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Salma Hayek and a Young Black Starlet Debate Who Deserves More Intersectional Pokemon Points
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Screenshot 2017-01-29 14.28.33From the Los Angeles Times, a blow-by-blow account of a feminist celebrity struggle session at the Sundance film festival:

Celebration of women filmmakers triggers heated debate among Salma Hayek, Jessica Williams and Shirley MacLaine

Amy Kaufman

… Here at the home of ChefDance CEO and founder Mimi Kim, Woodard, Shirley MacLaine, Elle Fanning and Jill Soloway were just part of a formidable group gathered during the Sundance Festival for a lunch to celebrate women in film. …

Shirley MacLaine, at 82, wearing purple and pink in honor of Saturday’s Women’s Marches, chimed in, saying that Donald Trump presented a challenge to “each of our inner democracy” and urged everyone at the table to explore their “core identity.”

Then Jessica Williams, the former “Daily Show” correspondent who was at Sundance as the star of Jim Strouse’s “The Incredible Jessica James,” spoke up.

“I have a question for you,” Williams, 27, said to MacLaine. “My question is: What if you are a person of color, or a transgendered person who — just from how you look — you already are in a conflict?”

“Right, but change your point of view,” MacLaine offered. “Change your point of view of being victimized. I’m saying: Find the democracy inside.”

What does “democracy inside” mean? That you should give each of the voices in your head an equal vote? Each of your past lives gets a say?

“I’m sorry,” [Salma] Hayek said, jumping in. “Can I ask you a question?”

“Yes, ma’am,” Williams answered.

Uh-oh … Microaggression!

I realize Salma is now 50, but it’s probably not a good idea for a 27-year-old actress to call her “ma’am.” Just sayin’ …

“Who are you when you’re not black and you’re not a woman? Who are you and what have you got to give?”

Williams took a deep breath. “A lot. But some days, I’m just black, and I’m just a woman,” she said. “Like, it’s not my choice. I know who I am. I know I’m Jessica, and I’m the hottest bitch on the planet I know.”

It’s generally not advisable to say that to Salma Hayek. The question of who, exactly, is the hottest bitch on the planet has never been one that Salma can ponder, which she does every time she looks in a mirror, with wholly disinterested objectivity.

“No, no, no,” Hayek said. “Take the time to investigate. That’s the trap! …There is so much more.”

“Right,” agreed MacClaine. “The more is inside.”

On the inside, for example, Shirley MacClaine is also, via her famous past lives, an androgyne of the pre-Atlantis Lemurian era, the harem girl of a Turkish pasha, a dancing girl of Old Isfahan, and “I remembered being a Muslim gypsy girl who had migrated from Morocco and was living with the Coptic Christians in the hills of Spain.”

Top that for Intersectional Pokemon Points, Jessica Williams!

Williams, whose speech at the women’s march at Sundance was praised as one of the most powerful and effective last week, looked down and said she was struggling to articulate herself. Peirce [the butch lesbian director of Boys Don't Cry] tried to help her, saying that when she goes out in public looking masculine, she causes discomfort in a way Williams might as a black woman.

Hey, thanks!

​​But that wasn’t quite right.

There’s nothing straight black starlets like Jessica Williams appreciate more than being told that they are about as alluring as white middle-aged butch lesbians.

So a​f​ter a few moments of reflection, Williams returned to Hayek.

“I think what you’re saying is valid, but I also think that what you’re saying doesn’t apply to all women. I think that’s impossible.”

“What part of it is impossible?” Hayek responded. “You’re giving attention to how the other one feels.”

“Because I have to,” Williams said.

”If you have to do that, then do that,” Hayek said. “Then that’s your journey. But I want to inspire other people to know it’s a choice.”

This was when “Mudbound” filmmaker ​Dee Rees — who had moments earlier introduced herself as a black, queer director — jumped in. At this lunch, she said, she didn’t feel like she was posing a threat to anyone. But in line at the bank? Things were different. “I don’t see myself a victim,” she said. “[Jessica] doesn’t see herself as a victim. But it’s how you’re read.”

“I also feel like the word ‘victim’ — I feel like it has bothered me,” Williams replied. “When I talk about feminism, sometimes I feel like being a black woman is cast aside. I always feel like I’m warring with my womanhood and wanting the world to be better, and with my blackness — which is the opposite of whiteness.”

In case you were wondering.

Cora, who had been in the kitchen cooking lamb stew and halibut, wandered over to share that she grew up gay in Mississippi, where she was sexually abused from age 6.

Thanks for sharing.

No matter an individual’s experience, she said, she just wished all women would have one another’s backs.

And maybe more than just backs, but you have to start somewhere.

It was a somewhat of an abrupt turn, and “Transparent” creator [Jill] Soloway returned to Williams to ask her to continue speaking.

“With intersectional feminism, it’s our responsibility as white women to recognize that when there are people of color or people who are queer — we need to prioritize your voices and let you speak the loudest and learn from your experience, because we haven’t been listening. So please, Jessica, finish your thoughts.”

You know, Jill, maybe Jessica Williams was starting to realize that while nice, she isn’t quite in Salma Hayek’s league and would rather you change the subject to something like having Elle Fanning give her opinion on Shirley MacClaine’s most awesome past life.

Williams, visibly uncomfortable, said she also wanted to encourage all of the women in the room to pay special attention to women of color and LGBT women.

In other words, I’m definitely better looking than most LGBT women, but can we get off the subject of me vs. Salma Hayek, please?

“I think we need to not speak over black women,” she said, “not assign them labels.”

It’s nothing personal, Jessica, it’s just racial.

“What does this mean, ‘speak over?’” Hayek asked.

Oh boy, Jessica, you shouldn’t have provoked the alpha uber-female.

“To project your ideas on me,” Williams said. “I think there is a fear that if we present an idea that, ‘Hey, maybe [black women] have it a little bit harder in this country’ — because we do; black women and trans women do — if we’re having it a little bit harder, it doesn’t invalidate your experience. I really am begging you to not take it personally.” …

Lots of luck with that … The more actresses you gather together the more rapidly the chance of things being taken personally approaches infinity.

“So when you say women of color,” Hayek began. Then she noticed that Williams was not making eye contact with her. “Jessica, do you mind if I look at your eyes?”

Salma discovered at about age 13 that the only way interpersonal exchanges didn’t go in her favor is if the other person didn’t look at her. For example, it’s harder for Salma to get her way with blind people than with deaf people.

Williams barely looked up.

This is like Donald Trump meets Stuart Smalley.

Still, the back-and-forth continued, with Hayek questioning whether or not she was considered a woman of color in Williams’ estimation.

The Flight From White.

Nearly everyone in the room responded that Hayek was.

Who would dare insult Salma Hayek by saying she is white?

Granted, Salma is a Conquistador-American on her mother’s side and a Crusader-American on her father’s side. In 2017, that ancestry makes her a Woman of Color.

Next week, I’d like to see Salma Hayek, Cameron Diaz, Sofia Vergara, and Alicia Machado debate who is more Woman of Colorish.

“Wouldn’t it solve it if women just all had each other’s backs in general?” Cora [the lesbian chef] asked suddenly.

The solution, obviously, is for hot women to stop competing for the attention of the enemy, men, and have each other’s backs, like with my famously relaxing back massages. I’m an expert chef so you know, Salma and/or Jessica, I have really good hands. And if that doesn’t fully relieve the stress …

“Sure,” Peirce said. “The thing is this, yes, all women can work together, but we have to acknowledge that black women have a different experience. She’s here struggling and we keep shutting her down.”

“I don’t think anybody here shut her down,” Cora said, fighting back.

“Can I interrupt, because I feel misunderstood,” Hayek agreed.

I’m not sure I’d call that agreeing, but it’s best not to disagree with Salma if you know what’s good for you.

“It’s not shutting you up. I feel misunderstood on one point: We should be also curious about our brain.

Tell Salma you are curious about her brain.

“By being the best that you can be. That’s what I was trying to say to you. Let’s not just spend all the time in the anger, but in the investigation.”

“Baby, I’m Mexican and Arab,” she went on, addressing Williams.

After all, who has ever heard of a Mexican Arab getting ahead in this world?

“I’m from another generation, baby, when this was not even a possibility. My generation, they said, ‘Go back to Mexico. You’ll never be anything other than a maid in this country.’ By the head​s ​of studios! There was no movement. Latino women were not even anywhere near where you guys are. I was the first one. I’m 50 years old.

Parts of me are less than 50 years old, but, overall, I’m 50.

“So I understand.”

“You don’t understand,” Williams said, shaking her head quietly.

To be fair, almost everybody sounds like an incoherent idiot when reporters publish verbatim conversations. It would have to be a conversation between, say, Steven Pinker and Charles Murray to look impressive on paper when unpolished by the reporter.

For example, when I was captain of the Rice U. College Bowl quiz team, the Houston Chronicle published a front page article ostensibly on the subject of what geniuses we were. But the reporter published quotes from me verbatim, which made me sound like a dope. I was a little mad at the time, but it mostly struck me as adding an extra layer of entertainment — Quiz Kid Talks Like Bozo –to the article, and thus was funny while being fair enough: I really did say exactly what the newspaper said I said.

From Wikipedia:

Hayek was born Salma Hayek Jiménez in Coatzacoalcos, Veracruz, Mexico. Her younger brother, Sami (born 1972), is a furniture designer. Her mother, Diana Jiménez Medina, is an opera singer and talent scout. Her father, Sami Hayek, is an oil company executive and owner of an industrial-equipment firm, who once ran for mayor of Coatzacoalcos. Her father is of Lebanese descent, with his family being from the city Baabdat, Lebanon, a city Salma and her father visited in 2015 to promote her movie Kahlil Gibran’s The Prophet. Her mother is Mexican, with her grandmother/maternal great-grandparents being from Spain. Raised in a wealthy, devout Roman Catholic family, she was sent to the Academy of the Sacred Heart in Grand Coteau, Louisiana, USA, at the age of twelve. …

On March 9, 2007, Hayek confirmed her engagement to French billionaire and Kering CEO, François-Henri Pinault, as well as her pregnancy. She gave birth to daughter, Valentina Paloma Pinault, in September 2007 at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles, California. They were married on Valentine’s Day 2009 in Paris.

 
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  1. guest says:

    The comment “I’m the hottest bitch on the planet” captures the real question: who’s prettier? Who’s prettier wins.

    By the way, I’m up on SJW theory (applied pokemon points) and accustomed to the way they write, in academese, op-eds, and internet comment sections alike. But is this how they talk in person, or are they just stupid actresses? Because I could barely follow.

    Maybe I have intersectionality fatigue and am sick of having to interpret, like by line, based on where each speaker sits in the hierarchy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Langley
    "By the way, I’m up on SJW theory (applied pokemon points) and accustomed to the way they write, in academese, op-eds, and internet comment sections alike. But is this how they talk in person, or are they just stupid actresses? Because I could barely follow."

    Did any of this actually happen?

    Is it a parody?

    Is it a poor reporters attempt to paint zis idealized recollection of high status wymon conversing?

    Who can know anymore?

    "Maybe I have intersectionality fatigue and am sick of having to interpret, like by line, based on where each speaker sits in the hierarchy."

    The Tower of Babel is way past its Best Used By date.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZuFq4CfRR8

    , @sayless
    "...is this how they talk in person, or are they just stupid actresses?"

    It's both/and, don't you think?

    Off to listen to some Earl Scruggs and have another.
    , @Frau Katze
    Arguments over victim points: this could get boring really fast. You've read one, you've read them all.
    , @neoconned
    Steve, you need to do stand up, bad.
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  2. Mr. Blank says:

    Salma Hayek can have ALL my Pokemon Points anytime she wants.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    Please enumerate your victim points and why you deserve them! ;-)
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  3. Kirt says:

    This is so far beyond parody, it’s not even in the same galaxy. These pseudo wanna be whatevers aren’t even mediocre cannon fodder for a revolution.

    Read More
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  4. Polynikes says:

    Are the Lebanese Arabs?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Patrick Harris
    As Arab as anyone else in the Arabic-speaking world (with the possible exception of people on the actual Arabian peninsula). However, Lebanese nationalists like to deny that and say they're really Phoenecians.
    , @TelfoedJohn
    Lebanese Christians are no less European than Greeks, by Lebanese Muslims have mixed with Arabs further south.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  5. Maj says:

    I’ll intersect her with my Pokey-mon!

    Read More
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  6. When considering Hayek’s carefully argued position on identity and privilege, two points really stand out.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Even from a distance it’s apparent she has a certain gravitas.
    , @International Jew
    Ron, could you give us more than one measly LOL to use per post?
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  7. Hhsiii says:

    [some lesbian chef]

    Classic.

    Hmm, Hayek was the first? Maria Conchita Alonso is 9 years older and I bet thinks Hayek’s breasts robbed her of a few parts.

    And Katy Jurado and Carmen miranda were a million years ago:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Don't forget classic film era Mexican superstar Dolores Del Rio.

    From Wikipedia:

    She was the first major female Latin cross-over star in Hollywood,[2][3][4][5] with an outstanding career in American films in the 1920s and 1930s. She was also considered one of the more important female figures of the Golden Age of Mexican cinema in the 1940s and 1950s.[6] Del Río is remembered as one of the most beautiful faces of the cinema in her time.[7] Her long and varied career spanned silent film, sound film, television, stage and radio.

    , @Travis
    does Rita Hayworth (born Margarita Carmen Cansino) get any pokemon points for having 4 spanish grandparents ?

    what about Raquel Welsh ? born Jo Raquel Tejada , her father was Bolivian.
    , @Mr Mack Bolan
    Remember Charo ,the coochie coochie girl. LOL.
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  8. Mr. Anon says:

    Internecinality

    Read More
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  9. But it was clear to all that despite the moments of palpable discomfort, an important discussion had just occurred.

    And yet I, reading that discussion, have exactly zero idea what was actually being said. It reads like the transcript of an est session conducted in a school for the Developmentally Challenged.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    Menopause can be traumatic.
    , @Langley
    "And yet I, reading that discussion, have exactly zero idea what was actually being said. It reads like the transcript of an est session conducted in a school for the Developmentally Challenged."

    A bunch of goddesses were fighting over a golden apple with ti kallisti inscribed on it.

    We all know how that turned out.
    , @donut
    This I think was the essence of the conversation :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqmIMvWnIV8
    , @fitzGetty
    The apes atop Gibraltar gibber more coherently.
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  10. i was there. in park city. at that exchange.

    issue isnt “points”, but difference…difference from being strait, white, and male, and all behaviors associated with that.

    There is no potential compromise with these types of people. Why? because compromise stems from similarity, and similarity is a form of weakness in their system. only dictation and zero sum games are possible. hence, the current environment.

    Read More
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  11. Give me your rich, your beautiful, your perfect-bosomed ladies in purple dresses.

    Then send in the wretched refuse to clean their houses and worship them.

    Meow…

    Read More
    • Agree: Lot
    • LOL: Forbes
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  12. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Looks like its time for a reboot of George Cukor’s “The Women”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    They remade "The Women" about a decade ago, but it was boring because the feminist director wasn't as funny as gay George Cukor.
    , @BigBkueArseOfJupiter
    The real question is: why exactly do gay men get such a massive rush out of seeing women dressed outlandishly, full of attitude and being bitchy to each other? It’s near universal and holds across decades of time.
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  13. Mr. Blank says:

    Hey Salma, come on over to my place and let’s get “intersectional” while listening to some Barry White, who’s both White and black.

    Read More
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  14. @anonymous
    Looks like its time for a reboot of George Cukor's "The Women"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBQyS9pMTng

    They remade “The Women” about a decade ago, but it was boring because the feminist director wasn’t as funny as gay George Cukor.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Neoconned
    THat KKKKrazy glue is melting.

    I'm trying to hurry up and fill up my 401k. Everything else is going to gold and guns.....

    I figure they'll start going nuts in 10-15 yrs as deflation turns into inflation and corporations can no longer hide inflation by making boxes smaller or reducing serving sizes and tricks like that. Then the welfare goes away due to the recent 3rd world immigrants and their kids taking bigger slices of the pie.

    They'll blame us until they cant & then they'll turn on each other and be at each other's throats...

    Then the whole entire burning shithouse will collapse & the country will balkanize like the Russians think or the military will say screw it and set a junta and take political power.

    I suspect California to be the first state to crack up.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  15. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Intersectional feminists always wind up complaining about a lack of listening, and I think they have a point. These crazies are so afraid of stepping on each other’s toes that they end up talking past each other.

    Read More
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  16. BB753 says:
    @candid_observer

    But it was clear to all that despite the moments of palpable discomfort, an important discussion had just occurred.
     
    And yet I, reading that discussion, have exactly zero idea what was actually being said. It reads like the transcript of an est session conducted in a school for the Developmentally Challenged.

    Menopause can be traumatic.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  17. The end result of all of this is going to be more people such as me, who simply avoid movies and TV.

    The Internet offers more than enough stuff from before the world went insane that you can listen, watch, and read and still not have enough time for it all. There’s old TV on YouTube, vintage radio at Archive.org, tons of old movies at various sites, scads of e-books being traded, and more old music og every genre than you could ever listen to.

    Last time I was in a theater was 2012. Before that 2003. Both times were for Grateful Dead movies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CK
    Any movie can be had "On Demand", the only reasons to go to a movie theatre are expensive popcorn and that new movie smell. Being the first to watch costs you $15 renting later costs you $5. That's $10 to buy gold or Maryjane as your taste demands.
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  18. @Polynikes
    Are the Lebanese Arabs?

    As Arab as anyone else in the Arabic-speaking world (with the possible exception of people on the actual Arabian peninsula). However, Lebanese nationalists like to deny that and say they’re really Phoenecians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    How's that any different from Iranians claiming to be of Persian descent?
    , @snorlax
    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

    Per these numbers Lebanese genetic composition is

    44% Arabia
    14% Jewish Diaspora
    11% Northern Africa
    10% Asia Minor
    5% Southern Europe
    2% Eastern Africa

    Interestingly, they're less Arab than the Iranians

    56% Arabia
    24% Southern Asia
    6% Asia Minor
    4% Central Asia
    4% Eastern Africa
    2% Northern Africa
    2% Southern Europe
    , @Amasius
    If I had to choose I'd rather be a Phoenician than an Arab. Great travelers and explorers, played an important role in the invention of the alphabet, pretty cool mythology. My favorite Semites.
    , @Karl
    > like to deny that and say they’re really Phoenecians

    The actual Phoenicians spoke Canaanite proto-Hebrew. Arabic didn't arrive till the AD 690's.

    Judging by the Talmud's complaints, the border between Tribe of Dan and Phoenicia was a little ==too== open for the comfort of the YHWH-cult priests in Jerusalem, who wanted ALL sacrifices & taxes to go to (surprise!) Jerusalem.

    If a Dan-ite boy marries a shiksa from Tyre because of her big bosoms, he's probably gonna split his offerings between Jerusalem, and _her_ temple up there. Horrible. Way too intersectional.
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  19. Langley says:
    @guest
    The comment "I'm the hottest bitch on the planet" captures the real question: who's prettier? Who's prettier wins.

    By the way, I'm up on SJW theory (applied pokemon points) and accustomed to the way they write, in academese, op-eds, and internet comment sections alike. But is this how they talk in person, or are they just stupid actresses? Because I could barely follow.

    Maybe I have intersectionality fatigue and am sick of having to interpret, like by line, based on where each speaker sits in the hierarchy.

    “By the way, I’m up on SJW theory (applied pokemon points) and accustomed to the way they write, in academese, op-eds, and internet comment sections alike. But is this how they talk in person, or are they just stupid actresses? Because I could barely follow.”

    Did any of this actually happen?

    Is it a parody?

    Is it a poor reporters attempt to paint zis idealized recollection of high status wymon conversing?

    Who can know anymore?

    “Maybe I have intersectionality fatigue and am sick of having to interpret, like by line, based on where each speaker sits in the hierarchy.”

    The Tower of Babel is way past its Best Used By date.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    That Taiwanese animated news company should animate this debate.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  20. Yak-15 says:

    Female hens clucking for hierarchy along the most socially important constructs of liberalism. If Hillary had won, this would be reality. Glad we have Trump.

    Read More
    • Replies: @International Jew

    If Hillary had won, this would be reality. Glad we have Trump.
     
    It does feel strange though to see these reminders of the old crazy nonsense at the same time that sanity is breaking out in Washington.
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  21. Hodag says:

    “Can I interrupt, because I feel misunderstood,” Hayek agreed.

    ” We all agree that humans, at base, are animals and subject to the same evolutionary pressures as any other animal. And in the last ten thousand years humans have been highly selected for certain traits, both physical and mental.”

    “Look at the non gracile skulls so common in the Irish. Look at the altitude adjustment of the genome of Tibetans. Look at the k selection in sub Saharan Africans”.

    “Can’t we finally accept each other?”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hubbub

    And in the last ten thousand years humans have been highly selected for certain traits, both physical and mental.
     
    Just a slight correction here, if you will...

    And in the last ten thousand years humans have been highly selected for certain traits, both physical and [menstrual].
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  22. @Langley
    "By the way, I’m up on SJW theory (applied pokemon points) and accustomed to the way they write, in academese, op-eds, and internet comment sections alike. But is this how they talk in person, or are they just stupid actresses? Because I could barely follow."

    Did any of this actually happen?

    Is it a parody?

    Is it a poor reporters attempt to paint zis idealized recollection of high status wymon conversing?

    Who can know anymore?

    "Maybe I have intersectionality fatigue and am sick of having to interpret, like by line, based on where each speaker sits in the hierarchy."

    The Tower of Babel is way past its Best Used By date.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZuFq4CfRR8

    That Taiwanese animated news company should animate this debate.

    Read More
    • LOL: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @SFG
    It's funny. They're really pro-Trump because they think he'll stand up to China.

    I should also add Americans are now all represented by fat people in their cartoons, because they're cartoonists.
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  23. Langley says:
    @candid_observer

    But it was clear to all that despite the moments of palpable discomfort, an important discussion had just occurred.
     
    And yet I, reading that discussion, have exactly zero idea what was actually being said. It reads like the transcript of an est session conducted in a school for the Developmentally Challenged.

    “And yet I, reading that discussion, have exactly zero idea what was actually being said. It reads like the transcript of an est session conducted in a school for the Developmentally Challenged.”

    A bunch of goddesses were fighting over a golden apple with ti kallisti inscribed on it.

    We all know how that turned out.

    Read More
    • LOL: Romanian
    • Replies: @Olorin
    Yeah, a bunch of Robert Anton Wilson novels, and a Silicon Valley protoKek cult...a mere couple millennia later.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  24. @Patrick Harris
    As Arab as anyone else in the Arabic-speaking world (with the possible exception of people on the actual Arabian peninsula). However, Lebanese nationalists like to deny that and say they're really Phoenecians.

    How’s that any different from Iranians claiming to be of Persian descent?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Patrick Harris
    Because Phoenician culture, unlike Persian culture, has been dead for well over a millennia. Doubtless there is some ancestral component, but the Lebanese aren't notably less Arab than their neighbors (with the possible exception of Christian groups who intermarried with Frankish crusaders).
    , @Frau Katze
    Iran and Persia mean the same thing. The natives always called their country Iran.

    But the ancient Greeks started calling it Persia based on the name of province closest to them.

    But note: there are many non-Iranian in Iran: Azeris, Armenians, Kurds and Arabs (the main ones).
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  25. 10 lewrockwell thank you for being in Park City so others did not have to be there. You do the Sailerish work so we do not have to do it.

    The irrational intersection positions cause negative sums because all people lose. The arguments are prisoner dilemma problems that are set up with errors. If you permit me, there is no tit-for-tat solution that is satisfactory to participants.

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  26. @Hhsiii
    [some lesbian chef]


    Classic.

    Hmm, Hayek was the first? Maria Conchita Alonso is 9 years older and I bet thinks Hayek's breasts robbed her of a few parts.

    And Katy Jurado and Carmen miranda were a million years ago:

    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-iQqs4UL92ME/TWwObx69M7I/AAAAAAAAAOE/BLpVOOPFfSs/s1600/Grace+Kelly%252C+Katy+Jurado+dans+Le+Train+sifflera+trois+fois.jpeg

    Don’t forget classic film era Mexican superstar Dolores Del Rio.

    From Wikipedia:

    She was the first major female Latin cross-over star in Hollywood,[2][3][4][5] with an outstanding career in American films in the 1920s and 1930s. She was also considered one of the more important female figures of the Golden Age of Mexican cinema in the 1940s and 1950s.[6] Del Río is remembered as one of the most beautiful faces of the cinema in her time.[7] Her long and varied career spanned silent film, sound film, television, stage and radio.

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    • Replies: @Hhsiii
    Oh yeah. I knew there was a Mexican silent era star and couldn't recall the name. Valentino played Latinos as well IIRC.

    I'm sure Steve will eventually unearth Salma's Carlos Slim/Christian Phalangist warlord connections.
    , @Bleuteaux
    Just using her as an example, it's amazing how every minority actor or politician today, in 2017, is seen as doing some kind of miraculous social breakthrough as if no one had ever done it before.

    I went on an old movies kick a few years ago, bought a bunch of DVDs with modern commentary to go with them. No matter what decade the movie was filmed, the presence of a minority was usually lauded as some kind of risky breakthrough moment. Didn't matter if it was 1925 or 1975.
    , @IBC
    Also, Lupe Vélez; perhaps the originator of the fiery Latin(a) screen stereotype:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lupe_V%C3%A9lez

    In the early '40s, she starred in a series of comedy films that sound like they had a lot in common with "I Love Lucy:"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Spitfire_%28film_series%29

    And note the trendy ethno-racial take in the last section of the second link.

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  27. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I think Steve has remarked before that blacks really like being black. And it seems true. Blacks really seem to enjoy being black. They’re obsessed with being black. This whole victim stuff lets blacks enjoy being black and nurse their obsession while holding the moral high ground and not come across as completely self-absorbed and gloating (even though that’s manifestly obvious to any non deluded individual) which normally detracts from one holding the moral high ground.

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    • Agree: Travis
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  28. Is there a full video of this? It’s dying for a subtitled version with the real meaning behind the speaking. Though half the sentences might be, “I am more oppressed than you.”

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  29. Maj says:

    Pardon my heteronormativity, but is there a hotter 50 yr old on the planet than Ms. Hayek? No wonder poor Jessica Williams got so rustled.

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    • Replies: @Barnard
    Cindy Crawford still looks good for 50.
    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    She is one of the hottest women on the planet. What an unbelievable existence.

    Edward Norton, wherever we may meet, every round is on me. Salud brother.
    , @Mr. Anon
    "Pardon my heteronormativity, but is there a hotter 50 yr old on the planet than Ms. Hayek?"

    She's something else. I remember first seeing her as the snake-dancer / vampire in From Dusk Till Dawn

    Susan Sarandon is 70, and she still looks good.

    Good genes and good living, I suppose.

    , @keuril
    Salma Hayek looks awesome and Jessica Williams' comment in her presence is a hilariously self-unaware example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Hayek is extremely well preserved for a white woman, but not quite as remarkable in comparison to the much larger field of similarly well preserved Asian women.
    , @Karl
    29. Maj > Pardon my heteronormativity, but is there a hotter 50 yr old on the planet than Ms.
    Hayek?


    yo, Maj..... if you had her plastic-surgery budget, you'd ALSO still have some of your looks left.
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  30. Salma Hayek is married to Francois Henri Pinault – family fortune estimated at $13 billion.

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  31. @Richard of Melbourne
    When considering Hayek's carefully argued position on identity and privilege, two points really stand out.

    Even from a distance it’s apparent she has a certain gravitas.

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    • Replies: @Forbes
    Even from a distance it's apparent she has gravity-defying boobs...
    , @Hubbub
    Even from a distance it’s apparent she has a certain gravitas.

    She has two of them gravitases, in fact.
    , @TontoBubbaGoldstein
    Even from a distance it’s apparent she has a certain gravitas.

    Gravitatas.
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  32. JohnnyD says:

    If Hillary won the election, there would probably be a “department of mircoaggressions” or a “department of intersectionality” taking this nonsense seriously.

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  33. Perhaps Top Trumps is now a better card game analogy for intersectionality?

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  34. They deserve each other so much.

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  35. @Polynikes
    Are the Lebanese Arabs?

    Lebanese Christians are no less European than Greeks, by Lebanese Muslims have mixed with Arabs further south.

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    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    I'm predicting some fallout from the Syrian conflict (which Bashar's Alawite-dominated regime appears to be winning) will be Syrians, Lebanese and Jordanians distancing themselves from "Arab."

    You can read about the history of Ba'athism and compare it to the modern tendency of Iberian Mexicans to appropriate aboriginal American identity, like iSteve's favorite calendar girl for Latino identity politics, Xochitl Hinojosa (on the left):

    http://www.mywedding.com/kevinlovesscarlett/images/28664_10100221108513640_7943127_60940858_5144828_n.jpg

    Here's a more recent pic:

    http://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2016_30/1639291/160726_amandarenteria_8a4442e4b92ceb0be3e52ad241c86dc8.nbcnews-ux-2880-1000.jpg

    Any way, Ba'athism comes across as being an earnest effort by smart, Orthodox Christian Marxists to forge a pan-Arabic identity. However, I think the Levantine Arab-speakers will come out of this as distinctly anti-Gulf Arab.
    , @Frau Katze
    Got any DNA evidence to back that up?

    The Sunni Muslims consider themselves as just as high class as the Christians (as opposed to the lowlife Shiites who just came from the farm and have brought in Iranian Hezbollah. Talk about ethnic traitors).
    , @Jefferson
    "Lebanese Christians are no less European than Greeks,"

    Lebanese Christians are not even as genetically European as Jews, let alone as genetically European as Greeks.
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  36. Fletch says:

    That’s right. Nobody can understand cause you’re so special. You’re the only one ever & to ever have your strugggles. I like watching these assays eat each other.

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  37. Mr. Blank says:

    After I got done drooling over that picture of Salma Hayek and actually read the article, this line made me chuckle:

    “With intersectional feminism, it’s our responsibility as white women to recognize that when there are people of color or people who are queer — we need to prioritize your voices and let you speak the loudest and learn from your experience, because we haven’t been listening.”

    Oh, you’d better believe we’ve been listening. We’ve been listening because you won’t shut up.

    Have these folks ever considered that maybe their habit of “prioritizing” the voices of folks like this is the reason Trump caught them so off guard?

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  38. Hhsiii says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Don't forget classic film era Mexican superstar Dolores Del Rio.

    From Wikipedia:

    She was the first major female Latin cross-over star in Hollywood,[2][3][4][5] with an outstanding career in American films in the 1920s and 1930s. She was also considered one of the more important female figures of the Golden Age of Mexican cinema in the 1940s and 1950s.[6] Del Río is remembered as one of the most beautiful faces of the cinema in her time.[7] Her long and varied career spanned silent film, sound film, television, stage and radio.

    Oh yeah. I knew there was a Mexican silent era star and couldn’t recall the name. Valentino played Latinos as well IIRC.

    I’m sure Steve will eventually unearth Salma’s Carlos Slim/Christian Phalangist warlord connections.

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  39. syonredux says:

    Williams barely looked up. Still, the back-and-forth continued, with Hayek questioning whether or not she was considered a woman of color in Williams’ estimation. Nearly everyone in the room responded that Hayek was.

    Look, Salma, you’ve gotta understood that not all POC are created equal…….Black woman trumps (heh) Lebanese-Hispanic….

    “Baby, I’m Mexican and Arab,” she went on, addressing Williams.

    On the other hand, you’ve gotta appreciate how the old girl goes for the intersectional throat. Ten years ago, she would have just talked about being Mexican/Hispanic, but now she understands that that is not good enough…..Although, gotta say, current thinking (you know, in the Trumpenreich) prioritizes “Arabness”….So, maybe she should re-think her self- definition, make it “Arab and Mexican,” not “Mexican and Arab.” Don’t want to bury the lede….

    “I’m from another generation, baby, when this was not even a possibility. My generation, they said, ‘Go back to Mexico. You’ll never be anything other than a maid in this country.’ By the head​s ​of studios! There was no movement. Latino women were not even anywhere near where you guys are. I was the first one. I’m 50 years old. So I understand.”

    “You don’t understand,” Williams said, shaking her head quietly.

    Salma, we all understand your pain. You’ve spoken so eloquently about your difficult childhood:

    “I thought I was a princess.I lived in a castle.and my father was a king.I wore tiaras.I was born divas-ish.When other kids were getting excited about toys, I would get excited about clothes.”

    (Salma Hayek: Actress, Director, and Producer
    By Kerrily Sapet)

    And then there’s your struggle with body-image:

    “I was getting tested a lot because everybody was older and I was the skinny tomboy… I went to a church that had a saint that was supposed to do a lot of miracles. I put my hands in holy waited and went: ‘Please Jesus give me some boobs.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/09/salma-hayek-boobs_n_1140150.html

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    • LOL: snorlax
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Even if she's from a wealthy and privileged background, she probably was teased if she went to school in the US back then. When I went to school, I had classes that were all white with a few white Hispanic types and Lebanese Catholics who'd be called names and taunted.
    , @Steve Sailer
    Thank you, Jesus.
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  40. snorlax says:
    @Patrick Harris
    As Arab as anyone else in the Arabic-speaking world (with the possible exception of people on the actual Arabian peninsula). However, Lebanese nationalists like to deny that and say they're really Phoenecians.

    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

    Per these numbers Lebanese genetic composition is

    44% Arabia
    14% Jewish Diaspora
    11% Northern Africa
    10% Asia Minor
    5% Southern Europe
    2% Eastern Africa

    Interestingly, they’re less Arab than the Iranians

    56% Arabia
    24% Southern Asia
    6% Asia Minor
    4% Central Asia
    4% Eastern Africa
    2% Northern Africa
    2% Southern Europe

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    • Replies: @Romanian
    Would the huge demographic shift during the beginning of the century and then during the Civil War era affect the results? The first saw large numbers of Muslims immigrating to previously mostly Christian Lebanon. The second saw the Lebanese Christians leaving in droves. From 84% Christian during the first quarter of the 20th century, to a quarter Christian in 1985, and approximately 40% today.
    , @Anonymous
    So apart from the 7% Southern Europe and Eastern Africa component, they're 93% Middle Eastern/North African, which is basically what people mean when they say "Arab."
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Phoenicians were originally from Southern Europe but settled around the Mediterranean. So Lebanese could be up to ~26% Phoenician, I guess?
    , @Frau Katze
    But that's the country as a whole.

