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From the BBC:

Earliest modern human found outside Africa
3 hours ago

Apidima 1 (shown here in a reconstruction) has all the characteristics of a modern human skull

Researchers have found the earliest example of our species (modern humans) outside Africa.

A skull unearthed in Greece has been dated to 210,000 years ago, at a time when Europe was occupied by the Neanderthals.

The sensational discovery adds to evidence of an earlier migration of people from Africa that left no trace in the DNA of people alive today.

The findings are published in the journal Nature.

Researchers uncovered two significant fossils in Apidima Cave in Greece in the 1970s.

One was very distorted and the other incomplete, however, and it took computed tomography scanning and uranium-series dating to unravel their secrets.

The more complete skull appears to be a Neanderthal. But the other shows clear characteristics, such as a rounded back to the skull, diagnostic of modern humans.

What’s more, the Neanderthal skull was younger.

“Now our scenario was that there was an early modern group in Greece by 210,000 years ago, perhaps related to comparable populations in the Levant, but it was subsequently replaced by a Neanderthal population (represented by Apidima 2) by about 170,000 years ago,” said co-author Prof Chris Stringer, from London’s Natural History Museum.

 
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  1. Anonymous[371] • Disclaimer says:

    Researchers have found the earliest example of our species (modern humans) outside Africa.

    This is a confusing sentence. Is this the earliest example of our species that has been found in the world, or the earliest example that has been found outside Africa.

    • Replies: @adreadline
  2. David Reich in his book has a section “Eurasia as a hothouse of human evolution”, pp 67-71.

    This evidence seems consistent with that speculation.

    • Replies: @Hail
  3. “The sensational discovery adds to evidence of an earlier migration of people from Africa that left no trace in the DNA of people alive today.”

    What if it turned out the earlier migration was from Europe into Africa? There were those pre-historic hominid teeth they found near Mainz a few years back. Oh, the horror!

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  4. It sounds like these archaeologists came upon a site in an ancient good neighborhood this time, what with no axe-holes in the skulls and that sort of thing. From the ancient primitive tweets out of the Apidima Cave metro area, these 210 millennia-ago people were known to have had great compassion for the other species, having had very little contact as of yet.

    I believe that the Neanderthal was adopted, and this last part is just conjecture here, mind you, but the adult was likely half of a Homo couple that didn’t feel it wise to bring a child into that uncertain world of 207,981 BC. It’s ironic really, as that era was a pretty good time to be a Homo …

    … Sapiens, of course, what’s with the look?

    • LOL: bomag, Realist, MBlanc46
  5. are we still going with modern humans dating back 300,000 years now? i’m not exactly up on the latest thinking. but it’s further back than 100,000 years, evidently.

    for a long time i envisioned human africans appearing on the savannas 100,000 years ago, while neanderthals were living on the continents to the north. that’s probably off by 200,000 years, going by our data about when bushmen and negros separated into distinct groups.

  6. J.Ross says:

    This is why open borders types should not have any government job.

    https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/banned-chinese-security-cameras-are-almost-impossible-to-remove

    U.S. federal agencies have five weeks to rip out Chinese-made surveillance cameras in order to comply with a ban imposed by Congress last year in an effort to thwart the threat of spying from Beijing.

    But thousands of the devices are still in place and chances are most won’t be removed before the Aug. 13 deadline. A complex web of supply chain logistics and licensing agreements make it almost impossible to know whether a security camera is actually made in China or contains components that would violate U.S. rules.

    Funnily enough, everywhere else in security, you err on the side of caution. But when it comes to enabling our enemies to spy on us this stuff is like really hard and stuff you guys for real.

  7. Polynikes says:

    If homo sapiens came “out of Africa,” where is it thought that Neanderthals originated from? Independently of African based or just earlier and branched off (and then reintergrated to some degree)?

    • Replies: @backup
    , @Don't Look at Me
  8. Skyp says:

    Forgive my ignorance, but why must the lineage of this newfound skull ultimately be from Africa, rather than any other continent?

  9. Jake says:

    How long before this theory is labeled the first white racist genocide of Numinous Negroes?

    • Replies: @anon
  10. guest says:

    Early modern? Exactly how far back does modernity go?

