The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
SAT Scandal: The Global Tong War Over Test Scores
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New Reply
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

From Reuters:

Exclusive: FBI raids home of ex-College Board official in probe of SAT leak

Federal agents searched the home of a former employee-turned-outspoken critic of the College Board, the standardized testing giant, as part of an investigation into the breach of hundreds of questions from the SAT college entrance exam.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation seized computers and other material on Friday from Manuel Alfaro, who left his job as executive director of assessment design and development at the College Board in February 2015. The FBI is investigating alleged computer intrusion and theft against an unidentified “victim corporation” involving “confidential or proprietary information,” including tests, test forms and internal emails, according to a search warrant issued in the case.

Alfaro had contacted officials of seven state governments in recent months, accusing the College Board of making false claims about its tests when bidding for public contracts with the states. The College Board, he alleged, misled the states about the process it used to create questions for the new version of the SAT, resulting in an inferior exam. He also aired those allegations publicly, largely through postings on his LinkedIn account.

Lawyers for Alfaro could not be reached for comment. An FBI official confirmed that agents were present at Alfaro’s home in Maryland but declined to elaborate.

College Board spokesman Zach Goldberg said the leak of test questions constituted a crime. “We are pleased that this crime is being pursued aggressively,” he said. He dismissed Alfaro’s criticisms of the SAT test-making process as “patently false.”

The FBI raid comes after Reuters reported earlier this month (reut.rs/2b3gtyE) that the news agency had obtained about 400 unpublished questions from the newly redesigned SAT exam, which debuted in March. Some experts said the leak constituted one of the most serious breaches of security ever to come to light in the standardized testing industry.

Reuters reported previously that the SAT (reut.rs/1RL4ZSI) and its rival, the ACT, (reut.rs/2akY3uf) are being systematically gamed by test-prep operators in Asia. The SAT has proved particularly vulnerable to cheating because of its practice of reusing test questions. Test-preparation companies obtain previously administered questions that are scheduled for reuse and feed those questions to students, who can score higher by practicing on the exam items before the test.

One of my concerns over the last decade is that the high end testing systems in the U.S. are falling apart under the onslaught of millions of Tiger Mothers and their progeny.

I’ve heard that the Emperor of China made high stakes testing for mandarin jobs a necessity in 605 AD, which suggests that the Chinese became obsessed with gaming the test prep system around 606 AD. But Americans haven’t really faced up to the implications of globalization of our elite institutions.

The SAT and ACT are taken by millions of students a year and are major criteria used by U.S. colleges in selecting applicants. The cheating rings and leaks, testing experts say, call into question the fairness and validity of the standardized exams.

Alfaro, who oversaw the development of parts of the new SAT, jolted the staid world of standardized testing in May with a barrage of criticism of the College Board.

In a series of posts on LinkedIn and Twitter, he charged the New York-based not-for-profit with skipping a crucial step in the test development process, which he says resulted in a lower-quality exam. He also alleged in a June 1 post that the shortcut may fail to comply with federal guidance on peer review for state testing programs. …

A member of Congress, meanwhile, has asked federal regulators to look into Alfaro’s allegations. U.S. Sen. Barbara Mikulski, a Democrat from Maryland, has “been in touch with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau,” according to a July 28 letter she wrote to Alfaro.

The College Board, which is the main client of the Educational Testing Service’s SAT, is under the control of David Coleman, formerly chief author of the Common Core. Coleman is by no means stupid, but it’s concerning that America has by default seem to have bet the country on him.

Asked Friday about Alfaro’s criticisms of the new exam, College Board spokesman Goldberg said: “Mr. Alfaro does not speak with any authority about our tests. With the new SAT, we have made an unprecedented commitment to transparency and have published our test specifications, which include the test development process. Any claims that counter the published information are patently false.”

The document cited by Goldberg contains a nine-step process for developing the new SAT and ensuring that exams contain fair and valid questions. It’s the fourth of those steps that Alfaro says the College Board routinely skipped, according to his posts on LinkedIn. That step, known as “external content & fairness reviews prior to pretesting,” relates to the checks that new questions are supposed to undergo before they are included on an actual test.

I’m guessing that this is the step where ethnic activists get paid to complain about regatta-type questions, but Alfaro feels like Coleman didn’t pay up.

According to the College Board document, newly written SAT questions are scrutinized by external, independent reviewers, who look for mistakes and potential bias. After that initial review, the questions are field tested on actual test-takers in an unscored section of a regular SAT exam.

The field testing helps determine whether questions are statistically valid and whether they should be included on a future, scored portion of the exam. After the field test, questions once again go through external reviews before they’re put on a live, scored section of the test.

The external reviews before field testing didn’t always happen, Alfaro alleged.

“The Content Advisory Committee reviewed the items for the first time, not before they were pretested, but after the items were assembled into operational SAT forms,” he wrote in a May 27 post on LinkedIn. In a June 9 post, he added: “We first implemented Step 4 in August of 2014, after thousands of items had already been developed and pretested without this crucial step.”

So I don’t really know what’s going on with the SAT, but this scandal underlines something I’ve been saying for awhile: that American elites need to focus on reforming testing so it isn’t gamed by new forces that a dynamic but naive mid-Century WASP like James Bryant Conant couldn’t have anticipated.

Conant, a chemist, became president of Harvard at age 40 in 1933 and soon plunged into a career of decision-making at the highest levels of importance. Most famously or notoriously, he was central to Harry Truman’s decision to drop the Bomb on Hiroshima. After 20 years at Harvard, Conant became the first ambassador to West Germany and negotiated with Adenauer West Germany rearming and joining NATO.

Were those good decisions? Well, we can safely say that like most of the things Conant was involved in, it was an important decision. Conant was the kind of guy that Presidents of the United States turned to. When the buck stopped here, it was usually after Conant had had his say.

One of the many important decisions Conant made was Harvard starting to use the SAT in 1934 and his sponsoring the creation of the ETS to continue to update it in 1948.

Conant was the son of a skilled tradesman in Dorchester, MA and he resented the Boston Brahmins who had run Harvard forever. For example, from 1869 to 1933, the presidents of Harvard had been named Eliot and Lowell.

One obvious possibility was for Harvard to admit more Jews, which Conant did to some extent. But he was more excited about the notion that there was a Jeffersonian natural aristocracy out there scattered about the hinterlands that could be identified and nurtured through systematic testing.

Nicholas Lemann, author of the 1995 book The Big Test, remarked to PBS in the early 2000s:

First of all, Conant himself, although he was never a card-carrying member of the eugenics movement, clearly believed in the basic theory that intelligence is an innate and sort of biological quality and that it’s the most important human quality. So that’s the starting point. But on a more practical level, when he’s starting the system in the 1930s and 40s, American education is highly various–it’s a big country, you know, air travel and long distance telephony are in their infancy. Schools are just very different from place to place. There’s no national curriculum. So you need a way to perform a straight-up comparison of high school students who have been exposed to very different kinds of education. And to Conant the IQ test or aptitude test is the best way to do that. He was quite insistent on that.

Conant had this kind of idealistic belief in creating a classless society. He was very, very tied to the idea of not favoring people who had been born into a privileged class, which is highly ironic today. So he thought that if you had tests that were achievement tests, or tests of mastery of the high school curriculum, it would be unfair to poor kids because they wouldn’t have gone to good high schools. Anything that would help the rich kids who had been to fancy prep schools in the East Conant was against. So in his meetings with Chauncey about the SAT he would say over and over again, according to Chauncey, “Now are you sure this isn’t an achievement test? Are you sure this is a pure aptitude test, pure intelligence? That’s what I want to measure, because that is the way I think we can give poor boys the best chance and take away the advantage of rich boys.”

What Conant wanted was to take an old elite and substitute for it a new elite. …

Conant believed that a narrow constricted group of wealthy descendents of the early settlers of America – people born into money, privately educated, often in New England boarding schools, usually Episcopalian – had formed a kind of club. They weren’t especially able, to Conant’s mind, and they kind of controlled everything, they had a grip on everything. And they had built a system in which the word meritocracy wasn’t around, but they built a sort of fake meritocracy in which the rules were rigged so only they could win.

Conant’s primary goal, as far as domestic life in America, was to break the hold of this old elite and put in its place, a new elite that would be made up of people from a national group, people from all over the country, people selected on pure intelligence, not on their background. These would be people who he assumed would have come from very modest backgrounds and would have gone to public school rather than private school–people who would be more liberal, ideologically, than the predecessor group.

He wanted to break the old group’s hold, create the new group, and put them in charge of the country. I mean, it’s astonishingly ambitious. …

Well, the fundamental irony of the American meritocracy, the system that Conant set up, is this: people will start madly manipulating the system to their favor and to the favor of their children. And the people who have more money and more power and more sophistication will be able to manipulate it more successfully. So, the sort of the tragedy of Conant’s system is that some of his ideas just seem laughable today. The idea that America would become a classless society through the use of these tests. The idea that the people who score high on these tests would care only about public service and the good of the country and would be indifferent to money and power. The idea that they would be admired by ordinary people in the country. The idea that they would turn social arrangements completely upside down in the country. The idea that they would be enemies of privilege–they wouldn’t want to privilege themselves above others, they would want to wipe out all privilege in America.

I mean, these ideas are appealing but today they just sound impossibly naïve. You can’t set up a system to distribute rank and privilege and assume it won’t be used for that purpose by people and that people won’t eventually figure out how to game the system and use it to pass on advantage. Every conceivable meritocracy, degrades over time into an aristocracy. It just has to happen that way. …

The first group to use this meritocratic system to make it were the Jews. And Jews were rising very fast through the system, particularly in the immediate post-World War II decades.

And then starting around 1980, the action shifted, and the rising group that was outperforming where they were in the society tended to be Asian-Americans–in particular, Chinese-Americans. Now why does that happen? There’s a whole lot of reasons. One reason is just people are hungry and motivated, and they see this as an arena of opportunity.

But there’s a more particular reason which applies in different ways both to Jews and to Asians, which is, given what the system is, given how the system defines merit, it basically defines merit as studiousness, and ability to get good grades in school. And it tremendously glorifies book learning and study. In both Jews and Asians, you have people who come from long cultural traditions that are already in that place that American society got to in the late twentieth century…Within the ethnic culture there’s a tremendous value put on studying, learning, scholarship, in the case of Asian-Americans, specifically on testing.

For well over a thousand years, there’s been in various Asian countries starting with China, systems of distributing prestige and rewards on the basis of how you do on exams. So this stuff is really rooted culturally, and people who grow up in the culture tend to be unusually well-equipped to sort of deal with the American meritocracy.

So, my point is that if you go back 70 or 80 years, the people worried about high stakes testing were serious superstars like Conant, but in recent decades they’ve been West Virginia politicians and McKinsey consultants. For a long time, that wasn’t a problem because we actually had a pretty good system set up by guys like Conant that Americans didn’t much abuse.

But globalization should have wiped out that confidence. This is global tong war over test scores.

But Americans have yet to figure out what’s going on. That would be racist.

 
Hide 167 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. Universities like foreign students because they pay more money. It’s not about PC, it’s about greed. That’s why universities aren’t crazy about Asian-American students, but love overseas Asian students.

    A lot of the destruction to our country comes not from the PC left, but from pro-business centrists and conservatives. The PC left might scream like fairies about microagressions and other such nonsense, but they typically aren’t agitating much about bringing in foreign students from China, Taiwan, and India. The centrist/conservative university leadership long ago realized how lucrative foreigners can be, so they’ve done a lot to bring more here. They’ve also pushed to give worker visas to foreign-student graduates of American univerisites.

    Univerisities tend to be run by competent executives who want to maximize revenue. Not Marxists or feminists.

    By the way, a lot of these supposedly liberal univerisites oppose allowing their lowly paid adjunct professors to unionize.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    You are right in what you say. If colleges are not run on a break even or better basis, then they go out of business completely. On the occasions when leftists have failed to take notice of this, the college indeed shuts its doors, and the ones that are in operation now are by definition those who have survived the Darwinian struggle.

    2nd, even profit making businesses must operate under the ground rules laid down by leftists and this leads to distorted behavior. We see this for example with VW, where American leftist environmentalists raise the emission standards for diesels so high that VW felt the only way out for them to sell diesel economy cars in America was to cheat.

    So, why is it that modern American college administrators feel this need to bring in full paying Asian students, when decades ago they didn't? On one side you have cost pressure - faculty costs haven't gone up that much but administration has grown tremendously - you have affirmative action officers, Title IX coordinators, etc. On the other side, you have all these AA students on scholarships.
    , @TheJester
    There is another factor in play. The executives who run universities (if you want to call them that) have been able to create the illusion that a university is like a commercial corporation. It has revenue, profits, products, and customers. The executives, then, want to be paid like the officers of major corporations. This was distinctly different when I was at the university in the 1960s. Tuition was low ... and university professors and administrators consciously traded an exceptional lifestyle for monetary gain. Most of my professors lived in very modest middle-class homes.

    Then things changed. Students no longer had to work their way through school ... nor could they. With the advent of, first, liberal government loans and, then, collateral-free commercial loans to students, finding money for a university degree was no longer a problem. At that point, the university administrators (recast as corporate executives) realized they could hike and re-hike tuition and fees into the stratosphere to pay themselves corporate wages ... because the universities' customers (students) could always borrow more money to cover the rising cost of tuition and fees. Soon, the professors got into the game. Now, obscenely-paid university executives and professors constitute an economic elite living in clusters of mansions in gated communities surrounding their universities.

    In short, the university system today does not educate students as its first order of business. It's fairer to say that "its business is business". It financially exploits students ... charging whatever the market will bear.

    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    I've lived in and around Harvard Square most of my adult life since the late 1970s. When I first arrived on the scene the Square was a vibrant place, full of quirky, independent and locally owned bookstores, specialty item stores, coffeehouses, restaurants, movie houses, and other such businesses, all catering to the needs of students. Street musicians were to be found on every corner, particularly on the weekends. The students that frequented the Square were mostly native-born Americans with a significant admix of foreign students, although these were more concentrated in the older, grad student ages.

    Now wealthy foreigners of college age are the predominant inhabitants of the square. They are spoiled rotten. The local businesses with their affordable wares have been replaced by upscale and very expensive chains. The street musicians are still there but matched in numbers by "homeless" derelicts who foul the streets with their effluvia and occasionally accost passersby in a variety of unpleasant ways. The place has become an uninviting dump, a somewhat sanitized version of an Asian urban center. Native-born students have migrated to new versions of the old Harvard Square, e.g., Davis Square.

    Meanwhile, Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, Northeastern, etc., are making out like bandits off the loot they extract from their new international students and their uber-wealthy, filthy rich parents.
    , @ic1000
    Steve, IIRC one of the Presidential candidates recently warned America about the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad ideas and people of this thing that she called the alt-right.

    Why is it that I keep discovering insightful essays on various current events themes (the SAT, Olympic Track & Field, immigration) at iSteve, instead of in the NYT Magazine, etc.?

    Icing on the cake are the informed commenters, in this case including JohnnyWalker123, Jack D, SomethingToSay, Jus' Sayin', Education Realist.

    New readers alerted by that candidate to this dire Phantom Menace should be encouraged to dip into posts like this one. Maybe they'll be as puzzled as I am.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  2. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Lemann says, “So, the sort of the tragedy of Conant’s system is that some of his ideas just seem laughable today. The idea that America would become a classless society through the use of these tests. The idea that the people who score high on these tests would care only about public service and the good of the country and would be indifferent to money and power. The idea that they would be admired by ordinary people in the country. The idea that they would turn social arrangements completely upside down in the country. The idea that they would be enemies of privilege–they wouldn’t want to privilege themselves above others, they would want to wipe out all privilege in America.

    I mean, these ideas are appealing but today they just sound impossibly naïve.”

    But, here Lemann is only half right.

    The system did indeed work as planned–for chemists and the like. Scientists are neither particularly well paid by Wall Street standards, nor are they power hungry grifters like some politicians with whom we are currently dealing. Scientists are selected by merit and the tests do a good job of winnowing out the less gifted. They aren’t primarily motivated by greed and do see themselves as idealistically helping mankind. They would be more widely admired but are upstaged by the more needy, greedy and less talented.

    So, Lemann got some right, some wrong.

    Read More
    • Replies: @artichoke
    Yeah, we dramatically underpay scientists and engineers. My whole damn engineering career, and after I got out, there was one program after another to address the "engineering shortage". Hell pay us better and there will be enough. There were also special tax laws set up so that I could not benefit as an independent contractor the same as most others, including doctors and lawyers, could.

    Science and engineering are a way into the middle class, but only that. There are some hot areas, but usually the cartel is paying you only a little more than someone with an IQ that is 25 points or more lower.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  3. ……systems of distributing prestige and rewards on the basis of how you do on exams.

    Where’s the merit in that?

    At least the “legacy”system of the old Ivies rewarded the achievements, i.e., merit, of the boy’s father and grandfather. The exam system is just the lucky sperm club.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  4. The current aptitude test based college admissions system is likely better than any conceivable thing that could replace it.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  5. As a quondam Ivy Leaguer and coxswain, I had to look at the “regatta” link. For many years I though “meh” was a letter in the Armenian alphabet; it is not; I’ll say it anyway. Words like “elitist” and “privileged” just lose me. I translate “privileged” as “in possession of an EBT card.” Still, it is well to remember that this controversy over “biased” SAT questions existed. I expect that even if such bias were eliminated, it wouldn’t change anything. Complaining of an unfair cultural slant in anything is like saying it is impossible to learn a foreign language because foreigners have a different word for everything. Yeah. They do. So what. People who gripe in this manner will always find an excuse not to learn new things.

    As for Asians not being repelled by the fact that the SAT is not in their language but considering this just a trivial impediment to the overall mission of acing it, I doubt they really get much for their success. The ones who were assigned to my course as teaching assistants – to the smirking irritation of my students – were never really going to compete with Americans for anything. They were simply unintelligible, plus no corporation would ever get brownie points for hiring them as affirmative-action hood ornaments.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  6. the Chinese became obsessed with gaming the test prep system around 606 AD

    And the Chinese imperial government,which administered the test, began taking countermeasures around 607.

    First of all, the test required years of prep to memorize hundreds of classical works, which you were expected to quote from in your essay. There was no easy way to “cram”.

    Guards verified a student’s identity and searched for hidden printed materials. Each test taker was isolated in a tiny cubicle for 3 days . If a candidate died, officials wrapped his body in a straw mat and tossed it over the high walls that ringed the compound.

    Talk about your high stakes test….

    Candidates were identified by number and in order to prevent the scorers from recognizing the handwriting of the test takers, the tests were recopied by scribes.

    And so on. Which leads me to believe that instead of hiring Manuel Alfaro, Coleman should have looked further east for an expert on test security.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome


    Ancient Chinese 'cheat sheets' discovered
    ...
    One of the texts, discovered in Qingdao, is thought to be the smallest book ever found in Eastern China. The 160 page text is two-and-a-half inches long and under two inches wide and can fit into a matchbox. It contains 140,000 characters drawn from exam texts.

    The other book, found on the southern island of Hainan, is slightly larger but contains 32 million characters over 32 pages.

     

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  7. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Surely, something which has evolved, over the past century or so, to be such a basic and fundamental part of the American state itself – the means of allocation of the young to university entrance, and thus any hope of a bright future – should be administered by the state itself – in the same way as a nation’s judicial, monetary, inelligence, administrative, defence or even postage system are state administered.

    Private business – that effectively is what the ‘College Board’ is will always fall under the suspicion of being ‘biased’ to say the least toward the profit motive and thus persons, entities etc with enough money to make their presence known.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  8. M says:

    Interesting excerpt to highlight. It’s easy to look in hindsight at how wrong it is that it’s all about selecting the right people and breaking up old money cliques. It’s “Not Even Wrong” before you even get to anyone trying to cheat at tests (which on average has little effect…. but maybe at the margins…).

    Instead, the systems of selection based on tests rather than education and background probably wouldn’t have had that much less selective ability (“fair” aptitude tests have a diminishing return compared to the expectation). That stuff’s mostly a sideshow.

    Rather than better selection and “heroic” experts leading by example, the meritocratic and “Chinese” /”Jeffersonian” ideal, its more about accountability for performance, through democracy (not witchhunts and looking for language crimes), about including the ideas and local knowledge of the common man to shape and counterbalance elite pointyheadedness, again through democracy, and finally about avoiding “feel good” and exciting-but-wrong fresh ideas circulating among elites and driving out Common Sense in the intellectual marketplace.

    All of which the modern system is fairly bad at, and the latter of the three which the Liberals who run the academy are particularly bad at, falling every time without fail for exciting, fresh, optimistic ideas that are actually quite useless.

    It’s more about what you do with the elites you have; unless The People (capitalised) regulate elite behavior properly, there’s no real reason that they’d use their talent in a useful way or for sensible ends, whether they’re Old Money or New 1%ers. (And elites may even need particular regulation when they’re just a gaggle of random talented appointees who don’t like or trust one another or The People).

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  9. @JohnnyWalker123
    Universities like foreign students because they pay more money. It's not about PC, it's about greed. That's why universities aren't crazy about Asian-American students, but love overseas Asian students.

    A lot of the destruction to our country comes not from the PC left, but from pro-business centrists and conservatives. The PC left might scream like fairies about microagressions and other such nonsense, but they typically aren't agitating much about bringing in foreign students from China, Taiwan, and India. The centrist/conservative university leadership long ago realized how lucrative foreigners can be, so they've done a lot to bring more here. They've also pushed to give worker visas to foreign-student graduates of American univerisites.

    Univerisities tend to be run by competent executives who want to maximize revenue. Not Marxists or feminists.

    By the way, a lot of these supposedly liberal univerisites oppose allowing their lowly paid adjunct professors to unionize.

    You are right in what you say. If colleges are not run on a break even or better basis, then they go out of business completely. On the occasions when leftists have failed to take notice of this, the college indeed shuts its doors, and the ones that are in operation now are by definition those who have survived the Darwinian struggle.

    2nd, even profit making businesses must operate under the ground rules laid down by leftists and this leads to distorted behavior. We see this for example with VW, where American leftist environmentalists raise the emission standards for diesels so high that VW felt the only way out for them to sell diesel economy cars in America was to cheat.

    So, why is it that modern American college administrators feel this need to bring in full paying Asian students, when decades ago they didn’t? On one side you have cost pressure – faculty costs haven’t gone up that much but administration has grown tremendously – you have affirmative action officers, Title IX coordinators, etc. On the other side, you have all these AA students on scholarships.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kyle
    Food, resources, building materials, construction costs, taxes, property values, health insurance have all gone up.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  10. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The selective college admissions process is a lot more robust than Steve makes it out to be. Not to say that cheating is not a problem, but the SAT is not a single point of failure. In the US, there are school grades, Subject Tests, and AP tests, not to mention letters of recommendation, essays, and extracurriculars. And of course race, legacy, athletic recruiting, first generation, and VIPs are important factors for many. For instance, at Princeton, only 12.8% of applicants with a 2300+ SAT score (99.5+ percentile) were admitted in the most recent year.

    https://admission.princeton.edu/applyingforadmission/admission-statistics

    Moreover, for international students, especially those from countries where SAT cheating is rife like China and Korea, admission is extremely difficult. Harvard, for example, only admits 9 or 10 undergrads per year from China. The ones who are accepted who are not VIPs will have a lot more going for them besides high SAT scores.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  11. “For a long time, that wasn’t a problem because we actually had a pretty good system set up by guys like Conant that Americans didn’t much abuse.”

    ” testing systems in the U.S. are falling apart under the onslaught of millions of Tiger Mothers and their progeny.”

    Interesting form of abuse of the system. Poor mediocre white middle suffering the onslaught of Tiger Mothers worse from above Welfare Mothers from below.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  12. I’m not entirely clear about what Steve is trying to accomplish here.
    I think it’s fairly indisputable that cheating ( acquiring test questions prior to a test ) is both morally and legally wrong and should be suppressed.
    On the question of whether scholastic aptitude testing should be the major criteria for selecting incoming students, what other criteria would Steve prefer : skin color ? birthplace ? gender ? alumni family member ?
    If genetics and/or culture or some indeterminable mixture of the two give prospective students of East Asian heritage an edge in doing better in honestly administered admission tests, so what ?
    Part of what bothers me is the vague concept of “gaming” used here. It would bother me ( a lot ) if cheating were involved. It would bother me not at all if the Tiger Moms ( of whatever racial heritage ) “helicoptered” Junior by keeping the damn TV off and the midnight oil burning as the textbooks were closely studied.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  13. Wealthy asians have no problem with bribing or cheating their way to what they want…and never have had…..

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  14. What? Not a single link to my work? I am wounded.

    “One of my concerns over the last decade is that the high end testing systems in the U.S. are falling apart under the onslaught of millions of Tiger Mothers and their progeny.”

    I completely share your concern except at the high end, I believe it’s already fallen apart. At this point, a competitive test system would have to be completely reworked not only to prevent cheating, but to prevent the sort of systematic gaming that allows Asians to get scores that completely misrepresent their abilities.

    I have long wondered if, at a certain point, the link between test scores and IQs break down for both blacks and Asians (particularly East Asians). I can’t be sure about the new SAT yet, but the last one I no longer accepted the high abilities of any Asian kid I met with triple 800s. I knew too many who had unimpressive abilities–not low, just not top tier. I know more than one African American with a 16 ACT reading score, a 12 on the essay, and a 4 or a 5 on an AP test in English or history. The black kid with that combination is going to get identified, even if it’s not a perfect system, but Asian test obsession is breaking the system.

    Leave aside the cheating for a minute. Assume, as I do, that some of the high scores is done by the ability to get a good score on the test without the underlying knowledge. This ability exists in whites (and probably to a degree in blacks and Hispanics, too). I have it. Give me a test on nuclear physics with any context clues at all, and I’ll get a much better score than I should, given my underlying non-existent knowledge of nuclear physics. But in whites, this ability goes along with very high intelligence. A person of averagely high IQ (say, 110-125) doesn’t usually have this ability.

    But at least in my experience, I see the ability to get a high test score (often with a lot of practice taking tests), to understand the cues and responses to a lot of new material without any retention, without any understanding of the underlying content, is incredibly common in East Asians.

    Our test system just isn’t set up for that. So when Charles Murray calls for a pure test system, I don’t think he knows what that means. Tom Loveless once argued that states should put out a huge database of all the test questions asked by the state tests, because even if the teachers taught the tests directly, only the strong students would remember how to do it and how to answer it. I’m like, are you completely high? And both Tom Loveless and Murray are awesome.

    Anyway. I first wrote about the gaming directly here: https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2014/04/07/sats-competitive-advantage/

    But I also wrote about the unnaturally high scores and the constant increases in Asian score percentiles here:

    https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2013/09/01/college-admissions-race-and-unintended-consequences/

    And I think you linked in my take on the Reuters piece, but here it is again for those who missed it:

    https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2016/03/29/the-sat-is-corrupt-reuters-version/

    Read More
    • Replies: @oh its just me too

    understand the cues and responses to a lot of new material without any retention, without any understanding of the underlying content, is incredibly common in East Asians.
     
    this has been my observation too - which also accounts for the lack of creativity.. or more disturbing, they really don't internalize ethics....i believe there is something incredibly soulless about them to the of being inhuman.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    I agree. I could probably take a test on a subject I know little about and do ok. The reason is that there are usually just 4 available answers for each multiple choice question, two of them are obviously wrong, and it is usually easy to guess which is the right answer from the other two. Writing good tests is hard.
    , @ScarletNumber

    What? Not a single link to my work? I am wounded.
     
    That's because your "work" is mostly repetitive nonsense.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  15. Razib always asks a reasonable question at this point–namely, shouldn’t Asian Americans (as opposed to international students) underperform in college? They do, but it’s not huge. Here’s a study: http://jcc.sagepub.com/content/22/3/403.abstract Razib argues that this is due to the fact that Asians enter tech fields at parents bidding. That may be true.

    But in any event, I’ve been thinking on this for a while, and developing my own additional knowledge of Asian American students here and am starting to wondef if they *would* dramatically underperform in college (outright cheating, buying SAT scores is different). They will still be able to do well, acquiring information and then promptly forgetting it.

    What it means, again, is that our entire school and testing system isn’t geared towards this. We’ve always acknowledged the possibility, because this sort of behavior does exist in whites, but it’s incredibly less common. (again, blacks, Hispanics also possible.)

    I just did some work with the upper level math teachers at my school. We’re developing common quick assessments for district wide initiatives. I suggested that we not only do the assessments instantly after our lesson, to determine initial comprehension, but we randomly issue new generated version of the same quizzes at later dates, without preparation, to see how retention goes. I expected pushback, but all the teachers agreed that we were having increasing problems with kids learning and forgetting. (that is, our Asian population at the school is increasing.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Ed realist, your blatherings are a terrifying mix of entertaining and pitiful.
    Asians have better test scores? They must have cheated. Asian Americans who couldn't have cheated have high test scores? Of course, their tiger mothers made them practice too much, thereby gaming the system. Heck, Asians doing well in college? They must just be learning and forgetting!

    Is there any evidence at all that will make you even slightly consider the possibility that Asians may have some domain-specific advantages over whites? Or do you plan to persist with reaching a conclusion first, and later formulating your arguments to ensure said conclusion is reached?
    , @Oldeguy
    "and am starting to wonder if they would dramatically underperform in college" "They are still able to do well, acquiring information , then promptly forgetting it "
    Really ? In those very STEM heavy schools and courses in which they are so grotesquely over-represented ?
    70% of the Cal Tech under-grad student body is promptly forgetting course content the day after each final as they progress up the ladder from foundational to sub-specialized course work ?
    Please don't misunderstand; a Social Justice Warrior, I sure as hell ain't but I frankly find that to be incredible.
    , @dixie
    http://www.maa.org/news/us-team-takes-first-place-at-international-mathematical-olympiad

    http://www.maa.org/news/us-wins-romanian-master-of-mathematics-competition

    http://www.usaco.org/

    You mean, you suspected that some of them were cheating ?? I am shocked, really shocked.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  16. @JohnnyWalker123
    Universities like foreign students because they pay more money. It's not about PC, it's about greed. That's why universities aren't crazy about Asian-American students, but love overseas Asian students.

    A lot of the destruction to our country comes not from the PC left, but from pro-business centrists and conservatives. The PC left might scream like fairies about microagressions and other such nonsense, but they typically aren't agitating much about bringing in foreign students from China, Taiwan, and India. The centrist/conservative university leadership long ago realized how lucrative foreigners can be, so they've done a lot to bring more here. They've also pushed to give worker visas to foreign-student graduates of American univerisites.

    Univerisities tend to be run by competent executives who want to maximize revenue. Not Marxists or feminists.

    By the way, a lot of these supposedly liberal univerisites oppose allowing their lowly paid adjunct professors to unionize.

    There is another factor in play. The executives who run universities (if you want to call them that) have been able to create the illusion that a university is like a commercial corporation. It has revenue, profits, products, and customers. The executives, then, want to be paid like the officers of major corporations. This was distinctly different when I was at the university in the 1960s. Tuition was low … and university professors and administrators consciously traded an exceptional lifestyle for monetary gain. Most of my professors lived in very modest middle-class homes.

    Then things changed. Students no longer had to work their way through school … nor could they. With the advent of, first, liberal government loans and, then, collateral-free commercial loans to students, finding money for a university degree was no longer a problem. At that point, the university administrators (recast as corporate executives) realized they could hike and re-hike tuition and fees into the stratosphere to pay themselves corporate wages … because the universities’ customers (students) could always borrow more money to cover the rising cost of tuition and fees. Soon, the professors got into the game. Now, obscenely-paid university executives and professors constitute an economic elite living in clusters of mansions in gated communities surrounding their universities.

    In short, the university system today does not educate students as its first order of business. It’s fairer to say that “its business is business”. It financially exploits students … charging whatever the market will bear.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    This post is exactly correct. Very well said.

    The student loans are generally not even dischargeable in bankruptcy court. So by providing an expensive education to a student, the universities can secure a stream of cash flows for years to come. In some cases, perhaps even decades.

    Of course, much of the third world has been getting wealthier in recent decades. Many of the children of the newly affluent class would like to get a Western degree, as it'll open up opportunities and even facilitate settling abroad. So universities realized they could charge these students high tuition and have another source of income.

    To make foreign students even more likely to attend university here, universities strongly supported the OPT visa and H1b visa. Both visas have made it viable for many foreign students to work in the U.S. after their studies and even settle down here.

    University executives/administrators and professors realize what a cash cow they have. There's no way they're going to stop pushing for foreign students. There's also no way they're going to support lowering tuition to more reasonable levels and reforming the student loans market. They're making far too much money to want to change the status quo. Since they have a lot of sway over the politicians, don't expect any legislative action to change anything.

    About 76% of American professors are non-tenured adjuncts now. These adjuncts have no job security and face low pay too. I believe the average salary for them is about 25K/yr, which is absolutely abysmal for someone with advanced educational credentials. They're a highly exploited source of labor in academia. So it's not just students who get exploited, it's also untenured professors. Back in the late 60s, only 20% of American professors were non-tenured adjuncts.

