seen anybody point to an actual example or even explain how this is supposed to work in theory. Draw me a hypothetical family tree in which an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.

    The claim is not that the African man might be more related to the Asian in a genealogical sense, but that he might share more alleles with the Asian than with the other African. And I think in theory this is actually possible — in much the same way that it is possible to flip a coin 50 times and get heads every time. It’s only in practice that this will never happen.

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  169. @Lot
    The fact that IQ is a zillion genes with very small effects will make an IQ boost be one of hardest things to improve in your kids with genetic engineering.

    We also will be able to produce normal IQ babies from low-IQ parents much sooner than we will be able to make high IQ babies from normal IQ parents.

    We will be making them bigger, better looking, and healthier long before we get designer babies with high IQs.

    One thing we'll see pretty early is NE Asian parents giving their sons brown hair and daughters blond hair. That is a really simple change.

    I wonder if the government of China will repress this as anti-nationalist and frivolous. I don't think Japan, South Korean, or Vietnam would.

    We will be making them bigger, better looking, and healthier long before we get designer babies with high IQs.

    Better looking?? Good Lord, bring it on, and soon. If the vast multi-cultural third-world hordes currently being inflicted upon the western world are any indication, we need that fix yesterday.

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    • Replies: @Lot

    Better looking?? Good Lord, bring it on, and soon.
     
    We'll all be far too old to do anything but gawk at the genetically engineered hotties who'll start to turn legal around 2043, and generally come from doting protective families who spent $25,000 on genetic engineering services.
  170. @Jefferson
    "One thing we’ll see pretty early is NE Asian parents giving their sons brown hair and daughters blond hair. That is a really simple change."

    Why wouldn't they give their sons blond hair as well?

    Why wouldn’t they give their sons blond hair as well?

    Blond hair is almost universally desirable among females. For males it’s a bit more of a troublesome marker, as it doesn’t equate with virility as much as darker hair does. Don’t tell DJT.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Blond hair is almost universally desirable among females. For males it’s a bit more of a troublesome marker,"

    Plenty of chicks dig blond haired men. Roosh V said it is an advantage in South America with the ladies there.
  171. W.r.t. Ancestry DNA tests.
    Being European, I’ve always assumed that the most prominent enterprise in this branch is FamilyTreeDNA, Houston (owned by two guys named Greenspan and Blankfeld).
    I thought so because only FamilyTreeDNA gave birth to a European daughter; Swiss enterprise Igenea.
    Igenea declares to have been founded by Joelle Apter (originally Opatov), who was basically interested in her own Polish-Jewish roots. In fact, Jews are the only ethnical group to which Igenea appeals expressively (“Jewish roots” are one of the four points made on their homepage). So I have always thought that these ancestry DNA tests are mostly a Jewish thing.

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  172. @Jefferson
    "At this point, any use of that term is a boost to the anti-Trump media and Richard Spencer both.

    The official Trump line straight from Bannon is now to completely reject the term.

    Let’s stop using it completely, including debating its meaning."

    You dodged my question, which basically means you do not see any ideological difference at all between the Alt-Right and Stormfront.

    There are bigger ideological differences between The Nation Of Islam and Black Lies Matter than there is between the Alt-Right and Stormfront.

    Where BLM and The NOI would clash with each other is on the issue of Homosexuality.

    What subject would the Alt-Right clash with Stormfront?

    What subject would the Alt-Right clash with Stormfront?

    I can’t speak directly for either group, but the folks at Breitbart consider themselves alt-right (with a few exceptions) and you’ll search far and wide before you’ll find a group more monolithic (and vitriolic) in their support of Likud et al. That’s a pretty fundamental clash.

    The Breitbart denizens want war with each and every one of Israel’s enemies, they want it now, and this includes potential enemies and imaginary enemies, etc etc. “Alt-Right” is either a very large umbrella now or, as has been suggested above, has lost much of its meaning.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SFG
    the folks at Breitbart consider themselves alt-right (with a few exceptions)

    Do they? Milo wrote that famous article claiming the alt-right was all a bunch of jokers that was Anglin's excuse to get mad at him, but I haven't seen them actually describe themselves that way. A quick search through their archives mostly reveals them making fun of Hillary's speech about it and, well, Milo.

    Apart from the obvious (Jews), Breitbart is more moderate than the alt-right on racial issues--they tend to concentrate on issues of reverse discrimination, whereas the alt-right hold discrimination is OK as a method of expression of a racial group's self-determination.
    , @Forbes
    This seems highly inconsistent or implausible as an explanation of Breitbart. As best I can tell, the AR wants nothing to do with neoconservatives (and their warfighting urges). I know of no cleaner distinction as between the AR and conservatives, generally. If Breitbart wants war with Israel's enemies, then it is not AR.
  173. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Its a cultural construct. And with genetic engineering, its culture that is immutable. Except for a tendency towards devolving into perversion.

    Young Jeezy.

    How do you explain that? The Rap Music gene?

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  174. @Mr. Anon
    Yes, I agree. The Stormfront approach seems designed to be counterproductive - a roadmap to permanent exile in the wilderness. More recently, Richard Spencer seems to be allying with SF. I've seen people describe him as "the next David Duke" - as if that's a good thing. Duke is an irrelevancy, and has gone out of his way to make himself such.

    “Yes, I agree. The Stormfront approach seems designed to be counterproductive – a roadmap to permanent exile in the wilderness. More recently, Richard Spencer seems to be allying with SF. I’ve seen people describe him as “the next David Duke” – as if that’s a good thing. Duke is an irrelevancy, and has gone out of his way to make himself such.”

    David Duke is pathetic. He is not even smart enough to turn his fringe political views into a shitload of cold hard cash like Alex Jones for example has been able to do. Alex Jones managed to become a millionaire spewing fringe conspiracy theorists with zero support from the mainstream media. David Duke has never financially risen above lower class White trash status. Stormfront will never become anywhere near as successful as Infowars has become.

    How the hell would David Duke even be competent enough to create a White nationalist Stormfront version of Israel when he is not even capable of creating personal wealth for himself.

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  175. @jamie b.
    "We will all be People of Color in a few years so all this is moot. "

    I'll be dead in a few years?

    “We will all be People of Color in a few years so all this is moot. ”

    I’ll be dead in a few years?

    No, you’ll have transmogrified into caffè latte, like the rest of us. Since it’s so popular now to change one’s sex, this should be a simple matter by comparison.

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  176. @Kyle McKenna

    Why wouldn’t they give their sons blond hair as well?
     
    Blond hair is almost universally desirable among females. For males it's a bit more of a troublesome marker, as it doesn't equate with virility as much as darker hair does. Don't tell DJT.

    “Blond hair is almost universally desirable among females. For males it’s a bit more of a troublesome marker,”

    Plenty of chicks dig blond haired men. Roosh V said it is an advantage in South America with the ladies there.

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    • Replies: @Lot

    Roosh V said it is an advantage in South America with the ladies there.
     
    Sure, skin and hair coloring is a class marker in South America in a way it isn't in Europe and North America.
    , @Kyle McKenna
    Ah yes. Latinos do love white girls

    http://www.wbal.com/article/211318/130/mexican-man-charged-with-rape-had-19-deportations-removals
  177. “For example, the Atlantic Ocean is only 1600 miles wide between South America and Africa, but as far as we know to this day, nobody ever crossed from Africa to South America or vice-versa before 1492. ”

    If we take “Africa” as a geographical unity, this can be disputed. Take Prof. Fuat Sezgin, Frankfurt:
    “Sezgin has argued that Muslim seafarers had reached the Americas by 1420, citing as evidence the inscription on a map and the fact that the high longitudinal precision of early maps of the Americas would not have been attainable using Western navigational technology.” (Wikipedia)
    Sezgin supposes that the Muslim seafarers were merchants, may have come from Morocco and must have landed at Brazil.

