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St. Louis Mayor on Hammer Hate Crime: Nobody Mention the R, W, or F Words!
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From the St. Louis Post-Dispatch:

Mayor, police, say race played no role in hammer slaying of Bosnian immigrant

3 hours ago • By Christine Byers and Nicholas J.C. Pistor

Sejdalija Nuhanovic holds up a Bosnian flag along Gravois Road after a march on Monday, Dec. 1, 2014. Police blocked traffic as hundreds of people marched from Holly Hills Avenue down Gravois Road to Itaska Street where Begic was killed. Photo By David Carson,

Fatal hammer attack on Bosnian immigrant not racially motivated, St. Louis police say

But authorities aren’t saying what they believe motivated the deadly attack. Read more

ST. LOUIS • One teen was charged with murder, two more were held and a fourth was sought Monday as officials spent another day trying to quell speculation that the bludgeoning death of a Bosnian immigrant was racially motivated.

“There is no evidence that this was a crime occasioned by the race or ethnicity of the victim,” Mayor Francis Slay declared in a formal statement. He added, “Speculation that this attack had anything to do with the Ferguson protests is absolutely unfounded.”

I see nuff-fink!

Perhaps because St. Louis is kind of German, Mayor Slay’s press conference reminds of Sgt. Schultz on Hogan’s Heroes proclaiming that he sees “Nuff-fink! Nuff-FINK!”

Police have been saying the same thing about the killing of Zemir Begic, 32, who was beaten to death with at least two hammers near Gravois Avenue and Itaska Street about 1:15 a.m. Sunday.

Robert Joseph Mitchell, 17, who lives on Winnebago Street, turned himself in at city police headquarters late Sunday and was charged with first-degree murder and armed criminal action. It was unclear whether two other suspects in custody, juveniles 15 and 16, will be charged as adults. Police said they know the identity of a fourth participant, who is sought.

Mitchell and one of the two juveniles in custody are black, police said; the other is Hispanic.

According to court documents, members of the group yelled at Begic, his fiancée and two others as they walked to Begic’s car. As the vehicle drove away, one teen jumped on the back and began beating on it. Begic stopped and got out, and one of the men taunted him to fight before all four attacked — and continued to beat him after he fell to the ground.

“We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.

Detectives do not believe the attackers took anything but Begic’s life. He died at St. Louis University Hospital, suffering injuries to his head, abdomen, face and mouth. …

About 300 people gathered Monday afternoon for a two-hour vigil near the scene in the Bevo Mill neighborhood — about three times as many as had gathered Sunday night. Many were worried that racial tension had fueled the killing.

Some demanded more police attention, which Chief Sam Dotson promised Sunday. …

Lewis Reed, president of the Board of Aldermen, wrote a letter Monday to the Board of Estimate and Apportionment, asking the budget director to research ways to pay for more police. It echoes a call already made by Dotson, citing continuing protests since the shooting of Michael Brown by a police officer in Ferguson Aug. 9.

Reed wrote: “From what we have seen during the past week, there is no indication that the protests and demonstrations are going to be slowing down any time in the near future. We should not ask the members of our police department to continue to work 12-hour shifts indefinitely. This could lead to morale problems as well as diminishing returns with respect to effective law enforcement.”

Some who gathered at the scene Monday talked of surviving war in their home country and coming to America for a better life, only to be met with a crime like this. …

The crowd chanted, “Bosnian lives matter!” taking a cue from Ferguson protesters who often rally with the call, “Black lives matter!”

Commenter Suburban Elk speculates:

The Bosnian community in St Louis is in a difficult situation. Begic was attacked as a white man, and killed as a Bosnian. …

Begic probably did not back down, like a typical deracinated white American would have. So Begic and his companion Nuranjkovic were picked out for being white; and then their actions were more Balkan and Slav, and in that case it lead to his death. (I am not suggesting that the youths would have spared some pleading white Americans, but.)

************

So now what are the Bosnians to do? They would like to exact revenge, but the black and maybe hispanic youths who killed Begic were part of a mob, not members of a family or clan.

The Bosnians there fell victim to the the hatred for white Americans and they are in a catch-22. They can’t respond as Bosnians, because their enemies are not from a clan and were not after them as Bosnians. Their response would be to exact vengeance but against whom?

And they can’t respond as white Americans, because … well, white Americans don’t exist.

 
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  1. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    The Bosnian flag looks like the Quebec flag with the blue and white and fleur de lis.

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  2. “We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.

    Place and time again?!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Oswald Spengler
    A lot of people sure do seem to find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. Funny how that seems to happen more often to some than to others though.
    , @The Anti-Gnostic

    “We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.
     
    As opposed to that usual suspect, the evil Random.

    This is the sort of pretzel logic that gets trotted out whenever whites wander into the wilderness preserve. A young white Bosnian happened to stumble into an area where some yoofs were jus swingin dey hammers and his head got in the "wrong place, wrong time."

    Public officials are always frantically scrambling to put the kibosh on white pan-ethnic solidarity because they know whites are only about one or two turns of the worm away from realizing that Alabama vs. Auburn isn't nearly as important as r vs. K.
  3. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Their response would be to exact vengeance but against whom?

    Obviously against urban blacks and Hispanics in St. Louis. You don’t really seem to understand how this thinking works. Those Bosnians aren’t thinking about what “clan” those particular blacks and Hispanics are a part of.

    Read More
  4. “Detectives do not believe the attackers took anything but Begic’s life.”

    If that is not one of the most harrowing concatenations of words in the English language, I would like to hear one that is.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Auntie Analogue
    You nailed it, Tokyo Joe, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch's "Detectives do not believe the attackers took anything but Begic’s life" sentence is perhaps the most callous I've ever read.
  5. It’s so sad. O Bambi and his minion Kerry, know for sure that the Asian couple being “retained” in Qatar are poor innocents, because a court in Qatar has declared them innocent of killing a Black girl. He has more trust in an Islamic justice system that he has in the Grand Jury who decided that Officer Wilson had a reasonable fear of losing his life and so was justified in shooting Michael Brown. Go figure!

    Read More
  6. From now on white people should simply identify as Bosnian. “I’m Bosnian too!” (no one can deny that we’re Balkanized).

    #HammerHate

    Read More
  7. I wonder if Bosnian youths in St. Louis are attracted to Wigger culture at a high rate just like Armenian youths in California ? I would assume yes.

    Read More
  8. If only the convenience store/cigar joint Indian had just shot Brown dead .

    Read More
    • Replies: @josh
    If only Michael Brown had been there.He no doubt would've urged these black babies to slowly casually walk toward the police with their hands up. How sad that these mothers have their babies black bodies locked up.No doubt theyre making t shirts for sale as we speak.
    , @dcite
    Yes. The Indian guy was a responsible store owner. Brown was a worthless thug. And now the lunatics -- and this is not hyperbole, they truly are acting like lunatics -- are making a hero out him. The really funny thing is, all these goofy white people protesting this are people the Brown person would just as leave have battered out of his way like he did the Indian. They are people many blacks would loved to kill. They have no idea how many whites are murdered by blacks because the media hides it. Whites commit the least interracial crime, white on black almost nil, and yet get blamed by the lunatic media for all of it.
    You can bet, no matter what, when blacks kill or assault white, the "authorities" will declare race had nothing to do with it. Huh? How do you know? Did they tell you that and you believe them because they seem to have such integrity? \
    They could be beating a white, yelling "Kill Whitey" and the media and its minions would still be forced to declare race had nothing to do with it.
    They should be sued out business.
  9. @Francis
    “We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.

    Place and time again?!

    A lot of people sure do seem to find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. Funny how that seems to happen more often to some than to others though.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    A lot of people sure do seem to find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time.
     
    Yeah, the youths just happened to be walking around with hammers, too.

    The inevitable joke about hammer time seems in poor taste.
  10. I understand that the Bosnians can help themselves by pushing the anti-Bosnian hate crime angle, but it would be nice if, having established their ethnic minority credentials, they could come out as white people and fight on that front as well.

    Read More
  11. Redlining, loan discrimination and predatory mortgages have stripped generations of wealth from the African-American community. What is that if not robbery?

    The Republican Party practices policies of voter suppression. That’s the assault and battery of African-American political rights.

    Mass incarceration criminalizes the very existence of black men and boys. That’s the rape of equal justice.

    Unarmed people are killed by those who are purportedly there to protect and serve them and the “just us” system looks the other way. That’s the murder of basic human rights.

    African Americans have also been long oppressed by what might be called “America on black” crime.

    These young men were fighting back against a system that has continually defecated on them. Unfortunately things went to far. It sucks because these boys will have their futures stolen away. In truth white racism killed Mr. Begic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @eah
    Unfortunately things went to far.

    Not quite as unfortunately (but it is unfortunate nonetheless), things did not go quite far enough here -- you left off an 'o' on "to".

    , @gu
    These trolls are a riot. (pun not intended)

    "Redlining, loan discrimination and predatory mortgages have stripped generations of wealth from the African-American community. What is that if not robbery?"

    Sensible loan policy.

    "The Republican Party practices policies of voter suppression. That’s the assault and battery of African-American political rights."

    *snigger*

    Pretty sure illiterate felons not voting is a good thing.

    "Mass incarceration criminalizes the very existence of black men and boys. That’s the rape of equal justice."

    No it's the system cleansing itself.

    "Unarmed people are killed by those who are purportedly there to protect and serve them and the “just us” system looks the other way. That’s the murder of basic human rights."

    If a negro attacks a police officer, his life is forfeit. Don't like it? Too fucking bad.

    "African Americans have also been long oppressed by what might be called “America on black” crime."

    Nah, it's negroid on negroid crime.

    "These young men were fighting back against a system that has continually defecated on them. Unfortunately things went to far. It sucks because these boys will have their futures stolen away. In truth white racism killed Mr. Begic."

    I can think of at least one person more deserving to die of "white racism".
    , @Jack D
    That's a very convincing parody of a leftist idiot. You really had me going there for a while.
    , @HEL
    That's a pretty good litany of made up nonsense, and I appreciate the "whitey be the REAL criminal" conceit. Still, I really think this needs some rhyming, some alliteration, maybe some biblical references to really make it stack up against the best of black race-huckster bullshit.

    I give it a B-. You've got potential, but you'll need to study up if you want to match the Jesses, the Als and, yes, the Martins of the racial grievance world.
    , @Anonymous
    Republican Party does not practice voter suppression. Get off your Liberal BS. Republican party is the party that fights for civil rights. Learn your history and stop believing Soros media owned bullshit. So tired of the democratic sheep that obviously don't know their history.

    https://www.gop.com/history/
    , @enemylimes
    Poe's Law.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    We have a Ta-Nehisi Coates reader with us.

    I wonder if Coates or Vinny has ever considered how this critique of America is essentially racist against blacks. It implies that the mechanism by which 20th century America harmed blacks is by having them live near and send their kids to school with other blacks.
    , @jo s'more

    Redlining, loan discrimination and predatory mortgages have stripped generations of wealth from the African-American community. What is that if not robbery?
     
    Indeed.

    And Eric Holder conveniently never prosecuted the offenders, and now the statute of limitations has run out.

    So who is the real house Negro?
    , @Juan
    Are you sure you're on the right blog? It doesn't sound like you could have ever read anything posted here.
    , @dcite
    There is no place in the world that offers more opportunities to blacks. They keep coming here of their own accord. There is no white country they're not chomping at the bit to get into. So don't try that lame stuff. Blacks have had full legal rights for decades. They are in seats of government at the highest levels. They command school budgets-the one in D.C. spends more per child than any other in the country, and yet the achievement is still among the least. There are just no excuses left, are there? Nothing is ever enough and it's always someone else who has to do it for them.

    City after city is ruined. A cemetery in Baltimore had a beautiful wrought iron fence around it for a couple miles. For decades it was unmolested, in the white working class neighborhood of Irvington. Then I went back in 2003. The fence looked like gorillas had bent the bars. The cemetery looked descrated by "youths" who use it for god knows what. Now the entire entrance area on Frederick Ave. is shut off because of blacks. Even decent blacks were shocked they could no longer enter through that entrance but had to go round to the still white, and well kept, Wilkins Ave. entrance area.
    Whites don't flee because somebody's color bothers them--how ridiculous. The flee for their lives . It hasn't been our fault for a long time.

  12. “We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.

    The wrong place, wrong time excuse seems to come up a lot with a certain segment of our population.

    Detectives do not believe the attackers took anything but Begic’s life.. …

    Then we can rule out robbery I suppose. But what is the evidence to dismiss the hate crime aspect?

    The Bosnian flag looks like the Quebec flag with the blue and white and fleur de lis.

    I saw that too. Apparently the Kings of Bosnia used to use the Fleur-de-lis before they were conquered by the Ottomans. Later they were used again from 1992-1998 on the Bosnian coat of arms. But since 1998, the Fleur-de-lis has not been used. I wonder why these folks are still displaying them?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tom-in-VA
    Because the current flag of Bosnia and Herzegovina sucks, and was designed by Eurocrats because the Bosniaks, Croats, and Serbs could not agree on common symbols.
    , @HA
    "But since 1998, the Fleur-de-lis has not been used. I wonder why these folks are still displaying them?"


