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From my new column in Taki’s Magazine:

The Real Wakanda
by Steve Sailer

February 14, 2018

In our disillusioning modern world, where it’s too easy to look up what life is actually like in the remote real places that used to serve our desire for utopias, Americans now apparently feel the need to believe in CGI movie fictions, such as Wakanda, a technologically advanced isolationist kingdom in northeastern Africa featured in the upcoming Marvel comic-book blockbuster Black Panther.

Wakanda, as you may have heard, is vibrant due to its massive deposits of vibranium, a literal Magic Dirt, which proves Trump is racist. Or something. …

In the old days, however, it was easier to fantasize about distant lands that were at least nominally existent.

Read the whole thing there.

 
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  1. Thomas says:

    I’m guessing that Black Panther would be far less appealing to the fanboys if T’Challa were to have a secret identity as an Über driver in America, though Eddie Murphy probably mined out that vein thirty years ago. https://youtu.be/C1AAgRqwKPo

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  2. Doug says:

    Great article. Good mix of historical fact and iSteve interpretation. Learned a lot, but was still entertained.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
    I agree, and Steve's closing line "you have to be in bad shape to want to risk your life to get to Yemen" is a classic.

    Could someone here catalog Steve's best closing lines (or at least suggest a few favorites?)
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  3. Anonym says:

    In 1896, Emperor Menelik II defeated the invading Italians, the only long-term defeat Africans imposed on Europeans in a test of arms in the 19th century.

    I think that may say as much if not more about the modern day Italians as it does about the Ethiopians.

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  4. conatus says:

    In the movie Avatar where bad white guys exploited good, tall natives they were mining

    “Unobtanium (pronounced un-ub-tain-ee-um) is a highly valuable mineral found on the moon Pandora. Humans mined unobtanium to save the Earth from its energy crisis; bluntly put, they need the mineral for their survival. It is extremely valuable to the human race. “

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  5. charlie says:

    Wakanda, and it magic minerals, sounds a great deal like “Golcanda” to my ear.

    Golcanda was the only large scale source of diamonds, and more importantly extremely high quality iron ore for most of human history. Damascus steel is just Golcandoan ore.

    It is just outside of Hyderbad, India.

    Hyberbad says it is a high tech paradise now, maybe so, I’d vote for Bangalore over it.

    Hyderbad did have the fabulously wealthy Nizam back in the day, Bangalore had the only decent beer in India.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    Er, Golconda. Hyderabad.
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  6. nebulafox says:

    >None of this made much sense, but the admirableness of Mao’s China was conventional wisdom among American intellectuals from New York Times columnist James Reston’s 1971 trip with Henry Kissinger, during which Reston had his appendix removed using only acupuncture as anesthesia, until art historian Simon Leys’ debunking book Chinese Shadows in 1977.

    The Chinese informed Reston upon his arrival that his trip to Beijing was “postponed”… and ended up putting him on a slow train to travel all the way from Guangzhou. This was deliberate so that by the time he arrived, Kissinger had already left, meaning that Reston threw a hissy fit and burst his appendix. One wonders if the motive was general Chinese contempt for of intellectual “useful idiots” abroad, as was characteristic of many dictatorial regimes in the 20th Century all over the political spectrum, or a deliberate attempt to butter up Richard Nixon, who hated (and was hated by-he couldn’t go a page in his book about the Frost interviews without launching a diatribe about Nixon and labeled him as “Proteus”) Reston with the passion of a thousand suns and took a bemused attitude of gratitude to Zhou Enlai for the whole incident. Zhou was a extremely subtle yet skillful operator who knew exactly which buttons to push to produce favorable reactions from individual foreign leaders when he wanted to-and when he was allowed to by Mao, so my guess is a bit of both.

    Anyway, still can’t get over how downright stupid leftist worship for Maoist China really was. If you substitute in an internationalist focused, revolution sponsoring foreign policy in exchange for the racial hyper-nationalism that animates North Korea, China in the 1960s basically *was* North Korea. You know, with the mass hunger, the labor camps, the Orwellian cult of personality, getting family members to inform on each other, that kind of thing. But on another level, it does make sense. The Soviet Union by the 1960s was rather unsuitable as a model for proto-SJWs in particular: way too white, socially conservative, and disturbingly not interested in blowing the world up anymore in the name of revolution.

    China on the other hand… well, there was a reason that the real North Korea had border conflicts with it and the USSR was so frightened of it that it seriously considered launching a preemptive nuclear attack. Cultural Revolution-era China scared the crap out of everybody in the region.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    North Korea was always way more conservative than Maoist China. The old Kim, like his descendants, only wanted a family rule, enjoying the sweet life, and reunification under his own rule (if possible). He never wanted the radical experiments. North Korea looks bizarre to us, and it certainly is, but Maoist China was way worse. The North Koreans are starving (or were starving a couple decades ago) because they lost their source for cheap fuel, and couldn’t physically readjust their economy so quickly. The Chinese under Chairman Mao were starving because Mao was an idiot.
    , @AndrewR
    Are you sure about your claim about James Reston? His column about his surgery is apparently only available to NYT subscribers, but the NYT published a letter in 1995 by an individual specifically claiming that the acupuncture was used to treat Reston's post-operative pain. The letter didn't mention the type of anesthesia used during the surgery but there's no reason to think that acupuncture was used during the surgery, let alone that it was the only treatment.

    As for your claim about the USSR being "way too white" for 1960s leftists, I think your claim is wildly anachronistic.

    , @AndrewR
    The stupid edit-timer got me, so let me elaborate: my impression is that 1960s leftists were anti-racist in a much more literal sense than their 2010s counterparts who are "anti-racist" in a more Orwellian sense of being anti-white. White supremacy was actually real back then instead of being the figment of leftist mass psychosis like it is in 2018. Other than outliers like (((Susan Sonntag))) and Ann Dunham, I think most leftists didn't hate whites per se. Of course, I have no memory of that decade and I bet you don't either, so I can't speak from lived experience.
    , @AnotherDad

    You know, with the mass hunger, the labor camps, the Orwellian cult of personality, getting family members to inform on each other, that kind of thing.
     
    A kind of handy marker of an evil totalitarian regime is that it wants to get inside the family and undermine it--create informants, do "reconstruction".

    In a healthy civilization, there is an organic civil society that is built *on top* of the family. Husbands and wives and children trust each other and are working on the joint project of their family's
    survival, success and sucession to the next generation. Whatever the nature of the regime, in a healthy civilization they respect the family as bedrock and work to keep it health or at minimum leave it alone.
    , @Abe

    If you substitute in an internationalist focused, revolution sponsoring foreign policy in exchange for the racial hyper-nationalism that animates North Korea, China in the 1960s basically *was* North Korea.
     
    Ingmar Bergman made a film called WINTER LIGHT where Max von Sydow's character is thrown into a full-blown existential crisis after hearing Mao's China is developing the atom bomb.
    , @Sean
    Fear of China staging a Korean war style intervention was a major restraint on America in taking the war to North Vietnam. The Vietnamese were lauded in the 60s
    "Ho Ho Chi Minh, the NLF is gonna win!"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUlbKlE20-4
    , @anonymous
    Sounds like Reston developed a case of Duranty Syndrome.
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  7. Neoconned says:

    Do you have any good books you’d recommend to read on Mao era China? Serious inquiry….

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    • Replies: @Steve-o
    Mao: A Life by Philip Short is good. Wild Swans also deals with the insanity of the Mao era.
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  8. Neoconned says:

    WE WUZ KANGZ! NUBIA!!

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  9. Great article, Steve. Thanks.

    Ethiopia’s dominant group, the Amharas, are phenotypically different from most sub-Saharan African groups, and their features put them closer to Egypts Copts or Arabs in the Gulf. That portrait of Haile Selassie is a good example.

    They have always been conscious of this, as well as proud of their ancient Christianity, and consider themselves to be separate from the peoples, cultures and the Africanist political traditions (such as they are) in the other parts of the continent.

    During the time of the Emperor in the post-War period, Addis Ababa was one of the more cosmopolitan African cities, with a curious mix of non-third-world Italian and Southern European/Levantine cultures and facilities—it had nice restaurants, department stores and delis—and a middle-ages local culture centered around its ancient churches and colorfully dressed clergy. And Ethiopian Airlines, one of the modernizing initiatives by the Emperor, deservedly had a reputation for being one of the world’s nicest airlines .

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    • Replies: @John Derbyshire
    See here.

    There are four and a half distinct races in sub-Saharan Africa: Negroes, Nilotics, Pygmies, Hottentots, and that Cushitic race salad in the Horn. Practically all the black slaves imported into the New World were Negroes. That's given us an unbalanced view of the African peoples.
    , @Nigerian Nationalist
    Bit out of date mate, Ethiopia's dominant grouping are the Tigrayans these days. Looking forward to seeing the theory update.
    , @AP
    Ethiopia - another place screwed up by Communists.
    , @Z-man
    The Somalis also, racially speaking. Funny during around the time of 'Black Hawk Down' I remember a story of on NBC? about this old guy proudly taking out his old Italian issue uniform and resuming his duties as traffic cop on a major square in Mogadishu.
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  10. Arclight says:

    The mania for Wakanka sort of reminds me of a statement TNC made some years ago…the gist of which is that he needs to believe in certain ideas about American blacks (like their condition is entirely the fault of white racism) because the alternative is that they are just basically history’s losers, which is too painful to contemplate. I am sympathetic to this view up to a point, except unlike a lot of other groups who decided they are sick of being on the bottom and work over generations to find a place in society, it is now just a catch-all excuse that accompanies a demand that they be given special treatment.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    The mania for Wakanka sort of reminds me of a statement TNC made some years ago…the gist of which is that he needs to believe in certain ideas about American blacks (like their condition is entirely the fault of white racism) because the alternative is that they are just basically history’s losers, which is too painful to contemplate.
     
    Arclight illuminates the issue!

    One could trot out examples, evidence, go book length, heck fill volumes. The bottom line here is that essentially since 1960--basically over the arc of my life--the US has effectively conducted a natural experiment into where exactly the fault for "the Negro problem" lies. And the answer has come back--really has been back even charitably for twenty years or more--"with the Negros themselves".

    This failure has been made even more glaring by our "elites" insistence on "invite the world". The relative success of every other ethnic group in the world showing up in America has highlighted that blacks really are "just basically history's losers". Not demographically certainly, but in terms of being about to function in--much less run--a modern civilization. (I guess we could import some Australian aboriginies, or better yet Adaman Islanders to debunk this.)

    This is just generally ... depressing. It's pretty depressing to white Americans like me. The Obamania was 95% idealistic--and usually well isolated from blacks--whites clinging on to some desire for it not to be true, for there still to be some hope, if blacks could just see themselves ... if ... if ... if.

    And it's got to be even more depressing to the middle class blacks who aren't screwups, but are racially tethered to a lot of screwups, outright criminals and general dysfunction and mediocrity, and think "i know we can and should be doing better than this!" It's so much more pleasant to think "whitey messed us up!", "we wuz kangz!" than admit that your tribe is full of a bunch of boneheads. Denial ... it ain't just a river in Abyssinia.
    , @Jack D
    In 1896, Walker, the President of MIT, wrote in the Atlantic of the then current immigration wave of E. European Jews, Southern Italians, etc.:

    The entrance into our political, social, and industrial life of such vast masses of peasantry, degraded below our utmost conceptions, is a matter which no intelligent patriot can look upon without the gravest apprehension and alarm. These people have no history behind them which is of a nature to give encouragement. They have none of the inherited instincts and tendencies which made it comparatively easy to deal with the immigration of the olden time. They are beaten men from beaten races; representing the worst failures in the struggle for existence. Centuries are against them, as centuries were on the side of those who formerly came to us. They have none of the ideas and aptitudes which fit men to take up readily and easily the problem of self-care and self-government, such as belong to those who are descended from the tribes that met under the oak-trees of old Germany to make laws and choose chieftains.
     
    The President of MIT today is a Jew from Venezuela who spoke Yiddish to his parents growing up. Less than 40 years after Walker wrote, the Germans took up self-government with a vengeance.

    So you have to watch who you are calling a loser. That being said, blacks have been here for over 300 years and don't seem to be in danger of breaking out and showing their true genius any time soon.
    , @MEH 0910
    http://www.unz.com/isteve/genius-t-coates-on-glowing-amulet-of-whitenesss-eldritch-energies/#comment-1998146
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  11. David says:

    Another example of Abyssinia forming an idealistic foil to Europe is Rasselas, Prince of Abissinia by Johnson. I know nothing of Wakanda but wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out to be much like Amhara:

    The place which the wisdom or policy of antiquity had destined for the residence of the Abyssinian princes was a spacious valley in the kingdom of Amhara, surrounded on every side by mountains, of which the summits overhang the middle part. The only passage by which it could be entered was a cavern that passed under a rock, of which it had long been disputed whether it was the work of nature or of human industry. The outlet of the cavern was concealed by a thick wood, and the mouth which opened into the valley was closed with gates of iron, forged by the artificers of ancient days, so massive that no man, without the help of engines, could open or shut them.

    From the mountains on every side rivulets descended that filled all the valley with verdure and fertility, and formed a lake in the middle, inhabited by fish of every species, and frequented by every fowl whom nature has taught to dip the wing in water. This lake discharged its superfluities by a stream, which entered a dark cleft of the mountain on the northern side, and fell with dreadful noise from precipice to precipice till it was heard no more.

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  12. AndrewR says:

    The breadth of information available to the masses now is still irrelevant to many. If only one lesson can be learned from recent years, it’s that a very large subset of people make up their minds about a very large number of things through entirely irrational means, and no amount of evidence or logical explanation can change their minds. So while a relatively intelligent and dispassionate person like Steve Sailer may easily change his mind in light of new evidence and/or irrefutable logic, many, many people are utterly immune to evidence and logic. This is especially true of the target audience of Black Panther: We Wuz Kangz.

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  13. Hodag says:

    A few decades before the Ethiopian misadventure at the Vatican, many in Christendom had another candidate for Prestor John – Tamerlane. While with the benefit of retrospect a guy who called himself “The Sword of Islam” may seem a foolish choice, his defeat of the Turks and capturing their sultan (thus saving Constantinople for some time further) was not a bad guess.

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  14. @nebulafox
    >None of this made much sense, but the admirableness of Mao’s China was conventional wisdom among American intellectuals from New York Times columnist James Reston’s 1971 trip with Henry Kissinger, during which Reston had his appendix removed using only acupuncture as anesthesia, until art historian Simon Leys’ debunking book Chinese Shadows in 1977.

    The Chinese informed Reston upon his arrival that his trip to Beijing was "postponed"... and ended up putting him on a slow train to travel all the way from Guangzhou. This was deliberate so that by the time he arrived, Kissinger had already left, meaning that Reston threw a hissy fit and burst his appendix. One wonders if the motive was general Chinese contempt for of intellectual "useful idiots" abroad, as was characteristic of many dictatorial regimes in the 20th Century all over the political spectrum, or a deliberate attempt to butter up Richard Nixon, who hated (and was hated by-he couldn't go a page in his book about the Frost interviews without launching a diatribe about Nixon and labeled him as "Proteus") Reston with the passion of a thousand suns and took a bemused attitude of gratitude to Zhou Enlai for the whole incident. Zhou was a extremely subtle yet skillful operator who knew exactly which buttons to push to produce favorable reactions from individual foreign leaders when he wanted to-and when he was allowed to by Mao, so my guess is a bit of both.

    Anyway, still can't get over how downright stupid leftist worship for Maoist China really was. If you substitute in an internationalist focused, revolution sponsoring foreign policy in exchange for the racial hyper-nationalism that animates North Korea, China in the 1960s basically *was* North Korea. You know, with the mass hunger, the labor camps, the Orwellian cult of personality, getting family members to inform on each other, that kind of thing. But on another level, it does make sense. The Soviet Union by the 1960s was rather unsuitable as a model for proto-SJWs in particular: way too white, socially conservative, and disturbingly not interested in blowing the world up anymore in the name of revolution.

    China on the other hand... well, there was a reason that the real North Korea had border conflicts with it and the USSR was so frightened of it that it seriously considered launching a preemptive nuclear attack. Cultural Revolution-era China scared the crap out of everybody in the region.

    North Korea was always way more conservative than Maoist China. The old Kim, like his descendants, only wanted a family rule, enjoying the sweet life, and reunification under his own rule (if possible). He never wanted the radical experiments. North Korea looks bizarre to us, and it certainly is, but Maoist China was way worse. The North Koreans are starving (or were starving a couple decades ago) because they lost their source for cheap fuel, and couldn’t physically readjust their economy so quickly. The Chinese under Chairman Mao were starving because Mao was an idiot.

    Read More
    • Replies: @njguy73

    The North Koreans are starving (or were starving a couple decades ago) because they lost their source for cheap fuel, and couldn’t physically readjust their economy so quickly.
     
    North Korea was OK until the Soviet Union dissolved. Then the country only had newly-reforming China as an ally. But the Kim family was control-freaky that things could only get so much better.

    Cuba would have suffered a similar fate, but Castro, to his credit, was able to get help from Venezuela and Bolivia. And Cuba put forth a program to get people to be more self-reliant in food production, and to conserve more. What Jimmy Carter couldn't get Americans to do in the '70s, Castro was able to get Cubans to do in the '90s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Period#Government_response
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  15. AndrewR says:
    @nebulafox
    >None of this made much sense, but the admirableness of Mao’s China was conventional wisdom among American intellectuals from New York Times columnist James Reston’s 1971 trip with Henry Kissinger, during which Reston had his appendix removed using only acupuncture as anesthesia, until art historian Simon Leys’ debunking book Chinese Shadows in 1977.

    The Chinese informed Reston upon his arrival that his trip to Beijing was "postponed"... and ended up putting him on a slow train to travel all the way from Guangzhou. This was deliberate so that by the time he arrived, Kissinger had already left, meaning that Reston threw a hissy fit and burst his appendix. One wonders if the motive was general Chinese contempt for of intellectual "useful idiots" abroad, as was characteristic of many dictatorial regimes in the 20th Century all over the political spectrum, or a deliberate attempt to butter up Richard Nixon, who hated (and was hated by-he couldn't go a page in his book about the Frost interviews without launching a diatribe about Nixon and labeled him as "Proteus") Reston with the passion of a thousand suns and took a bemused attitude of gratitude to Zhou Enlai for the whole incident. Zhou was a extremely subtle yet skillful operator who knew exactly which buttons to push to produce favorable reactions from individual foreign leaders when he wanted to-and when he was allowed to by Mao, so my guess is a bit of both.

    Anyway, still can't get over how downright stupid leftist worship for Maoist China really was. If you substitute in an internationalist focused, revolution sponsoring foreign policy in exchange for the racial hyper-nationalism that animates North Korea, China in the 1960s basically *was* North Korea. You know, with the mass hunger, the labor camps, the Orwellian cult of personality, getting family members to inform on each other, that kind of thing. But on another level, it does make sense. The Soviet Union by the 1960s was rather unsuitable as a model for proto-SJWs in particular: way too white, socially conservative, and disturbingly not interested in blowing the world up anymore in the name of revolution.

    China on the other hand... well, there was a reason that the real North Korea had border conflicts with it and the USSR was so frightened of it that it seriously considered launching a preemptive nuclear attack. Cultural Revolution-era China scared the crap out of everybody in the region.

    Are you sure about your claim about James Reston? His column about his surgery is apparently only available to NYT subscribers, but the NYT published a letter in 1995 by an individual specifically claiming that the acupuncture was used to treat Reston’s post-operative pain. The letter didn’t mention the type of anesthesia used during the surgery but there’s no reason to think that acupuncture was used during the surgery, let alone that it was the only treatment.

    As for your claim about the USSR being “way too white” for 1960s leftists, I think your claim is wildly anachronistic.

    Read More
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  16. Tiny Duck says:

    You guys need to read Chris Hayes for a meaningful white perspective

    He is a smart man that doesn’t do the whole herpderp muh genetics

    It says a lot that a movie triggers you snowflakes

    People of Color are the future

    GET OVER IT

    white men enslaved and raped the world

    Now it’s payback time

    Read More
    • Replies: @newrouter
    "Now it’s payback time"

    Do you take EBT?
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  17. njguy73 says:

    My personal reading of Black Panther?

    It’s not an African fantasy. It’s a Western fantasy and, partially, a fantasy of non-Western countries who have spent centuries looking for African allies. Let’s ditch the dreams. There is no Prester John. There is no nonwhite emperor friend. Let’s just pretend that Africa is now developed enough that we don’t have to form an alliance with it, we don’t have to send missionaries, we don’t have to send food. We can now just leave them alone.

    Next, someone needs to make comic books called Afghani Panther, Latinx Panther, and Caribbean Panther.

    And Emma Lazarus, wherever she is, will say, “You can take down the plaque now, my work is done.”

    Read More
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  18. AndrewR says:
    @nebulafox
    >None of this made much sense, but the admirableness of Mao’s China was conventional wisdom among American intellectuals from New York Times columnist James Reston’s 1971 trip with Henry Kissinger, during which Reston had his appendix removed using only acupuncture as anesthesia, until art historian Simon Leys’ debunking book Chinese Shadows in 1977.

    The Chinese informed Reston upon his arrival that his trip to Beijing was "postponed"... and ended up putting him on a slow train to travel all the way from Guangzhou. This was deliberate so that by the time he arrived, Kissinger had already left, meaning that Reston threw a hissy fit and burst his appendix. One wonders if the motive was general Chinese contempt for of intellectual "useful idiots" abroad, as was characteristic of many dictatorial regimes in the 20th Century all over the political spectrum, or a deliberate attempt to butter up Richard Nixon, who hated (and was hated by-he couldn't go a page in his book about the Frost interviews without launching a diatribe about Nixon and labeled him as "Proteus") Reston with the passion of a thousand suns and took a bemused attitude of gratitude to Zhou Enlai for the whole incident. Zhou was a extremely subtle yet skillful operator who knew exactly which buttons to push to produce favorable reactions from individual foreign leaders when he wanted to-and when he was allowed to by Mao, so my guess is a bit of both.

    Anyway, still can't get over how downright stupid leftist worship for Maoist China really was. If you substitute in an internationalist focused, revolution sponsoring foreign policy in exchange for the racial hyper-nationalism that animates North Korea, China in the 1960s basically *was* North Korea. You know, with the mass hunger, the labor camps, the Orwellian cult of personality, getting family members to inform on each other, that kind of thing. But on another level, it does make sense. The Soviet Union by the 1960s was rather unsuitable as a model for proto-SJWs in particular: way too white, socially conservative, and disturbingly not interested in blowing the world up anymore in the name of revolution.

    China on the other hand... well, there was a reason that the real North Korea had border conflicts with it and the USSR was so frightened of it that it seriously considered launching a preemptive nuclear attack. Cultural Revolution-era China scared the crap out of everybody in the region.

    The stupid edit-timer got me, so let me elaborate: my impression is that 1960s leftists were anti-racist in a much more literal sense than their 2010s counterparts who are “anti-racist” in a more Orwellian sense of being anti-white. White supremacy was actually real back then instead of being the figment of leftist mass psychosis like it is in 2018. Other than outliers like (((Susan Sonntag))) and Ann Dunham, I think most leftists didn’t hate whites per se. Of course, I have no memory of that decade and I bet you don’t either, so I can’t speak from lived experience.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L Woods
    You're giving the left far too much benefit of the doubt. I'm not really sure how a country that was ~90% white (and virtually entirely so for vast swathes) could be anything but "white supremacist" in any case.
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  19. njguy73 says:
    @reiner Tor
    North Korea was always way more conservative than Maoist China. The old Kim, like his descendants, only wanted a family rule, enjoying the sweet life, and reunification under his own rule (if possible). He never wanted the radical experiments. North Korea looks bizarre to us, and it certainly is, but Maoist China was way worse. The North Koreans are starving (or were starving a couple decades ago) because they lost their source for cheap fuel, and couldn’t physically readjust their economy so quickly. The Chinese under Chairman Mao were starving because Mao was an idiot.

    The North Koreans are starving (or were starving a couple decades ago) because they lost their source for cheap fuel, and couldn’t physically readjust their economy so quickly.

    North Korea was OK until the Soviet Union dissolved. Then the country only had newly-reforming China as an ally. But the Kim family was control-freaky that things could only get so much better.

    Cuba would have suffered a similar fate, but Castro, to his credit, was able to get help from Venezuela and Bolivia. And Cuba put forth a program to get people to be more self-reliant in food production, and to conserve more. What Jimmy Carter couldn’t get Americans to do in the ’70s, Castro was able to get Cubans to do in the ’90s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Period#Government_response

    Read More
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  20. @nebulafox
    >None of this made much sense, but the admirableness of Mao’s China was conventional wisdom among American intellectuals from New York Times columnist James Reston’s 1971 trip with Henry Kissinger, during which Reston had his appendix removed using only acupuncture as anesthesia, until art historian Simon Leys’ debunking book Chinese Shadows in 1977.

    The Chinese informed Reston upon his arrival that his trip to Beijing was "postponed"... and ended up putting him on a slow train to travel all the way from Guangzhou. This was deliberate so that by the time he arrived, Kissinger had already left, meaning that Reston threw a hissy fit and burst his appendix. One wonders if the motive was general Chinese contempt for of intellectual "useful idiots" abroad, as was characteristic of many dictatorial regimes in the 20th Century all over the political spectrum, or a deliberate attempt to butter up Richard Nixon, who hated (and was hated by-he couldn't go a page in his book about the Frost interviews without launching a diatribe about Nixon and labeled him as "Proteus") Reston with the passion of a thousand suns and took a bemused attitude of gratitude to Zhou Enlai for the whole incident. Zhou was a extremely subtle yet skillful operator who knew exactly which buttons to push to produce favorable reactions from individual foreign leaders when he wanted to-and when he was allowed to by Mao, so my guess is a bit of both.

    Anyway, still can't get over how downright stupid leftist worship for Maoist China really was. If you substitute in an internationalist focused, revolution sponsoring foreign policy in exchange for the racial hyper-nationalism that animates North Korea, China in the 1960s basically *was* North Korea. You know, with the mass hunger, the labor camps, the Orwellian cult of personality, getting family members to inform on each other, that kind of thing. But on another level, it does make sense. The Soviet Union by the 1960s was rather unsuitable as a model for proto-SJWs in particular: way too white, socially conservative, and disturbingly not interested in blowing the world up anymore in the name of revolution.

    China on the other hand... well, there was a reason that the real North Korea had border conflicts with it and the USSR was so frightened of it that it seriously considered launching a preemptive nuclear attack. Cultural Revolution-era China scared the crap out of everybody in the region.

    You know, with the mass hunger, the labor camps, the Orwellian cult of personality, getting family members to inform on each other, that kind of thing.

    A kind of handy marker of an evil totalitarian regime is that it wants to get inside the family and undermine it–create informants, do “reconstruction”.

    In a healthy civilization, there is an organic civil society that is built *on top* of the family. Husbands and wives and children trust each other and are working on the joint project of their family’s
    survival, success and sucession to the next generation. Whatever the nature of the regime, in a healthy civilization they respect the family as bedrock and work to keep it health or at minimum leave it alone.

    Read More
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    "In a healthy civilization, there is an organic civil society that is built *on top* of the family. Husbands and wives and children trust each other and are working on the joint project of their family’s survival, success and sucession to the next generation. Whatever the nature of the regime, in a healthy civilization they respect the family as bedrock and work to keep it health or at minimum leave it alone."
     
    I know of a UK family where the teenage son was being a mouthy teenage son, his mother slapped him, and he called the police. She didn't end up in court (I think she was cautioned), but she lost her job as a school nurse (at an expensive private school).

    I hope his parents disowned him, but I don't know what that episode did to that family. Wouldn't think it could ever be the same.
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  21. anon • Disclaimer says:
    Read More
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  22. @Arclight
    The mania for Wakanka sort of reminds me of a statement TNC made some years ago...the gist of which is that he needs to believe in certain ideas about American blacks (like their condition is entirely the fault of white racism) because the alternative is that they are just basically history's losers, which is too painful to contemplate. I am sympathetic to this view up to a point, except unlike a lot of other groups who decided they are sick of being on the bottom and work over generations to find a place in society, it is now just a catch-all excuse that accompanies a demand that they be given special treatment.

    The mania for Wakanka sort of reminds me of a statement TNC made some years ago…the gist of which is that he needs to believe in certain ideas about American blacks (like their condition is entirely the fault of white racism) because the alternative is that they are just basically history’s losers, which is too painful to contemplate.

    Arclight illuminates the issue!

    One could trot out examples, evidence, go book length, heck fill volumes. The bottom line here is that essentially since 1960–basically over the arc of my life–the US has effectively conducted a natural experiment into where exactly the fault for “the Negro problem” lies. And the answer has come back–really has been back even charitably for twenty years or more–”with the Negros themselves”.

    This failure has been made even more glaring by our “elites” insistence on “invite the world”. The relative success of every other ethnic group in the world showing up in America has highlighted that blacks really are “just basically history’s losers”. Not demographically certainly, but in terms of being about to function in–much less run–a modern civilization. (I guess we could import some Australian aboriginies, or better yet Adaman Islanders to debunk this.)

    This is just generally … depressing. It’s pretty depressing to white Americans like me. The Obamania was 95% idealistic–and usually well isolated from blacks–whites clinging on to some desire for it not to be true, for there still to be some hope, if blacks could just see themselves … if … if … if.

    And it’s got to be even more depressing to the middle class blacks who aren’t screwups, but are racially tethered to a lot of screwups, outright criminals and general dysfunction and mediocrity, and think “i know we can and should be doing better than this!” It’s so much more pleasant to think “whitey messed us up!”, “we wuz kangz!” than admit that your tribe is full of a bunch of boneheads. Denial … it ain’t just a river in Abyssinia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Funny, for "history's losers" they have completely taken over the Caribbean and squeezed out the white race. A few hundred thousand imported slaves are now tens of millions in the US. Evolution only cares about reproductive success and not any other kind.

    Maybe blacks are not the greatest geniuses but somehow high intelligence in the modern world leads to cat ladyhood and far below replacement birth rates. You had better get used to a world that is browner and dumber. Maybe you don't really need that many smart people to keep a civilization running. In (most parts of) the Caribbean society functions pretty well with only a sprinkling of whites. It's only when you decide to completely get rid of whitey (Zimbabwe, Haiti) that things really go south.
    , @Jack D
    If you think about it, this kind of lack of acceptance was more or less inevitable. Who is going to accept that they are from a "broken race" and that you are always going to be at the bottom of the heap and there's not a damn thing you can do about it because it's genetic and was predetermined from the moment of your conception? Maybe certain Asian religions allow you to have that kind of acceptance of your fate, but this goes against the grain of everything that Americans (including American blacks) are taught. And not just in the modern era where their heads are filled with we wuz kangs nonsense, but as a basic tenet of Western thinking. And yet on some other level, blacks can see that the deterministic view really does have some truth in it, so this creates cognitive dissonance which leads to denial - NO, there is no problem at all, it's all great or it would have been if it wasn't for whitey. It's really hard to envision some alternate reality where American blacks were willing to realistically confront their own issues. Everyone's a critic except when they look in the mirror. Jesus said not to speak about the mote in your neighbor's eye but the beam in your own precisely because it is human nature to do the opposite.
    , @Currahee
    Ronald Reagan re. Nat King Cole:

    "Why can't they all be like that?"
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  23. @PiltdownMan
    Great article, Steve. Thanks.

    Ethiopia's dominant group, the Amharas, are phenotypically different from most sub-Saharan African groups, and their features put them closer to Egypts Copts or Arabs in the Gulf. That portrait of Haile Selassie is a good example.

    They have always been conscious of this, as well as proud of their ancient Christianity, and consider themselves to be separate from the peoples, cultures and the Africanist political traditions (such as they are) in the other parts of the continent.

    During the time of the Emperor in the post-War period, Addis Ababa was one of the more cosmopolitan African cities, with a curious mix of non-third-world Italian and Southern European/Levantine cultures and facilities—it had nice restaurants, department stores and delis—and a middle-ages local culture centered around its ancient churches and colorfully dressed clergy. And Ethiopian Airlines, one of the modernizing initiatives by the Emperor, deservedly had a reputation for being one of the world's nicest airlines .

    http://theethiopianworldfederationinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Clergy.jpg

    See here.

    There are four and a half distinct races in sub-Saharan Africa: Negroes, Nilotics, Pygmies, Hottentots, and that Cushitic race salad in the Horn. Practically all the black slaves imported into the New World were Negroes. That’s given us an unbalanced view of the African peoples.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Hottentots.

    Reminds me of that famous north London soccer team, much supported by the local Hebrew fraternity 'Tottenham Hotspur'.
    , @Jack D
    Could have been worse. Pygmies are even dumber than Negroes. They average out at retarded levels. Then again "gentle midgets" would not be able to strong arm shopkeepers in the way gentle giants do. Although I guess the HP25 is the great equalizer.
    , @Corvinus
    "There are four and a half distinct races in sub-Saharan Africa: Negroes, Nilotics, Pygmies, Hottentots, and that Cushitic race salad in the Horn."

    No, these groups are NOT "distinct races", but are particular tribal ethnic groups. The "Hottentots" are actually the Khoikhoi, or Khoi, peoples, who practiced pastoral agriculture. It was the Dutch who labeled them in this fashion. In essence, they created a concept based on their particular worldview at the time.

    Sub-Saharan Africans are Negroid/Black.

    Regardless, "Black Panther" is a film, The Coalition of the Right and the Coalition of the Left are having a field day crafting their narrative--"race realism" vs. "race power". In the end, those who see the movie are desiring to be entertained, and generally not thinking about the movie from a Sailerian or SJW lens.

    , @Ed
    There is no African group called “Negroes” scientifically, anthropologically or even historically.”
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  24. Jake says:

    The Liberal stereotype of white Gentiles is that we are the most prejudiced and bigoted people on earth, that we only see bad in other peoples, and that much of the bad we think we see is non-existent.

    The opposite is the truth. White Gentiles, of all languages and ethnicities in all ages, are fascinated by people they do not truly know, people they see as different. And while many white Gentiles in most eras have deeply held hatreds of other white Gentiles that can rise to the level of desire for at least cultural and linguistic genocide, virtually all white Gentiles romanticize and fantasize at least one group of non-whites.

    We create fantasy Jews, Arabs, Afghans, Indians, Gypsies, Turks, Chinese, Japanese, southeast Asians, Australian Aboriginals, Maoris, Samoans, Mayans, Aztecs, Incas, Comanches, Apaches, Negroes, etc.

    Especially Negroes. Much more than even Jews.

    We delight in our fantasy non-whites. In fact, the white Gentile world of secularist liberal democracy is filled with people who would gladly sacrifice their peoples’ wealth and safety, even genetic survival, in order to uplift their favorite romanticized non-whites.

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  25. Steve: You omitted the best bit in Waugh’s Ethiopia diary. From memory: “Arrived Addis Friday. Dinner with the British mission. Asked me to beat him.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    This must have been from an earlier trip than the one described in Waugh In Abyssinia.
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  26. ChrisZ says:

    I agree entirely with your observation, AD. But I’m always impressed at how some philosophies undergirding Western civ find the family to be a problem. (I’m thinking here of Plato in the Republic, and even some utterances of Jesus.)

    And of course the tendency towards clan rivalry and nepotism, inherent in biological relatedness, has its own ill effects. In this forum the reality of race (and certainly of ethnicity) has been described as an extended family relation. (Its more irritating and comic implications can be seen in the current Wakanda-mania.)

    It’s really quite an achievement of the Classical Liberal order (with roots extending further back, of course) that it preserved the nuclear family as (among other things) a bulwark of freedom and societal stability, while largely detaching it from the excesses of the clan, on the one hand, and the resentful urge to abolish the family in the name of “perfect justice,” on the other.

    As I think about it, one source of our current crisis is that the healthy conception of the family is being held in a pincer move by the heirs of those two pernicious excesses.

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  27. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Haile Selassie was really only fairly selassie.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    "Allahassee Lassie" was #6 on the charts in Ethopia in June of 1959?

    https://youtu.be/4pgbJaKemic
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  28. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @John Derbyshire
    See here.

    There are four and a half distinct races in sub-Saharan Africa: Negroes, Nilotics, Pygmies, Hottentots, and that Cushitic race salad in the Horn. Practically all the black slaves imported into the New World were Negroes. That's given us an unbalanced view of the African peoples.

    Hottentots.

    Reminds me of that famous north London soccer team, much supported by the local Hebrew fraternity ‘Tottenham Hotspur’.

    Read More
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  29. Jack D says:
    @John Derbyshire
    See here.

    There are four and a half distinct races in sub-Saharan Africa: Negroes, Nilotics, Pygmies, Hottentots, and that Cushitic race salad in the Horn. Practically all the black slaves imported into the New World were Negroes. That's given us an unbalanced view of the African peoples.

    Could have been worse. Pygmies are even dumber than Negroes. They average out at retarded levels. Then again “gentle midgets” would not be able to strong arm shopkeepers in the way gentle giants do. Although I guess the HP25 is the great equalizer.

