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Should False Flag Hate Hoaxes be Prosecuted as Hate Crimes?
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The large number of fraudulent false flag hate incidents in the news over the last 30 years, which have perhaps crested since the rise of Trump, needs to be combatted on several levels:

1. Raising awareness that Hate Hoaxes are a Thing, a conceptual category that you need to keep in mind when following the news.

2. Shaming the media when it once again credulously falls for yet another Hate Hoax.

3. Demanding institutional punishment, such as expulsion of students who perpetrate false flag hate hoaxes.

4. Prosecuting / punishing for crimes committed, such as vandalism, filing false insurance claims, lying to authorities, etc.

One further question is whether hate crime enhancements should be added to charges.

For example, if you spraypaint “Kilroy was here” on the side of a random wall that doesn’t belong to you, that’s a crime, but not a huge one. On the other hand, if you spraypaint a swastika on the side of a synagogue, hate crime enhancements kick in and you are in bigger trouble with the law.

Many have long argued that hate crime enhancements are a bad idea. But they have generally not won that debate. That being so, shouldn’t false flag hate hoaxes be subject to hate crime laws since a major purpose and/or effect of the action is to inculcate hatred of a particular group, such as whites?

 
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  1. Yes

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    • Agree: Opinionator
    • Replies: @Dr. X
    Yes, hoaxes perpetrated by minorities should be prosecuted as anti-white hate crimes.
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  2. RW says:

    Anyone know of a website that keeps track of all these hate hoaxes?

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    • Replies: @Bill P
    This guy has been keeping track for decades, but I'm not sure he has the time or energy required to keep up with the latest developments.
    , @Diversity Is Wrong
    Probably not all, but there is a fair number here -- http://fakehatecrimes.org/
    , @Drake
    http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/

    and

    https://www.reddit.com/r/HateCrimeHoaxes/
    , @Dissident
    I mentioned three such sites that I had recently discovered in this comment of mine from last month:

    http://narrative-collapse.com/
    http://fakehatecrimes.org/
    https://www.reddit.com/r/HateCrimeHoaxes/

    Here is one paragraph from that past comment of mine, the entirety of which seems no less germane here than in the thread I had posted it to:

    But consider how the “massive increase in ‘hate crimes’ since the election” narrative continues to be perpetuated even as case after case of alleged and hyped incidents are revealed as hoaxes. At the rate things have been going, it seems the SJWs will continue using this increasingly discredited narrative to justify their jihad indefinitely.
     
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  3. reiner Tor says: • Website

    Yes, that’s a good idea. But a bad idea if your project is the dispossession of whites. So it won’t get implemented.

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  4. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Your suggestions are all great. A hate crime enhancement is probably a good idea, even though I generally dislike the idea of hate crimes, but these hoaxes increase hate and encourage expression of hate against certain groups or individuals, and that ought to be acknowledged and punished.

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    • Replies: @Cortes
    Agreed with one suggestion: that false flag hate hoaxes be considered as aggravating the original offence and the tariff of punishment be doubled.
    , @Prof. Woland
    For hate crime laws or enhanced penalties for a particular race or sex to be repealed, we will have to go through a period of giving the other side a taste of their own medicine. There are probably 100 x more fake domestic violence accusations than fake hate crimes but it hardly gets on the radar. Even the name VAWA tells you how slanted the laws are to begin with. As long as it is only men getting hauled off to jail, there is no problem. Once you start to see feminists-women-mothers getting carted off things will change.
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  5. Anon7 says:

    Not prosecuted, but compensatory community service should be required. For example, suppose a Jewish guy paints swastikas on Jewish cemetery headstones, and allows a week of fake news about it. He should be required to perform 300 hours of community service helping Nazi organizations plan marches, picnics, Führer birthday parties and so forth.

    Also, news organizations that fail to place a *this is tentatively labeled a hate crime, but keep in mind that 15% of reported hate crimes are hoaxes* tag on their material should be subject to community service interviews. For example, when a Muslim woman claims that a white racist bigot subhuman pulled her hijab off, was widely publicized and interviewed, but then turns out to have made it up, media outlets must put her on TV again, where she must provide equal length interviews, explaining what she did and apologizing to white people everywhere. In egregious cases, she must go into unsanitary roadhouses, honky tonks and dives, and personally apologize to exactly the sort of guys that think sometimes about maybe yanking off a hijab or two, but have never done so out of a sort of basic human decency which is seldom celebrated.

    Of course, non-citizen hate crime perps should get on Trump’s “bad hombre” list, and be sent home.

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    • Replies: @Stan Adams

    He should be required to perform 300 hours of community service helping Nazi organizations plan marches, picnics, Führer birthday parties and so forth.
     
    Huh.

    Do Nazis do lots of recruiting among potheads?

    "In the Aryan Brotherhood, every day is 4/20."
    , @Harry Baldwin
    *this is tentatively labeled a hate crime, but keep in mind that 15% of reported hate crimes are hoaxes*

    Don't you mean 95%?

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  6. Bill P says:

    There’s good precedent for adding an enhancement in Wisconsin v. Mitchell.

    The Supreme Court unanimously upheld a Wisconsin state statute that allowed for enhanced sentences for racially motivated crimes finding that because a racial motive can be more damaging to communities than crimes based on other motives, longer sentences can be justified. Todd Mitchell led an assault by a group of black youths on a white boy after stating he wanted to ‘move on some white people’. Mitchell was convicted of aggravated battery and given an enhanced sentence, pursuant to a Wisconsin Statute, because he had intentionally selected his victim on the basis of the boy’s race. Mitchell argued that the statute violated his First Amendment rights by punishing his thought, that it was too broad and would have a chilling effect on speech. The Court rejected his argument, finding that the Wisconsin statute was in line with established anti-discrimination laws, was suitably narrow, and only related to the sentencing of his criminal act and therefore did not violate Mitchell’s First Amendment rights. The Court reasoned that enhanced sentences are lawful because they punish the perpetrator for the criminal activity which damaged the victim communities rather than the discriminatory thoughts that motivated them.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    This is the case the SPLC always brings up when you point out that hate-crime statutes appear to be meant just for whites. I think it was just a smoke screen.

    Convicted murderess Gwendolyn Hoyt's lawyers argued before SCOTUS in 1961 that Florida's pro-choice stance toward women's jury service led to an unfairly chosen jury; they lost.

    Thirteen years later, a man who kidnapped a woman in Louisiana and was tried under a nearly identical law (actually a constitutional provision there) managed to get it overturned.

    https://www.oyez.org/cases/1961/31
    https://www.oyez.org/cases/1974/73-5744

    So women were forced onto juries by vacating a male-on-female criminal conviction, rather than a female-on-male one.
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  7. Anonym says:

    That’s a great idea Steve. Very methodical, comprehensive and Alinskyite of you. Nice work. I love how we are continuously developing a counter-revolution to the Frankfurt School here and elsewhere. This idea will be picked up by others and run with. Coulter, Milo, College Republicans, Trump, Sessions, Miller: read and take note. We are beginning to believe.

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    • Agree: BenKenobi, Autochthon
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  8. Bill P says:
    @RW
    Anyone know of a website that keeps track of all these hate hoaxes?

    This guy has been keeping track for decades, but I’m not sure he has the time or energy required to keep up with the latest developments.

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  9. “That being so, shouldn’t false flag hate hoaxes be subject to hate crime laws since a major purpose and/or effect of the action is to inculcate hatred of a particular group, such as whites?”

    Absolutely yes. I’ve written much the same in the past.

    The question is, in such an environment as we find ourselves in, where people are tripping over themselves to fall for these hoaxes, how do we get them to understand this?

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  10. @RW
    Anyone know of a website that keeps track of all these hate hoaxes?

    Probably not all, but there is a fair number here — http://fakehatecrimes.org/

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  11. Drake says:
    @RW
    Anyone know of a website that keeps track of all these hate hoaxes?
    Read More
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  12. Dissident says:
    @RW
    Anyone know of a website that keeps track of all these hate hoaxes?

    I mentioned three such sites that I had recently discovered in this comment of mine from last month:

    http://narrative-collapse.com/

    http://fakehatecrimes.org/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/HateCrimeHoaxes/

    Here is one paragraph from that past comment of mine, the entirety of which seems no less germane here than in the thread I had posted it to:

    But consider how the “massive increase in ‘hate crimes’ since the election” narrative continues to be perpetuated even as case after case of alleged and hyped incidents are revealed as hoaxes. At the rate things have been going, it seems the SJWs will continue using this increasingly discredited narrative to justify their jihad indefinitely.

    Read More
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  13. I recall, long before any of the current jurisprudence related to capital cases was in place, that some jurisdictions had a statutory provision that perjury in a capital case, if it led to the conviction of a person later shown to be innocent, would itself be treated as a capital crime. This seemed to me to treat the offender both fairly and with harshness appropriate to the gravity of his offense.

    “Hate hoaxes” aren’t now regarded even as seriously as turning in false fire alarms, yet they are more akin to the phenomenon occasionally observed of the fireman who commits arson in order that he might later be treated as a hero for putting out the fire. Such malefactors deserve punishment of exemplary severity.

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    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    Getting caught perjuring someone who is falsely accused or convicted of a crime should be like getting caught knocking in gin rummy. You get 5 points plus what ever the other guy had in his hand.
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  14. Tulip says:

    Question: Should we call it the “blood libel” or the “blood hoax”? Should we call it a “Goy libel” or an “Anti-Semitic Hoax”?