    Given the sheer ugliness of the newer flag (which, as your link notes, was designed by the UN High Representative after the Bosnian Parliament could not or would not find a design acceptable to all 3 ethnic factions), I do not find it surprising that many decided to simply hold on to the version they had.
  13. @Tokyo Joe
    "Detectives do not believe the attackers took anything but Begic’s life."

    If that is not one of the most harrowing concatenations of words in the English language, I would like to hear one that is.

    You nailed it, Tokyo Joe, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch’s “Detectives do not believe the attackers took anything but Begic’s life” sentence is perhaps the most callous I’ve ever read.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    To Tokyo Joe & Auntie Analogue:

    the St. Louis Post-Dispatch’s “Detectives do not believe the attackers took anything but Begic’s life” sentence is perhaps the most callous I’ve ever read.

     

    You said it. I'm not often stopped cold when reading a news article, but this one did it.

    How is this sentence even intended to be read? Are the article's writers trying to partially exonerate the killers by implying that the wayward lads had no evil motives in mind, and a confrontation and murder just (passively-voiced) 'occurred'? Or is the sentence meant to be brutal and ironic, and hence somewhat inflammatory?
  14. “If only the convenience store/cigar joint Indian had just shot Brown dead”

    Indians in the U.S are like White liberals in the sense that not many of them own a gun.

    Read More
  15. @Vinny
    Redlining, loan discrimination and predatory mortgages have stripped generations of wealth from the African-American community. What is that if not robbery?

    The Republican Party practices policies of voter suppression. That’s the assault and battery of African-American political rights.

    Mass incarceration criminalizes the very existence of black men and boys. That’s the rape of equal justice.

    Unarmed people are killed by those who are purportedly there to protect and serve them and the “just us” system looks the other way. That’s the murder of basic human rights.

    African Americans have also been long oppressed by what might be called “America on black” crime.

    These young men were fighting back against a system that has continually defecated on them. Unfortunately things went to far. It sucks because these boys will have their futures stolen away. In truth white racism killed Mr. Begic.

    Unfortunately things went to far.

    Not quite as unfortunately (but it is unfortunate nonetheless), things did not go quite far enough here — you left off an ‘o’ on “to”.

    Read More
  16. So, is Missouri casting about for a high-ranking Bosnian-American police officer to send down to St. Louis to take over law enforcement command in case the Bosnian community riots over this like blacks did in the wake of Wilson defending himself against a berserk Brown?

    Read More
  17. > Nobody Mention the R, W, or F Words!

    Um, ok, … R=race, W=white, F=f**k?

    or R=revenge, W=war, F=feminist??

    or RWF = Rage Whites Fear. Raging White Female. Restless Writer Fatigue. Right Word Fun.

    I give up. Could someone start an “Explain iSteve”* blog that would explain each post in a way slow or foreign people could understand?

    You could start by explaining what “Whom Whom” means, I never get that one, but I don’t know Latin, maybe that’s why. I know it’s an incredibly concise way of expressing a deep law of society, but I can never quite remember what it is because I immediately get tripped up on what “whom” means.

    It reminds me of German lessons and how I never got what dative was. And it doesn’t help at all that Lenin first said it: communist rhetoric is hard, and Russian is worse than German.
    кто? кого? кому? кого? кем? ком?

    http://demotivation.ru/wvqq5kqv1po8pic.html

    *like Explain XKCD, a crowd-sourced site that explains each XKCD cartoon.

    http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1451

    Oh wait, wait, I got it! World War F, World War R, World War W!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    W is white
    R and F come from the mayor's statement:

    “There is no evidence that this was a crime occasioned by the race or ethnicity of the victim,” Mayor Francis Slay declared in a formal statement. He added, “Speculation that this attack had anything to do with the Ferguson protests is absolutely unfounded.”

    , @reiner Tor
    I'm foreigner and I also had some difficulties with some of the terms and abbreviations.

    I guess the "World War Letter" thingy comes from the movie World War Z, a world war against zombies infected by some kind of infectious zombiism (I haven't seen the movie, but so much I know), so there Z stood for Zombie. Steve started using this to refer to the world war fought in the name of gay rights, World War G (G standing for Gay, obviously), transsexual rights (World War T), black rights (World War B), feminism (World War F), etc. I'm not sure he used all of the above, but I'm sure he did use World Wars G and T.

    Some other useful abbreviations:

    SJW - Social Justice Warrior
    SWPL - Stuff White People Like, it's coming from a blog describing urban white liberals, so when somebody here refers to "SWPLs", he refers to urban white liberals. Also, SWPL should be pronounced something like swipple.
    NAM - Non-Asian Minority, i.e. underachieving minority, in the US primarily blacks and Hispanics

    Regarding Who, whom, Lenin famously said that was the essence of politics - who, whom? This means that for example the important question is not whether there was a brutal secret police or how bad that secret police was, but the question was who had the secret police (the Tzar or the revolutionaries) and against whom did they use it (against the toiling masses or against enemies of the people). In still other words, principles (like Secret Police Is Always Bad) are useless, and are disregarded the moment they inconvenience the left.

    In spite of who, whom, the left often pretends that they are people of principles, but it often (in fact, almost always) breaks down to who, whom: yes, we break some principles, but it doesn't matter because we are the Good People and we are doing it to Bad People.
  18. @Auntie Analogue
    You nailed it, Tokyo Joe, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch's "Detectives do not believe the attackers took anything but Begic’s life" sentence is perhaps the most callous I've ever read.

    To Tokyo Joe & Auntie Analogue:

    the St. Louis Post-Dispatch’s “Detectives do not believe the attackers took anything but Begic’s life” sentence is perhaps the most callous I’ve ever read.

    You said it. I’m not often stopped cold when reading a news article, but this one did it.

    How is this sentence even intended to be read? Are the article’s writers trying to partially exonerate the killers by implying that the wayward lads had no evil motives in mind, and a confrontation and murder just (passively-voiced) ‘occurred’? Or is the sentence meant to be brutal and ironic, and hence somewhat inflammatory?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't intended to catch readers' attentions. The mayor, the police chief, and the editor of the newspaper are all telling everybody to move along, nothing to see here, so the reporter slipped in something awkward, but not something he could get in trouble over. Or maybe I'm all wrong about this.
    , @David In TN
    Yep, they are trying to play down the heinous nature of the crime as much as possible. The police and press are in league in this despicable endeavor.
    , @Desiderius

    Are the article’s writers trying to partially exonerate the killers by implying that the wayward lads had no evil motives in mind, and a confrontation and murder just (passively-voiced) ‘occurred’? Or is the sentence meant to be brutal and ironic, and hence somewhat inflammatory?
     
    The writer is saying, brutally, "it wasn't a robbery;" perhaps hinting at an underlying, and also brutal, truth he was not allowed to report.

    Alternatively, perhaps an attempt to be artful in a minimalist way, a la Hemingway.
  19. The R, W, and F words? I assume R is for race, and W is for white, but I’m lost on the last one. For that matter, I could be wrong about the other two.

    Read More
  20. @The Last Real Calvinist
    To Tokyo Joe & Auntie Analogue:

    the St. Louis Post-Dispatch’s “Detectives do not believe the attackers took anything but Begic’s life” sentence is perhaps the most callous I’ve ever read.

     

    You said it. I'm not often stopped cold when reading a news article, but this one did it.

    How is this sentence even intended to be read? Are the article's writers trying to partially exonerate the killers by implying that the wayward lads had no evil motives in mind, and a confrontation and murder just (passively-voiced) 'occurred'? Or is the sentence meant to be brutal and ironic, and hence somewhat inflammatory?

    I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t intended to catch readers’ attentions. The mayor, the police chief, and the editor of the newspaper are all telling everybody to move along, nothing to see here, so the reporter slipped in something awkward, but not something he could get in trouble over. Or maybe I’m all wrong about this.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    I hope you're right, Steve.
    , @jiml
    Steve: I think you are giving the reporter too much credit. In the wake of massive layoffs, many of the remaining reporters at the Post-Disgrace are semi-literate cretins
  21. “I understand that the Bosnians can help themselves by pushing the anti-Bosnian hate crime angle, but it would be nice if, having established their ethnic minority credentials, they could come out as white people and fight on that front as well.”

    You will NEVER get Bosnian Muslims in the U.S to identify with Mayflower descendent Anglo Saxon Protestants. A Bosnian Muslim will see a Pakistani Muslim as his or her brother or sister before they would a WASP.

    To Bosnians, loyalty to Islam trumps loyalty to Whiteness.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    These Bosnians seem pretty loyal to knocking back a few drinks at the bar on a Saturday night.
    , @Don't look at me
    "You will NEVER get Bosnian Muslims in the U.S to identify with Mayflower descendent Anglo Saxon Protestants. A Bosnian Muslim will see a Pakistani Muslim as his or her brother or sister before they would a WASP.

    To Bosnians, loyalty to Islam trumps loyalty to Whiteness."

    I lived in Bosnia for a time.

    a) This Bosnian might not be Muslim. Bosnia also has plenty of Serb and Slovak ethnics.

    b) Bosnian Muslims are the world's worst Muslims. They eat pork, drink alcohol, keep dogs as pets, and seldom attend mosque. They're young women dress just like female American pop stars. They consider themselves to be Europeans.

    He might have been a devout Muslim, but the smart money says no.
  22. @European-American
    > Nobody Mention the R, W, or F Words!

    Um, ok, ... R=race, W=white, F=f**k?

    or R=revenge, W=war, F=feminist??

    or RWF = Rage Whites Fear. Raging White Female. Restless Writer Fatigue. Right Word Fun.

    I give up. Could someone start an "Explain iSteve"* blog that would explain each post in a way slow or foreign people could understand?

    You could start by explaining what "Whom Whom" means, I never get that one, but I don't know Latin, maybe that's why. I know it's an incredibly concise way of expressing a deep law of society, but I can never quite remember what it is because I immediately get tripped up on what "whom" means.

    It reminds me of German lessons and how I never got what dative was. And it doesn't help at all that Lenin first said it: communist rhetoric is hard, and Russian is worse than German.
    кто? кого? кому? кого? кем? ком?
    http://demotivation.ru/wvqq5kqv1po8pic.html

    *like Explain XKCD, a crowd-sourced site that explains each XKCD cartoon.
    http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1451

    Oh wait, wait, I got it! World War F, World War R, World War W!

    W is white
    R and F come from the mayor’s statement:

    “There is no evidence that this was a crime occasioned by the race or ethnicity of the victim,” Mayor Francis Slay declared in a formal statement. He added, “Speculation that this attack had anything to do with the Ferguson protests is absolutely unfounded.”

    Read More
  23. @Jefferson
    "I understand that the Bosnians can help themselves by pushing the anti-Bosnian hate crime angle, but it would be nice if, having established their ethnic minority credentials, they could come out as white people and fight on that front as well."

    You will NEVER get Bosnian Muslims in the U.S to identify with Mayflower descendent Anglo Saxon Protestants. A Bosnian Muslim will see a Pakistani Muslim as his or her brother or sister before they would a WASP.

    To Bosnians, loyalty to Islam trumps loyalty to Whiteness.

    These Bosnians seem pretty loyal to knocking back a few drinks at the bar on a Saturday night.

    Read More
  24. @Vinny
    Redlining, loan discrimination and predatory mortgages have stripped generations of wealth from the African-American community. What is that if not robbery?

    The Republican Party practices policies of voter suppression. That’s the assault and battery of African-American political rights.

    Mass incarceration criminalizes the very existence of black men and boys. That’s the rape of equal justice.

    Unarmed people are killed by those who are purportedly there to protect and serve them and the “just us” system looks the other way. That’s the murder of basic human rights.

    African Americans have also been long oppressed by what might be called “America on black” crime.

    These young men were fighting back against a system that has continually defecated on them. Unfortunately things went to far. It sucks because these boys will have their futures stolen away. In truth white racism killed Mr. Begic.

    These trolls are a riot. (pun not intended)

    “Redlining, loan discrimination and predatory mortgages have stripped generations of wealth from the African-American community. What is that if not robbery?”

    Sensible loan policy.

    “The Republican Party practices policies of voter suppression. That’s the assault and battery of African-American political rights.”

    *snigger*

    Pretty sure illiterate felons not voting is a good thing.

    “Mass incarceration criminalizes the very existence of black men and boys. That’s the rape of equal justice.”

    No it’s the system cleansing itself.

    “Unarmed people are killed by those who are purportedly there to protect and serve them and the “just us” system looks the other way. That’s the murder of basic human rights.”

    If a negro attacks a police officer, his life is forfeit. Don’t like it? Too fucking bad.

    “African Americans have also been long oppressed by what might be called “America on black” crime.”

    Nah, it’s negroid on negroid crime.