    Read More
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  30. Corvinus says:
    @John Derbyshire
    See here.

    There are four and a half distinct races in sub-Saharan Africa: Negroes, Nilotics, Pygmies, Hottentots, and that Cushitic race salad in the Horn. Practically all the black slaves imported into the New World were Negroes. That's given us an unbalanced view of the African peoples.

    “There are four and a half distinct races in sub-Saharan Africa: Negroes, Nilotics, Pygmies, Hottentots, and that Cushitic race salad in the Horn.”

    No, these groups are NOT “distinct races”, but are particular tribal ethnic groups. The “Hottentots” are actually the Khoikhoi, or Khoi, peoples, who practiced pastoral agriculture. It was the Dutch who labeled them in this fashion. In essence, they created a concept based on their particular worldview at the time.

    Sub-Saharan Africans are Negroid/Black.

    Regardless, “Black Panther” is a film, The Coalition of the Right and the Coalition of the Left are having a field day crafting their narrative–”race realism” vs. “race power”. In the end, those who see the movie are desiring to be entertained, and generally not thinking about the movie from a Sailerian or SJW lens.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Putting aside that "race does not exist", if you look at, for example, a Bushman (Khoisan), a Bantu and an Ethiopian you can pretty clearly see that they don't really look like each other, while they resemble their fellow "tribesmen" a lot. This goes with Steve's idea that races are really just (very) extended families.
    , @syonredux

    No, these groups are NOT “distinct races”, but are particular tribal ethnic groups. The “Hottentots” are actually the Khoikhoi, or Khoi, peoples, who practiced pastoral agriculture. It was the Dutch who labeled them in this fashion. In essence, they created a concept based on their particular worldview at the time.
     
    Need to do a bit more research, dear fellow. The Khoisan are quite racially distinct....
    , @Jack D

    In the end, those who see the movie are desiring to be entertained, and generally not thinking about the movie from a Sailerian or SJW lens.
     
    That's the thing about brainwashing - it works best when you think you are just being entertained and not propagandized.

    Also, if white people were only there to be "entertained" by a movie positively depicting whites as a master race having a super-secret all white homeland closed to people of other colors, I don't think that would be accepted by the critics as "mere entertainment". Now part of this is just "man bites dog" is more interesting than vice versa but I've seen a few too many commercials with black doctors, lawyers, executives, etc. (but all the burglars in burglar alarm commercials are white) not to be suspicious:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=american+inventors
    , @utu

    In the end, those who see the movie are desiring to be entertained, and generally not thinking about the movie from a Sailerian or SJW lens.
     
    When you are being entertained you rational critical judgment guards are down then is the greatest opening to your mind to plant memes and ideas. The values and ideas do not come from intentional commercials, propaganda lies by news outlets and pedagogic lectures but from the pop culture. The pop culture rules. Most of your tastes, and distastes, likes and dislikes, inclinations and prejudices come from watching soaps and movies. Thus the Sailerian or SJW lens is appropriate here.
    , @gda
    "In the end, those who see the movie are desiring to be entertained....."

    Are they? I'm just bemused about the shrill attempts in the media to push this crap down our throats.

    "poised to be one of this year's biggest grosser"
    "seeing record reservations"

    Sure.
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  31. Jack D says:

    Another Ethiopian mania occurred in Israel. There was some Ethiopian tribe that had a few vaguely Jewish customs, maybe introduced by a passing Jewish merchant or even a Christian missionary (history in semi-literate places is a vague thing). Somehow, someone in Israel decided that they were really Jews. An oppressed community of Jews in danger for their lives (in Ethiopian this tribe was considered low caste and not treated well) and THIS TIME Israel would save them. The head Sephardi Rabbi, always anxious for more followers to vote for his patronage based political party, CERTIFIED they were Jewish. And Israel flew over 100,000 of these primitive tribesmen. Their integration with Israeli society has gone about as well as you would have expected – not so hot.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    The Falasha. Unlike the Tibeto-Burmese mongoloid "Bnei-Menashe", the Falasha may well be Judaic. Integration of this long isolated and disadvantaged Ethiopian tribe into Asheknazi-dominated Israel has indeed gone poorly, as could have been predicted. There was a lot of hype and self-congratulation in Israel about evacuating them out of Ethiopia during the time of the Marxist regime.

    There's more than cursory evidence, including the presence of Hebrew words in the Ethiopian languages( including liturgical language), that Ethiopia was quite possibly mostly Judaic before the arrival of early Christianity in the 3rd-4th Century A.D.

    , @kaganovitch
    " The head Sephardi Rabbi, always anxious for more followers to vote for his patronage based political party, CERTIFIED they were Jewish."

    This is a slur. There is no reason to think that the late R. Yosef was insincere in considering the Falashas Jewish . He was relying on the halachic precedent of Rabbi David ibn Zimra ,a noted 16th century authority. While his conclusion wasn't consistent with ethnographic findings it was sincerely held.
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  32. Jack D says:
    @AnotherDad

    The mania for Wakanka sort of reminds me of a statement TNC made some years ago…the gist of which is that he needs to believe in certain ideas about American blacks (like their condition is entirely the fault of white racism) because the alternative is that they are just basically history’s losers, which is too painful to contemplate.
     
    Arclight illuminates the issue!

    One could trot out examples, evidence, go book length, heck fill volumes. The bottom line here is that essentially since 1960--basically over the arc of my life--the US has effectively conducted a natural experiment into where exactly the fault for "the Negro problem" lies. And the answer has come back--really has been back even charitably for twenty years or more--"with the Negros themselves".

    This failure has been made even more glaring by our "elites" insistence on "invite the world". The relative success of every other ethnic group in the world showing up in America has highlighted that blacks really are "just basically history's losers". Not demographically certainly, but in terms of being about to function in--much less run--a modern civilization. (I guess we could import some Australian aboriginies, or better yet Adaman Islanders to debunk this.)

    This is just generally ... depressing. It's pretty depressing to white Americans like me. The Obamania was 95% idealistic--and usually well isolated from blacks--whites clinging on to some desire for it not to be true, for there still to be some hope, if blacks could just see themselves ... if ... if ... if.

    And it's got to be even more depressing to the middle class blacks who aren't screwups, but are racially tethered to a lot of screwups, outright criminals and general dysfunction and mediocrity, and think "i know we can and should be doing better than this!" It's so much more pleasant to think "whitey messed us up!", "we wuz kangz!" than admit that your tribe is full of a bunch of boneheads. Denial ... it ain't just a river in Abyssinia.

    Funny, for “history’s losers” they have completely taken over the Caribbean and squeezed out the white race. A few hundred thousand imported slaves are now tens of millions in the US. Evolution only cares about reproductive success and not any other kind.

    Maybe blacks are not the greatest geniuses but somehow high intelligence in the modern world leads to cat ladyhood and far below replacement birth rates. You had better get used to a world that is browner and dumber. Maybe you don’t really need that many smart people to keep a civilization running. In (most parts of) the Caribbean society functions pretty well with only a sprinkling of whites. It’s only when you decide to completely get rid of whitey (Zimbabwe, Haiti) that things really go south.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Arclight
    If we had a semi-rational government (and this goes for Europe as well) they would look at the Middle East and Africa and a) cut off aid, b) halt refugee admissions from those areas, and buckle down and let nature take its course for a few generations. It will be violent and ugly, but in the long run its better for humanity if both areas are subject to the selective pressures of warfare and resource scarcity for a bit, whereas we have stupidly enabled massive overpopulation and resettlement.
    , @anonymous
    The wrath of the Saxon is going to wake up any moment now. Oh look, potato chips!
    , @Samuel Skinner
    Both the Amish and Ultra-Orthodox Jews have higher birth rates and higher levels of intelligence. Don't count out the white race; the American Empire may commit suicide by leftism, but its collapse will bring about organized violence which whites excel at.
    , @nebulafox
    >Evolution only cares about reproductive success and not any other kind.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwZ0ZUy7P3E

    >In (most parts of) the Caribbean society functions pretty well with only a sprinkling of whites.

    Central America-to be distinguished from Mexico-is much in the same mold if you replace blacks with indios and occasionally add in a mostly Maronite/Palestinian Christian middleman immigrant class (highly unpopular with the masses, which the local political demagogues use to their advantage) in addition to the creole white elite. It's ultra-violent and corrupt as all hell, but it beats anarchy.

    @Doug

    >Even from a purely sociopathic perspective, there’s no evidence that your solution would even work.

    You can add on the fact that if people realize they are being left to starve en masse in the name of reasserting natural selection, realizing they have nothing to lose by not doing so, they'll attempt to flood the gates to the West.

    , @AnotherDad

    Funny, for “history’s losers” they have completely taken over the Caribbean and squeezed out the white race. A few hundred thousand imported slaves are now tens of millions in the US. Evolution only cares about reproductive success and not any other kind.
     
    Agreed.

    That's why i specifically inserted the sentence below to clarify Arclight's "history's losers" phrase:


    Not demographically certainly, but in terms of being about to function in–much less run–a modern civilization.
     
    Blacks are "history's losers" only in the context of being at or near the bottom of any racial ranking of "functions well economically and socially in modern industrial nations".

    Blacks have done incredibly well demographically since contact with Europeans. As i've pointed out blacks have had the greatest unearned demographic expansion in the history of planet--expanding into the Western Hemisphere, which they could have never discovered or conquerored on their own. And the last century has seen an incredibly population explosion in Africa entirely due to white medicine, technology, industry lowering their death rates and increasing Africa's carrying capacity.

    One of the hilarities of multicultral "thought"--if you can call it "thought"--is this idea of the white man's oppression holding back the progress of blacks. The white man has oppressed blacks so badly their population has soared 10, 12, maybe 15x. No that's oppression!

    , @SunBakedSuburb
    "... somehow high intelligence in the modern world leads to cat ladyhood ... "

    True and funny. But the intelligent modern world is also filled to the brim with doggy wuvers. See how much your doggy wuvs you after not feeding it for twenty-four hours.

    "You had better get used to a world that is browner and dumber."

    True and depressing. Sounds like California. I suggest a .45, a 12 gauge pump shotgun, and an AR-15.
    , @Jefferson
    " It’s only when you decide to completely get rid of whitey (Zimbabwe, Haiti) that things really go south."

    Jamaica got rid of their Whites as well. I can't think of a single member of the Jamaican elite who would be able to pass for White/Whitish.
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  33. Buck says:

    The title of this article “The real Wakanda”, made my mind go in the opposite direction and think of South Korea. According to reviews, the hero leaves the “fake” Wakanda and travels to the “real” South Korea. This might be a little jarring to many observers.

    South Korea had a similar history to much of Africa before the 1960′s but their recent pasts are diametrically opposed. Korea endured centuries of dominance by strong neighbors which treated it as a vassel state or outright colony. After the end of colonization by the Japanese, it had a devastating civil war. That was also the case for many African countries in the 20th century, colonization, decolonization, civil war. But then South Korea built a technologically advanced society, a real Wakanda, whereas African nations became basket cases and AIDS factories.

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  34. Barnard says:

    Ethiopian Christians claim to have been keeping the Ark of the Covenant for 3,000 years, safely guarded by monks in Aksum. One monk is declared the guardian of the ark and is the only one who is allowed to see it. Like in this account every time a reporter comes around he speaks to the reporter, doesn’t really tell him anything useful and then the translator tells the reporter, “you’re lucky, because he refuses most requests to see him.” I wonder how big a bribe you have to pay to get him to tell you he can’t tell you anything about the ark.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/keepers-of-the-lost-ark-179998820/

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  35. TheJester says:

    China has always been intriguing. Imagine a billion ants building the world’s biggest anthill. Then, they put a “lantern on top of the hill” to prove (to themselves anyway) that they are the wave of the future.

    Black don’t have to build the world’s biggest anthill to prove they are the wave of the future. Someone just has to script a movie with a lot of special effects to prove the same thing.

    The sadness is that both are equally credible in the public’s eye. It’s all about how one manipulates illusions and delusions.

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  36. Arclight says:
    @Jack D
    Funny, for "history's losers" they have completely taken over the Caribbean and squeezed out the white race. A few hundred thousand imported slaves are now tens of millions in the US. Evolution only cares about reproductive success and not any other kind.

    Maybe blacks are not the greatest geniuses but somehow high intelligence in the modern world leads to cat ladyhood and far below replacement birth rates. You had better get used to a world that is browner and dumber. Maybe you don't really need that many smart people to keep a civilization running. In (most parts of) the Caribbean society functions pretty well with only a sprinkling of whites. It's only when you decide to completely get rid of whitey (Zimbabwe, Haiti) that things really go south.

    If we had a semi-rational government (and this goes for Europe as well) they would look at the Middle East and Africa and a) cut off aid, b) halt refugee admissions from those areas, and buckle down and let nature take its course for a few generations. It will be violent and ugly, but in the long run its better for humanity if both areas are subject to the selective pressures of warfare and resource scarcity for a bit, whereas we have stupidly enabled massive overpopulation and resettlement.

    Read More
    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Doug
    > areas are subject to the selective pressures of warfare and resource scarcity for a bit, whereas we have stupidly enabled massive overpopulation and resettlement.

    This is silly. Birth control and female education have undeniable success at lowering third world birth rates. If the goal is to stop overpopulation, it can be done for a pittance. The UN and Western NGOs have gotten very very good at delivering contraception and basic female education to even the most remote and poor regions. It's simply a matter of funding these initiatives, which have largely been cutoff in the past two decades.

    Regardless of whether their IQs are lower or their time preference shorter, the people you're talking about are still human beings. Letting war and hunger ravage people, because we're too cheap and short sighted to air drop condoms is nasty and dumb.

    Even from a purely sociopathic perspective, there's no evidence that your solution would even work. Even without aid or refugees these third world countries still have access to Western technology. Modern agriculture has gotten so good that even applied haphazardly and half-correctly will still yield huge gains relative to pre-industrial harvests. War and hunger checked Africa's population in 1800, but its unlikely to do so in 2100, unless we blockade the entire continent from ever importing fertilizer or crop seeds.

    Birth control and female education are the only reliable solution to contains third world populations from busting the Malthusian seams.
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  37. Jack D says:
    @Arclight
    The mania for Wakanka sort of reminds me of a statement TNC made some years ago...the gist of which is that he needs to believe in certain ideas about American blacks (like their condition is entirely the fault of white racism) because the alternative is that they are just basically history's losers, which is too painful to contemplate. I am sympathetic to this view up to a point, except unlike a lot of other groups who decided they are sick of being on the bottom and work over generations to find a place in society, it is now just a catch-all excuse that accompanies a demand that they be given special treatment.

    In 1896, Walker, the President of MIT, wrote in the Atlantic of the then current immigration wave of E. European Jews, Southern Italians, etc.:

    The entrance into our political, social, and industrial life of such vast masses of peasantry, degraded below our utmost conceptions, is a matter which no intelligent patriot can look upon without the gravest apprehension and alarm. These people have no history behind them which is of a nature to give encouragement. They have none of the inherited instincts and tendencies which made it comparatively easy to deal with the immigration of the olden time. They are beaten men from beaten races; representing the worst failures in the struggle for existence. Centuries are against them, as centuries were on the side of those who formerly came to us. They have none of the ideas and aptitudes which fit men to take up readily and easily the problem of self-care and self-government, such as belong to those who are descended from the tribes that met under the oak-trees of old Germany to make laws and choose chieftains.

    The President of MIT today is a Jew from Venezuela who spoke Yiddish to his parents growing up. Less than 40 years after Walker wrote, the Germans took up self-government with a vengeance.

    So you have to watch who you are calling a loser. That being said, blacks have been here for over 300 years and don’t seem to be in danger of breaking out and showing their true genius any time soon.

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    • Replies: @Arclight
    You are right that you need to watch who you call a loser, but the comments you cite (and I have ancestry from all of them) are sort of ridiculous in that they refer to people who built important cities, made major contribution to music and the arts, and have scientific and engineering achievements as well. None of those things apply to the majority of sub-Saharan Africa prior to colonialism. That particular region of the world was a solid 1000 years behind the people who took over their continent at least - that's not winning.
    , @RadicalCenter
    My ancestors in Italy were far more advanced, civilizationally, than the late ignorant Mr. Walker’s ancestors were at the same time, for many centuries. So yes, be careful about calling Italians losers of history.

    By contrast, with most African nations and tribes, we are not in much danger in underestimating their civilizational achievements and aptitude.
    , @AnotherDad
    Jack, what's even the argumentative point of your comment?

    Logically, it's
    -- once upon a time someone said something disparaging about some (vaguely defined) group of people, which turned out to be incorrect (or at least incomplete)
    -- ergo calling another group of people 'history's losers" is fraught (or something?)

    Hey, someone once called Janey "ugly" and she turned out to be reasonably cute girl, so watch it calling that Oklahoma two-sacker "ugly". Ok.

    If we're on a blog about noticing human differences, one of the *most* noticeable--both observationally and statistically (academic tests, crime and income statistics)--is that blacks just don't perform very well in modern white civilized societies. And not just relative to whites, but to pretty much all other groups trying their hands at it.

    We can all be "polite" and good non-"racist!" liberals and bury our heads in the sand about it. Or we can actually use our brains and say "yes there is a very clear long historical pattern here--worldwide--of black underperformance". And then draw whatever from that whatever we can in terms of intellectual understanding (sociological and historical interpretation), policy recommendations, etc.
    , @Anonymous

    The President of MIT today is a Jew from Venezuela who spoke Yiddish to his parents
     
    That's the official auto-hagiography concocted to hide the prosaic but less romantic truth: like most reasonably educated European Jews, the family almost certainly spoke German. The Yiddish vernacular would be eschewed except for comic effect and a few colorful phrases.
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  38. This mania for Wakanda demonstrates a common human characteristic.

    A conservative believes that in some mythical past there was a perfect place in which a perfect people lived perfect lives. Everything since has been downhill. Each succeeding generation is a step down from the initial goodness. So, in Greek mythology humanity had once upon a time lived in the noble Golden Era. They then successively degenerated, having gone through the less noble Silver and Bronze and are now in the plebeian Iron Age.

    Similarly there is Kali cycle in the Indian tradition with the Yuga age today (naturally) a time of universal suffering and evil.

    So there was an initial incarnation which was perfect and which then served as a template from which succeeding generations are molded. And like a mold, it wears out. Each succeeding iteration takes away some of the fine-grained detail from the mold and as it deteriorates, each succeeding copy is less perfect than its predecessor. Plato enshrined this process in his philosophy. The material world is just an imperfect copy of the world of Ideal Forms (what we today conceive as mental categories of the Understanding).

    In politics some people worship the words of the Founding Fathers and treat them as though they were sacred texts that can be neither questioned nor improved upon. In religion some believe the perfect Truth to have been revealed by having been written in stone and handed down from the tribal Diety himself to a noble man standing alone upon a sacred spot.

    Contrast the aforementioned with Darwinism in which each succeeding generation is seen as becoming more fit, better adapted, more sophisticated; evolving towards ever more elaborately structured forms designed to fit a finer niche. This is the essence of Progressivism. By my way of thinking, most persons who read and contribute to Unz are progressives, not conservatives.

    That both these tendencies are alive and well today is seen in the science of DNA replication. Gene replication is imperfect and incorporates flaws. Sometimes these flaws can kill us as when they metastasize into tumors or endow their inheritor with disabling traits, but they can also give rise to beneficial adaptations which enables us to survive. They can be either degenerative or progressive.

    Always the conservative believes in a past which was more perfect than today while a progressive believes we are evolving towards a better future.

    So there’s really nothing new in this Wakanda fascination, this yearning for a mythological past of perfect peace and prosperity. It’s a theme of conservatives everywhere and black people have shown by their culture’s ineptness at incorporating technical innovation that they are the most conservative people on Earth and it is this very conservatism which sets them at odds with Faustian, Euro/white civilization.

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  39. @Jack D
    Another Ethiopian mania occurred in Israel. There was some Ethiopian tribe that had a few vaguely Jewish customs, maybe introduced by a passing Jewish merchant or even a Christian missionary (history in semi-literate places is a vague thing). Somehow, someone in Israel decided that they were really Jews. An oppressed community of Jews in danger for their lives (in Ethiopian this tribe was considered low caste and not treated well) and THIS TIME Israel would save them. The head Sephardi Rabbi, always anxious for more followers to vote for his patronage based political party, CERTIFIED they were Jewish. And Israel flew over 100,000 of these primitive tribesmen. Their integration with Israeli society has gone about as well as you would have expected - not so hot.

    The Falasha. Unlike the Tibeto-Burmese mongoloid “Bnei-Menashe”, the Falasha may well be Judaic. Integration of this long isolated and disadvantaged Ethiopian tribe into Asheknazi-dominated Israel has indeed gone poorly, as could have been predicted. There was a lot of hype and self-congratulation in Israel about evacuating them out of Ethiopia during the time of the Marxist regime.

    There’s more than cursory evidence, including the presence of Hebrew words in the Ethiopian languages( including liturgical language), that Ethiopia was quite possibly mostly Judaic before the arrival of early Christianity in the 3rd-4th Century A.D.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    I wouldn't call Israel "Ashkenazi dominated" - modern Israel is roughly split between Ashkenazi and Sephardi with a lot of mixing in younger generations.

    If Ethiopians are ALL Jewish then they should ALL be brought over. Amharic is a Semitic language so naturally there is overlap with Hebrew.
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  40. Jack D says:
    @Corvinus
    "There are four and a half distinct races in sub-Saharan Africa: Negroes, Nilotics, Pygmies, Hottentots, and that Cushitic race salad in the Horn."

    No, these groups are NOT "distinct races", but are particular tribal ethnic groups. The "Hottentots" are actually the Khoikhoi, or Khoi, peoples, who practiced pastoral agriculture. It was the Dutch who labeled them in this fashion. In essence, they created a concept based on their particular worldview at the time.

    Sub-Saharan Africans are Negroid/Black.

    Regardless, "Black Panther" is a film, The Coalition of the Right and the Coalition of the Left are having a field day crafting their narrative--"race realism" vs. "race power". In the end, those who see the movie are desiring to be entertained, and generally not thinking about the movie from a Sailerian or SJW lens.

    Putting aside that “race does not exist”, if you look at, for example, a Bushman (Khoisan), a Bantu and an Ethiopian you can pretty clearly see that they don’t really look like each other, while they resemble their fellow “tribesmen” a lot. This goes with Steve’s idea that races are really just (very) extended families.

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    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    A. Ethiopians are diverse--no I'm not parodying your people, they really are--. You people just don't look enough, it's the equivalent of my concluding that all Americans are buff blondes.

    i. So I could find a Tutsi or Fulani, hell I know some Igbo who look Ethiopian, ditto a Hutu that looks Ethiopian.

    B. A Scandinavian looks nothing like the Mediterranean, yet people on here keep classifying them as part of the "White race". I don't claim to be an expert, but surely these variations are a matter of adaptation to diet and climate?

    -----
    Tell me the difference between Desalegn: https://www.google.com.ng/search?q=Hailemariam+Desalegn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjnj5Gx46XZAhUC-6QKHXAVAeAQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=662

    and Peter Obi: https://www.google.com.ng/search?biw=1366&bih=662&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=JV2EWvG2HMKSsAf1obO4Bg&q=peter+obi&oq=peter+obi&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l10.44292.45880.0.46153.9.9.0.0.0.0.261.922.2-4.4.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..5.4.919...0i67k1.0.qxzKzkeSoGc

    There are no representative pictures of the Fulani/Ethiopian mix I was talking about, but personally, I've seen Fulani who have the angular features of Ethiopian stereotype.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    Around the time of the last-but-one set of Kenyan elections (2007/8) the BBC news website showed a useful map of the tribes round Nairobi - turned out to be rather a lot of them, maybe 25 or so.

    Now to me, one Kenyan looks pretty like another, except the difference between the Nilotics and the rest. But a Kenyan street mob could easily tell which of the 25 tribes you belonged to, and so whether or not you should be beaten to death.
    , @Corvinus
    “Funny, for “history’s losers” they have completely taken over the Caribbean and squeezed out the white race. A few hundred thousand imported slaves are now tens of millions in the US. Evolution only cares about reproductive success and not any other kind.”

    Perhaps you are way overemphasizing evolution and the white race. Why not focus on people instead?

    “Maybe blacks are not the greatest geniuses but somehow high intelligence in the modern world leads to cat ladyhood and far below replacement birth rates.”

    I truly cannot wrap my head around this Alt Right obsession on below replacement birth rates. It sounds like a cult.

    "Putting aside that “race does not exist”, if you look at, for example, a Bushman (Khoisan), a Bantu and an Ethiopian you can pretty clearly see that they don’t really look like each other, while they resemble their fellow “tribesmen” a lot. This goes with Steve’s idea that races are really just (very) extended families."

    Race does exist--it is a biological and social construct. People put labels on the things to make sense of their world. For example, the California spotted owl is an animal, i.e. a biological construct. The name of the creature is a human designation—-strix occidentalis. That is, binomial nomenclature refers to a formal system, developed by human beings, to name a species. The California owl was not a “California owl” until someone actually and specifically named it.
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  41. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    Funny, for "history's losers" they have completely taken over the Caribbean and squeezed out the white race. A few hundred thousand imported slaves are now tens of millions in the US. Evolution only cares about reproductive success and not any other kind.

    Maybe blacks are not the greatest geniuses but somehow high intelligence in the modern world leads to cat ladyhood and far below replacement birth rates. You had better get used to a world that is browner and dumber. Maybe you don't really need that many smart people to keep a civilization running. In (most parts of) the Caribbean society functions pretty well with only a sprinkling of whites. It's only when you decide to completely get rid of whitey (Zimbabwe, Haiti) that things really go south.

    The wrath of the Saxon is going to wake up any moment now. Oh look, potato chips!

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  42. Doug says:
    @Arclight
    If we had a semi-rational government (and this goes for Europe as well) they would look at the Middle East and Africa and a) cut off aid, b) halt refugee admissions from those areas, and buckle down and let nature take its course for a few generations. It will be violent and ugly, but in the long run its better for humanity if both areas are subject to the selective pressures of warfare and resource scarcity for a bit, whereas we have stupidly enabled massive overpopulation and resettlement.

    > areas are subject to the selective pressures of warfare and resource scarcity for a bit, whereas we have stupidly enabled massive overpopulation and resettlement.

    This is silly. Birth control and female education have undeniable success at lowering third world birth rates. If the goal is to stop overpopulation, it can be done for a pittance. The UN and Western NGOs have gotten very very good at delivering contraception and basic female education to even the most remote and poor regions. It’s simply a matter of funding these initiatives, which have largely been cutoff in the past two decades.

    Regardless of whether their IQs are lower or their time preference shorter, the people you’re talking about are still human beings. Letting war and hunger ravage people, because we’re too cheap and short sighted to air drop condoms is nasty and dumb.

    Even from a purely sociopathic perspective, there’s no evidence that your solution would even work. Even without aid or refugees these third world countries still have access to Western technology. Modern agriculture has gotten so good that even applied haphazardly and half-correctly will still yield huge gains relative to pre-industrial harvests. War and hunger checked Africa’s population in 1800, but its unlikely to do so in 2100, unless we blockade the entire continent from ever importing fertilizer or crop seeds.

    Birth control and female education are the only reliable solution to contains third world populations from busting the Malthusian seams.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Barnard

    It’s simply a matter of funding these initiatives, which have largely been cutoff in the past two decades.
     
    Who is cutting off the funding? The Gates Foundation, among many other groups have been funding these initiatives at high levels. The problem is that they aren't having that much success lower birthrates so far. Residents of third world countries need a lot of persuasion to have fewer children.
    , @nebulafox
    Outside of Africa, the world as a whole has done a pretty good job of cutting down on birth rates. You have your outliers here and there-Pakistan, Philippines (Duterte's open hostility to the Catholic Church stems not least from this issue), etc-but Brazil, India, Mexico, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Iran are all down to two kids per woman. These are countries that would have been at 6 not eons ago. China, South Korea, too, were at 6 kids per woman in the 1950s, and they've gone below replacement rate. Even the likes of Saudi Arabia is down to three children per woman. Etc, etc. So, not to go all Dr. Pangloss, but most of humanity has gotten their act together on this issue, even conservative Muslim cultures. Places like South Asia are still going to experience a "demographic wave", as is the norm for countries at their stage of development, but they've at least capped the peak, and now that they've stopped the proverbial bleeding, they can prepare for that wave.

    That Trump has listened to the arguments of the old Dubya crowd on this issue is highly irresponsible, needless to say. Condoms, abortions, female education, latter marriage, financial incentives for sterilization, the fear of punishment, economic or social, the simple realization that you can afford to do more with a few kids-whatever works to get people to practice family planning. The tools matter less than the result, which would massively improve the lives of both Africans and Westerners. That said, it isn't purely the West's fault here. It isn't just a matter of funding these kinds of programs from the outside-you also have to get the local governments to embrace it and carry it out. African governments that are willing to do so and are capable of carrying out the necessary policy measures (in Lee Kwan Yew-esque authoritarian fashion if necessary, as... will probably be the case more times than the Wilsonians in the State Department want to admit) are doing so: Paul Kagame's Rwanda serves as one particular example.

    One that cannot, or worse yet, actively do not want to, on the other hand...

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/25/africa/africa-population-growth-un/index.html

    http://www.dw.com/en/africa-population-growth-key-at-au-summit/a-39505136

    , @Reg Cæsar

    because we’re too cheap and short sighted to air drop condoms is nasty and dumb
     
    Air-drop all the condoms you want. At your own expense. Leave the rest of us out of it.
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  43. It’s interesting that Ethiopia is the only sub-Saharan African country to have a noteworthy cuisine, or at least the only one to have ethnic restaurants. While it’s tasty, I wonder how much of it has been catered to American tastes.

    And for what it’s worth, Ethiopian women are the most attractive black women on the planet.

    Thing is, Ethiopians and Somalians look very different from other Sub-Saharan Africans. Enough so that I almost consider them a separate race.

    And speaking of which, I’ve noticed Ethiopian immigrants don’t seem to anywhere near the troublemakers that Somalis are. Probably for two reasons; 1. We were more selective with the Ethiopians, never bringing them in as refugees, and 2. The dysgenic effects of Islam (i.e. Somalis are to Ethiopians as Pakistanis are to Indians).

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    A lot of the first wave of Ethiopians were royalist refugees from the Communist overthrow of the emperor. E.g., the beautiful Ethiopian girl I met at UCLA was the daughter of the emperor's ambassador to Washington. She probably had a lengthy pedigree in aristocratic guidebooks to genealogy.
    , @Hare Krishna
    Somali cuisine is better than Ethiopian, as it has more influence from Arab and Indian cuisines. They do have ethnic restaurants in the US, but not as many as Ethiopians.

    The Ethiopian diaspora has been more successful in the US than the Somali diaspora, though, which is because the Ethiopians are Christians.
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  44. @Jack D
    Funny, for "history's losers" they have completely taken over the Caribbean and squeezed out the white race. A few hundred thousand imported slaves are now tens of millions in the US. Evolution only cares about reproductive success and not any other kind.

    Maybe blacks are not the greatest geniuses but somehow high intelligence in the modern world leads to cat ladyhood and far below replacement birth rates. You had better get used to a world that is browner and dumber. Maybe you don't really need that many smart people to keep a civilization running. In (most parts of) the Caribbean society functions pretty well with only a sprinkling of whites. It's only when you decide to completely get rid of whitey (Zimbabwe, Haiti) that things really go south.

    Both the Amish and Ultra-Orthodox Jews have higher birth rates and higher levels of intelligence. Don’t count out the white race; the American Empire may commit suicide by leftism, but its collapse will bring about organized violence which whites excel at.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Both the Amish and Ultra-Orthodox Jews have higher birth rates and higher levels of intelligence.
     
    The Amish have IQs that are over the White American mean (100)?
    , @Flip
    I've heard the opposite of Amish IQ given their inbreeding. I don't know how ultra Orthodox Jews compare to garden variety Jews, but I suspect it is lower.
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  45. Jack D says:
    @PiltdownMan
    The Falasha. Unlike the Tibeto-Burmese mongoloid "Bnei-Menashe", the Falasha may well be Judaic. Integration of this long isolated and disadvantaged Ethiopian tribe into Asheknazi-dominated Israel has indeed gone poorly, as could have been predicted. There was a lot of hype and self-congratulation in Israel about evacuating them out of Ethiopia during the time of the Marxist regime.

    There's more than cursory evidence, including the presence of Hebrew words in the Ethiopian languages( including liturgical language), that Ethiopia was quite possibly mostly Judaic before the arrival of early Christianity in the 3rd-4th Century A.D.

    I wouldn’t call Israel “Ashkenazi dominated” – modern Israel is roughly split between Ashkenazi and Sephardi with a lot of mixing in younger generations.

    If Ethiopians are ALL Jewish then they should ALL be brought over. Amharic is a Semitic language so naturally there is overlap with Hebrew.

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  46. Tamaqua says:

    I want an updated version of this classic.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1csr0dxalpI

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  47. Arclight says:
    @Jack D
    In 1896, Walker, the President of MIT, wrote in the Atlantic of the then current immigration wave of E. European Jews, Southern Italians, etc.:

    The entrance into our political, social, and industrial life of such vast masses of peasantry, degraded below our utmost conceptions, is a matter which no intelligent patriot can look upon without the gravest apprehension and alarm. These people have no history behind them which is of a nature to give encouragement. They have none of the inherited instincts and tendencies which made it comparatively easy to deal with the immigration of the olden time. They are beaten men from beaten races; representing the worst failures in the struggle for existence. Centuries are against them, as centuries were on the side of those who formerly came to us. They have none of the ideas and aptitudes which fit men to take up readily and easily the problem of self-care and self-government, such as belong to those who are descended from the tribes that met under the oak-trees of old Germany to make laws and choose chieftains.
     
    The President of MIT today is a Jew from Venezuela who spoke Yiddish to his parents growing up. Less than 40 years after Walker wrote, the Germans took up self-government with a vengeance.

    So you have to watch who you are calling a loser. That being said, blacks have been here for over 300 years and don't seem to be in danger of breaking out and showing their true genius any time soon.

    You are right that you need to watch who you call a loser, but the comments you cite (and I have ancestry from all of them) are sort of ridiculous in that they refer to people who built important cities, made major contribution to music and the arts, and have scientific and engineering achievements as well. None of those things apply to the majority of sub-Saharan Africa prior to colonialism. That particular region of the world was a solid 1000 years behind the people who took over their continent at least – that’s not winning.

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    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    Really, the Germans had important cities and scientific achievements before colonisation?

    That's Wakanda levels of fantasy.
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  48. nebulafox says:
    @Jack D
    Funny, for "history's losers" they have completely taken over the Caribbean and squeezed out the white race. A few hundred thousand imported slaves are now tens of millions in the US. Evolution only cares about reproductive success and not any other kind.

    Maybe blacks are not the greatest geniuses but somehow high intelligence in the modern world leads to cat ladyhood and far below replacement birth rates. You had better get used to a world that is browner and dumber. Maybe you don't really need that many smart people to keep a civilization running. In (most parts of) the Caribbean society functions pretty well with only a sprinkling of whites. It's only when you decide to completely get rid of whitey (Zimbabwe, Haiti) that things really go south.

    >Evolution only cares about reproductive success and not any other kind.

    >In (most parts of) the Caribbean society functions pretty well with only a sprinkling of whites.

    Central America-to be distinguished from Mexico-is much in the same mold if you replace blacks with indios and occasionally add in a mostly Maronite/Palestinian Christian middleman immigrant class (highly unpopular with the masses, which the local political demagogues use to their advantage) in addition to the creole white elite. It’s ultra-violent and corrupt as all hell, but it beats anarchy.

    >Even from a purely sociopathic perspective, there’s no evidence that your solution would even work.

    You can add on the fact that if people realize they are being left to starve en masse in the name of reasserting natural selection, realizing they have nothing to lose by not doing so, they’ll attempt to flood the gates to the West.

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  49. @PiltdownMan
    Great article, Steve. Thanks.

    Ethiopia's dominant group, the Amharas, are phenotypically different from most sub-Saharan African groups, and their features put them closer to Egypts Copts or Arabs in the Gulf. That portrait of Haile Selassie is a good example.

    They have always been conscious of this, as well as proud of their ancient Christianity, and consider themselves to be separate from the peoples, cultures and the Africanist political traditions (such as they are) in the other parts of the continent.

    During the time of the Emperor in the post-War period, Addis Ababa was one of the more cosmopolitan African cities, with a curious mix of non-third-world Italian and Southern European/Levantine cultures and facilities—it had nice restaurants, department stores and delis—and a middle-ages local culture centered around its ancient churches and colorfully dressed clergy. And Ethiopian Airlines, one of the modernizing initiatives by the Emperor, deservedly had a reputation for being one of the world's nicest airlines .

    http://theethiopianworldfederationinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Clergy.jpg

    Bit out of date mate, Ethiopia’s dominant grouping are the Tigrayans these days. Looking forward to seeing the theory update.

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    • Replies: @Obsessive Contrarian
    I don't pretend any specialist or insider knowledge of Ethiopia so hence my question, what about the Oromo?

