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The Amazingly Horrible Test Scores of Students in Puerto Rico
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Paul Krugman argues today that Puerto Rico is kind of like West Virginia, Mississippi, and Alabama:

Put it this way: if a region of the United States turns out to be a relatively bad location for production, we don’t expect the population to maintain itself by competing via ultra-low wages; we expect working-age residents to leave for more favorable places. That’s what you see in poor mainland states like West Virginia, which actually looks a fair bit like Puerto Rico in terms of low labor force participation, albeit not quite so much so. (Mississippi and Alabama also have low participation.) … There is much discussion of what’s wrong with Puerto Rico, but maybe we should, at least some of the time, just think of Puerto Rico as an ordinary region of the U.S. …

Okay, but there’s a huge difference in test scores.

The federal government has been administering a special Puerto Rico-customized version of its National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) exam in Spanish to Puerto Rican public school students, and the results have been jaw-droppingly bad.

For example, among Puerto Rican 8th graders tested in mathematics in 2013, 95% scored Below Basic, 5% scored Basic, and (to the limits of rounding) 0% scored Proficient, and 0% scored Advanced. These results were the same in 2011.

In contrast, among American public school students poor enough to be eligible for subsidized school lunches (“NSLP” in the graph above), only 39% scored Below Basic, 41% scored Basic, 17% scored Proficient, and 3% scored Advanced.

Puerto Rico’s test scores are just shamefully low, suggesting that Puerto Rican schools are completely dropping the ball. By way of contrast, in the U.S., among black 8th graders, 38% score Basic, 13% score Proficient, and 2% score Advanced. In the U.S. among Hispanic 8th graders, 41% reach Basic, 18% Proficient, and 3% Advanced.

In Krugman’s bete noire of West Virginia, 42% are Basic, 20% are Proficient, and 3% are Advanced. In Mississippi, 40% are Basic, 18% Proficient, and 3% are Advanced. In Alabama, 40% are Basic, 16% are Proficient, and 3% are Advanced. (Unmentioned by Krugman, the lowest scores among public school students are in liberal Washington D.C.: 35% Basic, 15% Proficient, and 4% Advanced.)

Let me repeat, in Puerto Rico in Spanish, 5% are Basic, and zero zip zilch are Proficient, much less Advanced.

Am I misinterpreting something? I thought I must be, but here’s a press release from the Feds confirming what I just said:

The 2013 Spanish-language mathematics assessment marks the first time that Puerto Rico has been able to use NAEP results to establish a valid comparison to the last assessment in 2011. Prior to 2011, the assessment was carefully redesigned to ensure an accurate assessment of students in Puerto Rico. Results from assessments in Puerto Rico in 2003, 2005 and 2007 cannot be compared, in part because of the larger-than-expected number of questions that students either didn’t answer or answered incorrectly, making it difficult to precisely measure student knowledge and skills. The National Center for Education Statistics, which conducts NAEP, administered the NAEP mathematics assessment in 2011. But those results have not been available until now, as it was necessary to replicate the assessment in 2013 to ensure that valid comparisons could be made.

“The ability to accurately measure student performance is essential for improving education,” said Terry Mazany, chairman of the National Assessment Governing Board, which oversees NAEP. “With the support and encouragement of education officials in Puerto Rico, this assessment achieves that goal. This is a great accomplishment and an important step forward for Puerto Rico’s schools and students.”

NAEP assessments report performance using average scores and percentages of students at or above three achievement levels: Basic, Proficient and Advanced. The 2013 assessment results showed that 11 percent of fourth-graders in Puerto Rico and 5 percent of eighth-graders in public schools performed at or above the Basic level; conversely, 89 percent of fourth-graders and 95 percent of eighth-graders scored below that level. The Basic level denotes partial mastery of the knowledge and skills needed for grade-appropriate work. One percent or fewer of students in either grade scored at or above the Proficient level, which denotes solid academic performance. Only a few students scored at the Advanced level.

The sample size for 8th graders was 5,200 students at 120 public schools in the Territory.

UPDATE: I’ve now discovered Puerto Rico’s scores on the 2012 international PISA test. Puerto Rico came in behind Jordan in math.

Results this abysmal can’t solely be an HBD problem (although it’s an interesting data point in any discussion of hybrid vigor); this has to also be due to a corrupt and incompetent education system in Puerto Rico.

New York Times’ comments aren’t generally very useful for finding out information, but Krugman’s piece did get this comment:

KO’R New York, NY 4 hours ago

My husband and I have had a house in PR for 24 years. For two of those years we taught English and ESL at Interamericana, the second largest PR university. Our neighbors have children in the public grade schools. In a nutshell: the educational system in PR is a joke!!! Bureaucratic and corrupt. Five examples: (1) In the elementary schools near us if a teacher is sick or absent for any reason, there is no class that day. (2) Trying to get a textbook changed at Interamericana requires about a year or more of bureaucratic shinnanigans (3) A colleague at Interamericana told us that he’d taught in Africa (don’t remember where) for a few years and PR was much worse in terms of bureaucracy and politics. ( (4) The teaching method in PR is for the teacher to stand in front of the class, read from the textbook verbatim, and have the students repeat what he or she read. And I’m not speaking just about English – this goes for all subjects. 5) Interamericana is supposed to be a bi-lingual iniversity. In practice, this means the textbooks are in English, the professor reads the Spanish translation aloud, and the usually minimal discussion is in Spanish. …

Public school spending in Puerto Rico is $7,429 per student versus $10,658 per student in the U.S. Puerto Rico spends more per student than Utah and Idaho and slightly less than Oklahoma.

Puerto Rico spends less than half as much as the U.S. average on Instruction: $3,082 in Puerto Rico vs. $6,520 in America, significantly less than any American state. But Puerto Rico spends more than the U.S. average on Total Support Services ($3,757 vs. $3,700). Puerto Rico is especially lavish when it comes to the shifty-sounding subcategories of General Administration ($699 in PR vs. $212 in America) and Other Support Services ($644 vs. $347). PR spends more per student on General Administration than any state in America, trailing only the notorious District of Columbia school system, and more even than DC and all 50 states on the nebulous Other Support Services.

Being a schoolteacher apparently doesn’t pay well in PR, but it looks like a job cooking the books somewhere in the K-12 bureaucracy could be lucrative.

The NAEP scores for Puerto Rico and the U.S. are for just public school students.

A higher percentage of young people in Puerto Rico attend private schools than in the U.S. The NAEP reported:

In Puerto Rico, about 23 percent of students in kindergarten through 12th grade attended private schools as of the 2011-2012 school year, compared with 10 percent in the United States. Puerto Rico results are not part of the results reported for the NAEP national sample.

So that accounts for part of the gap. But, still, public schools cover 77% of Puerto Ricans v. 90% of Americans, so the overall picture doesn’t change much: the vast majority of Puerto Rican 8th graders are Below Basic in math.

Another contributing factor is likely that quite a few Puerto Ricans summer in America and winter in Puerto Rico and yank their kids back and forth, which is disruptive to their education.

It’s clear that Puerto Ricans consider their own public schools to be terrible and that anybody who can afford private school should get out. The NAEP press release mentions that 100% of Puerto Rican public school students are eligible for subsidized school lunches versus about 50% in the U.S. Heck, Oscar-winner Benicio Del Toro’s lawyer father didn’t just send him to private school, they sent him to a boarding school in Pennsylvania.

Still, these Puerto Rican public school scores are so catastrophic that I also wouldn’t rule out active sabotage by teachers, such as giving students an anti-pep talk, for some local labor reason. For example, a PISA score from Austria was low a couple of tests ago because the teacher’s union told teachers to tell students not to bother working hard on the test. But the diminishment of the Austrian PISA score wasn’t anywhere near this bad. And Puerto Rico students got exactly the same scores in 2011 and 2013.

And here’s Jason Malloy’s meta-analysis of studies of Puerto Rican cognitive performance over the last 90 years.

 
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  1. hbd chick says: • Website

    must’ve been some amount of a brain drain to the mainland (nyc), too.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "must’ve been some amount of a brain drain to the mainland (nyc), too."

    Average New York Puerto Rican IQ is closer to that of African Americans than it is to New York City's ethnic Whites (Jews, Italians, and the Irish).

    Triple digit IQ Puerto Ricans in New York City are not exactly a dime a dozen. New York City did not receive most of Puerto Rico's cream of the crop immigrants. It is not like with India where we mostly receive their cream of the crop.

    Orlando and Miami, Florida Puerto Ricans are not exactly the brightest bunch either.

    , @Father O'Hara
    You mean we got the SMART ones?
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  2. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Why do anything when you can just milk off Americans?

    My observation of Puertos and Mexicans.

    Puertos have poor monetary discipline since they can legally come to US and get all the benefits. They just take everything for granted. They just see US as a big piggy bank.

    Mexicans may not be high achievers, but they — especially newcomers, legal or illegal — cannot get the same benefits, so they work harder and are very mindful of their money. They are not spendthrift.

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    • Replies: @Jose
    Do you know your country only give us in benefits less than 1/4 of the money they take from us? We are the piggy bank for you.
    , @Anon
    I'm not saying that you are wrong... but the fact is that the United States gets a lot more from having Puerto Rico as a colony than Puerto Rico gets out of it.
    You can check that very easily
    , @Anonymous
    Did you know that PR get's about $6billions in help? Did you also know that PR gives the U.S. more than $60 billions a year? Yeah, sure, who lives off who now? That's why they won't make us an state, nor give us independence, because just the way we are, without free commerce, they can control us. Did you know a gallon of milk here is almost $5.89? We have to pay expensive power and water bills, we have higher gas prices, food prices, medicine prices. Medicine that is fabricated here, send to the U.S., then back here again, with a higher price range.

    I do agree that some people move to get more benefits, and that people here do get them, but the benefits here are so low, that they can hardly live off them. So if poverty and education here is bad, we have two governments to blame. Ours for bad planning, and poor fund management. And yours for trying to make your education model fit in a different culture. For having us in our knees and making us ask for permission just to play with a neighbor. So don't criticize us, without looking at your side and putting blame where it should go.
    , @Anonymous
    Oh! That's your tesis Dr? :/
    , @Anonymous
    Anon do some research and find how much money the USA get from us and see who really es the piggy bank
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  3. syonredux says:

    And outmigration need not be such a terrible thing.

    MMMM, that rather depends on where they are “outmigrating” (Is there some reason why he didn’t use “emigration” instead of “outmigration?” ) to

    I certainly wouldn’t relish having them move into my neighborhood….

    There is much discussion of what’s wrong with Puerto Rico, but maybe we should, at least some of the time, just think of Puerto Rico as an ordinary region of the U.S.;

    Except for the fact that these scores indicate that Puerto Rico is most definitely not an “ordinary region” of the United States.

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    • Replies: @pinto



    There is much discussion of what’s wrong with Puerto Rico, but maybe we should, at least some of the time, just think of Puerto Rico as an ordinary region of the U.S.;
     
    Except for the fact that these scores indicate that Puerto Rico is most definitely not an “ordinary region” of the United States.
     
    Well, yeah, that is why the author is asking you to use your imagination!
    , @pinto



    There is much discussion of what’s wrong with Puerto Rico, but maybe we should, at least some of the time, just think of Puerto Rico as an ordinary region of the U.S.;
     
    Except for the fact that these scores indicate that Puerto Rico is most definitely not an “ordinary region” of the United States.
     
    Well, yeah, that is why the author is asking you to use your imagination!
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  4. Jefferson says:

    But according to the census, Puerto Rico is a 75 percent “White” island. Why do “White” Puerto Ricans perform so poorly in school? Puerto Rican “Whites” must be the dumbest “Whites” on the planet.

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    • Agree: Jeff77450
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    We're actually the dumbest whitepeople on the earth (it's even been authoritatively explained by the iSteve Dinner Club before). Meant to bring this up in the other post, but it got sidetracked into which celebs have the ugliest kids
    , @Nico
    A large percentage of Puerto Rican "whites" look curiously "mulatto." But I'm sure you knew that.

    NB: white skin and even respectable IQ and literacy don't preclude a country being a perpetual basket case, c.f. Argentina.

    , @europeasant
    I think that Puerto Rico does not have a one-drop rule. So one would be considered an African (mulatto, Quadroon, Octoroon) in The US but in Puerto Rico one would considered as White.
    , @Jo
    A lot of people in the island do not take these tests seriously because they are not worth a grade. Second, after "No Child Left Behind" was enacted, many schools eliminated their advanced programs, thus producing these results. When my youngest brother when to middle school, the advanced program that I attended was eliminated because of the NCLB tests.
    , @Anonymous
    No. 75% of PR are not White. Probably, 95% are Puertorican with less than 2% Whites. This is the problem: Our leaders are some dumbs that cannot understand the difference between the color black or white and the race Black and White. Thus, they cannot teach what they don't understand. So, most people in PR varies greatly in the colours or their skin.

    When they are confronted with the question: Are you White, Black, Hispanic or Asian? And they only can select one, they see Hispanic but they could be white or black in their skins. They select White if their colour of the skin is white but they select Hispanic if their colour of their skin is black.
    , @Lola
    Do you know your history, my friend? Or, you are like the most North american people? I know my history, we know where we come from, my friend. I think you wasted your time in the school..
    , @Anonymous
    Since when whites are the smarter people in the world?
    , @Anonymous
    I bet that your IQ is lower than the puertorricans.
    , @Anonymous
    Your racist comment is out of context. This is about how well or bad Puerto Rico handle education. The race have nothing to do with it.
    , @Anonymous
    Maybe they hillbilies or red neck or pinneys or wherever the hell you are.
    , @Anonymous
    Do not be such a moron this does not include the private school sector the other moron forgot to tell you so....
    , @Joseph
    With all due respect, I am puerrtorican and live on the island. I can say that the public educational system is a mess, that it’s very corrupt and politicized. But saying that we are dumb? Just for feature reference here are some facts for you to learn: Did you know that every year companies including NASA come to hire are students before they graduate from the university. We have one of the best engineering universities, here’s a link of just a few people from the island working for NASA: http://www.elnuevodia.com/ciencia/ciencia/nota/boricuasplantanbanderaenlanasa-2006608 it’s in Spanish by the way. Also, most of puertorricans are bilingual and if we are so dumb why do we get so good jobs with are academical preparation when me move to the states? In my opinion, test must be standardized for each culture and geographical location. For example, North Americans don’t learn in the same aspects as Chinese do, so it would be an error to evaluate Americans with test that are made for Chinese educational system. Every country has a different educational system, ours is bad, but calling people dumb for that is ignorant. Make research before commenting.
    , @pr
    Hi Jeff. Make your own research...% of PR graduates from Ivy league... % of PR graduates working at NASA...and so on before you make your racist comments. Post your grades...come this way and interview our school kids and find out about why they want our kids to fail those test....seems that you don't know anything about us or of our history... Get wise and find about it...
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  5. Anon says: • Disclaimer
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  6. Jefferson says:
    @hbd chick
    must've been some amount of a brain drain to the mainland (nyc), too.

    “must’ve been some amount of a brain drain to the mainland (nyc), too.”

    Average New York Puerto Rican IQ is closer to that of African Americans than it is to New York City’s ethnic Whites (Jews, Italians, and the Irish).

    Triple digit IQ Puerto Ricans in New York City are not exactly a dime a dozen. New York City did not receive most of Puerto Rico’s cream of the crop immigrants. It is not like with India where we mostly receive their cream of the crop.

    Orlando and Miami, Florida Puerto Ricans are not exactly the brightest bunch either.

    Read More
    • Replies: @grace
    I'm Puerto Rican.
    I'm an occupational therapist.
    My IQ is doing just fine.
    So is my paycheck.
    Go perseverate elsewhere with your pill-rolling buns.
    , @Randy
    Sorry but puertorricans aren't immigrants. Puertorricans are American citizens since 1917.
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  7. iSteveFan says:

    I’ve never been to Puerto Rico so I am open for corrections. But do the people of Puerto Rico speak Spanish only, or are they expected to learn English too? If so does English learning start in school? I ask because so many of my betters tell me that teaching children multiple languages increases their IQ and leads to better academic performance. If true then Puerto Ricans would have a huge advantage over the rest of Americans if they were native Spanish speakers who also received extensive English instruction.

    Either Puerto Ricans don’t learn multiple languages, or the theory that teaching multiple languages to kids as a way to increase academic performance is false. Or, I suppose there is a third explanation which many iStevers will explore.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    But do the people of Puerto Rico speak Spanish only, or are they expected to learn English too?
     
    Puerto Ricans take English from elementary school, but outside of middle-to-upper middle class San Juan, it is difficult to find anyone who can hold above a rudimentary conversation with you, unless they have lived in the states.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    But do the people of Puerto Rico speak Spanish only, or are they expected to learn English too?
     
    You'd think PRs who've made it all the way to Minnesota to work would have better-than-average English proficiency than the people back home, as well as other Latins. But the two I knew well had absolutely wretched spoken English, worse than any other Latins I've met here. (Who talked.) Though they did seem to understand what they heard.

    On the other hand, my late aunt's PR father was an urbane professional in NYC. He entertained us kids with card tricks at his son-in-law's untimely wake. His half-Irish daughter, while compassionate and loads of fun, was nevertheless a regression to the mean. His half-German grandchildren, my "Quarter Rican" cousins, were even more of a disappointment-- one's a petty criminal. Quite the counter-example of hybrid vigor!

    , @Anonymous
    Puertoricans only get basic english in public schools and I can say that most teachers these days in Puerto Rico are not doing their jobs as they supposed to.
    , @Anonymous
    I'm a puerto rican college student. Schools are supposed to teach both:Spanish and English. The problem is that the teaching itself is deficient. Most Puerto Rican students barely know how to write their own native language correctly and when you add english, the student ends up having a mess between the two languages.
    , @Will
    Public school does teach English, but not as it should. The problem here is that you have about a 44% that want statehood, (which most don’t dominate the English language) about 40% want it to stay the way it is,5% want independence, and about 11% want a free associated nation (whatever that is). Politic in the island is very damaging to the economic and education system. Every parties impose their ideal to benefit the status they want.

    Private education is to way to go in Puerto Rico. I’m lucky to have two of my children in private school. They learn proper English, and the education standard is high. (You get what you pay for). Don’t get me wrong, all public schools are not bad. We must remember that education start at home. We do have great doctors and journalists that were raise by public education. But unfortunately this is the exception. Public school teacher are prepared regrettably they don’t received the tools and the proper paid to execute their jobs. An amazing fact is that those teachers usually paint their classroom and buy school stuff with their poor salary.
    Brief history of Puerto Rico, we were invaded by the U.S in 1898; in 1917 we became American citizen just in time for WW1. P.R has been a great contributor for all wars; we have produced great amount of veteran including myself. For being a small island, P.R has produce great athletes, engineers, singers and military member to include Generals in the Air force, Marine and Army. We have the only rain forest in the U.S; we are the only place in the world that you can visit a rain forest and a dry forest in the same day. (I wouldn’t recommend it, each forest you need a minimum 2 day to see it completely.) Our beaches are better than Hawaii, or any states. Our mountains are beautiful. Our Ecosystem is something to talk about and we have one of the largest caverns in the world.
    For more information look up Dr. Cornelius Packard "Dusty" Rhoads and his studies on Puerto Ricans.
    , @Marileana
    Actually, we learn English formally starting in 1st grade all the way to 12th. We are all supposed to be bilingual and most are somewhat (they can understand it, but writing is a different story). Unfortunately there is a cultural bias towards learning English that I think is detrimental for public school students (3rd explanation). You don't see that in private schools. Personally, I think the bureaucracy is what ruins it. It sucks when getting your child a decent education means dishing out 10,000 - 12,000 a year for private school. Very sad!
    , @Anonymous
    Yes, english as a second language is taught in puerto rican public schools from the primary level to high school; and even at higher learning institutions at the same basic levels of high school. And just like the other test scores, the majority of students do not learn to speak fluent english, let alone understand it. Private schools in Puerto Rico have more success because not only do they teach english a second language, many of them use english to teach in the classroom. So it's in every students' respondibility to learn and not to waste their parents' money. I myself speak three languages: spanish, english and italian. Like me, there are others thst speak 2 or more languages, but the majority (just like in any topic spoke about in Puerto Rico), just don't take it seriously. Sadly.
    , @Anonymous
    They have an english class in every grade... but it is a joke. I went to school there and I knew more english than my teachers, they would ask me for help! The tests and school work for english class is something similar to those given in the US IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.
    , @Anonymous
    Here is your correction. I'm puertorican, born and raised in Puerto Rico. And as you can see I am replying to your coment in English. First, most of the people in PR speaks both languages. We learn English in school. The thing with the test, I think is, students in PR don't need a good score to graduate or passing grade. Therefore, they kind of do it just because they have to, not because they need it. I guess they don't put a lot of effort on it. When I was in High School I took the Advanced Test and I did put effort on it because I was told if I passed I didn't have to take some first year classes in college. And so it was. Meaning, I passed my tests! What they don't mention here is that US gives more money to those schools that fail. As a puertorican, I'm not proud to say this, but the Department of Education take advantage of that.
    , @Gia
    Puerto Ricans are not stupid. The public education in Puerto Rico is atrocious. The government steals all of the money and leaves kids with no teachers, no books and absolutely no substitutes. Because of the division in politics they do not focus on teaching English except the basic words. Pretty much what Americans learn of spanish in high school. I currently live in Puerto Rico and my kids will be going to private school bc public school is a disaster. I'm glad people are being made aware of what's going on over here. No need for racism or insults, this is a perfect example of corruption and the ones affected are the poor.
    , @Anonymous
    Puerto Rico is "officially" a bilingual territory...meaning that spanish and english should be considered the official languages. But thats just dumb PR stunt the government chose to do back in the early 90's in order to show the US how similar we are to each other. Needless to say, it's not true. Most Puerto Ricans are not fully bilingual. They might be able to "defend themselves" (yeah thats a translated puerto rican idiom, sue me) in english but they certainly can't speak it. Most Puerto Ricans that do speak english are either 1) higher class individuals that could afford a decent education [cause remember, the public schools here are catastrophically bad (my mom is a teacher in one and i'm on my way to become one)] or 2) Mid to high class individuals that grew up with americanised media (american TV, movies, video games, etc.) and assimilated the language rather quickly.
    , @Anonymous
    We take english from k-12 grade.
    , @Anonymous
    @Gia is 100% correct. That said, I went to private school and my College Board, SAT and MSAT scores were really good, so I was able to pick whatever college I wanted to go. I will not deny that our public system is a disaster, that is why my son attends private school also.

    There will be good and bad students in both sides of the fence, but justifying the bad grades to "genetics" and ethnicity is purely racist. I held management positions in different companies in the US, and if I was going to judge all white people for a couple of "Homers" I had working for me, USA would be doomed. But I don't judge the general population based on those "fine" examples. So do not judge puerto ricans going through that line, that would only show what type of character (or lack thereof ) you have.

    I really cannot believe some of the comments here.
    , @Anonymous
    Just a bit of history. After four hundred years of Spanish colonization in Puerto Rico, Castellano or Spanish had become the language of communication. The Spanish regime lost control in 1898 at the end of the Spanish-American War. The Treaty of Paris, which ended the war between the United States and Spain, ceded Puerto Rico and other territories to the United States. Since then, Puerto Rico has been a territory of the United States. English language policy in Puerto Rico at the school level began after the Spanish-American War ended.
    The 1902 Official Languages Act or Foraker Act (see Chapter 2) “granted official status to both English and Spanish” on the island (Resnick, 1993, p. 261). The Anglo-Americans who governed the island tried unsuccessfully to impose the English language on a people whose native language had been Spanish for centuries (Pousada, 1996; Resnick, 1993). Puerto Ricans had developed a cultural identity tied to the Spanish language and resisted the imposition of English (Pousada, 1996, 1999). Moreover, the ratio between the North American and Puerto Rican population was never large enough to lead to language shift. Nevertheless, between 1900 and 1949, English was the language of instruction in the secondary public schools on the island (Torres-González, 2002).
    During the second half of the twentieth century, the United States granted Puerto Rico limited autonomy. The islanders elected the first Puerto Rican governor in 1949, Luis Muñoz Marín. Governor Muñoz Marín and other leaders had been discussing educational problems and solutions, including the language of instruction used in public schools. Immersion in English was not working well for two reasons: (1) the availability of English teachers on the island was too small and (2) demographically, too few Anglo-Americans lived on the island. In 1949, Spanish became the language of instruction in public schools and English became a subject to be taught in all grades (Clampitt-Dunlap, 2000; Pousada, 1996; Torres-González, 2002). Still, the quality of English instruction has been and continues to be poor due to the lack of trained English teachers.
    A century after Puerto Rico became a United States territory and with numerous attempts to institute English as a primary language on the island, the native language of most Puerto Ricans continues to be Spanish (Baker, 2001). The clarification of Puerto Rico’s political status “would lead to clarification of language goals and roles, which would, it is hoped, lead to better language teaching” (Pousada, 1996, p. 504). As shown above, political uncertainty leads to a language policy of confusion. Therefore, increasingly, those who have the option send their children to private schools (Pousada, 1996). Additionally, private schools, in general, are not affected by the governmental political environment and, as such, are more stable regarding language policy.
    Although there is a lot more history, I hope this somewhat helps in your understanding.
    , @Anonymous
    I born and live in. PR

    We speak both

    We are not lazy or nothing like that

    I was a student too ,the young people just doenst care
    They do this Test as ramdon
    And sometimes the teacher just tell the student that this is for nothing

    And the other is that we dont pay attention to those exam

    We just go and do a little work and start to think what we are going to do when we grow up
    We are not dumb or anything we just dont care

    Am 23 years old and study in private school

    , @Anonymous
    They actually recieve English clases since first grade. But, for the most, they do not seem to learn it.
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  8. Puerto Ricans actually perform much worse than their racial admixture would suggest. Admixture studies show that PRs are half-white by ancestry, but they perform much worse than that. That tends to indicate that there’s something cultural that really screws up the people.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    Admixture studies show that PRs are half-white by ancestry,
     
    This is not true, the average PR is considered to be about 90% white, 8% black and 2% Indian.
    , @Steve Sailer
    My vague impression is that Cuba got the more on-the-go sort of Spaniard, while Puerto Rico was considered a rural backwater.

    For example, in the 1920s, the world chess champion was a Cuban native, Capablanca.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Ra%C3%BAl_Capablanca

    My impression is that nobody at the time was particularly astonished that the world's best chess player was from Cuba. It would be kind of like if he were an Argentinean.

    It will be interesting to find out how much human capital Cuba has left.
    , @Jo
    The performance is not because of their ethnicity, is because many of those schools no longer offer actual advance placement classes due to the "No Child Left Behind" act. It's incredible how ignorant many of the people in here are; making a POLITICAL situation into an ethnical situation. If shit like NCLB, or "common core" didn't exist, the test scores would be higher. Also, if teachers could bribe the students somehow; many students don't take these tests seriously solely because these tests don't have any grade value. In the mind of the average student, these tests are a waste of time because the are not going to earn any form of extra credit but a bunch of strangers online making a bunch of assumptions based on their ethnicity.
    , @Anonymous
    Religion. It has torn their own thinking process. Puerto Ricans for the most of them believe in leaving all responsibility on god. Or blame the devil if something goes wrong , add a corrupt government to the mix, the inhability to choose freely, since PR is a territory of the USA....
    , @Anonymous
    Worked for 30 yrs for Union Carbide Chemical Co.
    The main problem with education in P R is that it is controlled by the political parties. Whoever wins the elections every 4 yrs. get to nominate Secretary of Education. Who, in turn chooses their affiliates to work and run the schools. Nothing gets done.Every 4 yrs. switching leaders and plundering the budget.
    , @Anonymous
    Education quality is not a matter of race.
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  9. Das says:

    I’m guessing some sort of crazy screwup in the design of the Spanish version of the NAEP exam.

    Do we have scores for the Spanish-language NAEP among students in the mainland US?

    It seems hard to believe that Puerto Ricans are actually doing phenomenally worse than Mexican ESL students in Texas, but who knows.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Perhaps, but the evidence in the press release suggests the feds have been trying for years to come up with a test on which Puerto Ricans wouldn't score so badly and couldn't do it.

    They used to give a straight translation of the NAEP to students in Puerto Rico, but the scores were so low they had to invent a new test with easier questions just for Puerto Ricans. The feds tried it out in 2011 and got the 5/95 split, but didn't release the results. They tried it again in 2013 and got the exact same results, so they quietly released the scores a few months ago.

    , @Anonymous
    Im Puertorican and the problem in Puerto Rico is literally, the government ... the corruption is out of control ... don't go by the sadistic go by what is the government doing from 30 years back until now? .... nothing!
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  10. syonredux says:

    Jason Malloy did a very thorough overview of literature relating to Puerto Rican IQ.Some selections:

    IQ in Puerto Rico

    Table I features 26 studies for Puerto Rico. The single best study for estimating intelligence in Puerto Rico is the large 1977 standardization of the Raven Progressive Matrices—a nonverbal test of reasoning ability that is well designed for cross-cultural comparisons. IQ on this test was 82.8. Three more well-known IQ tests were normed on large samples, but this involved adapting the test items to another language and culture, which requires additional assumptions about cross-cultural comparability. IQ on all four tests was 82.7. All together, 19 studies provide scores that might appropriately be compared with U.S. norms: from these samples I estimated an IQ of 84.6 for Puerto Rico (Section Ic).

    IQ of Puerto Rican Americans:

    Table II features 45 studies for Puerto Ricans living in the parts of the United States that aren’t Puerto Rico (Yes, it has been awkward trying to communicate this technicality throughout the post). Four normal samples from Hawaii in the 20s and 30s had an average IQ of 74.2. An additional 30 studies provide adequate scores for the rest of the mainland United States. My estimate for Puerto Rican Americans from these samples was 84.7, but other methods suggest that this is too low:

    The 14 studies administered since 1980 exhibit a higher average: 87.4 (Section IIe).
    The 13 studies that compare white and mainlander samples directly suggest a relative IQ of 89.4 (Section IIf).
    SAT Reasoning Test data was compiled for the 37 years 1976-2013. Some 500,000 Puerto Ricans had a standard score of 88.2 (Section IIIb).
    Scores from the 30 IQ studies can be sub-divided by age and analyzed by birth cohort, creating 50 different samples with a time-invariant average of 86.9 (Section IVe).
    Taking an average of these five methods gives us a final IQ estimate of 87.3 for Puerto Rican Americans. This is close to Lloyd Dunn’s joint estimate of 88-90 for Puerto Ricans and Mexicans (Dunn, 1988).

    Mainlander Characteristics:

    Puerto Rican Americans develop a modest IQ advantage over their island cousins. Three additional test differences were observed between the island and the mainland:

    Ability Patterns: Mainlanders score 1/3 of standard deviation higher on nonverbal tests than they do on verbal tests. Islanders score equally well on verbal and nonverbal tests. This suggests language difficulties are hampering mainlander IQ performance (Section IIIc).
    Sex differences: There is a small sex difference in favor of females on the mainland. This IQ difference is not apparent on the island. In theory this suggests something of a negative environmental effect on mainland scores (perhaps the language handicap just described). The lack of a female superiority on the island (which has lower scores and more disadvantages than the mainland) might be explained by cultural exposures that uniquely disfavor females (Section IVc).
    Age differences: The entire score difference between whites and mainlanders is observed years before school entry, and this gap is stable throughout childhood and adolescence. The smallest differences are observed in adulthood, suggesting that the mainland environment does not cumulatively disfavor Puerto Ricans. In contrast, the difference between mainland whites and islanders is smallest before school entry. The comparative gap widens through childhood and adolescence, and is largest for adults. This pattern is consistent with the cumulative effects of differentially advantageous environments: the United States environment is apparently more beneficial for cognitive development (Section IVd).
    The 2.7 IQ point difference between islanders and mainlanders is an underestimate of the beneficial effects of the mainland environment since migrants have lower initial test performance than islanders (Rodriguez et al, 1985; Section IIIa). Mainlanders also have more nonwhite ancestry, which is associated with lower IQ scores (Section IVa).

    Heredity & Environment

    Racial appearance and identity are highly associated with test performance on the island and on the mainland. The relationship between racial identity and IQ is not as strong among Puerto Ricans as it is among Americans, but the relationship between racial identity and racial ancestry is also significantly weaker among Puerto Ricans—an admixed population.

    Lloyd Dunn estimated that about half of the gap between whites and Puerto Rican Americans could be explained by nonwhite racial ancestry. This is a pro forma hereditarian estimate for black and white differences (e.g. Rushton & Jensen, 2005). But I feel like this a better estimate for the difference between white Americans and ethnic groups in their source nations than whites and ethnic groups in the United States, where the population shares a high quality first world environment. I think its quite possible that ethnic gaps in the US are close to entirely genetic. Section IVa suggests that the average mainlander IQ is what you would predict just by knowing their racial ancestry.

    Standard environmental theories don’t have much to offer in explaining ethnic gaps. For example, gaps are seen long before children enter school (Section IVd), but behavior genetics suggests that the shared family environment—which includes socioeconomic status—contributes almost nothing to long-term intellectual development. ‘Culture’ is a popular yet amorphous idea, that isn’t really quantified or empirically demonstrated. Language probably does contribute to the Puerto Rican American gap, but it is apparent that it can’t explain much. No matter what their language, Puerto Rican scores fall in a limited range: Spanish-speaking Puerto Ricans score comparatively low on translated tests, on tests that are adapted for use in multiple languages, and on tests that don’t use language at all. Bilingual Puerto Ricans score comparatively low when given English or Spanish language tests, and also on nonverbal tests. And English-speaking Puerto Ricans perform comparatively low on English language tests and on nonverbal tests (Section IIIc). The highest average scores were the post-1970s nonverbal IQ of mainlanders (90.4), and the SAT scores of monolingual English-speaking Puerto Ricans (91.6). This seems like an approximate limit to how much of the gap language differences can explain.

    On the other hand, Puerto Rican islanders score over 1/3 of a standard deviation lower than would be predicted by their nonwhite ancestry. If we assume that moving to the mainland and fully assimilating the culture and the language could raise their IQ to, say, 92, then that would be exactly half of the gap between whites and Puerto Ricans explained by environmental differences.

    http://humanvarieties.org/2014/03/13/hvgiq-puerto-rico-2/

    Read More
    • Replies: @grace
    I'm a Puerto Rican female. I have a stereotypical Puerto Rican appearance and my IQ is well above the average, mainland 100.
    So don't you naysayers get your undies in a bunch. Just relax.
    92? Pffttt.
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  11. Keith Vaz [AKA "Sir Charles Pipkins"] says:

    You say PRs perform badly, I say the tests are racist. Privilege.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Puertorican and Sort of Proud
    I couldn't agree more. Just reading about the sex appeals and preference of males over females was just appalling. Clearly they have no sense of respect or idea for the puertorican mainland as it is evident that they have never even stepped one foot into our island. And this is coming from someone that lives in Puerto Rico, is 18 years ok and studied in a private school all her life but was surrounded by multiple family members whom have studied in public schools in different parts of the island and have excelled in their academic performances. Not going to lie, there ARE horrible public schools but they're only like that because of the teachers. There are good teachers that want the best for their students but cannot afford better textbooks for them, similar situation can be found in the movie Freedom Writers, and then there are the teachers that frankly don't give a damn about their students as becoming a teacher was a "one way out" to obtaining a job and simply receiving money and that's it. Unfortunately there are people that also like to live by their current situation and don't care about improving. It's just like that. But I want to assure that not many of us are like that. That's all I wanted to say. And I want these stupid little "Americans" to stop judging us by the stereotypical cover usually portrayed by the media and news like this type. Most of us strive for a better education and future and then there are others that don't. But right now, there's a high number of us teens and young adults that are caring for their future and I think this has a lot to do with social media, which, thank God has increased their interest in pursuing studies abroad High School and into college. I know them, I know us. And the U.S. needs to stop comparing and contrasting based on numbers that are not accurate and disgracing the Puertorican families.
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  12. OT-

    Is Violence a Function of our Culture?

    At the Aspen Institute, Premiere American public intellectual Ta-Nehisi Coates discusses urban violence in America with New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu. Hosted by Jeffrey Goldberg.

    Mayor Landrieu seems like a sincere, stand-up guy. Coates argues at 43:00 point that there is nothing that the Black community needs to do to address violence. At 53:00 minute, Coates claims that if he was appointed “King” his only policy change would be to release all violent criminals from the prisons. His main contribution to the discussion is to announce that he is Black.

    So there is nothing that Blacks could do to reduce violence and the best policy solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons. This is where the intellectual Left is at this point.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    So there is nothing that Blacks could do to reduce violence and the best policy solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons. This is where the intellectual Left is at this point.
     
    This should make firearms manufacturers very happy, indeed.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Thanks for watching all that so the rest of us don't have to. I just saw a few minutes and Goldberg's ahs and uhms were grating. As someone who speaks professionally on occasion, he ought to work on that. I did learn, though, that Hi-Octane Siesta's name is pronounced differently than the way I'd assumed.
    , @Clyde
    It is a true testimony to our times that Ta-Nehisi Coates has gotten as far as he has as a public intellectual. I'll bet 70% of blacks agree with him. Of course he also has legions of self-flagellating Salon type whites too. How else could a black guy with a zero resume, with three Muslim names, get elected President twice? Summer 2005 was when the mega real estate bubble started to deflate. It took ten years for America to go very bizarre.
    , @countenance
    So there is nothing that Blacks could do to reduce violence and the best policy solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons. This is where the intellectual Left is at this point.

    It doesn't make us look good that we can't beat these people going away.
    , @Truth

    So there is nothing that Blacks could do to reduce violence and the best policy solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons.
     
    He said nothing that even could be cognitively confused with "the best solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons." As a matter of fact, what he said was so far from that that it leads me to conclude that you are Puerto Rican.
    , @Alfa158
    Thanks for that link, it was fascinating to watch. All the discussions about violence in the Black community were reference to victims rather than perpetrators. They spent an hour sometimes tiptoeing up to the issue of just who is doing all the killing, but then taking fright and running back to talking as if aliens beam down into our cities to exterminate Black people. They even threw in the old myths about how violent the Old West was compared to today, Italians used to be as violent as the inner city is today, guns walk around shooting people etc.
    At least TNC didn't have any surprises in store.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Also, it's interesting that TNC doesn't see an issue with violence in the black community. I'm thinking of two examples from his own blog. In one, he described an incident in New York, where a woman bumped into or said something to Coates's son, and Coates confronted her, and then a male bystander (presumably, white) interceded on her behalf, and Coates shoved him to the ground. Then Coates described how he grabbed his son and ran away in fear that the police would arrest him because he was "a 6'4" black man" [who had just shoved someone to the ground]. I don't recall him wondering whether the guy he shoved to the ground walked away in fear of being shoved to the ground by another black man.

    The other example is one of the guest bloggers Coates selected to post on his blog during one of his absences: a black guy who went to jail for carjacking and then wrote a memoir about it. What are the odds that a random white blogger knows a convicted carjacker who can spell him?

    , @Hacienda
    Is there surgeon in the audience? We have an emergency case of the moderator's proboscal epidermis stuck up inside the guest's rectal lining.

    Also known as the Blatt James Syndrome.
    , @Stan D Mute
    TNC spent all his time either whining about how horrible it was that he had to do mundane things like get dressed and go to school or excusing negro criminality. He admitted that negroes committed far more crime against themselves than the Klan ever did, but claims negro crime is only because of white actions in the past. It was revealing when he admitted that his father (!) experienced the same or greater violence in the negro community as a child in Philly. This isn't new - it defines the negro experience.

    I'd never listened to TNC before and had never been able to read through his incomprehensible screeds. I managed this only because Landrieu was interesting. The message I came away with is that white liberals want to "fix" the negro violence problem and that negroes don't regard it as a problem in need of fixing. TNC even wants to let all the violent convicts (negro only I'm sure) out of prison. Preaching about personal responsibility to negroes is a waste of air, but if it keeps the leftists busy that's ok. Negro violence isn't going to stop. We may as well demand that Jews stop being argumentative or Italians stop moving their hands while talking. And the more you try to discuss problems in negro communities, the more defensive and angry negroes get - eventually you'll provoke the very negro violence you want to end.
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  13. Jefferson says:

    I wonder what the average IQ is for Puerto Rican/White Gringo hybrids like Geraldo Rivera and Frankie Muniz for example. These hybrids on average must have higher IQ’s than people who are 100 percent Puerto Rican.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel H
    Geraldo's father was Jewish. Has to be an important factor contributing to his relatively high IQ.
    , @attilathehen
    90% of Puerto Ricans have black ancestry. That is the reason for low iqs. Geraldo Rivera may have had a white Puerto Rican father (his mother is Ashkenazi Jewish). Frankie Muniz's father was most likely a white Puerto Rican too. This accounts for the higher iq. Puerto Ricans like Rosie Perez, Jennifer Lopez, Rita Moreno, Jimmy Smits, Luis Guzman have black ancestry.
    , @Anonymous
    I am a white, Spaniard descendant, puertorican, with a BS in Natural Science and Nursing degree. Worked my profession for 25+ years. Used to read, write and speak both in Spanish and English. My son and daughter are both bilingual professionals product it the puertorican public schools system. The diference? My family (even the extended one) have always been aware and oriented about the benefits of a good education and WE began the education of our children IN THE HOUSEHOLD way before entering pre school. It is all a matter of concern, resposability and leading our children to a good education and living style.
    , @Anonymous
    Frankie Muniz is Cuban Anerican.
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  14. Ed says:

    I recently read that Puerto Ricans utilize private schools at the highest rate in the country. Evidently the high utilization goes all the way down to the poor. So the public school students are probably the lowest of the low.

    Read More
    • Replies: @George
    There are over 44 universities, 1530 public schools and 570 private schools, with most located in the capital, San Juan.

    http://livinginpuertorico.com/best-private-schools/

    What are the SAT and college board results for PR?

    NAEP test seems only to be given in public school
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Puerto_Rico
    , @Levi
    You got it right!!!
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  15. vinny says:

    OT, Steve, have you been watching this PBS First Peoples show? It’s actually quite good. There’s a huge amount of genetics task, especially about genes we get from archaic homo species. Old hat for HBD types, but surprising for such a mainstream source.

    A quote: “scientists have discovered a geographic clustering to some genes.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @iSteveFan

    OT, Steve, have you been watching this PBS First Peoples show?
     
    My PBS station is showing something called 'Growing Up Trans' tonight. I guess this another front in Steve's WWT.
    , @carol
    Meanwhile PBS World continues to run trannie docs...really it's just too too much.

    [edit] Ha, see above. This is just one how of a PBS tranathon.

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  16. @Das
    I'm guessing some sort of crazy screwup in the design of the Spanish version of the NAEP exam.

    Do we have scores for the Spanish-language NAEP among students in the mainland US?

    It seems hard to believe that Puerto Ricans are actually doing phenomenally worse than Mexican ESL students in Texas, but who knows.

    Perhaps, but the evidence in the press release suggests the feds have been trying for years to come up with a test on which Puerto Ricans wouldn’t score so badly and couldn’t do it.

    They used to give a straight translation of the NAEP to students in Puerto Rico, but the scores were so low they had to invent a new test with easier questions just for Puerto Ricans. The feds tried it out in 2011 and got the 5/95 split, but didn’t release the results. They tried it again in 2013 and got the exact same results, so they quietly released the scores a few months ago.

    Read More
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  17. pinto says:
    @syonredux

    And outmigration need not be such a terrible thing.
     
    MMMM, that rather depends on where they are "outmigrating" (Is there some reason why he didn't use "emigration" instead of "outmigration?" ) to

    I certainly wouldn't relish having them move into my neighborhood....

    There is much discussion of what’s wrong with Puerto Rico, but maybe we should, at least some of the time, just think of Puerto Rico as an ordinary region of the U.S.;
     
    Except for the fact that these scores indicate that Puerto Rico is most definitely not an "ordinary region" of the United States.

    There is much discussion of what’s wrong with Puerto Rico, but maybe we should, at least some of the time, just think of Puerto Rico as an ordinary region of the U.S.;

    Except for the fact that these scores indicate that Puerto Rico is most definitely not an “ordinary region” of the United States.

    Well, yeah, that is why the author is asking you to use your imagination!

    Read More
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  18. iSteveFan says:
    @vinny
    OT, Steve, have you been watching this PBS First Peoples show? It's actually quite good. There's a huge amount of genetics task, especially about genes we get from archaic homo species. Old hat for HBD types, but surprising for such a mainstream source.

    A quote: "scientists have discovered a geographic clustering to some genes."

    OT, Steve, have you been watching this PBS First Peoples show?

    My PBS station is showing something called ‘Growing Up Trans’ tonight. I guess this another front in Steve’s WWT.

    Read More
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  19. pinto says:
    @syonredux

    And outmigration need not be such a terrible thing.
     
