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Peter Jackson & Guillermo del Toro

Movies usually take at least two years to go from conception to completion, even with all the money in the world behind them. For example, the sequel to the August 2014 surprise hit Guardians of the Galaxy arrived in theaters in May 2017, 33 months after the original.

So, it’s obvious that all the Oscar-bait movies currently debuting on the festival circus were conceived of no earlier than November 9, 2016. Or at least that’s the impression we are supposed to get …

From The Atlantic:

How This Year’s Oscar Contenders Are Tackling Trump

Some of the biggest hits—and one notable flop—at the Toronto International Film Festival played as blunt allegories for the current political moment.

DAVID SIMS 1:23 PM ET CULTURE

When introducing his new movie The Shape of Water at the Toronto International Film Festival last week, the director Guillermo del Toro was clear about the message he wanted to convey. The Shape of Water is a romantic, grown-up fairytale, where a mute woman (Sally Hawkins) working at a secret government facility in 1962 falls in love with a sea creature (Doug Jones) that’s being held there against its will. It’s a story of empathy triumphing over prejudice, one where the facility’s villainous supervisor (Michael Shannon) is largely driven by hatred of what he doesn’t understand.

… When discussing The Shape of Water, del Toro (who is Mexican) has been equally upfront about how its sea creature is a stand-in for “the other,” or the outsider, in any kind of political situation. As this year’s Oscar race kicks off, del Toro’s movie is resonating—it won the Golden Lion at the Venice Film Festival. It’s also part of a larger trend in political and allegorical mainstream filmmaking, where directors are plainly and loudly tackling the Trump administration, some with more grace than others.

… This year, a sizable chunk of the festival’s biggest hits have a few key things in common—they’re coming out in the first full year of the Trump administration, they’re deeply topical despite many of them being period pieces covering unfortunate historical events, and they have all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

… But The Shape of Water is more directly applicable to the current debate raging over the White House’s hardline immigration policies and the emergence of the alt-right. Del Toro hasn’t shied away from that interpretation, saying of Shannon’s villain, “He doesn’t see anyone because his arrogance is so big. … It speaks about the issue we have today that choosing fear over love is a disaster.” When asked about the current political climate, he said, “It’s like a cancer. We have a tumor now. That doesn’t mean the cancer started with that tumor. It was gestating for so long.”

In dramatizing America’s idealized past in The Shape of Water, del Toro tries to get at the root of problems in the present. The film takes place in the ’60s, when the country is a forward-looking superpower, but the story is set largely within a darker underbelly. “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”

Guillermo del Toro knows because he is a famous Person of Color, as you can tell from these photos of him with Peter Jackson, Ryan Gosling, and Michael Shannon. Del Toro’s dad owned an automobile manufacturing company in Mexico, which means that Guillermo knows all about racism and oppression. Del Toro’s dad was kidnapped in Guadalajara and held for ransom for $1 million for 72 days, until Guillermo’s friend James Cameron paid it.

Who here can’t identify with having James Cameron pay your industrialist dad’s ransom? It’s practically a rite of passage.

Del Toro may look like a Hobbit, but his ancestry comes from the extreme northern border region of The Shire, so that makes him The Other.

Del Toro hasn’t lived in his native Mexico since his father’s kidnapping, but that just makes him more aware of how racist you are for having doubts about not welcoming so many Mexicans to America.

 
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  1. The film takes place in the ’60s, when the country is a forward-looking superpower, but the story is set largely within a darker underbelly. “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”

    Why are they peddling this daft fantasy? My grandmother fled Ukraine in the late 1940s to America junior (Canada), was obviously not Anglo-Protestant, and by all accounts had a great life during the 60′s and was eternally greatful to be living here. It goes without saying, that many White Anglo-Saxon Protestants were not exactly living the life of riley in Appalachia either.

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    • Replies: @Kylie
    Exactly. My grandparents came over from Vienna in the early 20th century. Pop was an orthodox Serb and Granny was a Catholic Croat. They were very warmly regarded by their more typically "American" neighbors, even though having dark skin and thick accents, they were noticeably foreign.
    , @Vrin Marbleye
    "Why are they peddling this daft fantasy?"

    Why do they do anything? Because doing so nets them more power over everyone.
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  2. ziel says:

    “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”

    I can assure Senor Del Toro that the 60′s were a pretty great time to be growing up in America if you were a Catholic and, from my observations of my classmates, it was pretty freakin’ great if you were Jewish as well.

    “Well I’m so glad I’m livin’ in the USA” – Chuck Berry, 1964.

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    • Replies: @peterike

    I can assure Senor Del Toro that the 60′s were a pretty great time to be growing up in America if you were a Catholic and, from my observations of my classmates, it was pretty freakin’ great if you were Jewish as well.

     

    Hell, it was even pretty great to be black in America in the 1960s, until Lyndon Johnson sent it all to hell and the blacks let the Jews use them as resentful shock troops in their eternal Hate Whitey campaign (which went by the name of the "Civil Rights Movement," which was neither civil, nor concerned with rights).
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Early 1960s Detroit was probably the peak for black culture and broad-based prosperity.
    , @Seth Largo
    My Mexican Catholic grandparents and mother attained middle-class status in the 1960s after my grandfather got a job as an electrical tech with NASA. A great time for a lot of people.
    , @Hubbub
    Now, as an 80-year-old, I can remember the late fifties and early sixties as the last great period of optimism in the United States. A young person of any race or creed felt he could go places, do things, and be 'Somebody'. The Great Society destroyed that, as all government programs tend to do to anything positive.
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  3. Conquistador Mexicans have developed a neat trick where they ignore their own ancestors treatment of Mestizos and Amerindians in Mexico by harping on what Anglo-Celtic Americans have done in America.

    Deport the illegal alien infiltrators back to Mexico, turn off the safety valve, and then let the Mestizos and Amerindians in Mexico do what they will with the pasty-faced Conquistador Mexicans.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    People respond to incentives, and most Americans are dumb and lump all "Hispanics" together (just a day or two ago I saw someone on unz.com say Julian Castro looks just like Marco Rubio). So what incentive does a huwhite Hispanic have to identify with stale, pale wypipo and not the mestizos and Hispanicized indios his family ruled over back home?
    , @Wally
    Indeed, white Mexicans, think that being from Mexico gives them a free pass at everything.

    But then they always seem to be FROM Mexico, not IN Mexico.

    BTW: See photo of the Mexican Congress. More 'white' than the US Congress.

    , @Wilkey
    Conquistador Mexicans have developed a neat trick where they ignore their own ancestors treatment of Mestizos and Amerindians in Mexico by harping on what Anglo-Celtic Americans have done in America.

    Basically if you are white you are guilty for anything and everything every other white person has done for all of history, even if your particular ancestors fought against those evils. I get no credit for my white ancestors who fought for the Union, and Brits get no credit for standing alone against the Axis for 18 months.

    If you're a person of color (which used here includes Jews and mostly/entirely white "Hispanics") you aren't guilty of crimes being committed by your own people right this very minute. I am guilty of lynchings that happened a century ago, but del Toro is innocent of all the murders happening in Mexico and Central America this very minute. He is innocent of the Inquisition (but I am not). He is innocent of the mass slaughter his ancestors engaged in while conquering the Americas.
    , @Johnny Smoggins
    "Conquistador Mexicans have developed a neat trick where they ignore their own ancestors treatment of Mestizos and Amerindians in Mexico by harping on what Anglo-Celtic Americans have done in America"


    Kind of like the neat trick Jews have done by inventing the concept of "white privilege" when they, in fact, are the wealthiest and most powerful and nepotistic race in the world?
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  4. eah says:

    Could be mistaken for this guy:

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    • Replies: @Yak-15
    Big Tom Callahan from Sandusky, Ohio?
    , @The Millennial Falcon
    Is that the guy from the rat dog episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm?
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  5. Brutusale says:

    OT, Steve, but it seems your old MBA classmate is running with the biggest of dogs.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4902094/Buffett-joins-world-s-richest-85BILLION-photo.html

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  6. Forbes says:

    Born in ’64 and raised in Mexico, del Toro obviously knows all about the US in the ’60s. He’s an expert–just ask him, he’ll tell you…

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    • LOL: eah
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  7. syonredux says:

    The film takes place in the ’60s, when the country is a forward-looking superpower, but the story is set largely within a darker underbelly. “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”

    Yeah, I mean we all recall what a marginalized figure Frank Sinatra was in the ’60s…..It was so terribly unfortunate that being Italian hampered his career so severely….In a different, more enlightened America, he would have been a big star….

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    • Replies: @Anon
    And Dean and Sammy and Joey Bishop. Don't even ask about Desi Arnaz or Milton Berle. Carl Reiner suffered as did Danny Thomas, Phil Silvers, Jack Benny and George Burns. Hell of a time for non-WASPs.
    , @Tex
    There's a theory that the Kennedy family might have gone far in politics if it weren't for their crazy Catholicism.
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  8. syonredux says:

    So, it’s obvious that all the Oscar-bait movies currently debuting on the festival circus were conceived of no earlier than November 9, 2016. Or at least that’s the impression we are supposed to get …

    Yeah, sorta reminds me how we were supposed to believe that the businessman villain in the mediocre re-make of The Magnificent Seven was based on Trump:

    Principal photography on the film lasted 64 days, from March 18 to August 18, 2015, in the north of Baton Rouge, Louisiana.[34][35][36] Other locations include St. Francisville; Zachary, Louisiana; Ridgway, Colorado; and New Mexico.[11][35][36] Filming in St. Francisville was completed between May 18 and May 29, 2015

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magnificent_Seven_(2016_film)#Filming

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  9. AndrewR says:

    He may be white but he’s not a WASP. I obviously don’t buy his absurd claim that the US was only a great place for WASPs 55 years ago, but that doesn’t make him a WASP

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    He may be white but he’s not a WASP. I obviously don’t buy his absurd claim that the US was only a great place for WASPs 55 years ago, but that doesn’t make him a WASP
     
    No one's saying that he is. We're just mocking his belief that being a White Hispanic makes him an oppressed Person of Color.
    , @Johnny Smoggins
    Did I, (and apparently everyone else) miss the part where Steve said he was a WASP?
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  10. Danindc says:

    Del toro (who is Mexican) lol. Perfect. We may have some insiders at the NYTimes….probably not but it’s funny anyway

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  11. eah says:

    racism

    Soon they’ll be detecting it with ultrasound or an in utero EEG.

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    • Replies: @Percy Gryce
    I first read that as "deleting" it in utero. You scared me there for a minute.
    , @Clay Bishop
    I need to use this pic of the "racist baby" as my new avi!
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  12. syonredux says:
    @AndrewR
    He may be white but he's not a WASP. I obviously don't buy his absurd claim that the US was only a great place for WASPs 55 years ago, but that doesn't make him a WASP

    He may be white but he’s not a WASP. I obviously don’t buy his absurd claim that the US was only a great place for WASPs 55 years ago, but that doesn’t make him a WASP

    No one’s saying that he is. We’re just mocking his belief that being a White Hispanic makes him an oppressed Person of Color.

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    • Replies: @Lurker
    If Guillermo del Toro had started calling himself William Bull and claimed all his ancestors hailed from England would anyone even have noticed?

    Does he have any Amerindian ancestry at all?

    Why is he leaving all that juicy white WASPy privilege on the table?

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  13. AndrewR says:
    @Charles Pewitt
    Conquistador Mexicans have developed a neat trick where they ignore their own ancestors treatment of Mestizos and Amerindians in Mexico by harping on what Anglo-Celtic Americans have done in America.

    Deport the illegal alien infiltrators back to Mexico, turn off the safety valve, and then let the Mestizos and Amerindians in Mexico do what they will with the pasty-faced Conquistador Mexicans.

    People respond to incentives, and most Americans are dumb and lump all “Hispanics” together (just a day or two ago I saw someone on unz.com say Julian Castro looks just like Marco Rubio). So what incentive does a huwhite Hispanic have to identify with stale, pale wypipo and not the mestizos and Hispanicized indios his family ruled over back home?

    Read More
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  14. inertial says:

    The Shape of Water is a romantic, grown-up fairytale, where a mute woman (Sally Hawkins) working at a secret government facility in 1962 falls in love with a sea creature (Doug Jones) that’s being held there against its will. It’s a story of empathy triumphing over prejudice, one where the facility’s villainous supervisor (Michael Shannon) is largely driven by hatred of what he doesn’t understand.

    Wow, what an original concept! I hadn’t seen a movie like that in over five minutes. Does it have villagers with torches and pitchforks who are storming the secret government facility so that they kill the creature?

    I have a slightly different idea for a movie. There is a sea creature at a not so secret government facility. It’s not held against its will but lives there because they feed it. The creature acts truculent and says that it wants to kill people. Other parties, including foreign governments, warn that the creature is extremely dangerous. A nice, white, and definitely non-mute lady falls in love with the creature, or perhaps just adopts it as a pet. She convinces it to move to Boston, or perhaps Florida. The creature doesn’t like the food in the new place, so it grows unhappier by the day. It becomes violent but everyone ignores that because they are afraid they’d be called speciesist. Finally, the creature makes a bomb and blows up bystanders at a marathon. Or perhaps it goes to a gay nightclub and shoots dozens of patrons. Flies a plane into a building? Well, we can always hire a script doctor to help us with this part.

    Last scene of the movie: A hundred more of similar sea creatures arrive at the facility. The nice white lady jumps into the aquarium and embraces them all.

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    • LOL: Alec Leamas
    • Replies: @syonredux
    Guillermo del Toro is quite open about the fact that The Shape of Water is a riff on Jack Arnold's Creature From the Black Lagoon.

    Incidentally, Arnold directed some of the better horror and SF movies in the '50s: Creature From the Black Lagoon, It Came from Outer Space, Tarantula, and The Incredible Shrinking Man (my personal favorite).
    , @bomag
    Excellent ideas, but they are too close to real life, and we can't have any of that in our movies.
    , @Pointer Patrol
    Outstanding!
    , @Brutusale

    Last scene of the movie: A hundred more of similar sea creatures arrive at the facility. The nice white lady jumps into the aquarium and embraces them all.
     
    In the hard R version of the film, the last scene is the nice white lady being gang raped by the sea creatures after she jumps into the aquarium.
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  15. Yan Shen says:

    Sightly off topic but related to Mexico.

    Steve, any thoughts about the legitimacy of the United States annexing the Republic of Texas back in the day and ultimately gaining all of the territories ceded by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo at the conclusion of the Mexican American War? I’m not much of a historian, but my basic understanding as a Texan is that uh basically after Stephen F. Austin settled Texas with 300 families with the permission of the Mexican government, a steady stream of American immigrants migrated to the territory and soon outnumbered the native Spanish speakers, at which point the rest is history.

    Not that this would ever happen, but do you think there’s any validity to the Reconquista sentiments endorsed by some far left Hispanic activists? As an American who believes strongly in nationalism and what you might describe as citizenism, sometimes I find myself at odds with the history of my country.

    It’s always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    The Mexican-American War:

    1) Outnumber the gringos over 3 to 1*
    2) Fight on home ground
    3) Lose terribly
    4)???
    5) Claim moral victory

    Sounds like Hillary.
    , @syonredux

    Steve, any thoughts about the legitimacy of the United States annexing the Republic of Texas back in the day and ultimately gaining all of the territories ceded by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo at the conclusion of the Mexican American War?
     
    It's as legitimate as Mexico basing her national borders on lands that were conquered by the Spaniards. Or, for that matter, the People's Republic of China ruling over territories that were acquired by the Qing Dynasty....

    Not that this would ever happen, but do you think there’s any validity to the Reconquista sentiments endorsed by some far left Hispanic activists?
     
    Only if they are willing to restore sovereignty to the various Amerind tribes who lived in California, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and Nevada before the Spaniards intruded....

    It’s always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no?
     
    Not if the Mexicans operate according to the same hypocrisy......
    , @Harry Baldwin
    Perhaps this will be of interest:

    "As a proportion of the population, the active participation of Hispanic native and immigrant residents in the struggle for independence of Texas from Spain and Mexico was equal to or greater in specific battles than that of resident immigrants from the United States of the North."

    --Don Guillermo
    , @syonredux
    Don Diego does not exactly enjoy the moral high ground....


    RED RIVER:

    Dunson: Tell Don Diego, tell him that all the land north of that river’s mine. Tell him to stay off of it.
    Mexican: Oh, but the land is his.
    Dunson: Where did he get it?
    Mexican: Oh many years ago by grant and patent, inscribed by the King of all of Spain.
    Dunson: You mean he took it away from whomever was here before. Indians maybe.
    Mexican: Maybe so.
    Dunson: Well, I’m takin’ it away from him.
    Mexican: Others have thought as you, senor. Others have tried.
    Dunson: And you’ve always been good enough to stop ‘em?
    Mexican: Amigo, it is my work.
    Dunson: Pretty unhealthy job.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBPrLU4Zspo
    , @Neil Templeton
    "Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?"

    Not the only morality. For peaceful men it's the scorched earth option, for use only when all other options have been exhausted. For less complicated men it's the go-to option.
    , @David Davenport
    It’s always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no?

    Our American forefathers firmly believed in the self determination of the American people, including their determination to have more American life-space.

    Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    If God wanted the Spanish Americans and Native Americans to keep their land, why didn't He predestine then to have more military power?
    , @Daniel H
    >> Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    Yes and yes.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Yan Shen, are you American born, or did you immigrate? If you immigrated, were you an adult choosing to do so? Especially if the latter, you really should have no problem how America gained territory—you’re voluntarily living in the wake of American continental Manifest Destiny. If you (or your forebears) preferred the undiluted vibrancy of lower Aztlán, y’all should have immigrated to Mexico. Maybe you still can.

    There is no contradiction between Steve’s advocacy for citizenism in the here and now and a recognition that a past Mexican Government done goofed by allowing Anglo settlers to immigrate. Your answer is in your question—yes, national sovereignty must be maintained. People with different blood and different values may take over, to the detriment of the host nation.

    As to your greater query (and I’m not speaking for Steve here), but yeah, in the zero-sum game of real estate, who should prevail? It’s a simple who/whom question. If one prefers ‘Anglos,’ Yanquis should take the territory. If one prefers Mestizos and Indios, La Raza should rule the land. It ideally should be demographically either/or, also, not a mix of too many antagonists on the same plot, as Nancy Pelosi is finding out.

    Yankee Manifest Destiny had its natural limits:

    Senator John C. Calhoun of South Carolina, who had approved of the annexation of Texas, was opposed to the annexation of Mexico, as well as the "mission" aspect of manifest destiny, for racial reasons. He made these views clear in a speech to Congress on January 4, 1848:

    “We have never dreamt of incorporating into our Union any but the Caucasian race—the free white race. To incorporate Mexico, would be the very first instance of the kind, of incorporating an Indian race; for more than half of the Mexicans are Indians, and the other is composed chiefly of mixed tribes. I protest against such a union as that! Ours, sir, is the Government of a white race.... We are anxious to force free government on all; and I see that it has been urged ... that it is the mission of this country to spread civil and religious liberty over all the world, and especially over this continent. It is a great mistake.”
     
    While Calhoun was dead wrong in his advocacy of slavery, he was rightly against “invade the world, invite the world.”
    , @Seamus Padraig

    It’s always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no?
     
    Uh ... and how was modern Mexico founded? Do you think the Spaniards purchased all that land from the Aztecs? The Mayans? The Yaquí? In the case of Texas, we simply stole some land from a people who themselves had stolen it from the Indians. Among thieves, there is no honor.

    Don't get me wrong: I do have some sympathy for the Indians. But other colonial settlers (the Spanish, the French, the Portuguese, etc.) have absolutely no right to sit in judgement of Anglo-colonialism.

    , @Johnny Smoggins
    Interesting perspective........how would you say the annexation of Texas from Mexico is different from China's annexation of Tibet?
    , @AM

    It’s always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?
     
    I see you've had other, more thoughtful replies. Refer to them for convincing. I'll now add my own first thoughts

    Ha, ha, ha! Really? A check in about morality from an ethnicity that threw the dead bodies of forced labor into their Great Wall? (Otherwise you'd have to stop and bury them - what a waste) That annexed and colonized Tibet? That's probably using North Korea as a shield and weapon to get it what it wants economically on the world stage?

    Thanks for the help, but no thanks. Every land on the planet was conquered at some point. The Trumpian doctrine simply stated, is let's stay home, work on those problems, and be content. If US history bothers you that much, I'm sure the country that actually believes that might equals right would be happy to have you back.
    , @dwb
    Not going to go for the facile and silly "go back to China" retort. You state that you're an American, which is good enough for me, and the fact that you have a Chinese name does not require that you defend what China has or has not done. The history of China is irrelevant, and if it were, you are hardly responsible for whatever transgressions are alleged.

    So let's try to stick to the point.

    I am not entirely familiar with the history of Texas, but needless to say, much of the land of the southwest of the US was acquired under processes that today would be called "irregular."

    As others have said, if we want to apply standards of the past to behaviour of the current era, there is practically no country that can stand without hypocrisy and defend the legitimacy of its sovereignty. The US is not different.

    As to the "legitimacy" of the annexation of Texas, or of the Mexican War, or the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, in essence, you've hit the nail squarely that "might makes right." Or, as others say, the history book is written by the victors. The 1840s were a different time, and the actions that the US took were entirely within the "normal" parameters, and were unremarkable, of the era. They wouldn't fly today.

    Not really sure the point, however. IF the US were to decide that it had "stolen" lands, whom would they give back to? Mexico itself was a new nation that had taken its independence from Spain not long earlier, had dealt with instability, and whose claims to the territories beyond what is central Mexico today were shaky. And top it off, the Spanish themselves had made what became Mexico by invasion and conquering tribes who themselves had fought over land.

    This is not to excuse the pretty naked way that Texas and the West were obtained, but rather than context is important, and that we live in a different era.

    That said, while I understand the allegations of the so-called "reconquista," I don't have empathy for them, because we KNOW how the settling of Texas by Anglos worked out for Mexico.

    Some of the "alt right" are under fire now for claiming that they are being "replaced" through immigration. If one picks up any respectable newspaper, the idea that there is demographic replacement going on is mocked as the fevered thinking of neo-Nazis.

    Perhaps it is these folks who ought to be talking about empathy with the 'reconquista,' if it's a real thing.

    If it IS a real thing - if the goal of Latino activists is to settle in the US west until they reach sufficient numbers that they can agitate for a sort of "New New Mexico," then why would Americans, who now have the benefit of historical perspective, NOT stand in opposition. We saw how it worked out for the Native Americans (hint: not too well). We saw the result for Mexico.

    We would be stupid not to oppose.

    And FWIW, there is a fundamental difference - the goal of the Californios who raised the Bear Flag over San Jose was to turn California into an American state. Do you - or anyone else - actually think that the people who are pouring in to Texas and California really want to make them into Mexico? With the crime, corruption, and public infrastructure that currently exists in Mexico?

    It's simple, isn't it? Those Americans who settled in Texas wanted to make an otherwise pretty empty frontier area into something just like back home. Los Angeles is an established city, not a frontier, with millions of people living in it. It has roads, schools, cultural amenities (such as they are in Southern California). Mexicans settling in California today want to get away from Mexico as quickly as they can.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    I agree with commenter dwb that the fact that Texas was a frontier and the modern southwest is fully-formed is significant. However, there are also other historical circumstances that make Texas a bad example for your hypocrisy thesis. Ownership of the territory that is Texas went back and forth between France, Spain, Mexico, the Republic of Texas and the U.S. independent of the people living on the land. Some U.S. settlers claimed the territory was included in the Louisiana purchase, which is not completely unreasonable, and, importantly, Mexico allowed immigration from the U.S. prior to the Texan revolt.

    However, setting aside the issue of Texas per se, you fail to distinguish between state actors and individuals, between calls for free migration and claims of ownership, and between advocacy of the past and acceptance of the past. All of these things erode your "hypocrisy", not to mention the fact that Steve's Citizenism is a call for states to act in the interest of their current citizens, which is not incompatible with taking territory from other states while defending your own.