    Sir Peter Ustinov was 1/16th "Ethiopian" i.e., descended of Oromo royalty. One of his forebears was a German Christian-Jewish-convert adventurer who traveled in Ethiopia and married a half-German half-Oromo royal woman. They moved to Palestine and raised a large family, owned a lot of land in Jaffa. I don't know how Ustinov came to be born in England.
    , @PiltdownMan
    If by dominant, you mean most populous, no.

    I checked to see if anything had changed significantly. Nothing has. There are about 6 million Tigrayans and 19 million Amharas.

    It's true the Tigrayans have been kicking up a fuss about being neglected and wanting to go their own way, and have been for a long time, as they are the furthest removed, geographically, from the center of power in Addis Ababa, and so they do "dominate" national politics, in that sense.

    In terms of the demography, the Oromo speakers, with their numerous sub-ethnicities, are the most populous, followed by the Amhara, who are a less differentiated group.

    How's life in Lagos?
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  50. @Jack D
    Funny, for "history's losers" they have completely taken over the Caribbean and squeezed out the white race. A few hundred thousand imported slaves are now tens of millions in the US. Evolution only cares about reproductive success and not any other kind.

    Maybe blacks are not the greatest geniuses but somehow high intelligence in the modern world leads to cat ladyhood and far below replacement birth rates. You had better get used to a world that is browner and dumber. Maybe you don't really need that many smart people to keep a civilization running. In (most parts of) the Caribbean society functions pretty well with only a sprinkling of whites. It's only when you decide to completely get rid of whitey (Zimbabwe, Haiti) that things really go south.

    Funny, for “history’s losers” they have completely taken over the Caribbean and squeezed out the white race. A few hundred thousand imported slaves are now tens of millions in the US. Evolution only cares about reproductive success and not any other kind.

    Agreed.

    That’s why i specifically inserted the sentence below to clarify Arclight’s “history’s losers” phrase:

    Not demographically certainly, but in terms of being about to function in–much less run–a modern civilization.

    Blacks are “history’s losers” only in the context of being at or near the bottom of any racial ranking of “functions well economically and socially in modern industrial nations”.

    Blacks have done incredibly well demographically since contact with Europeans. As i’ve pointed out blacks have had the greatest unearned demographic expansion in the history of planet–expanding into the Western Hemisphere, which they could have never discovered or conquerored on their own. And the last century has seen an incredibly population explosion in Africa entirely due to white medicine, technology, industry lowering their death rates and increasing Africa’s carrying capacity.

    One of the hilarities of multicultral “thought”–if you can call it “thought”–is this idea of the white man’s oppression holding back the progress of blacks. The white man has oppressed blacks so badly their population has soared 10, 12, maybe 15x. No that’s oppression!

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    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    *Sigh*

    Did you skip demand and supply class or were you never thought?

    Further, the idea of "White man" belongs is simply absurd, think it through reductio ad absurdum. You're writing in Greek letters, communicating with bits of codes made up of Arabic numerals e.t.c.
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  51. Marcus(e) says:

    I recall reading Ezra Pound or Wyndham Lewis, both admirers of Mussolini (Pound thought him akin to Jefferson in his fight for the common people against financial depredations) snarkily mentioning the (((guy))) who was running the show in Ethiopia, whispering in Selassie’s ear (Lewis said, “Those slave-driving Semitic overlords, of whom Haile Selassie was the chief, did very little with Abyssinia. They, the workmen of Italy, would put all this land to better and more civilized uses. Italy has been named ‘the great Proletarian.”), but I can’t remember his name. Come to think of it, it might’ve been Lewis who named him, in Count Your Dead: They are Alive! A quick search brings up the following, but none of these are ringing a bell:

    July 10, 1942
    JERUSALEM (Jul. 9)

    Nathan Marein, a Jewish lawyer from the United States, left here yesterday for Addis Ababa to assume the post of legal adviser to Haile Selassie, the emperor of Ethiopia. He was given an impressive farewell reception by leaders of the Abyssinian community.

    During the Italian occupation of Ethiopia, Marein, as legal consultant to the Abyssinian consulate here, successfully thwarted Italian attempts to secure possession of Ethiopian holdings in Palestine. He lived in America before World War I and came to Palestine during the war to join the Jewish Legion with which he fought. After the war he returned to America where he studied law and subsequently returned here. His wife still lives in Boston, Mass.

    Then there’s this: With the financial assistance of Baron Edmond de Rothschild and the Chief Rabbi of Paris, Jacques Faitlovitch (Polish-born Orthodox Jew) took the first of numerous trips to Ethiopia in 1904…A few of Faitlovitch’s students served in the Ethiopian government. The most prominent were Taamrat Emmanuel, a diplomat and political adviser to Haile Selassie, and his nephew, Tadesse Jacob, Ethiopia’s finance minister in the early 1920s.

    Finally, this starts to bring us up to modern days: Israel’s relationship with Ethiopia began in the prestate period when, acting on behalf of the British government, the Zionist community in Palestine provided financial and military assistance to the forces of Emperor Haile Selassie in their efforts to evict the evading Italian army.

    Of course, life for the Falasha hasn’t been the best in Israel.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/black-israelis-riot-over-insult-to-their-blood-1326412.html

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  52. @Jack D
    Putting aside that "race does not exist", if you look at, for example, a Bushman (Khoisan), a Bantu and an Ethiopian you can pretty clearly see that they don't really look like each other, while they resemble their fellow "tribesmen" a lot. This goes with Steve's idea that races are really just (very) extended families.

    A. Ethiopians are diverse–no I’m not parodying your people, they really are–. You people just don’t look enough, it’s the equivalent of my concluding that all Americans are buff blondes.

    i. So I could find a Tutsi or Fulani, hell I know some Igbo who look Ethiopian, ditto a Hutu that looks Ethiopian.

    B. A Scandinavian looks nothing like the Mediterranean, yet people on here keep classifying them as part of the “White race”. I don’t claim to be an expert, but surely these variations are a matter of adaptation to diet and climate?

    —–
    Tell me the difference between Desalegn: https://www.google.com.ng/search?q=Hailemariam+Desalegn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjnj5Gx46XZAhUC-6QKHXAVAeAQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=662

    and Peter Obi: https://www.google.com.ng/search?biw=1366&bih=662&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=JV2EWvG2HMKSsAf1obO4Bg&q=peter+obi&oq=peter+obi&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l10.44292.45880.0.46153.9.9.0.0.0.0.261.922.2-4.4.0….0…1c.1.64.psy-ab..5.4.919…0i67k1.0.qxzKzkeSoGc

    There are no representative pictures of the Fulani/Ethiopian mix I was talking about, but personally, I’ve seen Fulani who have the angular features of Ethiopian stereotype.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    I realize that in Africa in general it's more useful to speak about tribe rather than nationality but most Americans wouldn't know an Igbo from a Fulani if one hit them.

    2nd it's possible to speak about a national "look" even if many people deviate from the stereotype or there are several phenotypes - there are Jews who look like Aryan poster boys and Nazis who look Jewish, but most people know what you are talking about if you say that X looks German or Y looks Jewish. Similarly there is a certain average Ethiopian "look" which on the whole looks different than the average Igbo appearance, even though there are many exceptions in both groups.

    I would say that the giveaway is usually the nose - even if the Igbo woman has straightened her hair and lightened her skin, her nose is always going to be broader at the nostrils than an Ethiopian nose in almost all cases. Also Ethiopians tend to have long faces with V shaped chins. The chin shape is distinctive.
    , @anon
    There are many types of different apes in this world, but they are still apes.

    Black apes, yellow apes, red apes, brown apes, white men.

    One is not like the others.
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  53. Barnard says:
    @Doug
    > areas are subject to the selective pressures of warfare and resource scarcity for a bit, whereas we have stupidly enabled massive overpopulation and resettlement.

    This is silly. Birth control and female education have undeniable success at lowering third world birth rates. If the goal is to stop overpopulation, it can be done for a pittance. The UN and Western NGOs have gotten very very good at delivering contraception and basic female education to even the most remote and poor regions. It's simply a matter of funding these initiatives, which have largely been cutoff in the past two decades.

    Regardless of whether their IQs are lower or their time preference shorter, the people you're talking about are still human beings. Letting war and hunger ravage people, because we're too cheap and short sighted to air drop condoms is nasty and dumb.

    Even from a purely sociopathic perspective, there's no evidence that your solution would even work. Even without aid or refugees these third world countries still have access to Western technology. Modern agriculture has gotten so good that even applied haphazardly and half-correctly will still yield huge gains relative to pre-industrial harvests. War and hunger checked Africa's population in 1800, but its unlikely to do so in 2100, unless we blockade the entire continent from ever importing fertilizer or crop seeds.

    Birth control and female education are the only reliable solution to contains third world populations from busting the Malthusian seams.

    It’s simply a matter of funding these initiatives, which have largely been cutoff in the past two decades.

    Who is cutting off the funding? The Gates Foundation, among many other groups have been funding these initiatives at high levels. The problem is that they aren’t having that much success lower birthrates so far. Residents of third world countries need a lot of persuasion to have fewer children.

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    • Replies: @Doug
    > Who is cutting off the funding?

    A combination of Republicans, who don't want to touch the reproductive health issues for fear of inflaming the evangelicals, and liberals, who want to avoid any appearance of racism. Trump dissapointingly completely cut off US funding of UNFPA. On this, Trump is dumb as hell. Every $0.05 the US saves on a condom in South Sudan is a potential $1 million in pubic services to a future unemployable refugee.
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  54. @Arclight
    You are right that you need to watch who you call a loser, but the comments you cite (and I have ancestry from all of them) are sort of ridiculous in that they refer to people who built important cities, made major contribution to music and the arts, and have scientific and engineering achievements as well. None of those things apply to the majority of sub-Saharan Africa prior to colonialism. That particular region of the world was a solid 1000 years behind the people who took over their continent at least - that's not winning.

    Really, the Germans had important cities and scientific achievements before colonisation?

    That’s Wakanda levels of fantasy.

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  55. nebulafox says:
    @Doug
    > areas are subject to the selective pressures of warfare and resource scarcity for a bit, whereas we have stupidly enabled massive overpopulation and resettlement.

    This is silly. Birth control and female education have undeniable success at lowering third world birth rates. If the goal is to stop overpopulation, it can be done for a pittance. The UN and Western NGOs have gotten very very good at delivering contraception and basic female education to even the most remote and poor regions. It's simply a matter of funding these initiatives, which have largely been cutoff in the past two decades.

    Regardless of whether their IQs are lower or their time preference shorter, the people you're talking about are still human beings. Letting war and hunger ravage people, because we're too cheap and short sighted to air drop condoms is nasty and dumb.

    Even from a purely sociopathic perspective, there's no evidence that your solution would even work. Even without aid or refugees these third world countries still have access to Western technology. Modern agriculture has gotten so good that even applied haphazardly and half-correctly will still yield huge gains relative to pre-industrial harvests. War and hunger checked Africa's population in 1800, but its unlikely to do so in 2100, unless we blockade the entire continent from ever importing fertilizer or crop seeds.

    Birth control and female education are the only reliable solution to contains third world populations from busting the Malthusian seams.

    Outside of Africa, the world as a whole has done a pretty good job of cutting down on birth rates. You have your outliers here and there-Pakistan, Philippines (Duterte’s open hostility to the Catholic Church stems not least from this issue), etc-but Brazil, India, Mexico, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Iran are all down to two kids per woman. These are countries that would have been at 6 not eons ago. China, South Korea, too, were at 6 kids per woman in the 1950s, and they’ve gone below replacement rate. Even the likes of Saudi Arabia is down to three children per woman. Etc, etc. So, not to go all Dr. Pangloss, but most of humanity has gotten their act together on this issue, even conservative Muslim cultures. Places like South Asia are still going to experience a “demographic wave”, as is the norm for countries at their stage of development, but they’ve at least capped the peak, and now that they’ve stopped the proverbial bleeding, they can prepare for that wave.

    That Trump has listened to the arguments of the old Dubya crowd on this issue is highly irresponsible, needless to say. Condoms, abortions, female education, latter marriage, financial incentives for sterilization, the fear of punishment, economic or social, the simple realization that you can afford to do more with a few kids-whatever works to get people to practice family planning. The tools matter less than the result, which would massively improve the lives of both Africans and Westerners. That said, it isn’t purely the West’s fault here. It isn’t just a matter of funding these kinds of programs from the outside-you also have to get the local governments to embrace it and carry it out. African governments that are willing to do so and are capable of carrying out the necessary policy measures (in Lee Kwan Yew-esque authoritarian fashion if necessary, as… will probably be the case more times than the Wilsonians in the State Department want to admit) are doing so: Paul Kagame’s Rwanda serves as one particular example.

    One that cannot, or worse yet, actively do not want to, on the other hand…

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/25/africa/africa-population-growth-un/index.html

    http://www.dw.com/en/africa-population-growth-key-at-au-summit/a-39505136

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Outside of Africa, the world as a whole has done a pretty good job of cutting down on birth rates."

    One day I can see Africa surpassing Asia in population, maybe even during my lifetime because I'm still quite young and am nowhere close yet to qualify for AARP.

    , @PiltdownMan

    So, not to go all Dr. Pangloss, but most of humanity has gotten their act together on this issue, even conservative Muslim cultures.
     
    The most populous Muslim societies, India, Indonesia, and Bangladesh have. Pakistan hasn't.

    The societies to watch are the oil rich Gulf States and the currently less populous Muslim countries like Afghanistan. Saudi Arabia has gone from 5 million to 30+ million since the first oil price boom in the early 1970s. Afghanistan has seen a similar change.

    Given that Pakistan's population (then West Pakistan) was 33 million in 1947 and is now 207 million, it is important to watch the demographics of these countries closely for the foreseeable future.
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  56. @AnotherDad

    Funny, for “history’s losers” they have completely taken over the Caribbean and squeezed out the white race. A few hundred thousand imported slaves are now tens of millions in the US. Evolution only cares about reproductive success and not any other kind.
     
    Agreed.

    That's why i specifically inserted the sentence below to clarify Arclight's "history's losers" phrase:


    Not demographically certainly, but in terms of being about to function in–much less run–a modern civilization.
     
    Blacks are "history's losers" only in the context of being at or near the bottom of any racial ranking of "functions well economically and socially in modern industrial nations".

    Blacks have done incredibly well demographically since contact with Europeans. As i've pointed out blacks have had the greatest unearned demographic expansion in the history of planet--expanding into the Western Hemisphere, which they could have never discovered or conquerored on their own. And the last century has seen an incredibly population explosion in Africa entirely due to white medicine, technology, industry lowering their death rates and increasing Africa's carrying capacity.

    One of the hilarities of multicultral "thought"--if you can call it "thought"--is this idea of the white man's oppression holding back the progress of blacks. The white man has oppressed blacks so badly their population has soared 10, 12, maybe 15x. No that's oppression!

    *Sigh*

    Did you skip demand and supply class or were you never thought?

    Further, the idea of “White man” belongs is simply absurd, think it through reductio ad absurdum. You’re writing in Greek letters, communicating with bits of codes made up of Arabic numerals e.t.c.

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    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    The Greeks were white. Arabic numerals are from India, presumably invented by the upper castes which have high levels of white admixture. Everything in Western Civilization comes from white people or the Chinese.
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  57. King Baeksu says: • Website

    I spent six weeks in Ethiopia in 2015 after meeting a pair of Ethiopian waitresses in Bahrain who had the endearing custom of feeding me tibs by hand.

    They say that Ethiopian women are the most attractive in Africa, and that must certainly figure in the current population boom there. I myself was not disappointed.

    Addis Ababa was quite cool in July, if often rainy, and air conditioners were unnecessary. It was also blessedly free of mosquitos, and hence any worry of contracting malaria.

    A popular pastime was chewing on speedy chat leaves for hours on end in a neighborhood shisha bar. The one near my hotel had a nice young Muslim waiter to keep the pipes going, and there were recycled US AID sacks in the courtyard filled with coal for the burning.

    Freshly roasted Ethiopian coffee is the best, and is usually enjoyed several times a day in a ceremonial style, with grass strewn about the floor, frankincense filling the air and popcorn served as an accompanying snack.

    I found Addis Ababa to be very safe, even at night, and the locals were generally relaxed and friendly. However, a visit to Shashamane, the Rastafari settlement down in the lowlands, was less pleasant, and at one point I had to escape an especially aggressive Rasta by hopping into a passing motorcycle taxi helmed by helpful grandfather.

    Few recall today that Rimbaud spent a number of years in his later life in Ethiopia, based mainly in the eastern walled town of Harar, filled with hundreds of colorful mosques. He seems to have had a rough time of it surviving as a trader, and even attempted to run guns for Emperor Menelik II without much financial success – although some scholars reckon the antique rifles he had procured helped drive out the Italians in 1896.

    Some time after my visit, I caught a cab in Washington, DC. The driver was a young black man who spoke softly accented English, and so I asked, “Where are you from?” “I’m from the greatest country in the world!” he replied cheerfully. “Ethiopia?” I surmised. “That’s right, man!”

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "They say that Ethiopian women are the most attractive in Africa,"

    I was going to say that the most memorably beautiful coed I met at UCLA in the early 1980s was Ethiopian. She was the daughter of the former Ethiopian Ambassador to the US under the late emperor, so her family tree must have been aristocratic.

    , @Jack D
    Generally speaking Ethiopian women have paler skin than West Africans - coffee with cream instead of black coffee and their hair texture (even before chemical treatments) is wavy/frizzy rather than completely wooly. And their noses are narrower/sharper than W. African noses. So all in all they are closer to the Western beauty ideal.
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  58. That was a good short history of Ethiopia, a country that I’d never given much thought about since I got tired of seeing Meathead’s wife on TV (“Hey, go where the food is!!” [/Bobcat]).

    I noticed on the web-page of your article on Takimag, to my surprise, that you or Taki Takidoplous are under the erroneous impression that I, as the reader, am a stamp collector. The ad shown below is really not anything I’d be interested in, and you would be wise to go back to your previous policy of showing me ads for videos of Oriental girls in bikinis.

    What’s shocking though, is the pure racism of this ad. It’s like the current year is 1850 ADC, in which a black man is worth only 3/5 of a white man. Just look at the denomination of the stamp, sir. 29 cents vs. the current 49 cent stamp price is 3/5, after rounding. I can’t … even ….

    …. use this stamp, as I’d end up covering up the envelope with 1 centers to get a letter mailed.

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    • Replies: @MEH 0910

    (“Hey, go where the food is!!” [/Bobcat]).
     
    I think you mean [/Kinison].
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  59. @Jack D
    In 1896, Walker, the President of MIT, wrote in the Atlantic of the then current immigration wave of E. European Jews, Southern Italians, etc.:

    The entrance into our political, social, and industrial life of such vast masses of peasantry, degraded below our utmost conceptions, is a matter which no intelligent patriot can look upon without the gravest apprehension and alarm. These people have no history behind them which is of a nature to give encouragement. They have none of the inherited instincts and tendencies which made it comparatively easy to deal with the immigration of the olden time. They are beaten men from beaten races; representing the worst failures in the struggle for existence. Centuries are against them, as centuries were on the side of those who formerly came to us. They have none of the ideas and aptitudes which fit men to take up readily and easily the problem of self-care and self-government, such as belong to those who are descended from the tribes that met under the oak-trees of old Germany to make laws and choose chieftains.
     
    The President of MIT today is a Jew from Venezuela who spoke Yiddish to his parents growing up. Less than 40 years after Walker wrote, the Germans took up self-government with a vengeance.

    So you have to watch who you are calling a loser. That being said, blacks have been here for over 300 years and don't seem to be in danger of breaking out and showing their true genius any time soon.

    My ancestors in Italy were far more advanced, civilizationally, than the late ignorant Mr. Walker’s ancestors were at the same time, for many centuries. So yes, be careful about calling Italians losers of history.

    By contrast, with most African nations and tribes, we are not in much danger in underestimating their civilizational achievements and aptitude.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    The paisanos of S. Italy and Sicily were a long way from the glory of Rome (and the shtetl Jews of E. Europe were a long way from King David). By they time the showed up on American shores they had fallen pretty far and were lacking in education and smelled like garlic, so Walker could be forgiven for missing their potential. But of course there was nothing really wrong with them, they had just been oppressed by bad elites for many centuries. Thank God that America doesn't have bad elites!
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  60. @Jack D
    In 1896, Walker, the President of MIT, wrote in the Atlantic of the then current immigration wave of E. European Jews, Southern Italians, etc.:

    The entrance into our political, social, and industrial life of such vast masses of peasantry, degraded below our utmost conceptions, is a matter which no intelligent patriot can look upon without the gravest apprehension and alarm. These people have no history behind them which is of a nature to give encouragement. They have none of the inherited instincts and tendencies which made it comparatively easy to deal with the immigration of the olden time. They are beaten men from beaten races; representing the worst failures in the struggle for existence. Centuries are against them, as centuries were on the side of those who formerly came to us. They have none of the ideas and aptitudes which fit men to take up readily and easily the problem of self-care and self-government, such as belong to those who are descended from the tribes that met under the oak-trees of old Germany to make laws and choose chieftains.
     
    The President of MIT today is a Jew from Venezuela who spoke Yiddish to his parents growing up. Less than 40 years after Walker wrote, the Germans took up self-government with a vengeance.

    So you have to watch who you are calling a loser. That being said, blacks have been here for over 300 years and don't seem to be in danger of breaking out and showing their true genius any time soon.

    Jack, what’s even the argumentative point of your comment?

    Logically, it’s
    – once upon a time someone said something disparaging about some (vaguely defined) group of people, which turned out to be incorrect (or at least incomplete)
    – ergo calling another group of people ‘history’s losers” is fraught (or something?)

    Hey, someone once called Janey “ugly” and she turned out to be reasonably cute girl, so watch it calling that Oklahoma two-sacker “ugly”. Ok.

    If we’re on a blog about noticing human differences, one of the *most* noticeable–both observationally and statistically (academic tests, crime and income statistics)–is that blacks just don’t perform very well in modern white civilized societies. And not just relative to whites, but to pretty much all other groups trying their hands at it.

    We can all be “polite” and good non-”racist!” liberals and bury our heads in the sand about it. Or we can actually use our brains and say “yes there is a very clear long historical pattern here–worldwide–of black underperformance”. And then draw whatever from that whatever we can in terms of intellectual understanding (sociological and historical interpretation), policy recommendations, etc.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    I mostly agree with you - read the last line of my comments. Although just like there are 7 foot tall Chinese basketball players, in a continent of over 1 billion people there are some pretty smart Africans (every year there is a news story about some Nigerian Igbo immigrant who has been accepted by every last Ivy League college - maybe he/she is no great genius but compared to the bunch that we have they stand out).

    But on the whole I think that the odds that American blacks (blacks anywhere) are on the verge of their big breakthrough if only whitey would loosen the screws of racism a little bit more are pretty low at this point. Likewise, I don't have a lot of hope that Mexicans are going to be the new Jews or even the new Southern Italians (although the latter is a little closer) - again Mexicans (meaning Mestizos) have been around for a long time and if they were going to shine they would have already. But, OTOH, I think a lot of the commentariat here misunderestimate the capabilities of the various flavors of Asian and they will be as wrong about them as Walker was about the Ellis Island immigrants. (That being said, capabilities are not the beginning and end of the discussion.)
    , @Harry Baldwin
    – once upon a time someone said something disparaging about some (vaguely defined) group of people, which turned out to be incorrect (or at least incomplete)
    – ergo calling another group of people ‘history’s losers” is fraught (or something?)


    And this sort of logic is the best Steven Pinker can come up with to rebut the alt-right.
    , @utu
    Besides it is debatable (obviously not for Jack D.) whether America with Walker as the president of MIT was worse than America with a Jew from Venezuela as the president of MIT.
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  61. nebulafox says:

    I wouldn’t be so sure that one is “worse” for its domestic citizens than the other-it is basically like comparing two different kinds of torture-but the point is that China in the 1960s really did want to spread revolution abroad in conjunction with the suspension of traditional social norms at home, and was quite willing to risk armed conflict to do so. They took it seriously to a degree that would make Trotsky look moderate. Only when Mao realized that China was not going to become a great world power in their lifetime and that the Cultural Revolution was turning out to be a failure did he, under Zhou Enlai’s window of influence before the final crazy years of Mao’s rule, start to shift, most notably in foreign policy. (Cue Mao and Mobutu’s meeting in 1973. “I spent a lot of money and arms trying to overthrow you.” “Well, you backed the wrong man.”)

    The DPRK has no such interests. As I’ve repeatedly stated in multiple comments, North Korea is not, and has not for quite some time been, motivated by any sort of Marxism. What really keeps the regime going is mystical, racially based ultranationalism in the vein of 1930s Japan, as a quick look at North Korea’s domestic propaganda-not the stuff aimed at external consumption-will make perfectly clear. And that should make perfect sense. Loyalty to your tribe-traditionally funneled through nationalism-has an emotional power like no other force in the world: it can get people to go through things they would never contemplate otherwise. It’s just like how tens of millions of Russians were motivated to suffer and die in WWII not by a couple of abstract German philosophers, but by the old-time Russian nationalism with limited amounts of Orthodox infusions allowed, embraced by Stalin. The Chinese people were pretty sour about the whole internationalism project by the end of it all, whereas North Korea’s people still trudge onward under the current system.

    Kim Jong Un even deleted the last references to Marxism in their constitution in 2013 (yes, the DPRK has one), which fits accordingly with what he’s been doing with the economy there.

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  62. Abe says: • Website

    1. buy two tickets to BLACK PANTHER
    2. ???
    3. win the future!

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  63. syonredux says:

    In 1896, Emperor Menelik II defeated the invading Italians, the only long-term defeat Africans imposed on Europeans in a test of arms in the 19th century.

    TN Coates also seems rather struck by the Wakanda-as-Ethiopia idea, even referencing the Italian defeat at Adwa:

    Wakanda’s status as ever-independent seems to eerily parallel Ethiopia’s history as well as its place in the broader black imagination. Maybe it’s only me, but I can’t read Jason Aaron’s superb “See Wakanda And Die” and not think of Adowa.

    Wakanda and the Black Imagination

    https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2015/12/visions-of-a-wakandan-future/420768/

    The comic that he references basically gives us Europeans as alien space lizards:


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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    No, this is what happens when you take a wrong turn in Detroit.
    , @Tiny Duck
    every white "race realist" needs to see this

    this is why you pathetic "men" will not win
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  64. Abe says: • Website
    @nebulafox
    >None of this made much sense, but the admirableness of Mao’s China was conventional wisdom among American intellectuals from New York Times columnist James Reston’s 1971 trip with Henry Kissinger, during which Reston had his appendix removed using only acupuncture as anesthesia, until art historian Simon Leys’ debunking book Chinese Shadows in 1977.

    The Chinese informed Reston upon his arrival that his trip to Beijing was "postponed"... and ended up putting him on a slow train to travel all the way from Guangzhou. This was deliberate so that by the time he arrived, Kissinger had already left, meaning that Reston threw a hissy fit and burst his appendix. One wonders if the motive was general Chinese contempt for of intellectual "useful idiots" abroad, as was characteristic of many dictatorial regimes in the 20th Century all over the political spectrum, or a deliberate attempt to butter up Richard Nixon, who hated (and was hated by-he couldn't go a page in his book about the Frost interviews without launching a diatribe about Nixon and labeled him as "Proteus") Reston with the passion of a thousand suns and took a bemused attitude of gratitude to Zhou Enlai for the whole incident. Zhou was a extremely subtle yet skillful operator who knew exactly which buttons to push to produce favorable reactions from individual foreign leaders when he wanted to-and when he was allowed to by Mao, so my guess is a bit of both.

    Anyway, still can't get over how downright stupid leftist worship for Maoist China really was. If you substitute in an internationalist focused, revolution sponsoring foreign policy in exchange for the racial hyper-nationalism that animates North Korea, China in the 1960s basically *was* North Korea. You know, with the mass hunger, the labor camps, the Orwellian cult of personality, getting family members to inform on each other, that kind of thing. But on another level, it does make sense. The Soviet Union by the 1960s was rather unsuitable as a model for proto-SJWs in particular: way too white, socially conservative, and disturbingly not interested in blowing the world up anymore in the name of revolution.

    China on the other hand... well, there was a reason that the real North Korea had border conflicts with it and the USSR was so frightened of it that it seriously considered launching a preemptive nuclear attack. Cultural Revolution-era China scared the crap out of everybody in the region.

    If you substitute in an internationalist focused, revolution sponsoring foreign policy in exchange for the racial hyper-nationalism that animates North Korea, China in the 1960s basically *was* North Korea.

    Ingmar Bergman made a film called WINTER LIGHT where Max von Sydow’s character is thrown into a full-blown existential crisis after hearing Mao’s China is developing the atom bomb.

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  65. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Whitekanda

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  66. Jack D says:
    @AnotherDad
    Jack, what's even the argumentative point of your comment?

    Logically, it's
    -- once upon a time someone said something disparaging about some (vaguely defined) group of people, which turned out to be incorrect (or at least incomplete)
    -- ergo calling another group of people 'history's losers" is fraught (or something?)

    Hey, someone once called Janey "ugly" and she turned out to be reasonably cute girl, so watch it calling that Oklahoma two-sacker "ugly". Ok.

    If we're on a blog about noticing human differences, one of the *most* noticeable--both observationally and statistically (academic tests, crime and income statistics)--is that blacks just don't perform very well in modern white civilized societies. And not just relative to whites, but to pretty much all other groups trying their hands at it.

    We can all be "polite" and good non-"racist!" liberals and bury our heads in the sand about it. Or we can actually use our brains and say "yes there is a very clear long historical pattern here--worldwide--of black underperformance". And then draw whatever from that whatever we can in terms of intellectual understanding (sociological and historical interpretation), policy recommendations, etc.

    I mostly agree with you – read the last line of my comments. Although just like there are 7 foot tall Chinese basketball players, in a continent of over 1 billion people there are some pretty smart Africans (every year there is a news story about some Nigerian Igbo immigrant who has been accepted by every last Ivy League college – maybe he/she is no great genius but compared to the bunch that we have they stand out).

    But on the whole I think that the odds that American blacks (blacks anywhere) are on the verge of their big breakthrough if only whitey would loosen the screws of racism a little bit more are pretty low at this point. Likewise, I don’t have a lot of hope that Mexicans are going to be the new Jews or even the new Southern Italians (although the latter is a little closer) – again Mexicans (meaning Mestizos) have been around for a long time and if they were going to shine they would have already. But, OTOH, I think a lot of the commentariat here misunderestimate the capabilities of the various flavors of Asian and they will be as wrong about them as Walker was about the Ellis Island immigrants. (That being said, capabilities are not the beginning and end of the discussion.)

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    • Replies: @peterike

    I think a lot of the commentariat here misunderestimate the capabilities of the various flavors of Asian and they will be as wrong about them as Walker was about the Ellis Island immigrants
     
    Hmmm. Walker said: They have none of the ideas and aptitudes which fit men to take up readily and easily the problem of self-care and self-government.

    That sounds pretty spot on to me. What he failed to notice was how actively and effectively they would undermine self-care and self-government.
    , @Jefferson
    "I don’t have a lot of hope that Mexicans are going to be the new Jews or even the new Southern Italians (although the latter is a little closer)"

    Mexicans and Italians are not comparible at all. Average per capita household income Italians earn significantly more than Mexicans and Italians are less likely to be on welfare than Mexicans.
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  67. @syonredux

    In 1896, Emperor Menelik II defeated the invading Italians, the only long-term defeat Africans imposed on Europeans in a test of arms in the 19th century.
     
    TN Coates also seems rather struck by the Wakanda-as-Ethiopia idea, even referencing the Italian defeat at Adwa:

    Wakanda’s status as ever-independent seems to eerily parallel Ethiopia’s history as well as its place in the broader black imagination. Maybe it’s only me, but I can’t read Jason Aaron’s superb “See Wakanda And Die” and not think of Adowa.
     
    Wakanda and the Black Imagination

    https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2015/12/visions-of-a-wakandan-future/420768/


    The comic that he references basically gives us Europeans as alien space lizards:

    http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/32897/1210334-for_wakanda.2.jpg


    https://i.imgur.com/swjQ1vq.jpg

    No, this is what happens when you take a wrong turn in Detroit.

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  68. syonredux says:
    @Corvinus
    "There are four and a half distinct races in sub-Saharan Africa: Negroes, Nilotics, Pygmies, Hottentots, and that Cushitic race salad in the Horn."

    No, these groups are NOT "distinct races", but are particular tribal ethnic groups. The "Hottentots" are actually the Khoikhoi, or Khoi, peoples, who practiced pastoral agriculture. It was the Dutch who labeled them in this fashion. In essence, they created a concept based on their particular worldview at the time.

    Sub-Saharan Africans are Negroid/Black.

    Regardless, "Black Panther" is a film, The Coalition of the Right and the Coalition of the Left are having a field day crafting their narrative--"race realism" vs. "race power". In the end, those who see the movie are desiring to be entertained, and generally not thinking about the movie from a Sailerian or SJW lens.

    No, these groups are NOT “distinct races”, but are particular tribal ethnic groups. The “Hottentots” are actually the Khoikhoi, or Khoi, peoples, who practiced pastoral agriculture. It was the Dutch who labeled them in this fashion. In essence, they created a concept based on their particular worldview at the time.

    Need to do a bit more research, dear fellow. The Khoisan are quite racially distinct….

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  69. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Sheeeeeiiiithole

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  70. how did you fail to mention the most famous Ethiopian of our time?

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  71. Jack D says:
    @AnotherDad

    The mania for Wakanka sort of reminds me of a statement TNC made some years ago…the gist of which is that he needs to believe in certain ideas about American blacks (like their condition is entirely the fault of white racism) because the alternative is that they are just basically history’s losers, which is too painful to contemplate.
     
    Arclight illuminates the issue!

    One could trot out examples, evidence, go book length, heck fill volumes. The bottom line here is that essentially since 1960--basically over the arc of my life--the US has effectively conducted a natural experiment into where exactly the fault for "the Negro problem" lies. And the answer has come back--really has been back even charitably for twenty years or more--"with the Negros themselves".

    This failure has been made even more glaring by our "elites" insistence on "invite the world". The relative success of every other ethnic group in the world showing up in America has highlighted that blacks really are "just basically history's losers". Not demographically certainly, but in terms of being about to function in--much less run--a modern civilization. (I guess we could import some Australian aboriginies, or better yet Adaman Islanders to debunk this.)

    This is just generally ... depressing. It's pretty depressing to white Americans like me. The Obamania was 95% idealistic--and usually well isolated from blacks--whites clinging on to some desire for it not to be true, for there still to be some hope, if blacks could just see themselves ... if ... if ... if.

    And it's got to be even more depressing to the middle class blacks who aren't screwups, but are racially tethered to a lot of screwups, outright criminals and general dysfunction and mediocrity, and think "i know we can and should be doing better than this!" It's so much more pleasant to think "whitey messed us up!", "we wuz kangz!" than admit that your tribe is full of a bunch of boneheads. Denial ... it ain't just a river in Abyssinia.

    If you think about it, this kind of lack of acceptance was more or less inevitable. Who is going to accept that they are from a “broken race” and that you are always going to be at the bottom of the heap and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it because it’s genetic and was predetermined from the moment of your conception? Maybe certain Asian religions allow you to have that kind of acceptance of your fate, but this goes against the grain of everything that Americans (including American blacks) are taught. And not just in the modern era where their heads are filled with we wuz kangs nonsense, but as a basic tenet of Western thinking. And yet on some other level, blacks can see that the deterministic view really does have some truth in it, so this creates cognitive dissonance which leads to denial – NO, there is no problem at all, it’s all great or it would have been if it wasn’t for whitey. It’s really hard to envision some alternate reality where American blacks were willing to realistically confront their own issues. Everyone’s a critic except when they look in the mirror. Jesus said not to speak about the mote in your neighbor’s eye but the beam in your own precisely because it is human nature to do the opposite.

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  72. Ed says:
    @John Derbyshire
    See here.

    There are four and a half distinct races in sub-Saharan Africa: Negroes, Nilotics, Pygmies, Hottentots, and that Cushitic race salad in the Horn. Practically all the black slaves imported into the New World were Negroes. That's given us an unbalanced view of the African peoples.

    There is no African group called “Negroes” scientifically, anthropologically or even historically.”

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    I think he means Bantus. Most black slaves were Bantus and they are more or less the same thing as American Negroes. The Bantus were originally a small group (as were the Romans) but they expanded greatly over time and pushed out , assimilated (or killed) many Cushitic, Nilotic, Khoisan and pygmy peoples from their former territories until they occupied most of sub-Saharan Africa.
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  73. Fascinating article. Thanks. I’ve learned more memory-holed history here (and at Razib’s) than I ever did in five years of humanities graduate education.

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  74. anon • Disclaimer says:

    “Addis Ababa” What is it that makes African place names instantly recognizable? The similarity to Babies’ babble?

