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As I’ve been pointing out for a couple of years, we constantly read news stories out of Silicon Valley about male chauvinist brogrammers oppressing women whose only dream in life since they were little girls has been to code. And yet, upon inspection of the details, another word often comes to mind: adventuress.

From the NYT:

Ellen Pao Suit Against Kleiner Perkins Heads to Trial, With Big Potential Implications

By DAVID STREITFELD FEB. 22, 2015

SAN FRANCISCO — Many women in technology believe Silicon Valley is stuck in the past. They say they are rarely hired, promoted or taken seriously, and are confronted on a daily basis by sexism and harassment. They feel demeaned and discouraged.

Now, in a high-profile suit set to go to trial this week, a jury will pass judgment about whether one woman suffered discrimination. The proceedings could resonate widely: A guilty verdict will be billed as a sweeping indictment of the high-tech world, while a dismissal might supply ammunition to those who feel gender issues are being overplayed.

The accuser is Ellen Pao, who worked at one of the valley’s most prominent venture capital firms, Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers. At the center of the suit is John Doerr, a legendary investor who was Ms. Pao’s boss and, according to court papers, practically a father to her. How the man with the Midas touch let his very proud, very image-conscious shop become embroiled in scandal is a question lurking behind the suit.

Because he’s the only White Man involved …

Ajit Nazre

Ms. Pao says a married colleague pressured her into an affair and then retaliated against her when she broke it off.

Keep in mind that Ms. Pao broke it off after Mr. Nazre failed to divorce Mrs. Nazre. You might think that Ms. Pao’s predation upon Mrs. Nazre’s marriage might be an issue, but that’s missing the point, which is that John Doerr is a deep-pocketed rich white man and therefore must pay. Woman v. woman conflicts, while fascinating to other women, don’t fit well within the dominant feminist legal and media frameworks, so they are of no serious interest.

When she complained, she says she was discriminated against and got poor reviews, resulting ultimately in her dismissal. She accuses Kleiner of treating her “despicably, maliciously, fraudulently and oppressively” from “an improper and evil motive amounting to malice.”

Kleiner fired back last week in a scorched-earth response filed in civil court here, saying the affair was consensual and there was no discrimination. Ms. Pao did not succeed at Kleiner, the firm said, because she “lacked the ability to lead others, build consensus and be a team player, which is crucial to a successful career as a venture capital senior investing partner.”

No matter whose arguments prevail, the trial promises a rare unscripted peek at Silicon Valley, where every interview tends to be overseen by a publicist. Court papers show it to be a place where colleagues become intimately involved, break up messily, work incessantly and promote themselves remorselessly — a place, in short, like almost everywhere else in America, although perhaps a little more amorous. The couple first had sex “at a work event,” the papers say.

Ms. Pao is seeking as much as $16 million in damages to replace the income she says she never had a chance to make at Kleiner.

Since the suit was filed three years ago, Silicon Valley’s treatment of women has become a major flash point, as nearly every month brings new accusations of men behaving badly. Critics charge that start-up entrepreneurs feel entitled to act like jerks, and that the venture capitalists continue to pour money in because they are afraid of missing the next big thing.

A case in point is Snapchat, the disappearing-message service. Last spring, emails that its chief executive wrote a few years ago to his Stanford fraternity brothers surfaced. They were contemptuous of women to a degree that is unquotable in a newspaper. He apologized after the emails became public.

A few months later, Snapchat raised a new investment round valuing it at $10 billion. Among those supplying cash was Kleiner Perkins.

Note that Snatchsnap wouldn’t be worth a dime if young women didn’t provide it with so much free content to monetize by taking pictures of their more intimate regions.

There is an uproar over a lack of diversity in tech, highlighted most recently by Jesse L. Jackson Sr. and his Rainbow PUSH Coalition’s campaign for more inclusiveness. But the clubby world of venture funding remains almost exclusively male.

The total number of female partners at venture capital firms has declined to 6 percent from 10 percent in 1999, according to a report last fall from the Diana Project, a research effort on female entrepreneurs. …

Her original complaint, filed in May 2012, has already become part of Silicon Valley lore. It said that a Kleiner partner did not invite her or any other women to an important dinner because “women kill the buzz”; that another Kleiner partner inappropriately gave her Leonard Cohen’s sex-drenched “Book of Longing”; and that this same partner told her “the personalities of women” did not lead to success at Kleiner “because women are quiet.”

Buddy and Ellen

A Princeton-trained engineer and Harvard-trained lawyer who has deep experience in the technology field, Ms. Pao first came under media scrutiny when she married Alphonse Fletcher Jr. in 2007, after her affair with the colleague, Ajit Nazre, ended.

Ah, Alphonse “Buddy” Fletcher of the Fabulous Fletcher Brothers. From Wikipedia:

Born Alphonse Fletcher, Jr.

Residence The Dakota

… Known for Hedge fund management, fund bankruptcy, Kidder Peabody discrimination lawsuit, Dakota discrimination lawsuit, Philanthropy

Spouse(s) Ellen K. Pao (2007–present)

Relatives Geoffrey S. Fletcher (brother)

Alphonse “Buddy” Fletcher, Jr. (born 1965) was a hedge fund manager and founder of the Fletcher Foundation. His fund is in bankruptcy and he is accused of civil fraud.[1][2][3]

He began his career as a quantitative equity trader at Bear Stearns and later worked at Kidder, Peabody & Co. Fletcher, who is African American, sued Kidder Peabody for racial discrimination. Although his racial discrimination claims were dismissed, he eventually won an arbitration award of US$1.26 million.[4] Fletcher has also been involved in litigation centered on a dispute with the board of The Dakota building in Manhattan, New York.

Fletcher founded Fletcher Asset Management in 1991. Fletcher’s main fund, Fletcher International, may have been insolvent since 2008 and was declared bankrupt in 2012. Money from the fund was used to fund his brother’s movie project according the bankruptcy court trustee.[5]

Buddy’s brother Geoffrey Fletcher won a screenwriting Oscar for “Precious.”

…Fund bankruptcy[edit]

In July 2011, FIA Leveraged Fund, an investment vehicle managed by Fletcher Asset Management, was unable to meet a redemption request totaling $144 million by three Louisiana pension fund investors.[16][17] In April 2012, the Grand Court of the Cayman Islands ruled that the fund was insolvent and ordered that it be wound up (liquidated).[18][19] In June 2012, Fletcher International Ltd., the Bermuda-based “master fund” for the Fletcher funds, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in Manhattan.[20]

In November 2013, Richard J. Davis, the court-appointed Chapter 11 Trustee of Fletcher International Ltd. said that his investigation shows the Fletcher fund investors were victims of a fraud perpetrated by Alphonse Fletcher and others at Fletcher Asset Management which enabled them to divert investors funds for their own benefit and that the Fletcher International Ltd. fund and its feeder funds were likely insolvent as early as 2008.[21][22]

Fletcher’s main fund, Fletcher International, filed for bankruptcy in 2012.[5] A February 2014 article in The New York Times describes Alphonse “Buddy” Fletcher, Jr. as being the operator of, basically, a Ponzi scheme.[5]

Litigation[edit]

Alphonse Fletcher vs. Kidder Peabody[edit]
In 1991, after having been employed as an equity trader at Kidder Peabody, Fletcher filed a lawsuit in New York state court for employment discrimination based on race.[23] The New York Court of Appeals ruled that Fletcher’s claim must be arbitrated.[24] In a NYSE arbitration, Fletcher was awarded $1.26 million, and in a subsequent arbitration, the racial discrimination claim was dismissed.[25][15]

Dakota lawsuit[edit]

In February 2011, Fletcher filed a lawsuit against the Board of Directors of The Dakota co-op building in Manhattan, where he had lived since 1992. Among other things, he alleged defamation and unlawful discrimination.[26] In March 2010, Fletcher had signed a contract to purchase another apartment at The Dakota, intending to combine it with his current apartment. The Dakota board said it rejected Fletcher’s application based on the financial materials he provided in his application.[27][28]

Fletcher Foundation and philanthropy[edit]

Harvard’s Alphonse Fletcher University Professor at the Beer Summit

In 2004, Fletcher created the Alphonse Fletcher University Professor Fellowship program to financially support professors working to improve race relations at Harvard.[6][30] Funded as part of the Fletcher Foundation, Henry Louis Gates, Jr. is the Alphonse Fletcher University Professor at Harvard.[31][32]

Personal life[edit]

In 2007, Alphonse Fletcher married Ellen Pao, then a partner at venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers and, along with Fletcher, a Crown Fellow at the Aspen Institute.[27][33] Fletcher has a daughter, Matilda Pao Fletcher.[27][34][35]

Buddy and Bo

Prior to his marriage to Pao, Fletcher was in a same-sex relationship with Hobart V. “Bo” Fowlkes Jr. for over 10 years.[35][36][37]

Fletcher and his wife have lived in the St. Regis Residence in San Francisco.[37][38] Fletcher also owns homes in The Dakota in New York City.[37][39] He put his Cornwall, Connecticut home up for sale in August 2013.[40][41]

Alphonse Fletcher’s brother Geoffrey S. Fletcher is the first African American to win an Academy Award for screenwriting.[6]

From the NYT again:

Mr. Fletcher, a financier, has a history of both suing and being sued. His hedge fund is bankrupt and pension funds are suing to recover their investments amid accusations of fraud. …

Ms. Pao is interim chief executive of Reddit, the news commentary website, which has also been drawn into the case. An anonymous Reddit employee sent a letter to Kleiner’s legal team, asking them to subpoena Reddit employees “for information regarding conflicts with Ellen Pao.” Such information could support the defense’s contention that the person really undermining Ms. Pao at Kleiner was Ms. Pao.

The danger in a no-holds-barred approach, of course, is that it also serves to tarnish Kleiner, which in its dot-com glory days used discretion to help perpetuate its mystique. Kleiner made fortunes in Netscape, Genentech, Amazon and Google, but has not had a huge name-brand hit recently.

Women might not kill the buzz, as Ms. Pao says she was told, but messy court cases sure do.

So, the smart money usually pays up something to make potentially messy court cases go away. It’s a living.

 
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  1. None of that seems very surprising, given the rise of the aggrieved class.

    Back in the day, we just called it being on the grift.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Don't Fear the Grifter
  2. Kidder Peabody apparently had some bad luck with African American employees. First getting sued by this Fletcher fellow, and then the Joseph Jett fiasco.

  3. If you are going to steal from Wikipedia, the least you could do is remove the superscripts.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    How is it stealing when Steve acknowledged that he quoted Wikipedia?
  4. You’re sure this not some elaborate, Andy Kaufman or Juaqin Phoenix put on?

  5. OTOH the CEO of Boeing had to resign a few years ago for having a ‘consensual affair’ with a female executive. I’ve always been of the opinion that it is not a good idea to fish in the company pond but I can imagine the blowback if a company forbade it or fired Pao and geek Lothario Nazre for romancing on company time.

    This Fletcher guy has lived the Black American Dream. Obviously incompetent as a money manager- why anyone would give money to a black to manage is beyond me as a black CEO screams falling profits if not imminent bankruptcy ( McDonalds anyone?) but public pension funds are sometimes in a bind if they don’t. Still you get what you pay for and in Fletcher’s case you paid to let Fletcher live it up before he was exposed.

    Too bad defendants in these kind of cases can’t pick the venue. I once suggested to a hillbilly rancher in Grayson County, Virginia that I should sue Asplundh tree service for cutting some trees down on my property on a Appalachian Power right of way. He looked at me as the city slicker I was and said ” Ain’t nobody around here got any money and they ain’t gonna give you any either!”. In Silicon Valley unfortunately a few million dollars is just walking around money. Won’t even buy you a decent house!

    • Replies: @elmer
    "the CEO of Boeing had to resign a few years ago for having a ‘consensual affair’ with a female executive"

    I was there at a small local Boeing office when it happened. We had just been through a round of mandatory ethics and sexual harassment training when the media announced the CEO had been doing the hanky-panky with one of his groupies.

    These computer-generated complaints about the treatment of women in tech have been cliche' for at least a decade now. I got laid off from Boeing shortly after they had spent months and hundreds of thousands of dollars renovating the ladie's restroom near my cubicle to provide "breast-pumping stations". Always a pleasure now to see a Boeing commercial featuring every ethnic and sexual group on the planet in teamwork to design the next generation of airplanes.

    I have been canned a couple dozen times in my sketchy career but still manage to pull in a good income as a technocrat. The wails about female oppression in tech never consider that men get shafted all the time and nobody complains about it.

    Such as the latest nonsense from Sheryl Sandberg that women are not being allowed to talk during meetings. Fact is they are terrified of being publicly impaled for taking a risk they way men are every damn day in every industry.
    , @Marty
    You can't always take a local's opinion for how litigation might turn out. In 1984, the british coal miners' pension trust sued a prominent Kern County rancher for fraud, after he sold them thousands of diseased almond trees. I asked the veteran trial judge how he thought it would turn out, and he predicted a defense verdict. He was wrong, as the jury came in for $10 million.
  6. “Women in general seem to me to be appreciably more intelligent than men… a great many of them suffer in silence from the imbecilities of their husbands.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Defense_of_Women

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one

    “Women in general seem to me to be appreciably more intelligent than men… a great many of them suffer in silence from the imbecilities of their husbands.”
     
    How strange that they married them, then. Does that show a great deal of intelligence?
  7. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @rustbeltreader
    "Women in general seem to me to be appreciably more intelligent than men... a great many of them suffer in silence from the imbecilities of their husbands." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Defense_of_Women

    “Women in general seem to me to be appreciably more intelligent than men… a great many of them suffer in silence from the imbecilities of their husbands.”

    How strange that they married them, then. Does that show a great deal of intelligence?

  8. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    The shine seems to be going off of NAM and female CEOs etc, although Intel seems headed down that road.

  9. I can’t believe they left off the fact that Fletcher was gay before he married Ms. Pao. I thought it wasn’t possible to switch teams like that? But that would mean this is probably just a shakedown. I’d better not think too hard about this, I might get a case of the vapors.

    ”My parents always said we should always strive to be better than the best,” said Mr. Fletcher, who lives with his partner of more than 10 years, Hobart V. Folkes Jr., on the Upper West Side.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/18/nyregion/50-million-gift-aims-to-further-legacy-of-brown-case.html

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    I can’t believe they left off the fact that Fletcher was gay before he married Ms. Pao. I thought it wasn’t possible to switch teams like that?