    I'd guess your hand-waving "everyone is a hypocrite" perspective is a sign your thinking is subverted by post-modern perspectives, which probably turns your Confucianism to shit.
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  16. Wally says:
    @Charles Pewitt
    Conquistador Mexicans have developed a neat trick where they ignore their own ancestors treatment of Mestizos and Amerindians in Mexico by harping on what Anglo-Celtic Americans have done in America.

    Deport the illegal alien infiltrators back to Mexico, turn off the safety valve, and then let the Mestizos and Amerindians in Mexico do what they will with the pasty-faced Conquistador Mexicans.

    Indeed, white Mexicans, think that being from Mexico gives them a free pass at everything.

    But then they always seem to be FROM Mexico, not IN Mexico.

    BTW: See photo of the Mexican Congress. More ‘white’ than the US Congress.

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    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    White Mexicans are upper class. They don't care about you and me (assuming that you and I are not upper class.)

    You will find this everywhere. The upper classes from every country have the same perspective on life and their entitlement. A lot of those assholes buy homes in America because it's a nice place. What they miss about their home countries is all the poor servants. They want more here.
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  17. Gremlins 2 was pretty transparently inspired by Donald Trump and it was a fun movie, especially for a sequel.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Real estate billionaire Daniel Clamp.
    , @duncsbaby
    As well in the movie the Donald Clamp character turns out to be a good guy.
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  18. Big Bill says:
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  19. Wait, Guillermo del Toro is Mexican? I always assumed he was Spanish, in large part because Pan’s Labyrinth was about the aftermath Spanish Civil War.

    That’s almost like an Australian making a movie about Reconstruction Era America, but even that doesn’t capture the cultural rift between Mexicans and Spanish.

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  20. Wilkey says:
    @Charles Pewitt
    Conquistador Mexicans have developed a neat trick where they ignore their own ancestors treatment of Mestizos and Amerindians in Mexico by harping on what Anglo-Celtic Americans have done in America.

    Deport the illegal alien infiltrators back to Mexico, turn off the safety valve, and then let the Mestizos and Amerindians in Mexico do what they will with the pasty-faced Conquistador Mexicans.

    Conquistador Mexicans have developed a neat trick where they ignore their own ancestors treatment of Mestizos and Amerindians in Mexico by harping on what Anglo-Celtic Americans have done in America.

    Basically if you are white you are guilty for anything and everything every other white person has done for all of history, even if your particular ancestors fought against those evils. I get no credit for my white ancestors who fought for the Union, and Brits get no credit for standing alone against the Axis for 18 months.

    If you’re a person of color (which used here includes Jews and mostly/entirely white “Hispanics”) you aren’t guilty of crimes being committed by your own people right this very minute. I am guilty of lynchings that happened a century ago, but del Toro is innocent of all the murders happening in Mexico and Central America this very minute. He is innocent of the Inquisition (but I am not). He is innocent of the mass slaughter his ancestors engaged in while conquering the Americas.

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    • Replies: @bomag

    Basically if you are white you are guilty for anything and everything every other white person has done for all of history
     
    That's really it. Only white people have agency; they are the caretakers, anyone else is their charge.

    This also stems from a sort of metastasized Christianity, where everyone (who matters) has sinned and fallen short of the grace of God, so they either have to abjectly plead for grace, or be punished forever for all those sins.
    , @jimbojones
    I know exactly where you are coming from. I'm a Slav. Slavs fought against Mongol and Turk invasions and occupations for almost 1000 years. The Turks enslaved millions of Slavs and extracted "blood tax" from them. (Look it up, it was a doozy.) The Nazis considered Slavs subhumans, and by 1945 practically all Slav people were fighting against the Nazis. (Maybe except for the Croats.)
    The Slavs had zero participation in the African slave trade, until recently most Slavs had never seen a black person except on television.
    Colonized nobody expect perhaps for the Chukchi.

    And yet Slavs are tagged as "white/Caucasians" and given all the baggage that goes with that.

    I'm considering participating in what Steve calls the "flight from white". "White" is now almost an ethnic slur. To hell with it; I'm Slav not white - we beat the Nazis and did neither colonialism nor slavery.

    In the same vein, I think many Americans can say things like: "I am Norwegian not white; we fought the Nazis and did neither colonialism nor slavery." Or "I am Irish not white; we suffered savage repression under the British and did neither colonialism nor slavery." Etc etc.
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  21. @Jokah Macpherson
    Gremlins 2 was pretty transparently inspired by Donald Trump and it was a fun movie, especially for a sequel.

    Real estate billionaire Daniel Clamp.

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  22. peterike says:
    @ziel
    “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”

    I can assure Senor Del Toro that the 60's were a pretty great time to be growing up in America if you were a Catholic and, from my observations of my classmates, it was pretty freakin' great if you were Jewish as well.

    "Well I'm so glad I'm livin' in the USA" - Chuck Berry, 1964.

    I can assure Senor Del Toro that the 60′s were a pretty great time to be growing up in America if you were a Catholic and, from my observations of my classmates, it was pretty freakin’ great if you were Jewish as well.

    Hell, it was even pretty great to be black in America in the 1960s, until Lyndon Johnson sent it all to hell and the blacks let the Jews use them as resentful shock troops in their eternal Hate Whitey campaign (which went by the name of the “Civil Rights Movement,” which was neither civil, nor concerned with rights).

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    • Replies: @ChrisZ
    There's a great movie idea lurking in that observation, Peter. It would take a subtle wit to pull it off--maybe involving some sci-fi element. An SJW time traveler goes back to 1962 to "right" all the perceived "wrongs," and finds it much better than advertised? He looks up all his old "heroes" (LBJ, etc.) to find out what went wrong, and discovers they're the villains who put things on the path to perdition?
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  23. Ok, it looks like someone went on to Google Images and colored del Toro’s eyes blue in nearly every picture. Must be some kind of WASP conspiracy.

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  24. Erik L says:

    Does anyone here know any black baby boomers? Could you ask them if it really sucked coming of age in the 1960s? I’ve always thought these “time travel would such for anyone who isn’t white” ideas are poorly thought through. Would a black time traveller hate Harlem in the 1920s? Seems like it would have been pretty great almost all the time; the 60s too. I mean sure maybe .1% of your waking hours you are getting hassled by the man and upset about the unfair voter test but the rest of the time weren’t you hanging with your friends and chasing tail?

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  25. Yak-15 says:
    @eah
    Could be mistaken for this guy:

    https://vz.cnwimg.com/thumbc-300x300/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Kevin-Farley.jpg

    Big Tom Callahan from Sandusky, Ohio?

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    • Replies: @eah
    Kevin Farley, younger brother of Chris (RIP).
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  26. syonredux says:
    @inertial

    The Shape of Water is a romantic, grown-up fairytale, where a mute woman (Sally Hawkins) working at a secret government facility in 1962 falls in love with a sea creature (Doug Jones) that’s being held there against its will. It’s a story of empathy triumphing over prejudice, one where the facility’s villainous supervisor (Michael Shannon) is largely driven by hatred of what he doesn’t understand.
     
    Wow, what an original concept! I hadn't seen a movie like that in over five minutes. Does it have villagers with torches and pitchforks who are storming the secret government facility so that they kill the creature?

    I have a slightly different idea for a movie. There is a sea creature at a not so secret government facility. It's not held against its will but lives there because they feed it. The creature acts truculent and says that it wants to kill people. Other parties, including foreign governments, warn that the creature is extremely dangerous. A nice, white, and definitely non-mute lady falls in love with the creature, or perhaps just adopts it as a pet. She convinces it to move to Boston, or perhaps Florida. The creature doesn't like the food in the new place, so it grows unhappier by the day. It becomes violent but everyone ignores that because they are afraid they'd be called speciesist. Finally, the creature makes a bomb and blows up bystanders at a marathon. Or perhaps it goes to a gay nightclub and shoots dozens of patrons. Flies a plane into a building? Well, we can always hire a script doctor to help us with this part.

    Last scene of the movie: A hundred more of similar sea creatures arrive at the facility. The nice white lady jumps into the aquarium and embraces them all.

    Guillermo del Toro is quite open about the fact that The Shape of Water is a riff on Jack Arnold’s Creature From the Black Lagoon.

    Incidentally, Arnold directed some of the better horror and SF movies in the ’50s: Creature From the Black Lagoon, It Came from Outer Space, Tarantula, and The Incredible Shrinking Man (my personal favorite).

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  27. The Shape of Water is a romantic, grown-up fairytale, where a mute woman (Sally Hawkins) working at a secret government facility in 1962 falls in love with a sea creature (Doug Jones) that’s being held there against its will.

    Sounds kind of like Splash (1984), starring Darryl Hannah as the sea creature and Tom Hanks as the man who loves her. I don’t recall anyone seeing that as an immigration allegory.

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    • Replies: @Forbes
    Harry, that's so last century--like ancient history. Nobody knows nothin' before, like, yesterday. Back then, you could make a fun movie that audiences watched and enjoyed. Today, it must be a serious political allegory that will be discussed, but no one will actually watch it--much less enjoy it.

    Here, it's fodder for entertaining riffs on Conquistador-Americans.
    , @Lagertha
    No, it was not immigration allegory; it was: If dweebish guy chooses to be loyal and nice, he just may "catch AND keep" the beautiful blonde. What I found hilarious was that the villain was a scientist! Haha, now with global climate change being sold everyday to us, it is interesting that Hollywood is shelving scientist-villains! - especially, biologists concentrating on flora and fauna. Genetics and AI, sure...there could be good bad guys, but sea creatures are sacred from now on. Darryl Hannah is still the stuff marine biologists went to sleep dreaming about, and probably many directors who think about water, oceans and stuff, climate-changey stuff.
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  28. Bubba says:

    Maybe Del Toro can make a movie about the absolute hellhole Mexico would have become in 2017 if America built a real wall along the Mexican border 50 years ago. Mexicans like Del Toro and his family would have been massacred along with millions in the ensuing revolution. It’s no secret that unlimited Mexican immigration to the United States for 50 years has helped Mexico avoid another bloody civil war.

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  29. @Yan Shen
    Sightly off topic but related to Mexico.

    Steve, any thoughts about the legitimacy of the United States annexing the Republic of Texas back in the day and ultimately gaining all of the territories ceded by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo at the conclusion of the Mexican American War? I'm not much of a historian, but my basic understanding as a Texan is that uh basically after Stephen F. Austin settled Texas with 300 families with the permission of the Mexican government, a steady stream of American immigrants migrated to the territory and soon outnumbered the native Spanish speakers, at which point the rest is history.

    Not that this would ever happen, but do you think there's any validity to the Reconquista sentiments endorsed by some far left Hispanic activists? As an American who believes strongly in nationalism and what you might describe as citizenism, sometimes I find myself at odds with the history of my country.

    It's always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    The Mexican-American War:

    1) Outnumber the gringos over 3 to 1*
    2) Fight on home ground
    3) Lose terribly
    4)???
    5) Claim moral victory

    Sounds like Hillary.

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    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    As someone who grew up in Texas and learned Texas history, although at this point I remember none of it, I've always been amused by those who lament the burgeoning Hispanic population in the Lone Star State and who decry the illegal immigrants who cross the border from Mexico into Texas as well.

    Not too long ago, white Americans were the original illegal immigrants to the land that currently is Texas and it was the Mexican government that had to crack down against them! Note this doesn't cause me to abandon my American nationalism, but unlike many here I suspect I'm far more empathetic to opposing points of view because I'm fundamentally aware of the contradictions present within the history of my own country.

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  30. syonredux says:
    @Yan Shen
    Sightly off topic but related to Mexico.

    Steve, any thoughts about the legitimacy of the United States annexing the Republic of Texas back in the day and ultimately gaining all of the territories ceded by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo at the conclusion of the Mexican American War? I'm not much of a historian, but my basic understanding as a Texan is that uh basically after Stephen F. Austin settled Texas with 300 families with the permission of the Mexican government, a steady stream of American immigrants migrated to the territory and soon outnumbered the native Spanish speakers, at which point the rest is history.

    Not that this would ever happen, but do you think there's any validity to the Reconquista sentiments endorsed by some far left Hispanic activists? As an American who believes strongly in nationalism and what you might describe as citizenism, sometimes I find myself at odds with the history of my country.

    It's always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    Steve, any thoughts about the legitimacy of the United States annexing the Republic of Texas back in the day and ultimately gaining all of the territories ceded by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo at the conclusion of the Mexican American War?

    It’s as legitimate as Mexico basing her national borders on lands that were conquered by the Spaniards. Or, for that matter, the People’s Republic of China ruling over territories that were acquired by the Qing Dynasty….

    Not that this would ever happen, but do you think there’s any validity to the Reconquista sentiments endorsed by some far left Hispanic activists?

    Only if they are willing to restore sovereignty to the various Amerind tribes who lived in California, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and Nevada before the Spaniards intruded….

    It’s always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no?

    Not if the Mexicans operate according to the same hypocrisy……

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    • Replies: @Senator Brundlefly
    "Only if they are willing to restore sovereignty to the various Amerind tribes who lived in California, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and Nevada before the Spaniards intruded…."

    And really, the so-called "Natives" should give it back to the people here before the Clovis....Or maybe all the megafauna they wiped out...And really, Homo sapiens should cede Europe back to cloned Neanderthals....Or really, we mammals should give the world back to birds as dinosaurs were here longer than us... Or maybe sharks.... Or, you know what, it really was unfair how photosynthetic lifeforms started spewing poisonous oxygen that wiped out so many anaerobic microbes...And heck, once that bastard DNA took off, poor self-replicating ribozymes didn't have a chance. That's it. Once we're back to the RNA world, everyone's sins can be forgiven.
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  31. @Yan Shen
    Sightly off topic but related to Mexico.

    Steve, any thoughts about the legitimacy of the United States annexing the Republic of Texas back in the day and ultimately gaining all of the territories ceded by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo at the conclusion of the Mexican American War? I'm not much of a historian, but my basic understanding as a Texan is that uh basically after Stephen F. Austin settled Texas with 300 families with the permission of the Mexican government, a steady stream of American immigrants migrated to the territory and soon outnumbered the native Spanish speakers, at which point the rest is history.

    Not that this would ever happen, but do you think there's any validity to the Reconquista sentiments endorsed by some far left Hispanic activists? As an American who believes strongly in nationalism and what you might describe as citizenism, sometimes I find myself at odds with the history of my country.

    It's always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    Perhaps this will be of interest:

    “As a proportion of the population, the active participation of Hispanic native and immigrant residents in the struggle for independence of Texas from Spain and Mexico was equal to or greater in specific battles than that of resident immigrants from the United States of the North.”

    –Don Guillermo

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    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
    One of them was a man named Juan Seguín, for whom the town of Seguín (near San Antonio) was named: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Segu%C3%ADn
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  32. Read More
    • Replies: @Lurker
    It's not over 'til the fat lady sings.

    Though I'm not sure if Lena Dunham can sing?
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  33. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @syonredux

    The film takes place in the ’60s, when the country is a forward-looking superpower, but the story is set largely within a darker underbelly. “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”
     
    Yeah, I mean we all recall what a marginalized figure Frank Sinatra was in the '60s.....It was so terribly unfortunate that being Italian hampered his career so severely....In a different, more enlightened America, he would have been a big star....

    And Dean and Sammy and Joey Bishop. Don’t even ask about Desi Arnaz or Milton Berle. Carl Reiner suffered as did Danny Thomas, Phil Silvers, Jack Benny and George Burns. Hell of a time for non-WASPs.

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  34. syonredux says:
    @Yan Shen
    Sightly off topic but related to Mexico.

    Steve, any thoughts about the legitimacy of the United States annexing the Republic of Texas back in the day and ultimately gaining all of the territories ceded by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo at the conclusion of the Mexican American War? I'm not much of a historian, but my basic understanding as a Texan is that uh basically after Stephen F. Austin settled Texas with 300 families with the permission of the Mexican government, a steady stream of American immigrants migrated to the territory and soon outnumbered the native Spanish speakers, at which point the rest is history.

    Not that this would ever happen, but do you think there's any validity to the Reconquista sentiments endorsed by some far left Hispanic activists? As an American who believes strongly in nationalism and what you might describe as citizenism, sometimes I find myself at odds with the history of my country.

    It's always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    Don Diego does not exactly enjoy the moral high ground….

    RED RIVER:

    Dunson: Tell Don Diego, tell him that all the land north of that river’s mine. Tell him to stay off of it.
    Mexican: Oh, but the land is his.
    Dunson: Where did he get it?
    Mexican: Oh many years ago by grant and patent, inscribed by the King of all of Spain.
    Dunson: You mean he took it away from whomever was here before. Indians maybe.
    Mexican: Maybe so.
    Dunson: Well, I’m takin’ it away from him.
    Mexican: Others have thought as you, senor. Others have tried.
    Dunson: And you’ve always been good enough to stop ‘em?
    Mexican: Amigo, it is my work.
    Dunson: Pretty unhealthy job.

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    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    "Some call me one thing,some another."
    "Whatta they call ya most?"
    "Valance. Cherry Valance."
    "There are only two things more beautiful than a good gun. A Swiss watch or a woman from anywhere."
    I don't know if that last item would meet the approval of WNs.
    "A Swiss watch or a non obese white woman..."
    "I'm gonna kill ya,Matt."
    John Wayne was the best. He preferred Latinas,too. Wait,was that good...or bad?
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  35. Kylie says:
    @Perspective

    The film takes place in the ’60s, when the country is a forward-looking superpower, but the story is set largely within a darker underbelly. “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”
     
    Why are they peddling this daft fantasy? My grandmother fled Ukraine in the late 1940s to America junior (Canada), was obviously not Anglo-Protestant, and by all accounts had a great life during the 60's and was eternally greatful to be living here. It goes without saying, that many White Anglo-Saxon Protestants were not exactly living the life of riley in Appalachia either.

    Exactly. My grandparents came over from Vienna in the early 20th century. Pop was an orthodox Serb and Granny was a Catholic Croat. They were very warmly regarded by their more typically “American” neighbors, even though having dark skin and thick accents, they were noticeably foreign.

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  36. Beene says:

    Don’t be silly, truth-teller Sailer. Yes, obviously a huge, multi-million dollar production like Guardians 2 takes a lot of time to make (though even Avengers and Transformers sequels often start filming less than a year before release), but most films don’t follow that schedule. It would also be financially illogical to release a film like Guardians 2 too soon after the first.

    Indie and smaller films, which usually occupy much of the Oscar race, can get made very quickly. For example, the Mexican maid vs. Trump-like (except intelligent and less boorish) billionaire film Beatriz at Dinner was filmed in August 2016 and premiered at Sundance in January 2017.

    You can write a film in January 2017, film it in April, premiere it in the festivals in late August or September, and have it up for awards by the end of the year. In fact, Steven Spielberg’s big December movie The Post is still filming.

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    • Replies: @Beene
    Oh, she's a physical therapist, not a maid. My bad.

    You don't have to conceive a whole film, by the way. You could alter just some of it to reflect political reality, but frankly, I've been disappointed to see very few films tackle anything Trumpesque.
    , @Steve Sailer
    "It would also be financially illogical to release a film like Guardians 2 too soon after the first."

    Tautologically, it would be financially illogical to release a sequel "too soon." But nobody seems to know what "too soon" is. The Star Wars folks intend to release one Star Wars film per year. Netflix likes to release 13 episodes of its TV shows every six months.

    The phenomenon of "binge watching" of long slugs of TV shows suggests that lots of people would like to go see a sequel to a hit movie the next day.

    Del Toro claims he came up with the idea for his latest movie in 2011.
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  37. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    You know del toro resents the fact that a rich gringo had to be the go to guy to save his dad’s ass!

    Another (micro) case of White Man’s Burden!

    Meanwhile a macro case of White Man’s Burden is erupting in Puerto Rico. Those crooks think they can guilt trip whitey into giving them sympathy statehood!

    Take up the White Man’s Burden, gringo! That’s all you’re good for.

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  38. Beene says:
    @Beene
    Don't be silly, truth-teller Sailer. Yes, obviously a huge, multi-million dollar production like Guardians 2 takes a lot of time to make (though even Avengers and Transformers sequels often start filming less than a year before release), but most films don't follow that schedule. It would also be financially illogical to release a film like Guardians 2 too soon after the first.

    Indie and smaller films, which usually occupy much of the Oscar race, can get made very quickly. For example, the Mexican maid vs. Trump-like (except intelligent and less boorish) billionaire film Beatriz at Dinner was filmed in August 2016 and premiered at Sundance in January 2017.

    You can write a film in January 2017, film it in April, premiere it in the festivals in late August or September, and have it up for awards by the end of the year. In fact, Steven Spielberg's big December movie The Post is still filming.

    Oh, she’s a physical therapist, not a maid. My bad.

    You don’t have to conceive a whole film, by the way. You could alter just some of it to reflect political reality, but frankly, I’ve been disappointed to see very few films tackle anything Trumpesque.

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  39. neutral says:

    An even more direct and unsubtle Hollywood tackling of Trump is this from Morgan Freeman:

    This is the brainchild of a neocon gang calling itself “The Committee to Investigate Russia” (serious), with Max Boot being the head of this.

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    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Hilarious. Must be true, though, because that's God talking!
    , @LondonBob
    Perhaps someone can launch a Committee to Investigate Israel.
    , @DFH
    Why are the Jews so intent on destroying Russia?
    , @Authenticjazzman
    Talentless fool with silly-ass earrings. Multi-millionaire for no reason whatsoever.

    Fact is the truely great talents in HW just happen to be DT supporters : Clint, Bruce (Willis), among others.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and pro Jazz musician.
    , @Gunner
    Anyone want to take a guess how much time Freeman spent worrying about KGB agents and Russian influence before Donald Trump ran for President?
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  40. I think we can all guess who Guillermo “Others” are, but what makes him so arrogant to believe he understands them so well?

    It is, however, totally understandable that he believes them to be evil. Isn’t that how all groups presume their Others?

    Obviously good thinkers are utterly unaware of how apparent is their blind hypocrisy.

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  41. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @ziel
    “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”

    I can assure Senor Del Toro that the 60's were a pretty great time to be growing up in America if you were a Catholic and, from my observations of my classmates, it was pretty freakin' great if you were Jewish as well.

    "Well I'm so glad I'm livin' in the USA" - Chuck Berry, 1964.

    Early 1960s Detroit was probably the peak for black culture and broad-based prosperity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tim Howells
    Duke Ellington wrote a suite called "Black Brown and Beige" that celebrated the Whitening of Black culture as reflected in musical styles. It would be interesting to trace the collapse of Black musical culture from Ellington and Strayhorn to Snoop Dogg and Lil Wayne, and the responsible social influences. One hell of a story there.
    , @Clyde

    Early 1960s Detroit was probably the peak for black culture and broad-based prosperity.
     
    I agree that black men laboring away in automobile and their affiliates. Getting great paychecks. This excess money had to be spent somewhere. All this created an electricity that lead to Motown and other music and culture that was all upbeat _ not cynical _ even their slow sad songs had a moral attached to them.
    , @Authenticjazzman
    Right you are, and there was a pulsing Jazz scene at that time. Everybody Miles, Trane, Diz, every big name in Jazz was present.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" qualified since 1973, airborne trained us army Vet, and pro Jazz artist.

    PS Oh yeah almost forgot : I was born in Highland Park, grew up in the at that time, serene Rouge Park area.
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  42. Bugg says:

    DelToro is mad because white Anglo Saxon Prods kidnapped his dad?

    Or America should let more of the people who kidnapped his dad enter the US? Though doesn’t appear anyone is stopping them anyway.

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  43. wren says:

    It seems to me that, if he wanted to, Trump or friends could put together some pretty good, funny, or clever anti- anti- Trump movies.

    It’s not like he has no experience in the entertainment industry or his own secretary of the treasury hasn’t produced several dozen movies recently or anything.

    There is lots of material out there. This blog right here seems to churn out documentary/drama/comedy-ready stuff on a daily basis.

    And he won the vote too, so it is not like there isn’t an audience for it.