    MMMM, that rather depends on where they are "outmigrating" (Is there some reason why he didn't use "emigration" instead of "outmigration?" ) to

    I certainly wouldn't relish having them move into my neighborhood....

    There is much discussion of what’s wrong with Puerto Rico, but maybe we should, at least some of the time, just think of Puerto Rico as an ordinary region of the U.S.;
     
    Except for the fact that these scores indicate that Puerto Rico is most definitely not an "ordinary region" of the United States.

    There is much discussion of what’s wrong with Puerto Rico, but maybe we should, at least some of the time, just think of Puerto Rico as an ordinary region of the U.S.;

    Except for the fact that these scores indicate that Puerto Rico is most definitely not an “ordinary region” of the United States.

    Well, yeah, that is why the author is asking you to use your imagination!

    Read More
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  20. Daniel H says:
    @Jefferson
    I wonder what the average IQ is for Puerto Rican/White Gringo hybrids like Geraldo Rivera and Frankie Muniz for example. These hybrids on average must have higher IQ's than people who are 100 percent Puerto Rican.

    Geraldo’s father was Jewish. Has to be an important factor contributing to his relatively high IQ.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel H
    Ooops. Meant to say that his mother was Jewish.
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  21. peterike says:

    this has to also be due to a corrupt and incompetent education system in Puerto Rico.

    Flip it inside-out. Maybe, just maybe, as in Irma la Douce, an honest cop unexpectedly walked onto the scene, and in the Puerto Rican schools they aren’t able to game the system. It’s as good a reason as any.

    But that’s another story.

    Read More
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  22. Daniel H says:
    @Daniel H
    Geraldo's father was Jewish. Has to be an important factor contributing to his relatively high IQ.

    Ooops. Meant to say that his mother was Jewish.

    Read More
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  23. carol says:
    @vinny
    OT, Steve, have you been watching this PBS First Peoples show? It's actually quite good. There's a huge amount of genetics task, especially about genes we get from archaic homo species. Old hat for HBD types, but surprising for such a mainstream source.

    A quote: "scientists have discovered a geographic clustering to some genes."

    Meanwhile PBS World continues to run trannie docs…really it’s just too too much.

    [edit] Ha, see above. This is just one how of a PBS tranathon.

    Read More
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  24. Alabamans used to say “Thank God for Mississippi” when stacking those underachievement metrics, so this Mississippian can now say, “Thank God for Puerto Rico!”

    Read More
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  25. attilathehen [AKA "Matilda"] says:
    @Jefferson
    I wonder what the average IQ is for Puerto Rican/White Gringo hybrids like Geraldo Rivera and Frankie Muniz for example. These hybrids on average must have higher IQ's than people who are 100 percent Puerto Rican.

    90% of Puerto Ricans have black ancestry. That is the reason for low iqs. Geraldo Rivera may have had a white Puerto Rican father (his mother is Ashkenazi Jewish). Frankie Muniz’s father was most likely a white Puerto Rican too. This accounts for the higher iq. Puerto Ricans like Rosie Perez, Jennifer Lopez, Rita Moreno, Jimmy Smits, Luis Guzman have black ancestry.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bigboy
    Allegedly Geraldo Rivera's father has some African ancestry. I've heard from a reliable Puerto Rican source that Gerlado has claimed to have a black grandfather or great-grandfather on his Puerto Rican side. Not sure how true this is. His father may have Amerindian anestry as well. There's an Amerindian component to Puerto Ricans

    Most Puerto Ricans aren't black, but if 90% of Puerto Ricans have African ancestry (do you have a source for this assertion), then that 90% would include people who are predominantly European in appearance and ancestry.

    , @Anonymous
    you're kidding right?! what's wrong with you people?! do you even read?! it's not about genes or IQ, it's our corrupted system that doesn't care about our education... all the people you mention were rise OUTSIDE Puerto Rico, so you can't compare them with us... 90% of us have black ancestry?! ALL OF US have black ancestry!!! your comment is very racist you know... Do you speak any other language?! spanish maybe? Ha!
    , @marileana
    Where did you get that 90%? Puerto Ricans have ⅓ black, ⅓ white and ⅓ taíno. Geez! ¡Atrevida es la ignorancia!
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  26. If you work through the numbers, the test scores in PR are a full 2 SD below those of the standard American population.

    I do wonder if they just have really, really crappy schools on top of their demographic problems.

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  27. jJay says:

    Am I misinterpreting something?

    Yes. Duh! The tests are culturally and environmentally skewed toward rewarding your own predisposition of what has value. The Progs will call for a ban of “West Side Story” at US high school spring theater presentations within a few years (if this hasn’t happened already). “Skyscrapers bloom in America” is wrong-think.

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  28. It could have something to do with language. I suspect Dominicans have a similar level of achievement, and many low achieving African Americans speak a very low vocabulary dialect of English and don’t understand words from outside their own dialect. Contrast my relatives in England who speak broad Yorkshire dialect, but can also switch to standard English as needed.

    Read More
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  29. Twinkie says:
    @Clifford Brown
    OT-

    Is Violence a Function of our Culture?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytt1j_7TImU

    At the Aspen Institute, Premiere American public intellectual Ta-Nehisi Coates discusses urban violence in America with New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu. Hosted by Jeffrey Goldberg.

    Mayor Landrieu seems like a sincere, stand-up guy. Coates argues at 43:00 point that there is nothing that the Black community needs to do to address violence. At 53:00 minute, Coates claims that if he was appointed "King" his only policy change would be to release all violent criminals from the prisons. His main contribution to the discussion is to announce that he is Black.

    So there is nothing that Blacks could do to reduce violence and the best policy solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons. This is where the intellectual Left is at this point.

    So there is nothing that Blacks could do to reduce violence and the best policy solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons. This is where the intellectual Left is at this point.

    This should make firearms manufacturers very happy, indeed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    Felons can't own guns. Probably everybody that legally can already has one in black neighborhoods.
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  30. Wilkey says:

    “Unmentioned by Krugman, the lowest scores among public school students are in liberal Washington D.C.: 35% Basic, 15% Proficient, and 4% Advanced.”

    Odd that. They always like to include D.C. in the state stats when it makes D.C. look good, or when they’re trying to gin up enthusiasm for making D.C. a state.

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  31. anon says: • Disclaimer

    OT:

    Bruce Jenner is the gift that keeps on giving.

    most recently i used Bruce Jenner to prove William Saletan wrong on gay marriage, and he couldn’t respond with a logical answer — he did try:

    “[Saletan] is saying here that homosexuality, unlike polyamory, is immutable, and hence non-analogous to polyamory. His argument goes something like this: one is born gay and remains so throughout life, but one isn’t born polyamorous, and nor is one biologically compelled to remain so throughout life.

    Not so fast.

    If gender is fluid, then sexual orientation is not immutable. Here is why:

    Caitlyn Jenner was born a man and was a heterosexual for the majority of her life, but then she became a woman who is sexually attracted to other women, and hence her sexual orientation became homosexual. Since her sexual orientation changed from heterosexual to homosexual, it is by definition mutable.”

    https://samfrancis716.wordpress.com/2015/07/01/whither-gay-marriage/

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    • Replies: @Anon
    "His argument goes something like this: one is born gay and remains so throughout life, but one isn’t born polyamorous, and nor is one biologically compelled to remain so throughout life."

    Tell that to Bill Clinton. If he could have it his way, he would be an Ottoman Sultan with tons of wives.

    Many men are born very horny and wants lots of women. It's in their genes.

    Of course, super-horny men can try to control themselves but so can homosexuals.

    But homos naturally want to bugger other men, and super-horny men naturally want more than one partner.

    So, both homo-ness and poly-golly-ness are immutable in some men.

    Also, many homos are also immutably poly-golly. They wants lots of men, and I'll bet some homo men will want to be join in poly-homo-gamy.

    If fact, a lot of men(and even women) are naturally predisposed to want several or even many partners. It's in their genes.

    Also, from a purely legal viewpoint, what does it matter if it's immutable or not? The Scotus decision was based on individual freedom. So, if an individual wants to marry multiple partners or marry someone in the same family, why should he or she be denied when homos are not denied the 'right to marry'?

    It's all about individual choice.

    Besides, 'same sex marriage' now even allows two straight men who are NOT homo to marry just to exchange social benefits.

    Nothing immutable there but only economics involved. But 'same sex marriage' allows it.

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  32. Hunsdon says:

    Fundamentally.

    Unserious.

    People.

    We’re FUPped.

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  33. […] and 3% scored Advanced. Puerto Rico’s test scores are just shamefully low, suggesting that Puerto Rican schools are completely dropping the ball. […]

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  34. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    but what about the CHUPACABRA?

    Puerto Rico is generally recognized as a forward base for unsuitable chupacabra/human multiculturalism

    there may be a causal relationship discernible between these axes…but which two should be selected i.e.: IQ, chupacabra, (log)chupacabra, chupacabras under a log, human cuts down log with axes thus injuring chupacabra

    perhaps, not a braindrain, but a brain suck is in effect…can we still afford to disregard the depictions in so many songs, purporting to warn of chupacabras slipping soda straws into drunk or sleeping Puerto Rican ears so as to slurp up tasty glia like a vacuum cleaner running through spilled pudding …(in particular tapioca) ???

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    but what about the CHUPACABRA?
     
    Chupacabras, like tocadiscos.
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  35. At this Puerto Rican test score news, with any luck the spirit of Leonard Bernstein is now toiling away on a new musical titled Worst Side Story.

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  36. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    We need this:

    LTAJP: Let’s talk about Jewish power.

    In light of recent Supreme Court decisions and War on the White South, it is time to honestly talk about the real power behind what is going on.

    Coulter and Trump’s bashing of Mexicans won’t do.

    We could have stopped Mexicans long ago if we had the will. How come we didn’t have the will? How come those with elite power prevented us from doing what was necessary to protect US borders?

    LTAJP.

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  37. Father O'Hara [AKA "rihanna"] says:
    @hbd chick
    must've been some amount of a brain drain to the mainland (nyc), too.

    You mean we got the SMART ones?

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Yes, we have about 300 working at NASA. The Director of Operations or what is called The Spymaster at CIA during great part of the Cold War was also Puerto Rican. Of course, Benicio del Toro and Ricky Martin. Let's not forget Justice Sotomayor. That's a small sample.
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  38. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I pretty much owe my career to hybrid vigor. It’s why I’m as irresistible to 34-year-old Pitchfork contributing editors as to girls in the 8th grade. Certainly didn’t get here by musical ingenuity or managing state finances.

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  39. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Jefferson
    But according to the census, Puerto Rico is a 75 percent "White" island. Why do "White" Puerto Ricans perform so poorly in school? Puerto Rican "Whites" must be the dumbest "Whites" on the planet.

    We’re actually the dumbest whitepeople on the earth (it’s even been authoritatively explained by the iSteve Dinner Club before). Meant to bring this up in the other post, but it got sidetracked into which celebs have the ugliest kids

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  40. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Clifford Brown
    OT-

    Is Violence a Function of our Culture?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytt1j_7TImU

    At the Aspen Institute, Premiere American public intellectual Ta-Nehisi Coates discusses urban violence in America with New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu. Hosted by Jeffrey Goldberg.

    Mayor Landrieu seems like a sincere, stand-up guy. Coates argues at 43:00 point that there is nothing that the Black community needs to do to address violence. At 53:00 minute, Coates claims that if he was appointed "King" his only policy change would be to release all violent criminals from the prisons. His main contribution to the discussion is to announce that he is Black.

    So there is nothing that Blacks could do to reduce violence and the best policy solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons. This is where the intellectual Left is at this point.

    Thanks for watching all that so the rest of us don’t have to. I just saw a few minutes and Goldberg’s ahs and uhms were grating. As someone who speaks professionally on occasion, he ought to work on that. I did learn, though, that Hi-Octane Siesta’s name is pronounced differently than the way I’d assumed.

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  41. Clyde says:
    @Clifford Brown
    OT-

    Is Violence a Function of our Culture?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytt1j_7TImU

    At the Aspen Institute, Premiere American public intellectual Ta-Nehisi Coates discusses urban violence in America with New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu. Hosted by Jeffrey Goldberg.

    Mayor Landrieu seems like a sincere, stand-up guy. Coates argues at 43:00 point that there is nothing that the Black community needs to do to address violence. At 53:00 minute, Coates claims that if he was appointed "King" his only policy change would be to release all violent criminals from the prisons. His main contribution to the discussion is to announce that he is Black.

    So there is nothing that Blacks could do to reduce violence and the best policy solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons. This is where the intellectual Left is at this point.

    It is a true testimony to our times that Ta-Nehisi Coates has gotten as far as he has as a public intellectual. I’ll bet 70% of blacks agree with him. Of course he also has legions of self-flagellating Salon type whites too. How else could a black guy with a zero resume, with three Muslim names, get elected President twice? Summer 2005 was when the mega real estate bubble started to deflate. It took ten years for America to go very bizarre.

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  42. Manny says:

    Since when is Puertorican a race? Puertorican come in all races and colors!
    Public schools in PR are awful. Most people choose to go to private schools that are unfortunately Catholic. English is mandatory, but politics play a roll on that and most things! Until they don’t decide their political status, between statehood or independence, nothing will change!

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  43. Truth says:

    Result this abysmal can’t solely be an HBD problem

    Steve, EVERT abysmal result is solely an HBD problem, and everything that is not a problem is do to HBD causation.

    At least this is what a very smart man has been telling me for years.

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  44. Truth says:
    @iSteveFan
    I've never been to Puerto Rico so I am open for corrections. But do the people of Puerto Rico speak Spanish only, or are they expected to learn English too? If so does English learning start in school? I ask because so many of my betters tell me that teaching children multiple languages increases their IQ and leads to better academic performance. If true then Puerto Ricans would have a huge advantage over the rest of Americans if they were native Spanish speakers who also received extensive English instruction.

    Either Puerto Ricans don't learn multiple languages, or the theory that teaching multiple languages to kids as a way to increase academic performance is false. Or, I suppose there is a third explanation which many iStevers will explore.

    But do the people of Puerto Rico speak Spanish only, or are they expected to learn English too?

    Puerto Ricans take English from elementary school, but outside of middle-to-upper middle class San Juan, it is difficult to find anyone who can hold above a rudimentary conversation with you, unless they have lived in the states.

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  45. Basileus says:

    Dan’s comment above is right. I think somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-25 percent of students in PR attend private school (compared to what, 10 percent in the mainland?). Not sure how much that might be skewing the results, but it has to be at least a little bit.

    My experience was that anybody who could afford it would go to private school. There are a lot of them and they are pretty affordable. My classmates were probably around 60 percent solid middle class, 30 percent lower middle class and maybe 10 percent upper middle and above.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.

    Supporting that, from the NAEP press release:

    "In Puerto Rico, 100 percent of public school students are eligible for the lunch program, compared with about 50 percent of public school students in the United States."

    So apparently absolutely everybody who can afford it in Puerto Rico sends their kid to private school. Heck, now that I think of it, Benicio Del Toro's parents sent him to boarding school in Pennsylvania.

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  46. Truth says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Puerto Ricans actually perform much worse than their racial admixture would suggest. Admixture studies show that PRs are half-white by ancestry, but they perform much worse than that. That tends to indicate that there's something cultural that really screws up the people.

    Admixture studies show that PRs are half-white by ancestry,

    This is not true, the average PR is considered to be about 90% white, 8% black and 2% Indian.

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    • Replies: @Realist
    "This is not true, the average PR is considered to be about 90% white, 8% black and 2% Indian."

    Citation?
    , @Jefferson
    "This is not true, the average PR is considered to be about 90% white, 8% black and 2% Indian."

    No way in hell is the average Puerto Rican 90 percent White in ancestry. That is Argentinian and Uruguayan level of Whiteness and the average Puerto Rican does not look as White in phenotype as the average Argentinian and the average Uruguayan.
    , @ben tillman

    This is not true, the average PR is considered to be about 90% white, 8% black and 2% Indian.
     
    That is the funniest thing you've ever posted. I have no idea what people on the island look like, but those I've encountered in the 50 states seem to average about 60% Black, 15% Indian, 15% Jewish, and 10% White.
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  47. countenance says: • Website
    @Clifford Brown
    OT-

    Is Violence a Function of our Culture?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytt1j_7TImU

    At the Aspen Institute, Premiere American public intellectual Ta-Nehisi Coates discusses urban violence in America with New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu. Hosted by Jeffrey Goldberg.

    Mayor Landrieu seems like a sincere, stand-up guy. Coates argues at 43:00 point that there is nothing that the Black community needs to do to address violence. At 53:00 minute, Coates claims that if he was appointed "King" his only policy change would be to release all violent criminals from the prisons. His main contribution to the discussion is to announce that he is Black.

    So there is nothing that Blacks could do to reduce violence and the best policy solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons. This is where the intellectual Left is at this point.

    So there is nothing that Blacks could do to reduce violence and the best policy solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons. This is where the intellectual Left is at this point.

    It doesn’t make us look good that we can’t beat these people going away.

    Read More
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  48. Truth says:
    @Clifford Brown
    OT-

    Is Violence a Function of our Culture?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytt1j_7TImU

    At the Aspen Institute, Premiere American public intellectual Ta-Nehisi Coates discusses urban violence in America with New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu. Hosted by Jeffrey Goldberg.

    Mayor Landrieu seems like a sincere, stand-up guy. Coates argues at 43:00 point that there is nothing that the Black community needs to do to address violence. At 53:00 minute, Coates claims that if he was appointed "King" his only policy change would be to release all violent criminals from the prisons. His main contribution to the discussion is to announce that he is Black.

    So there is nothing that Blacks could do to reduce violence and the best policy solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons. This is where the intellectual Left is at this point.

    So there is nothing that Blacks could do to reduce violence and the best policy solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons.

    He said nothing that even could be cognitively confused with “the best solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons.” As a matter of fact, what he said was so far from that that it leads me to conclude that you are Puerto Rican.

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  49. Alfa158 says:
    @Clifford Brown
    OT-

    Is Violence a Function of our Culture?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytt1j_7TImU

    At the Aspen Institute, Premiere American public intellectual Ta-Nehisi Coates discusses urban violence in America with New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu. Hosted by Jeffrey Goldberg.

    Mayor Landrieu seems like a sincere, stand-up guy. Coates argues at 43:00 point that there is nothing that the Black community needs to do to address violence. At 53:00 minute, Coates claims that if he was appointed "King" his only policy change would be to release all violent criminals from the prisons. His main contribution to the discussion is to announce that he is Black.

    So there is nothing that Blacks could do to reduce violence and the best policy solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons. This is where the intellectual Left is at this point.

    Thanks for that link, it was fascinating to watch. All the discussions about violence in the Black community were reference to victims rather than perpetrators. They spent an hour sometimes tiptoeing up to the issue of just who is doing all the killing, but then taking fright and running back to talking as if aliens beam down into our cities to exterminate Black people. They even threw in the old myths about how violent the Old West was compared to today, Italians used to be as violent as the inner city is today, guns walk around shooting people etc.
    At least TNC didn’t have any surprises in store.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "They even threw in the old myths about how violent the Old West was compared to today, Italians used to be as violent as the inner city is today,"

    Is there actually any evidence that Italians in the U.S at one time committed violent crimes at African American levels? Is there any evidence that people who's last names ended in a vowel like Cavazzini and Santoro for example, were vastly overrepresented in the prison population in early 20th Century America? Where exactly were these Italian communities in the U.S where the per capita violent crime rate was equal to or higher than that of East St. Louis and Gary, Indiana?
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  50. JimB says:

    Hispanic students + nice white lady school teachers = 41% basic + 18% proficient in math

    Hispanic students + Hispanic teachers = 5% basic + 0% proficient in math

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  51. eah says:

    Accessible info re the demography of PR claims 75% of the population is white.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Accessible info re the demography of PR claims 75% of the population is white."

    The average Puerto Rican is not even White by New York City standards which is full of Italians and Jews, let alone White by Minnesota standards which is full of Swedes and Germans.

    "White" in Puerto Rico is not the same thing as White in the mainland United States.
    , @Realist
    What percent of the 'white' population has black genetics?
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  52. Jefferson says:
    @Alfa158
    Thanks for that link, it was fascinating to watch. All the discussions about violence in the Black community were reference to victims rather than perpetrators. They spent an hour sometimes tiptoeing up to the issue of just who is doing all the killing, but then taking fright and running back to talking as if aliens beam down into our cities to exterminate Black people. They even threw in the old myths about how violent the Old West was compared to today, Italians used to be as violent as the inner city is today, guns walk around shooting people etc.
    At least TNC didn't have any surprises in store.

    “They even threw in the old myths about how violent the Old West was compared to today, Italians used to be as violent as the inner city is today,”

    Is there actually any evidence that Italians in the U.S at one time committed violent crimes at African American levels? Is there any evidence that people who’s last names ended in a vowel like Cavazzini and Santoro for example, were vastly overrepresented in the prison population in early 20th Century America? Where exactly were these Italian communities in the U.S where the per capita violent crime rate was equal to or higher than that of East St. Louis and Gary, Indiana?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    My impression is that Italian violence tends to be rather selective and planned out. Michael Corleone brooding for two hours about Fredo becoming a liability to the family gives some of the flavor.
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  53. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Clifford Brown
    OT-

    Is Violence a Function of our Culture?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytt1j_7TImU

    At the Aspen Institute, Premiere American public intellectual Ta-Nehisi Coates discusses urban violence in America with New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu. Hosted by Jeffrey Goldberg.

    Mayor Landrieu seems like a sincere, stand-up guy. Coates argues at 43:00 point that there is nothing that the Black community needs to do to address violence. At 53:00 minute, Coates claims that if he was appointed "King" his only policy change would be to release all violent criminals from the prisons. His main contribution to the discussion is to announce that he is Black.

    So there is nothing that Blacks could do to reduce violence and the best policy solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons. This is where the intellectual Left is at this point.

    Also, it’s interesting that TNC doesn’t see an issue with violence in the black community. I’m thinking of two examples from his own blog. In one, he described an incident in New York, where a woman bumped into or said something to Coates’s son, and Coates confronted her, and then a male bystander (presumably, white) interceded on her behalf, and Coates shoved him to the ground. Then Coates described how he grabbed his son and ran away in fear that the police would arrest him because he was “a 6’4″ black man” [who had just shoved someone to the ground]. I don’t recall him wondering whether the guy he shoved to the ground walked away in fear of being shoved to the ground by another black man.

    The other example is one of the guest bloggers Coates selected to post on his blog during one of his absences: a black guy who went to jail for carjacking and then wrote a memoir about it. What are the odds that a random white blogger knows a convicted carjacker who can spell him?

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Also, it’s interesting that TNC doesn’t see an issue with violence in the black community."

    TNC becomes more outraged by the rare White on Black homicide than he does about the daily Black on Black homicide that goes on 24 hours a days, 7 days week, 365 days a week. How many Blacks in this country have been murdered by other Blacks since the Charleston shooting? I guarantee it is a hell of a lot more than 9 that's for damn sure.

    Whites are the opposite of Blacks, we become more angry at instances of White on White homicide than we do with instances of Black on White homicide. How many Whites in this country would have given a damn about Natalee Holloway's death and disappearance if Joran Van Der Sloot had been Black?

    White people only care about White on White homicides and Black people only care about White on Black homicides. Both only care about criminal cases where the perpetrator is White.

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  54. MarkinLA says:
    @Twinkie

    So there is nothing that Blacks could do to reduce violence and the best policy solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons. This is where the intellectual Left is at this point.
     
    This should make firearms manufacturers very happy, indeed.

    Felons can’t own guns. Probably everybody that legally can already has one in black neighborhoods.

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    • Replies: @Former Darfur
    Felons can’t own guns. Probably everybody that legally can already has one in black neighborhoods.

    Approximately everyone, felon or not, in black neighborhoods have guns, unless they are on some particularly strict parole or probation where their crib can be searched any time. Since so many black males ( and quite a few black females) are legally proscribed, though, they can't exactly go down to the local shooting range to shoot legally, which means their skills are especially poor and that blacks are especially prone to letting off a few rounds somewhere when they think that they can get away with it. Having poorer judgment than adult whites, this occasionally leads to tragedy.

    I have a female (white) co-worker who moonlights in the firearms department of a big box sporting gear and outdoorsey chain. She sells guns, quite legally from her (and the store's) standpoint, to far more black females than black males. The black women are usually coached well enough to give no visible indications of the dread "straw man purchase", although some do slip up and the errant woman is told to go away. That's all. She then realizes her error or is coached some more in 'the community' and goes to the other location a week later and gets "her" gun. The ATF is not especially interested in busting underclass black women for this offense unless her man does something extraordinarily egregious: for one thing, the ATF knows that in federal court any moderately competent attorney can load the jury with blacks who will nullify with extreme prejudice. Whereas very few Whites will do so for a white gun defendant.

    Blacks do tend not to care very well for their firearms and if they break will often just toss them out and go buy another. For one thing, if you are a felon you'd be very dumb to go to a gunsmith shop since you have to be recorded in his log book.


    Although gun laws are not very effective at keeping blacks from possessing firearms (and, in fact, I support the right of blacks to own firearms with no less intensity than anyone else: after all they have even more need to defend themselves) they do keep blacks from carrying them around all the time.
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  55. Jefferson says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    Also, it's interesting that TNC doesn't see an issue with violence in the black community. I'm thinking of two examples from his own blog. In one, he described an incident in New York, where a woman bumped into or said something to Coates's son, and Coates confronted her, and then a male bystander (presumably, white) interceded on her behalf, and Coates shoved him to the ground. Then Coates described how he grabbed his son and ran away in fear that the police would arrest him because he was "a 6'4" black man" [who had just shoved someone to the ground]. I don't recall him wondering whether the guy he shoved to the ground walked away in fear of being shoved to the ground by another black man.

    The other example is one of the guest bloggers Coates selected to post on his blog during one of his absences: a black guy who went to jail for carjacking and then wrote a memoir about it. What are the odds that a random white blogger knows a convicted carjacker who can spell him?

    “Also, it’s interesting that TNC doesn’t see an issue with violence in the black community.”

    TNC becomes more outraged by the rare White on Black homicide than he does about the daily Black on Black homicide that goes on 24 hours a days, 7 days week, 365 days a week. How many Blacks in this country have been murdered by other Blacks since the Charleston shooting? I guarantee it is a hell of a lot more than 9 that’s for damn sure.

    Whites are the opposite of Blacks, we become more angry at instances of White on White homicide than we do with instances of Black on White homicide. How many Whites in this country would have given a damn about Natalee Holloway’s death and disappearance if Joran Van Der Sloot had been Black?

    White people only care about White on White homicides and Black people only care about White on Black homicides. Both only care about criminal cases where the perpetrator is White.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    TNC becomes more outraged by the rare White on Black homicide than he does about the daily Black on Black homicide that goes on 24 hours a days, 7 days week, 365 days a week.
     
    If you're Black, you have to live with the problems that Blacks cause one another. However, you don't have to live with the problems that Whites cause Blacks. (You could separate.)

    That's a choice. And Coates chooses to accept those problems as a condition to getting access to the White man's wealth.

    No, wait.

    I guess your point is that he refuses to accept the cost and expects to reap the benefit. So you are right after all.
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  56. @iSteveFan
    I've never been to Puerto Rico so I am open for corrections. But do the people of Puerto Rico speak Spanish only, or are they expected to learn English too? If so does English learning start in school? I ask because so many of my betters tell me that teaching children multiple languages increases their IQ and leads to better academic performance. If true then Puerto Ricans would have a huge advantage over the rest of Americans if they were native Spanish speakers who also received extensive English instruction.

    Either Puerto Ricans don't learn multiple languages, or the theory that teaching multiple languages to kids as a way to increase academic performance is false. Or, I suppose there is a third explanation which many iStevers will explore.

    But do the people of Puerto Rico speak Spanish only, or are they expected to learn English too?

    You’d think PRs who’ve made it all the way to Minnesota to work would have better-than-average English proficiency than the people back home, as well as other Latins. But the two I knew well had absolutely wretched spoken English, worse than any other Latins I’ve met here. (Who talked.) Though they did seem to understand what they heard.

    On the other hand, my late aunt’s PR father was an urbane professional in NYC. He entertained us kids with card tricks at his son-in-law’s untimely wake. His half-Irish daughter, while compassionate and loads of fun, was nevertheless a regression to the mean. His half-German grandchildren, my “Quarter Rican” cousins, were even more of a disappointment– one’s a petty criminal. Quite the counter-example of hybrid vigor!

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  57. Hacienda says:
    @Clifford Brown
    OT-

    Is Violence a Function of our Culture?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytt1j_7TImU

    At the Aspen Institute, Premiere American public intellectual Ta-Nehisi Coates discusses urban violence in America with New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu. Hosted by Jeffrey Goldberg.

    Mayor Landrieu seems like a sincere, stand-up guy. Coates argues at 43:00 point that there is nothing that the Black community needs to do to address violence. At 53:00 minute, Coates claims that if he was appointed "King" his only policy change would be to release all violent criminals from the prisons. His main contribution to the discussion is to announce that he is Black.

    So there is nothing that Blacks could do to reduce violence and the best policy solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons. This is where the intellectual Left is at this point.

    Is there surgeon in the audience? We have an emergency case of the moderator’s proboscal epidermis stuck up inside the guest’s rectal lining.

    Also known as the Blatt James Syndrome.

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  58. Clyde says:

    way way way OT:

    “Former Iowa State University scientist Dong-Pyou Han, 58, who altered blood samples to make it seem like he made progress in HIV vaccine will spend 4 and half years behind bars.Cho’s team began receiving NIH funding, and he soon reported the vaccine was causing rabbits to develop antibodies to HIV, which was considered a major breakthrough. Han said he initially accidentally mixed human blood with rabbit blood making the potential vaccine appear to increase an immune defense against HIV, the virus that can cause AIDS.”
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3146788/Ex-Iowa-State-University-scientist-gets-four-years-prison-altering-research-HIV-vaccine-mixing-RABBIT-blood-human-blood.html

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    • Replies: @Realist
    He started his bullshit at Case Western Reserve University .
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  59. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    What sort of jobs do Puerto Ricans resident in the USA do?

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  60. @Basileus
    Dan's comment above is right. I think somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-25 percent of students in PR attend private school (compared to what, 10 percent in the mainland?). Not sure how much that might be skewing the results, but it has to be at least a little bit.

    My experience was that anybody who could afford it would go to private school. There are a lot of them and they are pretty affordable. My classmates were probably around 60 percent solid middle class, 30 percent lower middle class and maybe 10 percent upper middle and above.

    Thanks.

    Supporting that, from the NAEP press release:

    “In Puerto Rico, 100 percent of public school students are eligible for the lunch program, compared with about 50 percent of public school students in the United States.”

    So apparently absolutely everybody who can afford it in Puerto Rico sends their kid to private school. Heck, now that I think of it, Benicio Del Toro’s parents sent him to boarding school in Pennsylvania.

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  61. Realist says:
    @Truth

    Admixture studies show that PRs are half-white by ancestry,
     
    This is not true, the average PR is considered to be about 90% white, 8% black and 2% Indian.

    “This is not true, the average PR is considered to be about 90% white, 8% black and 2% Indian.”

    Citation?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    That was a study I read some years ago, I searched for it and couldn't find it. It may be that I got it wrong. It now seems that now the studies indicate much more mixed heritage.

    The average Puerto Rican individual carries 12% Native American, 65% West Eurasian (Mediterranean, Northern European and/or Middle Eastern) and 20% Sub-Saharan African DNA.

    http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2014/07/25/genographic-project-dna-results-reveal-details-of-puerto-rican-history/
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  62. Jefferson says:
    @Truth

    Admixture studies show that PRs are half-white by ancestry,
     
    This is not true, the average PR is considered to be about 90% white, 8% black and 2% Indian.

    “This is not true, the average PR is considered to be about 90% white, 8% black and 2% Indian.”

    No way in hell is the average Puerto Rican 90 percent White in ancestry. That is Argentinian and Uruguayan level of Whiteness and the average Puerto Rican does not look as White in phenotype as the average Argentinian and the average Uruguayan.

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    • Replies: @Puertorican and Sort of Proud
    That's because you haven't met me a-hole. I'm Puertorican and whiter than paper. Y'all better stop commenting based on typical stereotypes. We are a varied culture and we are all different colors. There are those extremely pale, pale with orange hair, pale and blonde, pale and brunette, sort of pale but not paler than paper, the whities that get a nice tan and don't become red, the tan ones, the olive skin ones, the cappuccino tan ones, the mocha frap. color (legit), the fair skinned, and black blacks. But most are pretty tanned, not many are black black (unless you go to Loiza and Carolina, then there you'll find more black-skinned people who are also mostly Dominican.)
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  63. Giuseppe says:

    You are pointing to an obvious break in communication between English-speaking and Spanish-speaking education administrators. I’m guessing that the bottom line is the English language administrators don’t really know how their policies are actually being carried out because they can’t effectively check up on anybody in Puerto Rico.

    These linguistic-cultural breaks are common, they are all around us. Just last weekend for instance I had the experience of shopping in a Seattle in both an art store, and at IKEA. At the art store, (it was Gay Pride weekend) there was a palpable joyful vibe expressed in hyper-politeness by the employees at the Supreme Court’s legalization of same-sex marriage. IKEA just a little later was filled with families from Asia and the Middle East who were into their own concerns and didn’t give a rat’s ass (I am guessing) about any recent rulings by SCOTUS. They were all just enjoying themselves at IKEA in a wide variety of languages.

    The problem you are highlighting is that the Puerto Rican education administrators don’t really give a rat’s ass about badly translated directives from the Department of Education. So let the Puerto Ricans develop their own tests and teaching methods. Or not. It’s called freedom.

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  64. @MarkinLA
    Felons can't own guns. Probably everybody that legally can already has one in black neighborhoods.

    Felons can’t own guns. Probably everybody that legally can already has one in black neighborhoods.

    Approximately everyone, felon or not, in black neighborhoods have guns, unless they are on some particularly strict parole or probation where their crib can be searched any time. Since so many black males ( and quite a few black females) are legally proscribed, though, they can’t exactly go down to the local shooting range to shoot legally, which means their skills are especially poor and that blacks are especially prone to letting off a few rounds somewhere when they think that they can get away with it. Having poorer judgment than adult whites, this occasionally leads to tragedy.

    I have a female (white) co-worker who moonlights in the firearms department of a big box sporting gear and outdoorsey chain. She sells guns, quite legally from her (and the store’s) standpoint, to far more black females than black males. The black women are usually coached well enough to give no visible indications of the dread “straw man purchase”, although some do slip up and the errant woman is told to go away. That’s all. She then realizes her error or is coached some more in ‘the community’ and goes to the other location a week later and gets “her” gun. The ATF is not especially interested in busting underclass black women for this offense unless her man does something extraordinarily egregious: for one thing, the ATF knows that in federal court any moderately competent attorney can load the jury with blacks who will nullify with extreme prejudice. Whereas very few Whites will do so for a white gun defendant.

    Blacks do tend not to care very well for their firearms and if they break will often just toss them out and go buy another. For one thing, if you are a felon you’d be very dumb to go to a gunsmith shop since you have to be recorded in his log book.

    Although gun laws are not very effective at keeping blacks from possessing firearms (and, in fact, I support the right of blacks to own firearms with no less intensity than anyone else: after all they have even more need to defend themselves) they do keep blacks from carrying them around all the time.

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    • Replies: @Big Bill

    Approximately everyone, felon or not, in black neighborhoods have guns, 
     
    So true. 100 years ago maybe 50 people a year in the entire USA were lynched.

    To fight this scourge, Ida B. Wells (that tireless crusader for black folks) said that "a Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every black home".

    Flash forward 100 years to 2015. 50 dead black folks is a typical toll not for a year, but for a single weekend. Black folks aren't fools. They know their men and boys are killing them and they refuse to live unarmed in the hood.
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  65. Jefferson says:

    “What sort of jobs do Puerto Ricans resident in the USA do?”

    The ones who are not on welfare usually have government jobs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JimB
    Like Sonia Sotomayor. I don't think she worked for private law firm paycheck in her life.
    , @Gia
    Wtf? We do everything lol (and prs are the dumb ones smh) we are doctors, lawyers, engineers, nurses, secretaries, teachers, Supreme Court justices', pretty much everything any other ethnicity works In.... In fact nasa recruits a lot of their engineers from the UPR... You guys need to get out more
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  66. Jefferson says:
    @eah
    Accessible info re the demography of PR claims 75% of the population is white.

    “Accessible info re the demography of PR claims 75% of the population is white.”

    The average Puerto Rican is not even White by New York City standards which is full of Italians and Jews, let alone White by Minnesota standards which is full of Swedes and Germans.

    “White” in Puerto Rico is not the same thing as White in the mainland United States.

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    • Replies: @todd

    "The average Puerto Rican is not even White by New York City standards which is full of Italians and Jews, let alone White by Minnesota standards which is full of "
     
    Puerto Ricans have been in the U.S for over a hundred years, and the vast majority were always considered white. During segregation, before there was a concept of hispanic/latino, they were white, and had the legal rights and privileges of whites.

    Rita Moreno was white, Sonia Sotomayor , "the wise Latina", was born white, etc...

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  67. Realist says:
    @eah
    Accessible info re the demography of PR claims 75% of the population is white.

    What percent of the ‘white’ population has black genetics?

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "What percent of the ‘white’ population has black genetics?"

    Frank Sweet is a Puerto Rican guy who is the moderator of a discussion board called "The Study Of Racialism". He said he is considered "White" in Puerto Rico even though a AncestryByDNA result revealed that he is 13 percent Sub Saharan African, basically an Octoroon.

    He said the result did not shock him because his Puerto Rican family have a broad range of different skin colors and hair textures. He said his family is similar to that of a Louisiana Creole
    family who are also known for having a broad range of different phenotypes. Puerto Ricans are basically like Spanish speaking versions of Louisiana Creoles. Both groups are racially ambiguous mystery meat.

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  68. @Jefferson
    "They even threw in the old myths about how violent the Old West was compared to today, Italians used to be as violent as the inner city is today,"

    Is there actually any evidence that Italians in the U.S at one time committed violent crimes at African American levels? Is there any evidence that people who's last names ended in a vowel like Cavazzini and Santoro for example, were vastly overrepresented in the prison population in early 20th Century America? Where exactly were these Italian communities in the U.S where the per capita violent crime rate was equal to or higher than that of East St. Louis and Gary, Indiana?

    My impression is that Italian violence tends to be rather selective and planned out. Michael Corleone brooding for two hours about Fredo becoming a liability to the family gives some of the flavor.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    There is a reason why they used to call it "Organized Crime". There are some organized black crime gangs but most black crime is "Disorganized Crime".
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  69. anon says: • Disclaimer

    It should be noted that hybrid vigor proper, i.e. the 2+2=5 scenario, is really only relevant in the first generation of crosses. Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, and High Yellow black folk are wayyy too inter-mixed.

    Also, humans of any given race aren’t nearly inbred enough for it in the first place (save perhaps some New Guinea valley dwellers and remote islanders). You often hear we have relatively little genetic diversity compared to other species. But that lack of diversity is trivial compared to purebred livestock or canines. Those things are inbred. In that sense, hybrid vigor can be veiwed as merely a release from the shackles of an inbred-ness penalty.

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    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Hybrid vigor happen when you have a little-to-discret infusion of genes of other group or when similar groups marry each other... And happen selective advantageous processes. Large scale of mixing race seems to be a type of exogamic depression.
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  70. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    There’s a small core of PRs that I’ve met who were well mannered, good students, were reliable workers and took their religion seriously. However, it’s also hard to perceive them as PRs. A PR who goes skiing? Who ever heard of that, don’t they all have pit bulls, crummy looking tattoos and wear wife-beater shirts? The majority, though, have no interest in education, reading or anything of that sort. Perhaps island living does that to people. There’s no evidence of hybrid vigor here (or anywhere). Growing up I noticed that the PR fathers were extremely harsh in doling out physical punishment, using leather straps on their sons in ways that would make your average person cringe. Anecdotal, I know, but something I used to notice

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  71. Truth says:
    @Realist
    "This is not true, the average PR is considered to be about 90% white, 8% black and 2% Indian."

    Citation?

    That was a study I read some years ago, I searched for it and couldn’t find it. It may be that I got it wrong. It now seems that now the studies indicate much more mixed heritage.

    The average Puerto Rican individual carries 12% Native American, 65% West Eurasian (Mediterranean, Northern European and/or Middle Eastern) and 20% Sub-Saharan African DNA.

    http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2014/07/25/genographic-project-dna-results-reveal-details-of-puerto-rican-history/

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    I thought it more like half, but this newest study found that Puerto Ricans are 65% white, 12% Native, and 20% black. I assume maybe the remainder are Asian?

    So that'd imply that PR is ethnically pretty similar to the U.S. Their low test scores (and high rates of dysfunctional behaviors like illegitimacy, homicide, and welfare abuse) really can't be fully attributed to black ancestry, as previously theorized.

    I guess PR represents an example of a very low-performing, predominately white country. It'd be interesting to discern what went wrong. Ron Unz once pointed out that Argentina and some of the other predominately white Latin nations under performed what ancestry alone would suggest, so maybe there's something else going on? Why do mostly-white Latinos do so badly so often?

    The interesting thing is that Africans and Afro-Carribeans academically do a lot better than ancestry would suggest, both in the US and the UK. In places like New York City,black Jamaican kids are outperforming their white PR classmates substantially. HBD would never have predicted that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBbA9wXh4M

    , @Clyde

    Our Genographic team learned some key pieces of information that helped us gain more insight into the peopling of the Caribbean. Most surprisingly, we found that roughly 60% of Puerto Ricans carry maternal lineages of Native American origin. Native American ancestry, higher than nearly any other Caribbean island, originated from groups migrating to Puerto Rico from both South and Central America. Analysis of the Y Chromosome DNA found that no Puerto Rican men (0%) carried indigenous paternal lineages, while more than 80% were West Eurasian (or European).
     

    The average Puerto Rican individual carries 12% Native American...
     
    Good link there but my own take from encountering Puerto Ricans is the Amerindian component is 40%-50%. Going against the scientific DNA analysis. All were pleasant people.
    One guy put in 35 years with the NYC Parks Department. So had a great pension and had great gardening skills in his retirement years. His Puerto Rican wife looked pure European while he looked half Taino/ He had macho pride about getting up on his ladder and working on his roof leaks at age 75. People begged him to desist but that's not what killed him. He got run over by an idiot driver on a drizzly day. My own (prejudiced) take is the driver was a female immigrant but I have no proof. I must ask someone who might know. He was a great guy and full of common sense. If he were alive, for sure I would be asking him about roof repair.
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  72. eah says:

    : Apparently not.

    : No idea.

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  73. @Truth
    That was a study I read some years ago, I searched for it and couldn't find it. It may be that I got it wrong. It now seems that now the studies indicate much more mixed heritage.

    The average Puerto Rican individual carries 12% Native American, 65% West Eurasian (Mediterranean, Northern European and/or Middle Eastern) and 20% Sub-Saharan African DNA.

    http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2014/07/25/genographic-project-dna-results-reveal-details-of-puerto-rican-history/

    I thought it more like half, but this newest study found that Puerto Ricans are 65% white, 12% Native, and 20% black. I assume maybe the remainder are Asian?

    So that’d imply that PR is ethnically pretty similar to the U.S. Their low test scores (and high rates of dysfunctional behaviors like illegitimacy, homicide, and welfare abuse) really can’t be fully attributed to black ancestry, as previously theorized.

    I guess PR represents an example of a very low-performing, predominately white country. It’d be interesting to discern what went wrong. Ron Unz once pointed out that Argentina and some of the other predominately white Latin nations under performed what ancestry alone would suggest, so maybe there’s something else going on? Why do mostly-white Latinos do so badly so often?

    The interesting thing is that Africans and Afro-Carribeans academically do a lot better than ancestry would suggest, both in the US and the UK. In places like New York City,black Jamaican kids are outperforming their white PR classmates substantially. HBD would never have predicted that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "I thought it more like half, but this newest study found that Puerto Ricans are 65% white, 12% Native, and 20% black. I assume maybe the remainder are Asian?

    So that’d imply that PR is ethnically pretty similar to the U.S. Their low test scores (and high rates of dysfunctional behaviors like illegitimacy, homicide, and welfare abuse) really can’t be fully attributed to black ancestry, as previously theorized."

    That is not the racial demographics of Puerto Rico, that is the genetic ancestry of the average Puerto Rican. The average Puerto Rican is genetically 20 percent Sub Saharan African. that 20 percent was certainly enough to have an affect on Puerto Rico being a mediocre society.

    "I guess PR represents an example of a very low-performing, predominately white country."

    I think it is funny that you consider Puerto Ricans to be a White ethnic group, but consider Jews to be a Nonwhite Mixed Race group which you said in another iSteve blog where the topic was about race and IQ. Who is more likely to be considered People Of Color using Jim Crow's one drop rule, Puerto Ricans or Jews?