    Ultimately, all of this (overcharging domestic students, selling credentials to foreigners, turning untenured academics into sweatshop labor) is parasitic rent-seeking. A powerful few exploit many to feather their nest. In the process, the parasites gradually kill the host (civic society).

    If Wall Street has financial oligarchs, the universities have their academic oligarchs.
    , @PiltdownMan

    At that point, the university administrators (recast as corporate executives) realized they could hike and re-hike tuition and fees into the stratosphere to pay themselves corporate wages … because the universities’ customers (students) could always borrow more money to cover the rising cost of tuition and fees. Soon, the professors got into the game. Now, obscenely-paid university executives and professors constitute an economic elite living in clusters of mansions in gated communities surrounding their universities.

    In short, the university system today does not educate students as its first order of business. It’s fairer to say that “its business is business”. It financially exploits students … charging whatever the market will bear.
     

    This gets to the heart of the matter.

    My only quibble is that there is, in fact, no "market." Universities are monopolists relative to their captive student population, and price collusion is the norm. Tuition charged by the top 50 or 100 private universities move in lockstep year after year, and are within a few hundred dollars of each other when announced every year.

    Relative to their private sector counterparts, MBA university administrators are in the enviable position of passing on all cost increases to their customers. Demand is inelastic. This is so because a college degree is essential to getting employment in the modern US economy. According to this article, out of 11.6 million jobs created in the post-crash economy, only 80,000 went to those with just a high school diploma.

    http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/30/news/economy/college-grads-jobs/

    If I were starting today in the job market with an MBA, I'd get a job as a college administrator. No shareholders to satisfy! No budgets to cut! Just add it to the tuition bill!

    Indeed, my eldest has just started college, I am keenly aware that without financial aid, the full cost of a 4 year college degree at any of the top 50 or so private colleges in the US is a bit more than 300,000 dollars. Universities have thus cottoned on to the fact that parents today are willing to empty out their pockets and decrease their net worth by as much as a third of a million dollars per child per undergraduate degree. That's firmly in rich kid/parent territory, and it is only financial aid that preserves the fiction of economic diversity in the student body.

    The system is thoroughly corrupted, and it is only a matter of time before academic and intellectual quality begin to suffer.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  17. Look on the bright side, filling universities with Chinese or Indian cheaters will eventually alter campus culture. A different sort of purge.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  18. @Jack D

    the Chinese became obsessed with gaming the test prep system around 606 AD
     
    And the Chinese imperial government,which administered the test, began taking countermeasures around 607.

    First of all, the test required years of prep to memorize hundreds of classical works, which you were expected to quote from in your essay. There was no easy way to "cram".

    Guards verified a student's identity and searched for hidden printed materials. Each test taker was isolated in a tiny cubicle for 3 days . If a candidate died, officials wrapped his body in a straw mat and tossed it over the high walls that ringed the compound.

    Talk about your high stakes test....

    Candidates were identified by number and in order to prevent the scorers from recognizing the handwriting of the test takers, the tests were recopied by scribes.

    And so on. Which leads me to believe that instead of hiring Manuel Alfaro, Coleman should have looked further east for an expert on test security.

    Ancient Chinese ‘cheat sheets’ discovered

    One of the texts, discovered in Qingdao, is thought to be the smallest book ever found in Eastern China. The 160 page text is two-and-a-half inches long and under two inches wide and can fit into a matchbox. It contains 140,000 characters drawn from exam texts.

    The other book, found on the southern island of Hainan, is slightly larger but contains 32 million characters over 32 pages.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    "One of the texts, discovered in Qingdao, is thought to be the smallest book ever found in Eastern China. The 160 page text is two-and-a-half inches long and under two inches wide and can fit into a matchbox. It contains 140,000 characters drawn from exam texts.

    The other book, found on the southern island of Hainan, is slightly larger but contains 32 million characters over 32 pages."

    Let's do a little arithmetic. (Check my arithmetic!) 140,000 characters/160 pages = 875 char/page. 1 inch = 25.4 millimeters, so the area of a page is 2.5 in * 2 in = 2.5*25.4 mm * 2*25.4 mm = 3225.8 sq mm, so the area of each character is no more than 3225.8/875 = 3.69 sq mm, which is a square (Chinese characters fill a square space) of side sqrt(3.69 sq mm) = 1.9 mm on a side. Is your eyesight good enough to read a character that is less than 2 mm high and wide? And is your pinhead calligraphy good enough to prepare a cheat-sheet in which you can fit the 15-stroke character 賞 (which means "prize") inside a 2x2-mm square?

    The other cheat-sheet book has 1 million characters on a page of area about 3x3 inches = 9 square inches, leaving 9*10-6 sq in per character. This means fitting each character into a square of side 3*10^-3 inches =.003 inch * .00254 m/inch = 7.62*10^-6 m = 7.62 micrometers. That's pretty tiny.

    , @Bill P

    One of the texts, discovered in Qingdao, is thought to be the smallest book ever found in Eastern China. The 160 page text is two-and-a-half inches long and under two inches wide and can fit into a matchbox.
     
    Given those dimensions, I think it was designed to fit into something other than a matchbook.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  19. @education realist
    What? Not a single link to my work? I am wounded.

    "One of my concerns over the last decade is that the high end testing systems in the U.S. are falling apart under the onslaught of millions of Tiger Mothers and their progeny."

    I completely share your concern except at the high end, I believe it's already fallen apart. At this point, a competitive test system would have to be completely reworked not only to prevent cheating, but to prevent the sort of systematic gaming that allows Asians to get scores that completely misrepresent their abilities.

    I have long wondered if, at a certain point, the link between test scores and IQs break down for both blacks and Asians (particularly East Asians). I can't be sure about the new SAT yet, but the last one I no longer accepted the high abilities of any Asian kid I met with triple 800s. I knew too many who had unimpressive abilities--not low, just not top tier. I know more than one African American with a 16 ACT reading score, a 12 on the essay, and a 4 or a 5 on an AP test in English or history. The black kid with that combination is going to get identified, even if it's not a perfect system, but Asian test obsession is breaking the system.

    Leave aside the cheating for a minute. Assume, as I do, that some of the high scores is done by the ability to get a good score on the test without the underlying knowledge. This ability exists in whites (and probably to a degree in blacks and Hispanics, too). I have it. Give me a test on nuclear physics with any context clues at all, and I'll get a much better score than I should, given my underlying non-existent knowledge of nuclear physics. But in whites, this ability goes along with very high intelligence. A person of averagely high IQ (say, 110-125) doesn't usually have this ability.

    But at least in my experience, I see the ability to get a high test score (often with a lot of practice taking tests), to understand the cues and responses to a lot of new material without any retention, without any understanding of the underlying content, is incredibly common in East Asians.

    Our test system just isn't set up for that. So when Charles Murray calls for a pure test system, I don't think he knows what that means. Tom Loveless once argued that states should put out a huge database of all the test questions asked by the state tests, because even if the teachers taught the tests directly, only the strong students would remember how to do it and how to answer it. I'm like, are you completely high? And both Tom Loveless and Murray are awesome.

    Anyway. I first wrote about the gaming directly here: https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2014/04/07/sats-competitive-advantage/

    But I also wrote about the unnaturally high scores and the constant increases in Asian score percentiles here:
    https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2013/09/01/college-admissions-race-and-unintended-consequences/

    And I think you linked in my take on the Reuters piece, but here it is again for those who missed it:
    https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2016/03/29/the-sat-is-corrupt-reuters-version/

    understand the cues and responses to a lot of new material without any retention, without any understanding of the underlying content, is incredibly common in East Asians.

    this has been my observation too – which also accounts for the lack of creativity.. or more disturbing, they really don’t internalize ethics….i believe there is something incredibly soulless about them to the of being inhuman.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  20. @JohnnyWalker123
    Universities like foreign students because they pay more money. It's not about PC, it's about greed. That's why universities aren't crazy about Asian-American students, but love overseas Asian students.

    A lot of the destruction to our country comes not from the PC left, but from pro-business centrists and conservatives. The PC left might scream like fairies about microagressions and other such nonsense, but they typically aren't agitating much about bringing in foreign students from China, Taiwan, and India. The centrist/conservative university leadership long ago realized how lucrative foreigners can be, so they've done a lot to bring more here. They've also pushed to give worker visas to foreign-student graduates of American univerisites.

    Univerisities tend to be run by competent executives who want to maximize revenue. Not Marxists or feminists.

    By the way, a lot of these supposedly liberal univerisites oppose allowing their lowly paid adjunct professors to unionize.

    I’ve lived in and around Harvard Square most of my adult life since the late 1970s. When I first arrived on the scene the Square was a vibrant place, full of quirky, independent and locally owned bookstores, specialty item stores, coffeehouses, restaurants, movie houses, and other such businesses, all catering to the needs of students. Street musicians were to be found on every corner, particularly on the weekends. The students that frequented the Square were mostly native-born Americans with a significant admix of foreign students, although these were more concentrated in the older, grad student ages.

    Now wealthy foreigners of college age are the predominant inhabitants of the square. They are spoiled rotten. The local businesses with their affordable wares have been replaced by upscale and very expensive chains. The street musicians are still there but matched in numbers by “homeless” derelicts who foul the streets with their effluvia and occasionally accost passersby in a variety of unpleasant ways. The place has become an uninviting dump, a somewhat sanitized version of an Asian urban center. Native-born students have migrated to new versions of the old Harvard Square, e.g., Davis Square.

    Meanwhile, Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, Northeastern, etc., are making out like bandits off the loot they extract from their new international students and their uber-wealthy, filthy rich parents.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Meanwhile, Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, Northeastern, etc., are making out like bandits off the loot they extract from their new international students and their uber-wealthy, filthy rich parents.
     
    This is a big part of the Boston-Cambridge economy. I can't foresee it going on for the next generation. Big-government baby boomers have made out like bandits in the financialized investor economy and think nothing of dropping $300k for their kid going to BC.
    , @Brutusale
    BU has always been rife with foreign students; it was above thirty percent 35 years ago when I was there. It wasn't "Tel Aviv on the Charles" for nothing!
    , @candid_observer
    There's been a huge runup in the real estate prices in Cambridge over recent years, and this extends to a good degree to the tonier suburbs of Boston. And it's obvious too that virtually all viable portions of Boston itself and its immediate neighbors have been undergoing a massive infusion of money, if one pays attention to the gentrification of the towns and neighborhoods (Somerville and Arlington are two such examples.)

    In the slightly further out suburbs, at least one factor contributing is the infusion of rich Chinese immigrants who are seeking top education for their kids.

    But the general rise in property values across all these towns and neighborhoods must have an explanation beyond that.

    I have been wondering for some time exactly where all this new money is coming from. A big increase in the financial industry? In the medical-biotech industry? In the education industry? A combination of them all?

    But it's remarkable to contrast the Boston/Cambridge/Somerville/Arlington/etc. of, say, the late 70s with that of today.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  21. I wonder if the SAT can increase security by doing what the Project Management Institute does with their certification tests. The certification is very desirable because many jobs require you to be certified and it is taken worldwide by the same people who try to game the SAT pre-college.
    PMI uses a base of about ten thousand questions which makes it tough to cram even if someone gets all the questions in advance. At the test sessions you are using a computer at a testing center which is linked to the Institute’s central server that feeds you a test with 200 semi-randomly selected questions. ( a certain number of questions has to come from each knowledge area so not totally random) No two people ever take the same test. To adjust for that, the difficulty of each question on your test has been weighted on the basis of other test takers past performance, so the pass/fail cutoff varies from test to test. Of the 200 questions, 175 are used for your score and 25 are new ones that are in there for calibration of their difficulty.
    There are still some issues to be addressed with such a system. The SAT uses a quantitative ranking score so instead of pass/fail they would have to convert the results to a performance score so college applicants can still be ranked. Additionally there will always be complaints of unfairness because each test taker got a different test. People will always claim they got a harder test, even though the questions have been calibrated. Perhaps Rhe computer link could be hacked in some way. Finally, if the set of ten thousand questions gets leaked in a security breach, they could still be useful for cramming and test prep, and it would take a long time to rebuild a new base.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  22. I recently worked in test development for the SAT. The security precautions they take to prevent leaks are pretty over-the-top, far more than in any office setting I’ve worked in. On a slightly tangential note, the attempts to incorporate diversity into the testing frequently border on self-parodic: we were constantly looking for test passages that had minority subjects (Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, Indians, and Arabs- nobody else counts), but at the same time we couldn’t talk about anything remotely “upsetting” like slavery or whatnot because that would be a “fairness” issue. The theory is that the student will be so distraught by unpleasant historical facts that they’ll forget the rules of grammar or something. This is hell for the development people: they demand more content for groups in the oppression Olympics and then require that we not talk about anything remotely related to historical oppression. The consequence is that we end up writing upper stories about individual achievement while tip-toeing around the historical context. Because that’s how we measure college-readiness, apparently.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  23. I recently worked in test development for the SAT. The security precautions they take to prevent leaks are pretty over-the-top, far more than in any office setting I’ve worked in. On a slightly tangential note, the attempts to incorporate diversity into the testing frequently border on self-parodic: we were constantly looking for test passages that had minority subjects (Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, Indians, and Arabs- nobody else counts), but at the same time we couldn’t talk about anything remotely “upsetting” like slavery or whatnot because that would be a “fairness” issue. The theory is that the student will be so distraught by unpleasant historical facts that they’ll forget the rules of grammar or something. This is hell for the development people: they demand more content for groups in the oppression Olympics and then require that we not talk about anything remotely related to historical oppression. The consequence is that we end up writing upper stories about individual achievement while tip-toeing around the historical context. That’s how we measure college-readiness, apparently.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  24. Testing has a long proud history in human affairs. And it’s gotten better with time, not less. Although repeating test questions is clearly an own goal if this is actually going to happen.
    But in a sense every recurring test is repetition of questions. There’s only so much variation you can get out of the Pythagorean theorem.

    What must be irking to some whites is that there’s a group of non-whites that do better on standardized tests. If this is a problem, I recommend you read Griffe de Lion for therapy. I’ve seen little evidence that Asians as a whole “over-prepare” for standardized tests. Although there clearly a small minority of Asians who do. If Steve knows the absolute numbers of Tiger moms who over prep and cheat the system and what he means by over prepping and cheating, this would be useful, rather than scaring out “millions”. And better than making a yearly headliner of some random Chinese or Korean kids who’ve stolen answers, etc.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  25. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @education realist
    Razib always asks a reasonable question at this point--namely, shouldn't Asian Americans (as opposed to international students) underperform in college? They do, but it's not huge. Here's a study: http://jcc.sagepub.com/content/22/3/403.abstract Razib argues that this is due to the fact that Asians enter tech fields at parents bidding. That may be true.

    But in any event, I've been thinking on this for a while, and developing my own additional knowledge of Asian American students here and am starting to wondef if they *would* dramatically underperform in college (outright cheating, buying SAT scores is different). They will still be able to do well, acquiring information and then promptly forgetting it.

    What it means, again, is that our entire school and testing system isn't geared towards this. We've always acknowledged the possibility, because this sort of behavior does exist in whites, but it's incredibly less common. (again, blacks, Hispanics also possible.)

    I just did some work with the upper level math teachers at my school. We're developing common quick assessments for district wide initiatives. I suggested that we not only do the assessments instantly after our lesson, to determine initial comprehension, but we randomly issue new generated version of the same quizzes at later dates, without preparation, to see how retention goes. I expected pushback, but all the teachers agreed that we were having increasing problems with kids learning and forgetting. (that is, our Asian population at the school is increasing.)

    Ed realist, your blatherings are a terrifying mix of entertaining and pitiful.
    Asians have better test scores? They must have cheated. Asian Americans who couldn’t have cheated have high test scores? Of course, their tiger mothers made them practice too much, thereby gaming the system. Heck, Asians doing well in college? They must just be learning and forgetting!

    Is there any evidence at all that will make you even slightly consider the possibility that Asians may have some domain-specific advantages over whites? Or do you plan to persist with reaching a conclusion first, and later formulating your arguments to ensure said conclusion is reached?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    One-comment poster seems never to have read Ed R's blog.

    (@FKA Max - while there may well be corruption in, say, Japan, would you rather be a lost Indian tourist in Tokyo or in DC?)

    , @ic1000
    > Ed realist, your blatherings are a terrifying mix of entertaining and pitiful... Is there any evidence at all that will make you even slightly consider the possibility that... Or do you plan to persist with reaching a conclusion first, and later formulating your arguments to ensure said conclusion is reached?

    Try reading the posts at her (his?) blog, then revisit your criticisms. You might be surprised.
    , @Jean Cocteausten
    Large-scale Asian cheating is well documented, even by the College Board which has nothing to gain in admitting they've been had.

    Is it possible you yourself are not entirely clear on the difference between an honest try and a cheat?
    , @Anonymous
    Ed realist is a conservative nationalist. Ed realist is also a teacher and teaches many Asian students. Being a conservative nationalist means favoring your own kind, regardless of test scores or some other measure. Needless to say this is considered non-PC and prejudiced, even though it doesn't necessarily entail any hostility or animus. People generally don't want to be perceived as being biased, especially if they're dealing with kids. Conservative nationalism is deemed illegitimate, so you're forced to devise alternative arguments.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  26. Gee, I called the FBI and told them there is a scandal at the Clinton Foundation. I guess they didn’t believe me.

    But then again, Goldman Sachs called the FBI and they immediately sprung into action, immediately located and locked up Sergey Aleynikov.

    Now someone steals a few test questions and already the FBI is executing search warrants and Congress people are squealing like pigs.

    But Solyndra looted the taxpayers for 100s of millions of dollars and FBI sleepwalks through the investigation for 2 years and a tiny announcement is made that Solyndra lied to get the government guaranteed loan. Not prosecuted of course.

    And some people called about a terrorist down in Florida and the FBI closed out their investigation a number of times. Probably got annoyed.

    A “no, that can’t be report” has it that an FBI undercover agent was at the Geller shooting in Texas sending on scene information to a person who recruited the shooters to blow off the Pam Gellers head.

    https://theintercept.com/2016/08/04/fbi-had-undercover-agent-at-scene-of-draw-muhammad-shooting-in-garland/

    Rant off. Please have a safe weekend.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  27. The system defines merit as studiousness yet by the time you are a decade or so into your career you notice rank is not ordered strictly in this way. The highest IQ, most studious types tend to be led by the less (but still relatively high) IQ, slightly less studious types

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  28. Can it be so hard to compose new questions, or the testers so cheap that they won’t pay anyone to do it? And then people vapour on about a so-called “Flynn effect”!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  29. @education realist
    What? Not a single link to my work? I am wounded.

    "One of my concerns over the last decade is that the high end testing systems in the U.S. are falling apart under the onslaught of millions of Tiger Mothers and their progeny."

    I completely share your concern except at the high end, I believe it's already fallen apart. At this point, a competitive test system would have to be completely reworked not only to prevent cheating, but to prevent the sort of systematic gaming that allows Asians to get scores that completely misrepresent their abilities.

    I have long wondered if, at a certain point, the link between test scores and IQs break down for both blacks and Asians (particularly East Asians). I can't be sure about the new SAT yet, but the last one I no longer accepted the high abilities of any Asian kid I met with triple 800s. I knew too many who had unimpressive abilities--not low, just not top tier. I know more than one African American with a 16 ACT reading score, a 12 on the essay, and a 4 or a 5 on an AP test in English or history. The black kid with that combination is going to get identified, even if it's not a perfect system, but Asian test obsession is breaking the system.

    Leave aside the cheating for a minute. Assume, as I do, that some of the high scores is done by the ability to get a good score on the test without the underlying knowledge. This ability exists in whites (and probably to a degree in blacks and Hispanics, too). I have it. Give me a test on nuclear physics with any context clues at all, and I'll get a much better score than I should, given my underlying non-existent knowledge of nuclear physics. But in whites, this ability goes along with very high intelligence. A person of averagely high IQ (say, 110-125) doesn't usually have this ability.

    But at least in my experience, I see the ability to get a high test score (often with a lot of practice taking tests), to understand the cues and responses to a lot of new material without any retention, without any understanding of the underlying content, is incredibly common in East Asians.

    Our test system just isn't set up for that. So when Charles Murray calls for a pure test system, I don't think he knows what that means. Tom Loveless once argued that states should put out a huge database of all the test questions asked by the state tests, because even if the teachers taught the tests directly, only the strong students would remember how to do it and how to answer it. I'm like, are you completely high? And both Tom Loveless and Murray are awesome.

    Anyway. I first wrote about the gaming directly here: https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2014/04/07/sats-competitive-advantage/

    But I also wrote about the unnaturally high scores and the constant increases in Asian score percentiles here:
    https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2013/09/01/college-admissions-race-and-unintended-consequences/

    And I think you linked in my take on the Reuters piece, but here it is again for those who missed it:
    https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2016/03/29/the-sat-is-corrupt-reuters-version/

    I agree. I could probably take a test on a subject I know little about and do ok. The reason is that there are usually just 4 available answers for each multiple choice question, two of them are obviously wrong, and it is usually easy to guess which is the right answer from the other two. Writing good tests is hard.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  30. “One of my concerns over the last decade is that the high end testing systems in the U.S. are falling apart under the onslaught of millions of Tiger Mothers and their progeny.”

    Yep.

    Our testing system wasn’t designed to take into account legions of foreigners who specialize in figuring how scam the system and come from a low trust culture where everything is for sale.

    One way to stop a lot of it, is to stop colleges from bringing students in from Asia. Give these slots back to American students. Our schools should be for Americans first and foremost. If some college greedheads want to make money off foreign students, let them set a up a college that caters exclusively to foreigners with money.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  31. “the basic theory that intelligence is an innate and sort of biological quality and that it’s the most important human quality.”

    It seems reasonable for a University boss to think that intelligence is the most important quality in his undergraduates. People in other circumstances might reasonably think differently. Churchill thought courage the most important.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  32. Most important and underappreciated story in the USA today, in my opinion.

    Such statistics only measure individuals convicted and do not address group/collectivistic crime, such as Asian crime gangs: K-L. Chin, “Chinatown Gangs”, (Oxford University Press, New York, 1996). Police find it impossible to penetrate Chinese “Cong Societies” due to group loyalty and the fear instilled in Chinese-Americans: D.D. Daye, “A Law Enforcement Sourcebook on Asian Crime and Cultures”, (CRC Press, Boca Raton, 1997). [...] It is impossible to suppose that East Asians commit less crime than Whites given the extent of bribery and “kick-backs” in Asian society, which is a way of life. Tax evasion and the use of a cash economy is also a matter of fact. None of this is considered by Rushton.

    http://thecross-roads.org/race-culture-nation/25-the-myth-of-east-asian-intellectual-supremacy

    I am always flabbergasted by the assertion of many prominent ”race realists” that Asians/Northeast Asians have the lowest crime rates, low (violent) common crime rates that is, but they completely ignore, or are oblivious to Asian/Northeast Asian (non-violent) white-collar crime.

    Case in point:
    FBI: Top Ten Most Wanted of America’s White Collar Criminals Not Too White American http://www.unz.com/isteve/fbis-top-ten-most-wanted-white-collar-criminals-list-not-too-white/

    White collar crime, it appears, is today a vibrantly diverse field, with native born American whites having been relegated to a small minority of the most wanted offenders.

    Reading from left to right, the Most Wanted were born in Israel, Unknown (Asian), Brazil, Nigeria, South Korea, Syria, Laos, America (Asian), America (white), Russia. The one American-born white guy is named Hamed Ahmed Elbarki.

    Now that’s diversity!

    White-collar crime has been defined recently as the use of a significant position of power for illegal gain that results in damage or harm to victims as measured by financial loss, physical harm, and damage to the community’s moral climate. Most experts agree that the economic impact of white-collar crime is far more costly than ordinary crime.

    https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/abstract.aspx?ID=77821

    Law-enforcement officials in this country say that highly organized rings of college-admission-exams imposters—once considered a unique artifact of the high-stakes, test-driven Chinese education system—have arrived on U.S. shores.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/03/how-sophisticated-test-scams-from-china-are-making-their-way-into-the-us/474474/

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  33. High stakes testing is a result of Civil Service testing brought to you by New Yorker and POTUS Chester Arthur and lone gunman Charles Giteau. After the Pendleton act, testing in the US keeps expanding until it becomes ‘unsustainable’, which is probably never as testing is to cheap to stop, and the government has infinite wealth. While it was probably inevitable, high stakes testing gets a big boost from the centralization of the US economy caused by the Civil war and reconstruction.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendleton_Civil_Service_Reform_Act

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  34. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “Most famously or notoriously, he was central to Harry Truman’s decision to drop the Bomb on Hiroshima.”

    He was central in more ways than one. He was doctoral advisor of Louis Fieser.

    “A team of chemists led by Louis Fieser at Harvard University was the first to develop synthetic napalm, during 1942.[4] “The production of napalm was first entrusted to Nuodex Products, and by the middle of April 1942 they had developed a brown, dry powder that was not sticky by itself, but when mixed with gasoline turned into an extremely sticky and inflammable substance.” One of Fieser’s colleagues suggested adding phosphorus to the mix which increased the “ability to penetrate deeply…into the musculature, where it would continue to burn day after day.”[5]

    On 4 July 1942, the first test occurred on the football field near the Harvard Business School.[5]”

    ” the League of Nations act. On September 30, 1938, a unanimous resolution was passed to outlaw “the intentional bombing of civilian populations.” Then, on September 1, 1939, at the outbreak of World War II, U.S. President Roosevelt beseeched the belligerents to refrain from the “inhuman barbarism” of bombing civilian centers, acts which had “sickened the hearts of every civilized man and woman,” and “profoundly shocked the conscience of humanity.””

    We all know how that went.

    After killing maybe 100,000 Japanese in the firebombing of Tokyo with napalm/incendiary bombs, it was hard to argue that atomic bombs were more inhumane.

    All of which make the notion of a ‘bright line’ regarding Syrian use of chemical weapons silly. The Russians got us off the hook on that foolish threat. Although it hasn’t stopped the US from bombing Syria without any other pretext.

    Call me old fashioned, but I am not particularly impressed with popular notions of barbaric vs civilized death in warfare. I suppose beheading a few Western journalists impressed typical Americans about the depravity of ISIS. However, the NYT’s decided to publish a bizarrely detailed article about ISIS rape of Christian ‘sex slaves’ http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/world/middleeast/to-maintain-supply-of-sex-slaves-isis-pushes-birth-control.html?_r=0

    “She told me, ‘If you are pregnant, we are going to send you back,’” J. said. “They took me into the lab. There were machines that looked like centrifuges and other contraptions. They drew three vials of my blood. About 30 or 40 minutes later, they came back to say I wasn’t pregnant.”

    I find it impossible to believe that these contraceptive obsessed monsters, would be ignorant of the First Response pregnancy test.

    I don’t know exactly who was supposed to be moved by the drumbeats/dogwhistles of war. The Pope? FWIW, wouldn’t your average sex slave prefer to avoid pregnancy.

    I am beyond off topic at this point.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    Yes, stories like that one about the sex slaves and pregnancy are beyond parody. They are like IS's internet propaganda, which often seems to be written by jihad-aboos rather than actual Muslims.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  35. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    About a generation ago, about 80% to 90% of China’s population were farmers, largely illiterate despite the usual communist proclamations about universal literacy. Today China is about half urbanized.

    Many American universities, including state universities, claim to be “world universities” that effectively represent the entire world and diversity within America. With or without cheating, it’s impossible to do this without quotas. Obviously the quotas have to be maintained or restricted even further. Presumably Asian scores will continue to rise, via cheating and non-cheating, as they’re competing amongst each other for the highest scores, and the competition is becoming intensified.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Presumably Asian scores will continue to rise ...

    The 2016 revision of the SAT has resulted in higher scores. Asians had an average math score of 598 on the old version, which will be about 645 on the new version. It will probably be a year before College Board releases SAT scores by race.

    I think that the elite colleges wanted more perfect scores. If perfect scores are a dime a dozen then applicants are less likely to complain or sue when they get rejected.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  36. @Anonymous
    Ed realist, your blatherings are a terrifying mix of entertaining and pitiful.
    Asians have better test scores? They must have cheated. Asian Americans who couldn't have cheated have high test scores? Of course, their tiger mothers made them practice too much, thereby gaming the system. Heck, Asians doing well in college? They must just be learning and forgetting!

    Is there any evidence at all that will make you even slightly consider the possibility that Asians may have some domain-specific advantages over whites? Or do you plan to persist with reaching a conclusion first, and later formulating your arguments to ensure said conclusion is reached?

    One-comment poster seems never to have read Ed R’s blog.

    ( – while there may well be corruption in, say, Japan, would you rather be a lost Indian tourist in Tokyo or in DC?)

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Tokyo is an extremely safe city.

    Homicide rate is 0.4 per 100,000. I'd assume those are mainly foreigners and Yakuza.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  37. @Anonymous
    Ed realist, your blatherings are a terrifying mix of entertaining and pitiful.
    Asians have better test scores? They must have cheated. Asian Americans who couldn't have cheated have high test scores? Of course, their tiger mothers made them practice too much, thereby gaming the system. Heck, Asians doing well in college? They must just be learning and forgetting!

    Is there any evidence at all that will make you even slightly consider the possibility that Asians may have some domain-specific advantages over whites? Or do you plan to persist with reaching a conclusion first, and later formulating your arguments to ensure said conclusion is reached?

    > Ed realist, your blatherings are a terrifying mix of entertaining and pitiful… Is there any evidence at all that will make you even slightly consider the possibility that… Or do you plan to persist with reaching a conclusion first, and later formulating your arguments to ensure said conclusion is reached?

    Try reading the posts at her (his?) blog, then revisit your criticisms. You might be surprised.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  38. Wow, people in these comments are really conflating two very different phenomena.

    1) On average people of East Asian ethnicity do well on standardized academic aptitude tests, through some combination of innate intellectual ability, culture, parental pressure, and hard work.

    2) Some East Asians (mostly in Asia it seems) are engaged in cheating networks to unfairly do well on these tests.

    #1 is more credit to them and fully well consistent with the meritocracy that we should have.

    #2 is obviously criminal and distorting and should be stamped out.

    But the existence of #2 says nothing about the value of #1.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  39. @education realist
    Razib always asks a reasonable question at this point--namely, shouldn't Asian Americans (as opposed to international students) underperform in college? They do, but it's not huge. Here's a study: http://jcc.sagepub.com/content/22/3/403.abstract Razib argues that this is due to the fact that Asians enter tech fields at parents bidding. That may be true.

    But in any event, I've been thinking on this for a while, and developing my own additional knowledge of Asian American students here and am starting to wondef if they *would* dramatically underperform in college (outright cheating, buying SAT scores is different). They will still be able to do well, acquiring information and then promptly forgetting it.

    What it means, again, is that our entire school and testing system isn't geared towards this. We've always acknowledged the possibility, because this sort of behavior does exist in whites, but it's incredibly less common. (again, blacks, Hispanics also possible.)

    I just did some work with the upper level math teachers at my school. We're developing common quick assessments for district wide initiatives. I suggested that we not only do the assessments instantly after our lesson, to determine initial comprehension, but we randomly issue new generated version of the same quizzes at later dates, without preparation, to see how retention goes. I expected pushback, but all the teachers agreed that we were having increasing problems with kids learning and forgetting. (that is, our Asian population at the school is increasing.)

    “and am starting to wonder if they would dramatically underperform in college” “They are still able to do well, acquiring information , then promptly forgetting it ”
    Really ? In those very STEM heavy schools and courses in which they are so grotesquely over-represented ?
    70% of the Cal Tech under-grad student body is promptly forgetting course content the day after each final as they progress up the ladder from foundational to sub-specialized course work ?
    Please don’t misunderstand; a Social Justice Warrior, I sure as hell ain’t but I frankly find that to be incredible.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    "70% of the Cal Tech under-grad student body is promptly forgetting course content the day after each final as they progress up the ladder from foundational to sub-specialized course work ?"

    You know what's really odd about Caltech? I really can't think of a single really important figure that went to school there.

    They've been around quite a while (Steve has written about Jack Parsons a time or two). But I can't think of a single Nobel prize winner, a single important innovator of any sort who went to school there.

    Anyone got anything? I'm drawing a blank. My grad school days ended a long time ago, but even then I saw lots of things done by the "usual suspects," Berkeley, Michigan, etc.

    They've been using this system a long time. But as Reagan put it, "Where's the beef?"

    Maybe I'm wrong, if so someone will point out important work done by Caltech grads, or a notable figure in a scientific or engineering field. But me, I got nothin' on these guys.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  40. @JohnnyWalker123
    Universities like foreign students because they pay more money. It's not about PC, it's about greed. That's why universities aren't crazy about Asian-American students, but love overseas Asian students.

    A lot of the destruction to our country comes not from the PC left, but from pro-business centrists and conservatives. The PC left might scream like fairies about microagressions and other such nonsense, but they typically aren't agitating much about bringing in foreign students from China, Taiwan, and India. The centrist/conservative university leadership long ago realized how lucrative foreigners can be, so they've done a lot to bring more here. They've also pushed to give worker visas to foreign-student graduates of American univerisites.

