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From an email from Couch Scientist:

A suggested addition to your bag of tricks.

Surname Privilege Factor

The federal government employs something like 2.7 million people. Many of their jobs and salaries are listed on this website:

https://www.fedsdatacenter.com/federal-pay-rates/

. You can run a surname through the website to get a list of people with that surname and you can then sort by salary. By doing so, you can quickly get a sense of how that surname compares to the average surname. One might call this a “privilege” factor.

For instance, let’s take two surnames. Shapiro (of whom you have written) and Sailer.

Shapiro is one of the more elite Ashkenazi surnames. For example, eight different David Shapiros have Wikipedia pages. While there are many prominent Shapiros, on the other hand, there aren’t that many extremely famous Shapiros (I suspect this is just bad luck.)

Shapiro is a little like Hamilton, the most highbrow of the common British surnames. In the UK, according to economic historian Gregory Clark’s The Son Also Rises, Hamiltons are twice as likely as average to have graduated from Oxford or Cambridge.

Sailer is a pretty run of the mill Germanic surname in the U.S. that is most common in the Dakotas. There are more Sailers in the U.S. than you might think, but Sailers are not particularly prominent.

There are also Seilers and Saylors.

The Shapiro family average is $122,649.02. The average fed by comparison makes $82,709,

There are about 110 federal Shapiros, so the sample size is reasonably adequate.

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/data-analysis-documentation/federal-employment-reports/reports-publications/profile-of-federal-civilian-non-postal-employees/

I would give the Shapiro family a +$40,000 privilege factor (Shapiro average minus Fed average).

On the other hand, Sailers are much fewer in number, at least in working for the Federal Government. There is a small sample size of six, with an average of $65,592.00.

I would give the Sailers a -$17,000 privilege factor.

Take another name. You recently mentioned gubernatorial candidate Pritzker, with whom I am unfamiliar. I ran the name through the website and it only pinged two federal Pritzkers. They were both high earners, with an average of $180,000 in salary. So, that’s a privilege factor +$97,291. Of course the sample size is small.

A sizable fraction of all the Pritzkers in the U.S. are members of the famous Chicago billionaire clan that played a large role in the rise of Barack Obama to the White House. For example, the first time I heard the name “Pritzker” was in the early 1980s from a lady at UCLA business school who had spent a year as a governess in France for a family named Pritzker. Of course, this was not some random Pritzker, but part of the Pritzker clan who owned Hyatt hotels. Of the many Pritzkers I’ve heard of, every single one has been a wealthy Chicago Pritzker.

To use an example from something you have written about Gregory Clark’s research, take the name Percy. Of the 16 Percys, the average is $97,601, a privilege factor of +$14,892.

Percy, such as the Hotspur in Shakespeare’s Henry IV Part 1, is a Norman surname, like Jane Austen’s Mr. Darcy. The Normans conquered England in 1066 and people with French Norman surnames remain over-represented in the betters jobs in Britain today. Some of that is likely due to name-changing, and I’m not sure how true that is in the U.S.

But it remains a prestigious name. For example, when I moved to Chicago in 1982, Charles Percy was the Republican senator. He was mentioned as Presidential Timber from 1968 to 1988.

Meanwhile, the 40 Thatchers have an average pretty close to the Federal employee average: 85,931 or a moderate privilege factor of +$3,222.

In Britain, Thatcher is a fairly downscale surname. In general, if your namesake had a downscale job like thatching roofs when surnames were chosen around 1300, you’re probably a little downscale today. If you had a literate upscale job like clerk (Clark or Palmer), you are likely to be a little upscale today.

How useful is this factor? My guess is that the distribution of a surname among federal salaries is pretty representative of the surname’s economic distribution as a whole. If that’s true, then I think it is pretty useful information in this day and age when we are looking at privilege.

An interesting question is how much correlation is there between upscale surnames in Britain and the U.S. For example, Hamilton is the best educated common surname in Britain and it’s the name of the most expensive ticket Broadway musical of all time in the U.S.

But is Huntington, a fairly rare but overachieving name in the U.S., as upscale in Britain?

 
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  1. IHTG says:

    Great post.

    What’s the most downscale common Jewish surname? There’s probably less variance there, but it’s worth checking.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Cohen is among the more common Ashkenazi surnames, but it's not particularly high-achieving by Jewish standards.

    I wonder if the Coen Brothers are descendants of some guy who changed the spelling of his name for social climbing reasons, the way my surname descends from some guy named Seiler (ropemaker) who became mayor of a small town in Switzerland and changed the spelling of his name to Sailer for snobbish purposes.

    In Britain, Smythes (a snobbish variant of Smith) really are more high achieving than Smiths.

    I don't know if Psmith actually exists or whether P.G. Wodehouse made it up.

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  2. Try typing in “Soros”, or one of its early variants, like “Beelzebub “.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Try typing in “Soros”, or one of its early variants, like “Beelzebub “.
     
    Considering that Soros is an Esperanto name, how do others of that "ethnicity" perform? Are they citizens of the world?
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    Home run! :-)
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  3. @IHTG
    Great post.

    What's the most downscale common Jewish surname? There's probably less variance there, but it's worth checking.

    Cohen is among the more common Ashkenazi surnames, but it’s not particularly high-achieving by Jewish standards.

    I wonder if the Coen Brothers are descendants of some guy who changed the spelling of his name for social climbing reasons, the way my surname descends from some guy named Seiler (ropemaker) who became mayor of a small town in Switzerland and changed the spelling of his name to Sailer for snobbish purposes.

    In Britain, Smythes (a snobbish variant of Smith) really are more high achieving than Smiths.

    I don’t know if Psmith actually exists or whether P.G. Wodehouse made it up.

    Read More
    • Replies: @IHTG
    Yeah, that's probably statistically inevitable simply on account of how common it is (most common surname in Israel by a significant margin).

    Non-Cohen and Levi surnames, though?

    , @Rosamond Vincy
    He made it up. Riffing on Greek words pronounced with silent P in English: pseudo, pneumonia, psoriasis.
    , @Marat Said
    In junior high (in Boston) there were twins with the surname B'Smith, written exactly like that.
    , @Lurker
    Isn't that 'Smythe' rather than 'Smythes'?

    Maybe there is a tendency for upscale Smiths to become Smythes. But downwardly mobile Smythes might feel the urge to change to Smith to fit in? This would bed in the surname privilege over time.
    , @anonymous
    I have a basic, working knowledge of German but admittedly didn't know that the word for "rope" is "seil" (pr. "zile"). So... "Der Seiler" would indeed translate to "ropemaker".

    Which proves an old adage to be true--you DO learn something new every day.

    Tschuss!!

    , @snorlax
    "Cohen" and variants denote membership in ancient Judaism's priestly caste (similar to Brahmins), who (historically and in Orthodox Judaism) are also outright forbidden to marry gentiles, converts or half-Jews, so if it isn't a particularly prestigious surname it would seem to contradict both the thesis of this post and HBD explanations for Ashkenazi achievement.
    , @Dmitry
    'Cohen' and 'Levi' are specially protected names in Israel.

    It's illegal to change your name to 'Cohen' or 'Levi' in Israel. (There may be a couple of other legally protected names in Israel, but those are the two I'm aware of).

    That's why there's the joke that so many Russians in Israel change their name to 'Lavi'. Because they all wanted to change their name to 'Levi' when they arrive in Israel - and then find out that it's not allowed to, so they end up with 'Lavi'.


    ----------------

    As for high-achieving or low-achieving. Names like 'Cohen' and 'Levi' will not be different from average - as they are found both equally in Middle Eastern and European populations (probably even more common with Middle Eastern demographics).

    , @Mike Zwick
    Aren't names like Kohn, Cohn, Kahn, and Caan just other versions of Cohen?
    , @Coemgen
    Some of the Cohens may actually be Cohans,
    , @Kat Grey
    I always believed Cohen was a Sephardic surname, specifically from Portugal.
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  4. Shapiro is one of the more elite Ashkenazi surnames.

    The physicist Max Tegmark changed his name from Shapiro because there were already so many academic physicists named Shapiro, including at least one Max Shapiro and several M. Shapiros.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    E.g., there were two reporters named Shapiro, T. Rees Shapiro of the Washington Post and Jeffrey Epstein Shapiro of the Washington Examiner, who played admirable roles in exposing the Haven Monahan hoax.

    On the other hand, there don't appear to have been any world famous Shapiros. That's probably just luck.

    , @Yan Shen
    Let's also not forget our uh good friend Ben Shapiro, aka The Hebrew Hammer.
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  5. guest says:

    “One might call this a ‘privilege’ factor”

    One might also call it “strawberry popsicle squeeze farts,” but why?

    I’m fairly certain a Lothrop Stoddard would take surname data as evidence of strong germ-plasm (or however he’s put it) associated with the more privileged surnames.

    On the other hand, your Current-Year citizen would figure it’s unfair advantage engendered by a socially unjust environment.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bomag

    strong germ-plasm... socially unjust environment
     
    Blasé indifference is not a good argument.

    It helps to notice that people rise and fall with some independence of the environment.
    , @AndrewR
    Not mutually exclusive things. On average, compared to poorer people, wealthier people likely tend to have genes and customs more conducive to generating and keeping wealth. That doesn't necessarily mean that many wealthier people don't benefit from certain practices and systems that give them an unfair advantage. The fact that George W. Bush (who was average, at best, in both intelligence and ambition, and who never would have risen in social class had he been born poor) was elected president [...twice...] proves beyond any reasonable doubt that "unfair advantage engendered by a socially unjust environment" is a major factor in the success of many people. The same of course could be said about Barack Obama (via different injustices) and probably Donald Trump too.
    , @AndrewR
    Upon further reflection, I am forced to conclude that socialists and communists probably tend to be extremely stupid. I can't think of any explanation besides sheer stupidity for why they haven't made Paris Hilton their poster girl for everything wrong with our current socioeconomic system, because she basically does embody everything wrong with our society. In an ideal world, given her personal attributes, she would earn her bread through cleaning toilets. Unfortunately, she is very wealthy and famous, and this is 100% due to a combination of being born into a wealthy family and fitting a socially desirable (among a significant portion of the population who inexplicably seek to emulate her) archetype of the attractive, slutty, airhead, blonde mean girl. Any reasonable person would agree that she is the epitome of highly dysfunctional societal priorities and toxic socioeconomic incentive structures, yet leftists are silent about her.
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  6. Yan Shen says:

    Not bad, average Shen federal salary comes out to $115,771.72, despite Shen not being a particularly common Chinese surname! Unfortunately though, I doubt this represents any kind of privilege. As I’ve repeatedly been arguing, Asian Americans are actually the most openly discriminated against group in American society today.

    I suspect more interesting than just looking at salary is also looking at what fields these people actually work in. Which groups of people in this country are disproportionately engaged in value creating STEM activities?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    How is Shen your surname, Mr. Yan? Do you write your name with your given name first and family name last like Americans? Frankly, I'm offended by your appropriation of our Western ways! Next thing you know, you'll be writing about rule-of-law, the Magna Carta, and the Constitution, or even taking tests without making an effort to obtain all the answers first. After that, it'll be cooking different types of meals for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and then writing with an alphabet that's shorter than 3,000 characters. For shame! Your ancestors are probably rolling over in their graves still dissipated ashes stuck in an eddy in the Huang He delta.

    I suspect more interesting than just looking at salary is also looking at what fields these people actually work in. Which groups of people in this country are disproportionately engaged in value creating STEM activities?
     
    It's the US Feral Government, Mr. Yan or Mr. Shen! What possible useful activities could any of those people on the list be doing?
    , @scrivener3
    I think that's part of the point: all advantages are not due to unearned privilege, If Smiths make more than Jeffersons it might be earned not a sign of unfairness.
    , @Anonym
    Not bad, average Shen federal salary comes out to $115,771.72, despite Shen not being a particularly common Chinese surname! Unfortunately though, I doubt this represents any kind of privilege. As I’ve repeatedly been arguing, Asian Americans are actually the most openly discriminated against group in American society today.

    What the Asian-Americans giveth, the Asian-Americans taketh away on USB flash drives.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    As I’ve repeatedly been arguing, Asian Americans are actually the most openly discriminated against group in American society today.
     
    Right, because Asian American life expectancy is going down, and Asian Americans are the object of the white privilege Maoist struggle sessions, and Asian American don't make as much money as white Americans.

    Come on, you are a member of a privileged overclass. Your repeated arguing is nothing more than argument bereft of facts, and devoid of reasoning.
    , @Alden
    There are some Asians living in America Activists websites and organizations that weep and wail about how oppressed they are. They also sue the government for more affirmative action jobs and benefits.

    Of course they mostly agitate on behalf of Hmongs , Cambodians and others who’ve been on welfare for generations.
    But you should find those organizations.

    Commenting on random websites that Asians living in America are discriminated against won’t help your cause. Find and join an Asians living in America Activist group.
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  7. @Tim Howells

    Shapiro is one of the more elite Ashkenazi surnames.
     
    The physicist Max Tegmark changed his name from Shapiro because there were already so many academic physicists named Shapiro, including at least one Max Shapiro and several M. Shapiros.

    E.g., there were two reporters named Shapiro, T. Rees Shapiro of the Washington Post and Jeffrey Epstein Shapiro of the Washington Examiner, who played admirable roles in exposing the Haven Monahan hoax.

    On the other hand, there don’t appear to have been any world famous Shapiros. That’s probably just luck.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Or maybe my conception that Shapiro is a high achieving Jewish surname and Cohen is a low ranking one goes back to Nathaniel Weyl's books. From a review of Weyl:


    Levine, Epstein, Stern, Shapiro, and Kaplan outrank by nine to four in descending order such names as Cohen in twenty rosters of eminence.
     
    , @Desiderius
    Could also be that prominence (as you put it) is negatively correlated with fame.
    , @UK reader
    Helen Shapiro, the singer, may not have been world famous but she was very famous in the UK in the early 1960s. She came from a poor family but I would guess that they are rich now.

    Are there any black surnames? I thought Toney was black but then a quick image search showed some white faces.
    , @a reader
    Miss Shapiro is not well known either.
    , @a reader
    There are about 100 notable Shapiro's.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I2cG-ed6hw

    Not a bad voice for age 14.

    , @biz

    On the other hand, there don’t appear to have been any world famous Shapiros
     
    Robert Shapiro (OJ's lawyer)? Ben Shapiro?
    , @ScarletNumber
    I think the most famous Shapiro is Robert.
    , @Dmitry
    RKM engine was proposed by the physicist/poet Boris Shapiro

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RKM_engine


    There's well-known Israeli mathematician Ilya Shapiro

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Piatetski-Shapiro

    On Russian wikipedia there's a huge list of famous people with the surname.

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A8%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE

    --------

    Although the information is not useful until we know what the number of people with this surname are in the respective countries.

    Edit - 24,000 people with this surname in the United States.

    , @Stumpy Pepys
    Steve, the most famous Shapiro is/was Tokyo Shapiro. I tell ya I got some dynamite deals on stereo equipment from that Japanese Jew in the late eighties. Dynamite!
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  8. @Steve Sailer
    E.g., there were two reporters named Shapiro, T. Rees Shapiro of the Washington Post and Jeffrey Epstein Shapiro of the Washington Examiner, who played admirable roles in exposing the Haven Monahan hoax.

    On the other hand, there don't appear to have been any world famous Shapiros. That's probably just luck.

    Or maybe my conception that Shapiro is a high achieving Jewish surname and Cohen is a low ranking one goes back to Nathaniel Weyl’s books. From a review of Weyl:

    Levine, Epstein, Stern, Shapiro, and Kaplan outrank by nine to four in descending order such names as Cohen in twenty rosters of eminence.

    Read More
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  9. Yan Shen says:
    @Tim Howells

    Shapiro is one of the more elite Ashkenazi surnames.
     
    The physicist Max Tegmark changed his name from Shapiro because there were already so many academic physicists named Shapiro, including at least one Max Shapiro and several M. Shapiros.

    Let’s also not forget our uh good friend Ben Shapiro, aka The Hebrew Hammer.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Let’s also not forget our uh good friend Ben Shapiro, aka The Hebrew Hammer.
     
    Let’s also not forget our uh good friend Ben Shapiro, aka The Hebrew Hammerhead Shark. TFIFY.
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  10. Cohen is a name that has a hebrew meaning unlike some of the german yiddish jewish names:

    Cohen is a Hebrew name (כהן) which literally means “priest” (mostly of the Jewish religion). It’s also a common Jewish surname which represents an ancient biblical priestly heritage.

    from babynamewizrd.com

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples. The number of present day Smiths cannot correspond to the percentage of actual working blacksmiths in the population at the time surnames were adopted. (how many blacksmiths does a society need?) It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.

    Similarly the name Fletcher meaning arrow maker while uncommon is still less rare than one would think. How many full time arrow makers (arrowsmiths?) can there have been?

    The intersection of linguistics and actual multi-layered meaning of words and names is a fascinating topic.

    For example the word safe for a strong box is a seemingly mundane word until you realize that having a safe to store your valuables makes you feel “safe” connecting the two meanings of the word.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Smiths are extremely common, but tend not to be world famous. Adam Smith is likely the most famous Smith ever.
    , @guest
    My surname is a place-name, and I am taken to understand ultimately derives from "shelf" in Old English (though I'm not English) and "enclosure." Which means I don't know what.

    Does it signify high, low, or inbetweeny status? I dunno. If the name were distinguished, I'd probably have heard more about my co-namers. As it is, I'm only familiar with a couple of celebrities with my name. Neither of whom are very accomplished, though one is hot. Or at least used to be.

    , @Desiderius

    how many blacksmiths does a society need?
     
    Don't forget silversmiths and goldsmiths.

    It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.
     
    Hephaestus was married to Aphrodite, after all. I'm sure Roissy would have plenty to read into that.
    , @Desiderius

    How many full time arrow makers (arrowsmiths?) can there have been?
     
    Considering that their descendants probably got into the gun business, quite a few. By that time names had already been set, so they wouldn't have become Smiths despite being in effect gunsmiths.
    , @englishmike

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples. The number of present day Smiths cannot correspond to the percentage of actual working blacksmiths in the population at the time surnames were adopted. (how many blacksmiths does a society need?) It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.
     
    At Wikipedia you can find some other reasons for the large number of present-day Smiths. For example, the name was often given to African-American slaves who retained it after emancipation and it was sometimes adopted by native Americans.
    , @Logan
    How many full time arrow makers (arrowsmiths?) can there have been?

    More than you might think. During a battle of the Hundred Years War the English army might shoot off ten thousand plus arrows each minute.

    An arrow takes a LOT more time to make than a cartridge, especially when made by hand.

    Also, it is probable most arrows of the time were made by farmers during the winter slow season. Not necessarily full-time fletchers at all.
    , @PV van der Byl
    The Arabic equivalent for Smith or blacksmith is Haddad, an extremely common name in Arab countries. The vast majority are, of course, Muslim but many are also Christian and even a few are Mizrachic Jews.
    , @njguy73

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples.
     
    How many Smiths were originally Schmidts, Lefebvres, Ferraros, Ferreros, Smitses, Goffs, or Kovacs?

    Note: Commenter Jonathan Mason stated the same in Comment #40.

    , @Antlitz Grollheim
    It could be that Smith was a relatively large proportion of a certain smaller class of artisans that grew to a larger proportion of the overall population as the country became more middle class in general.
    , @Bill Jones
    Between my own name and the regular, non-contractured Johnson: Son of John may be more common than Smith.

    Son-of-John is of course, what the women claim, they could well be son-of-robert.
    , @Simon Tugmutton
    A "smith" was originally someone who forged, then later fashioned, things using a hammer. A prefix (e.g. "black-", "gold"-, "wood"-) then indicated what materials he worked on. Something similar happened with the term "wright". A wright was simply a workman, one who did not necessarily use a hammer, but later the distinction between a smith and a wright became blurred (e.g. a "wheelwright" should more properly have been called a "wheelsmith").

    According to Skeat, "smith" originates in a lost verb meaning "to forge", while "wright" is related to "work". Another form of that word is the adjective "wrought", as in "wrought iron" – which should of course be "smithed iron"!
    , @David Davenport
    Cohen is a Hebrew name (כהן) which literally means “priest” (mostly of the Jewish religion). It’s also a common Jewish surname which represents an ancient biblical priestly heritage.

    And "Cohen" is probably cognate with "Khan."

    Consider the name ( or is it an honorific title ?) "Aga Kahn."
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  11. @jesse helms think-alike
    Cohen is a name that has a hebrew meaning unlike some of the german yiddish jewish names:

    Cohen is a Hebrew name (כהן) which literally means "priest" (mostly of the Jewish religion). It's also a common Jewish surname which represents an ancient biblical priestly heritage.
     

    from babynamewizrd.com

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples. The number of present day Smiths cannot correspond to the percentage of actual working blacksmiths in the population at the time surnames were adopted. (how many blacksmiths does a society need?) It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.

    Similarly the name Fletcher meaning arrow maker while uncommon is still less rare than one would think. How many full time arrow makers (arrowsmiths?) can there have been?

    The intersection of linguistics and actual multi-layered meaning of words and names is a fascinating topic.

    For example the word safe for a strong box is a seemingly mundane word until you realize that having a safe to store your valuables makes you feel "safe" connecting the two meanings of the word.

    Smiths are extremely common, but tend not to be world famous. Adam Smith is likely the most famous Smith ever.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    I'm going to sound like my surname is Smith (it's not), but is that really fair?

    Smiths were 1.01% of the US in 1990 and 0.83% in 2010. Adam Smith is probably in the top-100 of famous people from the Anglo-Saxon world--so it's about expected value.

    There are currently five Smiths in the House of Representatives and one in the Senate. So 6/535.


    I would guess that, statistically, by law of large numbers, every common name will be slightly below average. They're basically average, but get pushed down slightly by those relatively rare surnames that outperform.
    , @Jasper Been
    I beg to differ!! I believe the most famous would be Anna Nicole Smith!
    , @slumber_j
    I dunno: Mark E. Smith of The Fall, Anna Nicole Smith, The Smiths, uh... Aerosmith,...
    , @Old Palo Altan
    If "Smith" is common socially, then "Smithson", the mere son of a smith, should be even more so.
    But in fact it is perhaps the grandest English name of all, at least once it was transmogrified into "Percy" by the heir to the eponymous estates and, ultimately, the first Duke of Northumberland of the third creation.
    And, of course, an illegitimate son of the house gave us the Smithsonian.
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  12. @Yan Shen
    Not bad, average Shen federal salary comes out to $115,771.72, despite Shen not being a particularly common Chinese surname! Unfortunately though, I doubt this represents any kind of privilege. As I've repeatedly been arguing, Asian Americans are actually the most openly discriminated against group in American society today.

    I suspect more interesting than just looking at salary is also looking at what fields these people actually work in. Which groups of people in this country are disproportionately engaged in value creating STEM activities?

    How is Shen your surname, Mr. Yan? Do you write your name with your given name first and family name last like Americans? Frankly, I’m offended by your appropriation of our Western ways! Next thing you know, you’ll be writing about rule-of-law, the Magna Carta, and the Constitution, or even taking tests without making an effort to obtain all the answers first. After that, it’ll be cooking different types of meals for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and then writing with an alphabet that’s shorter than 3,000 characters. For shame! Your ancestors are probably rolling over in their graves still dissipated ashes stuck in an eddy in the Huang He delta.

    I suspect more interesting than just looking at salary is also looking at what fields these people actually work in. Which groups of people in this country are disproportionately engaged in value creating STEM activities?

    It’s the US Feral Government, Mr. Yan or Mr. Shen! What possible useful activities could any of those people on the list be doing?

    Read More
    • LOL: JMcG
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    Asians--world champion cultural appropriators.

    Old Yan has even carefully observed our traditions of racial grievance and whining and learned to do it over trivial to non-existence stuff like a Jewish guy.

    Seriously old boy, if your kid can't get into Harvard with his test prepped SAT scores and all that violin playing ... bitch to the Jews in charge, not the rest of us.
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  13. IHTG says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Cohen is among the more common Ashkenazi surnames, but it's not particularly high-achieving by Jewish standards.

    I wonder if the Coen Brothers are descendants of some guy who changed the spelling of his name for social climbing reasons, the way my surname descends from some guy named Seiler (ropemaker) who became mayor of a small town in Switzerland and changed the spelling of his name to Sailer for snobbish purposes.

    In Britain, Smythes (a snobbish variant of Smith) really are more high achieving than Smiths.

    I don't know if Psmith actually exists or whether P.G. Wodehouse made it up.

    Yeah, that’s probably statistically inevitable simply on account of how common it is (most common surname in Israel by a significant margin).

    Non-Cohen and Levi surnames, though?

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  14. Clyde says:

    How about Cohen and Levy?

    https://www.fedsdatacenter.com/federal-pay-rates/index.php?y=2016&n=cohen&l=&a=&o=

    Cohen and Levy are the two most common surnames among Jews in the United States (Miller is third, as mentioned above). Another specifically Jewish surname is Israel, which is much less common. Jewish thought often divides Jews into three groups: Kohein, Levy and Israel.
    Judaism 101: Jewish Names
    http://www.jewfaq.org/jnames.htm

    btw – 21 Timberlakes working for The Feds – https://www.fedsdatacenter.com/federal-pay-rates/index.php?y=2016&n=TIMBERLAKE&l=&a=&o=

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  15. guest says:
    @jesse helms think-alike
    Cohen is a name that has a hebrew meaning unlike some of the german yiddish jewish names:

    Cohen is a Hebrew name (כהן) which literally means "priest" (mostly of the Jewish religion). It's also a common Jewish surname which represents an ancient biblical priestly heritage.
     

    from babynamewizrd.com

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples. The number of present day Smiths cannot correspond to the percentage of actual working blacksmiths in the population at the time surnames were adopted. (how many blacksmiths does a society need?) It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.

    Similarly the name Fletcher meaning arrow maker while uncommon is still less rare than one would think. How many full time arrow makers (arrowsmiths?) can there have been?

    The intersection of linguistics and actual multi-layered meaning of words and names is a fascinating topic.

    For example the word safe for a strong box is a seemingly mundane word until you realize that having a safe to store your valuables makes you feel "safe" connecting the two meanings of the word.

    My surname is a place-name, and I am taken to understand ultimately derives from “shelf” in Old English (though I’m not English) and “enclosure.” Which means I don’t know what.

    Does it signify high, low, or inbetweeny status? I dunno. If the name were distinguished, I’d probably have heard more about my co-namers. As it is, I’m only familiar with a couple of celebrities with my name. Neither of whom are very accomplished, though one is hot. Or at least used to be.

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    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    That would be where their house was. In relation to the administrative center (drunk cleric in a hut).

    Up on an escarpment, where they'd cleared out a plot (being remarkably wet and temperate, England was always infested with constantly-encroaching trees, until some bugger invented the iron/steel furnace, and sheep). Also they'd be Saxons, or "Danes" (i.e. weekings), or their ignoble descendants. Not Welsh, Scots, Irish or Flemings.
    Backbone of England, and don't you forget it.
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  16. Jamie_NYC says:

    Didn’t slaves in the US adopt the family names of their masters? That may skew the statistics…

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    • Replies: @Dmitry
    This is the same in Russia. Most people (serfs/peasants) took the surnames of their former owners, or alternatively place-names. As recently as first half of the 19th century most people (peasants) in Russian Empire did not have or need a surname.
    , @Jeff Albertson
    What do Washington, Jefferson, Jackson and Lincoln have in common?

    The last white guys with those names.
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  17. bomag says:
    @guest
    "One might call this a 'privilege' factor"

    One might also call it "strawberry popsicle squeeze farts," but why?


    I'm fairly certain a Lothrop Stoddard would take surname data as evidence of strong germ-plasm (or however he's put it) associated with the more privileged surnames.

    On the other hand, your Current-Year citizen would figure it's unfair advantage engendered by a socially unjust environment.

    strong germ-plasm… socially unjust environment

    Blasé indifference is not a good argument.

    It helps to notice that people rise and fall with some independence of the environment.

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  18. @Steve Sailer
    E.g., there were two reporters named Shapiro, T. Rees Shapiro of the Washington Post and Jeffrey Epstein Shapiro of the Washington Examiner, who played admirable roles in exposing the Haven Monahan hoax.

    On the other hand, there don't appear to have been any world famous Shapiros. That's probably just luck.

    Could also be that prominence (as you put it) is negatively correlated with fame.

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  19. @jesse helms think-alike
    Cohen is a name that has a hebrew meaning unlike some of the german yiddish jewish names:

    Cohen is a Hebrew name (כהן) which literally means "priest" (mostly of the Jewish religion). It's also a common Jewish surname which represents an ancient biblical priestly heritage.
     

    from babynamewizrd.com

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples. The number of present day Smiths cannot correspond to the percentage of actual working blacksmiths in the population at the time surnames were adopted. (how many blacksmiths does a society need?) It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.

    Similarly the name Fletcher meaning arrow maker while uncommon is still less rare than one would think. How many full time arrow makers (arrowsmiths?) can there have been?

    The intersection of linguistics and actual multi-layered meaning of words and names is a fascinating topic.

    For example the word safe for a strong box is a seemingly mundane word until you realize that having a safe to store your valuables makes you feel "safe" connecting the two meanings of the word.

    how many blacksmiths does a society need?

    Don’t forget silversmiths and goldsmiths.

    It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.

    Hephaestus was married to Aphrodite, after all. I’m sure Roissy would have plenty to read into that.

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    • Replies: @Logan
    Tinsmith, locksmith, coppersmith, pewtersmith, gunsmith...
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    Blacksmithing in England and the US was traditionally represented in as a virile trade (on the contrary, tailoring was represented as unmanly in tunes like "The Devil Among The Tailors" (like 'cat among the pigeons') and songs like I'll Go And List For A Sailor). You certainly needed (or developed) strong arms.

    "Under a spreading chestnut tree
    The village smithy stands;
    The smith, a mighty man is he,
    With large and sinewy hands;
    And the muscles of his brawny arms
    Are strong as iron bands.

    His hair is crisp, and black, and long,
    His face is like the tan;
    His brow is wet with honest sweat,
    He earns what'er he can,
    And looks the whole world in the face,
    For he owes not any man. "
     

    , @dearieme
    And coppersmiths.
    , @Travis
    my Great Great Grandfather was a Blacksmith in Pennsylvania, but his surname was McCormick...he was Scots-Irish and was a veteran of the civil war.....his wife was a direct descendant of John Morton (a signer of the Declaration)
    , @syonredux

    Hephaestus was married to Aphrodite, after all. I’m sure Roissy would have plenty to read into that.
     
    Of course, she was cheating on him with Ares....

    But the minstrel struck the chords in prelude to his sweet lay and sang of the love of Ares and Aphrodite of the fair crown, how first they lay together in the house of Hephaestus secretly; and Ares gave her many gifts, and shamed the bed [270] of the lord Hephaestus.
     
    Odyssey, Book 8

    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0136%3Abook%3D8%3Acard%3D250
    , @Ivy
    And Smith's cousins, the Wrights: Ark, Mill, Ship.
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  20. @jesse helms think-alike
    Cohen is a name that has a hebrew meaning unlike some of the german yiddish jewish names:

    Cohen is a Hebrew name (כהן) which literally means "priest" (mostly of the Jewish religion). It's also a common Jewish surname which represents an ancient biblical priestly heritage.
     

    from babynamewizrd.com

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples. The number of present day Smiths cannot correspond to the percentage of actual working blacksmiths in the population at the time surnames were adopted. (how many blacksmiths does a society need?) It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.

    Similarly the name Fletcher meaning arrow maker while uncommon is still less rare than one would think. How many full time arrow makers (arrowsmiths?) can there have been?

    The intersection of linguistics and actual multi-layered meaning of words and names is a fascinating topic.

    For example the word safe for a strong box is a seemingly mundane word until you realize that having a safe to store your valuables makes you feel "safe" connecting the two meanings of the word.

    How many full time arrow makers (arrowsmiths?) can there have been?

    Considering that their descendants probably got into the gun business, quite a few. By that time names had already been set, so they wouldn’t have become Smiths despite being in effect gunsmiths.

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  21. AndrewR says:
    @guest
    "One might call this a 'privilege' factor"

    One might also call it "strawberry popsicle squeeze farts," but why?


    I'm fairly certain a Lothrop Stoddard would take surname data as evidence of strong germ-plasm (or however he's put it) associated with the more privileged surnames.

    On the other hand, your Current-Year citizen would figure it's unfair advantage engendered by a socially unjust environment.

    Not mutually exclusive things. On average, compared to poorer people, wealthier people likely tend to have genes and customs more conducive to generating and keeping wealth. That doesn’t necessarily mean that many wealthier people don’t benefit from certain practices and systems that give them an unfair advantage. The fact that George W. Bush (who was average, at best, in both intelligence and ambition, and who never would have risen in social class had he been born poor) was elected president [...twice...] proves beyond any reasonable doubt that “unfair advantage engendered by a socially unjust environment” is a major factor in the success of many people. The same of course could be said about Barack Obama (via different injustices) and probably Donald Trump too.

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    • Agree: Dmitry
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Say what you will about Donald John Trump, he's a billionaire, and he only had a few million handed to him. He's done alright for a shaygets in a very Jewish millieu. He has drive and ambition and balls. Neither Obama nor GWB can say that.
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  22. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Smiths are extremely common, but tend not to be world famous. Adam Smith is likely the most famous Smith ever.

    I’m going to sound like my surname is Smith (it’s not), but is that really fair?

    Smiths were 1.01% of the US in 1990 and 0.83% in 2010. Adam Smith is probably in the top-100 of famous people from the Anglo-Saxon world–so it’s about expected value.

    There are currently five Smiths in the House of Representatives and one in the Senate. So 6/535.

    I would guess that, statistically, by law of large numbers, every common name will be slightly below average. They’re basically average, but get pushed down slightly by those relatively rare surnames that outperform.

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  23. UK reader says:
    @Steve Sailer
    E.g., there were two reporters named Shapiro, T. Rees Shapiro of the Washington Post and Jeffrey Epstein Shapiro of the Washington Examiner, who played admirable roles in exposing the Haven Monahan hoax.

    On the other hand, there don't appear to have been any world famous Shapiros. That's probably just luck.

    Helen Shapiro, the singer, may not have been world famous but she was very famous in the UK in the early 1960s. She came from a poor family but I would guess that they are rich now.

    Are there any black surnames? I thought Toney was black but then a quick image search showed some white faces.

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    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    Washington, Jefferson, Jackson are almost exclusively black surnames in the U.S. As are Montgomery and Williams, but a little less so.
    , @Jonathan Mason

    Helen Shapiro, the singer, may not have been world famous but she was very famous in the UK in the early 1960s.
     
    Ah, yes, I remember her well!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuQlpFnlIBE
    , @Ghost of Bull Moose
    Washington and Jefferson? Maybe that's just tv and movie characters, meant to remind whites why blacks are here in the first place.
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  24. AndrewR says:
    @guest
    "One might call this a 'privilege' factor"

    One might also call it "strawberry popsicle squeeze farts," but why?


    I'm fairly certain a Lothrop Stoddard would take surname data as evidence of strong germ-plasm (or however he's put it) associated with the more privileged surnames.

    On the other hand, your Current-Year citizen would figure it's unfair advantage engendered by a socially unjust environment.

    Upon further reflection, I am forced to conclude that socialists and communists probably tend to be extremely stupid. I can’t think of any explanation besides sheer stupidity for why they haven’t made Paris Hilton their poster girl for everything wrong with our current socioeconomic system, because she basically does embody everything wrong with our society. In an ideal world, given her personal attributes, she would earn her bread through cleaning toilets. Unfortunately, she is very wealthy and famous, and this is 100% due to a combination of being born into a wealthy family and fitting a socially desirable (among a significant portion of the population who inexplicably seek to emulate her) archetype of the attractive, slutty, airhead, blonde mean girl. Any reasonable person would agree that she is the epitome of highly dysfunctional societal priorities and toxic socioeconomic incentive structures, yet leftists are silent about her.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Paris is as good a business woman as her ancestor who built the hotel chain.
    Her parents were actually poor relations.

    She made multi millions marketing herself as a dumb blonde and she retired years ago.

    She started out with that reality show with Nicole Ritchie. They traveled the country working at minimum wage jobs and meeting ordinary people It was the best reality show ever.

    The emphasis was on the places they went and the people they met. It was a tour of America Instead of sneering at flyover country and the deplorables, her show admired the deplorables and flyover country.

    All she needed was some seed money from her family for a good PR agency and she was off.

    Who knows what she’s really like?
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    "Any reasonable person would agree that she (Paris Hilton) is the epitome of highly dysfunctional societal priorities and toxic socioeconomic incentive structures, yet leftists are silent about her."

    She's female, therefore has what in the UK are now officially called "protected characteristics".

    A male equivalent, a wealthy blond frat-boy type who screwed his way though the world, would probably be in jail or on the run like Haven Monahan.

    On the other hand, as far as I know, Tucker Max is still at liberty.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-new-dating-game/article/416267

    , @James Kabala
    She is kind of forgotten now since the Kardashians came along (which somehow is about a decade ago by now - they have managed to maintain fame for a long time).
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  25. scrivener3 says: • Website
    @Yan Shen
    Not bad, average Shen federal salary comes out to $115,771.72, despite Shen not being a particularly common Chinese surname! Unfortunately though, I doubt this represents any kind of privilege. As I've repeatedly been arguing, Asian Americans are actually the most openly discriminated against group in American society today.

    I suspect more interesting than just looking at salary is also looking at what fields these people actually work in. Which groups of people in this country are disproportionately engaged in value creating STEM activities?

    I think that’s part of the point: all advantages are not due to unearned privilege, If Smiths make more than Jeffersons it might be earned not a sign of unfairness.

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    • Replies: @guest
    "all advantages are not due to unearned privilege"

    They want you to think "unearned privilege" when you hear "privilege," which is a dirty trick. Much like with "racism,"--which combines the desire to throw all members of a despised race into gas chambers with innocuously noticing people of a certain color are better at basketball--it's a slippery term. You can't pin them down.
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  26. @jesse helms think-alike
    Cohen is a name that has a hebrew meaning unlike some of the german yiddish jewish names:

    Cohen is a Hebrew name (כהן) which literally means "priest" (mostly of the Jewish religion). It's also a common Jewish surname which represents an ancient biblical priestly heritage.
     

    from babynamewizrd.com

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples. The number of present day Smiths cannot correspond to the percentage of actual working blacksmiths in the population at the time surnames were adopted. (how many blacksmiths does a society need?) It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.