    You need DNA stats for each of Christians, Sunnis and Shiites.

    And don't forget all the small groups like the Druze.
    , @Jefferson
    "Per these numbers Lebanese genetic composition is

    44% Arabia
    14% Jewish Diaspora
    11% Northern Africa
    10% Asia Minor
    5% Southern Europe
    2% Eastern Africa"

    So the Lebanese are a whopping 95 percent Non European and only 5 percent European. But according to many people here on The Unz the Lebanese are genetically 100 percent pure unmixed Europeans who do not have a single drop of MENA Arab Semite blood pumping through their hearts. The Lebanese are the epitome of European racial pureness according to many people here The Unz. Lebanon should be part of The European Union according to many people here on The Unz.

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  41. Barnard says:
    @Maj
    Pardon my heteronormativity, but is there a hotter 50 yr old on the planet than Ms. Hayek? No wonder poor Jessica Williams got so rustled.

    Cindy Crawford still looks good for 50.

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    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    Kathy Ireland, 53
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  42. All this vapid, catty female gabbling, preoccupied with who’s more oppressed (read: popular and important) and the ceaseless competition for more attention than the next gal whilst passive-aggressively suppressing any direct, substantial, or honest observations reminded me of Rick & Summer’s visit to Gazorpazorp:

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  43. syonredux says:

    “I’m from another generation, baby, when this was not even a possibility. My generation, they said, ‘Go back to Mexico. You’ll never be anything other than a maid in this country.’ By the head​s ​of studios!

    Of course, Salma, Mexico is not exactly well-known for color blind casting:

    Mestizo actors conspicuously absent from commercial ads in Mexico

    Light-skinned actors get the vast majority of roles in television commercials in Mexico, laying bare the racism that persists in this majority mestizo nation.

    “Commercials for consumer products require an aspirational profile, and that is white with light eyes, medium height and between 25 and 45 years old. The international Latino type,” actor Rodrigo Franco, president of the National Interpreters Association, told EFE.

    The 51-year-old Franco, who is 1.56 meters (5-foot-1) in height and has “typical Mexican” features, said he had faced repeated discrimination in the advertising and acting worlds.

    He said that unfair treatment had included being asked by a director to furnish an acting degree at an audition for a part as a construction worker and being kicked off a set by a security guard who said he could not be part of the cast because of his appearance.

    Options for the “native Mexican” are restricted to commercials on government programs, which make up just 5 percent of television ads, Franco said.

    <blockquote>In August 2013, a casting call sparked outrage. Mexico’s flagship air carrier, Aeromexico, said it was looking for actors and actresses for one of its commercials but specified that it wanted “nobody dark-skinned.”

    http://www.efe.com/efe/english/life/mestizo-actors-conspicuously-absent-from-commercial-ads-in-mexico/50000263-3133515

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    • Replies: @Njguy73

    Of course, Salma, Mexico is not exactly well-known for color blind casting:
     
    "If you aren`t familiar with the depths of Mexico`s blonde obsession, try watching Spanish-language TV shows. Almost all the women on Mexican TV look like Finns." - Steve Sailer, May 2000

    http://www.vdare.com/articles/americas-imported-caste-system
    , @Steve Sailer
    Did Salma leave Mexico because she was a brunette?

    I can't remember if I read that.

    But Hollywood is probably more brunette-friendly than Mexico City's TV and film industry.
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  44. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Maclaine should be more understanding since she was a black, yellow, brown, Jewish, homo, tranny, and etc in her earlier lives.

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  45. Michelle says:

    LGBT, one of my exes said when the usage first came out that it sounded like a hell of a sandwich! If these chicks care so much about other chicks why have they subverted every special protection that women have ever enjoyed? They want to put us on the front lines in battle! Go figure! They are aiming to get women drafted.

    It seems to me, that feminists are working on behalf of men. The cure for male irresponsibility was more irresponsibility. Abortion, great for men. Birth control, great for men. Women working (and still dong the lions’ share of taking care of the kids and household) great for men. Getting the milk without buying the cow, great for men. Shoving women out of the way to the lifeboats on the next cruise ship disaster, great for men! Every womyn for its/theirself, thanks feminists! Hell, the (cows) demanded the right to get lung cancer. You’ve come a long way baby!

    A custodian I know once told me that back when he was a ne’er do well ( aka Crack Head) whenever he and his crew of druggies were standing on the street corner and a woman would walk by, everyone would hide their brown bagged liquor bottles. Gone are the days!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Formerly CARealist
    Michelle,

    Feminists hate women, but they hate God even more. See, he's the one who made them born women. They wish they had been born men.
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  46. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Hollywood activism.

    Hollywood = narcissism of winners(or wanna-be winners)

    Activism = compassion for the losers

    Narcissism + Compassion = Narcompassion, or self-pitying diva-ism. Queen posing with the Bean.

    People who wanna be rich famous stars spewing platitudes about ‘justice’.

    Celebrity peddling Self-Pity

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  47. Romanian says:
    @snorlax
    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

    Per these numbers Lebanese genetic composition is

    44% Arabia
    14% Jewish Diaspora
    11% Northern Africa
    10% Asia Minor
    5% Southern Europe
    2% Eastern Africa

    Interestingly, they're less Arab than the Iranians

    56% Arabia
    24% Southern Asia
    6% Asia Minor
    4% Central Asia
    4% Eastern Africa
    2% Northern Africa
    2% Southern Europe

    Would the huge demographic shift during the beginning of the century and then during the Civil War era affect the results? The first saw large numbers of Muslims immigrating to previously mostly Christian Lebanon. The second saw the Lebanese Christians leaving in droves. From 84% Christian during the first quarter of the 20th century, to a quarter Christian in 1985, and approximately 40% today.

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    • Replies: @snorlax
    Yes, I would imagine that had a huge impact on those numbers. Is Lebanon really more Christian today than in the 80's?
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  48. Forbes says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Even from a distance it’s apparent she has a certain gravitas.

    Even from a distance it’s apparent she has gravity-defying boobs…

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  49. asdf says:

    Uh, well, Selma was/is a gorgeous woman. Shirley McClaine wasn’t bad either, back in the day.
    Don’t know the rest.

    My sympathies to any men in the audience for this.

    It’s getting hard to do the reductio-ad-absurdum thing when the world does it for you…

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  50. whorefinder says: • Website

    Reading this article, it would seem the Hate Whitey party is starting to crack up.

    That’s funny, because it was just this election that Whitey finally got together and started consciously voting as white, and put a yuuuge white bogeyman in the White House. You would think this would energize the coalition into reaffirming their connections and downplaying their differences.

    But it seems like the Hate Whiteys are spending all their time trying to win a bloody Pokemon Points battle. It’s like they’re bent on doubling down on playing the game that’s already over.

    P.S. Also, lol at a black woman believing she’s the hottest woman in the world. At times, I don’t know if the black female attitude of entitlement is based on a denial/reversal of reality to save their ego, while deep down knowing the truth, or whether, yes, black females really are that stupid and think everyone secretly lusts after them.

    P.P.S. It also reaffirms something as old as the Trojan War: if you want to start a group of women arguing, just roll and apple in that says “For the Fairest One of All.”

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  51. SFG says:
    @Steve Sailer
    That Taiwanese animated news company should animate this debate.

    It’s funny. They’re really pro-Trump because they think he’ll stand up to China.

    I should also add Americans are now all represented by fat people in their cartoons, because they’re cartoonists.

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    • Replies: @Ulick McGee
    Funny, the Taiwanese are the fatest N.E. Asians. Beautiful place and great people but they over eat (food's outstanding) and jump on their scooters to travel 100m.
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  52. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    How's that any different from Iranians claiming to be of Persian descent?

    Because Phoenician culture, unlike Persian culture, has been dead for well over a millennia. Doubtless there is some ancestral component, but the Lebanese aren’t notably less Arab than their neighbors (with the possible exception of Christian groups who intermarried with Frankish crusaders).

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    • Replies: @Karl
    49 Patrick Harris > Because Phoenician culture, unlike Persian culture, has been dead for
    well over a millennia



    "Cash is King" seems to have been their culture. I'd say that is alive and well.

    Now, let's clarify - they were quite sophisticated. They ==did have== financial derivatives. Mr A paying money to Mr B for assuming Mr A's contingent risk of a hazard actually becoming a peril - they had that.
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  53. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Rich, pampered and spoiled women competing for victim points and, as can be expected of any gathering of women, start acting catty towards each other. Put a box of kitty litter between them for separation as the claws come out. What’d they say, anyway?

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  54. anon says: • Disclaimer

    This reminded me of one of those old Greek dinner parties where Socrates, Plato, and the rest of the crew debated the major philosophical questions of the day.

    Hopefully, someone safekeeps this record of this meeting of these probing minds for the edification of future generations.

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    • Replies: @guest
    Symposia. They were drinking parties, ,so they probably got a bit incoherent. Instead of arguing over who had the most pokemon points, they probably argued over who got to be on top, if you know what I mean.

    (Kidding aside, top went to the senior member.)
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  55. Clyde says:

    Can you imaging these loony lib quasi feminists running any country? It would go bankrupt within a year. I am talking about the women referred to above and loony Madonna and loony Ashley Judd and the rest of the leaders of that pussy hat woman’s march. The first time I heard of it was Chelsea Handler shooting her mouth off.

    Women could never design and manufacture something as simple as a modern GE washing machine and they could not run a country as small as the Duchy of Grand Fenwick. Of course women have certain areas of life where they reign supreme. But too many modern women have lost the plot.

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  56. TangoMan says:

    This is what separate countries are for. Reading that was the equivalent of sitting in on a fire-circle of witch doctors trying to figure out how best to deal with the crisis of penis-stealing albino ghosts that are plaguing the village.

    Nice to visit that village for a day, but then time to come back to my customs and my country.

    That THIS is society now makes me feel like I’m in a Twilight Zone episode.

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  57. syonredux says:

    SJW Lumpengentsia weighs in:

    I also want to applaud the LA Times‘ reporter, Amy Kaufman, for including descriptions of Williams’ physicality. The discomfort, the helplessness, the moments taken for self-control…I think most of us have participated in or been present during conversations about privilege like this, and Kaufman captured exactly how punishing that emotional labor can be. It’s exhausting to argue a point while also policing your tone and body language so as not to offend the other person’s fragility. It’s painful to try and frame your point in the most palatable, rather than the most powerful, way. Including Williams’ quotes without that context would have erased that labor, and it’s important for people to see.

    I can’t articulate my thoughts on this all right now because that was a real anger inducing read, but I thought Hayek’s unbearably condescending tone and pointed calling of Williams as “baby” over and over was pretty gross and clearly added a huge amount of unnecessary discomfort to the entire room. She went in very aggressively without being willing to allow Williams to clarify.

    Yeah, I read the transcript of what happened the other day and it was truly painful to read. I was more than a little shocked at Salma’s behvior. This was not a healthy discussion, this was a scolding lecture with one older woman talking down to another. And from what I can gather from this mess of words it was the same old, same old: “All women”, “why dwell on your race”,”Anger isn’t helpful”. I really do not care that Salma is a WoC too (though I will defend her from those that insist on white washing her because of her melanin) WoC have been guilty of shutting down other WoC as well.
    And you can bet I’m side eyeing Cora What’s-Her-Face and Shirley Maclaine as well

    Yeah, Salma is on my s**t list after her extremely tone deaf and condescending remarks. I guess being married to a billionaire cloaks her in plenty of privilege

    There’s def some class privilege going on here. And values dissonance; as someone who is older, been reared in the traditions of the second wave and been a part of the inner circle of Hollywood for a long time, Salma must have a big disconnect with what’s going on. I’m wondering what a younger Latina woman like America Ferrara would have said in her place. Probably something a lot different I’d imagine.

    At the beginning of that statement above, in the very act of launching the inquiry, Jessica took time to include ME, as a trans woman. She didn’t have to, but she did.

    When you’re fighting to have your own identity recognized and understood, and you take a moment to include a group that you’re not even part of…

    On the off chance you ever see this, Jessica: you rock. You rock HARD. I wanna be like you when I grow up.

    http://www.themarysue.com/jessica-williams-women-in-film/

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    • Replies: @guest
    "It's exhausting to argue a point while also policing your tone and body language so as not to offend the other person's fragility"

    No it isn't. That's called manners.

    Or I sgould say normally it wouldn't be. But we live in an age of anti-politeness. It's hard to be polite in a world where manners are as changeable as the wind, I'll grant them that.

    What's exhausting is keeping up with the Intersectionality Sweepstakes. Also, bearing up a civilization gone mad and enduring what you perceive to be injustice. Finally, most exhausting of all is the dishonesty and play-acting required to cover up the strictly hierarchical nature of what we take for liberal society.

    We don't want to take it for that, so we have to lie. I don't mind living a lie, or several lies, but I don't want every conversation to be nothing but lies.

    Notice how they're acting so lowly, so abject, so underdoggy. Appearing to be in competition for who's worse-off. In reality they're competing for who has power over whom.

    That's quite a tiresome amount of indirection. I imagine that's what it was like to be at the court of Louis XIV. Only upsidedown and less wholesome.

    , @Forbes
    Those are some headache inducing comments...
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  58. Hubbub says:
    @Hodag
    "Can I interrupt, because I feel misunderstood,” Hayek agreed.

    " We all agree that humans, at base, are animals and subject to the same evolutionary pressures as any other animal. And in the last ten thousand years humans have been highly selected for certain traits, both physical and mental."

    "Look at the non gracile skulls so common in the Irish. Look at the altitude adjustment of the genome of Tibetans. Look at the k selection in sub Saharan Africans".

    "Can't we finally accept each other?"

    And in the last ten thousand years humans have been highly selected for certain traits, both physical and mental.

    Just a slight correction here, if you will…

    And in the last ten thousand years humans have been highly selected for certain traits, both physical and [menstrual].

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  59. Bleuteaux says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Don't forget classic film era Mexican superstar Dolores Del Rio.

    From Wikipedia:

    She was the first major female Latin cross-over star in Hollywood,[2][3][4][5] with an outstanding career in American films in the 1920s and 1930s. She was also considered one of the more important female figures of the Golden Age of Mexican cinema in the 1940s and 1950s.[6] Del Río is remembered as one of the most beautiful faces of the cinema in her time.[7] Her long and varied career spanned silent film, sound film, television, stage and radio.

    Just using her as an example, it’s amazing how every minority actor or politician today, in 2017, is seen as doing some kind of miraculous social breakthrough as if no one had ever done it before.

    I went on an old movies kick a few years ago, bought a bunch of DVDs with modern commentary to go with them. No matter what decade the movie was filmed, the presence of a minority was usually lauded as some kind of risky breakthrough moment. Didn’t matter if it was 1925 or 1975.

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    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
    Indeed so. I virtually never watch recent movies or television shows anymore, but the ones I do like (movies from late 30s through 1960; television from late 50s through early 60s--all before my time) invariably treat minority characters as precious talismans, full of moral integrity and profound wisdom. Granted, they're not all neurosurgeons and nuclear physicists as nowadays, but the big difference is that white males were also often depicted as honest, decent, hard-working people--which almost never happens today.

    There are exceptions, of course: Hollywood in its 'Golden Age' sometimes treated schvartzesas menial help, and women were sometimes shown as fulfilled wives and mothers (the horror!). But especially by the late 1950s, it was as nothing to depict women and minorities in positions of considerable power, and--critically--nothing was made of it. It just wasn't that big of a deal.

    Nonetheless, I can't help but think that the immigrant propaganda campaign was already in full swing, helping to lay the groundwork for Hart-Celler (our nation's death sentence).

    Big star-studded Hollywood productions like George Stevens's Giant are an interesting case in point. What starts out as an epic, multi-generational saga of a Texas family morphs into an endless harangue about race relations and 'white privilege' (although they didn't call it that in the 1950s). "Guess what?" the film asks us: "Racism and sexism are really really bad!"

    In case you aren't sure, Giant spends three hours repeatedly hammering this point home, over and over. Although, notably, it's concerned with Mexicans only and the blacks in the film remain in properly subservient roles. I guess we pick and choose our lessons. By the end (it finally does end), Liz Taylor delivers the final speech, wherein she declares that by beating up some evil racists, Rock Hudson has finally become her hero.

    This was the norm in the mass media, 60 years ago. Consider how a major musical like South Pacific follows a similar trajectory. It was hardly groundbreaking even then, but we're told nowadays that it never even happened.

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  60. IBC says:

    My generation, they said, ‘Go back to Mexico. You’ll never be anything other than a maid in this country.’ By the head​s ​of studios!

    And now that she’s famous, what’s stopping her from naming and shaming the actual people involved? Isn’t she letting down the team by not giving specifics? Otherwise, it doesn’t sound very credible given her appearance and background.

    Or maybe she did actually hear something like that when her agent once made a sarcastic remark or in a drunken message from some entitled studio honcho after spurning his advances. That’s a lot more likely. She should admit how fortunate she’s been, even before she hit the big time.

    And Baabdat is apparently a Phalangist town:

    http://gulfnews.com/news/mena/lebanon/phalange-wins-big-in-lebanon-polls-amid-christian-party-face-off-1.1828544

    Hayek should cut her losses and re-cast herself as a Phoenician-American. She could then claim victim status amongst all the Persians in Beverly Hills.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    Selma Hayek is what you get when you cross a Conquistador with a Phoenician who poses as a spokesman for the brown Mexican masses. A Jorge Ramos in drag.
    , @Forbes
    Since when do studio heads deal with wanna-be actresses, except to bed them... Why would they even bother to give such advice?
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  61. Whiskey says: • Website

    THIS is what happens when women don’t brag on having the best, most beautiful kids, or husbands, etc. They go insane.

    See Shirley McClaine, resident of Atlantis and Hunk-Ra or whatever.

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  62. Hubbub says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Even from a distance it’s apparent she has a certain gravitas.

    Even from a distance it’s apparent she has a certain gravitas.

    She has two of them gravitases, in fact.

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  63. @Maj
    Pardon my heteronormativity, but is there a hotter 50 yr old on the planet than Ms. Hayek? No wonder poor Jessica Williams got so rustled.

    She is one of the hottest women on the planet. What an unbelievable existence.

    Edward Norton, wherever we may meet, every round is on me. Salud brother.

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  64. Clyde says:
    @IBC

    My generation, they said, ‘Go back to Mexico. You’ll never be anything other than a maid in this country.’ By the head​s ​of studios!
     
    And now that she's famous, what's stopping her from naming and shaming the actual people involved? Isn't she letting down the team by not giving specifics? Otherwise, it doesn't sound very credible given her appearance and background.

    Or maybe she did actually hear something like that when her agent once made a sarcastic remark or in a drunken message from some entitled studio honcho after spurning his advances. That's a lot more likely. She should admit how fortunate she's been, even before she hit the big time.

    And Baabdat is apparently a Phalangist town:

    http://gulfnews.com/news/mena/lebanon/phalange-wins-big-in-lebanon-polls-amid-christian-party-face-off-1.1828544

    Hayek should cut her losses and re-cast herself as a Phoenician-American. She could then claim victim status amongst all the Persians in Beverly Hills.

    Selma Hayek is what you get when you cross a Conquistador with a Phoenician who poses as a spokesman for the brown Mexican masses. A Jorge Ramos in drag.

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  65. Mr. Anon says:

    “Cora, who had been in the kitchen cooking lamb stew and halibut, wandered over to share that she grew up gay in Mississippi, where she was sexually abused from age 6.”

    Sexual abuse seems to be a common denominator in the backgrounds of a lot of lesbians (and some male homosexuals as well).

    By the way, Cora was so marginalized that she was (as an out lesbian) an iron chef on the Cooking Channel.

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    • Replies: @neoconned
    It's sad Cora is a rug eater, she's not half bad looking. Greek women age well.
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  66. snorlax says:
    @Romanian
    Would the huge demographic shift during the beginning of the century and then during the Civil War era affect the results? The first saw large numbers of Muslims immigrating to previously mostly Christian Lebanon. The second saw the Lebanese Christians leaving in droves. From 84% Christian during the first quarter of the 20th century, to a quarter Christian in 1985, and approximately 40% today.

    Yes, I would imagine that had a huge impact on those numbers. Is Lebanon really more Christian today than in the 80′s?

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    • Replies: @Romanian
    Apparently, the relative peace meant that some of the Christian refugees/emigres came back. But the diaspora is still huge and majority Christian and apparently there was some internal disagreement in the country regarding whether to give them the vote, which would give Christians an outsized say into internal matters. Plenty of Lebanese in my country as well. Very rich, too. I can tell that they're mostly Christians because the women dress immodestly to say the least at community events, like the National Day of Lebanon. And they seem very patriotic in the civic sense.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Lebanon
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  67. Amasius says:
    @Patrick Harris
    As Arab as anyone else in the Arabic-speaking world (with the possible exception of people on the actual Arabian peninsula). However, Lebanese nationalists like to deny that and say they're really Phoenecians.

    If I had to choose I’d rather be a Phoenician than an Arab. Great travelers and explorers, played an important role in the invention of the alphabet, pretty cool mythology. My favorite Semites.

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  68. Mr. Anon says:
    @Maj
    Pardon my heteronormativity, but is there a hotter 50 yr old on the planet than Ms. Hayek? No wonder poor Jessica Williams got so rustled.

    “Pardon my heteronormativity, but is there a hotter 50 yr old on the planet than Ms. Hayek?”

    She’s something else. I remember first seeing her as the snake-dancer / vampire in From Dusk Till Dawn

    Susan Sarandon is 70, and she still looks good.

    Good genes and good living, I suppose.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Susan Sarandon is 70, and still looks good.
     
    Oh, good grief - what's next? Gloria Steinem still has it? Barbara Streisand is a looker? Shirley MacLaine makes

    I am all for non disputandem de gustibus est and all that, but really. Come on, the Wicked Witch of the West will be next.

    Okay, if you like Ms. Sarandon I wish you the best of luck with her. But if you wake up bereft of your manhood after your evening of bliss don't say you weren't warned.
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  69. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    “Salma Hayek is married to Francois Henri Pinault – family fortune estimated at $13 billion.”

    Must… keep… straight… face…

    François-Henri Pinault:

    “…completed military service in the French Consulate Economic Expansion station in Los Angeles, during which he was in charge of studying fashion and new technology sectors.”

    I understand it’s France, and fashion is very economically important and all, but still…

    Read More
    • Replies: @attilathehen
    And they have daughter, Valentina. She is tri-lingual (French, Spanish, English) She's French, Lebanese, Spanish, Mexican Spanish. She's got a bigger deck of victim cards to play with. I'm sure she'll work in French colonialism and USA imperialsim into her history. I should have been so lucky.
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  70. @TelfoedJohn
    Lebanese Christians are no less European than Greeks, by Lebanese Muslims have mixed with Arabs further south.

    I’m predicting some fallout from the Syrian conflict (which Bashar’s Alawite-dominated regime appears to be winning) will be Syrians, Lebanese and Jordanians distancing themselves from “Arab.”

    You can read about the history of Ba’athism and compare it to the modern tendency of Iberian Mexicans to appropriate aboriginal American identity, like iSteve’s favorite calendar girl for Latino identity politics, Xochitl Hinojosa (on the left):

    Here’s a more recent pic:

    Any way, Ba’athism comes across as being an earnest effort by smart, Orthodox Christian Marxists to forge a pan-Arabic identity. However, I think the Levantine Arab-speakers will come out of this as distinctly anti-Gulf Arab.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The horrible thing about the Middle East is that the Ba'athist types always seem to lose.

    I knew a bunch of Ba'athists at Rice U. way back in the 1970s.

    , @Autochthon
    Some people I went to law school with who were active in the Latino Law Students' Association or Whatever and were keen to identify as mestizoid victims despite being wealthy and phenotypically (if not genotypically) pretty much entirely European, and many quite easy on the eyes to boot (i.e., they were treated like attractive white people their entire lives), were doing this stuff decades ago. I recall maybe two actual mestizo people in the organisation, and even they favoured their Caucasian ancestors' phenotype, just as Hayek does.

    These are the kinds of struggles these people have, now that they have finished soaking up all the "affirmative action" to go to the front of the line for jobs and education for being ostensibly oppressed:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/veegirl1979/status/2163423577
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  71. sayless says:
    @guest
    The comment "I'm the hottest bitch on the planet" captures the real question: who's prettier? Who's prettier wins.

    By the way, I'm up on SJW theory (applied pokemon points) and accustomed to the way they write, in academese, op-eds, and internet comment sections alike. But is this how they talk in person, or are they just stupid actresses? Because I could barely follow.

    Maybe I have intersectionality fatigue and am sick of having to interpret, like by line, based on where each speaker sits in the hierarchy.

    “…is this how they talk in person, or are they just stupid actresses?”

    It’s both/and, don’t you think?

    Off to listen to some Earl Scruggs and have another.

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  72. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @snorlax
    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

    Per these numbers Lebanese genetic composition is

    44% Arabia
    14% Jewish Diaspora
    11% Northern Africa
    10% Asia Minor
    5% Southern Europe
    2% Eastern Africa

    Interestingly, they're less Arab than the Iranians

    56% Arabia
    24% Southern Asia
    6% Asia Minor
    4% Central Asia
    4% Eastern Africa
    2% Northern Africa
    2% Southern Europe

    So apart from the 7% Southern Europe and Eastern Africa component, they’re 93% Middle Eastern/North African, which is basically what people mean when they say “Arab.”

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  73. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @syonredux

    Williams barely looked up. Still, the back-and-forth continued, with Hayek questioning whether or not she was considered a woman of color in Williams’ estimation. Nearly everyone in the room responded that Hayek was.
     
    Look, Salma, you've gotta understood that not all POC are created equal.......Black woman trumps (heh) Lebanese-Hispanic....

    “Baby, I’m Mexican and Arab,” she went on, addressing Williams.
     
    On the other hand, you've gotta appreciate how the old girl goes for the intersectional throat. Ten years ago, she would have just talked about being Mexican/Hispanic, but now she understands that that is not good enough.....Although, gotta say, current thinking (you know, in the Trumpenreich) prioritizes "Arabness"....So, maybe she should re-think her self- definition, make it "Arab and Mexican," not "Mexican and Arab." Don't want to bury the lede....

    “I’m from another generation, baby, when this was not even a possibility. My generation, they said, ‘Go back to Mexico. You’ll never be anything other than a maid in this country.’ By the head​s ​of studios! There was no movement. Latino women were not even anywhere near where you guys are. I was the first one. I’m 50 years old. So I understand.”

    “You don’t understand,” Williams said, shaking her head quietly.
     
    Salma, we all understand your pain. You've spoken so eloquently about your difficult childhood:

    "I thought I was a princess.I lived in a castle.and my father was a king.I wore tiaras.I was born divas-ish.When other kids were getting excited about toys, I would get excited about clothes."
     
    (Salma Hayek: Actress, Director, and Producer
    By Kerrily Sapet)


    And then there's your struggle with body-image:

    “I was getting tested a lot because everybody was older and I was the skinny tomboy… I went to a church that had a saint that was supposed to do a lot of miracles. I put my hands in holy waited and went: ‘Please Jesus give me some boobs.”
     
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/09/salma-hayek-boobs_n_1140150.html

    Even if she’s from a wealthy and privileged background, she probably was teased if she went to school in the US back then. When I went to school, I had classes that were all white with a few white Hispanic types and Lebanese Catholics who’d be called names and taunted.

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    • Troll: IHTG
    • Replies: @attilathehen
    Jeanine Pirro (Justice with Judge Jeanine Fox News) born 1951, Lebanese Catholic is not someone who met with any taunting at her Catholic schools. I went to white Catholic schools with white Hispanics and Lebanese Christians. They were very popular. Salma is just playing the "victim card" because she knows she's had white privilege her entire life. Mr. Sailer calls this "moving away from whiteness." She's just trying to build up street cred among the mestizo masses in the USA. She would never do this in Mexico.
    , @Herzog
    And? So what?
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  74. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Note to celebs getting grief from Selma.

    Next time you get sick of arguing with her, just show her a snake:

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  75. Mr. Anon says:

    OT: Howard Schultz announces that there are 10,000 americans he won’t be hiring over the next five years.

    To all those recent college grads who hung out at Starbucks while you were working on your essays about feminist street theater or gay themes in comic books or the social construction of cis-het white supremecism………..thank’s for the business, but you won’t be paying off your student loan debt with your barrista tips. Try Dunkin’. Maybe they’ll be hiring.

    Read More
    • Replies: @European-American
    Starbucks says it will hire 10,000 refugees over the next five years, a response to President Donald Trump's indefinite suspension of Syrian refugees and temporary travel bans that apply to six other Muslim-majority nations.
    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/national-politics/article129518569.html

    Oh my god the news needs to stop my head is going to explode

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  76. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @snorlax
    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

    Per these numbers Lebanese genetic composition is

    44% Arabia
    14% Jewish Diaspora
    11% Northern Africa
    10% Asia Minor
    5% Southern Europe
    2% Eastern Africa

    Interestingly, they're less Arab than the Iranians

    56% Arabia
    24% Southern Asia
    6% Asia Minor
    4% Central Asia
    4% Eastern Africa
    2% Northern Africa
    2% Southern Europe

    Phoenicians were originally from Southern Europe but settled around the Mediterranean. So Lebanese could be up to ~26% Phoenician, I guess?

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Phoenicians were originally from Southern Europe but settled around the Mediterranean. So Lebanese could be up to ~26% Phoenician, I guess?
     
    That's a new one on me:

    Phoenicia (UK /fᵻˈnɪʃə/ or US /fəˈniːʃə/;[2] from the Greek: Φοινίκη, Phoiníkē meaning the colour purple; Arabic: فينيقية‎‎, Fīnīqīyah) was an ancient Semitic thalassocratic civilization situated on the East Mediterranean coastal part of the Fertile Crescent, on the coastline of what is now Lebanon, Israel, Jordan, Gaza, Syria and south west Turkey, though some colonies later reached the Western Mediterranean and even the Atlantic Ocean, the most famous being Carthage. The enterprising, sea-based Phoenician civilization spread across the Mediterranean between 1500 BC and 300 BC.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia

    Canaanite culture apparently developed in situ from the earlier Ghassulian chalcolithic culture. Ghassulian itself developed from the Circum-Arabian Nomadic Pastoral Complex, which in turn developed from a fusion of their ancestral Natufian and Harifian cultures with Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB) farming cultures, practicing animal domestication, during the 6200 BC climatic crisis which led to the Neolithic Revolution in the Levant.[20] Byblos is attested as an archaeological site from the Early Bronze Age. The Late Bronze Age state of Ugarit is considered quintessentially Canaanite archaeologically,[21] even though its Ugaritic language does not belong to the Canaanite language group proper.[
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia#Origins
    , @Marat Said
    I think you're confusing the Phoenicians, a Semitic ethnicity, with the Philistines, who were a non-Semitic group that arrived in the Levant from (probably) either the Aegean or Anatolia.
    , @AP
    Phoenicians were Semites but were not Arabs. Lebanese Christians emphasize Lebanon's Phoenician background to highlight that their distinction from Arabs.

    It is similar to how (Semitic) Chaldean Christians in Iraq emphasize their descent from Babylonians, rather than from the Arab invaders who swamped the territory where they live, and whom they look down on.

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  77. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Even from a distance it’s apparent she has a certain gravitas.

    Even from a distance it’s apparent she has a certain gravitas.

    Gravitatas.

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    • LOL: celt darnell
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  78. Travis says:
    @Hhsiii
    [some lesbian chef]


    Classic.

    Hmm, Hayek was the first? Maria Conchita Alonso is 9 years older and I bet thinks Hayek's breasts robbed her of a few parts.

    And Katy Jurado and Carmen miranda were a million years ago:

    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-iQqs4UL92ME/TWwObx69M7I/AAAAAAAAAOE/BLpVOOPFfSs/s1600/Grace+Kelly%252C+Katy+Jurado+dans+Le+Train+sifflera+trois+fois.jpeg

    does Rita Hayworth (born Margarita Carmen Cansino) get any pokemon points for having 4 spanish grandparents ?

    what about Raquel Welsh ? born Jo Raquel Tejada , her father was Bolivian.

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    • Replies: @Hhsiii
    I didn't know that. So Orson Welles had a muy caliente thing going on, since he was married to Hayworth and lived with Drlores Del Rio
    , @Kyle McKenna
    Rita Hayworth is the one I thought of first. Check her out, if you haven't, in The Lady from Shanghai and in Gilda. While filming the former, she was in the midst of her divorce from Orson Welles (the film's producer-director-screenwriter-star) and in the latter, she delivers this unforgettable number (twice!), about Chicago and other things:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3uzB-q0jsU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY2IpSCV-Nk

    Rita Hayworth definitely has authentic Latina cred:
    http://www.nytimes.com/1989/11/19/books/what-we-have-here-is-a-very-sad-story.html

    , @Logan
    Actually, Rita's father was Spanish, but her mother was Irish-English American.
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  79. I am reminded of nothing so much as this timeless clip from “Home Movies”:

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  80. JerseyGuy says:

    Steve,
    I’m honestly really curious to see what happens with Israel over the next 10 years. The Left seems to have lost interest in the plight of the Jews. Most Leftist Jews in America are quite deracinated and aren’t anymore Jewish as Hillary Clinton is Episcopalian.

    I really can see Jews (in the observant sense) going Republican quite suddenly. Jared Kushner seems to know what he is doing. I won’t bet against him.

    Read More
    • Agree: Frau Katze
    • Replies: @Anon
    "Most Leftist Jews in America are quite deracinated and aren’t anymore Jewish as Hillary Clinton is Episcopalian."

    Homo-politics is the new Jewish identity.
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  81. MC says:

    This reads like some sort of iSteve fan fiction.

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  82. @Mr. Anon
    OT: Howard Schultz announces that there are 10,000 americans he won't be hiring over the next five years.

