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South Africa's Zuma Emulates Zimbabwe's Mugabe
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From the Telegraph:

Jacob Zuma calls for confiscation of white land without compensation

Stuart Graham, Johannesburg
3 MARCH 2017 • 8:24PM

President Jacob Zuma has called on parliament to change South Africa’s constitution to allow the expropriation of white owned land without compensation.

Mr Zuma, 74, who made the remarks in a speech yesterday/FRI morning, said he wanted to establish a “pre-colonial land audit of land use and occupation patterns” before changing the law.

“We need to accept the reality that those who are in parliament where laws are made, particularly the black parties, should unite because we need a two-thirds majority to effect changes in the constitution,” he said.

Mr Zuma, who has lurched from one scandal to another since being elected to office in 2009, has adopted a more populist tone since his ruling African National Congress (ANC) party suffered its worst election result last August since the end of apartheid in 1994. …

Remember that funny video I posted of a riot by red-shirted South African members of parliament?

Zuma didn’t think it was amusing. He’s decided to co-opt the redshirts’ platform:

The ANC is also under pressure from the radical Economic Freedom Fighters, led by Julius Malema.

Mr Malema has been travelling the country urging black South Africans to take back land from white invaders and “Dutch thugs”.

He told parliament this week that his party wanted to “unite black people in South Africa” to expropriate land without compensation.

“People of South Africa, where you see a beautiful land, take it, it belongs to you,” he said.

Next door in Zimbabwe, Robert Mugabe launched a similar strategy in 2000 of egging on his supporters to Occupy white-owned farms.

 

Now, you might think this was not a wise policy, what with the subsequent inflation and the government of Zimbabwe having to print up 100,00,000,000,000 dollar bills.

But, from the perspective of the now 93-year-old Mugabe, it’s now 17 years later and he is still President of Zimbabwe.

Are you president of a country?

I didn’t think so.

When you are in your 38th year in power, Mr. Mugabe will be happy to listen to your advice. Until then …

Now that I think about it, this development in South Africa might help explain why the Pundit Class (e.g., Richard Cohen of the NYT) has been so berserk over the global growth of populism. The populists in America aren’t actually going to come for the bankers and diamond merchants with pitchforks and flaming tires.

But the populists someday might in South Africa. (Of course, initially they’ll come for Boer farmers.)

South Africa’s role in world history is a rather curious one. It’s immense inequality meant that it generated a surplus of wealth that could be directed to influence politics in imperial capitals.

For example, Georgetown professor Carroll Quigley was convinced that the proteges of Cecil Rhodes, such as Alfred Milner, had conspired to exercise an outsized role in British politics into the 1930s. One of Quigley’s more outlandish assertions is that the Milner conservative cabal had controlled the Encyclopedia Britannica, which you could tell by looking at the entries for its members. I looked up the entry in the 1971 edition for Rhodes’ Joshua, Colonel Leander Jameson, and, yeah, it read like Quigley wasn’t crazy.

J.A. Hobson and V.I. Lenin wrote their separate books Imperialism inspired by South Africa.

William Manchester’s vivid biography of Winston Churchill includes a chapter on Winston living large in the late 1930s at his country estate of Chartwell.

But … how could Churchill afford that on his journalistic earnings?

The short answer is Churchill couldn’t afford his spendaholic lifestyle. He was on the verge of having to sell Chartwell in 1938 to avoid bankruptcy when Austrian-born South African zillionaire Sir Henry Strakosch, the chairman of The Economist, secretly bailed Churchill out so he could concentrate on fighting appeasement of Hitler.

South Africa is an oddly influential place.

 
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  1. Now, you might think this was not a wise policy, what with the subsequent inflation and the government of Zimbabwe having to print up 100,00,000,000,000 dollar bills.

    Mugabe must be glad the Arabs introduced the zero to Africa. Where would he be without it?

    Read More
    • LOL: The Z Blog
    • Replies: @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    When did Arab, what? A sidebar: Saladin was a Kurd and al-Khwarizmi was a Persian. Also, zero wasn't discovered anywhere near an oasis!
    , @Neoconned
    I have an attractive 40ish white South Africanfemale friend I'm try in to talk into marrying me ins exchange for citizenship.

    She told me she might just do it.....she sounds like a museum curator. Polished and refined.....

    I may have hit the jackpot.
    , @IBC
    I thought Professor Gates said that zero was an African invention? That'd make sense, because for leaders like Robert Mugabe, zero is obviously more than just a number; it's a symbol of achievement.
    , @Eagle Eye
    There are reports of black Zimbabweans yearning for the peaceful, prosperous days under Ian Smith's apartheid regime.
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  2. The election of Emperor Trump and the elite hysteria over it in 5 words and 8 syllables:

    Goys no longer Eloi….oy!!

    Read More
  3. One of the potential benefits of Trump is a reduction in foreign aid. It might feel good to say we are spending billions on 3rd world backwaters (ignoring our aid to Israel of course), but it does no good at all. If South Africa, Zimbabwe, etc. wants to have runaway levels of population growth coupled with thuggish government that can’t devise a way for the country to feed itself or provide decent medical care, I saw let nature take its course. It’s better for the entire planet in the long run.

    Read More
    • Agree: BB753, Kylie
    • LOL: Clyde
    • Replies: @Rob McX
    Unfortunately, this is probably what's coming down the line: blacks grab white land and resources in SA, fail to exploit them and run them into the ground. Next, the country gets even poorer and more violent as Africans compete for the ever-dwindling resources left behind after the mass dispossession of whites. Then more and more of them join the mass exodus to Europe as a last attempt to avoid starvation or being killed. Short version: Whitey always has to pay in the end.

    Of course foreign aid should be cut off, but first white countries need to close the "send us aid or we'll come to your country" blackmail loophole.

    , @Lot
    Foreign aid is a drop in the bucket for African economies, which are dominated by agricultural and resource extraction. The long natural resource boom that began in the late 1990s has led to continuous and high levels of economic growth in Africa, which has been used for the most part to support higher populations. Cheap Asian manufactured goods and cell phone tech has also led to large improvements in living standards even with higher populations.

    The gradual diffusion of Western ag tech plus the end of US and USSR funded proxy wars has also improved African economies.

    While we should end aid to Africa, its impact will be negligible. The image some have of Africans living near starvation from 80s Ethiopia and 90s Somalia is just not accurate for 95% of SSA. Islam's border in Africa, like it is everywhere, is bloody, and Congo is still dysfunctional, but otherwise Africa is more peaceful now than in the past 50 years.
    , @Paul Jolliffe
    U.S. foreign aid to African nations mostly winds up in the pockets of the kleptocrats, enriching the dictators and making it harder for the ordinary people to break the cycle.

    So, it's not merely better for the planet in the long run, but for the ordinary people themselves - whatever chance they might have to re-invent their societies would be improved if the U.S. would stop giving money to the thugs who run their countries.

    But U.S. foreign aid also comes at the expense of the U.S. taxpayer, and the decision-makers in the world know that without our money, 3rd World foreign governments would default on their loans to institutions like the I.M.F. and the World Bank.

    And those institutions have to be repaid, dontcha know, because the Very Important People have to have their (our) money.

    https://youtu.be/5VgfE0QYhF0
    , @Warchylde
    Just a thought, have you considered that the aid money they get is used to buy votes. If that dries up the only way to get the votes is by....... think about that for a second.
  4. “We see honourable members using their hands to harm others.”

    Ah, to be honourable in South Africa’s parliament….

    I like to imagine a similar commentary from the chair for our federal legislature; sadly, the senate was not in session during the most notorious analogue, but we do have unofficial records.

    Can it all mean that South Africa, too, is now headed for civil war? No; that sort of thing never happens in honourable Africa.

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  5. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Churchill gave up the British Empire in order to help Uncle Joe Stalin save his.

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  6. Obama’s fantasy is to rise back to power and confiscate white American property.

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  7. I would give American citizenship to every white South African who wanted it.

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    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe

    I would give American citizenship to every white South African who wanted it.

     

    This blog notes some tweets likening Charles Murray to Hitler, but it seems to me that this Zuma dude is a lot more like Hitler.

    What does it take to be considered a persecuted minority?

    Surely white South Africans are a persecuted minority. I would sponsor a family to come to the USA
    , @Harry Baldwin
    The several white South African immigrants I've met are all liberals.
    , @iffen
    I would give American citizenship to every white South African who wanted it.

    How about if we give American citizenship to every black South African who wants it.

    The white South Africans would be a majority then.

    It's a win, win, win.

    The third win would be for the non-South Africans who could then continue the current legal and illegal immigration into SA. Only they would be in much greater demand because of the demographic vacuum created by black South African emigration to the US.

    Actually that should be win, win, win, win.

    I forgot to count the win for the US.

  8. (((Strakosch))) the money power behind a dissolute WASP politician, to cynically manipulate the host country – really?? It’s almost like these horrible stereotypes handed down over the centuries are true!

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  9. The Afrikaaners have already come out and said this would be a declaration of war and would recognize no such edict.

    I believe them. Zuma better tread carefully. They are not dealing with elderly white farmers like Mugabe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SFG
    Seriously, is there any hope of them staking out a small part of South Africa and making a new country there?
  10. My wife gave me David Lough’s No More Champagne: Churchill and His Money a couple of Christmases ago. A financial biography of Winston Churchill doesn’t sound completely fascinating, but it certainly is.

    Read More
  11. @Arclight
    One of the potential benefits of Trump is a reduction in foreign aid. It might feel good to say we are spending billions on 3rd world backwaters (ignoring our aid to Israel of course), but it does no good at all. If South Africa, Zimbabwe, etc. wants to have runaway levels of population growth coupled with thuggish government that can't devise a way for the country to feed itself or provide decent medical care, I saw let nature take its course. It's better for the entire planet in the long run.

    Unfortunately, this is probably what’s coming down the line: blacks grab white land and resources in SA, fail to exploit them and run them into the ground. Next, the country gets even poorer and more violent as Africans compete for the ever-dwindling resources left behind after the mass dispossession of whites. Then more and more of them join the mass exodus to Europe as a last attempt to avoid starvation or being killed. Short version: Whitey always has to pay in the end.

    Of course foreign aid should be cut off, but first white countries need to close the “send us aid or we’ll come to your country” blackmail loophole.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Arclight
    Absolutely - this is all dependent on Western nations having the willpower to say "no" to more refugees. Make them stay in their sandbox, or at least their own continent. There is no reason we should have to live with the consequences of their dysfunction.
    , @SFG
    Right. It boils down to immigration restriction (which everyone supports here for 40 other reasons).
    , @Corvinus
    Of course, Zuma's proposal is foolish and illegal. But let's honestly look at why he is making this play by breaking down your statement.

    "Unfortunately, this is probably what’s coming down the line: blacks grab white land and resources in SA, fail to exploit them and run them into the ground."

    Well, white Europeans had been responsible for the conditions of blacks in South Africa, having invaded their land, taking control of the resources, and imposing Apartheid. Although, to be fair, Whitey did provide the Darkies with roads and indoor plumbing--you know, "civilization"--so I suppose the Darkies ought not be too upset when they were violently taken over.

    "Next, the country gets even poorer and more violent as Africans compete for the ever-dwindling resources left behind after the mass dispossession of whites."

    Well, there had been rival tribal groups who vied for control of South Africa before the Europeans came. Then the Europeans kept these groups from gaining political power, so those groups worked together toward a common cause. Now, those same factions are at it again, supposedly looking out for the interests of the nation.

    "Then more and more of them join the mass exodus to Europe as a last attempt to avoid starvation or being killed. Short version: Whitey always has to pay in the end."

    Indeed, what a shame. The toll on Whitey is immense. What I think should happen is that white people, since they invaded the country, should leave to avoid future problems. It's not their homeland...Europe is. Whitey should be repatriated or deported. Hey, don't blame me, I'm just using the same argument being made by some on the Alt-Right who call for non-whites, legal or illegal, to voluntarily vamoose because they are not "true" Americans. Propositional nation, what a farce!

    , @Joe Schmoe


    Of course foreign aid should be cut off, but first white countries need to close the “send us aid or we’ll come to your country” blackmail loophole.
     
    Well, call me a bleeding heart liberal, but I think that we should continue to send aid, however in only one form, birth control products. No food, no money. Only birth control.
  12. This is just a desperation move by Zuma. The ANC was *crushed* during the last local election. Even black South Africans are tired of the incompetence and corruption of the ANC, especially under Zuma. There is panic in the ANC, because “the unthinkable” is now possible – ANC’s national loss (and loss of the presidency).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Twinkie, When I hear about Zuma and SA and Mugbe and Zimbabwe I think of the movie "District 9", and both countries are an alien invasion away from living that scenario.
    , @Barnard
    If this is a desperation move by Zuma isn't that a sign the group that takes the ANC's place will be even worse? Where does this leave the white farmers? Trump should setup a refugee program for them.
    , @eD
    Wikipedia page on the last South African local elections:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_municipal_elections,_2016

    Agree this is a desperation move by the ANC. It is in danger of being implemented only if they wind up in a coalition with the Economic Freedom Fighters after the next national elections. Even then, South Africa has a bill of rights and an independent judiciary.
    , @George
    From google searches, Zuma does not seem to have the ANC rank and file on board, the caucus. Unlike the Zimbabwean Military, the SA military lives a fairly posh lifestyle that cannot be supported by subsistence farming. IMO, A black captain in the SA military has reliable water, sewer and electricity, and is willing to gun down any mob of people who plan to endanger that. Oddly the primary complaint of ordinary SA blacks is open borders importing Zimbabweans. SA blacks don't want SA turning into Zimbabwe.
  13. the global growth of populism

    Someone suggested to me this theory about the cause of this growth:

    The smart phone revolution brought some new people to the Internet a few years ago. In developed countries these tended to be older people. Everyone else had already been conncted to the Internet before then. Populist parties’ electorates are older and more downscale than voters in general. When a person switches from getting their news from TV to getting it from the Internet, he moves away from the mainstream.

    According to this theory the thing that tipped the scales in America might have been a certain number of older white voters switching from Fox News to something a bit less tame on the Internet. Drudge, Breitbart, maybe other sites I’m not aware of.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    I, along with Hillary Clinton and the Dinosaur Media, blame the internet. But internet phones? Aren't they like 10 years old? Why did they make the difference now, instead of earlier?

    I guess global, populist, anti-mainstream movements can be slow going. I think the refugee crisis and particularly personalities like Trump had a lot more to do with it. Plus, the global elite is getting stupider and more obvious.

    , @Otto von Palindrome
    The demographics of National Front (Le Pen) voters in France is polar opposite age-wise from Trump supporters. NF is #1 party for each age cohort under 65 with the youngest age cohorts supporting her most. Only the pensioner age brackets don't favor the National Front. I am mystified by this frankly given demographics etc.
  14. Steve if you really believed the media and others hate populism because they are afraid of black people killing Boers, I would question whether you’ve been paying attention for the last 20 years or so. As you’ve said yourself here, its about who/whom and the Boers have been consigned to destruction for at least 25 years, in no small part by Bush the Elder

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  15. Mr Zuma, 74, who made the remarks in a speech yesterday/FRI morning, said he wanted to establish a “pre-colonial land audit of land use and occupation patterns” before changing the law.

    He spoke in English? in a political speech? about law?

    Is he white or black? Does he live in Europe or Africa?

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  16. @Rob McX
    Unfortunately, this is probably what's coming down the line: blacks grab white land and resources in SA, fail to exploit them and run them into the ground. Next, the country gets even poorer and more violent as Africans compete for the ever-dwindling resources left behind after the mass dispossession of whites. Then more and more of them join the mass exodus to Europe as a last attempt to avoid starvation or being killed. Short version: Whitey always has to pay in the end.

    Of course foreign aid should be cut off, but first white countries need to close the "send us aid or we'll come to your country" blackmail loophole.

    Absolutely – this is all dependent on Western nations having the willpower to say “no” to more refugees. Make them stay in their sandbox, or at least their own continent. There is no reason we should have to live with the consequences of their dysfunction.

    Read More
  17. To be fair, Zimbabwe was far more dependant on it’s agriculture than South Africa ever was and South Africa still has large numbers of urban whites whereas Zim basically had none by the time Mugabe started his ‘land reforms’.

    It’d basically take an armed coup to remove the roadblocks that whites and coloureds present to Zim-style despotism. The EFF has a long way to go yet before they can pull that off.

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  18. A friend dated a white South African and was introduced to a circle of highly accomplished ex-patriots. He came up with a theory that being brought up with the assumption they were going to be ordering the blacks around led to them being take-charge types. The English upper class works the same way in his theory. Sounds as plausible to me as a lot of social psychology

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  19. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Whites built ‘South Africa’. It was only after it was glaringly more prosperous than the pestholes around it that blacks established, that blacks started pouring in and became numerically dominant, and started turning it into a pesthole. The tale of South Africa is really a warning of the consequences of accepting third world immigration.

    Europe and the US could have learned an important lesson, but both seem damned to learn the hard way.

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  20. @Rob McX
    Unfortunately, this is probably what's coming down the line: blacks grab white land and resources in SA, fail to exploit them and run them into the ground. Next, the country gets even poorer and more violent as Africans compete for the ever-dwindling resources left behind after the mass dispossession of whites. Then more and more of them join the mass exodus to Europe as a last attempt to avoid starvation or being killed. Short version: Whitey always has to pay in the end.

    Of course foreign aid should be cut off, but first white countries need to close the "send us aid or we'll come to your country" blackmail loophole.

    Right. It boils down to immigration restriction (which everyone supports here for 40 other reasons).

    Read More
  21. @Ed
    The Afrikaaners have already come out and said this would be a declaration of war and would recognize no such edict.

    I believe them. Zuma better tread carefully. They are not dealing with elderly white farmers like Mugabe.

    Seriously, is there any hope of them staking out a small part of South Africa and making a new country there?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe

    Seriously, is there any hope of them staking out a small part of South Africa and making a new country there?
     
    Yes, there is some hope. Because now that Trump is President, we wouldn't intervene to prevent them from doing so.
    , @dfordoom

    Seriously, is there any hope of them staking out a small part of South Africa and making a new country there?
     
    Do you honestly believe the US would allow white South Africans to have their own country, no matter how small it might be? It would be an admission that diversity doesn't work, and the Americans will never ever admit that. If the white South Africans tried it they'd find themselves being bombed into oblivion by the US.

    The only sensible thing for white South Africans to do is to leave, but how many countries are going to be willing to pay the political price for admitting white refugees? Again it would be an admission that diversity is a failure.
    , @Ed
    Once things get going anything is possible. I suspect you'd see mass defections from SA military of white & probably even coloured soldiers. The blacks would at some point devolve along ethnic lines. I think it's quite possible that in such a war that not only an Afrikaner led group carves out a section of the country they win the whole damn thing.
    , @Jack D
    Seriously, no. Way too late now. Maybe in 1948 when the National Party gained power they could have divided the baby in half India/Pakistan style but instead they were greedy and went for all or nothing. You'll note that one of those two possibilities is nothing.
    , @PV van der Byl
    Jack D (see #16) is basically correct.

    The only remote chance that whites have of remaining in South Africa for the long-term is if they all move to the Western Cape and establish a white/coloured rump state.

    And that really wouldn't be easy. Among other things, they would suffer a dramatic decrease in their standard of living.
    , @mobi

    Seriously, is there any hope of them staking out a small part of South Africa and making a new country there?
     
    A 'Goy Israel'.

    Even easier, on balance, because - Africans.

    They wouldn't even need the massive transfusion of Goy Gelt that Israel receives. Just the relative absence of the active obstruction they faced before.

    Which, it turns out, may not be as unlikely as it seemed until just recently.

    Combined with offering an Israeli-style automatic 'Right of Return' (so to speak) for Caucasians worldwide.

    Yes We Can!
  22. Our dear host conveniently omits the ethnicity of “Sir” Henry Strakosch, Churchill’s financier sugar daddy, although there is admittedly little room for the imagination here.

    Every time.

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    • Replies: @Jake
    Strakosch married late in life. Was he also gay? That would have fit with the Rhodes crowd and much of the English establishment, as well as gay Jews worldwide.
    , @iffen
    Steve did not conveniently omit anything.

    He get this way when he hasn't had the chance to recently play a round of golf.

    Besides, pointing out the Jew-nections is not anti-Semitism per se.

  23. @Twinkie
    This is just a desperation move by Zuma. The ANC was *crushed* during the last local election. Even black South Africans are tired of the incompetence and corruption of the ANC, especially under Zuma. There is panic in the ANC, because "the unthinkable" is now possible - ANC's national loss (and loss of the presidency).

    Twinkie, When I hear about Zuma and SA and Mugbe and Zimbabwe I think of the movie “District 9″, and both countries are an alien invasion away from living that scenario.

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    • Replies: @Detective Club
    "District 9" is a fantastic movie. You see what happens when Earth Privilege raises its ugly head against interplanetary migrants who are just doing the jobs that homo sapiens won't do :

    https://youtu.be/X1FQnlocz_w
    , @MJMD
    What I loved about "District 9" was the way in which it worked as an allegory of two different things at the same time. What I hated about the people who reviewed it in Europe and North America was the fact that they inevitably only saw the one, the one they were familiar with (apartheid), and invariably seemed to have no awareness of the other (black South Africans' murderous hatred of illegal immigrants from the rest of Africa).

    Moreover, they seemed not to appreciate the fact that the allegory wasn't really soft-pedaled: the aliens were addicted to cat food, lived like animals, and frequently ripped people apart or beat them to death. A few of them were sympathetic, sure, and the social critique of the inhuman system to which they were subjected was entirely warranted, but Blomkamp (unlike, say, James Cameron) felt no need to make them either sexy or saints. Even worse were the Nigerian gangsters, all presented as murderous psychopaths. "District 9" is a movie that still holds up.
  24. @Twinkie
    This is just a desperation move by Zuma. The ANC was *crushed* during the last local election. Even black South Africans are tired of the incompetence and corruption of the ANC, especially under Zuma. There is panic in the ANC, because "the unthinkable" is now possible - ANC's national loss (and loss of the presidency).

    If this is a desperation move by Zuma isn’t that a sign the group that takes the ANC’s place will be even worse? Where does this leave the white farmers? Trump should setup a refugee program for them.

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    • Replies: @Fredrik
    No, the primary opposition is the party most White South Africans vote for. Democratic Alliance looks like a typical well meaning liberal party with all the drawbacks from that but compared to ANC they're geniuses. The party has Black representatives and I'd say that if the handle the metropolises they won from ANC even somewhat better than ANC did the rewards will be great in 2019 when the next election is due.
  25. Mr Zuma, 74, who made the remarks in a speech yesterday/FRI morning, said he wanted to establish a “pre-colonial land audit of land use and occupation patterns”

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the Bantu settlers in South Africa themselves colonists on what used to be San territory? And aren’t Bantu colonists of even more recent vintage than the Boer colonists?

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    • Replies: @Massimo Heitor

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the Bantu settlers in South Africa themselves colonists on what used to be San territory? And aren’t Bantu colonists of even more recent vintage than the Boer colonists?
     
    AFAIK, The English had colonies, the Boer were more settlers independent from a larger empire.

    There was tons of black-on-black warfare and white-on-white warfare, it definitely was not mostly white-vs-black throughout history.

    The San bushmen pre dated whites and modern blacks in South Africa. Now, they are a small minority, and most modern day blacks in South Africa came to South Africa well after most of the Boer had settled.

    Bottom line: no one cares. It's quite obvious that Julius Malema are not making any attempt at a neutral reasonable analysis of history. Malema and his ilk want to seize money, land, power, and they will twist history to justify whatever they want. Zuma is doing this too, but it may be a move of desperation?

    It's becoming quite clear that the whites who wanted peaceful separate countries were not the unreasonable demonic monsters they were painted to be.
    , @dearieme
    Yes, the Bantu are colonists.

    Yes, they were johhny-come-latelies in the Cape. They arrived in Natal before the Boers or British though.
    , @Nigerian Nationalist
    Can't believe I have to explain Thucydides here.

    It was San land when they were strong, then it was Bantu land, then the Afrikanners could claim it, well now guess who's the weaker party?

    If say Trump went, hey Zuma, don't be an idiot, try that, we'll bomb the shit out of you, I'm willing to bet that the Afrikanners would rest easy in their possession.

    This remains my gripe with certain blacks who refuse to see that this is not true strength. Disgusting attitude in my opinion.
    , @Clyde

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the Bantu settlers in South Africa themselves colonists on what used to be San territory? And aren’t Bantu colonists of even more recent vintage than the Boer colonists?
     
    Wikipedia says that you are correct. fwiw -- "When the early Portuguese sailors (cf. Vasco Da Gama and Bartholomew Dias) rounded the Cape of Good Hope in the 15th century very few Bantu speakers were found there. The predominant indigenous population around the Cape was made up of Khoisan peoples."
    , @SnakeEyes
    The Great Fish River in the eastern Cape Province was where European settlers heading north met Bantu peoples migrating south. So land south-west of that line should be exempt from confiscation. I doubt President Zuma's historical land audit would make that finding though.
  26. @SFG
    Seriously, is there any hope of them staking out a small part of South Africa and making a new country there?

    Seriously, is there any hope of them staking out a small part of South Africa and making a new country there?

    Yes, there is some hope. Because now that Trump is President, we wouldn’t intervene to prevent them from doing so.

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  27. @SFG
    Seriously, is there any hope of them staking out a small part of South Africa and making a new country there?

    Seriously, is there any hope of them staking out a small part of South Africa and making a new country there?

    Do you honestly believe the US would allow white South Africans to have their own country, no matter how small it might be? It would be an admission that diversity doesn’t work, and the Americans will never ever admit that. If the white South Africans tried it they’d find themselves being bombed into oblivion by the US.

    The only sensible thing for white South Africans to do is to leave, but how many countries are going to be willing to pay the political price for admitting white refugees? Again it would be an admission that diversity is a failure.

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  28. South Africa’s role in world history is a rather curious one. It’s immense inequality meant that it generated a surplus of wealth that could be directed to influence politics in imperial capitals. For example, Georgetown professor Carroll Quigley was convinced that the proteges of Cecil Rhodes, such as Alfred Milner, had conspired to exercise an outsized role in British politics into the 1930s. One of Quigley’s more outlandish assertions is that the Milner conservative cabal had controlled the Encyclopedia Britannica, which you could tell by looking at the entries for its members. I looked up the entry in the 1971 edition for Rhodes’ Joshua, Colonel Leander Jameson, and, yeah, it read like Quigley wasn’t crazy.

    William Manchester’s vivid biography of Winston Churchill includes a chapter on Winston living large in the late 1930s at his country estate of Chartwell. But … how could Churchill afford that on his journalistic earnings? The short answer is Churchill couldn’t afford his spendaholic lifestyle. He was on the verge of having to sell Chartwell in 1938 to avoid bankruptcy when Austrian-born South African zillionaire Sir Henry Strakosch, the chairman of The Economist, secretly bailed Churchill out so he could concentrate on fighting appeasement of Hitler.

    “He felt like somebody had taken the lid off life and let him see the works.”

    This isn’t the first time I’ve had cause to quote Mr. Hammett on this blog.

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  29. @Almost Missouri

    Mr Zuma, 74, who made the remarks in a speech yesterday/FRI morning, said he wanted to establish a “pre-colonial land audit of land use and occupation patterns”
     
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the Bantu settlers in South Africa themselves colonists on what used to be San territory? And aren't Bantu colonists of even more recent vintage than the Boer colonists?

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the Bantu settlers in South Africa themselves colonists on what used to be San territory? And aren’t Bantu colonists of even more recent vintage than the Boer colonists?

    AFAIK, The English had colonies, the Boer were more settlers independent from a larger empire.

    There was tons of black-on-black warfare and white-on-white warfare, it definitely was not mostly white-vs-black throughout history.

    The San bushmen pre dated whites and modern blacks in South Africa. Now, they are a small minority, and most modern day blacks in South Africa came to South Africa well after most of the Boer had settled.

    Bottom line: no one cares. It’s quite obvious that Julius Malema are not making any attempt at a neutral reasonable analysis of history. Malema and his ilk want to seize money, land, power, and they will twist history to justify whatever they want. Zuma is doing this too, but it may be a move of desperation?

    It’s becoming quite clear that the whites who wanted peaceful separate countries were not the unreasonable demonic monsters they were painted to be.

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  30. While the speech is a troubling window into Zuma’s mind, “calling for” expropriation before a favorable audience of traditional leaders and actually implementing it are two different things. SA is still a parliamentary democracy so just like in the US, just because the President “calls for” something doesn’t mean it will actually happen. An ideal situation for a politician is the situation where you can “call for” something in order to perpetually appeal to your base without having to actually live with the consequences – the dog can chase the car forever without catching it.

    The black leadership has been “studying” land reform in SA for almost as long as we have been “studying” immigration reform in the US. Even in this speech, Zuma mumbles some doubletalk about first doing a pre-colonial land audit of land use and occupation patterns, blah, blah. So when the traditional leaders ask next year where their free land that they were promised last year is, he can say that “the audit is currently in progress and will be done soon [never]. ”

    This article gives you some idea of the political nuances:

    https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2017-03-03-parliament-zuma-calls-on-anc-to-unite-with-eff-to-change-the-constitution-on-land-issues/#

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    • Replies: @MadDog
    It's different. Americans want less immigrants but they don't make their lives difficult which would encourage them to leave. Black Africans already make life dangerous for whites. But no one will take the whites as refugees. This rhetoric solely encourages blacks to attack whites. It encourages the rapes, maiming and murder of whites.
    , @reiner Tor
    Zuma is not stupid. I'm sure he's smarter in many ways than most Western leaders (like those of Germany, Merkel's PhD notwithstanding). He knows full well the consequences of such expropriation.

    However, those tribal leaders aren't stupid either. They want those lands, and it's getting progressively more difficult to contain them.