    Similarly the name Fletcher meaning arrow maker while uncommon is still less rare than one would think. How many full time arrow makers (arrowsmiths?) can there have been?

    The intersection of linguistics and actual multi-layered meaning of words and names is a fascinating topic.

    For example the word safe for a strong box is a seemingly mundane word until you realize that having a safe to store your valuables makes you feel "safe" connecting the two meanings of the word.

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples. The number of present day Smiths cannot correspond to the percentage of actual working blacksmiths in the population at the time surnames were adopted. (how many blacksmiths does a society need?) It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.

    At Wikipedia you can find some other reasons for the large number of present-day Smiths. For example, the name was often given to African-American slaves who retained it after emancipation and it was sometimes adopted by native Americans.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Smith just means maker. So anyone who made things could have the name Smith.
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  27. Flip says:

    Senator Percy was also the father-in-law of John D. Rockefeller IV. Now that’s a prestigious name.

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  28. Helen Shapiro was sort of a British Brenda Lee in the early sixties:

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  29. Nico says:

    Shapiro, Pritzker…

    Am I the only one with a SERIOUS case of Hebrew fatigue?!

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  30. Percy, such as the Hotspur in Shakespeare’s Henry IV Part 1, is a Norman surname, like Jane Austen’s Mr. Darcy. The Normans conquered Britain in 1066 and people with French Norman surnames remain over-represented in the betters jobs in Britain today. Some of that is likely due to name-changing, and I’m not sure how true that is in the U.S.

    But it remains a prestigious name. For example, when I moved to Chicago in 1982, Charles Percy was the Republican senator. He was mentioned as Presidential Timber from 1968 to 1988.

    The Normans did not conquer Britain in 1066, it was just England.
    But you have raised an important HBD point about the Percy family, though maybe you were unaware. The best way I can illustrate the point is to contrast them with the Campbell family. The head of the clan is the Duke of Argyll. From the C14th onwards, they expanded rapidly. Some of the clan were blood relative of the Duke, but as they expanded they absorbed clansfolk from other clans, who adopted the name Campbell. By the C17th the latter formed the overwhelming majority of the clan. By this time Campbell was a very common name. Add to that, there are Irish Campbells who have no connection to Scots Campbells whatsoever. Rather like the Scots and Irish Kennedys ( Kennedy is a much more common name in Scotland )
    By contrast, the Percy have always been a small Northumbrian clan. The head of the clan was and is the Duke of Northumberland. The Campbells basically tried to take over most of Argyll ( not good if you were a MacDonald ) whereas the Percys remained in the Alnwick-Warkworth area and left the other clans ( Heron, Collingwood, Cuthbert etc ) in place. I suspect that nearly all those born with the Percy surname are related to each other from the Middle Ages onwards. They are not numerous, but I have never met a poor one. They all seem to have affluent lifestyles. Indeed, one of them was even the Councillor of the Ward I lived in. As well as that, they all seemed to have similar discreet, well-mannered characteristics – not what you would expect from relatives of Harry Hotspur.

    The differences between” Mass Clans” and small, apparently related clans are often quite sharp. The former ( eg Campbells, MacDonalds etc ) have expanded by agglomeration. Comparatively few are related to each other or the main branch of the clan. They are a mixed bag of humanity.
    Small clans seem often to be formed of related persons. This is particularly noticeable with small, aristocratic clans like the Percys. Another example are the Mars, Marrs or Erskines. All three surnames are associated with the Earldom of Mar ( the World’s oldest title ). Nearly all persons of these surnames are surmised to be related. As I said about the Percys, I’ve never met a poor one. And that goes for the ones who changed their names as well – like The Smiths’ Johnny Marr, who changed his name from ( low class Irish ) Maher to ( aristocratic Scots ) Marr. Instant Surname Privilege !

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    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Highly interesting, thank you.
    I agree about the Percys - I too have never met a poor one.
    I do happen to know, on the other, that a family of lower class Erskines live, not only in Scotland, but actually in Alloa, the site of the historic seat of the Earls of Mar.
    Servants who took the name, or perhaps an illegitimate branch? In any case, they are always courteously treated by the head of the family.
    , @Coemgen, @anonymouslee
    I sort of knew Erskine Bowles (was poised to be a Big Deal at one time) from a country club.

    always thought that was an odd name but more fool I
    , @Expletive Deleted
    Percy? Their less-well-provided-for (ox-bothering pedestrian scum) kin claim the names of, among others I believe, Reed (of Redesdale and Otterburn, opposed in perpetuity to the names of Elliot (double L, double T, whatever), and Armstrong (of the Moon), never mind Halls (not particularly dangerous, unlike the aforementioned two). And possibly Charlton (greatest living Englishman).

    I remain to be corrected, basically because the northern barbarians are of little consequence, and much of a muchness.

    Try Gascoigne or, I dunno, Musgrave, Dacre or Clifford, they're of a similar vintage and locality, and the descents should map out similarly (relentless gentry interbreeding). Interesting experiment. Do brits fuck about carelessly with their surnames like foreigners do? Inalienable surnames only became a thing apres les Normands, mainly for tax reasons. Only yDNA will provide the answers, I suspect.
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  31. prosa123 says: • Website

    One peculiarity is the popularity of Miller among people of British descent. In Medieval Britain millers were rather unpopular, with a reputation for price-gouging farmers, so one would imagine that few of them used that surname.
    A likely explanation is that most Millers are Anglicized from Muller, grain millers not having been as unpopular in the German-speaking world.

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  32. @Steve Sailer
    Smiths are extremely common, but tend not to be world famous. Adam Smith is likely the most famous Smith ever.

    I beg to differ!! I believe the most famous would be Anna Nicole Smith!

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  33. songbird says:

    All this brings to mind the rather bizarre (at least to a Westerner) high frequency of certain Asian names, in their country of origin like Nguyen in Vietnam, or Kim in Korea, or to a lesser extent, Wang in China. All countries with a history of Confucianism and communism.

    It may be just a coincidence based the single character writing system, but it seems to me that having fewer unique names would help with any ostensibly social-minded philosophy. People may also be a tiny bit more willing to go along with Communism, if they don’t have a uniquely bourgeois name.

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    • Replies: @Nico
    Oriental countries do seem to have inherited a rather limited range of surnames compared with most Western countries, though it should be remembered that in Wales for example something like 30 surnames account for 90% of the population.
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  34. Logan says:
    @Desiderius

    how many blacksmiths does a society need?
     
    Don't forget silversmiths and goldsmiths.

    It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.
     
    Hephaestus was married to Aphrodite, after all. I'm sure Roissy would have plenty to read into that.

    Tinsmith, locksmith, coppersmith, pewtersmith, gunsmith…

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  35. Logan says:
    @jesse helms think-alike
    Cohen is a name that has a hebrew meaning unlike some of the german yiddish jewish names:

    Cohen is a Hebrew name (כהן) which literally means "priest" (mostly of the Jewish religion). It's also a common Jewish surname which represents an ancient biblical priestly heritage.
     

    from babynamewizrd.com

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples. The number of present day Smiths cannot correspond to the percentage of actual working blacksmiths in the population at the time surnames were adopted. (how many blacksmiths does a society need?) It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.

    Similarly the name Fletcher meaning arrow maker while uncommon is still less rare than one would think. How many full time arrow makers (arrowsmiths?) can there have been?

    The intersection of linguistics and actual multi-layered meaning of words and names is a fascinating topic.

    For example the word safe for a strong box is a seemingly mundane word until you realize that having a safe to store your valuables makes you feel "safe" connecting the two meanings of the word.

    How many full time arrow makers (arrowsmiths?) can there have been?

    More than you might think. During a battle of the Hundred Years War the English army might shoot off ten thousand plus arrows each minute.

    An arrow takes a LOT more time to make than a cartridge, especially when made by hand.

    Also, it is probable most arrows of the time were made by farmers during the winter slow season. Not necessarily full-time fletchers at all.

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    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    Stringers, Fletchers, Bowman (-men). There's a quiverfull of those names, and would take some digging, due to dialect changes and the forgetting of trades like the geezers who supplied the (horn) nocks and tips, or the bluebell-root glue for the flights, or the quiver-makers themselves (poss. a side-guild of sadlers, or scabbard-makers).
    Just be assured that it was a major trade, on a level with masons or carters. And if it weren't for them, c'est certain que je vous addresserez-ez-ez en francais (or whatever their monkey-gibber is, correctly).
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  36. slumber_j says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Smiths are extremely common, but tend not to be world famous. Adam Smith is likely the most famous Smith ever.

    I dunno: Mark E. Smith of The Fall, Anna Nicole Smith, The Smiths, uh… Aerosmith,…

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  37. The Percy’s were a wealthy family where I grew up, the most prominent being the novelist Walker Percy.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    His uncle William was probably more representative of that branch.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Alexander_Percy
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  38. David says:

    I have a privileged sounding name (it has a walk-on part in the life of Shakespeare) but my people take a $7,000 hit compared to the $83,000 Federal Govt average.

    Won’t a lot of ethic sounding names be concentrated on the coasts where salaries are higher, so that old stock folks with assets look relatively less privileged?

    When I map the office locations of federal employees with my last name, they are conspicuously fly-over types.

    But come to think of it, there’s a lot of brawlers with my name when I search for it.

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  39. slumber_j says:

    My surname is pretty uncommon and sounds fancy to people, although a certain number of its bearers are black. For example, I suspect that the federal employee who has my last name and the first name Theodoshia may well not be White Like Me.

    Anyway, the database also shows 110 federal employees who have my surname, which I find shockingly high. In a half-century of consciousness, I’ve never randomly run across a single person with my surname, even with one of its several variant spellings. But I’ve met several Shapiros, who are represented in that database at the same rate.

    I’m way too lazy to average these people’s salaries, by the way: maybe I should be working for the federal government.

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    • Replies: @guest
    "which I find shockingly high"

    There are a LOT of federal employees.
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  40. Smiths are extremely common, but tend not to be world famous.

    There are many variations on Smith, including the German version Schmidt, Russian Kuznetsov, French Lebrun, Spanish Herrera, Italian Ferrero.

    A German variant would be Eisenhower, a hewer of iron. A Messerschmitt would be a maker of knives.

    For example, Hamilton is the best educated common surname in Britain and it’s the name of the most expensive ticket Broadway musical of all time in the U.S.

    But is Huntington, a fairly rare but overachieving name in the U.S., as upscale in Britain?

    At the most simple level Hamilton is a town in Scotland and Huntingdon is a town in England. Education in Scotland is often believed to be better than in England.

    However it is much more complicated that that. The Earls of Arran in Scotland have the family name Hamilton, and title of Earls of Huntingdon was created several times, but appears not to be associated with the town, which is best known as the birthplace of Oliver Cromwell and Samuel Pepys.

    So people who have the names might be associated with the aristocratic families, or just named after the towns.

    Further complicating factor is that Hamilton was the name of a hamlet in England, and the local family established itself in Scotland then founded a place named after the family. So this is rather like the pattern of arrival in the US giving places names that reminded them of home.

    Huntingdon,near Cambridge, is not very far from Boston, which I believe has a place in New England named after it that has a suburb named Cambridge, even though there is no River Cam in Boston, Mass.

    Hamilton in Scotland has a soccer team with the marvelous tongue twister name Hamilton Academicals.

    https://www.hamiltonacciesfc.co.uk/

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    • Replies: @Ripple Earthdevil
    Kowalski in Polish and related Slavic names are also variations on Smith.
    , @Ripple Earthdevil
    There is no Huntingdon MA, not near Cambridge or anywhere else. There's a Huntington MA which is in the western part of the state past Springfield/Northampton.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    The earls of Huntington are distinguished, and their surname is Hastings, which also tends to be the same. The surname Huntington on the other hand is of no particular distinction in England.
    Hamilton is the most distinguished aristocratic name in Scotland - two dukedoms, two earldoms, a viscountcy, two baronies, three baronetcies, and four families of the landed gentry; all this without counting the extinct titles.
    I would wager then that something like 90% of the Oxford and Cambridge graduates bearing this name were scions of one or another of these families.
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  41. a reader says:
    @Steve Sailer
    E.g., there were two reporters named Shapiro, T. Rees Shapiro of the Washington Post and Jeffrey Epstein Shapiro of the Washington Examiner, who played admirable roles in exposing the Haven Monahan hoax.

    On the other hand, there don't appear to have been any world famous Shapiros. That's probably just luck.

    Miss Shapiro is not well known either.

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  42. a reader says:
    @Steve Sailer
    E.g., there were two reporters named Shapiro, T. Rees Shapiro of the Washington Post and Jeffrey Epstein Shapiro of the Washington Examiner, who played admirable roles in exposing the Haven Monahan hoax.

    On the other hand, there don't appear to have been any world famous Shapiros. That's probably just luck.

    There are about 100 notable Shapiro’s.

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  43. Wouldn’t black people throw a monkey (no pun intended) wrench into this analysis. American blacks often took the names of their plantation owners or even founding fathers. (Indeed, I mentioned to my daughter the other day that I’d never met a white person with the last name of Washington or Jefferson, but I’ve seen plenty of blacks with those surnames.)

    Surnames that have a lot of overlap between blacks and whites would skew the result toward less surname privilege since blacks tend to earn less. This would be particularly true on a list of government employee surnames since blacks are dramatically overrepresented in government workers.

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    • Replies: @Lurker
    In the US, has there been white flight from those surnames?
    , @syonredux

    Wouldn’t black people throw a monkey (no pun intended) wrench into this analysis. American blacks often took the names of their plantation owners or even founding fathers. (Indeed, I mentioned to my daughter the other day that I’d never met a white person with the last name of Washington or Jefferson, but I’ve seen plenty of blacks with those surnames.)
     
    Yeah. Take, say, Washington. In the normal course of affairs, it would probably have a fairly upscale valence, but, due to its extreme popularity among Blacks ( a very downmarket demographic), it has prolish connotations in the USA and possibly beyond. If memory serves, HL Mencken has an anecdote about a German hotel being worried that a guest with the Washington surname might be Black....
    , @Alden
    Aren’t tens of thousands of blacks named Pinckney after the owner of one of the biggest plantations in S Carolina.
    , @Kevin in Ohio
    Would there be a way to control for that? Most demographic data has a racial component. Though, anecdotally, ive never met a white Washington, or Jefferson, for that matter.

    Though, it’s interesting. My (white) wife’s maiden name was Davis. If she wore something with her surname on it she often received odd looks or even comments that, “Her daddy must be black.” Funny how it works. Most Davises I had met up to that point were white - squarely middle class white.
    , @gregor
    Washington was the first name I tried. Over 1,000 results. Interestingly, the top paid Shapiros are all physicians while for the top paid Washingtons you see only a couple physicians and a fair amount of jobs like “Miscellaneous Administration.” There also appear to be about 400 Washingtons working for the VA.
    , @ScarletNumber

    I’d never met a white person with the last name of Washington or Jefferson, but I’ve seen plenty of blacks with those surnames
     
    Back when he was funny, Bill Simmons compiled a list he called the Reggie Cleveland All-Stars. This was a list of white athletes whose names made them sound black.
    , @G Pinfold
    If it's a reasonably common name, just throw in a white first name (Brian, Clive, Nigel, Alan) to ethnic-cleanse the sample
    , @ScarletNumber
    Here is one from when jokebooks were popular:

    What did George Washington and Thomas Jefferson have in common?
    They were the last white people to have these names.
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  44. eD says:

    The Percys have been Dukes or Earls of Northumberland since 1403 , and were and are some of the biggest landholders in England. They still make lists of the top twenty wealthy British families. One of them was a British army commander in the American War of Independence.

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  45. prosa123 says: • Website

    This database illustrates the fact that while working for the federal government has its advantages, one big downside is that your salary is a matter of public record. That’s something you’d never see in the private sector.

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    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    All New Jersey public employees, whether local, county, or state, have their salaries as part of the public record.
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  46. @Steve Sailer
    Cohen is among the more common Ashkenazi surnames, but it's not particularly high-achieving by Jewish standards.

    I wonder if the Coen Brothers are descendants of some guy who changed the spelling of his name for social climbing reasons, the way my surname descends from some guy named Seiler (ropemaker) who became mayor of a small town in Switzerland and changed the spelling of his name to Sailer for snobbish purposes.

    In Britain, Smythes (a snobbish variant of Smith) really are more high achieving than Smiths.

    I don't know if Psmith actually exists or whether P.G. Wodehouse made it up.

    He made it up. Riffing on Greek words pronounced with silent P in English: pseudo, pneumonia, psoriasis.

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    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
    What about the silent P in "swimming"? (!!!!) (Rim-shot.)
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  47. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Steve,
    did you ever square dance? Maybe your kids learned square dancing in school. Like many other Americans of your vintage, you may be part of an unwitting experiment.

    https://qz.com/1153516/americas-wholesome-square-dancing-tradition-is-a-tool-of-white-supremacy/

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    So that's why rap music sounds like square dance calling.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DeTR8n7eTU

    , @guest
    They were still teaching me square dancing after the Long March Through the Institutions. The Boomer Generation certainly didn't enjoy folk music because of its whiteness. Rather, they like it in spite of its whiteness. Or at least that part of it which is white in origin. Funnily enough, the Fords of the world made a lot of mistakes, and attributed un-white music to whites.

    Henry Ford, by the way, was influential and did promote Americana for partially racist reasons. He was also never part of the Establishment, though his foundation was. The Establishment made fun of him, including in a rather embarrassing visit to the witness stand. If educrats were pushing square dancing instruction in the 70s and 80s, rest assured it was NOT because of Ford.

    Why did they, then? Well, our school system feeds the fire under the melting pot. They love synthetic culture, including propping up dead culture. Persistent popular dance forms don't need to be taught in school. You can go somewhere to learn the fox-trot, Charleston, swing, and other forms associated with jazz. You can also go learn to waltz and polka, two white dance forms that don't get taught in school.

    Square dancing and line dancing may be taught in barns and honky-tonks in certain parts of the country. I wouldn't know. But most people will never encounter them in real life. Not counting that one line routine people do at wedding receptions. So there's a purpose to teaching them in school.

    I'm one of those weirdos who doesn't necessarily hold malign origins* against something, if it's valuable. Which may or may not be the case with square dancing. But the simple fact that it was promoted due to racism doesn't have to be no thang. So was birth control, among other things in which good Current Year citizens believe.

    By the way, I like a lot of jazz, but I'm not crazy about the style of dance associated with it. I watch Jane Austen costume dramas sometimes and wonder, "Why don't we do that instead of gyrating like the possessed?"

    *Not that preserving white culture for the sake of whiteness is a bad thing.
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  48. @Steve Sailer
    Cohen is among the more common Ashkenazi surnames, but it's not particularly high-achieving by Jewish standards.

    I wonder if the Coen Brothers are descendants of some guy who changed the spelling of his name for social climbing reasons, the way my surname descends from some guy named Seiler (ropemaker) who became mayor of a small town in Switzerland and changed the spelling of his name to Sailer for snobbish purposes.

    In Britain, Smythes (a snobbish variant of Smith) really are more high achieving than Smiths.

    I don't know if Psmith actually exists or whether P.G. Wodehouse made it up.

    In junior high (in Boston) there were twins with the surname B’Smith, written exactly like that.

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  49. @Steve Sailer
    E.g., there were two reporters named Shapiro, T. Rees Shapiro of the Washington Post and Jeffrey Epstein Shapiro of the Washington Examiner, who played admirable roles in exposing the Haven Monahan hoax.

    On the other hand, there don't appear to have been any world famous Shapiros. That's probably just luck.

    Not a bad voice for age 14.

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  50. kihowi says:

    Sort of related: if you speak a bunch of languages, you’ll realize that the tendency for poor people to give their children whacky names is universal. Must have something to do with magical thinking and the belief in the power of a sound.

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    • Replies: @International Jew
    Haven't noticed that (though now I'll be on the lookout) but I see black girls with comically misspelled French names all the time.
    , @slumber_j
    Yeah: Hispano-Americans are completely out of control in that regard. Just check out the names among random Major League players and compare them to real Spanish Christian names. I can think of no Saint Yasiel, Yadier, Asdrubal, Kendrys or even--if we're gonna get all technical about it--Jhonny.
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  51. Regarding Huntingdon, I should perhaps have added that in 1601 a man called Munday wrote a play about Robin Hood in which it is claimed that Hood was the Earl of Huntingdon.

    This was probably an attempt to give a social upgrade to the renowned socialist who robbed from the rich and gave to the poor, a quaint notion that predates the modern tendency to reverse the process.

    The current Earl of Huntingdon is William Edward Robin Hood Hastings-Bass, 17th Earl of Huntingdon, who came from a family of wealthy racehorse trainers and trained horses for the Queen. Since his retirement he has taken part in charity work, driving a truckload of supplies to Bosnia and taking part in bike ride across Borneo and a safari in the Australian outback.

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    • Replies: @Crawfurdmuir

    Regarding Huntingdon, I should perhaps have added that in 1601 a man called Munday wrote a play about Robin Hood in which it is claimed that Hood was the Earl of Huntingdon.

    This was probably an attempt to give a social upgrade to the renowned socialist who robbed from the rich and gave to the poor, a quaint notion that predates the modern tendency to reverse the process.
     
    If you recall the legend, what Robin did was not to "rob from the rich and give to the poor," but to rob the ill-gotten loot of the usurper Prince John's tax collectors, and give it back to the people from whom they had exacted it.

    The claim that Robin was Earl of Huntingdon, or received the title from Richard the Lionhearted upon the latter's return from his crusade, is of course false. The earldom was held during all of this period by Henry, brother of William the Lion of Scotland. It had been one of the Scottish royal family's possessions in England intermittently throughout the twelfth century.

    There is often a bit of genuine but garbled history buried in legends. Thus, for example, the Siegfried and Brunnhilde of the Nibelungenlied probably reflect the Merovingian Sigebert and his wife, the Visigothic princess Brunehaut. If we are to look for some historical events in the background to the Robin Hood legend, they might have arisen after the accession of John as King of England and in the period of rebellion before Magna Carta was forced upon the King by his barons.

    In 1209, John compelled William the Lion, King of Scots and ci-devant Earl of Huntingdon, elder brother of the then incumbent Earl, to give two of his daughters in marriage to English barons. One of these barons was Robert de Ros, Baron of Helmsley. De Ros later joined the rebellion against John and was one of the Magna Carta sureties.

    Robin was a common nickname for Robert - could the rebellious Robert de Ros, married to a Scottish royal who was niece of the Earl of Huntingdon, be the origin of the legend that Robin Hood was Earl of Huntingdon?
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  52. biz says:
    @Steve Sailer
    E.g., there were two reporters named Shapiro, T. Rees Shapiro of the Washington Post and Jeffrey Epstein Shapiro of the Washington Examiner, who played admirable roles in exposing the Haven Monahan hoax.

    On the other hand, there don't appear to have been any world famous Shapiros. That's probably just luck.

    On the other hand, there don’t appear to have been any world famous Shapiros

    Robert Shapiro (OJ’s lawyer)? Ben Shapiro?

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  53. The Scottish Hamiltons are the highest ranking peers in Scotland, and are, to the very best of my knowledge, the only noble family of British aborigine origin. The male line carries the I2a “Isles” haplogroup, interesting to me only because I am also of the same haplogroup. Most nobles in Britain, and indeed all over Europe, are one form of Indo-European line or another.
    “Haplogroup I is the oldest major haplogroup in Europe and in all probability the only one that originated there (apart from very minor haplogroups like C1a2 and deep subclades of other haplogroups).” From Eupedia.com.
    I2a was the haplogroup of the first modern humans to inhabit the British Isles. They were overwhelmed near to the point of extinction by the Indo-Europeans.

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    • Replies: @Beckow
    Hamiltons might be descended from a lonely aborigine elite member who joined the invading Indo-Europeans (we could also say he betrayed his native people).

    Male 'I' groups in Europe are the indigenous population. They are most numerous in places where European native population found shelter during Ice Age. Then they expanded back up north. Europe looked suddenly very attractive after the Ice Age ended, and the 'I' natives were over-run by waves of Indo-Europeans, Anatolians, farmers and sheep-herders from Middle East, etc...

    Interestingly enough the 'I' DNA groups is closer to the Middle-Eastern 'J' DNA groups than to the Indo-European 'R1a-b' groups.

    Anther oddity is the large percentage of royal-aristocrat male DNA that has tested as a group 'G'. (E.g. Capetians, Bavarian royals, bones of dead warriors, Otzi was also a 'G', etc...). G is a rare group in Europe (or world-wide), but it has a strong cluster in the Caucasus mountains, where Ossetians are majority G. People with male G DNA are heavily associated with spread of highland pastoral lifestyle, and with spread of metallurgy. Possibly some combination of bronze/iron weapons, horses, and high mobility made them into an ancient source of many high-born families. Too bad we don't have any surnames that would be associated with them (or Capetians?).

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  54. @Steve Sailer
    E.g., there were two reporters named Shapiro, T. Rees Shapiro of the Washington Post and Jeffrey Epstein Shapiro of the Washington Examiner, who played admirable roles in exposing the Haven Monahan hoax.

    On the other hand, there don't appear to have been any world famous Shapiros. That's probably just luck.

    I think the most famous Shapiro is Robert.

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    • Replies: @Sgt. Joe Friday
    Shapiro is also the name of the family that owned Familian Pipe & Supply from 1962 to 1987. Familian was a well-known plumbing wholesaler in California, Nevada, and Hawaii.
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  55. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Never really noticed many ‘Huntington’s’ in the UK.

    Probably derives from ‘Huntingdon’ the name of a town and former (very small) county in East Anglia.

    Apparently, although virtually all Hamiltons are of Scottish provenance, the name is actually of English origin. It is, (or so it is said), apparently derived from a suburb of midland city of Leicester of the same name.
    Some noble or another took it to Scotland back in the day.
    Surprisingly, the very Scottish surname ‘Graham’ is also of English derivation, being derived from the town of Grantham, Lincolnshire, which happens, of course, to be Maggie Thatcher’s hometown.

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    • Agree: James Kabala
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  56. @Desiderius

    how many blacksmiths does a society need?
     
    Don't forget silversmiths and goldsmiths.

    It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.
     
    Hephaestus was married to Aphrodite, after all. I'm sure Roissy would have plenty to read into that.

    Blacksmithing in England and the US was traditionally represented in as a virile trade (on the contrary, tailoring was represented as unmanly in tunes like “The Devil Among The Tailors” (like ‘cat among the pigeons’) and songs like I’ll Go And List For A Sailor). You certainly needed (or developed) strong arms.

    “Under a spreading chestnut tree
    The village smithy stands;
    The smith, a mighty man is he,
    With large and sinewy hands;
    And the muscles of his brawny arms
    Are strong as iron bands.

    His hair is crisp, and black, and long,
    His face is like the tan;
    His brow is wet with honest sweat,
    He earns what’er he can,
    And looks the whole world in the face,
    For he owes not any man. “

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    • Replies: @Cortes
    And yet, in ancient times the smith was represented as lame, like Hephaestus. Some accounts (like the entry in the Oxford Classical Dictionary) attribute the depiction as realistic since lame individuals would be useless in soldiering or most agricultural tasks but could assist the community in the smithy. Another reason put forward (?by Robert Graves?) was that smiths were deliberately hobbled to prevent them marketing their invaluable skills elsewhere.

    In his “Vanished Kingdoms” essay on the Welsh Kingdom of Strathclyde, Norman Davies makes a good case for the name Campbell (“broken or twisted mouth” in Scots Gaelic) as evidence that the family were holdouts speaking the old tongue when the population around them had switched to Gaelic with the influx of Irish.

    More generally, the book “Names” by Basil Cottle is outstanding.

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  57. dearieme says:
    @Desiderius

    how many blacksmiths does a society need?
     
    Don't forget silversmiths and goldsmiths.

    It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.
     
    Hephaestus was married to Aphrodite, after all. I'm sure Roissy would have plenty to read into that.

    And coppersmiths.

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  58. @prosa123
    This database illustrates the fact that while working for the federal government has its advantages, one big downside is that your salary is a matter of public record. That's something you'd never see in the private sector.

    All New Jersey public employees, whether local, county, or state, have their salaries as part of the public record.

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  59. unit472 says:

    It would be hard to think of more famous surnames than those of American mafioso or Italian artists but I am not aware if Italian names bear any relation to social status/origins. Any Italians know?

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Descalzzo and it’s variants means shoeless an ancestor so poor they went barefoot.
    , @James Kabala
    I suspect that Italian noble names such as Medici, Sforza, Orisini, Borghese are very rare in the United States. I actually went to college with someone named Medici, but never heard of any of the others here.
    , @Peter Akuleyev
    I am not aware if Italian names bear any relation to social status/origins. Any Italians know?

    As a very general rule Italian names that end in -i tend to be northern, and higher social status than names that end in -o,-a, -e which are southern. So Rossi, Bianchi, Ferrari are generally higher achieving than Russo, Ferraro or De Rosa.

    Also - Agnelli, Prodi, Visconti, Rossellini and Renzi are better names than Bonanno, Colombo, Gambino, Genovese und Lucchese.
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  60. David says:

    Interesting that half the privilege of Shapiros working for the feds is attributable to the 12% of them that are medical officers in HHS or the VA. The latter pays way more, by the way, but I’d guess that neither offers relatively prestigious gigs as far as medicine goes.

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    • Replies: @Couch Scientist
    The 12% is staggering. A more nuanced formula could probably factor things like that in.

    For what it's worth, my guess is that the doctors Shapiro have thought very hard about and maximized their career choices. Considering things like loan forgiveness and other benefits, these gigs are probably pretty good deals for them even if not particularly prestigious.

    But that's really an aside. This is just a comparison of federal employees and Shapiros in the federal government are clearly outperforming the average fed.
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  61. Travis says:
    @Desiderius

    how many blacksmiths does a society need?
     
    Don't forget silversmiths and goldsmiths.

    It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.
     
    Hephaestus was married to Aphrodite, after all. I'm sure Roissy would have plenty to read into that.

    my Great Great Grandfather was a Blacksmith in Pennsylvania, but his surname was McCormick…he was Scots-Irish and was a veteran of the civil war…..his wife was a direct descendant of John Morton (a signer of the Declaration)

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    his surname was McCormick
     
    http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/more-cowbell-with-will-ferrell-on-snl-video-saturday-night-live-nbc/3506001?snl=1
    , @PV van der Byl
    McCormick or McCormack (Irish equivalent) is a common patronymic in Scotland and Ireland meaning son of Charles. The Scandinavian equivalent is Carlson (Sweden)/Carlsen (Denmark, Norway).
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  62. Okie says:

    The problem with surname analysis is marriage, remember Margret the grocer’s daughter was a Roberts and only married into the thatcher name, though I believe denis was a pretty high up in the chem co she worked at after getting her degree. And Roberts is in be of those names that are largely class independant , although higher up than my surname based on a nickname of a community n man indicate a lower class origini

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    • Replies: @International Jew
    So true: an obvious, but very important, mathematical fact! I guess the family name effect as to rely, heavily, on the right kind of assortative mating.
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  63. I have one read that in Germany still up today people called “Schmidt” (in english Blacksmith) are on average heavier than people called Schneider (tailor).

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  64. Interesting. A small quibble: since the average federal Sailer salary is about $17K below the overall average, -$17K should be termed the “privilege offset,” not “privilege factor” (a “factor” being a number by which something is multiplied). Alternatively, since $17K is about 20% of $83K, you could assign to Sailer a privilege factor of 0.80.

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  65. rec1man says:

    I put in my surname, which is common among Tamil Brahmins, got 9 hits

    Average = $158 K
    Min = 99 k
    Max = 206 k

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    • Replies: @anon
    Ran an experiment to see if there is any Brahmin privilege; seems to be none, though they are most numerous. In fact Vyshya (Businessmen) have privilege.

    Sharma: 133K (count 171), US + 50K
    Varma/Verma: 133K (65), US + 50K
    Gupta: 212K (129), US + 129K
    Das*: 130K (77), US + 47K
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  66. Polearm says:

    I ran it for the surname Kelly and got 1084 results. Seven of those had a $0 salary, which I excluded. Average Kelly salary is $87,482.56.

    For what it’s worth, 5 Kellys work for the Tennessee Valley Authority, but no Shapiros do.

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  67. “For example, Hamilton is the best educated common surname in Britain and it’s the name of the most expensive ticket Broadway musical of all time in the U.S.”

    And it’s also the name of Judge Reinhold’s character in Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

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    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    Umm, way to bury the lede. Jennifer Jason Leigh played Stacey Hamilton.
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  68. @David
    Interesting that half the privilege of Shapiros working for the feds is attributable to the 12% of them that are medical officers in HHS or the VA. The latter pays way more, by the way, but I'd guess that neither offers relatively prestigious gigs as far as medicine goes.

    The 12% is staggering. A more nuanced formula could probably factor things like that in.

    For what it’s worth, my guess is that the doctors Shapiro have thought very hard about and maximized their career choices. Considering things like loan forgiveness and other benefits, these gigs are probably pretty good deals for them even if not particularly prestigious.

    But that’s really an aside. This is just a comparison of federal employees and Shapiros in the federal government are clearly outperforming the average fed.

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  69. @UK reader
    Helen Shapiro, the singer, may not have been world famous but she was very famous in the UK in the early 1960s. She came from a poor family but I would guess that they are rich now.

    Are there any black surnames? I thought Toney was black but then a quick image search showed some white faces.

    Washington, Jefferson, Jackson are almost exclusively black surnames in the U.S. As are Montgomery and Williams, but a little less so.

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  70. Choudhury does pretty well thanks to the doctors employed at the VA. It means landlord\head of community etc. and is used by both Hindus and Muslims in the Indian sub-continent.

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  71. Lurker says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Cohen is among the more common Ashkenazi surnames, but it's not particularly high-achieving by Jewish standards.

    I wonder if the Coen Brothers are descendants of some guy who changed the spelling of his name for social climbing reasons, the way my surname descends from some guy named Seiler (ropemaker) who became mayor of a small town in Switzerland and changed the spelling of his name to Sailer for snobbish purposes.

    In Britain, Smythes (a snobbish variant of Smith) really are more high achieving than Smiths.

    I don't know if Psmith actually exists or whether P.G. Wodehouse made it up.

    Isn’t that ‘Smythe’ rather than ‘Smythes’?

    Maybe there is a tendency for upscale Smiths to become Smythes. But downwardly mobile Smythes might feel the urge to change to Smith to fit in? This would bed in the surname privilege over time.

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    • Replies: @englishmike

    Isn’t that ‘Smythe’ rather than ‘Smythes’?
     
    No. Steve was using the plural: "Smythes...really are"...

    In Britain, Smythes (a snobbish variant of Smith) really are more high achieving than Smiths.
     
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  72. @ScarletNumber
    I think the most famous Shapiro is Robert.

    Shapiro is also the name of the family that owned Familian Pipe & Supply from 1962 to 1987. Familian was a well-known plumbing wholesaler in California, Nevada, and Hawaii.

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    • Replies: @Flip
    Bob Shapiro was the CEO of Monsanto.
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  73. Lurker says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Wouldn't black people throw a monkey (no pun intended) wrench into this analysis. American blacks often took the names of their plantation owners or even founding fathers. (Indeed, I mentioned to my daughter the other day that I'd never met a white person with the last name of Washington or Jefferson, but I've seen plenty of blacks with those surnames.)

    Surnames that have a lot of overlap between blacks and whites would skew the result toward less surname privilege since blacks tend to earn less. This would be particularly true on a list of government employee surnames since blacks are dramatically overrepresented in government workers.

    In the US, has there been white flight from those surnames?

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  74. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Cohen is among the more common Ashkenazi surnames, but it's not particularly high-achieving by Jewish standards.

    I wonder if the Coen Brothers are descendants of some guy who changed the spelling of his name for social climbing reasons, the way my surname descends from some guy named Seiler (ropemaker) who became mayor of a small town in Switzerland and changed the spelling of his name to Sailer for snobbish purposes.

    In Britain, Smythes (a snobbish variant of Smith) really are more high achieving than Smiths.

    I don't know if Psmith actually exists or whether P.G. Wodehouse made it up.

    I have a basic, working knowledge of German but admittedly didn’t know that the word for “rope” is “seil” (pr. “zile”). So… “Der Seiler” would indeed translate to “ropemaker”.

    Which proves an old adage to be true–you DO learn something new every day.

    Tschuss!!

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Der Seiler” would indeed translate to “ropemaker”
     
    The English surname is Roper, though English mountaineers do sometimes use the technique known as abseiling that involves the use of a rope.
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  75. @yaqub the mad scientist
    The Percy's were a wealthy family where I grew up, the most prominent being the novelist Walker Percy.

    His uncle William was probably more representative of that branch.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Alexander_Percy

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    • Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist
    My great uncle roomed with him at Sewanee. Lanterns on the Levee is a good book.
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  76. @Travis
    my Great Great Grandfather was a Blacksmith in Pennsylvania, but his surname was McCormick...he was Scots-Irish and was a veteran of the civil war.....his wife was a direct descendant of John Morton (a signer of the Declaration)
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  77. You can do a similar thing with contributors to presidential candidates. I think it works out that Jews provide 60% of the funding for democrats for instance.

    I can’t find the info for 2016, but the idea is to search for surnames – Levy, Smith, Sanchez etc. Then see how much they’ve contributed in total, for each party. Then search database for how many of the population has the surname to work out roughly what ethnic group controls the party. Jews dominate, Whites are middle ranking, and Hispanics don’t give much at all. Black are hard to separate, because of the similar surname to Whites.

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  78. @Okie
    The problem with surname analysis is marriage, remember Margret the grocer’s daughter was a Roberts and only married into the thatcher name, though I believe denis was a pretty high up in the chem co she worked at after getting her degree. And Roberts is in be of those names that are largely class independant , although higher up than my surname based on a nickname of a community n man indicate a lower class origini

    So true: an obvious, but very important, mathematical fact! I guess the family name effect as to rely, heavily, on the right kind of assortative mating.

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  79. snorlax says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Cohen is among the more common Ashkenazi surnames, but it's not particularly high-achieving by Jewish standards.

    I wonder if the Coen Brothers are descendants of some guy who changed the spelling of his name for social climbing reasons, the way my surname descends from some guy named Seiler (ropemaker) who became mayor of a small town in Switzerland and changed the spelling of his name to Sailer for snobbish purposes.

