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Sailer in Taki's: "A Tale of Two Sisters"
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From my new column in Taki’s Magazine:

A Tale of Two Sisters
by Steve Sailer
August 30, 2017

Much of the mania of the moment stems from a growing crisis of faith among elites over how much longer they can expect the ideological dogmas under which they have prospered so mightily to withstand the onrushing findings of genetic science.

No family illustrates this tension more ironically than the Wojcicki sisters, Susan (the former landlady of Google guys Larry Page and Sergey Brin) and Anne (the former wife of Sergey).

Susan Wojcicki (pronounced Wo-jit-skee) now heads Google’s subsidiary YouTube. This month she has taken the lead in corporate America’s march toward censorship of genetic explanations for sex and race differences, getting Google engineer James Damore fired and installing a system for neutering the impact of politically incorrect videos.

Meanwhile, Anne Wojcicki is the cofounder and CEO of 23andMe, a well-known genetic testing service for quantifying your racial past and what your genes might portend for your future.

Read the whole thing there.

Here’s 23andMe’s racial ancestry report for Anne Wojcicki (Susan Wojcicki’s racial background is presumably similar):

Screenshot 2017-08-30 03.00.13

 
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  1. markflag says:

    Actually her name is mispronounced Wo-jit-skee, a mispronunciation that exhibits a typical White American Female disregard for proper Polish pronunciation. Cultural misappropriation anyone? But perhaps she is genetically unable to make required sounds.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dube
    "Wojcicki" would be pronounced Voy-CHITS-kee.
    , @Hibernian
    For "cki" the proper Polish pronunciation is "ski," but the inproper pronunciation "key" is commonly accepted; the proper pronunciation is really what the person with the name says it is. After a generation or two or three in America, "key" is more common. If it's spelled "ski," on the other hand, it's pronounced "ski."
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  2. Tiny Duck says:

    Statues glorifying dead white makes have no place in a free society. They are e monuments to oppression slavery and privilege

    Read More
    • Replies: @fish

    15 to life…..it just be'n Dindu Graduate School!

    http://www.kansascity.com
    /news/local/crime/article170048557.html


    - Leonard Pitts
     

    , @e
    Get out of your parents' basement, man, and get a life.
    , @unpc downunder
    Right on brother, get rid of those stale pale males from the wrong side of history, and replace them with modern progressives like future leader of the free world, Augustus Zuckerberg.
  3. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    OT: More immigriping… From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.

    http://littleindia.com/m-night-shyamalan-kal-penn-indian-origin-celebrities-slammed-trump/

    From M Night Shyamalan to Kal Penn, Indian-origin Stars Against Trump
    With Padma Lakshmi criticising Trump once again, here is a look at other Indian American celebrities who have condemned POTUS.

    …Indian American model-turned-author Padma Lakshmi recently slammed US President Donald Trump, saying he is a “menace to society”. She was speaking at the 8th Mountain Echoes Literary Festival in Thimphu, Bhutan. This is not the first time the author has lashed out against the US president.

    Last year, during the run-up to the elections, the Variety magazine quoted her as saying: “Even if he wasn’t the racist buffoon that he is making himself out to be, I probably wouldn’t vote for him. But as an immigrant, I obviously don’t see his worldview as mine.”

    She added: “We are a country of immigrants, so to say you should put a wall up or limit certain ethnicities is sort of antithetical to what this country is about. He himself is an immigrant of immigrant descent. Unless you are from the Cherokee nation, your ancestors are immigrants so you may be an umpteenth generation immigrant but there you are, squatting on someone else’s land.”…

    In their own land they’d be squatting and shitting in the street.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Numinous

    OT: More immigriping… From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.
    .
    .
    .
    In their own land they’d be squatting and shitting in the street.
     
    When the British first encountered India, the latter was arguably the more advanced civilization in everything except naval technology. That's why the British bothered to sail halfway around the world; to buy goods they couldn't get back home.

    And, by the way, you all (British, etc.) were shitting in pitchers by your bedsides around that time and for a while to come, so the comparison of pooping habits isn't so flattering to your lot.
    , @Autochthon
    Her statement would be news to the hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions?) of Amerindians who've no ancestors among the Cherokee. I suppose she isn't not entirely awakened yet; perhaps she needs another cup of coffee....

    In any event, many of us do have admixture with Amerindians (though not so many as like to claim so); certainly more of us than of of Hindoos who showed up on airplanes in the past century (i.e., more than zero...).

    I any event, by her lights all nations outside Africa's savannahs* are "nations of immigrants," so she had better get to work chastising her own government about it's extant walls on the Bangladeshi border rather than mine about its merely planned walls.

    *Though presumably that area's original hominid inhabitants have also long since been displaced....
    , @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    "In their own land they’d be squatting and shitting in the street."

    Don't think so! Of course, there are plenty who for reasons only known to them do, but to suggest successful people, just because they are who they are would do so is absurd for the same reason that just because some whites are crack/meth addicts, all whites are the same, which is far from truth.
    , @Anonymous
    Indian PSA: "Take the Poo to the Look"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_peUxE_

    Why do they make so many programmers when they really need plumbers?
    , @AnotherDad

    OT: More immigriping… From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.
     
    Agree on the immigriping. (And Indians are among the worst. Though I know a few Indian Americans who are proud Trump voters.)

    Your statement is clearly not correct. India is the 3rd great civilization, after the West and China. In accomplishment distinctly behind those bookends of Eurasia. But it left the Mesolithic maybe 8000 years ago. It's distinctly a real civilization, not sub-Saharan Africa or anything like it.

    In terms of the pooping on the streets problem ... pooping in the fields is the natural practice for peasants and what they've done everywhere for a very long time. Replaced by the outhouse or chamber pot. Europe prior to the modern era industrial era was pretty hideous in the towns with people dumping their waste in the streets. India's continuing inability--or lack of desire--to prioritize and tackle its basic infrastructure needs in terms of roads, water, sewers, schools now 40+ years after becoming a nuclear weapons state is indeed embarrassing. (Would embarrass me if I was an Indian.)

    I think it says something both about Indians willingness to accept mediocrity and about the priorities you get in a caste stratified "multicultural" society as opposed to a "one people" nation. Of course as we "celebrate diversity" and import it from every benighted corner of the globe we are becoming both more stratified and mediocre ourselves. Our future may well look a lot more like India's--extreme income inequality, sprawling slumy areas, mediocre public services and infrastructure for the masses--if we don't rise up and stop it.
    , @MG
    The comment about Indian civilization exhibits the author's ignorance.

    As for anti-Trump Indian celebs - who cares? There are a good number of Indian Trump supporters here. I am one of them. Here in Silicon Valley, to admit support for Trump in Indian social circles takes a good deal of courage, so the Indian Trumpians tend to be mostly discreet about it. (For the record, I am open about my MAGA leanings.)
    , @Jack D
    Yes, who has not seen that Mesolithic rock pile called the "Taj Mahal"? These people clearly never advanced beyond the stage of crude stone huts.
  4. ic1000 says:

    Steve wrote,

    This month, Susan won the power struggle within Google over software engineer James Damore documenting some of the biological science behind Google’s hiring patterns. (Paradoxically, Damore was fired for defending the hiring practices of Google executives, such as Susan Wojcicki.)

    Discussing or analyzing would be more precise descriptions of Damore’s transgression.

    But then, Steve remedies the problem in the penultimate paragraph by wielding his most famous term, the other N-word.

    Read More
  5. Let’s say one sister is a religious leader and the other is a scientist.

    There is a saying in parts of Europe about priests: “They preach water, but they drink wine.”

    Might that be the case here? Who says Susan believes the crap she preaches? That’s for the flock of sheep who do the work and pay the bills.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    I suppose reasonable doubt could be raised about this, but to me it seems very clear that Sue Wojcicki was personally offended to a great extent by the memo.
  6. Thea says:

    I though Ashkenazi meant 50% Middle Eastern so isn’t she 75% European 25% Middle Eastern?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    A good point.

    It may be that Middle Eastern and Europeans share a lot of genes, but I would have thought there'd be something.
  7. Classic Korean horror reference, easily one of my favorite films of the previous decade.

    Read More
  8. Elsewhere says:

    Anne is more attractive than Susan.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Broski
    Probably a source of their different attitudes toward accepting reality. Presumably they both considered Sergey a catch . . .
  9. Tiny Duck says:

    white Christians the real terrorists in America. Not Muslims. Not BLM. It’s you and your parasitic kids.

    Here is white men can do better

    Use your privilege to create space for others

    Read More
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    What a pussy lmao
    , @Autochthon
    Idris Elba of course issued a similar statement when he refused the rôle of Heimdallr.
    , @MEH 0910
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Skrein#Early_life

    Skrein was born in Camden, London, England, and was raised there and in other London boroughs, Haringey and Islington. He is of Jewish Austrian and English descent.[1]
     
    Ed Skrein could star in "The Susan Wojcicki Story"! Sure, he's part English rather than part Polish, but woke enough!
    , @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    Yes, it is of utmost importance that we honor the race and ethnicities of comic book characters, that is how Hollyweird can do its part to undermine the oppressive hegemony of Evil White Privilege.

    I like when Tiny D*ck lets his mask slip.
    , @Broski
    Dude your flame sucks. Follow whatever Godfrey Elfwick is going by these days for instruction.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Jeremy Lin appreciated it.
    https://twitter.com/JLin7/status/902739657703731200
    , @Tracy
    I think someone left the screen door open; it's awfully gnatty in here.
    , @Olorin
    I'm creating space for this tiny Italian dinosaur.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEPv31_E__4
    , @bored identity
    Would bored identity ever pull the TROLLey level on Tiny D to save a half dozen meaningful conversations?

    Neeeeever;


    Here is black man doing even better by blackity blacksplainin' why " I'm OK, You're Not So Hot" concept is crucial in defense of Cultural Marvelization of Norse- Teutonic Mythological Realm:



    “There has been a big debate about it:
    can a black man play a Nordic character?” Idris Elba told TV Times.


    “Hang about, Thor’s mythical, right?

    Thor has a hammer that flies to him when he clicks his fingers.

    That’s OK, but the colour of my skin is wrong?"

    “I was cast in Thor and I’m cast as a Nordic god,” he said.

    “If you know anything about the Nords, they don’t look like me but there you go."

    " I think that’s a sign of the times for the future. I think we will see multi-level casting.

    I think we will see that, and I think that’s good. "


    http://comicsalliance.com/racists-thor-idris-ebla-racism/

     

    1. ) Original Heimdall from 17. century Icelandic manuscript/ 'picturebook' :

    http://static.newworldencyclopedia.org/b/b3/AM_738_4to_Valh%C3%B6ll.jpg


    2. ) Trans Version of Culturaly Marvelized Heimdall from bored identity's childhood:

    http://www.comicbookreligion.com/img/h/e/Heimdall.jpg


    3.) The Current Century, Full Retard- Marvelized Heimdall as a Magic Nordic Negro and his Rainbow Asgard Autobahn:

    https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/113509/4833937-4507520529-latest

    Bonus:
    ' Only for Ta-Nehisi, Jeet Heer,and Other Genius Kids That Can't Read Good Comic Books And Want To Do Other Things Good Too' - Marvel Alternate Reality That Nobody Buys Anymore (Literally) :

    http://worldofblackheroes.com/2015/05/22/thor-character/
  10. You make a good point!!!

    Over the years Steve has cranked out dozens of published articles and hundreds of block posts rifting on the differences between Christian Guilt and “Jewish Guilt”.

    Perhaps Steve now needs to work the a new vein of gold.

    The difference between Christian Hypocrisy and Jewish Hypocrisy.

    In brief with examples:

    Christian Hypocrisy: Failing to practice what one preaches. Example the Rev. Jimmy Swaggart crying over his porn and whore addictions.

    Jewish Hypocrisy: Failing to preach what one practices. Example Gene Simmons, born Tirat Carmel, of KISS fame and singer and co-composer of the anthem Rock and Roll All Night(and Party Everyday). Gene Simmons of course in his private life has admitted to being a life long teetotaler who thinks that pot and all other drugs are for the goyim, oops I mean morons.

    Of working this vein of gold is precisely what has gotten David Duke in so much trouble over the decades.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

    Of course working this vein of gold is precisely what has gotten David Duke in so much trouble over the decades.
     
    But look at it this way.

    If Steve kicked things up a notch and basically did what David Duke does daily, point out the unique nature of Jewish Hypocrisy, then the ADL and SPLC would have to start calling out Steve Sailer by name for DUKING IT UP.

    That would mean the ADL and SPLC would almost be forced by the even more neurotic SJWs on their left, got to keep one's street cred with the ANTIFA, to work with Silicon Valley de-platform the UNZ review.

    Likewise Ron Unz would be outed as Self-Hating Jew Numero Uno.

    But then Ron Unz has the both the means and motivation to retaliate by making even further contribution to Alt-Right Tech.

    That would be a Bridge Too Far for the Jewish Far Left and the Globalists. Since as we know everybody who is anybody is already reading Steve Sailer & and Unz Review if only so as to not lose complete touch with reality.

    The Unz Review would gain a new huge following from Normies getting their first doses of the red pill and the already rapidly growing millennial and "Generation Z" Alt-Righters who dismiss the Unz Review as too well "Boomer".

    And all the while merely costing Steve and the Unz Review a large portion of their not insignificant hasbara web traffic. Too much reality would damage the sensibility of two many Tel Aviv basement and dingy cubicle dwelling twentysomethings.
    , @Thea
    Simmons has publicly expressed gratitude towards Americans and said he likes us as a people and culture. It's not fashionable to say that with his Hollywood crowd. I'll give him a pass.
    , @bb753
    What about all the groupies he supposedly got intimate with? Maybe he was just not into the "drugs" part of "Sex and Drugs an Rock'n'Roll?

    https://youtu.be/erGNSQMJ79Q
    , @Autochthon
    While I take your general point, I expand upon Thea's defence of Simmons: He has never said anything like "drugs are for goyim." Rather, he and Paul Stanley (also Jewish and using an assumed name to better fit as an entertainer, albeit born in America) are both patriotic, relatively traditional Americans who have repeatedly explained that while they do not themselves smoke, get drunk, etc., they believe any decision to do such things is a personal choice for the individual based upon his own values and preferences, and that they do not judge anyone one way or another who may choose to do these things, except for the (obvious and inarguable) point that doing such things to the detriment of one's health and functioning is inadvisable (a major reason for to their parting ways with Frehley and Criss was those two's problems with substance abuse ...).

    What's more, rock 'n' roll and partying need not involve drugs. Rock 'n' roll is about independence, freedom, dancing, music, and fun whilst letting one's hair down, as it were. The drugs are often coincidental, and that's (in this tee-totaler's opinion) a shame. Furthermore, Kiss' music, including the song you cite, does not glorify drugs (it does contain occasional light-hearted allusions, as with "Cold Gin" and "Detroit Rock City").

  11. MEH 0910 says:
    @ic1000
    Steve wrote,

    This month, Susan won the power struggle within Google over software engineer James Damore documenting some of the biological science behind Google’s hiring patterns. (Paradoxically, Damore was fired for defending the hiring practices of Google executives, such as Susan Wojcicki.)
     
    Discussing or analyzing would be more precise descriptions of Damore's transgression.

    But then, Steve remedies the problem in the penultimate paragraph by wielding his most famous term, the other N-word.

    n******g

    Read More
  12. Mr. Anon says:

    You got to hand it to Sergey Brin, throwing over his wife for a younger and less attractive woman. I guess those Google-glasses double as beer-goggles.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thea
    Youth in and of itself is attractive to men. Blame biology.
    , @Njguy73
    Athletes, actors, and rock stars date hot women. It goes with their need to be noticed.

    Billionaire CEOs date plain women. It goes with their need to keep low profiles. You don't want to be in US Weekly on a regular basis if you have millions of shareholders depending on you.
    , @Abe

    After eight years and two children, the Brin-Wojcicki marriage broke up in 2015 as Sergey’s affair with an ambitious young Google executive, Amanda Rosenberg, became public knowledge. Anne spent 2016 being seen in the company of baseball slugger and fellow biomedical innovation connoisseur Alex Rodriguez
     
    * private jet at Moffett Field: $50 million
    * co-founding the biggest Internet search engine in the world: $40 billion
    * knowing there is 0% chance your 2 kids will wake up in the morning and kiss lips that 8 hours ago were around the thing that was once inside Madonna's thing which once happily housed Dennis Rodman's thing? : priceless
    , @Broski
    She satisfies the Jewish guy's need to marry another Jew AND the white tech dork's recognition that an Asian girl will actually appreciate his masculinity (such as it is). Hot white chicks only use tech dorks, particularly those of the nebbish persuasion, for their money*. Fertile ground for a cuckoo's egg.

