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Breed and gender are just social constructs.

It’s only media stereotypes that make longhorn steers behave different than Holstein heifers.

That’s why in the Sugar Bowl the U. of Texas longhorn mascot Bevo went all hook ’em horns on the U. of Georgia mascot Uga the Bulldog: stereotypes.

Actually, in the crisis, Uga got the hell out of there a lot more nimbly than the stereotype of the notoriously overbred Georgia mascot would have suggested.

From the Ledger-Enquirer:

Georgia athletics: Uga breeder Sonny Seiler defends lineage in wake of premature deaths of past two mascots

BY SETH EMERSON – [email protected]

MAY 28, 2011 12:00 AM,

 
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  1. Mr. Alcohol is a mother fucker .

  2. I know a fellow who owns a bulldog from the same line as the Ugas. She’s had a rough go of it – nearly blind and quite overweight – but she’s also darling and genuinely intelligent.

    Shouldn’t Uga be genetically predisposed to chomping down on and holding on to Bevo’s schnoz, though?

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas

    Shouldn’t Uga be genetically predisposed to chomping down on and holding on to Bevo’s schnoz, though?
     
    The original English Bulldog (so named for bull and bear-baiting) much more closely resembled what is now the American Bulldog in type with a much more aggressive temperament. Outlawing bull-baiting and bear-baiting precipitously decreased demand for large aggressive dogs.

    The brachycephalic mess that is Uga is the result of breeding for an exaggerated type (oversized head requiring surgery for live births) and not for bull-baiting.
  3. I own several Texas Longhorns. They’re actually regarded as a pretty sweet-tempered breed. My Angus are generally more aggressive than my Longhorns.

    Holstein bulls, on the other hand, are widely acknowledged as some of the most dangerous of all cattle The heifers are OK, but there are probably more injuries per capita from Holstein cows than from any beef breed like Longhorns just because through heavy interaction in barns milking parlors there is more opportunity, plus Holstein cows don’t have any fear of humans, and when a 1,000 pound animal that’s not afraid of you decides to throw its weight around, it’s very dangerous. Beef cattle who live their lives in pasture typically like to keep their distance: “Don’t start none, won’t be none.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Revy O famously commented:

    One may see a good analogy in the cattle that are raised in the southwestern part of the United States. For a long time, the favorite breed was the ‘Texas Long-horn,’ which was hardy, able to fight off coyotes and other predators, and to survive in the wilds until it was rounded up by the cowboys for a long drive to the market, but it was also a dangerous animal that would attack its owners when provoked. It is now virtually extinct, having been replaced on the ranches by more docile breeds, such as the ‘Black Angus,’ since the predators have been exterminated and the cattle now graze within fences or are simply fattened on corn provided for them, and the vigor of the potentially dangerous ‘Longhorn’ is no longer needed, while the more docile and sluggish animals yield more tender meat.

    Early in the Twentieth Century, Aryans had, for all practical purposes, subjugated the entire world and made it everywhere both safe and convenient for the Jews, whereas events in Germany in the 1930s proved that Aryans could be dangerous to the Master Race, if they got out of control. Elimination of the species seems therefore a logical step for the self-styled ‘God-people.’
     
    But the good Doctor was, we must admit, no cattleman. As I am not either: if you tell me you own Longhorns and they are good natured I'll believe it.

    Some of the Parkway West Longhorns I knew, though, were peckerheads, but that's another story. I don't claim the school, I just went there under duress. I went to CAP at the rival HS, Lindbergh, and I liked those guys better for the most part.
    , @Redneck farmer
    Jersey bulls are worse.
    , @dr kill
    Jersey bulls. Not Holstein.
    , @Simply Simon
    What is incredible about Holsteins is the amount of milk a cow produces in one day. Stop me if I am wrong Cloudbuster but I believe in some dairy barns they are milked three times a day. Again by some method of genetic engineering the Holstein cow is much larger than the same breed I saw years ago. Please expand on that if you are inclined to do so. As for Bevo that bull lives a pampered life except the time one of the earlier Bevos was kidnapped by Aggies , but later re-captured before the Aggies had a chance to turn him into barbeque.
    , @Olorin
    Agree absolutely on your points about Longhorns. Dunno how close, or through what pathways, they are to aurochs...but aurochs were domesticable, partly a function of essential character.

    Agree also on Holstein "danger." Also on how pasturing has beneficial behavioral effects, though one must select herd members for their fit with those systems. But we all thrive when our daily environments respect our breeding.

    Regarding dairy cows, many of these large animals are exposed to treatment completely at odds with how they're hardwired. You've probably seen vids of the large dairy cows in NZ who are milked in robotic parlors, on schedules of their own determination. They appear to be much calmer and happier than animals driven, grabbed, shoved, etc.

    I don't even want to think about some of what I've seen in servicing/insemination. What always amazed me was that these animals are as patient as they are.

    I've long assumed that one reason for the reputation of Holstein "danger" is that Holsteins are often, and in some cases increasingly, bred for hormonal excess (i.e., milk and sperm production, also size and efficiency of forage conversion).

    If you go to the National Dairy Shrine and look at the wall of the champion Holsteins over the past 80 years, you can observe this. It would be silly not to expect this to come out in behavioral characteristics as well. Since likely the majority of farm systems are engineered for the convenience of the farmer/labor crew, and investors, not for the comfort or convenience of the animals, there is plenty of cause for them to feel peeved, threatened, angry, bored/twitchy, etc. And although I've had many farmers assure me that their cattle don't have feelings, my experience is that they do have emotional lives--quite rich ones, in some cases more than their owners'.

    IIRC the current record Holstein lactation per year is over 72,000 pounds; the average is something like 23,000 pounds. That's a big spread.

    But whatever the case, cattle do not belong in a colosseum with 100,000 screaming people, bright lights, things flashing/exploding, etc.

    Not to mention that a bull taking a swipe at a bull-dog should surprise no one. Then again humans associated with football tend to be pretty stupid IME, and football announcers are next door to morons.

  4. I know a fellow who owns a bulldog from the same line as the Ugas. She’s had a rough go of it — nearly blind and quite overweight — but she’s darling and genuinely intelligent.

    Shouldn’t Uga be genetically predisposed to chomp down on Bevo’s schnoz in this scenario, though?

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    Sadly, that instinct has probably been bred out.

    I have a border collie/lab/pit bull mix, about 60 pounds, and it's amazing to watch him back down a 2,000 pound bull. He'll snarl and go right for the nose. He won't do it all the time -- it depends how committed he is in the situation and how committed the cow or bull is. Sometimes he knows to just get out of the way (cow guarding her calf, say, and he doesn't have any reason to try to move her or stand his ground.) He knows when to hold them and when to fold them. :)
    , @jack daniels
    Are you talking about Bevo O'Rourke? I always knew he was full of bull.
  5. There was a comment to your google, cowboy post that mentioned bulldogs were used to wrestle steers. Maybe Bevo epigenetically hates Uga.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Bevo was a near beer like beverage made by Anheuser Busch during Prohibition, and abandoned shortly thereafter. The Bevo Mill was a St. Louis era fixture for decades, though. A restaurant shaped like a windmill, I think it has closed down now.


    Bevo Howard was one of the great airshow aerobatic display pilots, killed in the late 60s as I recall.
  6. Instead of some kind of predator, Texas has a domesticated, plant-eating, food source as its mascot.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    It's still way better than the Oregon (tiny?) Ducks.
    , @Jack Hanson
    Go show it who's boss then stud.
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    That when part of a group that decide it's time to stampede, are pretty much unstoppable, leaving a trail of carnage in their wake.
    , @Hypnotoad666

    Instead of some kind of predator, Texas has a domesticated, plant-eating, food source as its mascot.
     
