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From my new column in Taki’s Magazine:

Gender Offenders
by Steve Sailer
November 22, 2017

… For years the press has been telling us that industries that hire mostly men—such as computer programming, defense, and the military—must be bad for women. No doubt, it is explained, all those horrible, evil male engineers must be teaming up to exploit the handful of female employees. After all, men and women are enemy genders. I mean, that’s what every lesbian women’s-studies professor says, and they wouldn’t have any incentive to lie, would they?

Therefore, women must be given much more in the way of affirmative-action quotas in technology companies. Similarly, the Obama administration went to war against the armed services over the purported “epidemic of rape in the military” that turned out to be only slightly more real than Haven Monahan’s fraternity-house gang rape on broken glass.

Instead, however, we see that careers where women are most abundant and most ambitious, such as television and movies, are where they are most exploited.

Why? It’s simple: supply and demand.

Read the whole thing there.

 
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  1. Is anyone anywhere making the obvious antifeminist criticism of these men by looking at all the guys who didn’t get the job or the promotion because all these shenanigans and talking about punishing all the women who got hired and promoted into the jobs those men should have gotten?

    Read More
    • Replies: @bomag

    ...punishing all the women who got hired and promoted into the jobs those men should have gotten?
     
    Indeed.

    But the subtext here is that only white men have any agency in the world; they can create another job, or somehow get along okay. Everyone else needs to be given stuff.

    It is a child - parent dynamic, and it is starting to rise to the level of a child stealing from a parent.
    , @Anonymous
    Truly the forgotten man... You needed that job, and you were the best qualified-- but they had to give it to an adventuress, because The 60s. Is that really fair?
    , @Anon
    Is anyone anywhere making the obvious antifeminist criticism of these men by looking at all the guys who didn’t get the job or the promotion because all these shenanigans and talking about punishing all the women who got hired and promoted into the jobs those men should have gotten?

    It's a game or 'are you in or are you out'?

    Things just look differently depending whether you're in or you're out.

    It's like hazing. Nasty business, but if it gets you IN to a cool fraternity, it wasn't humiliation but honor. But if you're not allowed in, it just seems soooo cruel; humiliation, dammit.

    It's like the scene in DAZED AND CONFUSED where girls have their own hazing ritual. Michelle Burke(Jodi Kramer) walks up to a girl and asks 'Are you in or are you out?'

    http://www.moviescriptsandscreenplays.com/BenandMatt/dazedandconfused.html

    SABRINA

    I'm nobody. I mean I wasn't in the truck.

    JODI

    Are you a freshman?

    SABRINA

    Yeah.

    JODI

    Well are you in or are you out?

    SABRINA

    In.

    As Jodi Kramer walks away with Sabrina, the girls in the background who were not asked to be 'In' seem resentful.

    Those who resent those who are In pretend to side with those who are Out, but the moment they are let In, they change their tunes. It's like all those Progs who are allowed In just play by the globalist narrative set for by the Power. Van Jones the communist goes along with Russia-narrative and shuts up about Palestinians. Indeed, so much of politics isn't so much about 'left' vs 'right' but Ins and Outs. I recall this Jewish kid in 8th grade who was so bitter because some popular clique didn't let him in.. but the moment he was let in, he was yammering about how wonderful those fellas are.

    It's like what Charlie asks Rob in HIGH FIDELITY. So, 'are you in or out?'

    https://youtu.be/MojJu9GjJAI?t=1h24m15s

    This high school mentality never leaves a lot of people, and in some ways, it becomes a bigger issue for those who were NOT popular in high school. They wanna over-compensate later. After all, while others were having fun with sports and cheerleading, they hit the books and looked forward to success in college and profession, and then it'd be revenge of the nerds and nerdettes. It's like some of the Jewish girls in high school who were total nerdettes later showed up in high reunion all done up babe-like, and they had fancy careers or some such.

    There was a time when such people didn't bother me as I was impervious to hierarchy stuff and just did my own thing. Rob Gordon says he was never a class warrior, and I can agree with his sentiments. I never hated 80s yuppies even though I didn't respect them. At the very least, they seemed honest in their materialism and narcissism. So, if they do better in terms of dough, what do I care? Even when I had lefty sympathies, I didn't much hate the yuppers or the materialists in college who focused on career and money.

    I really began to hate these people and the elites when money was not enough for them. They want privilege and holier-than-thou prestige as proggies. 80s yuppies may have been crass but they weren't about BS. Their attitude was like the kids in RISKY BUSINESS. Money.
    But 90s yuppies and thereafter in age of Clinton combined 80s materialism with retro-boomer radicalism & PC, and it got sickening. You got all these people so obsessed with money, power, privilege, and status yammering endlessly about how much they 'care', and it all comes down to flattering vain homos, crazy trannies, and crass 'immigrants' who just wanna leech off the West because they and their kind messed up their own nations.
    For the elites(esp vain wives of rich men), 'social justice' is just narcissism. If they really CARE about the poor, they should roll up their sleeves and go help out in poor communities. But all they care for is photo-ops. They wanna appear on Oprah and show off how they're associated with some save-the-world project. It's like phony-ass Jane Fonda just calling attention to herself as crusader.

    The elites are no longer content with their yachts. They push agendas that will destroy the West with massive colonization of helot labor and easy votes. I don't mind elites having much more money -- Bill Gates owning a mansion or some outlandish yacht -- , but I do mind elites and the managerial class using their money and power to take away the thing that matters most to patriotic Americans: a meaningful sense of nation and history,and also stuff like Freedom of Speech.
    Inequality per se isn't the problem. The problem is that those who are least equal and have most money will push agenda that will rob the masses of their national property. As long as there is nationalism, even the lowest member of the nation can feel 'In' on something? He is an 'In' as member of a special nation. But with globalism, the ONLY people who feel IN are those with privilege and status. Rest are just Out, even in their nations of origin. Today, the French, the real French, no longer feel In as a Frenchman. The only way they can feel special or In is as a rich guy or someone with status. Otherwise, he has no more claim to France than newly arrived Muslims and Africans. He has become a stranger in a familiar land.

    A lot of prog SJW types are just hissy wissy because they're out.. And this feeling of 'out' is always relative. After all, there are always more doors that lead into the the Ins of power and privilege. So, if you make it to an Ivy League school, you are 'In', but like the movie SOCIAL NETWORK showed -- albeit not very honestly -- , there are In clubs at Harvard that exclude others. So, even at elite colleges, some are more In than others are. And if you work in the CIA, some guys are more In than others are. So, no matter how In you are, you're always gonna feel Out relative to someone else. Indeed, paradoxically, those who are most In are gonna feel most Out since they are obsessed with the pissing contest of who is more In than others.

    And for some, there is the Cult of Outness even when they are most In. So, Matthew Weiner is totally In, but his MADMEN riffs on the cult of Wasps as the Eternal In and Jews as Eternal Out. And in a way, there is some psychological truth to this in the Iconic Sense. Wasps have style and looks that will make Jews feel inadequate. No matter how much power Jews have, they see Wasp style and look at the golden ideal. It is forever out of their grasp.

    Of course, in-and-out has sexual as well as social connotations, and it just goes to show how sexuality is a crucial factor in the game of social status.

    One gets the sense that a lot of women who are bitching now are bitter than they were left Out. If all those antics had led them In, they would not be so pissy. If they get in, the men are an ass-et. But if they are left Out, the men are ass-hats. Being 'in' means her-ass-ment, sexuality as instrument of status. But being 'out' means harassment, sexuality of victim of bad bad men.
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  2. Heros says:

    My daughter is in the second year of her 3 year CS Bachelor’s degree in a highly rated school where tuition is almost free but entry barriers are very high. In the first year there were 3 women in a class of 32, but one of the other girls didn’t pass the exams and the other one dropped out before they started. She completed the first year with a 3.85 GPA at the very head of the class and was told to apply for a scholarship but was turned down because my income/wealth disqualifies her. She is still working 20% for the IT company she has been at for over 5 years.

    This semester she is taking, among other classes including a large IT project, Physics (of course the teacher is covering global warming too), Numerical Analysis and Discrete Logic. The way the system works here is that if you fail a class you can keep repeating it until you pass. It turns out that in these difficult classes there are 3 groups of people: first timers, second timers and third timers who have to repeat the difficult classes.

    Anyway, she overheard a third timer say something to the effect “that’s almost as ugly as (my daughter)”. She wears no makeup, she has no piercings or tattoo’s, and she dresses modestly. This snide remark sent her into a tailspin for a week and my wife had to comfort her over skype a couple of nights in a row. She is nice looking, not fat in anyway, but not skinny either.

    Anyway, the point I am making is that even though she is eating these boy’s lunch, the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally. She will never be one of them, no matter how hard she tries.

    The point I am making is that if women want to work in a man’s world, they will become hard and calloused too. If they want Sugar and Spice and Everything Nice, then their true enemies are the feminists.

    Read More
    • Replies: @27 year old

    Anyway, the point I am making is that even though she is eating these boy’s lunch, the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally.
     
    Being called ugly is not a "slightest snub" to a woman. Attractiveness is part of the core of a woman's value. Getting a 9.0 GPA in computers is not.

    She knows that what really matters is whether men find her attractive and apparently they don't and its normal for that to be a scary and painful realization.
    , @JMcG
    What a rotten thing to do. It was probably intentional too, and had exactly the effect planned.
    One of my son’s baseball teammates has a mother who works for Microsoft.
    She is obviously very intelligent, but very kind as well.
    Her son is one of my favorite boys in the world. Super bright and engaging, just a great kid. Her husband also works in Big Tech and they do well for themselves.
    So, I hope your daughter reaps the rewards of all her hard work. Don’t let the bastards wear her down.
    Happy Thanksgiving
    , @JMcG
    What a rotten thing to do. It was probably intentional too, and had exactly the effect planned.
    One of my son’s baseball teammates has a mother who works for Microsoft.
    She is obviously very intelligent, but very kind as well.
    Her son is one of my favorite boys in the world. Super bright and engaging, just a great kid. Her husband also works in Big Tech and they do well for themselves.
    So, I hope your daughter reaps the rewards of all her hard work. Don’t let the bastards wear her down.
    Happy Thanksgiving
    , @Diversity Heretic
    What is your assessment of your chances of grandchildren from your daughter? Do you really want her to become "one of the boys?"
    , @L Woods
    If women want to be insulated from unkind words, they’d better stay even further away from other women.
    , @stillCARealist
    If your daughter plays her hand carefully, she'll eventually snag a genius brogrammer who makes enough so that she can stay home with the kids... and she can have a nice side career of her own due to her work ethic and brilliance. This is called hitting the jackpot for women. I and several female relatives have this situation.
    (didn't mean to refer to myself as brilliant, BTW. But your daughter clearly is.)
    , @nebulafox
    There are a lot of reasons I'm genuinely glad I'm male. Some of them are fairly obvious: no pregnancy. No periods. No time-bomb, at least within reason, meaning I can much more easily screw up in life and still get a Phd or work for a startup, one of which I'm doing right now and one of which I'm still hoping I can do. But a rarely stated one is that I've noticed that women are really... *vicious* to each other, really mean to each other, in a way that men aren't. I'm not going to say that being picked on as a guy was fun, but it lacked that sort of personal element of nastiness, that wish to ruin the boy's life entirely and totally, to it: and strangely enough, I think the physical element of it helped, in terms of getting the feelings out. Once it was over, it was over, and nobody thought about it the next day. I'm pretty sure that had anybody been feeling suicidal, the guys would have backed off. Not so with the women. There are way too many girls cutting themselves these days, and the Internet just makes it worse.

    Anyway, for what it is worth, any woman who is studying CS and physics, I'd be happy to treat to coffee, even without seeing her. Your daughter actually genuinely sounds like the type of woman I'd like to date. But since I'm a weirdo, the stock you should put in that is limited. And you've basically hit the nail on the head: I've seen it myself with female programmers. That's why I'm typically rather caustic about Western feminists crowing about "female solidarity". It seems totally divorced from the reality of how women actually treat each other.

    , @Vinteuil
    "...the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally..."

    Epictetus' Encheiridion ("Handbook") might be of help, here. Some relevant passages:

    "Our bodies are not up to us...the things that are not up to us are weak, enslaved, hindered, not our own...if you think that things naturally enslaved are free or that things not your own are your own, you will be thwarted, miserable, and upset, and will blame both gods and men..." (1)

    "What upsets people is not things themselves but their judgments about the things. For example, death is nothing dreadful (or else it would have appeared dreadful to Socrates), but instead the judgment about death that it is dreadful - that is what is dreadful... (5)

    "If someone reports back to you that so-and-so is saying bad things about you, do not reply to them but answer 'Obviously, he didn't know my other bad characteristics, since otherwise he wouldn't just have mentioned these.'" (33)
    , @oddsbodkins
    "The point I am making is that if women want to work in a man’s world, they will become hard and calloused too. "

    That was Hitchen's arguement against working women. As he put it: "It coarsens them." The trouble is, without any career a women married to a bad man becomes cruelly chained to him, and two incomes are necessary for a reasonable living anyway.
    , @Live Free or McRib

    Anyway, she overheard a third timer say something to the effect “that’s almost as ugly as (my daughter)”.
     
    The thing is...that comment could have happened in French class or even at an all-girls college. The fact that its CS certainly means more spergs and loser d-heads than the general population (CS grad here myself! ;) but I wouldn't generalize that experience as endemic to "STEM".

    College is the new middle school, and when your daughter is out in the real world, results in a tech field will speak for themselves. She can also start her own company and really get in the driver's seat if she is smart about things.

    I'd just treat that comment as low-stakes practice for the challenges that lie in wait for any talented future worker...the typical office backbiting, the occasional "HR kamikaze all y'all racist" types that can torpedo a career... and just the general BS that comes with growing up in early 21st century America.

    Main thing I'd worry about is for her to make time for a family when that time comes. The talented frequently forget to do that. But sounds like that will be a different chapter.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    CS students are often so socially inept that just a passing conversation is cringeworthy. I know you have explained to your daughter that this has nothing to do with her, and everything to do with the originator of the comment. But usually, among any CS cohort, there are two or three defective members that have nothing to offer except their ability to write code. For them, every problem is "easy" and if you don't think so, they will lord it over you. If she can hang in there, there is no upper bound on her opportunities. I have had HR managers tell me they have no open positions, but if I have a woman candidate, they'll make an exception. And the women I have seen in software are promoted rapidly.

    BTW, I have a math /cs son about to graduate, and I would be happy to set up an arranged marriage. ;-)
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  3. sabril says:

    I think the critical factor is eager young women.

    In this regard, the story of Glenn Thrush is instructive. Allegedly, he was out drinking with a group of reporters; the crowd dwindled down to him and a young woman (who happened to be wearing a miniskirt); he made a pass at her by putting his hand on her bare thigh and trying to kiss her; she rebuffed him. In the article, he is described as “the kind of seasoned journalist who would be good to know”

    As LotB pointed out, if Thrush had nothing to offer, it’s extremely unlikely that this girl would have hung around; she could have easily left when the gathering was breaking up.

    Of course journalism is a competitive industry and it’s flooded with young women who are trying to make it. It seems that a lot of young women, either instinctively or consciously or both, try to use sex appeal or sex to get ahead. In fact, I am pretty confident that a lot of the so-called victims of these various men were pretty enthusiastic about trading sexual services for advancement.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomas

    It seems that a lot of young women, either instinctively or consciously or both, try to use sex appeal or sex to get ahead. In fact, I am pretty confident that a lot of the so-called victims of these various men were pretty enthusiastic about trading sexual services for advancement.
     
    That should be fairly obvious. A good many of these allegations coming out of "pink-collar" industries like the media are likely being produced by would-be adventuresses who were hoping to get ahead by at least flirting with the boss. What likely happened is either the boss wanted a bit more than they were willing to offer and/or they didn't get quite the career boost they were hoping for. Note that nobody has (to my knowledge, unless I missed it) yet come out and admitted that, yeah, she slept with Harvey Weinstein for a part and that was the start of her career (it doesn't take a lot of imagination to look at the credits Weinstein has shared over the last 20 years with particular actresses who seemed to "come out of nowhere" to become Hollywood "it girls," note that a lot of them are still keeping stumm, and realize that who we're hearing from are primarily the ones who had come away dissatisfied with their transaction).
    , @Father O'Hara
    These broads want to use sexual appeal to get help in their jobs,but they figure enticement is good enough. They blanch at the idea of delivering the goods. (Didnt Freud make some kind comment about women who will sell themselves but not deliver?)
    , @stillCARealist
    Interesting about Thrush (what a name!). I wonder in how many of these situations alcohol plays an important part. I remember in my 20's acting in ways I regret around the opposite sex due to tipsiness.
    , @Anon
    I think the critical factor is eager young women.

    It's also OVER-COMPENSATION among men.

    Notice that many of these guys were not hot stuff in high school or even college. So, they earned delayed hotness points.

    Take a guy like John Lasseter. Total dork. I doubt if any girl looked at him in high school. I can't imagine him having the courage to walking up to a girl and asking her out.

    But the guy has a cool idea and makes a lot of money. Suddenly, women pay attention to him. He is one of the hottest people in Hollywood, with hit after hit. So, all of a sudden, he discovers he's attractive to women. Now, if he used this to good advantage, got a nice wife, and just settled down, then no problem.
    But because of his sudden success and boing-ish fun, he expects more and more women to put to him as well. He wants to over-compensate for what he missed in youth.
    It's like Tony Montana's 'wild and crazy guy' over-compensation. He ate octopus until it came out of his ears in Cuba. He got tired of living in virtuous poverty of communism. He wants some juicy red steak and a great big pu**y just waiting to get fuc*ed.

    Those who come out of the desert want to drink the entire lake. Those who suffered famine want to eat an entire horse. Those who experienced sex famine -- in a culture that says it's shameful to be virgin or not have tons of gals -- go wild when they finally get some pooter(or cooter as the case may be).

    And so many of these guys seem to be over-compensating. In Rose's case, not so much. He was a handsome guy. But maybe he got more desperate as his looks faded with age.

    A good movie about sexual dynamics of all this is IN THE COMPANY OF MEN by Neil Labute, a kind of Mormon David Mamet.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kvfCm-rVpQ

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  4. Twinkie says:

    Women tend to be too impressed by the men on screen and too hell-bent to get themselves on screen.

    That is gold. Well-done, sir.

    I would add another industry in which sexual harassment is ripe – politics. Go on the Hill (e.g. Rayburn) and see the legions of young female staffers waiting, waiting to be ever so nearer to centers of power and/or influence.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    After all the press about what goes on in DC, especially after Monica, how does a parent allow their young offspring, particularly a daughter, to be a party to that den of iniquity?
    , @Barnard

    Go on the Hill (e.g. Rayburn) and see the legions of young female staffers waiting, waiting to be ever so nearer to centers of power and/or influence.
     
    When we went on a class trip to Washington our senior year of high school, that is the first thing my friends and I noticed. Every member of Congress had at least one beautiful young women following him around. I would assume the number of men in Congress who have never cheated on their wives is pretty low. I wonder how many of the women in Congress are faithful to their husbands.
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  5. J Grant says:

    “For example, Ratner, who got his start in showbiz procuring white girls for rap mogul Russell Simmons,..”

    Interestingly Ratner’s Hollywood “father figure” was ex Paramount studio boss Robert Evans who is widely thought to have ascended the greasy pole by arranging for actress “introductions” for his own boss Charlie Bluhdorn who owned Gulf and Western.

    Procurement and prostitution. Complementary – ethnic – job advancement strategies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
    That's why women weren't allowed on the stage at some periods e.g. in England.

    In other cultures, e.g. in the Far East, actors, acrobats and other entertainers were simply treated as a cast of disreputable prostitutes (of both sexes) - entertaining but socially dangerous - and confined to the margins of society (and their endogamous culture).

    Communist societies were not immune. Remember Brezhnev's daughter running off with a circus gypsy?