    In Britain, Smythes (a snobbish variant of Smith) really are more high achieving than Smiths.

    I don't know if Psmith actually exists or whether P.G. Wodehouse made it up.

    “Cohen” and variants denote membership in ancient Judaism’s priestly caste (similar to Brahmins), who (historically and in Orthodox Judaism) are also outright forbidden to marry gentiles, converts or half-Jews, so if it isn’t a particularly prestigious surname it would seem to contradict both the thesis of this post and HBD explanations for Ashkenazi achievement.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    “Cohen” and variants denote membership in ancient Judaism’s priestly caste (similar to Brahmins), who (historically and in Orthodox Judaism) are also outright forbidden to marry gentiles, converts or half-Jews, so if it isn’t a particularly prestigious surname it would seem to contradict both the thesis of this post and HBD explanations for Ashkenazi achievement.
     
    Or maybe the priestly caste wasn't very high-achieving.....
    , @Dmitry
    Cohen is found in both European and Middle Eastern populations. But it seems to be more common in Middle Eastern origin families in Israel than in European origin ones. Economic achievement is affected more by the country of origin from which different populations immigrated, than by who has more prestigious surnames within those different populations.

    Amongst the Jews - I would guess a positive correlation with those with the most specifically German surnames and income, as these ('the Yekkes', as German Jews are called in Israel) are the historical demographic which was most successfully assimilated to secular life within Europe, prior to emigration. In Israel, German surname families like the Wertheimer family and the Strauss family are very dominant. I'd guess surnames like 'Oppenheimer' will have a strong correlation with income.

    , @AnotherDad

    ... so if it isn’t a particularly prestigious surname it would seem to contradict both the thesis of this post and HBD explanations for Ashkenazi achievement.
     
    Not at all. Literacy--that in the initial screen/cull to startup Ashkenazi, literacy at the recite the Torah level would be a selection factor giving you a good IQ at launch--has been proposed by lots of people including me. (JackD suggested even this might not be the case--you didn't really have to be literate to do the necessary ritual recitation.)

    However, grinding through the centuries what's really going to be selective is economic performance. Do you want to marry your really hot/healthy/fertile daughter to the rabbi's boy, or the son of the successfully banker or grain trader? All else even close to equal, my daughter's going with B.

    It's actually the economic benefit of IQ that will drive selection--better survival of children, and ergo better mates to have children with.

    The Jewish community can through monetary support and bestowing social status drive up the relative standing of the rabbi and appeal of the young rabbis as marriage partners. But it's hard for it to be at the very top in a community that is doing so well in intellectually demanding professions. And then the real breakout of the Jewish community in the last couple hundred years was when they realized the goyim had actually shot by them in intellectual development while they were treading water in their little closed backwater. The folks/families leading the charge to engage with European intellectual developments, were not the rabbinate.
    , @Bill
    Isn't the HBD explanation for Ashkenazi achievement that 1) there was a founding event during which the Ashkenazim became 50/50 Semites and northern Europeans and 2) then they were bred for intelligence for 1000 years? The story is that the smart genes came from the northern Europeans (or maybe from hybrid vigor) and then were selected for. Palestinian Jews aren't particularly bright. So, walling off a sub-population from further admixture seems not especially likely to be an IQ-enhancing thing. Also, it seems like the effects would be very small since the in-migrating genes only have to wait a generation or two to migrate into the Cohens and since in-migrating European genes were not much of a thing post-founding-event anyway. So, seems consistent to me.
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  80. @Desiderius
    His uncle William was probably more representative of that branch.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Alexander_Percy

    My great uncle roomed with him at Sewanee. Lanterns on the Levee is a good book.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Lanterns on the Levee
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swhEa8vuP6U

    with him at Sewanee

     

    That was an elite worth the appelation, though I don't suppose they were much tested...
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  81. syonredux says:
    @Desiderius

    how many blacksmiths does a society need?
     
    Don't forget silversmiths and goldsmiths.

    It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.
     
    Hephaestus was married to Aphrodite, after all. I'm sure Roissy would have plenty to read into that.

    Hephaestus was married to Aphrodite, after all. I’m sure Roissy would have plenty to read into that.

    Of course, she was cheating on him with Ares….

    But the minstrel struck the chords in prelude to his sweet lay and sang of the love of Ares and Aphrodite of the fair crown, how first they lay together in the house of Hephaestus secretly; and Ares gave her many gifts, and shamed the bed [270] of the lord Hephaestus.

    Odyssey, Book 8

    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0136%3Abook%3D8%3Acard%3D250

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    • Replies: @Light Roast

    Of course, she was cheating on him with Ares….
     
    To put it in modern pickup artist terms - Ares was an alpha male badboy (can't get more badboy than God of War), while Hephaestus was a beta male provider with a steady job as a blacksmith.
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  82. Beckow says:
    @RebelWriter
    The Scottish Hamiltons are the highest ranking peers in Scotland, and are, to the very best of my knowledge, the only noble family of British aborigine origin. The male line carries the I2a "Isles" haplogroup, interesting to me only because I am also of the same haplogroup. Most nobles in Britain, and indeed all over Europe, are one form of Indo-European line or another.
    "Haplogroup I is the oldest major haplogroup in Europe and in all probability the only one that originated there (apart from very minor haplogroups like C1a2 and deep subclades of other haplogroups)." From Eupedia.com.
    I2a was the haplogroup of the first modern humans to inhabit the British Isles. They were overwhelmed near to the point of extinction by the Indo-Europeans.

    Hamiltons might be descended from a lonely aborigine elite member who joined the invading Indo-Europeans (we could also say he betrayed his native people).

    Male ‘I’ groups in Europe are the indigenous population. They are most numerous in places where European native population found shelter during Ice Age. Then they expanded back up north. Europe looked suddenly very attractive after the Ice Age ended, and the ‘I’ natives were over-run by waves of Indo-Europeans, Anatolians, farmers and sheep-herders from Middle East, etc…

    Interestingly enough the ‘I’ DNA groups is closer to the Middle-Eastern ‘J’ DNA groups than to the Indo-European ‘R1a-b’ groups.

    Anther oddity is the large percentage of royal-aristocrat male DNA that has tested as a group ‘G’. (E.g. Capetians, Bavarian royals, bones of dead warriors, Otzi was also a ‘G’, etc…). G is a rare group in Europe (or world-wide), but it has a strong cluster in the Caucasus mountains, where Ossetians are majority G. People with male G DNA are heavily associated with spread of highland pastoral lifestyle, and with spread of metallurgy. Possibly some combination of bronze/iron weapons, horses, and high mobility made them into an ancient source of many high-born families. Too bad we don’t have any surnames that would be associated with them (or Capetians?).

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  83. Dmitry says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Cohen is among the more common Ashkenazi surnames, but it's not particularly high-achieving by Jewish standards.

    I wonder if the Coen Brothers are descendants of some guy who changed the spelling of his name for social climbing reasons, the way my surname descends from some guy named Seiler (ropemaker) who became mayor of a small town in Switzerland and changed the spelling of his name to Sailer for snobbish purposes.

    In Britain, Smythes (a snobbish variant of Smith) really are more high achieving than Smiths.

    I don't know if Psmith actually exists or whether P.G. Wodehouse made it up.

    ‘Cohen’ and ‘Levi’ are specially protected names in Israel.

    It’s illegal to change your name to ‘Cohen’ or ‘Levi’ in Israel. (There may be a couple of other legally protected names in Israel, but those are the two I’m aware of).

    That’s why there’s the joke that so many Russians in Israel change their name to ‘Lavi’. Because they all wanted to change their name to ‘Levi’ when they arrive in Israel – and then find out that it’s not allowed to, so they end up with ‘Lavi’.

    —————-

    As for high-achieving or low-achieving. Names like ‘Cohen’ and ‘Levi’ will not be different from average – as they are found both equally in Middle Eastern and European populations (probably even more common with Middle Eastern demographics).

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  84. Alden says:
    @unit472
    It would be hard to think of more famous surnames than those of American mafioso or Italian artists but I am not aware if Italian names bear any relation to social status/origins. Any Italians know?

    Descalzzo and it’s variants means shoeless an ancestor so poor they went barefoot.

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  85. syonredux says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Wouldn't black people throw a monkey (no pun intended) wrench into this analysis. American blacks often took the names of their plantation owners or even founding fathers. (Indeed, I mentioned to my daughter the other day that I'd never met a white person with the last name of Washington or Jefferson, but I've seen plenty of blacks with those surnames.)

    Surnames that have a lot of overlap between blacks and whites would skew the result toward less surname privilege since blacks tend to earn less. This would be particularly true on a list of government employee surnames since blacks are dramatically overrepresented in government workers.

    Wouldn’t black people throw a monkey (no pun intended) wrench into this analysis. American blacks often took the names of their plantation owners or even founding fathers. (Indeed, I mentioned to my daughter the other day that I’d never met a white person with the last name of Washington or Jefferson, but I’ve seen plenty of blacks with those surnames.)

    Yeah. Take, say, Washington. In the normal course of affairs, it would probably have a fairly upscale valence, but, due to its extreme popularity among Blacks ( a very downmarket demographic), it has prolish connotations in the USA and possibly beyond. If memory serves, HL Mencken has an anecdote about a German hotel being worried that a guest with the Washington surname might be Black….

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    • Replies: @J1234

    Yeah. Take, say, Washington. In the normal course of affairs, it would probably have a fairly upscale valence, but, due to its extreme popularity among Blacks ( a very downmarket demographic), it has prolish connotations....
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctq7YETTcZw

    I loved this routine. It's weird, though...Cheech and Chong sure got a historical pass from the MSM on the skits they used to do, like this one and Blind Melon Chittlins and Up His Nose it Goes. Warner Bros. cartoons of the 1940's and 50's and old movies with black maids and train porters get trotted out regularly and nailed for "racism", but Cheech and Chong go largely unscathed.


    Surname Privilege Factor
     
    Last week Steve told us that he wasn't related to a guy with a very similar last name who had murdered someone. Now another criminal with a similar last name was just shot by a cop. I suppose he's going to say he's not related to him, either.

    http://www.1011now.com/content/news/Man-taken-to-hospital-after-shots-fired-short-pursuit-with-LPD-468195293.html

    I wonder how many Shapiros get arrested compared to everyone else?

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  86. Alden says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Wouldn't black people throw a monkey (no pun intended) wrench into this analysis. American blacks often took the names of their plantation owners or even founding fathers. (Indeed, I mentioned to my daughter the other day that I'd never met a white person with the last name of Washington or Jefferson, but I've seen plenty of blacks with those surnames.)

    Surnames that have a lot of overlap between blacks and whites would skew the result toward less surname privilege since blacks tend to earn less. This would be particularly true on a list of government employee surnames since blacks are dramatically overrepresented in government workers.

    Aren’t tens of thousands of blacks named Pinckney after the owner of one of the biggest plantations in S Carolina.

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  87. syonredux says:
    @snorlax
    "Cohen" and variants denote membership in ancient Judaism's priestly caste (similar to Brahmins), who (historically and in Orthodox Judaism) are also outright forbidden to marry gentiles, converts or half-Jews, so if it isn't a particularly prestigious surname it would seem to contradict both the thesis of this post and HBD explanations for Ashkenazi achievement.

    “Cohen” and variants denote membership in ancient Judaism’s priestly caste (similar to Brahmins), who (historically and in Orthodox Judaism) are also outright forbidden to marry gentiles, converts or half-Jews, so if it isn’t a particularly prestigious surname it would seem to contradict both the thesis of this post and HBD explanations for Ashkenazi achievement.

    Or maybe the priestly caste wasn’t very high-achieving…..

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    • Replies: @International Jew

    Or maybe the priestly caste wasn’t very high-achieving…..
     
    Hard to say. But considering that the priesthood ended around 70AD, the Cohen genes have had a very long time to work their way through the population.
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  88. If you had a literate upscale job like clerk (Clark or Palmer), you are likely to be a little upscale today.

    The Jewish equivalent of Clark would have to be Soffer/Sofer/Sopher/Sofaer. The sample turns out to be small, unfortunately: one Soffer in the $180,000s, and three Sophers down in the dumps.

    But look up “Rabin” (“rabbi”). There are about 55 Rabins, Rabinowitz’s (“son of the rabbi”) etc, and the average salary looks pretty high, just eyeballing it.

    Melamed/Melomed/Malamud/Lehrer/Lehrman/Lehrmann/Lerman (teacher) would be a good one to look up, for anyone willing to do the work.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    I thought Palmer was someone who had been in a pilgrimage?
    , @International Jew
    Speaking of rabbis, it's worth looking up the Greek equivalent: these would be all the names beginning with "Papa" ("priest") and ending with "ou" or "os" (Greek case endings, don't ask...) There'll be something (possibly long) in between, typically a given name. Hence Papadopoulos, Papademetriou, Papandreou. Some of them will actually be Romanian, but that's ok because Greek-surnamed Romanians were often aristocrats. For anyone willing to do the work...

    Too bad the smartest Roman Catholics were sworn to celibacy.

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  89. @UK reader
    Helen Shapiro, the singer, may not have been world famous but she was very famous in the UK in the early 1960s. She came from a poor family but I would guess that they are rich now.

    Are there any black surnames? I thought Toney was black but then a quick image search showed some white faces.

    Helen Shapiro, the singer, may not have been world famous but she was very famous in the UK in the early 1960s.

    Ah, yes, I remember her well!

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  90. There are about a dozen Trumps there, and their average is lower middle class at best. This being 2016 data, Donald wasn’t yet there to pull up the average.

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  91. Surname spelling gets complicated:

    Pewitt, Preuett, Preuit, Preuitt, Prewet, Prewett, Prewiett, Prewit, Prewitt, Priuett, Priuitt, Prouett, Prouitt, Prueite, Prueitt, Pruet, Pruett, Pruette, Pruewitt, Pruiett, Pruit, Pruitt, Pruitte

    They came to America through Virginia, mostly.

    Tennessee has the largest concentration of people with the surname Pewitt.

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  92. Dmitry says:
    @snorlax
    "Cohen" and variants denote membership in ancient Judaism's priestly caste (similar to Brahmins), who (historically and in Orthodox Judaism) are also outright forbidden to marry gentiles, converts or half-Jews, so if it isn't a particularly prestigious surname it would seem to contradict both the thesis of this post and HBD explanations for Ashkenazi achievement.

    Cohen is found in both European and Middle Eastern populations. But it seems to be more common in Middle Eastern origin families in Israel than in European origin ones. Economic achievement is affected more by the country of origin from which different populations immigrated, than by who has more prestigious surnames within those different populations.

    Amongst the Jews – I would guess a positive correlation with those with the most specifically German surnames and income, as these (‘the Yekkes’, as German Jews are called in Israel) are the historical demographic which was most successfully assimilated to secular life within Europe, prior to emigration. In Israel, German surname families like the Wertheimer family and the Strauss family are very dominant. I’d guess surnames like ‘Oppenheimer’ will have a strong correlation with income.

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    • Replies: @IHTG

    But it seems to be more common in Middle Eastern origin families in Israel than in European origin ones.
     
    A lot of the European ones are called Katz rather than Cohen. And then there's also Kagan/Kogan.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    All Wertheimers are related, as are all Oppenheimers. But these are fairly recent families, which took their name from their towns of origin. Frankfurter too, although from such a big place many families of the name may well have issued forth.
    I am reminded of the following wonderful story, too good to be true I fear:
    Emperor Franz Josef was a very punctilious man, and never shirked his duty. At the end of a long day, he was about to take off his uniform when a courtier entered the room with an embarrassed look: might His Imperial and Royal Highness spare a few moments for His Serene Highness the Prince of Loewenstein - Wertheim - Rosenberg?
    The Emperor's hearing was not what it had been: "Doch, doch", he murmured, "escort the three old Jews in!"
    , @snorlax
    I don't have the exact numbers, but my well-educated guess is American Jews are north of 95% Ashkenazi, with the remainder mostly nouveau riche, gold-chain-wearing recent Persian and Israeli immigrants. It's safe to assume any American named Cohen, Cohn, Kohn et al is 100% Ashkenazi, or at least 0% other-kinds-of-Jews.
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  93. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Wouldn't black people throw a monkey (no pun intended) wrench into this analysis. American blacks often took the names of their plantation owners or even founding fathers. (Indeed, I mentioned to my daughter the other day that I'd never met a white person with the last name of Washington or Jefferson, but I've seen plenty of blacks with those surnames.)

    Surnames that have a lot of overlap between blacks and whites would skew the result toward less surname privilege since blacks tend to earn less. This would be particularly true on a list of government employee surnames since blacks are dramatically overrepresented in government workers.

    Would there be a way to control for that? Most demographic data has a racial component. Though, anecdotally, ive never met a white Washington, or Jefferson, for that matter.

    Though, it’s interesting. My (white) wife’s maiden name was Davis. If she wore something with her surname on it she often received odd looks or even comments that, “Her daddy must be black.” Funny how it works. Most Davises I had met up to that point were white – squarely middle class white.

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    • Replies: @Ripple Earthdevil
    Davis is a fairly common name among Jews, which makes sense as it is derived from David.
    , @prosa123
    "Though, anecdotally, ive never met a white Washington, or Jefferson, for that matter."

    Stan Laurel's real name was Arthur Stanley Jefferson.
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  94. Alden says:
    @englishmike

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples. The number of present day Smiths cannot correspond to the percentage of actual working blacksmiths in the population at the time surnames were adopted. (how many blacksmiths does a society need?) It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.
     
    At Wikipedia you can find some other reasons for the large number of present-day Smiths. For example, the name was often given to African-American slaves who retained it after emancipation and it was sometimes adopted by native Americans.

    Smith just means maker. So anyone who made things could have the name Smith.

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    • Replies: @englishmike

    Smith just means maker. So anyone who made things could have the name Smith.
     
    That was my understanding too, until I checked Wikipedia, where it is claimed to mean someone who makes things with metal (confirmed by my 1970 Oxford Dictionary).

    Of course, these things can become updated. Did you know that one reputable dictionary (it might be the Oxford) now accepts that literally can mean metaphorically because it is a common usage. When I heard that, I was literally gobsmacked.
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  95. Φ says: • Website

    An apparent limitation to the database is that it doesn’t include Department of Defense civil servants, a significant fraction of the total. For instance, searching “Wright Patterson AFB” yields a single employee of the Small Business Administration, not a list of the 20K+ civilians employed there.

    I have no idea whether this exclusion makes the list more or less representative of the “surname privilege” for the nation as a whole. But a look through the Air Force phone directory shows that the names at least are slightly better balanced: 34 Shapiros (7 civil servants, 8 contractors, 8 officers, 10 enlisted, 1 undetermined) vs 5 Sailers (1 civilian, 1 contractor, 1 officer, 2 enlisted).

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  96. @UK reader
    Helen Shapiro, the singer, may not have been world famous but she was very famous in the UK in the early 1960s. She came from a poor family but I would guess that they are rich now.

    Are there any black surnames? I thought Toney was black but then a quick image search showed some white faces.

    Washington and Jefferson? Maybe that’s just tv and movie characters, meant to remind whites why blacks are here in the first place.

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  97. Alden says:
    @AndrewR
    Upon further reflection, I am forced to conclude that socialists and communists probably tend to be extremely stupid. I can't think of any explanation besides sheer stupidity for why they haven't made Paris Hilton their poster girl for everything wrong with our current socioeconomic system, because she basically does embody everything wrong with our society. In an ideal world, given her personal attributes, she would earn her bread through cleaning toilets. Unfortunately, she is very wealthy and famous, and this is 100% due to a combination of being born into a wealthy family and fitting a socially desirable (among a significant portion of the population who inexplicably seek to emulate her) archetype of the attractive, slutty, airhead, blonde mean girl. Any reasonable person would agree that she is the epitome of highly dysfunctional societal priorities and toxic socioeconomic incentive structures, yet leftists are silent about her.

    Paris is as good a business woman as her ancestor who built the hotel chain.
    Her parents were actually poor relations.

    She made multi millions marketing herself as a dumb blonde and she retired years ago.

    She started out with that reality show with Nicole Ritchie. They traveled the country working at minimum wage jobs and meeting ordinary people It was the best reality show ever.

    The emphasis was on the places they went and the people they met. It was a tour of America Instead of sneering at flyover country and the deplorables, her show admired the deplorables and flyover country.

    All she needed was some seed money from her family for a good PR agency and she was off.

    Who knows what she’s really like?

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  98. Alden says:
    @International Jew

    If you had a literate upscale job like clerk (Clark or Palmer), you are likely to be a little upscale today.
     
    The Jewish equivalent of Clark would have to be Soffer/Sofer/Sopher/Sofaer. The sample turns out to be small, unfortunately: one Soffer in the $180,000s, and three Sophers down in the dumps.

    But look up "Rabin" ("rabbi"). There are about 55 Rabins, Rabinowitz's ("son of the rabbi") etc, and the average salary looks pretty high, just eyeballing it.

    Melamed/Melomed/Malamud/Lehrer/Lehrman/Lehrmann/Lerman (teacher) would be a good one to look up, for anyone willing to do the work.

    I thought Palmer was someone who had been in a pilgrimage?

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  99. Helen Shapiro had the misfortune to go on tour in 1963 and be upstaged by one of her supporting acts, four lads from Liverpool. Lennon and McCartney wrote a song called “Misery” for her, but she never recorded it.

    She continued in show business for many years, playing the role of Nancy in the London stage version of Oliver! and traveling for many years as a singer with jazzman Humphrey Littleton.

    Her autobiography, published in 1993, was entitled Walking Back to Happiness, the title of her greatest hit. Just as well she did not record Misery, really!

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    Humphrey Lyttelton, not Littleton.

    I only know because I read the once-famous collection of letters between his father and Rupert Hart-Davies, back in the day.

    They were not jazz fans - more inclined to Tennyson and Shakespeare.
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  100. @kihowi
    Sort of related: if you speak a bunch of languages, you'll realize that the tendency for poor people to give their children whacky names is universal. Must have something to do with magical thinking and the belief in the power of a sound.

    Haven’t noticed that (though now I’ll be on the lookout) but I see black girls with comically misspelled French names all the time.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Recently had my hair cut by a woman named Uniqua. No kidding.
    , @Ivy
    Some names are just appropriations, like Chanel or Porsche, although not too many Portias.
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  101. Dmitry says:
    @Steve Sailer
    E.g., there were two reporters named Shapiro, T. Rees Shapiro of the Washington Post and Jeffrey Epstein Shapiro of the Washington Examiner, who played admirable roles in exposing the Haven Monahan hoax.

    On the other hand, there don't appear to have been any world famous Shapiros. That's probably just luck.

    RKM engine was proposed by the physicist/poet Boris Shapiro

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RKM_engine

    There’s well-known Israeli mathematician Ilya Shapiro

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Piatetski-Shapiro

    On Russian wikipedia there’s a huge list of famous people with the surname.

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A8%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE

    ——–

    Although the information is not useful until we know what the number of people with this surname are in the respective countries.

    Edit – 24,000 people with this surname in the United States.

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  102. @jesse helms think-alike
    Cohen is a name that has a hebrew meaning unlike some of the german yiddish jewish names:

    Cohen is a Hebrew name (כהן) which literally means "priest" (mostly of the Jewish religion). It's also a common Jewish surname which represents an ancient biblical priestly heritage.
     

    from babynamewizrd.com

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples. The number of present day Smiths cannot correspond to the percentage of actual working blacksmiths in the population at the time surnames were adopted. (how many blacksmiths does a society need?) It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.

    Similarly the name Fletcher meaning arrow maker while uncommon is still less rare than one would think. How many full time arrow makers (arrowsmiths?) can there have been?

    The intersection of linguistics and actual multi-layered meaning of words and names is a fascinating topic.

    For example the word safe for a strong box is a seemingly mundane word until you realize that having a safe to store your valuables makes you feel "safe" connecting the two meanings of the word.

    The Arabic equivalent for Smith or blacksmith is Haddad, an extremely common name in Arab countries. The vast majority are, of course, Muslim but many are also Christian and even a few are Mizrachic Jews.

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  103. J1234 says:
    @syonredux

    Wouldn’t black people throw a monkey (no pun intended) wrench into this analysis. American blacks often took the names of their plantation owners or even founding fathers. (Indeed, I mentioned to my daughter the other day that I’d never met a white person with the last name of Washington or Jefferson, but I’ve seen plenty of blacks with those surnames.)
     
    Yeah. Take, say, Washington. In the normal course of affairs, it would probably have a fairly upscale valence, but, due to its extreme popularity among Blacks ( a very downmarket demographic), it has prolish connotations in the USA and possibly beyond. If memory serves, HL Mencken has an anecdote about a German hotel being worried that a guest with the Washington surname might be Black....

    Yeah. Take, say, Washington. In the normal course of affairs, it would probably have a fairly upscale valence, but, due to its extreme popularity among Blacks ( a very downmarket demographic), it has prolish connotations….

    I loved this routine. It’s weird, though…Cheech and Chong sure got a historical pass from the MSM on the skits they used to do, like this one and Blind Melon Chittlins and Up His Nose it Goes. Warner Bros. cartoons of the 1940′s and 50′s and old movies with black maids and train porters get trotted out regularly and nailed for “racism”, but Cheech and Chong go largely unscathed.

    Surname Privilege Factor

    Last week Steve told us that he wasn’t related to a guy with a very similar last name who had murdered someone. Now another criminal with a similar last name was just shot by a cop. I suppose he’s going to say he’s not related to him, either.

    http://www.1011now.com/content/news/Man-taken-to-hospital-after-shots-fired-short-pursuit-with-LPD-468195293.html

    I wonder how many Shapiros get arrested compared to everyone else?

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  104. @Travis
    my Great Great Grandfather was a Blacksmith in Pennsylvania, but his surname was McCormick...he was Scots-Irish and was a veteran of the civil war.....his wife was a direct descendant of John Morton (a signer of the Declaration)

    McCormick or McCormack (Irish equivalent) is a common patronymic in Scotland and Ireland meaning son of Charles. The Scandinavian equivalent is Carlson (Sweden)/Carlsen (Denmark, Norway).

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  105. John Galt says:

    I have a fairly common Anglo surname (something like the 150 most common in the US), but damn 500 employed by the feds seems high. It does seem like the lower salaried names seem disproportionately black and the top ones are extra WASPy (William, Robert, John, Richard, etc),

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  106. @syonredux

    “Cohen” and variants denote membership in ancient Judaism’s priestly caste (similar to Brahmins), who (historically and in Orthodox Judaism) are also outright forbidden to marry gentiles, converts or half-Jews, so if it isn’t a particularly prestigious surname it would seem to contradict both the thesis of this post and HBD explanations for Ashkenazi achievement.
     
    Or maybe the priestly caste wasn't very high-achieving.....

    Or maybe the priestly caste wasn’t very high-achieving…..

    Hard to say. But considering that the priesthood ended around 70AD, the Cohen genes have had a very long time to work their way through the population.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Or maybe the priestly caste wasn’t very high-achieving…..

    Hard to say. But considering that the priesthood ended around 70AD, the Cohen genes have had a very long time to work their way through the population.
     
    Then there's the question of percentages.....How much Cohen DNA does the average Ashkenazi have.....Useful to remember that the key factor in high Ashkenazi IQ was the fact that they specialized in White Collar trades (estate management, tax-farming, etc)....Perhaps the certified Cohens had less get-up-and-go.....
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  107. Dmitry says:
    @Jamie_NYC
    Didn't slaves in the US adopt the family names of their masters? That may skew the statistics...

    This is the same in Russia. Most people (serfs/peasants) took the surnames of their former owners, or alternatively place-names. As recently as first half of the 19th century most people (peasants) in Russian Empire did not have or need a surname.

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  108. @International Jew

    If you had a literate upscale job like clerk (Clark or Palmer), you are likely to be a little upscale today.
     
    The Jewish equivalent of Clark would have to be Soffer/Sofer/Sopher/Sofaer. The sample turns out to be small, unfortunately: one Soffer in the $180,000s, and three Sophers down in the dumps.

    But look up "Rabin" ("rabbi"). There are about 55 Rabins, Rabinowitz's ("son of the rabbi") etc, and the average salary looks pretty high, just eyeballing it.

    Melamed/Melomed/Malamud/Lehrer/Lehrman/Lehrmann/Lerman (teacher) would be a good one to look up, for anyone willing to do the work.

    Speaking of rabbis, it’s worth looking up the Greek equivalent: these would be all the names beginning with “Papa” (“priest”) and ending with “ou” or “os” (Greek case endings, don’t ask…) There’ll be something (possibly long) in between, typically a given name. Hence Papadopoulos, Papademetriou, Papandreou. Some of them will actually be Romanian, but that’s ok because Greek-surnamed Romanians were often aristocrats. For anyone willing to do the work…

    Too bad the smartest Roman Catholics were sworn to celibacy.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Too bad the smartest Roman Catholics were sworn to celibacy.
     
    But not their brothers and sisters. The dysgenic effects of priestly celibacy have been overrated .....
    , @Peter Akuleyev
    Too bad the smartest Roman Catholics were sworn to celibacy.

    That doesn't mean they didn't have children. Celibacy may have had a dysgenic effect in countries like Ireland or Spain where they took their vows seriously but not in Italy. Chaucer, Boccaccio, and even Martin Luther seem to have all agreed that in the late Middle Ages Priests and Monks were getting their rocks off probably more often than peasants.
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  109. Buck says:

    Obviously the real privilege which stands out is federal employment. The mean and median for federal worker’s salaries are going to be pretty close as there are few incredibly highly compensated workers skewing the average higher. Compared to median U.S. households, federal workers make around 40-50% more. That number is obviously going to be much higher comparing black households and black households with a federal worker.

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  110. Ivy says:
    @Desiderius

    how many blacksmiths does a society need?
     
    Don't forget silversmiths and goldsmiths.

    It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.
     
    Hephaestus was married to Aphrodite, after all. I'm sure Roissy would have plenty to read into that.

    And Smith’s cousins, the Wrights: Ark, Mill, Ship.

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    And Smith’s cousins, the Wrights: Ark, Mill, Ship.
     
    Not to mention Cart and Wain, but Play never seems to have become a surname.
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  111. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @International Jew
    Haven't noticed that (though now I'll be on the lookout) but I see black girls with comically misspelled French names all the time.

    Recently had my hair cut by a woman named Uniqua. No kidding.

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Recently had my hair cut by a woman named Uniqua. No kidding.
     
    I know a women named Perma, unfortunately she is not a hairdresser, but she tells me her name is even uniquer than Uniqua.

    Also with reference to a lack of federal employees named Laquisha as mentioned in a post above, I believe the name is more commonly spelled either as Lakeisha or as Lakesha, and, surprisingly to me, it is also used as a white name. Actually I know a white Lakesha.

    The problem with made-up names is that if you are uneducated, you may well given your child the name of an unpleasant disease without knowing it. It has always baffled me that there is a chain of shoe stores called The Athletes Foot, apparently oblivious of the fact, or perhaps because of the fact that athlete's foot is a fungal infection that grows between the toes.

    Of course it all depends where you are. In England I once met an American man called Randolph Hornblower, who said that in the US everyone called him "Horny". It was a relief for him to arrive in Britain where people asked him if he was "Randy".
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  112. Cortes says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    Blacksmithing in England and the US was traditionally represented in as a virile trade (on the contrary, tailoring was represented as unmanly in tunes like "The Devil Among The Tailors" (like 'cat among the pigeons') and songs like I'll Go And List For A Sailor). You certainly needed (or developed) strong arms.

    "Under a spreading chestnut tree
    The village smithy stands;
    The smith, a mighty man is he,
    With large and sinewy hands;
    And the muscles of his brawny arms
    Are strong as iron bands.

    His hair is crisp, and black, and long,
    His face is like the tan;
    His brow is wet with honest sweat,
    He earns what'er he can,
    And looks the whole world in the face,
    For he owes not any man. "
     

    And yet, in ancient times the smith was represented as lame, like Hephaestus. Some accounts (like the entry in the Oxford Classical Dictionary) attribute the depiction as realistic since lame individuals would be useless in soldiering or most agricultural tasks but could assist the community in the smithy. Another reason put forward (?by Robert Graves?) was that smiths were deliberately hobbled to prevent them marketing their invaluable skills elsewhere.

    In his “Vanished Kingdoms” essay on the Welsh Kingdom of Strathclyde, Norman Davies makes a good case for the name Campbell (“broken or twisted mouth” in Scots Gaelic) as evidence that the family were holdouts speaking the old tongue when the population around them had switched to Gaelic with the influx of Irish.

    More generally, the book “Names” by Basil Cottle is outstanding.

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  113. guest says:
    @scrivener3
    I think that's part of the point: all advantages are not due to unearned privilege, If Smiths make more than Jeffersons it might be earned not a sign of unfairness.

    “all advantages are not due to unearned privilege”

    They want you to think “unearned privilege” when you hear “privilege,” which is a dirty trick. Much like with “racism,”–which combines the desire to throw all members of a despised race into gas chambers with innocuously noticing people of a certain color are better at basketball–it’s a slippery term. You can’t pin them down.

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    • Replies: @scrivener3
    Even more insidious, they are claiming if a group does better, it must be due to privilege. Sometimes underprivileged groups do better,

    It's disparate impact applied to everything in life. If anyone or group does better it is because they have an unfair advantage.
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  114. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Arguably the greatest mathematician in the second half of the 20th-century is a Shapiro, if he had taken his father’s surname.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Grothendieck

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    • Agree: Dmitry
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Very curious story. The father was born a Haredi - that turned into a some type of travelling liberal revolutionary. Cheated death in Tsarist dungeon. Chased out by Bolsheviks - eventually killed by the Nazis.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sascha_Schapiro

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  115. Ivy says:
    @International Jew
    Haven't noticed that (though now I'll be on the lookout) but I see black girls with comically misspelled French names all the time.

    Some names are just appropriations, like Chanel or Porsche, although not too many Portias.

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  116. guest says:
    @slumber_j
    My surname is pretty uncommon and sounds fancy to people, although a certain number of its bearers are black. For example, I suspect that the federal employee who has my last name and the first name Theodoshia may well not be White Like Me.

    Anyway, the database also shows 110 federal employees who have my surname, which I find shockingly high. In a half-century of consciousness, I've never randomly run across a single person with my surname, even with one of its several variant spellings. But I've met several Shapiros, who are represented in that database at the same rate.

    I'm way too lazy to average these people's salaries, by the way: maybe I should be working for the federal government.

    “which I find shockingly high”

    There are a LOT of federal employees.

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  117. syonredux says:
    @International Jew

    Or maybe the priestly caste wasn’t very high-achieving…..
     
    Hard to say. But considering that the priesthood ended around 70AD, the Cohen genes have had a very long time to work their way through the population.

    Or maybe the priestly caste wasn’t very high-achieving…..

    Hard to say. But considering that the priesthood ended around 70AD, the Cohen genes have had a very long time to work their way through the population.

    Then there’s the question of percentages…..How much Cohen DNA does the average Ashkenazi have…..Useful to remember that the key factor in high Ashkenazi IQ was the fact that they specialized in White Collar trades (estate management, tax-farming, etc)….Perhaps the certified Cohens had less get-up-and-go…..

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  118. syonredux says:
    @International Jew
    Speaking of rabbis, it's worth looking up the Greek equivalent: these would be all the names beginning with "Papa" ("priest") and ending with "ou" or "os" (Greek case endings, don't ask...) There'll be something (possibly long) in between, typically a given name. Hence Papadopoulos, Papademetriou, Papandreou. Some of them will actually be Romanian, but that's ok because Greek-surnamed Romanians were often aristocrats. For anyone willing to do the work...

    Too bad the smartest Roman Catholics were sworn to celibacy.

    Too bad the smartest Roman Catholics were sworn to celibacy.

    But not their brothers and sisters. The dysgenic effects of priestly celibacy have been overrated …..

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    • Replies: @International Jew
    Well, and then what? Relying on the siblings provides no mechanism for accumulating any genetic advantage.

    Imagine a uniform initial population of Jews. The smartest guy in the family becomes a rabbi. He marries the prettiest girl in town, or the richest: both ways, he tends to have more offspring. Now his smartest son becomes a rabbi...etc.

    Now start with a uniform population of Roman Catholics. Smartest boy in the family becomes a priest or a monk: then nothing. His siblings are nothing special (remember we started from a uniform population). Ok, maybe that smart boy's status as a priest improves his siblings' prospects on the marriage market. But they're still just average, so all that gets you is more children from average people.

    If you wanted to breed a really big dog, how far would you get if you castrated the biggest puppy of every litter?
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  119. Since one can type in first name also, I tried with D’honte, Laquisha, Deshawn.

    Nothing.

    Must be institutional racism.

    Perhaps another try: http://takimag.com/article/the_jacksun_also_rises_jim_goad/print ….

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  120. jimbo says:

    My surname has an average of 91.000, so moderate privilege on my part. It makes sense – mine is a Scottish surname. There are some distinguished people (both British and American) who have had it,
    (the name was even used in one movie as the name of a snobby prep school). But there are also a fair amount of scots-irish redneck types who have it. The distribution of job titles seems to follow this…

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  121. Nico says:
    @songbird
    All this brings to mind the rather bizarre (at least to a Westerner) high frequency of certain Asian names, in their country of origin like Nguyen in Vietnam, or Kim in Korea, or to a lesser extent, Wang in China. All countries with a history of Confucianism and communism.

    It may be just a coincidence based the single character writing system, but it seems to me that having fewer unique names would help with any ostensibly social-minded philosophy. People may also be a tiny bit more willing to go along with Communism, if they don't have a uniquely bourgeois name.

    Oriental countries do seem to have inherited a rather limited range of surnames compared with most Western countries, though it should be remembered that in Wales for example something like 30 surnames account for 90% of the population.

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    • Replies: @Corn
    “Wales for example something like 30 surnames account for 90% of the population.”

    I read once in the Welsh Guards regiments of the Royal Army mail call or musters get interesting. So many Joneses for example it’s often “Private Jones Number 2, or Private Jones Number 9” etc
    , @Jaakko Raipala
    The most likely explanation is that Asians have been running the last name system for the longest time. Probability favors the growth of the common names at the expense of the rare ones so these systems tend to end up with a few overwhelmingly common names.

    If a man has only daughters (or no children) his name doesn't get passed to the next generation. Rare names are at a constant threat of disappearing. When a name dies because a man only had female offspring, the odds are it gets replaced by a common name, in fact the most likely replacement is the most common name in the culture. The more common a name is, the more likely it is that it is the name that takes over when another dies. Eventually any such last name system "degenerates" into a couple of common names that eat all the others.

