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Senator Elizabeth Warren Announces She Is ~0% American Indian, Claims Vindication
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From CNN:

Elizabeth Warren releases DNA test with ‘strong evidence’ of Native American ancestry
By Rebecca Berg, CNN

Updated 7:54 AM ET, Mon October 15, 2018

Senator Warren had her DNA analyzed not by the usual commercial testing services but by a Stanford professor, Carlos Bustamante, who writes:

(3) The total length of the 5 genetic segments identified as having Native American ancestry is 25.6 centiMorgans, and they span approximately 12,300,000 DNA bases. The average segment length is 5.8 centiMorgans. The total and average segment size suggest (via the method of moments) an unadmixed Native American ancestor in the pedigree at approximately 8 generations before the sample, although the actual number could be somewhat lower or higher (Gravel, 2012 and Huff et al., 2011).

If I’m doing the arithmetic correctly, eight generations is 1/256th or 0.4% Native American. Eight generations ago would be a single great-great-great-great-great-great grandparent.

Am I doing the math right, or is there a different way of interpreting “8 generations before the sample”?

Senator Warren has been claiming that her Cherokee ancestor was only five generations ago, which would have made her 1/32nd Indian. But her hired geneticist Prof. Bustamante concludes that that isn’t in the range of probability:

Conclusion. While the vast majority of the individual’s ancestry is European, the results strongly support the existence of an unadmixed Native American ancestor in the individual’s pedigree, likely in the range of 6-10 generations ago.

What this implies is that one of Senator Warren’s great-great-great-grandmothers was, most likely, about 1/8th American Indian but nobody in her family would ever let her forget it: Make sure that Great-Grandma only gets a glass of sarsaparilla and not any of the the corn likker, or she’ll go on the warpath, cuz you know how those redskins are.

As I explained in my Taki’s column “The Affirmative Action Honor System,” the affirmative action system doesn’t collapse into farce, the way it is doing in Brazil, because white Americans, with Senator Warren as a conspicuous exception, seldom try hard to exploit its ambiguities.

Senator Warren, for instance, claims that one of her 32 great-great-grandparents was a Cherokee or Delaware Indian (or both). Nor do most Americans have a pedigree as thoroughly documented as do thoroughbred racehorses, whose ancestors can sometimes be documented back to the 17th century.

To deal with this, American Indian nations each have their own rules for who is entitled to membership (and thus, in recent decades, who gets a share of the profits from the one casino each tribe has the right to own).

For example, the Cherokee require members to be directly descended from at least one person on the Dawes Final Rolls of 1907. Of the two tribes of Delaware Indians in Oklahoma, one uses a similar rule and the other requires applicants to be at least one-eighth Delaware by “blood quantum.”

Senator Warren qualifies under none of these measures. Yet, she did have herself listed as Native American at Harvard Law School, which used her assertion to statistically claim greater diversity of faculty. (Warren also contributed several old family recipes to a 1984 cookbook of American Indian cuisine entitled Pow Wow Chow, including that essential Plains Indian dish: crab with mayonnaise. This recipe may have been lifted from a 1979 newspaper column by a French chef who says this dish was a great favorite of legendary Indian chiefs Cole Porter and the Duchess of Windsor.)

Warren is a law professor from Oklahoma, so she surely knew that the Cherokee have a bright line system for determining who gets to call themselves a Cherokee and that she definitely didn’t qualify.

On the other hand, one could theoretically be descended from enough American Indian tribes without qualifying for membership in any single one that an outside observer might consider you to have a legitimate claim to be a generic Native American. But what level of descent that would require has never been established, and if it ever were, Senator Warren would be unlikely to meet it. (Just look at her.)

In any case, being part Indian has never been all that detrimental in American history. For example, Herbert Hoover’s vice president, Charles Curtis, grew up speaking Kaw. His Indian blood just added a touch of glamour to his résumé.

Well, at least we now know, according to the Democratic Party, that race not only exists, but the biological reality of race is extremely real.

Update: Nick Patterson comments:

I’m a population geneticist who has worked extensively on admixture, including the genetics of the Americas.

1. Carlos Bustamante is a world expert in exactly the area of admixture of indigenous genetics into the general population of the Americas. He may be a “hired geneticist” but you should believe his technical results. In this specific area he will be more reliable than the big commercial outfits.

2. A 5th generation “Cherokee” ancestor might easily be 50% White. Thus the actual Native American ancestor would be 6th generation. You can’t expect family lore at this remove to be exact.

The simplest conclusion is that Senator Warren has been telling the truth here. This issue should be dropped. A slim hope indeed.

Nick Patterson

This is his first comment on my iSteve blog. Nick Patterson shouldn’t be confused with other commenters named Nick.

 
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  1. HJK says:

    Has anyone investigated if her family was even in North America in that approximate timeframe?

    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    , @Wency
    , @Pat Boyle
  2. IHTG says:

  3. benjaminl says:

    Off-topic:

    Some choice HateFacts and other iSteve gold in this WSJ story about the Diverse criminal underworld in Germany

    https://t.co/3IMptFwdcZ

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/ethnic-crime-families-provoke-german-crackdown-1539604801

    Interestingly, analysts of immigrant background, like this reporter Bojan Pancevski (or Tino Sanandaji in Sweden) seem to be less burdened by White Guilt in reporting honestly, as compared to the native NW Euros.

  4. Thirdtwin says:

    Trump sure can get them to produce documentation, however phony it may be. Dick Blumenthal may yet reveal his top secret missions in Vietnam.

    • Agree: Bubba
    • LOL: bomag
    • Replies: @Bubba
  5. Jimi says:

    I always thought Trump’s challenge to Elizabeth Warren to prove her Native American descent is a lose/lose for her.

    She either proves she isn’t Native American or starts bragging about her 0.2% heritage.

    The media will triumphantly declare Trump proven wrong by “facts” while most people will see a white Harvard professor ridiculously bragging about being 0.2% Native American.

    BTW: Warren is finally speaking out against the impostor Native American charge on twitter. Looks like she is laying the groundwork for her 2020 presidential candidacy which will begin the day after Election Day.

  6. Flemur says:

    If you go back over 5 or 6 generations , you don’t necessarily have any DNA at all from any given ancestor. Going to 8 or 10 generations makes it 8+ times less likely.

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
  7. eric says:

    My 23andMe says 1.1% American Indian, though I have no clue how. That’s about one node out of 64 or 128, and I simply don’t have that much accuracy in my ancestral accounting, so sure, it’s possible.

  8. I asked the other day, are there records of births/marriages/deaths going back in the US? The UK is lucky to have such a great resource (the Irish ones were destroyed in the 1921 civil war – thanks Sinn Fein! )

  9. countenance says: • Website

    80% of white Britons, and a big supermajority of the English diaspora in other countries, are direct descendants of King Edward III. (Both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are, as well as probably a majority of the people that voted for either one.)

    Which means:

    We iz all kangz.

  10. eah says:

    OT

    This is the aforecommented Rev Robert Lee IV (great-great-great-great-nephew).

  11. llloyd says: • Website

    I had recognised the Native American ancestry in her. Her bony sharp features. The non American world would instantly pick her as an American or Canadian. Jung wrote how he noticed in America the large proportion of Americans in Native American regions with Indian ancestry. He was told the proportion was actually very small. So he claimed the American ideal of the Native Americans had shaped their physiology.

    • Replies: @Lowe
    , @S. Anonyia
  12. ChrisZ says:
    @Jimi

    Look for the Left to “declare victory” by pretending that the charge from the Right against Warren was that she had no Indian ancestry. But the Right’s joke about Warren was that she shamelessly exploited her self-proclaimed 1/32 Indian ancestry to gain entre into the affirmative action racket. That joke is even more potent now that her connection to an Indian ancestor is arguably more remote.

  13. Mr. Anon says:

    Senator Warren has been claiming that her Cherokee ancestor was only five generations ago, which would have made her 1/32nd Indian. But her hired geneticist Prof. Bustamante concludes that that isn’t in the range of probability:

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  14. Tiny Duck says:

    BOOM goes the dynamite

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/warren-releases-results-of-dna-test/ar-BBOphlQ?OCID=ansmsnnews11

    Looks like Trump got egg on his face. I think this will be the beginning of the downfall. All it takes is for one tiny rock to start the avalanche.

    Considser that all People of Color despise Trump and his followers and are the emerging majority.

    We will see them rise up in anger on November 6 and vote out the old white “men”.

    This is the start of the revolution

  15. Nick says:

    I’m a population geneticist who has worked extensively on admixture,
    including the genetics of the Americas.

    1. Carlos Bustamante is a world expert in exactly the area of admixture
    of indigenous genetics into the general population of the Americas. He
    may be a “hired geneticist” but you should believe his technical results.
    In this specific area he will be more reliable than the big commercial outfits.

    2. A 5th generation “Cherokee” ancestor might easily be 50% White. Thus the
    actual Native American ancestor would be 6th generation. You can’t expect
    family lore at this remove to be exact.

    The simplest conclusion is that Senator Warren has been telling the truth here.
    This issue should be dropped. A slim hope indeed.

    Nick Patterson

  16. BB753 says:

    How accurate are Indian genetic databases, given that most tribes refuse to be tested and looking into ancient Indian DNA from mummies is forbidden?
    Moreover we do know that Europeans share a small amount of Paleosiberian ancestry with Amerindians.

    • Agree: Coemgen
  17. US Senator Elizabeth Warren used her questionable status as a partially Amerindian woman to sneakily claim some connection to “diversity” in order to advance her career and to make more money for herself.

    Elizabeth Warren is a baby boomer globalizer who pushes nation-wrecking, open borders mass legal immigration and amnesty for illegal alien invaders.

    Elizabeth Warren is attacking White women without college degrees and White women with college degrees in her fanatical push to flood the United States with a hundred million foreigners.

    Elizabeth Warren wants to erase the border between the United States and Mexico. Elizabeth Warren wants to bring more crime and drugs to our cities and towns.

    Mass immigration lowers wages, swamps schools, overwhelms hospitals, increases housing costs, harms the environment and causes sprawl.

    Mass immigration brings crime, deadly drugs, Islamic terrorism and multicultural mayhem to the United States.

    Trump has played nice with Warren. As a candidate for president, I will make sure the voters know about Elizabeth Warren’s fanatical push to pour more mass legal immigration and illegal alien immigration into the United States.

    The mid-term elections are boring, the presidential campaign will be a lot more fun!

  18. yaph says:

    Afirmative action what? What benefit did she claim other than a cute story?

    • Replies: @International Jew
  19. Mr. Anon says:

    Senator Warren has been claiming that her Cherokee ancestor was only five generations ago, which would have made her 1/32nd Indian. But her hired geneticist Prof. Bustamante concludes that that isn’t in the range of probability:

    That isn’t how it is being presented today in an obejctive news story Elizabeth Warren press release in the Boston Globe:

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2018/10/15/warren-addresses-native-american-issue/YEUaGzsefB0gPBe2AbmSVO/story.html

    “Bustamante calculated that Warren’s pure Native American ancestor appears in her family tree “in the range of 6-10 generations ago.” That timing fits Warren’s family lore, passed down during her Oklahoma upbringing, that her great-great-great-grandmother, O.C. Sarah Smith, was at least partially Native American.”

    So, she’s sticking with her story. Note – she didn’t just claim that she had some native american ancestry; she claimed that she “is native american”:

    “During her academic career as a law professor, she had her ethnicity changed from white to Native American at the University of Pennsylvania Law School, where she taught from 1987 to 1995, and at Harvard University Law School, where she was a tenured faculty member starting in 1995. (She was a visiting professor at Harvard during the 1992-1993 academic year.)”

    This tidbit was also in the story:

    “Once Obama produced his birth certificate in 2011, the racist “birther’’ movement, which thrived on the Internet and was stoked by Trump, largely evaporated.”

    Really? The birther movement was “racist” – that is some kind of indisputable self-evident fact? The News Media shouldn’t be surprised that people increasingly think of them as nothing but a pack of liars, given what they try to pass off as objective fact.

    • Replies: @James Braxton
  20. OP says:

    The one drop rule never included Native Americans, especially in such paltry amounts. I don’t believe there is even a word for 1/25 native american, like there is in Latin America, with castizo. That makes the US a lot more lax with native american ancestry than the Spanish colonies. This is why many areas had the mythical indian princess story, but people with the slightest bit of African ancestry would try to hide it and claim to be Portuguese or Italian.
    From what I’ve studied, people need to be at least 30% or so to be recognized as legally Native American as far as the federal government is concerned, never mind individual tribes. Tribes are starting to kick out individual members for not being pure enough.
    It’s stupid for her to try to claim indian heritage for such a paltry amount. I’m .5 NA and it would never occur to me to claim it as the totality of my heritage. It’s inherently dishonest.

  21. songbird says:

    Alternatively, she might be a little Eastern European, with a teeny bit of East Asian admixture.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Redman
  22. anonymous[129] • Disclaimer says:

    She’s trying to brazen it out now by revealing that yes she does have some Native American ancestry although it’s so microscopically small that most people would be embarrassed to have this actual tiny trace amount revealed. After nearly a lifetime of scamming her way through she evinces no shame about it. This woman certainly has hutzpah. Why now, anyway, any particular reason for it?

  23. @eah

    Robert E Lee was an ugly obstinate rat who pulled a major phuck up with that Pickett’s Charge horseshit. George Washington won the American Colonial Secessionary War from the British Empire by not losing. Why Lee thought he had to go for broke at Gettysburg is a mystery.

    I have an academic from Grinnel College who completely agrees with my historical assessment of that Robert E. Lee creature.

    Nathan Bedford Forrest was a better representative of the South.

    Most Protestant Pastors and Catholic Priests are vile scumbags of the worst sort. They are usually all globalizer go-along-to-get-along types without an ounce of Christian virtue or courage.

    No strong opinions allowed at Unz Review, folks!

  24. eah says:

    Regarding her rumored 2020 run, if nominated would she select Rachel Dolezal as her running mate? — that would be a diversity quadfecta : first female native American President; first black, female Vice President.

    • Replies: @ThirdWorldSteveReader
  25. Hodag says:

    Assuming the chart in the report is somewhat clinal north to south, the odds of her having a Mexican ancestor is much more likely than a native American ancestor.

    • Replies: @OP
  26. @benjaminl

    The Germans have outsourced organized crime for decades. The Serbs, the Russians, the Israelis and other ethnic groups used to handle prostitution and drugs. Hell, even the Vietnamese used to sell black market cigarettes in Berlin with the help of their former communists buddies from the East. I would assume that other groups are taking over those roles as new immigrants come in.

    The Germans just don’t like to do things without “legitimate” orders from above, so day-to-day crime – even organized crime which is something that they should excel at – isn’t in their DNA. Now, if a government orders it, the Germans are awesome, often, paradoxically, being quite creative in getting a job done. German-Americans are the same way.

    Germans really are different from their English cousins, especially the northern English and the Scots-Irish. In general, Germans are simply not rugged individualists. They are collectivists.

    Germans love order. Government provides order. Therefore, Germans love government. Criminals, especially organized criminals, operate outside of government. Your typical German can’t even understand that mentality, much less act on it.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  27. @Tiny Duck

    “All it takes is for one tiny rock to start the avalanche.” You mean “one tiny duck”, don’t you?

    Keep flapping them wings, Tiny! You’ll create a hurricane yet.

  28. Donald Trump is now officially in complete control of Elizabeth Warren. I wonder what he’ll make her do next?

  29. @songbird

    The best football player at my high school was this huge guy with a Slavic surname, but he had East Asian eyes. He said he figured he was a descendant of Genghis Khan. 21st Century genome analysis asserting that Genghis got around suggests he might well have been right.

  30. OP says:
    @Hodag

    The “Mexican” ancestor would be Native American, which means that she would have Native American ancestry from Mexico as opposed to the continental United States.

    • Replies: @Lowe
  31. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    America sent Germans — Pershing and Eisenhower and Schwartzkopf — to win its wars.

  32. @countenance

    I think Mr Steve has been over this point before. Medieval European monarchs did not produce the massive amounts of future descendants that the likes of Genghis Khan apparently produced. Monogamy and all that.
    A reputable website does, however, give a figure of 4 million as the number of Edward III’s descendants. Whilst not anywhere near the total number of English-descended people, it is still a considerable number, the population of a large city.

    http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/tutorials/miscellaneous/are-you-descended-royalty

    Now, Mr Steve, what chance that you are a descendent of William Tell ?

    • Replies: @countenance
  33. Anon[162] • Disclaimer says:

    Anything below five percent may be entirely chimerical. The Neanderthal percentages vary quite a bit among services, for instance, plus or minus 2 or 3 percent. After reading Reich’s book I realized that this is really just a statistical guess. There are very few genes that can be said to belong to any race. It’s more how many of this big list of genes do you have relative to how many of genes from that list do you have. The fact that the reports are as accurate as they are is a testament to math and the GCHQ.

    • Replies: @gcochran
  34. the affirmative action system doesn’t collapse into farce, the way it is doing in Brazil, because white Americans, with Senator Warren as a conspicuous exception, seldom try hard to exploit its ambiguities.

    I’d argue that our entire system – not just affirmative action – relies on whites not looking out for themselves and trying to “exploits” the various “ambiguities.” This country relies on whites acting against their self-interest; otherwise, the whole thing will collapse.

    Ultimately, this can’t last because one of two things will happen:

    1. Whites will wake up and start playing the game just like everyone else or

    2. Whites will shrink to such a small portion of the population that even their labors and good citizenship will get overwhelmed by the parasitic majority. (Granted, this can take a long time. Look at South Africa. A relatively small number of whites and mixed people can keep things running, but sooner or later, the system breaks down.)

    I have told my kids that they should put Hispanic on their college applications. I don’t think that they will because, well, they’re white and whites are stupid rule followers. But I consider myself a bit of a cultural barometer. I’m pretty average, so if I’m thinking about doing something, you can bet lots of other people are thinking the same thing.

    It won’t take every white deciding to exploit a corrupt system to gum up the gears. If ten percent – hell five percent – of whites start listing themselves as black or Hispanic on college or job applications, the system falls apart.

    At that point, the Equality Cult (because let’s remember, Repubs and Dems are both a part of that church) will either have to shut down race-based preferences or demand genetic testing for the black category and family history verification for Hispanic. Of course, if they go down the latter path (and they will because it’s how they reward their voters), they’ll have to define black and Hispanic. This will lead to all kinds of problems and push normal whites toward identifing as a tribe.

    The future is tribal. Hell, the present is tribal for everyone but whites. The only question is when whites join the fun or get subsumed by other tribes. Either way, tribalism will make its return. You can only fight nature for so long.

    • Replies: @MarcB.
  35. ic1000 says:

    > the prestige press is treating this nugatory DNA result as a spectacular vindication of Senator Warren

    That was also the take on CBS This Morning, this morning.

    Another instance of the importance of the distinction between Moderate-Information voters and High-Information voters. Given the ~90% alignment of the legacy press with the DNC, this is a major headwind for the right.

    Another notable CBS This Morning segment was a hard-hittin’ interview of Ms. Clinton, where she came out swinging on Bill’s behalf as far as that ancient Monica unpleasantness. I waited for cub reporter Jimmy Olsen to risk annoying Hillary! with a mention of Broaddrick, Willey, Milwee, Jones, or Flowers — but in vain.

    Occasionally one reads a moderate exclaiming, “those media flacks are misleading by omission!” But most voters don’t know enough and don’t care enough to recognize the ongoing one-sided scam.

    • Replies: @Forbes
  36. @Steve Sailer

    Trump’s German Strategy:

    Trump won the presidency with the votes of German Americans in the Great Lakes states.

    The German Strategy is to win the votes of the German Americans in the Great Lakes states in combination with the votes of Anglo-Celtic Americans in the South.

    Trump won Florida with the votes of Anglo-Celts in Northern Florida combined with the snowbirds from the Northeast and the snowbirds from the Great Lakes states.

  37. So as we are in this Marijuana transition I think Trump has a chance to steal a march on the left. New federal legislation to give Marijuana distribution rights to US descendants of Slavery as reparations. This will give the Slavery descendants a motive to defend their privilege in the same way the tribes guard theirs. It would also help to maintain a stigma on pot smoking.

    • Replies: @Pericles
  38. Jack D says:

    Here’s the Daily Beast headline:

    Elizabeth Warren Releases DNA Results: She’s Native American

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/elizabeth-warren-releases-native-american-dna-test-results

    Boy, that’s not deceptive at all.

  39. ic1000 says:
    @BB753

    Re: accuracy of claims of a small fraction of Native American ancestry.

    Razib Khan has posted about this at GNXP. Surprisingly to me, he wrote to endorse the meaningfulness of commercial services’ claims of ancestry at a level of 1% or even somewhat lower. Interpretation of SNP chip results is that precise, he claimed. (I could dig up that post, if there’s interest in the cite.)

  40. @Steve Sailer

    East Asian Eyes ? Is there an iris test for that sort of thing ?
    Or maybe it’s a bit more intuitive?
    Like this.

  41. US Senator Elizabeth Warren voted for the Rubio/Obama Illegal Alien Amnesty — Mass Immigration Surge bill(S 744) of June of 2013.

    The immigration bill Warren voted for would have doubled or tripled legal immigration and it would have given amnesty to upwards of 30 million illegal alien invaders.

    Warren’s immigration bill(S 744) was killed in the US House by the US House Speaker at the time Boehner.

  42. This a good time to once again air this video clip.

  43. Magyar says:
    @BB753

    Moreover we do know that Europeans share a small amount of Paleosiberian ancestry with Amerindians.

    If one has magyar ancestry, commercial DNA tests will often catch the Paleosiberian ancestry and reference it as Native American.

  44. @Nick

    The simplest conclusion is that Senator Warren has been telling the truth here.
    This issue should be dropped. A slim hope indeed.

    With all due respect, Nick, you are wrong. Warren didn’t use her Native American heritage as an interesting family story. She claimed to be Native American, which almost certainly enhanced her career.

    According the Globe story:

    During her academic career as a law professor, she had her ethnicity changed from white to Native American at the University of Pennsylvania Law School, where she taught from 1987 to 1995, and at Harvard University Law School, where she was a tenured faculty member starting in 1995. (She was a visiting professor at Harvard during the 1992-1993 academic year.)

    She also identified herself as Native Americans in the late 80s and early 90s. School were (and are) under enormous pressure to hire Native Americans. It seems impossible that her career wasn’t helped by identifying as a Native American, something that she knew was tenuous at best. She played the system to her gain. Good for her, but let’s not pretend that it was something different.

    I realize that her former bosses claim that her identifying as a Native American made no difference, but I simply don’t believe them. These are the same people who have been saying for decades that race is just the slightest thumb on the scale for college admission, a claim is laughably false.

    Warren lied to enhance her career. Warren unfairly took the AA job of an actual Native American. Therefore, no, Warren did not tell the truth, and the issue should not be dropped.

  45. Polynices says:

    What garbage. The issue was always that she was full of shit to claim an affirmative action slot simply because she had some tiny drop of Indian blood despite being 1000% culturally and physically white. She used it to get to Harvard where she conveniently dropped the claim after getting tenure. That’s what is bogus and dishonest.