    Look, there's been talk of such expropriation since the early days of this wonderful multicultural paradise. Zuma and his predecessors have resisted such pressures until now. This is the first time that a South African president has talked favorably of such a solution. There's a limit to how much he can talk out of both sides of his mouth. Eventually he (or one of his successors) will have to bow to the pressure.

    SA is still a parliamentary democracy
     
    The purpose of the "land reform" would be to change this. Apparently some commenters here still cling to the belief that an independent judiciary can stop such things from happening.
    , @Expletive Deleted

    a pre-colonial land audit
     
    In that case, why are they letting themselves be oppressed by the White Man's soulless, artificial national borders? I say the ANC should redistribute all the land in Africa to whoever they like, all the way to the Nile.
  31. South Africa managed not to have a flood of all its educated whites and Indians leaving after the end of apartheid–that was a pretty amazing accomplishment, and one for which Mandela is rightly credited. But it was always a possibility for later.

    If Zuma’s desperation moves to stay in power work out badly enough, we could see a huge outflow of white refugees from South Africa to go along with the huge outflows from Syria, Iraq, and Africa. That will lead to some interesting politics, as taking in white South African refugees will play very differently than taking in a lot of Arabs from the middle east. My guess is that about 80% of the people most opposed to middle eastern refugees would be okay with letting white South Africans in, and likewise about 80% of the people who want to let in middle eastern refugees would object to South Africans.

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    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    They'll go to NZ with the rest of their family.

    It always amused me when liberals say they'll "go to NZ". Outside of the Cormandel and the Hibiscus Coast, you run into a LOT of White SA and Rhodesian types who make me look like some kind of swpl.
    , @Bill B.
    My impression is that quite a lot of white south africans have gone to Australia. Places like the Ukraine IIRC are also interested.

    Surely better than Somalis and a strong argument could be made that whites are peculiarly vulnerable in Africa; too convenient a scapegoat.

    Large communities of white south africans with deep collective memories of the joys of multiracial societies could be useful bulwarks in the west.

    But sounds too convenient to work out...

    , @TelfoedJohn
    Taking in white South Africans would be an interesting experience. Personally, I'm not a fan of the white South African personality.. they are brash, loud, aggressive etc. Rather like Israelis - perhaps for the same reasons - living in a difficult neighbourhood.

    Australian reactions to South Africans: http://www.saaustralia.org/topic/43980-south-african-stereotypes/

    In Australia, only a small amount of South Africans are Dutch-descent Afrikaners. Where would they go? 'Back' to support Geert Wilders?
    , @PapayaSF
    My fantasy: Trump halts all refugee programs to reconsider them, then restarts them with new rules that make the programs work to the benefit of the US. That means we accept white South Africans, and Europeans fleeing Islam, but no Muslims or poor South Americans.

    It would be funny to see the MSM/Democrat reaction, given that they've already turned up the anti-Trump frenzy to 11.
  32. Currently, whites are ~9% of the SA population. Fifty years ago whites were ~20% of the population. The two questions facing SA over the next 50 years are:

    1) How long before the blacks decide to murder all the whites

    2) How man blacks will the whites be willing to kill to avoid being chased off the continent?

    The answers are soon and nowhere near enough.

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  33. @NOTA
    South Africa managed not to have a flood of all its educated whites and Indians leaving after the end of apartheid--that was a pretty amazing accomplishment, and one for which Mandela is rightly credited. But it was always a possibility for later.

    If Zuma's desperation moves to stay in power work out badly enough, we could see a huge outflow of white refugees from South Africa to go along with the huge outflows from Syria, Iraq, and Africa. That will lead to some interesting politics, as taking in white South African refugees will play very differently than taking in a lot of Arabs from the middle east. My guess is that about 80% of the people most opposed to middle eastern refugees would be okay with letting white South Africans in, and likewise about 80% of the people who want to let in middle eastern refugees would object to South Africans.

    They’ll go to NZ with the rest of their family.

    It always amused me when liberals say they’ll “go to NZ”. Outside of the Cormandel and the Hibiscus Coast, you run into a LOT of White SA and Rhodesian types who make me look like some kind of swpl.

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    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe

    It always amused me when liberals say they’ll “go to NZ”
     
    People can't just "go to New Zealand." They have immigration laws which they will enforce.
  34. @SFG
    Seriously, is there any hope of them staking out a small part of South Africa and making a new country there?

    Once things get going anything is possible. I suspect you’d see mass defections from SA military of white & probably even coloured soldiers. The blacks would at some point devolve along ethnic lines. I think it’s quite possible that in such a war that not only an Afrikaner led group carves out a section of the country they win the whole damn thing.

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  35. @SFG
    Seriously, is there any hope of them staking out a small part of South Africa and making a new country there?

    Seriously, no. Way too late now. Maybe in 1948 when the National Party gained power they could have divided the baby in half India/Pakistan style but instead they were greedy and went for all or nothing. You’ll note that one of those two possibilities is nothing.

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    • Replies: @SFG
    Yeah, I just thought maybe they could withdraw to a smaller, defensible part of the country, preferably with a coastline, and declare independence.

    BTW, this is exactly how I feel about Israel. They should have given the Palestinians their scrap of land, built the wall there, and called it quits. But they had to get greedy, use them as cheap labor, and keep grabbing land in settlements. Now they're going to be forced into a one-state solution where they'll eventually be outnumbered and then killed.

    , @syonredux

    Seriously, no. Way too late now. Maybe in 1948 when the National Party gained power they could have divided the baby in half India/Pakistan style but instead they were greedy and went for all or nothing. You’ll note that one of those two possibilities is nothing.
     
    Yeah, that's what I've always said. I have a lot of sympathy for the Afrikaners, but they missed their big opportunity back in the '40s.
  36. FYI: Mugabe has since scrapped the Zimbabwean dollar completely, replacing it with a mini-IMF-style basket of currencies, including the Pound sterling, the US dollar and the Chinese RMB. This was a very clever, typically Mugabe move: unlike 10-15 years ago, it would now be impossible for any superpower to attack Zimbabwe’s currency without also attacking their own. It also, of course, completely cured the inflation problem, and since 2009, GDP growth has been quite robust.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwean_dollar#Abandonment_and_demonetisation

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/zimbabwe/gdp

    To make a long story short, what occurred between 2000-2009 in Zimbabwe was not domestic economic mismanagement, but an attempted color-revolution, sponsored by Wall St., George Soros, and the City of London.

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    • Replies: @Ed
    Dollarization can't change fundamentals. An economy is dependent on trade, ability to finance deficits, attract foreign investment & accumulate debt. Zimbabwe runs a massive trade imbalance importing more than it exports. It has minimal to no access to capital markets & attracts minima foreign investment. There are a shortages of dollars & other hard currencies. Their economy is imploding.
  37. A few months ago I was talking to a young chap recently back from visiting several countries in southern and eastern Africa. His main impression is how much pleasanter the people are than West Africans, both those he’s met in Nigeria and those he’s met in Britain. I was amused because an old Africa hand had told me the same thing decades ago. Datum + datum = data.

    His second impression was less obvious; the most unpleasant of the countries he visited was South Africa because of its permanent air of violence being just around the corner. Even less obvious, perhaps, was that he found Rwanda a well run, clean, peaceful place, a fine place to visit if you’d like to see gorillas in the wild.

    Make of that what you will.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I recall reading about Johannesburg, some years ago, post-apartheid, that you couldn't walk on the streets even in daytime, even in a group.
    A few years ago I read a biography of Paul Kagame. It was slightly hagiographical, but insisted that you could now walk alone in Kigali at night.
    Paul Kagame might not measure up to Lee Kuan Yew (and I really don't know), but I suspect Africa would do better with more Paul Kagame's and fewer Julius Malema's.
  38. A complete meltdown in South Africa would be beautiful. It would utterly and completely destroy any remaining argument for multiculturalism. When talking about mass immigration and the looming prospect of whites becoming minorities in our own countries we would never have to make any complicated intellectual arguments. All we would have to say is “South Africa.”

    South Africa is destined to go the way of Zimbabwe. The sooner the better.

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    • Agree: Abe, Kylie
    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Unfortunately, all too few North Americans and Europeans recognize Zimbabwe for what it is.

    That country, alone, should be all the example required.
    , @Achmed E. Newman

    A complete meltdown in South Africa would be beautiful. It would utterly and completely destroy any remaining argument for multiculturalism. When talking about mass immigration and the looming prospect of whites becoming minorities in our own countries we would never have to make any complicated intellectual arguments. All we would have to say is “South Africa.”
     
    I've got to agree with Rob McX, Wilkey. I thought the same when I read your comment - there has already been plenty to learn from. Rob didn't add more to this so I will. People on this blog, of course, but probably 1/2 of the country have the sense to know enough from what happened in Rhodesia, what happened in Detroit and almost all city cores, and what is happening now in Europe to know multiculturalism is... hmmm, let's say .. unsound. They want this to stop, especially here.

    It's not that the other 1/2 don't know it's unsound either. They just don't want it to stop. That's mainly because they started it. They want things to go completely to hell in the white Western world, because that makes them feel good. They figure they'll be alright when the SHTF. They are mostly wrong about that.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    Honeslty, I would argue it has already melted down.
    , @snorlax
    I'm afraid it wouldn't really change any minds. Liberals and even cuckservatives would just say it's not a black problem (proof: St. Mandela), but rather with Zuma abandoning the principles of St. Mandela. And, besides, the SA whites had it coming.
  39. @Almost Missouri

    Mr Zuma, 74, who made the remarks in a speech yesterday/FRI morning, said he wanted to establish a “pre-colonial land audit of land use and occupation patterns”
     
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the Bantu settlers in South Africa themselves colonists on what used to be San territory? And aren't Bantu colonists of even more recent vintage than the Boer colonists?

    Yes, the Bantu are colonists.

    Yes, they were johhny-come-latelies in the Cape. They arrived in Natal before the Boers or British though.

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  40. @SFG
    Seriously, is there any hope of them staking out a small part of South Africa and making a new country there?

    Jack D (see #16) is basically correct.

    The only remote chance that whites have of remaining in South Africa for the long-term is if they all move to the Western Cape and establish a white/coloured rump state.

    And that really wouldn’t be easy. Among other things, they would suffer a dramatic decrease in their standard of living.

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    • Replies: @Daniel H
    >>And that really wouldn’t be easy. Among other things, they would suffer a dramatic decrease in their standard of living.

    Ah, there's the rub, because who could ever expect white folks to forsake maids, gardeners, leaf blowers, waiters, etc...... Too many whites, too often the ones with access to the megaphone - South Africa, Europe, The USA - have convinced themselves and convinced others who should know better that it is better to annihilate oneself than to endure live without these petty luxuries.
  41. “South Africa is an oddly influential place.”

    During the 1930s, the Financial Times had just two permanent overseas correspondents: Paris and Johannesburg.

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    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe


    “South Africa is an oddly influential place.”

    During the 1930s, the Financial Times had just two permanent overseas correspondents: Paris and Johannesburg.
     
    Is the gold? diamonds? uranium?
  42. @Wilkey
    A complete meltdown in South Africa would be beautiful. It would utterly and completely destroy any remaining argument for multiculturalism. When talking about mass immigration and the looming prospect of whites becoming minorities in our own countries we would never have to make any complicated intellectual arguments. All we would have to say is "South Africa."

    South Africa is destined to go the way of Zimbabwe. The sooner the better.

    Unfortunately, all too few North Americans and Europeans recognize Zimbabwe for what it is.

    That country, alone, should be all the example required.

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  43. @Almost Missouri

    Mr Zuma, 74, who made the remarks in a speech yesterday/FRI morning, said he wanted to establish a “pre-colonial land audit of land use and occupation patterns”
     
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the Bantu settlers in South Africa themselves colonists on what used to be San territory? And aren't Bantu colonists of even more recent vintage than the Boer colonists?

    Can’t believe I have to explain Thucydides here.

    It was San land when they were strong, then it was Bantu land, then the Afrikanners could claim it, well now guess who’s the weaker party?

    If say Trump went, hey Zuma, don’t be an idiot, try that, we’ll bomb the shit out of you, I’m willing to bet that the Afrikanners would rest easy in their possession.

    This remains my gripe with certain blacks who refuse to see that this is not true strength. Disgusting attitude in my opinion.

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  44. A complete meltdown in South Africa would be beautiful. It would utterly and completely destroy any remaining argument for multiculturalism.

    I’m afraid you’re way too optimistic on that. We already see living proof on our very doorsteps of fact that multiculturalism is a disaster – London, Paris, Nice, Berlin, Stockholm…if you live in a white country, you’re never more than a few hours’ drive from its nightmarish consequences. Plus, as you say, what will happen in SA has already happened on a smaller scale next door in Zimbabwe, and it hasn’t made the slightest difference.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    Zimbabwe's anti white ethnic cleansing probably had a small impact, not none, especially in Australia and the UK where they tended to flee.

    South Africa is much bigger in numbers and its place in Western minds, and the media now is decentralized.
    , @dfordoom

    what will happen in SA has already happened on a smaller scale next door in Zimbabwe, and it hasn’t made the slightest difference.
     
    If there's a complete meltdown in South Africa the western media will explain to us that it was caused by white racism, or the legacy of apartheid, or possibly Russian hackers. And most people will believe the media.
  45. “The populists in America aren’t actually going to come for the bankers and diamond merchants with pitchforks and flaming tires.”

    This is why you aren’t the Operations Officer, Steve.

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  46. SOUTH AFRICA’S ZUMA EMULATES ZIMBABWE’S MUGABE IN HIS METHODICAL ANTI-WHITE ELIMINATIONIST PLANS

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  47. @Twinkie
    This is just a desperation move by Zuma. The ANC was *crushed* during the last local election. Even black South Africans are tired of the incompetence and corruption of the ANC, especially under Zuma. There is panic in the ANC, because "the unthinkable" is now possible - ANC's national loss (and loss of the presidency).

    Wikipedia page on the last South African local elections:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_municipal_elections,_2016

    Agree this is a desperation move by the ANC. It is in danger of being implemented only if they wind up in a coalition with the Economic Freedom Fighters after the next national elections. Even then, South Africa has a bill of rights and an independent judiciary.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Even then, South Africa has a bill of rights and an independent judiciary.
     
    Oh, well, then they'll be okay. Nothing could possibly undermine those.
    , @reiner Tor

    South Africa has a bill of rights and an independent judiciary
     
    Ha! That's a good one!

    I guess that even if the combined forces of the bill of rights and the independent judiciary prove insufficient to stop Zuma, calling him a bad person in the Guardian might still do the trick.
    , @Twinkie
    The ANC lost control of not just Jo-Burg, but Nelson Mandela City! Think about the symbolism of that!
  48. Any Boers on this thread? Will the Afrikaners fight back, or have they become “Swedishized”?

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    • Replies: @L Woods
    Their youth have devolved into flip-flop wearing SoCal beach boy imitations from what I saw there.
    , @anon
    No , they will not fight back. They had the entirety of the country in their hands and voluntarily gave it all away. The time for fighting has long passed. They had every opportunity to be a free people in their own land and be self sufficient , albeit in a possibly lowered economic strata , and they squandered it.
    , @Rey
    If need be we will fight back because we can. The land is drenched with our forefathers blood so if we run their efforts would be in vain.
  49. @Jack D
    While the speech is a troubling window into Zuma's mind, "calling for" expropriation before a favorable audience of traditional leaders and actually implementing it are two different things. SA is still a parliamentary democracy so just like in the US, just because the President "calls for" something doesn't mean it will actually happen. An ideal situation for a politician is the situation where you can "call for" something in order to perpetually appeal to your base without having to actually live with the consequences - the dog can chase the car forever without catching it.

    The black leadership has been "studying" land reform in SA for almost as long as we have been "studying" immigration reform in the US. Even in this speech, Zuma mumbles some doubletalk about first doing a pre-colonial land audit of land use and occupation patterns, blah, blah. So when the traditional leaders ask next year where their free land that they were promised last year is, he can say that "the audit is currently in progress and will be done soon [never]. "

    This article gives you some idea of the political nuances:

    https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2017-03-03-parliament-zuma-calls-on-anc-to-unite-with-eff-to-change-the-constitution-on-land-issues/#

    It’s different. Americans want less immigrants but they don’t make their lives difficult which would encourage them to leave. Black Africans already make life dangerous for whites. But no one will take the whites as refugees. This rhetoric solely encourages blacks to attack whites. It encourages the rapes, maiming and murder of whites.

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    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    But no one will take the whites as refugees.
     
    That's not quite true. Countries with point systems will take qualified people in as immigrants. Canada, Australia and Singapore, for instance. For the rest, Latin American countries generally have no issues with white immigrants of whatever ability. South Africans get visa-free entry to a good chunk of the world. In extremis, they can simply travel there as tourists and make the usual, fairly universal commercial arrangements to stay (fake marriages, no-show employment with a local in exchange for a bribe and so on) that lard up immigrant numbers the world over. A lot of South Africans have grandparents from EU countries and can qualify for EU permanent residency and eventual citizenship. The upshot is that they shouldn't have too many problems moving to another country.

    Having said that, if the property seizures do materialize, they will have to move with little more than the clothes on their backs. They should heed the forewarnings they are getting from these discussions. Better to sell before it's taken away without compensation. South Africa is about to become a giant Bantustan. Why stick around for the denouement?

    The transition to non-English/non-Afrikaans speaking environments will be wrenching, in addition to the cultural adaptations necessary. However, the alternative is what happened to white Rhodesians after Mugabe took over - the death of hope, amidst an inexorable dread of complete dispossession, that came to pass in slow motion.

  50. @Buffalo Joe
    Twinkie, When I hear about Zuma and SA and Mugbe and Zimbabwe I think of the movie "District 9", and both countries are an alien invasion away from living that scenario.

    “District 9″ is a fantastic movie. You see what happens when Earth Privilege raises its ugly head against interplanetary migrants who are just doing the jobs that homo sapiens won’t do :

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Detective, Just Google "District 9" is a racist movie and read the comments by Africans , enlightening, Nigerians bashing Kenyans, bashing Congolese etc.
  51. So it’s true that WWII was pushed by Jewish bankers and that Churchill was financed by them, like I said before WWII was about saving Communism and Jewish money power from destruction.

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  52. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    And yet this is called justice instead of some word beginning with “anti” + -something.

    Ah, white people are so smart. “We” (but really, they: I can’t feel I am one of them) should be called the Apathetics. Indifference and cultural, historical unawareness being their (sorry, I am not like that) distinctive features.

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  53. The South African 2015 anti-immigration demonstrations were in hindsight a canary in the global economy. T

    StratforMAR 3, 2017

    Likewise, the unrest could force the South African government’s hand in policymaking. Populism has taken root in the impoverished and unemployed segments of South African society, though support for the anti-immigration agenda has not yet grown into a significant voting bloc. The same sentiments driving the attacks on foreign-owned businesses in the country have also caused the government and ruling African National Congress to adopt more populist policies. And since the party’s electoral clout in South Africa is ebbing, it has little choice but to keep yielding to the demands of its impoverished constituency.

    The rising tension between Nigeria and South Africa, or rather between their populations, offers a reminder that geopolitics is not solely the purview of states and governments. Popular movements and public perception often play a central role in influencing their leaders’ behavior and policy options. And as the violence in South Africa demonstrates, the anti-immigrant movement sweeping the country has surged beyond its rulers’ control. Although the governments of each nation may intend to keep supporting the other’s economic growth, the decision may not be theirs to make unless South Africa’s leaders can control the outbreaks of organized violence against immigrants in their country.

    Likewise, the unrest could force the South African government’s hand in policymaking. Populism has taken root in the impoverished and unemployed segments of South African society, though support for the anti-immigration agenda has not yet grown into a significant voting bloc. The same sentiments driving the attacks on foreign-owned businesses in the country have also caused the government and ruling African National Congress to adopt more populist policies. And since the party’s electoral clout in South Africa is ebbing, it has little choice but to keep yielding to the demands of its impoverished constituency.

    The rising tension between Nigeria and South Africa, or rather between their populations, offers a reminder that geopolitics is not solely the purview of states and governments. Popular movements and public perception often play a central role in influencing their leaders’ behavior and policy options. And as the violence in South Africa demonstrates, the anti-immigrant movement sweeping the country has surged beyond its rulers’ control. .

    Zuma is increasingly looking like a south African Trump.

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  54. OT, but Trump is now accusing Obama of having Trump Tower wire-tapped before the election.

    Here’s where all the leaking and other mischief by the Deep State comes back to haunt it.

    How can the Deep State apparatus — and Obama at its top — convincingly claim that this sort of nefarious thing wasn’t going on? They can assert of course that it would be against the law for the President to do so — Ben Rhodes has produced this lame excuse — but, given the massive number of illegal leaks the Deep State has engaged in since Trump came on the scene, how can they pretend that the law operates as any constraint on them and their activities? Their own lawless actions — celebrated of course by the media and the left to date — have conferred tremendous plausibility on Trump’s claims.

    Will the Deep State ever realize how its attempts at sabotage can backfire? How does it get a reputation for integrity back when it needs it?

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    • Replies: @res
    Check out the WaPo headline: "Trump, citing no evidence, accuses Obama of 'Nixon/Watergate' plot to wiretap Trump Tower"
    and the NYT, what a coincidence! "Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones"

    The Guardian article seems relatively useful: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/04/donald-trump-accuses-obama-of-wire-tapping-his-office-before-election
    , @Lugash

    Will the Deep State ever realize how its attempts at sabotage can backfire? How does it get a reputation for integrity back when it needs it?
     
    If, and it's a big if, the coup against Trump backfires, the DS will sacrifice a few pawns as 'rogue actors' and resume business as usual. We're at the 15th iteration of the Russia story and they've shown no signs of stopping. At best half of Trump's supporters think the DS is running a coup against him, and all of Hilary's supporters are buying it lock stock and barrel.
    , @Jack Hanson
    Trump wouldn't make this claim unless he had evidence to spring.

    And it's looking like we are moving from the Media blowing a valve over "irresponsible Trump allegations!" to Trump's Luck kicking in.
  55. Nota,

    Regarding your statement that 80% of the people who want to let in middle eastern refugees would object to [white] South Africans. This has already happened in Ireland where their immigration laws were tightened up to prevent white South Africans from claiming earlier kinship citizenship. This is par for the course in Ireland and would be in most of Western Europe.

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    • Replies: @SFG
    Yeah, that's what I figured.

    Any chance Trump could let some in? They're going to be killed eventually, and I don't know where else you'd get immigrants of European origin from. Most Europeans like their welfare states and don't want to come here.
  56. Waydaminit.

    You mean the South African Blacks are trying to force out immigrants including those outside of the Dutch Cape Colony they never let in?

    Isn’t this a good thing?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Cape_Colony

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  57. @Arclight
    One of the potential benefits of Trump is a reduction in foreign aid. It might feel good to say we are spending billions on 3rd world backwaters (ignoring our aid to Israel of course), but it does no good at all. If South Africa, Zimbabwe, etc. wants to have runaway levels of population growth coupled with thuggish government that can't devise a way for the country to feed itself or provide decent medical care, I saw let nature take its course. It's better for the entire planet in the long run.

    Foreign aid is a drop in the bucket for African economies, which are dominated by agricultural and resource extraction. The long natural resource boom that began in the late 1990s has led to continuous and high levels of economic growth in Africa, which has been used for the most part to support higher populations. Cheap Asian manufactured goods and cell phone tech has also led to large improvements in living standards even with higher populations.

    The gradual diffusion of Western ag tech plus the end of US and USSR funded proxy wars has also improved African economies.

    While we should end aid to Africa, its impact will be negligible. The image some have of Africans living near starvation from 80s Ethiopia and 90s Somalia is just not accurate for 95% of SSA. Islam’s border in Africa, like it is everywhere, is bloody, and Congo is still dysfunctional, but otherwise Africa is more peaceful now than in the past 50 years.

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    • Replies: @5371
    Utter nonsense. Such economic statistics as come out of Africa are free flights of fantasy. There was no resource boom before 2003 or after 2012. A cell phone by itself doesn't change anyone's standard of living. Africans are no further from starvation now than previously.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Lot, I understand resource extraction as a revenue stream for some African nations, gold, oil, cobalt etc., but I don't think agri. goods are exported in any significant amounts.
    , @International Jew

    Islam’s border in Africa, like it is everywhere, is bloody, and Congo is still dysfunctional, but otherwise Africa is more peaceful now than in the past 50 years.
     
    "Islam's border" takes you all the way down to the equator. Congo, Zimbabwe and South Africa cover half of the rest. What's left then, that's "peaceful"?
  58. @NOTA
    South Africa managed not to have a flood of all its educated whites and Indians leaving after the end of apartheid--that was a pretty amazing accomplishment, and one for which Mandela is rightly credited. But it was always a possibility for later.

    If Zuma's desperation moves to stay in power work out badly enough, we could see a huge outflow of white refugees from South Africa to go along with the huge outflows from Syria, Iraq, and Africa. That will lead to some interesting politics, as taking in white South African refugees will play very differently than taking in a lot of Arabs from the middle east. My guess is that about 80% of the people most opposed to middle eastern refugees would be okay with letting white South Africans in, and likewise about 80% of the people who want to let in middle eastern refugees would object to South Africans.

    My impression is that quite a lot of white south africans have gone to Australia. Places like the Ukraine IIRC are also interested.

    Surely better than Somalis and a strong argument could be made that whites are peculiarly vulnerable in Africa; too convenient a scapegoat.

    Large communities of white south africans with deep collective memories of the joys of multiracial societies could be useful bulwarks in the west.

    But sounds too convenient to work out…

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  59. @NOTA
    South Africa managed not to have a flood of all its educated whites and Indians leaving after the end of apartheid--that was a pretty amazing accomplishment, and one for which Mandela is rightly credited. But it was always a possibility for later.

    If Zuma's desperation moves to stay in power work out badly enough, we could see a huge outflow of white refugees from South Africa to go along with the huge outflows from Syria, Iraq, and Africa. That will lead to some interesting politics, as taking in white South African refugees will play very differently than taking in a lot of Arabs from the middle east. My guess is that about 80% of the people most opposed to middle eastern refugees would be okay with letting white South Africans in, and likewise about 80% of the people who want to let in middle eastern refugees would object to South Africans.

    Taking in white South Africans would be an interesting experience. Personally, I’m not a fan of the white South African personality.. they are brash, loud, aggressive etc. Rather like Israelis – perhaps for the same reasons – living in a difficult neighbourhood.

    Australian reactions to South Africans: http://www.saaustralia.org/topic/43980-south-african-stereotypes/

    In Australia, only a small amount of South Africans are Dutch-descent Afrikaners. Where would they go? ‘Back’ to support Geert Wilders?

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    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted

    Where would they go? ‘Back’ to support Geert Wilders?
     
    Texas. Those boys don't mind the heat and dust, and they can ride and shoot pretty good.
    Texans would just have to get used to their weird versions of football and baseball, of course.
    , @Anonym
    Taking in white South Africans would be an interesting experience. Personally, I’m not a fan of the white South African personality.. they are brash, loud, aggressive etc.

    I quite like white SAs... I find them funny/amusing and they have some great stories. A lot of the men have a very healthy self respect for their own fighting abilities. "I was surrounded by 8 guys who picked a fight with me. It was lucky for them I was in a sporting mood...". I can't remember exactly what was said but the guy I remember could certainly fight.

    Living as a minority among unruly SSAs in a Detroit-like environment must be tough and from what I can see, breeds a very capable, no-nonsense human used to making things work against all odds. They remind me of people who have lived through war or depression, because they certainly understand the difference between need and want.

    As I said, I quite like their brash, aggressive, self-confident, no-BS, competent character especially if they have the ability to back it up. It always impresses me that the SAs were able to build their own nukes beginning in 1967, total population of around 20M and about 20% whites - 4M whites built 6 nukes. Respect.

    (We wuz hidden figgahz!)

    , @Kyle McKenna

    Personally, I’m not a fan of the white South African personality.. they are brash, loud, aggressive etc. Rather like Israelis – perhaps for the same reasons – living in a difficult neighbourhood.
     
    Another of the reasons being that many of them are jewish--many of the rich ones, anyway.
  60. @Rob McX

    A complete meltdown in South Africa would be beautiful. It would utterly and completely destroy any remaining argument for multiculturalism.
     
    I'm afraid you're way too optimistic on that. We already see living proof on our very doorsteps of fact that multiculturalism is a disaster - London, Paris, Nice, Berlin, Stockholm...if you live in a white country, you're never more than a few hours' drive from its nightmarish consequences. Plus, as you say, what will happen in SA has already happened on a smaller scale next door in Zimbabwe, and it hasn't made the slightest difference.

    Zimbabwe’s anti white ethnic cleansing probably had a small impact, not none, especially in Australia and the UK where they tended to flee.

    South Africa is much bigger in numbers and its place in Western minds, and the media now is decentralized.

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  61. OT: Has Uber pissed someone powerful off? The establishment seems to be in full takedown mode. The latest: http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/03/uber-used-secret-program-evade-law-enforcement-report-claims

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    • Replies: @snorlax
    I work in tech. Their CEO, Travis Kalanick, was considered too slow to condemn Trump's "Muslim ban," so now, comrade, he must be made an example of for his (suspected) thoughtcrime and overall white maleness. Uber delenda est.
    , @bored identity



    “pre-colonial land audit of land use and occupation patterns

     

    Occupation Patern #1: The White Boar or Rino Huntsman (Tip of the Spear of Community Organizing)
    , @NOTA
    I've been assuming this is a move by some current or prospective competitor to take them down.
  62. @candid_observer
    OT, but Trump is now accusing Obama of having Trump Tower wire-tapped before the election.

    Here's where all the leaking and other mischief by the Deep State comes back to haunt it.

    How can the Deep State apparatus -- and Obama at its top -- convincingly claim that this sort of nefarious thing wasn't going on? They can assert of course that it would be against the law for the President to do so -- Ben Rhodes has produced this lame excuse -- but, given the massive number of illegal leaks the Deep State has engaged in since Trump came on the scene, how can they pretend that the law operates as any constraint on them and their activities? Their own lawless actions -- celebrated of course by the media and the left to date -- have conferred tremendous plausibility on Trump's claims.