    My last name has a few dozen people and it's in two unrelated families. We didn't use inherited last names in my home region until the Russians took over 200 years ago and my home region is full of unique last names that exist only there. (Mine is the name of the estate that my great-great-great-grandfather acquired; it was standard for landowners to pick the names of their property.) In some other parts of Finland where inherited last names have been used for much longer there is much more domination by a couple of common names.
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  122. njguy73 says:
    @jesse helms think-alike
    Cohen is a name that has a hebrew meaning unlike some of the german yiddish jewish names:

    Cohen is a Hebrew name (כהן) which literally means "priest" (mostly of the Jewish religion). It's also a common Jewish surname which represents an ancient biblical priestly heritage.
     

    from babynamewizrd.com

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples. The number of present day Smiths cannot correspond to the percentage of actual working blacksmiths in the population at the time surnames were adopted. (how many blacksmiths does a society need?) It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.

    Similarly the name Fletcher meaning arrow maker while uncommon is still less rare than one would think. How many full time arrow makers (arrowsmiths?) can there have been?

    The intersection of linguistics and actual multi-layered meaning of words and names is a fascinating topic.

    For example the word safe for a strong box is a seemingly mundane word until you realize that having a safe to store your valuables makes you feel "safe" connecting the two meanings of the word.

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples.

    How many Smiths were originally Schmidts, Lefebvres, Ferraros, Ferreros, Smitses, Goffs, or Kovacs?

    Note: Commenter Jonathan Mason stated the same in Comment #40.

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    • Replies: @International Jew
    ...and Kowalski.

    What's Jewish for that anyway? Eisner?

    , @Anon
    I descend from Schmidts who changed to Smith upon arriving in the 1850s.
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  123. @AndrewR
    Upon further reflection, I am forced to conclude that socialists and communists probably tend to be extremely stupid. I can't think of any explanation besides sheer stupidity for why they haven't made Paris Hilton their poster girl for everything wrong with our current socioeconomic system, because she basically does embody everything wrong with our society. In an ideal world, given her personal attributes, she would earn her bread through cleaning toilets. Unfortunately, she is very wealthy and famous, and this is 100% due to a combination of being born into a wealthy family and fitting a socially desirable (among a significant portion of the population who inexplicably seek to emulate her) archetype of the attractive, slutty, airhead, blonde mean girl. Any reasonable person would agree that she is the epitome of highly dysfunctional societal priorities and toxic socioeconomic incentive structures, yet leftists are silent about her.

    “Any reasonable person would agree that she (Paris Hilton) is the epitome of highly dysfunctional societal priorities and toxic socioeconomic incentive structures, yet leftists are silent about her.”

    She’s female, therefore has what in the UK are now officially called “protected characteristics”.

    A male equivalent, a wealthy blond frat-boy type who screwed his way though the world, would probably be in jail or on the run like Haven Monahan.

    On the other hand, as far as I know, Tucker Max is still at liberty.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-new-dating-game/article/416267

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  124. Thomm says:

    I thought Kraft was always an elite name. Yet, there is a prominent WN in NorCal who manages to get arrested once a month for very sordid crimes (assault with a deadly weapon, having sex in public, shoplifting, etc.). The nature of these crimes indicates poor impulse control and zero long-term thinking.

    The two-year gap between otherwise-monthly arrests was only because he went to a different town :

    http://mugshotssantacruz.com/search/?last_name=KRAFT&first_name=KEVIN&#prof

    https://www.google.com/search?ei=l4tSWo6eCMXojwTjsJ6YCg&q=Kevin+Crawford+Kraft+arrests&oq=Kevin+Crawford+Kraft+arrests&gs_l=psy-ab.3..35i39k1l2.13686.16702.0.16825.17.12.1.0.0.0.154.939.0j8.8.0….0…1c.1.64.psy-ab..8.9.939….0.pSkp_vjpk6s

    Has the Kraft name devolved?

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  125. Thomm says:

    I wonder if Patel is one of the highest-income surnames in America at this point (again, measuring income only).

    Remember that many ultra-rich don’t have to report their full income on their 1040, as it is shielded through structures before that. So this does not capture the income of the ultra-wealthy.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    How many Patels honestly report all their income?

    I stayed at a Patel owned hotel recently where I got to talking with the swarthy owner about his hi-fi setup at home. This guy had purchased, new and at only a modest discount from retail, a setup consisting of "Stereophile Class A Recommended Components " costing more than the house he was living in. We talked about the technical issues for a minute and I brought up the cost issue, to which he responded that he bought stereo equipment with his cash income, and the house with railroad income (his facility did a lot of his business housing railcrews who go out to another location and back as soon as they have completed their rest period). He liked stereo equipment and watches because they are in the house and away from IRS eyes, and unlike cars aren't licensed and titled.

    He had no idea what I did and wasn't concerned that he was essentially sharing the fact he was skimming large amounts of cash off his business with someone who for all he knew might have been IRS, FBI or whatever.

    And really why shouldn't he do that? Does he have any real investment in the American nation? Hell no.
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  126. @Jonathan Mason

    Smiths are extremely common, but tend not to be world famous.
     
    There are many variations on Smith, including the German version Schmidt, Russian Kuznetsov, French Lebrun, Spanish Herrera, Italian Ferrero.

    A German variant would be Eisenhower, a hewer of iron. A Messerschmitt would be a maker of knives.


    For example, Hamilton is the best educated common surname in Britain and it’s the name of the most expensive ticket Broadway musical of all time in the U.S.

    But is Huntington, a fairly rare but overachieving name in the U.S., as upscale in Britain?
     

    At the most simple level Hamilton is a town in Scotland and Huntingdon is a town in England. Education in Scotland is often believed to be better than in England.

    However it is much more complicated that that. The Earls of Arran in Scotland have the family name Hamilton, and title of Earls of Huntingdon was created several times, but appears not to be associated with the town, which is best known as the birthplace of Oliver Cromwell and Samuel Pepys.

    So people who have the names might be associated with the aristocratic families, or just named after the towns.

    Further complicating factor is that Hamilton was the name of a hamlet in England, and the local family established itself in Scotland then founded a place named after the family. So this is rather like the pattern of arrival in the US giving places names that reminded them of home.

    Huntingdon,near Cambridge, is not very far from Boston, which I believe has a place in New England named after it that has a suburb named Cambridge, even though there is no River Cam in Boston, Mass.

    Hamilton in Scotland has a soccer team with the marvelous tongue twister name Hamilton Academicals.

    https://www.hamiltonacciesfc.co.uk/

    Kowalski in Polish and related Slavic names are also variations on Smith.

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  127. @Jonathan Mason

    Smiths are extremely common, but tend not to be world famous.
     
    There are many variations on Smith, including the German version Schmidt, Russian Kuznetsov, French Lebrun, Spanish Herrera, Italian Ferrero.

    A German variant would be Eisenhower, a hewer of iron. A Messerschmitt would be a maker of knives.


    For example, Hamilton is the best educated common surname in Britain and it’s the name of the most expensive ticket Broadway musical of all time in the U.S.

    But is Huntington, a fairly rare but overachieving name in the U.S., as upscale in Britain?
     

    At the most simple level Hamilton is a town in Scotland and Huntingdon is a town in England. Education in Scotland is often believed to be better than in England.

    However it is much more complicated that that. The Earls of Arran in Scotland have the family name Hamilton, and title of Earls of Huntingdon was created several times, but appears not to be associated with the town, which is best known as the birthplace of Oliver Cromwell and Samuel Pepys.

    So people who have the names might be associated with the aristocratic families, or just named after the towns.

    Further complicating factor is that Hamilton was the name of a hamlet in England, and the local family established itself in Scotland then founded a place named after the family. So this is rather like the pattern of arrival in the US giving places names that reminded them of home.

    Huntingdon,near Cambridge, is not very far from Boston, which I believe has a place in New England named after it that has a suburb named Cambridge, even though there is no River Cam in Boston, Mass.

    Hamilton in Scotland has a soccer team with the marvelous tongue twister name Hamilton Academicals.

    https://www.hamiltonacciesfc.co.uk/

    There is no Huntingdon MA, not near Cambridge or anywhere else. There’s a Huntington MA which is in the western part of the state past Springfield/Northampton.

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    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Jonathan was writing about Huntingdon, England, and being jocular about the related Bostons and Cambridges.

    There is a Hunting(t)on Avenue in Boston, MA:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huntington_Avenue
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  128. @Kevin in Ohio
    Would there be a way to control for that? Most demographic data has a racial component. Though, anecdotally, ive never met a white Washington, or Jefferson, for that matter.

    Though, it’s interesting. My (white) wife’s maiden name was Davis. If she wore something with her surname on it she often received odd looks or even comments that, “Her daddy must be black.” Funny how it works. Most Davises I had met up to that point were white - squarely middle class white.

    Davis is a fairly common name among Jews, which makes sense as it is derived from David.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Davies/Davis is also a common Welsh name.
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  129. @syonredux

    Too bad the smartest Roman Catholics were sworn to celibacy.
     
    But not their brothers and sisters. The dysgenic effects of priestly celibacy have been overrated .....

    Well, and then what? Relying on the siblings provides no mechanism for accumulating any genetic advantage.

    Imagine a uniform initial population of Jews. The smartest guy in the family becomes a rabbi. He marries the prettiest girl in town, or the richest: both ways, he tends to have more offspring. Now his smartest son becomes a rabbi…etc.

    Now start with a uniform population of Roman Catholics. Smartest boy in the family becomes a priest or a monk: then nothing. His siblings are nothing special (remember we started from a uniform population). Ok, maybe that smart boy’s status as a priest improves his siblings’ prospects on the marriage market. But they’re still just average, so all that gets you is more children from average people.

    If you wanted to breed a really big dog, how far would you get if you castrated the biggest puppy of every litter?

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Well, and then what? Relying on the siblings provides no mechanism for accumulating any genetic advantage.
     
    Elementary genetics. If I don't reproduce but both of my siblings do......

    Imagine a uniform initial population of Jews. The smartest guy in the family becomes a rabbi.
     
    Does he? Maybe the guy who becomes a rabbi is the one who likes sitting around....

    He marries the prettiest girl in town, or the richest: both ways, he tends to have more offspring. Now his smartest son becomes a rabbi…etc.

     

    My understanding is that the old idea of rabbis marrying the daughters of wealthy men is exaggerated....

    Now start with a uniform population of Roman Catholics. Smartest boy in the family becomes a priest or a monk: then nothing.
     
    Is he the smartest boy in the family? Perhaps he's just the most pious....

    Ok, maybe that smart boy’s status as a priest improves his siblings’ prospects on the marriage market. But they’re still just average,
     
    Since heredity plays a role in IQ, odds say that the siblings of a guy with an above average IQ will also have above average IQs......
    , @Crawfurdmuir

    "Now start with a uniform population of Roman Catholics. Smartest boy in the family becomes a priest or a monk: then nothing. His siblings are nothing special (remember we started from a uniform population)..."
     
    Your premise is wrong. In mediaeval times, it was not the smartest boy in the family that became a priest - it was a younger son who would not inherit the family's estates. He was, in other words, a spare rather than an heir. Priests were drawn from the "better" classes - as a rule they had to be legitimate, and free-born (so, not of the villein caste). In some places all four grandparents had to be armigerous.

    Younger sons had career options in the church, the military, and after a point, in the law. One might become a clergyman because he was a poor physical specimen and not fit to be a soldier; such was the case with Talleyrand, who was lamed in an accident at the age of four, and made a churchman (becoming bishop of Autun in 1789, just as revolution was about to break out).

    If an heir died leaving a priest next in line to titles and estates, it was not uncommon that he might be dispensed of his vows so that he might succeed to them. An example of this was Cesare Borgia, made archbishop of Valencia in 1492 and a cardinal in 1493. When his brother Giovanni died in 1497 (some say with "assistance" from his younger brother), Cesare sought release from his vows and renounced his cardinalate in 1498, to become Duke of Valentinois, gonfalonier and captain-general of the Holy Roman Church.

    Monks and nuns present a different picture. Monasteries and convents supplied the mediaeval equivalent of social welfare services, finding accommodation and work for those who could get it nowhere else. Most such persons were not priests or even under religious vows, but worked on the estates belonging to religious institutions. However, some were admitted as serving brothers or sisters. Nunneries also functioned as homes for unmarriageable women - typically unmarriageable because their fathers could not afford dowries. Often they were sent to nunneries against their wishes, as in the lyrics of a well-known song of the period:

    Une jeune fillette
    de noble coeur,
    Plaisante et joliette
    de grand' valeur,
    Outre son gré on l'a rendu nonnette
    Cela point ne luy haicte
    dont vit en grand' douleur...
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  130. @njguy73

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples.
     
    How many Smiths were originally Schmidts, Lefebvres, Ferraros, Ferreros, Smitses, Goffs, or Kovacs?

    Note: Commenter Jonathan Mason stated the same in Comment #40.

    …and Kowalski.

    What’s Jewish for that anyway? Eisner?

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    • Replies: @Old Jew
    From memory:

    Goldschmidt (Americanized Goldsmith), Kupferschmidt, Silberschmidt

    From:

    https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/features/.premium-1.584816

    ..................................................................
    Smith: Schmidt, Haddad, Schlosser, Blechman, Koval, Sayag, Goldschmidt, Zlotnick or Argentero

    .................................................................
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  131. @Steve Sailer
    Smiths are extremely common, but tend not to be world famous. Adam Smith is likely the most famous Smith ever.

    If “Smith” is common socially, then “Smithson”, the mere son of a smith, should be even more so.
    But in fact it is perhaps the grandest English name of all, at least once it was transmogrified into “Percy” by the heir to the eponymous estates and, ultimately, the first Duke of Northumberland of the third creation.
    And, of course, an illegitimate son of the house gave us the Smithsonian.

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    • Replies: @Cortes
    McGowan is also Smithson.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    And, of course, an illegitimate son of the house gave us the Smithsonian.
     
    That bastard!
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  132. OT: The NYT wrote about alt-right men dating asian women, including John Derbyshire.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/06/opinion/sunday/alt-right-asian-fetish.html

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    They even linked to an unz.com comment ("As a commenter wrote on an alt-right forum..."). (The commenter is A. Karlin though.)

    Hi, mom!

    , @Anonymous
    She keeps talking about "myths"...

    https://youtu.be/G2y8Sx4B2Sk

    The subject has been immortalized in the hilarious Charisma Man comics.

    http://www.charismaman.com

    , @guest
    Well, that's one thing alt-righters would have in common with the people around whose names they put parentheses.
    , @anon
    Never paid attention to Andrew Anglin-- he has remarkably asian-looking eyes for a white guy.
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  133. Dmitry says:
    @Anonymous
    Arguably the greatest mathematician in the second half of the 20th-century is a Shapiro, if he had taken his father's surname.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Grothendieck

    Very curious story. The father was born a Haredi – that turned into a some type of travelling liberal revolutionary. Cheated death in Tsarist dungeon. Chased out by Bolsheviks – eventually killed by the Nazis.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sascha_Schapiro

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  134. syonredux says:
    @International Jew
    Well, and then what? Relying on the siblings provides no mechanism for accumulating any genetic advantage.

    Imagine a uniform initial population of Jews. The smartest guy in the family becomes a rabbi. He marries the prettiest girl in town, or the richest: both ways, he tends to have more offspring. Now his smartest son becomes a rabbi...etc.

    Now start with a uniform population of Roman Catholics. Smartest boy in the family becomes a priest or a monk: then nothing. His siblings are nothing special (remember we started from a uniform population). Ok, maybe that smart boy's status as a priest improves his siblings' prospects on the marriage market. But they're still just average, so all that gets you is more children from average people.

    If you wanted to breed a really big dog, how far would you get if you castrated the biggest puppy of every litter?

    Well, and then what? Relying on the siblings provides no mechanism for accumulating any genetic advantage.

    Elementary genetics. If I don’t reproduce but both of my siblings do……

    Imagine a uniform initial population of Jews. The smartest guy in the family becomes a rabbi.

    Does he? Maybe the guy who becomes a rabbi is the one who likes sitting around….

    He marries the prettiest girl in town, or the richest: both ways, he tends to have more offspring. Now his smartest son becomes a rabbi…etc.

    My understanding is that the old idea of rabbis marrying the daughters of wealthy men is exaggerated….

    Now start with a uniform population of Roman Catholics. Smartest boy in the family becomes a priest or a monk: then nothing.

    Is he the smartest boy in the family? Perhaps he’s just the most pious….

    Ok, maybe that smart boy’s status as a priest improves his siblings’ prospects on the marriage market. But they’re still just average,

    Since heredity plays a role in IQ, odds say that the siblings of a guy with an above average IQ will also have above average IQs……

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    • Replies: @Anonym
    Is he the smartest boy in the family? Perhaps he’s just the most pious….

    Or maybe he just wants to be a fabulous entertainer, the star of the show every Sunday, with a great excuse for not having to marry and a supply of willing altar boys.

    , @jimbo
    Not to mention that a man who rose far in the medieval Church was likely to be in a position to raise his relatives status...
    , @International Jew


    Well, and then what? Relying on the siblings provides no mechanism for accumulating any genetic advantage.

     

    Elementary genetics. If I don’t reproduce but both of my siblings do……
     
    Sure, but that won't select for intelligence unless (1) your siblings also have the intelligence gene(s) and your being a priest or monk somehow helps your siblings have more kids than they would otherwise have.


    Imagine a uniform initial population of Jews. The smartest guy in the family becomes a rabbi.
     
    Does he? Maybe the guy who becomes a rabbi is the one who likes sitting around….

     

    In those days, when almost everyone was poor, if you were an untalented head-in-the-clouds kind of guy, you'd starve. In fact, without some external source of support, or your own ability to work at a high enough rate of pay to enable you to survive working just part-time, you wouldn't have had the spare time to undertake the course of study that would gain you the rabbi degree (called smicha).
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  135. @Verymuchalive

    Percy, such as the Hotspur in Shakespeare’s Henry IV Part 1, is a Norman surname, like Jane Austen’s Mr. Darcy. The Normans conquered Britain in 1066 and people with French Norman surnames remain over-represented in the betters jobs in Britain today. Some of that is likely due to name-changing, and I’m not sure how true that is in the U.S.

    But it remains a prestigious name. For example, when I moved to Chicago in 1982, Charles Percy was the Republican senator. He was mentioned as Presidential Timber from 1968 to 1988.

     
    The Normans did not conquer Britain in 1066, it was just England.
    But you have raised an important HBD point about the Percy family, though maybe you were unaware. The best way I can illustrate the point is to contrast them with the Campbell family. The head of the clan is the Duke of Argyll. From the C14th onwards, they expanded rapidly. Some of the clan were blood relative of the Duke, but as they expanded they absorbed clansfolk from other clans, who adopted the name Campbell. By the C17th the latter formed the overwhelming majority of the clan. By this time Campbell was a very common name. Add to that, there are Irish Campbells who have no connection to Scots Campbells whatsoever. Rather like the Scots and Irish Kennedys ( Kennedy is a much more common name in Scotland )
    By contrast, the Percy have always been a small Northumbrian clan. The head of the clan was and is the Duke of Northumberland. The Campbells basically tried to take over most of Argyll ( not good if you were a MacDonald ) whereas the Percys remained in the Alnwick-Warkworth area and left the other clans ( Heron, Collingwood, Cuthbert etc ) in place. I suspect that nearly all those born with the Percy surname are related to each other from the Middle Ages onwards. They are not numerous, but I have never met a poor one. They all seem to have affluent lifestyles. Indeed, one of them was even the Councillor of the Ward I lived in. As well as that, they all seemed to have similar discreet, well-mannered characteristics - not what you would expect from relatives of Harry Hotspur.

    The differences between" Mass Clans" and small, apparently related clans are often quite sharp. The former ( eg Campbells, MacDonalds etc ) have expanded by agglomeration. Comparatively few are related to each other or the main branch of the clan. They are a mixed bag of humanity.
    Small clans seem often to be formed of related persons. This is particularly noticeable with small, aristocratic clans like the Percys. Another example are the Mars, Marrs or Erskines. All three surnames are associated with the Earldom of Mar ( the World's oldest title ). Nearly all persons of these surnames are surmised to be related. As I said about the Percys, I've never met a poor one. And that goes for the ones who changed their names as well - like The Smiths' Johnny Marr, who changed his name from ( low class Irish ) Maher to ( aristocratic Scots ) Marr. Instant Surname Privilege !

    Highly interesting, thank you.
    I agree about the Percys – I too have never met a poor one.
    I do happen to know, on the other, that a family of lower class Erskines live, not only in Scotland, but actually in Alloa, the site of the historic seat of the Earls of Mar.
    Servants who took the name, or perhaps an illegitimate branch? In any case, they are always courteously treated by the head of the family.

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    • Replies: @Ivy
    C of E offspring took a slightly different path, where younger son(s) went into the priesthood since elder brothers had staked out the primogeniture and military roles.
    , @Verymuchalive
    Californian senior citizen, you are remarkably well-informed. Do I surmise that you have more than a little Scots ancestry?
    Actually the story is even more bizarre than you realise. The Mar clan originated in the Mar region, north of Aberdeen. By the 18th Century, most of the clan were living near Alloa, Clacks, Scotland. Only a residue lived in Mar. By this time, the earl and nearly all the Lowland clan bore the surname Erskine. Only the Highland clan retained the name Mar(r).
    After "Bobbing John", the earl at the time, got forfeited ( 1715 Jacobite Rebellion), things got even more complicated. This came to a head in the 1875 House of Lords case. It found that the Earl of Mar ( 1st Creation- according to the House of Lords ) was entitled (ho ho ho) to aforesaid title and was chief of clan Mar(r). The Earl of Mar and Kellie ( 7th Creation - according to House of Lords ) was entitled to aforesaid title and was chief of clan Erskine.
    This looks like a complete victory for the Earl of Mar. He is recognised as numero uno. He keeps the upmarket Mar(r)s. The Earl of Mar and Kellie is demoted to number 7 and has the more diverse Erskines.
    Then things get bonkers. The House of Lords agrees that the Earldom is the successor to the Mormaer of Mar going back a thousand years. And, of course, a thousand years ago, nobody had surnames. Thus the Earl of Mar is summarily excised of his surname. The present incumbent is Margaret of Mar, 31st Countess of Mar. She does NOT have a surname.
    She cannot have surname privilege because she has been legally removed of her surname !

    Always happy to keep an old Scots American informed.
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  136. IHTG says:
    @Dmitry
    Cohen is found in both European and Middle Eastern populations. But it seems to be more common in Middle Eastern origin families in Israel than in European origin ones. Economic achievement is affected more by the country of origin from which different populations immigrated, than by who has more prestigious surnames within those different populations.

    Amongst the Jews - I would guess a positive correlation with those with the most specifically German surnames and income, as these ('the Yekkes', as German Jews are called in Israel) are the historical demographic which was most successfully assimilated to secular life within Europe, prior to emigration. In Israel, German surname families like the Wertheimer family and the Strauss family are very dominant. I'd guess surnames like 'Oppenheimer' will have a strong correlation with income.

    But it seems to be more common in Middle Eastern origin families in Israel than in European origin ones.

    A lot of the European ones are called Katz rather than Cohen. And then there’s also Kagan/Kogan.

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    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Kogan is just very common Russian spelling of Cohen. Although nowadays the name spread around a lot to people which are hardly Cohens in the original sense. At my college there was a blonde, cross-wearing (Christian) girl with the surname.
    , @utu
    Variants of Cohen

    Now and Forever — A Conversation with Israel Zangwill (New York: Robert M. McBride & Co., 1925)
    Zangwill--That is strange, for in every European country Jews are foremost among the leaders in all the arts.
    Roth--It is not strange at all. Jewish literary talent in America has been exhausted in the effort to disguise the name Cohen of which you may find in the New York Telephone Directory no less than twenty-four variations: Cohen, Cohn, Cone, Cunn, Curie, Coan, Coon, Cohene, Cane, Kohn, Kohne, Kohen, Kohene, Kuhn, Kuhne, Kun, Kunn, Koen, Konn, Coone, Cahn, Kone, Kann, and Kahn
     
    , @Ripple Earthdevil
    Gazillion years ago I was interviewed at a small liberal arts college by a black man named Leslie Cohen. "Just like the Jews," he said.
    , @Dissident

    A lot of the European ones are called Katz rather than Cohen.
     
    "Katz" is a transliteration of an acronym for Kohein Tzedek ("Righteous priest").
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  137. Anonym says:
    @Yan Shen
    Not bad, average Shen federal salary comes out to $115,771.72, despite Shen not being a particularly common Chinese surname! Unfortunately though, I doubt this represents any kind of privilege. As I've repeatedly been arguing, Asian Americans are actually the most openly discriminated against group in American society today.

    I suspect more interesting than just looking at salary is also looking at what fields these people actually work in. Which groups of people in this country are disproportionately engaged in value creating STEM activities?

    Not bad, average Shen federal salary comes out to $115,771.72, despite Shen not being a particularly common Chinese surname! Unfortunately though, I doubt this represents any kind of privilege. As I’ve repeatedly been arguing, Asian Americans are actually the most openly discriminated against group in American society today.

    What the Asian-Americans giveth, the Asian-Americans taketh away on USB flash drives.

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    • Agree: Clyde
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  138. @Jonathan Mason

    Smiths are extremely common, but tend not to be world famous.
     
    There are many variations on Smith, including the German version Schmidt, Russian Kuznetsov, French Lebrun, Spanish Herrera, Italian Ferrero.

    A German variant would be Eisenhower, a hewer of iron. A Messerschmitt would be a maker of knives.


    For example, Hamilton is the best educated common surname in Britain and it’s the name of the most expensive ticket Broadway musical of all time in the U.S.

    But is Huntington, a fairly rare but overachieving name in the U.S., as upscale in Britain?
     

    At the most simple level Hamilton is a town in Scotland and Huntingdon is a town in England. Education in Scotland is often believed to be better than in England.

    However it is much more complicated that that. The Earls of Arran in Scotland have the family name Hamilton, and title of Earls of Huntingdon was created several times, but appears not to be associated with the town, which is best known as the birthplace of Oliver Cromwell and Samuel Pepys.

    So people who have the names might be associated with the aristocratic families, or just named after the towns.

    Further complicating factor is that Hamilton was the name of a hamlet in England, and the local family established itself in Scotland then founded a place named after the family. So this is rather like the pattern of arrival in the US giving places names that reminded them of home.

    Huntingdon,near Cambridge, is not very far from Boston, which I believe has a place in New England named after it that has a suburb named Cambridge, even though there is no River Cam in Boston, Mass.

    Hamilton in Scotland has a soccer team with the marvelous tongue twister name Hamilton Academicals.

    https://www.hamiltonacciesfc.co.uk/

    The earls of Huntington are distinguished, and their surname is Hastings, which also tends to be the same. The surname Huntington on the other hand is of no particular distinction in England.
    Hamilton is the most distinguished aristocratic name in Scotland – two dukedoms, two earldoms, a viscountcy, two baronies, three baronetcies, and four families of the landed gentry; all this without counting the extinct titles.
    I would wager then that something like 90% of the Oxford and Cambridge graduates bearing this name were scions of one or another of these families.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    A countess of Huntington was the financial and political backer of John Wesley.
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  139. @jesse helms think-alike
    Cohen is a name that has a hebrew meaning unlike some of the german yiddish jewish names:

    Cohen is a Hebrew name (כהן) which literally means "priest" (mostly of the Jewish religion). It's also a common Jewish surname which represents an ancient biblical priestly heritage.
     

    from babynamewizrd.com

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples. The number of present day Smiths cannot correspond to the percentage of actual working blacksmiths in the population at the time surnames were adopted. (how many blacksmiths does a society need?) It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.

    Similarly the name Fletcher meaning arrow maker while uncommon is still less rare than one would think. How many full time arrow makers (arrowsmiths?) can there have been?

    The intersection of linguistics and actual multi-layered meaning of words and names is a fascinating topic.

    For example the word safe for a strong box is a seemingly mundane word until you realize that having a safe to store your valuables makes you feel "safe" connecting the two meanings of the word.

    It could be that Smith was a relatively large proportion of a certain smaller class of artisans that grew to a larger proportion of the overall population as the country became more middle class in general.

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  140. @Alden
    Smith just means maker. So anyone who made things could have the name Smith.

    Smith just means maker. So anyone who made things could have the name Smith.

    That was my understanding too, until I checked Wikipedia, where it is claimed to mean someone who makes things with metal (confirmed by my 1970 Oxford Dictionary).

    Of course, these things can become updated. Did you know that one reputable dictionary (it might be the Oxford) now accepts that literally can mean metaphorically because it is a common usage. When I heard that, I was literally gobsmacked.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    This is a good illustration of what dictionaries are about. They describe how people use (and misuse) a language, and nothing gets lexicographers more excited than being the first one to document the latest solecism.

    Duos like literally/figuratively and nauseous/nauseating are particularly disappointing because the result is that we no longer have words which mean what the former of each of those pairs used to mean. There are many such examples and one effect is that our ability to think about things is actually diminished.
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  141. gregor says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Wouldn't black people throw a monkey (no pun intended) wrench into this analysis. American blacks often took the names of their plantation owners or even founding fathers. (Indeed, I mentioned to my daughter the other day that I'd never met a white person with the last name of Washington or Jefferson, but I've seen plenty of blacks with those surnames.)

    Surnames that have a lot of overlap between blacks and whites would skew the result toward less surname privilege since blacks tend to earn less. This would be particularly true on a list of government employee surnames since blacks are dramatically overrepresented in government workers.

    Washington was the first name I tried. Over 1,000 results. Interestingly, the top paid Shapiros are all physicians while for the top paid Washingtons you see only a couple physicians and a fair amount of jobs like “Miscellaneous Administration.” There also appear to be about 400 Washingtons working for the VA.

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  142. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I satisfied myself that yes indeed, there were a few $200k+ bearers of my surname. And then there were a few hundred of our ne-er in-laws and pretenders eking out $30-40k – at least they were employed is all I can say for their efforts.

    I only got so far, but I figure the first hundred or so results just happened to be a poor sample and there must have been a good many $250k+ guys hanging out at the back with names like Terence, William and Xavier.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That was supposed to be 'ne'er do well'.
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  143. What the Asian-Americans giveth, the Asian-Americans taketh away on USB flash drives.

    Yep, like info on every federal employee and all security clearance applications, including mine, from OPM. Now in the hands of the ChiComs.

    Did I mention that a female POC was head of OPM at the time, and that no one was punished?

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  144. Anonym says:
    @syonredux

    Well, and then what? Relying on the siblings provides no mechanism for accumulating any genetic advantage.
     
    Elementary genetics. If I don't reproduce but both of my siblings do......

    Imagine a uniform initial population of Jews. The smartest guy in the family becomes a rabbi.
     
    Does he? Maybe the guy who becomes a rabbi is the one who likes sitting around....

    He marries the prettiest girl in town, or the richest: both ways, he tends to have more offspring. Now his smartest son becomes a rabbi…etc.

     

    My understanding is that the old idea of rabbis marrying the daughters of wealthy men is exaggerated....

    Now start with a uniform population of Roman Catholics. Smartest boy in the family becomes a priest or a monk: then nothing.
     
    Is he the smartest boy in the family? Perhaps he's just the most pious....

    Ok, maybe that smart boy’s status as a priest improves his siblings’ prospects on the marriage market. But they’re still just average,
     
    Since heredity plays a role in IQ, odds say that the siblings of a guy with an above average IQ will also have above average IQs......

    Is he the smartest boy in the family? Perhaps he’s just the most pious….

    Or maybe he just wants to be a fabulous entertainer, the star of the show every Sunday, with a great excuse for not having to marry and a supply of willing altar boys.

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  145. Dmitry says:
    @IHTG

    But it seems to be more common in Middle Eastern origin families in Israel than in European origin ones.
     
    A lot of the European ones are called Katz rather than Cohen. And then there's also Kagan/Kogan.

    Kogan is just very common Russian spelling of Cohen. Although nowadays the name spread around a lot to people which are hardly Cohens in the original sense. At my college there was a blonde, cross-wearing (Christian) girl with the surname.

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  146. jimbo says:
    @syonredux

    Well, and then what? Relying on the siblings provides no mechanism for accumulating any genetic advantage.
     
    Elementary genetics. If I don't reproduce but both of my siblings do......

    Imagine a uniform initial population of Jews. The smartest guy in the family becomes a rabbi.
     
    Does he? Maybe the guy who becomes a rabbi is the one who likes sitting around....

    He marries the prettiest girl in town, or the richest: both ways, he tends to have more offspring. Now his smartest son becomes a rabbi…etc.

     

    My understanding is that the old idea of rabbis marrying the daughters of wealthy men is exaggerated....

    Now start with a uniform population of Roman Catholics. Smartest boy in the family becomes a priest or a monk: then nothing.
     
    Is he the smartest boy in the family? Perhaps he's just the most pious....

    Ok, maybe that smart boy’s status as a priest improves his siblings’ prospects on the marriage market. But they’re still just average,
     
    Since heredity plays a role in IQ, odds say that the siblings of a guy with an above average IQ will also have above average IQs......

    Not to mention that a man who rose far in the medieval Church was likely to be in a position to raise his relatives status…

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  147. Ivy says:
    @Old Palo Altan
    Highly interesting, thank you.
    I agree about the Percys - I too have never met a poor one.
    I do happen to know, on the other, that a family of lower class Erskines live, not only in Scotland, but actually in Alloa, the site of the historic seat of the Earls of Mar.
    Servants who took the name, or perhaps an illegitimate branch? In any case, they are always courteously treated by the head of the family.

    C of E offspring took a slightly different path, where younger son(s) went into the priesthood since elder brothers had staked out the primogeniture and military roles.

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  148. Cortes says:
    @Old Palo Altan
    If "Smith" is common socially, then "Smithson", the mere son of a smith, should be even more so.
    But in fact it is perhaps the grandest English name of all, at least once it was transmogrified into "Percy" by the heir to the eponymous estates and, ultimately, the first Duke of Northumberland of the third creation.
    And, of course, an illegitimate son of the house gave us the Smithsonian.

    McGowan is also Smithson.

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  149. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Pseudonymic Handle
    OT: The NYT wrote about alt-right men dating asian women, including John Derbyshire.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/06/opinion/sunday/alt-right-asian-fetish.html

    They even linked to an unz.com comment (“As a commenter wrote on an alt-right forum…”). (The commenter is A. Karlin though.)

    Hi, mom!

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  150. @Dmitry
    Cohen is found in both European and Middle Eastern populations. But it seems to be more common in Middle Eastern origin families in Israel than in European origin ones. Economic achievement is affected more by the country of origin from which different populations immigrated, than by who has more prestigious surnames within those different populations.

    Amongst the Jews - I would guess a positive correlation with those with the most specifically German surnames and income, as these ('the Yekkes', as German Jews are called in Israel) are the historical demographic which was most successfully assimilated to secular life within Europe, prior to emigration. In Israel, German surname families like the Wertheimer family and the Strauss family are very dominant. I'd guess surnames like 'Oppenheimer' will have a strong correlation with income.

    All Wertheimers are related, as are all Oppenheimers. But these are fairly recent families, which took their name from their towns of origin. Frankfurter too, although from such a big place many families of the name may well have issued forth.
    I am reminded of the following wonderful story, too good to be true I fear:
    Emperor Franz Josef was a very punctilious man, and never shirked his duty. At the end of a long day, he was about to take off his uniform when a courtier entered the room with an embarrassed look: might His Imperial and Royal Highness spare a few moments for His Serene Highness the Prince of Loewenstein – Wertheim – Rosenberg?
    The Emperor’s hearing was not what it had been: “Doch, doch”, he murmured, “escort the three old Jews in!”

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    • Agree: Dmitry
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    The Wertheimers in Israel are from Kippenheim in South West Germany - according to Wikipedia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stef_Wertheimer


    The ones in France don't seem to be related, although they come from near the same region.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alain_Wertheimer
    ---

    I don't know of Oppenheimers in Israel.

    But you can see them in the UK
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hodge

    South Africa
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicky_Oppenheimer


    Germany
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppenheim_family

    US
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Robert_Oppenheimer

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  151. @Anon
    Recently had my hair cut by a woman named Uniqua. No kidding.

    Recently had my hair cut by a woman named Uniqua. No kidding.

    I know a women named Perma, unfortunately she is not a hairdresser, but she tells me her name is even uniquer than Uniqua.

    Also with reference to a lack of federal employees named Laquisha as mentioned in a post above, I believe the name is more commonly spelled either as Lakeisha or as Lakesha, and, surprisingly to me, it is also used as a white name. Actually I know a white Lakesha.

    The problem with made-up names is that if you are uneducated, you may well given your child the name of an unpleasant disease without knowing it. It has always baffled me that there is a chain of shoe stores called The Athletes Foot, apparently oblivious of the fact, or perhaps because of the fact that athlete’s foot is a fungal infection that grows between the toes.

    Of course it all depends where you are. In England I once met an American man called Randolph Hornblower, who said that in the US everyone called him “Horny”. It was a relief for him to arrive in Britain where people asked him if he was “Randy”.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    . It has always baffled me that there is a chain of shoe stores called The Athletes Foot, apparently oblivious of the fact, or perhaps because of the fact that athlete’s foot is a fungal infection that grows between the toes.
     
    I always assumed that they were being playful......
    , @Anonymous
    Sounds like you have not yet seen Shirley Q's "Who is my baby daddy" in which case you are are in for a heck of a treat.
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  152. snorlax says:
    @Dmitry
    Cohen is found in both European and Middle Eastern populations. But it seems to be more common in Middle Eastern origin families in Israel than in European origin ones. Economic achievement is affected more by the country of origin from which different populations immigrated, than by who has more prestigious surnames within those different populations.

    Amongst the Jews - I would guess a positive correlation with those with the most specifically German surnames and income, as these ('the Yekkes', as German Jews are called in Israel) are the historical demographic which was most successfully assimilated to secular life within Europe, prior to emigration. In Israel, German surname families like the Wertheimer family and the Strauss family are very dominant. I'd guess surnames like 'Oppenheimer' will have a strong correlation with income.