    Univerisities tend to be run by competent executives who want to maximize revenue. Not Marxists or feminists.

    By the way, a lot of these supposedly liberal univerisites oppose allowing their lowly paid adjunct professors to unionize.

    Steve, IIRC one of the Presidential candidates recently warned America about the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad ideas and people of this thing that she called the alt-right.

    Why is it that I keep discovering insightful essays on various current events themes (the SAT, Olympic Track & Field, immigration) at iSteve, instead of in the NYT Magazine, etc.?

    Icing on the cake are the informed commenters, in this case including JohnnyWalker123, Jack D, SomethingToSay, Jus’ Sayin’, Education Realist.

    New readers alerted by that candidate to this dire Phantom Menace should be encouraged to dip into posts like this one. Maybe they’ll be as puzzled as I am.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Thanks.

    I actually check this site almost every day. I think the quality of Steve's posts is excellent. If you want to learn how the world really works, you'll learn more here than you would reading the mainstream publications.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  41. @Hippopotamusdrome


    Ancient Chinese 'cheat sheets' discovered
    ...
    One of the texts, discovered in Qingdao, is thought to be the smallest book ever found in Eastern China. The 160 page text is two-and-a-half inches long and under two inches wide and can fit into a matchbox. It contains 140,000 characters drawn from exam texts.

    The other book, found on the southern island of Hainan, is slightly larger but contains 32 million characters over 32 pages.

     

    “One of the texts, discovered in Qingdao, is thought to be the smallest book ever found in Eastern China. The 160 page text is two-and-a-half inches long and under two inches wide and can fit into a matchbox. It contains 140,000 characters drawn from exam texts.

    The other book, found on the southern island of Hainan, is slightly larger but contains 32 million characters over 32 pages.”

    Let’s do a little arithmetic. (Check my arithmetic!) 140,000 characters/160 pages = 875 char/page. 1 inch = 25.4 millimeters, so the area of a page is 2.5 in * 2 in = 2.5*25.4 mm * 2*25.4 mm = 3225.8 sq mm, so the area of each character is no more than 3225.8/875 = 3.69 sq mm, which is a square (Chinese characters fill a square space) of side sqrt(3.69 sq mm) = 1.9 mm on a side. Is your eyesight good enough to read a character that is less than 2 mm high and wide? And is your pinhead calligraphy good enough to prepare a cheat-sheet in which you can fit the 15-stroke character 賞 (which means “prize”) inside a 2×2-mm square?

    The other cheat-sheet book has 1 million characters on a page of area about 3×3 inches = 9 square inches, leaving 9*10-6 sq in per character. This means fitting each character into a square of side 3*10^-3 inches =.003 inch * .00254 m/inch = 7.62*10^-6 m = 7.62 micrometers. That’s pretty tiny.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Typical journalistic innumeracy. Most reporters were English majors for a reason.
    , @JohnnyGeo
    and that's leaving no white space (is that racist?)
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  42. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Dear Steve,
    Caught the grim news today, viz., the Hemisphere’s Greatest Living Novelist on bad advice or from an aneurysm succumbing to inexplicable lapses of judgment in publishing a quickie new-journalism release slagging Darwin and Chomsky as beetle-browed arrivistes with their nebbishy noggins stuck way up the campus belfry, and then for good measure lifting his leg to the theory of natural selection which he seems to treat as a stoner’s hallucinatory punchline now (and inexcusably, Galton didn’t get mentioned, again).

    Should this send you into a week-long depression, hiding under the bed, I could grok that. You must continue the fight, however, I think there’s hope for this fuzzy-headed fiction finagler to mend his HBD fences, or at least, not expecting him any time soon in the all-white KFC ensemble doing vaudeville at Ark Encounter with Ben Stein. Maybe old Tom was simply bedazzled by meme magic, after the kooky co-ed catfished his speculative U.Va. bestseller into science-fact… It could happen to anyone these days! (They’re even making a movie out of the other T. Wolfe, just to bollox it all up.) Excelsior, onward & upward, your friend, -”Leijona of the Baltosphere”

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  43. @Anonymous
    Ed realist, your blatherings are a terrifying mix of entertaining and pitiful.
    Asians have better test scores? They must have cheated. Asian Americans who couldn't have cheated have high test scores? Of course, their tiger mothers made them practice too much, thereby gaming the system. Heck, Asians doing well in college? They must just be learning and forgetting!

    Is there any evidence at all that will make you even slightly consider the possibility that Asians may have some domain-specific advantages over whites? Or do you plan to persist with reaching a conclusion first, and later formulating your arguments to ensure said conclusion is reached?

    Large-scale Asian cheating is well documented, even by the College Board which has nothing to gain in admitting they’ve been had.

    Is it possible you yourself are not entirely clear on the difference between an honest try and a cheat?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  44. Every conceivable meritocracy, degrades over time into an aristocracy. It just has to happen that way.

    I dunno. This elides a couple of big points.

    The first is that there’s often a lot of overlap between aristocracy and meritocracy, for obvious reasons. The FT profiled some Italian nobleman/businessman last week whose family was a banking dynasty 700 years ago. The current generation seems pretty competent.

    The second is that the problem with the current Harvard set isn’t that it’s aristocratic, but that it is globalist. Maybe Conant didn’t anticipate that. The Italian nobleman started a venture to help his fellow Italians, a program to reduce recidivism of convicts by letting them work in a vineyard.

    Contrast that with Italian American billionaire Chris Sacca, who doesn’t tip his Uber drivers, and focuses his charity on digging wells for African villagers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @oh its just me too

    " current Harvard set isn’t that it’s aristocratic, but that it is globalist."
     
    funny you should say that i was just at the harvard club (nyc) yesterday.. it was 60% chinese/indian- and it reeked of corruption and ....sleeze...

    Quite a few gold digging white women with older chinese and indian guys on what were obvious first 'meetings' I don't know if i would call them escort services, but 'date' didn't seem like a proper term either...

    Saddest part, eves dropped on a conversation where one young, pretty good looking white woman was saying marriage is an outdated institution, kids are a nuisance that get in the way of career and bring undo stress and health problems.

    How did we get to this?

    , @Kyle
    Uber bans tipping.
    It's cashless for female safety.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  45. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Ed realist, your blatherings are a terrifying mix of entertaining and pitiful.
    Asians have better test scores? They must have cheated. Asian Americans who couldn't have cheated have high test scores? Of course, their tiger mothers made them practice too much, thereby gaming the system. Heck, Asians doing well in college? They must just be learning and forgetting!

    Is there any evidence at all that will make you even slightly consider the possibility that Asians may have some domain-specific advantages over whites? Or do you plan to persist with reaching a conclusion first, and later formulating your arguments to ensure said conclusion is reached?

    Ed realist is a conservative nationalist. Ed realist is also a teacher and teaches many Asian students. Being a conservative nationalist means favoring your own kind, regardless of test scores or some other measure. Needless to say this is considered non-PC and prejudiced, even though it doesn’t necessarily entail any hostility or animus. People generally don’t want to be perceived as being biased, especially if they’re dealing with kids. Conservative nationalism is deemed illegitimate, so you’re forced to devise alternative arguments.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hacienda
    Okay. No problems with that. But don't pretend to be a "realist", then. If you don't want Asians at MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, Caltech, just say so. Don't pretend like you're smarter than them.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  46. Looking back to when I took the SAT in the mid-Sixties as a kid from rural upper NY State, I myself might very well have passed on the “regatta” question or at least might have had to take a guess. The SAT, as I understand its traditional purpose, was never designed to be an IQ test. The protests against such as the “regatta-type question” would seem to underscore the argument that the tests are, or can be, culturally biased. Would an Inuit Eskimo from north of the Arctic Circle necessarily know the meaning of “cactus is to desert as…?” Or, for that matter, would he/she have even known the definition of a “regatta?” I mean, there isn’t much cactus in the arctic, right?

    The point is, if the SAT wasn’t meant to be designed to measure IQ–and it looks to me as though Dr. Conant’s thinking is a bit muddled on this subject– then exactly what DOES it measure?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome


    , I myself might very well have passed on the “regatta” question

     

    Regatta. Etymology: From Venetian regata ("contention for mastery"), from regatare ("compete, haggle, sell at retail"), possibly from recatare.

    Shouldn't that be culturally biased in favor of Italians?


    Would an Inuit Eskimo from north of the Arctic Circle necessarily know the meaning of “cactus is to desert as…?”

     

    Do you live in a desert? If not, how do you know what a cactus is? How do you know what an igloo, polar bear, penguin, kayak, iceberg and dog sled are if you don't live in the Arctic Circle?

    Do you know what continent a kangaroo, digeridoo, and boomerang would be found. Would such questions be culturally biased against Americans?

    Banana tree is to rainforest ... Do you need to live in the rainforest to know?

    On the topic of boat races, can you name the people who sail in a trireme, galleon, junk, longship, outrigger canoe, kayak, currach and cog respectively?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  47. @Dave Pinsen

    Every conceivable meritocracy, degrades over time into an aristocracy. It just has to happen that way.
     
    I dunno. This elides a couple of big points.

    The first is that there's often a lot of overlap between aristocracy and meritocracy, for obvious reasons. The FT profiled some Italian nobleman/businessman last week whose family was a banking dynasty 700 years ago. The current generation seems pretty competent.

    The second is that the problem with the current Harvard set isn't that it's aristocratic, but that it is globalist. Maybe Conant didn't anticipate that. The Italian nobleman started a venture to help his fellow Italians, a program to reduce recidivism of convicts by letting them work in a vineyard.

    Contrast that with Italian American billionaire Chris Sacca, who doesn't tip his Uber drivers, and focuses his charity on digging wells for African villagers.
    https://twitter.com/FTHouseHome/status/766148626783633408

    ” current Harvard set isn’t that it’s aristocratic, but that it is globalist.”

    funny you should say that i was just at the harvard club (nyc) yesterday.. it was 60% chinese/indian- and it reeked of corruption and ….sleeze…

    Quite a few gold digging white women with older chinese and indian guys on what were obvious first ‘meetings’ I don’t know if i would call them escort services, but ‘date’ didn’t seem like a proper term either…

    Saddest part, eves dropped on a conversation where one young, pretty good looking white woman was saying marriage is an outdated institution, kids are a nuisance that get in the way of career and bring undo stress and health problems.

    How did we get to this?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Is your wonderment genuine?

    In Dostoevsky's Karamàzov, Christ and the Grand Inquisitor meet. The Inquisitor knows Christ's dream is to liberate people and make them completely free, thus he explains to Christ what would be of them, the day they'd be completely free.

    As we all may have intuited on our own, the higher the IQ of a woman is, the less her biologic inclination to have offspring.
    What that Harvard female said during an Harvard club meeting has me worried infinitely less than what we see on the most popular recreational websites, from Reddit to GirlsAskGuys to tumblr.

    Saying you desire to have children is becoming a taboo, as much as saying you are Christian.
    If you socio-program women to believe it their duty to follow the trail of men and be like men, you get very different an outcome than socio-programming women to believe it their duty to give birth to children and care for the familial nest.

    The ideal solution would be not to socio-program women in one direction of its obverse.
    They'd split into groups, and many would desire to have their offspring.
    But that's not to be hoped for. Ideologies are shaken off only when a new one takes their place.
    Not even a little bracket of freedom gets between an ideological phase and the next one.
    , @artichoke
    The place may have sunk to the point that the best Harvard graduates join a club that doesn't come automatically with graduation. I am assuming the older Chinese and Indian guys were the Harvard grads, the younger white girls not associated with Harvard. But saying "I'll take you to the Harvard Club" is probably a good way to get a date on Tinder or other online dating method.

    But if the girl doesn't want kids, is she just in it for a one night stand? I would expect Chinese and Indian men want kids, unless they have families at home and this is just a little extra on the side.
    , @Anonymous
    The Harvard Club of New York City allows external organizations and individual non-members lacking any Harvard ties to rent club space for special events including conferences and weddings. Are you sure that some of those people that you saw weren't at the club for a special event or a wedding?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  48. @Jack D
    You are right in what you say. If colleges are not run on a break even or better basis, then they go out of business completely. On the occasions when leftists have failed to take notice of this, the college indeed shuts its doors, and the ones that are in operation now are by definition those who have survived the Darwinian struggle.

    2nd, even profit making businesses must operate under the ground rules laid down by leftists and this leads to distorted behavior. We see this for example with VW, where American leftist environmentalists raise the emission standards for diesels so high that VW felt the only way out for them to sell diesel economy cars in America was to cheat.

    So, why is it that modern American college administrators feel this need to bring in full paying Asian students, when decades ago they didn't? On one side you have cost pressure - faculty costs haven't gone up that much but administration has grown tremendously - you have affirmative action officers, Title IX coordinators, etc. On the other side, you have all these AA students on scholarships.

    Food, resources, building materials, construction costs, taxes, property values, health insurance have all gone up.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  49. @Dave Pinsen

    Every conceivable meritocracy, degrades over time into an aristocracy. It just has to happen that way.
     
    I dunno. This elides a couple of big points.

    The first is that there's often a lot of overlap between aristocracy and meritocracy, for obvious reasons. The FT profiled some Italian nobleman/businessman last week whose family was a banking dynasty 700 years ago. The current generation seems pretty competent.

    The second is that the problem with the current Harvard set isn't that it's aristocratic, but that it is globalist. Maybe Conant didn't anticipate that. The Italian nobleman started a venture to help his fellow Italians, a program to reduce recidivism of convicts by letting them work in a vineyard.

    Contrast that with Italian American billionaire Chris Sacca, who doesn't tip his Uber drivers, and focuses his charity on digging wells for African villagers.
    https://twitter.com/FTHouseHome/status/766148626783633408

    Uber bans tipping.
    It’s cashless for female safety.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Uber doesn't ban tipping; it just doesn't facilitate it via the app (as Lyft does). You can tip Uber drivers in cash. Maybe 10% of riders did when I drove for Uber, and Uber's welcome video explicitly said drivers were free to accept tips (though not to solicit for them).

    Not sure what any of this has to do with female safety.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  50. @Anonymous
    Ed realist is a conservative nationalist. Ed realist is also a teacher and teaches many Asian students. Being a conservative nationalist means favoring your own kind, regardless of test scores or some other measure. Needless to say this is considered non-PC and prejudiced, even though it doesn't necessarily entail any hostility or animus. People generally don't want to be perceived as being biased, especially if they're dealing with kids. Conservative nationalism is deemed illegitimate, so you're forced to devise alternative arguments.

    Okay. No problems with that. But don’t pretend to be a “realist”, then. If you don’t want Asians at MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, Caltech, just say so. Don’t pretend like you’re smarter than them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    Okay. No problems with that. But don’t pretend to be a “realist”, then. If you don’t want Asians at MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, Caltech, just say so. Don’t pretend like you’re smarter than them.
     
    Oh, hell yeah! If you don't like corruption, just ignore it!!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  51. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    I've lived in and around Harvard Square most of my adult life since the late 1970s. When I first arrived on the scene the Square was a vibrant place, full of quirky, independent and locally owned bookstores, specialty item stores, coffeehouses, restaurants, movie houses, and other such businesses, all catering to the needs of students. Street musicians were to be found on every corner, particularly on the weekends. The students that frequented the Square were mostly native-born Americans with a significant admix of foreign students, although these were more concentrated in the older, grad student ages.

    Now wealthy foreigners of college age are the predominant inhabitants of the square. They are spoiled rotten. The local businesses with their affordable wares have been replaced by upscale and very expensive chains. The street musicians are still there but matched in numbers by "homeless" derelicts who foul the streets with their effluvia and occasionally accost passersby in a variety of unpleasant ways. The place has become an uninviting dump, a somewhat sanitized version of an Asian urban center. Native-born students have migrated to new versions of the old Harvard Square, e.g., Davis Square.

    Meanwhile, Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, Northeastern, etc., are making out like bandits off the loot they extract from their new international students and their uber-wealthy, filthy rich parents.

    Meanwhile, Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, Northeastern, etc., are making out like bandits off the loot they extract from their new international students and their uber-wealthy, filthy rich parents.

    This is a big part of the Boston-Cambridge economy. I can’t foresee it going on for the next generation. Big-government baby boomers have made out like bandits in the financialized investor economy and think nothing of dropping $300k for their kid going to BC.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  52. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I can’t speak for this particular SAT question, but some questions on standardized tests aren’t scored. They’re deliberately put in there indicate socio-economic class of the test takers and thereby, the test’s cultural bias, if any. In other words, not all is as it seems. Don’t assume that the motives of the test question creators are so straightforward. They’ve been designing these tests for a long time.

    For example, the frequency of response to each answer to every question is analyzed. Any answer that is not getting its share of responses is tossed out and revised until it does. That’s why, while the true answer may be 23.6, the other answers will be 2.36, 236 and 47.2 and not 1007.79. The other three are plausible due to some simple error in calculation which the taker may have made, 1007.79 is not.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  53. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    "One of the texts, discovered in Qingdao, is thought to be the smallest book ever found in Eastern China. The 160 page text is two-and-a-half inches long and under two inches wide and can fit into a matchbox. It contains 140,000 characters drawn from exam texts.

    The other book, found on the southern island of Hainan, is slightly larger but contains 32 million characters over 32 pages."

    Let's do a little arithmetic. (Check my arithmetic!) 140,000 characters/160 pages = 875 char/page. 1 inch = 25.4 millimeters, so the area of a page is 2.5 in * 2 in = 2.5*25.4 mm * 2*25.4 mm = 3225.8 sq mm, so the area of each character is no more than 3225.8/875 = 3.69 sq mm, which is a square (Chinese characters fill a square space) of side sqrt(3.69 sq mm) = 1.9 mm on a side. Is your eyesight good enough to read a character that is less than 2 mm high and wide? And is your pinhead calligraphy good enough to prepare a cheat-sheet in which you can fit the 15-stroke character 賞 (which means "prize") inside a 2x2-mm square?

    The other cheat-sheet book has 1 million characters on a page of area about 3x3 inches = 9 square inches, leaving 9*10-6 sq in per character. This means fitting each character into a square of side 3*10^-3 inches =.003 inch * .00254 m/inch = 7.62*10^-6 m = 7.62 micrometers. That's pretty tiny.

    Typical journalistic innumeracy. Most reporters were English majors for a reason.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  54. @Kyle
    Uber bans tipping.
    It's cashless for female safety.

    Uber doesn’t ban tipping; it just doesn’t facilitate it via the app (as Lyft does). You can tip Uber drivers in cash. Maybe 10% of riders did when I drove for Uber, and Uber’s welcome video explicitly said drivers were free to accept tips (though not to solicit for them).

    Not sure what any of this has to do with female safety.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  55. Cheating takes just as much preparation and intelligence as studying.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  56. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve wondered why no one has pointed this out before, but it’s blindingly obvious to me that there is a long-standing culture of exam taking in Chinese students, for the same reasons as stated. In the academically selective high schools in Sydney, Australia, where I work, the percentage of students of Chinese background is approx. 85%. The remainder are split fairly evenly between those of Indian, Korean, and Caucasian/european backgrounds. To gain entry to such schools there is a competitive exam, which the Chinese kiddies are tutored in from kindergarten age. At other end of the pipeline they are tutored very extensively (5+ hours a week) in order to slam-dunk the public end of high school exam that determines whether you get into medicine, law, or the various combinations like commerce/law at Australia’s top universities. (You need a score of 99.95 to guarantee entry into the most in-demand courses).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe

    To gain entry to such schools there is a competitive exam, which the Chinese kiddies are tutored in from kindergarten age.
     
    Isn't the real issue just the fact that there are so many more Chinese and India people? It is hard to compete for the top spots in such a large group. However Australia has something like 25 million. Assuming that the immigrants that Australia is willing to take are drawn from the top of Chinese population, then it isn't surprising they are easily competitive. I mean it is based on how many qualified people competing for how many spots.

    In the USA there has been much derision for teaching to the test. Do you think that is a valid criticism? Wouldn't pretty much the same distribution result if students were selected based on end of course exams? I think England has some system like that.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  57. @Oldeguy
    "and am starting to wonder if they would dramatically underperform in college" "They are still able to do well, acquiring information , then promptly forgetting it "
    Really ? In those very STEM heavy schools and courses in which they are so grotesquely over-represented ?
    70% of the Cal Tech under-grad student body is promptly forgetting course content the day after each final as they progress up the ladder from foundational to sub-specialized course work ?
    Please don't misunderstand; a Social Justice Warrior, I sure as hell ain't but I frankly find that to be incredible.

    “70% of the Cal Tech under-grad student body is promptly forgetting course content the day after each final as they progress up the ladder from foundational to sub-specialized course work ?”

    You know what’s really odd about Caltech? I really can’t think of a single really important figure that went to school there.

    They’ve been around quite a while (Steve has written about Jack Parsons a time or two). But I can’t think of a single Nobel prize winner, a single important innovator of any sort who went to school there.

    Anyone got anything? I’m drawing a blank. My grad school days ended a long time ago, but even then I saw lots of things done by the “usual suspects,” Berkeley, Michigan, etc.

    They’ve been using this system a long time. But as Reagan put it, “Where’s the beef?”

    Maybe I’m wrong, if so someone will point out important work done by Caltech grads, or a notable figure in a scientific or engineering field. But me, I got nothin’ on these guys.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Institute_of_Technology#Alumni
    , @SFG
    Thanks to Steve...but you probably have a point in that they don't seem to have done a great job of promoting themselves.
    , @Oldeguy
    Steve beat me to it- see his reply to you below.
    Cal Tech is, of course, one the most highly regarded and most selective Universities in the world.
    They don't self promote because their truly astounding array of stars numbered among their alumni speaks for itself.
    , @Formerly CARealist
    I have relatives (in-laws) who went there. Four in fact. All of them are financially and socially quite successful. You would love any of their lives and careers (perhaps your life is wonderful too). My son will apply there.

    Wasn't Feynman at Caltech, among other places?
    , @Jean Cocteausten
    You may have heard of Gordon Moore, a son of the San Mateo County Deputy Sheriff, who went on to some distinction in the electronics field.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  58. @Sunbeam
    "70% of the Cal Tech under-grad student body is promptly forgetting course content the day after each final as they progress up the ladder from foundational to sub-specialized course work ?"

    You know what's really odd about Caltech? I really can't think of a single really important figure that went to school there.

    They've been around quite a while (Steve has written about Jack Parsons a time or two). But I can't think of a single Nobel prize winner, a single important innovator of any sort who went to school there.

    Anyone got anything? I'm drawing a blank. My grad school days ended a long time ago, but even then I saw lots of things done by the "usual suspects," Berkeley, Michigan, etc.

    They've been using this system a long time. But as Reagan put it, "Where's the beef?"

    Maybe I'm wrong, if so someone will point out important work done by Caltech grads, or a notable figure in a scientific or engineering field. But me, I got nothin' on these guys.
    Read More
    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    Hmmm wasn't aware Mandelbrot had gone there. I always thought he was some kind of European Ecole product or something.

    Looking at that list there are some other surprising names - in that I didn't know there was a connection to Caltech. For example McCarthy and Knuth. Though some of these guys are even more surprising like Frank Capra.

    But...

    1) I don't know the size of Cambridge, but I imagine that a similar list of famous alums from there would go on for - pages and pages.

    2) Maybe some of these guys are hidden in a sense. Maybe a lot of the undergrads go on to other institutions and do their grad work at other schools? Whatever makes them well known is done at other schools and published while they are there?

    MIT has really incredible facilities, and a humongous research budget. Which in the end comes from Uncle Sam for the most part, though I imagine corporate support is actually a big deal there, which it isn't at most schools. It isn't really discussed much, but without NSF and DoD grants a whole lot of schools wouldn't be doing much research.

    Whereas while Caltech has graduate programs, I always gathered they weren't really a research school (and much smaller to boot) than the other big names.

    3) Most of those names have been around for a long, long time. Where are the new guys?

    If the students at Caltech are superintelligent denizens from the high IQ end of the bell curve, shouldn't they be more prominent or something?

    I'm not trying to be a devil's advocate or anything, but when I was in grad school, I'd read journals and see endless reams of stuff being done at Berkeley, Stanford, Michigan, MIT, Minnesota (most of the midwest schools were really prominent in technology). Heck I remember pulling some proceedings from the Royal Society

    I can't remember ever reading a single paper written at Caltech.

    Just saying if these guys are "Nature's Noblemen," the best and brightest... I dunno, I just expect more.
    , @carol
    No Neil DeGrasse Tysons in the lot eh?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  59. I forget who is who:

    a) I included a bunch of links, but I now see that I didn’t say in the comment “not all Asians”. So: not all Asians, of course.

    b) CalTech has tremendous cheating problems that they’re only now starting to discuss.

    c) I am untroubled by the fact that the “Asian” IQ is higher than white IQs, on average,and am perfectly willing to believe that it is “higher” in the way we whites think of high IQ. What I don’t know is the correlation between IQ and test performance and this sort of behavior. Is it “on average”? Is it just one particular type? Don’t know. I do know any number of spectacularly, genuinely bright East and South Asians. I also know Asians with 2400 SAT scores who weren’t even remotely capable of displaying that type of intelligence.

    d) I am not a conservative, and not a white nationalist. I am a nationalist, though.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome


    I am untroubled by the fact that the “Asian” IQ is higher than white IQs, on average

     

    When gathering these averages, what counts as "white"? Would a Saudi Arabian or Pakistani count as "white" in these stastistics?
    , @Oldeguy
    70% of their student body caught cheating ?
    Wow, that should open a whole lot of seats for non-Asian heritage applicants !
    , @JohnnyWalker123
    Professor James Flynn has done extensive analysis of IQ tests done on different ethnic groups. He estimated that for the descendants of Chinese and Japanese immigrants that arrived in the early 20th century, their mean IQ is 98.5.

    Interestingly, he noted that their test scores and educational credentials are much more impressive than raw IQ alone would predict.

    Ron Unz wrote a good article on "How Social Darwinism Made Modern China." His main point was that the severe economic pressures of daily life selected against peasants who weren't extremely frugal, industrious, and tenacious. So perhaps it's not surprising that their modern descendants are more academically diligent than other ethnic groups.

    http://www.unz.com/article/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/

    http://www.unz.com/runz/china-chinese-eugenics/
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  60. Seriously, SAT testing is ridiculous. Multiple choice answers for college admission, really? People who are meant to go to college will ace this, no sweat even raised. Any further discussion is inappropriate.

    How about baccalauréat-style testing. You get the questions, you get a blank sheet of paper, you get 2 hours per subject. To show language proficiency and analytical skills, please write a three page exposition on whatever (Aldous Huxley meant with some citation taken from “Brave New World” or some similar open-ended question). Any grammatical error or bad use of vocabulary will set you back. Math means doing graphs by hand, and jockeying integrals, derivatives and complex numbers with no reference material allowed. You also need to actually explain how you solved the problem. Note that you have to “work forward” towards an unknown answer so proceeding by elimination is right out. You need to have at least 50% of the maximum score to pass, possibly more for university acceptance (depends). You can just retry once (i.e. “next year”).

    Problem, student?

    Pass the nerve pills!

    Grading a student’s work is of course very work-intensive and in fact an open-ended affair. It risks raising discussion about “fairness” and “objectivity”, but then (hopefully) there are the test scores from the last few months which can be used as reference, should the need arise.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    The French baccalauréat is meaningless. Nearly 90 percent of the people who sit for the exam in France pass. (In France passing the baccalauréat guarantees university admission).

    In the United States a student can fail their International Baccalaureate exams and still graduate high school and go to college with no problem.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/1983/0622/062204.html
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  61. @Anonymous Nephew
    One-comment poster seems never to have read Ed R's blog.

    (@FKA Max - while there may well be corruption in, say, Japan, would you rather be a lost Indian tourist in Tokyo or in DC?)

    Tokyo is an extremely safe city.

    Homicide rate is 0.4 per 100,000. I’d assume those are mainly foreigners and Yakuza.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  62. It isn’t all that hard to make a good proxy for IQ test if you have many thousands of subjects.

    One of the ETS’s major problems is that it tries very carefully to make all SAT tests be of roughly equal difficulty. That’s a nice feature for a test like the SAT to have, but it requires a lot of careful analysis of each question to see how difficult it will be, and that includes testing it out to see how answers to the question correlate to SAT scores of actual SAT takers.

    If they drop that goal, or at least de-prioritize having various SAT tests be of comparable difficulty, then all the effort can be avoided. And the massive review of questions before they are used seems to be the source of security lapses. It is also the reason they like to reuse questions. It isn’t that it is hard to write the questions, but once they have spent all that time evaluating them, they want to use them more than once.

    As for a proposal for 10,000 public questions, this underestimates the dedication of parents who send their kids to asian style cram schools.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  63. education realist always comments on these types of posts and even has a blog dedicated to the subject. I also found out this guy’s child did not do well in school and he takes out a lot of his anger/resentment over that on Asians.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  64. @education realist
    I forget who is who:

    a) I included a bunch of links, but I now see that I didn't say in the comment "not all Asians". So: not all Asians, of course.

    b) CalTech has tremendous cheating problems that they're only now starting to discuss.

    c) I am untroubled by the fact that the "Asian" IQ is higher than white IQs, on average,and am perfectly willing to believe that it is "higher" in the way we whites think of high IQ. What I don't know is the correlation between IQ and test performance and this sort of behavior. Is it "on average"? Is it just one particular type? Don't know. I do know any number of spectacularly, genuinely bright East and South Asians. I also know Asians with 2400 SAT scores who weren't even remotely capable of displaying that type of intelligence.

    d) I am not a conservative, and not a white nationalist. I am a nationalist, though.

    I am untroubled by the fact that the “Asian” IQ is higher than white IQs, on average

    When gathering these averages, what counts as “white”? Would a Saudi Arabian or Pakistani count as “white” in these stastistics?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  65. @Sunbeam
    "70% of the Cal Tech under-grad student body is promptly forgetting course content the day after each final as they progress up the ladder from foundational to sub-specialized course work ?"

    You know what's really odd about Caltech? I really can't think of a single really important figure that went to school there.

    They've been around quite a while (Steve has written about Jack Parsons a time or two). But I can't think of a single Nobel prize winner, a single important innovator of any sort who went to school there.

    Anyone got anything? I'm drawing a blank. My grad school days ended a long time ago, but even then I saw lots of things done by the "usual suspects," Berkeley, Michigan, etc.

    They've been using this system a long time. But as Reagan put it, "Where's the beef?"

    Maybe I'm wrong, if so someone will point out important work done by Caltech grads, or a notable figure in a scientific or engineering field. But me, I got nothin' on these guys.

    Thanks to Steve…but you probably have a point in that they don’t seem to have done a great job of promoting themselves.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  66. Not a single one of the 21 Caltech alums pictured in that Wikipedia article has a BS degree more recent than 1967. A good year in science, but about two generations ago. I would not go to Caltech if I were 18 again and had outstanding math ability – it has, rightly or wrongly, a reputation of being an overly Prussian-influenced, overly hierarchical comic-opera version of a big school with too many smart badly-dressed kids (I learned that not just from the Big Bang theory but also from some smart geometricians). What really smart young scientist wants to waste 3 or 4 of his or her most creative years in that environment?Plus they charge undergrad tuition, which if they were as elite as some people claim, they would not have to do (I can understand charging for room and board and gym and cotillion fees, but why not just teach for free, at this point, and ask for an honest promise to send in alumni donations later on to cover the next generation’s “tuition”? “Pay it forward” is not that difficult of a concept.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I was walking across the Caltech campus once and a sophomore coed was leading a tour of prospective students parents. Somebody asked if Caltech was hard and the guide broke into tears.
    , @5371
    [overly Prussian-influenced, overly hierarchical comic-opera version of a big school]

    It's a very small school, located in southern California.

    [What really smart young scientist wants to waste 3 or 4 of his or her most creative years in that environment]

    Smart scientists don't go to college to learn, right? They go there to party with the rich and participate in Black Lives Matter.
    , @artichoke
    I've scanned through and not seen the following big fat fact mentioned in the comments. It was discussed in magazine articles and probably even posts here, six months or so ago.

    In China and other overseas locations, they get the same exams as we have here, but with a delay of several weeks! Not always, or maybe it's hard to tell which exam is going to be repeated for you, but they seem not to write new questions for overseas administrations.

    This could be justified by saving money and even having a guaranteed equivalent test for comparing students. Fine.

    But then, why don't they give the overseas administrations within the same 24 hour period as the US administrations of the same tests? It's so easy to do this, it's just obvious.

    Instead the overseas administrations are delayed by enough time, for test prep centers to pick up the questions from US and let overseas kids see them first.

    College Board obviously wants overseas kids to be able to cheat and have an advantage over US kids.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  67. @education realist
    I forget who is who:

    a) I included a bunch of links, but I now see that I didn't say in the comment "not all Asians". So: not all Asians, of course.

    b) CalTech has tremendous cheating problems that they're only now starting to discuss.

    c) I am untroubled by the fact that the "Asian" IQ is higher than white IQs, on average,and am perfectly willing to believe that it is "higher" in the way we whites think of high IQ. What I don't know is the correlation between IQ and test performance and this sort of behavior. Is it "on average"? Is it just one particular type? Don't know. I do know any number of spectacularly, genuinely bright East and South Asians. I also know Asians with 2400 SAT scores who weren't even remotely capable of displaying that type of intelligence.

    d) I am not a conservative, and not a white nationalist. I am a nationalist, though.