    Will the Deep State ever realize how its attempts at sabotage can backfire? How does it get a reputation for integrity back when it needs it?

    Check out the WaPo headline: “Trump, citing no evidence, accuses Obama of ‘Nixon/Watergate’ plot to wiretap Trump Tower”
    and the NYT, what a coincidence! “Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones”

    The Guardian article seems relatively useful: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/04/donald-trump-accuses-obama-of-wire-tapping-his-office-before-election

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  63. I actually somewhat hope this happens, it might negatively affect the image of African blacks in the West and make it easier to keep them out of Europe.
    In retrospect the Afrikaners were probably wrong to hand over power the way they did in the early 1990s.

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    • Replies: @Ed
    I don't even think other Black African countries would be inclined or able to offer much support as they did during Apartheid. SA blacks have harmed relations with other African countries due to their xenophobia.

    I personally think the Afrikaners would win a war out right.
    , @Joe Schmoe

    I actually somewhat hope this happens, it might negatively affect the image of African blacks in the West and make it easier to keep them out of Europe.
    In retrospect the Afrikaners were probably wrong to hand over power the way they did in the early 1990s.
     
    Hey, what about Putin, might he want some Afrikaners?
    , @Formerly CARealist
    Did they have a choice in handing over power? The entire world was aligned against the gov't (de Klerk or whoever?) and there were big demonstrations on every college campus. Boycotts, embargoes, all that pressure. I was surprised that the white gov't lasted as long as it did.

    We all knew that country would descend into chaos and chase out the whites. I don't even think it wasn't part of the plan all along. Did anybody think otherwise?
  64. @eD
    Wikipedia page on the last South African local elections:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_municipal_elections,_2016

    Agree this is a desperation move by the ANC. It is in danger of being implemented only if they wind up in a coalition with the Economic Freedom Fighters after the next national elections. Even then, South Africa has a bill of rights and an independent judiciary.

    Even then, South Africa has a bill of rights and an independent judiciary.

    Oh, well, then they’ll be okay. Nothing could possibly undermine those.

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  65. @Arclight
    One of the potential benefits of Trump is a reduction in foreign aid. It might feel good to say we are spending billions on 3rd world backwaters (ignoring our aid to Israel of course), but it does no good at all. If South Africa, Zimbabwe, etc. wants to have runaway levels of population growth coupled with thuggish government that can't devise a way for the country to feed itself or provide decent medical care, I saw let nature take its course. It's better for the entire planet in the long run.

    U.S. foreign aid to African nations mostly winds up in the pockets of the kleptocrats, enriching the dictators and making it harder for the ordinary people to break the cycle.

    So, it’s not merely better for the planet in the long run, but for the ordinary people themselves – whatever chance they might have to re-invent their societies would be improved if the U.S. would stop giving money to the thugs who run their countries.

    But U.S. foreign aid also comes at the expense of the U.S. taxpayer, and the decision-makers in the world know that without our money, 3rd World foreign governments would default on their loans to institutions like the I.M.F. and the World Bank.

    And those institutions have to be repaid, dontcha know, because the Very Important People have to have their (our) money.

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  66. @Jack D
    Seriously, no. Way too late now. Maybe in 1948 when the National Party gained power they could have divided the baby in half India/Pakistan style but instead they were greedy and went for all or nothing. You'll note that one of those two possibilities is nothing.

    Yeah, I just thought maybe they could withdraw to a smaller, defensible part of the country, preferably with a coastline, and declare independence.

    BTW, this is exactly how I feel about Israel. They should have given the Palestinians their scrap of land, built the wall there, and called it quits. But they had to get greedy, use them as cheap labor, and keep grabbing land in settlements. Now they’re going to be forced into a one-state solution where they’ll eventually be outnumbered and then killed.

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    • Replies: @MJMD
    Am slowly reading through a number of books on the Afrikaners at the moment. The fact is that they've been greedy from the time of the Great Trek onward: even in the early 19th Century there were voices warning that they were destroying any hope of their own nation-state by setting out to grab land with little agricultural value and lots of angry natives. And, given the problems with rinderpest, sleeping sickness, and generally poor soil quality that you get in Southern Africa once you leave the temperate area of the Cape, the Boers might even have pulled out. But then the gold and diamonds were found, and the rest, as they say, was history. The resource curse struck, and stuck.

    Israel has no such excuse, which makes their political malpractice even more amazing. It's frankly amazing that most Palestinians even want a two-state solution at this point! The moment they don't, there's a good likelihood that Israel will have sealed her own fate.

    But then again, assuming no right of return, an improved Jewish birth rate (among the ultra-religious, no less) may now mean that the Palestinians will never actually outnumber the Israelis within Greater Israel. Nothing like the 10-to-1 situation faced by South African whites, who also had many more 5th-columnists to contend with among the 1. The Afrikaners frankly seem like a people who've had the fight knocked out of them; the Zionists may yet prove willing to shoot their way out of the mess they've blundered into.
    , @SPMoore8
    I expect you will get a rebuttal insisting that the situations are completely different, but I tend to agree with you.

    One counter-argument is that the non-Jewish population will never exceed 50%, and therefore the Jews will always be in control. But no democracy actually works that way on an up/down 50% vote, at least not for very long. That doesn't spell the end of Israel but it does point to a more secular Israel.

    Having said that, the population disparity in South Africa is so huge (whites at 8.5%, Asians at 2.5%) that I expect land reform is the wave of the future and most of the whites and Asians will not be there in a few decades.
    , @International Jew

    BTW, this is exactly how I feel about Israel. They should have given the Palestinians their scrap of land, built the wall there, and called it quits. But they had to get greedy, use them as cheap labor, and keep grabbing land in settlements. Now they’re going to be forced into a one-state solution where they’ll eventually be outnumbered and then killed.
     
    If Israel ever loses its will to keep the West Bank and Gaza Arabs subdued and politically neutralized, it won't have the will to defend even a rump Jewish state confined to the Mediterranean shore.

    The long-term outlook there is a wholesale expulsion of the Arabs. It's only a matter of time because every new generation of Jews there is more religious and immune to the suicidal tendencies of the West. Israel's combat officers are already majority-religious-nationalist. Don't let the likes of Thomas Friedman and Richard Cohen give you the wrong idea; the meduan Israeli now doesn't give a rip about the Palestinians' sorry asses.

    , @Anonymous Nephew
    "they’ll eventually be outnumbered and then killed"

    The one doesn't of itself lead to the other, and while demography may (in a democracy) be destiny, IIRC the latest Israeli birth figures look quite hopeful from a Jewish perspective.

    There were a few tens of thousands of Brits in India in 1857, with several hundred million Indians against them. The Brits still won and if they hadn't fought Germany twice in the following century might be there still.

    Israel has been surrounded by numerically superior Arab countries since its inception, and beat them all until, perhaps, the day somewhere in the 80s they discovered it was more effective to get other countries to attack their most dangerous potential opponents.

    (In both examples the utility of "divide et impera" is demonstrated)
  67. @NOTA
    South Africa managed not to have a flood of all its educated whites and Indians leaving after the end of apartheid--that was a pretty amazing accomplishment, and one for which Mandela is rightly credited. But it was always a possibility for later.

    If Zuma's desperation moves to stay in power work out badly enough, we could see a huge outflow of white refugees from South Africa to go along with the huge outflows from Syria, Iraq, and Africa. That will lead to some interesting politics, as taking in white South African refugees will play very differently than taking in a lot of Arabs from the middle east. My guess is that about 80% of the people most opposed to middle eastern refugees would be okay with letting white South Africans in, and likewise about 80% of the people who want to let in middle eastern refugees would object to South Africans.

    My fantasy: Trump halts all refugee programs to reconsider them, then restarts them with new rules that make the programs work to the benefit of the US. That means we accept white South Africans, and Europeans fleeing Islam, but no Muslims or poor South Americans.

    It would be funny to see the MSM/Democrat reaction, given that they’ve already turned up the anti-Trump frenzy to 11.

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    • Replies: @Kyle a
    And he could really send them over the collective edge by granting Puerto Rico independence. How glorious would that be?
  68. @Jack D
    While the speech is a troubling window into Zuma's mind, "calling for" expropriation before a favorable audience of traditional leaders and actually implementing it are two different things. SA is still a parliamentary democracy so just like in the US, just because the President "calls for" something doesn't mean it will actually happen. An ideal situation for a politician is the situation where you can "call for" something in order to perpetually appeal to your base without having to actually live with the consequences - the dog can chase the car forever without catching it.

    The black leadership has been "studying" land reform in SA for almost as long as we have been "studying" immigration reform in the US. Even in this speech, Zuma mumbles some doubletalk about first doing a pre-colonial land audit of land use and occupation patterns, blah, blah. So when the traditional leaders ask next year where their free land that they were promised last year is, he can say that "the audit is currently in progress and will be done soon [never]. "

    This article gives you some idea of the political nuances:

    https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2017-03-03-parliament-zuma-calls-on-anc-to-unite-with-eff-to-change-the-constitution-on-land-issues/#

    Zuma is not stupid. I’m sure he’s smarter in many ways than most Western leaders (like those of Germany, Merkel’s PhD notwithstanding). He knows full well the consequences of such expropriation.

    However, those tribal leaders aren’t stupid either. They want those lands, and it’s getting progressively more difficult to contain them.

    Look, there’s been talk of such expropriation since the early days of this wonderful multicultural paradise. Zuma and his predecessors have resisted such pressures until now. This is the first time that a South African president has talked favorably of such a solution. There’s a limit to how much he can talk out of both sides of his mouth. Eventually he (or one of his successors) will have to bow to the pressure.

    SA is still a parliamentary democracy

    The purpose of the “land reform” would be to change this. Apparently some commenters here still cling to the belief that an independent judiciary can stop such things from happening.

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    • Replies: @Hibernian
    there is no such thing as an independent judiciary. Anywhere. There are independent legislatures in a few places, but not judiciaries.
  69. @eD
    Wikipedia page on the last South African local elections:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_municipal_elections,_2016

    Agree this is a desperation move by the ANC. It is in danger of being implemented only if they wind up in a coalition with the Economic Freedom Fighters after the next national elections. Even then, South Africa has a bill of rights and an independent judiciary.

    South Africa has a bill of rights and an independent judiciary

    Ha! That’s a good one!

    I guess that even if the combined forces of the bill of rights and the independent judiciary prove insufficient to stop Zuma, calling him a bad person in the Guardian might still do the trick.

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  70. @reiner Tor
    Zuma is not stupid. I'm sure he's smarter in many ways than most Western leaders (like those of Germany, Merkel's PhD notwithstanding). He knows full well the consequences of such expropriation.

    However, those tribal leaders aren't stupid either. They want those lands, and it's getting progressively more difficult to contain them.

    Look, there's been talk of such expropriation since the early days of this wonderful multicultural paradise. Zuma and his predecessors have resisted such pressures until now. This is the first time that a South African president has talked favorably of such a solution. There's a limit to how much he can talk out of both sides of his mouth. Eventually he (or one of his successors) will have to bow to the pressure.

    SA is still a parliamentary democracy
     
    The purpose of the "land reform" would be to change this. Apparently some commenters here still cling to the belief that an independent judiciary can stop such things from happening.

    there is no such thing as an independent judiciary. Anywhere. There are independent legislatures in a few places, but not judiciaries.

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  71. “J.A. Hobson and V.I. Lenin wrote their separate books Imperialism inspired by South Africa.”

    Interesting. Apparently Hobson in addition to Lenin also influenced Nehru.

    Ghandi also developed his ideas while in South Africa. He however was influenced by Tolstoi. Tolstoi influenced Gordon who was the father of Kibbutzim movement as well as Wittgenstein who as the result of reading Tolstoy Christian stories during WWI repudiated his Tractatus and followed it with Investigations.

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  72. @SFG
    Yeah, I just thought maybe they could withdraw to a smaller, defensible part of the country, preferably with a coastline, and declare independence.

    BTW, this is exactly how I feel about Israel. They should have given the Palestinians their scrap of land, built the wall there, and called it quits. But they had to get greedy, use them as cheap labor, and keep grabbing land in settlements. Now they're going to be forced into a one-state solution where they'll eventually be outnumbered and then killed.

    Am slowly reading through a number of books on the Afrikaners at the moment. The fact is that they’ve been greedy from the time of the Great Trek onward: even in the early 19th Century there were voices warning that they were destroying any hope of their own nation-state by setting out to grab land with little agricultural value and lots of angry natives. And, given the problems with rinderpest, sleeping sickness, and generally poor soil quality that you get in Southern Africa once you leave the temperate area of the Cape, the Boers might even have pulled out. But then the gold and diamonds were found, and the rest, as they say, was history. The resource curse struck, and stuck.

    Israel has no such excuse, which makes their political malpractice even more amazing. It’s frankly amazing that most Palestinians even want a two-state solution at this point! The moment they don’t, there’s a good likelihood that Israel will have sealed her own fate.

    But then again, assuming no right of return, an improved Jewish birth rate (among the ultra-religious, no less) may now mean that the Palestinians will never actually outnumber the Israelis within Greater Israel. Nothing like the 10-to-1 situation faced by South African whites, who also had many more 5th-columnists to contend with among the 1. The Afrikaners frankly seem like a people who’ve had the fight knocked out of them; the Zionists may yet prove willing to shoot their way out of the mess they’ve blundered into.

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    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    " And, given the problems with rinderpest, sleeping sickness, and generally poor soil quality that you get in Southern Africa once you leave the temperate area of the Cape, the Boers might even have pulled out."

    See this is what gets me. I totally understand (at least conceptually) attachment to land your ancestors may have killed and been killed upon. What they gave their lives for.

    But it still isn't really worth it. The Afrikaners of today are that because 300 or so years ago, their ancestors had no other options and made the best of what they had.

    But if you went back in time, and offered them a boat right back to the Netherlands and some way of supporting themselves there, I imagine 99 out of a 100 would have taken it.

    It might be the eventual dissolution of them as a people, with them being dispersed to the winds. But stay and fight. Then what? Another 300 years or so and you still have "rinderpest, sleeping sickness, and generally poor soil quality."

    What you are fighting for - has to be worth fighting for. England, Ireland, or the like is one thing. This is totally another.

    I get people in Singapore took a disease ridden swamp and made a shiny city state. But dealing with Malays despite the odd massacre or pogrom is an order of magnitude easier to my mind.

    Not worth it. I hope these guys get the option to leave (and never look back; I know I wouldn't).
    , @Big Bill
    The best thing for the Israelis would be to convert the world to ethnic cleansing (or for Europe to convert itself).

    Once ethnic cleansing + population exchanges are again popular as an ethnic solution, the Israelis will be free to take sterner measures.
  73. South Africa is an oddly influential place.

    South Africa *used to be* an oddly influential place. FIFY.

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  74. @Lot
    Foreign aid is a drop in the bucket for African economies, which are dominated by agricultural and resource extraction. The long natural resource boom that began in the late 1990s has led to continuous and high levels of economic growth in Africa, which has been used for the most part to support higher populations. Cheap Asian manufactured goods and cell phone tech has also led to large improvements in living standards even with higher populations.

    The gradual diffusion of Western ag tech plus the end of US and USSR funded proxy wars has also improved African economies.

    While we should end aid to Africa, its impact will be negligible. The image some have of Africans living near starvation from 80s Ethiopia and 90s Somalia is just not accurate for 95% of SSA. Islam's border in Africa, like it is everywhere, is bloody, and Congo is still dysfunctional, but otherwise Africa is more peaceful now than in the past 50 years.

    Utter nonsense. Such economic statistics as come out of Africa are free flights of fantasy. There was no resource boom before 2003 or after 2012. A cell phone by itself doesn’t change anyone’s standard of living. Africans are no further from starvation now than previously.

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  75. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    OT but a topic that is right up your alley, Steve.

    It looks like the UK is going to get much smaller in the next few decades. NI elwctions show a Catholic majority is inevitable, leading to reunification with the Republic. Scottish 2nd indy referendum would likely now succees in divorce.

    Would be Great Britain of just England and Wales.

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  76. Mugabe is an interesting piece of work. He has a slew of honorary degrees from American universities including Michigan State University as recently as 1990. The white cultural marxists who run academe love the black Africans who murder Dutch farmers. Hey, a little racial revenge why not? We just finished 8 years under our own Robert Mugabe, BHO.

    See; http://fosterspeak.blogspot.com/2016/10/from-moral-blackmail-to-political.html

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  77. @Almost Missouri

    Mr Zuma, 74, who made the remarks in a speech yesterday/FRI morning, said he wanted to establish a “pre-colonial land audit of land use and occupation patterns”
     
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the Bantu settlers in South Africa themselves colonists on what used to be San territory? And aren't Bantu colonists of even more recent vintage than the Boer colonists?

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the Bantu settlers in South Africa themselves colonists on what used to be San territory? And aren’t Bantu colonists of even more recent vintage than the Boer colonists?

    Wikipedia says that you are correct. fwiw — “When the early Portuguese sailors (cf. Vasco Da Gama and Bartholomew Dias) rounded the Cape of Good Hope in the 15th century very few Bantu speakers were found there. The predominant indigenous population around the Cape was made up of Khoisan peoples.”

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  78. @Buffalo Joe
    Twinkie, When I hear about Zuma and SA and Mugbe and Zimbabwe I think of the movie "District 9", and both countries are an alien invasion away from living that scenario.

    What I loved about “District 9″ was the way in which it worked as an allegory of two different things at the same time. What I hated about the people who reviewed it in Europe and North America was the fact that they inevitably only saw the one, the one they were familiar with (apartheid), and invariably seemed to have no awareness of the other (black South Africans’ murderous hatred of illegal immigrants from the rest of Africa).

    Moreover, they seemed not to appreciate the fact that the allegory wasn’t really soft-pedaled: the aliens were addicted to cat food, lived like animals, and frequently ripped people apart or beat them to death. A few of them were sympathetic, sure, and the social critique of the inhuman system to which they were subjected was entirely warranted, but Blomkamp (unlike, say, James Cameron) felt no need to make them either sexy or saints. Even worse were the Nigerian gangsters, all presented as murderous psychopaths. “District 9″ is a movie that still holds up.

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    MJMD, Excellent movie review, I give you four stars.
    , @Anonymous
    I loved District 9, and I definitely perceived what you are talking about when I saw it. But I'm an American who had followed South Africa for awhile, with a curious eye.
  79. @Ganderson
    Any Boers on this thread? Will the Afrikaners fight back, or have they become "Swedishized"?

    Their youth have devolved into flip-flop wearing SoCal beach boy imitations from what I saw there.

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    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    L Woods,

    I understand that the reason the white South Africans gave up apartheid was that they wanted to participate in international sports.

    Stupidity knows no bounds!
  80. @SFG
    Yeah, I just thought maybe they could withdraw to a smaller, defensible part of the country, preferably with a coastline, and declare independence.

    BTW, this is exactly how I feel about Israel. They should have given the Palestinians their scrap of land, built the wall there, and called it quits. But they had to get greedy, use them as cheap labor, and keep grabbing land in settlements. Now they're going to be forced into a one-state solution where they'll eventually be outnumbered and then killed.

    I expect you will get a rebuttal insisting that the situations are completely different, but I tend to agree with you.

    One counter-argument is that the non-Jewish population will never exceed 50%, and therefore the Jews will always be in control. But no democracy actually works that way on an up/down 50% vote, at least not for very long. That doesn’t spell the end of Israel but it does point to a more secular Israel.

    Having said that, the population disparity in South Africa is so huge (whites at 8.5%, Asians at 2.5%) that I expect land reform is the wave of the future and most of the whites and Asians will not be there in a few decades.

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    • Replies: @Y
    This argument is well known, but it does indeed miss a few important differences:

    A. The UN and other states recognize Israel only in part of the territory, where Jews have a stable majority. Withdrawal is always an option, albeit one that Israel is reluctant to do for good reasons. It can be argued that Israel has already implemented withdrawal in Gaza and areas of the WB (Afrikaners tried to get into such a situation, but their Bantustan program failed).

    B. The population ratio is at worst 50-50 (if we consider the entire area), and it isn't clear which side has the higher population growth right now. (SA had about 10-90, and actually blocked European migration post WW2).

    C. There are some practical roadblocks to one-state. To even begin to get there, any would-be Palestinian leadership supporting one-state would have to:

    1. Explain to lots of angry, conspiracy-minded Islamists why they are talking about giving up 'Islamic holy land' for Israel and somehow manage to survive it ("But we'll take over from the inside!" - they don't trust the leadership anyway, and consider the entire idea a humiliation).

    2. Give up entirely on settlements ("We want one state and equals rights" and "some people of some religion/nationality don't have the right to live in some areas" aren't really compatible).

    3. Give up their personal perks and titles (can't have two states on same territory if arguing for one state. At the very least, the Palestinian Authority would have to be dismantled).

    4. Find a way to convince the world to force Israel to annex the territory (would this have any precedent at all?), after decades where they argued Israel has no rights to the territory.

    All of these things hurt, and still, it isn't clear this will work at all. The ANC had much easier time deciding on strategy...
  81. 100 trillion dollar bill. Might be some issues with transactions due to only having ten digits on our hands. Counting back change… you only thought that mass confusion ran rampant during Father’s Day in east Oakland.

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  82. @PapayaSF
    My fantasy: Trump halts all refugee programs to reconsider them, then restarts them with new rules that make the programs work to the benefit of the US. That means we accept white South Africans, and Europeans fleeing Islam, but no Muslims or poor South Americans.

    It would be funny to see the MSM/Democrat reaction, given that they've already turned up the anti-Trump frenzy to 11.

    And he could really send them over the collective edge by granting Puerto Rico independence. How glorious would that be?

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  83. Steve, I lived in SA a while back and was not shielded from reality at any socioeconomic level. I was personal friends with members of the elite of the socioeconomic elite and had meaningful and personal conversations with ‘the help’ (and lower) as well.

    I knew a gun runner and a constitution writer among other people of influence as well.

    I found the place uniquely fascinating and I could offer some insights but I’m not sure that I understand what you mean about it being so influential.

    I appreciate your insights and wish you could elaborate on your thoughts. I personally found the place to be a white island abroad and I’m not sure that the South African Homelanders or Diaspora necessarily spends its wealth in tandem.

    Could you elaborate on your thoughts?

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  84. @Dan Hayes
    Nota,

    Regarding your statement that 80% of the people who want to let in middle eastern refugees would object to [white] South Africans. This has already happened in Ireland where their immigration laws were tightened up to prevent white South Africans from claiming earlier kinship citizenship. This is par for the course in Ireland and would be in most of Western Europe.

    Yeah, that’s what I figured.

    Any chance Trump could let some in? They’re going to be killed eventually, and I don’t know where else you’d get immigrants of European origin from. Most Europeans like their welfare states and don’t want to come here.

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  85. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    If Afrikaners decide to go to war, it may be because they’ve got a shrewd eye on the world’s current political landscape. This time, no other government may bother to send military assistance to help the blacks in their little attempt to grab land if it breaks out into a war. Trump with his political attitudes isn’t going to be sending military assistance to the ANC, and Europe’s current drift is more conservative. I really doubt Russia with help the ANC, and though Germany might send assistance, Merkel’s current political ground is so shaky that she might not risk it. She’d really look bad to her own countrymen if she helped blacks slaughter a Germanic people, and her voters happened to compare this to what’s happening in their own country.

    So, if the Afrikaners go full boer and try to kick out the black government of South Africa and take over the country, they may be allowed to do so by outside powers. At this point, many outsiders with an eye on the economy of South Africa have realized that it was a massive economic mistake to let the blacks take over. South Africa was much more prosperous when whites ran the place. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was “allowed” to revert to the whites again.

    I can see it now. All across American campuses comes the call to go help fight those poor oppressed blacks in the South African Civil War against those dirty Afrikaners (ala the Spanish Civil War), and brave legions of militant leftist US college students trudge off to fight in the cause du jour–only to die. *Fingers crossed*

    We could afford to lose some of our more militant idiots.

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  86. @Detective Club
    "District 9" is a fantastic movie. You see what happens when Earth Privilege raises its ugly head against interplanetary migrants who are just doing the jobs that homo sapiens won't do :

    https://youtu.be/X1FQnlocz_w

    Detective, Just Google “District 9″ is a racist movie and read the comments by Africans , enlightening, Nigerians bashing Kenyans, bashing Congolese etc.

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  87. @German_reader
    I actually somewhat hope this happens, it might negatively affect the image of African blacks in the West and make it easier to keep them out of Europe.
    In retrospect the Afrikaners were probably wrong to hand over power the way they did in the early 1990s.

    I don’t even think other Black African countries would be inclined or able to offer much support as they did during Apartheid. SA blacks have harmed relations with other African countries due to their xenophobia.

    I personally think the Afrikaners would win a war out right.

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    • Replies: @snorlax
    The blacks would get military aid from lefty European countries, and maybe China or Russia if they thought they could take over the mines.

    The SA military and police are nowadays almost entirely black (and dramatically expanded since the apartheid days — the ANC aren't stupid), and the remaining whites are either elderly or thoroughly brainwashed about the Evils of Racism. The time when they could win a civil war is almost certainly past.

  88. @Lot
    Foreign aid is a drop in the bucket for African economies, which are dominated by agricultural and resource extraction. The long natural resource boom that began in the late 1990s has led to continuous and high levels of economic growth in Africa, which has been used for the most part to support higher populations. Cheap Asian manufactured goods and cell phone tech has also led to large improvements in living standards even with higher populations.

    The gradual diffusion of Western ag tech plus the end of US and USSR funded proxy wars has also improved African economies.

    While we should end aid to Africa, its impact will be negligible. The image some have of Africans living near starvation from 80s Ethiopia and 90s Somalia is just not accurate for 95% of SSA. Islam's border in Africa, like it is everywhere, is bloody, and Congo is still dysfunctional, but otherwise Africa is more peaceful now than in the past 50 years.

    Lot, I understand resource extraction as a revenue stream for some African nations, gold, oil, cobalt etc., but I don’t think agri. goods are exported in any significant amounts.

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    • Replies: @IBC
    Joe, Africa is number one in cocoa bean production (no double meaning intended). Ivory Coast is the top producer. Modernizing agriculture would probably make Africa a big exporter of food, but it could displace huge numbers of people as well. That's the question that many African countries are currently facing. In some ways, the problem is analogous to what's happening in parts of the US. Mechanization makes farming very efficient, but it doesn't directly employ that many people.
    , @Lot
    Agri is a big part of the African economy even if it isn't a huge exporter. Gains in African ag have mostly gone into feeding a rapidly growing population.
    , @Anonymous Nephew
    A lot of expensive, out of season UK supermarket stuff (green beans and even flowers) comes from places like Kenya, and in West Africa European farming companies have some pretty big farms/plantations.
  89. @res
    OT: Has Uber pissed someone powerful off? The establishment seems to be in full takedown mode. The latest: http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/03/uber-used-secret-program-evade-law-enforcement-report-claims

    I work in tech. Their CEO, Travis Kalanick, was considered too slow to condemn Trump’s “Muslim ban,” so now, comrade, he must be made an example of for his (suspected) thoughtcrime and overall white maleness. Uber delenda est.

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    • Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist
    This country is fracturing not only along the lines that people have already discussed, but along the lines of businesses caught in taking sides for teams Red and Blue. Of course, its always been there- with defense and oil as Red, soft tech as blue, and ag enjoying both, but there's a new level to this. It's no longer broad brush sectors- it's coming down to cake bakers, car drivers, shoe companies.

    The de-homogenizing of America is being followed by the geographic and ideological sorting in business. I see an accelerated moving around of people and economy beyond what has been typical. Business will feel more heat than ever to get in where they fit in, which could produce some really asymmetrical economic patterns.

    We could see in thirty years a new regionalism that is as easily as pronounced as pre-Civil War days. If culture critics have been railing against bland McAmerica, they didn't need to worry-they could get all the diversity they want pretty soon.

    On the other hand, the Jacbin demand for uniformity in the SWPL/SJW culture could be a counterbalance. That's the struggle playing out now.

  90. @Jack D
    Seriously, no. Way too late now. Maybe in 1948 when the National Party gained power they could have divided the baby in half India/Pakistan style but instead they were greedy and went for all or nothing. You'll note that one of those two possibilities is nothing.

    Seriously, no. Way too late now. Maybe in 1948 when the National Party gained power they could have divided the baby in half India/Pakistan style but instead they were greedy and went for all or nothing. You’ll note that one of those two possibilities is nothing.

    Yeah, that’s what I’ve always said. I have a lot of sympathy for the Afrikaners, but they missed their big opportunity back in the ’40s.

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  91. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    In the video, I like how the two white guys in the back have their cell phones out to film the brawl before it even gets going. The translator is the funniest guy of all. I can’t tell if he’s signalling, “Now kiddies, play nice,” or “Hit harder!”

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  92. “pre-colonial land audit of land use and occupation patterns

    Occupation Patern #1: The White Boar or Rino Huntsman (Tip of the Spear of Community Organizing)

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  93. @Ed
    I don't even think other Black African countries would be inclined or able to offer much support as they did during Apartheid. SA blacks have harmed relations with other African countries due to their xenophobia.

    I personally think the Afrikaners would win a war out right.

    The blacks would get military aid from lefty European countries, and maybe China or Russia if they thought they could take over the mines.

    The SA military and police are nowadays almost entirely black (and dramatically expanded since the apartheid days — the ANC aren’t stupid), and the remaining whites are either elderly or thoroughly brainwashed about the Evils of Racism. The time when they could win a civil war is almost certainly past.

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  94. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    I fully support Zuma.

    Send all whites back to Europe.

    Europe should send Africans back to Africa.

    Japan should send US military out of Okinawa, and S Korea should follow suit.

    US should send Mexican illegals back to Mexico.