    To all those recent college grads who hung out at Starbucks while you were working on your essays about feminist street theater or gay themes in comic books or the social construction of cis-het white supremecism...........thank's for the business, but you won't be paying off your student loan debt with your barrista tips. Try Dunkin'. Maybe they'll be hiring.

    Starbucks says it will hire 10,000 refugees over the next five years, a response to President Donald Trump’s indefinite suspension of Syrian refugees and temporary travel bans that apply to six other Muslim-majority nations.

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/national-politics/article129518569.html

    Oh my god the news needs to stop my head is going to explode

    Read More
    • Replies: @JerryC
    LOL. Is that even legal? "Sorry, we're only hiring refugees".
    , @TWS
    It'll be as safe as working at an 80's era post office. Sudden jihad syndrome breaking out just when you want your coffee. Don't ask for the dark roast Arabica.
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  83. @Anonymous
    Even if she's from a wealthy and privileged background, she probably was teased if she went to school in the US back then. When I went to school, I had classes that were all white with a few white Hispanic types and Lebanese Catholics who'd be called names and taunted.

    Jeanine Pirro (Justice with Judge Jeanine Fox News) born 1951, Lebanese Catholic is not someone who met with any taunting at her Catholic schools. I went to white Catholic schools with white Hispanics and Lebanese Christians. They were very popular. Salma is just playing the “victim card” because she knows she’s had white privilege her entire life. Mr. Sailer calls this “moving away from whiteness.” She’s just trying to build up street cred among the mestizo masses in the USA. She would never do this in Mexico.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Back in 1982 I knew a Lebanese-American guy whose CEO dad had previously been on the cover of Fortune magazine.
    , @Anonymous
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanine_Pirro#Early_life

    Pirro was born in Elmira, New York, to Nasser "Leo" and Esther (née Awad) Ferris. Her father was a mobile-home salesman; her mother was a department-store model. Both her parents are first-generation Lebanese Americans.[4] Pirro says she was taunted for being Middle-Eastern growing up, with other kids calling her 'Camel Jockey' and 'Fat Lips'.[4]
     
    , @Anonymous
    I get Steve's shtick here. It's not completely wrong, but it's not completely right either. It's sort of his version of retconning history. It's obviously not as egregious and wrong as the left's attempts to retcon history, but it still distorts the actual history to a degree. Like the left's retconning, it's for a political purpose, although again, it's obviously not as bad as the left's political purpose. The purpose is to manufacture solidarity and suggest that everything was actually hunky-dory and harmonious in the past, so everything should be harmonious today. It's an understandable and noble purpose, but it's not necessarily accurate.

    For example, his account of Jews and country clubs in the 20th century emphasizes intra-Jewish exclusion and serves to suggest that Jewish exclusion was somehow in reality miniscule or negligible.This is understandable since Jews today draw on this experience to justify leftist politics, but that doesn't mean it's accurate.

    The examples of privileged Mexicans and Lebanese are in the same vein. The fact that they were wealthy and privileged did not mean that they weren't bullied and disparaged or perceived differently by kids and young people in school in mid century America. The white Hispanic type kids and the Lebanese Catholics we had in school were likely wealthier and more privileged than the rest of the student body, but the kids didn't care and they were still teased and bullied. My local county little league growing up, whose teams were sponsored by local civic organizations like the Kiwanis club, did not let Catholic kids to join, even though the league wasn't religious. It's not implausible at all that Hayek would have been teased and treated differently for her exotic background and appearance in many parts of the country decades ago, despite her wealthy and privileged background.
    , @SPMoore8
    Salma's career has been in a decline ever since she did the pole dance thing in Dogma. Age, lack of height, lack of mastery of English: these things add up over time. So then you start looking for other ways to be relevant. She has my sincere best wishes.
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  84. Njguy73 says:
    @syonredux

    “I’m from another generation, baby, when this was not even a possibility. My generation, they said, ‘Go back to Mexico. You’ll never be anything other than a maid in this country.’ By the head​s ​of studios!
     
    Of course, Salma, Mexico is not exactly well-known for color blind casting:

    Mestizo actors conspicuously absent from commercial ads in Mexico
     

    Light-skinned actors get the vast majority of roles in television commercials in Mexico, laying bare the racism that persists in this majority mestizo nation.

    "Commercials for consumer products require an aspirational profile, and that is white with light eyes, medium height and between 25 and 45 years old. The international Latino type," actor Rodrigo Franco, president of the National Interpreters Association, told EFE.

    The 51-year-old Franco, who is 1.56 meters (5-foot-1) in height and has "typical Mexican" features, said he had faced repeated discrimination in the advertising and acting worlds.

    He said that unfair treatment had included being asked by a director to furnish an acting degree at an audition for a part as a construction worker and being kicked off a set by a security guard who said he could not be part of the cast because of his appearance.

    Options for the "native Mexican" are restricted to commercials on government programs, which make up just 5 percent of television ads, Franco said.
     
    <blockquote>In August 2013, a casting call sparked outrage. Mexico's flagship air carrier, Aeromexico, said it was looking for actors and actresses for one of its commercials but specified that it wanted "nobody dark-skinned."
     http://www.efe.com/efe/english/life/mestizo-actors-conspicuously-absent-from-commercial-ads-in-mexico/50000263-3133515

    Of course, Salma, Mexico is not exactly well-known for color blind casting:

    “If you aren`t familiar with the depths of Mexico`s blonde obsession, try watching Spanish-language TV shows. Almost all the women on Mexican TV look like Finns.” – Steve Sailer, May 2000

    http://www.vdare.com/articles/americas-imported-caste-system

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "If you aren`t familiar with the depths of Mexico`s blonde obsession, try watching Spanish-language TV shows. Almost all the women on Mexican TV look like Finns.” – Steve Sailer, May 2000"

    It's fake blonde hair dye, hence why it's only the women but not the men who have blond hair on Mexican television.

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  85. @Barnard
    Cindy Crawford still looks good for 50.

    Kathy Ireland, 53

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  86. @anonymous
    "Salma Hayek is married to Francois Henri Pinault – family fortune estimated at $13 billion."

    Must... keep... straight... face...

    François-Henri Pinault:


    "...completed military service in the French Consulate Economic Expansion station in Los Angeles, during which he was in charge of studying fashion and new technology sectors."

     

    I understand it's France, and fashion is very economically important and all, but still...

    And they have daughter, Valentina. She is tri-lingual (French, Spanish, English) She’s French, Lebanese, Spanish, Mexican Spanish. She’s got a bigger deck of victim cards to play with. I’m sure she’ll work in French colonialism and USA imperialsim into her history. I should have been so lucky.

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  87. Herzog says:
    @Anonymous
    Even if she's from a wealthy and privileged background, she probably was teased if she went to school in the US back then. When I went to school, I had classes that were all white with a few white Hispanic types and Lebanese Catholics who'd be called names and taunted.

    And? So what?

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  88. @SFG
    It's funny. They're really pro-Trump because they think he'll stand up to China.

    I should also add Americans are now all represented by fat people in their cartoons, because they're cartoonists.

    Funny, the Taiwanese are the fatest N.E. Asians. Beautiful place and great people but they over eat (food’s outstanding) and jump on their scooters to travel 100m.

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  89. JerryC says:
    @European-American
    Starbucks says it will hire 10,000 refugees over the next five years, a response to President Donald Trump's indefinite suspension of Syrian refugees and temporary travel bans that apply to six other Muslim-majority nations.
    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/national-politics/article129518569.html

    Oh my god the news needs to stop my head is going to explode

    LOL. Is that even legal? “Sorry, we’re only hiring refugees”.

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  90. @guest
    The comment "I'm the hottest bitch on the planet" captures the real question: who's prettier? Who's prettier wins.

    By the way, I'm up on SJW theory (applied pokemon points) and accustomed to the way they write, in academese, op-eds, and internet comment sections alike. But is this how they talk in person, or are they just stupid actresses? Because I could barely follow.

    Maybe I have intersectionality fatigue and am sick of having to interpret, like by line, based on where each speaker sits in the hierarchy.

    Arguments over victim points: this could get boring really fast. You’ve read one, you’ve read them all.

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  91. @Mr. Blank
    Salma Hayek can have ALL my Pokemon Points anytime she wants.

    Please enumerate your victim points and why you deserve them! ;-)

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    • Replies: @Romanian
    We should make a thread like this!
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  92. TWS says:

    That was just painful to read.

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  93. TWS says:
    @European-American
    Starbucks says it will hire 10,000 refugees over the next five years, a response to President Donald Trump's indefinite suspension of Syrian refugees and temporary travel bans that apply to six other Muslim-majority nations.
    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/national-politics/article129518569.html

    Oh my god the news needs to stop my head is going to explode

    It’ll be as safe as working at an 80′s era post office. Sudden jihad syndrome breaking out just when you want your coffee. Don’t ask for the dark roast Arabica.

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  94. Lot says:
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  95. IBC says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Don't forget classic film era Mexican superstar Dolores Del Rio.

    From Wikipedia:

    She was the first major female Latin cross-over star in Hollywood,[2][3][4][5] with an outstanding career in American films in the 1920s and 1930s. She was also considered one of the more important female figures of the Golden Age of Mexican cinema in the 1940s and 1950s.[6] Del Río is remembered as one of the most beautiful faces of the cinema in her time.[7] Her long and varied career spanned silent film, sound film, television, stage and radio.

    Also, Lupe Vélez; perhaps the originator of the fiery Latin(a) screen stereotype:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lupe_V%C3%A9lez

    In the early ’40s, she starred in a series of comedy films that sound like they had a lot in common with “I Love Lucy:”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Spitfire_%28film_series%29

    And note the trendy ethno-racial take in the last section of the second link.

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  96. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    How's that any different from Iranians claiming to be of Persian descent?

    Iran and Persia mean the same thing. The natives always called their country Iran.

    But the ancient Greeks started calling it Persia based on the name of province closest to them.

    But note: there are many non-Iranian in Iran: Azeris, Armenians, Kurds and Arabs (the main ones).

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  97. @TelfoedJohn
    Lebanese Christians are no less European than Greeks, by Lebanese Muslims have mixed with Arabs further south.

    Got any DNA evidence to back that up?

    The Sunni Muslims consider themselves as just as high class as the Christians (as opposed to the lowlife Shiites who just came from the farm and have brought in Iranian Hezbollah. Talk about ethnic traitors).

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  98. Hhsiii says:
    @Travis
    does Rita Hayworth (born Margarita Carmen Cansino) get any pokemon points for having 4 spanish grandparents ?

    what about Raquel Welsh ? born Jo Raquel Tejada , her father was Bolivian.

    I didn’t know that. So Orson Welles had a muy caliente thing going on, since he was married to Hayworth and lived with Drlores Del Rio

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  99. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @JerseyGuy
    Steve,
    I'm honestly really curious to see what happens with Israel over the next 10 years. The Left seems to have lost interest in the plight of the Jews. Most Leftist Jews in America are quite deracinated and aren't anymore Jewish as Hillary Clinton is Episcopalian.

    I really can see Jews (in the observant sense) going Republican quite suddenly. Jared Kushner seems to know what he is doing. I won't bet against him.

    “Most Leftist Jews in America are quite deracinated and aren’t anymore Jewish as Hillary Clinton is Episcopalian.”

    Homo-politics is the new Jewish identity.

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  100. @snorlax
    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

    Per these numbers Lebanese genetic composition is

    44% Arabia
    14% Jewish Diaspora
    11% Northern Africa
    10% Asia Minor
    5% Southern Europe
    2% Eastern Africa

    Interestingly, they're less Arab than the Iranians

    56% Arabia
    24% Southern Asia
    6% Asia Minor
    4% Central Asia
    4% Eastern Africa
    2% Northern Africa
    2% Southern Europe

    But that’s the country as a whole.

    You need DNA stats for each of Christians, Sunnis and Shiites.

    And don’t forget all the small groups like the Druze.

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  101. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    There’s before and after pics of Hayek’ nose job on the internet. So much for the ‘all-natural’ look. She’s also believed to have had breast augmentation based on how she previously looked compared to now. Kind of fake on all levels.

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  102. syonredux says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    Phoenicians were originally from Southern Europe but settled around the Mediterranean. So Lebanese could be up to ~26% Phoenician, I guess?

    Phoenicians were originally from Southern Europe but settled around the Mediterranean. So Lebanese could be up to ~26% Phoenician, I guess?

    That’s a new one on me:

    Phoenicia (UK /fᵻˈnɪʃə/ or US /fəˈniːʃə/;[2] from the Greek: Φοινίκη, Phoiníkē meaning the colour purple; Arabic: فينيقية‎‎, Fīnīqīyah) was an ancient Semitic thalassocratic civilization situated on the East Mediterranean coastal part of the Fertile Crescent, on the coastline of what is now Lebanon, Israel, Jordan, Gaza, Syria and south west Turkey, though some colonies later reached the Western Mediterranean and even the Atlantic Ocean, the most famous being Carthage. The enterprising, sea-based Phoenician civilization spread across the Mediterranean between 1500 BC and 300 BC.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia

    Canaanite culture apparently developed in situ from the earlier Ghassulian chalcolithic culture. Ghassulian itself developed from the Circum-Arabian Nomadic Pastoral Complex, which in turn developed from a fusion of their ancestral Natufian and Harifian cultures with Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB) farming cultures, practicing animal domestication, during the 6200 BC climatic crisis which led to the Neolithic Revolution in the Levant.[20] Byblos is attested as an archaeological site from the Early Bronze Age. The Late Bronze Age state of Ugarit is considered quintessentially Canaanite archaeologically,[21] even though its Ugaritic language does not belong to the Canaanite language group proper.[

    Disclaimer

    These photos of bodacious babe-itude are good for blog morale.

    Bonus: in a still photo you don’t have to listen to her!

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  103. I met her today. It was at a local restaurant.

    She is very cute and very sexy at the same time.

    Her bone structure gives her a pretty face and nice body. If i hadn’t looked at wiki i would not have guessed her age.

    what was interesting is that she looks (irl) very “normal” but still very good.

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  104. Jason Liu says:

    The entire conversation is meaningless babble over social consensus or something. How can anyone waste so many words on nothing? They may as well have been going cluck cluck cluck.

    The three women should’ve be separated.

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  105. I’ve to tip my hat to those of you who understood what these 3 women were saying because I haven’t a dam clue what any of it means.

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  106. Svigor says:

    Shirley MacLaine, at 82, wearing purple and pink in honor of Saturday’s Women’s Marches, chimed in, saying that Donald Trump presented a challenge to “each of our inner democracy” and urged everyone at the table to explore their “core identity.”

    Shirley MacLaine is the loopy broad who claimed she could remember past lives, right? I just want to make sure I have that right.

    On the inside, for example, Shirley MacClaine is also, via her famous past lives, an androgyne of the pre-Atlantis Lemurian era, the harem girl of a Turkish pasha, a dancing girl of Old Isfahan, and “I remembered being a Muslim gypsy girl who had migrated from Morocco and was living with the Coptic Christians in the hills of Spain.”

    Yeah, thought so.

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  107. @anonymous
    Looks like its time for a reboot of George Cukor's "The Women"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBQyS9pMTng

    The real question is: why exactly do gay men get such a massive rush out of seeing women dressed outlandishly, full of attitude and being bitchy to each other? It’s near universal and holds across decades of time.

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  108. guest says:
    @anon
    This reminded me of one of those old Greek dinner parties where Socrates, Plato, and the rest of the crew debated the major philosophical questions of the day.

    Hopefully, someone safekeeps this record of this meeting of these probing minds for the edification of future generations.

    Symposia. They were drinking parties, ,so they probably got a bit incoherent. Instead of arguing over who had the most pokemon points, they probably argued over who got to be on top, if you know what I mean.

    (Kidding aside, top went to the senior member.)

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  109. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
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  110. Oh, something else interesting.

    In person, talking about “normal” things, she was very personable. Pleasant gal to talk to. Makes me wonder how other public figures are in real life.

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  111. guest says:
    @syonredux
    SJW Lumpengentsia weighs in:

    I also want to applaud the LA Times‘ reporter, Amy Kaufman, for including descriptions of Williams’ physicality. The discomfort, the helplessness, the moments taken for self-control…I think most of us have participated in or been present during conversations about privilege like this, and Kaufman captured exactly how punishing that emotional labor can be. It’s exhausting to argue a point while also policing your tone and body language so as not to offend the other person’s fragility. It’s painful to try and frame your point in the most palatable, rather than the most powerful, way. Including Williams’ quotes without that context would have erased that labor, and it’s important for people to see.
     

    I can't articulate my thoughts on this all right now because that was a real anger inducing read, but I thought Hayek's unbearably condescending tone and pointed calling of Williams as "baby" over and over was pretty gross and clearly added a huge amount of unnecessary discomfort to the entire room. She went in very aggressively without being willing to allow Williams to clarify.
     

    Yeah, I read the transcript of what happened the other day and it was truly painful to read. I was more than a little shocked at Salma's behvior. This was not a healthy discussion, this was a scolding lecture with one older woman talking down to another. And from what I can gather from this mess of words it was the same old, same old: "All women", "why dwell on your race","Anger isn't helpful". I really do not care that Salma is a WoC too (though I will defend her from those that insist on white washing her because of her melanin) WoC have been guilty of shutting down other WoC as well.
    And you can bet I'm side eyeing Cora What's-Her-Face and Shirley Maclaine as well
     

    Yeah, Salma is on my s**t list after her extremely tone deaf and condescending remarks. I guess being married to a billionaire cloaks her in plenty of privilege
     

    There's def some class privilege going on here. And values dissonance; as someone who is older, been reared in the traditions of the second wave and been a part of the inner circle of Hollywood for a long time, Salma must have a big disconnect with what's going on. I'm wondering what a younger Latina woman like America Ferrara would have said in her place. Probably something a lot different I'd imagine.
     

    At the beginning of that statement above, in the very act of launching the inquiry, Jessica took time to include ME, as a trans woman. She didn't have to, but she did.

    When you're fighting to have your own identity recognized and understood, and you take a moment to include a group that you're not even part of...

    On the off chance you ever see this, Jessica: you rock. You rock HARD. I wanna be like you when I grow up.

     

    http://www.themarysue.com/jessica-williams-women-in-film/

    “It’s exhausting to argue a point while also policing your tone and body language so as not to offend the other person’s fragility”

    No it isn’t. That’s called manners.

    Or I sgould say normally it wouldn’t be. But we live in an age of anti-politeness. It’s hard to be polite in a world where manners are as changeable as the wind, I’ll grant them that.

    What’s exhausting is keeping up with the Intersectionality Sweepstakes. Also, bearing up a civilization gone mad and enduring what you perceive to be injustice. Finally, most exhausting of all is the dishonesty and play-acting required to cover up the strictly hierarchical nature of what we take for liberal society.

    We don’t want to take it for that, so we have to lie. I don’t mind living a lie, or several lies, but I don’t want every conversation to be nothing but lies.

    Notice how they’re acting so lowly, so abject, so underdoggy. Appearing to be in competition for who’s worse-off. In reality they’re competing for who has power over whom.

    That’s quite a tiresome amount of indirection. I imagine that’s what it was like to be at the court of Louis XIV. Only upsidedown and less wholesome.

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  112. neoconned says:
    @guest
    The comment "I'm the hottest bitch on the planet" captures the real question: who's prettier? Who's prettier wins.

    By the way, I'm up on SJW theory (applied pokemon points) and accustomed to the way they write, in academese, op-eds, and internet comment sections alike. But is this how they talk in person, or are they just stupid actresses? Because I could barely follow.

    Maybe I have intersectionality fatigue and am sick of having to interpret, like by line, based on where each speaker sits in the hierarchy.

    Steve, you need to do stand up, bad.

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  113. Neoconned says:
    @Steve Sailer
    They remade "The Women" about a decade ago, but it was boring because the feminist director wasn't as funny as gay George Cukor.

    THat KKKKrazy glue is melting.

    I’m trying to hurry up and fill up my 401k. Everything else is going to gold and guns…..

    I figure they’ll start going nuts in 10-15 yrs as deflation turns into inflation and corporations can no longer hide inflation by making boxes smaller or reducing serving sizes and tricks like that. Then the welfare goes away due to the recent 3rd world immigrants and their kids taking bigger slices of the pie.

    They’ll blame us until they cant & then they’ll turn on each other and be at each other’s throats…

    Then the whole entire burning shithouse will collapse & the country will balkanize like the Russians think or the military will say screw it and set a junta and take political power.

    I suspect California to be the first state to crack up.

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  114. Jefferson says:
    @TelfoedJohn
    Lebanese Christians are no less European than Greeks, by Lebanese Muslims have mixed with Arabs further south.

    “Lebanese Christians are no less European than Greeks,”

    Lebanese Christians are not even as genetically European as Jews, let alone as genetically European as Greeks.

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  115. Jefferson says:
    @Njguy73

    Of course, Salma, Mexico is not exactly well-known for color blind casting:
     
    "If you aren`t familiar with the depths of Mexico`s blonde obsession, try watching Spanish-language TV shows. Almost all the women on Mexican TV look like Finns." - Steve Sailer, May 2000

    http://www.vdare.com/articles/americas-imported-caste-system

    “If you aren`t familiar with the depths of Mexico`s blonde obsession, try watching Spanish-language TV shows. Almost all the women on Mexican TV look like Finns.” – Steve Sailer, May 2000″

    It’s fake blonde hair dye, hence why it’s only the women but not the men who have blond hair on Mexican television.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    I'm pretty sure they've got at least a few natural blondes working in Mexican TV. There was one on Sabado Gigante who looked Scandinavian.
    , @Jim Bob Lassiter
    That's right and twenty-five years ago it would be provable by a "lay person" as the collars and the cuffs wouldn't match on 90+ per cent of the Mexican (and Venezuelan and Colombian) soap actrices. Nowadays, collars are getting a little scarce, so proof might be a little more involved.
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  116. Svigor says:

    How come nobody ever recovers memories of past lives as dullards, or people who died rotting in dungeons, or lepers?

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Shirley MacClaine and her brother, Warren Beatty, have enjoyed pretty kick-ass lives in this lifetime. Maybe they are just blessed through all eternity?
    , @syonredux
    Joseph Campbell once noted that every woman he had ever met who believed in reincarnation thought that she had been Nefertiti in a past life......
    , @res
    Now there's a mystery. One could make an argument that dramatic powerful lives make for more powerful and easily recoverable memories, but I rather doubt that is what is happening.
    , @Njguy73
    I saw Bull Durham, too.

    Annie Savoy: I think probably with my love of four-legged creatures and hooves and everything, that in another lifetime I was probably Catherine the Great, or Francis of Assisi. I'm not sure which one. What do you think?
    Crash Davis: How come in former lifetimes, everybody is someone famous?
    [Annie and Crash pause, then both laugh]
    Crash Davis: I mean,
    [still laughing]
    Crash Davis: how come nobody ever says they were Joe Schmo?
    Annie Savoy: [still laughing] Because it doesn't work that way, you fool!
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  117. Jefferson says:
    @snorlax
    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

    Per these numbers Lebanese genetic composition is

    44% Arabia
    14% Jewish Diaspora
    11% Northern Africa
    10% Asia Minor
    5% Southern Europe
    2% Eastern Africa

    Interestingly, they're less Arab than the Iranians

    56% Arabia
    24% Southern Asia
    6% Asia Minor
    4% Central Asia
    4% Eastern Africa
    2% Northern Africa
    2% Southern Europe

    “Per these numbers Lebanese genetic composition is

    44% Arabia
    14% Jewish Diaspora
    11% Northern Africa
    10% Asia Minor
    5% Southern Europe
    2% Eastern Africa”

    So the Lebanese are a whopping 95 percent Non European and only 5 percent European. But according to many people here on The Unz the Lebanese are genetically 100 percent pure unmixed Europeans who do not have a single drop of MENA Arab Semite blood pumping through their hearts. The Lebanese are the epitome of European racial pureness according to many people here The Unz. Lebanon should be part of The European Union according to many people here on The Unz.

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    • Replies: @AP
    1. These figures were for Lebanon as a whole, and not about each community within Lebanon. From a study described in National Geographic:

    "We noticed some interesting lineages in the dataset. Among Lebanese Christians, in particular, we found higher frequency of a genetic marker—R1b—that we typically see only in Western Europe," said Spencer Wells, a National Geographic Explorer-in-Residence.

    The study matched the western European Y-chromosome lineage against thousands of people in France, Germany, Italy, and the United Kingdom. Wells said the lineage was seen enriched to a higher frequency only in the Christian populations in Lebanon and was not seen in the Muslim population.

    "It certainly doesn't undermine the similarities among the various Lebanese communities, but it does agree with oral tradition—that some Lebanese Christians are descendants of Crusaders—and points to a genetic connection to the Crusaders," he added.

     

    It's only 2%, but it is not insignificant.

    2. Christianity is a central building block of European culture. Even though a Lebanese Christian is primary Arabic genetically, culturally he has much in common with Europeans.
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  118. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Intersections are where all the accidents happen.

    Bad idea, this ‘intersectionality’.

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  119. @Svigor
    How come nobody ever recovers memories of past lives as dullards, or people who died rotting in dungeons, or lepers?

    Shirley MacClaine and her brother, Warren Beatty, have enjoyed pretty kick-ass lives in this lifetime. Maybe they are just blessed through all eternity?

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  120. AKAHorace says:
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  121. I remember in high school when I realized that women really don’t like each other, even (especially?) their friends.

    Feminism is less threatening than other forms of special interest worship because women will reliably turn on each other in a way that an ethnic group won’t. Especially, as we see here, when the feminist agenda is in competition with an ethnic one.

    “Jessica, do you mind if I look at your eyes?”

    Williams barely looked up.

    This was probably the first time in Ms. Williams’ life somebody challenged her claim to the victimhood throne.

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    • Replies: @black sea
    “On one issue, at least, men and women agree: they both distrust women.”

    ― H.L. Mencken
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  122. @Bleuteaux
    Just using her as an example, it's amazing how every minority actor or politician today, in 2017, is seen as doing some kind of miraculous social breakthrough as if no one had ever done it before.

    I went on an old movies kick a few years ago, bought a bunch of DVDs with modern commentary to go with them. No matter what decade the movie was filmed, the presence of a minority was usually lauded as some kind of risky breakthrough moment. Didn't matter if it was 1925 or 1975.

    Indeed so. I virtually never watch recent movies or television shows anymore, but the ones I do like (movies from late 30s through 1960; television from late 50s through early 60s–all before my time) invariably treat minority characters as precious talismans, full of moral integrity and profound wisdom. Granted, they’re not all neurosurgeons and nuclear physicists as nowadays, but the big difference is that white males were also often depicted as honest, decent, hard-working people–which almost never happens today.

    There are exceptions, of course: Hollywood in its ‘Golden Age’ sometimes treated schvartzesas menial help, and women were sometimes shown as fulfilled wives and mothers (the horror!). But especially by the late 1950s, it was as nothing to depict women and minorities in positions of considerable power, and–critically–nothing was made of it. It just wasn’t that big of a deal.

    Nonetheless, I can’t help but think that the immigrant propaganda campaign was already in full swing, helping to lay the groundwork for Hart-Celler (our nation’s death sentence).

    Big star-studded Hollywood productions like George Stevens’s Giant are an interesting case in point. What starts out as an epic, multi-generational saga of a Texas family morphs into an endless harangue about race relations and ‘white privilege’ (although they didn’t call it that in the 1950s). “Guess what?” the film asks us: “Racism and sexism are really really bad!”

    In case you aren’t sure, Giant spends three hours repeatedly hammering this point home, over and over. Although, notably, it’s concerned with Mexicans only and the blacks in the film remain in properly subservient roles. I guess we pick and choose our lessons. By the end (it finally does end), Liz Taylor delivers the final speech, wherein she declares that by beating up some evil racists, Rock Hudson has finally become her hero.

    This was the norm in the mass media, 60 years ago. Consider how a major musical like South Pacific follows a similar trajectory. It was hardly groundbreaking even then, but we’re told nowadays that it never even happened.

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  123. Karl says:
    @Patrick Harris
    As Arab as anyone else in the Arabic-speaking world (with the possible exception of people on the actual Arabian peninsula). However, Lebanese nationalists like to deny that and say they're really Phoenecians.

    > like to deny that and say they’re really Phoenecians

    The actual Phoenicians spoke Canaanite proto-Hebrew. Arabic didn’t arrive till the AD 690′s.

    Judging by the Talmud’s complaints, the border between Tribe of Dan and Phoenicia was a little ==too== open for the comfort of the YHWH-cult priests in Jerusalem, who wanted ALL sacrifices & taxes to go to (surprise!) Jerusalem.

    If a Dan-ite boy marries a shiksa from Tyre because of her big bosoms, he’s probably gonna split his offerings between Jerusalem, and _her_ temple up there. Horrible. Way too intersectional.

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    • Replies: @nznnz
    When did levantines gain the j2b1a semitic haplogroup? Because there was a study out of Malta where Phoenicians settled and j2b1a was not present.
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  124. @Travis
    does Rita Hayworth (born Margarita Carmen Cansino) get any pokemon points for having 4 spanish grandparents ?

    what about Raquel Welsh ? born Jo Raquel Tejada , her father was Bolivian.

    Rita Hayworth is the one I thought of first. Check her out, if you haven’t, in The Lady from Shanghai and in Gilda. While filming the former, she was in the midst of her divorce from Orson Welles (the film’s producer-director-screenwriter-star) and in the latter, she delivers this unforgettable number (twice!), about Chicago and other things:

    Rita Hayworth definitely has authentic Latina cred:

    http://www.nytimes.com/1989/11/19/books/what-we-have-here-is-a-very-sad-story.html

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  125. Boomstick says:

    OT: anti-Trump crowd knocks out what looks like a religious counter-protestor at PDX airport. This will end badly.

    Not very good security at the airport.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Now officially Hollywood Approved: http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/30/hollywood-gives-standing-ovation-to-punching-political-foes-at-awards-show/
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  126. Curle says:

    Aren’t unattractive women, in this case Williams, always pushing some supposed distinctive characteristic of alleged high value that doesn’t involve beauty?

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Every movie leading lady is well above average in looks. Heck, character actresses are often knockouts.

    But Salma Hayek was in definite contention for hottest bitch on the planet, so she doesn't take well to some third tier starlet claiming the crown.
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  127. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Jefferson
    "If you aren`t familiar with the depths of Mexico`s blonde obsession, try watching Spanish-language TV shows. Almost all the women on Mexican TV look like Finns.” – Steve Sailer, May 2000"

    It's fake blonde hair dye, hence why it's only the women but not the men who have blond hair on Mexican television.

    I’m pretty sure they’ve got at least a few natural blondes working in Mexican TV. There was one on Sabado Gigante who looked Scandinavian.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "I’m pretty sure they’ve got at least a few natural blondes working in Mexican TV. There was one on Sabado Gigante who looked Scandinavian."

    I doubt it because the 2 main sources of Caucasoid immigration into Mexico is Spain and Lebanon, not exactly known for their adult natural blondeness.
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  128. keuril says:
    @Maj
    Pardon my heteronormativity, but is there a hotter 50 yr old on the planet than Ms. Hayek? No wonder poor Jessica Williams got so rustled.

    Salma Hayek looks awesome and Jessica Williams’ comment in her presence is a hilariously self-unaware example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Hayek is extremely well preserved for a white woman, but not quite as remarkable in comparison to the much larger field of similarly well preserved Asian women.

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    • Replies: @attilathehen
    Asian women (no matter how "well-preserved") are hideous compared to Caucasian/European women. It is "whiteness" that is the prize, not Asianess. Blacks and Asians don't count in the West and that includes Latin America.
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  129. syonredux says:
    @Svigor
    How come nobody ever recovers memories of past lives as dullards, or people who died rotting in dungeons, or lepers?

    Joseph Campbell once noted that every woman he had ever met who believed in reincarnation thought that she had been Nefertiti in a past life……

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  130. @Curle
    Aren't unattractive women, in this case Williams, always pushing some supposed distinctive characteristic of alleged high value that doesn't involve beauty?

    Every movie leading lady is well above average in looks. Heck, character actresses are often knockouts.

    But Salma Hayek was in definite contention for hottest bitch on the planet, so she doesn’t take well to some third tier starlet claiming the crown.

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    • Replies: @guest
    "Every leading movie lady is well above average in looks. Heck, character actresses are often knockouts"

    I'd say this was true in the Bad Old Days, when Hollywood went out of its way to cast feminine women. It becomes less and less true every year, as I've noticed actresses on average becoming more and more masculine and more and more like Tom Wolfe's "social x-rays." I blame this on the same you-know-whos in charge of High Fashion, though it's not as bad as in that field.

    They are well-groomed, well-appointed, not fat (though generally too skinny), with clear skin and no obvious signs of sickness. And there are a lot of flat-out ugly people in the world. So your well above average point is taken.

    Still, Salma Hayek, who has a stunning body, incredible breasts, and strikingly memorable features, also has an unfeminine, square jaw. She would not have been in the top tier of beauties back in the day. (Grace Kelly and Ava Gardner, for instance, had overly strong jawlines, as well. But they both easily blow Salma out of the water.)

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  131. Karl says:
    @Maj
    Pardon my heteronormativity, but is there a hotter 50 yr old on the planet than Ms. Hayek? No wonder poor Jessica Williams got so rustled.

    29. Maj > Pardon my heteronormativity, but is there a hotter 50 yr old on the planet than Ms.
    Hayek?

    yo, Maj….. if you had her plastic-surgery budget, you’d ALSO still have some of your looks left.

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  132. @The Anti-Gnostic
    I'm predicting some fallout from the Syrian conflict (which Bashar's Alawite-dominated regime appears to be winning) will be Syrians, Lebanese and Jordanians distancing themselves from "Arab."

    You can read about the history of Ba'athism and compare it to the modern tendency of Iberian Mexicans to appropriate aboriginal American identity, like iSteve's favorite calendar girl for Latino identity politics, Xochitl Hinojosa (on the left):

    http://www.mywedding.com/kevinlovesscarlett/images/28664_10100221108513640_7943127_60940858_5144828_n.jpg

    Here's a more recent pic:

    http://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2016_30/1639291/160726_amandarenteria_8a4442e4b92ceb0be3e52ad241c86dc8.nbcnews-ux-2880-1000.jpg

    Any way, Ba'athism comes across as being an earnest effort by smart, Orthodox Christian Marxists to forge a pan-Arabic identity. However, I think the Levantine Arab-speakers will come out of this as distinctly anti-Gulf Arab.