    “These young men were fighting back against a system that has continually defecated on them. Unfortunately things went to far. It sucks because these boys will have their futures stolen away. In truth white racism killed Mr. Begic.”

    I can think of at least one person more deserving to die of “white racism”.

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  25. @Steve Sailer
    I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't intended to catch readers' attentions. The mayor, the police chief, and the editor of the newspaper are all telling everybody to move along, nothing to see here, so the reporter slipped in something awkward, but not something he could get in trouble over. Or maybe I'm all wrong about this.

    I hope you’re right, Steve.

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  26. @Vinny
    Redlining, loan discrimination and predatory mortgages have stripped generations of wealth from the African-American community. What is that if not robbery?

    The Republican Party practices policies of voter suppression. That’s the assault and battery of African-American political rights.

    Mass incarceration criminalizes the very existence of black men and boys. That’s the rape of equal justice.

    Unarmed people are killed by those who are purportedly there to protect and serve them and the “just us” system looks the other way. That’s the murder of basic human rights.

    African Americans have also been long oppressed by what might be called “America on black” crime.

    These young men were fighting back against a system that has continually defecated on them. Unfortunately things went to far. It sucks because these boys will have their futures stolen away. In truth white racism killed Mr. Begic.

    That’s a very convincing parody of a leftist idiot. You really had me going there for a while.

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  27. @Vinny
    Redlining, loan discrimination and predatory mortgages have stripped generations of wealth from the African-American community. What is that if not robbery?

    The Republican Party practices policies of voter suppression. That’s the assault and battery of African-American political rights.

    Mass incarceration criminalizes the very existence of black men and boys. That’s the rape of equal justice.

    Unarmed people are killed by those who are purportedly there to protect and serve them and the “just us” system looks the other way. That’s the murder of basic human rights.

    African Americans have also been long oppressed by what might be called “America on black” crime.

    These young men were fighting back against a system that has continually defecated on them. Unfortunately things went to far. It sucks because these boys will have their futures stolen away. In truth white racism killed Mr. Begic.

    That’s a pretty good litany of made up nonsense, and I appreciate the “whitey be the REAL criminal” conceit. Still, I really think this needs some rhyming, some alliteration, maybe some biblical references to really make it stack up against the best of black race-huckster bullshit.

    I give it a B-. You’ve got potential, but you’ll need to study up if you want to match the Jesses, the Als and, yes, the Martins of the racial grievance world.

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  28. “These Bosnians seem pretty loyal to knocking back a few drinks at the bar on a Saturday night.”

    The 9/11 terrorists went on a cocaine snorting binge before committing the most devastating terrorist attack in the history of The United States.

    Not every Muslim lives a straight edge lifestyle of no drugs and alcohol. Steve would you classify the 9/11 terrorists as Muslims In Name Only ? They were pretty hardcore devoted to Islam.

    Just because a Muslim consumes drugs and or alcohol, it does not make them pro-Western and there for easy to assimilate in a predominantly White Christian country.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Going to a bar on a Saturday night with your wife and a couple of friends sounds pretty St. Louisy to me.
  29. @Jefferson
    "These Bosnians seem pretty loyal to knocking back a few drinks at the bar on a Saturday night."

    The 9/11 terrorists went on a cocaine snorting binge before committing the most devastating terrorist attack in the history of The United States.

    Not every Muslim lives a straight edge lifestyle of no drugs and alcohol. Steve would you classify the 9/11 terrorists as Muslims In Name Only ? They were pretty hardcore devoted to Islam.

    Just because a Muslim consumes drugs and or alcohol, it does not make them pro-Western and there for easy to assimilate in a predominantly White Christian country.

    Going to a bar on a Saturday night with your wife and a couple of friends sounds pretty St. Louisy to me.

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  30. @The Last Real Calvinist
    To Tokyo Joe & Auntie Analogue:

    the St. Louis Post-Dispatch’s “Detectives do not believe the attackers took anything but Begic’s life” sentence is perhaps the most callous I’ve ever read.

     

    You said it. I'm not often stopped cold when reading a news article, but this one did it.

    How is this sentence even intended to be read? Are the article's writers trying to partially exonerate the killers by implying that the wayward lads had no evil motives in mind, and a confrontation and murder just (passively-voiced) 'occurred'? Or is the sentence meant to be brutal and ironic, and hence somewhat inflammatory?

    Yep, they are trying to play down the heinous nature of the crime as much as possible. The police and press are in league in this despicable endeavor.

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  31. So what are these Bosnians (Muslims?) doing in the country anyway? Oh, I forgot NATO blew their country apart, sorry that was insensitive of me.

    Bosnian music:

    Goran Bregović Wedding & Funeral Band – Kalašnjikov @ Sziget Festival 2011, Budapest,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WKeePYhgSY

    BLACK FERGUSON RESIDENTS ARMED WITH AR-15S SAVE WHITE OWNER’S BUSINESS

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/11/29/Black-Ferguson-Residents-Armed-With-AR-15s-Save-White-Owned-Business

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  32. The authorities in Knoxville, Tennessee made the same kind of mealy-mouthed statements concerning the Christian-Newsom torture murders in January 2007. That time it was the Knoxville Chief of Police and the Knox County DA’s chief spokesman.

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  33. they can’t respond as Bosnians, because their enemies are not from a clan and were not after them as Bosnians

    I know Albanians are clannish, but Bosnians? Maybe the more mountainous ones but I was under the impression Bosnian Muslims were fairly urban.

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  34. “Going to a bar on a Saturday night with your wife and a couple of friends sounds pretty St. Louisy to me.”

    Mexicans also like to go to a bar on Saturday night and get wasted. And how well is that assimilation thing working out for Mexicans in your hometown of Los Angeles ? Are most Mexicans in Los Angeles culturally American as apple pie ? Those same Mexicans in the U.S who love going to bars on Saturday nights are the ones booing the U.S national soccer team whenever they play Mexico.

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    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    Any people who do this are more assimilated into the American way of life than many (not all) SWPLs are.
  35. Mitchell and one of the two juveniles in custody are black, police said; the other is Hispanic.

    So blacks and at least one Hispanic worked together on this. Does anyone else find that odd?

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  36. “So blacks and at least one Hispanic worked together on this. Does anyone else find that odd?”

    Why would you find that odd ? The poverty rate in the U.S among Hispanics is high, so many of them live in close proximity to the African American underclass and interact with them on a daily basis. So it is definitely not unusual for a Hispanic thug to team with an African American thug.

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  37. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Vinny
    Redlining, loan discrimination and predatory mortgages have stripped generations of wealth from the African-American community. What is that if not robbery?

    The Republican Party practices policies of voter suppression. That’s the assault and battery of African-American political rights.

    Mass incarceration criminalizes the very existence of black men and boys. That’s the rape of equal justice.

    Unarmed people are killed by those who are purportedly there to protect and serve them and the “just us” system looks the other way. That’s the murder of basic human rights.

    African Americans have also been long oppressed by what might be called “America on black” crime.

    These young men were fighting back against a system that has continually defecated on them. Unfortunately things went to far. It sucks because these boys will have their futures stolen away. In truth white racism killed Mr. Begic.

    Republican Party does not practice voter suppression. Get off your Liberal BS. Republican party is the party that fights for civil rights. Learn your history and stop believing Soros media owned bullshit. So tired of the democratic sheep that obviously don’t know their history.

    https://www.gop.com/history/

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  38. “We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.

    She forgot to add that the attack was “random”.

    I see there are no holderesque cowards in the St Louis PD.

    I would guess that, statistically, Whites are significantly more likely to be in ‘the wrong place at the wrong time’ when they’re in a heavily non-white area — that would seem to take some of the ‘randomness’ out of it.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    I would guess that, statistically, Whites are significantly more likely to be in ‘the wrong place at the wrong time’ when they’re in a heavily non-white area — that would seem to take some of the ‘randomness’ out of it.
     
    Remember Derb's "The Talk"
    , @Alfa 158
    She also forgot to characterize it as a "hammer murder gone wrong"
  39. > “We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.

    Imagine a police officer tells two youths to stop walking down the middle of the street. What he doesn’t know is that the extremely large one is stoned and had just committed a strongarm robbery nine minutes earlier. Wrong place, wrong time?

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  40. @iSteveFan
    “We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.

    The wrong place, wrong time excuse seems to come up a lot with a certain segment of our population.

    Detectives do not believe the attackers took anything but Begic’s life.. …

    Then we can rule out robbery I suppose. But what is the evidence to dismiss the hate crime aspect?

    The Bosnian flag looks like the Quebec flag with the blue and white and fleur de lis.

    I saw that too. Apparently the Kings of Bosnia used to use the Fleur-de-lis before they were conquered by the Ottomans. Later they were used again from 1992-1998 on the Bosnian coat of arms. But since 1998, the Fleur-de-lis has not been used. I wonder why these folks are still displaying them?

    Because the current flag of Bosnia and Herzegovina sucks, and was designed by Eurocrats because the Bosniaks, Croats, and Serbs could not agree on common symbols.

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  41. “We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.

    When a white cop shoots (and kills) a minority thug in self-defence its murder of an innocent child but when minority thugs kill a law-abiding white its sort of like a tree branch falling on your head or something….

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  42. I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t intended to catch readers’ attentions. The mayor, the police chief, and the editor of the newspaper are all telling everybody to move along, nothing to see here, so the reporter slipped in something awkward, but not something he could get in trouble over. Or maybe I’m all wrong about this.

    Looked that way to me.

    It’s deadpan, which if delivered correctly leaves quite an impression.

    Reporters know how and what they are supposed to write these days, but people have limits. This how you bend the rules without quite breaking them. A few more Fergusons, and we’ll see people breaking them.

    Given the fact that the democrats are doubling down and apparently hell-bent on starting a real racial insurrection, I’m half expecting to see a significant number of outer party professionals rebel for the first time in my life before the decade is over.

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  43. @Jefferson
    "I understand that the Bosnians can help themselves by pushing the anti-Bosnian hate crime angle, but it would be nice if, having established their ethnic minority credentials, they could come out as white people and fight on that front as well."

    You will NEVER get Bosnian Muslims in the U.S to identify with Mayflower descendent Anglo Saxon Protestants. A Bosnian Muslim will see a Pakistani Muslim as his or her brother or sister before they would a WASP.

    To Bosnians, loyalty to Islam trumps loyalty to Whiteness.

    “You will NEVER get Bosnian Muslims in the U.S to identify with Mayflower descendent Anglo Saxon Protestants. A Bosnian Muslim will see a Pakistani Muslim as his or her brother or sister before they would a WASP.

    To Bosnians, loyalty to Islam trumps loyalty to Whiteness.”

    I lived in Bosnia for a time.

    a) This Bosnian might not be Muslim. Bosnia also has plenty of Serb and Slovak ethnics.

    b) Bosnian Muslims are the world’s worst Muslims. They eat pork, drink alcohol, keep dogs as pets, and seldom attend mosque. They’re young women dress just like female American pop stars. They consider themselves to be Europeans.

    He might have been a devout Muslim, but the smart money says no.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    There could be some Slovaks in Bosnia, but I doubt there are too many. Actually, I think there's no Slovak diaspora there, only in Serbia and Croatia.

    Bosnia's population is Bosniak (Muslim, the largest ethnicity), Serb (second largest ethnicity), and Croat (third largest ethnicity), but of course there are others. However, only the Muslims use the national flag in the picture, so this guy must have been Muslim. All three ethnicities speak the same language, the main difference is the religion. Serbs and Croats outside Bosnia will probably mostly identify as Serbs and Croats, and not as Bosnians.

    , @Niccolo Salo
    "a) This Bosnian might not be Muslim. Bosnia also has plenty of Serb and Slovak ethnics. "

    He is a Muslim, as his first name indicates. 95% of the time, it's easy to figure out who in Bosnia is a Croat, Serb, or Muslim based on their names alone.

    "b) Bosnian Muslims are the world’s worst Muslims. They eat pork, drink alcohol, keep dogs as pets, and seldom attend mosque. They’re young women dress just like female American pop stars. They consider themselves to be Europeans."

    Albanian Muslims are probably even poorer Muslims as Albanians of all three faiths are more into Albanianism (see the Medieval Kanun Lek/Code of Lek, especially in northern areas) than into their respective faiths.

    Bosnian Muslims most closely identify with Turkey even if they consider themselves Europeans. Their heyday lasted from the 16th to 19th centuries, a time when the Ottomans ruled over much of southeastern Europe. Even though they most closely identify with Turks to the point where their Grand Mufti publicly stated 'we are Turks', they consider it a pejorative when they are referred to as Turks by local Serbs and Croats.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Rita Ora is a Balkan (nominal) Muslim: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=rita+ora&FORM=HDRSC2#a

    Seems the further you get away from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, the less strict the Muslims are.
  44. @Vinny
    Redlining, loan discrimination and predatory mortgages have stripped generations of wealth from the African-American community. What is that if not robbery?

    The Republican Party practices policies of voter suppression. That’s the assault and battery of African-American political rights.