    70% of their student body caught cheating ?
    Wow, that should open a whole lot of seats for non-Asian heritage applicants !

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  68. @Sunbeam
    "70% of the Cal Tech under-grad student body is promptly forgetting course content the day after each final as they progress up the ladder from foundational to sub-specialized course work ?"

    You know what's really odd about Caltech? I really can't think of a single really important figure that went to school there.

    They've been around quite a while (Steve has written about Jack Parsons a time or two). But I can't think of a single Nobel prize winner, a single important innovator of any sort who went to school there.

    Anyone got anything? I'm drawing a blank. My grad school days ended a long time ago, but even then I saw lots of things done by the "usual suspects," Berkeley, Michigan, etc.

    They've been using this system a long time. But as Reagan put it, "Where's the beef?"

    Maybe I'm wrong, if so someone will point out important work done by Caltech grads, or a notable figure in a scientific or engineering field. But me, I got nothin' on these guys.

    Steve beat me to it- see his reply to you below.
    Cal Tech is, of course, one the most highly regarded and most selective Universities in the world.
    They don’t self promote because their truly astounding array of stars numbered among their alumni speaks for itself.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    They don’t self promote because their truly astounding array of stars numbered among their alumni speaks for itself.
     
    Not many Asians there in the Hall of Fame.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  69. @Hippopotamusdrome


    Ancient Chinese 'cheat sheets' discovered
    ...
    One of the texts, discovered in Qingdao, is thought to be the smallest book ever found in Eastern China. The 160 page text is two-and-a-half inches long and under two inches wide and can fit into a matchbox. It contains 140,000 characters drawn from exam texts.

    The other book, found on the southern island of Hainan, is slightly larger but contains 32 million characters over 32 pages.

     

    One of the texts, discovered in Qingdao, is thought to be the smallest book ever found in Eastern China. The 160 page text is two-and-a-half inches long and under two inches wide and can fit into a matchbox.

    Given those dimensions, I think it was designed to fit into something other than a matchbook.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  70. @Connecticut Famer
    Looking back to when I took the SAT in the mid-Sixties as a kid from rural upper NY State, I myself might very well have passed on the "regatta" question or at least might have had to take a guess. The SAT, as I understand its traditional purpose, was never designed to be an IQ test. The protests against such as the "regatta-type question" would seem to underscore the argument that the tests are, or can be, culturally biased. Would an Inuit Eskimo from north of the Arctic Circle necessarily know the meaning of "cactus is to desert as...?" Or, for that matter, would he/she have even known the definition of a "regatta?" I mean, there isn't much cactus in the arctic, right?

    The point is, if the SAT wasn't meant to be designed to measure IQ--and it looks to me as though Dr. Conant's thinking is a bit muddled on this subject-- then exactly what DOES it measure?

    , I myself might very well have passed on the “regatta” question

    Regatta. Etymology: From Venetian regata (“contention for mastery”), from regatare (“compete, haggle, sell at retail”), possibly from recatare.

    Shouldn’t that be culturally biased in favor of Italians?

    Would an Inuit Eskimo from north of the Arctic Circle necessarily know the meaning of “cactus is to desert as…?”

    Do you live in a desert? If not, how do you know what a cactus is? How do you know what an igloo, polar bear, penguin, kayak, iceberg and dog sled are if you don’t live in the Arctic Circle?

    Do you know what continent a kangaroo, digeridoo, and boomerang would be found. Would such questions be culturally biased against Americans?

    Banana tree is to rainforest … Do you need to live in the rainforest to know?

    On the topic of boat races, can you name the people who sail in a trireme, galleon, junk, longship, outrigger canoe, kayak, currach and cog respectively?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Connecticut Famer
    I am asking: Does the SAT measures the test-taker's verbal and math levels. Or does it measure how "intelligent" he/she is. It is supposed to measure the former, not the latter. The SAT was never meant to be an IQ test (i.e. the equivalent of the Stanford-Binet). However, as suggested in the Lehmann excerpt referred to above, in fact that is how it is treated. And that, precisely, is the problem which gives rise to such controversies as the "Regatta-type question" , which clearly assumes significance because it implies that a person of limited access to the wider world (or possibly none) --our Inuit Eskimo for example--is not "intelligent" when his/her experience does not take into account the existence of such as cacti and deserts. That has been the argument made by the SJW crowd in justifying changing the SAT. I hate to state the obvious but nevertheless it has to be said: Education and intelligence are not the same thing. A person who is highly intelligent may not have sufficient education (both on the classroom level and life experience level) to do college work. The SJW crowd may have a point about the Regatta question, but it is what it is and to allow kids to attend college who are demonstrably unable to handle college-level classwork, regardless of how much raw intelligence they may, have is definitely not a solution to a problem that may in the long run be insoluble.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  71. @Anonymous
    About a generation ago, about 80% to 90% of China's population were farmers, largely illiterate despite the usual communist proclamations about universal literacy. Today China is about half urbanized.

    Many American universities, including state universities, claim to be "world universities" that effectively represent the entire world and diversity within America. With or without cheating, it's impossible to do this without quotas. Obviously the quotas have to be maintained or restricted even further. Presumably Asian scores will continue to rise, via cheating and non-cheating, as they're competing amongst each other for the highest scores, and the competition is becoming intensified.

    Presumably Asian scores will continue to rise …

    The 2016 revision of the SAT has resulted in higher scores. Asians had an average math score of 598 on the old version, which will be about 645 on the new version. It will probably be a year before College Board releases SAT scores by race.

    I think that the elite colleges wanted more perfect scores. If perfect scores are a dime a dozen then applicants are less likely to complain or sue when they get rejected.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe

    To gain entry to such schools there is a competitive exam, which the Chinese kiddies are tutored in from kindergarten age.
     
    Isn't the real issue just the fact that there are so many more Chinese and India people? It is hard to compete for the top spots in such a large group. However Australia has something like 25 million. Assuming that the immigrants that Australia is willing to take are drawn from the top of Chinese population, then it isn't surprising they are easily competitive. I mean it is based on how many qualified people competing for how many spots.

    In the USA there has been much derision for teaching to the test. Do you think that is a valid criticism? Wouldn't pretty much the same distribution result if students were selected based on end of course exams? I think England has some system like that.
    , @Joe Schmoe

    I think that the elite colleges wanted more perfect scores. If perfect scores are a dime a dozen then applicants are less likely to complain or sue when they get rejected.
     
    That is interesting given that 800's on Math were far more numerous than 790's. So, the SAT already had an obvious ceiling.

    The college board website used to have the tables that listed how many test takers achieved a given score on each of the sections. I can no longer find it on their site. Now all I can find are mean scores or listed by percentile.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  72. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Asians? College admission tests have been gamed by The Tribe from the beginning.

    There is a testing mafia in the northeast. Below is one quote from the article but understand “reusing questions” is just the tip of the iceberg. The insiders leak huge amounts of answers to favored disseminators. It’s a large crooked network and your dumb kid can get much better scores if plugged in. Your slightly above average kid can score genius level. And at the same the media trumpets that “test preparation” doesn’t really help scores!

    Sen. Chuck Schumer and many other American mediocrities have perfect SAT scores on their resumes. Figure it out.

    The SAT has proved particularly vulnerable … Test-preparation companies obtain previously administered questions that are scheduled for reuse and feed those questions to students, who can score higher by practicing on the exam items before the test.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I was never "plugged in", but I did prep on my own like crazy for standardized tests, which involved practicing and analyzing thousands of old test questions, some of which were re-used almost word for word on the actual test. So, I suppose if one were really dedicated, with a high tolerance for tedium, one could replicate the advantages that the "plugged-in" people had.
    , @artichoke
    Definitely not Kaplan, which everyone has and doesn't even use actual test questions. Summit? What's the right company to buy a prep course from?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  73. @Steve Sailer
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Institute_of_Technology#Alumni

    Hmmm wasn’t aware Mandelbrot had gone there. I always thought he was some kind of European Ecole product or something.

    Looking at that list there are some other surprising names – in that I didn’t know there was a connection to Caltech. For example McCarthy and Knuth. Though some of these guys are even more surprising like Frank Capra.

    But…

    1) I don’t know the size of Cambridge, but I imagine that a similar list of famous alums from there would go on for – pages and pages.

    2) Maybe some of these guys are hidden in a sense. Maybe a lot of the undergrads go on to other institutions and do their grad work at other schools? Whatever makes them well known is done at other schools and published while they are there?

    MIT has really incredible facilities, and a humongous research budget. Which in the end comes from Uncle Sam for the most part, though I imagine corporate support is actually a big deal there, which it isn’t at most schools. It isn’t really discussed much, but without NSF and DoD grants a whole lot of schools wouldn’t be doing much research.

    Whereas while Caltech has graduate programs, I always gathered they weren’t really a research school (and much smaller to boot) than the other big names.

    3) Most of those names have been around for a long, long time. Where are the new guys?

    If the students at Caltech are superintelligent denizens from the high IQ end of the bell curve, shouldn’t they be more prominent or something?

    I’m not trying to be a devil’s advocate or anything, but when I was in grad school, I’d read journals and see endless reams of stuff being done at Berkeley, Stanford, Michigan, MIT, Minnesota (most of the midwest schools were really prominent in technology). Heck I remember pulling some proceedings from the Royal Society

    I can’t remember ever reading a single paper written at Caltech.

    Just saying if these guys are “Nature’s Noblemen,” the best and brightest… I dunno, I just expect more.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "I don’t know the size of Cambridge, but I imagine that a similar list of famous alums from there would go on for – pages and pages."

    Cambridge and Oxford are more like university systems.

    , @PiltdownMan

    I don’t know the size of Cambridge, but I imagine that a similar list of famous alums from there would go on for – pages and pages.
     
    This is hardly surprising, as Cambridge was founded in 1209 and has a 700 year headstart on Caltech, in addition to having about eight times as many students, and 31 constituent colleges. As Steve correctly points out, Cambridge is similar to a university system in the US, like CUNY. A fairer comparison would be to look at Caltech vs. Trinity College, Cambridge in the 20th century, and I daresay Caltech would do very well.

    Remember, too, that Caltech is primarily an engineering school and not a pure science school, unlike, say Princeton, which is strong in both. Engineers don't win many Nobels for their work, no matter how revolutionary. Perhaps this is why it appears that Caltech's actual output seems short of its extraordinary reputation for being a den of very brainy people.

    , @biz

    Whereas while Caltech has graduate programs, I always gathered they weren’t really a research school (and much smaller to boot) than the other big names.
     
    This would be incorrect. Like every other R1 university, Caltech's primary mission is research.
    , @Triumph104

    You know what’s really odd about Caltech? I really can’t think of a single really important figure that went to school there.
     
    I clicked on just one name on the alumni page and it turns out that Ahmed Zewail never attended Caltech, although he was a professor at the university. He died earlier this month.


    If the students at Caltech are superintelligent denizens from the high IQ end of the bell curve, shouldn’t they be more prominent or something?
     
    No. High IQ doesn't equate to prominence. I'm sure there are more prominent graduates from Morehouse.

    If you mean prominent in the field of science, the problem with Caltech is too many smart people in one place so it is next to impossible to shine. A study has shown that a grad student is more likely to have research published if they attend a mid-level university than if that same student attended an elite university. A big fish in a small pond gets more opportunities.

    Caltech's admissions policy or faculty culture may be factor, but I don't know. MIT admits a higher percentage of women so more affirmative action. Both of NPR's The Car Guys are MIT graduates, plus a current NFL player is a part-time math PhD candidate, prominent for different reasons.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  74. @Hacienda
    Okay. No problems with that. But don't pretend to be a "realist", then. If you don't want Asians at MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, Caltech, just say so. Don't pretend like you're smarter than them.

    Okay. No problems with that. But don’t pretend to be a “realist”, then. If you don’t want Asians at MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, Caltech, just say so. Don’t pretend like you’re smarter than them.

    Oh, hell yeah! If you don’t like corruption, just ignore it!!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hacienda
    Naw. A couple of years ago I and ER had a run around on this issue.
    I'm as curious about how much cheating goes on too. And if Asians
    are as poor with mathematical reasoning as ER states in spite of
    the scores.

    I pressed ER for evidence and ER admitted that he wasn't a "facts person" but more a feelz person on this matter and came up with no solid numbers or evidence
    to support his claims. So it's always the same here. Steve posts
    about Asians cheating the tests. ER comes in and drops a ton of accusations
    followed by number of me too posts and the needle never moves.
    We never find out how much Asian cheating
    happens and the actual quantity of test prepping that goes on or whether
    the test scores overestimate Asian ability. This even though Asians outperform
    on achievement type standardized tests like the SAT II, also. But ER surely has
    the intuitions to explain away these tests too, right. Like Asians forgot
    their subjects as soon as the proctor calls time.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  75. @Sunbeam
    "70% of the Cal Tech under-grad student body is promptly forgetting course content the day after each final as they progress up the ladder from foundational to sub-specialized course work ?"

    You know what's really odd about Caltech? I really can't think of a single really important figure that went to school there.

    They've been around quite a while (Steve has written about Jack Parsons a time or two). But I can't think of a single Nobel prize winner, a single important innovator of any sort who went to school there.

    Anyone got anything? I'm drawing a blank. My grad school days ended a long time ago, but even then I saw lots of things done by the "usual suspects," Berkeley, Michigan, etc.

    They've been using this system a long time. But as Reagan put it, "Where's the beef?"

    Maybe I'm wrong, if so someone will point out important work done by Caltech grads, or a notable figure in a scientific or engineering field. But me, I got nothin' on these guys.

    I have relatives (in-laws) who went there. Four in fact. All of them are financially and socially quite successful. You would love any of their lives and careers (perhaps your life is wonderful too). My son will apply there.

    Wasn’t Feynman at Caltech, among other places?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    He spent a year or so there in the 60's.

    I used to have a copy of his lectures on physics (that was the title or something like it). This was a collection of his lectures and problem sets to the FRESHMAN class (if memory serves). Again if my memory is correct it was a set of three or so books; my version was softback with some kind of brilliant orange cover.

    When I had these, it was trivial for me to read and work through problems for a first physics course, something like the Halliday and Resnick text that's been around a long time and was popular at a lot of schools.

    Couldn't do much with the Feynman lectures or his problem sets. Looking back it seems to me that he thought of subjects I was very familiar with in very different ways than I was used to.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  76. @El Dato
    Seriously, SAT testing is ridiculous. Multiple choice answers for college admission, really? People who are meant to go to college will ace this, no sweat even raised. Any further discussion is inappropriate.

    How about baccalauréat-style testing. You get the questions, you get a blank sheet of paper, you get 2 hours per subject. To show language proficiency and analytical skills, please write a three page exposition on whatever (Aldous Huxley meant with some citation taken from "Brave New World" or some similar open-ended question). Any grammatical error or bad use of vocabulary will set you back. Math means doing graphs by hand, and jockeying integrals, derivatives and complex numbers with no reference material allowed. You also need to actually explain how you solved the problem. Note that you have to "work forward" towards an unknown answer so proceeding by elimination is right out. You need to have at least 50% of the maximum score to pass, possibly more for university acceptance (depends). You can just retry once (i.e. "next year").

    Problem, student?

    Pass the nerve pills!

    Grading a student's work is of course very work-intensive and in fact an open-ended affair. It risks raising discussion about "fairness" and "objectivity", but then (hopefully) there are the test scores from the last few months which can be used as reference, should the need arise.

    The French baccalauréat is meaningless. Nearly 90 percent of the people who sit for the exam in France pass. (In France passing the baccalauréat guarantees university admission).

    In the United States a student can fail their International Baccalaureate exams and still graduate high school and go to college with no problem.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/1983/0622/062204.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    In the United States a student can fail their International Baccalaureate exams and still graduate high school and go to college with no problem.
     
    The International Baccalaureate or IB, a program designed for the last two years of high school, has nothing to do with the French baccalauréat which is now sclerotic. While the IB has acquired its cachet in the last decade by reason of having been adopted by numerous international schools overseas populated by the high achieving children of professional expatriates, almost 2/3 of the students in the IB system are US based.

    The IB is offered in two versions, the non-diploma course which has no final exams, and the diploma version, which rigorously tests the students on the entirety of the high-school syllabus in a series of 12 to 15 two hour exams.

    US colleges like the IB and value it more than the AP, but make their admissions decisions well before the final written essay-style IB exams which are taken by the student in May, at the end of the final term of high school.

    Accordingly, IB scores, which really separate the wheat from the chaff, academically speaking, are not considered by US colleges-just the coursework and in-class grades. That's their loss, and not a flaw of the IB syllabus or system. Many US colleges do give credit for good grades in the IB exam results though, with Harvard offering potentially an exemption of up to 18 credits, depending on the scores achieved.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  77. @education realist
    Razib always asks a reasonable question at this point--namely, shouldn't Asian Americans (as opposed to international students) underperform in college? They do, but it's not huge. Here's a study: http://jcc.sagepub.com/content/22/3/403.abstract Razib argues that this is due to the fact that Asians enter tech fields at parents bidding. That may be true.

    But in any event, I've been thinking on this for a while, and developing my own additional knowledge of Asian American students here and am starting to wondef if they *would* dramatically underperform in college (outright cheating, buying SAT scores is different). They will still be able to do well, acquiring information and then promptly forgetting it.

    What it means, again, is that our entire school and testing system isn't geared towards this. We've always acknowledged the possibility, because this sort of behavior does exist in whites, but it's incredibly less common. (again, blacks, Hispanics also possible.)

    I just did some work with the upper level math teachers at my school. We're developing common quick assessments for district wide initiatives. I suggested that we not only do the assessments instantly after our lesson, to determine initial comprehension, but we randomly issue new generated version of the same quizzes at later dates, without preparation, to see how retention goes. I expected pushback, but all the teachers agreed that we were having increasing problems with kids learning and forgetting. (that is, our Asian population at the school is increasing.)

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  78. @Sunbeam
    Hmmm wasn't aware Mandelbrot had gone there. I always thought he was some kind of European Ecole product or something.

    Looking at that list there are some other surprising names - in that I didn't know there was a connection to Caltech. For example McCarthy and Knuth. Though some of these guys are even more surprising like Frank Capra.

    But...

    1) I don't know the size of Cambridge, but I imagine that a similar list of famous alums from there would go on for - pages and pages.

    2) Maybe some of these guys are hidden in a sense. Maybe a lot of the undergrads go on to other institutions and do their grad work at other schools? Whatever makes them well known is done at other schools and published while they are there?

    MIT has really incredible facilities, and a humongous research budget. Which in the end comes from Uncle Sam for the most part, though I imagine corporate support is actually a big deal there, which it isn't at most schools. It isn't really discussed much, but without NSF and DoD grants a whole lot of schools wouldn't be doing much research.

    Whereas while Caltech has graduate programs, I always gathered they weren't really a research school (and much smaller to boot) than the other big names.

    3) Most of those names have been around for a long, long time. Where are the new guys?

    If the students at Caltech are superintelligent denizens from the high IQ end of the bell curve, shouldn't they be more prominent or something?

    I'm not trying to be a devil's advocate or anything, but when I was in grad school, I'd read journals and see endless reams of stuff being done at Berkeley, Stanford, Michigan, MIT, Minnesota (most of the midwest schools were really prominent in technology). Heck I remember pulling some proceedings from the Royal Society

    I can't remember ever reading a single paper written at Caltech.

    Just saying if these guys are "Nature's Noblemen," the best and brightest... I dunno, I just expect more.

    “I don’t know the size of Cambridge, but I imagine that a similar list of famous alums from there would go on for – pages and pages.”

    Cambridge and Oxford are more like university systems.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  79. @middle aged vet
    Not a single one of the 21 Caltech alums pictured in that Wikipedia article has a BS degree more recent than 1967. A good year in science, but about two generations ago. I would not go to Caltech if I were 18 again and had outstanding math ability - it has, rightly or wrongly, a reputation of being an overly Prussian-influenced, overly hierarchical comic-opera version of a big school with too many smart badly-dressed kids (I learned that not just from the Big Bang theory but also from some smart geometricians). What really smart young scientist wants to waste 3 or 4 of his or her most creative years in that environment?Plus they charge undergrad tuition, which if they were as elite as some people claim, they would not have to do (I can understand charging for room and board and gym and cotillion fees, but why not just teach for free, at this point, and ask for an honest promise to send in alumni donations later on to cover the next generation's "tuition"? "Pay it forward" is not that difficult of a concept.)

    I was walking across the Caltech campus once and a sophomore coed was leading a tour of prospective students parents. Somebody asked if Caltech was hard and the guide broke into tears.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It's almost three times as easy to get into CalTech as a female than as a male (16% vs 6%). And that probably understates the difference between the applicant pools—although CalTech doesn't publish a breakdown by sexes of average scores on the SAT, Subject Tests, APs, as well as which sex got what percentage of the most prestigious awards (international math and science Olympiad participation, Intel Science, etc), it seems likely that these are all much higher among admitted males than females. Thus, CalTech (and MIT, Harvey Mudd, etc) offer white and Asian females one of their very few chances at affirmative action in college admissions. If you've read Mismatch, you'll know this isn't always a good thing.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  80. @Anon
    "Most famously or notoriously, he was central to Harry Truman’s decision to drop the Bomb on Hiroshima."

    He was central in more ways than one. He was doctoral advisor of Louis Fieser.

    "A team of chemists led by Louis Fieser at Harvard University was the first to develop synthetic napalm, during 1942.[4] "The production of napalm was first entrusted to Nuodex Products, and by the middle of April 1942 they had developed a brown, dry powder that was not sticky by itself, but when mixed with gasoline turned into an extremely sticky and inflammable substance." One of Fieser's colleagues suggested adding phosphorus to the mix which increased the "ability to penetrate deeply...into the musculature, where it would continue to burn day after day."[5]

    On 4 July 1942, the first test occurred on the football field near the Harvard Business School.[5]"

    " the League of Nations act. On September 30, 1938, a unanimous resolution was passed to outlaw "the intentional bombing of civilian populations." Then, on September 1, 1939, at the outbreak of World War II, U.S. President Roosevelt beseeched the belligerents to refrain from the "inhuman barbarism" of bombing civilian centers, acts which had "sickened the hearts of every civilized man and woman," and "profoundly shocked the conscience of humanity.""

    We all know how that went.

    After killing maybe 100,000 Japanese in the firebombing of Tokyo with napalm/incendiary bombs, it was hard to argue that atomic bombs were more inhumane.

    All of which make the notion of a 'bright line' regarding Syrian use of chemical weapons silly. The Russians got us off the hook on that foolish threat. Although it hasn't stopped the US from bombing Syria without any other pretext.

    Call me old fashioned, but I am not particularly impressed with popular notions of barbaric vs civilized death in warfare. I suppose beheading a few Western journalists impressed typical Americans about the depravity of ISIS. However, the NYT's decided to publish a bizarrely detailed article about ISIS rape of Christian 'sex slaves' http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/world/middleeast/to-maintain-supply-of-sex-slaves-isis-pushes-birth-control.html?_r=0

    “She told me, ‘If you are pregnant, we are going to send you back,’” J. said. “They took me into the lab. There were machines that looked like centrifuges and other contraptions. They drew three vials of my blood. About 30 or 40 minutes later, they came back to say I wasn’t pregnant.”

    I find it impossible to believe that these contraceptive obsessed monsters, would be ignorant of the First Response pregnancy test.

    I don't know exactly who was supposed to be moved by the drumbeats/dogwhistles of war. The Pope? FWIW, wouldn't your average sex slave prefer to avoid pregnancy.

    I am beyond off topic at this point.

    Yes, stories like that one about the sex slaves and pregnancy are beyond parody. They are like IS’s internet propaganda, which often seems to be written by jihad-aboos rather than actual Muslims.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  81. @middle aged vet
    Not a single one of the 21 Caltech alums pictured in that Wikipedia article has a BS degree more recent than 1967. A good year in science, but about two generations ago. I would not go to Caltech if I were 18 again and had outstanding math ability - it has, rightly or wrongly, a reputation of being an overly Prussian-influenced, overly hierarchical comic-opera version of a big school with too many smart badly-dressed kids (I learned that not just from the Big Bang theory but also from some smart geometricians). What really smart young scientist wants to waste 3 or 4 of his or her most creative years in that environment?Plus they charge undergrad tuition, which if they were as elite as some people claim, they would not have to do (I can understand charging for room and board and gym and cotillion fees, but why not just teach for free, at this point, and ask for an honest promise to send in alumni donations later on to cover the next generation's "tuition"? "Pay it forward" is not that difficult of a concept.)

    [overly Prussian-influenced, overly hierarchical comic-opera version of a big school]

    It’s a very small school, located in southern California.

    [What really smart young scientist wants to waste 3 or 4 of his or her most creative years in that environment]

    Smart scientists don’t go to college to learn, right? They go there to party with the rich and participate in Black Lives Matter.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  82. @education realist
    I forget who is who:

    a) I included a bunch of links, but I now see that I didn't say in the comment "not all Asians". So: not all Asians, of course.

    b) CalTech has tremendous cheating problems that they're only now starting to discuss.

    c) I am untroubled by the fact that the "Asian" IQ is higher than white IQs, on average,and am perfectly willing to believe that it is "higher" in the way we whites think of high IQ. What I don't know is the correlation between IQ and test performance and this sort of behavior. Is it "on average"? Is it just one particular type? Don't know. I do know any number of spectacularly, genuinely bright East and South Asians. I also know Asians with 2400 SAT scores who weren't even remotely capable of displaying that type of intelligence.

    d) I am not a conservative, and not a white nationalist. I am a nationalist, though.

    Professor James Flynn has done extensive analysis of IQ tests done on different ethnic groups. He estimated that for the descendants of Chinese and Japanese immigrants that arrived in the early 20th century, their mean IQ is 98.5.

    Interestingly, he noted that their test scores and educational credentials are much more impressive than raw IQ alone would predict.

    Ron Unz wrote a good article on “How Social Darwinism Made Modern China.” His main point was that the severe economic pressures of daily life selected against peasants who weren’t extremely frugal, industrious, and tenacious. So perhaps it’s not surprising that their modern descendants are more academically diligent than other ethnic groups.

    http://www.unz.com/article/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/

    http://www.unz.com/runz/china-chinese-eugenics/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Keep in mind that turn of the century Asian immigrants were from the poorest sectors of Asian societies - these were people imported as agricultural labor, ditch diggers, etc. Basically the same niche that Mexicans fill today. If Mexicans have an average IQ equal to their body temperature a century from now, I'll eat my sombrero.

    More recent Asian immigrants tend to arrive with more education than the turn of the century types and I would bet have higher IQ than the older immigrant group.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  83. @John Jeremiah Smith

    Okay. No problems with that. But don’t pretend to be a “realist”, then. If you don’t want Asians at MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, Caltech, just say so. Don’t pretend like you’re smarter than them.
     
    Oh, hell yeah! If you don't like corruption, just ignore it!!

    Naw. A couple of years ago I and ER had a run around on this issue.
    I’m as curious about how much cheating goes on too. And if Asians
    are as poor with mathematical reasoning as ER states in spite of
    the scores.

    I pressed ER for evidence and ER admitted that he wasn’t a “facts person” but more a feelz person on this matter and came up with no solid numbers or evidence
    to support his claims. So it’s always the same here. Steve posts
    about Asians cheating the tests. ER comes in and drops a ton of accusations
    followed by number of me too posts and the needle never moves.
    We never find out how much Asian cheating
    happens and the actual quantity of test prepping that goes on or whether
    the test scores overestimate Asian ability. This even though Asians outperform
    on achievement type standardized tests like the SAT II, also. But ER surely has
    the intuitions to explain away these tests too, right. Like Asians forgot
    their subjects as soon as the proctor calls time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I pressed ER for evidence and ER admitted that he wasn’t a “facts person” but more a feelz person on this matter and came up with no solid numbers or evidence to support his claims. So it’s always the same here. Steve posts about Asians cheating the tests. ER comes in and drops a ton of accusations followed by number of me too posts and the needle never moves. We never find out how much Asian cheating happens and the actual quantity of test prepping that goes on or whether the test scores overestimate Asian ability. This even though Asians outperform on achievement type standardized tests like the SAT II, also. But ER surely has the intuitions to explain away these tests too, right. Like Asians forgot their subjects as soon as the proctor calls time.
     
    I am someone who believes that the level of academic cheating in a given society correlates well with the amount of corruption that exists in that society. Given that fact, it's not at all surprising that there is a significant amount of academic cheating and credential-falsification in, say, China, but much less so in Japan (with South Korea in between the two).

    But the so-called "Education Realist" persistently tries to attach some sort of very broad-brush racial explanation for this particular phenomenon whether warranted or not. A while back, I had my own unfortunate run-in with this person on this blog as well as on Razib Khan's. On the latter, both Mr. Khan and I asked for evidence of mismatch - that is, if Asians in America were cheating in large numbers to gain undeserved university admissions, their subsequent underperformance in college and graduate school (and in professional settings) should be observed easily. This type of mismatch is observed rather obviously, for example, among blacks who become doctors - they benefit from affirmative action to some degree to enter medical school (and get jobs). So, their mismatch - gap between credential and actual performance - shows up in the form of very high Boards failure rates among black doctors.

    When prompted by Mr. Khan and me to provide evidence of mismatch, Education Realist provided a set of links which she claimed contained evidence of such mismatch. Perhaps she thought nobody would call her on her bullshit, but I read through all of the research she cited and the conclusions in them were *contrary* to her claims. When pressed on this rather ridiculous state of affairs, she called me a bunch of names and disappeared and later re-emerged to make the same claims on another thread. Rinse and repeat.

    There is ONE study that seems to show that Asians in American universities have slightly lower averages than whites, but the study does not factor in the subjects of their studies. Given that Asians have much higher concentrations in STEM fields which generally have tougher grading and the consequently lower average grades than other fields, that factor alone would explain the slight GPA gap. Other than that, there is no evidence of mismatch AT ALL.

    Which is why now her claims have shifted from: "most Asians cheat at admissions" to "many Asians cheat at admission" to "they just keep on cheating from high school to college to grad school, hence no mismatch" (good luck cheating at engineering or physics at grad school where it would take a one-minute conversation to expose those who don't deserve to be there) to "I wonder whether...." and ad nauseam. Ultimately, her "evidence" is "don't believe your lying eyes, believe what I say, because, you know, I teach lots of Asian cram school kids."

    And predictably as soon as she posts comments, a series of me-too comments emerges, with the usual "Asians are cheating soulless automatons" tripe.

    I am ethnically Asian, but I love this country above all else but God. I've shed blood for it. And I am of the view that large scale immigration from Asia is not desirable (and I oppose all large-scale immigration from elsewhere too). But opposition to such migration should be based on truthful, rational reasons, not this kind of evidence-deficient fodder.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  84. @ic1000
    Steve, IIRC one of the Presidential candidates recently warned America about the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad ideas and people of this thing that she called the alt-right.

    Why is it that I keep discovering insightful essays on various current events themes (the SAT, Olympic Track & Field, immigration) at iSteve, instead of in the NYT Magazine, etc.?

    Icing on the cake are the informed commenters, in this case including JohnnyWalker123, Jack D, SomethingToSay, Jus' Sayin', Education Realist.

    New readers alerted by that candidate to this dire Phantom Menace should be encouraged to dip into posts like this one. Maybe they'll be as puzzled as I am.

    Thanks.

    I actually check this site almost every day. I think the quality of Steve’s posts is excellent. If you want to learn how the world really works, you’ll learn more here than you would reading the mainstream publications.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  85. @TheJester
    There is another factor in play. The executives who run universities (if you want to call them that) have been able to create the illusion that a university is like a commercial corporation. It has revenue, profits, products, and customers. The executives, then, want to be paid like the officers of major corporations. This was distinctly different when I was at the university in the 1960s. Tuition was low ... and university professors and administrators consciously traded an exceptional lifestyle for monetary gain. Most of my professors lived in very modest middle-class homes.

    Then things changed. Students no longer had to work their way through school ... nor could they. With the advent of, first, liberal government loans and, then, collateral-free commercial loans to students, finding money for a university degree was no longer a problem. At that point, the university administrators (recast as corporate executives) realized they could hike and re-hike tuition and fees into the stratosphere to pay themselves corporate wages ... because the universities' customers (students) could always borrow more money to cover the rising cost of tuition and fees. Soon, the professors got into the game. Now, obscenely-paid university executives and professors constitute an economic elite living in clusters of mansions in gated communities surrounding their universities.

    In short, the university system today does not educate students as its first order of business. It's fairer to say that "its business is business". It financially exploits students ... charging whatever the market will bear.

    This post is exactly correct. Very well said.

    The student loans are generally not even dischargeable in bankruptcy court. So by providing an expensive education to a student, the universities can secure a stream of cash flows for years to come. In some cases, perhaps even decades.

    Of course, much of the third world has been getting wealthier in recent decades. Many of the children of the newly affluent class would like to get a Western degree, as it’ll open up opportunities and even facilitate settling abroad. So universities realized they could charge these students high tuition and have another source of income.

