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Should Trump Do a Government Shutdown Over the Wall?
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Should Trump do a government shutdown over The Wall? Why do one now rather than before the election? How often do government shutdowns work as a political tactic?

 
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  1. Related: He really did seem off his game with Chuck and Nancy. It was weird – unlike him.

  2. Tyrion 2 says:

    Not just the wall, but every single item on the fix immigration wishlist all at once. If Congress doesn’t budge he should start talking about some sort of referendum. This is a one time shot so best to not miss anything.

  3. If Trump goes whole hog and shuts down the federal government, Mexican border-jumpers will be terrified . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . NOT.

    • Replies: @rufus
  4. Sunbeam says:

    Kind of moved past this site.

    The responses you are going to get are pretty predictable.

    But Trump wouldn’t have made this threat if it hadn’t been gamed out seven ways from Sunday.

    Let me ask the readers of this thread. Think back. When exactly has Trump been seriously threatened by anything since he took office? They haven’t even made contact with any of those punches, despite a full-bore media offensive unprecedented in American history.

    Not that Trump is the Ubermensch or something. There is a very capable team behind him.

    I doubt many people here will see it the same way, but give me some evidence that the Trump administration has ever been in danger?

    You guys see chaos (what you are supposed to see). What they are actually doing is systematically rolling out something. Why you might actually call it the “plan.”

  5. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Sunbeam

    Shutdown until the full wishlist of immigration fixing policies are in place or until Congress agrees to force state legislatures to hold a nationally synchronised referendum or GTFO.

  6. Drumpf will cuck. And whites will be replaced. Good riddance!

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
  7. @Sunbeam

    In danger of what? Getting removed from office by the senate, like no president in history ever has been? Not much danger there. In danger of not implementing a single policy that any generic republican president wouldn’t also have put in place and completely betraying his signature campaign promise? Lots of danger there.

    You may be right that Trump is essentially doing just what he wants and he’s just one in a long line of republican bull shit artists pulling one over on his rube voters. But Trump hasn’t been a good president.

    • Disagree: Mr. Rational
  8. Government shutdowns work well for me.

    Permanent Feral Gov’t Shutdown!

  9. Clyde says:

    Once Pelosi gets top be Speaker getting Wall funding will be impossible. During the present Congress Trump has to get a Defense Department appropriation through that will allow him to pay for the Wall via Military appropriations. Say 5-7 billions in Wall Funding. Do you know who used to defend the US Mexico border? The US Army did in the days before we had a Border Patrol. We had many Army installations along that border to keep out the Pancho Villas.

    I am saying the only way The Wall gets built is via our Military building it…of course w many civilian contractors.

  10. Trump is loud and breaks things. Maybe this works in business but the political classes are on tenterhooks to see if the strategy will work for them too. This doesn’t apply to Bill Clinton as much because he didn’t have a business career and was more cautious politically than personally. Although hesitance at the wrong moment (the Wall) might bring about the downfall of a man who has been successfully reckless all his life. So I’d say a government shutdown would play to Trump’s strengths.

  11. midtown says:

    There is already a law in place requiring the building of a physical barrier. This would simply be fulfilling the law, much like moving the embassy to Jerusalem was a $100 bill laying on the sidewalk. So, yes. By the way, I think negotiations should be televised more often. Pelosi in particular looked SO uncomfortable to have to defend a position.

  12. What does he have to lose? Federal employees are predominantly Democratic voters, the military won’t get shut down (as a bonus the military might start to build the wall anyway), so it might not be very bad with his voters. I think presidents tended to win all shutdown debates.

    It’s probably worth a try.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  13. Whiskey says: • Website

    Duh Trump wants to fight Pelosi not Ryan over the Wall. He will lose if course 85% of White women want open borders.

    • LOL: Rosie
  14. Optically and on a political level it’s worth a try. But the Dems will try to put rhetorical pressure on him with the media’s assistance, through the usual nice white lady channels…..and he can’t capitulate to that this time like he did with the border detentions.

  15. Trump getting more and more stupid. Very disconcerting. Wall never made much sense in that total immigration and birth right citizenship allows in way more foreigners than a wall would stop. And being that the republican house did not give us a wall, why demand democrats do so now?

    Trump getting no support from republican policy makers and public thinkers. Where are ideas on how to structure a working health care system? How do they not have a plan on balancing the budget? And where are proposed laws that guarantee a persons right to express their opinions in public without being harassed, goaded into a physical confrontation that lands you in jail, or fired from your job?

  16. clyde says:

    So much that the invasion by Mexican is justified because the SW used to be part of Mexico. The USA is not built on any Central American land that was taken in war. But of course the new justification is the Americans aka evil white men were colonizers of Central America. Therefore any indigenous Central American has a legal right to live in America.

    In caravan photos they look half Indian, ranging up to full Indians speaking Mayan dialects.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
  17. Hockamaw says:

    I’m just about as orthodox a Trumper as you will find, and even I have been feeling this generalized malaise with his ineffectual antics lately. If I’m feeling like this, I have to believe that everyone is feeling it to one degree or another. The guy is finished.

  18. clyde says:

    But of course that’s utterly fraudulent. Hard facts have emerged which confirm what our eyes tell us. A new survey from Gallup tells us that 32% of North Africans (i.e. from countries bordering the Med) would ‘like to move to another country’. That’s approximately 70 million people. Add in chain migration and it comes to about 300 million. Now consider the rest of Africa. Research by Oxford University showed that fully three quarters of Senegal would emigrate to Europe if they had the opportunity. Now understand that by the – admittedly abysmal – standards of the region Senegal is a beacon of wealth, peace and stability. Can you imagine then the ratio of would-be migrants from the rest of that benighted region? Africa’s population is already 1.2 billion and growing so we could expect at least 500 million of those wondrous doctors, engineers and scientists to appear among us should free access be allowed.

    Yet were you to cite such figures to SJWs you’ll get abused as a racist and a hater. And that’s what I dislike about them. They know the inevitable catastrophic result of their demands yet they refuse to acknowledge them, instead preening and virtue-signalling on the high moral ground. Disgusting people.

    From the Irish savant blog

    • Replies: @Anonym
  19. Bugg says:

    His biggest campaign promise was The Wall. Without following through on that, he’s done, 2 ways. His voters will abandon him as another politician making promises and not keeping them. But worse, a bunch of red states like Texas and Florida will got forever blue in very short order.

  20. @larry lurker

    Au Contraire! Mr. Trump was being transparent as witness his daily Tweets…the president believes in being up front with us and that is exactly what he was doing in having the Nancy/Chuck/Donnie press conference in the White House with cameras and sound going full steam. The person in the room while the 3 main players talked was Veep Mike Pence. Notice how uncomfortable Mr. Pence was…all ten fingers clenched and him looking down most of the time.

    And the ‘Winna’ is?

  21. ic1000 says:
    @Sunbeam

    I guess I’m the anti-Sunbeam. I don’t see a “Trump Plan” but, sure, perhaps there is one hidden behind all the (seeming) chaos and backstabbing.

    But my conviction has grown that there is no Trump Plan for action on the issue that made him the Republican nominee and pushed him (barely) over the top in the Electoral College — immigration.

    Yes, he’s been hamstrung by the Republican Congress. But as far as I can see, he’s made no meaningful efforts. In numbers, the travel ban was symbolic, and in implementation it was half-a$$ed at best.

    Instead we got the tax code changes — a gift to many 1%ers and not-a-cut for many middle-class families. And the Obamacare repeal flop.

    Now, with Mueller about to report and the Democratic House baying for his blood, he talks Shutdown.

    Whatever.

  22. As I said before, he has to show up in 2020 with a product or he’s toast. He’s also got to find it in him to split the Gordian Knot of district judges applying ORANGE MAN BAD legal theorem to anything he does.

    The jailbreak judicial “reform” bill push that’s going on now really annoyed me. It has UWS virtue signalling all over it, which leads me to believe Javanka is all over it. No one was shouting “LET RAPISTS OUT EARLY” at your rallies, my dude.

    He can say “we’re building the wall” to a very limited extent, as some new stuff has been built. That being said, you can believe that come 2020 journalists are going to “discover” the southwest border is mostly vehicle barrier or barbed wire fence and are gonna blast pictures of it across the media. Then it comes down to “me or your lying eyes” when the wall comes up. Not a good look.

    Trump has to channel his inner Tribune of the Plebs now and start flipping tables in the temple. This warmed over boomer horseshit where % of black votes functions as an arbiter of morality (and what is driving the aforementioned judicial bill, imho) is a meaningless sideshow. Stabenaw got something like 90% of the black vote running against some black guy up in Michigan.

    Believing that inside every colored there’s an Ohio Republican waiting to burst out if only given the right tax cut package cost us dearly in Iraq. Wait until you see what horror it unleashes here.

  23. Hubbub says:

    He promised to build a wall. He has to build a wall to stem the tide of illegal immigrants. No wall, no vote next election. Simple as that.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  24. Bubba says:

    President Trump should shut it down until the swarmy & depraved Schumer apologizes to the good people of Indiana and North Dakota. Can you imagine if a Congressional leader insulted Israel like that? He would have been run out of DC within hours.

  25. Thirdtwin says:

    If it stymies Mueller for a minute, shut it down. Throw him on the heap with the Yellowstone sleigh rides for Jim Acosta to cry over.

  26. Sam says:

    Who knows if this will work and it’s worth the effort. But the truth is that if this was a real priority for him than he should have started with that as his signature move in the first 100 days. He owed nothing to the Republican Ryan wing so no need to follow their lead freely without it costing them anything. He used none of this political capital on his key issues. He’s entirely to blame for his ignorance, lack of planning and lack prioritising.

