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From my new column in Taki’s Magazine:

Short-Shaming
by Steve Sailer

April 10, 2019

Why is discrimination against the short considered not only tolerable, but also amusing? In an era constantly on the lookout for prejudices to denounce, this obvious one gets a pass.

The main reason our culture doesn’t denounce short-shaming is highly revealing about the essential nature of wokeness.

Read the whole thing there.

 
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  1. anon[683] • Disclaimer says:

    An Asian parent said if racial equity is a consideration for where students attend classes, it also should be a factor in who makes sports teams or other extracurricular programs.

    “Why can’t they have a different standard for Asian kids making it onto the basketball team,” she asked. “We’re not making the basketball team because we can’t reach the rebound, so we better let the ball bounce one time first. No, they don’t change that standard.”

    https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/schools/students-blast-racist-segregationist-comments-at-public-meeting/

  2. As Randy Newman pointed out,”short people got no reason to live.”

    • Replies: @El Dato
  3. MEH 0910 says:

    Roddy Piper interrupts an interview with Danny DeVito (02-18-1985)

    “Da planes”

    Tattoo The Plane The Plane

    • Replies: @El Dato
  4. jim jones says:

    I guess someone has to post the video:

  5. slumber_j says:

    At 6′-1″, I tend to be the tallest or second-tallest person on the subway car here in NYC, which seems weird to me: my friends from college and elsewhere tend to be my height or taller. Then again, they also tend to be white and historically well-nourished.

  6. David says:

    Notable that the first two presidents not to have English surnames were shorties even though their names come from the nation with the greatest average height for men.

  7. …even though armored personnel tend to be small men so that they’ll fit in their cramped cockpits….

    I have wondered if this is a myth. My 5’11” son was career army, MOS Cav. Scout, and did duty at various times driving Bradleys, Strykers and other armored vehicles and he never mentioned anything about maximum height requirements, though I can’t say it ever came up in conversation. I’m sure it could have been a problem at the extremes, but I’d be willing to bet all armored vehicles and tanks in current service are operable by people of above average height.

  8. Bill P says:

    I remember looking for my domestic flight from Oakland to Seattle back in the 90s and seeing a very striking difference in the height of passengers depending on the flight. Most flights were regional from Oakland to some other part of California, and the passengers were largely Hispanic. The line for the flight to Seattle, on the other hand, was almost entirely Anglo/Germanic, and the people in line were a lot taller. The Seattle passengers were also higher socioeconomic class than the average Seattlite, so they really stood out. It was a pretty stark contrast.

    Where I live now – NW Washington state near the Canadian border – the ethnic difference is even more obvious because the local farmers of Dutch ancestry have been using Mayan peasants to pick their berries and milk their cows. The Dutch are among the tallest people on earth while the Mayans are virtually pygmies. So I go to the grocery store and see six foot blonde ladies next to five foot Amerindian guys. To complicate matters, the local Indians (Lummi tribe) are pretty tall but look a lot like the Mayans, except for the Seahawks merchandise they invariably wear.

    So I guess height is relative. If I were Mayan I’d feel like a giant, but since I’m a white guy in Whatcom county I feel pretty average at 6’1″. In California, however, I can imagine that being 6’4″ would be freakishly tall. Maybe even too much for the muchachas.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  9. It is also socially acceptable to ridicule bald men.

    • Agree: Old Prude
    • Replies: @Feryl
    , @dfordoom
  10. Anon[363] • Disclaimer says:

    People are always whining about under-representation of women on corporate boards and such, but I wonder how much of that would vanish if you corrected for height.

  11. Well, there’s an easy solution:

    If you have children, and any of them are boys, tell them to wrestle

    This guy in the photo is pretty short. Maybe some people would make fun of his height. Would you like to mess with him, though?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @Feryl
  12. The one corner of society where I don’t see short-shaming is among Beach Boys fans, who tend to like Al Jardine and even Van Dyke Parks more than the much taller Mike Love.

    For that matter, Beach Boys fans don’t fat-shame either, since Carl Wilson is generally the most beloved figure in the entire saga. As one who heard him sing “God Only Knows” before a massive crowd in DC on the Fourth Of July, I definitely fall into this camp.

    Moral: Be like Beach Boys fans. Maybe this Web site can adopt “Sail On, Sailer” (SIC) as its unofficial anthem.

  13. Thirdtwin says:

    “How the hell is this acceptable OR exclusive…. just another type of body shaming. #disgusting #BodyShaming how about actual journalism?”…

    https://www.ibtimes.com/how-short-george-stephanopoulos-good-morning-america-host-hides-legs-twitter-says-2565231

  14. TheJester says:

    “The main reason our culture doesn’t denounce short-shaming is highly revealing about the essential nature of wokeness.”

    Why do men tend to be taller than women … and why do some men tend to be taller than other men? It is because women genetically select for this trait in their spouses and partners. “Short-shaming” is not a feature of political correctness because women control the shaming mechanisms within society … and the First Principle of “wokeness” governing chronic whining and complaining is to never choose a characteristic that can turn on you. If you are relatively short, it would not make sense for you to “short-shame” anyone.

    For decades I’ve noticed among couples that the woman is typically a head shorter than the man. One can see this in crowds; one can see this in films. It’s a cultural and genetic proclivity. We were once in a park overlooking the river in Quebec City. I turned to my wife and said, “Look around. Notice that every woman in the park is a head shorter than the man.”

    I can speculate that, since women select their mates, women desire their spouses to be taller than they are. Is it because they feel safer around men who physically dominate them? I’ve heard many women over the decades voice that they married their husbands because they made them feel safe.

    Let me dig deeper into this. I’ve noticed that young girls often go through a stage where they are fascinated with horses. Boys could care less. I checked into horse riding for my daughter with an office associate whose daughter was obsessed with horses. The woman said there was a benefit to getting young girls into horses. “Notice, there’s not a boy in the stables. It’s strictly a female thing. Keeps the girls out of trouble.”

    As a firm believer in evolution, my take is that young girls are often obsessed with horses because it gives them a chance to understudy how to interact with and control the larger and taller “beasts” they will soon run into as they start dating and looking for husbands. They know their future husbands will probably physically dominate them. They socially and culturally prepare for this eventuality. This leads to a discussion about why women tend toward passive-aggression as a genetic trait … but I’ll save that for another time.

    • Agree: Clyde
    • Replies: @Tono Bungay
    , @Realist
  15. As I recall, the iconic London Bobbies used to have a recruiting requirement to be above average in height. Thus media caricatures of them always depict a tall man. As they were famously firearm-less, their physical imposingness, emphasized by their custodian helmets, was part of their crime deterrence program. In the 1980s, though, that was deemed discriminatory against “Asians”, though not apparently against shorter man per se, and so was dropped. NYPD has a similar requirement dropped for similar reasons (black and Puerto Rican in NYC’s case), I think in the 1970s. So even when ending official height discrimination, it is done under the guise of ending ethnic discrimination. Apparently, height discrimination is the bigotry that dare not speak its name.

    Still, all Western PDs I’ve encountered seem to be above average height, though.

    As you say, Steve, it’s Rule By Aging Actresses all the way down now.

  16. Anon7 says:

    Another form of height discrimination occurs when people sit down, which is how business is conducted. I’m a little over 5’10” so that puts me at about the 60th percentile for height, but I’m long-waisted and I have very long arms, so when I sit down, most people (women especially) think I’m at least 6’1”. Yes, I’m a freak of nature. Even when I’m standing, most women guess that I’m six feet; it’s a trick of visual perception.

    I had a boss who was a rather short slim black woman no more than 5 feet tall. She invariably wore the tallest possible heels and then concealed them with pant suits. Her Achilles’ tendons had shortened and she was the only person I ever met who wore high heeled sneakers. She was a very confident person, but was constantly aware of her stature when dealing with men in business.

    I’m much taller than everyone else in my dad’s family, thanks to a tall maternal grandfather. I was at a funeral several decades ago, and ran into a couple of my dad’s tiny five foot tall aunts (or great-aunts). They peered up at me, said hello and after I had passed by one said to the other “Where do you think he gets his height?”, which proves it’s all relative.

    I played a lot of basketball in college, and most of my friends and roommates were over six feet. Once I was talked into playing in a basketball league which had a height rule – you had to be 5’9” or shorter. Naturally, I played center. After a foul in the paint, the ref pointed right at me and shouted “That’s a foul on the big man!” Dude, that was one of life’s great moments.

    • Replies: @Marty
  17. Five feet seven here. I wants me some damn reparations, PDQ. A little affirmative action, too, please.

    Amusing short-guy note: I was a junior in high school in 1971, in Indianapolis. At that time, the Indiana Pacers were an ABA franchise. You know, red-white-and-blue ball, the beginning of the three-pointer, etc. In those years, the Pacers had a shooting guard named Billy Keller, 5’ 7”, who was noted for his ability to drain the three. White guy. I looked quite a lot like him. One day I was riding the city bus downtown to the main library, when a motherly-looking black lady insisted that I was Billy Keller. I guess white guys all looked alike to her. She wasn’t buying my denials, either. “You IS Billy Keller!” I guess I should have signed a fraudulent autograph for her. So it’s not all bad, being short.

    Besides: “Confucius say, short guy on dance floor get bust in face.” And there’s LOTS of things worse than that!

    • Replies: @black sea
  18. AndrewR says:
    @Bill P

    I remember going to Cozumel at age 6 and actually being taller than one of the hotel maids, none of whom were much taller than I was. I was never even an especially tall child. But race isn’t real, goyim.

  19. JEG says:

    I would suspect that female attraction to taller males everything else equal is biologically programmed. It probably characterizes all (or almost all) human societies and perhaps works also with gorillas and chimps.

    • Replies: @larry lurker
  20. Anon[383] • Disclaimer says:

    height has commonly been seen as a class marker … hypergamy …

    I seem to have read that evolutionary psychologists trace it way back to hunter-gathers, not the British aristocracy. Has any research on this been done on tribes in the Amazon, the Philippines, Malaysia, or Indonesia about who women prefer? If there is a tug at some level in a woman’s mind indicating greater protection of offspring, then it’s a pretty primeval instinct that is not going to be legislated away. That’s not to say that men’s groups shouldn’t use it as a debate gotcha. 🙂

    Meanwhile, flat shaming goes on:

    Small Breasts Need Not Apply: Spanish Racetrack In Hot Water Over Giant Rack Requirement

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-08/small-breasts-need-not-apply-spanish-auto-race-hot-water-over-giant-rack

    “For a car and motorcycle event we are looking for two ladies who will be available from Friday April 5 through Sunday April 7,” reads the ad. “There is a payment of €200 net, plus any additional costs. There is one requirement: you must have a chest circumference between 95 and 100 cm.”

    I bet they also discriminate against fat race queens, as well as butt-ugly race queens. How many wheelchair-bound or painfully shy or elderly race queens have you seen? The Spanish government should get in there and require blind selection of race queens. In fact, just randomly assign women … or men … or whatever … to the jobs via a central job banks. Don’t give companies an opportunity to discriminate.

    • Replies: @George Taylor
  21. Anon[383] • Disclaimer says:

    A bit of relevant sabermetrics. Baseball player’s lifespan is negatively correlated with their height:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1071721/figure/fig1/

    • Replies: @res
  22. Steve Sailer claims to be 6 feet 4 inches tall with an 8th of an inch on top for a buffer margin.

    Ann Coulter — who I though was 6 feet tall — claims to be 5 feet 9 inches tall.

    Since bloggers, NY Times best selling political writers, cornerbacks, wide receivers and Hollywood movie stars are notorious for OVERSTATING their height, I feel safe to presume that Steve Sailer is 6 foot 3 and a half inches tall and Coulter is a slender bit of a dish over 5 feet eight inches tall.

    I could be taller than Coulter and, since it’s the beginning of Spring in New England, I am an overweight commenter of 195 pounds. I have been in the low 180s and about 210, both weights were due to the types of exercises I was involved in at the time. Lifting weights and overeating and drinking beer will bloat you out like a bastard.

    Attention Steve Sailer:

    Why no mention of the anti-White congressional hearings on WHITE NATIONALISM?

    I didn’t find anything about the White Nationalist hearings in the WSJ or the NY Times and now, to my surprise, you haven’t blogged about them.

    It was a phucking anti-White freakshow of Blacks, Jews, Asians and other offbrands sending White people to Hell without so much as a cool drink to ease the trip!

    The beautiful Ruski lady and dumb brave Swede guy from Red Ice TV that Unz Review features was close to the top of Google’s search machine, but they were censored because their commentary on the White Nationalist congressional hearings was so funny and accurate.

    OUTRAGEOUS DISPLAY OF ANTI-WHITE ANIMOSITY!

    Mr. Sailer:

    As always, I invite you to moderate my comments on through the WHIM machine.

    Thank You,

    Your short commenter, Chuck

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Prodigal son
  23. Steve King is both short and the owner of a big gut or beer belly.

    Sir Howard Carr, a New England aristocrat, suggested that a large stomached man named Mike Capuano lost his US House of Representatives Democrat Primary in Massachusetts because the swells and posh White people in Boston and Cambridge were appalled by his fat gut or beer belly.

    Steve King might not be short, the Iowans he is talking to might be tall.

    Remember, the Pewitt campaign for president says that mass legal immigration will kill the Second Amendment because the foreigners imported by mass legal immigration have no ancestral connection to the historic American nation and they have no understanding of the importance of firearms in a free society.

  24. @Almost Missouri

    More accurately rule by Laura Bushes.