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  178. @Jefferson
    "At this point, any use of that term is a boost to the anti-Trump media and Richard Spencer both.

    The official Trump line straight from Bannon is now to completely reject the term.

    Let’s stop using it completely, including debating its meaning."

    You dodged my question, which basically means you do not see any ideological difference at all between the Alt-Right and Stormfront.

    There are bigger ideological differences between The Nation Of Islam and Black Lies Matter than there is between the Alt-Right and Stormfront.

    Where BLM and The NOI would clash with each other is on the issue of Homosexuality.

    What subject would the Alt-Right clash with Stormfront?

    I think Alt-Right does not have any fixed meaning anymore, and is a useless term. There are no right or wrong answers to your questions about who is in and who is out.

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    • Replies: @Luke Ford
    According to Greg Johnson (the Editor of Counter-Currents and the most formidable philosopher in white nationalism today), the Alt Right is an innocuous-sounding entry vehicle into white nationalism, which is, as its critics allege, inherently racist, xenophobic and anti-Semitic.
  179. @Jefferson
    "One thing we’ll see pretty early is NE Asian parents giving their sons brown hair and daughters blond hair. That is a really simple change."

    Why wouldn't they give their sons blond hair as well?

    Why wouldn’t they give their sons blond hair as well?

    Just looking at the actual colors Asians die their hair. Women go blonde or brown, men go brown, anything lighter looks fay and unprofessional. For NE Asians, men have darker skins, so it looks really strange too.

    There is also that jet black with reddish shine thing, but I’m not sure any combination of genes can achieve that.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Just looking at the actual colors Asians die their hair. Women go blonde or brown, men go brown, anything lighter looks fay and unprofessional."

    Blonde hair looks fay and unprofessional on any woman who was not blonde during childhood. No woman who was a brunette as a child can successfully fool people/pass for a natural blonde as an adult.
    , @Clyde

    There is also that jet black with reddish shine thing, but I’m not sure any combination of genes can achieve that.
     
    I have only seen this in photos. Not enough Asians where I live. One thing I know is real Euro women love real henna. It gives off a pagan vibe. Red and reddish tinted hair being bold, sexy, obviously. Women's hairdos can upset worlds small and large.
  180. @Daniel Chieh
    Humans and chimpanzees share 99% of the same genes. And I share 99.99% of the same genes with someone with Down's Syndrome.

    As you can see, Down's Syndrome individuals are merely experiencing a social construct and is every bit as capable of earning a Noble Prize as anyone else might.

    Excellent point.

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  181. @Jefferson
    "Blond hair is almost universally desirable among females. For males it’s a bit more of a troublesome marker,"

    Plenty of chicks dig blond haired men. Roosh V said it is an advantage in South America with the ladies there.

    Roosh V said it is an advantage in South America with the ladies there.

    Sure, skin and hair coloring is a class marker in South America in a way it isn’t in Europe and North America.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Sure, skin and hair coloring is a class marker in South America in a way it isn’t in Europe and North America."

    Skin color is a class marker in states in The U.S where the NAM underclass vastly outnumber the White underclass like California for example.

    The affluent Malibu for example is a whopping 91 percent White, while in it's much less affluent lower class city limits of Los Angeles White people are not even a plurality of the population, let alone the majority.
    , @Kyle McKenna
    Besides, 'chicks' also dig Matthew McConaughey. I rest my case.
  182. @Kyle McKenna

    We will be making them bigger, better looking, and healthier long before we get designer babies with high IQs.
     
    Better looking?? Good Lord, bring it on, and soon. If the vast multi-cultural third-world hordes currently being inflicted upon the western world are any indication, we need that fix yesterday.

    Better looking?? Good Lord, bring it on, and soon.

    We’ll all be far too old to do anything but gawk at the genetically engineered hotties who’ll start to turn legal around 2043, and generally come from doting protective families who spent $25,000 on genetic engineering services.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TWS
    That will be when rejuvenation starts coming on line. You'll look and feel 30 or so I am told.
  183. @emjr

    If The Atlantic wants to disempower Stormfront
     
    Does Steve Sailer?

    Andrew Anglin’s master trolling has “power”?

    Gee, what one misses being away for a couple weeks…. Somebody clue me in!

    Did he get that post as head of the Fed? The Ford Foundation? Or was it president of Sarah Zhang’s alma mater, Harvard, where she:

    Sarah Zhang is a former senior online fellow at Mother Jones. Before working at MoJo, she wrote for Discover Magazine and did research on fruit flies in Israel.

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  184. @Lot

    Why wouldn’t they give their sons blond hair as well?
     
    Just looking at the actual colors Asians die their hair. Women go blonde or brown, men go brown, anything lighter looks fay and unprofessional. For NE Asians, men have darker skins, so it looks really strange too.

    There is also that jet black with reddish shine thing, but I'm not sure any combination of genes can achieve that.

    “Just looking at the actual colors Asians die their hair. Women go blonde or brown, men go brown, anything lighter looks fay and unprofessional.”

    Blonde hair looks fay and unprofessional on any woman who was not blonde during childhood. No woman who was a brunette as a child can successfully fool people/pass for a natural blonde as an adult.

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    • Replies: @Lot

    Blonde hair looks fay and unprofessional on any woman who was not blonde during childhood.
     
    Not at all. It is very common in the professional world. A high percentage of educated asian-american professional women either go blond, blond highlighted, or the black and shiny-red color. That's why I am predicting it will be popular, as well as because we are less than five years away from being able to change five or ten nucleotides on an embryo, enough to radically change hair color.
  185. The genetic difference between humans and chimpanzees is less than 4%. This means chimpanzees are 96% human!!! The genetic difference between humans and bananas is less than 50%. So even bananas are half-humans! Eating bananas is cannibalism and bananas must be accepted as members in a multicultural and multispeciest society. Chimpanzees of course should be provided with affirmative action.

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  186. @Lot

    Roosh V said it is an advantage in South America with the ladies there.
     
    Sure, skin and hair coloring is a class marker in South America in a way it isn't in Europe and North America.

    “Sure, skin and hair coloring is a class marker in South America in a way it isn’t in Europe and North America.”

    Skin color is a class marker in states in The U.S where the NAM underclass vastly outnumber the White underclass like California for example.

    The affluent Malibu for example is a whopping 91 percent White, while in it’s much less affluent lower class city limits of Los Angeles White people are not even a plurality of the population, let alone the majority.

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  187. @Malcolm X-Lax
    I don't know. I guess not? I've never been on the site. My comment was meant to be taken tongue in cheek, not literally.

    “I don’t know. I guess not?”

    Stormfront would not even accept quarter Japanese Dean Cain as White , let alone someone who is almost a quarter Sub Saharan African like Michelle Rodriguez.

    Dean Cain’s 1/8 Japanese son would not be accepted as White either by Stormfront.

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  188. I.e., before 1492. You know, there are reasons why 1492 is famous.

    Never considered this before, but maybe that’s another reason for the jihad against celebrating Columbus.

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  189. @Jefferson
    "With Asians, it’s just doggy tricks. Zero originality,"

    Asian Americans lack originality because they are the least creative racial group in America. Asian Americans even suck at cultural appropriating Black culture. Asian Americans love Hip Hop but their community has produced no Asian version of Kanye West and Lil Wayne for example.

    Asian Americans love the NBA but their community has produced no Asian version of LeBron James and Stephen Curry.

    When Asian Americans appropriate Black culture they produce vastly inferior results. MC Jin and Jeremy Lin is the best they can do, pathetic really.

    Who is the Asian American community's version of Denzel Washington and Samuel L. Jackson? John Cho from Harold & Kumar and George Takei. What a joke.