    Israel should Arabs in Israel to West Bank, and Palestinians in West Bank should send Jews there back to Israel.

    And Australia needs to send back all the Chinese, Indians, and Africans.

    Go Zuma. Lead the way.

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  95. http://vho.org/tr/2003/4/Butz412-415.html

    Interesting example on semantics or almost obtuse inference.

    Strakosch was a jew and it is clear the reason he was appointed to Rothschilds’ Economist chair, funded Churchill and was a part of the mining operations when Rothschild tried to consolidate mining in South Africa under its agent, Cecil Rhodes – detailed extensively in Harvard historian Niall Ferguson’s book ‘Empire’ – was the he was a jew.

    To say he was not a jew, merely because he converted, like the author writes himself many jews did merely out of convenience in Germanic nations, is ridiculous.

    It explains what motivated Churchill and Strakosch and why Churchill turned down Hitler’s olive branch at Dunkirk more than his disagreement with Hitler over monetary policy.

    Thanks for that piece of the puzzle Steve.

    At its highest point, Cecil Rhodes owned at most 25% of De Beers diamond monopoly which is detailed in Ferguson’s book. He was merely an agent and wrote that in his letters to Rothschild.

    Ferguson has an odd habit of presenting very interesting facts about jewish history in Europe in his books and then passing over them in obtuseness, much like the above article writer.

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  96. South Africa will be ignored in the international media. Much like Zimbabwe. Because it is a reminder of human biodiversity and non-white ethnic tribalism.

    The only people allowed to practice tribalism are non-whites, but the whites must never realise this!

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  97. @res
    OT: Has Uber pissed someone powerful off? The establishment seems to be in full takedown mode. The latest: http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/03/uber-used-secret-program-evade-law-enforcement-report-claims

    “pre-colonial land audit of land use and occupation patterns

    Occupation Patern #1: The White Boar or Rino Huntsman (Tip of the Spear of Community Organizing)

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  98. Those white owned farms in South Africa, just another case of magic dirt. Of course black will be able to farm and produce, just like they do in Zimbabwe.

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  99. @MadDog
    It's different. Americans want less immigrants but they don't make their lives difficult which would encourage them to leave. Black Africans already make life dangerous for whites. But no one will take the whites as refugees. This rhetoric solely encourages blacks to attack whites. It encourages the rapes, maiming and murder of whites.

    But no one will take the whites as refugees.

    That’s not quite true. Countries with point systems will take qualified people in as immigrants. Canada, Australia and Singapore, for instance. For the rest, Latin American countries generally have no issues with white immigrants of whatever ability. South Africans get visa-free entry to a good chunk of the world. In extremis, they can simply travel there as tourists and make the usual, fairly universal commercial arrangements to stay (fake marriages, no-show employment with a local in exchange for a bribe and so on) that lard up immigrant numbers the world over. A lot of South Africans have grandparents from EU countries and can qualify for EU permanent residency and eventual citizenship. The upshot is that they shouldn’t have too many problems moving to another country.

    Having said that, if the property seizures do materialize, they will have to move with little more than the clothes on their backs. They should heed the forewarnings they are getting from these discussions. Better to sell before it’s taken away without compensation. South Africa is about to become a giant Bantustan. Why stick around for the denouement?

    The transition to non-English/non-Afrikaans speaking environments will be wrenching, in addition to the cultural adaptations necessary. However, the alternative is what happened to white Rhodesians after Mugabe took over – the death of hope, amidst an inexorable dread of complete dispossession, that came to pass in slow motion.

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  100. @Lot
    Foreign aid is a drop in the bucket for African economies, which are dominated by agricultural and resource extraction. The long natural resource boom that began in the late 1990s has led to continuous and high levels of economic growth in Africa, which has been used for the most part to support higher populations. Cheap Asian manufactured goods and cell phone tech has also led to large improvements in living standards even with higher populations.

    The gradual diffusion of Western ag tech plus the end of US and USSR funded proxy wars has also improved African economies.

    While we should end aid to Africa, its impact will be negligible. The image some have of Africans living near starvation from 80s Ethiopia and 90s Somalia is just not accurate for 95% of SSA. Islam's border in Africa, like it is everywhere, is bloody, and Congo is still dysfunctional, but otherwise Africa is more peaceful now than in the past 50 years.

    Islam’s border in Africa, like it is everywhere, is bloody, and Congo is still dysfunctional, but otherwise Africa is more peaceful now than in the past 50 years.

    “Islam’s border” takes you all the way down to the equator. Congo, Zimbabwe and South Africa cover half of the rest. What’s left then, that’s “peaceful”?

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    • LOL: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @snorlax
    Kenya, Ghana and De Beers-run colony Botswana seem to be the (relatively) least screwed-up countries in SSA.
  101. South Africa is an oddly influential place.

    Sure, it is.
    Walt and Mersheimer got in trouble for writing a whole book on that subject.

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  102. @Rob McX

    Now, you might think this was not a wise policy, what with the subsequent inflation and the government of Zimbabwe having to print up 100,00,000,000,000 dollar bills.
     
    Mugabe must be glad the Arabs introduced the zero to Africa. Where would he be without it?

    When did Arab, what? A sidebar: Saladin was a Kurd and al-Khwarizmi was a Persian. Also, zero wasn’t discovered anywhere near an oasis!

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  103. Is Ilana Mercer, going nuts over this? Dan Roodt?

    I follow several alt-right white South Africans. They aren’t even mentioning this, which makes me suspect this is just another posturing move in a long series of such posturing moves.

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  104. @SFG
    Yeah, I just thought maybe they could withdraw to a smaller, defensible part of the country, preferably with a coastline, and declare independence.

    BTW, this is exactly how I feel about Israel. They should have given the Palestinians their scrap of land, built the wall there, and called it quits. But they had to get greedy, use them as cheap labor, and keep grabbing land in settlements. Now they're going to be forced into a one-state solution where they'll eventually be outnumbered and then killed.

    BTW, this is exactly how I feel about Israel. They should have given the Palestinians their scrap of land, built the wall there, and called it quits. But they had to get greedy, use them as cheap labor, and keep grabbing land in settlements. Now they’re going to be forced into a one-state solution where they’ll eventually be outnumbered and then killed.

    If Israel ever loses its will to keep the West Bank and Gaza Arabs subdued and politically neutralized, it won’t have the will to defend even a rump Jewish state confined to the Mediterranean shore.

    The long-term outlook there is a wholesale expulsion of the Arabs. It’s only a matter of time because every new generation of Jews there is more religious and immune to the suicidal tendencies of the West. Israel’s combat officers are already majority-religious-nationalist. Don’t let the likes of Thomas Friedman and Richard Cohen give you the wrong idea; the meduan Israeli now doesn’t give a rip about the Palestinians’ sorry asses.

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    The long-term outlook there is a wholesale expulsion of the Arabs. It’s only a matter of time because every new generation of Jews there is more religious and immune to the suicidal tendencies of the West. Israel’s combat officers are already majority-religious-nationalist.
     
    IJ, i tend to think there's a good likelihood of that as well.

    But is the demographic future of Israel actually trending more not to "religious nationalist" but to these ultra-Orthodox loons, who have great big ass families ... but the "men"--if you can call them that--just sit around and study the Torah all day on welfare from everyone else and have an exemption from military service. When you're most philogenitive group are parasites, that doesn't seem to bode real well.
    , @Spmoore8
    I've been hearing about this "wholesale expulsion" for a long time, even longer than I've been hearing about the wholesale expulsion of our illegal immigrants.

    However, I don't think it will happen. First, you need a Hitler or Stalin type to do it, second, it would be impossible to defend by either the US, Europe or 99% of American Jews, and third, it would simply contribute to more Israeli isolation. So I think we will just continue with the status quo, until we don't. Sort of like the Soviet Union.
    , @Johann Ricke

    The long-term outlook there is a wholesale expulsion of the Arabs. It’s only a matter of time because every new generation of Jews there is more religious and immune to the suicidal tendencies of the West.
     
    There was a time when Arab countries seemed ready to absorb the Palestinian population. Then came Black September in Jordan. Followed by the Palestinian role in kicking off Lebanon's civil war. And the Palestinian role in Saddam's occupation of Kuwait. In Syria, Palestinians have been a significant part of the rebels fighting against Assad aka the leader of the Alawite apostate regime. Is there a single Arab country that looks forward to a destabilizing wave of fifth columnist Palestinian refugees?
  105. @MJMD
    Am slowly reading through a number of books on the Afrikaners at the moment. The fact is that they've been greedy from the time of the Great Trek onward: even in the early 19th Century there were voices warning that they were destroying any hope of their own nation-state by setting out to grab land with little agricultural value and lots of angry natives. And, given the problems with rinderpest, sleeping sickness, and generally poor soil quality that you get in Southern Africa once you leave the temperate area of the Cape, the Boers might even have pulled out. But then the gold and diamonds were found, and the rest, as they say, was history. The resource curse struck, and stuck.

    Israel has no such excuse, which makes their political malpractice even more amazing. It's frankly amazing that most Palestinians even want a two-state solution at this point! The moment they don't, there's a good likelihood that Israel will have sealed her own fate.

    But then again, assuming no right of return, an improved Jewish birth rate (among the ultra-religious, no less) may now mean that the Palestinians will never actually outnumber the Israelis within Greater Israel. Nothing like the 10-to-1 situation faced by South African whites, who also had many more 5th-columnists to contend with among the 1. The Afrikaners frankly seem like a people who've had the fight knocked out of them; the Zionists may yet prove willing to shoot their way out of the mess they've blundered into.

    ” And, given the problems with rinderpest, sleeping sickness, and generally poor soil quality that you get in Southern Africa once you leave the temperate area of the Cape, the Boers might even have pulled out.”

    See this is what gets me. I totally understand (at least conceptually) attachment to land your ancestors may have killed and been killed upon. What they gave their lives for.

    But it still isn’t really worth it. The Afrikaners of today are that because 300 or so years ago, their ancestors had no other options and made the best of what they had.

    But if you went back in time, and offered them a boat right back to the Netherlands and some way of supporting themselves there, I imagine 99 out of a 100 would have taken it.

    It might be the eventual dissolution of them as a people, with them being dispersed to the winds. But stay and fight. Then what? Another 300 years or so and you still have “rinderpest, sleeping sickness, and generally poor soil quality.”

    What you are fighting for – has to be worth fighting for. England, Ireland, or the like is one thing. This is totally another.

    I get people in Singapore took a disease ridden swamp and made a shiny city state. But dealing with Malays despite the odd massacre or pogrom is an order of magnitude easier to my mind.

    Not worth it. I hope these guys get the option to leave (and never look back; I know I wouldn’t).

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  106. @Jack D
    While the speech is a troubling window into Zuma's mind, "calling for" expropriation before a favorable audience of traditional leaders and actually implementing it are two different things. SA is still a parliamentary democracy so just like in the US, just because the President "calls for" something doesn't mean it will actually happen. An ideal situation for a politician is the situation where you can "call for" something in order to perpetually appeal to your base without having to actually live with the consequences - the dog can chase the car forever without catching it.

    The black leadership has been "studying" land reform in SA for almost as long as we have been "studying" immigration reform in the US. Even in this speech, Zuma mumbles some doubletalk about first doing a pre-colonial land audit of land use and occupation patterns, blah, blah. So when the traditional leaders ask next year where their free land that they were promised last year is, he can say that "the audit is currently in progress and will be done soon [never]. "

    This article gives you some idea of the political nuances:

    https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2017-03-03-parliament-zuma-calls-on-anc-to-unite-with-eff-to-change-the-constitution-on-land-issues/#

    a pre-colonial land audit

    In that case, why are they letting themselves be oppressed by the White Man’s soulless, artificial national borders? I say the ANC should redistribute all the land in Africa to whoever they like, all the way to the Nile.

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  107. @TelfoedJohn
    Taking in white South Africans would be an interesting experience. Personally, I'm not a fan of the white South African personality.. they are brash, loud, aggressive etc. Rather like Israelis - perhaps for the same reasons - living in a difficult neighbourhood.

    Australian reactions to South Africans: http://www.saaustralia.org/topic/43980-south-african-stereotypes/

    In Australia, only a small amount of South Africans are Dutch-descent Afrikaners. Where would they go? 'Back' to support Geert Wilders?

    Where would they go? ‘Back’ to support Geert Wilders?

    Texas. Those boys don’t mind the heat and dust, and they can ride and shoot pretty good.
    Texans would just have to get used to their weird versions of football and baseball, of course.

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  108. @candid_observer
    OT, but Trump is now accusing Obama of having Trump Tower wire-tapped before the election.

    Here's where all the leaking and other mischief by the Deep State comes back to haunt it.

    How can the Deep State apparatus -- and Obama at its top -- convincingly claim that this sort of nefarious thing wasn't going on? They can assert of course that it would be against the law for the President to do so -- Ben Rhodes has produced this lame excuse -- but, given the massive number of illegal leaks the Deep State has engaged in since Trump came on the scene, how can they pretend that the law operates as any constraint on them and their activities? Their own lawless actions -- celebrated of course by the media and the left to date -- have conferred tremendous plausibility on Trump's claims.

    Will the Deep State ever realize how its attempts at sabotage can backfire? How does it get a reputation for integrity back when it needs it?

    Will the Deep State ever realize how its attempts at sabotage can backfire? How does it get a reputation for integrity back when it needs it?

    If, and it’s a big if, the coup against Trump backfires, the DS will sacrifice a few pawns as ‘rogue actors’ and resume business as usual. We’re at the 15th iteration of the Russia story and they’ve shown no signs of stopping. At best half of Trump’s supporters think the DS is running a coup against him, and all of Hilary’s supporters are buying it lock stock and barrel.

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  109. @International Jew

    BTW, this is exactly how I feel about Israel. They should have given the Palestinians their scrap of land, built the wall there, and called it quits. But they had to get greedy, use them as cheap labor, and keep grabbing land in settlements. Now they’re going to be forced into a one-state solution where they’ll eventually be outnumbered and then killed.
     
    If Israel ever loses its will to keep the West Bank and Gaza Arabs subdued and politically neutralized, it won't have the will to defend even a rump Jewish state confined to the Mediterranean shore.

    The long-term outlook there is a wholesale expulsion of the Arabs. It's only a matter of time because every new generation of Jews there is more religious and immune to the suicidal tendencies of the West. Israel's combat officers are already majority-religious-nationalist. Don't let the likes of Thomas Friedman and Richard Cohen give you the wrong idea; the meduan Israeli now doesn't give a rip about the Palestinians' sorry asses.

    The long-term outlook there is a wholesale expulsion of the Arabs. It’s only a matter of time because every new generation of Jews there is more religious and immune to the suicidal tendencies of the West. Israel’s combat officers are already majority-religious-nationalist.

    IJ, i tend to think there’s a good likelihood of that as well.

    But is the demographic future of Israel actually trending more not to “religious nationalist” but to these ultra-Orthodox loons, who have great big ass families … but the “men”–if you can call them that–just sit around and study the Torah all day on welfare from everyone else and have an exemption from military service. When you’re most philogenitive group are parasites, that doesn’t seem to bode real well.

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    • Replies: @NOTA
    Can't they change the law to include them in conscription?
    , @No Man's Sky
    They refuse to serve in the military because Israel is a secular state. When Israel becomes a theocracy run by rabbis that inhibition will disappear and they will eagerly enlist.
  110. @Rob McX
    Unfortunately, this is probably what's coming down the line: blacks grab white land and resources in SA, fail to exploit them and run them into the ground. Next, the country gets even poorer and more violent as Africans compete for the ever-dwindling resources left behind after the mass dispossession of whites. Then more and more of them join the mass exodus to Europe as a last attempt to avoid starvation or being killed. Short version: Whitey always has to pay in the end.

    Of course foreign aid should be cut off, but first white countries need to close the "send us aid or we'll come to your country" blackmail loophole.

    Of course, Zuma’s proposal is foolish and illegal. But let’s honestly look at why he is making this play by breaking down your statement.

    “Unfortunately, this is probably what’s coming down the line: blacks grab white land and resources in SA, fail to exploit them and run them into the ground.”

    Well, white Europeans had been responsible for the conditions of blacks in South Africa, having invaded their land, taking control of the resources, and imposing Apartheid. Although, to be fair, Whitey did provide the Darkies with roads and indoor plumbing–you know, “civilization”–so I suppose the Darkies ought not be too upset when they were violently taken over.

    “Next, the country gets even poorer and more violent as Africans compete for the ever-dwindling resources left behind after the mass dispossession of whites.”

    Well, there had been rival tribal groups who vied for control of South Africa before the Europeans came. Then the Europeans kept these groups from gaining political power, so those groups worked together toward a common cause. Now, those same factions are at it again, supposedly looking out for the interests of the nation.

    “Then more and more of them join the mass exodus to Europe as a last attempt to avoid starvation or being killed. Short version: Whitey always has to pay in the end.”

    Indeed, what a shame. The toll on Whitey is immense. What I think should happen is that white people, since they invaded the country, should leave to avoid future problems. It’s not their homeland…Europe is. Whitey should be repatriated or deported. Hey, don’t blame me, I’m just using the same argument being made by some on the Alt-Right who call for non-whites, legal or illegal, to voluntarily vamoose because they are not “true” Americans. Propositional nation, what a farce!

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    • Replies: @Big Bill
    I like the cut of your jib, Corvinius! You have gotten past the biggest moral hump and recognize that ethnic cleansing is a live option. But by focusing on your preferred option you miss a host of other opportunities.

    There's outright extermination (I'm thinking Hutu/Tutsi style machete slaughter: cheap, low cost).

    There's also a "two [or 3,or 4]state solution" with big walls (a la Israel).

    Possibly an underground homegrown insurrection (I'm thinking of the underground bomb/machine gun/bullet factories in Israel leading up to the 1948 war).

    Then there's population exchanges: swap the 2-3 million horny Muslim and African dudes that have arrived in Europe in the last couple years for a similar number of Boers. [although given the SA blacks hatred of Nigerian and Zimbabwean border jumpers, that might be a tough sell.]

    But MY favorite is a weaponized Crisper/CAS9 vector to destroy fertility without hurting anyone. With a few billion fewer people in Africa the flora and fauna would likely recover in a few decades.

    There are lots of ways to solve the problem other than ethnic cleansing. Now that you have made that moral leap, you should broaden your horizons and look outside the box. Welcome, and good luck!
    , @lavoisier
    Your idea has more merit than you realize. You believe that the dysfunction in Africa is the result of whitey. Perhaps it is, perhaps it is not.

    But if it is the problem, then black people taking full control of their lands, their resources, and their government should make things much better than the way they were when whitey was screwing everything up.

    Unfortunately, as you perhaps know all too well, things in Africa have gotten much, much worse since independence from whitey. In fact, many black people are calling for whitey to come back and re-colonize their lands. Eventually, perhaps, all the damage that has been caused by whitey will be overcome by the black people of Africa and we will see a flowering of civilization across the continent in the decades to come.

    I am open to that possibility, however remote it seems to me.

    Perhaps you should be open to the possibility that things will continue to deteriorate as whitey becomes extinct on the continent, and that the failings of these nations are not the fault of whitey. Perhaps you can even start thinking of black people as human beings, capable of working out their own destinies without the help of good white liberals such as yourself.

    But I am not holding my breath.
    , @Kyle McKenna
    Fun stuff, to be sure, but it's also worth mentioning that the land now comprising South Africa was nearly devoid of population when the first European settlers arrived. Too cold in the winter for nekked negroes.
    , @bored identity
    Corvinus echoes Commander in Chief Obamazuma's interpretation of Zulu Nation retcontribution to the World Civilization by blaksplaining facts of life to Dutch Thugs:



    " Somebody helped to create this unbelievable South African system that we have that allowed you to thrive.

    Somebody invested in roads and bridges.

    If you've got a business – you didn't build that.

    Somebody else made that happen.
    "

     

    Hungarian Gorilla Mindset ain't gonna work with this crowd, Corvinus.
  111. That piece of Zimbabwean currency is the the most depressingly fitting metaphor for present-day Africa – its value, 100 trillion dollars, written alongside an engraving of a couple of pieces of rock sitting on top of one another surrounded by what appear to be weeds.

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    • Replies: @Ex-Saffer
    Probably an evocation of the fabled Matopo Hills.
  112. @International Jew

    Islam’s border in Africa, like it is everywhere, is bloody, and Congo is still dysfunctional, but otherwise Africa is more peaceful now than in the past 50 years.
     
    "Islam's border" takes you all the way down to the equator. Congo, Zimbabwe and South Africa cover half of the rest. What's left then, that's "peaceful"?

    Kenya, Ghana and De Beers-run colony Botswana seem to be the (relatively) least screwed-up countries in SSA.

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    • Replies: @Flip
    Namibia doesn't sound too bad.
    , @Ed
    They're all ex-British colonies probably not coincidental.
    , @Hrw-500
    I heard Zambia isn't bad either since the 1990s. http://reason.com/archives/2017/02/28/in-praise-of-jurisdictional-competition
  113. OT. David Brooks may be on to something. Who would wish to trade old, boring white-bread Houston for this stunning display of energetic vibrancy.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4280842/Mom-says-girl-killed-satanic-ritual-missing-daughter.html

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  114. All this new talk of “populism”. Nobody is using my favorite term for people power: “grass roots”.

    “Populism” smacks of Huey Long, ignorant Southern white goy trash, Nazis and Jim Crow, doesn’t it?

    “Grass roots” sounds nice, like liberal college kids, eating granola, going to Progressive locavore meetings, signing petitions and stuff.

    I was curious when “populism” came back, so I went to Google Trends and compared the terms:

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=populism,grass%20roots

    Apparently the big push started November 6, 2016, right when Trump was elected.

    They really hate us, don’t they?

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    • Replies: @bored identity
    The road to hell is already paved with astroturf.

    Trump will have to bulldoze perimeter around the White House to clear the Nation's path for The Wall.
  115. Now it’s official.
    Don Lemon had to moonlight above and behind with some seriously high-positioned people to have his job:

    Comapared to this, even friggin’ Blintzer suddenly sounds like Cronkite.

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  116. Of course, Zuma’s proposal is foolish and illegal. But let’s honestly look at why he is making this play by breaking down your statement.

    Suuuure. Right after we look honestly at all the white racism throughout history.

    Well, white Europeans had been responsible for the conditions of blacks in South Africa, having invaded their land, taking control of the resources, and imposing Apartheid.

    You mean, like Jews did to Palestinians in Palestine.

    Although, to be fair, Whitey did provide the Darkies with roads and indoor plumbing–you know, “civilization”–so I suppose the Darkies ought not be too upset when they were violently taken over.

    Sort of like how the Jews did provide the ragheads in Israel with improvements – you know, “civilization” – so I suppose the ragheads ought not be too upset when they were violently taken over.

    “Then more and more of them join the mass exodus to Europe as a last attempt to avoid starvation or being killed. Short version: Whitey always has to pay in the end.”

    Indeed, what a shame. The toll on Whitey is immense. What I think should happen is that white people, since they invaded the country, should leave to avoid future problems. It’s not their homeland…Europe is. Whitey should be repatriated or deported. Hey, don’t blame me, I’m just using the same argument being made by some on the Alt-Right who call for non-whites, legal or illegal, to voluntarily vamoose because they are not “true” Americans. Propositional nation, what a farce!

    “Short version: Heimie always has to pay in the end.”

    Indeed, what a shame. The toll on Heimie is immense. What I think should happen is that Jews, since they invaded Palestine, should leave to avoid future problems. It’s not their homeland…Europe is. Heimie should be repatriated or deported. Hey, don’t blame me, I’m just using the same argument being made by Corvanus, who calls for colonialists to be expelled. Jewish state, what a farce!

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    • Replies: @anon

    You mean, like Jews did to Palestinians in Palestine.
     
    Or the Jordanians did to the Palestinians in Palestine , or the Turks did to the Cypriots in Cyprus , or the Turks did to the Kurds in Kurdistan , or Russia did to the Chechens in Chechnya , or Russia did to the Dagestanis in Dagestan , or Russia did to the Ukranians in Ukraine , or Russia did to the people of Kaliningrad in Kaliningrad , or China did to Tibeteans in Tibet , or China did to the people of Xinyang in Xinyang , or Indonesia did to the Papuans in Papua , Or Morocco did to the Western Saharans in Western Sahara or Sudan did to the Darfuris in Darfur &c. &c. &c. ..............wonder why you chose the example you did , random chance probably XD.
  117. @International Jew

    BTW, this is exactly how I feel about Israel. They should have given the Palestinians their scrap of land, built the wall there, and called it quits. But they had to get greedy, use them as cheap labor, and keep grabbing land in settlements. Now they’re going to be forced into a one-state solution where they’ll eventually be outnumbered and then killed.
     
    If Israel ever loses its will to keep the West Bank and Gaza Arabs subdued and politically neutralized, it won't have the will to defend even a rump Jewish state confined to the Mediterranean shore.

    The long-term outlook there is a wholesale expulsion of the Arabs. It's only a matter of time because every new generation of Jews there is more religious and immune to the suicidal tendencies of the West. Israel's combat officers are already majority-religious-nationalist. Don't let the likes of Thomas Friedman and Richard Cohen give you the wrong idea; the meduan Israeli now doesn't give a rip about the Palestinians' sorry asses.

    I’ve been hearing about this “wholesale expulsion” for a long time, even longer than I’ve been hearing about the wholesale expulsion of our illegal immigrants.

    However, I don’t think it will happen. First, you need a Hitler or Stalin type to do it, second, it would be impossible to defend by either the US, Europe or 99% of American Jews, and third, it would simply contribute to more Israeli isolation. So I think we will just continue with the status quo, until we don’t. Sort of like the Soviet Union.

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    • Replies: @snorlax
    It might happen if they get a decent justification — Egypt attacks again, 9/11-scale terror attack in Israel, greater-than-9/11-scale terror attack outside of Israel.
  118. @SPMoore8
    I expect you will get a rebuttal insisting that the situations are completely different, but I tend to agree with you.

    One counter-argument is that the non-Jewish population will never exceed 50%, and therefore the Jews will always be in control. But no democracy actually works that way on an up/down 50% vote, at least not for very long. That doesn't spell the end of Israel but it does point to a more secular Israel.

    Having said that, the population disparity in South Africa is so huge (whites at 8.5%, Asians at 2.5%) that I expect land reform is the wave of the future and most of the whites and Asians will not be there in a few decades.

    This argument is well known, but it does indeed miss a few important differences:

    A. The UN and other states recognize Israel only in part of the territory, where Jews have a stable majority. Withdrawal is always an option, albeit one that Israel is reluctant to do for good reasons. It can be argued that Israel has already implemented withdrawal in Gaza and areas of the WB (Afrikaners tried to get into such a situation, but their Bantustan program failed).

    B. The population ratio is at worst 50-50 (if we consider the entire area), and it isn’t clear which side has the higher population growth right now. (SA had about 10-90, and actually blocked European migration post WW2).

    C. There are some practical roadblocks to one-state. To even begin to get there, any would-be Palestinian leadership supporting one-state would have to:

    1. Explain to lots of angry, conspiracy-minded Islamists why they are talking about giving up ‘Islamic holy land’ for Israel and somehow manage to survive it (“But we’ll take over from the inside!” – they don’t trust the leadership anyway, and consider the entire idea a humiliation).

    2. Give up entirely on settlements (“We want one state and equals rights” and “some people of some religion/nationality don’t have the right to live in some areas” aren’t really compatible).

    3. Give up their personal perks and titles (can’t have two states on same territory if arguing for one state. At the very least, the Palestinian Authority would have to be dismantled).

    4. Find a way to convince the world to force Israel to annex the territory (would this have any precedent at all?), after decades where they argued Israel has no rights to the territory.

    All of these things hurt, and still, it isn’t clear this will work at all. The ANC had much easier time deciding on strategy…

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    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    Very good response. However, keep in mind I am not arguing for a one state solution. I am arguing with people who want a one state solution with ethnic cleansing.

    Come to think of it, both sides want that. But I don't see it happening.

    It would be hard for the Israelis to retreat from any part of the Jordan and it would be hard for the Palestinians to renounce their claims to their own state. So I don't see that happening either.

    The one way to reduce friction would be for the Israelis to police/stop expanding in the WB, but they are only fitfully inclined to do either. The other way to reduce friction would be to treat the Palis more or less equally to the Israelis, and with a similar quality of life. I don't know how that is progressing.

    I think the short term / long term solution is some kind of devolution where the non-Jews have local authority but yet are not considered citizens of Israel (in the same way as, say, the 20%-25% of Israelis who are not Jewish are.) Over time, I think that would generate a more secular approach to Israeli identity. That in turn, is likely to lead to a more blended population, I mean, to be honest, I can't tell an Israeli Jew from a non-Jew all that easily, especially if the Jew in question is Middle Eastern in origin (which I believe is the majority of Israelis.) Finally, that would lead to the possibility of absorbing the non-Jewish populations.

    Of course, I'm just looking at this as a disinterested non-Jew. I realize that what I foresee is not going to satisfy either Jewish or Palestinian nationalists.
  119. @Rob McX

    Now, you might think this was not a wise policy, what with the subsequent inflation and the government of Zimbabwe having to print up 100,00,000,000,000 dollar bills.
     
    Mugabe must be glad the Arabs introduced the zero to Africa. Where would he be without it?

    I have an attractive 40ish white South Africanfemale friend I’m try in to talk into marrying me ins exchange for citizenship.

    She told me she might just do it…..she sounds like a museum curator. Polished and refined…..

    I may have hit the jackpot.

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Neo, My wife married me in exchange for a vow to always love, honor and obey, of course she already was a US citizen. Oh, and I threw in a ring to sweeten the offer.
  120. This blog is about Africa and this is still related to Blackness. I saw a 1975 film called Switchblade Sisters and there is a scene where they show the headquarters of an anti-White militant Black panther type group and the weird thing is they have a big poster of Joseph Stalin. Since when were the Mulignans fans of Stalin? And was Stalin a fan of the Mulignans? I thought only Jews like Stalin, lol. Was Stalin a vocal critic of how Blacks in America were treated during Jim Crow?