    In truth I think this is just a way to let his base think he’s fighting for them and that it’s the Democrats and/or the Republicans who’s to blame. Might well work since they seem fairly gullible.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @notanon
  27. Ibound1 says:

    Yes. It’s now or never. He has to put the country on notice – if you want it this is your chance. He must make people make a choice. And this choice should be stark. A country or a bureaucracy.

  28. @larry lurker

    Related: He really did seem off his game with Chuck and Nancy. It was weird – unlike him.

    Trump was on his game. Letting in reporters in on a bitter meeting with “Chuck and Nancy” was a tactic that caught them off guard.

    Pelosi branded it as a “Trump Shutdown” which is smart. I’m sure both sides have thought this battle through several steps.

  29. Corn says:

    What happened to the executive order abolishing jus soli for illegal immigrants’ babies he was touting before the midterms?

    Yeah I want the government shut down until I get my immigration wishlist but c’mon…. I’m not holding my breath.

    I liked Candidate Trump a lot more than President Trump

  30. @ic1000

    I guess I’m the anti-Sunbeam. I don’t see a “Trump Plan” but, sure, perhaps there is one hidden behind all the (seeming) chaos and backstabbing.

    But my conviction has grown that there is no Trump Plan for action on the issue that made him the Republican nominee and pushed him (barely) over the top in the Electoral College — immigration.

    Yes, he’s been hamstrung by the Republican Congress. But as far as I can see, he’s made no meaningful efforts. In numbers, the travel ban was symbolic, and in implementation it was half-a$$ed at best.

    Instead we got the tax code changes — a gift to many 1%ers and not-a-cut for many middle-class families. And the Obamacare repeal flop.

    Trump and Trump’s staff are putting in good effort on immigration. He’s fighting and fighting cleverly.

    The tax changes were great. The health care issue was a complete failure. The right wing academics have fantastic policy ideas but the right-wing political machine failed to build any messaging or rhetoric around that.

  31. Tweet from 2015:

  32. ronhan says:

    What else does he have besides a shut down, unless he just declares a state of emergency and uses the military to build it. Is there any point in negotiating with democrats when there was no point in negotiating with republicans?

  33. Pat Boyle says:
    @Sunbeam

    Shutting down the government was once unthinkable. But now it has become Br’er Rabbit’s brier-patch. Ho-hum they shut down the government again.

    • Replies: @JimB
  34. Anonymous[384] • Disclaimer says:

    http://migration.iom.int/europe?type=arrivals here’s how migration look like in Europe

  35. Mr. Anon says:

    The time to do something would have been in January 2017. He should have gathered to him like-minded Republicans in Congress and told them “I won this election, not Paul Ryan. Enact my agenda. Not his.” He could have appointed better people to his administration than those he did.

    I saw Frank Buckley, who was involved in the transition, on FOX the other night. He said something interesting. That after Chris Christie was put in charge of the transition, it was decided to essentially fire him, but without telling him. They had no intention of acting on the work he was doing. He actually had put together lists of candidates for staffing the administration. They were just tossed when Christie was cashiered, so the transition ended up being a rather rushed, haphazard affair. Of course, Christie’s picks might not have been very good either.

    Trump won’t be able to work with the Democrats, unless it is to enact something that they want. They know that demographics are in thier favor. They can just wait him out. The Trump administration is over.

  36. Mr. Anon says:
    @Sunbeam

    You guys see chaos (what you are supposed to see). What they are actually doing is systematically rolling out something. Why you might actually call it the “plan.”

    Sure. How do Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen fit into “the plan”?

    Now tell us the story about Q-Anon.

    So far, the Trump administration pretty much looks like what you’d expect you’d get by electing a Reality TV star. Hey, it was worth a shot. It’s not as if Jeb or Hillary would have been better.

  37. The anti-sunbeam? I thought Jerry Brown was too busy destroying Mexinchifornia to post here.

    • LOL: ic1000
  38. Mr. Anon says:
    @ic1000

    But my conviction has grown that there is no Trump Plan for action on the issue that made him the Republican nominee and pushed him (barely) over the top in the Electoral College — immigration.

    I believe that Stephen Miller had one (you don’t hear about him anymore), but – you are right – it doesn’t seem like Trump is (or was) serious about implementing it.

    • Replies: @notanon
  39. Tiny Duck says:

    Trump has already lost the shutdown fight.

    The wall is impossible to build, of questionable value and hideously expensive. Immigration is down. Most terrorism is caused by white Christian males.

    Border security depends on people and a court system that is able to handle the influx of people requesting asylum. These things have been part of bipartisan bills several times over the past decade, and each time this compromise has been rejected by conservatives.

    This crisis is entirely of the right’s making

    It is apparent after 20 years, the Republican Party’s role should be as the opposition party. How many times do the Dems have to bail us out from the ridiculous budget antics, wars, tax cuts, etc. before the voters figure out, they are clueless about how to govern.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
  40. Yes, absofreakinglutely.

    Hopefully the ReCucklickans will see how well it will work and have a pair drop like Lindsey Graham’s seems to have.

  41. istevefan says:

    Should have, and should.

    • Agree: Lot
  42. @Sunbeam

    “When exactly has Trump been seriously threatened by anything since he took office?”

    A more pertinent question is when exactly has Trump threatened to fulfill any of his campaign pledges since he took office?

    • Replies: @Autochthon
  43. JimB says:

    Trump is threatening two things if he doesn’t get wall funding: to shut down the government or to use the military to build the wall, in effect reallocating the defense budget to actually defend the US. The Democrats, and squish Republicans, fear only the latter because the military will indeed build an effective wall. The Democrats fear the optics with their activist base about dribbling out 5 billion dollars but low bid contractors will is that away long before building an effective barrier. So my feeling is that Trump needs the wall funding as a political victory but it won’t get him an effective barrier. Only the US Army Cor of Engineers can give him that.

    • Replies: @notanon
  44. nsa says:
    @Sunbeam

    “When exactly has Trump been seriously threatened by anything since he took office?”.
    As long as Trumpstein takes care of the tribe, he is as safe as a newborn babe in its mother’s arms. Border security and walls for Izzyville…….check. Tax cuts for the (((rich)))…..check. Cheap money for the banks and wall street (((boys)))……..check. More destruction of the ME for the Izzies……check. Discarding international agreements the Izzies don’t like…..check. Sanctions on Izzy enemies…..check. So what’s in it for the monstrously stupid deplorable white trash? Hmmmmm…..that’s a tough one. Free fentanyl? Free suicide kits (plastic bag and tie rap)? Homoerotic negro sports worship on Sunday? New blue tarp for the leaking trailer roof? Fridge filled with free Ice House? Free MAGA wife beater t-shirts? Virtual penlight wall on the southern border? Halt to racial replacement through immigration of squat people? 50 cent raise in the minimum wage? At least Bongo gave his posse free ObamaPhones……

  45. JimB says:
    @Pat Boyle

    Trumps real threat is reallocating defense funds to actually defend the US by having the Army Corps of Engineers build a secure wall. Trump wants the 5 billion as a political victory, but low ball bid contractors will piss that away long before constructing an effective barrier without cracks that Guatolombians can’t shove their spawn through.

    • Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe
  46. @Sunbeam

    Yeah, we’ve been hearing the “3-D chess” argument for two years. I haven’t seen one piece of evidence that it’s true.

    It looks to me that Trump dithered and waffled for two years, and threw away his best chances. And now he’s up against it, with the electorate ready to turn on him for not fulfilling his promises, so he’s going to try a last-minute hail-mary. This isn’t 3-D chess. It’s dog-ate-my-homework.

    • Replies: @Amon
  47. He shouldn’t threaten it unless he’ll actually follow through with it in the absence of wall funding.

    I suppose the calculation is that the Republicans get blamed by the Press for any government shutdown no matter the makeup of the government so you might as well call the bluff and communicate to the Democrats that he’ll take the heat.

    The Republicans got blamed last time in spite of having the White House and both chambers of the Legislative branch because Schumer could prevent cloture on a budget bill in the Senate. The narrative was that Trump didn’t let the Democrat Senate minority call all of the shots, therefore Trump and the Republicans were to blame.

  48. Rotten says:

    He should do it.

    Go on offense for once. The Democrats want to put him on defense with all of this impeachment stuff.

  49. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    Yes, but he should demand the full $25 billion.

    He should have done it before the election. Actually, he should have refused to sign the tax cut bill unless it included the wall funding.

    This shutdown would be even less noticeable than the usual one, because some of it has already been funded.

    • Replies: @istevefan
  50. anon[341] • Disclaimer says:

    Yes, it seems like a political positive to shut down the government. Trump and Repubs don’t look great. But it makes the Dems seem terrible. It plays into the message that Dems are radical and incapable of governing. This combined with any impeachment proceedings would harden this perception.

    US population overwhelmingly supports immigration restriction, granted not necessarily a wall. Threat of government shutdown forces the Dems into a position of valuing Latin American immigration more than a functioning government that serves US citizens. Republicans could easily make this another Willie Horton for 2020, with many Keite Steinle-like ads.

    Dems also take a hit from federal employees, who are monolithically Democrat. The timing right before Christmas seems like an extra nice F-U. While lack of DC voting rights waters down their vote, suspect it will amplify support for more extreme Dem candidates, which is a bonus for Repubs.

    Also, think it helps for US population to see just how useless most domestic agencies are, despite spending trillions.