    To make foreign students even more likely to attend university here, universities strongly supported the OPT visa and H1b visa. Both visas have made it viable for many foreign students to work in the U.S. after their studies and even settle down here.

    University executives/administrators and professors realize what a cash cow they have. There’s no way they’re going to stop pushing for foreign students. There’s also no way they’re going to support lowering tuition to more reasonable levels and reforming the student loans market. They’re making far too much money to want to change the status quo. Since they have a lot of sway over the politicians, don’t expect any legislative action to change anything.

    About 76% of American professors are non-tenured adjuncts now. These adjuncts have no job security and face low pay too. I believe the average salary for them is about 25K/yr, which is absolutely abysmal for someone with advanced educational credentials. They’re a highly exploited source of labor in academia. So it’s not just students who get exploited, it’s also untenured professors. Back in the late 60s, only 20% of American professors were non-tenured adjuncts.

    Ultimately, all of this (overcharging domestic students, selling credentials to foreigners, turning untenured academics into sweatshop labor) is parasitic rent-seeking. A powerful few exploit many to feather their nest. In the process, the parasites gradually kill the host (civic society).

    If Wall Street has financial oligarchs, the universities have their academic oligarchs.

    Read More
    • Agree: Jim Don Bob, PiltdownMan
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  86. “I also found out this guy’s child did not do well in school and he takes out a lot of his anger/resentment over that on Asians.”

    Oh, you poor dufus.

    “Don’t pretend like you’re smarter than them.”

    It’s “that”, not “like”.

    To any number of commenters: try, if you can, to grasp the difference between “some”, “many”, and “all”. And if cheating is a concern at CalTech, there’s still plenty of space for many many smart people, lots of them Asian.

    And to anyone who is still moronic enough to think I’m against Asians, hate Asians, or am in fact making any comment on Asian intellect generally:

    https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2014/07/14/building-narratives/

    https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2014/08/25/a-talk-with-an-asian-dad/

    https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2013/10/10/painting-pictures/

    Of course, lord knows I’m not convinced you’ll be able to understand the pieces. Find a two year old to explain them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hacienda
    I didn't say you were anti-asian. Criticism doesn't necessarily mean racism. I just think you're corny.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  87. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    I was walking across the Caltech campus once and a sophomore coed was leading a tour of prospective students parents. Somebody asked if Caltech was hard and the guide broke into tears.

    It’s almost three times as easy to get into CalTech as a female than as a male (16% vs 6%). And that probably understates the difference between the applicant pools—although CalTech doesn’t publish a breakdown by sexes of average scores on the SAT, Subject Tests, APs, as well as which sex got what percentage of the most prestigious awards (international math and science Olympiad participation, Intel Science, etc), it seems likely that these are all much higher among admitted males than females. Thus, CalTech (and MIT, Harvey Mudd, etc) offer white and Asian females one of their very few chances at affirmative action in college admissions. If you’ve read Mismatch, you’ll know this isn’t always a good thing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    You are talking about "mismatch" at such a high level that it hardly makes a difference. MIT gets 9 applications for every student they admit. Maybe 3 or 4 of each 9 are mismatched and the others are more or less equally qualified so they have to choose based on other factors (gender, race, legacy, etc.) Getting a 780 on your math SAT instead of 800 doesn't make you less qualified. The female applicants graduate at the same rate as the males, but their choice of majors is somewhat different (e.g more women in bio, more men in physics). However, there aren't many places to hide at MIT - there aren't that many "basket weaving and gender studies" type majors.
    , @Marty T
    It is however a good thing for the male students, who now have an outside shot of losing their virginity by 22.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  88. @Sunbeam
    Hmmm wasn't aware Mandelbrot had gone there. I always thought he was some kind of European Ecole product or something.

    Looking at that list there are some other surprising names - in that I didn't know there was a connection to Caltech. For example McCarthy and Knuth. Though some of these guys are even more surprising like Frank Capra.

    But...

    1) I don't know the size of Cambridge, but I imagine that a similar list of famous alums from there would go on for - pages and pages.

    2) Maybe some of these guys are hidden in a sense. Maybe a lot of the undergrads go on to other institutions and do their grad work at other schools? Whatever makes them well known is done at other schools and published while they are there?

    MIT has really incredible facilities, and a humongous research budget. Which in the end comes from Uncle Sam for the most part, though I imagine corporate support is actually a big deal there, which it isn't at most schools. It isn't really discussed much, but without NSF and DoD grants a whole lot of schools wouldn't be doing much research.

    Whereas while Caltech has graduate programs, I always gathered they weren't really a research school (and much smaller to boot) than the other big names.

    3) Most of those names have been around for a long, long time. Where are the new guys?

    If the students at Caltech are superintelligent denizens from the high IQ end of the bell curve, shouldn't they be more prominent or something?

    I'm not trying to be a devil's advocate or anything, but when I was in grad school, I'd read journals and see endless reams of stuff being done at Berkeley, Stanford, Michigan, MIT, Minnesota (most of the midwest schools were really prominent in technology). Heck I remember pulling some proceedings from the Royal Society

    I can't remember ever reading a single paper written at Caltech.

    Just saying if these guys are "Nature's Noblemen," the best and brightest... I dunno, I just expect more.

    I don’t know the size of Cambridge, but I imagine that a similar list of famous alums from there would go on for – pages and pages.

    This is hardly surprising, as Cambridge was founded in 1209 and has a 700 year headstart on Caltech, in addition to having about eight times as many students, and 31 constituent colleges. As Steve correctly points out, Cambridge is similar to a university system in the US, like CUNY. A fairer comparison would be to look at Caltech vs. Trinity College, Cambridge in the 20th century, and I daresay Caltech would do very well.

    Remember, too, that Caltech is primarily an engineering school and not a pure science school, unlike, say Princeton, which is strong in both. Engineers don’t win many Nobels for their work, no matter how revolutionary. Perhaps this is why it appears that Caltech’s actual output seems short of its extraordinary reputation for being a den of very brainy people.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  89. @TheJester
    There is another factor in play. The executives who run universities (if you want to call them that) have been able to create the illusion that a university is like a commercial corporation. It has revenue, profits, products, and customers. The executives, then, want to be paid like the officers of major corporations. This was distinctly different when I was at the university in the 1960s. Tuition was low ... and university professors and administrators consciously traded an exceptional lifestyle for monetary gain. Most of my professors lived in very modest middle-class homes.

    Then things changed. Students no longer had to work their way through school ... nor could they. With the advent of, first, liberal government loans and, then, collateral-free commercial loans to students, finding money for a university degree was no longer a problem. At that point, the university administrators (recast as corporate executives) realized they could hike and re-hike tuition and fees into the stratosphere to pay themselves corporate wages ... because the universities' customers (students) could always borrow more money to cover the rising cost of tuition and fees. Soon, the professors got into the game. Now, obscenely-paid university executives and professors constitute an economic elite living in clusters of mansions in gated communities surrounding their universities.

    In short, the university system today does not educate students as its first order of business. It's fairer to say that "its business is business". It financially exploits students ... charging whatever the market will bear.

    At that point, the university administrators (recast as corporate executives) realized they could hike and re-hike tuition and fees into the stratosphere to pay themselves corporate wages … because the universities’ customers (students) could always borrow more money to cover the rising cost of tuition and fees. Soon, the professors got into the game. Now, obscenely-paid university executives and professors constitute an economic elite living in clusters of mansions in gated communities surrounding their universities.

    In short, the university system today does not educate students as its first order of business. It’s fairer to say that “its business is business”. It financially exploits students … charging whatever the market will bear.

    This gets to the heart of the matter.

    My only quibble is that there is, in fact, no “market.” Universities are monopolists relative to their captive student population, and price collusion is the norm. Tuition charged by the top 50 or 100 private universities move in lockstep year after year, and are within a few hundred dollars of each other when announced every year.

    Relative to their private sector counterparts, MBA university administrators are in the enviable position of passing on all cost increases to their customers. Demand is inelastic. This is so because a college degree is essential to getting employment in the modern US economy. According to this article, out of 11.6 million jobs created in the post-crash economy, only 80,000 went to those with just a high school diploma.

    http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/30/news/economy/college-grads-jobs/

    If I were starting today in the job market with an MBA, I’d get a job as a college administrator. No shareholders to satisfy! No budgets to cut! Just add it to the tuition bill!

    Indeed, my eldest has just started college, I am keenly aware that without financial aid, the full cost of a 4 year college degree at any of the top 50 or so private colleges in the US is a bit more than 300,000 dollars. Universities have thus cottoned on to the fact that parents today are willing to empty out their pockets and decrease their net worth by as much as a third of a million dollars per child per undergraduate degree. That’s firmly in rich kid/parent territory, and it is only financial aid that preserves the fiction of economic diversity in the student body.

    The system is thoroughly corrupted, and it is only a matter of time before academic and intellectual quality begin to suffer.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    The system is thoroughly corrupted, and it is only a matter of time before academic and intellectual quality begin to suffer.
     
    I'd put that time at roughly -50 years, and that was only the beginning.
    , @Formerly CARealist
    Yes, but getting a 300k education sounds pretty dang impressive. Don't you get what you pay for? Maybe the problem in previous decades was that a college education was way too cheap. Now someone can say, "look, I went to William and Mary and paid all that money. You've got to start me at 90k a year."

    Getting a graduate degree is required to get a good job in civil engineering according to my nephew who is talking to the recruiters. Not only do you need to say you spent the bank, but that you trudged through an additional four years of education.
    , @Lurker

    The system is thoroughly corrupted, and it is only a matter of time before academic and intellectual quality begin to suffer.
     
    Another school of thought holds that this has already happened.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  90. Piltdownman said, “…The system is thoroughly corrupted, and it is only a matter of time before academic and intellectual quality begin to suffer.”

    That time is already well in the past. The hard sciences are the only places left with any intellectual rigor and the SJWs are working hard to undermine that with their steady drumbeat of glass ceilings, male partriarchy, etc.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  91. @Formerly CARealist
    I have relatives (in-laws) who went there. Four in fact. All of them are financially and socially quite successful. You would love any of their lives and careers (perhaps your life is wonderful too). My son will apply there.

    Wasn't Feynman at Caltech, among other places?

    He spent a year or so there in the 60′s.

    I used to have a copy of his lectures on physics (that was the title or something like it). This was a collection of his lectures and problem sets to the FRESHMAN class (if memory serves). Again if my memory is correct it was a set of three or so books; my version was softback with some kind of brilliant orange cover.

    When I had these, it was trivial for me to read and work through problems for a first physics course, something like the Halliday and Resnick text that’s been around a long time and was popular at a lot of schools.

    Couldn’t do much with the Feynman lectures or his problem sets. Looking back it seems to me that he thought of subjects I was very familiar with in very different ways than I was used to.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Formerly CARealist
    Halliday and Resnick. Boy, that brings back memories. I tried really hard in Physics at Berkeley, but I barely passed. Made me realize that I wouldn't get a degree in Chemistry after all. Oh well, Microbiology turned out to be okay for me.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  92. @Triumph104
    The French baccalauréat is meaningless. Nearly 90 percent of the people who sit for the exam in France pass. (In France passing the baccalauréat guarantees university admission).

    In the United States a student can fail their International Baccalaureate exams and still graduate high school and go to college with no problem.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/1983/0622/062204.html

    In the United States a student can fail their International Baccalaureate exams and still graduate high school and go to college with no problem.

    The International Baccalaureate or IB, a program designed for the last two years of high school, has nothing to do with the French baccalauréat which is now sclerotic. While the IB has acquired its cachet in the last decade by reason of having been adopted by numerous international schools overseas populated by the high achieving children of professional expatriates, almost 2/3 of the students in the IB system are US based.

    The IB is offered in two versions, the non-diploma course which has no final exams, and the diploma version, which rigorously tests the students on the entirety of the high-school syllabus in a series of 12 to 15 two hour exams.

    US colleges like the IB and value it more than the AP, but make their admissions decisions well before the final written essay-style IB exams which are taken by the student in May, at the end of the final term of high school.

    Accordingly, IB scores, which really separate the wheat from the chaff, academically speaking, are not considered by US colleges-just the coursework and in-class grades. That’s their loss, and not a flaw of the IB syllabus or system. Many US colleges do give credit for good grades in the IB exam results though, with Harvard offering potentially an exemption of up to 18 credits, depending on the scores achieved.

    Read More
    • Replies: @artichoke
    Colleges would only see AP scores earned before senior year. I guess that would be quite a few now for some students, but when I went to high school, I took one AP course, calculus as a senior. And that was considered pretty good at the time. And I got a semester's acceleration from it. Now kids can place out of a lot of things via AP.

    IB seems to be a lot of project work, just a lot of work from what I've heard. And in return, do they get any acceleration?

    Officially colleges all seem neutral on AP vs. IB. If you're given a choice at your HS, do they really sort of expect you to choose the IB?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  93. @Sunbeam
    Hmmm wasn't aware Mandelbrot had gone there. I always thought he was some kind of European Ecole product or something.

    Looking at that list there are some other surprising names - in that I didn't know there was a connection to Caltech. For example McCarthy and Knuth. Though some of these guys are even more surprising like Frank Capra.

    But...

    1) I don't know the size of Cambridge, but I imagine that a similar list of famous alums from there would go on for - pages and pages.

    2) Maybe some of these guys are hidden in a sense. Maybe a lot of the undergrads go on to other institutions and do their grad work at other schools? Whatever makes them well known is done at other schools and published while they are there?

    MIT has really incredible facilities, and a humongous research budget. Which in the end comes from Uncle Sam for the most part, though I imagine corporate support is actually a big deal there, which it isn't at most schools. It isn't really discussed much, but without NSF and DoD grants a whole lot of schools wouldn't be doing much research.

    Whereas while Caltech has graduate programs, I always gathered they weren't really a research school (and much smaller to boot) than the other big names.

    3) Most of those names have been around for a long, long time. Where are the new guys?

    If the students at Caltech are superintelligent denizens from the high IQ end of the bell curve, shouldn't they be more prominent or something?

    I'm not trying to be a devil's advocate or anything, but when I was in grad school, I'd read journals and see endless reams of stuff being done at Berkeley, Stanford, Michigan, MIT, Minnesota (most of the midwest schools were really prominent in technology). Heck I remember pulling some proceedings from the Royal Society

    I can't remember ever reading a single paper written at Caltech.

    Just saying if these guys are "Nature's Noblemen," the best and brightest... I dunno, I just expect more.

    Whereas while Caltech has graduate programs, I always gathered they weren’t really a research school (and much smaller to boot) than the other big names.

    This would be incorrect. Like every other R1 university, Caltech’s primary mission is research.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  94. @education realist
    "I also found out this guy’s child did not do well in school and he takes out a lot of his anger/resentment over that on Asians."

    Oh, you poor dufus.

    "Don’t pretend like you’re smarter than them."

    It's "that", not "like".

    To any number of commenters: try, if you can, to grasp the difference between "some", "many", and "all". And if cheating is a concern at CalTech, there's still plenty of space for many many smart people, lots of them Asian.

    And to anyone who is still moronic enough to think I'm against Asians, hate Asians, or am in fact making any comment on Asian intellect generally:

    https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2014/07/14/building-narratives/

    https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2014/08/25/a-talk-with-an-asian-dad/

    https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2013/10/10/painting-pictures/

    Of course, lord knows I'm not convinced you'll be able to understand the pieces. Find a two year old to explain them.

    I didn’t say you were anti-asian. Criticism doesn’t necessarily mean racism. I just think you’re corny.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  95. @Anonymous
    I've wondered why no one has pointed this out before, but it's blindingly obvious to me that there is a long-standing culture of exam taking in Chinese students, for the same reasons as stated. In the academically selective high schools in Sydney, Australia, where I work, the percentage of students of Chinese background is approx. 85%. The remainder are split fairly evenly between those of Indian, Korean, and Caucasian/european backgrounds. To gain entry to such schools there is a competitive exam, which the Chinese kiddies are tutored in from kindergarten age. At other end of the pipeline they are tutored very extensively (5+ hours a week) in order to slam-dunk the public end of high school exam that determines whether you get into medicine, law, or the various combinations like commerce/law at Australia's top universities. (You need a score of 99.95 to guarantee entry into the most in-demand courses).

    To gain entry to such schools there is a competitive exam, which the Chinese kiddies are tutored in from kindergarten age.

    Isn’t the real issue just the fact that there are so many more Chinese and India people? It is hard to compete for the top spots in such a large group. However Australia has something like 25 million. Assuming that the immigrants that Australia is willing to take are drawn from the top of Chinese population, then it isn’t surprising they are easily competitive. I mean it is based on how many qualified people competing for how many spots.

    In the USA there has been much derision for teaching to the test. Do you think that is a valid criticism? Wouldn’t pretty much the same distribution result if students were selected based on end of course exams? I think England has some system like that.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  96. @Triumph104
    Presumably Asian scores will continue to rise ...

    The 2016 revision of the SAT has resulted in higher scores. Asians had an average math score of 598 on the old version, which will be about 645 on the new version. It will probably be a year before College Board releases SAT scores by race.

    I think that the elite colleges wanted more perfect scores. If perfect scores are a dime a dozen then applicants are less likely to complain or sue when they get rejected.

    To gain entry to such schools there is a competitive exam, which the Chinese kiddies are tutored in from kindergarten age.

    Isn’t the real issue just the fact that there are so many more Chinese and India people? It is hard to compete for the top spots in such a large group. However Australia has something like 25 million. Assuming that the immigrants that Australia is willing to take are drawn from the top of Chinese population, then it isn’t surprising they are easily competitive. I mean it is based on how many qualified people competing for how many spots.

    In the USA there has been much derision for teaching to the test. Do you think that is a valid criticism? Wouldn’t pretty much the same distribution result if students were selected based on end of course exams? I think England has some system like that.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  97. @Oldeguy
    Steve beat me to it- see his reply to you below.
    Cal Tech is, of course, one the most highly regarded and most selective Universities in the world.
    They don't self promote because their truly astounding array of stars numbered among their alumni speaks for itself.

    They don’t self promote because their truly astounding array of stars numbered among their alumni speaks for itself.

    Not many Asians there in the Hall of Fame.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  98. @PiltdownMan

    At that point, the university administrators (recast as corporate executives) realized they could hike and re-hike tuition and fees into the stratosphere to pay themselves corporate wages … because the universities’ customers (students) could always borrow more money to cover the rising cost of tuition and fees. Soon, the professors got into the game. Now, obscenely-paid university executives and professors constitute an economic elite living in clusters of mansions in gated communities surrounding their universities.

    In short, the university system today does not educate students as its first order of business. It’s fairer to say that “its business is business”. It financially exploits students … charging whatever the market will bear.
     

    This gets to the heart of the matter.

    My only quibble is that there is, in fact, no "market." Universities are monopolists relative to their captive student population, and price collusion is the norm. Tuition charged by the top 50 or 100 private universities move in lockstep year after year, and are within a few hundred dollars of each other when announced every year.

    Relative to their private sector counterparts, MBA university administrators are in the enviable position of passing on all cost increases to their customers. Demand is inelastic. This is so because a college degree is essential to getting employment in the modern US economy. According to this article, out of 11.6 million jobs created in the post-crash economy, only 80,000 went to those with just a high school diploma.

    http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/30/news/economy/college-grads-jobs/

    If I were starting today in the job market with an MBA, I'd get a job as a college administrator. No shareholders to satisfy! No budgets to cut! Just add it to the tuition bill!

    Indeed, my eldest has just started college, I am keenly aware that without financial aid, the full cost of a 4 year college degree at any of the top 50 or so private colleges in the US is a bit more than 300,000 dollars. Universities have thus cottoned on to the fact that parents today are willing to empty out their pockets and decrease their net worth by as much as a third of a million dollars per child per undergraduate degree. That's firmly in rich kid/parent territory, and it is only financial aid that preserves the fiction of economic diversity in the student body.

    The system is thoroughly corrupted, and it is only a matter of time before academic and intellectual quality begin to suffer.

    The system is thoroughly corrupted, and it is only a matter of time before academic and intellectual quality begin to suffer.

    I’d put that time at roughly -50 years, and that was only the beginning.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  99. @Anonymous
    It's almost three times as easy to get into CalTech as a female than as a male (16% vs 6%). And that probably understates the difference between the applicant pools—although CalTech doesn't publish a breakdown by sexes of average scores on the SAT, Subject Tests, APs, as well as which sex got what percentage of the most prestigious awards (international math and science Olympiad participation, Intel Science, etc), it seems likely that these are all much higher among admitted males than females. Thus, CalTech (and MIT, Harvey Mudd, etc) offer white and Asian females one of their very few chances at affirmative action in college admissions. If you've read Mismatch, you'll know this isn't always a good thing.

    You are talking about “mismatch” at such a high level that it hardly makes a difference. MIT gets 9 applications for every student they admit. Maybe 3 or 4 of each 9 are mismatched and the others are more or less equally qualified so they have to choose based on other factors (gender, race, legacy, etc.) Getting a 780 on your math SAT instead of 800 doesn’t make you less qualified. The female applicants graduate at the same rate as the males, but their choice of majors is somewhat different (e.g more women in bio, more men in physics). However, there aren’t many places to hide at MIT – there aren’t that many “basket weaving and gender studies” type majors.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about. CalTech doesn't employ traditional hooks like race, which is why they have 40% Asians and 2% blacks. Look it up. MIT eschews legacy preferences.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  100. @Jack D
    You are talking about "mismatch" at such a high level that it hardly makes a difference. MIT gets 9 applications for every student they admit. Maybe 3 or 4 of each 9 are mismatched and the others are more or less equally qualified so they have to choose based on other factors (gender, race, legacy, etc.) Getting a 780 on your math SAT instead of 800 doesn't make you less qualified. The female applicants graduate at the same rate as the males, but their choice of majors is somewhat different (e.g more women in bio, more men in physics). However, there aren't many places to hide at MIT - there aren't that many "basket weaving and gender studies" type majors.

    Sorry, but you don’t know what you are talking about. CalTech doesn’t employ traditional hooks like race, which is why they have 40% Asians and 2% blacks. Look it up. MIT eschews legacy preferences.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  101. @Triumph104
    Presumably Asian scores will continue to rise ...

    The 2016 revision of the SAT has resulted in higher scores. Asians had an average math score of 598 on the old version, which will be about 645 on the new version. It will probably be a year before College Board releases SAT scores by race.

    I think that the elite colleges wanted more perfect scores. If perfect scores are a dime a dozen then applicants are less likely to complain or sue when they get rejected.

    I think that the elite colleges wanted more perfect scores. If perfect scores are a dime a dozen then applicants are less likely to complain or sue when they get rejected.

    That is interesting given that 800′s on Math were far more numerous than 790′s. So, the SAT already had an obvious ceiling.

    The college board website used to have the tables that listed how many test takers achieved a given score on each of the sections. I can no longer find it on their site. Now all I can find are mean scores or listed by percentile.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe
    Okay, I found it.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-crit-reading-2015.pdf

    In 2015, there were 9,906 test takers who got an 800 on reading, but only 1,306 who got a 790.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-mathematics-2015.pdf

    16,668 got an 800 on the Math and 4,381 got a 790.

    So there is a significant spike at the tail of the curve. One out of twenty Asian males has an 800 Math SAT. About 11,000 nationwide. Only about 2,100 black males have a 700+ Math SAT.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-ethnicity-2015.pdf

    If there are even more scores at the top, then yes, I think that it may be true that it will be easier to reject those with top scores and it seems it will also create more "highly qualified" candidates among lower scoring minority groups. And that larger group of students with a highly qualified status could allow institutions to accept more NAM's and fewer Asians.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  102. @JohnnyWalker123
    Professor James Flynn has done extensive analysis of IQ tests done on different ethnic groups. He estimated that for the descendants of Chinese and Japanese immigrants that arrived in the early 20th century, their mean IQ is 98.5.

    Interestingly, he noted that their test scores and educational credentials are much more impressive than raw IQ alone would predict.

    Ron Unz wrote a good article on "How Social Darwinism Made Modern China." His main point was that the severe economic pressures of daily life selected against peasants who weren't extremely frugal, industrious, and tenacious. So perhaps it's not surprising that their modern descendants are more academically diligent than other ethnic groups.

    http://www.unz.com/article/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/

    http://www.unz.com/runz/china-chinese-eugenics/

    Keep in mind that turn of the century Asian immigrants were from the poorest sectors of Asian societies – these were people imported as agricultural labor, ditch diggers, etc. Basically the same niche that Mexicans fill today. If Mexicans have an average IQ equal to their body temperature a century from now, I’ll eat my sombrero.

    More recent Asian immigrants tend to arrive with more education than the turn of the century types and I would bet have higher IQ than the older immigrant group.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    The Japanese immigrants actually tended not to be the worst off. Mostly because the Japanese government didn't permit the most impoverished peasants to immigrate. They tended to be middle-class by the standards of the country.

    Chinese migrants were mostly peasants, but some came as merchants too. The Chinese migrants often bought highly sought forged documents that allowed them to migrate into America (google "paper sons"), so the poorest migrants would've found it difficult to buy the documents and leave.

    My guess is that the Asian peasant immigrants were reflective of the societies they immigrated from. Probably not dissimilar to the European peasants that populated America. Not elite, but not the bottom class either.

    China and Japan were poor enough at the time that leaving was an attractive option to the large majority of people. China especially was in a state of chaos and violence.
    , @artichoke
    If the turn of the century immigrants were 98.5, the recent ones much higher. The ones who come to good doctoral programs here may average 150 or more; they are extremely selected. But there are others, some to MBA programs, some to undergrad programs because they didn't get into top universities in China or maybe were never even in the running to get into any decent university there: paying $$$ and having access to a little cheating on the SAT or GMAT or whatever, they can get admitted here without too much trouble.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  103. @Sunbeam
    Hmmm wasn't aware Mandelbrot had gone there. I always thought he was some kind of European Ecole product or something.

    Looking at that list there are some other surprising names - in that I didn't know there was a connection to Caltech. For example McCarthy and Knuth. Though some of these guys are even more surprising like Frank Capra.

    But...

    1) I don't know the size of Cambridge, but I imagine that a similar list of famous alums from there would go on for - pages and pages.

    2) Maybe some of these guys are hidden in a sense. Maybe a lot of the undergrads go on to other institutions and do their grad work at other schools? Whatever makes them well known is done at other schools and published while they are there?

    MIT has really incredible facilities, and a humongous research budget. Which in the end comes from Uncle Sam for the most part, though I imagine corporate support is actually a big deal there, which it isn't at most schools. It isn't really discussed much, but without NSF and DoD grants a whole lot of schools wouldn't be doing much research.

    Whereas while Caltech has graduate programs, I always gathered they weren't really a research school (and much smaller to boot) than the other big names.

    3) Most of those names have been around for a long, long time. Where are the new guys?

    If the students at Caltech are superintelligent denizens from the high IQ end of the bell curve, shouldn't they be more prominent or something?

    I'm not trying to be a devil's advocate or anything, but when I was in grad school, I'd read journals and see endless reams of stuff being done at Berkeley, Stanford, Michigan, MIT, Minnesota (most of the midwest schools were really prominent in technology). Heck I remember pulling some proceedings from the Royal Society

    I can't remember ever reading a single paper written at Caltech.

    Just saying if these guys are "Nature's Noblemen," the best and brightest... I dunno, I just expect more.

    You know what’s really odd about Caltech? I really can’t think of a single really important figure that went to school there.

    I clicked on just one name on the alumni page and it turns out that Ahmed Zewail never attended Caltech, although he was a professor at the university. He died earlier this month.

    If the students at Caltech are superintelligent denizens from the high IQ end of the bell curve, shouldn’t they be more prominent or something?

    No. High IQ doesn’t equate to prominence. I’m sure there are more prominent graduates from Morehouse.

    If you mean prominent in the field of science, the problem with Caltech is too many smart people in one place so it is next to impossible to shine. A study has shown that a grad student is more likely to have research published if they attend a mid-level university than if that same student attended an elite university. A big fish in a small pond gets more opportunities.

    Caltech’s admissions policy or faculty culture may be factor, but I don’t know. MIT admits a higher percentage of women so more affirmative action. Both of NPR’s The Car Guys are MIT graduates, plus a current NFL player is a part-time math PhD candidate, prominent for different reasons.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  104. @Joe Schmoe

    I think that the elite colleges wanted more perfect scores. If perfect scores are a dime a dozen then applicants are less likely to complain or sue when they get rejected.
     
    That is interesting given that 800's on Math were far more numerous than 790's. So, the SAT already had an obvious ceiling.

    The college board website used to have the tables that listed how many test takers achieved a given score on each of the sections. I can no longer find it on their site. Now all I can find are mean scores or listed by percentile.

    Okay, I found it.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-crit-reading-2015.pdf

    In 2015, there were 9,906 test takers who got an 800 on reading, but only 1,306 who got a 790.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-mathematics-2015.pdf

    16,668 got an 800 on the Math and 4,381 got a 790.

    So there is a significant spike at the tail of the curve. One out of twenty Asian males has an 800 Math SAT. About 11,000 nationwide. Only about 2,100 black males have a 700+ Math SAT.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-ethnicity-2015.pdf

    If there are even more scores at the top, then yes, I think that it may be true that it will be easier to reject those with top scores and it seems it will also create more “highly qualified” candidates among lower scoring minority groups. And that larger group of students with a highly qualified status could allow institutions to accept more NAM’s and fewer Asians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    There are some curious dips in the math scores—at 760, 780, and 790. Are these an artifact of the way the questions are marked? That is, are the hardest questions likely to lose you 10, 20, or 40 points if you get them wrong, but not 30 or 50 points?
    , @keuril
    This is a bit of a red herring. The way the math section is scored, missing even one on the "raw score" can result in a "scale score" deduction of as much as 50, and usually 30. Thus, the normal step down from 800 is 770. There are six administrations of the SAT per year. I bet there was only one where getting one wrong on the raw score resulted in a scale score deduction of just 10 points (i.e. 790). For the other five administrations, it was literally impossible to get a 790.
    , @artichoke
    In other words, they put a lower ceiling on the test. That's how they are providing "equity" for "all students".

    Nobody has much respect for these new SAT's, the ceiling gets lower every time they revise them, and apparently it's the same again. Except maybe for SJW admissions offices that may love them. I am wondering if it isn't time for bright high schoolers to start submitting literal IQ test results.

    But they just lowered the cognitive weighting on the WISC-V vs. the WISC-IV that it just replaced! This is a conspiracy to prevent the brightest from distinguishing themselves!

    From your stats it seems like the new SAT is scored something like Math Level 2: for a good student, anything but 800 is unfortunate. There's a traffic jam at 800.

    , @Triumph104

    If there are even more scores at the top, then yes, I think that it may be true that it will be easier to reject those with top scores and it seems it will also create more “highly qualified” candidates among lower scoring minority groups. And that larger group of students with a highly qualified status could allow institutions to accept more NAM’s and fewer Asians.
     
    In the near future I don't see institutions accepting more NAMs. I think the higher SAT scores will simply justify the ones that they are already admitting. I think in the short term more whites will be admitted. In the US there are 12 whites for every Asian but on elite campuses there are less than three whites Americans for every Asian American.

    No matter how the deck is shuffled there are going to be fewer Asians.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  105. @PiltdownMan

    At that point, the university administrators (recast as corporate executives) realized they could hike and re-hike tuition and fees into the stratosphere to pay themselves corporate wages … because the universities’ customers (students) could always borrow more money to cover the rising cost of tuition and fees. Soon, the professors got into the game. Now, obscenely-paid university executives and professors constitute an economic elite living in clusters of mansions in gated communities surrounding their universities.

    In short, the university system today does not educate students as its first order of business. It’s fairer to say that “its business is business”. It financially exploits students … charging whatever the market will bear.
     

    This gets to the heart of the matter.

    My only quibble is that there is, in fact, no "market." Universities are monopolists relative to their captive student population, and price collusion is the norm. Tuition charged by the top 50 or 100 private universities move in lockstep year after year, and are within a few hundred dollars of each other when announced every year.

    Relative to their private sector counterparts, MBA university administrators are in the enviable position of passing on all cost increases to their customers. Demand is inelastic. This is so because a college degree is essential to getting employment in the modern US economy. According to this article, out of 11.6 million jobs created in the post-crash economy, only 80,000 went to those with just a high school diploma.

    http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/30/news/economy/college-grads-jobs/

    If I were starting today in the job market with an MBA, I'd get a job as a college administrator. No shareholders to satisfy! No budgets to cut! Just add it to the tuition bill!

    Indeed, my eldest has just started college, I am keenly aware that without financial aid, the full cost of a 4 year college degree at any of the top 50 or so private colleges in the US is a bit more than 300,000 dollars. Universities have thus cottoned on to the fact that parents today are willing to empty out their pockets and decrease their net worth by as much as a third of a million dollars per child per undergraduate degree. That's firmly in rich kid/parent territory, and it is only financial aid that preserves the fiction of economic diversity in the student body.

    The system is thoroughly corrupted, and it is only a matter of time before academic and intellectual quality begin to suffer.