    I half kid. Brin seems like a relatively alpha tech dude, and in some of Amanda Rosenberg's google images she's babeish. Mark Zuckerberg, on the other hand...

    *One of many accurate depictions from Curb Your Enthusiasm.

    , @AnotherDad

    You got to hand it to Sergey Brin, throwing over his wife for a younger and less attractive woman. I guess those Google-glasses double as beer-goggles.
     
    Disagree. These things are obviously a matter of taste.

    But I think pretty objectively the Wojcicki sisters are not "attractive" in the looks department. Not "unattractive", just not attractive--very ... average. The eyes and chin are not winners. The only thing that could plausibly makes Anne Wojcicki perhaps a bit better than average is that she doesn't seem to have put on a bunch of weight which is--taking the moms in my scout troop as a decent sample--not something you can say about a good number of even UMC American women these days. Susan to me--going by her recent pics--has not aged well and does not have a face I would like to wake up to in the morning. (I've got a decent sample of 50-something moms in my neighborhood, Susan is average to below average.)

    Amanda Rosenberg on the other hand is--in the pic sample which is presumably her late 20s--not any sort of knockout, but at least hints of being "cute". She has a more explicitly feminine look than the Wojcickis. How she'll look in 10 years at 40, or in 20 years at 50 ... hard to say. But i'd guess--weight control dependent--slightly better looking than the Wojcickis.

    Call the Wojcickis sisters "5"s and Amanda Rosenberg a "6".

    However, that's all just looks. Anne immediately going in search of dark meat, suggests leaving her behind was a good decision. From just the quickest look in response to your post, Amanda Rosenberg strikes me as the "attention whoring" type who has a 1000 pictures of herself on facebook. Brin--who's a reasonably decent looking guy for a Russian Jewish tech nerd--should be able to do much better than either of these women. Even just dating from the staff he should be able to find a young gal who is smart, cute, healthy and with good genes and good character who'll be a high quality wife and mother, assuming he wants to have a second family.
  13. I can hear the powerful now, saying, as they quaff their Dom Perignon and congratulate themselves on how good they have it:

    Will no one rid us of this meddlesome blogger?

    Read More
  14. @anonymous-antimarxist
    You make a good point!!!

    Over the years Steve has cranked out dozens of published articles and hundreds of block posts rifting on the differences between Christian Guilt and "Jewish Guilt".

    Perhaps Steve now needs to work the a new vein of gold.

    The difference between Christian Hypocrisy and Jewish Hypocrisy.

    In brief with examples:

    Christian Hypocrisy: Failing to practice what one preaches. Example the Rev. Jimmy Swaggart crying over his porn and whore addictions.

    Jewish Hypocrisy: Failing to preach what one practices. Example Gene Simmons, born Tirat Carmel, of KISS fame and singer and co-composer of the anthem Rock and Roll All Night(and Party Everyday). Gene Simmons of course in his private life has admitted to being a life long teetotaler who thinks that pot and all other drugs are for the goyim, oops I mean morons.

    Of working this vein of gold is precisely what has gotten David Duke in so much trouble over the decades.

    Of course working this vein of gold is precisely what has gotten David Duke in so much trouble over the decades.

    But look at it this way.

    If Steve kicked things up a notch and basically did what David Duke does daily, point out the unique nature of Jewish Hypocrisy, then the ADL and SPLC would have to start calling out Steve Sailer by name for DUKING IT UP.

    That would mean the ADL and SPLC would almost be forced by the even more neurotic SJWs on their left, got to keep one’s street cred with the ANTIFA, to work with Silicon Valley de-platform the UNZ review.

    Likewise Ron Unz would be outed as Self-Hating Jew Numero Uno.

    But then Ron Unz has the both the means and motivation to retaliate by making even further contribution to Alt-Right Tech.

    That would be a Bridge Too Far for the Jewish Far Left and the Globalists. Since as we know everybody who is anybody is already reading Steve Sailer & and Unz Review if only so as to not lose complete touch with reality.

    The Unz Review would gain a new huge following from Normies getting their first doses of the red pill and the already rapidly growing millennial and “Generation Z” Alt-Righters who dismiss the Unz Review as too well “Boomer”.

    And all the while merely costing Steve and the Unz Review a large portion of their not insignificant hasbara web traffic. Too much reality would damage the sensibility of two many Tel Aviv basement and dingy cubicle dwelling twentysomethings.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Broski
    Deplatforming Steve would cause a disturbance in the force, indeed. 300,000 registered users of Storm Front? Whatever. The ISteve blog? Well, that may get Douthat's attention (and Brooks's, but we all know he's too craven to say anything).
  15. Thea says:
    @Mr. Anon
    You got to hand it to Sergey Brin, throwing over his wife for a younger and less attractive woman. I guess those Google-glasses double as beer-goggles.

    Youth in and of itself is attractive to men. Blame biology.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Flip
    Yep. And not getting fat too. I feel sorry for friends whose wives blimped up as they got older. It would be hard to keep me interested.
  16. Thea says:
    @anonymous-antimarxist
    You make a good point!!!

    Over the years Steve has cranked out dozens of published articles and hundreds of block posts rifting on the differences between Christian Guilt and "Jewish Guilt".

    Perhaps Steve now needs to work the a new vein of gold.

    The difference between Christian Hypocrisy and Jewish Hypocrisy.

    In brief with examples:

    Christian Hypocrisy: Failing to practice what one preaches. Example the Rev. Jimmy Swaggart crying over his porn and whore addictions.

    Jewish Hypocrisy: Failing to preach what one practices. Example Gene Simmons, born Tirat Carmel, of KISS fame and singer and co-composer of the anthem Rock and Roll All Night(and Party Everyday). Gene Simmons of course in his private life has admitted to being a life long teetotaler who thinks that pot and all other drugs are for the goyim, oops I mean morons.

    Of working this vein of gold is precisely what has gotten David Duke in so much trouble over the decades.

    Simmons has publicly expressed gratitude towards Americans and said he likes us as a people and culture. It’s not fashionable to say that with his Hollywood crowd. I’ll give him a pass.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    I seriously doubt many of the kids my age who were huge Kiss fans back in the seventies knew that Gene Simmons and for that matter Paul Stanley were strictly anti-drug and anti-alcohol.

    What they did "know" about Simmons was his famous boasting about how many teen groupies he slept with.

    Gene Simmons is your classic ultra Zionist Neo-Con who sees America as ripe for exploitation as he see fit to full his goals and those of "his people".

    Here is the infamous clip from his hit "reality" cable show "Family Jewels"

    Gene Simmons "That Is What Gentiles Are For" - YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j72hW9RdbdI
    , @Anonymous
    That's because he regards Americans as being on the philosemitic, pro-Israel reservation. The moment they stray off the reservation, he'll have no use for them.

    "Gene Simmons: 'Gentiles are for manual labor'"

    http://video.forward.com/video/Gene-Simmons-Gentiles-are-for-m

    "Gene Simmons On Jews in Football: 'Somebody's Gotta Own the Teams'"

    https://www.tmz.com/2014/03/28/gene-simmons-jews-football-own-teams-la-kiss/
    , @anonymous-antimarxist
    Simmons is your classic smug neocon ultra-zionist who loves America merely for what he and "his people" can exploit from it. You may think that is patriotism but I don't.

    Remember this classic clip from his "reality" cable TV show Gene Simmon's "Family Jewels"

    Gene Simmons "That Is What Gentiles Are For" - YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j72hW9RdbdI

    Very few of the hardcore Kiss fans I went to high school with back in the seventies knew that the real Gene Simmons (along with Paul Stanley?) was an anti-drug and alcohol teetotaler who thought drugs and alcohol were for the weak. What they did hear from Simmons was his boasting about having had sex with thousands of teen groupies most of whom were probably high at the time.

    Likewise lots of goyim Kiss fans have tattoos of the band, especially of Simmons

    But does Gene Simmons have any tattoos???
    https://www.quora.com/What-tattoos-does-Gene-Simmons-have


    Gene Simmons has no tattoos. I believe tattoos are taboo in Judaism.
    But most importantly, since his Mother [whom he adores] survived the Holocaust, getting a tattoo would be in extremely bad taste, nevermind how disrespectful.
    He surely never even CONSIDERED getting a tattoo.
     
  17. matt says:

    I too disapprove of soft-censorship. I disapprove of hard censorship too. But even the hard censorship of Taylor’s video would not have been any great loss to science, given that it is full of nonsense and lies, as I pointed out in considerable detail in comments in another thread.

    As I pointed out there, the biggest problem with the soft-censorship of Taylor’s video is it’s banning of comments, which prevents informed people (like me) from rebutting Taylor’s nonsense and lies in the place where impressionable people (like most of the people who comment here) are most likely to look: directly underneath the video. For this reason, if censorship is to be practiced at all, the hard variety (i.e., taking down the video altogether) is to be preferred.

    I agree that there is in general an unwillingness among environmentalists to discuss the race-IQ question on the merits of the evidence. But the best way hereditarians can combat this is by making better arguments. Pay no attention to the mote of soft-censorship in thy neighbor’s eye; first cast out the beam of nonsense and lies in thine own eye.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Moses
    It's a good thing you're here to enlighten us.
    , @AM

    As I pointed out there, the biggest problem with the soft-censorship of Taylor’s video is it’s banning of comments, which prevents informed people (like me) from rebutting
     
    It also prevents people like me from rebutting your rebuttal, which amounted to: "But Ethiopia (only) had writing (from Egypt), a few stone churches, and two story houses (but not 3, or cathedrals or Damascus steel)! So it's all wrong!"

    Um, no. I'm sure you can fill up volumes that hyperfocus on a particular tree branch while failing to observe the forest that everyone else is talking about.

    At any rate, I am in agreement that Taylor should take your notes on history and fold them in, because in presenting the whole truth, he'll make his pretty compelling arguments stronger.

  18. Kirt says:

    Kind of interesting how neither 23andme nor Ancestry.com are able to distinguish genetically between French and Germans. Given the amount of warfare over the centuries between French and Germans, this belies the always rather dubious assertion that genetically similar people get along better than those with more genetic differences. Our Lord had it right when he said, “A man’s enemies shall be of his own household”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TelfoedJohn
    I'm sure they are able to distinguish between French and German, but choose not too. "What would German ethnic-nationalism lead to," is probably in the back of their mind. But they distinguish Ashkenazi, which following their French-German example, they could have put into a larger unit like Greek-Jewish-Lebanese.
    , @kihowi
    If I can distinguish between a german and frenchman by sight, it's possible to do it with genetics. The technology just doesn't exist yet. I couldn't do it every single time, but I'd beat the hell out of chance.
    , @Alden
    That's very true. One of my siblings DNA came back 30% French/German so it applies to all of us. She did ask about it and was assured that French and Germans have the same DNA.

    They are probably the same mix of indigenous Celt and later German invaders. The Nordic Protestant wing of White Nationalism will never accept that the Latin language non reformation French are the same as their much admired Germans

    Even on amren I've read comments that all French are part African from ancient migration.

  19. Anon says: • Website • Disclaimer

    POC 1 – People of Color

    POC2 – Party of CEO’s

    POC2 in a nutshell:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonym
    Twitter co-founder - "my app elected Trump" basically. That's quite the humblebrag.
    , @Alden
    You mean people of cr*p. What a$$holes liberals are. Colored man, woman or person is a bigoted racial slur.

    But person of color is the proper designation.
  20. Good article, don’t understand this part though:

    And 23andMe analyzes your DNA for its implications not just for your past, but for your future. (It notoriously sells this data to pharmaceutical companies.)

    So that they might cure our diseases? God forbid!

    Read More
  21. Altai says:

    Wow, she triggered 100%, not even the white ‘men’ of Buzzfeed managed that one. Does that make her less diverse and privileged than the two white gentiles in the video below? I mean in moral terms, I know both those guys material living conditions are not much above ‘living in my car’, given they (At least according to 23andMe) have some Sub-Saharan ancestry.

    I also like how the Jewish guy is the only one of the whites who is allowed to say he is proud of his heritage. (Not so sure if he makes other Jews feel less proud though.)

    And because it’s almost relevant the famous video of Ylvis (The wrote ‘What Does The Fox Say’) high-fiving the host of a Norwegian talk show when it’s revealed they’re both 100% non-diverse.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The guys in the first video all seem gay. I kind of hope they are gay, because it would be sad to see heterosexual guys acting so unmanly and like middle school girls.
    , @Grace Jones
    There's a lot of hooey in their claims, like telling the Korean guy he must have had a great-great grandfather who was pure Chinese. This is because of population structure, where the founding Korean population happened to have Chinese genes already, and there hasn't been a pure Chinese in that population for thousands of years. And, the Japanese are in large part descended from a group that was originally in Korea.
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/koreans-not-quite-the-purest-race/
  22. Moses says:
    @matt
    I too disapprove of soft-censorship. I disapprove of hard censorship too. But even the hard censorship of Taylor's video would not have been any great loss to science, given that it is full of nonsense and lies, as I pointed out in considerable detail in comments in another thread.

    As I pointed out there, the biggest problem with the soft-censorship of Taylor's video is it's banning of comments, which prevents informed people (like me) from rebutting Taylor's nonsense and lies in the place where impressionable people (like most of the people who comment here) are most likely to look: directly underneath the video. For this reason, if censorship is to be practiced at all, the hard variety (i.e., taking down the video altogether) is to be preferred.

    I agree that there is in general an unwillingness among environmentalists to discuss the race-IQ question on the merits of the evidence. But the best way hereditarians can combat this is by making better arguments. Pay no attention to the mote of soft-censorship in thy neighbor's eye; first cast out the beam of nonsense and lies in thine own eye.

    It’s a good thing you’re here to enlighten us.

    Read More
  23. As I pointed out there, the biggest problem with the soft-censorship of Taylor’s video is it’s banning of comments, which prevents informed people (like me) from rebutting Taylor’s nonsense and lies in the place where impressionable people (like most of the people who comment here) are most likely to look

    So what’s your take on nature vs nuture and genetic differences in IQ and other traits among the various racial and ethnic groups?

    I think that most people around here ball park that most traits are 50-50 mix of genes and environment, assuming you’re not talking about extreme environments. We also assume differences in average IQ and other traits among various groups.

    That’s the gist of this debate. You spend a lot of time in your comments discussing Taylor’s discussion about sub-Sahara African. However, I’m not sure that many people around here care much about whether they were capable of building two- or three-story houses and pretty churches.

    Read More
    • Replies: @matt
    You can peruse my comment history if you would like to know more about my opinions on this subject (i would bet large sums of money that I know more about it than you've forgotten). But your attitude here is essentially that Taylor should be permitted tell lies without any pushback, because his lies are in the service of The Greater Truth. I disagree.
    , @matt
    Also, from what I've seen of them in pictures, I wouldn't call the monolithic churches of Ethiopia "pretty". "Sublime", perhaps, but not "pretty".
    , @Lurker

    I think that most people around here ball park that most traits are 50-50 mix of genes and environment
     
    I think that's a reasonable starting position. Better than the false 100% biological determinist/blank slate dichotomy.
    , @TelfoedJohn
    The problem with assigning Nature/Nurture percentages is that it leaves no room for the autonomous individual. I would like to think that when I am talking to someone I am expressing MY personality, but what room is there between nature and nurture? Maybe I'm deluded and I am just a puppet of N and N. It makes me think the whole model is wrong. Nature/nurture/Nietzsche.
  24. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    OT – Maybe others have seen this, but I have detected a new narrative coming out of the Houston hurricane. It goes like this. We cannot spend one penny on building Trump’s border wall until we rebuild Houston and the surrounding damaged areas.

    I am willing to bet that Ryan and others will find a way to not fund the wall and will blame it on the need to rebuild the affected areas in Texas.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Forbes
    Another day, another proffered excuse. Yawn. We'll see.

    The thing with the prog-left is that they never run out of demands, complaints, or new rationalizations for following their course of action. In the past, Cuckservatives have given in to the demands, as if satisfaction of the latest demand will finally slake the prog-left thirst. It never does.

    Trump appears of a different mind. Only time will tell.
  25. AndrewR says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    Let's say one sister is a religious leader and the other is a scientist.

    There is a saying in parts of Europe about priests: "They preach water, but they drink wine."

    Might that be the case here? Who says Susan believes the crap she preaches? That's for the flock of sheep who do the work and pay the bills.