    Mass incarceration criminalizes the very existence of black men and boys. That’s the rape of equal justice.

    Unarmed people are killed by those who are purportedly there to protect and serve them and the “just us” system looks the other way. That’s the murder of basic human rights.

    African Americans have also been long oppressed by what might be called “America on black” crime.

    These young men were fighting back against a system that has continually defecated on them. Unfortunately things went to far. It sucks because these boys will have their futures stolen away. In truth white racism killed Mr. Begic.

    Poe’s Law.

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  45. @European-American
    > Nobody Mention the R, W, or F Words!

    Um, ok, ... R=race, W=white, F=f**k?

    or R=revenge, W=war, F=feminist??

    or RWF = Rage Whites Fear. Raging White Female. Restless Writer Fatigue. Right Word Fun.

    I give up. Could someone start an "Explain iSteve"* blog that would explain each post in a way slow or foreign people could understand?

    You could start by explaining what "Whom Whom" means, I never get that one, but I don't know Latin, maybe that's why. I know it's an incredibly concise way of expressing a deep law of society, but I can never quite remember what it is because I immediately get tripped up on what "whom" means.

    It reminds me of German lessons and how I never got what dative was. And it doesn't help at all that Lenin first said it: communist rhetoric is hard, and Russian is worse than German.
    кто? кого? кому? кого? кем? ком?
    http://demotivation.ru/wvqq5kqv1po8pic.html

    *like Explain XKCD, a crowd-sourced site that explains each XKCD cartoon.
    http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1451

    Oh wait, wait, I got it! World War F, World War R, World War W!

    I’m foreigner and I also had some difficulties with some of the terms and abbreviations.

    I guess the “World War Letter” thingy comes from the movie World War Z, a world war against zombies infected by some kind of infectious zombiism (I haven’t seen the movie, but so much I know), so there Z stood for Zombie. Steve started using this to refer to the world war fought in the name of gay rights, World War G (G standing for Gay, obviously), transsexual rights (World War T), black rights (World War B), feminism (World War F), etc. I’m not sure he used all of the above, but I’m sure he did use World Wars G and T.

    Some other useful abbreviations:

    SJW – Social Justice Warrior
    SWPL – Stuff White People Like, it’s coming from a blog describing urban white liberals, so when somebody here refers to “SWPLs”, he refers to urban white liberals. Also, SWPL should be pronounced something like swipple.
    NAM – Non-Asian Minority, i.e. underachieving minority, in the US primarily blacks and Hispanics

    Regarding Who, whom, Lenin famously said that was the essence of politics – who, whom? This means that for example the important question is not whether there was a brutal secret police or how bad that secret police was, but the question was who had the secret police (the Tzar or the revolutionaries) and against whom did they use it (against the toiling masses or against enemies of the people). In still other words, principles (like Secret Police Is Always Bad) are useless, and are disregarded the moment they inconvenience the left.

    In spite of who, whom, the left often pretends that they are people of principles, but it often (in fact, almost always) breaks down to who, whom: yes, we break some principles, but it doesn’t matter because we are the Good People and we are doing it to Bad People.

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  46. @Don't look at me
    "You will NEVER get Bosnian Muslims in the U.S to identify with Mayflower descendent Anglo Saxon Protestants. A Bosnian Muslim will see a Pakistani Muslim as his or her brother or sister before they would a WASP.

    To Bosnians, loyalty to Islam trumps loyalty to Whiteness."

    I lived in Bosnia for a time.

    a) This Bosnian might not be Muslim. Bosnia also has plenty of Serb and Slovak ethnics.

    b) Bosnian Muslims are the world's worst Muslims. They eat pork, drink alcohol, keep dogs as pets, and seldom attend mosque. They're young women dress just like female American pop stars. They consider themselves to be Europeans.

    He might have been a devout Muslim, but the smart money says no.

    There could be some Slovaks in Bosnia, but I doubt there are too many. Actually, I think there’s no Slovak diaspora there, only in Serbia and Croatia.

    Bosnia’s population is Bosniak (Muslim, the largest ethnicity), Serb (second largest ethnicity), and Croat (third largest ethnicity), but of course there are others. However, only the Muslims use the national flag in the picture, so this guy must have been Muslim. All three ethnicities speak the same language, the main difference is the religion. Serbs and Croats outside Bosnia will probably mostly identify as Serbs and Croats, and not as Bosnians.

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    • Replies: @Rusty Shackleford
    I'm a St Louisan with ties to that region, and I'd say that's one of the more correct posts that I've read here. The Bosniaks identify as Bosnians while the Bosnian Serbs and Croats that I know identify by their ethnicity rather than nationality. They tell me this is because they don't want to offend Bosniaks or confuse Americans. All 3 groups have a propensity to identify as and call themselves European when possible, probably because even mentioning their ethnic group tends to dredge up history which is mutually unpleasant to all 3 groups.

    Bosniaks sound like an exotic group, but over the past 20 years they've for all effective purposes been just another group of Slavic immigrants, which St. Louis has had a lot of over the past 100 years or so. They work hard and they've vastly improved the blighted neighborhoods that they have moved into. The Bosnians that I've known personally tended to work in trades, and were functionally no different in their life styles from other blue collar St. Louisans. I'd say this truck driver was a pretty typical representative of the community. Based on the ones that I've know, the idea that they're secretly yearning back to the days of the Ottoman Caliphate is completely laughable. The possibility of any sort of retaliation on their part as a community seems highly unlikely to me, also. My general impression is that they're too busy with their work and family for that.
  47. Your comment section here at Unz is really liberal now.

    I just feel like you had a better…more conservative…more hard-line group of people back at the blog.

    These people, and several of them, are oddly effeminate metrosexuals even though they talk all tough.

    It’s weird. I don’t like these people on this comment section.

    You definitely got a different vibe here then you used to. Oh well.

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    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    I think it's overlap from the potheads, Unitarians, and old hippies who post at The American Conservative.
  48. @Don't look at me
    "You will NEVER get Bosnian Muslims in the U.S to identify with Mayflower descendent Anglo Saxon Protestants. A Bosnian Muslim will see a Pakistani Muslim as his or her brother or sister before they would a WASP.

    To Bosnians, loyalty to Islam trumps loyalty to Whiteness."

    I lived in Bosnia for a time.

    a) This Bosnian might not be Muslim. Bosnia also has plenty of Serb and Slovak ethnics.

    b) Bosnian Muslims are the world's worst Muslims. They eat pork, drink alcohol, keep dogs as pets, and seldom attend mosque. They're young women dress just like female American pop stars. They consider themselves to be Europeans.

    He might have been a devout Muslim, but the smart money says no.

    “a) This Bosnian might not be Muslim. Bosnia also has plenty of Serb and Slovak ethnics. ”

    He is a Muslim, as his first name indicates. 95% of the time, it’s easy to figure out who in Bosnia is a Croat, Serb, or Muslim based on their names alone.

    “b) Bosnian Muslims are the world’s worst Muslims. They eat pork, drink alcohol, keep dogs as pets, and seldom attend mosque. They’re young women dress just like female American pop stars. They consider themselves to be Europeans.”

    Albanian Muslims are probably even poorer Muslims as Albanians of all three faiths are more into Albanianism (see the Medieval Kanun Lek/Code of Lek, especially in northern areas) than into their respective faiths.

    Bosnian Muslims most closely identify with Turkey even if they consider themselves Europeans. Their heyday lasted from the 16th to 19th centuries, a time when the Ottomans ruled over much of southeastern Europe. Even though they most closely identify with Turks to the point where their Grand Mufti publicly stated ‘we are Turks’, they consider it a pejorative when they are referred to as Turks by local Serbs and Croats.

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    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    Niccolo:

    Thanks for that. Good information there. Yeah the name Zemir kind of gives away that he was at least nominally Muslim. I find the assertions of monolithic Islam to be as ludicrous as, well, monolithic anything---communism or even feminism.
  49. “Detectives do not believe the attackers took anything but Begic’s life”

    Come on, this is obviously a reporter who’s reached his personal boiling point and bravo to him. But how sad the free speech-loving U.S. has come to this–reporters tapping out code to their information-starved readers through the bars of The Narrative.

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  50. The Hispanics who associate most frequently with blacks are Puerto Ricans. For some reasons, blacks and PRs get along very well. If there was a mixed group of blacks/Hispanics beating this man to death, I’d bet they were PRs.

    2nd/3rd/4th generation Mexicans may imitate ghetto black slang and listen to rap, but they generally aren’t going to gang bang with blacks. The two groups are too different. Also, unlike blacks, Mexicans don’t have the same intensity of racial animus towards whites. Lots of lower-income and mixed ancestry whites join Mexican gangs.

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  51. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @eah
    “We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.

    She forgot to add that the attack was "random".

    I see there are no holderesque cowards in the St Louis PD.

    I would guess that, statistically, Whites are significantly more likely to be in 'the wrong place at the wrong time' when they're in a heavily non-white area -- that would seem to take some of the 'randomness' out of it.

    I would guess that, statistically, Whites are significantly more likely to be in ‘the wrong place at the wrong time’ when they’re in a heavily non-white area — that would seem to take some of the ‘randomness’ out of it.

    Remember Derb’s “The Talk”

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  52. @Niccolo Salo
    "a) This Bosnian might not be Muslim. Bosnia also has plenty of Serb and Slovak ethnics. "

    He is a Muslim, as his first name indicates. 95% of the time, it's easy to figure out who in Bosnia is a Croat, Serb, or Muslim based on their names alone.

    "b) Bosnian Muslims are the world’s worst Muslims. They eat pork, drink alcohol, keep dogs as pets, and seldom attend mosque. They’re young women dress just like female American pop stars. They consider themselves to be Europeans."

    Albanian Muslims are probably even poorer Muslims as Albanians of all three faiths are more into Albanianism (see the Medieval Kanun Lek/Code of Lek, especially in northern areas) than into their respective faiths.

    Bosnian Muslims most closely identify with Turkey even if they consider themselves Europeans. Their heyday lasted from the 16th to 19th centuries, a time when the Ottomans ruled over much of southeastern Europe. Even though they most closely identify with Turks to the point where their Grand Mufti publicly stated 'we are Turks', they consider it a pejorative when they are referred to as Turks by local Serbs and Croats.

    Niccolo:

    Thanks for that. Good information there. Yeah the name Zemir kind of gives away that he was at least nominally Muslim. I find the assertions of monolithic Islam to be as ludicrous as, well, monolithic anything—communism or even feminism.

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  53. It didn’t take long for the mayor, police chief and media people to jump into action and shamelessly lie to the public. They don’t even have all the suspects in custody yet know what they were thinking. Boy, do I get tired of hearing phrases like ‘wrong place at the wrong time’ ‘random’ etc. I’m living in a country where everyone from the president on down to the merest local bureaucrat lies as a matter of reflex. What’s so ‘wrong place’ about going home after being out Saturday night with one’s spouse?
    Most of those Bosnians are from urban areas and their Islam is a historical inheritance that many of them don’t take all that seriously just as people here are supposed to be Christian yet can’t be bothered with it, for the most part. More are probably atheist in practice if not by declaration than are believers. They’re one of the groups contained within Europe with their own peculiarities; not everyone in Europe is a WASP. The Balkans are intrinsically complicated and confusing even to those who’ve lived there so it’s hard to impart much about it in two minute sound bites, especially to a public where the extent of most people’s knowledge about various groups is rather minimal, something like: Italians= mafia, Germans=Nazis, Irish=sentimental drinkers, Czech=what’s a check?, Spaniard=a Mexican, Puerto Rican or Peruvian Indian, Lithuanian=hmmm, went to school with one once, seemed nice, etc etc.

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  54. Priss Factor [AKA "terrapin gape"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/joe-scarborough-just-went-on-an-epic-tirade-about-ferguson-2014-12

    So, it took some incident on a football field to finally fire up Scarborough to speak the truth.

    Only in America.

    Are we to assume that, if not for the St. Louis Rams stunt he would have remained silent on the matter?

    What an idiot.

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    • Replies: @Southfarthing
    Even that article is using disinformation:

    [Scarborough] cited Brown *allegedly* robbing a convenience store before his fatal encounter with Wilson.
     
    Imagine how upset liberals would be if news articles were describing humans as "allegedly evolving from primates."

    Yet Brown robbing the store and assaulting the diminutive clerk is demoted to "alleged" even when we can see it with our lying eyes.

  55. @Francis
    “We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.

    Place and time again?!

    “We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.

    As opposed to that usual suspect, the evil Random.

    This is the sort of pretzel logic that gets trotted out whenever whites wander into the wilderness preserve. A young white Bosnian happened to stumble into an area where some yoofs were jus swingin dey hammers and his head got in the “wrong place, wrong time.”

    Public officials are always frantically scrambling to put the kibosh on white pan-ethnic solidarity because they know whites are only about one or two turns of the worm away from realizing that Alabama vs. Auburn isn’t nearly as important as r vs. K.