    That’s the problem with the concept. New modernity keeps happening perpetually.

  11. J.Ross says:

    Ben Garrison is libertarian cartoonist and long-time Trump supporter. He’s not anti-Semitic. A specific guy using photoshop type tools edited his cartoons to make him look classically anti-Semitic and was caught (there’s a whole thing about it on Garrison’s site naming the guy). This is not merely a waste of time. It points up the avoidable stupidity of making witchfinding your governmental model. It’s bad that Ben was defamed but it’s also stupid and un-American that the defamation is taken so seriously, and is so easily weaponized. Ten minutes of work at a keyboard and anybody could be in Ben’s shoes.
    That was years ago. Everyone knows that Ben Garrison is not anti-Semitic and that all the photoshopped cartoons have legitimate (original) versions. Everyone except Donald Trump, who has disinvited Ben Garrison from a White House meeting after pressure from dishonest activist-journalists.
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/artist-accused-of-blatant-anti-semitism-disinvited-from-white-house

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
  12. As for me and my house, we have wondered how reliable is a theory which comes from a brain which evolved from an ape brain? But we have never considered either belief in evolution or special creation a point of fellowship.

    Good men and women can agree to disagree and be civil to each other.

  13. OT: And then they got Roland Fryer.

    Harvard Suspends Roland Fryer, Star Economist, After Sexual Harassment Claims
    The move sidelines the researcher without pay for two years, and closes his lab, in a case that has roiled the profession.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/10/business/economy/roland-fryer-harvard.html?action=click&module=News&pgtype=Homepage&login=email&auth=login-email

    • Replies: @bomag
  14. OT

    A Detroit festival charged white people $20 and black people $10, then they got hit with backlash:

    (CNN)An Afrofuturist group says it reversed its decision to charge white people more for tickets to its Detroit festival than black and brown people because they received threats, an artist dropped out and a ticketing website threatened to unpublish their event.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/07/us/afrofuture-fest-charging-wipe-people-trnd/index.html

    Kill all the white men … but not before we take their money.

    • Replies: @bruce county

  15. “Are you suggesting skulls migrate?”

  16. Sean says:

    One was very distorted and the other incomplete, however, and it took computed tomography scanning and uranium-series dating to unravel their secrets.

    The more complete skull appears to be a Neanderthal. But the other shows clear characteristics, such as a rounded back to the skull, diagnostic of modern humans.

    What’s more, the Neanderthal skull was younger.

    “Now our scenario was that there was an early modern group in Greece by 210,000 years ago, perhaps related to comparable populations in the Levant, but it was subsequently replaced by a Neanderthal population (represented by Apidima 2) by about 170,000 years ago,” said co-author Prof Chris Stringer, from London’s Natural History Museum.

    The relevant characteristic diagnostic of early modern humans is they replaced all others. So these were merely modern humans in the shape of their brains boneycase case ; they did not have the intelligence to create clothes and other technology, and got out-competed by the furry apes known as Neanderthals .

  17. TWS says:

    How do they know there’s no genetic trace?

  18. Multiple waves of immigration out of Africa, so this makes sense.

  19. bomag says:

    Sounds like immigrants replaced the natives.

    A lesson from 210,000 years ago; you’d think we would have learned it by now.

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
  20. Anon[353] • Disclaimer says:

    These are “Lucy” style traditional paleontologists. It’s not at all clear what actual bone fragments they found for the non Neanderthal skull. There’s a historical tenancy for these guys to extrapolate from a bone splinter to a complete new National Geographic cover story level missing link. Did they find an inner ear that contains DNA? The jury is still out on this one.

  21. The sensational discovery adds to evidence of an earlier migration of people from Africa that left no trace in the DNA of people alive today.

    The Greeks ethnically cleansed them.

  22. trelane says:

    So modern man, H. sapiens, gained an evolutionary foothold in Greece very early on but was later replaced by Neanderthals? Sample size N=2

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
  23. Anon[152] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    Hilarious article about the college majors of the U.S. women’s soccer team members. Very few had any business being in college. They should have just gone pro out of high school, which two in fact did, Pugh (put some time in at UCLA) and Horan.