    When Trump jumped on this issue he simplified it by just focusing on her supposedly lying about being Indian when that wasn’t the actual complaint. If he needs to, he can pivot to the actual claim of her taking great advantage of AA and denying a slot to an real Indian law professor (if there even are such things).

  46. Mr. Anon says:
    @Nick

    The simplest conclusion is that Senator Warren has been telling the truth here.

    No, she was not telling the truth. She did not merely claim that she had a native american ancestor. She claimed that her ethnicity is “American Indian” – a claim she made to her employer, Harvard University, which (non) fact Harvard used in touting the ethnic diversity of its faculty.

    This issue should be dropped. A slim hope indeed.

    Why should it be dropped? Because it’s effective?

  47. @Nick

    While I agree that the results support her story about a NA ancestor, the issue shouldn’t be dropped as long as the MSM is reporting “Warren is Native American!” like the Daily Beast.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  48. Anonym says:

    I can normally be bothered to post images but there are too many pinterest pics for me to bother with young Elizabeth Warren. However, even young she was a bit homely. Her chin is a bit too big and her nose a bit wide, her face a bit long. Her short haircut has added insult to injury.

    I think the Cherokee thing may have been used in an attempt to create interest where there was otherwise not enough.

  49. Jack D says:
    @Nick

    The simplest conclusion is that Senator Warren has been telling the truth here.
    This issue should be dropped.

    You are very good when it comes to the science part of this, but “telling the truth” is more of a ethical or legal conclusion. If Warren had told her friends family lore about her great grandma’s “high cheekbones” and left it at that – fine these stories were “true enough” . But, she went far beyond that. She listed herself, or allowed herself to be listed, as a Native American and used that status to gain Affirmative Action benefits in her profession. 1/256th Indian is not enough Indian blood to qualify for enrollment in any tribe. For some who is 99.6% white to game the system and gain an advantage in employment over other white people and to deprive an actual Indian of the job is in my view deeply unethical.

    Warren attended Rutgers Law School which is a 2nd tier law school. It is virtually unheard of for a Rutgers law school graduate to become a professor at Harvard. It’s pretty rare for a Rutgers grad to become a law professor ANYWHERE. Even 2nd tier law schools usually recruit their faculty from 1st tier school graduates. I think that the ONLY reason that they relaxed their standards (even being a woman would not been enough) is that they wanted an “Indian” professor on their faculty. Warren could have said, “oh, no, I’m not really an Indian – we have some family stories but I don’t belong to any tribe and have no connection with Indian culture or reservation life. If you want an Indian on your faculty you’ll need to find someone else. Please don’t list me as an Indian, because I am not.” But she didn’t do that. She allowed this ruse to go on for many years and probably even promoted it. She DIDN’T tell the truth.

  50. res says:
    @Nick

    Thank you for all of your contributions to population genetics! (I recently read David Reich’s book)

    It seems reasonable to believe Senator Warren was relaying the truth as she knew it on this issue (but is that the standard the left applies to Trump?). However, it also seems to me the real questions here have to do with what level of ancestry is appropriate for receiving affirmative action benefits and what evidence should be required in borderline cases (like this one IMHO). I think those other questions are sufficient reason not to drop the issue.

    A technical question, should the excerpt from Carlos Bustamante be read as a single unmixed ancestor being most likely (rather than multiple lines of descent further back)? I found Gravel, 2012 at http://www.genetics.org/content/191/2/607 but am not conversant enough with the literature to answer that question using it.

    P.S. I think this is another great example of Trump using “lying” (alternatively rhetorical overreach, something no other politician has ever done of course) to provoke a conversation that would not happen otherwise (because the negative aspect of the facts is compensated for by getting to prove Trump wrong). The canonical example of this was Trump tweeting incorrect interracial crime statistics: https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/23/donald-trump/trump-tweet-blacks-white-homicide-victims/

    • Replies: @gcochran
    , @res
    , @Chrisnonymous
  51. bgates says:

    Six generations puts her at about the same remove from her putative Cherimexican ancestor as John Goodman’s character was from the previous monarch in the 1991 movie “King Ralph”, in which Ralph ascends to the throne after the known royal family is wiped out and it’s discovered that the nearest heir is a Vegas lounge act whose grandmother had been knocked up by the Duke of Warren.

    • LOL: fish
  52. Anonym says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Germans are good at war (the Romans figured this one out) and order but maybe not so good at forging the alliances that win wars on the world stage.

    Part of that is Hitler and hubris. If he had waited for the USSR to attack Europe my guess is that the US and England would have had to intercede on the side of the Germans.

  53. @Nick

    Telling the truth about what, exactly? As I recall, she represented herself as her “Native American.” This is quite a stretch, by any sensible standard.

    https://www.boredpanda.com/vintage-native-american-girls-portrait-photography/

  54. Trump has an amazing knack for finding suitable nicknames. Pocahontas really hits the bullseye. People intuitively understand how the affirmative action system works and the nickname directly exposes her as a phoney, not comfortable in her own skin but also as a sleaze who is trying to game the system. Brilliant – and accurate.

    • Replies: @Spud Boy
    , @Reg Cæsar
  55. @Steve Sailer

    Germans get a bad rap for being robotic and unimaginative. For example, one of the reasons that the Germans beat the French in the Franco-Prussian War was their less rigid command structure and the ability of officers in the field to improvise, which they did quite well, certainly better than the French.

    Germans remind me of my engineer friends. Give them a task, and they can stun you with how they accomplish it. But they don’t always think about why they’re doing the task or what it will mean going forward. They just want to solve puzzles so they let management (government) deal with the larger strategic questions. That’s fine if you have good management (government) that has your best interests at heart but extremely dangerous if not.

    • Replies: @GermanReader2
  56. Svigor says:

    The simplest conclusion is that Senator Warren has been telling the truth here. This issue should be dropped.


    The average American black is WAAAAAAAAY whiter than Warren is Amerind.

    Should we start calling them “white” now?

    • Agree: Forbes
    • Replies: @Anonym
  57. Lizzy Warren is running for re-election this fall so this and maybe prepping for a possible 2020 presidential run explain the timing of this “announcement.”

    I know this is purely anecdotal as to who will actually win, but I’ve been across MA from Boston in the east to Springfield in the west, from urban, suburban to rural areas and I’ve seen far more yard signs, bumper stickers, etc. for her Republican opponent Diehl. There doesn’t seem to be much enthusiasm for her but maybe come election day the low-info voters will ultimately deliver for her, reflexively pulling the lever on her behalf because she has the name recognition, even while having some vague reservations floating somewhere in the back of their heads about doing it.

    But yes the media megaphone is shouting very loudly this morning: “Ha Ha! This proves Warren’s been right all along! Trump’s been caught lying again!”

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @anon
  58. bgates says:

    If I’m doing the arithmetic correctly, eight generations is 1/256th or 0.4% Native American.

    Here’s a reputable-looking study (by Reich et al!) which “studied the genetic ancestry of …148,789 [self-described] European Americans who are 23andMe customers” and (conservatively) estimated they were on average 0.2% Native American.

    • Replies: @ic1000
  59. Svigor says:
    @Jack D

    For some who is 99.6% white to game the system and gain an advantage in employment over other white people and to deprive an actual Indian of the job is in my view deeply unethical.

    For a so-called “anti-racist” it is. Not for a white ethnopatriot. We’re being dispossessed and we say we’re being dispossessed; we reject the J-Left and its works, and it’s certainly fair game to claw back some of the ill-gotten gains. I’d much rather have a white ethnopatriot taking that job than a non-white taking it.

    Enemies like Warren, not so much.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  60. eah says:
    @Nick

    Some of us white guys — you’re a white guy, right? — do not and cannot respect Warren, really anything about her, including her ancestry claims, because of what she’s trying to pull here — as if being Native American gives here some kind of caché or bona fides as a ‘minority’ politician that she wouldn’t otherwise have — ‘I’m not a Becky’ — so ‘stunning and brave’, playing to the current über-politically correct, anti-white Zeitgeist — Mr Sailer should really label this post ‘Flight from White’, because that’s what it is.

    That said, she can be Native American if she wants, I don’t give a fuck: I would never vote for her anyway.

  61. @Mr. Anon

    The birther movement evaporated so completely that its most famous proponent had to leave his well paid spot on network tv in disgrace and accept the lesser position of President of the United States.

    • LOL: AnotherDad
  62. @Nick

    Steve accepts the Nick Patterson contribution cordially, but Patterson’s remarks are beside the point.

    Patterson is pretending that the issue is whether Warren is 1.2% or perhaps 0.78% Cherokee, or less, and how it doesn’t make any difference because nobody really knows, and you should just drop the issue, people!

    Well that’s NOT the issue, Nick, and I’m sorry you haven’t been with us since the start of the debate. The issue is that Elizabeth Warren plain-and-simple lied to get special consideration, a job, a career advantage. She queue-jumped using grievance politics. MOST of could make the same claim, using the same vacuous excuse that we’re not exactly sure where or when. But—we—DON’T.

    We could even overlook the Cherokee nonsense if Warren, upon later being confronted with it, dismissed the claim as unsourced family rumor, laughed it off, said “I really don’t know!”

    She didn’t do that. She double-downed. She used it as an excuse to play the grievance card again. And she tried to derail the debate by making it about her critics.

  63. ex-banker says:

    The ex post facto release of the information is highly questionable. Given the imprecision of the tests, how are we to know that she had not sent multiple samples to be tested and “shopped” for the desired result? It would be much more convincing if she announced in advance that she was sending samples to one or more labs who would release the results publicly.

    Just another form of the replication crisis in psychology.

  64. gcochran says:
    @Anon

    You’re wrong. You look at haplotypes, patterns: easy to notice if they’re European or not.

  65. sondjata says:
    @Nick

    Yeah, except:

    ” an unadmixed Native American ancestor in the pedigree at approximately 8 generations before the sample,”

    Note the “unadmixed”.

    Hence the probability of a 3rd great-grandparent being 50% is zero.

    If the nearest unmixed NA was 8 generations back (7th-great-grandparent) then the only 50% person was 6th-great grandparent.

    And we’ll note that the author cited said that the unadmixed NA ancestor could be further back.

    • Replies: @SF
  66. gcochran says:
    @res

    Affirmative action is pure horseshit, and we should congratulate anyone who games it.

  67. Kat Grey says:

    In Oklahoma many whites lied about having Indian ancestry in order to receive land from the government. High cheekbones were not even necessary.

  68. Svigor says:

    Lol, let’s boil that down:

    “Cheating at a rigged game is unethical.”

    No, it isn’t.

  69. @Jack D

    You are incorrect.

    If Senator Warren had an ancestor on the Dawes Roles, she would be eligible for Cherokee tribal membership with ANY amount of Indian blood. There is at least one known case of a tribal member with 1/1024 blood quantum.

    Second, the number given was not 1/256. It was anywhere from 1/32 to 1/512.

    As was made clear, Senator Warren was telling the truth. Her ancestor was part Native American. The DNA evidence supports her family story. That is all she ever claimed, and her claim is correct.

    Nor is there any evidence she was ever an Affirmative Action hire. The evidence is she was hired years before she told them about her Cherokee ancestry. But evidence doesn’t matter to people who have already made up their minds.

  70. Trevor H. says:

    I hope no one’s really surprised at the media spin on this story. It’ll be pretty much like Nick Patterson’s: ignore the irritating details and believe what we tell you.

    But–just for a moment–imagine someone from near the other end of the political spectrum having profited in their career from this degree and manner of deception. They’d have been defenestrated long ago. They certainly wouldn’t be serving in the U.S. Senate.

    PS: Enjoyed the ironic humor regarding Mrs Simpson and Cole Porter (who actually looked a lot more “native” than Sen Warren).

  71. Mike1 says:
    @Nick

    1. The days of “trust me I’m a scientist” are over. There is an overwhelming culture of “by any means necessary” that has infected all disciplines. There are no actual results in the report just graphs and interpretations. There are also telltale signs of results orientated science like the Executive Summary stating “…strong evidence …contains Native American ancestry”. That is self evidently designed for media consumption. It is not a neutral Executive Summary as an infinitesimal quantity of Native American ancestry would never be the headline of a report of this nature.

    2. “You can’t expect family lore at this remove to be exact.” No one does. What people object to is a person who is culturally and biologically white (with the apparent exception of a single ancestor that may be ten generations removed!) using the racial spoils system to advance her career.

    I have had people from Stanford University spit in my face when discussing the mildest areas of genetic science and know PHD’s from the school who cannot do the most basic of math without a calculator. All my examples are from people in or teaching technical fields and all are postgraduate.

    Science has sadly become a belief based culture: “I believe in science!” is a statement you are supposed to agree with. I don’t believe in science. I believe in research where I can see the math.

  72. Dutch Boy says:

    According to 23&Me, I have 3% Southern European ancestry. At last I can proclaim it: I am Spartacus!

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  73. @Jack D

    Right. Even dumb people know that .4 percent is infinitesimal, and she’ll look all the smaller for having unethically used it for prestigious jobs. My family lore (along with many others, I assume) is that I could be as much as 1/32nd, but I and everyone else, excepting Madam Senator, know that doesn’t make me the least bit indian. I do, however, make regular monthly donations to the nearest tribe, so maybe that might qualify me for honorary status.

    The Pocahontas slur will definitely stick. Whether it’ll matter to voters will be a different thing. People voting for Barack, and were inclined to view the issue negatively, knew good and damned well he was lying about being against gay marriage.

    • Replies: @Le Autiste Corv
  74. pyrrhus says:
    @HJK

    The Boston Globe reports that Bustamante was looking for South American Indian DNA, which is not quite the same thing. And then there is the margin of error,which would wipe out a 1/1024 ethnicity claim.

  75. @gcochran

    I have done so myself, so I agree.

    You may or may not be amazed at how much the Affirmative Action system has been gamed. Most of the people who are AA beneficiaries are well to do immigrants or their kids who grab all the minority set asides. Why should Apu get all the SBA minority business loans instead of our own Indians like Ms. Warren? Why are wealthy Mexicans with not a drop of Indian blood getting all the Hispanic set asides?

    That being said, there is no evidence Ms. Warren has ever received any AA benefits. I would not hold it against her in the slightest if she had.

  76. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Nick

    If you’re Nick Patterson, I’m Elizabeth Warren.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @Nick
  77. “The total length of the 5 genetic segments identified as having Native American ancestry is 25.6 centiMorgans, and they span approximately 12,300,000 DNA bases. The average segment length is 5.8 centiMorgans.”

    Huh? How do you figure? If the total length of 5 genetic segments is 25.6 cM, then the average (mean) segment length has to be 25.6/5 = 5.12 cM, not 5.8 cM. Right?

    • Replies: @res
    , @ScarletNumber
  78. @Tiny Duck

    Wow! she is a whopping 1/64th American Indian, like presumably millions of other people who didn’t use being American Indian to get Affirmative Actioned into Harvard Law School or tenured or elected to the US Senate. No one ever said she had no Amerindian ancestry at all, just she had no business claiming to be one, and guess what? having one great-great-great-great grandparent doesn’t qualify, not according to any tribe.

  79. pyrrhus says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    No, 10 generations is 1/1024, which is well below the margin of error…Bustamante’s most probable is 8 generations, which is 1/256…It’s all most likely lab error, unless she can establish some connection with North America more than 200 years ago.

  80. @Paleo Liberal

    That being said, there is no evidence Ms. Warren has ever received any AA benefits.

    See my and JackD’s response to Nick. There is ample evidence that she benefited from claiming to be a Native American.

    However, my issue is not with her gaming the system; it’s her lying about gaming the system and her defense of the system.

    Btw, congrats on gaming the system yourself. I wish that I could convince my kids to do so.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  81. countenance says: • Website
    @Verymuchalive

    A mental exercise I gave myself a few years ago.

    The lack of prodigious procreation would not preclude a high number of ancestors many centuries out.

    https://countenance.wordpress.com/2015/11/22/descendants-of-the-signers/

  82. pyrrhus says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    She received the huge AA benefit of being hired by Harvard Law School, which was looking to get some “diversity”, despite having a 10th rate resume…..

  83. @gcochran

    Affirmative action is the natural outgrowth of a multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-religious society. Whites may have started AA out the goodness of our hearts, but AA would have happened eventually as our country became more diverse.

    Different tribes will demand a part of the pie equivalent to their power relative to other tribes in a society. That’s not horseshit, that’s nature.

  84. It would be great for a guy like Nick to be able to write regularly for an outfit like Unz or the like. I usually keep up on Cochran’s blog and find it fascinating.

    In terms of practice, Warren probably lied at some point about her ancestry to game some system. When and where is for an enterprising investigative journalist to find out. The story is much more about “The Flight From White” rather than her actual lineage, always has been (you can look at her and tell she’s mostly if not entirely European). I wonder how much the Amerindian claim helped Warren in navigating Massachusetts politics.

    Also how long has Warren’s European ancestors been in the country? As far back as Sorkin’s “The West Wing”, lefties, liberals, and their ilk seemed to have cared about having a Presidential character who could trace their lineage to the first settlements of New England. It’s interesting to see the script on this to be flipped away from focusing on her heritage American ancestry.

  85. @Tiny Duck

    Tiny D*ck has about as much credibility as 538 on November 9, 2018.

  86. OP says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Senator Warren is not a native american in any way. Having less that 1% native american makes here white, by any reasonable measure. There wasn’t even a one drop rule in the United States and the threshold for people to cross over from “half-breed” to white was less strict here than it was in Latin America.

    Let’s do a mental exercise, and make her native american ssa, given that there was a one drop rule in the US for SSA. The strictest state to apply it was Mississippi, which marked an individual with 1% SSA as black. At .4%, she wouldn’t even be black by Mississippi standards.

    If she were a conservative, and she had so shamelessly and cynically emphasized he distant Native American, then she would be raked through the coals for it. It would be called a form of brown face, which it is, and she would be shammed.

    But because she has a “D” by her name, no one cares.

    • Agree: densa
  87. @YetAnotherAnon

    I asked the other day, are there records of births/marriages/deaths going back in the US?

    There are records, but they are diverse . A lot of it depends on where the person was living. My paternal line has American records going back to mid 1600′s Virginia. My maternal line has it’s first male ancestor showing up in North Carolina in the mid 1700′s.

    Starting in 1790, we do have the Census. Quite a bit can be learned from reading those records. The “counters” went everywhere.

  88. @YetAnotherAnon

    I asked the other day, are there records of births/marriages/deaths going back in the US?

    There are records, but they are diverse . A lot of it depends on where the person was living. My paternal line has American records going back to mid 1600′s Virginia. My maternal line has it’s first male ancestor showing up in North Carolina in the mid 1700′s.

    Starting in 1790, we do have the Census. Quite a bit can be learned from reading those records. The “counters” went everywhere.

  89. MikeCLT says:
    @gcochran

    To you it is pure horseshit. But to liberals like Professor Warren it is a moral imperative.

    I am not sure if Professor Warren used the Native American designation to advance her career or if Harvard used it to increase the number of minority professors it could claim on its faculty. Regardless it is pretty clear that her claim to be Native American is a crock. Given the near sacredness of affirmative action to liberals, you would think this would be viewed more as a case of “stolen valor” (see DaNang Dick Blumenthal) rather than a vindication of her claim.

    There seems to an increase in people who have small amounts of DNA from groups designated as disadvantaged minorities by the government to use their ancestry to qualify for affirmative action benefits. There will probably be lots of lawsuits going forward.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/09/dna-test-race-lawsuit/570250/

  90. Alfa158 says:
    @Tiny Duck

    Simulated IQ 95.
    Perfectly executed bit of satire, my boy, I think you’ve we got it down.
    I hereby graduate you from my tutelage. Spread your wings and fly my little bird!

  91. Whoa. Steve, with big names like Nick Patterson commenting I think their is much concern among the anti-Trump forces that he will be unbeatable in 2020.

    Maybe 538 will do a special on Pocahontas’ ancestry. That would be pretty credible!

  92. @pyrrhus

    Couldn’t it just mean she has about the same level of Indian ancestry as the average White American.

  93. MEH 0910 says:
    @Nick

    Looking through your comment history makes me question whether you really are “the” Nick Patterson.

    https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Nick

  94. @Nick

    Would it be just too much to ask for Doctor Professor Bustamante to produce an actual probability estimate that the native American ancestor in this analysis was only 6 (or fewer) generations back, rather than more?

    Is it about 1 in 10? 1 in 20? 1 in 50? 1 in 100?

    Because if it’s really low, how likely is it that, even under Patterson’s very generous interpretation of what having a “Cherokee” ancestor from 5 generations ago might mean, Warren was “telling the truth” about her ancestry?

  95. Anonym says:
    @Svigor

    By this standard I am a fully eligible MOT. I have the most painful part of tribe re-entry already completed, so just give me a copy of the Talmud already and I’m good to go. Jack D, put in a good word for me bro. International Jew, let’s be rootless cosmopolitans together. L’Chaim!

  96. tyrone says:

    So ,what does Warren have more of ,Neanderthal or american indian and which caused the most discrimination?…Boy, it’s been a trail of tears

  97. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    As a German, I agree with that assessment.

  98. What’s ridiculous is all the MAGA Chuds getting all righteous about their rootin’, tootin’ granny who was a real Cherokee. That and the tribal legal experts who have all cropped up. If Warren were GOP, this would not be an issue with said chuds. I have no truck with the SWJ and center-left neolibs, but I think they are taking all this, correctly, with a large degree of humor. Trump got egg on his face.

    In a serious country, this would not be an issue. Vae victis! But, Anglo Protestant hypocrisy dictates crocodile tears on the part of Churchill bust owning middle class dads and God only knows what goes through the minds of the chuds.

    I’ve never understood the soft spot the mouth breathers, who are usually reliably jinjoist, have for a group of people who often scalped, raped and mutilated their ancestors. Look no further than fawning treatment an aged Quanah Parker got by Texans.

    Another area worthy of contempt is that there probably is a direct correlation between lack of knowledge about one’s ancestry and claims to Native American ancestry amongst old stock Americans. It’s been my misfortune to witness this first hand.

    That and how many of these idiots think Native Americans all looked like Iron Eyes Cody or Leonard Nimoy (I’ve been told he was Native American) rather than the average Guatemalan. And before anyone starts arguing about North American vs South or Central American preColumbian peoples, take a gander at the 19th century photos of unmixed Native Americans and get back with us.

  99. @pyrrhus

    What I referred to are known cases of people who can prove 1/1024 Cherokee ancestry through proven genealogy (which includes birth and death records going back to the Dawes roll) being admitted to the tribe.

    Clearly that is too small an amount to be within the margin of error for DNA. But when you know who is descended from whom going back 10 or more generations, it matters.

    I have one ancestry line that can be traced back over 1000 years. How is that? I am related to Jenny Jerome. To prove her Englishness to the upper-class Brits, she traced her ancestry back to kings and queens of England going back to before William the Conqueror, as well as some late Mideaval kings, and Gentry. My favorite name was Sir Robert of Swinerton — Bobby the Royal Knight of the Pigs. Since I am related to Lady Churchill, I can use the line for myself.

    And yes, there are Cherokee who can trace their ancestry back more than 10 generations. For example, I am descended from the “Emperor” Moytoy who united the Cherokee under his command through a cannny alliance with George II.