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    • Replies: @EdwardM
    Then Trump would be accused of using his influence to create crude propaganda to brainwash the American people. Cue the Leni Riefenstahl references.
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  44. Yan Shen says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    The Mexican-American War:

    1) Outnumber the gringos over 3 to 1*
    2) Fight on home ground
    3) Lose terribly
    4)???
    5) Claim moral victory

    Sounds like Hillary.

    As someone who grew up in Texas and learned Texas history, although at this point I remember none of it, I’ve always been amused by those who lament the burgeoning Hispanic population in the Lone Star State and who decry the illegal immigrants who cross the border from Mexico into Texas as well.

    Not too long ago, white Americans were the original illegal immigrants to the land that currently is Texas and it was the Mexican government that had to crack down against them! Note this doesn’t cause me to abandon my American nationalism, but unlike many here I suspect I’m far more empathetic to opposing points of view because I’m fundamentally aware of the contradictions present within the history of my own country.

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    • Replies: @CAL2

    I’ve always been amused by those who lament the burgeoning Hispanic population in the Lone Star State and who decry the illegal immigrants who cross the border from Mexico into Texas as well.

     


    Not too long ago, white Americans were the original illegal immigrants to the land that currently is Texas and it was the Mexican government that had to crack down against them!
     
    So you recognize that population means control and then you find it amusing that your fellow Americans are upset about the growing Hispanic population. From before history, people have been taking land away from other people. Don't you find it interesting the Mexicans think they own land that was taken from others and then taken from them?

    Might doesn't make right but it is the only thing standing in the way of the guy next door wanting your stuff.
    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    There is no contradiction. We took it from the Mexicans who seceded from the Spanish who conquered the hunter-gatherers, who engaged in frequent wars over forage and women, sometimes wiping out their neighbors entirely. There, I've just described the history of the planet.

    Sovereignty is the big leagues; it's an anarchic order, not a civic one.

    The Westphalian construct, while useful for maintaining order among the countries that actually matter, breaks down somewhat in that the world is now full of putative sovereigns who are actually incapable of self-governance, with their citizens voting against self-rule with their feet, by the millions.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    If you have the appropriate amounts of the XY chromosome, you might note that an important difference involving blood and iron. Implicitly, we all understand the right of conquest and its only the perpetual losers who will be trapped in whining about it. I suggest visiting the ruins of the Summer Palace in Beijing and reflect that despite everything, note how the Chinese blame the West much less than they blame themselves.

    There's a reason, and its an important point from a Confucian perspective of practicality. Incidentally, he would also probably suggest that you try to remember the history before you offer opinions on it.

    "Those who are born with the possession of knowledge are the highest class of men. Those who learn, and so readily get possession of knowledge, are the next. Those who are dull and stupid, and yet compass the learning are another class next to these. As to those who are dull and stupid and yet do not learn--they are the lowest of the people."

    , @bomag

    As someone who grew up in Texas...
     
    Really? Then you benefited from the extant Anglo institutions and influence. I suspect you would have had less benefit under Mexican civic sensibilities. Interesting from someone who touts the superiority of today's East Asian people/culture with the implied notion that they should be allowed to take over and run things. I thought maybe you would tout the superiority of 1848 America and argue for it to properly take over and run its environs.

    ...this doesn’t cause me to abandon my American nationalism
     
    What a troll. I'm guessing your motto is: "To save American nationalism, we have to burn the country."

    unlike many here I suspect I’m far more empathetic to opposing points of view because I’m fundamentally aware of the contradictions present within the history of my own country

     

    How nice that you see more and sense more than the rest of us. Can I touch your garment?

    Prominent here is a kind of "autistic legalism" where relations between countries is seen as a type of contract that the Yan Shens and Corvinuses scour for an interpretive violation that would null the agreement and set all back to a pre-contract state with expungement of all intervening activity and treble damages. As noted by other comments, this ignores the different nature of sovereign and civic, and the initial premise that a cooperative agreement is even possible in these cases.
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  45. Yan Shen says:

    I haven’t seen most of the best picture contenders out thus far, but my favorite movie so far in 2017 has been Logan. Although I doubt it’ll win, it would be nice if it could at least garner a nomination for Best Picture. The academy’s snub of the Dark Knight back in the day was supposedly the reason why the Best Picture nominees pool expanded from 5 to up to 10 per year. So it would make sense that a superhero movie even better than the Dark Knight would get a nomination this year…

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    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Logan may be the best superhero movie I've seen, though I also liked the first Captain America movie (for different reasons).
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  46. @Yan Shen
    Sightly off topic but related to Mexico.

    Steve, any thoughts about the legitimacy of the United States annexing the Republic of Texas back in the day and ultimately gaining all of the territories ceded by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo at the conclusion of the Mexican American War? I'm not much of a historian, but my basic understanding as a Texan is that uh basically after Stephen F. Austin settled Texas with 300 families with the permission of the Mexican government, a steady stream of American immigrants migrated to the territory and soon outnumbered the native Spanish speakers, at which point the rest is history.

    Not that this would ever happen, but do you think there's any validity to the Reconquista sentiments endorsed by some far left Hispanic activists? As an American who believes strongly in nationalism and what you might describe as citizenism, sometimes I find myself at odds with the history of my country.

    It's always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    “Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?”

    Not the only morality. For peaceful men it’s the scorched earth option, for use only when all other options have been exhausted. For less complicated men it’s the go-to option.

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  47. Forbes says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    The Shape of Water is a romantic, grown-up fairytale, where a mute woman (Sally Hawkins) working at a secret government facility in 1962 falls in love with a sea creature (Doug Jones) that’s being held there against its will.

    Sounds kind of like Splash (1984), starring Darryl Hannah as the sea creature and Tom Hanks as the man who loves her. I don't recall anyone seeing that as an immigration allegory.

    Harry, that’s so last century–like ancient history. Nobody knows nothin’ before, like, yesterday. Back then, you could make a fun movie that audiences watched and enjoyed. Today, it must be a serious political allegory that will be discussed, but no one will actually watch it–much less enjoy it.

    Here, it’s fodder for entertaining riffs on Conquistador-Americans.

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  48. Ivy says:

    OT are you following the Giancarlo Stanton home run story? He hit 56th and is closing in on the Maris 61 mark.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    I'm sure that Steve is following the escapades of this later graduate of his own high school - the Old School Tie lives!
    , @res
    One interesting thing about Stanton is that he seems to have big seasons (2014 and 2107) in the years he gets big contracts.
    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/stantmi03.shtml

    I wonder if he will beat Maris. I see 13 games and 6 home runs to go with him currently hitting home runs at a 56/149= 0.38 home runs per game pace. So just under 5 more expected.
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  49. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Del Toro: Another insufferable Mexican hypocrite.

    Mexico is one the most jingoist, chauvinist, nativist, nationalist societies in the world.

    And these Mexican creeps never get tired of coming to America and lecturing us that we are not open and universal enough.

    And IF we make the grade today …we sure did not in the 60′s! And that is what really matters.

    MUCK FEXICO.

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    • Replies: @Logan
    Somebody should ask him about Mexican laws on immigration and why America shouldn't follow suit.
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  50. Lurker says:

    where the facility’s villainous supervisor (Michael Shannon) is largely driven by hatred of what he doesn’t understand.

    I haven’t looked him up but would Mr. Shannon be a white gentleman perchance?

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    • Replies: @Pericles
    And perhaps the sea creature turns out to be a handsome, muscular black man?
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  51. Lurker says:
    @syonredux

    He may be white but he’s not a WASP. I obviously don’t buy his absurd claim that the US was only a great place for WASPs 55 years ago, but that doesn’t make him a WASP
     
    No one's saying that he is. We're just mocking his belief that being a White Hispanic makes him an oppressed Person of Color.

    If Guillermo del Toro had started calling himself William Bull and claimed all his ancestors hailed from England would anyone even have noticed?

    Does he have any Amerindian ancestry at all?

    Why is he leaving all that juicy white WASPy privilege on the table?

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    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    The term "WASP" was still heard some in the 1960's, but it completely disappeared later. You never see it now, except in historical references.

    That's just based on my experience.

    And no, del Toro doesn't look stereotypically Mexican at all. Looks not just European, but not from the far south of Europe.

    But on this site some readers claim they tell based on something other than hair and eye colour. Not sure how they do it, or if it could stand up to testing.
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  52. Nobody hates Mexicans more that Mexicans. They have a love hate relationship, albeit more hate, between the European conquers who raped and plundered their ancestors and the Indo’s who were short, unattractive, and primitive. They want to love their Indo mothers but are ashamed and they want to hate their white fathers but that is who they want to be most.

    Cantinflas always wished he could grow a mustache.

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  53. @syonredux
    Don Diego does not exactly enjoy the moral high ground....


    RED RIVER:

    Dunson: Tell Don Diego, tell him that all the land north of that river’s mine. Tell him to stay off of it.
    Mexican: Oh, but the land is his.
    Dunson: Where did he get it?
    Mexican: Oh many years ago by grant and patent, inscribed by the King of all of Spain.
    Dunson: You mean he took it away from whomever was here before. Indians maybe.
    Mexican: Maybe so.
    Dunson: Well, I’m takin’ it away from him.
    Mexican: Others have thought as you, senor. Others have tried.
    Dunson: And you’ve always been good enough to stop ‘em?
    Mexican: Amigo, it is my work.
    Dunson: Pretty unhealthy job.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBPrLU4Zspo

    “Some call me one thing,some another.”
    “Whatta they call ya most?”
    “Valance. Cherry Valance.”
    “There are only two things more beautiful than a good gun. A Swiss watch or a woman from anywhere.”
    I don’t know if that last item would meet the approval of WNs.
    “A Swiss watch or a non obese white woman…”
    “I’m gonna kill ya,Matt.”
    John Wayne was the best. He preferred Latinas,too. Wait,was that good…or bad?

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    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    Gimme Howard Hawks anytime over this fat blob Del Toro. I have known only one guy named Guillermo. The story I was told was he tried to procure a whore in an Okinawa ho house,and was rejected.
    LOL.
    , @bomag

    “There are only two things more beautiful than a good gun. A Swiss watch or a woman from anywhere.”
     
    I'd edit it to: "...a good woman from anywhere.
    , @syonredux

    John Wayne was the best. He preferred Latinas,too. Wait,was that good…or bad?
     
    Wayne's Hispanic wives were Conquistador-class:

    Josephine S. Wayne (born Josephine Alicia Saenz; May 13, 1908 – June 24, 2003) was the first wife of American film actor John Wayne. She had four children including film producer Michael Wayne and actor Patrick Wayne.

    Josephine Alicia "Josie" Saenz was born May 13, 1908 to the Consul General of Panama in the United States,[1] José Saenz, a wealthy businessman who lived in Los Angeles, California.[2] Her parents were born in Madrid, Spain.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephine_Wayne


    Esperanza Baur

    https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=96406604


    Pilar Pallete

    Pallete was born as the daughter of a Peruvian senator in the Paita Port (northern Peru). She married and divorced professional big-game hunter Richard Weldy.[1]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilar_Pallete
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  54. TWS says:

    Didn’t that Jason Bourne movie the Wall cover the Trump for Hollywood?

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  55. @Father O'Hara
    "Some call me one thing,some another."
    "Whatta they call ya most?"
    "Valance. Cherry Valance."
    "There are only two things more beautiful than a good gun. A Swiss watch or a woman from anywhere."
    I don't know if that last item would meet the approval of WNs.
    "A Swiss watch or a non obese white woman..."
    "I'm gonna kill ya,Matt."
    John Wayne was the best. He preferred Latinas,too. Wait,was that good...or bad?

    Gimme Howard Hawks anytime over this fat blob Del Toro. I have known only one guy named Guillermo. The story I was told was he tried to procure a whore in an Okinawa ho house,and was rejected.
    LOL.

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  56. @Yan Shen
    Sightly off topic but related to Mexico.

    Steve, any thoughts about the legitimacy of the United States annexing the Republic of Texas back in the day and ultimately gaining all of the territories ceded by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo at the conclusion of the Mexican American War? I'm not much of a historian, but my basic understanding as a Texan is that uh basically after Stephen F. Austin settled Texas with 300 families with the permission of the Mexican government, a steady stream of American immigrants migrated to the territory and soon outnumbered the native Spanish speakers, at which point the rest is history.

    Not that this would ever happen, but do you think there's any validity to the Reconquista sentiments endorsed by some far left Hispanic activists? As an American who believes strongly in nationalism and what you might describe as citizenism, sometimes I find myself at odds with the history of my country.

    It's always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    It’s always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no?

    Our American forefathers firmly believed in the self determination of the American people, including their determination to have more American life-space.

    Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    If God wanted the Spanish Americans and Native Americans to keep their land, why didn’t He predestine then to have more military power?

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  57. Svigor says:

    It’s always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    Kato, I see you spent none of the time away in practice. Your gung-fu is still very weak. We want Whites to respect their own national and ethnic rights. We know perfectly well non-Whites won’t respect them otherwise. The Indians fought for their land (and lived by the right of conquest, so of course the land is Whitey’s now – tweren’t the yellows or the brows or the blacks or the Jews who whupped the red man, it was the white man), the Spanish fought the Anglo-Celts for the land they took from the Indians and lost, etc.

    . Or, for that matter, the People’s Republic of China ruling over territories that were acquired by the Qing Dynasty….

    What was the name of that Muslim Mongoloid race that the Chinese exterminated? Hold on, checking the archives…ah, here we are – the Dzungars. See, the Chinese exterminated (as in, genocide, as in, wiped out) the Dzungars. So who are the Chinese to lecture us about our lesser offenses? Seems awfully hypocritical – as in more than a little.

    Funny, I can’t recall you ever criticizing Zionism, Kato. It’s the current clear and present main offender to what you’re preaching here, but never once can I recall you ever raising your hand against your Jewish betters Zionists. Not very brave of you…but very Chinese.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Frankly, he's not very Chinese at all. I seriously wonder if he's just a troll, there's a lot of weird gaps in his understanding.
    , @Spandrell
    The Dzungars weren't Muslim. They were the western branch of the Mongol people. They waged war against China again and again; and they were exterminated.

    The Uyghurs are settled Muslims, back then the servants of the Dzungars before China took over. Those weren't exterminated, indeed the Uyghurs themselves rebelled later and exterminated all the Chinese military in the area.
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  58. Daniel H says:
    @Yan Shen
    Sightly off topic but related to Mexico.

    Steve, any thoughts about the legitimacy of the United States annexing the Republic of Texas back in the day and ultimately gaining all of the territories ceded by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo at the conclusion of the Mexican American War? I'm not much of a historian, but my basic understanding as a Texan is that uh basically after Stephen F. Austin settled Texas with 300 families with the permission of the Mexican government, a steady stream of American immigrants migrated to the territory and soon outnumbered the native Spanish speakers, at which point the rest is history.

    Not that this would ever happen, but do you think there's any validity to the Reconquista sentiments endorsed by some far left Hispanic activists? As an American who believes strongly in nationalism and what you might describe as citizenism, sometimes I find myself at odds with the history of my country.

    It's always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    >> Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    Yes and yes.

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  59. Dan Hayes says:
    @Ivy
    OT are you following the Giancarlo Stanton home run story? He hit 56th and is closing in on the Maris 61 mark.

    I’m sure that Steve is following the escapades of this later graduate of his own high school – the Old School Tie lives!

    Read More
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  60. @Yan Shen
    Sightly off topic but related to Mexico.

    Steve, any thoughts about the legitimacy of the United States annexing the Republic of Texas back in the day and ultimately gaining all of the territories ceded by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo at the conclusion of the Mexican American War? I'm not much of a historian, but my basic understanding as a Texan is that uh basically after Stephen F. Austin settled Texas with 300 families with the permission of the Mexican government, a steady stream of American immigrants migrated to the territory and soon outnumbered the native Spanish speakers, at which point the rest is history.

    Not that this would ever happen, but do you think there's any validity to the Reconquista sentiments endorsed by some far left Hispanic activists? As an American who believes strongly in nationalism and what you might describe as citizenism, sometimes I find myself at odds with the history of my country.

    It's always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    Yan Shen, are you American born, or did you immigrate? If you immigrated, were you an adult choosing to do so? Especially if the latter, you really should have no problem how America gained territory—you’re voluntarily living in the wake of American continental Manifest Destiny. If you (or your forebears) preferred the undiluted vibrancy of lower Aztlán, y’all should have immigrated to Mexico. Maybe you still can.

    There is no contradiction between Steve’s advocacy for citizenism in the here and now and a recognition that a past Mexican Government done goofed by allowing Anglo settlers to immigrate. Your answer is in your question—yes, national sovereignty must be maintained. People with different blood and different values may take over, to the detriment of the host nation.

    As to your greater query (and I’m not speaking for Steve here), but yeah, in the zero-sum game of real estate, who should prevail? It’s a simple who/whom question. If one prefers ‘Anglos,’ Yanquis should take the territory. If one prefers Mestizos and Indios, La Raza should rule the land. It ideally should be demographically either/or, also, not a mix of too many antagonists on the same plot, as Nancy Pelosi is finding out.

    Yankee Manifest Destiny had its natural limits:

    Senator John C. Calhoun of South Carolina, who had approved of the annexation of Texas, was opposed to the annexation of Mexico, as well as the “mission” aspect of manifest destiny, for racial reasons. He made these views clear in a speech to Congress on January 4, 1848:

    “We have never dreamt of incorporating into our Union any but the Caucasian race—the free white race. To incorporate Mexico, would be the very first instance of the kind, of incorporating an Indian race; for more than half of the Mexicans are Indians, and the other is composed chiefly of mixed tribes. I protest against such a union as that! Ours, sir, is the Government of a white race…. We are anxious to force free government on all; and I see that it has been urged … that it is the mission of this country to spread civil and religious liberty over all the world, and especially over this continent. It is a great mistake.”

    While Calhoun was dead wrong in his advocacy of slavery, he was rightly against “invade the world, invite the world.”

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  61. OT–https://twitter.com/CHSommers/status/910704804283998210

    - “Dear Women’s March: She murdered two college students in 1970–then concealed her murder conviction from US immigration. Find better allies.”

    http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/political-activist-rasmea-odeh-a-symbol-of-deportations-many-faces/?utm_content=buffer4754b

    - Rasmea Odeh was deported Tuesday.

    - The 70-year-old Palestinian immigrant, whose U.S. citizenship was revoked by Immigration and Customs Enforcement for not disclosing having served time as a prisoner in Israel, didn’t cry until the end, only after ICE refused her huge crowd of supporters entry into the airport.

    Reminds me of Pablo “They” Gomez, BLM has also its fair share of murderous weirdos. #whacktivists

    https://www.google.de/search?q=site:unz.com+activist+murderer

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Reminds me of Pablo “They” Gomez, BLM has also its fair share of murderous weirdos. #whacktivists
     
    Whacktivist. I like it. I'm going to use that.
    , @AndrewR
    Yet David Duke is almost universally reviled for having been in the Klan a thousand years ago, even though he was never convicted of (or even accused of TMK) any sort of violent crime, let alone murder. Yet leftists worship people like Odeh and Joanne Chesimard.

    Leftist hypocrisy is beyond outrageous.
    , @Tex
    What does every hard-core, willing-to-kill-for-the-cause (dying is optional), Palestinian nationalist want? To move to America!
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  62. Dahlia says:

    What’s more notable to me, something that’s more recent but unfortunately already taken for granted and accepted, is the dehumanization of conservatives/rightists. They know Trump supporters make up half the country, but in every spoken breathe and written paragraph is the assumption of their nonexistence.

    I do understand Washington DC and New York have grown astonishingly more liberal, to the point of reaching diminishing returns in DC’s case, but I feel more is going on.

    Let me get right to it. I looked up this guy, his picture: would I be wrong in thinking that this dehumanization of us could be understood best by reading Roth discuss “the Monkey” in Portnoy’s Complaint???

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  63. gregor says:

    At the recent Emmy’s apparently that ridiculous Handmaid’s Tale show was a big winner (the show where American women are forced to go around in bonnets and long dresses which libs believe is an imminent peril with theocrat Drumpf in the White House). And they gave awards to John Oliver and even Alec Baldwin/SNL which has never been popular with award show voters. And every speech had the obligatory so-brave denunciations of Drumpf. A sample of the brave resistance:

    Handmaid’s Tale wouldn’t have gotten any attention if weren’t for the supposedly perfect political timeliness that the vagina-hats are projecting onto it.

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    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    Margaret Atwood is a fool. Of all the large religions, Christianity is the one most sympathetic to women.

    And they started converting early. In ancient Rome there were wealthy widows leaving their money to the Church. Too many, some thought.

    Constantine's mother was a fervent Christian and no doubt put the idea in his head.

    Indeed, some complain that Christianity is "feminine." Edward Gibbon claimed it contributed to the fall of Rome.

    The natural choice for extreme misogyny is Islam, but of course Atwood would never have considered that.
    , @Wilkey
    Nothing Trump has said comes even remotely close to the hate Jane Fonda spewed about American servicemen in Vietnam. And those assholes let her on stage.
    , @Mr. Anon

    Handmaid’s Tale wouldn’t have gotten any attention if weren’t for the supposedly perfect political timeliness that the vagina-hats are projecting onto it.
     
    I remember lefty feminist types talking admiringly about The Handmaid's Tale back in the 80s. The premise of it - a theocratic state in contemporary New England - was ridiculous then. It is even more ridiculous now. It is a ridiculous premise anywhere in the western world, outside of Warren Jeff's house or muslim enclaves.

    What I find especially funny about the current incarnation is how it is touted as some kind of warning about social brain-washing and the danger of religious cults.............while the star of the show, Elisabeth Moss, is a scientologist.
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  64. Dahlia says:

    Sims, the author of this piece:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pericles
    He could have been the sea creature.
    , @StillCARealist
    He needs to lay off the booze. Probably should smoke less pot too.
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  65. Lagertha says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    The Shape of Water is a romantic, grown-up fairytale, where a mute woman (Sally Hawkins) working at a secret government facility in 1962 falls in love with a sea creature (Doug Jones) that’s being held there against its will.

    Sounds kind of like Splash (1984), starring Darryl Hannah as the sea creature and Tom Hanks as the man who loves her. I don't recall anyone seeing that as an immigration allegory.

    No, it was not immigration allegory; it was: If dweebish guy chooses to be loyal and nice, he just may “catch AND keep” the beautiful blonde. What I found hilarious was that the villain was a scientist! Haha, now with global climate change being sold everyday to us, it is interesting that Hollywood is shelving scientist-villains! – especially, biologists concentrating on flora and fauna. Genetics and AI, sure…there could be good bad guys, but sea creatures are sacred from now on. Darryl Hannah is still the stuff marine biologists went to sleep dreaming about, and probably many directors who think about water, oceans and stuff, climate-changey stuff.

    Read More
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  66. Mr. Anon says:

    The film takes place in the ’60s, when the country is a forward-looking superpower, but the story is set largely within a darker underbelly. “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”

    Yeah, if you were anything else in the 1960s – say, an irish catholic – the best you could hope for was being President of the United States.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TheBoom
    The glass ceiling was so low then for Catholics. Probably the highest they could strive for in entertainment was only to be like Sinatra
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  67. So if you frown upon people having sex with fish you’re a bigot…or something. Cause in the 60′s (which was the worst time in history apparently) people frowned upon ichthyological coitus and now that we’re progressive and enlightened…we don’t? Cause who in their right mind would “other” a fish? Sounds to me like Del Toro is a 12 year old who wanted to make a movie about monsters (and, you gotta admit, Creature from the Black Lagoon is one of the coolest looking movies monsters there is) and, being a weirdo, also wanted some fish sex in it. To pull that off without looking weird he needed to justify it as art so he makes a post hoc connection to Trump. Like, wouldn’t a liberal who actually cares about migrants and whatnot think that comparing animal-human erotica to human policies regarding other human beings is kinda offensive? Or are we really so far down the rabbit hole that bestiality is the next cause célèbre that society must accept as wonderful?