    I don’t have the exact numbers, but my well-educated guess is American Jews are north of 95% Ashkenazi, with the remainder mostly nouveau riche, gold-chain-wearing recent Persian and Israeli immigrants. It’s safe to assume any American named Cohen, Cohn, Kohn et al is 100% Ashkenazi, or at least 0% other-kinds-of-Jews.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    I don’t have the exact numbers, but my well-educated guess is American Jews are north of 95% Ashkenazi, with the remainder mostly nouveau riche, gold-chain-wearing recent Persian and Israeli immigrants.
     
    A small handful descend from the Sephardic Jews who settled here in the Colonial Period:


    The Grandees: The Story of America's Sephardic Elite
    by Stephen Birmingham

    https://www.amazon.com/Grandees-Americas-Sephardic-Modern-History/dp/0815604599
    , @Karl
    151 snorlax > with the remainder mostly nouveau riche, gold-chain-wearing recent Persian and Israeli immigrants


    i'll mention your theory to the folks at the Spanish and Portugese Synagogue in New York (established in 1654)

    the sfardim have been in the New World since the late 1590's. At which time, by the way, their cousins had already been in Tiberias for a hundred years or so.

    Google on "American Sephardi". These folks consider themselves as Blue Bloods. And in many ways, they ==do== have a better claim to be Judean than any recent British Royal Family has a claim to being English.
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  153. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    I satisfied myself that yes indeed, there were a few $200k+ bearers of my surname. And then there were a few hundred of our ne-er in-laws and pretenders eking out $30-40k - at least they were employed is all I can say for their efforts.

    I only got so far, but I figure the first hundred or so results just happened to be a poor sample and there must have been a good many $250k+ guys hanging out at the back with names like Terence, William and Xavier.

    That was supposed to be ‘ne’er do well’.

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  154. Flip says:
    @Sgt. Joe Friday
    Shapiro is also the name of the family that owned Familian Pipe & Supply from 1962 to 1987. Familian was a well-known plumbing wholesaler in California, Nevada, and Hawaii.

    Bob Shapiro was the CEO of Monsanto.

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  155. @Ivy
    And Smith's cousins, the Wrights: Ark, Mill, Ship.

    And Smith’s cousins, the Wrights: Ark, Mill, Ship.

    Not to mention Cart and Wain, but Play never seems to have become a surname.

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  156. I had googled Margaret Thatcher since I remembered her maiden name was Roberts (Welsh patrynomic & all that). I was curious to see if she had any recent Welsh forbears but instead shockingly enough her father’s grandmother was Irish Catholic (Sullivan no less). This is of course the Iron Lady we are speaking of who survived the IRA and it was a fact I had never known about.

    It prompts me to reflect that despite the Famine & pogroms (which were horrific historical experiences) one of the main gripes of Irish Catholic & Jewish communities is that to socially advance they had to assimilate into WASP society in the 19th & 20th centuries.

    In those cases assimilation meant giving up a particularly tenaciously held religious-cultural identity that had survived so much and to somehow let it go for societal advancement seemed churlish, almost cowardly. It’s interesting that all discrimination simply melted away when these two groups gave up the Pope & the Synagogue so it wasn’t really founded on race (an Anglo-Irish was simply a Protestant Irishman).

    Finally Jews in Britain & the Irish in America seem much more culturally quiescient than their trans-Atlantic counterparts. That may be because of the preponderance of White identity in the US (which Irish Americans are comfortable with) and English-British in the UK (which British Jews but not the Irish partake in; a historical insult has been “West British”).

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    • Replies: @Cortes
    “Soup takers” is worse.
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  157. @anonymous
    I have a basic, working knowledge of German but admittedly didn't know that the word for "rope" is "seil" (pr. "zile"). So... "Der Seiler" would indeed translate to "ropemaker".

    Which proves an old adage to be true--you DO learn something new every day.

    Tschuss!!

    Der Seiler” would indeed translate to “ropemaker”

    The English surname is Roper, though English mountaineers do sometimes use the technique known as abseiling that involves the use of a rope.

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  158. I seem to share my surname with 350 federal employees. I’m not going to calculate an average, but I did note that one guy makes a whopping $330,000 per year. Curiously, he lives in the same city that I do, although I am not related to him and I do not know him.

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  159. @Lurker
    Isn't that 'Smythe' rather than 'Smythes'?

    Maybe there is a tendency for upscale Smiths to become Smythes. But downwardly mobile Smythes might feel the urge to change to Smith to fit in? This would bed in the surname privilege over time.

    Isn’t that ‘Smythe’ rather than ‘Smythes’?

    No. Steve was using the plural: “Smythes…really are”

    In Britain, Smythes (a snobbish variant of Smith) really are more high achieving than Smiths.

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    • Replies: @Lurker
    Thanks, I see now.
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  160. slumber_j says:
    @kihowi
    Sort of related: if you speak a bunch of languages, you'll realize that the tendency for poor people to give their children whacky names is universal. Must have something to do with magical thinking and the belief in the power of a sound.

    Yeah: Hispano-Americans are completely out of control in that regard. Just check out the names among random Major League players and compare them to real Spanish Christian names. I can think of no Saint Yasiel, Yadier, Asdrubal, Kendrys or even–if we’re gonna get all technical about it–Jhonny.

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    • Replies: @Anonspc
    "Asdrubal" isn't too odd.
    Hannibal (of the elephant-over-the-alps fame) had a brother and second in command known in English as Hasdrubal. Spanish has a odd relationship with the "h" sound, so Asdrubal is a solid rendering.
    In Spain proper, Hannibal and his reign have a "home town" feel. Hannibal colonized much of what we know as the modern Spanish cities etc. he is as good a place as any to start as a Founding Father for a cohesive, collective Spain rather than stand-alone city states. As an example, Hannibal's clan name is Barca, from which we get Barcelona.
    Hannibal/Hasdrubal have cachet in Spanish that, while not mirrored in English or French, *is* a longstanding, organic element of culture. Asdrubal =/= Deshawndreisha
    , @Cortes
    Can’t see much wrong with Asdrubal...

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasdrubal_Barca

    Anibal is quite a popular name (famous Argentine tango star was Anibal Troilo) also.
    , @Jonathan Mason

    I can think of no Saint Yasiel, Yadier, Asdrubal, Kendrys or even–if we’re gonna get all technical about it–Jhonny.
     
    Jhonny is a shorted form of the Spanish name Jhonattan, as for example in the professional golfer Jhonattan Vegas. It is a somewhat phonetic (in Spanish) rendition of the Jewish name Yonatan which comes from the Old Testament. Jonathan was the best friend (?lover) of King David, an important Bronze Age chieftain in Jewish history.

    So not a saint's name.

    Yasiel is a Spanish version of the biblical Jasiel = whom God made, and also one of King David's cohorts.

    So not a saint's name.

    Asdrubal would be a Spanish version of the name of the Carthaginian general Hasdrubal Barca who was the son of Hamilcar and brother of Hannibal. There is some suggestion that the city of Barcelona is named after this family, but scholars consider this to be a folk derivation.

    So not a Christian saint's name either.

    Yadier is a popular Hispanic name with Jewish origins, compare to Yadira.

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  161. syonredux says:
    @snorlax
    I don't have the exact numbers, but my well-educated guess is American Jews are north of 95% Ashkenazi, with the remainder mostly nouveau riche, gold-chain-wearing recent Persian and Israeli immigrants. It's safe to assume any American named Cohen, Cohn, Kohn et al is 100% Ashkenazi, or at least 0% other-kinds-of-Jews.

    I don’t have the exact numbers, but my well-educated guess is American Jews are north of 95% Ashkenazi, with the remainder mostly nouveau riche, gold-chain-wearing recent Persian and Israeli immigrants.

    A small handful descend from the Sephardic Jews who settled here in the Colonial Period:

    The Grandees: The Story of America’s Sephardic Elite
    by Stephen Birmingham

    https://www.amazon.com/Grandees-Americas-Sephardic-Modern-History/dp/0815604599

    Read More
    • Replies: @snorlax
    But they were tiny in number compared to the later Ashkenazi immigration, and (AFAIK) no longer exist as a distinct group due to intermarriage with the Ashkenazi and gentile populations.
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  162. Dmitry says:
    @Old Palo Altan
    All Wertheimers are related, as are all Oppenheimers. But these are fairly recent families, which took their name from their towns of origin. Frankfurter too, although from such a big place many families of the name may well have issued forth.
    I am reminded of the following wonderful story, too good to be true I fear:
    Emperor Franz Josef was a very punctilious man, and never shirked his duty. At the end of a long day, he was about to take off his uniform when a courtier entered the room with an embarrassed look: might His Imperial and Royal Highness spare a few moments for His Serene Highness the Prince of Loewenstein - Wertheim - Rosenberg?
    The Emperor's hearing was not what it had been: "Doch, doch", he murmured, "escort the three old Jews in!"

    The Wertheimers in Israel are from Kippenheim in South West Germany – according to Wikipedia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stef_Wertheimer

    The ones in France don’t seem to be related, although they come from near the same region.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alain_Wertheimer

    I don’t know of Oppenheimers in Israel.

    But you can see them in the UK

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hodge

    South Africa

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicky_Oppenheimer

    Germany

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppenheim_family

    US

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Robert_Oppenheimer

    Read More
    • Replies: @IHTG

    I don’t know of Oppenheimers in Israel.
     
    You definitely know one. Peace Now!
    , @Joe Stalin
    One of Robert Oppenheimer's children went to Hyde Park HS in Chicago in the 1960s.
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  163. syonredux says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Recently had my hair cut by a woman named Uniqua. No kidding.
     
    I know a women named Perma, unfortunately she is not a hairdresser, but she tells me her name is even uniquer than Uniqua.

    Also with reference to a lack of federal employees named Laquisha as mentioned in a post above, I believe the name is more commonly spelled either as Lakeisha or as Lakesha, and, surprisingly to me, it is also used as a white name. Actually I know a white Lakesha.

    The problem with made-up names is that if you are uneducated, you may well given your child the name of an unpleasant disease without knowing it. It has always baffled me that there is a chain of shoe stores called The Athletes Foot, apparently oblivious of the fact, or perhaps because of the fact that athlete's foot is a fungal infection that grows between the toes.

    Of course it all depends where you are. In England I once met an American man called Randolph Hornblower, who said that in the US everyone called him "Horny". It was a relief for him to arrive in Britain where people asked him if he was "Randy".

    . It has always baffled me that there is a chain of shoe stores called The Athletes Foot, apparently oblivious of the fact, or perhaps because of the fact that athlete’s foot is a fungal infection that grows between the toes.

    I always assumed that they were being playful……

    Read More
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  164. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Pseudonymic Handle
    OT: The NYT wrote about alt-right men dating asian women, including John Derbyshire.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/06/opinion/sunday/alt-right-asian-fetish.html

    She keeps talking about “myths”…

    The subject has been immortalized in the hilarious Charisma Man comics.

    http://www.charismaman.com

    Read More
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  165. OT: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-07/wikileaks-publishes-michael-wolffs-entire-sold-out-trump-book-pdf

    I’m with Nikki Haley who told little Georgie S that she hadn’t and wouldn’t read it.

    Great to see that DJT has told both the UN and Pakistan to go pound sand.

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    • Replies: @anon
    Fact or fiction, his narrative style is damn riveting. Beware, very unputdownable. I want to read Rupert Murdoch book now.

    Also, besides that John Boehner episode, nobody has said one word in rebuttal.
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  166. snorlax says:
    @syonredux

    I don’t have the exact numbers, but my well-educated guess is American Jews are north of 95% Ashkenazi, with the remainder mostly nouveau riche, gold-chain-wearing recent Persian and Israeli immigrants.
     
    A small handful descend from the Sephardic Jews who settled here in the Colonial Period:


    The Grandees: The Story of America's Sephardic Elite
    by Stephen Birmingham

    https://www.amazon.com/Grandees-Americas-Sephardic-Modern-History/dp/0815604599

    But they were tiny in number compared to the later Ashkenazi immigration, and (AFAIK) no longer exist as a distinct group due to intermarriage with the Ashkenazi and gentile populations.

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  167. IHTG says:
    @Dmitry
    The Wertheimers in Israel are from Kippenheim in South West Germany - according to Wikipedia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stef_Wertheimer


    The ones in France don't seem to be related, although they come from near the same region.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alain_Wertheimer
    ---

    I don't know of Oppenheimers in Israel.

    But you can see them in the UK
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hodge

    South Africa
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicky_Oppenheimer


    Germany
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppenheim_family

    US
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Robert_Oppenheimer

    I don’t know of Oppenheimers in Israel.

    You definitely know one. Peace Now!

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  168. Corn says:
    @Nico
    Oriental countries do seem to have inherited a rather limited range of surnames compared with most Western countries, though it should be remembered that in Wales for example something like 30 surnames account for 90% of the population.

    “Wales for example something like 30 surnames account for 90% of the population.”

    I read once in the Welsh Guards regiments of the Royal Army mail call or musters get interesting. So many Joneses for example it’s often “Private Jones Number 2, or Private Jones Number 9” etc

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    I read once in the Welsh Guards regiments of the Royal Army mail call or musters get interesting. So many Joneses for example it’s often “Private Jones Number 2, or Private Jones Number 9” etc
     
    From Zulu:

    Pvt. William Jones: What's he up to, 593?

    Pte. Robert Jones: Oh, I think he wants to be hero, 716.

    Cpl. Frederic Schiess, NNC: Haven't you rednecks got names instead of numbers?

    Pte. Robert Jones: 'Tis a Welsh regiment, man! Though there are some foreigners from England in it , mind. I am Jones from Bwlchgwyn, he is Jones from Builth Wells, and there are four more Joneses in C Company! Confusing, isn't it, Dutchy?
     
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058777/quotes
    , @Cortes
    Nicknames (eke or eik names to which the n of the indefinite article became attached) are necessary in many places.
    Jimmy Sue (for his wife) to distinguish from ten other Jimmy Gardiners
    Black Angus (hair or temper) for the same reason.

    Or one guy called Eddie Gallagher (a “blow-in”) who was referred to by all as Eddie Barrett (wife’s surname).

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  169. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Cohen is among the more common Ashkenazi surnames, but it’s not particularly high-achieving by Jewish standards.

    I wonder if the Coen Brothers are descendants of some guy who changed the spelling of his name for social climbing reasons, the way my surname descends from some guy named Seiler (ropemaker) who became mayor of a small town in Switzerland and changed the spelling of his name to Sailer for snobbish purposes.

    Maybe, but there’s an awful lot of “Cohen” variants to explain. Kohen, Kahane, Kagan, Cohn, Cohan, Cohane, Cohne, Cone, Kahn, Kaganovich, etc. It’s basically “King” for Jews. Descendants of the priestly caste.

    http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/4454-cohen

    https://www.geni.com/projects/The-Cohen-Project/808

    Cohen, *Cohn, *Cowan, *Kagan, *Kaganov, *Kaganovich, *Kahane, *Kahn, *Kaplan, *Kogan, *Kohen, *Kohn, *Rapaport, *Rappaport, Kohnowski, Kogen, Kohan, Katz, Kahane, Kahin, Coffen, Cogan, Cahana, Koon, Conn, Cone, Cohnheim, Cohnfeld, Cahn, Cahen.
    See Cohen Surnames on Geni

    https://www.geni.com/surnames/Cohen

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    • Replies: @Dmitry
    It mainly looks like just different ways to transliterate the letters in the original Hebrew word (with vowels, without vowels, with different interpretations of the vowels, etc).

    The funny one there is Katz, which was formed from the initials of 'Holy Priest' (although written the other way round).

    Others are what happens when you translate the word into another language or add a suffix.

    ---

    There's a reverse situation for Russian women's surnames in Hebrew - where they usually lose their suffixes in Israel, to make it easier for Israelis that don't understand the naming conventions. (And result sounds very eccentric to Russian ears).

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  170. “.. people with French Norman surnames remain over-represented in the better jobs in Britain today. Some of that is likely due to name-changing, and I’m not sure how true that is in the U.S.”

    The New Jews (ex-russian empire, late 19th century) are insatiable surname stealers (the post -Cromwell crowd are pretty OK people, I find). But only of the minor aristocracy and provincial gentry. Therefore northern-English, Welsh and Scottish “Norman” names are ludicrously overrepresented among Thatcher’s “old Estonians, not old Etonians”.

    For some no doubt Dunning/Kruger reason, they think that )))we((( can’t tell, or that others can’t.
    Like no man ever looked like his father, ever, in this island.
    (Bad news, Jews. I can even tell a Catholic at 30 yards, never mind a Welshman. Anyone who clumsily attempts to conceal their Kindred, Name and indeed House in this manner will be tret according. We’ve been doing this since … forever. Think on …)

    I note with interest that neither common Saxon names nor (insanely hazardous, feud-risking) Gaelic names are ever suborned in this manner. Says a lot about (((their))) intentions over “integration” with the aborigines.

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  171. Svigor says:

    As I’ve repeatedly been arguing, Asian Americans are actually the most openly discriminated against group in American society today.

    A great reason to end immigration of Asians. Spare them the oppression, and ourselves the whining.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    As I’ve repeatedly been arguing, Asian Americans are actually the most openly discriminated against group in American society today.

    A great reason to end immigration of Asians. Spare them the oppression, and ourselves the whining.
     
    Here's my rule for immigration: Don't allow in anyone who can make a claim for discrimination based on ethnic/racial/religious grounds.
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  172. @snorlax
    "Cohen" and variants denote membership in ancient Judaism's priestly caste (similar to Brahmins), who (historically and in Orthodox Judaism) are also outright forbidden to marry gentiles, converts or half-Jews, so if it isn't a particularly prestigious surname it would seem to contradict both the thesis of this post and HBD explanations for Ashkenazi achievement.

    … so if it isn’t a particularly prestigious surname it would seem to contradict both the thesis of this post and HBD explanations for Ashkenazi achievement.

    Not at all. Literacy–that in the initial screen/cull to startup Ashkenazi, literacy at the recite the Torah level would be a selection factor giving you a good IQ at launch–has been proposed by lots of people including me. (JackD suggested even this might not be the case–you didn’t really have to be literate to do the necessary ritual recitation.)

    However, grinding through the centuries what’s really going to be selective is economic performance. Do you want to marry your really hot/healthy/fertile daughter to the rabbi’s boy, or the son of the successfully banker or grain trader? All else even close to equal, my daughter’s going with B.

    It’s actually the economic benefit of IQ that will drive selection–better survival of children, and ergo better mates to have children with.

    The Jewish community can through monetary support and bestowing social status drive up the relative standing of the rabbi and appeal of the young rabbis as marriage partners. But it’s hard for it to be at the very top in a community that is doing so well in intellectually demanding professions. And then the real breakout of the Jewish community in the last couple hundred years was when they realized the goyim had actually shot by them in intellectual development while they were treading water in their little closed backwater. The folks/families leading the charge to engage with European intellectual developments, were not the rabbinate.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Not at all. Literacy–that in the initial screen/cull to startup Ashkenazi, literacy at the recite the Torah level would be a selection factor giving you a good IQ at launch–has been proposed by lots of people including me. (JackD suggested even this might not be the case–you didn’t really have to be literate to do the necessary ritual recitation.)
     
    Literacy is a very low bar; people with Down's Syndrome can learn how to read. I doubt that that had much of a eugenic effect.
    , @kaganovitch
    Rabbinic and wealthy families were largely the same families for hundreds of years up until emancipation. As it happens, before emancipation and the advent of the "pulpit Rabbi", the rabbinate was a much more demanding intellectual endeavor which required the mastery of a vast corpus of law and text.
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  173. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Wouldn't black people throw a monkey (no pun intended) wrench into this analysis. American blacks often took the names of their plantation owners or even founding fathers. (Indeed, I mentioned to my daughter the other day that I'd never met a white person with the last name of Washington or Jefferson, but I've seen plenty of blacks with those surnames.)

    Surnames that have a lot of overlap between blacks and whites would skew the result toward less surname privilege since blacks tend to earn less. This would be particularly true on a list of government employee surnames since blacks are dramatically overrepresented in government workers.

    I’d never met a white person with the last name of Washington or Jefferson, but I’ve seen plenty of blacks with those surnames

    Back when he was funny, Bill Simmons compiled a list he called the Reggie Cleveland All-Stars. This was a list of white athletes whose names made them sound black.

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  174. Anonspc says:
    @slumber_j
    Yeah: Hispano-Americans are completely out of control in that regard. Just check out the names among random Major League players and compare them to real Spanish Christian names. I can think of no Saint Yasiel, Yadier, Asdrubal, Kendrys or even--if we're gonna get all technical about it--Jhonny.

    “Asdrubal” isn’t too odd.
    Hannibal (of the elephant-over-the-alps fame) had a brother and second in command known in English as Hasdrubal. Spanish has a odd relationship with the “h” sound, so Asdrubal is a solid rendering.
    In Spain proper, Hannibal and his reign have a “home town” feel. Hannibal colonized much of what we know as the modern Spanish cities etc. he is as good a place as any to start as a Founding Father for a cohesive, collective Spain rather than stand-alone city states. As an example, Hannibal’s clan name is Barca, from which we get Barcelona.
    Hannibal/Hasdrubal have cachet in Spanish that, while not mirrored in English or French, *is* a longstanding, organic element of culture. Asdrubal =/= Deshawndreisha

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  175. Cortes says:
    @slumber_j
    Yeah: Hispano-Americans are completely out of control in that regard. Just check out the names among random Major League players and compare them to real Spanish Christian names. I can think of no Saint Yasiel, Yadier, Asdrubal, Kendrys or even--if we're gonna get all technical about it--Jhonny.

    Can’t see much wrong with Asdrubal…

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasdrubal_Barca

    Anibal is quite a popular name (famous Argentine tango star was Anibal Troilo) also.

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  176. @International Jew
    Well, and then what? Relying on the siblings provides no mechanism for accumulating any genetic advantage.

    Imagine a uniform initial population of Jews. The smartest guy in the family becomes a rabbi. He marries the prettiest girl in town, or the richest: both ways, he tends to have more offspring. Now his smartest son becomes a rabbi...etc.

    Now start with a uniform population of Roman Catholics. Smartest boy in the family becomes a priest or a monk: then nothing. His siblings are nothing special (remember we started from a uniform population). Ok, maybe that smart boy's status as a priest improves his siblings' prospects on the marriage market. But they're still just average, so all that gets you is more children from average people.

    If you wanted to breed a really big dog, how far would you get if you castrated the biggest puppy of every litter?

    “Now start with a uniform population of Roman Catholics. Smartest boy in the family becomes a priest or a monk: then nothing. His siblings are nothing special (remember we started from a uniform population)…”

    Your premise is wrong. In mediaeval times, it was not the smartest boy in the family that became a priest – it was a younger son who would not inherit the family’s estates. He was, in other words, a spare rather than an heir. Priests were drawn from the “better” classes – as a rule they had to be legitimate, and free-born (so, not of the villein caste). In some places all four grandparents had to be armigerous.

    Younger sons had career options in the church, the military, and after a point, in the law. One might become a clergyman because he was a poor physical specimen and not fit to be a soldier; such was the case with Talleyrand, who was lamed in an accident at the age of four, and made a churchman (becoming bishop of Autun in 1789, just as revolution was about to break out).

    If an heir died leaving a priest next in line to titles and estates, it was not uncommon that he might be dispensed of his vows so that he might succeed to them. An example of this was Cesare Borgia, made archbishop of Valencia in 1492 and a cardinal in 1493. When his brother Giovanni died in 1497 (some say with “assistance” from his younger brother), Cesare sought release from his vows and renounced his cardinalate in 1498, to become Duke of Valentinois, gonfalonier and captain-general of the Holy Roman Church.

    Monks and nuns present a different picture. Monasteries and convents supplied the mediaeval equivalent of social welfare services, finding accommodation and work for those who could get it nowhere else. Most such persons were not priests or even under religious vows, but worked on the estates belonging to religious institutions. However, some were admitted as serving brothers or sisters. Nunneries also functioned as homes for unmarriageable women – typically unmarriageable because their fathers could not afford dowries. Often they were sent to nunneries against their wishes, as in the lyrics of a well-known song of the period:

    Une jeune fillette
    de noble coeur,
    Plaisante et joliette
    de grand’ valeur,
    Outre son gré on l’a rendu nonnette
    Cela point ne luy haicte
    dont vit en grand’ douleur…

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    • Agree: Dan Hayes, Dmitry
    • Replies: @International Jew
    Interesting, thanks. So, bottom line, would you say Christian societies of the time selected for intelligence, or against it?
    , @Anonymous
    Your writing style is a balm to my wounded spirit. 'Twas Society what done that, and I'm greatly obliged for the relief.
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  177. @Dmitry
    The Wertheimers in Israel are from Kippenheim in South West Germany - according to Wikipedia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stef_Wertheimer


    The ones in France don't seem to be related, although they come from near the same region.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alain_Wertheimer
    ---

    I don't know of Oppenheimers in Israel.

    But you can see them in the UK
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hodge

    South Africa
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicky_Oppenheimer


    Germany
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppenheim_family

    US
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Robert_Oppenheimer

    One of Robert Oppenheimer’s children went to Hyde Park HS in Chicago in the 1960s.

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  178. utu says:
    @IHTG

    But it seems to be more common in Middle Eastern origin families in Israel than in European origin ones.
     
    A lot of the European ones are called Katz rather than Cohen. And then there's also Kagan/Kogan.

    Variants of Cohen

    Now and Forever — A Conversation with Israel Zangwill (New York: Robert M. McBride & Co., 1925)
    Zangwill–That is strange, for in every European country Jews are foremost among the leaders in all the arts.
    Roth–It is not strange at all. Jewish literary talent in America has been exhausted in the effort to disguise the name Cohen of which you may find in the New York Telephone Directory no less than twenty-four variations: Cohen, Cohn, Cone, Cunn, Curie, Coan, Coon, Cohene, Cane, Kohn, Kohne, Kohen, Kohene, Kuhn, Kuhne, Kun, Kunn, Koen, Konn, Coone, Cahn, Kone, Kann, and Kahn

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    • Replies: @Ripple Earthdevil
    I've never seen a lot of these Cohen variations, yet one of the most well-known ones due to a pair of film-making brothers isn't even on the list.
    , @a reader

    Cohen, Cohn, Cone, Cunn, Curie, Coan, Coon, Cohene, Cane, Kohn, Kohne, Kohen, Kohene, Kuhn, Kuhne, Kun, Kunn, Koen, Konn, Coone, Cahn, Kone, Kann, and Kahn
     
    Is there some appropriation going on?
    , @a reader
    What about Coben?
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  179. G Pinfold says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Wouldn't black people throw a monkey (no pun intended) wrench into this analysis. American blacks often took the names of their plantation owners or even founding fathers. (Indeed, I mentioned to my daughter the other day that I'd never met a white person with the last name of Washington or Jefferson, but I've seen plenty of blacks with those surnames.)

    Surnames that have a lot of overlap between blacks and whites would skew the result toward less surname privilege since blacks tend to earn less. This would be particularly true on a list of government employee surnames since blacks are dramatically overrepresented in government workers.

    If it’s a reasonably common name, just throw in a white first name (Brian, Clive, Nigel, Alan) to ethnic-cleanse the sample

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  180. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @AndrewR
    Not mutually exclusive things. On average, compared to poorer people, wealthier people likely tend to have genes and customs more conducive to generating and keeping wealth. That doesn't necessarily mean that many wealthier people don't benefit from certain practices and systems that give them an unfair advantage. The fact that George W. Bush (who was average, at best, in both intelligence and ambition, and who never would have risen in social class had he been born poor) was elected president [...twice...] proves beyond any reasonable doubt that "unfair advantage engendered by a socially unjust environment" is a major factor in the success of many people. The same of course could be said about Barack Obama (via different injustices) and probably Donald Trump too.

    Say what you will about Donald John Trump, he’s a billionaire, and he only had a few million handed to him. He’s done alright for a shaygets in a very Jewish millieu. He has drive and ambition and balls. Neither Obama nor GWB can say that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    Say what you will about Donald John Trump, he’s a billionaire, and he only had a few million handed to him.

    Except that is simply not true. He is not a billionaire and his net worth today is about what he inherited, adjusted for inflation. For the past two decades he has been viewed as a joke by people who actually make money in real estate. That is a fact. Trump has one virtue - he is strong on immigration. He has no other virtues, but maybe at this point in history that one virtue is enough.

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  181. syonredux says:
    @AnotherDad

    ... so if it isn’t a particularly prestigious surname it would seem to contradict both the thesis of this post and HBD explanations for Ashkenazi achievement.
     
    Not at all. Literacy--that in the initial screen/cull to startup Ashkenazi, literacy at the recite the Torah level would be a selection factor giving you a good IQ at launch--has been proposed by lots of people including me. (JackD suggested even this might not be the case--you didn't really have to be literate to do the necessary ritual recitation.)

    However, grinding through the centuries what's really going to be selective is economic performance. Do you want to marry your really hot/healthy/fertile daughter to the rabbi's boy, or the son of the successfully banker or grain trader? All else even close to equal, my daughter's going with B.

    It's actually the economic benefit of IQ that will drive selection--better survival of children, and ergo better mates to have children with.

    The Jewish community can through monetary support and bestowing social status drive up the relative standing of the rabbi and appeal of the young rabbis as marriage partners. But it's hard for it to be at the very top in a community that is doing so well in intellectually demanding professions. And then the real breakout of the Jewish community in the last couple hundred years was when they realized the goyim had actually shot by them in intellectual development while they were treading water in their little closed backwater. The folks/families leading the charge to engage with European intellectual developments, were not the rabbinate.

    Not at all. Literacy–that in the initial screen/cull to startup Ashkenazi, literacy at the recite the Torah level would be a selection factor giving you a good IQ at launch–has been proposed by lots of people including me. (JackD suggested even this might not be the case–you didn’t really have to be literate to do the necessary ritual recitation.)

    Literacy is a very low bar; people with Down’s Syndrome can learn how to read. I doubt that that had much of a eugenic effect.

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Kabala
    Of course historically literacy levels were much lower. It does make one wonder if those who did know how to read were necessarily the smartest or if a great degree of luck/chance/opportunity was needed.
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  182. @Steve Sailer
    Cohen is among the more common Ashkenazi surnames, but it's not particularly high-achieving by Jewish standards.

    I wonder if the Coen Brothers are descendants of some guy who changed the spelling of his name for social climbing reasons, the way my surname descends from some guy named Seiler (ropemaker) who became mayor of a small town in Switzerland and changed the spelling of his name to Sailer for snobbish purposes.

    In Britain, Smythes (a snobbish variant of Smith) really are more high achieving than Smiths.

    I don't know if Psmith actually exists or whether P.G. Wodehouse made it up.

    Aren’t names like Kohn, Cohn, Kahn, and Caan just other versions of Cohen?

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  183. syonredux says:
    @Svigor

    As I’ve repeatedly been arguing, Asian Americans are actually the most openly discriminated against group in American society today.
     
    A great reason to end immigration of Asians. Spare them the oppression, and ourselves the whining.

    As I’ve repeatedly been arguing, Asian Americans are actually the most openly discriminated against group in American society today.

    A great reason to end immigration of Asians. Spare them the oppression, and ourselves the whining.

    Here’s my rule for immigration: Don’t allow in anyone who can make a claim for discrimination based on ethnic/racial/religious grounds.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Alas, since Hart-Celler those are the only people we do let in. Something just a tad perverse about that.
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  184. @IHTG

    But it seems to be more common in Middle Eastern origin families in Israel than in European origin ones.
     
    A lot of the European ones are called Katz rather than Cohen. And then there's also Kagan/Kogan.

    Gazillion years ago I was interviewed at a small liberal arts college by a black man named Leslie Cohen. “Just like the Jews,” he said.

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  185. @utu
    Variants of Cohen

    Now and Forever — A Conversation with Israel Zangwill (New York: Robert M. McBride & Co., 1925)
    Zangwill--That is strange, for in every European country Jews are foremost among the leaders in all the arts.
    Roth--It is not strange at all. Jewish literary talent in America has been exhausted in the effort to disguise the name Cohen of which you may find in the New York Telephone Directory no less than twenty-four variations: Cohen, Cohn, Cone, Cunn, Curie, Coan, Coon, Cohene, Cane, Kohn, Kohne, Kohen, Kohene, Kuhn, Kuhne, Kun, Kunn, Koen, Konn, Coone, Cahn, Kone, Kann, and Kahn
     

    I’ve never seen a lot of these Cohen variations, yet one of the most well-known ones due to a pair of film-making brothers isn’t even on the list.

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  186. @slumber_j
    Yeah: Hispano-Americans are completely out of control in that regard. Just check out the names among random Major League players and compare them to real Spanish Christian names. I can think of no Saint Yasiel, Yadier, Asdrubal, Kendrys or even--if we're gonna get all technical about it--Jhonny.

    I can think of no Saint Yasiel, Yadier, Asdrubal, Kendrys or even–if we’re gonna get all technical about it–Jhonny.

    Jhonny is a shorted form of the Spanish name Jhonattan, as for example in the professional golfer Jhonattan Vegas. It is a somewhat phonetic (in Spanish) rendition of the Jewish name Yonatan which comes from the Old Testament. Jonathan was the best friend (?lover) of King David, an important Bronze Age chieftain in Jewish history.

    So not a saint’s name.

    Yasiel is a Spanish version of the biblical Jasiel = whom God made, and also one of King David’s cohorts.

    So not a saint’s name.

    Asdrubal would be a Spanish version of the name of the Carthaginian general Hasdrubal Barca who was the son of Hamilcar and brother of Hannibal. There is some suggestion that the city of Barcelona is named after this family, but scholars consider this to be a folk derivation.

    So not a Christian saint’s name either.

    Yadier is a popular Hispanic name with Jewish origins, compare to Yadira.

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  187. Coemgen says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Cohen is among the more common Ashkenazi surnames, but it's not particularly high-achieving by Jewish standards.

    I wonder if the Coen Brothers are descendants of some guy who changed the spelling of his name for social climbing reasons, the way my surname descends from some guy named Seiler (ropemaker) who became mayor of a small town in Switzerland and changed the spelling of his name to Sailer for snobbish purposes.

    In Britain, Smythes (a snobbish variant of Smith) really are more high achieving than Smiths.

    I don't know if Psmith actually exists or whether P.G. Wodehouse made it up.

    Some of the Cohens may actually be Cohans,

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  188. syonredux says:
    @Corn
    “Wales for example something like 30 surnames account for 90% of the population.”

    I read once in the Welsh Guards regiments of the Royal Army mail call or musters get interesting. So many Joneses for example it’s often “Private Jones Number 2, or Private Jones Number 9” etc

    I read once in the Welsh Guards regiments of the Royal Army mail call or musters get interesting. So many Joneses for example it’s often “Private Jones Number 2, or Private Jones Number 9” etc

    From Zulu:

    Pvt. William Jones: What’s he up to, 593?

    Pte. Robert Jones: Oh, I think he wants to be hero, 716.

    Cpl. Frederic Schiess, NNC: Haven’t you rednecks got names instead of numbers?

    Pte. Robert Jones: ‘Tis a Welsh regiment, man! Though there are some foreigners from England in it , mind. I am Jones from Bwlchgwyn, he is Jones from Builth Wells, and there are four more Joneses in C Company! Confusing, isn’t it, Dutchy?

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058777/quotes

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  189. Cortes says:
    @Corn
    “Wales for example something like 30 surnames account for 90% of the population.”

    I read once in the Welsh Guards regiments of the Royal Army mail call or musters get interesting. So many Joneses for example it’s often “Private Jones Number 2, or Private Jones Number 9” etc

    Nicknames (eke or eik names to which the n of the indefinite article became attached) are necessary in many places.
    Jimmy Sue (for his wife) to distinguish from ten other Jimmy Gardiners
    Black Angus (hair or temper) for the same reason.

    Or one guy called Eddie Gallagher (a “blow-in”) who was referred to by all as Eddie Barrett (wife’s surname).

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  190. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomm
    I wonder if Patel is one of the highest-income surnames in America at this point (again, measuring income only).

    Remember that many ultra-rich don't have to report their full income on their 1040, as it is shielded through structures before that. So this does not capture the income of the ultra-wealthy.

    How many Patels honestly report all their income?

    I stayed at a Patel owned hotel recently where I got to talking with the swarthy owner about his hi-fi setup at home. This guy had purchased, new and at only a modest discount from retail, a setup consisting of “Stereophile Class A Recommended Components ” costing more than the house he was living in. We talked about the technical issues for a minute and I brought up the cost issue, to which he responded that he bought stereo equipment with his cash income, and the house with railroad income (his facility did a lot of his business housing railcrews who go out to another location and back as soon as they have completed their rest period). He liked stereo equipment and watches because they are in the house and away from IRS eyes, and unlike cars aren’t licensed and titled.

    He had no idea what I did and wasn’t concerned that he was essentially sharing the fact he was skimming large amounts of cash off his business with someone who for all he knew might have been IRS, FBI or whatever.

    And really why shouldn’t he do that? Does he have any real investment in the American nation? Hell no.

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    • Replies: @anon
    Apple, Google, Microsoft all do that; it is called tax avoidance (move all IP generation to Ireland, produce "Software" in Puerto Rico etc.,); Some, being less sophisticated, just plain do tax evasion. It is a pretty fuzzy boundary though. Leona Helmsley, an aristocratic billionaire, made a pithy observation: "We don't pay taxes; only the little people pay taxes".
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  191. @anonymous
    Steve,
    did you ever square dance? Maybe your kids learned square dancing in school. Like many other Americans of your vintage, you may be part of an unwitting experiment.

    https://qz.com/1153516/americas-wholesome-square-dancing-tradition-is-a-tool-of-white-supremacy/

    So that’s why rap music sounds like square dance calling.

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  192. Coemgen says:
    @Verymuchalive

    Percy, such as the Hotspur in Shakespeare’s Henry IV Part 1, is a Norman surname, like Jane Austen’s Mr. Darcy. The Normans conquered Britain in 1066 and people with French Norman surnames remain over-represented in the betters jobs in Britain today. Some of that is likely due to name-changing, and I’m not sure how true that is in the U.S.

    But it remains a prestigious name. For example, when I moved to Chicago in 1982, Charles Percy was the Republican senator. He was mentioned as Presidential Timber from 1968 to 1988.