    The horrible thing about the Middle East is that the Ba’athist types always seem to lose.

    I knew a bunch of Ba’athists at Rice U. way back in the 1970s.

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  133. neoconned says:
    @Mr. Anon
    "Cora, who had been in the kitchen cooking lamb stew and halibut, wandered over to share that she grew up gay in Mississippi, where she was sexually abused from age 6."

    Sexual abuse seems to be a common denominator in the backgrounds of a lot of lesbians (and some male homosexuals as well).

    By the way, Cora was so marginalized that she was (as an out lesbian) an iron chef on the Cooking Channel.

    It’s sad Cora is a rug eater, she’s not half bad looking. Greek women age well.

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  134. @attilathehen
    Jeanine Pirro (Justice with Judge Jeanine Fox News) born 1951, Lebanese Catholic is not someone who met with any taunting at her Catholic schools. I went to white Catholic schools with white Hispanics and Lebanese Christians. They were very popular. Salma is just playing the "victim card" because she knows she's had white privilege her entire life. Mr. Sailer calls this "moving away from whiteness." She's just trying to build up street cred among the mestizo masses in the USA. She would never do this in Mexico.

    Back in 1982 I knew a Lebanese-American guy whose CEO dad had previously been on the cover of Fortune magazine.

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    • Replies: @slumber_j
    Son of Bob Abboud? Who was so oppressed he forced my father out of a job at First Chicago?

    The Lebanese are not a particularly disadvantaged people.
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  135. Olorin says:
    @Langley
    "And yet I, reading that discussion, have exactly zero idea what was actually being said. It reads like the transcript of an est session conducted in a school for the Developmentally Challenged."

    A bunch of goddesses were fighting over a golden apple with ti kallisti inscribed on it.

    We all know how that turned out.

    Yeah, a bunch of Robert Anton Wilson novels, and a Silicon Valley protoKek cult…a mere couple millennia later.

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  136. Yngvar says:

    «a Young Starlet»
    C’mon, be reasonable. She’s 27.

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  137. @syonredux

    “I’m from another generation, baby, when this was not even a possibility. My generation, they said, ‘Go back to Mexico. You’ll never be anything other than a maid in this country.’ By the head​s ​of studios!
     
    Of course, Salma, Mexico is not exactly well-known for color blind casting:

    Mestizo actors conspicuously absent from commercial ads in Mexico
     

    Light-skinned actors get the vast majority of roles in television commercials in Mexico, laying bare the racism that persists in this majority mestizo nation.

    "Commercials for consumer products require an aspirational profile, and that is white with light eyes, medium height and between 25 and 45 years old. The international Latino type," actor Rodrigo Franco, president of the National Interpreters Association, told EFE.

    The 51-year-old Franco, who is 1.56 meters (5-foot-1) in height and has "typical Mexican" features, said he had faced repeated discrimination in the advertising and acting worlds.

    He said that unfair treatment had included being asked by a director to furnish an acting degree at an audition for a part as a construction worker and being kicked off a set by a security guard who said he could not be part of the cast because of his appearance.

    Options for the "native Mexican" are restricted to commercials on government programs, which make up just 5 percent of television ads, Franco said.
     
    <blockquote>In August 2013, a casting call sparked outrage. Mexico's flagship air carrier, Aeromexico, said it was looking for actors and actresses for one of its commercials but specified that it wanted "nobody dark-skinned."
     http://www.efe.com/efe/english/life/mestizo-actors-conspicuously-absent-from-commercial-ads-in-mexico/50000263-3133515

    Did Salma leave Mexico because she was a brunette?

    I can’t remember if I read that.

    But Hollywood is probably more brunette-friendly than Mexico City’s TV and film industry.

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    • Replies: @snorlax
    IIRC it was Sofía Vergara and Colombia.
    , @snorlax
    But, in the very small chance that the maid comment actually happened, it was almost certainly in Mexico.
    , @syonredux

    Did Salma leave Mexico because she was a brunette?

    I can’t remember if I read that.

    But Hollywood is probably more brunette-friendly than Mexico City’s TV and film industry.
     
    I seem to recall reading something along those lines, too.

    And, yeah, I've heard anecdotes about how swarthy Latin American actresses have better opportunities in Hollywood than they do at home.
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  138. @syonredux

    Williams barely looked up. Still, the back-and-forth continued, with Hayek questioning whether or not she was considered a woman of color in Williams’ estimation. Nearly everyone in the room responded that Hayek was.
     
    Look, Salma, you've gotta understood that not all POC are created equal.......Black woman trumps (heh) Lebanese-Hispanic....

    “Baby, I’m Mexican and Arab,” she went on, addressing Williams.
     
    On the other hand, you've gotta appreciate how the old girl goes for the intersectional throat. Ten years ago, she would have just talked about being Mexican/Hispanic, but now she understands that that is not good enough.....Although, gotta say, current thinking (you know, in the Trumpenreich) prioritizes "Arabness"....So, maybe she should re-think her self- definition, make it "Arab and Mexican," not "Mexican and Arab." Don't want to bury the lede....

    “I’m from another generation, baby, when this was not even a possibility. My generation, they said, ‘Go back to Mexico. You’ll never be anything other than a maid in this country.’ By the head​s ​of studios! There was no movement. Latino women were not even anywhere near where you guys are. I was the first one. I’m 50 years old. So I understand.”

    “You don’t understand,” Williams said, shaking her head quietly.
     
    Salma, we all understand your pain. You've spoken so eloquently about your difficult childhood:

    "I thought I was a princess.I lived in a castle.and my father was a king.I wore tiaras.I was born divas-ish.When other kids were getting excited about toys, I would get excited about clothes."
     
    (Salma Hayek: Actress, Director, and Producer
    By Kerrily Sapet)


    And then there's your struggle with body-image:

    “I was getting tested a lot because everybody was older and I was the skinny tomboy… I went to a church that had a saint that was supposed to do a lot of miracles. I put my hands in holy waited and went: ‘Please Jesus give me some boobs.”
     
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/09/salma-hayek-boobs_n_1140150.html

    Thank you, Jesus.

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  139. Karl says:
    @Patrick Harris
    Because Phoenician culture, unlike Persian culture, has been dead for well over a millennia. Doubtless there is some ancestral component, but the Lebanese aren't notably less Arab than their neighbors (with the possible exception of Christian groups who intermarried with Frankish crusaders).

    49 Patrick Harris > Because Phoenician culture, unlike Persian culture, has been dead for
    well over a millennia

    “Cash is King” seems to have been their culture. I’d say that is alive and well.

    Now, let’s clarify – they were quite sophisticated. They ==did have== financial derivatives. Mr A paying money to Mr B for assuming Mr A’s contingent risk of a hazard actually becoming a peril – they had that.

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  140. nh says: • Website

    Aren’t white Latin Americans basically just pale skinned octoroon Indian mixes or castizos who are very pale skinned? I thought there was a study out of Brazil that self identified whites are closer to 80 percent or 75 percent European and 20 percent indian and 5 percent black, basically there aren’t any purely European people or 95 percent euopean people around in latin america anymore unless you count European expats.

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    • Replies: @attilathehen
    That's Brazil where 60% of the population is black (from light to dark skinned). Latin America is either mestizo (Indian) or mulatto (black). Brazil, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Panama, Columbia, Venezuela have large black populations. Mexico, Bolivia, Ecuador are largely Indian. For some bizarre reason, Brazil is always viewed as the model Latin nation. It is very segregated and this "5%" black is very rare. I've known many Latins and they are very aware of their family histories. Brazil is being pushed for propaganda purposes in the USA.
    , @Travis
    Good point, but most Latin Americans self identify as white which distorts the reality.
    Tom Brady's wife Gisele Bündchen likely is 95% European. The descendants of European immigrants, particularly the Germans, Italians and Poles, are mainly concentrated in the southern part of the country, in the states of Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina, Paraná, and the most populous, São Paulo; these states have a large majority of people of European descent

    50% of Mexicans self identify as white and most of them are a third Amerindian....but about 10% of Mexican whites are 90% European. Most of the migrants we get from Mexico are 50% Amerindian. The white ones are after wealthy and less likely to leave Mexico.
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  141. nznnz says: • Website
    @Karl
    > like to deny that and say they’re really Phoenecians

    The actual Phoenicians spoke Canaanite proto-Hebrew. Arabic didn't arrive till the AD 690's.

    Judging by the Talmud's complaints, the border between Tribe of Dan and Phoenicia was a little ==too== open for the comfort of the YHWH-cult priests in Jerusalem, who wanted ALL sacrifices & taxes to go to (surprise!) Jerusalem.

    If a Dan-ite boy marries a shiksa from Tyre because of her big bosoms, he's probably gonna split his offerings between Jerusalem, and _her_ temple up there. Horrible. Way too intersectional.

    When did levantines gain the j2b1a semitic haplogroup? Because there was a study out of Malta where Phoenicians settled and j2b1a was not present.

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  142. black sea says:
    @ATX Hipster
    I remember in high school when I realized that women really don't like each other, even (especially?) their friends.

    Feminism is less threatening than other forms of special interest worship because women will reliably turn on each other in a way that an ethnic group won't. Especially, as we see here, when the feminist agenda is in competition with an ethnic one.


    “Jessica, do you mind if I look at your eyes?”

    Williams barely looked up.
     

    This was probably the first time in Ms. Williams' life somebody challenged her claim to the victimhood throne.

    “On one issue, at least, men and women agree: they both distrust women.”

    ― H.L. Mencken

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  143. S Sailor says: • Website

    “it will come to blood” every 28 days.

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  144. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Boomstick
    OT: anti-Trump crowd knocks out what looks like a religious counter-protestor at PDX airport. This will end badly.

    Not very good security at the airport.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf008xA1x1Q
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  145. NickG says:

    This lot to me could just have well have been in Xhosa.

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  146. @Dave Pinsen
    Phoenicians were originally from Southern Europe but settled around the Mediterranean. So Lebanese could be up to ~26% Phoenician, I guess?

    I think you’re confusing the Phoenicians, a Semitic ethnicity, with the Philistines, who were a non-Semitic group that arrived in the Levant from (probably) either the Aegean or Anatolia.

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  147. “I remembered being a Muslim gypsy girl who had migrated from Morocco and was living with the Coptic Christians in the hills of Spain.”

    The Copts live in Egypt, not Spain. The Spanish Christians were called Mozarabic.

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    • Replies: @Logan
    True. Also the Gypsies didn't show up in eastern Europe till the 1300s and no doubt took a while to make it into Spain. The first records of their presence in Spain are from the mid-1400s.

    I'll bet anything Shirley had in mind a much earlier period.
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  148. Romanian says:
    @snorlax
    Yes, I would imagine that had a huge impact on those numbers. Is Lebanon really more Christian today than in the 80's?

    Apparently, the relative peace meant that some of the Christian refugees/emigres came back. But the diaspora is still huge and majority Christian and apparently there was some internal disagreement in the country regarding whether to give them the vote, which would give Christians an outsized say into internal matters. Plenty of Lebanese in my country as well. Very rich, too. I can tell that they’re mostly Christians because the women dress immodestly to say the least at community events, like the National Day of Lebanon. And they seem very patriotic in the civic sense.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Lebanon

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    • Replies: @Romanian
    My favorite hookah place keeps running Lebanese and Egyptian music videos.

    Check out this hot little number. She's Maronite. In the video, she's using her feminine wiles to sell watermelons to guys who look like they just arrived in Germany.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBBxGHvjNFM

    Also, Egyptian get out the vote song. Very catchy. Look at the peoples and places in the video. The sweet diversity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUBvVTNRp4Q

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  149. “Hayek confirmed her engagement to French billionaire and Kering CEO, François-Henri Pinault, as well as her pregnancy. She gave birth to daughter, Valentina Paloma Pinault, in September 2007 at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles, California.”

    Anchor babies for billionaires!

    The daughters of wealthy movie stars can walk hand in hand with the family of French billionaires . . .

    Free at last, free at last . . .

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  150. Romanian says:
    @Frau Katze
    Please enumerate your victim points and why you deserve them! ;-)

    We should make a thread like this!

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  151. Romanian says:
    @Romanian
    Apparently, the relative peace meant that some of the Christian refugees/emigres came back. But the diaspora is still huge and majority Christian and apparently there was some internal disagreement in the country regarding whether to give them the vote, which would give Christians an outsized say into internal matters. Plenty of Lebanese in my country as well. Very rich, too. I can tell that they're mostly Christians because the women dress immodestly to say the least at community events, like the National Day of Lebanon. And they seem very patriotic in the civic sense.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Lebanon

    My favorite hookah place keeps running Lebanese and Egyptian music videos.

    Check out this hot little number. She’s Maronite. In the video, she’s using her feminine wiles to sell watermelons to guys who look like they just arrived in Germany.

    Also, Egyptian get out the vote song. Very catchy. Look at the peoples and places in the video. The sweet diversity.

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  152. AP says:
    @Jefferson
    "Per these numbers Lebanese genetic composition is

    44% Arabia
    14% Jewish Diaspora
    11% Northern Africa
    10% Asia Minor
    5% Southern Europe
    2% Eastern Africa"

    So the Lebanese are a whopping 95 percent Non European and only 5 percent European. But according to many people here on The Unz the Lebanese are genetically 100 percent pure unmixed Europeans who do not have a single drop of MENA Arab Semite blood pumping through their hearts. The Lebanese are the epitome of European racial pureness according to many people here The Unz. Lebanon should be part of The European Union according to many people here on The Unz.

    1. These figures were for Lebanon as a whole, and not about each community within Lebanon. From a study described in National Geographic:

    “We noticed some interesting lineages in the dataset. Among Lebanese Christians, in particular, we found higher frequency of a genetic marker—R1b—that we typically see only in Western Europe,” said Spencer Wells, a National Geographic Explorer-in-Residence.

    The study matched the western European Y-chromosome lineage against thousands of people in France, Germany, Italy, and the United Kingdom. Wells said the lineage was seen enriched to a higher frequency only in the Christian populations in Lebanon and was not seen in the Muslim population.

    “It certainly doesn’t undermine the similarities among the various Lebanese communities, but it does agree with oral tradition—that some Lebanese Christians are descendants of Crusaders—and points to a genetic connection to the Crusaders,” he added.

    It’s only 2%, but it is not insignificant.

    2. Christianity is a central building block of European culture. Even though a Lebanese Christian is primary Arabic genetically, culturally he has much in common with Europeans.

    Read More
    • Replies: @snorlax
    Also, DNA of Jewish, North African and Anatolian origin = white. The present-day inhabitants of those territories might be mixed-race, but pre-Islamic conquest they were fully white.
    , @Jefferson
    "It’s only 2%, but it is not insignificant."

    2 percent is insignificant.

    "1. These figures were for Lebanon as a whole, and not about each community within Lebanon."

    And Lebanon as a whole are about as European as Palestinians.

    "2. Christianity is a central building block of European culture. Even though a Lebanese Christian is primary Arabic genetically, culturally he has much in common with Europeans."

    And Latin Americans being overwhelmingly Christians also have much culturally in common with Europeans as well. So open borders is a good thing because it means we get culturally European Christian immigrants from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras, etc.
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  153. @Richard of Melbourne
    When considering Hayek's carefully argued position on identity and privilege, two points really stand out.

    Ron, could you give us more than one measly LOL to use per post?

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  154. @Yak-15
    Female hens clucking for hierarchy along the most socially important constructs of liberalism. If Hillary had won, this would be reality. Glad we have Trump.

    If Hillary had won, this would be reality. Glad we have Trump.

    It does feel strange though to see these reminders of the old crazy nonsense at the same time that sanity is breaking out in Washington.

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  155. snorlax says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Did Salma leave Mexico because she was a brunette?

    I can't remember if I read that.

    But Hollywood is probably more brunette-friendly than Mexico City's TV and film industry.

    IIRC it was Sofía Vergara and Colombia.

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  156. AP says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    Phoenicians were originally from Southern Europe but settled around the Mediterranean. So Lebanese could be up to ~26% Phoenician, I guess?

    Phoenicians were Semites but were not Arabs. Lebanese Christians emphasize Lebanon’s Phoenician background to highlight that their distinction from Arabs.

    It is similar to how (Semitic) Chaldean Christians in Iraq emphasize their descent from Babylonians, rather than from the Arab invaders who swamped the territory where they live, and whom they look down on.

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  157. Wow, that was hard to get through.
    It read like a transcript from an episode of the View.
    A group of self percieved victims arguing about who is the biggest victim.
    Somehow being a victim in today’s world is a much sought after classification.
    The business of victim hood is probably a multi billion dollar industry. Now would be a time to invest, if possible.
    I would equate it to the drug and alcohol rehabilitation business. The rehab centers that seem very compationate in that they want to help people overcome their problems, but in reality the ones at the top see dollar signs in every alcoholic.
    But hey, it all helps the economy $$…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Formerly CARealist
    Is somebody going to explain "find the democracy inside" to me?

    My inner democracy has me sitting on the throne with no one else around. Maybe all theirs does too.
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  158. snorlax says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Did Salma leave Mexico because she was a brunette?

    I can't remember if I read that.

    But Hollywood is probably more brunette-friendly than Mexico City's TV and film industry.

    But, in the very small chance that the maid comment actually happened, it was almost certainly in Mexico.

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  159. CK says:
    @Days of Broken Arrows
    The end result of all of this is going to be more people such as me, who simply avoid movies and TV.

    The Internet offers more than enough stuff from before the world went insane that you can listen, watch, and read and still not have enough time for it all. There's old TV on YouTube, vintage radio at Archive.org, tons of old movies at various sites, scads of e-books being traded, and more old music og every genre than you could ever listen to.

    Last time I was in a theater was 2012. Before that 2003. Both times were for Grateful Dead movies.

    Any movie can be had “On Demand”, the only reasons to go to a movie theatre are expensive popcorn and that new movie smell. Being the first to watch costs you $15 renting later costs you $5. That’s $10 to buy gold or Maryjane as your taste demands.

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  160. slumber_j says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Back in 1982 I knew a Lebanese-American guy whose CEO dad had previously been on the cover of Fortune magazine.

    Son of Bob Abboud? Who was so oppressed he forced my father out of a job at First Chicago?

    The Lebanese are not a particularly disadvantaged people.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    You can take some vicarious revenge in pondering his brief tenure working for Armand Hammer at Oxy Pete. My uncle went with his boss for a year or so under Hammer. All he would say is that Armand Hammer isn't like they make him seem on TV.
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  161. snorlax says:
    @AP
    1. These figures were for Lebanon as a whole, and not about each community within Lebanon. From a study described in National Geographic:

    "We noticed some interesting lineages in the dataset. Among Lebanese Christians, in particular, we found higher frequency of a genetic marker—R1b—that we typically see only in Western Europe," said Spencer Wells, a National Geographic Explorer-in-Residence.

    The study matched the western European Y-chromosome lineage against thousands of people in France, Germany, Italy, and the United Kingdom. Wells said the lineage was seen enriched to a higher frequency only in the Christian populations in Lebanon and was not seen in the Muslim population.

    "It certainly doesn't undermine the similarities among the various Lebanese communities, but it does agree with oral tradition—that some Lebanese Christians are descendants of Crusaders—and points to a genetic connection to the Crusaders," he added.

     

    It's only 2%, but it is not insignificant.

    2. Christianity is a central building block of European culture. Even though a Lebanese Christian is primary Arabic genetically, culturally he has much in common with Europeans.

    Also, DNA of Jewish, North African and Anatolian origin = white. The present-day inhabitants of those territories might be mixed-race, but pre-Islamic conquest they were fully white.

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  162. donut says:
    @candid_observer

    But it was clear to all that despite the moments of palpable discomfort, an important discussion had just occurred.
     
    And yet I, reading that discussion, have exactly zero idea what was actually being said. It reads like the transcript of an est session conducted in a school for the Developmentally Challenged.

    This I think was the essence of the conversation :

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  163. Jacobite says:

    Salma Hayek of course! Uh, what was the question?

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  164. AP says:

    Having known people from all these groups, I would classify Lebanese Christians, Chaldeans from Iraq, Greeks, Armenians and Georgians together. They all have more in common with each other than with outside groups, with Latin people somewhat overlapping these ones.

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  165. There’s an article today at INSIDE HIGHER ED about another battle over intersectional Pokemon points.

    Rift in Women’s Studies Over Transgender Issues
    Popular online discussion group sees resignations and call for boycott over comments some see as bigotry toward trans scholars.

    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/01/30/rift-womens-studies-over-listserv-comments-transgender-issues

    If you want to comment there, be aware that the comment moderation can be heavy-handed, so make your trolling at least a bit subtle.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Calvin X Hobbes
    Here's a rejected comment on the trans fuss that I tried to post at INSIDE HIGHER ED:

    As our world becomes more and more crazy, Monty Python becomes increasingly relevant.

    Monty Python's The life of Brian - I want to be a woman

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBOQzSk14c
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  166. res says:
    @Svigor
    How come nobody ever recovers memories of past lives as dullards, or people who died rotting in dungeons, or lepers?

    Now there’s a mystery. One could make an argument that dramatic powerful lives make for more powerful and easily recoverable memories, but I rather doubt that is what is happening.

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  167. @keuril
    Salma Hayek looks awesome and Jessica Williams' comment in her presence is a hilariously self-unaware example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Hayek is extremely well preserved for a white woman, but not quite as remarkable in comparison to the much larger field of similarly well preserved Asian women.

    Asian women (no matter how “well-preserved”) are hideous compared to Caucasian/European women. It is “whiteness” that is the prize, not Asianess. Blacks and Asians don’t count in the West and that includes Latin America.

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  168. @nh
    Aren't white Latin Americans basically just pale skinned octoroon Indian mixes or castizos who are very pale skinned? I thought there was a study out of Brazil that self identified whites are closer to 80 percent or 75 percent European and 20 percent indian and 5 percent black, basically there aren't any purely European people or 95 percent euopean people around in latin america anymore unless you count European expats.

    That’s Brazil where 60% of the population is black (from light to dark skinned). Latin America is either mestizo (Indian) or mulatto (black). Brazil, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Panama, Columbia, Venezuela have large black populations. Mexico, Bolivia, Ecuador are largely Indian. For some bizarre reason, Brazil is always viewed as the model Latin nation. It is very segregated and this “5%” black is very rare. I’ve known many Latins and they are very aware of their family histories. Brazil is being pushed for propaganda purposes in the USA.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "That’s Brazil where 60% of the population is black"

    No it's not. Do you have any studies to back up your claim that the average Brazilian is genetically of predominantly Sub Saharan African ancestry like other New World groups like African Americans, Jamaicans, and Haitians?

    The average Brazilian is an Octoroon. The "Blackest" region of Brazil which is the Northeast, the average Brazilian is a Quadroon.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_Brazil

    If Brazilians on average were a predominantly Sub Saharan African people their human development index would be similar to that of other Sub Saharan African countries.

    Brazil has a higher human development index than some Eastern European and Balkan countries.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop

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  169. Speaking of diversity Pokémon points, after watching the trailers that came before La La Land, I have to ask: Is Octavia Spenser the new, improved Morgan Freeman (“now with bonus diversity Pokémon points!”) ?

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  170. guest says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Every movie leading lady is well above average in looks. Heck, character actresses are often knockouts.

    But Salma Hayek was in definite contention for hottest bitch on the planet, so she doesn't take well to some third tier starlet claiming the crown.

    “Every leading movie lady is well above average in looks. Heck, character actresses are often knockouts”

    I’d say this was true in the Bad Old Days, when Hollywood went out of its way to cast feminine women. It becomes less and less true every year, as I’ve noticed actresses on average becoming more and more masculine and more and more like Tom Wolfe’s “social x-rays.” I blame this on the same you-know-whos in charge of High Fashion, though it’s not as bad as in that field.

    They are well-groomed, well-appointed, not fat (though generally too skinny), with clear skin and no obvious signs of sickness. And there are a lot of flat-out ugly people in the world. So your well above average point is taken.

    Still, Salma Hayek, who has a stunning body, incredible breasts, and strikingly memorable features, also has an unfeminine, square jaw. She would not have been in the top tier of beauties back in the day. (Grace Kelly and Ava Gardner, for instance, had overly strong jawlines, as well. But they both easily blow Salma out of the water.)

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Still, Salma Hayek, who has a stunning body, incredible breasts, and strikingly memorable features, also has an unfeminine, square jaw. She would not have been in the top tier of beauties back in the day. (Grace Kelly and Ava Gardner, for instance, had overly strong jawlines, as well. But they both easily blow Salma out of the water.)
     
    Comparing Salma to Grace Kelly and Ava Gardner is pretty unfair. Talk about a high bar!


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQc_FmiBjIU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XKd4FHkFFY
    , @Jim Don Bob
    I dunno, man. Salma could blow me out of the water or anything else she wanted. Never noticed her jaw.
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  171. @Mr Mack Bolan
    Wow, that was hard to get through.
    It read like a transcript from an episode of the View.
    A group of self percieved victims arguing about who is the biggest victim.
    Somehow being a victim in today's world is a much sought after classification.
    The business of victim hood is probably a multi billion dollar industry. Now would be a time to invest, if possible.
    I would equate it to the drug and alcohol rehabilitation business. The rehab centers that seem very compationate in that they want to help people overcome their problems, but in reality the ones at the top see dollar signs in every alcoholic.
    But hey, it all helps the economy $$…

    Is somebody going to explain “find the democracy inside” to me?

    My inner democracy has me sitting on the throne with no one else around. Maybe all theirs does too.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    Democracy is found in your Q Zone, right next to the flammerstam. If you hit the codswallop you've gone too far.

    Had mine removed with a laparectomy shortly after joining the Dark Enlightenment.

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  172. Boomstick says:

    Were they? Is there any data on the subject, for example researchers running DNA tests on human remains from the pre-Islamic era?

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  173. @Calvin X Hobbes
    There's an article today at INSIDE HIGHER ED about another battle over intersectional Pokemon points.

    Rift in Women’s Studies Over Transgender Issues
    Popular online discussion group sees resignations and call for boycott over comments some see as bigotry toward trans scholars.

    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/01/30/rift-womens-studies-over-listserv-comments-transgender-issues

    If you want to comment there, be aware that the comment moderation can be heavy-handed, so make your trolling at least a bit subtle.

    Here’s a rejected comment on the trans fuss that I tried to post at INSIDE HIGHER ED:

    As our world becomes more and more crazy, Monty Python becomes increasingly relevant.

    Monty Python’s The life of Brian – I want to be a woman

    Read More
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  174. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @attilathehen
    Jeanine Pirro (Justice with Judge Jeanine Fox News) born 1951, Lebanese Catholic is not someone who met with any taunting at her Catholic schools. I went to white Catholic schools with white Hispanics and Lebanese Christians. They were very popular. Salma is just playing the "victim card" because she knows she's had white privilege her entire life. Mr. Sailer calls this "moving away from whiteness." She's just trying to build up street cred among the mestizo masses in the USA. She would never do this in Mexico.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanine_Pirro#Early_life

    Pirro was born in Elmira, New York, to Nasser “Leo” and Esther (née Awad) Ferris. Her father was a mobile-home salesman; her mother was a department-store model. Both her parents are first-generation Lebanese Americans.[4] Pirro says she was taunted for being Middle-Eastern growing up, with other kids calling her ‘Camel Jockey’ and ‘Fat Lips’.[4]

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    • Replies: @attilathehen
    This is a new entry to her Wiki. I've followed her for a couple of years (I like her show) and she never spoke about this. A variation on Salma's "horrible" experiences. Also, she's from New York state and there have been Christian Arabs in the state for several generations. Maybe she's looking for some street cred too.
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  175. Sean says:


    I don’t want to know your name
    ‘Cause you don’t look the same
    The way you did before
    OK you think you got a pretty face
    But the rest of you is out of place
    You looked all right before

    What is it about Lebanese women that makes them get such insanely massive breast implants,

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  176. fitzGetty says:
    @candid_observer

    But it was clear to all that despite the moments of palpable discomfort, an important discussion had just occurred.
     
    And yet I, reading that discussion, have exactly zero idea what was actually being said. It reads like the transcript of an est session conducted in a school for the Developmentally Challenged.

    The apes atop Gibraltar gibber more coherently.

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  177. Forbes says:
    @syonredux
    SJW Lumpengentsia weighs in:

    I also want to applaud the LA Times‘ reporter, Amy Kaufman, for including descriptions of Williams’ physicality. The discomfort, the helplessness, the moments taken for self-control…I think most of us have participated in or been present during conversations about privilege like this, and Kaufman captured exactly how punishing that emotional labor can be. It’s exhausting to argue a point while also policing your tone and body language so as not to offend the other person’s fragility. It’s painful to try and frame your point in the most palatable, rather than the most powerful, way. Including Williams’ quotes without that context would have erased that labor, and it’s important for people to see.
     

    I can't articulate my thoughts on this all right now because that was a real anger inducing read, but I thought Hayek's unbearably condescending tone and pointed calling of Williams as "baby" over and over was pretty gross and clearly added a huge amount of unnecessary discomfort to the entire room. She went in very aggressively without being willing to allow Williams to clarify.
     

    Yeah, I read the transcript of what happened the other day and it was truly painful to read. I was more than a little shocked at Salma's behvior. This was not a healthy discussion, this was a scolding lecture with one older woman talking down to another. And from what I can gather from this mess of words it was the same old, same old: "All women", "why dwell on your race","Anger isn't helpful". I really do not care that Salma is a WoC too (though I will defend her from those that insist on white washing her because of her melanin) WoC have been guilty of shutting down other WoC as well.
    And you can bet I'm side eyeing Cora What's-Her-Face and Shirley Maclaine as well
     

    Yeah, Salma is on my s**t list after her extremely tone deaf and condescending remarks. I guess being married to a billionaire cloaks her in plenty of privilege
     

    There's def some class privilege going on here. And values dissonance; as someone who is older, been reared in the traditions of the second wave and been a part of the inner circle of Hollywood for a long time, Salma must have a big disconnect with what's going on. I'm wondering what a younger Latina woman like America Ferrara would have said in her place. Probably something a lot different I'd imagine.
     

    At the beginning of that statement above, in the very act of launching the inquiry, Jessica took time to include ME, as a trans woman. She didn't have to, but she did.

    When you're fighting to have your own identity recognized and understood, and you take a moment to include a group that you're not even part of...

    On the off chance you ever see this, Jessica: you rock. You rock HARD. I wanna be like you when I grow up.

     

    http://www.themarysue.com/jessica-williams-women-in-film/

    Those are some headache inducing comments…

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  178. Travis says:
    @nh
    Aren't white Latin Americans basically just pale skinned octoroon Indian mixes or castizos who are very pale skinned? I thought there was a study out of Brazil that self identified whites are closer to 80 percent or 75 percent European and 20 percent indian and 5 percent black, basically there aren't any purely European people or 95 percent euopean people around in latin america anymore unless you count European expats.

    Good point, but most Latin Americans self identify as white which distorts the reality.
    Tom Brady’s wife Gisele Bündchen likely is 95% European. The descendants of European immigrants, particularly the Germans, Italians and Poles, are mainly concentrated in the southern part of the country, in the states of Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina, Paraná, and the most populous, São Paulo; these states have a large majority of people of European descent

    50% of Mexicans self identify as white and most of them are a third Amerindian….but about 10% of Mexican whites are 90% European. Most of the migrants we get from Mexico are 50% Amerindian. The white ones are after wealthy and less likely to leave Mexico.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Tom Brady’s wife Gisele Bündchen likely is 95% European."

    Gisele Bundchen is 100 percent European because her ancestors immigrated to Brazil in the 20th Century to a small racially segregated German speaking community in Rio Grande Do Sul that very few to no Blacks and Browns.
    , @bsb
    Well considering how often Turkics and Turanids could pass for full blooded Europeans I definitely think that self identified whites in Latin American should be presumed to be light skinned octoroons or castizos unless proven otherwise through a DNA test, since ancestral records can be fudged as well.
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  179. Forbes says:
    @IBC

    My generation, they said, ‘Go back to Mexico. You’ll never be anything other than a maid in this country.’ By the head​s ​of studios!
     
    And now that she's famous, what's stopping her from naming and shaming the actual people involved? Isn't she letting down the team by not giving specifics? Otherwise, it doesn't sound very credible given her appearance and background.

    Or maybe she did actually hear something like that when her agent once made a sarcastic remark or in a drunken message from some entitled studio honcho after spurning his advances. That's a lot more likely. She should admit how fortunate she's been, even before she hit the big time.

    And Baabdat is apparently a Phalangist town:

    http://gulfnews.com/news/mena/lebanon/phalange-wins-big-in-lebanon-polls-amid-christian-party-face-off-1.1828544

    Hayek should cut her losses and re-cast herself as a Phoenician-American. She could then claim victim status amongst all the Persians in Beverly Hills.

    Since when do studio heads deal with wanna-be actresses, except to bed them… Why would they even bother to give such advice?

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  180. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @attilathehen
    Jeanine Pirro (Justice with Judge Jeanine Fox News) born 1951, Lebanese Catholic is not someone who met with any taunting at her Catholic schools. I went to white Catholic schools with white Hispanics and Lebanese Christians. They were very popular. Salma is just playing the "victim card" because she knows she's had white privilege her entire life. Mr. Sailer calls this "moving away from whiteness." She's just trying to build up street cred among the mestizo masses in the USA. She would never do this in Mexico.

    I get Steve’s shtick here. It’s not completely wrong, but it’s not completely right either. It’s sort of his version of retconning history. It’s obviously not as egregious and wrong as the left’s attempts to retcon history, but it still distorts the actual history to a degree. Like the left’s retconning, it’s for a political purpose, although again, it’s obviously not as bad as the left’s political purpose. The purpose is to manufacture solidarity and suggest that everything was actually hunky-dory and harmonious in the past, so everything should be harmonious today. It’s an understandable and noble purpose, but it’s not necessarily accurate.

    For example, his account of Jews and country clubs in the 20th century emphasizes intra-Jewish exclusion and serves to suggest that Jewish exclusion was somehow in reality miniscule or negligible.This is understandable since Jews today draw on this experience to justify leftist politics, but that doesn’t mean it’s accurate.