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  56. @Robbie
    Your comment section here at Unz is really liberal now.

    I just feel like you had a better...more conservative...more hard-line group of people back at the blog.

    These people, and several of them, are oddly effeminate metrosexuals even though they talk all tough.

    It's weird. I don't like these people on this comment section.

    You definitely got a different vibe here then you used to. Oh well.

    I think it’s overlap from the potheads, Unitarians, and old hippies who post at The American Conservative.

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  57. It will be interesting to see if the “Hispanic” is just a black guy named Juan. That’s something you see in the news around here. Three black guys get caught and one of them is named Antonio so the press say he is Hispanic.

    I’m thinking that Hispanic will become the utility infielder of race hustling. When the narrative needs less color, bring in the Hispanic! When the narrative needs a white villain, make the Hispanic a white-Hispanic! In short order Hispanics will stop giving their kids Spanish names so they can just be white and be done with it.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    In short order Hispanics will stop giving their kids Spanish names so they can just be white and be done with it.
     
    Already a trend. Lots of Mexican Leslies in my city. And a very young Jennifer in my neighborhood. For whites, Jennifer Lawrence is way behind the curve. It's immigrants who keep that overused-and-now-abandoned name in the top 200.

    And don't forget Evan Longoria, who's not Eva in drag. He ain't close to galés.

  58. @Steve Sailer
    I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't intended to catch readers' attentions. The mayor, the police chief, and the editor of the newspaper are all telling everybody to move along, nothing to see here, so the reporter slipped in something awkward, but not something he could get in trouble over. Or maybe I'm all wrong about this.

    Steve: I think you are giving the reporter too much credit. In the wake of massive layoffs, many of the remaining reporters at the Post-Disgrace are semi-literate cretins

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  59. St. Louis is the home of Eric Brende, author of “Better Off,” which is a really interesting account of living with Anabaptist fundamentalists that I think Steve would appreciate. He moved to the center of St. Louis in what appeared to be a gentrification movement. Apparently, it wasn’t gentrified enough.

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  60. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    “We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.

    Wrong race, wrong slime.

    Any more words that fit and rhyme?

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  61. Bosnians, as new immigrants, are no doubt seen as vulnerable whites by blacks in St. Louis. Of course, some leftist intellectuals will soon write than the Bosnians became “racist” in order to secure white status in America. The constant attacks on them by black males had absolutely nothing to do with it, naturally.

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  62. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    “Robert Joseph Mitchell, 17, who lives on Winnebago Street, turned himself in at city police headquarters late Sunday and was charged with first-degree murder and armed criminal action.”

    Just wondering. Why would you turn yourself in for murder? That always perplexes me. It’s not like being a murderer who was honest about it gets much better treatment than a murderer who got caught trying to get away.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Bonfire of the Vanities talks about that: murderers tend to be homeboys. A man arrested for killing his best friend in some stupid dispute is described as such a homeboy he's never seen the Atlantic Ocean. The cops give him a bucket of KFC and he is content. The Puerto Rican witnesses, however, are manacled to the desks so they don't light out for San Juan.
  63. @anon
    "Robert Joseph Mitchell, 17, who lives on Winnebago Street, turned himself in at city police headquarters late Sunday and was charged with first-degree murder and armed criminal action."

    Just wondering. Why would you turn yourself in for murder? That always perplexes me. It's not like being a murderer who was honest about it gets much better treatment than a murderer who got caught trying to get away.

    Bonfire of the Vanities talks about that: murderers tend to be homeboys. A man arrested for killing his best friend in some stupid dispute is described as such a homeboy he’s never seen the Atlantic Ocean. The cops give him a bucket of KFC and he is content. The Puerto Rican witnesses, however, are manacled to the desks so they don’t light out for San Juan.

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  64. @sutton
    If only the convenience store/cigar joint Indian had just shot Brown dead .

    If only Michael Brown had been there.He no doubt would’ve urged these black babies to slowly casually walk toward the police with their hands up. How sad that these mothers have their babies black bodies locked up.No doubt theyre making t shirts for sale as we speak.

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  65. @Vinny
    Redlining, loan discrimination and predatory mortgages have stripped generations of wealth from the African-American community. What is that if not robbery?

    The Republican Party practices policies of voter suppression. That’s the assault and battery of African-American political rights.

    Mass incarceration criminalizes the very existence of black men and boys. That’s the rape of equal justice.

    Unarmed people are killed by those who are purportedly there to protect and serve them and the “just us” system looks the other way. That’s the murder of basic human rights.

    African Americans have also been long oppressed by what might be called “America on black” crime.

    These young men were fighting back against a system that has continually defecated on them. Unfortunately things went to far. It sucks because these boys will have their futures stolen away. In truth white racism killed Mr. Begic.

    We have a Ta-Nehisi Coates reader with us.

    I wonder if Coates or Vinny has ever considered how this critique of America is essentially racist against blacks. It implies that the mechanism by which 20th century America harmed blacks is by having them live near and send their kids to school with other blacks.

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  66. @Oswald Spengler
    A lot of people sure do seem to find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. Funny how that seems to happen more often to some than to others though.

    A lot of people sure do seem to find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Yeah, the youths just happened to be walking around with hammers, too.

    The inevitable joke about hammer time seems in poor taste.

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  67. Bosnian Muslims most closely identify with Turkey even if they consider themselves Europeans. Their heyday lasted from the 16th to 19th centuries, a time when the Ottomans ruled over much of southeastern Europe. Even though they most closely identify with Turks to the point where their Grand Mufti publicly stated ‘we are Turks’, they consider it a pejorative when they are referred to as Turks by local Serbs and Croats.

    If Bosniaks really feel that way then it is probably safe to assume they are somewhat disappointed that the Ottomans did not make it past the Gates of Vienna. I assume they are somewhat disappointed that Greece and the rest of the Balkans are still not under Ottoman control.

    I just don’t see how you can feel you are European, yet still identify with an outside force who wanted to conquer and enslave Europe.

    During the Balkan Wars of the 1990s, I was torn when watching Croats fighting Serbs. But I instinctively sided with both Croats and Serbs against the Bosniaks, and later with the Serbs against the Albanians. If what you wrote is true, then I am happy that my instincts were spot on.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Why were you torn between Croats and Serbs? Serbs are more foreign from Western Europe than Croats, who are Roman Catholic.

    Also the Croats also allied with the Bosniaks against the Serbs.
    , @Anonymous

    I just don’t see how you can feel you are European, yet still identify with an outside force who wanted to conquer and enslave Europe.
     
    Some far right and neo-pagan types feel the same about things like Christianity.
  68. @The Last Real Calvinist
    To Tokyo Joe & Auntie Analogue:

    the St. Louis Post-Dispatch’s “Detectives do not believe the attackers took anything but Begic’s life” sentence is perhaps the most callous I’ve ever read.

     

    You said it. I'm not often stopped cold when reading a news article, but this one did it.

    How is this sentence even intended to be read? Are the article's writers trying to partially exonerate the killers by implying that the wayward lads had no evil motives in mind, and a confrontation and murder just (passively-voiced) 'occurred'? Or is the sentence meant to be brutal and ironic, and hence somewhat inflammatory?

    Are the article’s writers trying to partially exonerate the killers by implying that the wayward lads had no evil motives in mind, and a confrontation and murder just (passively-voiced) ‘occurred’? Or is the sentence meant to be brutal and ironic, and hence somewhat inflammatory?

    The writer is saying, brutally, “it wasn’t a robbery;” perhaps hinting at an underlying, and also brutal, truth he was not allowed to report.

    Alternatively, perhaps an attempt to be artful in a minimalist way, a la Hemingway.

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  69. @Don't look at me
    "You will NEVER get Bosnian Muslims in the U.S to identify with Mayflower descendent Anglo Saxon Protestants. A Bosnian Muslim will see a Pakistani Muslim as his or her brother or sister before they would a WASP.

    To Bosnians, loyalty to Islam trumps loyalty to Whiteness."

    I lived in Bosnia for a time.

    a) This Bosnian might not be Muslim. Bosnia also has plenty of Serb and Slovak ethnics.

    b) Bosnian Muslims are the world's worst Muslims. They eat pork, drink alcohol, keep dogs as pets, and seldom attend mosque. They're young women dress just like female American pop stars. They consider themselves to be Europeans.

    He might have been a devout Muslim, but the smart money says no.

    Rita Ora is a Balkan (nominal) Muslim: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=rita+ora&FORM=HDRSC2#a

    Seems the further you get away from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, the less strict the Muslims are.

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    • Replies: @Russell
    It does suggest Iraq and afghanistan were the wrong places to invade. Pakistan doesn't have the cash to fund extremism, so that leaves the Saudi peninsula as the next in line for turning to glass.
    I doubt he U.S can afford yet another war, so how about crowd fundng?
  70. I can’t speak to the family of the victims. But I think it is a straight dead certainty that if the “King’s Justice” is not served people will eventually go back to their own private vendettas. The killers are known. They have families. Retaliation against said by feud is as old as the Capulets and Montagues, certainly older than Hatfields and McCoys. Its not as if American history is not strewn with outside the law actions for vengeance.

    Look at the Vigilance Committes in San Francisco. Steve the idea that communal vengeance is clan based does not find support in American vigilante action throughout our history. The Regulators in Pre-Revolutionary Carolinas, the Vigilance Committees, the Draft Riots, all would say that yes, targets of revenge can be found when impartial (for the most part), disinterested justice is tossed out.

    All Ferguson all the time is Obama’s weapon against Hillary. Just as Bill Clinton found some against Al Gore (but failed — Gore being a lifeless bore found plenty of allies who hated Clinton for “pandering” to White Middle and Working Class voters).

    This is a clash of forces. Obama and his urban-Black/SJW wing of the Democratic Party want to crush Hillary for Al Sharpton or Adrian Fenty or Cory Booker. Whoever Obama is backing now that bestest pal Deval Patrick has declined. Straight up against someone inevitably taking revenge when justice cannot be found. Its as predictable as American History.

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    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    To quote George Costanza, "there are no laws in this place. Anything goes. It's Thunderdome!"
  71. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @iSteveFan

    Bosnian Muslims most closely identify with Turkey even if they consider themselves Europeans. Their heyday lasted from the 16th to 19th centuries, a time when the Ottomans ruled over much of southeastern Europe. Even though they most closely identify with Turks to the point where their Grand Mufti publicly stated ‘we are Turks’, they consider it a pejorative when they are referred to as Turks by local Serbs and Croats.
     
    If Bosniaks really feel that way then it is probably safe to assume they are somewhat disappointed that the Ottomans did not make it past the Gates of Vienna. I assume they are somewhat disappointed that Greece and the rest of the Balkans are still not under Ottoman control.

    I just don't see how you can feel you are European, yet still identify with an outside force who wanted to conquer and enslave Europe.

    During the Balkan Wars of the 1990s, I was torn when watching Croats fighting Serbs. But I instinctively sided with both Croats and Serbs against the Bosniaks, and later with the Serbs against the Albanians. If what you wrote is true, then I am happy that my instincts were spot on.

    Why were you torn between Croats and Serbs? Serbs are more foreign from Western Europe than Croats, who are Roman Catholic.

    Also the Croats also allied with the Bosniaks against the Serbs.

    Read More
  72. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @iSteveFan

    Bosnian Muslims most closely identify with Turkey even if they consider themselves Europeans. Their heyday lasted from the 16th to 19th centuries, a time when the Ottomans ruled over much of southeastern Europe. Even though they most closely identify with Turks to the point where their Grand Mufti publicly stated ‘we are Turks’, they consider it a pejorative when they are referred to as Turks by local Serbs and Croats.
     
    If Bosniaks really feel that way then it is probably safe to assume they are somewhat disappointed that the Ottomans did not make it past the Gates of Vienna. I assume they are somewhat disappointed that Greece and the rest of the Balkans are still not under Ottoman control.

    I just don't see how you can feel you are European, yet still identify with an outside force who wanted to conquer and enslave Europe.

    During the Balkan Wars of the 1990s, I was torn when watching Croats fighting Serbs. But I instinctively sided with both Croats and Serbs against the Bosniaks, and later with the Serbs against the Albanians. If what you wrote is true, then I am happy that my instincts were spot on.

    I just don’t see how you can feel you are European, yet still identify with an outside force who wanted to conquer and enslave Europe.

    Some far right and neo-pagan types feel the same about things like Christianity.

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  73. “There is no evidence that this was a crime occasioned by the race or ethnicity of the victim,” Mayor Francis Slay declared in a formal statement.

    Has anyone bothered to ask the white people who were with Begic what happened and what was said by whom? I suspect the authorities never manage to find evidence of racism on the part of blacks because they try desperately hard not to know about it.

    Even without statements from Begic’s fiancee to the effect that the “yoots” were yelling “Kill the white people”, there is at least as much evidence that Begic was killed on account of his race as there was that Brown was. Admittedly that’s none, yet the media and the politicians take it as a given that Brown was a victim of racial murder.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    “There is no evidence that this was a crime occasioned by the race or ethnicity of the victim,” Mayor Francis Slay declared in a formal statement.
     