    , @Jefferson
    "In places like New York City,black Jamaican kids are outperforming their white PR classmates"

    Hahahahaha, you have to be smoking that 420 if you believe most K-12 Puerto Ricans in New York City's public schools are White.

    Here is what the typical phenotypes are of Puerto Rican kids in New York City's urban inner city K-12 public schools. They don't exactly racially look like the kids on Little House On The Prairie and Eight Is Enough.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgyN4p7K0LE

    The very poor academic performance of Puerto Rican kids in New York City's K-12 public schools is not because most of them are White trash, it is because most of them are People Of Color.
    , @Nico
    There's so much here I don't know where to start.

    ... this newest study found that Puerto Ricans are 65% white, 12% Native, and 20% black.
     
    No doubt those figures are based on self-identification. How many Puerto Ricans have you actually seen, either Stateside or on the Island? Puerto Rico is a Latin American society where racial identity runs along a mestizo-mulatto spectrum, not a "one-drop" rule. To the extent that "one drop" EVER applies in the Caribbean, it is those with any appreciable European ancestry who discreetly identify as white - the opposite of how it is in America.

    When a Puerto Rican says he is white and I say I am white, we are both talking English, but we sure ain't speaking the same language.

    Ron Unz once pointed out that Argentina and some of the other predominately white Latin nations under performed what ancestry alone would suggest, so maybe there’s something else going on? Why do mostly-white Latinos do so badly so often?
     
    CLEARLY there's something else going on. But do you think that Sailer or anyone else who seriously believes in HBD thinks otherwise? Even such a highly genetically-loaded trait as eye color still assumes certain inputs of water, oxygen, nutrients, etc. to achieve expression.

    Genetics might not explain why in the 20th century Argentina did so poorly in terms of standards of living while the U.S. did so well, but they sure might have something to do with the fact that Argentines in the U.S. do so systematically much better than Stateside Puerto Ricans. Of course, elite selection and education (but see below) no doubt play a major part, as well. Read on:

    The interesting thing is that Africans and Afro-Carribeans academically do a lot better than ancestry would suggest, both in the US and the UK. In places like New York City,black Jamaican kids are outperforming their white PR classmates substantially. HBD would never have predicted that.
     
    We've had this discussion before. First of all, as I stated above (and have repeated numerous times on these pages), no one serious believes in biological determinism anymore, which is what you appear to mean when you say "HBD." Second, the Africans who find their way onto U.S. shores are definitely NOT representative of the medians of their respective countries. You can't compare apples to oranges.

    Lastly, the Jamaican education system was put in place and the structural foundations laid by the British. Idem for American schools whose student bodies are predominantly black: if white, Anglo-Americans do not actually administer such schools, without their framework they would simply not exist in their present form. Puerto Ricans, on the other hand, set up their own education system, and have continued it with little attention or surveillance (due to the language barrier) from the U.S. government. If you put American blacks in a situation where they had little access to the pedagogical heritage of Anglo-American public schools, and had to start their own from scratch, you would likely see similar results.
    , @Anon
    Latins, like Greeks, lie, cheat, and leech too much.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    Ron Unz once pointed out that Argentina and some of the other predominately white Latin nations under performed what ancestry alone would suggest

     

    Argentina isn't white like Wisconsin. More like our lighter Hispanics. Argentinia isn't so bad. If you had to live in a South American country, which would you choose? Columbia? Venuzuelia? It would be high on the list.
    , @Perspective
    Probably because the average percentages are only given for the paternal line. From Wikipedia:
    "A recent study of Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) from 800 individuals found that patrilineal input, as indicated by the Y-chromosome, showed 66% of Puerto Ricans could trace their ancestry to male European ancestors, 18% could trace it to male African ancestors, and 16% could trace it to male Native American ancestors.[21] As for maternal DNA, 61.1% of those sampled were found as having Amerindian maternal mtDNA. This means that if a person could trace back in time from daughter to mother, she would eventually reach women who lived in Puerto Rico in Pre-Columbian time. The rest divides between 26.4% with female African ancestors and 12.5% with female European ancestors.[21] Both of these findings are consistent with the popular belief from historical record that male European immigrants took for themselves wives from among the native Indian and, later, black slave populations.[22]"
    , @JohnnyWalker123
    I have to correct myself.

    If US blacks are 1/5th white, then our "average" American might be around 10% black. If we factor in Afro-Latino ancestry, maybe 11% black. If PR is 20% black by ancestry, then that's about twice what we see in the U.S. That's substantial obviously, but that still doesn't fully explain PR's under performance.
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  74. I think these people look mostly white.

    PR seems like a fun country. Maybe too much play and too little work?

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    • Replies: @Robbie
    Those are probably paid models from the mainland and not representative of the actual Population which is really dark skinned.

    Puerto Rico is NOT 65% white, that's for sure.

    But ultimately I think there's a big difference between Brown White and Nordic White

    Sure, the first generation browning probably has only a slight IQ deficit compared to the white parent...and because white Americans up until this point were highly likely to marry back into the 'white' pool no one noticed the IQ drop...but over time Brown White starts to go to the Brown IQ of 90

    Steve readers need to travel more...because I don't consider any of those people in that video White.

    Americans are so cute because so many think they are white and I don't think they are white, but I don't have the heart to tell them :)

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  75. @JohnnyWalker123
    Puerto Ricans actually perform much worse than their racial admixture would suggest. Admixture studies show that PRs are half-white by ancestry, but they perform much worse than that. That tends to indicate that there's something cultural that really screws up the people.

    My vague impression is that Cuba got the more on-the-go sort of Spaniard, while Puerto Rico was considered a rural backwater.

    For example, in the 1920s, the world chess champion was a Cuban native, Capablanca.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Ra%C3%BAl_Capablanca

    My impression is that nobody at the time was particularly astonished that the world’s best chess player was from Cuba. It would be kind of like if he were an Argentinean.

    It will be interesting to find out how much human capital Cuba has left.

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    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    The great Capablanca-who may well have been the greatest chess player who ever lived- was a full blooded Spaniard. His father was a Spanish army officer who was then stationed in Cuba, which is why he was born in Havana. Saying "My impression is that nobody at the time was particularly astonished that the world’s best chess player was from Cuba." is senseless ; Capablanca is Cuban is the equivalent of saying Orwell and Kipling are Indian
    , @JohnnyWalker123
    Cuba has a homicide rate 0f just 5 per 100,000 and a life expectancy of 79.1 years (higher than the US), despite having a population with substantial African ancestry. So that's a good sign.
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  76. Jefferson says:

    Some patriotic White New Yorkers protested and stopped a bunch of vibrantly diverse Yoofs from fully burning the American flag in a Brooklyn public park. Some of these patriotic White Americans were bikers.

    The anti-American Yoofs also had signs that says Black Lives Matter. One of these dumb low IQ vibrantly diverse Yoofs said he is both a communist and a anarchist. Talk about an oxymoron, you can not have anarchism in a society controlled by a communist government because everybody is a slave to the state. There is no anarchy in North Korea because big brother there will put bullets in the heads of anybody who dares to protest the government.

    You a communist? Huh? How’d you like it, man? They tell you all the time what to do, what to think, what to feel. Do you wanna be like a sheep? Like all those other people? Baah! Baah!

    You wanna work eight, ten fucking hours? You own nothing, you got nothing! Do you want a chivato on every corner looking after you? Watching everything you do? Everything you say, man? Do you know I eat octopus three times a day? I got fucking octopus coming out of my fucking ears. I got the fuckin’ Russian shoes my feet’s comin’ through. How you like that?

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  77. Jefferson says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    I thought it more like half, but this newest study found that Puerto Ricans are 65% white, 12% Native, and 20% black. I assume maybe the remainder are Asian?

    So that'd imply that PR is ethnically pretty similar to the U.S. Their low test scores (and high rates of dysfunctional behaviors like illegitimacy, homicide, and welfare abuse) really can't be fully attributed to black ancestry, as previously theorized.

    I guess PR represents an example of a very low-performing, predominately white country. It'd be interesting to discern what went wrong. Ron Unz once pointed out that Argentina and some of the other predominately white Latin nations under performed what ancestry alone would suggest, so maybe there's something else going on? Why do mostly-white Latinos do so badly so often?

    The interesting thing is that Africans and Afro-Carribeans academically do a lot better than ancestry would suggest, both in the US and the UK. In places like New York City,black Jamaican kids are outperforming their white PR classmates substantially. HBD would never have predicted that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBbA9wXh4M

    “I thought it more like half, but this newest study found that Puerto Ricans are 65% white, 12% Native, and 20% black. I assume maybe the remainder are Asian?

    So that’d imply that PR is ethnically pretty similar to the U.S. Their low test scores (and high rates of dysfunctional behaviors like illegitimacy, homicide, and welfare abuse) really can’t be fully attributed to black ancestry, as previously theorized.”

    That is not the racial demographics of Puerto Rico, that is the genetic ancestry of the average Puerto Rican. The average Puerto Rican is genetically 20 percent Sub Saharan African. that 20 percent was certainly enough to have an affect on Puerto Rico being a mediocre society.

    “I guess PR represents an example of a very low-performing, predominately white country.”

    I think it is funny that you consider Puerto Ricans to be a White ethnic group, but consider Jews to be a Nonwhite Mixed Race group which you said in another iSteve blog where the topic was about race and IQ. Who is more likely to be considered People Of Color using Jim Crow’s one drop rule, Puerto Ricans or Jews?

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  78. Nico says:
    @Jefferson
    But according to the census, Puerto Rico is a 75 percent "White" island. Why do "White" Puerto Ricans perform so poorly in school? Puerto Rican "Whites" must be the dumbest "Whites" on the planet.

    A large percentage of Puerto Rican “whites” look curiously “mulatto.” But I’m sure you knew that.

    NB: white skin and even respectable IQ and literacy don’t preclude a country being a perpetual basket case, c.f. Argentina.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux
    Genes, culture, and physical environment each play a part.


    In terms of culture, well, Puerto Rico is Hispanic.And even European Hispanic culture has accomplished surprisingly little.Even Spain’s Golden Age was not all that golden when you compare it to what was going on in the rest of Western Europe.Spain from 1500-1650 was just keeping up (barely) with England, France, Italy, etc.Afterwards, it fell far behind ( cf Murray,Human Accomplishment, 338):

    Between 1650 and 1850-during the same two centuries when Britain, France, and Germany were producing hundreds of significant figures and even Italy in its decline produced several dozen-Spain produced a single major figure (Goya) and 11 significant figures.
     
    (Murray, Human Accomplishment , 338


    Physical environment: Tropical weather doesn't seem to be very conducive to mental and physical exertion (Ellsworth Huntington has great data on the relationship between climate and human productivity in Mainsprings of Civilization:https://archive.org/stream/MainspringsOfCivilization#page/n3/mode/2up


    Genes: And, of course, a strong infusion of Black ancestry doesn't help matters
    , @William BadWhite
    "NB: white skin and even respectable IQ and literacy don’t preclude a country being a perpetual basket case, c.f. Argentina."

    I had a professor who once remarked that "Argentina never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity"
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  79. Robbie says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBbA9wXh4M

    I think these people look mostly white.

    PR seems like a fun country. Maybe too much play and too little work?

    Those are probably paid models from the mainland and not representative of the actual Population which is really dark skinned.

    Puerto Rico is NOT 65% white, that’s for sure.

    But ultimately I think there’s a big difference between Brown White and Nordic White

    Sure, the first generation browning probably has only a slight IQ deficit compared to the white parent…and because white Americans up until this point were highly likely to marry back into the ‘white’ pool no one noticed the IQ drop…but over time Brown White starts to go to the Brown IQ of 90

    Steve readers need to travel more…because I don’t consider any of those people in that video White.

    Americans are so cute because so many think they are white and I don’t think they are white, but I don’t have the heart to tell them :)

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  80. Jefferson says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    I thought it more like half, but this newest study found that Puerto Ricans are 65% white, 12% Native, and 20% black. I assume maybe the remainder are Asian?

    So that'd imply that PR is ethnically pretty similar to the U.S. Their low test scores (and high rates of dysfunctional behaviors like illegitimacy, homicide, and welfare abuse) really can't be fully attributed to black ancestry, as previously theorized.

    I guess PR represents an example of a very low-performing, predominately white country. It'd be interesting to discern what went wrong. Ron Unz once pointed out that Argentina and some of the other predominately white Latin nations under performed what ancestry alone would suggest, so maybe there's something else going on? Why do mostly-white Latinos do so badly so often?

    The interesting thing is that Africans and Afro-Carribeans academically do a lot better than ancestry would suggest, both in the US and the UK. In places like New York City,black Jamaican kids are outperforming their white PR classmates substantially. HBD would never have predicted that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBbA9wXh4M

    “In places like New York City,black Jamaican kids are outperforming their white PR classmates”

    Hahahahaha, you have to be smoking that 420 if you believe most K-12 Puerto Ricans in New York City’s public schools are White.

    Here is what the typical phenotypes are of Puerto Rican kids in New York City’s urban inner city K-12 public schools. They don’t exactly racially look like the kids on Little House On The Prairie and Eight Is Enough.

    The very poor academic performance of Puerto Rican kids in New York City’s K-12 public schools is not because most of them are White trash, it is because most of them are People Of Color.

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    According to the study done on PR, the racial composition is about 2/3 white by ancestry. They may not look white, but maybe that's because lots of them are tanned from the sunny weather. Also, lots of Spanish people look ethnic.

    The point is that a country with 2/3 white ancestry shouldn't be under performing American blacks, if we use a purely HBD-based model. There must be a cultural component to their failure and perhaps a cultural component to the success of African and Jamaican immigrants.

    Of course, if performance can vary that much based on culture, it'd be interesting to deduce how much African and Latino under performance is based on culture. Is the 1.1
    standard deviation white-black gap a constant?

    I'd like answers to these questions.

    Ron Unz has argued extensively that Mexican under performance has more to do with culture than genetics.

    , @Al Alburquerque
    These children are mostly Dominican, not Puerto Rican. Any school in the Bronx is likely to be largely Dominican.

    In my experience, the comparison between Dominicans and Puerto Ricans in the US is roughly analagous to your comparison of the Uruguayan and Argentinian soccer teams. I have met white-looking Puerto Ricans, but I've met more white-looking Dominicans. But I've also met many black Dominicans, while Puerto Ricans are rarely completely black-looking. Both groups most often display a mulatto phenotype, but the Puerto Ricans tend to be lighter.
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  81. Nico says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    I thought it more like half, but this newest study found that Puerto Ricans are 65% white, 12% Native, and 20% black. I assume maybe the remainder are Asian?

    So that'd imply that PR is ethnically pretty similar to the U.S. Their low test scores (and high rates of dysfunctional behaviors like illegitimacy, homicide, and welfare abuse) really can't be fully attributed to black ancestry, as previously theorized.

    I guess PR represents an example of a very low-performing, predominately white country. It'd be interesting to discern what went wrong. Ron Unz once pointed out that Argentina and some of the other predominately white Latin nations under performed what ancestry alone would suggest, so maybe there's something else going on? Why do mostly-white Latinos do so badly so often?

    The interesting thing is that Africans and Afro-Carribeans academically do a lot better than ancestry would suggest, both in the US and the UK. In places like New York City,black Jamaican kids are outperforming their white PR classmates substantially. HBD would never have predicted that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBbA9wXh4M

    There’s so much here I don’t know where to start.

    … this newest study found that Puerto Ricans are 65% white, 12% Native, and 20% black.

    No doubt those figures are based on self-identification. How many Puerto Ricans have you actually seen, either Stateside or on the Island? Puerto Rico is a Latin American society where racial identity runs along a mestizo-mulatto spectrum, not a “one-drop” rule. To the extent that “one drop” EVER applies in the Caribbean, it is those with any appreciable European ancestry who discreetly identify as white – the opposite of how it is in America.

    When a Puerto Rican says he is white and I say I am white, we are both talking English, but we sure ain’t speaking the same language.

    Ron Unz once pointed out that Argentina and some of the other predominately white Latin nations under performed what ancestry alone would suggest, so maybe there’s something else going on? Why do mostly-white Latinos do so badly so often?

    CLEARLY there’s something else going on. But do you think that Sailer or anyone else who seriously believes in HBD thinks otherwise? Even such a highly genetically-loaded trait as eye color still assumes certain inputs of water, oxygen, nutrients, etc. to achieve expression.

    Genetics might not explain why in the 20th century Argentina did so poorly in terms of standards of living while the U.S. did so well, but they sure might have something to do with the fact that Argentines in the U.S. do so systematically much better than Stateside Puerto Ricans. Of course, elite selection and education (but see below) no doubt play a major part, as well. Read on:

    The interesting thing is that Africans and Afro-Carribeans academically do a lot better than ancestry would suggest, both in the US and the UK. In places like New York City,black Jamaican kids are outperforming their white PR classmates substantially. HBD would never have predicted that.

    We’ve had this discussion before. First of all, as I stated above (and have repeated numerous times on these pages), no one serious believes in biological determinism anymore, which is what you appear to mean when you say “HBD.” Second, the Africans who find their way onto U.S. shores are definitely NOT representative of the medians of their respective countries. You can’t compare apples to oranges.

    Lastly, the Jamaican education system was put in place and the structural foundations laid by the British. Idem for American schools whose student bodies are predominantly black: if white, Anglo-Americans do not actually administer such schools, without their framework they would simply not exist in their present form. Puerto Ricans, on the other hand, set up their own education system, and have continued it with little attention or surveillance (due to the language barrier) from the U.S. government. If you put American blacks in a situation where they had little access to the pedagogical heritage of Anglo-American public schools, and had to start their own from scratch, you would likely see similar results.

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    No doubt those figures are based on self-identification.
     
    No, those figures are based on testing. See the link from Truth.

    http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2014/07/25/genographic-project-dna-results-reveal-details-of-puerto-rican-history/

    Second, the Africans who find their way onto U.S. shores are definitely NOT representative of the medians of their respective countries. You can’t compare apples to oranges.

     

    Regression to the mean should've kicked in by the second/third generation, especially with the British Jamaicans.

    We do get lots of poor and uneducated African refugees from primitive places. From what I've seen, even their kids often do well. I couldn't quantify it though.

    Lastly, the Jamaican education system was put in place and the structural foundations laid by the British.

     

    The British left Jamaica a long time ago.

    Yet the Jamaican immigrant children are doing pretty well in NYC and London.
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  82. Jefferson says:

    Hey Johnny Walker, here are the phenotypes of the most wanted criminals in Puerto Rico.

    The phenotypes of the Puerto Rican street gang The Netas.

    Johnny Walker you still believe Puerto Rico is a dysfunctional high crime society because it’s supposed “Whiteness”? If that were true, why doesn’t Spain have these same social problems?

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123


    Hey Johnny Walker, here are the phenotypes of the most wanted criminals in Puerto Rico.

     

    They look like a tri-racial blend of white, black, and indigenous ancestry.

    If we assume a white-NAM criminality gap in PR, then we'd expect the average PR criminal to be less white than the average PR. PR has a homicide rate of 26/100,000, so that's a lot worse than ethnic makeup would predict.

    Those PR criminals do seem to have substantial white ancestry, which may imply the two points I'm trying to make:

    1. White PRs are doing quite badly too.
    2. PR is a predominately white country, with a substantial NAM component.

    Johnny Walker you still believe Puerto Rico is a dysfunctional high crime society because it’s supposed “Whiteness”
     
    \

    No, but I believe that PR whites are extreme under performers.

    If that were true, why doesn’t Spain have these same social problems?
     
    Good question. I'd like an answer to that too.

    84% white Uruguay has similar under performance issues.
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  83. Clyde says:
    @Truth
    That was a study I read some years ago, I searched for it and couldn't find it. It may be that I got it wrong. It now seems that now the studies indicate much more mixed heritage.

    The average Puerto Rican individual carries 12% Native American, 65% West Eurasian (Mediterranean, Northern European and/or Middle Eastern) and 20% Sub-Saharan African DNA.

    http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2014/07/25/genographic-project-dna-results-reveal-details-of-puerto-rican-history/

    Our Genographic team learned some key pieces of information that helped us gain more insight into the peopling of the Caribbean. Most surprisingly, we found that roughly 60% of Puerto Ricans carry maternal lineages of Native American origin. Native American ancestry, higher than nearly any other Caribbean island, originated from groups migrating to Puerto Rico from both South and Central America. Analysis of the Y Chromosome DNA found that no Puerto Rican men (0%) carried indigenous paternal lineages, while more than 80% were West Eurasian (or European).

    The average Puerto Rican individual carries 12% Native American…

    Good link there but my own take from encountering Puerto Ricans is the Amerindian component is 40%-50%. Going against the scientific DNA analysis. All were pleasant people.
    One guy put in 35 years with the NYC Parks Department. So had a great pension and had great gardening skills in his retirement years. His Puerto Rican wife looked pure European while he looked half Taino/ He had macho pride about getting up on his ladder and working on his roof leaks at age 75. People begged him to desist but that’s not what killed him. He got run over by an idiot driver on a drizzly day. My own (prejudiced) take is the driver was a female immigrant but I have no proof. I must ask someone who might know. He was a great guy and full of common sense. If he were alive, for sure I would be asking him about roof repair.

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  84. Jefferson says:
    @Realist
    What percent of the 'white' population has black genetics?

    “What percent of the ‘white’ population has black genetics?”

    Frank Sweet is a Puerto Rican guy who is the moderator of a discussion board called “The Study Of Racialism”. He said he is considered “White” in Puerto Rico even though a AncestryByDNA result revealed that he is 13 percent Sub Saharan African, basically an Octoroon.

    He said the result did not shock him because his Puerto Rican family have a broad range of different skin colors and hair textures. He said his family is similar to that of a Louisiana Creole
    family who are also known for having a broad range of different phenotypes. Puerto Ricans are basically like Spanish speaking versions of Louisiana Creoles. Both groups are racially ambiguous mystery meat.

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    • Replies: @Realist
    The answer to my question: The vast majority.
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  85. syonredux says:
    @Nico
    A large percentage of Puerto Rican "whites" look curiously "mulatto." But I'm sure you knew that.

    NB: white skin and even respectable IQ and literacy don't preclude a country being a perpetual basket case, c.f. Argentina.

    Genes, culture, and physical environment each play a part.

    In terms of culture, well, Puerto Rico is Hispanic.And even European Hispanic culture has accomplished surprisingly little.Even Spain’s Golden Age was not all that golden when you compare it to what was going on in the rest of Western Europe.Spain from 1500-1650 was just keeping up (barely) with England, France, Italy, etc.Afterwards, it fell far behind ( cf Murray,Human Accomplishment, 338):

    Between 1650 and 1850-during the same two centuries when Britain, France, and Germany were producing hundreds of significant figures and even Italy in its decline produced several dozen-Spain produced a single major figure (Goya) and 11 significant figures.

    (Murray, Human Accomplishment , 338

    Physical environment: Tropical weather doesn’t seem to be very conducive to mental and physical exertion (Ellsworth Huntington has great data on the relationship between climate and human productivity in Mainsprings of Civilization:https://archive.org/stream/MainspringsOfCivilization#page/n3/mode/2up

    Genes: And, of course, a strong infusion of Black ancestry doesn’t help matters

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    • Replies: @Nico

    Genes, culture, and physical environment each play a part.
     
    Bingo. Most critiques of HBD thought-paradigms seem to assume, wrongly, that such thinking is biodeterminist. As I've said before, it is much easier to knock down a caricature than to face facts.
    , @iSteveFan

    Even Spain’s Golden Age was not all that golden when you compare it to what was going on in the rest of Western Europe.Spain from 1500-1650 was just keeping up (barely) with England, France, ...
     
    Syon, I understand what you are trying to communicate, but the issue of significant figures during that time period is a metric that we have created that quite possibly doesn't align with the metrics of success used then . I imagine if we could all travel back in time to 1500, France England and other Northern Euros would have envied the Spanish for being able to colonize so much of the New World. All of them were continually fighting and jockeying for a prize piece of the New World. I am sure any Northern Euro nation at that time would have given its proverbial left nut for what Spain had, and not felt secure in the fact they at least had smarter people. That knowledge might have made it harder to accept Spain's success all the more.
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  86. syonredux says:

    RE: Argentina,

    It’s important to note that its Whites are not as purely European as Whites in the USA:

    PLoS ONE has another article up about admixture in Argentina. The interesting aspect is that in its self-conception Argentina, like the United States of America or Australia, is a European settler nation, and therefore unlike Mexico, Boliva, or Brazil, each of whom de jure or de facto espouse a multicultural and multiracial identity. Buenos Ares is in its mentality more a Southern European city situated in the antipodes, with a touch of old Mitteleuropa (Argentines are avid consumers of psychoanalysis). As noted in the PLoS article, ~1 percent of the citizens of Argentina identify as indigenous, but ~20 percent of the ancestry of Argentina’s population seems to derive from Amerindian sources! The paper itself adds little new here. Rather, it increases the sample size, and confirms that the Amerindian ancestry does seem to be lower in Buenos Ares, the magnet for so much Italian immigration.

    But what is most interesting, though not necessarily surprising, is that of those Argentines who claim four European grandparents (N = 22), the average proportion of European ancestry was 91 percent. The issue here is that an individual who claims four European grandparents should have close to 100 percent European ancestry. So what’s going on? First, I think the use of ancestrally informative markers is probably introducing noise; we can’t be sure that there won’t be residual “non-European” ancestry even in Europeans. Second, the respondents might be honest about what they know, but their grandparents may have not told them the whole truth about their backgrounds With a standard deviation of 9 percent I’m pretty sure that some of these 22 individuals do have substantial non-European ancestry. I don’t think ancestrally informative markers would be off that far.

    For me the key fact to observe is that if you drew 22 random white (non-Hispanic) Americans you are almost certainly to get no more than a few percent non-European ancestry at most. If you selected Americans who claimed 4 European born grandparents there would be almost no non-European ancestry. Over the past year and a half I have done deeper analyses of friends who have received genotypes from 23andMe. These results align with what I’ve observed. White Americans generally look in vain for Native American ancestry. In contrast, white Latin Americans tend to have substantial non-European ancestry. And intriguingly it seems that many have unknown African ancestry. This highlights the difference between the settlement of Anglo-America, and Latin America. The demographic replacement of Amerindians in Anglo-America was radical and extreme. In contrast, even in self-consciously European settler regions such as South American’s southern cone a substantial proportion of Amerindian ancestry is present in contemporary populations. Because of the large number of Native Americans of mixed heritage it is likely that total Native American identified population is actually very similar to the amount of non-Hispanic Native American ancestry in the USA (i.e., numerous non-Native American identified whites and blacks with small quanta of ancestry will sum to be about the same absolute amount as the small number of Native Americans who are substantially indigenous). While 1.5 percent of Argentines identify as indigenous, 1 percent of Americans are Native American.

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/04/the-anglosphere-exception/#.VZUhVxtViko

    We investigated the bio-geographic ancestry of Argentineans, and quantified their genetic admixture, analyzing 246 unrelated male individuals from eight provinces of three Argentinean regions using ancestry-sensitive DNA markers (ASDM) from autosomal, Y and mitochondrial chromosomes. Our results demonstrate that European, Native American and African ancestry components were detectable in the contemporary Argentineans, the amounts depending on the genetic system applied, exhibiting large inter-individual heterogeneity. Argentineans carried a large fraction of European genetic heritage in their Y-chromosomal (94.1%) and autosomal (78.5%) DNA, but their mitochondrial gene pool is mostly of Native American ancestry (53.7%); instead, African heritage was small in all three genetic systems (<4%). Population substructure in Argentina considering the eight sampled provinces was very small based on autosomal (0.92% of total variation was between provincial groups, p = 0.005) and mtDNA (1.77%, p = 0.005) data (none with NRY data), and all three genetic systems revealed no substructure when clustering the provinces into the three geographic regions to which they belong. The complex genetic ancestry picture detected in Argentineans underscores the need to apply ASDM from all three genetic systems to infer geographic origins and genetic admixture. This applies to all worldwide areas where people with different continental ancestry live geographically close together.

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/12/how-argentina-became-white/#.VZUiXxtViko

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    Argentinian national soccer team had zero blond haired players during the 2014 World Cup, but at the same time they also had zero Black players. Interestingly Uruguay's 2014 World Cup national soccer team was both Blacker and at the same time blonder than the Argentinian national soccer. I remember seeing both a blond haired player and Black player on the Uruguayan team. I saw none of those on the Argentinian team.
    , @Jack D
    You see this in a lot of Latin American countries, but Argentina is extreme because their national character runs to fantasy. So an Argentine might see himself as a "European" even if when he looks in the mirror he sees a short brownish sort of guy (and that's what the Argentine masses look like, esp. outside of Buenos Aires).

    It is ironic that white Americans often invent Amerindian ancestry when none exists (this even predates the current fad for transracialism), while Argentines deny their very real and significant ancestry. In old Virginy it was the subject of boasting, not shame, if you could say that you had a little Pocahontas in your family tree, but in Argentina where people have more than a little Indian in them they pretend that they don't have any. Because indigenous people were largely wiped out in the Eastern US, it was possible to imagine a fantasy version of them as noble warriors of whom you would be proud to be descended, instead of poor, smelly native women that you slept with because you didn't have enough status to get a European wife.

    The general pattern in Latin America is that the population is the product of male Europeans mating with indigenous females. This also appears to be the origin of Ashkenazi Jews in Europe, but the Jews got the better deal since European genes appear to have improved their intelligence.

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  87. Big Bill says:
    @Former Darfur
    Felons can’t own guns. Probably everybody that legally can already has one in black neighborhoods.

    Approximately everyone, felon or not, in black neighborhoods have guns, unless they are on some particularly strict parole or probation where their crib can be searched any time. Since so many black males ( and quite a few black females) are legally proscribed, though, they can't exactly go down to the local shooting range to shoot legally, which means their skills are especially poor and that blacks are especially prone to letting off a few rounds somewhere when they think that they can get away with it. Having poorer judgment than adult whites, this occasionally leads to tragedy.

    I have a female (white) co-worker who moonlights in the firearms department of a big box sporting gear and outdoorsey chain. She sells guns, quite legally from her (and the store's) standpoint, to far more black females than black males. The black women are usually coached well enough to give no visible indications of the dread "straw man purchase", although some do slip up and the errant woman is told to go away. That's all. She then realizes her error or is coached some more in 'the community' and goes to the other location a week later and gets "her" gun. The ATF is not especially interested in busting underclass black women for this offense unless her man does something extraordinarily egregious: for one thing, the ATF knows that in federal court any moderately competent attorney can load the jury with blacks who will nullify with extreme prejudice. Whereas very few Whites will do so for a white gun defendant.

    Blacks do tend not to care very well for their firearms and if they break will often just toss them out and go buy another. For one thing, if you are a felon you'd be very dumb to go to a gunsmith shop since you have to be recorded in his log book.


    Although gun laws are not very effective at keeping blacks from possessing firearms (and, in fact, I support the right of blacks to own firearms with no less intensity than anyone else: after all they have even more need to defend themselves) they do keep blacks from carrying them around all the time.

    Approximately everyone, felon or not, in black neighborhoods have guns, 

    So true. 100 years ago maybe 50 people a year in the entire USA were lynched.

    To fight this scourge, Ida B. Wells (that tireless crusader for black folks) said that “a Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every black home”.

    Flash forward 100 years to 2015. 50 dead black folks is a typical toll not for a year, but for a single weekend. Black folks aren’t fools. They know their men and boys are killing them and they refuse to live unarmed in the hood.

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  88. Jefferson says:

    If Puerto Rico truly was a predominantly White island, they would be as culturally and economically prosperous as other first world islands like Singapore, Great Britain, Ireland, and Hong Kong. Hong Kong has more millionaires per capita than The United States. What positive statistic can Puerto Rico brag about?

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    • Replies: @Truth
    Ireland is economically prosperous?
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  89. Merema says:

    In my decades of living in NY, I have yet to meet a high achieving Puerto Rican, whereas I have met many from the English speaking Black Caribbean. My suite mates in college were from Puerto Ricans from east Harlem, and they were very sweet, gentle girls, but they were basically illiterate after 12 years in the NYC school system. I used to feel sorry for them-they would show me their exam papers highlighted with contemptuous remarks from their professors.

    I think they ended up as nurse’s aides.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Your world must be very small, then.
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  90. PR? Incredibly corrupt place. I believe this accounts in part for their poverty, although it could be the same factor producing their poverty produces their corruption. Same thing as in Ukraine. Incredibly corrupt. From top to bottom.

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  91. Jefferson says:
    @syonredux
    RE: Argentina,

    It's important to note that its Whites are not as purely European as Whites in the USA:

    PLoS ONE has another article up about admixture in Argentina. The interesting aspect is that in its self-conception Argentina, like the United States of America or Australia, is a European settler nation, and therefore unlike Mexico, Boliva, or Brazil, each of whom de jure or de facto espouse a multicultural and multiracial identity. Buenos Ares is in its mentality more a Southern European city situated in the antipodes, with a touch of old Mitteleuropa (Argentines are avid consumers of psychoanalysis). As noted in the PLoS article, ~1 percent of the citizens of Argentina identify as indigenous, but ~20 percent of the ancestry of Argentina’s population seems to derive from Amerindian sources! The paper itself adds little new here. Rather, it increases the sample size, and confirms that the Amerindian ancestry does seem to be lower in Buenos Ares, the magnet for so much Italian immigration.


    But what is most interesting, though not necessarily surprising, is that of those Argentines who claim four European grandparents (N = 22), the average proportion of European ancestry was 91 percent. The issue here is that an individual who claims four European grandparents should have close to 100 percent European ancestry. So what’s going on? First, I think the use of ancestrally informative markers is probably introducing noise; we can’t be sure that there won’t be residual “non-European” ancestry even in Europeans. Second, the respondents might be honest about what they know, but their grandparents may have not told them the whole truth about their backgrounds With a standard deviation of 9 percent I’m pretty sure that some of these 22 individuals do have substantial non-European ancestry. I don’t think ancestrally informative markers would be off that far.

    For me the key fact to observe is that if you drew 22 random white (non-Hispanic) Americans you are almost certainly to get no more than a few percent non-European ancestry at most. If you selected Americans who claimed 4 European born grandparents there would be almost no non-European ancestry. Over the past year and a half I have done deeper analyses of friends who have received genotypes from 23andMe. These results align with what I’ve observed. White Americans generally look in vain for Native American ancestry. In contrast, white Latin Americans tend to have substantial non-European ancestry. And intriguingly it seems that many have unknown African ancestry. This highlights the difference between the settlement of Anglo-America, and Latin America. The demographic replacement of Amerindians in Anglo-America was radical and extreme. In contrast, even in self-consciously European settler regions such as South American’s southern cone a substantial proportion of Amerindian ancestry is present in contemporary populations. Because of the large number of Native Americans of mixed heritage it is likely that total Native American identified population is actually very similar to the amount of non-Hispanic Native American ancestry in the USA (i.e., numerous non-Native American identified whites and blacks with small quanta of ancestry will sum to be about the same absolute amount as the small number of Native Americans who are substantially indigenous). While 1.5 percent of Argentines identify as indigenous, 1 percent of Americans are Native American.

     

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/04/the-anglosphere-exception/#.VZUhVxtViko

    We investigated the bio-geographic ancestry of Argentineans, and quantified their genetic admixture, analyzing 246 unrelated male individuals from eight provinces of three Argentinean regions using ancestry-sensitive DNA markers (ASDM) from autosomal, Y and mitochondrial chromosomes. Our results demonstrate that European, Native American and African ancestry components were detectable in the contemporary Argentineans, the amounts depending on the genetic system applied, exhibiting large inter-individual heterogeneity. Argentineans carried a large fraction of European genetic heritage in their Y-chromosomal (94.1%) and autosomal (78.5%) DNA, but their mitochondrial gene pool is mostly of Native American ancestry (53.7%); instead, African heritage was small in all three genetic systems (<4%). Population substructure in Argentina considering the eight sampled provinces was very small based on autosomal (0.92% of total variation was between provincial groups, p = 0.005) and mtDNA (1.77%, p = 0.005) data (none with NRY data), and all three genetic systems revealed no substructure when clustering the provinces into the three geographic regions to which they belong. The complex genetic ancestry picture detected in Argentineans underscores the need to apply ASDM from all three genetic systems to infer geographic origins and genetic admixture. This applies to all worldwide areas where people with different continental ancestry live geographically close together.
     
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/12/how-argentina-became-white/#.VZUiXxtViko

    Argentinian national soccer team had zero blond haired players during the 2014 World Cup, but at the same time they also had zero Black players. Interestingly Uruguay’s 2014 World Cup national soccer team was both Blacker and at the same time blonder than the Argentinian national soccer. I remember seeing both a blond haired player and Black player on the Uruguayan team. I saw none of those on the Argentinian team.

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  92. Culture may have a impact. R- ”strategy” culture can reduce effort and intelligence if educational scores need constant watch.

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  93. bigboy says:
    @attilathehen
    90% of Puerto Ricans have black ancestry. That is the reason for low iqs. Geraldo Rivera may have had a white Puerto Rican father (his mother is Ashkenazi Jewish). Frankie Muniz's father was most likely a white Puerto Rican too. This accounts for the higher iq. Puerto Ricans like Rosie Perez, Jennifer Lopez, Rita Moreno, Jimmy Smits, Luis Guzman have black ancestry.

    Allegedly Geraldo Rivera’s father has some African ancestry. I’ve heard from a reliable Puerto Rican source that Gerlado has claimed to have a black grandfather or great-grandfather on his Puerto Rican side. Not sure how true this is. His father may have Amerindian anestry as well. There’s an Amerindian component to Puerto Ricans

    Most Puerto Ricans aren’t black, but if 90% of Puerto Ricans have African ancestry (do you have a source for this assertion), then that 90% would include people who are predominantly European in appearance and ancestry.

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    • Replies: @attilathehen
    I've heard that claim about Geraldo also and some black grandfather. The Amerindian in Puerto Ricans is tiny and of little importance. The black African aspect is what dominates their culture and race. I've known several PRs over my life and from physical appearance alone they fall into a 90% black looking or 10% white (Ricky Martin types). In several history books I've read about Latin American countries, the 90% black ancestry was used for PRs. Another fact is how many PR-Jewish hybrids there are in New York City. The PR ascendancy is bizarre considering how many of the PRs (Jennifer Lopez, Jimmy Smits, Rita Moreno are black). But Jennifer Lopez has a sister married to a Jew, Rita Moreno's husband is Jewish. Freddie Prinze and Freddie Prinze Jr. (married to Sarah Michelle Gellar - Jewish) are PR and Jewish. Geraldo Rivera's mother is Jewish. I have noticed this pattern - Jewish- PR- black Americans and now Asians for 20 years now. Geraldo Rivera's mother has given him a slight iq advantage, but he is nothing special. Also, he now considers himself Jewish.
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  94. Obligatory – Bob and Cedric, the Puerto Ricans from Seinfeld

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  95. JayMan says: • Website

    Results this abysmal can’t solely be an HBD problem … this has to also be due to a corrupt and incompetent education system in Puerto Rico.

    Which makes it an HBD problem. :). There’s more to HBD than IQ, yes?

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  96. Svigor says:

    that Hi-Octane Siesta’s name is pronounced differently than the way I’d assumed.

    Is “Tennessee Coates” anywhere in the ballpark?

    Approximately everyone, felon or not, in black neighborhoods have guns, unless they are on some particularly strict parole or probation where their crib can be searched any time. Since so many black males ( and quite a few black females) are legally proscribed, though, they can’t exactly go down to the local shooting range to shoot legally, which means their skills are especially poor and that blacks are especially prone to letting off a few rounds somewhere when they think that they can get away with it. Having poorer judgment than adult whites, this occasionally leads to tragedy.

    I read a long, detailed post once by a police blogger who made the argument that gang-bangers get at least as much practice with firearms as cops do. More, in some cases. He was probably focusing on a fairly narrow criminal demographic, though. It’s well known that the skinnies can’t shoot for shit.

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  97. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Now that Jews are bragging about it, owning it, flaunting it, and celebrating it as their baby, shouldn’t the main theme of ‘gay marriage’ issue be that US is dominated by Jewish power and Jews did it for their own tribal interest?

    The alliance of two subversive minority elites.

    Jews are coming out of the closet as the Hidden Hand of American politics and trends.

    Let’s face up to it.

    http://www.tikkun.org/nextgen/how-jews-brought-america-to-the-tipping-point-on-marriage-equality-lessons-for-the-next-social-justice-issues

    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Jewish-groups-celebrate-Supreme-Courts-legalization-of-gay-marriage-nationwide-407269

    http://forward.com/opinion/310988/the-jewish-lesson-of-supreme-courts-gay-marriage-ruling/

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  98. Nico says:
    @syonredux
    Genes, culture, and physical environment each play a part.


    In terms of culture, well, Puerto Rico is Hispanic.And even European Hispanic culture has accomplished surprisingly little.Even Spain’s Golden Age was not all that golden when you compare it to what was going on in the rest of Western Europe.Spain from 1500-1650 was just keeping up (barely) with England, France, Italy, etc.Afterwards, it fell far behind ( cf Murray,Human Accomplishment, 338):

    Between 1650 and 1850-during the same two centuries when Britain, France, and Germany were producing hundreds of significant figures and even Italy in its decline produced several dozen-Spain produced a single major figure (Goya) and 11 significant figures.
     
    (Murray, Human Accomplishment , 338


    Physical environment: Tropical weather doesn't seem to be very conducive to mental and physical exertion (Ellsworth Huntington has great data on the relationship between climate and human productivity in Mainsprings of Civilization:https://archive.org/stream/MainspringsOfCivilization#page/n3/mode/2up


    Genes: And, of course, a strong infusion of Black ancestry doesn't help matters

    Genes, culture, and physical environment each play a part.

    Bingo. Most critiques of HBD thought-paradigms seem to assume, wrongly, that such thinking is biodeterminist. As I’ve said before, it is much easier to knock down a caricature than to face facts.

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  99. OT, or, maybe always on-topic:

    http://therightstuff.biz/2015/07/01/the-future-belongs-to-right-wing-internet-trolls/

    Feel you can’t do anything? Drop truth bombs in comments sections.

    > A recent study found that exposure to prejudiced online comments can increase people’s prejudice and increase the likelihood that they’ll leave prejudiced comments themselves.

    The link is a nice history of recent internet battles if nothing else. TRS present as ultra right wing, but I think that’s mostly play and impotent rage.

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  100. @Clifford Brown
    OT-

    Is Violence a Function of our Culture?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytt1j_7TImU

    At the Aspen Institute, Premiere American public intellectual Ta-Nehisi Coates discusses urban violence in America with New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu. Hosted by Jeffrey Goldberg.

    Mayor Landrieu seems like a sincere, stand-up guy. Coates argues at 43:00 point that there is nothing that the Black community needs to do to address violence. At 53:00 minute, Coates claims that if he was appointed "King" his only policy change would be to release all violent criminals from the prisons. His main contribution to the discussion is to announce that he is Black.

    So there is nothing that Blacks could do to reduce violence and the best policy solution to urban violence is to release everyone from the prisons. This is where the intellectual Left is at this point.

    TNC spent all his time either whining about how horrible it was that he had to do mundane things like get dressed and go to school or excusing negro criminality. He admitted that negroes committed far more crime against themselves than the Klan ever did, but claims negro crime is only because of white actions in the past. It was revealing when he admitted that his father (!) experienced the same or greater violence in the negro community as a child in Philly. This isn’t new – it defines the negro experience.

    I’d never listened to TNC before and had never been able to read through his incomprehensible screeds. I managed this only because Landrieu was interesting. The message I came away with is that white liberals want to “fix” the negro violence problem and that negroes don’t regard it as a problem in need of fixing. TNC even wants to let all the violent convicts (negro only I’m sure) out of prison. Preaching about personal responsibility to negroes is a waste of air, but if it keeps the leftists busy that’s ok. Negro violence isn’t going to stop. We may as well demand that Jews stop being argumentative or Italians stop moving their hands while talking. And the more you try to discuss problems in negro communities, the more defensive and angry negroes get – eventually you’ll provoke the very negro violence you want to end.

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  101. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @JohnnyWalker123
    I thought it more like half, but this newest study found that Puerto Ricans are 65% white, 12% Native, and 20% black. I assume maybe the remainder are Asian?

    So that'd imply that PR is ethnically pretty similar to the U.S. Their low test scores (and high rates of dysfunctional behaviors like illegitimacy, homicide, and welfare abuse) really can't be fully attributed to black ancestry, as previously theorized.

    I guess PR represents an example of a very low-performing, predominately white country. It'd be interesting to discern what went wrong. Ron Unz once pointed out that Argentina and some of the other predominately white Latin nations under performed what ancestry alone would suggest, so maybe there's something else going on? Why do mostly-white Latinos do so badly so often?