    Best Hollywood movie stars in recent years from more obscure racial / ethnic groups:

    American Indian – Graham Greene (e.g., stole “Maverick” from Mel Gibson, Jodie Foster, and James Garner — not the English Catholic novelist)

    Maori – Cliff Curtis

    Samoan – The Rock

    Mexican-American – The best guy in his prime right now is Michael Pena

    Arab-American – Tony Shalhoub; Vince Vaughn is 1/4th Lebanese

    Puerto Ricans — Benicio Del Toro

    Armenian-Americans: Oddly, there don’t seem to be many at present. Among actresses, Cher is half Armenian and won an Oscar, but that was three decades ago

    Gypsies — You see a lot of different claims for actors being part Roma, most notably Charlie Chaplin. Maybe the most plausible is that the late Bob Hoskins was 1/4th Gypsy

    Irish Travelers — Don’t see anybody I’ve heard of.

    Parsi — Don’t know of any current ones. In the past, perhaps Vivien Leigh? She was born in Darjeeling in the foothills of Himalayas north of Calcutta: her maternal grandfather had the unusual name of Yackjee:

    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/09/vivien-leigh-again.php

    Note: Looking at this list, I see that I’m biased toward actors over actresses, and biased toward character actors who become semi-stars through force of personality.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Maybe the most plausible is that the late Bob Hoskins was 1/4th Gypsy"

    I don't think Bob Hoskins has ever played a Gypsy in any of his films. The most ethnic roles he has ever taken were playing an Italian in Beyond The Sea and a Jew in Mermaids. He had that pan-Mediterranean look where he can easily play both an oy vey and a fuggedaboutit.
    , @Anonymous
    I'm pretty sure that Bob Hoskins was fully East End Ashkenazi.

    Bob Hoskins embroidered his life story somewhat. He was a chartered accountant before going into acting, early footage of him as a drama student reveals he spoke with a perfect BBC English accent - that cockney of his is an affectation.
    Hoskins also claimed that he only got into acting because he worked as taxi driver and on one occasion after ferrying his charge to the audition, he hung around, got talking, and later got the role.

    A likely story.

  190. @Jefferson
    "With Asians, it’s just doggy tricks. Zero originality,"

    Asian Americans lack originality because they are the least creative racial group in America. Asian Americans even suck at cultural appropriating Black culture. Asian Americans love Hip Hop but their community has produced no Asian version of Kanye West and Lil Wayne for example.

    Asian Americans love the NBA but their community has produced no Asian version of LeBron James and Stephen Curry.

    When Asian Americans appropriate Black culture they produce vastly inferior results. MC Jin and Jeremy Lin is the best they can do, pathetic really.

    Who is the Asian American community's version of Denzel Washington and Samuel L. Jackson? John Cho from Harold & Kumar and George Takei. What a joke.

    Best Hollywood movie stars in recent years from more obscure racial / ethnic groups:

    American Indian – Graham Greene (e.g., stole “Maverick” from Mel Gibson, Jodie Foster, and James Garner — not the English Catholic novelist)

    Maori – Cliff Curtis

    Samoan – The Rock

    Mexican-American – The best guy in his prime right now is Michael Pena

    Arab-American – Tony Shalhoub; Vince Vaughn is 1/4th Lebanese

    Puerto Ricans — Benicio Del Toro

    Armenian-Americans: Oddly, there don’t seem to be many at present. Among actresses, Cher is half Armenian and won an Oscar, but that was three decades ago

    Gypsies — You see a lot of different claims for actors being part Roma, most notably Charlie Chaplin. Maybe the most plausible is that the late Bob Hoskins was 1/4th Gypsy

    Irish Travelers — Don’t see anybody I’ve heard of.

    Parsi — Don’t know of any current ones. In the past, perhaps Vivien Leigh? She was born in Darjeeling in the foothills of Himalayas north of Calcutta: her maternal grandfather had the unusual name of Yackjee:

    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/09/vivien-leigh-again.php

    Note: Looking at this list, I see that I’m biased toward actors over actresses, and biased toward character actors who become semi-stars through force of personality.

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    • Replies: @Olorin
    My favorite Graham Greene role was as Explosives Enthusiast Edgar Montrose.
    , @Anonym
    I'd forgotten that the Pena I was thinking of was the character Javier Pena in Narcos. Pedro Pascal is the actor, he was definitely good and one of the better actors. Boyd Holbrook did an effective job playing Murphy but his narration was really where he shone.

    Luiz Guzman is in everything, and was effective in Narcos, though the obvious standout there was Wagner Moura, who made his way into Hollywood with Elysium. Some of the Sicarios were good too, like the actor who played Poison.
    , @Bugg
    Met many Lebanese and Croats who pass themselves off as Italian. With Croats, the last names are a giveaway, with suffixes like "-ovic". With Lebanese, cannot even tell. And really the differences in most ways that matter are minimal-all are Catholic and Mediterranean. In the US though "Italian" typically means descended from southern Italy, Naples or Sicily.
    , @AndrewR
    Arabs are an obscure ethnic group?
    , @Desiderius

    Graham Greene
     
    He's formidable as the heavy in Longmire.
    , @Lurker
    We tend to call people from Lebanon and that part of the world 'Arab'. Are they though? Aren't many of them the remnants of the Byzantine Empire, Greeks, Italians etc.
    , @TWS
    The Rock is half black.
    , @Mr. Anon
    "American Indian – Graham Greene (e.g., stole “Maverick” from Mel Gibson, Jodie Foster, and James Garner — not the English Catholic novelist)"

    Wes Studi (Last of the Mohicans, Heat) is pretty good too.
  191. @Anon
    Zhang seems to be smart but has no agency. Asiancy isn't the real thing.

    I'm sure she was a bright student, but her racial personality made her dutifully study, study, and study without asking tough questions. She went for good grades, status, and approval.

    So, she just parrots standard PC crap.

    I see more Asians in journalism and think tanks, but it is so different from Jewish rise in same fields in 20th century.

    Jews challenged the prevailing Narrative and established a new one, for good or for ill.

    With Asians, it's just doggy tricks. Zero originality, just Red-Guard-like adherence to the prevailing Narrative already installed by Jews and homos.

    So, we got two seoul bros and one 'we wuz zhang' sistah.

    Bingo. She would concur:

    I suddenly longed for the days when I knew exactly what to learn and received a grade that reflected exactly how much I had learned. I wouldn’t say I was good at organic chemistry, but I was very good at taking it—taking notes and exams, attending office hours. Being a student was what I knew—really all I knew.

    http://harvardmagazine.com/2011/08/intermission

    She has written a piece or few for usual lefty sites (Atlantic, Wired, Mother Jones, Gizmodo, poliSci Am…) whose stock has fallen considerably since November 8. I guess getting wound up about Nazis and showing closely cropped photos of half a dozen folks with swastikas and flipping Roman salutes still draws writing gigs, however.

    I wondered who signs her paychecks. Foundation or family money was my guess. Then I realized: she’s probably working for free. Perpetual internships, basically.

    The “Berta Greenwald Ledecky Fellow” mentioned at the above link pays undergrads at Harvard to do little stints at the university’s magazine:

    http://harvardmagazine.com/donate/special-gifts/ledecky

    More in her own words, including whether or not, as a Harvard grad who couldn’t find a job, she could get welfare:

    http://harvardmagazine.com/2011/07/messy-questions-messy-answers

    Elsewhere in the pages of Harvard Magazine, she contemplates girl shoes.

    Did I mention she wrote an absolutely dynamite piece as a Seattle Times intern a couple years back on using dummies to teach the administering of pelvic exams?

    I wondered who sent her to Israel to study Drosophila. The Booth Fellowship she drops here and there is a short-term post-grad thing, $15,000 or under to help defray travel/lodging costs.