    Having a castrated mascot doesn't really send the optimal message, either.
    , @Aardvark
    At least it seems like a viable animal. The bulldog wouldn’t last 15 minutes outdoors if it actually had to be a predator. Whoever was responsible for the selective breeding that produced the pathetic and useless bulldog did no service to man or the canine breed.
  7. Stereotypes

    How is this for a stereotype:

    The iSteve blog whizzes along at seven posts already in 2019 (as of 7:30 PM Pacific Jan. 1, 2019). That’s on pace for 8.5 per day.

    If this pace holds, the 200 mark could be approached already by Saint Martin the Noble Day (observed Jan. 21). iSteve has had only one 200-post month AFAICT: August 2017 (211 posts). January 2018 came close, clocking in at 194 posts.

    In the words of iSteve commenter Ali Choudhury,

    Ali Choudhury says:
    July 13, 2018 at 3:38 am GMT

    That is 9 posts in one day. Please slow down.

    Disagree: TheBoom

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    I am certain that Ali is a troll based on "Mr Know-All."
  8. Major fail on the part of the longhorn’s handlers. They should have had it under much better control.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    An animal that size does whatever it wants. It's not physically possible for the handlers to restrain it. You just desensitize, condition and communicate, but if something goes pear-shaped, a steer that size can't be "controlled" by a couple guys and a rope lead.
  9. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Cloudbuster
    I own several Texas Longhorns. They're actually regarded as a pretty sweet-tempered breed. My Angus are generally more aggressive than my Longhorns.

    Holstein bulls, on the other hand, are widely acknowledged as some of the most dangerous of all cattle The heifers are OK, but there are probably more injuries per capita from Holstein cows than from any beef breed like Longhorns just because through heavy interaction in barns milking parlors there is more opportunity, plus Holstein cows don't have any fear of humans, and when a 1,000 pound animal that's not afraid of you decides to throw its weight around, it's very dangerous. Beef cattle who live their lives in pasture typically like to keep their distance: "Don't start none, won't be none."

    Revy O famously commented:

    One may see a good analogy in the cattle that are raised in the southwestern part of the United States. For a long time, the favorite breed was the ‘Texas Long-horn,’ which was hardy, able to fight off coyotes and other predators, and to survive in the wilds until it was rounded up by the cowboys for a long drive to the market, but it was also a dangerous animal that would attack its owners when provoked. It is now virtually extinct, having been replaced on the ranches by more docile breeds, such as the ‘Black Angus,’ since the predators have been exterminated and the cattle now graze within fences or are simply fattened on corn provided for them, and the vigor of the potentially dangerous ‘Longhorn’ is no longer needed, while the more docile and sluggish animals yield more tender meat.

    Early in the Twentieth Century, Aryans had, for all practical purposes, subjugated the entire world and made it everywhere both safe and convenient for the Jews, whereas events in Germany in the 1930s proved that Aryans could be dangerous to the Master Race, if they got out of control. Elimination of the species seems therefore a logical step for the self-styled ‘God-people.’

    But the good Doctor was, we must admit, no cattleman. As I am not either: if you tell me you own Longhorns and they are good natured I’ll believe it.

    Some of the Parkway West Longhorns I knew, though, were peckerheads, but that’s another story. I don’t claim the school, I just went there under duress. I went to CAP at the rival HS, Lindbergh, and I liked those guys better for the most part.

  10. Speaking of stereotypes why are more st football players Black Men? Strong athletic muscular suave

    Then you look at the female cheerleaders white girls with blue d hair blue eyes and tight firm bodies

    The two groups seem to go together and are attracted to each other

    Just think those beautiful white girls will be mothering dark skinned Chikdten of Color

  11. @Federalist
    Instead of some kind of predator, Texas has a domesticated, plant-eating, food source as its mascot.

    It’s still way better than the Oregon (tiny?) Ducks.

    • Troll: Tiny Duck.
  12. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dtbb
    There was a comment to your google, cowboy post that mentioned bulldogs were used to wrestle steers. Maybe Bevo epigenetically hates Uga.

    Bevo was a near beer like beverage made by Anheuser Busch during Prohibition, and abandoned shortly thereafter. The Bevo Mill was a St. Louis era fixture for decades, though. A restaurant shaped like a windmill, I think it has closed down now.

    Bevo Howard was one of the great airshow aerobatic display pilots, killed in the late 60s as I recall.

    • Replies: @hhsiii
    Bevo Francis once held the record for most points scored in a college basketball game:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bevo_Francis
  13. I’m about as helpless as a leaf in a gale …

  14. Beauty is fleeting , character is steady .

  15. @Anthony Wayne
    I know a fellow who owns a bulldog from the same line as the Ugas. She’s had a rough go of it - nearly blind and quite overweight - but she’s also darling and genuinely intelligent.

    Shouldn’t Uga be genetically predisposed to chomping down on and holding on to Bevo’s schnoz, though?

    Shouldn’t Uga be genetically predisposed to chomping down on and holding on to Bevo’s schnoz, though?

    The original English Bulldog (so named for bull and bear-baiting) much more closely resembled what is now the American Bulldog in type with a much more aggressive temperament. Outlawing bull-baiting and bear-baiting precipitously decreased demand for large aggressive dogs.

    The brachycephalic mess that is Uga is the result of breeding for an exaggerated type (oversized head requiring surgery for live births) and not for bull-baiting.

    • Replies: @International Jew

    The brachycephalic mess that is Uga
     
    Yep. Sad to see. Of all the ways people have thought of, to be cruel to animals...
  16. Come on Negro . Magical thinking beats science every time :

  17. >Breed and gender are just social constructs.

    And keep in mind he’s only a steer!

  18. There is a lie in here some where :

  19. Doesn’t really know anything about cows, but pontificates about them anyway, somehow shoehorning them into his hobbyhorse.

    • Troll: Cloudbuster
  20. Anon[319] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    I went looking for the leaked Louis CK audio and couldn’t find it, but judging from this snippet the audience was really belly laughing, and I personally thought it was really funny, even though I had already read it in printed form (which loses the delivery, plus made it easy to confuse which “character” is saying what).

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jackallisonLOL/status/1079538170960572416/video/1

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I never cared for him much before, but he's much funnier here than usual; irreverence is the essence of comedy.

    NPR recently broadcast a panel of (ostensible) comedians – including the once funny P.J. O'Rourke! – soberly debating whether Donald Trump was bad for comedy (whatever the Hell that even means).

    People like Louis C.K. seem to be getting it. Doubling down unapologetically is the only proper response to The Man's fingerwagging, especially in comedy.

    He did make a movie with Woody Allen once, though, so maybe he has had some questionable dalliances with adventuresses...but who cares, as long as it was consensual?
  21. We Colorado Buffaloes know a thing or two about large mammals. Heck, some of us are large mammals.

    I remember when a certain history professor told our class that ours was basically a large, midwestern university, with all the “stereotypes” that go with that. It was like a kick in the groin, but he was right.

    After all, we have a live mascot named Ralphie:

    Ralphie is actually a girl. A male buffalo would be too much to handle; he might eat little bulldog mascots — or kill Texas longhorns.

  22. @prosa123
    Major fail on the part of the longhorn's handlers. They should have had it under much better control.

    An animal that size does whatever it wants. It’s not physically possible for the handlers to restrain it. You just desensitize, condition and communicate, but if something goes pear-shaped, a steer that size can’t be “controlled” by a couple guys and a rope lead.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Your point is just an a fortiori argument for his; maybe these animals shouldn't be paraded around a sportsball arena to entertain a bunch of yahoos.

    When was the last time a lion or a tiger got out of hand during a ballgame in Detroit? Oh, right; the NFL has the sense to dress people in costumes instead of exploiting animals and endangering humans. The costumed actors are probably more entertaining, too: the San Diego Chicken is more fun any day of the week than a discomited bull on a leash.