    The interesting thing is that Africans and Afro-Carribeans academically do a lot better than ancestry would suggest, both in the US and the UK. In places like New York City,black Jamaican kids are outperforming their white PR classmates substantially. HBD would never have predicted that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBbA9wXh4M

    Latins, like Greeks, lie, cheat, and leech too much.

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  102. eah says:

    …corrupt and incompetent education system in Puerto Rico.

    It just so happens that PR is in a big financial hole primarily due to unfunded public employee pension obligations. Including for teachers.

    Puerto Rico government stumbles on teacher pension reform

    They may not have been very good at actual teaching, but they apparently knew how to negotiate a nice pension.

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  103. Read More
    • Replies: @Luke Lea
    OT: “US police killings headed for 1,100 this year, with black Americans twice as likely to die.”

    According to Heather MacDonald:

    "The black percentage of suspects killed by the police, historically around 29%, is lower than one would expect based on the best available data on those who represent a mortal threat to the police, according to Gary Kleck, a criminologist at Florida State University.

    In 2013, for example, blacks made up 42% of all cop killers whose race was known, even though they are only 13% of the nation’s population."

    http://goo.gl/WwVj5e

    Also:

    "Black cops have shot black suspects at essentially the same rate as white cops"

    http://goo.gl/Aw83dn
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  104. iSteveFan says:
    @syonredux
    Genes, culture, and physical environment each play a part.


    In terms of culture, well, Puerto Rico is Hispanic.And even European Hispanic culture has accomplished surprisingly little.Even Spain’s Golden Age was not all that golden when you compare it to what was going on in the rest of Western Europe.Spain from 1500-1650 was just keeping up (barely) with England, France, Italy, etc.Afterwards, it fell far behind ( cf Murray,Human Accomplishment, 338):

    Between 1650 and 1850-during the same two centuries when Britain, France, and Germany were producing hundreds of significant figures and even Italy in its decline produced several dozen-Spain produced a single major figure (Goya) and 11 significant figures.
     
    (Murray, Human Accomplishment , 338


    Physical environment: Tropical weather doesn't seem to be very conducive to mental and physical exertion (Ellsworth Huntington has great data on the relationship between climate and human productivity in Mainsprings of Civilization:https://archive.org/stream/MainspringsOfCivilization#page/n3/mode/2up


    Genes: And, of course, a strong infusion of Black ancestry doesn't help matters

    Even Spain’s Golden Age was not all that golden when you compare it to what was going on in the rest of Western Europe.Spain from 1500-1650 was just keeping up (barely) with England, France, …

    Syon, I understand what you are trying to communicate, but the issue of significant figures during that time period is a metric that we have created that quite possibly doesn’t align with the metrics of success used then . I imagine if we could all travel back in time to 1500, France England and other Northern Euros would have envied the Spanish for being able to colonize so much of the New World. All of them were continually fighting and jockeying for a prize piece of the New World. I am sure any Northern Euro nation at that time would have given its proverbial left nut for what Spain had, and not felt secure in the fact they at least had smarter people. That knowledge might have made it harder to accept Spain’s success all the more.

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    The Industrial Revolution was a real game changer. Mao said that power comes from the barrel of a gun and after the Industrial Revolution, those countries that took part in it suddenly had a lot more gun barrels than countries that mostly missed it. Spain lost most of its possessions due to local revolutions in the 19th century and the US just swept up the rest (including Puerto Rico) in the Spanish American War.

    Wealth that comes from the ground usually leads to a corrupt society that does not value education, achievement or hard work. We see this in the oil nations today. Spanish wealth also came from the ground in the form of gold and silver from the Americas.

    These places turned out to be more trouble than they were worth for the US, which is often the case in colonial adventures. Colonialism is often very profitable in the short run, but has anyone ever been able to make it pay in the long run? It only works, as in the SW US, if you clear out the native population and settle the area with your own people (and those people stay loyal and don't decide to form a new national identity). This works best when the conquered area is contiguous with the mother country. Even Australia and Canada, which stayed loyal for a long time, eventually sought independence.
    , @syonredux

    Syon, I understand what you are trying to communicate, but the issue of significant figures during that time period is a metric that we have created that quite possibly doesn’t align with the metrics of success used then .
     
    I'm afraid that I don't use "culture-neutral" PC standards when it comes to judging human accomplishment in the arts and the sciences.Take a gander at the maps for significant figures in the arts and sciences in Europe during the period 1400-1600 on page 301 of Murray's Human Accomplishment.That's the Golden Age, yet the Iberian Peninsula is a vast white blank (well, there are a few dots here and there) when compared to Italy, the Low Countries, England, etc.1600-1800 (302) and 1800-1950 (303) are even more telling.No, compared to Europe's big four (Italy, France, Germany, Britain), the Iberian Peninsula is the dumb Dora of Western Europe.
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  105. Realist says:
    @Clyde
    way way way OT:

    "Former Iowa State University scientist Dong-Pyou Han, 58, who altered blood samples to make it seem like he made progress in HIV vaccine will spend 4 and half years behind bars.Cho's team began receiving NIH funding, and he soon reported the vaccine was causing rabbits to develop antibodies to HIV, which was considered a major breakthrough. Han said he initially accidentally mixed human blood with rabbit blood making the potential vaccine appear to increase an immune defense against HIV, the virus that can cause AIDS."
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3146788/Ex-Iowa-State-University-scientist-gets-four-years-prison-altering-research-HIV-vaccine-mixing-RABBIT-blood-human-blood.html
     

    He started his bullshit at Case Western Reserve University .

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  106. Jack D says:
    @Steve Sailer
    My impression is that Italian violence tends to be rather selective and planned out. Michael Corleone brooding for two hours about Fredo becoming a liability to the family gives some of the flavor.

    There is a reason why they used to call it “Organized Crime”. There are some organized black crime gangs but most black crime is “Disorganized Crime”.

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  107. JimB says:
    @Jefferson
    "What sort of jobs do Puerto Ricans resident in the USA do?"

    The ones who are not on welfare usually have government jobs.

    Like Sonia Sotomayor. I don’t think she worked for private law firm paycheck in her life.

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  108. George says:
    @Ed
    I recently read that Puerto Ricans utilize private schools at the highest rate in the country. Evidently the high utilization goes all the way down to the poor. So the public school students are probably the lowest of the low.

    There are over 44 universities, 1530 public schools and 570 private schools, with most located in the capital, San Juan.

    http://livinginpuertorico.com/best-private-schools/

    What are the SAT and college board results for PR?

    NAEP test seems only to be given in public school

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Puerto_Rico

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  109. Jack D says:
    @iSteveFan

    Even Spain’s Golden Age was not all that golden when you compare it to what was going on in the rest of Western Europe.Spain from 1500-1650 was just keeping up (barely) with England, France, ...
     
    Syon, I understand what you are trying to communicate, but the issue of significant figures during that time period is a metric that we have created that quite possibly doesn't align with the metrics of success used then . I imagine if we could all travel back in time to 1500, France England and other Northern Euros would have envied the Spanish for being able to colonize so much of the New World. All of them were continually fighting and jockeying for a prize piece of the New World. I am sure any Northern Euro nation at that time would have given its proverbial left nut for what Spain had, and not felt secure in the fact they at least had smarter people. That knowledge might have made it harder to accept Spain's success all the more.

    The Industrial Revolution was a real game changer. Mao said that power comes from the barrel of a gun and after the Industrial Revolution, those countries that took part in it suddenly had a lot more gun barrels than countries that mostly missed it. Spain lost most of its possessions due to local revolutions in the 19th century and the US just swept up the rest (including Puerto Rico) in the Spanish American War.

    Wealth that comes from the ground usually leads to a corrupt society that does not value education, achievement or hard work. We see this in the oil nations today. Spanish wealth also came from the ground in the form of gold and silver from the Americas.

    These places turned out to be more trouble than they were worth for the US, which is often the case in colonial adventures. Colonialism is often very profitable in the short run, but has anyone ever been able to make it pay in the long run? It only works, as in the SW US, if you clear out the native population and settle the area with your own people (and those people stay loyal and don’t decide to form a new national identity). This works best when the conquered area is contiguous with the mother country. Even Australia and Canada, which stayed loyal for a long time, eventually sought independence.

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  110. Jack D says:
    @syonredux
    RE: Argentina,

    It's important to note that its Whites are not as purely European as Whites in the USA:

    PLoS ONE has another article up about admixture in Argentina. The interesting aspect is that in its self-conception Argentina, like the United States of America or Australia, is a European settler nation, and therefore unlike Mexico, Boliva, or Brazil, each of whom de jure or de facto espouse a multicultural and multiracial identity. Buenos Ares is in its mentality more a Southern European city situated in the antipodes, with a touch of old Mitteleuropa (Argentines are avid consumers of psychoanalysis). As noted in the PLoS article, ~1 percent of the citizens of Argentina identify as indigenous, but ~20 percent of the ancestry of Argentina’s population seems to derive from Amerindian sources! The paper itself adds little new here. Rather, it increases the sample size, and confirms that the Amerindian ancestry does seem to be lower in Buenos Ares, the magnet for so much Italian immigration.


    But what is most interesting, though not necessarily surprising, is that of those Argentines who claim four European grandparents (N = 22), the average proportion of European ancestry was 91 percent. The issue here is that an individual who claims four European grandparents should have close to 100 percent European ancestry. So what’s going on? First, I think the use of ancestrally informative markers is probably introducing noise; we can’t be sure that there won’t be residual “non-European” ancestry even in Europeans. Second, the respondents might be honest about what they know, but their grandparents may have not told them the whole truth about their backgrounds With a standard deviation of 9 percent I’m pretty sure that some of these 22 individuals do have substantial non-European ancestry. I don’t think ancestrally informative markers would be off that far.

    For me the key fact to observe is that if you drew 22 random white (non-Hispanic) Americans you are almost certainly to get no more than a few percent non-European ancestry at most. If you selected Americans who claimed 4 European born grandparents there would be almost no non-European ancestry. Over the past year and a half I have done deeper analyses of friends who have received genotypes from 23andMe. These results align with what I’ve observed. White Americans generally look in vain for Native American ancestry. In contrast, white Latin Americans tend to have substantial non-European ancestry. And intriguingly it seems that many have unknown African ancestry. This highlights the difference between the settlement of Anglo-America, and Latin America. The demographic replacement of Amerindians in Anglo-America was radical and extreme. In contrast, even in self-consciously European settler regions such as South American’s southern cone a substantial proportion of Amerindian ancestry is present in contemporary populations. Because of the large number of Native Americans of mixed heritage it is likely that total Native American identified population is actually very similar to the amount of non-Hispanic Native American ancestry in the USA (i.e., numerous non-Native American identified whites and blacks with small quanta of ancestry will sum to be about the same absolute amount as the small number of Native Americans who are substantially indigenous). While 1.5 percent of Argentines identify as indigenous, 1 percent of Americans are Native American.

     

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/04/the-anglosphere-exception/#.VZUhVxtViko

    We investigated the bio-geographic ancestry of Argentineans, and quantified their genetic admixture, analyzing 246 unrelated male individuals from eight provinces of three Argentinean regions using ancestry-sensitive DNA markers (ASDM) from autosomal, Y and mitochondrial chromosomes. Our results demonstrate that European, Native American and African ancestry components were detectable in the contemporary Argentineans, the amounts depending on the genetic system applied, exhibiting large inter-individual heterogeneity. Argentineans carried a large fraction of European genetic heritage in their Y-chromosomal (94.1%) and autosomal (78.5%) DNA, but their mitochondrial gene pool is mostly of Native American ancestry (53.7%); instead, African heritage was small in all three genetic systems (<4%). Population substructure in Argentina considering the eight sampled provinces was very small based on autosomal (0.92% of total variation was between provincial groups, p = 0.005) and mtDNA (1.77%, p = 0.005) data (none with NRY data), and all three genetic systems revealed no substructure when clustering the provinces into the three geographic regions to which they belong. The complex genetic ancestry picture detected in Argentineans underscores the need to apply ASDM from all three genetic systems to infer geographic origins and genetic admixture. This applies to all worldwide areas where people with different continental ancestry live geographically close together.
     
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/12/how-argentina-became-white/#.VZUiXxtViko

    You see this in a lot of Latin American countries, but Argentina is extreme because their national character runs to fantasy. So an Argentine might see himself as a “European” even if when he looks in the mirror he sees a short brownish sort of guy (and that’s what the Argentine masses look like, esp. outside of Buenos Aires).

    It is ironic that white Americans often invent Amerindian ancestry when none exists (this even predates the current fad for transracialism), while Argentines deny their very real and significant ancestry. In old Virginy it was the subject of boasting, not shame, if you could say that you had a little Pocahontas in your family tree, but in Argentina where people have more than a little Indian in them they pretend that they don’t have any. Because indigenous people were largely wiped out in the Eastern US, it was possible to imagine a fantasy version of them as noble warriors of whom you would be proud to be descended, instead of poor, smelly native women that you slept with because you didn’t have enough status to get a European wife.

    The general pattern in Latin America is that the population is the product of male Europeans mating with indigenous females. This also appears to be the origin of Ashkenazi Jews in Europe, but the Jews got the better deal since European genes appear to have improved their intelligence.

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    • Replies: @dcite
    Have you seen many Argentines? The stereotype that occurs to me is a normal sized, rather Italianate individual. I thought the men good looking on the average, and the ladies are among the most beautiful anywhere. They age very well too. There are a lot of Germans and non-Med Euros in Argentina as well. I don't think people on this thread have been there or seen many. Since we're all talking about "impressions", mine is that they are overwhelmingly European, and the rest is inconsequential. Not all predominantly white countries have been economic powerhouses. They do better than most 3rd world places, but Canada or Denmark, they are not. Scandinavia was considered a rather poor backwater in the 19th century.
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  111. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Hi, I’m for Truth Equality.

    But too many people privilege truth over lies.

    That is unfair to us liars.

    It is unfair to say liars are not equal in truth with truth-tellers.

    It discriminates against liars.

    Who is to say a lie isn’t just as good a truth?

    Saying that truth is better than a lie is saying that a truth-teller is better than a liar.
    Some people assure us that it is not a crime to lie and that we liars shouldn’t complain since we liars are tolerated in society. But tolerance isn’t enough. We liars need to be welcomed, praised, celebrated, honored, and glorified. We need to be associated with rainbow colors.

    If a man says he is a woman because he had his penis cut off and replaced with a fake vagina, some people would say he is lying. But under Truth Equality, his lie would be equal to the truth. And that would be justice.

    If a man said his anus or fecal organ is just as much a sexual organ as a woman’s vagina, some would say he is lying. But so what? A lie is as good as a truth if we commit ourselves to the principle of Truth Equality.

    If I’m a Mexican woman but insist that I’m a Nigerian man after I put on an Afro, blacken my skin, and wear men’s clothes, then some people would call me a liar, but under the principle of Truth Equality, my lie would be as good as any truth. That is justice.

    And if I say my counterfeit money is as good as real money, that should be accepted also under the principle of Truth Equality. Why should society privilege truth over lies? Why should social institutions favor truth-tellers over liars?

    Indeed, we should come up with a new name for ‘lies’ and ‘liars’. Just like illegal aliens are now called ‘undocumented immigrants’, lies should be called ‘unverified or uncertain truths’. And liars should be called ‘creative truth-tellers’.

    Suppose I say George Zimmerman is a ‘southern white male’. Some people would say it is a lie, but in fact, it is just an unverified or uncertain truth. And if people call me a liar, I would defend myself as a ‘creative truth-teller’. And if we want to believe that all those black attackers who are playing the knockout game are ‘teens’ and ‘youths’, that is just creative truth-telling.

    And that is the path to real justice.

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    • Replies: @Anonym
    Orwellian in its genius. Don't give them any ideas.
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  112. It’s gotta be some kind of selection bias.

    Gotta love how the graphs observe the principle that the color scheme must maximally disrupt expectations, thus black never corresponds to black people, yellow to orientals, etc.

    Now here’s a fun one:

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/opinionator/2015/07/02/looking-white-in-the-face/

    Lots of great material, like,

    I was once criticized for using the expression “true north.” It reflected my Nordo-centrism, my critic said, and my insensitivity to people who live in the Southern Hemisphere.

    and

    …the task of engaging race or whiteness in philosophy has been taken up almost exclusively by nonwhite philosophers. My sense is that this is partly because whiteness is a site of privilege that makes it invisible to many white philosophers.

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  113. @anon
    It should be noted that hybrid vigor proper, i.e. the 2+2=5 scenario, is really only relevant in the first generation of crosses. Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, and High Yellow black folk are wayyy too inter-mixed.

    Also, humans of any given race aren't nearly inbred enough for it in the first place (save perhaps some New Guinea valley dwellers and remote islanders). You often hear we have relatively little genetic diversity compared to other species. But that lack of diversity is trivial compared to purebred livestock or canines. Those things are inbred. In that sense, hybrid vigor can be veiwed as merely a release from the shackles of an inbred-ness penalty.

    Hybrid vigor happen when you have a little-to-discret infusion of genes of other group or when similar groups marry each other… And happen selective advantageous processes. Large scale of mixing race seems to be a type of exogamic depression.

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  114. @JohnnyWalker123
    I thought it more like half, but this newest study found that Puerto Ricans are 65% white, 12% Native, and 20% black. I assume maybe the remainder are Asian?

    So that'd imply that PR is ethnically pretty similar to the U.S. Their low test scores (and high rates of dysfunctional behaviors like illegitimacy, homicide, and welfare abuse) really can't be fully attributed to black ancestry, as previously theorized.

    I guess PR represents an example of a very low-performing, predominately white country. It'd be interesting to discern what went wrong. Ron Unz once pointed out that Argentina and some of the other predominately white Latin nations under performed what ancestry alone would suggest, so maybe there's something else going on? Why do mostly-white Latinos do so badly so often?

    The interesting thing is that Africans and Afro-Carribeans academically do a lot better than ancestry would suggest, both in the US and the UK. In places like New York City,black Jamaican kids are outperforming their white PR classmates substantially. HBD would never have predicted that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBbA9wXh4M

    Ron Unz once pointed out that Argentina and some of the other predominately white Latin nations under performed what ancestry alone would suggest

    Argentina isn’t white like Wisconsin. More like our lighter Hispanics. Argentinia isn’t so bad. If you had to live in a South American country, which would you choose? Columbia? Venuzuelia? It would be high on the list.

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    • Replies: @iSteveFan

    Argentina isn’t white like Wisconsin. More like our lighter Hispanics. Argentinia isn’t so bad.
     
    This must be a touchy subject. For what it's worth here is a Youtube video of a guy trying to show how white Argentina really is. I found one of the comments interesting in which the poster suggested Argentina has gone open borders and allowed Indios from surrounding nations to flood into Argentina.

    Is this true? I guess it would not surprise me if Argentina has become increasingly nonwhite over the past couple decades as the white guilt spreads. If it has contaminated Europe and Australia, it only makes sense it would contaminate European parts of Latin America too. Look at how rapidly the USA's demographics have changed. Maybe Argentina is in the process of something similar too.
    , @JohnnyWalker123
    Per capita GDP -

    Argentina: 14,715.18 USD
    Mexico: 10,307.28 USD
    Chile: 15,732.31 USD
    Uruguay: 16,350.73 USD
    Brazil: 11,208.08 USD

    Uruguay is (by ancestry) 84% Euro, 10% Amerind, and 6% black. It also has a homicide rate of 8/100,000.

    Latin countries seem to under perform what their ancestry would indicate. PR just happens to be a more extreme example.
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  115. syonredux says:
    @iSteveFan

    Even Spain’s Golden Age was not all that golden when you compare it to what was going on in the rest of Western Europe.Spain from 1500-1650 was just keeping up (barely) with England, France, ...
     
    Syon, I understand what you are trying to communicate, but the issue of significant figures during that time period is a metric that we have created that quite possibly doesn't align with the metrics of success used then . I imagine if we could all travel back in time to 1500, France England and other Northern Euros would have envied the Spanish for being able to colonize so much of the New World. All of them were continually fighting and jockeying for a prize piece of the New World. I am sure any Northern Euro nation at that time would have given its proverbial left nut for what Spain had, and not felt secure in the fact they at least had smarter people. That knowledge might have made it harder to accept Spain's success all the more.

    Syon, I understand what you are trying to communicate, but the issue of significant figures during that time period is a metric that we have created that quite possibly doesn’t align with the metrics of success used then .

    I’m afraid that I don’t use “culture-neutral” PC standards when it comes to judging human accomplishment in the arts and the sciences.Take a gander at the maps for significant figures in the arts and sciences in Europe during the period 1400-1600 on page 301 of Murray’s Human Accomplishment.That’s the Golden Age, yet the Iberian Peninsula is a vast white blank (well, there are a few dots here and there) when compared to Italy, the Low Countries, England, etc.1600-1800 (302) and 1800-1950 (303) are even more telling.No, compared to Europe’s big four (Italy, France, Germany, Britain), the Iberian Peninsula is the dumb Dora of Western Europe.

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  116. @Jefferson
    But according to the census, Puerto Rico is a 75 percent "White" island. Why do "White" Puerto Ricans perform so poorly in school? Puerto Rican "Whites" must be the dumbest "Whites" on the planet.

    I think that Puerto Rico does not have a one-drop rule. So one would be considered an African (mulatto, Quadroon, Octoroon) in The US but in Puerto Rico one would considered as White.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Who even uses those terms anymore? I don't recall the USA having the "one drop rule" either, for a long time.
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  117. @Steve Sailer
    My vague impression is that Cuba got the more on-the-go sort of Spaniard, while Puerto Rico was considered a rural backwater.

    For example, in the 1920s, the world chess champion was a Cuban native, Capablanca.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Ra%C3%BAl_Capablanca

    My impression is that nobody at the time was particularly astonished that the world's best chess player was from Cuba. It would be kind of like if he were an Argentinean.

    It will be interesting to find out how much human capital Cuba has left.

    The great Capablanca-who may well have been the greatest chess player who ever lived- was a full blooded Spaniard. His father was a Spanish army officer who was then stationed in Cuba, which is why he was born in Havana. Saying “My impression is that nobody at the time was particularly astonished that the world’s best chess player was from Cuba.” is senseless ; Capablanca is Cuban is the equivalent of saying Orwell and Kipling are Indian

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  118. syonredux says:

    Since I hate waiting:

    iSteveFan:

    Syon, I understand what you are trying to communicate, but the issue of significant figures during that time period is a metric that we have created that quite possibly doesn’t align with the metrics of success used then .

    I’m afraid that I don’t use “culture-neutral” PC standards when it comes to judging human accomplishment in the arts and the sciences.Take a gander at the maps for significant figures in the arts and sciences in Europe during the period 1400-1600 on page 301 of Murray’s Human Accomplishment.That’s the Golden Age, yet the Iberian Peninsula is a vast white blank (well, there are a few dots here and there) when compared to Italy, the Low Countries, England, etc.1600-1800 (302) and 1800-1950 (303) are even more telling.No, compared to Europe’s big four (Italy, France, Germany, Britain), the Iberian Peninsula is the dumb Dora of Western Europe.

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  119. Anon says: • Disclaimer
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  120. […] Steve also tries to figure out why test scores in Puerto Rico are so amazingly bad. […]

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  121. J1234 says:

    The Amazingly Horrible Test Scores of Students in Puerto Rico

    Of course, that will all change (for the better) when PR becomes the 51st state. There’s like a magic wand affect on people who come to the US. They become better students and less violent and leave all of their third world traits behind in their former country or culture. This proves that they’re just like us. I’m Jeb Bush, and I approve this message.

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  122. @Nico
    A large percentage of Puerto Rican "whites" look curiously "mulatto." But I'm sure you knew that.

    NB: white skin and even respectable IQ and literacy don't preclude a country being a perpetual basket case, c.f. Argentina.

    “NB: white skin and even respectable IQ and literacy don’t preclude a country being a perpetual basket case, c.f. Argentina.”

    I had a professor who once remarked that “Argentina never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity”

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  123. Svigor says:

    Since I hate waiting

    Shit, as far as I can tell you’re permanently ensconced in the VIP queue. You should try it over here in the pleb line.

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  124. todd says:
    @Jefferson
    "Accessible info re the demography of PR claims 75% of the population is white."

    The average Puerto Rican is not even White by New York City standards which is full of Italians and Jews, let alone White by Minnesota standards which is full of Swedes and Germans.

    "White" in Puerto Rico is not the same thing as White in the mainland United States.

    “The average Puerto Rican is not even White by New York City standards which is full of Italians and Jews, let alone White by Minnesota standards which is full of “

    Puerto Ricans have been in the U.S for over a hundred years, and the vast majority were always considered white. During segregation, before there was a concept of hispanic/latino, they were white, and had the legal rights and privileges of whites.

    Rita Moreno was white, Sonia Sotomayor , “the wise Latina”, was born white, etc…

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Puerto Ricans have been in the U.S for over a hundred years, and the vast majority were always considered white."

    So the vast majority of Puerto Ricans in New York City, Newark, Miami, Philadelphia, Chicago, and Orlando are considered White and not NAM? Phenotype wise most of the time do you have an extremely hard time telling Puerto Ricans apart from Mayflower Anglo Saxon Protestants?

    , @Jefferson
    Puerto Ricans have been in the U.S for over a hundred years, and the vast majority were always considered white. During segregation, before there was a concept of hispanic/latino, they were white, and had the legal rights and privileges of whites.

    Rita Moreno was white, Sonia Sotomayor , “the wise Latina”, was born white, etc…


    If most Puerto Ricans were White, why do they have African American levels of poverty? 32 percent of Puerto Rican households in New York City are on welfare. Not even Whites in the Deep South have a a welfare percentage rate in the 30s.
    http://www.wnyc.org/story/87484-puerto-ricans-in-new-york-strugglingstill/

    If most Puerto Ricans are White, why is the crime rate in Puerto Rico closer to Jamaican levels than it is to European levels.

    , @Jefferson
    "Puerto Ricans have been in the U.S for over a hundred years, and the vast majority were always considered white. During segregation, before there was a concept of hispanic/latino, they were white, and had the legal rights and privileges of whites.

    Rita Moreno was white, Sonia Sotomayor , “the wise Latina”, was born white, etc…"

    This is how you know Puerto Ricans are not a White ethnic group, Puerto Rican rappers like Fat Joe and the late Big Punisher can say the N word in rap songs but Non Hispanic White Gringo rappers like Riff Raff, Vanilla Ice, Eminem, The Beastie Boys, etc can not.

    Puerto Rican rappers do not catch hell from the African American community for saying the N word in rap songs. Puerto Rican rappers do not get the Michael Richards treatment.

    Puerto Ricans can get away with saying a lot of politically incorrect things that Non Hispanic White Gringos could never get away with saying.

    , @Nico

    Puerto Ricans have been in the U.S for over a hundred years, and the vast majority were always considered white. During segregation, before there was a concept of hispanic/latino, they were white, and had the legal rights and privileges of whites.
     
    If that's true, it certainly gives the lie to the notion that success in American society is a function of "whiteness," or that genetic codes originating in Africa do not on average tend to function as a drag on sociability (in the broadest and most scientific sense of the word).
    , @ben tillman

    Puerto Ricans have been in the U.S for over a hundred years, and the vast majority were always considered white. During segregation, before there was a concept of hispanic/latino, they were white, and had the legal rights and privileges of whites.
     
    There was never legally enforced segregation where Puerto Ricans lived.
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  125. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @anon
    OT:

    Bruce Jenner is the gift that keeps on giving.

    most recently i used Bruce Jenner to prove William Saletan wrong on gay marriage, and he couldn't respond with a logical answer -- he did try:

    https://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/2221/5348/original.jpg


    "[Saletan] is saying here that homosexuality, unlike polyamory, is immutable, and hence non-analogous to polyamory. His argument goes something like this: one is born gay and remains so throughout life, but one isn’t born polyamorous, and nor is one biologically compelled to remain so throughout life.

    Not so fast.

    If gender is fluid, then sexual orientation is not immutable. Here is why:

    Caitlyn Jenner was born a man and was a heterosexual for the majority of her life, but then she became a woman who is sexually attracted to other women, and hence her sexual orientation became homosexual. Since her sexual orientation changed from heterosexual to homosexual, it is by definition mutable."
     

    https://samfrancis716.wordpress.com/2015/07/01/whither-gay-marriage/

    “His argument goes something like this: one is born gay and remains so throughout life, but one isn’t born polyamorous, and nor is one biologically compelled to remain so throughout life.”

    Tell that to Bill Clinton. If he could have it his way, he would be an Ottoman Sultan with tons of wives.

    Many men are born very horny and wants lots of women. It’s in their genes.

    Of course, super-horny men can try to control themselves but so can homosexuals.

    But homos naturally want to bugger other men, and super-horny men naturally want more than one partner.

    So, both homo-ness and poly-golly-ness are immutable in some men.

    Also, many homos are also immutably poly-golly. They wants lots of men, and I’ll bet some homo men will want to be join in poly-homo-gamy.

    If fact, a lot of men(and even women) are naturally predisposed to want several or even many partners. It’s in their genes.

    Also, from a purely legal viewpoint, what does it matter if it’s immutable or not? The Scotus decision was based on individual freedom. So, if an individual wants to marry multiple partners or marry someone in the same family, why should he or she be denied when homos are not denied the ‘right to marry’?

    It’s all about individual choice.

    Besides, ‘same sex marriage’ now even allows two straight men who are NOT homo to marry just to exchange social benefits.

    Nothing immutable there but only economics involved. But ‘same sex marriage’ allows it.

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    • Replies: @Robert Hume
    Government marriage benefits should not begin until the marriage unit begins to care for a child, since that used to be the point of marriage.

    Benefits after the child leaves the nest should exist only if the child was cared for to the age of, shall we say, 18 years.
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  126. Luke Lea says: • Website
    @Jimmy Jones
    OT: "US police killings headed for 1,100 this year, with black Americans twice as likely to die."

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/01/us-police-killings-this-year-black-americans

    https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/3br3j6/were_the_guardian_reporters_behind_the_counted_a/

    OT: “US police killings headed for 1,100 this year, with black Americans twice as likely to die.”

    According to Heather MacDonald:

    “The black percentage of suspects killed by the police, historically around 29%, is lower than one would expect based on the best available data on those who represent a mortal threat to the police, according to Gary Kleck, a criminologist at Florida State University.

    In 2013, for example, blacks made up 42% of all cop killers whose race was known, even though they are only 13% of the nation’s population.”

    http://goo.gl/WwVj5e

    Also:

    “Black cops have shot black suspects at essentially the same rate as white cops”

    http://goo.gl/Aw83dn

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    • Replies: @anon
    NYT distorting the truth again to fit their anti-white narrative.

    You'd think their readership would start to notice.
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  127. iSteveFan says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome


    Ron Unz once pointed out that Argentina and some of the other predominately white Latin nations under performed what ancestry alone would suggest

     

    Argentina isn't white like Wisconsin. More like our lighter Hispanics. Argentinia isn't so bad. If you had to live in a South American country, which would you choose? Columbia? Venuzuelia? It would be high on the list.

    Argentina isn’t white like Wisconsin. More like our lighter Hispanics. Argentinia isn’t so bad.

    This must be a touchy subject. For what it’s worth here is a Youtube video of a guy trying to show how white Argentina really is. I found one of the comments interesting in which the poster suggested Argentina has gone open borders and allowed Indios from surrounding nations to flood into Argentina.

    Is this true? I guess it would not surprise me if Argentina has become increasingly nonwhite over the past couple decades as the white guilt spreads. If it has contaminated Europe and Australia, it only makes sense it would contaminate European parts of Latin America too. Look at how rapidly the USA’s demographics have changed. Maybe Argentina is in the process of something similar too.

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    • Replies: @Clyde

    I found one of the comments interesting in which the poster suggested Argentina has gone open borders and allowed Indios from surrounding nations to flood into Argentina.
     
    Perhaps from Paraguay? Which is very poor and very indio, traditionally lorded over by a white elite. We all know how African blacks migrated to South Africa to labor in the prosperity (such as mining) that the Dutch and English created. Resulting in a much blacker ratio South Africa. It was sparsely settled when the Europeans arrived en masse.
    , @Anonymous
    No Argentina is full of naziz
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  128. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    But the Economic Development Administration of Puerto Rico told me that they have a “skilled work force”!

    Progress Island USA (aka Cheap Laborville)

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  129. Beliavsky says:

    The 2813 Puerto Ricans who took the SAT in Puerto Rico in 2013 http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/2013/PR_13_03_03_01.pdf scored 452, 446, and 445 on average on the verbal, math, and writing sections. The 27,871 Puerto Ricans who took it anywhere (mostly residing in continental U.S.) http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/2013/TotalGroup-2013.pdf scored 456, 453, and 445 on average. The standard deviation of SAT section scores is about 100, so these are small differences. The average scores of whites were 527, 534, and 515. There is little evidence from SAT scores that the Puerto Rican educational system does a worse job of educating Puerto Ricans than the American one does.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    But what percentages of all Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico took the SAT: 2813 sounds like it's in the 5% to 10% range.
    , @Triumph104

    The 2813 Puerto Ricans who took the SAT in Puerto Rico in 2013 http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/2013/PR_13_03_03_01.pdf scored 452, 446, and 445 on average on the verbal, math, and writing sections. The 27,871 Puerto Ricans who took it anywhere (mostly residing in continental U.S.) http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/2013/TotalGroup-2013.pdf scored 456, 453, and 445 on average. The standard deviation of SAT section scores is about 100, so these are small differences. The average scores of whites were 527, 534, and 515. There is little evidence from SAT scores that the Puerto Rican educational system does a worse job of educating Puerto Ricans than the American one does.
     
    Incorrect. According to data from 2000, 30,000 graduated high school in Puerto Rico. 2813 island SAT test takers is less than 10% of graduates. At least 20% of islanders attend private school. Island private schools have a 99% graduation rate while island public schools graduate 42% and only 1% of island public school graduates get accepted into college compared to 100% of private school grads.

    In other words, a public stateside school produces the same quality of graduate as a private island school. Most island Puerto Ricans are not fluent in English, therefore only the elite, private schooled, can be expected to score in the 400s on the SAT. Public island students simply aren't taking the SAT. Why would they? They can't speak English and they don't go to college.

    http://sitemaker.umich.edu/bur.356/puerto_rico_s_statistics__private___public_schools

    , @Jo
    I got 524 in reading and 584 in math...and I didn't even bother to study. I left parts of the test in blank. Sorry for not scoring anything lower than that. This was in 2004.
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  130. Anon says: • Disclaimer
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  131. @Beliavsky
    The 2813 Puerto Ricans who took the SAT in Puerto Rico in 2013 http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/2013/PR_13_03_03_01.pdf scored 452, 446, and 445 on average on the verbal, math, and writing sections. The 27,871 Puerto Ricans who took it anywhere (mostly residing in continental U.S.) http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/2013/TotalGroup-2013.pdf scored 456, 453, and 445 on average. The standard deviation of SAT section scores is about 100, so these are small differences. The average scores of whites were 527, 534, and 515. There is little evidence from SAT scores that the Puerto Rican educational system does a worse job of educating Puerto Ricans than the American one does.

    But what percentages of all Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico took the SAT: 2813 sounds like it’s in the 5% to 10% range.

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  132. Anon says: • Disclaimer
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  133. M says:

    Steve, slightly at a tangent of the topic of Puerto Rican test scores, but related…

    Often you mention Moynihan’s Law of the Canadian Border.

    So I was interested in seeing how different White Ethnic groups affect this -

    General Social Survey – Wordsum and Education by Region (for 4 region division of the USA)
    -

    You see a few interesting things here:

    - The average for the Top 20 White ethnic groups, is the same in the South as in the Midwest. Both are different from the coasts. Supports the idea of a (mild) bicoastal educational and cognitive elitism against a less intellectually distinguished south and midwest (see to an extent “friendly and conventional region” –

    http://img.timeinc.net/time/wp/interactives/apps/personality_map/screenshot.png)

    - The Anglos (England, Wales and Scotland ancestry) actually seem to be the highest performing White ethnic group in the USA when region is partialled out, and if you choose to discount the Russian Jewish ancestry effect. Even if you don’t do this, Southern Anglos still perform well compared to Midwestern Germans and Scandinavians (Irish also do not badly).

    Rank order, net of region, discounting the Russians, goes:

    UK, Scandinavia, France+Ireland+Other, MittelEuropa (Poland, Czech Republic, Germany), South West Europe, Netherlands+French Canucks (weirdly), then American only and Amerindian influenced (American Indian, Other Spanish, Mexico). Surprisingly consistent.

    - This said, the overall White group (without adjusting for White ethnic balance) does perform less well in the South than the Midwest.

    This probably isn’t due to a high Anglo, or Irish, fraction compared to the Midwest, since as discussed Anglos do well in every region they’re in, usually among the best.

    However, it may link to a relatively high proportion of low performing ethnicities who nonetheless identify as White. for instance, Whites of self identified Spanish, Mexican, American Indian and American Only ancestry in the South (this is probably familar to actual Southerners and a surprise to many others).

    All of these are pretty low in proportion individually but together might combine to throw off the South compared to the Midwest (the scores of self identified Whites of self identifed Mexican and American Indian ancestry are *really* low so even if they only make up 10% of the White South, they affect the White score pretty high compared to the Midwest).

    - However, a lot of the Southern / Midwestern decrease relative to the Coasts probably is cultural, as it shows up within Blacks, Whites and Other groups – you wouldn’t expect that if it were purely related to intra White ethnic group differences (there is always the possibility of different migration etc though).

    Overall, interesting exercise to me (even if American self described White ethnicity is not quite real ancestry). You can see why the idea of a WASP Ascendancy in the US actually does have some *real* roots… because self identified “WASPs” are a slightly higher performing group *within* every region, and so will tend to be overrepresented in the local body politic, and their numbers are good everywhere.

    (Also note – should the fact that Whites who are self identifed American Indians have quite notably lower Wordsum and Education affect our estimate of their level of American Indian ancestry / cultural influence?)

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    • Replies: @rod1963
    Yes, WASP's are apex whites according to HBD'ers. But they are also the very group that has turned the establishment against whites over the last 60+ years. However there is no tribal, clan or cultural loyalty with that lot at all. You look at the mother country of apex whites - England that is committing demographic suicide and led by the aristocratic class.

    It's clear IQ isn't enough to create a functional society with long term survival prospects.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    - However, a lot of the Southern / Midwestern decrease relative to the Coasts probably is cultural…
     
    …and/or climatic. Most of the year, it's too hot for a white man to think.
    , @M
    As confirmation that differences in some White ethnic groups may be driving a difference between the White South and Midwest:

    http://i.imgur.com/2k5a9GU.png - Wordsum and Education for Whites of only English, Scottish, Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, French, Irish, Polish, Czech and German ancestry.

    No separation between the South and Midwest, or between the East and West coast (but stronger scores on the coast for Wordsum than North and South).

    (Subregions break it down a little. The Mid Atlantic region is the most surprising in being smarter like the East generally, but lower education like the Midwest. Maybe transitional between the "smart" and verbose New England culture and the egalitarian and practical Midwestern culture where people are more assured of good jobs, fulfilling work and sharing in prosperity without gathering bundles of credentials?)
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  134. rod1963 says:
    @M
    Steve, slightly at a tangent of the topic of Puerto Rican test scores, but related...

    Often you mention Moynihan's Law of the Canadian Border.

    So I was interested in seeing how different White Ethnic groups affect this -

    General Social Survey - Wordsum and Education by Region (for 4 region division of the USA)
    - http://i.imgur.com/Bu4qPGX.png

    You see a few interesting things here:

    - The average for the Top 20 White ethnic groups, is the same in the South as in the Midwest. Both are different from the coasts. Supports the idea of a (mild) bicoastal educational and cognitive elitism against a less intellectually distinguished south and midwest (see to an extent "friendly and conventional region" -
    http://img.timeinc.net/time/wp/interactives/apps/personality_map/screenshot.png)

    - The Anglos (England, Wales and Scotland ancestry) actually seem to be the highest performing White ethnic group in the USA when region is partialled out, and if you choose to discount the Russian Jewish ancestry effect. Even if you don't do this, Southern Anglos still perform well compared to Midwestern Germans and Scandinavians (Irish also do not badly).

    Rank order, net of region, discounting the Russians, goes:

    UK, Scandinavia, France+Ireland+Other, MittelEuropa (Poland, Czech Republic, Germany), South West Europe, Netherlands+French Canucks (weirdly), then American only and Amerindian influenced (American Indian, Other Spanish, Mexico). Surprisingly consistent.

    - This said, the overall White group (without adjusting for White ethnic balance) does perform less well in the South than the Midwest.

    This probably isn't due to a high Anglo, or Irish, fraction compared to the Midwest, since as discussed Anglos do well in every region they're in, usually among the best.

    However, it may link to a relatively high proportion of low performing ethnicities who nonetheless identify as White. for instance, Whites of self identified Spanish, Mexican, American Indian and American Only ancestry in the South (this is probably familar to actual Southerners and a surprise to many others).

    All of these are pretty low in proportion individually but together might combine to throw off the South compared to the Midwest (the scores of self identified Whites of self identifed Mexican and American Indian ancestry are *really* low so even if they only make up 10% of the White South, they affect the White score pretty high compared to the Midwest).

    - However, a lot of the Southern / Midwestern decrease relative to the Coasts probably is cultural, as it shows up within Blacks, Whites and Other groups - you wouldn't expect that if it were purely related to intra White ethnic group differences (there is always the possibility of different migration etc though).

    Overall, interesting exercise to me (even if American self described White ethnicity is not quite real ancestry). You can see why the idea of a WASP Ascendancy in the US actually does have some *real* roots... because self identified "WASPs" are a slightly higher performing group *within* every region, and so will tend to be overrepresented in the local body politic, and their numbers are good everywhere.

    (Also note - should the fact that Whites who are self identifed American Indians have quite notably lower Wordsum and Education affect our estimate of their level of American Indian ancestry / cultural influence?)

    Yes, WASP’s are apex whites according to HBD’ers. But they are also the very group that has turned the establishment against whites over the last 60+ years. However there is no tribal, clan or cultural loyalty with that lot at all. You look at the mother country of apex whites – England that is committing demographic suicide and led by the aristocratic class.

    It’s clear IQ isn’t enough to create a functional society with long term survival prospects.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Nico

    It’s clear IQ isn’t enough to create a functional society with long term survival prospects.
     
    IQ is a measure of g, and the aim as I understand is to define g as pure logical cognitive processing and navigational power. IQ tests, as they have been developed and refine, aim to more clearly measure g without bias towards other cerebral functions.

    But whatever the pluses of a high g-level, in some respects it can't compensate for low EI (EQ), which is increasingly important as social media plays to the temptation to broadcast one's entire life and to indulge in to every stupid whim. (Ask Hanna Kern and Justine Sacco what the online world can do for histrionics/exhibitionists and borderlines/impulsives.)

    But g and EI even together are not enough. As you point out, one can be "well-adjusted"... to a horrible society. If the general culture can only offer perverse socialization, as in the case of most of the U.S. and Britain, the bright and bold will end up incredibly stupid. This explains why so many we encounter on the "alt right," not withstanding the perfect common sense of their political and societal worldview, are psychologically... not all there.
    , @Anonymous
    The hitch is the "P" in that acronym. A big chunk of the HBD Nation dittoheads, more than 1/3rd judging by online force projection, are Montanists and recusants and the sort of people who get pissed off whenever Dan Brown churns out a book. To these folks Mel Gibson is the apex white. On the other hand U.S.A. has for clear reasons always been more hospitable to Protestant moneybags, who as a matter of patrimonial honor funded lots of liberal Protestant university professors to write the history books, so one group of whitepeople's way of life has been duly deified, albeit in the increasingly vanishing past. Cushy college jobs with 3 months of vacation and a year off after every 4 are the ultimate prize of all modern dissident movements; and you know if education had remained squarely under Vatican control where it belongs, wouldn't have so many tenured rootless cosmopolitans over all these years -- stinking up the joint with their Zionist brain-waves and culture of kvetch.
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  135. Realist says:
    @Jefferson
    "What percent of the ‘white’ population has black genetics?"

    Frank Sweet is a Puerto Rican guy who is the moderator of a discussion board called "The Study Of Racialism". He said he is considered "White" in Puerto Rico even though a AncestryByDNA result revealed that he is 13 percent Sub Saharan African, basically an Octoroon.

    He said the result did not shock him because his Puerto Rican family have a broad range of different skin colors and hair textures. He said his family is similar to that of a Louisiana Creole
    family who are also known for having a broad range of different phenotypes. Puerto Ricans are basically like Spanish speaking versions of Louisiana Creoles. Both groups are racially ambiguous mystery meat.

    The answer to my question: The vast majority.