    The majors:

    6 members: Communications or Advertising/PR or Graphic Design/Web Page Development (Communications is a classic easy BS major for boneheads, similar to Education or Management)

    5 members: Sociology or African-American Studies (SJW majors)

    4 members: Kinesiology or Exersice/Sports Studies (fake major designed to keep valuable male athletes from flunking out and losing eligibility, now exepanded to include women)

    2 members: English (nowadays, basically another SJW bastion)

    Alex Morgan: Political Economy of Industrial Societies (sounds like bullshit and not really quant economics)

    Davidson: Management Science and Engineering at Stanford (seems to require a single computer science course and a general econ course, job placement is all over the place in types of jobs)

    O’Hara: Science, Technology, and Society at Stanford (a pattern emerges here at Stanford, a STEMy name with few STEM course requirements, here zero STEM courses in core requirements; hilarious course required called “Genes and Identity,” which sounds interesting, but wait, it’s in the African-American Studies Department)

    https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/technology-and-learning/academic-majors-us-women’s-world-cup-championship-soccer-team

  24. Skull News

    What? No Bones?

  25. Unless I’m missing something, the article is wrong. The oldest homo sapiens were found in Morocco, at around 300,000 years old:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jebel_Irhoud

    • Replies: @HA
  26. Hail says: • Website
    @candid_observer

    In other words,

    Multiregionalism > “Out of Africa”

    Alternatively, if you must insist on “Out of” somewhere,

    Out of Eurasia > Out of Africa

    • Replies: @Svevlad
  27. RW says:

    “The sensational discovery adds to evidence of an earlier migration of people from Africa that left no trace in the DNA of people alive today.“

    So we were wiped out by the Neanderthals, then we came back and wiped out the Neanderthals. Maybe.

  28. J.Ross says:

    Video evidence of height discrimination in trendy areas

    • LOL: Mr McKenna
    • Replies: @Lanny
  29. Hodag says:

    For a few generations the Chinese Anthropological community has been stressing multiregionalism on human evolution.

    I always put it up to Han chauvinism. More and more it looks like my belief was wrong.

    • Replies: @Hail
  30. Hail says: • Website
    @Hodag

    We had it right. Then we were led astray.

    The 1990s and 2000s were the high-water-mark of the Afroncentric school, when few Western voices were willing to oppose the by-then-hegemonic Out of Africa theory.

    In the 1990s and 2000s, Out of Africa became part of Western culture itself (“We all come from Africa;” “We’re all Africans”), a kind of bizarre revival of the Aryan narrative but inverted: A prehistoric, all-conquering race of heroes being implied, but this time they were — “Africans”!

    Then came the 2010s and hardline Out of Africa, once firmly clung to, was discredited. People still cling to weaker and watered-down versions of OoA. The current generation of Western scholars are pretty wedded to Out of Africa, rhetorically. Will wait to see if they concede in the 2020s, or not.

  31. Skyp says:

    I always subscribed to the “out of Africa” theory.

    With that as my premise, I relegated sub-Saharan black folks generally as the race that was too dumb to leave. The same phenomena is demonstrated by black folks who still live in the Deep South.

    Big shoutout to Charles Murray, while I’m here!

  32. HA says:
    @Alexander Turok

    “The oldest homo sapiens were found in Morocco, at around 300,000 years old…”

    I interpret the article as saying that these are not the oldest remains of modern homo sapiens, but rather the oldest remains of modern homo sapiens outside of Africa.

    In other words, the article is not calling into question the out-of-Africa hypothesis (and if it were, I’m guessing that would likely be the headline).

  33. JMcG says:

    Dienekes, the blogger, seems to have gone mostly silent now, but I’m sure he is smiling at this news.

    • Replies: @Uncle Remus
  34. Lot says:
    @Anon

    “4 members: Kinesiology or Exersice/Sports Studies

    fake major designed to keep valuable male athletes from flunking out and losing eligibility, now exepanded to include women“

    So what if it might be easier than other majors?

    Look at the curriculum. It is just what you’d want a practical-minded future PE teacher or sports coach to study in college.

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    , @Anon
  35. I wonder if they can sequence some of the protein to confirm the ID.