  25. @Almost Missouri

    Aging actresses? I would think they’d be shut out of the man-market. They’re in a highly competitive field, with plenty of the men being homosexuals and tons of eager, young, beautiful women trying to get into show business. I would think the older women would bail out and move on to normal men.

    But, as to the tall man preference: as a normal-sized woman, I find tall men to be unappealing, as romantic partners. You can’t do anything together. Even sitting in a theater or car, someone is inconvenienced by size. You can’t kiss standing up, and holding hands is uncomfortable too. Being closer in height is just a lot more fun and practical for dating, romance, and marriage.

    I think I’m going with degree of sameness being important for a good, lifelong marriage. Same race, same faith, same culture, same tastes. Not saying that some contrasting marriages can’t work, just that the more in common the better. And that goes for shape and size too.

  26. Buck says:

    At 5’9″, I’m the shortest male in my immediate family by far. Every other male is at least 6′. However, I like to remind my brothers that God compensated by making me the most athletic, intelligent and handsome. They tend to disagree but SATs, varsity letters and notch counts favor me. The most successful brother is the tallest, however, so a data point of one agrees with that hypothesis. But he also has the hardest work ethic and highest risk tolerance which are probably better indicators of success in business.

    There are many situations in modernity which favor shorter men. Almost all public transportation is more suitable to men of smaller stature, specifically airline seats. Steve correctly mentions tanks. I was in Armor in the Army and was much more comfortable than the taller guys. Naval ships and even cockpits are easier for shorter guys. The Apollo capsules look absolutely tiny so it would be interesting to examine the average height of astronauts.

    Women do discriminate on height but they discriminate on many other factors. Confidence and charm get short guys over the height hurdle. It’s easier in the meat space but possible online for short guys. Women are suckers for credentialing and others sources of outside approval. “Oh! He went to Princeton and friends think he’s cute so maybe I’ll overlook the 29″ inseam.”

    Point is, discrimination against short men may exist but short men don’t really care for the most part. We find other ways to show we have high T. Playing basketball is for boys. Men wrestle.

  27. Whites, Squatemalans and Asians (especially) suffer adverse disparate impact in the vertical endowment departments.

  28. Erik L says:

    I wouldn’t assume that favoring tall men is because it used to be a class marker. Could be, but it’s only a “Just So Story”. I assume that women’s preferences for taller men is an evolved instinct, but why it evolved will always be speculation (in the absence of a time machine).

    Here’s my Just So Story- when we evolved and hunted in groups it was important for survival for everyone to follow one leader. It mattered less that it was the smartest guy, than that everyone immediately agreed whom to follow. In low light, separated by some distance, how to identify the leader? The tallest guy is the leader!

    That’s my story and I’m sticking to it!

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  29. dearieme says:
    @Almost Missouri

    In Victorian times the Met police got many of its tall officers from the eastern Highlands. This meant that they were not only taller than Londoners but more intelligent and better educated. On average, of course.

  30. KunioKun says:

    I was friends with a kid from a really tall family in my youth. The whole family was paranoid about having circulation problems due to their height.

    Here’s a photo of Lincoln towering over the soldiers:
    http://www.mygenealogyhound.com/vintage-photographs/historic-photographs/Abraham-Lincoln-with-General-George-McClellan-on-Antietam-Battlefield.html

    I think width has overtaken height as a class marker these days. Also, willingness to cover yourself with hideous tattoos is a good marker of class.

  31. The only classes of people you can ever carelessly insult any more:

    smokers
    southerners / rednecks / crackers
    meat eaters
    fraternity brothers
    gypsies (if you are with Euros–this is not permitted in America Made Great Again)
    the owners, management, and employees of the competition if you are at work

    and of course short people

    I suppose white men but I have never heard the class denigrated in real life; only online.

    It’s open season on short people. I am pretty sure the published heights of Bezos and Zuckerberg are fictitious. I wonder if they wear elevator shoes.

    This guy probably ought to get some kind of award for guts:

    • Replies: @Realist
  32. I knew a young, short woman who execrated the stupid song “Short People.”

    Now of course, the song was meant to be sarcastic. Randy Newman, you know, thinks he’s funny.

    But the young woman knew that people don’t get sarcasm. They hear the song and just chant it and chuckle, and use it to abuse short people like her.

    I am reminded of “Born in the USA,” which is down on the USA, but the army picked it up as a theme to help them murder by.

    People, and here we are talking about all white people, are stupid.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  33. Ibound1 says:

    Other countries seem less concerned with height than the US. Stalin and his whole gang were very short. Of course if you were taller than Stalin, he shortened you by a head. But is heightism a US thing?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  34. Spangel says:

    Heightism gets a pass because it’s based on something women find attractive. Even when women aren’t directly driving heightism, the well known fact of their preference makes even other men respect tall men more at a subconscious level. Hence, executives in heavily male industries tend to be tall even while few women had any direct influence over their rise.

    I think men feel like wimps if they complain over what women want. Women can’t experience the same sense of wimpiness. So they will complain that men want thin women. Fat positivism is a thing while short positivism is not.

    Still, it is not only the case that female preferences get a pass from society. For one thing, heightism does affect women severely in professional modeling, and being a model is a very desirable thing for women. Yet, few if any women complain about the unfairness of having to be around 5’10” to be a Victoria secret model. Maybe women don’t care because they know in real life, there is no general advantage in being tall when it comes to attractiveness?

    And sometimes, surprisingly enough, male preference get a pass from society. For example, there isn’t much of a campaign against preference for pretty faces in our world. Women are highly sensitive about thinness standards but seemingly accepting of facial prettiness standards, which are out of reach for at least some women.

  35. The Z Blog says: • Website

    I got curious about why I did not seem to notice many old tall guys. The assumption is we shrink as we age, but maybe tall men simply die earlier. There have been a lot of studies on this, surprisingly enough. They were often corrupted by the fact nutrition plays a big role in height and weight of adults, but after correcting for that, the data does suggest shorter and leaner beats taller and fatter.

    Perhaps that’s why you were surrounded by little brown wiry guys. The tiny shall inherit the earth.

  36. It would also be interesting to examine the social effects of women’s height. That is probably more complicated than with men (where more is pretty much always better).

    It seems that “petite,” average and tall women are all pretty equally appreciated by men.

    But very tall women have trouble because either they, or their prospective mates, don’t want the man to be the shortest in the couple.

    Being short doesn’t seem to necessarily be a career negative for women.

    But it also seems like taller women disproportionately tend toward high powered careers and leadership positions.

    Do they collaterally benefit from male pro-height prejudice? Or does being tall (and perhaps athletic) incline them to operate in traditionally male domains?

    It would also be very interesting to see how all-female groups respond to height. In social situations the tall girl might be the outcast. But in a business setting I have a feeling other women would tend to defer to her.

    But then again I don’t much about women, really.

  37. peterike says:

    OT, but speaking of shaming, white woman nutritionist in NYC opens a Chinese Restaurant focused on “clean” Chinese-American food. That is, Chinese food without all the garbage in it. Social media goes crazy calling her a horrible racist and Yelp has suspended comments to the restaurants’ page.

    https://ny.eater.com/2019/4/9/18301861/lucky-lees-chinese-open-controversy-nyc

    Silly attractive white woman! How DARE you try to do something good!! It amazes me, though, that people can be so clueless as to not figure out what’s going to happen to them.

  38. ‘I remember looking for my domestic flight from Oakland to Seattle back in the 90s and seeing a very striking difference in the height of passengers depending on the flight. Most flights were regional from Oakland to some other part of California, and the passengers were largely Hispanic. The line for the flight to Seattle, on the other hand, was almost entirely Anglo/Germanic, and the people in line were a lot taller…’

    Here’s one that’s even weirder. We recently moved up to rural Oregon.

    It’s all white; but the men are noticeably short, on average.

    You’d think that it would be the opposite. After all, logging was the historical occupation around here.

    But no.

  39. Spud Boy says:

    I’m past being in the dating market, but from what I’ve heard, the advent of dating apps like Tinder, where women can just swipe left all day long, has made it virtually impossible for short and/or unattractive men to get any play whatsoever. On the bright side, on-line porn keeps getting better…

    • Replies: @Forbes
  40. As I recall, the iconic London Bobbies used to have a recruiting requirement to be above average in height.

    (Michael Palin is 5′ 10″ .)

  41. Jack D says:

    The “spoiler” is that heightism is OK because it is practiced mostly by women nowadays. Apparently on dating sites such as Tinder, it is very common for women to specify that they only want men who are over 6′ tall. Also it is common for women to ask men their height before going out. If the man rejoins by asking the woman’s weight or bust size, this means he is a bitter luzer who is short – a tall man would just answer. The luzer is trying to point out the double standard involved but this is not appreciated to say the least. At that point he has lost the exchange and has torpedoed any chance he had of going out with the woman (which were not high to begin with). In fact he makes this reply because he knows that it’s a lost cause at that point anyway so might as well get some verbal satisfaction.

    A Martian that had no understanding of human power relationships wouldn’t understand why it’s OK to ask about one vital stat and not the other, but the answer is that it’s who-whom. Women in our society now have the upper hand (especially on dating sites). Anyone from a hierarchical society understands that there are certain questions that someone higher in the hierarchy can ask his inferiors but vice versa would be considered presumptuous and offensive. But of course you are not allowed to say that women have the upper hand so the reason why it is ok to ask about height and not weight is … mumble mumble. I don’t even know what the pretext is.

    Since all Americans are well nourished nowadays, height is going to increasingly be a proxy for genetics – Asians and Hispanics are disfavored. Apparently it hasn’t registered yet that heightism is really disguised racism.

  42. Jack D says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    Fashion models (whose target audience is mainly women) need to be tall (and often increase their height even more with enormous high heels) but men don’t seem to care about height so long as the woman is proportional (and shorter than they are).

    • Replies: @Feryl
  43. @Jack D

    Not a lost cause. Both of the responses you identify will lessen her attraction, even for a tall man.

  44. Spangel says:
    @Jack D

    What happens when you ask for a woman’s weight in online dating? Has anyone tried this? I would guess if you asked a woman who is thin, she’d take this as a kind of compliment.

    Besides, you don’t need to ask. Unlike height, weight can be seen from picture as long as the pictures are taken from a normal angle and she hasn’t gained weight since the pictures. Just don’t ask our girls who have online photos from weird angles and you should be able to avoid fat, right?

    As an aside, internets says gay men’s height preferences tend to depend on whether they want a dominant or passive partner. Otherwise they prefer men at least the same height as themselves. Gay male height preference isn’t nearly as severe as women’s. Lesbian show the least height preference. Probably female height preference in men is an example of preferring a signal of dominance. Seems like a custom the feminists should be irritated about. Maybe they’ll get to it.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  45. Marty says:

    Some peopke can’t judge height anyway. Last week after I knocked a cigarette out of a guy’s hand, he called the cops and described me as 6 feet. Actually I’m under 5’10”.

    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Simply Simon
  46. eded says:

    Steve,

    Is it possible that the average shorter height of hispanics has helped them take over service sector jobs formerly held by blacks because they are seen as less physically imposing and hence less threatening?

    For instance you’ve discussed how hispanics now occupy golf course jobs that were once widely held by blacks. Whites and other ethnicities may be more comfortable around shorter hispanics especially when it comes to hiring them in jobs that bring them into private spaces such as gardener, landscaper etc…

  47. Old Prude says:

    I think Steve nailed it when he referenced that women are the main driver of the discrimination and why it is tolerated: Shortness is one of the three things its OK to mock and make fun of in popular culture. The other two are baldness and a small penis. Again, this is all about womens’ preferences.

    This is why I have no sympathy for all the snowflakes whining about how butt-hurt they are from micro-aggressions. Old Prude has all three going against him and has been mocked from Shrek to Seinfeld, yet, somehow, remains insouciant, accomplished and happy. I could obsess over it and make myself miserable and insecure, but seeing as how that won’t make me tall, with flowing locks and a fire-hose, it seems pointless, if not counter productive.

    I do like watching tall people knock their heads on light fixtures and limp around with shot knees. There is even grim satisfaction to the increased incidence of cancer (sorry Steve, but you know how nasty envious little men are).

  48. anon[247] • Disclaimer says:

    Please correct me here, but isn’t there a well-substantiated correlation of height with intelligence? It was my understanding this persisted, after controlling for childhood nutrition.

    And I think the discussion of heightism should decouple the dating aspect from the professional discrimination aspect. From a dating POV, preferring a tall man is probably evolutionarily-outdated. But then again, so is preferring a large bust size and small waste in a woman.

    • Replies: @res
  49. Spangel says:
    @eded

    Eded, have you seen how these little Hispanics work at this service sector jobs? They work circles around blacks. If I had a business requiring manual labor, I would never consider hiring a black over a Central American. Less criminality, less lip, less absenteeism and willingness to work whether it’s 107 degrees or hail outside.

  50. Marty says:
    @Anon7

    Had a similar moment in a pickup game in SF in the ’80s. My teammates assigned me to guard the other team’s 6’2″ guy. I asked why me, I’m a little guy. To which an older black dude responded, “yeah, but you play big.”

  51. Forbes says:
    @Spud Boy

    Reading on-line a few weeks ago, apparently Tinder wants to have male height certified, as women are discovering regular exaggeration by the males they meet on “dates.”

    • Replies: @L Woods
  52. “McCain, who is listed at 5’9″, might actually have been shorter when he ran due to age and the beatings he endured in North Vietnam).”