    She often drops little hints about “having studied neurobiology at Harvard” or organic chem or whatever, but it’s window dressing.

    Ergo her maunderings on science aren’t even worth reply.

    This budding propagandist in an echo echo echo chamber likely doesn’t yet know who she works for…or more accurately is shopping herself around waiting for her big break. Could picking on the vast legions of alt-right Nazis be it!?!?! Imagine being the David to take down Goliath Sailerovsky!

    But here’s my punch line:

    The entire profile reminds me of Slate‘s Ibo scribbler fellow a couple weeks ago–the one revealing those “shocking” Stephen Miller undergrad quotes. Who, on his sixth or seventh scribbling internship after an elite education, launched from Tim Kaine’s 2012 Senate campaign, still might get introduced by Dems as the guy who studied calculus at U. of Chicago. While handing around the canapes and doing office grunt work. That it was largely remedial high-school level arithmetic matters not.

    This is the new generation of Magic Affirmative Action grads.

    2016/17 was supposed to be a bonanza year for them–right through 2025 and beyond.

    Instead, it looks like that just may go to white guys with robust trades and tech skills and no, or modest, college degrees. Guys who have been working since they were kids, for money, building real things and mission critical systems/structures, usually with increasing skill sets and responsibility. Guys who only work for free for people they love, and providing for others as well.

    How very unfair, unjust, racist, and nazi it all is. But it’s nothing some Zhangsplaining can’t fix.

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  192. @Steve Sailer
    Best Hollywood movie stars in recent years from more obscure racial / ethnic groups:

    American Indian - Graham Greene (e.g., stole "Maverick" from Mel Gibson, Jodie Foster, and James Garner -- not the English Catholic novelist)

    Maori - Cliff Curtis

    Samoan - The Rock

    Mexican-American - The best guy in his prime right now is Michael Pena

    Arab-American - Tony Shalhoub; Vince Vaughn is 1/4th Lebanese

    Puerto Ricans -- Benicio Del Toro

    Armenian-Americans: Oddly, there don't seem to be many at present. Among actresses, Cher is half Armenian and won an Oscar, but that was three decades ago

    Gypsies -- You see a lot of different claims for actors being part Roma, most notably Charlie Chaplin. Maybe the most plausible is that the late Bob Hoskins was 1/4th Gypsy

    Irish Travelers -- Don't see anybody I've heard of.

    Parsi -- Don't know of any current ones. In the past, perhaps Vivien Leigh? She was born in Darjeeling in the foothills of Himalayas north of Calcutta: her maternal grandfather had the unusual name of Yackjee:

    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/09/vivien-leigh-again.php

    Note: Looking at this list, I see that I'm biased toward actors over actresses, and biased toward character actors who become semi-stars through force of personality.

    My favorite Graham Greene role was as Explosives Enthusiast Edgar Montrose.

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  193. @Steve Sailer
    Best Hollywood movie stars in recent years from more obscure racial / ethnic groups:

    American Indian - Graham Greene (e.g., stole "Maverick" from Mel Gibson, Jodie Foster, and James Garner -- not the English Catholic novelist)

    Maori - Cliff Curtis

    Samoan - The Rock

    Mexican-American - The best guy in his prime right now is Michael Pena

    Arab-American - Tony Shalhoub; Vince Vaughn is 1/4th Lebanese

    Puerto Ricans -- Benicio Del Toro

    Armenian-Americans: Oddly, there don't seem to be many at present. Among actresses, Cher is half Armenian and won an Oscar, but that was three decades ago

    Gypsies -- You see a lot of different claims for actors being part Roma, most notably Charlie Chaplin. Maybe the most plausible is that the late Bob Hoskins was 1/4th Gypsy

    Irish Travelers -- Don't see anybody I've heard of.

    Parsi -- Don't know of any current ones. In the past, perhaps Vivien Leigh? She was born in Darjeeling in the foothills of Himalayas north of Calcutta: her maternal grandfather had the unusual name of Yackjee:

    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/09/vivien-leigh-again.php

    Note: Looking at this list, I see that I'm biased toward actors over actresses, and biased toward character actors who become semi-stars through force of personality.

    “Maybe the most plausible is that the late Bob Hoskins was 1/4th Gypsy”

    I don’t think Bob Hoskins has ever played a Gypsy in any of his films. The most ethnic roles he has ever taken were playing an Italian in Beyond The Sea and a Jew in Mermaids. He had that pan-Mediterranean look where he can easily play both an oy vey and a fuggedaboutit.

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  194. @Opinionator
    What does Stormfront want?

    “What does Stormfront want?”

    Stormfromt wants the final solution for a certain tribe.

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    • Replies: @Luke Ford
    Different groups have different interests. There are no objective good guys and bad guys. There's only faith that makes it so (that one group is better than another).

    Jews have had their share of mass murderers. Some were Stalin's Willing Executioners.

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

    Stormfront is a forum for warriors for a particular people. Likud is a forum for warriors for a particular people.
  195. @Lot

    Roosh V said it is an advantage in South America with the ladies there.
     
    Sure, skin and hair coloring is a class marker in South America in a way it isn't in Europe and North America.

    Besides, ‘chicks’ also dig Matthew McConaughey. I rest my case.

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  196. @ben tillman

    “So Stormfront is now officially an alt-right site? *facepalm*”

    What exactly are the ideological differences between the Alt-Right and Stormfront? Do most people on the Alt-Right not recite the 14 words?
     
    I would hope that everyone on the alt-right is comfortable with the 14 words (as redundant as they may be). There's no principled objection to them.

    “I would hope that everyone on the alt-right is comfortable with the 14 words (as redundant as they may be). There’s no principled objection to them.”

    The 14 Words is way less racist than what comes out of the mouths of Black Lies Matter.

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  197. @Lot
    Chia and quinoa are awesome. Don't forget the flaxseeds! Wheat germ makes me think of 80s bodybuilders.

    Chia and quinoa are awesome. Don’t forget the flaxseeds! Wheat germ makes me think of 80s bodybuilders.

    I thought brewer’s yeast was 80s bodybuilders. Maybe wheat germ is too. Wheat germ is in the cereal additions section of the supermarket and has a lot of protein while being inexpensive. It does the job.

    It’s probably the most, maybe only SWPLish thing about me. If I was true hipster I’d grow chia or buy some special blend from a farmer’s market but too many kids, too much work, too little time.

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  198. @Yak-15
    Collard Greens are superior

    Collard Greens are superior

    Don’t overlook watermelon and fried chicken

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  199. @Steve Sailer
    Best Hollywood movie stars in recent years from more obscure racial / ethnic groups:

    American Indian - Graham Greene (e.g., stole "Maverick" from Mel Gibson, Jodie Foster, and James Garner -- not the English Catholic novelist)

    Maori - Cliff Curtis

    Samoan - The Rock

    Mexican-American - The best guy in his prime right now is Michael Pena

    Arab-American - Tony Shalhoub; Vince Vaughn is 1/4th Lebanese

    Puerto Ricans -- Benicio Del Toro

    Armenian-Americans: Oddly, there don't seem to be many at present. Among actresses, Cher is half Armenian and won an Oscar, but that was three decades ago

    Gypsies -- You see a lot of different claims for actors being part Roma, most notably Charlie Chaplin. Maybe the most plausible is that the late Bob Hoskins was 1/4th Gypsy

    Irish Travelers -- Don't see anybody I've heard of.

    Parsi -- Don't know of any current ones. In the past, perhaps Vivien Leigh? She was born in Darjeeling in the foothills of Himalayas north of Calcutta: her maternal grandfather had the unusual name of Yackjee:

    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/09/vivien-leigh-again.php

    Note: Looking at this list, I see that I'm biased toward actors over actresses, and biased toward character actors who become semi-stars through force of personality.