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  6. @Heros
    My daughter is in the second year of her 3 year CS Bachelor's degree in a highly rated school where tuition is almost free but entry barriers are very high. In the first year there were 3 women in a class of 32, but one of the other girls didn't pass the exams and the other one dropped out before they started. She completed the first year with a 3.85 GPA at the very head of the class and was told to apply for a scholarship but was turned down because my income/wealth disqualifies her. She is still working 20% for the IT company she has been at for over 5 years.

    This semester she is taking, among other classes including a large IT project, Physics (of course the teacher is covering global warming too), Numerical Analysis and Discrete Logic. The way the system works here is that if you fail a class you can keep repeating it until you pass. It turns out that in these difficult classes there are 3 groups of people: first timers, second timers and third timers who have to repeat the difficult classes.

    Anyway, she overheard a third timer say something to the effect "that's almost as ugly as (my daughter)". She wears no makeup, she has no piercings or tattoo's, and she dresses modestly. This snide remark sent her into a tailspin for a week and my wife had to comfort her over skype a couple of nights in a row. She is nice looking, not fat in anyway, but not skinny either.

    Anyway, the point I am making is that even though she is eating these boy's lunch, the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally. She will never be one of them, no matter how hard she tries.

    The point I am making is that if women want to work in a man's world, they will become hard and calloused too. If they want Sugar and Spice and Everything Nice, then their true enemies are the feminists.

    Anyway, the point I am making is that even though she is eating these boy’s lunch, the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally.

    Being called ugly is not a “slightest snub” to a woman. Attractiveness is part of the core of a woman’s value. Getting a 9.0 GPA in computers is not.

    She knows that what really matters is whether men find her attractive and apparently they don’t and its normal for that to be a scary and painful realization.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Altai
    True, to have a man actually say something like that out loud in a comment she wasn't supposed to hear (Ie, the person saying it felt it was true and wasn't trying to insult her) is something few women ever have to deal with.

    From other women sure, but to have a guy feel the need to say it out loud would be very painful. Women are by nature and by custom the passive agent in courtship, that has advantages and disadvantages. One of the disadvantages is constantly worrying that nobody will approach you as you become less and less youthful. You can see why women become neurotic when they're suddenly also asked to spend huge amounts of what should be prime courtship time commuting back and forth to college/work and spend time worrying about college/work/career advancement and their female social network without a structured courtship system. A lot of people who should be coming together are drifting past each other every day with nothing so much as a glance between them on the street/public transport.

    , @Heros

    "Attractiveness is part of the core of a woman’s value"
     
    That is so Patriarchical, the feminists would claim. But nowhere is it more important than among females themselves where relative beauty largely determines the hierarchy. Women of beauty are able to leverage that beauty in both worlds so that it often becomes a crutch in a way similar to race. It is not surprising that claims of "racism" and "mysogeny" are usually interchangeable.

    My daughter is the only female in her class, so there no competition on that side. And she is in a long term relationship and not interested in boys that are too immature to even complete their homework so they have to repeat one or more times because they are infatuated with computer games and pop culture.

    Vulnerability is important in women being appealing as a mate for a lifetime, because if she is able to ward off and excel in a world inhabited by creeps like Harvey Weinstein or Janet Napolitano then she will lose it. Compassion and empathy are vulnerabilities. Hard ass alpha women are readily available but not very desirable. Mid 30's, divorced, abortions, children, and a hard life of who knows what. She won't be vulnerable and likely she will likely be a man-hating feminist.
    , @dearieme
    "She knows that what really matters is whether men find her attractive and apparently they don’t": or perhaps it's just that one young man, scared of women or jealous of her success, made a disparaging remark. He's a third timer, for heaven's sake; his views, real or purported, should just be waved away.

    The remark was only disparaging; it's the girl who decided that it was hurtful. I'm not sure that she has to become hard and calloused but she does have to grow up a bit.

    , @Frau Katze
    Women are upset by criticisms of their appearance because that’s how they attract men.

    If they can’t attract a man, they won’t have children. Evolutionary dead end.

    Men also have to attract women but the criteria are different. Power, money, being an alpha male are plus points.

    That third timer sounds like a loser. First off he’s not too bright. Likely won’t go far career wise.
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  7. Thomas says:
    @sabril
    I think the critical factor is eager young women.

    In this regard, the story of Glenn Thrush is instructive. Allegedly, he was out drinking with a group of reporters; the crowd dwindled down to him and a young woman (who happened to be wearing a miniskirt); he made a pass at her by putting his hand on her bare thigh and trying to kiss her; she rebuffed him. In the article, he is described as "the kind of seasoned journalist who would be good to know"

    As LotB pointed out, if Thrush had nothing to offer, it's extremely unlikely that this girl would have hung around; she could have easily left when the gathering was breaking up.

    Of course journalism is a competitive industry and it's flooded with young women who are trying to make it. It seems that a lot of young women, either instinctively or consciously or both, try to use sex appeal or sex to get ahead. In fact, I am pretty confident that a lot of the so-called victims of these various men were pretty enthusiastic about trading sexual services for advancement.

    It seems that a lot of young women, either instinctively or consciously or both, try to use sex appeal or sex to get ahead. In fact, I am pretty confident that a lot of the so-called victims of these various men were pretty enthusiastic about trading sexual services for advancement.

    That should be fairly obvious. A good many of these allegations coming out of “pink-collar” industries like the media are likely being produced by would-be adventuresses who were hoping to get ahead by at least flirting with the boss. What likely happened is either the boss wanted a bit more than they were willing to offer and/or they didn’t get quite the career boost they were hoping for. Note that nobody has (to my knowledge, unless I missed it) yet come out and admitted that, yeah, she slept with Harvey Weinstein for a part and that was the start of her career (it doesn’t take a lot of imagination to look at the credits Weinstein has shared over the last 20 years with particular actresses who seemed to “come out of nowhere” to become Hollywood “it girls,” note that a lot of them are still keeping stumm, and realize that who we’re hearing from are primarily the ones who had come away dissatisfied with their transaction).

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    • Replies: @sabril

    That should be fairly obvious.
     
    A lot of things are fairly obvious but seem to fall into mainstream society's blind spot. In this case, there has been essentially zero mainstream criticism of these "adventuresses," which is a polite way of referring to whores.

    If gynocentrism weren't so deeply embedded in modern Western culture, it would be pretty shocking, actually. If it's wrong to exchange sex for opportunities, then logically both parties to the transaction are culpable. And yet the men are demonized while the women are defended and excused.
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  8. Jake says:

    Steve’s second sentence: “Why has the feminism-promoting media industry turned out to be the worst offender in abusing young women?”

    That’s exactly the same as asking: “Why have the proclaimed poor-loving Marxists slaughtered far more poor than all Western monarchies combined?”

    The revolutionaries against Christendom promise paradise on earth, at least for those they deem Elect as Victims. But they always deliver Hell on earth, often most for those they claim to be focused on saving, uplifting, promoting.

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  9. Altai says:
    @27 year old

    Anyway, the point I am making is that even though she is eating these boy’s lunch, the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally.
     
    Being called ugly is not a "slightest snub" to a woman. Attractiveness is part of the core of a woman's value. Getting a 9.0 GPA in computers is not.

    She knows that what really matters is whether men find her attractive and apparently they don't and its normal for that to be a scary and painful realization.

    True, to have a man actually say something like that out loud in a comment she wasn’t supposed to hear (Ie, the person saying it felt it was true and wasn’t trying to insult her) is something few women ever have to deal with.

    From other women sure, but to have a guy feel the need to say it out loud would be very painful. Women are by nature and by custom the passive agent in courtship, that has advantages and disadvantages. One of the disadvantages is constantly worrying that nobody will approach you as you become less and less youthful. You can see why women become neurotic when they’re suddenly also asked to spend huge amounts of what should be prime courtship time commuting back and forth to college/work and spend time worrying about college/work/career advancement and their female social network without a structured courtship system. A lot of people who should be coming together are drifting past each other every day with nothing so much as a glance between them on the street/public transport.

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    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    Astute comment! Societies traditionally had ways for boys and girls, and then young men and women, to get together in activities that didn't explicitly involve pairing off. That broke down male shyness and gave women a way of indicating interest without having to run a serious risk of explicit or public rejection. Bar or clubbing scenes are no way to chose a prospective mate and the hazards of looking for romance in the office/work setting are becoming increasingly evident.

    To any men, reading this, I suggest taking a foreign language and perhaps joining a discussion group. I'm in a French language one right now and the ratio is about 4 or 5 women to each man. I'm already married, so I really am in the group to practice my French. But I met my French wife at an Alliance Française event.
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  10. Svigor says:

    After all, men and women are enemy genders. I mean, that’s what every lesbian women’s-studies professor says, and they wouldn’t have any incentive to lie, would they?

    Yeah, I’ve been wondering how much of the local crop of white knights fighting for rich Hollywood pervs (and the manosphere!) are just sodomites looking to emulate lesbians and their feminism.

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  11. bomag says:
    @Guy de Champlagne
    Is anyone anywhere making the obvious antifeminist criticism of these men by looking at all the guys who didn't get the job or the promotion because all these shenanigans and talking about punishing all the women who got hired and promoted into the jobs those men should have gotten?

    …punishing all the women who got hired and promoted into the jobs those men should have gotten?

    Indeed.

    But the subtext here is that only white men have any agency in the world; they can create another job, or somehow get along okay. Everyone else needs to be given stuff.

    It is a child – parent dynamic, and it is starting to rise to the level of a child stealing from a parent.

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  12. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    How about the great “Hollywood for ugly people” twist of Gillibrand shivving Hillary recently… The young fresh-faced quinquagenarian starlet devouring the 70-year-old wizened cackling ex-marquee goddess, it was like something out of daytime TV. “Thanks for clearing the ramps, sister, and now I don’t need you any more!” Also tees up a grand sociological experiment with majority-female military units, if those were ever to exist

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    • Replies: @anonguy

    How about the great “Hollywood for ugly people” twist of Gillibrand shivving Hillary recently…
     
    Ok, but thinking about Hollywood for attractive people, aka Hollywood.

    Now, everybody out there is gorgeous. Except this unending parade of sexual harassment troll guys, who are distinctly unattractive by nearly any measure.

    As they say, when you see a turtle on a fence, ya gotta ask how it got there....

    Anyhow, my thesis is that the ugliness in a Hollywood person is a predictor of sexual harassment behavior.

    Not because of the anecdotal empirical evidence, but simply because they are ugly. It predicts sexual harassment, being ugly and successful in an environment in which physical beauty is prized.

    Any of you guys want to save me the trouble and explain why this is? It couldn't be any other way.

    Beuhler, Beuhler?
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  13. Svigor says:

    K, pretty sure I’ve got the right thread for this one…

    Why? It’s simple

    Indeed. There was a real shortage of women during American western expansion (probably because of the White Man’s misogyny, and not all the hard living, back-breaking work, and murderous savages). Hence, gunfights over whores.

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  14. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Guy de Champlagne
    Is anyone anywhere making the obvious antifeminist criticism of these men by looking at all the guys who didn't get the job or the promotion because all these shenanigans and talking about punishing all the women who got hired and promoted into the jobs those men should have gotten?

    Truly the forgotten man… You needed that job, and you were the best qualified– but they had to give it to an adventuress, because The 60s. Is that really fair?

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  15. JMcG says:
    @Heros
    My daughter is in the second year of her 3 year CS Bachelor's degree in a highly rated school where tuition is almost free but entry barriers are very high. In the first year there were 3 women in a class of 32, but one of the other girls didn't pass the exams and the other one dropped out before they started. She completed the first year with a 3.85 GPA at the very head of the class and was told to apply for a scholarship but was turned down because my income/wealth disqualifies her. She is still working 20% for the IT company she has been at for over 5 years.

    This semester she is taking, among other classes including a large IT project, Physics (of course the teacher is covering global warming too), Numerical Analysis and Discrete Logic. The way the system works here is that if you fail a class you can keep repeating it until you pass. It turns out that in these difficult classes there are 3 groups of people: first timers, second timers and third timers who have to repeat the difficult classes.

    Anyway, she overheard a third timer say something to the effect "that's almost as ugly as (my daughter)". She wears no makeup, she has no piercings or tattoo's, and she dresses modestly. This snide remark sent her into a tailspin for a week and my wife had to comfort her over skype a couple of nights in a row. She is nice looking, not fat in anyway, but not skinny either.

    Anyway, the point I am making is that even though she is eating these boy's lunch, the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally. She will never be one of them, no matter how hard she tries.

    The point I am making is that if women want to work in a man's world, they will become hard and calloused too. If they want Sugar and Spice and Everything Nice, then their true enemies are the feminists.

    What a rotten thing to do. It was probably intentional too, and had exactly the effect planned.
    One of my son’s baseball teammates has a mother who works for Microsoft.
    She is obviously very intelligent, but very kind as well.
    Her son is one of my favorite boys in the world. Super bright and engaging, just a great kid. Her husband also works in Big Tech and they do well for themselves.
    So, I hope your daughter reaps the rewards of all her hard work. Don’t let the bastards wear her down.
    Happy Thanksgiving

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  16. JMcG says:
    @Heros
    My daughter is in the second year of her 3 year CS Bachelor's degree in a highly rated school where tuition is almost free but entry barriers are very high. In the first year there were 3 women in a class of 32, but one of the other girls didn't pass the exams and the other one dropped out before they started. She completed the first year with a 3.85 GPA at the very head of the class and was told to apply for a scholarship but was turned down because my income/wealth disqualifies her. She is still working 20% for the IT company she has been at for over 5 years.

    This semester she is taking, among other classes including a large IT project, Physics (of course the teacher is covering global warming too), Numerical Analysis and Discrete Logic. The way the system works here is that if you fail a class you can keep repeating it until you pass. It turns out that in these difficult classes there are 3 groups of people: first timers, second timers and third timers who have to repeat the difficult classes.

    Anyway, she overheard a third timer say something to the effect "that's almost as ugly as (my daughter)". She wears no makeup, she has no piercings or tattoo's, and she dresses modestly. This snide remark sent her into a tailspin for a week and my wife had to comfort her over skype a couple of nights in a row. She is nice looking, not fat in anyway, but not skinny either.

    Anyway, the point I am making is that even though she is eating these boy's lunch, the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally. She will never be one of them, no matter how hard she tries.

    The point I am making is that if women want to work in a man's world, they will become hard and calloused too. If they want Sugar and Spice and Everything Nice, then their true enemies are the feminists.

    What a rotten thing to do. It was probably intentional too, and had exactly the effect planned.
    One of my son’s baseball teammates has a mother who works for Microsoft.
    She is obviously very intelligent, but very kind as well.
    Her son is one of my favorite boys in the world. Super bright and engaging, just a great kid. Her husband also works in Big Tech and they do well for themselves.
    So, I hope your daughter reaps the rewards of all her hard work. Don’t let the bastards wear her down.
    Happy Thanksgiving

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  17. AndrewR says:

    Has anyone else google image searched Olivia Munn, one of Brett Ratner’s accusers, or Leeann Tweeden, the girl who accused Al Franken (hint: she posed nude in Playboy)? These are females who make their living off of giving males erections, but the second a guy slips them some tongue or masturbates in front if them they become these innocent virginal Victorian victims who need smelling salts.

    It’s especially important to note that Tweeden’s Playboy modeling was years after her alleged victimization by Franken. Clearly she was not very traumatized by Franken’s “sexual assault” if she went on to pose nude in a magazine years later.

    I wish fewer females would pretend to not understand that if they dress like they’re DTF then men will assume that they’re DTF.

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    • Agree: BenKenobi, Frau Katze
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  18. @Heros
    My daughter is in the second year of her 3 year CS Bachelor's degree in a highly rated school where tuition is almost free but entry barriers are very high. In the first year there were 3 women in a class of 32, but one of the other girls didn't pass the exams and the other one dropped out before they started. She completed the first year with a 3.85 GPA at the very head of the class and was told to apply for a scholarship but was turned down because my income/wealth disqualifies her. She is still working 20% for the IT company she has been at for over 5 years.

    This semester she is taking, among other classes including a large IT project, Physics (of course the teacher is covering global warming too), Numerical Analysis and Discrete Logic. The way the system works here is that if you fail a class you can keep repeating it until you pass. It turns out that in these difficult classes there are 3 groups of people: first timers, second timers and third timers who have to repeat the difficult classes.

    Anyway, she overheard a third timer say something to the effect "that's almost as ugly as (my daughter)". She wears no makeup, she has no piercings or tattoo's, and she dresses modestly. This snide remark sent her into a tailspin for a week and my wife had to comfort her over skype a couple of nights in a row. She is nice looking, not fat in anyway, but not skinny either.

    Anyway, the point I am making is that even though she is eating these boy's lunch, the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally. She will never be one of them, no matter how hard she tries.

    The point I am making is that if women want to work in a man's world, they will become hard and calloused too. If they want Sugar and Spice and Everything Nice, then their true enemies are the feminists.

    What is your assessment of your chances of grandchildren from your daughter? Do you really want her to become “one of the boys?”

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  19. L Woods says:
    @Heros
    My daughter is in the second year of her 3 year CS Bachelor's degree in a highly rated school where tuition is almost free but entry barriers are very high. In the first year there were 3 women in a class of 32, but one of the other girls didn't pass the exams and the other one dropped out before they started. She completed the first year with a 3.85 GPA at the very head of the class and was told to apply for a scholarship but was turned down because my income/wealth disqualifies her. She is still working 20% for the IT company she has been at for over 5 years.

    This semester she is taking, among other classes including a large IT project, Physics (of course the teacher is covering global warming too), Numerical Analysis and Discrete Logic. The way the system works here is that if you fail a class you can keep repeating it until you pass. It turns out that in these difficult classes there are 3 groups of people: first timers, second timers and third timers who have to repeat the difficult classes.

    Anyway, she overheard a third timer say something to the effect "that's almost as ugly as (my daughter)". She wears no makeup, she has no piercings or tattoo's, and she dresses modestly. This snide remark sent her into a tailspin for a week and my wife had to comfort her over skype a couple of nights in a row. She is nice looking, not fat in anyway, but not skinny either.

    Anyway, the point I am making is that even though she is eating these boy's lunch, the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally. She will never be one of them, no matter how hard she tries.

    The point I am making is that if women want to work in a man's world, they will become hard and calloused too. If they want Sugar and Spice and Everything Nice, then their true enemies are the feminists.

    If women want to be insulated from unkind words, they’d better stay even further away from other women.

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    • Agree: Heros
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  20. Not all that much evolutionary psychology replicates, but this meta analysis that finds that more men leads to less rape seems pretty solid. They bury the lede a bit.

    Updated: here’s the PDF version- https://ryanschacht.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/tree_submission.pdf

    http://www.cell.com/trends/ecology-evolution/abstract/S0169-5347(14)00025-1

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  21. Great story. Thanks for the Lockheed stuff, Steve. You were a lucky kid, as was I, also with an engineer father. But he wasn’t hobnobbing with SR-71 designers!

    True also about how even being a host on the tiniest local TV channel can be heaven for a bachelor. I won’t say why I know that.

    Happy Thanksgiving.

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    • Replies: @Moses
    I clicked on one of the links in the Taki post and ended up on this excellent tribute to Kelly Johnson in Smithsonian's Air & Space magazine: https://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/head-skunk-5960121/?all

    The 1950s and 60s must have been a helluva time in the SoCal aeronautical industry. Back when Beach Boys Cali really was the promised land.
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  22. Moses says:

    It’s funny that we are constantly told that companies with “low” numbers of women and minorities are “actually hurting themselves” because “diversity is strength.”

    Yet even the most SJW companies like Google and Apple have predominantly White, Jewish and male management and White/Jewish/Asian engineering.

    You’d think a startup would come along employing all the oppressed/ignored women and Black engineering and management talent and totally clean up. I mean, they would run rings around the competition.

    I bet it will happen any day now. Short GOOG and AAPL if you know what’s good for you.

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  23. Moses says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    Great story. Thanks for the Lockheed stuff, Steve. You were a lucky kid, as was I, also with an engineer father. But he wasn't hobnobbing with SR-71 designers!

    True also about how even being a host on the tiniest local TV channel can be heaven for a bachelor. I won't say why I know that.

    Happy Thanksgiving.