    Plus, what does loving the “other” in a sexual manner have anything to do with Trump’s policy agenda? I mean, I’d say something like District 9 is a more pertinent sci-fi concept to Trump’s immigration policy (which is the main thing the left is pissed about). The thing I like about District 9 is that (despite ultimately falling on the wishy washy “feel bad for the poor aliens” trope), it actually presented a complex moral situation. Most of the Prawns were stupid, violent, drones completely unsuitable to human society. I could understand people not liking them. What do you do with a sentient population that is violent and unassimilatable and cannot be sent back where it came from?

    Read More
    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOHAJFHOF0Q&feature=youtu.be&t=133
    , @Logan
    Somebody should ask him about Mexican laws on immigration and why America shouldn't follow suit.
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  68. Mr. Anon says:
    @theo the kraut
    OT--https://twitter.com/CHSommers/status/910704804283998210

    - "Dear Women's March: She murdered two college students in 1970--then concealed her murder conviction from US immigration. Find better allies."

    http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/political-activist-rasmea-odeh-a-symbol-of-deportations-many-faces/?utm_content=buffer4754b

    - Rasmea Odeh was deported Tuesday.

    - The 70-year-old Palestinian immigrant, whose U.S. citizenship was revoked by Immigration and Customs Enforcement for not disclosing having served time as a prisoner in Israel, didn’t cry until the end, only after ICE refused her huge crowd of supporters entry into the airport.

    Reminds me of Pablo "They" Gomez, BLM has also its fair share of murderous weirdos. #whacktivists

    https://www.google.de/search?q=site:unz.com+activist+murderer

    Reminds me of Pablo “They” Gomez, BLM has also its fair share of murderous weirdos. #whacktivists

    Whacktivist. I like it. I’m going to use that.

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  69. Mr. Anon says:

    It’s a story of empathy triumphing over prejudice, one where the facility’s villainous supervisor (Michael Shannon) is largely driven by hatred of what he doesn’t understand.

    Wow! That is so original – hating what you don’t understand. That’s a new one. Nobody has every made a movie on that theme before. Well it’s about time! Because, afterall, you can only hate things you don’t understand. That’s why the family members of Ted Bundy’s victims hated him – because they didn’t understand him.

    Maybe, in his next movie, del Toro can tell a story about – now, indulge me here – I know you’ll think is crazy – a story about a hardened, cynical prostitute who is actually a kind, caring person. Why, you might even say that she has a “heart of gold”. Or maybe he could do a movie about two police officers with radically different styles, forced to work together and who, though they initially don’t like each other, eventually grow to have respect and affection for their partner. Or maybe a story about a “lone-wolf” cop, who bucks the system and plays by his own rules.

    These are the kind of original, avant-guarde narratives I would expect from an auteur of del Toro’s immense talent.

    To paraphrase Theo the Krauts’ coinage:

    #hacktivist

    Read More
    • LOL: Kylie
    • Replies: @res

    To paraphrase Theo the Krauts’ coinage:

    #hacktivist
     

    Not only does Mr. Anon identify good memes (#whacktivist) he extends them. May I propose #cracktivist for when we discover an appropriate specimen? How about #gobacktivist? Or #slacktivist?

    Oops, that last one is already well known (and pretty funny): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slacktivism

    Hactivist has a current but different meaning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacktivism
    Whacktivist has a current similar meaning: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Whacktivist

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  70. @Lurker
    If Guillermo del Toro had started calling himself William Bull and claimed all his ancestors hailed from England would anyone even have noticed?

    Does he have any Amerindian ancestry at all?

    Why is he leaving all that juicy white WASPy privilege on the table?

    The term “WASP” was still heard some in the 1960′s, but it completely disappeared later. You never see it now, except in historical references.

    That’s just based on my experience.

    And no, del Toro doesn’t look stereotypically Mexican at all. Looks not just European, but not from the far south of Europe.

    But on this site some readers claim they tell based on something other than hair and eye colour. Not sure how they do it, or if it could stand up to testing.

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  71. @syonredux

    Steve, any thoughts about the legitimacy of the United States annexing the Republic of Texas back in the day and ultimately gaining all of the territories ceded by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo at the conclusion of the Mexican American War?
     
    It's as legitimate as Mexico basing her national borders on lands that were conquered by the Spaniards. Or, for that matter, the People's Republic of China ruling over territories that were acquired by the Qing Dynasty....

    Not that this would ever happen, but do you think there’s any validity to the Reconquista sentiments endorsed by some far left Hispanic activists?
     
    Only if they are willing to restore sovereignty to the various Amerind tribes who lived in California, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and Nevada before the Spaniards intruded....

    It’s always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no?
     
    Not if the Mexicans operate according to the same hypocrisy......

    “Only if they are willing to restore sovereignty to the various Amerind tribes who lived in California, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and Nevada before the Spaniards intruded….”

    And really, the so-called “Natives” should give it back to the people here before the Clovis….Or maybe all the megafauna they wiped out…And really, Homo sapiens should cede Europe back to cloned Neanderthals….Or really, we mammals should give the world back to birds as dinosaurs were here longer than us… Or maybe sharks…. Or, you know what, it really was unfair how photosynthetic lifeforms started spewing poisonous oxygen that wiped out so many anaerobic microbes…And heck, once that bastard DNA took off, poor self-replicating ribozymes didn’t have a chance. That’s it. Once we’re back to the RNA world, everyone’s sins can be forgiven.

    Read More
    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @res
    But the land masses have also come and gone (to some extent). Does the first inhabitant after the land appeared above sea level get title in perpetuity? Or do volcanic eruptions completely remaking the landscape cause a reset? Or ...?
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  72. Mr. Anon says:

    Del Toro’s dad owned an automobile manufacturing company in Mexico, which means that Guillermo knows all about racism and oppression. Del Toro’s dad was kidnapped in Guadalajara and held for ransom for $1 million for 72 days, until Guillermo’s friend James Cameron paid it.

    Presumably del Toro is upset that President Trump doesn’t want let in more Mexicans ………….. Mexicans like the people who kidnapped his (del Toro’s) dad.

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  73. TheBoom says:
    @Mr. Anon

    The film takes place in the ’60s, when the country is a forward-looking superpower, but the story is set largely within a darker underbelly. “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”
     
    Yeah, if you were anything else in the 1960s - say, an irish catholic - the best you could hope for was being President of the United States.

    The glass ceiling was so low then for Catholics. Probably the highest they could strive for in entertainment was only to be like Sinatra

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Or Crosby.
    , @Kylie
    Or Spencer Tracy.
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  74. @gregor
    At the recent Emmy's apparently that ridiculous Handmaid's Tale show was a big winner (the show where American women are forced to go around in bonnets and long dresses which libs believe is an imminent peril with theocrat Drumpf in the White House). And they gave awards to John Oliver and even Alec Baldwin/SNL which has never been popular with award show voters. And every speech had the obligatory so-brave denunciations of Drumpf. A sample of the brave resistance:

    https://youtu.be/Dlp32_BXBbA

    Handmaid's Tale wouldn't have gotten any attention if weren't for the supposedly perfect political timeliness that the vagina-hats are projecting onto it.

    Margaret Atwood is a fool. Of all the large religions, Christianity is the one most sympathetic to women.

    And they started converting early. In ancient Rome there were wealthy widows leaving their money to the Church. Too many, some thought.

    Constantine’s mother was a fervent Christian and no doubt put the idea in his head.

    Indeed, some complain that Christianity is “feminine.” Edward Gibbon claimed it contributed to the fall of Rome.

    The natural choice for extreme misogyny is Islam, but of course Atwood would never have considered that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    As if women were sympathetic to women. Perhaps in theory and in general, certainly not in personal practice. It is men who fall over themselves to prove their sympathy to woman.

    None are so contemptuous of effeminacy as women. One imagines they've tired of the endless pretense of Churchianity.
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  75. @Yan Shen
    Sightly off topic but related to Mexico.

    Steve, any thoughts about the legitimacy of the United States annexing the Republic of Texas back in the day and ultimately gaining all of the territories ceded by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo at the conclusion of the Mexican American War? I'm not much of a historian, but my basic understanding as a Texan is that uh basically after Stephen F. Austin settled Texas with 300 families with the permission of the Mexican government, a steady stream of American immigrants migrated to the territory and soon outnumbered the native Spanish speakers, at which point the rest is history.

    Not that this would ever happen, but do you think there's any validity to the Reconquista sentiments endorsed by some far left Hispanic activists? As an American who believes strongly in nationalism and what you might describe as citizenism, sometimes I find myself at odds with the history of my country.

    It's always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    It’s always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no?

    Uh … and how was modern Mexico founded? Do you think the Spaniards purchased all that land from the Aztecs? The Mayans? The Yaquí? In the case of Texas, we simply stole some land from a people who themselves had stolen it from the Indians. Among thieves, there is no honor.

    Don’t get me wrong: I do have some sympathy for the Indians. But other colonial settlers (the Spanish, the French, the Portuguese, etc.) have absolutely no right to sit in judgement of Anglo-colonialism.

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  76. Wilkey says:
    @gregor
    At the recent Emmy's apparently that ridiculous Handmaid's Tale show was a big winner (the show where American women are forced to go around in bonnets and long dresses which libs believe is an imminent peril with theocrat Drumpf in the White House). And they gave awards to John Oliver and even Alec Baldwin/SNL which has never been popular with award show voters. And every speech had the obligatory so-brave denunciations of Drumpf. A sample of the brave resistance:

    https://youtu.be/Dlp32_BXBbA

    Handmaid's Tale wouldn't have gotten any attention if weren't for the supposedly perfect political timeliness that the vagina-hats are projecting onto it.

    Nothing Trump has said comes even remotely close to the hate Jane Fonda spewed about American servicemen in Vietnam. And those assholes let her on stage.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    No one with any sense has ever cared about what Jane Fonda may say; she is famous for other reasons.

    What, you think Roger Vadim cast her and married her becuase she has acting chops that put Judy Dench to shame, or that Ted Turner married her for her astute advice about how to run his businesses?

    As Tom Leykis would say: "C'mone."
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  77. TheBoom says:

    Del Toro is a con artist. He knows that in Mexico racism prevails leaving white looking Mexicans at the top of the pyramid and the darker you are the farther towards the bottom. The real villains though are the media and the entertainment industry. Del Toro knows that this type of anti white diatribe will win him plaudits in Hollywood and he will never be challenged by the press. If a non-Mexican tried this in Mexico, he would be driven out of the country and the press would be right up front with the pitchforks. In the US, there is only upside for him to bash the citizenry to grateful elites and their useful idiots. Mexico though doesn’t have entertainment and press industries mainly run by a small tribe that hates Mexicans.

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  78. @Harry Baldwin
    Perhaps this will be of interest:

    "As a proportion of the population, the active participation of Hispanic native and immigrant residents in the struggle for independence of Texas from Spain and Mexico was equal to or greater in specific battles than that of resident immigrants from the United States of the North."

    --Don Guillermo

    One of them was a man named Juan Seguín, for whom the town of Seguín (near San Antonio) was named: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Segu%C3%ADn

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  79. Mr. Anon says:
    @gregor
    At the recent Emmy's apparently that ridiculous Handmaid's Tale show was a big winner (the show where American women are forced to go around in bonnets and long dresses which libs believe is an imminent peril with theocrat Drumpf in the White House). And they gave awards to John Oliver and even Alec Baldwin/SNL which has never been popular with award show voters. And every speech had the obligatory so-brave denunciations of Drumpf. A sample of the brave resistance:

    https://youtu.be/Dlp32_BXBbA

    Handmaid's Tale wouldn't have gotten any attention if weren't for the supposedly perfect political timeliness that the vagina-hats are projecting onto it.

    Handmaid’s Tale wouldn’t have gotten any attention if weren’t for the supposedly perfect political timeliness that the vagina-hats are projecting onto it.

    I remember lefty feminist types talking admiringly about The Handmaid’s Tale back in the 80s. The premise of it – a theocratic state in contemporary New England – was ridiculous then. It is even more ridiculous now. It is a ridiculous premise anywhere in the western world, outside of Warren Jeff’s house or muslim enclaves.

    What I find especially funny about the current incarnation is how it is touted as some kind of warning about social brain-washing and the danger of religious cults………….while the star of the show, Elisabeth Moss, is a scientologist.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    The Handmaid's Tale is popular among progressives as a cautionary tale about the threat posed by fundamentalist Christianity. But rather than being a fantasy about that, it's actually a picture of life among devout Muslims today, yet Muslims are popular with progressives too.
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  80. MEH 0910 says:
    @Senator Brundlefly
    So if you frown upon people having sex with fish you're a bigot...or something. Cause in the 60's (which was the worst time in history apparently) people frowned upon ichthyological coitus and now that we're progressive and enlightened...we don't? Cause who in their right mind would "other" a fish? Sounds to me like Del Toro is a 12 year old who wanted to make a movie about monsters (and, you gotta admit, Creature from the Black Lagoon is one of the coolest looking movies monsters there is) and, being a weirdo, also wanted some fish sex in it. To pull that off without looking weird he needed to justify it as art so he makes a post hoc connection to Trump. Like, wouldn't a liberal who actually cares about migrants and whatnot think that comparing animal-human erotica to human policies regarding other human beings is kinda offensive? Or are we really so far down the rabbit hole that bestiality is the next cause célèbre that society must accept as wonderful?

    Plus, what does loving the "other" in a sexual manner have anything to do with Trump's policy agenda? I mean, I'd say something like District 9 is a more pertinent sci-fi concept to Trump's immigration policy (which is the main thing the left is pissed about). The thing I like about District 9 is that (despite ultimately falling on the wishy washy "feel bad for the poor aliens" trope), it actually presented a complex moral situation. Most of the Prawns were stupid, violent, drones completely unsuitable to human society. I could understand people not liking them. What do you do with a sentient population that is violent and unassimilatable and cannot be sent back where it came from?

    Read More
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  81. ongmuaden says:

    Honestly because I had never thought much about Hollywood and its movies, I automatically assumed that the guy on the left in the upper picture, no glasses, was Guillermo Del Torro. After all, he is of a darker shade of red.

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  82. @TheBoom
    The glass ceiling was so low then for Catholics. Probably the highest they could strive for in entertainment was only to be like Sinatra

    Or Crosby.

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  83. AndrewR says:
    @theo the kraut
    OT--https://twitter.com/CHSommers/status/910704804283998210

    - "Dear Women's March: She murdered two college students in 1970--then concealed her murder conviction from US immigration. Find better allies."

    http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/political-activist-rasmea-odeh-a-symbol-of-deportations-many-faces/?utm_content=buffer4754b

    - Rasmea Odeh was deported Tuesday.

    - The 70-year-old Palestinian immigrant, whose U.S. citizenship was revoked by Immigration and Customs Enforcement for not disclosing having served time as a prisoner in Israel, didn’t cry until the end, only after ICE refused her huge crowd of supporters entry into the airport.

    Reminds me of Pablo "They" Gomez, BLM has also its fair share of murderous weirdos. #whacktivists

    https://www.google.de/search?q=site:unz.com+activist+murderer

    Yet David Duke is almost universally reviled for having been in the Klan a thousand years ago, even though he was never convicted of (or even accused of TMK) any sort of violent crime, let alone murder. Yet leftists worship people like Odeh and Joanne Chesimard.

    Leftist hypocrisy is beyond outrageous.

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  84. BB753 says:

    Has anybody watched del Toro’s tv series “The Strain”? It’s a terror show about vampires. One of the main villains is an evil Nazi vampire, while the Van Helsing figure is an old Jew who survived Treblinka Concentration Camp. Even though the action takes place in contemporary New York, you get constant flashbacks to the Holocaust. And the Nazi vampire has among other human minions : a heroic Mexican cholo blackmailed into working for the bad guys because of his mother’s illegal status and a Waspy elderly tycoon who runs New York (shades of Trump) aspiring to the immortality granted by the vampires.
    Needless to say, the main hero, a young scientist, is Jewish too, and he fights alongside the grandson of a Ukrainian involuntary “Kapo” in Treblinka, among others.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pericles
    It does indeed seem strained.
    , @Autochthon
    Wait, so the Proxy for Dr. Van Helsing is, what, ninety? One hundred? Is he himself a vampire? If not, how is he still spry enough to be chasing them around New York in 2017 if he was also in a concentration camp c. 1940? At best let's say he was a babe in the camp: he is still a good sixty-seven years old. (And if this is the gimmick, are the flashbacks about him breastfeeding and pooping his diapers?)

    Nevermind; I've a more meaningful question: Why are you all still consuming (and thereby subsidising) this garbage? You want to read about vampires? Stoker and Rice (and countless in between) have written excellent novels exploring the idea. Hammer Studios made some excellent films about vampires starring brilliant actors such as Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee. Gather some friends for a game of Dungeons & Dragons and do battle with the undead. I could write constructive, fun, healthy ways to enjoy vampires and related imaginative, legendary things all day, not one of them involving sending money to this fat, Mexican bastard who clearly holds most anyone who would be interested in Steve's work in contempt.

    I imagine a man who's wife shamelessly takes lovers. Half the time when he returns home from work there she is, in bed naked – nay, in the very throes of the act itself! – with the milkman, the postman, the pool-boy, the gardener, the neighbor, the pastor, a midget and two goats.... Each time our hero clucks his tongue most disapprovingly, then takes a seat to watch the interlopers finish the deed, after which he launders the bedding, cooks everyone a meal, and writes more checks for the mortgage on the house his wife inhabits, the groceries she consumes, and so forth. He's positively appalled, of course, by her deplorable behaviour and the way she carries on with it to his detriment.
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  85. @Wally
    Indeed, white Mexicans, think that being from Mexico gives them a free pass at everything.

    But then they always seem to be FROM Mexico, not IN Mexico.

    BTW: See photo of the Mexican Congress. More 'white' than the US Congress.

    White Mexicans are upper class. They don’t care about you and me (assuming that you and I are not upper class.)

    You will find this everywhere. The upper classes from every country have the same perspective on life and their entitlement. A lot of those assholes buy homes in America because it’s a nice place. What they miss about their home countries is all the poor servants. They want more here.

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    • Replies: @Alec Leamas

    A lot of those assholes buy homes in America because it’s a nice place. What they miss about their home countries is all the poor servants. They want more here.
     
    Isn't it more a matter of the Mexican ruling class dumping their round brown underclass on the United States so that they don't have to put together a well-run nation that provides sufficient opportunity for all of its people?

    I recall someone once writing that during the Cold War - at least after Eisenhower - the U.S. sort of looked the other way so that Mexico could "boil off" its underclass which would be the most fertile ground for the seeds of Communist revolution planted by Soviet and Cuban intelligence to grow. The calculation was that it was better a the time for the U.S. to host these people than for Mexico to fall and have a Commie regime on our Southern border. I don't know how true this is though.
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  86. @neutral
    An even more direct and unsubtle Hollywood tackling of Trump is this from Morgan Freeman:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz9PNoecNxU

    This is the brainchild of a neocon gang calling itself "The Committee to Investigate Russia" (serious), with Max Boot being the head of this.

    Hilarious. Must be true, though, because that’s God talking!

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  87. @Beene
    Don't be silly, truth-teller Sailer. Yes, obviously a huge, multi-million dollar production like Guardians 2 takes a lot of time to make (though even Avengers and Transformers sequels often start filming less than a year before release), but most films don't follow that schedule. It would also be financially illogical to release a film like Guardians 2 too soon after the first.

    Indie and smaller films, which usually occupy much of the Oscar race, can get made very quickly. For example, the Mexican maid vs. Trump-like (except intelligent and less boorish) billionaire film Beatriz at Dinner was filmed in August 2016 and premiered at Sundance in January 2017.

    You can write a film in January 2017, film it in April, premiere it in the festivals in late August or September, and have it up for awards by the end of the year. In fact, Steven Spielberg's big December movie The Post is still filming.

    “It would also be financially illogical to release a film like Guardians 2 too soon after the first.”

    Tautologically, it would be financially illogical to release a sequel “too soon.” But nobody seems to know what “too soon” is. The Star Wars folks intend to release one Star Wars film per year. Netflix likes to release 13 episodes of its TV shows every six months.

    The phenomenon of “binge watching” of long slugs of TV shows suggests that lots of people would like to go see a sequel to a hit movie the next day.

    Del Toro claims he came up with the idea for his latest movie in 2011.

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  88. duncsbaby says:
    @Jokah Macpherson
    Gremlins 2 was pretty transparently inspired by Donald Trump and it was a fun movie, especially for a sequel.

    As well in the movie the Donald Clamp character turns out to be a good guy.

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  89. LondonBob says:
    @neutral
    An even more direct and unsubtle Hollywood tackling of Trump is this from Morgan Freeman:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz9PNoecNxU

    This is the brainchild of a neocon gang calling itself "The Committee to Investigate Russia" (serious), with Max Boot being the head of this.

    Perhaps someone can launch a Committee to Investigate Israel.

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  90. @Dave Pinsen
    Early 1960s Detroit was probably the peak for black culture and broad-based prosperity.

    Duke Ellington wrote a suite called “Black Brown and Beige” that celebrated the Whitening of Black culture as reflected in musical styles. It would be interesting to trace the collapse of Black musical culture from Ellington and Strayhorn to Snoop Dogg and Lil Wayne, and the responsible social influences. One hell of a story there.

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    • Agree: The Anti-Gnostic
    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
    Amen Bro : " The collapse of Black musical culture"

    I have been saying this for years : when the blacks lost their own music, they lost one of the the most prominent grounds for historical pride within their culture.

    Jazz Trumpet Star Wynton Marsalis said it breaks his heart to see only white faces at his concerts, while Rappers rake in hundreds of millions with no descernable talent.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" qualified since 1973, airborne trained US army Vet, and pro jazz musician.
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  91. DFH says:
    @neutral
    An even more direct and unsubtle Hollywood tackling of Trump is this from Morgan Freeman:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz9PNoecNxU

    This is the brainchild of a neocon gang calling itself "The Committee to Investigate Russia" (serious), with Max Boot being the head of this.

    Why are the Jews so intent on destroying Russia?

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    • Replies: @bartok

    Why are the Jews so intent on destroying Russia?
     
    Same reason Islamists look to Spain: it used to belong to them.
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  92. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    That picture of Peter Jackson & Guillermo del Toro = disheveled fat oily walking heart attacks.

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    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Peter Jackson used to be fat. He slimmed down years ago and seems to have kept the weight off, if this picture is recent.
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  93. Pericles says:
    @Lurker

    where the facility’s villainous supervisor (Michael Shannon) is largely driven by hatred of what he doesn’t understand.
     
    I haven't looked him up but would Mr. Shannon be a white gentleman perchance?

    And perhaps the sea creature turns out to be a handsome, muscular black man?

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    • Replies: @The Millennial Falcon
    Doug Jones is actually a garden variety white guy (and a Christian) and a veteran sea creature - played Abe Sapiens in Del Toro's Hellboys. Really nice guy.
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  94. Off-topic, but interesting excerpt from WaPo’s tut-tut-fest about Trump’s speech at the UN on North Korea:

    In the event of war, it is unlikely Chinese troops would fight alongside or on behalf of North Korean soldiers to defend the regime, as they did in the 1950-1953 Korean War, but they could enter the country to secure nuclear weapons sites and prevent U.S. troops from crossing into the North and installing a U.S.-friendly puppet government, some experts say.

    Liu Yang, Luna Lin and Shirley Feng contributed to this report.

    The passage could have come verbatim from the People’s Daily, whose representatives may have been credited at the bottom of the article. Apart from WaPo parroting Beijing’s line (Democracy dies in darkness? Really?) on North Korea, it’s interesting that China has more or less admitted that it will annex North Korea in the event of hostilities. Twinkie may have some insight on what the South Korean reaction might be to a Chinese invasion of the north.

    Given my personal experience with the intense nationalism of the average South Korean, albeit of an earlier generation, I expect they’ll be crossing the DMZ to take on the Chinese once they cross the Yalu, with or without American support. The wild card is whether North Koreans might actually start fighting the Chinese to get things warmed up.

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    • Replies: @CAL2
    My theory has been that the US works out a deal with China where China moves in, deposes Kim, installs a saner and still Sino-friendly gov't, and leaves.