    Steve has given the canonical treatment of interracial angle.
    http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/color/articles/sailer.html

    But beyond East Asian women's body fat and female compliance--helping make them tractable wife material--it is nonetheless the case that they are not as "curvy". And in fact, one effect of one East Asian allele is reduced breast size. So while more "feminine" they are also more "boyish" of figure. The East Asian gals are often the last stand, before the guy flat out admits to himself that he's queer.

    Ellen Po is a particular boyish--ugly boyish--looking woman. From Fletcher's perspective i doubt there's been much change in what he's seeing or what he's doing.
  10. @ScarletNumber
    If you are going to steal from Wikipedia, the least you could do is remove the superscripts.

    How is it stealing when Steve acknowledged that he quoted Wikipedia?

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    Point is, the numbers are distracting.
  11. lifestyles of the rich and no-so-famous

  12. @Ivy
    None of that seems very surprising, given the rise of the aggrieved class.

    Back in the day, we just called it being on the grift.

    Don’t Fear the Grifter

  13. We’re told that compared to Westerners East Asians are passive; but when it comes to ending sexual relationships my observation is that the women often don’t go quietly.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
    Yes, Asian women don't go quietly, they seem to be quite vindictive in fact:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/calif-woman-sentenced-life-prison-castrating-ex-hubby-article-1.1385799

  14. A multi-ethnic, inter-racial, poly-sexual stew. Lawyers duking it out. This one has it all.

  15. @Anonymous
    How is it stealing when Steve acknowledged that he quoted Wikipedia?

    Point is, the numbers are distracting.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Okay, but why call it stealing? Just suggest he delete the numbers, because you think they are distracting.
    , @Kylie
    Scarlet Number says, "Point is, the numbers are distracting."

    So your inability to focus becomes Steve's theft of ideas?

    How very 21st century of you.
  16. Shame on the New York Times.

  17. I’ll just say it: that chick- woof, woof. She’s got lawyerface.

  18. Steve showed us the Fortune mag cover that has her picture, and if you check her out on Google Images, you can confirm that that she is not attractive. How did it happen that someone so unappealing was able to have an affair with a (presumably) successful married man? You’d think that an adventuress would at least be pretty enough to pull off an adventuring swindle, like that cute blonde Steve had a post about 11 days ago who dated a Silicon Valley rich guy who didn’t end up marrying her.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/silicon-valley-adventuress-plays-the-rape-card-at-stanford-and-uva/

  19. @Anonymous
    We're told that compared to Westerners East Asians are passive; but when it comes to ending sexual relationships my observation is that the women often don't go quietly.

    Yes, Asian women don’t go quietly, they seem to be quite vindictive in fact:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/calif-woman-sentenced-life-prison-castrating-ex-hubby-article-1.1385799

  20. @ScarletNumber
    Point is, the numbers are distracting.

    Okay, but why call it stealing? Just suggest he delete the numbers, because you think they are distracting.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    What are you, his lawyer?

    He stole it from Wikipedia. Just because he cited it doesn't make it untrue.
  21. How convenient that Pao filed her lawsuit in May 2012, the same year the Fletcher’s main fund, Fletcher International, filed for bankruptcy in 2012. Fletcher and Pao seem like they’re made for each other.

  22. That guy Nazre thought he was getting some strange. Turns out he was getting some crazy.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "That guy Nazre thought he was getting some strange. Turns out he was getting some crazy."

    And exactly why are we importing this new elite? Does our country really need this? I mean these two are presumably the crime de la crime of U.S. immigrants. (To be fair, I don't know how long Mrs. Pao Fletcher or Mr. Nazre, or their respective families, have been in the U.S., but I doubt very long.)

  23. Firsts! “One night during the early 1700s, a constable working for the British colony of New York arrested what he presumed was a prostitute walking along Broadway. When the suspect was brought back to the stockade, however, it was discovered that he had actually taken into custody the colonial governor, who enjoyed taking evening strolls in his wife’s clothes … In addition to women’s clothing, which he enjoyed wearing while walking the parapets of the British fort he commanded, [Lord Cornbury] also had a fetish for ears, and made it a point of telling visitors to official state functions that they were free to fondle those of his wife …” http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2337/did-new-york-once-have-a-transvestite-governor

    President Obama can send Joe to fondle their ears. He can dress like Rudia and promote Love for England. We can ban encryption in Silicon Valley and get silicon breasts and bitch about leaks. Then… place the fish and chips onto the greaseproof paper and then into a sheet of newspaper. All you need now is a pickled onion, salt and MALT VINEGAR! TIPS … Take one fillet of fish at a time and holding it by the tail or thin end (!) swirl it around the batter until well … http://www.food.com/recipe/real-english-fish-and-chips-with-yorkshire-beer-batter-183399
    Now we’re cooking with beer!

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I'll probably blog about Lord Cornbury, Governor of New York and New Jersey, at some point. He is said to have been highly offended that the local legislature didn't approve of him dressing like his cousin, Queen Anne.
    , @Steve Sailer
    Thanks, I'll post.
  24. Why not go for it? It sounds like she does not have much to lose anyway. I am not a lawyer but since this seems like a straight forward business deal for her, shouldn’t she have to pay the other sides legal fees if she loses? We have reached peak feminism where each one of these predatory acts will become harder to pull off. Pretty soon these tramps will have to earn their money the old fashioned way and marry it.

  25. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Anon
    That guy Nazre thought he was getting some strange. Turns out he was getting some crazy.

    “That guy Nazre thought he was getting some strange. Turns out he was getting some crazy.”

    And exactly why are we importing this new elite? Does our country really need this? I mean these two are presumably the crime de la crime of U.S. immigrants. (To be fair, I don’t know how long Mrs. Pao Fletcher or Mr. Nazre, or their respective families, have been in the U.S., but I doubt very long.)

  26. It looks like Pao’s parents are Chinese immigrants to U.S., and Navre grew up in India.

  27. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    As a rule, Asian women are more likely to come from an impoverished background than white women, or else they’re only a generation or two removed from real poverty, and they have the mindset of people who have been poor.

    The 20th century was a pretty rotten one for most of Asian countries. Nearly all of them were involved in wars and/or had periods of famine, and the philosophy of many people over there is that you look after yourself financially. Thus, Asian women can be real predators when it comes to cash. They see it as a rational response in case they have bad luck and suddenly lose a job or a cash-generating husband.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    the philosophy of many people over there is that you look after yourself financially
     
    And that's not "the philosophy of many people over" here?

    Thus, Asian women can be real predators when it comes to cash.
     
    Because non-Asian women eschew money and are all saints. Come now. In East Asia, women don't get the children, the house, and half of men's assets automatically when they divorce.

    As a rule, Asian women are more likely to come from an impoverished background than white women, or else they’re only a generation or two removed from real poverty, and they have the mindset of people who have been poor.
     
    From Wiki:

    Her father, Young-Ping Pao, was a professor at New York University's Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences. Pao was raised in Maplewood, New Jersey.
     
    The median household income in Maplewood is over $100,000 per annum (it does have a relatively high black population of over 30% and it has very few Asians 3%, a number that was probably even lower when Pao grew up there; the town seems starkly divided income between the white and black areas, and my guess would be that Pao grew up in the white part of the town). So I doubt she came from "real poverty" or poverty of any kind.

    Where do you get these stereotypes? The vast majority of Asian women in America I know are pretty much yellow SWPLs: educated, affluent, trim, married to professional husbands, and all gung ho about organic food and eco-friendly stuff (of course, Asian women themselves are no. 11 on SWPL list).

    In any case, the best revenge is living well. This Pao woman apparently has a bachelor's in electrical engineering from Princeton, Harvard JD and MBA. She could go off and get a very lucrative gig elsewhere, but instead of that, she's in a legal version of the mother of all middle school cafeteria food fights. And that's the problem here. Our society cultivates the cult of the victim, so even elites go into the hysterical aggrieved mode and just don't let go.

    By the way, one thing that is unusual about this woman is her taste in men. Indians/Pakistanis and homosexual (or heterosexual) blacks are rarely the mates of choice for East Asian women. It does happen occasionally (e.g. Michelle Rhee), but it is a rather unusual thing (about 45% or so of American-born Asian women marry whites and most of the rest marry Asians; that number is more like 70%+ for foreign-born Asian women).
  28. The proceedings could resonate widely: A guilty verdict will be billed as a sweeping indictment of the high-tech world,

    Why would one case be a sweeping indictment? After every Muslim terrorist attack or nasty black homicide we are told by our SCIENCE!-practicing, TED-attending media overclass that you can’t draw sweeping generalizations from a single case. But when black baby bodies or rich white cishet males are involved, with a bit of hand-waving and SJW-tistics, suddenly N=1 has perfect predictive accuracy, across all time and even into alternate universes!

    • Replies: @eah
    Why would one case be a sweeping indictment?

    Because the NYT said so. Please pay closer attention.

    @yaqub the mad scientist

    woof, woof

    The woman obviously has a horseface, so please use the proper vernacular -- in this case 'neigh, neigh', or perhaps 'whinny, whinny'.
  29. @Anon
    As a rule, Asian women are more likely to come from an impoverished background than white women, or else they're only a generation or two removed from real poverty, and they have the mindset of people who have been poor.

    The 20th century was a pretty rotten one for most of Asian countries. Nearly all of them were involved in wars and/or had periods of famine, and the philosophy of many people over there is that you look after yourself financially. Thus, Asian women can be real predators when it comes to cash. They see it as a rational response in case they have bad luck and suddenly lose a job or a cash-generating husband.

    the philosophy of many people over there is that you look after yourself financially

    And that’s not “the philosophy of many people over” here?

    Thus, Asian women can be real predators when it comes to cash.

    Because non-Asian women eschew money and are all saints. Come now. In East Asia, women don’t get the children, the house, and half of men’s assets automatically when they divorce.

    As a rule, Asian women are more likely to come from an impoverished background than white women, or else they’re only a generation or two removed from real poverty, and they have the mindset of people who have been poor.

    From Wiki:

    Her father, Young-Ping Pao, was a professor at New York University’s Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences. Pao was raised in Maplewood, New Jersey.

    The median household income in Maplewood is over $100,000 per annum (it does have a relatively high black population of over 30% and it has very few Asians 3%, a number that was probably even lower when Pao grew up there; the town seems starkly divided income between the white and black areas, and my guess would be that Pao grew up in the white part of the town). So I doubt she came from “real poverty” or poverty of any kind.

    Where do you get these stereotypes? The vast majority of Asian women in America I know are pretty much yellow SWPLs: educated, affluent, trim, married to professional husbands, and all gung ho about organic food and eco-friendly stuff (of course, Asian women themselves are no. 11 on SWPL list).

    In any case, the best revenge is living well. This Pao woman apparently has a bachelor’s in electrical engineering from Princeton, Harvard JD and MBA. She could go off and get a very lucrative gig elsewhere, but instead of that, she’s in a legal version of the mother of all middle school cafeteria food fights. And that’s the problem here. Our society cultivates the cult of the victim, so even elites go into the hysterical aggrieved mode and just don’t let go.

    By the way, one thing that is unusual about this woman is her taste in men. Indians/Pakistanis and homosexual (or heterosexual) blacks are rarely the mates of choice for East Asian women. It does happen occasionally (e.g. Michelle Rhee), but it is a rather unusual thing (about 45% or so of American-born Asian women marry whites and most of the rest marry Asians; that number is more like 70%+ for foreign-born Asian women).

    • Replies: @Anon

    Where do you get these stereotypes? The vast majority of Asian women in America I know are pretty much yellow SWPLs: educated, affluent, trim, married to professional husbands, and all gung ho about organic food and eco-friendly stuff (of course, Asian women themselves are no. 11 on SWPL list).
     
    Movies where Asian women are depicted as purveyors of happy endings? Everything the average individual (American or otherwise) knows about people with whom he has little personal contact, he learned about from TV productions or the movies. From watching Seinfeld, we learn that Asian Americans in NY are mainly involved in the restaurant business, whether as delivery people, counter help or proprietors.
    , @Anonymous

    By the way, one thing that is unusual about this woman is her taste in men. Indians/Pakistanis and homosexual (or heterosexual) blacks are rarely the mates of choice for East Asian women. It does happen occasionally (e.g. Michelle Rhee), but it is a rather unusual thing (about 45% or so of American-born Asian women marry whites and most of the rest marry Asians; that number is more like 70%+ for foreign-born Asian women).
     
    Rhee was divorced (Jewish guy) before she married Johnson. Who would marry a guy (Johnson) with more than one allegation of underage female molestation, one involving a payout?

    Pao seems to not only have issues, but a full subscription. I'm guessing she has a history/pattern of causing problems. I don't know if this is the case, but I think a lot of whites give Asians a pass and assume the stereotypes when it comes to work ethic, agreeableness, and smarts. I think Asian-Americans benefit from white racism. If an Asian and a white with equal qualifications are competing for a job, the Asian has an advantage if the people hiring are white.
  30. @Abe

    The proceedings could resonate widely: A guilty verdict will be billed as a sweeping indictment of the high-tech world,
     
    Why would one case be a sweeping indictment? After every Muslim terrorist attack or nasty black homicide we are told by our SCIENCE!-practicing, TED-attending media overclass that you can't draw sweeping generalizations from a single case. But when black baby bodies or rich white cishet males are involved, with a bit of hand-waving and SJW-tistics, suddenly N=1 has perfect predictive accuracy, across all time and even into alternate universes!

    Why would one case be a sweeping indictment?

    Because the NYT said so. Please pay closer attention.

    @yaqub the mad scientist

    woof, woof

    The woman obviously has a horseface, so please use the proper vernacular — in this case ‘neigh, neigh’, or perhaps ‘whinny, whinny’.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    The woman obviously has a horseface, so please use the proper vernacular — in this case ‘neigh, neigh’, or perhaps ‘whinny, whinny’.
     
    For women, I've been told, "brain, beauty, stability - pick two."

    Ms. Pao seems to have an inordinate amount one, but very little of the other two.
  31. OT

    Happened to come across this:

    WaPo — Americans are pretty bad at math. Especially young Americans

    Interestingly, it’s the younger cohorts who are dragging U.S. numeracy scores down.

    Yes, interesting.

    White students no longer to be majority in school

    Connecting those two dots is left as an exercise. But I doubt you can do it, since the nice, smart lady blogger at the WaPo couldn’t manage it, although her specialty is “data-driven journalism”.

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Yep. I saw that a few weeks back as well. I even commented on it under a different pseudonym, basically parroting what Steve has pointed out in the past. Surprisingly I didn't get hit with the usual blast of ad hominen attacks. One guy did disagree using arguments often repeated and I responded with very Steve-like replies.