    I’d forgotten that the Pena I was thinking of was the character Javier Pena in Narcos. Pedro Pascal is the actor, he was definitely good and one of the better actors. Boyd Holbrook did an effective job playing Murphy but his narration was really where he shone.

    Luiz Guzman is in everything, and was effective in Narcos, though the obvious standout there was Wagner Moura, who made his way into Hollywood with Elysium. Some of the Sicarios were good too, like the actor who played Poison.

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  200. @dearieme
    "all of the genetic diversity in humans comprises just 0.1 percent of the human genome": and there was me, thinking it was about 0.3%.

    Anyway, the 0.1 %/0.3% is obviously so small that it matters not a whit. The difference, for instance between a man and a woman - of no significance. Between people who can thrive at high altitude and those who can't - of no importance. Et bloody cetera. Tedious lies endlessly repeated.

    If I remember correctly, the difference between homo sapiens and homo neanderthalensis is only 0.2%, about double that between any two of us today. I wonder what the avg. diff. is between Great Danes and chihuahuas?

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  201. @Hepp
    The 0.1% canard is so fricking stupid it never stops bothering me. Apparently, 0.1% difference is enough that there's no physical overlap between Koreans, Nigerians and Swedes. On physically appearance there isn't even overlapping bell curves. So why can't 0.1% of variation mean that there are substantial differences in average intelligence and personality? What % variation between races would indicate IQ differences? 0.4%? 6.2%?

    Another childless woman talking nonsense.

    “Another childless woman talking nonsense.”

    She’s childless for a very good reason. Take a close look at the photograph. Chateau Heartiste uses the term “bitterbitch”. Now we know what it means.

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  202. @Stogumber
    "In fact, two randomly chosen members of the same race are genetically far more different from each other than the average member of one race is from the average member of another. "
    Isn't this wrong for purely statistical reasons?
    I would suppose that, if you randomly chose two elements of a group for comparison, chances will be fifty to fifty that the difference is bigger (or smaller) than the average. But the more elements you include into your comparisons, the more the probability shifts into the direction of the average. And this simple because of the meaning of "average" - independent of the particular matter of race.

    Isn’t this wrong for purely statistical reasons?

    A number of years ago, when designing a new fighter plane, the US Air Force decided to create “ergonomic” seating, controls and cabin layout designed around an extensive series of physical measurements of the average airman. The plane quickly started setting records for pilot complaints about discomfort.

    They had to go back and redesign the cabin, after taking another look at the data and finding that, of the thousands of men in the sample, every single one deviated significantly from the average on at least a few of the measurements they took.

    So, if it’s not an outright falsehood, it could be something like that.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    How about a bell curve upside down -- there's an average in the valley but hardly anyone lives there.

    An air force made up of Manute Bols and Muggsy Bogueses.

  203. @Mr. Cheeseburger
    The indoctrination is real, a couple of anecdotes...

    1. I remember going to the Museum of science in boston and they had an exhibit on race and genes. They had posters on the wall saying "did you know that a tall black guy and a tall white guy have more genes in common than a tall white guy and a short white guy."

    2. Im taking an anthro class next semester in college and i looked at the textbook, and its by Augustin Ramos. I think i remembereds seeing that name before so i looked him up on your blog, and sure enough you have a post up from 2014 where he denounces nicholas wade for not believing race is a social construct.

    3. also the lengths the author goes to to overcomplicate things are really startling, c'mon it's really not that complicated what people mean when they say "race" or "ancestry".

    I remember going to the Museum of science in boston and they had an exhibit on race and genes. They had posters on the wall saying “did you know that a tall black guy and a tall white guy have more genes in common than a tall white guy and a short white guy.”

    Which is of course why black guys father white kids more often than tall guys father short kids.

    Other thoughts:

    We share 60% of our DNA with a banana.

    200 comments, seemingly most about the African/Asian claim, and nobody’s mentioned Madagascar?

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    • LOL: ben tillman
    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Which is of course why black guys father white kids more often than tall guys father short kids.
     
    Perfect response.
  204. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    I thought The Atlantic was a top-tier magazine of long pedigree. Why then is it so poorly copy-edited? Three examples:
    [1] The problem is not with the science per se, but with the set of an [sic] underlying assumptions about race that we always imprint on the latest science.
    [2] The trouble with the way we talk about race is that our biological differences are by degree rather [than] by category.
    [3] President Roosevelt decided to count Mexicans as white in that year’s census [in] order to shore up Mexican relations.

    That’s not copyediting, they’re selecting facts to fit their argument. Which every journal of opinion does. (Look at Breitbart.)

    You could definitely still support affirmative action if you believed in HBD–in fact it’s almost necessary since racial differences are thus impossible to ameliorate without genetic engineering. But why drop to the fall-back position if they don’t have to? Enough people believe that race does not exist, or at least pretend to.

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  205. …an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.

    Yes, Miss Zhang. Explain it to your Chinese mom after you bring home a black African boyfriend, and declare to her your intention to have his baby in order to continue the clan. Let us know what she says about it. Then take him to China in order to show off what you’ve done. I’m sure you will receive a warm reception from the locals. Just another “educated” youngster denying reality.

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  206. @emjr

    If The Atlantic wants to disempower Stormfront
     
    Does Steve Sailer?

    Stormfront is full of idiots but my philosophy is not to punch right, and I imagine that is Sailer’s philosophy.

    When one’s political beliefs are three standard deviations to the right of the mean, only a fool would attack someone to the right.

    Do leftists ever criticize the extreme left?

    In 2045 when the culture wars have been won by race-realists, then Steve will likely be on the political left when it comes to race. You can ask him then what he’s doing to fight the powerless stormtards.

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  207. @Steve Sailer
    Best Hollywood movie stars in recent years from more obscure racial / ethnic groups:

    American Indian - Graham Greene (e.g., stole "Maverick" from Mel Gibson, Jodie Foster, and James Garner -- not the English Catholic novelist)

    Maori - Cliff Curtis

    Samoan - The Rock

    Mexican-American - The best guy in his prime right now is Michael Pena

    Arab-American - Tony Shalhoub; Vince Vaughn is 1/4th Lebanese

    Puerto Ricans -- Benicio Del Toro

    Armenian-Americans: Oddly, there don't seem to be many at present. Among actresses, Cher is half Armenian and won an Oscar, but that was three decades ago

    Gypsies -- You see a lot of different claims for actors being part Roma, most notably Charlie Chaplin. Maybe the most plausible is that the late Bob Hoskins was 1/4th Gypsy

    Irish Travelers -- Don't see anybody I've heard of.

    Parsi -- Don't know of any current ones. In the past, perhaps Vivien Leigh? She was born in Darjeeling in the foothills of Himalayas north of Calcutta: her maternal grandfather had the unusual name of Yackjee:

    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/09/vivien-leigh-again.php

    Note: Looking at this list, I see that I'm biased toward actors over actresses, and biased toward character actors who become semi-stars through force of personality.

    Met many Lebanese and Croats who pass themselves off as Italian. With Croats, the last names are a giveaway, with suffixes like “-ovic”. With Lebanese, cannot even tell. And really the differences in most ways that matter are minimal-all are Catholic and Mediterranean. In the US though “Italian” typically means descended from southern Italy, Naples or Sicily.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Met many Lebanese and Croats who pass themselves off as Italian. With Croats, the last names are a giveaway, with suffixes like “-ovic”. With Lebanese, cannot even tell."

    Lebanese last names are extremely different from Italian last names. Anybody who has at least an Italian father would not have a last name like Haddad and Shalhoub for example.

    There is however overlap between Italian, Portuguese, and Spanish last names. The last names Torres and Franco for example can be found among Italians and Iberians.

  208. @Kyle McKenna

    What subject would the Alt-Right clash with Stormfront?
     