    • Replies: @Lot
    , @Seth Largo
  100. This is a particularly pathetic move by Warren. By accepting Trump’s premise, she lost.

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
  101. @Paleo Liberal

    The Harvard Lawschool proclaimed her to be their first professor, who was a woman of color. I am pretty sure, that this influenced the decision to hire her.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    , @Lot
  102. @YetAnotherAnon

    Ya mean like the federal census?

    Recording births/marriages/deaths happens at the State level in the US (the “U” stands for “United”). Somehow this always confuses foreigners.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  103. J1234 says:

    Using the standards of Nazi Germany’s Nuremberg laws, Elizabeth Warren would be considered white – by a very very wide margin – and who would have a higher standard for “white” than history’s preeminent white supremacists?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Classifications_under_the_laws

    The above was pointed out by Mark Steyn, who also pointed out that the media’s “white Hispanic” assessment of George Zimmerman wouldn’t fly under the same laws.

    Given what we’re told about the Nazis, it’s rather amazing that such anti-Semitic monsters would allow a person to be up to 1/8 Jewish and still be considered “German blooded” and approved for Reich citizenship. I’m not a fan of the Nazis, but I am a fan of the truth, and the truth about Nazis seems to be more complicated than we’re led to believe.

  104. Thomm says:

    I bet virtually all WASPs and Irish-Americans in the United States have at least 1/256th Native American ancestry.

    Similarly,

    i) All people with any European ancestry (which includes all African Americans and Hispanics) are descendants of Charlemagne.
    ii) All Eurasians are descendants of Genghis Khan.
    iii) All Europeans and all Muslims are descendants of Muhammad.
    iv) Almost all humans (outside of a few uncontacted peoples) are descendants of Confucius.

  105. res says:
    @res

    Partial answer from the Boston Globe article (paywalled so search for the title “Warren releases results of DNA test” and click on the search result):

    There were five parts of Warren’s DNA that signaled she had a Native American ancestor, according to the report. The largest piece of Native American DNA was found on her 10th chromosome, according to the report. Each human has 23 pairs of chromosomes.

    “It really stood out,” said Bustamante in an interview. “We found five segments, and that long segment was pretty significant. It tells us about one ancestor, and we can’t rule out more ancestors.”

    It seems like they are placing a great deal of weight on the largest segment. I wonder how much random variation can be expected in the fragment sizes. The relevant data is: largest segment from chromosome 10 was 13.4 cM, total 5 segments of 25.6 cM for an average size of 5.8 cM. Which means the other 4 segments have an average size of 3.05 cM so the chromosome 10 segment seems like a pretty big outlier.

    P.S. Figure 2 of the Bustamante report has a PCA plot showing where her Native American ancestry falls with respect to tribes. And incidentally shows which groups Bustamante used for comparison, I think.

    P.P.S. Testing Warren’s siblings would add to the accuracy of the estimate, but I don’t expect any rush to do that. The error bars are convenient for the narrative.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  106. Josif Lazaridis has some technical criticisms of Bustamante’s analysis.

  107. Iberiano says:

    The thing is, liberals always want/have it both ways. If Sen. Warren can use this to justify her use and/or acceptance as a “Person of color” or non-white, or however Harvard characterized her or used her (and we will never know the truth on that), then liberals need to have this new “Warren’s Law” penned to their collective foreheads.

    Anyone, any white man or woman who shows any DNA results indicating black, hispanic, native, asian or whatever, ancestry should be able to use it in the same passive way she did. We all know how the game is played. She only had to passively indicate she had NA blood to get that job at Harvard, and they did not hold her to the standards that are required by the feds and the tribes (various Dawes and Baker Roles, quantum blood amounts, etc).

    If that be the case, get your DNA, if you show 1/512th black, passively indicate on all applications, forms, etc, and if called out, merely note it “Warren’s Law”…and that you “were never really saying you were ‘black’, just that you had black / African ancestry”

    They need to be held to the same level of absurdism they demand we accept.

    • Agree: Travis
    • Replies: @Pericles
  108. res says:
    @gcochran

    I struggle with whether to congratulate them or ridicule them as an indirect attack on Affirmative Action. My thinking partly depends on how they respond to calling out the situation.

    • Replies: @Lowe
  109. Coemgen says:
    @Nick

    Does Elizabeth Warren’s DNA test show specifically Cherokee ancestry?

    Also, why would she need to use a specialist when there are multiple DNA test services available for reasonable cost such as 23andme?

    Most importantly, did she use her “Cherokee” ancestry to advance her career into the Ivy League?

  110. Jack D says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    So, you agree, whether Senator Warren was being “truthful” is not just simply a matter of genetics, which is Dr. Patterson’s area of expertise. It’s a complex question of what the standards are for enrollment in various tribes and what Sen. Warren said and did and when she said and did it, etc. It’s not at all a binary “truthful/not truthful” question.

    • Replies: @gcochran
  111. Jack D says:
    @Svigor

    Alinsky said, make the enemy live up to their own book of rules. I agree that AA is bullshit and you should game it as much as possible, but that’s not what the Left says. If Trump had done this they would be all over him like white on rice.

  112. Alfa158 says:
    @MEH 0910

    I can’t believe how many people here don’t get it that Nick is a troll. The real Nick Patterson wouldn’t be caught dead reading Unz.com. If his colleagues at MIT and Harvard knew he was, he’d be denounced as a White Supreeeeeemacist and booted.
    Also a real geneticist would understand that a sub one percent DNA connection is in the noise. My DNA results show me as 1% Irish and 2% German, which is absurd. The testing company states that any single digits percentage contribution is low confidence, and may simply mean that some of your alleles are common in that group. Only double digit percentage results are labeled as high confidence.

    On the other hand I can verify that Tyrion 2 really IS Elizabeth Warren.

  113. @South Texas Guy

    Why do you make donations?

    • Replies: @Dtbb
  114. anon[133] • Disclaimer says:

    You can’t expect family lore at this remove to be exact.

    Indeed, which is why one ought to double-check things before taking the affirmative-action job that rightfully belongs to a proper injun.

  115. Pericles says:
    @Bob who says learn from the tribes

    Plenty of international suppliers appear to be gearing up to sell cannabis to the US. (Among others, Israeli companies of course.) Enjoy.

  116. AWM says:

    Stanford professor, Carlos Bustamante, determined Elizabeth Warren’s DNA makeup.
    AND WHY SHOULD WE BELIEVE HIM!

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  117. res says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    You are incorrect.

    Strong words…

    If Senator Warren had an ancestor on the Dawes Roles, she would be eligible for Cherokee tribal membership with ANY amount of Indian blood. There is at least one known case of a tribal member with 1/1024 blood quantum.

    It is interesting how much tribal policies vary in this area: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_quantum_laws#Implementation

    It is not like the Dawes Rolls are gospel truth anyway: https://newsmaven.io/indiancountrytoday/archive/paying-to-play-indian-the-dawes-rolls-and-the-legacy-of-5-indians-3yha0LldYUaH7smRsrks8A/

    Nor is there any evidence she was ever an Affirmative Action hire. The evidence is she was hired years before she told them about her Cherokee ancestry.

    Just how sure about that are you? Do you have evidence?

    This seems rather damning: http://archive.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2012/05/31/elizabeth_warren_acknowledges_telling_harvard_penn_of_native_american_status/

    Warren’s new statement came after the Globe asked her campaign about documents it obtained Wednesday from Harvard’s library showing that the university’s law school began reporting a Native American female professor in federal statistics for the 1992-93 school year, the first year Warren worked at Harvard, as a visiting professor.

    The Harvard records do not list a Native American during the years Warren returned to her post at the University of Pennsylvania, but begin to list one in 1995-96, when she returned to Cambridge as a tenured professor.

    How exactly do you reconcile that with “years before”?

    But evidence doesn’t matter to people who have already made up their minds.

    Physician, heal thyself.

    • Replies: @candid_observer
  118. Anon[274] • Disclaimer says:

    If she is considered Cherokee, then I am African, Japanese, or non-Arab Middle Eastern; all which show up on my DNA tests at higher percentages than Elizabeth Warren’s Cherokee.

    Maybe I can get a book deal out of my struggle as I awaken to the fact that I too am a victim of that, glomming, oppressive whiteness.

    I’ll call it: The Audacity of Audaciousness: A Story of Race, Inheritance & Gaming the System

  119. @Alfa158

    So why’s Steve acting so deferential and starstruck?

    • Replies: @Alfa158
  120. @Steve Sailer

    Russia sent them to lose Her’s.

  121. @Anthony Wayne

    Yeah, Biden must be laughing his posterior loose.

  122. @Anonym

    Germans are good at war (the Romans figured this one out) and order but maybe not so good at forging the alliances that win wars on the world stage.

    Part of that is Hitler and hubris

    Germans have been great at the operational level but inept at the grand strategic level long before Hitler. Frederick the Great is perceived as a great commander, but his grand strategy in the Seven Years War was “hope the Tsarina dies.” (She did, and her heir being a Germanophile was the only thing that saved Frederick’s kingdom from conquest by the Russians). The Schlieffen plan of knockout France, then defeat Russia was a colossal dice roll. Wilhelm II’s foreign policy from the ouster of Bismarck to the outbreak of WWI lurched from one improvisation to another. Wilhelm-Hindenburg-Ludendorff strategic ineptitude led to US entry into WWI.

    Bismarck was clearly the best grand strategist in German history because (i) he had limited goals and (ii) when he reached those goals, he stopped.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
  123. @anonymous

    As another commenter mentioned, she’s laying the groundwork for a 2020 prez run. She knows the Pocahontas thing is a liability and she needs something that sounds like an official exoneration she can wave it away with.

  124. Lot says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    About 1 to 3% of legitimate births have misattributed paternity. Even using the low end, that means genealogies going back 500+ years are very suspect.

    On top of that, you have “same name” errors and adoptions (especially of young stepchildren and orphaned cousins and nephews) that are not clearly reflected in birth and marriage records. English gentry and yeoman last names were fairly diverse way back, but first names were not.

    My English ancestry research hit a bunch of blocks around 1650-1700, but I concluded it was for the best as further research may have been just compounding prior mistakes. All my entries before about 1750 I have little mental asterisks on.

    Ideally for each ancestor you have birth, marriage and death records, but further back you go you often just have 1 of them.

    I also have a few holes from my Anglo-Canadian ancestry. There are better online records from 1690 Konigsburg and 1660 Yorkshire than 1880 rural Canada. It’s a disgrace!

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
  125. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    The overt system is only the tip of the iceberg. You can be reasonably sure that they have a better intuitive grasp of the system as a whole than you (or Warren) do.

    That’s what new generations are for.

  126. @GermanReader2

    No evidence of that whatsoever. That is just conjecture on your part.

    Ms. Warren is a very smart, very ambitious person, otherwise she would never have been elected to the US Senate and be a leading contender for her party’s nomination.

    I had some situations from my own experience where I got a job, and AFTER getting the job I went to HR and told them I was an enrolled Cherokee. In one case, the HR lady practically begged me to put American Indian as my ethnicity on the forms. She went into great detail how good that would be for the company.

    How can you be certain that she got her job at least in part due to her claimed Cherokee ancestry?

    Because that is what you WANT to think.

    Those of us who are more evidence driven like to see the facts. Or does evidence only matter when claims are made against Republicans, like Kavanaugh.

    Sorry, what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

    Lots of people here saying there is evidence she used her proclaimed Cherokee ancestry to get ahead in her career, but the “evidence” quickly turns to conjecture when people are pressed.

    Fact of the matter is: there is ZERO proof so far she used her ancestry to get hired at Harvard.

    I have said before, and I’ll say again, I don’t care if she gamed the system or not. I know for a fact that the Trump family regularly gamed the system. I knew one of the Trump family tax lawyers, after all, well enough I was an usher at his kid’s wedding. I still have the souvenir yarmulke given to all the groomsmen. If it’s OK for Trump to game the system, it would be OK for Warren to game the system. The thing is, there isn’t any proof.

  127. D. K. says:
    @Nick

    As a proud Asian-American man, why would I listen to a privileged White man who is connected with an elite, White-dominated, virulently racist institution that shamelessly discriminates against me and mine because of our superior intellects and academic work habits?

    ***

    European
    99.7%

    Eastern European
    27.7%
    Slovakia

    British & Irish
    15.6%
    Ireland

    Balkan
    9.5%
    Romania

    French & German
    5.7%

    Scandinavian
    2.1%

    Italian
    0.8%

    Finnish
    0.2%

    Broadly Northwestern European
    24.8%

    Broadly Southern European
    2.8%

    Broadly European
    10.5%

    East Asian & Native American
    0.3%

    Siberian
    0.1%

    Broadly East Asian
    0.1%

    ***

    • LOL: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  128. @Almost Missouri

    OK, I’ve been disagreeing with a lot of people, but I agree with this completely.

    This is how politicians behave. She is a politician. Seems spot on to me.

  129. Pericles says:
    @Iberiano

    I suppose some of us could also get AA through results faked by anti-racist DNA testers.

    Morgan and his colleagues were caught between a rock and a really-want-to-mess-with-racists place. It would’ve been fun to throw a “10 percent West African” in there, but then they might have a pissed-off, dangerous person at their office, waving a gun. “Since we couldn’t do anything to the results (and we wanted to), what we did was add ‘< 1 percent' to each African category of ethnicity. That way we weren't lying, and they would both be wondering how much under a percentage point was. We always try to round to the nearest number because we sometimes hear about percentage points, but for them, we leave it open to whether it's a one or a zero."

    It's a compromise that's elegant in its passive-aggressive simplicity. And it got a result. "The near-N-bomber wrote to us asking what that meant, and we wrote back that it meant it was under 1 percent. And we were not saying zero. Unless they got another test, that was going to bother them. Maybe they weren't 100 percent Caucasian. I mean, they were, according to the results, but this way it leaves it open, and they'll always be wondering."

    http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2522-inside-shady-world-dna-testing-companies.html

    So hold my spot at Harvard! Out of the way, bigots! Warren’s Law coming through.

  130. Both Warren and Trump should be rapped for their ignorance of American history.

    Warren is from Oklahoma, which came into existence in the 1820s as “Indian Territory,” a region initially awarded to native people for “as long as the waters run, as long as the grass grows.” In a long process called “removal,” a bunch of southeastern nations–the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, and so on–were forced to give up their original homes and move to Oklahoma. In 1887 Congress passed the Dawes Act, which broke up tribal lands and forced individual tribal members to acquire them, a process called “allotment.” (Dawes was a senator from Massachusetts, which Warren now represents.) The allotment process was messy, to put it mildly, and especially so in Oklahoma, where the treaties that set up Oklahoma pretty clearly forbade it. So Uncle Sam set up the Dawes Commission to twist the arms of the tribes in Oklahoma. Eventually the tribes were forced to give in.

    The deal was that for native people to acquire what had been tribal land, they had to be full tribal members, which meant signing up on a US government list set up by the Dawes Commission. At the time, Oklahoma was in the middle of a land rush. So lots of white people applied for tribal membership fraudulently, claiming to be native to get their “free land.” Lots of local Dawes Commission officials were corruptly bribed into giving these white people tribal membership. Meanwhile, lots of actual native people refused to participate, because they thought (correctly, in my view) that their nations were being ripped off by a US government that didn’t keep its promises. Maybe worse, lots of native people who did agree to sign up were rejected, because they didn’t fill out forms in the right way or the right time or the right place. Or because some bureaucrat thought they didn’t “look Indian.”

    (This last happened all the time. Over the decades, Choctaw, Cherokee, etc., in the southeast had adopted a fair number of former African-American slaves into their tribes, some as slaves, some as freemen. Their children were full born-into-the-tribe tribal members but “looked black.” These “black-looking” native people were often rejected for tribal membership by state and federal bureaucrats who worked for the Dawes Commission, even though they spoke native languages, had been raised as native people, and knew no other life.)

    The end result: in Oklahoma, there are many people who are descended from “pure-blood” people who aren’t tribal members, and many with little or no native ancestry who are tribal members. Some of those latter people are the descendants of adopted tribal members, some are the descendants of frauds, and often, because some people are ashamed of their ancestry, their descendants don’t know which is which.

    So it’s entirely possible that Warren was descended from native people who didn’t like the Dawes Act and refused to sign up, thus giving her “native DNA”–but not making her a tribal member.

    The underlying point is that DNA tests have next nothing to do with “proving” whether people can count themselves as “native.” What counts is the decision of the tribal government. You can be 100% genuine native, fully accredited tribal member and have 0% “native DNA.” You can have 100% “native DNA” and not be a tribal member or recognized by any native group. In every case, the decision rests with the tribal government.

    In Oklahoma, the tribes (I think all of them) still limit enrollment to the descendants of the people on the Dawes rolls, even though the Dawes Act was repealed in the 1930s. This is a ruthlessly pragmatic decision–the tribes don’t want to open up a huge past can of worms.

    That means that in Warren’s case the tribal government–in this case, the Cherokee–has said that she is not a tribal member, no matter what her ancestry. End of story! Her erroneous claim may be understandable in human terms, but it is simply wrong. She shouldn’t have claimed native ancestry (fortunately, it appears that she didn’t get her job because of it, but just listed herself as native on some forms after getting her job (https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2018/09/01/did-claiming-native-american-heritage-actually-help-elizabeth-warren-get-ahead-but-complicated/wUZZcrKKEOUv5Spnb7IO0K/story.html). And Trump shouldn’t have brought up a DNA test, because the result wouldn’t prove anything one way or the other. Both of them are being idiots.

  131. Warren might have done better with a less scientifically rigorous service, say 23AndMe. According to them I’m 2% Eskimo/Inuit. I’m thus 5 times more Native American than Warren. And that 2% is surely a statistical artifact: my parents both immigrated to the US from eastern Europe after WW2.

    (Otherwise, it said 95% Ashkenazi Jewish and 3% generic European.)

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  132. What Trump realizes, and Warren does not, is that it means next to nothing politically whether she happens to have some very remote ancestor who was Native American. What matters is that she made a big deal of it to advance her career. She identified herself as Native American, rather than white. For Christ’s sake, she offered up supposedly old family recipes from her Native American side to be published in a Native American cookbook.

    Point is, most American voters will find these claims ridiculous and phony on their face. Trump gets this. His critics don’t, and never will.

    Once again, they will simply fall into his trap, thinking that he has fallen into theirs. The more they talk about it, the worse off they’ll be. They will dispute the trees, but Trump wins the forest.

  133. anon[196] • Disclaimer says:

    Is she more Indian or Neanderthal? Whatever that means. I think she is more related to the GEICO Caveman.

    How about endlessly get her on record for AA? Maybe she has an Asian in the Woodpile. Harvard has a position on that, no? I am a low information voter.

    • LOL: bomag
  134. Forbes says:
    @ic1000

    a hard-hittin’ interview of Ms. Clinton, where she came out swinging on Bill’s behalf as far as that ancient Monica unpleasantness.

    Raising the issue of the 20 year old stain means the Lewinsky episode is retold to today’s 20-somethings who would have no previous recollection of the late ’90s. Irrespective of the omission of the other ladies in Bill’s storied past, revisiting the Monica unpleasantness can’t be favorable for the Dems’ Me2/war-on-women agenda.

    For Dems, aren’t the Clintons past their sell-by date…

  135. @Peripatetic commenter

    She has even less than the average white American.

    Elizabeth Warren is so white, she’s whiter than John De Nugent.

  136. @Steve Sailer

    Would Neanderthal ancestry count towards AA benefits?

    Coincidentally, I’m currently reading Reich’s book and read about half of the American Indian chapter this very morning.

    Mr. Sailer you should write a blog on the black slaves held by the Cherokee and the lawsuits regarding the black descendants being qualified as Indians and hence eligible for casino benefits.

    Oh yeah, E W is not an American Indian.

    • Replies: @International Jew
  137. @Charles Pewitt

    You badmouth Robert E. Lee because of one bad decision. He brought his army into Pennsylvania as a last ditch effort offense, to get at the Yankee capital from the NW. Additionally, it allowed his army to live off of the resources of the North for a change. Does this make him “the bad guy”. Nathan Bedford Forrest wanted to continue the War of Northern Aggression as guerrilla war. It’s better that it ended at Appomattox Courthouse.

    The General has nothing to do with this ratbag of a G-G-G-G nephew. To think that I was about to vote for you for President.

  138. JimB says:

    One test by one researcher does not a confirmation make. A republican staffer needs to snatch one of Warren’s empty Evian bottles and send it to the FBI lab, since Democrats now seem to think they are the only ones who can be trusted. Why would anyone trust a leftist Latino genetics professor from a leftist university not to stick their thumb on the scale to confirm a leftist politician’s dubious ancestry claims to victim status, thereby doubling her intersectionality points?

  139. res says:
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    Good question. I did not even think to check that. I have to stop giving these people too much credit for honesty and attention to detail.

  140. Well, the ruling class has been rolling back the Sexual Revolution under cover of rape hysteria, so maybe this is the plan to roll back Affirmative Action – get enough whites to game it into absurdity.

  141. Lowe says:
    @llloyd

    No, you did not. She has no discernible Native American features.

    The world outside America would pick up she’s an American with the first words out of her mouth, not from non-existent native traits.

  142. res says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    No evidence of that whatsoever. That is just conjecture on your part.

    It looks like he got the details wrong, but here is the evidence: https://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-haberman/2012/05/fordham-piece-called-warren-harvard-laws-first-woman-of-color-123526

    For someone who drones on and on about evidence you sure don’t provide much of it yourself.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  143. Iberiano says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Meh…if you know anything about how the system works, be it local, state, federal or in this case, a college, you know that subtle hints can be used to craft a narrative. Her being listed as NA by the college indicates it was important–so important that she goes around talking about it (even before it gone thrown back in her face by other Natives and/or politicians). In the end, we both know she mentioned it years back to gain something…proving it to your satisfaction (I bet your a white liberal) at this point is irrelevant.

    What we do know, perhaps contrary to your overall strategic “evidenced-based” brilliant mind, is that the Kamala Harris’s of the world and her followers, are going to make the same arguments as Trump, should Warren actually look like she could get the nomination. You can’t really think, if you are that smart, that actual, real minorities are not going to make something of this, nor that they will not (correctly) pin her as the epitome of a privileged white woman seeking, yet again, to ruin the Dems chance at the presidency.

    If you are not that self-aware at this point, you might want to spend time listening to actual Blacks, Hispanic/Latinos and others–if you haven’t noticed, white women are being brought to bear as part of the collective “whiteness” that plagues our society. She will figure prominently in that should she really pursue the Dem nomination. I know this from liberal family members of varied backgrounds, close and extended, I have (we are Latino/Hispanic) who essentially agree with Trump on this, whether they say it or not–they get that she is a white woman who gamed the system and made inflated, if not false claims about her ancestry, or it’s significance at least. The fact that it is beer-thru-the-nose funny to actual Indigenous/Latinos indicates to me it is being joked about even more widely than my anecdotal experience.

  144. Anonymous[240] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve, I’m sure Dr. Patterson is brilliant and all, but physiognomy is real and that alone is sufficient to be skeptical of his claims. And I’m not talking about Warren here.