    The mayor has is ass-backwards. The racial motivation is the default assumption in cases of unprovoked murders by strangers. You need to supply evidence that it wasn't racially motivated, Mr. Mayor.
  74. @Vinny
    Redlining, loan discrimination and predatory mortgages have stripped generations of wealth from the African-American community. What is that if not robbery?

    The Republican Party practices policies of voter suppression. That’s the assault and battery of African-American political rights.

    Mass incarceration criminalizes the very existence of black men and boys. That’s the rape of equal justice.

    Unarmed people are killed by those who are purportedly there to protect and serve them and the “just us” system looks the other way. That’s the murder of basic human rights.

    African Americans have also been long oppressed by what might be called “America on black” crime.

    These young men were fighting back against a system that has continually defecated on them. Unfortunately things went to far. It sucks because these boys will have their futures stolen away. In truth white racism killed Mr. Begic.

    Redlining, loan discrimination and predatory mortgages have stripped generations of wealth from the African-American community. What is that if not robbery?

    Indeed.

    And Eric Holder conveniently never prosecuted the offenders, and now the statute of limitations has run out.

    So who is the real house Negro?

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  75. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Mass incarceration criminalizes the very existence of black men and boys.

    unwahrscheinlich

    black criminals generally kill young black men. Were the killers not incarcerated, they would likely kill many more black men. Mass incarceration likely preserves many more young black men’s lives.

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  76. @Vinny
    Redlining, loan discrimination and predatory mortgages have stripped generations of wealth from the African-American community. What is that if not robbery?

    The Republican Party practices policies of voter suppression. That’s the assault and battery of African-American political rights.

    Mass incarceration criminalizes the very existence of black men and boys. That’s the rape of equal justice.

    Unarmed people are killed by those who are purportedly there to protect and serve them and the “just us” system looks the other way. That’s the murder of basic human rights.

    African Americans have also been long oppressed by what might be called “America on black” crime.

    These young men were fighting back against a system that has continually defecated on them. Unfortunately things went to far. It sucks because these boys will have their futures stolen away. In truth white racism killed Mr. Begic.

    Are you sure you’re on the right blog? It doesn’t sound like you could have ever read anything posted here.

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  77. @Priss Factor
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/joe-scarborough-just-went-on-an-epic-tirade-about-ferguson-2014-12

    So, it took some incident on a football field to finally fire up Scarborough to speak the truth.

    Only in America.

    Are we to assume that, if not for the St. Louis Rams stunt he would have remained silent on the matter?

    What an idiot.

    Even that article is using disinformation:

    [Scarborough] cited Brown *allegedly* robbing a convenience store before his fatal encounter with Wilson.

    Imagine how upset liberals would be if news articles were describing humans as “allegedly evolving from primates.”

    Yet Brown robbing the store and assaulting the diminutive clerk is demoted to “alleged” even when we can see it with our lying eyes.

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  78. “It will be interesting to see if the “Hispanic” is just a black guy named Juan. That’s something you see in the news around here. Three black guys get caught and one of them is named Antonio so the press say he is Hispanic.

    I’m thinking that Hispanic will become the utility infielder of race hustling. When the narrative needs less color, bring in the Hispanic! When the narrative needs a white villain, make the Hispanic a white-Hispanic! In short order Hispanics will stop giving their kids Spanish names so they can just be white and be done with it.”

    There is a Black guy named Juan who works for The Fox News Channel. He is from Panama, which would make him Hispanic. He is a Black Hispanic/Black Panamanian.

    With Panama’s close geographic proximity to the Caribbean, it should not be shocking.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    He is from Panama, which would make him Hispanic. He is a Black Hispanic/Black Panamanian.
     
    Blacks in Panama and all along the Mosquito Coast tend to speak English. Only in Belize did they get their own country. They're essentially misplaced Jamaicans. As are Cuba's remaining cricketers.

    Remember MLB stars Rod Carew and Adolfo Phillips? (BTW, who would name a kid Adolfo in 1941?)
  79. “@Don’t look at me

    Rita Ora is a Balkan (nominal) Muslim: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=rita+ora&FORM=HDRSC2#a

    Seems the further you get away from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, the less strict the Muslims are.”

    A lot of people on the internet say the Albanian Rita Ora does not look White. They say she looks like she is mixed with Black like a Mulata/Quadroon.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    She says she's 100% Albanian ethnically. I think what throws off some internet commenters is her flattish nose: http://youtu.be/50GQjUZ4P3M

    But maybe that's a legacy of Ghengis Khan.
  80. @Jefferson
    "@Don’t look at me

    Rita Ora is a Balkan (nominal) Muslim: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=rita+ora&FORM=HDRSC2#a

    Seems the further you get away from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, the less strict the Muslims are."

    A lot of people on the internet say the Albanian Rita Ora does not look White. They say she looks like she is mixed with Black like a Mulata/Quadroon.

    She says she’s 100% Albanian ethnically. I think what throws off some internet commenters is her flattish nose: http://youtu.be/50GQjUZ4P3M

    But maybe that’s a legacy of Ghengis Khan.

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  81. Why were you torn between Croats and Serbs? Serbs are more foreign from Western Europe than Croats, who are Roman Catholic.

    It is true that Croats are more Western because of the alphabet and Catholicism, but I respect the Orthodox Christians a lot because of the way they held out against the muslims. I suppose the Croats held out too, but I never disliked them. However, I think the Serbs epitomized the spirit of not submitting and thus endured long hardships. They could have turned Turk like the Albanians and Bosniaks, but they did not. I think most Western Euros, who sided with the Croats and even Bosniaks, never stop to think about how their history could have been very much for the worse had the Serbs and the bulk of the Orthodox Christians behaved like the Bosniaks.

    I also feel similarly towards the Russians now that the USSR is gone.

    Also the Croats also allied with the Bosniaks against the Serbs.

    I was referring to the Croat-Serb fight over Croatia and the ensuing ethnic cleansing.

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  82. A lot of people on the internet say the Albanian Rita Ora does not look White. They say she looks like she is mixed with Black like a Mulata/Quadroon.

    I agree. I’d like to see her on Skip Gates’ ancestry show.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Incidentally, Rita Ora did a nice job of impinging in her cameo in the last Fast & Furious movie: http://youtu.be/rMrfjqtaRs4
  83. @iSteveFan

    A lot of people on the internet say the Albanian Rita Ora does not look White. They say she looks like she is mixed with Black like a Mulata/Quadroon.
     
    I agree. I'd like to see her on Skip Gates' ancestry show.

    Incidentally, Rita Ora did a nice job of impinging in her cameo in the last Fast & Furious movie: http://youtu.be/rMrfjqtaRs4

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  84. It was after the State Department, by bureaucratic fiat, resettled tens of thousands of Bosnians in St. Louis that the minaret was erected at the Islamic Community Center (which is round the corner from my former residence).

    Google results for “Bosnian Islamic Center St. Louis”: https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1T4ADFA_enUS380US381&q=bosnian+islamic+center+st+louis&revid=1743406123&sa=X&ei=4FV-VPqHM5anyASnmoHYAg&ved=0CGAQ1QIoAw

    List of mosques in St. Louis – most of them erected after the State Department resettled tens of thousands of Bosnians in St. Louis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mosques_in_St._Louis

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  85. ““We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.”

    Another tragic case of a vicious unprovoked murder gone bad.

    “Fatal hammer attack on Bosnian immigrant not racially motivated, St. Louis police say.”

    Maybe I’ll reconsider my having sided with Darren Wilson. If the police won’t stand with us, why should we stand with them? Next time some white cop is up for an NAACP auto-de-fe ………….. let him burn.

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  86. “There is no evidence that this was a crime occasioned by the race or ethnicity of the victim,” Mayor Francis Slay declared in a formal statement. He added, “Speculation that this attack had anything to do with the Ferguson protests is absolutely unfounded.”

    I have to wonder why they ALWAYS flat out deny that there is a racial angle to black on white violence. Do they get a pamphlet from the Bilderberg Group or is this sort of thing just reflexive anymore?

    I wonder what will happen the first time some white Republican Governor admits an especially egregious attack IS, in fact, racially motivated.

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  87. “She says she’s 100% Albanian ethnically. I think what throws off some internet commenters is her flattish nose: http://youtu.be/50GQjUZ4P3M

    But maybe that’s a legacy of Ghengis Khan.”

    With Albania being in the Balkans, Rita Ora could be part Gypsy.

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  88. Maybe I’ll reconsider my having sided with Darren Wilson. If the police won’t stand with us, why should we stand with them? Next time some white cop is up for an NAACP auto-de-fe ………….. let him burn.

    That is actually a pretty good sentiment. The cops seem to expect our support when it comes to Wilson and others who often find themselves in bad situations with blacks, but routinely dismiss publicly any notion of a deliberate pattern of black-on-white attacks. Clearly they know most of white America is concerned about black crime, and use that concern to help justify their quick triggers. But at the same time they do everything they can to cover it up when it comes to average whites being victimized.

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  89. @sutton
    If only the convenience store/cigar joint Indian had just shot Brown dead .

    Yes. The Indian guy was a responsible store owner. Brown was a worthless thug. And now the lunatics — and this is not hyperbole, they truly are acting like lunatics — are making a hero out him. The really funny thing is, all these goofy white people protesting this are people the Brown person would just as leave have battered out of his way like he did the Indian. They are people many blacks would loved to kill. They have no idea how many whites are murdered by blacks because the media hides it. Whites commit the least interracial crime, white on black almost nil, and yet get blamed by the lunatic media for all of it.
    You can bet, no matter what, when blacks kill or assault white, the “authorities” will declare race had nothing to do with it. Huh? How do you know? Did they tell you that and you believe them because they seem to have such integrity? \
    They could be beating a white, yelling “Kill Whitey” and the media and its minions would still be forced to declare race had nothing to do with it.
    They should be sued out business.

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  90. @eah
    “We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.

    She forgot to add that the attack was "random".

    I see there are no holderesque cowards in the St Louis PD.

    I would guess that, statistically, Whites are significantly more likely to be in 'the wrong place at the wrong time' when they're in a heavily non-white area -- that would seem to take some of the 'randomness' out of it.

    She also forgot to characterize it as a “hammer murder gone wrong”

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  91. @reiner Tor
    There could be some Slovaks in Bosnia, but I doubt there are too many. Actually, I think there's no Slovak diaspora there, only in Serbia and Croatia.

    Bosnia's population is Bosniak (Muslim, the largest ethnicity), Serb (second largest ethnicity), and Croat (third largest ethnicity), but of course there are others. However, only the Muslims use the national flag in the picture, so this guy must have been Muslim. All three ethnicities speak the same language, the main difference is the religion. Serbs and Croats outside Bosnia will probably mostly identify as Serbs and Croats, and not as Bosnians.

    I’m a St Louisan with ties to that region, and I’d say that’s one of the more correct posts that I’ve read here. The Bosniaks identify as Bosnians while the Bosnian Serbs and Croats that I know identify by their ethnicity rather than nationality. They tell me this is because they don’t want to offend Bosniaks or confuse Americans. All 3 groups have a propensity to identify as and call themselves European when possible, probably because even mentioning their ethnic group tends to dredge up history which is mutually unpleasant to all 3 groups.

    Bosniaks sound like an exotic group, but over the past 20 years they’ve for all effective purposes been just another group of Slavic immigrants, which St. Louis has had a lot of over the past 100 years or so. They work hard and they’ve vastly improved the blighted neighborhoods that they have moved into. The Bosnians that I’ve known personally tended to work in trades, and were functionally no different in their life styles from other blue collar St. Louisans. I’d say this truck driver was a pretty typical representative of the community. Based on the ones that I’ve know, the idea that they’re secretly yearning back to the days of the Ottoman Caliphate is completely laughable. The possibility of any sort of retaliation on their part as a community seems highly unlikely to me, also. My general impression is that they’re too busy with their work and family for that.

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  92. @Dave Pinsen
    Rita Ora is a Balkan (nominal) Muslim: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=rita+ora&FORM=HDRSC2#a

    Seems the further you get away from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, the less strict the Muslims are.

    It does suggest Iraq and afghanistan were the wrong places to invade. Pakistan doesn’t have the cash to fund extremism, so that leaves the Saudi peninsula as the next in line for turning to glass.
    I doubt he U.S can afford yet another war, so how about crowd fundng?

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Why turn it into glass? Better to (re) capture the oil fields (which were jointly owned by a US company prior to the Saudis nationalizing them), and pump them at full tilt, with none of the money going to the Saudis.
  93. @Vinny
    Redlining, loan discrimination and predatory mortgages have stripped generations of wealth from the African-American community. What is that if not robbery?

    The Republican Party practices policies of voter suppression. That’s the assault and battery of African-American political rights.

    Mass incarceration criminalizes the very existence of black men and boys. That’s the rape of equal justice.