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    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Jews have a guard/attack dog with the Anti-Defamation League. The ADL’s current stated mission is

    To stop the defamation of the Jewish people, and to secure justice and fair treatment to all.
     
    Seems like the ADL is dropping the ball on the latter. Therefore, whites should have their own counterpart.

    I suggest the AADL. Aryan Anti-Defamation League. The AADL will publicize and fight against anti-white hate crimes and defamation. Cribbed from the ADL’s “What We Do” (with substitutions in brackets), here’s the mission statement:

    In [2017], [AADL] was founded on [Aryan] values that inform our work, how we operate and the changes we seek in the world. It has always meant stopping anti-[Aryanism] and defending the [Aryan] people. Today, it also means fighting threats to our very democracy, including cyberhate, bullying, bias in schools and in the criminal justice system, terrorism, hate crimes, coercion of religious [majorities], and contempt for anyone who is [normal].
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  15. Many have long argued that hate crime enhancements are a bad idea. But they have generally not won that debate. That being so, shouldn’t false flag hate hoaxes be subject to hate crime laws since a major purpose and/or effect of the action is to inculcate hatred of a particular group, such as whites?

    I’d vote no. I’m still hopeful that hate-crime laws will someday be held unconstitutional, and that’s much less likely to happen if all parts of the political spectrum start using them as a sword.

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  16. Josh says:

    What’s the point of making logical arguments about the way things should be?

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  17. I’d say that hate crime hoaxes are far more damaging than so called hate crimes themselves. So called hate crimes usually break down into A hating B and expressing this in the form of vandalism. A hate crime hoax is more serious because it is an act perpetrated by C for the purpose of engendering social discord between A and B. I think the law should assume malice on the part of hate crime hoaxers. It’s incitement.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "I’d say that hate crime hoaxes are far more damaging than so called hate crimes themselves. So called hate crimes usually break down into A hating B and expressing this in the form of vandalism. A hate crime hoax is more serious because it is an act perpetrated by C for the purpose of engendering social discord between A and B. I think the law should assume malice on the part of hate crime hoaxers. It’s incitement."

    Hate hoaxes are the equivalent falsely yelling fire in a crowded theatre. Mark my words, hate hoaxes are eventually going to get innocent people killed if harsher laws against it are not passed in Washington.
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  18. Achilles says:

    Hate crimes need to be ruled unconstitutional and any precedents upholding them overturned.

    If, under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, the government cannot imprison a white person for holding the opinion that, say, blacks are stupid, violent and worthless or imprison a black person for holding the opinion that, say, whites are evil, cracker, ice people then neither can the government impose an increased criminal penalty because that person committed a crime motivated by a constitutionally-protected opinion.

    That we have such laws and a government-media complex intent on selectively applying such laws only against their enemy interest-groups and in favor of their constituent interest-groups is purely an exercise of lawless power in spite of the principles of the rule of law not men and of equal protection under the law.

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    • Replies: @PSR
    Achilles - very well stated.
    , @oddsbodkins
    I think you are wrong. The constitution protects freedom of thought, but that doesn't mean you can't consider motives in crimes. Premeditative thought is the primary difference between first and second degree murder.

    Plenty of problems with hate crime laws, but the 1st amendment isn't one of them.

    https://lawreviewdrake.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/irvol59-1_quill.pdf
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  19. Yak-15 says:

    If someone wrote “Kilroy was here” and drew the little guy along with it, I imagine it would be confused as a hate crime. The standard SJW would probably assume it was a symbol harkening to white dominated America. In fact, I am going to try it out at my alma mater in a few weeks. Let’s see what happens!

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  20. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    More evidence that Trump’s presidential campaign was one giant false flag hoax:

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/05/12/trump-backslides-legal-immigration-curbs/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    You'd think Bannon would explain all this to Trump. Or that Trump would listen or care; perhaps both arr laughing into their sleeves....

    Well, Jack Hanson will be along shortly to insult you; I'm going to get my watch ready, because I set it bu his punctual castigations of ordinary Joes like us who dare to notice things....
    , @Lot
    I am disappointed too, but there are still major positive consequences to even the current sell-out version of Trump:

    1. If Hillary filled Scalia's seat, Obama's second and much larger executive amnesty would be upheld, with a result that the third-world origin population of the US would go up by 25 million or more. The smaller DACA amnesty Trump is keeping is only about 1/8 as large and involves many sympathetic cases.

    2. We have about a week to go to find out of Trump will be keeping Haiti on the TPS list. If he doesn't, thousands of illegal Haitians will lose their work permits and become immediately deportable. Other illegal Haitians will lose a powerful defense to delay or prevent their deportation, creating a situation where ICE does not even try to deport non-criminal Haitian illegals.

    I'd roughly estimate the illegal Haitian population could fall as much as 10% per year for several years if Trump simply does nothing and let Haiti's endlessly renewed TPS certification expire. (Nobody responded when I asked for predictions if Trump will affirmatively sell out by filing a TPS renewal notice for Haiti. Kind of depressing but on this complete no-brainer where we just need Trump to do nothing, I feel like Trump might still screw us.)

    3. We had a few precious days in which no entry visas were issued to nationals of seven of the worst Muslim countries who lacked green cards. Some could not afford to rebook their flight and travel. Within the next three months, the Supreme Court could bring back the executive order. Even with Trump's order blocked, our embassy staff and border control people know what the new boss's policy is and can implement it in subtle and unofficial ways the district judge in Hawaii lacks the resources to stop. Team Islam has provided some specific, heartwarming examples of this happening.

    4. Trump cut the official refugee admissions number the president sets every year from Obama's 86,000 to 50,000. This is the program covered by Ann Corcoran's Refugee Resettlement Watch.
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  21. tyrone says:

    what about the money damages,class stoppage ,wasting police time etc.

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  22. @Anon7
    Not prosecuted, but compensatory community service should be required. For example, suppose a Jewish guy paints swastikas on Jewish cemetery headstones, and allows a week of fake news about it. He should be required to perform 300 hours of community service helping Nazi organizations plan marches, picnics, Führer birthday parties and so forth.

    Also, news organizations that fail to place a *this is tentatively labeled a hate crime, but keep in mind that 15% of reported hate crimes are hoaxes* tag on their material should be subject to community service interviews. For example, when a Muslim woman claims that a white racist bigot subhuman pulled her hijab off, was widely publicized and interviewed, but then turns out to have made it up, media outlets must put her on TV again, where she must provide equal length interviews, explaining what she did and apologizing to white people everywhere. In egregious cases, she must go into unsanitary roadhouses, honky tonks and dives, and personally apologize to exactly the sort of guys that think sometimes about maybe yanking off a hijab or two, but have never done so out of a sort of basic human decency which is seldom celebrated.

    Of course, non-citizen hate crime perps should get on Trump's "bad hombre" list, and be sent home.

    He should be required to perform 300 hours of community service helping Nazi organizations plan marches, picnics, Führer birthday parties and so forth.

    Huh.

    Do Nazis do lots of recruiting among potheads?

    “In the Aryan Brotherhood, every day is 4/20.”

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  23. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    When you let a sh*tbag like Gary Cohn direct your economic policy … it’s a sure thing that flyover country and Main Street are going to suffer.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/05/12/trump-backslides-legal-immigration-curbs/

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  24. Ganderson says:

    So here’s my question- I was discussing the St. Olaf hate-hoax with my wife, who works at a prestigious New England college, and thus has some SJW tendencies. Her position is that my position that they are all hoaxes is wrong and that some of the incidents are real. I don’t think so, but is anyone aware of a real anti non-white hate crime lately?

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    There are some. I can recall a few years ago a case of a bunch of white teens out looking for trouble who wound up murdering a black man they didn't know (who may have been gay -- that sounded like more the driving impetus). The perps were rapidly arrested, charged, and convicted. It got some news coverage, but there wasn't much controversy since the justice system worked smoothly.
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  25. anon says: • Disclaimer

    No. Only whites are capable of hate. Ipso facto, hoaxers are incapable of hate. Ergo, no hate crime.

    LOGICKED!

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  26. MikeJa says:

    Yes. I don’t know why they aren’t already. The logic behind designating some crimes hate crimes is they have an out of proportion effect on a community. I agree with that argument but I don’t see why hate hoaxes don’t have the same effect.

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  27. Vasilis says:

    Such hoaxes are the worse hate crimes imaginable. Actually hoaxes are more harmful than the real thing, since they manage to target various groups simultaneously:

    1. Members of the group that appear to be targeted feel threatened, when actually they are not. If you are a black person and you hear of actions against your group you do feel threatened.

    2. Members of other groups are victimized when they are perceived as possible perpetrators and this mostly victimizes whites.

    3. People of all groups who honestly wish to fight discrimination suffer collateral damage, as they may end up being perceived as possible hoaxers.

    4. Institutional reaction to racism is ridiculed when it is established that it may be easily fooled by a hoax.

    5. The legal system is overwhelmed by the need to counter two different things that seem identical, real racism and hoaxes.

    Hoaxes should be dealt with as an incitement to violence, that is what they are.

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    • Agree: utu
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  28. @Ganderson
    So here's my question- I was discussing the St. Olaf hate-hoax with my wife, who works at a prestigious New England college, and thus has some SJW tendencies. Her position is that my position that they are all hoaxes is wrong and that some of the incidents are real. I don't think so, but is anyone aware of a real anti non-white hate crime lately?