    I clicked on one of the links in the Taki post and ended up on this excellent tribute to Kelly Johnson in Smithsonian’s Air & Space magazine: https://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/head-skunk-5960121/?all

    The 1950s and 60s must have been a helluva time in the SoCal aeronautical industry. Back when Beach Boys Cali really was the promised land.

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  24. sabril says:
    @Thomas

    It seems that a lot of young women, either instinctively or consciously or both, try to use sex appeal or sex to get ahead. In fact, I am pretty confident that a lot of the so-called victims of these various men were pretty enthusiastic about trading sexual services for advancement.
     
    That should be fairly obvious. A good many of these allegations coming out of "pink-collar" industries like the media are likely being produced by would-be adventuresses who were hoping to get ahead by at least flirting with the boss. What likely happened is either the boss wanted a bit more than they were willing to offer and/or they didn't get quite the career boost they were hoping for. Note that nobody has (to my knowledge, unless I missed it) yet come out and admitted that, yeah, she slept with Harvey Weinstein for a part and that was the start of her career (it doesn't take a lot of imagination to look at the credits Weinstein has shared over the last 20 years with particular actresses who seemed to "come out of nowhere" to become Hollywood "it girls," note that a lot of them are still keeping stumm, and realize that who we're hearing from are primarily the ones who had come away dissatisfied with their transaction).

    That should be fairly obvious.

    A lot of things are fairly obvious but seem to fall into mainstream society’s blind spot. In this case, there has been essentially zero mainstream criticism of these “adventuresses,” which is a polite way of referring to whores.

    If gynocentrism weren’t so deeply embedded in modern Western culture, it would be pretty shocking, actually. If it’s wrong to exchange sex for opportunities, then logically both parties to the transaction are culpable. And yet the men are demonized while the women are defended and excused.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    And yet the men are demonized while the women are defended and excused.
     
    Because men-- white men, at that-- are the only adults in the room.
    , @Moses
    This reminds me of the question "Why do rock stars date models?"

    Answer: Because they can.

    Similarly, "Why do women duck responsibility and agency, benefitting from the "transaction" whilst crying "I'm a victim!" for Pokemon points?

    Answer: Because they can.
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  25. Brutusale says:
    @Twinkie

    Women tend to be too impressed by the men on screen and too hell-bent to get themselves on screen.
     
    That is gold. Well-done, sir.

    I would add another industry in which sexual harassment is ripe - politics. Go on the Hill (e.g. Rayburn) and see the legions of young female staffers waiting, waiting to be ever so nearer to centers of power and/or influence.

    After all the press about what goes on in DC, especially after Monica, how does a parent allow their young offspring, particularly a daughter, to be a party to that den of iniquity?

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    After all the press about what goes on in DC, especially after Monica, how does a parent allow their young offspring, particularly a daughter, to be a party to that den of iniquity?
     
    If not after Monica, then at least after the Chandra Levy affair. I remember reading an article at the time, and some members of the poor girl's family even knew that she was Gary Condit's mistress, and it didn't seem to bother them any.
    , @Anon
    After all the press about what goes on in DC, especially after Monica, how does a parent allow their young offspring, particularly a daughter, to be a party to that den of iniquity?

    Are you kidding? Today's parents, even dads, are perfectly okay with their daughters losing virginity early on, going to spring break and having orgies, and etc. Fathers are supposed to be totally Okay with their girls growing up looking up to Ariana Grande and Kim Kardashian. These are cucked out dads. Also, some dads grew up as horny boomers or cynical X-ers. They have RISKY BUSINESS view of life.

    There used to be a time when men married virgin women.

    Now, most men are married to women who did lots of men before marriage. Kids grow up knowing that their parents had many partners before marriage, so that is the thing. The formula is not search for love, courtship, marriage, and commitment. Marriage is not seen as the main goal of life. Instead, it's seen as a afterthought, something you settle into after you had all your fun and got bored with it. So, the new way is for a woman to be a whore and screw around and then, once she gets tired with it and wants to have a kid before her womb goes dry, she settles down.

    Of course, not all women act like this -- and even some Lib men and women privately frown on such attitude -- , but it is the Iconic Norm in our society. Indeed, a parents who wishes their kids to be stick to love, courtship, and marriage are seen as 'freaks'.

    Vito Corleone had it right. It's the only way that works for most people, but our society is degenerate.
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  26. Big Bill says:

    From your article:

    Of course, there is little effective solidarity among women in the media business. As a female CNN producer noted:

    There aren’t that many female executive producers. And they’re mean to those girls who are pretty and want to be on television.

    This is why the current mass sex hysteria truly puzzles me. All the media women are competing with each other, not with men. They know it. We know it. The smartest move for most girls is to encourage dumber girls to quit and file suit, thereby knocking themselves out of the running, and clearing a spot for the smarter girls to take their place.

    So why are girls — the pretty and successful ones — suddenly piling on? What has changed?

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    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    Media and Hollywood are glamorous (or thought to be so) and are very competitive.

    But they’re competitive for men too, and don’t attract the Aspy STEM nerds. So all these gorgeous ambitious people are trying to break into work with few openings.

    STEM is less competitive because so many people can’t do the stuff at all.

    Take a counter-example: from my (brief) experience singing in a church choir I saw many people with beautiful voices, able to, say, sing the alto line in harmony just from reading the music. I wasn’t one of those people.

    So the ability to sing is far more widespread than job openings for singers.

    But there’s still demand for STEM jobs, because the ability is not as widespread and there’s lots of openings.

    Maybe in the future AI will reduce the demand, but we’re not there yet.

    But it must savage trying to break into Hollywood. Losers may be resentful.
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  27. @sabril
    I think the critical factor is eager young women.

    In this regard, the story of Glenn Thrush is instructive. Allegedly, he was out drinking with a group of reporters; the crowd dwindled down to him and a young woman (who happened to be wearing a miniskirt); he made a pass at her by putting his hand on her bare thigh and trying to kiss her; she rebuffed him. In the article, he is described as "the kind of seasoned journalist who would be good to know"

    As LotB pointed out, if Thrush had nothing to offer, it's extremely unlikely that this girl would have hung around; she could have easily left when the gathering was breaking up.

    Of course journalism is a competitive industry and it's flooded with young women who are trying to make it. It seems that a lot of young women, either instinctively or consciously or both, try to use sex appeal or sex to get ahead. In fact, I am pretty confident that a lot of the so-called victims of these various men were pretty enthusiastic about trading sexual services for advancement.

    These broads want to use sexual appeal to get help in their jobs,but they figure enticement is good enough. They blanch at the idea of delivering the goods. (Didnt Freud make some kind comment about women who will sell themselves but not deliver?)

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    • Replies: @sabril

    These broads want to use sexual appeal to get help in their jobs,but they figure enticement is good enough.
     
    Yeah, I think that's a pretty common scenario, i.e. an attractive woman puts on a little skirt, bats her eyelashes a bit, and men fall over themselves to do stuff for her, subconsciously hoping against hope that she will reward them with sex.

    The PUAs would call that beta-supplication and I think women as a group need to be called out for using their sex appeal to use men. (Not all of them do it, of course, but it's pretty common.)

    What's also annoying is that when a man is the recipient of this sort of attention, he will reasonably see it as a green light to make a sexual advance, which is in fact what Thrush did -- he put his hand on the girl's leg; tried to kiss her; and desisted when his advance was rebuffed. This is completely normal and reasonable behavior and it's pretty lousy of the girl to pretend that she is the victim of sexual misconduct when all that happened is the man called her bluff.

    But anyway, I think it also happens a lot that the girl is willing to deliver the goods and even have a fling with the man in exchange for the opportunities he can offer. But in that case, there will probably be text messages, restaurant receipts, and other evidence which will make it difficult for the girl to turn around and say she was victimized. Heck, there are probably lots of girls out there who are very satisfied with the deal they struck with the Weinsteins and Thrush's of the world.

    So there is a bit of a selection effect in play here.
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  28. It’s really tragic how much harm we collectively did to ourselves and had done to us over the last five decades. The Sexual Revolution seems to be coming to a noisy end right now but the damage will linger for probably another five decades.

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    • Replies: @anonguy

    The Sexual Revolution seems to be coming to a noisy end right now
     
    Definitely agree. Part of that turning going on now.

    but the damage will linger for probably another five decades.
     
    I don't think so. We are expunging our sins with a few ritual human sacrifices. It will run its course, but definitely leave us in a different place.

    Anyhow, society is now just emphasizing the point that it isn't ok to treat women with sexual intention in non-sexual, public environments.

    I'm pretty much ok with that, that has been the standard of gentlemanly conduct for centuries. Nice to have a return to it.

    I can't imagine anyone being against this trend other than weird pervy guys.
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  29. Barnard says:
    @Twinkie

    Women tend to be too impressed by the men on screen and too hell-bent to get themselves on screen.
     
    That is gold. Well-done, sir.

    I would add another industry in which sexual harassment is ripe - politics. Go on the Hill (e.g. Rayburn) and see the legions of young female staffers waiting, waiting to be ever so nearer to centers of power and/or influence.

    Go on the Hill (e.g. Rayburn) and see the legions of young female staffers waiting, waiting to be ever so nearer to centers of power and/or influence.

    When we went on a class trip to Washington our senior year of high school, that is the first thing my friends and I noticed. Every member of Congress had at least one beautiful young women following him around. I would assume the number of men in Congress who have never cheated on their wives is pretty low. I wonder how many of the women in Congress are faithful to their husbands.

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  30. What if they’re just not interested? If you like the Arts better than the Sciences, why shouldn’t you major in them?–Allowing for the fact that there are only so many Art Historian or Classics jobs to go around.

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    • Replies: @nebulafox
    One very interesting thing I've noted, in addition to the gender gap, was that a lot of the women in majors like physics, CS, EE, math, etc, tended to come from cultures (with the reoccurring exception of Israel) that aren't really noted for feminist principles: India, Russia, Iran, China, etc. I even once knew an Indian female computer engineering student on my dorm floor who was studying CE to escape an arranged marriage back home. Don't think she could have done that with a Gender Studies major.

    Some of them were genuinely interested in the subjects of study. But some were absolutely miserable, yet slogging through it anyway. Maybe in a culture where women can't really afford to screw up the chances they get in life, they end up subordinating their own inclinations to pragmatic concerns of achieving a better life for themselves down the line.

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  31. @Heros
    My daughter is in the second year of her 3 year CS Bachelor's degree in a highly rated school where tuition is almost free but entry barriers are very high. In the first year there were 3 women in a class of 32, but one of the other girls didn't pass the exams and the other one dropped out before they started. She completed the first year with a 3.85 GPA at the very head of the class and was told to apply for a scholarship but was turned down because my income/wealth disqualifies her. She is still working 20% for the IT company she has been at for over 5 years.

    This semester she is taking, among other classes including a large IT project, Physics (of course the teacher is covering global warming too), Numerical Analysis and Discrete Logic. The way the system works here is that if you fail a class you can keep repeating it until you pass. It turns out that in these difficult classes there are 3 groups of people: first timers, second timers and third timers who have to repeat the difficult classes.

    Anyway, she overheard a third timer say something to the effect "that's almost as ugly as (my daughter)". She wears no makeup, she has no piercings or tattoo's, and she dresses modestly. This snide remark sent her into a tailspin for a week and my wife had to comfort her over skype a couple of nights in a row. She is nice looking, not fat in anyway, but not skinny either.

    Anyway, the point I am making is that even though she is eating these boy's lunch, the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally. She will never be one of them, no matter how hard she tries.

    The point I am making is that if women want to work in a man's world, they will become hard and calloused too. If they want Sugar and Spice and Everything Nice, then their true enemies are the feminists.

    If your daughter plays her hand carefully, she’ll eventually snag a genius brogrammer who makes enough so that she can stay home with the kids… and she can have a nice side career of her own due to her work ethic and brilliance. This is called hitting the jackpot for women. I and several female relatives have this situation.
    (didn’t mean to refer to myself as brilliant, BTW. But your daughter clearly is.)

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  32. @sabril
    I think the critical factor is eager young women.

    In this regard, the story of Glenn Thrush is instructive. Allegedly, he was out drinking with a group of reporters; the crowd dwindled down to him and a young woman (who happened to be wearing a miniskirt); he made a pass at her by putting his hand on her bare thigh and trying to kiss her; she rebuffed him. In the article, he is described as "the kind of seasoned journalist who would be good to know"

    As LotB pointed out, if Thrush had nothing to offer, it's extremely unlikely that this girl would have hung around; she could have easily left when the gathering was breaking up.

    Of course journalism is a competitive industry and it's flooded with young women who are trying to make it. It seems that a lot of young women, either instinctively or consciously or both, try to use sex appeal or sex to get ahead. In fact, I am pretty confident that a lot of the so-called victims of these various men were pretty enthusiastic about trading sexual services for advancement.

    Interesting about Thrush (what a name!). I wonder in how many of these situations alcohol plays an important part. I remember in my 20′s acting in ways I regret around the opposite sex due to tipsiness.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Thrush has made it entirely clear that these incidents were 100% linked to alcohol - both he and the women involved had imbibed in each case. I'm not sure this is an excuse though - the guy is 50 years old with a wife and kids. It's not like he was some college kid. Just like Charlie Rose (who also drank, BTW) his self image of himself as an irresistible babe magnet outlived the reality (except the fat balding newspaperman Thrush, with his hipster hat and Louis CK goatee was even more gross at 50 than handsome TV star Rose at 70). I'm sure in both their cases, they were sort of shocked when they found out that their act was no longer working on the ladies as it had in the past, even after he had made sure that everyone was suitably loosened up with alcohol - they had hit the male equivalent of "the wall". The routine that had been working so well for decades suddenly wasn't working anymore and their strikeout % was going up up up. Somehow it doesn't occur to these guys that at least some % of 25 year old girls will consider them to be gross rather than sexy no matter how powerful they are and it's time for them to hang up their uniform (or at least go after women who are not young enough to be their daughters ).
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  33. Heros says:
    @27 year old

    Anyway, the point I am making is that even though she is eating these boy’s lunch, the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally.
     
    Being called ugly is not a "slightest snub" to a woman. Attractiveness is part of the core of a woman's value. Getting a 9.0 GPA in computers is not.

    She knows that what really matters is whether men find her attractive and apparently they don't and its normal for that to be a scary and painful realization.

    “Attractiveness is part of the core of a woman’s value”

    That is so Patriarchical, the feminists would claim. But nowhere is it more important than among females themselves where relative beauty largely determines the hierarchy. Women of beauty are able to leverage that beauty in both worlds so that it often becomes a crutch in a way similar to race. It is not surprising that claims of “racism” and “mysogeny” are usually interchangeable.

    My daughter is the only female in her class, so there no competition on that side. And she is in a long term relationship and not interested in boys that are too immature to even complete their homework so they have to repeat one or more times because they are infatuated with computer games and pop culture.

    Vulnerability is important in women being appealing as a mate for a lifetime, because if she is able to ward off and excel in a world inhabited by creeps like Harvey Weinstein or Janet Napolitano then she will lose it. Compassion and empathy are vulnerabilities. Hard ass alpha women are readily available but not very desirable. Mid 30′s, divorced, abortions, children, and a hard life of who knows what. She won’t be vulnerable and likely she will likely be a man-hating feminist.

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  34. Mr. Anon says:
    @Brutusale
    After all the press about what goes on in DC, especially after Monica, how does a parent allow their young offspring, particularly a daughter, to be a party to that den of iniquity?

    After all the press about what goes on in DC, especially after Monica, how does a parent allow their young offspring, particularly a daughter, to be a party to that den of iniquity?

    If not after Monica, then at least after the Chandra Levy affair. I remember reading an article at the time, and some members of the poor girl’s family even knew that she was Gary Condit’s mistress, and it didn’t seem to bother them any.

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  35. It seems to me clear now that the idea that women are attracted to “confident” men is to a certain extent something of a self-reinforcing delusion among men, born out of the innermost desires of their own egos. For the male ego desires not so much to be successful with women—i.e., the plain fact of such success does nothing to satiate it—but to think of oneself as being successful with women, which is a symbolic, mental activity and is not strongly determined by the underlying reality. Indeed, it goes beyond even that; for the idea of being successful with women is itself often just a sort of secondary entailment or side effect of that condition which is truly desired: to be the all-powerful, fearless, and impassible male, which is that state here denoted by the word “confidence.” Thus, whenever a man achieves his long-desired success with women, he inevitably tries to back into this proposition by attributing such success to his confidence—that being his vanity or ego, which also has the effect of linking the outcome entirely to his own greatness—despite the fact that real mechanisms of action were much more complicated, multivariate, uncontrollable, and even unknown to him.

    Among my friends and acquaintances of young men, I have never known one yet who, upon attaining some notable success with a female, did not immediately come to consider himself an expert in the arts of seduction, and whose frequent and unsolicited advice on the subject did not inevitably boil down to some version of “women are attracted to confidence.” A more circumspect view of the matter might have one asking the question that, should this prove to be true, how indeed did it apply in his particular case, since I have known this fellow for years and his confidence level did not seem particularly elevated just prior to his getting his new girlfriend, nor relative to that of the general population. In other words, why him and why now? The facts do not at all seem to support the conjecture that confidence was the causative factor. And yet so regular and so automatic is this refrain that one cannot help but think that it was pre-positioned, “waiting in the wings,” fully formed inside him and only awaiting the occasion of a new girlfriend to spring it upon the world. Thus the conclusion that the girl herself is really of secondary importance. She is only supporting player in some interior egotistic drama, the purpose of which is to enable the man to pay homage to himself, to trot out on stage and say “My confidence won me this.”

    So vicious is the ego that it sacrifices all else to its own self-image. Love, morality, reciprocity, fairness, justice, law—these all become distorted from their original meaning, transvaluated by the ego into means to enhance itself. Egotism is the original breaking of faith with others, the first deception, the primordial betrayal, and the root of all sin. The idea that women—or anybody else—would be attracted specifically to this is almost ludicrous, unless of course their own egos were somehow involved, which is very often the case. But this also forms the basis for the inevitable disappointment and resentment felt by people in such relationships. Whether it takes 2 months or 25 years to come to light, there is no possible organic or meaningful future with someone once the realization is had that “you never loved me.”

    Now, true confidence ought to be attractive, something worthy of affection and devotion. But true confidence looks nothing like its egotistical counterpart, vanity, as the former is revealed only by temptation, poverty, misery, and humiliation, while vanity eschews all these things. Vainglorious confidence contains nothing of actual courage but is rather the stridency of he who believes himself incapable of defeat. It is the confidence of fools, and fools they are, too, who are taken in by it. Courage, as manifested in times of distress, loneliness, and even despair, my exert a sort of maudlin appeal in art and literature but almost nobody wants anything to do with it in real life.

    It ought to be recommended to young men, then, against all the titanic forces of ego raging inside them and around them, to despise the notion that women are attracted to “confidence” (read: vainglorious chicanery) as one of their more loathsome traits. Rather than being taught to play the game, they should be urged to hate it and they should be carefully admonished to repose no trust whatsoever in those women who play along with it. Not many of them will listen, of course, but those who do will be bettered by it and will elevate the culture along with them.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    BTW, we see this same egotism masquerading as confidence in leaders (often in the same individuals who go after the ladies - e.g. John Edwards, but sometime not - e.g. Hitler). Humans have a hard time telling true confidence apart from egotism and are often fooled by scoundrels and sociopaths who exploit this weakness in human nature.
    , @anonguy
    Wow, super post, excellent.
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  36. dearieme says:
    @27 year old

    Anyway, the point I am making is that even though she is eating these boy’s lunch, the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally.
     
    Being called ugly is not a "slightest snub" to a woman. Attractiveness is part of the core of a woman's value. Getting a 9.0 GPA in computers is not.

    She knows that what really matters is whether men find her attractive and apparently they don't and its normal for that to be a scary and painful realization.

    “She knows that what really matters is whether men find her attractive and apparently they don’t”: or perhaps it’s just that one young man, scared of women or jealous of her success, made a disparaging remark. He’s a third timer, for heaven’s sake; his views, real or purported, should just be waved away.