    P.S.: Has doughnut finally lost it altogether? Doughy, sober up and hit the gym in the new year; we're rooting for you!

    , @Buffalo Joe
    Cloud, we used to visit and work on a farm when I was a kid. I remember that the stud bull, since replaced by artificial insemination, were large scary beasts. However, there was a brass ring through its nose that made it much easier to control than a lead. The farmer hooked a stout stick through the ring and bent the bull to his command. Still a very scary animal.
  23. @Anthony Wayne
    I know a fellow who owns a bulldog from the same line as the Ugas. She’s had a rough go of it — nearly blind and quite overweight — but she’s darling and genuinely intelligent.

    Shouldn’t Uga be genetically predisposed to chomp down on Bevo’s schnoz in this scenario, though?

    Sadly, that instinct has probably been bred out.

    I have a border collie/lab/pit bull mix, about 60 pounds, and it’s amazing to watch him back down a 2,000 pound bull. He’ll snarl and go right for the nose. He won’t do it all the time — it depends how committed he is in the situation and how committed the cow or bull is. Sometimes he knows to just get out of the way (cow guarding her calf, say, and he doesn’t have any reason to try to move her or stand his ground.) He knows when to hold them and when to fold them. 🙂

    • Replies: @anon
    But I bet you don't work your dog with cattle who aren't polled or dehorned.
    , @Autochthon
    Did you name him Brady?

    https://youtu.be/kNnrTNFWcsg
  24. Nothin’ has changed :

    Take that pussy !

  25. @Cloudbuster
    Sadly, that instinct has probably been bred out.

    I have a border collie/lab/pit bull mix, about 60 pounds, and it's amazing to watch him back down a 2,000 pound bull. He'll snarl and go right for the nose. He won't do it all the time -- it depends how committed he is in the situation and how committed the cow or bull is. Sometimes he knows to just get out of the way (cow guarding her calf, say, and he doesn't have any reason to try to move her or stand his ground.) He knows when to hold them and when to fold them. :)

    But I bet you don’t work your dog with cattle who aren’t polled or dehorned.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    Yes, I do. As I said in an earlier post, I have Texas Longhorns in my herd.
  26. Hey Biggus Dickus post my shit .

  27. @Alec Leamas

    Shouldn’t Uga be genetically predisposed to chomping down on and holding on to Bevo’s schnoz, though?
     
    The original English Bulldog (so named for bull and bear-baiting) much more closely resembled what is now the American Bulldog in type with a much more aggressive temperament. Outlawing bull-baiting and bear-baiting precipitously decreased demand for large aggressive dogs.

    The brachycephalic mess that is Uga is the result of breeding for an exaggerated type (oversized head requiring surgery for live births) and not for bull-baiting.

    The brachycephalic mess that is Uga

    Yep. Sad to see. Of all the ways people have thought of, to be cruel to animals…

    • Replies: @schwinger
    Given the deformed monstrosity we have turned some dog breeds into, I wonder if eugenics will be a very bad idea.

    Instead of Von Neumanns, we might get docile 7 feet guys with knee problems, dying of heart attack at 40!
  28. @Federalist
    Instead of some kind of predator, Texas has a domesticated, plant-eating, food source as its mascot.

    Go show it who’s boss then stud.

    • Replies: @Federalist
    It's shown who's boss first when it's castrated and again when its turned into steaks. Its a species whose whole existence is dominated by humans. Cattle are great because beef is delicious, but they are not noble animals suitable for a mascot. They are food.

    To stick with the same general theme, you could go with the cowboy as a mascot or with his horse. Horse and man work together. A cowboy or a general in olden days might name his favorite horse. The horse and man are almost friends, but man slaughters cattle.
  29. When I kept a hobby farm with Dexter cattle, I had one cow I’d never turn my back on. She was my best milker so it precipitated a lot of interaction to wrangle her into a stanchion, and even then I’ve been kicked and gored.

    Dealing with cattle outside of factory farming set ups is a risky proposition, and even then, with millions of dollars of safety equipment, shit happens.

    I have a mastiff, and she had a natural antipathy to that cow, who stood her ground while the other Dexters (including the bull) would give way. I think it came down to who wanted to be the baddest bitch on the ranch.

    • Replies: @Simply Simon
    I am not a student of animal behavior but cows I found have traits just like humans. As with humans there is always an individual who stands out from the rest. When I was growing up on a small farm in Ohio there was one cow who was the bane of my existence or so it seemed to me. This cow had the propensity to break through fences and end up eating the forbidden fruit of the neighbor's field which was corn. This happened on a too frequent basis so in desperation I constructed a device that put an end to this cow's mischief. It was a cruel looking affair consisting of a long board that was fastened to a chain around her neck and was dragged between her legs. Any attempt to crash through a fence was met with failure because the front end of the board would catch in the fence and prevent her from going through. Today I am sure this device would be met with great disapproval by the SPCA.
    Prior to this invention our cows managed to escape their environs and end up in the center of the small village that neighbored our farm. That evening there was a knock on our door by a man who advised us of our stampeding herd and I ran downtown to round them up. I managed to get them home and placed them inside the barn until I could find their escape route. I don't exactly suffer pangs of nostalgia about that affair but the memory remains so many years later.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Jack, Gored? As in partially eviscerated? Or just smacked hard by the horns. When I worked on a farm all the cows had been dehorned.
  30. • Replies: @Kylie
    One of the greatest scenes in movies. Melvyn Douglas, the actor who made goo goo eyes at Garbo, Irene Dunne and Myrna Loy in light comedies, gives an absolutely towering performance full of grace and gravitas in this movie.
  31. @Cloudbuster
    I own several Texas Longhorns. They're actually regarded as a pretty sweet-tempered breed. My Angus are generally more aggressive than my Longhorns.

    Holstein bulls, on the other hand, are widely acknowledged as some of the most dangerous of all cattle The heifers are OK, but there are probably more injuries per capita from Holstein cows than from any beef breed like Longhorns just because through heavy interaction in barns milking parlors there is more opportunity, plus Holstein cows don't have any fear of humans, and when a 1,000 pound animal that's not afraid of you decides to throw its weight around, it's very dangerous. Beef cattle who live their lives in pasture typically like to keep their distance: "Don't start none, won't be none."

    Jersey bulls are worse.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    I'll take your word for it. I don't raise dairy cattle.
  32. @International Jew

    The brachycephalic mess that is Uga
     
    Yep. Sad to see. Of all the ways people have thought of, to be cruel to animals...

    Given the deformed monstrosity we have turned some dog breeds into, I wonder if eugenics will be a very bad idea.

    Instead of Von Neumanns, we might get docile 7 feet guys with knee problems, dying of heart attack at 40!

  33. @Federalist
    Instead of some kind of predator, Texas has a domesticated, plant-eating, food source as its mascot.

    That when part of a group that decide it’s time to stampede, are pretty much unstoppable, leaving a trail of carnage in their wake.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    That when part of a group that decide it’s time to stampede, are pretty much unstoppable, leaving a trail of carnage in their wake.
     
    That's what the Wall is meant to prevent. And most of it will be in Texas.
  34. @anon
    But I bet you don't work your dog with cattle who aren't polled or dehorned.

    Yes, I do. As I said in an earlier post, I have Texas Longhorns in my herd.

  35. Bevo felt the urge to show people why you should never try to mess with Texas.

  36. 1960s-2010 left: gender differences are ONLY about plumbing. girls and boys are identical in all other ways, psychological/emotional/what have you. the only reason girls like fashion and boys like MMA is because as babies girls were given dolls and boys were given toy guns.

    current left: gender differences have NOTHING to do with plumbing. it ONLY has to do with emotional and psychological differences, which are stark and objectively real. boys can have girl plumbing and vice versa.