    I've talked with a few people who have been to South Korea the past few years and I don't think the SK's have too realistic of an appraisal of reality. They think if the North invaded, the invasion would collapse once they saw the wealth of the South and the regime would collapse. I guess they never heard of pillaging.
    , @Yak-15
    It is speculated that the North Koreans nukes are mainly a hedge against Chinese invasion.
    , @StillCARealist
    Why on earth would China want North Korea? What about it could possibly help enrich their fat rulers?
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  95. Pericles says:
    @Dahlia
    Sims, the author of this piece:
    https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/None/sims/original.png

    He could have been the sea creature.

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  96. Pericles says:
    @BB753
    Has anybody watched del Toro's tv series "The Strain"? It's a terror show about vampires. One of the main villains is an evil Nazi vampire, while the Van Helsing figure is an old Jew who survived Treblinka Concentration Camp. Even though the action takes place in contemporary New York, you get constant flashbacks to the Holocaust. And the Nazi vampire has among other human minions : a heroic Mexican cholo blackmailed into working for the bad guys because of his mother's illegal status and a Waspy elderly tycoon who runs New York (shades of Trump) aspiring to the immortality granted by the vampires.
    Needless to say, the main hero, a young scientist, is Jewish too, and he fights alongside the grandson of a Ukrainian involuntary "Kapo" in Treblinka, among others.

    It does indeed seem strained.

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    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @BB753
    But the Holocaust sales pitch always seems to work with Jewish producers. Now that the youngest living Nazis are turning 100 years old and we're reaching "peak Nazi", turning them into immortal vampires was the only way to go to keep them as the eternal villains.
    In "Hellboy", also directed by Del Toro, you had a Nazi who had turned his body into sand inside a space suit to become immortal, or something along those lines.
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  97. eah says:
    @Yak-15
    Big Tom Callahan from Sandusky, Ohio?

    Kevin Farley, younger brother of Chris (RIP).

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  98. Clyde says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    Early 1960s Detroit was probably the peak for black culture and broad-based prosperity.

    Early 1960s Detroit was probably the peak for black culture and broad-based prosperity.

    I agree that black men laboring away in automobile and their affiliates. Getting great paychecks. This excess money had to be spent somewhere. All this created an electricity that lead to Motown and other music and culture that was all upbeat _ not cynical _ even their slow sad songs had a moral attached to them.

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    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    "Laboring away"? OK....
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  99. OT – I see that Steve is apparently a paid-up member of the Alt-Right, along with Vdare and Taki.

    https://archive.fo/eM2JC

    “Unlike the alt-light, who are concerned with Western culture, the alt-right has racism at its core and many of its adherents envisage a world comprised of racially pure ethno-states. Antisemitism, homophobia and extreme misogyny are core elements of alt-right ideology.”

    (Hope not Hate is (or was) a British group with opaque funding, who came to prominence the same time as the BNP did, then moved on to attack UKIP. By it’s lights the 1979 Tory party (and certainly the 1945 Labour Party) would have been considered “far right”.)

    I suppose it’s a twisted sort of compliment. What they’re worried about is that Steve notices too much.

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    • Replies: @Lurker
    Hope not Hate has a website (easy to find).

    They used to allow comments on the blog. But since "there are 0 comments" was the commonest phrase to be found on the site they seem to have abandoned that feature. If you're trying to portray yourself as a popular, grass-roots organisation then it's best not to expose the reality that it's a handful of government funded operatives working in obscurity.

    The main man is Nick Lowles, he may even be the only person actually employed by HnH!

    Since it was founded in 2004, HOPE not hate has become one of the largest and most successful political action groups in the country.

    Lie!

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  100. BB753 says:
    @Pericles
    It does indeed seem strained.

    But the Holocaust sales pitch always seems to work with Jewish producers. Now that the youngest living Nazis are turning 100 years old and we’re reaching “peak Nazi”, turning them into immortal vampires was the only way to go to keep them as the eternal villains.
    In “Hellboy”, also directed by Del Toro, you had a Nazi who had turned his body into sand inside a space suit to become immortal, or something along those lines.

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    • Replies: @Percy Gryce
    Speaking of Hellboy, it's all but obvious that The Shape of Water is an unofficial sequel about Hellboy's second banana Abe Sapien, a kind of Merman kept in a secret government lab. Del Toro even cast the same actor, Doug Jones. He was clearly pissed about being shut out of the new Hellboy movie. He's now simply bootstrapping onto the anti-Trump mania.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    IIRC they filmed some of the new reboot of Hellboy in the gorgeous Wells Cathedral.

    The Cucktians who control the place thought it was cool because 'his true nature is one of a hero and he becomes a defender against the forces of darkness. The eternal battle of good over evil which this story examines helps us to encourage an intelligent faith which does not hide from controversy and one that looks for the good inside people no matter their outward appearance.'

    https://www.christiantoday.com/article/the.latest.hellboy.film.features.nazis.and.the.occult.and.its.being.filmed.at.an.english.cathedral/114232.htm
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  101. Logan says:
    @Anonymous
    Del Toro: Another insufferable Mexican hypocrite.

    Mexico is one the most jingoist, chauvinist, nativist, nationalist societies in the world.

    And these Mexican creeps never get tired of coming to America and lecturing us that we are not open and universal enough.

    And IF we make the grade today ...we sure did not in the 60's! And that is what really matters.

    MUCK FEXICO.

    Somebody should ask him about Mexican laws on immigration and why America shouldn’t follow suit.

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  102. @Frau Katze
    Margaret Atwood is a fool. Of all the large religions, Christianity is the one most sympathetic to women.

    And they started converting early. In ancient Rome there were wealthy widows leaving their money to the Church. Too many, some thought.

    Constantine's mother was a fervent Christian and no doubt put the idea in his head.

    Indeed, some complain that Christianity is "feminine." Edward Gibbon claimed it contributed to the fall of Rome.

    The natural choice for extreme misogyny is Islam, but of course Atwood would never have considered that.

    As if women were sympathetic to women. Perhaps in theory and in general, certainly not in personal practice. It is men who fall over themselves to prove their sympathy to woman.

    None are so contemptuous of effeminacy as women. One imagines they’ve tired of the endless pretense of Churchianity.

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  103. Logan says:
    @Senator Brundlefly
    So if you frown upon people having sex with fish you're a bigot...or something. Cause in the 60's (which was the worst time in history apparently) people frowned upon ichthyological coitus and now that we're progressive and enlightened...we don't? Cause who in their right mind would "other" a fish? Sounds to me like Del Toro is a 12 year old who wanted to make a movie about monsters (and, you gotta admit, Creature from the Black Lagoon is one of the coolest looking movies monsters there is) and, being a weirdo, also wanted some fish sex in it. To pull that off without looking weird he needed to justify it as art so he makes a post hoc connection to Trump. Like, wouldn't a liberal who actually cares about migrants and whatnot think that comparing animal-human erotica to human policies regarding other human beings is kinda offensive? Or are we really so far down the rabbit hole that bestiality is the next cause célèbre that society must accept as wonderful?

    Plus, what does loving the "other" in a sexual manner have anything to do with Trump's policy agenda? I mean, I'd say something like District 9 is a more pertinent sci-fi concept to Trump's immigration policy (which is the main thing the left is pissed about). The thing I like about District 9 is that (despite ultimately falling on the wishy washy "feel bad for the poor aliens" trope), it actually presented a complex moral situation. Most of the Prawns were stupid, violent, drones completely unsuitable to human society. I could understand people not liking them. What do you do with a sentient population that is violent and unassimilatable and cannot be sent back where it came from?

    Somebody should ask him about Mexican laws on immigration and why America shouldn’t follow suit.

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  104. @eah
    racism

    Soon they'll be detecting it with ultrasound or an in utero EEG.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKNGs9LXcAAOOdb.jpg

    I first read that as “deleting” it in utero. You scared me there for a minute.

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  105. @BB753
    But the Holocaust sales pitch always seems to work with Jewish producers. Now that the youngest living Nazis are turning 100 years old and we're reaching "peak Nazi", turning them into immortal vampires was the only way to go to keep them as the eternal villains.
    In "Hellboy", also directed by Del Toro, you had a Nazi who had turned his body into sand inside a space suit to become immortal, or something along those lines.

    Speaking of Hellboy, it’s all but obvious that The Shape of Water is an unofficial sequel about Hellboy’s second banana Abe Sapien, a kind of Merman kept in a secret government lab. Del Toro even cast the same actor, Doug Jones. He was clearly pissed about being shut out of the new Hellboy movie. He’s now simply bootstrapping onto the anti-Trump mania.

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    • Agree: BB753
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  106. bomag says:
    @Wilkey
    Conquistador Mexicans have developed a neat trick where they ignore their own ancestors treatment of Mestizos and Amerindians in Mexico by harping on what Anglo-Celtic Americans have done in America.

    Basically if you are white you are guilty for anything and everything every other white person has done for all of history, even if your particular ancestors fought against those evils. I get no credit for my white ancestors who fought for the Union, and Brits get no credit for standing alone against the Axis for 18 months.

    If you're a person of color (which used here includes Jews and mostly/entirely white "Hispanics") you aren't guilty of crimes being committed by your own people right this very minute. I am guilty of lynchings that happened a century ago, but del Toro is innocent of all the murders happening in Mexico and Central America this very minute. He is innocent of the Inquisition (but I am not). He is innocent of the mass slaughter his ancestors engaged in while conquering the Americas.

    Basically if you are white you are guilty for anything and everything every other white person has done for all of history

    That’s really it. Only white people have agency; they are the caretakers, anyone else is their charge.

    This also stems from a sort of metastasized Christianity, where everyone (who matters) has sinned and fallen short of the grace of God, so they either have to abjectly plead for grace, or be punished forever for all those sins.

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  107. CAL2 says:
    @Yan Shen
    As someone who grew up in Texas and learned Texas history, although at this point I remember none of it, I've always been amused by those who lament the burgeoning Hispanic population in the Lone Star State and who decry the illegal immigrants who cross the border from Mexico into Texas as well.

    Not too long ago, white Americans were the original illegal immigrants to the land that currently is Texas and it was the Mexican government that had to crack down against them! Note this doesn't cause me to abandon my American nationalism, but unlike many here I suspect I'm far more empathetic to opposing points of view because I'm fundamentally aware of the contradictions present within the history of my own country.

    I’ve always been amused by those who lament the burgeoning Hispanic population in the Lone Star State and who decry the illegal immigrants who cross the border from Mexico into Texas as well.

    Not too long ago, white Americans were the original illegal immigrants to the land that currently is Texas and it was the Mexican government that had to crack down against them!

    So you recognize that population means control and then you find it amusing that your fellow Americans are upset about the growing Hispanic population. From before history, people have been taking land away from other people. Don’t you find it interesting the Mexicans think they own land that was taken from others and then taken from them?

    Might doesn’t make right but it is the only thing standing in the way of the guy next door wanting your stuff.

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  108. Movies usually take at least two years to go from conception to completion …

    Heavy Metal magazine beat Hollywood by 26yrs:

    In the July 1990 issue … we printed a story called “The Wall,” by Peter Kuper, about a conspiracy between Donald Trump and Harry Helmsley. Trump isn’t President here, but certain elements (hint: look to the title) are unmistakable.
    ….
    “The Wall” begins with a disavowal of well-known lines of “The New Colossus,” the poem associated with the Statue of Liberty. In this story, we’re living in a divided city where the haves and have nots can barely relate to each other.

    Ok, so Trump isn’t president in this 26-year-old story, but the man depicted is fully recognizable as the current President-elect. The tactics used to motivate followers, the faith in the power of walls, the goddamn hats — it was all there.

    http://www.heavymetal.com/news/president-elect-donald-trump-as-foretold-in-a-1990-heavy-metal-story/

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  109. “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”

    Perhaps he’s confusing the Sixties with the Fifties, or Twenties. But what do I know, I’m German-Irish Catholic by birth (with a small French percentage that I’m obviously rather fond of).

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  110. bomag says:
    @inertial

    The Shape of Water is a romantic, grown-up fairytale, where a mute woman (Sally Hawkins) working at a secret government facility in 1962 falls in love with a sea creature (Doug Jones) that’s being held there against its will. It’s a story of empathy triumphing over prejudice, one where the facility’s villainous supervisor (Michael Shannon) is largely driven by hatred of what he doesn’t understand.
     
    Wow, what an original concept! I hadn't seen a movie like that in over five minutes. Does it have villagers with torches and pitchforks who are storming the secret government facility so that they kill the creature?

    I have a slightly different idea for a movie. There is a sea creature at a not so secret government facility. It's not held against its will but lives there because they feed it. The creature acts truculent and says that it wants to kill people. Other parties, including foreign governments, warn that the creature is extremely dangerous. A nice, white, and definitely non-mute lady falls in love with the creature, or perhaps just adopts it as a pet. She convinces it to move to Boston, or perhaps Florida. The creature doesn't like the food in the new place, so it grows unhappier by the day. It becomes violent but everyone ignores that because they are afraid they'd be called speciesist. Finally, the creature makes a bomb and blows up bystanders at a marathon. Or perhaps it goes to a gay nightclub and shoots dozens of patrons. Flies a plane into a building? Well, we can always hire a script doctor to help us with this part.

    Last scene of the movie: A hundred more of similar sea creatures arrive at the facility. The nice white lady jumps into the aquarium and embraces them all.

    Excellent ideas, but they are too close to real life, and we can’t have any of that in our movies.

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  111. CAL2 says:
    @Johann Ricke
    Off-topic, but interesting excerpt from WaPo's tut-tut-fest about Trump's speech at the UN on North Korea:

    In the event of war, it is unlikely Chinese troops would fight alongside or on behalf of North Korean soldiers to defend the regime, as they did in the 1950-1953 Korean War, but they could enter the country to secure nuclear weapons sites and prevent U.S. troops from crossing into the North and installing a U.S.-friendly puppet government, some experts say.

    Liu Yang, Luna Lin and Shirley Feng contributed to this report.

     

    The passage could have come verbatim from the People's Daily, whose representatives may have been credited at the bottom of the article. Apart from WaPo parroting Beijing's line (Democracy dies in darkness? Really?) on North Korea, it's interesting that China has more or less admitted that it will annex North Korea in the event of hostilities. Twinkie may have some insight on what the South Korean reaction might be to a Chinese invasion of the north.

    Given my personal experience with the intense nationalism of the average South Korean, albeit of an earlier generation, I expect they'll be crossing the DMZ to take on the Chinese once they cross the Yalu, with or without American support. The wild card is whether North Koreans might actually start fighting the Chinese to get things warmed up.

    My theory has been that the US works out a deal with China where China moves in, deposes Kim, installs a saner and still Sino-friendly gov’t, and leaves.

    I’ve talked with a few people who have been to South Korea the past few years and I don’t think the SK’s have too realistic of an appraisal of reality. They think if the North invaded, the invasion would collapse once they saw the wealth of the South and the regime would collapse. I guess they never heard of pillaging.

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  112. bomag says:
    @Father O'Hara
    "Some call me one thing,some another."
    "Whatta they call ya most?"
    "Valance. Cherry Valance."
    "There are only two things more beautiful than a good gun. A Swiss watch or a woman from anywhere."
    I don't know if that last item would meet the approval of WNs.
    "A Swiss watch or a non obese white woman..."
    "I'm gonna kill ya,Matt."
    John Wayne was the best. He preferred Latinas,too. Wait,was that good...or bad?

    “There are only two things more beautiful than a good gun. A Swiss watch or a woman from anywhere.”

    I’d edit it to: “…a good woman from anywhere.

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  113. @Buzz Mohawk
    White Mexicans are upper class. They don't care about you and me (assuming that you and I are not upper class.)

    You will find this everywhere. The upper classes from every country have the same perspective on life and their entitlement. A lot of those assholes buy homes in America because it's a nice place. What they miss about their home countries is all the poor servants. They want more here.

    A lot of those assholes buy homes in America because it’s a nice place. What they miss about their home countries is all the poor servants. They want more here.

    Isn’t it more a matter of the Mexican ruling class dumping their round brown underclass on the United States so that they don’t have to put together a well-run nation that provides sufficient opportunity for all of its people?

    I recall someone once writing that during the Cold War – at least after Eisenhower – the U.S. sort of looked the other way so that Mexico could “boil off” its underclass which would be the most fertile ground for the seeds of Communist revolution planted by Soviet and Cuban intelligence to grow. The calculation was that it was better a the time for the U.S. to host these people than for Mexico to fall and have a Commie regime on our Southern border. I don’t know how true this is though.

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    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    it was better a the time for the U.S. to host these people than for Mexico to fall and have a Commie regime on our Southern border

    I remember someone bringing this up to the late, great, NYC talk show host Bob Grant in the 1980s. Grant responded, "Are you kidding? It would be GREAT if Mexico went communist! They'd build a wall around the place and shoot everyone who tried to get out!"
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  114. @Wilkey
    Nothing Trump has said comes even remotely close to the hate Jane Fonda spewed about American servicemen in Vietnam. And those assholes let her on stage.

    No one with any sense has ever cared about what Jane Fonda may say; she is famous for other reasons.

    What, you think Roger Vadim cast her and married her becuase she has acting chops that put Judy Dench to shame, or that Ted Turner married her for her astute advice about how to run his businesses?

    As Tom Leykis would say: “C’mone.”

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  115. Guillermo del Toro? Billy the Bull.

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  116. @neutral
    An even more direct and unsubtle Hollywood tackling of Trump is this from Morgan Freeman:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz9PNoecNxU

    This is the brainchild of a neocon gang calling itself "The Committee to Investigate Russia" (serious), with Max Boot being the head of this.

    Talentless fool with silly-ass earrings. Multi-millionaire for no reason whatsoever.

    Fact is the truely great talents in HW just happen to be DT supporters : Clint, Bruce (Willis), among others.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and pro Jazz musician.

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  117. ChrisZ says:
    @peterike

    I can assure Senor Del Toro that the 60′s were a pretty great time to be growing up in America if you were a Catholic and, from my observations of my classmates, it was pretty freakin’ great if you were Jewish as well.

     

    Hell, it was even pretty great to be black in America in the 1960s, until Lyndon Johnson sent it all to hell and the blacks let the Jews use them as resentful shock troops in their eternal Hate Whitey campaign (which went by the name of the "Civil Rights Movement," which was neither civil, nor concerned with rights).

    There’s a great movie idea lurking in that observation, Peter. It would take a subtle wit to pull it off–maybe involving some sci-fi element. An SJW time traveler goes back to 1962 to “right” all the perceived “wrongs,” and finds it much better than advertised? He looks up all his old “heroes” (LBJ, etc.) to find out what went wrong, and discovers they’re the villains who put things on the path to perdition?

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  118. @Dave Pinsen
    Early 1960s Detroit was probably the peak for black culture and broad-based prosperity.

    Right you are, and there was a pulsing Jazz scene at that time. Everybody Miles, Trane, Diz, every big name in Jazz was present.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained us army Vet, and pro Jazz artist.

    PS Oh yeah almost forgot : I was born in Highland Park, grew up in the at that time, serene Rouge Park area.

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    • Replies: @daniel le mouche
    Coleman Young's autobiography is very interesting on this. The Bottom was the most vibrant part of the city, black and next to downtown. What'd they do? Built a freeway right through the middle of it.
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  119. @Yan Shen
    As someone who grew up in Texas and learned Texas history, although at this point I remember none of it, I've always been amused by those who lament the burgeoning Hispanic population in the Lone Star State and who decry the illegal immigrants who cross the border from Mexico into Texas as well.

    Not too long ago, white Americans were the original illegal immigrants to the land that currently is Texas and it was the Mexican government that had to crack down against them! Note this doesn't cause me to abandon my American nationalism, but unlike many here I suspect I'm far more empathetic to opposing points of view because I'm fundamentally aware of the contradictions present within the history of my own country.

    There is no contradiction. We took it from the Mexicans who seceded from the Spanish who conquered the hunter-gatherers, who engaged in frequent wars over forage and women, sometimes wiping out their neighbors entirely. There, I’ve just described the history of the planet.

    Sovereignty is the big leagues; it’s an anarchic order, not a civic one.

    The Westphalian construct, while useful for maintaining order among the countries that actually matter, breaks down somewhat in that the world is now full of putative sovereigns who are actually incapable of self-governance, with their citizens voting against self-rule with their feet, by the millions.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Sovereignty is the big leagues; it’s an anarchic order, not a civic one.
     
    That's exactly backwards.

    It was civilization that enabled the dominance (archy) of the West.
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  120. @BB753
    Has anybody watched del Toro's tv series "The Strain"? It's a terror show about vampires. One of the main villains is an evil Nazi vampire, while the Van Helsing figure is an old Jew who survived Treblinka Concentration Camp. Even though the action takes place in contemporary New York, you get constant flashbacks to the Holocaust. And the Nazi vampire has among other human minions : a heroic Mexican cholo blackmailed into working for the bad guys because of his mother's illegal status and a Waspy elderly tycoon who runs New York (shades of Trump) aspiring to the immortality granted by the vampires.
    Needless to say, the main hero, a young scientist, is Jewish too, and he fights alongside the grandson of a Ukrainian involuntary "Kapo" in Treblinka, among others.

    Wait, so the Proxy for Dr. Van Helsing is, what, ninety? One hundred? Is he himself a vampire? If not, how is he still spry enough to be chasing them around New York in 2017 if he was also in a concentration camp c. 1940? At best let’s say he was a babe in the camp: he is still a good sixty-seven years old. (And if this is the gimmick, are the flashbacks about him breastfeeding and pooping his diapers?)

    Nevermind; I’ve a more meaningful question: Why are you all still consuming (and thereby subsidising) this garbage? You want to read about vampires? Stoker and Rice (and countless in between) have written excellent novels exploring the idea. Hammer Studios made some excellent films about vampires starring brilliant actors such as Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee. Gather some friends for a game of Dungeons & Dragons and do battle with the undead. I could write constructive, fun, healthy ways to enjoy vampires and related imaginative, legendary things all day, not one of them involving sending money to this fat, Mexican bastard who clearly holds most anyone who would be interested in Steve’s work in contempt.

    I imagine a man who’s wife shamelessly takes lovers. Half the time when he returns home from work there she is, in bed naked – nay, in the very throes of the act itself! – with the milkman, the postman, the pool-boy, the gardener, the neighbor, the pastor, a midget and two goats…. Each time our hero clucks his tongue most disapprovingly, then takes a seat to watch the interlopers finish the deed, after which he launders the bedding, cooks everyone a meal, and writes more checks for the mortgage on the house his wife inhabits, the groceries she consumes, and so forth. He’s positively appalled, of course, by her deplorable behaviour and the way she carries on with it to his detriment.

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    • Replies: @BB753
    The Jewish Van Helsing character is almost 100 years but is kept younger by taking some sort of vampire serum.
    And yes, I've watched a good deal of the old Hammer Studios Dracula classics. And I read the book by Bram Stoker when I was 15 or so. . So what?

    Frankly, I'm not interested in del Toro's marital life, if that's what you were describing.

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  121. @Tim Howells
    Duke Ellington wrote a suite called "Black Brown and Beige" that celebrated the Whitening of Black culture as reflected in musical styles. It would be interesting to trace the collapse of Black musical culture from Ellington and Strayhorn to Snoop Dogg and Lil Wayne, and the responsible social influences. One hell of a story there.

    Amen Bro : ” The collapse of Black musical culture”

    I have been saying this for years : when the blacks lost their own music, they lost one of the the most prominent grounds for historical pride within their culture.

    Jazz Trumpet Star Wynton Marsalis said it breaks his heart to see only white faces at his concerts, while Rappers rake in hundreds of millions with no descernable talent.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US army Vet, and pro jazz musician.

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  122. @Yan Shen
    I haven't seen most of the best picture contenders out thus far, but my favorite movie so far in 2017 has been Logan. Although I doubt it'll win, it would be nice if it could at least garner a nomination for Best Picture. The academy's snub of the Dark Knight back in the day was supposedly the reason why the Best Picture nominees pool expanded from 5 to up to 10 per year. So it would make sense that a superhero movie even better than the Dark Knight would get a nomination this year...