    The examples of privileged Mexicans and Lebanese are in the same vein. The fact that they were wealthy and privileged did not mean that they weren’t bullied and disparaged or perceived differently by kids and young people in school in mid century America. The white Hispanic type kids and the Lebanese Catholics we had in school were likely wealthier and more privileged than the rest of the student body, but the kids didn’t care and they were still teased and bullied. My local county little league growing up, whose teams were sponsored by local civic organizations like the Kiwanis club, did not let Catholic kids to join, even though the league wasn’t religious. It’s not implausible at all that Hayek would have been teased and treated differently for her exotic background and appearance in many parts of the country decades ago, despite her wealthy and privileged background.

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    • Replies: @attilathehen
    Good points. But I think in her case, she's looking for street cred. People get teased and bullied for so many things regardless of race and religion. I'm not saying it's good, but the way she makes it sound you would think the KKK was after her. This further fuels identity politics and causes the "KKKrazy Glue" nonsense going on today. Jeb Bush used to talk about "prejudice" regarding his Mexican wife and children. Bush was also looking for street cred. If Trump had not jumped into the GOP race, Jeb would have gotten the nomination - from mostly white people. This is what I find most disturbing. These Caucasian people claim all these horrible experiences but support immigration policies of non-white, non-Christian peoples who in the end will be a threat to them - blacks, Muslims, Asians, Indian/mestizos.
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  181. “…encourage all of the women in the room to pay special attention to women of color and LGBT women.”

    A naked request for privilege.

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  182. @Hhsiii
    [some lesbian chef]


    Classic.

    Hmm, Hayek was the first? Maria Conchita Alonso is 9 years older and I bet thinks Hayek's breasts robbed her of a few parts.

    And Katy Jurado and Carmen miranda were a million years ago:

    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-iQqs4UL92ME/TWwObx69M7I/AAAAAAAAAOE/BLpVOOPFfSs/s1600/Grace+Kelly%252C+Katy+Jurado+dans+Le+Train+sifflera+trois+fois.jpeg

    Remember Charo ,the coochie coochie girl. LOL.

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  183. Logan says:

    Rita Hayworth?

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  184. Logan says:
    @For what it's worth
    “I remembered being a Muslim gypsy girl who had migrated from Morocco and was living with the Coptic Christians in the hills of Spain.”

    The Copts live in Egypt, not Spain. The Spanish Christians were called Mozarabic.

    True. Also the Gypsies didn’t show up in eastern Europe till the 1300s and no doubt took a while to make it into Spain. The first records of their presence in Spain are from the mid-1400s.

    I’ll bet anything Shirley had in mind a much earlier period.

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  185. Logan says:
    @Travis
    does Rita Hayworth (born Margarita Carmen Cansino) get any pokemon points for having 4 spanish grandparents ?

    what about Raquel Welsh ? born Jo Raquel Tejada , her father was Bolivian.

    Actually, Rita’s father was Spanish, but her mother was Irish-English American.

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    • Replies: @Travis
    so she loses half her pokemon points
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  186. @Jefferson
    "If you aren`t familiar with the depths of Mexico`s blonde obsession, try watching Spanish-language TV shows. Almost all the women on Mexican TV look like Finns.” – Steve Sailer, May 2000"

    It's fake blonde hair dye, hence why it's only the women but not the men who have blond hair on Mexican television.

    That’s right and twenty-five years ago it would be provable by a “lay person” as the collars and the cuffs wouldn’t match on 90+ per cent of the Mexican (and Venezuelan and Colombian) soap actrices. Nowadays, collars are getting a little scarce, so proof might be a little more involved.

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    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    Or did I mean to say that cuffs are getting a little scarce? My bad.
    , @Jefferson
    "That’s right and twenty-five years ago it would be provable by a “lay person” as the collars and the cuffs wouldn’t match on 90+ per cent of the Mexican (and Venezuelan and Colombian) soap actrices. Nowadays, collars are getting a little scarce, so proof might be a little more involved."

    Female Hispanic brunettes love appropriating Nordic Aryan culture by dying their hair either blonde or a lighter shade of brown. That picture that Steve Sailer put up of Salma Hayek with light brown hair is not her natural hair color. Salma Hayek's natural hair color is black. Even as a baby Salma Hayek had black hair.
    https://bossip.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/celebrity-baby-pictures-salma-hayek-300x300.jpg

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  187. SPMoore8 says:
    @attilathehen
    Jeanine Pirro (Justice with Judge Jeanine Fox News) born 1951, Lebanese Catholic is not someone who met with any taunting at her Catholic schools. I went to white Catholic schools with white Hispanics and Lebanese Christians. They were very popular. Salma is just playing the "victim card" because she knows she's had white privilege her entire life. Mr. Sailer calls this "moving away from whiteness." She's just trying to build up street cred among the mestizo masses in the USA. She would never do this in Mexico.

    Salma’s career has been in a decline ever since she did the pole dance thing in Dogma. Age, lack of height, lack of mastery of English: these things add up over time. So then you start looking for other ways to be relevant. She has my sincere best wishes.

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    • Replies: @attilathehen
    Good points. She lucked out marrying the billionaire. She'll have enough money to stay in the spotlight until she decides to retire.
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  188. @Jim Bob Lassiter
    That's right and twenty-five years ago it would be provable by a "lay person" as the collars and the cuffs wouldn't match on 90+ per cent of the Mexican (and Venezuelan and Colombian) soap actrices. Nowadays, collars are getting a little scarce, so proof might be a little more involved.

    Or did I mean to say that cuffs are getting a little scarce? My bad.

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  189. @SPMoore8
    Salma's career has been in a decline ever since she did the pole dance thing in Dogma. Age, lack of height, lack of mastery of English: these things add up over time. So then you start looking for other ways to be relevant. She has my sincere best wishes.

    Good points. She lucked out marrying the billionaire. She’ll have enough money to stay in the spotlight until she decides to retire.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I'm not sure luck had all that much to do with it. It sounds like Salma outmaneuvered supermodel Linda Evangelista in competition for the French billionaire. It's a little like saying Tom Brady lucked out in marrying his spouse.
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  190. @Anonymous
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanine_Pirro#Early_life

    Pirro was born in Elmira, New York, to Nasser "Leo" and Esther (née Awad) Ferris. Her father was a mobile-home salesman; her mother was a department-store model. Both her parents are first-generation Lebanese Americans.[4] Pirro says she was taunted for being Middle-Eastern growing up, with other kids calling her 'Camel Jockey' and 'Fat Lips'.[4]
     

    This is a new entry to her Wiki. I’ve followed her for a couple of years (I like her show) and she never spoke about this. A variation on Salma’s “horrible” experiences. Also, she’s from New York state and there have been Christian Arabs in the state for several generations. Maybe she’s looking for some street cred too.

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  191. Jefferson says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    I'm pretty sure they've got at least a few natural blondes working in Mexican TV. There was one on Sabado Gigante who looked Scandinavian.

    “I’m pretty sure they’ve got at least a few natural blondes working in Mexican TV. There was one on Sabado Gigante who looked Scandinavian.”

    I doubt it because the 2 main sources of Caucasoid immigration into Mexico is Spain and Lebanon, not exactly known for their adult natural blondeness.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    You doubt that there are a handful of natural blondes in all of Mexico, despite a non-trivial amount of German immigration to the country? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Mexicans

    Okay. You are quite the absolutist.
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  192. Travis says:
    @Logan
    Actually, Rita's father was Spanish, but her mother was Irish-English American.

    so she loses half her pokemon points

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  193. @Anonymous
    I get Steve's shtick here. It's not completely wrong, but it's not completely right either. It's sort of his version of retconning history. It's obviously not as egregious and wrong as the left's attempts to retcon history, but it still distorts the actual history to a degree. Like the left's retconning, it's for a political purpose, although again, it's obviously not as bad as the left's political purpose. The purpose is to manufacture solidarity and suggest that everything was actually hunky-dory and harmonious in the past, so everything should be harmonious today. It's an understandable and noble purpose, but it's not necessarily accurate.

    For example, his account of Jews and country clubs in the 20th century emphasizes intra-Jewish exclusion and serves to suggest that Jewish exclusion was somehow in reality miniscule or negligible.This is understandable since Jews today draw on this experience to justify leftist politics, but that doesn't mean it's accurate.

    The examples of privileged Mexicans and Lebanese are in the same vein. The fact that they were wealthy and privileged did not mean that they weren't bullied and disparaged or perceived differently by kids and young people in school in mid century America. The white Hispanic type kids and the Lebanese Catholics we had in school were likely wealthier and more privileged than the rest of the student body, but the kids didn't care and they were still teased and bullied. My local county little league growing up, whose teams were sponsored by local civic organizations like the Kiwanis club, did not let Catholic kids to join, even though the league wasn't religious. It's not implausible at all that Hayek would have been teased and treated differently for her exotic background and appearance in many parts of the country decades ago, despite her wealthy and privileged background.

    Good points. But I think in her case, she’s looking for street cred. People get teased and bullied for so many things regardless of race and religion. I’m not saying it’s good, but the way she makes it sound you would think the KKK was after her. This further fuels identity politics and causes the “KKKrazy Glue” nonsense going on today. Jeb Bush used to talk about “prejudice” regarding his Mexican wife and children. Bush was also looking for street cred. If Trump had not jumped into the GOP race, Jeb would have gotten the nomination – from mostly white people. This is what I find most disturbing. These Caucasian people claim all these horrible experiences but support immigration policies of non-white, non-Christian peoples who in the end will be a threat to them – blacks, Muslims, Asians, Indian/mestizos.

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  194. @attilathehen
    Good points. She lucked out marrying the billionaire. She'll have enough money to stay in the spotlight until she decides to retire.

    I’m not sure luck had all that much to do with it. It sounds like Salma outmaneuvered supermodel Linda Evangelista in competition for the French billionaire. It’s a little like saying Tom Brady lucked out in marrying his spouse.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    I’m not sure luck had all that much to do with it. It sounds like Salma outmaneuvered supermodel Linda Evangelista in competition for the French billionaire. It’s a little like saying Tom Brady lucked out in marrying his spouse.
     
    Trump would have gone for the 5'9 Evangelista over the 5'2 Salma....

    Another reason to vote Trump: his private life shows that he believes in eugenics...

    , @attilathehen
    OK, I'll go along with "outmaneuvered." But have you seen Linda lately? She did not age well. Being a model when you're young is one thing. Most people look OK when they're young. But it's the "after 50" where you really see the deviation. Linda may have beat Salma by 7 inches in height, but right now, Salma's got Linda beat in terms of "aging well." Pinault is rich and could get another woman if he wanted. But for now he seems happy with having chosen Salma. And from what I've read, Salma really wants to make her husband and child happy. Linda's background was also a bit more "sketchy."
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  195. Jefferson says:
    @AP
    1. These figures were for Lebanon as a whole, and not about each community within Lebanon. From a study described in National Geographic:

    "We noticed some interesting lineages in the dataset. Among Lebanese Christians, in particular, we found higher frequency of a genetic marker—R1b—that we typically see only in Western Europe," said Spencer Wells, a National Geographic Explorer-in-Residence.

    The study matched the western European Y-chromosome lineage against thousands of people in France, Germany, Italy, and the United Kingdom. Wells said the lineage was seen enriched to a higher frequency only in the Christian populations in Lebanon and was not seen in the Muslim population.

    "It certainly doesn't undermine the similarities among the various Lebanese communities, but it does agree with oral tradition—that some Lebanese Christians are descendants of Crusaders—and points to a genetic connection to the Crusaders," he added.

     

    It's only 2%, but it is not insignificant.

    2. Christianity is a central building block of European culture. Even though a Lebanese Christian is primary Arabic genetically, culturally he has much in common with Europeans.

    “It’s only 2%, but it is not insignificant.”

    2 percent is insignificant.

    “1. These figures were for Lebanon as a whole, and not about each community within Lebanon.”

    And Lebanon as a whole are about as European as Palestinians.

    “2. Christianity is a central building block of European culture. Even though a Lebanese Christian is primary Arabic genetically, culturally he has much in common with Europeans.”

    And Latin Americans being overwhelmingly Christians also have much culturally in common with Europeans as well. So open borders is a good thing because it means we get culturally European Christian immigrants from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras, etc.

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    • Replies: @AP

    “It’s only 2%, but it is not insignificant.”

    2 percent is insignificant.
     
    The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.

    Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.

    “2. Christianity is a central building block of European culture. Even though a Lebanese Christian is primary Arabic genetically, culturally he has much in common with Europeans.”

    And Latin Americans being overwhelmingly Christians also have much culturally in common with Europeans as well.
     
    The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to "Euroepanness."

    Also, reviewing the percentages, "10% Asia Minor" probably means Indo-European - like Kurds or Armenians, indigenous people to Asia minor.
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  196. syonredux says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Did Salma leave Mexico because she was a brunette?

    I can't remember if I read that.

    But Hollywood is probably more brunette-friendly than Mexico City's TV and film industry.

    Did Salma leave Mexico because she was a brunette?

    I can’t remember if I read that.

    But Hollywood is probably more brunette-friendly than Mexico City’s TV and film industry.

    I seem to recall reading something along those lines, too.

    And, yeah, I’ve heard anecdotes about how swarthy Latin American actresses have better opportunities in Hollywood than they do at home.

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  197. syonredux says:
    @Steve Sailer
    I'm not sure luck had all that much to do with it. It sounds like Salma outmaneuvered supermodel Linda Evangelista in competition for the French billionaire. It's a little like saying Tom Brady lucked out in marrying his spouse.

    I’m not sure luck had all that much to do with it. It sounds like Salma outmaneuvered supermodel Linda Evangelista in competition for the French billionaire. It’s a little like saying Tom Brady lucked out in marrying his spouse.

    Trump would have gone for the 5’9 Evangelista over the 5’2 Salma….

    Another reason to vote Trump: his private life shows that he believes in eugenics…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    A man who would go for Linda Evangelista over Salma Hayek is a man who is not 100 percent heterosexual.
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  198. Jefferson says:
    @Jim Bob Lassiter
    That's right and twenty-five years ago it would be provable by a "lay person" as the collars and the cuffs wouldn't match on 90+ per cent of the Mexican (and Venezuelan and Colombian) soap actrices. Nowadays, collars are getting a little scarce, so proof might be a little more involved.

    “That’s right and twenty-five years ago it would be provable by a “lay person” as the collars and the cuffs wouldn’t match on 90+ per cent of the Mexican (and Venezuelan and Colombian) soap actrices. Nowadays, collars are getting a little scarce, so proof might be a little more involved.”

    Female Hispanic brunettes love appropriating Nordic Aryan culture by dying their hair either blonde or a lighter shade of brown. That picture that Steve Sailer put up of Salma Hayek with light brown hair is not her natural hair color. Salma Hayek’s natural hair color is black. Even as a baby Salma Hayek had black hair.

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  199. anon says: • Disclaimer

    PC is anti-white so you get more points the least white, male and straight you are

    straight white PC women are okay with black women having the top spot (as long as it doesn’t stop them getting their share of the well-paid PC jobs) but the other 57 varieties of “women of color” are competing – or at least they won’t accept as big a gap in the rankings as black women have with white

    the black woman is basically saying goddam mexicans and arabs are only 3/5 black

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  200. Jefferson says:
    @Travis
    Good point, but most Latin Americans self identify as white which distorts the reality.
    Tom Brady's wife Gisele Bündchen likely is 95% European. The descendants of European immigrants, particularly the Germans, Italians and Poles, are mainly concentrated in the southern part of the country, in the states of Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina, Paraná, and the most populous, São Paulo; these states have a large majority of people of European descent

    50% of Mexicans self identify as white and most of them are a third Amerindian....but about 10% of Mexican whites are 90% European. Most of the migrants we get from Mexico are 50% Amerindian. The white ones are after wealthy and less likely to leave Mexico.

    “Tom Brady’s wife Gisele Bündchen likely is 95% European.”

    Gisele Bundchen is 100 percent European because her ancestors immigrated to Brazil in the 20th Century to a small racially segregated German speaking community in Rio Grande Do Sul that very few to no Blacks and Browns.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    “Tom Brady’s wife Gisele Bündchen likely is 95% European.”

    Gisele Bundchen is 100 percent European because her ancestors immigrated to Brazil in the 20th Century to a small racially segregated German speaking community in Rio Grande Do Sul that very few to no Blacks and Browns.
     
    Indeed. Her ancestry is completely German:

    Her parents, Vânia Maria Nonnenmacher and Valdir Reinoldo Bündchen, are both of German ancestry. Bundchen was born and raised in Horizontina, a southern region in Brazil, where there is a large ethnic German community. She is a sixth-generation German Brazilian, with some ancestry in Rhineland-Palatinate and Baden-Württemberg.
     

    Gisele’s paternal grandparents were Walter Bündchen (the son of Hermann Bündchen and Wilhelmine Pauline Bühler) and Lucila Luckemeyer. Hermann was the son of Heinrich Bündchen and Maria Margaretha Laux. Wilhelmine was the daughter of Friedrich Wilhelm Buhler, whose parents were German, and Maria Müller, who was also of German descent.

    Gisele’s maternal grandparents were João Theobaldo Nonnenmacher and Maria Kolling (the daughter of Francisco Antônio Kolling and Maria Bohn). Gisele’s great-grandmother Maria Bohn was the daughter of Bernardo Bohn and Maria Dresch, who were born in Germany.
     
    http://ethnicelebs.com/gisele-bundchen
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  201. syonredux says:
    @guest
    "Every leading movie lady is well above average in looks. Heck, character actresses are often knockouts"

    I'd say this was true in the Bad Old Days, when Hollywood went out of its way to cast feminine women. It becomes less and less true every year, as I've noticed actresses on average becoming more and more masculine and more and more like Tom Wolfe's "social x-rays." I blame this on the same you-know-whos in charge of High Fashion, though it's not as bad as in that field.

    They are well-groomed, well-appointed, not fat (though generally too skinny), with clear skin and no obvious signs of sickness. And there are a lot of flat-out ugly people in the world. So your well above average point is taken.

    Still, Salma Hayek, who has a stunning body, incredible breasts, and strikingly memorable features, also has an unfeminine, square jaw. She would not have been in the top tier of beauties back in the day. (Grace Kelly and Ava Gardner, for instance, had overly strong jawlines, as well. But they both easily blow Salma out of the water.)

    Still, Salma Hayek, who has a stunning body, incredible breasts, and strikingly memorable features, also has an unfeminine, square jaw. She would not have been in the top tier of beauties back in the day. (Grace Kelly and Ava Gardner, for instance, had overly strong jawlines, as well. But they both easily blow Salma out of the water.)

    Comparing Salma to Grace Kelly and Ava Gardner is pretty unfair. Talk about a high bar!

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  202. @syonredux

    I’m not sure luck had all that much to do with it. It sounds like Salma outmaneuvered supermodel Linda Evangelista in competition for the French billionaire. It’s a little like saying Tom Brady lucked out in marrying his spouse.
     
    Trump would have gone for the 5'9 Evangelista over the 5'2 Salma....

    Another reason to vote Trump: his private life shows that he believes in eugenics...

    A man who would go for Linda Evangelista over Salma Hayek is a man who is not 100 percent heterosexual.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    A man who would go for Linda Evangelista over Salma Hayek is a man who is not 100 percent heterosexual.
     
    Trump looks awfully hetero to me.....

    He simply has high standards when it comes to breeding stock....So, a 5'9 Italian beats out a 5'2 Mexican Arab
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  203. syonredux says:
    @Jefferson
    "Tom Brady’s wife Gisele Bündchen likely is 95% European."

    Gisele Bundchen is 100 percent European because her ancestors immigrated to Brazil in the 20th Century to a small racially segregated German speaking community in Rio Grande Do Sul that very few to no Blacks and Browns.

    “Tom Brady’s wife Gisele Bündchen likely is 95% European.”

    Gisele Bundchen is 100 percent European because her ancestors immigrated to Brazil in the 20th Century to a small racially segregated German speaking community in Rio Grande Do Sul that very few to no Blacks and Browns.

    Indeed. Her ancestry is completely German:

    Her parents, Vânia Maria Nonnenmacher and Valdir Reinoldo Bündchen, are both of German ancestry. Bundchen was born and raised in Horizontina, a southern region in Brazil, where there is a large ethnic German community. She is a sixth-generation German Brazilian, with some ancestry in Rhineland-Palatinate and Baden-Württemberg.

    Gisele’s paternal grandparents were Walter Bündchen (the son of Hermann Bündchen and Wilhelmine Pauline Bühler) and Lucila Luckemeyer. Hermann was the son of Heinrich Bündchen and Maria Margaretha Laux. Wilhelmine was the daughter of Friedrich Wilhelm Buhler, whose parents were German, and Maria Müller, who was also of German descent.

    Gisele’s maternal grandparents were João Theobaldo Nonnenmacher and Maria Kolling (the daughter of Francisco Antônio Kolling and Maria Bohn). Gisele’s great-grandmother Maria Bohn was the daughter of Bernardo Bohn and Maria Dresch, who were born in Germany.

    http://ethnicelebs.com/gisele-bundchen

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  204. @guest
    "Every leading movie lady is well above average in looks. Heck, character actresses are often knockouts"

    I'd say this was true in the Bad Old Days, when Hollywood went out of its way to cast feminine women. It becomes less and less true every year, as I've noticed actresses on average becoming more and more masculine and more and more like Tom Wolfe's "social x-rays." I blame this on the same you-know-whos in charge of High Fashion, though it's not as bad as in that field.

    They are well-groomed, well-appointed, not fat (though generally too skinny), with clear skin and no obvious signs of sickness. And there are a lot of flat-out ugly people in the world. So your well above average point is taken.

    Still, Salma Hayek, who has a stunning body, incredible breasts, and strikingly memorable features, also has an unfeminine, square jaw. She would not have been in the top tier of beauties back in the day. (Grace Kelly and Ava Gardner, for instance, had overly strong jawlines, as well. But they both easily blow Salma out of the water.)

    I dunno, man. Salma could blow me out of the water or anything else she wanted. Never noticed her jaw.

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  205. syonredux says:
    @Hare Krishna
    A man who would go for Linda Evangelista over Salma Hayek is a man who is not 100 percent heterosexual.

    A man who would go for Linda Evangelista over Salma Hayek is a man who is not 100 percent heterosexual.

    Trump looks awfully hetero to me…..

    He simply has high standards when it comes to breeding stock….So, a 5’9 Italian beats out a 5’2 Mexican Arab

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    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    What high standards would Salma not meet? Only the standards of a guy who likes masculine women. While I wouldn't kick Evangelista out of bed, she looks like a man compared to Salma.

    Not saying Trump's a closet case - he's certainly had more hetero sex than the entire alt-right combined 1000 times over - but a guy with a funny, elaborate hairstyle who wears makeup, has a diva-like personality, and loves show tunes and Elton John, AND who went to an all-boys boarding school....
    , @Anonymous
    Trump is 6'2". Hayek's husband appears to be shorter, and not much taller than Hayek. He may be shorter than Evangelista or similar to her in height. Relative height matters - most men are not very attracted to women who are similar or greater to themselves in height. Also Evangelista has the more androgynous body type that models have compared to the curvier feminine body type of Hayek. It's not odd that Hayek's husband would choose a woman shorter than himself with a curvier body than a tall model competing with him in height.
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  206. guest says:
    @Formerly CARealist
    Is somebody going to explain "find the democracy inside" to me?

    My inner democracy has me sitting on the throne with no one else around. Maybe all theirs does too.

    Democracy is found in your Q Zone, right next to the flammerstam. If you hit the codswallop you’ve gone too far.

    Had mine removed with a laparectomy shortly after joining the Dark Enlightenment.

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  207. @syonredux

    A man who would go for Linda Evangelista over Salma Hayek is a man who is not 100 percent heterosexual.
     
    Trump looks awfully hetero to me.....

    He simply has high standards when it comes to breeding stock....So, a 5'9 Italian beats out a 5'2 Mexican Arab

    What high standards would Salma not meet? Only the standards of a guy who likes masculine women. While I wouldn’t kick Evangelista out of bed, she looks like a man compared to Salma.

    Not saying Trump’s a closet case – he’s certainly had more hetero sex than the entire alt-right combined 1000 times over – but a guy with a funny, elaborate hairstyle who wears makeup, has a diva-like personality, and loves show tunes and Elton John, AND who went to an all-boys boarding school….

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    • Replies: @guest
    You have to weigh sexual attraction with social gamesmanship. You marry not to only to satisfy your libido but to look good in your circle. If this were a different era I could see Trump breeding with more feminine women. But it is now, and the dominant female type is the model type: minimally to moderately masculinized social x-rays.

    I haven't gone through Trump's menagerie with a fine-toothed comb, and am not old enough to remember all his tabloid romances. But Melania, who benefits by comparison to her predecessor, is an actual model. She fits the type. Men like Trump are expected to wed fashionable body types.

    I have to believe that, otherwise all these powerful men marrying shemales have to be homos. Not that Melania is a shemale, but Tom Brady's wife, for instance, is. Is Brady a homo? Or George Clooney, who's wife doesn't look like a man persay but is ugly? That came up on another thread not long ago. Maybe, maybe not. But they could easily be marrying for appearances. Sorta like how Bill Clinton married for power.

    , @syonredux

    What high standards would Salma not meet?
     
    Too short. Having kids with a 5'2 woman is not a good idea.....


    So, from a eugenics standpoint:

    Salma Hayek: Short and Levantine-Mexican

    Linda Evangelista: Tall and European

    Salma: pump and dump

    Linda: prime breeding stock
    , @Kyle McKenna

    Not saying Trump’s a closet case – he’s certainly had more hetero sex than the entire alt-right combined 1000 times over – but a guy with a funny, elaborate hairstyle who wears makeup, has a diva-like personality, and loves show tunes and Elton John, AND who went to an all-boys boarding school….
     
    Oh Jesus. Tom Brady's supposed to be gay and now this? If I'd read this one first I wouldn't have bothered responding to you at all.

    Three guesses why a couple of trolls here are into short ethnic women?
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  208. guest says:

    By the way, just for kicks I looked for headlines involving Hayek today, and above ones about her clothes and hairstyle I saw: “Salma Hayek in trouble for condescending to Jessica Williams.” Which was obviously written by an SJW (or zombie follower), but not a heterosexual male one.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    By the way, just for kicks I looked for headlines involving Hayek today, and above ones about her clothes and hairstyle I saw: “Salma Hayek in trouble for condescending to Jessica Williams.” Which was obviously written by an SJW (or zombie follower),
     
    Mexican Arab vs Black woman: SJWs will side with the Black chick....

    Maybe Salma should look for ways to expand her intersectionality.....Let's see, she could start talking about how she's bisexual.....maybe embrace Islam.....
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  209. guest says:
    @Hare Krishna
    What high standards would Salma not meet? Only the standards of a guy who likes masculine women. While I wouldn't kick Evangelista out of bed, she looks like a man compared to Salma.

    Not saying Trump's a closet case - he's certainly had more hetero sex than the entire alt-right combined 1000 times over - but a guy with a funny, elaborate hairstyle who wears makeup, has a diva-like personality, and loves show tunes and Elton John, AND who went to an all-boys boarding school....

    You have to weigh sexual attraction with social gamesmanship. You marry not to only to satisfy your libido but to look good in your circle. If this were a different era I could see Trump breeding with more feminine women. But it is now, and the dominant female type is the model type: minimally to moderately masculinized social x-rays.

    I haven’t gone through Trump’s menagerie with a fine-toothed comb, and am not old enough to remember all his tabloid romances. But Melania, who benefits by comparison to her predecessor, is an actual model. She fits the type. Men like Trump are expected to wed fashionable body types.

    I have to believe that, otherwise all these powerful men marrying shemales have to be homos. Not that Melania is a shemale, but Tom Brady’s wife, for instance, is. Is Brady a homo? Or George Clooney, who’s wife doesn’t look like a man persay but is ugly? That came up on another thread not long ago. Maybe, maybe not. But they could easily be marrying for appearances. Sorta like how Bill Clinton married for power.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    I wouldn't consider Melania to be masculine. Too tall, yes. But feminine.
    I wouldn't consider Gisele Bundchen to be masculine either.
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  210. syonredux says:
    @Hare Krishna
    What high standards would Salma not meet? Only the standards of a guy who likes masculine women. While I wouldn't kick Evangelista out of bed, she looks like a man compared to Salma.

    Not saying Trump's a closet case - he's certainly had more hetero sex than the entire alt-right combined 1000 times over - but a guy with a funny, elaborate hairstyle who wears makeup, has a diva-like personality, and loves show tunes and Elton John, AND who went to an all-boys boarding school....

    What high standards would Salma not meet?

    Too short. Having kids with a 5’2 woman is not a good idea…..

    So, from a eugenics standpoint:

    Salma Hayek: Short and Levantine-Mexican

    Linda Evangelista: Tall and European

    Salma: pump and dump

    Linda: prime breeding stock

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    If you consider a preference for masculine women to be "eugenic".
    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    There have been periods of backlash but the ideal of the pubescent of indeterminate sex has always reappeared. The men who run fashion wouldn't have it any other way. "Eugenics" sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.
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  211. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @syonredux

    A man who would go for Linda Evangelista over Salma Hayek is a man who is not 100 percent heterosexual.
     
    Trump looks awfully hetero to me.....

    He simply has high standards when it comes to breeding stock....So, a 5'9 Italian beats out a 5'2 Mexican Arab

    Trump is 6’2″. Hayek’s husband appears to be shorter, and not much taller than Hayek. He may be shorter than Evangelista or similar to her in height. Relative height matters – most men are not very attracted to women who are similar or greater to themselves in height. Also Evangelista has the more androgynous body type that models have compared to the curvier feminine body type of Hayek. It’s not odd that Hayek’s husband would choose a woman shorter than himself with a curvier body than a tall model competing with him in height.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Trump is 6’2″. Hayek’s husband appears to be shorter, and not much taller than Hayek. He may be shorter than Evangelista or similar to her in height. Relative height matters – most men are not very attracted to women who are similar or greater to themselves in height. Also Evangelista has the more androgynous body type that models have compared to the curvier feminine body type of Hayek. It’s not odd that Hayek’s husband would choose a woman shorter than himself with a curvier body than a tall model competing with him in height.
     
    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically. He's short. Therefore, he needs to procreate with a woman who is at least as tall as he is, and not an Arab-Mexican dwarfette....

    Trump's choice in breeding stock (tall and European) reveals his innate sense of what is right and good....
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  212. syonredux says:
    @guest
    By the way, just for kicks I looked for headlines involving Hayek today, and above ones about her clothes and hairstyle I saw: "Salma Hayek in trouble for condescending to Jessica Williams." Which was obviously written by an SJW (or zombie follower), but not a heterosexual male one.

    By the way, just for kicks I looked for headlines involving Hayek today, and above ones about her clothes and hairstyle I saw: “Salma Hayek in trouble for condescending to Jessica Williams.” Which was obviously written by an SJW (or zombie follower),

    Mexican Arab vs Black woman: SJWs will side with the Black chick….

    Maybe Salma should look for ways to expand her intersectionality…..Let’s see, she could start talking about how she’s bisexual…..maybe embrace Islam…..

    Read More
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  213. @syonredux

    What high standards would Salma not meet?
     
    Too short. Having kids with a 5'2 woman is not a good idea.....


    So, from a eugenics standpoint:

    Salma Hayek: Short and Levantine-Mexican

    Linda Evangelista: Tall and European

    Salma: pump and dump

    Linda: prime breeding stock

    If you consider a preference for masculine women to be “eugenic”.
    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    There have been periods of backlash but the ideal of the pubescent of indeterminate sex has always reappeared. The men who run fashion wouldn’t have it any other way. “Eugenics” sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    “Eugenics” sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.
     
    Tall and European vs short and Levantine-Mexican.....

    Which makes better breeding stock?
    , @Kyle McKenna

    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    ...“Eugenics” sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.
     
    That's just goofy. A couple top models resembled teenaged boys--a little--when they were made up that way. Kate Moss for example. Meanwhile Christie Brinkley, Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer, Christy Turlington, Gisele Bundchen, Naomi Campbell, Linda Evangelista, and pretty much every other top model from the era indicate that you need new spectacles, or something. And preferring attractive women--even tall ones--hardly indicates "gay misogyny". You come across as rather messed up.
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  214. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are. Francois Pinault is more like the overwhelming majority of heterosexual men in his preferences.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are. Francois Pinault is more like the overwhelming majority of heterosexual men in his preferences.
     
    And his poor taste means inferior offspring.....
    , @Jefferson
    "Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are."

    If the shorter a woman is the more feminine looking she is, are you saying Swedish women for example look more masculine than Guatemalan women?

    If marrying the shortest woman you can find that is not yet legally a midget should be your goal in life, than forget about the blonde Nordic Aryan Goddesses of Northern Europe and instead look for a wife who is either from Mexico, Peru, Bolivia, Central America, East Asia, or Southeast Asia.
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  215. syonredux says:
    @Anonymous
    Trump is 6'2". Hayek's husband appears to be shorter, and not much taller than Hayek. He may be shorter than Evangelista or similar to her in height. Relative height matters - most men are not very attracted to women who are similar or greater to themselves in height. Also Evangelista has the more androgynous body type that models have compared to the curvier feminine body type of Hayek. It's not odd that Hayek's husband would choose a woman shorter than himself with a curvier body than a tall model competing with him in height.

    Trump is 6’2″. Hayek’s husband appears to be shorter, and not much taller than Hayek. He may be shorter than Evangelista or similar to her in height. Relative height matters – most men are not very attracted to women who are similar or greater to themselves in height. Also Evangelista has the more androgynous body type that models have compared to the curvier feminine body type of Hayek. It’s not odd that Hayek’s husband would choose a woman shorter than himself with a curvier body than a tall model competing with him in height.

    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically. He’s short. Therefore, he needs to procreate with a woman who is at least as tall as he is, and not an Arab-Mexican dwarfette….

    Trump’s choice in breeding stock (tall and European) reveals his innate sense of what is right and good….