  37. “longhorn steers behave different than Holstein heifers”: but Holsteins are just a social construct. We call them Friesians in Britain. Which proves it. Dunnit?

  38. @Cloudbuster
    An animal that size does whatever it wants. It's not physically possible for the handlers to restrain it. You just desensitize, condition and communicate, but if something goes pear-shaped, a steer that size can't be "controlled" by a couple guys and a rope lead.

    Your point is just an a fortiori argument for his; maybe these animals shouldn’t be paraded around a sportsball arena to entertain a bunch of yahoos.

    When was the last time a lion or a tiger got out of hand during a ballgame in Detroit? Oh, right; the NFL has the sense to dress people in costumes instead of exploiting animals and endangering humans. The costumed actors are probably more entertaining, too: the San Diego Chicken is more fun any day of the week than a discomited bull on a leash.

    P.S.: Has doughnut finally lost it altogether? Doughy, sober up and hit the gym in the new year; we’re rooting for you!

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
    • Replies: @Kyle
    I'm not sure if they still do but at one point univesity of memphis had a tiger in a cage. A london zoo style iron bar cage. I find this to be hilarious. The ultimate example of Southern bourgeoisie culture, and mans domain over god.
    , @Kylie
    "P.S.: Has doughnut finally lost it altogether? Doughy, sober up and hit the gym in the new year; we’re rooting for you!"

    There are moments when I seem able to follow his train of thought. These always make me uneasy.

    Whatever. He posts clips of good music and good movies. His reasons are his own.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    P.S.: Has doughnut finally lost it altogether? Doughy, sober up and hit the gym in the new year; we’re rooting for you!
     
    He leaves out the ugh, even though it would seem most appropriate.
  39. @Jack Hanson
    Go show it who's boss then stud.

    It’s shown who’s boss first when it’s castrated and again when its turned into steaks. Its a species whose whole existence is dominated by humans. Cattle are great because beef is delicious, but they are not noble animals suitable for a mascot. They are food.

    To stick with the same general theme, you could go with the cowboy as a mascot or with his horse. Horse and man work together. A cowboy or a general in olden days might name his favorite horse. The horse and man are almost friends, but man slaughters cattle.

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    You should have just said "I am someone who has never dealt with cattle outside of a possibly carefully controlled encounter" and saved us the trouble of reading some high grade 'tism.

    Prove me wrong by walking up to a range steer and threatening to turn him into steaks, turbo. It'll be an entertaining obituary.
  40. @Anon
    OT

    I went looking for the leaked Louis CK audio and couldn't find it, but judging from this snippet the audience was really belly laughing, and I personally thought it was really funny, even though I had already read it in printed form (which loses the delivery, plus made it easy to confuse which "character" is saying what).

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jackallisonLOL/status/1079538170960572416/video/1

    I never cared for him much before, but he’s much funnier here than usual; irreverence is the essence of comedy.

    NPR recently broadcast a panel of (ostensible) comedians – including the once funny P.J. O’Rourke! – soberly debating whether Donald Trump was bad for comedy (whatever the Hell that even means).

    People like Louis C.K. seem to be getting it. Doubling down unapologetically is the only proper response to The Man’s fingerwagging, especially in comedy.

    He did make a movie with Woody Allen once, though, so maybe he has had some questionable dalliances with adventuresses…but who cares, as long as it was consensual?

  41. @Cloudbuster
    Sadly, that instinct has probably been bred out.

    I have a border collie/lab/pit bull mix, about 60 pounds, and it's amazing to watch him back down a 2,000 pound bull. He'll snarl and go right for the nose. He won't do it all the time -- it depends how committed he is in the situation and how committed the cow or bull is. Sometimes he knows to just get out of the way (cow guarding her calf, say, and he doesn't have any reason to try to move her or stand his ground.) He knows when to hold them and when to fold them. :)

    Did you name him Brady?

  42. @Cloudbuster
    I own several Texas Longhorns. They're actually regarded as a pretty sweet-tempered breed. My Angus are generally more aggressive than my Longhorns.

    Holstein bulls, on the other hand, are widely acknowledged as some of the most dangerous of all cattle The heifers are OK, but there are probably more injuries per capita from Holstein cows than from any beef breed like Longhorns just because through heavy interaction in barns milking parlors there is more opportunity, plus Holstein cows don't have any fear of humans, and when a 1,000 pound animal that's not afraid of you decides to throw its weight around, it's very dangerous. Beef cattle who live their lives in pasture typically like to keep their distance: "Don't start none, won't be none."

    Jersey bulls. Not Holstein.

  43. @Federalist
    Instead of some kind of predator, Texas has a domesticated, plant-eating, food source as its mascot.

    Instead of some kind of predator, Texas has a domesticated, plant-eating, food source as its mascot.

    Having a castrated mascot doesn’t really send the optimal message, either.

    • Agree: Federalist
    • Replies: @Stan d Mute

    Having a castrated mascot doesn’t really send the optimal message, either.
     
    I guess that all depends on what you believe the optimal message really is. Looking at where the nation, and in particular the education system is headed, a castrated mascot is the ideal mascot.
  44. @donut
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gVa4FAikBg&t=2s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DIWiZHcP08

    One of the greatest scenes in movies. Melvyn Douglas, the actor who made goo goo eyes at Garbo, Irene Dunne and Myrna Loy in light comedies, gives an absolutely towering performance full of grace and gravitas in this movie.

    • Agree: donut
  45. @Cloudbuster
    I own several Texas Longhorns. They're actually regarded as a pretty sweet-tempered breed. My Angus are generally more aggressive than my Longhorns.

    Holstein bulls, on the other hand, are widely acknowledged as some of the most dangerous of all cattle The heifers are OK, but there are probably more injuries per capita from Holstein cows than from any beef breed like Longhorns just because through heavy interaction in barns milking parlors there is more opportunity, plus Holstein cows don't have any fear of humans, and when a 1,000 pound animal that's not afraid of you decides to throw its weight around, it's very dangerous. Beef cattle who live their lives in pasture typically like to keep their distance: "Don't start none, won't be none."

    What is incredible about Holsteins is the amount of milk a cow produces in one day. Stop me if I am wrong Cloudbuster but I believe in some dairy barns they are milked three times a day. Again by some method of genetic engineering the Holstein cow is much larger than the same breed I saw years ago. Please expand on that if you are inclined to do so. As for Bevo that bull lives a pampered life except the time one of the earlier Bevos was kidnapped by Aggies , but later re-captured before the Aggies had a chance to turn him into barbeque.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    I'm not really an expert on dairy cattle -- I just have beef cattle -- but I have raised dairy goats. The more you milk a dairy animal, the more it produces, so I'm not surprised some have gone to three times a day. I know some farms and universities are experimenting with self-milking stations -- fully automated, robotic and the cow goes in whenever she wants. Their initial findings were that the cows take to it really well, and a cow will go in several times a day, and it improves production, as well as reducing required manpower.

    Last I remember hearing -- 20-some years ago -- a holstein could produce about 64 pounds (about 8 gallons) a day, and I'd be surprised if that hasn't gone up since then.

    Holsteins have always been a pretty tall breed, and again, I wouldn't be surprised if they are bigger now. They don't breed for long bones with most beef cattle, but they do with dairy, it seems.

    I have one mystery-breed ox that looks to be at least partly a dairy breed and he's significantly taller than my bull, but probably doesn't weigh more.
  46. @Autochthon
    Your point is just an a fortiori argument for his; maybe these animals shouldn't be paraded around a sportsball arena to entertain a bunch of yahoos.

    When was the last time a lion or a tiger got out of hand during a ballgame in Detroit? Oh, right; the NFL has the sense to dress people in costumes instead of exploiting animals and endangering humans. The costumed actors are probably more entertaining, too: the San Diego Chicken is more fun any day of the week than a discomited bull on a leash.