  36. Lanny says:
    @J.Ross

    Jesus Christ, I miss Brooklyn!

    It may be the last place you can see what essentially is a quality one act written by Arthur Miller, play out in front of you in real time, first thing in the fucking morning!

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  37. @Lanny

    He’ll be back tomorrow morning complaining about how bald guys can’t get chicks either.

    • Replies: @Lanny
  38. @Digital Samizdat

    Incredible….

    The group says its reasoning for doubling ticket prices for white people was because white people have the privilege to attend festivals in “POC populated cities.” In other words, the group says, white people can afford tickets to any event in any city, while black and brown people cannot.

    Hmmm… I wonder why that is. maybe because they waste their money on wigs, nails, chrome wheels and gold teef.

    What a despicable race.

    • Replies: @bomag
    , @Jonathan Mason
  39. Lanny says:
    @Mr McKenna

    He’ll be back tomorrow morning complaining about how bald guys can’t get chicks either.

    If he does, he’ll have to learn his lesson again: Guys from Staten Island are torn-deaf to pathos.

    You’re just noise that needs to be punched.

  40. @Lot

    Why would they need to have gone to college?

  41. Anon[174] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot

    Training PE teachers is not what colleges should be doing. College is for smart people, not dumb people. Only the top 10 percent of the population should be going to college. If a college graduate somehow ends up as a high school teacher, then an investigation should be launched, possibly resulting in the decertification of the college.

    Athletes should go pro out of high school or earlier, and take a one or two year sports education certificate course at a vocational school if they want to teach PE.

    • Replies: @Realist
  42. Anonymous[500] • Disclaimer says:

    Prior to the year 2000, the ‘strong out of Africa’ hypothesis, which postulated a common ancestry for all extant humans from as recently as 50,000 years ago, was the prevailing dogma and orthodoxy. It was pushed very hard by the anthropological establishment.

    Discoveries and advances since the millennium have rendered that view untenable. The deep evolutionary history and lineages of extant humans are far far more ancient and confounded than that hypothesis could ever account for.

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
  43. @Anon

    Communications is a traditional sports recruit degree. Bubba really can’t speak or write good English, but he has a Communications Degree. Or most of one, since he turned pro before finishing school.

  44. backup says:

    The sensational discovery adds to evidence of an earlier migration of people from Africa that left no trace in the DNA of people alive today.

    But there is *some* trace of a very old, pre Out of Africa, anatomically modern human admixture in Papua’s. Roughly 2% if I recall correctly.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5164938/

  45. backup says:

    Furthermore, the other genetic legacy these modern humans could have left was a switch in mtDNA in neanderthals. It has long been discovered that the age of the split mtDNA in neanderthals and modern humans is substantially younger than the split of Y-DNA in Neanderthals and modern humans. When the oldest neanderthals were examined, the 430,000 year old Sima de los Huesos samples, the extracted mtDNA was closer to Denisovans than to Neanderthals, yet nuclear DNA clearly showed these samples were clearly on their way to become neanderthals. One of the solutions for that paradox would be the introgression of very ancient modern human mtDNA into neanderthals. We know neanderthals went through several serious bottle necks so this would explain how it got so wide spread.

    The existence of a contact zone in Greece is very interesting in that respect.

  46. Time to concede that Chinese were right all the time- out of Africa hypothesis is BS.

    • Replies: @Alden
  47. @J.Ross

    This is an old problem and the security people have pretty much given up on it. What it comes down to is that if you want secure electronics, you must have a secure chip foundry run be security cleared people and expensive checks on the chip design and the output.
    Used to be (around 2008) that Microsoft Word had a complete flight simulator embedded as an Easter Egg. Nobody noticed. Software can be embedded in firmware, and is quite difficult to detect. Putting viruses in RAM sticks illustrates a much larger problem.
    Even if funded and implemented (highly unlikely), security methods of the sort mentioned above would be marginally effective. Present systems were not designed for security, and that’s the end of the story. All you can do is make things difficult for the bad guys. When you hear a security guy say “there is no such thing as perfect security”, that’s what he means.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  48. Svevlad says:
    @Hail

    I believe that Africa is the “primary origin point” – of prehumans. Humans came to be out of it (or at the fringes), but retained the genetic compatibility due to closeness.