    • Replies: @Anon
  51. Tiny Duck says:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/420948-incoming-new-york-ag-we-will-use-every-area-of-the-law-to-investigate

    BOOM goes the dynamite.

    This is it. With Women of Color leading the charge Trump (and by extension white supremacy) will be taken to task and finally defeated in the great battle of out time

    • Replies: @El Dato
  52. istevefan says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Yes, but he should demand the full $25 billion.

    I don’t get that he is not asking for $25 billion or more. He is the great negotiator who is supposed to start with a big number and end up with something still useful. But why would he start off with a measly $5 billion?

    • Agree: reiner Tor, Anonym
  53. ‘Should Trump Do a Government Shutdown Over the Wall?’

    Yes.

  54. @Almost Missouri

    Oh, he threatens to do so a lot, alright. The tricky bit isn’t he never does a damned thing to actually fulfill them.

    By the way: To those calling for a national referendum, there is no mechanism for federal referenda; a constitutional amendment or extensive legislation would be required first to permit it.

    And that is going to happen Real Soon Now.

  55. TheOldOne says:

    Trump’s time has passed; he’s done. Stick a fork…

  56. anon[388] • Disclaimer says:

    As an aside, I’ve never understood why Republicans don’t push for fewer, more protracted stutdowns, rather than these symbolic 1-2 week deals.

    Keep federal employees out of work for more than 1 month, and they’re stuck paying rent with credit cards. For two months, they’re getting thrown out of apartments or being foreclosed on. At some point, they have to find new work. If you wanted to drain the swap, you’ve just succeeded.

    Let the shutdown occur in the winter, when most people will not notice national parks being closed. Even better if right after Christmas, when average government worker has credit card debt from shopping. Then let the shutdown go until March or so.

    The fact that Republicans do not do this is them living up to the name, the Dumb Party.

    • Replies: @notanon
  57. huisache says:

    If our mentally ill president was serious or knew what he was doing, aside from his carnival barker/geek show, he would tell his attorney general to start prosecuting a few employers for hiring the immigrants. Put a few republicans in the joint for a few months and the others would shuck their illegals. They would have to pay Americans a few dollars an hour more to clean the chickens and pave the streets and maintain the lawns but so what. Remove the food and the stray cats don’t show up.

    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Hunsdon
    , @Anonymous
  58. notanon says:

    Should Trump do a government shutdown over The Wall?

    yes

    he only ever had a couple of ways to win the best one being a massive corruption investigation over the Clinton Foundation (which would have taken out most of his establishment enemies in the swamp: GOPe, Dem and deep state (probably including Mueller) and scared the rest and that tactic being so obvious i assumed until recently Sessions was preparing that behind the scenes – seems i was either badly wrong or there simply weren’t enough honest people in DC to make such an investigation possible.

    without a massive corruption clean out i can’t see how he can win without an actual wall fight with the swamp – either he uses the Corps of Engineers against the wishes of the swamp or he uses a shut-down to show he is trying and the swamp is stopping him.

    (on balance using the corps of engineers might be better optics – so maybe combine the two somehow?)

    (like order the CoE to do it and say he’ll shut down the govt if the swamp tries to block it)

    • Replies: @El Dato
  59. Paul Rain says:

    Yes. Because he was too much of a nancy to do it before. Don’t care, he needs to do something, and he’s done if he doesn’t do this.

  60. notanon says:
    @Sam

    He owed nothing to the Republican Ryan wing so no need to follow their lead freely without it costing them anything.

    it’s possible he was never on the level but if he is it’s possible he believed the meme that GOPe were dumb and he’s been trying to persuade them what was in their best electoral interest.

    they’re not dumb they’re corrupt – he has to see them as paid agents of his enemies not slow children who with enough patience can be made to understand.

  61. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @larry lurker

    It’s because he was with a fellow fast talking, quick witted New Yorker and a tough lady from a Baltimore political family. They can spar with him verbally and so he doesn’t dominate the situation like he normally would when surrounded by, say, retiring and deferential Midwestern stiffs. You’ll notice Pence, the Midwesterner, was completely wooden and invisible in that situation.

  62. AnonAnon says:

    Sure, shut it down. He got elected on building a wall. I like that he sent troops to the border, shot tear gas at the people trying to rush in and didn’t apologize for it, despite all the media wailing.

    On a side note, I do think Trump’s been a bit muted since the midterms/his trip to Paris. Maybe the blatant stealing of House seats (in California) has demoralized and forced him to see the writing on the wall and throw in the towel fighting the deep state or, hoping against hope, he’s taken the fight more behind the scenes.

  63. notanon says:
    @Mr. Anon

    I believe that Stephen Miller had one (you don’t hear about him anymore), but – you are right – it doesn’t seem like Trump is (or was) serious about implementing it.

    two possibilities:

    1) Trump was never on the level

    2) the swamp (which includes Dems, GOPe and deep state) is too corrupt to beat using conventional methods

    whichever is true, politically speaking it’s better to promote option (2).

  64. @nsa

    I figured out shortly after the midterms why this has happened. When Trump was down for the count after Access Hollywood, one (and only one) mega-donor stood by him and dropped tens of millions of last-minute cash into his campaign. This same donor was also the biggest donor to the Republican midterm ‘effort’.

    Sheldon Adelson.

    Just one year before Trump announced his candidacy, Adelson (joined by Bill Gates and Warren Buffett) wrote a NYT Op-Ed calling for blanket amnesty without a single specific proposal to improve enforcement of our current immigration laws, still less any proposal to reduce future legal immigration. In other words, the ‘86 Immigration Act, multiplied by ten (as we have ten times as many illegal aliens to amnesty as we did back then).

    Trump has given Adelson everything he wanted: the most pro-Israel policy ever, tax cuts that literally put over a billion into his pocket, business-as-usual on immigration, even a personal business pitch by Trump to the Prime Minister of Japan to help Adelson break into the Japanese gambling racket.

    No public figure has called out Donald as Shelly’s b*tch, but someone needs to. Maybe, just maybe, Trump will respond by demanding immediate construction across the entire U.S.-Mexico border of the type of wall Netanyahu has boasted of keeping out 99% of (in Netanyahu’s words) African “economic interlopers.”

  65. US Senator Charles Schumer puts the interests of Israel ahead of the interests of the United States.

    US Senator Charles Schumer is a treasonous politician of the worst sort.

  66. notanon says:
    @JimB

    Only the US Army Cor of Engineers can give him that.

    yes – on reflection i think this is correct – wall funding could still be sabotaged later

  67. notanon says:
    @anon

    The fact that Republicans do not do this is them living up to the name, the Dumb Party.

    Clinton’s private speeches to the banks (released by wikileaks) showed the banking mafia want open borders across all of north and south America and pay for it through campaign donations.

    GOPe aren’t dumb they’re corrupt.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  68. Dr. X says:

    Should Trump do a government shutdown over The Wall?

    Shut it down??? Hell, yeah!

    Burn it down would be even better!

  69. anon[427] • Disclaimer says:

    Absolutely yes. It’s about time. Dems will cave in the end if government offices are not open, but by the next election any effect/pain felt by the closing of government offices would’ve been forgotten, but everyone will remember his wall.

  70. George says:

    Teens badly hurt after falling from U.S-Mexico border wall
    https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=CWT1t_1544502554

  71. If Trump shuts it down, he needs to state clearly and without equivocation that there will be no back pay to federal workers who are sent home. They get NOTHING! Most of these workers are Democrats and he needs to make them feel pain, so they put pressure on their congressmen to capitulate.

  72. Amon says:
    @Bizarro World Observer

    Wasn’t it 4D chess that he was constantly praised for by his loyal boot lickers online?

  73. Spud Boy says:

    Yes, and he should keep it shut down until the following is accomplished:

    1. Wall funded and construction started
    2. EO ending affirmative action
    3. Defund the Department of Education
    4. Defund HUD

  74. Anonymous[246] • Disclaimer says:

    Short answer, yes.

    Actually, I’d like to see the government shut down… then wait two days and offer to cut the military budget by a mere 10% if he gets 25 billion for the wall. That changes it from costing 25 to saving 50. Then wait a week or so, and offer to cut the military budget by 10% even without wall funding unless THEY build the wall. See how they like them apples.

    • Replies: @Mis(ter)Anthrope
  75. Anonymous[175] • Disclaimer says:
    @larry lurker

    Related: He really did seem off his game with Chuck and Nancy. It was weird – unlike him.

    What are you referring to?

  76. Anonymous[175] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Not just the wall, but every single item on the fix immigration wishlist all at once. If Congress doesn’t budge he should start talking about some sort of referendum. This is a one time shot so best to not miss anything.

    I like this Tyrion2 fellow.

  77. @Tiny Duck

    “The wall is impossible to build, of questionable value and hideously expensive. ”

    But the Kaiser built a 2,000 Volt electric fence to keep civilians from crossing the Dutch–Belgian frontier during the occupation of Belgium during The Great War. It was powered by it’s own electrical generation plant. It worked.

    “Construction began in the spring of 1915 and consisted of over 200 km (125 mi) of 2,000-volt wire with a height ranging from 1.5 to about 3 m (5 to about 10 ft) spanning the length of the Dutch-Belgian border from Aix-la-Chapelle to the River Scheldt.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_of_Death

    In the 21st century, 5,000 Volt electrical distribution lines are available. A simple 1:2 step-down transformer would give us an inexpensive 2KV power source. You can’t cheaper than an electric fence which is basically two wires on insulators mounted on a piece of wood. Let’s see the southern invaders attempt to leapfrog that with one of their proverbial “20 foot” ladders.

  78. Amon says:
    @Sunbeam

    Its called bread and circuses.