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Men prefer curvier women who look like women because said body structure is more conducive to having children, or is viewed as such.
    , @guest
    I looked up Linda Evangelista's height out of curiosity, and she's 5'10". That's way more than enough. All things being equal, I wouldn't know which to prefer eugenically, 5'2" or 5'10". Depends on the man, I suppose. But there are other, more important qualities lacking in Linda. Women resembling men don't tend to produce many babies.

    You vastly overrate the importance of height, for mysterious reasons. I'm fine with the European part, if you are of European descent and want your kids to look European. But otherwise, that has little to do with good breeding stock, either.

    Traditionally, Europeans have bred for strength in men and prettiness in women. It has served us well. (Prettiness was not defined as being taller than other women.)

    , @Anonymous
    I don't think you're thinking "eugenically". In any case, "eugenic" ceases to be meaningful in these sorts of discussions, and simply serves as a stand in for subjective preference.

    By your reasoning, men should take 10 ft. tall women as brides.

    Men tend to prefer shorter more feminine women over tall androgynous ones.

    Trump's children are pretty unremarkable. None of them have accomplished anything on their own in a separate field. They're known for appearing on The Apprentice with their father and being involved in their father's business, which is based on his personal celebrity.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically.
     
    Pinault already has children with a French ex-wife (according to Wikipedia). Assuming he’s straight and is looking for companionship in a mate, and not mere pump-dump-and-support Lebensborn vessels (which in that case should be fit young lasses), I give you this visual comparison: Linda Evangelista 2016 (top row!) vs. Salma Hayek 2016.

    Even though Hayek has a comically stumpy figure, she blows away Evangelista in the Cialis sweepstakes. Pinault himself is no Adonis. Here’s the little dude with Hayek and Six Flags’ Mr. Six, who is 6’3”.
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  216. syonredux says:
    @Hare Krishna
    If you consider a preference for masculine women to be "eugenic".
    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    There have been periods of backlash but the ideal of the pubescent of indeterminate sex has always reappeared. The men who run fashion wouldn't have it any other way. "Eugenics" sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.

    “Eugenics” sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.

    Tall and European vs short and Levantine-Mexican…..

    Which makes better breeding stock?

    Read More
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  217. syonredux says:
    @Anon
    Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are. Francois Pinault is more like the overwhelming majority of heterosexual men in his preferences.

    Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are. Francois Pinault is more like the overwhelming majority of heterosexual men in his preferences.

    And his poor taste means inferior offspring…..

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    "His poor taste means inferior offspring"

    Oh, what a brave new world of superior, androgenous, European Thems you'd breed.
    , @ATX Hipster
    The girl has billionaires on both sides of her family. She'll probably end up alright.
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  218. […] Source: Salma Hayek and a young black starlet debate who deserves more Intersectional Pokemon Points –… […]

    Read More
  219. @Steve Sailer
    I'm not sure luck had all that much to do with it. It sounds like Salma outmaneuvered supermodel Linda Evangelista in competition for the French billionaire. It's a little like saying Tom Brady lucked out in marrying his spouse.

    OK, I’ll go along with “outmaneuvered.” But have you seen Linda lately? She did not age well. Being a model when you’re young is one thing. Most people look OK when they’re young. But it’s the “after 50″ where you really see the deviation. Linda may have beat Salma by 7 inches in height, but right now, Salma’s got Linda beat in terms of “aging well.” Pinault is rich and could get another woman if he wanted. But for now he seems happy with having chosen Salma. And from what I’ve read, Salma really wants to make her husband and child happy. Linda’s background was also a bit more “sketchy.”

    Read More
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  220. Jefferson says:
    @attilathehen
    That's Brazil where 60% of the population is black (from light to dark skinned). Latin America is either mestizo (Indian) or mulatto (black). Brazil, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Panama, Columbia, Venezuela have large black populations. Mexico, Bolivia, Ecuador are largely Indian. For some bizarre reason, Brazil is always viewed as the model Latin nation. It is very segregated and this "5%" black is very rare. I've known many Latins and they are very aware of their family histories. Brazil is being pushed for propaganda purposes in the USA.

    “That’s Brazil where 60% of the population is black”

    No it’s not. Do you have any studies to back up your claim that the average Brazilian is genetically of predominantly Sub Saharan African ancestry like other New World groups like African Americans, Jamaicans, and Haitians?

    The average Brazilian is an Octoroon. The “Blackest” region of Brazil which is the Northeast, the average Brazilian is a Quadroon.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_Brazil

    If Brazilians on average were a predominantly Sub Saharan African people their human development index would be similar to that of other Sub Saharan African countries.

    Brazil has a higher human development index than some Eastern European and Balkan countries.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop

    Read More
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  221. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @syonredux

    Trump is 6’2″. Hayek’s husband appears to be shorter, and not much taller than Hayek. He may be shorter than Evangelista or similar to her in height. Relative height matters – most men are not very attracted to women who are similar or greater to themselves in height. Also Evangelista has the more androgynous body type that models have compared to the curvier feminine body type of Hayek. It’s not odd that Hayek’s husband would choose a woman shorter than himself with a curvier body than a tall model competing with him in height.
     
    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically. He's short. Therefore, he needs to procreate with a woman who is at least as tall as he is, and not an Arab-Mexican dwarfette....

    Trump's choice in breeding stock (tall and European) reveals his innate sense of what is right and good....

    Men prefer curvier women who look like women because said body structure is more conducive to having children, or is viewed as such.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Men prefer curvier women who look like women because said body structure is more conducive to having children, or is viewed as such.
     
    And eugenically minded European men like Trump prefer tall European women. Why?

    1. Because it means purely European offspring

    2. Because it increases the odds for tall offspring
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  222. For what it’s worth, I think both MacLaine/Hayek and Williams made some substantive points. One side effectively said that you can ignore everything in your environment when establishing your sense of self (does anyone here really affirm that?), but they did so in an effort to assert the individual’s intrinsic worth beyond social/racial/ethnic/gender identities (I think a lot of us here would defend the notion of such intrinsic worth), while the other side said that black women in America have it worse, on average, than white women (who here would actually deny that?). Yeah, the argument got caught in the crosshairs of ideology and personal status-jockeying, but I think both sides had a point.

    On the whole, despite the patently over-compensating “I’m the hottest B on the planet,” I think Williams was the more reasonable and honest participant in the conversation, insofar as she explicitly said both sides had a point, and she wasn’t trying to get personal.

    ‘”What does this mean, ‘speak over?’” Hayek asked.”

    Yeah, I know most people here are sick of hearing the concept of “speaking over,” but you have to admit, if there were ever a clearer instance of it, Hayek spoke right on over Williams. Spoke and trounced over her. Maybe good for the peanut gallery here, but I bet it sucked for Williams. Whoo.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Jessica Williams seems like a nice person of conventional conformist views who was being encouraged, as she no doubt often is, to play the race card in order to be praised, only to run into the buzzsaw of intra-sex competitiveness in the form of uberwoman Salma Hayek.

    Poor Jessica struggled within the limited mental concepts with which her years with The Daily Show have furnished her to deal with this kind of raw reality.

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  223. guest says:
    @syonredux

    Trump is 6’2″. Hayek’s husband appears to be shorter, and not much taller than Hayek. He may be shorter than Evangelista or similar to her in height. Relative height matters – most men are not very attracted to women who are similar or greater to themselves in height. Also Evangelista has the more androgynous body type that models have compared to the curvier feminine body type of Hayek. It’s not odd that Hayek’s husband would choose a woman shorter than himself with a curvier body than a tall model competing with him in height.
     
    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically. He's short. Therefore, he needs to procreate with a woman who is at least as tall as he is, and not an Arab-Mexican dwarfette....

    Trump's choice in breeding stock (tall and European) reveals his innate sense of what is right and good....

    I looked up Linda Evangelista’s height out of curiosity, and she’s 5’10″. That’s way more than enough. All things being equal, I wouldn’t know which to prefer eugenically, 5’2″ or 5’10″. Depends on the man, I suppose. But there are other, more important qualities lacking in Linda. Women resembling men don’t tend to produce many babies.

    You vastly overrate the importance of height, for mysterious reasons. I’m fine with the European part, if you are of European descent and want your kids to look European. But otherwise, that has little to do with good breeding stock, either.

    Traditionally, Europeans have bred for strength in men and prettiness in women. It has served us well. (Prettiness was not defined as being taller than other women.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    I looked up Linda Evangelista’s height out of curiosity, and she’s 5’10″. That’s way more than enough.
     
    Dunno. If you are a 6'2 man, it sounds just about right.....

    All things being equal, I wouldn’t know which to prefer eugenically, 5’2″ or 5’10″
     
    5'10. Unless you want short kids....

    traditionally, Europeans have bred for strength in men and prettiness in women. It has served us well. (Prettiness was not defined as being taller than other women.)
     
    Not sure how "strong" the male offspring will be if the mothers are diminutive....
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  224. guest says:
    @syonredux

    Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are. Francois Pinault is more like the overwhelming majority of heterosexual men in his preferences.
     
    And his poor taste means inferior offspring.....

    “His poor taste means inferior offspring”

    Oh, what a brave new world of superior, androgenous, European Thems you’d breed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    “His poor taste means inferior offspring”

    Oh, what a brave new world of superior, androgenous, European Thems you’d breed.
     
    As opposed to Arab-Mexican dwarfs.......
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  225. @Hare Krishna
    If you consider a preference for masculine women to be "eugenic".
    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    There have been periods of backlash but the ideal of the pubescent of indeterminate sex has always reappeared. The men who run fashion wouldn't have it any other way. "Eugenics" sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.

    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    …“Eugenics” sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.

    That’s just goofy. A couple top models resembled teenaged boys–a little–when they were made up that way. Kate Moss for example. Meanwhile Christie Brinkley, Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer, Christy Turlington, Gisele Bundchen, Naomi Campbell, Linda Evangelista, and pretty much every other top model from the era indicate that you need new spectacles, or something. And preferring attractive women–even tall ones–hardly indicates “gay misogyny”. You come across as rather messed up.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition led to a convergence in looks between fashion models and bikini models in the mid-1970s: e.g., Cheryl Tiegs. To get on the cover of SI, the most valuable single job in terms of fame and career, a model generally had to appeal to both camps.
    , @Anonymous
    Crawford and Schiffer represented the era of backlash against the beauty standards set in the late '60s, and going back to the standards of beauty of a healthier era - which coincided with the Reagan backlash against the political and cultural standards also set in the late '60s. Didn't last. Just like the political backlash didn't last. And the androgyny is still pretty dominant today. Look at the crap that Kate Upton has gotten from Karl Lagerfeld and other gay men who run fashion.

    Evangelista doesn't look like a 14 year old boy but she does look masculine.
    , @syonredux

    That’s just goofy. A couple top models resembled teenaged boys–a little–when they were made up that way. Kate Moss for example. Meanwhile Christie Brinkley, Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer, Christy Turlington, Gisele Bundchen, Naomi Campbell, Linda Evangelista, and pretty much every other top model from the era indicate that you need new spectacles, or something.
     
    Indeed:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAO60aTAyEA
    , @guest
    You are severely out of touch with the world of High Fashion. I'm not intimately familiar with all the Big Names you drop, but you must realize those are the ones the media tried to sell to the general public and they had to at least try to make them look like actual women. They didn't actually pick feminine women to be supermodels , because they couldn't, because that goes against everything they believe. But they did attempt with great gusto and apparently a lot of success to pass them off as such.

    Lighting, posing, photography tricks, make-up, costumes, take them away and you're left overwhelmingly with grown woman versions of adolescent boys. Take a look at Cindy Crawford, Elle Macpherson, Gisele Brady, and probably the rest of them (I can't say for sure, because I haven't studied them all in-depth) in candid shots, preferably on the beach. You'll find the sane things: tall, broad shoulders, gangly limbs, skinnier than an adult woman should be, straight up-and-down body, no hips or ass to speak of, either no breasts or likely implants (occasionally real, woman-type breasts, but on manly bodies), high cheek bones (which the fashion industry has tricked everyone into thinking is feminine), square or at least strong jaws, protruding foreheads, caveman brows.

    I could go on and on. It's much worse in the normal, day to day fashion world. The ones the general public doesn't get to see are allowed to be as adolescent boy-like as possible.
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  226. @Hare Krishna
    What high standards would Salma not meet? Only the standards of a guy who likes masculine women. While I wouldn't kick Evangelista out of bed, she looks like a man compared to Salma.

    Not saying Trump's a closet case - he's certainly had more hetero sex than the entire alt-right combined 1000 times over - but a guy with a funny, elaborate hairstyle who wears makeup, has a diva-like personality, and loves show tunes and Elton John, AND who went to an all-boys boarding school....

    Not saying Trump’s a closet case – he’s certainly had more hetero sex than the entire alt-right combined 1000 times over – but a guy with a funny, elaborate hairstyle who wears makeup, has a diva-like personality, and loves show tunes and Elton John, AND who went to an all-boys boarding school….

    Oh Jesus. Tom Brady’s supposed to be gay and now this? If I’d read this one first I wouldn’t have bothered responding to you at all.

    Three guesses why a couple of trolls here are into short ethnic women?

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  227. @Mr. Anon
    "Pardon my heteronormativity, but is there a hotter 50 yr old on the planet than Ms. Hayek?"

    She's something else. I remember first seeing her as the snake-dancer / vampire in From Dusk Till Dawn

    Susan Sarandon is 70, and she still looks good.

    Good genes and good living, I suppose.

    Susan Sarandon is 70, and still looks good.

    Oh, good grief – what’s next? Gloria Steinem still has it? Barbara Streisand is a looker? Shirley MacLaine makes

    I am all for non disputandem de gustibus est and all that, but really. Come on, the Wicked Witch of the West will be next.

    Okay, if you like Ms. Sarandon I wish you the best of luck with her. But if you wake up bereft of your manhood after your evening of bliss don’t say you weren’t warned.

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    • Replies: @guest
    The above poster means to say "for her age," no doubt. This gets translated into plain good lookedness, I don't know why.

    I imagine something similar happens with all the frankly ugly actresses who are called good looking. They look good for women who look like men, or they look good in the sense that at least they aren't obese and don't have open wounds on their heads.
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  228. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @syonredux

    Trump is 6’2″. Hayek’s husband appears to be shorter, and not much taller than Hayek. He may be shorter than Evangelista or similar to her in height. Relative height matters – most men are not very attracted to women who are similar or greater to themselves in height. Also Evangelista has the more androgynous body type that models have compared to the curvier feminine body type of Hayek. It’s not odd that Hayek’s husband would choose a woman shorter than himself with a curvier body than a tall model competing with him in height.
     
    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically. He's short. Therefore, he needs to procreate with a woman who is at least as tall as he is, and not an Arab-Mexican dwarfette....

    Trump's choice in breeding stock (tall and European) reveals his innate sense of what is right and good....

    I don’t think you’re thinking “eugenically”. In any case, “eugenic” ceases to be meaningful in these sorts of discussions, and simply serves as a stand in for subjective preference.

    By your reasoning, men should take 10 ft. tall women as brides.

    Men tend to prefer shorter more feminine women over tall androgynous ones.

    Trump’s children are pretty unremarkable. None of them have accomplished anything on their own in a separate field. They’re known for appearing on The Apprentice with their father and being involved in their father’s business, which is based on his personal celebrity.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    I don’t think you’re thinking “eugenically”.
     
    Of course I am. Ask any parent: Do you want your children to be tall or short?

    And, since I'm not a cuck, I think that European men should reproduce with European women.
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  229. @Kyle McKenna

    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    ...“Eugenics” sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.
     
    That's just goofy. A couple top models resembled teenaged boys--a little--when they were made up that way. Kate Moss for example. Meanwhile Christie Brinkley, Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer, Christy Turlington, Gisele Bundchen, Naomi Campbell, Linda Evangelista, and pretty much every other top model from the era indicate that you need new spectacles, or something. And preferring attractive women--even tall ones--hardly indicates "gay misogyny". You come across as rather messed up.

    The Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition led to a convergence in looks between fashion models and bikini models in the mid-1970s: e.g., Cheryl Tiegs. To get on the cover of SI, the most valuable single job in terms of fame and career, a model generally had to appeal to both camps.

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    • Agree: syonredux
    • Replies: @guest
    I don't know about Cheryl Tiegs in particular, who was before my time and whose body isn't familiar to me. But since I've been aware of such things, Sports Illustrated cover models are like any other model, except with larger breasts. Or not even that, in the case of say Elle Macpherson.

    SI has been totally captured by High Fashion, if it ever was something separate.
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  230. AP says:
    @Jefferson
    "It’s only 2%, but it is not insignificant."

    2 percent is insignificant.

    "1. These figures were for Lebanon as a whole, and not about each community within Lebanon."

    And Lebanon as a whole are about as European as Palestinians.

    "2. Christianity is a central building block of European culture. Even though a Lebanese Christian is primary Arabic genetically, culturally he has much in common with Europeans."

    And Latin Americans being overwhelmingly Christians also have much culturally in common with Europeans as well. So open borders is a good thing because it means we get culturally European Christian immigrants from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras, etc.

    “It’s only 2%, but it is not insignificant.”

    2 percent is insignificant.

    The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.

    Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.

    “2. Christianity is a central building block of European culture. Even though a Lebanese Christian is primary Arabic genetically, culturally he has much in common with Europeans.”

    And Latin Americans being overwhelmingly Christians also have much culturally in common with Europeans as well.

    The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to “Euroepanness.”

    Also, reviewing the percentages, “10% Asia Minor” probably means Indo-European – like Kurds or Armenians, indigenous people to Asia minor.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry."

    Let's deal with facts and not hypotheticals. The average Lebanese is only 5 percent European which means thr Lebanese are not the gold standard of Europeaness. Your average Dominican has more European ancestry than the Lebanese.

    "Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin."

    So the least European Italians are still way more genetically European than any Lebanese person, since nobody with 2 Lebanese parents would ever test only 15 percent MENA ancestry on AncestryByDNA and 23AndMe.

    "Also, reviewing the percentages, “10% Asia Minor” probably means Indo-European – like Kurds or Armenians, indigenous people to Asia minor."

    Armenians and Kurds are not Europeans.

    "The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to “Euroepanness.”

    You said people who are part of Christianity have a lot culturally in common with Europeans.
    , @Jefferson
    “The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.”

    Let’s deal with facts and not hypotheticals. The average Lebanese is only 5 percent European which means the Lebanese are not the gold standard of Europeaness. Your average Dominican has more European ancestry than the Lebanese.

    “Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.”

    So the least European Italians are still way more genetically European than any Lebanese person, since nobody with 2 Lebanese parents would ever test only 15 percent MENA ancestry on AncestryByDNA and 23AndMe.

    “Also, reviewing the percentages, “10% Asia Minor” probably means Indo-European – like Kurds or Armenians, indigenous people to Asia minor.”

    Armenians and Kurds are not Europeans.

    “The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to “Euroepanness.”

    You said people who are part of Christianity have a lot culturally in common with Europeans.
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  231. @For what it's worth
    For what it's worth, I think both MacLaine/Hayek and Williams made some substantive points. One side effectively said that you can ignore everything in your environment when establishing your sense of self (does anyone here really affirm that?), but they did so in an effort to assert the individual's intrinsic worth beyond social/racial/ethnic/gender identities (I think a lot of us here would defend the notion of such intrinsic worth), while the other side said that black women in America have it worse, on average, than white women (who here would actually deny that?). Yeah, the argument got caught in the crosshairs of ideology and personal status-jockeying, but I think both sides had a point.

    On the whole, despite the patently over-compensating "I'm the hottest B on the planet," I think Williams was the more reasonable and honest participant in the conversation, insofar as she explicitly said both sides had a point, and she wasn't trying to get personal.

    '"What does this mean, ‘speak over?’” Hayek asked."

    Yeah, I know most people here are sick of hearing the concept of "speaking over," but you have to admit, if there were ever a clearer instance of it, Hayek spoke right on over Williams. Spoke and trounced over her. Maybe good for the peanut gallery here, but I bet it sucked for Williams. Whoo.

    Jessica Williams seems like a nice person of conventional conformist views who was being encouraged, as she no doubt often is, to play the race card in order to be praised, only to run into the buzzsaw of intra-sex competitiveness in the form of uberwoman Salma Hayek.

    Poor Jessica struggled within the limited mental concepts with which her years with The Daily Show have furnished her to deal with this kind of raw reality.

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    • Agree: Kyle McKenna
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  232. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Kyle McKenna

    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    ...“Eugenics” sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.
     
    That's just goofy. A couple top models resembled teenaged boys--a little--when they were made up that way. Kate Moss for example. Meanwhile Christie Brinkley, Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer, Christy Turlington, Gisele Bundchen, Naomi Campbell, Linda Evangelista, and pretty much every other top model from the era indicate that you need new spectacles, or something. And preferring attractive women--even tall ones--hardly indicates "gay misogyny". You come across as rather messed up.

    Crawford and Schiffer represented the era of backlash against the beauty standards set in the late ’60s, and going back to the standards of beauty of a healthier era – which coincided with the Reagan backlash against the political and cultural standards also set in the late ’60s. Didn’t last. Just like the political backlash didn’t last. And the androgyny is still pretty dominant today. Look at the crap that Kate Upton has gotten from Karl Lagerfeld and other gay men who run fashion.

    Evangelista doesn’t look like a 14 year old boy but she does look masculine.

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    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
    Yeah I may have put Linda Evangelista on the wrong list. My bad. Karl Lagerfeld is a walking horror show who would probably be a horror show no matter what sexuality.
    , @syonredux

    Evangelista doesn’t look like a 14 year old boy but she does look masculine.
     
    Not compared to men....
    , @guest
    They may have been marketed as a backlash. I wasn't aware enough at the time so I don't know. Certainly the supermodel phenomenon fooled a lot of people. But they weren't in actuality a backlash. They represented those standards. At best they were slightly more attractive than average models.

    I have no idea how so many straight men were fooled into thinking Cindy Crawford is feminine. Claudia Schiffer at least had large, natural looking breasts. But the rest of her was no different.

    Kate Upton is an annoying case to me. She hits the weight issue and breast size issue perfectly, but she's not the most womanly woman. No ass, not a pretty face. I couldn't care less whether she gets to be a model or not. I certainly can't bring myself to care on account of her body weight percentage or the largeness of her bosom.

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  233. @guest
    You have to weigh sexual attraction with social gamesmanship. You marry not to only to satisfy your libido but to look good in your circle. If this were a different era I could see Trump breeding with more feminine women. But it is now, and the dominant female type is the model type: minimally to moderately masculinized social x-rays.

    I haven't gone through Trump's menagerie with a fine-toothed comb, and am not old enough to remember all his tabloid romances. But Melania, who benefits by comparison to her predecessor, is an actual model. She fits the type. Men like Trump are expected to wed fashionable body types.

    I have to believe that, otherwise all these powerful men marrying shemales have to be homos. Not that Melania is a shemale, but Tom Brady's wife, for instance, is. Is Brady a homo? Or George Clooney, who's wife doesn't look like a man persay but is ugly? That came up on another thread not long ago. Maybe, maybe not. But they could easily be marrying for appearances. Sorta like how Bill Clinton married for power.

    I wouldn’t consider Melania to be masculine. Too tall, yes. But feminine.
    I wouldn’t consider Gisele Bundchen to be masculine either.

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    • Replies: @guest
    "I wouldn't consider Melania to be masculine"

    Not compared to a man. But she is more masculine than your average woman, which is why she got to be a model. Attractive women should be more feminine than average, by definition.

    That's what I mean when I call these women masculine. Their features are on the masculine end of femininity. In cases like Gisele, they are on the extreme masculine end, bordering on looking like a transsexual. That's not the case with Melania.
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  234. @Anonymous
    Crawford and Schiffer represented the era of backlash against the beauty standards set in the late '60s, and going back to the standards of beauty of a healthier era - which coincided with the Reagan backlash against the political and cultural standards also set in the late '60s. Didn't last. Just like the political backlash didn't last. And the androgyny is still pretty dominant today. Look at the crap that Kate Upton has gotten from Karl Lagerfeld and other gay men who run fashion.

    Evangelista doesn't look like a 14 year old boy but she does look masculine.

    Yeah I may have put Linda Evangelista on the wrong list. My bad. Karl Lagerfeld is a walking horror show who would probably be a horror show no matter what sexuality.

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  235. syonredux says:
    @Anonymous
    Men prefer curvier women who look like women because said body structure is more conducive to having children, or is viewed as such.

    Men prefer curvier women who look like women because said body structure is more conducive to having children, or is viewed as such.

    And eugenically minded European men like Trump prefer tall European women. Why?

    1. Because it means purely European offspring

    2. Because it increases the odds for tall offspring

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  236. syonredux says:
    @Anonymous
    I don't think you're thinking "eugenically". In any case, "eugenic" ceases to be meaningful in these sorts of discussions, and simply serves as a stand in for subjective preference.

    By your reasoning, men should take 10 ft. tall women as brides.

    Men tend to prefer shorter more feminine women over tall androgynous ones.

    Trump's children are pretty unremarkable. None of them have accomplished anything on their own in a separate field. They're known for appearing on The Apprentice with their father and being involved in their father's business, which is based on his personal celebrity.

    I don’t think you’re thinking “eugenically”.

    Of course I am. Ask any parent: Do you want your children to be tall or short?

    And, since I’m not a cuck, I think that European men should reproduce with European women.

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    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    There are other names for a man who prefers women who looks like androgynous adolescents besides "cuck". Trapped in the closet?
    , @guest
    "Do you want your children to be tall or short?"

    That's not the central question of eugenics, thank God. If it were, we'd be breeding a race of tall men, okay. But what does it profit a man to have all the height in the world if he's got nothing but ugly women to pursue?
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  237. syonredux says:
    @guest
    "His poor taste means inferior offspring"

    Oh, what a brave new world of superior, androgenous, European Thems you'd breed.

    “His poor taste means inferior offspring”

    Oh, what a brave new world of superior, androgenous, European Thems you’d breed.

    As opposed to Arab-Mexican dwarfs…….

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Now, if this had been Lucy Liu rather than Salma Hayek, I wonder if there'd be as much hostility from the Peanut Gallery here, given how the short stature of Asians somehow gets a pass here (maybe because so many Asian women - although not Ms. Liu - look like 12 year old boys, bringing out the latent Gary Glitter that lurks in most alt-righters...)
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  238. bsb says: • Website
    @Travis
    Good point, but most Latin Americans self identify as white which distorts the reality.
    Tom Brady's wife Gisele Bündchen likely is 95% European. The descendants of European immigrants, particularly the Germans, Italians and Poles, are mainly concentrated in the southern part of the country, in the states of Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina, Paraná, and the most populous, São Paulo; these states have a large majority of people of European descent

    50% of Mexicans self identify as white and most of them are a third Amerindian....but about 10% of Mexican whites are 90% European. Most of the migrants we get from Mexico are 50% Amerindian. The white ones are after wealthy and less likely to leave Mexico.

    Well considering how often Turkics and Turanids could pass for full blooded Europeans I definitely think that self identified whites in Latin American should be presumed to be light skinned octoroons or castizos unless proven otherwise through a DNA test, since ancestral records can be fudged as well.

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  239. syonredux says:
    @guest
    I looked up Linda Evangelista's height out of curiosity, and she's 5'10". That's way more than enough. All things being equal, I wouldn't know which to prefer eugenically, 5'2" or 5'10". Depends on the man, I suppose. But there are other, more important qualities lacking in Linda. Women resembling men don't tend to produce many babies.

    You vastly overrate the importance of height, for mysterious reasons. I'm fine with the European part, if you are of European descent and want your kids to look European. But otherwise, that has little to do with good breeding stock, either.

    Traditionally, Europeans have bred for strength in men and prettiness in women. It has served us well. (Prettiness was not defined as being taller than other women.)

    I looked up Linda Evangelista’s height out of curiosity, and she’s 5’10″. That’s way more than enough.

    Dunno. If you are a 6’2 man, it sounds just about right…..

    All things being equal, I wouldn’t know which to prefer eugenically, 5’2″ or 5’10″

    5’10. Unless you want short kids….

    traditionally, Europeans have bred for strength in men and prettiness in women. It has served us well. (Prettiness was not defined as being taller than other women.)

    Not sure how “strong” the male offspring will be if the mothers are diminutive….

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  240. syonredux says:
    @Anonymous
    Crawford and Schiffer represented the era of backlash against the beauty standards set in the late '60s, and going back to the standards of beauty of a healthier era - which coincided with the Reagan backlash against the political and cultural standards also set in the late '60s. Didn't last. Just like the political backlash didn't last. And the androgyny is still pretty dominant today. Look at the crap that Kate Upton has gotten from Karl Lagerfeld and other gay men who run fashion.

    Evangelista doesn't look like a 14 year old boy but she does look masculine.

    Evangelista doesn’t look like a 14 year old boy but she does look masculine.

    Not compared to men….

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    • Replies: @guest
    "Not compared to men"

    Why would we compare her to men? I mean those of us who aren't homosexual fashion designers or casting agents.

    As I was saying in reply to another poster, we say masculine when to be more precise would should say "relatively masculinized." Meaning more masculine than the average woman. Attractive women, on the other hand, are more feminine than the average woman.

    There does come a point where femininity has diminishing returns. Extreme forms are likely to come off too childlike or just plain freakish. But generally speaking, more feminine is better and more masculine is worse. Heterosexual males and normal women alike tend to agree.

    Height is one of those qualities that tends to make you come off as more masculine, and therefore less attractive, the higher you go. Which is why 5'10" women don't have their pick in regular society (ask one), as opposed to celebrity, social x-ray, ruling elite society, which welcomes beanpoles.
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  241. syonredux says:
    @Kyle McKenna

    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    ...“Eugenics” sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.
     
    That's just goofy. A couple top models resembled teenaged boys--a little--when they were made up that way. Kate Moss for example. Meanwhile Christie Brinkley, Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer, Christy Turlington, Gisele Bundchen, Naomi Campbell, Linda Evangelista, and pretty much every other top model from the era indicate that you need new spectacles, or something. And preferring attractive women--even tall ones--hardly indicates "gay misogyny". You come across as rather messed up.

    That’s just goofy. A couple top models resembled teenaged boys–a little–when they were made up that way. Kate Moss for example. Meanwhile Christie Brinkley, Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer, Christy Turlington, Gisele Bundchen, Naomi Campbell, Linda Evangelista, and pretty much every other top model from the era indicate that you need new spectacles, or something.

    Indeed:

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  242. @syonredux

    I don’t think you’re thinking “eugenically”.
     
    Of course I am. Ask any parent: Do you want your children to be tall or short?

    And, since I'm not a cuck, I think that European men should reproduce with European women.

    There are other names for a man who prefers women who looks like androgynous adolescents besides “cuck”. Trapped in the closet?

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    There are other names for a man who prefers women who looks like androgynous adolescents besides “cuck”. Trapped in the closet?
     
    Dear fellow, the cuck designation refers to the fact that Salma is a Mexican-Arab, not to the fact that she is vertically challenged.

    Trump reproduces only with Europeans. Lesser breeds need not apply.

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  243. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @syonredux

    “His poor taste means inferior offspring”

    Oh, what a brave new world of superior, androgenous, European Thems you’d breed.
     
    As opposed to Arab-Mexican dwarfs.......

    Now, if this had been Lucy Liu rather than Salma Hayek, I wonder if there’d be as much hostility from the Peanut Gallery here, given how the short stature of Asians somehow gets a pass here (maybe because so many Asian women – although not Ms. Liu – look like 12 year old boys, bringing out the latent Gary Glitter that lurks in most alt-righters…)

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Have you guys ever seen leading lady movie stars in person?

    They're all good looking the same way NBA stars are all tall.

    , @syonredux

    Now, if this had been Lucy Liu rather than Salma Hayek, I wonder if there’d be as much hostility from the Peanut Gallery here, given how the short stature of Asians somehow gets a pass here
     
    Let's see, using the Trumpometer on Lucy Liu:

    Height: 5ft 1.75in (according to http://www.celebheights.com/)

    Ancestry: East Asian

    So, no, Lucy Liu loses out to chicks who are tall and European.
    , @attilathehen
    Asian women (along with black women) don't count. Only Caucasian/European women are considered beautiful. Asian women are busy whitening their skin, getting eyelid surgery and lightening their hair. If Asian women are so desired, why do they imitate white women? Black women do the same thing. Their hair weaves are always straight hair, they have their noses fixed.
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  244. @Anonymous
    Now, if this had been Lucy Liu rather than Salma Hayek, I wonder if there'd be as much hostility from the Peanut Gallery here, given how the short stature of Asians somehow gets a pass here (maybe because so many Asian women - although not Ms. Liu - look like 12 year old boys, bringing out the latent Gary Glitter that lurks in most alt-righters...)

    Have you guys ever seen leading lady movie stars in person?

    They’re all good looking the same way NBA stars are all tall.

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    • Replies: @guest
    "They're all good looking the same way NBA stars are tall"

    Not the same way. "Tall" is a relative term, but once you've set the average height of the population to which you're comparing them, in this case let's say U.S. adult males, the issue becomes inarguable. But with "good looking," there's a lot of room for me to have to guess what you mean. Because people do not use "good looking" these days with enough consistency.

    My instinct is to think at least "sexually attractive to normal, heterosexual members of the opposite sex," if not "approaching the ideal of feminine beauty." But it's common to think of women with striking or arresting features--useful for movie actresses--as attractive, but I think that flies in the face of classic standards of beauty. Sometimes they use it for women who are merely interesting looking.

    Then there are of course women who would be attractive were they not women and I didn't have to judge them as women. This hasn't taken over Hollywood yet, but it has conquered fashion and it continues to creep into the wider culture. I predict it will render discussion of good looks nearly impossible in traditional terms a couple of generations from now.

    I have seen famous women before. They were pleasant to look at, but I wouldn't say they were as beautiful as I g ad supposed. And that's what I look for from what are supposed to be the best looking women in the world: actual, feminine beauty. Not just above average looks.

    For one thing, they were usually over the hill or getting there. I could visit a random college campus and find better looking women, to my taste at least.
    , @Johnny789
    The most striking women that I've ever seen in person are/were NBA groupies.
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  245. To be fair, almost everybody sounds like an incoherent idiot when reporters publish verbatim conversations.

    Just be glad you’re not a lawyer being transcribed at hearings and depositions.