     
    The Normans did not conquer Britain in 1066, it was just England.
    But you have raised an important HBD point about the Percy family, though maybe you were unaware. The best way I can illustrate the point is to contrast them with the Campbell family. The head of the clan is the Duke of Argyll. From the C14th onwards, they expanded rapidly. Some of the clan were blood relative of the Duke, but as they expanded they absorbed clansfolk from other clans, who adopted the name Campbell. By the C17th the latter formed the overwhelming majority of the clan. By this time Campbell was a very common name. Add to that, there are Irish Campbells who have no connection to Scots Campbells whatsoever. Rather like the Scots and Irish Kennedys ( Kennedy is a much more common name in Scotland )
    By contrast, the Percy have always been a small Northumbrian clan. The head of the clan was and is the Duke of Northumberland. The Campbells basically tried to take over most of Argyll ( not good if you were a MacDonald ) whereas the Percys remained in the Alnwick-Warkworth area and left the other clans ( Heron, Collingwood, Cuthbert etc ) in place. I suspect that nearly all those born with the Percy surname are related to each other from the Middle Ages onwards. They are not numerous, but I have never met a poor one. They all seem to have affluent lifestyles. Indeed, one of them was even the Councillor of the Ward I lived in. As well as that, they all seemed to have similar discreet, well-mannered characteristics - not what you would expect from relatives of Harry Hotspur.

    The differences between" Mass Clans" and small, apparently related clans are often quite sharp. The former ( eg Campbells, MacDonalds etc ) have expanded by agglomeration. Comparatively few are related to each other or the main branch of the clan. They are a mixed bag of humanity.
    Small clans seem often to be formed of related persons. This is particularly noticeable with small, aristocratic clans like the Percys. Another example are the Mars, Marrs or Erskines. All three surnames are associated with the Earldom of Mar ( the World's oldest title ). Nearly all persons of these surnames are surmised to be related. As I said about the Percys, I've never met a poor one. And that goes for the ones who changed their names as well - like The Smiths' Johnny Marr, who changed his name from ( low class Irish ) Maher to ( aristocratic Scots ) Marr. Instant Surname Privilege !
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  193. @Nico
    Oriental countries do seem to have inherited a rather limited range of surnames compared with most Western countries, though it should be remembered that in Wales for example something like 30 surnames account for 90% of the population.

    The most likely explanation is that Asians have been running the last name system for the longest time. Probability favors the growth of the common names at the expense of the rare ones so these systems tend to end up with a few overwhelmingly common names.

    If a man has only daughters (or no children) his name doesn’t get passed to the next generation. Rare names are at a constant threat of disappearing. When a name dies because a man only had female offspring, the odds are it gets replaced by a common name, in fact the most likely replacement is the most common name in the culture. The more common a name is, the more likely it is that it is the name that takes over when another dies. Eventually any such last name system “degenerates” into a couple of common names that eat all the others.

    My last name has a few dozen people and it’s in two unrelated families. We didn’t use inherited last names in my home region until the Russians took over 200 years ago and my home region is full of unique last names that exist only there. (Mine is the name of the estate that my great-great-great-grandfather acquired; it was standard for landowners to pick the names of their property.) In some other parts of Finland where inherited last names have been used for much longer there is much more domination by a couple of common names.

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    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Nico
    Does make sense that the patriarchal surname tends to function similarly to the Y-chromosome. (Of course, the Welsh have a different explanation: they were forced to abandon their largely patronymic surnames in favor of fixed ones in the 19th century, and certain first names - which were subsequently modified and/or molded into surnames - were more common than others.)
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  194. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason
    Helen Shapiro had the misfortune to go on tour in 1963 and be upstaged by one of her supporting acts, four lads from Liverpool. Lennon and McCartney wrote a song called "Misery" for her, but she never recorded it.

    She continued in show business for many years, playing the role of Nancy in the London stage version of Oliver! and traveling for many years as a singer with jazzman Humphrey Littleton.

    Her autobiography, published in 1993, was entitled Walking Back to Happiness, the title of her greatest hit. Just as well she did not record Misery, really!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2fklppAAXs

    Humphrey Lyttelton, not Littleton.

    I only know because I read the once-famous collection of letters between his father and Rupert Hart-Davies, back in the day.

    They were not jazz fans – more inclined to Tennyson and Shakespeare.

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  195. Karl says:

    > Sailer is one of the more elite golfcourse surnames

    fixed it for you.

    Source: http://www.golfcourseindustry.com (“the voice for today’s superintendent!”)

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  196. Lurker says:
    @englishmike

    Isn’t that ‘Smythe’ rather than ‘Smythes’?
     
    No. Steve was using the plural: "Smythes...really are"...

    In Britain, Smythes (a snobbish variant of Smith) really are more high achieving than Smiths.
     

    Thanks, I see now.

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  197. @Achmed E. Newman
    How is Shen your surname, Mr. Yan? Do you write your name with your given name first and family name last like Americans? Frankly, I'm offended by your appropriation of our Western ways! Next thing you know, you'll be writing about rule-of-law, the Magna Carta, and the Constitution, or even taking tests without making an effort to obtain all the answers first. After that, it'll be cooking different types of meals for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and then writing with an alphabet that's shorter than 3,000 characters. For shame! Your ancestors are probably rolling over in their graves still dissipated ashes stuck in an eddy in the Huang He delta.

    I suspect more interesting than just looking at salary is also looking at what fields these people actually work in. Which groups of people in this country are disproportionately engaged in value creating STEM activities?
     
    It's the US Feral Government, Mr. Yan or Mr. Shen! What possible useful activities could any of those people on the list be doing?

    Asians–world champion cultural appropriators.

    Old Yan has even carefully observed our traditions of racial grievance and whining and learned to do it over trivial to non-existence stuff like a Jewish guy.

    Seriously old boy, if your kid can’t get into Harvard with his test prepped SAT scores and all that violin playing … bitch to the Jews in charge, not the rest of us.

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  198. Dmitry says:
    @Anonymous

    Cohen is among the more common Ashkenazi surnames, but it’s not particularly high-achieving by Jewish standards.

    I wonder if the Coen Brothers are descendants of some guy who changed the spelling of his name for social climbing reasons, the way my surname descends from some guy named Seiler (ropemaker) who became mayor of a small town in Switzerland and changed the spelling of his name to Sailer for snobbish purposes.

     

    Maybe, but there's an awful lot of "Cohen" variants to explain. Kohen, Kahane, Kagan, Cohn, Cohan, Cohane, Cohne, Cone, Kahn, Kaganovich, etc. It's basically "King" for Jews. Descendants of the priestly caste.

    http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/4454-cohen

    https://www.geni.com/projects/The-Cohen-Project/808

    Cohen, *Cohn, *Cowan, *Kagan, *Kaganov, *Kaganovich, *Kahane, *Kahn, *Kaplan, *Kogan, *Kohen, *Kohn, *Rapaport, *Rappaport, Kohnowski, Kogen, Kohan, Katz, Kahane, Kahin, Coffen, Cogan, Cahana, Koon, Conn, Cone, Cohnheim, Cohnfeld, Cahn, Cahen.
    See Cohen Surnames on Geni
     
    https://www.geni.com/surnames/Cohen

    It mainly looks like just different ways to transliterate the letters in the original Hebrew word (with vowels, without vowels, with different interpretations of the vowels, etc).

    The funny one there is Katz, which was formed from the initials of ‘Holy Priest’ (although written the other way round).

    Others are what happens when you translate the word into another language or add a suffix.

    There’s a reverse situation for Russian women’s surnames in Hebrew – where they usually lose their suffixes in Israel, to make it easier for Israelis that don’t understand the naming conventions. (And result sounds very eccentric to Russian ears).

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  199. prosa123 says: • Website
    @Kevin in Ohio
    Would there be a way to control for that? Most demographic data has a racial component. Though, anecdotally, ive never met a white Washington, or Jefferson, for that matter.

    Though, it’s interesting. My (white) wife’s maiden name was Davis. If she wore something with her surname on it she often received odd looks or even comments that, “Her daddy must be black.” Funny how it works. Most Davises I had met up to that point were white - squarely middle class white.

    “Though, anecdotally, ive never met a white Washington, or Jefferson, for that matter.”

    Stan Laurel’s real name was Arthur Stanley Jefferson.

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    • Replies: @Cortes
    The theatre or music hall (the Britannia Panopticon) in Glasgow’s Trongate, where Laurel made his stage debut, still exists and a band of enthusiasts are gradually reinstating it.

    Jefferson Sr owned a couple of music halls in the city during Stan’s childhood.


    https://www.britanniapanopticon.org

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  200. prosa123 says: • Website

    As a kid I was fascinated by the surname M’Sadoques. I knew a few people by that name. Something about the M-apostrophe just seemed weird.

    The name is French and is pronounced something like Massa-dokes.

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  201. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @rec1man
    I put in my surname, which is common among Tamil Brahmins, got 9 hits

    Average = $158 K
    Min = 99 k
    Max = 206 k

    Ran an experiment to see if there is any Brahmin privilege; seems to be none, though they are most numerous. In fact Vyshya (Businessmen) have privilege.

    Sharma: 133K (count 171), US + 50K
    Varma/Verma: 133K (65), US + 50K
    Gupta: 212K (129), US + 129K
    Das*: 130K (77), US + 47K

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    • Replies: @rec1man
    I ran Iyer ( Tamil Brahmin )
    count 26
    Average = 144k
    Max = $318 K
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  202. @Yan Shen
    Let's also not forget our uh good friend Ben Shapiro, aka The Hebrew Hammer.

    Let’s also not forget our uh good friend Ben Shapiro, aka The Hebrew Hammer.

    Let’s also not forget our uh good friend Ben Shapiro, aka The Hebrew Hammerhead Shark. TFIFY.

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  203. @Verymuchalive

    Percy, such as the Hotspur in Shakespeare’s Henry IV Part 1, is a Norman surname, like Jane Austen’s Mr. Darcy. The Normans conquered Britain in 1066 and people with French Norman surnames remain over-represented in the betters jobs in Britain today. Some of that is likely due to name-changing, and I’m not sure how true that is in the U.S.

    But it remains a prestigious name. For example, when I moved to Chicago in 1982, Charles Percy was the Republican senator. He was mentioned as Presidential Timber from 1968 to 1988.

     
    The Normans did not conquer Britain in 1066, it was just England.
    But you have raised an important HBD point about the Percy family, though maybe you were unaware. The best way I can illustrate the point is to contrast them with the Campbell family. The head of the clan is the Duke of Argyll. From the C14th onwards, they expanded rapidly. Some of the clan were blood relative of the Duke, but as they expanded they absorbed clansfolk from other clans, who adopted the name Campbell. By the C17th the latter formed the overwhelming majority of the clan. By this time Campbell was a very common name. Add to that, there are Irish Campbells who have no connection to Scots Campbells whatsoever. Rather like the Scots and Irish Kennedys ( Kennedy is a much more common name in Scotland )
    By contrast, the Percy have always been a small Northumbrian clan. The head of the clan was and is the Duke of Northumberland. The Campbells basically tried to take over most of Argyll ( not good if you were a MacDonald ) whereas the Percys remained in the Alnwick-Warkworth area and left the other clans ( Heron, Collingwood, Cuthbert etc ) in place. I suspect that nearly all those born with the Percy surname are related to each other from the Middle Ages onwards. They are not numerous, but I have never met a poor one. They all seem to have affluent lifestyles. Indeed, one of them was even the Councillor of the Ward I lived in. As well as that, they all seemed to have similar discreet, well-mannered characteristics - not what you would expect from relatives of Harry Hotspur.

    The differences between" Mass Clans" and small, apparently related clans are often quite sharp. The former ( eg Campbells, MacDonalds etc ) have expanded by agglomeration. Comparatively few are related to each other or the main branch of the clan. They are a mixed bag of humanity.
    Small clans seem often to be formed of related persons. This is particularly noticeable with small, aristocratic clans like the Percys. Another example are the Mars, Marrs or Erskines. All three surnames are associated with the Earldom of Mar ( the World's oldest title ). Nearly all persons of these surnames are surmised to be related. As I said about the Percys, I've never met a poor one. And that goes for the ones who changed their names as well - like The Smiths' Johnny Marr, who changed his name from ( low class Irish ) Maher to ( aristocratic Scots ) Marr. Instant Surname Privilege !

    I sort of knew Erskine Bowles (was poised to be a Big Deal at one time) from a country club.

    always thought that was an odd name but more fool I

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  204. @AnotherDad

    ... so if it isn’t a particularly prestigious surname it would seem to contradict both the thesis of this post and HBD explanations for Ashkenazi achievement.
     
    Not at all. Literacy--that in the initial screen/cull to startup Ashkenazi, literacy at the recite the Torah level would be a selection factor giving you a good IQ at launch--has been proposed by lots of people including me. (JackD suggested even this might not be the case--you didn't really have to be literate to do the necessary ritual recitation.)

    However, grinding through the centuries what's really going to be selective is economic performance. Do you want to marry your really hot/healthy/fertile daughter to the rabbi's boy, or the son of the successfully banker or grain trader? All else even close to equal, my daughter's going with B.

    It's actually the economic benefit of IQ that will drive selection--better survival of children, and ergo better mates to have children with.

    The Jewish community can through monetary support and bestowing social status drive up the relative standing of the rabbi and appeal of the young rabbis as marriage partners. But it's hard for it to be at the very top in a community that is doing so well in intellectually demanding professions. And then the real breakout of the Jewish community in the last couple hundred years was when they realized the goyim had actually shot by them in intellectual development while they were treading water in their little closed backwater. The folks/families leading the charge to engage with European intellectual developments, were not the rabbinate.

    Rabbinic and wealthy families were largely the same families for hundreds of years up until emancipation. As it happens, before emancipation and the advent of the “pulpit Rabbi”, the rabbinate was a much more demanding intellectual endeavor which required the mastery of a vast corpus of law and text.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Rabbinic and wealthy families were largely the same families for hundreds of years up until emancipation
     
    Any statistical as opposed to anecdotal evidence?

    As it happens, before emancipation and the advent of the “pulpit Rabbi”, the rabbinate was a much more demanding intellectual endeavor which required the mastery of a vast corpus of law and text.
     
    Eh.
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  205. @Yan Shen
    Not bad, average Shen federal salary comes out to $115,771.72, despite Shen not being a particularly common Chinese surname! Unfortunately though, I doubt this represents any kind of privilege. As I've repeatedly been arguing, Asian Americans are actually the most openly discriminated against group in American society today.

    I suspect more interesting than just looking at salary is also looking at what fields these people actually work in. Which groups of people in this country are disproportionately engaged in value creating STEM activities?

    As I’ve repeatedly been arguing, Asian Americans are actually the most openly discriminated against group in American society today.

    Right, because Asian American life expectancy is going down, and Asian Americans are the object of the white privilege Maoist struggle sessions, and Asian American don’t make as much money as white Americans.

    Come on, you are a member of a privileged overclass. Your repeated arguing is nothing more than argument bereft of facts, and devoid of reasoning.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Pretty much the same thing as with the chosenites, and just look how well it's worked out for them! Makes sense that Asians would seek to emulate the most privileged subgroup in the nation, and Asians are very good at copying.

    This also explains why Jews in charge of Ivy League admissions might seek to limit the flood of Asian applicants. Any further increase is likely to come at the expense of Jews themselves, since Anglo types have been reduced down to a select few athletes along with a tiny number of legacies. Because most legacies are now Jewish too.

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  206. @Verymuchalive

    Percy, such as the Hotspur in Shakespeare’s Henry IV Part 1, is a Norman surname, like Jane Austen’s Mr. Darcy. The Normans conquered Britain in 1066 and people with French Norman surnames remain over-represented in the betters jobs in Britain today. Some of that is likely due to name-changing, and I’m not sure how true that is in the U.S.

    But it remains a prestigious name. For example, when I moved to Chicago in 1982, Charles Percy was the Republican senator. He was mentioned as Presidential Timber from 1968 to 1988.

     
    The Normans did not conquer Britain in 1066, it was just England.
    But you have raised an important HBD point about the Percy family, though maybe you were unaware. The best way I can illustrate the point is to contrast them with the Campbell family. The head of the clan is the Duke of Argyll. From the C14th onwards, they expanded rapidly. Some of the clan were blood relative of the Duke, but as they expanded they absorbed clansfolk from other clans, who adopted the name Campbell. By the C17th the latter formed the overwhelming majority of the clan. By this time Campbell was a very common name. Add to that, there are Irish Campbells who have no connection to Scots Campbells whatsoever. Rather like the Scots and Irish Kennedys ( Kennedy is a much more common name in Scotland )
    By contrast, the Percy have always been a small Northumbrian clan. The head of the clan was and is the Duke of Northumberland. The Campbells basically tried to take over most of Argyll ( not good if you were a MacDonald ) whereas the Percys remained in the Alnwick-Warkworth area and left the other clans ( Heron, Collingwood, Cuthbert etc ) in place. I suspect that nearly all those born with the Percy surname are related to each other from the Middle Ages onwards. They are not numerous, but I have never met a poor one. They all seem to have affluent lifestyles. Indeed, one of them was even the Councillor of the Ward I lived in. As well as that, they all seemed to have similar discreet, well-mannered characteristics - not what you would expect from relatives of Harry Hotspur.

    The differences between" Mass Clans" and small, apparently related clans are often quite sharp. The former ( eg Campbells, MacDonalds etc ) have expanded by agglomeration. Comparatively few are related to each other or the main branch of the clan. They are a mixed bag of humanity.
    Small clans seem often to be formed of related persons. This is particularly noticeable with small, aristocratic clans like the Percys. Another example are the Mars, Marrs or Erskines. All three surnames are associated with the Earldom of Mar ( the World's oldest title ). Nearly all persons of these surnames are surmised to be related. As I said about the Percys, I've never met a poor one. And that goes for the ones who changed their names as well - like The Smiths' Johnny Marr, who changed his name from ( low class Irish ) Maher to ( aristocratic Scots ) Marr. Instant Surname Privilege !

    Percy? Their less-well-provided-for (ox-bothering pedestrian scum) kin claim the names of, among others I believe, Reed (of Redesdale and Otterburn, opposed in perpetuity to the names of Elliot (double L, double T, whatever), and Armstrong (of the Moon), never mind Halls (not particularly dangerous, unlike the aforementioned two). And possibly Charlton (greatest living Englishman).

    I remain to be corrected, basically because the northern barbarians are of little consequence, and much of a muchness.

    Try Gascoigne or, I dunno, Musgrave, Dacre or Clifford, they’re of a similar vintage and locality, and the descents should map out similarly (relentless gentry interbreeding). Interesting experiment. Do brits fuck about carelessly with their surnames like foreigners do? Inalienable surnames only became a thing apres les Normands, mainly for tax reasons. Only yDNA will provide the answers, I suspect.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Didn’t the northern barbarians keep the even more barbaric Scots away from the midlands and south?
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  207. @Old Palo Altan
    If "Smith" is common socially, then "Smithson", the mere son of a smith, should be even more so.
    But in fact it is perhaps the grandest English name of all, at least once it was transmogrified into "Percy" by the heir to the eponymous estates and, ultimately, the first Duke of Northumberland of the third creation.
    And, of course, an illegitimate son of the house gave us the Smithsonian.

    And, of course, an illegitimate son of the house gave us the Smithsonian.

    That bastard!

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  208. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    OT: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-07/wikileaks-publishes-michael-wolffs-entire-sold-out-trump-book-pdf

    I'm with Nikki Haley who told little Georgie S that she hadn't and wouldn't read it.

    Great to see that DJT has told both the UN and Pakistan to go pound sand.

    Fact or fiction, his narrative style is damn riveting. Beware, very unputdownable. I want to read Rupert Murdoch book now.

    Also, besides that John Boehner episode, nobody has said one word in rebuttal.

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  209. Cortes says:
    @Zachary Latif
    I had googled Margaret Thatcher since I remembered her maiden name was Roberts (Welsh patrynomic & all that). I was curious to see if she had any recent Welsh forbears but instead shockingly enough her father's grandmother was Irish Catholic (Sullivan no less). This is of course the Iron Lady we are speaking of who survived the IRA and it was a fact I had never known about.

    It prompts me to reflect that despite the Famine & pogroms (which were horrific historical experiences) one of the main gripes of Irish Catholic & Jewish communities is that to socially advance they had to assimilate into WASP society in the 19th & 20th centuries.

    In those cases assimilation meant giving up a particularly tenaciously held religious-cultural identity that had survived so much and to somehow let it go for societal advancement seemed churlish, almost cowardly. It's interesting that all discrimination simply melted away when these two groups gave up the Pope & the Synagogue so it wasn't really founded on race (an Anglo-Irish was simply a Protestant Irishman).

    Finally Jews in Britain & the Irish in America seem much more culturally quiescient than their trans-Atlantic counterparts. That may be because of the preponderance of White identity in the US (which Irish Americans are comfortable with) and English-British in the UK (which British Jews but not the Irish partake in; a historical insult has been "West British").

    “Soup takers” is worse.

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  210. @yaqub the mad scientist
    My great uncle roomed with him at Sewanee. Lanterns on the Levee is a good book.

    Lanterns on the Levee

    with him at Sewanee

    That was an elite worth the appelation, though I don’t suppose they were much tested…

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  211. @Sgt. Joe Friday
    "For example, Hamilton is the best educated common surname in Britain and it’s the name of the most expensive ticket Broadway musical of all time in the U.S."

    And it's also the name of Judge Reinhold's character in Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

    Umm, way to bury the lede. Jennifer Jason Leigh played Stacey Hamilton.

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  212. Cortes says:
    @prosa123
    "Though, anecdotally, ive never met a white Washington, or Jefferson, for that matter."

    Stan Laurel's real name was Arthur Stanley Jefferson.

    The theatre or music hall (the Britannia Panopticon) in Glasgow’s Trongate, where Laurel made his stage debut, still exists and a band of enthusiasts are gradually reinstating it.

    Jefferson Sr owned a couple of music halls in the city during Stan’s childhood.

    https://www.britanniapanopticon.org

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  213. @guest
    My surname is a place-name, and I am taken to understand ultimately derives from "shelf" in Old English (though I'm not English) and "enclosure." Which means I don't know what.

    Does it signify high, low, or inbetweeny status? I dunno. If the name were distinguished, I'd probably have heard more about my co-namers. As it is, I'm only familiar with a couple of celebrities with my name. Neither of whom are very accomplished, though one is hot. Or at least used to be.

    That would be where their house was. In relation to the administrative center (drunk cleric in a hut).

    Up on an escarpment, where they’d cleared out a plot (being remarkably wet and temperate, England was always infested with constantly-encroaching trees, until some bugger invented the iron/steel furnace, and sheep). Also they’d be Saxons, or “Danes” (i.e. weekings), or their ignoble descendants. Not Welsh, Scots, Irish or Flemings.
    Backbone of England, and don’t you forget it.

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  214. Gordo says:

    Yep I’m mildly privileged, only to be expected for a Scottish name, wow your Veterans Affairs people are well paid!

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  215. @Logan
    How many full time arrow makers (arrowsmiths?) can there have been?

    More than you might think. During a battle of the Hundred Years War the English army might shoot off ten thousand plus arrows each minute.

    An arrow takes a LOT more time to make than a cartridge, especially when made by hand.

    Also, it is probable most arrows of the time were made by farmers during the winter slow season. Not necessarily full-time fletchers at all.

    Stringers, Fletchers, Bowman (-men). There’s a quiverfull of those names, and would take some digging, due to dialect changes and the forgetting of trades like the geezers who supplied the (horn) nocks and tips, or the bluebell-root glue for the flights, or the quiver-makers themselves (poss. a side-guild of sadlers, or scabbard-makers).
    Just be assured that it was a major trade, on a level with masons or carters. And if it weren’t for them, c’est certain que je vous addresserez-ez-ez en francais (or whatever their monkey-gibber is, correctly).

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    • Replies: @Logan
    Quite right.
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  216. Dan Hayes says:

    In The Quiet Man movie Barry Fitzgerald refers to Cohan and specifically says it’s not Cohen!

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  217. benjaminl says:

    Just to take the median, since it’s easier:

    WASPy names

    Eliot $137,000 (n=1)
    Winthrop $131,000 (n=3)
    Chafee $109,000 (n=1)
    Berkeley $98,000 (n=9)
    Dana $88,000 (n=38)
    Putnam $88,000 (n=77)
    Peabody $83,000 (n=22)
    Thayer $83,000 (n=44)
    Lowell $82,000 (n=23)
    Cushing $82,000 (n=29)
    Delano $81,000 (n=13)
    Forbes $78,000 (n=163)
    Morse $78,000 (n=170)
    Choate $74,000 (n=34)
    Endicott $65,000 (n=14)
    Coolidge $46,000 (n=11)

    German names

    Snyder $80,000 (n=625)
    Huffman $77,000 (n=156)

    Irish names

    Flanagan $93,000 (n=123)
    Sweeney $84,000 (n=231)
    Callahan $84,000 (n=203)
    Doyle $81,000 (n=283)
    McGuire $80,000 (n=237)

    Black names

    Cooks $78,000 (n=75)
    Shabazz $77,000 (n=23)
    Broadnax $77,000 (n=27)
    Boykins $72,000 (n=25)
    Gadsden $71,000 (n=17)
    Ivery $69,000 (n=14)
    Smalls $66,000 (n=73)
    Pettaway $65,000 (n=12)
    Gadson $65,000 (n=29)
    Wigfall $63,000 (n=15)
    Fluellen $55,000 (n=12)

    I wonder about the restriction of range / selection bias.

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    • Replies: @Couch Scientist

    I wonder about the restriction of range / selection bias.

     

    True, there is probably a squashing effect. You can probably imagine that the representatives of surnames toward the bottom are probably doing quite well in the eyes of their family members, whereas father Shapiro rolls his eyes at his son's choice of choosing a career as a top attorney in a federal agency.

    Just to take the median, since it’s easier:
     
    Maybe you have already done this, but I would also throw out the zeros because I can't imagine that OPM uses them in its calculations.

    -Couch Scientist
    , @Anonym
    Has someone with more time than me written a Perl script or the like to go through a dictionary of surnames and get the number, mean and median salary of all of these surnames?

    Realistically you want to apply some sort of downward pressure to the small sample size surnames, as it's the same basic thing as high ratings in Amazon on small sample sizes. (Of course, Amazon keeps that there to encourage more people to try and rate the highest rated items, as ultimately finding better stuff is what will drive their sales, at the expense of a few guinea pigs who knew what they were getting into.)
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  218. Of Irish surnames, my intuition had been that the Daly name punches over its weight. I also felt the same way about Higgins.

    Backed up on Daly by the OPM data: 143 Daly feds average 98,788 or +$16,000.

    Not so much on the Higgins, a more common Irish name. 314 federal Higgins average $85,526 for a modest factor or +$3000.

    Compare to a less common Irish name, that was once Irish-American royalty: Meagher (Thomas Meagher). 21 federal Meaghers averaging $82,532, which is a basically the fed average (factor of 0).

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    • Replies: @Karl
    217 Couch Scientist > Backed up on Daly


    There is a Daly California. It is about as Filipino as Manila. It ALSO happens to contain the HQ of the American branch of the Karaite stream of Jews, who never accepted the new-fangled Talmud. They still go by second Temple rulings from Herod's days.

    the people who want to say that today's Jews have nothing-to-do with Judeans of yore, cannot seem to explain away the Karaites. They have an even MORE embarrasment to explain away the Samaritan Jews, who actually never went into diaspora at all. They're still here in their two villages. Well, the western one became engulfed by today's city of Holon, which is really part of Greater Metro Tel Aviv, as far as the bus drivers are concerned.

    The Samaritans still sacrifice a lamb at Passover, and use the same pre-Aramaic alphabet that King Solomon collected taxes in.
    , @Travis
    So many African-Americans have Irish-sounding last names -- Eddie Murphy, Isaac Hayes, Mariah Carey, Dizzy Gillespie, Toni Morrison and some notable Black athletes such as Shaquille O'Neal, Randall Cunningham, Donovan McNabb, Karl Malone, Steve McNair, Steph Curry....
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  219. @jesse helms think-alike
    Cohen is a name that has a hebrew meaning unlike some of the german yiddish jewish names:

    Cohen is a Hebrew name (כהן) which literally means "priest" (mostly of the Jewish religion). It's also a common Jewish surname which represents an ancient biblical priestly heritage.
     

    from babynamewizrd.com

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples. The number of present day Smiths cannot correspond to the percentage of actual working blacksmiths in the population at the time surnames were adopted. (how many blacksmiths does a society need?) It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.

    Similarly the name Fletcher meaning arrow maker while uncommon is still less rare than one would think. How many full time arrow makers (arrowsmiths?) can there have been?

    The intersection of linguistics and actual multi-layered meaning of words and names is a fascinating topic.

    For example the word safe for a strong box is a seemingly mundane word until you realize that having a safe to store your valuables makes you feel "safe" connecting the two meanings of the word.

    Between my own name and the regular, non-contractured Johnson: Son of John may be more common than Smith.

    Son-of-John is of course, what the women claim, they could well be son-of-robert.

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  220. OT–a titbit that might be of marginal interest, (think Matthew Yglesias, polar bear hunting) Conan on living in not-yet-hip Williamsburg, Brooklyn:

    0:26 – I was shot several times when I lived there [...] I took’em in the shoulder

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  221. @AndrewR
    Upon further reflection, I am forced to conclude that socialists and communists probably tend to be extremely stupid. I can't think of any explanation besides sheer stupidity for why they haven't made Paris Hilton their poster girl for everything wrong with our current socioeconomic system, because she basically does embody everything wrong with our society. In an ideal world, given her personal attributes, she would earn her bread through cleaning toilets. Unfortunately, she is very wealthy and famous, and this is 100% due to a combination of being born into a wealthy family and fitting a socially desirable (among a significant portion of the population who inexplicably seek to emulate her) archetype of the attractive, slutty, airhead, blonde mean girl. Any reasonable person would agree that she is the epitome of highly dysfunctional societal priorities and toxic socioeconomic incentive structures, yet leftists are silent about her.

    She is kind of forgotten now since the Kardashians came along (which somehow is about a decade ago by now – they have managed to maintain fame for a long time).

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  222. There is also another interesting site that people might be interested in. The U.S. Census Bureau has an Excel spreadsheet that anyone can download showing all surnames that occurred at least 100 times in the 2010 Census, along with the racial distribution of those names:

    https://www.census.gov/topics/population/genealogy/data/2010_surnames.html

    Out of curiosity, I checked some of the surnames that have come up on this thread, to see how many people held those names, along with their racial breakdown (I am showing the percentages that are black or white since these constitute most of the people showing these names, but other backgrounds are shown as well):

    Cohen – 89,091 people, 88.89% white, 5.97% black
    Huntington – 7,306 people, 88.17% white, 4.24% black
    Jackson – 708,099 people, 39.89% white, 53.04% black
    Jefferson – 55,179 people, 17.45% white, 74.24% black
    Percy – 4,226 people, 67.49% white, 21.77% black
    Sailer – 2,520 people, 93.61% white, 0.79% black
    Shapiro – 24,335 people, 96.05% white, 0.35% black
    Smith – 2,442,977 people, 70.9% white, 23.11% black (the most common surname)
    Washington – 177,386 people, 5.17% white, 87.53% black

    Some variations of these names are also interesting. For example, there were 159 McWashingtons in the 2010 Census (4.4% white, 86.16% black). There were also 571 people reporting the last name Cohens (with an ‘s’) (5.08% white, 86.34% black).

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Jim Cohen played seven years in the baseball Negro Leagues:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Cohen_(baseball)

    , @James Kabala
    It is interesting to see how even fairly common surnames (except for the really big ones) have barely enough people to fill a baseball stadium. I thought a mere 55,000 for Jefferson seemed low, but in the vicinity are several other surnames I would have considered fairly common, such as Davenport, Cameron, Hood, Randall, Kirk, Skinner, and Bradford.
    , @Intelligent Dasein
    There's some funny juxtapositions on that list. For instance, what are the odds that Mason and Dixon would end up right next to each other (169 and 170)?

    There's also the curious case that Miranda and Lambert are neighbors (333 and 332).
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Some variations of these names are also interesting. For example, there were 159 McWashingtons in the 2010 Census (4.4% white, 86.16% black).
     
    White Washingtons are unusual enough that I had to see how Hollywood lyricist Ned Washington got the name. Turns out his grandfather emigrated from Ireland. I doubt "Washington" was his name over there.

    But the Irish are white now, so they don't have to use subterfuges like "Mc".
    , @James Kabala
    It is interesting to put in surnames known mainly because of one celebrity and learn just how rare they are. We have 183 Malkoviches, 146 Zellwegers, and 109 Vonneguts. Names that fail to hit 100 at all include Belichick, Kardashian, and both Sajak and Trebek (of course the latter is really from Canada).
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  223. @Achmed E. Newman
    Try typing in "Soros", or one of its early variants, like "Beelzebub ".

    Try typing in “Soros”, or one of its early variants, like “Beelzebub “.

    Considering that Soros is an Esperanto name, how do others of that “ethnicity” perform? Are they citizens of the world?

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    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    Schwartz. Prononounced "Fronkenshteen!" Gyorgy Schchchvvarrttartz. Guy's a reg'lar mystery, like Cap'n Bob Maxwell, or 'Tiny' Rowland. Or the "Belgian widow" who funded Tony Blair and friend Mandelson.

    Alan Whicker told a tale about finding a high-performance reichsauto abandoned at Anzio (2nd battle). Wahey! The dog's! Let's go, full Clarkson on the pedal!
    Annoyed by its sluggish and gutless response he popped the trunk (boot) and discovered it was encumbered by a very large number of bullion bars, so he britishly turned it in to the top brass (US).

    Similar yarns have been relayed to me over many decades, by people who were actually dicking about in mid-forties Europe, busily avoiding their intended fate. I wonder what happened to it all? Gyorgy?

    Wife's uncle never found any. Got brewed up by blue-on-blue (US) naval fire while he was farting about in his tank in a coastal town nearby. First action. Them's the breaks.
    , @MEH 0910, @Achmed E. Newman

    Considering that Soros is an Esperanto name, how do others of that “ethnicity” perform? Are they citizens of the world?
     
    Yes, and lots of them are dual citizens. at that. They carry another passport to their other homeland down below.

    Thanks, that's all I got for the morning. Try the new Macron post, tastes like frog. Don't forget to tip your host.
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  224. @Indiana Jack
    There is also another interesting site that people might be interested in. The U.S. Census Bureau has an Excel spreadsheet that anyone can download showing all surnames that occurred at least 100 times in the 2010 Census, along with the racial distribution of those names:

    https://www.census.gov/topics/population/genealogy/data/2010_surnames.html

    Out of curiosity, I checked some of the surnames that have come up on this thread, to see how many people held those names, along with their racial breakdown (I am showing the percentages that are black or white since these constitute most of the people showing these names, but other backgrounds are shown as well):

    Cohen - 89,091 people, 88.89% white, 5.97% black
    Huntington - 7,306 people, 88.17% white, 4.24% black
    Jackson - 708,099 people, 39.89% white, 53.04% black
    Jefferson - 55,179 people, 17.45% white, 74.24% black
    Percy - 4,226 people, 67.49% white, 21.77% black
    Sailer - 2,520 people, 93.61% white, 0.79% black
    Shapiro - 24,335 people, 96.05% white, 0.35% black
    Smith - 2,442,977 people, 70.9% white, 23.11% black (the most common surname)
    Washington - 177,386 people, 5.17% white, 87.53% black

    Some variations of these names are also interesting. For example, there were 159 McWashingtons in the 2010 Census (4.4% white, 86.16% black). There were also 571 people reporting the last name Cohens (with an 's') (5.08% white, 86.34% black).

    Jim Cohen played seven years in the baseball Negro Leagues:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Cohen_(baseball)

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    None of those was him, as he was on the road during the census, on a series against the Toledo Mudhens. Those hits were from another small subset of COBS-kids, the poor bastards.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Well, hell, I assumed you erudite folks on here would just know what that meant. I guess we can't all be hip to the current health-care terminology.

    C.O.B.S. = Children Of Bad Spellers

    /pre-emptive reply

    , @RJA
    I once knew an Indonesian kid with the surname Cohen. When asked if he's of Jewish descent he got super defensive, hehe.

    Definitely there were a good amount of Dutch Jews involved in trade with the East Indies from the get-go, and some must have settled and assimilated. How the hell else could his name been Cohen?!
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  225. @unit472
    It would be hard to think of more famous surnames than those of American mafioso or Italian artists but I am not aware if Italian names bear any relation to social status/origins. Any Italians know?

    I suspect that Italian noble names such as Medici, Sforza, Orisini, Borghese are very rare in the United States. I actually went to college with someone named Medici, but never heard of any of the others here.

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    • Replies: @James Kabala
    Backed up by Indiana Jack's fascinating link -

    3,055 Orsinis, 884 Sforzas, 871 Medicis, 345 Borgheses.
    , @Anonymous
    I knew an Orsini years ago who looked just like the Orsini pope, Benedict XIII .
    He ran a pipe and cigar store. Had an absolutely imperious manner about him.
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  226. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @njguy73

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples.
     
    How many Smiths were originally Schmidts, Lefebvres, Ferraros, Ferreros, Smitses, Goffs, or Kovacs?

    Note: Commenter Jonathan Mason stated the same in Comment #40.

    I descend from Schmidts who changed to Smith upon arriving in the 1850s.

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  227. @James Kabala
    I suspect that Italian noble names such as Medici, Sforza, Orisini, Borghese are very rare in the United States. I actually went to college with someone named Medici, but never heard of any of the others here.

    Backed up by Indiana Jack’s fascinating link -

    3,055 Orsinis, 884 Sforzas, 871 Medicis, 345 Borgheses.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Five federal Medici average, $126,599.60. That's pretty noble! Even higher than a Shapiro, but of course the sample size is small.

    No feds listed for the others.