  145. Lowe says:
    @OP

    Yes, but virtually nobody in the United States sees Mexicans as natives.

  146. The great genetic challenge has been missed, but it’s not too late to have some fun. Being that Obama’s “parents” are dead and burned I am hereby offering one billion dollars which I may or may not have to The One hisself to match his DNA with his alleged half-siblings in Africa.

  147. @anonymous

    This woman certainly has hutzpah.

    Just checked with my rabbi and he’s prepared to certify Elizabeth Warren 1/8 Jewish on account of her hutzpah.

    • LOL: Almost Missouri
    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  148. @res

    “piece of Native American DNA was found on her 10th chromosome”

    I have an ongoing contest in my mind for the best epitaph for the Republic. You know, something that Shelley’s “traveller from an antique land” can read and so understand “the decay of that colossal Wreck”.

    Last week, I was thinking it would be something about a teenager’s calendar from 1982. This week, the above is my new candidate.

    From

    Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!

    to

    At least we weren’t racist!

    in just 3000 years.

    Are we really sure evolution is moving forward?

  149. utu says:

    So what is it: 8 generations meaning 1/256 Indian or 5 generation meaning 1/32 Indian?

    “25.6 centiMorgans” out of “the female genome is 4782 centimorgans long” is between 1/2^7 and 1/2^8.

    And what about this: “You can’t expect family lore at this remove to be exact.”? If we summed up all the nonsense people are telling themselves about themselves within their families the Mayflower would have to be the size of several USS Gerald R. Ford’s.

  150. @yaph

    Harvard Law School touted Warren’s Injun background to rebut accusations of insufficient diversity. This was just a year after they hired her:

    Although the conventional wisdom among students and faculty is that the Law School faculty includes no minority women, Chmura said Professor of Law Elizabeth Warren is Native American.

    In response to criticism of the current administration, Chmura pointed to “good progress in recent years.”

    https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1996/10/22/survey-diversity-lacking-at-hls-pa/

    Somebody ought to make sure that article gets into the Wayback Machine, before it gets pushed down the ol’ memory hole.

  151. MEH 0910 says:
    @Steve Sailer

    He’s not the Great Nick Patterson.

    Nick says:
    January 24, 2012 at 1:18 pm GMT • 100 Words

    I’m a 37-year-old data/analytics geek at a large bank.
    ……

    This Nick wasn’t even born yet in 1972 when “the” Nick Patterson started working at Great Britain’s secret Government Communications Headquarters.

    • Disagree: MEH 0910
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  152. @gcochran

    Except if it’s our enemies who hate us and are intent on destroying us. Then we should attack them relentlessly.

    • Replies: @Issac
  153. @Almost Missouri

    Unfortunately, the Boston Globe fucked it up and had to issue a correction.

    I say that Trump should cut her a check for the fraction that her previous claim differs from the best guess provided by the study, and he would be regarded as a good sport.

    Oh, wait. There are people now saying that Bustamante used South American DNA, not DNA from local Indians. How much will that affect the accuracy of his claims?

    I think Trump is going to have a lot of fun with this whole business starting with his next rally.

  154. songbird says:
    @Steve Sailer

    There used to be this pulp character in the ’30s and ’40s called the Shadow. His arch-nemesis, Shiwan Khan, who featured in the 1994 movie with Alec Baldwin, was supposed to be the last descendant of Genghis.

  155. @res

    Warren’s new statement came after the Globe asked her campaign about documents it obtained Wednesday from Harvard’s library showing that the university’s law school began reporting a Native American female professor in federal statistics for the 1992-93 school year, the first year Warren worked at Harvard, as a visiting professor.

    The Harvard records do not list a Native American during the years Warren returned to her post at the University of Pennsylvania, but begin to list one in 1995-96, when she returned to Cambridge as a tenured professor.

    That pretty much seals the deal against Warren’s claims she wasn’t using her Native American ancestry to promote her career.

    Nobody but a fool would believe her protestations otherwise.

  156. @Tiny Duck

    Didn’t notice who the author was and based on the text I didn’t need to. Tiny, do you have a racist reply generator where you just type in a few code words and out pops a TD approved racist reply?

    ALL your replies seem to be pretty much the same one just worded slightly differently…..all boiling down to one thing “white me are bad and everyone else is good no matter what”

  157. @Nick

    Here’s Warren in 2012 telling an interviewer that her paternal grandfather objected to her father’s marriage to her mother on the grounds that her mother was “part Cherokee and part Delaware.”

    At that degree of remove there would be no discernible Native American phenotype, so I think it’s more likely Warren just made this up on the fly. Her parents and grandparents are long dead, so that’s that.

    Historically, native and Anglo intermarriage in the eastern seaboard was not unheard of. There’s actually a romanticized American view of mixed settler and native ancestry, as it establishes your bona fides as a “son of the soil.” It’s only become more stigmatic in current times, as the human stock and social welfare on the reservations declines. Warren’s ancestry well pre-dates the Trail of Tears to Oklahoma.

  158. GW says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    The point is to make libs play by their own rules. White libs came up with affirmative action. Let them face the negative consequences for violating their own sacred beliefs.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  159. Barnard says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Wouldn’t it have made more sense to say something like, “I believed my family story about our Cherokee ancestry, but it looks like it may have been exaggerated and is from more generations back in my family tree than I realized.” She could get all this out of the way now and if anyone brought it up during the campaign she could call an “old, settled issue” and try to wave it away then. Claiming this exonerates her and is proof she was right makes it worse.

  160. gregor says:
    @MEH 0910

    Good call. I don’t see a guy like that commenting on 9/11 truth articles or using phrases like “we wuz kangz” and “Zionist Illuminati Jews.” If a serious academic were shitposting on here, you can bet he would do so anonymously.

  161. D. K. says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Thank you, my fellow Asiatic! We all must stand together against the depredations of toxic paleness!!

  162. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    I realize that her former bosses claim that her identifying as a Native American made no difference, but I simply don’t believe them.

    Exactly. The idea that her claim to be an Indian didn’t help her get hired as a tenured professor by Harvard Law School is preposterous. The legal profession is notoriously credentialist, and HLS is the pinnacle of that worldview. Most of the professors there have undergrad and law degrees from Harvard or Yale, and many have master’s degrees from Oxford as well. Elizabeth Warren – B.S., University of Houston; J.D., Rutgers Law School (currently 62nd in the nation according to USN&WR) – stands out like a sore thumb. Something got her hired, but it clearly wasn’t her law school, nor has she produced any earth-shattering scholarship that would appear to overcome her mediocre education. So what was the difference-maker?

    https://hls.harvard.edu/faculty/directory/?l=l

  163. @BB753

    Quite right. This whole thing relies on the assumption that all the 37 Injuns in Bustamante’s reference sample are 100% Injun. Where the heck are you going to find 37 full-blooded Injuns in 2018?? You’d be lucky to find even one.

    Our population reference set consisted of 148 individuals (a continental reference panel of 37 individuals from across Europe, 37 from Nigeria with Sub-Saharan African ancestry, 37 from across the Americas with Native American ancestry, and 37 individuals from China).

    https://tinyurl.com/ycedk7fa

  164. gregor says:

    CNN’s TV coverage was going nuts playing this up like Trump just got BTFO’d. Apparently Trump said he’d pay a cool million for a DNA proving she’s Indian, and they seem to think this makes the cut. They weren’t very interested in reporting the actual percentage for obvious reasons.

  165. Spud Boy says:
    @Thulean Friend

    Trump has an amazing knack for finding suitable nicknames. Pocahontas really hits the bullseye.

    Actually, I think Fauxcahontas is a far more suitable nickname.

  166. @Almost Missouri

    In which case why can’t Americans do Pocohontas’ family tree?

  167. @Paleo Liberal

    Harvard Law School doesn’t grant tenured professorships to graduates of Rutgers Law School. Ever, except for Elizabeth Warren. Explain that.

  168. anonymous[207] • Disclaimer says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    As a Real Native American, can you enlightened us if its appropriate to torture captives by cutting before or after the second fingerbone?

    At day break the Hurons brought Saunadanoncoua outside and placed him upon a platform about six feet high. Three or four Huron mounted the platform with him and as the sun rose, they burned him without regard for his life. They forced firebrands down his throat and into his anus. They burned out his eyes and placed a necklace of heated hatchet blades around his neck. They poured water down his throat and upon seeing that he was motionless, they cut off first a foot, then his hand, and finally his head, which they threw into the crowd. Later, they gave it to Ondessone who ate it. The other Hurons ate most of Saunadanoncoua’s remains at a feast later that day

    Or help us understand the appropriate role for child care after torturing the mother to death?

    In 1696, the Iroquois captured a Catholic woman near the Mission of the Sault and took her and her child back to Iroquoia where they beat, slashed, and burned her with hot irons. The woman continued her prayers, and implored these Iroquois to embrace Catholicism. While this type of scene was not unheard of, what makes it shocking is that this woman was Iroquois. She lived near the reserves, and was captured and tortured by traditionalists. She continued to invoke God, the Saints, and the Holy Virgin until her captors stabbed her with a bayonet. When she did not die even after the bayonet broke off inside of her, some of her tormentors began to believe that the Catholics could not be killed. She finally died when the Iroquois threw her upon a fire. For several days, her small son continued to call out to his dead mother until the Iroquois killed him as well.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  169. @YetAnotherAnon

    The issue is not whether Pocahantavirus has any Indian blood. The question is whether she is a “minority” as she claimed to be in law school teaching directories for 10 fraudulent years. Anyone familiar with higher ed knows this had to have helped her career. The fact that she now has academics on a dog & pony video claiming it had “no impact” is hardly credible since their goal would be to spread the myth that higher ed hiring is 100% meritocratic, which it hasn’t been for probably 5 decades. She’s a fake and a fraud but the silver lining here is that this will only get worse for her as she pushes for higher office.

  170. @Jimi

    We already have a Wise Latina on the nation’s highest court, so why not a mature tepee-totaler like Jokeahontas in the Oral Office? It can count as an interest payment on reparations to women and natives.

    • LOL: Jim Don Bob
  171. @YetAnotherAnon

    Those crafty WASPS kept excellent records of all three from the moment they arrived in Massachusetts. The Dutch in New Amsterdam weren’t bad either.

    But the Scotch-Irish who moved into the Carolinas and then westwards freom the early 18th century were terrible at it, and, being mainly illiterate, didn’t care. Warren probably got her stories about “Cherokee blood” from ancestors of that background.

  172. @Nick

    Bustamante’s report studiously avoids supplying detailed information about any part of Warren’s ancestry other than the 0.4% Injun fraction.

    https://tinyurl.com/ycedk7fa

    I wonder what % African he found her to be. He does say “We find little or no evidence of African ancestry in this sample.” Ok, but “little” is a good way to describe 0.4% Injun ancestry too.

    Let’s see the numbers! What if Warren turns out to be 0.8% African? Would she dare go around saying she’s “black”? She’d get crucified if she did.

    I understand now why Warren went to this guy, rather than just 23AndMe. 23AndMe would have provided a report that covered all the bases.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Jefferson
  173. sondjata says:
    @International Jew

    Actually they address that in the paper.
    1) “It is not possible to use Native American reference sequences from inside the United States, since Native American groups within the US have not chosen to participate in recent population genetics studies.”

    2) “For Native American references, we used samples within the 1000 Genomes project of Native American ancestry; these samples come from Mexico, Peru, and Colombia. ”

    The primary objection here is/should be the use of some 1/256 Native American DNA to “race claim” when convenient. If she can do it, then any and everybody should be able to.

    • Replies: @International Jew
  174. If there’s anything surprising here it’s that an American whose family has lived here for over 200 years is only 1/256th Injun.

    • Replies: @Lot
    , @William Badwhite
  175. @MEH 0910

    Looking through your comment history makes me question whether you really are “the” Nick Patterson.

    More likely Nick Diaz.

    • Replies: @anon
  176. @GW

    The point is to make libs play by their own rules.

    They’re not liberal, in any meaning of the term. They’re progressive.

    And their only rule is that they maintain power, and win every argument.

    • Replies: @GW
  177. El Dato says:

    OT: After homeopathic amounts of Indian, we hear about Big Homo being pushed by the BBC:

    BBC effort to combat ‘heteronormative’ culture ‘baffles’ social media

    It’s all part of a new set of “diversity” reforms at the public broadcaster. The new portrayals of LGBT characters will be “incidental” — which means that their sexuality will not be the focus of the storyline or news item.

    But it’s not just an on-screen effort. Off-air, LGBT staff will be encouraged to “bring their whole self to work” and be open about their sexuality with their co-workers — something which sounded a bit “creepy” and weird to some who reacted to the news on Twitter.

    Danger Will Robinson! Don’t go to the stalls alone!

    It has also been recommended that staff should get used to using “non-binary” pronouns where appropriate so as not to offend gender-fluid or transgender employees by mistake. This involves using the terms “them” and “they” instead of “he” and “she”.

    Non-LGBT staff will even be asked to wear badges labelling themselves as “straight allies” or to use special email signatures declaring their status.

    Frankly this sounds so outlandish that I nearly believe it is fake news?

    The BBC seems to be a gay magnet (also a paedophile magnet, but that’s for some other time):

    The recommendations have been made after a survey of LGBT staff attitudes, which found that some perceived the broadcaster to have too much of a “heteronormative” culture. LGBT staff, however, account for only 11 percent of the total workforce at the BBC and 12 percent of staff in senior positions.

    “I couldn’t give a monkey’s whether people are gay or not and believe in equal rights etc but only 2% of the population is gay (according the the Guardian) so why is the BBC getting its knickers in a twist?”

  178. Lot says:
    @GermanReader2

    Lani Guinier was the first WOC Harvard law professor. She was in the news during Clinton’s first term.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lani_Guinier

    Her black immigrant father was admitted to Harvard college in 1929 and was later a professor there. Her mother is from a NYC Jewish family.

  179. @candid_observer

    Another absurd statement from Warren, back in 2102:

    “In the 1930s, when my parents got married, these were hard issues,’’ Warren said. “My father’s family so objected to my mother’s Native American heritage that my mother told me they had to elope.

    “As kids, my brothers and I knew about that. We knew about the differences between our two families. And we knew how important my mother’s heritage was to her. This was real in my life. I can’t deny my heritage. I can’t and I won’t. That would be denying who my mother was, who my family was, how we lived, and I won’t do it.’’

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/05/31/elizabeth-warren-says-ancestry-won-deny-who/EAmq34oLv18nu0P8xKOpbK/story.html

    So her mother was so “Native American” that her father’s family put them in a position that they had to elope?

    And her mother was herself at most 1/32 Native American?

    Oh, and add this to the mix:

    https://elizabethwarrenwiki.org/elizabeth-warren-native-american-cherokee-controversy/#warren-story-about-her-parents-elopement-cast-in-doubt

    Could you have a more obvious lie?

    • Agree: Charles Pewitt
    • Replies: @Jack D
  180. @Alfa158

    “The real Nick Patterson wouldn’t be caught dead reading Unz.com. If his colleagues at MIT and Harvard knew he was, he’d be denounced as a White Supreeeeeemacist and booted.”

    If Mr Unz has done his coding well, I too think it unlikely that is Mr Patterson, though you never can tell. Maybe he still does a bit of security work on the side, but I thought he was more of a maths guru than a provocateur.

    From his comment history, he thinks that “Zionist illuminati Jews do worship the devil“, he describes Ferguson looting as “undocumented shopping“, he’s a fan of Frank Salter (as we all should be), he’s married to a Nicaraguan who gets her genes done at 23andMe rather than Reich’s lab, he has four kids, studied medieval philosophy at grad level, and knows a lot about cross-cultural homosexual practices in tribal societies. I guess that last might point to MI6/GCHQ …

    Also he’s “a 37-year-old data/analytics geek at a large bank” – a data bank run by Reich? but says he doesn’t have enough knowledge to debate Razib’s commenters.

  181. Tiny Duck has provided us this link:

    Warren releases results of DNA test

    And it says:

    Warren has 12 times more Native American blood than a white person from Great Britain and 10 times more than a white person from Utah, the report found.

    This means Elizabeth Warren is not a fake. It also means Archibald Belany was not a fake, either. Both had Native American ancestry, just one less than the other. So both could have validly claimed to be Native American.

    If one considers Mrs. Warren to not be a fraud (if and when she claimed to be Native American), but Mr. Belany to have been a fraud (when he did the same to become Grey Owl), then:

    1) Warren is a genuine Native American because of cultural traditions her family passed down through the generations. Belany had no such cultural traditions in his family. He was a Briton.

    That is a valid argument, but justifying it with a genetic test is not valid. She could’ve been more or less Native American, genetically speaking, than Belany or the average White Briton — it is irrelevant. She has Native American cultural family traditions and he didn’t. So she is Native American and he wasn’t;

    or

    2) one stops being considered Native American at some point, including genetically, so that Warren is of Native American ancestry but the average White Briton (which likely included Belany) isn’t.

    If I’m reading it correctly, then being 1/32nd to 1/512th Native American counts, but being ~1/380th to ~1/6000th Native American does not count — if it does, then, genetically speaking, having a little Native American ancestry is meaningless. Somewhere along the line it starts being just background noise. Where it does — that is the question.

    Personally, I’ll take the safe route: neither are frauds. Neither misrepresented themselves. Both have Native American ancestry. Both are Native American. Both deserve plenty of commemorative plaques and freshly-baked gluten-free chocolate chip cookies.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  182. Lot says:
    @International Jew

    Plenty of old stock Americans test 0.0% Indian on 23andme. But she is probably less Indian than the average old stock Oklahoma white.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  183. Lowe says:
    @res

    Whether to congratulate or ridicule them depends on whether they are seeking public office. If seeking public office, ridicule.

  184. Lot says:
    @MEH 0910

    There are probably multiple people who post as Nick. Those comments do not seem to have been written by the same person.

    • Replies: @gregor
  185. @OP

    Correct, and the reason is obvious: the Native Americans were a worthy foe, a free people, a race of warriors. Not bad-looking either. A small amount of their blood was, shall we say, “processable”.

    The blacks were a race of slaves, and their women were hideous. So … no thanks.

  186. Anon[423] • Disclaimer says:

    Wow, interesting comment thread. Nick Patterson. Gregory Cochran. Did I mention Nick Patterson?!

    And Nick has 19 other comments in his history. Quite a variety of interests and views (and sobriety levels, judging from the copyediting).

    I noticed that Senator Warren anonymously requested the analysis, and only publicized it after it came up with a result she liked. The question arises: Were there other analyses from other investigators that she has not released? It’s like saying, “I took a lie detector test,” after having taken ten of them under NDAs.

    The commercial services do have one advantage over Professor Bustamante: If you consent, your sample is added to their database where your kin can find their connections to it. This keeps things honest, verifying to a certain degree that it’s your sample. Warren could submit her results to GEDmatch just to make things perfectly transparent.

  187. Lot says:
    @International Jew

    “Where the heck are you going to find 37 full-blooded Injuns in 2018?? You’d be lucky to find even on”

    Few on the east coast, plenty in Arizona and South Dakota. The Navajo both look a lot like Eskimos and have more Eskimo-wave ancestry than east coast indians however. In other words chubby and siberian faces and skin that’s more yellow than red.

    • Replies: @International Jew
  188. gcochran says:
    @Jack D

    tribal enrollment is completely irrelevant.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  189. Steve,

    Have you confirmed that this is the real Nick Patterson, or does he need to maintain plausible deniability?

    Whichever, his argument misses the point, which is that she loses a lot of credibility among both those who have been tempted to do what she did as well as those who are the intended beneficiaries of Affirmative Action.

    You’ve got to demonstrate more than a trace amount of ancestry to get out of that jail.

  190. ic1000 says:
    @MEH 0910

    > Looking through [Nick's] comment history makes me question whether [he] really [is] “the” Nick Patterson.

    The “‘Nick’ comments” page appears to include the writings of at least two commenters using the “Nick” handle and another going by “nick”. The style of “Nick Patterson” in this thread is entirely different from those of most of the other listed comments.

    It looks to me like this Nick is the real deal. Thanks for commenting, Dr. Patterson. I hope you respond to the best of the replies to your remarks.

  191. @Jack D

    It is virtually unheard of for a Rutgers law school graduate to become a professor at Harvard.

    Well, in my business, a graduate of a fourth-tier university (U Texas at Arlington) can become a professor at Harvard — the Henry Lee Professor of Economics no less.

    https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/home

    Oh wait…

    • LOL: Gordo
  192. @Paleo Liberal

    the number given was not 1/256. It was anywhere from 1/32 to 1/512.

    What? The Bustamante report says 8 (+- 2) generations = 1/256, with 1/64 to 1/1024 as the high and low estimates.

    Here’s Warren propaganda sheet The Boston Globe slithering around the inconvenient arithmetic. They are trying hard to keep 1/32 in play because that’s the tribal membership threshold:

    Bustamante calculated that Warren’s pure Native American ancestor appears in her family tree “in the range of 6-10 generations ago.” That timing fits Warren’s family lore, passed down during her Oklahoma upbringing, that her great-great-great-grandmother, O.C. Sarah Smith, was at least partially Native American.

    Smith was born in the late 1700s. She identified as white in historical documents, though at the time Indians faced discrimination, and Smith would have had strong incentives to call herself white if possible.

    The inherent imprecision of the six-page DNA analysis could provide fodder for Warren’s critics. If her great-great-great-grandmother was Native American, that puts her at 1/32nd American Indian. But the report includes the possibility that she’s just 1/1024th Native American if the ancestor is 10 generations back.

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2018/10/15/warren-addresses-native-american-issue/YEUaGzsefB0gPBe2AbmSVO/story.html

    If her g-g-g-grandmother was partially Native American, that puts her only at 1/32 of the partial Native American ancestry. Which both the report and the historical documents suggest is no more than 1/64 American Indian and probably 2 or 4 times lower.

    • Replies: @academic gossip
  193. her fellow Oklahoman, Will Rogers, “The Cherokee Cowboy”, would have had some choice sarcasm for Warren’s goofy claims. She has precious little in common with, say, the average Osage living on the reservation.
    For your enjoyment, from YouTube, Will Rogers’ movie of his rope tricks. The roping, horsemanship, and scenery of Old California is wonderful:

    A 1922 silent short film starring (and written by) Will Rogers, in which he shows off many of the rope tricks that made him a vaudeville star with the Ziegfeld Follies from 1916 to 1925.
    There is a minimal plot, involving a love interest and a rival, but it is only a device to get as many lariat tricks as possible into the 20-minute movie.
    The rope used was painted bright white to show up well against darker backgrounds. In addition, slow motion (at 1/10th speed) is employed to great effect in many sequences, which show dexterity that still looks absolutely amazing today. Very likely, some of these routines have never been surpassed.
    There exists a 1992 version with commentary by Will Rogers, Jr. (then 81 years old). That narrated version also includes several minutes of out-takes, which put into perspective the incredible difficulty of several of the routines that Will Rogers demonstrates in the film.
    (Incidentally, Will Rogers, Jr., who was about 10 when the original film was shot, made an uncredited appearance in it, doing a very simple lariat maneuver. You can see him at about 9:15 into the film.)

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
  194. @Old Palo Altan

    Calm down, Teddy Roosevelt.