    You give the public something flashy and loud to gawk at while the real action takes place behind you nice and quietly.

    1: Stop the demographic replacement: Nope, sorry, he just wants it done nice and legally so no one can complain about it afterwards. Those caravans parked at the US border with drug dealers, rapist and welfare sponges, well, Trump says they can all enter the US so long as they apply for it. Of course the media will whine about how mean Trump is to them but they always leave out the part about legally applying to enter.

    When the Roman empire died, only 20 percent of the population was actually Roman, the rest were slaves and migrants.

    2: MAGA, right, the US is f-ing bankrupt, the state of the nation is utterly worthless as just fixing the worn down infrastructure will cost a trillion dollars at best. Meanwhile the greatest fighting force in the world is worn down and unable to win even a small scale battle and yet it just got 700 billion taxpayer money to keep the dying empire’s client states going while the homeland dies from the forced import of slaves.

    All this while the US debt hovers closer to passing the inane 22 trillion dollars mark with congress not giving two cents about it. After all, the biggest debt crisis in all of history is “someone else’s problem.”

    And of course, we can’t forget Trump vowed to win the war In Afghanistan and Iraq but also can’t get out of Syria while outloud talking about regime change in Iran, putting boots on the ground in Venezuela while also taking pot shots at North Korea, China, Russia and Libya.

    Seems MAGA is code for dragging the US down behind the woodshed for a quick execution.

    3: Trade wars, oh god the trade wars. Who is winning and who is losing. Here’s a pro tip, slapping a trade on all the products coming into your nation is one sure fire way to win a trade war, especially when doing so forces your client states to rebuild their infrastructure and productions to produce the goods they need at an affordable price thus cutting you out of the market place. It works even worse when its your own national companies that get rammed up the backside because your taxing their products.

    Who gets the bill, the tax payer, as usual.

    4: Hell, one might ask Trump, that if he cares so much about the US why then hasn’t he taken steps to end the communist uprising sweeping through the major cities of the US. Why is he allowing the police to protect domestic terrorists and thugs while beating up and arresting innocent people.

    The answer is that Trump is the republic Obama. A well trained silver tongued snake selected by the ruling elite to provide the public with a false symbol of hope even as night settles on America for good.

  79. @Jack Hanson

    I need to offer a very belated apology for that time I mistakenly accused you of supporting the first bombing campaign in Syria. I could have sworn I remembered something, but I’ve searched the archives and discovered that it wasn’t there.

  80. Wierdo says:

    Army Corp of Engineers can start tommorow, defensible position secured by regular army. Can make entire border one long, thin military base/training area. All southern trespasserss shot by automated machine guns when laser-photo-eyes are tripped. Plenty of warning signs. No public entry allowed.

    Just do it.

  81. haole says:

    Correct me if I am wrong, if the congress does nt send something Trump likes he does not have to sign it and the government shuts down. So Tump has already played his hand, we can see his cards. The question is what will the dems do? Will they try to get 66 votes in the senate to override him? The military is already funded so Trump will not be shutting them down.

  82. Lot says:
    @Jack Hanson

    “He’s also got to find it in him to split the Gordian Knot of district judges applying ORANGE MAN BAD legal theorem to anything he does.”

    Appeal to the Supreme Court. It worked on the travel ban, they reversed most of the district court injunction even with Kennedy still on it. It will take about 6-18 months.

    The good news is injunctions in the 9th circuit used to go for initial review to Kennedy, I assume they now will go to Kav. Each Justice gets assigned one part of the USA and they rarely change.

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
  83. Anon[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    The recent Pew report of multiple countries indicated that the US has the second highest rate of people supporting “increased immigration” only super-leftist Spain was higher. The left has only just become aware that immigration means a permanent majority for the left, so their positions have shifted away from the legacy labor/environmental views. The Right has not matched this polarization, plenty of buffoons still think that “legal” immigrants aren’t the 3 to 1 leftist voters that they really are.

    Federal employees are not monolithic Dems. Employment in fedgov is determined in part by veteran’s preference points. Veterans are well observed as more Republican than the average voter, even among blacks this trend holds.

    DC-area workers for “federal contractors” are true to the stereotype.

    Much of federal spending is just transfer payments to the entitlements and debt service, and involves remarkably few bureaucrats.

    • Replies: @anon
  84. Aardvark says:

    In the last shutdown… the government threw a temper tantrum over it and shutdown part of the government but somehow had the resources for national park rangers to block people from going in to National Parks. It was the most childish thing I had seen.
    So at least here as precedent we can shutdown the government and still man the border…
    And yes, I said “MAN”…

  85. Anon[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @huisache

    Internal leaks have alleged that the Cabinet has revolted whenever Trump suggests something strong on immigration.

    The remittance tax has vanished from discussion, probably because former bank CEO Mnuchin.

    The Energy and Ag Secetaries were notorious squishes on immigration when they were Governors.

    DHS Secretary is incompetent, and (groundless speculation) probably used sexual favors for advancement.

    The Labor Secretary is compromised by his involvement with Epstein, he was also involved with banking and has reasons to scuttle the practicality of a remittance tax.

    Defense Sec. Mattis has publicly undermined the administration several times, he or Interior Secretary Zinke (neocon) would be the one charged with actually building a wall.

  86. This is a very good Tweet. It wrecks the constant refrain from Democrats — “we can’t afford this wasteful boondoggle” — as if they’re the Party of Fiscal Restraint. Tucker Carlson also brought up a good one — their slavish devotion to the Head Start program, which has cost us billions with no discernible benefit. I’d also bring up their willingness to pump billions into climate change remediation nonsense.

    Trump needs to build this wall. Unlike some others here, I actually believe he’s dedicated to doing it. But he knows that if he bypassed Congress and built it on national security grounds, there would be massive violence. Not in Mexico, here. That’s no doubt weighing on his mind.

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
  87. I’m convinced his plan was to do this back in September, when it would’ve worked. But along came that vocal fry head case from Palo Alto, and Trump’s political instincts were to let the then-emerging Kavanaugh Mania backlash be his ticket to a satisfactory (if still somewhat disappointing) result in what was supposed to be the BLUE WAVE midterm (the result was a bigger disappointment for them, than it was for us).

    The Kavanaugh kerfuffle thus caused the inevitable government-shut-down-in-service-of-The-Wall maneuvering to get pushed back to December. But I don’t see how it works in December, absent the ticking clock of the impending election. The new Congress, with a Democratic majority in the House, begins on January 3rd. It’s beginning to look like Trump’s going to have The Wall around as an issue for the 2nd term. Not sure how that plays out for him, however. Can he actually run, in substantial part, on Wall 2: Electric Boogaloo, or will he just be reminding people of his own legislative failure? I suppose a government shut-down in December of 2018, might help shape the perception that Trump fought the good fight, but the Democrats stuck it to our nation in order to advance their partisan interests. At least that narrative has the virtue of being essentially correct….

  88. @JimB

    Trumps real threat is reallocating defense funds to actually defend the US by having the Army Corps of Engineers build a secure wall.

    Yes, that’s clearly our best hope at this late stage. And frankly, so long as he’s willing to be audacious enough to issue the necessary order, I don’t see how it fails to succeed. But he will need a Sec Def who’s on board with it….which may have something to do with why there’s been a rumor that Mattis won’t be around much longer. Remember a couple months ago, when Trump said “Mattis is almost like a Democrat”? It was unclear what that remark was about. Perhaps Mattis had already expressed reservations about this Army Corps of Engineers gambit?

  89. Dennis Dale says: • Website
    @larry lurker

    I thought he dominated. It was hardly Lincoln-Douglas, but Chuck was miserable, scoring a terrific own-goal ( “When the president brags he won North Dakota and Indiana, he’s in real trouble…”; I was dying for Trump to say “well played, Chuck”), sitting there looking like a certain caricature. Nancy actually held her own for a bit, but the dye job and that vacuous affect of hers…they both looked old and tired.

    It was great. And a remarkable pulling back of the veil on the process. Trump continues to stumble into these wins, because he doesn’t know any better. If only it led to something substantial.

  90. donut says:

    Trump has spent his administration signalling the Jews . And blowing smoke up our asses . He doesn’t want a second term “been there done that” . He has to go back to NYC and get along with those people . Trumps not so much smart as a cunning . He’s not an apex predator . Trump feeds mostly on carrion but will take live prey when the odds are good or when to eat is a matter of life or death . BTW I think Nancy came off better in that WH thing than Chuck who “just never” .

  91. It was hardly Lincoln-Douglas, but Chuck was miserable, scoring a terrific own-goal ( “When the president brags he won North Dakota and Indiana, he’s in real trouble…”; I was dying for Trump to say “well played, Chuck”), sitting there looking like a certain caricature.

    Does US Senator Schumer know that there are a lot of German Americans in Indiana and North Dakota?

    Does US Senator Schumer have any kind of ethnic animosity against German Americans?

  92. Hunsdon says:
    @huisache

    E-verify for employment, e-verify for benefits. Prosecute the employers Deport in the workers

  93. Yes, he should do a government shutdown. Why not. But, it’s crazy that we are talking about this two years later. He had a Republican Congress and made no progress on the wall. (I know that most of the Congressional Republicans are/were Never Trump cucks, but the upcoming Democrat majority in the House will be even worse).

    He should have done a shutdown when the GOP-majority Congress wouldn’t fund the wall in the beginning. He should have let a shutdown go on for as long as needed until he got the wall. He needed Congress to fund his wall and should have pressed the issue.