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  246. guest says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Have you guys ever seen leading lady movie stars in person?

    They're all good looking the same way NBA stars are all tall.

    “They’re all good looking the same way NBA stars are tall”

    Not the same way. “Tall” is a relative term, but once you’ve set the average height of the population to which you’re comparing them, in this case let’s say U.S. adult males, the issue becomes inarguable. But with “good looking,” there’s a lot of room for me to have to guess what you mean. Because people do not use “good looking” these days with enough consistency.

    My instinct is to think at least “sexually attractive to normal, heterosexual members of the opposite sex,” if not “approaching the ideal of feminine beauty.” But it’s common to think of women with striking or arresting features–useful for movie actresses–as attractive, but I think that flies in the face of classic standards of beauty. Sometimes they use it for women who are merely interesting looking.

    Then there are of course women who would be attractive were they not women and I didn’t have to judge them as women. This hasn’t taken over Hollywood yet, but it has conquered fashion and it continues to creep into the wider culture. I predict it will render discussion of good looks nearly impossible in traditional terms a couple of generations from now.

    I have seen famous women before. They were pleasant to look at, but I wouldn’t say they were as beautiful as I g ad supposed. And that’s what I look for from what are supposed to be the best looking women in the world: actual, feminine beauty. Not just above average looks.

    For one thing, they were usually over the hill or getting there. I could visit a random college campus and find better looking women, to my taste at least.

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  247. guest says:
    @Kyle McKenna

    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    ...“Eugenics” sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.
     
    That's just goofy. A couple top models resembled teenaged boys--a little--when they were made up that way. Kate Moss for example. Meanwhile Christie Brinkley, Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer, Christy Turlington, Gisele Bundchen, Naomi Campbell, Linda Evangelista, and pretty much every other top model from the era indicate that you need new spectacles, or something. And preferring attractive women--even tall ones--hardly indicates "gay misogyny". You come across as rather messed up.

    You are severely out of touch with the world of High Fashion. I’m not intimately familiar with all the Big Names you drop, but you must realize those are the ones the media tried to sell to the general public and they had to at least try to make them look like actual women. They didn’t actually pick feminine women to be supermodels , because they couldn’t, because that goes against everything they believe. But they did attempt with great gusto and apparently a lot of success to pass them off as such.

    Lighting, posing, photography tricks, make-up, costumes, take them away and you’re left overwhelmingly with grown woman versions of adolescent boys. Take a look at Cindy Crawford, Elle Macpherson, Gisele Brady, and probably the rest of them (I can’t say for sure, because I haven’t studied them all in-depth) in candid shots, preferably on the beach. You’ll find the sane things: tall, broad shoulders, gangly limbs, skinnier than an adult woman should be, straight up-and-down body, no hips or ass to speak of, either no breasts or likely implants (occasionally real, woman-type breasts, but on manly bodies), high cheek bones (which the fashion industry has tricked everyone into thinking is feminine), square or at least strong jaws, protruding foreheads, caveman brows.

    I could go on and on. It’s much worse in the normal, day to day fashion world. The ones the general public doesn’t get to see are allowed to be as adolescent boy-like as possible.

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  248. @syonredux

    Trump is 6’2″. Hayek’s husband appears to be shorter, and not much taller than Hayek. He may be shorter than Evangelista or similar to her in height. Relative height matters – most men are not very attracted to women who are similar or greater to themselves in height. Also Evangelista has the more androgynous body type that models have compared to the curvier feminine body type of Hayek. It’s not odd that Hayek’s husband would choose a woman shorter than himself with a curvier body than a tall model competing with him in height.
     
    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically. He's short. Therefore, he needs to procreate with a woman who is at least as tall as he is, and not an Arab-Mexican dwarfette....

    Trump's choice in breeding stock (tall and European) reveals his innate sense of what is right and good....

    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically.

    Pinault already has children with a French ex-wife (according to Wikipedia). Assuming he’s straight and is looking for companionship in a mate, and not mere pump-dump-and-support Lebensborn vessels (which in that case should be fit young lasses), I give you this visual comparison: Linda Evangelista 2016 (top row!) vs. Salma Hayek 2016.

    Even though Hayek has a comically stumpy figure, she blows away Evangelista in the Cialis sweepstakes. Pinault himself is no Adonis. Here’s the little dude with Hayek and Six Flags’ Mr. Six, who is 6’3”.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Pinault already has children with a French ex-wife (according to Wikipedia). Assuming he’s straight and is looking for companionship in a mate, and not mere pump-dump-and-support Lebensborn vessels (which in that case should be fit young lasses), I give you this visual comparison: Linda Evangelista 2016 (top row!) vs. Salma Hayek 2016.
     
    Evangelista's decadent lifestyle has taken its toll.....
    , @Johnny789
    Linda should never have grown her hair long is all I gotta say.
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  249. guest says:
    @Anonymous
    Crawford and Schiffer represented the era of backlash against the beauty standards set in the late '60s, and going back to the standards of beauty of a healthier era - which coincided with the Reagan backlash against the political and cultural standards also set in the late '60s. Didn't last. Just like the political backlash didn't last. And the androgyny is still pretty dominant today. Look at the crap that Kate Upton has gotten from Karl Lagerfeld and other gay men who run fashion.

    Evangelista doesn't look like a 14 year old boy but she does look masculine.

    They may have been marketed as a backlash. I wasn’t aware enough at the time so I don’t know. Certainly the supermodel phenomenon fooled a lot of people. But they weren’t in actuality a backlash. They represented those standards. At best they were slightly more attractive than average models.

    I have no idea how so many straight men were fooled into thinking Cindy Crawford is feminine. Claudia Schiffer at least had large, natural looking breasts. But the rest of her was no different.

    Kate Upton is an annoying case to me. She hits the weight issue and breast size issue perfectly, but she’s not the most womanly woman. No ass, not a pretty face. I couldn’t care less whether she gets to be a model or not. I certainly can’t bring myself to care on account of her body weight percentage or the largeness of her bosom.

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  250. guest says:
    @Hare Krishna
    I wouldn't consider Melania to be masculine. Too tall, yes. But feminine.
    I wouldn't consider Gisele Bundchen to be masculine either.

    “I wouldn’t consider Melania to be masculine”

    Not compared to a man. But she is more masculine than your average woman, which is why she got to be a model. Attractive women should be more feminine than average, by definition.

    That’s what I mean when I call these women masculine. Their features are on the masculine end of femininity. In cases like Gisele, they are on the extreme masculine end, bordering on looking like a transsexual. That’s not the case with Melania.

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  251. guest says:
    @syonredux

    Evangelista doesn’t look like a 14 year old boy but she does look masculine.
     
    Not compared to men....

    “Not compared to men”

    Why would we compare her to men? I mean those of us who aren’t homosexual fashion designers or casting agents.

    As I was saying in reply to another poster, we say masculine when to be more precise would should say “relatively masculinized.” Meaning more masculine than the average woman. Attractive women, on the other hand, are more feminine than the average woman.

    There does come a point where femininity has diminishing returns. Extreme forms are likely to come off too childlike or just plain freakish. But generally speaking, more feminine is better and more masculine is worse. Heterosexual males and normal women alike tend to agree.

    Height is one of those qualities that tends to make you come off as more masculine, and therefore less attractive, the higher you go. Which is why 5’10″ women don’t have their pick in regular society (ask one), as opposed to celebrity, social x-ray, ruling elite society, which welcomes beanpoles.

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  252. guest says:
    @syonredux

    I don’t think you’re thinking “eugenically”.
     
    Of course I am. Ask any parent: Do you want your children to be tall or short?

    And, since I'm not a cuck, I think that European men should reproduce with European women.

    “Do you want your children to be tall or short?”

    That’s not the central question of eugenics, thank God. If it were, we’d be breeding a race of tall men, okay. But what does it profit a man to have all the height in the world if he’s got nothing but ugly women to pursue?

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    “Do you want your children to be tall or short?”

    That’s not the central question of eugenics, thank God.
     
    Dunno. Never met anyone who wants to have short kids....

    If it were, we’d be breeding a race of tall men, okay. But what does it profit a man to have all the height in the world if he’s got nothing but ugly women to pursue?
     
    Dunno. The girls in the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue look pretty good to me:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAO60aTAyEA
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  253. @syonredux

    Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are. Francois Pinault is more like the overwhelming majority of heterosexual men in his preferences.
     
    And his poor taste means inferior offspring.....

    The girl has billionaires on both sides of her family. She’ll probably end up alright.

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  254. @slumber_j
    Son of Bob Abboud? Who was so oppressed he forced my father out of a job at First Chicago?

    The Lebanese are not a particularly disadvantaged people.

    You can take some vicarious revenge in pondering his brief tenure working for Armand Hammer at Oxy Pete. My uncle went with his boss for a year or so under Hammer. All he would say is that Armand Hammer isn’t like they make him seem on TV.

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  255. Jefferson says:
    @AP

    “It’s only 2%, but it is not insignificant.”

    2 percent is insignificant.
     
    The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.

    Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.

    “2. Christianity is a central building block of European culture. Even though a Lebanese Christian is primary Arabic genetically, culturally he has much in common with Europeans.”

    And Latin Americans being overwhelmingly Christians also have much culturally in common with Europeans as well.
     
    The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to "Euroepanness."

    Also, reviewing the percentages, "10% Asia Minor" probably means Indo-European - like Kurds or Armenians, indigenous people to Asia minor.

    “The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.”

    Let’s deal with facts and not hypotheticals. The average Lebanese is only 5 percent European which means thr Lebanese are not the gold standard of Europeaness. Your average Dominican has more European ancestry than the Lebanese.

    “Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.”

    So the least European Italians are still way more genetically European than any Lebanese person, since nobody with 2 Lebanese parents would ever test only 15 percent MENA ancestry on AncestryByDNA and 23AndMe.

    “Also, reviewing the percentages, “10% Asia Minor” probably means Indo-European – like Kurds or Armenians, indigenous people to Asia minor.”

    Armenians and Kurds are not Europeans.

    “The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to “Euroepanness.”

    You said people who are part of Christianity have a lot culturally in common with Europeans.

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    • Replies: @AP

    “The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.”

    Let’s deal with facts and not hypotheticals. The average Lebanese is only 5 percent European which means thr Lebanese are not the gold standard of Europeaness.
     
    The discussion is about Lebanese Christians, specifically. We already now that Lebanese Christians are 2% Western European, other Lebanese are not. So it is likely that Lebanese Christians also have more southern European ancestry, as well.

    “Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.”

    So the least European Italians are still way more genetically European than any Lebanese person
     
    In slightly underestimated Middle-Eastern genetic contribution to Italy - it is about 20%, not 15%. The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry. So a Lebanese, being 20% European, is 1/4 as purely European as an Italian. He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one.

    since nobody with 2 Lebanese parents would ever test only 15 percent MENA ancestry on AncestryByDNA and 23AndMe.
     
    Probably not. However, your original figures were misinterpreted. Here are detailed figures for various peoples in Europe and the Middle East:

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

    I, R1A and R1B are "European." "G" is Caucasian/Indo-European (Armenian, Georgian, Greeks from Anatolia). These four groups are broadly European.

    "J" is Semitic, "T" is Middle Eastern/North African, "E" is North African (in the Middle East) and Balkan (in Europe), "L" is Middle-Eastern/Caucasian.

    Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern.

    Palestinians are about 13% European.

    Saudis are about 10% European.

    Yemenese are about 0% European.

    Interestingly, Jordanians are about 27% European. The place must have had a lot of Roman settlement.

    Armenians and Kurds are not Europeans.
     
    I guess in your world Greek Anatolians, who are in the same genetic group as Armenians and Kurds, are also not Europeans? About 5-10 percent of Western Europeans have the ancestry primarily associated with Armenians and Kurds.

    If you define "European" strictly on geographic terms than Americans aren't Europeans either. If in terms of origin - most ancestors of modern Europeans arrived in Europe during the Bronze Age. The "Armenian" and "Kurdish" types are ones who stayed behind or moved to the ME rather than to Europe during the migrations.

    “The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to “Euroepanness.”

    You said people who are part of Christianity have a lot culturally in common with Europeans.
     
    They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?
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  256. Jefferson says:
    @Anon
    Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are. Francois Pinault is more like the overwhelming majority of heterosexual men in his preferences.

    “Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are.”

    If the shorter a woman is the more feminine looking she is, are you saying Swedish women for example look more masculine than Guatemalan women?

    If marrying the shortest woman you can find that is not yet legally a midget should be your goal in life, than forget about the blonde Nordic Aryan Goddesses of Northern Europe and instead look for a wife who is either from Mexico, Peru, Bolivia, Central America, East Asia, or Southeast Asia.

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    • Replies: @guest
    You won't find, I don't think, anyone arguing "the shorter the better" here, so nevermind your reductio ad absurdum. The above poster merely said men prefer women not to be as tall as them. How much shorter they'd prefer them to be is up for debate, but I'd definitely say the preference runs from shorter than average to average height for a woman.

    Women are on average shorter than men, and not shortness persay but less heightedness is an attribute of femininity. Heterosexual men generally prefer women who are not taller, and therefore more masculine than, the average woman. This is born out in experience, where tall women are obviously not envied by their sex (unless they become models and get confused for paragons of beauty) nor prized by the opposite sex (unless they live in social circles where model looks are fashionable).

    See every Junior High School ever.

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  257. Jefferson says:
    @AP

    “It’s only 2%, but it is not insignificant.”

    2 percent is insignificant.
     
    The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.

    Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.

    “2. Christianity is a central building block of European culture. Even though a Lebanese Christian is primary Arabic genetically, culturally he has much in common with Europeans.”

    And Latin Americans being overwhelmingly Christians also have much culturally in common with Europeans as well.
     
    The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to "Euroepanness."

    Also, reviewing the percentages, "10% Asia Minor" probably means Indo-European - like Kurds or Armenians, indigenous people to Asia minor.

    “The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.”

    Let’s deal with facts and not hypotheticals. The average Lebanese is only 5 percent European which means the Lebanese are not the gold standard of Europeaness. Your average Dominican has more European ancestry than the Lebanese.

    “Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.”

    So the least European Italians are still way more genetically European than any Lebanese person, since nobody with 2 Lebanese parents would ever test only 15 percent MENA ancestry on AncestryByDNA and 23AndMe.

    “Also, reviewing the percentages, “10% Asia Minor” probably means Indo-European – like Kurds or Armenians, indigenous people to Asia minor.”

    Armenians and Kurds are not Europeans.

    “The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to “Euroepanness.”

    You said people who are part of Christianity have a lot culturally in common with Europeans.

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  258. guest says:
    @Jefferson
    "Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are."

    If the shorter a woman is the more feminine looking she is, are you saying Swedish women for example look more masculine than Guatemalan women?

    If marrying the shortest woman you can find that is not yet legally a midget should be your goal in life, than forget about the blonde Nordic Aryan Goddesses of Northern Europe and instead look for a wife who is either from Mexico, Peru, Bolivia, Central America, East Asia, or Southeast Asia.

    You won’t find, I don’t think, anyone arguing “the shorter the better” here, so nevermind your reductio ad absurdum. The above poster merely said men prefer women not to be as tall as them. How much shorter they’d prefer them to be is up for debate, but I’d definitely say the preference runs from shorter than average to average height for a woman.

    Women are on average shorter than men, and not shortness persay but less heightedness is an attribute of femininity. Heterosexual men generally prefer women who are not taller, and therefore more masculine than, the average woman. This is born out in experience, where tall women are obviously not envied by their sex (unless they become models and get confused for paragons of beauty) nor prized by the opposite sex (unless they live in social circles where model looks are fashionable).

    See every Junior High School ever.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Long-leggedness is an attribute of sexiness in both sexes. Long legs imply a healthy, well-fed childhood, which implies a healthy, well-fed adulthood, which in turn implies healthy, well-fed children.

    Junior high school is when girls who go through puberty relatively early stop growing. Girls who go through puberty later keep growing. That's why tall models and actresses all tell interviewers that they were tomboys and weren't pretty when they were young -- for a year or so in adolescence they were behind in the puberty race.

    But it doesn't make much difference outside of junior high school.

    , @Jefferson
    "You won’t find, I don’t think, anyone arguing “the shorter the better” here, so nevermind your reductio ad absurdum."

    Anon basically said Salma Hayek's 5 foot 2 height makes her the ideal woman height wise. There are way more 5 foot 2 women in Mexico and Central America than in Northern Europe. Hence why Central America and Mexico never produce supermodels, because the women there are too short. So there is nothing absurd about what I said. What I said is 100 percent fact.
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  259. @guest
    You won't find, I don't think, anyone arguing "the shorter the better" here, so nevermind your reductio ad absurdum. The above poster merely said men prefer women not to be as tall as them. How much shorter they'd prefer them to be is up for debate, but I'd definitely say the preference runs from shorter than average to average height for a woman.

    Women are on average shorter than men, and not shortness persay but less heightedness is an attribute of femininity. Heterosexual men generally prefer women who are not taller, and therefore more masculine than, the average woman. This is born out in experience, where tall women are obviously not envied by their sex (unless they become models and get confused for paragons of beauty) nor prized by the opposite sex (unless they live in social circles where model looks are fashionable).

    See every Junior High School ever.

    Long-leggedness is an attribute of sexiness in both sexes. Long legs imply a healthy, well-fed childhood, which implies a healthy, well-fed adulthood, which in turn implies healthy, well-fed children.

    Junior high school is when girls who go through puberty relatively early stop growing. Girls who go through puberty later keep growing. That’s why tall models and actresses all tell interviewers that they were tomboys and weren’t pretty when they were young — for a year or so in adolescence they were behind in the puberty race.

    But it doesn’t make much difference outside of junior high school.

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    • Agree: Whoever
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Junior high school is when girls who go through puberty relatively early stop growing. Girls who go through puberty later keep growing. That’s why tall models and actresses all tell interviewers that they were tomboys and weren’t pretty when they were young — for a year or so in adolescence they were behind in the puberty race.

     

    Indeed. That's one of the reasons why I tend to doubt Salma's anecdote:

    “I was getting tested a lot because everybody was older and I was the skinny tomboy…
     
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/09/salma-hayek-boobs_n_1140150.html


    She simply doesn't have that kind of body. Now, if, say, Paulina Porizkova started talking about how she was a skinny, all-knees-and-elbows tomboy in early adolescence, that would strike me as quite plausible.
    , @guest
    I haven't done extensive research on the aesthetics of leg length. But I can say long-leggedness in itself isn't attractive, just like large breasts aren't. Because fat women have large breasts, and they aren't necessarily more attractive for that fact. Likewise, tall women have long legs, but we ought not to assume people favor above average height in women for that fact. It would be proportional length, if length is in fact prized. Shapeliness is more important, in any case.

    In any case, model-type legs, which are disproportionately long, are decidedly unattractive. They have no feminine shape, and are gangly. Like with everything else in High Fashion, and increasingly in the world at large, we confuse resemblance to adolescent males with feminine beauty.

    I could as easily have said high school as junior high. The point is pubescent kids are better at picking out natural beauty than those of us corrupted by our upside-down culture. Tall women aren't favored in any sector of heterosexual male society, but especially not in adolescence and early adulthood.

    Sexual maturity isn't the issue. Or maybe it is, in the sense that the secondary sexual characteristics of model-types never fully form. If they do, the woman in question wouldn't be alloweded to be a model. (Or not a High Fashion model, anyway.)

    When models talk of their unhappy adolescences on chat shows, we're supposed to shake our heads, laugh, and not really believe them. Or imagine they bloomed after school; I don't know which, maybe both. But I believe every model who says she was a tomboy and/or ugly duckling in school because they still are! Their looks didn't mature. Instead, they were thrown into a different world, with different standards, where ugly tomboys are appreciated.
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  260. Jefferson says:
    @guest
    You won't find, I don't think, anyone arguing "the shorter the better" here, so nevermind your reductio ad absurdum. The above poster merely said men prefer women not to be as tall as them. How much shorter they'd prefer them to be is up for debate, but I'd definitely say the preference runs from shorter than average to average height for a woman.

    Women are on average shorter than men, and not shortness persay but less heightedness is an attribute of femininity. Heterosexual men generally prefer women who are not taller, and therefore more masculine than, the average woman. This is born out in experience, where tall women are obviously not envied by their sex (unless they become models and get confused for paragons of beauty) nor prized by the opposite sex (unless they live in social circles where model looks are fashionable).

    See every Junior High School ever.

    “You won’t find, I don’t think, anyone arguing “the shorter the better” here, so nevermind your reductio ad absurdum.”

    Anon basically said Salma Hayek’s 5 foot 2 height makes her the ideal woman height wise. There are way more 5 foot 2 women in Mexico and Central America than in Northern Europe. Hence why Central America and Mexico never produce supermodels, because the women there are too short. So there is nothing absurd about what I said. What I said is 100 percent fact.

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  261. Johnny789 says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Have you guys ever seen leading lady movie stars in person?

    They're all good looking the same way NBA stars are all tall.

    The most striking women that I’ve ever seen in person are/were NBA groupies.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Baseball wives are a trip, too.
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  262. @Johnny789
    The most striking women that I've ever seen in person are/were NBA groupies.

    Baseball wives are a trip, too.

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  263. @The Anti-Gnostic
    I'm predicting some fallout from the Syrian conflict (which Bashar's Alawite-dominated regime appears to be winning) will be Syrians, Lebanese and Jordanians distancing themselves from "Arab."

    You can read about the history of Ba'athism and compare it to the modern tendency of Iberian Mexicans to appropriate aboriginal American identity, like iSteve's favorite calendar girl for Latino identity politics, Xochitl Hinojosa (on the left):

    http://www.mywedding.com/kevinlovesscarlett/images/28664_10100221108513640_7943127_60940858_5144828_n.jpg

    Here's a more recent pic:

    http://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2016_30/1639291/160726_amandarenteria_8a4442e4b92ceb0be3e52ad241c86dc8.nbcnews-ux-2880-1000.jpg

    Any way, Ba'athism comes across as being an earnest effort by smart, Orthodox Christian Marxists to forge a pan-Arabic identity. However, I think the Levantine Arab-speakers will come out of this as distinctly anti-Gulf Arab.

    Some people I went to law school with who were active in the Latino Law Students’ Association or Whatever and were keen to identify as mestizoid victims despite being wealthy and phenotypically (if not genotypically) pretty much entirely European, and many quite easy on the eyes to boot (i.e., they were treated like attractive white people their entire lives), were doing this stuff decades ago. I recall maybe two actual mestizo people in the organisation, and even they favoured their Caucasian ancestors’ phenotype, just as Hayek does.

    These are the kinds of struggles these people have, now that they have finished soaking up all the “affirmative action” to go to the front of the line for jobs and education for being ostensibly oppressed:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/veegirl1979/status/2163423577

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  264. AP says:
    @Jefferson
    "The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry."

    Let's deal with facts and not hypotheticals. The average Lebanese is only 5 percent European which means thr Lebanese are not the gold standard of Europeaness. Your average Dominican has more European ancestry than the Lebanese.

    "Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin."

    So the least European Italians are still way more genetically European than any Lebanese person, since nobody with 2 Lebanese parents would ever test only 15 percent MENA ancestry on AncestryByDNA and 23AndMe.

    "Also, reviewing the percentages, “10% Asia Minor” probably means Indo-European – like Kurds or Armenians, indigenous people to Asia minor."

    Armenians and Kurds are not Europeans.

    "The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to “Euroepanness.”

    You said people who are part of Christianity have a lot culturally in common with Europeans.

    “The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.”

    Let’s deal with facts and not hypotheticals. The average Lebanese is only 5 percent European which means thr Lebanese are not the gold standard of Europeaness.

    The discussion is about Lebanese Christians, specifically. We already now that Lebanese Christians are 2% Western European, other Lebanese are not. So it is likely that Lebanese Christians also have more southern European ancestry, as well.

    “Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.”

    So the least European Italians are still way more genetically European than any Lebanese person

    In slightly underestimated Middle-Eastern genetic contribution to Italy – it is about 20%, not 15%. The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry. So a Lebanese, being 20% European, is 1/4 as purely European as an Italian. He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one.

    since nobody with 2 Lebanese parents would ever test only 15 percent MENA ancestry on AncestryByDNA and 23AndMe.

    Probably not. However, your original figures were misinterpreted. Here are detailed figures for various peoples in Europe and the Middle East:

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

    I, R1A and R1B are “European.” “G” is Caucasian/Indo-European (Armenian, Georgian, Greeks from Anatolia). These four groups are broadly European.

    “J” is Semitic, “T” is Middle Eastern/North African, “E” is North African (in the Middle East) and Balkan (in Europe), “L” is Middle-Eastern/Caucasian.

    Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern.

    Palestinians are about 13% European.

    Saudis are about 10% European.

    Yemenese are about 0% European.

    Interestingly, Jordanians are about 27% European. The place must have had a lot of Roman settlement.

    Armenians and Kurds are not Europeans.

    I guess in your world Greek Anatolians, who are in the same genetic group as Armenians and Kurds, are also not Europeans? About 5-10 percent of Western Europeans have the ancestry primarily associated with Armenians and Kurds.

    If you define “European” strictly on geographic terms than Americans aren’t Europeans either. If in terms of origin – most ancestors of modern Europeans arrived in Europe during the Bronze Age. The “Armenian” and “Kurdish” types are ones who stayed behind or moved to the ME rather than to Europe during the migrations.

    “The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to “Euroepanness.”

    You said people who are part of Christianity have a lot culturally in common with Europeans.

    They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?"

    Arabs are different enough in phenotype that they look quite different from a typical White American who is a German/English/Scottish/Irish mix.

    I have yet to see an Arab cab driver who can pass for a WASP.

    An Iranian in Los Angeles for example has a higher chance of being mistaken for a Mexican or an Armenian than be mistaken for a WASP.

    "The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry."

    I am a Mediterranean European and my 23AndMe results said I am 100 percent European. I got 6 percent Ashkenazi but they lumped that into the European catagory rather than Middle Eastern. But even if you exclude Ashkenazi that is still 94 percent European. I guarantee zero percent of Lebanon's population would score 94 percent European ancestry on a DNA test, let alone 100 percent European ancestry.

    "Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern."

    The Lebanese are 5 percent European and 95 percent Middle Eastern.

    "He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one."

    If you don't draw the majority of your ancestry back to Europe which is the gold standard of Whiteness than you are not White period. There is a reason why there are ZERO articles about the unbearable Whiteness of The Middle East and North Africa. There is a reason why the Left supports mass MENA immigration into Western nations while the Right doesn't. MENAs are not seen as White enough by both sides of the political aisle. For pro and con reasons both sides of the political aisle see mass MENA immigration as the Browning of North America and Europe.

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  265. syonredux says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Long-leggedness is an attribute of sexiness in both sexes. Long legs imply a healthy, well-fed childhood, which implies a healthy, well-fed adulthood, which in turn implies healthy, well-fed children.

    Junior high school is when girls who go through puberty relatively early stop growing. Girls who go through puberty later keep growing. That's why tall models and actresses all tell interviewers that they were tomboys and weren't pretty when they were young -- for a year or so in adolescence they were behind in the puberty race.

    But it doesn't make much difference outside of junior high school.

    Junior high school is when girls who go through puberty relatively early stop growing. Girls who go through puberty later keep growing. That’s why tall models and actresses all tell interviewers that they were tomboys and weren’t pretty when they were young — for a year or so in adolescence they were behind in the puberty race.

    Indeed. That’s one of the reasons why I tend to doubt Salma’s anecdote:

    “I was getting tested a lot because everybody was older and I was the skinny tomboy…

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/09/salma-hayek-boobs_n_1140150.html

    She simply doesn’t have that kind of body. Now, if, say, Paulina Porizkova started talking about how she was a skinny, all-knees-and-elbows tomboy in early adolescence, that would strike me as quite plausible.

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  266. syonredux says:
    @guest
    "Do you want your children to be tall or short?"

    That's not the central question of eugenics, thank God. If it were, we'd be breeding a race of tall men, okay. But what does it profit a man to have all the height in the world if he's got nothing but ugly women to pursue?

    “Do you want your children to be tall or short?”

    That’s not the central question of eugenics, thank God.

    Dunno. Never met anyone who wants to have short kids….

    If it were, we’d be breeding a race of tall men, okay. But what does it profit a man to have all the height in the world if he’s got nothing but ugly women to pursue?

    Dunno. The girls in the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue look pretty good to me:

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  267. syonredux says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically.
     
    Pinault already has children with a French ex-wife (according to Wikipedia). Assuming he’s straight and is looking for companionship in a mate, and not mere pump-dump-and-support Lebensborn vessels (which in that case should be fit young lasses), I give you this visual comparison: Linda Evangelista 2016 (top row!) vs. Salma Hayek 2016.

    Even though Hayek has a comically stumpy figure, she blows away Evangelista in the Cialis sweepstakes. Pinault himself is no Adonis. Here’s the little dude with Hayek and Six Flags’ Mr. Six, who is 6’3”.

    Pinault already has children with a French ex-wife (according to Wikipedia). Assuming he’s straight and is looking for companionship in a mate, and not mere pump-dump-and-support Lebensborn vessels (which in that case should be fit young lasses), I give you this visual comparison: Linda Evangelista 2016 (top row!) vs. Salma Hayek 2016.

    Evangelista’s decadent lifestyle has taken its toll…..

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  268. syonredux says:
    @Anonymous
    Now, if this had been Lucy Liu rather than Salma Hayek, I wonder if there'd be as much hostility from the Peanut Gallery here, given how the short stature of Asians somehow gets a pass here (maybe because so many Asian women - although not Ms. Liu - look like 12 year old boys, bringing out the latent Gary Glitter that lurks in most alt-righters...)

    Now, if this had been Lucy Liu rather than Salma Hayek, I wonder if there’d be as much hostility from the Peanut Gallery here, given how the short stature of Asians somehow gets a pass here

    Let’s see, using the Trumpometer on Lucy Liu:

    Height: 5ft 1.75in (according to http://www.celebheights.com/)

    Ancestry: East Asian

    So, no, Lucy Liu loses out to chicks who are tall and European.

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  269. syonredux says:
    @Hare Krishna
    There are other names for a man who prefers women who looks like androgynous adolescents besides "cuck". Trapped in the closet?

    There are other names for a man who prefers women who looks like androgynous adolescents besides “cuck”. Trapped in the closet?

    Dear fellow, the cuck designation refers to the fact that Salma is a Mexican-Arab, not to the fact that she is vertically challenged.

    Trump reproduces only with Europeans. Lesser breeds need not apply.

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  270. @Anonymous
    Now, if this had been Lucy Liu rather than Salma Hayek, I wonder if there'd be as much hostility from the Peanut Gallery here, given how the short stature of Asians somehow gets a pass here (maybe because so many Asian women - although not Ms. Liu - look like 12 year old boys, bringing out the latent Gary Glitter that lurks in most alt-righters...)

    Asian women (along with black women) don’t count. Only Caucasian/European women are considered beautiful. Asian women are busy whitening their skin, getting eyelid surgery and lightening their hair. If Asian women are so desired, why do they imitate white women? Black women do the same thing. Their hair weaves are always straight hair, they have their noses fixed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Asian women (along with black women) don’t count. Only Caucasian/European women are considered beautiful."

    If only White women are considered beautiful in the eyes of the male race who is impregnating all of the Asian women and Black women? Why aren't all of them single childless cat ladies? Why do they outbreed White women?

    "Asian women are busy whitening their skin, getting eyelid surgery and lightening their hair."

    And plenty of brunette Caucasoid women are also busy lightening their hair. For example remember the film The Blind Side? You have to be a retard to believe Sandra Bullock is a natural blonde. Sandra Bullock's natural hair color is the one you see in A Time To Kill starring Matthew McConaughey and Samuel L. Jackson.
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  271. @Michelle
    LGBT, one of my exes said when the usage first came out that it sounded like a hell of a sandwich! If these chicks care so much about other chicks why have they subverted every special protection that women have ever enjoyed? They want to put us on the front lines in battle! Go figure! They are aiming to get women drafted.

    It seems to me, that feminists are working on behalf of men. The cure for male irresponsibility was more irresponsibility. Abortion, great for men. Birth control, great for men. Women working (and still dong the lions' share of taking care of the kids and household) great for men. Getting the milk without buying the cow, great for men. Shoving women out of the way to the lifeboats on the next cruise ship disaster, great for men! Every womyn for its/theirself, thanks feminists! Hell, the (cows) demanded the right to get lung cancer. You've come a long way baby!

    A custodian I know once told me that back when he was a ne'er do well ( aka Crack Head) whenever he and his crew of druggies were standing on the street corner and a woman would walk by, everyone would hide their brown bagged liquor bottles. Gone are the days!

    Michelle,

    Feminists hate women, but they hate God even more. See, he’s the one who made them born women. They wish they had been born men.

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  272. Spartan says:

    The height of self-parody. If you ever think the Alt-Right argot that reduces all SJW ‘thought’ and speech to “good feelz” and “bad feelz” is overly simplistic, reading this article is a useful corrective.

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  273. Jefferson says:
    @attilathehen
    Asian women (along with black women) don't count. Only Caucasian/European women are considered beautiful. Asian women are busy whitening their skin, getting eyelid surgery and lightening their hair. If Asian women are so desired, why do they imitate white women? Black women do the same thing. Their hair weaves are always straight hair, they have their noses fixed.

    “Asian women (along with black women) don’t count. Only Caucasian/European women are considered beautiful.”

    If only White women are considered beautiful in the eyes of the male race who is impregnating all of the Asian women and Black women? Why aren’t all of them single childless cat ladies? Why do they outbreed White women?

    “Asian women are busy whitening their skin, getting eyelid surgery and lightening their hair.”

    And plenty of brunette Caucasoid women are also busy lightening their hair. For example remember the film The Blind Side? You have to be a retard to believe Sandra Bullock is a natural blonde. Sandra Bullock’s natural hair color is the one you see in A Time To Kill starring Matthew McConaughey and Samuel L. Jackson.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Njguy73

    For example remember the film The Blind Side? You have to be a retard to believe Sandra Bullock is a natural blonde.
     
    She was playing a real-life blonde woman. Just like Charlize Theron isn't naturally fat and snaggle-toothed.