    Yes, but getting a 300k education sounds pretty dang impressive. Don’t you get what you pay for? Maybe the problem in previous decades was that a college education was way too cheap. Now someone can say, “look, I went to William and Mary and paid all that money. You’ve got to start me at 90k a year.”

    Getting a graduate degree is required to get a good job in civil engineering according to my nephew who is talking to the recruiters. Not only do you need to say you spent the bank, but that you trudged through an additional four years of education.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  106. @Jus' Sayin'...
    I've lived in and around Harvard Square most of my adult life since the late 1970s. When I first arrived on the scene the Square was a vibrant place, full of quirky, independent and locally owned bookstores, specialty item stores, coffeehouses, restaurants, movie houses, and other such businesses, all catering to the needs of students. Street musicians were to be found on every corner, particularly on the weekends. The students that frequented the Square were mostly native-born Americans with a significant admix of foreign students, although these were more concentrated in the older, grad student ages.

    Now wealthy foreigners of college age are the predominant inhabitants of the square. They are spoiled rotten. The local businesses with their affordable wares have been replaced by upscale and very expensive chains. The street musicians are still there but matched in numbers by "homeless" derelicts who foul the streets with their effluvia and occasionally accost passersby in a variety of unpleasant ways. The place has become an uninviting dump, a somewhat sanitized version of an Asian urban center. Native-born students have migrated to new versions of the old Harvard Square, e.g., Davis Square.

    Meanwhile, Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, Northeastern, etc., are making out like bandits off the loot they extract from their new international students and their uber-wealthy, filthy rich parents.

    BU has always been rife with foreign students; it was above thirty percent 35 years ago when I was there. It wasn’t “Tel Aviv on the Charles” for nothing!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  107. @Hippopotamusdrome


    , I myself might very well have passed on the “regatta” question

     

    Regatta. Etymology: From Venetian regata ("contention for mastery"), from regatare ("compete, haggle, sell at retail"), possibly from recatare.

    Shouldn't that be culturally biased in favor of Italians?


    Would an Inuit Eskimo from north of the Arctic Circle necessarily know the meaning of “cactus is to desert as…?”

     

    Do you live in a desert? If not, how do you know what a cactus is? How do you know what an igloo, polar bear, penguin, kayak, iceberg and dog sled are if you don't live in the Arctic Circle?

    Do you know what continent a kangaroo, digeridoo, and boomerang would be found. Would such questions be culturally biased against Americans?

    Banana tree is to rainforest ... Do you need to live in the rainforest to know?

    On the topic of boat races, can you name the people who sail in a trireme, galleon, junk, longship, outrigger canoe, kayak, currach and cog respectively?

    I am asking: Does the SAT measures the test-taker’s verbal and math levels. Or does it measure how “intelligent” he/she is. It is supposed to measure the former, not the latter. The SAT was never meant to be an IQ test (i.e. the equivalent of the Stanford-Binet). However, as suggested in the Lehmann excerpt referred to above, in fact that is how it is treated. And that, precisely, is the problem which gives rise to such controversies as the “Regatta-type question” , which clearly assumes significance because it implies that a person of limited access to the wider world (or possibly none) –our Inuit Eskimo for example–is not “intelligent” when his/her experience does not take into account the existence of such as cacti and deserts. That has been the argument made by the SJW crowd in justifying changing the SAT. I hate to state the obvious but nevertheless it has to be said: Education and intelligence are not the same thing. A person who is highly intelligent may not have sufficient education (both on the classroom level and life experience level) to do college work. The SJW crowd may have a point about the Regatta question, but it is what it is and to allow kids to attend college who are demonstrably unable to handle college-level classwork, regardless of how much raw intelligence they may, have is definitely not a solution to a problem that may in the long run be insoluble.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D

    Regatta-type question” , which clearly assumes significance because it implies that a person of limited access to the wider world (or possibly none)
     
    The Regatta thing was BS. I've never been on a yacht to this day but I know what a regatta is the same way I know what an igloo is and what a cassava is - I read about them in books.

    They got rid of analogies on the SAT because it was more heavily "g" loaded than other sections - more of a pure intelligence test, despite the need to know the meaning of words like "regatta" . Blacks do poorly on g loaded tasks. You can memorize a list of vocabulary words but you can never memorize how to understand an analogy.

    You can try to make a test less g loaded but it's basically impossible unless you turn it into a test of dribbling ability or knowledge of rap lyrics. Education and intelligence are two sides of the same coin - intelligent people are more educable.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  108. @Sunbeam
    "70% of the Cal Tech under-grad student body is promptly forgetting course content the day after each final as they progress up the ladder from foundational to sub-specialized course work ?"

    You know what's really odd about Caltech? I really can't think of a single really important figure that went to school there.

    They've been around quite a while (Steve has written about Jack Parsons a time or two). But I can't think of a single Nobel prize winner, a single important innovator of any sort who went to school there.

    Anyone got anything? I'm drawing a blank. My grad school days ended a long time ago, but even then I saw lots of things done by the "usual suspects," Berkeley, Michigan, etc.

    They've been using this system a long time. But as Reagan put it, "Where's the beef?"

    Maybe I'm wrong, if so someone will point out important work done by Caltech grads, or a notable figure in a scientific or engineering field. But me, I got nothin' on these guys.

    You may have heard of Gordon Moore, a son of the San Mateo County Deputy Sheriff, who went on to some distinction in the electronics field.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    You could have a cop period TV show about the adventures of Gordon Moore's dad fighting moonshiners in the agricultural Santa Clare Valley: "Moore's Law."
    , @Sunbeam
    "You may have heard of Gordon Moore, a son of the San Mateo County Deputy Sheriff, who went on to some distinction in the electronics field."

    Obviously I've heard of him. But...

    The "but" is this. John McCarthy was an important scientist. Knuth was too.

    Moore? Without googling him to death tell me how he ranks with the other names I mentioned.

    Leaving aside the observation ("Moore's Law") he is most famous for, Moore also made an assload of money founding Intel.

    But (that word again), what did he actually do? Would Silicon Valley have never arisen if he had died in a car accident in the 50's?

    Or, as I believe, when it's steam engine time, it's steam engine time. Someone else would have founded a company that did similar things.

    You might make a case for Henry Ford being some kind of revolutionary figure at this kind of thing. But my take is Moore is more like Alfred P. Sloan. Successful, famous, but if he hadn't been around someone else would have filled his niche.

    And yeah, I believe it was "because the stars were right." The technology had progressed to the point, the manpower (and brainpower) was in the area. Just a powderkeg waiting to explode.

    And lots of people could have done it. Moore happened to be in the right place at the right time, and a special snowflake accreted around his dust mote rather than someone else's.

    As for his famous law. My take again, is it was probably discussed quite a few times in barrooms around the Bay Area. That kind of thing is almost never the result of a solitary genius reading the tealeaves then sitting down with his sliderule. I mean, we aren't talking about string theory or something, just "how far can it go." Add beer and some napkins.

    Some things are that way. I don't think that one was. It was an important observation, and it made a pithy story and anecdote, particularly for print media, to frame an effect when writing about it.

    So yeah, I'll cheerfully admit Moore was a heck of a lot smarter than I am, and made more money than I can imagine.

    But 100 years from now, I think guys like John McCarthy will be mentioned like Josiah Willard Gibbs. Even less people will know who Gordon Moore was, unless there is something like Antiques Roadshow for old microprocessors.

    So what I'm saying is some people bring the Promethean Fire. Other people might be a big noise, but on a larger scale they are totally unimportant. Kind of my own take on the Great Man/Environment theory of history. Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not. And only time will tell.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  109. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Asians? College admission tests have been gamed by The Tribe from the beginning.

    There is a testing mafia in the northeast. Below is one quote from the article but understand "reusing questions" is just the tip of the iceberg. The insiders leak huge amounts of answers to favored disseminators. It's a large crooked network and your dumb kid can get much better scores if plugged in. Your slightly above average kid can score genius level. And at the same the media trumpets that "test preparation" doesn't really help scores!

    Sen. Chuck Schumer and many other American mediocrities have perfect SAT scores on their resumes. Figure it out.

    The SAT has proved particularly vulnerable ... Test-preparation companies obtain previously administered questions that are scheduled for reuse and feed those questions to students, who can score higher by practicing on the exam items before the test.

    I was never “plugged in”, but I did prep on my own like crazy for standardized tests, which involved practicing and analyzing thousands of old test questions, some of which were re-used almost word for word on the actual test. So, I suppose if one were really dedicated, with a high tolerance for tedium, one could replicate the advantages that the “plugged-in” people had.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  110. Marty [AKA "coot veal or cot deal"] says:

    Lehman essentially admitted that blacks just don’t like to sit still and study, and that that’s why he and other goodwhites consider the SAT to be “biased.”

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  111. @Jus' Sayin'...
    I've lived in and around Harvard Square most of my adult life since the late 1970s. When I first arrived on the scene the Square was a vibrant place, full of quirky, independent and locally owned bookstores, specialty item stores, coffeehouses, restaurants, movie houses, and other such businesses, all catering to the needs of students. Street musicians were to be found on every corner, particularly on the weekends. The students that frequented the Square were mostly native-born Americans with a significant admix of foreign students, although these were more concentrated in the older, grad student ages.

    Now wealthy foreigners of college age are the predominant inhabitants of the square. They are spoiled rotten. The local businesses with their affordable wares have been replaced by upscale and very expensive chains. The street musicians are still there but matched in numbers by "homeless" derelicts who foul the streets with their effluvia and occasionally accost passersby in a variety of unpleasant ways. The place has become an uninviting dump, a somewhat sanitized version of an Asian urban center. Native-born students have migrated to new versions of the old Harvard Square, e.g., Davis Square.

    Meanwhile, Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, Northeastern, etc., are making out like bandits off the loot they extract from their new international students and their uber-wealthy, filthy rich parents.

    There’s been a huge runup in the real estate prices in Cambridge over recent years, and this extends to a good degree to the tonier suburbs of Boston. And it’s obvious too that virtually all viable portions of Boston itself and its immediate neighbors have been undergoing a massive infusion of money, if one pays attention to the gentrification of the towns and neighborhoods (Somerville and Arlington are two such examples.)

    In the slightly further out suburbs, at least one factor contributing is the infusion of rich Chinese immigrants who are seeking top education for their kids.

    But the general rise in property values across all these towns and neighborhoods must have an explanation beyond that.

    I have been wondering for some time exactly where all this new money is coming from. A big increase in the financial industry? In the medical-biotech industry? In the education industry? A combination of them all?

    But it’s remarkable to contrast the Boston/Cambridge/Somerville/Arlington/etc. of, say, the late 70s with that of today.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  112. There has been a lot of foreign money, e.g. ChiComs getting out while they can, buying residential and commercial real estate as a safe haven for their (ill) gotten gains. It got so bad in Vancouver that the province of British Columbia recently imposed a 15% tax on all foreign real estate transactions. In the DC area, commercial office buildings, even if not fully occupied, are selling for crazy prices. $700k brick houses are being bought for the land alone and then scraped to make way for $1.5+ million dollar houses.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  113. @Jack D
    Keep in mind that turn of the century Asian immigrants were from the poorest sectors of Asian societies - these were people imported as agricultural labor, ditch diggers, etc. Basically the same niche that Mexicans fill today. If Mexicans have an average IQ equal to their body temperature a century from now, I'll eat my sombrero.

    More recent Asian immigrants tend to arrive with more education than the turn of the century types and I would bet have higher IQ than the older immigrant group.

    The Japanese immigrants actually tended not to be the worst off. Mostly because the Japanese government didn’t permit the most impoverished peasants to immigrate. They tended to be middle-class by the standards of the country.

    Chinese migrants were mostly peasants, but some came as merchants too. The Chinese migrants often bought highly sought forged documents that allowed them to migrate into America (google “paper sons”), so the poorest migrants would’ve found it difficult to buy the documents and leave.

    My guess is that the Asian peasant immigrants were reflective of the societies they immigrated from. Probably not dissimilar to the European peasants that populated America. Not elite, but not the bottom class either.

    China and Japan were poor enough at the time that leaving was an attractive option to the large majority of people. China especially was in a state of chaos and violence.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  114. @Jean Cocteausten
    You may have heard of Gordon Moore, a son of the San Mateo County Deputy Sheriff, who went on to some distinction in the electronics field.

    You could have a cop period TV show about the adventures of Gordon Moore’s dad fighting moonshiners in the agricultural Santa Clare Valley: “Moore’s Law.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Lol! I'd watch that!

    "Ok, son. Is that a bipolar or a field-effect transistor? You have the right to an attorney if you do not know the answer."
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  115. @Steve Sailer
    You could have a cop period TV show about the adventures of Gordon Moore's dad fighting moonshiners in the agricultural Santa Clare Valley: "Moore's Law."

    Lol! I’d watch that!

    “Ok, son. Is that a bipolar or a field-effect transistor? You have the right to an attorney if you do not know the answer.”

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  116. @Jean Cocteausten
    You may have heard of Gordon Moore, a son of the San Mateo County Deputy Sheriff, who went on to some distinction in the electronics field.

    “You may have heard of Gordon Moore, a son of the San Mateo County Deputy Sheriff, who went on to some distinction in the electronics field.”

    Obviously I’ve heard of him. But…

    The “but” is this. John McCarthy was an important scientist. Knuth was too.

    Moore? Without googling him to death tell me how he ranks with the other names I mentioned.

    Leaving aside the observation (“Moore’s Law”) he is most famous for, Moore also made an assload of money founding Intel.

    But (that word again), what did he actually do? Would Silicon Valley have never arisen if he had died in a car accident in the 50′s?

    Or, as I believe, when it’s steam engine time, it’s steam engine time. Someone else would have founded a company that did similar things.

    You might make a case for Henry Ford being some kind of revolutionary figure at this kind of thing. But my take is Moore is more like Alfred P. Sloan. Successful, famous, but if he hadn’t been around someone else would have filled his niche.

    And yeah, I believe it was “because the stars were right.” The technology had progressed to the point, the manpower (and brainpower) was in the area. Just a powderkeg waiting to explode.

    And lots of people could have done it. Moore happened to be in the right place at the right time, and a special snowflake accreted around his dust mote rather than someone else’s.

    As for his famous law. My take again, is it was probably discussed quite a few times in barrooms around the Bay Area. That kind of thing is almost never the result of a solitary genius reading the tealeaves then sitting down with his sliderule. I mean, we aren’t talking about string theory or something, just “how far can it go.” Add beer and some napkins.

    Some things are that way. I don’t think that one was. It was an important observation, and it made a pithy story and anecdote, particularly for print media, to frame an effect when writing about it.

    So yeah, I’ll cheerfully admit Moore was a heck of a lot smarter than I am, and made more money than I can imagine.

    But 100 years from now, I think guys like John McCarthy will be mentioned like Josiah Willard Gibbs. Even less people will know who Gordon Moore was, unless there is something like Antiques Roadshow for old microprocessors.

    So what I’m saying is some people bring the Promethean Fire. Other people might be a big noise, but on a larger scale they are totally unimportant. Kind of my own take on the Great Man/Environment theory of history. Sometimes it’s true, sometimes it’s not. And only time will tell.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  117. @Joe Schmoe
    Okay, I found it.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-crit-reading-2015.pdf

    In 2015, there were 9,906 test takers who got an 800 on reading, but only 1,306 who got a 790.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-mathematics-2015.pdf

    16,668 got an 800 on the Math and 4,381 got a 790.

    So there is a significant spike at the tail of the curve. One out of twenty Asian males has an 800 Math SAT. About 11,000 nationwide. Only about 2,100 black males have a 700+ Math SAT.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-ethnicity-2015.pdf

    If there are even more scores at the top, then yes, I think that it may be true that it will be easier to reject those with top scores and it seems it will also create more "highly qualified" candidates among lower scoring minority groups. And that larger group of students with a highly qualified status could allow institutions to accept more NAM's and fewer Asians.

    There are some curious dips in the math scores—at 760, 780, and 790. Are these an artifact of the way the questions are marked? That is, are the hardest questions likely to lose you 10, 20, or 40 points if you get them wrong, but not 30 or 50 points?

    Read More
    • Replies: @keuril
    The basic issue is that the math subtest of the "old" SAT Reasoning (the 2400 scale one, which ran from 2006 until January of this year, but has now been replaced by a "new" 1600 scale SAT Reasoning) was really easy for reasonably accomplished students. Because a lot of people knew the math, a lot of people would get perfect scores (800). In order to give the test some semblance of a curve, even missing one could result in a big deduction (even though this wouldn't mean that somebody with a 770 score actually knew the math less well than somebody with an 800 score).

    By contrast, in the Math II Subject Test, the math is quite a bit harder, so one can make a lot of errors and still get an 800. I think typically one can miss around 9 on the raw score while maintaining a perfect scale score. I believe there have been some years where every enrollee at CalTech got an 800 on the Math II Subject Test, even though it's a lot harder than the SAT Reasoning Math subtest, and many people wouldn't get a perfect score there just because of a single careless mistake.

    The general rule on College Board tests is, the harder the test, the more you can miss on the raw score without getting shellacked on the scale score. Conversely, the easy tests are very unforgiving on the scale score (compare the percentiles for 800 on the Math II Subject Test and the much easier Math I Subject Test).

    However, AFAIK they don't weight individual problems on SAT Reasoning. I.e., it's not like you would get 10 off for missing Question 21, but 30 off for missing Question 25. They simply say, a given raw score corresponds to a given scale score. However, in a particular administration of the math subtest on the SAT Reasoning, if there is, say, some question that a huge number of people miss, then that may cause a raw score with just one wrong to have a fairly small deduction on the scale score. I think that's how some people wound up with a 790 in those tables Joe posted.
    , @Jack D
    Yes and no. All questions are weighted the same, but of course the hardest questions are the ones that people are most likely to get wrong. As keuril explained, the conversion from raw score to scaled score differs with each test version so that 1 wrong answer on the math SAT (which will probably but not necessarily be on one of the harder questions) will get you some variable # of points taken off depending on the curve for that particular version.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  118. @Steve Sailer
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Institute_of_Technology#Alumni

    No Neil DeGrasse Tysons in the lot eh?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  119. @Joe Schmoe
    Okay, I found it.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-crit-reading-2015.pdf

    In 2015, there were 9,906 test takers who got an 800 on reading, but only 1,306 who got a 790.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-mathematics-2015.pdf

    16,668 got an 800 on the Math and 4,381 got a 790.

    So there is a significant spike at the tail of the curve. One out of twenty Asian males has an 800 Math SAT. About 11,000 nationwide. Only about 2,100 black males have a 700+ Math SAT.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-ethnicity-2015.pdf

    If there are even more scores at the top, then yes, I think that it may be true that it will be easier to reject those with top scores and it seems it will also create more "highly qualified" candidates among lower scoring minority groups. And that larger group of students with a highly qualified status could allow institutions to accept more NAM's and fewer Asians.

    This is a bit of a red herring. The way the math section is scored, missing even one on the “raw score” can result in a “scale score” deduction of as much as 50, and usually 30. Thus, the normal step down from 800 is 770. There are six administrations of the SAT per year. I bet there was only one where getting one wrong on the raw score resulted in a scale score deduction of just 10 points (i.e. 790). For the other five administrations, it was literally impossible to get a 790.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe
    Thank you.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  120. @PiltdownMan
    There are some curious dips in the math scores—at 760, 780, and 790. Are these an artifact of the way the questions are marked? That is, are the hardest questions likely to lose you 10, 20, or 40 points if you get them wrong, but not 30 or 50 points?

    The basic issue is that the math subtest of the “old” SAT Reasoning (the 2400 scale one, which ran from 2006 until January of this year, but has now been replaced by a “new” 1600 scale SAT Reasoning) was really easy for reasonably accomplished students. Because a lot of people knew the math, a lot of people would get perfect scores (800). In order to give the test some semblance of a curve, even missing one could result in a big deduction (even though this wouldn’t mean that somebody with a 770 score actually knew the math less well than somebody with an 800 score).

    By contrast, in the Math II Subject Test, the math is quite a bit harder, so one can make a lot of errors and still get an 800. I think typically one can miss around 9 on the raw score while maintaining a perfect scale score. I believe there have been some years where every enrollee at CalTech got an 800 on the Math II Subject Test, even though it’s a lot harder than the SAT Reasoning Math subtest, and many people wouldn’t get a perfect score there just because of a single careless mistake.

    The general rule on College Board tests is, the harder the test, the more you can miss on the raw score without getting shellacked on the scale score. Conversely, the easy tests are very unforgiving on the scale score (compare the percentiles for 800 on the Math II Subject Test and the much easier Math I Subject Test).

    However, AFAIK they don’t weight individual problems on SAT Reasoning. I.e., it’s not like you would get 10 off for missing Question 21, but 30 off for missing Question 25. They simply say, a given raw score corresponds to a given scale score. However, in a particular administration of the math subtest on the SAT Reasoning, if there is, say, some question that a huge number of people miss, then that may cause a raw score with just one wrong to have a fairly small deduction on the scale score. I think that’s how some people wound up with a 790 in those tables Joe posted.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Before 1995 scoring an 800 on the SAT Verbal test was considerably harder than on the SAT Math test.

    The reason was that math is taught in discrete chunks and the math test puts an upper limit on what subjects are asked about: e.g., no questions requiring integral calculus or differential equations to answer.

    On the other hand, high school English is not taught in separate chunks, each building on the other. It's just a continuum of harder and harder words and reading comprehension tasks. There's no rule that says everybody ought to know the meaning of "abscond" but we can't expect mere high schoolers to know the meaning of "adumbrate."

    , @artichoke
    It's correct that the scaled score is a function only of the raw score, based on number of right and wrong answers. Each question is worth the same.

    I think College Board also gives higher scores on their tests that the better students will take. Among my cohort of geeks, yeah if you don't get 800 on Math 2 you had a bad day. But there's another math achievement test, Math level 1. I think it's for kids who have not had Algebra 2. The curve on that one is much harder and, being someone that makes mistakes, I wouldn't get 800. But that's not the only example.

    As an engineer, I looked at the AP Physics B (now called Physics 1 I think) and AP Physics C exams. Physics C is for kids who are taking calculus at least concurrently. This is the best way to teach physics, because after all calculus is a math tool developed specifically for physics, back in the 1600's. It's hard to solve a lot of problems without the right math tools, so non-calculus physics has to be "about" physics, whereas with calculus you can "set up and solve" a lot more things.

    Well not only is the grading curve on the non-calc physics a lot harder, but the questions are a lot harder too! On the non-calculus exam were weird questions that I didn't know how to answer without a lot of thought. It's not how I think about those things; they seemed like puzzles to me. Whereas the physics-with-calculus questions were the normal set up and solve routine that I had been drilled in. Pretty routine. I think that with good teaching, it could become somewhat routine for bright high schooler.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  121. @keuril
    The basic issue is that the math subtest of the "old" SAT Reasoning (the 2400 scale one, which ran from 2006 until January of this year, but has now been replaced by a "new" 1600 scale SAT Reasoning) was really easy for reasonably accomplished students. Because a lot of people knew the math, a lot of people would get perfect scores (800). In order to give the test some semblance of a curve, even missing one could result in a big deduction (even though this wouldn't mean that somebody with a 770 score actually knew the math less well than somebody with an 800 score).

    By contrast, in the Math II Subject Test, the math is quite a bit harder, so one can make a lot of errors and still get an 800. I think typically one can miss around 9 on the raw score while maintaining a perfect scale score. I believe there have been some years where every enrollee at CalTech got an 800 on the Math II Subject Test, even though it's a lot harder than the SAT Reasoning Math subtest, and many people wouldn't get a perfect score there just because of a single careless mistake.

    The general rule on College Board tests is, the harder the test, the more you can miss on the raw score without getting shellacked on the scale score. Conversely, the easy tests are very unforgiving on the scale score (compare the percentiles for 800 on the Math II Subject Test and the much easier Math I Subject Test).

    However, AFAIK they don't weight individual problems on SAT Reasoning. I.e., it's not like you would get 10 off for missing Question 21, but 30 off for missing Question 25. They simply say, a given raw score corresponds to a given scale score. However, in a particular administration of the math subtest on the SAT Reasoning, if there is, say, some question that a huge number of people miss, then that may cause a raw score with just one wrong to have a fairly small deduction on the scale score. I think that's how some people wound up with a 790 in those tables Joe posted.

    Before 1995 scoring an 800 on the SAT Verbal test was considerably harder than on the SAT Math test.

    The reason was that math is taught in discrete chunks and the math test puts an upper limit on what subjects are asked about: e.g., no questions requiring integral calculus or differential equations to answer.

    On the other hand, high school English is not taught in separate chunks, each building on the other. It’s just a continuum of harder and harder words and reading comprehension tasks. There’s no rule that says everybody ought to know the meaning of “abscond” but we can’t expect mere high schoolers to know the meaning of “adumbrate.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @artichoke
    Nobody knew "dross" when I took it.
    , @Anonymous
    The kind of high-school graduates the best universities should want the SAT to select for could well know "abscond" and "adumbrate" at age 18.

    If you incline to humanities and non-technical subjects, and your IQ is 130 up, and school were still school (a place where there are teachers, a fundamental feature of a teacher being, if they see a gifted student they prompt him/her to do extra-reading and a lot of it, since standard schooling isn't designed for >130 IQ people), you'll know those words.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  122. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @oh its just me too

    " current Harvard set isn’t that it’s aristocratic, but that it is globalist."
     
    funny you should say that i was just at the harvard club (nyc) yesterday.. it was 60% chinese/indian- and it reeked of corruption and ....sleeze...

    Quite a few gold digging white women with older chinese and indian guys on what were obvious first 'meetings' I don't know if i would call them escort services, but 'date' didn't seem like a proper term either...

    Saddest part, eves dropped on a conversation where one young, pretty good looking white woman was saying marriage is an outdated institution, kids are a nuisance that get in the way of career and bring undo stress and health problems.

    How did we get to this?

    Is your wonderment genuine?

    In Dostoevsky’s Karamàzov, Christ and the Grand Inquisitor meet. The Inquisitor knows Christ’s dream is to liberate people and make them completely free, thus he explains to Christ what would be of them, the day they’d be completely free.

    As we all may have intuited on our own, the higher the IQ of a woman is, the less her biologic inclination to have offspring.
    What that Harvard female said during an Harvard club meeting has me worried infinitely less than what we see on the most popular recreational websites, from Reddit to GirlsAskGuys to tumblr.

    Saying you desire to have children is becoming a taboo, as much as saying you are Christian.
    If you socio-program women to believe it their duty to follow the trail of men and be like men, you get very different an outcome than socio-programming women to believe it their duty to give birth to children and care for the familial nest.

    The ideal solution would be not to socio-program women in one direction of its obverse.
    They’d split into groups, and many would desire to have their offspring.
    But that’s not to be hoped for. Ideologies are shaken off only when a new one takes their place.
    Not even a little bracket of freedom gets between an ideological phase and the next one.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  123. @Anonymous
    Lemann says, "So, the sort of the tragedy of Conant’s system is that some of his ideas just seem laughable today. The idea that America would become a classless society through the use of these tests. The idea that the people who score high on these tests would care only about public service and the good of the country and would be indifferent to money and power. The idea that they would be admired by ordinary people in the country. The idea that they would turn social arrangements completely upside down in the country. The idea that they would be enemies of privilege–they wouldn’t want to privilege themselves above others, they would want to wipe out all privilege in America.

    I mean, these ideas are appealing but today they just sound impossibly naïve."

    But, here Lemann is only half right.

    The system did indeed work as planned--for chemists and the like. Scientists are neither particularly well paid by Wall Street standards, nor are they power hungry grifters like some politicians with whom we are currently dealing. Scientists are selected by merit and the tests do a good job of winnowing out the less gifted. They aren't primarily motivated by greed and do see themselves as idealistically helping mankind. They would be more widely admired but are upstaged by the more needy, greedy and less talented.

    So, Lemann got some right, some wrong.

    Yeah, we dramatically underpay scientists and engineers. My whole damn engineering career, and after I got out, there was one program after another to address the “engineering shortage”. Hell pay us better and there will be enough. There were also special tax laws set up so that I could not benefit as an independent contractor the same as most others, including doctors and lawyers, could.

    Science and engineering are a way into the middle class, but only that. There are some hot areas, but usually the cartel is paying you only a little more than someone with an IQ that is 25 points or more lower.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  124. @Steve Sailer
    Before 1995 scoring an 800 on the SAT Verbal test was considerably harder than on the SAT Math test.

    The reason was that math is taught in discrete chunks and the math test puts an upper limit on what subjects are asked about: e.g., no questions requiring integral calculus or differential equations to answer.

    On the other hand, high school English is not taught in separate chunks, each building on the other. It's just a continuum of harder and harder words and reading comprehension tasks. There's no rule that says everybody ought to know the meaning of "abscond" but we can't expect mere high schoolers to know the meaning of "adumbrate."

    Nobody knew “dross” when I took it.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  125. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Before 1995 scoring an 800 on the SAT Verbal test was considerably harder than on the SAT Math test.

    The reason was that math is taught in discrete chunks and the math test puts an upper limit on what subjects are asked about: e.g., no questions requiring integral calculus or differential equations to answer.

    On the other hand, high school English is not taught in separate chunks, each building on the other. It's just a continuum of harder and harder words and reading comprehension tasks. There's no rule that says everybody ought to know the meaning of "abscond" but we can't expect mere high schoolers to know the meaning of "adumbrate."

    The kind of high-school graduates the best universities should want the SAT to select for could well know “abscond” and “adumbrate” at age 18.

    If you incline to humanities and non-technical subjects, and your IQ is 130 up, and school were still school (a place where there are teachers, a fundamental feature of a teacher being, if they see a gifted student they prompt him/her to do extra-reading and a lot of it, since standard schooling isn’t designed for >130 IQ people), you’ll know those words.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  126. @keuril
    The basic issue is that the math subtest of the "old" SAT Reasoning (the 2400 scale one, which ran from 2006 until January of this year, but has now been replaced by a "new" 1600 scale SAT Reasoning) was really easy for reasonably accomplished students. Because a lot of people knew the math, a lot of people would get perfect scores (800). In order to give the test some semblance of a curve, even missing one could result in a big deduction (even though this wouldn't mean that somebody with a 770 score actually knew the math less well than somebody with an 800 score).

    By contrast, in the Math II Subject Test, the math is quite a bit harder, so one can make a lot of errors and still get an 800. I think typically one can miss around 9 on the raw score while maintaining a perfect scale score. I believe there have been some years where every enrollee at CalTech got an 800 on the Math II Subject Test, even though it's a lot harder than the SAT Reasoning Math subtest, and many people wouldn't get a perfect score there just because of a single careless mistake.

    The general rule on College Board tests is, the harder the test, the more you can miss on the raw score without getting shellacked on the scale score. Conversely, the easy tests are very unforgiving on the scale score (compare the percentiles for 800 on the Math II Subject Test and the much easier Math I Subject Test).

    However, AFAIK they don't weight individual problems on SAT Reasoning. I.e., it's not like you would get 10 off for missing Question 21, but 30 off for missing Question 25. They simply say, a given raw score corresponds to a given scale score. However, in a particular administration of the math subtest on the SAT Reasoning, if there is, say, some question that a huge number of people miss, then that may cause a raw score with just one wrong to have a fairly small deduction on the scale score. I think that's how some people wound up with a 790 in those tables Joe posted.

    It’s correct that the scaled score is a function only of the raw score, based on number of right and wrong answers. Each question is worth the same.

    I think College Board also gives higher scores on their tests that the better students will take. Among my cohort of geeks, yeah if you don’t get 800 on Math 2 you had a bad day. But there’s another math achievement test, Math level 1. I think it’s for kids who have not had Algebra 2. The curve on that one is much harder and, being someone that makes mistakes, I wouldn’t get 800. But that’s not the only example.

    As an engineer, I looked at the AP Physics B (now called Physics 1 I think) and AP Physics C exams. Physics C is for kids who are taking calculus at least concurrently. This is the best way to teach physics, because after all calculus is a math tool developed specifically for physics, back in the 1600′s. It’s hard to solve a lot of problems without the right math tools, so non-calculus physics has to be “about” physics, whereas with calculus you can “set up and solve” a lot more things.

    Well not only is the grading curve on the non-calc physics a lot harder, but the questions are a lot harder too! On the non-calculus exam were weird questions that I didn’t know how to answer without a lot of thought. It’s not how I think about those things; they seemed like puzzles to me. Whereas the physics-with-calculus questions were the normal set up and solve routine that I had been drilled in. Pretty routine. I think that with good teaching, it could become somewhat routine for bright high schooler.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104

    I think College Board also gives higher scores on their tests that the better students will take.
     

    As an engineer, I looked at the AP Physics B (now called Physics 1 I think) and AP Physics C exams. Physics C is for kids who are taking calculus at least concurrently.
     
    Every AP exam has its own Wikipedia page. In 2016 4.3% of exam takers scored a 5 on Physics 1 while 30.2% scored a 5 on Physics C: Mechanics.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AP_Physics_1
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AP_Physics_C:_Mechanics
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  127. @education realist
    What? Not a single link to my work? I am wounded.