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  75. peterike says:
    @Jack D
    I mostly agree with you - read the last line of my comments. Although just like there are 7 foot tall Chinese basketball players, in a continent of over 1 billion people there are some pretty smart Africans (every year there is a news story about some Nigerian Igbo immigrant who has been accepted by every last Ivy League college - maybe he/she is no great genius but compared to the bunch that we have they stand out).

    But on the whole I think that the odds that American blacks (blacks anywhere) are on the verge of their big breakthrough if only whitey would loosen the screws of racism a little bit more are pretty low at this point. Likewise, I don't have a lot of hope that Mexicans are going to be the new Jews or even the new Southern Italians (although the latter is a little closer) - again Mexicans (meaning Mestizos) have been around for a long time and if they were going to shine they would have already. But, OTOH, I think a lot of the commentariat here misunderestimate the capabilities of the various flavors of Asian and they will be as wrong about them as Walker was about the Ellis Island immigrants. (That being said, capabilities are not the beginning and end of the discussion.)

    I think a lot of the commentariat here misunderestimate the capabilities of the various flavors of Asian and they will be as wrong about them as Walker was about the Ellis Island immigrants

    Hmmm. Walker said: They have none of the ideas and aptitudes which fit men to take up readily and easily the problem of self-care and self-government.

    That sounds pretty spot on to me. What he failed to notice was how actively and effectively they would undermine self-care and self-government.

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  76. Abe says: • Website

    Think of the original “Star Trek”, with its peaceful, international crew, still under the charge of a white man from Iowa… It isn’t just the idea that black people will exist in the future, will use technology and science, will travel deep into space. It is the idea that we will have won the future.

    I know different cultures have varied in terms of how inclusive they’ve been towards outsiders in their futuristic imaginations, not all necessarily defaulting toward a vision of anodyne, harmonious, one world government, but I have never seen anyone watch STAR TREK, see Klingons, and immediately holler: “YEAH, THAT SH!T’s FOR US!”

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  77. Jack D says:
    @Ed
    There is no African group called “Negroes” scientifically, anthropologically or even historically.”

    I think he means Bantus. Most black slaves were Bantus and they are more or less the same thing as American Negroes. The Bantus were originally a small group (as were the Romans) but they expanded greatly over time and pushed out , assimilated (or killed) many Cushitic, Nilotic, Khoisan and pygmy peoples from their former territories until they occupied most of sub-Saharan Africa.

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    • Replies: @Ed
    Probably right that was what he’s referrung to but Bantus generally refer to the dominant black African group’s from about the Congo south to South Africa. West Africans come from several groups and the bulk of slaves brought to the US and the British New World hail from here.
    , @syonredux

    But something happened: Living Malawians have no genetic connection to those who lived there before. These ancient people must have disappeared virtually without descendants in Malawi.

    It’s possible, Dr. Thompson said, that Bantu farmers drove hunter-gatherers out of places like Malawi. The surviving hunter-gatherers ended up in deserts and other places that weren’t good for crops and livestock.
     

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/new-dna-evidence-from-africa-reinforces-bad-old-stereotypes/

    Sounds quite like genocide/ethnic cleansing to me...

    Something rather similar seems to have happened in ancient Britain:


    It looks as if people in western Germany picked up these ideas – of course we have a radically imperfect idea of what those ideas were – and then settled Britain. Before all this Britain was populated by a kindof-Sardinian population (with some hunter-gatherer mixed in) that had probably came from Spain. Afterwards they were almost indistinguishable from people of that era living in the Netherlands, who had a lot of steppe ancestry. 93% replacement, minimum. Some Anglo-Saxon ancestry was added about 1400 years ago but A. they’re not very different from the Brits B. most British ancestry today still goes back to the Bell Beaker conquest.

    This probably happened through war and massacre. If you think otherwise, you reject the historical record – have a fundamentally false notion of human nature.
     

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2017/05/17/bell-beakers-or-the-birth-of-britain/
    , @Corvinus
    "I think he means Bantus. Most black slaves were Bantus and they are more or less the same thing as American Negroes."

    Some black slaves were Bantus from what I gather. It is challenging for African American genealogists to trace their ancestors further than a few generations. Even when they trace their ancestry to the 1600's or 1700's, finding exactly where their ancestors originated is difficult because slave ships did not keep passenger lists of the people they captured from Africa.
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  78. Excellent article, more of these please.

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  79. Jack D says:
    @Corvinus
    "There are four and a half distinct races in sub-Saharan Africa: Negroes, Nilotics, Pygmies, Hottentots, and that Cushitic race salad in the Horn."

    No, these groups are NOT "distinct races", but are particular tribal ethnic groups. The "Hottentots" are actually the Khoikhoi, or Khoi, peoples, who practiced pastoral agriculture. It was the Dutch who labeled them in this fashion. In essence, they created a concept based on their particular worldview at the time.

    Sub-Saharan Africans are Negroid/Black.

    Regardless, "Black Panther" is a film, The Coalition of the Right and the Coalition of the Left are having a field day crafting their narrative--"race realism" vs. "race power". In the end, those who see the movie are desiring to be entertained, and generally not thinking about the movie from a Sailerian or SJW lens.

    In the end, those who see the movie are desiring to be entertained, and generally not thinking about the movie from a Sailerian or SJW lens.

    That’s the thing about brainwashing – it works best when you think you are just being entertained and not propagandized.

    Also, if white people were only there to be “entertained” by a movie positively depicting whites as a master race having a super-secret all white homeland closed to people of other colors, I don’t think that would be accepted by the critics as “mere entertainment”. Now part of this is just “man bites dog” is more interesting than vice versa but I’ve seen a few too many commercials with black doctors, lawyers, executives, etc. (but all the burglars in burglar alarm commercials are white) not to be suspicious:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=american+inventors

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "That’s the thing about brainwashing – it works best when you think you are just being entertained and not propagandized."

    Except the audience is not being brainwashed. They are watching something they want to watch. Perhaps you are the one who is being intellectually bamboozled here. Black Panther is entertainment, period. It's the Coalition of the Fringes who want to politicize it.

    "Also, if white people were only there to be “entertained” by a movie positively depicting whites as a master race having a super-secret all white homeland closed to people of other colors, I don’t think that would be accepted by the critics as “mere entertainment”.

    Watch "The Avengers" films and get back to us.

    "Now part of this is just “man bites dog” is more interesting than vice versa but I’ve seen a few too many commercials with black doctors, lawyers, executives, etc. (but all the burglars in burglar alarm commercials are white) not to be suspicious".

    The reality is that our society, in particular Generation Z, is on board with showing people from different walks of life in commercials. It is reflective of America in the present time. Besides, how do these depictions impact you personally?
    , @Jefferson
    " (but all the burglars in burglar alarm commercials are white) not to be suspicious:"

    Even Home Alone a film about Chicago burglars they are still White. What percentage of Chicago home burglars racially look like Marv and Harry?
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  80. Tiny Duck says:
    @syonredux

    In 1896, Emperor Menelik II defeated the invading Italians, the only long-term defeat Africans imposed on Europeans in a test of arms in the 19th century.
     
    TN Coates also seems rather struck by the Wakanda-as-Ethiopia idea, even referencing the Italian defeat at Adwa:

    Wakanda’s status as ever-independent seems to eerily parallel Ethiopia’s history as well as its place in the broader black imagination. Maybe it’s only me, but I can’t read Jason Aaron’s superb “See Wakanda And Die” and not think of Adowa.
     
    Wakanda and the Black Imagination

    https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2015/12/visions-of-a-wakandan-future/420768/


    The comic that he references basically gives us Europeans as alien space lizards:

    http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/32897/1210334-for_wakanda.2.jpg


    https://i.imgur.com/swjQ1vq.jpg

    every white “race realist” needs to see this

    this is why you pathetic “men” will not win

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  81. Stop putting articles in Taki’s.

    It’s annoying to navigate to an external site.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    He will if you pay him as Taki does (and Unz doesn't).
    , @Barnard
    Did it occur to you that he is being compensated for writing for Taki's? That might be a stronger consideration than your annoyance at having to click on a link to another website.
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  82. @King Baeksu
    I spent six weeks in Ethiopia in 2015 after meeting a pair of Ethiopian waitresses in Bahrain who had the endearing custom of feeding me tibs by hand.

    They say that Ethiopian women are the most attractive in Africa, and that must certainly figure in the current population boom there. I myself was not disappointed.

    Addis Ababa was quite cool in July, if often rainy, and air conditioners were unnecessary. It was also blessedly free of mosquitos, and hence any worry of contracting malaria.

    A popular pastime was chewing on speedy chat leaves for hours on end in a neighborhood shisha bar. The one near my hotel had a nice young Muslim waiter to keep the pipes going, and there were recycled US AID sacks in the courtyard filled with coal for the burning.

    Freshly roasted Ethiopian coffee is the best, and is usually enjoyed several times a day in a ceremonial style, with grass strewn about the floor, frankincense filling the air and popcorn served as an accompanying snack.

    I found Addis Ababa to be very safe, even at night, and the locals were generally relaxed and friendly. However, a visit to Shashamane, the Rastafari settlement down in the lowlands, was less pleasant, and at one point I had to escape an especially aggressive Rasta by hopping into a passing motorcycle taxi helmed by helpful grandfather.

    Few recall today that Rimbaud spent a number of years in his later life in Ethiopia, based mainly in the eastern walled town of Harar, filled with hundreds of colorful mosques. He seems to have had a rough time of it surviving as a trader, and even attempted to run guns for Emperor Menelik II without much financial success – although some scholars reckon the antique rifles he had procured helped drive out the Italians in 1896.

    Some time after my visit, I caught a cab in Washington, DC. The driver was a young black man who spoke softly accented English, and so I asked, "Where are you from?" "I'm from the greatest country in the world!" he replied cheerfully. "Ethiopia?" I surmised. "That's right, man!"

    “They say that Ethiopian women are the most attractive in Africa,”

    I was going to say that the most memorably beautiful coed I met at UCLA in the early 1980s was Ethiopian. She was the daughter of the former Ethiopian Ambassador to the US under the late emperor, so her family tree must have been aristocratic.

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    There was an Ethiopian girl in my High School; she was markedly more attractive than all but the most European-admixed of the native Blacks.

    She also didn't hang out with the Blacks; her friends were all White, and she spoke with a General American accent (i.e., there was no trace of African American Vernacular in her voice).

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  83. Ed says:
    @Jack D
    I think he means Bantus. Most black slaves were Bantus and they are more or less the same thing as American Negroes. The Bantus were originally a small group (as were the Romans) but they expanded greatly over time and pushed out , assimilated (or killed) many Cushitic, Nilotic, Khoisan and pygmy peoples from their former territories until they occupied most of sub-Saharan Africa.

    Probably right that was what he’s referrung to but Bantus generally refer to the dominant black African group’s from about the Congo south to South Africa. West Africans come from several groups and the bulk of slaves brought to the US and the British New World hail from here.

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  84. syonredux says:
    @Samuel Skinner
    Both the Amish and Ultra-Orthodox Jews have higher birth rates and higher levels of intelligence. Don't count out the white race; the American Empire may commit suicide by leftism, but its collapse will bring about organized violence which whites excel at.

    Both the Amish and Ultra-Orthodox Jews have higher birth rates and higher levels of intelligence.

    The Amish have IQs that are over the White American mean (100)?

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    I don’t think there is a lot of good data (the Amish don’t really like having the “English” poking them too much as if they were zoo animals) but what there is seems to indicate that they are about average.

    http://www.gnxp.com/new/2007/12/05/10-questions-for-james-flynn/

    I think that there must be a certain amount of bleeding off – super inquisitive Amish kids are not going to stick with the religion, like this guy:

    https://xamishatheist.com/2012/09/02/the-genius-kid-in-amish-school/

    OTOH, the Amish are good farmers, woodworkers, etc. and do well economically within the confines of what you could be expected to achieve if you only had an 8th grade education and couldn’t use electricity.
    , @Samuel Skinner
    The Amish were originally from Germany. Germany has a higher IQ then Italy, Poland, Greece, France- pretty much everywhere but England and Scandinavia. While leaving might select for IQ now, that would be recent- for most of their history the Amish weren't very different from the rest of society.
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  85. syonredux says:
    @Jack D
    I think he means Bantus. Most black slaves were Bantus and they are more or less the same thing as American Negroes. The Bantus were originally a small group (as were the Romans) but they expanded greatly over time and pushed out , assimilated (or killed) many Cushitic, Nilotic, Khoisan and pygmy peoples from their former territories until they occupied most of sub-Saharan Africa.

    But something happened: Living Malawians have no genetic connection to those who lived there before. These ancient people must have disappeared virtually without descendants in Malawi.

    It’s possible, Dr. Thompson said, that Bantu farmers drove hunter-gatherers out of places like Malawi. The surviving hunter-gatherers ended up in deserts and other places that weren’t good for crops and livestock.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/new-dna-evidence-from-africa-reinforces-bad-old-stereotypes/

    Sounds quite like genocide/ethnic cleansing to me…

    Something rather similar seems to have happened in ancient Britain:

    It looks as if people in western Germany picked up these ideas – of course we have a radically imperfect idea of what those ideas were – and then settled Britain. Before all this Britain was populated by a kindof-Sardinian population (with some hunter-gatherer mixed in) that had probably came from Spain. Afterwards they were almost indistinguishable from people of that era living in the Netherlands, who had a lot of steppe ancestry. 93% replacement, minimum. Some Anglo-Saxon ancestry was added about 1400 years ago but A. they’re not very different from the Brits B. most British ancestry today still goes back to the Bell Beaker conquest.

    This probably happened through war and massacre. If you think otherwise, you reject the historical record – have a fundamentally false notion of human nature.

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2017/05/17/bell-beakers-or-the-birth-of-britain/

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  86. Sean says:
    @nebulafox
    >None of this made much sense, but the admirableness of Mao’s China was conventional wisdom among American intellectuals from New York Times columnist James Reston’s 1971 trip with Henry Kissinger, during which Reston had his appendix removed using only acupuncture as anesthesia, until art historian Simon Leys’ debunking book Chinese Shadows in 1977.

    The Chinese informed Reston upon his arrival that his trip to Beijing was "postponed"... and ended up putting him on a slow train to travel all the way from Guangzhou. This was deliberate so that by the time he arrived, Kissinger had already left, meaning that Reston threw a hissy fit and burst his appendix. One wonders if the motive was general Chinese contempt for of intellectual "useful idiots" abroad, as was characteristic of many dictatorial regimes in the 20th Century all over the political spectrum, or a deliberate attempt to butter up Richard Nixon, who hated (and was hated by-he couldn't go a page in his book about the Frost interviews without launching a diatribe about Nixon and labeled him as "Proteus") Reston with the passion of a thousand suns and took a bemused attitude of gratitude to Zhou Enlai for the whole incident. Zhou was a extremely subtle yet skillful operator who knew exactly which buttons to push to produce favorable reactions from individual foreign leaders when he wanted to-and when he was allowed to by Mao, so my guess is a bit of both.

    Anyway, still can't get over how downright stupid leftist worship for Maoist China really was. If you substitute in an internationalist focused, revolution sponsoring foreign policy in exchange for the racial hyper-nationalism that animates North Korea, China in the 1960s basically *was* North Korea. You know, with the mass hunger, the labor camps, the Orwellian cult of personality, getting family members to inform on each other, that kind of thing. But on another level, it does make sense. The Soviet Union by the 1960s was rather unsuitable as a model for proto-SJWs in particular: way too white, socially conservative, and disturbingly not interested in blowing the world up anymore in the name of revolution.

    China on the other hand... well, there was a reason that the real North Korea had border conflicts with it and the USSR was so frightened of it that it seriously considered launching a preemptive nuclear attack. Cultural Revolution-era China scared the crap out of everybody in the region.

    Fear of China staging a Korean war style intervention was a major restraint on America in taking the war to North Vietnam. The Vietnamese were lauded in the 60s
    “Ho Ho Chi Minh, the NLF is gonna win!”

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    • Replies: @nebulafox
    The irony of that one is that although North Vietnam by the most part did their best to keep independent of both major Communist powers and play them off against each other, by the early 1970s, they'd decisively lean toward Moscow over Beijing. The Tet Offensive-specifically the hope that they could spark mass uprisings in the South-was by and large the pro-Chinese faction's idea, taking from the Maoist theory of war. As the war got more conventional during the Nixon years, Soviet military tactics became far more germane.

    As Linh Dinh alluded to, you talk to two Vietnamese, you'll get three opinions on just about everything... unless you are talking about national heroes who died fighting the Chinese many centuries ago.

    , @Sean
    As with the communist insurrection in Malaysia, the Viet Cong were ethnically Chinese to a great extent. In Malaysia the British simply expelled the ethnic Chinese population, much to the delight of the Malays. The Phoenix program might have been war-winning effective if it had went after anyone of Chinese ancestry irrespective of political views.
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  87. syonredux says:
    @Steve Sailer
    "They say that Ethiopian women are the most attractive in Africa,"

    I was going to say that the most memorably beautiful coed I met at UCLA in the early 1980s was Ethiopian. She was the daughter of the former Ethiopian Ambassador to the US under the late emperor, so her family tree must have been aristocratic.

    There was an Ethiopian girl in my High School; she was markedly more attractive than all but the most European-admixed of the native Blacks.

    She also didn’t hang out with the Blacks; her friends were all White, and she spoke with a General American accent (i.e., there was no trace of African American Vernacular in her voice).

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    • Replies: @Arclight
    DC has a decent-sized Ethiopian immigrant population - for the most part, they don't want anything to do with American blacks and look down on them.
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  88. Corvinus says:
    @Jack D

    In the end, those who see the movie are desiring to be entertained, and generally not thinking about the movie from a Sailerian or SJW lens.
     
    That's the thing about brainwashing - it works best when you think you are just being entertained and not propagandized.

    Also, if white people were only there to be "entertained" by a movie positively depicting whites as a master race having a super-secret all white homeland closed to people of other colors, I don't think that would be accepted by the critics as "mere entertainment". Now part of this is just "man bites dog" is more interesting than vice versa but I've seen a few too many commercials with black doctors, lawyers, executives, etc. (but all the burglars in burglar alarm commercials are white) not to be suspicious:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=american+inventors

    “That’s the thing about brainwashing – it works best when you think you are just being entertained and not propagandized.”

    Except the audience is not being brainwashed. They are watching something they want to watch. Perhaps you are the one who is being intellectually bamboozled here. Black Panther is entertainment, period. It’s the Coalition of the Fringes who want to politicize it.

    “Also, if white people were only there to be “entertained” by a movie positively depicting whites as a master race having a super-secret all white homeland closed to people of other colors, I don’t think that would be accepted by the critics as “mere entertainment”.

    Watch “The Avengers” films and get back to us.

    “Now part of this is just “man bites dog” is more interesting than vice versa but I’ve seen a few too many commercials with black doctors, lawyers, executives, etc. (but all the burglars in burglar alarm commercials are white) not to be suspicious”.

    The reality is that our society, in particular Generation Z, is on board with showing people from different walks of life in commercials. It is reflective of America in the present time. Besides, how do these depictions impact you personally?

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    “Also, if white people were only there to be “entertained” by a movie positively depicting whites as a master race having a super-secret all white homeland closed to people of other colors, I don’t think that would be accepted by the critics as “mere entertainment”.

    Watch “The Avengers” films and get back to us.
     
    The Avengers was set in "a super-secret all white homeland closed to people of other colors?" For that matter, does this mean that a White "master race" takes orders from Samuel L Jackson?
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  89. Jack D says:
    @Thorfinnsson
    Stop putting articles in Taki's.

    It's annoying to navigate to an external site.

    He will if you pay him as Taki does (and Unz doesn’t).

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  90. Barnard says:
    @Thorfinnsson
    Stop putting articles in Taki's.

    It's annoying to navigate to an external site.

    Did it occur to you that he is being compensated for writing for Taki’s? That might be a stronger consideration than your annoyance at having to click on a link to another website.

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  91. Corvinus says:
    @Jack D
    I think he means Bantus. Most black slaves were Bantus and they are more or less the same thing as American Negroes. The Bantus were originally a small group (as were the Romans) but they expanded greatly over time and pushed out , assimilated (or killed) many Cushitic, Nilotic, Khoisan and pygmy peoples from their former territories until they occupied most of sub-Saharan Africa.

    “I think he means Bantus. Most black slaves were Bantus and they are more or less the same thing as American Negroes.”

    Some black slaves were Bantus from what I gather. It is challenging for African American genealogists to trace their ancestors further than a few generations. Even when they trace their ancestry to the 1600′s or 1700′s, finding exactly where their ancestors originated is difficult because slave ships did not keep passenger lists of the people they captured from Africa.

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  92. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Funny, y’all allowing Black Panther to soak up so much of y’all’s brainwidth. I prefer to focus on the implications of the “Death Wish” remake – last time didn’t it herald a turning of things? Or was it more a marker for the bottoming of things? What will it be this time?

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  93. Jack D says:
    @syonredux

    Both the Amish and Ultra-Orthodox Jews have higher birth rates and higher levels of intelligence.
     
    The Amish have IQs that are over the White American mean (100)?

    I don’t think there is a lot of good data (the Amish don’t really like having the “English” poking them too much as if they were zoo animals) but what there is seems to indicate that they are about average.

    http://www.gnxp.com/new/2007/12/05/10-questions-for-james-flynn/

    I think that there must be a certain amount of bleeding off – super inquisitive Amish kids are not going to stick with the religion, like this guy:

    https://xamishatheist.com/2012/09/02/the-genius-kid-in-amish-school/

    OTOH, the Amish are good farmers, woodworkers, etc. and do well economically within the confines of what you could be expected to achieve if you only had an 8th grade education and couldn’t use electricity.

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  94. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox
    >None of this made much sense, but the admirableness of Mao’s China was conventional wisdom among American intellectuals from New York Times columnist James Reston’s 1971 trip with Henry Kissinger, during which Reston had his appendix removed using only acupuncture as anesthesia, until art historian Simon Leys’ debunking book Chinese Shadows in 1977.

    The Chinese informed Reston upon his arrival that his trip to Beijing was "postponed"... and ended up putting him on a slow train to travel all the way from Guangzhou. This was deliberate so that by the time he arrived, Kissinger had already left, meaning that Reston threw a hissy fit and burst his appendix. One wonders if the motive was general Chinese contempt for of intellectual "useful idiots" abroad, as was characteristic of many dictatorial regimes in the 20th Century all over the political spectrum, or a deliberate attempt to butter up Richard Nixon, who hated (and was hated by-he couldn't go a page in his book about the Frost interviews without launching a diatribe about Nixon and labeled him as "Proteus") Reston with the passion of a thousand suns and took a bemused attitude of gratitude to Zhou Enlai for the whole incident. Zhou was a extremely subtle yet skillful operator who knew exactly which buttons to push to produce favorable reactions from individual foreign leaders when he wanted to-and when he was allowed to by Mao, so my guess is a bit of both.

    Anyway, still can't get over how downright stupid leftist worship for Maoist China really was. If you substitute in an internationalist focused, revolution sponsoring foreign policy in exchange for the racial hyper-nationalism that animates North Korea, China in the 1960s basically *was* North Korea. You know, with the mass hunger, the labor camps, the Orwellian cult of personality, getting family members to inform on each other, that kind of thing. But on another level, it does make sense. The Soviet Union by the 1960s was rather unsuitable as a model for proto-SJWs in particular: way too white, socially conservative, and disturbingly not interested in blowing the world up anymore in the name of revolution.

    China on the other hand... well, there was a reason that the real North Korea had border conflicts with it and the USSR was so frightened of it that it seriously considered launching a preemptive nuclear attack. Cultural Revolution-era China scared the crap out of everybody in the region.

    Sounds like Reston developed a case of Duranty Syndrome.

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  95. @Nigerian Nationalist
    *Sigh*

    Did you skip demand and supply class or were you never thought?

    Further, the idea of "White man" belongs is simply absurd, think it through reductio ad absurdum. You're writing in Greek letters, communicating with bits of codes made up of Arabic numerals e.t.c.

    The Greeks were white. Arabic numerals are from India, presumably invented by the upper castes which have high levels of white admixture. Everything in Western Civilization comes from white people or the Chinese.

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    Not the fire. The fire comes from Africa.
    , @Nigerian Nationalist
    The Greeks were not White--they are Indo-European, but that'd create the problem, for you, of including people you don't consider white.

    Presumably is as stupid as the presumably real nation of Wakanda.
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  96. @syonredux

    Both the Amish and Ultra-Orthodox Jews have higher birth rates and higher levels of intelligence.
     
    The Amish have IQs that are over the White American mean (100)?

    The Amish were originally from Germany. Germany has a higher IQ then Italy, Poland, Greece, France- pretty much everywhere but England and Scandinavia. While leaving might select for IQ now, that would be recent- for most of their history the Amish weren’t very different from the rest of society.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    The Amish were originally from Germany. Germany has a higher IQ then Italy, Poland, Greece, France- pretty much everywhere but England and Scandinavia. While leaving might select for IQ now, that would be recent- for most of their history the Amish weren’t very different from the rest of society.
     
    Yeah, but my question was: Is the average Amish IQ higher than the White American average? In other words, is it over 100?
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  97. utu says:
    @Corvinus
    "There are four and a half distinct races in sub-Saharan Africa: Negroes, Nilotics, Pygmies, Hottentots, and that Cushitic race salad in the Horn."

    No, these groups are NOT "distinct races", but are particular tribal ethnic groups. The "Hottentots" are actually the Khoikhoi, or Khoi, peoples, who practiced pastoral agriculture. It was the Dutch who labeled them in this fashion. In essence, they created a concept based on their particular worldview at the time.

    Sub-Saharan Africans are Negroid/Black.

    Regardless, "Black Panther" is a film, The Coalition of the Right and the Coalition of the Left are having a field day crafting their narrative--"race realism" vs. "race power". In the end, those who see the movie are desiring to be entertained, and generally not thinking about the movie from a Sailerian or SJW lens.

    In the end, those who see the movie are desiring to be entertained, and generally not thinking about the movie from a Sailerian or SJW lens.

    When you are being entertained you rational critical judgment guards are down then is the greatest opening to your mind to plant memes and ideas. The values and ideas do not come from intentional commercials, propaganda lies by news outlets and pedagogic lectures but from the pop culture. The pop culture rules. Most of your tastes, and distastes, likes and dislikes, inclinations and prejudices come from watching soaps and movies. Thus the Sailerian or SJW lens is appropriate here.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "When you are being entertained you rational critical judgment guards are down then is the greatest opening to your mind to plant memes and ideas. The values and ideas do not come from intentional commercials, propaganda lies by news outlets and pedagogic lectures but from the pop culture."

    Except people generally employ the use of reason to discern fantasy from reality. So even though they may get caught up in the moment when watching something, viewers for the most part process what they see. Furthermore, this "planting of memes and ideas" perhaps is not nefarious in nature, but it simply represents what is deemed normal or acceptable in a society.

    "Most of your tastes, and distastes, likes and dislikes, inclinations and prejudices come from watching soaps and movies. Thus the Sailerian or SJW lens is appropriate here."

    You are giving too little credit to people. They have preferences. Those things come from a number of different avenues--from home to school to popular culture. Whether one factor is more important than another factor is up for fierce debate.
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  98. Jack D says:
    @King Baeksu
    I spent six weeks in Ethiopia in 2015 after meeting a pair of Ethiopian waitresses in Bahrain who had the endearing custom of feeding me tibs by hand.

    They say that Ethiopian women are the most attractive in Africa, and that must certainly figure in the current population boom there. I myself was not disappointed.

    Addis Ababa was quite cool in July, if often rainy, and air conditioners were unnecessary. It was also blessedly free of mosquitos, and hence any worry of contracting malaria.

    A popular pastime was chewing on speedy chat leaves for hours on end in a neighborhood shisha bar. The one near my hotel had a nice young Muslim waiter to keep the pipes going, and there were recycled US AID sacks in the courtyard filled with coal for the burning.

    Freshly roasted Ethiopian coffee is the best, and is usually enjoyed several times a day in a ceremonial style, with grass strewn about the floor, frankincense filling the air and popcorn served as an accompanying snack.

    I found Addis Ababa to be very safe, even at night, and the locals were generally relaxed and friendly. However, a visit to Shashamane, the Rastafari settlement down in the lowlands, was less pleasant, and at one point I had to escape an especially aggressive Rasta by hopping into a passing motorcycle taxi helmed by helpful grandfather.

    Few recall today that Rimbaud spent a number of years in his later life in Ethiopia, based mainly in the eastern walled town of Harar, filled with hundreds of colorful mosques. He seems to have had a rough time of it surviving as a trader, and even attempted to run guns for Emperor Menelik II without much financial success – although some scholars reckon the antique rifles he had procured helped drive out the Italians in 1896.

    Some time after my visit, I caught a cab in Washington, DC. The driver was a young black man who spoke softly accented English, and so I asked, "Where are you from?" "I'm from the greatest country in the world!" he replied cheerfully. "Ethiopia?" I surmised. "That's right, man!"

    Generally speaking Ethiopian women have paler skin than West Africans – coffee with cream instead of black coffee and their hair texture (even before chemical treatments) is wavy/frizzy rather than completely wooly. And their noses are narrower/sharper than W. African noses. So all in all they are closer to the Western beauty ideal.

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  99. Doug says:
    @Barnard

    It’s simply a matter of funding these initiatives, which have largely been cutoff in the past two decades.
     
    Who is cutting off the funding? The Gates Foundation, among many other groups have been funding these initiatives at high levels. The problem is that they aren't having that much success lower birthrates so far. Residents of third world countries need a lot of persuasion to have fewer children.

    > Who is cutting off the funding?

    A combination of Republicans, who don’t want to touch the reproductive health issues for fear of inflaming the evangelicals, and liberals, who want to avoid any appearance of racism. Trump dissapointingly completely cut off US funding of UNFPA. On this, Trump is dumb as hell. Every $0.05 the US saves on a condom in South Sudan is a potential $1 million in pubic services to a future unemployable refugee.

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    • Replies: @Barnard
    You honestly believe that current Sub-Saharan African birth rates are a result of the lack of availability of condoms? The only people using the condoms are the UN peacekeepers. This is an ingrained culture problem.
    , @FPD72
    Another unsupported statement to the effect that evangelicals are opposed to contraception. Please, name mainstream evangelical leaders who are opposed to all forms of contraception.

    Most evangelicals share with Catholics opposition to abortion. That doesn’t mean agreement on contraception. There is discussion and debate about some forms of contraception that are thought to involve abortifacients, but none among mainstream leaders about condoms, diaphragms, spermicides, etc.
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  100. @AnotherDad
    Jack, what's even the argumentative point of your comment?

    Logically, it's
    -- once upon a time someone said something disparaging about some (vaguely defined) group of people, which turned out to be incorrect (or at least incomplete)
    -- ergo calling another group of people 'history's losers" is fraught (or something?)

    Hey, someone once called Janey "ugly" and she turned out to be reasonably cute girl, so watch it calling that Oklahoma two-sacker "ugly". Ok.

    If we're on a blog about noticing human differences, one of the *most* noticeable--both observationally and statistically (academic tests, crime and income statistics)--is that blacks just don't perform very well in modern white civilized societies. And not just relative to whites, but to pretty much all other groups trying their hands at it.

    We can all be "polite" and good non-"racist!" liberals and bury our heads in the sand about it. Or we can actually use our brains and say "yes there is a very clear long historical pattern here--worldwide--of black underperformance". And then draw whatever from that whatever we can in terms of intellectual understanding (sociological and historical interpretation), policy recommendations, etc.

    – once upon a time someone said something disparaging about some (vaguely defined) group of people, which turned out to be incorrect (or at least incomplete)
    – ergo calling another group of people ‘history’s losers” is fraught (or something?)

    And this sort of logic is the best Steven Pinker can come up with to rebut the alt-right.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Always good to beat a straw man. You win every time.
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  101. Jack D says:
    @Nigerian Nationalist
    A. Ethiopians are diverse--no I'm not parodying your people, they really are--. You people just don't look enough, it's the equivalent of my concluding that all Americans are buff blondes.

    i. So I could find a Tutsi or Fulani, hell I know some Igbo who look Ethiopian, ditto a Hutu that looks Ethiopian.

    B. A Scandinavian looks nothing like the Mediterranean, yet people on here keep classifying them as part of the "White race". I don't claim to be an expert, but surely these variations are a matter of adaptation to diet and climate?

    -----
    Tell me the difference between Desalegn: https://www.google.com.ng/search?q=Hailemariam+Desalegn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjnj5Gx46XZAhUC-6QKHXAVAeAQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=662

    and Peter Obi: https://www.google.com.ng/search?biw=1366&bih=662&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=JV2EWvG2HMKSsAf1obO4Bg&q=peter+obi&oq=peter+obi&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l10.44292.45880.0.46153.9.9.0.0.0.0.261.922.2-4.4.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..5.4.919...0i67k1.0.qxzKzkeSoGc

    There are no representative pictures of the Fulani/Ethiopian mix I was talking about, but personally, I've seen Fulani who have the angular features of Ethiopian stereotype.

    I realize that in Africa in general it’s more useful to speak about tribe rather than nationality but most Americans wouldn’t know an Igbo from a Fulani if one hit them.

    2nd it’s possible to speak about a national “look” even if many people deviate from the stereotype or there are several phenotypes – there are Jews who look like Aryan poster boys and Nazis who look Jewish, but most people know what you are talking about if you say that X looks German or Y looks Jewish. Similarly there is a certain average Ethiopian “look” which on the whole looks different than the average Igbo appearance, even though there are many exceptions in both groups.

    I would say that the giveaway is usually the nose – even if the Igbo woman has straightened her hair and lightened her skin, her nose is always going to be broader at the nostrils than an Ethiopian nose in almost all cases. Also Ethiopians tend to have long faces with V shaped chins. The chin shape is distinctive.

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    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    But that's the thing, the Ethiopians you keep describing, odds are, are Amharic: https://kwekudee-tripdownmemorylane.blogspot.com.ng/2014/08/amhara-people-ethiopias-most-culturally.html

    Now compare them to say Oromo who tend towards: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/002_Oromo_Liberation_Front_rebels.JPG/220px-002_Oromo_Liberation_Front_rebels.JPG

    Desalegn is Tigrayan.

    Then you throw in the fact that the sort of ethnic exclusivity that creates the Nordic or Jewish look is pretty much dying out in Africa, in addition to never having been much of a thing, and the idea of ethnic looks starts to look shaky.
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  102. Jack D says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    – once upon a time someone said something disparaging about some (vaguely defined) group of people, which turned out to be incorrect (or at least incomplete)
    – ergo calling another group of people ‘history’s losers” is fraught (or something?)


    And this sort of logic is the best Steven Pinker can come up with to rebut the alt-right.

    Always good to beat a straw man. You win every time.

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  103. MEH 0910 says:
    @Arclight
    The mania for Wakanka sort of reminds me of a statement TNC made some years ago...the gist of which is that he needs to believe in certain ideas about American blacks (like their condition is entirely the fault of white racism) because the alternative is that they are just basically history's losers, which is too painful to contemplate. I am sympathetic to this view up to a point, except unlike a lot of other groups who decided they are sick of being on the bottom and work over generations to find a place in society, it is now just a catch-all excuse that accompanies a demand that they be given special treatment.
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  104. @AnotherDad

    You know, with the mass hunger, the labor camps, the Orwellian cult of personality, getting family members to inform on each other, that kind of thing.
     
    A kind of handy marker of an evil totalitarian regime is that it wants to get inside the family and undermine it--create informants, do "reconstruction".

    In a healthy civilization, there is an organic civil society that is built *on top* of the family. Husbands and wives and children trust each other and are working on the joint project of their family's
    survival, success and sucession to the next generation. Whatever the nature of the regime, in a healthy civilization they respect the family as bedrock and work to keep it health or at minimum leave it alone.

    “In a healthy civilization, there is an organic civil society that is built *on top* of the family. Husbands and wives and children trust each other and are working on the joint project of their family’s survival, success and sucession to the next generation. Whatever the nature of the regime, in a healthy civilization they respect the family as bedrock and work to keep it health or at minimum leave it alone.”

    I know of a UK family where the teenage son was being a mouthy teenage son, his mother slapped him, and he called the police. She didn’t end up in court (I think she was cautioned), but she lost her job as a school nurse (at an expensive private school).

    I hope his parents disowned him, but I don’t know what that episode did to that family. Wouldn’t think it could ever be the same.

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  105. Svigor says:

    There is no African group called “Negroes” scientifically, anthropologically or even historically.”

    I suppose Bantus is what he’s referring to? A rose by any other name…

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  106. @Jack D
    Putting aside that "race does not exist", if you look at, for example, a Bushman (Khoisan), a Bantu and an Ethiopian you can pretty clearly see that they don't really look like each other, while they resemble their fellow "tribesmen" a lot. This goes with Steve's idea that races are really just (very) extended families.

    Around the time of the last-but-one set of Kenyan elections (2007/8) the BBC news website showed a useful map of the tribes round Nairobi – turned out to be rather a lot of them, maybe 25 or so.

    Now to me, one Kenyan looks pretty like another, except the difference between the Nilotics and the rest. But a Kenyan street mob could easily tell which of the 25 tribes you belonged to, and so whether or not you should be beaten to death.