    Read contemporary accounts. Not too flattering.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
  195. @Tyrion 2

    And if you’re Elizabeth Warren, I’m a monkey’s uncle … or at least 0.4% of one.

    • Replies: @Bubba
  196. Trump did offer to pay $1 million, though. So, Warren being 1/256th Native American, as a man of honor Trump needs to cough up $3906.25

  197. Jack D says:
    @International Jew

    I trust this guy’s report just as much as I trust that all 13,000 emails that Hillary deleted concerned Chelsea’s wedding plans or that Chrissy spoke only to her beach friends about her testimony. This is obviously a carefully constructed document that has been vetted by Democrat lawyers, political consultants, etc. down to the last period and comma. It is weasel worded and intentionally omits more than it states.

    If Warren was really sincere she would just send her sample into 23andme like the rest of us and release the standard report (at least as a 2nd data point). But they will never do that – Democrats always want to maintain control of the narrative and they wouldn’t be able to control 23andme’s computer generated results the way they have Bustamante. How much did Bustamante get for this or was it “pro bono” like Chrissy’s legal fees?

    • Replies: @International Jew
  198. Nick says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Well Hello Elizabeth!

    Nick

  199. @International Jew

    He should do that. Publicly at his next rally. The Left hates being mocked.

  200. @ic1000

    Ok, but why would a guy like that bother to post on a site like this? And if he did, wouldn’t he throw in some strong insults to immunize himself from accusations that he’s giving us respectability?

  201. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    By her logic, all white people(and Asians) should identify as Neanderthals.

    I’ll bet she has more Neanderthal blood than Indian blood.

    Cognitive Dissonance. If she is so proud of her Indian blood, she must know Indians were rubbed out by Immigration-invasion and Forced Diversity. So, if she feels so much for Indians, why is she for Mass-Immigration-Invasion that will lead to the New World being conquered not only by whites but by non-whites all over? Are white people subconsciously seeking accomplices(partners-in-crime) and promoting Diversity so as to lessen the guilt of ‘genocide’ of the native folks? After all, if all the world comes to the New World, then the narrative goes from ‘whites conquered Indians and stole the land’ to ‘whites welcome non-whites and shared the land’.

    Progs ‘celebrating’ indigeneity and diversity both makes no sense.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
  202. Wency says:
    @HJK

    Any sort of generic Protestant American is almost certain to have at least one ancestor dating that far back.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  203. gregor says:
    @Lot

    The other Nick comments are really recent though. And I didn’t think Ron allowed people to use a handle already in use? I just tried to post this as Lot and Nick and it didn’t let me.

    • Replies: @Lurker
  204. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    By Warren’s logic, if a white person is 1% black, should he get AA?

  205. Jack D says:
    @gcochran

    I disagree. If Warren was actually enrolled as a member of a tribe or was even ELIGIBLE to be enrolled in some tribe, she could make some colorable argument that she actually is “a Native American” as the Daily Beast triumphantly proclaims her to be. If she was enrolled, regardless of her blood quantum, then she could rightfully claim AA benefits, casino royalties, hunting rights, whatever benefits her tribal enrollment entitles her to receive. But she ain’t and that is highly relevant.

    Or, maybe she is not enrolled but that’s just thru some accident of history or because of overly strict tribal rules but really she is 1/8th Indian or some meaningful % – I would buy that also.

    Or, maybe there was a “failure of paternity” but she grew up on the reservation and was immersed in Native American culture. That would be OK – not her fault.

    But she is NONE of the above. She has a tiny, tiny fraction of Indian blood – there are probably hundreds of thousands or millions of white Americans who have that much Indian blood and make no claim of being Indian, nor should they because it is a de minimis amount.

    • Replies: @Le Autiste Corv
    , @ic1000
  206. J.Ross says: • Website

    I recognize Patterson’s qualifications but cannot convince myself that Patterson’s conclusion is not inexcusable ignorance about the issue papered over by science degrees. This is like when people try to say that Raphael Lemkin never existed and genocide is only genocide after a significant portion of the target people have been shot. The scientific data cannot rewrite the legal definition. Warren is not a Cherokee granting several times the most generous estimate of her genetic material.
    If that sounds wrong, consider that I share a lot more genetic material with Patterson than Warren shares with Selu. Therefore I am Patterson and withdraw my conclusion.

  207. @gcochran

    Affirmative action is pure horseshit,

    True

    and we should congratulate anyone who games it.

    Not so sure. The sort of people you select with this policy may not be the sort you’d want in positions of prominence.

    • Replies: @Le Autiste Corv
  208. @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    Yep, it would be a drastic change from the forward-looking, responsible, honest leadership we’ve come to expect out of DC since the 1790′s.

    The way to destroy a system is to make it so ludicrous nobody respects it.

    I don’t see the GOP bowtie nerds or MAGA chuds being any help here. They’ve all become the tribal police, and are so angry that someone is stealing Native ancestry from the real victims, the true, and rightful beneficiaries of federal largesse. Because, as everyone knows, when you lose a war you deserve to have the winners subsidize you forever.

    I honestly think some of these idiots are only opposed to AA for blacks, but are ok with it for obese sorts on the Res cause muh Native American Warrior was a troop or something

  209. MEH 0910 says:
    @ic1000

    How could Nick Patterson log on to the other Nick’s account without his password?

  210. @Lot

    Sure, they “look Indian”, but you don’t know they’re 100% Indian. For the kind of Principle Component Analysis Bustamante did, he could get away with an “Indian” reference population that was less than pure, if he found Warren to be 25% Indian. But not to identify a trace amount like a 1/256th.

    • Replies: @Lot
  211. I saw something that said the actual part was 1/1,024 … less than 0.1%. Statistically zero for all intents and purposes.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
  212. @MEH 0910

    Of course it’s coming, and the sooner the better.

    Otherwise humanity sinks back into a slime of mediocrity the hideous outlines of which are already starkly apparent.

  213. ic1000 says:
    @bgates

    > Here’s a reputable-looking study (by Reich et al!) which “studied the genetic ancestry of …148,789 [self-described] European Americans

    Good catch, bgates. In the paper’s section “Patterns of Genetic Ancestry of Self-Reported European Americans ,” they note that “3.5% and 2.7% of European Americans… carry African and Native American ancestry, respectively.” I don’t see the lower threshold that qualifies a European American as having Native American ancestry, but it is well under 1%.

    Wikipedia gives the European American population of the U.S. in 2010 as 223 million. So by the Elizabeth Warren standard, there are about 6 million self-described “whites” who should benefit from Affirmative Action for Native Americans, by ancestry.

    For context, InfoPlease.com relies on Census Bureau figures to estimate the Native American population of the U.S. at 6.6 million in 2015.

    Back to Bryc et al. (2016): Look at the lower-left colored dot of Figure 5 at high magnification; that’s Elizabeth Warren’s cohort. It depicts how mostly-European people with under 2% Native American and under 2% African ancestry self-declare. Effective 100% say they are European-American. (Caveat — there may be a typo in the legend, with “Hispanic” substituted for “Native American”.)

  214. Jack D says:
    @candid_observer

    And there’s this:

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2012/10/elizabeth-warrens-white-great-grandfather-shot-an-indian/

    Her maternal great grandfather (supposedly in the line that has Indian blood according to family lore) is identified in the story as being white (and as having shot a drunken Indian).

    If her “Indian blood” was really descended thru the line that she claims, it should be possible to test her Crawford (and other cousins) and see if they have the same Indian segments. Or else her actual Indian blood could just be a coincidence from the other side of her family and have nothing to do with the BS elopement story that she tells.

  215. Anon[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    See, this is why the “STEM will save us because scientists aren’t SWJs” autistes are WRONG. Here’s “genius” geneticist Nick Patterson lying for the Democrats:

    “The simplest conclusion is that Senator Warren has been telling the truth here. This issue should be dropped.”

    Maybe a few classes in logic or ethics might have helped along the way.

  216. @Nick

    Me, a gay right wing bodybuilder: How does testing for South American DNA mean there’s a possibility she s Cherokee?

    You, a famous science person: “look this makes my narrative hurt who really cares?”

  217. @Anonym

    Are you kidding?

    Britain and the USA, or rather Churchill and Roosevelt, were by this time (1941-2) fully paid up members of the “unconditional surrender” club.

    They would have welcome a Soviet invasion from the East and proclaimed Stalin as “Uncle Joe” even more enthusiastically than they actually did.

    • Replies: @Anonym
  218. Well that’s it then. I’m voting for her.

  219. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

  220. Eagle Eye says:
    @Flemur

    If you go back over 5 or 6 generations , you don’t necessarily have any DNA at all from any given ancestor.

    Not correct. This assertion ignores the effect of meiosis. Corresponding pairs of chromosomes get broken up and randomly re-assembled each generation, resulting in successively smaller splinters. So even 20 generations down, a descendant will still retain some SPLINTERS of ancestral DNA.

    This mechanism is the basis of much paleo-anthropological research, e.g. figuring out when “admixture events” occurred by looking at the size of DNA splinters.

  221. @Jack D

    rightfully claim AA benefits”

    People in other parts of the world don’t think this way, unless they’ve been infected by Anglos. We are suckers and deserve what we get.

  222. SF says:
    @sondjata

    I think it said 6 to 10 generations back. I have a known second cousin who is listed as a probably fourth cousin on Ancestry DNA. So it seems reasonable that an estimated eighth generation ancestor could be a sixth generation ancestor, with a half breed fifth generation ancestor. That said, it’s not enough for a minority hire.

  223. anon[196] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    But he is at least 1/128th Nick Patterson.

  224. @academic gossip

    The Globe has issued two corrections about this. It looks like the numbers were reported first as 1/32 to 1/512, then 1/32 to 1/1024 (what I quoted), and now 1/64 to 1/1024 in accordance with the Bustamante report.

  225. @eah

    Dear God. With this punchable face and despicable attitude, it’s no wonder Christianity is on retreat.

    • Replies: @GW
  226. Jack D says:
    @Lot

    You are correct. Whiteness was once a thing that was guarded in American and most white Americans, even those whose families have been here for 200+ years, are often 100% white or close to it.

    That is true for MOST white Americans but not ALL. See ic1000′s post below – there are probably around SIX MILLION self identified European Americans who could make the same claim as Warren, 2.7% of the overall white population (this would DOUBLE the # of Native Americans vs. the currently accepted #), but that % would probably be much higher in Oklahoma.

    The flip side of that is that blackness or Indianness was NOT closely guarded and so people who are 100% black or even 100% Indian are vanishingly rare.

  227. @Jack D

    And yet, goodthinkers are now going to line up behind this new dispensation about Elizabeth Warren, just as determinedly and uncompromisingly as they lined up behind Christine Blasey Ford’s accusations.

    This is like the OJ Simpson trial, when one part of the country couldn’t believe how deluded the other part was.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  228. @Anonym

    Germans are good at fighting wars. They are terrible at deciding when and whom to fight.

    • Replies: @Futurethirdworlder
  229. Thirdtwin says:

    When people say that the average American has twice as much Indian DNA as Warren, what data are they using to determine that? Probably not data from testing as rigorous as Bustamante’s. If someone actually had twice the Indian DNA that Warren claims, would that even show up on 23 & Me? Warren should take one of the plebe DNA tests like the rest of us, just for comparison.

  230. ic1000 says:
    @Jack D

    > [Elizabeth Warren] has a tiny, tiny fraction of Indian blood – there are probably hundreds of thousands or millions of white Americans who have that much Indian blood and make no claim of being Indian

    About 6 million.

  231. @Anonym

    If he had waited for the USSR to attack Europe my guess is that the US and England would have had to intercede on the side of the Germans.

    Just like they did in WWI?

  232. Jack D says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    So much dishonesty. No wonder Trump calls it “Fake News”.

    Here’s the Bloomberg headline:

    Sen. Elizabeth Warren Proves Native American Lineage

  233. @Lot

    Funny you should say that (about Canadian records).

    Only today I was doing some languid research on a Canadian bunch of cousins, and, not for the first time, ended up shaking my head at the paucity of that wretched little nation’s records.

    And, using Google street view, have you ever noticed how ugly and mean the greater part of even their supposedly middle class domestic architecture is?

    We really ought to have gone up there and cleaned the place out long ago.

    And I fully agree with the body of your comment.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Hank Yobo
  234. Eagle Eye says:
    @Peripatetic commenter

    Couldn’t it just mean [Fauxcahontas] has about the same level of Indian ancestry as the average White American.

    Thanks to Genghis Khan and his polo team, West Europeans gained a smidgen of East Asian admixture that would overlap with ancient American Indian DNA. This is still noticeable in some European individuals.

  235. @Raymund Eich

    The Germans are also terrible at public relations. The British are great at PR. That was crucial in getting the U.S. into WWI.

    • Replies: @Sam Malone
  236. Well, well, well, an Elizabeth Warren Wiki with a thorough search of Warren’s ancestry though the line she claims had Indian blood:

    https://elizabethwarrenwiki.org/elizabeth-warren-native-american-cherokee-controversy/

  237. GW says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    What a silly non-sequitur.

    Leftists (does that term work for you) have plenty of rules they work to impose on society. They don’t just want power, they want to advance their globalhomo agenda on us.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  238. GW says:
    @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    Oh yes, this guy is a real Christian alright. Just like Warren is an Indian.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @ThirdWorldSteveReader
  239. @eah

    LOL, their slogan could be something like “Be proud of your roots and embrace the Diversity”

  240. Jack D says:
    @International Jew

    Not just goodthinkers, but also low information voters who see Fake News headlines like “Elizabeth Warren is Native American”. The Leftist press is obviously putting out these intentionally misleading headlines as fast as they can in order to make the 1st and hopefully permanent impression on the low information voters. The truth is in the 10th paragraph but who reads that far?

  241. Only in America would a blond, blue-eyed person who is 0.4% Indigenous and has no other connection whatsoever to a Native tribe be considered an Indian.

    Actually, no, not even in America. Shame on Fauxcahontas.

    • Replies: @Le Autiste Corv
  242. Jack D says:
    @Old Palo Altan

    Canada is a lower income country than the US and so they live in more modest houses, drive more modest cars, etc. You would think that with their cold climate you’d see tons of 4WD vehicles on the road, but no, what you see on the road are mostly stripper minivans and low end sedans.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Old Palo Altan
  243. Dtbb says:

    I would love to see a presidential debate between Warren and Trump turn into a spitting contest.

  244. Anonymous[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    My mother is Austrian but with some central European mixture. She always said her father looked a bit hunnish.

  245. @Thulean Friend

    Trump has an amazing knack for finding suitable nicknames. Pocahontas really hits the bullseye.

    Two First Ladies, Edith Wilson and Nancy Reagan, were genuine descendants of Pocahontas.

  246. @MEH 0910

    As far as I recollect this is the first comment I have made on this blog.
    (Except for a few comments on Razib’s blog when he was on Unz)

    Too many Nicks !

    Nick

  247. @GW

    Leftists (does that term work for you) have plenty of rules they work to impose on society. They don’t just want power, they want to advance their globalhomo agenda on us.

    Until they change their minds. Then they’ll impose something else on us. But the imposer never changes.

    Many of the things today’s progressive decries are the work of earlier progressives. Prohibition, anyone? Eugenics?

  248. @GW

    There must be a name for the phenoomenon that leads the least Christian of Christians (this guy), the least Indian of Indians (Fauxcahontas), and least Black of Blacks (Dolezal) to become the most strident and obnoxious representatives of their respective groups.

    • Replies: @Iberiano
  249. Let’s not forget those wacky Mormon Indians that came over from the Middle East!

  250. Meanwhile, yesterday’s LA Times made a pretty big deal about House Majority Leader McCarthy’s bro-in-law. He potentially benefited through no-bid minority contracts, as he claims to be of Cherokee ancestry (1/8th!).

    http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-na-pol-mccarthy-contracts-20181014-story.html

  251. So she is at least 99.6% European, probably more. Sounds like a white gal to me. One of those silly truth-o-meters should say her claim of being enough Native American to qualify for Affirmative Action spoils would be “pants on fire”.

  252. @International Jew

    My earliest traceable ancestor arrived here in 1668 and according to 23andMe (and a lack of family lore) I have 0% Indian.

  253. Blood linkage or no, I think its kinda disingenuous to go around preaching about your Native American ancestry when it really has nothing to do with who you are. I mean, if she was active in tribal government or had a history of representing the issues of a specific tribe maybe I could understand. Otherwise its just this:

  254. I think everyone’s missing the obvious here: Who collected the DNA sample? And how do we know the DNA Bustamante analyzed was actually Warren’s?
    For all we know Warren could have found out previously she had no NA ancestry and found somebody who, like her, was mostly European but had a verified NA ancestor about the same as the ancestor Warren claimed to have? So the sample should be tested to see if it even came from Warren mirrored samples of her close relatives.

  255. Anonym says:
    @Old Palo Altan

    You have to go back further than 1941.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
  256. I’m thinking that the bottom line here for Warren’s future is that she will never get close to being President.

    But she can stay Senator, because it is, after all, Massachusetts.

    They could dub her Lioness of the Senate.

    Hear her roar!

    • Replies: @Jack D
  257. @Nick

    In a very Euro and rural part of the country — 98% — a friend of mine’s business in the 1970s had to conduct its first ethnic census to satisfy public contracting requirements. Five percent reported Native American ancestry – not at all apparent from phenotypes or from prior personal stories.

    Warren could be an opportunist. But the genetic measurement and a better understanding of Cherokee society together show that her claim is quite plausible. More worrisome is that she has no cultural connection to that heritage.

    Remember, the Cherokee were one of the five civilized tribes, well-developed, organized, and governed. European settlers at the frontier were not averse to joining their society. In some instances, whites or blacks could be Cherokee, similar to how Chinese or Indians can be American. To get a sense of this setting read Charles Frazier’s terrific novel, Thirteen Moons.

    At the age of twelve, an orphan named Will Cooper is given a horse, a key, and a map and is sent on a journey through the uncharted wilderness of the Cherokee Nation. Will is a bound boy, obliged to run a remote Indian trading post. As he fulfills his lonesome duty, Will finds a father in Bear, a Cherokee chief, and is adopted by him and his people, developing relationships that ultimately forge Will’s character. All the while, his love of Claire, the enigmatic and captivating charge of volatile and powerful Featherstone, will forever rule Will’s heart. In a voice filled with both humor and yearning, Will tells of a lifelong search for home, the hunger for fortune and adventure, the rebuilding of a trampled culture, and above all an enduring pursuit of passion.

    John Ross was Chief of the Cherokee Nation

    John Ross Wikipedia

    [MORE]

    Ross’s life resembled prominent Anglo-Métis in the northern United States and Canada. Scots and English fur traders in North America were typically men of social status and financial standing who married high-ranking Native American women. Both sides believed these were strategic alliances, helping the Native Americans and the traders. They educated their children in bi-cultural and multilingual environments. The mixed-race children often married and rose to positions of stature in society, both in political and economic terms.[9]

    In the 18th century per Wikipedia

    The traders and British government agents dealing with the southern tribes in general, and the Cherokee in particular, were nearly all of Scottish ancestry, with many documented as being from the Highlands. A few were Scots-Irish, English, French, and German (see Scottish Indian trade). Many of these men married women from their host peoples and remained after the fighting had ended. Some had mixed-race children who would later become significant leaders among the Five Civilized Tribes of the Southeast.[38]

    Notable traders, agents, and refugee Tories among the Cherokee included John Stuart, Henry Stuart, Alexander Cameron, John McDonald, John Joseph Vann (father of James Vann), Daniel Ross (father of John Ross), John Walker Sr., John McLemore (father of Bob), William Buchanan, John Watts (father of John Watts Jr.), John D. Chisholm, John Benge (father of Bob Benge), Thomas Brown, John Rogers (Welsh), John Gunter (German, founder of Gunter’s Landing), James Adair (Irish), William Thorpe (English), and Peter Hildebrand (German), among many others. Some attained the honorary status of minor chiefs and/or members of significant delegations.

    Early 19th century

    The Cherokee allied with the U.S. against the nativist and pro-British Red Stick faction of the Upper Creek in the Creek War during the War of 1812. Cherokee warriors led by Major Ridge played a major role in General Andrew Jackson’s victory at the Battle of Horseshoe Bend. Major Ridge moved his family to Rome, Georgia, where he built a substantial house, developed a large plantation and ran a ferry on the Oostanaula River. Although he never learned English, he sent his son and nephews to New England to be educated in mission schools. His interpreter and protégé Chief John Ross, the descendant of several generations of Cherokee women and Scots fur-traders, built a plantation and operated a trading firm and a ferry at Ross’ Landing (Chattanooga, Tennessee). During this period, divisions arose between the acculturated elite and the great majority of Cherokee, who clung to traditional ways of life.

    Civil war

    The American Civil War was devastating for both East and Western Cherokee. The Eastern Band, aided by William Thomas, became the Thomas Legion of Cherokee Indians and Highlanders, fighting for the Confederacy in the American Civil War.[59] Cherokee in Indian Territory divided into Union and Confederate factions, with most supporting the Confederacy.

    Stand Watie, the leader of the Ridge Party, raised a regiment for Confederate service in 1861. John Ross, who had reluctantly agreed to ally with the Confederacy, was captured by Federal troops in 1862. He lived in self-imposed exile in Philadelphia, supporting the Union. In Indian Territory, the national council of those who supported the Union voted to abolish slavery in the Cherokee Nation in 1863, but they were not the majority slaveholders and the vote had little effect on those supporting the Confederacy.

    ….

    After the Civil War, the US government required the Cherokee Nation to sign a new treaty, because of its alliance with the Confederacy. The US required the 1866 Treaty to provide for the emancipation of all Cherokee slaves, and full citizenship to all Cherokee freedmen and all African Americans who chose to continue to reside within tribal lands, so that they “shall have all the rights of native Cherokees.”[60] Both before and after the Civil War, some Cherokee intermarried or had relationships with African Americans, just as they had with whites. Many Cherokee Freedmen have been active politically within the tribe.

    What I’ve presented admittedly is a simplification of a more complex history.

  258. @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    Indeed, shame on her. Those benefits are rightfully limited to actual descendants of the people we defeated because that is how conquest is supposed to work. You fight a people, they kill and torture some of your community, including infants, and then you give their obese, diabetic descendants casino monopolies, business perks and other subsidies ad infinitum

    • Replies: @ThirdWorldSteveReader
  259. Anonym says:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/10/15/1-native-american-elizabeth-warren-slams-trumps-attacks-on-our-heritage/

    Such dishonesty suits the Dems (maybe politicians in general can be economical with the truth) but Bill Clinton was more honest IMO when he said he did not have sexual relations with that woman. He may have had vaginal sex with other women or a blowjob from Lewinsky, but not vaginal sex with Monica.

  260. utu says:
    @Jack D

    The interest on a mortgage for a principal private residence in Canada is not tax deductible.

    Debt per capita $36k versus $61k in the US.

    Switzerland has much higher GPD per capita than the US yet it has only 43% house/apartment ownership. And they are small.

  261. THIS JUST IN – ELIZABETH WARREN AND THE DEMOCRAT PARTY HAVE OFFICIALLY ENDORSED THE “ONE DROP RULE”

  262. Jack D says:
    @candid_observer

    Just like Obama’s shady birth certificate kept him from being President, right?