    I suppose reasonable doubt could be raised about this, but to me it seems very clear that Sue Wojcicki was personally offended to a great extent by the memo.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    You mean she took it personally? These days it's considered sexist to point that out.
  26. [23andMe] notoriously sells this data to pharmaceutical companies

    How much lower would the cost of sequencing need to go for this to be unnecessary for the company to remain viable?

    I’m assuming most people would only get tested once, so will selling data always be part of the business model?

    Read More
  27. AndrewR says:
    @Tiny Duck
    white Christians the real terrorists in America. Not Muslims. Not BLM. It's you and your parasitic kids.

    Here is white men can do better

    https://twitter.com/edskrein/status/902244967296491520

    Use your privilege to create space for others

    What a pussy lmao

    Read More
  28. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Altai
    Wow, she triggered 100%, not even the white 'men' of Buzzfeed managed that one. Does that make her less diverse and privileged than the two white gentiles in the video below? I mean in moral terms, I know both those guys material living conditions are not much above 'living in my car', given they (At least according to 23andMe) have some Sub-Saharan ancestry.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N06g2kc1Dxo

    I also like how the Jewish guy is the only one of the whites who is allowed to say he is proud of his heritage. (Not so sure if he makes other Jews feel less proud though.)

    And because it's almost relevant the famous video of Ylvis (The wrote 'What Does The Fox Say') high-fiving the host of a Norwegian talk show when it's revealed they're both 100% non-diverse.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzFur_8iHbA&t=0m33s

    The guys in the first video all seem gay. I kind of hope they are gay, because it would be sad to see heterosexual guys acting so unmanly and like middle school girls.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Altai
    I'm afraid not, maybe the Jewish guy, maybe I think he might be straight also, but the others are definitely heterosexual I think. Welcome to the world of New York media hipsters!

    Granted these guys are so unemployable that they only made it as far as Buzzfeed, so maybe they are a very poor impression.

    This is what Buzzfeed-tier gay men look like.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeCUZGRmMt0
  29. Njguy73 says:
    @Mr. Anon
    You got to hand it to Sergey Brin, throwing over his wife for a younger and less attractive woman. I guess those Google-glasses double as beer-goggles.

    Athletes, actors, and rock stars date hot women. It goes with their need to be noticed.

    Billionaire CEOs date plain women. It goes with their need to keep low profiles. You don’t want to be in US Weekly on a regular basis if you have millions of shareholders depending on you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
    So does that make President Trump a billionaire rock star?
    , @Flip
    Plus you want your kids to be smart.
    , @sarahA
    Snapchat CEO Evan Spiegel married Victoria Secret supermodel Miranda Kerr, come on. Everyone loves hot women.
  30. RudyM says:

    As an aside: I did 23andme. If I’m only 99.7% European, will I still be able to live in the coming all-white utopia?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lurker
    Of course.

    A parody of lib/leftard 'racial purity' nonsense.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z8jXpAyWMs

    , @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "If I’m only 99.7% European, will I still be able to live in the coming all-white utopia?"

    As long as you identify with that 99.7%, then yes. Because in the coming [sic] all-white utopia [sic], there will be no glorification of or special treatment for people afflicted with miniscule shreds of non-European DNA.

    Right now, in The Current Year, people will manufacture a Diverse background to rack up official victim Pokémon points (QED Rachel Dozhal, QED Elizabeth Warren) or they will identify with their 0.3% Diverse heritage because the (((gaystream))) media denigrate White people of normal sexuality 24/7/365.

    In the coming [sic] all-white utopia [sic], however, the media will celebrate White people 24/7/365, so The Current Year social pressure stoking a Flight from White will simply not exist.
  31. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    OT – Anybody in GB who wants to see how rapidly London has fallen down the PC trapdoor should watch the first series of The Bill, a police drama set in East End London. A police force made of all White Men save the occasional White WPC. A realistic depiction of race. A background of native faces in areas turd worlded now. It’s on freeview Ch20 every morning.

    One episode , Burning The Books, fratures an outageously funny portrayal of a tribal businessman. I looked on wiki, expecting it to be 1970s, but aired 1985. Boy things changed quickly. I was in nappies when it aired first, but remember later episodes which were way more filtered and die-versified. Makes me lament not being born a decade or two earlier.

    Read More
  32. Altai says:
    @Anonymous
    The guys in the first video all seem gay. I kind of hope they are gay, because it would be sad to see heterosexual guys acting so unmanly and like middle school girls.

    I’m afraid not, maybe the Jewish guy, maybe I think he might be straight also, but the others are definitely heterosexual I think. Welcome to the world of New York media hipsters!

    Granted these guys are so unemployable that they only made it as far as Buzzfeed, so maybe they are a very poor impression.

    This is what Buzzfeed-tier gay men look like.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    at 3:12 in video:

    Lesbian: Whenever I think about gay men having sex, all the time, it's all bent over.

    Gay Guy: It's like this [on all fours] all the time. Let'th have thex. Here you go.

    Ugh.

    , @Anon
    I’m afraid not, maybe the Jewish guy, maybe I think he might be straight also, but the others are definitely heterosexual I think. Welcome to the world of New York media hipsters!

    More like Dipsters.

    They are so boyish and girlish. Like children.
    Bunch of Kidsters.
    , @Anon
    Ewwwww. That is so tootish.
  33. matt says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    As I pointed out there, the biggest problem with the soft-censorship of Taylor’s video is it’s banning of comments, which prevents informed people (like me) from rebutting Taylor’s nonsense and lies in the place where impressionable people (like most of the people who comment here) are most likely to look
     
    So what's your take on nature vs nuture and genetic differences in IQ and other traits among the various racial and ethnic groups?

    I think that most people around here ball park that most traits are 50-50 mix of genes and environment, assuming you're not talking about extreme environments. We also assume differences in average IQ and other traits among various groups.

    That's the gist of this debate. You spend a lot of time in your comments discussing Taylor's discussion about sub-Sahara African. However, I'm not sure that many people around here care much about whether they were capable of building two- or three-story houses and pretty churches.

    You can peruse my comment history if you would like to know more about my opinions on this subject (i would bet large sums of money that I know more about it than you’ve forgotten). But your attitude here is essentially that Taylor should be permitted tell lies without any pushback, because his lies are in the service of The Greater Truth. I disagree.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Regarding Taylor, I agree with you that the comments should be left on. Open debate is good.

    Checked out some of your comments. You definitely have an interest in Africa. Your comments on IQ and genetics are detailed and knowledgeable, but you don't stand up well to counter-arguments from similarly trained opponents. Indeed, you often leave the best retorts unanswered, which isn't a good sign.

    However, I did track down your views on nature vs nurture:


    I can say that at present the balance of evidence suggests that it is more likely than not that, in the same environment, white and black Americans would develop the same phenotypic IQ.

     

    I simply don't understand (yes, I understand that you are extraordinarily intelligent - though only because of environment ;) - and I'm not) how you can make that statement. The evidence points to a significant genetic component to intelligence and that average IQ varies among the different races and ethnicities.

    Commentator res does a nice job of takin you to task:


    Given “same” I take it you are arguing for a 0% genetic contribution. If that is not so please clarify what you meant by that statement.

    I don’t see how you can believe that given the evidence I cited. If nothing else it is absolutely clear that IQ SNPs discovered so far differ in frequency between African and European populations. It is highly unlikely that allows for a genetic contribution of exactly 0.

    Thanks for engaging in a reasonable fashion. Hope you are around for follow up as more genetic data comes in. Would you care to place any bets on the outcome?

     

    Of course, the evidence may change. I'm fine with that. This is one case where confirmation bias isn't an issue; I'd love to be wrong. But the studies that you have cited just don't stand up to the studies that show a genetic component. Luckily, genetic research should give some evidence over the next decade or two, so we can leave our little spat alone and just wait for the data to arrive.
  34. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Googlords fund ‘leftist’ organizations that support corporate monopoly.

    Any dissenters will be Damored.

    The guy who got axed should have stuck to discussing why we need more tranny coders.

    Read More
  35. matt says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    As I pointed out there, the biggest problem with the soft-censorship of Taylor’s video is it’s banning of comments, which prevents informed people (like me) from rebutting Taylor’s nonsense and lies in the place where impressionable people (like most of the people who comment here) are most likely to look
     
    So what's your take on nature vs nuture and genetic differences in IQ and other traits among the various racial and ethnic groups?

    I think that most people around here ball park that most traits are 50-50 mix of genes and environment, assuming you're not talking about extreme environments. We also assume differences in average IQ and other traits among various groups.

    That's the gist of this debate. You spend a lot of time in your comments discussing Taylor's discussion about sub-Sahara African. However, I'm not sure that many people around here care much about whether they were capable of building two- or three-story houses and pretty churches.

    Also, from what I’ve seen of them in pictures, I wouldn’t call the monolithic churches of Ethiopia “pretty”. “Sublime”, perhaps, but not “pretty”.

    Read More
  36. @Njguy73
    Athletes, actors, and rock stars date hot women. It goes with their need to be noticed.

    Billionaire CEOs date plain women. It goes with their need to keep low profiles. You don't want to be in US Weekly on a regular basis if you have millions of shareholders depending on you.

    So does that make President Trump a billionaire rock star?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Njguy73
    Trump is, always has been, and always will be a celebrity first and a businessman second. If he learned that he could be more famous for arcwelding than for building skyscrapers, he'd buy a mask and a torch tomorrow.
    , @Truth
    No, it makes him a homosexual.
  37. utu says:

    What was the highest % of Ashkenazi J ever found by 23andMe? Is it possible to be 100% Jewish in terms of 23andMe? If they push too high in their construct of the genetic Jew then virtually every non-Jewish European will en up having a non-zero Jewish part. To get 50.2% as Wojcicki did her father who is ostensibly non-Jewish must be partially Jewish in terms of 23andMe definition because her mother certainly is not 100% Jewish because nobody can be. Do you see now the problem with 23andMe?

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Does anyone expect the test to be reliably accurate at the sub-percent level? If so, they need a reality check.
    , @TomSchmidt
    More ofyour DNA comes from your mother than your father, when you count mitochondria. Perhaps that?
  38. @Kirt
    Kind of interesting how neither 23andme nor Ancestry.com are able to distinguish genetically between French and Germans. Given the amount of warfare over the centuries between French and Germans, this belies the always rather dubious assertion that genetically similar people get along better than those with more genetic differences. Our Lord had it right when he said, "A man's enemies shall be of his own household".

    I’m sure they are able to distinguish between French and German, but choose not too. “What would German ethnic-nationalism lead to,” is probably in the back of their mind. But they distinguish Ashkenazi, which following their French-German example, they could have put into a larger unit like Greek-Jewish-Lebanese.

    Read More
    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    I don't think so. They can't distinguish between Norwegian and Swedish, so it makes sense that French and German would overlap as well. Probably the only French who are genetically that distinct are the ones in the far South who may have Italian or Iberian ancestry. I'm guessing the reason they can distinguish British and Irish on some tests (ancestry.com) is because they are islands and thus somewhat more isolated. But I've never seen a test that can differentiate between different regions within Britain.
    , @Barnard
    The boundaries of Germany have not been consistent over the past 500 years. Do you think there is a big genetic difference between a person whose family has lived in Strasbourg for three or more generations and one who has lived in Stuttgart over the same time? Do you think there are not significant differences between the genetic population from the French Rivera and Normandy? In German,y do you think there would be no distinctions between a native of Bavaria and Schleswig or a town near the Polish border?
  39. Abe says: • Website
    @Mr. Anon
    You got to hand it to Sergey Brin, throwing over his wife for a younger and less attractive woman. I guess those Google-glasses double as beer-goggles.

    After eight years and two children, the Brin-Wojcicki marriage broke up in 2015 as Sergey’s affair with an ambitious young Google executive, Amanda Rosenberg, became public knowledge. Anne spent 2016 being seen in the company of baseball slugger and fellow biomedical innovation connoisseur Alex Rodriguez

    * private jet at Moffett Field: $50 million
    * co-founding the biggest Internet search engine in the world: $40 billion
    * knowing there is 0% chance your 2 kids will wake up in the morning and kiss lips that 8 hours ago were around the thing that was once inside Madonna’s thing which once happily housed Dennis Rodman’s thing? : priceless

    Read More
  40. Whiskey says: • Website

    Men who can date hot women. Those who can’t date ugly women. Fixed it for you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @grapesoda
    Depends how hard you have to try to get them and how into you they are. Most socially deemed "hot" women expect to you to kiss their ass and men shouldn't stoop to that level.

    Cute, pleasant, and into you beats "hot," unless you're talking about promiscuous meaningless sex or vain status posturing.
  41. res says:

    Steve, I’m surprised you did not discuss their educational backgrounds (beyond Susan’s MBA, unless I missed something).

    From Wikipedia:

    Anne: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Wojcicki

    She graduated with a B.S. in biology in 1996.[8] She did molecular biology research at the National Institutes of Health and the University of California, San Diego.[5]

    Susan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Wojcicki

    Wojcicki studied history and literature at Harvard University and graduated with honors in 1990. She originally planned on getting a PhD in economics and pursuing a career in academia, but changed her plans when she discovered technology.[9]

    She also received her Master’s of Science in economics from the University of California, Santa Cruz in 1993 and a Master’s in Business Administration from the UCLA Anderson School of Management in 1998.[11]

    I think the educational backgrounds say a lot about the science/denial split. The nature/nurture aspect of their differences makes for an intriguing question.

    Interestingly, their sister kind of split the difference educationally.

    Janet: http://fortune.com/2012/02/01/before-google-the-wojcicki-girls-learned-from-mom/

    Her daughter Janet is a PhD anthropologist and epidemiologist.

    And she is a practicing scientist: http://profiles.ucsf.edu/janet.wojcicki

    Read More
  42. kihowi says:
    @Kirt
    Kind of interesting how neither 23andme nor Ancestry.com are able to distinguish genetically between French and Germans. Given the amount of warfare over the centuries between French and Germans, this belies the always rather dubious assertion that genetically similar people get along better than those with more genetic differences. Our Lord had it right when he said, "A man's enemies shall be of his own household".

    If I can distinguish between a german and frenchman by sight, it’s possible to do it with genetics. The technology just doesn’t exist yet. I couldn’t do it every single time, but I’d beat the hell out of chance.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lurker
    It's not always clear in a mixed group but when you see a lot of Germans (or French) in one place it's pretty clear which is which.

    I was became fully conscious of this effect on my first visit to Ireland. I suddenly got that there really was an Irish 'look', several in fact. Being in England there are a ton of Irish people around (plus lots of people with some Irish ancestry). Being used to seeing us all mixed together I was just not fully conscious of it. Once I could see a lot of Irish people together in one place, it jumped out and that awareness has remained.
  43. res says:
    @TelfoedJohn
    More martyrs of the Goolag: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/30/us/politics/eric-schmidt-google-new-america.html

    The ritual denials of the reasons for the firing, etc. are annoying.

    Read More
  44. res says:
    @utu
    What was the highest % of Ashkenazi J ever found by 23andMe? Is it possible to be 100% Jewish in terms of 23andMe? If they push too high in their construct of the genetic Jew then virtually every non-Jewish European will en up having a non-zero Jewish part. To get 50.2% as Wojcicki did her father who is ostensibly non-Jewish must be partially Jewish in terms of 23andMe definition because her mother certainly is not 100% Jewish because nobody can be. Do you see now the problem with 23andMe?

    Does anyone expect the test to be reliably accurate at the sub-percent level? If so, they need a reality check.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    You seem to never get points I am trying to make. I know it is personal.

    It is not about "the sub-percent level" you obstinate antagonist; it is about being at least 50% while we know there are no 100% Jews. It is about "ethnicity construction" in terms of 23andMe particularly when applied to Ashkenazi.
  45. bb753 says:
    @anonymous-antimarxist
    You make a good point!!!

    Over the years Steve has cranked out dozens of published articles and hundreds of block posts rifting on the differences between Christian Guilt and "Jewish Guilt".

    Perhaps Steve now needs to work the a new vein of gold.

    The difference between Christian Hypocrisy and Jewish Hypocrisy.

    In brief with examples:

    Christian Hypocrisy: Failing to practice what one preaches. Example the Rev. Jimmy Swaggart crying over his porn and whore addictions.

    Jewish Hypocrisy: Failing to preach what one practices. Example Gene Simmons, born Tirat Carmel, of KISS fame and singer and co-composer of the anthem Rock and Roll All Night(and Party Everyday). Gene Simmons of course in his private life has admitted to being a life long teetotaler who thinks that pot and all other drugs are for the goyim, oops I mean morons.

    Of working this vein of gold is precisely what has gotten David Duke in so much trouble over the decades.