    Unarmed people are killed by those who are purportedly there to protect and serve them and the “just us” system looks the other way. That’s the murder of basic human rights.

    African Americans have also been long oppressed by what might be called “America on black” crime.

    These young men were fighting back against a system that has continually defecated on them. Unfortunately things went to far. It sucks because these boys will have their futures stolen away. In truth white racism killed Mr. Begic.

    There is no place in the world that offers more opportunities to blacks. They keep coming here of their own accord. There is no white country they’re not chomping at the bit to get into. So don’t try that lame stuff. Blacks have had full legal rights for decades. They are in seats of government at the highest levels. They command school budgets-the one in D.C. spends more per child than any other in the country, and yet the achievement is still among the least. There are just no excuses left, are there? Nothing is ever enough and it’s always someone else who has to do it for them.

    City after city is ruined. A cemetery in Baltimore had a beautiful wrought iron fence around it for a couple miles. For decades it was unmolested, in the white working class neighborhood of Irvington. Then I went back in 2003. The fence looked like gorillas had bent the bars. The cemetery looked descrated by “youths” who use it for god knows what. Now the entire entrance area on Frederick Ave. is shut off because of blacks. Even decent blacks were shocked they could no longer enter through that entrance but had to go round to the still white, and well kept, Wilkins Ave. entrance area.
    Whites don’t flee because somebody’s color bothers them–how ridiculous. The flee for their lives . It hasn’t been our fault for a long time.

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  94. “As the vehicle drove away, one teen jumped on the back and began beating on it. Begic stopped and got out…”

    WTF?

    Memo: if a group of thugs start beating on your car, DO NOT get out. Drive away. Better yet, run over them. If you carry a firearm, that remains an option. If you’re really bold, pull out your cell phone and take video. But do not do not do not get out of your car.

    There is no winning with these people. To them life is cheap.

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  95. Maybe I’ll reconsider my having sided with Darren Wilson. If the police won’t stand with us, why should we stand with them?

    The political element of the police department, such as the police chief and press spokesperson, are always going to be liberal in a liberal city. If you’re white, they won’t be on your side. However, the street cop often hates those people as much as you do, because he knows they’ll hang him out to dry the instant he becomes a political liability while doing his job. That’s what happened to Darren Wilson. Don’t blame the guys like him for the craven behavior of the political appointees they work for.

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  96. @Greenstalk
    “There is no evidence that this was a crime occasioned by the race or ethnicity of the victim,” Mayor Francis Slay declared in a formal statement.

    Has anyone bothered to ask the white people who were with Begic what happened and what was said by whom? I suspect the authorities never manage to find evidence of racism on the part of blacks because they try desperately hard not to know about it.

    Even without statements from Begic's fiancee to the effect that the "yoots" were yelling "Kill the white people", there is at least as much evidence that Begic was killed on account of his race as there was that Brown was. Admittedly that's none, yet the media and the politicians take it as a given that Brown was a victim of racial murder.

    “There is no evidence that this was a crime occasioned by the race or ethnicity of the victim,” Mayor Francis Slay declared in a formal statement.

    The mayor has is ass-backwards. The racial motivation is the default assumption in cases of unprovoked murders by strangers. You need to supply evidence that it wasn’t racially motivated, Mr. Mayor.

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  97. @The Z Blog
    It will be interesting to see if the "Hispanic" is just a black guy named Juan. That's something you see in the news around here. Three black guys get caught and one of them is named Antonio so the press say he is Hispanic.

    I'm thinking that Hispanic will become the utility infielder of race hustling. When the narrative needs less color, bring in the Hispanic! When the narrative needs a white villain, make the Hispanic a white-Hispanic! In short order Hispanics will stop giving their kids Spanish names so they can just be white and be done with it.

    In short order Hispanics will stop giving their kids Spanish names so they can just be white and be done with it.

    Already a trend. Lots of Mexican Leslies in my city. And a very young Jennifer in my neighborhood. For whites, Jennifer Lawrence is way behind the curve. It’s immigrants who keep that overused-and-now-abandoned name in the top 200.

    And don’t forget Evan Longoria, who’s not Eva in drag. He ain’t close to galés.

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  98. @Jefferson
    "It will be interesting to see if the “Hispanic” is just a black guy named Juan. That’s something you see in the news around here. Three black guys get caught and one of them is named Antonio so the press say he is Hispanic.

    I’m thinking that Hispanic will become the utility infielder of race hustling. When the narrative needs less color, bring in the Hispanic! When the narrative needs a white villain, make the Hispanic a white-Hispanic! In short order Hispanics will stop giving their kids Spanish names so they can just be white and be done with it."

    There is a Black guy named Juan who works for The Fox News Channel. He is from Panama, which would make him Hispanic. He is a Black Hispanic/Black Panamanian.

    With Panama's close geographic proximity to the Caribbean, it should not be shocking.

    He is from Panama, which would make him Hispanic. He is a Black Hispanic/Black Panamanian.

    Blacks in Panama and all along the Mosquito Coast tend to speak English. Only in Belize did they get their own country. They’re essentially misplaced Jamaicans. As are Cuba’s remaining cricketers.

    Remember MLB stars Rod Carew and Adolfo Phillips? (BTW, who would name a kid Adolfo in 1941?)

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  99. I don’t believe he was killed because he was white. I believe he was killed because he was not black.

    Ask the family of Hoang Nguyen.

    St Louis is Ground Zero of the knockout game. They’ve been doing it for decades.

    It might not be related to Ferguson. Just a typical fun night out in St Lou. “Clang, clang, clang, went the hammer,” as Judy might have sung.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rusty Shackleford
    Well, as long as we're replaying the St. Louis oldies, I could mention Matt Quain. Mayor Slay actually witnessed that particular round of the knockout game. I don't remember whether he immediately declared that it wasn't racially motivated or not, but then I can't remember a case where it ever has been. In all fairness, it's not like the youths involved would have any ideological objections to attacking other black people. People on these forums seem to believe that these attackers have some sort of rational if malevolent goal or objective with these attacks. I don't think they fully realize what a degraded culture it is or exactly the sort of character it produces.
  100. “Blacks in Panama and all along the Mosquito Coast tend to speak English”

    The vast majority of Blacks in Panama are fluent in Spanish. Panama participated in the Sub Saharan African slave trade.

    Here are videos of Black Panamanians speaking Spanish.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-eehf4BZmk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_hkBb24CH0

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  101. @Russell
    It does suggest Iraq and afghanistan were the wrong places to invade. Pakistan doesn't have the cash to fund extremism, so that leaves the Saudi peninsula as the next in line for turning to glass.
    I doubt he U.S can afford yet another war, so how about crowd fundng?

    Why turn it into glass? Better to (re) capture the oil fields (which were jointly owned by a US company prior to the Saudis nationalizing them), and pump them at full tilt, with none of the money going to the Saudis.

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  102. @Reg Cæsar
    I don't believe he was killed because he was white. I believe he was killed because he was not black.

    Ask the family of Hoang Nguyen.

    St Louis is Ground Zero of the knockout game. They've been doing it for decades.

    It might not be related to Ferguson. Just a typical fun night out in St Lou. "Clang, clang, clang, went the hammer," as Judy might have sung.

    Well, as long as we’re replaying the St. Louis oldies, I could mention Matt Quain. Mayor Slay actually witnessed that particular round of the knockout game. I don’t remember whether he immediately declared that it wasn’t racially motivated or not, but then I can’t remember a case where it ever has been. In all fairness, it’s not like the youths involved would have any ideological objections to attacking other black people. People on these forums seem to believe that these attackers have some sort of rational if malevolent goal or objective with these attacks. I don’t think they fully realize what a degraded culture it is or exactly the sort of character it produces.

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  103. “Harry Baldwin says:

    The political element of the police department, such as the police chief and press spokesperson, are always going to be liberal in a liberal city. If you’re white, they won’t be on your side. However, the street cop often hates those people as much as you do, because he knows they’ll hang him out to dry the instant he becomes a political liability while doing his job. That’s what happened to Darren Wilson. Don’t blame the guys like him for the craven behavior of the political appointees they work for.”

    I understand what you are saying, and recognize that there is truth in it. But that is too easy an excuse for line officers. You wear the uniform, you share the blame. Why don’t they – as a group (through their union, for example) place pressure on the chiefs – pressure to start recognizing some of the realities of modern America. Whether the individual cop likes it or not, he is a representative of the whole department. And if that department is going to take the attitude “screw you, whitey”, then why should I offer any support to them?

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  104. @Whiskey
    I can't speak to the family of the victims. But I think it is a straight dead certainty that if the "King's Justice" is not served people will eventually go back to their own private vendettas. The killers are known. They have families. Retaliation against said by feud is as old as the Capulets and Montagues, certainly older than Hatfields and McCoys. Its not as if American history is not strewn with outside the law actions for vengeance.

    Look at the Vigilance Committes in San Francisco. Steve the idea that communal vengeance is clan based does not find support in American vigilante action throughout our history. The Regulators in Pre-Revolutionary Carolinas, the Vigilance Committees, the Draft Riots, all would say that yes, targets of revenge can be found when impartial (for the most part), disinterested justice is tossed out.

    All Ferguson all the time is Obama's weapon against Hillary. Just as Bill Clinton found some against Al Gore (but failed -- Gore being a lifeless bore found plenty of allies who hated Clinton for "pandering" to White Middle and Working Class voters).

    This is a clash of forces. Obama and his urban-Black/SJW wing of the Democratic Party want to crush Hillary for Al Sharpton or Adrian Fenty or Cory Booker. Whoever Obama is backing now that bestest pal Deval Patrick has declined. Straight up against someone inevitably taking revenge when justice cannot be found. Its as predictable as American History.

    To quote George Costanza, “there are no laws in this place. Anything goes. It’s Thunderdome!”

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  105. ““We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.”

    Another tragic case of a vicious unprovoked murder gone bad.

    No kidding. The “wrong place wrong time” meme is wearing pretty thin. Of course it makes no sense, but not just that, who do they think they are fooling? it is stupid saying that might have meant something once, maybe, in Chicago, in 1930.

    “Fatal hammer attack on Bosnian immigrant not racially motivated, St. Louis police say.”

    Maybe I’ll reconsider my having sided with Darren Wilson. If the police won’t stand with us, why should we stand with them?

    Agreed. But of course within the police are both the guys on the street, and also its institutional face and media reps.

    **************
    I do not know any Bosniaks; people from the Balkans are well known to hold grudges and act on them. But is that characteristic tied up with them living there (and fighting for their lands)? Is a Bosniak a Bosniak if he lives in St Louis?

    (And white Americans, are they white Americans if they are not fighting for their lands? That question is rhetorical; the answer is no.)

    There is something in the struggle for identity that is a catch 22. A catch 22 is (of course) a difficult concept. A catch 22 is a model that contains contradiction, but which contradiction is part of it.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    In the southeast San Fernando Valley, the ongoing influx of Eastern Europeans/West Asians is is helpful in forming buffer zones in the middle of the Valley to keep out lower class people from the northeast Valley. These clannish Caucasians have zero White Guilt and are tough customers, so they've been taking over real estate in the middle Valley. On the other hand, they aren't the friendliest of folks. My wife's nephew played on a couple of pick-up soccer teams here. The Mexican team was friendly and called him "Hollywood" for his blond good looks and mostly spoke English when he was around. The Russian team called him "Hey You" and otherwise spoke in Russian to each other when he was around.
  106. Re: Bosniaks

    Why are they even here in the first place? They apparently came as ‘refugees’. Why? Weren’t the Bosniaks on the winning side? I can see when a vanquished group, like the South Vietnamese, seek refuge in the USA. But the Bosniaks ended up winning and keeping their nation. So why do we have so many refugees? You’d think even if they fled during the conflict, they’d return now that their side is safely ensconced in Bosnia. Also, given the demographics of Bosnia, you’d think they’d want all the Bosniaks they can get to keep ahead of the Serbs and Croats.

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  107. @Jefferson
    "Going to a bar on a Saturday night with your wife and a couple of friends sounds pretty St. Louisy to me."

    Mexicans also like to go to a bar on Saturday night and get wasted. And how well is that assimilation thing working out for Mexicans in your hometown of Los Angeles ? Are most Mexicans in Los Angeles culturally American as apple pie ? Those same Mexicans in the U.S who love going to bars on Saturday nights are the ones booing the U.S national soccer team whenever they play Mexico.

    Any people who do this are more assimilated into the American way of life than many (not all) SWPLs are.

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  108. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Trayvon Zimmerman
    The R, W, and F words? I assume R is for race, and W is for white, but I'm lost on the last one. For that matter, I could be wrong about the other two.

    Ferguson

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  109. “Any people who do this are more assimilated into the American way of life than many (not all) SWPLs are.”

    Since you are so-pro Mexican, you must have been extremely happy with Hussein Obama passing amnesty because he is helping create more future assimilated patriotic Americans in your eyes.