    For a lot of the other stuff, Congress wouldn’t have made much difference. He could have done plenty on immigration enforcement, going after employers, etc. without Congress. The travel ban stuff was partially stymied by the courts, but Congress made no difference. For most of the trade deal stuff, China, North Korea, etc., he didn’t need Congress. The one thing that he was elected on that needed help from Congress was the wall.

    Trump immediately made nice with Paul Ryan and the rest of the GOP establishment. But he got nothing out of it. That would have been an O.K. approach as long as he told Ryan and company behind the scenes that they had to deliver on the wall or else.

  94. I’ll believe this administration is serious about immigration, when they find a place for Kris Kobach.

    Alot could have been done the last two years without the wall.

    Why aren’t we; taxing remittances leaving the country, cutting off any and all welfare for illegals, stopping any earned income tax credits going to illegals, making E-verify mandatory, proscecuting employers of illegals, etc?

  95. Peterike says:

    Should Trump do a government shutdown over The Wall?

    At this point, what difference does it make?

  96. ” The wall is impossible to build,” tell that to the Chinese
    “of questionable value” no, of tremendous value-it would stop illegal immigration
    ” and hideously expensive.” tell that to the Chinese
    “Immigration is down.” The third largest country on the planet has been literally transformed in 50 years (less than a lifetime). This has literally never happened in human history before.
    “Most terrorism is caused by white Christian males.” Terrorism? What does that have to do with anything? Strawman much?
    “Border security depends on people and a court system that is able to handle the influx of people requesting asylum” No, border security depends on a people willing to secure the border.

    From 1920-1970, illegal immigration (for that matter, immigration) was virtually nonexistent. That was a political choice. From 1970-present, illegal immigration (and immigration) have, again, changed the demographic background of a gigantic country in 50 years-something that has never happened before in human history-at this scale, at this speed. That too has been a political choice. It has not been the political choice of the citizens of the country at any time during that period, but it was the political choice of the elites in charge of the country.

    The harshest reality to face about the whole issue is that it doesn’t matter what the people want, and it doesn’t matter how the people vote. What matters is what the elites want (voting in new elites doesn’t seem to change things). As long as the elites don’t want border security, there won’t be. When elites want border security, there will be. Trump’s charades aren’t going to make a differerence. If being elected President can’t get the job done, presidential shenanigans aren’t going to get the job done.

    joe

  97. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Elvis Costello of Western Civilization? Quentin Tarantino of white identity?

  98. @Tyrion 2

    As I’ve said before, the USA is currently in a 4 year window of potential action. The LAST potential action ever. The demographics are just changing too fast now.

    2020 is dicey… the Deep State will take it away from him even if he does win. After 2020 no Republican will ever win again on the current platform.

    So… he has wasted 2 years. He has 2 years to do something, or else the USA is gone. Simple as that. Demographics are destiny.

  99. El Dato says:
    @Tiny Duck

    I can only agree.

    But maybe publicly announcing that she will embark on a state-funded grievance-fueled fishing expedition against the Prez’s personal life immediately after getting the AG’s job was not such a good idea.

    One definitely sees how Africa works. Or not.

    Exploitable picture here:

    https://www.rt.com/usa/446310-attorney-general-investigate-trump/

  100. El Dato says:
    @notanon

    (on balance using the corps of engineers might be better optics – so maybe combine the two somehow?)

    You mean build “relaxation camps” directly reachable from the beltway?

    An excellent idea.

    I’m sure the Prison-Industrial Complex can offer consultance, for a fee. One wouldn’t want a repeat of the failure of the New Orleans CoE-built canal walls.

  101. J.Ross says: • Website

    There is no such thing as a “government shutdown.” He’s temporarily closing the hot dog stand at Yosemite, not magicking away the US Army. A suspension of the least justifiable parasitism is overdue on principle. It’s politically smart if he can make Schumer and Pelosi wear it. Despite the doubling down on the doubling down on the mass media normalization of Trump derangement syndrome, Democrats still seem pretty clueless and people still seem pretty clear on fundamental issues. Democrats think that black people who would not vote for Hillary and white taxpayers watching their legacy burn will care about things that they will never care about. The Democrats will “shut it down” with much fanfare, nobody will be impressed except to hate the 11% supported Congress more than they already do, and then everything will continue.
    The real question is, what if Trump “shut down the government,” and then continued to attack his own supporters and not build a wall?

  102. A real shutdown that forces one’s opponents to adopt a policy with which they vehemently disagree requires at least three things: (1) Strong and unwavering leadership from a committed President. (2) Close ideological, strategic, and tactical coordination between that President and his Congressional allies. (3) An administration that knows exactly how to shift the levers of power to achieve legislative goals.

    Both Trump and the largely hostile Republican establishment, which still controls Congress, lack all three. But Trump’s position at this point seems so precarious that the best strategy might be to risk all in one last ditch, all-out, and probably hopeless effort to accomplish some of the goals which he promised his base that he would achieve.

  103. @Lot

    No. He needs to go full Jackson. The asylum ban was fully predicated on the travel ban and a district judge still ruled ORANGE MAN BAD and issued a nationwide injunction.

    The amount of power invested in the courts makes a joke of any popular rule. We are ruled by unelected mandarins in black dresses.

    • Replies: @Lot
  104. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Mr. Anon

    Remember when the investigation was about Russia? And now they’re trying to restart the thoroughly exhausted “prostitution is legal for the rich” thing.
    The only thing that frustrates me is that the self-appointed defenders of democracy are so perpendicular to the people they claim to represent, and there’s really nothing anyone can do about it.

  105. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Did Costello write the first invade-invite anthem?

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/do-artists-get-better-after-they-get/#co

  106. Thomm says:

    More than the wall, government shutdowns should be used to expose which departments are not needed, and then prioritize those departments for elimination.

    Overall, Government spending should be slashed at least 25% (I prefer 50%).

  107. Thomm says:

    Wasn’t trump going to pay for the wall with a tax on remittances to Mexico and Guatemala? That is the best way to get support for it from the broader public.

  108. How would we rate Tim Cook as CEO of Apple if he ordered a shut down of i-Phones as a negotiating tactic to get lower taxes for his company?

    Although I am agnostic about the wall, I would like to hear some serious arguments about how cost effective the wall would actually be in preventing illegal border crossings, transborder crime, smuggling, etc. Would it prevent the export of US guns to Mexican criminal gangs? Would it stop narcotics coming in from South America? Would there also be a “no-fly” zone along the frontier?

    And would it not be better for Trump to focus on his promise of affordable health insurance for all?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Anonym
    , @Reg Cæsar
  109. J.Ross says: • Website

    Now that a man under police surveillance after 27 convictions has somehow managed to obtain a firearm and fulfill an Islamic threat to shoot up a Christmas market, France is banning public demonstrations. Like the Yellow Vest ones that have been threatening Macron’s misrule for weeks.
    But don’t worry. This is just until they catch the guy.

  110. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Jonathan Mason

    How would we rate Tim Cook as CEO of Apple if he ordered a shut down of i-Phones as a negotiating tactic to get lower taxes for his company?

    He’d make the cover of Fast Company and Time with glowing praise. He’s an idiot, and Apple already does nearly this (to its customers and clients, not the government), and did so before him. I’m not seeing how the sovereignty of a nation state is conparable to the profit margin of a private company.

    • Agree: Autochthon
  111. El Dato says:

    OT but apparently planning to build ego-towers in Moscow is now a crime, especially if you can, as potential future President, might hope to smooth the relationship with that foreign country. America NEVER smooth relationships with other countries, unless they roll over.

    Stab-in-the-back style innuendo and begging of questions reporting by the NYT notwithstanding, should Michael Cohen being sent down for vague and imprecise claims make US lawyers look over their shoulder as the State’s cold hand might be reaching towards them next?

  112. Anonymous[332] • Disclaimer says:

    Only if he has the balls to stick it out and win. If he thinks he might give in after two weeks of bad press, don’t bother.

    He needs to find a way to *delay* federal welfare programs/payments. I know he can’t stop them, but he could cause them to be late. A bunch of inner-city dwellers calling their Dem congressmen screaming would give Trump a lot more leverage.

  113. Anonym says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Cost of Iraq Attaq: $1.1 trillion USD

    Benefits: Israel happy

    Cost of US Mexico border wall: $25B?

    Benefits include white people being able to maintain a majority of votes in a democracy, minimizing the need for armed revolution when subject to tyranny.

  114. Ed says:

    Honestly a shutdown over mandatory e-verify would be more useful.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  115. Should Trump Do a Government Shutdown Over the Wall?

    Hey, it worked for Germany.

  116. @Jonathan Mason

    And would it not be better for Trump to focus on his promise of affordable health insurance for all?

    There will never be affordable health insurance until low-wage immigration is at zero. And many of the subsidized arrivals sent back.

  117. We should somehow trick the l’chaimstream media into thinking (and subsequently reporting) that a bunch of heterosexual white Christian Russians are pouring over our southern border. The resulting uproar would get that wall built post-haste.

  118. Whiskey says: • Website

    Win for Macron. Never bet against the Deep State. He will likely institute new taxes more onerous than the old.

    Trump is likely in jail in two months. Some idiot DA in Manhattan is charging him with illegal campaign payments. In 2014.

    Law does not matter. Like Judge Dredd they are the law.

    Whole thing is kabuki theater. President Hillary shudder will outlaw all White men first thing when she takes office.

    The Resistance is all paid Hillary machine generated outrage. Aim is to make Hillary the President

  119. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Tyrion 2

    This is not only what he should do, but this would be stereotypically Trumpian in the best sense — what an older Trump would do — and yet he does not do it.