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    • Replies: @snorlax

    Was Stalin a vocal critic of how Blacks in America were treated during Jim Crow?
     
    Yup, as early as the 1910's, Lenin was writing about how the blacks were the "revolutionary class" in the American South.

    The Communist Party USA paid for the defense in the 1930's Scottsboro Boys case, the inspiration for To Kill a Mockingbird, and considered the start of the civil rights movement. (Amusingly, the defense argument — which, granted, was probably true — was that the alleged victims were total sluts who were totally asking for it).

    Couple interesting links:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes#Stalin_period

    In a 1930s argument with black student Pierre Kalmek visiting Moscow from French colonial Africa, Dmitry Manuilsky emphasized that in America "whites have the privilege to lynch Negroes, but Negroes do not have the privilege to lynch whites."[26] He called this a form of white chauvinism, and further stressed this asking: "Do we have a difference here between the salaries of Negro and white workers? Do we have the right to lynch Negro citizens?"[26]
     
    (emphasis mine)

    To You My Beloved Comrade — International Stalin Prize winner Paul Robeson, 1953

    Apparently, just like in the ex-USSR countries, you'll see lots of Africans named "Mels" — Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin
  121. @snorlax
    Kenya, Ghana and De Beers-run colony Botswana seem to be the (relatively) least screwed-up countries in SSA.

    Namibia doesn’t sound too bad.

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    • Replies: @snorlax
    Yes, them too. And the Chinese recolonizers seem to be cleaning up Angola. All extremely dysfunctional by Western or even Latin American standards, of course.
  122. @Spmoore8
    I've been hearing about this "wholesale expulsion" for a long time, even longer than I've been hearing about the wholesale expulsion of our illegal immigrants.

    However, I don't think it will happen. First, you need a Hitler or Stalin type to do it, second, it would be impossible to defend by either the US, Europe or 99% of American Jews, and third, it would simply contribute to more Israeli isolation. So I think we will just continue with the status quo, until we don't. Sort of like the Soviet Union.

    It might happen if they get a decent justification — Egypt attacks again, 9/11-scale terror attack in Israel, greater-than-9/11-scale terror attack outside of Israel.

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    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    Right, that's the "in wartime you can do whatever you want" scenario. But, no, I don't see that happening either, because that level of "collective punishment" in terms of "ethnic cleansing" is pretty much unacceptable in the western world. Again, it's a question of the cost.

    One thing everyone brings up at that point are the ethnic cleansings after World War Two, when the European borders were re-established. But to be honest that was only possible because the Soviet Union basically oversaw the process, and for that reason, the West could pretend they didn't want it to happen, etc. etc. and downplay what did happen, etc. etc. But that wouldn't be really possible in this day and age.

    It's possible that Israel may install some strong man some day who will run on that platform and try to carry out the process.

    Usually in politics a situation continues and resolves itself without excessive violence. The fact that 20% of the population of Israel proper is non-Jewish and the population of Greater Israel is 40% non-Jewish is something that has been a fact of life for 50 years this June, and I expect will probably continue for a couple more decades, at least.
  123. Apparently South Africa is losing rank on the global GDP ranking every year:
    its economy is slowly converging with the rest of Africa.

    Wonder why?
    Of course, people like Elon Musk left.

    Also, I always wondered why business like Google and Microsoft don’t open software research center in South Africa, they could create software there? why not… why doesn’t Bill Gate push that idea?

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  124. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Ganderson
    Any Boers on this thread? Will the Afrikaners fight back, or have they become "Swedishized"?

    No , they will not fight back. They had the entirety of the country in their hands and voluntarily gave it all away. The time for fighting has long passed. They had every opportunity to be a free people in their own land and be self sufficient , albeit in a possibly lowered economic strata , and they squandered it.

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    • Replies: @40 Acres and A Kardashian

    No , they will not fight back. They had the entirety of the country in their hands and voluntarily gave it all away. The time for fighting has long passed. They had every opportunity to be a free people in their own land and be self sufficient , albeit in a possibly lowered economic strata , and they squandered it.
     
    I'm afraid you're right. Nature doesn't give very many second chances after a people group opts for suicide.

    Not too sanguine about our prospects, either, because karma is real, and it's a real bitch.

    After what we did to the South in the 1860's, Germany in the 1940's, the South in the 1960's, Rhodesia in the 70's, South Africa in 80's and 90's, and to the tens of millions of our grandchildren who will grow up in a Third World country where they're hated and demonized, I don't expect things are going to work out too well for the remnants of what was once America.

    Life generally doesn't work that way.

    I hope I'm wrong. But I don't think I am.
  125. @snorlax
    It might happen if they get a decent justification — Egypt attacks again, 9/11-scale terror attack in Israel, greater-than-9/11-scale terror attack outside of Israel.

    Right, that’s the “in wartime you can do whatever you want” scenario. But, no, I don’t see that happening either, because that level of “collective punishment” in terms of “ethnic cleansing” is pretty much unacceptable in the western world. Again, it’s a question of the cost.

    One thing everyone brings up at that point are the ethnic cleansings after World War Two, when the European borders were re-established. But to be honest that was only possible because the Soviet Union basically oversaw the process, and for that reason, the West could pretend they didn’t want it to happen, etc. etc. and downplay what did happen, etc. etc. But that wouldn’t be really possible in this day and age.

    It’s possible that Israel may install some strong man some day who will run on that platform and try to carry out the process.

    Usually in politics a situation continues and resolves itself without excessive violence. The fact that 20% of the population of Israel proper is non-Jewish and the population of Greater Israel is 40% non-Jewish is something that has been a fact of life for 50 years this June, and I expect will probably continue for a couple more decades, at least.

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    • Replies: @snorlax

    But, no, I don’t see that happening either, because that level of “collective punishment” in terms of “ethnic cleansing” is pretty much unacceptable in the western world.
     
    It's kind of one of those "they'll call you a racist anyway" type deals. Israel's image definitely does still have room to fall among leftist Westerners — but not much. So it's more a question of whether their actions seem justified to people with right-of-center viewpoints.
  126. @TelfoedJohn
    Taking in white South Africans would be an interesting experience. Personally, I'm not a fan of the white South African personality.. they are brash, loud, aggressive etc. Rather like Israelis - perhaps for the same reasons - living in a difficult neighbourhood.

    Australian reactions to South Africans: http://www.saaustralia.org/topic/43980-south-african-stereotypes/

    In Australia, only a small amount of South Africans are Dutch-descent Afrikaners. Where would they go? 'Back' to support Geert Wilders?

    Taking in white South Africans would be an interesting experience. Personally, I’m not a fan of the white South African personality.. they are brash, loud, aggressive etc.

    I quite like white SAs… I find them funny/amusing and they have some great stories. A lot of the men have a very healthy self respect for their own fighting abilities. “I was surrounded by 8 guys who picked a fight with me. It was lucky for them I was in a sporting mood…”. I can’t remember exactly what was said but the guy I remember could certainly fight.

    Living as a minority among unruly SSAs in a Detroit-like environment must be tough and from what I can see, breeds a very capable, no-nonsense human used to making things work against all odds. They remind me of people who have lived through war or depression, because they certainly understand the difference between need and want.

    As I said, I quite like their brash, aggressive, self-confident, no-BS, competent character especially if they have the ability to back it up. It always impresses me that the SAs were able to build their own nukes beginning in 1967, total population of around 20M and about 20% whites – 4M whites built 6 nukes. Respect.

    (We wuz hidden figgahz!)

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  127. @Corvinus
    Of course, Zuma's proposal is foolish and illegal. But let's honestly look at why he is making this play by breaking down your statement.

    "Unfortunately, this is probably what’s coming down the line: blacks grab white land and resources in SA, fail to exploit them and run them into the ground."

    Well, white Europeans had been responsible for the conditions of blacks in South Africa, having invaded their land, taking control of the resources, and imposing Apartheid. Although, to be fair, Whitey did provide the Darkies with roads and indoor plumbing--you know, "civilization"--so I suppose the Darkies ought not be too upset when they were violently taken over.

    "Next, the country gets even poorer and more violent as Africans compete for the ever-dwindling resources left behind after the mass dispossession of whites."

    Well, there had been rival tribal groups who vied for control of South Africa before the Europeans came. Then the Europeans kept these groups from gaining political power, so those groups worked together toward a common cause. Now, those same factions are at it again, supposedly looking out for the interests of the nation.

    "Then more and more of them join the mass exodus to Europe as a last attempt to avoid starvation or being killed. Short version: Whitey always has to pay in the end."

    Indeed, what a shame. The toll on Whitey is immense. What I think should happen is that white people, since they invaded the country, should leave to avoid future problems. It's not their homeland...Europe is. Whitey should be repatriated or deported. Hey, don't blame me, I'm just using the same argument being made by some on the Alt-Right who call for non-whites, legal or illegal, to voluntarily vamoose because they are not "true" Americans. Propositional nation, what a farce!

    I like the cut of your jib, Corvinius! You have gotten past the biggest moral hump and recognize that ethnic cleansing is a live option. But by focusing on your preferred option you miss a host of other opportunities.

    There’s outright extermination (I’m thinking Hutu/Tutsi style machete slaughter: cheap, low cost).

    There’s also a “two [or 3,or 4]state solution” with big walls (a la Israel).

    Possibly an underground homegrown insurrection (I’m thinking of the underground bomb/machine gun/bullet factories in Israel leading up to the 1948 war).

    Then there’s population exchanges: swap the 2-3 million horny Muslim and African dudes that have arrived in Europe in the last couple years for a similar number of Boers. [although given the SA blacks hatred of Nigerian and Zimbabwean border jumpers, that might be a tough sell.]

    But MY favorite is a weaponized Crisper/CAS9 vector to destroy fertility without hurting anyone. With a few billion fewer people in Africa the flora and fauna would likely recover in a few decades.

    There are lots of ways to solve the problem other than ethnic cleansing. Now that you have made that moral leap, you should broaden your horizons and look outside the box. Welcome, and good luck!

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    • Replies: @Kylie
    Well played, sir!
    , @Corvinus
    "I like the cut of your jib, Corvinius! You have gotten past the biggest moral hump and recognize that ethnic cleansing is a live option. But by focusing on your preferred option you miss a host of other opportunities."

    Phenomenal strawman that you built here.
  128. @res
    OT: Has Uber pissed someone powerful off? The establishment seems to be in full takedown mode. The latest: http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/03/uber-used-secret-program-evade-law-enforcement-report-claims

    I’ve been assuming this is a move by some current or prospective competitor to take them down.

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  129. @AnotherDad

    The long-term outlook there is a wholesale expulsion of the Arabs. It’s only a matter of time because every new generation of Jews there is more religious and immune to the suicidal tendencies of the West. Israel’s combat officers are already majority-religious-nationalist.
     
    IJ, i tend to think there's a good likelihood of that as well.

    But is the demographic future of Israel actually trending more not to "religious nationalist" but to these ultra-Orthodox loons, who have great big ass families ... but the "men"--if you can call them that--just sit around and study the Torah all day on welfare from everyone else and have an exemption from military service. When you're most philogenitive group are parasites, that doesn't seem to bode real well.

    Can’t they change the law to include them in conscription?

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    • Replies: @snorlax
    Netanyahu's 2013-2015 government actually did — it was either the first government or the first right-wing government that didn't include the (comically corrupt) Ultra-Orthodox political parties — but then they rejoined his government after the 2015 election, conditional on reinstating the draft exemption.

    Interestingly, the regular Orthodox Israelis are the ones most infuriated by the Ultras' draft-dodging.
  130. @Wilkey
    A complete meltdown in South Africa would be beautiful. It would utterly and completely destroy any remaining argument for multiculturalism. When talking about mass immigration and the looming prospect of whites becoming minorities in our own countries we would never have to make any complicated intellectual arguments. All we would have to say is "South Africa."

    South Africa is destined to go the way of Zimbabwe. The sooner the better.

    A complete meltdown in South Africa would be beautiful. It would utterly and completely destroy any remaining argument for multiculturalism. When talking about mass immigration and the looming prospect of whites becoming minorities in our own countries we would never have to make any complicated intellectual arguments. All we would have to say is “South Africa.”

    I’ve got to agree with Rob McX, Wilkey. I thought the same when I read your comment – there has already been plenty to learn from. Rob didn’t add more to this so I will. People on this blog, of course, but probably 1/2 of the country have the sense to know enough from what happened in Rhodesia, what happened in Detroit and almost all city cores, and what is happening now in Europe to know multiculturalism is… hmmm, let’s say .. unsound. They want this to stop, especially here.

    It’s not that the other 1/2 don’t know it’s unsound either. They just don’t want it to stop. That’s mainly because they started it. They want things to go completely to hell in the white Western world, because that makes them feel good. They figure they’ll be alright when the SHTF. They are mostly wrong about that.

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    • Replies: @Wilkey
    I don't remember ever hearing much about how we needed to fight apartheid in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. There was, however, a huge and well-known political movement, led mostly by the Left, to eliminate apartheid in South Africa by starving/boycotting the country into submission.

    Everyone over a certain age knows about it. When South Africa crashes they'll be able to link the end of apartheid to the collapse of what was once the richest country in Africa.

    , @Wilkey
    I don't remember ever hearing much about how we needed to fight apartheid in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. There was, however, a huge and very well-know movement led mostly by the Left to eliminate apartheid in South Africa by starving/boycotting the country into submission.

    Everyone over a certain age knows about it. When South Africa crashes they'll be able to link the end of apartheid to the collapse of what was once the richest country in Africa.
  131. @SPMoore8
    Right, that's the "in wartime you can do whatever you want" scenario. But, no, I don't see that happening either, because that level of "collective punishment" in terms of "ethnic cleansing" is pretty much unacceptable in the western world. Again, it's a question of the cost.

    One thing everyone brings up at that point are the ethnic cleansings after World War Two, when the European borders were re-established. But to be honest that was only possible because the Soviet Union basically oversaw the process, and for that reason, the West could pretend they didn't want it to happen, etc. etc. and downplay what did happen, etc. etc. But that wouldn't be really possible in this day and age.

    It's possible that Israel may install some strong man some day who will run on that platform and try to carry out the process.

    Usually in politics a situation continues and resolves itself without excessive violence. The fact that 20% of the population of Israel proper is non-Jewish and the population of Greater Israel is 40% non-Jewish is something that has been a fact of life for 50 years this June, and I expect will probably continue for a couple more decades, at least.

    But, no, I don’t see that happening either, because that level of “collective punishment” in terms of “ethnic cleansing” is pretty much unacceptable in the western world.

    It’s kind of one of those “they’ll call you a racist anyway” type deals. Israel’s image definitely does still have room to fall among leftist Westerners — but not much. So it’s more a question of whether their actions seem justified to people with right-of-center viewpoints.

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  132. @Corvinus
    Of course, Zuma's proposal is foolish and illegal. But let's honestly look at why he is making this play by breaking down your statement.

    "Unfortunately, this is probably what’s coming down the line: blacks grab white land and resources in SA, fail to exploit them and run them into the ground."

    Well, white Europeans had been responsible for the conditions of blacks in South Africa, having invaded their land, taking control of the resources, and imposing Apartheid. Although, to be fair, Whitey did provide the Darkies with roads and indoor plumbing--you know, "civilization"--so I suppose the Darkies ought not be too upset when they were violently taken over.

    "Next, the country gets even poorer and more violent as Africans compete for the ever-dwindling resources left behind after the mass dispossession of whites."

    Well, there had been rival tribal groups who vied for control of South Africa before the Europeans came. Then the Europeans kept these groups from gaining political power, so those groups worked together toward a common cause. Now, those same factions are at it again, supposedly looking out for the interests of the nation.

    "Then more and more of them join the mass exodus to Europe as a last attempt to avoid starvation or being killed. Short version: Whitey always has to pay in the end."

    Indeed, what a shame. The toll on Whitey is immense. What I think should happen is that white people, since they invaded the country, should leave to avoid future problems. It's not their homeland...Europe is. Whitey should be repatriated or deported. Hey, don't blame me, I'm just using the same argument being made by some on the Alt-Right who call for non-whites, legal or illegal, to voluntarily vamoose because they are not "true" Americans. Propositional nation, what a farce!

    Your idea has more merit than you realize. You believe that the dysfunction in Africa is the result of whitey. Perhaps it is, perhaps it is not.

    But if it is the problem, then black people taking full control of their lands, their resources, and their government should make things much better than the way they were when whitey was screwing everything up.

    Unfortunately, as you perhaps know all too well, things in Africa have gotten much, much worse since independence from whitey. In fact, many black people are calling for whitey to come back and re-colonize their lands. Eventually, perhaps, all the damage that has been caused by whitey will be overcome by the black people of Africa and we will see a flowering of civilization across the continent in the decades to come.

    I am open to that possibility, however remote it seems to me.

    Perhaps you should be open to the possibility that things will continue to deteriorate as whitey becomes extinct on the continent, and that the failings of these nations are not the fault of whitey. Perhaps you can even start thinking of black people as human beings, capable of working out their own destinies without the help of good white liberals such as yourself.

    But I am not holding my breath.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Your idea has more merit than you realize. You believe that the dysfunction in Africa is the result of whitey. Perhaps it is, perhaps it is not."

    "and that the failings of these nations are not the fault of whitey."

    The dysfunction in Africa is a combination of two potent forces--the continued impact of white colonialism and perpetual black intertribal violence.

    "But if it is the problem, then black people taking full control of their lands, their resources, and their government should make things much better than the way they were when whitey was screwing everything up."

    Should make things much better will take considerable time and effort. Take into account this quotation.

    “Our possession of the West Indies gave us the strength, the support, but especially the capital, the wealth, at the time when no other European nations possessed such reserve, which enabled us to come through the great struggles of the Napoleonic Wars. The keen competition of commerce in the 18th and 19th centuries enabled us not only to acquire this appendage of possessions which we have, but also to lay the foundations of that commercial and financial leadership which when the world was young,...enabled us to make our great position in the world.” (‘The Long Road To Humanity’, by Stanton A. Coblentz page 325 and Introduction To African Civilisations John G. Jackson page 3O6)

    Africa was the stepping stone for European greatness. This continent has yet to recover from this massive exploitation. To be sure, Asians and Africans and South Americans also engaged in some form of expansion, some form of colonizing, some form of barbarianism. If those on the Alt Right want to celebrate the greatness of the European's ability to develop technology and medicine and "civilization", it best also acknowledge the horrific toll and expense it had on native peoples, and that within the past century they are on the path to self-reliance.

    "Unfortunately, as you perhaps know all too well, things in Africa have gotten much, much worse since independence from whitey."

    Absolutely. It is to be expected. Africa only "earned" its independence since World War II.

    "In fact, many black people are calling for whitey to come back and re-colonize their lands."

    Who? I'm sure you are able to provide sources.

    "Eventually, perhaps, all the damage that has been caused by whitey will be overcome by the black people of Africa and we will see a flowering of civilization across the continent in the decades to come. I am open to that possibility, however remote it seems to me."

    A LONG recovery, indeed.

    "Perhaps you can even start thinking of black people as human beings, capable of working out their own destinies without the help of good white liberals such as yourself."

    I'm not a liberal nor a leftist, just an educated white married man with children who is able to make his own decisions about race and culture.
  133. @NOTA
    Can't they change the law to include them in conscription?

    Netanyahu’s 2013-2015 government actually did — it was either the first government or the first right-wing government that didn’t include the (comically corrupt) Ultra-Orthodox political parties — but then they rejoined his government after the 2015 election, conditional on reinstating the draft exemption.

    Interestingly, the regular Orthodox Israelis are the ones most infuriated by the Ultras’ draft-dodging.

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  134. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    What a world we live in.

    South Africa and Sweden.

    South Africa wants to get rid of the most productive people.
    Sweden wants to bring in the least productive people.

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    • Replies: @Ganderson
    "Två personer" Personer som heter "Sven"? "Ole"?
  135. I’m starting to get why Invite the World is so population among leftists. It’s not that we’re all equal, or anything. They’re covert Race Realists. They know forcing People of Vibrancy to live in vibrant-run countries like South Africa is tantamount to a crime against humanity.

    Then again, they’re not consistent in their race realism, because they fail to take into account the fact that these people bring their vibrancy with them. Plus, leftists are intent on destroying what it is that makes non-vibrant nations worth living in.

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  136. @MJMD
    Am slowly reading through a number of books on the Afrikaners at the moment. The fact is that they've been greedy from the time of the Great Trek onward: even in the early 19th Century there were voices warning that they were destroying any hope of their own nation-state by setting out to grab land with little agricultural value and lots of angry natives. And, given the problems with rinderpest, sleeping sickness, and generally poor soil quality that you get in Southern Africa once you leave the temperate area of the Cape, the Boers might even have pulled out. But then the gold and diamonds were found, and the rest, as they say, was history. The resource curse struck, and stuck.

    Israel has no such excuse, which makes their political malpractice even more amazing. It's frankly amazing that most Palestinians even want a two-state solution at this point! The moment they don't, there's a good likelihood that Israel will have sealed her own fate.

    But then again, assuming no right of return, an improved Jewish birth rate (among the ultra-religious, no less) may now mean that the Palestinians will never actually outnumber the Israelis within Greater Israel. Nothing like the 10-to-1 situation faced by South African whites, who also had many more 5th-columnists to contend with among the 1. The Afrikaners frankly seem like a people who've had the fight knocked out of them; the Zionists may yet prove willing to shoot their way out of the mess they've blundered into.

    The best thing for the Israelis would be to convert the world to ethnic cleansing (or for Europe to convert itself).

    Once ethnic cleansing + population exchanges are again popular as an ethnic solution, the Israelis will be free to take sterner measures.

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  137. @candid_observer
    OT, but Trump is now accusing Obama of having Trump Tower wire-tapped before the election.

    Here's where all the leaking and other mischief by the Deep State comes back to haunt it.

    How can the Deep State apparatus -- and Obama at its top -- convincingly claim that this sort of nefarious thing wasn't going on? They can assert of course that it would be against the law for the President to do so -- Ben Rhodes has produced this lame excuse -- but, given the massive number of illegal leaks the Deep State has engaged in since Trump came on the scene, how can they pretend that the law operates as any constraint on them and their activities? Their own lawless actions -- celebrated of course by the media and the left to date -- have conferred tremendous plausibility on Trump's claims.

    Will the Deep State ever realize how its attempts at sabotage can backfire? How does it get a reputation for integrity back when it needs it?

    Trump wouldn’t make this claim unless he had evidence to spring.

    And it’s looking like we are moving from the Media blowing a valve over “irresponsible Trump allegations!” to Trump’s Luck kicking in.

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  138. @Rob McX

    Now, you might think this was not a wise policy, what with the subsequent inflation and the government of Zimbabwe having to print up 100,00,000,000,000 dollar bills.
     
    Mugabe must be glad the Arabs introduced the zero to Africa. Where would he be without it?

    I thought Professor Gates said that zero was an African invention? That’d make sense, because for leaders like Robert Mugabe, zero is obviously more than just a number; it’s a symbol of achievement.

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  139. The same Economist now owned by the Rothschild heiress and good friend of Hillary. Interesting webs of connection, indeed.

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  140. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
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    • Replies: @CCZ
    Yes, liberals confirm that this is the future that they want:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/03/03/how-a-drag-queen-launched-the-this-is-the-future-liberals-want-meme.html
  141. @Rob McX

    A complete meltdown in South Africa would be beautiful. It would utterly and completely destroy any remaining argument for multiculturalism.
     
    I'm afraid you're way too optimistic on that. We already see living proof on our very doorsteps of fact that multiculturalism is a disaster - London, Paris, Nice, Berlin, Stockholm...if you live in a white country, you're never more than a few hours' drive from its nightmarish consequences. Plus, as you say, what will happen in SA has already happened on a smaller scale next door in Zimbabwe, and it hasn't made the slightest difference.

    what will happen in SA has already happened on a smaller scale next door in Zimbabwe, and it hasn’t made the slightest difference.

    If there’s a complete meltdown in South Africa the western media will explain to us that it was caused by white racism, or the legacy of apartheid, or possibly Russian hackers. And most people will believe the media.

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  142. Seriously, is there any hope of them staking out a small part of South Africa and making a new country there?

    A lot more hope than there would have been with cankles in the White House. Cankles would fall to her knees and thank the Goddess for the opportunity to deploy carrier groups against white South Africans.

    Once things get going anything is possible. I suspect you’d see mass defections from SA military of white & probably even coloured soldiers. The blacks would at some point devolve along ethnic lines. I think it’s quite possible that in such a war that not only an Afrikaner led group carves out a section of the country they win the whole damn thing.

    It’s certainly likely that Whites, should they unify to any reasonable degree, would whup everyone else in SA. The rub is getting them to both unify to any reasonable degree, and fight for their own interests.

    Since others are posting what they “hope” happens (SA whites expropriated, slaughtered, etc.), I guess I’ll chime in. I hope the SA whites pull their heads out and carve an all-white country out of SA, and crush anyone who gets in their way.

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  143. The best thing for the Israelis would be to convert the world to ethnic cleansing (or for Europe to convert itself).

    Obviously the Israelis don’t agree. Because diaspora Jewry, their meal ticket. Diaspora Jews care about Israeli Jewry, but that aside, they have entirely different interests. Jewish Supremacy seems to be working for both camps, so far.

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  144. @Wilkey
    A complete meltdown in South Africa would be beautiful. It would utterly and completely destroy any remaining argument for multiculturalism. When talking about mass immigration and the looming prospect of whites becoming minorities in our own countries we would never have to make any complicated intellectual arguments. All we would have to say is "South Africa."

    South Africa is destined to go the way of Zimbabwe. The sooner the better.

    Honeslty, I would argue it has already melted down.

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  145. @SFG
    Seriously, is there any hope of them staking out a small part of South Africa and making a new country there?

    Seriously, is there any hope of them staking out a small part of South Africa and making a new country there?

    A ‘Goy Israel’.

    Even easier, on balance, because – Africans.

    They wouldn’t even need the massive transfusion of Goy Gelt that Israel receives. Just the relative absence of the active obstruction they faced before.

    Which, it turns out, may not be as unlikely as it seemed until just recently.

    Combined with offering an Israeli-style automatic ‘Right of Return’ (so to speak) for Caucasians worldwide.

    Yes We Can!

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  146. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Svigor

    Of course, Zuma’s proposal is foolish and illegal. But let’s honestly look at why he is making this play by breaking down your statement.
     
    Suuuure. Right after we look honestly at all the white racism throughout history.

    Well, white Europeans had been responsible for the conditions of blacks in South Africa, having invaded their land, taking control of the resources, and imposing Apartheid.
     
    You mean, like Jews did to Palestinians in Palestine.

    Although, to be fair, Whitey did provide the Darkies with roads and indoor plumbing–you know, “civilization”–so I suppose the Darkies ought not be too upset when they were violently taken over.
     
    Sort of like how the Jews did provide the ragheads in Israel with improvements - you know, "civilization" - so I suppose the ragheads ought not be too upset when they were violently taken over.

    “Then more and more of them join the mass exodus to Europe as a last attempt to avoid starvation or being killed. Short version: Whitey always has to pay in the end.”
     

    Indeed, what a shame. The toll on Whitey is immense. What I think should happen is that white people, since they invaded the country, should leave to avoid future problems. It’s not their homeland…Europe is. Whitey should be repatriated or deported. Hey, don’t blame me, I’m just using the same argument being made by some on the Alt-Right who call for non-whites, legal or illegal, to voluntarily vamoose because they are not “true” Americans. Propositional nation, what a farce!
     
    "Short version: Heimie always has to pay in the end."

    Indeed, what a shame. The toll on Heimie is immense. What I think should happen is that Jews, since they invaded Palestine, should leave to avoid future problems. It's not their homeland...Europe is. Heimie should be repatriated or deported. Hey, don't blame me, I'm just using the same argument being made by Corvanus, who calls for colonialists to be expelled. Jewish state, what a farce!

    You mean, like Jews did to Palestinians in Palestine.

    Or the Jordanians did to the Palestinians in Palestine , or the Turks did to the Cypriots in Cyprus , or the Turks did to the Kurds in Kurdistan , or Russia did to the Chechens in Chechnya , or Russia did to the Dagestanis in Dagestan , or Russia did to the Ukranians in Ukraine , or Russia did to the people of Kaliningrad in Kaliningrad , or China did to Tibeteans in Tibet , or China did to the people of Xinyang in Xinyang , or Indonesia did to the Papuans in Papua , Or Morocco did to the Western Saharans in Western Sahara or Sudan did to the Darfuris in Darfur &c. &c. &c. …………..wonder why you chose the example you did , random chance probably XD.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Are Russia, Jordan, China being called America's BFFs and the "only democracy" in their regions? As far as I know all three are called dictatorships, especially Russia, which is probably the least dictatorial of the bunch. Russia is also called the most important and dangerous enemy of the US and the West in general.
  147. @Flip
    Namibia doesn't sound too bad.

    Yes, them too. And the Chinese recolonizers seem to be cleaning up Angola. All extremely dysfunctional by Western or even Latin American standards, of course.

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    • Replies: @anon
    Truth be told ,Ive been to Zambia and it is not bad either . Along with the Vatican it is an officially Christian country. The capital is safe , there is not much crime and if you are into black girls ( I know most guys here are not ) then it is as close to a P-Paradise as you are going to find.
  148. @Corvinus
    Of course, Zuma's proposal is foolish and illegal. But let's honestly look at why he is making this play by breaking down your statement.

    "Unfortunately, this is probably what’s coming down the line: blacks grab white land and resources in SA, fail to exploit them and run them into the ground."

    Well, white Europeans had been responsible for the conditions of blacks in South Africa, having invaded their land, taking control of the resources, and imposing Apartheid. Although, to be fair, Whitey did provide the Darkies with roads and indoor plumbing--you know, "civilization"--so I suppose the Darkies ought not be too upset when they were violently taken over.