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  107. 3g4me says:

    Off Topic: Someone specified the steps for copying an image into Steve’s comment threads, and I neglected to save that comment. I’m looking for it but with so many entries and comments, I’d greatly appreciate if someone would repost the instructions so this time I could copy and learn/memorize them. Many thanks in advance from the technologically semi-literate/lazy.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    When you find an image you want to copy, put your mouse over the image, then right click. One of the menu options will be Copy Image Location. Select that and then do a Paste (Ctrl-v on Windows) into the Unz comment. For Youtube videos, just copy the Url of the page.

    Now somebody tell me how to do strike through.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    About the youtube videos, to add to what Jim Don Bob replied to you - this is just from experience here: If you are using a mobile device (smart phone or tablet) the URL (the string of text that you end up pasting in, with your fingers on this type of device), the video won't be embedded*, unless you use your keypad and delete the "m" here - "blah_blah://m.youtube.com /blah_blah" and put "www" in there. Make it "blah_blah://www.youtube.com/blah_blah". I don't know if this is a known bug or feature, but it's my experience.

    Secondly, if you do any last minute editing in that 5-minute window and save that, the video will also not end up embedded*. When I screw up something that way, I will "cut" all the text (meaning it's saved in the computer's/tablet's "clipboard") press Unz's "SAVE" button which says you're going to lose the comment and click "OK". You'll wipe out your comment, but make another by just "pasting" in your stuff from before, fix it in the first edit window (NOT the one with the 5 minute timer - before that) and then SUBMIT again.


    * Being embedded means the readers can see the picture of the video ready to play, as you want. Otherwise, it will still be a link, but most people don't want to click on something that gets them off the page here.

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  108. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    There was a kind of Wakanda is COMING TO AMERICA. A Blingopolis of many wonders.

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  109. MEH 0910 says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    That was a good short history of Ethiopia, a country that I'd never given much thought about since I got tired of seeing Meathead's wife on TV ("Hey, go where the food is!!" [/Bobcat]).

    I noticed on the web-page of your article on Takimag, to my surprise, that you or Taki Takidoplous are under the erroneous impression that I, as the reader, am a stamp collector. The ad shown below is really not anything I'd be interested in, and you would be wise to go back to your previous policy of showing me ads for videos of Oriental girls in bikinis.

    What's shocking though, is the pure racism of this ad. It's like the current year is 1850 ADC, in which a black man is worth only 3/5 of a white man. Just look at the denomination of the stamp, sir. 29 cents vs. the current 49 cent stamp price is 3/5, after rounding. I can't ... even ....

    .... use this stamp, as I'd end up covering up the envelope with 1 centers to get a letter mailed.

    http://www.peakstupidity.com/images/stamp-ad.jpg

    (“Hey, go where the food is!!” [/Bobcat]).

    I think you mean [/Kinison].

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Oops, thanks MEH. I always did confuse those two comedians.
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  110. @Jack D
    Funny, for "history's losers" they have completely taken over the Caribbean and squeezed out the white race. A few hundred thousand imported slaves are now tens of millions in the US. Evolution only cares about reproductive success and not any other kind.

    Maybe blacks are not the greatest geniuses but somehow high intelligence in the modern world leads to cat ladyhood and far below replacement birth rates. You had better get used to a world that is browner and dumber. Maybe you don't really need that many smart people to keep a civilization running. In (most parts of) the Caribbean society functions pretty well with only a sprinkling of whites. It's only when you decide to completely get rid of whitey (Zimbabwe, Haiti) that things really go south.

    “… somehow high intelligence in the modern world leads to cat ladyhood … ”

    True and funny. But the intelligent modern world is also filled to the brim with doggy wuvers. See how much your doggy wuvs you after not feeding it for twenty-four hours.

    “You had better get used to a world that is browner and dumber.”

    True and depressing. Sounds like California. I suggest a .45, a 12 gauge pump shotgun, and an AR-15.

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    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    I suggest a .45, a 12 gauge pump shotgun, and an AR-15.

    I second the recommendation, but remember that after using them you will be judged by a jury of your browner, dumber peers.

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  111. utu says:
    @AnotherDad
    Jack, what's even the argumentative point of your comment?

    Logically, it's
    -- once upon a time someone said something disparaging about some (vaguely defined) group of people, which turned out to be incorrect (or at least incomplete)
    -- ergo calling another group of people 'history's losers" is fraught (or something?)

    Hey, someone once called Janey "ugly" and she turned out to be reasonably cute girl, so watch it calling that Oklahoma two-sacker "ugly". Ok.

    If we're on a blog about noticing human differences, one of the *most* noticeable--both observationally and statistically (academic tests, crime and income statistics)--is that blacks just don't perform very well in modern white civilized societies. And not just relative to whites, but to pretty much all other groups trying their hands at it.

    We can all be "polite" and good non-"racist!" liberals and bury our heads in the sand about it. Or we can actually use our brains and say "yes there is a very clear long historical pattern here--worldwide--of black underperformance". And then draw whatever from that whatever we can in terms of intellectual understanding (sociological and historical interpretation), policy recommendations, etc.

    Besides it is debatable (obviously not for Jack D.) whether America with Walker as the president of MIT was worse than America with a Jew from Venezuela as the president of MIT.

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  112. Jefferson says:
    @Jack D
    Funny, for "history's losers" they have completely taken over the Caribbean and squeezed out the white race. A few hundred thousand imported slaves are now tens of millions in the US. Evolution only cares about reproductive success and not any other kind.

    Maybe blacks are not the greatest geniuses but somehow high intelligence in the modern world leads to cat ladyhood and far below replacement birth rates. You had better get used to a world that is browner and dumber. Maybe you don't really need that many smart people to keep a civilization running. In (most parts of) the Caribbean society functions pretty well with only a sprinkling of whites. It's only when you decide to completely get rid of whitey (Zimbabwe, Haiti) that things really go south.

    ” It’s only when you decide to completely get rid of whitey (Zimbabwe, Haiti) that things really go south.”

    Jamaica got rid of their Whites as well. I can’t think of a single member of the Jamaican elite who would be able to pass for White/Whitish.

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    • Replies: @Jamaican
    How did they get rid of them? How many Jamaican elites do you know?
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  113. Barnard says:
    @Doug
    > Who is cutting off the funding?

    A combination of Republicans, who don't want to touch the reproductive health issues for fear of inflaming the evangelicals, and liberals, who want to avoid any appearance of racism. Trump dissapointingly completely cut off US funding of UNFPA. On this, Trump is dumb as hell. Every $0.05 the US saves on a condom in South Sudan is a potential $1 million in pubic services to a future unemployable refugee.

    You honestly believe that current Sub-Saharan African birth rates are a result of the lack of availability of condoms? The only people using the condoms are the UN peacekeepers. This is an ingrained culture problem.

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  114. Jefferson says:
    @Jack D

    In the end, those who see the movie are desiring to be entertained, and generally not thinking about the movie from a Sailerian or SJW lens.
     
    That's the thing about brainwashing - it works best when you think you are just being entertained and not propagandized.

    Also, if white people were only there to be "entertained" by a movie positively depicting whites as a master race having a super-secret all white homeland closed to people of other colors, I don't think that would be accepted by the critics as "mere entertainment". Now part of this is just "man bites dog" is more interesting than vice versa but I've seen a few too many commercials with black doctors, lawyers, executives, etc. (but all the burglars in burglar alarm commercials are white) not to be suspicious:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=american+inventors

    ” (but all the burglars in burglar alarm commercials are white) not to be suspicious:”

    Even Home Alone a film about Chicago burglars they are still White. What percentage of Chicago home burglars racially look like Marv and Harry?

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  115. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Bit out of date mate, Ethiopia's dominant grouping are the Tigrayans these days. Looking forward to seeing the theory update.

    I don’t pretend any specialist or insider knowledge of Ethiopia so hence my question, what about the Oromo?

    Sir Peter Ustinov was 1/16th “Ethiopian” i.e., descended of Oromo royalty. One of his forebears was a German Christian-Jewish-convert adventurer who traveled in Ethiopia and married a half-German half-Oromo royal woman. They moved to Palestine and raised a large family, owned a lot of land in Jaffa. I don’t know how Ustinov came to be born in England.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Sir Peter Ustinov was 1/16th “Ethiopian” i.e., descended of Oromo royalty.
     
    So, is he related to Pushkin?
    , @Nigerian Nationalist
    They are, I think, one of the larger ethnic groups but judging from their recent protests, a faction feels relegated politically.
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  116. Jefferson says:
    @Jack D
    I mostly agree with you - read the last line of my comments. Although just like there are 7 foot tall Chinese basketball players, in a continent of over 1 billion people there are some pretty smart Africans (every year there is a news story about some Nigerian Igbo immigrant who has been accepted by every last Ivy League college - maybe he/she is no great genius but compared to the bunch that we have they stand out).

    But on the whole I think that the odds that American blacks (blacks anywhere) are on the verge of their big breakthrough if only whitey would loosen the screws of racism a little bit more are pretty low at this point. Likewise, I don't have a lot of hope that Mexicans are going to be the new Jews or even the new Southern Italians (although the latter is a little closer) - again Mexicans (meaning Mestizos) have been around for a long time and if they were going to shine they would have already. But, OTOH, I think a lot of the commentariat here misunderestimate the capabilities of the various flavors of Asian and they will be as wrong about them as Walker was about the Ellis Island immigrants. (That being said, capabilities are not the beginning and end of the discussion.)

    “I don’t have a lot of hope that Mexicans are going to be the new Jews or even the new Southern Italians (although the latter is a little closer)”

    Mexicans and Italians are not comparible at all. Average per capita household income Italians earn significantly more than Mexicans and Italians are less likely to be on welfare than Mexicans.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    I'm comparing the average Sicilian immigrant of 1898 with the average Mexican immigrant of 2018 - there's some difference but some similarity - Catholic, working in the building trades such as masonry, etc.
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  117. Flip says:
    @Samuel Skinner
    Both the Amish and Ultra-Orthodox Jews have higher birth rates and higher levels of intelligence. Don't count out the white race; the American Empire may commit suicide by leftism, but its collapse will bring about organized violence which whites excel at.

    I’ve heard the opposite of Amish IQ given their inbreeding. I don’t know how ultra Orthodox Jews compare to garden variety Jews, but I suspect it is lower.

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  118. …that Red China was, when you stopped and thought about it, better than America (which had just landed a man upon the moon).

    Using, as Tom Wolfe pointed out, inches and pounds. Take that, Napoleon!

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  119. @SunBakedSuburb
    "... somehow high intelligence in the modern world leads to cat ladyhood ... "

    True and funny. But the intelligent modern world is also filled to the brim with doggy wuvers. See how much your doggy wuvs you after not feeding it for twenty-four hours.

    "You had better get used to a world that is browner and dumber."

    True and depressing. Sounds like California. I suggest a .45, a 12 gauge pump shotgun, and an AR-15.

    I suggest a .45, a 12 gauge pump shotgun, and an AR-15.

    I second the recommendation, but remember that after using them you will be judged by a jury of your browner, dumber peers.

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    • Replies: @FPD72
    Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
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  120. @Obsessive Contrarian
    I don't pretend any specialist or insider knowledge of Ethiopia so hence my question, what about the Oromo?

    Sir Peter Ustinov was 1/16th "Ethiopian" i.e., descended of Oromo royalty. One of his forebears was a German Christian-Jewish-convert adventurer who traveled in Ethiopia and married a half-German half-Oromo royal woman. They moved to Palestine and raised a large family, owned a lot of land in Jaffa. I don't know how Ustinov came to be born in England.

    Sir Peter Ustinov was 1/16th “Ethiopian” i.e., descended of Oromo royalty.

    So, is he related to Pushkin?

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    • Replies: @Obsessive Contrarian
    No. "Gannibal" was taken as a slave. He wasn't Ethiopian.

    You can look all this up yourself on a place called the Internet.
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  121. Jefferson says:
    @nebulafox
    Outside of Africa, the world as a whole has done a pretty good job of cutting down on birth rates. You have your outliers here and there-Pakistan, Philippines (Duterte's open hostility to the Catholic Church stems not least from this issue), etc-but Brazil, India, Mexico, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Iran are all down to two kids per woman. These are countries that would have been at 6 not eons ago. China, South Korea, too, were at 6 kids per woman in the 1950s, and they've gone below replacement rate. Even the likes of Saudi Arabia is down to three children per woman. Etc, etc. So, not to go all Dr. Pangloss, but most of humanity has gotten their act together on this issue, even conservative Muslim cultures. Places like South Asia are still going to experience a "demographic wave", as is the norm for countries at their stage of development, but they've at least capped the peak, and now that they've stopped the proverbial bleeding, they can prepare for that wave.

    That Trump has listened to the arguments of the old Dubya crowd on this issue is highly irresponsible, needless to say. Condoms, abortions, female education, latter marriage, financial incentives for sterilization, the fear of punishment, economic or social, the simple realization that you can afford to do more with a few kids-whatever works to get people to practice family planning. The tools matter less than the result, which would massively improve the lives of both Africans and Westerners. That said, it isn't purely the West's fault here. It isn't just a matter of funding these kinds of programs from the outside-you also have to get the local governments to embrace it and carry it out. African governments that are willing to do so and are capable of carrying out the necessary policy measures (in Lee Kwan Yew-esque authoritarian fashion if necessary, as... will probably be the case more times than the Wilsonians in the State Department want to admit) are doing so: Paul Kagame's Rwanda serves as one particular example.

    One that cannot, or worse yet, actively do not want to, on the other hand...

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/25/africa/africa-population-growth-un/index.html

    http://www.dw.com/en/africa-population-growth-key-at-au-summit/a-39505136

    “Outside of Africa, the world as a whole has done a pretty good job of cutting down on birth rates.”

    One day I can see Africa surpassing Asia in population, maybe even during my lifetime because I’m still quite young and am nowhere close yet to qualify for AARP.

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    • Replies: @nebulafox
    Oh, that's probably a foregone conclusion at this point. Nigeria alone is going to surpass the US by 2050.
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  122. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Nigerian Nationalist
    A. Ethiopians are diverse--no I'm not parodying your people, they really are--. You people just don't look enough, it's the equivalent of my concluding that all Americans are buff blondes.

    i. So I could find a Tutsi or Fulani, hell I know some Igbo who look Ethiopian, ditto a Hutu that looks Ethiopian.

    B. A Scandinavian looks nothing like the Mediterranean, yet people on here keep classifying them as part of the "White race". I don't claim to be an expert, but surely these variations are a matter of adaptation to diet and climate?

    -----
    Tell me the difference between Desalegn: https://www.google.com.ng/search?q=Hailemariam+Desalegn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjnj5Gx46XZAhUC-6QKHXAVAeAQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=662

    and Peter Obi: https://www.google.com.ng/search?biw=1366&bih=662&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=JV2EWvG2HMKSsAf1obO4Bg&q=peter+obi&oq=peter+obi&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l10.44292.45880.0.46153.9.9.0.0.0.0.261.922.2-4.4.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..5.4.919...0i67k1.0.qxzKzkeSoGc

    There are no representative pictures of the Fulani/Ethiopian mix I was talking about, but personally, I've seen Fulani who have the angular features of Ethiopian stereotype.

    There are many types of different apes in this world, but they are still apes.

    Black apes, yellow apes, red apes, brown apes, white men.

    One is not like the others.

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  123. Currahee says:
    @AnotherDad

    The mania for Wakanka sort of reminds me of a statement TNC made some years ago…the gist of which is that he needs to believe in certain ideas about American blacks (like their condition is entirely the fault of white racism) because the alternative is that they are just basically history’s losers, which is too painful to contemplate.
     
    Arclight illuminates the issue!

    One could trot out examples, evidence, go book length, heck fill volumes. The bottom line here is that essentially since 1960--basically over the arc of my life--the US has effectively conducted a natural experiment into where exactly the fault for "the Negro problem" lies. And the answer has come back--really has been back even charitably for twenty years or more--"with the Negros themselves".

    This failure has been made even more glaring by our "elites" insistence on "invite the world". The relative success of every other ethnic group in the world showing up in America has highlighted that blacks really are "just basically history's losers". Not demographically certainly, but in terms of being about to function in--much less run--a modern civilization. (I guess we could import some Australian aboriginies, or better yet Adaman Islanders to debunk this.)

    This is just generally ... depressing. It's pretty depressing to white Americans like me. The Obamania was 95% idealistic--and usually well isolated from blacks--whites clinging on to some desire for it not to be true, for there still to be some hope, if blacks could just see themselves ... if ... if ... if.

    And it's got to be even more depressing to the middle class blacks who aren't screwups, but are racially tethered to a lot of screwups, outright criminals and general dysfunction and mediocrity, and think "i know we can and should be doing better than this!" It's so much more pleasant to think "whitey messed us up!", "we wuz kangz!" than admit that your tribe is full of a bunch of boneheads. Denial ... it ain't just a river in Abyssinia.

    Ronald Reagan re. Nat King Cole:

    “Why can’t they all be like that?”

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  124. Jefferson says:

    Black people feeling racially proud of Wakanda and using it as an example of Black excellence would be the equivalent of if White people felt racially proud of Asgard and used it as an example of White excellence.

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  125. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Samuel Skinner
    The Greeks were white. Arabic numerals are from India, presumably invented by the upper castes which have high levels of white admixture. Everything in Western Civilization comes from white people or the Chinese.

    Not the fire. The fire comes from Africa.

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  126. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Wakanda-ism epitomizes what the Rest failed to understand about the West.

    It’s like in LAWRENCE OF ARABIA. Ali thinks the Great Britain is powerful because it has ‘guns’. But the British officer says it’s about discipline. Brits are better organized, better led, better managed. After all, guns didn’t fall out of the sky. Brits had them because they had the organization to run factories and mines and transportation systems.

    When the non-West peoples were confronted with the power of the West, they tended to focus on the outer manifestations of Western Power. West is powerful because it has Guns, Ships, and etc. So, the Turks bought all that stuff from the West to keep up. Problem was Turks couldn’t make that stuff on their own. And if they just barely managed to copy Western guns and ships, the West had already made even bigger guns and faster ships. So, what the Turks learned to make was already obsolete. Chinese in the 19th century also tried to imitate the shell of the West without really looking into the internal mechanism of Western power. Japanese were among the few who realized that the Western power flows from something INSIDE the Western system, and this is what the Japanese emulated; they understood this would entail fundamental changes in Japan itself.

    So, the real power is in the knowledge, values, and will. Harvard is not a leading university because of its nice buildings and quad. If we move the faculty and students of Harvard to a third-rate university and move the faculty and students of the third rate faculty to Harvard, the once-third-rate institution will be a first-rate institution because it has the better professors and students.

    [MORE]

    Indeed, even people who achieved great thing could fall under the sway of the fallacy of idolatry of power. Egyptians built great monuments and came under the spell of their own creations. It was as if Egyptian power was assured eternity and grandeur because Egyptian monuments were so awesome. But when Egyptians lost their way, their monuments couldn’t save them. Same with Romans. Romans built mega-structures at the peak of their power. But in the end, Roman power was really about organization, management, and discipline. When those virtues had faded, the monuments were just empty idols. It’s like a a man can work hard and buy a big mansion and nice cars to show off his wealth. But if he loses his way and grows lazy, his mansion and jewels aren’t going to save him. He will end up in bankruptcy court. Jews were wise about the danger of idol-worship. It’s the spirit itself that counts, not some object that symbolizes that spirit.

    Richard Kapuchinski(sic) the controversial(creative with truth at time) Polish journalist noticed how Third World nations had a mistaken view of Western affluence and power. In the center of many Third World capitals he visited, all the trappings of Western-style power could be found.
    Apparently, the rulers thought that the Western nations are rich and powerful because they have nice buildings and monuments. By this logic, the Third World could catch up to the West by having nice buildings in the center of the city too. But this was putting the cart before the horse. It overlooked the fact of Western institutions of education, cultivation, management, and organization that have developed over long history of trial and error. Western buildings and monuments were the product of Western virtues, knowledge, and organization. But so many in the Third World got it backwards. Sukarno’s idea of economic progress was living like a Western boy in his own palaces. The Marcoses were hardly different. The core center of Addis Ababa looked fabulous until you drove few blocks out into the rest of the city.
    It’s like trying to grow a tree by planting branches in the ground. But the only real way to grow a tree is to have the seeds, the right kind of soil, the right amount of sunlight and rain.

    This was why Third World nations were so ridiculous. If you went to the center of the capital, you could almost believe you were in Europe with its hotels and government buildings and monuments and nice things. But there was nothing of education, enterprise, or management to support any real economy in the Third World. It was just fancy jewelry worn by a poor person who has no real idea how to get rich. Third World regimes just borrowed lots of money, spent them all on bling-idol-monuments, and neglected the crucial matters of having the right kinds of institutions and values.

    But then, the US came up with housing bubble economy on the basis that non-homeowners could be real homeowners by being handed loans to buy homes they could never pay for. And the spread of gambling has fooled so many people that casinos can be the foundation of a real economies. This is what happens when work ethic and culture of integrity go out the window. It’s all about the bling.

    One thing I noticed about blacks when I used to live in the city. In the project where I used to live, black apartments stood out. Whenever I visited my black friends, the interior was filled with all sorts of nouveau-riche-looking crap. I mean they were living in the project for chrissakes. These people had working class jobs(in the mid 70s when such stuff still existed in good numbers for blacks). But the stuff on their walls, the various objects, the rugs, and etc were all a pretense that they were like ‘kangz’ and ‘queeons’ and shi*. They were living in a kind of delusion of being richer beyond their actual means. It was a bling-mentality. The non-black families understood their lot in life better.
    And there was this black woman who used to come to the video place where I used to work. She had some low-end job, but she spent every last penny every week on wigs, nails, and dress. I don’t think she had any money saved up, but she just had to do whatever to go the Michael Jackson concert. Total lack of priorities. Blacks are biggest idolators in the world. Even black concept of soul is not about depth but about volume and noise.

    This Wakanda is more of this nonsense. If Jews and whites really want to help blacks, they should focus less on bling and more on the being. An honest emphasis on the importance of Being honest, self-critical, diligent, respectful, responsible, and sane. Without the change of the heart, nothing will change. Funny that the sitcom Sanford and Son offered a better lesson on this than the latest blingfest.

    What is the Nasty Coates’ next book gonna be on? Black Cities, Black Cities much greater than Cities that think they are Western.

    Now, from a HBD angle, it’s far more complicated than morality and values. Due to racial differences, it’s more difficult for blacks to practice the kind of values and virtues that sustain social stability. By their own jungalo nature, blacks are bound to be more restless and disruptive in school. And black men and black women are more likely to insult one another like in that BB King song and black nastiness on Love Connection.

    Now, if society and culture were more restrained and shame-oriented, maybe blacks can be pressured to be better. And there was some success in reining in black aggression in Cuba, a police state. But esp after the cultural revolutions of the 60s, blacks are out of control, and white people don’t have the moral prestige anymore to pressure blacks to be a ‘credit to their race’.
    That is problematic. Jim Crow era was obviously unjust on the basis of US constitution, but blacks led stabler lives under white rule. Injustice made for stabler lives for blacks, and justice made for crazier lives for blacks. Damned if you, damned if you don’t.

    Still, Wakanda-ism is totally retarded as Back-to -Third World delusion that the West is rich because it LOOKS rich.
    But how did nations like Germany and Japan rise from the utter rubble of WWII? They sure didn’t look good after the war. They had something called national character and a culture of working together and being responsible. And even under communism, the Poles were able to rebuild Warsaw and make it look presentable again. Poles also have some virtues as a people.

    What we need is a Rules for Blacks based on combination of ideas on culture, values, and race. It’s like doctors now treat patients differently based on varying racial patterns in diseases. So, while there is a set of universally applicable moral values and social virtues, there also has to be an honest discussion of how and why races will take to those values differently. Some will take to them easier while others will not. But LTGTR theory probably got Sailer the most flak for just mentioning it. It’s the taboo that has to be overcome. LTGTR sounds pretty mild but maybe it wasn’t properly respectful to the race that is all about demanding Respeck and shi*. Maybe “want it now than later” might be more acceptable.

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    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    Funny you should write this--and a good job you did of it too. I was thinking along the same lines just the other day. Just as you say, Black people mistake the stuff of civilization for the essence. They think that if they could only get their hands on whitey's stuff then they would finally have their just desserts. But as we all know, even if they got all the stuff in the world, it would all soon turn to sh*t, just look at Detroit etc.

    They just can't comprehend that the secret sauce is technique. It's not a thing, it's a formal organization. Again, this is where Plato shines forth as the first thinker of the West. Before him, the early philosophers sought the essential stuff of the Universe in matter. Plato said, "No, it's the formal organization of matter" that is the essence. Chemists say much the same thing today. All elements are made of the same stuff. They differ in the formal organization of that stuff.

    The black man is stuck in a more primitive, concrete operational (to use Piaget's terminology) mindset. The only way to get him to evolve is to crossbreed him with whites. Liberal leading lights know this (though they won't admit it publicly) and that is why they promote miscegenation. Unfortunately, in the process white IQs will be brought down halfway to the black level.
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  127. @Reg Cæsar

    Sir Peter Ustinov was 1/16th “Ethiopian” i.e., descended of Oromo royalty.
     
    So, is he related to Pushkin?

    No. “Gannibal” was taken as a slave. He wasn’t Ethiopian.

    You can look all this up yourself on a place called the Internet.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    You can look all this up yourself on a place called the Internet.

     

    I thought that's what I just did.
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  128. @Hapalong Cassidy
    It’s interesting that Ethiopia is the only sub-Saharan African country to have a noteworthy cuisine, or at least the only one to have ethnic restaurants. While it’s tasty, I wonder how much of it has been catered to American tastes.

    And for what it’s worth, Ethiopian women are the most attractive black women on the planet.

    Thing is, Ethiopians and Somalians look very different from other Sub-Saharan Africans. Enough so that I almost consider them a separate race.

    And speaking of which, I’ve noticed Ethiopian immigrants don’t seem to anywhere near the troublemakers that Somalis are. Probably for two reasons; 1. We were more selective with the Ethiopians, never bringing them in as refugees, and 2. The dysgenic effects of Islam (i.e. Somalis are to Ethiopians as Pakistanis are to Indians).

    A lot of the first wave of Ethiopians were royalist refugees from the Communist overthrow of the emperor. E.g., the beautiful Ethiopian girl I met at UCLA was the daughter of the emperor’s ambassador to Washington. She probably had a lengthy pedigree in aristocratic guidebooks to genealogy.

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  129. Corvinus says:
    @Jack D
    Putting aside that "race does not exist", if you look at, for example, a Bushman (Khoisan), a Bantu and an Ethiopian you can pretty clearly see that they don't really look like each other, while they resemble their fellow "tribesmen" a lot. This goes with Steve's idea that races are really just (very) extended families.

    “Funny, for “history’s losers” they have completely taken over the Caribbean and squeezed out the white race. A few hundred thousand imported slaves are now tens of millions in the US. Evolution only cares about reproductive success and not any other kind.”

    Perhaps you are way overemphasizing evolution and the white race. Why not focus on people instead?

    “Maybe blacks are not the greatest geniuses but somehow high intelligence in the modern world leads to cat ladyhood and far below replacement birth rates.”

    I truly cannot wrap my head around this Alt Right obsession on below replacement birth rates. It sounds like a cult.

    “Putting aside that “race does not exist”, if you look at, for example, a Bushman (Khoisan), a Bantu and an Ethiopian you can pretty clearly see that they don’t really look like each other, while they resemble their fellow “tribesmen” a lot. This goes with Steve’s idea that races are really just (very) extended families.”

    Race does exist–it is a biological and social construct. People put labels on the things to make sense of their world. For example, the California spotted owl is an animal, i.e. a biological construct. The name of the creature is a human designation—-strix occidentalis. That is, binomial nomenclature refers to a formal system, developed by human beings, to name a species. The California owl was not a “California owl” until someone actually and specifically named it.

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  130. Like I said, I know nothing about Ethiopia, but when I was an adventurous traveling youth, I met people who were far more adventurous than I, who had traveled in the hinterlands of Aethopia, which in the 80s was very hinterlandy indeed.

    They said that it was not uncommon to find an aging Italian man who had stayed behind after the Italian wars there. They married local lasses and always ran a bakery. So you’d find a place in the middle of nowhere, Ethiopia, that sold decent pasta and Italian bread.

    The Italian genes account for a tiny fraction of the startlingly European looks of some Ethiops. The majority derive from a huge influx of West Asian genes about 40 generations ago.

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    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    Like I said, I know nothing about Ethiopia, but when I was an adventurous traveling youth, I met people who were far more adventurous than I, who had traveled in the hinterlands of Aethopia, which in the 80s was very hinterlandy indeed.

    They said that it was not uncommon to find an aging Italian man who had stayed behind after the Italian wars there. They married local lasses and always ran a bakery. So you’d find a place in the middle of nowhere, Ethiopia, that sold decent pasta and Italian bread.
     

    I can confirm that, having been there, and been out to the hinterlands as a kid with my family, in 1964.

    Villa Verde was one such restaurant in the middle of nowhere and I remember that their lasagna was really good. For some weird, odd reason, my childhood memories of Ethiopia are near photographic.

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  131. Why did the Africans built pyramids/obelisks? Because their Khemistry is used to tap into the earth grid and leylines to affect the weather and consciousness. No really. It’s on Youtube so it must be true.

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  132. Jamaican says:
    @Jefferson
    " It’s only when you decide to completely get rid of whitey (Zimbabwe, Haiti) that things really go south."

    Jamaica got rid of their Whites as well. I can't think of a single member of the Jamaican elite who would be able to pass for White/Whitish.

    How did they get rid of them? How many Jamaican elites do you know?

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  133. L Woods says:
    @AndrewR
    The stupid edit-timer got me, so let me elaborate: my impression is that 1960s leftists were anti-racist in a much more literal sense than their 2010s counterparts who are "anti-racist" in a more Orwellian sense of being anti-white. White supremacy was actually real back then instead of being the figment of leftist mass psychosis like it is in 2018. Other than outliers like (((Susan Sonntag))) and Ann Dunham, I think most leftists didn't hate whites per se. Of course, I have no memory of that decade and I bet you don't either, so I can't speak from lived experience.

    You’re giving the left far too much benefit of the doubt. I’m not really sure how a country that was ~90% white (and virtually entirely so for vast swathes) could be anything but “white supremacist” in any case.

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  134. syonredux says:
    @Samuel Skinner
    The Amish were originally from Germany. Germany has a higher IQ then Italy, Poland, Greece, France- pretty much everywhere but England and Scandinavia. While leaving might select for IQ now, that would be recent- for most of their history the Amish weren't very different from the rest of society.

    The Amish were originally from Germany. Germany has a higher IQ then Italy, Poland, Greece, France- pretty much everywhere but England and Scandinavia. While leaving might select for IQ now, that would be recent- for most of their history the Amish weren’t very different from the rest of society.

    Yeah, but my question was: Is the average Amish IQ higher than the White American average? In other words, is it over 100?

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    • Replies: @Jasper Been
    I doubt it. Either way, the Amish are a cult.
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  135. syonredux says:
    @Corvinus
    "That’s the thing about brainwashing – it works best when you think you are just being entertained and not propagandized."

    Except the audience is not being brainwashed. They are watching something they want to watch. Perhaps you are the one who is being intellectually bamboozled here. Black Panther is entertainment, period. It's the Coalition of the Fringes who want to politicize it.

    "Also, if white people were only there to be “entertained” by a movie positively depicting whites as a master race having a super-secret all white homeland closed to people of other colors, I don’t think that would be accepted by the critics as “mere entertainment”.

    Watch "The Avengers" films and get back to us.

    "Now part of this is just “man bites dog” is more interesting than vice versa but I’ve seen a few too many commercials with black doctors, lawyers, executives, etc. (but all the burglars in burglar alarm commercials are white) not to be suspicious".

    The reality is that our society, in particular Generation Z, is on board with showing people from different walks of life in commercials. It is reflective of America in the present time. Besides, how do these depictions impact you personally?

    “Also, if white people were only there to be “entertained” by a movie positively depicting whites as a master race having a super-secret all white homeland closed to people of other colors, I don’t think that would be accepted by the critics as “mere entertainment”.

    Watch “The Avengers” films and get back to us.

    The Avengers was set in “a super-secret all white homeland closed to people of other colors?” For that matter, does this mean that a White “master race” takes orders from Samuel L Jackson?

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  136. Arclight says:
    @syonredux
    There was an Ethiopian girl in my High School; she was markedly more attractive than all but the most European-admixed of the native Blacks.

    She also didn't hang out with the Blacks; her friends were all White, and she spoke with a General American accent (i.e., there was no trace of African American Vernacular in her voice).

    DC has a decent-sized Ethiopian immigrant population – for the most part, they don’t want anything to do with American blacks and look down on them.

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  137. @Samuel Skinner
    The Greeks were white. Arabic numerals are from India, presumably invented by the upper castes which have high levels of white admixture. Everything in Western Civilization comes from white people or the Chinese.

    The Greeks were not White–they are Indo-European, but that’d create the problem, for you, of including people you don’t consider white.

    Presumably is as stupid as the presumably real nation of Wakanda.

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    • Replies: @Jay Ritchie
    IIRC Greeks were not considered white under Rhodesian law. I've also read that they were restricted from immigration to Australia.

    NN Taleb writes about his distaste of northern Europeans claiming some intellectual descent from Greeks (and other Mediterraneans including Romans) - he had a big spat with Mary Beard recently on this subject.
    , @syonredux

    The Greeks were not White–they are Indo-European,
     
    MMM, that must mean that every European who who isn't Basque or Finnish isn't White.....
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  138. @Obsessive Contrarian
    I don't pretend any specialist or insider knowledge of Ethiopia so hence my question, what about the Oromo?

    Sir Peter Ustinov was 1/16th "Ethiopian" i.e., descended of Oromo royalty. One of his forebears was a German Christian-Jewish-convert adventurer who traveled in Ethiopia and married a half-German half-Oromo royal woman. They moved to Palestine and raised a large family, owned a lot of land in Jaffa. I don't know how Ustinov came to be born in England.

    They are, I think, one of the larger ethnic groups but judging from their recent protests, a faction feels relegated politically.

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    • Replies: @Obsessive Contrarian
    Do they feel any sense of kinship with the Amhara? I was a bit surprised to learn that Ustinov's Ethiopian ancestry was Oromo-ese, because I had always thought that the royal family of Ethiopia was Amharic.

    Ethiopia baffles me. It's the only African country I would love to visit.
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  139. @Jack D
    I realize that in Africa in general it's more useful to speak about tribe rather than nationality but most Americans wouldn't know an Igbo from a Fulani if one hit them.

    2nd it's possible to speak about a national "look" even if many people deviate from the stereotype or there are several phenotypes - there are Jews who look like Aryan poster boys and Nazis who look Jewish, but most people know what you are talking about if you say that X looks German or Y looks Jewish. Similarly there is a certain average Ethiopian "look" which on the whole looks different than the average Igbo appearance, even though there are many exceptions in both groups.

    I would say that the giveaway is usually the nose - even if the Igbo woman has straightened her hair and lightened her skin, her nose is always going to be broader at the nostrils than an Ethiopian nose in almost all cases. Also Ethiopians tend to have long faces with V shaped chins. The chin shape is distinctive.

    But that’s the thing, the Ethiopians you keep describing, odds are, are Amharic: https://kwekudee-tripdownmemorylane.blogspot.com.ng/2014/08/amhara-people-ethiopias-most-culturally.html

    Now compare them to say Oromo who tend towards:

    Desalegn is Tigrayan.

    Then you throw in the fact that the sort of ethnic exclusivity that creates the Nordic or Jewish look is pretty much dying out in Africa, in addition to never having been much of a thing, and the idea of ethnic looks starts to look shaky.

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  140. Steve-o says:
    @Neoconned
    Do you have any good books you'd recommend to read on Mao era China? Serious inquiry....

    Mao: A Life by Philip Short is good. Wild Swans also deals with the insanity of the Mao era.

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  141. Corvinus says:
    @utu

    In the end, those who see the movie are desiring to be entertained, and generally not thinking about the movie from a Sailerian or SJW lens.
     
    When you are being entertained you rational critical judgment guards are down then is the greatest opening to your mind to plant memes and ideas. The values and ideas do not come from intentional commercials, propaganda lies by news outlets and pedagogic lectures but from the pop culture. The pop culture rules. Most of your tastes, and distastes, likes and dislikes, inclinations and prejudices come from watching soaps and movies. Thus the Sailerian or SJW lens is appropriate here.

    “When you are being entertained you rational critical judgment guards are down then is the greatest opening to your mind to plant memes and ideas. The values and ideas do not come from intentional commercials, propaganda lies by news outlets and pedagogic lectures but from the pop culture.”

    Except people generally employ the use of reason to discern fantasy from reality. So even though they may get caught up in the moment when watching something, viewers for the most part process what they see. Furthermore, this “planting of memes and ideas” perhaps is not nefarious in nature, but it simply represents what is deemed normal or acceptable in a society.