    I'm not sure what Catherine Rampell's role is at the WaPost. She seems to be the voice of late 20s women living in DC. I looked up her bio because she seems to have a bit of Latino in her, but there's no mention of her being the Post's voice for Hispanics. She did go to Princeton but majored in anthropology. In the end, she seems to be what you find in huge numbers in the DC area. A smart in school woman who likes to think a lot about - and her case write about - superficial problems that affect her.

    Now, in Ms. Rampell's case, that's perfectly acceptable because she's a columnist. Her job in some ways is to navel gaze, hoping that it strikes a cord with a readers of a key demographic group. But for the other 99.9% of similar women, it gets a bit old.

    Having dated a few, I can say that they are quite intelligent and, in general, good people, but there's a depth missing. As Stein said, There's no there there. It's hard to put a finger on because I'm hardly some deep thinker or worldly soul. Perhaps, it's a lack of real experience. I grew up in the middle of nowhere and my family had occasional money issues. Nothing that dramatic, but there was some chopping my way through the jungle to get to where I was going. These woman may not have been driven to their current destination in a limo, but they were driven. I think that it can limit your thinking.
  32. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie

    the philosophy of many people over there is that you look after yourself financially
     
    And that's not "the philosophy of many people over" here?

    Thus, Asian women can be real predators when it comes to cash.
     
    Because non-Asian women eschew money and are all saints. Come now. In East Asia, women don't get the children, the house, and half of men's assets automatically when they divorce.

    As a rule, Asian women are more likely to come from an impoverished background than white women, or else they’re only a generation or two removed from real poverty, and they have the mindset of people who have been poor.
     
    From Wiki:

    Her father, Young-Ping Pao, was a professor at New York University's Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences. Pao was raised in Maplewood, New Jersey.
     
    The median household income in Maplewood is over $100,000 per annum (it does have a relatively high black population of over 30% and it has very few Asians 3%, a number that was probably even lower when Pao grew up there; the town seems starkly divided income between the white and black areas, and my guess would be that Pao grew up in the white part of the town). So I doubt she came from "real poverty" or poverty of any kind.

    Where do you get these stereotypes? The vast majority of Asian women in America I know are pretty much yellow SWPLs: educated, affluent, trim, married to professional husbands, and all gung ho about organic food and eco-friendly stuff (of course, Asian women themselves are no. 11 on SWPL list).

    In any case, the best revenge is living well. This Pao woman apparently has a bachelor's in electrical engineering from Princeton, Harvard JD and MBA. She could go off and get a very lucrative gig elsewhere, but instead of that, she's in a legal version of the mother of all middle school cafeteria food fights. And that's the problem here. Our society cultivates the cult of the victim, so even elites go into the hysterical aggrieved mode and just don't let go.

    By the way, one thing that is unusual about this woman is her taste in men. Indians/Pakistanis and homosexual (or heterosexual) blacks are rarely the mates of choice for East Asian women. It does happen occasionally (e.g. Michelle Rhee), but it is a rather unusual thing (about 45% or so of American-born Asian women marry whites and most of the rest marry Asians; that number is more like 70%+ for foreign-born Asian women).

    Where do you get these stereotypes? The vast majority of Asian women in America I know are pretty much yellow SWPLs: educated, affluent, trim, married to professional husbands, and all gung ho about organic food and eco-friendly stuff (of course, Asian women themselves are no. 11 on SWPL list).

    Movies where Asian women are depicted as purveyors of happy endings? Everything the average individual (American or otherwise) knows about people with whom he has little personal contact, he learned about from TV productions or the movies. From watching Seinfeld, we learn that Asian Americans in NY are mainly involved in the restaurant business, whether as delivery people, counter help or proprietors.

  33. @eah
    Why would one case be a sweeping indictment?

    Because the NYT said so. Please pay closer attention.

    @yaqub the mad scientist

    woof, woof

    The woman obviously has a horseface, so please use the proper vernacular -- in this case 'neigh, neigh', or perhaps 'whinny, whinny'.

    The woman obviously has a horseface, so please use the proper vernacular — in this case ‘neigh, neigh’, or perhaps ‘whinny, whinny’.

    For women, I’ve been told, “brain, beauty, stability – pick two.”

    Ms. Pao seems to have an inordinate amount one, but very little of the other two.

  34. […] Steve Sailer looks at the sordid underbelly of the Crustian Narrative. […]

  35. @rustbeltreader
    Firsts! "One night during the early 1700s, a constable working for the British colony of New York arrested what he presumed was a prostitute walking along Broadway. When the suspect was brought back to the stockade, however, it was discovered that he had actually taken into custody the colonial governor, who enjoyed taking evening strolls in his wife's clothes … In addition to women's clothing, which he enjoyed wearing while walking the parapets of the British fort he commanded, [Lord Cornbury] also had a fetish for ears, and made it a point of telling visitors to official state functions that they were free to fondle those of his wife …" http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2337/did-new-york-once-have-a-transvestite-governor

    President Obama can send Joe to fondle their ears. He can dress like Rudia and promote Love for England. We can ban encryption in Silicon Valley and get silicon breasts and bitch about leaks. Then... place the fish and chips onto the greaseproof paper and then into a sheet of newspaper. All you need now is a pickled onion, salt and MALT VINEGAR! TIPS ... Take one fillet of fish at a time and holding it by the tail or thin end (!) swirl it around the batter until well ... http://www.food.com/recipe/real-english-fish-and-chips-with-yorkshire-beer-batter-183399
    Now we're cooking with beer!

    I’ll probably blog about Lord Cornbury, Governor of New York and New Jersey, at some point. He is said to have been highly offended that the local legislature didn’t approve of him dressing like his cousin, Queen Anne.

  36. Read about this year’s ago.Apparently this woman is quite the mouse and was not doing great at KP.She hooked up with this ghetto hustler and the quest for social justice commenced.This black got his eyes on the prize! Typical that the white man gotta be blamed cuz some Indian schmuck did a P&D on this Asian low hanging fruit. Can’t the black,if he is hurtin for cash,borrow some Precious money from his bro?

  37. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie

    the philosophy of many people over there is that you look after yourself financially
     
    And that's not "the philosophy of many people over" here?

    Thus, Asian women can be real predators when it comes to cash.
     
    Because non-Asian women eschew money and are all saints. Come now. In East Asia, women don't get the children, the house, and half of men's assets automatically when they divorce.

    As a rule, Asian women are more likely to come from an impoverished background than white women, or else they’re only a generation or two removed from real poverty, and they have the mindset of people who have been poor.
     
    From Wiki:

    Her father, Young-Ping Pao, was a professor at New York University's Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences. Pao was raised in Maplewood, New Jersey.
     
    The median household income in Maplewood is over $100,000 per annum (it does have a relatively high black population of over 30% and it has very few Asians 3%, a number that was probably even lower when Pao grew up there; the town seems starkly divided income between the white and black areas, and my guess would be that Pao grew up in the white part of the town). So I doubt she came from "real poverty" or poverty of any kind.

    Where do you get these stereotypes? The vast majority of Asian women in America I know are pretty much yellow SWPLs: educated, affluent, trim, married to professional husbands, and all gung ho about organic food and eco-friendly stuff (of course, Asian women themselves are no. 11 on SWPL list).

    In any case, the best revenge is living well. This Pao woman apparently has a bachelor's in electrical engineering from Princeton, Harvard JD and MBA. She could go off and get a very lucrative gig elsewhere, but instead of that, she's in a legal version of the mother of all middle school cafeteria food fights. And that's the problem here. Our society cultivates the cult of the victim, so even elites go into the hysterical aggrieved mode and just don't let go.

    By the way, one thing that is unusual about this woman is her taste in men. Indians/Pakistanis and homosexual (or heterosexual) blacks are rarely the mates of choice for East Asian women. It does happen occasionally (e.g. Michelle Rhee), but it is a rather unusual thing (about 45% or so of American-born Asian women marry whites and most of the rest marry Asians; that number is more like 70%+ for foreign-born Asian women).

    By the way, one thing that is unusual about this woman is her taste in men. Indians/Pakistanis and homosexual (or heterosexual) blacks are rarely the mates of choice for East Asian women. It does happen occasionally (e.g. Michelle Rhee), but it is a rather unusual thing (about 45% or so of American-born Asian women marry whites and most of the rest marry Asians; that number is more like 70%+ for foreign-born Asian women).

    Rhee was divorced (Jewish guy) before she married Johnson. Who would marry a guy (Johnson) with more than one allegation of underage female molestation, one involving a payout?

    Pao seems to not only have issues, but a full subscription. I’m guessing she has a history/pattern of causing problems. I don’t know if this is the case, but I think a lot of whites give Asians a pass and assume the stereotypes when it comes to work ethic, agreeableness, and smarts. I think Asian-Americans benefit from white racism. If an Asian and a white with equal qualifications are competing for a job, the Asian has an advantage if the people hiring are white.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I don’t know if this is the case, but I think a lot of whites give Asians a pass and assume the stereotypes when it comes to work ethic, agreeableness, and smarts. I think Asian-Americans benefit from white racism. If an Asian and a white with equal qualifications are competing for a job, the Asian has an advantage if the people hiring are white.
     
    As much as whites have positive stereotypes of Asians (e.g. hard working, conscience, good at math, etc.), they also hold negative ones - that Asians are quiet, timid, cold, not decisive, not creative, that they do not make good leaders, etc. I've seen at least one poll that showed that Americans consider a president of Asian descent the least likely or qualified among major ethnic groups.

    All my life in this country, I have heard the following remarks from others, meant to be laudatory: "You are SO different from other Asians, Twinkie. You are decisive, bold, confident, and dominant; you think 'outside the box,' and make a good leader," etc. The implication is that Asians make good, smart, obedient worker bees, but never a leader or an agent of change, someone with a vision or charisma.

    I've never been hurt by these stereotypes - my wife is fond of saying that I dominate a room with my presence the moment I enter it (it doesn't hurt that I am considerably above the American average in height and musculature, and I have a certain swagger), but they are there for other Asian not so blessed with some of my attributes.
    , @Anonymous
    Don't businesses that hire Asians get some kind of Pokemon affirmative action points, or something like that?
  38. @Anonymous
    Okay, but why call it stealing? Just suggest he delete the numbers, because you think they are distracting.

    What are you, his lawyer?

    He stole it from Wikipedia. Just because he cited it doesn’t make it untrue.

  39. Kleiner has proven their savvy for many years. They obviously need to be brought down.

    Sorry, Twinkie, but our rude and combative recent Chinese immigrants are the New Jews. And their women make the average Jewess look like Mary Poppins.

    Mr. Fletcher seems to have, like Deval Patrick, just the right skill set to be elected governor of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Or president…

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Sorry, Twinkie, but our rude and combative recent Chinese immigrants are the New Jews. And their women make the average Jewess look like Mary Poppins.
     
    First of all, no need to say "sorry," as I am opposed to any mass immigration, Asian or otherwise (and I am not Chinese and don't have a high regard for them). I think it's salutary for ALL Americans and for the country as a whole that the U.S. remains predominantly (but not exclusively) a nation of northern European peoples.

    Second, China is the most backward and the least economically advanced of the East Asian countries (Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan are ahead), save North Korea (but of course, there is practically no immigration from North Korea). So it's not surprising that the Chinese are the least civilized of the bunch.

    There are some similarities between Jews and East Asians especially as immigrants, but the comparison has its limits. For one thing, a substantial fraction of East Asians, especially East Asian immigrants in the U.S. are Christians, often pretty diehard evangelicals. For another, their respective IQ strengths differ (verbal vs. visuo-spatial) and this manifests in their respective professional dominance (e.g. legal vs. engineering). They also have different attitudes toward assimilation and a whole host of other factors on the ideological-philosophical spectrum.
  40. @eah
    OT

    Happened to come across this:

    WaPo -- Americans are pretty bad at math. Especially young Americans

    Interestingly, it’s the younger cohorts who are dragging U.S. numeracy scores down.

    Yes, interesting.

    White students no longer to be majority in school

    Connecting those two dots is left as an exercise. But I doubt you can do it, since the nice, smart lady blogger at the WaPo couldn't manage it, although her specialty is "data-driven journalism".

    Yep. I saw that a few weeks back as well. I even commented on it under a different pseudonym, basically parroting what Steve has pointed out in the past. Surprisingly I didn’t get hit with the usual blast of ad hominen attacks. One guy did disagree using arguments often repeated and I responded with very Steve-like replies.

    I’m not sure what Catherine Rampell’s role is at the WaPost. She seems to be the voice of late 20s women living in DC. I looked up her bio because she seems to have a bit of Latino in her, but there’s no mention of her being the Post’s voice for Hispanics. She did go to Princeton but majored in anthropology. In the end, she seems to be what you find in huge numbers in the DC area. A smart in school woman who likes to think a lot about – and her case write about – superficial problems that affect her.

    Now, in Ms. Rampell’s case, that’s perfectly acceptable because she’s a columnist. Her job in some ways is to navel gaze, hoping that it strikes a cord with a readers of a key demographic group. But for the other 99.9% of similar women, it gets a bit old.

    Having dated a few, I can say that they are quite intelligent and, in general, good people, but there’s a depth missing. As Stein said, There’s no there there. It’s hard to put a finger on because I’m hardly some deep thinker or worldly soul. Perhaps, it’s a lack of real experience. I grew up in the middle of nowhere and my family had occasional money issues. Nothing that dramatic, but there was some chopping my way through the jungle to get to where I was going. These woman may not have been driven to their current destination in a limo, but they were driven. I think that it can limit your thinking.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Are you sure she doesn't live in New York? LOTB blogged about her 7 figure apartment there. Granted, that was when she wrote for the NYT, but I'm sure WaPo has reporters in New York too.
    , @Truth

    In the end, she seems to be what you find in huge numbers in the DC area. A smart in school woman who likes to think a lot about – and her case write about – superficial problems that affect her.
     
    Yo Unzino, I hear she works cheap!
  41. another Kleiner partner inappropriately gave her Leonard Cohen’s sex-drenched Book of Longing

    I hope that the trial involves a couple of literature professors dueling as expert witnesses about the nuances of Cohen’s “sex-drenched” poems.