    Read More
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  136. Jefferson says:
    @todd

    "The average Puerto Rican is not even White by New York City standards which is full of Italians and Jews, let alone White by Minnesota standards which is full of "
     
    Puerto Ricans have been in the U.S for over a hundred years, and the vast majority were always considered white. During segregation, before there was a concept of hispanic/latino, they were white, and had the legal rights and privileges of whites.

    Rita Moreno was white, Sonia Sotomayor , "the wise Latina", was born white, etc...

    “Puerto Ricans have been in the U.S for over a hundred years, and the vast majority were always considered white.”

    So the vast majority of Puerto Ricans in New York City, Newark, Miami, Philadelphia, Chicago, and Orlando are considered White and not NAM? Phenotype wise most of the time do you have an extremely hard time telling Puerto Ricans apart from Mayflower Anglo Saxon Protestants?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ed
    In WW2 Puerto Ricans that weren't obviously black served in white units. Puerto Ricans that were black served in black units. Not sure what the % of Puerto Rican WW2 soldiers served in black units but seems like a good place to ballpark % of Puerto Ricans that would be considered "white" overall in mainland USA.
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  137. @M
    Steve, slightly at a tangent of the topic of Puerto Rican test scores, but related...

    Often you mention Moynihan's Law of the Canadian Border.

    So I was interested in seeing how different White Ethnic groups affect this -

    General Social Survey - Wordsum and Education by Region (for 4 region division of the USA)
    - http://i.imgur.com/Bu4qPGX.png

    You see a few interesting things here:

    - The average for the Top 20 White ethnic groups, is the same in the South as in the Midwest. Both are different from the coasts. Supports the idea of a (mild) bicoastal educational and cognitive elitism against a less intellectually distinguished south and midwest (see to an extent "friendly and conventional region" -
    http://img.timeinc.net/time/wp/interactives/apps/personality_map/screenshot.png)

    - The Anglos (England, Wales and Scotland ancestry) actually seem to be the highest performing White ethnic group in the USA when region is partialled out, and if you choose to discount the Russian Jewish ancestry effect. Even if you don't do this, Southern Anglos still perform well compared to Midwestern Germans and Scandinavians (Irish also do not badly).

    Rank order, net of region, discounting the Russians, goes:

    UK, Scandinavia, France+Ireland+Other, MittelEuropa (Poland, Czech Republic, Germany), South West Europe, Netherlands+French Canucks (weirdly), then American only and Amerindian influenced (American Indian, Other Spanish, Mexico). Surprisingly consistent.

    - This said, the overall White group (without adjusting for White ethnic balance) does perform less well in the South than the Midwest.

    This probably isn't due to a high Anglo, or Irish, fraction compared to the Midwest, since as discussed Anglos do well in every region they're in, usually among the best.

    However, it may link to a relatively high proportion of low performing ethnicities who nonetheless identify as White. for instance, Whites of self identified Spanish, Mexican, American Indian and American Only ancestry in the South (this is probably familar to actual Southerners and a surprise to many others).

    All of these are pretty low in proportion individually but together might combine to throw off the South compared to the Midwest (the scores of self identified Whites of self identifed Mexican and American Indian ancestry are *really* low so even if they only make up 10% of the White South, they affect the White score pretty high compared to the Midwest).

    - However, a lot of the Southern / Midwestern decrease relative to the Coasts probably is cultural, as it shows up within Blacks, Whites and Other groups - you wouldn't expect that if it were purely related to intra White ethnic group differences (there is always the possibility of different migration etc though).

    Overall, interesting exercise to me (even if American self described White ethnicity is not quite real ancestry). You can see why the idea of a WASP Ascendancy in the US actually does have some *real* roots... because self identified "WASPs" are a slightly higher performing group *within* every region, and so will tend to be overrepresented in the local body politic, and their numbers are good everywhere.

    (Also note - should the fact that Whites who are self identifed American Indians have quite notably lower Wordsum and Education affect our estimate of their level of American Indian ancestry / cultural influence?)

    - However, a lot of the Southern / Midwestern decrease relative to the Coasts probably is cultural…

    …and/or climatic. Most of the year, it’s too hot for a white man to think.

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  138. Jefferson says:
    @todd

    "The average Puerto Rican is not even White by New York City standards which is full of Italians and Jews, let alone White by Minnesota standards which is full of "
     
    Puerto Ricans have been in the U.S for over a hundred years, and the vast majority were always considered white. During segregation, before there was a concept of hispanic/latino, they were white, and had the legal rights and privileges of whites.

    Rita Moreno was white, Sonia Sotomayor , "the wise Latina", was born white, etc...

    Puerto Ricans have been in the U.S for over a hundred years, and the vast majority were always considered white. During segregation, before there was a concept of hispanic/latino, they were white, and had the legal rights and privileges of whites.

    Rita Moreno was white, Sonia Sotomayor , “the wise Latina”, was born white, etc…

    If most Puerto Ricans were White, why do they have African American levels of poverty? 32 percent of Puerto Rican households in New York City are on welfare. Not even Whites in the Deep South have a a welfare percentage rate in the 30s.

    http://www.wnyc.org/story/87484-puerto-ricans-in-new-york-strugglingstill/

    If most Puerto Ricans are White, why is the crime rate in Puerto Rico closer to Jamaican levels than it is to European levels.

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  139. M says:
    @M
    Steve, slightly at a tangent of the topic of Puerto Rican test scores, but related...

    Often you mention Moynihan's Law of the Canadian Border.

    So I was interested in seeing how different White Ethnic groups affect this -

    General Social Survey - Wordsum and Education by Region (for 4 region division of the USA)
    - http://i.imgur.com/Bu4qPGX.png

    You see a few interesting things here:

    - The average for the Top 20 White ethnic groups, is the same in the South as in the Midwest. Both are different from the coasts. Supports the idea of a (mild) bicoastal educational and cognitive elitism against a less intellectually distinguished south and midwest (see to an extent "friendly and conventional region" -
    http://img.timeinc.net/time/wp/interactives/apps/personality_map/screenshot.png)

    - The Anglos (England, Wales and Scotland ancestry) actually seem to be the highest performing White ethnic group in the USA when region is partialled out, and if you choose to discount the Russian Jewish ancestry effect. Even if you don't do this, Southern Anglos still perform well compared to Midwestern Germans and Scandinavians (Irish also do not badly).

    Rank order, net of region, discounting the Russians, goes:

    UK, Scandinavia, France+Ireland+Other, MittelEuropa (Poland, Czech Republic, Germany), South West Europe, Netherlands+French Canucks (weirdly), then American only and Amerindian influenced (American Indian, Other Spanish, Mexico). Surprisingly consistent.

    - This said, the overall White group (without adjusting for White ethnic balance) does perform less well in the South than the Midwest.

    This probably isn't due to a high Anglo, or Irish, fraction compared to the Midwest, since as discussed Anglos do well in every region they're in, usually among the best.

    However, it may link to a relatively high proportion of low performing ethnicities who nonetheless identify as White. for instance, Whites of self identified Spanish, Mexican, American Indian and American Only ancestry in the South (this is probably familar to actual Southerners and a surprise to many others).

    All of these are pretty low in proportion individually but together might combine to throw off the South compared to the Midwest (the scores of self identified Whites of self identifed Mexican and American Indian ancestry are *really* low so even if they only make up 10% of the White South, they affect the White score pretty high compared to the Midwest).

    - However, a lot of the Southern / Midwestern decrease relative to the Coasts probably is cultural, as it shows up within Blacks, Whites and Other groups - you wouldn't expect that if it were purely related to intra White ethnic group differences (there is always the possibility of different migration etc though).

    Overall, interesting exercise to me (even if American self described White ethnicity is not quite real ancestry). You can see why the idea of a WASP Ascendancy in the US actually does have some *real* roots... because self identified "WASPs" are a slightly higher performing group *within* every region, and so will tend to be overrepresented in the local body politic, and their numbers are good everywhere.

    (Also note - should the fact that Whites who are self identifed American Indians have quite notably lower Wordsum and Education affect our estimate of their level of American Indian ancestry / cultural influence?)

    As confirmation that differences in some White ethnic groups may be driving a difference between the White South and Midwest:

    - Wordsum and Education for Whites of only English, Scottish, Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, French, Irish, Polish, Czech and German ancestry.

    No separation between the South and Midwest, or between the East and West coast (but stronger scores on the coast for Wordsum than North and South).

    (Subregions break it down a little. The Mid Atlantic region is the most surprising in being smarter like the East generally, but lower education like the Midwest. Maybe transitional between the “smart” and verbose New England culture and the egalitarian and practical Midwestern culture where people are more assured of good jobs, fulfilling work and sharing in prosperity without gathering bundles of credentials?)

    Read More
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  140. Jefferson says:
    @todd

    "The average Puerto Rican is not even White by New York City standards which is full of Italians and Jews, let alone White by Minnesota standards which is full of "
     
    Puerto Ricans have been in the U.S for over a hundred years, and the vast majority were always considered white. During segregation, before there was a concept of hispanic/latino, they were white, and had the legal rights and privileges of whites.

    Rita Moreno was white, Sonia Sotomayor , "the wise Latina", was born white, etc...

    “Puerto Ricans have been in the U.S for over a hundred years, and the vast majority were always considered white. During segregation, before there was a concept of hispanic/latino, they were white, and had the legal rights and privileges of whites.

    Rita Moreno was white, Sonia Sotomayor , “the wise Latina”, was born white, etc…”

    This is how you know Puerto Ricans are not a White ethnic group, Puerto Rican rappers like Fat Joe and the late Big Punisher can say the N word in rap songs but Non Hispanic White Gringo rappers like Riff Raff, Vanilla Ice, Eminem, The Beastie Boys, etc can not.

    Puerto Rican rappers do not catch hell from the African American community for saying the N word in rap songs. Puerto Rican rappers do not get the Michael Richards treatment.

    Puerto Ricans can get away with saying a lot of politically incorrect things that Non Hispanic White Gringos could never get away with saying.

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  141. @JohnnyWalker123
    I thought it more like half, but this newest study found that Puerto Ricans are 65% white, 12% Native, and 20% black. I assume maybe the remainder are Asian?

    So that'd imply that PR is ethnically pretty similar to the U.S. Their low test scores (and high rates of dysfunctional behaviors like illegitimacy, homicide, and welfare abuse) really can't be fully attributed to black ancestry, as previously theorized.

    I guess PR represents an example of a very low-performing, predominately white country. It'd be interesting to discern what went wrong. Ron Unz once pointed out that Argentina and some of the other predominately white Latin nations under performed what ancestry alone would suggest, so maybe there's something else going on? Why do mostly-white Latinos do so badly so often?

    The interesting thing is that Africans and Afro-Carribeans academically do a lot better than ancestry would suggest, both in the US and the UK. In places like New York City,black Jamaican kids are outperforming their white PR classmates substantially. HBD would never have predicted that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBbA9wXh4M

    Probably because the average percentages are only given for the paternal line. From Wikipedia:
    “A recent study of Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) from 800 individuals found that patrilineal input, as indicated by the Y-chromosome, showed 66% of Puerto Ricans could trace their ancestry to male European ancestors, 18% could trace it to male African ancestors, and 16% could trace it to male Native American ancestors.[21] As for maternal DNA, 61.1% of those sampled were found as having Amerindian maternal mtDNA. This means that if a person could trace back in time from daughter to mother, she would eventually reach women who lived in Puerto Rico in Pre-Columbian time. The rest divides between 26.4% with female African ancestors and 12.5% with female European ancestors.[21] Both of these findings are consistent with the popular belief from historical record that male European immigrants took for themselves wives from among the native Indian and, later, black slave populations.[22]“

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Jennifer Lopez is mestizo in look, but that's not all that common among Puerto Ricans. Before the DNA studies of this century, it was common for population anthropologists to assume that the Amerindians of pre-Columbian Puerto Rico had left no influence on current PR ancestry, but a DNA study around 2000 disproved that.
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  142. Clyde says:
    @iSteveFan

    Argentina isn’t white like Wisconsin. More like our lighter Hispanics. Argentinia isn’t so bad.
     
    This must be a touchy subject. For what it's worth here is a Youtube video of a guy trying to show how white Argentina really is. I found one of the comments interesting in which the poster suggested Argentina has gone open borders and allowed Indios from surrounding nations to flood into Argentina.

    Is this true? I guess it would not surprise me if Argentina has become increasingly nonwhite over the past couple decades as the white guilt spreads. If it has contaminated Europe and Australia, it only makes sense it would contaminate European parts of Latin America too. Look at how rapidly the USA's demographics have changed. Maybe Argentina is in the process of something similar too.

    I found one of the comments interesting in which the poster suggested Argentina has gone open borders and allowed Indios from surrounding nations to flood into Argentina.

    Perhaps from Paraguay? Which is very poor and very indio, traditionally lorded over by a white elite. We all know how African blacks migrated to South Africa to labor in the prosperity (such as mining) that the Dutch and English created. Resulting in a much blacker ratio South Africa. It was sparsely settled when the Europeans arrived en masse.

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  143. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Using the logic of ‘affirmative action’, since women got the vote considerably later than men did, shouldn’t women’s votes count more than men’s votes?

    So, if a man’s vote is worth 1 vote, a woman’s vote should be worth 1.5 vote.

    To redress past wrongs. It seems only right.

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  144. Nico says:
    @todd

    "The average Puerto Rican is not even White by New York City standards which is full of Italians and Jews, let alone White by Minnesota standards which is full of "
     
    Puerto Ricans have been in the U.S for over a hundred years, and the vast majority were always considered white. During segregation, before there was a concept of hispanic/latino, they were white, and had the legal rights and privileges of whites.

    Rita Moreno was white, Sonia Sotomayor , "the wise Latina", was born white, etc...

    Puerto Ricans have been in the U.S for over a hundred years, and the vast majority were always considered white. During segregation, before there was a concept of hispanic/latino, they were white, and had the legal rights and privileges of whites.

    If that’s true, it certainly gives the lie to the notion that success in American society is a function of “whiteness,” or that genetic codes originating in Africa do not on average tend to function as a drag on sociability (in the broadest and most scientific sense of the word).

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  145. Jefferson says:

    Puerto Ricans in New York City on average side with African Americans over Non Hispanic White Gringo Americans when it comes to racial conflicts.

    Like the scene in “Do The Right Thing” where the Puerto Rican Yoofs sided with Radio Raheem over pizzeria owner Salvatore Fragione. Those Boricua Yoofs participated with African Americans in the looting and burning down of Sal’s pizzeria.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ4y7GPeFBY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TrE6GquNKE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G7TTDEHl5o

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  146. Nico says:
    @rod1963
    Yes, WASP's are apex whites according to HBD'ers. But they are also the very group that has turned the establishment against whites over the last 60+ years. However there is no tribal, clan or cultural loyalty with that lot at all. You look at the mother country of apex whites - England that is committing demographic suicide and led by the aristocratic class.

    It's clear IQ isn't enough to create a functional society with long term survival prospects.

    It’s clear IQ isn’t enough to create a functional society with long term survival prospects.

    IQ is a measure of g, and the aim as I understand is to define g as pure logical cognitive processing and navigational power. IQ tests, as they have been developed and refine, aim to more clearly measure g without bias towards other cerebral functions.

    But whatever the pluses of a high g-level, in some respects it can’t compensate for low EI (EQ), which is increasingly important as social media plays to the temptation to broadcast one’s entire life and to indulge in to every stupid whim. (Ask Hanna Kern and Justine Sacco what the online world can do for histrionics/exhibitionists and borderlines/impulsives.)

    But g and EI even together are not enough. As you point out, one can be “well-adjusted”… to a horrible society. If the general culture can only offer perverse socialization, as in the case of most of the U.S. and Britain, the bright and bold will end up incredibly stupid. This explains why so many we encounter on the “alt right,” not withstanding the perfect common sense of their political and societal worldview, are psychologically… not all there.

    Read More
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  147. Anonym says:

    On the plus side… Sharday.

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  148. @Anon
    "His argument goes something like this: one is born gay and remains so throughout life, but one isn’t born polyamorous, and nor is one biologically compelled to remain so throughout life."

    Tell that to Bill Clinton. If he could have it his way, he would be an Ottoman Sultan with tons of wives.

    Many men are born very horny and wants lots of women. It's in their genes.

    Of course, super-horny men can try to control themselves but so can homosexuals.

    But homos naturally want to bugger other men, and super-horny men naturally want more than one partner.

    So, both homo-ness and poly-golly-ness are immutable in some men.

    Also, many homos are also immutably poly-golly. They wants lots of men, and I'll bet some homo men will want to be join in poly-homo-gamy.

    If fact, a lot of men(and even women) are naturally predisposed to want several or even many partners. It's in their genes.

    Also, from a purely legal viewpoint, what does it matter if it's immutable or not? The Scotus decision was based on individual freedom. So, if an individual wants to marry multiple partners or marry someone in the same family, why should he or she be denied when homos are not denied the 'right to marry'?

    It's all about individual choice.

    Besides, 'same sex marriage' now even allows two straight men who are NOT homo to marry just to exchange social benefits.

    Nothing immutable there but only economics involved. But 'same sex marriage' allows it.

    Government marriage benefits should not begin until the marriage unit begins to care for a child, since that used to be the point of marriage.

    Benefits after the child leaves the nest should exist only if the child was cared for to the age of, shall we say, 18 years.

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  149. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    It’s OT, but a couple years ago when Steve was complaining about Spanish-language TV — I believe he was advocating a type of enabling act to enforce always-on English subtitles in all programming — on a lark I started DVR’ing more of the channels in my package. The interesting aspect from the credits was the national origin of filmed (not talk show/news) programming: Venezuela and Colombia were easily most common, both for comedies and super-violent telenovelas, but I saw Mexican and Panamanian series in the mix (central Mexico of course has a semi-thriving boutique film industry of sorts, cf. the Oscars every other year). Chilean or Argentinian shows were rare, most likely due to their monologue-heavy PBS vibe and the fact that the actors all seem undernourished or super-sickly pale like Prince Charles II.

    Anyway considering my avid collector tendencies I was surprised over about 3 months never to catch a PR production. You’d think with the all the bueno economic ties & free-flowing investment down there, plus beautiful scenery, this wouldn’t necessarily follow; but if they can’t be arsed to put together a school curriculum I guess Puertowood isn’t on the map yet either. Wiki’s got a list of 45 movies that used the island as a location (including the original adaptation of “Lord of the Flies” btw); I already know without checking that Costa Rica sees film crews 10 times as much. Most exhaustive list of English-market uses I found was here– naturally they’re touters so they exaggerate how much time was spent getting exterior shots for “Havana” which comprised 2 1/2 minutes in the final cut:

    http://www.legendsofpr.com/blog_movies.htm

    Of the homegrown names most immediately recognizable to me are Benicio del Toro, Jose Ferrer, and Rita Moreno. Once you get to the point of counting Hector Elizondo or Erik Estrada or Jennifer Lopez it’s a relatively faint debt to the commonwealth culture as opposed to just NYC

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Is Puerto Rico just crushed economically by the high value of the dollar? I was in Bodrum, Turkey in 2009 and everybody told me I should visit a Greek island three miles off shore. I asked what it was like and they said just like here, only much more expensive. So I didn't go.

    Some of the rise of Turkey's economy in recent years has to do with Greece getting priced out by the high value of the Euro.

    , @syonredux

    Of the homegrown names most immediately recognizable to me are Benicio del Toro, Jose Ferrer, and Rita Moreno.
     
    Poor Jose Ferrer.Just look how his career was held back by evil WASPs and their anti-White Hispanic prejudices:

    Ferrer was born in San Juan, Puerto Rico, the son of María Providencia Cintrón, a woman who came from the small mountain town of Yabucoa, Puerto Rico, and Rafael Ferrer, an attorney and writer from the capital city of the island, San Juan, Puerto Rico. He was the grandson of Dr. Gabriel Ferrer Hernandez, who was a prestigious doctor and advocate of Puerto Rican independence from Spain. He studied at the prestigious Swiss boarding school Institut Le Rosey.[4] In 1933, Ferrer completed his bachelor's degree at Princeton University, where he wrote his senior thesis on "French Naturalism and Pardo Bazán". Ferrer was also a member of the Princeton Triangle Club.

    Career[edit]
    Theater[edit]
    Ferrer made his Broadway debut in 1935. In 1940, he played his first starring role on Broadway, the title role in Charley's Aunt, partly in drag. He played Iago in Margaret Webster's Broadway production of Othello (1943), which starred Paul Robeson in the title role, Webster as Emilia, and Ferrer's wife, Uta Hagen, as Desdemona. This became the longest-running production of a Shakespearean play presented in the United States, a record that it still holds. His Broadway directing credits include The Shrike, Stalag 17, The Fourposter, Twentieth Century, Carmelina, My Three Angels, and The Andersonville Trial.


    Ferrer may be best-remembered for his performance in the title role of Cyrano de Bergerac, which he first played on Broadway in 1946. Ferrer feared that the production would be a failure in rehearsals, due to the open dislike for the play by director Mel Ferrer (no relation), so he called in Joshua Logan (who had directed his star-making performance in Charley's Aunt) to serve as "play doctor" for the production. Logan wrote that he simply had to eliminate pieces of business which director Ferrer had inserted in his staging; they presumably were intended to sabotage the more sentimental elements of the play that the director considered to be corny and in bad taste.[5] The production became one of the hits of the 1946/47 Broadway season, winning Ferrer the first Best Actor Tony Award for his depiction of the long-nosed poet/swordsman (tied with Fredric March for Ruth Gordon's play about her own early years as an actress, Years Ago).
     
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  150. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @rod1963
    Yes, WASP's are apex whites according to HBD'ers. But they are also the very group that has turned the establishment against whites over the last 60+ years. However there is no tribal, clan or cultural loyalty with that lot at all. You look at the mother country of apex whites - England that is committing demographic suicide and led by the aristocratic class.

    It's clear IQ isn't enough to create a functional society with long term survival prospects.

    The hitch is the “P” in that acronym. A big chunk of the HBD Nation dittoheads, more than 1/3rd judging by online force projection, are Montanists and recusants and the sort of people who get pissed off whenever Dan Brown churns out a book. To these folks Mel Gibson is the apex white. On the other hand U.S.A. has for clear reasons always been more hospitable to Protestant moneybags, who as a matter of patrimonial honor funded lots of liberal Protestant university professors to write the history books, so one group of whitepeople’s way of life has been duly deified, albeit in the increasingly vanishing past. Cushy college jobs with 3 months of vacation and a year off after every 4 are the ultimate prize of all modern dissident movements; and you know if education had remained squarely under Vatican control where it belongs, wouldn’t have so many tenured rootless cosmopolitans over all these years — stinking up the joint with their Zionist brain-waves and culture of kvetch.

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  151. @Anonymous
    It's OT, but a couple years ago when Steve was complaining about Spanish-language TV -- I believe he was advocating a type of enabling act to enforce always-on English subtitles in all programming -- on a lark I started DVR'ing more of the channels in my package. The interesting aspect from the credits was the national origin of filmed (not talk show/news) programming: Venezuela and Colombia were easily most common, both for comedies and super-violent telenovelas, but I saw Mexican and Panamanian series in the mix (central Mexico of course has a semi-thriving boutique film industry of sorts, cf. the Oscars every other year). Chilean or Argentinian shows were rare, most likely due to their monologue-heavy PBS vibe and the fact that the actors all seem undernourished or super-sickly pale like Prince Charles II.

    Anyway considering my avid collector tendencies I was surprised over about 3 months never to catch a PR production. You'd think with the all the bueno economic ties & free-flowing investment down there, plus beautiful scenery, this wouldn't necessarily follow; but if they can't be arsed to put together a school curriculum I guess Puertowood isn't on the map yet either. Wiki's got a list of 45 movies that used the island as a location (including the original adaptation of "Lord of the Flies" btw); I already know without checking that Costa Rica sees film crews 10 times as much. Most exhaustive list of English-market uses I found was here-- naturally they're touters so they exaggerate how much time was spent getting exterior shots for "Havana" which comprised 2 1/2 minutes in the final cut:

    http://www.legendsofpr.com/blog_movies.htm

    Of the homegrown names most immediately recognizable to me are Benicio del Toro, Jose Ferrer, and Rita Moreno. Once you get to the point of counting Hector Elizondo or Erik Estrada or Jennifer Lopez it's a relatively faint debt to the commonwealth culture as opposed to just NYC

    Is Puerto Rico just crushed economically by the high value of the dollar? I was in Bodrum, Turkey in 2009 and everybody told me I should visit a Greek island three miles off shore. I asked what it was like and they said just like here, only much more expensive. So I didn’t go.

    Some of the rise of Turkey’s economy in recent years has to do with Greece getting priced out by the high value of the Euro.

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  152. @Perspective
    Probably because the average percentages are only given for the paternal line. From Wikipedia:
    "A recent study of Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) from 800 individuals found that patrilineal input, as indicated by the Y-chromosome, showed 66% of Puerto Ricans could trace their ancestry to male European ancestors, 18% could trace it to male African ancestors, and 16% could trace it to male Native American ancestors.[21] As for maternal DNA, 61.1% of those sampled were found as having Amerindian maternal mtDNA. This means that if a person could trace back in time from daughter to mother, she would eventually reach women who lived in Puerto Rico in Pre-Columbian time. The rest divides between 26.4% with female African ancestors and 12.5% with female European ancestors.[21] Both of these findings are consistent with the popular belief from historical record that male European immigrants took for themselves wives from among the native Indian and, later, black slave populations.[22]"

    Jennifer Lopez is mestizo in look, but that’s not all that common among Puerto Ricans. Before the DNA studies of this century, it was common for population anthropologists to assume that the Amerindians of pre-Columbian Puerto Rico had left no influence on current PR ancestry, but a DNA study around 2000 disproved that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    I've been to Puerto Rico 3x, north, south, east, west and central, and there are tons of girls who look like (pre-surgery) J-Lo. She would not even be remarkable walking down the street in San Juan.
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  153. syonredux says:
    @Anonymous
    It's OT, but a couple years ago when Steve was complaining about Spanish-language TV -- I believe he was advocating a type of enabling act to enforce always-on English subtitles in all programming -- on a lark I started DVR'ing more of the channels in my package. The interesting aspect from the credits was the national origin of filmed (not talk show/news) programming: Venezuela and Colombia were easily most common, both for comedies and super-violent telenovelas, but I saw Mexican and Panamanian series in the mix (central Mexico of course has a semi-thriving boutique film industry of sorts, cf. the Oscars every other year). Chilean or Argentinian shows were rare, most likely due to their monologue-heavy PBS vibe and the fact that the actors all seem undernourished or super-sickly pale like Prince Charles II.

    Anyway considering my avid collector tendencies I was surprised over about 3 months never to catch a PR production. You'd think with the all the bueno economic ties & free-flowing investment down there, plus beautiful scenery, this wouldn't necessarily follow; but if they can't be arsed to put together a school curriculum I guess Puertowood isn't on the map yet either. Wiki's got a list of 45 movies that used the island as a location (including the original adaptation of "Lord of the Flies" btw); I already know without checking that Costa Rica sees film crews 10 times as much. Most exhaustive list of English-market uses I found was here-- naturally they're touters so they exaggerate how much time was spent getting exterior shots for "Havana" which comprised 2 1/2 minutes in the final cut:

    http://www.legendsofpr.com/blog_movies.htm

    Of the homegrown names most immediately recognizable to me are Benicio del Toro, Jose Ferrer, and Rita Moreno. Once you get to the point of counting Hector Elizondo or Erik Estrada or Jennifer Lopez it's a relatively faint debt to the commonwealth culture as opposed to just NYC

    Of the homegrown names most immediately recognizable to me are Benicio del Toro, Jose Ferrer, and Rita Moreno.

    Poor Jose Ferrer.Just look how his career was held back by evil WASPs and their anti-White Hispanic prejudices:

    Ferrer was born in San Juan, Puerto Rico, the son of María Providencia Cintrón, a woman who came from the small mountain town of Yabucoa, Puerto Rico, and Rafael Ferrer, an attorney and writer from the capital city of the island, San Juan, Puerto Rico. He was the grandson of Dr. Gabriel Ferrer Hernandez, who was a prestigious doctor and advocate of Puerto Rican independence from Spain. He studied at the prestigious Swiss boarding school Institut Le Rosey.[4] In 1933, Ferrer completed his bachelor’s degree at Princeton University, where he wrote his senior thesis on “French Naturalism and Pardo Bazán”. Ferrer was also a member of the Princeton Triangle Club.

    Career[edit]
    Theater[edit]
    Ferrer made his Broadway debut in 1935. In 1940, he played his first starring role on Broadway, the title role in Charley’s Aunt, partly in drag. He played Iago in Margaret Webster’s Broadway production of Othello (1943), which starred Paul Robeson in the title role, Webster as Emilia, and Ferrer’s wife, Uta Hagen, as Desdemona. This became the longest-running production of a Shakespearean play presented in the United States, a record that it still holds. His Broadway directing credits include The Shrike, Stalag 17, The Fourposter, Twentieth Century, Carmelina, My Three Angels, and The Andersonville Trial.

    Ferrer may be best-remembered for his performance in the title role of Cyrano de Bergerac, which he first played on Broadway in 1946. Ferrer feared that the production would be a failure in rehearsals, due to the open dislike for the play by director Mel Ferrer (no relation), so he called in Joshua Logan (who had directed his star-making performance in Charley’s Aunt) to serve as “play doctor” for the production. Logan wrote that he simply had to eliminate pieces of business which director Ferrer had inserted in his staging; they presumably were intended to sabotage the more sentimental elements of the play that the director considered to be corny and in bad taste.[5] The production became one of the hits of the 1946/47 Broadway season, winning Ferrer the first Best Actor Tony Award for his depiction of the long-nosed poet/swordsman (tied with Fredric March for Ruth Gordon’s play about her own early years as an actress, Years Ago).

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  154. Truth says:
    @Jefferson
    If Puerto Rico truly was a predominantly White island, they would be as culturally and economically prosperous as other first world islands like Singapore, Great Britain, Ireland, and Hong Kong. Hong Kong has more millionaires per capita than The United States. What positive statistic can Puerto Rico brag about?

    Ireland is economically prosperous?

    Read More
    • Replies: @iSteveFan
    Ireland is 23rd in per capita GDP, ahead of both Canada and Australia.
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  155. Truth says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Jennifer Lopez is mestizo in look, but that's not all that common among Puerto Ricans. Before the DNA studies of this century, it was common for population anthropologists to assume that the Amerindians of pre-Columbian Puerto Rico had left no influence on current PR ancestry, but a DNA study around 2000 disproved that.

    I’ve been to Puerto Rico 3x, north, south, east, west and central, and there are tons of girls who look like (pre-surgery) J-Lo. She would not even be remarkable walking down the street in San Juan.

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  156. Ed says:
    @Jefferson
    "Puerto Ricans have been in the U.S for over a hundred years, and the vast majority were always considered white."

    So the vast majority of Puerto Ricans in New York City, Newark, Miami, Philadelphia, Chicago, and Orlando are considered White and not NAM? Phenotype wise most of the time do you have an extremely hard time telling Puerto Ricans apart from Mayflower Anglo Saxon Protestants?

    In WW2 Puerto Ricans that weren’t obviously black served in white units. Puerto Ricans that were black served in black units. Not sure what the % of Puerto Rican WW2 soldiers served in black units but seems like a good place to ballpark % of Puerto Ricans that would be considered “white” overall in mainland USA.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dcite
    Years ago, when Richard Pryor was just a pup appearing on daytime tv, he said he used to straighten his hair when he was in the military, because he said it was "tough" being black in the military and he would pass for PR. That's what he said. So in my child innocence, I took two things from that remark: it wasn't "tough" if you were PR; and RP looked PR enough to pass if he straightened his hair.
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  157. @JohnnyWalker123
    I thought it more like half, but this newest study found that Puerto Ricans are 65% white, 12% Native, and 20% black. I assume maybe the remainder are Asian?

    So that'd imply that PR is ethnically pretty similar to the U.S. Their low test scores (and high rates of dysfunctional behaviors like illegitimacy, homicide, and welfare abuse) really can't be fully attributed to black ancestry, as previously theorized.

    I guess PR represents an example of a very low-performing, predominately white country. It'd be interesting to discern what went wrong. Ron Unz once pointed out that Argentina and some of the other predominately white Latin nations under performed what ancestry alone would suggest, so maybe there's something else going on? Why do mostly-white Latinos do so badly so often?

    The interesting thing is that Africans and Afro-Carribeans academically do a lot better than ancestry would suggest, both in the US and the UK. In places like New York City,black Jamaican kids are outperforming their white PR classmates substantially. HBD would never have predicted that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBbA9wXh4M

    I have to correct myself.

    If US blacks are 1/5th white, then our “average” American might be around 10% black. If we factor in Afro-Latino ancestry, maybe 11% black. If PR is 20% black by ancestry, then that’s about twice what we see in the U.S. That’s substantial obviously, but that still doesn’t fully explain PR’s under performance.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    A completely disingenuous way of looking at things.
    The 'black' genetic component of the broad mass of the us population is, in the main, sequestered away amongst the 12% of the population that self describes as 'black'.
    The broad mass of 'white' Americans, which still make up around 60% of the population, have no SS African genetics whatsoever.

    However, it appears that virtually *every* individual Puerto Rican has SS African genetics, 'averaging' around 12% or so. Some have markedly more, some slightly less, but virtually all of them have black African genetics.
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  158. @Jefferson
    Puerto Ricans in New York City on average side with African Americans over Non Hispanic White Gringo Americans when it comes to racial conflicts.

    Like the scene in "Do The Right Thing" where the Puerto Rican Yoofs sided with Radio Raheem over pizzeria owner Salvatore Fragione. Those Boricua Yoofs participated with African Americans in the looting and burning down of Sal's pizzeria.

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  159. Converting NAEP scores into IQ estimates for Puerto Rican 8th graders yields 71.4. The score for math is on a 500 point scale with a standard deviation of 37. We can convert these into IQ estimates with a mean of 98–corresponding to the national average NAEP scores of 283.62 for math–and an assumed standard deviation of 15 to get there. That’s sub-Saharan Africa low, too low to be credulous. Something else in the educational system has to provide the explanation.

    Also, private schools were represented in statewide scores. Not sure if there was an exception for Puerto Rico, though.

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  160. iSteveFan says:
    @Truth
    Ireland is economically prosperous?

    Ireland is 23rd in per capita GDP, ahead of both Canada and Australia.

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  161. dcite says:
    @Jack D
    You see this in a lot of Latin American countries, but Argentina is extreme because their national character runs to fantasy. So an Argentine might see himself as a "European" even if when he looks in the mirror he sees a short brownish sort of guy (and that's what the Argentine masses look like, esp. outside of Buenos Aires).

    It is ironic that white Americans often invent Amerindian ancestry when none exists (this even predates the current fad for transracialism), while Argentines deny their very real and significant ancestry. In old Virginy it was the subject of boasting, not shame, if you could say that you had a little Pocahontas in your family tree, but in Argentina where people have more than a little Indian in them they pretend that they don't have any. Because indigenous people were largely wiped out in the Eastern US, it was possible to imagine a fantasy version of them as noble warriors of whom you would be proud to be descended, instead of poor, smelly native women that you slept with because you didn't have enough status to get a European wife.

    The general pattern in Latin America is that the population is the product of male Europeans mating with indigenous females. This also appears to be the origin of Ashkenazi Jews in Europe, but the Jews got the better deal since European genes appear to have improved their intelligence.

    Have you seen many Argentines? The stereotype that occurs to me is a normal sized, rather Italianate individual. I thought the men good looking on the average, and the ladies are among the most beautiful anywhere. They age very well too. There are a lot of Germans and non-Med Euros in Argentina as well. I don’t think people on this thread have been there or seen many. Since we’re all talking about “impressions”, mine is that they are overwhelmingly European, and the rest is inconsequential. Not all predominantly white countries have been economic powerhouses. They do better than most 3rd world places, but Canada or Denmark, they are not. Scandinavia was considered a rather poor backwater in the 19th century.

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    • Replies: @keypusher
    I have. If you go north, e.g. to Salta, the prevalence of Amerindian ancestry becomes obvious. I was surprised by this the first time I went, since I then thought that Argentines were more or less as European as white norteamericanos.
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  162. dcite says:
    @Ed
    In WW2 Puerto Ricans that weren't obviously black served in white units. Puerto Ricans that were black served in black units. Not sure what the % of Puerto Rican WW2 soldiers served in black units but seems like a good place to ballpark % of Puerto Ricans that would be considered "white" overall in mainland USA.

    Years ago, when Richard Pryor was just a pup appearing on daytime tv, he said he used to straighten his hair when he was in the military, because he said it was “tough” being black in the military and he would pass for PR. That’s what he said. So in my child innocence, I took two things from that remark: it wasn’t “tough” if you were PR; and RP looked PR enough to pass if he straightened his hair.

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  163. attilathehen [AKA "Matilda"] says:
    @bigboy
    Allegedly Geraldo Rivera's father has some African ancestry. I've heard from a reliable Puerto Rican source that Gerlado has claimed to have a black grandfather or great-grandfather on his Puerto Rican side. Not sure how true this is. His father may have Amerindian anestry as well. There's an Amerindian component to Puerto Ricans

    Most Puerto Ricans aren't black, but if 90% of Puerto Ricans have African ancestry (do you have a source for this assertion), then that 90% would include people who are predominantly European in appearance and ancestry.

    I’ve heard that claim about Geraldo also and some black grandfather. The Amerindian in Puerto Ricans is tiny and of little importance. The black African aspect is what dominates their culture and race. I’ve known several PRs over my life and from physical appearance alone they fall into a 90% black looking or 10% white (Ricky Martin types). In several history books I’ve read about Latin American countries, the 90% black ancestry was used for PRs. Another fact is how many PR-Jewish hybrids there are in New York City. The PR ascendancy is bizarre considering how many of the PRs (Jennifer Lopez, Jimmy Smits, Rita Moreno are black). But Jennifer Lopez has a sister married to a Jew, Rita Moreno’s husband is Jewish. Freddie Prinze and Freddie Prinze Jr. (married to Sarah Michelle Gellar – Jewish) are PR and Jewish. Geraldo Rivera’s mother is Jewish. I have noticed this pattern – Jewish- PR- black Americans and now Asians for 20 years now. Geraldo Rivera’s mother has given him a slight iq advantage, but he is nothing special. Also, he now considers himself Jewish.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    I’ve known several PRs over my life and from physical appearance alone they fall into a 90% black looking or 10% white (Ricky Martin types).
     
    Ricky Martin looks 90% black to you?

    http://feelgrafix.com/949635-ricky-martin.html
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  164. @Truth

    Admixture studies show that PRs are half-white by ancestry,
     
    This is not true, the average PR is considered to be about 90% white, 8% black and 2% Indian.

    This is not true, the average PR is considered to be about 90% white, 8% black and 2% Indian.

    That is the funniest thing you’ve ever posted. I have no idea what people on the island look like, but those I’ve encountered in the 50 states seem to average about 60% Black, 15% Indian, 15% Jewish, and 10% White.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Where did these PR's get their Jewish blood and how could you tell? Did you test their DNA? Did they confide to you that they craved the blood of Christian children with which to make their mofongo?
    , @syonredux

    That is the funniest thing you’ve ever posted. I have no idea what people on the island look like, but those I’ve encountered in the 50 states seem to average about 60% Black, 15% Indian, 15% Jewish, and 10% White.
     
    If you are going to parse-out the White fraction, then you should really do it for everyone:

    "seem to average about 60% Black, 15% Indian, 15% Jewish, and 10% Iberian."
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  165. @Hippopotamusdrome


    Ron Unz once pointed out that Argentina and some of the other predominately white Latin nations under performed what ancestry alone would suggest

     

    Argentina isn't white like Wisconsin. More like our lighter Hispanics. Argentinia isn't so bad. If you had to live in a South American country, which would you choose? Columbia? Venuzuelia? It would be high on the list.

    Per capita GDP -

    Argentina: 14,715.18 USD
    Mexico: 10,307.28 USD
    Chile: 15,732.31 USD
    Uruguay: 16,350.73 USD
    Brazil: 11,208.08 USD

    Uruguay is (by ancestry) 84% Euro, 10% Amerind, and 6% black. It also has a homicide rate of 8/100,000.

    Latin countries seem to under perform what their ancestry would indicate. PR just happens to be a more extreme example.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "Latin countries seem to under perform what their ancestry would indicate. PR just happens to be a more extreme example."

    But it's the American example of a Latin country, and that's ominous. Perhaps the combination of American laws and Latin population is the worst underachiever of all?
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  166. @Anonymous
    but what about the CHUPACABRA?

    Puerto Rico is generally recognized as a forward base for unsuitable chupacabra/human multiculturalism

    there may be a causal relationship discernible between these axes...but which two should be selected i.e.: IQ, chupacabra, (log)chupacabra, chupacabras under a log, human cuts down log with axes thus injuring chupacabra

    perhaps, not a braindrain, but a brain suck is in effect...can we still afford to disregard the depictions in so many songs, purporting to warn of chupacabras slipping soda straws into drunk or sleeping Puerto Rican ears so as to slurp up tasty glia like a vacuum cleaner running through spilled pudding ...(in particular tapioca) ???

    but what about the CHUPACABRA?

    Chupacabras, like tocadiscos.

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  167. @Steve Sailer
    My vague impression is that Cuba got the more on-the-go sort of Spaniard, while Puerto Rico was considered a rural backwater.

    For example, in the 1920s, the world chess champion was a Cuban native, Capablanca.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Ra%C3%BAl_Capablanca

    My impression is that nobody at the time was particularly astonished that the world's best chess player was from Cuba. It would be kind of like if he were an Argentinean.

    It will be interesting to find out how much human capital Cuba has left.

    Cuba has a homicide rate 0f just 5 per 100,000 and a life expectancy of 79.1 years (higher than the US), despite having a population with substantial African ancestry. So that’s a good sign.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    First of all, never trust Communist statistics.

    2nd, Cubans are, unlike Americans, not obese, simply because they can't afford to eat until they are fat. Nor can they afford to smoke or drink a lot. When you add to that the fact that Castro really did spend considerable resources on public health, that adds up to a pretty good life expectancy. Now if we could figure out how to restrict the access of the American underclass to fatty foods, tobacco, drugs and alcohol, our average life expectancy might start looking better too.

    3rd, when you like in a police state, there are lots of police, so there is less violent crime.
    , @Anonymous
    Yup.
    And it's also got 'typical' wages of around 4 dollars per week.
    , @Brutusale
    Per the latest CIA Factbook, Cuba ranks 59th with a 78.22 year average life expectancy. The US is 42nd at 79.56 years.

    What the Hell is in the water in Monaco? Average life expectancy is 89.57 years!
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  168. @Nico
    There's so much here I don't know where to start.

    ... this newest study found that Puerto Ricans are 65% white, 12% Native, and 20% black.
     
    No doubt those figures are based on self-identification. How many Puerto Ricans have you actually seen, either Stateside or on the Island? Puerto Rico is a Latin American society where racial identity runs along a mestizo-mulatto spectrum, not a "one-drop" rule. To the extent that "one drop" EVER applies in the Caribbean, it is those with any appreciable European ancestry who discreetly identify as white - the opposite of how it is in America.

    When a Puerto Rican says he is white and I say I am white, we are both talking English, but we sure ain't speaking the same language.

    Ron Unz once pointed out that Argentina and some of the other predominately white Latin nations under performed what ancestry alone would suggest, so maybe there’s something else going on? Why do mostly-white Latinos do so badly so often?
     
    CLEARLY there's something else going on. But do you think that Sailer or anyone else who seriously believes in HBD thinks otherwise? Even such a highly genetically-loaded trait as eye color still assumes certain inputs of water, oxygen, nutrients, etc. to achieve expression.

    Genetics might not explain why in the 20th century Argentina did so poorly in terms of standards of living while the U.S. did so well, but they sure might have something to do with the fact that Argentines in the U.S. do so systematically much better than Stateside Puerto Ricans. Of course, elite selection and education (but see below) no doubt play a major part, as well. Read on:

    The interesting thing is that Africans and Afro-Carribeans academically do a lot better than ancestry would suggest, both in the US and the UK. In places like New York City,black Jamaican kids are outperforming their white PR classmates substantially. HBD would never have predicted that.
     
    We've had this discussion before. First of all, as I stated above (and have repeated numerous times on these pages), no one serious believes in biological determinism anymore, which is what you appear to mean when you say "HBD." Second, the Africans who find their way onto U.S. shores are definitely NOT representative of the medians of their respective countries. You can't compare apples to oranges.

    Lastly, the Jamaican education system was put in place and the structural foundations laid by the British. Idem for American schools whose student bodies are predominantly black: if white, Anglo-Americans do not actually administer such schools, without their framework they would simply not exist in their present form. Puerto Ricans, on the other hand, set up their own education system, and have continued it with little attention or surveillance (due to the language barrier) from the U.S. government. If you put American blacks in a situation where they had little access to the pedagogical heritage of Anglo-American public schools, and had to start their own from scratch, you would likely see similar results.