    -Couch Scientist
    , @prosa123
    I've known people named Orsini and Borghese.
    , @Hare Krishna
    How many Viscontis?
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  228. @Indiana Jack
    There is also another interesting site that people might be interested in. The U.S. Census Bureau has an Excel spreadsheet that anyone can download showing all surnames that occurred at least 100 times in the 2010 Census, along with the racial distribution of those names:

    https://www.census.gov/topics/population/genealogy/data/2010_surnames.html

    Out of curiosity, I checked some of the surnames that have come up on this thread, to see how many people held those names, along with their racial breakdown (I am showing the percentages that are black or white since these constitute most of the people showing these names, but other backgrounds are shown as well):

    Cohen - 89,091 people, 88.89% white, 5.97% black
    Huntington - 7,306 people, 88.17% white, 4.24% black
    Jackson - 708,099 people, 39.89% white, 53.04% black
    Jefferson - 55,179 people, 17.45% white, 74.24% black
    Percy - 4,226 people, 67.49% white, 21.77% black
    Sailer - 2,520 people, 93.61% white, 0.79% black
    Shapiro - 24,335 people, 96.05% white, 0.35% black
    Smith - 2,442,977 people, 70.9% white, 23.11% black (the most common surname)
    Washington - 177,386 people, 5.17% white, 87.53% black

    Some variations of these names are also interesting. For example, there were 159 McWashingtons in the 2010 Census (4.4% white, 86.16% black). There were also 571 people reporting the last name Cohens (with an 's') (5.08% white, 86.34% black).

    It is interesting to see how even fairly common surnames (except for the really big ones) have barely enough people to fill a baseball stadium. I thought a mere 55,000 for Jefferson seemed low, but in the vicinity are several other surnames I would have considered fairly common, such as Davenport, Cameron, Hood, Randall, Kirk, Skinner, and Bradford.

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    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    Davenport and Kirk are very Lancashire, and almost certainly Salford Hundred. Kirks in Bolton/Bury area, D'ports to the SW. Bradfords are from anywhere except Bradford (Yorks). But not too far away.
    In the way that Darbysheers (our noble friend J Derbyshire for example), are not from Co. Derby, but also heavily Lancs (Worsley/Eccles mostly), or the Black Country (contained no Blacks at the time, trust me on this. First lesson: Britain is weird. Always was, always will be. Just close your eyes and relax ...).
    Otherwise they wouldn't be called Derbyshire, because it wouldn't make sense.
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  229. @benjaminl
    Just to take the median, since it's easier:

    WASPy names

    Eliot $137,000 (n=1)
    Winthrop $131,000 (n=3)
    Chafee $109,000 (n=1)
    Berkeley $98,000 (n=9)
    Dana $88,000 (n=38)
    Putnam $88,000 (n=77)
    Peabody $83,000 (n=22)
    Thayer $83,000 (n=44)
    Lowell $82,000 (n=23)
    Cushing $82,000 (n=29)
    Delano $81,000 (n=13)
    Forbes $78,000 (n=163)
    Morse $78,000 (n=170)
    Choate $74,000 (n=34)
    Endicott $65,000 (n=14)
    Coolidge $46,000 (n=11)

    German names

    Snyder $80,000 (n=625)
    Huffman $77,000 (n=156)

    Irish names

    Flanagan $93,000 (n=123)
    Sweeney $84,000 (n=231)
    Callahan $84,000 (n=203)
    Doyle $81,000 (n=283)
    McGuire $80,000 (n=237)

    Black names

    Cooks $78,000 (n=75)
    Shabazz $77,000 (n=23)
    Broadnax $77,000 (n=27)
    Boykins $72,000 (n=25)
    Gadsden $71,000 (n=17)
    Ivery $69,000 (n=14)
    Smalls $66,000 (n=73)
    Pettaway $65,000 (n=12)
    Gadson $65,000 (n=29)
    Wigfall $63,000 (n=15)
    Fluellen $55,000 (n=12)


    I wonder about the restriction of range / selection bias.

    I wonder about the restriction of range / selection bias.

    True, there is probably a squashing effect. You can probably imagine that the representatives of surnames toward the bottom are probably doing quite well in the eyes of their family members, whereas father Shapiro rolls his eyes at his son’s choice of choosing a career as a top attorney in a federal agency.

    Just to take the median, since it’s easier:

    Maybe you have already done this, but I would also throw out the zeros because I can’t imagine that OPM uses them in its calculations.

    -Couch Scientist

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  230. @syonredux

    Not at all. Literacy–that in the initial screen/cull to startup Ashkenazi, literacy at the recite the Torah level would be a selection factor giving you a good IQ at launch–has been proposed by lots of people including me. (JackD suggested even this might not be the case–you didn’t really have to be literate to do the necessary ritual recitation.)
     
    Literacy is a very low bar; people with Down's Syndrome can learn how to read. I doubt that that had much of a eugenic effect.

    Of course historically literacy levels were much lower. It does make one wonder if those who did know how to read were necessarily the smartest or if a great degree of luck/chance/opportunity was needed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    A hundred years ago, even many peasants would enjoy reading the bible. While reading this book would be an accomplishment that would be a struggle today for many university graduates, and not due to lack of intelligence.
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  231. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @James Kabala
    Backed up by Indiana Jack's fascinating link -

    3,055 Orsinis, 884 Sforzas, 871 Medicis, 345 Borgheses.

    Five federal Medici average, $126,599.60. That’s pretty noble! Even higher than a Shapiro, but of course the sample size is small.

    No feds listed for the others.

    -Couch Scientist

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  232. @Reg Cæsar

    Try typing in “Soros”, or one of its early variants, like “Beelzebub “.
     
    Considering that Soros is an Esperanto name, how do others of that "ethnicity" perform? Are they citizens of the world?

    Schwartz. Prononounced “Fronkenshteen!” Gyorgy Schchchvvarrttartz. Guy’s a reg’lar mystery, like Cap’n Bob Maxwell, or ‘Tiny’ Rowland. Or the “Belgian widow” who funded Tony Blair and friend Mandelson.

    Alan Whicker told a tale about finding a high-performance reichsauto abandoned at Anzio (2nd battle). Wahey! The dog’s! Let’s go, full Clarkson on the pedal!
    Annoyed by its sluggish and gutless response he popped the trunk (boot) and discovered it was encumbered by a very large number of bullion bars, so he britishly turned it in to the top brass (US).

    Similar yarns have been relayed to me over many decades, by people who were actually dicking about in mid-forties Europe, busily avoiding their intended fate. I wonder what happened to it all? Gyorgy?

    Wife’s uncle never found any. Got brewed up by blue-on-blue (US) naval fire while he was farting about in his tank in a coastal town nearby. First action. Them’s the breaks.

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  233. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @James Kabala
    I suspect that Italian noble names such as Medici, Sforza, Orisini, Borghese are very rare in the United States. I actually went to college with someone named Medici, but never heard of any of the others here.

    I knew an Orsini years ago who looked just like the Orsini pope, Benedict XIII .
    He ran a pipe and cigar store. Had an absolutely imperious manner about him.

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  234. @Indiana Jack
    There is also another interesting site that people might be interested in. The U.S. Census Bureau has an Excel spreadsheet that anyone can download showing all surnames that occurred at least 100 times in the 2010 Census, along with the racial distribution of those names:

    https://www.census.gov/topics/population/genealogy/data/2010_surnames.html

    Out of curiosity, I checked some of the surnames that have come up on this thread, to see how many people held those names, along with their racial breakdown (I am showing the percentages that are black or white since these constitute most of the people showing these names, but other backgrounds are shown as well):

    Cohen - 89,091 people, 88.89% white, 5.97% black
    Huntington - 7,306 people, 88.17% white, 4.24% black
    Jackson - 708,099 people, 39.89% white, 53.04% black
    Jefferson - 55,179 people, 17.45% white, 74.24% black
    Percy - 4,226 people, 67.49% white, 21.77% black
    Sailer - 2,520 people, 93.61% white, 0.79% black
    Shapiro - 24,335 people, 96.05% white, 0.35% black
    Smith - 2,442,977 people, 70.9% white, 23.11% black (the most common surname)
    Washington - 177,386 people, 5.17% white, 87.53% black

    Some variations of these names are also interesting. For example, there were 159 McWashingtons in the 2010 Census (4.4% white, 86.16% black). There were also 571 people reporting the last name Cohens (with an 's') (5.08% white, 86.34% black).

    There’s some funny juxtapositions on that list. For instance, what are the odds that Mason and Dixon would end up right next to each other (169 and 170)?

    There’s also the curious case that Miranda and Lambert are neighbors (333 and 332).

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    • Replies: @James Kabala
    I don't remember any facts about songwriter Carole Bayer Sager other than that she exists, but her names are also back to back (3389 and 3390). I wonder if she ever wrote for Julio Iglesias. (Iglesias is just ahead, tied for 3387 with Hiller.)
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  235. @Indiana Jack
    There is also another interesting site that people might be interested in. The U.S. Census Bureau has an Excel spreadsheet that anyone can download showing all surnames that occurred at least 100 times in the 2010 Census, along with the racial distribution of those names:

    https://www.census.gov/topics/population/genealogy/data/2010_surnames.html

    Out of curiosity, I checked some of the surnames that have come up on this thread, to see how many people held those names, along with their racial breakdown (I am showing the percentages that are black or white since these constitute most of the people showing these names, but other backgrounds are shown as well):

    Cohen - 89,091 people, 88.89% white, 5.97% black
    Huntington - 7,306 people, 88.17% white, 4.24% black
    Jackson - 708,099 people, 39.89% white, 53.04% black
    Jefferson - 55,179 people, 17.45% white, 74.24% black
    Percy - 4,226 people, 67.49% white, 21.77% black
    Sailer - 2,520 people, 93.61% white, 0.79% black
    Shapiro - 24,335 people, 96.05% white, 0.35% black
    Smith - 2,442,977 people, 70.9% white, 23.11% black (the most common surname)
    Washington - 177,386 people, 5.17% white, 87.53% black

    Some variations of these names are also interesting. For example, there were 159 McWashingtons in the 2010 Census (4.4% white, 86.16% black). There were also 571 people reporting the last name Cohens (with an 's') (5.08% white, 86.34% black).

    Some variations of these names are also interesting. For example, there were 159 McWashingtons in the 2010 Census (4.4% white, 86.16% black).

    White Washingtons are unusual enough that I had to see how Hollywood lyricist Ned Washington got the name. Turns out his grandfather emigrated from Ireland. I doubt “Washington” was his name over there.

    But the Irish are white now, so they don’t have to use subterfuges like “Mc”.

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    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Reg Caesar:

    I've got news for you. The Irish were always white!
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  236. Alden says:
    @Old Palo Altan
    The earls of Huntington are distinguished, and their surname is Hastings, which also tends to be the same. The surname Huntington on the other hand is of no particular distinction in England.
    Hamilton is the most distinguished aristocratic name in Scotland - two dukedoms, two earldoms, a viscountcy, two baronies, three baronetcies, and four families of the landed gentry; all this without counting the extinct titles.
    I would wager then that something like 90% of the Oxford and Cambridge graduates bearing this name were scions of one or another of these families.

    A countess of Huntington was the financial and political backer of John Wesley.

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  237. prosa123 says: • Website
    @James Kabala
    Backed up by Indiana Jack's fascinating link -

    3,055 Orsinis, 884 Sforzas, 871 Medicis, 345 Borgheses.

    I’ve known people named Orsini and Borghese.

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  238. rec1man says:
    @anon
    Ran an experiment to see if there is any Brahmin privilege; seems to be none, though they are most numerous. In fact Vyshya (Businessmen) have privilege.

    Sharma: 133K (count 171), US + 50K
    Varma/Verma: 133K (65), US + 50K
    Gupta: 212K (129), US + 129K
    Das*: 130K (77), US + 47K

    I ran Iyer ( Tamil Brahmin )
    count 26
    Average = 144k
    Max = $318 K

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Still 68K less than Gupta, though Iyers are probably among the most learned. After all Indian Billionaires are mostly Parsis, Marwaris and Gujaratis. Goes to show business beats scholarship?
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  239. Alden says:
    @Expletive Deleted
    Percy? Their less-well-provided-for (ox-bothering pedestrian scum) kin claim the names of, among others I believe, Reed (of Redesdale and Otterburn, opposed in perpetuity to the names of Elliot (double L, double T, whatever), and Armstrong (of the Moon), never mind Halls (not particularly dangerous, unlike the aforementioned two). And possibly Charlton (greatest living Englishman).

    I remain to be corrected, basically because the northern barbarians are of little consequence, and much of a muchness.

    Try Gascoigne or, I dunno, Musgrave, Dacre or Clifford, they're of a similar vintage and locality, and the descents should map out similarly (relentless gentry interbreeding). Interesting experiment. Do brits fuck about carelessly with their surnames like foreigners do? Inalienable surnames only became a thing apres les Normands, mainly for tax reasons. Only yDNA will provide the answers, I suspect.

    Didn’t the northern barbarians keep the even more barbaric Scots away from the midlands and south?

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    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    No, you can only carry so much porridge.
    Usually they only get as far as Manchester or Derby. Then they're sent back to Newcastle or Carlisle to die in prison.
    Notoriously, the statutes in a number of northern towns requiring citizens to kill any Scot found (within the city walls/above the hightide mark/carrying bow and arrow/drunk in a horsetrough) after dark have never been struck down. Apparently post-Enlightenment legislation prohibiting random murder supersedes these wise and ancient laws.
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  240. Dan Hayes says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Some variations of these names are also interesting. For example, there were 159 McWashingtons in the 2010 Census (4.4% white, 86.16% black).
     
    White Washingtons are unusual enough that I had to see how Hollywood lyricist Ned Washington got the name. Turns out his grandfather emigrated from Ireland. I doubt "Washington" was his name over there.

    But the Irish are white now, so they don't have to use subterfuges like "Mc".

    Reg Caesar:

    I’ve got news for you. The Irish were always white!

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    • Replies: @International Jew
    Reg Cæsar forgets to include the tag, now and then.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    I’ve got news for you. The Irish were always white!
     
    "White" doesn't do justice to the truly ruddy:

    https://www.tenontours.com/dispelling-irish-stereotypes-why-are-all-the-irish-red-heads/

    https://www.tenontours.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/uglybaby.jpg

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  241. @James Kabala
    It is interesting to see how even fairly common surnames (except for the really big ones) have barely enough people to fill a baseball stadium. I thought a mere 55,000 for Jefferson seemed low, but in the vicinity are several other surnames I would have considered fairly common, such as Davenport, Cameron, Hood, Randall, Kirk, Skinner, and Bradford.

    Davenport and Kirk are very Lancashire, and almost certainly Salford Hundred. Kirks in Bolton/Bury area, D’ports to the SW. Bradfords are from anywhere except Bradford (Yorks). But not too far away.
    In the way that Darbysheers (our noble friend J Derbyshire for example), are not from Co. Derby, but also heavily Lancs (Worsley/Eccles mostly), or the Black Country (contained no Blacks at the time, trust me on this. First lesson: Britain is weird. Always was, always will be. Just close your eyes and relax …).
    Otherwise they wouldn’t be called Derbyshire, because it wouldn’t make sense.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Is the pattern kind of like how nobody is called "Tex" in Texas?
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    "Darbysheers (our noble friend J Derbyshire for example), are not from Co. Derby, but also heavily Lancs (Worsley/Eccles mostly)"

    Isn't that because the Earl of Derby owned great chunks of Lancashire, just as great chunks of Derbyshire are still owned by the Duke of Devonshire?
    , @James Kabala
    The Black Belt of Alabama is likewise so-called because of the soil, but (for obvious reasons) it also eventually became full of black people.
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  242. Alden says:
    @Yan Shen
    Not bad, average Shen federal salary comes out to $115,771.72, despite Shen not being a particularly common Chinese surname! Unfortunately though, I doubt this represents any kind of privilege. As I've repeatedly been arguing, Asian Americans are actually the most openly discriminated against group in American society today.

    I suspect more interesting than just looking at salary is also looking at what fields these people actually work in. Which groups of people in this country are disproportionately engaged in value creating STEM activities?

    There are some Asians living in America Activists websites and organizations that weep and wail about how oppressed they are. They also sue the government for more affirmative action jobs and benefits.

    Of course they mostly agitate on behalf of Hmongs , Cambodians and others who’ve been on welfare for generations.
    But you should find those organizations.

    Commenting on random websites that Asians living in America are discriminated against won’t help your cause. Find and join an Asians living in America Activist group.

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  243. @Expletive Deleted
    Davenport and Kirk are very Lancashire, and almost certainly Salford Hundred. Kirks in Bolton/Bury area, D'ports to the SW. Bradfords are from anywhere except Bradford (Yorks). But not too far away.
    In the way that Darbysheers (our noble friend J Derbyshire for example), are not from Co. Derby, but also heavily Lancs (Worsley/Eccles mostly), or the Black Country (contained no Blacks at the time, trust me on this. First lesson: Britain is weird. Always was, always will be. Just close your eyes and relax ...).
    Otherwise they wouldn't be called Derbyshire, because it wouldn't make sense.

    Is the pattern kind of like how nobody is called “Tex” in Texas?

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    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    Guess so.
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  244. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @rec1man
    I ran Iyer ( Tamil Brahmin )
    count 26
    Average = 144k
    Max = $318 K

    Still 68K less than Gupta, though Iyers are probably among the most learned. After all Indian Billionaires are mostly Parsis, Marwaris and Gujaratis. Goes to show business beats scholarship?

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  245. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Wouldn't black people throw a monkey (no pun intended) wrench into this analysis. American blacks often took the names of their plantation owners or even founding fathers. (Indeed, I mentioned to my daughter the other day that I'd never met a white person with the last name of Washington or Jefferson, but I've seen plenty of blacks with those surnames.)

    Surnames that have a lot of overlap between blacks and whites would skew the result toward less surname privilege since blacks tend to earn less. This would be particularly true on a list of government employee surnames since blacks are dramatically overrepresented in government workers.

    Here is one from when jokebooks were popular:

    What did George Washington and Thomas Jefferson have in common?

    [MORE]

    They were the last white people to have these names.

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    • Replies: @Indiana Jack
    Most Washingtons and Jeffersons are black, but there are still several thousand white people having those names as well.

    Ten years ago ancestry.com traced the Washington family genealogy to see who would be king of America had the U.S.A. become a hereditary monarch under George Washington after the Revolution. They found that the most likely candidate was Paul Emery Washington (since deceased) of San Antonio, Texas:

    https://blogs.ancestry.com/cm/king-of-america-who-would-be-washingtons-heir/

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27075856/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/texan-george-washingtons-closest-kin/#.WlPCuK5Ku1s
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  246. @Crawfurdmuir

    "Now start with a uniform population of Roman Catholics. Smartest boy in the family becomes a priest or a monk: then nothing. His siblings are nothing special (remember we started from a uniform population)..."
     
    Your premise is wrong. In mediaeval times, it was not the smartest boy in the family that became a priest - it was a younger son who would not inherit the family's estates. He was, in other words, a spare rather than an heir. Priests were drawn from the "better" classes - as a rule they had to be legitimate, and free-born (so, not of the villein caste). In some places all four grandparents had to be armigerous.

    Younger sons had career options in the church, the military, and after a point, in the law. One might become a clergyman because he was a poor physical specimen and not fit to be a soldier; such was the case with Talleyrand, who was lamed in an accident at the age of four, and made a churchman (becoming bishop of Autun in 1789, just as revolution was about to break out).

    If an heir died leaving a priest next in line to titles and estates, it was not uncommon that he might be dispensed of his vows so that he might succeed to them. An example of this was Cesare Borgia, made archbishop of Valencia in 1492 and a cardinal in 1493. When his brother Giovanni died in 1497 (some say with "assistance" from his younger brother), Cesare sought release from his vows and renounced his cardinalate in 1498, to become Duke of Valentinois, gonfalonier and captain-general of the Holy Roman Church.

    Monks and nuns present a different picture. Monasteries and convents supplied the mediaeval equivalent of social welfare services, finding accommodation and work for those who could get it nowhere else. Most such persons were not priests or even under religious vows, but worked on the estates belonging to religious institutions. However, some were admitted as serving brothers or sisters. Nunneries also functioned as homes for unmarriageable women - typically unmarriageable because their fathers could not afford dowries. Often they were sent to nunneries against their wishes, as in the lyrics of a well-known song of the period:

    Une jeune fillette
    de noble coeur,
    Plaisante et joliette
    de grand' valeur,
    Outre son gré on l'a rendu nonnette
    Cela point ne luy haicte
    dont vit en grand' douleur...

    Interesting, thanks. So, bottom line, would you say Christian societies of the time selected for intelligence, or against it?

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    • Replies: @Crawfurdmuir
    Courtiers were certainly selected for intelligence. Look at Castiglione's book. A man who hoped to succeed at court had to have at least the military skills of a junior officer of cavalry, or equivalent diplomatic and lawyerly abilities; to know several languages in addition to his native tongue, to be able to turn out a respectable sonnet, to read music well enough to sing a part, and possibly to play the lute or the viol. He in addition to all of this had to know enough heraldry to recognize a nobleman by his coat-armour, and to possess sufficient social graces to be presentable in polite society.

    The more exacting trades also required both intelligence and learned skill. Christophe Plantin, the famous printer of 16th-c. Antwerp, was probably the first man to become truly wealthy as a publisher. He required his compositors to know Latin, Greek, and one vulgar tongue apart from their native languages. This was, of course, in addition to knowing the lay of the type case, how to set up properly justified pages, and how to make up formes. There's a combination of skills that I suspect very few people could boast today.

    The Plantin-Moretus family eventually went into banking and were ennobled as viscounts. I believe there may still be descendants.

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  247. @syonredux

    Well, and then what? Relying on the siblings provides no mechanism for accumulating any genetic advantage.
     
    Elementary genetics. If I don't reproduce but both of my siblings do......

    Imagine a uniform initial population of Jews. The smartest guy in the family becomes a rabbi.
     
    Does he? Maybe the guy who becomes a rabbi is the one who likes sitting around....

    He marries the prettiest girl in town, or the richest: both ways, he tends to have more offspring. Now his smartest son becomes a rabbi…etc.

     

    My understanding is that the old idea of rabbis marrying the daughters of wealthy men is exaggerated....

    Now start with a uniform population of Roman Catholics. Smartest boy in the family becomes a priest or a monk: then nothing.
     
    Is he the smartest boy in the family? Perhaps he's just the most pious....

    Ok, maybe that smart boy’s status as a priest improves his siblings’ prospects on the marriage market. But they’re still just average,
     
    Since heredity plays a role in IQ, odds say that the siblings of a guy with an above average IQ will also have above average IQs......

    Well, and then what? Relying on the siblings provides no mechanism for accumulating any genetic advantage.

    Elementary genetics. If I don’t reproduce but both of my siblings do……

    Sure, but that won’t select for intelligence unless (1) your siblings also have the intelligence gene(s) and your being a priest or monk somehow helps your siblings have more kids than they would otherwise have.

    Imagine a uniform initial population of Jews. The smartest guy in the family becomes a rabbi.

    Does he? Maybe the guy who becomes a rabbi is the one who likes sitting around….

    In those days, when almost everyone was poor, if you were an untalented head-in-the-clouds kind of guy, you’d starve. In fact, without some external source of support, or your own ability to work at a high enough rate of pay to enable you to survive working just part-time, you wouldn’t have had the spare time to undertake the course of study that would gain you the rabbi degree (called smicha).

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Sure, but that won’t select for intelligence unless (1) your siblings also have the intelligence gene(s) and your being a priest or monk somehow helps your siblings have more kids than they would otherwise have.
     
    Since they would be the siblings of a person with an above average IQ, they would almost certainly also have above average IQs. And, since IQ has a strong hereditary aspect, they would pass those genes on to their children. Remember, if a guy is 6'6, odds are that his siblings will also be of above average height.....The same thing holds for IQ.....

    And being the sibling of a monk/priest certainly isn't going to hinder their reproductive chances.....


    Imagine a uniform initial population of Jews. The smartest guy in the family becomes a rabbi.

    Does he? Maybe the guy who becomes a rabbi is the one who likes sitting around….

    In those days, when almost everyone was poor, if you were an untalented head-in-the-clouds kind of guy, you’d starve. In fact, without some external source of support, or your own ability to work at a high enough rate of pay to enable you to survive working just part-time, you wouldn’t have had the spare time to undertake the course of study that would gain you the rabbi degree (called smicha).
     

    By "sitting around," I'm referring to reading a lot of useless religious texts. So, sure, our wannabe-rabbi has to work to put himself through his course of study....but it's sheer necessity. His pleasure comes from sitting around reading nonsense......So, probably not a guy with a lot of get-up-and-go.....My Ashkenazi grandfather used to love to tell stories about lazy rabbis....
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  248. @Alden
    Didn’t the northern barbarians keep the even more barbaric Scots away from the midlands and south?

    No, you can only carry so much porridge.
    Usually they only get as far as Manchester or Derby. Then they’re sent back to Newcastle or Carlisle to die in prison.
    Notoriously, the statutes in a number of northern towns requiring citizens to kill any Scot found (within the city walls/above the hightide mark/carrying bow and arrow/drunk in a horsetrough) after dark have never been struck down. Apparently post-Enlightenment legislation prohibiting random murder supersedes these wise and ancient laws.

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  249. @Dan Hayes
    Reg Caesar:

    I've got news for you. The Irish were always white!

    Reg Cæsar forgets to include the tag, now and then.

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  250. Anonym says:
    @benjaminl
    Just to take the median, since it's easier:

    WASPy names

    Eliot $137,000 (n=1)
    Winthrop $131,000 (n=3)
    Chafee $109,000 (n=1)
    Berkeley $98,000 (n=9)
    Dana $88,000 (n=38)
    Putnam $88,000 (n=77)
    Peabody $83,000 (n=22)
    Thayer $83,000 (n=44)
    Lowell $82,000 (n=23)
    Cushing $82,000 (n=29)
    Delano $81,000 (n=13)
    Forbes $78,000 (n=163)
    Morse $78,000 (n=170)
    Choate $74,000 (n=34)
    Endicott $65,000 (n=14)
    Coolidge $46,000 (n=11)

    German names

    Snyder $80,000 (n=625)
    Huffman $77,000 (n=156)

    Irish names

    Flanagan $93,000 (n=123)
    Sweeney $84,000 (n=231)
    Callahan $84,000 (n=203)
    Doyle $81,000 (n=283)
    McGuire $80,000 (n=237)

    Black names

    Cooks $78,000 (n=75)
    Shabazz $77,000 (n=23)
    Broadnax $77,000 (n=27)
    Boykins $72,000 (n=25)
    Gadsden $71,000 (n=17)
    Ivery $69,000 (n=14)
    Smalls $66,000 (n=73)
    Pettaway $65,000 (n=12)
    Gadson $65,000 (n=29)
    Wigfall $63,000 (n=15)
    Fluellen $55,000 (n=12)


    I wonder about the restriction of range / selection bias.

    Has someone with more time than me written a Perl script or the like to go through a dictionary of surnames and get the number, mean and median salary of all of these surnames?

    Realistically you want to apply some sort of downward pressure to the small sample size surnames, as it’s the same basic thing as high ratings in Amazon on small sample sizes. (Of course, Amazon keeps that there to encourage more people to try and rate the highest rated items, as ultimately finding better stuff is what will drive their sales, at the expense of a few guinea pigs who knew what they were getting into.)

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  251. @Steve Sailer
    Is the pattern kind of like how nobody is called "Tex" in Texas?

    Guess so.

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    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Is the pattern kind of like how nobody is called “Tex” in Texas?
     

    Guess so.
     
    I can almost see your (deleted) expletives! Maybe there are returning Tex-patriates who are exceptions to the rule:

    “Look here, it’s Li’l Slim back from the hills of Tennessee!”

    “It’s Tex now, you sumbitch.”
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  252. guest says:
    @anonymous
    Steve,
    did you ever square dance? Maybe your kids learned square dancing in school. Like many other Americans of your vintage, you may be part of an unwitting experiment.

    https://qz.com/1153516/americas-wholesome-square-dancing-tradition-is-a-tool-of-white-supremacy/

    They were still teaching me square dancing after the Long March Through the Institutions. The Boomer Generation certainly didn’t enjoy folk music because of its whiteness. Rather, they like it in spite of its whiteness. Or at least that part of it which is white in origin. Funnily enough, the Fords of the world made a lot of mistakes, and attributed un-white music to whites.

    Henry Ford, by the way, was influential and did promote Americana for partially racist reasons. He was also never part of the Establishment, though his foundation was. The Establishment made fun of him, including in a rather embarrassing visit to the witness stand. If educrats were pushing square dancing instruction in the 70s and 80s, rest assured it was NOT because of Ford.

    Why did they, then? Well, our school system feeds the fire under the melting pot. They love synthetic culture, including propping up dead culture. Persistent popular dance forms don’t need to be taught in school. You can go somewhere to learn the fox-trot, Charleston, swing, and other forms associated with jazz. You can also go learn to waltz and polka, two white dance forms that don’t get taught in school.

    Square dancing and line dancing may be taught in barns and honky-tonks in certain parts of the country. I wouldn’t know. But most people will never encounter them in real life. Not counting that one line routine people do at wedding receptions. So there’s a purpose to teaching them in school.

    I’m one of those weirdos who doesn’t necessarily hold malign origins* against something, if it’s valuable. Which may or may not be the case with square dancing. But the simple fact that it was promoted due to racism doesn’t have to be no thang. So was birth control, among other things in which good Current Year citizens believe.

    By the way, I like a lot of jazz, but I’m not crazy about the style of dance associated with it. I watch Jane Austen costume dramas sometimes and wonder, “Why don’t we do that instead of gyrating like the possessed?”

    *Not that preserving white culture for the sake of whiteness is a bad thing.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I did a contract job (it was installing an IT system, not bumping someone off for the Amish Mafia) in an ag equipment plant in Indiana in the nineties. On alternate Sundays part of final assembly was cleared out for square dance practice groups. Several people in the plant were square dancers or dance callers.
    , @Intelligent Dasein
    I was made to do square dancing and line dancing in my gym class in junior high in the mid '90s.

    It was hell. We spent an entire quarter of the school year doing that. All I could do was bear the burden stoically and wait for the time to pass by.

    Apart from the fact that I wasn't technically starving to death or sleeping in frozen, lice-infested bunkers, I've never felt public school to be much different from being in the gulag.
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  253. @Steve Sailer
    E.g., there were two reporters named Shapiro, T. Rees Shapiro of the Washington Post and Jeffrey Epstein Shapiro of the Washington Examiner, who played admirable roles in exposing the Haven Monahan hoax.

    On the other hand, there don't appear to have been any world famous Shapiros. That's probably just luck.

    Steve, the most famous Shapiro is/was Tokyo Shapiro. I tell ya I got some dynamite deals on stereo equipment from that Japanese Jew in the late eighties. Dynamite!

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  254. guest says:
    @Pseudonymic Handle
    OT: The NYT wrote about alt-right men dating asian women, including John Derbyshire.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/06/opinion/sunday/alt-right-asian-fetish.html

    Well, that’s one thing alt-righters would have in common with the people around whose names they put parentheses.

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  255. @Ripple Earthdevil
    There is no Huntingdon MA, not near Cambridge or anywhere else. There's a Huntington MA which is in the western part of the state past Springfield/Northampton.

    Jonathan was writing about Huntingdon, England, and being jocular about the related Bostons and Cambridges.

    There is a Hunting(t)on Avenue in Boston, MA:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huntington_Avenue

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  256. @Jonathan Mason
    Regarding Huntingdon, I should perhaps have added that in 1601 a man called Munday wrote a play about Robin Hood in which it is claimed that Hood was the Earl of Huntingdon.

    This was probably an attempt to give a social upgrade to the renowned socialist who robbed from the rich and gave to the poor, a quaint notion that predates the modern tendency to reverse the process.

    The current Earl of Huntingdon is William Edward Robin Hood Hastings-Bass, 17th Earl of Huntingdon, who came from a family of wealthy racehorse trainers and trained horses for the Queen. Since his retirement he has taken part in charity work, driving a truckload of supplies to Bosnia and taking part in bike ride across Borneo and a safari in the Australian outback.

    Regarding Huntingdon, I should perhaps have added that in 1601 a man called Munday wrote a play about Robin Hood in which it is claimed that Hood was the Earl of Huntingdon.

    This was probably an attempt to give a social upgrade to the renowned socialist who robbed from the rich and gave to the poor, a quaint notion that predates the modern tendency to reverse the process.

    If you recall the legend, what Robin did was not to “rob from the rich and give to the poor,” but to rob the ill-gotten loot of the usurper Prince John’s tax collectors, and give it back to the people from whom they had exacted it.

    The claim that Robin was Earl of Huntingdon, or received the title from Richard the Lionhearted upon the latter’s return from his crusade, is of course false. The earldom was held during all of this period by Henry, brother of William the Lion of Scotland. It had been one of the Scottish royal family’s possessions in England intermittently throughout the twelfth century.

    There is often a bit of genuine but garbled history buried in legends. Thus, for example, the Siegfried and Brunnhilde of the Nibelungenlied probably reflect the Merovingian Sigebert and his wife, the Visigothic princess Brunehaut. If we are to look for some historical events in the background to the Robin Hood legend, they might have arisen after the accession of John as King of England and in the period of rebellion before Magna Carta was forced upon the King by his barons.

    In 1209, John compelled William the Lion, King of Scots and ci-devant Earl of Huntingdon, elder brother of the then incumbent Earl, to give two of his daughters in marriage to English barons. One of these barons was Robert de Ros, Baron of Helmsley. De Ros later joined the rebellion against John and was one of the Magna Carta sureties.

    Robin was a common nickname for Robert – could the rebellious Robert de Ros, married to a Scottish royal who was niece of the Earl of Huntingdon, be the origin of the legend that Robin Hood was Earl of Huntingdon?

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  257. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @guest
    They were still teaching me square dancing after the Long March Through the Institutions. The Boomer Generation certainly didn't enjoy folk music because of its whiteness. Rather, they like it in spite of its whiteness. Or at least that part of it which is white in origin. Funnily enough, the Fords of the world made a lot of mistakes, and attributed un-white music to whites.

    Henry Ford, by the way, was influential and did promote Americana for partially racist reasons. He was also never part of the Establishment, though his foundation was. The Establishment made fun of him, including in a rather embarrassing visit to the witness stand. If educrats were pushing square dancing instruction in the 70s and 80s, rest assured it was NOT because of Ford.

    Why did they, then? Well, our school system feeds the fire under the melting pot. They love synthetic culture, including propping up dead culture. Persistent popular dance forms don't need to be taught in school. You can go somewhere to learn the fox-trot, Charleston, swing, and other forms associated with jazz. You can also go learn to waltz and polka, two white dance forms that don't get taught in school.

    Square dancing and line dancing may be taught in barns and honky-tonks in certain parts of the country. I wouldn't know. But most people will never encounter them in real life. Not counting that one line routine people do at wedding receptions. So there's a purpose to teaching them in school.

    I'm one of those weirdos who doesn't necessarily hold malign origins* against something, if it's valuable. Which may or may not be the case with square dancing. But the simple fact that it was promoted due to racism doesn't have to be no thang. So was birth control, among other things in which good Current Year citizens believe.

    By the way, I like a lot of jazz, but I'm not crazy about the style of dance associated with it. I watch Jane Austen costume dramas sometimes and wonder, "Why don't we do that instead of gyrating like the possessed?"

    *Not that preserving white culture for the sake of whiteness is a bad thing.

    I did a contract job (it was installing an IT system, not bumping someone off for the Amish Mafia) in an ag equipment plant in Indiana in the nineties. On alternate Sundays part of final assembly was cleared out for square dance practice groups. Several people in the plant were square dancers or dance callers.

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  258. @Expletive Deleted
    Guess so.

    Is the pattern kind of like how nobody is called “Tex” in Texas?

    Guess so.

    I can almost see your (deleted) expletives! Maybe there are returning Tex-patriates who are exceptions to the rule:

    “Look here, it’s Li’l Slim back from the hills of Tennessee!”

    “It’s Tex now, you sumbitch.”

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  259. @International Jew
    Interesting, thanks. So, bottom line, would you say Christian societies of the time selected for intelligence, or against it?

    Courtiers were certainly selected for intelligence. Look at Castiglione’s book. A man who hoped to succeed at court had to have at least the military skills of a junior officer of cavalry, or equivalent diplomatic and lawyerly abilities; to know several languages in addition to his native tongue, to be able to turn out a respectable sonnet, to read music well enough to sing a part, and possibly to play the lute or the viol. He in addition to all of this had to know enough heraldry to recognize a nobleman by his coat-armour, and to possess sufficient social graces to be presentable in polite society.

    The more exacting trades also required both intelligence and learned skill. Christophe Plantin, the famous printer of 16th-c. Antwerp, was probably the first man to become truly wealthy as a publisher. He required his compositors to know Latin, Greek, and one vulgar tongue apart from their native languages. This was, of course, in addition to knowing the lay of the type case, how to set up properly justified pages, and how to make up formes. There’s a combination of skills that I suspect very few people could boast today.

    The Plantin-Moretus family eventually went into banking and were ennobled as viscounts. I believe there may still be descendants.

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  260. Karl says:
    @Couch Scientist
    Of Irish surnames, my intuition had been that the Daly name punches over its weight. I also felt the same way about Higgins.

    Backed up on Daly by the OPM data: 143 Daly feds average 98,788 or +$16,000.

    Not so much on the Higgins, a more common Irish name. 314 federal Higgins average $85,526 for a modest factor or +$3000.

    Compare to a less common Irish name, that was once Irish-American royalty: Meagher (Thomas Meagher). 21 federal Meaghers averaging $82,532, which is a basically the fed average (factor of 0).

    217 Couch Scientist > Backed up on Daly

    There is a Daly California. It is about as Filipino as Manila. It ALSO happens to contain the HQ of the American branch of the Karaite stream of Jews, who never accepted the new-fangled Talmud. They still go by second Temple rulings from Herod’s days.

    the people who want to say that today’s Jews have nothing-to-do with Judeans of yore, cannot seem to explain away the Karaites. They have an even MORE embarrasment to explain away the Samaritan Jews, who actually never went into diaspora at all. They’re still here in their two villages. Well, the western one became engulfed by today’s city of Holon, which is really part of Greater Metro Tel Aviv, as far as the bus drivers are concerned.

    The Samaritans still sacrifice a lamb at Passover, and use the same pre-Aramaic alphabet that King Solomon collected taxes in.

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  261. @James Kabala
    Backed up by Indiana Jack's fascinating link -

    3,055 Orsinis, 884 Sforzas, 871 Medicis, 345 Borgheses.

    How many Viscontis?

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  262. syonredux says:
    @kaganovitch
    Rabbinic and wealthy families were largely the same families for hundreds of years up until emancipation. As it happens, before emancipation and the advent of the "pulpit Rabbi", the rabbinate was a much more demanding intellectual endeavor which required the mastery of a vast corpus of law and text.

    Rabbinic and wealthy families were largely the same families for hundreds of years up until emancipation

    Any statistical as opposed to anecdotal evidence?