    Here is the Amazon summary of the poetry book:

    Leonard Cohen wrote the poems in Book of Longing — his first book of poetry in more than twenty years — during his five-year stay at a Zen monastery on Southern California’s Mount Baldy, and in Los Angeles, Montreal, and Mumbai. This dazzling collection is enhanced by the author’s playful and provocative drawings, which interact in exciting, unexpected ways on the page with poetry that is timeless, meditative, and often darkly humorous. An international sensation, Book of Longing contains all the elements that have brought Cohen’s artistry with language worldwide recognition.

    I would have advised the Kleiner partner to give to Pao instead Henry Wadworth Longfellow’s marvelous The Song of Hiawatha, an epic poem that every American should read. Here is how it begins:

    Should you ask me, whence these stories?
    Whence these legends and traditions,
    With the odours of the forest,
    With the dew and damp of meadows,
    With the curling smoke of wigwams,
    With the rushing of great rivers,
    With their frequent repetitions,
    And their wild reverberations,
    As of thunder in the mountains?

    I should answer, I should tell you,
    “From the forests and the prairies,
    From the great lakes of the Northland,
    From the land of the Ojibways,
    From the land of the Dacotahs,
    From the mountains, moors, and fenlands,
    Where the heron, the Shuh-shuh-gah,
    Feeds among the reeds and rushes.

    I repeat them as I heard them
    From the lips of Nawadaha,
    The musician, the sweet singer.”

    Should you ask where Nawadaha
    Found these songs, so wild and wayward,
    Found these legends and traditions,

    I should answer, I should tell you,
    “In the bird’s-nests of the forest,
    In the lodges of the beaver,
    In the hoof-prints of the bison,
    In the eyry of the eagle —
    All the wild-fowl sang them to him,
    In the moorlands and the fenlands,
    In the melancholy marshes ;
    Chetowaik, the plover, sang them.

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    Is the the "by the shores of Gitchee Goomie " thing?
  42. I love the opening paragraph of the Times story (by one David Streitfeld, of course). It’s just all the baloney you could fit into a single sandwich.

    Otherwise, this story is hilarious. And very sad. Because this is the future of America with our new generation of Asian elites. Nothing but scams, grifts, corruption and crazy.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    I love the opening paragraph of the Times story (by one David Streitfeld, of course). It’s just all the baloney you could fit into a single sandwich.
     
    "Streitfeld"? Field of controversy? Is that apt?
  43. @unit472
    OTOH the CEO of Boeing had to resign a few years ago for having a 'consensual affair' with a female executive. I've always been of the opinion that it is not a good idea to fish in the company pond but I can imagine the blowback if a company forbade it or fired Pao and geek Lothario Nazre for romancing on company time.

    This Fletcher guy has lived the Black American Dream. Obviously incompetent as a money manager- why anyone would give money to a black to manage is beyond me as a black CEO screams falling profits if not imminent bankruptcy ( McDonalds anyone?) but public pension funds are sometimes in a bind if they don't. Still you get what you pay for and in Fletcher's case you paid to let Fletcher live it up before he was exposed.

    Too bad defendants in these kind of cases can't pick the venue. I once suggested to a hillbilly rancher in Grayson County, Virginia that I should sue Asplundh tree service for cutting some trees down on my property on a Appalachian Power right of way. He looked at me as the city slicker I was and said " Ain't nobody around here got any money and they ain't gonna give you any either!". In Silicon Valley unfortunately a few million dollars is just walking around money. Won't even buy you a decent house!

    “the CEO of Boeing had to resign a few years ago for having a ‘consensual affair’ with a female executive”

    I was there at a small local Boeing office when it happened. We had just been through a round of mandatory ethics and sexual harassment training when the media announced the CEO had been doing the hanky-panky with one of his groupies.

    These computer-generated complaints about the treatment of women in tech have been cliche’ for at least a decade now. I got laid off from Boeing shortly after they had spent months and hundreds of thousands of dollars renovating the ladie’s restroom near my cubicle to provide “breast-pumping stations”. Always a pleasure now to see a Boeing commercial featuring every ethnic and sexual group on the planet in teamwork to design the next generation of airplanes.

    I have been canned a couple dozen times in my sketchy career but still manage to pull in a good income as a technocrat. The wails about female oppression in tech never consider that men get shafted all the time and nobody complains about it.

    Such as the latest nonsense from Sheryl Sandberg that women are not being allowed to talk during meetings. Fact is they are terrified of being publicly impaled for taking a risk they way men are every damn day in every industry.

  44. Buddy Fletcher was in my class at Harvard and was elected Class Marshall our senior year. I was never sure what that office entailed, but I think it was basically a popularity contest–and Buddy was very popular, for reasons I could never quite understand.

    I always found his deep-voiced, Talented Mr. Ripley prepster act creepy and so generally kept my distance. As things have turned out, I’m really glad I did, although it’s certainly been interesting to watch things unfold from a distance…

    And speaking of things unfolding, my wife was pretty shocked to hear Buddy’s brother’s name when he won that Oscar. She explained that he was famous among her undergraduate friends for exposing himself to one of them while they were on a date, before the woman in question had expressed any romantic interest whatever. That ended the date right there, but apparently the image has remained pretty unexpungeable.

  45. @ScarletNumber
    Point is, the numbers are distracting.

    Scarlet Number says, “Point is, the numbers are distracting.”

    So your inability to focus becomes Steve’s theft of ideas?

    How very 21st century of you.

  46. @unit472
    OTOH the CEO of Boeing had to resign a few years ago for having a 'consensual affair' with a female executive. I've always been of the opinion that it is not a good idea to fish in the company pond but I can imagine the blowback if a company forbade it or fired Pao and geek Lothario Nazre for romancing on company time.

    This Fletcher guy has lived the Black American Dream. Obviously incompetent as a money manager- why anyone would give money to a black to manage is beyond me as a black CEO screams falling profits if not imminent bankruptcy ( McDonalds anyone?) but public pension funds are sometimes in a bind if they don't. Still you get what you pay for and in Fletcher's case you paid to let Fletcher live it up before he was exposed.

    Too bad defendants in these kind of cases can't pick the venue. I once suggested to a hillbilly rancher in Grayson County, Virginia that I should sue Asplundh tree service for cutting some trees down on my property on a Appalachian Power right of way. He looked at me as the city slicker I was and said " Ain't nobody around here got any money and they ain't gonna give you any either!". In Silicon Valley unfortunately a few million dollars is just walking around money. Won't even buy you a decent house!

    You can’t always take a local’s opinion for how litigation might turn out. In 1984, the british coal miners’ pension trust sued a prominent Kern County rancher for fraud, after he sold them thousands of diseased almond trees. I asked the veteran trial judge how he thought it would turn out, and he predicted a defense verdict. He was wrong, as the jury came in for $10 million.

  47. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Yep. I saw that a few weeks back as well. I even commented on it under a different pseudonym, basically parroting what Steve has pointed out in the past. Surprisingly I didn't get hit with the usual blast of ad hominen attacks. One guy did disagree using arguments often repeated and I responded with very Steve-like replies.

    I'm not sure what Catherine Rampell's role is at the WaPost. She seems to be the voice of late 20s women living in DC. I looked up her bio because she seems to have a bit of Latino in her, but there's no mention of her being the Post's voice for Hispanics. She did go to Princeton but majored in anthropology. In the end, she seems to be what you find in huge numbers in the DC area. A smart in school woman who likes to think a lot about - and her case write about - superficial problems that affect her.

    Now, in Ms. Rampell's case, that's perfectly acceptable because she's a columnist. Her job in some ways is to navel gaze, hoping that it strikes a cord with a readers of a key demographic group. But for the other 99.9% of similar women, it gets a bit old.

    Having dated a few, I can say that they are quite intelligent and, in general, good people, but there's a depth missing. As Stein said, There's no there there. It's hard to put a finger on because I'm hardly some deep thinker or worldly soul. Perhaps, it's a lack of real experience. I grew up in the middle of nowhere and my family had occasional money issues. Nothing that dramatic, but there was some chopping my way through the jungle to get to where I was going. These woman may not have been driven to their current destination in a limo, but they were driven. I think that it can limit your thinking.

    Are you sure she doesn’t live in New York? LOTB blogged about her 7 figure apartment there. Granted, that was when she wrote for the NYT, but I’m sure WaPo has reporters in New York too.

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Good point. I'm not sure. However, I'd suspect that the late-20s, good college ladies in NYC are pretty similar to the late-20s, good college ladies in the DC area, but I could be wrong. I've never lived in the NYC area, though I've met plenty of people from there in DC. Very smart people, who definitely understand the world the counts a lot better than I do.
  48. @Space Ghost
    I can't believe they left off the fact that Fletcher was gay before he married Ms. Pao. I thought it wasn't possible to switch teams like that? But that would mean this is probably just a shakedown. I'd better not think too hard about this, I might get a case of the vapors.


    ''My parents always said we should always strive to be better than the best,'' said Mr. Fletcher, who lives with his partner of more than 10 years, Hobart V. Folkes Jr., on the Upper West Side.
     
    www.nytimes.com/2004/05/18/nyregion/50-million-gift-aims-to-further-legacy-of-brown-case.html

    I can’t believe they left off the fact that Fletcher was gay before he married Ms. Pao. I thought it wasn’t possible to switch teams like that?

    Steve has given the canonical treatment of interracial angle.

    http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/color/articles/sailer.html

    But beyond East Asian women’s body fat and female compliance–helping make them tractable wife material–it is nonetheless the case that they are not as “curvy”. And in fact, one effect of one East Asian allele is reduced breast size. So while more “feminine” they are also more “boyish” of figure. The East Asian gals are often the last stand, before the guy flat out admits to himself that he’s queer.

    Ellen Po is a particular boyish–ugly boyish–looking woman. From Fletcher’s perspective i doubt there’s been much change in what he’s seeing or what he’s doing.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    But beyond East Asian women’s body fat and female compliance–helping make them tractable wife material–it is nonetheless the case that they are not as “curvy”. And in fact, one effect of one East Asian allele is reduced breast size. So while more “feminine” they are also more “boyish” of figure.
     
    A boyish figure means straight hips. East Asians have much broader hips (compared to waist size) than do Blacks.
    , @Twinkie

    Steve has given the canonical treatment of interracial angle.
     
    It's been a long time since I read the article, but it is flawed at least as it regards Asian marriages in America. The huge disparity in numbers between WMAF and AMWF couples (something like 70% vs. 15%) is overwhelmingly due to the low status of immigrant males. Among the American-born, the disparity is much smaller, only around 9% or so. Over a third of American-born Asian *males* marry white spouses, an astounding out-marriage rate. It also speaks to the assimilative nature of Asian immigration since the foreign-born Asian males out-marry white females at only 15% or so.

    But beyond East Asian women’s body fat and female compliance–helping make them tractable wife material–it is nonetheless the case that they are not as “curvy”. And in fact, one effect of one East Asian allele is reduced breast size. So while more “feminine” they are also more “boyish” of figure.
     
    There is some confusion here about female "curviness."

    Asian women typically have the smallest waist and the widest pelvic bone (otherwise they wouldn't be able to give birth to bigger-headed Asian babies). The waist-to-hip ratio of 0.7 is supposed to be the golden ratio that men find the most attractive, because it's supposed to signal optimum health and feminine fertility. In that regard, Asian women are the curviest of the bunch (seen from the front).

    They are rarely overweight. They also do not have big breasts. Nor do they have protruding glutes. Meaning, they look flat seen from the side.

    Black women are the opposite. They have the narrowest pelvic bones and the thickest waists. They are straight down or "boyish" (or man-ish) seen from the front. This is most certainly not considered attractive to males, across different cultures. But they do have protruding glutes and are much more likely to be overweight.

    The East Asian gals are often the last stand, before the guy flat out admits to himself that he’s queer.
     
    This has absolutely no basis in fact.
    , @The most deplorable one

    But beyond East Asian women’s body fat and female compliance–helping make them tractable wife material–it is nonetheless the case that they are not as “curvy”.
     
    I see that you know relatively little about Asian females.

    As to curvy, who cares. They have breasts and a uterus, and when they have functioning ovaries that is all that they really need.
  49. Steve,

    Your old “Is Love Colorblind” article on iSteve appears to have been hacked.
    (www.isteve.com/islovecolorblind.htm — careful clicking may have malicious code)

    All i found–five minute search with bind and google–that was intact was a text-only version on Linda Gotfredson’s site:

    http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/color/articles/sailer.html

    It would be goodness for you to get a clean link, to a nicely formatted version–with the bar charts, etc. of that article. It is a very nice piece of work and deserves to be preserved.

  50. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    But beyond East Asian women’s body fat and female compliance–helping make them tractable wife material–it is nonetheless the case that they are not as “curvy”. And in fact, one effect of one East Asian allele is reduced breast size. So while more “feminine” they are also more “boyish” of figure. The East Asian gals are often the last stand, before the guy flat out admits to himself that he’s queer.

    Black women have the most curves and biggest boobs and butts. Yet they are the most masculine. I don’t think curves equals femininity. East Asian females are the most feminine in their features and behavior. Pao looks a little masculine to me in some pictures. She’s kind of unattractive as East Asian females go.

    • Replies: @Kaz
    >Black women have the most curves and biggest boobs and butts. Yet they are the most masculine.

    Black women are the fattest (the bad way).

    What you said is just bullshit that is repeated ad nausea in the mass media so to make black women not feel completely bad.
    , @marv
    This is why SV has to hire more black women. Nobody, not even married men, will want to canoodle with them.
  51. @Mike Sylwester

    another Kleiner partner inappropriately gave her Leonard Cohen’s sex-drenched Book of Longing
     
    I hope that the trial involves a couple of literature professors dueling as expert witnesses about the nuances of Cohen's "sex-drenched" poems.

    Here is the Amazon summary of the poetry book:


    Leonard Cohen wrote the poems in Book of Longing — his first book of poetry in more than twenty years — during his five-year stay at a Zen monastery on Southern California's Mount Baldy, and in Los Angeles, Montreal, and Mumbai. This dazzling collection is enhanced by the author's playful and provocative drawings, which interact in exciting, unexpected ways on the page with poetry that is timeless, meditative, and often darkly humorous. An international sensation, Book of Longing contains all the elements that have brought Cohen's artistry with language worldwide recognition.
     
    I would have advised the Kleiner partner to give to Pao instead Henry Wadworth Longfellow's marvelous The Song of Hiawatha, an epic poem that every American should read. Here is how it begins:

    Should you ask me, whence these stories?
    Whence these legends and traditions,
    With the odours of the forest,
    With the dew and damp of meadows,
    With the curling smoke of wigwams,
    With the rushing of great rivers,
    With their frequent repetitions,
    And their wild reverberations,
    As of thunder in the mountains?