    Logan may be the best superhero movie I’ve seen, though I also liked the first Captain America movie (for different reasons).

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  123. Tex says:
    @syonredux

    The film takes place in the ’60s, when the country is a forward-looking superpower, but the story is set largely within a darker underbelly. “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”
     
    Yeah, I mean we all recall what a marginalized figure Frank Sinatra was in the '60s.....It was so terribly unfortunate that being Italian hampered his career so severely....In a different, more enlightened America, he would have been a big star....

    There’s a theory that the Kennedy family might have gone far in politics if it weren’t for their crazy Catholicism.

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    • Replies: @AM

    There’s a theory that the Kennedy family might have gone far in politics if it weren’t for their crazy Catholicism.
     
    I hope we get around to electing a Catholic President someday. Or maybe we can get some supreme court justices.

    I've been overwhelmed by the oppression in the States. It's terrible.
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  124. @Mr. Anon

    Handmaid’s Tale wouldn’t have gotten any attention if weren’t for the supposedly perfect political timeliness that the vagina-hats are projecting onto it.
     
    I remember lefty feminist types talking admiringly about The Handmaid's Tale back in the 80s. The premise of it - a theocratic state in contemporary New England - was ridiculous then. It is even more ridiculous now. It is a ridiculous premise anywhere in the western world, outside of Warren Jeff's house or muslim enclaves.

    What I find especially funny about the current incarnation is how it is touted as some kind of warning about social brain-washing and the danger of religious cults.............while the star of the show, Elisabeth Moss, is a scientologist.

    The Handmaid’s Tale is popular among progressives as a cautionary tale about the threat posed by fundamentalist Christianity. But rather than being a fantasy about that, it’s actually a picture of life among devout Muslims today, yet Muslims are popular with progressives too.

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  125. @Anon
    That picture of Peter Jackson & Guillermo del Toro = disheveled fat oily walking heart attacks.

    Peter Jackson used to be fat. He slimmed down years ago and seems to have kept the weight off, if this picture is recent.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Peter Jackson used to be fat. He slimmed down years ago and seems to have kept the weight off, if this picture is recent.
     
    Now, only his movies are fat. But he seems incapable of slimming those down.
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  126. @Alec Leamas

    A lot of those assholes buy homes in America because it’s a nice place. What they miss about their home countries is all the poor servants. They want more here.
     
    Isn't it more a matter of the Mexican ruling class dumping their round brown underclass on the United States so that they don't have to put together a well-run nation that provides sufficient opportunity for all of its people?

    I recall someone once writing that during the Cold War - at least after Eisenhower - the U.S. sort of looked the other way so that Mexico could "boil off" its underclass which would be the most fertile ground for the seeds of Communist revolution planted by Soviet and Cuban intelligence to grow. The calculation was that it was better a the time for the U.S. to host these people than for Mexico to fall and have a Commie regime on our Southern border. I don't know how true this is though.

    it was better a the time for the U.S. to host these people than for Mexico to fall and have a Commie regime on our Southern border

    I remember someone bringing this up to the late, great, NYC talk show host Bob Grant in the 1980s. Grant responded, “Are you kidding? It would be GREAT if Mexico went communist! They’d build a wall around the place and shoot everyone who tried to get out!”

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    • Replies: @Look Sharp
    If Mexico went communist nothing would change at all. I learned this when I went to GTMO, sure the Cubans are communists, but mostly they're lazy, happy-go-lucky Caribbean people. Sure they hate the U.S.A. and yeah, yeah, they're going to destroy us, but--you know--tomorrow, man, I need to take a nap.
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  127. @Perspective

    The film takes place in the ’60s, when the country is a forward-looking superpower, but the story is set largely within a darker underbelly. “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”
     
    Why are they peddling this daft fantasy? My grandmother fled Ukraine in the late 1940s to America junior (Canada), was obviously not Anglo-Protestant, and by all accounts had a great life during the 60's and was eternally greatful to be living here. It goes without saying, that many White Anglo-Saxon Protestants were not exactly living the life of riley in Appalachia either.

    “Why are they peddling this daft fantasy?”

    Why do they do anything? Because doing so nets them more power over everyone.

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  128. @eah
    racism

    Soon they'll be detecting it with ultrasound or an in utero EEG.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKNGs9LXcAAOOdb.jpg

    I need to use this pic of the “racist baby” as my new avi!

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  129. Yak-15 says:
    @Johann Ricke
    Off-topic, but interesting excerpt from WaPo's tut-tut-fest about Trump's speech at the UN on North Korea:

    In the event of war, it is unlikely Chinese troops would fight alongside or on behalf of North Korean soldiers to defend the regime, as they did in the 1950-1953 Korean War, but they could enter the country to secure nuclear weapons sites and prevent U.S. troops from crossing into the North and installing a U.S.-friendly puppet government, some experts say.

    Liu Yang, Luna Lin and Shirley Feng contributed to this report.

     

    The passage could have come verbatim from the People's Daily, whose representatives may have been credited at the bottom of the article. Apart from WaPo parroting Beijing's line (Democracy dies in darkness? Really?) on North Korea, it's interesting that China has more or less admitted that it will annex North Korea in the event of hostilities. Twinkie may have some insight on what the South Korean reaction might be to a Chinese invasion of the north.

    Given my personal experience with the intense nationalism of the average South Korean, albeit of an earlier generation, I expect they'll be crossing the DMZ to take on the Chinese once they cross the Yalu, with or without American support. The wild card is whether North Koreans might actually start fighting the Chinese to get things warmed up.

    It is speculated that the North Koreans nukes are mainly a hedge against Chinese invasion.

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    • Replies: @AM

    It is speculated that the North Koreans nukes are mainly a hedge against Chinese invasion.
     
    Another theory that makes more sense to me is that the Chinese use the threat of North Korean nukes to get economic leverage with the West.

    Basically, we concede to completely unfair economic terms and they agree to deal with the North Korea problem which mysteriously never gets solved. Rinse and repeat every single time a "crisis" happens.

    The reality is North Korea is a protectorate of China right now, albeit unofficial. Without China, the whole country would collapse probably with a very short time span.

    That's why bring back jobs to the US and the North Korea Rocket Man problem are intertwined. If that theory is true, Trump has just turned China's leverage on it's head and said, we're taking everything back until you solve this permanently. We have that leverage, we've just never had the guts to go down that road.

    Either way we win: problem solved and we have more freedom to negotiate fairer deals with China or it's not solved and China gets hoist on it's own petard and we get as many jobs as possible back. Works for me.

    (Just as PS -this is not my theory - you can find more details about it a blog called The Conservative Treehouse.)
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  130. @The Anti-Gnostic
    There is no contradiction. We took it from the Mexicans who seceded from the Spanish who conquered the hunter-gatherers, who engaged in frequent wars over forage and women, sometimes wiping out their neighbors entirely. There, I've just described the history of the planet.

    Sovereignty is the big leagues; it's an anarchic order, not a civic one.

    The Westphalian construct, while useful for maintaining order among the countries that actually matter, breaks down somewhat in that the world is now full of putative sovereigns who are actually incapable of self-governance, with their citizens voting against self-rule with their feet, by the millions.

    Sovereignty is the big leagues; it’s an anarchic order, not a civic one.

    That’s exactly backwards.

    It was civilization that enabled the dominance (archy) of the West.

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    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    No, you need to go back a couple of steps. Civilization came from farmers who settled a territory, either by entry on virgin land or squashing the hunter-gatherers already there. Once you have a territory and can write whatever rules you want for it, you're sovereign. Being sovereign means there's no higher power than you--you're only bound by what you agree to. But since you're sovereign, if you decide it's no longer worth your while to agree, then that's just tough luck for everybody else unless they have a bigger or better military. Then you're no longer sovereign.

    "The Man Who Would Be King" is a great story about one man's attempt to acquire sovereignty.

    Sovereignty is always up for grabs. There's no Super-Duper Court of Sovereignty enforcing a Code of Sovereignty out there.

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  131. @Yan Shen
    As someone who grew up in Texas and learned Texas history, although at this point I remember none of it, I've always been amused by those who lament the burgeoning Hispanic population in the Lone Star State and who decry the illegal immigrants who cross the border from Mexico into Texas as well.

    Not too long ago, white Americans were the original illegal immigrants to the land that currently is Texas and it was the Mexican government that had to crack down against them! Note this doesn't cause me to abandon my American nationalism, but unlike many here I suspect I'm far more empathetic to opposing points of view because I'm fundamentally aware of the contradictions present within the history of my own country.

    If you have the appropriate amounts of the XY chromosome, you might note that an important difference involving blood and iron. Implicitly, we all understand the right of conquest and its only the perpetual losers who will be trapped in whining about it. I suggest visiting the ruins of the Summer Palace in Beijing and reflect that despite everything, note how the Chinese blame the West much less than they blame themselves.

    There’s a reason, and its an important point from a Confucian perspective of practicality. Incidentally, he would also probably suggest that you try to remember the history before you offer opinions on it.

    “Those who are born with the possession of knowledge are the highest class of men. Those who learn, and so readily get possession of knowledge, are the next. Those who are dull and stupid, and yet compass the learning are another class next to these. As to those who are dull and stupid and yet do not learn–they are the lowest of the people.”

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    And at any rate, China doesn't just use Confucianism. Han Fei's "Fa Jia" Legalist thought is never that far from the current government's actual political philosophy, and without Qin Shi Huang there wouldn't be modern China.
    , @Vinteuil
    “Those who are born with the possession of knowledge are the highest class of men. Those who learn, and so readily get possession of knowledge, are the next. Those who are dull and stupid, and yet compass the learning are another class next to these. As to those who are dull and stupid and yet do not learn–they are the lowest of the people.”

    Interesting quote - is this Confucius himself? is this from the Analects? Can you give me a reference?

    I'd like to compare & contrast this with what Plato, in the Republic, and Aristotle, in the Nicomachean Ethics, have to say about these interesting questions. (I'm right now in the middle of teaching a course on Ethical Theory).

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  132. Lurker says:
    @Nigerian Nationalist
    My Condolences: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/20/end-of-white-christian-america

    It’s not over ’til the fat lady sings.

    Though I’m not sure if Lena Dunham can sing?

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  133. @Charles Pewitt
    Conquistador Mexicans have developed a neat trick where they ignore their own ancestors treatment of Mestizos and Amerindians in Mexico by harping on what Anglo-Celtic Americans have done in America.

    Deport the illegal alien infiltrators back to Mexico, turn off the safety valve, and then let the Mestizos and Amerindians in Mexico do what they will with the pasty-faced Conquistador Mexicans.

    “Conquistador Mexicans have developed a neat trick where they ignore their own ancestors treatment of Mestizos and Amerindians in Mexico by harping on what Anglo-Celtic Americans have done in America”

    Kind of like the neat trick Jews have done by inventing the concept of “white privilege” when they, in fact, are the wealthiest and most powerful and nepotistic race in the world?

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  134. @AndrewR
    He may be white but he's not a WASP. I obviously don't buy his absurd claim that the US was only a great place for WASPs 55 years ago, but that doesn't make him a WASP

    Did I, (and apparently everyone else) miss the part where Steve said he was a WASP?

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Del Toro: America was only great in 1960 if you were a WASP

    Sailer: LOL Del Toro thinks he's a POC

    Del Toro never claimed to be a POC. Many purebred WASPs actually believe what del Toro believes.
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  135. @Clyde

    Early 1960s Detroit was probably the peak for black culture and broad-based prosperity.
     
    I agree that black men laboring away in automobile and their affiliates. Getting great paychecks. This excess money had to be spent somewhere. All this created an electricity that lead to Motown and other music and culture that was all upbeat _ not cynical _ even their slow sad songs had a moral attached to them.

    “Laboring away”? OK….

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  136. @Svigor

    It’s always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?
     
    Kato, I see you spent none of the time away in practice. Your gung-fu is still very weak. We want Whites to respect their own national and ethnic rights. We know perfectly well non-Whites won't respect them otherwise. The Indians fought for their land (and lived by the right of conquest, so of course the land is Whitey's now - tweren't the yellows or the brows or the blacks or the Jews who whupped the red man, it was the white man), the Spanish fought the Anglo-Celts for the land they took from the Indians and lost, etc.

    . Or, for that matter, the People’s Republic of China ruling over territories that were acquired by the Qing Dynasty….
     
    What was the name of that Muslim Mongoloid race that the Chinese exterminated? Hold on, checking the archives...ah, here we are - the Dzungars. See, the Chinese exterminated (as in, genocide, as in, wiped out) the Dzungars. So who are the Chinese to lecture us about our lesser offenses? Seems awfully hypocritical - as in more than a little.

    Funny, I can't recall you ever criticizing Zionism, Kato. It's the current clear and present main offender to what you're preaching here, but never once can I recall you ever raising your hand against your Jewish betters Zionists. Not very brave of you...but very Chinese.

    Frankly, he’s not very Chinese at all. I seriously wonder if he’s just a troll, there’s a lot of weird gaps in his understanding.

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    • Replies: @res
    He has been around the internet with the same shtick for years. Does not exclude the possibility of his being a troll, but makes it less likely IMHO. Is being raised in the US from a young age enough to explain what you are seeing?

    It seems to be a trend for US raised (either child immigrant or second generation) ethnics to get a tragic mix of excessive nationalism with a deficit in the virtues of the original cultures. By no means everyone, but enough to be a problem.
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  137. @Yan Shen
    Sightly off topic but related to Mexico.

    Steve, any thoughts about the legitimacy of the United States annexing the Republic of Texas back in the day and ultimately gaining all of the territories ceded by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo at the conclusion of the Mexican American War? I'm not much of a historian, but my basic understanding as a Texan is that uh basically after Stephen F. Austin settled Texas with 300 families with the permission of the Mexican government, a steady stream of American immigrants migrated to the territory and soon outnumbered the native Spanish speakers, at which point the rest is history.

    Not that this would ever happen, but do you think there's any validity to the Reconquista sentiments endorsed by some far left Hispanic activists? As an American who believes strongly in nationalism and what you might describe as citizenism, sometimes I find myself at odds with the history of my country.

    It's always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    Interesting perspective……..how would you say the annexation of Texas from Mexico is different from China’s annexation of Tibet?

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  138. Lurker says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    OT - I see that Steve is apparently a paid-up member of the Alt-Right, along with Vdare and Taki.

    https://archive.fo/eM2JC


    "Unlike the alt-light, who are concerned with Western culture, the alt-right has racism at its core and many of its adherents envisage a world comprised of racially pure ethno-states. Antisemitism, homophobia and extreme misogyny are core elements of alt-right ideology."
     
    (Hope not Hate is (or was) a British group with opaque funding, who came to prominence the same time as the BNP did, then moved on to attack UKIP. By it's lights the 1979 Tory party (and certainly the 1945 Labour Party) would have been considered "far right".)

    I suppose it's a twisted sort of compliment. What they're worried about is that Steve notices too much.

    Hope not Hate has a website (easy to find).

    They used to allow comments on the blog. But since “there are 0 comments” was the commonest phrase to be found on the site they seem to have abandoned that feature. If you’re trying to portray yourself as a popular, grass-roots organisation then it’s best not to expose the reality that it’s a handful of government funded operatives working in obscurity.

    The main man is Nick Lowles, he may even be the only person actually employed by HnH!

    Since it was founded in 2004, HOPE not hate has become one of the largest and most successful political action groups in the country.

    Lie!

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  139. Tex says:
    @theo the kraut
    OT--https://twitter.com/CHSommers/status/910704804283998210

    - "Dear Women's March: She murdered two college students in 1970--then concealed her murder conviction from US immigration. Find better allies."

    http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/political-activist-rasmea-odeh-a-symbol-of-deportations-many-faces/?utm_content=buffer4754b

    - Rasmea Odeh was deported Tuesday.

    - The 70-year-old Palestinian immigrant, whose U.S. citizenship was revoked by Immigration and Customs Enforcement for not disclosing having served time as a prisoner in Israel, didn’t cry until the end, only after ICE refused her huge crowd of supporters entry into the airport.

    Reminds me of Pablo "They" Gomez, BLM has also its fair share of murderous weirdos. #whacktivists

    https://www.google.de/search?q=site:unz.com+activist+murderer

    What does every hard-core, willing-to-kill-for-the-cause (dying is optional), Palestinian nationalist want? To move to America!

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    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    A couple of years ago, I looked out the window onto Madison & Clinton downtown Chicago and a big mob of these people had shut down Madison Street protesting the Israelis; only then did I realize just how many Muslims Bush and Obama have let into America.
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  140. @Harry Baldwin
    it was better a the time for the U.S. to host these people than for Mexico to fall and have a Commie regime on our Southern border

    I remember someone bringing this up to the late, great, NYC talk show host Bob Grant in the 1980s. Grant responded, "Are you kidding? It would be GREAT if Mexico went communist! They'd build a wall around the place and shoot everyone who tried to get out!"

    If Mexico went communist nothing would change at all. I learned this when I went to GTMO, sure the Cubans are communists, but mostly they’re lazy, happy-go-lucky Caribbean people. Sure they hate the U.S.A. and yeah, yeah, they’re going to destroy us, but–you know–tomorrow, man, I need to take a nap.

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  141. @ziel
    “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”

    I can assure Senor Del Toro that the 60's were a pretty great time to be growing up in America if you were a Catholic and, from my observations of my classmates, it was pretty freakin' great if you were Jewish as well.

    "Well I'm so glad I'm livin' in the USA" - Chuck Berry, 1964.

    My Mexican Catholic grandparents and mother attained middle-class status in the 1960s after my grandfather got a job as an electrical tech with NASA. A great time for a lot of people.

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  142. @Daniel Chieh
    If you have the appropriate amounts of the XY chromosome, you might note that an important difference involving blood and iron. Implicitly, we all understand the right of conquest and its only the perpetual losers who will be trapped in whining about it. I suggest visiting the ruins of the Summer Palace in Beijing and reflect that despite everything, note how the Chinese blame the West much less than they blame themselves.

    There's a reason, and its an important point from a Confucian perspective of practicality. Incidentally, he would also probably suggest that you try to remember the history before you offer opinions on it.

    "Those who are born with the possession of knowledge are the highest class of men. Those who learn, and so readily get possession of knowledge, are the next. Those who are dull and stupid, and yet compass the learning are another class next to these. As to those who are dull and stupid and yet do not learn--they are the lowest of the people."

    And at any rate, China doesn’t just use Confucianism. Han Fei’s “Fa Jia” Legalist thought is never that far from the current government’s actual political philosophy, and without Qin Shi Huang there wouldn’t be modern China.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    As we seem doomed to suffer Orientals in our midst, may we at least request more like you and less like Yan Shen?
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  143. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”-Guillermo del Toro a/k/a “Bill the Bull”.

    How would Bill the Bull know? He was a year old circa 1965 and living in Mejico! Wonder how many of the so-called “oppressed” would really think of themselves as oppressed absent the likes of Bill the Bull? Or Official MacArthur Foundation Genius T-N Coates for that matter?

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    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    The trick is not to just to try and destroy WASP history, but to co-opt it. It is not enough to say that 90% white America defeated the Germans or Japanese but to say that it was really Afro-Americans and Latinos who won the war. They just did not get credit due to racism. Ditto for Confederate war statues. In its place we will have statues of all the black Union soldiers (or civil rights leaders) who single handedly defeated the racist south. America put a man on the moon; not white Americans, etc.
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  144. Spandrell says: • Website
    @Svigor

    It’s always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?
     
    Kato, I see you spent none of the time away in practice. Your gung-fu is still very weak. We want Whites to respect their own national and ethnic rights. We know perfectly well non-Whites won't respect them otherwise. The Indians fought for their land (and lived by the right of conquest, so of course the land is Whitey's now - tweren't the yellows or the brows or the blacks or the Jews who whupped the red man, it was the white man), the Spanish fought the Anglo-Celts for the land they took from the Indians and lost, etc.

    . Or, for that matter, the People’s Republic of China ruling over territories that were acquired by the Qing Dynasty….
     
    What was the name of that Muslim Mongoloid race that the Chinese exterminated? Hold on, checking the archives...ah, here we are - the Dzungars. See, the Chinese exterminated (as in, genocide, as in, wiped out) the Dzungars. So who are the Chinese to lecture us about our lesser offenses? Seems awfully hypocritical - as in more than a little.

    Funny, I can't recall you ever criticizing Zionism, Kato. It's the current clear and present main offender to what you're preaching here, but never once can I recall you ever raising your hand against your Jewish betters Zionists. Not very brave of you...but very Chinese.

    The Dzungars weren’t Muslim. They were the western branch of the Mongol people. They waged war against China again and again; and they were exterminated.

    The Uyghurs are settled Muslims, back then the servants of the Dzungars before China took over. Those weren’t exterminated, indeed the Uyghurs themselves rebelled later and exterminated all the Chinese military in the area.

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  145. @BB753
    But the Holocaust sales pitch always seems to work with Jewish producers. Now that the youngest living Nazis are turning 100 years old and we're reaching "peak Nazi", turning them into immortal vampires was the only way to go to keep them as the eternal villains.
    In "Hellboy", also directed by Del Toro, you had a Nazi who had turned his body into sand inside a space suit to become immortal, or something along those lines.

    IIRC they filmed some of the new reboot of Hellboy in the gorgeous Wells Cathedral.

    The Cucktians who control the place thought it was cool because ‘his true nature is one of a hero and he becomes a defender against the forces of darkness. The eternal battle of good over evil which this story examines helps us to encourage an intelligent faith which does not hide from controversy and one that looks for the good inside people no matter their outward appearance.’

    https://www.christiantoday.com/article/the.latest.hellboy.film.features.nazis.and.the.occult.and.its.being.filmed.at.an.english.cathedral/114232.htm

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  146. EdwardM says:
    @wren
    It seems to me that, if he wanted to, Trump or friends could put together some pretty good, funny, or clever anti- anti- Trump movies.

    It's not like he has no experience in the entertainment industry or his own secretary of the treasury hasn't produced several dozen movies recently or anything.

    There is lots of material out there. This blog right here seems to churn out documentary/drama/comedy-ready stuff on a daily basis.

    And he won the vote too, so it is not like there isn't an audience for it.

    Then Trump would be accused of using his influence to create crude propaganda to brainwash the American people. Cue the Leni Riefenstahl references.

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  147. @Desiderius

    Sovereignty is the big leagues; it’s an anarchic order, not a civic one.
     
    That's exactly backwards.

    It was civilization that enabled the dominance (archy) of the West.

    No, you need to go back a couple of steps. Civilization came from farmers who settled a territory, either by entry on virgin land or squashing the hunter-gatherers already there. Once you have a territory and can write whatever rules you want for it, you’re sovereign. Being sovereign means there’s no higher power than you–you’re only bound by what you agree to. But since you’re sovereign, if you decide it’s no longer worth your while to agree, then that’s just tough luck for everybody else unless they have a bigger or better military. Then you’re no longer sovereign.

    “The Man Who Would Be King” is a great story about one man’s attempt to acquire sovereignty.

    Sovereignty is always up for grabs. There’s no Super-Duper Court of Sovereignty enforcing a Code of Sovereignty out there.

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    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @AM

    Sovereignty is always up for grabs. There’s no Super-Duper Court of Sovereignty enforcing a Code of Sovereignty out there.
     
    Christians had civilization in the middle east, but they lost sovereignty over the course of hundreds of years. Now it's hard to locate any Christian communities except in odd pockets.
    , @Desiderius
    Of course.

    And the West has been sovereign until recently due to their unrivaled dominance (archy) predicated upon their superior civilization.

    This is why those seeking to usurp that sovereignty have focused on destroying Western understanding of/appreciation for its civilization. With great effect.
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  148. AndrewR says:
    @Johnny Smoggins
    Did I, (and apparently everyone else) miss the part where Steve said he was a WASP?

    Del Toro: America was only great in 1960 if you were a WASP

    Sailer: LOL Del Toro thinks he’s a POC

    Del Toro never claimed to be a POC. Many purebred WASPs actually believe what del Toro believes.