    “Most of your tastes, and distastes, likes and dislikes, inclinations and prejudices come from watching soaps and movies. Thus the Sailerian or SJW lens is appropriate here.”

    You are giving too little credit to people. They have preferences. Those things come from a number of different avenues–from home to school to popular culture. Whether one factor is more important than another factor is up for fierce debate.

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    • Replies: @utu
    Another sleepwalker. Sorry that I bothered.
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  142. @Anon
    Wakanda-ism epitomizes what the Rest failed to understand about the West.

    It's like in LAWRENCE OF ARABIA. Ali thinks the Great Britain is powerful because it has 'guns'. But the British officer says it's about discipline. Brits are better organized, better led, better managed. After all, guns didn't fall out of the sky. Brits had them because they had the organization to run factories and mines and transportation systems.

    When the non-West peoples were confronted with the power of the West, they tended to focus on the outer manifestations of Western Power. West is powerful because it has Guns, Ships, and etc. So, the Turks bought all that stuff from the West to keep up. Problem was Turks couldn't make that stuff on their own. And if they just barely managed to copy Western guns and ships, the West had already made even bigger guns and faster ships. So, what the Turks learned to make was already obsolete. Chinese in the 19th century also tried to imitate the shell of the West without really looking into the internal mechanism of Western power. Japanese were among the few who realized that the Western power flows from something INSIDE the Western system, and this is what the Japanese emulated; they understood this would entail fundamental changes in Japan itself.

    So, the real power is in the knowledge, values, and will. Harvard is not a leading university because of its nice buildings and quad. If we move the faculty and students of Harvard to a third-rate university and move the faculty and students of the third rate faculty to Harvard, the once-third-rate institution will be a first-rate institution because it has the better professors and students.

    Indeed, even people who achieved great thing could fall under the sway of the fallacy of idolatry of power. Egyptians built great monuments and came under the spell of their own creations. It was as if Egyptian power was assured eternity and grandeur because Egyptian monuments were so awesome. But when Egyptians lost their way, their monuments couldn't save them. Same with Romans. Romans built mega-structures at the peak of their power. But in the end, Roman power was really about organization, management, and discipline. When those virtues had faded, the monuments were just empty idols. It's like a a man can work hard and buy a big mansion and nice cars to show off his wealth. But if he loses his way and grows lazy, his mansion and jewels aren't going to save him. He will end up in bankruptcy court. Jews were wise about the danger of idol-worship. It's the spirit itself that counts, not some object that symbolizes that spirit.

    Richard Kapuchinski(sic) the controversial(creative with truth at time) Polish journalist noticed how Third World nations had a mistaken view of Western affluence and power. In the center of many Third World capitals he visited, all the trappings of Western-style power could be found.
    Apparently, the rulers thought that the Western nations are rich and powerful because they have nice buildings and monuments. By this logic, the Third World could catch up to the West by having nice buildings in the center of the city too. But this was putting the cart before the horse. It overlooked the fact of Western institutions of education, cultivation, management, and organization that have developed over long history of trial and error. Western buildings and monuments were the product of Western virtues, knowledge, and organization. But so many in the Third World got it backwards. Sukarno's idea of economic progress was living like a Western boy in his own palaces. The Marcoses were hardly different. The core center of Addis Ababa looked fabulous until you drove few blocks out into the rest of the city.
    It's like trying to grow a tree by planting branches in the ground. But the only real way to grow a tree is to have the seeds, the right kind of soil, the right amount of sunlight and rain.

    This was why Third World nations were so ridiculous. If you went to the center of the capital, you could almost believe you were in Europe with its hotels and government buildings and monuments and nice things. But there was nothing of education, enterprise, or management to support any real economy in the Third World. It was just fancy jewelry worn by a poor person who has no real idea how to get rich. Third World regimes just borrowed lots of money, spent them all on bling-idol-monuments, and neglected the crucial matters of having the right kinds of institutions and values.

    But then, the US came up with housing bubble economy on the basis that non-homeowners could be real homeowners by being handed loans to buy homes they could never pay for. And the spread of gambling has fooled so many people that casinos can be the foundation of a real economies. This is what happens when work ethic and culture of integrity go out the window. It's all about the bling.

    One thing I noticed about blacks when I used to live in the city. In the project where I used to live, black apartments stood out. Whenever I visited my black friends, the interior was filled with all sorts of nouveau-riche-looking crap. I mean they were living in the project for chrissakes. These people had working class jobs(in the mid 70s when such stuff still existed in good numbers for blacks). But the stuff on their walls, the various objects, the rugs, and etc were all a pretense that they were like 'kangz' and 'queeons' and shi*. They were living in a kind of delusion of being richer beyond their actual means. It was a bling-mentality. The non-black families understood their lot in life better.
    And there was this black woman who used to come to the video place where I used to work. She had some low-end job, but she spent every last penny every week on wigs, nails, and dress. I don't think she had any money saved up, but she just had to do whatever to go the Michael Jackson concert. Total lack of priorities. Blacks are biggest idolators in the world. Even black concept of soul is not about depth but about volume and noise.

    This Wakanda is more of this nonsense. If Jews and whites really want to help blacks, they should focus less on bling and more on the being. An honest emphasis on the importance of Being honest, self-critical, diligent, respectful, responsible, and sane. Without the change of the heart, nothing will change. Funny that the sitcom Sanford and Son offered a better lesson on this than the latest blingfest.

    https://youtu.be/VNDeYBMkMws?t=19m18s

    What is the Nasty Coates' next book gonna be on? Black Cities, Black Cities much greater than Cities that think they are Western.

    Now, from a HBD angle, it's far more complicated than morality and values. Due to racial differences, it's more difficult for blacks to practice the kind of values and virtues that sustain social stability. By their own jungalo nature, blacks are bound to be more restless and disruptive in school. And black men and black women are more likely to insult one another like in that BB King song and black nastiness on Love Connection.

    https://youtu.be/8LQNtqvnE5s?t=5m6s

    Now, if society and culture were more restrained and shame-oriented, maybe blacks can be pressured to be better. And there was some success in reining in black aggression in Cuba, a police state. But esp after the cultural revolutions of the 60s, blacks are out of control, and white people don't have the moral prestige anymore to pressure blacks to be a 'credit to their race'.
    That is problematic. Jim Crow era was obviously unjust on the basis of US constitution, but blacks led stabler lives under white rule. Injustice made for stabler lives for blacks, and justice made for crazier lives for blacks. Damned if you, damned if you don't.

    Still, Wakanda-ism is totally retarded as Back-to -Third World delusion that the West is rich because it LOOKS rich.
    But how did nations like Germany and Japan rise from the utter rubble of WWII? They sure didn't look good after the war. They had something called national character and a culture of working together and being responsible. And even under communism, the Poles were able to rebuild Warsaw and make it look presentable again. Poles also have some virtues as a people.

    What we need is a Rules for Blacks based on combination of ideas on culture, values, and race. It's like doctors now treat patients differently based on varying racial patterns in diseases. So, while there is a set of universally applicable moral values and social virtues, there also has to be an honest discussion of how and why races will take to those values differently. Some will take to them easier while others will not. But LTGTR theory probably got Sailer the most flak for just mentioning it. It's the taboo that has to be overcome. LTGTR sounds pretty mild but maybe it wasn't properly respectful to the race that is all about demanding Respeck and shi*. Maybe "want it now than later" might be more acceptable.

    Funny you should write this–and a good job you did of it too. I was thinking along the same lines just the other day. Just as you say, Black people mistake the stuff of civilization for the essence. They think that if they could only get their hands on whitey’s stuff then they would finally have their just desserts. But as we all know, even if they got all the stuff in the world, it would all soon turn to sh*t, just look at Detroit etc.

    They just can’t comprehend that the secret sauce is technique. It’s not a thing, it’s a formal organization. Again, this is where Plato shines forth as the first thinker of the West. Before him, the early philosophers sought the essential stuff of the Universe in matter. Plato said, “No, it’s the formal organization of matter” that is the essence. Chemists say much the same thing today. All elements are made of the same stuff. They differ in the formal organization of that stuff.

    The black man is stuck in a more primitive, concrete operational (to use Piaget’s terminology) mindset. The only way to get him to evolve is to crossbreed him with whites. Liberal leading lights know this (though they won’t admit it publicly) and that is why they promote miscegenation. Unfortunately, in the process white IQs will be brought down halfway to the black level.

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  143. @3g4me
    Off Topic: Someone specified the steps for copying an image into Steve's comment threads, and I neglected to save that comment. I'm looking for it but with so many entries and comments, I'd greatly appreciate if someone would repost the instructions so this time I could copy and learn/memorize them. Many thanks in advance from the technologically semi-literate/lazy.

    When you find an image you want to copy, put your mouse over the image, then right click. One of the menu options will be Copy Image Location. Select that and then do a Paste (Ctrl-v on Windows) into the Unz comment. For Youtube videos, just copy the Url of the page.

    Now somebody tell me how to do strike through.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Look at what is inserted when you press the blockquote button to

    blockquote something
     
    and instead of blockquote use the word strike to strike something
    , @res

    When you find an image you want to copy, put your mouse over the image, then right click. One of the menu options will be Copy Image Location. Select that and then do a Paste (Ctrl-v on Windows) into the Unz comment. For Youtube videos, just copy the Url of the page.

    Now somebody tell me how to do strike through.
     

    Also make sure the path is just an image and ends in something like .jpg or .png

    For strikethrough use strike, s, or del tags: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikethrough#HTML

    strike

    s

    del

    P.S. s worked in preview, but not in final version so just use strike or del.

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  144. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Ethiopia is of course the home of Neville Goddard’s “black Ethiopian rabbi” who taught him the method of using imagination to create reality (aka Wakanda) which was stolen by N. V. Peale, who taught it to Trump.

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2016/07/feeling-is-the-secret/

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  145. @Nigerian Nationalist
    The Greeks were not White--they are Indo-European, but that'd create the problem, for you, of including people you don't consider white.

    Presumably is as stupid as the presumably real nation of Wakanda.

    IIRC Greeks were not considered white under Rhodesian law. I’ve also read that they were restricted from immigration to Australia.

    NN Taleb writes about his distaste of northern Europeans claiming some intellectual descent from Greeks (and other Mediterraneans including Romans) – he had a big spat with Mary Beard recently on this subject.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    IIRC Greeks were not considered white under Rhodesian law.
     
    Dunno. A top Rhodesian pilot during WW2 was Greek*.Do you have any links for that one?

    I’ve also read that they were restricted from immigration to Australia.
     
    Until 1947, Australia strongly restricted immigration from outside the Empire/Commonwealth.

    *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Plagis

    , @anonymous
    Modern Greeks are too heavily admixed to be considered as Greek anymore. About half of Turkey is made up of ethnic Greeks who have taken to Turkic culture. You can't consider those people white.
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  146. newrouter says:
    @Tiny Duck
    You guys need to read Chris Hayes for a meaningful white perspective

    He is a smart man that doesn't do the whole herpderp muh genetics

    It says a lot that a movie triggers you snowflakes

    People of Color are the future

    GET OVER IT

    white men enslaved and raped the world

    Now it's payback time

    “Now it’s payback time”

    Do you take EBT?

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    • LOL: Jim Don Bob
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  147. @MEH 0910

    (“Hey, go where the food is!!” [/Bobcat]).
     
    I think you mean [/Kinison].

    Oops, thanks MEH. I always did confuse those two comedians.

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  148. @Obsessive Contrarian
    No. "Gannibal" was taken as a slave. He wasn't Ethiopian.

    You can look all this up yourself on a place called the Internet.

    You can look all this up yourself on a place called the Internet.

    I thought that’s what I just did.

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  149. @Doug
    > areas are subject to the selective pressures of warfare and resource scarcity for a bit, whereas we have stupidly enabled massive overpopulation and resettlement.

    This is silly. Birth control and female education have undeniable success at lowering third world birth rates. If the goal is to stop overpopulation, it can be done for a pittance. The UN and Western NGOs have gotten very very good at delivering contraception and basic female education to even the most remote and poor regions. It's simply a matter of funding these initiatives, which have largely been cutoff in the past two decades.

    Regardless of whether their IQs are lower or their time preference shorter, the people you're talking about are still human beings. Letting war and hunger ravage people, because we're too cheap and short sighted to air drop condoms is nasty and dumb.

    Even from a purely sociopathic perspective, there's no evidence that your solution would even work. Even without aid or refugees these third world countries still have access to Western technology. Modern agriculture has gotten so good that even applied haphazardly and half-correctly will still yield huge gains relative to pre-industrial harvests. War and hunger checked Africa's population in 1800, but its unlikely to do so in 2100, unless we blockade the entire continent from ever importing fertilizer or crop seeds.

    Birth control and female education are the only reliable solution to contains third world populations from busting the Malthusian seams.

    because we’re too cheap and short sighted to air drop condoms is nasty and dumb

    Air-drop all the condoms you want. At your own expense. Leave the rest of us out of it.

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  150. nebulafox says:
    @Sean
    Fear of China staging a Korean war style intervention was a major restraint on America in taking the war to North Vietnam. The Vietnamese were lauded in the 60s
    "Ho Ho Chi Minh, the NLF is gonna win!"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUlbKlE20-4

    The irony of that one is that although North Vietnam by the most part did their best to keep independent of both major Communist powers and play them off against each other, by the early 1970s, they’d decisively lean toward Moscow over Beijing. The Tet Offensive-specifically the hope that they could spark mass uprisings in the South-was by and large the pro-Chinese faction’s idea, taking from the Maoist theory of war. As the war got more conventional during the Nixon years, Soviet military tactics became far more germane.

    As Linh Dinh alluded to, you talk to two Vietnamese, you’ll get three opinions on just about everything… unless you are talking about national heroes who died fighting the Chinese many centuries ago.

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    • Replies: @Sean
    As with the communist insurrection in Malaysia, the Viet Cong were ethnically Chinese to a great extent. In Malaysia the British simply expelled the ethnic Chinese population, much to the delight of the Malays. The Phoenix program might have been war-winning effective if it had went after anyone of Chinese ancestry irrespective of political views.
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  151. nebulafox says:
    @Jefferson
    "Outside of Africa, the world as a whole has done a pretty good job of cutting down on birth rates."

    One day I can see Africa surpassing Asia in population, maybe even during my lifetime because I'm still quite young and am nowhere close yet to qualify for AARP.

    Oh, that’s probably a foregone conclusion at this point. Nigeria alone is going to surpass the US by 2050.

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  152. @Nigerian Nationalist
    They are, I think, one of the larger ethnic groups but judging from their recent protests, a faction feels relegated politically.

    Do they feel any sense of kinship with the Amhara? I was a bit surprised to learn that Ustinov’s Ethiopian ancestry was Oromo-ese, because I had always thought that the royal family of Ethiopia was Amharic.

    Ethiopia baffles me. It’s the only African country I would love to visit.

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    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    On that point, my ignorance equals yours. My knowledge isn't that in-depth. You should visit and take in other African countries as well, might find that we're not as painted here.
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  153. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    In 1896, Walker, the President of MIT, wrote in the Atlantic of the then current immigration wave of E. European Jews, Southern Italians, etc.:

    The entrance into our political, social, and industrial life of such vast masses of peasantry, degraded below our utmost conceptions, is a matter which no intelligent patriot can look upon without the gravest apprehension and alarm. These people have no history behind them which is of a nature to give encouragement. They have none of the inherited instincts and tendencies which made it comparatively easy to deal with the immigration of the olden time. They are beaten men from beaten races; representing the worst failures in the struggle for existence. Centuries are against them, as centuries were on the side of those who formerly came to us. They have none of the ideas and aptitudes which fit men to take up readily and easily the problem of self-care and self-government, such as belong to those who are descended from the tribes that met under the oak-trees of old Germany to make laws and choose chieftains.
     
    The President of MIT today is a Jew from Venezuela who spoke Yiddish to his parents growing up. Less than 40 years after Walker wrote, the Germans took up self-government with a vengeance.

    So you have to watch who you are calling a loser. That being said, blacks have been here for over 300 years and don't seem to be in danger of breaking out and showing their true genius any time soon.

    The President of MIT today is a Jew from Venezuela who spoke Yiddish to his parents

    That’s the official auto-hagiography concocted to hide the prosaic but less romantic truth: like most reasonably educated European Jews, the family almost certainly spoke German. The Yiddish vernacular would be eschewed except for comic effect and a few colorful phrases.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    1. Reif's official biography says that he spoke Yiddish at home. http://news.mit.edu/2012/rafael-reif-elected-president-0516 but you seem to know better.

    2. Yiddish was the main language of Polish Jews. I know this personally - my parents and all my relatives all spoke Yiddish. None of them spoke German (except whatever they learned in the concentration camps). They spoke it morning, noon and night and it was not just reserved for jokes or colorful phrases. The Ultra-Orthodox still speak it. A small educated elite might have known German but Yiddish was the language of the street. 85% of those who died in the Holocaust were Yiddish speakers . https://www.orinst.ox.ac.uk/yiddish

    Most of those would have spoken at least 1 other language but unless they were German Jews (including Bohemian Jews like Kafka) or highly educated, the 2nd (or 3rd, etc. - most could also at least read enough Hebrew to pray) language would not have been German - it would have been the local language - Polish or Ukrainian or Russian or Romanian or Hungarian, but not many would have spoken German. I have no idea where you got that notion but it is false.

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  154. syonredux says:
    @Nigerian Nationalist
    The Greeks were not White--they are Indo-European, but that'd create the problem, for you, of including people you don't consider white.

    Presumably is as stupid as the presumably real nation of Wakanda.

    The Greeks were not White–they are Indo-European,

    MMM, that must mean that every European who who isn’t Basque or Finnish isn’t White…..

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  155. syonredux says:
    @Jay Ritchie
    IIRC Greeks were not considered white under Rhodesian law. I've also read that they were restricted from immigration to Australia.

    NN Taleb writes about his distaste of northern Europeans claiming some intellectual descent from Greeks (and other Mediterraneans including Romans) - he had a big spat with Mary Beard recently on this subject.

    IIRC Greeks were not considered white under Rhodesian law.

    Dunno. A top Rhodesian pilot during WW2 was Greek*.Do you have any links for that one?

    I’ve also read that they were restricted from immigration to Australia.

    Until 1947, Australia strongly restricted immigration from outside the Empire/Commonwealth.

    *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Plagis

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    • Replies: @PiltdownMan


    IIRC Greeks were not considered white under Rhodesian law.
     


    Dunno. A top Rhodesian pilot during WW2 was Greek*.Do you have any links for that one?
     
    America has seen at least one case of a Greek guy, Ioannis Alexandres Veliotes, better known as Johnny Otis, self-identifying as black.

    Otis went so far as to issue statements during the Los Angeles riots, IIRC, speaking of "we in the African-American community...". His little screed is online, somewhere.

    https://youtu.be/qOrQTh_Cq7U
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  156. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jay Ritchie
    IIRC Greeks were not considered white under Rhodesian law. I've also read that they were restricted from immigration to Australia.

    NN Taleb writes about his distaste of northern Europeans claiming some intellectual descent from Greeks (and other Mediterraneans including Romans) - he had a big spat with Mary Beard recently on this subject.

    Modern Greeks are too heavily admixed to be considered as Greek anymore. About half of Turkey is made up of ethnic Greeks who have taken to Turkic culture. You can’t consider those people white.

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  157. @charlie
    Wakanda, and it magic minerals, sounds a great deal like "Golcanda" to my ear.

    Golcanda was the only large scale source of diamonds, and more importantly extremely high quality iron ore for most of human history. Damascus steel is just Golcandoan ore.

    It is just outside of Hyderbad, India.

    Hyberbad says it is a high tech paradise now, maybe so, I'd vote for Bangalore over it.

    Hyderbad did have the fabulously wealthy Nizam back in the day, Bangalore had the only decent beer in India.

    Er, Golconda. Hyderabad.

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  158. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Bit out of date mate, Ethiopia's dominant grouping are the Tigrayans these days. Looking forward to seeing the theory update.

    If by dominant, you mean most populous, no.

    I checked to see if anything had changed significantly. Nothing has. There are about 6 million Tigrayans and 19 million Amharas.

    It’s true the Tigrayans have been kicking up a fuss about being neglected and wanting to go their own way, and have been for a long time, as they are the furthest removed, geographically, from the center of power in Addis Ababa, and so they do “dominate” national politics, in that sense.

    In terms of the demography, the Oromo speakers, with their numerous sub-ethnicities, are the most populous, followed by the Amhara, who are a less differentiated group.

    How’s life in Lagos?

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  159. @nebulafox
    Outside of Africa, the world as a whole has done a pretty good job of cutting down on birth rates. You have your outliers here and there-Pakistan, Philippines (Duterte's open hostility to the Catholic Church stems not least from this issue), etc-but Brazil, India, Mexico, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Iran are all down to two kids per woman. These are countries that would have been at 6 not eons ago. China, South Korea, too, were at 6 kids per woman in the 1950s, and they've gone below replacement rate. Even the likes of Saudi Arabia is down to three children per woman. Etc, etc. So, not to go all Dr. Pangloss, but most of humanity has gotten their act together on this issue, even conservative Muslim cultures. Places like South Asia are still going to experience a "demographic wave", as is the norm for countries at their stage of development, but they've at least capped the peak, and now that they've stopped the proverbial bleeding, they can prepare for that wave.

    That Trump has listened to the arguments of the old Dubya crowd on this issue is highly irresponsible, needless to say. Condoms, abortions, female education, latter marriage, financial incentives for sterilization, the fear of punishment, economic or social, the simple realization that you can afford to do more with a few kids-whatever works to get people to practice family planning. The tools matter less than the result, which would massively improve the lives of both Africans and Westerners. That said, it isn't purely the West's fault here. It isn't just a matter of funding these kinds of programs from the outside-you also have to get the local governments to embrace it and carry it out. African governments that are willing to do so and are capable of carrying out the necessary policy measures (in Lee Kwan Yew-esque authoritarian fashion if necessary, as... will probably be the case more times than the Wilsonians in the State Department want to admit) are doing so: Paul Kagame's Rwanda serves as one particular example.

    One that cannot, or worse yet, actively do not want to, on the other hand...

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/25/africa/africa-population-growth-un/index.html

    http://www.dw.com/en/africa-population-growth-key-at-au-summit/a-39505136

    So, not to go all Dr. Pangloss, but most of humanity has gotten their act together on this issue, even conservative Muslim cultures.

    The most populous Muslim societies, India, Indonesia, and Bangladesh have. Pakistan hasn’t.

    The societies to watch are the oil rich Gulf States and the currently less populous Muslim countries like Afghanistan. Saudi Arabia has gone from 5 million to 30+ million since the first oil price boom in the early 1970s. Afghanistan has seen a similar change.

    Given that Pakistan’s population (then West Pakistan) was 33 million in 1947 and is now 207 million, it is important to watch the demographics of these countries closely for the foreseeable future.

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    • Replies: @nebulafox
    One of the aforementioned non-African outliers, and unfortunately, the most prominent and dangerous of the lot is Pakistan... it is not going to be pretty there, to say the least. That the burgeoning populace will be competing with the residents of Delhi for water access doesn't bode well. Afghanistan is trouble, too. That said, Saudi Arabia is at 2.7 or so kids per woman: higher than the norm for a developed country (much higher than nearby Iran), but much better than you'd expect for a nation like that or what it once was.

    The point is: it *can* be done in these nations. In Thailand, Indonesia, Brazil, and South Korea in the 1960s, it was not uncommon for a woman to have six kids. Within the course of a few decades, that had drastically changed. Bangladesh is about as culturally conservative, backward (atheist bloggers get hacked to death there), and trouble-laden as it gets: and yet it too has managed to cut down from 6 to 2. So, the question is the will to do it, whether the issue it is external funding and pressure, or internal implementation, or, as I believe, a combination of both. And this is important: it is integrally related to future migration patterns to the West. It's not worth appeasing a bunch of religious wackos who, pray tell, used to be politically relevant, to forgo this, and we need to tie this in with aid money if necessary to force countries to do this. The Earth can't support 8-9 billion people long-term, at least not pleasantly, if they want to all have good living standards.

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  160. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @John Derbyshire
    Steve: You omitted the best bit in Waugh's Ethiopia diary. From memory: "Arrived Addis Friday. Dinner with the British mission. Asked me to beat him."

    This must have been from an earlier trip than the one described in Waugh In Abyssinia.

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  161. @Obsessive Contrarian
    Like I said, I know nothing about Ethiopia, but when I was an adventurous traveling youth, I met people who were far more adventurous than I, who had traveled in the hinterlands of Aethopia, which in the 80s was very hinterlandy indeed.

    They said that it was not uncommon to find an aging Italian man who had stayed behind after the Italian wars there. They married local lasses and always ran a bakery. So you'd find a place in the middle of nowhere, Ethiopia, that sold decent pasta and Italian bread.

    The Italian genes account for a tiny fraction of the startlingly European looks of some Ethiops. The majority derive from a huge influx of West Asian genes about 40 generations ago.

    Like I said, I know nothing about Ethiopia, but when I was an adventurous traveling youth, I met people who were far more adventurous than I, who had traveled in the hinterlands of Aethopia, which in the 80s was very hinterlandy indeed.

    They said that it was not uncommon to find an aging Italian man who had stayed behind after the Italian wars there. They married local lasses and always ran a bakery. So you’d find a place in the middle of nowhere, Ethiopia, that sold decent pasta and Italian bread.

    I can confirm that, having been there, and been out to the hinterlands as a kid with my family, in 1964.

    Villa Verde was one such restaurant in the middle of nowhere and I remember that their lasagna was really good. For some weird, odd reason, my childhood memories of Ethiopia are near photographic.

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    • Replies: @Obsessive Contrarian
    @Piltdown,

    Do you remember where Villa Verde was? Was the area verde, or that dun color that the highlands of Ethiopia always seems to look like in photos.

    I imagine that your childhood memories of Ethiopia are so vivid is because the place was just gobsmackingly spectacular, and impressions formed in childhood are deeply imprinted. The two obviously formed an indelible impression.

    Thank you.
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  162. Jack D says:
    @Jefferson
    "I don’t have a lot of hope that Mexicans are going to be the new Jews or even the new Southern Italians (although the latter is a little closer)"

    Mexicans and Italians are not comparible at all. Average per capita household income Italians earn significantly more than Mexicans and Italians are less likely to be on welfare than Mexicans.

    I’m comparing the average Sicilian immigrant of 1898 with the average Mexican immigrant of 2018 – there’s some difference but some similarity – Catholic, working in the building trades such as masonry, etc.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    I’m comparing the average Sicilian immigrant of 1898 with the average Mexican immigrant of 2018 – there’s some difference but some similarity – Catholic, working in the building trades such as masonry, etc.
     
    Even Barone has given up on the Mexican-as-Southern-Italian-redux theory.
    , @Jefferson
    We Italians in The U.S are way more comparalible to Russians and Asians than to Mexicans. All 3 groups in The U.S are way more middle class on average than under class despite all 3 groups having an organized crime element (Cosa Nostra, Triads, Yakuza, Russian Mafia). Despite this tie to organized crime, we are not lumped in with the Brown (Mexican) and Black under classes.We Italians in The U.S are way more comparalible to Russians and Asians than to Mexicans. All 3 groups in The U.S are way more middle class on average than under class despite all 3 groups having an organized crime element (Cosa Nostra, Triads, Yakuza, Russian Mafia). Despite this tie to organized crime, we are not lumped in with the Brown (Mexican) and Black under classes.
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  163. syonredux says:
    @Jack D
    I'm comparing the average Sicilian immigrant of 1898 with the average Mexican immigrant of 2018 - there's some difference but some similarity - Catholic, working in the building trades such as masonry, etc.

    I’m comparing the average Sicilian immigrant of 1898 with the average Mexican immigrant of 2018 – there’s some difference but some similarity – Catholic, working in the building trades such as masonry, etc.

    Even Barone has given up on the Mexican-as-Southern-Italian-redux theory.

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  164. Jefferson says:

    “Even Barone has given up on the Mexican-as-Southern-Italian-redux theory.”

    Barone has also given up on the theory that America’s future is Nonblack vs African American rather than Nonwhite vs White. He has given up on the theory that today’s Non African American immigrant groups will all become tomorrow’s Whites.

    I am not getting the feeling that DACA Dreamers for example racially identify more with Whites than they do with “oppressed” People Of Color like African Americans.

    I doubt that a single DACA Dreamer believes they have White privilege and are not oppressed People Of Color.

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  165. @syonredux

    IIRC Greeks were not considered white under Rhodesian law.
     
    Dunno. A top Rhodesian pilot during WW2 was Greek*.Do you have any links for that one?

    I’ve also read that they were restricted from immigration to Australia.
     
    Until 1947, Australia strongly restricted immigration from outside the Empire/Commonwealth.

    *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Plagis

    IIRC Greeks were not considered white under Rhodesian law.

    Dunno. A top Rhodesian pilot during WW2 was Greek*.Do you have any links for that one?

    America has seen at least one case of a Greek guy, Ioannis Alexandres Veliotes, better known as Johnny Otis, self-identifying as black.

    Otis went so far as to issue statements during the Los Angeles riots, IIRC, speaking of “we in the African-American community…”. His little screed is online, somewhere.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    America has seen at least one case of a Greek guy, Ioannis Alexandres Veliotes, better known as Johnny Otis, self-identifying as black.

    Otis went so far as to issue statements during the Los Angeles riots, IIRC, speaking of “we in the African-American community…”. His little screed is online, somewhere.
     
    What does that have to do with claims that Greeks were not classified as White under Rhodesian law?
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  166. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous

    The President of MIT today is a Jew from Venezuela who spoke Yiddish to his parents
     
    That's the official auto-hagiography concocted to hide the prosaic but less romantic truth: like most reasonably educated European Jews, the family almost certainly spoke German. The Yiddish vernacular would be eschewed except for comic effect and a few colorful phrases.

    1. Reif’s official biography says that he spoke Yiddish at home. http://news.mit.edu/2012/rafael-reif-elected-president-0516 but you seem to know better.

    2. Yiddish was the main language of Polish Jews. I know this personally – my parents and all my relatives all spoke Yiddish. None of them spoke German (except whatever they learned in the concentration camps). They spoke it morning, noon and night and it was not just reserved for jokes or colorful phrases. The Ultra-Orthodox still speak it. A small educated elite might have known German but Yiddish was the language of the street. 85% of those who died in the Holocaust were Yiddish speakers . https://www.orinst.ox.ac.uk/yiddish

    Most of those would have spoken at least 1 other language but unless they were German Jews (including Bohemian Jews like Kafka) or highly educated, the 2nd (or 3rd, etc. – most could also at least read enough Hebrew to pray) language would not have been German – it would have been the local language – Polish or Ukrainian or Russian or Romanian or Hungarian, but not many would have spoken German. I have no idea where you got that notion but it is false.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    1. Reif’s official biography says that he spoke Yiddish at home. http://news.mit.edu/2012/rafael-reif-elected-president-0516 but you seem to know better.

     

    I described this conceit as auto-hagiography.

    It is understandable that post-Holocaust Jewish emigrants in Venezuela prefer not to identify as German speakers or even to admit that they previously spoke German. It is extremely difficult nowadays to understand that German was the principal prestige language throughout much of eastern Europe prior to WW I.


    2. Yiddish was the main language of Polish Jews. I know this personally – my parents and all my relatives all spoke Yiddish. None of them spoke German (except whatever they learned in the concentration camps). They spoke it morning, noon and night and it was not just reserved for jokes or colorful phrases. The Ultra-Orthodox still speak it. A small educated elite might have known German but Yiddish was the language of the street. 85% of those who died in the Holocaust were Yiddish speakers . https://www.orinst.ox.ac.uk/yiddish

     

    Apples and oranges - my comment was about "reasonably educated" people, i.e. those who regularly read books. Yes, there was some Yiddish literature, but anyone who is familiar with it even in outline realizes that Yiddish literature was never more than a marginal phenomenon. It is relatively easy for Yiddish speakers to read German, and many did. Look up Rosa Luxemburg.

    The kind of people whose son becomes an "academic administrator" at Harvard do not speak low-status languages.


    Most of those would have spoken at least 1 other language but unless they were German Jews (including Bohemian Jews like Kafka) or highly educated, the 2nd (or 3rd, etc. – most could also at least read enough Hebrew to pray) language would not have been German – it would have been the local language – Polish or Ukrainian or Russian or Romanian or Hungarian, but not many would have spoken German. I have no idea where you got that notion but it is false.

     

    German was the main prestige language throughout the Austrian-Hungarian "double monarchy" and its domains. In Russia (including current Poland), Russian and Polish were the principal local languages spoken by Jews, but there was also a significant population of former Yiddish speakers who adopted German. Dutch, Danish, Yiddish and German have been distinct languages for over 1,000 years but maintained mutual communications and exchanges over the centuries.
    , @Anonymous
    Genuine question: in what language did each of your parents/grandparents first learn to read?

    In what language did they first read a whole book?
    , @Obsessive Contrarian
    "Yiddish was the main language of Polish Jews."

    I'm not going to google this, because I don't care to win internet arguments, but I've read that up until WWI, that was true of older Polish Jews, but not younger.

    At the threshold of WWII, the majority of Polish Jews spoke Polish as their first language. Perhaps they knew Yiddish to communicate with Bubbe & Zeide, but they spoke and wrote in Polish. They were truly becoming assimilated, and it is an interesting if futile thought experiment to wonder what would have happened if they hadn't been slaughtered en masse.

    The German Jews wouldn't have spoken Yiddish for all the tea in China*. They thought it was "zhargon."

    *Since I'm in a safe space here, I can write that.

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  167. syonredux says:
    @PiltdownMan


    IIRC Greeks were not considered white under Rhodesian law.
     


    Dunno. A top Rhodesian pilot during WW2 was Greek*.Do you have any links for that one?
     
    America has seen at least one case of a Greek guy, Ioannis Alexandres Veliotes, better known as Johnny Otis, self-identifying as black.

    Otis went so far as to issue statements during the Los Angeles riots, IIRC, speaking of "we in the African-American community...". His little screed is online, somewhere.

    https://youtu.be/qOrQTh_Cq7U

    America has seen at least one case of a Greek guy, Ioannis Alexandres Veliotes, better known as Johnny Otis, self-identifying as black.

    Otis went so far as to issue statements during the Los Angeles riots, IIRC, speaking of “we in the African-American community…”. His little screed is online, somewhere.

    What does that have to do with claims that Greeks were not classified as White under Rhodesian law?

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    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    I introduced it as an amusing bit of somewhat OT trivia rather than as a direct response to your post, which I have no issue with. If it imposes on Mr. Sailer's hospitality at his blog here I'm happy to ask him to delete it.
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  168. Jack D says:
    @RadicalCenter
    My ancestors in Italy were far more advanced, civilizationally, than the late ignorant Mr. Walker’s ancestors were at the same time, for many centuries. So yes, be careful about calling Italians losers of history.

    By contrast, with most African nations and tribes, we are not in much danger in underestimating their civilizational achievements and aptitude.

    The paisanos of S. Italy and Sicily were a long way from the glory of Rome (and the shtetl Jews of E. Europe were a long way from King David). By they time the showed up on American shores they had fallen pretty far and were lacking in education and smelled like garlic, so Walker could be forgiven for missing their potential. But of course there was nothing really wrong with them, they had just been oppressed by bad elites for many centuries. Thank God that America doesn’t have bad elites!

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  169. Jack D says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    When you find an image you want to copy, put your mouse over the image, then right click. One of the menu options will be Copy Image Location. Select that and then do a Paste (Ctrl-v on Windows) into the Unz comment. For Youtube videos, just copy the Url of the page.

    Now somebody tell me how to do strike through.

    Look at what is inserted when you press the blockquote button to

    blockquote something

    and instead of blockquote use the word strike to strike something

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Thanks
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  170. res says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    When you find an image you want to copy, put your mouse over the image, then right click. One of the menu options will be Copy Image Location. Select that and then do a Paste (Ctrl-v on Windows) into the Unz comment. For Youtube videos, just copy the Url of the page.

    Now somebody tell me how to do strike through.

    When you find an image you want to copy, put your mouse over the image, then right click. One of the menu options will be Copy Image Location. Select that and then do a Paste (Ctrl-v on Windows) into the Unz comment. For Youtube videos, just copy the Url of the page.

    Now somebody tell me how to do strike through.

    Also make sure the path is just an image and ends in something like .jpg or .png

    For strikethrough use strike, s, or del tags: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikethrough#HTML

    strike

    s

    del

    P.S. s worked in preview, but not in final version so just use strike or del.

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  171. @syonredux

    America has seen at least one case of a Greek guy, Ioannis Alexandres Veliotes, better known as Johnny Otis, self-identifying as black.

    Otis went so far as to issue statements during the Los Angeles riots, IIRC, speaking of “we in the African-American community…”. His little screed is online, somewhere.
     
    What does that have to do with claims that Greeks were not classified as White under Rhodesian law?