    I can't speak directly for either group, but the folks at Breitbart consider themselves alt-right (with a few exceptions) and you'll search far and wide before you'll find a group more monolithic (and vitriolic) in their support of Likud et al. That's a pretty fundamental clash.

    The Breitbart denizens want war with each and every one of Israel's enemies, they want it now, and this includes potential enemies and imaginary enemies, etc etc. "Alt-Right" is either a very large umbrella now or, as has been suggested above, has lost much of its meaning.

    the folks at Breitbart consider themselves alt-right (with a few exceptions)

    Do they? Milo wrote that famous article claiming the alt-right was all a bunch of jokers that was Anglin’s excuse to get mad at him, but I haven’t seen them actually describe themselves that way. A quick search through their archives mostly reveals them making fun of Hillary’s speech about it and, well, Milo.

    Apart from the obvious (Jews), Breitbart is more moderate than the alt-right on racial issues–they tend to concentrate on issues of reverse discrimination, whereas the alt-right hold discrimination is OK as a method of expression of a racial group’s self-determination.

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    • Replies: @snorlax
    The Breitbart crowd is pretty much all-around more moderate. The other day Breitbart ran a puff piece on the girl who's singing at Trump's inauguration, where she mentions at one point that she has a (presumably MtF) transgender sister.

    When I read them the first couple pages of Breitbart comments were all praise for the singer with nobody mentioning the sibling. Whereas there's no way that wouldn't have been the main (and overwhelmingly negative) topic of the comments here at Sailer's, and still more so at any of the places that still embrace the term "alt-right."
  209. @Steve Sailer
    Best Hollywood movie stars in recent years from more obscure racial / ethnic groups:

    American Indian - Graham Greene (e.g., stole "Maverick" from Mel Gibson, Jodie Foster, and James Garner -- not the English Catholic novelist)

    Maori - Cliff Curtis

    Samoan - The Rock

    Mexican-American - The best guy in his prime right now is Michael Pena

    Arab-American - Tony Shalhoub; Vince Vaughn is 1/4th Lebanese

    Puerto Ricans -- Benicio Del Toro

    Armenian-Americans: Oddly, there don't seem to be many at present. Among actresses, Cher is half Armenian and won an Oscar, but that was three decades ago

    Gypsies -- You see a lot of different claims for actors being part Roma, most notably Charlie Chaplin. Maybe the most plausible is that the late Bob Hoskins was 1/4th Gypsy

    Irish Travelers -- Don't see anybody I've heard of.

    Parsi -- Don't know of any current ones. In the past, perhaps Vivien Leigh? She was born in Darjeeling in the foothills of Himalayas north of Calcutta: her maternal grandfather had the unusual name of Yackjee:

    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/09/vivien-leigh-again.php

    Note: Looking at this list, I see that I'm biased toward actors over actresses, and biased toward character actors who become semi-stars through force of personality.

    Arabs are an obscure ethnic group?

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  210. @Hepp
    The 0.1% canard is so fricking stupid it never stops bothering me. Apparently, 0.1% difference is enough that there's no physical overlap between Koreans, Nigerians and Swedes. On physically appearance there isn't even overlapping bell curves. So why can't 0.1% of variation mean that there are substantial differences in average intelligence and personality? What % variation between races would indicate IQ differences? 0.4%? 6.2%?

    Another childless woman talking nonsense.

    I wouldn’t say none. Björk could probably pass for a native Korean. She’s not Swedish but damn close.

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    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    Third leg to that stool, about partway between the two.
    Saame difference, perhaps?
    , @Pericles
    I'd say Björk looks Sami more than anything else.
  211. @Opinionator
    It's said that Euros and Orientals have about 3-5 percent Neanderthal DNA, which Africans lack. Yet the difference between a Euro and, say, an African is about 0.1 percent. How are these two facts reconciled?

    Excellent point. My 23&Me results report that I have about 4% Neanderthal genes … “314 Neanderthal variants, which is more than 94% of 23&Me Customers.” I’ve read that populations native to the sub-Saharan region do not have Neanderthal DNA. If the 23&Me data is correct, then the claim that all humans differ in only .01% DNA cannot be true.

    I’ve also read that there are genes that control other genes. If this is the case, then these “controller genes” (however few in number) can potentially have a more significant impact on gene expression than conclusions one might draw from one-on-one DNA mappings.

    The most telling argument for significant impacts in gene expression and variation governing social behavior and intelligence emanating from a few differences in DNA is how genetically close humans are to chimpanzees. Very few genes (whether in chimpanzees or humans) can apparently drive very significant variations in genetic expression … variations marked enough to justify the category for sorting human beings called “races”.

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  212. @International Jew

    Closing the doors on the laughable pamphlet called the Atlantic
     
    Give 'em credit for remaining one of the last left-of-center sites to still tolerate comments, indeed to tolerate alt-rightish comments. In fact I notice that there aren't many leftists commenting there at all anymore; it's weird.

    Would you or many others have characterized them as left-of-center ten or even five years ago? It seems it has become more cancer filled during Hussein’s second term.

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    • Replies: @International Jew
    Yeah, I guess they've been swept up in the Zeitgeist somewhat ;)
  213. @dearieme
    “an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.”

    I've noticed a tendency to mislead, presumably deliberately, on matters pertaining to Africans by silently confusing the matter of (i) black peoples from south of the Sahara with (ii) the swarthy white peoples who live north of that desert, and (iii) the peoples who live in the Horn of Africa i.e. roughly east of that desert.

    I dare say that there are examples of (ii) who are more closely related to SW Asians than to (i).

    There’s also the example of Madagascar, initially populated by Austronesians, coming from Africa to SE Asia and then (by boat) all the way back… before E Africans on the mainland crossed into Madagascar and interbred. So there would be some similarity with some Madagascarans and New Guineans, for example. And you have the ‘relic’ Negritos of the Andaman Islands near India, who might be more closely related to certain SSAs than intra-SSA comparisons. Of course a distinction can be made between Bantus and Berbers, as you allude to.

    So in some technicalities, Zhang could have a point. But the _implications_, that some random Congolese Bantu could be more related to a Han Chinese than his own neighbor, and the larger we’re-all-identical narrative, are absurd.

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    • Replies: @backup
    Andamanese - Onge - are mostly related to East-Asians and not specifically related to Africans:

    www.nature.com/ng/journal/v48/n9/full/ng.3621.html
    http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v48/n9/extref/ng.3621-S1.pdf
    (Page 27, Results)

  214. @Daniel Chieh
    We have our ideological blind spots, but that's not one of them. On the other hand, you'll be amazed at the amount of effort that goes into trying to prove that we didn't come from Africa.

    Sigh.

    The entire reality of human evolution is probably unpalatable to 99.999% of the earth’s population. Either through religious delusions, delusions about racial superiority or delusions about racial equality, few people would like to believe that humans evolved, humans are evolving and that significant genetically-determined differences in median behavior and cognition exist between populations. I guess I’ll have to add “WE WUZNT AFRICANZ” to the list of delusions some people hold.

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  215. @Opinionator
    It's said that Euros and Orientals have about 3-5 percent Neanderthal DNA, which Africans lack. Yet the difference between a Euro and, say, an African is about 0.1 percent. How are these two facts reconciled?

    The avg. genetic difference between homo sapiens and Neanderthals is only 0.2%.

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  216. @SFG
    the folks at Breitbart consider themselves alt-right (with a few exceptions)

    Do they? Milo wrote that famous article claiming the alt-right was all a bunch of jokers that was Anglin's excuse to get mad at him, but I haven't seen them actually describe themselves that way. A quick search through their archives mostly reveals them making fun of Hillary's speech about it and, well, Milo.