    There are some. I can recall a few years ago a case of a bunch of white teens out looking for trouble who wound up murdering a black man they didn’t know (who may have been gay — that sounded like more the driving impetus). The perps were rapidly arrested, charged, and convicted. It got some news coverage, but there wasn’t much controversy since the justice system worked smoothly.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe
    The question still in my mind is whether any of the incidents on these expensive private colleges have been real vs. hoax in the past 5 years or so.

    obviously none of the lame incidents that turned out to be hoaxes deserve much attention even if real as opposed to a heinous crime like murdering a stranger regardless of motive.
    , @RW
    Steve, it would be interesting to find what correlation exists between those rich colleges that have disinvited mostly conservative speakers, according to the Brookings research, and the prevalence of hate hoaxes.
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  29. Three black female students at the U of Albany claimed that they were harassed and attacked by white male students on a campus bound bus. One of the male students was so intimidated by the resultant protests and threats that he left campus. The university’s administration sided with the three blacks and disciplinary action was taken against some white students. Of course the whole campus came to a halt as protests and demands were issued. All this before an actual investigation of the event. Turns out the campus bound bus had 10 or more video cameras. The girls were actually the instigators and aggressors. legal charges were filed and I think two were expelled and one suspended. The court also found the girls guilty of some of the charges. However, like the Duke rape case, once done somethings can’t be undone. Once you have caved to demands it is hard to stand tall.

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    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe
    This is why college admins are out of their element in dealing with these incidents. Their ineptitude also ensures they will continue to be plagued by them.
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  30. PSR says:
    @Achilles
    Hate crimes need to be ruled unconstitutional and any precedents upholding them overturned.

    If, under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, the government cannot imprison a white person for holding the opinion that, say, blacks are stupid, violent and worthless or imprison a black person for holding the opinion that, say, whites are evil, cracker, ice people then neither can the government impose an increased criminal penalty because that person committed a crime motivated by a constitutionally-protected opinion.

    That we have such laws and a government-media complex intent on selectively applying such laws only against their enemy interest-groups and in favor of their constituent interest-groups is purely an exercise of lawless power in spite of the principles of the rule of law not men and of equal protection under the law.

    Achilles – very well stated.

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  31. Jefferson Beauregard should use good old ” Won’t somebody please think of the children?!” tactics to invigorate Nice White People.

    Already existing SCOTUS’ classic hit * could be conveniently paraphrased by Sessions’ DoJ:

    “Falsely shouting ‘Rajsis’ on a crowded campus” is not protected by First Amendment !”

    * The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic.

    The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent.

    So, again, why Sessions should start to indiscriminately prosecute Faux Hate Crimes?

    “Because Safety of All Our Children is Sacred!”

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  32. Moshe says:

    Unless there’s a major movement that neess to be stopped in its tracks, I think the hatecrime concept is a bad one.

    As for whether the perpetrator should be punished for what she tried to get others punished for, this isn’t completely analogous but ancient Jewish Law has the concept of Eidim Zoimemim.

    That is, witnesses for the prosecution who were found to false witnesses get the EXACT punishment that they sought to inflict on another.

    It’s a pretty good law.

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  33. @Tulip
    Question: Should we call it the "blood libel" or the "blood hoax"? Should we call it a "Goy libel" or an "Anti-Semitic Hoax"?

    Jews have a guard/attack dog with the Anti-Defamation League. The ADL’s current stated mission is

    To stop the defamation of the Jewish people, and to secure justice and fair treatment to all.

    Seems like the ADL is dropping the ball on the latter. Therefore, whites should have their own counterpart.

    I suggest the AADL. Aryan Anti-Defamation League. The AADL will publicize and fight against anti-white hate crimes and defamation. Cribbed from the ADL’s “What We Do” (with substitutions in brackets), here’s the mission statement:

    In [2017], [AADL] was founded on [Aryan] values that inform our work, how we operate and the changes we seek in the world. It has always meant stopping anti-[Aryanism] and defending the [Aryan] people. Today, it also means fighting threats to our very democracy, including cyberhate, bullying, bias in schools and in the criminal justice system, terrorism, hate crimes, coercion of religious [majorities], and contempt for anyone who is [normal].

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    • Replies: @bored identity
    There is a reason that Erijen rhymes with Alien.


    You do know that millions of of Punjabi mongrels also prefer to think of themselves as being honorary
    members of Erijen Notion?


    I would rather have a sweet headache with cosmopoliethnocentric escapades of all three members of NY Safran Brigade ( Franklin, Jonathan, and Joshua) than have to deal, or - Vishnu forbid - be in any way associated, with Indian Saffron Brigades.

    Any given day.


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffron_terror#1999_Burning_alive_of_Australian_Christian_missionary_and_his_children:_Graham_Staines


    Why not stick with a Citizenism, Jennerick?
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  34. Read More
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  35. @Anon7
    Not prosecuted, but compensatory community service should be required. For example, suppose a Jewish guy paints swastikas on Jewish cemetery headstones, and allows a week of fake news about it. He should be required to perform 300 hours of community service helping Nazi organizations plan marches, picnics, Führer birthday parties and so forth.

    Also, news organizations that fail to place a *this is tentatively labeled a hate crime, but keep in mind that 15% of reported hate crimes are hoaxes* tag on their material should be subject to community service interviews. For example, when a Muslim woman claims that a white racist bigot subhuman pulled her hijab off, was widely publicized and interviewed, but then turns out to have made it up, media outlets must put her on TV again, where she must provide equal length interviews, explaining what she did and apologizing to white people everywhere. In egregious cases, she must go into unsanitary roadhouses, honky tonks and dives, and personally apologize to exactly the sort of guys that think sometimes about maybe yanking off a hijab or two, but have never done so out of a sort of basic human decency which is seldom celebrated.

    Of course, non-citizen hate crime perps should get on Trump's "bad hombre" list, and be sent home.

    *this is tentatively labeled a hate crime, but keep in mind that 15% of reported hate crimes are hoaxes*

    Don’t you mean 95%?

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    The stats we really need are something like:
    1. % resolved as a hoax
    2. % resolved as real
    3. % unresolved

    1. and 2. should also include the outcome for the perpetrator(s).

    I would say 3. is the largest category and the important question is how it distributes between 1. and 2. Perhaps best estimated by comparing the proportion of 1. to 2.
    , @Anon7
    I made up that number, but picked it as similar to a reasonable guess at the percentage of rape accusations that turn out to be false. It's hard to know what can't be known. And it would be better for news agencies to report at least that some percentage of hate crimes are hoaxes, even though the actual number can't be known. That would be progress in and of itself.
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  36. Wilkey says:

    Many have long argued that hate crime enhancements are a bad idea. But they have generally not won that debate.

    Good luck with that. In most jurisdictions you can’t even get them to to prosecute serious black-on-white hate crimes (murders, the numerous aggravated assaults with actual video footage, etc) as hate crimes. That’s a major reason why many of us oppose hate crimes laws in general.

    But prosecute hate hoaxes as hate crimes? “Why there wasn’t even a victim!” (Besides the truth, and besides the slew of institutional changes the hoaxers manage to extract.)

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  37. Yan Shen says:

    When in doubt about how to best govern, I always ask myself this. What would Lee Kuan Yew do?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    Finally a Yan Shen comment I can agree with.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    Cane them publicly.
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  38. @Achilles
    Hate crimes need to be ruled unconstitutional and any precedents upholding them overturned.

    If, under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, the government cannot imprison a white person for holding the opinion that, say, blacks are stupid, violent and worthless or imprison a black person for holding the opinion that, say, whites are evil, cracker, ice people then neither can the government impose an increased criminal penalty because that person committed a crime motivated by a constitutionally-protected opinion.

    That we have such laws and a government-media complex intent on selectively applying such laws only against their enemy interest-groups and in favor of their constituent interest-groups is purely an exercise of lawless power in spite of the principles of the rule of law not men and of equal protection under the law.

    I think you are wrong. The constitution protects freedom of thought, but that doesn’t mean you can’t consider motives in crimes. Premeditative thought is the primary difference between first and second degree murder.

    Plenty of problems with hate crime laws, but the 1st amendment isn’t one of them.

    https://lawreviewdrake.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/irvol59-1_quill.pdf

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    • Replies: @Achilles

    I think you are wrong. The constitution protects freedom of thought, but that doesn’t mean you can’t consider motives in crimes. Premeditative thought is the primary difference between first and second degree murder.
     
    Intent and motive are different concepts. For example, in homicide law, intent is an element of the crime, and premeditative intent typically distinguishes murder from lesser charges like manslaughter, as you point out. Homicides committed with premeditation, with reckless disregard for life or with criminal negligence are considered different crimes because the element of intent is different in each case.

    But that is different from motive. Historically our jurisprudence did not include motive as an actual element of homicide, except with respect to a defense of justification as for example self-defense or a military operation. Establishing a motive in a particular case may be important in convincing the fact-finder that the defendant committed the offense or had the level of intent required for the crime charged, but motive traditionally has not itself been an element of the crime.

    The notion that by law an offender who commits a premeditated homicide for the motive of say taking someone's cellphone should have a lesser penalty than an offender who commits a premeditated homicide for the motive of "bias" or "prejudice" defined by the state in circumstances where such "bias" or "prejudice" is otherwise constitutionally protected from being criminalized is relatively new to our laws.

    Even under our expansive federal civil rights laws, homicides are prosecuted under narrowly-crafted provisions outlawing conspiracies and actions taken for the purposes of depriving someone of the exercise of specific legal rights, and not because they were motivated generally by an opinion disapproved by the government.

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  39. For example, if you spraypaint “Kilroy was here” on the side of a random wall that doesn’t belong to you, that’s a crime, but not a huge one.