    McCain’s shrinkage was more likely a result of his ejection than any beatings he might have (or not) suffered at the hands of the Viets. I took a ride up the rails and it took half an inch off my height.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
  53. black sea says:
    @Reactionary Utopian

    Back in his days as a guard for the 76ers, Scott Skiles tried to take the elevator to a floor reserved for the team’s players. The hotel staff — refusing to believe that he could be a team member — blocked his access.

    Someone from the 76ers’ staff had to verify Skiles’ status. And at that time he was a starting player.

    The joke surrounding Skiles was that he was indeed short, but he made up for it by being slow.

  54. I mentioned this before here, and maybe this posting has something to do with this:

    There is little or no correlation between penis size and height.

    Not only do studies show this, but also experienced women and those who have worked in the sex industry will tell you this. (You don’t have to ask me how I know. I have written about this before.)

    Since this means so much to men and to many women (but not all) this fact should come as consolation to short men. Not only that. Your d**k looks bigger if you are a short man. (Pro tip: Shave or trim your pubes to make your member seem longer. Another tip: Lose some weight, some fat, dudes. Fat accumulates around your groin area and makes your d*ck seem shorter because there is more stuff there ar0und the base. Keeping in shape is good!)

    Height shaming is very bad. I called attention to this here a few months ago. Like Steve, I am tall, but I feel for men less giraffe-like than I. And I can testify from experience that women do indeed notice us more. Height is still an advantage if you are a bachelor, for whatever reason.

    • Replies: @Alden
  55. Wency says:
    @Cloudbuster

    I think this was much more true in the past. A Sherman tank is half the size of an Abrams with one more crew (5 vs. 4), so space was at more of a premium. The Soviets had a maximum height of 5’6″ for their tankers at one time.

    It’s still not the best line of work for a very tall person. I have a 6’4 friend who literally can’t fit in a small pickup that I own, so at some point the problem isn’t limited to tanks.

  56. I mentioned this before here, and maybe this posting has something to do with this:

    There is little or no correlation between penis size and height.

    Not only do studies show this, but also experienced women and those who have worked in the sex industry will tell you this. (You don’t have to ask me how I know. I have written about this before.)

    Since this means so much to men and to many women (but not all) this fact should come as consolation to short men. Not only that. Your d**k looks bigger if you are a short man. (Pro tip: Shave or trim your pubes to make your member seem longer. Another tip: Lose some weight, some fat, dudes. Fat accumulates around your groin area and makes your d*ck seem shorter because there is more stuff there ar0und the base. Keeping in shape is good!)

    Height shaming is very bad. I called attention to this here a few months ago. Like Steve, I am tall, but I feel for men less giraffe-like than I. And I can testify from experience that women do indeed notice us more. Height is still an advantage if you are a bachelor, for whatever reason.

  57. @Spangel

    “What happens when you ask for a woman’s weight in online dating?”

    New York Magazine used to run personals, and in them you’d frequently see women describe themselves as “Rubenesque” or even “Saftig”. In the ’90s you’d see roughly half the women describe themselves that way, and the other half would say they had “Teri Hatcher looks.” I guess that meant 100% of the women advertisers were Jewish?

  58. @TheJester

    Interesting remark. Thanks. It’s worthwhile for men to keep in mind that women live in a world with bigger stronger people, i.e., men. Customarily, they need somehow, as you get at in discussing horses, to engage the devotion of one of those bigger stronger people to ward off all the other bigger stronger people. As a man myself, I think that sounds like a complex challenge. So let us all, despite all the provocations in the air these days, try to maintain a certain gentlemanly indulgence toward them.

    • Replies: @TheMediumIsTheMassage
  59. @Buzz Mohawk

    @Buzz, aren’t you taking this a bit too personally?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  60. Tinder is now working on finding some mechanism to verify men’s heights to stop them from lying about it in their profiles. Don’t hold your breath waiting for them to do the same with women’s weights.

    • LOL: Mr McKenna
  61. Twinkie says:
    @Cloudbuster

    It’s the pilots who are short, not armor people.

  62. @JEG

    I’m 5’11” and a couple of times in college I went to Halloween parties in ~3″ high-heeled boots. It felt like I got a 1 std (heh) bump in attractiveness.

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
  63. @peterike

    It’s a slightly wonderful thing that there are still people so uninfected by the madness that they think they can do this and get away with it. Or it’s some high grade trolling. Either way, a story to gladden the heart.

  64. Twinkie says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    If you have children, and any of them are boys, tell them to wrestle

    One caveat: there is correlations between wrestling and stunted growth. The speculation usually points to weight-cutting as the culprit. Depriving water and food to adolescents is generally bad for their growth.

  65. njguy73 says:
    @peterike

    OT, but speaking of shaming, white woman nutritionist in NYC opens a Chinese Restaurant focused on “clean” Chinese-American food.

    What was she thinking? That people would be cool with that?

    What's her joint's breakfast special, Brain Tumor Omelettes?

  66. 216 says:
    @eded

    https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2017/11/low-skill-immigration-case-restriction/

    Employer race realism is a thing.

    I don’t think they’ve ever studied physicality, but it seems plausible. Usually the difference is credited to criminal records, drug use, and time spent slacking off.

    What most don’t want to see is that employers value Asians more than whites, thanks to lower rates of drug use and absenteeism.

  67. Height offers evolutionary advantages, such as longer reach in hand-to-hand combat and being able to throw projectile weapons slightly harder.

    Height and distance.

    The American Empire should use its power in a more removed manner — much as Sailer’s beloved description of tormenting a nice short guy with a sword because he could — in order to minimize getting caught up in brawls and sinkholes that do not advance our foreign policy interests.

    How about the American Empire go to an Offshore Regional Balancer strategy instead of the Israel First Meat Grinder strategy that got thousands of US soldiers killed and tens of thousands wounded in wars on behalf of the ungrateful client state of Israel?

    American colonists used distance and cover to take pot shots at the British Empire troops who were in formation. The American Empire used an island hopping strategy to try to minimize casualties in WWII.

    The Israel First treasonites such as Trump and the scum at AIPAC will say the American Empire must project force every place at once and it must especially fight wars on behalf of Israel.

    I say cut all ties with the ungrateful bastards in Israel — forcibly disband AIPAC by making all of them register as FOREIGN lobbyists — and go to an Offshore Regional Balancer strategy to prevent any more horseshit wars like George W Bush’s Iraq War debacle.

    That bastard Trump is making me a short-tempered and short White Core American.

  68. Wency says:
    @Spangel

    “Even when women aren’t directly driving heightism, the well known fact of their preference makes even other men respect tall men more at a subconscious level.”

    Men don’t award other men status because girls like them; girls like them because they have status.

  69. Anon[627] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    Three have been studies, including by the CDC, of how much people misstate their height and weight by. The CDC does health surveys partly by telephone,and they need to know how much to adjust answers by, so they show up at the houses of a subset of the respondents with a scale and a tape measure.I

    I’ve never read that women understand their height, however, but i wouldn’t be surprised if y’all women did it from time to time.

  70. El Dato says:
    @MEH 0910

    Roddy Piper interrupts an interview with Danny DeVito (02-18-1985)

    TV was good back then.

    This is memeworthy.

  71. @Twinkie

    One caveat: there is correlations between wrestling and stunted growth. The speculation usually points to weight-cutting as the culprit. Depriving water and food to adolescents is generally bad for their growth.

    I saw they were putting the special forces recruits on highly restricted diets and then putting those SOBs through grueling endurance exercises. Maybe some of the bell ringers who called it quits just wanted a few beers and a hamburger.

    I think now they give them a protein and energy bar or something to at least keep some fuel in their tank while they push them to their limits.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  72. El Dato says:
    @Redneck farmer

    There’s always dwarf-tossing or taking up beardy roles in The Return of the Son of the Hobbit.

    OTOH, living in space environment could be a new thing.

  73. goatweed says:

    Is there a world famous Taki Mag comment board?

  74. Realist says:

    A much more important trait, than height, is intelligence. Especially over the last one hundred years.

  75. Realist says:
    @Cloudbuster

    I’m sure it could have been a problem at the extremes, but I’d be willing to bet all armored vehicles and tanks in current service are operable by people of above average height.

    Why there is no advantage?

  76. sabril says:
    @slumber_j

    I think that in general, people in NYC are shorter than in many other parts of the country. There are a lot of Jews; Hispanics, and Italian Americans here who bring the averages down.

    • Replies: @SFG
  77. Realist says:
    @TheJester

    It is because women genetically select for this trait in their spouses and partners.

    This could be why IQ is on the decline.

  78. sabril says:
    @Spangel

    For example, there isn’t much of a campaign against preference for pretty faces in our world.

    For the most part I agree, but imagine if plain women were ridiculed the way short men are ridiculed? It’s pretty much unthinkable.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  79. Realist says:
    @simple_pseudonymic_handle

    I suppose white men but I have never heard the class denigrated in real life; only online.

    You need to get up to speed with current events.

  80. res says:
    @Anon

    The steepness of that trend is remarkable. Reproduced inline here to compare with plot below.

    Here is a survey of height and longevity:
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260718665_How_height_is_related_to_our_health_and_longevity_A_review
    but it includes little real data.

    This paper looks at mortality and a variety of body measurements in NHANES III:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5088335/
    The height curve is noisy and the slope is shallow, but the trend seems clear.

    Brief explanation of the other measurements:

    body shape index (ABSI) to be independent of BMI and height. Here, we develop a new hip index (HI) whose normalized value is independent of height, BMI, and ABSI.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    , @Twinkie
    , @Old Prude
  81. Realist says:
    @Marty

    Some peopke can’t judge height anyway. Last week after I knocked a cigarette out of a guy’s hand, he called the cops and described me as 6 feet. Actually I’m under 5’10”.

    Don’t feel bad….you are an asshole.

  82. @Days of Broken Arrows

    Nobody short-shamed Dio, tiny physically but a giant among the Metal Gods

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  83. Since somebody already posted the Newman song, here’s this.

  84. MEH 0910 says:

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  85. Feryl says:
    @James Braxton

    The real ridicule has always been for bald guys trying desperately to hide their baldness via combovers, wigs, etc. This was especially true in the 70’s and 80’s, when evidently having hair was mandatory and few methods to “cure” baldness were available (thus, rock singer Joe Lynn Turner has been wearing a wig since the 70’s due to alopecia and the prejudice against baldness in the 70’s and 80’s).

    Nowadays, a lot of hair “restoration” methods are available, plus beginning in the early 90’s having a shaven head has been pretty normal for guys (w/Micheal Jordan’s hairless head often being cited as a milestone for advancing baldness). So you don’t see as many laughable combovers and wigs as you used to.

    • Agree: prosa123
  86. Elli says:

    Sexual selection runs both ways. Most women in the wealthy town where I live are taller than average. Men on the success track opt for women with elegant figures, who boost their status and supply tall sons.

    In many beauty pageants, including some in India and Mexico, there is a minimum height requirement, usually about 5’6, so that winners will be competitive in the international contests. Too bad, Mayan girls.

  87. Short shaming only has any bite if the shamed one is male, hence it’s acceptableness, along with bald shaming. And small dick shaming. And sleeping in your mom’s basement shaming. And the blatantly lookist shaming of neck beards.

  88. Steve: a minor and quick correction regarding sports (science): distance runners tend to be short because of how cardio (ie Vo2Max) power-to-weight ratio varies with body size. As humans get bigger, their aerobic output tends to increase, but at the same time it also decreases in proportion to their weight. This is also, on average, true for strength. Ergo in cycling the climbing specialists are usually short and small (often under 5-7) while the best flatlanders are often over 6 feet. Looking at the most specialized and best climbers and flatlanders as an example, Nairo Quintana is 5-6 and Tom Boonen is 6-4. So runners are short and rowers and swimmers are tall (no weight penalty). Within running you start out short (<50m) and then the runners get taller (200m to 800m) and get short again, particularly at the mile and beyond. Haile Gebrselassie, easily the greatest distance runner of his generation, is 5-5.

    In the strength world, short guys tend to be better at push-ups, while most bench-press records are held by tall guys. In the NFL, the few short positions/players tend to be those that can leverage their superior power-to-weight ratio (slot receiver, running back). If the NFL switched from tackle to flag football many positions – running back in particular – would probably get a lot smaller.

    Evolution is all about takeoffs, so the median White guy is 5-10.5 for a reason.

    Also of note, if you look at old Health Department stats, you'll notice that college educated Whites are generally about an inch taller than non-college educated Whites. I'm guessing it's a combination of crossover height-intelligence genes and college winnowing out those with certain deleterios chromosomal anomalies, etc that affect both height and intelligence.

  89. Feryl says:
    @Jack D

    First of all, at least 40-50% of men (particularly those who aren’t white or black) are shorter than 6′. No wonder Millennials aren’t getting married if the women are that demanding.

    Second of all, who’s gonna be honest about their height? In addition to basketball players, quarterbacks, and wide receivers habitually lying about their height, I suppose we now have to add men using dating apps.

    A distinction between height and weight is that height can never be gained after your youth has ended (unfortunately), but it can be lost in middle age or old age (also unfortunately). Whereas weight to a big extent can be gained or lost at any time. That’s just another thing that socially favors women; short guys are screwed, fat gals can lose weight if they wish to so.

    • Replies: @Travis
    , @Old Prude
  90. Altai says:

    I think the more interesting thing is how 6′ is some magic threshold that it’s socially acceptable for women to find a minimal level of acceptable in the English-speaking world. (maybe because a non-trivial number of men exceed this or come close enough?) In a lot of Northern European countries I see 180cm used in the same way.

    The rational irrationality of round numbers.