    I should answer, I should tell you,
    "From the forests and the prairies,
    From the great lakes of the Northland,
    From the land of the Ojibways,
    From the land of the Dacotahs,
    From the mountains, moors, and fenlands,
    Where the heron, the Shuh-shuh-gah,
    Feeds among the reeds and rushes.

    I repeat them as I heard them
    From the lips of Nawadaha,
    The musician, the sweet singer."

    Should you ask where Nawadaha
    Found these songs, so wild and wayward,
    Found these legends and traditions,

    I should answer, I should tell you,
    "In the bird's-nests of the forest,
    In the lodges of the beaver,
    In the hoof-prints of the bison,
    In the eyry of the eagle --
    All the wild-fowl sang them to him,
    In the moorlands and the fenlands,
    In the melancholy marshes ;
    Chetowaik, the plover, sang them.
     

    Is the the “by the shores of Gitchee Goomie ” thing?

  52. @Anonymous

    But beyond East Asian women’s body fat and female compliance–helping make them tractable wife material–it is nonetheless the case that they are not as “curvy”. And in fact, one effect of one East Asian allele is reduced breast size. So while more “feminine” they are also more “boyish” of figure. The East Asian gals are often the last stand, before the guy flat out admits to himself that he’s queer.
     
    Black women have the most curves and biggest boobs and butts. Yet they are the most masculine. I don't think curves equals femininity. East Asian females are the most feminine in their features and behavior. Pao looks a little masculine to me in some pictures. She's kind of unattractive as East Asian females go.

    >Black women have the most curves and biggest boobs and butts. Yet they are the most masculine.

    Black women are the fattest (the bad way).

    What you said is just bullshit that is repeated ad nausea in the mass media so to make black women not feel completely bad.

  53. IMHO this is just a case of a female who couldn’t cut it trying to cash out the only way she knows how. Race doesn’t have anything to do with the whole sordid mess.
    Ms Pao is quite masculine looking – she and Mr Fletcher could well be in a marriage of convenience while indulging their true desires on the down low.

  54. @Anonymous

    But beyond East Asian women’s body fat and female compliance–helping make them tractable wife material–it is nonetheless the case that they are not as “curvy”. And in fact, one effect of one East Asian allele is reduced breast size. So while more “feminine” they are also more “boyish” of figure. The East Asian gals are often the last stand, before the guy flat out admits to himself that he’s queer.
     
    Black women have the most curves and biggest boobs and butts. Yet they are the most masculine. I don't think curves equals femininity. East Asian females are the most feminine in their features and behavior. Pao looks a little masculine to me in some pictures. She's kind of unattractive as East Asian females go.

    This is why SV has to hire more black women. Nobody, not even married men, will want to canoodle with them.

  55. Pao has a huge chin, which following Roissy I credit to excess testosterone. There’s also the strong hint from all those degrees that she’s pretty aggressive. She probably threw herself at Nazre and he likely thought (wrongly) that an affair with her would be less likely to produce an embarassing lawsuit than a fling with a secretary; I’ll bet N. shares with Buddy some taste for domineering women. Maybe Pao owns a suitcase full of leather fancy dress and kinky toys. Nazre really should have been more wary of the tiger lady phenomenon.

  56. @Brutusale
    Kleiner has proven their savvy for many years. They obviously need to be brought down.

    Sorry, Twinkie, but our rude and combative recent Chinese immigrants are the New Jews. And their women make the average Jewess look like Mary Poppins.

    Mr. Fletcher seems to have, like Deval Patrick, just the right skill set to be elected governor of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Or president...

    Sorry, Twinkie, but our rude and combative recent Chinese immigrants are the New Jews. And their women make the average Jewess look like Mary Poppins.

    First of all, no need to say “sorry,” as I am opposed to any mass immigration, Asian or otherwise (and I am not Chinese and don’t have a high regard for them). I think it’s salutary for ALL Americans and for the country as a whole that the U.S. remains predominantly (but not exclusively) a nation of northern European peoples.

    Second, China is the most backward and the least economically advanced of the East Asian countries (Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan are ahead), save North Korea (but of course, there is practically no immigration from North Korea). So it’s not surprising that the Chinese are the least civilized of the bunch.

    There are some similarities between Jews and East Asians especially as immigrants, but the comparison has its limits. For one thing, a substantial fraction of East Asians, especially East Asian immigrants in the U.S. are Christians, often pretty diehard evangelicals. For another, their respective IQ strengths differ (verbal vs. visuo-spatial) and this manifests in their respective professional dominance (e.g. legal vs. engineering). They also have different attitudes toward assimilation and a whole host of other factors on the ideological-philosophical spectrum.

  57. @Anonymous

    By the way, one thing that is unusual about this woman is her taste in men. Indians/Pakistanis and homosexual (or heterosexual) blacks are rarely the mates of choice for East Asian women. It does happen occasionally (e.g. Michelle Rhee), but it is a rather unusual thing (about 45% or so of American-born Asian women marry whites and most of the rest marry Asians; that number is more like 70%+ for foreign-born Asian women).
     
    Rhee was divorced (Jewish guy) before she married Johnson. Who would marry a guy (Johnson) with more than one allegation of underage female molestation, one involving a payout?

    Pao seems to not only have issues, but a full subscription. I'm guessing she has a history/pattern of causing problems. I don't know if this is the case, but I think a lot of whites give Asians a pass and assume the stereotypes when it comes to work ethic, agreeableness, and smarts. I think Asian-Americans benefit from white racism. If an Asian and a white with equal qualifications are competing for a job, the Asian has an advantage if the people hiring are white.

    I don’t know if this is the case, but I think a lot of whites give Asians a pass and assume the stereotypes when it comes to work ethic, agreeableness, and smarts. I think Asian-Americans benefit from white racism. If an Asian and a white with equal qualifications are competing for a job, the Asian has an advantage if the people hiring are white.

    As much as whites have positive stereotypes of Asians (e.g. hard working, conscience, good at math, etc.), they also hold negative ones – that Asians are quiet, timid, cold, not decisive, not creative, that they do not make good leaders, etc. I’ve seen at least one poll that showed that Americans consider a president of Asian descent the least likely or qualified among major ethnic groups.

    All my life in this country, I have heard the following remarks from others, meant to be laudatory: “You are SO different from other Asians, Twinkie. You are decisive, bold, confident, and dominant; you think ‘outside the box,’ and make a good leader,” etc. The implication is that Asians make good, smart, obedient worker bees, but never a leader or an agent of change, someone with a vision or charisma.

    I’ve never been hurt by these stereotypes – my wife is fond of saying that I dominate a room with my presence the moment I enter it (it doesn’t hurt that I am considerably above the American average in height and musculature, and I have a certain swagger), but they are there for other Asian not so blessed with some of my attributes.

  58. @Anonymous

    By the way, one thing that is unusual about this woman is her taste in men. Indians/Pakistanis and homosexual (or heterosexual) blacks are rarely the mates of choice for East Asian women. It does happen occasionally (e.g. Michelle Rhee), but it is a rather unusual thing (about 45% or so of American-born Asian women marry whites and most of the rest marry Asians; that number is more like 70%+ for foreign-born Asian women).
     
    Rhee was divorced (Jewish guy) before she married Johnson. Who would marry a guy (Johnson) with more than one allegation of underage female molestation, one involving a payout?

    Pao seems to not only have issues, but a full subscription. I'm guessing she has a history/pattern of causing problems. I don't know if this is the case, but I think a lot of whites give Asians a pass and assume the stereotypes when it comes to work ethic, agreeableness, and smarts. I think Asian-Americans benefit from white racism. If an Asian and a white with equal qualifications are competing for a job, the Asian has an advantage if the people hiring are white.

    Don’t businesses that hire Asians get some kind of Pokemon affirmative action points, or something like that?

  59. The proceedings could resonate widely: A guilty verdict will be billed as a sweeping indictment of the high-tech world….

    Once again, we see the NYT publishing a story without review by an editor. A “guilty” verdict in a civil suit? What a howler!

  60. @AnotherDad
    I can’t believe they left off the fact that Fletcher was gay before he married Ms. Pao. I thought it wasn’t possible to switch teams like that?

    Steve has given the canonical treatment of interracial angle.
    http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/color/articles/sailer.html

    But beyond East Asian women's body fat and female compliance--helping make them tractable wife material--it is nonetheless the case that they are not as "curvy". And in fact, one effect of one East Asian allele is reduced breast size. So while more "feminine" they are also more "boyish" of figure. The East Asian gals are often the last stand, before the guy flat out admits to himself that he's queer.

    Ellen Po is a particular boyish--ugly boyish--looking woman. From Fletcher's perspective i doubt there's been much change in what he's seeing or what he's doing.

    But beyond East Asian women’s body fat and female compliance–helping make them tractable wife material–it is nonetheless the case that they are not as “curvy”. And in fact, one effect of one East Asian allele is reduced breast size. So while more “feminine” they are also more “boyish” of figure.

    A boyish figure means straight hips. East Asians have much broader hips (compared to waist size) than do Blacks.

    • Replies: @Truth



    A boyish figure means straight hips. East Asians have much broader hips (compared to waist size) than do Blacks.
     
    What planet do you make home, again?
  61. @peterike
    I love the opening paragraph of the Times story (by one David Streitfeld, of course). It's just all the baloney you could fit into a single sandwich.

    Otherwise, this story is hilarious. And very sad. Because this is the future of America with our new generation of Asian elites. Nothing but scams, grifts, corruption and crazy.

    I love the opening paragraph of the Times story (by one David Streitfeld, of course). It’s just all the baloney you could fit into a single sandwich.

    “Streitfeld”? Field of controversy? Is that apt?

  62. @AnotherDad
    I can’t believe they left off the fact that Fletcher was gay before he married Ms. Pao. I thought it wasn’t possible to switch teams like that?

    Steve has given the canonical treatment of interracial angle.
    http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/color/articles/sailer.html

    But beyond East Asian women's body fat and female compliance--helping make them tractable wife material--it is nonetheless the case that they are not as "curvy". And in fact, one effect of one East Asian allele is reduced breast size. So while more "feminine" they are also more "boyish" of figure. The East Asian gals are often the last stand, before the guy flat out admits to himself that he's queer.

    Ellen Po is a particular boyish--ugly boyish--looking woman. From Fletcher's perspective i doubt there's been much change in what he's seeing or what he's doing.

    Steve has given the canonical treatment of interracial angle.

    It’s been a long time since I read the article, but it is flawed at least as it regards Asian marriages in America. The huge disparity in numbers between WMAF and AMWF couples (something like 70% vs. 15%) is overwhelmingly due to the low status of immigrant males. Among the American-born, the disparity is much smaller, only around 9% or so. Over a third of American-born Asian *males* marry white spouses, an astounding out-marriage rate. It also speaks to the assimilative nature of Asian immigration since the foreign-born Asian males out-marry white females at only 15% or so.

    But beyond East Asian women’s body fat and female compliance–helping make them tractable wife material–it is nonetheless the case that they are not as “curvy”. And in fact, one effect of one East Asian allele is reduced breast size. So while more “feminine” they are also more “boyish” of figure.

    There is some confusion here about female “curviness.”

    Asian women typically have the smallest waist and the widest pelvic bone (otherwise they wouldn’t be able to give birth to bigger-headed Asian babies). The waist-to-hip ratio of 0.7 is supposed to be the golden ratio that men find the most attractive, because it’s supposed to signal optimum health and feminine fertility. In that regard, Asian women are the curviest of the bunch (seen from the front).

    They are rarely overweight. They also do not have big breasts. Nor do they have protruding glutes. Meaning, they look flat seen from the side.

    Black women are the opposite. They have the narrowest pelvic bones and the thickest waists. They are straight down or “boyish” (or man-ish) seen from the front. This is most certainly not considered attractive to males, across different cultures. But they do have protruding glutes and are much more likely to be overweight.

    The East Asian gals are often the last stand, before the guy flat out admits to himself that he’s queer.

    This has absolutely no basis in fact.

  63. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @AnotherDad
    I can’t believe they left off the fact that Fletcher was gay before he married Ms. Pao. I thought it wasn’t possible to switch teams like that?

    Steve has given the canonical treatment of interracial angle.
    http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/color/articles/sailer.html

    But beyond East Asian women's body fat and female compliance--helping make them tractable wife material--it is nonetheless the case that they are not as "curvy". And in fact, one effect of one East Asian allele is reduced breast size. So while more "feminine" they are also more "boyish" of figure. The East Asian gals are often the last stand, before the guy flat out admits to himself that he's queer.

    Ellen Po is a particular boyish--ugly boyish--looking woman. From Fletcher's perspective i doubt there's been much change in what he's seeing or what he's doing.

    But beyond East Asian women’s body fat and female compliance–helping make them tractable wife material–it is nonetheless the case that they are not as “curvy”.

    I see that you know relatively little about Asian females.

    As to curvy, who cares. They have breasts and a uterus, and when they have functioning ovaries that is all that they really need.

  64. There is an uproar over a lack of diversity in tech…

    …because women and minorities want to see the money. H1B’s don’t.

    Guess who gets hired?

  65. @Dave Pinsen
    Are you sure she doesn't live in New York? LOTB blogged about her 7 figure apartment there. Granted, that was when she wrote for the NYT, but I'm sure WaPo has reporters in New York too.

    Good point. I’m not sure. However, I’d suspect that the late-20s, good college ladies in NYC are pretty similar to the late-20s, good college ladies in the DC area, but I could be wrong. I’ve never lived in the NYC area, though I’ve met plenty of people from there in DC. Very smart people, who definitely understand the world the counts a lot better than I do.

  66. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Yep. I saw that a few weeks back as well. I even commented on it under a different pseudonym, basically parroting what Steve has pointed out in the past. Surprisingly I didn't get hit with the usual blast of ad hominen attacks. One guy did disagree using arguments often repeated and I responded with very Steve-like replies.

    I'm not sure what Catherine Rampell's role is at the WaPost. She seems to be the voice of late 20s women living in DC. I looked up her bio because she seems to have a bit of Latino in her, but there's no mention of her being the Post's voice for Hispanics. She did go to Princeton but majored in anthropology. In the end, she seems to be what you find in huge numbers in the DC area. A smart in school woman who likes to think a lot about - and her case write about - superficial problems that affect her.

    Now, in Ms. Rampell's case, that's perfectly acceptable because she's a columnist. Her job in some ways is to navel gaze, hoping that it strikes a cord with a readers of a key demographic group. But for the other 99.9% of similar women, it gets a bit old.