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  149. AM says:
    @Yan Shen
    Sightly off topic but related to Mexico.

    Steve, any thoughts about the legitimacy of the United States annexing the Republic of Texas back in the day and ultimately gaining all of the territories ceded by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo at the conclusion of the Mexican American War? I'm not much of a historian, but my basic understanding as a Texan is that uh basically after Stephen F. Austin settled Texas with 300 families with the permission of the Mexican government, a steady stream of American immigrants migrated to the territory and soon outnumbered the native Spanish speakers, at which point the rest is history.

    Not that this would ever happen, but do you think there's any validity to the Reconquista sentiments endorsed by some far left Hispanic activists? As an American who believes strongly in nationalism and what you might describe as citizenism, sometimes I find myself at odds with the history of my country.

    It's always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    It’s always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    I see you’ve had other, more thoughtful replies. Refer to them for convincing. I’ll now add my own first thoughts

    Ha, ha, ha! Really? A check in about morality from an ethnicity that threw the dead bodies of forced labor into their Great Wall? (Otherwise you’d have to stop and bury them – what a waste) That annexed and colonized Tibet? That’s probably using North Korea as a shield and weapon to get it what it wants economically on the world stage?

    Thanks for the help, but no thanks. Every land on the planet was conquered at some point. The Trumpian doctrine simply stated, is let’s stay home, work on those problems, and be content. If US history bothers you that much, I’m sure the country that actually believes that might equals right would be happy to have you back.

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  150. AM says:
    @Tex
    There's a theory that the Kennedy family might have gone far in politics if it weren't for their crazy Catholicism.

    There’s a theory that the Kennedy family might have gone far in politics if it weren’t for their crazy Catholicism.

    I hope we get around to electing a Catholic President someday. Or maybe we can get some supreme court justices.

    I’ve been overwhelmed by the oppression in the States. It’s terrible.

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  151. AM says:
    @Yak-15
    It is speculated that the North Koreans nukes are mainly a hedge against Chinese invasion.

    It is speculated that the North Koreans nukes are mainly a hedge against Chinese invasion.

    Another theory that makes more sense to me is that the Chinese use the threat of North Korean nukes to get economic leverage with the West.

    Basically, we concede to completely unfair economic terms and they agree to deal with the North Korea problem which mysteriously never gets solved. Rinse and repeat every single time a “crisis” happens.

    The reality is North Korea is a protectorate of China right now, albeit unofficial. Without China, the whole country would collapse probably with a very short time span.

    That’s why bring back jobs to the US and the North Korea Rocket Man problem are intertwined. If that theory is true, Trump has just turned China’s leverage on it’s head and said, we’re taking everything back until you solve this permanently. We have that leverage, we’ve just never had the guts to go down that road.

    Either way we win: problem solved and we have more freedom to negotiate fairer deals with China or it’s not solved and China gets hoist on it’s own petard and we get as many jobs as possible back. Works for me.

    (Just as PS -this is not my theory – you can find more details about it a blog called The Conservative Treehouse.)

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    • Replies: @Yak-15
    That is interesting and seems somewhat true in the sense that china probably leverages the NK problem to the hilt in negotiations. But I believe NK is strongly in control of its destiny and China's influence is not what it pretends.

    I agree with your solution though. This could be our excuse to shut down China trade and isolate NK.
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  152. @Daniel Chieh
    And at any rate, China doesn't just use Confucianism. Han Fei's "Fa Jia" Legalist thought is never that far from the current government's actual political philosophy, and without Qin Shi Huang there wouldn't be modern China.

    As we seem doomed to suffer Orientals in our midst, may we at least request more like you and less like Yan Shen?

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Coming from you, that's high praise.
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  153. AM says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    No, you need to go back a couple of steps. Civilization came from farmers who settled a territory, either by entry on virgin land or squashing the hunter-gatherers already there. Once you have a territory and can write whatever rules you want for it, you're sovereign. Being sovereign means there's no higher power than you--you're only bound by what you agree to. But since you're sovereign, if you decide it's no longer worth your while to agree, then that's just tough luck for everybody else unless they have a bigger or better military. Then you're no longer sovereign.

    "The Man Who Would Be King" is a great story about one man's attempt to acquire sovereignty.

    Sovereignty is always up for grabs. There's no Super-Duper Court of Sovereignty enforcing a Code of Sovereignty out there.

    Sovereignty is always up for grabs. There’s no Super-Duper Court of Sovereignty enforcing a Code of Sovereignty out there.

    Christians had civilization in the middle east, but they lost sovereignty over the course of hundreds of years. Now it’s hard to locate any Christian communities except in odd pockets.

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  154. @Dahlia
    Sims, the author of this piece:
    https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/None/sims/original.png

    He needs to lay off the booze. Probably should smoke less pot too.

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  155. @Johann Ricke
    Off-topic, but interesting excerpt from WaPo's tut-tut-fest about Trump's speech at the UN on North Korea:

    In the event of war, it is unlikely Chinese troops would fight alongside or on behalf of North Korean soldiers to defend the regime, as they did in the 1950-1953 Korean War, but they could enter the country to secure nuclear weapons sites and prevent U.S. troops from crossing into the North and installing a U.S.-friendly puppet government, some experts say.

    Liu Yang, Luna Lin and Shirley Feng contributed to this report.

     

    The passage could have come verbatim from the People's Daily, whose representatives may have been credited at the bottom of the article. Apart from WaPo parroting Beijing's line (Democracy dies in darkness? Really?) on North Korea, it's interesting that China has more or less admitted that it will annex North Korea in the event of hostilities. Twinkie may have some insight on what the South Korean reaction might be to a Chinese invasion of the north.

    Given my personal experience with the intense nationalism of the average South Korean, albeit of an earlier generation, I expect they'll be crossing the DMZ to take on the Chinese once they cross the Yalu, with or without American support. The wild card is whether North Koreans might actually start fighting the Chinese to get things warmed up.

    Why on earth would China want North Korea? What about it could possibly help enrich their fat rulers?

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    China doesn't, though at this point, it might be nice not to have someone in control who can nuke you. I'm sure they would rather have a "friendly" government, in the same style of US puppet regimes.
    , @Johann Ricke

    Why on earth would China want North Korea? What about it could possibly help enrich their fat rulers?
     
    For the same reason that Mao wanted East Turkistan and Tibet. To enter the history books as something other than a footnote. So Chairman Xi will stand out as the man who added the top half of the Korean peninsula (for the nth time) to China's holdings.

    Napoleon once said - A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon. At the heart of it all is the quest for gloire. In the end, that was also Napoleon's motivation for his campaigns across Europe.
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  156. bartok says:
    @DFH
    Why are the Jews so intent on destroying Russia?

    Why are the Jews so intent on destroying Russia?

    Same reason Islamists look to Spain: it used to belong to them.

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  157. Ben Frank says:

    Boil it down to the essentials. This is a skirmish in the global north-south war.
    Tear down civilization. Turn the US into Brazil or maybe Zimbabwe.
    It’s a death-cult. Leftists want to die and kill you first.

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  158. Gunner says:
    @neutral
    An even more direct and unsubtle Hollywood tackling of Trump is this from Morgan Freeman:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz9PNoecNxU

    This is the brainchild of a neocon gang calling itself "The Committee to Investigate Russia" (serious), with Max Boot being the head of this.

    Anyone want to take a guess how much time Freeman spent worrying about KGB agents and Russian influence before Donald Trump ran for President?

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  159. bomag says:
    @Yan Shen
    As someone who grew up in Texas and learned Texas history, although at this point I remember none of it, I've always been amused by those who lament the burgeoning Hispanic population in the Lone Star State and who decry the illegal immigrants who cross the border from Mexico into Texas as well.

    Not too long ago, white Americans were the original illegal immigrants to the land that currently is Texas and it was the Mexican government that had to crack down against them! Note this doesn't cause me to abandon my American nationalism, but unlike many here I suspect I'm far more empathetic to opposing points of view because I'm fundamentally aware of the contradictions present within the history of my own country.

    As someone who grew up in Texas…

    Really? Then you benefited from the extant Anglo institutions and influence. I suspect you would have had less benefit under Mexican civic sensibilities. Interesting from someone who touts the superiority of today’s East Asian people/culture with the implied notion that they should be allowed to take over and run things. I thought maybe you would tout the superiority of 1848 America and argue for it to properly take over and run its environs.

    …this doesn’t cause me to abandon my American nationalism

    What a troll. I’m guessing your motto is: “To save American nationalism, we have to burn the country.”

    unlike many here I suspect I’m far more empathetic to opposing points of view because I’m fundamentally aware of the contradictions present within the history of my own country

    How nice that you see more and sense more than the rest of us. Can I touch your garment?

    Prominent here is a kind of “autistic legalism” where relations between countries is seen as a type of contract that the Yan Shens and Corvinuses scour for an interpretive violation that would null the agreement and set all back to a pre-contract state with expungement of all intervening activity and treble damages. As noted by other comments, this ignores the different nature of sovereign and civic, and the initial premise that a cooperative agreement is even possible in these cases.

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  160. “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”

    Yeah, look at how badly it all turned out for Frank Sinatra, Dion and the Belmonts, all the Motown acts, all the Stax singers, and the scads of Jewish-American songwriters who wrote songs for them all.

    Beyond that, I come from at Catholic-Italian family and during the ’60s is when everyone started moving to nice houses in the suburbs and sending their kids to college (we have two doctors in the family), and otherwise had a great time.

    These people are rewriting history and I hope the general public realizes that what they’re peddling is a paranoid fantasy.

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    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
    " Frank Sinatra, Dion and the Belmonts"

    Just found a re-issue of Ole Blue Eye's "Songs for swinging lovers" a couple of weeks ago, and it is just great as it was way back then.

    Dion however is my main man. He is without a doubt the "Hippest" vocalist to grace the waxes in the last sixty year. I am a Torme' deciple, and Four Freshman fanatic: "Day by Day" is pure magic.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army Vet, pro Jazz musician and vocalist.

    PS Jewish songwriters : They represent the best we have to offer, to the world of art: GG and IG, Jerome Kern, Styne, Hammerstein, Arlen, and on and on.
    , @S. Anonyia
    These people are confusing the 1860s with the 1960s. One side of my family is Catholic and the other is Protestant. The Catholics were a lot richer in the 1960s, they had maids and nannies, took extravagant trips to 3 continents and were millionaires until globalization ruined their business and they blew through their savings. Protestant side of the family were working in syrup factories and barely scrounging enough to stay above the poverty line. Ethnically my parents aren't that different, Heinz 57 Irish/French/British/German mixes. The Catholics (mostly, other than 1 or 2 lines) got here later though, 1820s-1870s as opposed to early to mid 1700s for the Protestant side.
    , @Brutusale
    Ah, Stax/Volt. THAT was some music! Even the suburban white boys like me were fans.
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  161. @eah
    Could be mistaken for this guy:

    https://vz.cnwimg.com/thumbc-300x300/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Kevin-Farley.jpg

    Is that the guy from the rat dog episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm?

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  162. res says:
    @Ivy
    OT are you following the Giancarlo Stanton home run story? He hit 56th and is closing in on the Maris 61 mark.

    One interesting thing about Stanton is that he seems to have big seasons (2014 and 2107) in the years he gets big contracts.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/stantmi03.shtml

    I wonder if he will beat Maris. I see 13 games and 6 home runs to go with him currently hitting home runs at a 56/149= 0.38 home runs per game pace. So just under 5 more expected.

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  163. Hubbub says:
    @ziel
    “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”

    I can assure Senor Del Toro that the 60's were a pretty great time to be growing up in America if you were a Catholic and, from my observations of my classmates, it was pretty freakin' great if you were Jewish as well.

    "Well I'm so glad I'm livin' in the USA" - Chuck Berry, 1964.

    Now, as an 80-year-old, I can remember the late fifties and early sixties as the last great period of optimism in the United States. A young person of any race or creed felt he could go places, do things, and be ‘Somebody’. The Great Society destroyed that, as all government programs tend to do to anything positive.

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  164. @Pericles
    And perhaps the sea creature turns out to be a handsome, muscular black man?

    Doug Jones is actually a garden variety white guy (and a Christian) and a veteran sea creature – played Abe Sapiens in Del Toro’s Hellboys. Really nice guy.

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  165. res says:
    @Mr. Anon

    It’s a story of empathy triumphing over prejudice, one where the facility’s villainous supervisor (Michael Shannon) is largely driven by hatred of what he doesn’t understand.
     
    Wow! That is so original - hating what you don't understand. That's a new one. Nobody has every made a movie on that theme before. Well it's about time! Because, afterall, you can only hate things you don't understand. That's why the family members of Ted Bundy's victims hated him - because they didn't understand him.

    Maybe, in his next movie, del Toro can tell a story about - now, indulge me here - I know you'll think is crazy - a story about a hardened, cynical prostitute who is actually a kind, caring person. Why, you might even say that she has a "heart of gold". Or maybe he could do a movie about two police officers with radically different styles, forced to work together and who, though they initially don't like each other, eventually grow to have respect and affection for their partner. Or maybe a story about a "lone-wolf" cop, who bucks the system and plays by his own rules.

    These are the kind of original, avant-guarde narratives I would expect from an auteur of del Toro's immense talent.

    To paraphrase Theo the Krauts' coinage:

    #hacktivist

    To paraphrase Theo the Krauts’ coinage:

    #hacktivist

    Not only does Mr. Anon identify good memes (#whacktivist) he extends them. May I propose #cracktivist for when we discover an appropriate specimen? How about #gobacktivist? Or #slacktivist?

    Oops, that last one is already well known (and pretty funny): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slacktivism

    Hactivist has a current but different meaning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacktivism
    Whacktivist has a current similar meaning: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Whacktivist

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    May I propose #cracktivist for when we discover an appropriate specimen?
     
    Already found:

    Aaron Sorkin: I was a 'Crack' Screenwriter
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  166. res says:
    @Senator Brundlefly
    "Only if they are willing to restore sovereignty to the various Amerind tribes who lived in California, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and Nevada before the Spaniards intruded…."

    And really, the so-called "Natives" should give it back to the people here before the Clovis....Or maybe all the megafauna they wiped out...And really, Homo sapiens should cede Europe back to cloned Neanderthals....Or really, we mammals should give the world back to birds as dinosaurs were here longer than us... Or maybe sharks.... Or, you know what, it really was unfair how photosynthetic lifeforms started spewing poisonous oxygen that wiped out so many anaerobic microbes...And heck, once that bastard DNA took off, poor self-replicating ribozymes didn't have a chance. That's it. Once we're back to the RNA world, everyone's sins can be forgiven.

    But the land masses have also come and gone (to some extent). Does the first inhabitant after the land appeared above sea level get title in perpetuity? Or do volcanic eruptions completely remaking the landscape cause a reset? Or …?

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  167. … When discussing The Shape of Water, del Toro (who is Mexican) has been equally upfront about how its sea creature is a stand-in for “the other,” or the outsider, in any kind of political situation.

    That strikes me as funny, because in the seemingly quite unlikely contingency I’m ever in charge of a secret government lab that contains a mysterious aquatic being, I’m going to order it dissected quicker than you can trigger an Education major. Socio-political allegories aside, my mama didn’t raise no fool; I’ve read my Lovecraft. You may want to be careful, before embracing non-Human entities by simple virtue of their being “the Other“.

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  168. res says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    Frankly, he's not very Chinese at all. I seriously wonder if he's just a troll, there's a lot of weird gaps in his understanding.

    He has been around the internet with the same shtick for years. Does not exclude the possibility of his being a troll, but makes it less likely IMHO. Is being raised in the US from a young age enough to explain what you are seeing?

    It seems to be a trend for US raised (either child immigrant or second generation) ethnics to get a tragic mix of excessive nationalism with a deficit in the virtues of the original cultures. By no means everyone, but enough to be a problem.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Must be an excessive dose of clever silly genes combined with lack of actual knowledge.

    I'm born in the US, but I travelled and read widely. I was homeschooled, though, and had a pretty extensive interest in Western history - indeed, it always surprises me that anyone /wouldn't/ be. That the general population has gotten so enormously disconnected from their pasts greatly disturbs me.

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  169. @StillCARealist
    Why on earth would China want North Korea? What about it could possibly help enrich their fat rulers?

    China doesn’t, though at this point, it might be nice not to have someone in control who can nuke you. I’m sure they would rather have a “friendly” government, in the same style of US puppet regimes.

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  170. @res
    He has been around the internet with the same shtick for years. Does not exclude the possibility of his being a troll, but makes it less likely IMHO. Is being raised in the US from a young age enough to explain what you are seeing?

    It seems to be a trend for US raised (either child immigrant or second generation) ethnics to get a tragic mix of excessive nationalism with a deficit in the virtues of the original cultures. By no means everyone, but enough to be a problem.

    Must be an excessive dose of clever silly genes combined with lack of actual knowledge.

    I’m born in the US, but I travelled and read widely. I was homeschooled, though, and had a pretty extensive interest in Western history – indeed, it always surprises me that anyone /wouldn’t/ be. That the general population has gotten so enormously disconnected from their pasts greatly disturbs me.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    We've just been through our own Late Ming period. It's a sort of cultural alzheimers.

    Remains to be seen if we can recover. Encouraging signs locally.
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  171. @Autochthon
    As we seem doomed to suffer Orientals in our midst, may we at least request more like you and less like Yan Shen?

    Coming from you, that’s high praise.

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  172. syonredux says:
    @Father O'Hara
    "Some call me one thing,some another."
    "Whatta they call ya most?"
    "Valance. Cherry Valance."
    "There are only two things more beautiful than a good gun. A Swiss watch or a woman from anywhere."
    I don't know if that last item would meet the approval of WNs.
    "A Swiss watch or a non obese white woman..."
    "I'm gonna kill ya,Matt."
    John Wayne was the best. He preferred Latinas,too. Wait,was that good...or bad?

    John Wayne was the best. He preferred Latinas,too. Wait,was that good…or bad?

    Wayne’s Hispanic wives were Conquistador-class:

    Josephine S. Wayne (born Josephine Alicia Saenz; May 13, 1908 – June 24, 2003) was the first wife of American film actor John Wayne. She had four children including film producer Michael Wayne and actor Patrick Wayne.

    Josephine Alicia “Josie” Saenz was born May 13, 1908 to the Consul General of Panama in the United States,[1] José Saenz, a wealthy businessman who lived in Los Angeles, California.[2] Her parents were born in Madrid, Spain.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephine_Wayne

    Esperanza Baur

    https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=96406604

    Pilar Pallete

    Pallete was born as the daughter of a Peruvian senator in the Paita Port (northern Peru). She married and divorced professional big-game hunter Richard Weldy.[1]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilar_Pallete

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  173. @StillCARealist
    Why on earth would China want North Korea? What about it could possibly help enrich their fat rulers?

    Why on earth would China want North Korea? What about it could possibly help enrich their fat rulers?

    For the same reason that Mao wanted East Turkistan and Tibet. To enter the history books as something other than a footnote. So Chairman Xi will stand out as the man who added the top half of the Korean peninsula (for the nth time) to China’s holdings.

    Napoleon once said – A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon. At the heart of it all is the quest for gloire. In the end, that was also Napoleon’s motivation for his campaigns across Europe.

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  174. @Days of Broken Arrows
    “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”

    Yeah, look at how badly it all turned out for Frank Sinatra, Dion and the Belmonts, all the Motown acts, all the Stax singers, and the scads of Jewish-American songwriters who wrote songs for them all.

    Beyond that, I come from at Catholic-Italian family and during the '60s is when everyone started moving to nice houses in the suburbs and sending their kids to college (we have two doctors in the family), and otherwise had a great time.

    These people are rewriting history and I hope the general public realizes that what they're peddling is a paranoid fantasy.

    ” Frank Sinatra, Dion and the Belmonts”

    Just found a re-issue of Ole Blue Eye’s “Songs for swinging lovers” a couple of weeks ago, and it is just great as it was way back then.

    Dion however is my main man. He is without a doubt the “Hippest” vocalist to grace the waxes in the last sixty year. I am a Torme’ deciple, and Four Freshman fanatic: “Day by Day” is pure magic.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army Vet, pro Jazz musician and vocalist.

    PS Jewish songwriters : They represent the best we have to offer, to the world of art: GG and IG, Jerome Kern, Styne, Hammerstein, Arlen, and on and on.

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  175. @Days of Broken Arrows
    “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”

    Yeah, look at how badly it all turned out for Frank Sinatra, Dion and the Belmonts, all the Motown acts, all the Stax singers, and the scads of Jewish-American songwriters who wrote songs for them all.

    Beyond that, I come from at Catholic-Italian family and during the '60s is when everyone started moving to nice houses in the suburbs and sending their kids to college (we have two doctors in the family), and otherwise had a great time.

    These people are rewriting history and I hope the general public realizes that what they're peddling is a paranoid fantasy.

    These people are confusing the 1860s with the 1960s. One side of my family is Catholic and the other is Protestant. The Catholics were a lot richer in the 1960s, they had maids and nannies, took extravagant trips to 3 continents and were millionaires until globalization ruined their business and they blew through their savings. Protestant side of the family were working in syrup factories and barely scrounging enough to stay above the poverty line. Ethnically my parents aren’t that different, Heinz 57 Irish/French/British/German mixes. The Catholics (mostly, other than 1 or 2 lines) got here later though, 1820s-1870s as opposed to early to mid 1700s for the Protestant side.

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  176. Kylie says:
    @TheBoom
    The glass ceiling was so low then for Catholics. Probably the highest they could strive for in entertainment was only to be like Sinatra

    Or Spencer Tracy.

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  177. @Daniel Chieh
    Must be an excessive dose of clever silly genes combined with lack of actual knowledge.

    I'm born in the US, but I travelled and read widely. I was homeschooled, though, and had a pretty extensive interest in Western history - indeed, it always surprises me that anyone /wouldn't/ be. That the general population has gotten so enormously disconnected from their pasts greatly disturbs me.

    We’ve just been through our own Late Ming period. It’s a sort of cultural alzheimers.

    Remains to be seen if we can recover. Encouraging signs locally.

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  178. @anonymous
    “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”-Guillermo del Toro a/k/a "Bill the Bull".

    How would Bill the Bull know? He was a year old circa 1965 and living in Mejico! Wonder how many of the so-called "oppressed" would really think of themselves as oppressed absent the likes of Bill the Bull? Or Official MacArthur Foundation Genius T-N Coates for that matter?

    The trick is not to just to try and destroy WASP history, but to co-opt it. It is not enough to say that 90% white America defeated the Germans or Japanese but to say that it was really Afro-Americans and Latinos who won the war. They just did not get credit due to racism. Ditto for Confederate war statues. In its place we will have statues of all the black Union soldiers (or civil rights leaders) who single handedly defeated the racist south. America put a man on the moon; not white Americans, etc.

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  179. dwb says:
    @Yan Shen
    Sightly off topic but related to Mexico.

    Steve, any thoughts about the legitimacy of the United States annexing the Republic of Texas back in the day and ultimately gaining all of the territories ceded by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo at the conclusion of the Mexican American War? I'm not much of a historian, but my basic understanding as a Texan is that uh basically after Stephen F. Austin settled Texas with 300 families with the permission of the Mexican government, a steady stream of American immigrants migrated to the territory and soon outnumbered the native Spanish speakers, at which point the rest is history.

    Not that this would ever happen, but do you think there's any validity to the Reconquista sentiments endorsed by some far left Hispanic activists? As an American who believes strongly in nationalism and what you might describe as citizenism, sometimes I find myself at odds with the history of my country.

    It's always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    Not going to go for the facile and silly “go back to China” retort. You state that you’re an American, which is good enough for me, and the fact that you have a Chinese name does not require that you defend what China has or has not done. The history of China is irrelevant, and if it were, you are hardly responsible for whatever transgressions are alleged.

    So let’s try to stick to the point.

    I am not entirely familiar with the history of Texas, but needless to say, much of the land of the southwest of the US was acquired under processes that today would be called “irregular.”