  120. J.Ross says: • Website

    How much is it costing us, in money and freedom, to pretend to be the Soviet Union?

    Several months after taking control of the troubled Tribune Publishing Co. in 2016, Chicago investor Michael Ferro convened a session of corporate leaders from within his own news empire, including chief news executives from such storied papers as the Los Angeles Times, the Chicago Tribune and The Baltimore Sun.

    At the dinner, as at other moments, Ferro railed against those who he felt were impeding him — including perceived rivals and competitors. Among them: the Southern California billionaire and civic leader Eli Broad, whom Ferro called part of a “Jewish cabal” that ran Los Angeles.

    This account of the evening is based on interviews with two attendees who separately say they heard Ferro make those remarks. A spokesman for Ferro denied the incident occurred and called the claim “reckless allegations.”

    Early this year, however, Tribune Publishing made the first in a series of secret payments to total more than $2.5 million to avert a threatened lawsuit filed by a fired newspaper executive, according to three people with knowledge of the deal. That had the effect of keeping Ferro’s anti-Semitic slur out of the public spotlight.

    https://www.npr.org/2018/12/12/675961765/tribune-tronc-and-beyond-a-slur-a-secret-payout-and-a-looming-sale

    >but this is only wealthy idiots who act carelessly at a business function where they ought to have been careful anyway
    Alexa, tell the police I’ve been bad.

  121. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Hubbub

    He promised to build a wall.

    I don’t know why people can’t see that the Wall is pointless. As soon as the Democrats retake the White House they’ll tear it down.

    What matters is having the political will to introduce and then maintain border controls. What matters is changing the political culture on immigration. Trump hasn’t done those things. And he’s not going to do anything about legal immigration because he’s all in favour of it. He just wants to make the population replacement look more orderly.

    Unless you can get massive public support for stopping immigration it’s all just smoke and mirrors. And the massive public support for stopping immigration isn’t there. Most people don’t care. That’s the problem in the U.S. and in Australia and in western Europe. Most people still believe that immigration is a good thing. They think that it’s only the illegal immigrants that are bad.

    Unless you win the battle of ideas over immigration any talk of a Wall is futile.

    And Big Business is still solidly pro-immigration. If the flow of illegals is reduced they’ll just keep pushing for more legal immigration, otherwise the crops will be rotting in the fields etc.

    • Replies: @Precious
    , @notanon
  122. Precious says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Sure. How do Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen fit into “the plan”?

    Stormy Daniels by hiring a so over the top lawyer that he made Trump opposition look ridiculous. Recall Avenatti helped Kavanaugh onto the Supreme Court. As for Michael Cohen, his pleading guilty to personal fraud shows how squeaky clean Trump really is…even Trump’s shady lawyer doesn’t have any dirt on him.

    Now tell us the story about Q-Anon.

    Seems like you already know that story.

    So far, the Trump administration pretty much looks like what you’d expect you’d get by electing a Reality TV star.

    Only if you ignore wins on North Korea, NAFTA and the killing of the Paris Accord at the national level. But we can tell you only like to talk about how the glass is half empty.

  123. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    Youth favor invasion more than helping in their homelands. The elderly do seem to be aware what the score is.

    It’s called losing the Culture War. Anyone under the age of 40 thinks immigration is normal and natural and it’s a good thing and it’s the moral thing to do, because the indoctrination has been so successful and so complete.

    People under 40 are simply not capable of having negative thoughts about immigration.

  124. @Sunbeam

    ‘…You guys see chaos (what you are supposed to see). What they are actually doing is systematically rolling out something. Why you might actually call it the “plan.”’

    This sounds ominously similar to Hitler’s Wunderwaffen.

    I don’t think Trump has a plan. He’s better than any of the alternatives, but that’s about all there is to be said for him.

  125. @Ed

    ‘Honestly a shutdown over mandatory e-verify would be more useful.’

    Sure — but you take what you can get.

  126. Precious says:
    @dfordoom

    I don’t know why people can’t see that the Wall is pointless. As soon as the Democrats retake the White House they’ll tear it down. What matters is having the political will to introduce and then maintain border controls.

    You are absolutely correct that the border controls is more important.

    But if you think once a wall is up the Democrats can tear it down, you don’t realize how things work in Washington. Once the wall goes up you have a maintenance budget and with that budget comes the lobby to make sure the gravy keeps pouring.

    Tearing down the wall is the same as ending a government program…more of a hypothetical fantasy rather than an exercise in reality.

    • Replies: @Jack Armstrong
  127. Lot says:
    @Jack Hanson

    Full Jackson on the border wall, sure. That will never pass Congress, so there is no option but ordering the Army to do it.

    But many other issues the law is on our side, from the travel ban to DACA repeal to suspending the diversity visa to birthright citizenship repeal, and we’ll win before the Supreme Court.

    While we wait for the inevitable lower court injunctions to be lifted, the best practice is pretending to comply, not open defiance.

  128. @Anonymous

    How can we possible invade Iran on behalf of our Israeli masters if we cut military spending?

  129. @Precious

    Still 40 dudes in Gitmo aren’t there?

  130. @Tiny Duck.

    Oh boy, I can’t wait. After my many travels across Africa, which nation shall we model after? Zimbabwe perhaps? Maybe Niger or Liberia. What fun! There’s always SA and the stories outta there sound like a Disney adventure waiting to happen. Will Hawaii be the new Seychelles? Ya know come to think of it, this idea of yours is starting to sound like a nightmare.

  131. dfordoom says: • Website
    @notanon

    GOPe aren’t dumb they’re corrupt.

    Yep. And they aren’t losers. They’re winning. They’re getting everything they want. It’s just that what they see as winning is not what their poor dumb faithful voters see as winning.

  132. Did you see this one Steve?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/12/opinion/democrats-republicans-senior-voters-aarp-.html

    Senior power is the sleeping giant of American politics. In the midterm elections, according to CNN exit polls, 56 percent of voters were over age 50, and about a quarter (26 percent) were 65 or over. By comparison, voters under age 30 accounted for just 13 percent — and it was a good year for youth turnout.

    Those age 50-plus voters split their votes evenly between Democrats and Republicans. The party that maximizes its share of those high-turnout voters wins an emerging swing constituency, and especially in key battleground states.

    Older Americans’ collective voting clout has usually been fragmented by more salient variables of race, religion, ideology-party, class, gender or family status. But that is changing: Age and race have begun to coalesce in a manner that should alarm Democrat

  133. J.Ross says: • Website
    @dfordoom

    Chateau Heartiste just posted a reader letter from a university student criticizing migrants and a probably young anon in Poland had a photothread (in the infinite but unnameable forum) about spreading awareness of Kevin MacDonald with simple four-word xeroxed signs, which resulted in a local publisher starting new runs of Culture of Critique because of demand.

  134. @Tiny Duck.

    All things change, Little Web, but never as expected.

  135. bjondo says:

    Maybe move the military bases from NY, CA to the deplorable states.

  136. @Tyrion 2

    Unfortunately, Trump seems to be just waking up to the fact he’s in deep shit.

    He did some modest, very slow, improvements–TPS revocations refugees–on the immigration issue, but otherwise failed to make serious headway on immigration despite a Republican congress.
    — Failed to make serious headway on his signature Wall.
    — Failed to challenge judicial interference.
    — Failed to do anything on mandatory E-verify an *easy* win–easy to explain “jobs”, “wages” and impossible for the Democrats to defend their opposition.
    — Failed to even appoint people who shared his (at least nominal) agenda.

    Given where we are on the economy Trump should have been able to have only mild midterm lossses. Sure the establishment media lying and spin tilted his road uphill. But Trump’s real problem was the opposition was energied, while Trump’s non-delivery demoralized a lot of people who showed up and voted for him in 2016. Yelling “winning”, turns out to not actually be winning.

    Now Trump seems–belated–to understand he’s headed for a shellacking in 2020, unless he can actually deliver something for his voters.

    The Democrats can–and may well–bale him out with their choice of candidate. They have lots of bad ones. But Trump can’t count on that.

    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @Precious
  137. @Dennis Dale

    Trump continues to stumble into these wins, because he doesn’t know any better. If only it led to something substantial.

    Trump, as he himself has said, follows his intuition (gut). Sometimes it is a big win (illegal immigration) but it is difficult to use intuition to sustain a focused progression with a fixed goal in mind (e.g. stopping illegal immigration). He may yet stumble into another win – the military constructing the wall can work.

    Trump is less willing to fly the American Eagle towards the Establishment than I expected. But counterfactuals are difficult to evaluate. Maybe it is the best he can do.

    Trump is less that we would like to see, but more that we could have hoped for ten years ago. We all knew he was a long shot, the only chance for avoiding a bloody civil war. And the way of the world is that Trump will fail. The slavemasters of the Left are betting on Trump failing. For us, when you have but one way out, you take it. Trump is the only game in town. And there is no Republican of stature that can offer a greater chance of success.

    • Replies: @Sam Malone
  138. @Amon

    Nice example of the fallacy of “if you can’t do everything I want, nothing you do is good or useful.”

    • Replies: @Amon
    , @Autochthon
  139. @nsa

    Free fentanyl?

    Based on your post, that must be the one that caught you up.

  140. @Kevin O'Keeffe

    But he will need a Sec Def who’s on board with it….which may have something to do with why there’s been a rumor that Mattis won’t be around much longer

    True. Personnel is policy.