  91. @Anon

    Small Breasts Need Not Apply: Spanish Racetrack In Hot Water Over Giant Rack Requirement

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-08/small-breasts-need-not-apply-spanish-auto-race-hot-water-over-giant-rack

    “For a car and motorcycle event we are looking for two ladies who will be available from Friday April 5 through Sunday April 7,” reads the ad. “There is a payment of €200 net, plus any additional costs. There is one requirement: you must have a chest circumference between 95 and 100 cm.”

    The Monster Energy Girls from NASCAR

  92. Feryl says:
    @Jack D

    It’s long been understood that tall/angular woman make clothes look more, uh, striking, or something. Women with va va voom “fill out” clothes too much; of course, women with husky bodies might as well be wearing men’s clothes, since they’re bodies are so ill-suited to women’s clothes that are intended to look good on tall and skinny people.

    Super hero physiques are always “statuesque”, e.g., they have the V-shaped tall “swimmer’s build”, which really isn’t that common (because if it was, we could all be Micheal Phelps). Among Ice People, there may be a sub-conscious bias against people who are wide in the lower torso, because we associated this build with tropical savages (E.G., Pacific Islanders and Sub-Saharan Africans). “Western” standards of beauty generally favor wide shoulders and chest with a narrow waist/butt; perhaps we idealize what tropical people generally don’t have. Body-builders naturally tend to focus the most on their arms/shoulders/chest; although the roided up freaks tend to have such massive legs that they look more like monsters and less like super heroes (basketball players and swimmers in fact tend to have the aesthetically favored build more than anyone else does).

    Interestingly, having “practical strength” utilizing the “core” muscles in one’s stomach and chest tends to not produce terribly large arms, end result being that most manual laborers and to some extent military personnel (even the white ones) are often decidedly lacking in the super hero build. Plus most strong-men seem to have utter mass on their side (e.g., they are fat to some extent), rather than looking like lean body builders. Even among white people, most people tend toward being rather uniformly gracile or rather fat; few people naturally possess the tall V-shape swimmer’s build (again, this explains why a goofball like Micheal Phelps can dominate swimming, while more intelligent and more athletically rounded people stink at swimming). That being said, it’s going to be even harder to find the V-build among Sub-Saharan Africans and squat Central Americans. Hollywood’s notorious bias for white actors can I think be explained by the fact that whites on average possess the most V-shaped build that tends to stand out aesthetically.

    • Agree: Old Prude
  93. foulkes says:

    I’ve seen many women have nothing but disdain for short guys. As much disdain that men have for fat and/or or aging women. I ‘ve also had short friends complain bitterly about it. Heightism is probably second only to fatism is social ostracism

    I’m 6’1” and I sympathize with short guys a bit for this obvious discrimination, but not too much. This discrimination only helps me in obtaining female companionship.

  94. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:

    I’d say the female equivalent to heightism is looks-ism.

    Everybody has been in professional situations where some mediocre but pretty woman gets coddled, babied and advanced beyond her level of competence simply because older men want to fuck her. Sarah Palin is probably the most prominent example of this dynamic–when Bill Kristol anointed her a rising star his brain was not the part of his anatomy that made the decision–but it plays out every day in workplaces all over America. I can think of a lot of unfortunate-looking men who ascend to powerful positions, but with women there seems to be a floor of minimum attractiveness. And what we think of as “frumpy” is mostly just age: Hillary was a good-looking girl in her day. Elizabeth Warren was downright foxy.

    Looks are a double-edged sword though: while old men generally won’t want to mentor an ugly young girl, women will reflexively hate all girls much prettier than themselves. What an attractive woman gains in male patronage she loses in female patronage. This doesn’t matter so much in corporate environments, where decisions are mostly made by the aforementioned horny old men, but in politics it can be devastating. Try to imagine an Ocasio-Cortez type Democratic politician (young, attractive, bubbly, woke-progressive) but instead of Puerto Rican she’s…white. It just doesn’t compute: the Democrats as a party are too female and too minority to be electing any Beckys. My advice to any hot young white woman who wants to hold elected office would be either to become a Republican (the party of horny old men) or, if you insist on being a Democrat, wait until you hit menopause.

  95. Feryl says:
    @res

    Tall men have endured because they are assumed to be good at ass-kicking, which discourages male competitors and attracts women. In my estimation tall people are seldom bullied or cheated, because they are naturally intimidating. On a similar level, tall people are more likely to be listened to, hired, promoted etc. because people fear the wrath of a tall person.

    Physics lesson: tall people have greater mass, better leverage, and a longer reach than short people do on average. Thus, tall people can more easily win a fight against a short or average sized person. Virtually all North American male pro wrestlers are at least 5’10”, because below that size mass and strength are so diminished that short people look like a joke compared to a typical pro wrestler.

    The strength and credibility provided by tall stature off-set the longevity hit (and besides, people generally didn’t live that long until very recently)/

  96. @Twinkie

    Weight-cutting was indeed a very serious problem in the sport at one time, but the culture has changed.

    I doubt this correlation is really present in any great amount today.

    The wrestler pictured is Zain Retherford, who wrestled for Coach Cael Sanderson at Penn State. Sanderson is currently the most highly-regarded coach in American wrestling, and one of his great innovations has been coupling excellent and healthy weight management with an attitude that wrestling should be “fun” as opposed to merely “tough.”

    Note: Retherford bled some in that match, which made for a cool picture, but it’s not all that common to see such a spectacle.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  97. mmack says:
    @Cloudbuster

    Cloudbuster,

    First off, thanks to your son for serving.

    Second, I can only think of two instances where height restrictions were made for weaponry in industrial times:

    1. The Sperry Ball Turret. This was an eyeball shaped manned turret mounted to the belly of Boeing B-17 Flying Fortresses and Consolidated B-24 Liberators. There was no way on God’s Green Earth someone Steve Sailer’s height, much less your son’s height, was going to fold himself into that contraption and close the hatch. Wiki says “typically the shortest crew member” manned the turret. I thought I read nobody taller than 5’6” could fit in it.

    2. This could be a legend, but I have repeatedly read the Soviets recruited men 5’6” or shorter to be tank crewmen. There may be something in this since a glance at the T-54/54, T-62, and T-72 family of tanks show them to have a shorter silhouette than contemporary US tanks like the M-48, M-60, and M-1. I do know Russian designers were obsessed at keeping the size and height of their tanks small and low to the point of adding an automatic loader for the main gun to reduce crew size. One less crewman means not having to design space in the tank for him.

    • Replies: @prosa123
  98. @Colin Wright

    That doesn’t surprise me

    Oregon, historically, was pretty darn strong in the sport of wrestling

    Ken Kesey (center) wrestled at the U of Oregon

    Other strong American wrestling regions:

    – Pennsylvania
    – New Jersey; two Italian kids from NJ just won national titles for Rutgers
    – The rest of the Mid-Atlantic is okay too
    – Anywhere Midwestern, but especially Iowa, Illinois, and Ohio
    – Oklahoma
    – California, especially the Central Valley (probably an Okie migrant influence originally)

    I do not know how the height of white men in these regions compares to elsewhere

  99. Feryl says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    That dude is strong enough, I suppose, but a “super-heavyweight” person over 6’2′ tall would crush him. Short people are at a huge disadvantage in terms of overall mass potential (e.g., a 5’6 man would have to be like, what, 300 lbs, to have the same mass as a 240 lb 6’3″ guy, and obviously the shorter man would have serious liabilities in agility and overall health, as well as having inferior leverage and reach. Athletic credibility-wise, tall guys in reasonably good shape are, for good reason, usually thought to be vastly superior over-all athetes compared to well-conditioned short men (if one defines athleticism as the ability to kick another person’s ass, which most of us do).

    There’s a reason combat sports have weight divisions (which in practice often become defacto height divisions, as fighters in the lower weight divisions almost always are shorter than the fighters in the higher weight classes), and a reason why (until very recently) men and woman were not allowed to compete against each other. Men are taller and have much denser bones and muscles than women (naturally) do.

  100. foulkes says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    There is little or no correlation between penis size and height.

    Women don’t agree with statement

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  101. @Marty

    I’m only 5-8 but one time on the dance floor I knocked a cigarette out of the hand of a really big guy. I also remarked how stupid he was. Subconsciously I probably felt safe since thee were so many people around. But it was not much later he came to my table and apologized for having a lighted cigarette on the dance floor. We shook hands and that was that.

  102. @slumber_j

    Yeah, when I was going to school in NYC, I’d invariably wind up on the subway facing some short Puerto Rican with pimples and bad breath. I’m only 5’9″.

  103. @Charles Pewitt

    Most men over 6’1” do not exaggerate their height in my experience.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Anonymous
  104. Ibound1 says:
    @Jack D

    If I were 30 years younger and single (not being over 6 feet tall) I would honestly reply and ask for her IQ. That was just as important to me for attraction as height is for a woman. I married a smart and good looking woman (who was shorter than me). I would not have been attracted to an unintelligent woman. And fair is fair. I wonder how it would go over?

  105. @Almost Missouri

    Almost, When I was a young lad my dad used to take me fishing in Northern Canada. The officiers of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Mounties, seemed to be taller than the other Canadians around them who usually were French Canadians. I think now the Mounties have diversified,

  106. @peterike

    pete, I would do her in a heartbeat, and be hungry for more an hour later. Of course, only in my mind.

  107. @Jack D

    Jack, what women in heels and stilettos want is tall men, but they can fake their height.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  108. @Buzz Mohawk

    Buzz, Ok, but why not tell the ladies that your dick is only three inches… from your knee cap.

    • LOL: Redneck farmer
  109. @Spangel

    I’m surprised we’re not seeing Buzz Feed articles about the evils of “boobism,” a term I just invented for men’s general preference for busty women.

  110. @Days of Broken Arrows

    Yeah but Mike Love was such a colossal c-word that his height is pretty damned irrelevant. Also he’s bald. They should have thrown him out of the group.

  111. @stillCARealist

    Agree with you about height anyway. I once had a short girlfriend and though we could hold hands, walking arm-in-arm was absolutely impossible. Better just stay in the bedroom really.

  112. @Hypnotoad666

    But then again I don’t much about women, really.

    What I wouldn’t give to know what the missing word is here!

    Know? Care? Like? Feel? Think? Dream? Talk?

  113. because it’s something people only do to men, and you’re allowed to make fun of men.

    when women get raped the entire community shuts down in a moral panic. when a man gets raped, people laugh at him.

    walk it off, men. nobody cares when you get hurt. it’s funny.

    that’s why.

    also nobody cares how tall a woman is. who cares if some woman is under 5 feet tall. she’s a woman. she’s just a short woman at that point. not a manlet. women’s value is not tied to height.

    and more to the HBD angle, there’s nothing group specific about height. there’s short men everywhere, and they get made fun of everywhere. it’s universal.

    you know what’s also ok? to make fun of men with small penises. these days we forbid fat shaming, but we’ll never forbid, er, short shaming, as it were.

    • Agree: L Woods
    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @Anonymous
  114. Jack D says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    The Portuguese tend to be on the shrimpy side for Europeans. When I was in Portugal I saw a lot of women in platform shoes.

  115. “Why is discrimination against the short considered not only tolerable, but also amusing?”

    I dunno. As a six foot, four inch guy, I seem to find a lot more 36/28 size pants at the local clothing store than 36/34.

    Also, most of the most famous actors are under 5’10”.

  116. In 2016, the average white man was almost 5’10” tall, compared with a little under 5’7″ for Hispanic and Asian men. So height discrimination benefits whites.

    “Specializing in men suit extra short”

  117. Twinkie says:
    @res

    Little dogs live longer than big dogs.

    On the other hand, sometimes height gain and increased lifespan go hand-in-hand, as demonstrated by the biggest gain in height among all the countries in the past three decades – in South Korea. During the same period, there was also substantial gain in IQ.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @res
    , @Buffalo Joe
  118. how rich would you be if you could invent height verification for dating apps like tinder.

    of course this follows that the men would want weight verification.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Buffalo Joe
  119. @stillCARealist

    Steve had some posts a while back about how aging actresses were setting the political tone, in today’s case by okaying heightism while ixnaying sexism.

    Btw, tend to agree with the rest of your comment. I once dated a much shorter woman. I remember smelling the top of her scalp a lot. Nothing wrong with that, but I don’t remember kissing a lot. She eventually married someone else (someone of closer ethnic derivation, as it happens, so I guess you could say she agrees with you too.)

  120. @peterike

    Leeann Chin has had an “Asia-Fit” menu for a while, now.

    http://www.leeannchin.com/asia-fit

    But Leeann has the Pokemon advantages of being a) Chinese and b) dead.

  121. @Twinkie

    Little dogs live longer than big dogs.

    I bet they do… in Korea.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Twinkie
  122. utu says:

    Shorts shaming in France

    French People Don’t Wear Shorts & Subtly Insults Your Acid-Wash Cutoffs
    https://www.bustle.com/articles/72700-natalie-portman-says-french-people-dont-wear-shorts-subtly-insults-your-acid-wash-cutoffs

    Shorts vs. Pants: French People Don’t Wear Shorts
    https://frenchly.us/shorts-vs-pants-french-people-dont-wear-shorts/

    • Replies: @Alden
  123. @Cloudbuster

    Yeah, I think the Warsaw Pact vehicles had this problem of cramped crew spaces requiring more diminutive crews, but the Western AFVs are more capacious.