    The remark was only disparaging; it’s the girl who decided that it was hurtful. I’m not sure that she has to become hard and calloused but she does have to grow up a bit.

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  37. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    The bitchy one in LAST DAYS OF DISCO wants to work in TV.

    So many. It leads to whore surplus or whorplus or slut-glut.

    So, all of this this was happening, and most of us had no clue. We were given the Haven Monahan leads. Totally useless.

    But someone stole the leads and passed them all around, and all the dominoes are falling.

    Housing Bubble burst in 2008. Condom Bubble burst this year.

    Did feminists finally lose it cuz Trump won and they see ‘Trump’ in every man who had power over them? Since feminists hang around Lib Democratic men, those men are gonna be vulnerable.

    Also, with so many Jewish guys being charged, the media are gonna be happy to report on goy men to balance things out. Sorry Charlie.

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  38. nebulafox says:
    @Heros
    My daughter is in the second year of her 3 year CS Bachelor's degree in a highly rated school where tuition is almost free but entry barriers are very high. In the first year there were 3 women in a class of 32, but one of the other girls didn't pass the exams and the other one dropped out before they started. She completed the first year with a 3.85 GPA at the very head of the class and was told to apply for a scholarship but was turned down because my income/wealth disqualifies her. She is still working 20% for the IT company she has been at for over 5 years.

    This semester she is taking, among other classes including a large IT project, Physics (of course the teacher is covering global warming too), Numerical Analysis and Discrete Logic. The way the system works here is that if you fail a class you can keep repeating it until you pass. It turns out that in these difficult classes there are 3 groups of people: first timers, second timers and third timers who have to repeat the difficult classes.

    Anyway, she overheard a third timer say something to the effect "that's almost as ugly as (my daughter)". She wears no makeup, she has no piercings or tattoo's, and she dresses modestly. This snide remark sent her into a tailspin for a week and my wife had to comfort her over skype a couple of nights in a row. She is nice looking, not fat in anyway, but not skinny either.

    Anyway, the point I am making is that even though she is eating these boy's lunch, the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally. She will never be one of them, no matter how hard she tries.

    The point I am making is that if women want to work in a man's world, they will become hard and calloused too. If they want Sugar and Spice and Everything Nice, then their true enemies are the feminists.

    There are a lot of reasons I’m genuinely glad I’m male. Some of them are fairly obvious: no pregnancy. No periods. No time-bomb, at least within reason, meaning I can much more easily screw up in life and still get a Phd or work for a startup, one of which I’m doing right now and one of which I’m still hoping I can do. But a rarely stated one is that I’ve noticed that women are really… *vicious* to each other, really mean to each other, in a way that men aren’t. I’m not going to say that being picked on as a guy was fun, but it lacked that sort of personal element of nastiness, that wish to ruin the boy’s life entirely and totally, to it: and strangely enough, I think the physical element of it helped, in terms of getting the feelings out. Once it was over, it was over, and nobody thought about it the next day. I’m pretty sure that had anybody been feeling suicidal, the guys would have backed off. Not so with the women. There are way too many girls cutting themselves these days, and the Internet just makes it worse.

    Anyway, for what it is worth, any woman who is studying CS and physics, I’d be happy to treat to coffee, even without seeing her. Your daughter actually genuinely sounds like the type of woman I’d like to date. But since I’m a weirdo, the stock you should put in that is limited. And you’ve basically hit the nail on the head: I’ve seen it myself with female programmers. That’s why I’m typically rather caustic about Western feminists crowing about “female solidarity”. It seems totally divorced from the reality of how women actually treat each other.

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    • Disagree: Guy de Champlagne
    • Replies: @Guy de Champlagne
    You're deluding yourself by going along with a strain of feminism that strokes your male vanity.
    , @Heros

    "Western feminists crowing about “female solidarity”"
     
    Thats the thing. She is 25, so I told her she should skip the IT career, marry her Banking IT boyfriend, have lots of grand kids for me, and live happily ever after. But no, for some reason she has it in her head that she has to "you go girl" and prove that she can code better than any code slinging java jockey.

    She was raised in a house with heavy feminist influences. My mother, born in '27, was a staunch first wave feminist. My sisters and brothers' wives were second wave. For some reason my daughter feels compelled by generations of older feminists to not only succeed, but to exceed in the mans world, likely because none of them could themselves.
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  39. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Brutusale
    After all the press about what goes on in DC, especially after Monica, how does a parent allow their young offspring, particularly a daughter, to be a party to that den of iniquity?

    After all the press about what goes on in DC, especially after Monica, how does a parent allow their young offspring, particularly a daughter, to be a party to that den of iniquity?

    Are you kidding? Today’s parents, even dads, are perfectly okay with their daughters losing virginity early on, going to spring break and having orgies, and etc. Fathers are supposed to be totally Okay with their girls growing up looking up to Ariana Grande and Kim Kardashian. These are cucked out dads. Also, some dads grew up as horny boomers or cynical X-ers. They have RISKY BUSINESS view of life.

    There used to be a time when men married virgin women.

    Now, most men are married to women who did lots of men before marriage. Kids grow up knowing that their parents had many partners before marriage, so that is the thing. The formula is not search for love, courtship, marriage, and commitment. Marriage is not seen as the main goal of life. Instead, it’s seen as a afterthought, something you settle into after you had all your fun and got bored with it. So, the new way is for a woman to be a whore and screw around and then, once she gets tired with it and wants to have a kid before her womb goes dry, she settles down.

    Of course, not all women act like this — and even some Lib men and women privately frown on such attitude — , but it is the Iconic Norm in our society. Indeed, a parents who wishes their kids to be stick to love, courtship, and marriage are seen as ‘freaks’.

    Vito Corleone had it right. It’s the only way that works for most people, but our society is degenerate.

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    • Replies: @Moses

    Are you kidding? Today's parents, even dads, are perfectly okay with their daughters losing virginity early on, going to spring break and having orgies, and etc. Fathers are supposed to be totally Okay with their girls growing up looking up to Ariana Grande and Kim Kardashian.
     
    This.

    I'm a Gen-X long time expat. Last year I went drinking with an old college buddy I hadn't seen in 10+ years. He has 3 kids now, a very successful businessman. Around the 3rd bottle of wine the topic came around to daughters and how to raise them. I shared something about stressing to my daughter to be modest, not dress like or be a slut, get married by mid-2os to a good man and have a family.

    My buddy's response revealed to me how deeply the degenerate cultural rot has permeated America. He said he would encourage his daughter to have sex with as many men as possible to "sow her wild oats" or somesuch, and that he'd push her to prioritize her career before settling down. I was literally speechless. I didn't know where to begin, he was so far down the rabbit hole. It made me wonder how much his own wife is screwing around on him when he's on the road 10+ days/month.
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  40. nebulafox says:
    @Rosamond Vincy
    What if they're just not interested? If you like the Arts better than the Sciences, why shouldn't you major in them?--Allowing for the fact that there are only so many Art Historian or Classics jobs to go around.

    One very interesting thing I’ve noted, in addition to the gender gap, was that a lot of the women in majors like physics, CS, EE, math, etc, tended to come from cultures (with the reoccurring exception of Israel) that aren’t really noted for feminist principles: India, Russia, Iran, China, etc. I even once knew an Indian female computer engineering student on my dorm floor who was studying CE to escape an arranged marriage back home. Don’t think she could have done that with a Gender Studies major.

    Some of them were genuinely interested in the subjects of study. But some were absolutely miserable, yet slogging through it anyway. Maybe in a culture where women can’t really afford to screw up the chances they get in life, they end up subordinating their own inclinations to pragmatic concerns of achieving a better life for themselves down the line.

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    • Replies: @Fredrik
    There was an interesting documentary on Norwegian TV a couple of years ago called Brainwash(Hjernevask). This very topic was discussed.

    Do have a look. It's begins almost immediately.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E577jhf25t4

    The point is that when men and women can choose freely they will choose stereotypically.

    , @Rosamond Vincy
    That makes sense.
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  41. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @sabril
    I think the critical factor is eager young women.

    In this regard, the story of Glenn Thrush is instructive. Allegedly, he was out drinking with a group of reporters; the crowd dwindled down to him and a young woman (who happened to be wearing a miniskirt); he made a pass at her by putting his hand on her bare thigh and trying to kiss her; she rebuffed him. In the article, he is described as "the kind of seasoned journalist who would be good to know"

    As LotB pointed out, if Thrush had nothing to offer, it's extremely unlikely that this girl would have hung around; she could have easily left when the gathering was breaking up.

    Of course journalism is a competitive industry and it's flooded with young women who are trying to make it. It seems that a lot of young women, either instinctively or consciously or both, try to use sex appeal or sex to get ahead. In fact, I am pretty confident that a lot of the so-called victims of these various men were pretty enthusiastic about trading sexual services for advancement.

    I think the critical factor is eager young women.

    It’s also OVER-COMPENSATION among men.

    Notice that many of these guys were not hot stuff in high school or even college. So, they earned delayed hotness points.

    Take a guy like John Lasseter. Total dork. I doubt if any girl looked at him in high school. I can’t imagine him having the courage to walking up to a girl and asking her out.

    But the guy has a cool idea and makes a lot of money. Suddenly, women pay attention to him. He is one of the hottest people in Hollywood, with hit after hit. So, all of a sudden, he discovers he’s attractive to women. Now, if he used this to good advantage, got a nice wife, and just settled down, then no problem.
    But because of his sudden success and boing-ish fun, he expects more and more women to put to him as well. He wants to over-compensate for what he missed in youth.
    It’s like Tony Montana’s ‘wild and crazy guy’ over-compensation. He ate octopus until it came out of his ears in Cuba. He got tired of living in virtuous poverty of communism. He wants some juicy red steak and a great big pu**y just waiting to get fuc*ed.

    Those who come out of the desert want to drink the entire lake. Those who suffered famine want to eat an entire horse. Those who experienced sex famine — in a culture that says it’s shameful to be virgin or not have tons of gals — go wild when they finally get some pooter(or cooter as the case may be).

    And so many of these guys seem to be over-compensating. In Rose’s case, not so much. He was a handsome guy. But maybe he got more desperate as his looks faded with age.

    A good movie about sexual dynamics of all this is IN THE COMPANY OF MEN by Neil Labute, a kind of Mormon David Mamet.

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    • Replies: @sabril

    Notice that many of these guys were not hot stuff in high school or even college. So, they earned delayed hotness points.
     
    Say what? You are saying that this is more common in Hollywood than in Silicon Valley?
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  42. “Why has the feminism-promoting media industry turned out to be the worst offender in abusing young women?”

    Like Chris Rock said, ‘A man is as faithful as his options’.

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  43. Whiskey says: • Website

    No Steve, I think here you have it wrong. Society changed massively since the 1950s. Specifically female sexual freedom is absolute, (until of course Muslims run everything). Thus women and particularly White women like Emily Lindin seek to maximize female sexual freedom and minimize beta male sexual actions.

    Most women like Lindin would be happy to make beta males even looking at them a criminal offense. Just like the SNL Tom Brady skit. This is because women particularly those just average looking find beta males showing any interest as a mortal insult, as it implies they are on the level (less attractive) of beta males.

    Where women have maximal sexual freedom, any interest shown by beta males implies they are ugly. A beta male just looking at an ordinary women is seen as a signal she’s ugly. Since only the ugliest of women given female sexual freedom would generate beta male interest. Hence the screaming at beta males asking for coffee dates — it implies that the woman looks like Mayim Bialik not Danica McKellar. Its also probably accurate. [Beautiful women know they are beautiful. Giselle Bundchen needs only to look at the mirror to see her beauty -- but those are rarer and rared in a time of obesity]

    By contrast beta males (but not Alphas) seek to restrict female sexuality to maximize beta male provision. Said provision and indeed beta males are what made Western prosperity: science and technology depend on beta male cooperation and dutiful work for its own sake; and the ability for beta males to endure and triumph in horrific shock battle like Okinawa over warrior cultures like herders and nomads. However female sexuality is what it is — and women are united with Alpha males to restrict beta male sexuality and advance female sexuality in tandem with Alpha male sexual freedom.

    Most men being beta don’t want the Playboy Mansion either the icky Hugh Hefner in his eighties or the Hugh in his forties version; most women DO want some variant of that, if nothing else the Warren Beatty version where they can chase Alphas and get a chance at one on the downside of his peak attractiveness. They’d rather have a chance at being Annette Benning than being some ordinary man’s wife.

    Five minutes of Alpha beats fifty years of beta.

    Thus it is in the interest of beta males to vanquish their natural and eternal enemies — women and Alpha males. By restricting the sexual activities of both in favor of beta male provision. Among other things this means restricting welfare to only married women with legitimate children, rewriting divorce and custody laws, and changing social mores. Since this would be the work of centuries and will be fought every step of the way by each generation’s Warren Beattys and Maureen Dowds, it is extremely unlikely to happen and is a fantasy only, not a realistic social/political program.

    The only way forward for beta males then is to treat relationships between the sexes as what it is in the environment of maximum sexual freedom for women and minimal for beta (White) males: transactional, filled with minefields (regret = rape), and one in which being the dominant Alpha is everything and being a beta male cooperative engineer is the mark of loser-dom.

    The revolt against the harassers and rapists in Liberal domains is that of women fed up with men who were situational Alphas but are now edging into beta male territory. Charlie Rose is both old and no longer powerful, ditto Harvey Weinstein and Brett Ratner’s ability to generate female stars is mostly gone. You’ll notice who is not getting hit with allegations: Jay-Z, Barack Obama, George Clooney, Matt Damon, John Mayer, John Legend, the Game, Young Thug, etc. Alphas can do whatever they want …. because they are Alphas. Its only when they get old and beta that women’s desire turns to fury.

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    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    This is one of the better insights into the whole post-Weinstein happenings. Here's the thing: And an Alpha can certainly act any way he wants. Suppose the Alpha happens to be socially awkward? In other words, outwardly he's an alpha but inwardly he's a beta? Wouldn't the fact that he's rich, powerful, good looking, etc overcome his social awkward betaness? The answer would have to be yes, because women would only see the outside package and not notice that he's beta on the inside until after she's committed to the relationship.

    Here's a point: What about Mark Zuckerberg? He's very rich, and very powerful. How come no women have come forward regarding him? Or maybe they just don't see him as an alpha and it simply hasn't occurred to them to charge him with anything? On one level, he's an alpha (money and power) yet on the other, no one would accuse him of being a socially advanced alpha. Perhaps this confusing outward-inward dichotomy only serves to confuse women and so they pass him by. Without realizing that he's one of the richest and most powerful men in the world. I mean Facebook for goodness sakes. More women than men use social media so they certainly have heard of the product. That alone should make one pause as to why they haven't chased after Zuck.

    Example: Look at tennis star Serena Williams. Of all the men she finally married, she married the co-founder of Reddit (mucho mega ca-ching). Not an athlete, and that dude is one of the beta-est looking men around. That's the type of woman who would've gone for Zuckerberg. Give Serena credit. She went for money and saw that co-founder of Reddit is close to being a billionaire. Having that kind of money may indeed impress some women. Guess Serge Brin simply wasn't available and so she had to focus on Reddit instead.
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  44. Fredrik says:
    @nebulafox
    One very interesting thing I've noted, in addition to the gender gap, was that a lot of the women in majors like physics, CS, EE, math, etc, tended to come from cultures (with the reoccurring exception of Israel) that aren't really noted for feminist principles: India, Russia, Iran, China, etc. I even once knew an Indian female computer engineering student on my dorm floor who was studying CE to escape an arranged marriage back home. Don't think she could have done that with a Gender Studies major.

    Some of them were genuinely interested in the subjects of study. But some were absolutely miserable, yet slogging through it anyway. Maybe in a culture where women can't really afford to screw up the chances they get in life, they end up subordinating their own inclinations to pragmatic concerns of achieving a better life for themselves down the line.

    There was an interesting documentary on Norwegian TV a couple of years ago called Brainwash(Hjernevask). This very topic was discussed.

    Do have a look. It’s begins almost immediately.

    The point is that when men and women can choose freely they will choose stereotypically.

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  45. Svigor says:

    CNN Reporter Apologizes for ‘Embarrassing’ Tweet on ‘Drain of Talent’ After Harassment Scandals

    CNN senior reporter Dylan Byers apologized (sort of) on Tuesday night after launching one of the more memorably tone-deaf takes on the current epidemic of sexual harassment allegations against big media figures.

    “Beyond the pain/humiliation women have endured (which is of course the paramount issue), it’s worth taking stock of the incredible drain of talent from media/entertainment taking place right now,” he wrote.

    “Never has so much talent left the industry all at once.”

    White Knights of the Manosphere, Beverly Hills Division: “Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!”

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  46. sabril says:
    @Anon
    I think the critical factor is eager young women.

    It's also OVER-COMPENSATION among men.

    Notice that many of these guys were not hot stuff in high school or even college. So, they earned delayed hotness points.

    Take a guy like John Lasseter. Total dork. I doubt if any girl looked at him in high school. I can't imagine him having the courage to walking up to a girl and asking her out.

    But the guy has a cool idea and makes a lot of money. Suddenly, women pay attention to him. He is one of the hottest people in Hollywood, with hit after hit. So, all of a sudden, he discovers he's attractive to women. Now, if he used this to good advantage, got a nice wife, and just settled down, then no problem.
    But because of his sudden success and boing-ish fun, he expects more and more women to put to him as well. He wants to over-compensate for what he missed in youth.
    It's like Tony Montana's 'wild and crazy guy' over-compensation. He ate octopus until it came out of his ears in Cuba. He got tired of living in virtuous poverty of communism. He wants some juicy red steak and a great big pu**y just waiting to get fuc*ed.

    Those who come out of the desert want to drink the entire lake. Those who suffered famine want to eat an entire horse. Those who experienced sex famine -- in a culture that says it's shameful to be virgin or not have tons of gals -- go wild when they finally get some pooter(or cooter as the case may be).

    And so many of these guys seem to be over-compensating. In Rose's case, not so much. He was a handsome guy. But maybe he got more desperate as his looks faded with age.

    A good movie about sexual dynamics of all this is IN THE COMPANY OF MEN by Neil Labute, a kind of Mormon David Mamet.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kvfCm-rVpQ

    Notice that many of these guys were not hot stuff in high school or even college. So, they earned delayed hotness points.

    Say what? You are saying that this is more common in Hollywood than in Silicon Valley?

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  47. Svigor says:

    No Steve, I think here you have it wrong. Society changed massively since the 1950s. Specifically female sexual freedom is absolute, (until of course Muslims run everything). Thus women and particularly White women like Emily Lindin seek to maximize female sexual freedom and minimize beta male sexual actions.

    It just “changed,” Steve. I mean, it was going one way, and then it decided to go the other. It just happened. Like the tide going out. Or an act of God. Like a lightning strike!

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    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    For a more detailed exposition of the instruments of the changes Whiskey refers to, check out Chateau Heartiste's Six Sirenes of the Sexual Apocalypse. From memory:

    Cheap and relatively effective female contraception
    Female economic self-sufficiency
    Employment laws descriminating against white males
    No-fault divorce
    Relatively cheap and effective remedies for STDs
    Internet pornography
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  48. All those stories about engineers marrying their secretaries made me realize that engineers below the level of Elon Musk don’t have secretaries any more.

    When I entered the workforce in the early 90s, if I needed to be in Nashville for a 9 a.m. meeting on Thursday, I told a secretary as much and an hour later there was an itinerary and a little envelope with plane tickets on my desk.

    Today, I have to make the reservations myself. Not only does it cost the company more per hour, it probably takes more hours, because secretaries did reservations all the time and could pop them out in a hurry, but I don’t do it that frequently and have to pick my way through an ever-changing reservation app. The company would rather I charge $500 to a project than have a secretary charge $50 to overhead.

    I also have to type my own reports, order my own coffee, handle my own IT and phone, and call maintenance when the crapper is backed up. In between the cracks, I design airplane engines.

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    Awww, you really have it tough, don't you?
    , @Diversity Heretic
    I've had similar thoughts about the utility of travel agents.
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  49. @Altai
    True, to have a man actually say something like that out loud in a comment she wasn't supposed to hear (Ie, the person saying it felt it was true and wasn't trying to insult her) is something few women ever have to deal with.