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
  141. Anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:

    The bureaucracy involved in a multibillion federal construction project that would span several states and require the use/seizure of private property from thousands of citizens…just thinking about it gives me a headache. The wall was a nice campaign slogan, but it’s a boondoggle that has no chance of being implemented. Trump should focus his energy on what can (maybe) be practically accomplished: mandatory e-Verify, penalties for employing illegals, tax on remittances, reduction or elimination of work visas, challenging birthright citizenship, maybe a crackdown on birth tourism?

    Prolonged government shutdown would do nothing but add to Trump’s image as unstable and unreliable, with the attendant loss of investor confidence and subsequent financial ramifications. For something as pie-in-the-sky as a border wall it’s just asinine. This is not the hill to die on.

  142. @ic1000

    Mueller has nothing, and will always have nothing, so not sure what you’re worried about. Don’t be weak

    Now, they could make up something, and will certainly try

  143. @Mr. Anon

    Stormy and m.Cohen are literally nothing. The enemy tries to have plans too

  144. @Bragadocious

    Trump’s master stroke would be to crowd fund the fence. If everyone of his 60 million voters gave just $100 he could build the entire fence. All he would have to do is set up an alt-right go-fund-me site and the money would pour in.

    The Israeli fence cost about $2-3 million per mile. It is not pretty but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Basically, all it would need to be is a max-security prison style fence wrapped in concertina wire. Build a dirt road and an anti-car berm and you have effectively kept out 99% of the “migrants” and 100% of the fat women with children.

    The propaganda value of this alone would be awesome. During ww2 whole towns would do fund raising drives to raise money to buy a single plane or tank to give to the war effort. People were able to get personally involved and there was a feeling of solidarity. Better yet, it would completely out flank the Democrats who are currently trying to dry up the funding as a way of blocking it. They would only be able to sit on their hands and watch people take action. There would be the added bonus of knowing that tens of millions of patriotic Democrats would fund the wall too.

    • Replies: @Bragadocious
  145. anon[588] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Much of federal spending is just transfer payments to the entitlements and debt service, and involves remarkably few bureaucrats.

    Lol. Sure.

    Which is why the zip codes around DC are among the most affluent in the nation, rivaling only Silicon Valley and Wall Street bedroom communities.

    • Replies: @clyde
  146. Anonymous[175] • Disclaimer says:
    @huisache

    he would tell his attorney general to start prosecuting a few employers for hiring the immigrants.

    Under what law?

  147. @Lot

    The fact you can say this in a timeline where Roberts rewrote law to save the ACA is amazing.

    • Replies: @Lot
  148. @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Its well to note that Trump’s current AG pick defended and defined the legal rationale for the military to build the wall during GHWB’s admin.

  149. Precious says:
    @AnotherDad

    Now Trump seems–belated–to understand he’s headed for a shellacking in 2020, unless he can actually deliver something for his voters.

    The stakes are much higher than elections now…he sees they want him and his family jailed or dead. I thought with the Democrats seizing the House we would get a stalemate, but it is clear Democrats won’t settle for that, they want all or nothing.

    • Replies: @notanon
  150. J.Ross says: • Website

    Regarding that New York state college student arrested for posting a flyer, the offensive Nazi text on the flyer (I’m not posting an image to protect the delicate sensibilities but trust me here) was
    “Don’t be stupid, be a smartie, come and join the Nazi Party.”
    The law calls for intent to bother people. A literal Mel Brooks quote and no further evidence of malice suggests that if this kid can afford a lawyer and gets one of the eight or nine American judges who actually care about law, he walks. Recent American legal history suggests they will throw the book at him and then try to drug him in prison.
    —-
    And a few days ago, near the same Pittsburgh synagogue that got shot up, someone left laughable facsimiles of Klan recruitment flyers in plastic baggies of bird seed.

  151. @Jack Hanson

    “come 2020 journalists are going to “discover” the southwest border is mostly vehicle barrier or barbed wire fence and are gonna blast pictures of it across the media”

    Maybe, but they’ll have to be careful how they do it. Even the tiny journalistic niche controlled by Never Trumpers will see no benefit, and the vastly larger Dem propaganda wing won’t want to make like, ‘see, we stopped Trump from building the wall so many Americans want.’ It implies the wall was rightfully Trump’s to build, so most will have to stick to Wall Bad.

    Unfortunately, Trump can waffle a long way on this. It may take open revolt in the base to force a change. The campaign begins soon and sometime in 2019, Trump will start campaign-style rallies. What I’d like to see then, is open, largescale booing when he goes on about the wall. That might force him to get creative about it, to somehow circumvent the Dem house majority between now and January 2021 – that’s over a half a term away: a lot of time and if he could pull it off it might just get him re-elected.

  152. Anonym says:
    @clyde

    Yet were you to cite such figures to SJWs you’ll get abused as a racist and a hater. And that’s what I dislike about them. They know the inevitable catastrophic result of their demands yet they refuse to acknowledge them, instead preening and virtue-signalling on the high moral ground. Disgusting people.

  153. Trump should do a government shutdown as payback to the RINOs and Never-Trumpers for screwing him by their relative inaction on his agenda for the past two years. The cover story will of course be that it is aimed at bringing the Dems to the table.

  154. clyde says:
    @anon

    Which is why the zip codes around DC are among the most affluent in the nation, rivaling only Silicon Valley and Wall Street bedroom communities.

    Those zip codes are so fat and loaded with Federal worker and Federal contractor money, that the Federal blacks have their own black county. Prince Georges in Virginia iirc.

  155. clyde says:
    @larry lurker

    This was Trump gold. Trump comedy gold. Schumer’s body language was submissive and hilarious. He could not look at Trump’s face or eyes while Trump was slamming him and Nancy for not caring about border security. They walked right into Trump’s tap……. S and N thought this would be a closed door meeting…. That when finished they could go outside and lie their asses off to the awaiting TV cameras and the media is general. Which is what they always do.
    Advantage — Live and televised Donald TRUMP!

  156. Amon says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Nice, you have zero argument so you just make up something fancy to cover your behind.

    But you are right, MAGA has been great for three groups.

    1: Jews/Israel.
    2: The military industrial complex.
    3: Communists.

  157. @Tyrion 2

    Yes, Where the [email protected] is that Executive Order on “birthright citizenship” he was promising before the midterms?

    Maybe if he had issued it before Nov. 6 he would’ve retained more seats in the House.
    Just issue the damn thing and let the chip fall where they may, the braindead losers in Congress aren’t going to tackle these issues. What’s the worst that can happen with more EOs regarding immigration?? Some circuit court ‘judge’ in HI will probably issue an injunction, the 9th Circus will concur, and then it’ll maybe work its way up to SCOTUS and there’s a good chance Ruth Bader Ginsberg will have finally keeled over by then, increasing the odds of it being upheld.

    Trump should take the “scorrched earth” strategy on immigration going forward since Congress is hopeless (even when controlled by Repubs)- just like Trump the campaigner did.

  158. @Lot

    yes, why no EO putting an ‘indefinite’ halt to the Diversity Visa lottery? Should’ve been done the day after SCOTUS upheld the so-called “travel ban.”

  159. Anonymous[329] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s really time to let the others to fully enjoy all the benefits from Invade/ Invite scheme.

    Therefore, bored identity would like to introduce MAGA Samson Option™ as a modest art of deal proposal for which none of Uniparty Caucus members could not be able to make any valid argument for refusal;

    Trump:

    “So, you ‘re willing to give me only lousy $2 000 000 000 – because the experts say The Beautiful Wall won’t be efficient – although you also claim that the border security is your top priority?!”

    “Fine.”

    “Let me first talk for a second with my Mi Frontera Es Tu Frontera team of advisors, Judge Dread and Jack D…”

    One second later:

    “I’ll take it, and, instead building The Beautiful Wall, I’m gonna use a half of that moola to order 5,000 of LAWs obeying Deadly Wim
    min *

    Deadly Wimmin straight from Our’s -Only-Remaining-Reliable-Ally”

    “Oh, almost forgot, remaining one billion dollars will be used on Beautiful Pillboxes and human-in-the-loop training on Unbelivable Katlanit* (קטלנית) and Amazing Roeh-Yoreh systems.”

    “Questions?”

  160. @Prof. Woland

    I like that, a Trump Wall Gofundme. I can only imagine the wailing and sobbing from CNN and the NY Times. How dare he…cheapening the office…panhandling like a common beggar…threat to democracy vol. 3942. Now that would make America great again.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
  161. @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    His point is rather “If you cannot do anything I want, nothing you do is good or useful.”

    While a selfish sentiment by itself, and not necessarily so, in this case the thing the speaker wants is for the object of his derision to fulfill his promises (or at least try to) and make some minimal effort to prevent the irrevocable destruction of the speaker’s nation. Thus, it’s not a fallacious nor even especially selfish sentiment. It is, however, better as elegy than exhortation; better a regret than a hope, because the U.S.A. no longer exists, has not for some time, and never will again. The destruction everyone is so laudably eager to delay or prevent is a fiat accompli.

  162. @clyde

    Shhh. Stop paying attention to actual races: they are all “Hispanic” and “Latino” because The News says so.

  163. It’s really time to let our new overlords to fully enjoy all the benefits from Invade/ Invite scheme.

    bored identity would like to introduce MAGA Samson Option™ – as a modest art of deal proposal for which none of Uniparty Caucus members would be able to make any valid argument for a refusal;

    Trump is addressing The Congress :

    “So, you ‘re willing to give me only lousy $2 000 000 000 – because the experts say The Beautiful Wall won’t be efficient – although you also claim that the border security is your top priority?!”

    “Fine.”