    No doubt those figures are based on self-identification.

    No, those figures are based on testing. See the link from Truth.

    http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2014/07/25/genographic-project-dna-results-reveal-details-of-puerto-rican-history/

    Second, the Africans who find their way onto U.S. shores are definitely NOT representative of the medians of their respective countries. You can’t compare apples to oranges.

    Regression to the mean should’ve kicked in by the second/third generation, especially with the British Jamaicans.

    We do get lots of poor and uneducated African refugees from primitive places. From what I’ve seen, even their kids often do well. I couldn’t quantify it though.

    Lastly, the Jamaican education system was put in place and the structural foundations laid by the British.

    The British left Jamaica a long time ago.

    Yet the Jamaican immigrant children are doing pretty well in NYC and London.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    In London, England, 'Jamaican' kids of the third to fourth generation, even, are best known for their proclivity for going around and stabbing people to death rather than their academic prowess.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome

    Yet the Jamaican immigrant children are doing pretty well in NYC and London.
     
    London riots of 2011 started when Jamaican gang member was shot by police.

    2011 England riots
    a protest in Tottenham, north London, following the death of Mark Duggan, a local who was shot dead by police
    ...
    Along with the five deaths, at least 16 others were injured as a direct result of related violent acts. An estimated £200 million worth of property damage was incurred
     

    Posing with a killer and a gangster, 'family man' Mark Duggan whose death led to 2011 summer riots
    Duggan pictured with Junior Cameron who is serving a life sentence for murder and Darrell Albert who is serving life for attempted murder
    All three were members of the notorious Tottenham Man Dem gang
    Duggan was known by his gangster name of Starrish Mark and was considered by police to be a 'major player' in the gang
    ...
    Cameron, Albert and Duggan were all members of the notorious Tottenham Man Dem gang, which has links to Jamaica’s ruthless Yardies.
     

    (Mark-Duggan) Violence, drugs, a fatal stabbing and a most unlikely martyr
    Mark Duggan was part of a gang with links to Jamaica's ruthless 'Yardies'
    ...
    Duggan himself, according to some residents, was a crack cocaine dealer who routinely carried a gun.
    ...
    The Star Gang is an offshoot of Tottenham’s ‘Man dem’ gang which has links with Jamaica’s ruthless Yardie gangsters.
    ...
    Back in the late Nineties, ‘Man dem’, whose ‘territory’ included Broadwater Farm (where Duggan grew up, remember), controlled dozens of ‘crack houses’ and its psychopathic members or ‘soldiers’, as they styled themselves, were believed to be behind countless shootings, robberies, kidnappings and gangland killings.
    ...
    One photo circulating the internet shows Duggan making a ‘gangsta’ gun pose with his fingers. In others, he is wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with the words ‘Star Gang’.
     

    2011 England Riots: Statistics of Ethnicity
    Black Africans and Afro-Carribeans. No riots occurred in areas that were far away from large concentrations of black population.
     
    , @Hippopotamusdrome

    Yet the Jamaican immigrant children are doing pretty well in NYC and London.
     
    Jamaican riots in 1981 England:

    1981 Toxteth riots (UK)
    the rioting lasted nine days during which 468 police officers were injured ... 70 buildings were damaged so severely by fire that they had to be demolished. Around 100 cars were destroyed, and there was extensive looting of shops.
     

    1981 Brixton riot (UK)
    280* injuries to police and 45* injuries to members of the public; over a hundred vehicles were burned, including 56 police vehicles; and almost 150 buildings were damaged, with thirty burned.
     

    Scarman Report 1981

    At the time when Brixton underwent deep social and economic problems — high unemployment, high crime, poor housing, no amenities — in a predominantly African-Caribbean community. The Metropolitan Police began Operation Swamp 81 at the beginning of April, aimed at reducing street crime
    ...
    The Scarman report highlighted problems of racial disadvantage and inner city decline, warning that "urgent action" was needed to prevent racial disadvantage becoming an "endemic, ineradicable disease threatening the very survival of our society".
    ...
    Scarman found unquestionable evidence of the disproportionate and indiscriminate use of 'stop and search' powers by the police against black people.
    ...
    Scarman recommended changes in training and law enforcement, and the recruitment of more ethnic minorities into the police force. According to the report "institutional racism" did not exist, but positive discrimination to tackle racial disadvantage was "a price worth paying".
     
    , @ben tillman

    No, those figures are based on testing. See the link from Truth.

    http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2014/07/25/genographic-project-dna-results-reveal-details-of-puerto-rican-history/
     
    They are based on testing but not on testing of a cross-section of Puerto Ricans. They tested "326 individuals from southeastern Puerto Rico and Vieques". So, no, the testing does nothing to dispel the reasonable inference that the 66%-white figure is not even close to reality.
    , @ben tillman

    Regression to the mean should’ve kicked in by the second/third generation, especially with the British Jamaicans.
     
    Everybody talks about it, but nobody can explain how this regression to the mean actually happens. One commenter made a good effort once, and it was helpful, but the ultimate takeaway was that the "mean" that is regressed to isn't necessarily the racial mean.
    , @Nico

    No, those figures are based on testing. See the link from Truth.
     
    The article doesn't support the implication you seem to be making that most Puerto Ricans are what mainland Americans would consider white:

    "The average Puerto Rican individual carries 12% Native American, 65% West Eurasian (Mediterranean, Northern European and/or Middle Eastern) and 20% Sub-Saharan African DNA."

    I have met a few Puerto Ricans whose phenotype was virtually indistinguishable from that of one of various European countries. In the vast majority however the African and/or Carib influence on phenotype was immediately noticeable. They would never pass for "white" in mainland United States, regardless of whether you, yourself, think they "should." There are individual Puerto Ricans of more or less unmixed white European lineage, but on the whole the country is very mixed, and that mixing tends to show quite readily in their phenotypes.


    Regression to the mean should’ve kicked in by the second/third generation, especially with the British Jamaicans.
     
    Regression toward the mean is a trend, not a force that "kicks in." It does not describe a simple, random or linear progress. In real life, the implications of the trend for any individual member of a set tend to be far quirkier than you imply. With respect to predictions it is a mistake to blindly graft statistical analyses of a large whole to small subpopulations or much less particular cases, especially if such cases or subpopulations have ways of remaining isolated from certain more "mean" members of the larger set. Your position here betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept, in particular of subpopulation mean differentials. Steve has an article from 27 January 2013 that touches on the subject specifically with respect to IQ.
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  169. @Jefferson
    "In places like New York City,black Jamaican kids are outperforming their white PR classmates"

    Hahahahaha, you have to be smoking that 420 if you believe most K-12 Puerto Ricans in New York City's public schools are White.

    Here is what the typical phenotypes are of Puerto Rican kids in New York City's urban inner city K-12 public schools. They don't exactly racially look like the kids on Little House On The Prairie and Eight Is Enough.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgyN4p7K0LE

    The very poor academic performance of Puerto Rican kids in New York City's K-12 public schools is not because most of them are White trash, it is because most of them are People Of Color.

    According to the study done on PR, the racial composition is about 2/3 white by ancestry. They may not look white, but maybe that’s because lots of them are tanned from the sunny weather. Also, lots of Spanish people look ethnic.

    The point is that a country with 2/3 white ancestry shouldn’t be under performing American blacks, if we use a purely HBD-based model. There must be a cultural component to their failure and perhaps a cultural component to the success of African and Jamaican immigrants.

    Of course, if performance can vary that much based on culture, it’d be interesting to deduce how much African and Latino under performance is based on culture. Is the 1.1
    standard deviation white-black gap a constant?

    I’d like answers to these questions.

    Ron Unz has argued extensively that Mexican under performance has more to do with culture than genetics.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "They may not look white, but maybe that’s because lots of them are tanned from the sunny weather."

    Southern states like Mississippi and Louisiana also have year round sunny weather, so why are White people in the South not as tanned as the average Puerto Rican?

    The reason most Puerto Ricans are tanned is because they average 20 percent Negro ancestry, not because of the sunny weather.

    " Also, lots of Spanish people look ethnic."

    Most Puerto Ricans get their ethnic look from being racial Mutts, not from hanging out at the beach all day. The vast majority of Puerto Ricans do not resemble White Australian surfers who hang out at the beach all day.

    , @Hippopotamusdrome

    The point is that a country with 2/3 white ancestry shouldn’t be under performing American blacks, if we use a purely HBD-based model.
     
    It's a clash of the one-drop rules. A Latin American who signifigantly black can be cansidered white. In America he is black.


    the average African American is 80 percent sub-Saharan African, 19 percent European

     

    So it's a 66% white PR vs. a 19% white American "black".
    , @Nico

    They may not look white, but maybe that’s because lots of them are tanned from the sunny weather.
     
    I'm a Floridian of 100% European ancestry (or at least I look like I am). White people who live in closer-to-equatorial latitudes are usually NOT very tan, at least not nearly as much as the Jersey girls who invade every winter. There are two reasons for this. The first is that tanning is a viscerally unpleasant experience in the tropics. Ten minutes outside with no or inadequate sunblock around about summer solstice and that will be the last time you ever forget.

    The second is a consequence of the first. Because the sun is so harsh, historically people who could stay out of it, did. Hence a social-aesthetic hierarchy arose among whites, between the peaches-and-cream unblemished complexioned aristocrats and the "rednecks" who had to work for a living.

    With this speculation, you reveal yourself to be nothing more than an impish, ignorant little troll. Now that you've been exposed here, maybe you'll go grace some other sucker with your FUD, somewhere else.
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  170. @Jefferson
    Hey Johnny Walker, here are the phenotypes of the most wanted criminals in Puerto Rico.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCwHlm_4OfI

    The phenotypes of the Puerto Rican street gang The Netas.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxm32sQQngY

    Johnny Walker you still believe Puerto Rico is a dysfunctional high crime society because it's supposed "Whiteness"? If that were true, why doesn't Spain have these same social problems?

    Hey Johnny Walker, here are the phenotypes of the most wanted criminals in Puerto Rico.

    They look like a tri-racial blend of white, black, and indigenous ancestry.

    If we assume a white-NAM criminality gap in PR, then we’d expect the average PR criminal to be less white than the average PR. PR has a homicide rate of 26/100,000, so that’s a lot worse than ethnic makeup would predict.

    Those PR criminals do seem to have substantial white ancestry, which may imply the two points I’m trying to make:

    1. White PRs are doing quite badly too.
    2. PR is a predominately white country, with a substantial NAM component.

    Johnny Walker you still believe Puerto Rico is a dysfunctional high crime society because it’s supposed “Whiteness”

    \

    No, but I believe that PR whites are extreme under performers.

    If that were true, why doesn’t Spain have these same social problems?

    Good question. I’d like an answer to that too.

    84% white Uruguay has similar under performance issues.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "2. PR is a predominately white country,"

    Puerto Rico is not a predominantly White island, Puerto Rico predominantly Racial Mutt island.

    Do you know of any country in Europe where the average person has 20 percent Sub Saharan African DNA?

    , @Steve Sailer
    Puerto Rico underperforms its genetics on a lot of metrics. I don't know why, but it would be worth figuring out since immigration is making America more like Puerto Rico.
    , @Jefferson
    "2. PR is a predominately white country"

    This is how you know Puerto Ricans are not a White ethnic group, former NAACP chairman Benjamin Jealous is genetically more Caucasoid than the average Puerto Rican. Benjamin Jealous is genetically 80 percent Caucasoid while the average Puerto Rican is only 60%-65% Caucasoid.

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  171. Jack D says:
    @ben tillman

    This is not true, the average PR is considered to be about 90% white, 8% black and 2% Indian.
     
    That is the funniest thing you've ever posted. I have no idea what people on the island look like, but those I've encountered in the 50 states seem to average about 60% Black, 15% Indian, 15% Jewish, and 10% White.

    Where did these PR’s get their Jewish blood and how could you tell? Did you test their DNA? Did they confide to you that they craved the blood of Christian children with which to make their mofongo?

    Read More
    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Where did these PR’s get their Jewish blood and how could you tell? Did you test their DNA? Did they confide to you that they craved the blood of Christian children with which to make their mofongo?
     
    Where did they get their Jewish blood? From Jewish ancestors!

    Jews have been in Puerto Rico since the 1490's.
    , @Jo
    I am one of those who are part Jew. I found out through family and immigration registries. My paternal grandfather's mother was a crypto-Jew; her family fled Burgos because they were Jewish. The great grandfather was adopted into a Sephardi Jew family, and came to PR at a young age. By the time he was in his 30's he converted to Xtianity.
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  172. Jack D says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Cuba has a homicide rate 0f just 5 per 100,000 and a life expectancy of 79.1 years (higher than the US), despite having a population with substantial African ancestry. So that's a good sign.

    First of all, never trust Communist statistics.

    2nd, Cubans are, unlike Americans, not obese, simply because they can’t afford to eat until they are fat. Nor can they afford to smoke or drink a lot. When you add to that the fact that Castro really did spend considerable resources on public health, that adds up to a pretty good life expectancy. Now if we could figure out how to restrict the access of the American underclass to fatty foods, tobacco, drugs and alcohol, our average life expectancy might start looking better too.

    3rd, when you like in a police state, there are lots of police, so there is less violent crime.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    The World Health Organization claims Cuba has a life expectancy of 78, so the Cuban govt isn’t fudging the statistics by that much.

    3rd, when you like in a police state, there are lots of police, so there is less violent crime.

     

    Cuba has an incarceration rate of 510/100,000. For American whites, the incarceration rate is 450/100,000 and the black rate is about 3,000/100,000. So they’re not that repressive, relative to what racial demographics would suggest.
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  173. @Jack D
    First of all, never trust Communist statistics.

    2nd, Cubans are, unlike Americans, not obese, simply because they can't afford to eat until they are fat. Nor can they afford to smoke or drink a lot. When you add to that the fact that Castro really did spend considerable resources on public health, that adds up to a pretty good life expectancy. Now if we could figure out how to restrict the access of the American underclass to fatty foods, tobacco, drugs and alcohol, our average life expectancy might start looking better too.

    3rd, when you like in a police state, there are lots of police, so there is less violent crime.

    The World Health Organization claims Cuba has a life expectancy of 78, so the Cuban govt isn’t fudging the statistics by that much.

    3rd, when you like in a police state, there are lots of police, so there is less violent crime.

    Cuba has an incarceration rate of 510/100,000. For American whites, the incarceration rate is 450/100,000 and the black rate is about 3,000/100,000. So they’re not that repressive, relative to what racial demographics would suggest.

    Read More
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  174. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @JohnnyWalker123
    I have to correct myself.

    If US blacks are 1/5th white, then our "average" American might be around 10% black. If we factor in Afro-Latino ancestry, maybe 11% black. If PR is 20% black by ancestry, then that's about twice what we see in the U.S. That's substantial obviously, but that still doesn't fully explain PR's under performance.

    A completely disingenuous way of looking at things.
    The ‘black’ genetic component of the broad mass of the us population is, in the main, sequestered away amongst the 12% of the population that self describes as ‘black’.
    The broad mass of ‘white’ Americans, which still make up around 60% of the population, have no SS African genetics whatsoever.

    However, it appears that virtually *every* individual Puerto Rican has SS African genetics, ‘averaging’ around 12% or so. Some have markedly more, some slightly less, but virtually all of them have black African genetics.

    Read More
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  175. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Cuba has a homicide rate 0f just 5 per 100,000 and a life expectancy of 79.1 years (higher than the US), despite having a population with substantial African ancestry. So that's a good sign.

    Yup.
    And it’s also got ‘typical’ wages of around 4 dollars per week.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Communism.
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  176. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    No doubt those figures are based on self-identification.
     
    No, those figures are based on testing. See the link from Truth.

    http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2014/07/25/genographic-project-dna-results-reveal-details-of-puerto-rican-history/

    Second, the Africans who find their way onto U.S. shores are definitely NOT representative of the medians of their respective countries. You can’t compare apples to oranges.

     

    Regression to the mean should've kicked in by the second/third generation, especially with the British Jamaicans.

    We do get lots of poor and uneducated African refugees from primitive places. From what I've seen, even their kids often do well. I couldn't quantify it though.

    Lastly, the Jamaican education system was put in place and the structural foundations laid by the British.

     

    The British left Jamaica a long time ago.

    Yet the Jamaican immigrant children are doing pretty well in NYC and London.

    In London, England, ‘Jamaican’ kids of the third to fourth generation, even, are best known for their proclivity for going around and stabbing people to death rather than their academic prowess.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Afro-Caribbean kids score about 0.4 standard deviations below the White British mean, which is pretty good. Also, 12% black London has a homicide rate of 1.6/100,000, which is much lower than 8% black Seattle or 6% black Portland.

    Afro-Caribbeans are outperforming their native mean substantially.
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  177. Jefferson says:
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Hey Johnny Walker, here are the phenotypes of the most wanted criminals in Puerto Rico.

     

    They look like a tri-racial blend of white, black, and indigenous ancestry.

    If we assume a white-NAM criminality gap in PR, then we'd expect the average PR criminal to be less white than the average PR. PR has a homicide rate of 26/100,000, so that's a lot worse than ethnic makeup would predict.

    Those PR criminals do seem to have substantial white ancestry, which may imply the two points I'm trying to make:

    1. White PRs are doing quite badly too.
    2. PR is a predominately white country, with a substantial NAM component.

    Johnny Walker you still believe Puerto Rico is a dysfunctional high crime society because it’s supposed “Whiteness”
     
    \

    No, but I believe that PR whites are extreme under performers.

    If that were true, why doesn’t Spain have these same social problems?
     
    Good question. I'd like an answer to that too.

    84% white Uruguay has similar under performance issues.

    “2. PR is a predominately white country,”

    Puerto Rico is not a predominantly White island, Puerto Rico predominantly Racial Mutt island.

    Do you know of any country in Europe where the average person has 20 percent Sub Saharan African DNA?

    Read More
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  178. Jefferson says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    According to the study done on PR, the racial composition is about 2/3 white by ancestry. They may not look white, but maybe that's because lots of them are tanned from the sunny weather. Also, lots of Spanish people look ethnic.

    The point is that a country with 2/3 white ancestry shouldn't be under performing American blacks, if we use a purely HBD-based model. There must be a cultural component to their failure and perhaps a cultural component to the success of African and Jamaican immigrants.

    Of course, if performance can vary that much based on culture, it'd be interesting to deduce how much African and Latino under performance is based on culture. Is the 1.1
    standard deviation white-black gap a constant?

    I'd like answers to these questions.

    Ron Unz has argued extensively that Mexican under performance has more to do with culture than genetics.

    “They may not look white, but maybe that’s because lots of them are tanned from the sunny weather.”

    Southern states like Mississippi and Louisiana also have year round sunny weather, so why are White people in the South not as tanned as the average Puerto Rican?

    The reason most Puerto Ricans are tanned is because they average 20 percent Negro ancestry, not because of the sunny weather.

    ” Also, lots of Spanish people look ethnic.”

    Most Puerto Ricans get their ethnic look from being racial Mutts, not from hanging out at the beach all day. The vast majority of Puerto Ricans do not resemble White Australian surfers who hang out at the beach all day.

    Read More
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  179. Anonym says:
    @Anon
    Hi, I'm for Truth Equality.

    But too many people privilege truth over lies.

    That is unfair to us liars.

    It is unfair to say liars are not equal in truth with truth-tellers.

    It discriminates against liars.

    Who is to say a lie isn't just as good a truth?

    Saying that truth is better than a lie is saying that a truth-teller is better than a liar.
    Some people assure us that it is not a crime to lie and that we liars shouldn't complain since we liars are tolerated in society. But tolerance isn't enough. We liars need to be welcomed, praised, celebrated, honored, and glorified. We need to be associated with rainbow colors.

    If a man says he is a woman because he had his penis cut off and replaced with a fake vagina, some people would say he is lying. But under Truth Equality, his lie would be equal to the truth. And that would be justice.

    If a man said his anus or fecal organ is just as much a sexual organ as a woman's vagina, some would say he is lying. But so what? A lie is as good as a truth if we commit ourselves to the principle of Truth Equality.

    If I'm a Mexican woman but insist that I'm a Nigerian man after I put on an Afro, blacken my skin, and wear men's clothes, then some people would call me a liar, but under the principle of Truth Equality, my lie would be as good as any truth. That is justice.

    And if I say my counterfeit money is as good as real money, that should be accepted also under the principle of Truth Equality. Why should society privilege truth over lies? Why should social institutions favor truth-tellers over liars?

    Indeed, we should come up with a new name for 'lies' and 'liars'. Just like illegal aliens are now called 'undocumented immigrants', lies should be called 'unverified or uncertain truths'. And liars should be called 'creative truth-tellers'.

    Suppose I say George Zimmerman is a 'southern white male'. Some people would say it is a lie, but in fact, it is just an unverified or uncertain truth. And if people call me a liar, I would defend myself as a 'creative truth-teller'. And if we want to believe that all those black attackers who are playing the knockout game are 'teens' and 'youths', that is just creative truth-telling.

    And that is the path to real justice.

    Orwellian in its genius. Don’t give them any ideas.

    Read More
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  180. @JohnnyWalker123


    Hey Johnny Walker, here are the phenotypes of the most wanted criminals in Puerto Rico.

     

    They look like a tri-racial blend of white, black, and indigenous ancestry.

    If we assume a white-NAM criminality gap in PR, then we'd expect the average PR criminal to be less white than the average PR. PR has a homicide rate of 26/100,000, so that's a lot worse than ethnic makeup would predict.

    Those PR criminals do seem to have substantial white ancestry, which may imply the two points I'm trying to make:

    1. White PRs are doing quite badly too.
    2. PR is a predominately white country, with a substantial NAM component.

    Johnny Walker you still believe Puerto Rico is a dysfunctional high crime society because it’s supposed “Whiteness”
     
    \

    No, but I believe that PR whites are extreme under performers.

    If that were true, why doesn’t Spain have these same social problems?
     
    Good question. I'd like an answer to that too.

    84% white Uruguay has similar under performance issues.

    Puerto Rico underperforms its genetics on a lot of metrics. I don’t know why, but it would be worth figuring out since immigration is making America more like Puerto Rico.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Puerto Rico underperforms its genetics on a lot of metrics. I don’t know why, but it would be worth figuring out since immigration is making America more like Puerto Rico.
     
    Culture, Climate, and Genes (my version of Diamond's Guns, Germs, Steel triad):


    In terms of culture, well, Puerto Rico is Hispanic.And even European Hispanic culture has accomplished surprisingly little.Even Spain’s Golden Age was not all that golden when you compare it to what was going on in the rest of Western Europe.Spain from 1500-1650 was just keeping up (barely) with England, France, Italy, etc.Afterwards, it fell far behind ( cf Murray,Human Accomplishment, 338):

    Between 1650 and 1850-during the same two centuries when Britain, France, and Germany were producing hundreds of significant figures and even Italy in its decline produced several dozen-Spain produced a single major figure (Goya) and 11 significant figures.
     
    (Murray, Human Accomplishment , 338

    Physical environment: Tropical weather doesn’t seem to be very conducive to mental and physical exertion (Ellsworth Huntington has great data on the relationship between climate and human productivity in Mainsprings of Civilization:https://archive.org/stream/MainspringsOfCivilization#page/n3/mode/2up

    Genes: And, of course, a strong infusion of Black ancestry doesn’t help matters
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  181. Brutusale says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Cuba has a homicide rate 0f just 5 per 100,000 and a life expectancy of 79.1 years (higher than the US), despite having a population with substantial African ancestry. So that's a good sign.

    Per the latest CIA Factbook, Cuba ranks 59th with a 78.22 year average life expectancy. The US is 42nd at 79.56 years.

    What the Hell is in the water in Monaco? Average life expectancy is 89.57 years!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    You can't afford to move to Monaco until you are done inheriting from your parents.
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  182. @JohnnyWalker123
    Per capita GDP -

    Argentina: 14,715.18 USD
    Mexico: 10,307.28 USD
    Chile: 15,732.31 USD
    Uruguay: 16,350.73 USD
    Brazil: 11,208.08 USD

    Uruguay is (by ancestry) 84% Euro, 10% Amerind, and 6% black. It also has a homicide rate of 8/100,000.

    Latin countries seem to under perform what their ancestry would indicate. PR just happens to be a more extreme example.

    “Latin countries seem to under perform what their ancestry would indicate. PR just happens to be a more extreme example.”

    But it’s the American example of a Latin country, and that’s ominous. Perhaps the combination of American laws and Latin population is the worst underachiever of all?

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    I think receiving a huge amount of welfare and subsidies from the US probably kills a lot of the initiative of the PR people. Why work when you can play and still get paid?

    PR has a 43% labor force participation rate, against a 63% participation rate from the US. African-Americans have a participation rate of 60%.
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  183. @Brutusale
    Per the latest CIA Factbook, Cuba ranks 59th with a 78.22 year average life expectancy. The US is 42nd at 79.56 years.

    What the Hell is in the water in Monaco? Average life expectancy is 89.57 years!

    You can’t afford to move to Monaco until you are done inheriting from your parents.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rob McX
    Judging by that life expectancy figure, it must be populated entirely by people who outlived all of their relatives and then moved to Monaco with the money they inherited from them.
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  184. Rob McX says:
    @Steve Sailer
    You can't afford to move to Monaco until you are done inheriting from your parents.

    Judging by that life expectancy figure, it must be populated entirely by people who outlived all of their relatives and then moved to Monaco with the money they inherited from them.

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  185. syonredux says:
    @ben tillman

    This is not true, the average PR is considered to be about 90% white, 8% black and 2% Indian.
     
    That is the funniest thing you've ever posted. I have no idea what people on the island look like, but those I've encountered in the 50 states seem to average about 60% Black, 15% Indian, 15% Jewish, and 10% White.

    That is the funniest thing you’ve ever posted. I have no idea what people on the island look like, but those I’ve encountered in the 50 states seem to average about 60% Black, 15% Indian, 15% Jewish, and 10% White.

    If you are going to parse-out the White fraction, then you should really do it for everyone:

    “seem to average about 60% Black, 15% Indian, 15% Jewish, and 10% Iberian.”

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  186. Jefferson says:

    This Puerto Rican girl named Angie Casillas took a DNA test and found out she is 23 percent Sub Saharan African.

    Youtube also has videos of other Puerto Ricans who took DNA tests and so far not a single one of them tested Negro free ancestry, in other words none tested 0 percent Sub Saharan African. The film True Romance should have picked on Puerto Ricans instead of Sicilians. Sicilians have nowhere near as much Negro ancestry as Puerto Ricans.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I don't really get the Thing that these days is people filming themselves opening stuff they get in the mail. For example, there are a bunch of firms that you can subscribe to to have them send you a box of presents every month, and a lot of people post videos of themselves opening their box of paid-for presents.
    , @syonredux
    This is something that Americans tend not to understand.In places like Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, Brazil, etc, there are large numbers of White-looking people who are as much as 20-25% Black.
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  187. @Jefferson
    This Puerto Rican girl named Angie Casillas took a DNA test and found out she is 23 percent Sub Saharan African.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTERqO9aIhI

    Youtube also has videos of other Puerto Ricans who took DNA tests and so far not a single one of them tested Negro free ancestry, in other words none tested 0 percent Sub Saharan African. The film True Romance should have picked on Puerto Ricans instead of Sicilians. Sicilians have nowhere near as much Negro ancestry as Puerto Ricans.

    I don’t really get the Thing that these days is people filming themselves opening stuff they get in the mail. For example, there are a bunch of firms that you can subscribe to to have them send you a box of presents every month, and a lot of people post videos of themselves opening their box of paid-for presents.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kauai
    Those opening the present videos are in the same vein as selfies, which many consider to be infantilized vanity. Maybe I can supplement my income by filming the lucky consumers. Write your Congressman to ban selfie sticks as that will further the cause and make public outings safer, too.
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  188. @JohnnyWalker123

    No doubt those figures are based on self-identification.
     
    No, those figures are based on testing. See the link from Truth.

    http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2014/07/25/genographic-project-dna-results-reveal-details-of-puerto-rican-history/

    Second, the Africans who find their way onto U.S. shores are definitely NOT representative of the medians of their respective countries. You can’t compare apples to oranges.

     

    Regression to the mean should've kicked in by the second/third generation, especially with the British Jamaicans.

    We do get lots of poor and uneducated African refugees from primitive places. From what I've seen, even their kids often do well. I couldn't quantify it though.

    Lastly, the Jamaican education system was put in place and the structural foundations laid by the British.

     

    The British left Jamaica a long time ago.

    Yet the Jamaican immigrant children are doing pretty well in NYC and London.

    Yet the Jamaican immigrant children are doing pretty well in NYC and London.

    London riots of 2011 started when Jamaican gang member was shot by police.

    2011 England riots
    a protest in Tottenham, north London, following the death of Mark Duggan, a local who was shot dead by police

    Along with the five deaths, at least 16 others were injured as a direct result of related violent acts. An estimated £200 million worth of property damage was incurred

    Posing with a killer and a gangster, ‘family man’ Mark Duggan whose death led to 2011 summer riots
    Duggan pictured with Junior Cameron who is serving a life sentence for murder and Darrell Albert who is serving life for attempted murder
    All three were members of the notorious Tottenham Man Dem gang
    Duggan was known by his gangster name of Starrish Mark and was considered by police to be a ‘major player’ in the gang

    Cameron, Albert and Duggan were all members of the notorious Tottenham Man Dem gang, which has links to Jamaica’s ruthless Yardies.

    (Mark-Duggan) Violence, drugs, a fatal stabbing and a most unlikely martyr
    Mark Duggan was part of a gang with links to Jamaica’s ruthless ‘Yardies’

    Duggan himself, according to some residents, was a crack cocaine dealer who routinely carried a gun.

    The Star Gang is an offshoot of Tottenham’s ‘Man dem’ gang which has links with Jamaica’s ruthless Yardie gangsters.

    Back in the late Nineties, ‘Man dem’, whose ‘territory’ included Broadwater Farm (where Duggan grew up, remember), controlled dozens of ‘crack houses’ and its psychopathic members or ‘soldiers’, as they styled themselves, were believed to be behind countless shootings, robberies, kidnappings and gangland killings.

    One photo circulating the internet shows Duggan making a ‘gangsta’ gun pose with his fingers. In others, he is wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with the words ‘Star Gang’.

    2011 England Riots: Statistics of Ethnicity
    Black Africans and Afro-Carribeans. No riots occurred in areas that were far away from large concentrations of black population.

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  189. @JohnnyWalker123

    No doubt those figures are based on self-identification.
     
    No, those figures are based on testing. See the link from Truth.

    http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2014/07/25/genographic-project-dna-results-reveal-details-of-puerto-rican-history/

    Second, the Africans who find their way onto U.S. shores are definitely NOT representative of the medians of their respective countries. You can’t compare apples to oranges.

     

    Regression to the mean should've kicked in by the second/third generation, especially with the British Jamaicans.

    We do get lots of poor and uneducated African refugees from primitive places. From what I've seen, even their kids often do well. I couldn't quantify it though.

    Lastly, the Jamaican education system was put in place and the structural foundations laid by the British.

     

    The British left Jamaica a long time ago.

    Yet the Jamaican immigrant children are doing pretty well in NYC and London.

    Yet the Jamaican immigrant children are doing pretty well in NYC and London.

    Jamaican riots in 1981 England:

    1981 Toxteth riots (UK)
    the rioting lasted nine days during which 468 police officers were injured … 70 buildings were damaged so severely by fire that they had to be demolished. Around 100 cars were destroyed, and there was extensive looting of shops.

    1981 Brixton riot (UK)
    280* injuries to police and 45* injuries to members of the public; over a hundred vehicles were burned, including 56 police vehicles; and almost 150 buildings were damaged, with thirty burned.

    Scarman Report 1981

    At the time when Brixton underwent deep social and economic problems — high unemployment, high crime, poor housing, no amenities — in a predominantly African-Caribbean community. The Metropolitan Police began Operation Swamp 81 at the beginning of April, aimed at reducing street crime

    The Scarman report highlighted problems of racial disadvantage and inner city decline, warning that “urgent action” was needed to prevent racial disadvantage becoming an “endemic, ineradicable disease threatening the very survival of our society”.

    Scarman found unquestionable evidence of the disproportionate and indiscriminate use of ‘stop and search’ powers by the police against black people.

    Scarman recommended changes in training and law enforcement, and the recruitment of more ethnic minorities into the police force. According to the report “institutional racism” did not exist, but positive discrimination to tackle racial disadvantage was “a price worth paying”.

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  190. @JohnnyWalker123
    According to the study done on PR, the racial composition is about 2/3 white by ancestry. They may not look white, but maybe that's because lots of them are tanned from the sunny weather. Also, lots of Spanish people look ethnic.

    The point is that a country with 2/3 white ancestry shouldn't be under performing American blacks, if we use a purely HBD-based model. There must be a cultural component to their failure and perhaps a cultural component to the success of African and Jamaican immigrants.

    Of course, if performance can vary that much based on culture, it'd be interesting to deduce how much African and Latino under performance is based on culture. Is the 1.1
    standard deviation white-black gap a constant?

    I'd like answers to these questions.

    Ron Unz has argued extensively that Mexican under performance has more to do with culture than genetics.

    The point is that a country with 2/3 white ancestry shouldn’t be under performing American blacks, if we use a purely HBD-based model.

    It’s a clash of the one-drop rules. A Latin American who signifigantly black can be cansidered white. In America he is black.

    the average African American is 80 percent sub-Saharan African, 19 percent European

    So it’s a 66% white PR vs. a 19% white American “black”.

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    The mean predicted IQ would be 93 for PRs and 84 for AAs.
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  191. Truth says:
    @attilathehen
    I've heard that claim about Geraldo also and some black grandfather. The Amerindian in Puerto Ricans is tiny and of little importance. The black African aspect is what dominates their culture and race. I've known several PRs over my life and from physical appearance alone they fall into a 90% black looking or 10% white (Ricky Martin types). In several history books I've read about Latin American countries, the 90% black ancestry was used for PRs. Another fact is how many PR-Jewish hybrids there are in New York City. The PR ascendancy is bizarre considering how many of the PRs (Jennifer Lopez, Jimmy Smits, Rita Moreno are black). But Jennifer Lopez has a sister married to a Jew, Rita Moreno's husband is Jewish. Freddie Prinze and Freddie Prinze Jr. (married to Sarah Michelle Gellar - Jewish) are PR and Jewish. Geraldo Rivera's mother is Jewish. I have noticed this pattern - Jewish- PR- black Americans and now Asians for 20 years now. Geraldo Rivera's mother has given him a slight iq advantage, but he is nothing special. Also, he now considers himself Jewish.

    I’ve known several PRs over my life and from physical appearance alone they fall into a 90% black looking or 10% white (Ricky Martin types).

    Ricky Martin looks 90% black to you?

    http://feelgrafix.com/949635-ricky-martin.html

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    • Replies: @attilathehen
    No, Ricky Martin is white. What I meant is that of say PRs I've met, 9 look black (even if they are fairer skinned) and only one is white like Ricky Martin.
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  192. @Jefferson
    "In places like New York City,black Jamaican kids are outperforming their white PR classmates"

    Hahahahaha, you have to be smoking that 420 if you believe most K-12 Puerto Ricans in New York City's public schools are White.

    Here is what the typical phenotypes are of Puerto Rican kids in New York City's urban inner city K-12 public schools. They don't exactly racially look like the kids on Little House On The Prairie and Eight Is Enough.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgyN4p7K0LE

    The very poor academic performance of Puerto Rican kids in New York City's K-12 public schools is not because most of them are White trash, it is because most of them are People Of Color.

    These children are mostly Dominican, not Puerto Rican. Any school in the Bronx is likely to be largely Dominican.

    In my experience, the comparison between Dominicans and Puerto Ricans in the US is roughly analagous to your comparison of the Uruguayan and Argentinian soccer teams. I have met white-looking Puerto Ricans, but I’ve met more white-looking Dominicans. But I’ve also met many black Dominicans, while Puerto Ricans are rarely completely black-looking. Both groups most often display a mulatto phenotype, but the Puerto Ricans tend to be lighter.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "while Puerto Ricans are rarely completely black-looking."

    18 percent of San Juan's population is Black. It is nowhere near being rare. Percentage wise Puerto Rico has more Blacks than South Africa has Whites.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Juan,_Puerto_Rico#Demographics

    San Juan has a higher percentage of Blacks than cities like London and Los Angeles.

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  193. syonredux says:
    @Jefferson
    This Puerto Rican girl named Angie Casillas took a DNA test and found out she is 23 percent Sub Saharan African.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTERqO9aIhI

    Youtube also has videos of other Puerto Ricans who took DNA tests and so far not a single one of them tested Negro free ancestry, in other words none tested 0 percent Sub Saharan African. The film True Romance should have picked on Puerto Ricans instead of Sicilians. Sicilians have nowhere near as much Negro ancestry as Puerto Ricans.

    This is something that Americans tend not to understand.In places like Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, Brazil, etc, there are large numbers of White-looking people who are as much as 20-25% Black.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    In the US, because of the "one drop" rule, anyone who had any visible black ancestry was ruled on the other side of the color line and could only marry fellow "blacks" - there are lots of black families where one or more members are almost white looking (or even convincing white looking - even if crossing the color line was physically possible and conferred a lot of possible advantages, you still had to cut yourself off from your family, friends and culture to do it - that was too much to ask for a lot of people). This is why most whites in America are 100% European or close to it. There were blacks who crossed the color line and their genes entered the white community, but damn few, especially compared to blacks with some white ancestry (almost all).

    In Latin America, the color line was not sharply defined so a woman who was a little bit brownish had no problem marrying a European (Spanish) male and so everybody is all mixed up on a more or less continuous spectrum.
    , @Jack D
    It depends on your definition of "white looking". Usually if you put such a person next to a pure European they are clearly a shade or two more tan and their features are a little different, etc. They are "European-ish" rather than fully European. Only when black ancestry goes below the 1/8th level does it tend to completely disappear to the point that there are no visible clues at all.
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  194. syonredux says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Puerto Rico underperforms its genetics on a lot of metrics. I don't know why, but it would be worth figuring out since immigration is making America more like Puerto Rico.

    Puerto Rico underperforms its genetics on a lot of metrics. I don’t know why, but it would be worth figuring out since immigration is making America more like Puerto Rico.

    Culture, Climate, and Genes (my version of Diamond’s Guns, Germs, Steel triad):

    In terms of culture, well, Puerto Rico is Hispanic.And even European Hispanic culture has accomplished surprisingly little.Even Spain’s Golden Age was not all that golden when you compare it to what was going on in the rest of Western Europe.Spain from 1500-1650 was just keeping up (barely) with England, France, Italy, etc.Afterwards, it fell far behind ( cf Murray,Human Accomplishment, 338):

    Between 1650 and 1850-during the same two centuries when Britain, France, and Germany were producing hundreds of significant figures and even Italy in its decline produced several dozen-Spain produced a single major figure (Goya) and 11 significant figures.

    (Murray, Human Accomplishment , 338

    Physical environment: Tropical weather doesn’t seem to be very conducive to mental and physical exertion (Ellsworth Huntington has great data on the relationship between climate and human productivity in Mainsprings of Civilization:https://archive.org/stream/MainspringsOfCivilization#page/n3/mode/2up

    Genes: And, of course, a strong infusion of Black ancestry doesn’t help matters

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  195. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    This is something that Americans tend not to understand.In places like Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, Brazil, etc, there are large numbers of White-looking people who are as much as 20-25% Black.

    I’ve seen mixed-race people here in the states who could pass for white if they wished. I’ve seen people who had a black parent and yet had blond hair and blue eyes. The mixing process leads to results that are all over the place. Appearances are deceiving.

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  196. Jack D says:
    @syonredux
    This is something that Americans tend not to understand.In places like Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, Brazil, etc, there are large numbers of White-looking people who are as much as 20-25% Black.

    In the US, because of the “one drop” rule, anyone who had any visible black ancestry was ruled on the other side of the color line and could only marry fellow “blacks” – there are lots of black families where one or more members are almost white looking (or even convincing white looking – even if crossing the color line was physically possible and conferred a lot of possible advantages, you still had to cut yourself off from your family, friends and culture to do it – that was too much to ask for a lot of people). This is why most whites in America are 100% European or close to it. There were blacks who crossed the color line and their genes entered the white community, but damn few, especially compared to blacks with some white ancestry (almost all).

    In Latin America, the color line was not sharply defined so a woman who was a little bit brownish had no problem marrying a European (Spanish) male and so everybody is all mixed up on a more or less continuous spectrum.

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  197. Jack D says:
    @syonredux
    This is something that Americans tend not to understand.In places like Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, Brazil, etc, there are large numbers of White-looking people who are as much as 20-25% Black.

    It depends on your definition of “white looking”. Usually if you put such a person next to a pure European they are clearly a shade or two more tan and their features are a little different, etc. They are “European-ish” rather than fully European. Only when black ancestry goes below the 1/8th level does it tend to completely disappear to the point that there are no visible clues at all.

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  198. Jefferson says:
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Hey Johnny Walker, here are the phenotypes of the most wanted criminals in Puerto Rico.

     

    They look like a tri-racial blend of white, black, and indigenous ancestry.

    If we assume a white-NAM criminality gap in PR, then we'd expect the average PR criminal to be less white than the average PR. PR has a homicide rate of 26/100,000, so that's a lot worse than ethnic makeup would predict.

    Those PR criminals do seem to have substantial white ancestry, which may imply the two points I'm trying to make:

    1. White PRs are doing quite badly too.
    2. PR is a predominately white country, with a substantial NAM component.

    Johnny Walker you still believe Puerto Rico is a dysfunctional high crime society because it’s supposed “Whiteness”
     
    \

    No, but I believe that PR whites are extreme under performers.

    If that were true, why doesn’t Spain have these same social problems?
     
    Good question. I'd like an answer to that too.

    84% white Uruguay has similar under performance issues.

    “2. PR is a predominately white country”

    This is how you know Puerto Ricans are not a White ethnic group, former NAACP chairman Benjamin Jealous is genetically more Caucasoid than the average Puerto Rican. Benjamin Jealous is genetically 80 percent Caucasoid while the average Puerto Rican is only 60%-65% Caucasoid.

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    I used the term "predominately" to mean mostly.

    The point is that PRs should be doing better if the average person is 2/3 white.
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  199. Jefferson says:
    @Al Alburquerque
    These children are mostly Dominican, not Puerto Rican. Any school in the Bronx is likely to be largely Dominican.

    In my experience, the comparison between Dominicans and Puerto Ricans in the US is roughly analagous to your comparison of the Uruguayan and Argentinian soccer teams. I have met white-looking Puerto Ricans, but I've met more white-looking Dominicans. But I've also met many black Dominicans, while Puerto Ricans are rarely completely black-looking. Both groups most often display a mulatto phenotype, but the Puerto Ricans tend to be lighter.

    “while Puerto Ricans are rarely completely black-looking.”

    18 percent of San Juan’s population is Black. It is nowhere near being rare. Percentage wise Puerto Rico has more Blacks than South Africa has Whites.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Juan,_Puerto_Rico#Demographics

    San Juan has a higher percentage of Blacks than cities like London and Los Angeles.

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    • Replies: @Al Alburquerque
    That sounds believable to me. I haven't been to San Juan. What percentage of Santo Domingo is black? In any case, as I said, I was just writing from my own experience. I don't typically meet Puerto Ricans whom you might describe as "black" from their appearance, while I very often encounter Dominicans like that. (But I also encounter "white" Dominicans more commonly than "white" Puerto Ricans.)

    Anyway, those kids in the video are surely Dominican.

    Happy 4th.
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  200. @Beliavsky
    The 2813 Puerto Ricans who took the SAT in Puerto Rico in 2013 http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/2013/PR_13_03_03_01.pdf scored 452, 446, and 445 on average on the verbal, math, and writing sections. The 27,871 Puerto Ricans who took it anywhere (mostly residing in continental U.S.) http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/2013/TotalGroup-2013.pdf scored 456, 453, and 445 on average. The standard deviation of SAT section scores is about 100, so these are small differences. The average scores of whites were 527, 534, and 515. There is little evidence from SAT scores that the Puerto Rican educational system does a worse job of educating Puerto Ricans than the American one does.

    The 2813 Puerto Ricans who took the SAT in Puerto Rico in 2013 http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/2013/PR_13_03_03_01.pdf scored 452, 446, and 445 on average on the verbal, math, and writing sections. The 27,871 Puerto Ricans who took it anywhere (mostly residing in continental U.S.) http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/2013/TotalGroup-2013.pdf scored 456, 453, and 445 on average. The standard deviation of SAT section scores is about 100, so these are small differences. The average scores of whites were 527, 534, and 515. There is little evidence from SAT scores that the Puerto Rican educational system does a worse job of educating Puerto Ricans than the American one does.