    Just never go full fugly. Halle Berry,Monster's Ball? Gwyneth Paltrow, Shakespeare In Love? Still showed the breasts. Salma Hayek, 2002, Frida? Went full fugly, went home empty-handed.

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  274. Jefferson says:
    @AP

    “The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.”

    Let’s deal with facts and not hypotheticals. The average Lebanese is only 5 percent European which means thr Lebanese are not the gold standard of Europeaness.
     
    The discussion is about Lebanese Christians, specifically. We already now that Lebanese Christians are 2% Western European, other Lebanese are not. So it is likely that Lebanese Christians also have more southern European ancestry, as well.

    “Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.”

    So the least European Italians are still way more genetically European than any Lebanese person
     
    In slightly underestimated Middle-Eastern genetic contribution to Italy - it is about 20%, not 15%. The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry. So a Lebanese, being 20% European, is 1/4 as purely European as an Italian. He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one.

    since nobody with 2 Lebanese parents would ever test only 15 percent MENA ancestry on AncestryByDNA and 23AndMe.
     
    Probably not. However, your original figures were misinterpreted. Here are detailed figures for various peoples in Europe and the Middle East:

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

    I, R1A and R1B are "European." "G" is Caucasian/Indo-European (Armenian, Georgian, Greeks from Anatolia). These four groups are broadly European.

    "J" is Semitic, "T" is Middle Eastern/North African, "E" is North African (in the Middle East) and Balkan (in Europe), "L" is Middle-Eastern/Caucasian.

    Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern.

    Palestinians are about 13% European.

    Saudis are about 10% European.

    Yemenese are about 0% European.

    Interestingly, Jordanians are about 27% European. The place must have had a lot of Roman settlement.

    Armenians and Kurds are not Europeans.
     
    I guess in your world Greek Anatolians, who are in the same genetic group as Armenians and Kurds, are also not Europeans? About 5-10 percent of Western Europeans have the ancestry primarily associated with Armenians and Kurds.

    If you define "European" strictly on geographic terms than Americans aren't Europeans either. If in terms of origin - most ancestors of modern Europeans arrived in Europe during the Bronze Age. The "Armenian" and "Kurdish" types are ones who stayed behind or moved to the ME rather than to Europe during the migrations.

    “The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to “Euroepanness.”

    You said people who are part of Christianity have a lot culturally in common with Europeans.
     
    They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?

    “They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?”

    Arabs are different enough in phenotype that they look quite different from a typical White American who is a German/English/Scottish/Irish mix.

    I have yet to see an Arab cab driver who can pass for a WASP.

    An Iranian in Los Angeles for example has a higher chance of being mistaken for a Mexican or an Armenian than be mistaken for a WASP.

    “The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry.”

    I am a Mediterranean European and my 23AndMe results said I am 100 percent European. I got 6 percent Ashkenazi but they lumped that into the European catagory rather than Middle Eastern. But even if you exclude Ashkenazi that is still 94 percent European. I guarantee zero percent of Lebanon’s population would score 94 percent European ancestry on a DNA test, let alone 100 percent European ancestry.

    “Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern.”

    The Lebanese are 5 percent European and 95 percent Middle Eastern.

    “He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one.”

    If you don’t draw the majority of your ancestry back to Europe which is the gold standard of Whiteness than you are not White period. There is a reason why there are ZERO articles about the unbearable Whiteness of The Middle East and North Africa. There is a reason why the Left supports mass MENA immigration into Western nations while the Right doesn’t. MENAs are not seen as White enough by both sides of the political aisle. For pro and con reasons both sides of the political aisle see mass MENA immigration as the Browning of North America and Europe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    “They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?”

    Arabs are different enough in phenotype that they look quite different from a typical White American who is a German/English/Scottish/Irish mix.
     

    Are you now defining European as northwestern European?

    Because in terms of phenotype a Greek looks more like an Arab than like a Irishman. Is a Greek not a European, according to you?

    “The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry.”


    “Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern.”

    The Lebanese are 5 percent European and 95 percent Middle Eastern.
     

    Wrong.

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

    Region/Haplogroup I R1a R1b G J2 J1 E T L Q N Others

    Lebanon 5 2.5 8 6.5 26 20 17.5 5 5 2 0 2.5

    I, R1a, R1b, and G (the first four) are European. It's about 20% in the Lebanese.

    23andme goes by geographic frequency, not origin. So if a group of Asians migrated to Europe but left few relatives in Asia, they would be classified as "European." Or Ashkenazi Jews, who are actually about 50% European and 50% Semitic, get classified as "European" on 23andme, because they are most often from Europe. For example, my wife is 1/8 Asian, from an obscure group that settled in European Russia, and 23and me says she is 100% European. I know a blonde, blue-eyed Transylvanian Saxon who got counted as almost completely "Balkan."

    Italians are about 20% MENA, even though if their particular MENA strains are found more often in Europe than in the middle east 23andme might count them as 100% European.


    “He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one.”

    If you don’t draw the majority of your ancestry back to Europe which is the gold standard of Whiteness than you are not White period.
     

    You use "white" as some sort of social construct, rather than scientifically, as a colloquial term for Caucasian. According to you, Irish and German are white, Armenians (and therefore Greeks) not white. It reminds me of New Englanders traditionally not classifying the Portuguese as white. Of course, one can further classify "Caucasians" as Europeans vs. Semites. But in that case, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Kurds, etc. belong in the European category, despite them having some Semitic admixture.

    Do you claim that this Kurdish girl is not European?

    https://kurdistanland.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/kurdish-children.jpg

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  275. Hi Jefferson, it’s been a while since we corresponded. First your comment no. 221. According to Wiki Brazil is about 52% non-white. When they say “brown” that means a person with black ancestry. I’ve read on other websites that it’s actually 60%, but nonetheless, Brazil is majority black (from light to dark skin). Brazil’s higher human development is in the white southern area where most of the whites live. Eastern and Balkan countries are still a mess from the collapse of Communism in 1992, the Balkan Wars, and now the Ukrainian-Crimean problems. Brazil is an inferior nation compared to Eastern Europe. The actor Matthew McConaughey is married to a light-skinned black Brazilian. The model Adriana Lima a light-skinned black. They are classified as black pardos.

    Now to comment 274. Asian and black women are attractive to Asian and black men. But even among Asian/black men, lighter skin and Caucasian features are preferred. Hence, the surgeries, dying, lightening, etc. Now if a Caucasoid woman wants to lighten (or darken) her hair, no biggie. There is light/dark hair among the Caucasoids. But I don’t see any Caucasian women widening and flattening their noses, chemically darkening their skins, or getting eye surgery to slant their eyes. Well, only one, the degenerate Racheal Dolezal.

    Who are you? I remember in another one of you comments you said that “English blacks” are a good stock that can intermarry and assimilate to the white English. You also stated another time that you don’t mind living among blacks in the USA. You are also a philosemite. You are all over the DNA map.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Adriana Lima a light-skinned black"

    Blue eyed Brazilian supermodel Adriana Lima would not be seen as Black in a single Sub Saharan African country. Adriana Lima is about as "Black" as Paris Jackson.

    Adriana Lima
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/7b/3d/ca/7b3dcaecb4ab4534b756cde93a2a572d.jpg

    Sub Saharan Africans
    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wYOj7PWWE94/0.jpg

    "When they say “brown” that means a person with black ancestry."

    Brown is a way more accurate description than Black to describe a Brazilian who for example is 70 percent European and the remaining 30 percent is Amerindian and African. It is definitely not comparible to the average Black American who is a whopping 80 percent African and only 20 percent European.

    And if you are going to use the one drop rule for Brazilians you might as well use the one drop rule for all Hispanics as well. Every Latin American country has African DNA, even Mexico.
    http://rootsrevealed.blogspot.com/2013/06/african-americans-and-mexicans-are_9.html?m=1

    The only Spanish speaking country on the planet that is completely free of Negro DNA is Spain.
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  276. Njguy73 says:
    @Svigor
    How come nobody ever recovers memories of past lives as dullards, or people who died rotting in dungeons, or lepers?

    I saw Bull Durham, too.

    Annie Savoy: I think probably with my love of four-legged creatures and hooves and everything, that in another lifetime I was probably Catherine the Great, or Francis of Assisi. I’m not sure which one. What do you think?
    Crash Davis: How come in former lifetimes, everybody is someone famous?
    [Annie and Crash pause, then both laugh]
    Crash Davis: I mean,
    [still laughing]
    Crash Davis: how come nobody ever says they were Joe Schmo?
    Annie Savoy: [still laughing] Because it doesn’t work that way, you fool!

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  277. Njguy73 says:
    @Jefferson
    "Asian women (along with black women) don’t count. Only Caucasian/European women are considered beautiful."

    If only White women are considered beautiful in the eyes of the male race who is impregnating all of the Asian women and Black women? Why aren't all of them single childless cat ladies? Why do they outbreed White women?

    "Asian women are busy whitening their skin, getting eyelid surgery and lightening their hair."

    And plenty of brunette Caucasoid women are also busy lightening their hair. For example remember the film The Blind Side? You have to be a retard to believe Sandra Bullock is a natural blonde. Sandra Bullock's natural hair color is the one you see in A Time To Kill starring Matthew McConaughey and Samuel L. Jackson.

    For example remember the film The Blind Side? You have to be a retard to believe Sandra Bullock is a natural blonde.

    She was playing a real-life blonde woman. Just like Charlize Theron isn’t naturally fat and snaggle-toothed.

    Just never go full fugly. Halle Berry,Monster’s Ball? Gwyneth Paltrow, Shakespeare In Love? Still showed the breasts. Salma Hayek, 2002, Frida? Went full fugly, went home empty-handed.

    Read More
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  278. Jefferson says:
    @attilathehen
    Hi Jefferson, it's been a while since we corresponded. First your comment no. 221. According to Wiki Brazil is about 52% non-white. When they say "brown" that means a person with black ancestry. I've read on other websites that it's actually 60%, but nonetheless, Brazil is majority black (from light to dark skin). Brazil's higher human development is in the white southern area where most of the whites live. Eastern and Balkan countries are still a mess from the collapse of Communism in 1992, the Balkan Wars, and now the Ukrainian-Crimean problems. Brazil is an inferior nation compared to Eastern Europe. The actor Matthew McConaughey is married to a light-skinned black Brazilian. The model Adriana Lima a light-skinned black. They are classified as black pardos.

    Now to comment 274. Asian and black women are attractive to Asian and black men. But even among Asian/black men, lighter skin and Caucasian features are preferred. Hence, the surgeries, dying, lightening, etc. Now if a Caucasoid woman wants to lighten (or darken) her hair, no biggie. There is light/dark hair among the Caucasoids. But I don't see any Caucasian women widening and flattening their noses, chemically darkening their skins, or getting eye surgery to slant their eyes. Well, only one, the degenerate Racheal Dolezal.

    Who are you? I remember in another one of you comments you said that "English blacks" are a good stock that can intermarry and assimilate to the white English. You also stated another time that you don't mind living among blacks in the USA. You are also a philosemite. You are all over the DNA map.

    “Adriana Lima a light-skinned black”

    Blue eyed Brazilian supermodel Adriana Lima would not be seen as Black in a single Sub Saharan African country. Adriana Lima is about as “Black” as Paris Jackson.

    Adriana Lima

    Sub Saharan Africans

    “When they say “brown” that means a person with black ancestry.”

    Brown is a way more accurate description than Black to describe a Brazilian who for example is 70 percent European and the remaining 30 percent is Amerindian and African. It is definitely not comparible to the average Black American who is a whopping 80 percent African and only 20 percent European.

    And if you are going to use the one drop rule for Brazilians you might as well use the one drop rule for all Hispanics as well. Every Latin American country has African DNA, even Mexico.

    http://rootsrevealed.blogspot.com/2013/06/african-americans-and-mexicans-are_9.html?m=1

    The only Spanish speaking country on the planet that is completely free of Negro DNA is Spain.

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    • Replies: @attilathehen
    Adriana Lima has been bleached. I saw a picture of her when she was 18. She has straightened her hair. I saw a picture of her family. Lots of dark blacks.

    Heidi Klum is German but had 3 black kids. She has 1 white kid. She is compromised and her 3 kids are black.

    Latin America is very heterogenous. You can get pure white DNA from many parts.

    I think your awareness of how much Jews marry blacks and Asians has "colored" your perspective.

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  279. AP says:
    @Jefferson
    "They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?"

    Arabs are different enough in phenotype that they look quite different from a typical White American who is a German/English/Scottish/Irish mix.

    I have yet to see an Arab cab driver who can pass for a WASP.

    An Iranian in Los Angeles for example has a higher chance of being mistaken for a Mexican or an Armenian than be mistaken for a WASP.

    "The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry."

    I am a Mediterranean European and my 23AndMe results said I am 100 percent European. I got 6 percent Ashkenazi but they lumped that into the European catagory rather than Middle Eastern. But even if you exclude Ashkenazi that is still 94 percent European. I guarantee zero percent of Lebanon's population would score 94 percent European ancestry on a DNA test, let alone 100 percent European ancestry.

    "Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern."

    The Lebanese are 5 percent European and 95 percent Middle Eastern.

    "He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one."

    If you don't draw the majority of your ancestry back to Europe which is the gold standard of Whiteness than you are not White period. There is a reason why there are ZERO articles about the unbearable Whiteness of The Middle East and North Africa. There is a reason why the Left supports mass MENA immigration into Western nations while the Right doesn't. MENAs are not seen as White enough by both sides of the political aisle. For pro and con reasons both sides of the political aisle see mass MENA immigration as the Browning of North America and Europe.

    “They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?”

    Arabs are different enough in phenotype that they look quite different from a typical White American who is a German/English/Scottish/Irish mix.

    Are you now defining European as northwestern European?

    Because in terms of phenotype a Greek looks more like an Arab than like a Irishman. Is a Greek not a European, according to you?

    “The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry.”

    “Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern.”

    The Lebanese are 5 percent European and 95 percent Middle Eastern.

    Wrong.

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

    Region/Haplogroup I R1a R1b G J2 J1 E T L Q N Others

    Lebanon 5 2.5 8 6.5 26 20 17.5 5 5 2 0 2.5

    I, R1a, R1b, and G (the first four) are European. It’s about 20% in the Lebanese.

    23andme goes by geographic frequency, not origin. So if a group of Asians migrated to Europe but left few relatives in Asia, they would be classified as “European.” Or Ashkenazi Jews, who are actually about 50% European and 50% Semitic, get classified as “European” on 23andme, because they are most often from Europe. For example, my wife is 1/8 Asian, from an obscure group that settled in European Russia, and 23and me says she is 100% European. I know a blonde, blue-eyed Transylvanian Saxon who got counted as almost completely “Balkan.”

    Italians are about 20% MENA, even though if their particular MENA strains are found more often in Europe than in the middle east 23andme might count them as 100% European.

    “He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one.”

    If you don’t draw the majority of your ancestry back to Europe which is the gold standard of Whiteness than you are not White period.

    You use “white” as some sort of social construct, rather than scientifically, as a colloquial term for Caucasian. According to you, Irish and German are white, Armenians (and therefore Greeks) not white. It reminds me of New Englanders traditionally not classifying the Portuguese as white. Of course, one can further classify “Caucasians” as Europeans vs. Semites. But in that case, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Kurds, etc. belong in the European category, despite them having some Semitic admixture.

    Do you claim that this Kurdish girl is not European?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    On "Adam 12" 50 years ago, the LAPD used the term Caucasian to get around hairsplitting over whether they were looking for a Greek or a Lebanese.
    , @Jefferson
    "Wrong."

    No you are wrong.
    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

    'Do you claim that this Kurdish girl is not European?"

    You can also find the rare blond child in Yemen for example, does that mean Yemenis are a European ethnic group? The vast majority of Kurds are not blonde.

    "Of course, one can further classify “Caucasians” as Europeans vs. Semites. But in that case, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Kurds, etc. belong in the European category, despite them having some Semitic admixture."

    With the exception of Greeks, the groups you mentioned are not Europeans at all. They are either West Asians or Caucasus folks.

    Carleton Coon described Armenians as belonging to the Armenoid race.

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  280. @Jefferson
    "Adriana Lima a light-skinned black"

    Blue eyed Brazilian supermodel Adriana Lima would not be seen as Black in a single Sub Saharan African country. Adriana Lima is about as "Black" as Paris Jackson.

    Adriana Lima
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/7b/3d/ca/7b3dcaecb4ab4534b756cde93a2a572d.jpg

    Sub Saharan Africans
    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wYOj7PWWE94/0.jpg

    "When they say “brown” that means a person with black ancestry."

    Brown is a way more accurate description than Black to describe a Brazilian who for example is 70 percent European and the remaining 30 percent is Amerindian and African. It is definitely not comparible to the average Black American who is a whopping 80 percent African and only 20 percent European.

    And if you are going to use the one drop rule for Brazilians you might as well use the one drop rule for all Hispanics as well. Every Latin American country has African DNA, even Mexico.
    http://rootsrevealed.blogspot.com/2013/06/african-americans-and-mexicans-are_9.html?m=1

    The only Spanish speaking country on the planet that is completely free of Negro DNA is Spain.

    Adriana Lima has been bleached. I saw a picture of her when she was 18. She has straightened her hair. I saw a picture of her family. Lots of dark blacks.

    Heidi Klum is German but had 3 black kids. She has 1 white kid. She is compromised and her 3 kids are black.

    Latin America is very heterogenous. You can get pure white DNA from many parts.

    I think your awareness of how much Jews marry blacks and Asians has “colored” your perspective.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    Adriana Lima has been bleached."

    No she hasn't, that's her natural complexion. You can look at all of her pictures on Google image and there is not a single picture of her where she looks like she would blend right in a crowd of Nigerians.

    The fact that you use Adriana Lima as an example of a so-called "Black" Brazilian means I can not take your definition of "Black" Brazilian seriously.

    , @Jefferson
    "Latin America is very heterogenous. You can get pure white DNA from many parts."

    I am talking about averages, not exceptions. There is not a single Latin American country where the average citizen has 100 percent European DNA. Do you know what average is? Is English your second language? Argentina is often touted as the "Whitest" country in Latin America even though the average Argentinian is 18 percent Amerindian.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentines#Genetic_research


    "I think your awareness of how much Jews marry blacks and Asians has “colored” your perspective."

    Iberian Conquistadors mixed with Negroids and Mongoloids way more than Jews ever did, hence why Latin America is way more racially mongrel than Israel.
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  281. @AP

    “They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?”

    Arabs are different enough in phenotype that they look quite different from a typical White American who is a German/English/Scottish/Irish mix.
     

    Are you now defining European as northwestern European?

    Because in terms of phenotype a Greek looks more like an Arab than like a Irishman. Is a Greek not a European, according to you?

    “The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry.”


    “Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern.”

    The Lebanese are 5 percent European and 95 percent Middle Eastern.
     

    Wrong.

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

    Region/Haplogroup I R1a R1b G J2 J1 E T L Q N Others

    Lebanon 5 2.5 8 6.5 26 20 17.5 5 5 2 0 2.5

    I, R1a, R1b, and G (the first four) are European. It's about 20% in the Lebanese.

    23andme goes by geographic frequency, not origin. So if a group of Asians migrated to Europe but left few relatives in Asia, they would be classified as "European." Or Ashkenazi Jews, who are actually about 50% European and 50% Semitic, get classified as "European" on 23andme, because they are most often from Europe. For example, my wife is 1/8 Asian, from an obscure group that settled in European Russia, and 23and me says she is 100% European. I know a blonde, blue-eyed Transylvanian Saxon who got counted as almost completely "Balkan."

    Italians are about 20% MENA, even though if their particular MENA strains are found more often in Europe than in the middle east 23andme might count them as 100% European.


    “He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one.”

    If you don’t draw the majority of your ancestry back to Europe which is the gold standard of Whiteness than you are not White period.
     

    You use "white" as some sort of social construct, rather than scientifically, as a colloquial term for Caucasian. According to you, Irish and German are white, Armenians (and therefore Greeks) not white. It reminds me of New Englanders traditionally not classifying the Portuguese as white. Of course, one can further classify "Caucasians" as Europeans vs. Semites. But in that case, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Kurds, etc. belong in the European category, despite them having some Semitic admixture.

    Do you claim that this Kurdish girl is not European?

    https://kurdistanland.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/kurdish-children.jpg

    On “Adam 12″ 50 years ago, the LAPD used the term Caucasian to get around hairsplitting over whether they were looking for a Greek or a Lebanese.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP
    When I was an undergrad in the Midwest, I had a friend who was from Azerbaijan (these people are Turkic-speaking Shiites who are genetically related to Georgians, Armenians, Turks, and Persians). When he got a driver's license, the clerk wasn't sure if he was Hispanic or not, and questioned whether he was Caucasian as he claimed.

    Azerbaijan is in the Caucuses mountains.

    "If I am not Caucasian, who is Caucasian?" he asked.
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  282. Johnny789 says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically.
     
    Pinault already has children with a French ex-wife (according to Wikipedia). Assuming he’s straight and is looking for companionship in a mate, and not mere pump-dump-and-support Lebensborn vessels (which in that case should be fit young lasses), I give you this visual comparison: Linda Evangelista 2016 (top row!) vs. Salma Hayek 2016.

    Even though Hayek has a comically stumpy figure, she blows away Evangelista in the Cialis sweepstakes. Pinault himself is no Adonis. Here’s the little dude with Hayek and Six Flags’ Mr. Six, who is 6’3”.

    Linda should never have grown her hair long is all I gotta say.

    Read More
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  283. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Jefferson
    "I’m pretty sure they’ve got at least a few natural blondes working in Mexican TV. There was one on Sabado Gigante who looked Scandinavian."

    I doubt it because the 2 main sources of Caucasoid immigration into Mexico is Spain and Lebanon, not exactly known for their adult natural blondeness.

    You doubt that there are a handful of natural blondes in all of Mexico, despite a non-trivial amount of German immigration to the country? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Mexicans

    Okay. You are quite the absolutist.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "You doubt that there are a handful of natural blondes in all of Mexico, despite a non-trivial amount of German immigration to the country? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Mexicans

    Okay. You are quite the absolutist."

    9 thousand Germans in a country of over 120 million people is extremely trivial.

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  284. Jefferson says:
    @attilathehen
    Adriana Lima has been bleached. I saw a picture of her when she was 18. She has straightened her hair. I saw a picture of her family. Lots of dark blacks.

    Heidi Klum is German but had 3 black kids. She has 1 white kid. She is compromised and her 3 kids are black.

    Latin America is very heterogenous. You can get pure white DNA from many parts.

    I think your awareness of how much Jews marry blacks and Asians has "colored" your perspective.

    Adriana Lima has been bleached.”

    No she hasn’t, that’s her natural complexion. You can look at all of her pictures on Google image and there is not a single picture of her where she looks like she would blend right in a crowd of Nigerians.

    The fact that you use Adriana Lima as an example of a so-called “Black” Brazilian means I can not take your definition of “Black” Brazilian seriously.

    Read More
    • Replies: @attilathehen
    I said she is a "light-skinned" black. Yes, she's lighter than Nigerians, but she is black. I saw pictures of her family and many relatives are dark blacks. Also, she knows that she's black. She is from northern Brazil where most Brazilian blacks live - Bahia. Latin America is either mestizo (Indian) or mulatto (black). Brazil is over 52% black.

    I'm not a "racial purist" as there are very few pure races. But you can most certainly categorize people by their families. And you're pretty much going to get it right regardless of skin tones.

    Jennifer Lopez is light-skinned black Puerto Rican. She knows she's black.

    Jews are very mixed with blacks and Asians. Here is a youtube describing Israel. Ignore the title.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY0FOPa-j-E

    You said Margaret Thatcher's daughter was not white because she was 25% North African. Carol Thatcher is white, Adriana Lima is not white.

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  285. Jefferson says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    You doubt that there are a handful of natural blondes in all of Mexico, despite a non-trivial amount of German immigration to the country? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Mexicans

    Okay. You are quite the absolutist.

    “You doubt that there are a handful of natural blondes in all of Mexico, despite a non-trivial amount of German immigration to the country? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Mexicans

    Okay. You are quite the absolutist.”

    9 thousand Germans in a country of over 120 million people is extremely trivial.

    Read More
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  286. Jefferson says:
    @attilathehen
    Adriana Lima has been bleached. I saw a picture of her when she was 18. She has straightened her hair. I saw a picture of her family. Lots of dark blacks.

    Heidi Klum is German but had 3 black kids. She has 1 white kid. She is compromised and her 3 kids are black.

    Latin America is very heterogenous. You can get pure white DNA from many parts.

    I think your awareness of how much Jews marry blacks and Asians has "colored" your perspective.

    “Latin America is very heterogenous. You can get pure white DNA from many parts.”

    I am talking about averages, not exceptions. There is not a single Latin American country where the average citizen has 100 percent European DNA. Do you know what average is? Is English your second language? Argentina is often touted as the “Whitest” country in Latin America even though the average Argentinian is 18 percent Amerindian.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentines#Genetic_research

    “I think your awareness of how much Jews marry blacks and Asians has “colored” your perspective.”

    Iberian Conquistadors mixed with Negroids and Mongoloids way more than Jews ever did, hence why Latin America is way more racially mongrel than Israel.

    Read More
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  287. Jefferson says:
    @AP

    “They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?”

    Arabs are different enough in phenotype that they look quite different from a typical White American who is a German/English/Scottish/Irish mix.
     

    Are you now defining European as northwestern European?

    Because in terms of phenotype a Greek looks more like an Arab than like a Irishman. Is a Greek not a European, according to you?

    “The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry.”


    “Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern.”

    The Lebanese are 5 percent European and 95 percent Middle Eastern.
     

    Wrong.

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

    Region/Haplogroup I R1a R1b G J2 J1 E T L Q N Others

    Lebanon 5 2.5 8 6.5 26 20 17.5 5 5 2 0 2.5

    I, R1a, R1b, and G (the first four) are European. It's about 20% in the Lebanese.

    23andme goes by geographic frequency, not origin. So if a group of Asians migrated to Europe but left few relatives in Asia, they would be classified as "European." Or Ashkenazi Jews, who are actually about 50% European and 50% Semitic, get classified as "European" on 23andme, because they are most often from Europe. For example, my wife is 1/8 Asian, from an obscure group that settled in European Russia, and 23and me says she is 100% European. I know a blonde, blue-eyed Transylvanian Saxon who got counted as almost completely "Balkan."

    Italians are about 20% MENA, even though if their particular MENA strains are found more often in Europe than in the middle east 23andme might count them as 100% European.


    “He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one.”

    If you don’t draw the majority of your ancestry back to Europe which is the gold standard of Whiteness than you are not White period.
     

    You use "white" as some sort of social construct, rather than scientifically, as a colloquial term for Caucasian. According to you, Irish and German are white, Armenians (and therefore Greeks) not white. It reminds me of New Englanders traditionally not classifying the Portuguese as white. Of course, one can further classify "Caucasians" as Europeans vs. Semites. But in that case, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Kurds, etc. belong in the European category, despite them having some Semitic admixture.

    Do you claim that this Kurdish girl is not European?

    https://kurdistanland.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/kurdish-children.jpg

    “Wrong.”

    No you are wrong.

    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

    ‘Do you claim that this Kurdish girl is not European?”

    You can also find the rare blond child in Yemen for example, does that mean Yemenis are a European ethnic group? The vast majority of Kurds are not blonde.

    “Of course, one can further classify “Caucasians” as Europeans vs. Semites. But in that case, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Kurds, etc. belong in the European category, despite them having some Semitic admixture.”

    With the exception of Greeks, the groups you mentioned are not Europeans at all. They are either West Asians or Caucasus folks.

    Carleton Coon described Armenians as belonging to the Armenoid race.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    No you are wrong.
    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/


     

    You once again misinterpreted what you read. I posted data on genotype - your numbers are simply geographic origin. The two are not the same - as I pointed out to you, there are cases of Europeans with geographic origins in Asia, and of Asians who are from Europe. Kurds, Armenians, Georgians are examples of Europeans from Asia (the Europe-Asia border goes through Georgia).

    During the bronze age and earlier, people we now know as Europeans expanded from their original homeland in Asia and spread all over the place. Europe was sparsely populated, the natives (who apparently were related to modern Asians, with strong Neanderthal admixture) were swamped and destroyed, so Europe became basically 100% what we would consider European. But some of these "Europeans" stayed in Asia, or migrated to other parts of Asia. In many cases they were absorbed but there are people such as in the Caucuses or isolated in mountainous areas as far east as Pakistan who retain their "European" genotypes. In the case of the shamanistic and often blonde, blue-eyed Kalash people of Pakistan who practice a sort of primitive tribal Hinduism, they are not at all culturally "European" but they are genetically so.
    In the case of Christian Armenians or Georgians - if they are not European, than neither are Greeks.

    Googleimage "Kalash people" and you will get a good glimpse of what the ancient invaders of southern Asia probably looked like.


    You can also find the rare blond child in Yemen for example, does that mean Yemenis are a European ethnic group?
     
    The blonde "Yemeni" children that googleimage produced were often mislabelled Kalashi or other non-Yemenis.

    Blonde hair, blue eyes, and/or European facial features are not that rare among Kurds (one reason why Arab ISIS fighters like them as sex slaves). To be sure, Kurds have over the centuries gotten some Arabic admixture but they are basically European, and the more isolated and mountainous their origins, the more European they look.

    Here are Yemeni girls in native clothes. Yemen is 0% European in terms of genetics:

    https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2567/4204117418_0ca26f06c7_b.jpg

    Here are Kurdish girls in native costume:

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/dressed-for-festivities-kurdish-girls-walk-to-a-countryside-picnic-picture-id755899

    At least 5 of these wouldn't look out of place in Italy or Greece. Very different from Semitic Yemenis.


    Carleton Coon described Armenians as belonging to the Armenoid race.
     
    He did. He described them as a sub-type of the Caucasian race and very close to another subtype, the Dinaric race (the people of Greece and Italy).
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  288. AP says:
    @Jefferson
    "Wrong."

    No you are wrong.
    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

    'Do you claim that this Kurdish girl is not European?"

    You can also find the rare blond child in Yemen for example, does that mean Yemenis are a European ethnic group? The vast majority of Kurds are not blonde.

    "Of course, one can further classify “Caucasians” as Europeans vs. Semites. But in that case, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Kurds, etc. belong in the European category, despite them having some Semitic admixture."

    With the exception of Greeks, the groups you mentioned are not Europeans at all. They are either West Asians or Caucasus folks.

    Carleton Coon described Armenians as belonging to the Armenoid race.

    No you are wrong.

    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

    You once again misinterpreted what you read. I posted data on genotype – your numbers are simply geographic origin. The two are not the same – as I pointed out to you, there are cases of Europeans with geographic origins in Asia, and of Asians who are from Europe. Kurds, Armenians, Georgians are examples of Europeans from Asia (the Europe-Asia border goes through Georgia).

    During the bronze age and earlier, people we now know as Europeans expanded from their original homeland in Asia and spread all over the place. Europe was sparsely populated, the natives (who apparently were related to modern Asians, with strong Neanderthal admixture) were swamped and destroyed, so Europe became basically 100% what we would consider European. But some of these “Europeans” stayed in Asia, or migrated to other parts of Asia. In many cases they were absorbed but there are people such as in the Caucuses or isolated in mountainous areas as far east as Pakistan who retain their “European” genotypes. In the case of the shamanistic and often blonde, blue-eyed Kalash people of Pakistan who practice a sort of primitive tribal Hinduism, they are not at all culturally “European” but they are genetically so.
    In the case of Christian Armenians or Georgians – if they are not European, than neither are Greeks.

    Googleimage “Kalash people” and you will get a good glimpse of what the ancient invaders of southern Asia probably looked like.

    You can also find the rare blond child in Yemen for example, does that mean Yemenis are a European ethnic group?

    The blonde “Yemeni” children that googleimage produced were often mislabelled Kalashi or other non-Yemenis.

    Blonde hair, blue eyes, and/or European facial features are not that rare among Kurds (one reason why Arab ISIS fighters like them as sex slaves). To be sure, Kurds have over the centuries gotten some Arabic admixture but they are basically European, and the more isolated and mountainous their origins, the more European they look.

    Here are Yemeni girls in native clothes. Yemen is 0% European in terms of genetics:

    Here are Kurdish girls in native costume:

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/dressed-for-festivities-kurdish-girls-walk-to-a-countryside-picnic-picture-id755899

    At least 5 of these wouldn’t look out of place in Italy or Greece. Very different from Semitic Yemenis.

    Carleton Coon described Armenians as belonging to the Armenoid race.

    He did. He described them as a sub-type of the Caucasian race and very close to another subtype, the Dinaric race (the people of Greece and Italy).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "At least 5 of these wouldn’t look out of place in Italy or Greece. Very different from Semitic Yemenis."

    Yemenis look very different from Mediterraneans because of their Sub Saharan African admixture, not because of their Semitic admixture. After all Jews play Italians in films and television shows all of the time, way more than WASPs do.
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  289. AP says:
    @Steve Sailer
    On "Adam 12" 50 years ago, the LAPD used the term Caucasian to get around hairsplitting over whether they were looking for a Greek or a Lebanese.

    When I was an undergrad in the Midwest, I had a friend who was from Azerbaijan (these people are Turkic-speaking Shiites who are genetically related to Georgians, Armenians, Turks, and Persians). When he got a driver’s license, the clerk wasn’t sure if he was Hispanic or not, and questioned whether he was Caucasian as he claimed.

    Azerbaijan is in the Caucuses mountains.

    “If I am not Caucasian, who is Caucasian?” he asked.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Joe Wambaugh LAPD novels always feature at least one character who is confusing to the standard white / black / Latino / Asian categories that cops are supposed to check on their paperwork
    , @Jefferson
    "When I was an undergrad in the Midwest, I had a friend who was from Azerbaijan (these people are Turkic-speaking Shiites who are genetically related to Georgians, Armenians, Turks, and Persians). When he got a driver’s license, the clerk wasn’t sure if he was Hispanic or not, and questioned whether he was Caucasian as he claimed.

    Azerbaijan is in the Caucuses mountains."

    I have also read about Iranians in Los Angeles being mistaken for Mexicans by WASPs.
    Re