    From other women sure, but to have a guy feel the need to say it out loud would be very painful. Women are by nature and by custom the passive agent in courtship, that has advantages and disadvantages. One of the disadvantages is constantly worrying that nobody will approach you as you become less and less youthful. You can see why women become neurotic when they're suddenly also asked to spend huge amounts of what should be prime courtship time commuting back and forth to college/work and spend time worrying about college/work/career advancement and their female social network without a structured courtship system. A lot of people who should be coming together are drifting past each other every day with nothing so much as a glance between them on the street/public transport.

    Astute comment! Societies traditionally had ways for boys and girls, and then young men and women, to get together in activities that didn’t explicitly involve pairing off. That broke down male shyness and gave women a way of indicating interest without having to run a serious risk of explicit or public rejection. Bar or clubbing scenes are no way to chose a prospective mate and the hazards of looking for romance in the office/work setting are becoming increasingly evident.

    To any men, reading this, I suggest taking a foreign language and perhaps joining a discussion group. I’m in a French language one right now and the ratio is about 4 or 5 women to each man. I’m already married, so I really am in the group to practice my French. But I met my French wife at an Alliance Française event.

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  50. @nebulafox
    There are a lot of reasons I'm genuinely glad I'm male. Some of them are fairly obvious: no pregnancy. No periods. No time-bomb, at least within reason, meaning I can much more easily screw up in life and still get a Phd or work for a startup, one of which I'm doing right now and one of which I'm still hoping I can do. But a rarely stated one is that I've noticed that women are really... *vicious* to each other, really mean to each other, in a way that men aren't. I'm not going to say that being picked on as a guy was fun, but it lacked that sort of personal element of nastiness, that wish to ruin the boy's life entirely and totally, to it: and strangely enough, I think the physical element of it helped, in terms of getting the feelings out. Once it was over, it was over, and nobody thought about it the next day. I'm pretty sure that had anybody been feeling suicidal, the guys would have backed off. Not so with the women. There are way too many girls cutting themselves these days, and the Internet just makes it worse.

    Anyway, for what it is worth, any woman who is studying CS and physics, I'd be happy to treat to coffee, even without seeing her. Your daughter actually genuinely sounds like the type of woman I'd like to date. But since I'm a weirdo, the stock you should put in that is limited. And you've basically hit the nail on the head: I've seen it myself with female programmers. That's why I'm typically rather caustic about Western feminists crowing about "female solidarity". It seems totally divorced from the reality of how women actually treat each other.

    You’re deluding yourself by going along with a strain of feminism that strokes your male vanity.

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  51. Svigor says:

    It does seem likely that the road to the source of the current purge leads through Trump. Big Media, while throwing everything plus the kitchen sink at Trump, really homed in on his pussy-grabbing comments, and briefly, on the ridiculous scrum of accusing witches who appeared out of nowhere days before election day, and disappeared just as quickly afterward. Big Media whipped up a lynch mob, and it turned on them. Weinstein was the trigger that got the ball rolling, and it snowballed from there.

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  52. Svigor says:

    So, maybe this is the biggest instance of Trump’s Luck to date.

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  53. Vinteuil says:
    @Heros
    My daughter is in the second year of her 3 year CS Bachelor's degree in a highly rated school where tuition is almost free but entry barriers are very high. In the first year there were 3 women in a class of 32, but one of the other girls didn't pass the exams and the other one dropped out before they started. She completed the first year with a 3.85 GPA at the very head of the class and was told to apply for a scholarship but was turned down because my income/wealth disqualifies her. She is still working 20% for the IT company she has been at for over 5 years.

    This semester she is taking, among other classes including a large IT project, Physics (of course the teacher is covering global warming too), Numerical Analysis and Discrete Logic. The way the system works here is that if you fail a class you can keep repeating it until you pass. It turns out that in these difficult classes there are 3 groups of people: first timers, second timers and third timers who have to repeat the difficult classes.

    Anyway, she overheard a third timer say something to the effect "that's almost as ugly as (my daughter)". She wears no makeup, she has no piercings or tattoo's, and she dresses modestly. This snide remark sent her into a tailspin for a week and my wife had to comfort her over skype a couple of nights in a row. She is nice looking, not fat in anyway, but not skinny either.

    Anyway, the point I am making is that even though she is eating these boy's lunch, the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally. She will never be one of them, no matter how hard she tries.

    The point I am making is that if women want to work in a man's world, they will become hard and calloused too. If they want Sugar and Spice and Everything Nice, then their true enemies are the feminists.

    “…the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally…”

    Epictetus’ Encheiridion (“Handbook”) might be of help, here. Some relevant passages:

    “Our bodies are not up to us…the things that are not up to us are weak, enslaved, hindered, not our own…if you think that things naturally enslaved are free or that things not your own are your own, you will be thwarted, miserable, and upset, and will blame both gods and men…” (1)

    “What upsets people is not things themselves but their judgments about the things. For example, death is nothing dreadful (or else it would have appeared dreadful to Socrates), but instead the judgment about death that it is dreadful – that is what is dreadful… (5)

    “If someone reports back to you that so-and-so is saying bad things about you, do not reply to them but answer ‘Obviously, he didn’t know my other bad characteristics, since otherwise he wouldn’t just have mentioned these.’” (33)

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    Quoting Epictetus to 21st-Century Americans.

    You might as well try to explain integral calculus to a deer tick.
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  54. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Guy de Champlagne
    Is anyone anywhere making the obvious antifeminist criticism of these men by looking at all the guys who didn't get the job or the promotion because all these shenanigans and talking about punishing all the women who got hired and promoted into the jobs those men should have gotten?

    Is anyone anywhere making the obvious antifeminist criticism of these men by looking at all the guys who didn’t get the job or the promotion because all these shenanigans and talking about punishing all the women who got hired and promoted into the jobs those men should have gotten?

    It’s a game or ‘are you in or are you out’?

    Things just look differently depending whether you’re in or you’re out.

    It’s like hazing. Nasty business, but if it gets you IN to a cool fraternity, it wasn’t humiliation but honor. But if you’re not allowed in, it just seems soooo cruel; humiliation, dammit.

    It’s like the scene in DAZED AND CONFUSED where girls have their own hazing ritual. Michelle Burke(Jodi Kramer) walks up to a girl and asks ‘Are you in or are you out?’

    http://www.moviescriptsandscreenplays.com/BenandMatt/dazedandconfused.html

    SABRINA

    I’m nobody. I mean I wasn’t in the truck.

    JODI

    Are you a freshman?

    SABRINA

    Yeah.

    JODI

    Well are you in or are you out?

    SABRINA

    In.

    As Jodi Kramer walks away with Sabrina, the girls in the background who were not asked to be ‘In’ seem resentful.

    Those who resent those who are In pretend to side with those who are Out, but the moment they are let In, they change their tunes. It’s like all those Progs who are allowed In just play by the globalist narrative set for by the Power. Van Jones the communist goes along with Russia-narrative and shuts up about Palestinians. Indeed, so much of politics isn’t so much about ‘left’ vs ‘right’ but Ins and Outs. I recall this Jewish kid in 8th grade who was so bitter because some popular clique didn’t let him in.. but the moment he was let in, he was yammering about how wonderful those fellas are.

    It’s like what Charlie asks Rob in HIGH FIDELITY. So, ‘are you in or out?’

    This high school mentality never leaves a lot of people, and in some ways, it becomes a bigger issue for those who were NOT popular in high school. They wanna over-compensate later. After all, while others were having fun with sports and cheerleading, they hit the books and looked forward to success in college and profession, and then it’d be revenge of the nerds and nerdettes. It’s like some of the Jewish girls in high school who were total nerdettes later showed up in high reunion all done up babe-like, and they had fancy careers or some such.

    There was a time when such people didn’t bother me as I was impervious to hierarchy stuff and just did my own thing. Rob Gordon says he was never a class warrior, and I can agree with his sentiments. I never hated 80s yuppies even though I didn’t respect them. At the very least, they seemed honest in their materialism and narcissism. So, if they do better in terms of dough, what do I care? Even when I had lefty sympathies, I didn’t much hate the yuppers or the materialists in college who focused on career and money.

    I really began to hate these people and the elites when money was not enough for them. They want privilege and holier-than-thou prestige as proggies. 80s yuppies may have been crass but they weren’t about BS. Their attitude was like the kids in RISKY BUSINESS. Money.
    But 90s yuppies and thereafter in age of Clinton combined 80s materialism with retro-boomer radicalism & PC, and it got sickening. You got all these people so obsessed with money, power, privilege, and status yammering endlessly about how much they ‘care’, and it all comes down to flattering vain homos, crazy trannies, and crass ‘immigrants’ who just wanna leech off the West because they and their kind messed up their own nations.
    For the elites(esp vain wives of rich men), ‘social justice’ is just narcissism. If they really CARE about the poor, they should roll up their sleeves and go help out in poor communities. But all they care for is photo-ops. They wanna appear on Oprah and show off how they’re associated with some save-the-world project. It’s like phony-ass Jane Fonda just calling attention to herself as crusader.

    The elites are no longer content with their yachts. They push agendas that will destroy the West with massive colonization of helot labor and easy votes. I don’t mind elites having much more money — Bill Gates owning a mansion or some outlandish yacht — , but I do mind elites and the managerial class using their money and power to take away the thing that matters most to patriotic Americans: a meaningful sense of nation and history,and also stuff like Freedom of Speech.
    Inequality per se isn’t the problem. The problem is that those who are least equal and have most money will push agenda that will rob the masses of their national property. As long as there is nationalism, even the lowest member of the nation can feel ‘In’ on something? He is an ‘In’ as member of a special nation. But with globalism, the ONLY people who feel IN are those with privilege and status. Rest are just Out, even in their nations of origin. Today, the French, the real French, no longer feel In as a Frenchman. The only way they can feel special or In is as a rich guy or someone with status. Otherwise, he has no more claim to France than newly arrived Muslims and Africans. He has become a stranger in a familiar land.

    A lot of prog SJW types are just hissy wissy because they’re out.. And this feeling of ‘out’ is always relative. After all, there are always more doors that lead into the the Ins of power and privilege. So, if you make it to an Ivy League school, you are ‘In’, but like the movie SOCIAL NETWORK showed — albeit not very honestly — , there are In clubs at Harvard that exclude others. So, even at elite colleges, some are more In than others are. And if you work in the CIA, some guys are more In than others are. So, no matter how In you are, you’re always gonna feel Out relative to someone else. Indeed, paradoxically, those who are most In are gonna feel most Out since they are obsessed with the pissing contest of who is more In than others.

    And for some, there is the Cult of Outness even when they are most In. So, Matthew Weiner is totally In, but his MADMEN riffs on the cult of Wasps as the Eternal In and Jews as Eternal Out. And in a way, there is some psychological truth to this in the Iconic Sense. Wasps have style and looks that will make Jews feel inadequate. No matter how much power Jews have, they see Wasp style and look at the golden ideal. It is forever out of their grasp.

    Of course, in-and-out has sexual as well as social connotations, and it just goes to show how sexuality is a crucial factor in the game of social status.

    One gets the sense that a lot of women who are bitching now are bitter than they were left Out. If all those antics had led them In, they would not be so pissy. If they get in, the men are an ass-et. But if they are left Out, the men are ass-hats. Being ‘in’ means her-ass-ment, sexuality as instrument of status. But being ‘out’ means harassment, sexuality of victim of bad bad men.

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  55. Heros says:
    @nebulafox
    There are a lot of reasons I'm genuinely glad I'm male. Some of them are fairly obvious: no pregnancy. No periods. No time-bomb, at least within reason, meaning I can much more easily screw up in life and still get a Phd or work for a startup, one of which I'm doing right now and one of which I'm still hoping I can do. But a rarely stated one is that I've noticed that women are really... *vicious* to each other, really mean to each other, in a way that men aren't. I'm not going to say that being picked on as a guy was fun, but it lacked that sort of personal element of nastiness, that wish to ruin the boy's life entirely and totally, to it: and strangely enough, I think the physical element of it helped, in terms of getting the feelings out. Once it was over, it was over, and nobody thought about it the next day. I'm pretty sure that had anybody been feeling suicidal, the guys would have backed off. Not so with the women. There are way too many girls cutting themselves these days, and the Internet just makes it worse.

    Anyway, for what it is worth, any woman who is studying CS and physics, I'd be happy to treat to coffee, even without seeing her. Your daughter actually genuinely sounds like the type of woman I'd like to date. But since I'm a weirdo, the stock you should put in that is limited. And you've basically hit the nail on the head: I've seen it myself with female programmers. That's why I'm typically rather caustic about Western feminists crowing about "female solidarity". It seems totally divorced from the reality of how women actually treat each other.

    “Western feminists crowing about “female solidarity””

    Thats the thing. She is 25, so I told her she should skip the IT career, marry her Banking IT boyfriend, have lots of grand kids for me, and live happily ever after. But no, for some reason she has it in her head that she has to “you go girl” and prove that she can code better than any code slinging java jockey.

    She was raised in a house with heavy feminist influences. My mother, born in ’27, was a staunch first wave feminist. My sisters and brothers’ wives were second wave. For some reason my daughter feels compelled by generations of older feminists to not only succeed, but to exceed in the mans world, likely because none of them could themselves.

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  56. @Faraday's Bobcat
    All those stories about engineers marrying their secretaries made me realize that engineers below the level of Elon Musk don't have secretaries any more.

    When I entered the workforce in the early 90s, if I needed to be in Nashville for a 9 a.m. meeting on Thursday, I told a secretary as much and an hour later there was an itinerary and a little envelope with plane tickets on my desk.

    Today, I have to make the reservations myself. Not only does it cost the company more per hour, it probably takes more hours, because secretaries did reservations all the time and could pop them out in a hurry, but I don't do it that frequently and have to pick my way through an ever-changing reservation app. The company would rather I charge $500 to a project than have a secretary charge $50 to overhead.

    I also have to type my own reports, order my own coffee, handle my own IT and phone, and call maintenance when the crapper is backed up. In between the cracks, I design airplane engines.

    Awww, you really have it tough, don’t you?

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  57. @Whiskey
    No Steve, I think here you have it wrong. Society changed massively since the 1950s. Specifically female sexual freedom is absolute, (until of course Muslims run everything). Thus women and particularly White women like Emily Lindin seek to maximize female sexual freedom and minimize beta male sexual actions.

    Most women like Lindin would be happy to make beta males even looking at them a criminal offense. Just like the SNL Tom Brady skit. This is because women particularly those just average looking find beta males showing any interest as a mortal insult, as it implies they are on the level (less attractive) of beta males.

    Where women have maximal sexual freedom, any interest shown by beta males implies they are ugly. A beta male just looking at an ordinary women is seen as a signal she's ugly. Since only the ugliest of women given female sexual freedom would generate beta male interest. Hence the screaming at beta males asking for coffee dates -- it implies that the woman looks like Mayim Bialik not Danica McKellar. Its also probably accurate. [Beautiful women know they are beautiful. Giselle Bundchen needs only to look at the mirror to see her beauty -- but those are rarer and rared in a time of obesity]

    By contrast beta males (but not Alphas) seek to restrict female sexuality to maximize beta male provision. Said provision and indeed beta males are what made Western prosperity: science and technology depend on beta male cooperation and dutiful work for its own sake; and the ability for beta males to endure and triumph in horrific shock battle like Okinawa over warrior cultures like herders and nomads. However female sexuality is what it is -- and women are united with Alpha males to restrict beta male sexuality and advance female sexuality in tandem with Alpha male sexual freedom.

    Most men being beta don't want the Playboy Mansion either the icky Hugh Hefner in his eighties or the Hugh in his forties version; most women DO want some variant of that, if nothing else the Warren Beatty version where they can chase Alphas and get a chance at one on the downside of his peak attractiveness. They'd rather have a chance at being Annette Benning than being some ordinary man's wife.

    Five minutes of Alpha beats fifty years of beta.

    Thus it is in the interest of beta males to vanquish their natural and eternal enemies -- women and Alpha males. By restricting the sexual activities of both in favor of beta male provision. Among other things this means restricting welfare to only married women with legitimate children, rewriting divorce and custody laws, and changing social mores. Since this would be the work of centuries and will be fought every step of the way by each generation's Warren Beattys and Maureen Dowds, it is extremely unlikely to happen and is a fantasy only, not a realistic social/political program.

    The only way forward for beta males then is to treat relationships between the sexes as what it is in the environment of maximum sexual freedom for women and minimal for beta (White) males: transactional, filled with minefields (regret = rape), and one in which being the dominant Alpha is everything and being a beta male cooperative engineer is the mark of loser-dom.

    The revolt against the harassers and rapists in Liberal domains is that of women fed up with men who were situational Alphas but are now edging into beta male territory. Charlie Rose is both old and no longer powerful, ditto Harvey Weinstein and Brett Ratner's ability to generate female stars is mostly gone. You'll notice who is not getting hit with allegations: Jay-Z, Barack Obama, George Clooney, Matt Damon, John Mayer, John Legend, the Game, Young Thug, etc. Alphas can do whatever they want .... because they are Alphas. Its only when they get old and beta that women's desire turns to fury.

    This is one of the better insights into the whole post-Weinstein happenings. Here’s the thing: And an Alpha can certainly act any way he wants. Suppose the Alpha happens to be socially awkward? In other words, outwardly he’s an alpha but inwardly he’s a beta? Wouldn’t the fact that he’s rich, powerful, good looking, etc overcome his social awkward betaness? The answer would have to be yes, because women would only see the outside package and not notice that he’s beta on the inside until after she’s committed to the relationship.

    Here’s a point: What about Mark Zuckerberg? He’s very rich, and very powerful. How come no women have come forward regarding him? Or maybe they just don’t see him as an alpha and it simply hasn’t occurred to them to charge him with anything? On one level, he’s an alpha (money and power) yet on the other, no one would accuse him of being a socially advanced alpha. Perhaps this confusing outward-inward dichotomy only serves to confuse women and so they pass him by. Without realizing that he’s one of the richest and most powerful men in the world. I mean Facebook for goodness sakes. More women than men use social media so they certainly have heard of the product. That alone should make one pause as to why they haven’t chased after Zuck.

    Example: Look at tennis star Serena Williams. Of all the men she finally married, she married the co-founder of Reddit (mucho mega ca-ching). Not an athlete, and that dude is one of the beta-est looking men around. That’s the type of woman who would’ve gone for Zuckerberg. Give Serena credit. She went for money and saw that co-founder of Reddit is close to being a billionaire. Having that kind of money may indeed impress some women. Guess Serge Brin simply wasn’t available and so she had to focus on Reddit instead.

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  58. For years the press has been telling us that industries that hire mostly men—such as computer programming, defense, and the military—must be bad for women.

    Computer programming is bad for women. And everyone else.

    Women don’t go into “STEM” because it’s a bad investment and they know it. Only white and Asian male nerds have a reason other than money for taking the tech route.

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    • Replies: @Carbon blob
    Slightly tangential to your train of thought, but anybody who's worked in a medium to large software company can tell you how overrepresented women are in middle management, for obvious reasons.
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  59. @nebulafox
    One very interesting thing I've noted, in addition to the gender gap, was that a lot of the women in majors like physics, CS, EE, math, etc, tended to come from cultures (with the reoccurring exception of Israel) that aren't really noted for feminist principles: India, Russia, Iran, China, etc. I even once knew an Indian female computer engineering student on my dorm floor who was studying CE to escape an arranged marriage back home. Don't think she could have done that with a Gender Studies major.

    Some of them were genuinely interested in the subjects of study. But some were absolutely miserable, yet slogging through it anyway. Maybe in a culture where women can't really afford to screw up the chances they get in life, they end up subordinating their own inclinations to pragmatic concerns of achieving a better life for themselves down the line.

    That makes sense.

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  60. @sabril

    That should be fairly obvious.
     
    A lot of things are fairly obvious but seem to fall into mainstream society's blind spot. In this case, there has been essentially zero mainstream criticism of these "adventuresses," which is a polite way of referring to whores.