    I introduced it as an amusing bit of somewhat OT trivia rather than as a direct response to your post, which I have no issue with. If it imposes on Mr. Sailer’s hospitality at his blog here I’m happy to ask him to delete it.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    I introduced it as an amusing bit of somewhat OT trivia rather than as a direct response to your post, which I have no issue with. If it imposes on Mr. Sailer’s hospitality at his blog here I’m happy to ask him to delete it.
     
    I have no problem with the post. It is an interesting tidbit.
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  172. utu says:
    @Corvinus
    "When you are being entertained you rational critical judgment guards are down then is the greatest opening to your mind to plant memes and ideas. The values and ideas do not come from intentional commercials, propaganda lies by news outlets and pedagogic lectures but from the pop culture."

    Except people generally employ the use of reason to discern fantasy from reality. So even though they may get caught up in the moment when watching something, viewers for the most part process what they see. Furthermore, this "planting of memes and ideas" perhaps is not nefarious in nature, but it simply represents what is deemed normal or acceptable in a society.

    "Most of your tastes, and distastes, likes and dislikes, inclinations and prejudices come from watching soaps and movies. Thus the Sailerian or SJW lens is appropriate here."

    You are giving too little credit to people. They have preferences. Those things come from a number of different avenues--from home to school to popular culture. Whether one factor is more important than another factor is up for fierce debate.

    Another sleepwalker. Sorry that I bothered.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Another sleepwalker. Sorry that I bothered."

    Actually I'm woke. Listen, you seem to be of the mindset that most people are being duped, that when they listen to music or watch television/film, they are other than able to process what they watch.

    What makes YOU different in this regard? What skillset do you have compared to others so as you are not easily swayed by the subtle (or not so subtle) messages of popular culture?
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  173. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    1. Reif's official biography says that he spoke Yiddish at home. http://news.mit.edu/2012/rafael-reif-elected-president-0516 but you seem to know better.

    2. Yiddish was the main language of Polish Jews. I know this personally - my parents and all my relatives all spoke Yiddish. None of them spoke German (except whatever they learned in the concentration camps). They spoke it morning, noon and night and it was not just reserved for jokes or colorful phrases. The Ultra-Orthodox still speak it. A small educated elite might have known German but Yiddish was the language of the street. 85% of those who died in the Holocaust were Yiddish speakers . https://www.orinst.ox.ac.uk/yiddish

    Most of those would have spoken at least 1 other language but unless they were German Jews (including Bohemian Jews like Kafka) or highly educated, the 2nd (or 3rd, etc. - most could also at least read enough Hebrew to pray) language would not have been German - it would have been the local language - Polish or Ukrainian or Russian or Romanian or Hungarian, but not many would have spoken German. I have no idea where you got that notion but it is false.

    1. Reif’s official biography says that he spoke Yiddish at home. http://news.mit.edu/2012/rafael-reif-elected-president-0516 but you seem to know better.

    I described this conceit as auto-hagiography.

    It is understandable that post-Holocaust Jewish emigrants in Venezuela prefer not to identify as German speakers or even to admit that they previously spoke German. It is extremely difficult nowadays to understand that German was the principal prestige language throughout much of eastern Europe prior to WW I.

    2. Yiddish was the main language of Polish Jews. I know this personally – my parents and all my relatives all spoke Yiddish. None of them spoke German (except whatever they learned in the concentration camps). They spoke it morning, noon and night and it was not just reserved for jokes or colorful phrases. The Ultra-Orthodox still speak it. A small educated elite might have known German but Yiddish was the language of the street. 85% of those who died in the Holocaust were Yiddish speakers . https://www.orinst.ox.ac.uk/yiddish

    Apples and oranges – my comment was about “reasonably educated” people, i.e. those who regularly read books. Yes, there was some Yiddish literature, but anyone who is familiar with it even in outline realizes that Yiddish literature was never more than a marginal phenomenon. It is relatively easy for Yiddish speakers to read German, and many did. Look up Rosa Luxemburg.

    The kind of people whose son becomes an “academic administrator” at Harvard do not speak low-status languages.

    Most of those would have spoken at least 1 other language but unless they were German Jews (including Bohemian Jews like Kafka) or highly educated, the 2nd (or 3rd, etc. – most could also at least read enough Hebrew to pray) language would not have been German – it would have been the local language – Polish or Ukrainian or Russian or Romanian or Hungarian, but not many would have spoken German. I have no idea where you got that notion but it is false.

    German was the main prestige language throughout the Austrian-Hungarian “double monarchy” and its domains. In Russia (including current Poland), Russian and Polish were the principal local languages spoken by Jews, but there was also a significant population of former Yiddish speakers who adopted German. Dutch, Danish, Yiddish and German have been distinct languages for over 1,000 years but maintained mutual communications and exchanges over the centuries.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Pardon my French, but you don't know what the f)ck you are talking about. I grew up in this environment. Most of the Jews of E. Europe were NOT reasonably educated in Western languages. Many were not educated at all except in Yiddish/Hebrew. There was a small intelligentsia in the big cities that had a Western education but the masses in the shtetls had primary school educations at best. Even if they knew other languages, Yiddish was their primary language - the one that they spoke at home. There were older people who spoke ONLY Yiddish and spoke the local language poorly if at all.

    Your presumptions about the "kind of people" whose sons grow up to be academic administrators are all wrong. I am that kind of people (2 Ivy degrees) and my father was (and I am not embarrassed to say this) illiterate in the Roman alphabet (though he was an avid reader of the Yiddish newspaper). As a child, his father put him and his brothers to work as soon as they were able so that the family would not starve and could not spare him for Polish school, let alone learning "prestige" languages (of course he sent him to cheder (Hebrew school) because every Jew needed to know how to pray. Yiddish was written in the Hebrew alphabet so if you could read Hebrew you could read Yiddish). Modern Americans can't really conceive of that kind of poverty (nor does it reconcile with people's images of "rich Jews") - you would have to go to the slums of Bombay to understand it.

    Yiddish had a large and thriving literature. The Yiddish Book Center on the campus of Hampshire College has a large library filled with nothing but Yiddish books.

    https://www.yiddishbookcenter.org/

    As for Yiddish speakers reading German, first of all you have to be able to read the Roman alphabet, which was not a given. 2nd, while Yiddish is a Germanic language, it is NOT German. The two are somewhat mutually intelligible but not totally. Assuming you could read the alphabet, it would roughly the same as say a Dutch speaker or a Dane reading German - certain words you would get and certain words you don't. About 20% of Yiddish is Hebrew rather than German. Even for words that are Germanic, you have the kind of differences that are found between American and British English (hood vs bonnet). And you can read it better than you can speak it because not only is the vocabulary different but so is the grammar.
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  174. grapesoda says:

    Elon Musk is African. So it’s not that far-fetched that African-descended people could have an extremely technologically advanced society.

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    • Replies: @Obsessive Contrarian
    I can't argue with that logic.

    /eyewink/
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  175. @Hapalong Cassidy
    It’s interesting that Ethiopia is the only sub-Saharan African country to have a noteworthy cuisine, or at least the only one to have ethnic restaurants. While it’s tasty, I wonder how much of it has been catered to American tastes.

    And for what it’s worth, Ethiopian women are the most attractive black women on the planet.

    Thing is, Ethiopians and Somalians look very different from other Sub-Saharan Africans. Enough so that I almost consider them a separate race.

    And speaking of which, I’ve noticed Ethiopian immigrants don’t seem to anywhere near the troublemakers that Somalis are. Probably for two reasons; 1. We were more selective with the Ethiopians, never bringing them in as refugees, and 2. The dysgenic effects of Islam (i.e. Somalis are to Ethiopians as Pakistanis are to Indians).

    Somali cuisine is better than Ethiopian, as it has more influence from Arab and Indian cuisines. They do have ethnic restaurants in the US, but not as many as Ethiopians.

    The Ethiopian diaspora has been more successful in the US than the Somali diaspora, though, which is because the Ethiopians are Christians.

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  176. syonredux says:
    @PiltdownMan
    I introduced it as an amusing bit of somewhat OT trivia rather than as a direct response to your post, which I have no issue with. If it imposes on Mr. Sailer's hospitality at his blog here I'm happy to ask him to delete it.

    I introduced it as an amusing bit of somewhat OT trivia rather than as a direct response to your post, which I have no issue with. If it imposes on Mr. Sailer’s hospitality at his blog here I’m happy to ask him to delete it.

    I have no problem with the post. It is an interesting tidbit.

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  177. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    1. Reif's official biography says that he spoke Yiddish at home. http://news.mit.edu/2012/rafael-reif-elected-president-0516 but you seem to know better.

    2. Yiddish was the main language of Polish Jews. I know this personally - my parents and all my relatives all spoke Yiddish. None of them spoke German (except whatever they learned in the concentration camps). They spoke it morning, noon and night and it was not just reserved for jokes or colorful phrases. The Ultra-Orthodox still speak it. A small educated elite might have known German but Yiddish was the language of the street. 85% of those who died in the Holocaust were Yiddish speakers . https://www.orinst.ox.ac.uk/yiddish

    Most of those would have spoken at least 1 other language but unless they were German Jews (including Bohemian Jews like Kafka) or highly educated, the 2nd (or 3rd, etc. - most could also at least read enough Hebrew to pray) language would not have been German - it would have been the local language - Polish or Ukrainian or Russian or Romanian or Hungarian, but not many would have spoken German. I have no idea where you got that notion but it is false.

    Genuine question: in what language did each of your parents/grandparents first learn to read?

    In what language did they first read a whole book?

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Answer: Yiddish. In my father's case, first and only. I never knew either of my parents to read a book in any language though my father was a devoted reader of the Yiddish newspaper (and consumer of TV news). He was especially not interested in any work of fiction, which he called "lies". I did not know my paternal grandparents (you know who took care of that) but I don't expect they were book readers either.

    My maternal grandfather had an unusual education in Galicia province of the Austro-Hungarian Empire before WWI - Baron de Hirsch, a Jewish philanthropist (in Austria/Hungary Jews could be elevated to the nobility) funded a network of secular Jewish primary schools (I don't think Galicia had free public schools at least in the shtetls - it was the poorest province in the Empire). In those schools, Yiddish was the language of instruction (again probably the only language that the kids spoke fluently) but in the de Hirsch schools it was taught using the Roman alphabet. (I still have letters he wrote to my mother). But it wasn't German, it was Yiddish (admittedly a somewhat Germanized Yiddish). I think the goal of these schools was to gradually switch the kids over to standard German and if WWI hadn't happened it probably would have worked eventually (in Vienna this process would have been complete and German/Austrian Jews spoke only German and regarded Yiddish as an inferior dialect that they pretended not to know even though they did) but after WWI, Galicia was part of Poland and my mother attended a public school where she learned Polish AND Ukrainian (the local peasantry was Ukrainian).
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  178. FPD72 says:
    @Doug
    > Who is cutting off the funding?

    A combination of Republicans, who don't want to touch the reproductive health issues for fear of inflaming the evangelicals, and liberals, who want to avoid any appearance of racism. Trump dissapointingly completely cut off US funding of UNFPA. On this, Trump is dumb as hell. Every $0.05 the US saves on a condom in South Sudan is a potential $1 million in pubic services to a future unemployable refugee.

    Another unsupported statement to the effect that evangelicals are opposed to contraception. Please, name mainstream evangelical leaders who are opposed to all forms of contraception.

    Most evangelicals share with Catholics opposition to abortion. That doesn’t mean agreement on contraception. There is discussion and debate about some forms of contraception that are thought to involve abortifacients, but none among mainstream leaders about condoms, diaphragms, spermicides, etc.

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  179. FPD72 says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    I suggest a .45, a 12 gauge pump shotgun, and an AR-15.

    I second the recommendation, but remember that after using them you will be judged by a jury of your browner, dumber peers.

    Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

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    • Replies: @BB753
    If you kill a Mexican or a Black, you'll end up dead in prison anyway. What would have been Zimmerman's fate in prison, had he been convicted of the murder amd martyr of Saint Trayvon?
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    The expression was made for rule-of-law America, not a society of brown-and-dumber. I guess it would be "About the same to be judged by 12 morons, then carried by 6 of 'em rather than carried by 6." That's the newer anarcho-tyranny version of this saying.
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  180. Merema says:

    Yes, if any country in Africa qualifies to be Wakanda, it would be Ethiopia. Ethiopia truly is a unique country with a culture and history that is so different it is almost weird.

    Ethiopians a people that are black but with middle eastern features, but can also look indian. The place is filled with semitic and hamitic languages and an alphabet, fidel, that has nothing in common with any other alphabet except maybe the Armenian alphabet!

    The food is unique, and based on a grain, teff, only used in Ethiopia. No rice for Ethiopians.
    The calendar is different and people count the time differently, with the day in the morning at 1:00 so that 7:00 am is really 1:00 am.

    The Christian religion is different too, with each church a replica of a jewish temple, each with a replica of the ark of covenant.

    What is not so apparent about Ethiopia is that is is an extremely organized society to the village level with a disciplined culture, and the result is a large population-much like China or India. But this has also resulted in extreme poverty because as luck has it Ethiopia has minimal natural resources.

    The poverty is extreme, but the government is determined to transfer the country into a middle income country with the help of the Chinese who are building industrials parks through out the country. Alas, there is also a lot of ethnic conflict that threatens the state so the whole thing could go south. And that is really too bad, because this is a country in which in a matter of about 10 years, the infant mortality was cut in half, 40% of women practice birth control (!), primary school coverage became 100%, electricity coverage to 30% etc etc.

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  181. Corvinus says:
    @utu
    Another sleepwalker. Sorry that I bothered.

    “Another sleepwalker. Sorry that I bothered.”

    Actually I’m woke. Listen, you seem to be of the mindset that most people are being duped, that when they listen to music or watch television/film, they are other than able to process what they watch.

    What makes YOU different in this regard? What skillset do you have compared to others so as you are not easily swayed by the subtle (or not so subtle) messages of popular culture?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon

    Actually I’m woke.
     
    The truest statement you've ever made...
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  182. BB753 says:
    @FPD72
    Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

    If you kill a Mexican or a Black, you’ll end up dead in prison anyway. What would have been Zimmerman’s fate in prison, had he been convicted of the murder amd martyr of Saint Trayvon?

    Read More
    • Replies: @FPD72
    Funny that you cite Zimmerman to support your contention. How’s he doing in prison right now? Oh, wait, that’s right, he wasn’t convicted. He’s still walking around free.

    If the choice is between being at the whims of thugs or using deadly force to defend myself and my loved ones, the thugs lose every time.

    I went mano y mano with burglars when I was a young man. Now that I’m in my late sixties I’m not doing that again.
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  183. @3g4me
    Off Topic: Someone specified the steps for copying an image into Steve's comment threads, and I neglected to save that comment. I'm looking for it but with so many entries and comments, I'd greatly appreciate if someone would repost the instructions so this time I could copy and learn/memorize them. Many thanks in advance from the technologically semi-literate/lazy.

    About the youtube videos, to add to what Jim Don Bob replied to you – this is just from experience here: If you are using a mobile device (smart phone or tablet) the URL (the string of text that you end up pasting in, with your fingers on this type of device), the video won’t be embedded*, unless you use your keypad and delete the “m” here – “blah_blah://m.youtube.com /blah_blah” and put “www” in there. Make it “blah_blah://www.youtube.com/blah_blah”. I don’t know if this is a known bug or feature, but it’s my experience.

    Secondly, if you do any last minute editing in that 5-minute window and save that, the video will also not end up embedded*. When I screw up something that way, I will “cut” all the text (meaning it’s saved in the computer’s/tablet’s “clipboard”) press Unz’s “SAVE” button which says you’re going to lose the comment and click “OK”. You’ll wipe out your comment, but make another by just “pasting” in your stuff from before, fix it in the first edit window (NOT the one with the 5 minute timer – before that) and then SUBMIT again.

    * Being embedded means the readers can see the picture of the video ready to play, as you want. Otherwise, it will still be a link, but most people don’t want to click on something that gets them off the page here.

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  184. @FPD72
    Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

    The expression was made for rule-of-law America, not a society of brown-and-dumber. I guess it would be “About the same to be judged by 12 morons, then carried by 6 of ‘em rather than carried by 6.” That’s the newer anarcho-tyranny version of this saying.

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  185. @PiltdownMan

    Like I said, I know nothing about Ethiopia, but when I was an adventurous traveling youth, I met people who were far more adventurous than I, who had traveled in the hinterlands of Aethopia, which in the 80s was very hinterlandy indeed.

    They said that it was not uncommon to find an aging Italian man who had stayed behind after the Italian wars there. They married local lasses and always ran a bakery. So you’d find a place in the middle of nowhere, Ethiopia, that sold decent pasta and Italian bread.
     

    I can confirm that, having been there, and been out to the hinterlands as a kid with my family, in 1964.

    Villa Verde was one such restaurant in the middle of nowhere and I remember that their lasagna was really good. For some weird, odd reason, my childhood memories of Ethiopia are near photographic.

    @Piltdown,

    Do you remember where Villa Verde was? Was the area verde, or that dun color that the highlands of Ethiopia always seems to look like in photos.

    I imagine that your childhood memories of Ethiopia are so vivid is because the place was just gobsmackingly spectacular, and impressions formed in childhood are deeply imprinted. The two obviously formed an indelible impression.

    Thank you.

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    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    Do you remember where Villa Verde was? Was the area verde, or that dun color that the highlands of Ethiopia always seems to look like in photos.
     
    It was about an 45 minute drive (IIRC) out of town. Ethiopia was sparsely populated then, as Steve has noted, with less than a quarter of the population it has today. Villa Verde was the name of the restaurant, but seemed unconnected to the terrain. Addis and the environs around it were thickly forested with eucalyptus trees (as I remember my mom mentioning) , the leaves of which lent a dusty, dark green color to landscapes. I expect population growth has led to substantial deforestation. A quick google search confirms this, but here's what distant vistas from Addis Ababa generally looked like.

    https://pcwoolner.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/pa211098.jpg

    Further out, I remember the countryside being farmland on the side of gentle mountain slopes, or boulder strewn. Small hot springs were not uncommon.
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  186. @Jack D
    1. Reif's official biography says that he spoke Yiddish at home. http://news.mit.edu/2012/rafael-reif-elected-president-0516 but you seem to know better.

    2. Yiddish was the main language of Polish Jews. I know this personally - my parents and all my relatives all spoke Yiddish. None of them spoke German (except whatever they learned in the concentration camps). They spoke it morning, noon and night and it was not just reserved for jokes or colorful phrases. The Ultra-Orthodox still speak it. A small educated elite might have known German but Yiddish was the language of the street. 85% of those who died in the Holocaust were Yiddish speakers . https://www.orinst.ox.ac.uk/yiddish

    Most of those would have spoken at least 1 other language but unless they were German Jews (including Bohemian Jews like Kafka) or highly educated, the 2nd (or 3rd, etc. - most could also at least read enough Hebrew to pray) language would not have been German - it would have been the local language - Polish or Ukrainian or Russian or Romanian or Hungarian, but not many would have spoken German. I have no idea where you got that notion but it is false.

    “Yiddish was the main language of Polish Jews.”

    I’m not going to google this, because I don’t care to win internet arguments, but I’ve read that up until WWI, that was true of older Polish Jews, but not younger.

    At the threshold of WWII, the majority of Polish Jews spoke Polish as their first language. Perhaps they knew Yiddish to communicate with Bubbe & Zeide, but they spoke and wrote in Polish. They were truly becoming assimilated, and it is an interesting if futile thought experiment to wonder what would have happened if they hadn’t been slaughtered en masse.

    The German Jews wouldn’t have spoken Yiddish for all the tea in China*. They thought it was “zhargon.”

    *Since I’m in a safe space here, I can write that.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    This is hilarious because all you folks are talking about stuff where you have no frigging idea what you are talking about and it's something that I happen to know about personally and you are completely, totally wrong. This is like Gell Mann Amnesia - if this is really your level of knowledge in other areas, I shudder to think.

    I grew up in a community of E. European Jewish Holocaust survivors, who all ended up being chicken farmers in NJ. These were all people born during or after WWI. They were not ultra-Orthodox, just regular garden variety E. European Jews. With the exception of one couple who had grown up in Warsaw and who spoke Polish to each other (and stood out as a result), every single one of them spoke Yiddish morning, noon and night as their primary language. It's what they would speak to each other, to their kids, to their friends, everywhere. It was also a lingua franca because some of them were from Poland, from Romania, from Hungary, etc. but they could all speak Yiddish. Of course when they interacted with Americans they spoke (accented)English but that's not what they spoke at home. It was the language for old people, for young people, for everyone. Americans apparently have a tough time conceiving that you could grow up in a country and yet not speak the local language as your primary language but that's how it was.
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  187. @grapesoda
    Elon Musk is African. So it's not that far-fetched that African-descended people could have an extremely technologically advanced society.

    I can’t argue with that logic.

    /eyewink/

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  188. @Jack D
    Look at what is inserted when you press the blockquote button to

    blockquote something
     
    and instead of blockquote use the word strike to strike something

    Thanks

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  189. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous

    1. Reif’s official biography says that he spoke Yiddish at home. http://news.mit.edu/2012/rafael-reif-elected-president-0516 but you seem to know better.

     

    I described this conceit as auto-hagiography.

    It is understandable that post-Holocaust Jewish emigrants in Venezuela prefer not to identify as German speakers or even to admit that they previously spoke German. It is extremely difficult nowadays to understand that German was the principal prestige language throughout much of eastern Europe prior to WW I.


    2. Yiddish was the main language of Polish Jews. I know this personally – my parents and all my relatives all spoke Yiddish. None of them spoke German (except whatever they learned in the concentration camps). They spoke it morning, noon and night and it was not just reserved for jokes or colorful phrases. The Ultra-Orthodox still speak it. A small educated elite might have known German but Yiddish was the language of the street. 85% of those who died in the Holocaust were Yiddish speakers . https://www.orinst.ox.ac.uk/yiddish

     

    Apples and oranges - my comment was about "reasonably educated" people, i.e. those who regularly read books. Yes, there was some Yiddish literature, but anyone who is familiar with it even in outline realizes that Yiddish literature was never more than a marginal phenomenon. It is relatively easy for Yiddish speakers to read German, and many did. Look up Rosa Luxemburg.

    The kind of people whose son becomes an "academic administrator" at Harvard do not speak low-status languages.


    Most of those would have spoken at least 1 other language but unless they were German Jews (including Bohemian Jews like Kafka) or highly educated, the 2nd (or 3rd, etc. – most could also at least read enough Hebrew to pray) language would not have been German – it would have been the local language – Polish or Ukrainian or Russian or Romanian or Hungarian, but not many would have spoken German. I have no idea where you got that notion but it is false.

     

    German was the main prestige language throughout the Austrian-Hungarian "double monarchy" and its domains. In Russia (including current Poland), Russian and Polish were the principal local languages spoken by Jews, but there was also a significant population of former Yiddish speakers who adopted German. Dutch, Danish, Yiddish and German have been distinct languages for over 1,000 years but maintained mutual communications and exchanges over the centuries.

    Pardon my French, but you don’t know what the f)ck you are talking about. I grew up in this environment. Most of the Jews of E. Europe were NOT reasonably educated in Western languages. Many were not educated at all except in Yiddish/Hebrew. There was a small intelligentsia in the big cities that had a Western education but the masses in the shtetls had primary school educations at best. Even if they knew other languages, Yiddish was their primary language – the one that they spoke at home. There were older people who spoke ONLY Yiddish and spoke the local language poorly if at all.

    Your presumptions about the “kind of people” whose sons grow up to be academic administrators are all wrong. I am that kind of people (2 Ivy degrees) and my father was (and I am not embarrassed to say this) illiterate in the Roman alphabet (though he was an avid reader of the Yiddish newspaper). As a child, his father put him and his brothers to work as soon as they were able so that the family would not starve and could not spare him for Polish school, let alone learning “prestige” languages (of course he sent him to cheder (Hebrew school) because every Jew needed to know how to pray. Yiddish was written in the Hebrew alphabet so if you could read Hebrew you could read Yiddish). Modern Americans can’t really conceive of that kind of poverty (nor does it reconcile with people’s images of “rich Jews”) – you would have to go to the slums of Bombay to understand it.

    Yiddish had a large and thriving literature. The Yiddish Book Center on the campus of Hampshire College has a large library filled with nothing but Yiddish books.

    https://www.yiddishbookcenter.org/

    As for Yiddish speakers reading German, first of all you have to be able to read the Roman alphabet, which was not a given. 2nd, while Yiddish is a Germanic language, it is NOT German. The two are somewhat mutually intelligible but not totally. Assuming you could read the alphabet, it would roughly the same as say a Dutch speaker or a Dane reading German – certain words you would get and certain words you don’t. About 20% of Yiddish is Hebrew rather than German. Even for words that are Germanic, you have the kind of differences that are found between American and British English (hood vs bonnet). And you can read it better than you can speak it because not only is the vocabulary different but so is the grammar.

    Read More
    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
    I think the key here is the fact that many people don't understand that while Yiddish is similar to German in some ways in the spoken form, it is written in a completely different script.
    , @Anonymous
    We seem to be talking at cross purposes.

    Nobody denies that many Jews in Eastern Europe spoke Yiddish as their first language.

    My point - which is culturally quite important - is that post WW II, the (small but significant) proportion of East European Jews who had adopted (more or less standard) German has been downplayed. This is emotionally understandable, but distorts the facts and thus our understanding. Moreover, starting in the late 1800s, the use of local languages (Polish, Czech, Romanian) had started to gain much greater political and cultural force within the traditional empires. This process accelerated with the disintegration of the empires into ethnic states after WW I.

    German was naturally more of a factor in the Austrian/Hungarian domains. Sigmund Freud, Franz Kafka, Arthur Koestler, Elie Wiesel etc. grew up speaking and reading German (as well as other languages). However, even within the Russian Empire, there was a (small) Jewish middle class who cultivated German. For example, about Rosa Luxemburg (referred to earlier, grew up in the Russian Empire), Wikipedia tells us:


    The family spoke German and Polish, and Luxemburg also learned Russian.[6]
     
    Even accepting that your father "avidly read Yiddish newspapers" (which still exist but stopped being very active in the 1970s), surely as a person already literate in Yiddish (and presumably some Hebrew) he was not entirely illiterate in the "Roman alphabet" as such - presumably, he could sign his name in his passport, and fill out government documents, and recognize street signs etc.

    In a separate post, I asked you in what language your father first read an entire book (by himself - being guided through the Torah does not count).

    Yiddish literature - much to the chagrin of its writers and fans - was never more than a marginal phenomenon within Jewish culture and was frequently scoffed at by educated Jews. Its most famous exponent, Sholem Aleichem (author of "Fiddler on the Roof"), graduated from Russian grammar school and translated material from Russian. Other Yiddish authors were typically educated in and read gentile languages - principally Russian, Polish and, yes, German.

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  190. Jack D says:
    @Obsessive Contrarian
    "Yiddish was the main language of Polish Jews."

    I'm not going to google this, because I don't care to win internet arguments, but I've read that up until WWI, that was true of older Polish Jews, but not younger.

    At the threshold of WWII, the majority of Polish Jews spoke Polish as their first language. Perhaps they knew Yiddish to communicate with Bubbe & Zeide, but they spoke and wrote in Polish. They were truly becoming assimilated, and it is an interesting if futile thought experiment to wonder what would have happened if they hadn't been slaughtered en masse.

    The German Jews wouldn't have spoken Yiddish for all the tea in China*. They thought it was "zhargon."

    *Since I'm in a safe space here, I can write that.

    This is hilarious because all you folks are talking about stuff where you have no frigging idea what you are talking about and it’s something that I happen to know about personally and you are completely, totally wrong. This is like Gell Mann Amnesia – if this is really your level of knowledge in other areas, I shudder to think.

    I grew up in a community of E. European Jewish Holocaust survivors, who all ended up being chicken farmers in NJ. These were all people born during or after WWI. They were not ultra-Orthodox, just regular garden variety E. European Jews. With the exception of one couple who had grown up in Warsaw and who spoke Polish to each other (and stood out as a result), every single one of them spoke Yiddish morning, noon and night as their primary language. It’s what they would speak to each other, to their kids, to their friends, everywhere. It was also a lingua franca because some of them were from Poland, from Romania, from Hungary, etc. but they could all speak Yiddish. Of course when they interacted with Americans they spoke (accented)English but that’s not what they spoke at home. It was the language for old people, for young people, for everyone. Americans apparently have a tough time conceiving that you could grow up in a country and yet not speak the local language as your primary language but that’s how it was.

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    • Replies: @Obsessive Contrarian
    http://haygenealogy.com/nagy/sources/Galicia-jews.pdf

    I am referring to POLISH Jews, not Jews who emigrated to the US. The vast majority had become quite assimilated, and spoke Polish as their native language.

    Dope.
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  191. AP says:
    @PiltdownMan
    Great article, Steve. Thanks.

    Ethiopia's dominant group, the Amharas, are phenotypically different from most sub-Saharan African groups, and their features put them closer to Egypts Copts or Arabs in the Gulf. That portrait of Haile Selassie is a good example.

    They have always been conscious of this, as well as proud of their ancient Christianity, and consider themselves to be separate from the peoples, cultures and the Africanist political traditions (such as they are) in the other parts of the continent.

    During the time of the Emperor in the post-War period, Addis Ababa was one of the more cosmopolitan African cities, with a curious mix of non-third-world Italian and Southern European/Levantine cultures and facilities—it had nice restaurants, department stores and delis—and a middle-ages local culture centered around its ancient churches and colorfully dressed clergy. And Ethiopian Airlines, one of the modernizing initiatives by the Emperor, deservedly had a reputation for being one of the world's nicest airlines .

    http://theethiopianworldfederationinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Clergy.jpg

    Ethiopia – another place screwed up by Communists.

    Read More
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  192. @Jack D
    Pardon my French, but you don't know what the f)ck you are talking about. I grew up in this environment. Most of the Jews of E. Europe were NOT reasonably educated in Western languages. Many were not educated at all except in Yiddish/Hebrew. There was a small intelligentsia in the big cities that had a Western education but the masses in the shtetls had primary school educations at best. Even if they knew other languages, Yiddish was their primary language - the one that they spoke at home. There were older people who spoke ONLY Yiddish and spoke the local language poorly if at all.

    Your presumptions about the "kind of people" whose sons grow up to be academic administrators are all wrong. I am that kind of people (2 Ivy degrees) and my father was (and I am not embarrassed to say this) illiterate in the Roman alphabet (though he was an avid reader of the Yiddish newspaper). As a child, his father put him and his brothers to work as soon as they were able so that the family would not starve and could not spare him for Polish school, let alone learning "prestige" languages (of course he sent him to cheder (Hebrew school) because every Jew needed to know how to pray. Yiddish was written in the Hebrew alphabet so if you could read Hebrew you could read Yiddish). Modern Americans can't really conceive of that kind of poverty (nor does it reconcile with people's images of "rich Jews") - you would have to go to the slums of Bombay to understand it.

    Yiddish had a large and thriving literature. The Yiddish Book Center on the campus of Hampshire College has a large library filled with nothing but Yiddish books.

    https://www.yiddishbookcenter.org/

    As for Yiddish speakers reading German, first of all you have to be able to read the Roman alphabet, which was not a given. 2nd, while Yiddish is a Germanic language, it is NOT German. The two are somewhat mutually intelligible but not totally. Assuming you could read the alphabet, it would roughly the same as say a Dutch speaker or a Dane reading German - certain words you would get and certain words you don't. About 20% of Yiddish is Hebrew rather than German. Even for words that are Germanic, you have the kind of differences that are found between American and British English (hood vs bonnet). And you can read it better than you can speak it because not only is the vocabulary different but so is the grammar.

    I think the key here is the fact that many people don’t understand that while Yiddish is similar to German in some ways in the spoken form, it is written in a completely different script.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    It goes deeper than that. A lot of this came from Jews themselves who came up in the world and began to speak standard German and wanted to forget about their humble shtetl roots which they were ashamed of. No, they never spoke Yiddish. Didn't know it, not at all. Maybe my grandpa knew it but that was before my time. Well maybe I knew a few words or jokes here and there, which I've since forgotten, but that's it. Otherwise we always spoke the King's English.

    My mother used to tell a joke about putting on airs. A peasant who was drafted into the Polish Army comes home on leave and he's wearing (for the 1st time - Polish peasants like the poor in the American South would go barefoot in summer) a pair of shiny boots and he's got the uniform with the brass buttons and and so on. And he looks around the yard and he points to the chickens who are pecking around as they always are and he says to his mother, "Mama, what sort of bird is this?".

    And that's what Yiddish was like to some.

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  193. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous
    Genuine question: in what language did each of your parents/grandparents first learn to read?

    In what language did they first read a whole book?

    Answer: Yiddish. In my father’s case, first and only. I never knew either of my parents to read a book in any language though my father was a devoted reader of the Yiddish newspaper (and consumer of TV news). He was especially not interested in any work of fiction, which he called “lies”. I did not know my paternal grandparents (you know who took care of that) but I don’t expect they were book readers either.

    My maternal grandfather had an unusual education in Galicia province of the Austro-Hungarian Empire before WWI – Baron de Hirsch, a Jewish philanthropist (in Austria/Hungary Jews could be elevated to the nobility) funded a network of secular Jewish primary schools (I don’t think Galicia had free public schools at least in the shtetls – it was the poorest province in the Empire). In those schools, Yiddish was the language of instruction (again probably the only language that the kids spoke fluently) but in the de Hirsch schools it was taught using the Roman alphabet. (I still have letters he wrote to my mother). But it wasn’t German, it was Yiddish (admittedly a somewhat Germanized Yiddish). I think the goal of these schools was to gradually switch the kids over to standard German and if WWI hadn’t happened it probably would have worked eventually (in Vienna this process would have been complete and German/Austrian Jews spoke only German and regarded Yiddish as an inferior dialect that they pretended not to know even though they did) but after WWI, Galicia was part of Poland and my mother attended a public school where she learned Polish AND Ukrainian (the local peasantry was Ukrainian).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Thanks for a careful and indeed fascinating response which had not appeared when the response above was written.

    Again, we seem to be talking about different segments of the Jewish populations in Eastern Europe. My point is that among the better off (perhaps the wealthiest 5%) who could afford a secular education, a significant proportion had adopted German as one of their languages by, say, 1870. Of course, there would be significant variations in this respect between the different empires, between cities and small towns, etc.

    As far back as 1783, Moses Mendelssohn (a native Yiddish speaker) had published a translation of the Torah into High German written in the Hebrew alphabet. The translation was apparently intended for use by German-speaking Jews who were familiar with the Hebrew alphabet but perhaps not fully literate in Hebrew.
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  194. Z-man says:
    @PiltdownMan
    Great article, Steve. Thanks.

    Ethiopia's dominant group, the Amharas, are phenotypically different from most sub-Saharan African groups, and their features put them closer to Egypts Copts or Arabs in the Gulf. That portrait of Haile Selassie is a good example.

    They have always been conscious of this, as well as proud of their ancient Christianity, and consider themselves to be separate from the peoples, cultures and the Africanist political traditions (such as they are) in the other parts of the continent.

    During the time of the Emperor in the post-War period, Addis Ababa was one of the more cosmopolitan African cities, with a curious mix of non-third-world Italian and Southern European/Levantine cultures and facilities—it had nice restaurants, department stores and delis—and a middle-ages local culture centered around its ancient churches and colorfully dressed clergy. And Ethiopian Airlines, one of the modernizing initiatives by the Emperor, deservedly had a reputation for being one of the world's nicest airlines .

    http://theethiopianworldfederationinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Clergy.jpg

    The Somalis also, racially speaking. Funny during around the time of ‘Black Hawk Down’ I remember a story of on NBC? about this old guy proudly taking out his old Italian issue uniform and resuming his duties as traffic cop on a major square in Mogadishu.

    Read More
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  195. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    Pardon my French, but you don't know what the f)ck you are talking about. I grew up in this environment. Most of the Jews of E. Europe were NOT reasonably educated in Western languages. Many were not educated at all except in Yiddish/Hebrew. There was a small intelligentsia in the big cities that had a Western education but the masses in the shtetls had primary school educations at best. Even if they knew other languages, Yiddish was their primary language - the one that they spoke at home. There were older people who spoke ONLY Yiddish and spoke the local language poorly if at all.

    Your presumptions about the "kind of people" whose sons grow up to be academic administrators are all wrong. I am that kind of people (2 Ivy degrees) and my father was (and I am not embarrassed to say this) illiterate in the Roman alphabet (though he was an avid reader of the Yiddish newspaper). As a child, his father put him and his brothers to work as soon as they were able so that the family would not starve and could not spare him for Polish school, let alone learning "prestige" languages (of course he sent him to cheder (Hebrew school) because every Jew needed to know how to pray. Yiddish was written in the Hebrew alphabet so if you could read Hebrew you could read Yiddish). Modern Americans can't really conceive of that kind of poverty (nor does it reconcile with people's images of "rich Jews") - you would have to go to the slums of Bombay to understand it.