    Having dated a few, I can say that they are quite intelligent and, in general, good people, but there's a depth missing. As Stein said, There's no there there. It's hard to put a finger on because I'm hardly some deep thinker or worldly soul. Perhaps, it's a lack of real experience. I grew up in the middle of nowhere and my family had occasional money issues. Nothing that dramatic, but there was some chopping my way through the jungle to get to where I was going. These woman may not have been driven to their current destination in a limo, but they were driven. I think that it can limit your thinking.

    In the end, she seems to be what you find in huge numbers in the DC area. A smart in school woman who likes to think a lot about – and her case write about – superficial problems that affect her.

    Yo Unzino, I hear she works cheap!

  67. @ben tillman

    But beyond East Asian women’s body fat and female compliance–helping make them tractable wife material–it is nonetheless the case that they are not as “curvy”. And in fact, one effect of one East Asian allele is reduced breast size. So while more “feminine” they are also more “boyish” of figure.
     
    A boyish figure means straight hips. East Asians have much broader hips (compared to waist size) than do Blacks.

    A boyish figure means straight hips. East Asians have much broader hips (compared to waist size) than do Blacks.

    What planet do you make home, again?

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    What planet do you make home, again?
     
    Read Twinkie's comment.
  68. I met the youngest Fletcher brother once. He taught music at an elite boarding school in Switzerland but was apparently fired for having sexual relations with the grandson and granddaughter of the founder of the school… Alphonse married, it was supposed, so their mother could have a grandchild, since all three brothers are gay

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    All three? Is that a record? The highest number I've seen before is 3 of Thomas Mann's 6 children.
  69. @Truth



    A boyish figure means straight hips. East Asians have much broader hips (compared to waist size) than do Blacks.
     
    What planet do you make home, again?

    What planet do you make home, again?

    Read Twinkie’s comment.

    • Replies: @Truth
    Twinkie seems like a nice young man; but why do you take his comments as gospel, again?
  70. @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    I met the youngest Fletcher brother once. He taught music at an elite boarding school in Switzerland but was apparently fired for having sexual relations with the grandson and granddaughter of the founder of the school... Alphonse married, it was supposed, so their mother could have a grandchild, since all three brothers are gay

    All three? Is that a record? The highest number I’ve seen before is 3 of Thomas Mann’s 6 children.

    • Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    Well, the younger one apparently switch hits, but has a preferred side of the plate... and the switch hitting might have been out of spite as the daughter of the foundress (and mother to his conquests) converted to Catholicism and became quite right wing... maybe they drew straws to see who had to provide the grandchild...
    , @Reg Cæsar


    since all three brothers are gay
     
    All three?
     
    And (to repeat the opening clause), as I've been pointing out for a couple of years, consanguinity law is traditionally written to be sex-specific. So when a court imposes "same-sex marriage" on a state, blood-relation bans don't necessarily follow in its wake. The legislature has some rewriting to do.

    So any two of the Fletcher boys could marry one another!

    Not in their native Connecticut, which as far as I know is the only court-ordered state to rewrite the law. But certainly in Massachusetts (since 2003) and Iowa (2008).

    But unfortunately not now in Alabama. Most Southern states, unlike in the north and west, have "gender-neutral" language already. Mississippi is an exception.

    , @colm
    4 out of 5 Wittgenstein brothers were gay. 3 of them killed themselves because of that. And we all know about Ludwig.

    The only non-gay Wittgenstein was the pianist who lost an arm. He did have a son but apparently that boy was an invalid for all his life so there are no more Wittgensteins.
  71. @Steve Sailer
    All three? Is that a record? The highest number I've seen before is 3 of Thomas Mann's 6 children.

    Well, the younger one apparently switch hits, but has a preferred side of the plate… and the switch hitting might have been out of spite as the daughter of the foundress (and mother to his conquests) converted to Catholicism and became quite right wing… maybe they drew straws to see who had to provide the grandchild…

  72. @ben tillman

    What planet do you make home, again?
     
    Read Twinkie's comment.

    Twinkie seems like a nice young man; but why do you take his comments as gospel, again?

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Twinkie seems like a nice young man; but why do you take his comments as gospel, again?
     
    1. I am not as young as I'd like. Let's just say that I am well beyond my physical peak, and no one would call me a "young man" in person (though I look about 10 years younger than my age due to good genes and clean living).

    2. Rushton: http://www.toqonline.com/archives/v2n1/TOQv2n1Rushton.pdf

    So the next question is, “Why do East Asians and Whites have wider hips than Blacks, and so make poorer runners?” The answer is that they give birth to larger-brained babies. During evolution, as the head size of newborns increased, women had to have a wider pelvis. Orientals average 1 cubic inch more cranial capacity than Whites, and Whites average a very large 5 cubic inches more cranial capacity than Blacks.
     
    , @Brutusale
    Funny how commenters take as Gospel the word of atypical members of certain races, huh?
  73. @Steve Sailer
    All three? Is that a record? The highest number I've seen before is 3 of Thomas Mann's 6 children.

    since all three brothers are gay

    All three?

    And (to repeat the opening clause), as I’ve been pointing out for a couple of years, consanguinity law is traditionally written to be sex-specific. So when a court imposes “same-sex marriage” on a state, blood-relation bans don’t necessarily follow in its wake. The legislature has some rewriting to do.

    So any two of the Fletcher boys could marry one another!

    Not in their native Connecticut, which as far as I know is the only court-ordered state to rewrite the law. But certainly in Massachusetts (since 2003) and Iowa (2008).

    But unfortunately not now in Alabama. Most Southern states, unlike in the north and west, have “gender-neutral” language already. Mississippi is an exception.

  74. @Truth
    Twinkie seems like a nice young man; but why do you take his comments as gospel, again?

    Twinkie seems like a nice young man; but why do you take his comments as gospel, again?

    1. I am not as young as I’d like. Let’s just say that I am well beyond my physical peak, and no one would call me a “young man” in person (though I look about 10 years younger than my age due to good genes and clean living).

    2. Rushton: http://www.toqonline.com/archives/v2n1/TOQv2n1Rushton.pdf

    So the next question is, “Why do East Asians and Whites have wider hips than Blacks, and so make poorer runners?” The answer is that they give birth to larger-brained babies. During evolution, as the head size of newborns increased, women had to have a wider pelvis. Orientals average 1 cubic inch more cranial capacity than Whites, and Whites average a very large 5 cubic inches more cranial capacity than Blacks.

    • Replies: @Truth

    (though I look about 10 years younger than my age due to good genes and clean living).

     

    Never saw that one coming!

    Anyway, a few interesting points on this article:

    From what I remember from my jr. high science courses, a scientific rule cannot have an exception, because one exception can invalidate a rule. On page 2 he has a whole chart in which he attempts to prove that there is an Asian-White-Black continuum to everything, Asians at one end, whites in the middle, blacks at the other, now, he rates the three "races" for "cultural achievements", and puts Asians: Higher, Whites: Higher, Blacks: Lower. Is this a cop-out, or does he really consider Asian cultural achievement to be equal with that of whites?

    On the next page the author writes, of African college students


    In a second study, we administered the same test to another group of psychology students
    who scored an IQ of 83. After training on how to solve these types of tests, their
    IQs rose to 96.
     
    Whoa! wait a minute. A 13 point IQ gain after a few hours of "test-prep?" I thought this was not possible!

    Finally, there is nothing in this study that indicates that Asians have a higher hip-waist ratio than blacks. Unless I missed something.

    This article seemed fraught with the author's silly biases, although I'm sure it was somewhat factual.

    I think the issue with this is that it makes me wonder; in this age of great genetic studies, it seems the planet does not need black people, as they are in inferior race, but, apparently, so are white people.

    I have a question; why not just isolate the desirable light eye and hair genes, and graft them onto Asians, then kill everyone else? Hear me out now, would this not be the best solution for humanity?

    We could also graft the "horniness" gene from black people so that after 80% of the population was gone, the world would quickly replenish itself.

    In this way, Twinkie, guys like yourself would not be suckered, by a pair of blue eyes, into marrying down, and polluting your superior gene pool.
  75. @Truth
    Twinkie seems like a nice young man; but why do you take his comments as gospel, again?

    Funny how commenters take as Gospel the word of atypical members of certain races, huh?

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Funny how commenters take as Gospel the word of atypical members of certain races, huh?
     
    We could play that "funny" game. Or we could actually, I don't know, discuss the science behind my comment.
    , @Truth
    Oh I don't know, Brutusale, even the white guys here who run the site admit that Twinkie and his ilk are superior intellects; I guess it's only logical.

    I don't have the IQ to go along with what is obviously true because I don't "understand" it. You should though.
  76. @Brutusale
    Funny how commenters take as Gospel the word of atypical members of certain races, huh?

    Funny how commenters take as Gospel the word of atypical members of certain races, huh?

    We could play that “funny” game. Or we could actually, I don’t know, discuss the science behind my comment.

  77. @Twinkie

    Twinkie seems like a nice young man; but why do you take his comments as gospel, again?
     
    1. I am not as young as I'd like. Let's just say that I am well beyond my physical peak, and no one would call me a "young man" in person (though I look about 10 years younger than my age due to good genes and clean living).

    2. Rushton: http://www.toqonline.com/archives/v2n1/TOQv2n1Rushton.pdf

    So the next question is, “Why do East Asians and Whites have wider hips than Blacks, and so make poorer runners?” The answer is that they give birth to larger-brained babies. During evolution, as the head size of newborns increased, women had to have a wider pelvis. Orientals average 1 cubic inch more cranial capacity than Whites, and Whites average a very large 5 cubic inches more cranial capacity than Blacks.
     

    (though I look about 10 years younger than my age due to good genes and clean living).

    Never saw that one coming!

    Anyway, a few interesting points on this article:

    From what I remember from my jr. high science courses, a scientific rule cannot have an exception, because one exception can invalidate a rule. On page 2 he has a whole chart in which he attempts to prove that there is an Asian-White-Black continuum to everything, Asians at one end, whites in the middle, blacks at the other, now, he rates the three “races” for “cultural achievements”, and puts Asians: Higher, Whites: Higher, Blacks: Lower. Is this a cop-out, or does he really consider Asian cultural achievement to be equal with that of whites?

    On the next page the author writes, of African college students

    In a second study, we administered the same test to another group of psychology students
    who scored an IQ of 83. After training on how to solve these types of tests, their
    IQs rose to 96.

    Whoa! wait a minute. A 13 point IQ gain after a few hours of “test-prep?” I thought this was not possible!

    Finally, there is nothing in this study that indicates that Asians have a higher hip-waist ratio than blacks. Unless I missed something.

    This article seemed fraught with the author’s silly biases, although I’m sure it was somewhat factual.

    I think the issue with this is that it makes me wonder; in this age of great genetic studies, it seems the planet does not need black people, as they are in inferior race, but, apparently, so are white people.

    I have a question; why not just isolate the desirable light eye and hair genes, and graft them onto Asians, then kill everyone else? Hear me out now, would this not be the best solution for humanity?

    We could also graft the “horniness” gene from black people so that after 80% of the population was gone, the world would quickly replenish itself.

    In this way, Twinkie, guys like yourself would not be suckered, by a pair of blue eyes, into marrying down, and polluting your superior gene pool.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    From what I remember from my jr. high science courses, a scientific rule cannot have an exception, because one exception can invalidate a rule.
     
    Do you mean a scientific law? You clearly missed this part:

    In science, a concept is useful if it groups facts so that general laws and conclusions can be drawn from them. Predictions can be made using the taxonomic category of race because, on average, the Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans are similar to each other and different from White Americans, Germans, and Russians, who are similar to each other and different from Black Americans, Haitians, and sub-Saharan Africans. Predictability is the criterion by which the value of a hypothetical construct like race is evaluated. As I will show, race is highly predictive.
     

    This article seemed fraught with the author’s silly biases, although I’m sure it was somewhat factual.
     
    Rushton, along with Arthur Jensen and Richard Lynn, was a pioneering scientist and a giant (and also a martyr) in the field of what we call human biodiversity and race realism. He dared to adapt the r/K selection theory to human races (and suffered much personal attacks as well as attempts to criminalize him). He was also a frequent attendee at American Renaissance meetings and a close associate of Jared Taylor's.

    You might actually read his writings in depth before talking about "silly biases." Once you have done some basic reading in scientific race realism/HBD, I'd be happy to discuss this further.

    In this way, Twinkie, guys like yourself would not be suckered, by a pair of blue eyes, into marrying down, and polluting your superior gene pool.
     
    Don't go cry and throw a tantrum because whites aren't the best at everything.

    Rushton made it quite clear that he attached no value judgment to his scientific findings (which he left to policymakers). But we certainly can. And just because we find *some* of the categories favorable to East Asians in our estimation, it does NOT mean the point of his study was to rate one race the best and another the worst. Sure, IQ averages seem to indicate a hierarchy favoring Asians, but on, for example, sociability the reverse is the case (blacks the most, whites next, and Asians in the middle). And in another category, risk-taking, blacks may have too much and Asians too little, perhaps making the whites "just right." The point is that, unless you are stupidly simple-minded, you should not see his data sets as rating Asians the best, whites the next, and blacks the worst. That's not what the study is about.

    Furthermore, although Rushton uses the phrase "whites in the middle" or "whites in between" and so on, whites and East Asians are actually clustered quite closely together, which should be very apparent if you took one look at the data. The biggest racial difference in humanity is actually that between sub-Saharan Africans and all the others.
  78. @Brutusale
    Funny how commenters take as Gospel the word of atypical members of certain races, huh?

    Oh I don’t know, Brutusale, even the white guys here who run the site admit that Twinkie and his ilk are superior intellects; I guess it’s only logical.

    I don’t have the IQ to go along with what is obviously true because I don’t “understand” it. You should though.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    even the white guys here who run the site admit that Twinkie and his ilk are superior intellects
     
    "Ilk" again? That's rather interesting that the few people who seem intent on lobbying personal attacks and insults at me use the same limited vocabulary. Do the words come from some sort of an approved sound bite list? ("You must never refer to an Asian as an individual; you must always de-individualize him and refer to him collectively, e.g. 'you and your ilk.'")

    Look, it's all fine and dandy to talk about groups when we are discussing group similarities and differences (and science and policies that relate to them), but could we please refrain from "you people" type of characterization in what is, even on the internet, a conversation between individuals? Why not stick to the facts and hypotheses at hand?