    As it happens, before emancipation and the advent of the “pulpit Rabbi”, the rabbinate was a much more demanding intellectual endeavor which required the mastery of a vast corpus of law and text.

    Eh.

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  263. syonredux says:
    @International Jew


    Well, and then what? Relying on the siblings provides no mechanism for accumulating any genetic advantage.

     

    Elementary genetics. If I don’t reproduce but both of my siblings do……
     
    Sure, but that won't select for intelligence unless (1) your siblings also have the intelligence gene(s) and your being a priest or monk somehow helps your siblings have more kids than they would otherwise have.


    Imagine a uniform initial population of Jews. The smartest guy in the family becomes a rabbi.
     
    Does he? Maybe the guy who becomes a rabbi is the one who likes sitting around….

     

    In those days, when almost everyone was poor, if you were an untalented head-in-the-clouds kind of guy, you'd starve. In fact, without some external source of support, or your own ability to work at a high enough rate of pay to enable you to survive working just part-time, you wouldn't have had the spare time to undertake the course of study that would gain you the rabbi degree (called smicha).

    Sure, but that won’t select for intelligence unless (1) your siblings also have the intelligence gene(s) and your being a priest or monk somehow helps your siblings have more kids than they would otherwise have.

    Since they would be the siblings of a person with an above average IQ, they would almost certainly also have above average IQs. And, since IQ has a strong hereditary aspect, they would pass those genes on to their children. Remember, if a guy is 6’6, odds are that his siblings will also be of above average height…..The same thing holds for IQ…..

    And being the sibling of a monk/priest certainly isn’t going to hinder their reproductive chances…..

    Imagine a uniform initial population of Jews. The smartest guy in the family becomes a rabbi.

    Does he? Maybe the guy who becomes a rabbi is the one who likes sitting around….

    In those days, when almost everyone was poor, if you were an untalented head-in-the-clouds kind of guy, you’d starve. In fact, without some external source of support, or your own ability to work at a high enough rate of pay to enable you to survive working just part-time, you wouldn’t have had the spare time to undertake the course of study that would gain you the rabbi degree (called smicha).

    By “sitting around,” I’m referring to reading a lot of useless religious texts. So, sure, our wannabe-rabbi has to work to put himself through his course of study….but it’s sheer necessity. His pleasure comes from sitting around reading nonsense……So, probably not a guy with a lot of get-up-and-go…..My Ashkenazi grandfather used to love to tell stories about lazy rabbis….

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    • Replies: @International Jew

    By “sitting around,” I’m referring to reading a lot of useless religious texts.
     
    Your evident antipathy to the content of Talmud is preventing you from thinking clearly about the genetic issues.
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  264. MEH 0910 says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Try typing in “Soros”, or one of its early variants, like “Beelzebub “.
     
    Considering that Soros is an Esperanto name, how do others of that "ethnicity" perform? Are they citizens of the world?
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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    There'll be some variants from the Southern states, with the corrupted form "Belsebubba". Most of them work at auto junkyards, not the government, though.
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  265. @Expletive Deleted
    Davenport and Kirk are very Lancashire, and almost certainly Salford Hundred. Kirks in Bolton/Bury area, D'ports to the SW. Bradfords are from anywhere except Bradford (Yorks). But not too far away.
    In the way that Darbysheers (our noble friend J Derbyshire for example), are not from Co. Derby, but also heavily Lancs (Worsley/Eccles mostly), or the Black Country (contained no Blacks at the time, trust me on this. First lesson: Britain is weird. Always was, always will be. Just close your eyes and relax ...).
    Otherwise they wouldn't be called Derbyshire, because it wouldn't make sense.

    “Darbysheers (our noble friend J Derbyshire for example), are not from Co. Derby, but also heavily Lancs (Worsley/Eccles mostly)”

    Isn’t that because the Earl of Derby owned great chunks of Lancashire, just as great chunks of Derbyshire are still owned by the Duke of Devonshire?

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  266. Read More
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  267. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @englishmike

    Smith just means maker. So anyone who made things could have the name Smith.
     
    That was my understanding too, until I checked Wikipedia, where it is claimed to mean someone who makes things with metal (confirmed by my 1970 Oxford Dictionary).

    Of course, these things can become updated. Did you know that one reputable dictionary (it might be the Oxford) now accepts that literally can mean metaphorically because it is a common usage. When I heard that, I was literally gobsmacked.

    This is a good illustration of what dictionaries are about. They describe how people use (and misuse) a language, and nothing gets lexicographers more excited than being the first one to document the latest solecism.

    Duos like literally/figuratively and nauseous/nauseating are particularly disappointing because the result is that we no longer have words which mean what the former of each of those pairs used to mean. There are many such examples and one effect is that our ability to think about things is actually diminished.

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    • Replies: @englishmike

    Duos like literally/figuratively and nauseous/nauseating are particularly disappointing because the result is that we no longer have words which mean what the former of each of those pairs used to mean. There are many such examples and one effect is that our ability to think about things is actually diminished.
     
    I agree. The language lost an important distinction when disinterested came to be treated as a synonym for "uninterested".

    And although it's not the same kind of "duo", I notice an increasing tendency for people to use brutalized to mean "brutally treated" rather than "turned into a brute".
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  268. @unit472
    It would be hard to think of more famous surnames than those of American mafioso or Italian artists but I am not aware if Italian names bear any relation to social status/origins. Any Italians know?

    I am not aware if Italian names bear any relation to social status/origins. Any Italians know?

    As a very general rule Italian names that end in -i tend to be northern, and higher social status than names that end in -o,-a, -e which are southern. So Rossi, Bianchi, Ferrari are generally higher achieving than Russo, Ferraro or De Rosa.

    Also – Agnelli, Prodi, Visconti, Rossellini and Renzi are better names than Bonanno, Colombo, Gambino, Genovese und Lucchese.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    As a very general rule Italian names that end in -i tend to be northern, and higher social status than names that end in -o,-a, -e which are southern. So Rossi, Bianchi, Ferrari are generally higher achieving than Russo, Ferraro or De Rosa.
     
    What about Italian names that end in "s": De Santis, De Angelis, De Laurentiis, etc
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  269. @jesse helms think-alike
    Cohen is a name that has a hebrew meaning unlike some of the german yiddish jewish names:

    Cohen is a Hebrew name (כהן) which literally means "priest" (mostly of the Jewish religion). It's also a common Jewish surname which represents an ancient biblical priestly heritage.
     

    from babynamewizrd.com

    The name Smith meaning blacksmith has long been described as the most common among english speaking peoples. The number of present day Smiths cannot correspond to the percentage of actual working blacksmiths in the population at the time surnames were adopted. (how many blacksmiths does a society need?) It may show that blacksmiths were more successful at having numerous descendants.

    Similarly the name Fletcher meaning arrow maker while uncommon is still less rare than one would think. How many full time arrow makers (arrowsmiths?) can there have been?

    The intersection of linguistics and actual multi-layered meaning of words and names is a fascinating topic.

    For example the word safe for a strong box is a seemingly mundane word until you realize that having a safe to store your valuables makes you feel "safe" connecting the two meanings of the word.

    A “smith” was originally someone who forged, then later fashioned, things using a hammer. A prefix (e.g. “black-”, “gold”-, “wood”-) then indicated what materials he worked on. Something similar happened with the term “wright”. A wright was simply a workman, one who did not necessarily use a hammer, but later the distinction between a smith and a wright became blurred (e.g. a “wheelwright” should more properly have been called a “wheelsmith”).

    According to Skeat, “smith” originates in a lost verb meaning “to forge”, while “wright” is related to “work”. Another form of that word is the adjective “wrought”, as in “wrought iron” – which should of course be “smithed iron”!

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  270. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Recently had my hair cut by a woman named Uniqua. No kidding.
     
    I know a women named Perma, unfortunately she is not a hairdresser, but she tells me her name is even uniquer than Uniqua.

    Also with reference to a lack of federal employees named Laquisha as mentioned in a post above, I believe the name is more commonly spelled either as Lakeisha or as Lakesha, and, surprisingly to me, it is also used as a white name. Actually I know a white Lakesha.

    The problem with made-up names is that if you are uneducated, you may well given your child the name of an unpleasant disease without knowing it. It has always baffled me that there is a chain of shoe stores called The Athletes Foot, apparently oblivious of the fact, or perhaps because of the fact that athlete's foot is a fungal infection that grows between the toes.

    Of course it all depends where you are. In England I once met an American man called Randolph Hornblower, who said that in the US everyone called him "Horny". It was a relief for him to arrive in Britain where people asked him if he was "Randy".

    Sounds like you have not yet seen Shirley Q’s “Who is my baby daddy” in which case you are are in for a heck of a treat.

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  271. @International Jew
    Speaking of rabbis, it's worth looking up the Greek equivalent: these would be all the names beginning with "Papa" ("priest") and ending with "ou" or "os" (Greek case endings, don't ask...) There'll be something (possibly long) in between, typically a given name. Hence Papadopoulos, Papademetriou, Papandreou. Some of them will actually be Romanian, but that's ok because Greek-surnamed Romanians were often aristocrats. For anyone willing to do the work...

    Too bad the smartest Roman Catholics were sworn to celibacy.

    Too bad the smartest Roman Catholics were sworn to celibacy.

    That doesn’t mean they didn’t have children. Celibacy may have had a dysgenic effect in countries like Ireland or Spain where they took their vows seriously but not in Italy. Chaucer, Boccaccio, and even Martin Luther seem to have all agreed that in the late Middle Ages Priests and Monks were getting their rocks off probably more often than peasants.

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  272. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Crawfurdmuir

    "Now start with a uniform population of Roman Catholics. Smartest boy in the family becomes a priest or a monk: then nothing. His siblings are nothing special (remember we started from a uniform population)..."
     
    Your premise is wrong. In mediaeval times, it was not the smartest boy in the family that became a priest - it was a younger son who would not inherit the family's estates. He was, in other words, a spare rather than an heir. Priests were drawn from the "better" classes - as a rule they had to be legitimate, and free-born (so, not of the villein caste). In some places all four grandparents had to be armigerous.

    Younger sons had career options in the church, the military, and after a point, in the law. One might become a clergyman because he was a poor physical specimen and not fit to be a soldier; such was the case with Talleyrand, who was lamed in an accident at the age of four, and made a churchman (becoming bishop of Autun in 1789, just as revolution was about to break out).

    If an heir died leaving a priest next in line to titles and estates, it was not uncommon that he might be dispensed of his vows so that he might succeed to them. An example of this was Cesare Borgia, made archbishop of Valencia in 1492 and a cardinal in 1493. When his brother Giovanni died in 1497 (some say with "assistance" from his younger brother), Cesare sought release from his vows and renounced his cardinalate in 1498, to become Duke of Valentinois, gonfalonier and captain-general of the Holy Roman Church.

    Monks and nuns present a different picture. Monasteries and convents supplied the mediaeval equivalent of social welfare services, finding accommodation and work for those who could get it nowhere else. Most such persons were not priests or even under religious vows, but worked on the estates belonging to religious institutions. However, some were admitted as serving brothers or sisters. Nunneries also functioned as homes for unmarriageable women - typically unmarriageable because their fathers could not afford dowries. Often they were sent to nunneries against their wishes, as in the lyrics of a well-known song of the period:

    Une jeune fillette
    de noble coeur,
    Plaisante et joliette
    de grand' valeur,
    Outre son gré on l'a rendu nonnette
    Cela point ne luy haicte
    dont vit en grand' douleur...

    Your writing style is a balm to my wounded spirit. ‘Twas Society what done that, and I’m greatly obliged for the relief.

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  273. @Anonymous
    Say what you will about Donald John Trump, he's a billionaire, and he only had a few million handed to him. He's done alright for a shaygets in a very Jewish millieu. He has drive and ambition and balls. Neither Obama nor GWB can say that.

    Say what you will about Donald John Trump, he’s a billionaire, and he only had a few million handed to him.

    Except that is simply not true. He is not a billionaire and his net worth today is about what he inherited, adjusted for inflation. For the past two decades he has been viewed as a joke by people who actually make money in real estate. That is a fact. Trump has one virtue – he is strong on immigration. He has no other virtues, but maybe at this point in history that one virtue is enough.

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    • Agree: AndrewR
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Everything you wrote before "that is a fact" is inaccurate, and in your short list of virtues you neglected AFFH just this week, and the fact that the man delivers continuous angina to our enemies.
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  274. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    As I’ve repeatedly been arguing, Asian Americans are actually the most openly discriminated against group in American society today.

    A great reason to end immigration of Asians. Spare them the oppression, and ourselves the whining.
     
    Here's my rule for immigration: Don't allow in anyone who can make a claim for discrimination based on ethnic/racial/religious grounds.

    Alas, since Hart-Celler those are the only people we do let in. Something just a tad perverse about that.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Alas, since Hart-Celler those are the only people we do let in. Something just a tad perverse about that.
     
    Indeed. One might even call it suicidal.
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  275. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    As I’ve repeatedly been arguing, Asian Americans are actually the most openly discriminated against group in American society today.
     
    Right, because Asian American life expectancy is going down, and Asian Americans are the object of the white privilege Maoist struggle sessions, and Asian American don't make as much money as white Americans.

    Come on, you are a member of a privileged overclass. Your repeated arguing is nothing more than argument bereft of facts, and devoid of reasoning.

    Pretty much the same thing as with the chosenites, and just look how well it’s worked out for them! Makes sense that Asians would seek to emulate the most privileged subgroup in the nation, and Asians are very good at copying.

    This also explains why Jews in charge of Ivy League admissions might seek to limit the flood of Asian applicants. Any further increase is likely to come at the expense of Jews themselves, since Anglo types have been reduced down to a select few athletes along with a tiny number of legacies. Because most legacies are now Jewish too.

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  276. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Peter Akuleyev
    Say what you will about Donald John Trump, he’s a billionaire, and he only had a few million handed to him.

    Except that is simply not true. He is not a billionaire and his net worth today is about what he inherited, adjusted for inflation. For the past two decades he has been viewed as a joke by people who actually make money in real estate. That is a fact. Trump has one virtue - he is strong on immigration. He has no other virtues, but maybe at this point in history that one virtue is enough.

    Everything you wrote before “that is a fact” is inaccurate, and in your short list of virtues you neglected AFFH just this week, and the fact that the man delivers continuous angina to our enemies.

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    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    the fact that the man delivers continuous angina to our enemies.

    I don't consider that a virtue, I consider that stupid short-sighted behavior that only plays into the hands of America's real enemies - China, Russia, and the Islamic world. A real leader would try to persuade and encourage as many talented Americans as possible to join him. An America that alienates half the people with an IQ over 120 probably doesn't have a long term future. Reagan may have made mistakes, but he understood that point. So did Churchill. Trump does not. On that point Trump is more like Pol Pot, encouraging the stupid to attack the educated.
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  277. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Pseudonymic Handle
    OT: The NYT wrote about alt-right men dating asian women, including John Derbyshire.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/06/opinion/sunday/alt-right-asian-fetish.html

    Never paid attention to Andrew Anglin– he has remarkably asian-looking eyes for a white guy.

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  278. My last name was once a name of privilege perhaps, no impediment even for many a Jewish lass years ago. Not sure if the same ‘pop’ comes from the last name Christian these days as many years ago. My Pop was Federal, he was in the GS teens, 14 or 15 back then, don’t remember where. Since, you’d need a Masters to reach that. Not sure if that’s tip-top for the name..

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    In Britain it was common until fairly recently to refer to first names as Christian names even if the person concerned was not a christian--the term had no more religious connotation than terms like Act of God. Traditional large numbers of British people have had first names found in the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, plus the names of saints like St. George, St. Margaret, and so on.

    There are many British surnames that are though to have come from roles played in pageants or local connections, some of which are religious, or appear religious, for example Abbey, Abbot, Dean, Saint, St. John, Pope, Bishop, Priest, Priestley, Pilgrim, Canon, Church, Kirk, Pew, Bell, Cross, Graves, King, Queen, Lord, Earl, Duke, Squires.

    Of course many Christian names became surnames in the next generations, such as Peters, Matthews, Johnson, and so on.
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  279. a reader says:
    @utu
    Variants of Cohen

    Now and Forever — A Conversation with Israel Zangwill (New York: Robert M. McBride & Co., 1925)
    Zangwill--That is strange, for in every European country Jews are foremost among the leaders in all the arts.
    Roth--It is not strange at all. Jewish literary talent in America has been exhausted in the effort to disguise the name Cohen of which you may find in the New York Telephone Directory no less than twenty-four variations: Cohen, Cohn, Cone, Cunn, Curie, Coan, Coon, Cohene, Cane, Kohn, Kohne, Kohen, Kohene, Kuhn, Kuhne, Kun, Kunn, Koen, Konn, Coone, Cahn, Kone, Kann, and Kahn
     

    Cohen, Cohn, Cone, Cunn, Curie, Coan, Coon, Cohene, Cane, Kohn, Kohne, Kohen, Kohene, Kuhn, Kuhne, Kun, Kunn, Koen, Konn, Coone, Cahn, Kone, Kann, and Kahn

    Is there some appropriation going on?

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    • Replies: @James Kabala
    John Kerry also turned out to be really a Kohn.
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  280. a reader says:
    @utu
    Variants of Cohen

    Now and Forever — A Conversation with Israel Zangwill (New York: Robert M. McBride & Co., 1925)
    Zangwill--That is strange, for in every European country Jews are foremost among the leaders in all the arts.
    Roth--It is not strange at all. Jewish literary talent in America has been exhausted in the effort to disguise the name Cohen of which you may find in the New York Telephone Directory no less than twenty-four variations: Cohen, Cohn, Cone, Cunn, Curie, Coan, Coon, Cohene, Cane, Kohn, Kohne, Kohen, Kohene, Kuhn, Kuhne, Kun, Kunn, Koen, Konn, Coone, Cahn, Kone, Kann, and Kahn
     

    What about Coben?

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  281. @Expletive Deleted
    Davenport and Kirk are very Lancashire, and almost certainly Salford Hundred. Kirks in Bolton/Bury area, D'ports to the SW. Bradfords are from anywhere except Bradford (Yorks). But not too far away.
    In the way that Darbysheers (our noble friend J Derbyshire for example), are not from Co. Derby, but also heavily Lancs (Worsley/Eccles mostly), or the Black Country (contained no Blacks at the time, trust me on this. First lesson: Britain is weird. Always was, always will be. Just close your eyes and relax ...).
    Otherwise they wouldn't be called Derbyshire, because it wouldn't make sense.

    The Black Belt of Alabama is likewise so-called because of the soil, but (for obvious reasons) it also eventually became full of black people.

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  282. @a reader

    Cohen, Cohn, Cone, Cunn, Curie, Coan, Coon, Cohene, Cane, Kohn, Kohne, Kohen, Kohene, Kuhn, Kuhne, Kun, Kunn, Koen, Konn, Coone, Cahn, Kone, Kann, and Kahn
     
    Is there some appropriation going on?

    John Kerry also turned out to be really a Kohn.

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  283. @Intelligent Dasein
    There's some funny juxtapositions on that list. For instance, what are the odds that Mason and Dixon would end up right next to each other (169 and 170)?

    There's also the curious case that Miranda and Lambert are neighbors (333 and 332).

    I don’t remember any facts about songwriter Carole Bayer Sager other than that she exists, but her names are also back to back (3389 and 3390). I wonder if she ever wrote for Julio Iglesias. (Iglesias is just ahead, tied for 3387 with Hiller.)

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  284. scrivener3 says: • Website
    @guest
    "all advantages are not due to unearned privilege"

    They want you to think "unearned privilege" when you hear "privilege," which is a dirty trick. Much like with "racism,"--which combines the desire to throw all members of a despised race into gas chambers with innocuously noticing people of a certain color are better at basketball--it's a slippery term. You can't pin them down.

    Even more insidious, they are claiming if a group does better, it must be due to privilege. Sometimes underprivileged groups do better,

    It’s disparate impact applied to everything in life. If anyone or group does better it is because they have an unfair advantage.

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  285. @Indiana Jack
    There is also another interesting site that people might be interested in. The U.S. Census Bureau has an Excel spreadsheet that anyone can download showing all surnames that occurred at least 100 times in the 2010 Census, along with the racial distribution of those names:

    https://www.census.gov/topics/population/genealogy/data/2010_surnames.html

    Out of curiosity, I checked some of the surnames that have come up on this thread, to see how many people held those names, along with their racial breakdown (I am showing the percentages that are black or white since these constitute most of the people showing these names, but other backgrounds are shown as well):

    Cohen - 89,091 people, 88.89% white, 5.97% black
    Huntington - 7,306 people, 88.17% white, 4.24% black
    Jackson - 708,099 people, 39.89% white, 53.04% black
    Jefferson - 55,179 people, 17.45% white, 74.24% black
    Percy - 4,226 people, 67.49% white, 21.77% black
    Sailer - 2,520 people, 93.61% white, 0.79% black
    Shapiro - 24,335 people, 96.05% white, 0.35% black
    Smith - 2,442,977 people, 70.9% white, 23.11% black (the most common surname)
    Washington - 177,386 people, 5.17% white, 87.53% black

    Some variations of these names are also interesting. For example, there were 159 McWashingtons in the 2010 Census (4.4% white, 86.16% black). There were also 571 people reporting the last name Cohens (with an 's') (5.08% white, 86.34% black).

    It is interesting to put in surnames known mainly because of one celebrity and learn just how rare they are. We have 183 Malkoviches, 146 Zellwegers, and 109 Vonneguts. Names that fail to hit 100 at all include Belichick, Kardashian, and both Sajak and Trebek (of course the latter is really from Canada).

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    • Replies: @James Kabala
    There are 159 Obamas. (Are they all authentic Kenyans, or could some be eccentrics/fanatics who changed their names? It would be interesting to compare with the 2000 census.)

    There are 3,886 Trumps. Trump's ancestral surname of Drumpf does not make 100.
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  286. @Jamie_NYC
    Didn't slaves in the US adopt the family names of their masters? That may skew the statistics...

    What do Washington, Jefferson, Jackson and Lincoln have in common?

    The last white guys with those names.

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    • Replies: @Flip
    I've run across plenty of white Jacksons over the years.
    , @ScarletNumber
    See post 244
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  287. Simon>Percy (Wikipedia)

    “In 2006, writing about the influence of political lobbies on the U.S. relationship with Israel, political theorists John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt wrote that they believed Percy’s loss was the result of a campaign waged against him by the powerful American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).[19] The lobbying group controlled substantial monies and helped lawmakers who they believed supported the security of Israel.”

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  288. @Steve Sailer
    Jim Cohen played seven years in the baseball Negro Leagues:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Cohen_(baseball)

    None of those was him, as he was on the road during the census, on a series against the Toledo Mudhens. Those hits were from another small subset of COBS-kids, the poor bastards.

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  289. @Steve Sailer
    Jim Cohen played seven years in the baseball Negro Leagues:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Cohen_(baseball)

    Well, hell, I assumed you erudite folks on here would just know what that meant. I guess we can’t all be hip to the current health-care terminology.

    C.O.B.S. = Children Of Bad Spellers

    /pre-emptive reply

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  290. @Anonymous
    Everything you wrote before "that is a fact" is inaccurate, and in your short list of virtues you neglected AFFH just this week, and the fact that the man delivers continuous angina to our enemies.

    the fact that the man delivers continuous angina to our enemies.

    I don’t consider that a virtue, I consider that stupid short-sighted behavior that only plays into the hands of America’s real enemies – China, Russia, and the Islamic world. A real leader would try to persuade and encourage as many talented Americans as possible to join him. An America that alienates half the people with an IQ over 120 probably doesn’t have a long term future. Reagan may have made mistakes, but he understood that point. So did Churchill. Trump does not. On that point Trump is more like Pol Pot, encouraging the stupid to attack the educated.

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    • Agree: International Jew
    • Replies: @Coemgen
    Trump is playing with the hand he's been dealt against a fanatically ideological faction--that half of 120+ I.Q. types--who despise "half" of U.S. citizens. Those ideologues are greasing the skids for our "real enemies" to slide on in and take whatever they wish from U.S. citizens. If Trump has an unconventional way of dealing with the ideologues; at least he is trying to deal with them. He also needs the support of 90% of U.S. Citizens who are not 120+ I.Q. elitist ideologues. For that end, he needs to express himself in terms the 90% understand. If that gives some people the vapors, well, that may be a feature not a bug.

    On the subject of "attacks"--the politically motivated violence since Trump was elected has been overwhelmingly leftists attacking non-leftists.
    , @Anonymous
    You have a point; both us know that Trump isn't capable of that kind of enlightened leadership. Still I love the apoplexy he causes. They can't even, but I can :)
    , @International Jew

    Trump is more like Pol Pot, encouraging the stupid to attack the educated.
     
    Yep. When it comes to Trump, I'm with (the more recent) Ann Coulter: I voted for him not because of his character and his rhetorical style but in spite of them. That is, I viewed the immigration issue as so important, that I was willing to take the only candidate who "got it", despite his flaws.

    Now a year into his tenure, I see I got the idiot I knew about, but little of the immigration policy I hoped for.

    , @Dissident

    America’s real enemies – China, Russia, and the Islamic world.
     
    Just how is Russia-- the Russia of today-- an enemy of the U.S.?

    China is a rival but need it be an enemy?

    Is the entire Islamic world an enemy of the U.S.? Need the entire Islamic world be so? Would they be so if not for the pernicious Invade the World folly that our Respectable class has foisted upon us?

    How many actual enemies would we have if we were to simply heed George Washington's warning to avoid foreign entanglements?
    -----------

    In response to your exchange with the Anonymous who had praised President Trump for "the fact that the man delivers continuous angina to our enemies.", a statement to which you took exception, I say the following.

    I want a President to be hated and feared by Cultural Marxists; SJWs and Sanctimonious Goodwhites; war-mongering Globalists; brazenly buggering, disease-promoting degenerates*; and all other pernicious, noxious, corrosive and predatory vermin. I do not want a President to indulge in pissing contests and other vulgar, unseemly, puerile antics that are often gratuitously and excessively malicious and always pointless.

    *Graphic content

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  291. @MEH 0910

    There’ll be some variants from the Southern states, with the corrupted form “Belsebubba”. Most of them work at auto junkyards, not the government, though.

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  292. @guest
    They were still teaching me square dancing after the Long March Through the Institutions. The Boomer Generation certainly didn't enjoy folk music because of its whiteness. Rather, they like it in spite of its whiteness. Or at least that part of it which is white in origin. Funnily enough, the Fords of the world made a lot of mistakes, and attributed un-white music to whites.

    Henry Ford, by the way, was influential and did promote Americana for partially racist reasons. He was also never part of the Establishment, though his foundation was. The Establishment made fun of him, including in a rather embarrassing visit to the witness stand. If educrats were pushing square dancing instruction in the 70s and 80s, rest assured it was NOT because of Ford.

    Why did they, then? Well, our school system feeds the fire under the melting pot. They love synthetic culture, including propping up dead culture. Persistent popular dance forms don't need to be taught in school. You can go somewhere to learn the fox-trot, Charleston, swing, and other forms associated with jazz. You can also go learn to waltz and polka, two white dance forms that don't get taught in school.

    Square dancing and line dancing may be taught in barns and honky-tonks in certain parts of the country. I wouldn't know. But most people will never encounter them in real life. Not counting that one line routine people do at wedding receptions. So there's a purpose to teaching them in school.

    I'm one of those weirdos who doesn't necessarily hold malign origins* against something, if it's valuable. Which may or may not be the case with square dancing. But the simple fact that it was promoted due to racism doesn't have to be no thang. So was birth control, among other things in which good Current Year citizens believe.

    By the way, I like a lot of jazz, but I'm not crazy about the style of dance associated with it. I watch Jane Austen costume dramas sometimes and wonder, "Why don't we do that instead of gyrating like the possessed?"

    *Not that preserving white culture for the sake of whiteness is a bad thing.

    I was made to do square dancing and line dancing in my gym class in junior high in the mid ’90s.

    It was hell. We spent an entire quarter of the school year doing that. All I could do was bear the burden stoically and wait for the time to pass by.

    Apart from the fact that I wasn’t technically starving to death or sleeping in frozen, lice-infested bunkers, I’ve never felt public school to be much different from being in the gulag.

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  293. @Reg Cæsar

    Try typing in “Soros”, or one of its early variants, like “Beelzebub “.
     
    Considering that Soros is an Esperanto name, how do others of that "ethnicity" perform? Are they citizens of the world?

    Considering that Soros is an Esperanto name, how do others of that “ethnicity” perform? Are they citizens of the world?

    Yes, and lots of them are dual citizens. at that. They carry another passport to their other homeland down below.

    Thanks, that’s all I got for the morning. Try the new Macron post, tastes like frog. Don’t forget to tip your host.

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  294. Bill says:
    @snorlax
    "Cohen" and variants denote membership in ancient Judaism's priestly caste (similar to Brahmins), who (historically and in Orthodox Judaism) are also outright forbidden to marry gentiles, converts or half-Jews, so if it isn't a particularly prestigious surname it would seem to contradict both the thesis of this post and HBD explanations for Ashkenazi achievement.

    Isn’t the HBD explanation for Ashkenazi achievement that 1) there was a founding event during which the Ashkenazim became 50/50 Semites and northern Europeans and 2) then they were bred for intelligence for 1000 years? The story is that the smart genes came from the northern Europeans (or maybe from hybrid vigor) and then were selected for. Palestinian Jews aren’t particularly bright. So, walling off a sub-population from further admixture seems not especially likely to be an IQ-enhancing thing. Also, it seems like the effects would be very small since the in-migrating genes only have to wait a generation or two to migrate into the Cohens and since in-migrating European genes were not much of a thing post-founding-event anyway. So, seems consistent to me.

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    • Replies: @International Jew

    Palestinian Jews aren’t particularly bright.
     
    You wouldn't say that if you'd studied Talmud — composed by "Palestinian" and Mesopotamian Jews between 200 and 600 AD.

    Granted only a small elite actually produced the Talmud, but it says something about the wider society of the time, that they viewed the scholars as their leaders and role models. And if you're unsure about that, then reflect for a moment about what the descent of American culture — from Bing Crosby to Elvis and on to Snoop Dogg, or from Barry Goldwater to Reagan and on to Trump — says about the moral and intellectual condition of our wider society.

    , @syonredux

    Isn’t the HBD explanation for Ashkenazi achievement that 1) there was a founding event during which the Ashkenazim became 50/50 Semites and northern Europeans and 2)
     
    Mostly Italian:

    Here they’re looking at finer details. When they analyze the origins of the European component of Ashkenazi ancestry, they conclude that most is southern – probably Italian, but that smaller amounts originated from (probably) Western Europe and (more certainly) Eastern Europe: and in that temporal order. They conclude that the Italian admixture slightly predated a late medieval founder event. Different methods came up with somewhat different estimates for the total amount of European ancestry: the local ancestry inference (LAI) approach came up with 53% European, while the GLOBETROTTER analysis came up with an estimate of 67% European ancestry (after calibration by simulations). In their best guess, they split the difference and go for 60% European.

    To sum up, their model is that a population from the Levant mixed with Italians, and shortly thereafter moved to the Rhineland (the founding bottleneck), perhaps mixing to some degree with the local Europeans there, and certainly mixing some with Slavic types when they moved to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
     
    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2016/07/20/even-more-on-ashkenazi-ancestry/

    The story is that the smart genes came from the northern Europeans (or maybe from hybrid vigor) and then were selected for.

     

    Cochran's theory is that high Ashkenazi IQ was due to the fact that they specialized in "White Collar" jobs:

    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.163.3711&rep=rep1&type=pdf

    "Natural History of Ashkenazi Intelligence"[edit]
    "Natural History of Intelligence",[5] a 2005 paper by Gregory Cochran, Jason Hardy, and Henry Harpending, put forth the conjecture that the unique conditions under which Ashkenazi Jews lived in medieval Europe selected for high verbal and mathematical intelligence but not spatial intelligence. Their paper has four main premises:

    Today's Ashkenazi Jews have a higher average mathematical and verbal IQ and an unusual cognitive profile compared to other ethnic groups, including Sephardi and Oriental Jews.
    From roughly 800 to 1650 CE, Ashkenazi Jews in Europe were a mostly isolated genetic group. When Ashkenazi Jews married non-Jews, they usually left the Jewish community; few non-Jews married into the Jewish community.
    During the same period, laws barred Ashkenazi Jews from working most jobs, including farming and crafts, and forced them into finance, management, and international trade. Wealthy Jews had several more children per family than poor Jews. So, genes for cognitive traits such as verbal and mathematical talent, which make a person successful in the few fields where Jews could work, were favored; genes for irrelevant traits, such as spatio-visual abilities, were supported by less selective pressure than in the general population.
    Today's Ashkenazi Jews suffer from a number of congenital diseases and mutations at higher rates than most other ethnic groups; these include Tay-Sachs, Gaucher's disease, Bloom's syndrome, and Fanconi anemia, and mutations at BRCA1 and BRCA2. These mutations' effects cluster in only a few metabolic pathways, suggesting that they arise from selective pressure rather than genetic drift. One cluster of these diseases affects sphingolipid storage, a secondary effect of which is increased growth of axons and dendrites. At least one of the diseases in this cluster, torsion dystonia, has been found to correlate with high IQ. Another cluster disrupts DNA repair, an extremely dangerous sort of mutation which is lethal in homozygotes. The authors speculate that these mutations give a cognitive benefit to heterozygotes by reducing inhibitions to neural growth, a benefit that would not outweigh its high costs except in an environment where it was strongly rewarded.

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence#"Natural_History_of_Ashkenazi_Intelligence"
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  295. @James Kabala
    It is interesting to put in surnames known mainly because of one celebrity and learn just how rare they are. We have 183 Malkoviches, 146 Zellwegers, and 109 Vonneguts. Names that fail to hit 100 at all include Belichick, Kardashian, and both Sajak and Trebek (of course the latter is really from Canada).

    There are 159 Obamas. (Are they all authentic Kenyans, or could some be eccentrics/fanatics who changed their names? It would be interesting to compare with the 2000 census.)

    There are 3,886 Trumps. Trump’s ancestral surname of Drumpf does not make 100.

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  296. @Jim Christian
    My last name was once a name of privilege perhaps, no impediment even for many a Jewish lass years ago. Not sure if the same 'pop' comes from the last name Christian these days as many years ago. My Pop was Federal, he was in the GS teens, 14 or 15 back then, don't remember where. Since, you'd need a Masters to reach that. Not sure if that's tip-top for the name..

    In Britain it was common until fairly recently to refer to first names as Christian names even if the person concerned was not a christian–the term had no more religious connotation than terms like Act of God. Traditional large numbers of British people have had first names found in the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, plus the names of saints like St. George, St. Margaret, and so on.

    There are many British surnames that are though to have come from roles played in pageants or local connections, some of which are religious, or appear religious, for example Abbey, Abbot, Dean, Saint, St. John, Pope, Bishop, Priest, Priestley, Pilgrim, Canon, Church, Kirk, Pew, Bell, Cross, Graves, King, Queen, Lord, Earl, Duke, Squires.

    Of course many Christian names became surnames in the next generations, such as Peters, Matthews, Johnson, and so on.

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    • Replies: @Jim Christian

    Of course many Christian names became surnames in the next generations, such as Peters, Matthews, Johnson, and so on.
     
    Well, the old Scots-Irish I come from used Christian as a surname long before they turned up in the New World. Must have happened long before my Christians (actual last name Christian) were brought here through the old Jamestown Company. They were named Benton and Milhouse (haus?) and other boring first names followed by the surname. From records of others that also came into Jamestown, I suspect they were all debtors, real or created. Debtor's prisons were good sources of manpower. Saw some accounts at Fairfax County Library in Virginia that Jamestown supposedly bought them out of debt and at that point had a new 'employee' to clear lumber, kill Injuns and settle the country West of the Blue Ridge. Whether the original Christians got old and their children scattered or perhaps they'd worked off their debt, but finally, their journey ended around what became Nashville and Milton, Tn with 40 acres and a mule, to quote a phrase. They married into the Wrights, moved off to Kill Devil Hills returned, the cycle went on for 125 or 150 years before my Dad came along. Of course, the Wrights tinkered with bicycles, I understand. Probably some inbreeding there, explains my idiocy at times, but tips off why I went to the recruiter and told him I wanted to work on flight decks and play with airplanes.
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  297. @Rosamond Vincy
    He made it up. Riffing on Greek words pronounced with silent P in English: pseudo, pneumonia, psoriasis.

    What about the silent P in “swimming”? (!!!!) (Rim-shot.)

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  298. Coemgen says:
    @Peter Akuleyev
    the fact that the man delivers continuous angina to our enemies.

    I don't consider that a virtue, I consider that stupid short-sighted behavior that only plays into the hands of America's real enemies - China, Russia, and the Islamic world. A real leader would try to persuade and encourage as many talented Americans as possible to join him. An America that alienates half the people with an IQ over 120 probably doesn't have a long term future. Reagan may have made mistakes, but he understood that point. So did Churchill. Trump does not. On that point Trump is more like Pol Pot, encouraging the stupid to attack the educated.

    Trump is playing with the hand he’s been dealt against a fanatically ideological faction–that half of 120+ I.Q. types–who despise “half” of U.S. citizens. Those ideologues are greasing the skids for our “real enemies” to slide on in and take whatever they wish from U.S. citizens. If Trump has an unconventional way of dealing with the ideologues; at least he is trying to deal with them. He also needs the support of 90% of U.S. Citizens who are not 120+ I.Q. elitist ideologues. For that end, he needs to express himself in terms the 90% understand. If that gives some people the vapors, well, that may be a feature not a bug.

    On the subject of “attacks”–the politically motivated violence since Trump was elected has been overwhelmingly leftists attacking non-leftists.

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  299. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Peter Akuleyev
    the fact that the man delivers continuous angina to our enemies.

    I don't consider that a virtue, I consider that stupid short-sighted behavior that only plays into the hands of America's real enemies - China, Russia, and the Islamic world. A real leader would try to persuade and encourage as many talented Americans as possible to join him. An America that alienates half the people with an IQ over 120 probably doesn't have a long term future. Reagan may have made mistakes, but he understood that point. So did Churchill. Trump does not. On that point Trump is more like Pol Pot, encouraging the stupid to attack the educated.

    You have a point; both us know that Trump isn’t capable of that kind of enlightened leadership. Still I love the apoplexy he causes. They can’t even, but I can :)

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