    I believe also that many of these simply failed or got exterminated, which is why the most basal Y-DNA and mtDNA clades are both from Africa, albeit different regions
    It was probably in-out-in-out-in-out to the point it isn’t even important anymore since God knows how many of these cycles actually happened

  49. backup says:
    @Polynikes

    Denisovans, neanderthals and anatomically modern humans are al descendant from one source, that much is sure. So earlier and branched off.

  50. bomag says:
    @J.Ross

    How much intel could be lost to security cameras compared to human intel?

    I suspect all breeches are from agents hired in the name of diversity, or from open sources.

    Reminds me of a sequence from a Clavell novel where the CIA was happily paying Chinese agents in the cold war days who just passed on info from a local daily paper.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  51. bomag says:
    @Calvin Hobbes

    And then they got Roland Fryer.

    During another famous revolution, prominent people argued for Lavoisier to be spared; the judge replied, “the Republic has no need for scientists.”

  52. bomag says:
    @bruce county

    white people have the privilege to attend festivals in “POC populated cities.”

    Don’t underestimate the egos we are dealing with here; they probably think POC festivals are so awesome and enriching that White people should pay more for the privilege of attending; and if they don’t pay or attend in sufficient numbers, then the gov’t needs to mandate and enforce compliance.

  53. @Anonymous

    For me it makes it very clear the very earliest examples of our species were previously found in Africa. Otherwise it’d be written as

    Researchers have found the earliest example of our species (modern humans) — and they’re outside Africa.

    or even simply

    Researchers have found the earliest example of our species (modern humans), outside Africa.

    Mind the comma.

    • Replies: @backup
  54. LONG AGES AGO, WHEN ATLANTIS DESCENDED BENEATH THE WAVES

    Pretty sure Robert Howard had a better grasp of history than most modern anthropologists.

  55. @trelane

    Neanderthals replaced modern humans in the Levant ca. 90,000YBP. Even the oldest modern human remains at Skhul and Qafzeh are showing Neanderthal features (particularly Skhul IV) and using Levallois toolkits. The late Levantine Neanderthal Amud 1 shows obvious H. SAPIENS ancestry in the facial skeleton and brain case, and stood 5’10” tall.

  56. Realist says:

    The sensational discovery adds to evidence of an earlier migration of people from Africa that left no trace in the DNA of people alive today.

    It most certainly does not. All humans did not have to originate in Africa, some could have originated elsewhere.

  57. “Now our scenario was that there was an early modern group in Greece by 210,000 years ago, perhaps related to comparable populations in the Levant, but it was subsequently replaced by a Neanderthal population (represented by Apidima 2) by about 170,000 years ago,”

    Neanderthal Predation Theory?

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Commenter
  58. Realist says:
    @Anon

    College is for smart people, not dumb people.

    Not anymore.

  59. OT, but Amazon is about to perform an interesting experiment, it seems. Perhaps the NY Times would like to follow suit!

    Amazon Is Giving Workers A Chance To Learn To Code Before Robots Take Their Jobs

  60. @Paul Mendez

    Perhaps they should strike that part from the paper or the Goyim are going to use it to argue that Population replacement is real.

  61. The fact that the article shows the reconstructed face of the Neanderthal, but only the back of the skull for apidima 1, the modern-ish one, makes me want to see apidima 1’s face and wonder why I can’t. Nasal silling? Suspiciously-shaped eye sockets? What?

    • Replies: @backup
  62. anon[167] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jake

    It was only a massive repatriation. The Neanderthals were pretty tolerant but they weren’t saints. Rap “music” was the final straw

  63. J.Ross says:
    @Counterinsurgency

    Okay but why does everything have to be literally coming from our enemies?

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  64. @JMcG

    Where is he? Dienekes, please return and explain this to us.