    What about all the groupies he supposedly got intimate with? Maybe he was just not into the “drugs” part of “Sex and Drugs an Rock’n’Roll?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    Like I said, Gene Simmons obviously avoided drugs and alcohol because he felt that he had no desire to weaken his own mind and self-control. But having lots and lots of sex with teen groupies who were high and therefore impaired in judgment is not a problem.

    Ever notice that the Golden Rule is pretty much a goy thing???
  46. 3g4me says:

    @ 14 Altai: Interesting that 23andme now classifies Ashkenazi Jews as “100% European.” It wasn’t that way 5 years ago and the Jewish % was clearly labeled as distinct from European (which it is – not so distant as Asian or African, of course, but it’s still a clearly distinct genetic off-shoot). Probably due to push back – the typical Jewish “Hello fellow White person” when criticizing, and “Jews aren’t White” when virtue-signalling.

    Read More
  47. Flip says:
    @Thea
    Youth in and of itself is attractive to men. Blame biology.

    Yep. And not getting fat too. I feel sorry for friends whose wives blimped up as they got older. It would be hard to keep me interested.

    Read More
  48. Flip says:
    @Njguy73
    Athletes, actors, and rock stars date hot women. It goes with their need to be noticed.

    Billionaire CEOs date plain women. It goes with their need to keep low profiles. You don't want to be in US Weekly on a regular basis if you have millions of shareholders depending on you.

    Plus you want your kids to be smart.

    Read More
  49. Read the Takimag article and pay close attention to the links. If you don’t know what the product is, then you are the product. That product may not be self-evident. The 23andMe business with outsiders is troubling.
    Watch GATTACA again.

    Read More
  50. Numinous says:
    @Anonymous
    OT: More immigriping... From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.

    http://littleindia.com/m-night-shyamalan-kal-penn-indian-origin-celebrities-slammed-trump/

    From M Night Shyamalan to Kal Penn, Indian-origin Stars Against Trump
    With Padma Lakshmi criticising Trump once again, here is a look at other Indian American celebrities who have condemned POTUS.

    ...Indian American model-turned-author Padma Lakshmi recently slammed US President Donald Trump, saying he is a “menace to society”. She was speaking at the 8th Mountain Echoes Literary Festival in Thimphu, Bhutan. This is not the first time the author has lashed out against the US president.

    Last year, during the run-up to the elections, the Variety magazine quoted her as saying: “Even if he wasn’t the racist buffoon that he is making himself out to be, I probably wouldn’t vote for him. But as an immigrant, I obviously don’t see his worldview as mine.”

    She added: “We are a country of immigrants, so to say you should put a wall up or limit certain ethnicities is sort of antithetical to what this country is about. He himself is an immigrant of immigrant descent. Unless you are from the Cherokee nation, your ancestors are immigrants so you may be an umpteenth generation immigrant but there you are, squatting on someone else’s land.”...
     

    In their own land they'd be squatting and shitting in the street.

    OT: More immigriping… From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.
    .
    .
    .
    In their own land they’d be squatting and shitting in the street.

    When the British first encountered India, the latter was arguably the more advanced civilization in everything except naval technology. That’s why the British bothered to sail halfway around the world; to buy goods they couldn’t get back home.

    And, by the way, you all (British, etc.) were shitting in pitchers by your bedsides around that time and for a while to come, so the comparison of pooping habits isn’t so flattering to your lot.

    Read More
    • Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist
    As UNICEF says, take your poo to the loo, India.
    , @War for Blair Mountain
    Go back to India...And take Sanjay Pinchar with you.

    I support a National Origins Immigration Policy that excludes the Hindus and Sihks from India...

    The Hindus are comming to America to enthusiastically vote The Historic Native Born White American Majority Working Class into a racial minority within the borders of America....And I'll make the assumption that your people are not street shitters...for the sake of argument....


    Steve

    For at least ten years the Gateway National Refuge in Queens has been plagued by colorful-candle-lit-little-rafts containing the ashes of deceased Indian Immigrants..What next?....The Hudson River transformed into the Ganges River with decaying corpses floating down the bucolic Hudson Valley?

    , @Jack Hanson
    Settle down before you start burning widows alive again.
    , @gda
    "..the latter was arguably the more advanced civilization in everything except naval technology. "

    Really? Who exactly argues that? A rag tag few British mariners conquered India because they had better ships? Seems they had better weapons too, at minimum. Better planning as well. And so on.

    "That’s why the British bothered to sail halfway around the world; to buy goods they couldn’t get back home."

    And that makes the Indians more advanced exactly how again? The fact that they were able to grow spices in a place that was geographically ideal for growing spices? Or were they really after the advanced technology and knowledge of Indian civilization? From which they fashioned the Industrial Revolution.

    This truth has been hidden for years. Surely you owe us the details of how the great Indian Civilization was co-opted by a bunch of British savages.
    , @dr kill
    Hahaha. Is that you Indira?
    , @Tracy

    And, by the way, you all (British, etc.) were shitting in pitchers by your bedsides around that time and for a while to come, so the comparison of pooping habits isn’t so flattering to your lot.
     
    Ouch, you really got us there; before Europeans re-invented the thousands-of-years-old Roman (European) plumbing, we didn't have that sort of plumbing.
  51. Lurker says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    As I pointed out there, the biggest problem with the soft-censorship of Taylor’s video is it’s banning of comments, which prevents informed people (like me) from rebutting Taylor’s nonsense and lies in the place where impressionable people (like most of the people who comment here) are most likely to look
     
    So what's your take on nature vs nuture and genetic differences in IQ and other traits among the various racial and ethnic groups?

    I think that most people around here ball park that most traits are 50-50 mix of genes and environment, assuming you're not talking about extreme environments. We also assume differences in average IQ and other traits among various groups.

    That's the gist of this debate. You spend a lot of time in your comments discussing Taylor's discussion about sub-Sahara African. However, I'm not sure that many people around here care much about whether they were capable of building two- or three-story houses and pretty churches.

    I think that most people around here ball park that most traits are 50-50 mix of genes and environment

    I think that’s a reasonable starting position. Better than the false 100% biological determinist/blank slate dichotomy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @matt
    It depends on what you mean by "starting position" (it's always useful to choose precision over vagueness, wherever possible). As this essay points out, there is a difference between what makes for a reasonable hypothesis, and what makes for a reasonable belief.
  52. Forbes says:
    @anonymous
    OT - Maybe others have seen this, but I have detected a new narrative coming out of the Houston hurricane. It goes like this. We cannot spend one penny on building Trump's border wall until we rebuild Houston and the surrounding damaged areas.

    I am willing to bet that Ryan and others will find a way to not fund the wall and will blame it on the need to rebuild the affected areas in Texas.

    Another day, another proffered excuse. Yawn. We’ll see.

    The thing with the prog-left is that they never run out of demands, complaints, or new rationalizations for following their course of action. In the past, Cuckservatives have given in to the demands, as if satisfaction of the latest demand will finally slake the prog-left thirst. It never does.

    Trump appears of a different mind. Only time will tell.

    Read More
  53. matt says:
    @Lurker

    I think that most people around here ball park that most traits are 50-50 mix of genes and environment
     
    I think that's a reasonable starting position. Better than the false 100% biological determinist/blank slate dichotomy.

    It depends on what you mean by “starting position” (it’s always useful to choose precision over vagueness, wherever possible). As this essay points out, there is a difference between what makes for a reasonable hypothesis, and what makes for a reasonable belief.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    For those of us in the real world, we have to use the information that we have. We have to make decisions based on incomplete information.

    Therefore, we act on reasonable hypotheses until new information comes along. We don't have to turn them into beliefs.

    You do it every day. We all do.

    This isn't a philosophy class. It's the real world with real consequences.

    You're a smart guy who doesn't like the evidence so you're using debate skills to maneuver around it. Good luck.

    This is why I love my work. You find out very quickly who the guys are who can get the job done and who are the guys who can talk. You're the latter.

  54. Lurker says:
    @kihowi
    If I can distinguish between a german and frenchman by sight, it's possible to do it with genetics. The technology just doesn't exist yet. I couldn't do it every single time, but I'd beat the hell out of chance.

    It’s not always clear in a mixed group but when you see a lot of Germans (or French) in one place it’s pretty clear which is which.

    I was became fully conscious of this effect on my first visit to Ireland. I suddenly got that there really was an Irish ‘look’, several in fact. Being in England there are a ton of Irish people around (plus lots of people with some Irish ancestry). Being used to seeing us all mixed together I was just not fully conscious of it. Once I could see a lot of Irish people together in one place, it jumped out and that awareness has remained.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Flip
    So do the English look more like the Irish or the Germans?
    , @dr kill
    There is an Irish look, it's called the Buckethead.
  55. Lurker says:
    @RudyM
    As an aside: I did 23andme. If I'm only 99.7% European, will I still be able to live in the coming all-white utopia?

    Of course.

    A parody of lib/leftard ‘racial purity’ nonsense.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Olorin
    Ha! You beat me to it.

    "I'm a Millennial! It's not my fault I never learned any survival skills."

    Speak Freely (regarding Woj Sisters' censorship)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odw2lyLPd24

    The Cruel Fate of Kekistan (regarding demography being destiny)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYS9fLucyt8
  56. I’m surprised Steve hasn’t mentioned yet that Anne dated A-Rod. Adding baseball and interracial relationships to this discussion would enhance its Istve-ian synergy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @njguy73

    I’m surprised Steve hasn’t mentioned yet that Anne dated A-Rod.
     
    I'm surprised that you made that comment without reading the article.
  57. fish says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Statues glorifying dead white makes have no place in a free society. They are e monuments to oppression slavery and privilege

    15 to life…..it just be’n Dindu Graduate School!

    http://www.kansascity.com

    /news/local/crime/article170048557.html

    - Leonard Pitts

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Just read about that. An ugly young black thug arrested as a serial killer of older White men. He spots them walking alone, follows them and kills them. Caught by DNA, soda cups and cigarette butts left at the scene.

    I remember when liberals and democrats thought DNA evidence would prove all the black criminal's innocent. Instead it's convicting more and more of them. The DNA base of everyone arrested is as great as the fingerprint data base. The DNA data base proves that blacks did commit the crimes and they were not justly convicted because of bigotry and racism.

    All hail DNA!!!!!
  58. @Anonymous
    OT: More immigriping... From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.

    http://littleindia.com/m-night-shyamalan-kal-penn-indian-origin-celebrities-slammed-trump/

    From M Night Shyamalan to Kal Penn, Indian-origin Stars Against Trump
    With Padma Lakshmi criticising Trump once again, here is a look at other Indian American celebrities who have condemned POTUS.

    ...Indian American model-turned-author Padma Lakshmi recently slammed US President Donald Trump, saying he is a “menace to society”. She was speaking at the 8th Mountain Echoes Literary Festival in Thimphu, Bhutan. This is not the first time the author has lashed out against the US president.

    Last year, during the run-up to the elections, the Variety magazine quoted her as saying: “Even if he wasn’t the racist buffoon that he is making himself out to be, I probably wouldn’t vote for him. But as an immigrant, I obviously don’t see his worldview as mine.”

    She added: “We are a country of immigrants, so to say you should put a wall up or limit certain ethnicities is sort of antithetical to what this country is about. He himself is an immigrant of immigrant descent. Unless you are from the Cherokee nation, your ancestors are immigrants so you may be an umpteenth generation immigrant but there you are, squatting on someone else’s land.”...
     

    In their own land they'd be squatting and shitting in the street.

    Her statement would be news to the hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions?) of Amerindians who’ve no ancestors among the Cherokee. I suppose she isn’t not entirely awakened yet; perhaps she needs another cup of coffee….

    In any event, many of us do have admixture with Amerindians (though not so many as like to claim so); certainly more of us than of of Hindoos who showed up on airplanes in the past century (i.e., more than zero…).

    I any event, by her lights all nations outside Africa’s savannahs* are “nations of immigrants,” so she had better get to work chastising her own government about it’s extant walls on the Bangladeshi border rather than mine about its merely planned walls.

    *Though presumably that area’s original hominid inhabitants have also long since been displaced….

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    Elizabeth Warren, is that you? My golly Pocahontas, how long have you been frequenting at UNZ?
  59. @matt
    You can peruse my comment history if you would like to know more about my opinions on this subject (i would bet large sums of money that I know more about it than you've forgotten). But your attitude here is essentially that Taylor should be permitted tell lies without any pushback, because his lies are in the service of The Greater Truth. I disagree.

    Regarding Taylor, I agree with you that the comments should be left on. Open debate is good.

    Checked out some of your comments. You definitely have an interest in Africa. Your comments on IQ and genetics are detailed and knowledgeable, but you don’t stand up well to counter-arguments from similarly trained opponents. Indeed, you often leave the best retorts unanswered, which isn’t a good sign.

    However, I did track down your views on nature vs nurture:

    I can say that at present the balance of evidence suggests that it is more likely than not that, in the same environment, white and black Americans would develop the same phenotypic IQ.

    I simply don’t understand (yes, I understand that you are extraordinarily intelligent – though only because of environment ;) – and I’m not) how you can make that statement. The evidence points to a significant genetic component to intelligence and that average IQ varies among the different races and ethnicities.

    Commentator res does a nice job of takin you to task:

    Given “same” I take it you are arguing for a 0% genetic contribution. If that is not so please clarify what you meant by that statement.

    I don’t see how you can believe that given the evidence I cited. If nothing else it is absolutely clear that IQ SNPs discovered so far differ in frequency between African and European populations. It is highly unlikely that allows for a genetic contribution of exactly 0.

    Thanks for engaging in a reasonable fashion. Hope you are around for follow up as more genetic data comes in. Would you care to place any bets on the outcome?

    Of course, the evidence may change. I’m fine with that. This is one case where confirmation bias isn’t an issue; I’d love to be wrong. But the studies that you have cited just don’t stand up to the studies that show a genetic component. Luckily, genetic research should give some evidence over the next decade or two, so we can leave our little spat alone and just wait for the data to arrive.

    Read More
    • Replies: @matt

    The evidence points to a significant genetic component to intelligence and that average IQ varies among the different races and ethnicities.
     
    The evidence points to a significant genetic component to intelligence differences within groups. The evidence also points to large differences in average IQ between groups. These two statements don't make the hypothesis that the latter group differences are partly genetic any more likely. To see why, read this comment of mine.

    Hereditarians have been making this argument since the late 1960s. (The latest repetition of it by a well known figure that I'm aware of was Charles Murray's use of it on Sam Harris's podcast. Interestingly, none of the responses to Murray that I saw challenged him on the point where he's most obviously wrong, in my view). They should have known it was wrong by the late 1980s. Yet they keep making this argument, over and over again. It's enough to make you suspect they don't have anything else.


    Commentator res does a nice job of takin you to task:
     
    I don't really think he does. I'll admit that the more technical genetic arguments are out of my wheelhouse, but as far I can tell, the fact that SNPs that do a good job of predicting IQ in Europeans (but not necessarily in Africans) are found with a higher frequency in Europeans than they are in Africans doesn't at all make "highly unlikely... a genetic contribution of exactly 0". (See this paper).

    I'd say there's probably a lot of things that make a genetic contribution of exactly zero unlikely, for the same reason that any precise estimate is unlikely as well (It's highly unlikely that your guess of 50/50 is exactly right). It may be, for example, that Europeans are a little genetically superior to Africans when it comes to IQ. Or it may be that Europeans are a little genetically inferior to Africans when it comes to IQ.

    , @Negrolphin Pool

    Or it may be that Europeans are a little genetically inferior to Africans when it comes to IQ.
     
    This is unfathomable nonsense, stated somewhat contentiously and imprecisely. I'm getting the strong sense that you have a weak statistical background. I don't mean that as an insult, it is extremely common among otherwise highly educated people. But it can lead to shockingly absurd misreadings of things. Most importantly, as every gambler knows, a solid grasp of statistical reality can tell you when to quit.

    Are you aware of the sheer volume of data and magnitude of the differences therein revealed between black and white IQ? We aren't talking about one or two data points with wide enough discrepancies to raise doubt. There are well-established correlations between things like NEAP tests, SATs, ASVAB, etc and IQ, with collective sample sizes in the tens of billions between them, all in agreement, all showing almost exactly the same relationship. There's probably no finding more replicated in the social sciences than the persistently 1SD lower black (US, proxy Africans) IQ from the white mean.

    The relationship is as clear as day.

  60. utu says:
    @res
    Does anyone expect the test to be reliably accurate at the sub-percent level? If so, they need a reality check.

    You seem to never get points I am trying to make. I know it is personal.