    "One of my concerns over the last decade is that the high end testing systems in the U.S. are falling apart under the onslaught of millions of Tiger Mothers and their progeny."

    I completely share your concern except at the high end, I believe it's already fallen apart. At this point, a competitive test system would have to be completely reworked not only to prevent cheating, but to prevent the sort of systematic gaming that allows Asians to get scores that completely misrepresent their abilities.

    I have long wondered if, at a certain point, the link between test scores and IQs break down for both blacks and Asians (particularly East Asians). I can't be sure about the new SAT yet, but the last one I no longer accepted the high abilities of any Asian kid I met with triple 800s. I knew too many who had unimpressive abilities--not low, just not top tier. I know more than one African American with a 16 ACT reading score, a 12 on the essay, and a 4 or a 5 on an AP test in English or history. The black kid with that combination is going to get identified, even if it's not a perfect system, but Asian test obsession is breaking the system.

    Leave aside the cheating for a minute. Assume, as I do, that some of the high scores is done by the ability to get a good score on the test without the underlying knowledge. This ability exists in whites (and probably to a degree in blacks and Hispanics, too). I have it. Give me a test on nuclear physics with any context clues at all, and I'll get a much better score than I should, given my underlying non-existent knowledge of nuclear physics. But in whites, this ability goes along with very high intelligence. A person of averagely high IQ (say, 110-125) doesn't usually have this ability.

    But at least in my experience, I see the ability to get a high test score (often with a lot of practice taking tests), to understand the cues and responses to a lot of new material without any retention, without any understanding of the underlying content, is incredibly common in East Asians.

    Our test system just isn't set up for that. So when Charles Murray calls for a pure test system, I don't think he knows what that means. Tom Loveless once argued that states should put out a huge database of all the test questions asked by the state tests, because even if the teachers taught the tests directly, only the strong students would remember how to do it and how to answer it. I'm like, are you completely high? And both Tom Loveless and Murray are awesome.

    Anyway. I first wrote about the gaming directly here: https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2014/04/07/sats-competitive-advantage/

    But I also wrote about the unnaturally high scores and the constant increases in Asian score percentiles here:
    https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2013/09/01/college-admissions-race-and-unintended-consequences/

    And I think you linked in my take on the Reuters piece, but here it is again for those who missed it:
    https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2016/03/29/the-sat-is-corrupt-reuters-version/

    What? Not a single link to my work? I am wounded.

    That’s because your “work” is mostly repetitive nonsense.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  128. @Joe Schmoe
    Okay, I found it.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-crit-reading-2015.pdf

    In 2015, there were 9,906 test takers who got an 800 on reading, but only 1,306 who got a 790.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-mathematics-2015.pdf

    16,668 got an 800 on the Math and 4,381 got a 790.

    So there is a significant spike at the tail of the curve. One out of twenty Asian males has an 800 Math SAT. About 11,000 nationwide. Only about 2,100 black males have a 700+ Math SAT.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-ethnicity-2015.pdf

    If there are even more scores at the top, then yes, I think that it may be true that it will be easier to reject those with top scores and it seems it will also create more "highly qualified" candidates among lower scoring minority groups. And that larger group of students with a highly qualified status could allow institutions to accept more NAM's and fewer Asians.

    In other words, they put a lower ceiling on the test. That’s how they are providing “equity” for “all students”.

    Nobody has much respect for these new SAT’s, the ceiling gets lower every time they revise them, and apparently it’s the same again. Except maybe for SJW admissions offices that may love them. I am wondering if it isn’t time for bright high schoolers to start submitting literal IQ test results.

    But they just lowered the cognitive weighting on the WISC-V vs. the WISC-IV that it just replaced! This is a conspiracy to prevent the brightest from distinguishing themselves!

    From your stats it seems like the new SAT is scored something like Math Level 2: for a good student, anything but 800 is unfortunate. There’s a traffic jam at 800.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    The lower ceiling is not what they are trying for. It's not helpful to anyone to have a whole bunch of students packed against the ceiling where you can't tell them apart. The ceiling effect is a byproduct of "recentering" . The average SAT is supposed to be 500 by definition so when the average drops below 500 due to the brownification/stupidification of America they have to add some more points to everyone's score to shift the curve to the left. For example, if they add 30 points in order to make 470 = 500, then everyone from the former 770 on up all have 800s now.

    The other artifact that is created is that, as keuril explains, getting even 1 question wrong can cause a significant drop in your (math) score. Everyone who answers all the questions right has to get an 800 but in order to get the bell curve to come out right otherwise, 1 wrong might drop your 20, 30 even 40 points. This makes the test even less meaningful at the high end and colleges have to use other means (MAT achievement tests, etc.) to distinguish high end applicants from each other.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  129. @Jack D
    Keep in mind that turn of the century Asian immigrants were from the poorest sectors of Asian societies - these were people imported as agricultural labor, ditch diggers, etc. Basically the same niche that Mexicans fill today. If Mexicans have an average IQ equal to their body temperature a century from now, I'll eat my sombrero.

    More recent Asian immigrants tend to arrive with more education than the turn of the century types and I would bet have higher IQ than the older immigrant group.

    If the turn of the century immigrants were 98.5, the recent ones much higher. The ones who come to good doctoral programs here may average 150 or more; they are extremely selected. But there are others, some to MBA programs, some to undergrad programs because they didn’t get into top universities in China or maybe were never even in the running to get into any decent university there: paying $$$ and having access to a little cheating on the SAT or GMAT or whatever, they can get admitted here without too much trouble.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  130. @oh its just me too

    " current Harvard set isn’t that it’s aristocratic, but that it is globalist."
     
    funny you should say that i was just at the harvard club (nyc) yesterday.. it was 60% chinese/indian- and it reeked of corruption and ....sleeze...

    Quite a few gold digging white women with older chinese and indian guys on what were obvious first 'meetings' I don't know if i would call them escort services, but 'date' didn't seem like a proper term either...

    Saddest part, eves dropped on a conversation where one young, pretty good looking white woman was saying marriage is an outdated institution, kids are a nuisance that get in the way of career and bring undo stress and health problems.

    How did we get to this?

    The place may have sunk to the point that the best Harvard graduates join a club that doesn’t come automatically with graduation. I am assuming the older Chinese and Indian guys were the Harvard grads, the younger white girls not associated with Harvard. But saying “I’ll take you to the Harvard Club” is probably a good way to get a date on Tinder or other online dating method.

    But if the girl doesn’t want kids, is she just in it for a one night stand? I would expect Chinese and Indian men want kids, unless they have families at home and this is just a little extra on the side.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The Harvard Club of New York has never been as exclusive or as prestigious as the Union Club, Knickerbocker Club or University Club; however, membership doesn't come automatically with graduation. There is a vetting process left over from older days that admittedly no longer excludes many people (a recent exception being Eliot Spitzer), and applicants have to pay an initiation fee and dues. The rates go up substantially starting about five years after graduation, but the club is still a bargain for those who live close enough to use it regularly.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  131. @middle aged vet
    Not a single one of the 21 Caltech alums pictured in that Wikipedia article has a BS degree more recent than 1967. A good year in science, but about two generations ago. I would not go to Caltech if I were 18 again and had outstanding math ability - it has, rightly or wrongly, a reputation of being an overly Prussian-influenced, overly hierarchical comic-opera version of a big school with too many smart badly-dressed kids (I learned that not just from the Big Bang theory but also from some smart geometricians). What really smart young scientist wants to waste 3 or 4 of his or her most creative years in that environment?Plus they charge undergrad tuition, which if they were as elite as some people claim, they would not have to do (I can understand charging for room and board and gym and cotillion fees, but why not just teach for free, at this point, and ask for an honest promise to send in alumni donations later on to cover the next generation's "tuition"? "Pay it forward" is not that difficult of a concept.)

    I’ve scanned through and not seen the following big fat fact mentioned in the comments. It was discussed in magazine articles and probably even posts here, six months or so ago.

    In China and other overseas locations, they get the same exams as we have here, but with a delay of several weeks! Not always, or maybe it’s hard to tell which exam is going to be repeated for you, but they seem not to write new questions for overseas administrations.

    This could be justified by saving money and even having a guaranteed equivalent test for comparing students. Fine.

    But then, why don’t they give the overseas administrations within the same 24 hour period as the US administrations of the same tests? It’s so easy to do this, it’s just obvious.

    Instead the overseas administrations are delayed by enough time, for test prep centers to pick up the questions from US and let overseas kids see them first.

    College Board obviously wants overseas kids to be able to cheat and have an advantage over US kids.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  132. @PiltdownMan

    At that point, the university administrators (recast as corporate executives) realized they could hike and re-hike tuition and fees into the stratosphere to pay themselves corporate wages … because the universities’ customers (students) could always borrow more money to cover the rising cost of tuition and fees. Soon, the professors got into the game. Now, obscenely-paid university executives and professors constitute an economic elite living in clusters of mansions in gated communities surrounding their universities.

    In short, the university system today does not educate students as its first order of business. It’s fairer to say that “its business is business”. It financially exploits students … charging whatever the market will bear.
     

    This gets to the heart of the matter.

    My only quibble is that there is, in fact, no "market." Universities are monopolists relative to their captive student population, and price collusion is the norm. Tuition charged by the top 50 or 100 private universities move in lockstep year after year, and are within a few hundred dollars of each other when announced every year.

    Relative to their private sector counterparts, MBA university administrators are in the enviable position of passing on all cost increases to their customers. Demand is inelastic. This is so because a college degree is essential to getting employment in the modern US economy. According to this article, out of 11.6 million jobs created in the post-crash economy, only 80,000 went to those with just a high school diploma.

    http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/30/news/economy/college-grads-jobs/

    If I were starting today in the job market with an MBA, I'd get a job as a college administrator. No shareholders to satisfy! No budgets to cut! Just add it to the tuition bill!

    Indeed, my eldest has just started college, I am keenly aware that without financial aid, the full cost of a 4 year college degree at any of the top 50 or so private colleges in the US is a bit more than 300,000 dollars. Universities have thus cottoned on to the fact that parents today are willing to empty out their pockets and decrease their net worth by as much as a third of a million dollars per child per undergraduate degree. That's firmly in rich kid/parent territory, and it is only financial aid that preserves the fiction of economic diversity in the student body.

    The system is thoroughly corrupted, and it is only a matter of time before academic and intellectual quality begin to suffer.

    The system is thoroughly corrupted, and it is only a matter of time before academic and intellectual quality begin to suffer.

    Another school of thought holds that this has already happened.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  133. @Joe Schmoe
    Okay, I found it.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-crit-reading-2015.pdf

    In 2015, there were 9,906 test takers who got an 800 on reading, but only 1,306 who got a 790.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-mathematics-2015.pdf

    16,668 got an 800 on the Math and 4,381 got a 790.

    So there is a significant spike at the tail of the curve. One out of twenty Asian males has an 800 Math SAT. About 11,000 nationwide. Only about 2,100 black males have a 700+ Math SAT.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-ethnicity-2015.pdf

    If there are even more scores at the top, then yes, I think that it may be true that it will be easier to reject those with top scores and it seems it will also create more "highly qualified" candidates among lower scoring minority groups. And that larger group of students with a highly qualified status could allow institutions to accept more NAM's and fewer Asians.

    If there are even more scores at the top, then yes, I think that it may be true that it will be easier to reject those with top scores and it seems it will also create more “highly qualified” candidates among lower scoring minority groups. And that larger group of students with a highly qualified status could allow institutions to accept more NAM’s and fewer Asians.

    In the near future I don’t see institutions accepting more NAMs. I think the higher SAT scores will simply justify the ones that they are already admitting. I think in the short term more whites will be admitted. In the US there are 12 whites for every Asian but on elite campuses there are less than three whites Americans for every Asian American.

    No matter how the deck is shuffled there are going to be fewer Asians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @artichoke
    Do you have some inside info or reasoning behind your predictions? We keep hearing so much about "all students" that I assumed NAM's would be favored. But maybe people are so sick of that now.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  134. @Anonymous
    Asians? College admission tests have been gamed by The Tribe from the beginning.

    There is a testing mafia in the northeast. Below is one quote from the article but understand "reusing questions" is just the tip of the iceberg. The insiders leak huge amounts of answers to favored disseminators. It's a large crooked network and your dumb kid can get much better scores if plugged in. Your slightly above average kid can score genius level. And at the same the media trumpets that "test preparation" doesn't really help scores!

    Sen. Chuck Schumer and many other American mediocrities have perfect SAT scores on their resumes. Figure it out.

    The SAT has proved particularly vulnerable ... Test-preparation companies obtain previously administered questions that are scheduled for reuse and feed those questions to students, who can score higher by practicing on the exam items before the test.

    Definitely not Kaplan, which everyone has and doesn’t even use actual test questions. Summit? What’s the right company to buy a prep course from?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  135. @keuril
    This is a bit of a red herring. The way the math section is scored, missing even one on the "raw score" can result in a "scale score" deduction of as much as 50, and usually 30. Thus, the normal step down from 800 is 770. There are six administrations of the SAT per year. I bet there was only one where getting one wrong on the raw score resulted in a scale score deduction of just 10 points (i.e. 790). For the other five administrations, it was literally impossible to get a 790.

    Thank you.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  136. @Triumph104

    If there are even more scores at the top, then yes, I think that it may be true that it will be easier to reject those with top scores and it seems it will also create more “highly qualified” candidates among lower scoring minority groups. And that larger group of students with a highly qualified status could allow institutions to accept more NAM’s and fewer Asians.
     
    In the near future I don't see institutions accepting more NAMs. I think the higher SAT scores will simply justify the ones that they are already admitting. I think in the short term more whites will be admitted. In the US there are 12 whites for every Asian but on elite campuses there are less than three whites Americans for every Asian American.

    No matter how the deck is shuffled there are going to be fewer Asians.

    Do you have some inside info or reasoning behind your predictions? We keep hearing so much about “all students” that I assumed NAM’s would be favored. But maybe people are so sick of that now.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Definitely no inside information. Just my opinion knowing that Harvard (and the University of North Carolina for some reason) are being sued by dozens of Asian groups regarding admission.

    I'm sure elite colleges would love to increase their NAM percentages but they are already scrapping the bottom of the barrel. I've read about black students at Wesleyan and UC Berkeley who couldn't write a coherent paragraph. A black woman got into Stanford with an SAT score below 1800/2400 and a black athlete at Harvard has a 1660/2400. Grinnell College is ending its relationship with the Posse Foundation scholarship program after the New Orleans chapter tried to send a group of students who probably belong in community college.

    Based on academic ability there is no reason why Asian Americans who are 5% of the US population should be 20% on elite campuses while whites are 60% of the US but less than 45% on campus.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  137. @artichoke
    It's correct that the scaled score is a function only of the raw score, based on number of right and wrong answers. Each question is worth the same.

    I think College Board also gives higher scores on their tests that the better students will take. Among my cohort of geeks, yeah if you don't get 800 on Math 2 you had a bad day. But there's another math achievement test, Math level 1. I think it's for kids who have not had Algebra 2. The curve on that one is much harder and, being someone that makes mistakes, I wouldn't get 800. But that's not the only example.

    As an engineer, I looked at the AP Physics B (now called Physics 1 I think) and AP Physics C exams. Physics C is for kids who are taking calculus at least concurrently. This is the best way to teach physics, because after all calculus is a math tool developed specifically for physics, back in the 1600's. It's hard to solve a lot of problems without the right math tools, so non-calculus physics has to be "about" physics, whereas with calculus you can "set up and solve" a lot more things.

    Well not only is the grading curve on the non-calc physics a lot harder, but the questions are a lot harder too! On the non-calculus exam were weird questions that I didn't know how to answer without a lot of thought. It's not how I think about those things; they seemed like puzzles to me. Whereas the physics-with-calculus questions were the normal set up and solve routine that I had been drilled in. Pretty routine. I think that with good teaching, it could become somewhat routine for bright high schooler.

    I think College Board also gives higher scores on their tests that the better students will take.

    As an engineer, I looked at the AP Physics B (now called Physics 1 I think) and AP Physics C exams. Physics C is for kids who are taking calculus at least concurrently.

    Every AP exam has its own Wikipedia page. In 2016 4.3% of exam takers scored a 5 on Physics 1 while 30.2% scored a 5 on Physics C: Mechanics.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AP_Physics_1

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AP_Physics_C:_Mechanics

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  138. @Hacienda
    Naw. A couple of years ago I and ER had a run around on this issue.
    I'm as curious about how much cheating goes on too. And if Asians
    are as poor with mathematical reasoning as ER states in spite of
    the scores.

    I pressed ER for evidence and ER admitted that he wasn't a "facts person" but more a feelz person on this matter and came up with no solid numbers or evidence
    to support his claims. So it's always the same here. Steve posts
    about Asians cheating the tests. ER comes in and drops a ton of accusations
    followed by number of me too posts and the needle never moves.
    We never find out how much Asian cheating
    happens and the actual quantity of test prepping that goes on or whether
    the test scores overestimate Asian ability. This even though Asians outperform
    on achievement type standardized tests like the SAT II, also. But ER surely has
    the intuitions to explain away these tests too, right. Like Asians forgot
    their subjects as soon as the proctor calls time.

    I pressed ER for evidence and ER admitted that he wasn’t a “facts person” but more a feelz person on this matter and came up with no solid numbers or evidence to support his claims. So it’s always the same here. Steve posts about Asians cheating the tests. ER comes in and drops a ton of accusations followed by number of me too posts and the needle never moves. We never find out how much Asian cheating happens and the actual quantity of test prepping that goes on or whether the test scores overestimate Asian ability. This even though Asians outperform on achievement type standardized tests like the SAT II, also. But ER surely has the intuitions to explain away these tests too, right. Like Asians forgot their subjects as soon as the proctor calls time.

    I am someone who believes that the level of academic cheating in a given society correlates well with the amount of corruption that exists in that society. Given that fact, it’s not at all surprising that there is a significant amount of academic cheating and credential-falsification in, say, China, but much less so in Japan (with South Korea in between the two).

    But the so-called “Education Realist” persistently tries to attach some sort of very broad-brush racial explanation for this particular phenomenon whether warranted or not. A while back, I had my own unfortunate run-in with this person on this blog as well as on Razib Khan’s. On the latter, both Mr. Khan and I asked for evidence of mismatch – that is, if Asians in America were cheating in large numbers to gain undeserved university admissions, their subsequent underperformance in college and graduate school (and in professional settings) should be observed easily. This type of mismatch is observed rather obviously, for example, among blacks who become doctors – they benefit from affirmative action to some degree to enter medical school (and get jobs). So, their mismatch – gap between credential and actual performance – shows up in the form of very high Boards failure rates among black doctors.

    When prompted by Mr. Khan and me to provide evidence of mismatch, Education Realist provided a set of links which she claimed contained evidence of such mismatch. Perhaps she thought nobody would call her on her bullshit, but I read through all of the research she cited and the conclusions in them were *contrary* to her claims. When pressed on this rather ridiculous state of affairs, she called me a bunch of names and disappeared and later re-emerged to make the same claims on another thread. Rinse and repeat.

    There is ONE study that seems to show that Asians in American universities have slightly lower averages than whites, but the study does not factor in the subjects of their studies. Given that Asians have much higher concentrations in STEM fields which generally have tougher grading and the consequently lower average grades than other fields, that factor alone would explain the slight GPA gap. Other than that, there is no evidence of mismatch AT ALL.

    Which is why now her claims have shifted from: “most Asians cheat at admissions” to “many Asians cheat at admission” to “they just keep on cheating from high school to college to grad school, hence no mismatch” (good luck cheating at engineering or physics at grad school where it would take a one-minute conversation to expose those who don’t deserve to be there) to “I wonder whether….” and ad nauseam. Ultimately, her “evidence” is “don’t believe your lying eyes, believe what I say, because, you know, I teach lots of Asian cram school kids.”

    And predictably as soon as she posts comments, a series of me-too comments emerges, with the usual “Asians are cheating soulless automatons” tripe.

    I am ethnically Asian, but I love this country above all else but God. I’ve shed blood for it. And I am of the view that large scale immigration from Asia is not desirable (and I oppose all large-scale immigration from elsewhere too). But opposition to such migration should be based on truthful, rational reasons, not this kind of evidence-deficient fodder.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    By the way, while the likes of Education Realist are railing against the dastardly Asians, cheating has become a rather endemic problem in the US, something that has been known for some time: http://www.cnn.com/2002/fyi/teachers.ednews/04/05/highschool.cheating/index.html?_s=PM:fyi

    "Cheating is a shortcut and it's a pretty efficient one in a lot of cases."

    That's not exactly the lesson most people want students to be learning in high school, but it's what 17-year-old Alice Newhall, a senior in a top high school in northern Virginia, says she believes. There's growing evidence she's not alone.

    •A national survey by Rutgers' Management Education Center of 4,500 high school students found that 75 percent of them engage in serious cheating.

    •More than half have plagiarized work they found on the Internet.

    •Perhaps most disturbing, many of them don't see anything wrong with cheating: Some 50 percent of those responding to the survey said they don't think copying questions and answers from a test is even cheating.

    Newhall, a B student at George Mason High School, says students have very little sense of moral outrage about cheating. For many, she says, the pressure to do well academically and compete for good colleges has made cheating a way to survive high school.

    "What's important is getting ahead," says Newhall. "The better grades you have, the better school you get into, the better you're going to do in life. And if you learn to cut corners to do that, you're going to be saving yourself time and energy. In the real world, that's what's going to be going on. The better you do, that's what shows. It's not how moral you were in getting there."
     
    This was from 2002. I am sure the pressures have become worse since that time.

    I attribute this to two possible reasons: first, our society has become much more competitive and, holding other variables constant, high level of competition tends to increase cheating, whether in academics or sports. The stakes are higher now, and the reward gap between the "winners" and "losers" in competition is greater than before.

    Second, there has been something of a (Christian) moral collapse over the past decades (e.g. lower church affiliation and attendance). Whether in academics, sports or other avenues of competitive life, the idea of fair play seems to be in retreat and "victory" at any cost, a sort of competitive utilitarianism, seems to be ascendant.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  139. @Twinkie

    I pressed ER for evidence and ER admitted that he wasn’t a “facts person” but more a feelz person on this matter and came up with no solid numbers or evidence to support his claims. So it’s always the same here. Steve posts about Asians cheating the tests. ER comes in and drops a ton of accusations followed by number of me too posts and the needle never moves. We never find out how much Asian cheating happens and the actual quantity of test prepping that goes on or whether the test scores overestimate Asian ability. This even though Asians outperform on achievement type standardized tests like the SAT II, also. But ER surely has the intuitions to explain away these tests too, right. Like Asians forgot their subjects as soon as the proctor calls time.
     
    I am someone who believes that the level of academic cheating in a given society correlates well with the amount of corruption that exists in that society. Given that fact, it's not at all surprising that there is a significant amount of academic cheating and credential-falsification in, say, China, but much less so in Japan (with South Korea in between the two).

    But the so-called "Education Realist" persistently tries to attach some sort of very broad-brush racial explanation for this particular phenomenon whether warranted or not. A while back, I had my own unfortunate run-in with this person on this blog as well as on Razib Khan's. On the latter, both Mr. Khan and I asked for evidence of mismatch - that is, if Asians in America were cheating in large numbers to gain undeserved university admissions, their subsequent underperformance in college and graduate school (and in professional settings) should be observed easily. This type of mismatch is observed rather obviously, for example, among blacks who become doctors - they benefit from affirmative action to some degree to enter medical school (and get jobs). So, their mismatch - gap between credential and actual performance - shows up in the form of very high Boards failure rates among black doctors.

    When prompted by Mr. Khan and me to provide evidence of mismatch, Education Realist provided a set of links which she claimed contained evidence of such mismatch. Perhaps she thought nobody would call her on her bullshit, but I read through all of the research she cited and the conclusions in them were *contrary* to her claims. When pressed on this rather ridiculous state of affairs, she called me a bunch of names and disappeared and later re-emerged to make the same claims on another thread. Rinse and repeat.

    There is ONE study that seems to show that Asians in American universities have slightly lower averages than whites, but the study does not factor in the subjects of their studies. Given that Asians have much higher concentrations in STEM fields which generally have tougher grading and the consequently lower average grades than other fields, that factor alone would explain the slight GPA gap. Other than that, there is no evidence of mismatch AT ALL.

    Which is why now her claims have shifted from: "most Asians cheat at admissions" to "many Asians cheat at admission" to "they just keep on cheating from high school to college to grad school, hence no mismatch" (good luck cheating at engineering or physics at grad school where it would take a one-minute conversation to expose those who don't deserve to be there) to "I wonder whether...." and ad nauseam. Ultimately, her "evidence" is "don't believe your lying eyes, believe what I say, because, you know, I teach lots of Asian cram school kids."

    And predictably as soon as she posts comments, a series of me-too comments emerges, with the usual "Asians are cheating soulless automatons" tripe.

    I am ethnically Asian, but I love this country above all else but God. I've shed blood for it. And I am of the view that large scale immigration from Asia is not desirable (and I oppose all large-scale immigration from elsewhere too). But opposition to such migration should be based on truthful, rational reasons, not this kind of evidence-deficient fodder.

    By the way, while the likes of Education Realist are railing against the dastardly Asians, cheating has become a rather endemic problem in the US, something that has been known for some time: http://www.cnn.com/2002/fyi/teachers.ednews/04/05/highschool.cheating/index.html?_s=PM:fyi

    “Cheating is a shortcut and it’s a pretty efficient one in a lot of cases.”

    That’s not exactly the lesson most people want students to be learning in high school, but it’s what 17-year-old Alice Newhall, a senior in a top high school in northern Virginia, says she believes. There’s growing evidence she’s not alone.

    •A national survey by Rutgers’ Management Education Center of 4,500 high school students found that 75 percent of them engage in serious cheating.

    •More than half have plagiarized work they found on the Internet.

    •Perhaps most disturbing, many of them don’t see anything wrong with cheating: Some 50 percent of those responding to the survey said they don’t think copying questions and answers from a test is even cheating.

    Newhall, a B student at George Mason High School, says students have very little sense of moral outrage about cheating. For many, she says, the pressure to do well academically and compete for good colleges has made cheating a way to survive high school.

    “What’s important is getting ahead,” says Newhall. “The better grades you have, the better school you get into, the better you’re going to do in life. And if you learn to cut corners to do that, you’re going to be saving yourself time and energy. In the real world, that’s what’s going to be going on. The better you do, that’s what shows. It’s not how moral you were in getting there.”

    This was from 2002. I am sure the pressures have become worse since that time.

    I attribute this to two possible reasons: first, our society has become much more competitive and, holding other variables constant, high level of competition tends to increase cheating, whether in academics or sports. The stakes are higher now, and the reward gap between the “winners” and “losers” in competition is greater than before.

    Second, there has been something of a (Christian) moral collapse over the past decades (e.g. lower church affiliation and attendance). Whether in academics, sports or other avenues of competitive life, the idea of fair play seems to be in retreat and “victory” at any cost, a sort of competitive utilitarianism, seems to be ascendant.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    You will be happy to know that Alice Newhall is now an attorney. She went to Tulane and attended the law school at the University of Richmond. She was a member of two honor societies at Tulane, even president of one of them.

    http://www.coltenlaw.com/attorneys/associate-attorneys/alice-e-newhall/
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  140. @artichoke
    Do you have some inside info or reasoning behind your predictions? We keep hearing so much about "all students" that I assumed NAM's would be favored. But maybe people are so sick of that now.

    Definitely no inside information. Just my opinion knowing that Harvard (and the University of North Carolina for some reason) are being sued by dozens of Asian groups regarding admission.

    I’m sure elite colleges would love to increase their NAM percentages but they are already scrapping the bottom of the barrel. I’ve read about black students at Wesleyan and UC Berkeley who couldn’t write a coherent paragraph. A black woman got into Stanford with an SAT score below 1800/2400 and a black athlete at Harvard has a 1660/2400. Grinnell College is ending its relationship with the Posse Foundation scholarship program after the New Orleans chapter tried to send a group of students who probably belong in community college.

    Based on academic ability there is no reason why Asian Americans who are 5% of the US population should be 20% on elite campuses while whites are 60% of the US but less than 45% on campus.

    Read More
    • Replies: @artichoke
    Good to hear there may be some backlash against the excesses of affirmative action in college admission. I suspect we would have to purge entire admission offices and employ new people there to change it a great deal though.

    If the average Asian-American IQ is 105 and the average white IQ is 100, that's actually a significant difference. But the Asian-American standard deviation is probably smaller, so the right tail and especially far upper tail should be mostly whites. We've had a very elite group of Asian immigrants under student visas for doctoral programs and the H1B program; I guessed their average IQ at 150 in another comment. But that really ramped up in the 1990's I think. When are their children going through the college admission process -- perhaps it's already started but it should increase. Their kids probably won't underperform. They'll be the type whose true ability isn't apparent until college.
    , @Twinkie

    Based on academic ability there is no reason why Asian Americans who are 5% of the US population should be 20% on elite campuses while whites are 60% of the US but less than 45% on campus.
     
    Because the distribution among the smart fraction is probably not 5% and 60%, respectively.

    If the IQ distribution looked anything like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/WAIS-IV_FSIQ_Scores_by_Race_and_Ethnicity.png

    You have your answer why the elite campuses are more skewed toward Asians than is warranted by their overall national population percentage.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  141. @Twinkie
    By the way, while the likes of Education Realist are railing against the dastardly Asians, cheating has become a rather endemic problem in the US, something that has been known for some time: http://www.cnn.com/2002/fyi/teachers.ednews/04/05/highschool.cheating/index.html?_s=PM:fyi

    "Cheating is a shortcut and it's a pretty efficient one in a lot of cases."

    That's not exactly the lesson most people want students to be learning in high school, but it's what 17-year-old Alice Newhall, a senior in a top high school in northern Virginia, says she believes. There's growing evidence she's not alone.

    •A national survey by Rutgers' Management Education Center of 4,500 high school students found that 75 percent of them engage in serious cheating.

    •More than half have plagiarized work they found on the Internet.

    •Perhaps most disturbing, many of them don't see anything wrong with cheating: Some 50 percent of those responding to the survey said they don't think copying questions and answers from a test is even cheating.

    Newhall, a B student at George Mason High School, says students have very little sense of moral outrage about cheating. For many, she says, the pressure to do well academically and compete for good colleges has made cheating a way to survive high school.

    "What's important is getting ahead," says Newhall. "The better grades you have, the better school you get into, the better you're going to do in life. And if you learn to cut corners to do that, you're going to be saving yourself time and energy. In the real world, that's what's going to be going on. The better you do, that's what shows. It's not how moral you were in getting there."
     
    This was from 2002. I am sure the pressures have become worse since that time.

    I attribute this to two possible reasons: first, our society has become much more competitive and, holding other variables constant, high level of competition tends to increase cheating, whether in academics or sports. The stakes are higher now, and the reward gap between the "winners" and "losers" in competition is greater than before.

    Second, there has been something of a (Christian) moral collapse over the past decades (e.g. lower church affiliation and attendance). Whether in academics, sports or other avenues of competitive life, the idea of fair play seems to be in retreat and "victory" at any cost, a sort of competitive utilitarianism, seems to be ascendant.

    You will be happy to know that Alice Newhall is now an attorney. She went to Tulane and attended the law school at the University of Richmond. She was a member of two honor societies at Tulane, even president of one of them.

    http://www.coltenlaw.com/attorneys/associate-attorneys/alice-e-newhall/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    You will be happy to know that Alice Newhall is now an attorney. She went to Tulane and attended the law school at the University of Richmond. She was a member of two honor societies at Tulane, even president of one of them.
     
    One would hope that she changed her views, but somehow I remain pessimistic.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  142. Why can’t the Chinese create their own elite colleges and quit invading and scamming us? I find it kind of strange that the next big thing, the blooming superpower that has already surpassed our GDP based on PPP, can’t even provide a respectable education to its citizens. When we were at the relative peak of our powers we weren’t sending our students to China and India to get educated. The only similar example that springs to mind is the Romans sending their sons to Athens to finish their schooling, but they were related culturally and the Greeks had the more established intellectual tradition.

    Is China a hypejob?

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    [Why can’t the Chinese create their own elite colleges and quit invading and scamming us?]

    This is a question like the one from the Onion, "Why do all these homosexuals keep sucking my cock?"
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  143. @PiltdownMan
    There are some curious dips in the math scores—at 760, 780, and 790. Are these an artifact of the way the questions are marked? That is, are the hardest questions likely to lose you 10, 20, or 40 points if you get them wrong, but not 30 or 50 points?