    P.S.: Has doughnut finally lost it altogether? Doughy, sober up and hit the gym in the new year; we're rooting for you!

    I’m not sure if they still do but at one point univesity of memphis had a tiger in a cage. A london zoo style iron bar cage. I find this to be hilarious. The ultimate example of Southern bourgeoisie culture, and mans domain over god.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    It's not just Memphis:

    http://www.wafb.com/resizer/W9N_YDZB9lFDGbd3nUF75PeN1aU=/1400x0/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-raycom.s3.amazonaws.com/public/DH74OHBVD5GMTBNXSO3ESGWZMQ.jpg

  47. Bevo nearly just impaled a couple of people. That is incredibly dangerous. Who’s idea was it to let that thing out of its restraints? The Photo op of the two adorable animal mascots was just too cute to pass up on. Awwwweeee. I say that OSHA investigate and shut down these clearly unregulated NCAA sporting events. Was anyone even wearing their proper personal protective equipment? At a minimum these should be high-viz vests, safety glasses, steel to boots, rawhide gloves for wrangling the animals, and kevlar vests to prevent Bevos long horns from impaling you through the torso. I’m angry and jealous of the university elites, their precious foose-ball monopolies should be shut down.

  48. @Anonymous
    Bevo was a near beer like beverage made by Anheuser Busch during Prohibition, and abandoned shortly thereafter. The Bevo Mill was a St. Louis era fixture for decades, though. A restaurant shaped like a windmill, I think it has closed down now.


    Bevo Howard was one of the great airshow aerobatic display pilots, killed in the late 60s as I recall.

    Bevo Francis once held the record for most points scored in a college basketball game:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bevo_Francis

  49. @Hail

    Stereotypes
     
    How is this for a stereotype:

    The iSteve blog whizzes along at seven posts already in 2019 (as of 7:30 PM Pacific Jan. 1, 2019). That's on pace for 8.5 per day.

    If this pace holds, the 200 mark could be approached already by Saint Martin the Noble Day (observed Jan. 21). iSteve has had only one 200-post month AFAICT: August 2017 (211 posts). January 2018 came close, clocking in at 194 posts.

    In the words of iSteve commenter Ali Choudhury,

    Ali Choudhury says:
    July 13, 2018 at 3:38 am GMT

    That is 9 posts in one day. Please slow down.

    Disagree: TheBoom
     

    I am certain that Ali is a troll based on “Mr Know-All.”

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    The Somerset Maugham Mr Know-All?

    http://drnissani.net/mnissani/world/Mr%20Know-All.htm


    "He was everywhere and always. He was certainly the best hated man in the ship. We called him Mr. Know-All, even to his face. He took it as a compliment. But it was at mealtimes that he was most intolerable. For the better part of an hour then he had us at his mercy. He was hearty, jovial, loquacious and argumentative. He knew everything better than anybody else, and it was an affront to his overweening vanity that you should disagree with him. He would not drop a subject, however unimportant, till he had brought you round to his way of thinking. The possibility that he could be mistaken never occurred to him. He was the chap who knew. We sat at the doctor's table. Mr. Kelada would certainly have had it all his own way, for the doctor was lazy and I was frigidly indifferent, except for a man called Ramsay who sat there also. He was as dogmatic as Mr. Kelada and resented bitterly the Levantine's cocksureness. The discussions they had were acrimonious and interminable."
     
  50. @Jack Hanson
    When I kept a hobby farm with Dexter cattle, I had one cow I'd never turn my back on. She was my best milker so it precipitated a lot of interaction to wrangle her into a stanchion, and even then I've been kicked and gored.

    Dealing with cattle outside of factory farming set ups is a risky proposition, and even then, with millions of dollars of safety equipment, shit happens.

    I have a mastiff, and she had a natural antipathy to that cow, who stood her ground while the other Dexters (including the bull) would give way. I think it came down to who wanted to be the baddest bitch on the ranch.

    I am not a student of animal behavior but cows I found have traits just like humans. As with humans there is always an individual who stands out from the rest. When I was growing up on a small farm in Ohio there was one cow who was the bane of my existence or so it seemed to me. This cow had the propensity to break through fences and end up eating the forbidden fruit of the neighbor’s field which was corn. This happened on a too frequent basis so in desperation I constructed a device that put an end to this cow’s mischief. It was a cruel looking affair consisting of a long board that was fastened to a chain around her neck and was dragged between her legs. Any attempt to crash through a fence was met with failure because the front end of the board would catch in the fence and prevent her from going through. Today I am sure this device would be met with great disapproval by the SPCA.
    Prior to this invention our cows managed to escape their environs and end up in the center of the small village that neighbored our farm. That evening there was a knock on our door by a man who advised us of our stampeding herd and I ran downtown to round them up. I managed to get them home and placed them inside the barn until I could find their escape route. I don’t exactly suffer pangs of nostalgia about that affair but the memory remains so many years later.

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    When I started buying cattle, a neighbor told me when you buy a cow: "Easy calver, good milker, gentle. Pick two." Ive found it to be 100% on the nose.
  51. @Cloudbuster
    An animal that size does whatever it wants. It's not physically possible for the handlers to restrain it. You just desensitize, condition and communicate, but if something goes pear-shaped, a steer that size can't be "controlled" by a couple guys and a rope lead.

    Cloud, we used to visit and work on a farm when I was a kid. I remember that the stud bull, since replaced by artificial insemination, were large scary beasts. However, there was a brass ring through its nose that made it much easier to control than a lead. The farmer hooked a stout stick through the ring and bent the bull to his command. Still a very scary animal.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    Their noses are very sensitive. It's a pretty common practice, but my bull doesn't have a nose ring and I haven't worked with one that does, so I'm not really knowledgeable. I've used a twitch on a horse a couple times and it's a similar thing, though the twitch is supposed to release endorphins and actually pacify the horse, and I don't know if the nose ring does the same thing. I don't even like using the twitch on a horse, though, if I can avoid it, and I usually can. It's obvious there's some pain involved and it seems like you might be creating bad associations that will come back to bite you later, depending on the horse. I don't want a cow or a horse that's looking to get even with me.

    I mostly just cater to my bull's natural instincts -- a bucket of grain, or going along with the rest of the herd. I'm fortunate enough that I rarely have to move him someplace he isn't already willing to go. The next time I have to load him into a trailer will probably be when I sell or slaughter him, and all I'll probably do is put him in a corral with hay or grain in the trailer and give him plenty of time to decide he wants to go in by himself.
  52. @Jack Hanson
    When I kept a hobby farm with Dexter cattle, I had one cow I'd never turn my back on. She was my best milker so it precipitated a lot of interaction to wrangle her into a stanchion, and even then I've been kicked and gored.

    Dealing with cattle outside of factory farming set ups is a risky proposition, and even then, with millions of dollars of safety equipment, shit happens.

    I have a mastiff, and she had a natural antipathy to that cow, who stood her ground while the other Dexters (including the bull) would give way. I think it came down to who wanted to be the baddest bitch on the ranch.

    Jack, Gored? As in partially eviscerated? Or just smacked hard by the horns. When I worked on a farm all the cows had been dehorned.

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    She got me through the bicep. When I went to get it stitched up and packed the doctor described it as a "goring" so I've gone with that.

    I took the tips off her horns afterwards but since we were dealing with wild /loose dogs and coyotes in the area, I left her those horns.

    About once or twice a month I'd have to remove a dog/coyote carcass from my pasture, but I never saw her marked up.

  53. @Autochthon
    Your point is just an a fortiori argument for his; maybe these animals shouldn't be paraded around a sportsball arena to entertain a bunch of yahoos.