    "Next, the country gets even poorer and more violent as Africans compete for the ever-dwindling resources left behind after the mass dispossession of whites."

    Well, there had been rival tribal groups who vied for control of South Africa before the Europeans came. Then the Europeans kept these groups from gaining political power, so those groups worked together toward a common cause. Now, those same factions are at it again, supposedly looking out for the interests of the nation.

    "Then more and more of them join the mass exodus to Europe as a last attempt to avoid starvation or being killed. Short version: Whitey always has to pay in the end."

    Indeed, what a shame. The toll on Whitey is immense. What I think should happen is that white people, since they invaded the country, should leave to avoid future problems. It's not their homeland...Europe is. Whitey should be repatriated or deported. Hey, don't blame me, I'm just using the same argument being made by some on the Alt-Right who call for non-whites, legal or illegal, to voluntarily vamoose because they are not "true" Americans. Propositional nation, what a farce!

    Fun stuff, to be sure, but it’s also worth mentioning that the land now comprising South Africa was nearly devoid of population when the first European settlers arrived. Too cold in the winter for nekked negroes.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Fun stuff, to be sure, but it’s also worth mentioning that the land now comprising South Africa was nearly devoid of population when the first European settlers arrived. Too cold in the winter for nekked negroes."

    Not quite accurate on your part.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khoikhoi#Arrival_of_Europeans
  149. @Y
    This argument is well known, but it does indeed miss a few important differences:

    A. The UN and other states recognize Israel only in part of the territory, where Jews have a stable majority. Withdrawal is always an option, albeit one that Israel is reluctant to do for good reasons. It can be argued that Israel has already implemented withdrawal in Gaza and areas of the WB (Afrikaners tried to get into such a situation, but their Bantustan program failed).

    B. The population ratio is at worst 50-50 (if we consider the entire area), and it isn't clear which side has the higher population growth right now. (SA had about 10-90, and actually blocked European migration post WW2).

    C. There are some practical roadblocks to one-state. To even begin to get there, any would-be Palestinian leadership supporting one-state would have to:

    1. Explain to lots of angry, conspiracy-minded Islamists why they are talking about giving up 'Islamic holy land' for Israel and somehow manage to survive it ("But we'll take over from the inside!" - they don't trust the leadership anyway, and consider the entire idea a humiliation).

    2. Give up entirely on settlements ("We want one state and equals rights" and "some people of some religion/nationality don't have the right to live in some areas" aren't really compatible).

    3. Give up their personal perks and titles (can't have two states on same territory if arguing for one state. At the very least, the Palestinian Authority would have to be dismantled).

    4. Find a way to convince the world to force Israel to annex the territory (would this have any precedent at all?), after decades where they argued Israel has no rights to the territory.

    All of these things hurt, and still, it isn't clear this will work at all. The ANC had much easier time deciding on strategy...

    Very good response. However, keep in mind I am not arguing for a one state solution. I am arguing with people who want a one state solution with ethnic cleansing.

    Come to think of it, both sides want that. But I don’t see it happening.

    It would be hard for the Israelis to retreat from any part of the Jordan and it would be hard for the Palestinians to renounce their claims to their own state. So I don’t see that happening either.

    The one way to reduce friction would be for the Israelis to police/stop expanding in the WB, but they are only fitfully inclined to do either. The other way to reduce friction would be to treat the Palis more or less equally to the Israelis, and with a similar quality of life. I don’t know how that is progressing.

    I think the short term / long term solution is some kind of devolution where the non-Jews have local authority but yet are not considered citizens of Israel (in the same way as, say, the 20%-25% of Israelis who are not Jewish are.) Over time, I think that would generate a more secular approach to Israeli identity. That in turn, is likely to lead to a more blended population, I mean, to be honest, I can’t tell an Israeli Jew from a non-Jew all that easily, especially if the Jew in question is Middle Eastern in origin (which I believe is the majority of Israelis.) Finally, that would lead to the possibility of absorbing the non-Jewish populations.

    Of course, I’m just looking at this as a disinterested non-Jew. I realize that what I foresee is not going to satisfy either Jewish or Palestinian nationalists.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "I mean, to be honest, I can’t tell an Israeli Jew from a non-Jew all that easily,"

    Palestinians on average are Browner than Israeli Jews. Have you seen Palestinian rapper DJ Khaled.
    http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1159/1216/files/dj_khaled_grande.png?8727686477349282745


    DJ Khaled definitely has more melanin in his skin than Benjamin Netanyahu and Natalie Portman.

    I am willing to bet DJ Khaled has never been called a White boy by any of his Black label mates (Lil Wayne, Birdman, Nicki Minaj, Tyga, etc) at Cash Money Records.

    You will never hear anybody describe DJ Khaled as Unbearably White and Stale Pale.

    , @This Is Our Home
    There is a way for Israel to get everything it wants.

    1. Gaza is absorbed into Egypt. Or the Sinai becomes an independent state with Gaza as part of it.

    2. The West Bank is absorbed by Jordan, a majority Palestinian state, and Israel keeps blocks of it that Israel has settled and wants. Israel also gives up a few Palestinian villages in Israel proper, which effects a degree of population transfer.

    3. Israel formally takes Jerusalem in total and tells the world to deal with it.

    At which point Egypt or Jordan or Sinai may end up as the result of civil unrest declaring way on Israel. The ensuing conflict would then create a no man's land in Gaza and The West Bank. Israel then wins and closes its borders to encompass all of that land.

    There is also a way for the Palestinians to get what they want.

    1. A younger leadership takes over in the West Bank and forms links with Arabs in Israel proper.

    2. They begin to demand their rights as de facto citizens and the vote. They draw Israel to overeact and Israel bow looks like it is fighting the new Gandhi.

    3. Gaza drops Hamas and joins in the civil disobedience.

    4. Masses of Arabs begin to walk between Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

    5. They get the vote and rights as Israeli citizens.

    6. Then begin the slow march to demographic conquest. They implement affirmative action. They follow by voting themselves special protected rights. Followed by compensated redistribution. Then confiscation. Then massacres and finally Israelis all leave.

    The problem for both is that the Israelis are too liberal to achieve plan 1 and the Palestinians are too illiberal to achieve plan 2.

    Of course the demographic changes in Europe and America may mean that Israel ends up totally isolated whatever happens.
    , @Y
    I'd say things are at a stalemate, for now.

    1. The original two-state formulation was 'a secure Israel and a viable Palestine'. Well, Israel isn't secure and (would-be) Palestine isn't viable. Can't see anything to change the latter, and Palestinians simply won't agree to the measures Israel thinks are needed for the former. The idea was a demilitarized Palestinian state. Well, we have large military organizations and not much of a state...

    2. Ignoring the various one-state solution options that are cover for one side controlling the other, we saw actual one-state solutions in nearby Lebanon and Cyprus followed by civil war. Can't see the peace being kept after such a 'solution' without personality transplant for at least half the population. Even then, Israelis would not like this at all for simple reasons (difficult to avoid large transfers to the poorer Arabs + losing sovereignty while Arab states can still cover for Palestinians).

    3. External pressure is much less effective than in the past, now that the big liberal moment has passed. Pressuring either side too hard would lead to an even bigger mess, and the 'world community' simply doesn't have the stomach for this. Current pressure seems to be focused on keeping things as they are or subtly pushing one side or the other, but not too much.

    What could change this? A more activist Israeli leadership could push in one direction or another, there could be a war (well, there will be a war, but I'm thinking of an even bigger one), demographics could shift... But it's quite possible the status quo would last. The one thing I wouldn't bet on is an outbreak of peace.

  150. @TelfoedJohn
    Taking in white South Africans would be an interesting experience. Personally, I'm not a fan of the white South African personality.. they are brash, loud, aggressive etc. Rather like Israelis - perhaps for the same reasons - living in a difficult neighbourhood.

    Australian reactions to South Africans: http://www.saaustralia.org/topic/43980-south-african-stereotypes/

    In Australia, only a small amount of South Africans are Dutch-descent Afrikaners. Where would they go? 'Back' to support Geert Wilders?

    Personally, I’m not a fan of the white South African personality.. they are brash, loud, aggressive etc. Rather like Israelis – perhaps for the same reasons – living in a difficult neighbourhood.

    Another of the reasons being that many of them are jewish–many of the rich ones, anyway.

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  151. @Buffalo Joe
    Lot, I understand resource extraction as a revenue stream for some African nations, gold, oil, cobalt etc., but I don't think agri. goods are exported in any significant amounts.

    Joe, Africa is number one in cocoa bean production (no double meaning intended). Ivory Coast is the top producer. Modernizing agriculture would probably make Africa a big exporter of food, but it could displace huge numbers of people as well. That’s the question that many African countries are currently facing. In some ways, the problem is analogous to what’s happening in parts of the US. Mechanization makes farming very efficient, but it doesn’t directly employ that many people.

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    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    but it could displace huge numbers of people as well. That’s the question that many African countries are currently facing. In some ways, the problem is analogous to what’s happening in parts of the US. Mechanization makes farming very efficient, but it doesn’t directly employ that many people.
     
    That's what light manufacturing is for. Toys, clothing, furniture, handbags, clothing accessories, exercise equipment - the kind of thing that moved from the West to East Asia and is in the process of moving to South Asia, perhaps Africa, if salaries in East Asia continue to skyrocket. During the Colonial era, 90% of the US labor force used to farm for a living.

    They'll do fine where they are. However, if we let them, many would prefer to move here. Heck, if we could increase our wages 10x by moving to Africa, while improving our living environment, most of us would probably do so.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    IBC, I seem to remember that I saw a documentary where the Chinese bought up large parcels of and fenced it in. Excelled at farming that land, but for export back to China. The locals now want back in on the land they failed to farm.
  152. @Big Bill
    All this new talk of "populism". Nobody is using my favorite term for people power: "grass roots".

    "Populism" smacks of Huey Long, ignorant Southern white goy trash, Nazis and Jim Crow, doesn't it?

    "Grass roots" sounds nice, like liberal college kids, eating granola, going to Progressive locavore meetings, signing petitions and stuff.

    I was curious when "populism" came back, so I went to Google Trends and compared the terms:

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=populism,grass%20roots

    Apparently the big push started November 6, 2016, right when Trump was elected.

    They really hate us, don't they?

    The road to hell is already paved with astroturf.

    Trump will have to bulldoze perimeter around the White House to clear the Nation’s path for The Wall.

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  153. @Big Bill
    I like the cut of your jib, Corvinius! You have gotten past the biggest moral hump and recognize that ethnic cleansing is a live option. But by focusing on your preferred option you miss a host of other opportunities.

    There's outright extermination (I'm thinking Hutu/Tutsi style machete slaughter: cheap, low cost).

    There's also a "two [or 3,or 4]state solution" with big walls (a la Israel).

    Possibly an underground homegrown insurrection (I'm thinking of the underground bomb/machine gun/bullet factories in Israel leading up to the 1948 war).

    Then there's population exchanges: swap the 2-3 million horny Muslim and African dudes that have arrived in Europe in the last couple years for a similar number of Boers. [although given the SA blacks hatred of Nigerian and Zimbabwean border jumpers, that might be a tough sell.]

    But MY favorite is a weaponized Crisper/CAS9 vector to destroy fertility without hurting anyone. With a few billion fewer people in Africa the flora and fauna would likely recover in a few decades.

    There are lots of ways to solve the problem other than ethnic cleansing. Now that you have made that moral leap, you should broaden your horizons and look outside the box. Welcome, and good luck!

    Well played, sir!

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  154. @Jefferson
    This blog is about Africa and this is still related to Blackness. I saw a 1975 film called Switchblade Sisters and there is a scene where they show the headquarters of an anti-White militant Black panther type group and the weird thing is they have a big poster of Joseph Stalin. Since when were the Mulignans fans of Stalin? And was Stalin a fan of the Mulignans? I thought only Jews like Stalin, lol. Was Stalin a vocal critic of how Blacks in America were treated during Jim Crow?

    Was Stalin a vocal critic of how Blacks in America were treated during Jim Crow?

    Yup, as early as the 1910′s, Lenin was writing about how the blacks were the “revolutionary class” in the American South.

    The Communist Party USA paid for the defense in the 1930′s Scottsboro Boys case, the inspiration for To Kill a Mockingbird, and considered the start of the civil rights movement. (Amusingly, the defense argument — which, granted, was probably true — was that the alleged victims were total sluts who were totally asking for it).

    Couple interesting links:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes#Stalin_period

    In a 1930s argument with black student Pierre Kalmek visiting Moscow from French colonial Africa, Dmitry Manuilsky emphasized that in America “whites have the privilege to lynch Negroes, but Negroes do not have the privilege to lynch whites.”[26] He called this a form of white chauvinism, and further stressed this asking: “Do we have a difference here between the salaries of Negro and white workers? Do we have the right to lynch Negro citizens?”[26]

    (emphasis mine)

    To You My Beloved Comrade — International Stalin Prize winner Paul Robeson, 1953

    Apparently, just like in the ex-USSR countries, you’ll see lots of Africans named “Mels” — Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    Russia use to be the darling of the political Left, now Russia is the darling of the political Right. What a difference a generation makes.
  155. In terms of black interests, Mugabe’s actually done his people well. Through a slow and low-key system of intimidation he managed to largely homogeneize his country.

    If Zuma can do the same, then these African states may set the precedent for other countries to take action against diversity in the future.

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    • Replies: @Romanian
    But he has done nothing for the inter-tribal conflict that the British merely paused!
  156. Now that I think about it, this development in South Africa might help explain why the Pundit Class (e.g., Richard Cohen of the NYT) has been so berserk over the global growth of populism. The populists in America aren’t actually going to come for the bankers and diamond merchants with pitchforks and flaming tires.

    They’re berserk because everything’s gone their way for a very long time. The princess makes a bunch of noise over a pea, what do you think she’s gonna do when someone takes her pillow?

    A hysterical people.

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  157. @Ulysses
    Steve if you really believed the media and others hate populism because they are afraid of black people killing Boers, I would question whether you've been paying attention for the last 20 years or so. As you've said yourself here, its about who/whom and the Boers have been consigned to destruction for at least 25 years, in no small part by Bush the Elder

    Not “killing Boers.”

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  158. @snorlax

    Was Stalin a vocal critic of how Blacks in America were treated during Jim Crow?
     
    Yup, as early as the 1910's, Lenin was writing about how the blacks were the "revolutionary class" in the American South.

    The Communist Party USA paid for the defense in the 1930's Scottsboro Boys case, the inspiration for To Kill a Mockingbird, and considered the start of the civil rights movement. (Amusingly, the defense argument — which, granted, was probably true — was that the alleged victims were total sluts who were totally asking for it).

    Couple interesting links:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes#Stalin_period

    In a 1930s argument with black student Pierre Kalmek visiting Moscow from French colonial Africa, Dmitry Manuilsky emphasized that in America "whites have the privilege to lynch Negroes, but Negroes do not have the privilege to lynch whites."[26] He called this a form of white chauvinism, and further stressed this asking: "Do we have a difference here between the salaries of Negro and white workers? Do we have the right to lynch Negro citizens?"[26]
     
    (emphasis mine)

    To You My Beloved Comrade — International Stalin Prize winner Paul Robeson, 1953

    Apparently, just like in the ex-USSR countries, you'll see lots of Africans named "Mels" — Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin

    Russia use to be the darling of the political Left, now Russia is the darling of the political Right. What a difference a generation makes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @snorlax

    Russia use to be the darling of the political Left, now Russia is the darling of the political Right. What a difference a generation makes.
     
    More like 4 years!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS2a44F5TgM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYGsadcBiFA
    , @Achmed E Newman

    Russia use to be the darling of the political Left, now Russia is the darling of the political Right. What a difference a generation makes.
     
    More like "The Soviet Union used to be the darling of the political Left, now Russia is the darling of the political true Right. What a difference a generation winning the Cold War makes.
  159. @Anonym
    Taking in white South Africans would be an interesting experience. Personally, I’m not a fan of the white South African personality.. they are brash, loud, aggressive etc.

    I quite like white SAs... I find them funny/amusing and they have some great stories. A lot of the men have a very healthy self respect for their own fighting abilities. "I was surrounded by 8 guys who picked a fight with me. It was lucky for them I was in a sporting mood...". I can't remember exactly what was said but the guy I remember could certainly fight.

    Living as a minority among unruly SSAs in a Detroit-like environment must be tough and from what I can see, breeds a very capable, no-nonsense human used to making things work against all odds. They remind me of people who have lived through war or depression, because they certainly understand the difference between need and want.

    As I said, I quite like their brash, aggressive, self-confident, no-BS, competent character especially if they have the ability to back it up. It always impresses me that the SAs were able to build their own nukes beginning in 1967, total population of around 20M and about 20% whites - 4M whites built 6 nukes. Respect.

    (We wuz hidden figgahz!)

    Anonym:

    They sound like Israelis?

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  160. @Wilkey
    A complete meltdown in South Africa would be beautiful. It would utterly and completely destroy any remaining argument for multiculturalism. When talking about mass immigration and the looming prospect of whites becoming minorities in our own countries we would never have to make any complicated intellectual arguments. All we would have to say is "South Africa."

    South Africa is destined to go the way of Zimbabwe. The sooner the better.

    I’m afraid it wouldn’t really change any minds. Liberals and even cuckservatives would just say it’s not a black problem (proof: St. Mandela), but rather with Zuma abandoning the principles of St. Mandela. And, besides, the SA whites had it coming.

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  161. @Kyle a
    And he could really send them over the collective edge by granting Puerto Rico independence. How glorious would that be?

    Brilliant!

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  162. wonder why you chose the example you did , random chance probably XD.

    Probably for a reason similar to Corvanus’ in always criticizing European Christians, and nobody else (certainly not Jews). :D

    It’s my usual schtick: somebody kicks the Europeans, I go over and kick the Jews.

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  163. @PV van der Byl
    Jack D (see #16) is basically correct.

    The only remote chance that whites have of remaining in South Africa for the long-term is if they all move to the Western Cape and establish a white/coloured rump state.

    And that really wouldn't be easy. Among other things, they would suffer a dramatic decrease in their standard of living.

    >>And that really wouldn’t be easy. Among other things, they would suffer a dramatic decrease in their standard of living.

    Ah, there’s the rub, because who could ever expect white folks to forsake maids, gardeners, leaf blowers, waiters, etc…… Too many whites, too often the ones with access to the megaphone – South Africa, Europe, The USA – have convinced themselves and convinced others who should know better that it is better to annihilate oneself than to endure live without these petty luxuries.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna

    Too many whites, too often the ones with access to the megaphone – South Africa, Europe, The USA – have convinced themselves and convinced others who should know better that it is better to annihilate oneself than to endure live without these petty luxuries.
     
    And no one's even proposing that. The awful spectre stalking these white ppl is having to pay market rates for these 'luxuries'..
    , @PV van der Byl
    One aphorism heard sometimes in South Africa was that whites preferred to die in their own beds rather than make their own beds.
  164. @snorlax
    I work in tech. Their CEO, Travis Kalanick, was considered too slow to condemn Trump's "Muslim ban," so now, comrade, he must be made an example of for his (suspected) thoughtcrime and overall white maleness. Uber delenda est.

    This country is fracturing not only along the lines that people have already discussed, but along the lines of businesses caught in taking sides for teams Red and Blue. Of course, its always been there- with defense and oil as Red, soft tech as blue, and ag enjoying both, but there’s a new level to this. It’s no longer broad brush sectors- it’s coming down to cake bakers, car drivers, shoe companies.

    The de-homogenizing of America is being followed by the geographic and ideological sorting in business. I see an accelerated moving around of people and economy beyond what has been typical. Business will feel more heat than ever to get in where they fit in, which could produce some really asymmetrical economic patterns.

    We could see in thirty years a new regionalism that is as easily as pronounced as pre-Civil War days. If culture critics have been railing against bland McAmerica, they didn’t need to worry-they could get all the diversity they want pretty soon.

    On the other hand, the Jacbin demand for uniformity in the SWPL/SJW culture could be a counterbalance. That’s the struggle playing out now.

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    • Replies: @SFG
    And you know, it's depressing as heck. Even in my liberal New York youth I never had any desire to deprive Alabama of Jesus, barbecue, and football. You don't like Chick-Fil-A, don't eat it. You don't have to invent health violations when they open a store in Manhattan. Jeez!

    The country's not so neatly geographically divided as during Civil War times. A new Civil War is going to really, really suck.
  165. @SPMoore8
    Very good response. However, keep in mind I am not arguing for a one state solution. I am arguing with people who want a one state solution with ethnic cleansing.

    Come to think of it, both sides want that. But I don't see it happening.

    It would be hard for the Israelis to retreat from any part of the Jordan and it would be hard for the Palestinians to renounce their claims to their own state. So I don't see that happening either.

    The one way to reduce friction would be for the Israelis to police/stop expanding in the WB, but they are only fitfully inclined to do either. The other way to reduce friction would be to treat the Palis more or less equally to the Israelis, and with a similar quality of life. I don't know how that is progressing.

    I think the short term / long term solution is some kind of devolution where the non-Jews have local authority but yet are not considered citizens of Israel (in the same way as, say, the 20%-25% of Israelis who are not Jewish are.) Over time, I think that would generate a more secular approach to Israeli identity. That in turn, is likely to lead to a more blended population, I mean, to be honest, I can't tell an Israeli Jew from a non-Jew all that easily, especially if the Jew in question is Middle Eastern in origin (which I believe is the majority of Israelis.) Finally, that would lead to the possibility of absorbing the non-Jewish populations.

    Of course, I'm just looking at this as a disinterested non-Jew. I realize that what I foresee is not going to satisfy either Jewish or Palestinian nationalists.

    “I mean, to be honest, I can’t tell an Israeli Jew from a non-Jew all that easily,”

    Palestinians on average are Browner than Israeli Jews. Have you seen Palestinian rapper DJ Khaled.

    http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1159/1216/files/dj_khaled_grande.png?8727686477349282745

    DJ Khaled definitely has more melanin in his skin than Benjamin Netanyahu and Natalie Portman.

    I am willing to bet DJ Khaled has never been called a White boy by any of his Black label mates (Lil Wayne, Birdman, Nicki Minaj, Tyga, etc) at Cash Money Records.

    You will never hear anybody describe DJ Khaled as Unbearably White and Stale Pale.

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    • Replies: @anon
    Surely Jeff but how about Suha Arafat ?? or Linda Sarsour without her hijab , Ayman Odeh ,Issam makhoul ?? Certainly not exotic browns . How about the Assad clan , I don't know if its possible to be more white .
    , @snorlax
    DJ Khaled is extremely Fat. Youngish White guys are sometimes extremely Fat as well, but they tend not to be as vain and extroverted as DJ Khaled if they are. Men under 50 who are extremely Fat, extremely vain and extremely extroverted are almost exclusively non-White. If DJ Khaled were a Skinny Ectomorph, his Cash Money Compatriots would definitely call him a White Boy.
    , @SPMoore8
    I specified Middle Eastern Jews: that doesn't apply to Natalie Portman or Benjamin Netanyahu, who are both European Jews. In fact, Netanyahu looks a lot like my father, who was a typical German and Scots Irish mix.

    I remember back in the day of the intifadas I used to check Hebrew and Arabic online resources to find out the details of what was going on. There'd invariably be a picture of some youth on the front page and I invariably guessed wrong; the one I thought was an Arab was Jewish, and vice versa.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but the Mizrahim (Middle Eastern Jews) are about 50% of the Jewish population, and I am saying they look a lot like the native Arabs.
  166. @Jefferson
    Russia use to be the darling of the political Left, now Russia is the darling of the political Right. What a difference a generation makes.

    Russia use to be the darling of the political Left, now Russia is the darling of the political Right. What a difference a generation makes.

    More like 4 years!

    Read More
  167. @L Woods
    Their youth have devolved into flip-flop wearing SoCal beach boy imitations from what I saw there.

    L Woods,

    I understand that the reason the white South Africans gave up apartheid was that they wanted to participate in international sports.

    Stupidity knows no bounds!

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  168. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @snorlax
    Yes, them too. And the Chinese recolonizers seem to be cleaning up Angola. All extremely dysfunctional by Western or even Latin American standards, of course.

    Truth be told ,Ive been to Zambia and it is not bad either . Along with the Vatican it is an officially Christian country. The capital is safe , there is not much crime and if you are into black girls ( I know most guys here are not ) then it is as close to a P-Paradise as you are going to find.

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  169. @Corvinus
    Of course, Zuma's proposal is foolish and illegal. But let's honestly look at why he is making this play by breaking down your statement.

    "Unfortunately, this is probably what’s coming down the line: blacks grab white land and resources in SA, fail to exploit them and run them into the ground."

    Well, white Europeans had been responsible for the conditions of blacks in South Africa, having invaded their land, taking control of the resources, and imposing Apartheid. Although, to be fair, Whitey did provide the Darkies with roads and indoor plumbing--you know, "civilization"--so I suppose the Darkies ought not be too upset when they were violently taken over.

    "Next, the country gets even poorer and more violent as Africans compete for the ever-dwindling resources left behind after the mass dispossession of whites."

    Well, there had been rival tribal groups who vied for control of South Africa before the Europeans came. Then the Europeans kept these groups from gaining political power, so those groups worked together toward a common cause. Now, those same factions are at it again, supposedly looking out for the interests of the nation.

    "Then more and more of them join the mass exodus to Europe as a last attempt to avoid starvation or being killed. Short version: Whitey always has to pay in the end."

    Indeed, what a shame. The toll on Whitey is immense. What I think should happen is that white people, since they invaded the country, should leave to avoid future problems. It's not their homeland...Europe is. Whitey should be repatriated or deported. Hey, don't blame me, I'm just using the same argument being made by some on the Alt-Right who call for non-whites, legal or illegal, to voluntarily vamoose because they are not "true" Americans. Propositional nation, what a farce!

    Corvinus echoes Commander in Chief Obamazuma’s interpretation of Zulu Nation retcontribution to the World Civilization by blaksplaining facts of life to Dutch Thugs:

    Somebody helped to create this unbelievable South African system that we have that allowed you to thrive.

    Somebody invested in roads and bridges.

    If you’ve got a business – you didn’t build that.

    Somebody else made that happen.”

    Hungarian Gorilla Mindset ain’t gonna work with this crowd, Corvinus.

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  170. @IBC
    Joe, Africa is number one in cocoa bean production (no double meaning intended). Ivory Coast is the top producer. Modernizing agriculture would probably make Africa a big exporter of food, but it could displace huge numbers of people as well. That's the question that many African countries are currently facing. In some ways, the problem is analogous to what's happening in parts of the US. Mechanization makes farming very efficient, but it doesn't directly employ that many people.

    but it could displace huge numbers of people as well. That’s the question that many African countries are currently facing. In some ways, the problem is analogous to what’s happening in parts of the US. Mechanization makes farming very efficient, but it doesn’t directly employ that many people.

    That’s what light manufacturing is for. Toys, clothing, furniture, handbags, clothing accessories, exercise equipment – the kind of thing that moved from the West to East Asia and is in the process of moving to South Asia, perhaps Africa, if salaries in East Asia continue to skyrocket. During the Colonial era, 90% of the US labor force used to farm for a living.

    They’ll do fine where they are. However, if we let them, many would prefer to move here. Heck, if we could increase our wages 10x by moving to Africa, while improving our living environment, most of us would probably do so.

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  171. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Jefferson
    "I mean, to be honest, I can’t tell an Israeli Jew from a non-Jew all that easily,"

    Palestinians on average are Browner than Israeli Jews. Have you seen Palestinian rapper DJ Khaled.
    http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1159/1216/files/dj_khaled_grande.png?8727686477349282745


    DJ Khaled definitely has more melanin in his skin than Benjamin Netanyahu and Natalie Portman.

    I am willing to bet DJ Khaled has never been called a White boy by any of his Black label mates (Lil Wayne, Birdman, Nicki Minaj, Tyga, etc) at Cash Money Records.

    You will never hear anybody describe DJ Khaled as Unbearably White and Stale Pale.

    Surely Jeff but how about Suha Arafat ?? or Linda Sarsour without her hijab , Ayman Odeh ,Issam makhoul ?? Certainly not exotic browns . How about the Assad clan , I don’t know if its possible to be more white .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "How about the Assad clan , I don’t know if its possible to be more white."

    It is possible to be more White, it's called having blond hair. Assad doesn't have the same hair color as Owen Wilson.
  172. @Jefferson
    "I mean, to be honest, I can’t tell an Israeli Jew from a non-Jew all that easily,"

    Palestinians on average are Browner than Israeli Jews. Have you seen Palestinian rapper DJ Khaled.
    http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1159/1216/files/dj_khaled_grande.png?8727686477349282745


    DJ Khaled definitely has more melanin in his skin than Benjamin Netanyahu and Natalie Portman.

    I am willing to bet DJ Khaled has never been called a White boy by any of his Black label mates (Lil Wayne, Birdman, Nicki Minaj, Tyga, etc) at Cash Money Records.

    You will never hear anybody describe DJ Khaled as Unbearably White and Stale Pale.

    DJ Khaled is extremely Fat. Youngish White guys are sometimes extremely Fat as well, but they tend not to be as vain and extroverted as DJ Khaled if they are. Men under 50 who are extremely Fat, extremely vain and extremely extroverted are almost exclusively non-White. If DJ Khaled were a Skinny Ectomorph, his Cash Money Compatriots would definitely call him a White Boy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "If DJ Khaled were a Skinny Ectomorph, his Cash Money Compatriots would definitely call him a White Boy."

    No they would not call DJ Khaled a White boy because he does not have White skin. You need your eyes checked if you think DJ Khaled and Benjamin Netanyahu are the same skin color.
  173. @snorlax
    DJ Khaled is extremely Fat. Youngish White guys are sometimes extremely Fat as well, but they tend not to be as vain and extroverted as DJ Khaled if they are. Men under 50 who are extremely Fat, extremely vain and extremely extroverted are almost exclusively non-White. If DJ Khaled were a Skinny Ectomorph, his Cash Money Compatriots would definitely call him a White Boy.