    As Twinkie says, nowadays it is more of an Air Force thing as shorter stockier guys hold up to G-forces better.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Jim Don Bob
  124. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

    Sperm banks have height requirements for donors:

    https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/9-reasons-your-sperm-isnt-good-enough-to-donate-w209421/

    4. You’re too short.

    Following insights from supply and demand, California Cryobank doesn’t take on donors who have a BMI outside the normal range. Among white donors, they also require their donors to be taller than 5’10”. For other ethnicities, including Hispanic and Asian, the height requirement is less stringent because there are fewer applicants. Brown has heard of additional limitations from other banks, including no redheads. California Cryobank doesn’t have that rule because they want a diverse donor pool. “You want to have as complete a catalog as possible and have as many options [as possible] for people,” Brown says. They usually have about 525 donors to choose from at any time.

  125. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

  126. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @prime noticer

    Weight can be changed though, unlike height.

  127. @Days of Broken Arrows

    You may already know this, but Mike Love’s brother Stan (6′ 9″) and his nephew Kevin (6′ 10″) have both played in the NBA.

  128. @Jack D

    Since all Americans are well nourished nowadays, height is going to increasingly be a proxy for genetics – Asians and Hispanics are disfavored. Apparently it hasn’t registered yet that heightism is really disguised racism.

    Once it does register, our government will start moving Asians and Hispanics out to tall neighborhoods so their children will grow taller.

    It will work best for some of those very young ones who will actually eat some of the magic dirt.

    On the other hand, if it doesn’t work, that will be disparate impact due to the heightism of their tall neighbors. Eventually everyone will be forced to believe that Asians and Hispanics are in fact just as tall as everyone else, but that they only appear shorter because of systemic heightism.

    Four fingers will be five, and 5’7″ will be 6’2″. Height will become a social construct — and here’s the real trick: White people won’t have any height at all.

    • LOL: L Woods
    • Replies: @anon
  129. As proof that life is just high school forever I offer this story. I was not tall in high school, maybe 5-10 at most. However, I kept growing until I was about 21 and ended up about 6-2. Even so, when someone describes me as tall I am surprised.

  130. @eded

    Whites and other ethnicities may be more comfortable around shorter hispanics especially when it comes to hiring them in jobs that bring them into private spaces such as gardener, landscaper etc…

    Good point.

    Hong Kong (where I live) and other Asian cities such as Singapore bring in hundreds of thousands of Filipinas and Indonesians as household help. Those two ethnicities must be among the world’s shortest people. This article (LINK) says that the average Filipina is 4′ 11″, and the average female Indonesian is 4′ 10″. These numbers certainly seem plausible to me.

    I think there’s something atavistic about dealing with household help. Giving orders to someone in your office is one thing; it’s quite different giving orders to someone who actually lives in your home, and my experience here suggests it makes lots of people unexpectedly uncomfortable.

    A desire for a plentiful supply of seemingly-tractable servants may be one of the deepest but least-admitted motivations for the open borders types.

  131. anon[240] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    I don’t remember seeing any dogs in Korea, large or small. On the plus side, I ran into maybe 2 guys taller than me (6-2) the whole time I was there, it was clean, safe, well-organized, the girls were primped up and quite beautiful, the food was good, and I was well on the way of learning the Korean alphabet in a week or so. However, people there seem to work very hard and late, and their idea of fun is getting drunk on soju or in beer-and-chicken joints. I’m sure I’m grossly oversimplifying.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Twinkie
  132. anon[240] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Another option is to enhance your height surgically, by having your femurs broken and then slowly stretching the set site as they heal. Popular among Russian models and gold diggers to enhance their appeal and earning potential. Not sure how well your muscles, tendons, blood vessels, nerves and overall balance adapt to that.

    • Replies: @Alden
  133. res says:
    @Twinkie

    On the other hand, sometimes height gain and increased lifespan go hand-in-hand

    Agreed. That’s what makes it an interesting question. I think there are competing effects.

    – Basic genetic goodness (sometimes called system integrity) and nutrition probably help both height and longevity.
    – Based on the consistency of the size/longevity relationship in animals there is probably a negative longevity effect for phenotypic height.

    As a hypothetical consider 4 genetic/environment cases (lower case height decreasing, upper case height increasing) for height and longevity. ge, gE, Ge, GE
    I wonder how longevity would vary among those. In particular gE vs. Ge.

  134. @Twinkie

    Twinkie, big dog little dog story. Guy walks into a biker bar and asks…”Who owns the Rottweiler outside?” Big, ugly biker responds…”I do, why you asking?” First guy says..” My dog killed your dog.” Biker says…”What type of dog do you own?” First guy stammers,”A chihuahua.” “A chihuahua! How the f**k did your chihuahua kill my Rottweiler?” “Well, I think my dog got stuck in your dog’s throat.”

  135. @prime noticer

    prime, just ask if they have a mug shot. Height chart on wall behind.

  136. @stillCARealist

    Who thinks like that? If the girl is hot I like 4 ft 11 or 6 ft 1. Do some people pine over dumpy girls because they were the perfect height for landholding or dancing?

    I imagine you might modify the definition of “hot” and get the same reading from women. A Heart Surgeon who is 5 ft 1 inch is pretty darn nice. If he is profiled in the local paper as a lifesaver he is nicer. If he is interviewed on CNN or FOX many times he is golden.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    , @Precious
  137. @Ibound1

    People tend to suss out intelligence through conversation, and a lot of us go for mates at our level. I have long wondered about successful, apparently smart, men who date and marry bimbos.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @Alden
    , @Anonymous
  138. @Ibound1

    Better than JackD’s replies. Especially if you don’t answer her height question at all.

  139. @Buzz Mohawk

    Meh.

    Not bimbos but hard core assortive mating is a recent phenomenon and largely suboptimal for both the species and the spouses.

    • Replies: @SFG
  140. dfordoom says: • Website

    There was often a class gap in height…

    In the past, when height was a fairly good class marker of better nurture, it made sense for women, who tend toward class hypergamy, to prefer taller men.

    I think you’ve explained everything that needs to be explained in those two sentences.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  141. @stillCARealist

    A good fit is nice, but with all the other variables between partners, it does not always happen. Besides, if you are petite and he is tall, he is likely to lift you up a lot and have some fun with you.

  142. dfordoom says: • Website
    @James Braxton

    is also socially acceptable to ridicule bald men.

    There’s lots of discrimination that is still not only socially acceptable but actively encouraged. Despising working-class people gets you virtue points. Despising rural people gets you virtue points. Despising people who went to non-prestigious schools gets you virtue points.

    Christians are fair game. You can ridicule them as much as you want. Doing so will earn you a whole stack of Woke virtue points. Of course Christians actually enjoy being humiliated.

    Republicans are fair game. But they’re like Christians – they deserve to be publicly humiliated.

    On the whole I’d say that discrimination is more acceptable today than it was fifty years ago.

  143. @foulkes

    Less experienced women assume there is a correlation. Sometimes they are right, of course 😉

    • Replies: @res
  144. I once shook Jimmy Carter’s hand on an airplane, and he is very short. He couldn’t be over 5’6″, and he was wearing cowboy boots and a ridiculous beltbuckle with a huge JC on it. From what I could tell in my several seconds of his kiss the ring tour around the aircraft, he seemed very focused on rank, and kind of sleazy in the way he looked my wife up and down. If what I saw was anything, his media image is very different from reality.

    There were two men standing in the aisle next to me for the whole flight from Amsterdam to New York who talked non-stop about their sexual conquests. I assume they were some sort of secret service flunkies, if there is such a thing. I noticed many men in suits and earpieces sitting on the plane, so I could be wrong. That was not a pleasant flight, between the security and the meatheads in the aisle.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    , @Alden
    , @Old Prude
  145. @dfordoom

    Most women also want the man to be dominant. A tall man appears more so.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  146. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Erik L

    I wouldn’t assume that favoring tall men is because it used to be a class marker. Could be, but it’s only a “Just So Story”. I assume that women’s preferences for taller men is an evolved instinct, but why it evolved will always be speculation (in the absence of a time machine).

    Women evolved to favour dominant men. Because in prehistoric times a dominant man could keep a woman and her children alive, and assure them of plentiful food.

    In prehistoric times the dominant men were most likely the biggest and the strongest and the fastest. And probably the tallest. As culture evolved male dominance came to be more about leadership, intelligence, verbal dexterity, ruthlessness and cunning. So women favoured those types of dominant men, and they still do.

    Women are attracted to the whole gamut of male dominance, height being just one aspect of that. If two men are equal in all other respects a woman will choose the taller man.

    That’s all completely obvious of course.

    What’s more interesting is whether men also prefer dominant men. I’d imagine that on the whole they are much more likely to follow a dominant man, much more likely to admire a dominant man, but also much more likely to see him as a serious sexual rival.

    Again all very obvious, but we live in a world in which the obvious doesn’t seem obvious to most people.

    • Replies: @SFG
  147. @OilcanFloyd

    Secret Service men have said Carter was the biggest jerk of all the presidents they worked for. Your description fits.

    Beware of a man who cultivates a public image of goodness. Same thing goes for people and their politics. The nicest, fairest people I have known and worked with have been conservative, while the dicks and snobs have tended to be liberal types.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  148. dfordoom says: • Website
    @obwandiyag

    People, and here we are talking about all white people, are stupid.

    I hate to say this but the evidence would seem to support your assertion. I think white people really are abnormally stupid. Appearing virtuous seems to be more important to them than protecting their own interests. They seem to be particularly conformist. And they seem to be very easily led. They’re also very inclined to miss the point, such as not spotting satire.

    I used to think it was just white Americans who were like this but now I suspect it’s whites in general.

    Of course it’s quite possible that it’s western culture that is at fault. Western civilisation has proved to be a failed civilisation.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @anon
  149. @The Alarmist

    LOL no not really. Sorry if it seems that way.

  150. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Ibound1

    Other countries seem less concerned with height than the US. Stalin and his whole gang were very short. Of course if you were taller than Stalin, he shortened you by a head. But is heightism a US thing?

    Well Americans tend to choose their presidents based on how they look on TV. They think that tall good-looking men will naturally make good presidents. Americans don’t elect ugly men as president.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Ibound1
  151. L Woods says:
    @Forbes

    That was a gag. But it’s notable that many apps ask for your height and income but of course, not your weight or bmi.

  152. MBlanc46 says:

    I do think that the opposition to this outrage has begun. A couple of years ago Mme B and I were in a drugstore in Shrewsbury, England. (Not a chemist, an American-style drugstore; I think it was a Boots, which has merged with the Chicago-based chain, Walgreen.) Whilst Mme made her purchases, I glanced at the magazine rack. The cover of some women’s magazine—Cosmopolitan, perhaps—announced an article calling on women to stop discriminating against short men. I haven’t seen anything else on the subject since, but, then, I don’t think that I’ve looked at the cover of a women’s magazine since.

  153. @slumber_j

    I’m only a hair over 5’5 and when I visit Wal Mart I’ll be taller than 80 percent of the other women around. On the other hand if I go walk around my former university probably 65 percent of the women walking around are my height or taller. Lower class people skew short.

    • Replies: @Anon7
    , @Alden
    , @Jack D
  154. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @sabril

    That, plus the fact that plain women can make up for it significantly by being nice and pleasant. Whereas a short guy being a nice guy just hurts him even more. He’s still short, but now he’s a pushover. But if he’s tough and mean, he’s just a short asshole. Basically, he has to be tough and mean AND wealthy and powerful.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  155. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Hypnotoad666

    But then again I don’t much about women, really.

    Don’t feel bad. Even women mostly don’t understand women.

  156. Anon7 says:
    @S. Anonyia

    I’ve been thinking that women who get to college have gotten taller in the last generation. I don’t have any stats for it.

    I keep thinking that all of the mothers encourage their daughters to do sports in high school, to keep them away from boys and to give them incentives to study (otherwise they get kicked off the team, their social group).

    This strategy actually works, because taller is better in most sports, and better nutrition and exercise maxes out height.

    Anyway, that’s my theory, which I think dovetails with yours.

  157. The answer is simple: only men are truly affected by short-shaming.

  158. SFG says:
    @Desiderius

    Yeah, the thing about assortative mating for brains is you get a lot of autism and Asperger’s. Probably the reason the average human IQ isn’t 120; too high and the social problems start to set in.

  159. SFG says:
    @dfordoom

    Depends on the guy and the situation.

    I generally avoid them if possible–why would I want to be bossed around and have stronger competition?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @Reg Cæsar
  160. SFG says:
    @sabril

    The women are thin though.

  161. @slumber_j

    I had the same kinds of experiences relocating to the NYC metro area from my college/home town area. Even among white people in CT, my experience is similar. It really stands out that Americans in different regions came from different parts of Europe:

    What is also interesting is women’s shoe heel heights in different states. I’m not sure what it means though:

    • Replies: @swamped
  162. @Tono Bungay

    No thoughts spared for the men who must deal with other men without the kids gloves applied to how women are treated.

  163. res says:
    @anon

    Please correct me here, but isn’t there a well-substantiated correlation of height with intelligence? It was my understanding this persisted, after controlling for childhood nutrition.

    Yes. There is an interesting analysis in https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3044837/ which looks at the relative contributions of genetics and un/shared environment. Basic summary:

    The correlation between height and intelligence is 0.176 (SE 0.015) in our sample, which is similar to what has been previously reported in the literature. The correlation between height and military aptitude is 0.101 (SE 0.016).

    These results suggest that 59% of the height–intelligence correlation is mediated by common environment, that 31% is due to additive genetic factors, and that 9% is due to unique environment. The results of the variance decomposition for height and military aptitude suggest that most of the correlation is accounted for by additive genetic factors (56%); the estimated share due to common environment appears quite large at 30%, but is not significantly different from zero.