    When was the last time a lion or a tiger got out of hand during a ballgame in Detroit? Oh, right; the NFL has the sense to dress people in costumes instead of exploiting animals and endangering humans. The costumed actors are probably more entertaining, too: the San Diego Chicken is more fun any day of the week than a discomited bull on a leash.

    P.S.: Has doughnut finally lost it altogether? Doughy, sober up and hit the gym in the new year; we're rooting for you!

    “P.S.: Has doughnut finally lost it altogether? Doughy, sober up and hit the gym in the new year; we’re rooting for you!”

    There are moments when I seem able to follow his train of thought. These always make me uneasy.

    Whatever. He posts clips of good music and good movies. His reasons are his own.

  54. @MikeatMikedotMike
    That when part of a group that decide it's time to stampede, are pretty much unstoppable, leaving a trail of carnage in their wake.

    That when part of a group that decide it’s time to stampede, are pretty much unstoppable, leaving a trail of carnage in their wake.

    That’s what the Wall is meant to prevent. And most of it will be in Texas.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    Ya think I'll be able to send $100 dollars somewhere to get my name etched into one of the bricks?

    English on our side, mestizo on the other.
  55. @Autochthon
    Your point is just an a fortiori argument for his; maybe these animals shouldn't be paraded around a sportsball arena to entertain a bunch of yahoos.

    When was the last time a lion or a tiger got out of hand during a ballgame in Detroit? Oh, right; the NFL has the sense to dress people in costumes instead of exploiting animals and endangering humans. The costumed actors are probably more entertaining, too: the San Diego Chicken is more fun any day of the week than a discomited bull on a leash.

    P.S.: Has doughnut finally lost it altogether? Doughy, sober up and hit the gym in the new year; we're rooting for you!

    P.S.: Has doughnut finally lost it altogether? Doughy, sober up and hit the gym in the new year; we’re rooting for you!

    He leaves out the ugh, even though it would seem most appropriate.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Oh, I know; I refuse, on general principle, to ever write things like donut, yogurt, thru, nite, catalog, analog, etc. – damn them all! – but bless the Doughnut.

    Say, maybe it's not so much the ugh that the Doughnut is missing; maybe he needs more of the Uh! in his life to cheer him up....

    https://youtu.be/UTcLPHUq-Vw
  56. Georgia’s demographic transition would be better represented by a pug.

  57. @Federalist
    It's shown who's boss first when it's castrated and again when its turned into steaks. Its a species whose whole existence is dominated by humans. Cattle are great because beef is delicious, but they are not noble animals suitable for a mascot. They are food.

    To stick with the same general theme, you could go with the cowboy as a mascot or with his horse. Horse and man work together. A cowboy or a general in olden days might name his favorite horse. The horse and man are almost friends, but man slaughters cattle.

    You should have just said “I am someone who has never dealt with cattle outside of a possibly carefully controlled encounter” and saved us the trouble of reading some high grade ’tism.

    Prove me wrong by walking up to a range steer and threatening to turn him into steaks, turbo. It’ll be an entertaining obituary.

    • Replies: @Federalist
    I don't know why you're offended that I said that a steer is not a good mascot. explained my reasons for my belief. Of course, you may disagree but you're not a cow so it's not a personal insult.

    No, I don't deal with cattle. I did not put down ranchers or people who do deal with cattle. If I did, then taking offense would be understandable. In fact, I said in one comment that a cowboy is a good mascot. The people that I know who deal with cattle are generally tough, hardworking, etc.

    I concede that I would not take on a steer in single combat and that if I did, I would be killed. That doesn't have anything to do with the point I made.
  58. @Simply Simon
    I am not a student of animal behavior but cows I found have traits just like humans. As with humans there is always an individual who stands out from the rest. When I was growing up on a small farm in Ohio there was one cow who was the bane of my existence or so it seemed to me. This cow had the propensity to break through fences and end up eating the forbidden fruit of the neighbor's field which was corn. This happened on a too frequent basis so in desperation I constructed a device that put an end to this cow's mischief. It was a cruel looking affair consisting of a long board that was fastened to a chain around her neck and was dragged between her legs. Any attempt to crash through a fence was met with failure because the front end of the board would catch in the fence and prevent her from going through. Today I am sure this device would be met with great disapproval by the SPCA.
    Prior to this invention our cows managed to escape their environs and end up in the center of the small village that neighbored our farm. That evening there was a knock on our door by a man who advised us of our stampeding herd and I ran downtown to round them up. I managed to get them home and placed them inside the barn until I could find their escape route. I don't exactly suffer pangs of nostalgia about that affair but the memory remains so many years later.

    When I started buying cattle, a neighbor told me when you buy a cow: “Easy calver, good milker, gentle. Pick two.” Ive found it to be 100% on the nose.

  59. @Buffalo Joe
    Jack, Gored? As in partially eviscerated? Or just smacked hard by the horns. When I worked on a farm all the cows had been dehorned.

    She got me through the bicep. When I went to get it stitched up and packed the doctor described it as a “goring” so I’ve gone with that.

    I took the tips off her horns afterwards but since we were dealing with wild /loose dogs and coyotes in the area, I left her those horns.

    About once or twice a month I’d have to remove a dog/coyote carcass from my pasture, but I never saw her marked up.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    jack, thank you. I will accept gored .
  60. @Reg Cæsar

    P.S.: Has doughnut finally lost it altogether? Doughy, sober up and hit the gym in the new year; we’re rooting for you!
     
    He leaves out the ugh, even though it would seem most appropriate.

    Oh, I know; I refuse, on general principle, to ever write things like donut, yogurt, thru, nite, catalog, analog, etc. – damn them all! – but bless the Doughnut.

    Say, maybe it’s not so much the ugh that the Doughnut is missing; maybe he needs more of the Uh! in his life to cheer him up….

  61. @Reg Cæsar

    That when part of a group that decide it’s time to stampede, are pretty much unstoppable, leaving a trail of carnage in their wake.
     
    That's what the Wall is meant to prevent. And most of it will be in Texas.

    Ya think I’ll be able to send $100 dollars somewhere to get my name etched into one of the bricks?

    English on our side, mestizo on the other.

  62. @Federalist
    Instead of some kind of predator, Texas has a domesticated, plant-eating, food source as its mascot.

    At least it seems like a viable animal. The bulldog wouldn’t last 15 minutes outdoors if it actually had to be a predator. Whoever was responsible for the selective breeding that produced the pathetic and useless bulldog did no service to man or the canine breed.

  63. Bovines don’t like dogs. The reaction was instinctive.

  64. “Breed and gender are just social constructs.”

    In some sense, is not everything a social construct? The universe is brute matter, and everything else is a construct of the human mind, in particular the process of abstraction and categorization.

    Consider that race is linked to biology; ethnicity is linked to culture. Race is a biological and social construct. Ethnicity is a social construct. Ethnicity is the term for the culture of people in a given geographic region, including their language, heritage, religion and customs. To be a member of an ethnic group is to conform to some or all of those practices. In a nutshell, race refers to a group of people who possess similar and distinct physical characteristics, while ethnicity refers to a category of people who regard themselves to be different from other groups based on common ancestral, cultural, national, and social experience. Men and women had sought, and continue to seek, to explain sensory experience of our world. Thus, we affix labels to make sense of our environment. Race, biology, ethnicity–all are concepts created by human beings as an organizational tool to offer a consistency about the natural world in which they observe.

  65. @Jack Hanson
    She got me through the bicep. When I went to get it stitched up and packed the doctor described it as a "goring" so I've gone with that.

    I took the tips off her horns afterwards but since we were dealing with wild /loose dogs and coyotes in the area, I left her those horns.

    About once or twice a month I'd have to remove a dog/coyote carcass from my pasture, but I never saw her marked up.

    jack, thank you. I will accept gored .

  66. @Redneck farmer
    Jersey bulls are worse.