    If gynocentrism weren't so deeply embedded in modern Western culture, it would be pretty shocking, actually. If it's wrong to exchange sex for opportunities, then logically both parties to the transaction are culpable. And yet the men are demonized while the women are defended and excused.

    And yet the men are demonized while the women are defended and excused.

    Because men– white men, at that– are the only adults in the room.

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    • Replies: @sabril

    Because men– white men, at that– are the only adults in the room.
     
    That's true to an extent, but it's not carved in stone anywhere that children cannot be criticized. One thing we can learn from Islam -- they aren't afraid to call a whore a whore.
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  61. sabril says:
    @Father O'Hara
    These broads want to use sexual appeal to get help in their jobs,but they figure enticement is good enough. They blanch at the idea of delivering the goods. (Didnt Freud make some kind comment about women who will sell themselves but not deliver?)

    These broads want to use sexual appeal to get help in their jobs,but they figure enticement is good enough.

    Yeah, I think that’s a pretty common scenario, i.e. an attractive woman puts on a little skirt, bats her eyelashes a bit, and men fall over themselves to do stuff for her, subconsciously hoping against hope that she will reward them with sex.

    The PUAs would call that beta-supplication and I think women as a group need to be called out for using their sex appeal to use men. (Not all of them do it, of course, but it’s pretty common.)

    What’s also annoying is that when a man is the recipient of this sort of attention, he will reasonably see it as a green light to make a sexual advance, which is in fact what Thrush did — he put his hand on the girl’s leg; tried to kiss her; and desisted when his advance was rebuffed. This is completely normal and reasonable behavior and it’s pretty lousy of the girl to pretend that she is the victim of sexual misconduct when all that happened is the man called her bluff.

    But anyway, I think it also happens a lot that the girl is willing to deliver the goods and even have a fling with the man in exchange for the opportunities he can offer. But in that case, there will probably be text messages, restaurant receipts, and other evidence which will make it difficult for the girl to turn around and say she was victimized. Heck, there are probably lots of girls out there who are very satisfied with the deal they struck with the Weinsteins and Thrush’s of the world.

    So there is a bit of a selection effect in play here.

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  62. sabril says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    And yet the men are demonized while the women are defended and excused.
     
    Because men-- white men, at that-- are the only adults in the room.

    Because men– white men, at that– are the only adults in the room.

    That’s true to an extent, but it’s not carved in stone anywhere that children cannot be criticized. One thing we can learn from Islam — they aren’t afraid to call a whore a whore.

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  63. anonguy says:
    @Cagey Beast
    It's really tragic how much harm we collectively did to ourselves and had done to us over the last five decades. The Sexual Revolution seems to be coming to a noisy end right now but the damage will linger for probably another five decades.

    The Sexual Revolution seems to be coming to a noisy end right now

    Definitely agree. Part of that turning going on now.

    but the damage will linger for probably another five decades.

    I don’t think so. We are expunging our sins with a few ritual human sacrifices. It will run its course, but definitely leave us in a different place.

    Anyhow, society is now just emphasizing the point that it isn’t ok to treat women with sexual intention in non-sexual, public environments.

    I’m pretty much ok with that, that has been the standard of gentlemanly conduct for centuries. Nice to have a return to it.

    I can’t imagine anyone being against this trend other than weird pervy guys.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Anti-Semite!!
    , @sabril

    Anyhow, society is now just emphasizing the point that it isn’t ok to treat women with sexual intention in non-sexual, public environments.

    I’m pretty much ok with that, that has been the standard of gentlemanly conduct for centuries. Nice to have a return to it.

    I can’t imagine anyone being against this trend other than weird pervy guys.
     
    If men have to act like gentlemen AND women have to act like ladies, I don't much of a problem. But it's unfair that women get to act like sl*ts and wh*res with no negative consequences while still having the option of turning around and denouncing men for ungentlemanly conduct.

    The only other issue is that society should allow for the possibility that men and women will meet their wives and husbands at work or school. So there needs to be a little latitude for men to make mild advances towards women at school or at work.

    Hope that doesn't make me weird or pervy.
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  64. njguy73 says:
    @Vinteuil
    "...the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally..."

    Epictetus' Encheiridion ("Handbook") might be of help, here. Some relevant passages:

    "Our bodies are not up to us...the things that are not up to us are weak, enslaved, hindered, not our own...if you think that things naturally enslaved are free or that things not your own are your own, you will be thwarted, miserable, and upset, and will blame both gods and men..." (1)

    "What upsets people is not things themselves but their judgments about the things. For example, death is nothing dreadful (or else it would have appeared dreadful to Socrates), but instead the judgment about death that it is dreadful - that is what is dreadful... (5)

    "If someone reports back to you that so-and-so is saying bad things about you, do not reply to them but answer 'Obviously, he didn't know my other bad characteristics, since otherwise he wouldn't just have mentioned these.'" (33)

    Quoting Epictetus to 21st-Century Americans.

    You might as well try to explain integral calculus to a deer tick.

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    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Vinteuil
    Well, that's funny - but not quite on target. As it happens, stoicism seems to strike a chord with a fair number of my students - especially those of East-Asian decent.
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  65. Working in private industry, the dude indeed has it tough. Were he at the U, all of those important tasks outside his job description could be delegated to . . . graduate students.

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  66. In terms of wages and work conditions, its certainly true that women (and men for that matter) are more exploited in female-dominated professions. Studies show that pay drops and work conditions decline as the percentage of women in a profession increases. This is an obvious reason why big business wants more women in the workforce.

    On the other hand, this doesn’t necessarily mean that women will be happier in male dominated professions, which come with different stressers (like the threat of physical violence, having your skills quickly outdated by technology, or falling from a tall building).

    It would be interesting to know what professions are associated with the highest levels of female job satisfaction. I’m guessing jobs like dental assistant or librarian, but I could be wrong.

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  67. Test pilot Chuck Yeager crashed the F-104 Widowmaker, which made for a fabulous scene in the movie The Right Stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rDARfprCww

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  68. @Reg Cæsar

    For years the press has been telling us that industries that hire mostly men—such as computer programming, defense, and the military—must be bad for women.
     
    Computer programming is bad for women. And everyone else.

    Women don't go into "STEM" because it's a bad investment and they know it. Only white and Asian male nerds have a reason other than money for taking the tech route.

    Slightly tangential to your train of thought, but anybody who’s worked in a medium to large software company can tell you how overrepresented women are in middle management, for obvious reasons.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    ...anybody who’s worked in a medium to large software company can tell you how overrepresented women are in middle management, for obvious reasons.
     
    Women in middle management need to do a better job of managing their middles. Walk around the perimeter of the "campus" a few times, eg.
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  69. @Heros
    My daughter is in the second year of her 3 year CS Bachelor's degree in a highly rated school where tuition is almost free but entry barriers are very high. In the first year there were 3 women in a class of 32, but one of the other girls didn't pass the exams and the other one dropped out before they started. She completed the first year with a 3.85 GPA at the very head of the class and was told to apply for a scholarship but was turned down because my income/wealth disqualifies her. She is still working 20% for the IT company she has been at for over 5 years.

    This semester she is taking, among other classes including a large IT project, Physics (of course the teacher is covering global warming too), Numerical Analysis and Discrete Logic. The way the system works here is that if you fail a class you can keep repeating it until you pass. It turns out that in these difficult classes there are 3 groups of people: first timers, second timers and third timers who have to repeat the difficult classes.

    Anyway, she overheard a third timer say something to the effect "that's almost as ugly as (my daughter)". She wears no makeup, she has no piercings or tattoo's, and she dresses modestly. This snide remark sent her into a tailspin for a week and my wife had to comfort her over skype a couple of nights in a row. She is nice looking, not fat in anyway, but not skinny either.

    Anyway, the point I am making is that even though she is eating these boy's lunch, the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally. She will never be one of them, no matter how hard she tries.

    The point I am making is that if women want to work in a man's world, they will become hard and calloused too. If they want Sugar and Spice and Everything Nice, then their true enemies are the feminists.

    “The point I am making is that if women want to work in a man’s world, they will become hard and calloused too. ”

    That was Hitchen’s arguement against working women. As he put it: “It coarsens them.” The trouble is, without any career a women married to a bad man becomes cruelly chained to him, and two incomes are necessary for a reasonable living anyway.

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    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    oddsbodkins:

    Which Hitchens - Peter or Christopher?

    As if I didn't know the answer!
    , @Anonymous

    without any career a women married to a bad man becomes cruelly chained to him,
     
    Not true anymore: divorce is easy and lucrative for women.

    and two incomes are necessary for a reasonable living anyway.
     
    True now and didn't use to be. How and why did this happen?
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  70. What about the Ben Affleck accusations?

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  71. Eagle Eye says:
    @J Grant
    "For example, Ratner, who got his start in showbiz procuring white girls for rap mogul Russell Simmons,.."

    Interestingly Ratner's Hollywood "father figure" was ex Paramount studio boss Robert Evans who is widely thought to have ascended the greasy pole by arranging for actress "introductions" for his own boss Charlie Bluhdorn who owned Gulf and Western.

    Procurement and prostitution. Complementary - ethnic - job advancement strategies.

    That’s why women weren’t allowed on the stage at some periods e.g. in England.

    In other cultures, e.g. in the Far East, actors, acrobats and other entertainers were simply treated as a cast of disreputable prostitutes (of both sexes) – entertaining but socially dangerous – and confined to the margins of society (and their endogamous culture).

    Communist societies were not immune. Remember Brezhnev’s daughter running off with a circus gypsy?

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  72. @Heros
    My daughter is in the second year of her 3 year CS Bachelor's degree in a highly rated school where tuition is almost free but entry barriers are very high. In the first year there were 3 women in a class of 32, but one of the other girls didn't pass the exams and the other one dropped out before they started. She completed the first year with a 3.85 GPA at the very head of the class and was told to apply for a scholarship but was turned down because my income/wealth disqualifies her. She is still working 20% for the IT company she has been at for over 5 years.

    This semester she is taking, among other classes including a large IT project, Physics (of course the teacher is covering global warming too), Numerical Analysis and Discrete Logic. The way the system works here is that if you fail a class you can keep repeating it until you pass. It turns out that in these difficult classes there are 3 groups of people: first timers, second timers and third timers who have to repeat the difficult classes.

    Anyway, she overheard a third timer say something to the effect "that's almost as ugly as (my daughter)". She wears no makeup, she has no piercings or tattoo's, and she dresses modestly. This snide remark sent her into a tailspin for a week and my wife had to comfort her over skype a couple of nights in a row. She is nice looking, not fat in anyway, but not skinny either.

    Anyway, the point I am making is that even though she is eating these boy's lunch, the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally. She will never be one of them, no matter how hard she tries.

    The point I am making is that if women want to work in a man's world, they will become hard and calloused too. If they want Sugar and Spice and Everything Nice, then their true enemies are the feminists.

    Anyway, she overheard a third timer say something to the effect “that’s almost as ugly as (my daughter)”.

    The thing is…that comment could have happened in French class or even at an all-girls college. The fact that its CS certainly means more spergs and loser d-heads than the general population (CS grad here myself! ;) but I wouldn’t generalize that experience as endemic to “STEM”.

    College is the new middle school, and when your daughter is out in the real world, results in a tech field will speak for themselves. She can also start her own company and really get in the driver’s seat if she is smart about things.

    I’d just treat that comment as low-stakes practice for the challenges that lie in wait for any talented future worker…the typical office backbiting, the occasional “HR kamikaze all y’all racist” types that can torpedo a career… and just the general BS that comes with growing up in early 21st century America.

    Main thing I’d worry about is for her to make time for a family when that time comes. The talented frequently forget to do that. But sounds like that will be a different chapter.

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  73. Conversely, just as women got the vote way back in 1870 in the frontier states of Wyoming and Utah because cowboys wanted to encourage schoolmarms to migrate, women tend to be treated rather well by lonely male employees in industries where they are rare.

    Kind of the Heinlan, The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress-Theory of gender dynamics.

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  74. I wider point on the recent rise in sexual harassment reporting.

    While the number of sexual harassment stories in the media has surged over the last few years, the amount of reported sexual harassment hasn’t. For example, one official source in the US says reported sexual harassment reports in the US have gone up 10 percent in the last 20 years. Once you factor in increasing female job market participation and population growth that suggest actual sexual harassment rates have hardly changed (if anything, they probably gone down, since it’s now a lot easier to report it).

    A related point is that sexual harassment stories tend to focus around industries where women are agitating for higher wages or increased female recruitment. For example, just prior to this recent wave of Hollywood sexual abuse scandals, there was a series of stories on female pay rates in Hollywood (note that wages in Hollywood are actually falling at the moment). Now you have female scientists jumping on the bandwagon and going about the high sexual harassment rates in the sciences (which seems highly unlikely, given the number of mild-mannered male introverts in tech jobs).

    However, don’t blame women in general, they aren’t making any more official complaints. Blame the liberal white male media elites like Carlos Slim. They are the ones given this issue the oxygen of publicity. A lot its probably about keeping down male wages and keeping male employees under the thumb.

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  75. Moses says:
    @sabril

    That should be fairly obvious.
     
    A lot of things are fairly obvious but seem to fall into mainstream society's blind spot. In this case, there has been essentially zero mainstream criticism of these "adventuresses," which is a polite way of referring to whores.

    If gynocentrism weren't so deeply embedded in modern Western culture, it would be pretty shocking, actually. If it's wrong to exchange sex for opportunities, then logically both parties to the transaction are culpable. And yet the men are demonized while the women are defended and excused.

    This reminds me of the question “Why do rock stars date models?”

    Answer: Because they can.

    Similarly, “Why do women duck responsibility and agency, benefitting from the “transaction” whilst crying “I’m a victim!” for Pokemon points?

    Answer: Because they can.

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  76. God I love this:

    After my mother was widowed when her Marine first husband was killed in combat on Iwo Jima in early 1945, she found my engineer father. They were married from 1946 until her death in 1998.

    My father wasn’t a genius engineer. His career was spent figuring out how to keep the more brilliant designers’ envelope-pushing airplanes, such as the F-104, from crashing. And he was socially awkward. But he was a good man.

    That is exactly how it is supposed to work. And it is how it has worked. In spite of the hags, whores and harridans of the Left, it still occasionally does work that way, even today.

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  77. Moses says:
    @Anon
    After all the press about what goes on in DC, especially after Monica, how does a parent allow their young offspring, particularly a daughter, to be a party to that den of iniquity?

    Are you kidding? Today's parents, even dads, are perfectly okay with their daughters losing virginity early on, going to spring break and having orgies, and etc. Fathers are supposed to be totally Okay with their girls growing up looking up to Ariana Grande and Kim Kardashian. These are cucked out dads. Also, some dads grew up as horny boomers or cynical X-ers. They have RISKY BUSINESS view of life.

    There used to be a time when men married virgin women.

    Now, most men are married to women who did lots of men before marriage. Kids grow up knowing that their parents had many partners before marriage, so that is the thing. The formula is not search for love, courtship, marriage, and commitment. Marriage is not seen as the main goal of life. Instead, it's seen as a afterthought, something you settle into after you had all your fun and got bored with it. So, the new way is for a woman to be a whore and screw around and then, once she gets tired with it and wants to have a kid before her womb goes dry, she settles down.

    Of course, not all women act like this -- and even some Lib men and women privately frown on such attitude -- , but it is the Iconic Norm in our society. Indeed, a parents who wishes their kids to be stick to love, courtship, and marriage are seen as 'freaks'.

    Vito Corleone had it right. It's the only way that works for most people, but our society is degenerate.

    Are you kidding? Today’s parents, even dads, are perfectly okay with their daughters losing virginity early on, going to spring break and having orgies, and etc. Fathers are supposed to be totally Okay with their girls growing up looking up to Ariana Grande and Kim Kardashian.

    This.

    I’m a Gen-X long time expat. Last year I went drinking with an old college buddy I hadn’t seen in 10+ years. He has 3 kids now, a very successful businessman. Around the 3rd bottle of wine the topic came around to daughters and how to raise them. I shared something about stressing to my daughter to be modest, not dress like or be a slut, get married by mid-2os to a good man and have a family.

    My buddy’s response revealed to me how deeply the degenerate cultural rot has permeated America. He said he would encourage his daughter to have sex with as many men as possible to “sow her wild oats” or somesuch, and that he’d push her to prioritize her career before settling down. I was literally speechless. I didn’t know where to begin, he was so far down the rabbit hole. It made me wonder how much his own wife is screwing around on him when he’s on the road 10+ days/month.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    I shared something about stressing to my daughter to be modest, not dress like or be a slut, get married by mid-2os to a good man and have a family.

    Behaviorist advice can be problematic without characterist development.

    Character has to be developed from within than imposed from the outside.
    Now, in an authoritarian order, it can be imposed, like in Iran, because the penalties are so severe. But in a free society, it's very difficult to apply Goodness externally if it is absent internally in the form of character.

    It's like beauty from within vs from without. For a woman to be truly beautiful, it has to emanate from the inside. She has to eat healthy, exercise, and not take in poison like tobacco, excess sugars, and harmful substances. A woman who puts junk into her system but uses lots of makeup and fancy dress to look good can get away for awhile, but the rot inside will eventually degrade the outside as well. No amount of makeup will save a faced corrupted from within by bad diet choices and intake of bad drugs. It's like, no matter how much one trims or polishes a plant from the outside, it's gonna wither if one pours poison into the soil.
    Merely by eating right, not taking in garbage, and exercising, a woman doesn't have to try to be beautiful. The beauty will just naturally radiate from within.
    It's like a piece of wood. If the core has caught fire, then it will burn of its own accord. If not, you have to keep applying flames onto it. Once you stop, the fire goes out. Fire has to be internal(like with coal) than just external.

    Too many parents neglect the development of inner character but then expect a behaviorist approach that tries to externally advise boys and girls to act properly.

    Now, there is the factor of personality. Some people are naturally more inhibited than others. So, even with same kind of upbringing, they end up differently. It's like Vito Corleone raised both Sonny and Michael, but Sonny couldn't keep his fly zipped whereas Michael was very loyal to one woman at a time. (One could argue he dropped Kay in favor of Apollonia, but he did really fall in love with her.)

    Still, the character has to be developed from within. And then, character alone will serve as a natural inhibitor of reckless or trashy behavior. And it will also lend a sense of perspective of what is truly important and what is trivial. It supports and enforces a sense of moral and cultural hierarchy. And then, the parent doesn't have to stress so much about moral behavior since it is there naturally, emanating from the inside. And this had to be developed over time. It can't be neglected and then fixed with 'good advice' out of the blue. Indeed, 'modesty sounds weak and wimpy as an external behavioral virtue. It implies lack of passion or excitement. But when developed as an inner virtue, it is about dignity, self-respect, and moral compass. It is not a light shone on an object but glow radiating from the object.

    I sort of observed this in my father/sister relationship. In some ways, I thought my father was too libby and permissive. Social scientists speak of natural liberals and natural conservatives, and I can't think of anyone more naturally liberal than him, with a personality like Bill Clinton who just wants to be loved by everyone.

    So, one would think his parenting model was Raising-Whore 101. But wittingly or unwittingly, he planted the seeds that shaped my sister to be a rather dignified person.
    To be sure, it could partly owe to my mother's genes that are ultra-naturally-conservative though apolitical on most matters.
    Still, he was more permissive and tolerant than most parents and was open about all sorts of matters and stuff, and he took us to R-rated movies when we were young because he couldn't stand children's movies. And he let my sister watch TV and listen to pop music and etc., though to be sure, Donna Summer was a classy act compared to whores-on-parade today. Our house was like the greatest free speech zone. Anything could be said or argued.

    So, why didn't my sister turn out to be some trashy whore? I thought about this, and he planted three factors since childhood.
    Real Art. Because my sister was introduced to art via art books of Renaissance greats and modernists, she developed a sense of culture that went higher and deeper than pop crap. Love of literature. Because my sister read Shakespeare and other classics from young age, she knew what real literature is. So, she could enjoy pop stuff like GONE WITH THE WIND but she saw it for what it was.
    She read celebrity mags and had to watch the release of Michael Jackson's new video, but she never took that stuff seriously. She didn't draw 'inspiration' from it. She always saw it as pap. Fun pap but pap. She knew real culture is BROTHERS KARAMAZOV. She could enjoy some trashy movie, but she understood something like TIME OF THE GYPSIES is a real masterpiece.