  65. @The Alarmist

    The out of Africa theory is well-rotted, male, bovine excrement. If Africans have no Neanderthal DNA, how can Neanderthals be “out of Africa”? Denisovans are older than Neanderthals, and have been found from Siberia through Asia, and into Australia where the Aborigines are considered to be the oldest DNA on the planet. The “out of Africa” crowd would have people believe that non-Africans have the oldest African DNA.
    As for into Africa,
    https://www.upi.com/Science_News/2017/10/20/Set-of-9-million-year-old-teeth-suggests-earliest-human-relatives-could-have-lived-in-Europe/1471508523901/

    I can’t locate the article I was looking for, that stated the DNA has been found in “younger” archaeological finds in Ethiopia, and is present in the Khoi-San, the original inhabitants of South Africa, who are genetically different than the Bantu and Zulu invaders that came from the North at the time the Boers arrived on the Cape.

  66. @Anon

    4 members: Kinesiology or Exersice/Sports Studies (fake major designed to keep valuable male athletes from flunking out and losing eligibility, now exepanded to include women)

    Actually, Kinesiology is not restricted to exercise. It is the mechanics of body movement, and is somewhere between physio and occupational therapy. People with degrees in Kinesiology are often consulted for those recovering from workplace injuries where an employee may have to alter his/her movements in order to return to the job. They can also consulted in severe skeletal trauma injuries.
    Both physiotherapy and kinesiology are derived from the old remedial gymnasts, who themselves are derived from the exercises of WWI German POW Josef Pilates.

    That said, it doesn’t alter my view that the team has an enormous sense of entitlement and were ungracious to the extreme.

  67. J.Ross says:
    @bomag

    Why does there have to be a single mb known to be lost that way? Why can’t it be a principle to not depend on our enemies for our supplies?

    • Replies: @bomag
  68. backup says:
    @Red Pill Angel

    The form of the cranium and the back of the head, teeth and the jaw are the most telling parts of classification of hominids.

  69. backup says:
    @adreadline

    I know you’re discussing semantics. But here’s the timeline of the oldest Anatomically modern humans (AHM):

    Oldest known AHM: Jebel Irhoud in Morocco – 300,000 years ago
    Maybe AHM, much disputed though: Florisbad (South-Africa) – 260,000 years ago
    AMH: Apidima – 210.000 years ago
    AMH: Omo (Ethiopia) – 195,000 years ago

  70. @bruce county

    The group says its reasoning for doubling ticket prices for white people was because white people have the privilege to attend festivals in “POC populated cities.” In other words, the group says, white people can afford tickets to any event in any city, while black and brown people cannot.

    Sounds reasonable enough. In the Dominican Republic government museums and the commercially run cable car charge double the price for foreigners, but also given the local discount to Haitians on the grounds that they probably cannot afford the tourist prices, but need educating.

    In the US it is probably against the law to charge more based on skin color genetics, but only yesterday I took my kids to the butterfly museum in Gainesville, Florida and you paid less for admission on production of a valid Florida ID, (driver license.) The children had no IDs, but were fathered in on my ID. Also state universities charge more for out of state students on the basis of serving the needs of locals before students from colder states who would like to get away for the winter.

    So I think charging white people extra for festivals might be a reasonable way to subsidize a festival, but it is probably illegal in this jurisdiction.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  71. J.Ross says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Jonathan Mason is Corvinus with literacy.
    The great concern of modern American law is the elimination of discrimination, especially on grounds of race. This deeply stupid moralistic utopianism is the source of much noise, fighting, and injustice. Practicality might indeed be nice if we had a different system. The only issue here is effectively Woodrow Wilson exempting his favorite brewery from prohibition and being taken seriously.

  72. @Anonymous

    the ‘strong out of Africa’ hypothesis, which postulated a common ancestry for all extant humans from as recently as 50,000 years ago, was the prevailing dogma and orthodoxy. It was pushed very hard by the anthropological establishment.

    I remember when a certain Chris Stringer was one of the fiercest proponents of that “settled science”.
    I shall go and amuse myself by looking up some of his old newspaper/magazine proclamations to that effect. He also deprecated and insulted the notion of “neandertal introgression”, I think.

  73. Doug says:

    How did they determine the age of the skull?

  74. Alden says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I never believed Out Of Africa.

    • Replies: @backup
  75. backup says:
    @Alden

    On what base exactly?