    It is not about “the sub-percent level” you obstinate antagonist; it is about being at least 50% while we know there are no 100% Jews. It is about “ethnicity construction” in terms of 23andMe particularly when applied to Ashkenazi.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jay Fink
    What's the highest Ashkenazi % possible on 23andme? I am at 98.5%. I have seen others at this % but nothing higher.
    , @res
    One of us is not getting it. My point was that your point depends on 50.2 > 50. That difference is a sub-percent distinction.

    If you think it's personal then ask yourself why I also call out points of yours I think are good. I do confess I am tired of the low SNR (signal to noise ratio) I see when reading your comments. That accompanied by your attitude is not a good combination.
  61. @Tiny Duck
    white Christians the real terrorists in America. Not Muslims. Not BLM. It's you and your parasitic kids.

    Here is white men can do better

    https://twitter.com/edskrein/status/902244967296491520

    Use your privilege to create space for others

    Idris Elba of course issued a similar statement when he refused the rôle of Heimdallr.

    Read More
    • Agree: BenKenobi
    • Replies: @Tiny Duck
    Not the same thing

    People of Color have been subject to whitewashing and have received no fair representation in western media

    Context matters
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Elba actually hated playing him. Not enough to turn down the money, mind you ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/11195704/Idris-Elba-interview-Marvel-movies-are-torture.html )

    Did it take him a while to shake off Mandela?

    “Mmm. Yeah. I mean, I didn’t quite shake it off.” It seems he didn’t have the chance. “It was really weird,” he begins. “I’d just done eight months in South Africa. I came to England and the day I came back I had to do reshoots on Thor 2.” He raises an eyebrow. “And in the actual scene my hair was different, my…” He stops and gives an exasperated sigh. “I was like, ‘This is torture, man. I don’t want to do this.’ My agent said: ‘You have to, it’s part of the deal.’ ”

    In the scene in question in the superhero movie, “I’m actually falling down from a spaceship, so they had to put me in harness in this green-screen studio. And in between takes I was stuck there, fake hair stuck on to my head with glue, this f------ helmet, while they reset. And I’m thinking: ‘24 hours ago, I was Mandela’. When I walked into the set the extras called me Madiba. I was literally walking in this man’s boots. [Within] six months, the crew, we were all so in love with this film we had made. I was him. I was Mandela, practically,” he insists.

    “Then there I was, in this stupid harness, with this wig and this sword and these contact lenses. It ripped my heart out.”
     
  62. Anon says: • Website • Disclaimer

    Regardless of what they DO, they are surely agreed in what they say. I’m sure Anne totally supports Susan in everything.

    The Glob Way is SAY this to DO that. The SAY gives PC cover to the DO.

    Read More
  63. @anonymous-antimarxist
    You make a good point!!!

    Over the years Steve has cranked out dozens of published articles and hundreds of block posts rifting on the differences between Christian Guilt and "Jewish Guilt".

    Perhaps Steve now needs to work the a new vein of gold.

    The difference between Christian Hypocrisy and Jewish Hypocrisy.

    In brief with examples:

    Christian Hypocrisy: Failing to practice what one preaches. Example the Rev. Jimmy Swaggart crying over his porn and whore addictions.

    Jewish Hypocrisy: Failing to preach what one practices. Example Gene Simmons, born Tirat Carmel, of KISS fame and singer and co-composer of the anthem Rock and Roll All Night(and Party Everyday). Gene Simmons of course in his private life has admitted to being a life long teetotaler who thinks that pot and all other drugs are for the goyim, oops I mean morons.

    Of working this vein of gold is precisely what has gotten David Duke in so much trouble over the decades.

    While I take your general point, I expand upon Thea’s defence of Simmons: He has never said anything like “drugs are for goyim.” Rather, he and Paul Stanley (also Jewish and using an assumed name to better fit as an entertainer, albeit born in America) are both patriotic, relatively traditional Americans who have repeatedly explained that while they do not themselves smoke, get drunk, etc., they believe any decision to do such things is a personal choice for the individual based upon his own values and preferences, and that they do not judge anyone one way or another who may choose to do these things, except for the (obvious and inarguable) point that doing such things to the detriment of one’s health and functioning is inadvisable (a major reason for to their parting ways with Frehley and Criss was those two’s problems with substance abuse …).

    What’s more, rock ‘n’ roll and partying need not involve drugs. Rock ‘n’ roll is about independence, freedom, dancing, music, and fun whilst letting one’s hair down, as it were. The drugs are often coincidental, and that’s (in this tee-totaler’s opinion) a shame. Furthermore, Kiss’ music, including the song you cite, does not glorify drugs (it does contain occasional light-hearted allusions, as with “Cold Gin” and “Detroit Rock City”).

    Read More
    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    Yeah but the whole anti-drug/alcohol stance is completely discredited by the rampant sexcapades with young groupies (I wonder how much they were abstaining btw).

    At least in my opinion. If you're gonna be whoring around, don't do things by half-measures.
  64. @TelfoedJohn
    I'm sure they are able to distinguish between French and German, but choose not too. "What would German ethnic-nationalism lead to," is probably in the back of their mind. But they distinguish Ashkenazi, which following their French-German example, they could have put into a larger unit like Greek-Jewish-Lebanese.

    I don’t think so. They can’t distinguish between Norwegian and Swedish, so it makes sense that French and German would overlap as well. Probably the only French who are genetically that distinct are the ones in the far South who may have Italian or Iberian ancestry. I’m guessing the reason they can distinguish British and Irish on some tests (ancestry.com) is because they are islands and thus somewhat more isolated. But I’ve never seen a test that can differentiate between different regions within Britain.

    Read More
  65. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Altai
    I'm afraid not, maybe the Jewish guy, maybe I think he might be straight also, but the others are definitely heterosexual I think. Welcome to the world of New York media hipsters!

    Granted these guys are so unemployable that they only made it as far as Buzzfeed, so maybe they are a very poor impression.

    This is what Buzzfeed-tier gay men look like.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeCUZGRmMt0

    at 3:12 in video:

    Lesbian: Whenever I think about gay men having sex, all the time, it’s all bent over.

    Gay Guy: It’s like this [on all fours] all the time. Let’th have thex. Here you go.

    Ugh.

    Read More
  66. Anon says: • Website • Disclaimer

    Susan Woj says Damore’s observations would have been even less excusable had it been about race.

    Then, THAT is the problem. PC made it impossible to discuss race issues.

    PC has created all these taboos and shibboleths that are taken for granted and not to be questioned.

    We should talk about sexual differences and racial differences and all else.

    One taboo leads to another. It leads to Taboo Envy among groups whose interests are not protected by taboos.

    Envy is the driving force behind politics. It’s been said the women’s suffrage movement was fueled partly by envy of black men getting the vote. White men voting was one thing. But for black men to get the vote but not white womenfolk? That was hurtful. White women got envious. ‘Negro men vote but not me????’

    When one people gain freedom or rights, those that don’t have the same feel envious.

    In China, no one cares about not having the vote. There is equality of no-votes for everyone.
    But suppose one region is allowed the vote. Then, other regions will feel envious and call for voting rights too. It will become a HUGE issue.

    In the US, freedom is less the issue than sacralization and taboos(integral to sacralization as the sacred must be worshiped and not questioned, let alone desecrated).
    Basic freedom is availed to all. What matters in the game of power is control of taboos that decides which groups are to have halos over their heads and favored in the Narrative.

    Under Christianity, the Holy were God and Jesus and then the saints and pious followers.

    In post-Christian world, the preferred groups are those favored for ‘victim status’.

    So, we have Victim Envy. Those who want more power designate themselves as the powerless holy victim people folks. Paradoxically, cult of ‘powerlessness’ does wonders for gaining power, even supremacist power. After all, if you’re people are ‘powerless’ victims, they need to be protected from criticism and ‘defamation’.

    The big three are Jews, blacks, and homos.

    And women feel victim envy, just like they did when black MEN got the vote in the 19th century.

    This is all insufferable and maybe should be called the Insufferage Movement.

    This victim envy doesn’t exist in Cuba. Cuba maybe be repressive, but blacks are not allowed special status as victims. They are just Cubans like everyone else.
    But in the US, politics is all about sacralization of certain groups, and it really took off with Jews and Holocaust narrative.

    Read More
    • Agree: Abe
    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    "The Deplorables" vs. "The Insufferables".
  67. sarahA says:
    @Njguy73
    Athletes, actors, and rock stars date hot women. It goes with their need to be noticed.

    Billionaire CEOs date plain women. It goes with their need to keep low profiles. You don't want to be in US Weekly on a regular basis if you have millions of shareholders depending on you.

    Snapchat CEO Evan Spiegel married Victoria Secret supermodel Miranda Kerr, come on. Everyone loves hot women.

    Read More
    • Replies: @njguy73
    And after eight years and two kids Spiegel will get sick of his model wife's diva shit, and realize that beyond the hotness there's not much. By then Snapchat will be faced with major competition, and he'll realize that instead of arm candy he now needs to hook up with a calculating, conniving climber who only needs to be a HB6, so long as she knows how to be his orthodox-thought-enforcer. Anyone upsets Snapchat's apple-cart, she's bury them where Susan Wojcicki buried James Damore.
    , @grapesoda

    Everyone loves hot women.
     
    This kind of thinking is why American women typically have such bad attitudes. I don't love, or like, people who have bad attitudes, regardless of what they look like. In other countries, women are taught how to act, just like everyone else.

    But I wouldn't expect someone who doesn't know the difference between "Victoria Secret" and "Victoria's Secret" to be able to understand such nuances.
  68. MEH 0910 says:
    @Tiny Duck
    white Christians the real terrorists in America. Not Muslims. Not BLM. It's you and your parasitic kids.

    Here is white men can do better

    https://twitter.com/edskrein/status/902244967296491520

    Use your privilege to create space for others

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Skrein#Early_life

    Skrein was born in Camden, London, England, and was raised there and in other London boroughs, Haringey and Islington. He is of Jewish Austrian and English descent.[1]

    Ed Skrein could star in “The Susan Wojcicki Story”! Sure, he’s part English rather than part Polish, but woke enough!

    Read More
  69. Flip says:
    @Lurker
    It's not always clear in a mixed group but when you see a lot of Germans (or French) in one place it's pretty clear which is which.

    I was became fully conscious of this effect on my first visit to Ireland. I suddenly got that there really was an Irish 'look', several in fact. Being in England there are a ton of Irish people around (plus lots of people with some Irish ancestry). Being used to seeing us all mixed together I was just not fully conscious of it. Once I could see a lot of Irish people together in one place, it jumped out and that awareness has remained.

    So do the English look more like the Irish or the Germans?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    The English vary, in quite obvious "lumps" (i.e. no smooth clines, neighbouring "types" can sometimes be very distinct from each other), sometimes to a quite alarming degree (cough cough Norfolk, or Westmorland cough). A few look "Black Irish", some tall, some tiny, some look like Hollywood vikings, basically Danish. Most look (to me) vaguely Walloon Belgian in the south, and more Scandy in the north. The Scots look either weirdly Dutch, or very Irish.
    What a "True German" looks like I have no idea, they seem all over the map, phenotypically.

    Here's a speculative maybe; ages-old parish system and Poor Law inhibiting internal migration among the plebs, on top of rank Feudalism, on top of the xenophobic and fractious, basically tribal/folk units in the Early Mediaeval period.
    All blown up by iron, coal, canals, railways etc. , excess rural pop'n. ending up in the towns, mills and mines and "miscegenating" with the likes of the Welsh, Irish and Scots. The big separator there was religious denomination, even in my parents' day, right down to the most obscure sect. Independent Order of Methodists? Or Independent Methodist Order?? You just didn't. Or else you emigrated.
    Quakers were regarded with as much suspicion as the Jews, and Catholics indistinguishable in their benighted minds from Cannibals.
    The landward areas just stayed the same, but a lot emptier, and still expelling their spare people to the urban population sinks and the joys of rickets, typhoid, tuberculosis and cholera.

    , @Lurker
    More like the Germans I would say - with several qualifications!
  70. e says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Statues glorifying dead white makes have no place in a free society. They are e monuments to oppression slavery and privilege

    Get out of your parents’ basement, man, and get a life.

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  71. songbird says:

    I recently saw an amusing TV commercial for 23andme.

    Young, mixed-race woman finds out she is part SE Asian, goes to Vietman(?), is surrounded by Asian people. Finds out she is part African, goes to an African country is surrounded by black people playing chess. Finds out she is part Scandinavian, goes to Iceland, swims alone in a hot spring with the backdrop of snowy mountains – not even one white person.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    I saw one in the similar vein where the woman is Spanish, Italian, North African, and Lebanese and talks on about how she's from "all around the world".
  72. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    As I pointed out there, the biggest problem with the soft-censorship of Taylor’s video is it’s banning of comments, which prevents informed people (like me) from rebutting Taylor’s nonsense and lies in the place where impressionable people (like most of the people who comment here) are most likely to look
     
    So what's your take on nature vs nuture and genetic differences in IQ and other traits among the various racial and ethnic groups?

    I think that most people around here ball park that most traits are 50-50 mix of genes and environment, assuming you're not talking about extreme environments. We also assume differences in average IQ and other traits among various groups.

    That's the gist of this debate. You spend a lot of time in your comments discussing Taylor's discussion about sub-Sahara African. However, I'm not sure that many people around here care much about whether they were capable of building two- or three-story houses and pretty churches.

    The problem with assigning Nature/Nurture percentages is that it leaves no room for the autonomous individual. I would like to think that when I am talking to someone I am expressing MY personality, but what room is there between nature and nurture? Maybe I’m deluded and I am just a puppet of N and N. It makes me think the whole model is wrong. Nature/nurture/Nietzsche.

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  73. Jay Fink says:
    @utu
    You seem to never get points I am trying to make. I know it is personal.

    It is not about "the sub-percent level" you obstinate antagonist; it is about being at least 50% while we know there are no 100% Jews. It is about "ethnicity construction" in terms of 23andMe particularly when applied to Ashkenazi.

    What’s the highest Ashkenazi % possible on 23andme? I am at 98.5%. I have seen others at this % but nothing higher.

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    • Replies: @utu
    98.5%, Thanks. I thought maximum would be closer to 90% but it depends on how 23andme calibrates their method; what is the reference "pure blood" Ashkenazi sample they opted for?

    If you had an offspring by 0% Jewish spouse it could not be 50% Jewish, yet Ms. Wojcicki is which means her father must have some Jewish markers or 23andme engages in some shenanigans:

    if(x==Wojcicki) then y_aj≥50%
     
  74. Thomm says:

    There is no conflict between the sisters. 23andme does not distinguish anything by gender.

    It merely provides racial ancestry (which is rarely a surprise to anyone), and some health-genetic correlation data. Nothing about gender at all

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  75. Anon says: • Website • Disclaimer

    We focus on relations among races but among blacks and Hispanics, it’s more complicated.

    In the US, to count as white, one has to be all white or mostly white(and maybe some arab, asian, or Meso. Steve Jobs was white for example.)

    But to count as black, you could be anyone from light-skinned mulatto with straight hair to coal-black Negroid with nappy hair. Things are even more complicated with ‘Hispanic’ or ‘Latino’, a useless category if there ever was one.

    Anyway, if most whites are all white, blacks range from light-skinned(with far more white DNA) to dark-skinned. Since light-skinned blacks have more white genes or Jewish genes, and since white/Jewish IQ is higher than black IQ, the chances are white-blacks(or whacks or blites) will have higher IQ than black-blacks.
    So, over time, black community will be about white-blacks ruling over black-blacks. We see this in government and academia. Especially blacks with Jewish blood tend to be especially elevated. They got some Jewish IQ and also Affirmative Action. That is a terrific boost: high natural IQ and state favoritism.

    So, this white vs black dichotomy is too simple.

    We should talk of whites, white-blacks, and blacks.

    Same with Hispanics and Latinos. Bunching all them folks together is ridiculous. We need separate terms, and TERMS ARE KEY to political discussion.

    Terminology terminates and locks in meaning.

    So much of current politics is confused because the current terminology is so fuzzy wuzzy in relation to certain social phenom.

    Read More
    • Replies: @prole
    It is surprising that Blacks seem to accept those who are just 25% Black as deserving of affirmative action. Halle Berry , a mulatto raised by her white mother is considered equally deserving of affirmative action as 100% negros and insists her daughter is Black, despite having 3 white grandparents...
  76. MEH 0910 says:
    @Anon
    Susan Woj says Damore's observations would have been even less excusable had it been about race.

    Then, THAT is the problem. PC made it impossible to discuss race issues.

    PC has created all these taboos and shibboleths that are taken for granted and not to be questioned.

    We should talk about sexual differences and racial differences and all else.

    One taboo leads to another. It leads to Taboo Envy among groups whose interests are not protected by taboos.