    “If DJ Khaled were a Skinny Ectomorph, his Cash Money Compatriots would definitely call him a White Boy.”

    No they would not call DJ Khaled a White boy because he does not have White skin. You need your eyes checked if you think DJ Khaled and Benjamin Netanyahu are the same skin color.

    Read More
    • Replies: @snorlax
    If DJ Khaled were a Skinny Ectomorph, he would look like fellow Palestinian rappers DAM:

    http://www.worldmusic.net/media/articles/article/1430.jpg

    If you made a post about DAM on Lipstick Alley, an internet forum for Black women, they would be pissed off that that these White boys are appropriating Rap Music.

    The Black women on Lipstick Alley will say that Mexicans like George Lopez are White.
  174. @MJMD
    What I loved about "District 9" was the way in which it worked as an allegory of two different things at the same time. What I hated about the people who reviewed it in Europe and North America was the fact that they inevitably only saw the one, the one they were familiar with (apartheid), and invariably seemed to have no awareness of the other (black South Africans' murderous hatred of illegal immigrants from the rest of Africa).

    Moreover, they seemed not to appreciate the fact that the allegory wasn't really soft-pedaled: the aliens were addicted to cat food, lived like animals, and frequently ripped people apart or beat them to death. A few of them were sympathetic, sure, and the social critique of the inhuman system to which they were subjected was entirely warranted, but Blomkamp (unlike, say, James Cameron) felt no need to make them either sexy or saints. Even worse were the Nigerian gangsters, all presented as murderous psychopaths. "District 9" is a movie that still holds up.

    MJMD, Excellent movie review, I give you four stars.

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  175. @Neoconned
    I have an attractive 40ish white South Africanfemale friend I'm try in to talk into marrying me ins exchange for citizenship.

    She told me she might just do it.....she sounds like a museum curator. Polished and refined.....

    I may have hit the jackpot.

    Neo, My wife married me in exchange for a vow to always love, honor and obey, of course she already was a US citizen. Oh, and I threw in a ring to sweeten the offer.

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    • Replies: @neoconned
    Youre a lucky man Buffalo, im not


    Played the dating game 20 years and I have had enough.

    I'll take the stability of a semi arranged marriage to more cock carousel sluts but to each their own
  176. @IBC
    Joe, Africa is number one in cocoa bean production (no double meaning intended). Ivory Coast is the top producer. Modernizing agriculture would probably make Africa a big exporter of food, but it could displace huge numbers of people as well. That's the question that many African countries are currently facing. In some ways, the problem is analogous to what's happening in parts of the US. Mechanization makes farming very efficient, but it doesn't directly employ that many people.

    IBC, I seem to remember that I saw a documentary where the Chinese bought up large parcels of and fenced it in. Excelled at farming that land, but for export back to China. The locals now want back in on the land they failed to farm.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    IBC, I seem to remember that I saw a documentary where the Chinese bought up large parcels of and fenced it in. Excelled at farming that land, but for export back to China. The locals now want back in on the land they failed to farm.
     
    Probably fake news. As a major former financial backer of Communist guerrilla movements in Africa (and Southeast Asia), they're probably more knowledgeable than most about the cost of trying to protect land holdings against even desultory guerrilla attacks. A more plausible explanation is that a telephone game got out of hand:

    https://qz.com/527570/the-real-story-behind-chinas-alleged-conquest-for-african-farmland/
  177. @AnotherDad

    The long-term outlook there is a wholesale expulsion of the Arabs. It’s only a matter of time because every new generation of Jews there is more religious and immune to the suicidal tendencies of the West. Israel’s combat officers are already majority-religious-nationalist.
     
    IJ, i tend to think there's a good likelihood of that as well.

    But is the demographic future of Israel actually trending more not to "religious nationalist" but to these ultra-Orthodox loons, who have great big ass families ... but the "men"--if you can call them that--just sit around and study the Torah all day on welfare from everyone else and have an exemption from military service. When you're most philogenitive group are parasites, that doesn't seem to bode real well.

    They refuse to serve in the military because Israel is a secular state. When Israel becomes a theocracy run by rabbis that inhibition will disappear and they will eagerly enlist.

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  178. @Jason Liu
    In terms of black interests, Mugabe's actually done his people well. Through a slow and low-key system of intimidation he managed to largely homogeneize his country.

    If Zuma can do the same, then these African states may set the precedent for other countries to take action against diversity in the future.

    But he has done nothing for the inter-tribal conflict that the British merely paused!

    Read More
  179. @Jefferson
    "I mean, to be honest, I can’t tell an Israeli Jew from a non-Jew all that easily,"

    Palestinians on average are Browner than Israeli Jews. Have you seen Palestinian rapper DJ Khaled.
    http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1159/1216/files/dj_khaled_grande.png?8727686477349282745


    DJ Khaled definitely has more melanin in his skin than Benjamin Netanyahu and Natalie Portman.

    I am willing to bet DJ Khaled has never been called a White boy by any of his Black label mates (Lil Wayne, Birdman, Nicki Minaj, Tyga, etc) at Cash Money Records.

    You will never hear anybody describe DJ Khaled as Unbearably White and Stale Pale.

    I specified Middle Eastern Jews: that doesn’t apply to Natalie Portman or Benjamin Netanyahu, who are both European Jews. In fact, Netanyahu looks a lot like my father, who was a typical German and Scots Irish mix.

    I remember back in the day of the intifadas I used to check Hebrew and Arabic online resources to find out the details of what was going on. There’d invariably be a picture of some youth on the front page and I invariably guessed wrong; the one I thought was an Arab was Jewish, and vice versa.

    Correct me if I’m wrong but the Mizrahim (Middle Eastern Jews) are about 50% of the Jewish population, and I am saying they look a lot like the native Arabs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "I remember back in the day of the intifadas I used to check Hebrew and Arabic online resources to find out the details of what was going on. There’d invariably be a picture of some youth on the front page and I invariably guessed wrong; the one I thought was an Arab was Jewish, and vice versa."

    Actor Dan Hedaya is a Middle Eastern Jew not a European Jew and he often plays Italian roles. He also played Richard Nixon.
    , @International Jew
    Israelis can tell who's who pretty easily from how they dress. And from the accent (and fluency) of their Hebrew. Palestinians from the territories know just basic Hebrew. Arab citizens of Israel sometimes know it very well, but they always have a distinctive accent.
  180. @Achmed E. Newman

    A complete meltdown in South Africa would be beautiful. It would utterly and completely destroy any remaining argument for multiculturalism. When talking about mass immigration and the looming prospect of whites becoming minorities in our own countries we would never have to make any complicated intellectual arguments. All we would have to say is “South Africa.”
     
    I've got to agree with Rob McX, Wilkey. I thought the same when I read your comment - there has already been plenty to learn from. Rob didn't add more to this so I will. People on this blog, of course, but probably 1/2 of the country have the sense to know enough from what happened in Rhodesia, what happened in Detroit and almost all city cores, and what is happening now in Europe to know multiculturalism is... hmmm, let's say .. unsound. They want this to stop, especially here.

    It's not that the other 1/2 don't know it's unsound either. They just don't want it to stop. That's mainly because they started it. They want things to go completely to hell in the white Western world, because that makes them feel good. They figure they'll be alright when the SHTF. They are mostly wrong about that.

    I don’t remember ever hearing much about how we needed to fight apartheid in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. There was, however, a huge and well-known political movement, led mostly by the Left, to eliminate apartheid in South Africa by starving/boycotting the country into submission.

    Everyone over a certain age knows about it. When South Africa crashes they’ll be able to link the end of apartheid to the collapse of what was once the richest country in Africa.

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  181. @Achmed E. Newman

    A complete meltdown in South Africa would be beautiful. It would utterly and completely destroy any remaining argument for multiculturalism. When talking about mass immigration and the looming prospect of whites becoming minorities in our own countries we would never have to make any complicated intellectual arguments. All we would have to say is “South Africa.”
     
    I've got to agree with Rob McX, Wilkey. I thought the same when I read your comment - there has already been plenty to learn from. Rob didn't add more to this so I will. People on this blog, of course, but probably 1/2 of the country have the sense to know enough from what happened in Rhodesia, what happened in Detroit and almost all city cores, and what is happening now in Europe to know multiculturalism is... hmmm, let's say .. unsound. They want this to stop, especially here.

    It's not that the other 1/2 don't know it's unsound either. They just don't want it to stop. That's mainly because they started it. They want things to go completely to hell in the white Western world, because that makes them feel good. They figure they'll be alright when the SHTF. They are mostly wrong about that.

    I don’t remember ever hearing much about how we needed to fight apartheid in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. There was, however, a huge and very well-know movement led mostly by the Left to eliminate apartheid in South Africa by starving/boycotting the country into submission.

    Everyone over a certain age knows about it. When South Africa crashes they’ll be able to link the end of apartheid to the collapse of what was once the richest country in Africa.

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    • Replies: @snorlax

    Everyone over a certain age knows about it.
     
    There's the rub. The median American is 38 years old. A 38-year-old was 10 when the apartheid government agreed to cede power in 1989 and 15 when they actually did in 1994. And the South African crash is probably still some years away.
    , @Achmed E Newman
    You've been writing about logic and cause and effect, Wilkey. You've got to know that the Globalists and Commies really don't care what your arguments are about and how logical they are. That's what my previous comment was saying: They WANT this destruction of the white-built countries to happen. The people that follow the Globalist/Commie leaders, the useful idiots, well, they won't understand your argument and any easily arrived at conclusion because they are, by definition, idiots.

    I wouldn't say your arguments are lost on these people, but they DO NOT CARE!

    (yes I do remember all the anti-apartheid protests, etc. from the middle 1980's.)
  182. @Flip
    I would give American citizenship to every white South African who wanted it.

    I would give American citizenship to every white South African who wanted it.

    This blog notes some tweets likening Charles Murray to Hitler, but it seems to me that this Zuma dude is a lot more like Hitler.

    What does it take to be considered a persecuted minority?

    Surely white South Africans are a persecuted minority. I would sponsor a family to come to the USA

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  183. South African Jan Smuts is also an interesting character and cut quite a swath from 1900 through WW2. Smuts was an important Boer commander fighting against the British during the Boer War, but after the defeat became a commander in the British Army and during WW1 joined the British war cabinet. He wound up being a Field Marshal during WW2, and may well have become Prime Minister of the UK if Churchill had kicked the bucket. Smuts wasn’t a Milner fan, nor Milner a fan of him, so even the opposition South African parties had a lot of influence on the UK.

    It would have been interesting for Smuts, a former wartime combatant against the UK, to become Prime Minister.

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  184. @Rob McX
    Unfortunately, this is probably what's coming down the line: blacks grab white land and resources in SA, fail to exploit them and run them into the ground. Next, the country gets even poorer and more violent as Africans compete for the ever-dwindling resources left behind after the mass dispossession of whites. Then more and more of them join the mass exodus to Europe as a last attempt to avoid starvation or being killed. Short version: Whitey always has to pay in the end.

    Of course foreign aid should be cut off, but first white countries need to close the "send us aid or we'll come to your country" blackmail loophole.

    Of course foreign aid should be cut off, but first white countries need to close the “send us aid or we’ll come to your country” blackmail loophole.

    Well, call me a bleeding heart liberal, but I think that we should continue to send aid, however in only one form, birth control products. No food, no money. Only birth control.

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  185. @Buffalo Joe
    Lot, I understand resource extraction as a revenue stream for some African nations, gold, oil, cobalt etc., but I don't think agri. goods are exported in any significant amounts.

    Agri is a big part of the African economy even if it isn’t a huge exporter. Gains in African ag have mostly gone into feeding a rapidly growing population.

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Lot, I agree, a rapidly expanding population needs land to live on and water, both of which are essential to production agriculture, not subsistence farming. A race too close to call. Thank you for your reply.
  186. @Wilkey
    I don't remember ever hearing much about how we needed to fight apartheid in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. There was, however, a huge and very well-know movement led mostly by the Left to eliminate apartheid in South Africa by starving/boycotting the country into submission.

    Everyone over a certain age knows about it. When South Africa crashes they'll be able to link the end of apartheid to the collapse of what was once the richest country in Africa.

    Everyone over a certain age knows about it.

    There’s the rub. The median American is 38 years old. A 38-year-old was 10 when the apartheid government agreed to cede power in 1989 and 15 when they actually did in 1994. And the South African crash is probably still some years away.

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  187. @Jack Hanson
    They'll go to NZ with the rest of their family.

    It always amused me when liberals say they'll "go to NZ". Outside of the Cormandel and the Hibiscus Coast, you run into a LOT of White SA and Rhodesian types who make me look like some kind of swpl.

    It always amused me when liberals say they’ll “go to NZ”

    People can’t just “go to New Zealand.” They have immigration laws which they will enforce.

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  188. @Wilkey
    I don't remember ever hearing much about how we needed to fight apartheid in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. There was, however, a huge and very well-know movement led mostly by the Left to eliminate apartheid in South Africa by starving/boycotting the country into submission.

    Everyone over a certain age knows about it. When South Africa crashes they'll be able to link the end of apartheid to the collapse of what was once the richest country in Africa.

    You’ve been writing about logic and cause and effect, Wilkey. You’ve got to know that the Globalists and Commies really don’t care what your arguments are about and how logical they are. That’s what my previous comment was saying: They WANT this destruction of the white-built countries to happen. The people that follow the Globalist/Commie leaders, the useful idiots, well, they won’t understand your argument and any easily arrived at conclusion because they are, by definition, idiots.

    I wouldn’t say your arguments are lost on these people, but they DO NOT CARE!

    (yes I do remember all the anti-apartheid protests, etc. from the middle 1980′s.)

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  189. @PV van der Byl
    "South Africa is an oddly influential place."

    During the 1930s, the Financial Times had just two permanent overseas correspondents: Paris and Johannesburg.

    “South Africa is an oddly influential place.”

    During the 1930s, the Financial Times had just two permanent overseas correspondents: Paris and Johannesburg.

    Is the gold? diamonds? uranium?

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    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Yes. DeBeers and South African gold shares were a staple of British equity portfolios from 1901 to late in the 20th century.
  190. @SPMoore8
    I specified Middle Eastern Jews: that doesn't apply to Natalie Portman or Benjamin Netanyahu, who are both European Jews. In fact, Netanyahu looks a lot like my father, who was a typical German and Scots Irish mix.

    I remember back in the day of the intifadas I used to check Hebrew and Arabic online resources to find out the details of what was going on. There'd invariably be a picture of some youth on the front page and I invariably guessed wrong; the one I thought was an Arab was Jewish, and vice versa.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but the Mizrahim (Middle Eastern Jews) are about 50% of the Jewish population, and I am saying they look a lot like the native Arabs.

    “I remember back in the day of the intifadas I used to check Hebrew and Arabic online resources to find out the details of what was going on. There’d invariably be a picture of some youth on the front page and I invariably guessed wrong; the one I thought was an Arab was Jewish, and vice versa.”

    Actor Dan Hedaya is a Middle Eastern Jew not a European Jew and he often plays Italian roles. He also played Richard Nixon.

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  191. @German_reader
    I actually somewhat hope this happens, it might negatively affect the image of African blacks in the West and make it easier to keep them out of Europe.
    In retrospect the Afrikaners were probably wrong to hand over power the way they did in the early 1990s.

    I actually somewhat hope this happens, it might negatively affect the image of African blacks in the West and make it easier to keep them out of Europe.
    In retrospect the Afrikaners were probably wrong to hand over power the way they did in the early 1990s.

    Hey, what about Putin, might he want some Afrikaners?

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  192. @Seamus Padraig
    FYI: Mugabe has since scrapped the Zimbabwean dollar completely, replacing it with a mini-IMF-style basket of currencies, including the Pound sterling, the US dollar and the Chinese RMB. This was a very clever, typically Mugabe move: unlike 10-15 years ago, it would now be impossible for any superpower to attack Zimbabwe's currency without also attacking their own. It also, of course, completely cured the inflation problem, and since 2009, GDP growth has been quite robust.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwean_dollar#Abandonment_and_demonetisation
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/zimbabwe/gdp

    To make a long story short, what occurred between 2000-2009 in Zimbabwe was not domestic economic mismanagement, but an attempted color-revolution, sponsored by Wall St., George Soros, and the City of London.

    Dollarization can’t change fundamentals. An economy is dependent on trade, ability to finance deficits, attract foreign investment & accumulate debt. Zimbabwe runs a massive trade imbalance importing more than it exports. It has minimal to no access to capital markets & attracts minima foreign investment. There are a shortages of dollars & other hard currencies. Their economy is imploding.

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  193. @snorlax
    Kenya, Ghana and De Beers-run colony Botswana seem to be the (relatively) least screwed-up countries in SSA.

    They’re all ex-British colonies probably not coincidental.

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  194. @Daniel H
    >>And that really wouldn’t be easy. Among other things, they would suffer a dramatic decrease in their standard of living.

    Ah, there's the rub, because who could ever expect white folks to forsake maids, gardeners, leaf blowers, waiters, etc...... Too many whites, too often the ones with access to the megaphone - South Africa, Europe, The USA - have convinced themselves and convinced others who should know better that it is better to annihilate oneself than to endure live without these petty luxuries.

    Too many whites, too often the ones with access to the megaphone – South Africa, Europe, The USA – have convinced themselves and convinced others who should know better that it is better to annihilate oneself than to endure live without these petty luxuries.

    And no one’s even proposing that. The awful spectre stalking these white ppl is having to pay market rates for these ‘luxuries’..

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  195. @Flip
    I would give American citizenship to every white South African who wanted it.

    The several white South African immigrants I’ve met are all liberals.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    The several white South African immigrants I’ve met are all liberals.
     
    That's the problem. The Boers who won the Battle of Blood River in 1838 would have been useful immigrants. The white South Africans who willingly gave their own country away are not likely to be useful to anybody.
    , @Jefferson
    "The several white South African immigrants I’ve met are all liberals."

    You have to be quite Liberal if you are a White person who wants to live in a Black country.
  196. @yaqub the mad scientist
    This country is fracturing not only along the lines that people have already discussed, but along the lines of businesses caught in taking sides for teams Red and Blue. Of course, its always been there- with defense and oil as Red, soft tech as blue, and ag enjoying both, but there's a new level to this. It's no longer broad brush sectors- it's coming down to cake bakers, car drivers, shoe companies.

    The de-homogenizing of America is being followed by the geographic and ideological sorting in business. I see an accelerated moving around of people and economy beyond what has been typical. Business will feel more heat than ever to get in where they fit in, which could produce some really asymmetrical economic patterns.

    We could see in thirty years a new regionalism that is as easily as pronounced as pre-Civil War days. If culture critics have been railing against bland McAmerica, they didn't need to worry-they could get all the diversity they want pretty soon.

    On the other hand, the Jacbin demand for uniformity in the SWPL/SJW culture could be a counterbalance. That's the struggle playing out now.

    And you know, it’s depressing as heck. Even in my liberal New York youth I never had any desire to deprive Alabama of Jesus, barbecue, and football. You don’t like Chick-Fil-A, don’t eat it. You don’t have to invent health violations when they open a store in Manhattan. Jeez!

    The country’s not so neatly geographically divided as during Civil War times. A new Civil War is going to really, really suck.

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  197. @AndrewR
    Our dear host conveniently omits the ethnicity of "Sir" Henry Strakosch, Churchill's financier sugar daddy, although there is admittedly little room for the imagination here.

    Every time.

    Strakosch married late in life. Was he also gay? That would have fit with the Rhodes crowd and much of the English establishment, as well as gay Jews worldwide.

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  198. @Harry Baldwin
    The several white South African immigrants I've met are all liberals.

    The several white South African immigrants I’ve met are all liberals.

    That’s the problem. The Boers who won the Battle of Blood River in 1838 would have been useful immigrants. The white South Africans who willingly gave their own country away are not likely to be useful to anybody.

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    • Replies: @Ganderson
    More questions for the South Africans on this thread:

    My impression is that a large % of the current white South African diaspora is English-speaking. True, or not?

    My impression, too, was that during the heyday of apartheid that many English speakers were vocal in there opposition to the National Party, but tended to pull the lever for it when in the privacy of the voting booth.

    What is the ratio of white Afrikaans speakers to white English speakers currently? Do the two groups still dislike each other? What does Van Der Merwe have to say?

    , @Unladen Swallow
    I think a lot of the most talented have left in the last 20-odd years. There are quite a few South Africans in the tech field in the English speaking countries. I dont think many large companies are interested in investing there for a variety of reasons, most notably a quasi-Marxist party in total control of the government.
  199. @Kyle McKenna
    Fun stuff, to be sure, but it's also worth mentioning that the land now comprising South Africa was nearly devoid of population when the first European settlers arrived. Too cold in the winter for nekked negroes.

    “Fun stuff, to be sure, but it’s also worth mentioning that the land now comprising South Africa was nearly devoid of population when the first European settlers arrived. Too cold in the winter for nekked negroes.”

    Not quite accurate on your part.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khoikhoi#Arrival_of_Europeans

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  200. @Big Bill
    I like the cut of your jib, Corvinius! You have gotten past the biggest moral hump and recognize that ethnic cleansing is a live option. But by focusing on your preferred option you miss a host of other opportunities.

    There's outright extermination (I'm thinking Hutu/Tutsi style machete slaughter: cheap, low cost).

    There's also a "two [or 3,or 4]state solution" with big walls (a la Israel).

    Possibly an underground homegrown insurrection (I'm thinking of the underground bomb/machine gun/bullet factories in Israel leading up to the 1948 war).

    Then there's population exchanges: swap the 2-3 million horny Muslim and African dudes that have arrived in Europe in the last couple years for a similar number of Boers. [although given the SA blacks hatred of Nigerian and Zimbabwean border jumpers, that might be a tough sell.]

    But MY favorite is a weaponized Crisper/CAS9 vector to destroy fertility without hurting anyone. With a few billion fewer people in Africa the flora and fauna would likely recover in a few decades.

    There are lots of ways to solve the problem other than ethnic cleansing. Now that you have made that moral leap, you should broaden your horizons and look outside the box. Welcome, and good luck!

    “I like the cut of your jib, Corvinius! You have gotten past the biggest moral hump and recognize that ethnic cleansing is a live option. But by focusing on your preferred option you miss a host of other opportunities.”

    Phenomenal strawman that you built here.

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  201. @International Jew

    BTW, this is exactly how I feel about Israel. They should have given the Palestinians their scrap of land, built the wall there, and called it quits. But they had to get greedy, use them as cheap labor, and keep grabbing land in settlements. Now they’re going to be forced into a one-state solution where they’ll eventually be outnumbered and then killed.
     
    If Israel ever loses its will to keep the West Bank and Gaza Arabs subdued and politically neutralized, it won't have the will to defend even a rump Jewish state confined to the Mediterranean shore.

    The long-term outlook there is a wholesale expulsion of the Arabs. It's only a matter of time because every new generation of Jews there is more religious and immune to the suicidal tendencies of the West. Israel's combat officers are already majority-religious-nationalist. Don't let the likes of Thomas Friedman and Richard Cohen give you the wrong idea; the meduan Israeli now doesn't give a rip about the Palestinians' sorry asses.

    The long-term outlook there is a wholesale expulsion of the Arabs. It’s only a matter of time because every new generation of Jews there is more religious and immune to the suicidal tendencies of the West.

    There was a time when Arab countries seemed ready to absorb the Palestinian population. Then came Black September in Jordan. Followed by the Palestinian role in kicking off Lebanon’s civil war. And the Palestinian role in Saddam’s occupation of Kuwait. In Syria, Palestinians have been a significant part of the rebels fighting against Assad aka the leader of the Alawite apostate regime. Is there a single Arab country that looks forward to a destabilizing wave of fifth columnist Palestinian refugees?

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  202. @Jefferson
    "If DJ Khaled were a Skinny Ectomorph, his Cash Money Compatriots would definitely call him a White Boy."

    No they would not call DJ Khaled a White boy because he does not have White skin. You need your eyes checked if you think DJ Khaled and Benjamin Netanyahu are the same skin color.

    If DJ Khaled were a Skinny Ectomorph, he would look like fellow Palestinian rappers DAM:

    http://www.worldmusic.net/media/articles/article/1430.jpg

    If you made a post about DAM on Lipstick Alley, an internet forum for Black women, they would be pissed off that that these White boys are appropriating Rap Music.

    The Black women on Lipstick Alley will say that Mexicans like George Lopez are White.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "If DJ Khaled were a Skinny Ectomorph, he would look like fellow Palestinian rappers DAM:"

    If DJ Khaled were skinny his pigmentation wouldn't change, he would still be Brown.
  203. @Anonymous
    Churchill gave up the British Empire in order to help Uncle Joe Stalin save his.

    You mean expand his.

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  204. @lavoisier
    Your idea has more merit than you realize. You believe that the dysfunction in Africa is the result of whitey. Perhaps it is, perhaps it is not.

    But if it is the problem, then black people taking full control of their lands, their resources, and their government should make things much better than the way they were when whitey was screwing everything up.

    Unfortunately, as you perhaps know all too well, things in Africa have gotten much, much worse since independence from whitey. In fact, many black people are calling for whitey to come back and re-colonize their lands. Eventually, perhaps, all the damage that has been caused by whitey will be overcome by the black people of Africa and we will see a flowering of civilization across the continent in the decades to come.

    I am open to that possibility, however remote it seems to me.

    Perhaps you should be open to the possibility that things will continue to deteriorate as whitey becomes extinct on the continent, and that the failings of these nations are not the fault of whitey. Perhaps you can even start thinking of black people as human beings, capable of working out their own destinies without the help of good white liberals such as yourself.

    But I am not holding my breath.

    “Your idea has more merit than you realize. You believe that the dysfunction in Africa is the result of whitey. Perhaps it is, perhaps it is not.”

    “and that the failings of these nations are not the fault of whitey.”

    The dysfunction in Africa is a combination of two potent forces–the continued impact of white colonialism and perpetual black intertribal violence.

    “But if it is the problem, then black people taking full control of their lands, their resources, and their government should make things much better than the way they were when whitey was screwing everything up.”

    Should make things much better will take considerable time and effort. Take into account this quotation.

    “Our possession of the West Indies gave us the strength, the support, but especially the capital, the wealth, at the time when no other European nations possessed such reserve, which enabled us to come through the great struggles of the Napoleonic Wars. The keen competition of commerce in the 18th and 19th centuries enabled us not only to acquire this appendage of possessions which we have, but also to lay the foundations of that commercial and financial leadership which when the world was young,…enabled us to make our great position in the world.” (‘The Long Road To Humanity’, by Stanton A. Coblentz page 325 and Introduction To African Civilisations John G. Jackson page 3O6)

    Africa was the stepping stone for European greatness. This continent has yet to recover from this massive exploitation. To be sure, Asians and Africans and South Americans also engaged in some form of expansion, some form of colonizing, some form of barbarianism. If those on the Alt Right want to celebrate the greatness of the European’s ability to develop technology and medicine and “civilization”, it best also acknowledge the horrific toll and expense it had on native peoples, and that within the past century they are on the path to self-reliance.

    “Unfortunately, as you perhaps know all too well, things in Africa have gotten much, much worse since independence from whitey.”

    Absolutely. It is to be expected. Africa only “earned” its independence since World War II.

    “In fact, many black people are calling for whitey to come back and re-colonize their lands.”

    Who? I’m sure you are able to provide sources.

    “Eventually, perhaps, all the damage that has been caused by whitey will be overcome by the black people of Africa and we will see a flowering of civilization across the continent in the decades to come. I am open to that possibility, however remote it seems to me.”

    A LONG recovery, indeed.

    “Perhaps you can even start thinking of black people as human beings, capable of working out their own destinies without the help of good white liberals such as yourself.”

    I’m not a liberal nor a leftist, just an educated white married man with children who is able to make his own decisions about race and culture.

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    • Replies: @lavoisier
    Thank you for your thoughtful and comprehensive letter.

    I have read from several different sources, including the Daily Mail, the BBC, and the Economist, that many Africans from various countries in Africa have expressed an interest in being re-colonized. Even apparently a plurality of Jamaicans feel that way as published in the Daily Mail on June 29 ,2011.

    Many Asian nations have broken off from the yoke of colonial rule to develop thriving civilizations, despite the damage done by colonization, so I don't think it is fair to claim that it is too short a time frame from independence to see improvement.

    Here is the problem for those of us alive today and our children:

    Africa is a demographic time bomb. Because Africans are failing, miserably, to develop even minimally functional societies, Africans are fleeing their nations to come to civilizations that have been created by whitey. Because we are compassionate people and foolish at the same time, we are letting these people come to our civilizations in large numbers. The predictable result is not a multicultural paradise, but more and more problems and a more difficult life for our children. In short, the problems of Africa are our problems because we allow their problems to be our problems.

    I genuinely hope that you are right and that Africa and African peoples can develop functional societies and advance the cause of civilization. And I do not defend the exploitation of another group of people simply because you are stronger or more advanced technologically. But we have to develop the will to stop assuming responsibility for all the problems in Africa.

    I agree with you: Let's get out and stay out. Any "help" we can offer will likely be criticized for not being enough and predictably seen as another example of whitey screwing things up again for Africa. Let's treat African people like human beings and let them assume full responsibility for their own civilization and their own lives.

    But can we both agree that letting them come to the West in large numbers may not be the best idea for us?
    , @bomag

    Africa was the stepping stone for European greatness.
     
    Seems more a modern bromide than reality.

    Your quoted Mr. Coblentz may have thought colonies were a source of wealth, but that doesn't make him correct. Portugal had extensive colonies, but wasn't especially wealthy or great; Germany had no colonies and did as well as anyone.

    I've read some accounting breakdowns that showed colonies being a net drain on the home countries.