    The MSM/Democrat version (but I repeat myself) of this is now and forever more – “Elizabeth Warren scientifically PROVED that she was a Native American (and Trump failed to pay his $1 Million bet).” If you ever mention this again, they will tell you, “that old canard – don’t know you know it was scientifically proved?” And then they will laugh at you and accuse you of being an ignorant hick for even bringing up such obviously false charges which have no relevance to the wonderful qualifications that Liz Warren has for being our first woman (AND first Native American!) President.

    • Agree: dfordoom
    • Replies: @Iberiano
    , @candid_observer
  263. utu says:
    @Alfa158

    On the other hand I can verify that Tyrion 2 really IS Elizabeth Warren.

    A victim of botched circumcision.

  264. OFF TOPIC

    Botched Interrogation

    Tweet from 2015:

    Make a deal with the Russians and the Chinese and the Iranians and the Israelis and take the oil.

    What would William the Conqueror do?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  265. Lot says:
    @International Jew

    How would remote rural tribal land where 99% of the pop looks and identifies as full Indian gain more than trivial non Indian ancestry? These are areas that have only had sparse white settlement for 100-150 years. It is a really different world than fake rich east coast Indian reservations.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
  266. OFF TOPIC

  267. Whiskey says: • Website

    Flood the zone. Every White dude claim Indian ancestry and claim 0.04% DNA of Indian background proves it.

    Flood the zone.

  268. OFF TOPIC

    Botched Interrogation

    Tweets from 2015:

  269. Mr. Blank says:

    Assuming my DNA results from a commercial outfit are reasonably accurate, I have more black ancestry than Elizabeth Warren has Native American ancestry. Can I apply to Harvard as a black guy?

  270. eah says:

  271. @International Jew

    Well, in my business, a graduate of a fourth-tier university (U Texas at Arlington) can become a professor at Harvard — the Henry Lee Professor of Economics no less.

    https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/home

    Oh wait…

    Odd, in the photo you don’t look Jewish at all..

  272. Anon7 says:

    For me, the most interesting thing about Fauxcohantas is that, very early in her adult life, she saw that female privilege alone was not going to be sufficient for her ambitions.

    What if being 1) Female and 2) Cherokee Indian is not sufficient to make her President? Will she go looking in her DNA for more Pokémon points? (Would they be racial? Or medical – perhaps she can claim to be disabled?) Or in her background? Or perhaps her subconscious mind contains some heretofore hidden trauma?

    Is there a set of rules for who has maximum privilege? A calculus of victimization?

    We might find some guidance in the Rules of Precedence for British nobility:

    The Precedence Act (which technically applies only to determine seating in the House of Lords Chamber) and the Acts of Union with Scotland and Ireland generally set precedence for members of the nobility. The statutes of the various Orders of Chivalry set precedence for their members. In other cases, precedence may be decided by the sovereign’s order, by a Royal Warrant of Precedence, by letters patent, by Acts of Parliament, or by custom.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_precedence_in_the_United_Kingdom

    Perhaps we need our own Precedence Act to set this all straight.

  273. @Paleo Liberal

    The Native Americans’ decision to use genealogy instead of genomics to determine tribal membership was a crackerjack way to ensure the destruction of the tribe. Of course, this is only true for the “civilized tribes” and other tribes that became highly admixed by the 1800s (e.g. the Oneida and other New England tribes).

    It is amusing that mestizos and puros indios can’t claim any sort of special federal goodies. And “Hispanic” is such a huge class that, outside rarefied environments like academia or journalism, being Hispanic doesn’t get you much social capital the way being “Indian” does.

  274. Iberiano says:
    @Jack D

    Except that brown liberals/SJWs are not going to let another white women screw up their (perceived) chances at the presidency. It will be an “all bull shit” aside moment when the Left Coast politicians have to call it what it is…the woman isn’t Native, she isn’t a person of color, she gamed the system…there may be varying degrees of how she is called out, but fully expect her to be, at least if she gets close to looking like she might get the primary nod. Kamala Harris and her followers will be less kind than Trump.

    She will never be the DNC nominee for president.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  275. Anon[346] • Disclaimer says:

    When you’re native American very far back, it’s more likely you’re a descendant of some east coast tribe. She’s just as likely to be anything from Penobscot to Seminole, because it wasn’t until around 1790 or so that whites began to settle west of the Appalachian mountains. Unless your white ancestors lived in Georgia or the Carolinas before 1839, it’s highly unlikely you have a Cherokee ancestral mix before that date. Those were the ancestral Cherokee lands before they were moved to Oklahoma in 1836-1839.

    However, I really doubt the value of Warren’s test. Since 23andme has admitted to lying about their results because they maliciously wanted to screw around with people, I am skeptical of all DNA results from every company that does any testing. Scientists tend to be liberals, and there needs to be independent verification of Warren’s results from a conservative scientist before I’ll believe anything about her ancestry.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Paleo Liberal
  276. J.Ross says: • Website

    I see a pattern between Patterson defending one one thousandth Cherokee race trace radiation, 23andMe spiking results for apparent racists to show a pittance of Mandingo blood, and Henry Louis Gates playing modern day astrologer to the stars. Since the SJWs are concerned with identification and not consequence (in fact, they’re positively ignoring genetic consequences) this is some big triumph for them. One might call their bluff by asking if some testable ability or trait could be bet on, given a one-one thousandth connection: they would refuse and demur that the important thing is universal mixture, not who gets which nose.
    Every good technology arrives hidden in asinine promises (TV is educational, aircraft will end war, radiation is healthy, vitamins can replace diet). Learning what genetics is not good for is part of establishing its value.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
  277. pyrrhus says:

    She really is a freaking liar, having said on TV that her mother was an oppressed Cherokee….https://www.theburningplatform.com/2018/10/15/pocahontas-puts-her-foot-in-it/

  278. @llloyd

    Dude she has no tangible Native Ancestry. Her facial features could just as easily be Scandinavian.

    I don’t think the “idea of Native ancestry” shaped our physiology…the frontier environment did. Successful settlers probably had more testosterone than the average peasant European….leading to more “hard featured” men and women among Americans. Also darker-complected settlers were probably more likely to survive in the South/Southwest. Modern white southerners are generally pretty tan for being overwhelmingly of British descent, and I’m guessing the “dark Brits” fared better in the heat/humidity before air conditioning, were probably less likely to get a number of illnesses, than did gingers and blonds, who were probably more susceptible to skin cancer and heat stroke.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
  279. IHTG says:

    Oof:

  280. Anon[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lucas McCrudy

    Warren has been gradually drifting into greater and greater amounts of absurdity during her political career. She has also become more dogmatic and shrill with age. Women with the latter set of traits tend to be come unelectable over time. This is because the average voter begins to think they’re voting for the crazy, ranting village witch-hag instead of a more sensible person.

    When you become elderly, you have to keep your remarks on middle ground or you sound like a loon to everyone else.

  281. Iberiano says:
    @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    Bigotiers….or Bigoteers…I once heard the term and it seems fitting.

    They are pioneering their own exhaustive search for perceived bigots…while simultaneously pretending to be actual POCs working on behalf of a group (X) that they don’t really belong to.

    There probably should be a DSM term for it too, like “Complex Self-perceptial Histio-Chronic Hyper Disassociative Identity Organizational Disorder“, or CSPHCHDIOC as it is better known, whereby someone assumes the complex cultural and ancestral identity commonly associated with another racial/ethnic group, and seeks to organize enforcement of cultural boundaries, accepted conduct and redress involving said group by both in-group and out-group individuals. Persons suffering from this disorder tend to come from homogeneous (frequently white) ancestral and cultural backgrounds, marked by historical, familial, and individual narcissism, an incessant desire and need to supervise others’ behavior, and a heightened lack of self-awareness.

  282. Pat Boyle says:
    @HJK

    I just read that the red haired dessicated mummies found in the Tarim Basin had a haplotype of R1a1a. I spit in the tube for 23andme. I found out for my $100 that I am also R1a1a.

    So I guess I can claim to be Chinese. How can I manipulate this factoid to get some government goodies?

    I would like a Ferrari.

    • Replies: @Steve in Greensboro
  283. @Anon

    When you’re native American very far back, it’s more likely you’re a descendant of some east coast tribe. She’s just as likely to be anything from Penobscot to Seminole…

    There was almost no interbreeding between New England English and local tribes, even during times of good relations. It’s much more common in French Canadian ancestry, but not necessarily in the heart of Quebec.

  284. @Nick Patterson

    It’s a wilderness of Nicks !

    (Still, if Nick reckons between 1/64 and 1/1024 makes you of “native American lineage” – which is what he’s implying although he’s careful with his words, then I’m 98% African (you just have to go back rather a long way).

    @Reg – “it’s much more common in French Canadian ancestry” – well we all know the French.

  285. @Jack D

    I don’t see Obama’s birth certificate on the one hand and Warren’s ancestry on the other as inflicting anything like the same level of damage.

    Obama’s birth certificate issue always bordered on the crackpot. There was never any particularly good reason to think Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii. It was always quite plausible – maybe quite probable — that he would have been. The only real question was, did a legitimate document back it up?

    I think the thing that really gave the birther thing some real life was that Obama for a long time simply refused to produce a birth certificate that would settle it. It seemed reasonable to wonder whether there wasn’t a real problem because he wouldn’t settle it if he easily could.

    But when the document was produced, it became pretty hard to keep up the idea that there was a problem. Now the fact that it was produced by the partisan hacks in the Hawaii state government should give us pause. But there was nowhere for the conspiracy to go after this, even if doubt remained.

    But Warren is on the record claiming that her mother and father eloped because of her mother’s supposed Indian ancestry. That is just absurd on its face, given the actual level of ancestry involved. And there’s clear independent evidence they didn’t elope.

    Add to that her identifying herself as Indian for governmental forms, and the crazy Indian recipe book business.

    She’s not going to escape all that, politically.

    The interesting question is who will be the first of her Democratic opponents to do the concern troll thing, and talk about how she isn’t electable because of her Indian problem. Not that they would care, of course — it’s such a trivial issue! — but those awful Republicans would tear her to pieces over it!

    Expect much sincerity.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  286. Anon[346] • Disclaimer says:

    Becoming obsessed with your ancestry is a common characteristic of many women once they pass a certain age, and southern women with white trash ancestry like Warren are especially prone to it. Usually they try to connect themselves via a fake claim to British royalty through something dumb like Charles II and Flora MacDonald. Warren is just afflicted with a variation of this because the British nobility is declasse among her minority-loving academic crowd. Warren is only a less addled version of Rachel Dolezal. Both Dolezal and Warren used their fake minority status to land themselves a cushy job, and both have clung to their claims no matter what.

  287. MEH 0910 says:
    @Nick Patterson

    Too many Nicks !

    https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Nick+Patterson

    That’s more like it. You’re “the” Nick Patterson!

  288. Thea says:

    What percentage of Americans would register 1/256th of Indian? Likely most due to testing error Should they all receive a Harvard job and Senate seat?

  289. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    This is so very true. The British in the 20th century were superb at propaganda, subtle or not so subtle. The Germans were tone-deaf and awful at communicating persuasively their goals and ideals, even when they deigned to attempt it.

  290. @International Jew

    His current research focuses on education reform, social interactions, and police use of force.

    His research is, as Derbyshire says, “blackety, blackety, black…”

  291. MEH 0910 says:
    @Alfa158

    It turns out that he’s the real Nick Patterson getting mistakenly posted on the other Nick’s account. Here’s his own account, with his comment history with Razib Khan at Unz.com:

    https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Nick+Patterson

  292. @Anonym

    Purely for argument’s sake I’ll admit that a Soviet act of aggression in, say, 1935-38 might have given the Tory government a big enough of a fright to allow it to entertain the idea of an alliance with Hitler against such a threat. After all, many of its members were much more anti-Soviet than anti-Nazi.

    But what evidence do you have that such an attack was ever seriously contemplated?

    And if there is evidence for it, well, then Hitler did wait for it, and it never came.

  293. @Anon

    But this is Oklahoma

    At the time of the Trail of Tears, the Chief of the Cherokee tribe, John Ross, was 1/8 Cherokee and 7/8 Scottish. He did not speak Cherokee. Most of the Treaty Party members were 1/2 Cherokee, and generally had white or mixed-race wives.

    I was involved in some Native American organizations while in graduate school on the east coast.

    There are tribes in the east that have no full-blood members left. Some of these tribes first interacted with colonists in the 1600s.

    Also, there was quite a lot of interbreeding between Indians and blacks, to the point where it is said that almost every American descended from slaves has some Indian blood. I knew a number of Indians with quite a bit of African descent, esp. from the east coast. That really was a shock for Indians from further west.

    Then, there were the tri-racial isolates, such as the Jackson Whites in NJ and the Lumbees in North Carolina. Pure Indians are rare or non-existent in the tri-racial isolates. There is some chance the Lumbees are descended from the Roanoke Colonists. When the Lumbees were discovered in the late 1700s, they dressed in English clothes, spoke Elizabethan English, farmed like Englishmen, and had surnames which matched surnames of Roanoke Colonists. On the VDare web site there is some humorous speculation as to whether modern-day Lumbee Heather Locklear is descended from Virginia Dare.

  294. Kaz says:

    If all it takes is less than 3% of something to call yourself ‘X Ameriacn’ then we have a potential booming industry available to us..

    This is laughable, MSM declaring victory that yes Warren is in fact Native American…

  295. Ancestry.com updated my ethnicity estimates recently. Now I’m 100% Northwest European. Here is their summary of the changes since the previous estimate:

    “No Longer in Estimate
    Europe East 3%
    Iberian Peninsula 1%
    European Jewish 1%
    Europe South <1%
    Asia South <1%"

    Here's the reason they gave:

    "This update features:
    16,000 reference samples (13,000 more)
    380 possible regions (17 additional)"

    I'm also in 23AndMe and FamilyTreeDNA. The three differ from each other by more than 1%.

  296. @res

    I asked your question over at GNXP since Razib is weighing in. Let’s see if he responds…

  297. @candid_observer

    I think Steve Sailer did the best job of debunking the Obama-born-in-Kenya myth, using Occam’s Razor.

    There are two logical possibilities. And remember, at the time, travel between Kenya and Hawaii was so expensive that Barack Obama, Sr. had to be funded by a foundation set up by the Kennedy Family in order to afford air fare to the US.

    Which of these is objectively more likely:

    1. Obama took his 9-month pregnant wife on an extremely expensive journey to Kenya so she could give birth in a hut supervised by his FIRST wife, the one he hid from Stanley. Because spending more money than he could possible save up to have his son born in a third-world hut rather than in a first-world hospital in the US just made so much sense.

    And, they somehow managed to telegraph the birth to the Honolulu papers, with false claims that the birth had been performed at Kapiolani Hospital. And, they managed to get both Democrats and Republicans to put together a fake birth certificate. And, they bribed a nurse on duty to remember the birth.

    2. Obama took his wife, in labor, to Kapiolani Hospital in Honolulu.

  298. @Jack D

    I did reflect after I had made that comment that I was forgetting the cold climate: the row and semi-detached houses do at least conserve heat (as they do in the northern fastness I live in now – although my own place is a free-standing villa with 14 foot ceilings, something delightful during the (fleeting) summers, but regrettable now, and for the next five or six months.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  299. Iberiano says:

    Right on time…the woman will never get out of the primaries.

    https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/cherokee-nation-issues-statement-on-sen-elizabeth-warren-s-dna-test-results

    She specifically claimed Cherokee ancestry and also attached herself to the (often factual) story of Oklahoma White/Indians.

    Like Trump said, no one cares that she has some “speculative” 1/1,000,000th NA heritage. She’s white, raised white, white parents, white culture and experience.

    She’s also a racist for even trying to adopt NA heritage.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
  300. Jack D says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    In 1973 this would have been a good idea. Should have done it then and spared us a shitty decade. But now we’ve found plenty of oil and natural gas of our own and the world is moving toward renewables anyway. So not worth it now.

    • Replies: @Bubba
  301. Anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    I can out-Occam your Razor:

    With billions of people to choose from (or perhaps to be cloned in secret labs) WHY would the NWO reptiles chose for their empty suit/Manchurian Candidate someone WHO COULD OBVIOUSLY BE DISQUALIFIED FROM RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT?

    Imagine the Manchurian Candidate film ending thus: “Oh, wait, turns out Sen. Islen was born in Kenya, so he can’t run anyway. The End.”

  302. @Pat Boyle

    I have not sent my genetic material to any of the testing services. YET.

    I assume that significant percentages of my genome acquired from historically oppressed ethnies. I know this because I FEEL oppressed.

    But I would be willing to trade my racial preferences in advance of testing sight unseen for a pony.

    The powers that be should take me up on my offer, because after I take the test, the price for remediation for my past oppression will likely go up substantially.

  303. M_Young says:

    Larry David, 37% native American.

  304. OT – Steve, did you note Paul Allen’s demise today? He was worth one of your eulogies. And I guess we now know why they don’t use the word “cure” with us..

  305. map says:
    @Nick

    As others have noted, the issue was never whether Warren had “Native American ancestry.” It was whether she is a Native American. Clearly, she is not.

    Even if she claims native american ancestry, the real comparison is whether this fact is remarkable for her ancestral background. How many Americans whose family was around since before the frontier closed could claim that they actually have NA ancestry?

    The report further claims that Warren has more native american ancestry than someone “from Utah or Great Britain”, which, in both cases, she would have 0%. That is how dishonest the study is.

  306. @International Jew

    That would be a brilliant response. I hope someone suggests that to him. It would force the media to mention her tiny percentage of American Indian DNA.

  307. @J.Ross

    23andMe spiking results for apparent racists to show a pittance of Mandingo blood,

    Not doubting you, but can you direct me and others to any articles or links discussing this? Err, asking for a friend.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  308. @Paleo Liberal

    No evidence of that whatsoever. That is just conjecture on your part.

    Ms. Warren is a very smart, very ambitious person, otherwise she would never have been elected to the US Senate and be a leading contender for her party’s nomination.

    Circumstantial evidence is still evidence. Here are some supporting circumstantial facts:

    1. Harvard is desperate to virtue signal by admitting students and hiring faculty who are POC, and semi-qualified Native Americans are especially hard to come by.

    2. Harvard’s policy is to lower standards and give POC individuals a huge degree of preference. (See e.g. Cornel West – ’nuff said).

    3. Harvard was willing to treat Warren as a bona fide Native American based on her “family lore” alone.

    4. A person who is both “smart” and “ambitious” would not forego such a windfall opportunity (especially if she really believed in her status and in affirmative action generally).

    5. Harvard did, in fact, hire her and tout her as its first female “professor of color.”

    A reasonable jury could find on this record that Warren more likely than not took advantage of her “heritage.” It would be futile to expect Warren and Harvard to admit these facts — especially fact #2, although everyone in the universe knows it’s true.

    Whether it matters or not is another question. I agree that it doesn’t. Like Trump said in the context of paying the least amount of taxes possible — taking advantage of affirmative action just shows how “smart” she was to game the system effectively.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  309. @International Jew

    Shouldn’t Trump have his own genome tested and pay her the difference? And what if his Amerindian percentage is greater than hers?

  310. Totally Serious Question: What is the baseline reference date that the commercial testing sites use in estimating the geographical region that genes supposedly are likely to come from?

    Is it based on regional populations in current times (minus obvious recent immigrants)? Or the extrapolated genetic composition of the regions in 1900? 1800? some other earlier time?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  311. @Tiny Duck

    “All it takes is for one tiny rock to start the avalanche” or one large mouth bass to eat a tiny duck.

  312. @The Alarmist

    Much less than 0.1%. It would be around .001.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  313. Jefferson says:

    Artie Lange took a DNA test and found out he has way more Native American ancestry than Elizabeth Warren, yet he still self identifies as White and not as a Person Of Color like Elizabeth Warren does. Which makes sense because Artie Lange is not a Woke Social Justice Warrior trying to milk the affirmative action system, so he does not care about gaining diversity brownie points.

  314. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Germans are cursed by being a landlocked country surrounded by people willing to team up against them anytime they tried to exert themselves.

  315. @Anon

    EW has the same white scolding school marm persona that many people, especially men, hate. Kamala Harris is the black version. Neither is going anywhere.

  316. @Paleo Liberal

    Foreign birth was the rabbit hole THEY wanted us all to go down to deflect from the obvious problem of Obama’s birth, the fact that his father was a British subject at the time of junior’s birth. Then they did the whole staged Senate resolution 511 stating that McCain was a natural born citizen. I am glad that they allowed “the empty chair” to be president, we got Trump as a result.

  317. Elizabeth Warren is not an Indian. However, her daughter is married to a guy from India and she has East Indian offspring. Her son Alexander Warren seems to have a black son. This woman is looking for protection for her miscegenated grandchildren. Her grandchildren will be the base of the Democratic party.

  318. @YetAnotherAnon

    For some reason, the original comment got crossed up with a different commenter named Nick. You can read Nick Patterson’s comments here:

    http://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Nick+Patterson

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  319. Apparently, the Cherokee Nation issued an official statement on Warren’s DNA test results. It raises the interesting point that her test results cannot distinguish “whether a person’s ancestors were indigenous to North or South America.”

    So maybe she is actually Mexican!

    “A DNA test is useless to determine tribal citizenship. Current DNA tests do not even distinguish whether a person’s ancestors were indigenous to North or South America. Sovereign tribal nations set their own legal requirements for citizenship, and while DNA tests can be used to determine lineage, such as paternity to an individual, it is not evidence for tribal affiliation. Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong. It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is prove. Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage.”

    - Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin, Jr.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  320. @Le Autiste Corv

    Yep, it would be a drastic change from the forward-looking, responsible, honest leadership we’ve come to expect out of DC since the 1790′s.

    How do you think you got your wonderful leadership? You have been selecting liars for a long time (we all have all the time, but that’s no excuse to give them more venues to fool people). Warren has been benefiting from pretending to be an Indian for decades. As have many “African-American” leaders who don’t look like the rank-and-file Blacks.

    Affirmative Action should already be too ludicrous to survive, yet there it is. Adding Fauxcahontas to it makes it even more stupid, but so what? Folks can’t do anything about. Whatever it adds to people’s contempt for the system is counterbalanced by making elite 0.4%-Cherokee Whites more nvested in preserving the thing for their spawn.

  321. @YetAnotherAnon

    For some reason, the original comment got crossed up with a different commenter named Nick. You can read Nick Patterson’s comments here:

    http://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Nick+Patterson

  322. @res

    One cannot prove a negative.

    The assertion has been made that Elizabeth Warren was hired because she claimed to be a woman of color, and would not have been hired otherwise.

    The evidence in favor? AFTER she was hired, Harvard listed her as a woman of color. That does NOT prove they knew about her claim beforehand, nor does it prove she was hired simply because she was a woman of color. In other words, no evidence at all. Just conjecture.

    The evidence against?
    People who were involved in her hiring have gone on record as saying she was hired because she was the best candidate. Considering this is a woman who later became a US Senator, it is extremely likely she was the best woman for the job.