    It is if you’re a Kilroy:

    http://placesnamed.com/k/i/kilroy.asp

    http://forebears.co.uk/surnames/kilroy

    https://www.johngrenham.com/findasurname.php?surname=kilroy

    https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=kilroy

    http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/Map.aspx?name=KILROY&year=1998&altyear=1881&country=GB&type=name

    Also, it stereotypes those with long, large noses.

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  40. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Jews have a guard/attack dog with the Anti-Defamation League. The ADL’s current stated mission is

    To stop the defamation of the Jewish people, and to secure justice and fair treatment to all.
     
    Seems like the ADL is dropping the ball on the latter. Therefore, whites should have their own counterpart.

    I suggest the AADL. Aryan Anti-Defamation League. The AADL will publicize and fight against anti-white hate crimes and defamation. Cribbed from the ADL’s “What We Do” (with substitutions in brackets), here’s the mission statement:

    In [2017], [AADL] was founded on [Aryan] values that inform our work, how we operate and the changes we seek in the world. It has always meant stopping anti-[Aryanism] and defending the [Aryan] people. Today, it also means fighting threats to our very democracy, including cyberhate, bullying, bias in schools and in the criminal justice system, terrorism, hate crimes, coercion of religious [majorities], and contempt for anyone who is [normal].

    There is a reason that Erijen rhymes with Alien.

    You do know that millions of of Punjabi mongrels also prefer to think of themselves as being honorary
    members of Erijen Notion?

    I would rather have a sweet headache with cosmopoliethnocentric escapades of all three members of NY Safran Brigade ( Franklin, Jonathan, and Joshua) than have to deal, or – Vishnu forbid – be in any way associated, with Indian Saffron Brigades.

    Any given day.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffron_terror#1999_Burning_alive_of_Australian_Christian_missionary_and_his_children:_Graham_Staines

    Why not stick with a Citizenism, Jennerick?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    C’mon bored! This is your captain speaking. Obviously in this verboten context Aryan means white, as I stated. I guess it’s okay if one or two Persians slip through, provided their Bimmers are authentically Aryan. It’ll all be in the fine print.

    Why not stick with a Citizenism, Jennerick?
     
    It’s a defense league—all upstanding citizens should have no objection. ;)
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  41. Dr. X says:
    @Robert Hume
    Yes

    Yes, hoaxes perpetrated by minorities should be prosecuted as anti-white hate crimes.

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  42. @Bill P
    There's good precedent for adding an enhancement in Wisconsin v. Mitchell.


    The Supreme Court unanimously upheld a Wisconsin state statute that allowed for enhanced sentences for racially motivated crimes finding that because a racial motive can be more damaging to communities than crimes based on other motives, longer sentences can be justified. Todd Mitchell led an assault by a group of black youths on a white boy after stating he wanted to ‘move on some white people’. Mitchell was convicted of aggravated battery and given an enhanced sentence, pursuant to a Wisconsin Statute, because he had intentionally selected his victim on the basis of the boy’s race. Mitchell argued that the statute violated his First Amendment rights by punishing his thought, that it was too broad and would have a chilling effect on speech. The Court rejected his argument, finding that the Wisconsin statute was in line with established anti-discrimination laws, was suitably narrow, and only related to the sentencing of his criminal act and therefore did not violate Mitchell’s First Amendment rights. The Court reasoned that enhanced sentences are lawful because they punish the perpetrator for the criminal activity which damaged the victim communities rather than the discriminatory thoughts that motivated them.
     

    This is the case the SPLC always brings up when you point out that hate-crime statutes appear to be meant just for whites. I think it was just a smoke screen.

    Convicted murderess Gwendolyn Hoyt’s lawyers argued before SCOTUS in 1961 that Florida’s pro-choice stance toward women’s jury service led to an unfairly chosen jury; they lost.

    Thirteen years later, a man who kidnapped a woman in Louisiana and was tried under a nearly identical law (actually a constitutional provision there) managed to get it overturned.

    https://www.oyez.org/cases/1961/31

    https://www.oyez.org/cases/1974/73-5744

    So women were forced onto juries by vacating a male-on-female criminal conviction, rather than a female-on-male one.

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  43. res says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    *this is tentatively labeled a hate crime, but keep in mind that 15% of reported hate crimes are hoaxes*

    Don't you mean 95%?

    The stats we really need are something like:
    1. % resolved as a hoax
    2. % resolved as real
    3. % unresolved

    1. and 2. should also include the outcome for the perpetrator(s).

    I would say 3. is the largest category and the important question is how it distributes between 1. and 2. Perhaps best estimated by comparing the proportion of 1. to 2.

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  44. @Steve Sailer
    There are some. I can recall a few years ago a case of a bunch of white teens out looking for trouble who wound up murdering a black man they didn't know (who may have been gay -- that sounded like more the driving impetus). The perps were rapidly arrested, charged, and convicted. It got some news coverage, but there wasn't much controversy since the justice system worked smoothly.

    The question still in my mind is whether any of the incidents on these expensive private colleges have been real vs. hoax in the past 5 years or so.

    obviously none of the lame incidents that turned out to be hoaxes deserve much attention even if real as opposed to a heinous crime like murdering a stranger regardless of motive.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    I followed every report I saw about anti-Semitic incidents following IX/XI and never found one real one. In general they're self-annoucing, they are too perfect, too flamboyant, use terminology or tactics that give them away, and always have this bizarre worldview that the United States in the present day is Germany during Kristallacht. Main illustration I use is a kid at MSU in East Lansing who claimed to have been attacked in the face with carpenter staples amid anti-Semitic slurs at a party. As in all these things, "nobody helped." Police reported that they were not pursuing charges a few days later, in spite of the overwhelming physical eidence that carpenter staples would surely leave.
    Ask yourself if you could honestly expect to hear a coworker or fellow cafe-goer burst out loud in classic anti-Semitic slurs without surprise or some special expanation. The US is the most philosemitic society in history, Israel is rougher on its Jews.
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  45. Some student was arrested at John Hopkins today for a fake bomb threat.

    WBAL: Fake Threat

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  46. @Buffalo Joe
    Three black female students at the U of Albany claimed that they were harassed and attacked by white male students on a campus bound bus. One of the male students was so intimidated by the resultant protests and threats that he left campus. The university's administration sided with the three blacks and disciplinary action was taken against some white students. Of course the whole campus came to a halt as protests and demands were issued. All this before an actual investigation of the event. Turns out the campus bound bus had 10 or more video cameras. The girls were actually the instigators and aggressors. legal charges were filed and I think two were expelled and one suspended. The court also found the girls guilty of some of the charges. However, like the Duke rape case, once done somethings can't be undone. Once you have caved to demands it is hard to stand tall.

    This is why college admins are out of their element in dealing with these incidents. Their ineptitude also ensures they will continue to be plagued by them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Joe, you are correct. Turn criminal matters over to the police.
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  47. Luke Lea says:

    Assuming no other crime has been committed, rather than treating such hoaxes as “hate crimes” perhaps they should become mandatory grounds for dismissal, expulsion, or termination of employment as matters of public and corporate policy? What do you call it when mores, in this case lying with mischievous intent, are enforced not as a matter of law but of public consensus?

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  48. dcite says:

    Of course they should be prosecuted, whether as “hate crimes” or just slander with intent to do harm. That is a no-brainer and I wonder that no one has yet sued, or brought charges in a major way. Probably this will happen soon.

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  49. J.Ross says: • Website

    Hate crime enhancements are not “a bad idea,” they are an anti-Constitutional political criterion attached to law that guarantees government support on one side of tribal squabbles. Thus asking that they be applied “fairly” and for the benefit of the “bad guys” is incoherent. The only answer is to clear out the kritarchy and return to English common law tradition.

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  50. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Joe Schmoe
    The question still in my mind is whether any of the incidents on these expensive private colleges have been real vs. hoax in the past 5 years or so.

    obviously none of the lame incidents that turned out to be hoaxes deserve much attention even if real as opposed to a heinous crime like murdering a stranger regardless of motive.

    I followed every report I saw about anti-Semitic incidents following IX/XI and never found one real one. In general they’re self-annoucing, they are too perfect, too flamboyant, use terminology or tactics that give them away, and always have this bizarre worldview that the United States in the present day is Germany during Kristallacht. Main illustration I use is a kid at MSU in East Lansing who claimed to have been attacked in the face with carpenter staples amid anti-Semitic slurs at a party. As in all these things, “nobody helped.” Police reported that they were not pursuing charges a few days later, in spite of the overwhelming physical eidence that carpenter staples would surely leave.
    Ask yourself if you could honestly expect to hear a coworker or fellow cafe-goer burst out loud in classic anti-Semitic slurs without surprise or some special expanation. The US is the most philosemitic society in history, Israel is rougher on its Jews.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    this bizarre worldview that the United States in the present day is Germany during Kristallacht.

    Kristallnacht was itself retaliation for a hate crime that had been perpetrated by a Jew against a German. Few know this.

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  51. Achilles says:
    @oddsbodkins
    I think you are wrong. The constitution protects freedom of thought, but that doesn't mean you can't consider motives in crimes. Premeditative thought is the primary difference between first and second degree murder.

    Plenty of problems with hate crime laws, but the 1st amendment isn't one of them.

    https://lawreviewdrake.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/irvol59-1_quill.pdf

    I think you are wrong. The constitution protects freedom of thought, but that doesn’t mean you can’t consider motives in crimes. Premeditative thought is the primary difference between first and second degree murder.