    I’ll take your word for it. I don’t raise dairy cattle.

  67. @Buffalo Joe
    Cloud, we used to visit and work on a farm when I was a kid. I remember that the stud bull, since replaced by artificial insemination, were large scary beasts. However, there was a brass ring through its nose that made it much easier to control than a lead. The farmer hooked a stout stick through the ring and bent the bull to his command. Still a very scary animal.

    Their noses are very sensitive. It’s a pretty common practice, but my bull doesn’t have a nose ring and I haven’t worked with one that does, so I’m not really knowledgeable. I’ve used a twitch on a horse a couple times and it’s a similar thing, though the twitch is supposed to release endorphins and actually pacify the horse, and I don’t know if the nose ring does the same thing. I don’t even like using the twitch on a horse, though, if I can avoid it, and I usually can. It’s obvious there’s some pain involved and it seems like you might be creating bad associations that will come back to bite you later, depending on the horse. I don’t want a cow or a horse that’s looking to get even with me.

    I mostly just cater to my bull’s natural instincts — a bucket of grain, or going along with the rest of the herd. I’m fortunate enough that I rarely have to move him someplace he isn’t already willing to go. The next time I have to load him into a trailer will probably be when I sell or slaughter him, and all I’ll probably do is put him in a corral with hay or grain in the trailer and give him plenty of time to decide he wants to go in by himself.

  68. @Simply Simon
    What is incredible about Holsteins is the amount of milk a cow produces in one day. Stop me if I am wrong Cloudbuster but I believe in some dairy barns they are milked three times a day. Again by some method of genetic engineering the Holstein cow is much larger than the same breed I saw years ago. Please expand on that if you are inclined to do so. As for Bevo that bull lives a pampered life except the time one of the earlier Bevos was kidnapped by Aggies , but later re-captured before the Aggies had a chance to turn him into barbeque.

    I’m not really an expert on dairy cattle — I just have beef cattle — but I have raised dairy goats. The more you milk a dairy animal, the more it produces, so I’m not surprised some have gone to three times a day. I know some farms and universities are experimenting with self-milking stations — fully automated, robotic and the cow goes in whenever she wants. Their initial findings were that the cows take to it really well, and a cow will go in several times a day, and it improves production, as well as reducing required manpower.

    Last I remember hearing — 20-some years ago — a holstein could produce about 64 pounds (about 8 gallons) a day, and I’d be surprised if that hasn’t gone up since then.

    Holsteins have always been a pretty tall breed, and again, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are bigger now. They don’t breed for long bones with most beef cattle, but they do with dairy, it seems.

    I have one mystery-breed ox that looks to be at least partly a dairy breed and he’s significantly taller than my bull, but probably doesn’t weigh more.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Last I remember hearing — 20-some years ago — a holstein could produce about 64 pounds (about 8 gallons) a day, and I’d be surprised if that hasn’t gone up since then.
     
    What's the input? Five acres pasture per cow?
  69. @J.Ross
    I am certain that Ali is a troll based on "Mr Know-All."

    The Somerset Maugham Mr Know-All?

    http://drnissani.net/mnissani/world/Mr%20Know-All.htm

    “He was everywhere and always. He was certainly the best hated man in the ship. We called him Mr. Know-All, even to his face. He took it as a compliment. But it was at mealtimes that he was most intolerable. For the better part of an hour then he had us at his mercy. He was hearty, jovial, loquacious and argumentative. He knew everything better than anybody else, and it was an affront to his overweening vanity that you should disagree with him. He would not drop a subject, however unimportant, till he had brought you round to his way of thinking. The possibility that he could be mistaken never occurred to him. He was the chap who knew. We sat at the doctor’s table. Mr. Kelada would certainly have had it all his own way, for the doctor was lazy and I was frigidly indifferent, except for a man called Ramsay who sat there also. He was as dogmatic as Mr. Kelada and resented bitterly the Levantine’s cocksureness. The discussions they had were acrimonious and interminable.”

    • Replies: @Hail

    The Somerset Maugham Mr Know-All
     

    He would not drop a subject, however unimportant, till he had brought you round to his way of thinking. The possibility that he could be mistaken never occurred to him. He was the chap who knew.
     
    First published, 1924.

    An unbearable personality type in person, to our misfortune making frequent digital appearances in our era.
  70. @Anthony Wayne
    I know a fellow who owns a bulldog from the same line as the Ugas. She’s had a rough go of it — nearly blind and quite overweight — but she’s darling and genuinely intelligent.

    Shouldn’t Uga be genetically predisposed to chomp down on Bevo’s schnoz in this scenario, though?

    Are you talking about Bevo O’Rourke? I always knew he was full of bull.

  71. @Hypnotoad666

    Instead of some kind of predator, Texas has a domesticated, plant-eating, food source as its mascot.
     
    Having a castrated mascot doesn't really send the optimal message, either.

    Having a castrated mascot doesn’t really send the optimal message, either.

    I guess that all depends on what you believe the optimal message really is. Looking at where the nation, and in particular the education system is headed, a castrated mascot is the ideal mascot.

  72. @Kyle
    I'm not sure if they still do but at one point univesity of memphis had a tiger in a cage. A london zoo style iron bar cage. I find this to be hilarious. The ultimate example of Southern bourgeoisie culture, and mans domain over god.

    It’s not just Memphis:

    • Replies: @Federalist
    LSU's Mike the Tiger used to go to the stadium in this thing before home football games. (They took it back to the regular enclosure before the game started.) They don't do this anymore because of animal rights crap.

    The tiger lives in a $3+ million 15,000 square foot "habitat" (a/k/a cage) with a waterfall, pond to swim in, heated & cooled rocks for the tiger to lay on, etc. Some say a tiger should not be kept in captivity at all, but it's not the case of a tiger kept in an iron bar cage.
  73. @Cloudbuster
    I'm not really an expert on dairy cattle -- I just have beef cattle -- but I have raised dairy goats. The more you milk a dairy animal, the more it produces, so I'm not surprised some have gone to three times a day. I know some farms and universities are experimenting with self-milking stations -- fully automated, robotic and the cow goes in whenever she wants. Their initial findings were that the cows take to it really well, and a cow will go in several times a day, and it improves production, as well as reducing required manpower.

    Last I remember hearing -- 20-some years ago -- a holstein could produce about 64 pounds (about 8 gallons) a day, and I'd be surprised if that hasn't gone up since then.

    Holsteins have always been a pretty tall breed, and again, I wouldn't be surprised if they are bigger now. They don't breed for long bones with most beef cattle, but they do with dairy, it seems.

    I have one mystery-breed ox that looks to be at least partly a dairy breed and he's significantly taller than my bull, but probably doesn't weigh more.

    Last I remember hearing — 20-some years ago — a holstein could produce about 64 pounds (about 8 gallons) a day, and I’d be surprised if that hasn’t gone up since then.

    What’s the input? Five acres pasture per cow?

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    No idea, but the answer for other livestock about pasture requirements is that it varies widely depending on the quality of the pasture. Dairy cattle need to be near the milking parlor, so they aren't widely ranged like beef cattle, so they get most of their calories from silage and grain. I'm going to wild-ass guess that it's in the 20-30 pounds/day range for a mature fresh cow -- they generally have unrestricted access to hay or silage and periodic additional supplementation. Also, they drink an enormous amount of water, as most of the volume of milk is water.
    , @Olorin
    Regarding stocking rates on pasture:

    https://attra.ncat.org/calendar/question.php/how_do_i_determine_the_stocking_rate_for

    New pastured dairy operations frequently have to restore pasture plant communities to get good forage mix. Particularly where previous land use was monocrop or even rotational plant systems.

    Livestock type, breed, climate, soil type/nutriens--many such variables.