    Yes and no. All questions are weighted the same, but of course the hardest questions are the ones that people are most likely to get wrong. As keuril explained, the conversion from raw score to scaled score differs with each test version so that 1 wrong answer on the math SAT (which will probably but not necessarily be on one of the harder questions) will get you some variable # of points taken off depending on the curve for that particular version.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  144. @Connecticut Famer
    I am asking: Does the SAT measures the test-taker's verbal and math levels. Or does it measure how "intelligent" he/she is. It is supposed to measure the former, not the latter. The SAT was never meant to be an IQ test (i.e. the equivalent of the Stanford-Binet). However, as suggested in the Lehmann excerpt referred to above, in fact that is how it is treated. And that, precisely, is the problem which gives rise to such controversies as the "Regatta-type question" , which clearly assumes significance because it implies that a person of limited access to the wider world (or possibly none) --our Inuit Eskimo for example--is not "intelligent" when his/her experience does not take into account the existence of such as cacti and deserts. That has been the argument made by the SJW crowd in justifying changing the SAT. I hate to state the obvious but nevertheless it has to be said: Education and intelligence are not the same thing. A person who is highly intelligent may not have sufficient education (both on the classroom level and life experience level) to do college work. The SJW crowd may have a point about the Regatta question, but it is what it is and to allow kids to attend college who are demonstrably unable to handle college-level classwork, regardless of how much raw intelligence they may, have is definitely not a solution to a problem that may in the long run be insoluble.

    Regatta-type question” , which clearly assumes significance because it implies that a person of limited access to the wider world (or possibly none)

    The Regatta thing was BS. I’ve never been on a yacht to this day but I know what a regatta is the same way I know what an igloo is and what a cassava is – I read about them in books.

    They got rid of analogies on the SAT because it was more heavily “g” loaded than other sections – more of a pure intelligence test, despite the need to know the meaning of words like “regatta” . Blacks do poorly on g loaded tasks. You can memorize a list of vocabulary words but you can never memorize how to understand an analogy.

    You can try to make a test less g loaded but it’s basically impossible unless you turn it into a test of dribbling ability or knowledge of rap lyrics. Education and intelligence are two sides of the same coin – intelligent people are more educable.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  145. @artichoke
    In other words, they put a lower ceiling on the test. That's how they are providing "equity" for "all students".

    Nobody has much respect for these new SAT's, the ceiling gets lower every time they revise them, and apparently it's the same again. Except maybe for SJW admissions offices that may love them. I am wondering if it isn't time for bright high schoolers to start submitting literal IQ test results.

    But they just lowered the cognitive weighting on the WISC-V vs. the WISC-IV that it just replaced! This is a conspiracy to prevent the brightest from distinguishing themselves!

    From your stats it seems like the new SAT is scored something like Math Level 2: for a good student, anything but 800 is unfortunate. There's a traffic jam at 800.

    The lower ceiling is not what they are trying for. It’s not helpful to anyone to have a whole bunch of students packed against the ceiling where you can’t tell them apart. The ceiling effect is a byproduct of “recentering” . The average SAT is supposed to be 500 by definition so when the average drops below 500 due to the brownification/stupidification of America they have to add some more points to everyone’s score to shift the curve to the left. For example, if they add 30 points in order to make 470 = 500, then everyone from the former 770 on up all have 800s now.

    The other artifact that is created is that, as keuril explains, getting even 1 question wrong can cause a significant drop in your (math) score. Everyone who answers all the questions right has to get an 800 but in order to get the bell curve to come out right otherwise, 1 wrong might drop your 20, 30 even 40 points. This makes the test even less meaningful at the high end and colleges have to use other means (MAT achievement tests, etc.) to distinguish high end applicants from each other.

    Read More
    • Replies: @artichoke
    Since you think you know "what they are trying for" (or not trying for) let me suggest they are trying for exactly that traffic jam at 800, among their multifaceted goals for New SAT. After all, if they didn't want it, even after recentering they could just raise the highest possible test score, say to 900. When I took the GRE the max was 900, so Educational Testing Service has done this in the past. They have different scales and ceilings on many of their tests.

    We've already established that there has been a consistent move to reduce g loading on these tests. There is definitely a SJW movement among test makers and admissions officers, and a check into David Coleman's background will make it clear that he's a part of that movement. By creating a large clump of kids at 800, you may be able to get some "talented 1%" URM's in there. They are not as good as the top 1% of white and Asian kids, but they're maybe top 5%, and there's a chance they could get an 800. Now you've got a URM kid with 800 on the SAT, and it's guaranteed he or she will be admitted anywhere regardless of how mediocre otherwise. This may be the goal, to increase or maintain URM representation at top universities, even if affirmative action comes under new pressure. If a 36 on the ACT is too hard, maybe they want 800 on the SAT to be easier. I'd be interested in a comparison of that by the way.

    If by "MAT achievement tests" you mean the Math Level 2 achievement test, that's the "poster child" for the traffic jam at 800. When I took it in the 1970's, an 800 was a 92 percentile score -- granted among the selected group of kids who had had Algebra 2 and took that test, but still, that's a heck of a traffic jam. AP tests are a little better (Calculus, not Stats) and now there are AMC scores and such for kids who really get into it. Or, as I said, maybe kids will feel the need to pay for IQ testing and send the score if it's good.

    , @res

    The lower ceiling is not what they are trying for. It’s not helpful to anyone to have a whole bunch of students packed against the ceiling where you can’t tell them apart.
     
    I agree with most of what you've written in this thread, but I disagree about the lack of desire for a low ceiling. I think that makes it easier for colleges to pick and choose among high scorers using their own arbitrary reasons without making it obvious that some categories of the highest scorers are disfavored. Agreed that it does make it harder to distinguish between the best, I'm just arguing that that is more often considered a feature than a bug (since, as you say, alternate measures can be added when desired).

    IMHO it's just a less egregious form of dumbing down job tests (both mental and physical, e.g. firefighters) so much that almost everyone passes and employees can be selected using other criteria (race, sex, nepotism, lottery, etc.).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  146. @Jack D
    The lower ceiling is not what they are trying for. It's not helpful to anyone to have a whole bunch of students packed against the ceiling where you can't tell them apart. The ceiling effect is a byproduct of "recentering" . The average SAT is supposed to be 500 by definition so when the average drops below 500 due to the brownification/stupidification of America they have to add some more points to everyone's score to shift the curve to the left. For example, if they add 30 points in order to make 470 = 500, then everyone from the former 770 on up all have 800s now.

    The other artifact that is created is that, as keuril explains, getting even 1 question wrong can cause a significant drop in your (math) score. Everyone who answers all the questions right has to get an 800 but in order to get the bell curve to come out right otherwise, 1 wrong might drop your 20, 30 even 40 points. This makes the test even less meaningful at the high end and colleges have to use other means (MAT achievement tests, etc.) to distinguish high end applicants from each other.

    Since you think you know “what they are trying for” (or not trying for) let me suggest they are trying for exactly that traffic jam at 800, among their multifaceted goals for New SAT. After all, if they didn’t want it, even after recentering they could just raise the highest possible test score, say to 900. When I took the GRE the max was 900, so Educational Testing Service has done this in the past. They have different scales and ceilings on many of their tests.

    We’ve already established that there has been a consistent move to reduce g loading on these tests. There is definitely a SJW movement among test makers and admissions officers, and a check into David Coleman’s background will make it clear that he’s a part of that movement. By creating a large clump of kids at 800, you may be able to get some “talented 1%” URM’s in there. They are not as good as the top 1% of white and Asian kids, but they’re maybe top 5%, and there’s a chance they could get an 800. Now you’ve got a URM kid with 800 on the SAT, and it’s guaranteed he or she will be admitted anywhere regardless of how mediocre otherwise. This may be the goal, to increase or maintain URM representation at top universities, even if affirmative action comes under new pressure. If a 36 on the ACT is too hard, maybe they want 800 on the SAT to be easier. I’d be interested in a comparison of that by the way.

    If by “MAT achievement tests” you mean the Math Level 2 achievement test, that’s the “poster child” for the traffic jam at 800. When I took it in the 1970′s, an 800 was a 92 percentile score — granted among the selected group of kids who had had Algebra 2 and took that test, but still, that’s a heck of a traffic jam. AP tests are a little better (Calculus, not Stats) and now there are AMC scores and such for kids who really get into it. Or, as I said, maybe kids will feel the need to pay for IQ testing and send the score if it’s good.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  147. @Triumph104
    Definitely no inside information. Just my opinion knowing that Harvard (and the University of North Carolina for some reason) are being sued by dozens of Asian groups regarding admission.

    I'm sure elite colleges would love to increase their NAM percentages but they are already scrapping the bottom of the barrel. I've read about black students at Wesleyan and UC Berkeley who couldn't write a coherent paragraph. A black woman got into Stanford with an SAT score below 1800/2400 and a black athlete at Harvard has a 1660/2400. Grinnell College is ending its relationship with the Posse Foundation scholarship program after the New Orleans chapter tried to send a group of students who probably belong in community college.

    Based on academic ability there is no reason why Asian Americans who are 5% of the US population should be 20% on elite campuses while whites are 60% of the US but less than 45% on campus.

    Good to hear there may be some backlash against the excesses of affirmative action in college admission. I suspect we would have to purge entire admission offices and employ new people there to change it a great deal though.

    If the average Asian-American IQ is 105 and the average white IQ is 100, that’s actually a significant difference. But the Asian-American standard deviation is probably smaller, so the right tail and especially far upper tail should be mostly whites. We’ve had a very elite group of Asian immigrants under student visas for doctoral programs and the H1B program; I guessed their average IQ at 150 in another comment. But that really ramped up in the 1990′s I think. When are their children going through the college admission process — perhaps it’s already started but it should increase. Their kids probably won’t underperform. They’ll be the type whose true ability isn’t apparent until college.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    We’ve had a very elite group of Asian immigrants under student visas for doctoral programs and the H1B program; I guessed their average IQ at 150 in another comment.
     


    If you have actually met a few groups of H1B types in any number, you would be guessing, oh, about 95 for average IQ. The program is broken and is overrun by mediocrities, or even the dregs, seemingly, of the labor supply of Indian professionals.
    , @Twinkie

    If the average Asian-American IQ is 105 and the average white IQ is 100, that’s actually a significant difference. But the Asian-American standard deviation is probably smaller, so the right tail and especially far upper tail should be mostly whites.
     
    According to Steve Hsu, the Asian-American SAT score/IQ deviation is higher, not lower than whites.

    The idea of the smart fraction being bigger among whites than Asians is frequently asserted by white supremacists, but remains unproven.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  148. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    "One of the texts, discovered in Qingdao, is thought to be the smallest book ever found in Eastern China. The 160 page text is two-and-a-half inches long and under two inches wide and can fit into a matchbox. It contains 140,000 characters drawn from exam texts.

    The other book, found on the southern island of Hainan, is slightly larger but contains 32 million characters over 32 pages."

    Let's do a little arithmetic. (Check my arithmetic!) 140,000 characters/160 pages = 875 char/page. 1 inch = 25.4 millimeters, so the area of a page is 2.5 in * 2 in = 2.5*25.4 mm * 2*25.4 mm = 3225.8 sq mm, so the area of each character is no more than 3225.8/875 = 3.69 sq mm, which is a square (Chinese characters fill a square space) of side sqrt(3.69 sq mm) = 1.9 mm on a side. Is your eyesight good enough to read a character that is less than 2 mm high and wide? And is your pinhead calligraphy good enough to prepare a cheat-sheet in which you can fit the 15-stroke character 賞 (which means "prize") inside a 2x2-mm square?

    The other cheat-sheet book has 1 million characters on a page of area about 3x3 inches = 9 square inches, leaving 9*10-6 sq in per character. This means fitting each character into a square of side 3*10^-3 inches =.003 inch * .00254 m/inch = 7.62*10^-6 m = 7.62 micrometers. That's pretty tiny.

    and that’s leaving no white space (is that racist?)

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  149. @artichoke
    Good to hear there may be some backlash against the excesses of affirmative action in college admission. I suspect we would have to purge entire admission offices and employ new people there to change it a great deal though.

    If the average Asian-American IQ is 105 and the average white IQ is 100, that's actually a significant difference. But the Asian-American standard deviation is probably smaller, so the right tail and especially far upper tail should be mostly whites. We've had a very elite group of Asian immigrants under student visas for doctoral programs and the H1B program; I guessed their average IQ at 150 in another comment. But that really ramped up in the 1990's I think. When are their children going through the college admission process -- perhaps it's already started but it should increase. Their kids probably won't underperform. They'll be the type whose true ability isn't apparent until college.

    We’ve had a very elite group of Asian immigrants under student visas for doctoral programs and the H1B program; I guessed their average IQ at 150 in another comment.

    If you have actually met a few groups of H1B types in any number, you would be guessing, oh, about 95 for average IQ. The program is broken and is overrun by mediocrities, or even the dregs, seemingly, of the labor supply of Indian professionals.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  150. @Anonymous
    It's almost three times as easy to get into CalTech as a female than as a male (16% vs 6%). And that probably understates the difference between the applicant pools—although CalTech doesn't publish a breakdown by sexes of average scores on the SAT, Subject Tests, APs, as well as which sex got what percentage of the most prestigious awards (international math and science Olympiad participation, Intel Science, etc), it seems likely that these are all much higher among admitted males than females. Thus, CalTech (and MIT, Harvey Mudd, etc) offer white and Asian females one of their very few chances at affirmative action in college admissions. If you've read Mismatch, you'll know this isn't always a good thing.

    It is however a good thing for the male students, who now have an outside shot of losing their virginity by 22.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  151. @Amasius
    Why can't the Chinese create their own elite colleges and quit invading and scamming us? I find it kind of strange that the next big thing, the blooming superpower that has already surpassed our GDP based on PPP, can't even provide a respectable education to its citizens. When we were at the relative peak of our powers we weren't sending our students to China and India to get educated. The only similar example that springs to mind is the Romans sending their sons to Athens to finish their schooling, but they were related culturally and the Greeks had the more established intellectual tradition.

    Is China a hypejob?

    [Why can’t the Chinese create their own elite colleges and quit invading and scamming us?]

    This is a question like the one from the Onion, “Why do all these homosexuals keep sucking my cock?”

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  152. @Jack D
    The lower ceiling is not what they are trying for. It's not helpful to anyone to have a whole bunch of students packed against the ceiling where you can't tell them apart. The ceiling effect is a byproduct of "recentering" . The average SAT is supposed to be 500 by definition so when the average drops below 500 due to the brownification/stupidification of America they have to add some more points to everyone's score to shift the curve to the left. For example, if they add 30 points in order to make 470 = 500, then everyone from the former 770 on up all have 800s now.

    The other artifact that is created is that, as keuril explains, getting even 1 question wrong can cause a significant drop in your (math) score. Everyone who answers all the questions right has to get an 800 but in order to get the bell curve to come out right otherwise, 1 wrong might drop your 20, 30 even 40 points. This makes the test even less meaningful at the high end and colleges have to use other means (MAT achievement tests, etc.) to distinguish high end applicants from each other.

    The lower ceiling is not what they are trying for. It’s not helpful to anyone to have a whole bunch of students packed against the ceiling where you can’t tell them apart.

    I agree with most of what you’ve written in this thread, but I disagree about the lack of desire for a low ceiling. I think that makes it easier for colleges to pick and choose among high scorers using their own arbitrary reasons without making it obvious that some categories of the highest scorers are disfavored. Agreed that it does make it harder to distinguish between the best, I’m just arguing that that is more often considered a feature than a bug (since, as you say, alternate measures can be added when desired).

    IMHO it’s just a less egregious form of dumbing down job tests (both mental and physical, e.g. firefighters) so much that almost everyone passes and employees can be selected using other criteria (race, sex, nepotism, lottery, etc.).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Pinker has argued that Harvard admissions should strive for academic superstars rather than satisficing, but Harvard seems well pleased with their current crop.

    Ivy League schools and their peers like MIT long had a cartel, The Overlap Committee, to make sure nobody was hogging all the good students by offering too much financial aid.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  153. @res

    The lower ceiling is not what they are trying for. It’s not helpful to anyone to have a whole bunch of students packed against the ceiling where you can’t tell them apart.
     
    I agree with most of what you've written in this thread, but I disagree about the lack of desire for a low ceiling. I think that makes it easier for colleges to pick and choose among high scorers using their own arbitrary reasons without making it obvious that some categories of the highest scorers are disfavored. Agreed that it does make it harder to distinguish between the best, I'm just arguing that that is more often considered a feature than a bug (since, as you say, alternate measures can be added when desired).

    IMHO it's just a less egregious form of dumbing down job tests (both mental and physical, e.g. firefighters) so much that almost everyone passes and employees can be selected using other criteria (race, sex, nepotism, lottery, etc.).

    Pinker has argued that Harvard admissions should strive for academic superstars rather than satisficing, but Harvard seems well pleased with their current crop.

    Ivy League schools and their peers like MIT long had a cartel, The Overlap Committee, to make sure nobody was hogging all the good students by offering too much financial aid.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  154. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @oh its just me too

    " current Harvard set isn’t that it’s aristocratic, but that it is globalist."
     
    funny you should say that i was just at the harvard club (nyc) yesterday.. it was 60% chinese/indian- and it reeked of corruption and ....sleeze...

    Quite a few gold digging white women with older chinese and indian guys on what were obvious first 'meetings' I don't know if i would call them escort services, but 'date' didn't seem like a proper term either...

    Saddest part, eves dropped on a conversation where one young, pretty good looking white woman was saying marriage is an outdated institution, kids are a nuisance that get in the way of career and bring undo stress and health problems.

    How did we get to this?

    The Harvard Club of New York City allows external organizations and individual non-members lacking any Harvard ties to rent club space for special events including conferences and weddings. Are you sure that some of those people that you saw weren’t at the club for a special event or a wedding?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  155. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @artichoke
    The place may have sunk to the point that the best Harvard graduates join a club that doesn't come automatically with graduation. I am assuming the older Chinese and Indian guys were the Harvard grads, the younger white girls not associated with Harvard. But saying "I'll take you to the Harvard Club" is probably a good way to get a date on Tinder or other online dating method.

    But if the girl doesn't want kids, is she just in it for a one night stand? I would expect Chinese and Indian men want kids, unless they have families at home and this is just a little extra on the side.

    The Harvard Club of New York has never been as exclusive or as prestigious as the Union Club, Knickerbocker Club or University Club; however, membership doesn’t come automatically with graduation. There is a vetting process left over from older days that admittedly no longer excludes many people (a recent exception being Eliot Spitzer), and applicants have to pay an initiation fee and dues. The rates go up substantially starting about five years after graduation, but the club is still a bargain for those who live close enough to use it regularly.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Jamie Johnson: The "Diversity" of Wasp Clubs

    http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2008/05/jamie-johnson-1


    In Manhattan, which is typically considered to be one of the most progressive and diverse cities in the country, there remain about six or seven exclusive Wasp clubs. Long-standing members of these clubs tell me that they stopped discriminating against non-Wasps around 1960. One former official at the well-known Knickerbocker Club said that he proposed the first Jewish member to “the Knick” in the 60s, because he thought the institution was suffering from its antiquated values. He went on to say that the Knickerbocker currently has several Jewish and African-American members. He also acknowledged, however, that they form a very small percentage of the club’s membership.
     

    Ironically, it seems the distinctions Wasps systematically used to raise their status and maintain a stranglehold on power have ultimately come back around to limit and weaken them. “Yes, changes were made out of necessity,” a distinguished old-guard Wasp told me. “The people controlling the clubs were not the people controlling the world anymore.”
     
    Harmonic Divergence: The Wealthy Are Dropping the Dalai Lama’s Name, Literally
    http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2011/07/harmonic-divergence-wealthy-dropping-the-dalai-lamas-name-literally

    Like the president, a rising number of international billionaires have begun to worry that backing the Dalai Lama could pose a risk to their personal wealth by potentially limiting access to lucrative markets in China. [...] Sadly, China’s increasing sway over our economy compromises the Dalai Lama’s ability to attract wealthy American patrons. The opportunity to make money is something billionaires simply can’t resist—even if giving in to that persistent urge means shunning an enlightened spiritual guru.
     
    The Late, Great American WASP
    The old U.S. ruling class had plenty of problems. But are we really better off with a country run by the self-involved, over-schooled products of modern meritocracy?
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304367204579268301043949952

    Having been a good student, no matter how good the reputation of the school—and most of the good schools, we are coming to learn, are good chiefly in reputation—is no indication of one's quality or promise as a leader. A good student might even be more than a bit of a follower, a conformist, standing ready to give satisfaction to the powers that be so that one can proceed to the next good school, taking another step up the ladder of meritocracy.

    What our new meritocrats have failed to evince—and what the older WASP generation prided itself on—is character and the ability to put the well-being of the nation before their own. Character embodied in honorable action is at the heart of the novels and stories of Louis Auchincloss, America's last unembarrassedly WASP writer. Doing the right thing, especially in the face of temptations to do otherwise, was the WASP test par excellence.Most of our meritocrats, by contrast, seem to be in business for themselves.
     

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  156. @Sunbeam
    He spent a year or so there in the 60's.

    I used to have a copy of his lectures on physics (that was the title or something like it). This was a collection of his lectures and problem sets to the FRESHMAN class (if memory serves). Again if my memory is correct it was a set of three or so books; my version was softback with some kind of brilliant orange cover.

    When I had these, it was trivial for me to read and work through problems for a first physics course, something like the Halliday and Resnick text that's been around a long time and was popular at a lot of schools.

    Couldn't do much with the Feynman lectures or his problem sets. Looking back it seems to me that he thought of subjects I was very familiar with in very different ways than I was used to.

    Halliday and Resnick. Boy, that brings back memories. I tried really hard in Physics at Berkeley, but I barely passed. Made me realize that I wouldn’t get a degree in Chemistry after all. Oh well, Microbiology turned out to be okay for me.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    The difference between Halliday and Resnick and the three volume Feynman Lectures in Physics was explained to me in a striking way by a relative who is a particle physicist who is also a much loved teacher of the subject.

    A young student who masters Halliday and Resnick gets a solid understanding of physics at an undergraduate level. One who reads Feynman absorbs it into his bones and becomes an undergraduate physicist.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  157. @Anonymous
    The Harvard Club of New York has never been as exclusive or as prestigious as the Union Club, Knickerbocker Club or University Club; however, membership doesn't come automatically with graduation. There is a vetting process left over from older days that admittedly no longer excludes many people (a recent exception being Eliot Spitzer), and applicants have to pay an initiation fee and dues. The rates go up substantially starting about five years after graduation, but the club is still a bargain for those who live close enough to use it regularly.

    Jamie Johnson: The “Diversity” of Wasp Clubs

    http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2008/05/jamie-johnson-1

    In Manhattan, which is typically considered to be one of the most progressive and diverse cities in the country, there remain about six or seven exclusive Wasp clubs. Long-standing members of these clubs tell me that they stopped discriminating against non-Wasps around 1960. One former official at the well-known Knickerbocker Club said that he proposed the first Jewish member to “the Knick” in the 60s, because he thought the institution was suffering from its antiquated values. He went on to say that the Knickerbocker currently has several Jewish and African-American members. He also acknowledged, however, that they form a very small percentage of the club’s membership.

    Ironically, it seems the distinctions Wasps systematically used to raise their status and maintain a stranglehold on power have ultimately come back around to limit and weaken them. “Yes, changes were made out of necessity,” a distinguished old-guard Wasp told me. “The people controlling the clubs were not the people controlling the world anymore.”

    Harmonic Divergence: The Wealthy Are Dropping the Dalai Lama’s Name, Literally

    http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2011/07/harmonic-divergence-wealthy-dropping-the-dalai-lamas-name-literally

    Like the president, a rising number of international billionaires have begun to worry that backing the Dalai Lama could pose a risk to their personal wealth by potentially limiting access to lucrative markets in China. [...] Sadly, China’s increasing sway over our economy compromises the Dalai Lama’s ability to attract wealthy American patrons. The opportunity to make money is something billionaires simply can’t resist—even if giving in to that persistent urge means shunning an enlightened spiritual guru.

    The Late, Great American WASP
    The old U.S. ruling class had plenty of problems. But are we really better off with a country run by the self-involved, over-schooled products of modern meritocracy?

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304367204579268301043949952

    Having been a good student, no matter how good the reputation of the school—and most of the good schools, we are coming to learn, are good chiefly in reputation—is no indication of one’s quality or promise as a leader. A good student might even be more than a bit of a follower, a conformist, standing ready to give satisfaction to the powers that be so that one can proceed to the next good school, taking another step up the ladder of meritocracy.

    What our new meritocrats have failed to evince—and what the older WASP generation prided itself on—is character and the ability to put the well-being of the nation before their own. Character embodied in honorable action is at the heart of the novels and stories of Louis Auchincloss, America’s last unembarrassedly WASP writer. Doing the right thing, especially in the face of temptations to do otherwise, was the WASP test par excellence.Most of our meritocrats, by contrast, seem to be in business for themselves.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  158. @Triumph104
    You will be happy to know that Alice Newhall is now an attorney. She went to Tulane and attended the law school at the University of Richmond. She was a member of two honor societies at Tulane, even president of one of them.

    http://www.coltenlaw.com/attorneys/associate-attorneys/alice-e-newhall/

    You will be happy to know that Alice Newhall is now an attorney. She went to Tulane and attended the law school at the University of Richmond. She was a member of two honor societies at Tulane, even president of one of them.

    One would hope that she changed her views, but somehow I remain pessimistic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @artichoke
    She's a lawyer. Her personality has been destroyed, whatever it used to be.

    She works in Family Court. OMG her personality must really be destroyed.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  159. @artichoke
    Good to hear there may be some backlash against the excesses of affirmative action in college admission. I suspect we would have to purge entire admission offices and employ new people there to change it a great deal though.

    If the average Asian-American IQ is 105 and the average white IQ is 100, that's actually a significant difference. But the Asian-American standard deviation is probably smaller, so the right tail and especially far upper tail should be mostly whites. We've had a very elite group of Asian immigrants under student visas for doctoral programs and the H1B program; I guessed their average IQ at 150 in another comment. But that really ramped up in the 1990's I think. When are their children going through the college admission process -- perhaps it's already started but it should increase. Their kids probably won't underperform. They'll be the type whose true ability isn't apparent until college.

    If the average Asian-American IQ is 105 and the average white IQ is 100, that’s actually a significant difference. But the Asian-American standard deviation is probably smaller, so the right tail and especially far upper tail should be mostly whites.

    According to Steve Hsu, the Asian-American SAT score/IQ deviation is higher, not lower than whites.

    The idea of the smart fraction being bigger among whites than Asians is frequently asserted by white supremacists, but remains unproven.

    Read More
    • Replies: @artichoke
    It's asserted I suppose by white supremacists and other people who can make reasonable estimates. There are a lot more whites in the USA, and whites have invented most of what everyone in the world uses, so whites are probably as likely per capita to end up way in the right tail.

    Maybe it would have been asserted by Hitler too.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  160. @Triumph104
    Definitely no inside information. Just my opinion knowing that Harvard (and the University of North Carolina for some reason) are being sued by dozens of Asian groups regarding admission.

    I'm sure elite colleges would love to increase their NAM percentages but they are already scrapping the bottom of the barrel. I've read about black students at Wesleyan and UC Berkeley who couldn't write a coherent paragraph. A black woman got into Stanford with an SAT score below 1800/2400 and a black athlete at Harvard has a 1660/2400. Grinnell College is ending its relationship with the Posse Foundation scholarship program after the New Orleans chapter tried to send a group of students who probably belong in community college.

    Based on academic ability there is no reason why Asian Americans who are 5% of the US population should be 20% on elite campuses while whites are 60% of the US but less than 45% on campus.

    Based on academic ability there is no reason why Asian Americans who are 5% of the US population should be 20% on elite campuses while whites are 60% of the US but less than 45% on campus.

    Because the distribution among the smart fraction is probably not 5% and 60%, respectively.

    If the IQ distribution looked anything like this:

    You have your answer why the elite campuses are more skewed toward Asians than is warranted by their overall national population percentage.

    Read More
    • Replies: @artichoke
    Indeed, but I've never heard anyone say it looks like that. Whites there have the lowest standard deviation of IQ's, which I had not heard of before. Where does that come from?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  161. @Formerly CARealist
    Halliday and Resnick. Boy, that brings back memories. I tried really hard in Physics at Berkeley, but I barely passed. Made me realize that I wouldn't get a degree in Chemistry after all. Oh well, Microbiology turned out to be okay for me.

    The difference between Halliday and Resnick and the three volume Feynman Lectures in Physics was explained to me in a striking way by a relative who is a particle physicist who is also a much loved teacher of the subject.

    A young student who masters Halliday and Resnick gets a solid understanding of physics at an undergraduate level. One who reads Feynman absorbs it into his bones and becomes an undergraduate physicist.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  162. @Twinkie

    If the average Asian-American IQ is 105 and the average white IQ is 100, that’s actually a significant difference. But the Asian-American standard deviation is probably smaller, so the right tail and especially far upper tail should be mostly whites.
     
    According to Steve Hsu, the Asian-American SAT score/IQ deviation is higher, not lower than whites.

    The idea of the smart fraction being bigger among whites than Asians is frequently asserted by white supremacists, but remains unproven.

    It’s asserted I suppose by white supremacists and other people who can make reasonable estimates. There are a lot more whites in the USA, and whites have invented most of what everyone in the world uses, so whites are probably as likely per capita to end up way in the right tail.

    Maybe it would have been asserted by Hitler too.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  163. @Twinkie

    You will be happy to know that Alice Newhall is now an attorney. She went to Tulane and attended the law school at the University of Richmond. She was a member of two honor societies at Tulane, even president of one of them.
     
    One would hope that she changed her views, but somehow I remain pessimistic.

    She’s a lawyer. Her personality has been destroyed, whatever it used to be.

    She works in Family Court. OMG her personality must really be destroyed.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  164. @PiltdownMan

    In the United States a student can fail their International Baccalaureate exams and still graduate high school and go to college with no problem.
     
    The International Baccalaureate or IB, a program designed for the last two years of high school, has nothing to do with the French baccalauréat which is now sclerotic. While the IB has acquired its cachet in the last decade by reason of having been adopted by numerous international schools overseas populated by the high achieving children of professional expatriates, almost 2/3 of the students in the IB system are US based.

    The IB is offered in two versions, the non-diploma course which has no final exams, and the diploma version, which rigorously tests the students on the entirety of the high-school syllabus in a series of 12 to 15 two hour exams.

    US colleges like the IB and value it more than the AP, but make their admissions decisions well before the final written essay-style IB exams which are taken by the student in May, at the end of the final term of high school.

    Accordingly, IB scores, which really separate the wheat from the chaff, academically speaking, are not considered by US colleges-just the coursework and in-class grades. That's their loss, and not a flaw of the IB syllabus or system. Many US colleges do give credit for good grades in the IB exam results though, with Harvard offering potentially an exemption of up to 18 credits, depending on the scores achieved.

    Colleges would only see AP scores earned before senior year. I guess that would be quite a few now for some students, but when I went to high school, I took one AP course, calculus as a senior. And that was considered pretty good at the time. And I got a semester’s acceleration from it. Now kids can place out of a lot of things via AP.

    IB seems to be a lot of project work, just a lot of work from what I’ve heard. And in return, do they get any acceleration?

    Officially colleges all seem neutral on AP vs. IB. If you’re given a choice at your HS, do they really sort of expect you to choose the IB?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  165. Does he have an opinion on Kleppner & Kolenkow? That’s what I had for mechanics. The math worked out so smooth, but I didn’t really get just how “mechanical” the process they’re teaching is, until it sort of hit me a year or two later.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  166. @Twinkie

    Based on academic ability there is no reason why Asian Americans who are 5% of the US population should be 20% on elite campuses while whites are 60% of the US but less than 45% on campus.
     
    Because the distribution among the smart fraction is probably not 5% and 60%, respectively.

    If the IQ distribution looked anything like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/WAIS-IV_FSIQ_Scores_by_Race_and_Ethnicity.png

    You have your answer why the elite campuses are more skewed toward Asians than is warranted by their overall national population percentage.

    Indeed, but I’ve never heard anyone say it looks like that. Whites there have the lowest standard deviation of IQ’s, which I had not heard of before. Where does that come from?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Do a search for "IQ by race graph" and you will see numerous similar graphs. They usuall assume SD of 15 points.

    Although the whole East Asians have a narrower variance meme is often asserted on the web (and frequently cited by some as the reason for the allegedly lower creativity of East Asians), the only serious look at the comparative variance/SD I have seen is by Steve Hsu (who is on the blog roll): http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/06/asian-white-iq-variance-from-pisa.html

    Hsu found that the East Asian variance is at the similar level, or slightly greater than, that of Europeans.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  167. @artichoke
    Indeed, but I've never heard anyone say it looks like that. Whites there have the lowest standard deviation of IQ's, which I had not heard of before. Where does that come from?

    Do a search for “IQ by race graph” and you will see numerous similar graphs. They usuall assume SD of 15 points.

    Although the whole East Asians have a narrower variance meme is often asserted on the web (and frequently cited by some as the reason for the allegedly lower creativity of East Asians), the only serious look at the comparative variance/SD I have seen is by Steve Hsu (who is on the blog roll): http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/06/asian-white-iq-variance-from-pisa.html

    Hsu found that the East Asian variance is at the similar level, or slightly greater than, that of Europeans.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS
PastClassics
The major media overlooked Communist spies and Madoff’s fraud. What are they missing today?
The “war hero” candidate buried information about POWs left behind in Vietnam.
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
The evidence is clear — but often ignored