    I’ve been through academic job interviews. In the sole exception of when a minority candidate is the ONLY possible candidate for a job, the hiring committee simply does not know ahead of time whether the candidate is a minority except from the candidate’s appearance.

    In other words, they saw a white woman, and almost certainly assumed her to be a white woman.

    What everyone is missing is the REAL story. At that time, universities were going all-out to try to increase the number of FEMALE faculty. In fact, studies have shown that white females are the principal recipients of affirmative action benefits.

    In other words, it was likely Harvard wanted to hire an extremely well qualified woman. It is possible they knew she claimed Native ancestry, it is also possible she told them after she was hired.

    We simply don’t know.

    There is also a high probability that she was the best candidate of any race or sex. People who become Senators are generally not slackers.

    • Replies: @academic gossip
  323. J.Ross says: • Website

    OT Look what Trump did now! The discourse, the discourse!

    The text may have been changed: a previous version may have blasphemously spelled out that some people (who are clearly Nazis) don’t think a boy’s halloween costume is a big deal.

  324. @AWM

    Cuz he’s a professor of population genetics at Cavalli-Sforza’s old school, Stanford?

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  325. How can one guy that Warren paid and who we can assume is a Democrat more accurate than 23andme or ancestry.com? Whatever their shortcomings are they still have a huge database.

  326. @Wency

    Any sort of generic Protestant American is almost certain to have at least one ancestor dating that far back.

    Now that would be a bottleneck!

    Everyone in the world has many, many ancestors dating that far back.

  327. Bubba says:
    @Thirdtwin

    I can’t wait for real American Indians to speak at Trump rallies night after night and publicly humiliate the MSM for not investigating her. This is quite an excrement show for Fauxcahontas and will only get far, far worse. The tax breaks for her brothers’ flip’n-sell real estate scam? Her Harvard appointment?

  328. @Hypnotoad666

    6. Harvard thought they might get a cut of her casino profits.

  329. @Le Autiste Corv

    Yeah, I get, Indian privileges get under your skin.

    It’s still shameful for Elizabeth Warren to lie so brazenly over her Indian connection, and that’s because it is shameful to lie brazenly.

  330. Redman says:
    @songbird

    She reminds me of my mom’s relatives who were all Ukrainian.

    Although, I took 23andMe and found out that I was an extremely high percentage Slovakian. More so than Ukrainian. Lot of mixing in the region I’m assuming.

    The Eastern European thing seems quite possible with Warren IMO.

  331. If I’m doing the arithmetic correctly, eight generations is 1/256th or 0.4% Native American.

    The average European supposedly has about 2% Neanderthal DNA. So is it fair to say she is more of a Neanderthal than an Indian?

  332. @Steve Sailer

    The comments by “Nick Patterson” do look very much like the sort of comments THE Nick Patterson would make.

    I tend to believe he is the real deal.

    There is a good way to check. If the real Nick Patterson and Steve have contact outside of this forum, and the real Nick Patterson says: “Yup, that’s me”.

    Assuming this is the REAL Nick Patterson, he has my respect for daring to post on a right-wing forum with your real name. That takes courage.

    I am a leftist myself, but I am not foolish enough to post here with my real name.

    • Agree: Tyrion 2
  333. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Hypnotoad666

    Why would geography matter?

  334. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Warren unfairly took the AA job of an actual Native American.

    I believe you are being too precise. She took the opportunity of someone who on the margin was more qualified than her, not just that of a Native American.

  335. @Hypnotoad666

    Secretary Hoskin has a point.

    DNA tests simply show she probably has ancestry in some Native group.

    It does NOT show WHICH group.

    The Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma has very strict criteria, which they use and very often misuse, but that is way off topic.

  336. J.Ross says: • Website
    @William Badwhite

    An anonymous employee told it to a Project Veritas type story, and the company has since vehemently denied it and said that the employee wasn’t with them any more.

  337. Bubba says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Wait a second – that makes both of us more of a monkey’s uncle that Fauxcahontas is Native American! 0.4% vs 0.09%

    Thanks!

  338. @sondjata

    Thanks, I didn’t see that the first time.

    Well, how sure can they be that their Mexican, Columbian and Peruvian injuns are pureblooded?

  339. @anonymous

    As one can see, the Native Americans had a stricter immigration policy than many people like to think. It was perfectly acceptable to capture anyone on tribal lands illegally, torture them for a while, and then burn them to death.

    Is there a problem with that? Indians realized that resources were finite. If someone is on your land without permission, that means they are probably up to no good. They are settling on your land, killing your deer, taking your timber and nuts and berries, etc. Kindness towards the illegal aliens could mean your own people starve to death.

    As for the kids, that varied. Many tribes would raise the children as their own. That is, the kid would be treated as a tribal member.

    https://www.legendsofamerica.com/na-cynthiaparker/

    One of my Cherokee ancestors was the Woman Chief, and she proclaimed that no woman would ever be burned at the stake ever again.

    Ward is credited with having secretly warned John Sevier and the Watauga Association of settlers of an impending attack by Cherokees in July 1776. She later used her prerogative as Beloved Woman to save a white woman captive from being burned at the stake; in return, her village of Chota was spared destruction by frontier militia that swept through Cherokee territory. Ward again gave warning of a Cherokee uprising in 1780 and attempted to prevent retaliation by militia forces. She made a notable plea for mutual friendship at the negotiation of the Treaty of Hopewell in 1785. A strong voice for the adoption of farming and dairying, Ward herself became the first Cherokee cattle owner. Late in life she urged the tribe to reject the rising pressure by white settlers to sell their remaining lands, but with little success. The sale of tribal lands north of the Hiwassee River in 1819 obliged her to move.

    https://www.britannica.com/biography/Nancy-Ward

    • Replies: @bomag
    , @William Badwhite
  340. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Can you be sure that anyone there isn’t the g2grandchild of some ambitious injun who moved off the reservation, married a European, but in the next generation one of the kids was a loser, moved back to the res and became the g1grandchild of the person in question?

    Or the descendant of a kidnapped European girl? Or of an injun woman who had an affair with some passing European?

  341. @Charles C. Mann

    I have seen a copy of the Treaty of Removal, signed by US government officials and members of the Treaty Party of the Cherokee,

    Incidentally, I had ancestors who signed the treaty on both the US and the Cherokee side.

    The American agent who signed the treaty was Agent Return Johnathan Meigs. His descendants are mostly Cherokee. Some were married to sons and daughters of prominent Cherokee chiefs.

  342. Balaji says:

    @Nick Patterson

    There are 3 billion base pairs in the human genome. Senator Warren has 12 million base pairs of Indian ancestry. This means that her Indian ancestry is 12 million/ 3 billion or 0.4%, with 99.6% ancestry being White. Rounding these numbers to the nearest whole number, which should be close enough for government work, her ancestry is 0% Indian and 100% White.

    If Prof. Bustamante tested Mr. George Zimmerman’s DNA, he would surely find more than 1% African ancestry and more that 1% Indian ancestry. We have been informed by reliable sources, that Mr. Zimmerman is a “White Hispanic”. By these standards, we would have to call Senator Warren “White White”.

  343. TheBoom says:
    @Nick

    The simplest conclusion is that Senator Warren has been telling the truth here.
    This issue should be dropped. A slim hope indeed.

    I come to this from a marketing, not a science background, so I see this very differently. While she may be technically semi correct, she was positioning herself as Naive American to leverage the benefits that provides. Being Naive American helps with affirmative action in school admittance and hiring at universities and in branding oneself for the media and politics. She is smart enough to know that she is stretching the truth to label herself as native American when she could not meet the requirements to join a tribe. So no casino royalties in her future. Anyone with BS filter should be able to see that she was just gaming the system, if they want to see it.

  344. @YetAnotherAnon

    Woodrow Wilson’s wife was a descendant of Pocahontas.

    http://www.firstladies.org/ancestral-wilson.aspx

    • Replies: @sayless
  345. @MEH 0910

    “I’m a 37-year-old data/analytics geek at a large bank.”

    What’s the point in being anonymous if you give totally accurate information? THE Nick Patterson is by definition a data/analytics geek – and I imagine Mr Reich’s databank is pretty large. Maybe he was 57 when he posted that – old enough to remember Oakley.

  346. @Nick

    As others have noted, a much bigger issue than whether Warren is 0.004 Indian is whether this 0.996 White woman advertised Indian identity for unwarranted advancement.

    And a much bigger issue than that is whether official AA should be tolerated at all, in any form.

    But most interesting to me is that Steve’s blog shows signs of becoming the arbiter of authoritative opinion on certain matters where genes and politics intersect. After 3 decades of under-recognition, that would be warranted indeed.

  347. Bubba says:
    @Jack D

    Wholeheartedly agree with your 1st 2 sentences Jack. And we had the best reason in history to take all the best oil in the world on 9/12/2001 in less than 2 weeks, but GWB miserably failed all American citizens (past and present) so he could keep his family and cronies outrageously wealthy and in control. Americans are still paying the price for his blinding idiocy. It’s dirt cheap to drill a well and find excellent quality oil in Saudi Arabia as opposed to the risk here in the States. We have plenty of oil and gas in the States, but it costs a hell of alot more to drill for it here than in a vast wasteland like Saudi Arabia.

    “Renewables” are an economic abysmal failure and will continue to be so until some smart physicist/chemist finds a way to store massive amounts of the energy produced, but even then the “environmentalists” will stridently oppose it. The only thing keeping “renewables” afloat are the huge tax breaks granted to companies using them (and con artists producing the garbage). Otherwise, it is easily the most expensive scam in world history.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  348. bomag says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    had an ancestor on the Dawes Roles… the number given was… anywhere from 1/32 to 1/512.

    In the context of what reasonable people consider a qualification for AA, that’s pathetic.

  349. @Barnard

    You’re correct. That would have been the smart way to do it, the statesmanlike way, er–stateswomanlike. But for some people, well represented among Harvard faculty, contesting every niggling little I-was-right point supersedes any bigger picture.

    Steve has presented us with the prospect of Rule By Aging Actresses. Elizabeth Warren now presents us with the prospect of Rule By Petty Know-It-Alls.

  350. @Almost Missouri

    Like counting lifeboats after the Titanic is already 2 days out of port.

  351. Jimi says:

    As a casino owner, Trump has long been chagrined by the Native Indian casino racket where people who are 99% white get certified as Indian and get special privileges to operate casinos.

    Here is a clip of Trump complaining about it 1993:

    Here is Trump speaking in a Congressional hearing in 1993 calling out Congress for giving Casino operating rights to white people who get certified to be Indian:

  352. @Steve Sailer

    Warren is a professor of law at Harvard. Should I believe her?

    • LOL: YetAnotherAnon
  353. @Anon

    When you become elderly, you have to keep your remarks on middle ground or you sound like a loon to everyone else.

    There’s a saying, “The older you are, the more like yourself you become.”

    • Replies: @Simply Simon
  354. @Mr. Anon

    Family legends usually have some truth in them, but over-exaggerated – my family had a tale of Scottish ancestry and gave a name prominent in 1880s society. The reality when I started digging was a Scotswoman of the same name, born 100 years earlier but quite obscure.

    So I can see how Senator Pocohontas could have a family tale of an Indian (feather) great-grandma when the reality was that the great-grandma had an Indian (feather) great-grandma.

    But then I don’t tell my employers I’m Scottish.

  355. Anonymous[147] • Disclaimer says:
    @Barnard

    I’m impressed by the whiney-white-lib own-goal she has pulled off; whereas your advice is of course smarter, that it was better handled by apophasis (“I really wish I hadn’t claimed to be Am-Indian, btw from this here test it turns out I am–whaddyaknow… But, again, so sorry for whatever privilege-collateral-damage this may have caused certain politically powerful Nations, etc.”)

    Note, it *WAS* better handled that way. Bwahahahahahah

  356. jJay says:

    From Steve:
    If I’m doing the arithmetic correctly, eight generations is 1/256th or 0.4% Native American.

    1/256th is probably noise. My 23andme DNA sequence test came back 1/512th Neanderthal. I believe that’s common for Europeans. East Asian DNA tests are often closer to 1/256th Neanderthal.

    To humor Derb for a moment: Long live the ice people alliance!

  357. @International Jew

    “Or the descendant of a kidnapped European girl?”

    In those halcyon days when the London Times wasn’t behind a paywall, I remember a story to the effect that around 1910 (or possibly during WWI) a couple of elderly Afghan ladies approached a British diplomat claiming to be survivors of the 1842 massacre who had as small children been spared. Never seen a reference to it since.

  358. @Steve Sailer

    The Old Man from Pawn Shop had Chinese eyes(you should see his Navy photo from 1957)….so does Renee Zellweger…if that’s the right spelling…….JFK also……….put the photos up….let’s see those canthic folds….

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  359. @YetAnotherAnon

    They could. Indeed, some news org may already have done so, but having found no real Indian ancestors within five generations, just buried it as being “inconclusive”.

    Everybody else doesn’t care about these minute technicalities and so doesn’t care if some 1/32 ancestor turns up or not (the best Bustamante could manage was a possible 1/256 ancestor). To normal people, the real question is, did an obvious Becky make a facially absurd claim to be Native American and use that claim to advance her career? The the answer is obviously yes.

  360. Anonymous[270] • Disclaimer says:

    Interestingly, a postdoc from Reich lab tweeted:
    “I am not convinced by the analysis of Elizabeth Warren’s DNA. In the PCA there are no Siberian groups, hence it is unclear whether the segment in question is Native American or Siberian. The European panel consists of British ancestry individuals (not representative of Europe).”

  361. Issac says:
    @reiner Tor

    Greg is not your ally, but he is worth reading.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  362. Our family, too, has echoes of our Indian heritage.

    For example, my older cousin frequently inflicted upon us kids what he referred to as an ‘Indian burn.’ And certainly none of would deny that it did, in fact, burn.

    Sitting cross-legged was known to us as ‘Indian style.’ We knew without asking what it meant to raise one’s palm and say ‘How.’

    As we grew older, some of us found we had a taste for the noxious weed we now call ‘tobacco.’ And others found that drink could lead to boisterous revelry.

    We knew that to give and then try to take back was an impulse we must fight. We knew the ancients’ word for corn was ‘maize.’

  363. @International Jew

    Where the heck are you going to find 37 full-blooded Injuns in 2018?? You’d be lucky to find even one.

    Hey, you just asked for 37 or even one. I suspect that there’s decent chance you could find that on Pine Ridge. Not certain, but if one were to look, that’s as good a place as any.

    There really wasn’t much mixing over the generations. The Sioux are pretty messed up and didn’t integrate well; that’s true even today. But, yeah, pure blood might be tough. But, again, if you’re going to find some purebreds, Pine Ridge might be your spot.

  364. Jefferson says:
    @Iberiano

    Why do Fake Native Americans ALWAYS claim Cherokee and never Navajo or Ho-Chunk for example.

    You know you are a Fake Native American when Cherokee is the only Native American tribe you can name.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
  365. @Nick Patterson

    As you can see, we’re a disbelieving and rude lot. It goes with the general skepticism that is the predominant style around here. Nice to have you chip in. We’re honored to have you here.

    • Agree: ic1000, MEH 0910
  366. @Old Palo Altan

    … although my own place is a free-standing villa with 14 foot ceilings, something delightful during the (fleeting) summers, but regrettable now, and for the next five or six months.

    You need adjustable ceilings.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
  367. Hank Yobo says:
    @Old Palo Altan

    “. . . at the paucity of that wretched little nation’s records.”

    French-Canadian vital records rival the best on this planet. Other ethnic groups kept equally good records with lively oral traditions as well. The beauty of genealogy is that some personal investment/engagement with an ancestral community is required since not everything about the human experience can be found online.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
  368. Prof. Patterson is an authority (perhaps the authority) on ancient admixture of populations and authored the seminal paper on productive ways of identifying it.

    http://www.genetics.org/content/192/3/1065

  369. @Charles C. Mann

    fortunately, it appears that she didn’t get her job because of it, but just listed herself as native on some forms after getting her job ( https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/&#8230;. )

    I saw that article and imagined it captioned on iSteve: “Well, That Settles It”.

    The Boston Globe is Warren’s propaganda organ, somewhere to the left of the Socialist Daily Worker. That piece on her totally meritocratic hiring and the current DNA one are their backscratching PR attempts to launder her record in expectation of a Hillary 2.0 run for the presidency. You can see the prominence they gave today’s trivia:

    The point was never to actually investigate the extent to which Warren’s diversity claims helped her, but to fulsomely quote her friends at Harvard Law School (who definitely are disinterested in the question of whether Warren becomes President) saying it could not possibly have made a difference. Sure, if they say so.

  370. @Le Autiste Corv

    I don’t see the GOP bowtie nerds or MAGA chuds being any help here. They’ve all become the tribal police, and are so angry that someone is stealing Native ancestry from the real victims, the true, and rightful beneficiaries of federal largesse.

    Not at all. They–we–are simply calling out the hypocrisy of a particular leftist, state-apparatchik, white woman who supports all this “diversity” and AA stuff, but then abuses it–and yes, steals a place from the people they claim to be helping–for their own personal advancement/status/greed.

  371. @War for Blair Mountain

    Rene Zellwegger is a little bit Lapp.

  372. Jefferson says:
    @S. Anonyia

    “Dude she has no tangible Native Ancestry. Her facial features could just as easily be Scandinavian.”

    Elizabeth Warren is so White she does not even look Mediterranean, let alone Meso-American.

  373. @Futurethirdworlder

    True, but they often didn’t do themselves any favors. Germans can be very arrogant, often with good reason, but that arrogance has led them to make some bad strategic decisions.

    But, yes, the rest of Europe has always been quick to gang up against the Germans. Then again, the Germans should have understood this and tried to work within that reality. The truth is that Germans just don’t play well with others. Forming alliances, wooing potential allies, maintaining current allies requires a delicate, sometimes playful touch that Germans generally lack. They’re engineers, not salespeople.

    You can still see that today. Merkel is completely tone-deaf to other Europeans’ opinions and feelings about importing millions of refugees. If Germany really wanted to lead a coalition of European nations, it would be far better at working with those foreign leaders. Instead, they just want to tell everyone what to do because Germans know that they are smarter and harder working than other Europeans so the rest of Europe should shut up and listen to their betters.

  374. It’s all fun and games until the music stops and the game’s over.

  375. @AnotherDad

    Don’t worry. With the way the transgender scene is going pretty soon transgendered women are going to be taking the female slots in Congress.

  376. Jack D says:
    @Charles C. Mann

    For an idiot, Trump is doing pretty good. You are not an idiot and yet you are not POTUS. Trump is an idiot and yet he is. Just think what he would be if he was not an idiot – perhaps ruler of the universe?

    This idiot Trump has one of his possible 2020 opponents on the defensive and talking about how being 1/1024th Indian makes you fully Indian, which defies most voter’s common sense and makes her seem like the reincarnation of the Clintons and just another scheming politician who is parsimonious with the truth. She might as well come out and say, “It all depends on what the meaning of “Indian” is.” How idiotic is that?

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @anon
  377. Alfa158 says:
    @Henry's Cat

    Steve is being tongue in cheek.
    The real Nick Patterson has two alternatives for his future:
    1. Let people know that he reads Unz.com which features race realism, pro-White advocacy, anti-war opinions and even the occasional bit of Holocaust skepticism.
    2. Continue to be employed by Harvard and MIT, bask in the acclamation of the academy, make a good living, get invited to learned conferences, collect lucrative consulting fees, get respectfully interviewed, and publish articles in distinguished scientific journals.
    Which one do you think he’d choose?

    • Replies: @Lurker
  378. @Jefferson

    Cherokee’s been cool for a long time.

  379. Jefferson says:
    @International Jew

    “Let’s see the numbers! What if Warren turns out to be 0.8% African? Would she dare go around saying she’s “black”? She’d get crucified if she did.”

    Elizabeth Warren does not have an Iberian (Spanish or Portuguese) last name or an Arabic last name, so 0.8% African is enough to qualify someone with a WASP last name like Elizabeth Warren as “Black”.

    If you have an Iberian last name like actress Michelle Rodriguez for example you can have as much as 23% African ancestry and still not be Black.

    So if Elizabeth Warren was 0.8% African she would be Blacker than 23% African Michelle Rodriguez, because the one drop rule is strictly a WASP invention.

  380. @Paleo Liberal

    @gcochran
    I have done so myself, so I agree.

    Thank you for outing yourself as dishonest. Anyone reading your posts carefully would have noticed the same, but some do not read carefully. For the latter, it is good to have you confirm that being honest, and being a liberal, are mutually exclusive.

  381. @Nick

    Without (hopefully) revealing too much about myself, I’m considered one of the world’s foremost geneticists. The amount of native blood Warren (allegedly) has in her (0.4%) is too little to be even considered relevant to her genetic makeup.

    Everyone in America has more orangutan in him than she has native ancestry.

  382. Cato says:

    You get exactly half of you DNA from your mother, and half from your father. Your father got half from his mother and half from his father. But the half of his DNA you father passed on to you, could be mostly from his mother, mostly from his father, or any combination thereof. As you go further back in the generations, the obscurity increases. Warren could have a great-great-great grandmother who was full-blooded Cherokee, and not have any DNA from her. Genealogy can prove her claim; DNA cannot.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  383. @Anon

    By Warren’s logic, if a white person is 1% black, should he get AA?

    This is the type of question Warren should be asked, relentlessly.

  384. @Nick

    Science, which presumably you believe you are engaged in, is pursuing the truth. But when you write:

    This issue should be dropped. A slim hope indeed.

    you are engaged in an agenda. You don’t care if Warren dishonestly used a fabrication to advance her career; you are a Democrat partisan trying to minimize the damage from her dishonesty. And, as a result, you have shown that you are not a scientist at all, you are just a miserable partisan stumping for another tyrant whose fondest dream is stomping on our face, forever.

    • Agree: International Jew
  385. anon[349] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lucas McCrudy

    But yes the media megaphone is shouting very loudly this morning: “Ha Ha! This proves Warren’s been right all along! Trump’s been caught lying again!”

    seems like this would demonstrate to the average person how dishonest the media is

    if they can’t see it now…

  386. @OP

    Tribes are starting to kick out individual members for not being pure enough

    That’s because of casino money.

  387. Jefferson says:
    @Lot

    “How would remote rural tribal land where 99% of the pop looks and identifies as full Indian”

    The more West of Mississippi you go the less White the people who claim to be Native American look.

    99% of self identified Native Americans who live West of the Mississippi do not look like Elizabeth Warren phenotype wise.

  388. anon[349] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    For an idiot, Trump is doing pretty good. You are not an idiot and yet you are not POTUS. Trump is an idiot and yet he is. Just think what he would be if he was not an idiot – perhaps ruler of the universe?

    the billionaire idiot somehow just keeps winning

  389. Lurker says:
    @Alfa158

    There’s no requirement for Nick to read Unz.com as such. He could have done a search and this post popped up and he responded.

  390. @gcochran

    Affirmative action is pure horseshit, and we should congratulate anyone who games it.

    The income tax is pure horseshit, and we should congratulate anyone who evades it. Drug laws are pure horseshit, and we should congratulate anyone who escapes them. Citizenship laws are pure horseshit, and we should congratulate anyone who invades us.