    Envy is the driving force behind politics. It's been said the women's suffrage movement was fueled partly by envy of black men getting the vote. White men voting was one thing. But for black men to get the vote but not white womenfolk? That was hurtful. White women got envious. 'Negro men vote but not me????'

    When one people gain freedom or rights, those that don't have the same feel envious.

    In China, no one cares about not having the vote. There is equality of no-votes for everyone.
    But suppose one region is allowed the vote. Then, other regions will feel envious and call for voting rights too. It will become a HUGE issue.

    In the US, freedom is less the issue than sacralization and taboos(integral to sacralization as the sacred must be worshiped and not questioned, let alone desecrated).
    Basic freedom is availed to all. What matters in the game of power is control of taboos that decides which groups are to have halos over their heads and favored in the Narrative.

    Under Christianity, the Holy were God and Jesus and then the saints and pious followers.

    In post-Christian world, the preferred groups are those favored for 'victim status'.

    So, we have Victim Envy. Those who want more power designate themselves as the powerless holy victim people folks. Paradoxically, cult of 'powerlessness' does wonders for gaining power, even supremacist power. After all, if you're people are 'powerless' victims, they need to be protected from criticism and 'defamation'.

    The big three are Jews, blacks, and homos.

    And women feel victim envy, just like they did when black MEN got the vote in the 19th century.

    This is all insufferable and maybe should be called the Insufferage Movement.

    This victim envy doesn't exist in Cuba. Cuba maybe be repressive, but blacks are not allowed special status as victims. They are just Cubans like everyone else.
    But in the US, politics is all about sacralization of certain groups, and it really took off with Jews and Holocaust narrative.

    “The Deplorables” vs. “The Insufferables”.

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  77. AM says:
    @matt
    I too disapprove of soft-censorship. I disapprove of hard censorship too. But even the hard censorship of Taylor's video would not have been any great loss to science, given that it is full of nonsense and lies, as I pointed out in considerable detail in comments in another thread.

    As I pointed out there, the biggest problem with the soft-censorship of Taylor's video is it's banning of comments, which prevents informed people (like me) from rebutting Taylor's nonsense and lies in the place where impressionable people (like most of the people who comment here) are most likely to look: directly underneath the video. For this reason, if censorship is to be practiced at all, the hard variety (i.e., taking down the video altogether) is to be preferred.

    I agree that there is in general an unwillingness among environmentalists to discuss the race-IQ question on the merits of the evidence. But the best way hereditarians can combat this is by making better arguments. Pay no attention to the mote of soft-censorship in thy neighbor's eye; first cast out the beam of nonsense and lies in thine own eye.

    As I pointed out there, the biggest problem with the soft-censorship of Taylor’s video is it’s banning of comments, which prevents informed people (like me) from rebutting

    It also prevents people like me from rebutting your rebuttal, which amounted to: “But Ethiopia (only) had writing (from Egypt), a few stone churches, and two story houses (but not 3, or cathedrals or Damascus steel)! So it’s all wrong!”

    Um, no. I’m sure you can fill up volumes that hyperfocus on a particular tree branch while failing to observe the forest that everyone else is talking about.

    At any rate, I am in agreement that Taylor should take your notes on history and fold them in, because in presenting the whole truth, he’ll make his pretty compelling arguments stronger.

    Read More
    • Replies: @matt
    I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on my last two comments in the other thread. However "anomalous" the Horn of Africa may be, you still have an obligation to explain the anomaly. As I make clear in those last two comments, the fact that there is greater Eurasian admixture in the Horn doesn't appear to explain its historical performance relative to the rest of sub-Saharan Africa.

    By the way, Ge'ez script is more directly taken from South Arabia, not Egypt. Though ultimately, it does come from Egyptian hieroglyphs, just like all European alphabets ultimately do as well (through the Phoenician alphabet).

    Taylor also made blatantly wrong assertions that had nothing to do with Ethiopia, such as his remarks on Bruce Lahn's work. I also pointed this out on the other thread.

  78. Tiny Duck says:
    @Autochthon
    Idris Elba of course issued a similar statement when he refused the rôle of Heimdallr.

    Not the same thing

    People of Color have been subject to whitewashing and have received no fair representation in western media

    Context matters

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  79. Njguy73 says:
    @Peripatetic commenter
    So does that make President Trump a billionaire rock star?

    Trump is, always has been, and always will be a celebrity first and a businessman second. If he learned that he could be more famous for arcwelding than for building skyscrapers, he’d buy a mask and a torch tomorrow.

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  80. Barnard says:
    @TelfoedJohn
    I'm sure they are able to distinguish between French and German, but choose not too. "What would German ethnic-nationalism lead to," is probably in the back of their mind. But they distinguish Ashkenazi, which following their French-German example, they could have put into a larger unit like Greek-Jewish-Lebanese.

    The boundaries of Germany have not been consistent over the past 500 years. Do you think there is a big genetic difference between a person whose family has lived in Strasbourg for three or more generations and one who has lived in Stuttgart over the same time? Do you think there are not significant differences between the genetic population from the French Rivera and Normandy? In German,y do you think there would be no distinctions between a native of Bavaria and Schleswig or a town near the Polish border?

    Read More
    • Replies: @TelfoedJohn
    Like others on this thread, I feel I can tell French from German. Perhaps there is a case for differentiating south from north France, but none of these composite pictures are surprising:

    https://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5379/496/1600/europe.0.jpg
  81. res says:
    @utu
    You seem to never get points I am trying to make. I know it is personal.

    It is not about "the sub-percent level" you obstinate antagonist; it is about being at least 50% while we know there are no 100% Jews. It is about "ethnicity construction" in terms of 23andMe particularly when applied to Ashkenazi.

    One of us is not getting it. My point was that your point depends on 50.2 > 50. That difference is a sub-percent distinction.

    If you think it’s personal then ask yourself why I also call out points of yours I think are good. I do confess I am tired of the low SNR (signal to noise ratio) I see when reading your comments. That accompanied by your attitude is not a good combination.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    Complaining about low SNR is the last excuse for the swine that keeps missing the pearls.

    It is not about 0.2%. It is about being close or almost 50%. There are no 100% AJs in 23andMe. More like 90% at most. So the daughter of AJ mother and non-AJ father can't be 50% AJ unless the non-AJ father contributed to the AJ part.

    When coming up with the markers and algorithm 23andMe had to compromise between two opposite demands: minimize the number of false positives and maximize detection of the self-identified AJs which in case of AJs is hard as they are ME-E hybrid and thus everybody is partly European. The issues false positives and being the "pure blood" to AJs are more important than to any other ethnic group.

    If the method pushes too hard to make the self-identified AJs 100% genetically AJ then there will be lots of Europeans who according to 23andMe will have some AJ ancestry w/o ever having J or ME ancestors.

    I wonder whether in case of AJs 23andMe uses some nonlinear decision tree algorithm? Do they ask about your ethnic identification?
  82. @Thea
    Simmons has publicly expressed gratitude towards Americans and said he likes us as a people and culture. It's not fashionable to say that with his Hollywood crowd. I'll give him a pass.

    I seriously doubt many of the kids my age who were huge Kiss fans back in the seventies knew that Gene Simmons and for that matter Paul Stanley were strictly anti-drug and anti-alcohol.

    What they did “know” about Simmons was his famous boasting about how many teen groupies he slept with.

    Gene Simmons is your classic ultra Zionist Neo-Con who sees America as ripe for exploitation as he see fit to full his goals and those of “his people”.

    Here is the infamous clip from his hit “reality” cable show “Family Jewels”

    Gene Simmons “That Is What Gentiles Are For” – YouTube

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j72hW9RdbdI

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  83. @RudyM
    As an aside: I did 23andme. If I'm only 99.7% European, will I still be able to live in the coming all-white utopia?

    “If I’m only 99.7% European, will I still be able to live in the coming all-white utopia?”

    As long as you identify with that 99.7%, then yes. Because in the coming [sic] all-white utopia [sic], there will be no glorification of or special treatment for people afflicted with miniscule shreds of non-European DNA.

    Right now, in The Current Year, people will manufacture a Diverse background to rack up official victim Pokémon points (QED Rachel Dozhal, QED Elizabeth Warren) or they will identify with their 0.3% Diverse heritage because the (((gaystream))) media denigrate White people of normal sexuality 24/7/365.

    In the coming [sic] all-white utopia [sic], however, the media will celebrate White people 24/7/365, so The Current Year social pressure stoking a Flight from White will simply not exist.

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  84. @utu
    What was the highest % of Ashkenazi J ever found by 23andMe? Is it possible to be 100% Jewish in terms of 23andMe? If they push too high in their construct of the genetic Jew then virtually every non-Jewish European will en up having a non-zero Jewish part. To get 50.2% as Wojcicki did her father who is ostensibly non-Jewish must be partially Jewish in terms of 23andMe definition because her mother certainly is not 100% Jewish because nobody can be. Do you see now the problem with 23andMe?

    More ofyour DNA comes from your mother than your father, when you count mitochondria. Perhaps that?

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    If it is true that Ashkenazi Jews are a hybrid of ME men and European women then the mitochondria of Ms. Wojcicki is 100% non Jewish.
  85. @Tiny Duck
    white Christians the real terrorists in America. Not Muslims. Not BLM. It's you and your parasitic kids.

    Here is white men can do better

    https://twitter.com/edskrein/status/902244967296491520

    Use your privilege to create space for others

    Yes, it is of utmost importance that we honor the race and ethnicities of comic book characters, that is how Hollyweird can do its part to undermine the oppressive hegemony of Evil White Privilege.

    I like when Tiny D*ck lets his mask slip.

    Read More
  86. Paul Rain says:

    Lol. 100% European. More like better than half an alien in all nations.

    Read More
  87. dr kill says:
    @Lurker
    It's not always clear in a mixed group but when you see a lot of Germans (or French) in one place it's pretty clear which is which.

    I was became fully conscious of this effect on my first visit to Ireland. I suddenly got that there really was an Irish 'look', several in fact. Being in England there are a ton of Irish people around (plus lots of people with some Irish ancestry). Being used to seeing us all mixed together I was just not fully conscious of it. Once I could see a lot of Irish people together in one place, it jumped out and that awareness has remained.

    There is an Irish look, it’s called the Buckethead.

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  88. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Thea
    Simmons has publicly expressed gratitude towards Americans and said he likes us as a people and culture. It's not fashionable to say that with his Hollywood crowd. I'll give him a pass.

    That’s because he regards Americans as being on the philosemitic, pro-Israel reservation. The moment they stray off the reservation, he’ll have no use for them.

    “Gene Simmons: ‘Gentiles are for manual labor’”

    http://video.forward.com/video/Gene-Simmons-Gentiles-are-for-m

    “Gene Simmons On Jews in Football: ‘Somebody’s Gotta Own the Teams’”

    https://www.tmz.com/2014/03/28/gene-simmons-jews-football-own-teams-la-kiss/

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  89. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Update: they are now censoring BlackPigeonSpeaks, a channel dealing with politically incorrect topics such as IQ, immigration, and feminism.

    I guess the important question is whether we will be willing to give up power to these scum in 2021. They’ve demonstrated that they will strip us of our freedoms should they ever be given a chance. If they are going to break the social contract by political repression, at what point do we do the same? Couldn’t Trump just call off future elections? At what point do we admit democracy has failed?

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  90. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    “As an aside: I did 23andme. If I’m only 99.7% European, will I still be able to live in the coming all-white utopia?”

    Being white is like the supreme court definition of pornography: you know it when you see it. I sincerely doubt any non-white will take your 23andme results seriously in the future as they are voting to take your property and freedoms. See Zimbabwe and South “kill the Boer” Africa for the future of the US.

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  91. Broski says:
    @Elsewhere
    Anne is more attractive than Susan.

    Probably a source of their different attitudes toward accepting reality. Presumably they both considered Sergey a catch . . .

    Read More
  92. Broski says:
    @Tiny Duck
    white Christians the real terrorists in America. Not Muslims. Not BLM. It's you and your parasitic kids.

    Here is white men can do better

    https://twitter.com/edskrein/status/902244967296491520

    Use your privilege to create space for others

    Dude your flame sucks. Follow whatever Godfrey Elfwick is going by these days for instruction.

    Read More
  93. Olorin says:
    @Lurker
    Of course.

    A parody of lib/leftard 'racial purity' nonsense.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z8jXpAyWMs

    Ha! You beat me to it.

    “I’m a Millennial! It’s not my fault I never learned any survival skills.”

    Speak Freely (regarding Woj Sisters’ censorship)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odw2lyLPd24

    The Cruel Fate of Kekistan (regarding demography being destiny)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYS9fLucyt8

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  94. Broski says:
    @Mr. Anon
    You got to hand it to Sergey Brin, throwing over his wife for a younger and less attractive woman. I guess those Google-glasses double as beer-goggles.

    She satisfies the Jewish guy’s need to marry another Jew AND the white tech dork’s recognition that an Asian girl will actually appreciate his masculinity (such as it is). Hot white chicks only use tech dorks, particularly those of the nebbish persuasion, for their money*. Fertile ground for a cuckoo’s egg.

    I half kid. Brin seems like a relatively alpha tech dude, and in some of Amanda Rosenberg’s google images she’s babeish. Mark Zuckerberg, on the other hand…

    *One of many accurate depictions from Curb Your Enthusiasm.

    Read More
    • Replies: @black sea
    Amanda Rosenberg graduated from the University of Leeds, which -- according to the Times Higher Education -- is ranked 20th in the UK, and 133rd in the world. Her degree is in Communications.

    Prior to taking up with Brin, she was involved with the product management director for Android, who has since left Google. No word as to whether she ever gave James Damore a peck on the cheek.

    Methinks some straight white males took Tiny Duck's exhortations to heart and "used their privilege to create a space for her."
  95. matt says:
    @AM

    As I pointed out there, the biggest problem with the soft-censorship of Taylor’s video is it’s banning of comments, which prevents informed people (like me) from rebutting
     
    It also prevents people like me from rebutting your rebuttal, which amounted to: "But Ethiopia (only) had writing (from Egypt), a few stone churches, and two story houses (but not 3, or cathedrals or Damascus steel)! So it's all wrong!"

    Um, no. I'm sure you can fill up volumes that hyperfocus on a particular tree branch while failing to observe the forest that everyone else is talking about.

    At any rate, I am in agreement that Taylor should take your notes on history and fold them in, because in presenting the whole truth, he'll make his pretty compelling arguments stronger.

    I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts on my last two comments in the other thread. However “anomalous” the Horn of Africa may be, you still have an obligation to explain the anomaly. As I make clear in those last two comments, the fact that there is greater Eurasian admixture in the Horn doesn’t appear to explain its historical performance relative to the rest of sub-Saharan Africa.

    By the way, Ge’ez script is more directly taken from South Arabia, not Egypt. Though ultimately, it does come from Egyptian hieroglyphs, just like all European alphabets ultimately do as well (through the Phoenician alphabet).

    Taylor also made blatantly wrong assertions that had nothing to do with Ethiopia, such as his remarks on Bruce Lahn’s work. I also pointed this out on the other thread.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    you still have an obligation to explain the anomaly.
     
    Not at all. They just exist. If i describe the difference between fish and frogs and note one has gills and the other has lungs, the existence of the odd lungfish doesn't make either category description untrue.

    Taylor also made blatantly wrong assertions that had nothing to do with Ethiopia, such as his remarks on Bruce Lahn’s work. I also pointed this out on the other thread.
     
    Probably not, since you called the Ethiopia stuff "wrong assertions" too. I'm not even vaguely interested in this set of weeds.
  96. Broski says:
    @anonymous-antimarxist

    Of course working this vein of gold is precisely what has gotten David Duke in so much trouble over the decades.
     
    But look at it this way.

    If Steve kicked things up a notch and basically did what David Duke does daily, point out the unique nature of Jewish Hypocrisy, then the ADL and SPLC would have to start calling out Steve Sailer by name for DUKING IT UP.

    That would mean the ADL and SPLC would almost be forced by the even more neurotic SJWs on their left, got to keep one's street cred with the ANTIFA, to work with Silicon Valley de-platform the UNZ review.

    Likewise Ron Unz would be outed as Self-Hating Jew Numero Uno.

    But then Ron Unz has the both the means and motivation to retaliate by making even further contribution to Alt-Right Tech.

    That would be a Bridge Too Far for the Jewish Far Left and the Globalists. Since as we know everybody who is anybody is already reading Steve Sailer & and Unz Review if only so as to not lose complete touch with reality.

    The Unz Review would gain a new huge following from Normies getting their first doses of the red pill and the already rapidly growing millennial and "Generation Z" Alt-Righters who dismiss the Unz Review as too well "Boomer".