    By the way, I am not sure that Mr. Sailer thinks East Asians have intellects that are superior to all the other ethno-racial groups. I am pretty sure that scientific data show Ashkenazi Jews to have higher average overall IQ scores (something like 103-106 for East Asians and 110 or so for the Ashkenazim). But, of course, they have different specializations (East Asians with higher visuo-spatial IQ and the Ashkenajim with higher verbal IQ).
  79. @Truth

    (though I look about 10 years younger than my age due to good genes and clean living).

     

    Never saw that one coming!

    Anyway, a few interesting points on this article:

    From what I remember from my jr. high science courses, a scientific rule cannot have an exception, because one exception can invalidate a rule. On page 2 he has a whole chart in which he attempts to prove that there is an Asian-White-Black continuum to everything, Asians at one end, whites in the middle, blacks at the other, now, he rates the three "races" for "cultural achievements", and puts Asians: Higher, Whites: Higher, Blacks: Lower. Is this a cop-out, or does he really consider Asian cultural achievement to be equal with that of whites?

    On the next page the author writes, of African college students


    In a second study, we administered the same test to another group of psychology students
    who scored an IQ of 83. After training on how to solve these types of tests, their
    IQs rose to 96.
     
    Whoa! wait a minute. A 13 point IQ gain after a few hours of "test-prep?" I thought this was not possible!

    Finally, there is nothing in this study that indicates that Asians have a higher hip-waist ratio than blacks. Unless I missed something.

    This article seemed fraught with the author's silly biases, although I'm sure it was somewhat factual.

    I think the issue with this is that it makes me wonder; in this age of great genetic studies, it seems the planet does not need black people, as they are in inferior race, but, apparently, so are white people.

    I have a question; why not just isolate the desirable light eye and hair genes, and graft them onto Asians, then kill everyone else? Hear me out now, would this not be the best solution for humanity?

    We could also graft the "horniness" gene from black people so that after 80% of the population was gone, the world would quickly replenish itself.

    In this way, Twinkie, guys like yourself would not be suckered, by a pair of blue eyes, into marrying down, and polluting your superior gene pool.

    From what I remember from my jr. high science courses, a scientific rule cannot have an exception, because one exception can invalidate a rule.

    Do you mean a scientific law? You clearly missed this part:

    In science, a concept is useful if it groups facts so that general laws and conclusions can be drawn from them. Predictions can be made using the taxonomic category of race because, on average, the Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans are similar to each other and different from White Americans, Germans, and Russians, who are similar to each other and different from Black Americans, Haitians, and sub-Saharan Africans. Predictability is the criterion by which the value of a hypothetical construct like race is evaluated. As I will show, race is highly predictive.

    This article seemed fraught with the author’s silly biases, although I’m sure it was somewhat factual.

    Rushton, along with Arthur Jensen and Richard Lynn, was a pioneering scientist and a giant (and also a martyr) in the field of what we call human biodiversity and race realism. He dared to adapt the r/K selection theory to human races (and suffered much personal attacks as well as attempts to criminalize him). He was also a frequent attendee at American Renaissance meetings and a close associate of Jared Taylor’s.

    You might actually read his writings in depth before talking about “silly biases.” Once you have done some basic reading in scientific race realism/HBD, I’d be happy to discuss this further.

    In this way, Twinkie, guys like yourself would not be suckered, by a pair of blue eyes, into marrying down, and polluting your superior gene pool.

    Don’t go cry and throw a tantrum because whites aren’t the best at everything.

    Rushton made it quite clear that he attached no value judgment to his scientific findings (which he left to policymakers). But we certainly can. And just because we find *some* of the categories favorable to East Asians in our estimation, it does NOT mean the point of his study was to rate one race the best and another the worst. Sure, IQ averages seem to indicate a hierarchy favoring Asians, but on, for example, sociability the reverse is the case (blacks the most, whites next, and Asians in the middle). And in another category, risk-taking, blacks may have too much and Asians too little, perhaps making the whites “just right.” The point is that, unless you are stupidly simple-minded, you should not see his data sets as rating Asians the best, whites the next, and blacks the worst. That’s not what the study is about.

    Furthermore, although Rushton uses the phrase “whites in the middle” or “whites in between” and so on, whites and East Asians are actually clustered quite closely together, which should be very apparent if you took one look at the data. The biggest racial difference in humanity is actually that between sub-Saharan Africans and all the others.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    sociability the reverse is the case (blacks the most, whites next, and Asians in the middle).
     
    Sorry, I meant "blacks the most, whites next, and Asians the least." I regret the error.
    , @Truth



    Don’t go cry and throw a tantrum because whites aren’t the best at everything.
     
    LOL, why would I "cry and throw a tantrum"? I'm black.

    And per your own link, I don't think you understand; Mr. Rushton feels that whites aren't the best at ANYTHING.

    From what I read in the article, whites are "the middle way" (pun intended), in EVERY category of humanity; I.e, what Asians are good at, they are better than blacks and whites, and at what blacks are good at, they are better than blacks and Asians.

    Did I misread something?


    Furthermore, although Rushton uses the phrase “whites in the middle” or “whites in between” and so on, whites and East Asians are actually clustered quite closely together, which should be very apparent if you took one look at the data. The biggest racial difference in humanity is actually that between sub-Saharan Africans and all the others.
     
    OK, so let me see if I have this straight, on what matters, Asians are, let's say, a 10; whites are, let's say, an 8, and blacks are, let's say, a negative 75.

    Yes, I get that, now answer me a question:

    In the world of smart Asians, is 10 higher than 8? Because it is in mine.
  80. @Truth
    Oh I don't know, Brutusale, even the white guys here who run the site admit that Twinkie and his ilk are superior intellects; I guess it's only logical.

    I don't have the IQ to go along with what is obviously true because I don't "understand" it. You should though.

    even the white guys here who run the site admit that Twinkie and his ilk are superior intellects

    “Ilk” again? That’s rather interesting that the few people who seem intent on lobbying personal attacks and insults at me use the same limited vocabulary. Do the words come from some sort of an approved sound bite list? (“You must never refer to an Asian as an individual; you must always de-individualize him and refer to him collectively, e.g. ‘you and your ilk.’”)

    Look, it’s all fine and dandy to talk about groups when we are discussing group similarities and differences (and science and policies that relate to them), but could we please refrain from “you people” type of characterization in what is, even on the internet, a conversation between individuals? Why not stick to the facts and hypotheses at hand?

    By the way, I am not sure that Mr. Sailer thinks East Asians have intellects that are superior to all the other ethno-racial groups. I am pretty sure that scientific data show Ashkenazi Jews to have higher average overall IQ scores (something like 103-106 for East Asians and 110 or so for the Ashkenazim). But, of course, they have different specializations (East Asians with higher visuo-spatial IQ and the Ashkenajim with higher verbal IQ).

    • Replies: @Truth

    “Ilk” again? That’s rather interesting that the few people who seem intent on lobbying personal attacks and insults at me use the same limited vocabulary.
     
    I thought that "ilk" was standard English vocabulary? And where did I "lobby a personal attack"?

    My friend, at the risk of overstepping my authority, you seem just a bit - oversensitive. I'm starting to feel that your bragging and self-aggrandizement may be more along the African line of "compensation", than the European one of "earned confidence."

    ilk1
    [ilk]


    noun
    1.
    family, class, or kind:
    he and all his ilk.
    adjective
    2.
    same.
    Idioms
    3.
    of that ilk,

    (in Scotland) of the same family name or place:
    Ross of that ilk,i.e., Ross of Ross.
    of the same class or kind.


    Look, it’s all fine and dandy to talk about groups when we are discussing group similarities and differences (and science and policies that relate to them), but could we please refrain from “you people” type of characterization in what is, even on the internet, a conversation between individuals? Why not stick to the facts and hypotheses at hand?
     
    Again my friend, that's all well and good; if we are on a personal blog in which someone puts pictures of his family picnic up. This is an HBD blog, and the people it tends to draw are angry, maladjusted pricks...myself included.

    So to coin one of your favorite phrases at the, well, most inopportune time,

    Twinkie;

    Don' hate tha playa; hate tha game!
  81. @Twinkie

    From what I remember from my jr. high science courses, a scientific rule cannot have an exception, because one exception can invalidate a rule.
     
    Do you mean a scientific law? You clearly missed this part:

    In science, a concept is useful if it groups facts so that general laws and conclusions can be drawn from them. Predictions can be made using the taxonomic category of race because, on average, the Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans are similar to each other and different from White Americans, Germans, and Russians, who are similar to each other and different from Black Americans, Haitians, and sub-Saharan Africans. Predictability is the criterion by which the value of a hypothetical construct like race is evaluated. As I will show, race is highly predictive.
     

    This article seemed fraught with the author’s silly biases, although I’m sure it was somewhat factual.
     
    Rushton, along with Arthur Jensen and Richard Lynn, was a pioneering scientist and a giant (and also a martyr) in the field of what we call human biodiversity and race realism. He dared to adapt the r/K selection theory to human races (and suffered much personal attacks as well as attempts to criminalize him). He was also a frequent attendee at American Renaissance meetings and a close associate of Jared Taylor's.

    You might actually read his writings in depth before talking about "silly biases." Once you have done some basic reading in scientific race realism/HBD, I'd be happy to discuss this further.

    In this way, Twinkie, guys like yourself would not be suckered, by a pair of blue eyes, into marrying down, and polluting your superior gene pool.
     
    Don't go cry and throw a tantrum because whites aren't the best at everything.

    Rushton made it quite clear that he attached no value judgment to his scientific findings (which he left to policymakers). But we certainly can. And just because we find *some* of the categories favorable to East Asians in our estimation, it does NOT mean the point of his study was to rate one race the best and another the worst. Sure, IQ averages seem to indicate a hierarchy favoring Asians, but on, for example, sociability the reverse is the case (blacks the most, whites next, and Asians in the middle). And in another category, risk-taking, blacks may have too much and Asians too little, perhaps making the whites "just right." The point is that, unless you are stupidly simple-minded, you should not see his data sets as rating Asians the best, whites the next, and blacks the worst. That's not what the study is about.

    Furthermore, although Rushton uses the phrase "whites in the middle" or "whites in between" and so on, whites and East Asians are actually clustered quite closely together, which should be very apparent if you took one look at the data. The biggest racial difference in humanity is actually that between sub-Saharan Africans and all the others.

    sociability the reverse is the case (blacks the most, whites next, and Asians in the middle).

    Sorry, I meant “blacks the most, whites next, and Asians the least.” I regret the error.

    • Replies: @Truth



    Sorry, I meant “blacks the most, whites next, and Asians the least.” I regret the error.
     
    I belive that error was Freudian, BabyBoy.

    Not that that's a bad thing.
  82. @Twinkie

    From what I remember from my jr. high science courses, a scientific rule cannot have an exception, because one exception can invalidate a rule.
     
    Do you mean a scientific law? You clearly missed this part:

    In science, a concept is useful if it groups facts so that general laws and conclusions can be drawn from them. Predictions can be made using the taxonomic category of race because, on average, the Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans are similar to each other and different from White Americans, Germans, and Russians, who are similar to each other and different from Black Americans, Haitians, and sub-Saharan Africans. Predictability is the criterion by which the value of a hypothetical construct like race is evaluated. As I will show, race is highly predictive.
     

    This article seemed fraught with the author’s silly biases, although I’m sure it was somewhat factual.
     
    Rushton, along with Arthur Jensen and Richard Lynn, was a pioneering scientist and a giant (and also a martyr) in the field of what we call human biodiversity and race realism. He dared to adapt the r/K selection theory to human races (and suffered much personal attacks as well as attempts to criminalize him). He was also a frequent attendee at American Renaissance meetings and a close associate of Jared Taylor's.

    You might actually read his writings in depth before talking about "silly biases." Once you have done some basic reading in scientific race realism/HBD, I'd be happy to discuss this further.

    In this way, Twinkie, guys like yourself would not be suckered, by a pair of blue eyes, into marrying down, and polluting your superior gene pool.
     
    Don't go cry and throw a tantrum because whites aren't the best at everything.

    Rushton made it quite clear that he attached no value judgment to his scientific findings (which he left to policymakers). But we certainly can. And just because we find *some* of the categories favorable to East Asians in our estimation, it does NOT mean the point of his study was to rate one race the best and another the worst. Sure, IQ averages seem to indicate a hierarchy favoring Asians, but on, for example, sociability the reverse is the case (blacks the most, whites next, and Asians in the middle). And in another category, risk-taking, blacks may have too much and Asians too little, perhaps making the whites "just right." The point is that, unless you are stupidly simple-minded, you should not see his data sets as rating Asians the best, whites the next, and blacks the worst. That's not what the study is about.

    Furthermore, although Rushton uses the phrase "whites in the middle" or "whites in between" and so on, whites and East Asians are actually clustered quite closely together, which should be very apparent if you took one look at the data. The biggest racial difference in humanity is actually that between sub-Saharan Africans and all the others.

    Don’t go cry and throw a tantrum because whites aren’t the best at everything.

    LOL, why would I “cry and throw a tantrum”? I’m black.

    And per your own link, I don’t think you understand; Mr. Rushton feels that whites aren’t the best at ANYTHING.

    From what I read in the article, whites are “the middle way” (pun intended), in EVERY category of humanity; I.e, what Asians are good at, they are better than blacks and whites, and at what blacks are good at, they are better than blacks and Asians.

    Did I misread something?

    Furthermore, although Rushton uses the phrase “whites in the middle” or “whites in between” and so on, whites and East Asians are actually clustered quite closely together, which should be very apparent if you took one look at the data. The biggest racial difference in humanity is actually that between sub-Saharan Africans and all the others.

    OK, so let me see if I have this straight, on what matters, Asians are, let’s say, a 10; whites are, let’s say, an 8, and blacks are, let’s say, a negative 75.

    Yes, I get that, now answer me a question:

    In the world of smart Asians, is 10 higher than 8? Because it is in mine.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Did I misread something?
     
    Yes.
  83. @Twinkie

    even the white guys here who run the site admit that Twinkie and his ilk are superior intellects
     
    "Ilk" again? That's rather interesting that the few people who seem intent on lobbying personal attacks and insults at me use the same limited vocabulary. Do the words come from some sort of an approved sound bite list? ("You must never refer to an Asian as an individual; you must always de-individualize him and refer to him collectively, e.g. 'you and your ilk.'")

    Look, it's all fine and dandy to talk about groups when we are discussing group similarities and differences (and science and policies that relate to them), but could we please refrain from "you people" type of characterization in what is, even on the internet, a conversation between individuals? Why not stick to the facts and hypotheses at hand?