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    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    Only if they assimilate into a recognizably American culture. West Coast hipsters, feminists, SWPLs, etc. don't want to maintain a recognizably American culture. On the other hand, Texans - outside of certain Austin neighborhoods packed with Californians - still seek to maintain a recognizably American culture. The choice is between who wants to preserve American culture on one hand and who wants to either let it die or actively kill it on the other hand.
  110. @Suburban_elk

    ““We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.”

    Another tragic case of a vicious unprovoked murder gone bad.
     

    No kidding. The "wrong place wrong time" meme is wearing pretty thin. Of course it makes no sense, but not just that, who do they think they are fooling? it is stupid saying that might have meant something once, maybe, in Chicago, in 1930.

    “Fatal hammer attack on Bosnian immigrant not racially motivated, St. Louis police say.”

    Maybe I’ll reconsider my having sided with Darren Wilson. If the police won’t stand with us, why should we stand with them?
     

    Agreed. But of course within the police are both the guys on the street, and also its institutional face and media reps.

    **************
    I do not know any Bosniaks; people from the Balkans are well known to hold grudges and act on them. But is that characteristic tied up with them living there (and fighting for their lands)? Is a Bosniak a Bosniak if he lives in St Louis?

    (And white Americans, are they white Americans if they are not fighting for their lands? That question is rhetorical; the answer is no.)

    There is something in the struggle for identity that is a catch 22. A catch 22 is (of course) a difficult concept. A catch 22 is a model that contains contradiction, but which contradiction is part of it.

    In the southeast San Fernando Valley, the ongoing influx of Eastern Europeans/West Asians is is helpful in forming buffer zones in the middle of the Valley to keep out lower class people from the northeast Valley. These clannish Caucasians have zero White Guilt and are tough customers, so they’ve been taking over real estate in the middle Valley. On the other hand, they aren’t the friendliest of folks. My wife’s nephew played on a couple of pick-up soccer teams here. The Mexican team was friendly and called him “Hollywood” for his blond good looks and mostly spoke English when he was around. The Russian team called him “Hey You” and otherwise spoke in Russian to each other when he was around.

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  111. @Jefferson
    "Any people who do this are more assimilated into the American way of life than many (not all) SWPLs are."

    Since you are so-pro Mexican, you must have been extremely happy with Hussein Obama passing amnesty because he is helping create more future assimilated patriotic Americans in your eyes.

    Only if they assimilate into a recognizably American culture. West Coast hipsters, feminists, SWPLs, etc. don’t want to maintain a recognizably American culture. On the other hand, Texans – outside of certain Austin neighborhoods packed with Californians – still seek to maintain a recognizably American culture. The choice is between who wants to preserve American culture on one hand and who wants to either let it die or actively kill it on the other hand.

    Read More
  112. I do not know any Bosniaks; people from the Balkans are well known to hold grudges and act on them. But is that characteristic tied up with them living there (and fighting for their lands)? Is a Bosniak a Bosniak if he lives in St Louis?

    You mean do Bosniaks living in St. Louis hold grudges against Serbs and Croats and vice-versa? I know that they don’t go out of their way to socialize with one another. We’ve had sizable numbers of Bosniaks in St. Louis for 20 years, though, and I’ve met plenty of Serbs, Croats and Albanians also. I’ve never heard of any serious friction between the groups. Publicly they tend to speak about one another in conciliatory if not friendly terms. If you’re suggesting that the Bosniaks are going to track down the families of the teenagers who did this, I doubt it.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    There's a common pattern of arch-enemies in the Old Country living in the same neighborhoods in America: Ethiopians and Eritreans in Uptown, Chicago, for instance. They shop at the same ethnic grocery stores.
    , @Hare Krishna
    There has been tension between Serbs and Croats in the US, but I've never heard of any tensions involving Bosniaks.
  113. @Rusty Shackleford


    I do not know any Bosniaks; people from the Balkans are well known to hold grudges and act on them. But is that characteristic tied up with them living there (and fighting for their lands)? Is a Bosniak a Bosniak if he lives in St Louis?
     
    You mean do Bosniaks living in St. Louis hold grudges against Serbs and Croats and vice-versa? I know that they don't go out of their way to socialize with one another. We've had sizable numbers of Bosniaks in St. Louis for 20 years, though, and I've met plenty of Serbs, Croats and Albanians also. I've never heard of any serious friction between the groups. Publicly they tend to speak about one another in conciliatory if not friendly terms. If you're suggesting that the Bosniaks are going to track down the families of the teenagers who did this, I doubt it.

    There’s a common pattern of arch-enemies in the Old Country living in the same neighborhoods in America: Ethiopians and Eritreans in Uptown, Chicago, for instance. They shop at the same ethnic grocery stores.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    Or, in the early 20th century, Ashkenazim and Poles, in New York City's Lower East Side and Williamsburg.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    There’s a common pattern of arch-enemies in the Old Country living in the same neighborhoods in America: Ethiopians and Eritreans in Uptown, Chicago, for instance. They shop at the same ethnic grocery stores.

     

    Ethiopians in the Twin Cities live alongside their old-country victims-- excuse me, neighbors-- the Eritreans, the Oromo, and the Somalis. And that's just in my apartment complex! There were some "Ethiopia out of Somalia" stickers a while ago, but the Ethios let them be, just as WASPs do with the many Irish nationalist stickers you see around here.

    I did read of a young white couple's walking unmolested through an Ethiopian-Somali stickfight near the "Crack Stacks" on the West Bank near the U. That about sums it up: they ignore us, and we ignore them.

    , @reiner Tor
    Albanians and Serbs and Croats being on relatively friendly terms while living in Western Europe: happens all the time. They speak the same language (Albanians don't, but usually they can speak at least some Serbo-Croatian themselves, at least the ones from Kosovo and Macedonia), and the Western European natives lump them all together as Balkans people, so why hold grudges from the old country against each other?
  114. “Only if they assimilate into a recognizably American culture. West Coast hipsters, feminists, SWPLs, etc. don’t want to maintain a recognizably American culture.”

    Most Mexicans in the U.S speak do not even speak English at home. You call that wanting to maintain a recognizably American culture ?

    “On the other hand, Texans – outside of certain Austin neighborhoods packed with Californians – still seek to maintain a recognizably American culture. The choice is between who wants to preserve American culture on one hand and who wants to either let it die or actively kill it on the other hand.”

    Most Mexicans in Texas are not culturally American as apple pie. In El Paso for example, a whopping 74 percent of the population prefer to speak Spanish over English at home. Is that your definition of maintaining a recognizably American culture ?

    http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_10533937

    The more south you go in Texas the less English you hear being spoken. You hear more English being spoken in Sweden than you do in South Texas. Almost 90 percent of Swedes are fluent in English.

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  115. @Steve Sailer
    There's a common pattern of arch-enemies in the Old Country living in the same neighborhoods in America: Ethiopians and Eritreans in Uptown, Chicago, for instance. They shop at the same ethnic grocery stores.

    Or, in the early 20th century, Ashkenazim and Poles, in New York City’s Lower East Side and Williamsburg.

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  116. “If you’re suggesting that the Bosniaks are going to track down the families of the teenagers who did this, I doubt it.”

    The toughness of the average Bosnian is over exaggerated here on The Unz. The majority of Bosnians would shit their pants if you dropped them off in some of America’s most dangerous African American housing projects.

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  117. @Rusty Shackleford


    I do not know any Bosniaks; people from the Balkans are well known to hold grudges and act on them. But is that characteristic tied up with them living there (and fighting for their lands)? Is a Bosniak a Bosniak if he lives in St Louis?
     
    You mean do Bosniaks living in St. Louis hold grudges against Serbs and Croats and vice-versa? I know that they don't go out of their way to socialize with one another. We've had sizable numbers of Bosniaks in St. Louis for 20 years, though, and I've met plenty of Serbs, Croats and Albanians also. I've never heard of any serious friction between the groups. Publicly they tend to speak about one another in conciliatory if not friendly terms. If you're suggesting that the Bosniaks are going to track down the families of the teenagers who did this, I doubt it.

    There has been tension between Serbs and Croats in the US, but I’ve never heard of any tensions involving Bosniaks.

    Read More
  118. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    “chomping at the bit”

    Sorry, pet peeve, but it is “champing at the bit”, champing and chomping being entirely different words.

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  119. The toughness of the average Bosnian is over exaggerated here on The Unz. The majority of Bosnians would shit their pants if you dropped them off in some of America’s most dangerous African American housing projects.

    The toughest Bosniaks are still in Bosnia. They were the ones who stood and fought. The ones in St. Louis fled despite their side having won. If the ones in St. Louis had the fire in their bellies to get some Balkan retribution, they probably would have never fled in the first place.

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  120. @iSteveFan
    “We think it was wrong place, wrong time,” police spokeswoman Schron Jackson said.

    The wrong place, wrong time excuse seems to come up a lot with a certain segment of our population.

    Detectives do not believe the attackers took anything but Begic’s life.. …

    Then we can rule out robbery I suppose. But what is the evidence to dismiss the hate crime aspect?

    The Bosnian flag looks like the Quebec flag with the blue and white and fleur de lis.

    I saw that too. Apparently the Kings of Bosnia used to use the Fleur-de-lis before they were conquered by the Ottomans. Later they were used again from 1992-1998 on the Bosnian coat of arms. But since 1998, the Fleur-de-lis has not been used. I wonder why these folks are still displaying them?

    “But since 1998, the Fleur-de-lis has not been used. I wonder why these folks are still displaying them?”

    Given the sheer ugliness of the newer flag (which, as your link notes, was designed by the UN High Representative after the Bosnian Parliament could not or would not find a design acceptable to all 3 ethnic factions), I do not find it surprising that many decided to simply hold on to the version they had.

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  121. @Steve Sailer
    There's a common pattern of arch-enemies in the Old Country living in the same neighborhoods in America: Ethiopians and Eritreans in Uptown, Chicago, for instance. They shop at the same ethnic grocery stores.

    There’s a common pattern of arch-enemies in the Old Country living in the same neighborhoods in America: Ethiopians and Eritreans in Uptown, Chicago, for instance. They shop at the same ethnic grocery stores.

    Ethiopians in the Twin Cities live alongside their old-country victims– excuse me, neighbors– the Eritreans, the Oromo, and the Somalis. And that’s just in my apartment complex! There were some “Ethiopia out of Somalia” stickers a while ago, but the Ethios let them be, just as WASPs do with the many Irish nationalist stickers you see around here.

    I did read of a young white couple’s walking unmolested through an Ethiopian-Somali stickfight near the “Crack Stacks” on the West Bank near the U. That about sums it up: they ignore us, and we ignore them.

    Read More
  122. @Steve Sailer
    There's a common pattern of arch-enemies in the Old Country living in the same neighborhoods in America: Ethiopians and Eritreans in Uptown, Chicago, for instance. They shop at the same ethnic grocery stores.

    Albanians and Serbs and Croats being on relatively friendly terms while living in Western Europe: happens all the time. They speak the same language (Albanians don’t, but usually they can speak at least some Serbo-Croatian themselves, at least the ones from Kosovo and Macedonia), and the Western European natives lump them all together as Balkans people, so why hold grudges from the old country against each other?

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  123. Speaking of Bosniak refugees, if they did feel they had to leave, even though their side ended up winning, why come to the USA? Wouldn’t it had been easier and better for them to just go to Turkey? It’s much closer and is a sort of ‘motherland’ anyway to Balkan muslims.

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  124. Keep in mind that “Bosnians” are Muslims who generally sympathize with the Islamic conquest of Europe. To them, The Ottoman Empire were the good guys and Arab culture is superior to Western culture. If you don’t believe me, go on Youtube and see the constant stream of pro-Al-Qaeda, pro Islamic conquest comments on controversial videos from US/Western Europe based accounts with names like “Bosnian4Lyfe” and “AlbanianPlaya420.”

    In Europe, nationalists have no sympathy at all for Bosnians and Albanians and couldn’t care less what happens to them. Support for a Serbian reconquista of Bosnia and Kosovo is a popular cause on the “far right” over there. “Kosovo is Serbia” is a chant and banner often found at soccer games in Western Europe.

    BTW, no non-Muslim would ever identify as “Bosnian.” Whoever suggested that is ludicrously ignorant.

    “You will NEVER get Bosnian Muslims in the U.S to identify with Mayflower descendent Anglo Saxon Protestants. A Bosnian Muslim will see a Pakistani Muslim as his or her brother or sister before they would a WASP.

    To Bosnians, loyalty to Islam trumps loyalty to Whiteness.”

    Exactly. I’m reluctant to sympathize with these people if they won’t publicly identify as white.

    Note that the Lebanese Muslims in Australia who are notorious for racially motivated beatings and gang rapes of Anglo-Celtic Australians drink in bars a lot too. They control the nightclub industry in Sydney, which gives them lots of opportunities for sex with infidel white women.

    As far as whiteness goes, when I was growing up in NYC, I had mulato Hispanic friends who would say stuff like “us white guys gotta be careful around here” when we were passing though a black ghetto area.

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