  76. @J.Ross

    Okay but why does everything have to be literally coming from our enemies?

    Not everything does, but quite a bit does. As far as I can tell the loss of manufacturing to Asia was caused by a combination of Cold War and domestic American politics.
    Very briefly: the Cold War involved giving industry to our allies. The Marshal Plan was first, reviving manufacturing in Europe (and West Germany). After that, the Korean War rescued Japan from poverty by paying it to be the industrialized logistics base for the effort. This lesson was applied to Taiwan and S. Korea; there were failed attempts to apply it to Vietnam. The success of these efforts eventually led to the seven Asian Tigers. That’s the Cold War part.
    The development of container shipping had, by the 1960s, greatly reduced the cost of shipping to the United States. At the same time, the US economy was dominated by very large corporations that did not innovate very quickly. This permitted the Japanese to apply solid state electronic components to consumer goods before US firms did so [1].
    At this point the Democrats realized that they could finally do without the Anglo Saxon corporations. The New Deal had rather disliked the “economic royalists”, but WW II could not have been fought absent an effective alliance between the New Deal and the major US corporations. During WW II US war production was by major corporations [2]. By 1970 the truce was over; the Democrats no longer needed the large corporations. They could buy things from Asia. US corporations realized that the push was for international trade and exhibited their now familiar level of competence by talking about the “Chinese market” and, to be blunt, getting taken by Asian businesses [3]. They were quite happy when Nixon opened China to trade. Subsequently, they lost heavily, and corporate jobs for blue collars stopped paying well. When Clinton sent the entire US patent base to China, there was no resistance [4].
    The upshot of the whole thing is that the US lost almost all mass production of solid state electronics to Asia. The US still leads in central processing unit (CPU) chip design, but that’s it. The rest has gone to Asia, which is a fairly opaque collection of opaque societies.

    US domestic politics was sold as harmless from 1945 to c.a. 2008.. As you can see in 2019, it isn’t and it never was.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] Early transistor radios had a harsh sound when compared to tube radios. American companies had sold stationary consumer receivers only (tubes failed when jolted often) and did not see the importance of portable transistor radios. Japan captured consumer electronics starting with portable transistor radios
    David Halberstam
    _The Reckoning_
    First edition 1986.
    Halberstam is a bit of a liberal hack, and the Japanese were made to look a lot better than they later proved to be, but the stories are probably more or less true.

    2] Perhaps the best illustration was that the US Army took the design for a general purpose vehicle (called the “jeep”) submitted to them by Wyllys Motors and gave it to General Motors for production.
    http://car-from-uk.com/motors/willys/

    3] General Electric at one time had a monopoly on artificial diamonds. Only GE could make diamonds. They had one secure facility where the diamonds were and sold as abrasives. The, one summer, they invited a Korean national ( Iljin Diamond) to work there in the interests of starting a relationship. The Chinese guy had a PhD in materials science, and walked out understanding how to duplicate the entire process.
    https://www.ehudlaniado.com/home/index.php/news/entry/the-history-of-lab-grown-diamonds

    4] http://www.stonezone.com/article.php?id=753
    You can find much less partisan accounts by searching for “Clinton Technology transfer China”, but this one gives the feel of the times, which was “destroy American industry, it is bad for the world”.

  77. bomag says:
    @J.Ross

    I agree.

    But we could probably live alright with imported cameras. Importing the people is what will do us in.

  78. MBlanc46 says:
    @J.Ross

    It’s not news that President Trump us not the clearest and most consistent thinker on the planet.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  79. Anonymous[830] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross

    What’s with the Chinese putting spy things in soft/hardware. Our NSA would never do that. 😉

  80. J.Ross says:
    @MBlanc46

    Soros and the SPLC are still winning though: no one accused of witchcraft may appear with the respectable, not even in a case like Ben’s where there is thorough documentation and a specific known defamer.

  81. @Polynikes

    The way I understand it, Neanderthals and Modern Humans both evolved from Homo Erectus, some of whom left Africa long ago. Denisovans and Neanderthals evolved outside Africa. Modern Humans evolved in Africa, and left later.

    Of course, this is all theory and there are many theories on what really happened.

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