    Intent and motive are different concepts. For example, in homicide law, intent is an element of the crime, and premeditative intent typically distinguishes murder from lesser charges like manslaughter, as you point out. Homicides committed with premeditation, with reckless disregard for life or with criminal negligence are considered different crimes because the element of intent is different in each case.

    But that is different from motive. Historically our jurisprudence did not include motive as an actual element of homicide, except with respect to a defense of justification as for example self-defense or a military operation. Establishing a motive in a particular case may be important in convincing the fact-finder that the defendant committed the offense or had the level of intent required for the crime charged, but motive traditionally has not itself been an element of the crime.

    The notion that by law an offender who commits a premeditated homicide for the motive of say taking someone’s cellphone should have a lesser penalty than an offender who commits a premeditated homicide for the motive of “bias” or “prejudice” defined by the state in circumstances where such “bias” or “prejudice” is otherwise constitutionally protected from being criminalized is relatively new to our laws.

    Even under our expansive federal civil rights laws, homicides are prosecuted under narrowly-crafted provisions outlawing conspiracies and actions taken for the purposes of depriving someone of the exercise of specific legal rights, and not because they were motivated generally by an opinion disapproved by the government.

    Read More
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  52. RW says:
    @Steve Sailer
    There are some. I can recall a few years ago a case of a bunch of white teens out looking for trouble who wound up murdering a black man they didn't know (who may have been gay -- that sounded like more the driving impetus). The perps were rapidly arrested, charged, and convicted. It got some news coverage, but there wasn't much controversy since the justice system worked smoothly.

    Steve, it would be interesting to find what correlation exists between those rich colleges that have disinvited mostly conservative speakers, according to the Brookings research, and the prevalence of hate hoaxes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymuss
    Correlations with federal funds, too. Biting the hand that feeds them. Comes the revolution those ingrates will be the first to perish. No honor among SJWs or thieves.
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  53. @J.Ross
    I followed every report I saw about anti-Semitic incidents following IX/XI and never found one real one. In general they're self-annoucing, they are too perfect, too flamboyant, use terminology or tactics that give them away, and always have this bizarre worldview that the United States in the present day is Germany during Kristallacht. Main illustration I use is a kid at MSU in East Lansing who claimed to have been attacked in the face with carpenter staples amid anti-Semitic slurs at a party. As in all these things, "nobody helped." Police reported that they were not pursuing charges a few days later, in spite of the overwhelming physical eidence that carpenter staples would surely leave.
    Ask yourself if you could honestly expect to hear a coworker or fellow cafe-goer burst out loud in classic anti-Semitic slurs without surprise or some special expanation. The US is the most philosemitic society in history, Israel is rougher on its Jews.

    this bizarre worldview that the United States in the present day is Germany during Kristallacht.

    Kristallnacht was itself retaliation for a hate crime that had been perpetrated by a Jew against a German. Few know this.

    Read More
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  54. @Anonymous
    More evidence that Trump's presidential campaign was one giant false flag hoax:

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/05/12/trump-backslides-legal-immigration-curbs/

    You’d think Bannon would explain all this to Trump. Or that Trump would listen or care; perhaps both arr laughing into their sleeves….

    Well, Jack Hanson will be along shortly to insult you; I’m going to get my watch ready, because I set it bu his punctual castigations of ordinary Joes like us who dare to notice things….

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    I castigate you idiots for crying about him not waving a magic wand and undoing everything that was done in the last 30 years within the first week of his administration.

    I have more faith in the man who won the whole thing than a bunch of defeatist losers like you and every other eeyore that was crying how doomed we were since August 2015.

    Now you got more tears cause I'm on hand to point out how weak you are, you who embody Pound's expression that "A slave is one who waits for another to free him"? And that's not even starting on the anonymous drive bys who exist only to view every story in the most defeatist form possible. Its guys like him which is why weak minded fools like you thought HRC was gonna win on Election Day.

    L m b o

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  55. Anon7 says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    *this is tentatively labeled a hate crime, but keep in mind that 15% of reported hate crimes are hoaxes*

    Don't you mean 95%?

    I made up that number, but picked it as similar to a reasonable guess at the percentage of rape accusations that turn out to be false. It’s hard to know what can’t be known. And it would be better for news agencies to report at least that some percentage of hate crimes are hoaxes, even though the actual number can’t be known. That would be progress in and of itself.

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  56. @bored identity
    There is a reason that Erijen rhymes with Alien.


    You do know that millions of of Punjabi mongrels also prefer to think of themselves as being honorary
    members of Erijen Notion?


    I would rather have a sweet headache with cosmopoliethnocentric escapades of all three members of NY Safran Brigade ( Franklin, Jonathan, and Joshua) than have to deal, or - Vishnu forbid - be in any way associated, with Indian Saffron Brigades.

    Any given day.


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffron_terror#1999_Burning_alive_of_Australian_Christian_missionary_and_his_children:_Graham_Staines


    Why not stick with a Citizenism, Jennerick?

    C’mon bored! This is your captain speaking. Obviously in this verboten context Aryan means white, as I stated. I guess it’s okay if one or two Persians slip through, provided their Bimmers are authentically Aryan. It’ll all be in the fine print.

    Why not stick with a Citizenism, Jennerick?

    It’s a defense league—all upstanding citizens should have no objection. ;)

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  57. Lord love ya, Steve, you’re still hoping for rule of law here. Most of the administrative, law enforcement and prosecutorial authorities, not to mention the media, are on the side of the people perpetrating the hoax. They will never harm their own.

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  58. I don’t think the (((media))) ‘credulously falls’ for anything in this department. The key players know the score perfectly well.

    But I do agree measures like those you’ve suggested should be taken to shame and correct those concerned, whether institutions, media or perps.

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  59. Lot says:

    That being so, shouldn’t false flag hate hoaxes be subject to hate crime laws since a major purpose and/or effect of the action is to inculcate hatred of a particular group, such as whites?

    This is absolutely right. An obstacle is that criminal statutes are narrowly construed. So it would be best if conservative state legislatures passed specific hate-crime-hoax laws.

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  60. Lot says:
    @Yan Shen
    When in doubt about how to best govern, I always ask myself this. What would Lee Kuan Yew do?

    Finally a Yan Shen comment I can agree with.

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  61. Hate crime is a snowflake concept. It is 100% bogus.

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  62. Lot says:
    @Anonymous
    More evidence that Trump's presidential campaign was one giant false flag hoax:

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/05/12/trump-backslides-legal-immigration-curbs/

    I am disappointed too, but there are still major positive consequences to even the current sell-out version of Trump:

    1. If Hillary filled Scalia’s seat, Obama’s second and much larger executive amnesty would be upheld, with a result that the third-world origin population of the US would go up by 25 million or more. The smaller DACA amnesty Trump is keeping is only about 1/8 as large and involves many sympathetic cases.

    2. We have about a week to go to find out of Trump will be keeping Haiti on the TPS list. If he doesn’t, thousands of illegal Haitians will lose their work permits and become immediately deportable. Other illegal Haitians will lose a powerful defense to delay or prevent their deportation, creating a situation where ICE does not even try to deport non-criminal Haitian illegals.

    I’d roughly estimate the illegal Haitian population could fall as much as 10% per year for several years if Trump simply does nothing and let Haiti’s endlessly renewed TPS certification expire. (Nobody responded when I asked for predictions if Trump will affirmatively sell out by filing a TPS renewal notice for Haiti. Kind of depressing but on this complete no-brainer where we just need Trump to do nothing, I feel like Trump might still screw us.)

    3. We had a few precious days in which no entry visas were issued to nationals of seven of the worst Muslim countries who lacked green cards. Some could not afford to rebook their flight and travel. Within the next three months, the Supreme Court could bring back the executive order. Even with Trump’s order blocked, our embassy staff and border control people know what the new boss’s policy is and can implement it in subtle and unofficial ways the district judge in Hawaii lacks the resources to stop. Team Islam has provided some specific, heartwarming examples of this happening.

    4. Trump cut the official refugee admissions number the president sets every year from Obama’s 86,000 to 50,000. This is the program covered by Ann Corcoran’s Refugee Resettlement Watch.

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    We have about a week to go to find out of Trump will be keeping Haiti on the TPS list. If he doesn’t, thousands of illegal Haitians will lose their work permits and become immediately deportable.
     
    It would really make sense to allow all the Haitians who are already in the US to legalize their status and immigrate. Haiti is a complete basket case (I have been there a few times) and one way the US can help the people of Haiti is to allow Haitians to live and work in the US, send money home to family members in Haiti, and qualify for Social Security retirement and Medicare.

    Historically the US and France have both done a lot of harm to Haiti in revenge for the only successful slave revolt in the Western hemisphere. For example, one of the most recent outrages was the action of Bill Clinton in forcing Haiti to take US rice exports, thus forcing huge numbers of subsistence Haitian rice farmers out of business.

    Forcibly deporting planeloads of Haitians and putting them on planes to Port au Prince or Cap-Haïtien is really not going to do anybody anywhere any good. The total population of Haiti is only about 11 million, so even if every single Haitian in Haiti moved to the US, which would never happen, the overall effect on the US would not be very great, and domestic rice, beans, and chicken sales would flourish.

    Haitians should probably be given similar status to Puerto Ricans, even though they are not US citizens. Just let them travel back and forth as they please.

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  63. Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro (triple parentheses are redundant here) is speaking at my law school graduation today.