    A country's wealth comes from its technology, industry, and value added activities. The initial raw products from a colony are a small part of the inputs. Japan and Germany have become far richer trading for raw materials rather than trying to colonize the world to secure such supplies.
    , @Negrolphin Pool

    Absolutely. It is to be expected. Africa only “earned” its independence since World War II.
     
    I just read that Hong Kong's per capita GDP is only $800, that means no organized economy to speak of. Wait, oh, my bad, that's the per capita GDP number for the bantu paradise the Belgians unconditionally surrendered 67 years ago.
  205. @Glossy
    the global growth of populism

    Someone suggested to me this theory about the cause of this growth:

    The smart phone revolution brought some new people to the Internet a few years ago. In developed countries these tended to be older people. Everyone else had already been conncted to the Internet before then. Populist parties' electorates are older and more downscale than voters in general. When a person switches from getting their news from TV to getting it from the Internet, he moves away from the mainstream.

    According to this theory the thing that tipped the scales in America might have been a certain number of older white voters switching from Fox News to something a bit less tame on the Internet. Drudge, Breitbart, maybe other sites I'm not aware of.

    I, along with Hillary Clinton and the Dinosaur Media, blame the internet. But internet phones? Aren’t they like 10 years old? Why did they make the difference now, instead of earlier?

    I guess global, populist, anti-mainstream movements can be slow going. I think the refugee crisis and particularly personalities like Trump had a lot more to do with it. Plus, the global elite is getting stupider and more obvious.

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    • Replies: @Glossy
    Smart phones appeared a long time ago. But the point when they stopped making dumb phones, and it became impossible to buy one, even for an oldster who didn't want to learn to use a new type of device - that was much more recent.
  206. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @dearieme
    A few months ago I was talking to a young chap recently back from visiting several countries in southern and eastern Africa. His main impression is how much pleasanter the people are than West Africans, both those he's met in Nigeria and those he's met in Britain. I was amused because an old Africa hand had told me the same thing decades ago. Datum + datum = data.

    His second impression was less obvious; the most unpleasant of the countries he visited was South Africa because of its permanent air of violence being just around the corner. Even less obvious, perhaps, was that he found Rwanda a well run, clean, peaceful place, a fine place to visit if you'd like to see gorillas in the wild.

    Make of that what you will.

    I recall reading about Johannesburg, some years ago, post-apartheid, that you couldn’t walk on the streets even in daytime, even in a group.
    A few years ago I read a biography of Paul Kagame. It was slightly hagiographical, but insisted that you could now walk alone in Kigali at night.
    Paul Kagame might not measure up to Lee Kuan Yew (and I really don’t know), but I suspect Africa would do better with more Paul Kagame’s and fewer Julius Malema’s.

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    • Agree: snorlax
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Regarding Julius Malema:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bdeizHM9OU
    Check out 0:35.

    1488ers won't like it. I love it.
    , @Joe Schmoe

    I recall reading about Johannesburg, some years ago, post-apartheid, that you couldn’t walk on the streets even in daytime, even in a group.
    A few years ago I read a biography of Paul Kagame. It was slightly hagiographical, but insisted that you could now walk alone in Kigali at night.
     
    Back when world cup soccer was in SA, Joe Posnanski reported that the hotel staff told him emphatically not to go out on the street at all ever. Not during the day or night. He reported that the place was surreal, and he is not one to be sensationalist, etc.
  207. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @MJMD
    What I loved about "District 9" was the way in which it worked as an allegory of two different things at the same time. What I hated about the people who reviewed it in Europe and North America was the fact that they inevitably only saw the one, the one they were familiar with (apartheid), and invariably seemed to have no awareness of the other (black South Africans' murderous hatred of illegal immigrants from the rest of Africa).

    Moreover, they seemed not to appreciate the fact that the allegory wasn't really soft-pedaled: the aliens were addicted to cat food, lived like animals, and frequently ripped people apart or beat them to death. A few of them were sympathetic, sure, and the social critique of the inhuman system to which they were subjected was entirely warranted, but Blomkamp (unlike, say, James Cameron) felt no need to make them either sexy or saints. Even worse were the Nigerian gangsters, all presented as murderous psychopaths. "District 9" is a movie that still holds up.

    I loved District 9, and I definitely perceived what you are talking about when I saw it. But I’m an American who had followed South Africa for awhile, with a curious eye.

    Read More
  208. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Anonymous
    I recall reading about Johannesburg, some years ago, post-apartheid, that you couldn't walk on the streets even in daytime, even in a group.
    A few years ago I read a biography of Paul Kagame. It was slightly hagiographical, but insisted that you could now walk alone in Kigali at night.
    Paul Kagame might not measure up to Lee Kuan Yew (and I really don't know), but I suspect Africa would do better with more Paul Kagame's and fewer Julius Malema's.

    Regarding Julius Malema:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bdeizHM9OU
    Check out 0:35.

    1488ers won’t like it. I love it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Make South Africa Great Again:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cegdR0GiJl4
    (all up in the interwebs)
  209. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    A lot of South Africa emigres to Canada especially medical doctors. A third of all general practitioners in Saskatchewan alone.

    “South Africans are an unusually well-educated and wealthy group of migrants. Immigration data going back as far as 1980 shows that nearly 80 per cent of South Africans came as skilled migrants and just 3 per cent as refugees. One in four earns more than $200,000 annually, roughly the top 1 per cent in Canada, according to a survey of the post-1990 diaspora conducted by Prof. Crush; more than 40 per cent earn more than $100,000, equivalent to the top 6 per cent.”

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/south-african-diaspora-a-study-in-apartheid/article16201295/?page=all

    Read More
  210. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Anonymous
    Regarding Julius Malema:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bdeizHM9OU
    Check out 0:35.

    1488ers won't like it. I love it.

    Make South Africa Great Again:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cegdR0GiJl4
    (all up in the interwebs)

    Read More
  211. @SPMoore8
    Very good response. However, keep in mind I am not arguing for a one state solution. I am arguing with people who want a one state solution with ethnic cleansing.

    Come to think of it, both sides want that. But I don't see it happening.

    It would be hard for the Israelis to retreat from any part of the Jordan and it would be hard for the Palestinians to renounce their claims to their own state. So I don't see that happening either.

    The one way to reduce friction would be for the Israelis to police/stop expanding in the WB, but they are only fitfully inclined to do either. The other way to reduce friction would be to treat the Palis more or less equally to the Israelis, and with a similar quality of life. I don't know how that is progressing.

    I think the short term / long term solution is some kind of devolution where the non-Jews have local authority but yet are not considered citizens of Israel (in the same way as, say, the 20%-25% of Israelis who are not Jewish are.) Over time, I think that would generate a more secular approach to Israeli identity. That in turn, is likely to lead to a more blended population, I mean, to be honest, I can't tell an Israeli Jew from a non-Jew all that easily, especially if the Jew in question is Middle Eastern in origin (which I believe is the majority of Israelis.) Finally, that would lead to the possibility of absorbing the non-Jewish populations.

    Of course, I'm just looking at this as a disinterested non-Jew. I realize that what I foresee is not going to satisfy either Jewish or Palestinian nationalists.

    There is a way for Israel to get everything it wants.

    1. Gaza is absorbed into Egypt. Or the Sinai becomes an independent state with Gaza as part of it.

    2. The West Bank is absorbed by Jordan, a majority Palestinian state, and Israel keeps blocks of it that Israel has settled and wants. Israel also gives up a few Palestinian villages in Israel proper, which effects a degree of population transfer.

    3. Israel formally takes Jerusalem in total and tells the world to deal with it.

    At which point Egypt or Jordan or Sinai may end up as the result of civil unrest declaring way on Israel. The ensuing conflict would then create a no man’s land in Gaza and The West Bank. Israel then wins and closes its borders to encompass all of that land.

    There is also a way for the Palestinians to get what they want.

    1. A younger leadership takes over in the West Bank and forms links with Arabs in Israel proper.

    2. They begin to demand their rights as de facto citizens and the vote. They draw Israel to overeact and Israel bow looks like it is fighting the new Gandhi.

    3. Gaza drops Hamas and joins in the civil disobedience.

    4. Masses of Arabs begin to walk between Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

    5. They get the vote and rights as Israeli citizens.

    6. Then begin the slow march to demographic conquest. They implement affirmative action. They follow by voting themselves special protected rights. Followed by compensated redistribution. Then confiscation. Then massacres and finally Israelis all leave.

    The problem for both is that the Israelis are too liberal to achieve plan 1 and the Palestinians are too illiberal to achieve plan 2.

    Of course the demographic changes in Europe and America may mean that Israel ends up totally isolated whatever happens.

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  212. @Anonymous
    Whites built 'South Africa'. It was only after it was glaringly more prosperous than the pestholes around it that blacks established, that blacks started pouring in and became numerically dominant, and started turning it into a pesthole. The tale of South Africa is really a warning of the consequences of accepting third world immigration.

    Europe and the US could have learned an important lesson, but both seem damned to learn the hard way.

    Why didn’t the Whites limit immigration?

    Read More
  213. @anon

    You mean, like Jews did to Palestinians in Palestine.
     
    Or the Jordanians did to the Palestinians in Palestine , or the Turks did to the Cypriots in Cyprus , or the Turks did to the Kurds in Kurdistan , or Russia did to the Chechens in Chechnya , or Russia did to the Dagestanis in Dagestan , or Russia did to the Ukranians in Ukraine , or Russia did to the people of Kaliningrad in Kaliningrad , or China did to Tibeteans in Tibet , or China did to the people of Xinyang in Xinyang , or Indonesia did to the Papuans in Papua , Or Morocco did to the Western Saharans in Western Sahara or Sudan did to the Darfuris in Darfur &c. &c. &c. ..............wonder why you chose the example you did , random chance probably XD.

    Are Russia, Jordan, China being called America’s BFFs and the “only democracy” in their regions? As far as I know all three are called dictatorships, especially Russia, which is probably the least dictatorial of the bunch. Russia is also called the most important and dangerous enemy of the US and the West in general.

    Read More
    • Replies: @biz
    Those countries are called dictatorships or autocratic because they are. Israel is called a democracy because it is, with frequent elections with universal sufferage and changes of government.
  214. @Twinkie
    This is just a desperation move by Zuma. The ANC was *crushed* during the last local election. Even black South Africans are tired of the incompetence and corruption of the ANC, especially under Zuma. There is panic in the ANC, because "the unthinkable" is now possible - ANC's national loss (and loss of the presidency).

    From google searches, Zuma does not seem to have the ANC rank and file on board, the caucus. Unlike the Zimbabwean Military, the SA military lives a fairly posh lifestyle that cannot be supported by subsistence farming. IMO, A black captain in the SA military has reliable water, sewer and electricity, and is willing to gun down any mob of people who plan to endanger that. Oddly the primary complaint of ordinary SA blacks is open borders importing Zimbabweans. SA blacks don’t want SA turning into Zimbabwe.

    Read More
  215. This is a letter from a South African farmer to the editor of TheSouthAfrican.com (February 24,2017):

    An open letter from a farmer to those who would murder.

    I am really angry tonight. I have tried to keep out of this but I am really so sad tonight.

    Today I had to ask a good friend to teach my 13 year old how to shoot and to refresh my 23 year old on gun handling. This is why I am so sad and angry. I thought we had left this behind in ’94 but it appears not. Farmers (and I take the 5th here) are under systematic siege. Farmers of every race and creed in S.A. are not taken seriously, who are we but the people who ultimately put the food on your table? We get no tax breaks, no financial assistance of any sort and are expected to upfront capital costs months in advance in the hope that when a crop comes in we can make some sort of a small meager profit only to plough (no pun intended) the profits once again back into the next crop. Over and over again. Only to have one more challenge of daily fear for their lives that they too will become a statistic of this barbaric Hate Crime called Farm Murders!

    So you who do not respect us are making me go out and teach my 13 year old how to defend her life! At the end of a barrel! You are forcing me to introduce her to a life I never wanted for her, nor have taught her. From tiny I have spent many hours teaching her equality, acceptance, and respect for the greater man no matter his or her place in life. As did my Norwegian father do for me. Something I try very hard to live daily in my words and actions. But you have taken my lessons and made a mockery of them, you have taken the innocence of a 13 year old and forced me to expose her to the evil in this world! You are making her check doors, lock and double lock twice and live in fear in her own home jumping at every shadow or sound. How dare you rob her of that great innocence! How dare you take my lessons in life of tolerance and diversity and turn it into an “us and them”. I don’t do us and them, never have and never will. You are robbing her of the opportunity of making this SA a better place and you are forcing me to take the necessary steps to make sure my family is safe! You are making us pick up arms, when arms were never needed. But I and we will, we are proudly South African born to this land of many opportunities and you will not get the better of us. We will go down fighting at your peril!

    I try in my daily life to see always the good and am mindful because of the complex situation we are in due to past non transformation. But when it comes to you and me, understand one thing, no matter which card I carry and no matter how much I try change past perceptions daily, you come for us in our “farm” our safe place and home and try to harm us, the playing fields are levelled and it will be you and me! RIP THE 30 FARMERS, THEIR WIVES AND CHILDREN KILLED, ATTACKED AND TORTURED IN SOUTH AFRICA IN FEBRUARY 2017. Just so bloody sad. Please respect my frustration. I hope I have worded this correctly without fame or foe and if you comment rather comment on the tragedy we are facing.

    Theresa Edwards lives in KZN, works in LED in Local Government and is a Published Children’s Book Author. She was allowed 24 years ago to foster and then adopt a black abandoned baby as a “test” case for Cross Cultural Adoptions which was frowned upon at the time. Her Daughter is now 24 studying Law and Politics at UKZN. She has a 13 year old daughter who came as a nice “surprise” at 40 as she was told she would never have children! She lost her husband who was a well-respected farmer and her best friend in 2015 sadly from Pneumonia and the Super Bug contracted in a local hospital.

    https://www.thesouthafrican.com/read-an-open-letter-from-a-farmer-to-those-who-would-murder/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ed
    This is why I think they win a war outright. They've been practicing, training for this day for years. They'll also have Coloured allies. The problem would be English & other white ethnics. I'm not sure they can be counted upon to take up arms against black South Africans. They'll probably just flee which I suppose is better than them assisting Black South Africans.
  216. @snorlax
    If DJ Khaled were a Skinny Ectomorph, he would look like fellow Palestinian rappers DAM:

    http://www.worldmusic.net/media/articles/article/1430.jpg

    If you made a post about DAM on Lipstick Alley, an internet forum for Black women, they would be pissed off that that these White boys are appropriating Rap Music.

    The Black women on Lipstick Alley will say that Mexicans like George Lopez are White.

    “If DJ Khaled were a Skinny Ectomorph, he would look like fellow Palestinian rappers DAM:”

    If DJ Khaled were skinny his pigmentation wouldn’t change, he would still be Brown.

    Read More
    • Replies: @snorlax
    But your apparent pigmentation can change based on the lighting conditions in which you are photographed. He doesn't look so dark here: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nDTu9BUHbiU/maxresdefault.jpg
  217. @Harry Baldwin
    The several white South African immigrants I've met are all liberals.

    “The several white South African immigrants I’ve met are all liberals.”

    You have to be quite Liberal if you are a White person who wants to live in a Black country.

    Read More
  218. @anon
    Surely Jeff but how about Suha Arafat ?? or Linda Sarsour without her hijab , Ayman Odeh ,Issam makhoul ?? Certainly not exotic browns . How about the Assad clan , I don't know if its possible to be more white .

    “How about the Assad clan , I don’t know if its possible to be more white.”

    It is possible to be more White, it’s called having blond hair. Assad doesn’t have the same hair color as Owen Wilson.

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  219. I’ve noted that Thailand seems to have a large population of white ( mainly but not exclusively Anglo ) Sth Africans working as English teachers
    Simply put there are few employment opportunities for young white Sth Africans in Sth Africa .

    Another area of concern is the Africanisation ( ie dumbing down ) of once respectable SAf university qualifications which makes seeking opportunities abroad even more difficult

    Read More
  220. @Jefferson
    "If DJ Khaled were a Skinny Ectomorph, he would look like fellow Palestinian rappers DAM:"

    If DJ Khaled were skinny his pigmentation wouldn't change, he would still be Brown.

    But your apparent pigmentation can change based on the lighting conditions in which you are photographed. He doesn’t look so dark here: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nDTu9BUHbiU/maxresdefault.jpg

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "But your apparent pigmentation can change based on the lighting conditions in which you are photographed. He doesn’t look so dark here:"

    That's still not White skin. In some pictures he looks Brown skin and in some pictures he looks Olive skin, but there is never any pictures where DJ Khaled is the same White skin color as Steve Sailer.

    , @anon
    He looks like Andrew Zimmern !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Oh the humanity
  221. @snorlax
    But your apparent pigmentation can change based on the lighting conditions in which you are photographed. He doesn't look so dark here: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nDTu9BUHbiU/maxresdefault.jpg

    “But your apparent pigmentation can change based on the lighting conditions in which you are photographed. He doesn’t look so dark here:”

    That’s still not White skin. In some pictures he looks Brown skin and in some pictures he looks Olive skin, but there is never any pictures where DJ Khaled is the same White skin color as Steve Sailer.

    Read More
  222. Perhaps instead of requiring a 2/3 majority to amend the property law, the framers should have said that the current law governing land title was immutable as long as the grass is green and the sky is blue.

    Read More
  223. @Flip
    I would give American citizenship to every white South African who wanted it.

    I would give American citizenship to every white South African who wanted it.

    How about if we give American citizenship to every black South African who wants it.

    The white South Africans would be a majority then.

    It’s a win, win, win.

    The third win would be for the non-South Africans who could then continue the current legal and illegal immigration into SA. Only they would be in much greater demand because of the demographic vacuum created by black South African emigration to the US.

    Actually that should be win, win, win, win.

    I forgot to count the win for the US.

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  224. @AndrewR
    Our dear host conveniently omits the ethnicity of "Sir" Henry Strakosch, Churchill's financier sugar daddy, although there is admittedly little room for the imagination here.

    Every time.

    Steve did not conveniently omit anything.

    He get this way when he hasn’t had the chance to recently play a round of golf.

    Besides, pointing out the Jew-nections is not anti-Semitism per se.

    Read More
  225. @snorlax
    Kenya, Ghana and De Beers-run colony Botswana seem to be the (relatively) least screwed-up countries in SSA.

    I heard Zambia isn’t bad either since the 1990s. http://reason.com/archives/2017/02/28/in-praise-of-jurisdictional-competition

    Read More
  226. @Miro23
    This is a letter from a South African farmer to the editor of TheSouthAfrican.com (February 24,2017):

    An open letter from a farmer to those who would murder.

    I am really angry tonight. I have tried to keep out of this but I am really so sad tonight.

    Today I had to ask a good friend to teach my 13 year old how to shoot and to refresh my 23 year old on gun handling. This is why I am so sad and angry. I thought we had left this behind in ’94 but it appears not. Farmers (and I take the 5th here) are under systematic siege. Farmers of every race and creed in S.A. are not taken seriously, who are we but the people who ultimately put the food on your table? We get no tax breaks, no financial assistance of any sort and are expected to upfront capital costs months in advance in the hope that when a crop comes in we can make some sort of a small meager profit only to plough (no pun intended) the profits once again back into the next crop. Over and over again. Only to have one more challenge of daily fear for their lives that they too will become a statistic of this barbaric Hate Crime called Farm Murders!

    So you who do not respect us are making me go out and teach my 13 year old how to defend her life! At the end of a barrel! You are forcing me to introduce her to a life I never wanted for her, nor have taught her. From tiny I have spent many hours teaching her equality, acceptance, and respect for the greater man no matter his or her place in life. As did my Norwegian father do for me. Something I try very hard to live daily in my words and actions. But you have taken my lessons and made a mockery of them, you have taken the innocence of a 13 year old and forced me to expose her to the evil in this world! You are making her check doors, lock and double lock twice and live in fear in her own home jumping at every shadow or sound. How dare you rob her of that great innocence! How dare you take my lessons in life of tolerance and diversity and turn it into an “us and them”. I don’t do us and them, never have and never will. You are robbing her of the opportunity of making this SA a better place and you are forcing me to take the necessary steps to make sure my family is safe! You are making us pick up arms, when arms were never needed. But I and we will, we are proudly South African born to this land of many opportunities and you will not get the better of us. We will go down fighting at your peril!

    I try in my daily life to see always the good and am mindful because of the complex situation we are in due to past non transformation. But when it comes to you and me, understand one thing, no matter which card I carry and no matter how much I try change past perceptions daily, you come for us in our “farm” our safe place and home and try to harm us, the playing fields are levelled and it will be you and me! RIP THE 30 FARMERS, THEIR WIVES AND CHILDREN KILLED, ATTACKED AND TORTURED IN SOUTH AFRICA IN FEBRUARY 2017. Just so bloody sad. Please respect my frustration. I hope I have worded this correctly without fame or foe and if you comment rather comment on the tragedy we are facing.
     

    Theresa Edwards lives in KZN, works in LED in Local Government and is a Published Children’s Book Author. She was allowed 24 years ago to foster and then adopt a black abandoned baby as a “test” case for Cross Cultural Adoptions which was frowned upon at the time. Her Daughter is now 24 studying Law and Politics at UKZN. She has a 13 year old daughter who came as a nice “surprise” at 40 as she was told she would never have children! She lost her husband who was a well-respected farmer and her best friend in 2015 sadly from Pneumonia and the Super Bug contracted in a local hospital.

     

    https://www.thesouthafrican.com/read-an-open-letter-from-a-farmer-to-those-who-would-murder/

    This is why I think they win a war outright. They’ve been practicing, training for this day for years. They’ll also have Coloured allies. The problem would be English & other white ethnics. I’m not sure they can be counted upon to take up arms against black South Africans. They’ll probably just flee which I suppose is better than them assisting Black South Africans.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    They’ll also have Coloured allies.

    This strategy didn't work all that well for the French in Haiti.
    , @Miro23
    If it came to a Civil War, I don't know who would win (there seems to be a big difference of opinion in this thread) but plenty of White South Africans would emigrate either way. If they won it would still be a bad place to live with a hostile Black majority.

    I think the point is that this is a very Liberal lady who wants to build a multi-cultural South Africa but there's a contradiction in what she 's saying:

    "How dare you take my lessons in life of tolerance and diversity and turn it into an “us and them”. I don’t do us and them, never have and never will."
     
    "Diversity" unfortunately has a built in "Us and Them" with each race holding to its identity which equals a barrier between people in the same country and inevitable comparisons of one race vs. another. Basically it doesn't work, as this lady can now see (when it's too late). The traditional occupants and majority of this land are Black (of one tribal group or another), so at the most basic level the land is theirs rather than hers, however much tolerance and goodwill she has.

    The answer is to forget about "Diversity" and re-introduce the "Melting Pot".

    A genuine European melting pot has been proven to work but a very mixed race one like Brazil seems to fail as citizens rank themselves according to skin tone (whiter the better) - but even here it may have worked if less people were integrated over a much longer time in a more stable and unified society (i.e. if it was done more slowly and carefully).

    I seems to be a question of how many and how fast, and with what degree of commitment.
  227. @Corvinus
    "Your idea has more merit than you realize. You believe that the dysfunction in Africa is the result of whitey. Perhaps it is, perhaps it is not."

    "and that the failings of these nations are not the fault of whitey."

    The dysfunction in Africa is a combination of two potent forces--the continued impact of white colonialism and perpetual black intertribal violence.

    "But if it is the problem, then black people taking full control of their lands, their resources, and their government should make things much better than the way they were when whitey was screwing everything up."

    Should make things much better will take considerable time and effort. Take into account this quotation.

    “Our possession of the West Indies gave us the strength, the support, but especially the capital, the wealth, at the time when no other European nations possessed such reserve, which enabled us to come through the great struggles of the Napoleonic Wars. The keen competition of commerce in the 18th and 19th centuries enabled us not only to acquire this appendage of possessions which we have, but also to lay the foundations of that commercial and financial leadership which when the world was young,...enabled us to make our great position in the world.” (‘The Long Road To Humanity’, by Stanton A. Coblentz page 325 and Introduction To African Civilisations John G. Jackson page 3O6)

    Africa was the stepping stone for European greatness. This continent has yet to recover from this massive exploitation. To be sure, Asians and Africans and South Americans also engaged in some form of expansion, some form of colonizing, some form of barbarianism. If those on the Alt Right want to celebrate the greatness of the European's ability to develop technology and medicine and "civilization", it best also acknowledge the horrific toll and expense it had on native peoples, and that within the past century they are on the path to self-reliance.

    "Unfortunately, as you perhaps know all too well, things in Africa have gotten much, much worse since independence from whitey."

    Absolutely. It is to be expected. Africa only "earned" its independence since World War II.

    "In fact, many black people are calling for whitey to come back and re-colonize their lands."

    Who? I'm sure you are able to provide sources.

    "Eventually, perhaps, all the damage that has been caused by whitey will be overcome by the black people of Africa and we will see a flowering of civilization across the continent in the decades to come. I am open to that possibility, however remote it seems to me."

    A LONG recovery, indeed.

    "Perhaps you can even start thinking of black people as human beings, capable of working out their own destinies without the help of good white liberals such as yourself."

    I'm not a liberal nor a leftist, just an educated white married man with children who is able to make his own decisions about race and culture.

    Thank you for your thoughtful and comprehensive letter.

    I have read from several different sources, including the Daily Mail, the BBC, and the Economist, that many Africans from various countries in Africa have expressed an interest in being re-colonized. Even apparently a plurality of Jamaicans feel that way as published in the Daily Mail on June 29 ,2011.

    Many Asian nations have broken off from the yoke of colonial rule to develop thriving civilizations, despite the damage done by colonization, so I don’t think it is fair to claim that it is too short a time frame from independence to see improvement.

    Here is the problem for those of us alive today and our children:

    Africa is a demographic time bomb. Because Africans are failing, miserably, to develop even minimally functional societies, Africans are fleeing their nations to come to civilizations that have been created by whitey. Because we are compassionate people and foolish at the same time, we are letting these people come to our civilizations in large numbers. The predictable result is not a multicultural paradise, but more and more problems and a more difficult life for our children. In short, the problems of Africa are our problems because we allow their problems to be our problems.

    I genuinely hope that you are right and that Africa and African peoples can develop functional societies and advance the cause of civilization. And I do not defend the exploitation of another group of people simply because you are stronger or more advanced technologically. But we have to develop the will to stop assuming responsibility for all the problems in Africa.

    I agree with you: Let’s get out and stay out. Any “help” we can offer will likely be criticized for not being enough and predictably seen as another example of whitey screwing things up again for Africa. Let’s treat African people like human beings and let them assume full responsibility for their own civilization and their own lives.

    But can we both agree that letting them come to the West in large numbers may not be the best idea for us?

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "I have read from several different sources, including the Daily Mail, the BBC, and the Economist, that many Africans from various countries in Africa have expressed an interest in being re-colonized."

    Specific links?

    "Even apparently a plurality of Jamaicans feel that way as published in the Daily Mail on June 29 ,2011."

    Exact link?

    "Many Asian nations have broken off from the yoke of colonial rule to develop thriving civilizations, despite the damage done by colonization, so I don’t think it is fair to claim that it is too short a time frame from independence to see improvement."

    Which specific nations are you referring to?

    "Africa is a demographic time bomb. Because Africans are failing, miserably, to develop even minimally functional societies, Africans are fleeing their nations to come to civilizations that have been created by whitey."

    Whenever there has been significant disruption in one's society and culture, a result will be groups of people desiring to flee those horrific conditions. Moreover, those "civilizations created by whitey" were in part built on the backs of those same people who are experiencing political and economic turmoil.

    "Because we are compassionate people and foolish at the same time, we are letting these people come to our civilizations in large numbers."

    I would agree that immigration to the United States ought to be reduced. But Americans are not "foolish" in their compassion. In a number of cases, it is driven by their belief in God's good grace and will. But the United States was founded by many groups of people. We are a mutt nation.

    "The predictable result is not a multicultural paradise, but more and more problems and a more difficult life for our children. In short, the problems of Africa are our problems because we allow their problems to be our problems."

    Not necessarily. Depends on who is allowed to enter our country. Remember, the same arguments were made by nativists toward the Irish and Germans, the Italians and Poles. Nativists at that time (mid 1800's, late 1800's) did NOT look at these groups as their "fellow whites", but as inferior ethnic groups with strange customs who would denigrate American society.

    "I genuinely hope that you are right and that Africa and African peoples can develop functional societies and advance the cause of civilization."

    Please define civilization from your perspective so I am clear as to what is your meaning.

    "I agree with you: Let’s get out and stay out. Any “help” we can offer will likely be criticized for not being enough and predictably seen as another example of whitey screwing things up again for Africa. Let’s treat African people like human beings and let them assume full responsibility for their own civilization and their own lives."

    Unless the African peoples request our assistance. Just ask the Chinese.

    "But can we both agree that letting them come to the West in large numbers may not be the best idea for us?"

    What constitutes large numbers from your vantage point?
  228. @Joe Schmoe


    “South Africa is an oddly influential place.”

    During the 1930s, the Financial Times had just two permanent overseas correspondents: Paris and Johannesburg.
     
    Is the gold? diamonds? uranium?

    Yes. DeBeers and South African gold shares were a staple of British equity portfolios from 1901 to late in the 20th century.

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  229. Surprised no one has mentioned that a land grab is already occurring, albeit at a low level.

    South Africa has a legal process analogous to adverse possession in the US that allows blacks to claim white land.

    Basically, a group of Africans will show up on your farm one day and suggest you and your family might feel more comfortable somewhere else. If you abandon the land, the blacks have it. If you refuse, they will claim that they/their tribe always lived on the land and ask the government to give them possession of the land.

    This is already happening. The only reason it doesn’t happen more frequently is that most Africans lack the agency to go through all that paperwork and would rather just have their chief give them all remaining white lands in one fell swoop.

    Read More
    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I wanted to mention it when the thread was just starting, but forgot it. Thanks for bringing that up.