    Apart from the obvious (Jews), Breitbart is more moderate than the alt-right on racial issues--they tend to concentrate on issues of reverse discrimination, whereas the alt-right hold discrimination is OK as a method of expression of a racial group's self-determination.

    The Breitbart crowd is pretty much all-around more moderate. The other day Breitbart ran a puff piece on the girl who’s singing at Trump’s inauguration, where she mentions at one point that she has a (presumably MtF) transgender sister.

    When I read them the first couple pages of Breitbart comments were all praise for the singer with nobody mentioning the sibling. Whereas there’s no way that wouldn’t have been the main (and overwhelmingly negative) topic of the comments here at Sailer’s, and still more so at any of the places that still embrace the term “alt-right.”

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    • Replies: @snorlax
    I should say it's possible the moderators were deleting those comments (which still would represent a major difference between Breitbart and more alt-righty outlets). Probably not though, because their moderation doesn't seem to be particularly aggressive.

    I think the Breitbart readers are more "politically"-oriented than alt-righters or Sailer readers or even most readers of mainstream conservative publications. Meaning they put a lot of value in keeping "on message."

    Breitbart comments overwhelmingly express agreement with the points in the article, while half of Sailer's comments will be a-holes like me quibbling with everything. They also tend to be all praise for fellow Trump supporters, including (especially?) when they break the typical mold.
    , @AndrewR
    Not sure why that would have been "the main (and overwhelmingly negative) topic of the comments here at Sailer’s."
    , @BB753
    Here we go:

    http://www.advocate.com/transgender/2016/12/15/teen-singing-trumps-inauguration-familiar-anti-trans-bullying

    This year is definitely the "Year of the Trans" ( sing to the tune of The Year of the Cat)!
  217. This chick had to have been born in America. No Chinese-born lady could lie this much to either herself or others. They have not been at the same Orange/Red high-alert stupidity level that we are at since the 1966-1976 cultural revolution.

    I don’t think even China in the midst of that period was even a TSA-Stupid-Level-Yellow (well, maybe yellow is the default – hey, no offense intended, I’m just sayin’). Now an American lady in the midst of her period – that is off the charts sometimes – goes to Red in a heartbeat.

    Must … quit … the …… offense … ive ..
    …. com ……entssss …….. sides … aching …… Scotty
    … you can … beam me … ahahahhha … [/Captn Kirk]

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  218. @Daniel Chieh
    Well, to be fair, laypeople also think the world is flat. So "common sense" can be vastly incorrect.

    But this is going well into insanity to try to demonstrate "facts" that are entirely unbased in science. What's next? The scientific proof that "all men are created equal and have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?"

    The Catholic Church would approve.

    “laypeople also think the world is flat”: to a good approximation that belief is a strange American nonsense that was promoted by Washington Irving.

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  219. @snorlax
    The Breitbart crowd is pretty much all-around more moderate. The other day Breitbart ran a puff piece on the girl who's singing at Trump's inauguration, where she mentions at one point that she has a (presumably MtF) transgender sister.

    When I read them the first couple pages of Breitbart comments were all praise for the singer with nobody mentioning the sibling. Whereas there's no way that wouldn't have been the main (and overwhelmingly negative) topic of the comments here at Sailer's, and still more so at any of the places that still embrace the term "alt-right."

    I should say it’s possible the moderators were deleting those comments (which still would represent a major difference between Breitbart and more alt-righty outlets). Probably not though, because their moderation doesn’t seem to be particularly aggressive.

    I think the Breitbart readers are more “politically”-oriented than alt-righters or Sailer readers or even most readers of mainstream conservative publications. Meaning they put a lot of value in keeping “on message.”

    Breitbart comments overwhelmingly express agreement with the points in the article, while half of Sailer’s comments will be a-holes like me quibbling with everything. They also tend to be all praise for fellow Trump supporters, including (especially?) when they break the typical mold.

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    • Replies: @SFG
    I'd believe that. They seem to have decided to hitch their car to the Trump train, whatever else may come (just ask Ben Shapiro).

    It's working for them so far.
  220. Articles like this are what happens when people with no training in philosophy unwittingly try to discuss metaphysics. It’s easy to argue “race does not exist” simply by making a complete hash of the Problem of Universals. Under a sufficiently extreme strain of Nominalism, race really doesn’t exist- and neither does any other classification, grouping, set, or category. “A beach-ball may be more closely related to an armoire than to another beach-ball“.

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  221. @Jefferson
    "North African Caucasoids are closer to Aztecs and Koreans than to sub Saharan Africans."

    Most North Africans have some Sub Saharan African DNA, hence why they are not capable of creating prosperous 1st World societies.

    “Most North Africans have some Sub Saharan African DNA, hence why they are not capable of creating prosperous 1st World societies.” But they participated successfully in a first world society as Romans at a time when most of my ancestors didn’t and perhaps yours didn’t either.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "But they participated successfully in a first world society as Romans at a time when most of my ancestors didn’t and perhaps yours didn’t either."

    Ancient Romans were Italian Europeans, not North Africans.
    , @syonredux

    “Most North Africans have some Sub Saharan African DNA, hence why they are not capable of creating prosperous 1st World societies.” But they participated successfully in a first world society as Romans at a time when most of my ancestors didn’t and perhaps yours didn’t either.
     
    My understanding is that the percentage of SSA ancestry in North Africa has gone up since the Muslim Conquest. So, when North Africa was part of the Roman Empire, the natives probably had significantly less SSA admixture.
  222. @Faceless Prognosticator
    Race may not be important, but intelligence is:
    http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/12/predictions-of-human-intelligence.html#more

    Race is a proxy for identity which is used to line up for benefits or tribal banding for support.

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  223. The reality for the SJW’s is that they will not be capable of shutting down genetic research, and it will continue to sharpen the differences and rule out blank slate environmentalism as plausible human explanation.

    Just as conservative Christians were freaked out at the possibilities for fornication created by the automobile, our SJW will have to cope with the reality that some version of so-called “scientific racism” will be irrefutable in 10-15 years.

    We didn’t know, until recently, that Europeans and Asians bred with distinct humanoid populations, and have retained significant genetic contributions from those populations that make them genetically distinct from Africans. Since we all have Darwin Fish on our cars, we have to presume that the genes that survived survived because they were adaptive to local environments. In addition, we know that the African diaspora happened earlier then previously believed, and contrary to assertions, we know that human populations continue to operate under principles of natural selection, and conditions of civilization actually speed up the process, and that evolutionary change can happen on a shorter scale then previously believed (e.g. wolf/coyote speciation in ~50K years).

    Most ridiculous is the claim that there is only .1 percent difference between humans (SJW’s always lie), when estimates place it at about .5 percent (and difference between humans and chimps at 2 percent). So other population groups are about 1/4 as distant as chimps.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_genetic_variation

    I know modern liberalism is a theology, but like fundamentalist Christians, I think they need to seriously ask themselves how they intend on proceeding in the face of increasing scientific data.

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    • Replies: @SFG
    our SJW will have to cope with the reality that some version of so-called “scientific racism” will be irrefutable in 10-15 years.

    They'll just make it 'unethical' to study the areas in question. Take any standard online ethics training (CITI comes to mind)--it's unethical to perform research on a 'vulnerable group' which might expose them to discrimination.
    , @anon

    I know modern liberalism is a theology, but like fundamentalist Christians, I think they need to seriously ask themselves how they intend on proceeding in the face of increasing scientific data.
     
    Some will try to make it more heretical and crank up the enforcement.

    Others will come to realise that none of their political objectives can be achieved without genetics (hence why genetics used to be a progressive thing).
    , @gcochran
    "So other population groups are about 1/4 as distant as chimps. "


    More like a sixtieth. But genetic distance doesn't matter - you can find species that have been separated for millions of years, are genetically pretty distant, but that look and act the same and have very similar ecological niches.