    I wonder if he is still unable to comprehend the concept of a hate crime hoax.

    http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/josh_shapiro_donald_trump_told.html

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  64. Ferrari committed a ‘Hate Crime’.

    What other sort of crime is there? VibraCrime??? LoveCrime???

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  65. Cortes says:
    @Anonymous
    Your suggestions are all great. A hate crime enhancement is probably a good idea, even though I generally dislike the idea of hate crimes, but these hoaxes increase hate and encourage expression of hate against certain groups or individuals, and that ought to be acknowledged and punished.

    Agreed with one suggestion: that false flag hate hoaxes be considered as aggravating the original offence and the tariff of punishment be doubled.

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  66. NeonBets says:

    The use of ‘Kilroy’ in a Steve Sailer post was irresponsible. I’m sorry, but there’s no other way to frame this– because here is what’s going to happen:

    Fast Forward a year from now…a Trump aid adopts a dog and names him Kilroy.

    And the headline the next day’s Washington Post:

    Trump Aid Names Dog To Honor Notorious White Supremacist Hate Graffiti!

    CNN will have a prime time debate on the matter. CNN will trot out some lame Trump straw man sympathizers to meet with CNN’s resident panel of fools. These straw man sympathizers will will claim that ‘Kilroy’ was used– not because the Trump aid is a white supremacist– but because the aid is a big Styx fan. [Oh yes they will! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilroy_Was_Here_(album)]

    Then, Styx album will be played ad nauseam (which, if you’ve listened to Styx means it will be played one time). The lyrics will be parsed and even played backwards. NYT will chime in and conclude that yes indeed— the members of Styx were racists. [A clip from that day's Rachel Madow ShowHave you listened to the words of Blue-Collar Man? If that's not an ode to the Angry White Man Syndrome, what is!?!?!]

    There will be ‘thought pieces’ in the ensuing weeks from cultural scholars along the lines of ‘Examining The Intersectional Racism and Misogyny of ’80s Rock’.

    In the end, Styx will be deemed a racist band…that was also full of devil worshipers. #SAD.

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  67. @Autochthon
    You'd think Bannon would explain all this to Trump. Or that Trump would listen or care; perhaps both arr laughing into their sleeves....

    Well, Jack Hanson will be along shortly to insult you; I'm going to get my watch ready, because I set it bu his punctual castigations of ordinary Joes like us who dare to notice things....

    I castigate you idiots for crying about him not waving a magic wand and undoing everything that was done in the last 30 years within the first week of his administration.

    I have more faith in the man who won the whole thing than a bunch of defeatist losers like you and every other eeyore that was crying how doomed we were since August 2015.

    Now you got more tears cause I’m on hand to point out how weak you are, you who embody Pound’s expression that “A slave is one who waits for another to free him”? And that’s not even starting on the anonymous drive bys who exist only to view every story in the most defeatist form possible. Its guys like him which is why weak minded fools like you thought HRC was gonna win on Election Day.

    L m b o

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Okay, but here's the thing: I'm not defeatist. I won't speak specifically for Mr. Detbysbire, who is certainly his own man, but many othets are not either.

    We are, however, skeptics and realists. We see a man who promised, inter alia, to do certain things which are indeed entirely within his purview to achve via mere caveat and order (i.e., via, metaphorically, waving a magic wand, as you like to say):

    – Immediate cessation of the refugee nonsense and the DACA nonsense, the latter itself enacted by mere caveat of the previous president and therefore especially unquestioningly within his purview
    – Hiatus and review of the H1B & H2B scams
    – Immediate construction by naval construction battalions and the army's corps of engineers on defenses of the southern border, and deployment of the military thereto to defend the nation from foreign invaders – all wholly within his prerogative as commander-in-chief of the armed forces of the United States of America
    – Cessation of all foreign adventurism: Disentanglement from NATO, Syria, Korea, and all the rest

    What say you to why he has done none of these things?
    , @Autochthon
    Okay, but here's the thing: I'm not defeatist. I won't speak specifically for Mr. Detbysbire, who is certainly his own man, but many othets are not either.

    We are, however, skeptics and realists. We see a man who promised, inter alia, to do certain things which are indeed entirely within his purview to achve via mere caveat and order (i.e., via, metaphorically, waving a magic wand, as you like to say):

    – Immediate cessation of the refugee nonsense and the DACA nonsense, the latter itself enacted by mere caveat of the previous president and therefore especially unquestioningly within his purview
    – Hiatus and review of the H1B & H2B scams
    – Immediate construction by naval construction battalions and the army's corps of engineers on defenses of the southern border, and deployment of the military thereto to defend the nation from foreign invaders – all wholly within his prerogative as commander-in-chief of the armed forces of the United States of America
    – Cessation of all foreign adventurism: Disentanglement from NATO, Syria, Korea, and all the rest

    What say you to why he has done none of these things?
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  68. @Joe Schmoe
    This is why college admins are out of their element in dealing with these incidents. Their ineptitude also ensures they will continue to be plagued by them.

    Joe, you are correct. Turn criminal matters over to the police.

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  69. anonymuss says:
    @RW
    Steve, it would be interesting to find what correlation exists between those rich colleges that have disinvited mostly conservative speakers, according to the Brookings research, and the prevalence of hate hoaxes.

    Correlations with federal funds, too. Biting the hand that feeds them. Comes the revolution those ingrates will be the first to perish. No honor among SJWs or thieves.

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  70. @Anonymous
    Your suggestions are all great. A hate crime enhancement is probably a good idea, even though I generally dislike the idea of hate crimes, but these hoaxes increase hate and encourage expression of hate against certain groups or individuals, and that ought to be acknowledged and punished.

    For hate crime laws or enhanced penalties for a particular race or sex to be repealed, we will have to go through a period of giving the other side a taste of their own medicine. There are probably 100 x more fake domestic violence accusations than fake hate crimes but it hardly gets on the radar. Even the name VAWA tells you how slanted the laws are to begin with. As long as it is only men getting hauled off to jail, there is no problem. Once you start to see feminists-women-mothers getting carted off things will change.

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  71. @Crawfurdmuir
    I recall, long before any of the current jurisprudence related to capital cases was in place, that some jurisdictions had a statutory provision that perjury in a capital case, if it led to the conviction of a person later shown to be innocent, would itself be treated as a capital crime. This seemed to me to treat the offender both fairly and with harshness appropriate to the gravity of his offense.

    "Hate hoaxes" aren't now regarded even as seriously as turning in false fire alarms, yet they are more akin to the phenomenon occasionally observed of the fireman who commits arson in order that he might later be treated as a hero for putting out the fire. Such malefactors deserve punishment of exemplary severity.

    Getting caught perjuring someone who is falsely accused or convicted of a crime should be like getting caught knocking in gin rummy. You get 5 points plus what ever the other guy had in his hand.

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  72. @Yan Shen
    When in doubt about how to best govern, I always ask myself this. What would Lee Kuan Yew do?

    Cane them publicly.

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  73. Is a mere “protest” bomb protected by the First Amendment?

    Italian police say a primitive bomb was responsible for an explosion that damaged a car in the car park of a major post office in Rome on Friday.

    Investigators say the device was in plastic with two bottles of liquid inside, and equipped with a kitchen timer. The post office plays a role in the transfer of migrants.

    “A small blast took place that was very limited. It hardly damaged a few cars, but it was clearly a deliberate act. That’s what we know so far,” said a fire officer.

    Italian media reported two other devices had been found near parked cars in the vicinity.

    “There were two booms, one small one and one stronger one. We were frightened and ran out of the café. We saw high flames and a thick dark cloud straight afterwards. We moved closer to look and saw that there was little damage,” said one witness.

    Traffic was not affected as the police were able to quickly isolate the area, and no-one was injured. Police have not ruled out the possibility of a mail bomb, but believe the device that did explode was intended as a protest and had little viability as a destructive weapon.

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  74. AM says:

    No crimes should be “hate crimes.” But I could see adding extra charges related to fraud, disturbance of the peace, intent to cause a panic, etc.

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  75. Dahlia says:

    That being so, shouldn’t false flag hate hoaxes be subject to hate crime laws since a major purpose and/or effect of the action is to inculcate hatred of a particular group, such as whites?

    Politically, I think this is a bridge too far. This would be countered with “but chilling effect!”

    The biggest trouble for victims of hate crime hoaxes is, well, they’re “victimless”. Too abstract for people.

    I love everything on Steve’s list and would add that the rise of the alternative media is probably owed to injustices such as this.
    During San Jose Trump rally violence, many in the MSM were behaving very badly. Not just not lifting a finger to help, but mocking the victims. But the alternative media was too big and too loud about it and they were shamed into “behaving” and paying it at least some attention, about four days later.

    2016 may be the year the alternative, conservative media became a force too big to ignore.

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  76. @Jack Hanson
    I castigate you idiots for crying about him not waving a magic wand and undoing everything that was done in the last 30 years within the first week of his administration.

    I have more faith in the man who won the whole thing than a bunch of defeatist losers like you and every other eeyore that was crying how doomed we were since August 2015.

    Now you got more tears cause I'm on hand to point out how weak you are, you who embody Pound's expression that "A slave is one who waits for another to free him"? And that's not even starting on the anonymous drive bys who exist only to view every story in the most defeatist form possible. Its guys like him which is why weak minded fools like you thought HRC was gonna win on Election Day.

    L m b o

    Okay, but here’s the thing: I’m not defeatist. I won’t speak specifically for Mr. Detbysbire, who is certainly his own man, but many othets are not either.