    As others have said, if we want to apply standards of the past to behaviour of the current era, there is practically no country that can stand without hypocrisy and defend the legitimacy of its sovereignty. The US is not different.

    As to the “legitimacy” of the annexation of Texas, or of the Mexican War, or the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, in essence, you’ve hit the nail squarely that “might makes right.” Or, as others say, the history book is written by the victors. The 1840s were a different time, and the actions that the US took were entirely within the “normal” parameters, and were unremarkable, of the era. They wouldn’t fly today.

    Not really sure the point, however. IF the US were to decide that it had “stolen” lands, whom would they give back to? Mexico itself was a new nation that had taken its independence from Spain not long earlier, had dealt with instability, and whose claims to the territories beyond what is central Mexico today were shaky. And top it off, the Spanish themselves had made what became Mexico by invasion and conquering tribes who themselves had fought over land.

    This is not to excuse the pretty naked way that Texas and the West were obtained, but rather than context is important, and that we live in a different era.

    That said, while I understand the allegations of the so-called “reconquista,” I don’t have empathy for them, because we KNOW how the settling of Texas by Anglos worked out for Mexico.

    Some of the “alt right” are under fire now for claiming that they are being “replaced” through immigration. If one picks up any respectable newspaper, the idea that there is demographic replacement going on is mocked as the fevered thinking of neo-Nazis.

    Perhaps it is these folks who ought to be talking about empathy with the ‘reconquista,’ if it’s a real thing.

    If it IS a real thing – if the goal of Latino activists is to settle in the US west until they reach sufficient numbers that they can agitate for a sort of “New New Mexico,” then why would Americans, who now have the benefit of historical perspective, NOT stand in opposition. We saw how it worked out for the Native Americans (hint: not too well). We saw the result for Mexico.

    We would be stupid not to oppose.

    And FWIW, there is a fundamental difference – the goal of the Californios who raised the Bear Flag over San Jose was to turn California into an American state. Do you – or anyone else – actually think that the people who are pouring in to Texas and California really want to make them into Mexico? With the crime, corruption, and public infrastructure that currently exists in Mexico?

    It’s simple, isn’t it? Those Americans who settled in Texas wanted to make an otherwise pretty empty frontier area into something just like back home. Los Angeles is an established city, not a frontier, with millions of people living in it. It has roads, schools, cultural amenities (such as they are in Southern California). Mexicans settling in California today want to get away from Mexico as quickly as they can.

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  180. Thea says:

    The grievance industry appears to be a perpetual motion machine. I just don’t see how society will ever be sane again

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  181. jon says:

    Del Toro may look like a Hobbit

    Your post prompted me to do a search on his ethnicity/appearance, and I came across this site on Del Toro: http://muzul.com/beauty/guillermo-del-toro/

    It lists him as 5’11, 200 lbs and body type ‘thin.’ I bet no one was more surprised than Del Toro himself about those stats. And despite having blue eyes and ‘Type II: Fair Skin,’ apparently “[l]adies love him for his cheekbones.” Those must be from all that Amerindian blood coursing through his veins.

    In related news, ginger comedian Louis C.K. likes talking about his Mexican heritage: http://latinrapper.com/blogs/?p=437

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  182. @The Anti-Gnostic
    No, you need to go back a couple of steps. Civilization came from farmers who settled a territory, either by entry on virgin land or squashing the hunter-gatherers already there. Once you have a territory and can write whatever rules you want for it, you're sovereign. Being sovereign means there's no higher power than you--you're only bound by what you agree to. But since you're sovereign, if you decide it's no longer worth your while to agree, then that's just tough luck for everybody else unless they have a bigger or better military. Then you're no longer sovereign.

    "The Man Who Would Be King" is a great story about one man's attempt to acquire sovereignty.

    Sovereignty is always up for grabs. There's no Super-Duper Court of Sovereignty enforcing a Code of Sovereignty out there.

    Of course.

    And the West has been sovereign until recently due to their unrivaled dominance (archy) predicated upon their superior civilization.

    This is why those seeking to usurp that sovereignty have focused on destroying Western understanding of/appreciation for its civilization. With great effect.

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  183. Vinteuil says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    If you have the appropriate amounts of the XY chromosome, you might note that an important difference involving blood and iron. Implicitly, we all understand the right of conquest and its only the perpetual losers who will be trapped in whining about it. I suggest visiting the ruins of the Summer Palace in Beijing and reflect that despite everything, note how the Chinese blame the West much less than they blame themselves.

    There's a reason, and its an important point from a Confucian perspective of practicality. Incidentally, he would also probably suggest that you try to remember the history before you offer opinions on it.

    "Those who are born with the possession of knowledge are the highest class of men. Those who learn, and so readily get possession of knowledge, are the next. Those who are dull and stupid, and yet compass the learning are another class next to these. As to those who are dull and stupid and yet do not learn--they are the lowest of the people."

    “Those who are born with the possession of knowledge are the highest class of men. Those who learn, and so readily get possession of knowledge, are the next. Those who are dull and stupid, and yet compass the learning are another class next to these. As to those who are dull and stupid and yet do not learn–they are the lowest of the people.”

    Interesting quote – is this Confucius himself? is this from the Analects? Can you give me a reference?

    I’d like to compare & contrast this with what Plato, in the Republic, and Aristotle, in the Nicomachean Ethics, have to say about these interesting questions. (I’m right now in the middle of teaching a course on Ethical Theory).

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    Glad you found it interesting.

    Its Chapter 9, Book 16 of the Analects: "Four classes of men in relation to knowledge."
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  184. BB753 says:
    @Autochthon
    Wait, so the Proxy for Dr. Van Helsing is, what, ninety? One hundred? Is he himself a vampire? If not, how is he still spry enough to be chasing them around New York in 2017 if he was also in a concentration camp c. 1940? At best let's say he was a babe in the camp: he is still a good sixty-seven years old. (And if this is the gimmick, are the flashbacks about him breastfeeding and pooping his diapers?)

    Nevermind; I've a more meaningful question: Why are you all still consuming (and thereby subsidising) this garbage? You want to read about vampires? Stoker and Rice (and countless in between) have written excellent novels exploring the idea. Hammer Studios made some excellent films about vampires starring brilliant actors such as Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee. Gather some friends for a game of Dungeons & Dragons and do battle with the undead. I could write constructive, fun, healthy ways to enjoy vampires and related imaginative, legendary things all day, not one of them involving sending money to this fat, Mexican bastard who clearly holds most anyone who would be interested in Steve's work in contempt.

    I imagine a man who's wife shamelessly takes lovers. Half the time when he returns home from work there she is, in bed naked – nay, in the very throes of the act itself! – with the milkman, the postman, the pool-boy, the gardener, the neighbor, the pastor, a midget and two goats.... Each time our hero clucks his tongue most disapprovingly, then takes a seat to watch the interlopers finish the deed, after which he launders the bedding, cooks everyone a meal, and writes more checks for the mortgage on the house his wife inhabits, the groceries she consumes, and so forth. He's positively appalled, of course, by her deplorable behaviour and the way she carries on with it to his detriment.

    The Jewish Van Helsing character is almost 100 years but is kept younger by taking some sort of vampire serum.
    And yes, I’ve watched a good deal of the old Hammer Studios Dracula classics. And I read the book by Bram Stoker when I was 15 or so. . So what?

    Frankly, I’m not interested in del Toro’s marital life, if that’s what you were describing.

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  185. @Vinteuil
    “Those who are born with the possession of knowledge are the highest class of men. Those who learn, and so readily get possession of knowledge, are the next. Those who are dull and stupid, and yet compass the learning are another class next to these. As to those who are dull and stupid and yet do not learn–they are the lowest of the people.”

    Interesting quote - is this Confucius himself? is this from the Analects? Can you give me a reference?

    I'd like to compare & contrast this with what Plato, in the Republic, and Aristotle, in the Nicomachean Ethics, have to say about these interesting questions. (I'm right now in the middle of teaching a course on Ethical Theory).

    Glad you found it interesting.

    Its Chapter 9, Book 16 of the Analects: “Four classes of men in relation to knowledge.”

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  186. @Wilkey
    Conquistador Mexicans have developed a neat trick where they ignore their own ancestors treatment of Mestizos and Amerindians in Mexico by harping on what Anglo-Celtic Americans have done in America.

    Basically if you are white you are guilty for anything and everything every other white person has done for all of history, even if your particular ancestors fought against those evils. I get no credit for my white ancestors who fought for the Union, and Brits get no credit for standing alone against the Axis for 18 months.

    If you're a person of color (which used here includes Jews and mostly/entirely white "Hispanics") you aren't guilty of crimes being committed by your own people right this very minute. I am guilty of lynchings that happened a century ago, but del Toro is innocent of all the murders happening in Mexico and Central America this very minute. He is innocent of the Inquisition (but I am not). He is innocent of the mass slaughter his ancestors engaged in while conquering the Americas.

    I know exactly where you are coming from. I’m a Slav. Slavs fought against Mongol and Turk invasions and occupations for almost 1000 years. The Turks enslaved millions of Slavs and extracted “blood tax” from them. (Look it up, it was a doozy.) The Nazis considered Slavs subhumans, and by 1945 practically all Slav people were fighting against the Nazis. (Maybe except for the Croats.)
    The Slavs had zero participation in the African slave trade, until recently most Slavs had never seen a black person except on television.
    Colonized nobody expect perhaps for the Chukchi.

    And yet Slavs are tagged as “white/Caucasians” and given all the baggage that goes with that.

    I’m considering participating in what Steve calls the “flight from white”. “White” is now almost an ethnic slur. To hell with it; I’m Slav not white – we beat the Nazis and did neither colonialism nor slavery.

    In the same vein, I think many Americans can say things like: “I am Norwegian not white; we fought the Nazis and did neither colonialism nor slavery.” Or “I am Irish not white; we suffered savage repression under the British and did neither colonialism nor slavery.” Etc etc.

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    To hell with it; I’m Slav not white – we beat the Nazis and did neither colonialism nor slavery.
     
    How exactly did Russia end up with Siberia, the Caucasus, and a big chunk of central asia? Did they win it in a raffle?
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  187. @Tex
    What does every hard-core, willing-to-kill-for-the-cause (dying is optional), Palestinian nationalist want? To move to America!

    A couple of years ago, I looked out the window onto Madison & Clinton downtown Chicago and a big mob of these people had shut down Madison Street protesting the Israelis; only then did I realize just how many Muslims Bush and Obama have let into America.

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  188. @Yan Shen
    Sightly off topic but related to Mexico.

    Steve, any thoughts about the legitimacy of the United States annexing the Republic of Texas back in the day and ultimately gaining all of the territories ceded by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo at the conclusion of the Mexican American War? I'm not much of a historian, but my basic understanding as a Texan is that uh basically after Stephen F. Austin settled Texas with 300 families with the permission of the Mexican government, a steady stream of American immigrants migrated to the territory and soon outnumbered the native Spanish speakers, at which point the rest is history.

    Not that this would ever happen, but do you think there's any validity to the Reconquista sentiments endorsed by some far left Hispanic activists? As an American who believes strongly in nationalism and what you might describe as citizenism, sometimes I find myself at odds with the history of my country.

    It's always a little hypocritical preaching about respecting national sovereignty and the self determination of peoples when this entire nation was formed by those who embraced the exact opposite, no? Or at the end of the day does might equal right and is that the only morality this world abides by?

    I agree with commenter dwb that the fact that Texas was a frontier and the modern southwest is fully-formed is significant. However, there are also other historical circumstances that make Texas a bad example for your hypocrisy thesis. Ownership of the territory that is Texas went back and forth between France, Spain, Mexico, the Republic of Texas and the U.S. independent of the people living on the land. Some U.S. settlers claimed the territory was included in the Louisiana purchase, which is not completely unreasonable, and, importantly, Mexico allowed immigration from the U.S. prior to the Texan revolt.

    However, setting aside the issue of Texas per se, you fail to distinguish between state actors and individuals, between calls for free migration and claims of ownership, and between advocacy of the past and acceptance of the past. All of these things erode your “hypocrisy”, not to mention the fact that Steve’s Citizenism is a call for states to act in the interest of their current citizens, which is not incompatible with taking territory from other states while defending your own.

    I’d guess your hand-waving “everyone is a hypocrite” perspective is a sign your thinking is subverted by post-modern perspectives, which probably turns your Confucianism to shit.

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  189. Malcolm Y says:

    Del Toro (may be significant “of the bull”) was in a documentary of H P Lovecraft dispensing snark e.g. “he didn’t get laid much.” But if His Pudginess del Toro had to rely on manliness he wouldn’t either. Grudgingly he did pay Lovecraft some (left handed) compliments.

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    On the positive side, Del Toro does own a pretty nice statue of Lovecraft


    http://stmedia.startribune.com/images/1488556621_01003252136+4DELTORO030517+6557.JPG
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  190. Mr. Anon says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    Peter Jackson used to be fat. He slimmed down years ago and seems to have kept the weight off, if this picture is recent.

    Peter Jackson used to be fat. He slimmed down years ago and seems to have kept the weight off, if this picture is recent.

    Now, only his movies are fat. But he seems incapable of slimming those down.

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  191. Mr. Anon says:
    @jimbojones
    I know exactly where you are coming from. I'm a Slav. Slavs fought against Mongol and Turk invasions and occupations for almost 1000 years. The Turks enslaved millions of Slavs and extracted "blood tax" from them. (Look it up, it was a doozy.) The Nazis considered Slavs subhumans, and by 1945 practically all Slav people were fighting against the Nazis. (Maybe except for the Croats.)
    The Slavs had zero participation in the African slave trade, until recently most Slavs had never seen a black person except on television.
    Colonized nobody expect perhaps for the Chukchi.

    And yet Slavs are tagged as "white/Caucasians" and given all the baggage that goes with that.

    I'm considering participating in what Steve calls the "flight from white". "White" is now almost an ethnic slur. To hell with it; I'm Slav not white - we beat the Nazis and did neither colonialism nor slavery.

    In the same vein, I think many Americans can say things like: "I am Norwegian not white; we fought the Nazis and did neither colonialism nor slavery." Or "I am Irish not white; we suffered savage repression under the British and did neither colonialism nor slavery." Etc etc.

    To hell with it; I’m Slav not white – we beat the Nazis and did neither colonialism nor slavery.

    How exactly did Russia end up with Siberia, the Caucasus, and a big chunk of central asia? Did they win it in a raffle?

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  192. Mr. Anon says:
    @res

    To paraphrase Theo the Krauts’ coinage:

    #hacktivist
     

    Not only does Mr. Anon identify good memes (#whacktivist) he extends them. May I propose #cracktivist for when we discover an appropriate specimen? How about #gobacktivist? Or #slacktivist?

    Oops, that last one is already well known (and pretty funny): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slacktivism

    Hactivist has a current but different meaning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacktivism
    Whacktivist has a current similar meaning: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Whacktivist

    May I propose #cracktivist for when we discover an appropriate specimen?

    Already found:

    Aaron Sorkin: I was a ‘Crack’ Screenwriter

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  193. syonredux says:
    @Malcolm Y
    Del Toro (may be significant "of the bull") was in a documentary of H P Lovecraft dispensing snark e.g. "he didn't get laid much." But if His Pudginess del Toro had to rely on manliness he wouldn't either. Grudgingly he did pay Lovecraft some (left handed) compliments.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg9VCf5einY

    On the positive side, Del Toro does own a pretty nice statue of Lovecraft

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  194. Yak-15 says:
    @AM

    It is speculated that the North Koreans nukes are mainly a hedge against Chinese invasion.
     
    Another theory that makes more sense to me is that the Chinese use the threat of North Korean nukes to get economic leverage with the West.

    Basically, we concede to completely unfair economic terms and they agree to deal with the North Korea problem which mysteriously never gets solved. Rinse and repeat every single time a "crisis" happens.

    The reality is North Korea is a protectorate of China right now, albeit unofficial. Without China, the whole country would collapse probably with a very short time span.

    That's why bring back jobs to the US and the North Korea Rocket Man problem are intertwined. If that theory is true, Trump has just turned China's leverage on it's head and said, we're taking everything back until you solve this permanently. We have that leverage, we've just never had the guts to go down that road.

    Either way we win: problem solved and we have more freedom to negotiate fairer deals with China or it's not solved and China gets hoist on it's own petard and we get as many jobs as possible back. Works for me.

    (Just as PS -this is not my theory - you can find more details about it a blog called The Conservative Treehouse.)

    That is interesting and seems somewhat true in the sense that china probably leverages the NK problem to the hilt in negotiations. But I believe NK is strongly in control of its destiny and China’s influence is not what it pretends.

    I agree with your solution though. This could be our excuse to shut down China trade and isolate NK.

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  195. @inertial

    The Shape of Water is a romantic, grown-up fairytale, where a mute woman (Sally Hawkins) working at a secret government facility in 1962 falls in love with a sea creature (Doug Jones) that’s being held there against its will. It’s a story of empathy triumphing over prejudice, one where the facility’s villainous supervisor (Michael Shannon) is largely driven by hatred of what he doesn’t understand.
     
    Wow, what an original concept! I hadn't seen a movie like that in over five minutes. Does it have villagers with torches and pitchforks who are storming the secret government facility so that they kill the creature?

    I have a slightly different idea for a movie. There is a sea creature at a not so secret government facility. It's not held against its will but lives there because they feed it. The creature acts truculent and says that it wants to kill people. Other parties, including foreign governments, warn that the creature is extremely dangerous. A nice, white, and definitely non-mute lady falls in love with the creature, or perhaps just adopts it as a pet. She convinces it to move to Boston, or perhaps Florida. The creature doesn't like the food in the new place, so it grows unhappier by the day. It becomes violent but everyone ignores that because they are afraid they'd be called speciesist. Finally, the creature makes a bomb and blows up bystanders at a marathon. Or perhaps it goes to a gay nightclub and shoots dozens of patrons. Flies a plane into a building? Well, we can always hire a script doctor to help us with this part.

    Last scene of the movie: A hundred more of similar sea creatures arrive at the facility. The nice white lady jumps into the aquarium and embraces them all.

    Outstanding!

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  196. Brutusale says:
    @inertial

    The Shape of Water is a romantic, grown-up fairytale, where a mute woman (Sally Hawkins) working at a secret government facility in 1962 falls in love with a sea creature (Doug Jones) that’s being held there against its will. It’s a story of empathy triumphing over prejudice, one where the facility’s villainous supervisor (Michael Shannon) is largely driven by hatred of what he doesn’t understand.
     
    Wow, what an original concept! I hadn't seen a movie like that in over five minutes. Does it have villagers with torches and pitchforks who are storming the secret government facility so that they kill the creature?

    I have a slightly different idea for a movie. There is a sea creature at a not so secret government facility. It's not held against its will but lives there because they feed it. The creature acts truculent and says that it wants to kill people. Other parties, including foreign governments, warn that the creature is extremely dangerous. A nice, white, and definitely non-mute lady falls in love with the creature, or perhaps just adopts it as a pet. She convinces it to move to Boston, or perhaps Florida. The creature doesn't like the food in the new place, so it grows unhappier by the day. It becomes violent but everyone ignores that because they are afraid they'd be called speciesist. Finally, the creature makes a bomb and blows up bystanders at a marathon. Or perhaps it goes to a gay nightclub and shoots dozens of patrons. Flies a plane into a building? Well, we can always hire a script doctor to help us with this part.

    Last scene of the movie: A hundred more of similar sea creatures arrive at the facility. The nice white lady jumps into the aquarium and embraces them all.

    Last scene of the movie: A hundred more of similar sea creatures arrive at the facility. The nice white lady jumps into the aquarium and embraces them all.

    In the hard R version of the film, the last scene is the nice white lady being gang raped by the sea creatures after she jumps into the aquarium.

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  197. Ragno says:

    As I practically grew up inhaling the great monster & horror films, I remember being pretty psyched to see PAN’S LABYRINTH by this up-and-coming modern master, del Toro.

    Well; I’m a soft touch, given to grading on a curve if one’s intentions are good, but I had no choice but to walk out of that piece of shit. Since I wasn’t born yesterday, I knew better than to expect nuanced treatment of the Spanish Civil War, but I was completely unprepared for the ham-fisted two-minutes-hate we were served up every time a Falangist showed up on screen. (A generation earlier, audiences were prompted to sympathize with the monsters due to their moments of humanity; here, we were arm-twisted into picking the Only Possible Side due to the demonic inhumanity (or craven cowardice) of every nationalist character.; so much so that the Monster became the good guy by default.)

    I suppose I was more shocked and disappointed than I might have been by the uniformity of the rave reviews. America’s movie critics were so unanimous in their unfettered praise, the last thing you could have possibly expected entering the theater was the kind of bullying agitprop even Frank Capra would’ve kiboshed for WHY WE FIGHT as too obvious and heavy-handed for even the most partisan of audiences.

    I stopped believing in “modern masters” (at least of cinema) around that time. More to the point, I stopped paying attention to film critics entirely.

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  198. @Authenticjazzman
    Right you are, and there was a pulsing Jazz scene at that time. Everybody Miles, Trane, Diz, every big name in Jazz was present.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" qualified since 1973, airborne trained us army Vet, and pro Jazz artist.

    PS Oh yeah almost forgot : I was born in Highland Park, grew up in the at that time, serene Rouge Park area.

    Coleman Young’s autobiography is very interesting on this. The Bottom was the most vibrant part of the city, black and next to downtown. What’d they do? Built a freeway right through the middle of it.

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    My departed dear Mother, the most kind-hearted, virtuous, altruistic person to have ever walked this insane planet, she detested racism,and the only time in my childhood that she ever spanked me was when I, as a ten year old, just happened to, not really knowing what it meant, just happened to spit out the "N" word.

    However she detested C Young, said he was the driving force behind the destruction of the once beautiful, peaceful and creative beyond anyplace else in the US, city of Detroit Michigan.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army Vet, and pro jazz musician.

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  199. Brutusale says:
    @Days of Broken Arrows
    “If you were white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, it was a great time to be alive,” del Toro said of that decade. “If you were not, if you were anything else, it was not.”

    Yeah, look at how badly it all turned out for Frank Sinatra, Dion and the Belmonts, all the Motown acts, all the Stax singers, and the scads of Jewish-American songwriters who wrote songs for them all.

    Beyond that, I come from at Catholic-Italian family and during the '60s is when everyone started moving to nice houses in the suburbs and sending their kids to college (we have two doctors in the family), and otherwise had a great time.

    These people are rewriting history and I hope the general public realizes that what they're peddling is a paranoid fantasy.

    Ah, Stax/Volt. THAT was some music! Even the suburban white boys like me were fans.

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  200. Theodore says:

    Weirdly enough, black boomers live on the street I grew up on. Go figure. Nice people.

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  201. @daniel le mouche
    Coleman Young's autobiography is very interesting on this. The Bottom was the most vibrant part of the city, black and next to downtown. What'd they do? Built a freeway right through the middle of it.

    My departed dear Mother, the most kind-hearted, virtuous, altruistic person to have ever walked this insane planet, she detested racism,and the only time in my childhood that she ever spanked me was when I, as a ten year old, just happened to, not really knowing what it meant, just happened to spit out the “N” word.

    However she detested C Young, said he was the driving force behind the destruction of the once beautiful, peaceful and creative beyond anyplace else in the US, city of Detroit Michigan.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army Vet, and pro jazz musician.

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  202. “Nobody hates Mexicans more than Mexicans…. They want to love their Indo mothers but are ashamed and they want to hate their white fathers but that is who they want to be most.

    Cantinflas always wished he could grow a mustache.”

    Mexicans in America adore themselves when it’s time to cash in their Diversity pokémon points.

    I notice Mex men strongly prefer White women and Mex women weakly prefer White men. End the perpetual Mexican immivasion, and you’d see Mexicans get paler with each generation.

    Montezuma and most Mexicans of his time believed that white men with beards, the “Teules,” would come from the direction of the rising sun to rule over them, so it’s only fitting that Mexicans wish they could grow facial hair, but most can’t…. well, except the women.

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