    The study population was male Swedish conscripts.

    P.S. It would have been interesting to see intelligence-military aptitude as well for comparison. Too bad they did not do that given they had the data.

    P.P.S. While searching around for this I ran across an interesting article about the decline in intelligence among USMC officers:
    https://ndupress.ndu.edu/JFQ/Joint-Force-Quarterly-81/Article/702026/officers-are-less-intelligent-what-does-it-mean/

  164. Travis says:
    @Feryl

    in the United States 85% of men are shorter than 6′

    among white males less than 20% are 6′ or greater but most men who are 5’11” will claim to be 6′ so probably 30% of white men claim to be at least 6′

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  165. @scrivener3

    Do some people pine over dumpy girls because they were the perfect height for landholding

    Well, now that you mention it….

    “Don’t like her?! What’s wrong with her?! She’s beautiful. She’s rich. She’s got huge… tracts of land!”

  166. @Known Fact

    ZFG always a handy tool to have in one’s belt. Poured all those f*cks saved into his music and love of life.

  167. @Buzz Mohawk

    Generally true, but I had good experiences with Carter at his bible studies and working on houses with him. He fell in with a bad crowd but is pretty temperamentally conservative.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  168. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Ibound1

    If I were 30 years younger and single (not being over 6 feet tall) I would honestly reply and ask for her IQ. That was just as important to me for attraction as height is for a woman.

    Really? For me the least important thing about a woman has always been her IQ. Looks, personality and character matter. But IQ, just not a factor. In fact a high IQ woman is probably going to be more of a feminist harridan nightmare than a lower IQ one.

    Of course the most important thing of all is that a woman should not have a college education.

  169. @SFG

    Because there are better men than I and I value their guidance and assistance.

    Together we can crush a lot more of the competition than I can alone.

  170. @Anonymous

    Nope, just reasonably dominant and light-hearted.

  171. res says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    It looks like there is some disagreement about the correlation in the research literature as well ; )
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/how-we-do-it/201501/penis-size-matters

    This paper looks interesting: Penis size interacts with body shape and height to influence male attractiveness
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3637716/

    For example:

    Here we show, based upon female assessment of digitally projected life-size, computer-generated images, that penis size interacts with body shape and height to determine male sexual attractiveness. Positive linear selection was detected for penis size, but the marginal increase in attractiveness eventually declined with greater penis size (i.e., quadratic selection). Penis size had a stronger effect on attractiveness in taller men than in shorter men. There was a similar increase in the positive effect of penis size on attractiveness with a more masculine body shape (i.e., greater shoulder-to-hip ratio).


    Here’s the caption:

    Contour map of the fitness surface (red: more attractive) for (A) penis length and shoulder-to-hip ratio (height controlled) and (B) penis length and height (shoulder-to-hip ratio controlled) (1 = mean attractiveness).

  172. dfordoom says: • Website
    @prime noticer

    women’s value is not tied to height.

    But it sure as hell is tied to age. That’s the one reality women can’t escape.

    If a woman is 38 years old and stunning then being stunning isn’t going to do her any good. Her looks are already fading. Another five years and it’s over for her. No sane man is going to marry her.

    If a man is old but rich and powerful he can still get pretty much any woman he wants. If a woman is old but rich and powerful she’s going to have to pay for it.

    No matter how much power women have in modern society time is still against them. If they haven’t found a good husband by age 30 their chances of doing so are slim and diminishing rapidly.

    And by the age of 40 no man is even going to notice their existence.

    • Replies: @Alden
  173. @Hypnotoad666

    Shirter than average women are more reproductively successfull than average height women due to a preference for smaller females. Your comment “average and tall women are appreciated” doesn’t match the reality — non-short women are DOOMED.

    https://www.livescience.com/22179-evolutionary-battle-sexes-height.html

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  174. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Most women also want the man to be dominant. A tall man appears more so.

    The fact that women (for the most part) want to be dominated by a man is one of the many things you’re not allowed to say these days. You’re not allowed to say it because it’s true.

    • Replies: @Meretricious
  175. @Desiderius

    That’s interesting. I was told he did some good charity work in my wife’s part of Europe. (When she was a little girl she thought he was handsome too LOL.) I did Habitat once, though I know that’s not much.

    I should reserve judgement since I don’t know and it’s not for me to judge anyway. Thanks.

  176. Alden says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    What do you think of the idea that big nosed men have big penises?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  177. Alden says:
    @utu

    She’s right French men don’t wear baggy shirts and T shirts like chubby toddlers do. They also wear fitted shirts tucked into their pants which American men can’t do any more because of obesity.

  178. Alden says:
    @anon

    Not sure, but I think that only increases height about one inch. It’s a lengthy ordeal requiring months flat on your back. It doesn’t seem worth it for such a short increase.

    The Chinese version involved sawing the calf in half and knitting it back together. Slowly and painfully

    • Replies: @anon
  179. Alden says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    I’ve stood right next to jimmy carter and had longish conversations with him and you’re right he’s very short. His wife’s about the same height as he is

    Former Ca governor jerry brown is also about 5’6. Willie Brown is about my height, 5’4. Former Senator Barbara Boxer is a midget about 4’10. Nancy Pelosi 5 ft or 5’1. Her husbands about 6’2. Feinstein’s tall maybe 5’9.

    I don’t understand why so many commenters have written that women
    “choose” taller men. Whatever ethnicity, the men are on average several inches taller than women. It’s very difficult for the average 5’4 American White woman to find a man her height or shorter. Same way it’s difficult for a 6’2 man to find a 6 ft woman.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  180. @anon

    I don’t remember seeing any dogs in Korea, large or small…

    …in beer-and-chicken joints.

    How sure are you that it was chicken?

    • Replies: @anon
  181. Alden says:
    @S. Anonyia

    What about the Asian women in universities? Some of the California universities are so full of Asians they might as well be in China.

  182. Alden says:
    @dfordoom

    We had numerous presidents before 1950 and the 1960 election was the first one that featured a lot of pre Election Day coverage

    Teddy Roosevelt George Washington Lincoln and others were ugly.

  183. Alden says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Do you know any smart successful men who married bimbos?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  184. @Alden

    Same way it’s difficult for a 6’2 man to find a 6 ft woman.

    I’m 6’2″ and I dated a 6’1″ woman. That was interesting. I can even agree with another commenter that there are some nice things about having similar heights, but 6’1″ is just too tall in a woman, at least for me. I hope she found an NBA player.

    • Replies: @Alden
  185. @Colin Wright

    It’s all white; but the men are noticeably short, on average.

    You’d think that it would be the opposite. After all, logging was the historical occupation around here.

    There’s no advantage to being tall in logging; you cut down trees from the ground.

  186. Alden says:
    @dfordoom

    The old rich and powerful men don’t pay for their younger women?

    Bezos just divorced his 40ish wife for a 40ish girlfriend Jerry Hall married Murdoch when she was about 60.
    Trump’s first wife Ivana re married when she was in her late 40s. Melania Trump married Donald in what you consider her old age of 35. Meghan Markell married Prince Harry in what you consider her old age of 37. Dianne Feinstein’s present husband had recently divorced a wife about 15 years younger than Dianne when he married her.

    You need to stop reading People magazine. No, if you read People magazine it features many stories about 4o to 60 year old women getting married.

  187. @Alden

    I knew one very well, and there are plenty of famous examples. It is a stereotype based on truth, as stereotypes tend to be.

    Let’s use the term trophy in the place of bimbo, if it will make you happy.

    That would include our president’s wife. I can’t imagine what those two talk about.

    • Replies: @Alden
  188. Alden says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    My point was that it’s just ridiculous for commenters to write that the average 5’4 White woman “chooses” men taller than she. Almost all White men are several inches taller than the average White woman.

    Men are taller than women. Chinese have straight black hair. Africans have kinky black hair. It snows every winter in many parts of the earth. It never snows in many parts of the earth. Men are taller than women. Facts are facts. Women don’t choose taller men. Taller men are what’s available, just as ski slopes are available in Colorado but not Mississippi.

    Men are taller than women. You all might as well say women choose men who have shave or grow beards. Men are taller than women. That’s all.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  189. Alden says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I believe our presidents wife speaks and reads 4 languages and has a BA degree . She’s not a bimbo. She’s educated.

    Does your friend consider his wife a bimbo or is that just your opinion? And how can you base your opinions on just one couple you consider an intelligent man bimbo combo.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    , @Jack D
  190. @Alden

    Never heard that one. It seems as likely as toucans having big brains.

    What is clear is that overall human penis size correlates with our big brains. Our species is well endowed in both areas. This makes sense, because the brain has to get through the birth canal, and the, um “impregnation shaft” has to fit well enough for sex. Big dicks = big brains.

    What do you think of the idea that big brained men have big penises?

  191. Twinkie says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Weight-cutting was indeed a very serious problem in the sport at one time, but the culture has changed.

    I agree it is changing, but only very slowly at the lower levels. Not everyone is going to get Cael Sanderson as a coach, not by a long shot, especially among the lower age cohorts. There are, pardon my language, a lot of dumb shit coaches at low levels of wrestling.

    By the way, the problem used to be very acute in other grappling sports as well, and they are also moving away from weight-cutting for youngsters. U.S. Grappling (Jujitsu Gi and no Gi submission grappling), for example, no longer has pre-determined weight classes for children. The event organizers simply weigh them at the event and cluster by age and weight as appropriate.

  192. Twinkie says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    Dehydration and calorie-restriction are MUCH worse for youngsters than men in their prime. They stunt the growth of the former.

  193. Twinkie says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    I bet they do… in Korea.

    I get the joke, but in all seriousness, ask any veterinarian. Smaller breeds have longer lifespans than larger breeds.

    And dog consumption has pretty much cratered in South Korea and is about to be outlawed (sale of dog meat is already curtailed). Meanwhile pet ownership (including of dogs) has skyrocketed. Koreans (in Korea) of today are quite SWPL.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  194. @Alden

    . . . Bezos just divorced his 40ish wife for a 40ish girlfriend . . .

    Not exactly: Bezos just divorced his 50ish wife for a 50ish girlfriend.

    Both the outgoing Mrs B and the incoming girlfriend are 49.

    This reinforces the point you’re making.

    • Replies: @Alden
  195. Anon[306] • Disclaimer says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Ejection seats tend to be more dangerous if your neck lies too far from a particular place on the seat, so there is an ideal height for pilots. This is kind of silly, because the added risk is only like one percent, most pilots never use as ejection seat, and the core job is so dangerous that it’s kind of pussy to be worrying about tiny marginal risks.

    Runway models are all the same size because the samples are at that point pre production one of a kind garments that are all made to one size. Only later is the pattern graded to different sizes. For avant garde hefty bag style fashion there is more leeway in model size.

  196. swamped says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    well, maybe it’s only co-incidental but the highest women’s shoe heel heights seem to be located in states (& a territory) with the largest numbers of Hispanics. But that still doesn’t account for the FLOTUS. As if Melania isn’t already tall enough (for a woman) she also never seems to appear in public, no matter what high-priced, high fashion outfit she’s decked out in, without the highest of high heels to match. She’s often the tallest one in many White House photo’s, towering over many visiting dignitaries. Whereas Frau Merkel always looks so short & dumpy.
    And for what it’s worth, the late J.K.Galbraith, renowned liberal economist & Harvard prof., was 6’8″ & lived to be nearly 100. A gentleman & a scholar to his last day. No shame in that.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    , @njguy73
  197. Old Prude says:
    @res

    The thing about longevity is that all the best living is when you’re young. Sure, late middle age with all your physical posssession and stability is nice, but those last fifteen years are just a constant visit to medical professionals and regret. Tall people had it best when it was the best.

    • Replies: @res
  198. Old Prude says:
    @Feryl

    I know of know fat women who have become slim. Well maybe Marie Osmond. I know quite a few fat guys who lost all their weight.

  199. @Alden

    I wasn’t arguing with you. I just had to post another personal anecdote because I’m a narcissist. At least I stopped short of mentioning that sex was rather enjoyable with a woman whose body was almost as long as mine.

  200. Old Prude says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    The gates of Hell can’t open too soon to welcome Jimmy Carter…

  201. Twinkie says:
    @anon

    I don’t remember seeing any dogs in Korea

    I have trouble believing that you’ve been to Korea.

    • Replies: @anon
  202. @Alden

    I believe our presidents wife speaks and reads 4 languages and has a BA degree . She’s not a bimbo. She’s educated.

    LOL. You fell for the hype, but that’s okay. We don’t want to be too hard on the First Lady.

    The Third Mrs. Trump dropped out of art school, and if her English is any example, she probably speaks 3 of those “4 languages” poorly. My wife says they have an expression in Eastern Europe for the way Melania speaks. They call it “the kitchen language.”

    Americans are clueless about Mrs. Trump because they generally are wowed and ignorant about exotic foreigners. Melania looks great, and there is nothing wrong with her, but she is not much more than a trophy who dabbles in fashion.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @Anonymous
  203. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    Murdoch was 85 when he married Jerry Hall, old enough to be her father. Bezos’s new girlfriend has a past of sleeping around with pro athletes and has several kids. Bezos’s case is atypical. Most men don’t go for 50 year old women with such histories. The man Ivana remarried was in his 50s and they were married for less than 2 years. He was regarded as a gold digging gigolo type, and she actually sued him for trying to get at her money. Trump was 60 when he married Melania, old enough to be her father. Markle and Feinstein are hardly representative examples.