    And all the while merely costing Steve and the Unz Review a large portion of their not insignificant hasbara web traffic. Too much reality would damage the sensibility of two many Tel Aviv basement and dingy cubicle dwelling twentysomethings.

    Deplatforming Steve would cause a disturbance in the force, indeed. 300,000 registered users of Storm Front? Whatever. The ISteve blog? Well, that may get Douthat’s attention (and Brooks’s, but we all know he’s too craven to say anything).

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  97. @Thea
    Simmons has publicly expressed gratitude towards Americans and said he likes us as a people and culture. It's not fashionable to say that with his Hollywood crowd. I'll give him a pass.

    Simmons is your classic smug neocon ultra-zionist who loves America merely for what he and “his people” can exploit from it. You may think that is patriotism but I don’t.

    Remember this classic clip from his “reality” cable TV show Gene Simmon’s “Family Jewels”

    Gene Simmons “That Is What Gentiles Are For” – YouTube

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j72hW9RdbdI

    Very few of the hardcore Kiss fans I went to high school with back in the seventies knew that the real Gene Simmons (along with Paul Stanley?) was an anti-drug and alcohol teetotaler who thought drugs and alcohol were for the weak. What they did hear from Simmons was his boasting about having had sex with thousands of teen groupies most of whom were probably high at the time.

    Likewise lots of goyim Kiss fans have tattoos of the band, especially of Simmons

    But does Gene Simmons have any tattoos???

    https://www.quora.com/What-tattoos-does-Gene-Simmons-have

    Gene Simmons has no tattoos. I believe tattoos are taboo in Judaism.
    But most importantly, since his Mother [whom he adores] survived the Holocaust, getting a tattoo would be in extremely bad taste, nevermind how disrespectful.
    He surely never even CONSIDERED getting a tattoo.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jay Fink
    I am a Jew without double standards. I don't have tattoos or take street drugs and wish more of the goyim were the same. Unfortunately some Jews have joined the tattooed herd such as Adam Levine from Maroon 5. My disgust towards tattoos is stronger than my love of fellow Jews.
    , @Alden
    Right, tattoes are forbidden in Judaism.
    , @Thea
    I dunno, just saying something nice about us in public is refreshing. He seems to like his Gentile kids. He is an arrogant ass but eh, he was a rock star.
    , @Jack D
    A lot of current generation (what generation are we up to , Z?) young Jews, male and female, get tattoos. They are even popular in Israel. Tattoos are very fashionable now. When I was growing up, the only people I knew who had tattoos were grizzly old alkies. The only Jews I knew who had tattoos were people like my aunt who had Auschwitz #s on their arms.
  98. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Tiny Duck
    white Christians the real terrorists in America. Not Muslims. Not BLM. It's you and your parasitic kids.

    Here is white men can do better

    https://twitter.com/edskrein/status/902244967296491520

    Use your privilege to create space for others

    Jeremy Lin appreciated it.

    Read More
  99. Anonym says:

    Every tech company founder knows the Microsoft story, and everyone there knows what an IQ fetishist Bill Gates was/is in terms of hiring. Gates has been known to personally phone up brilliant graduates to get them to work for him. They know IQ, they know genetics, they know DNA. What is the chance that Susan does not know that what she spouts is bogus? I think it is remote. I am reminded of this scene from the original Planet of the Apes.

    https://youtu.be/w0MN-0i4yW4

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  100. @Barnard
    The boundaries of Germany have not been consistent over the past 500 years. Do you think there is a big genetic difference between a person whose family has lived in Strasbourg for three or more generations and one who has lived in Stuttgart over the same time? Do you think there are not significant differences between the genetic population from the French Rivera and Normandy? In German,y do you think there would be no distinctions between a native of Bavaria and Schleswig or a town near the Polish border?

    Like others on this thread, I feel I can tell French from German. Perhaps there is a case for differentiating south from north France, but none of these composite pictures are surprising:

    Read More
  101. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Autochthon
    Idris Elba of course issued a similar statement when he refused the rôle of Heimdallr.

    Elba actually hated playing him. Not enough to turn down the money, mind you ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/11195704/Idris-Elba-interview-Marvel-movies-are-torture.html )

    Did it take him a while to shake off Mandela?

    “Mmm. Yeah. I mean, I didn’t quite shake it off.” It seems he didn’t have the chance. “It was really weird,” he begins. “I’d just done eight months in South Africa. I came to England and the day I came back I had to do reshoots on Thor 2.” He raises an eyebrow. “And in the actual scene my hair was different, my…” He stops and gives an exasperated sigh. “I was like, ‘This is torture, man. I don’t want to do this.’ My agent said: ‘You have to, it’s part of the deal.’ ”

    In the scene in question in the superhero movie, “I’m actually falling down from a spaceship, so they had to put me in harness in this green-screen studio. And in between takes I was stuck there, fake hair stuck on to my head with glue, this f—— helmet, while they reset. And I’m thinking: ‘24 hours ago, I was Mandela’. When I walked into the set the extras called me Madiba. I was literally walking in this man’s boots. [Within] six months, the crew, we were all so in love with this film we had made. I was him. I was Mandela, practically,” he insists.

    “Then there I was, in this stupid harness, with this wig and this sword and these contact lenses. It ripped my heart out.”

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  102. @Numinous

    OT: More immigriping… From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.
    .
    .
    .
    In their own land they’d be squatting and shitting in the street.
     
    When the British first encountered India, the latter was arguably the more advanced civilization in everything except naval technology. That's why the British bothered to sail halfway around the world; to buy goods they couldn't get back home.

    And, by the way, you all (British, etc.) were shitting in pitchers by your bedsides around that time and for a while to come, so the comparison of pooping habits isn't so flattering to your lot.

    As UNICEF says, take your poo to the loo, India.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    New York City has no public toilets, so the growing number of homeless too don't take their poo to the loo...
  103. matt says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Regarding Taylor, I agree with you that the comments should be left on. Open debate is good.

    Checked out some of your comments. You definitely have an interest in Africa. Your comments on IQ and genetics are detailed and knowledgeable, but you don't stand up well to counter-arguments from similarly trained opponents. Indeed, you often leave the best retorts unanswered, which isn't a good sign.

    However, I did track down your views on nature vs nurture:


    I can say that at present the balance of evidence suggests that it is more likely than not that, in the same environment, white and black Americans would develop the same phenotypic IQ.

     

    I simply don't understand (yes, I understand that you are extraordinarily intelligent - though only because of environment ;) - and I'm not) how you can make that statement. The evidence points to a significant genetic component to intelligence and that average IQ varies among the different races and ethnicities.

    Commentator res does a nice job of takin you to task:


    Given “same” I take it you are arguing for a 0% genetic contribution. If that is not so please clarify what you meant by that statement.

    I don’t see how you can believe that given the evidence I cited. If nothing else it is absolutely clear that IQ SNPs discovered so far differ in frequency between African and European populations. It is highly unlikely that allows for a genetic contribution of exactly 0.

    Thanks for engaging in a reasonable fashion. Hope you are around for follow up as more genetic data comes in. Would you care to place any bets on the outcome?

     

    Of course, the evidence may change. I'm fine with that. This is one case where confirmation bias isn't an issue; I'd love to be wrong. But the studies that you have cited just don't stand up to the studies that show a genetic component. Luckily, genetic research should give some evidence over the next decade or two, so we can leave our little spat alone and just wait for the data to arrive.

    The evidence points to a significant genetic component to intelligence and that average IQ varies among the different races and ethnicities.

    The evidence points to a significant genetic component to intelligence differences within groups. The evidence also points to large differences in average IQ between groups. These two statements don’t make the hypothesis that the latter group differences are partly genetic any more likely. To see why, read this comment of mine.

    Hereditarians have been making this argument since the late 1960s. (The latest repetition of it by a well known figure that I’m aware of was Charles Murray’s use of it on Sam Harris’s podcast. Interestingly, none of the responses to Murray that I saw challenged him on the point where he’s most obviously wrong, in my view). They should have known it was wrong by the late 1980s. Yet they keep making this argument, over and over again. It’s enough to make you suspect they don’t have anything else.

    Commentator res does a nice job of takin you to task:

    I don’t really think he does. I’ll admit that the more technical genetic arguments are out of my wheelhouse, but as far I can tell, the fact that SNPs that do a good job of predicting IQ in Europeans (but not necessarily in Africans) are found with a higher frequency in Europeans than they are in Africans doesn’t at all make “highly unlikely… a genetic contribution of exactly 0″. (See this paper).

    I’d say there’s probably a lot of things that make a genetic contribution of exactly zero unlikely, for the same reason that any precise estimate is unlikely as well (It’s highly unlikely that your guess of 50/50 is exactly right). It may be, for example, that Europeans are a little genetically superior to Africans when it comes to IQ. Or it may be that Europeans are a little genetically inferior to Africans when it comes to IQ.

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    • Replies: @res

    These two statements don’t make the hypothesis that the latter group differences are partly genetic any more likely.
     
    They go a little more in that direction when you add a third statement that there are substantial differences in allele frequencies (i.e. genetic composition) between populations. Including, as I pointed out, SNPs that have been detected as IQ related.

    I don’t really think he does.
     
    Well, at least I did enough of a good job to get you to back away from "same." ; )

    Look, I'm aware enough to know that there is no slam dunk evidence right now that is going to convince you that the IQ difference between the races (you do agree there is a black-white phenotypic difference in the US, right?) has a significant genetic component.

    All I can say is to observe that I look forward to there being more convincing evidence (either way) available. Do you? Would you like to place a bet on what that evidence will lead us to eventually conclude?

    While we are waiting for that, perhaps you could explain how environmental effects explain ALL of this: http://www.unz.com/isteve/2008-sat-scores-by-race-by-income/

    http://www.jbhe.com/latest/news/1-22-09/satracialgapfigure.gif
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country

    To see why, read this comment of mine.
     
    So you're hanging your hat on the Flynn effect.

    But you'd have to have whites stop improving their IQ scores and blacks continue to do so - a lot. That seems highly unlikely.

    I’d say there’s probably a lot of things that make a genetic contribution of exactly zero unlikely, for the same reason that any precise estimate is unlikely as well (It’s highly unlikely that your guess of 50/50 is exactly right).
     
    You're like the guy who says that there's no such thing as the color yellow because there are different shades of yellow. No kidding that the 50-50 estimate is exactly right because, you know, it's an estimate.

    The question is does the estimate work. It's like modeling. If the model was reality, it's be called reality. The question is does the model help us get the job done better than anything else.

    It may be, for example, that Europeans are a little genetically superior to Africans when it comes to IQ. Or it may be that Europeans are a little genetically inferior to Africans when it comes to IQ.

     

    Where's the evidence for that. You demand exactness in other's arguments but seem fine with flights of fancy in your own.

    The preponderence of evidence points to genetics being responsible for some portion - 25% to 75% - of average IQ difference among various population groups (I'm sure that you'd have an issue of I used the inexact term "race"). Is it perfect? No. Is it conclusive? No. But it's the best working information that we have.

    You are demanding incontestable proof. In that, you are correct. We don't have it. Fine. But in the meantime, the world demands that decisions be made. That polices are enacted. Right now, the world bases those decisions on a belief - and, yes, for them it is a belief - that there are no genetic differences among population groups.

    If there was nothing at stake, we could wait for incontestable proof, but we can't.
  104. njguy73 says:
    @sarahA
    Snapchat CEO Evan Spiegel married Victoria Secret supermodel Miranda Kerr, come on. Everyone loves hot women.

    And after eight years and two kids Spiegel will get sick of his model wife’s diva shit, and realize that beyond the hotness there’s not much. By then Snapchat will be faced with major competition, and he’ll realize that instead of arm candy he now needs to hook up with a calculating, conniving climber who only needs to be a HB6, so long as she knows how to be his orthodox-thought-enforcer. Anyone upsets Snapchat’s apple-cart, she’s bury them where Susan Wojcicki buried James Damore.

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  105. njguy73 says:
    @air.liquide
    I'm surprised Steve hasn't mentioned yet that Anne dated A-Rod. Adding baseball and interracial relationships to this discussion would enhance its Istve-ian synergy.

    I’m surprised Steve hasn’t mentioned yet that Anne dated A-Rod.

    I’m surprised that you made that comment without reading the article.

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  106. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Why can’t someone be 100% Ashkenazi Jewish?

    I mean, of course, no one is 100% anything, but Ashkenazi Jews usually test 95%-99.9% Ashkenazi on 23andme. Whereas, say, a Polish person like Wojcicki’s father tests as a bit more diverse.

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  107. @Numinous

    OT: More immigriping… From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.
    .
    .
    .
    In their own land they’d be squatting and shitting in the street.
     
    When the British first encountered India, the latter was arguably the more advanced civilization in everything except naval technology. That's why the British bothered to sail halfway around the world; to buy goods they couldn't get back home.

    And, by the way, you all (British, etc.) were shitting in pitchers by your bedsides around that time and for a while to come, so the comparison of pooping habits isn't so flattering to your lot.

    Go back to India…And take Sanjay Pinchar with you.

    I support a National Origins Immigration Policy that excludes the Hindus and Sihks from India…

    The Hindus are comming to America to enthusiastically vote The Historic Native Born White American Majority Working Class into a racial minority within the borders of America….And I’ll make the assumption that your people are not street shitters…for the sake of argument….

    Steve

    For at least ten years the Gateway National Refuge in Queens has been plagued by colorful-candle-lit-little-rafts containing the ashes of deceased Indian Immigrants..What next?….The Hudson River transformed into the Ganges River with decaying corpses floating down the bucolic Hudson Valley?

    Read More
  108. @Anonymous
    OT: More immigriping... From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.

    http://littleindia.com/m-night-shyamalan-kal-penn-indian-origin-celebrities-slammed-trump/

    From M Night Shyamalan to Kal Penn, Indian-origin Stars Against Trump
    With Padma Lakshmi criticising Trump once again, here is a look at other Indian American celebrities who have condemned POTUS.

    ...Indian American model-turned-author Padma Lakshmi recently slammed US President Donald Trump, saying he is a “menace to society”. She was speaking at the 8th Mountain Echoes Literary Festival in Thimphu, Bhutan. This is not the first time the author has lashed out against the US president.

    Last year, during the run-up to the elections, the Variety magazine quoted her as saying: “Even if he wasn’t the racist buffoon that he is making himself out to be, I probably wouldn’t vote for him. But as an immigrant, I obviously don’t see his worldview as mine.”

    She added: “We are a country of immigrants, so to say you should put a wall up or limit certain ethnicities is sort of antithetical to what this country is about. He himself is an immigrant of immigrant descent. Unless you are from the Cherokee nation, your ancestors are immigrants so you may be an umpteenth generation immigrant but there you are, squatting on someone else’s land.”...
     

    In their own land they'd be squatting and shitting in the street.

    “In their own land they’d be squatting and shitting in the street.”

    Don’t think so! Of course, there are plenty who for reasons only known to them do, but to suggest successful people, just because they are who they are would do so is absurd for the same reason that just because some whites are crack/meth addicts, all whites are the same, which is far from truth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    Because a large majority of a billion people in India do shit in the street, while a small minority of YT in certain regions are meth heads.

    Maybe have a glass of blessed Ganges water filled with human filth and think it over.
  109. Jay Fink says:
    @anonymous-antimarxist
    Simmons is your classic smug neocon ultra-zionist who loves America merely for what he and "his people" can exploit from it. You may think that is patriotism but I don't.

    Remember this classic clip from his "reality" cable TV show Gene Simmon's "Family Jewels"

    Gene Simmons "That Is What Gentiles Are For" - YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j72hW9RdbdI

    Very few of the hardcore Kiss fans I went to high school with back in the seventies knew that the real Gene Simmons (along with Paul Stanley?) was an anti-drug and alcohol teetotaler who thought drugs and alcohol were for the weak. What they did hear from Simmons was his boasting about having had sex with thousands of teen groupies most of whom were probably high at the time.

    Likewise lots of goyim Kiss fans have tattoos of the band, especially of Simmons

    But does Gene Simmons have any tattoos???
    https://www.quora.com/What-tattoos-does-Gene-Simmons-have


    Gene Simmons has no tattoos. I believe tattoos are taboo in Judaism.
    But most importantly, since his Mother [whom he adores] survived the Holocaust, getting a tattoo would be in extremely bad taste, nevermind how disrespectful.
    He surely never even CONSIDERED getting a tattoo.
     