    • Replies: @bomag
  391. @Old Palo Altan

    Once upon a time Steve posted a picture of the Native American Youth Council, and while there were some fine looking squaws in the picture, most of them didn’t look to squaw-like.

  392. @Mike1

    1. The days of “trust me I’m a scientist” are over.

    True.

  393. OP says:
    @Old Palo Altan

    lol. well, it’s a good thing I don’t live in Mississippi. But the beauty of Native Americans varies from tribe and area. I think the ones here in the US were definitely better looking than the ones the Spanish had to deal with in Latin American, with a few exceptions.

  394. Dtbb says:
    @Le Autiste Corv

    He gambles at the casino and loses.

  395. Anon[143] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve, why don’t you ask Unz to fix the attribution of Nick’s comment, so it comes up on the Nick Patterson page? It’s a shame to have it fade into the ether by being mistakenly tagged to another account.

    There’s no requirement for Nick to read Unz.com as such. He could have done a search and this post popped up and he responded.

    I doubt this, since Google’s crawling and indexing of this site is not so good. I try to find recent stuff with Google, and I end up having to come and use Ron’s (quite good) search feature instead.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  396. Lurker says:
    @gregor

    Yes. If you check ‘Lurker’ most of them are me but some of the comments from the early days are at least one other person using the same handle.

  397. Jack D says:
    @Cato

    While it’s possible that you could somehow end up with no DNA from one particular line, as a statistical matter it’s highly unlikely – that would be like tossing a huge basket of coins in the air and not having even one land heads. This is why they were able to put a likely upper and lower range on her Indian DNA as being 1 ancestor 8 generations ago, +/- 2.

    So this means that some time around the Civil War, she had 256 ancestors. 255 of them were white and one was an Indian. Like this:

    ***************************************************************************
    ****************************************************#**********************
    ***************************************************************************
    *******************************

  398. I can’t recall if I had any distinct knowledge of Vice President Charles Curtis before spending some time reading around on him after seeing him mentioned in this post, but the very fact that he has no presence in my mind seems rather interesting, since I have found these issues interesting for some years.

    It looks like Steve and Razib Khan have both mentioned him multiple times on unz.com, but the truth seems far more intriguing than they have let on. It seems he was actually around 3/8 Indian, his mother having ancestors in multiple tribes, but it is not really clear what the facts are. It does seem that his first language was Kaw, and that his mother died early, but that later as a child he was sent to live with his maternal grandparents on a reservation. The reservation was attacked by the Comanches, and the young Curtis, called “Indian Charley”, road with a somewhat famous interpreter by horseback to Topeka to seek assistance from the governor. After this his Indian grandparents urged him to pursue schooling or he would end up like the other men on the reservation, and he seems to have taken this to heart. It seems that he eventually took a quite assimilationist stand regarding Indians, and was active in Indian affairs throughout his political career, even as he learned to play up or downplay his Indian heritage as needed in his political career. When he became Vice President, he was apparently keen to pose with Indian headresses, for instance.

    He reminds me in some ways of Clarence Thomas, whose first language was Gullah, but who is rejected by many as an inauthentic black for fully embracing the intellectual life of Western civilization. (Thomas seems more intellectual though, and apparently Curtis grew quite fond of his success as a career politician. He was the Republican Senate majority leader, and was regarded as rock solid Republican who was also capable of making deals, it seems.)

    Basically, Curtis seems like a guy who doesn’t fit the current narrative at all.

  399. @gcochran

    The fundament of cooperation is trust. As trust dissolves, cooperation craters.

  400. @Jack D

    Nice illustration — she’s One-Drop Warren, indeed.

  401. @Jack D

    So this means that some time around the Civil War, she had 256 ancestors.

    Quite a bit earlier than that, I think. Elizabeth Warren’s father was born in 1911 and her mother was born in 1912.

    I’m 60, and my paternal grandfather was born two years after the Civil War.

    John Tyler, the 10th US President, was born in 1790, George Washington’s first year as President, and two of his grandsons are still alive.

    http://mentalfloss.com/article/29842/president-john-tylers-grandsons-are-still-alive

    Even if we aggressively assume twenty years average per generation in the direct matrilineal line before her mother, and that the Indian ancestor was in the direct matrilineal line, Elizabeth Warren’s 6th-10th generation Indian ancestor likely lived in the early 1800s.

    It is more likely, though, that she lived even earlier than that.

  402. Jefferson says:
    @Steve Sailer

    “The best football player at my high school was this huge guy with a Slavic surname, but he had East Asian eyes.”

    Even some Eastern European Jews (Jason Cheffatz, Roseanne Barr) look like like their ancestors met Genghis Khan, so it’s not limited to just Eastern European Gentiles.

  403. @Charles Pewitt

    Whenever two former Confederates met anywhere, there was never but one topic of conversation, and where a dozen or more gathered together, it was a foregone conclusion that the war would be spiritedly refought. And always the word “if” had the most prominent part in the talk.

    “If England had recognized us —” “If Jeff Davis had commandeered all the cotton and gotten it to England before the blockade tightened —” “If Longstreet had obeyed orders at Gettysburg —” “If Jeb Stuart hadn’t been away on that raid when Marse Bob needed him —” “If we hadn’t lost Stonewall Jackson —” “If Vicksburg hadn’t fallen —” “If we could have held on another year —” And always: “If they hadn’t replaced Johnston with Hood —” or “If they’d put Hood in command at Dalton instead of Johnston —”

  404. Whenever two former Confederates met anywhere, there was never but one topic of conversation, and where a dozen or more gathered together, it was a foregone conclusion that the war would be spiritedly refought.

    Confederate veterans doing the rebel yell at a reunion:

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  405. J.Ross says: • Website

    This is good illustration of a hard to visualize problem:

  406. @Issac

    But Warren is an enemy of Greg. How stupid is it of him to find excuses for her?

    Leftists should be firmly held to leftist standards. Warren should be stoned to death for gaming affirmative action as a privileged white woman.

  407. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    Maybe the Native American genetic segments are shorter than genetic segments generally speaking.

  408. Dan Hayes says:
    @eah

    eah:

    Was this photoshopped or for real?

    Any which way it’s marvelously and preposterously GOOD.

    • Replies: @eah
  409. Polynikes says:
    @International Jew

    I love it. Sounds very Trump-like.

  410. @Harry Baldwin

    “Much less than 0.1%. It would be around .001.”

    Are you sure about that?

    I rounded … it’s 0.09765625%

  411. @Paleo Liberal

    The assertion has been made that Elizabeth Warren was hired because she claimed to be a woman of color, and would not have been hired otherwise.

    That’s not the assertion. There’s a wide range of benefits she could have obtained from fake Indian status that she claimed since 1986 or earlier. Hiring is only one of the things to look at.

    It can be promotion after the hiring or lots of other things big and small. It could be access to special pools of Career Development funds earmarked for minority faculty, or opportunities to serve on diversity committees and minority student mentoring programs and have that count as “service” for purposes of tenure, pay and promotion. Maybe being a minority did not affect her hiring but gave her more leverage in salary negotiations, or more offers from other schools (which are a big source of leverage for any professor). The schools that hired her didn’t just place her into one unchanging job and that’s that, there are many other decisions later on where being officially Diverse could have helped her, and at some of those points it probably did.

    You’re relying on the Boston Globe phony “investigation” intended to exculpate her. They didn’t ask too many questions of too many people because they preferred not to learn the answers.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  412. @academic gossip

    The Boston Globe claimed that every Harvard Law School insider they talked to said Warren wasn’t a diversity hire. But did the insiders mention anybody who, in contrast to Warren, was a diversity hire? Their investigation would be more persuasive if they quoted insiders saying: She’s nothing like a complete quota hire like Derrick Bell or Lani Guinier.

  413. @International Jew

    Back in 2009, one DNA test said Larry David was 3/8ths American Indian.

    My impression is that early genome tests had some sort of Jewish/Native American glitch.

  414. @Steve Sailer

    Even taking the story as completely correct, it only denies an influence on hiring. Nobody denied that Warren might have gotten other goodies out of self-reporting as an American Indian.

    It’s not clear if the Globe got in touch with Harvard Law School people for a story, or the reverse (or if Warren’s people played matchmaker between the two to set up just the right set of interviews). All the insiders they talked to could be Warren friends and supporters, or people recommended and coached by the friends and supporters. It’s not like anyone at HLS cares if Elizabeth Warren becomes president or stands to reap any benefit if that were to happen.

    There is no way for a story like this (in the Globe of all places) to be credible short of hacking into Warren’s personnel files and submitting them to third party review. And there’s no way to know the files were not scrubbed. The whole university wants her elected and they aren’t very interested in the Indian Question.

    • Agree: bomag
  415. bomag says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Indians realized that resources were finite. If someone is on your land without permission, that means they are probably up to no good. They are settling on your land, killing your deer, taking your timber and nuts and berries, etc. Kindness towards the illegal aliens could mean your own people starve to death.

    Well said. Reminds us that we live in a time of relative plenty.

    Is there a problem with that?

    Only as far as today’s zeitgeist is to judge the past by present standards. The past was less able to indulge homosexuality; the fecklessness of women; the maintenance cost of minorities; etc., but that gets little sympathy in today’s opinion.

  416. I am sure that the analysis of the sample was technically great, but isn’t there a major error in the sample itself? The claim was that Warren’s mother is part Native American. The fact that one of Elizabeth Warren’s ancestors was an NA hardly proves that claim, although it tends to make it more likely. The test should have been run on her mother, so I respectfully question the methodology.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  417. bomag says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    Why Lee thought he had to go for broke at Gettysburg is a mystery.

    I’ve heard that generals of the day were raised and trained in the tradition of grand armies and grand battles; thus Lee et al were inclined to fight that way.

    Guerrilla warfare would have fit Southern needs better.

    • Replies: @Simply Simon
  418. @Steve Sailer

    Insiders said steroids didnt help baseball players too. But expecting journalists to push back against the assertions of interviewees…

    • LOL: bomag
  419. bomag says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    _______ is pure horseshit, and we should…

    In a way, yes; but the point is that we shouldn’t have the thing in the first place.

  420. 1.
    There’s (of course) been criticism of my post on this blog.
    A couple of comments.
    I had 2 main points
    a) Bustamante is an entirely credible analyst.
    b) The data seems consistent with Warren having a 5th generation Native American ancestor.
    I thought that was a main issue. On other more nebulous claims like being “Cherokee” I have
    no professional view, though obviously if the standard is whether she is a citizen of the
    Cherokee Nation, the answer is no.

    2.
    There’s been some amazement that I read unz.com. I do.
    I read wsws. And I’ve read Mein Kampf and Sayyid Qutb.
    And I am n0t a White Nationalist, Trotskyist, Nazi or member of Al Qaeda

  421. @Steve Sailer

    So, are you saying this is a Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act case? Possibly, but remember, whether this woman becomes president may ride on that DNA, so there should be an exception. Also, they could triangulate this claim with samples of people “who believe they are alive.”
    The current sample is a Herring. What we need is a Reed.

  422. Precious says:
    @Tiny Duck

    BOOM goes the dynamite

    More like the soft hiss of a nearly silent fart.

  423. @Paleo Liberal

    Its time for you to SHHHHHH…she’s a lying sack of crap, quit splitting hairs.

    Between Fauxcahontas and Da Nang Dick Blumenthal, you have provided El Trumpo with plenty of great twitter ammo. Just be quiet and take it like a man.

  424. @YetAnotherAnon

    The Mormons, I’m told, have a very extensive archive, open to the public. The reason they keep it is to help them vicarious baptize the dead.

  425. I think Pocahontas is going to regret that she didn’t just let the matter drop:

  426. It was a good joke to imagine her biography, “Dreams of my Great-Great-Great-Grandfather”.

    “Dreams of my Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Grandfather” is too long even to be a joke.

  427. @PiltdownMan

    Fascinating.
    Hollywood usually gets the Yell wrong; they think it’s something like “Yeh-HOO!” This sounds more Indian than Elizabeth Warren’s DNA.

    OTOH, the older Southern accents had traces of British vowels, which was exactly what GWTW speech coaches were shooting for.

  428. sayless says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Nancy Reagan was also descended from Pocahantas. There is a society of descendants.

  429. We need to repeat over and over again the exact quote from Trump: ““I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian”. He did not say “if you have any Native American ancestry whatsoever.” That would not be enough to justify being included as a Native American faculty member at UPenn and Harvard, as Warren was. She has approx 1/256 Native American ancestry but she is definitely not an Indian. That has now been proven, and so she loses the bet.

    The mainstream media wants to spin it falsely that Trump lost the bet, when in fact he won. Warren is not an Indian, and her being listed so on the faculty register was a falsity.

  430. @Nick Patterson

    We welcome you here wholeheartedly. I promise to read any of your comments with due care. As Sailer said, “Respect”, particularly for your work with David Reich. I cannot comment on the other components of your quite spectacular career.

  431. D. K. says:
    @Nick Patterson

    You really do need to keep better abreast of things in the real world, Nick. Your public denial that you are a White Nationalist or a Nazi is utterly incompetent, immaterial, and irrelevant; you could deny those two particular characterizations under oath, in a court of law, and it still would be considered utterly incompetent, immaterial, and irrelevant. Only the ruling class may grant you absolution of a charge of being a White Nationalist or a Nazi (along with any charge of being a White Supremacist, a [run-of-the-mill] racist, a xenophobe, an anti-Semite, a neo-Nazi, a fascist, a neo-fascist, a reactionary, a neo-reactionary, a misogynist, an homophobe, a transphobe, a speciesist, an ableist, a looksist, an ageist, or just an all-around-bad-White bigot); that authority has been delegated by the ruling class to its ideological-enforcement wing, including well-paying nonprofit sinecures, such as those at the ADL and the $PLC, and to the ruling class’ indoctrination-and-propaganda wing, including your own hallowed halls of academia and, of course, the corporate mass media. If an apparatchik from one of those organizations or institutions declares you to be a White Nationalist or a Nazi, Nick, based upon your public admission of reading The Unz Review (or, indeed, based upon literally no proffered evidence whatsoever!), then you are, ipso facto, a White Nationalist or a Nazi (or, in most cases, both), and you have no right of appeal of that judgment from on high. What planet is it that you have been living on, these passed few decades, anyway?!?

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Desiderius
  432. @AnotherDad

    Exactly what I say to myself every year about now.

    But houses built in 1880 just don’t have them.

  433. @Hank Yobo

    Agreed. Catholics need these records for sacramental purposes.

    And I fully agree with you that “personal investment/engagement … is required”. I’ve been doing it all my life. I once stayed in a hotel in Maarssen (near Utrecht) and asked the owner of the fine 18th century town house if he knew where “huis Hoorn-Oord” might be, where an ancestor had lived and died. He didn’t, but rang up the local historian. Putting down the ‘phone with a smile he said: “This is it!”
    So I know about personal research, and revel in it.

    It’s just that I’m a bit too old now to trek over to Canada for a few not terribly exciting cousins who lived in a not terribly exciting country.

    • Replies: @Hank Yobo
  434. @Le Autiste Corv

    Thank you!

    My favourite president.

    • Replies: @Le Autiste Corv
  435. @BB753

    A 5th generation “Cherokee” ancestor might easily be 50% White.

    I’m trying to follow your math. I am the 3rd generation from my grandparents. For the sake of argument, one is a Cherokee. Unless my parents were brother and sister, how would I, a third generation be 50% Cherokee?

    • Replies: @Peter Johnson
  436. @Sarah Toga

    A delight, in so many ways.

    Thanks.

  437. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Nick Patterson

    Reading Qutb wouldn’t make you al-Qaeda, it’d make you Ikhwan. To be al-Qaeda you have to be a Yalie.

  438. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Anon

    Google is gratuitously bad and I’m not just saying that for political reasons. They fix results all the time. There used to be a site called Screwgle that cataloged truly remarkable Google mistakes (in one case they reversed the position of a Vietnam war vet regarding the war) but it went the way of critical news about Israel. Use StartPage and MetaCrawler for searching and Yandex for images.

  439. Hank Yobo says:
    @Old Palo Altan

    Canada may not be a “terribly exciting country” but then who needs the constant drama of world power-politics to enhance the quality of one’s life? After all, “peace, order, and good government” is such a dreary motto to live by. Low crime, a high standard of living, abundant resources, a relatively civil and educated populace, well-respected on the international stage (ask American backpackers whose flag to display on their gear), a decent universal health care system, lots of wide open spaces and fresh air. Oh yah, and one of the few–if not the only–entity to repel American invaders as the need arose. Move along. Nothing to see. Not much of consequence going on up there.

  440. MarcB. says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Whites will shrink to such a small portion of the population that even their labors and good citizenship will get overwhelmed by the parasitic majority. (Granted, this can take a long time. Look at South Africa.

    The election of President Trump was the clarion call to the Western World to finally start acting in our own interest, even if it meant being called racists. This change in mindset is far more important than whatever he accomplishes while in office. And when the productive decide to no longer share resources with those who despise them yet depend on to provide essential services, the whole thing collapses. The SJW/Antifa mania is the last blast of a dying breed who will eventually realize how bad they’ve been conned and get onboard with the winning side.

  441. @D. K.

    Most who reach the top of a field do so by bottoming out in many others. A popular choice is social savvy. SJWism is a virus that feeds on that choice.

    If we want the Nick Pattersons of the world to maintain the freedom to keep achieving remarkable things in his chosen field(s) we’ve got to (a) defend him from the depredations of the SJWs and (b) pay less than no attention to the nonsense he comes up with outside those fields.

  442. @bomag

    “Guerrilla warfare would have fit Southern needs better.”
    I agree totally. Such raids into the homes and villages of citizens in Illinois, Indiana, Ohio and Pennsylvania, effectively carried out may well have demoralized the North. Effectively carried out would have meant the destruction of homes and factories, the killing of anyone who got in the way. I am not sure at the early stages of the war if Lee and his generals were willing to do that. But as we found out later General Sherman had no compunction in laying waste to the South as he marched through Georgia,

  443. @Harry Baldwin

    I suppose at 90 I could classify myself as “elderly” and yes in my rare postings on the Unz site I do tend to keep my remarks hopefully on middle ground. But as for “The older you are, the more like yourself you become,” has left me confused. I always thought I was the same as I always was.

  444. @AnotherDad

    Those people they are helping, or a large number of individuals from those communities, are often just as corrupt or willing to accept federal largess.

  445. @Old Palo Altan

    He was an idiot, and bears the blame for much of what followed him. This country is going to be destroyed because of myopically optimistic, action-driven, extroverted jack….ses like Teddy.

    How do you think he would have come down on the Saddam question or Vietnam? Be honest, like an indigenous North American.

  446. @Curmudgeon

    The fifth generation “Cherokee” had a white parent and a 100% Cherokee parent and so was himself/herself actually only (1/2)^1 Native American. This makes the 5th generation person (1/2)^6 Native American rather than (1/2)^5 Native American.

  447. eah says:
    @Dan Hayes

    Definitely not photoshopped — “LOL”

    Is he wrong? #Horseface

    • LOL: Dan Hayes
  448. @International Jew

    Where’s her traditional recipe?

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  449. @adreadline

    Warren has 12 times more Native American blood than a white person from Great Britain and 10 times more than a white person from Utah, the report found

    12 x 0 = 0.

    10 x 0 = 0.

    So if the white person from Great Britain and the white person from Utah have zero Native American blood, then Elizabeth Warren could have 10 or 12 or 100 times more Native American blood–and still have zero.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  450. @Rosamond Vincy

    White people from Utah (i.e., mostly Mormons) have been a favorite U.S. proxy for northwestern Europeans going back to the HapMap about 15 years ago. Lots of Mormons were recruited from Europe in the mid-19th Century (e.g., the Romney ancestor was some kind of cousin of the fine English painter named Romney).

    I would imagine that white people in Warren’s Oklahoma frequently have some Indian blood. E.g., NFL quarterback Sam Bradford, a Heisman winner at the U. of Oklahoma, is said to be 1/16th Cherokee and looks about 1/8th or 1/4th.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  451. anonymous[404] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Steve Sailer

    I read somewhere that Genghis Khan was a redhead, likely a Celt. Portrayals were made after he died, but the only contemporary description has him a redhead.

    So slanty eyes have nothing to do with him.

  452. MEH 0910 says:

    Possibly tongue-in-cheek:

    Canned crab? Elizabeth Warren is unfit to lead.
    By Dana Milbank
    October 16
    ……

    Ouch. But I can understand why the Cherokees — and indeed all people of good taste — might wish to disavow Warren: It’s the crab mayonnaise.

    Among the many unfortunate results of Warren’s recent DNA test suggesting she’s somewhere between 1/64th and 1/1,024th Native American by ethnicity: It inevitably draws attention to her contribution to the ’80s cookbook, “Pow Wow Chow: A Collection of Recipes from Families of the Five Civilized Tribes.” Under “Elizabeth Warren, Cherokee,” it lists five recipes, three of which were apparently cribbed from the New York Times and Better Homes and Gardens.

    Worse, one of the recipes she submitted: “Crab with Tomato Mayonnaise Dressing.” A traditional Cherokee dish with mayonnaise, a 19th-century condiment imported by settlers? A crab dish from landlocked Oklahoma? This can mean only one thing: canned crab.

    Warren is unfit to lead.

  453. @Steve Sailer

    It’s more fun my way. And mathematically correct.

  454. @anonymous

    Ramses II was also said to be a redhead.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  455. @anonymous

    Red hair, dunno. But in no way a Celt. Maybe you’re thinking of Atilla the Hun, who was also not a Celt but at least lived in a time when there were still Celts in central Europe.

  456. @The preferred nomenclature is...

    Would Neanderthal ancestry count towards AA benefits?

    Absolutely not. The people with the most Neanderthal in them are Europeans.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  457. @International Jew

    Florentines have the most, from what I’ve read.

  458. @countenance

    I guess this means I’m descended from Edward I, Braveheart’s villain, as well. And I thought my ancestors fought with William Wallace and Robert Bruce.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  459. @David In TN

    Bummer, dude. I am sure you were looking forward to painting your face purple.

    But look at it this way – you can throw your son’s gay boyfriend out the window and blame it on your DNA!

  460. @Rosamond Vincy

    I’ve heard the same (red hair) asserted for Alexander the Great and Mohammed.

    I don’t know of any physical evidence one way or the other for any of these people.

    Or maybe one of The Protocols of the Elders of Ginger is to retroactively assert red hair for history’s great leaders?

  461. @Rosamond Vincy

    She can just recycle the crab mayonnaise one.

  462. @Nick Patterson

    I had 2 main points
    a) Bustamante is an entirely credible analyst.
    b) The data seems consistent with Warren having a 5th generation Native American ancestor.
    I thought that was a main issue. On other more nebulous claims like being “Cherokee”

    OK, fair enough, but you have it backwards. Warren’s claim to be Cherokee was the one non-nebulous claim. She either is or is not a member of the Cherokee tribe. The tribe said she is not. Therefore she is lying.

    Bustamente’s credibility and the data’s consistency with 5th generation ancestry OTOH are partly subjective and therefore nebulous.

  463. anon[355] • Disclaimer says:

    Anybody who thinks this white woman is an “Indian” is not playing with a full deck. Whatever happened to just using your good old fashioned common sense?

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