    All your examples are either of men marrying women young enough to be their daughters, or unrepresentative cases.

  204. @Feryl

    But that isn’t the point

    The point is that there aren’t many “super-heavyweights” walking around

    There are, however, many men of short or average height. And those men should wrestle. That way they can handle themselves, and the taller dudes who aren’t “super-heavyweights” (which is most of them)

  205. @Twinkie

    I have to tell you, there might be a lot of dumb shit coaches at the lower levels, but I’m just not seeing that as much anymore where I live. Which is good.

  206. @dfordoom

    You don’t want your wife to be dim, but it’s nicer if you’re a bit smarter. Not too much.

    “Of course the most important thing of all is that a woman should not have a college education.”

    Agreed. But it’s getting harder and harder to find a bright girl sans university, especially after the UK made nursing a college-based degree course rather than a hospital-based vocational course. Just another of the blessings brought about by voting for a Conservative government.

    Our current Conservative administration, having betrayed the result of the Brexit referendum, are making LGBTQWERTYUOP education compulsory for toddlers, and about to take control of the UK internet in order to criminalise dissent.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jaymcgregor/2017/05/30/conservative-internet-regulation-plans-are-quietly-terrifying/

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  207. @Buzz Mohawk

    Marla Maples is a bimbo. Melania’s not.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  208. Brutusale says:
    @The Alarmist

    I’ve shaken hands with both McCain and Dukakis. Both are shorter than the official line. It’s like the old high school football programs, where listed heights and weights were always bigger than the reality.

  209. Jack D says:
    @Alden

    I believe our presidents wife speaks and reads 4 languages

    Too bad one of them isn’t English. Melania is our 1st immigrant First Lady. Another job Americans won’t do?

    and has a BA degree

    Melania studied architecture and design at the University of Ljubljana for one year before she dropped out. The job of fashion models is to look good. They are not required to have any brains. They are literally dummies. Some do and some don’t but since it’s not a job requirement and high intelligence is rare, most don’t.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @dfordoom
  210. Ibound1 says:
    @dfordoom

    That’s been working out really great. Television might have doomed the American Republic.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  211. Jack D says:
    @S. Anonyia

    Your college is also probably whiter than the average Wal-Mart. Latinas tend to be on the short side, but they make it up in width.

  212. Ibound1 says:
    @dfordoom

    I don’t consider feminist harridans “intelligent” in the least. I married a girl who had graduated a well known “elite” college which she thought was a liberal mad-house. All good.

  213. @dfordoom

    You’re not allowed to say it because it’s true.

    Well yes. Consider that denying the moon landings just gets you laughed at, while there’s a number of accurate observations that can get you thrown in jail.

  214. @larry lurker

    With men or women?

    No way I’m attracted to a man in high heels, Halloween party or not.

    • Replies: @larry lurker
  215. @Desiderius

    Agreed. Marla fits the bimbo stereotype. Melania fits the trophy stereotype. Trophy > bimbo.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  216. @Sam Coulton

    https://www.livescience.com/22179-evolutionary-battle-sexes-height.html

    That’s a very interesting article, which makes an insightful point about how traits evolve when the same genes express themselves in both men and women.

    Men and women are sexually dimorphic, meaning there are obvious bodily differences in size and shape between the sexes. But we also share most of our genome, meaning that evolution has a limited toolbox for creating this dimorphism. That can lead to conflict in which evolutionary forces act on males and females in opposite directions.

    The findings support the idea that the sexes are locked in a push-and-pull battle over height. Here’s how it works: Say a woman is shorter than average. This makes it more likely she’ll have children and pass on her genes. If she has a daughter and a son, they’re likely to be short, thanks to their mother’s genes. That’s good for the daughter — evolution is pushing her toward her ideal height to pass on her genes — but bad for her son, as he would be more likely to reproduce if he had a few more inches.

    This pattern happens over an entire population, not just a single family. What that means is that as the population as a whole gets shorter because of short women reproducing more, everyone is moving away from the ideal height for men. That increases the evolutionary pressure for men, so that taller guys reproduce more than their shorter brethren, pushing the heights of the next generation back into the average range.

    I suppose the ideal evolutionary solution would be a gene that triggers height only in male offspring — e.g., one that is only triggered by the release of testosterone at male puberty.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  217. @dfordoom

    Do you really want a wife you can’t talk to? You read or watch something and want to discuss it, but she is only interested in simple, girly stuff.

    Sounds like the type of guy who winds up in an affair in his 40’s.

    I said this before in another comment thread: the more a man and woman have in common, the better their relationship. Being able to read the same books and appreciate the same cultural tastes is pretty foundational…. even for just a basic friendship.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  218. Precious says:
    @scrivener3

    Who thinks like that? If the girl is hot I like 4 ft 11 or 6 ft 1. Do some people pine over dumpy girls because they were the perfect height for landholding or dancing?

    As a short guy, I have to ask you tall guys to kindly pair up with the tall 6 ft 1 women and leave me the 4 ft 11. I totally agree with what you are saying, I am just asking for a little consideration.

    I had to wear cowboy boots for the duration of one entire relationship just so I could squeeze out that extra half inch and maintain the facade. We are talking inside the house and outside.

    And because someone brought this up in the comments before, if any of you tall commenters here on the blog happen to be at the grocery store when I am and need help reaching the bottom shelf…I am your guy.

  219. @dfordoom

    Appearing virtuous seems to be more important to them than protecting their own interests.

    If you don’t think they’re protecting their own interests I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. They’re not protecting yours and mine, but their own get the full Aunt Becky treatment.

  220. @Travis

    most men who are 5’11” will claim to be 6′

    Six feet seems to be the magic number to be “tall” in America. But what’s the deal in Europe?

    Do they go out of their way to round up to 183 centimeters? The metric system seems more egalitarian in this regard, somehow.

    • Replies: @Ola
  221. @Jack D

    Melania has an exceptional amount of the same kind of intelligence/wisdom that Trump has, which is why they do in fact appreciate one another. Trump would have been well served to stick with Ivana, but from Marla he did well to land on Melania.

    The egregious and widespread overvaluing of intellect as an end in itself has been producing results so increasingly absurd that the people elected someone from the opposite pole to rein it in.

    • LOL: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Buzz Mohawk
  222. Jack D says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    Why are shorter women better able to reproduce?

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    , @res
  223. @Buzz Mohawk

    Fair enough.

    If he’d have gone straight from Ivana to Melania that would be a trophy. As it is she was a nice recovery and good match.

    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk
  224. @Jack D

    Why are shorter women better able to reproduce?

    Good question. The article left that part out, although it claimed the correlation was based on empirical data.

    In modern western societies, studies have found that women who are on the short side tend to have more children. In contrast, average-height men do the best, reproductively speaking, outpacing short and tall men in number of children fathered, Stulp said.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  225. Jack D says:
    @Desiderius

    I wouldn’t say that Trump is from the “opposite pole” – he has a degree from an Ivy League university and was the head of a complex business. Melania OTOH…. let’s just say Trump didn’t marry her for her brains.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Desiderius
  226. Jack D says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    Maybe the height thing is just a proxy for race, e.g. Latino women have more children than whites?

    Also “modern Western societies” have existed for a blink of evolutionary time, not long enough to make a big dent in the gene pool.

    Also the latter part of the explanation makes even less sense:

    That increases the evolutionary pressure for men, so that taller guys reproduce more than their shorter brethren, pushing the heights of the next generation back into the average range.

    What is the mechanism that causes tall guys to reproduce more?

    It’s nice that they are trying to use evolutionary biology to explain what appear to be conscious human decisions but I’m not at all convinced. They seem to be taking some leaps of faith.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    , @Reg Cæsar
  227. @Desiderius

    Melania has an exceptional amount of the same kind of intelligence/wisdom that Trump has, which is why they do in fact appreciate one another.

    Not to argue too much, because I see your reasoning (You have an exceptional amount of intelligence) but I ask: Where did you get that idea? I had the same thought you do until I realized it was me projecting what I enjoy in my own marriage.

    Donald does have a kind of smarts that is becoming increasingly hard to see and define, but does Melania?

    I often have felt sorry for her, because I don’t sense that he appreciates her enough. My wife agrees, and she has more sense than I do, especially the female kind. We both noticed when in an interview during the campaign Mr. Trump was asked what Mrs. Trump does, and he said, “She’s raising her child.” Not “She is raising our son.” He made her sound like a hen sitting on an egg.

    They really do appear to live separate lives that only intersect when they want them to. Very often she does not accompany him in situations where First Ladies are normally with the president. This makes the optics bad and they should know better.

    Our nation and media have been very unfair to Melania Trump as First Lady. My wife and I were discussing how if they weren’t out to destroy her husband, she would have been on the cover of every magazine by now, looking great. That’s normally what they do for First Ladies. She should be celebrated for her style the way Jackie Kennedy was.

    You see? I’m not knocking her. I’m just being realistic.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @Desiderius
  228. @Jack D

    They seem to be taking some leaps of faith

    Agreed. This could be junk science as to the specific issue of height.

    But I mainly though it raised an interesting issue as to how natural selection would operate when the same gene has different survival value in male vs. female phenotypes.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  229. Anonymous[332] • Disclaimer says:
    @prime noticer

    Male rape isn’t going to result in pregnancy so is a problem for the individual man not the whole community.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    , @Alden
  230. Jack D says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    Human males and females (not to mention apes) have preserved their differences in height for millions of years so there are apparently evolutionary mechanisms available to make females smaller than males despite only the minor difference between male and female genomes. The most obvious one is that the onset of puberty is earlier in females and puberty triggers a decrease in growth hormone. As we can see in countries where the average height is tall, it’s possible to raise the average height while preserving the height difference (and probably if there was an evolutionary advantage this could be made even greater – e.g. male gorillas are twice the size of females). So I don’t buy their argument at all. If there were real advantages to shorter females AND taller males humans would have just ended up more like gorillas.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Alden
  231. @Twinkie

    Smaller breeds have longer lifespans than larger breeds

    .

    Maybe, but aren’t the longest-lived breeds the ones closest in size to the original domesticated dog, a canine golden mean?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  232. @Jack D

    What is the mechanism that causes tall guys to reproduce more?

    Come again?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @anon
  233. res says:
    @Old Prude

    A good point. An important question there though is how does “longevity” correlate with functional longevity? Consider living to age 70 vs. age 80. If the latter is spreading out the same functionality over 80 years rather than 70 then that is a clear win. If instead they are the same up until age 70 and the person who lives to 80 just has 10 more years of the downward slope then you are right.

    Reality probably lies somewhere between those two extremes. Just where is a worthwhile question. I wish there was better data available for assessing functional longevity.

  234. Since short women are regarded as cute, while short men are shamed, short shaming is not gender neutral, and in this way, it is no different from other aspects of progressivism and its acolytes, playing always to the cause’s media-worthy and politically useful favorites.

  235. Jack D says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    My wife’s bearded rabbinic great grandfather had 12 kids and the guy must have been 5-2 not counting his hat.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @stillCARealist
  236. res says:
    @Jack D

    Why are shorter women better able to reproduce?

    Good question. I think this is the paper: https://www.gertstulp.com/pdf/2012_Stulp_et_al_AJHB_Female_Height.pdf
    The effect is of the order of 3.1 children at 150cm to 2.5 children at 180cm. It appears to be mediated by things like age at first marriage, education, and income.

    The regression coefficient is about -0.008 children per cm (which seems low given the numbers above) decreasing to -0.005 after adding education and income to the model.

    Some more information from the conclusion:

    Our review of studies on the relationship between female height and reproductive success, however (Table 3), confirmed our finding that across Western populations female height is negatively associated with reproductive success, as five out of nine studies documented a similar negative effect. The four remaining studies in Western populations found no effect of height, which was likely due to small sample size and hence low statistical power to detect an effect of the magnitude we found in our study.
    In non-Western populations the relationship between height and reproductive success was more variable. There can be different causes for this variation.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  237. Anonymous[332] • Disclaimer says:
    @Prodigal son

    Yeah, because beyond a certain point a tall guy stops being attractive and becomes a freak.

  238. Jack D says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    IIRC, when it comes to dog lifespan, the smaller the better. Wolves are bigger than dogs and the first domesticated dogs must have been slightly runty, docile wolves but at least as big as say a husky. The really miniature breeds must have come much later.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  239. Jack D says:
    @res

    So based on the .005 coefficient, going from 5-0 to 5-8, roughly -1 SD to +1 SD (which accounts for most of the population – there aren’t that many 6 ft tall women) decreases the average # of children by .1 once you discount for education and income. It doesn’t seem like a very big effect if it really exists at all. Maybe very tall women are slightly less feminized since female hormones turn off growth at puberty.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
  240. anon[240] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie

    Why would I lie about it? To impress a bunch of anonymous commenters whom I’ll never meet that I’ve been to Korea? Millions of people have been to Korea. I just don’t remember seeing any dogs, not saying there weren’t any. I’m sure there were some, but I was paying more attention to foxes than to dogs.
    I also had a front-row view to a Korean mob pre-wedding reception, if you can call it that, while sitting in a hotel lobby. Lots of fancy German cars were arriving , with dozens and dozens of these stocky guys getting out and milling about. They were repeatedly bowing to other stocky guys, over and over. I was confused and asked what was going on. It was explained to me that these guys were the Korean mob.