    So, this sense of hierarchy made her far less vulnerable to the siren song of pop culture trashiness. I think this sense of hierarchy is important. Some parents try to shield their kids from pop culture altogether, but this leads to a forbidden-fruit mindset. But if a sense of cultural hierarchy is developed within the person, he or she can watch and enjoy pop crap but still see it for what it is and not mistake it for meaning or model for life.
    I think a lot of kids without this sense of hierarchy -- and even among privileged families -- just fall for pop crap as their main culture.

    Also, I think 'Family Values ' Conservatives who shield their kids from pop culture and promote 'wholesome innocence' fail to prepare their kids to deal with a complex and tempting world. In some ways, it's better to inoculate kids with some pop culture crap. It makes them immune IF they are also instilled with appreciation for real culture and real values.
    My father got this right about food too, which is a useful analogy. He didn't ban cookies and junk food. He was not a health-food nazi. But he stressed real food and stressed that real joys should come from eating real stuff with nutrient. So, we had a sense of what is real food and what is junk that is enjoyable but should never be eaten like the main course. I think a lot of American kids fail in health because there is no sense of Real Food. They are just allowed to eat junk all day. And since so many are from single-mother household, there isn't much supervision. And these single-mothers are often fatsos and their idea of culture is TV. So, there is an obesity epidemic and diabetes epidemic.

    Another positive effect my father had on my sister is he liked to tell stories of his family and his formative years and how all that fit into the larger history. And so, my sister didn't just identify with pop culture but with a sense of origins, and I think that had a grounding effect on her.

    Take a movie like GHOST WORLD. I like the character Enid, but her father seems to have no meaningful connection with her. He just does his thing, she does her thing and tries to form an identity based on quirks and pop culture. She is Jewish but has no sense of family, ethnic, or cultural roots.
    But she is obviously missing something in life, and part of her attraction to Steve Buscemi character is that he does have a sense of roots. Not his own family or ancestry but in the idea of musical and historical roots.

    Pop Culture is amnesiac and only focused on fashions of the moment. Whatever is 'cool' now. And PC is ashamed of so much of past and just tries to bury it or alter it to fit the Current Year, like BBC's programs making past white Britons into 'diversity'.

    Anyway, my father didn't have to stress sexual morality on my sister because she was instilled with a sense of what really matters, what is higher, what has gravitas. (Apparently not enough because she got on the homomania bandwagon when she joined some dumbass theater in San Francisco, one of the most corrupting places on earth.) So, by planting the right ideas and values, my father didn't have to try to hard to prevent his daughter from dressing and acting a like a whore. An inner compass was there even if not explicitly moralistic.
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  78. @Heros
    My daughter is in the second year of her 3 year CS Bachelor's degree in a highly rated school where tuition is almost free but entry barriers are very high. In the first year there were 3 women in a class of 32, but one of the other girls didn't pass the exams and the other one dropped out before they started. She completed the first year with a 3.85 GPA at the very head of the class and was told to apply for a scholarship but was turned down because my income/wealth disqualifies her. She is still working 20% for the IT company she has been at for over 5 years.

    This semester she is taking, among other classes including a large IT project, Physics (of course the teacher is covering global warming too), Numerical Analysis and Discrete Logic. The way the system works here is that if you fail a class you can keep repeating it until you pass. It turns out that in these difficult classes there are 3 groups of people: first timers, second timers and third timers who have to repeat the difficult classes.

    Anyway, she overheard a third timer say something to the effect "that's almost as ugly as (my daughter)". She wears no makeup, she has no piercings or tattoo's, and she dresses modestly. This snide remark sent her into a tailspin for a week and my wife had to comfort her over skype a couple of nights in a row. She is nice looking, not fat in anyway, but not skinny either.

    Anyway, the point I am making is that even though she is eating these boy's lunch, the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally. She will never be one of them, no matter how hard she tries.

    The point I am making is that if women want to work in a man's world, they will become hard and calloused too. If they want Sugar and Spice and Everything Nice, then their true enemies are the feminists.

    CS students are often so socially inept that just a passing conversation is cringeworthy. I know you have explained to your daughter that this has nothing to do with her, and everything to do with the originator of the comment. But usually, among any CS cohort, there are two or three defective members that have nothing to offer except their ability to write code. For them, every problem is “easy” and if you don’t think so, they will lord it over you. If she can hang in there, there is no upper bound on her opportunities. I have had HR managers tell me they have no open positions, but if I have a woman candidate, they’ll make an exception. And the women I have seen in software are promoted rapidly.

    BTW, I have a math /cs son about to graduate, and I would be happy to set up an arranged marriage. ;-)

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  79. AnonAnon says:

    I confess I’ve been rather shocked at the stories I’ve been reading about. I thought this sort of harassment, outside of Hollywood, was long gone decades ago. I was an engineer for 18 years before quitting to stay home with my kids and the worst “harassment” I had was when I was was a young twenty-something and some older married guy I briefly worked with on a program used to rub my shoulders now and then when he’d visit me at my desk. My sister and sister-in-law are also engineers and I’ve never heard any major stories/complaints from them.

    @Heroes – If your daughter is 25 and has been working for five years in industry then she already knows that men rib and say insulting stuff to each other all the time. They just shake it off and move on. In that aspect, your daughter was accepted as “one of them”. (Moreover, women are even more catty than men. I went into engineering because I was sick of the bitches I dealt with in junior high and high school.) What it sounds like to me is that your daughter’s feelings were hurt because she was insulted by a better-looking, younger guy (a 25 year old is typically done with an undergrad degree). If she had hurt feelings for a week my guess is she has a bit of an interest in this guy. She doesn’t have to become an emasculating ball buster to succeed in the working world but you do have to become assertive. She could have thrown a quip or mild insult back at him (like maybe another guy would have done) to let him know she overheard.

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  80. anonguy says:
    @Anonymous
    How about the great "Hollywood for ugly people" twist of Gillibrand shivving Hillary recently... The young fresh-faced quinquagenarian starlet devouring the 70-year-old wizened cackling ex-marquee goddess, it was like something out of daytime TV. "Thanks for clearing the ramps, sister, and now I don't need you any more!" Also tees up a grand sociological experiment with majority-female military units, if those were ever to exist

    How about the great “Hollywood for ugly people” twist of Gillibrand shivving Hillary recently…

    Ok, but thinking about Hollywood for attractive people, aka Hollywood.

    Now, everybody out there is gorgeous. Except this unending parade of sexual harassment troll guys, who are distinctly unattractive by nearly any measure.

    As they say, when you see a turtle on a fence, ya gotta ask how it got there….

    Anyhow, my thesis is that the ugliness in a Hollywood person is a predictor of sexual harassment behavior.

    Not because of the anecdotal empirical evidence, but simply because they are ugly. It predicts sexual harassment, being ugly and successful in an environment in which physical beauty is prized.

    Any of you guys want to save me the trouble and explain why this is? It couldn’t be any other way.

    Beuhler, Beuhler?

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Gee, this was really not a hard question. The attractive looking people in Hollywood are the ones who appear in front of the camera. Those behind the camera are no better looking than anywhere else.
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  81. Dan Hayes says:
    @oddsbodkins
    "The point I am making is that if women want to work in a man’s world, they will become hard and calloused too. "

    That was Hitchen's arguement against working women. As he put it: "It coarsens them." The trouble is, without any career a women married to a bad man becomes cruelly chained to him, and two incomes are necessary for a reasonable living anyway.

    oddsbodkins:

    Which Hitchens – Peter or Christopher?

    As if I didn’t know the answer!

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  82. @Svigor

    No Steve, I think here you have it wrong. Society changed massively since the 1950s. Specifically female sexual freedom is absolute, (until of course Muslims run everything). Thus women and particularly White women like Emily Lindin seek to maximize female sexual freedom and minimize beta male sexual actions.
     
    It just "changed," Steve. I mean, it was going one way, and then it decided to go the other. It just happened. Like the tide going out. Or an act of God. Like a lightning strike!

    For a more detailed exposition of the instruments of the changes Whiskey refers to, check out Chateau Heartiste’s Six Sirenes of the Sexual Apocalypse. From memory:

    Cheap and relatively effective female contraception
    Female economic self-sufficiency
    Employment laws descriminating against white males
    No-fault divorce
    Relatively cheap and effective remedies for STDs
    Internet pornography

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  83. @Faraday's Bobcat
    All those stories about engineers marrying their secretaries made me realize that engineers below the level of Elon Musk don't have secretaries any more.

    When I entered the workforce in the early 90s, if I needed to be in Nashville for a 9 a.m. meeting on Thursday, I told a secretary as much and an hour later there was an itinerary and a little envelope with plane tickets on my desk.

    Today, I have to make the reservations myself. Not only does it cost the company more per hour, it probably takes more hours, because secretaries did reservations all the time and could pop them out in a hurry, but I don't do it that frequently and have to pick my way through an ever-changing reservation app. The company would rather I charge $500 to a project than have a secretary charge $50 to overhead.

    I also have to type my own reports, order my own coffee, handle my own IT and phone, and call maintenance when the crapper is backed up. In between the cracks, I design airplane engines.

    I’ve had similar thoughts about the utility of travel agents.

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  84. @27 year old

    Anyway, the point I am making is that even though she is eating these boy’s lunch, the slightest snub affects her deeply and personally.
     
    Being called ugly is not a "slightest snub" to a woman. Attractiveness is part of the core of a woman's value. Getting a 9.0 GPA in computers is not.

    She knows that what really matters is whether men find her attractive and apparently they don't and its normal for that to be a scary and painful realization.

    Women are upset by criticisms of their appearance because that’s how they attract men.

    If they can’t attract a man, they won’t have children. Evolutionary dead end.

    Men also have to attract women but the criteria are different. Power, money, being an alpha male are plus points.

    That third timer sounds like a loser. First off he’s not too bright. Likely won’t go far career wise.

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  85. @Big Bill
    From your article:

    Of course, there is little effective solidarity among women in the media business. As a female CNN producer noted:

    There aren’t that many female executive producers. And they’re mean to those girls who are pretty and want to be on television.
     
    This is why the current mass sex hysteria truly puzzles me. All the media women are competing with each other, not with men. They know it. We know it. The smartest move for most girls is to encourage dumber girls to quit and file suit, thereby knocking themselves out of the running, and clearing a spot for the smarter girls to take their place.

    So why are girls -- the pretty and successful ones -- suddenly piling on? What has changed?

    Media and Hollywood are glamorous (or thought to be so) and are very competitive.

    But they’re competitive for men too, and don’t attract the Aspy STEM nerds. So all these gorgeous ambitious people are trying to break into work with few openings.

    STEM is less competitive because so many people can’t do the stuff at all.

    Take a counter-example: from my (brief) experience singing in a church choir I saw many people with beautiful voices, able to, say, sing the alto line in harmony just from reading the music. I wasn’t one of those people.

    So the ability to sing is far more widespread than job openings for singers.

    But there’s still demand for STEM jobs, because the ability is not as widespread and there’s lots of openings.

    Maybe in the future AI will reduce the demand, but we’re not there yet.

    But it must savage trying to break into Hollywood. Losers may be resentful.

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  86. Jack D says:
    @stillCARealist
    Interesting about Thrush (what a name!). I wonder in how many of these situations alcohol plays an important part. I remember in my 20's acting in ways I regret around the opposite sex due to tipsiness.

    Thrush has made it entirely clear that these incidents were 100% linked to alcohol – both he and the women involved had imbibed in each case. I’m not sure this is an excuse though – the guy is 50 years old with a wife and kids. It’s not like he was some college kid. Just like Charlie Rose (who also drank, BTW) his self image of himself as an irresistible babe magnet outlived the reality (except the fat balding newspaperman Thrush, with his hipster hat and Louis CK goatee was even more gross at 50 than handsome TV star Rose at 70). I’m sure in both their cases, they were sort of shocked when they found out that their act was no longer working on the ladies as it had in the past, even after he had made sure that everyone was suitably loosened up with alcohol – they had hit the male equivalent of “the wall”. The routine that had been working so well for decades suddenly wasn’t working anymore and their strikeout % was going up up up. Somehow it doesn’t occur to these guys that at least some % of 25 year old girls will consider them to be gross rather than sexy no matter how powerful they are and it’s time for them to hang up their uniform (or at least go after women who are not young enough to be their daughters ).

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    With Thrush, I kinda disagree. 25 years ago, he probably had even less success with women than he does now. It's just that 25 years ago, if a girl paid attention to him, there was a better chance that she was willing to deliver the goods, so to speak. Because now he has something to offer (or he did until last week) so he attracts more women, both those who want sex with him and those who are just hoping to flirt a bit and use him

    Somehow it doesn’t occur to these guys that at least some % of 25 year old girls will consider them to be gross rather than sexy
     
    Even if a man is 25 years old, if he is not in the top 20% of looks, the majority of 25 year old girls will consider him to be gross.

    Anyway, I think the big problem with alcohol is not so much that it lowers inhibitions (although that's part of the problem) as that it degrades a man's ability to read girls and gauge the likelihood that his pass will be welcome.
    , @anonguy

    I’m sure in both their cases, they were sort of shocked when they found out that their act was no longer working on the ladies as it had in the past, even after he had made sure that everyone was suitably loosened up with alcohol – they had hit the male equivalent of “the wall”. The routine that had been working so well for decades suddenly wasn’t working anymore and their strikeout % was going up up up.
     
    Yeah, and then they need to try harder, seem needier, which seems grosser to the ladies, which makes them more likely to report the guy, just a spiral really.

    It is a conundrum for older guys. Basically, it is creepy for older guys to be hitting on younger women, very unseemly and either makes the guy an icky predator or just an old fool. I think everyone agrees with that.

    Generally, the best strategy with women is to have them throwing themselves at you, makes everything really clear about intent, consensus. And they will if they are interested in you, you just have to ignore them and they will send increasingly strong signals in very short order.

    So that is the interesting part of this sexual harassment scandal. According to PUA theory, all these women should have been tearing their clothes off for Harvey, Charlie, Louis CK, every women whose paths they crossed should have sensed their invincible alphaness, you know, all that...

    But, no, they are acting like teenagers on their first visit to a strip club or something, importuning reluctant woman, promising them trinkets, grabbing asses and giving unwanted, awkward kisses. Having rumors circulate about how creepy they are, etc.

    Really, how pathetic are these guys that this is their "love life"?

    The good news is that women aren't truly attracted by the power/status. Yeah, some of them will corrupt themselves for it, but generally we are seeing that the money/power/status, aka "alphaness", really isn't working for these guys, the women don't love the creepy trolls, who still are acting like needy loser teenage boys.

    This speaks to the basic goodness of women, something that PUA theory denies.

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  87. Jack D says:
    @Intelligent Dasein
    It seems to me clear now that the idea that women are attracted to "confident" men is to a certain extent something of a self-reinforcing delusion among men, born out of the innermost desires of their own egos. For the male ego desires not so much to be successful with women---i.e., the plain fact of such success does nothing to satiate it---but to think of oneself as being successful with women, which is a symbolic, mental activity and is not strongly determined by the underlying reality. Indeed, it goes beyond even that; for the idea of being successful with women is itself often just a sort of secondary entailment or side effect of that condition which is truly desired: to be the all-powerful, fearless, and impassible male, which is that state here denoted by the word "confidence." Thus, whenever a man achieves his long-desired success with women, he inevitably tries to back into this proposition by attributing such success to his confidence---that being his vanity or ego, which also has the effect of linking the outcome entirely to his own greatness---despite the fact that real mechanisms of action were much more complicated, multivariate, uncontrollable, and even unknown to him.

    Among my friends and acquaintances of young men, I have never known one yet who, upon attaining some notable success with a female, did not immediately come to consider himself an expert in the arts of seduction, and whose frequent and unsolicited advice on the subject did not inevitably boil down to some version of "women are attracted to confidence." A more circumspect view of the matter might have one asking the question that, should this prove to be true, how indeed did it apply in his particular case, since I have known this fellow for years and his confidence level did not seem particularly elevated just prior to his getting his new girlfriend, nor relative to that of the general population. In other words, why him and why now? The facts do not at all seem to support the conjecture that confidence was the causative factor. And yet so regular and so automatic is this refrain that one cannot help but think that it was pre-positioned, "waiting in the wings," fully formed inside him and only awaiting the occasion of a new girlfriend to spring it upon the world. Thus the conclusion that the girl herself is really of secondary importance. She is only supporting player in some interior egotistic drama, the purpose of which is to enable the man to pay homage to himself, to trot out on stage and say "My confidence won me this."

    So vicious is the ego that it sacrifices all else to its own self-image. Love, morality, reciprocity, fairness, justice, law---these all become distorted from their original meaning, transvaluated by the ego into means to enhance itself. Egotism is the original breaking of faith with others, the first deception, the primordial betrayal, and the root of all sin. The idea that women---or anybody else---would be attracted specifically to this is almost ludicrous, unless of course their own egos were somehow involved, which is very often the case. But this also forms the basis for the inevitable disappointment and resentment felt by people in such relationships. Whether it takes 2 months or 25 years to come to light, there is no possible organic or meaningful future with someone once the realization is had that "you never loved me."

    Now, true confidence ought to be attractive, something worthy of affection and devotion. But true confidence looks nothing like its egotistical counterpart, vanity, as the former is revealed only by temptation, poverty, misery, and humiliation, while vanity eschews all these things. Vainglorious confidence contains nothing of actual courage but is rather the stridency of he who believes himself incapable of defeat. It is the confidence of fools, and fools they are, too, who are taken in by it. Courage, as manifested in times of distress, loneliness, and even despair, my exert a sort of maudlin appeal in art and literature but almost nobody wants anything to do with it in real life.

    It ought to be recommended to young men, then, against all the titanic forces of ego raging inside them and around them, to despise the notion that women are attracted to "confidence" (read: vainglorious chicanery) as one of their more loathsome traits. Rather than being taught to play the game, they should be urged to hate it and they should be carefully admonished to repose no trust whatsoever in those women who play along with it. Not many of them will listen, of course, but those who do will be bettered by it and will elevate the culture along with them.

    BTW, we see this same egotism masquerading as confidence in leaders (often in the same individuals who go after the ladies – e.g. John Edwards, but sometime not – e.g. Hitler). Humans have a hard time telling true confidence apart from egotism and are often fooled by scoundrels and sociopaths who exploit this weakness in human nature.

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  88. Jack D says:
    @anonguy

    How about the great “Hollywood for ugly people” twist of Gillibrand shivving Hillary recently…
     
    Ok, but thinking about Hollywood for attractive people, aka Hollywood.

    Now, everybody out there is gorgeous. Except this unending parade of sexual harassment troll guys, who are distinctly unattractive by nearly any measure.

    As they say, when you see a turtle on a fence, ya gotta ask how it got there....

    Anyhow, my thesis is that the ugliness in a Hollywood person is a predictor of sexual harassment behavior.

    Not because of the anecdotal empirical evidence, but simply because they are ugly. It predicts sexual harassment, being ugly and successful in an environment in which physical beauty is prized.

    Any of you guys want to save me the trouble and explain why this is? It couldn't be any other way.

    Beuhler, Beuhler?

    Gee, this was really not a hard question. The attractive looking people in Hollywood are the ones who appear in front of the camera. Those behind the camera are no better looking than anywhere else.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The attractive looking people in Hollywood are the ones who appear in front of the camera. Those behind the camera are no better looking than anywhere else.
     
    When the 17-year-old Willow Bay applied for an editorial internship at Seventeen, they said, no you're not. You're going right on the cover.
    , @anonguy

    Gee, this was really not a hard question.
     
    Except for the fact that your answer, below, is wrong.

    The attractive looking people in Hollywood are the ones who appear in front of the camera. Those behind the camera are no better looking than anywhere else.
     
    No, the people behind the camera in Hollywood are generally more attractive than average. That is because of two things, first, that attractiveness is generally a commodity/value in Hollywood and second, that many behind/near the camera are trying to get in front of it.