  74. @Jack Hanson
    You should have just said "I am someone who has never dealt with cattle outside of a possibly carefully controlled encounter" and saved us the trouble of reading some high grade 'tism.

    Prove me wrong by walking up to a range steer and threatening to turn him into steaks, turbo. It'll be an entertaining obituary.

    I don’t know why you’re offended that I said that a steer is not a good mascot. explained my reasons for my belief. Of course, you may disagree but you’re not a cow so it’s not a personal insult.

    No, I don’t deal with cattle. I did not put down ranchers or people who do deal with cattle. If I did, then taking offense would be understandable. In fact, I said in one comment that a cowboy is a good mascot. The people that I know who deal with cattle are generally tough, hardworking, etc.

    I concede that I would not take on a steer in single combat and that if I did, I would be killed. That doesn’t have anything to do with the point I made.

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    I'm not offended about you saying a steer is a "bad mascot", but your blase attitude thay a steer is simply there for you to walk up and carve up into steaks.

    A position which you have sensibly backed away from.

    The Hispana Legion saw fit to use a bull for their standard for the reasons I outlined.

  75. @ben tillman
    It's not just Memphis:

    http://www.wafb.com/resizer/W9N_YDZB9lFDGbd3nUF75PeN1aU=/1400x0/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-raycom.s3.amazonaws.com/public/DH74OHBVD5GMTBNXSO3ESGWZMQ.jpg

    LSU’s Mike the Tiger used to go to the stadium in this thing before home football games. (They took it back to the regular enclosure before the game started.) They don’t do this anymore because of animal rights crap.

    The tiger lives in a $3+ million 15,000 square foot “habitat” (a/k/a cage) with a waterfall, pond to swim in, heated & cooled rocks for the tiger to lay on, etc. Some say a tiger should not be kept in captivity at all, but it’s not the case of a tiger kept in an iron bar cage.

  76. @YetAnotherAnon
    The Somerset Maugham Mr Know-All?

    http://drnissani.net/mnissani/world/Mr%20Know-All.htm


    "He was everywhere and always. He was certainly the best hated man in the ship. We called him Mr. Know-All, even to his face. He took it as a compliment. But it was at mealtimes that he was most intolerable. For the better part of an hour then he had us at his mercy. He was hearty, jovial, loquacious and argumentative. He knew everything better than anybody else, and it was an affront to his overweening vanity that you should disagree with him. He would not drop a subject, however unimportant, till he had brought you round to his way of thinking. The possibility that he could be mistaken never occurred to him. He was the chap who knew. We sat at the doctor's table. Mr. Kelada would certainly have had it all his own way, for the doctor was lazy and I was frigidly indifferent, except for a man called Ramsay who sat there also. He was as dogmatic as Mr. Kelada and resented bitterly the Levantine's cocksureness. The discussions they had were acrimonious and interminable."
     

    The Somerset Maugham Mr Know-All

    He would not drop a subject, however unimportant, till he had brought you round to his way of thinking. The possibility that he could be mistaken never occurred to him. He was the chap who knew.

    First published, 1924.

    An unbearable personality type in person, to our misfortune making frequent digital appearances in our era.

  77. @ben tillman

    Last I remember hearing — 20-some years ago — a holstein could produce about 64 pounds (about 8 gallons) a day, and I’d be surprised if that hasn’t gone up since then.
     
    What's the input? Five acres pasture per cow?

    No idea, but the answer for other livestock about pasture requirements is that it varies widely depending on the quality of the pasture. Dairy cattle need to be near the milking parlor, so they aren’t widely ranged like beef cattle, so they get most of their calories from silage and grain. I’m going to wild-ass guess that it’s in the 20-30 pounds/day range for a mature fresh cow — they generally have unrestricted access to hay or silage and periodic additional supplementation. Also, they drink an enormous amount of water, as most of the volume of milk is water.

  78. @Federalist
    I don't know why you're offended that I said that a steer is not a good mascot. explained my reasons for my belief. Of course, you may disagree but you're not a cow so it's not a personal insult.

    No, I don't deal with cattle. I did not put down ranchers or people who do deal with cattle. If I did, then taking offense would be understandable. In fact, I said in one comment that a cowboy is a good mascot. The people that I know who deal with cattle are generally tough, hardworking, etc.

    I concede that I would not take on a steer in single combat and that if I did, I would be killed. That doesn't have anything to do with the point I made.

    I’m not offended about you saying a steer is a “bad mascot”, but your blase attitude thay a steer is simply there for you to walk up and carve up into steaks.

    A position which you have sensibly backed away from.

    The Hispana Legion saw fit to use a bull for their standard for the reasons I outlined.

  79. @Cloudbuster
    I own several Texas Longhorns. They're actually regarded as a pretty sweet-tempered breed. My Angus are generally more aggressive than my Longhorns.

    Holstein bulls, on the other hand, are widely acknowledged as some of the most dangerous of all cattle The heifers are OK, but there are probably more injuries per capita from Holstein cows than from any beef breed like Longhorns just because through heavy interaction in barns milking parlors there is more opportunity, plus Holstein cows don't have any fear of humans, and when a 1,000 pound animal that's not afraid of you decides to throw its weight around, it's very dangerous. Beef cattle who live their lives in pasture typically like to keep their distance: "Don't start none, won't be none."

    Agree absolutely on your points about Longhorns. Dunno how close, or through what pathways, they are to aurochs…but aurochs were domesticable, partly a function of essential character.

    Agree also on Holstein “danger.” Also on how pasturing has beneficial behavioral effects, though one must select herd members for their fit with those systems. But we all thrive when our daily environments respect our breeding.

    Regarding dairy cows, many of these large animals are exposed to treatment completely at odds with how they’re hardwired. You’ve probably seen vids of the large dairy cows in NZ who are milked in robotic parlors, on schedules of their own determination. They appear to be much calmer and happier than animals driven, grabbed, shoved, etc.

    I don’t even want to think about some of what I’ve seen in servicing/insemination. What always amazed me was that these animals are as patient as they are.

    I’ve long assumed that one reason for the reputation of Holstein “danger” is that Holsteins are often, and in some cases increasingly, bred for hormonal excess (i.e., milk and sperm production, also size and efficiency of forage conversion).

    If you go to the National Dairy Shrine and look at the wall of the champion Holsteins over the past 80 years, you can observe this. It would be silly not to expect this to come out in behavioral characteristics as well. Since likely the majority of farm systems are engineered for the convenience of the farmer/labor crew, and investors, not for the comfort or convenience of the animals, there is plenty of cause for them to feel peeved, threatened, angry, bored/twitchy, etc. And although I’ve had many farmers assure me that their cattle don’t have feelings, my experience is that they do have emotional lives–quite rich ones, in some cases more than their owners’.

    IIRC the current record Holstein lactation per year is over 72,000 pounds; the average is something like 23,000 pounds. That’s a big spread.

    But whatever the case, cattle do not belong in a colosseum with 100,000 screaming people, bright lights, things flashing/exploding, etc.

    Not to mention that a bull taking a swipe at a bull-dog should surprise no one. Then again humans associated with football tend to be pretty stupid IME, and football announcers are next door to morons.

  80. @ben tillman

    Last I remember hearing — 20-some years ago — a holstein could produce about 64 pounds (about 8 gallons) a day, and I’d be surprised if that hasn’t gone up since then.
     
    What's the input? Five acres pasture per cow?

    Regarding stocking rates on pasture:

    https://attra.ncat.org/calendar/question.php/how_do_i_determine_the_stocking_rate_for

    New pastured dairy operations frequently have to restore pasture plant communities to get good forage mix. Particularly where previous land use was monocrop or even rotational plant systems.

    Livestock type, breed, climate, soil type/nutriens–many such variables.

  81. I mean…it was a good precursor to what happened in the game…

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