    “Let me first talk for a second with my Mi Frontera Es Tu Frontera team of advisers, Honorable Judge Dread and Suprahuman Rights Advocate Jack D…”

    One second later:

    “I’ll take it, and, instead building The Beautiful Wall, I’m gonna use a half of that moola to order myself some 5,000 of LAWs obeying
    Deadly Wimmin*
    :

    https://www.wired.com/2007/06/for-years-and-y/

    “Oh, almost forgot, remaining one billion dollars will be used on The Even More Beautiful Pillboxes and human-in-the-loop training on The Unbelievable Katlanit* (קטלנית) and The Amazing Roeh-Yoreh systems.”

    “Questions?”

  164. The sheer existence of this pompeous idiocrat in the President’s Cabinet proves that Trump’s Guberment is already STFU DOWN beyond any chance of recovery:

    #Russia’s government has sent bombers halfway around the world to #Venezuela.
    The Russian and Venezuelan people should see this for what it is: two corrupt governments squandering public funds, and squelching liberty and freedom while their people suffer.

    pic.twitter.com/bCBGbGtaHT

    — Secretary Pompeo (@SecPompeo) December 11, 2018

    For the record, bored identity is enticed by the notion that, one day in the future, sending bombers halfway around the world by the corrupt government squandering public funds, and squelching liberty and freedom while its people suffer would be something used uniquely and rightly so, to designate all the dreadfulness of some United Russiazuelan regime:

    pic.twitter.com/IQqYYpSZKA

    https://twitter.com/BronzeAgeChad/status/1071224009973481473/photo/1

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2018/12/10/carlson-kobach-2024/

    • Replies: @Precious
  165. Rosie says:
    @Hockamaw

    I’m just about as orthodox a Trumper as you will find, and even I have been feeling this generalized malaise with his ineffectual antics lately. If I’m feeling like this, I have to believe that everyone is feeling it to one degree or another. The guy is finished.

    I tend to agree. It’s really sad, but he just never had the resolve to do what was necessary – drain the swamp.

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
  166. notanon says:
    @dfordoom

    Unless you win the battle of ideas over immigration any talk of a Wall is futile.

    the battle of ideas is happening because of the battle over the wall

  167. notanon says:
    @dfordoom

    People under 40 are simply not capable of having negative thoughts about immigration.

    nonsense

  168. notanon says:
    @Precious

    this is actually the key point – the bad guys have made it clear they are going to go after his family too as a lesson to any future populists.

    whatever his original intentions he crossed the Rubicon and has to win.

    • Agree: Rosie
    • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
  169. Precious says:
    @bored identity

    The sheer existence of this pompeous idiocrat in the President’s Cabinet proves that Trump’s Guberment is already STFU DOWN beyond any chance of recovery

    Congratulations, you are the 10,000th person to announce that Trump’s presidential campaign/presidential term is officially beyond any chance of recovery and that we have reached the beginning of the end.

    You win a Trump hat.

  170. @Rosie

    To be fair, one doesn’t have to look far to see comfortable Boomers terrified of anything that threatens their reverse mortgage payments.

    Trump isn’t any of the Boomers here tho, so we will see what happens in the next two years. He has surprised me before.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  171. @dfordoom

    That’s not true at all, if anything young conservatives in canada are far more anti immigrant than their parents and grandparents.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  172. @Hockamaw

    Yeah he’s losing his mojo.

    Reminds me of Connor McGregor. A cocky and wild *winner* is feared and respected. But once he stops winning, he quickly becomes a clown.

    Trump is done and he’s failed us. He was our best option, but now it’s time to prepare for when they come after us.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  173. @notanon

    Yup, he’s in high gear and can’t slow down. He has to win in 2020. Unfortunately it seems like his tank is running out of gas.

    The election fraud in Arizona, Florida, and California (and elsewhere) is sending him the message that he’s going to lose no matter how Americans vote.

    Anyways, he has to go scorched earth or he’s done, and so are all his family and associates. Good luck Mr. Trump!

  174. Lot says:
    @Jack Hanson

    I agree with Roberts that the ACA doesn’t violate the Constitution.

    I am not 100% he’s with me on immigration issues, but the travel ban order was a good sign. He has a little bit if Kennedy’s squishyness, but a lot less.

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
  175. @Lot

    Okay you’re doing your shapeshifting to resist admitting you were wrong.

    In what world is Roberts argument saving O-Care not an example of Talmudic arguing black into white? I get that has an ethnic resonance for you, but in reality it was Roberts massaging law to save the ACA.

  176. dfordoom says: • Website
    @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    That’s not true at all, if anything young conservatives in canada are far more anti immigrant than their parents and grandparents.

    And how many of these young conservatives are there?

    You have to remember that while there might be a handful of young people espousing such views on the internet that says nothing about the views of the majority. It’s not a representative sample. It’s anecdotal evidence.

    If there really were hordes of based young conservatives out there we wouldn’t be in this mess.

  177. Lagertha says:
    @Bragadocious

    well, he could pull the same move as Christine Blaaahzie Ford did (the GoFundMe stuff), and she was a disgusting phony who tried to take a Supreme Court candidate (and destroy his family) out by lying – this was a big mistake for Democrats. I hope Trump brings this up over and over again on the campaign trail. The Wall can totally be built.

    OT: Finland has had an awesome wall since after WW2. It is only loosely guarded in Lapland (must let reindeer roam unimpeded) and surprise!, this is where the traffickers bring up MENA migrants. Most of the Finnish “wall” is guarded by armed army guys in towers, kid you not. It is essentially, 3 parts: a fence on the Finnish side, a very wide barrier and another fence on the Russian border.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/katebubacz/this-is-what-its-like-to-live-on-the-russian-border

  178. @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Trump is less that we would like to see, but more that we could have hoped for ten years ago.

    That’s a good summing up, and he’s more than we could have hoped for five years ago. I hope the way of the world isn’t that he will fail, but even if he does go down to some heroic defeat, in the long run it could ultimately play a necessary role in our recovery, if we are to have one. He may only be the beginning of it all, the one to start the conversation rather than achieve objectives, as Tucker Carlson recently said he’s resigned himself to believing.

  179. Rosie says:
    @Jack Hanson

    To be fair, one doesn’t have to look far to see comfortable Boomers terrified of anything that threatens their reverse mortgage payments.

    So true.

    What makes me sad about Trump is that I really believe he meant well. Being magnanimous in victory works sometimes, doesn’t it? I think I will always love Trump. Two years ago, I loved him like a Father. Now, I love him like a Grandfather.

  180. @Amon

    Nice, you have zero argument so you just make up something fancy to cover your behind.

    Actually, my argument is clear to even the uninterested. You want utopia. Trump deals with the real world. You claim if Trump doesn’t achieve utopia everything he has done is a failure.

    You might try to offer a counter-argument. But your response post makes it look like you are unable to do so.

    • Replies: @Amon
  181. @Autochthon

    His point is rather “If you cannot do anything I want, nothing you do is good or useful.”

    Really? Cannot do anything? To make that claim you must compare Trump to Hillary. And the notion that Trump is equivalent to Hillary is absurd.

    The fact that Trump even brought up immigration as a problem in the first place contradicts the “anything” claim.

    Our “friend” Amon is one of the following (1) a troll, (2) ignorant of the facts, or (3) too stupid to process current events.

    I do not blame anyone for being stupid. I do object to stupid people siphoning off morale.

    Amon is, in the worst case, siphoning off morale we need to get an immigration moratorium. In the best case Amon is noise.

  182. To make that claim you must compare Trump to Hillary.

    How do you reckon?

    [T]he notion that Trump is equivalent to Hillary is absurd.

    It would indeed be absurd; but one reason I do not hold this notion.

    [T]hat Trump even brought up immigration as a problem in the first place contradicts the “anything” claim.

    Merely mentioning a problem does nothing to alleviate it.

    Our “friend” Amon is one of the following (1) a troll, (2) ignorant of the facts, or (3) too stupid to process current events.

    We’ve no basis to claim any insight about an anonymous commenter’s motivations, knowledge, or intelligence.

    I do not blame anyone for being stupid. I do object to stupid people siphoning off morale.

    That horse left the barn long ago for many if not most of who voted for Donald Trump. In any event, at a certain point, noting that an elected leader is ineffectual is less about harming morale and more about ensuring accountability.

    Amon is, in the worst case, siphoning off morale we need to get an immigration moratorium. In the best case Amon is noise.

    Donald Trump has no interest or desire in a moratorium on immigration; he has never – and will never , to judge by his own words and deeds – support anything like it. No army of cheerleaders or doomsayers would change the fact.

  183. Anonymous[216] • Disclaimer says:
    @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    How much dynamism do you expect from a guy in his 70s? All this should have been done a decade+ ago.

  184. Amon says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Trump has done plenty of things, just not what promised.

    He’s increased military spending to absurd levels while ignoring the rebuild America promise. He’s been talking about putting boots on the ground in Venezuela and constantly lash out at Iran while refusing to withdraw from Syria

    His job plan is a redress of the Obama plan where umemplyoed are removed from the list after two years to deflate numbers and all jobs created by US companies are counted despite most of them being outside the US.

    He keeps engaging in actions that push the US and Russia apart while he ran on a campaign that promised to make peace with them.

    Build the wall/drain the swamp. He employeed the swamp and then whines when they refuse to help build the wall with US tax payer funds. Wasn’t Mexico going to pay for it?

    Point is, I want Trump to do what he promised and not what the swamp he choose to employ says he should do.

    Oh what the hell am I doing, you’re a Trump cheerleader.

    You are as blind as the Obama voters who got seduced by promises of hope and change, only to get betrayed when he jumped into bed with the very people he said he was against doing his campaign.

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