    Everybody knows this about Hollywood.

    p.s. You're a pretty good commenter but you don't do snark very well. I recommend avoiding it and playing to your strengths.
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  89. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anonguy

    The Sexual Revolution seems to be coming to a noisy end right now
     
    Definitely agree. Part of that turning going on now.

    but the damage will linger for probably another five decades.
     
    I don't think so. We are expunging our sins with a few ritual human sacrifices. It will run its course, but definitely leave us in a different place.

    Anyhow, society is now just emphasizing the point that it isn't ok to treat women with sexual intention in non-sexual, public environments.

    I'm pretty much ok with that, that has been the standard of gentlemanly conduct for centuries. Nice to have a return to it.

    I can't imagine anyone being against this trend other than weird pervy guys.

    Anti-Semite!!

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  90. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @oddsbodkins
    "The point I am making is that if women want to work in a man’s world, they will become hard and calloused too. "

    That was Hitchen's arguement against working women. As he put it: "It coarsens them." The trouble is, without any career a women married to a bad man becomes cruelly chained to him, and two incomes are necessary for a reasonable living anyway.

    without any career a women married to a bad man becomes cruelly chained to him,

    Not true anymore: divorce is easy and lucrative for women.

    and two incomes are necessary for a reasonable living anyway.

    True now and didn’t use to be. How and why did this happen?

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  91. sabril says:
    @Jack D
    Thrush has made it entirely clear that these incidents were 100% linked to alcohol - both he and the women involved had imbibed in each case. I'm not sure this is an excuse though - the guy is 50 years old with a wife and kids. It's not like he was some college kid. Just like Charlie Rose (who also drank, BTW) his self image of himself as an irresistible babe magnet outlived the reality (except the fat balding newspaperman Thrush, with his hipster hat and Louis CK goatee was even more gross at 50 than handsome TV star Rose at 70). I'm sure in both their cases, they were sort of shocked when they found out that their act was no longer working on the ladies as it had in the past, even after he had made sure that everyone was suitably loosened up with alcohol - they had hit the male equivalent of "the wall". The routine that had been working so well for decades suddenly wasn't working anymore and their strikeout % was going up up up. Somehow it doesn't occur to these guys that at least some % of 25 year old girls will consider them to be gross rather than sexy no matter how powerful they are and it's time for them to hang up their uniform (or at least go after women who are not young enough to be their daughters ).

    With Thrush, I kinda disagree. 25 years ago, he probably had even less success with women than he does now. It’s just that 25 years ago, if a girl paid attention to him, there was a better chance that she was willing to deliver the goods, so to speak. Because now he has something to offer (or he did until last week) so he attracts more women, both those who want sex with him and those who are just hoping to flirt a bit and use him

    Somehow it doesn’t occur to these guys that at least some % of 25 year old girls will consider them to be gross rather than sexy

    Even if a man is 25 years old, if he is not in the top 20% of looks, the majority of 25 year old girls will consider him to be gross.

    Anyway, I think the big problem with alcohol is not so much that it lowers inhibitions (although that’s part of the problem) as that it degrades a man’s ability to read girls and gauge the likelihood that his pass will be welcome.

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  92. sabril says:
    @anonguy

    The Sexual Revolution seems to be coming to a noisy end right now
     
    Definitely agree. Part of that turning going on now.

    but the damage will linger for probably another five decades.
     
    I don't think so. We are expunging our sins with a few ritual human sacrifices. It will run its course, but definitely leave us in a different place.

    Anyhow, society is now just emphasizing the point that it isn't ok to treat women with sexual intention in non-sexual, public environments.

    I'm pretty much ok with that, that has been the standard of gentlemanly conduct for centuries. Nice to have a return to it.

    I can't imagine anyone being against this trend other than weird pervy guys.

    Anyhow, society is now just emphasizing the point that it isn’t ok to treat women with sexual intention in non-sexual, public environments.

    I’m pretty much ok with that, that has been the standard of gentlemanly conduct for centuries. Nice to have a return to it.

    I can’t imagine anyone being against this trend other than weird pervy guys.

    If men have to act like gentlemen AND women have to act like ladies, I don’t much of a problem. But it’s unfair that women get to act like sl*ts and wh*res with no negative consequences while still having the option of turning around and denouncing men for ungentlemanly conduct.

    The only other issue is that society should allow for the possibility that men and women will meet their wives and husbands at work or school. So there needs to be a little latitude for men to make mild advances towards women at school or at work.

    Hope that doesn’t make me weird or pervy.

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  93. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Moses

    Are you kidding? Today's parents, even dads, are perfectly okay with their daughters losing virginity early on, going to spring break and having orgies, and etc. Fathers are supposed to be totally Okay with their girls growing up looking up to Ariana Grande and Kim Kardashian.
     
    This.

    I'm a Gen-X long time expat. Last year I went drinking with an old college buddy I hadn't seen in 10+ years. He has 3 kids now, a very successful businessman. Around the 3rd bottle of wine the topic came around to daughters and how to raise them. I shared something about stressing to my daughter to be modest, not dress like or be a slut, get married by mid-2os to a good man and have a family.

    My buddy's response revealed to me how deeply the degenerate cultural rot has permeated America. He said he would encourage his daughter to have sex with as many men as possible to "sow her wild oats" or somesuch, and that he'd push her to prioritize her career before settling down. I was literally speechless. I didn't know where to begin, he was so far down the rabbit hole. It made me wonder how much his own wife is screwing around on him when he's on the road 10+ days/month.

    I shared something about stressing to my daughter to be modest, not dress like or be a slut, get married by mid-2os to a good man and have a family.

    Behaviorist advice can be problematic without characterist development.

    Character has to be developed from within than imposed from the outside.
    Now, in an authoritarian order, it can be imposed, like in Iran, because the penalties are so severe. But in a free society, it’s very difficult to apply Goodness externally if it is absent internally in the form of character.

    It’s like beauty from within vs from without. For a woman to be truly beautiful, it has to emanate from the inside. She has to eat healthy, exercise, and not take in poison like tobacco, excess sugars, and harmful substances. A woman who puts junk into her system but uses lots of makeup and fancy dress to look good can get away for awhile, but the rot inside will eventually degrade the outside as well. No amount of makeup will save a faced corrupted from within by bad diet choices and intake of bad drugs. It’s like, no matter how much one trims or polishes a plant from the outside, it’s gonna wither if one pours poison into the soil.
    Merely by eating right, not taking in garbage, and exercising, a woman doesn’t have to try to be beautiful. The beauty will just naturally radiate from within.
    It’s like a piece of wood. If the core has caught fire, then it will burn of its own accord. If not, you have to keep applying flames onto it. Once you stop, the fire goes out. Fire has to be internal(like with coal) than just external.

    Too many parents neglect the development of inner character but then expect a behaviorist approach that tries to externally advise boys and girls to act properly.

    Now, there is the factor of personality. Some people are naturally more inhibited than others. So, even with same kind of upbringing, they end up differently. It’s like Vito Corleone raised both Sonny and Michael, but Sonny couldn’t keep his fly zipped whereas Michael was very loyal to one woman at a time. (One could argue he dropped Kay in favor of Apollonia, but he did really fall in love with her.)

    Still, the character has to be developed from within. And then, character alone will serve as a natural inhibitor of reckless or trashy behavior. And it will also lend a sense of perspective of what is truly important and what is trivial. It supports and enforces a sense of moral and cultural hierarchy. And then, the parent doesn’t have to stress so much about moral behavior since it is there naturally, emanating from the inside. And this had to be developed over time. It can’t be neglected and then fixed with ‘good advice’ out of the blue. Indeed, ‘modesty sounds weak and wimpy as an external behavioral virtue. It implies lack of passion or excitement. But when developed as an inner virtue, it is about dignity, self-respect, and moral compass. It is not a light shone on an object but glow radiating from the object.

    I sort of observed this in my father/sister relationship. In some ways, I thought my father was too libby and permissive. Social scientists speak of natural liberals and natural conservatives, and I can’t think of anyone more naturally liberal than him, with a personality like Bill Clinton who just wants to be loved by everyone.

    So, one would think his parenting model was Raising-Whore 101. But wittingly or unwittingly, he planted the seeds that shaped my sister to be a rather dignified person.
    To be sure, it could partly owe to my mother’s genes that are ultra-naturally-conservative though apolitical on most matters.
    Still, he was more permissive and tolerant than most parents and was open about all sorts of matters and stuff, and he took us to R-rated movies when we were young because he couldn’t stand children’s movies. And he let my sister watch TV and listen to pop music and etc., though to be sure, Donna Summer was a classy act compared to whores-on-parade today. Our house was like the greatest free speech zone. Anything could be said or argued.

    So, why didn’t my sister turn out to be some trashy whore? I thought about this, and he planted three factors since childhood.
    Real Art. Because my sister was introduced to art via art books of Renaissance greats and modernists, she developed a sense of culture that went higher and deeper than pop crap. Love of literature. Because my sister read Shakespeare and other classics from young age, she knew what real literature is. So, she could enjoy pop stuff like GONE WITH THE WIND but she saw it for what it was.
    She read celebrity mags and had to watch the release of Michael Jackson’s new video, but she never took that stuff seriously. She didn’t draw ‘inspiration’ from it. She always saw it as pap. Fun pap but pap. She knew real culture is BROTHERS KARAMAZOV. She could enjoy some trashy movie, but she understood something like TIME OF THE GYPSIES is a real masterpiece.

    So, this sense of hierarchy made her far less vulnerable to the siren song of pop culture trashiness. I think this sense of hierarchy is important. Some parents try to shield their kids from pop culture altogether, but this leads to a forbidden-fruit mindset. But if a sense of cultural hierarchy is developed within the person, he or she can watch and enjoy pop crap but still see it for what it is and not mistake it for meaning or model for life.
    I think a lot of kids without this sense of hierarchy — and even among privileged families — just fall for pop crap as their main culture.

    Also, I think ‘Family Values ‘ Conservatives who shield their kids from pop culture and promote ‘wholesome innocence’ fail to prepare their kids to deal with a complex and tempting world. In some ways, it’s better to inoculate kids with some pop culture crap. It makes them immune IF they are also instilled with appreciation for real culture and real values.
    My father got this right about food too, which is a useful analogy. He didn’t ban cookies and junk food. He was not a health-food nazi. But he stressed real food and stressed that real joys should come from eating real stuff with nutrient. So, we had a sense of what is real food and what is junk that is enjoyable but should never be eaten like the main course. I think a lot of American kids fail in health because there is no sense of Real Food. They are just allowed to eat junk all day. And since so many are from single-mother household, there isn’t much supervision. And these single-mothers are often fatsos and their idea of culture is TV. So, there is an obesity epidemic and diabetes epidemic.

    Another positive effect my father had on my sister is he liked to tell stories of his family and his formative years and how all that fit into the larger history. And so, my sister didn’t just identify with pop culture but with a sense of origins, and I think that had a grounding effect on her.

    Take a movie like GHOST WORLD. I like the character Enid, but her father seems to have no meaningful connection with her. He just does his thing, she does her thing and tries to form an identity based on quirks and pop culture. She is Jewish but has no sense of family, ethnic, or cultural roots.
    But she is obviously missing something in life, and part of her attraction to Steve Buscemi character is that he does have a sense of roots. Not his own family or ancestry but in the idea of musical and historical roots.

    Pop Culture is amnesiac and only focused on fashions of the moment. Whatever is ‘cool’ now. And PC is ashamed of so much of past and just tries to bury it or alter it to fit the Current Year, like BBC’s programs making past white Britons into ‘diversity’.

    Anyway, my father didn’t have to stress sexual morality on my sister because she was instilled with a sense of what really matters, what is higher, what has gravitas. (Apparently not enough because she got on the homomania bandwagon when she joined some dumbass theater in San Francisco, one of the most corrupting places on earth.) So, by planting the right ideas and values, my father didn’t have to try to hard to prevent his daughter from dressing and acting a like a whore. An inner compass was there even if not explicitly moralistic.

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  94. @Carbon blob
    Slightly tangential to your train of thought, but anybody who's worked in a medium to large software company can tell you how overrepresented women are in middle management, for obvious reasons.

    …anybody who’s worked in a medium to large software company can tell you how overrepresented women are in middle management, for obvious reasons.

    Women in middle management need to do a better job of managing their middles. Walk around the perimeter of the “campus” a few times, eg.

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  95. @Jack D
    Gee, this was really not a hard question. The attractive looking people in Hollywood are the ones who appear in front of the camera. Those behind the camera are no better looking than anywhere else.

    The attractive looking people in Hollywood are the ones who appear in front of the camera. Those behind the camera are no better looking than anywhere else.

    When the 17-year-old Willow Bay applied for an editorial internship at Seventeen, they said, no you’re not. You’re going right on the cover.

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  96. anonguy says:
    @Jack D
    Gee, this was really not a hard question. The attractive looking people in Hollywood are the ones who appear in front of the camera. Those behind the camera are no better looking than anywhere else.

    Gee, this was really not a hard question.

    Except for the fact that your answer, below, is wrong.

    The attractive looking people in Hollywood are the ones who appear in front of the camera. Those behind the camera are no better looking than anywhere else.

    No, the people behind the camera in Hollywood are generally more attractive than average. That is because of two things, first, that attractiveness is generally a commodity/value in Hollywood and second, that many behind/near the camera are trying to get in front of it.

    Everybody knows this about Hollywood.

    p.s. You’re a pretty good commenter but you don’t do snark very well. I recommend avoiding it and playing to your strengths.

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  97. anonguy says:
    @Jack D
    Thrush has made it entirely clear that these incidents were 100% linked to alcohol - both he and the women involved had imbibed in each case. I'm not sure this is an excuse though - the guy is 50 years old with a wife and kids. It's not like he was some college kid. Just like Charlie Rose (who also drank, BTW) his self image of himself as an irresistible babe magnet outlived the reality (except the fat balding newspaperman Thrush, with his hipster hat and Louis CK goatee was even more gross at 50 than handsome TV star Rose at 70). I'm sure in both their cases, they were sort of shocked when they found out that their act was no longer working on the ladies as it had in the past, even after he had made sure that everyone was suitably loosened up with alcohol - they had hit the male equivalent of "the wall". The routine that had been working so well for decades suddenly wasn't working anymore and their strikeout % was going up up up. Somehow it doesn't occur to these guys that at least some % of 25 year old girls will consider them to be gross rather than sexy no matter how powerful they are and it's time for them to hang up their uniform (or at least go after women who are not young enough to be their daughters ).

    I’m sure in both their cases, they were sort of shocked when they found out that their act was no longer working on the ladies as it had in the past, even after he had made sure that everyone was suitably loosened up with alcohol – they had hit the male equivalent of “the wall”. The routine that had been working so well for decades suddenly wasn’t working anymore and their strikeout % was going up up up.

    Yeah, and then they need to try harder, seem needier, which seems grosser to the ladies, which makes them more likely to report the guy, just a spiral really.

    It is a conundrum for older guys. Basically, it is creepy for older guys to be hitting on younger women, very unseemly and either makes the guy an icky predator or just an old fool. I think everyone agrees with that.

    Generally, the best strategy with women is to have them throwing themselves at you, makes everything really clear about intent, consensus. And they will if they are interested in you, you just have to ignore them and they will send increasingly strong signals in very short order.

    So that is the interesting part of this sexual harassment scandal. According to PUA theory, all these women should have been tearing their clothes off for Harvey, Charlie, Louis CK, every women whose paths they crossed should have sensed their invincible alphaness, you know, all that…

    But, no, they are acting like teenagers on their first visit to a strip club or something, importuning reluctant woman, promising them trinkets, grabbing asses and giving unwanted, awkward kisses. Having rumors circulate about how creepy they are, etc.

    Really, how pathetic are these guys that this is their “love life”?

    The good news is that women aren’t truly attracted by the power/status. Yeah, some of them will corrupt themselves for it, but generally we are seeing that the money/power/status, aka “alphaness”, really isn’t working for these guys, the women don’t love the creepy trolls, who still are acting like needy loser teenage boys.

    This speaks to the basic goodness of women, something that PUA theory denies.

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  98. anonguy says:
    @Intelligent Dasein
    It seems to me clear now that the idea that women are attracted to "confident" men is to a certain extent something of a self-reinforcing delusion among men, born out of the innermost desires of their own egos. For the male ego desires not so much to be successful with women---i.e., the plain fact of such success does nothing to satiate it---but to think of oneself as being successful with women, which is a symbolic, mental activity and is not strongly determined by the underlying reality. Indeed, it goes beyond even that; for the idea of being successful with women is itself often just a sort of secondary entailment or side effect of that condition which is truly desired: to be the all-powerful, fearless, and impassible male, which is that state here denoted by the word "confidence." Thus, whenever a man achieves his long-desired success with women, he inevitably tries to back into this proposition by attributing such success to his confidence---that being his vanity or ego, which also has the effect of linking the outcome entirely to his own greatness---despite the fact that real mechanisms of action were much more complicated, multivariate, uncontrollable, and even unknown to him.

    Among my friends and acquaintances of young men, I have never known one yet who, upon attaining some notable success with a female, did not immediately come to consider himself an expert in the arts of seduction, and whose frequent and unsolicited advice on the subject did not inevitably boil down to some version of "women are attracted to confidence." A more circumspect view of the matter might have one asking the question that, should this prove to be true, how indeed did it apply in his particular case, since I have known this fellow for years and his confidence level did not seem particularly elevated just prior to his getting his new girlfriend, nor relative to that of the general population. In other words, why him and why now? The facts do not at all seem to support the conjecture that confidence was the causative factor. And yet so regular and so automatic is this refrain that one cannot help but think that it was pre-positioned, "waiting in the wings," fully formed inside him and only awaiting the occasion of a new girlfriend to spring it upon the world. Thus the conclusion that the girl herself is really of secondary importance. She is only supporting player in some interior egotistic drama, the purpose of which is to enable the man to pay homage to himself, to trot out on stage and say "My confidence won me this."

    So vicious is the ego that it sacrifices all else to its own self-image. Love, morality, reciprocity, fairness, justice, law---these all become distorted from their original meaning, transvaluated by the ego into means to enhance itself. Egotism is the original breaking of faith with others, the first deception, the primordial betrayal, and the root of all sin. The idea that women---or anybody else---would be attracted specifically to this is almost ludicrous, unless of course their own egos were somehow involved, which is very often the case. But this also forms the basis for the inevitable disappointment and resentment felt by people in such relationships. Whether it takes 2 months or 25 years to come to light, there is no possible organic or meaningful future with someone once the realization is had that "you never loved me."

    Now, true confidence ought to be attractive, something worthy of affection and devotion. But true confidence looks nothing like its egotistical counterpart, vanity, as the former is revealed only by temptation, poverty, misery, and humiliation, while vanity eschews all these things. Vainglorious confidence contains nothing of actual courage but is rather the stridency of he who believes himself incapable of defeat. It is the confidence of fools, and fools they are, too, who are taken in by it. Courage, as manifested in times of distress, loneliness, and even despair, my exert a sort of maudlin appeal in art and literature but almost nobody wants anything to do with it in real life.

    It ought to be recommended to young men, then, against all the titanic forces of ego raging inside them and around them, to despise the notion that women are attracted to "confidence" (read: vainglorious chicanery) as one of their more loathsome traits. Rather than being taught to play the game, they should be urged to hate it and they should be carefully admonished to repose no trust whatsoever in those women who play along with it. Not many of them will listen, of course, but those who do will be bettered by it and will elevate the culture along with them.

    Wow, super post, excellent.

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  99. Vinteuil says:
    @njguy73
    Quoting Epictetus to 21st-Century Americans.

    You might as well try to explain integral calculus to a deer tick.

    Well, that’s funny – but not quite on target. As it happens, stoicism seems to strike a chord with a fair number of my students – especially those of East-Asian decent.

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    That's reassuring.
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  100. njguy73 says:
    @Vinteuil
    Well, that's funny - but not quite on target. As it happens, stoicism seems to strike a chord with a fair number of my students - especially those of East-Asian decent.

    That’s reassuring.

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