    What matters is how different the groups have become. You need at least some time for selection to generate significant differences, but human races have been separated far longer than that minimum. If you wanted to estimate how different races are from their genetics, you'd have to understand the function of every gene, every allele of every gene, and how they interact in development. Hard.

    If you want to see how fast a Thoroughbred is compared to a quarter hose, don't look at the genes. Run a race.

    If you want to see how different people from different races are, just look at life its own self.
  224. @Steve Sailer
    Best Hollywood movie stars in recent years from more obscure racial / ethnic groups:

    American Indian - Graham Greene (e.g., stole "Maverick" from Mel Gibson, Jodie Foster, and James Garner -- not the English Catholic novelist)

    Maori - Cliff Curtis

    Samoan - The Rock

    Mexican-American - The best guy in his prime right now is Michael Pena

    Arab-American - Tony Shalhoub; Vince Vaughn is 1/4th Lebanese

    Puerto Ricans -- Benicio Del Toro

    Armenian-Americans: Oddly, there don't seem to be many at present. Among actresses, Cher is half Armenian and won an Oscar, but that was three decades ago

    Gypsies -- You see a lot of different claims for actors being part Roma, most notably Charlie Chaplin. Maybe the most plausible is that the late Bob Hoskins was 1/4th Gypsy

    Irish Travelers -- Don't see anybody I've heard of.

    Parsi -- Don't know of any current ones. In the past, perhaps Vivien Leigh? She was born in Darjeeling in the foothills of Himalayas north of Calcutta: her maternal grandfather had the unusual name of Yackjee:

    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/09/vivien-leigh-again.php

    Note: Looking at this list, I see that I'm biased toward actors over actresses, and biased toward character actors who become semi-stars through force of personality.

    Graham Greene

    He’s formidable as the heavy in Longmire.

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  225. @snorlax
    I should say it's possible the moderators were deleting those comments (which still would represent a major difference between Breitbart and more alt-righty outlets). Probably not though, because their moderation doesn't seem to be particularly aggressive.

    I think the Breitbart readers are more "politically"-oriented than alt-righters or Sailer readers or even most readers of mainstream conservative publications. Meaning they put a lot of value in keeping "on message."

    Breitbart comments overwhelmingly express agreement with the points in the article, while half of Sailer's comments will be a-holes like me quibbling with everything. They also tend to be all praise for fellow Trump supporters, including (especially?) when they break the typical mold.

    I’d believe that. They seem to have decided to hitch their car to the Trump train, whatever else may come (just ask Ben Shapiro).

    It’s working for them so far.

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  226. Scott Adams was regularly pointing out that bizarre beliefs, those of head scratching incomprehensibility, are tells for cognitive dissonance.

    The underlying problem on which they base the social construct model makes sense only if you very narrowly define race as a specific set of genes. Yet evolution is defined as change in the inherited traits of a population, http://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evolution-is-change-in-the-inherited-traits-15164254 . At the genetic level it is measured by gene frequency https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/allele_frequency.htm .
    That a person comes from this population does not mean he or she (or xhe) possesses a specific set of genes. At this level, race is a population trait rather than an individual trait. Nonetheless, the racial grouping is useful, for example assessing risk of genetic diseases such as Tay-Sachs, Sickle-Cell, Cystic Fibrosis, blood clotting factors, and so forth.

    When pressed, the argument descends into the subjective matter of describing a specific degree of variability that defines race or that there is no unique definition of the races. The more generic approach to uncertainty and messiness is using rough sets

    http://bcpw.bg.pw.edu.pl/Content/2026/RoughSetsRep29.pdf

    https://www.researchgate.net/post/What_is_the_difference_between_Fuzzy_rough_sets_and_Rough_fuzzy_sets

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  227. @snorlax
    The Breitbart crowd is pretty much all-around more moderate. The other day Breitbart ran a puff piece on the girl who's singing at Trump's inauguration, where she mentions at one point that she has a (presumably MtF) transgender sister.

    When I read them the first couple pages of Breitbart comments were all praise for the singer with nobody mentioning the sibling. Whereas there's no way that wouldn't have been the main (and overwhelmingly negative) topic of the comments here at Sailer's, and still more so at any of the places that still embrace the term "alt-right."

    Not sure why that would have been “the main (and overwhelmingly negative) topic of the comments here at Sailer’s.”

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  228. My take on the ‘African more closely related to Asian’ trope is that it must refer to the Negritos. For instance, an Andamanese Negrito could essentially be a cousin to a Bushman (or Koi-Koi as I believe they are properly referred to now) while having nothing whatsoever in common genetically with another “Asian.” If the Andamans are not Asian enough for you, there are–or were–Negritos in Taiwan, Thailand, the Philippines and possibly elsewhere snugly in Asia.

    So the African/Asian thing is hugely dishonest, but stops a corkscrew hair short of being an outright lie. I think one must take a pretty broad view of what it means to be an Asian to accept it as other than a lie, but there you have it.

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    • Replies: @ogunsiron
    I don't think it's that complicated.
    They want people to believe that a random irishman is reasonably likely to be genetically closer to some dude from Sierra-Leone than to his neighbors in the same irish village. It's that stupid and absurd.

    From what I've read, Andamanese do clustter with asians. They look like what asians used to look like 50000 years ago, back when there maybe was much less differentiation in looks between various homo sapiens populations.
  229. @George
    “an African man may be more closely related to an Asian than to another African.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Genetic_Diversity:_Lewontin's_Fallacy

    "the Sahara"

    This might be the counter-argument. If you just look at facial features as you travel around from say Germany through Turkey to Egypt, Somalia, Kenya, the rest of Africa, the transition from German to Black African is very slow. America's #1 Somali, Minn. State Rep. Ilhan Omar looks basically like a White person, except for her skin color and hair coarseness. Her skin color is not much darker than darker Mediterranean Europeans. So going from Germany to Kenya there is no sharp racial geographic boundary. Are Somalis African or European?

    I think it works out the same way if you travel down the Atlantic from Spain to Nigeria along the coast.

    “State Rep. Ilhan Omar looks basically like a White person, except for her skin color and hair coarseness.”

    Let’s say she looks like a mulatta. Would you say she looked basically white if her name was Shaniqua Jackson?

    “So going from Germany to Kenya there is no sharp racial geographic boundary”

    Well, there’s the Mediterranean, unless you choose to cross the Bosphorus instead and travel down to Somalia through the Middle East into Africa.
    There’s a quite dramatic racial transition if you travel from Iberia or Sicily to North Africa, notwithstanding popular myths. Much sharper than crossing either the Pyrenees or the Alps into the Iberian or Italian Peninsulas.

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    • Replies: @George
    "Let’s say she looks like a mulatta."

    The people in the horn of Africa have very fine features. Rep Omar is part Yemeni so she has a Semitic look. But if you gave her white skin and fine hair should would be white. Which is my point, the boundry between the races was always permeable.

    Recent archeological discoveries also indicate there was contact between Europe and Africa. If there was trade there could have been marriage or at least sex.

    Glass beads link King Tutankhamun and Bronze Age Nordic women
    http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/glass-beads-link-king-tutankhamun-and-bronze-age-nordic-women-002450

    Why was Ancient Middle Eastern Bitumen Discovered in an Anglo-Saxon Boat Burial at Sutton Hoo, England?

    http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/why-was-ancient-middle-eastern-bitumen-discovered-anglo-saxon-boat-burial-021089
  230. @snorlax
    The Breitbart crowd is pretty much all-around more moderate. The other day Breitbart ran a puff piece on the girl who's singing at Trump's inauguration, where she mentions at one point that she has a (presumably MtF) transgender sister.

    When I read them the first couple pages of Breitbart comments were all praise for the singer with nobody mentioning the sibling. Whereas there's no way that wouldn't have been the main (and ove