    By the way, I am not sure that Mr. Sailer thinks East Asians have intellects that are superior to all the other ethno-racial groups. I am pretty sure that scientific data show Ashkenazi Jews to have higher average overall IQ scores (something like 103-106 for East Asians and 110 or so for the Ashkenazim). But, of course, they have different specializations (East Asians with higher visuo-spatial IQ and the Ashkenajim with higher verbal IQ).

    “Ilk” again? That’s rather interesting that the few people who seem intent on lobbying personal attacks and insults at me use the same limited vocabulary.

    I thought that “ilk” was standard English vocabulary? And where did I “lobby a personal attack”?

    My friend, at the risk of overstepping my authority, you seem just a bit – oversensitive. I’m starting to feel that your bragging and self-aggrandizement may be more along the African line of “compensation”, than the European one of “earned confidence.”

    ilk1
    [ilk]

    noun
    1.
    family, class, or kind:
    he and all his ilk.
    adjective
    2.
    same.
    Idioms
    3.
    of that ilk,

    (in Scotland) of the same family name or place:
    Ross of that ilk,i.e., Ross of Ross.
    of the same class or kind.

    Look, it’s all fine and dandy to talk about groups when we are discussing group similarities and differences (and science and policies that relate to them), but could we please refrain from “you people” type of characterization in what is, even on the internet, a conversation between individuals? Why not stick to the facts and hypotheses at hand?

    Again my friend, that’s all well and good; if we are on a personal blog in which someone puts pictures of his family picnic up. This is an HBD blog, and the people it tends to draw are angry, maladjusted pricks…myself included.

    So to coin one of your favorite phrases at the, well, most inopportune time,

    Twinkie;

    Don’ hate tha playa; hate tha game!

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    My friend, at the risk of overstepping my authority, you seem just a bit – oversensitive
     
    1. Alas, we are not friends. But that doesn't mean we can't have a civil conversation.

    2. I am not oversensitive. I just get tired with the "you people" (or "you and your ilk") type of argument, which is not an argument at all.

    3. I think you should leave psychology to professionals.

    This is an HBD blog, and the people it tends to draw are angry, maladjusted pricks…myself included.
     
    While you are, of course, free to identify yourself as a "prick," perhaps you should let others speak for themselves.

    Don’ hate tha playa; hate tha game!
     
    While I am given to bouts of arrogance, I am almost always very civil and I give arguments of others the benefit of doubt, provided they are made in earnest. I am not interested in a game of who is the bigger jackass.

    So I suggest you read some science behind the HBD and bid you adieu until then.
  84. @Twinkie

    sociability the reverse is the case (blacks the most, whites next, and Asians in the middle).
     
    Sorry, I meant "blacks the most, whites next, and Asians the least." I regret the error.

    Sorry, I meant “blacks the most, whites next, and Asians the least.” I regret the error.

    I belive that error was Freudian, BabyBoy.

    Not that that’s a bad thing.

  85. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    LOL, why would I “cry and throw a tantrum”? I’m black.

    And per your own link, I don’t think you understand; Mr. Rushton feels that whites aren’t the best at ANYTHING.

    From what I read in the article, whites are “the middle way” (pun intended), in EVERY category of humanity; I.e, what Asians are good at, they are better than blacks and whites, and at what blacks are good at, they are better than blacks and Asians.

    Did I misread something?

    Yes. Whites are better at EVERYTHING. As in, good all-rounders.

    But, on a different tack, an illustration (i.e., numbers for purposes of argument only):

    Black:
    Mind: 70
    Body: 100
    Average: 85

    White:
    Mind: 95
    Body: 95
    Average: 95

    Yellow:
    Mind: 100
    Body: 70
    Average: 85

    But really, the problem with your argument is that Rushton doesn’t deal with EVERYTHING, just a series of simple things that are easy to quantify. Whites excel blacks and yellows at society-building, innovation, soldiering, and exploring, to name a few. Murray’s Human Accomplishment would not seem to put whites in the middle, except maybe in the Goldilocks sense.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Your hypothetical numbers have no bearing whatsoever on Rushton's data. They are a simple-minded made-up numbers that have nothing to do with reality.

    Rushton's data show that in most traits he tested, whites and "Orientals" clustered together rather closely, with blacks farther apart. That is not a surprise given that Europeans and East Asians split genetically in a more recent time in history.

    Rushton doesn’t deal with EVERYTHING, just a series of simple things that are easy to quantify.
     
    Yes.

    Whites excel blacks and yellows at society-building, innovation, soldiering, and exploring, to name a few.
     
    No.

    Setting blacks aside for the moment, various inhabitants of Eurasia have vied for civilizational, military, economic, and cultural supremacy for a few thousand years now. No one regional group has been dominant the entire time. Western European (and by extension American) dominance is a relatively recent phenomenon, extant since the 17th Century (which several scholars have called "The Rise of the West," and which is closely tied to the so-called Revolution in Military Affairs).

    Judging from the ebbs and flows of the Eurasian history, it is not genetically foreordained that this dominance of the past 500 years or so will continue forever.
  86. Unsigned comment above is mine.

    As for legalisms, let’s just say I don’t think Rushton’s rule as you have put it forward is sound. I think a rule based on it (or, the rule as I’ve always heard Rushton put it forward, and never as you have) works pretty well, though.

  87. @Truth



    Don’t go cry and throw a tantrum because whites aren’t the best at everything.
     
    LOL, why would I "cry and throw a tantrum"? I'm black.

    And per your own link, I don't think you understand; Mr. Rushton feels that whites aren't the best at ANYTHING.

    From what I read in the article, whites are "the middle way" (pun intended), in EVERY category of humanity; I.e, what Asians are good at, they are better than blacks and whites, and at what blacks are good at, they are better than blacks and Asians.

    Did I misread something?


    Furthermore, although Rushton uses the phrase “whites in the middle” or “whites in between” and so on, whites and East Asians are actually clustered quite closely together, which should be very apparent if you took one look at the data. The biggest racial difference in humanity is actually that between sub-Saharan Africans and all the others.
     
    OK, so let me see if I have this straight, on what matters, Asians are, let's say, a 10; whites are, let's say, an 8, and blacks are, let's say, a negative 75.

    Yes, I get that, now answer me a question:

    In the world of smart Asians, is 10 higher than 8? Because it is in mine.

    Did I misread something?

    Yes.

  88. @Truth

    “Ilk” again? That’s rather interesting that the few people who seem intent on lobbying personal attacks and insults at me use the same limited vocabulary.
     
    I thought that "ilk" was standard English vocabulary? And where did I "lobby a personal attack"?

    My friend, at the risk of overstepping my authority, you seem just a bit - oversensitive. I'm starting to feel that your bragging and self-aggrandizement may be more along the African line of "compensation", than the European one of "earned confidence."

    ilk1
    [ilk]


    noun
    1.
    family, class, or kind:
    he and all his ilk.
    adjective
    2.
    same.
    Idioms
    3.
    of that ilk,

    (in Scotland) of the same family name or place:
    Ross of that ilk,i.e., Ross of Ross.
    of the same class or kind.


    Look, it’s all fine and dandy to talk about groups when we are discussing group similarities and differences (and science and policies that relate to them), but could we please refrain from “you people” type of characterization in what is, even on the internet, a conversation between individuals? Why not stick to the facts and hypotheses at hand?
     
    Again my friend, that's all well and good; if we are on a personal blog in which someone puts pictures of his family picnic up. This is an HBD blog, and the people it tends to draw are angry, maladjusted pricks...myself included.

    So to coin one of your favorite phrases at the, well, most inopportune time,

    Twinkie;

    Don' hate tha playa; hate tha game!

    My friend, at the risk of overstepping my authority, you seem just a bit – oversensitive

    1. Alas, we are not friends. But that doesn’t mean we can’t have a civil conversation.

    2. I am not oversensitive. I just get tired with the “you people” (or “you and your ilk”) type of argument, which is not an argument at all.

    3. I think you should leave psychology to professionals.

    This is an HBD blog, and the people it tends to draw are angry, maladjusted pricks…myself included.

    While you are, of course, free to identify yourself as a “prick,” perhaps you should let others speak for themselves.

    Don’ hate tha playa; hate tha game!

    While I am given to bouts of arrogance, I am almost always very civil and I give arguments of others the benefit of doubt, provided they are made in earnest. I am not interested in a game of who is the bigger jackass.

    So I suggest you read some science behind the HBD and bid you adieu until then.

    • Replies: @Truth
    "While you are, of course, free to identify yourself as a “prick,” perhaps you should let others speak for themselves."

    Oh but they do, daily, with their posts!

    What you are screams so loudly in my ears, I cannot hear what you say.
    -Ralph Waldo Emmerson
  89. @Anonymous

    LOL, why would I “cry and throw a tantrum”? I’m black.

    And per your own link, I don’t think you understand; Mr. Rushton feels that whites aren’t the best at ANYTHING.

    From what I read in the article, whites are “the middle way” (pun intended), in EVERY category of humanity; I.e, what Asians are good at, they are better than blacks and whites, and at what blacks are good at, they are better than blacks and Asians.

    Did I misread something?
     
    Yes. Whites are better at EVERYTHING. As in, good all-rounders.

    But, on a different tack, an illustration (i.e., numbers for purposes of argument only):

    Black:
    Mind: 70
    Body: 100
    Average: 85

    White:
    Mind: 95
    Body: 95
    Average: 95

    Yellow:
    Mind: 100
    Body: 70
    Average: 85

    But really, the problem with your argument is that Rushton doesn't deal with EVERYTHING, just a series of simple things that are easy to quantify. Whites excel blacks and yellows at society-building, innovation, soldiering, and exploring, to name a few. Murray's Human Accomplishment would not seem to put whites in the middle, except maybe in the Goldilocks sense.

    Your hypothetical numbers have no bearing whatsoever on Rushton’s data. They are a simple-minded made-up numbers that have nothing to do with reality.

    Rushton’s data show that in most traits he tested, whites and “Orientals” clustered together rather closely, with blacks farther apart. That is not a surprise given that Europeans and East Asians split genetically in a more recent time in history.

    Rushton doesn’t deal with EVERYTHING, just a series of simple things that are easy to quantify.

    Yes.

    Whites excel blacks and yellows at society-building, innovation, soldiering, and exploring, to name a few.

    No.

    Setting blacks aside for the moment, various inhabitants of Eurasia have vied for civilizational, military, economic, and cultural supremacy for a few thousand years now. No one regional group has been dominant the entire time. Western European (and by extension American) dominance is a relatively recent phenomenon, extant since the 17th Century (which several scholars have called “The Rise of the West,” and which is closely tied to the so-called Revolution in Military Affairs).

    Judging from the ebbs and flows of the Eurasian history, it is not genetically foreordained that this dominance of the past 500 years or so will continue forever.

  90. @Twinkie

    My friend, at the risk of overstepping my authority, you seem just a bit – oversensitive
     
    1. Alas, we are not friends. But that doesn't mean we can't have a civil conversation.

    2. I am not oversensitive. I just get tired with the "you people" (or "you and your ilk") type of argument, which is not an argument at all.

    3. I think you should leave psychology to professionals.

    This is an HBD blog, and the people it tends to draw are angry, maladjusted pricks…myself included.
     
    While you are, of course, free to identify yourself as a "prick," perhaps you should let others speak for themselves.

    Don’ hate tha playa; hate tha game!
     
    While I am given to bouts of arrogance, I am almost always very civil and I give arguments of others the benefit of doubt, provided they are made in earnest. I am not interested in a game of who is the bigger jackass.

    So I suggest you read some science behind the HBD and bid you adieu until then.

    “While you are, of course, free to identify yourself as a “prick,” perhaps you should let others speak for themselves.”

    Oh but they do, daily, with their posts!

    What you are screams so loudly in my ears, I cannot hear what you say.
    -Ralph Waldo Emmerson

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Try reading more, less being a prick. Then we'll talk.
  91. Why do nerds always go for these homely chinks? I guess all the nice looking women are spoken for by alpha white guys.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Why do nerds always go for these homely chinks? I guess all the nice looking women are spoken for by alpha white guys.
     
    Very classy.

    You know what? Quelle horreur, there are nice looking, smart, athletic, and virtuous white women who marry "chink" men!

    But losers are losers, regardless of race.
  92. @Udolpho
    Why do nerds always go for these homely chinks? I guess all the nice looking women are spoken for by alpha white guys.

    Why do nerds always go for these homely chinks? I guess all the nice looking women are spoken for by alpha white guys.

    Very classy.

    You know what? Quelle horreur, there are nice looking, smart, athletic, and virtuous white women who marry “chink” men!

    But losers are losers, regardless of race.

  93. @Truth
    "While you are, of course, free to identify yourself as a “prick,” perhaps you should let others speak for themselves."

    Oh but they do, daily, with their posts!

    What you are screams so loudly in my ears, I cannot hear what you say.
    -Ralph Waldo Emmerson

    Try reading more, less being a prick. Then we’ll talk.

  94. @Steve Sailer
    All three? Is that a record? The highest number I've seen before is 3 of Thomas Mann's 6 children.

    4 out of 5 Wittgenstein brothers were gay. 3 of them killed themselves because of that. And we all know about Ludwig.

    The only non-gay Wittgenstein was the pianist who lost an arm. He did have a son but apparently that boy was an invalid for all his life so there are no more Wittgensteins.

  95. @rustbeltreader
    Firsts! "One night during the early 1700s, a constable working for the British colony of New York arrested what he presumed was a prostitute walking along Broadway. When the suspect was brought back to the stockade, however, it was discovered that he had actually taken into custody the colonial governor, who enjoyed taking evening strolls in his wife's clothes … In addition to women's clothing, which he enjoyed wearing while walking the parapets of the British fort he commanded, [Lord Cornbury] also had a fetish for ears, and made it a point of telling visitors to official state functions that they were free to fondle those of his wife …" http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2337/did-new-york-once-have-a-transvestite-governor

    President Obama can send Joe to fondle their ears. He can dress like Rudia and promote Love for England. We can ban encryption in Silicon Valley and get silicon breasts and bitch about leaks. Then... place the fish and chips onto the greaseproof paper and then into a sheet of newspaper. All you need now is a pickled onion, salt and MALT VINEGAR! TIPS ... Take one fillet of fish at a time and holding it by the tail or thin end (!) swirl it around the batter until well ... http://www.food.com/recipe/real-english-fish-and-chips-with-yorkshire-beer-batter-183399
    Now we're cooking with beer!

    Thanks, I’ll post.

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