    Incorrect. According to data from 2000, 30,000 graduated high school in Puerto Rico. 2813 island SAT test takers is less than 10% of graduates. At least 20% of islanders attend private school. Island private schools have a 99% graduation rate while island public schools graduate 42% and only 1% of island public school graduates get accepted into college compared to 100% of private school grads.

    In other words, a public stateside school produces the same quality of graduate as a private island school. Most island Puerto Ricans are not fluent in English, therefore only the elite, private schooled, can be expected to score in the 400s on the SAT. Public island students simply aren’t taking the SAT. Why would they? They can’t speak English and they don’t go to college.

    http://sitemaker.umich.edu/bur.356/puerto_rico_s_statistics__private___public_schools

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  201. attilathehen [AKA "Matilda"] says:
    @Truth

    I’ve known several PRs over my life and from physical appearance alone they fall into a 90% black looking or 10% white (Ricky Martin types).
     
    Ricky Martin looks 90% black to you?

    http://feelgrafix.com/949635-ricky-martin.html

    No, Ricky Martin is white. What I meant is that of say PRs I’ve met, 9 look black (even if they are fairer skinned) and only one is white like Ricky Martin.

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  202. @todd

    "The average Puerto Rican is not even White by New York City standards which is full of Italians and Jews, let alone White by Minnesota standards which is full of "
     
    Puerto Ricans have been in the U.S for over a hundred years, and the vast majority were always considered white. During segregation, before there was a concept of hispanic/latino, they were white, and had the legal rights and privileges of whites.

    Rita Moreno was white, Sonia Sotomayor , "the wise Latina", was born white, etc...

    Puerto Ricans have been in the U.S for over a hundred years, and the vast majority were always considered white. During segregation, before there was a concept of hispanic/latino, they were white, and had the legal rights and privileges of whites.

    There was never legally enforced segregation where Puerto Ricans lived.

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  203. @Jefferson
    "Also, it’s interesting that TNC doesn’t see an issue with violence in the black community."

    TNC becomes more outraged by the rare White on Black homicide than he does about the daily Black on Black homicide that goes on 24 hours a days, 7 days week, 365 days a week. How many Blacks in this country have been murdered by other Blacks since the Charleston shooting? I guarantee it is a hell of a lot more than 9 that's for damn sure.

    Whites are the opposite of Blacks, we become more angry at instances of White on White homicide than we do with instances of Black on White homicide. How many Whites in this country would have given a damn about Natalee Holloway's death and disappearance if Joran Van Der Sloot had been Black?

    White people only care about White on White homicides and Black people only care about White on Black homicides. Both only care about criminal cases where the perpetrator is White.

    TNC becomes more outraged by the rare White on Black homicide than he does about the daily Black on Black homicide that goes on 24 hours a days, 7 days week, 365 days a week.

    If you’re Black, you have to live with the problems that Blacks cause one another. However, you don’t have to live with the problems that Whites cause Blacks. (You could separate.)

    That’s a choice. And Coates chooses to accept those problems as a condition to getting access to the White man’s wealth.

    No, wait.

    I guess your point is that he refuses to accept the cost and expects to reap the benefit. So you are right after all.

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  204. @Jefferson
    "2. PR is a predominately white country"

    This is how you know Puerto Ricans are not a White ethnic group, former NAACP chairman Benjamin Jealous is genetically more Caucasoid than the average Puerto Rican. Benjamin Jealous is genetically 80 percent Caucasoid while the average Puerto Rican is only 60%-65% Caucasoid.

    I used the term “predominately” to mean mostly.

    The point is that PRs should be doing better if the average person is 2/3 white.

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  205. @Hippopotamusdrome

    The point is that a country with 2/3 white ancestry shouldn’t be under performing American blacks, if we use a purely HBD-based model.
     
    It's a clash of the one-drop rules. A Latin American who signifigantly black can be cansidered white. In America he is black.


    the average African American is 80 percent sub-Saharan African, 19 percent European

     

    So it's a 66% white PR vs. a 19% white American "black".

    The mean predicted IQ would be 93 for PRs and 84 for AAs.

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    • Replies: @syonredux
    The mean predicted IQ would be 93 for PRs and 84 for AAs.

    IQ in Puerto Rico

    Table I features 26 studies for Puerto Rico. The single best study for estimating intelligence in Puerto Rico is the large 1977 standardization of the Raven Progressive Matrices—a nonverbal test of reasoning ability that is well designed for cross-cultural comparisons. IQ on this test was 82.8. Three more well-known IQ tests were normed on large samples, but this involved adapting the test items to another language and culture, which requires additional assumptions about cross-cultural comparability. IQ on all four tests was 82.7. All together, 19 studies provide scores that might appropriately be compared with U.S. norms: from these samples I estimated an IQ of 84.6 for Puerto Rico (Section Ic).
     

    IQ of Puerto Rican Americans:

    Table II features 45 studies for Puerto Ricans living in the parts of the United States that aren’t Puerto Rico (Yes, it has been awkward trying to communicate this technicality throughout the post). Four normal samples from Hawaii in the 20s and 30s had an average IQ of 74.2. An additional 30 studies provide adequate scores for the rest of the mainland United States. My estimate for Puerto Rican Americans from these samples was 84.7, but other methods suggest that this is too low:

    The 14 studies administered since 1980 exhibit a higher average: 87.4 (Section IIe).
    The 13 studies that compare white and mainlander samples directly suggest a relative IQ of 89.4 (Section IIf).
    SAT Reasoning Test data was compiled for the 37 years 1976-2013. Some 500,000 Puerto Ricans had a standard score of 88.2 (Section IIIb).
    Scores from the 30 IQ studies can be sub-divided by age and analyzed by birth cohort, creating 50 different samples with a time-invariant average of 86.9 (Section IVe).
    Taking an average of these five methods gives us a final IQ estimate of 87.3 for Puerto Rican Americans. This is close to Lloyd Dunn’s joint estimate of 88-90 for Puerto Ricans and Mexicans (Dunn, 1988).
     

    On the other hand, Puerto Rican islanders score over 1/3 of a standard deviation lower than would be predicted by their nonwhite ancestry. If we assume that moving to the mainland and fully assimilating the culture and the language could raise their IQ to, say, 92, then that would be exactly half of the gap between whites and Puerto Ricans explained by environmental differences.
     
    http://humanvarieties.org/2014/03/13/hvgiq-puerto-rico-2/
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  206. @Anonymous
    In London, England, 'Jamaican' kids of the third to fourth generation, even, are best known for their proclivity for going around and stabbing people to death rather than their academic prowess.

    Afro-Caribbean kids score about 0.4 standard deviations below the White British mean, which is pretty good. Also, 12% black London has a homicide rate of 1.6/100,000, which is much lower than 8% black Seattle or 6% black Portland.

    Afro-Caribbeans are outperforming their native mean substantially.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Afro-Caribbean kids score about 0.4 standard deviations below the White British mean, which is pretty good.
     
    What's their racial makeup like? European vs Black ancestry percentages?Also, we need to account for the filtering effect of immigrating from the Caribbean to Britain, etc

    Also, 12% black London has a homicide rate of 1.6/100,000, which is much lower than 8% black Seattle or 6% black Portland.
     
    But they are still responsible for a disproportionate amount of crime in London:

    Figures from the Office for National Statistics showed that in 2007 an estimated 10.6 percent of London's population of 7,556,900 were black.[.....]

    In June 2010 The Sunday Telegraph, through a Freedom of Information Act request, obtained statistics on accusations of crime broken down by race from the Metropolitan Police Service.[n 2] The figures showed that the majority of males who were accused of violent crimes in 2009–10 were black. Of the recorded 18,091 such accusations against males, 54 percent accused of street crimes were black; for robbery, 59 percent; and for gun crimes, 67 percent.[25] Robbery, drug use, and gang violence have been associated with black people since the 1960s.[26] In the 1980s and 1990s, the police associated robbery with black people. In 1995, the Metropolitan Police commissioner Paul Condon said that the majority of robberies in London were committed by black people.[27]

    Street crimes include muggings, assault with intent to rob, and snatching property. Black males accounted for 29 percent of the male victims of gun crime and 24 percent of the male victims of knife crime.[25] Similar statistics were recorded for females. On knife crime, 45 percent of suspected female perpetrators were black; for gun crime, 58 percent; and for robberies, 52 percent.[28]

    Operation Trident was set up in March 1998 by the Metropolitan Police to investigate gun crime in London's black community after black-on-black shootings in Lambeth and Brent.[29]

    Between April 2005 and January 2006, figures from the Metropolitan Police Service showed that black people accounted for 46 percent of car-crime arrests generated by automatic number plate recognition cameras.[30]

    In London in 2006, 75% of the victims of gun crime and 79% of the suspects were "from the African/Caribbean community."[31]

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_Kingdom#Race_and_crime_in_London

    Afro-Caribbeans are outperforming their native mean substantially.
     
    But how representative are they of their native populations?
    , @syonredux

    Also, 12% black London has a homicide rate of 1.6/100,000, which is much lower than 8% black Seattle or 6% black Portland.
     
    Yeah, and the UK has much more stringent gun control and massive use of CCTV surveillance.And the Black population overall is much lower:

    The 2011 UK Census recorded 1,904,684 residents who identified as "Black/African/Caribbean/Black British", accounting for 3 per cent of the total UK population.
     
    In contrast, the USA (according to the 2010 census) is 12.6% Black.Blacks in the USA have reached critical mass.
    , @Anonymous
    There you go again with your deliberate half-truths and blatant misrepresentations.
    Look at the black per capita incarceration rate in London alone. Don't lump them in with the general London population.
    If you do so, you will find it shockingly high, in fact just like black populations everywhere.
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  207. @Steve Sailer
    "Latin countries seem to under perform what their ancestry would indicate. PR just happens to be a more extreme example."

    But it's the American example of a Latin country, and that's ominous. Perhaps the combination of American laws and Latin population is the worst underachiever of all?

    I think receiving a huge amount of welfare and subsidies from the US probably kills a lot of the initiative of the PR people. Why work when you can play and still get paid?

    PR has a 43% labor force participation rate, against a 63% participation rate from the US. African-Americans have a participation rate of 60%.

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  208. @Jack D
    Where did these PR's get their Jewish blood and how could you tell? Did you test their DNA? Did they confide to you that they craved the blood of Christian children with which to make their mofongo?

    Where did these PR’s get their Jewish blood and how could you tell? Did you test their DNA? Did they confide to you that they craved the blood of Christian children with which to make their mofongo?

    Where did they get their Jewish blood? From Jewish ancestors!

    Jews have been in Puerto Rico since the 1490′s.

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  209. @Anonymous
    Yup.
    And it's also got 'typical' wages of around 4 dollars per week.

    Communism.

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  210. syonredux says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    The mean predicted IQ would be 93 for PRs and 84 for AAs.

    The mean predicted IQ would be 93 for PRs and 84 for AAs.

    IQ in Puerto Rico

    Table I features 26 studies for Puerto Rico. The single best study for estimating intelligence in Puerto Rico is the large 1977 standardization of the Raven Progressive Matrices—a nonverbal test of reasoning ability that is well designed for cross-cultural comparisons. IQ on this test was 82.8. Three more well-known IQ tests were normed on large samples, but this involved adapting the test items to another language and culture, which requires additional assumptions about cross-cultural comparability. IQ on all four tests was 82.7. All together, 19 studies provide scores that might appropriately be compared with U.S. norms: from these samples I estimated an IQ of 84.6 for Puerto Rico (Section Ic).

    IQ of Puerto Rican Americans:

    Table II features 45 studies for Puerto Ricans living in the parts of the United States that aren’t Puerto Rico (Yes, it has been awkward trying to communicate this technicality throughout the post). Four normal samples from Hawaii in the 20s and 30s had an average IQ of 74.2. An additional 30 studies provide adequate scores for the rest of the mainland United States. My estimate for Puerto Rican Americans from these samples was 84.7, but other methods suggest that this is too low:

    The 14 studies administered since 1980 exhibit a higher average: 87.4 (Section IIe).
    The 13 studies that compare white and mainlander samples directly suggest a relative IQ of 89.4 (Section IIf).
    SAT Reasoning Test data was compiled for the 37 years 1976-2013. Some 500,000 Puerto Ricans had a standard score of 88.2 (Section IIIb).
    Scores from the 30 IQ studies can be sub-divided by age and analyzed by birth cohort, creating 50 different samples with a time-invariant average of 86.9 (Section IVe).
    Taking an average of these five methods gives us a final IQ estimate of 87.3 for Puerto Rican Americans. This is close to Lloyd Dunn’s joint estimate of 88-90 for Puerto Ricans and Mexicans (Dunn, 1988).

    On the other hand, Puerto Rican islanders score over 1/3 of a standard deviation lower than would be predicted by their nonwhite ancestry. If we assume that moving to the mainland and fully assimilating the culture and the language could raise their IQ to, say, 92, then that would be exactly half of the gap between whites and Puerto Ricans explained by environmental differences.

    http://humanvarieties.org/2014/03/13/hvgiq-puerto-rico-2/

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Puerto Rican children do very poorly on IQ tests, but the adults perform better. One study, interpreted by Jason Malloy, found a mean IQ of 93 among PR-American HS students. I suppose bad home environment might be the issue.

    http://humanvarieties.org/2014/03/13/hvgiq-puerto-rico-2/

    I analyzed data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (Malloy, 2014b). This is a representative survey of high school students in 1995. The Puerto Rican teens had a PPVT IQ of 92.9.

     

    The point is that even if we assume a mean IQ of 87 for PRs, their island is performing far worse than even that. There's something very screwy about PR.
    There's also something very screwy about overwhelmingly white (84%) Uruguay. There is something about Latin America that's resulting in poor performance. It goes beyond ethnicity.
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  211. syonredux says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Afro-Caribbean kids score about 0.4 standard deviations below the White British mean, which is pretty good. Also, 12% black London has a homicide rate of 1.6/100,000, which is much lower than 8% black Seattle or 6% black Portland.

    Afro-Caribbeans are outperforming their native mean substantially.

    Afro-Caribbean kids score about 0.4 standard deviations below the White British mean, which is pretty good.

    What’s their racial makeup like? European vs Black ancestry percentages?Also, we need to account for the filtering effect of immigrating from the Caribbean to Britain, etc

    Also, 12% black London has a homicide rate of 1.6/100,000, which is much lower than 8% black Seattle or 6% black Portland.

    But they are still responsible for a disproportionate amount of crime in London:

    Figures from the Office for National Statistics showed that in 2007 an estimated 10.6 percent of London’s population of 7,556,900 were black.[.....]

    In June 2010 The Sunday Telegraph, through a Freedom of Information Act request, obtained statistics on accusations of crime broken down by race from the Metropolitan Police Service.[n 2] The figures showed that the majority of males who were accused of violent crimes in 2009–10 were black. Of the recorded 18,091 such accusations against males, 54 percent accused of street crimes were black; for robbery, 59 percent; and for gun crimes, 67 percent.[25] Robbery, drug use, and gang violence have been associated with black people since the 1960s.[26] In the 1980s and 1990s, the police associated robbery with black people. In 1995, the Metropolitan Police commissioner Paul Condon said that the majority of robberies in London were committed by black people.[27]

    Street crimes include muggings, assault with intent to rob, and snatching property. Black males accounted for 29 percent of the male victims of gun crime and 24 percent of the male victims of knife crime.[25] Similar statistics were recorded for females. On knife crime, 45 percent of suspected female perpetrators were black; for gun crime, 58 percent; and for robberies, 52 percent.[28]

    Operation Trident was set up in March 1998 by the Metropolitan Police to investigate gun crime in London’s black community after black-on-black shootings in Lambeth and Brent.[29]

    Between April 2005 and January 2006, figures from the Metropolitan Police Service showed that black people accounted for 46 percent of car-crime arrests generated by automatic number plate recognition cameras.[30]

    In London in 2006, 75% of the victims of gun crime and 79% of the suspects were “from the African/Caribbean community.”[31]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_Kingdom#Race_and_crime_in_London

    Afro-Caribbeans are outperforming their native mean substantially.

    But how representative are they of their native populations?

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    What’s their racial makeup like? European vs Black ancestry percentages?Also, we need to account for the filtering effect of immigrating from the Caribbean to Britain, etc

     

    Purely black Afro-Caribbean kids scored 0.46 SDs below the White British mean.
    When I cited the 0.4 figure, I was looking at the gap between ACs and the overall British mean. The AC-British gap is 0.4 SDs, while the AC-WB gap is 0.46 SDs. Still large, but not huge.

    Mixed race AC kids score 0.19 SDs below the white mean. See the chart below.

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-iq-gap-is-no-longer-a-black-and-white-issue/

    But how representative are they of their native populations?

     

    I haven't found enough information to determine that. Blacks in Jamaica and the West Indies are the descendants of slaves. Many of them immigrated to the UK in the 1950s and 1960s, but I'm not sure if the migrants were completely representative of the general population back in Caribbean islands.
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  212. syonredux says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Afro-Caribbean kids score about 0.4 standard deviations below the White British mean, which is pretty good. Also, 12% black London has a homicide rate of 1.6/100,000, which is much lower than 8% black Seattle or 6% black Portland.

    Afro-Caribbeans are outperforming their native mean substantially.

    Also, 12% black London has a homicide rate of 1.6/100,000, which is much lower than 8% black Seattle or 6% black Portland.

    Yeah, and the UK has much more stringent gun control and massive use of CCTV surveillance.And the Black population overall is much lower:

    The 2011 UK Census recorded 1,904,684 residents who identified as “Black/African/Caribbean/Black British”, accounting for 3 per cent of the total UK population.

    In contrast, the USA (according to the 2010 census) is 12.6% Black.Blacks in the USA have reached critical mass.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    The U.S. has the same rate of surveillance as the UK. We have our own equivalent of CCTV.

    As I mentioned before, the black population (1.1 million) is much larger and more dense than the black population of Washington state and Oregon.

    Gun control might be a factor, but low incarceration + nonlethal police + gun control is the liberal formula for low crime.
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  213. Kauai says:
    @Steve Sailer
    I don't really get the Thing that these days is people filming themselves opening stuff they get in the mail. For example, there are a bunch of firms that you can subscribe to to have them send you a box of presents every month, and a lot of people post videos of themselves opening their box of paid-for presents.

    Those opening the present videos are in the same vein as selfies, which many consider to be infantilized vanity. Maybe I can supplement my income by filming the lucky consumers. Write your Congressman to ban selfie sticks as that will further the cause and make public outings safer, too.

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  214. @JohnnyWalker123

    No doubt those figures are based on self-identification.
     
    No, those figures are based on testing. See the link from Truth.

    http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2014/07/25/genographic-project-dna-results-reveal-details-of-puerto-rican-history/

    Second, the Africans who find their way onto U.S. shores are definitely NOT representative of the medians of their respective countries. You can’t compare apples to oranges.

     

    Regression to the mean should've kicked in by the second/third generation, especially with the British Jamaicans.

    We do get lots of poor and uneducated African refugees from primitive places. From what I've seen, even their kids often do well. I couldn't quantify it though.

    Lastly, the Jamaican education system was put in place and the structural foundations laid by the British.

     

    The British left Jamaica a long time ago.

    Yet the Jamaican immigrant children are doing pretty well in NYC and London.

    No, those figures are based on testing. See the link from Truth.

    http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2014/07/25/genographic-project-dna-results-reveal-details-of-puerto-rican-history/

    They are based on testing but not on testing of a cross-section of Puerto Ricans. They tested “326 individuals from southeastern Puerto Rico and Vieques”. So, no, the testing does nothing to dispel the reasonable inference that the 66%-white figure is not even close to reality.

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    In Vieques, 28% of residents identify as black. In PR as a whole, only 12%. So it'd seem possible that the sampled respondents might've been blacker than the typical PR.

    Here's a study (based on PRs in primary care clinics) that found ancestry that was 67% white, 18% black, 15% Native.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1950843/

    The 192 Puerto Ricans were recruited from six primary-care clinics in Puerto Rico as part of the Genetics of Asthma in Latino Americans study.14 All study participants were aged 8–40 years. Individuals of European (from the United States), West African (from Nigeria), and Native American (Pima and Mayan) descent were included, to approximate the ancestral populations. With use of the Affymetrix Human Mapping 100K GeneChip set,15 192 Puerto Ricans, 42 Europeans, 37 Africans, and 30 Native Americans were genotyped. Details of data-quality assessment and statistical analysis are provided in appendix A.

    Under the assumption of a trihybrid population model and of 112,584 SNPs, marker-specific ancestries were estimated, with the program SABER,11 for all autosomes for each individual. Averaged over 192 Puerto Ricans, the genomewide mean estimated European ancestry was .67, African ancestry was .18, and Native American ancestry was .15.18 For each individual, we then computed Δ ancestry by subtracting the genomewide ancestry from locus-specific ancestry for each of the three ancestry components. We then calculated average locus-specific Δ ancestry values for the 192 subjects.
     
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  215. @JohnnyWalker123

    No doubt those figures are based on self-identification.
     
    No, those figures are based on testing. See the link from Truth.

    http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2014/07/25/genographic-project-dna-results-reveal-details-of-puerto-rican-history/

    Second, the Africans who find their way onto U.S. shores are definitely NOT representative of the medians of their respective countries. You can’t compare apples to oranges.

     

    Regression to the mean should've kicked in by the second/third generation, especially with the British Jamaicans.

    We do get lots of poor and uneducated African refugees from primitive places. From what I've seen, even their kids often do well. I couldn't quantify it though.

    Lastly, the Jamaican education system was put in place and the structural foundations laid by the British.

     

    The British left Jamaica a long time ago.

    Yet the Jamaican immigrant children are doing pretty well in NYC and London.

    Regression to the mean should’ve kicked in by the second/third generation, especially with the British Jamaicans.

    Everybody talks about it, but nobody can explain how this regression to the mean actually happens. One commenter made a good effort once, and it was helpful, but the ultimate takeaway was that the “mean” that is regressed to isn’t necessarily the racial mean.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Al Alburquerque
    I don't know much about it, but I will take a stab. A person who is a statistical outlier in some particular (heritable) trait (or collection of traits) is an anomaly - a genetic accident, basically - so even though his own children are apt to be above average in terms of that trait, they are not apt to be as distant an outlier. Also, his children have to have one other person's genes of course, and that person is not likely to carry the same extreme genotype. (I think both are significant. A person with an IQ of 170 will likely mate with someone with a lower IQ and have children with lower IQs - but even if two 170 IQ people mate, I think there children are quite unlikely to have 170 IQs because it is such an extreme abnormality - though I could be wrong about that, and I invite someone who knows genetics to comment.)

    Patrick Ewing's parents were surely tall, but at 7'0" he was surely considerably taller. And his own children would be likely to be very tall, but unlikely to be as extremely tall. Patrick Ewing Jr., as predicted by this notion, has regressed slightly to the mean, at 6'8".

    However, toward what mean is Patrick Jr regressing? Human males? Black males? Ewing males? I would say they regress to the mean of the population that makes up any potential addition to the family's gene pool. Ewings will probably continue to regress toward average height, but not quickly since tall people tend to mate with other tall people - though that tendency is not that strong.

    Stronger, it seems, is the tendency for high IQ people to mate with other high IQ people. To me, there's no reason to think that the IQs of the descendants of the African or Indian intellectual elite who come to the US will regress to the average Gambian or Bengali peasant, as the mean toward which they regress is determined by the pool of potential future mates/additions to the gene pool. And high IQ people tend to mate with high IQ people. A genius' IQ will regress among his descendents, but not every family's IQ is fated to fall back to the human average - or their race's average. It's a little more likely that short people will continue to enter the Ewing gene pool and reduce the average Ewing height.

    The mean is not necessarily the racial mean, as a previous commenter said, because high IQ members of a race and lower-IQ members of the same race are not necessarily mixing so much, and less now than ever.
    , @Rob McX
    This explanation of regression to the mean from John Derbyshire (not easy to link straight to the original text, so I'll quote it here in full):

    "Regression to the mean." What is it? I get asked. How does it work? Where does it apply? And so on. OK, here goes.

    The first thing to be said is that a statistician will rap you across the knuckles with a ruler if you say "regression to the mean." While rapping, he will bark angrily: "It's 'regression towards the mean,' you innumerate dolt!"

    In defiance of that statistician, I shall show you an actual case of regression to the mean. Our statistician is right, and regression to the mean is an artificial situation, a hypothetical extreme. Sometimes, though, a phenomenon is more easily understood from its extremes, however unrealistic.

    First, the mise en scène. You are standing on a podium in the open air. Think of it as a general's reviewing platform. In front of you are your "troops," lined up in ranks and files. There are a million of them, precisely a million. They await your word of command. Oh, did I mention that each one is holding a fair coin? — a quarter, say. Here comes your word of command.

    "Listen up! I want each and every one of you to toss his coin a hundred times and count the heads. When you have finished, orderlies will come among you to collect your results. Each person will report his name to the orderly, along with a single number — the number of heads you got in your hundred tosses. This will, of course, be some whole number between zero and a hundred. Got it? Right — begin!"

    When they are through tossing and the lists — name, number of heads — have come back to you, you rank them, from the fewest heads to the most. What does this ranked list look like?

    Well, it will be what mathematicians call a "binomial distribution." The handy little BINOMDIST function in Microsoft Excel does the work for us. BINOMDIST(40,100,0.5,FALSE)*1000000 tells us the number of people who will "score" exactly 40 heads, for example: 10,843.87 on average — that is, if we were to do this entire thing many many times and average out the results. Similarly, BINOMDIST(29,100,0.5,TRUE)*1000000 tells us that 16.08 people, on average, will get 29 heads or fewer.

    Sticking close to these "expected" average numbers delivered by my pal BINOMDIST, I'm going to say that my particular trial delivered the following numbers of people with really high scores:

    4,473 people scored 62 heads
    2,698 people scored 63 heads
    1,560 people scored 64 heads
    864 people scored 65 heads
    458 people scored 66 heads
    232 people scored 67 heads
    113 people scored 68 heads
    52 people scored 69 heads
    23 people scored 70 heads
    nine people scored 71 heads
    four people scored 72 heads
    two people scored 73 heads
    one person scored 74 heads
    These 10,489 people — a tad more than one percent of our total population of "competitors" — are the high-scoring stars! Their average score is 63.22! High fliers!

    OK, we shall now concentrate on this 10,489 sub-population of high scorers, dismissing the other 989,511 mediocrities. You can keep the quarters, guys!

    So now I'm up on my reviewing stand with my bull horn, addressing my 10,489 high fliers — a group with an average score better than 63 heads in a hundred coin tosses. My instructions to them are precisely the same as my instructions to the original million: Each of you toss that coin a hundred times, note the number of heads you got, then report that number, with your name, to the orderlies when they come round.

    This new drill takes place. We collect the results. We look at them. What do we see? What, for example, will be the average number of heads?

    Why, it'll be 50, of course! Why would it be anything else? These "high scorers" have, in fact, no particular ability (assuming the coins are fair and fairly tossed, which I am assuming). They just got lucky the first time around. By the iron laws of chance, they are no more likely to be lucky the second time around, than anyone else.

    So the average of this high-flying group went from over 63 on the first drill, to 50 on the second. That's regression to the mean.

    This generalizes to any situation where (a) some process with a measurable outcome is being iterated (that is, repeated over again), and (b) the process is to some degree random.

    In my little thought experiment here, the process generating the measurable (number of heads) was perfectly random, so we got regression all the way back to the mean. In real-world situations, there is usually some non-randomness mixed in, so you don't get regression all the way back to the mean, only a part of the way back towards the mean. That is what caused the statistician to bark.

    In sexual reproduction, for example, a new genome (the baby's) is produced by mixing half the father's genome with half the mother's. Which genes get selected for each of those halves is to some degree random (as of course was the father's choice of a wife, and the mother's choice of a husband), so there will be regression towards the mean. That's why — on average, of course — short people have kids who are also short, but not as short as the parents; tall people have kids who are also tall, but not as tall as the parents; smart people have smart kids, but the kids are not, on average, as smart as their parents, … and so on. The shortness, tallness, smartness, etc. are to some degree chance effects, like getting 70 heads in a hundred coin tosses.

    Regression towards the mean. Got it? There'll be a quiz period on Monday.

    Note also the following point, which even some scientifically-sophisticated people miss. Regression towards the mean is a perfectly general arithmetical-statistical phenomenon. It is by no means just a phenomenon of genetics. It shows up in other areas — in industrial quality control, for example. It's math, not biology. Otherwise this section would be called "Biology Corner." See?

     

    , @Nico

    Everybody talks about it, but nobody can explain how this regression to the mean actually happens. One commenter made a good effort once, and it was helpful, but the ultimate takeaway was that the “mean” that is regressed to isn’t necessarily the racial mean.
     
    The problem is that people talk about mathematical concepts without fully understanding what it is they are talking about. Once in a while you get a very bright journalist like Steve Sailer who actually understands math and is ethical enough not to use it to lie for political or financial gain, but unfortunately legitimate notions become popular buzzwords thanks to the airheads who read their works.

    That said, the "how" regarding regression towards the mean is the wrong question to ask, because it is not a physical process or force. It is a conceptual descriptive of measurement trends. If I take one IQ test where I score 165, the probability that that score is a fluke is higher than if I had scored 130, and much higher than if I had scored 100. If I take several IQ tests and score an average if 165, the probability becomes higher that I am actually zeroing in on my true level. That is regression toward the mean. The phenomenon arises because the circumstances that lead to exceptionally deviant measurements are, well, exceptional, and therefore difficult to replicate perfectly. But if some significant part of the genetics and environment that led to an exceptionally high IQ can be isolated and paired with like mates, for a number of generations going, then it is very possible that a particular population becomes insular enough to regress toward its own higher-than-the-general-average "in-"mean.
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  216. @Jefferson
    "while Puerto Ricans are rarely completely black-looking."

    18 percent of San Juan's population is Black. It is nowhere near being rare. Percentage wise Puerto Rico has more Blacks than South Africa has Whites.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Juan,_Puerto_Rico#Demographics

    San Juan has a higher percentage of Blacks than cities like London and Los Angeles.

    That sounds believable to me. I haven’t been to San Juan. What percentage of Santo Domingo is black? In any case, as I said, I was just writing from my own experience. I don’t typically meet Puerto Ricans whom you might describe as “black” from their appearance, while I very often encounter Dominicans like that. (But I also encounter “white” Dominicans more commonly than “white” Puerto Ricans.)

    Anyway, those kids in the video are surely Dominican.

    Happy 4th.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "In any case, as I said, I was just writing from my own experience. I don’t typically meet Puerto Ricans whom you might describe as “black”"

    Than you must have never step foot in New York City or Newark, New Jersey. You also must have never heard of Tego Calderon or Claudette Ortiz or follow the careers of Puerto Rican MLB players.
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  217. @ben tillman

    Regression to the mean should’ve kicked in by the second/third generation, especially with the British Jamaicans.
     
    Everybody talks about it, but nobody can explain how this regression to the mean actually happens. One commenter made a good effort once, and it was helpful, but the ultimate takeaway was that the "mean" that is regressed to isn't necessarily the racial mean.

    I don’t know much about it, but I will take a stab. A person who is a statistical outlier in some particular (heritable) trait (or collection of traits) is an anomaly – a genetic accident, basically – so even though his own children are apt to be above average in terms of that trait, they are not apt to be as distant an outlier. Also, his children have to have one other person’s genes of course, and that person is not likely to carry the same extreme genotype. (I think both are significant. A person with an IQ of 170 will likely mate with someone with a lower IQ and have children with lower IQs – but even if two 170 IQ people mate, I think there children are quite unlikely to have 170 IQs because it is such an extreme abnormality – though I could be wrong about that, and I invite someone who knows genetics to comment.)

    Patrick Ewing’s parents were surely tall, but at 7’0″ he was surely considerably taller. And his own children would be likely to be very tall, but unlikely to be as extremely tall. Patrick Ewing Jr., as predicted by this notion, has regressed slightly to the mean, at 6’8″.

    However, toward what mean is Patrick Jr regressing? Human males? Black males? Ewing males? I would say they regress to the mean of the population that makes up any potential addition to the family’s gene pool. Ewings will probably continue to regress toward average height, but not quickly since tall people tend to mate with other tall people – though that tendency is not that strong.

    Stronger, it seems, is the tendency for high IQ people to mate with other high IQ people. To me, there’s no reason to think that the IQs of the descendants of the African or Indian intellectual elite who come to the US will regress to the average Gambian or Bengali peasant, as the mean toward which they regress is determined by the pool of potential future mates/additions to the gene pool. And high IQ people tend to mate with high IQ people. A genius’ IQ will regress among his descendents, but not every family’s IQ is fated to fall back to the human average – or their race’s average. It’s a little more likely that short people will continue to enter the Ewing gene pool and reduce the average Ewing height.

    The mean is not necessarily the racial mean, as a previous commenter said, because high IQ members of a race and lower-IQ members of the same race are not necessarily mixing so much, and less now than ever.

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  218. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Afro-Caribbean kids score about 0.4 standard deviations below the White British mean, which is pretty good. Also, 12% black London has a homicide rate of 1.6/100,000, which is much lower than 8% black Seattle or 6% black Portland.

    Afro-Caribbeans are outperforming their native mean substantially.

    There you go again with your deliberate half-truths and blatant misrepresentations.
    Look at the black per capita incarceration rate in London alone. Don’t lump them in with the general London population.
    If you do so, you will find it shockingly high, in fact just like black populations everywhere.

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Compared to American blacks, British Blacks seem to be incarcerated at about 1/3 the rate. http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/oct/11/black-prison-population-increase-england

    London's Afro-Caribbean population has a homicide rate of 7/100,000. For blacks in America, the homicide rate is 19/100,000.

    America incarcerates blacks 3x as often and has 1/3 the black homicide rate (at least for London blacks). Explain that.
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  219. Jo says:

    Before the “No Child Left Behind” act, the test scores were MUCH, MUCH, MUCH higher. I attended K-12 school in Puerto Rico, and my husband attended K-12 school in Texas. The person who got the better education out of the two was me prior to NCLB. That law ended most of the AP programs in Puerto Rico, and that took a toll on the test scores illustrated above. All the people making stupid racial comments do not know that the root of these failing scores is political. I lived this, and saw the decline. Why I had high scores and my brothers didn’t? My younger brother had lower 8th grade scores, but ended up going to a better high school thus improving his changes of getting into a good college. Our youngest brother got the lowest scores, by the time where the advanced classes were no longer in existence. I got TWO undegrad degrees, one of them is from the UPR.

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  220. Jo says:
    @Jefferson
    But according to the census, Puerto Rico is a 75 percent "White" island. Why do "White" Puerto Ricans perform so poorly in school? Puerto Rican "Whites" must be the dumbest "Whites" on the planet.

    A lot of people in the island do not take these tests seriously because they are not worth a grade. Second, after “No Child Left Behind” was enacted, many schools eliminated their advanced programs, thus producing these results. When my youngest brother when to middle school, the advanced program that I attended was eliminated because of the NCLB tests.

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  221. Jo says:
    @Beliavsky
    The 2813 Puerto Ricans who took the SAT in Puerto Rico in 2013 http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/2013/PR_13_03_03_01.pdf scored 452, 446, and 445 on average on the verbal, math, and writing sections. The 27,871 Puerto Ricans who took it anywhere (mostly residing in continental U.S.) http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/2013/TotalGroup-2013.pdf scored 456, 453, and 445 on average. The standard deviation of SAT section scores is about 100, so these are small differences. The average scores of whites were 527, 534, and 515. There is little evidence from SAT scores that the Puerto Rican educational system does a worse job of educating Puerto Ricans than the American one does.

    I got 524 in reading and 584 in math…and I didn’t even bother to study. I left parts of the test in blank. Sorry for not scoring anything lower than that. This was in 2004.

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  222. Jo says:
    @Jack D
    Where did these PR's get their Jewish blood and how could you tell? Did you test their DNA? Did they confide to you that they craved the blood of Christian children with which to make their mofongo?

    I am one of those who are part Jew. I found out through family and immigration registries. My paternal grandfather’s mother was a crypto-Jew; her family fled Burgos because they were Jewish. The great grandfather was adopted into a Sephardi Jew family, and came to PR at a young age. By the time he was in his 30′s he converted to Xtianity.

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  223. Jo says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Puerto Ricans actually perform much worse than their racial admixture would suggest. Admixture studies show that PRs are half-white by ancestry, but they perform much worse than that. That tends to indicate that there's something cultural that really screws up the people.

    The performance is not because of their ethnicity, is because many of those schools no longer offer actual advance placement classes due to the “No Child Left Behind” act. It’s incredible how ignorant many of the people in here are; making a POLITICAL situation into an ethnical situation. If shit like NCLB, or “common core” didn’t exist, the test scores would be higher. Also, if teachers could bribe the students somehow; many students don’t take these tests seriously solely because these tests don’t have any grade value. In the mind of the average student, these tests are a waste of time because the are not going to earn any form of extra credit but a bunch of strangers online making a bunch of assumptions based on their ethnicity.

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  224. @syonredux
    The mean predicted IQ would be 93 for PRs and 84 for AAs.

    IQ in Puerto Rico

    Table I features 26 studies for Puerto Rico. The single best study for estimating intelligence in Puerto Rico is the large 1977 standardization of the Raven Progressive Matrices—a nonverbal test of reasoning ability that is well designed for cross-cultural comparisons. IQ on this test was 82.8. Three more well-known IQ tests were normed on large samples, but this involved adapting the test items to another language and culture, which requires additional assumptions about cross-cultural comparability. IQ on all four tests was 82.7. All together, 19 studies provide scores that might appropriately be compared with U.S. norms: from these samples I estimated an IQ of 84.6 for Puerto Rico (Section Ic).
     

    IQ of Puerto Rican Americans:

    Table II features 45 studies for Puerto Ricans living in the parts of the United States that aren’t Puerto Rico (Yes, it has been awkward trying to communicate this technicality throughout the post). Four normal samples from Hawaii in the 20s and 30s had an average IQ of 74.2. An additional 30 studies provide adequate scores for the rest of the mainland United States. My estimate for Puerto Rican Americans from these samples was 84.7, but other methods suggest that this is too low:

    The 14 studies administered since 1980 exhibit a higher average: 87.4 (Section IIe).
    The 13 studies that compare white and mainlander samples directly suggest a relative IQ of 89.4 (Section IIf).
    SAT Reasoning Test data was compiled for the 37 years 1976-2013. Some 500,000 Puerto Ricans had a standard score of 88.2 (Section IIIb).
    Scores from the 30 IQ studies can be sub-divided by age and analyzed by birth cohort, creating 50 different samples with a time-invariant average of 86.9 (Section IVe).
    Taking an average of these five methods gives us a final IQ estimate of 87.3 for Puerto Rican Americans. This is close to Lloyd Dunn’s joint estimate of 88-90 for Puerto Ricans and Mexicans (Dunn, 1988).
     

    On the other hand, Puerto Rican islanders score over 1/3 of a standard deviation lower than would be predicted by their nonwhite ancestry. If we assume that moving to the mainland and fully assimilating the culture and the language could raise their IQ to, say, 92, then that would be exactly half of the gap between whites and Puerto Ricans explained by environmental differences.
     
    http://humanvarieties.org/2014/03/13/hvgiq-puerto-rico-2/

    Puerto Rican children do very poorly on IQ tests, but the adults perform better. One study, interpreted by Jason Malloy, found a mean IQ of 93 among PR-American HS students. I suppose bad home environment might be the issue.

    http://humanvarieties.org/2014/03/13/hvgiq-puerto-rico-2/

    I analyzed data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (Malloy, 2014b). This is a representative survey of high school students in 1995. The Puerto Rican teens had a PPVT IQ of 92.9.

    The point is that even if we assume a mean IQ of 87 for PRs, their island is performing far worse than even that. There’s something very screwy about PR.
    There’s also something very screwy about overwhelmingly white (84%) Uruguay. There is something about Latin America that’s resulting in poor performance. It goes beyond ethnicity.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    The point is that even if we assume a mean IQ of 87 for PRs, their island is performing far worse than even that. There’s something very screwy about PR.
     
    And I've commented on that:


    In terms of culture, well, Puerto Rico is Hispanic.And even European Hispanic culture has accomplished surprisingly little.Even Spain’s Golden Age was not all that golden when you compare it to what was going on in the rest of Western Europe.Spain from 1500-1650 was just keeping up (barely) with England, France, Italy, etc.Afterwards, it fell far behind ( cf Murray,Human Accomplishment, 338):

    Between 1650 and 1850-during the same two centuries when Britain, France, and Germany were producing hundreds of significant figures and even Italy in its decline produced several dozen-Spain produced a single major figure (Goya) and 11 significant figures.
     
    (Murray, Human Accomplishment , 338

    Physical environment: Tropical weather doesn’t seem to be very conducive to mental and physical exertion (Ellsworth Huntington has great data on the relationship between climate and human productivity in Mainsprings of Civilization:https://archive.org/stream/MainspringsOfCivilization#page/n3/mode/2u

    There’s also something very screwy about overwhelmingly white (84%) Uruguay.
     
    If Uruguay is anything like Argentina, it's Whites are not nearly as purely European as Whites in the USA:

    PLoS ONE has another article up about admixture in Argentina. The interesting aspect is that in its self-conception Argentina, like the United States of America or Australia, is a European settler nation, and therefore unlike Mexico, Boliva, or Brazil, each of whom de jure or de facto espouse a multicultural and multiracial identity. Buenos Ares is in its mentality more a Southern European city situated in the antipodes, with a touch of old Mitteleuropa (Argentines are avid consumers of psychoanalysis). As noted in the PLoS article, ~1 percent of the citizens of Argentina identify as indigenous, but ~20 percent of the ancestry of Argentina’s population seems to derive from Amerindian sources! The paper itself adds little new here. Rather, it increases the sample size, and confirms that the Amerindian ancestry does seem to be lower in Buenos Ares, the magnet for so much Italian immigration.

    But what is most interesting, though not necessarily surprising, is that of those Argentines who claim four European grandparents (N = 22), the average proportion of European ancestry was 91 percent. The issue here is that an individual who claims four European grandparents should have close to 100 percent European ancestry. So what’s going on? First, I think the use of ancestrally informative markers is probably introducing noise; we can’t be sure that there won’t be residual “non-European” ancestry even in Europeans. Second, the respondents might be honest about what they know, but their grandparents may have not told them the whole truth about their backgrounds With a standard deviation of 9 percent I’m pretty sure that some of these 22 individuals do have substantial non-European ancestry. I don’t think ancestrally informative markers would be off that far.

    For me the key fact to observe is that if you drew 22 random white (non-Hispanic) Americans you are almost certainly to get no more than a few percent non-European ancestry at most. If you selected Americans who claimed 4 European born grandparents there would be almost no non-European ancestry. Over the past year and a half I have done deeper analyses of friends who have received genotypes from 23andMe. These results align with what I’ve observed. White Americans generally look in vain for Native American ancestry. In contrast, white Latin Americans tend to have substantial non-European ancestry. And intriguingly it seems that many have unknown African ancestry. This highlights the difference between the settlement of Anglo-America, and Latin America. The demographic replacement of Amerindians in Anglo-America was radical and extreme. In contrast, even in self-consciously European settler regions such as South American’s southern cone a substantial proportion of Amerindian ancestry is present in contemporary populations. Because of the large number of Native Americans of mixed heritage it is likely that total Native American identified population is actually very similar to the amount of non-Hispanic Native American ancestry in the USA (i.e., numerous non-Native American identified whites and blacks with small quanta of ancestry will sum to be about the same absolute amount as the small number of Native Americans who are substantially indigenous). While 1.5 percent of Argentines identify as indigenous, 1 percent of Americans are Native American.

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/04/the-anglosphere-exception/#.VZUhVxtViko

     


    We investigated the bio-geographic ancestry of Argentineans, and quantified their genetic admixture, analyzing 246 unrelated male individuals from eight provinces of three Argentinean regions using ancestry-sensitive DNA markers (ASDM) from autosomal, Y and mitochondrial chromosomes. Our results demonstrate that European, Native American and African ancestry components were detectable in the contemporary Argentineans, the amounts depending on the genetic system applied, exhibiting large inter-individual heterogeneity. Argentineans carried a large fraction of European genetic heritage in their Y-chromosomal (94.1%) and autosomal (78.5%) DNA, but their mitochondrial gene pool is mostly of Native American ancestry (53.7%); instead, African heritage was small in all three genetic systems (<4%). Population substructure in Argentina considering the eight sampled provinces was very small based on autosomal (0.92% of total variation was between provincial groups, p = 0.005) and mtDNA (1.77%, p = 0.005) data (none with NRY data), and all three genetic systems revealed no substructure when clustering the provinces into the three geographic regions to which they belong. The complex genetic ancestry picture detected in Argentineans underscores the need to apply ASDM from all three genetic systems to infer geographic origins and genetic admixture. This applies to all worldwide areas where people with different continental ancestry live geographically close together.