    We are, however, skeptics and realists. We see a man who promised, inter alia, to do certain things which are indeed entirely within his purview to achve via mere caveat and order (i.e., via, metaphorically, waving a magic wand, as you like to say):

    – Immediate cessation of the refugee nonsense and the DACA nonsense, the latter itself enacted by mere caveat of the previous president and therefore especially unquestioningly within his purview
    – Hiatus and review of the H1B & H2B scams
    – Immediate construction by naval construction battalions and the army’s corps of engineers on defenses of the southern border, and deployment of the military thereto to defend the nation from foreign invaders – all wholly within his prerogative as commander-in-chief of the armed forces of the United States of America
    – Cessation of all foreign adventurism: Disentanglement from NATO, Syria, Korea, and all the rest

    What say you to why he has done none of these things?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    Bro, the fact you've been on a nonstop whine since late 2015 means you're defeatist. You're looking for any excuse to lose.

    S A D!

    I have faith there's a game plan here. Unfortunately, the autism of many on iSteve, the single most intelligent blog in the history of the world, means that everything is an A or B dichotomy along with a lack of long term planning.

    Maybe you can listen to more of the eeyores who think Gorsuch, with his miles of legalese paper trail, is just another "cuck".

    And you wonder why the AR was a joke, philosophy students one upping each other by naming more obscure philosophers, until Trump came along and ran with it.

    , @Opinionator
    Good suggestions.
    , @Jack Hanson
    Waiting for Sailer to get off his fainting couch and demoderate my response.
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  77. @Jack Hanson
    I castigate you idiots for crying about him not waving a magic wand and undoing everything that was done in the last 30 years within the first week of his administration.

    I have more faith in the man who won the whole thing than a bunch of defeatist losers like you and every other eeyore that was crying how doomed we were since August 2015.

    Now you got more tears cause I'm on hand to point out how weak you are, you who embody Pound's expression that "A slave is one who waits for another to free him"? And that's not even starting on the anonymous drive bys who exist only to view every story in the most defeatist form possible. Its guys like him which is why weak minded fools like you thought HRC was gonna win on Election Day.

    L m b o

    Okay, but here’s the thing: I’m not defeatist. I won’t speak specifically for Mr. Detbysbire, who is certainly his own man, but many othets are not either.

    We are, however, skeptics and realists. We see a man who promised, inter alia, to do certain things which are indeed entirely within his purview to achve via mere caveat and order (i.e., via, metaphorically, waving a magic wand, as you like to say):

    – Immediate cessation of the refugee nonsense and the DACA nonsense, the latter itself enacted by mere caveat of the previous president and therefore especially unquestioningly within his purview
    – Hiatus and review of the H1B & H2B scams
    – Immediate construction by naval construction battalions and the army’s corps of engineers on defenses of the southern border, and deployment of the military thereto to defend the nation from foreign invaders – all wholly within his prerogative as commander-in-chief of the armed forces of the United States of America
    – Cessation of all foreign adventurism: Disentanglement from NATO, Syria, Korea, and all the rest

    What say you to why he has done none of these things?

    Read More
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  78. @Autochthon
    Okay, but here's the thing: I'm not defeatist. I won't speak specifically for Mr. Detbysbire, who is certainly his own man, but many othets are not either.

    We are, however, skeptics and realists. We see a man who promised, inter alia, to do certain things which are indeed entirely within his purview to achve via mere caveat and order (i.e., via, metaphorically, waving a magic wand, as you like to say):

    – Immediate cessation of the refugee nonsense and the DACA nonsense, the latter itself enacted by mere caveat of the previous president and therefore especially unquestioningly within his purview
    – Hiatus and review of the H1B & H2B scams
    – Immediate construction by naval construction battalions and the army's corps of engineers on defenses of the southern border, and deployment of the military thereto to defend the nation from foreign invaders – all wholly within his prerogative as commander-in-chief of the armed forces of the United States of America
    – Cessation of all foreign adventurism: Disentanglement from NATO, Syria, Korea, and all the rest

    What say you to why he has done none of these things?

    Bro, the fact you’ve been on a nonstop whine since late 2015 means you’re defeatist. You’re looking for any excuse to lose.

    S A D!

    I have faith there’s a game plan here. Unfortunately, the autism of many on iSteve, the single most intelligent blog in the history of the world, means that everything is an A or B dichotomy along with a lack of long term planning.

    Maybe you can listen to more of the eeyores who think Gorsuch, with his miles of legalese paper trail, is just another “cuck”.

    And you wonder why the AR was a joke, philosophy students one upping each other by naming more obscure philosophers, until Trump came along and ran with it.

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    • Replies: @res
    Jack, it's easy to review commenter history on Unz and you seem to have mistaken Autochthon for someone else (or many someones, i.e. the deluge of Trump Eeyores in 2016). He only made 20 comments in 2016 (beginning in June) and a quick review of those shows no defeatism to my eyes).

    I am still cautiously optimistic (and anyone here who fails to see how much worse Hillary would have been should be branded S for stupid), but I do understand the concern. Trump seems to be getting things done, albeit much less than many hoped. I think people need to be much more attentive to what happens and pay much less attention to the rhetoric Trump spouts along the way. Getting things done in the face of the intense opposition of all of: the Democratic and Republican establishment, the entrenched bureaucracy, the mass media, and ~50% of the American people is not going to be easy. There is going to have to be much compromise (aka selling out), but I do think Autochthon and others are right to question the apparent priorities.

    I'm kind of glad you are calling the Eeyores out, perhaps just refine your targeting and emphasize a bit more what Trump has accomplished?

    One substantive question. Do you think trading Scalia for Gorsuch qualifies as a victory? Or more like probably the best possible outcome we could realistically expect?

    P.S. "means that everything is an A or B dichotomy" Physician, heal thyself.
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  79. lavoisier says: • Website

    I didn’t think hating whitey and acting out on that hatred was considered a hate crime.

    I thought it was just being fashionable.

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  80. black sea says:

    is anyone aware of a real anti non-white hate crime lately?

    Yes, though the punishment in this case seems oddly disproportionate to the crime.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/hasidic-men-beat-gay-black-victim-community-service-article-1.2753789

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  81. The whole idea of hate crime charges attracting heavier sentences is silly. OK, so the idea is that there should be a deterrent, but it seems unlikely that it works. The death penalty has never deterred anyone who killed, and it is hard to know if it ever deterred anyone who maimed, but stopped short of killing.

    If something is illegal, then it should be illegal in its own right regardless of the alleged or purported motive. I was slightly amused reading today of a case in England in which an unnamed “International sports star” was alleged to have exposed his female ex-lover to HIV by unprotected sex in which he had not told her he was HIV positive. The amusing part was that Thames Valley police said: “We are investigating an incident of grievous bodily harm.”

    I am sure that there are appropriate laws that can be used to charge people with race hate hoaxes, such as wasting police time, obstruction of justice, and so on that will effectively deter anyone who has any sense.

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  82. @Lot
    I am disappointed too, but there are still major positive consequences to even the current sell-out version of Trump:

    1. If Hillary filled Scalia's seat, Obama's second and much larger executive amnesty would be upheld, with a result that the third-world origin population of the US would go up by 25 million or more. The smaller DACA amnesty Trump is keeping is only about 1/8 as large and involves many sympathetic cases.

    2. We have about a week to go to find out of Trump will be keeping Haiti on the TPS list. If he doesn't, thousands of illegal Haitians will lose their work permits and become immediately deportable. Other illegal Haitians will lose a powerful defense to delay or prevent their deportation, creating a situation where ICE does not even try to deport non-criminal Haitian illegals.

    I'd roughly estimate the illegal Haitian population could fall as much as 10% per year for several years if Trump simply does nothing and let Haiti's endlessly renewed TPS certification expire. (Nobody responded when I asked for predictions if Trump will affirmatively sell out by filing a TPS renewal notice for Haiti. Kind of depressing but on this complete no-brainer where we just need Trump to do nothing, I feel like Trump might still screw us.)

    3. We had a few precious days in which no entry visas were issued to nationals of seven of the worst Muslim countries who lacked green cards. Some could not afford to rebook their flight and travel. Within the next three months, the Supreme Court could bring back the executive order. Even with Trump's order blocked, our embassy staff and border control people know what the new boss's policy is and can implement it in subtle and unofficial ways the district judge in Hawaii lacks the resources to stop. Team Islam has provided some specific, heartwarming examples of this happening.

    4. Trump cut the official refugee admissions number the president sets every year from Obama's 86,000 to 50,000. This is the program covered by Ann Corcoran's Refugee Resettlement Watch.

    We have about a week to go to find out of Trump will be keeping Haiti on the TPS list. If he doesn’t, thousands of illegal Haitians will lose their work permits and become immediately deportable.

    It would really make sense to allow all the Haitians who are already in the US to legalize their status and immigrate. Haiti is a complete basket case (I have been there a few times) and one way the US can help the people of Haiti is to allow Haitians to live and work in the US, send money home to family members in Haiti, and qualify for Social Security retirement and Medicare.

    Historically the US and France have both done a lot of harm to Haiti in revenge for the only successful slave revolt in the Western hemisphere. For example, one of the most recent outrages was the action of Bill Clinton in forcing Haiti to take US rice exports, thus forcing huge numbers of subsistence Haitian rice farmers out of business.

    Forcibly deporting planeloads of Haitians and putting them on planes to Port au Prince or Cap-Haïtien is really not going to do anybody anywhere any good. The total population of Haiti is only about 11 million, so even if every single Haitian in Haiti moved to the US, which would never happen, the overall effect on the US would not be very great, and domestic rice, beans, and chicken sales would flourish.