    Yiddish had a large and thriving literature. The Yiddish Book Center on the campus of Hampshire College has a large library filled with nothing but Yiddish books.

    https://www.yiddishbookcenter.org/

    As for Yiddish speakers reading German, first of all you have to be able to read the Roman alphabet, which was not a given. 2nd, while Yiddish is a Germanic language, it is NOT German. The two are somewhat mutually intelligible but not totally. Assuming you could read the alphabet, it would roughly the same as say a Dutch speaker or a Dane reading German - certain words you would get and certain words you don't. About 20% of Yiddish is Hebrew rather than German. Even for words that are Germanic, you have the kind of differences that are found between American and British English (hood vs bonnet). And you can read it better than you can speak it because not only is the vocabulary different but so is the grammar.

    We seem to be talking at cross purposes.

    Nobody denies that many Jews in Eastern Europe spoke Yiddish as their first language.

    My point – which is culturally quite important – is that post WW II, the (small but significant) proportion of East European Jews who had adopted (more or less standard) German has been downplayed. This is emotionally understandable, but distorts the facts and thus our understanding. Moreover, starting in the late 1800s, the use of local languages (Polish, Czech, Romanian) had started to gain much greater political and cultural force within the traditional empires. This process accelerated with the disintegration of the empires into ethnic states after WW I.

    German was naturally more of a factor in the Austrian/Hungarian domains. Sigmund Freud, Franz Kafka, Arthur Koestler, Elie Wiesel etc. grew up speaking and reading German (as well as other languages). However, even within the Russian Empire, there was a (small) Jewish middle class who cultivated German. For example, about Rosa Luxemburg (referred to earlier, grew up in the Russian Empire), Wikipedia tells us:

    The family spoke German and Polish, and Luxemburg also learned Russian.[6]

    Even accepting that your father “avidly read Yiddish newspapers” (which still exist but stopped being very active in the 1970s), surely as a person already literate in Yiddish (and presumably some Hebrew) he was not entirely illiterate in the “Roman alphabet” as such – presumably, he could sign his name in his passport, and fill out government documents, and recognize street signs etc.

    In a separate post, I asked you in what language your father first read an entire book (by himself – being guided through the Torah does not count).

    Yiddish literature – much to the chagrin of its writers and fans – was never more than a marginal phenomenon within Jewish culture and was frequently scoffed at by educated Jews. Its most famous exponent, Sholem Aleichem (author of “Fiddler on the Roof”), graduated from Russian grammar school and translated material from Russian. Other Yiddish authors were typically educated in and read gentile languages – principally Russian, Polish and, yes, German.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D

    Even accepting that your father “avidly read Yiddish newspapers” (which still exist but stopped being very active in the 1970s), surely as a person already literate in Yiddish (and presumably some Hebrew) he was not entirely illiterate in the “Roman alphabet” as such – presumably, he could sign his name in his passport, and fill out government documents, and recognize street signs etc.
     
    It's very strange to me that you won't take my statements at face value. I have nothing to gain from them. Do you want me to find the subscription records of the Jewish Daily Forward (if they still have them, which I doubt) to prove to you that he was a subscriber? Why would I lie about this?

    When my father came to the US he received some adult education and learned to scratch out a reasonable facsimile of a signature in the Roman alphabet by rote and could recognize some of the letters, but not so much as to read a street sign or fill out a document. He relied upon my mother (who could read and to some extent write English) and I to do this. It's very common for immigrant parents to rely on their kids for that kind of stuff from a very young age. It is sort of hard to believe, I know, that this kind of illiteracy once existed (and in some places still exists) but it did. To be honest, my father was an outlier since he happened to come from an exceptionally poor family. Even in his own family, by the time he was of school age his parents were able to afford to send his (10 yrs) younger brother to primary school so his brother, my uncle, was able to read and write Polish (and later English).

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  196. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus
    "Another sleepwalker. Sorry that I bothered."

    Actually I'm woke. Listen, you seem to be of the mindset that most people are being duped, that when they listen to music or watch television/film, they are other than able to process what they watch.

    What makes YOU different in this regard? What skillset do you have compared to others so as you are not easily swayed by the subtle (or not so subtle) messages of popular culture?

    Actually I’m woke.

    The truest statement you’ve ever made…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "The truest statement you’ve ever made…"

    Right. I am aware of current affairs and offer up positions when required. You?
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  197. @Jack D
    Another Ethiopian mania occurred in Israel. There was some Ethiopian tribe that had a few vaguely Jewish customs, maybe introduced by a passing Jewish merchant or even a Christian missionary (history in semi-literate places is a vague thing). Somehow, someone in Israel decided that they were really Jews. An oppressed community of Jews in danger for their lives (in Ethiopian this tribe was considered low caste and not treated well) and THIS TIME Israel would save them. The head Sephardi Rabbi, always anxious for more followers to vote for his patronage based political party, CERTIFIED they were Jewish. And Israel flew over 100,000 of these primitive tribesmen. Their integration with Israeli society has gone about as well as you would have expected - not so hot.

    ” The head Sephardi Rabbi, always anxious for more followers to vote for his patronage based political party, CERTIFIED they were Jewish.”

    This is a slur. There is no reason to think that the late R. Yosef was insincere in considering the Falashas Jewish . He was relying on the halachic precedent of Rabbi David ibn Zimra ,a noted 16th century authority. While his conclusion wasn’t consistent with ethnographic findings it was sincerely held.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    My sincere apologies. R. Yosef was a pure and holy scholar, just like the Ayatollahs of Iran. While it's true that he founded a patronage based political party that would put Tammany Hall to shame, he would never have allowed political considerations to sway his pure and holy opinions. Never.
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  198. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    Answer: Yiddish. In my father's case, first and only. I never knew either of my parents to read a book in any language though my father was a devoted reader of the Yiddish newspaper (and consumer of TV news). He was especially not interested in any work of fiction, which he called "lies". I did not know my paternal grandparents (you know who took care of that) but I don't expect they were book readers either.

    My maternal grandfather had an unusual education in Galicia province of the Austro-Hungarian Empire before WWI - Baron de Hirsch, a Jewish philanthropist (in Austria/Hungary Jews could be elevated to the nobility) funded a network of secular Jewish primary schools (I don't think Galicia had free public schools at least in the shtetls - it was the poorest province in the Empire). In those schools, Yiddish was the language of instruction (again probably the only language that the kids spoke fluently) but in the de Hirsch schools it was taught using the Roman alphabet. (I still have letters he wrote to my mother). But it wasn't German, it was Yiddish (admittedly a somewhat Germanized Yiddish). I think the goal of these schools was to gradually switch the kids over to standard German and if WWI hadn't happened it probably would have worked eventually (in Vienna this process would have been complete and German/Austrian Jews spoke only German and regarded Yiddish as an inferior dialect that they pretended not to know even though they did) but after WWI, Galicia was part of Poland and my mother attended a public school where she learned Polish AND Ukrainian (the local peasantry was Ukrainian).

    Thanks for a careful and indeed fascinating response which had not appeared when the response above was written.

    Again, we seem to be talking about different segments of the Jewish populations in Eastern Europe. My point is that among the better off (perhaps the wealthiest 5%) who could afford a secular education, a significant proportion had adopted German as one of their languages by, say, 1870. Of course, there would be significant variations in this respect between the different empires, between cities and small towns, etc.

    As far back as 1783, Moses Mendelssohn (a native Yiddish speaker) had published a translation of the Torah into High German written in the Hebrew alphabet. The translation was apparently intended for use by German-speaking Jews who were familiar with the Hebrew alphabet but perhaps not fully literate in Hebrew.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Germany was as different from the Pale of Settlement and Galicia as the US is from Mexico or El Salvador. Even now when you cross the border from Poland to Ukraine, the difference is shocking - on one side of the border, late model VW and Mercedes, on the other side rattley old Lada and, I kid you not, horse drawn hay wagons out in the countryside. In 1939 there was still no electricity or indoor plumbing in my mother's shtetl. There were a few big urban centers in the east that had an urban educated Jewish bourgeoisie but they were a small minority like the rich people who live in the nice neighborhoods in Mexico City who all know English because they went to college in the US. 90%+ of Jews lived in the East and not in Germany.
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  199. @syonredux

    The Amish were originally from Germany. Germany has a higher IQ then Italy, Poland, Greece, France- pretty much everywhere but England and Scandinavia. While leaving might select for IQ now, that would be recent- for most of their history the Amish weren’t very different from the rest of society.
     
    Yeah, but my question was: Is the average Amish IQ higher than the White American average? In other words, is it over 100?

    I doubt it. Either way, the Amish are a cult.

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  200. Sean says:
    @Sean
    Fear of China staging a Korean war style intervention was a major restraint on America in taking the war to North Vietnam. The Vietnamese were lauded in the 60s
    "Ho Ho Chi Minh, the NLF is gonna win!"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUlbKlE20-4

    As with the communist insurrection in Malaysia, the Viet Cong were ethnically Chinese to a great extent. In Malaysia the British simply expelled the ethnic Chinese population, much to the delight of the Malays. The Phoenix program might have been war-winning effective if it had went after anyone of Chinese ancestry irrespective of political views.

    Read More
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    This actually isn't true for Vietnam, which is one reason among many that the VC was far more effective than the Malayan Communists. The local Chinese tended to be bourgeois merchants who supported the southern government, whereas Malaysia's Chinese populace was much more rural, blue-collar, and for the majority, recently imported: largely for the tin and rubber plantations in British Malaya in the 1800s. (There was a previous wave of Chinese migration centuries earlier, but it was far smaller-and many of them intermarried with Malays, which is where Peranakan culture and food comes from.)

    Aside frome that, the North Vietnamese leadership tended to be a pretty ultra-nationalist, somewhat xenophobic bunch who would have never trusted the Hoa anyway. Even the PRC Chinese laborers that Mao sent in the 1960s to work on the infrastructure were kept very strictly segregated from the local populace and were put under constant surveillance. It wasn't just ancient history: Le Duan always viewed Ho Chi Minh's agreement to the Chinese brokered 1954 deal as a major mistake. Anyway, the Hoa made up a good percentage of the boat people post-1975 (many of those who didn't flee were expelled), one of many reasons that China and Vietnam's relationship soured in the 1970s to the point that they went to war at the end of the decade, which Vietnam arguably won.


    Now, the Khmer Rouge on the other hand is a different story. Pretty much the entire elite was partially Chinese descended-albeit critically assimilated into Khmer culture. (The unassimilated bourgeois trader Chinese in the big cities-similar to what you saw in Vietnam-of course, were targeted for destruction.) That wasn't insignificant. Nor was the fact that they'd all been educated in Paris in the 1950s. I think when you get right down to it, for all the mutual brutality that the two warring Vietnamese states (both dominated by ethnic Kinh) inflicted on each other, both had an essentially rational goal: an independent, modernized, united Vietnam that dominated the region. The fight was over whether to use the Soviet model or American model for that purpose. None of the insane, agrarian utopia thinking you saw in Cambodia. The intellectuals who dominated the Khmer Rouge hadn't the slightest conception of the reality of a peasant's life.

    The gap was mutual: most Khmer peasants who joined after 1970 were illiterate and could have hardly understood Marxism. They just wanted to fight to re-put Sihanouk on the throne... and to slaughter the urban Cambodians who they had utterly hated for a long, long time. Even today, if you go through rural Cambodia, support for the Khmer Rouge is a rather touchy subject among the former "Old People".

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  201. Sean says:
    @nebulafox
    The irony of that one is that although North Vietnam by the most part did their best to keep independent of both major Communist powers and play them off against each other, by the early 1970s, they'd decisively lean toward Moscow over Beijing. The Tet Offensive-specifically the hope that they could spark mass uprisings in the South-was by and large the pro-Chinese faction's idea, taking from the Maoist theory of war. As the war got more conventional during the Nixon years, Soviet military tactics became far more germane.

    As Linh Dinh alluded to, you talk to two Vietnamese, you'll get three opinions on just about everything... unless you are talking about national heroes who died fighting the Chinese many centuries ago.

    As with the communist insurrection in Malaysia, the Viet Cong were ethnically Chinese to a great extent. In Malaysia the British simply expelled the ethnic Chinese population, much to the delight of the Malays. The Phoenix program might have been war-winning effective if it had went after anyone of Chinese ancestry irrespective of political views.

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  202. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous
    Thanks for a careful and indeed fascinating response which had not appeared when the response above was written.

    Again, we seem to be talking about different segments of the Jewish populations in Eastern Europe. My point is that among the better off (perhaps the wealthiest 5%) who could afford a secular education, a significant proportion had adopted German as one of their languages by, say, 1870. Of course, there would be significant variations in this respect between the different empires, between cities and small towns, etc.

    As far back as 1783, Moses Mendelssohn (a native Yiddish speaker) had published a translation of the Torah into High German written in the Hebrew alphabet. The translation was apparently intended for use by German-speaking Jews who were familiar with the Hebrew alphabet but perhaps not fully literate in Hebrew.

    Germany was as different from the Pale of Settlement and Galicia as the US is from Mexico or El Salvador. Even now when you cross the border from Poland to Ukraine, the difference is shocking – on one side of the border, late model VW and Mercedes, on the other side rattley old Lada and, I kid you not, horse drawn hay wagons out in the countryside. In 1939 there was still no electricity or indoor plumbing in my mother’s shtetl. There were a few big urban centers in the east that had an urban educated Jewish bourgeoisie but they were a small minority like the rich people who live in the nice neighborhoods in Mexico City who all know English because they went to college in the US. 90%+ of Jews lived in the East and not in Germany.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    QUOTE: Germany was as different from the Pale of Settlement and Galicia as the US is from Mexico or El Salvador.

    Undoubtedly true. For those even less familiar with Central European geography than Anonymous:

    Galicia is the part of present-day Ukraine that belonged to the Austrian/Hungarian monarchy.

    The "Pale of Settlement" was an area within the Russian Empire (but outside Russia proper) where Jews were officially permitted to settle. It corresponds to parts of present-day Poland, Belarus and Ukraine (other than Galicia).
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  203. Jack D says:
    @Johann Ricke
    I think the key here is the fact that many people don't understand that while Yiddish is similar to German in some ways in the spoken form, it is written in a completely different script.

    It goes deeper than that. A lot of this came from Jews themselves who came up in the world and began to speak standard German and wanted to forget about their humble shtetl roots which they were ashamed of. No, they never spoke Yiddish. Didn’t know it, not at all. Maybe my grandpa knew it but that was before my time. Well maybe I knew a few words or jokes here and there, which I’ve since forgotten, but that’s it. Otherwise we always spoke the King’s English.

    My mother used to tell a joke about putting on airs. A peasant who was drafted into the Polish Army comes home on leave and he’s wearing (for the 1st time – Polish peasants like the poor in the American South would go barefoot in summer) a pair of shiny boots and he’s got the uniform with the brass buttons and and so on. And he looks around the yard and he points to the chickens who are pecking around as they always are and he says to his mother, “Mama, what sort of bird is this?”.

    And that’s what Yiddish was like to some.

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    • LOL: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    A lot of this [denial of knowing the old language] came from Jews themselves who came up in the world and began to speak ___ and wanted to forget about their ... roots which they were ashamed of. No, they never spoke ___. Didn’t know it, not at all. Maybe my grandpa knew it but that was before my time. Well maybe I knew a few words or jokes here and there, which I’ve since forgotten, but that’s it. Otherwise we always spoke the King’s English.
     
    Ultimate irony, as the story comes full circle (with a slightly different demographic): now it is German itself that its speakers "no longer remember."
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  204. Jack D says:
    @kaganovitch
    " The head Sephardi Rabbi, always anxious for more followers to vote for his patronage based political party, CERTIFIED they were Jewish."

    This is a slur. There is no reason to think that the late R. Yosef was insincere in considering the Falashas Jewish . He was relying on the halachic precedent of Rabbi David ibn Zimra ,a noted 16th century authority. While his conclusion wasn't consistent with ethnographic findings it was sincerely held.

    My sincere apologies. R. Yosef was a pure and holy scholar, just like the Ayatollahs of Iran. While it’s true that he founded a patronage based political party that would put Tammany Hall to shame, he would never have allowed political considerations to sway his pure and holy opinions. Never.

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    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    Fwiw , there is little reason to assume the Ayatollah Khomeini's religious opinions were not sincerely held either. R. Yosef's responsa regarding Falasha as Jewish was written at least a decade before the founding of Shas , which is not btw anywhere near as corrupt as Tammany , and in any case no more corrupt than the Ashkenazi parties it competes with.
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  205. Corvinus says:
    @Anon

    Actually I’m woke.
     
    The truest statement you've ever made...

    “The truest statement you’ve ever made…”

    Right. I am aware of current affairs and offer up positions when required. You?

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  206. gda says:
    @Corvinus
    "There are four and a half distinct races in sub-Saharan Africa: Negroes, Nilotics, Pygmies, Hottentots, and that Cushitic race salad in the Horn."

    No, these groups are NOT "distinct races", but are particular tribal ethnic groups. The "Hottentots" are actually the Khoikhoi, or Khoi, peoples, who practiced pastoral agriculture. It was the Dutch who labeled them in this fashion. In essence, they created a concept based on their particular worldview at the time.

    Sub-Saharan Africans are Negroid/Black.

    Regardless, "Black Panther" is a film, The Coalition of the Right and the Coalition of the Left are having a field day crafting their narrative--"race realism" vs. "race power". In the end, those who see the movie are desiring to be entertained, and generally not thinking about the movie from a Sailerian or SJW lens.

    “In the end, those who see the movie are desiring to be entertained…..”

    Are they? I’m just bemused about the shrill attempts in the media to push this crap down our throats.

    “poised to be one of this year’s biggest grosser”
    “seeing record reservations”

    Sure.

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  207. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous
    We seem to be talking at cross purposes.

    Nobody denies that many Jews in Eastern Europe spoke Yiddish as their first language.

    My point - which is culturally quite important - is that post WW II, the (small but significant) proportion of East European Jews who had adopted (more or less standard) German has been downplayed. This is emotionally understandable, but distorts the facts and thus our understanding. Moreover, starting in the late 1800s, the use of local languages (Polish, Czech, Romanian) had started to gain much greater political and cultural force within the traditional empires. This process accelerated with the disintegration of the empires into ethnic states after WW I.

    German was naturally more of a factor in the Austrian/Hungarian domains. Sigmund Freud, Franz Kafka, Arthur Koestler, Elie Wiesel etc. grew up speaking and reading German (as well as other languages). However, even within the Russian Empire, there was a (small) Jewish middle class who cultivated German. For example, about Rosa Luxemburg (referred to earlier, grew up in the Russian Empire), Wikipedia tells us:


    The family spoke German and Polish, and Luxemburg also learned Russian.[6]
     
    Even accepting that your father "avidly read Yiddish newspapers" (which still exist but stopped being very active in the 1970s), surely as a person already literate in Yiddish (and presumably some Hebrew) he was not entirely illiterate in the "Roman alphabet" as such - presumably, he could sign his name in his passport, and fill out government documents, and recognize street signs etc.

    In a separate post, I asked you in what language your father first read an entire book (by himself - being guided through the Torah does not count).

    Yiddish literature - much to the chagrin of its writers and fans - was never more than a marginal phenomenon within Jewish culture and was frequently scoffed at by educated Jews. Its most famous exponent, Sholem Aleichem (author of "Fiddler on the Roof"), graduated from Russian grammar school and translated material from Russian. Other Yiddish authors were typically educated in and read gentile languages - principally Russian, Polish and, yes, German.

    Even accepting that your father “avidly read Yiddish newspapers” (which still exist but stopped being very active in the 1970s), surely as a person already literate in Yiddish (and presumably some Hebrew) he was not entirely illiterate in the “Roman alphabet” as such – presumably, he could sign his name in his passport, and fill out government documents, and recognize street signs etc.

    It’s very strange to me that you won’t take my statements at face value. I have nothing to gain from them. Do you want me to find the subscription records of the Jewish Daily Forward (if they still have them, which I doubt) to prove to you that he was a subscriber? Why would I lie about this?

    When my father came to the US he received some adult education and learned to scratch out a reasonable facsimile of a signature in the Roman alphabet by rote and could recognize some of the letters, but not so much as to read a street sign or fill out a document. He relied upon my mother (who could read and to some extent write English) and I to do this. It’s very common for immigrant parents to rely on their kids for that kind of stuff from a very young age. It is sort of hard to believe, I know, that this kind of illiteracy once existed (and in some places still exists) but it did. To be honest, my father was an outlier since he happened to come from an exceptionally poor family. Even in his own family, by the time he was of school age his parents were able to afford to send his (10 yrs) younger brother to primary school so his brother, my uncle, was able to read and write Polish (and later English).

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Jack, I certainly did not mean to imply that you were lying. My remark was badly phrased due to an ill-considered re-write of the sentence.

    What I meant to say was "even accepting that your father ONLY read Yiddish newspapers," he must have known at least the basic Roman alphabet. You have graciously stated that your father could indeed write Roman letters to some extent.

    I have no difficulty believing that he did not (and could not) read books or newspapers in English or other Western languages. In other words, he could read and write individual Roman letters, but (unlike your mother) he was not literate in any language other than Yiddish.

    BTW thanks for sharing a fascinating personal history.

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  208. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    It goes deeper than that. A lot of this came from Jews themselves who came up in the world and began to speak standard German and wanted to forget about their humble shtetl roots which they were ashamed of. No, they never spoke Yiddish. Didn't know it, not at all. Maybe my grandpa knew it but that was before my time. Well maybe I knew a few words or jokes here and there, which I've since forgotten, but that's it. Otherwise we always spoke the King's English.

    My mother used to tell a joke about putting on airs. A peasant who was drafted into the Polish Army comes home on leave and he's wearing (for the 1st time - Polish peasants like the poor in the American South would go barefoot in summer) a pair of shiny boots and he's got the uniform with the brass buttons and and so on. And he looks around the yard and he points to the chickens who are pecking around as they always are and he says to his mother, "Mama, what sort of bird is this?".

    And that's what Yiddish was like to some.

    A lot of this [denial of knowing the old language] came from Jews themselves who came up in the world and began to speak ___ and wanted to forget about their … roots which they were ashamed of. No, they never spoke ___. Didn’t know it, not at all. Maybe my grandpa knew it but that was before my time. Well maybe I knew a few words or jokes here and there, which I’ve since forgotten, but that’s it. Otherwise we always spoke the King’s English.

    Ultimate irony, as the story comes full circle (with a slightly different demographic): now it is German itself that its speakers “no longer remember.”

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  209. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    Even accepting that your father “avidly read Yiddish newspapers” (which still exist but stopped being very active in the 1970s), surely as a person already literate in Yiddish (and presumably some Hebrew) he was not entirely illiterate in the “Roman alphabet” as such – presumably, he could sign his name in his passport, and fill out government documents, and recognize street signs etc.
     
    It's very strange to me that you won't take my statements at face value. I have nothing to gain from them. Do you want me to find the subscription records of the Jewish Daily Forward (if they still have them, which I doubt) to prove to you that he was a subscriber? Why would I lie about this?

    When my father came to the US he received some adult education and learned to scratch out a reasonable facsimile of a signature in the Roman alphabet by rote and could recognize some of the letters, but not so much as to read a street sign or fill out a document. He relied upon my mother (who could read and to some extent write English) and I to do this. It's very common for immigrant parents to rely on their kids for that kind of stuff from a very young age. It is sort of hard to believe, I know, that this kind of illiteracy once existed (and in some places still exists) but it did. To be honest, my father was an outlier since he happened to come from an exceptionally poor family. Even in his own family, by the time he was of school age his parents were able to afford to send his (10 yrs) younger brother to primary school so his brother, my uncle, was able to read and write Polish (and later English).

    Jack, I certainly did not mean to imply that you were lying. My remark was badly phrased due to an ill-considered re-write of the sentence.

    What I meant to say was “even accepting that your father ONLY read Yiddish newspapers,” he must have known at least the basic Roman alphabet. You have graciously stated that your father could indeed write Roman letters to some extent.

    I have no difficulty believing that he did not (and could not) read books or newspapers in English or other Western languages. In other words, he could read and write individual Roman letters, but (unlike your mother) he was not literate in any language other than Yiddish.

    BTW thanks for sharing a fascinating personal history.

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  210. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    Germany was as different from the Pale of Settlement and Galicia as the US is from Mexico or El Salvador. Even now when you cross the border from Poland to Ukraine, the difference is shocking - on one side of the border, late model VW and Mercedes, on the other side rattley old Lada and, I kid you not, horse drawn hay wagons out in the countryside. In 1939 there was still no electricity or indoor plumbing in my mother's shtetl. There were a few big urban centers in the east that had an urban educated Jewish bourgeoisie but they were a small minority like the rich people who live in the nice neighborhoods in Mexico City who all know English because they went to college in the US. 90%+ of Jews lived in the East and not in Germany.

    QUOTE: Germany was as different from the Pale of Settlement and Galicia as the US is from Mexico or El Salvador.

    Undoubtedly true. For those even less familiar with Central European geography than Anonymous:

    Galicia is the part of present-day Ukraine that belonged to the Austrian/Hungarian monarchy.

    The “Pale of Settlement” was an area within the Russian Empire (but outside Russia proper) where Jews were officially permitted to settle. It corresponds to parts of present-day Poland, Belarus and Ukraine (other than Galicia).

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  211. @Jack D
    This is hilarious because all you folks are talking about stuff where you have no frigging idea what you are talking about and it's something that I happen to know about personally and you are completely, totally wrong. This is like Gell Mann Amnesia - if this is really your level of knowledge in other areas, I shudder to think.

    I grew up in a community of E. European Jewish Holocaust survivors, who all ended up being chicken farmers in NJ. These were all people born during or after WWI. They were not ultra-Orthodox, just regular garden variety E. European Jews. With the exception of one couple who had grown up in Warsaw and who spoke Polish to each other (and stood out as a result), every single one of them spoke Yiddish morning, noon and night as their primary language. It's what they would speak to each other, to their kids, to their friends, everywhere. It was also a lingua franca because some of them were from Poland, from Romania, from Hungary, etc. but they could all speak Yiddish. Of course when they interacted with Americans they spoke (accented)English but that's not what they spoke at home. It was the language for old people, for young people, for everyone. Americans apparently have a tough time conceiving that you could grow up in a country and yet not speak the local language as your primary language but that's how it was.

    http://haygenealogy.com/nagy/sources/Galicia-jews.pdf

    I am referring to POLISH Jews, not Jews who emigrated to the US. The vast majority had become quite assimilated, and spoke Polish as their native language.

    Dope.

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  212. BB753 says:

    Reading this thread, you’d swear Wakanda’s official language was Yiddish.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Reading this thread, you’d swear Wakanda’s official language was Yiddish.
     
    Although not an official language, Yiddish was historically the predominant language in many of the small kraalakh established throughout Wakanda's "Dark of Settlement." The forebears of today's Jewish Wakandans were invited to settle within the D-O-S during the reign of T'Chaka.
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  213. @Obsessive Contrarian
    Do they feel any sense of kinship with the Amhara? I was a bit surprised to learn that Ustinov's Ethiopian ancestry was Oromo-ese, because I had always thought that the royal family of Ethiopia was Amharic.

    Ethiopia baffles me. It's the only African country I would love to visit.

    On that point, my ignorance equals yours. My knowledge isn’t that in-depth. You should visit and take in other African countries as well, might find that we’re not as painted here.

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    • Replies: @Obsessive Contrarian
    As an American, I can say that we are not as painted in The Guardian, so I can identify.
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  214. @Jack D
    My sincere apologies. R. Yosef was a pure and holy scholar, just like the Ayatollahs of Iran. While it's true that he founded a patronage based political party that would put Tammany Hall to shame, he would never have allowed political considerations to sway his pure and holy opinions. Never.

    Fwiw , there is little reason to assume the Ayatollah Khomeini’s religious opinions were not sincerely held either. R. Yosef’s responsa regarding Falasha as Jewish was written at least a decade before the founding of Shas , which is not btw anywhere near as corrupt as Tammany , and in any case no more corrupt than the Ashkenazi parties it competes with.

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  215. @Obsessive Contrarian
    @Piltdown,

    Do you remember where Villa Verde was? Was the area verde, or that dun color that the highlands of Ethiopia always seems to look like in photos.

    I imagine that your childhood memories of Ethiopia are so vivid is because the place was just gobsmackingly spectacular, and impressions formed in childhood are deeply imprinted. The two obviously formed an indelible impression.

    Thank you.

    Do you remember where Villa Verde was? Was the area verde, or that dun color that the highlands of Ethiopia always seems to look like in photos.

    It was about an 45 minute drive (IIRC) out of town. Ethiopia was sparsely populated then, as Steve has noted, with less than a quarter of the population it has today. Villa Verde was the name of the restaurant, but seemed unconnected to the terrain. Addis and the environs around it were thickly forested with eucalyptus trees (as I remember my mom mentioning) , the leaves of which lent a dusty, dark green color to landscapes. I expect population growth has led to substantial deforestation. A quick google search confirms this, but here’s what distant vistas from Addis Ababa generally looked like.

    Further out, I remember the countryside being farmland on the side of gentle mountain slopes, or boulder strewn. Small hot springs were not uncommon.

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  216. @Doug
    Great article. Good mix of historical fact and iSteve interpretation. Learned a lot, but was still entertained.

    I agree, and Steve’s closing line “you have to be in bad shape to want to risk your life to get to Yemen” is a classic.

    Could someone here catalog Steve’s best closing lines (or at least suggest a few favorites?)

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  217. FPD72 says:
    @BB753
    If you kill a Mexican or a Black, you'll end up dead in prison anyway. What would have been Zimmerman's fate in prison, had he been convicted of the murder amd martyr of Saint Trayvon?

    Funny that you cite Zimmerman to support your contention. How’s he doing in prison right now? Oh, wait, that’s right, he wasn’t convicted. He’s still walking around free.

    If the choice is between being at the whims of thugs or using deadly force to defend myself and my loved ones, the thugs lose every time.

    I went mano y mano with burglars when I was a young man. Now that I’m in my late sixties I’m not doing that again.

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    • Replies: @BB753
    Zimmerman would have been convicted if Trayvon's retarded girlfriend hadn't taken the stand. It was pretty close. And the bruthas would have killed Zimmerman in prison, no doubt.
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  218. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @BB753
    Reading this thread, you'd swear Wakanda's official language was Yiddish.

    Reading this thread, you’d swear Wakanda’s official language was Yiddish.

    Although not an official language, Yiddish was historically the predominant language in many of the small kraalakh established throughout Wakanda’s “Dark of Settlement.” The forebears of today’s Jewish Wakandans were invited to settle within the D-O-S during the reign of T’Chaka.

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  219. BB753 says:
    @FPD72
    Funny that you cite Zimmerman to support your contention. How’s he doing in prison right now? Oh, wait, that’s right, he wasn’t convicted. He’s still walking around free.

    If the choice is between being at the whims of thugs or using deadly force to defend myself and my loved ones, the thugs lose every time.

    I went mano y mano with burglars when I was a young man. Now that I’m in my late sixties I’m not doing that again.

    Zimmerman would have been convicted if Trayvon’s retarded girlfriend hadn’t taken the stand. It was pretty close. And the bruthas would have killed Zimmerman in prison, no doubt.

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  220. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Haile Selassie was really only fairly selassie.

    “Allahassee Lassie” was #6 on the charts in Ethopia in June of 1959?

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  221. Any chance that Wakanda-Americans will start wearing their pants pulled up?

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    • Replies: @BB753
    Maybe vibranium will do the trick and keep their pants in place!
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  222. @Nigerian Nationalist
    On that point, my ignorance equals yours. My knowledge isn't that in-depth. You should visit and take in other African countries as well, might find that we're not as painted here.

    As an American, I can say that we are not as painted in The Guardian, so I can identify.

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  223. Jefferson says:
    @Jack D
    I'm comparing the average Sicilian immigrant of 1898 with the average Mexican immigrant of 2018 - there's some difference but some similarity - Catholic, working in the building trades such as masonry, etc.

    We Italians in The U.S are way more comparalible to Russians and Asians than to Mexicans. All 3 groups in The U.S are way more middle class on average than under class despite all 3 groups having an organized crime element (Cosa Nostra, Triads, Yakuza, Russian Mafia). Despite this tie to organized crime, we are not lumped in with the Brown (Mexican) and Black under classes.We Italians in The U.S are way more comparalible to Russians and Asians than to Mexicans. All 3 groups in The U.S are way more middle class on average than under class despite all 3 groups having an organized crime element (Cosa Nostra, Triads, Yakuza, Russian Mafia). Despite this tie to organized crime, we are not lumped in with the Brown (Mexican) and Black under classes.

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  224. BB753 says:
    @Jonathan Silber
    Any chance that Wakanda-Americans will start wearing their pants pulled up?

    Maybe vibranium will do the trick and keep their pants in place!

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  225. nebulafox says:
    @Sean
    As with the communist insurrection in Malaysia, the Viet Cong were ethnically Chinese to a great extent. In Malaysia the British simply expelled the ethnic Chinese population, much to the delight of the Malays. The Phoenix program might have been war-winning effective if it had went after anyone of Chinese ancestry irrespective of political views.

    This actually isn’t true for Vietnam, which is one reason among many that the VC was far more effective than the Malayan Communists. The local Chinese tended to be bourgeois merchants who supported the southern government, whereas Malaysia’s Chinese populace was much more rural, blue-collar, and for the majority, recently imported: largely for the tin and rubber plantations in British Malaya in the 1800s. (There was a previous wave of Chinese migration centuries earlier, but it was far smaller-and many of them intermarried with Malays, which is where Peranakan culture and food comes from.)

    Aside frome that, the North Vietnamese leadership tended to be a pretty ultra-nationalist, somewhat xenophobic bunch who would have never trusted the Hoa anyway. Even the PRC Chinese laborers that Mao sent in the 1960s to work on the infrastructure were kept very strictly segregated from the local populace and were put under constant surveillance. It wasn’t just ancient history: Le Duan always viewed Ho Chi Minh’s agreement to the Chinese brokered 1954 deal as a major mistake. Anyway, the Hoa made up a good percentage of the boat people post-1975 (many of those who didn’t flee were expelled), one of many reasons that China and Vietnam’s relationship soured in the 1970s to the point that they went to war at the end of the decade, which Vietnam arguably won.

    Now, the Khmer Rouge on the other hand is a different story. Pretty much the entire elite was partially Chinese descended-albeit critically assimilated into Khmer culture. (The unassimilated bourgeois trader Chinese in the big cities-similar to what you saw in Vietnam-of course, were targeted for destruction.) That wasn’t insignificant. Nor was the fact that they’d all been educated in Paris in the 1950s. I think when you get right down to it, for all the mutual brutality that the two warring Vietnamese states (both dominated by ethnic Kinh) inflicted on each other, both had an essentially rational goal: an independent, modernized, united Vietnam that dominated the region. The fight was over whether to use the Soviet model or American model for that purpose. None of the insane, agrarian utopia thinking you saw in Cambodia. The intellectuals who dominated the Khmer Rouge hadn’t the slightest conception of the reality of a peasant’s life.

    The gap was mutual: most Khmer peasants who joined after 1970 were illiterate and could have hardly understood Marxism. They just wanted to fight to re-put Sihanouk on the throne… and to slaughter the urban Cambodians who they had utterly hated for a long, long time. Even today, if you go through rural Cambodia, support for the Khmer Rouge is a rather touchy subject among the former “Old People”.

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  226. nebulafox says:
    @PiltdownMan

    So, not to go all Dr. Pangloss, but most of humanity has gotten their act together on this issue, even conservative Muslim cultures.
     
    The most populous Muslim societies, India, Indonesia, and Bangladesh have. Pakistan hasn't.

    The societies to watch are the oil rich Gulf States and the currently less populous Muslim countries like Afghanistan. Saudi Arabia has gone from 5 million to 30+ million since the first oil price boom in the early 1970s. Afghanistan has seen a similar change.

    Given that Pakistan's population (then West Pakistan) was 33 million in 1947 and is now 207 million, it is important to watch the demographics of these countries closely for the foreseeable future.

    One of the aforementioned non-African outliers, and unfortunately, the most prominent and dangerous of the lot is Pakistan… it is not going to be pretty there, to say the least. That the burgeoning populace will be competing with the residents of Delhi for water access doesn’t bode well. Afghanistan is trouble, too. That said, Saudi Arabia is at 2.7 or so kids per woman: higher than the norm for a developed country (much higher than nearby Iran), but much better than you’d expect for a nation like that or what it once was.

    The point is: it *can* be done in these nations. In Thailand, Indonesia, Brazil, and South Korea in the 1960s, it was not uncommon for a woman to have six kids. Within the course of a few decades, that had drastically changed. Bangladesh is about as culturally conservative, backward (atheist bloggers get hacked to death there), and trouble-laden as it gets: and yet it too has managed to cut down from 6 to 2. So, the question is the will to do it, whether the issue it is external funding and pressure, or internal implementation, or, as I believe, a combination of both. And this is important: it is integrally related to future migration patterns to the West. It’s not worth appeasing a bunch of religious wackos who, pray tell, used to be politically relevant, to forgo this, and we need to tie this in with aid money if necessary to force countries to do this. The Earth can’t support 8-9 billion people long-term, at least not pleasantly, if they want to all have good living standards.

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