     

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/12/how-argentina-became-white/#.VZUiXxtViko

    There is something about Latin America that’s resulting in poor performance. It goes beyond ethnicity.
     
    Not if you include culture as a part of ethnicity.As I noted earlier, Hispanic culture is markedly inferior to Anglo culture.Being an ex-British colony is, in general terms, better than being an ex-Iberian colony
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  225. @Anonymous
    There you go again with your deliberate half-truths and blatant misrepresentations.
    Look at the black per capita incarceration rate in London alone. Don't lump them in with the general London population.
    If you do so, you will find it shockingly high, in fact just like black populations everywhere.

    Compared to American blacks, British Blacks seem to be incarcerated at about 1/3 the rate. http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/oct/11/black-prison-population-increase-england

    London’s Afro-Caribbean population has a homicide rate of 7/100,000. For blacks in America, the homicide rate is 19/100,000.

    America incarcerates blacks 3x as often and has 1/3 the black homicide rate (at least for London blacks). Explain that.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    As Ronald Reagan famously said to Walter Mondale' 'there you go again'
    More blatant misrepresentation, half truths, and downright falsehood peddled as 'fact'.

    Look. I'm not interested in the differential between *black* incarceration rates in the USA versus *black* incarceration rates in the UK. That, quite simply is NOT the argument at hand here, it's must a meaningless obfuscation you've thrown in for your own reasons to muddy the water. It's got as much relevance here as the rate of continental drift in Alaska vs. Venezuela.
    No, the point I'm attempting to make past your self centered self interested impenetrable fog, is that black criminality in the UK is many many times higher on a per capita basis than white criminality.
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  226. @ben tillman

    No, those figures are based on testing. See the link from Truth.

    http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2014/07/25/genographic-project-dna-results-reveal-details-of-puerto-rican-history/
     
    They are based on testing but not on testing of a cross-section of Puerto Ricans. They tested "326 individuals from southeastern Puerto Rico and Vieques". So, no, the testing does nothing to dispel the reasonable inference that the 66%-white figure is not even close to reality.

    In Vieques, 28% of residents identify as black. In PR as a whole, only 12%. So it’d seem possible that the sampled respondents might’ve been blacker than the typical PR.

    Here’s a study (based on PRs in primary care clinics) that found ancestry that was 67% white, 18% black, 15% Native.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1950843/

    The 192 Puerto Ricans were recruited from six primary-care clinics in Puerto Rico as part of the Genetics of Asthma in Latino Americans study.14 All study participants were aged 8–40 years. Individuals of European (from the United States), West African (from Nigeria), and Native American (Pima and Mayan) descent were included, to approximate the ancestral populations. With use of the Affymetrix Human Mapping 100K GeneChip set,15 192 Puerto Ricans, 42 Europeans, 37 Africans, and 30 Native Americans were genotyped. Details of data-quality assessment and statistical analysis are provided in appendix A.

    Under the assumption of a trihybrid population model and of 112,584 SNPs, marker-specific ancestries were estimated, with the program SABER,11 for all autosomes for each individual. Averaged over 192 Puerto Ricans, the genomewide mean estimated European ancestry was .67, African ancestry was .18, and Native American ancestry was .15.18 For each individual, we then computed Δ ancestry by subtracting the genomewide ancestry from locus-specific ancestry for each of the three ancestry components. We then calculated average locus-specific Δ ancestry values for the 192 subjects.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    In Vieques, 28% of residents identify as black. In PR as a whole, only 12%. So it’d seem possible that the sampled respondents might’ve been blacker than the typical PR.
     
    Perhaps that is true. However, it would have been helpful if the article had given an explanation to justify the use of the 326-person sample.
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  227. @syonredux

    Also, 12% black London has a homicide rate of 1.6/100,000, which is much lower than 8% black Seattle or 6% black Portland.
     
    Yeah, and the UK has much more stringent gun control and massive use of CCTV surveillance.And the Black population overall is much lower:

    The 2011 UK Census recorded 1,904,684 residents who identified as "Black/African/Caribbean/Black British", accounting for 3 per cent of the total UK population.
     
    In contrast, the USA (according to the 2010 census) is 12.6% Black.Blacks in the USA have reached critical mass.

    The U.S. has the same rate of surveillance as the UK. We have our own equivalent of CCTV.

    As I mentioned before, the black population (1.1 million) is much larger and more dense than the black population of Washington state and Oregon.

    Gun control might be a factor, but low incarceration + nonlethal police + gun control is the liberal formula for low crime.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    The U.S. has the same rate of surveillance as the UK. We have our own equivalent of CCTV.
     
    It's not nearly as extensive:

    The British Security Industry Authority (BSIA) estimated there are up to 5.9 million closed-circuit television cameras in the country, including 750,000 in “sensitive locations” such as schools, hospitals and care homes.

    The survey’s maximum estimate works out at one for every 11 people in the UK, although the BSIA said the most likely figure was 4.9 million cameras in total, or one for every 14 people.
    Both projections were higher than previous estimates which ranged between 1.5 million and four million.[......]

    He added: “Effective CCTV schemes are an invaluable source of crime detection and evidence for the police. For example, in 2009 95 per cent of Scotland Yard murder cases used CCTV footage as evidence.”
    But Nick Pickles, director of the privacy campaign Big Brother Watch, said: “This report is another stark reminder of how out of control our surveillance culture has become.
    “With potentially more than five million CCTV cameras across country, including more than 300,000 cameras in schools, we are being monitored in a way that few people would recognise as a part of a healthy democratic society.
    “This report should be a wake up call that in modern Britain there are people in positions of responsibility who seem to think ‘1984’ was an instruction manual.”

     

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/10172298/One-surveillance-camera-for-every-11-people-in-Britain-says-CCTV-survey.html

    As I mentioned before, the black population (1.1 million) is much larger and more dense than the black population of Washington state and Oregon.
     
    And, as I keep on mentioning, one must take into account the fact that Blacks in the USA are over 10% of the population of the entire country, vs 3 % in the UK.Black American culture is more or less separated from Anglo White culture.That is much less true in the UK

    Gun control might be a factor, but low incarceration + nonlethal police + gun control is the liberal formula for low crime.
     
    Gun control is the key factor.The police can only be "de-militarized" if the citizenry are disarmed.
    , @syonredux

    The U.S. has the same rate of surveillance as the UK. We have our own equivalent of CCTV.
     
    Compare London to New York:

    London mayor Boris Johnson recently visited New York City on a trade mission. On Wednesday, he was given a look at the NYPD surveillance network, which developed largely in response to 9/11.

    The NYPD can tap into roughly 6,000 street cameras, two-thirds of which are privately owned. There are another 7,000 in public housing and more than 4,000 in the city’s subway stations.

    Impressive? Not really. The city’s surveillance network pales in comparison to Greater London’s “Ring of Steel.” In the U.K.’s capital, roughly half-million cameras observe public space; that’s one camera for every 16 people.


    In fact, in light of recent policing controversies and heightened terror threats, New York should strongly consider imitating London’s surveillance model.

    England’s network of closed circuit television cameras first came into being two decades ago, and has since expanded to include millions of cameras across the country. According to the Metropolitan Police, London’s CCTV solves about six crimes a day, including the identification of the “Ipswich Ripper” (a notorious serial killer) and the Neo-Nazi “nail bomber.”

     

    http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/bryan-schonfeld-expand-nyc-surveillance-camera-network-article-1.2117122
    , @syonredux

    Gun control might be a factor, but low incarceration + nonlethal police + gun control is the liberal formula for low crime.
     
    And, if we are using the UK as the model, we should probably add highly centralized policing.
    , @syonredux
    RE: UK vs US cops,

    I can't vouch for this, but the guy who wrote this claims to be a cop:

    I believe the most critical difference is the amount of training required of UK police. New hires attend a "police college" course of several months before going into the field to work for another few months under close supervision (sorry, I don't have the precise durations here, but it's considerably more training than most U.S. police receive). They then return to the police college for several more weeks until they are assigned to their duty stations. From here, on-the-job training is similar to that in the U.S., where the new constable works with a senior partner for several months before he is given a solo assignment. He is still closely supervised and his performance reviewed frequently for his first year to two years of service.
     

    Constables who carry firearms, called Authorised Firearms Officers or AFOs, are selected even more carefully and have years of experience before they can even apply. Many are already qualified as pursuit drivers because the Armed Response Vehicles (ARVs) they operate have to respond quickly and sometimes over significant distances. Prospective AFOs first spend a week becoming familiar with the 9mm Glock pistol and H&K MP5 automatic rifle, then spend another six weeks in tactical training. Once qualified, they attend one full day of firearms refresher training each month and a two-week course each year. With a few exceptions, they do not carry the firearms routinely. The firearms are locked in a compartment within the ARV, and can be deployed only under restricted conditions and usually with the authorization of an inspector-level officer. AFOs have to be in superior physical condition, and an injury or weight gain usually means leaving that unit, at least temporarily. Some AFOs also carry TASERs. These are not available to regular constables.

    U.S. cops get 40-80 hours of firearms training in the academy, and may not actually train with their weapons again for years. They do qualify periodically (sometimes as infrequently as once per year) in a marksmanship course of 50 rounds or so, but those who fail to pass typically just repeat the course until they qualify. Most U.S. police agencies regard the ammunition necessary for firearms training to be too expensive to provide regular firearms training. U.S. police carry their firearms all the time, on duty and off, and need no supervisory authorization to deploy them.
     
    http://www.quora.com/How-do-UK-police-compare-to-US-police
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  228. @syonredux

    Afro-Caribbean kids score about 0.4 standard deviations below the White British mean, which is pretty good.
     
    What's their racial makeup like? European vs Black ancestry percentages?Also, we need to account for the filtering effect of immigrating from the Caribbean to Britain, etc

    Also, 12% black London has a homicide rate of 1.6/100,000, which is much lower than 8% black Seattle or 6% black Portland.
     
    But they are still responsible for a disproportionate amount of crime in London:

    Figures from the Office for National Statistics showed that in 2007 an estimated 10.6 percent of London's population of 7,556,900 were black.[.....]

    In June 2010 The Sunday Telegraph, through a Freedom of Information Act request, obtained statistics on accusations of crime broken down by race from the Metropolitan Police Service.[n 2] The figures showed that the majority of males who were accused of violent crimes in 2009–10 were black. Of the recorded 18,091 such accusations against males, 54 percent accused of street crimes were black; for robbery, 59 percent; and for gun crimes, 67 percent.[25] Robbery, drug use, and gang violence have been associated with black people since the 1960s.[26] In the 1980s and 1990s, the police associated robbery with black people. In 1995, the Metropolitan Police commissioner Paul Condon said that the majority of robberies in London were committed by black people.[27]

    Street crimes include muggings, assault with intent to rob, and snatching property. Black males accounted for 29 percent of the male victims of gun crime and 24 percent of the male victims of knife crime.[25] Similar statistics were recorded for females. On knife crime, 45 percent of suspected female perpetrators were black; for gun crime, 58 percent; and for robberies, 52 percent.[28]

    Operation Trident was set up in March 1998 by the Metropolitan Police to investigate gun crime in London's black community after black-on-black shootings in Lambeth and Brent.[29]

    Between April 2005 and January 2006, figures from the Metropolitan Police Service showed that black people accounted for 46 percent of car-crime arrests generated by automatic number plate recognition cameras.[30]

    In London in 2006, 75% of the victims of gun crime and 79% of the suspects were "from the African/Caribbean community."[31]

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_Kingdom#Race_and_crime_in_London

    Afro-Caribbeans are outperforming their native mean substantially.
     
    But how representative are they of their native populations?

    What’s their racial makeup like? European vs Black ancestry percentages?Also, we need to account for the filtering effect of immigrating from the Caribbean to Britain, etc

    Purely black Afro-Caribbean kids scored 0.46 SDs below the White British mean.
    When I cited the 0.4 figure, I was looking at the gap between ACs and the overall British mean. The AC-British gap is 0.4 SDs, while the AC-WB gap is 0.46 SDs. Still large, but not huge.

    Mixed race AC kids score 0.19 SDs below the white mean. See the chart below.

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-iq-gap-is-no-longer-a-black-and-white-issue/

    But how representative are they of their native populations?

    I haven’t found enough information to determine that. Blacks in Jamaica and the West Indies are the descendants of slaves. Many of them immigrated to the UK in the 1950s and 1960s, but I’m not sure if the migrants were completely representative of the general population back in Caribbean islands.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Purely black Afro-Caribbean kids scored 0.46 SDs below the White British mean.
     
    How do we know that they are "purely Black?" Was their DNA tested?Or does "purely Black" simply mean that neither of their parents was European?

    When I cited the 0.4 figure, I was looking at the gap between ACs and the overall British mean. The AC-British gap is 0.4 SDs, while the AC-WB gap is 0.46 SDs. Still large, but not huge.
     
    Nearly half an SD is pretty important

    Mixed race AC kids score 0.19 SDs below the white mean. See the chart below.
     
    Have the "mixed-race" kids had their DNA tested? Are they 50% Euro? Or is the percentage higher?For example, if the Black parent is 20% Euro and the White parent is 100% Euro, that would make their child 60% Euro.

    I haven’t found enough information to determine that. Blacks in Jamaica and the West Indies are the descendants of slaves. Many of them immigrated to the UK in the 1950s and 1960s, but I’m not sure if the migrants were completely representative of the general population back in Caribbean islands.
     
    This is a very important issue.To cite only the most obvious example, compare South Asians in the UK to South Asians in the USA.The South Asians who went to the USA are quite different in terms of socio-economic metrics.

    For that matter, compare and contrast the Ulster Anglo-Scots immigrants to the mainland British North American colonies to the Puritan settlers in the Massachusetts Bay Colony.Very different socio-economic profiles.
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  229. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Compared to American blacks, British Blacks seem to be incarcerated at about 1/3 the rate. http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/oct/11/black-prison-population-increase-england

    London's Afro-Caribbean population has a homicide rate of 7/100,000. For blacks in America, the homicide rate is 19/100,000.

    America incarcerates blacks 3x as often and has 1/3 the black homicide rate (at least for London blacks). Explain that.

    As Ronald Reagan famously said to Walter Mondale’ ‘there you go again’
    More blatant misrepresentation, half truths, and downright falsehood peddled as ‘fact’.

    Look. I’m not interested in the differential between *black* incarceration rates in the USA versus *black* incarceration rates in the UK. That, quite simply is NOT the argument at hand here, it’s must a meaningless obfuscation you’ve thrown in for your own reasons to muddy the water. It’s got as much relevance here as the rate of continental drift in Alaska vs. Venezuela.
    No, the point I’m attempting to make past your self centered self interested impenetrable fog, is that black criminality in the UK is many many times higher on a per capita basis than white criminality.

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    Look. I’m not interested in the differential between *black* incarceration rates in the USA versus *black* incarceration rates in the UK.
     
    Why not?

    quite simply is NOT the argument at hand here
     
    Actually it is.

    It’s got as much relevance here as the rate of continental drift in Alaska vs. Venezuela.
     
    If this were a geographic history blog, I think continental drift would be an issue of discussion.

    black criminality in the UK is many many times higher on a per capita basis than white criminality.

     

    When did I deny that?
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  230. Ragno says:

    ….among Puerto Rican 8th graders tested in mathematics in 2013, 95% scored Below Basic, 5% scored Basic, and (to the limits of rounding) 0% scored Proficient, and 0% scored Advanced. These results were the same in 2011.

    In Krugman’s bete noire of West Virginia, 42% are Basic, 20% are Proficient, and 3% are Advanced. In Mississippi, 40% are Basic, 18% Proficient, and 3% are Advanced. In Alabama, 40% are Basic, 16% are Proficient, and 3% are Advanced. (Unmentioned by Krugman, the lowest scores among public school students are in liberal Washington D.C.: 35% Basic, 15% Proficient, and 4% Advanced.)

    The only thing this indicates – besides the glaring fact that the dredel-spinners of Big Media consistently and unfailingly slander poor whites by pretending they’re just melanin-deficient Negroes (a fact borne out by Krugman’s oops! I forgot! “oversight” of the test scores of DC hottentots) – is that Our Alien Elites don’t much care about uncomfortable truth (aka ‘hatefacts’), particularly when it interferes with their ongoing social-engineering laboratory to utterly break the will and spirit of white Americans, particularly rural and Southern whites.

    But I’ve got news for the Paul Krugmans of this world – those dirty-faced Southern white boys are better than you and yours ever were. And they’ll be here long after your kind have moved on to feed off new host organisms.

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  231. @Anonymous
    As Ronald Reagan famously said to Walter Mondale' 'there you go again'
    More blatant misrepresentation, half truths, and downright falsehood peddled as 'fact'.

    Look. I'm not interested in the differential between *black* incarceration rates in the USA versus *black* incarceration rates in the UK. That, quite simply is NOT the argument at hand here, it's must a meaningless obfuscation you've thrown in for your own reasons to muddy the water. It's got as much relevance here as the rate of continental drift in Alaska vs. Venezuela.
    No, the point I'm attempting to make past your self centered self interested impenetrable fog, is that black criminality in the UK is many many times higher on a per capita basis than white criminality.

    Look. I’m not interested in the differential between *black* incarceration rates in the USA versus *black* incarceration rates in the UK.

    Why not?

    quite simply is NOT the argument at hand here

    Actually it is.

    It’s got as much relevance here as the rate of continental drift in Alaska vs. Venezuela.

    If this were a geographic history blog, I think continental drift would be an issue of discussion.

    black criminality in the UK is many many times higher on a per capita basis than white criminality.

    When did I deny that?

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  232. Rob McX says:
    @ben tillman

    Regression to the mean should’ve kicked in by the second/third generation, especially with the British Jamaicans.
     
    Everybody talks about it, but nobody can explain how this regression to the mean actually happens. One commenter made a good effort once, and it was helpful, but the ultimate takeaway was that the "mean" that is regressed to isn't necessarily the racial mean.

    This explanation of regression to the mean from John Derbyshire (not easy to link straight to the original text, so I’ll quote it here in full):

    “Regression to the mean.” What is it? I get asked. How does it work? Where does it apply? And so on. OK, here goes.

    The first thing to be said is that a statistician will rap you across the knuckles with a ruler if you say “regression to the mean.” While rapping, he will bark angrily: “It’s ‘regression towards the mean,’ you innumerate dolt!”

    In defiance of that statistician, I shall show you an actual case of regression to the mean. Our statistician is right, and regression to the mean is an artificial situation, a hypothetical extreme. Sometimes, though, a phenomenon is more easily understood from its extremes, however unrealistic.

    First, the mise en scène. You are standing on a podium in the open air. Think of it as a general’s reviewing platform. In front of you are your “troops,” lined up in ranks and files. There are a million of them, precisely a million. They await your word of command. Oh, did I mention that each one is holding a fair coin? — a quarter, say. Here comes your word of command.

    “Listen up! I want each and every one of you to toss his coin a hundred times and count the heads. When you have finished, orderlies will come among you to collect your results. Each person will report his name to the orderly, along with a single number — the number of heads you got in your hundred tosses. This will, of course, be some whole number between zero and a hundred. Got it? Right — begin!”

    When they are through tossing and the lists — name, number of heads — have come back to you, you rank them, from the fewest heads to the most. What does this ranked list look like?

    Well, it will be what mathematicians call a “binomial distribution.” The handy little BINOMDIST function in Microsoft Excel does the work for us. BINOMDIST(40,100,0.5,FALSE)*1000000 tells us the number of people who will “score” exactly 40 heads, for example: 10,843.87 on average — that is, if we were to do this entire thing many many times and average out the results. Similarly, BINOMDIST(29,100,0.5,TRUE)*1000000 tells us that 16.08 people, on average, will get 29 heads or fewer.

    Sticking close to these “expected” average numbers delivered by my pal BINOMDIST, I’m going to say that my particular trial delivered the following numbers of people with really high scores:

    4,473 people scored 62 heads
    2,698 people scored 63 heads
    1,560 people scored 64 heads
    864 people scored 65 heads
    458 people scored 66 heads
    232 people scored 67 heads
    113 people scored 68 heads
    52 people scored 69 heads
    23 people scored 70 heads
    nine people scored 71 heads
    four people scored 72 heads
    two people scored 73 heads
    one person scored 74 heads
    These 10,489 people — a tad more than one percent of our total population of “competitors” — are the high-scoring stars! Their average score is 63.22! High fliers!

    OK, we shall now concentrate on this 10,489 sub-population of high scorers, dismissing the other 989,511 mediocrities. You can keep the quarters, guys!

    So now I’m up on my reviewing stand with my bull horn, addressing my 10,489 high fliers — a group with an average score better than 63 heads in a hundred coin tosses. My instructions to them are precisely the same as my instructions to the original million: Each of you toss that coin a hundred times, note the number of heads you got, then report that number, with your name, to the orderlies when they come round.

    This new drill takes place. We collect the results. We look at them. What do we see? What, for example, will be the average number of heads?

    Why, it’ll be 50, of course! Why would it be anything else? These “high scorers” have, in fact, no particular ability (assuming the coins are fair and fairly tossed, which I am assuming). They just got lucky the first time around. By the iron laws of chance, they are no more likely to be lucky the second time around, than anyone else.

    So the average of this high-flying group went from over 63 on the first drill, to 50 on the second. That’s regression to the mean.

    This generalizes to any situation where (a) some process with a measurable outcome is being iterated (that is, repeated over again), and (b) the process is to some degree random.

    In my little thought experiment here, the process generating the measurable (number of heads) was perfectly random, so we got regression all the way back to the mean. In real-world situations, there is usually some non-randomness mixed in, so you don’t get regression all the way back to the mean, only a part of the way back towards the mean. That is what caused the statistician to bark.

    In sexual reproduction, for example, a new genome (the baby’s) is produced by mixing half the father’s genome with half the mother’s. Which genes get selected for each of those halves is to some degree random (as of course was the father’s choice of a wife, and the mother’s choice of a husband), so there will be regression towards the mean. That’s why — on average, of course — short people have kids who are also short, but not as short as the parents; tall people have kids who are also tall, but not as tall as the parents; smart people have smart kids, but the kids are not, on average, as smart as their parents, … and so on. The shortness, tallness, smartness, etc. are to some degree chance effects, like getting 70 heads in a hundred coin tosses.

    Regression towards the mean. Got it? There’ll be a quiz period on Monday.

    Note also the following point, which even some scientifically-sophisticated people miss. Regression towards the mean is a perfectly general arithmetical-statistical phenomenon. It is by no means just a phenomenon of genetics. It shows up in other areas — in industrial quality control, for example. It’s math, not biology. Otherwise this section would be called “Biology Corner.” See?

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  233. syonredux says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    The U.S. has the same rate of surveillance as the UK. We have our own equivalent of CCTV.

    As I mentioned before, the black population (1.1 million) is much larger and more dense than the black population of Washington state and Oregon.

    Gun control might be a factor, but low incarceration + nonlethal police + gun control is the liberal formula for low crime.

    The U.S. has the same rate of surveillance as the UK. We have our own equivalent of CCTV.

    It’s not nearly as extensive:

    The British Security Industry Authority (BSIA) estimated there are up to 5.9 million closed-circuit television cameras in the country, including 750,000 in “sensitive locations” such as schools, hospitals and care homes.

    The survey’s maximum estimate works out at one for every 11 people in the UK, although the BSIA said the most likely figure was 4.9 million cameras in total, or one for every 14 people.
    Both projections were higher than previous estimates which ranged between 1.5 million and four million.[......]

    He added: “Effective CCTV schemes are an invaluable source of crime detection and evidence for the police. For example, in 2009 95 per cent of Scotland Yard murder cases used CCTV footage as evidence.”
    But Nick Pickles, director of the privacy campaign Big Brother Watch, said: “This report is another stark reminder of how out of control our surveillance culture has become.
    “With potentially more than five million CCTV cameras across country, including more than 300,000 cameras in schools, we are being monitored in a way that few people would recognise as a part of a healthy democratic society.
    “This report should be a wake up call that in modern Britain there are people in positions of responsibility who seem to think ‘1984’ was an instruction manual.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/10172298/One-surveillance-camera-for-every-11-people-in-Britain-says-CCTV-survey.html

    As I mentioned before, the black population (1.1 million) is much larger and more dense than the black population of Washington state and Oregon.

    And, as I keep on mentioning, one must take into account the fact that Blacks in the USA are over 10% of the population of the entire country, vs 3 % in the UK.Black American culture is more or less separated from Anglo White culture.That is much less true in the UK

    Gun control might be a factor, but low incarceration + nonlethal police + gun control is the liberal formula for low crime.

    Gun control is the key factor.The police can only be “de-militarized” if the citizenry are disarmed.

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    It’s not nearly as extensive:

     

    There are over 30 million surveillance cameras in the U.S.

    And, as I keep on mentioning, one must take into account the fact that Blacks in the USA are over 10% of the population of the entire country, vs 3 % in the UK.Black American culture is more or less separated from Anglo White culture.That is much less true in the UK

     

    How many people do you need before a separate culture can form? The British Pakistanis, who are 2% of the population, have a very distinct culture in cities like Bradford, Oldham, Birmingham, and Manchester.

    Gun control is the key factor.The police can only be “de-militarized” if the citizenry are disarmed.

     

    That might be true, but a lot of gun owners argue that gun ownership has a deterrent effect on crime.
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  234. syonredux says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    What’s their racial makeup like? European vs Black ancestry percentages?Also, we need to account for the filtering effect of immigrating from the Caribbean to Britain, etc

     

    Purely black Afro-Caribbean kids scored 0.46 SDs below the White British mean.
    When I cited the 0.4 figure, I was looking at the gap between ACs and the overall British mean. The AC-British gap is 0.4 SDs, while the AC-WB gap is 0.46 SDs. Still large, but not huge.

    Mixed race AC kids score 0.19 SDs below the white mean. See the chart below.

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-iq-gap-is-no-longer-a-black-and-white-issue/

    But how representative are they of their native populations?

     

    I haven't found enough information to determine that. Blacks in Jamaica and the West Indies are the descendants of slaves. Many of them immigrated to the UK in the 1950s and 1960s, but I'm not sure if the migrants were completely representative of the general population back in Caribbean islands.

    Purely black Afro-Caribbean kids scored 0.46 SDs below the White British mean.

    How do we know that they are “purely Black?” Was their DNA tested?Or does “purely Black” simply mean that neither of their parents was European?

    When I cited the 0.4 figure, I was looking at the gap between ACs and the overall British mean. The AC-British gap is 0.4 SDs, while the AC-WB gap is 0.46 SDs. Still large, but not huge.

    Nearly half an SD is pretty important

    Mixed race AC kids score 0.19 SDs below the white mean. See the chart below.

    Have the “mixed-race” kids had their DNA tested? Are they 50% Euro? Or is the percentage higher?For example, if the Black parent is 20% Euro and the White parent is 100% Euro, that would make their child 60% Euro.

    I haven’t found enough information to determine that. Blacks in Jamaica and the West Indies are the descendants of slaves. Many of them immigrated to the UK in the 1950s and 1960s, but I’m not sure if the migrants were completely representative of the general population back in Caribbean islands.

    This is a very important issue.To cite only the most obvious example, compare South Asians in the UK to South Asians in the USA.The South Asians who went to the USA are quite different in terms of socio-economic metrics.

    For that matter, compare and contrast the Ulster Anglo-Scots immigrants to the mainland British North American colonies to the Puritan settlers in the Massachusetts Bay Colony.Very different socio-economic profiles.

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    How do we know that they are “purely Black?” Was their DNA tested?Or does “purely Black” simply mean that neither of their parents was European?

     

    Self-identification. Mixed-race blacks had the option of classifying themselves in the "Mixed" category. Afro-Caribbeans have trivial, if any, white admixture typically. However, extensive intermingling has created lots of mixed race British kids with black dads and white moms. Presumably they racially classify themselves differently than the kids with two Afro-Caribbean parents.

    Have the “mixed-race” kids had their DNA tested? Are they 50% Euro? Or is the percentage higher?For example, if the Black parent is 20% Euro and the White parent is 100% Euro, that would make their child 60% Euro.

     

    Lots of African-Americans got white ancestry by living in an overwhelmingly white nation for many generations. That happened less frequently in the West Indies and Jamaica, in which blacks were the overwhelming majority of the population. So Jamaican immigrant to the UK is probably far less than 20% white.

    This is a very important issue.To cite only the most obvious example, compare South Asians in the UK to South Asians in the USA.The South Asians who went to the USA are quite different in terms of socio-economic metrics.

     

    Afro-Caribbean migrants to the UK seem to mainly have been blue collar laborers, of which many were former soldiers. Definitely not the underclass of Jamaica, but not professional like South Asian migrants.
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  235. syonredux says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Puerto Rican children do very poorly on IQ tests, but the adults perform better. One study, interpreted by Jason Malloy, found a mean IQ of 93 among PR-American HS students. I suppose bad home environment might be the issue.

    http://humanvarieties.org/2014/03/13/hvgiq-puerto-rico-2/

    I analyzed data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (Malloy, 2014b). This is a representative survey of high school students in 1995. The Puerto Rican teens had a PPVT IQ of 92.9.

     

    The point is that even if we assume a mean IQ of 87 for PRs, their island is performing far worse than even that. There's something very screwy about PR.
    There's also something very screwy about overwhelmingly white (84%) Uruguay. There is something about Latin America that's resulting in poor performance. It goes beyond ethnicity.

    The point is that even if we assume a mean IQ of 87 for PRs, their island is performing far worse than even that. There’s something very screwy about PR.

    And I’ve commented on that:

    In terms of culture, well, Puerto Rico is Hispanic.And even European Hispanic culture has accomplished surprisingly little.Even Spain’s Golden Age was not all that golden when you compare it to what was going on in the rest of Western Europe.Spain from 1500-1650 was just keeping up (barely) with England, France, Italy, etc.Afterwards, it fell far behind ( cf Murray,Human Accomplishment, 338):

    Between 1650 and 1850-during the same two centuries when Britain, France, and Germany were producing hundreds of significant figures and even Italy in its decline produced several dozen-Spain produced a single major figure (Goya) and 11 significant figures.

    (Murray, Human Accomplishment , 338

    Physical environment: Tropical weather doesn’t seem to be very conducive to mental and physical exertion (Ellsworth Huntington has great data on the relationship between climate and human productivity in Mainsprings of Civilization:https://archive.org/stream/MainspringsOfCivilization#page/n3/mode/2u

    There’s also something very screwy about overwhelmingly white (84%) Uruguay.

    If Uruguay is anything like Argentina, it’s Whites are not nearly as purely European as Whites in the USA:

    PLoS ONE has another article up about admixture in Argentina. The interesting aspect is that in its self-conception Argentina, like the United States of America or Australia, is a European settler nation, and therefore unlike Mexico, Boliva, or Brazil, each of whom de jure or de facto espouse a multicultural and multiracial identity. Buenos Ares is in its mentality more a Southern European city situated in the antipodes, with a touch of old Mitteleuropa (Argentines are avid consumers of psychoanalysis). As noted in the PLoS article, ~1 percent of the citizens of Argentina identify as indigenous, but ~20 percent of the ancestry of Argentina’s population seems to derive from Amerindian sources! The paper itself adds little new here. Rather, it increases the sample size, and confirms that the Amerindian ancestry does seem to be lower in Buenos Ares, the magnet for so much Italian immigration.

    But what is most interesting, though not necessarily surprising, is that of those Argentines who claim four European grandparents (N = 22), the average proportion of European ancestry was 91 percent. The issue here is that an individual who claims four European grandparents should have close to 100 percent European ancestry. So what’s going on? First, I think the use of ancestrally informative markers is probably introducing noise; we can’t be sure that there won’t be residual “non-European” ancestry even in Europeans. Second, the respondents might be honest about what they know, but their grandparents may have not told them the whole truth about their backgrounds With a standard deviation of 9 percent I’m pretty sure that some of these 22 individuals do have substantial non-European ancestry. I don’t think ancestrally informative markers would be off that far.

    For me the key fact to observe is that if you drew 22 random white (non-Hispanic) Americans you are almost certainly to get no more than a few percent non-European ancestry at most. If you selected Americans who claimed 4 European born grandparents there would be almost no non-European ancestry. Over the past year and a half I have done deeper analyses of friends who have received genotypes from 23andMe. These results align with what I’ve observed. White Americans generally look in vain for Native American ancestry. In contrast, white Latin Americans tend to have substantial non-European ancestry. And intriguingly it seems that many have unknown African ancestry. This highlights the difference between the settlement of Anglo-America, and Latin America. The demographic replacement of Amerindians in Anglo-America was radical and extreme. In contrast, even in self-consciously European settler regions such as South American’s southern cone a substantial proportion of Amerindian ancestry is present in contemporary populations. Because of the large number of Native Americans of mixed heritage it is likely that total Native American identified population is actually very similar to the amount of non-Hispanic Native American ancestry in the USA (i.e., numerous non-Native American identified whites and blacks with small quanta of ancestry will sum to be about the same absolute amount as the small number of Native Americans who are substantially indigenous). While 1.5 percent of Argentines identify as indigenous, 1 percent of Americans are Native American.

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/04/the-anglosphere-exception/#.VZUhVxtViko

    We investigated the bio-geographic ancestry of Argentineans, and quantified their genetic admixture, analyzing 246 unrelated male individuals from eight provinces of three Argentinean regions using ancestry-sensitive DNA markers (ASDM) from autosomal, Y and mitochondrial chromosomes. Our results demonstrate that European, Native American and African ancestry components were detectable in the contemporary Argentineans, the amounts depending on the genetic system applied, exhibiting large inter-individual heterogeneity. Argentineans carried a large fraction of European genetic heritage in their Y-chromosomal (94.1%) and autosomal (78.5%) DNA, but their mitochondrial gene pool is mostly of Native American ancestry (53.7%); instead, African heritage was small in all three genetic systems (<4%). Population substructure in Argentina considering the eight sampled provinces was very small based on autosomal (0.92% of total variation was between provincial groups, p = 0.005) and mtDNA (1.77%, p = 0.005) data (none with NRY data), and all three genetic systems revealed no substructure when clustering the provinces into the three geographic regions to which they belong. The complex genetic ancestry picture detected in Argentineans underscores the need to apply ASDM from all three genetic systems to infer geographic origins and genetic admixture. This applies to all worldwide areas where people with different continental ancestry live geographically close together.

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/12/how-argentina-became-white/#.VZUiXxtViko

    There is something about Latin America that’s resulting in poor performance. It goes beyond ethnicity.

    Not if you include culture as a part of ethnicity.As I noted earlier, Hispanic culture is markedly inferior to Anglo culture.Being an ex-British colony is, in general terms, better than being an ex-Iberian colony

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    One of the justifications for the U.S. keeping Puerto Rico in 1898 while giving Cuba its independence from Spain is that everybody knew that Puerto Ricans were a bunch of illiterate peons while Cuba had a large, impressive bourgeois.

    My guess is that ambitious Spaniards with something on the ball went to Cuba while Puerto Rico mostly got farm laborers.
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  236. syonredux says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    The U.S. has the same rate of surveillance as the UK. We have our own equivalent of CCTV.

    As I mentioned before, the black population (1.1 million) is much larger and more dense than the black population of Washington state and Oregon.

    Gun control might be a factor, but low incarceration + nonlethal police + gun control is the liberal formula for low crime.

    The U.S. has the same rate of surveillance as the UK. We have our own equivalent of CCTV.

    Compare London to New York:

    London mayor Boris Johnson recently visited New York City on a trade mission. On Wednesday, he was given a look at the NYPD surveillance network, which developed largely in response to 9/11.

    The NYPD can tap into roughly 6,000 street cameras, two-thirds of which are privately owned. There are another 7,000 in public housing and more than 4,000 in the city’s subway stations.

    Impressive? Not really. The city’s surveillance network pales in comparison to Greater London’s “Ring of Steel.” In the U.K.’s capital, roughly half-million cameras observe public space; that’s one camera for every 16 people.

    In fact, in light of recent policing controversies and heightened terror threats, New York should strongly consider imitating London’s surveillance model.

    England’s network of closed circuit television cameras first came into being two decades ago, and has since expanded to include millions of cameras across the country. According to the Metropolitan Police, London’s CCTV solves about six crimes a day, including the identification of the “Ipswich Ripper” (a notorious serial killer) and the Neo-Nazi “nail bomber.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/bryan-schonfeld-expand-nyc-surveillance-camera-network-article-1.2117122

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    that’s one camera for every 16 people.
     
    London has 1 camera for every 16 people, but the US has 1 camera for every 10.
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  237. @JohnnyWalker123
    In Vieques, 28% of residents identify as black. In PR as a whole, only 12%. So it'd seem possible that the sampled respondents might've been blacker than the typical PR.

    Here's a study (based on PRs in primary care clinics) that found ancestry that was 67% white, 18% black, 15% Native.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1950843/

    The 192 Puerto Ricans were recruited from six primary-care clinics in Puerto Rico as part of the Genetics of Asthma in Latino Americans study.14 All study participants were aged 8–40 years. Individuals of European (from the United States), West African (from Nigeria), and Native American (Pima and Mayan) descent were included, to approximate the ancestral populations. With use of the Affymetrix Human Mapping 100K GeneChip set,15 192 Puerto Ricans, 42 Europeans, 37 Africans, and 30 Native Americans were genotyped. Details of data-quality assessment and statistical analysis are provided in appendix A.

    Under the assumption of a trihybrid population model and of 112,584 SNPs, marker-specific ancestries were estimated, with the program SABER,11 for all autosomes for each individual. Averaged over 192 Puerto Ricans, the genomewide mean estimated European ancestry was .67, African ancestry was .18, and Native American ancestry was .15.18 For each individual, we then computed Δ ancestry by subtracting the genomewide ancestry from locus-specific ancestry for each of the three ancestry components. We then calculated average locus-specific Δ ancestry values for the 192 subjects.
     

    In Vieques, 28% of residents identify as black. In PR as a whole, only 12%. So it’d seem possible that the sampled respondents might’ve been blacker than the typical PR.

    Perhaps that is true. However, it would have been helpful if the article had given an explanation to justify the use of the 326-person sample.

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  238. syonredux says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    The U.S. has the same rate of surveillance as the UK. We have our own equivalent of CCTV.

    As I mentioned before, the black population (1.1 million) is much larger and more dense than the black population of Washington state and Oregon.

    Gun control might be a factor, but low incarceration + nonlethal police + gun control is the liberal formula for low crime.

    Gun control might be a factor, but low incarceration + nonlethal police + gun control is the liberal formula for low crime.

    And, if we are using the UK as the model, we should probably add highly centralized policing.

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  239. syonredux says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    The U.S. has the same rate of surveillance as the UK. We have our own equivalent of CCTV.

    As I mentioned before, the black population (1.1 million) is much larger and more dense than the black population of Washington state and Oregon.

    Gun control might be a factor, but low incarceration + nonlethal police + gun control is the liberal formula for low crime.

    RE: UK vs US cops,

    I can’t vouch for this, but the guy who wrote this claims to be a cop:

    I believe the most critical difference is the amount of training required of UK police. New hires attend a “police college” course of several months before going into the field to work for another few months under close supervision (sorry, I don’t have the precise durations here, but it’s considerably more training than most U.S. police receive). They then return to the police college for several more weeks until they are assigned to their duty stations. From here, on-the-job training is similar to that in the U.S., where the new constable works with a senior partner for several months before he is given a solo assignment. He is still closely supervised and his performance reviewed frequently for his first year to two years of service.

    Constables who carry firearms, called Authorised Firearms Officers or AFOs, are selected even more carefully and have years of experience before they can even apply. Many are already qualified as pursuit drivers because the Armed Response Vehicles (ARVs) they operate have to respond quickly and sometimes over significant distances. Prospective AFOs first spend a week becoming familiar with the 9mm Glock pistol and H&K MP5 automatic rifle, then spend another six weeks in tactical training. Once qualified, they attend one full day of firearms refresher training each month and a two-week course each year. With a few exceptions, they do not carry the firearms routinely. The firearms are locked in a compartment within the ARV, and can be deployed only under restricted conditions and usually with the authorization of an inspector-level officer. AFOs have to be in superior physical condition, and an injury or weight gain usually means leaving that unit, at least temporarily. Some AFOs also carry TASERs. These are not available to regular constables.

    U.S. cops get 40-80 hours of firearms training in the academy, and may not actually train with their weapons again for years. They do qualify periodically (sometimes as infrequently as once per year) in a marksmanship course of 50 rounds or so, but those who fail to pass typically just repeat the course until they qualify. Most U.S. police agencies regard the ammunition necessary for firearms training to be too expensive to provide regular firearms training. U.S. police carry their firearms all the time, on duty and off, and need no supervisory authorization to deploy them.

    http://www.quora.com/How-do-UK-police-compare-to-US-police

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    Thanks. That sounds plausible to me. Perhaps better training is responsible for fewer police-inflicted homicides and better crime stats in the UK.
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  240. @syonredux

    Purely black Afro-Caribbean kids scored 0.46 SDs below the White British mean.
     
    How do we know that they are "purely Black?" Was their DNA tested?Or does "purely Black" simply mean that neither of their parents was European?

    When I cited the 0.4 figure, I was looking at the gap between ACs and the overall British mean. The AC-British gap is 0.4 SDs, while the AC-WB gap is 0.46 SDs. Still large, but not huge.
     
    Nearly half an SD is pretty important

    Mixed race AC kids score 0.19 SDs below the white mean. See the chart below.
     
    Have the "mixed-race" kids had their DNA tested? Are they 50% Euro? Or is the percentage higher?For example, if the Black parent is 20% Euro and the White parent is 100% Euro, that would make their child 60% Euro.

    I haven’t found enough information to determine that. Blacks in Jamaica and the West Indies are the descendants of slaves. Many of them immigrated to the UK in the 1950s and 1960s, but I’m not sure if the migrants were completely representative of the general population back in Caribbean islands.
     
    This is a very important issue.To cite only the most obvious example, compare South Asians in the UK to South Asians in the USA.The South Asians who went to the USA are quite different in terms of socio-economic metrics.

    For that matter, compare and contrast the Ulster Anglo-Scots immigrants to the mainland British North American colonies to the Puritan settlers in the Massachusetts Bay Colony.Very different socio-economic profiles.

    How do we know that they are “purely Black?” Was their DNA tested?Or does “purely Black” simply mean that neither of their parents was European?

    Self-identification. Mixed-race blacks had the option of classifying themselves in the “Mixed” category. Afro-Caribbeans have trivial, if any, white admixture typically. However, extensive intermingling has created lots of mixed race British kids with black dads and white moms. Presumably they racially classify themselves differently than the kids with two Afro-Caribbean parents.

    Have the “mixed-race” kids had their DNA tested? Are they 50% Euro? Or is the percentage higher?For example, if the Black parent is 20% Euro and the White parent is 100% Euro, that would make their child 60% Euro.

    Lots of African-Americans got white ancestry by living in an overwhelmingly white nation for many generations. That happened less frequently in the West Indies and Jamaica, in which blacks were the overwhelming majority of the population. So Jamaican immigrant to the UK is probably far less than 20% white.

    This is a very important issue.To cite only the most obvious example, compare South Asians in the UK to South Asians in the USA.The South Asians who went to the USA are quite different in terms of socio-economic metrics.

    Afro-Caribbean migrants to the UK seem to mainly have been blue collar laborers, of which many were former soldiers. Definitely not the underclass of Jamaica, but not professional like South Asian migrants.

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    Self-identification.
     
    That's always problematic.

    Mixed-race blacks had the option of classifying themselves in the “Mixed” category. Afro-Caribbeans have trivial, if any, white admixture typically.
     
    Do we have any studies on that?I've known Afro-Caribbean (mostly Jamaican) academics who were visibly admixed.

    However, extensive intermingling has created lots of mixed race British kids with black dads and white moms. Presumably they racially classify themselves differently than the kids with two Afro-Caribbean parents.
     
    Presumably, but we don't know.

    Lots of African-Americans got white ancestry by living in an overwhelmingly white nation for many generations. That happened less frequently in the West Indies and Jamaica, in which blacks were the overwhelming majority of the population.
     
    White Spaniards were heavily outnumbered by Amerinds in Mexico, yet they contributed in massive amounts to the Mexican gene pool.Small numbers of dominant males can spread a lot of seed....

    So Jamaican immigrant to the UK is probably far less than 20% white.
     
    But we don't know.There are two vital questions here: what is the European admixture rate in ex-British Caribbean colonies like Jamaica? And what is the European admixture rate for people who emigrated from ex-British Caribbean colonies and went to the UK?

    Afro-Caribbean migrants to the UK seem to mainly have been blue collar laborers, of which many were former soldiers. Definitely not the underclass of Jamaica,
     
    Which shows a filtering effect.Using Black Americans as a guide, military-caste Blacks tend to be selected for certain traits: discipline, conscientiousness, orderliness, etc
    , @Anonymous
    Hardly any were 'former soldiers' as you put it.
    Where the Hell did you get that piece of misinformation from?
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