  241. Anonymous[332] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Women who marry successful men clearly aren’t stupid, no matter how they talk and behave. The ‘stupid’ women are the ones unable to do this – the fatties, single moms with mulatto children, druggies, and others who by their appearance and behavior repel such men.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Alden
  242. anon[240] • Disclaimer says:
    @dfordoom

    Easter Europeans are far less interested in virtue signalling.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @dfordoom
  243. @Jack D

    Miniature breeds are notoriously pampered. Indeed, that’s the only reason they exist. How much of the longer lifespan is environmental?span

    Indoor cars live longer than outdoor ones. With rabbits, the difference is even greater. Something like seven times as long.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  244. anon[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    One inch in the right spot makes a big difference. For women, having longer legs relative to their torso is critical, because it is a femininity cue. So it’s not just the gain in height, it increases your femininity as well, critical for those hunting for modeling jobs and rich men.

  245. @Anonymous

    Yeah, because beyond a certain point a tall guy stops being attractive and becomes a freak.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @prosa123
  246. @SFG

    I generally avoid them if possible–why would I want to be bossed around and have stronger competition?

    Would you be happier in Cameroon or New Guinea?

    • Replies: @anon
  247. anon[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    LOL, fairly certain, given the shape of the bones. My very first ‘Korean’ meal consisted of fried chicken and German beer, because I was too tired to walk around, these beer-and-chicken joints are everywhere in Seoul and one next to the hotel was open very late.

  248. Jack D says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/health/how-long-do-dogs-live/

    No one really knows why small dogs live longer than large ones. Generally speaking larger animals (elephants) live longer than small ones (mice). There is some speculation that since all dogs reach full size at about the same age, a big dog is like a house that is put up too quickly and turns out shoddy. But it takes a lot longer to grow an elephant than to grow a mouse.

    All animals live much longer under domestication than they do in the wild.

  249. anon[745] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Reg Caesar, you are a funny guy. That’s two LOLs in one comment thread.
    I come here for Steve’s droll insights and stay for the smart and funny commenters. You can learn more from commenters here than in any college or grad course.

  250. @stillCARealist

    Both. But after checking Google Images I actually meant platform boots, my bad. Big difference.

  251. anon[745] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    I guess the poor guy was not taught the Catholic ‘rhythm method’ of contraception.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
  252. anon[218] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    What I haven’t seen mentioned here is that women not only have a smaller mean height, but a smaller SD and a tighter distribution even accounting for the smaller SD.

  253. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    “Speaks X languages” is used very liberally in the US. It’s applied to people who might just have very basic conversational ability.

    It’s unlikely that she “reads” 4 languages fluently. She probably “reads” them in the sense that they’re written in the Latin alphabet which she obviously understands and can make out many of the words and cognates. But even an intelligent monolingual American can do the same with French or Spanish and a dictionary. She probably can’t read those 4 languages fluently at an advanced level.

    I don’t think she’s a bimbo though, at least not in public. A bimbo is a woman who’s unashamed of or comfortable about, or even revels in, revealing or flaunting her ignorance and lack of refinement. She’s not like that, and grew up in a more conservative, traditional society where that doesn’t really fly.

    • Replies: @prosa123
  254. anon[218] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    I missed a letter, meant to say ‘EasterN’, not ‘Easter’. Though the statement probably applies Easter-celebrating Europeans just as much.

  255. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @MEH 0910

    Bird is 6’9″. NBA “big guys” are typically 6’10” and up. Bird is huge and certainly a “big guy” relative to the rest of society though.

  256. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Prodigal son

    6’1″, 6’2″ seems to be the limit. It’s hard to fake being 6’4″ and above, since those heights start getting very rare in real life. Whereas there’s a lot of guys that cluster in the 5’10” to 6’2″ zone, and depending on footwear and social setting, a 5’11” guy can fake being 6′ or 6’1″.

  257. anon[920] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Wadlow didn’t live to a ripe old age. Neither did John Rogan (8-9), Manute Bol (7-7), Alex Sizonenko (7-11), Vladimir Tkachenko (7-3), Wilt (reportedly 7-4, though listed at 7-1). Wilt was the exception, being a freakishly good athlete in addition to being freakishly tall.
    Gheorghe Muresan, Shawn Bradley, Yao, Chuck Nevitt (all 7-5 or taller), however, are still kicking around.

    But there must be a big difference between supertall people fit enough to play pro basketball, and the really freakishly tall ones. Hardly any in the range of >8′ have made it past 50. But of course, none was healthy enough to play basketball, either, despite their great height advantage.

  258. anon[920] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    That’s a tough choice between a burning tire around your neck and being speared and ending up in a cookpot. I’ve heard first-hand accounts from a missionary about the latter place. Apparently the aboriginals can be your friends one minute and then spear you when angered the next.
    Cameroon produces good soccer and basketball players, so there’s that.

  259. @Jack D

    My FIL’s father was 4’8″, and produced 10 children, all of them taller than he.

    They came from the stock of little, Welsh miners.

  260. @Anonymous

    When one discovers that his last name is Comey and his first James?

  261. prosa123 says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Robert Wadlow, the tallest-ever person of documented height, who came within an inch of nine feet. He died at age 22 from an infected foot blister.

  262. Cortes says:

    This never gets old

  263. In response to all this discussion of female matting/attractiveness, I’ll go by my life experience judging women’s revealed preferences:

    Short-ish but good looking guys do better than tall but ugly guys. Within reason, of course. There seems to be a point – around 5-5 or 5-6 – where looks will do less to make up for lack of height. Also, guys that are overly tall (usually above 6-4) do worse than guys that are ideal – or “handsome” – tall (6-1 to 6-2). And, of course, power and status trumps everything.

    To summarize:

    Power and status, but if all else is equal >

    Looks (to a degree, and excluding really short men), but if all else is equal >

    Height (but not too tall, with an ideal of about 6-1 , 6-2)

    I’m a little biased being a typical Jew at barely 5-9 barefoot (at least when I was young). That said, in my early 20’s I noticed that guys that were 5-7 and really good looking did considerably better than guys that were 6-1 and ugly. So, again, moderately short and good looking > tall.

    Maybe the next post should be ugly shaming!

    On a side note, I knew a guy in my 20s that was 6-8, and he had real issues with women. Petty normal middle-class professional, but I think he would have had more luck if he was as tall as me. I’m guessing that women’s aversion to freakishly tall (or short) people is connected to the attractiveness of averageness. Both sexes tend be attracted to averagness in features.

  264. L Woods says:
    @Anonymous

    Being cuckolded is objectively far worse than being raped…and it’s still just “funny.” Try again.

  265. Ola says: • Website
    @Hypnotoad666

    I’d say 185+ cm is considered tall in northern Europe, but on Tinder the magic number is 180 cm. “You’re over 180” or “I’m 178, you’re taller!” are very common on profile bios. I guess it is pretty common for 179 guys to claim 180, but exaggerating with a whole inch is common only for guys below 170.

    No, one care about six feet in Europe and I very rarely see girls requiring 185 or 190 men. On the other hand, there are plenty of 180+ girls here in Sweden and they often (but certainly not always!) want a guy who is taller.

  266. Alden says:
    @Anonymous

    I agree. Buzz is just being a misogynist women hater. He hates pretty women and calls them bimbos. He despises poor ugly trashy women as well.

  267. Alden says:
    @Jack D

    I didn’t know that. Maybe that’s why I’m 2 inches shorter than my sisters about 8 months earlier puberty.

    A lot of those short obese Hispanic Indian girls reach puberty at 10. And stay 4’10.

  268. Alden says:
    @Anonymous

    But male rape results in more injuries and STDs. Few female rapes result in pregnancy. I don’t think there’s much difference. Far more male victims are injured than women get pregnant.

    They should be treated equally.

  269. Alden says:
    @Jack D

    How do you know why he married her?

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  270. Alden says:
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    I Thanks. I didn’t read the articles about his love life very carefully.

  271. Alden says:
    @Anonymous

    Ever met the Wives of Microsoft?

    I mean the White ones married to the White men recruited in the early 1980s who built the company, not the Indians and Asians.

    These are by any standards the wives of highly intelligent math engineering successful men. The average White Microsoft wife is about a 4 on a scale of 10. I’m not talking about a few individuals. I mean a couple hundred observed at big parties and events. Those are the only mass observations of the wives of rich and successful White men I’ve ever made. These are the execs and designers and architects whatever a computer architect is, not coders.

  272. @Almost Missouri

    In the early 00s, I was at a convention where they had a Bradley on display that you could get into. I got into the drivers “seat” which was a small compartment in the left front of the vehicle that I had to crawl into. I’m 5’9″ and I remember thinking how the F am I gonna get out of here if this things on fire.

    God bless the Armor guys.

  273. @Ibound1

    Television might have doomed the American Republic.

    Television is a pernicious force on society. It kills socialization among groups (“Shh. I can’t hear the TV) and it confuses people about what is real.

    Don’t get me started on its relentless promotion of homos, trannies, mixed race couples, NAM executives and scientists, etc.

    I turn mine on for the Masters and the New England Patriots Invitational (aka the Super Bowl), but that’s about it.

  274. @swamped

    ..the late J.K.Galbraith, renowned liberal economist & Harvard prof., was 6’8″ & lived to be nearly 100. A gentleman & a scholar to his last day.

    Maybe, but he was wrong about almost everything.

    • Agree: Desiderius
  275. prosa123 says:
    @Anonymous

    “Speaks X languages” is used very liberally in the US. It’s applied to people who might just have very basic conversational ability.

    Most people in Luxembourg speak four languages, and speak them very well.

  276. prosa123 says:
    @mmack

    The Sperry Ball Turret. This was an eyeball shaped manned turret mounted to the belly of Boeing B-17 Flying Fortresses and Consolidated B-24 Liberators … Wiki says “typically the shortest crew member” manned the turret. I thought I read nobody taller than 5’6” could fit in it.

    From my mother’s sleep I fell into the State,
    And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze.
    Six miles from earth, loosed from its dream of life,
    I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters.
    When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose.

    – The Death of the Ball Turret Gunner
    by Randall Jarrell

  277. @Jack D

    You’re having trouble following my arguments lately, Jack.

    I said intellect as an end in itself. For Trump intellect is purely instrumental and only finds meaning when connected to a specific purpose, such as effectively heading up a complex business or making America Great Again. Likewise Melania devotes a great deal of her considerable intellect to maintaining a prescence that hearkens back to Jacqueline Bouvier at an age when most women are headed toward Hillaryville.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  278. @Buzz Mohawk

    I realized it was me projecting what I enjoy in my own marriage.

    I’d only attribute about 110% of my reasoning to that.

  279. @Buzz Mohawk

    Trump doesn’t appreciate anyone enough. That’s his achilles heel. As was Achilles’.

  280. njguy73 says:
    @swamped

    And for what it’s worth, the late J.K.Galbraith, renowned liberal economist & Harvard prof., was 6’8″ & lived to be nearly 100. A gentleman & a scholar to his last day. No shame in that.

    Can you say “outlier”?

  281. dfordoom says: • Website
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Our current Conservative administration, having betrayed the result of the Brexit referendum, are making LGBTQWERTYUOP education compulsory for toddlers, and about to take control of the UK internet in order to criminalise dissent.

    And conservative voters just keep on voting for them. The Conservative Party hasn’t been conservative for a long long time. The only thing they’re interested in conserving is rich people’s money.

    Of course UK voters could reject both the major parties as being equally evil and vote for an alternative party. But they won’t.

    especially after the UK made nursing a college-based degree course rather than a hospital-based vocational course.

    We have the same nonsense in Australia. The end result is nurses who are less capable of getting the job done.

  282. @Jack D

    It doesn’t seem like a very big effect if it really exists at all.

    1 child per woman is the difference between the fertility of whites and Hispanics in the USA up until recently.

    Tell me how big you thought that effect was over the last 40 years.

    Now realize that this has been going on for thousands of years and that women were neither educated nor wealthy for 99% of time.

  283. @Alden

    I bet it was to have long, intimate talks about his feelings.

  284. @Desiderius

    Melania has also resisted the First Lady temptation to go on some goo goo crusade or other. Mochelle got school lunches changed to be more “healthy” and a lot of the lunches go into the trash because the kids don’t like them.

  285. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Jack D

    and has a BA degree

    Melania studied architecture and design at the University of Ljubljana for one year before she dropped out.

    The fact that she doesn’t have a degree is a major point in her favour. God save us from educated women.

  286. dfordoom says: • Website
    @stillCARealist

    Being able to read the same books and appreciate the same cultural tastes is pretty foundational…. even for just a basic friendship.

    If a women has been to college it’s almost certain that her cultural tastes will be depraved and that the books she’s read will have been poisonous.

    A college education pretty much disqualifies a woman as a potential marriage partner.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  287. dfordoom says: • Website
    @anon

    Easter Europeans are far less interested in virtue signalling.

    That’s temporary. Eastern Europe is being pozzed fast. Thanks to communism they’re a decade or two behind. But they’re headed for the same hell. They’ll lose their culture war the same way we lost ours – they won’t realise it matters until it’s already lost.

  288. @dfordoom

    Not really. It’s a glorified vocational school for most women. Men are higher variance.

  289. Brutusale says:
    @Anonymous

    Some actually go lower. The 7’5″ Wilt Chamberlin famously would only cop to being 7’1″. He was once awarded a trophy that measured exactly that, and he could look down at the top of it. Bill Walton would only admit to 6’11” because he said anyone over 7 feet is a freak, even though he was obviously taller than the 7-foot Robert Parish.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  290. Brutusale says:
    @anon

    Which is why we have so many Irish-Catholics: no rhythm!

  291. @Brutusale

    I walked down Rush St. in Chicago behind Bill Walton for several blocks. He is immense. Huge shoulders as well as huge height.

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