    Haitians should probably be given similar status to Puerto Ricans, even though they are not US citizens. Just let them travel back and forth as they please.

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    • Replies: @Lot

    It would really make sense to allow all the Haitians who are already in the US to legalize their status and immigrate.
     
    It would not make sense to native-born Americans.


    Haiti is a complete basket case
     
    That is because it is full of Haitians.


    one way the US can help the people of Haiti is to allow Haitians to live and work in the US, send money home to family members in Haiti, and qualify for Social Security retirement and Medicare
     
    I have no interest in helping Haitians. As a Malthusian nightmare country, sending more money will not increase the standard of living because it will lead to a larger population. Also, when a large percentage of a country's economy is in the form of remittances, this creates artificial demand for the local currency, damaging the ability of the country to export.

    Historically the US and France have both done a lot of harm to Haiti in revenge for the only successful slave revolt in the Western hemisphere
     
    Really? When was the last time the US and France was run by people who would object to coldblooded massacres of slaveowners and their families? Maybe 1920?

    For example, one of the most recent outrages was the action of Bill Clinton in forcing Haiti to take US rice exports, thus forcing huge numbers of subsistence Haitian rice farmers out of business.
     
    Subsistence farmers by definition eat their own crop, so cheap imports do not effect them. Anyway, this just goes to show that no relationship with Haiti is the best policy. Even giving them cheap rice is supposed to be a bad thing.

    Forcibly deporting planeloads of Haitians and putting them on planes to Port au Prince or Cap-Haïtien is really not going to do anybody anywhere any good.
     
    It will do the USA a tremendous amount of good, because Haitians have extremely high rates of crime and government dependency and a uniquely backward and barbaric culture that is not compatible with ours. Even if you think the USA needs poor immigrants for economic reasons, China, Ukraine, Vietnam, and the Philippines are also much better options to supply us with such immigrants.
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  83. @Autochthon
    Okay, but here's the thing: I'm not defeatist. I won't speak specifically for Mr. Detbysbire, who is certainly his own man, but many othets are not either.

    We are, however, skeptics and realists. We see a man who promised, inter alia, to do certain things which are indeed entirely within his purview to achve via mere caveat and order (i.e., via, metaphorically, waving a magic wand, as you like to say):

    – Immediate cessation of the refugee nonsense and the DACA nonsense, the latter itself enacted by mere caveat of the previous president and therefore especially unquestioningly within his purview
    – Hiatus and review of the H1B & H2B scams
    – Immediate construction by naval construction battalions and the army's corps of engineers on defenses of the southern border, and deployment of the military thereto to defend the nation from foreign invaders – all wholly within his prerogative as commander-in-chief of the armed forces of the United States of America
    – Cessation of all foreign adventurism: Disentanglement from NATO, Syria, Korea, and all the rest

    What say you to why he has done none of these things?

    Good suggestions.

    Read More
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  84. Lot says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    We have about a week to go to find out of Trump will be keeping Haiti on the TPS list. If he doesn’t, thousands of illegal Haitians will lose their work permits and become immediately deportable.
     
    It would really make sense to allow all the Haitians who are already in the US to legalize their status and immigrate. Haiti is a complete basket case (I have been there a few times) and one way the US can help the people of Haiti is to allow Haitians to live and work in the US, send money home to family members in Haiti, and qualify for Social Security retirement and Medicare.

    Historically the US and France have both done a lot of harm to Haiti in revenge for the only successful slave revolt in the Western hemisphere. For example, one of the most recent outrages was the action of Bill Clinton in forcing Haiti to take US rice exports, thus forcing huge numbers of subsistence Haitian rice farmers out of business.

    Forcibly deporting planeloads of Haitians and putting them on planes to Port au Prince or Cap-Haïtien is really not going to do anybody anywhere any good. The total population of Haiti is only about 11 million, so even if every single Haitian in Haiti moved to the US, which would never happen, the overall effect on the US would not be very great, and domestic rice, beans, and chicken sales would flourish.

    Haitians should probably be given similar status to Puerto Ricans, even though they are not US citizens. Just let them travel back and forth as they please.

    It would really make sense to allow all the Haitians who are already in the US to legalize their status and immigrate.

    It would not make sense to native-born Americans.

    Haiti is a complete basket case

    That is because it is full of Haitians.

    one way the US can help the people of Haiti is to allow Haitians to live and work in the US, send money home to family members in Haiti, and qualify for Social Security retirement and Medicare

    I have no interest in helping Haitians. As a Malthusian nightmare country, sending more money will not increase the standard of living because it will lead to a larger population. Also, when a large percentage of a country’s economy is in the form of remittances, this creates artificial demand for the local currency, damaging the ability of the country to export.

    Historically the US and France have both done a lot of harm to Haiti in revenge for the only successful slave revolt in the Western hemisphere

    Really? When was the last time the US and France was run by people who would object to coldblooded massacres of slaveowners and their families? Maybe 1920?

    For example, one of the most recent outrages was the action of Bill Clinton in forcing Haiti to take US rice exports, thus forcing huge numbers of subsistence Haitian rice farmers out of business.

    Subsistence farmers by definition eat their own crop, so cheap imports do not effect them. Anyway, this just goes to show that no relationship with Haiti is the best policy. Even giving them cheap rice is supposed to be a bad thing.

    Forcibly deporting planeloads of Haitians and putting them on planes to Port au Prince or Cap-Haïtien is really not going to do anybody anywhere any good.

    It will do the USA a tremendous amount of good, because Haitians have extremely high rates of crime and government dependency and a uniquely backward and barbaric culture that is not compatible with ours. Even if you think the USA needs poor immigrants for economic reasons, China, Ukraine, Vietnam, and the Philippines are also much better options to supply us with such immigrants.

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  85. @Autochthon
    Okay, but here's the thing: I'm not defeatist. I won't speak specifically for Mr. Detbysbire, who is certainly his own man, but many othets are not either.

    We are, however, skeptics and realists. We see a man who promised, inter alia, to do certain things which are indeed entirely within his purview to achve via mere caveat and order (i.e., via, metaphorically, waving a magic wand, as you like to say):

    – Immediate cessation of the refugee nonsense and the DACA nonsense, the latter itself enacted by mere caveat of the previous president and therefore especially unquestioningly within his purview
    – Hiatus and review of the H1B & H2B scams
    – Immediate construction by naval construction battalions and the army's corps of engineers on defenses of the southern border, and deployment of the military thereto to defend the nation from foreign invaders – all wholly within his prerogative as commander-in-chief of the armed forces of the United States of America
    – Cessation of all foreign adventurism: Disentanglement from NATO, Syria, Korea, and all the rest

    What say you to why he has done none of these things?

    Waiting for Sailer to get off his fainting couch and demoderate my response.

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  86. res says:
    @Jack Hanson
    Bro, the fact you've been on a nonstop whine since late 2015 means you're defeatist. You're looking for any excuse to lose.

    S A D!

    I have faith there's a game plan here. Unfortunately, the autism of many on iSteve, the single most intelligent blog in the history of the world, means that everything is an A or B dichotomy along with a lack of long term planning.

    Maybe you can listen to more of the eeyores who think Gorsuch, with his miles of legalese paper trail, is just another "cuck".

    And you wonder why the AR was a joke, philosophy students one upping each other by naming more obscure philosophers, until Trump came along and ran with it.

    Jack, it’s easy to review commenter history on Unz and you seem to have mistaken Autochthon for someone else (or many someones, i.e. the deluge of Trump Eeyores in 2016). He only made 20 comments in 2016 (beginning in June) and a quick review of those shows no defeatism to my eyes).

    I am still cautiously optimistic (and anyone here who fails to see how much worse Hillary would have been should be branded S for stupid), but I do understand the concern. Trump seems to be getting things done, albeit much less than many hoped. I think people need to be much more attentive to what happens and pay much less attention to the rhetoric Trump spouts along the way. Getting things done in the face of the intense opposition of all of: the Democratic and Republican establishment, the entrenched bureaucracy, the mass media, and ~50% of the American people is not going to be easy. There is going to have to be much compromise (aka selling out), but I do think Autochthon and others are right to question the apparent priorities.

    I’m kind of glad you are calling the Eeyores out, perhaps just refine your targeting and emphasize a bit more what Trump has accomplished?

    One substantive question. Do you think trading Scalia for Gorsuch qualifies as a victory? Or more like probably the best possible outcome we could realistically expect?

    P.S. “means that everything is an A or B dichotomy” Physician, heal thyself.

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  87. Jefferson says:
    @Thomas O. Meehan
    I'd say that hate crime hoaxes are far more damaging than so called hate crimes themselves. So called hate crimes usually break down into A hating B and expressing this in the form of vandalism. A hate crime hoax is more serious because it is an act perpetrated by C for the purpose of engendering social discord between A and B. I think the law should assume malice on the part of hate crime hoaxers. It's incitement.

    “I’d say that hate crime hoaxes are far more damaging than so called hate crimes themselves. So called hate crimes usually break down into A hating B and expressing this in the form of vandalism. A hate crime hoax is more serious because it is an act perpetrated by C for the purpose of engendering social discord between A and B. I think the law should assume malice on the part of hate crime hoaxers. It’s incitement.”

    Hate hoaxes are the equivalent falsely yelling fire in a crowded theatre. Mark my words, hate hoaxes are eventually going to get innocent people killed if harsher laws against it are not passed in Washington.

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