    I am a Jew without double standards. I don’t have tattoos or take street drugs and wish more of the goyim were the same. Unfortunately some Jews have joined the tattooed herd such as Adam Levine from Maroon 5. My disgust towards tattoos is stronger than my love of fellow Jews.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    A while back The Daily Stormer had a series of articles on Orthodox Jews who owned tattoo parlors in NYC and have helped popularize the tattoo phenomena in the media targeting GenXers and millennials

    www.tabletmag.com/scroll/191666/jews-and-tattoos-a-new-york-story

    Again I think Jews have a typically hypocritical attitude towards tattooing as with many other things like porn. If the net effect is to lead lots and lots of goyim to permanently fall down a rabbit hole then occasional Jewish causality as collateral damage in the great war against the goy is an acceptable loss.

    The following link concerning the heavily tattooed "Alt-Porn" performer Joanna Angel is a prime example.
    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/each-time-it-s-more-fun-1.225411
  110. @Autochthon
    Her statement would be news to the hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions?) of Amerindians who've no ancestors among the Cherokee. I suppose she isn't not entirely awakened yet; perhaps she needs another cup of coffee....

    In any event, many of us do have admixture with Amerindians (though not so many as like to claim so); certainly more of us than of of Hindoos who showed up on airplanes in the past century (i.e., more than zero...).

    I any event, by her lights all nations outside Africa's savannahs* are "nations of immigrants," so she had better get to work chastising her own government about it's extant walls on the Bangladeshi border rather than mine about its merely planned walls.

    *Though presumably that area's original hominid inhabitants have also long since been displaced....

    Elizabeth Warren, is that you? My golly Pocahontas, how long have you been frequenting at UNZ?

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  111. Alden says:
    @Kirt
    Kind of interesting how neither 23andme nor Ancestry.com are able to distinguish genetically between French and Germans. Given the amount of warfare over the centuries between French and Germans, this belies the always rather dubious assertion that genetically similar people get along better than those with more genetic differences. Our Lord had it right when he said, "A man's enemies shall be of his own household".

    That’s very true. One of my siblings DNA came back 30% French/German so it applies to all of us. She did ask about it and was assured that French and Germans have the same DNA.

    They are probably the same mix of indigenous Celt and later German invaders. The Nordic Protestant wing of White Nationalism will never accept that the Latin language non reformation French are the same as their much admired Germans

    Even on amren I’ve read comments that all French are part African from ancient migration.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    A lot of Americans with Southern ancestry have French and German blood. The South had more of a mix of blood than New England. Some people with East Anglian ancestry in New England have a problem with too much intermarriage, just like in parts of the South. Dick Cheney had fun by saying some of the backwoods people in Appalachia were inbred. There are plenty of examples of overly inbred people in New England too.

    You might have a Southerner with a British surname who has Dutch, German, French, Swiss or other blood. Remember that the South was pioneered and settled by people from Pennsylvania, Maryland and other mid-Atlantic states, along with the coastal areas of the South.

    Some New Englanders have almost exclusively East Anglian ancestry. God bless them. I love true New Englanders.
    , @Autochthon
    Do people really believe what you write? The Franks are Germanic; the Gauls these Franks (and the Romans before them...) displaced were Celts. Who argues French are not primarily Germanic and Celtic, and how in light if the incontrovertibe facts? Is the idea that because a Romance language, rather than a Germanic language, continued as the vernacular the Franks are not truly Germanic? I don't know, I suppose the vanquished Romans did contribute a significant genetic substrate to the entire affair in a way that didn't occur in Germany – but the same could be said of the (therefore not Germanic?) peoples of Britain, who were also ruled by Rome once upon a time before the Angles came....
  112. grapesoda says:
    @sarahA
    Snapchat CEO Evan Spiegel married Victoria Secret supermodel Miranda Kerr, come on. Everyone loves hot women.

    Everyone loves hot women.

    This kind of thinking is why American women typically have such bad attitudes. I don’t love, or like, people who have bad attitudes, regardless of what they look like. In other countries, women are taught how to act, just like everyone else.

    But I wouldn’t expect someone who doesn’t know the difference between “Victoria Secret” and “Victoria’s Secret” to be able to understand such nuances.

    Read More
  113. Anonym says:
    @Anon
    POC 1 - People of Color

    POC2 - Party of CEO's

    POC2 in a nutshell:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIeyAu9VoAQo5Ay.jpg

    Twitter co-founder – “my app elected Trump” basically. That’s quite the humblebrag.

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  114. grapesoda says:
    @Whiskey
    Men who can date hot women. Those who can't date ugly women. Fixed it for you.

    Depends how hard you have to try to get them and how into you they are. Most socially deemed “hot” women expect to you to kiss their ass and men shouldn’t stoop to that level.

    Cute, pleasant, and into you beats “hot,” unless you’re talking about promiscuous meaningless sex or vain status posturing.

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  115. Alden says:
    @anonymous-antimarxist
    Simmons is your classic smug neocon ultra-zionist who loves America merely for what he and "his people" can exploit from it. You may think that is patriotism but I don't.

    Remember this classic clip from his "reality" cable TV show Gene Simmon's "Family Jewels"

    Gene Simmons "That Is What Gentiles Are For" - YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j72hW9RdbdI

    Very few of the hardcore Kiss fans I went to high school with back in the seventies knew that the real Gene Simmons (along with Paul Stanley?) was an anti-drug and alcohol teetotaler who thought drugs and alcohol were for the weak. What they did hear from Simmons was his boasting about having had sex with thousands of teen groupies most of whom were probably high at the time.

    Likewise lots of goyim Kiss fans have tattoos of the band, especially of Simmons

    But does Gene Simmons have any tattoos???
    https://www.quora.com/What-tattoos-does-Gene-Simmons-have


    Gene Simmons has no tattoos. I believe tattoos are taboo in Judaism.
    But most importantly, since his Mother [whom he adores] survived the Holocaust, getting a tattoo would be in extremely bad taste, nevermind how disrespectful.
    He surely never even CONSIDERED getting a tattoo.
     

    Right, tattoes are forbidden in Judaism.

    Read More
  116. @Alden
    That's very true. One of my siblings DNA came back 30% French/German so it applies to all of us. She did ask about it and was assured that French and Germans have the same DNA.

    They are probably the same mix of indigenous Celt and later German invaders. The Nordic Protestant wing of White Nationalism will never accept that the Latin language non reformation French are the same as their much admired Germans

    Even on amren I've read comments that all French are part African from ancient migration.

    A lot of Americans with Southern ancestry have French and German blood. The South had more of a mix of blood than New England. Some people with East Anglian ancestry in New England have a problem with too much intermarriage, just like in parts of the South. Dick Cheney had fun by saying some of the backwoods people in Appalachia were inbred. There are plenty of examples of overly inbred people in New England too.

    You might have a Southerner with a British surname who has Dutch, German, French, Swiss or other blood. Remember that the South was pioneered and settled by people from Pennsylvania, Maryland and other mid-Atlantic states, along with the coastal areas of the South.

    Some New Englanders have almost exclusively East Anglian ancestry. God bless them. I love true New Englanders.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Germans used to be Americas largest ethnic group, a bit more than 30 percent. I don't know if that's still true. We know most of our family history for hundreds of years and there is not one German name, just French and English, not Scots or Irish among our ancestors.
    So that's why French/ German was such a surprise.

    But the German Nordic admiration society of White Nationalists doesn't want to believe that French/German DNA is the same.
  117. syonredux says:

    Off-topic,

    Get WOKE to the Becky menace:

    Becky: (noun); a white woman who uses her privilege as a weapon, a ladder or an excuse. Ex: “A random Becky hit me up on Twitter to explain why not all white women are racist.”

    Rebecca

    This is the standard, off-the shelf Becky with no adornments, around whom the entire world revolves. When “alt-righters” recite the 14 words, “Because the beauty of the white Aryan woman must not perish from the earth,” this is about whom they are talking. This is for whom they made Forever 21. This is for whom they make Pantene hair conditioner. This is for whom they made America.

    Famous Rebeccas: Taylor Swift; Megyn Kelly; the girl in your study group who makes an A while doing none of the work.

    Becca

    The most innocent of all Beckies, she volunteers at the local Boys & Girls Club teaching underprivileged youths. She voted for Barack Obama. She wears a safety pin and has a Black Lives Matter T-shirt. One of Becca’s best friends is black. She is an “ally.” Did I mention she voted for Barack Obama?

    Becca wants to help … as long as it is convenient and comfortable. Even though Becca isn’t a racist, her idea of black people is of a downtrodden underclass that just needs a little help from benevolent white people. Becca is pure of heart and holds no animosity toward anyone. She is willing to “do the work … ” But not really.

    Famous Beccas: Hillary Clinton; Katy Perry; white women who work at “nonprofits.”

    Beckeisha

    Part of the privilege of Beckydom rests in its members’ unflagging belief that everything belongs to them. For this subset of Beckies, culture, history and black penis are all disposable commodities for them to use and discard at their whim. In their belief system, you can’t be offended when they appropriate a culture or call something “ghetto,” because they don’t have a racist bone in their body. Plus, they once had a black boner inside their body, so how can they be racist?

    Famous Beckeishas: Anyone with the last name “Kardashian”; Miley Cyrus; Rachel Dolezal; white girls who twerk.

    Reba

    Reba believes in equality. Reba is a feminist. Reba is “woke.”

    Reba believes in a woman’s right to choose and wore a pink pussy hat to the Women’s March, but Reba believes all lives matter. Reba speaks of the glass ceiling but wonders why black people always play “the race card.” Reba believes that a woman has the right to do whatever she wants with her body, but agrees that your hair is “unprofessional.” Reba loves Beyoncé’s “Single Ladies” but wonders why she had to pay homage to the Black Panthers at the Super Bowl and mention “Negro noses” in “Formation.” Reba cried for Justine Damond and Heather Heyer, but if you mention Rekia Boyd or Sandra Bland, Reba will ask, “Is that the one who was on the Olympics gymnastics team?”

    Famous Rebas: Amy Schumer; Lena Dunham; Jezebel readers.

    Beckzilla

    Beckzillas don’t give a fuck. They roam the streets stomping on everything, setting the world ablaze by spewing the flames of privilege every time they breathe.

    Famous Beckzillas: Betsy DeVos; Betty Shelby; Kellyanne Conway; Tomi Lahren.

    http://www.theroot.com/the-five-types-of-becky-1798543210

    Read More
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Thanks for posting, very interesting. I guess the conclusion is that no matter what kind of white woman you are, you're a racist. If you're "willing to do the work" (whatever that means) you're still racist. Even if you have sex with black men, you're a racist.

    The game is rigged, but you can't lose if you don't play.
  118. @Numinous

    OT: More immigriping… From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.
    .
    .
    .
    In their own land they’d be squatting and shitting in the street.
     
    When the British first encountered India, the latter was arguably the more advanced civilization in everything except naval technology. That's why the British bothered to sail halfway around the world; to buy goods they couldn't get back home.

    And, by the way, you all (British, etc.) were shitting in pitchers by your bedsides around that time and for a while to come, so the comparison of pooping habits isn't so flattering to your lot.

    Settle down before you start burning widows alive again.

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  119. BenKenobi says:
    @Autochthon
    While I take your general point, I expand upon Thea's defence of Simmons: He has never said anything like "drugs are for goyim." Rather, he and Paul Stanley (also Jewish and using an assumed name to better fit as an entertainer, albeit born in America) are both patriotic, relatively traditional Americans who have repeatedly explained that while they do not themselves smoke, get drunk, etc., they believe any decision to do such things is a personal choice for the individual based upon his own values and preferences, and that they do not judge anyone one way or another who may choose to do these things, except for the (obvious and inarguable) point that doing such things to the detriment of one's health and functioning is inadvisable (a major reason for to their parting ways with Frehley and Criss was those two's problems with substance abuse ...).

    What's more, rock 'n' roll and partying need not involve drugs. Rock 'n' roll is about independence, freedom, dancing, music, and fun whilst letting one's hair down, as it were. The drugs are often coincidental, and that's (in this tee-totaler's opinion) a shame. Furthermore, Kiss' music, including the song you cite, does not glorify drugs (it does contain occasional light-hearted allusions, as with "Cold Gin" and "Detroit Rock City").

    Yeah but the whole anti-drug/alcohol stance is completely discredited by the rampant sexcapades with young groupies (I wonder how much they were abstaining btw).

    At least in my opinion. If you’re gonna be whoring around, don’t do things by half-measures.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I argue the difference is of type, not mere degree; sex, unlike drugs, is not inherently deteimebtsl to health (they swear they always wore raincoats, and, being smart guys, I cannot imagine they would not given the exposure to pathogens and paternity-suits else...).

    Here they are discussing the topic with Dr. Joyce Brothers, of all people.

    It's bizarre I find myself referring to Kiss every ten posts or so; I swear they don't pay me. I just admire them as great examples of people who succeeded by busting their asses, believing in themselves, and never giving up – all without terribly freakish inborn talents (indeed with many obstacles: how many people born deaf in one ear become professional musicians with pipes like Paul Stanley's?)

    Their music is about sex, good times, love, and positivity: believing in yourself, persevering, supporting friends and family, etc. ("Stand," "Hard Times," "Crazy Nights," "Reason To Live," "Rise To It"...). It's very refreshing in an age where rock has increasingly become about posturing and bitching about the Injustice of the Month.

    , @Broski
    Are you familiar with Portnoy's Complaint? Simmons lives down to all the worst stereotypes about his people.
  120. gda says:
    @Numinous

    OT: More immigriping… From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.
    .
    .
    .
    In their own land they’d be squatting and shitting in the street.
     
    When the British first encountered India, the latter was arguably the more advanced civilization in everything except naval technology. That's why the British bothered to sail halfway around the world; to buy goods they couldn't get back home.

    And, by the way, you all (British, etc.) were shitting in pitchers by your bedsides around that time and for a while to come, so the comparison of pooping habits isn't so flattering to your lot.

    “..the latter was arguably the more advanced civilization in everything except naval technology. ”

    Really? Who exactly argues that? A rag tag few British mariners conquered India because they had better ships? Seems they had better weapons too, at minimum. Better planning as well. And so on.

    “That’s why the British bothered to sail halfway around the world; to buy goods they couldn’t get back home.”

    And that makes the Indians more advanced exactly how again? The fact that they were able to grow spices in a place that was geographically ideal for growing spices? Or were they really after the advanced technology and knowledge of Indian civilization? From which they fashioned the Industrial Revolution.

    This truth has been hidden for years. Surely you owe us the details of how the great Indian Civilization was co-opted by a bunch of British savages.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    Don't much about the rest of your harangue but on one thing you are absolutely correct: The British were savages, bloodthirsty and uncouth ignorant savages...
    , @AM

    The fact that they were able to grow spices in a place that was geographically ideal for growing spices?
     
    Thank you. I had no idea how bad fake history was becoming.

    India had tea and spices and nothing more. The tea and spices were what the Brits (and the Dutch) wanted. It appears that the Brits took over India because it was well...easy and convenient. They didn't invade the place, that's for sure. Ouch.

    Also, I've confirmed this more than once: yoga are Danish gym exercises introduced to India in the late 18th century and developed extensively by Indians who noted the Brits like sports. India borrows a lot.
  121. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    OT: More immigriping... From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.

    http://littleindia.com/m-night-shyamalan-kal-penn-indian-origin-celebrities-slammed-trump/

    From M Night Shyamalan to Kal Penn, Indian-origin Stars Against Trump
    With Padma Lakshmi criticising Trump once again, here is a look at other Indian American celebrities who have condemned POTUS.

    ...Indian American model-turned-author Padma Lakshmi recently slammed US President Donald Trump, saying he is a “menace to society”. She was speaking at the 8th Mountain Echoes Literary Festival in Thimphu, Bhutan. This is not the first time the author has lashed out against the US president.

    Last year, during the run-up to the elections, the Variety magazine quoted her as saying: “Even if he wasn’t the racist buffoon that he is making himself out to be, I probably wouldn’t vote for him. But as an immigrant, I obviously don’t see his worldview as mine.”

    She added: “We are a country of immigrants, so to say you should put a wall up or limit certain ethnicities is sort of antithetical to what this country is about. He himself is an immigrant of immigrant descent. Unless you are from the Cherokee nation, your ancestors are immigrants so you may be an umpteenth generation immigrant but there you are, squatting on someone else’s land.”...
     

    In their own land they'd be squatting and shitting in the street.

    Indian PSA: “Take the Poo to the Look”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_peUxE_

    Why do they make so many programmers when they really need plumbers?

    Read More
  122. @songbird
    I recently saw an amusing TV commercial for 23andme.

    Young, mixed-race woman finds out she is part SE Asian, goes to Vietman(?), is surrounded by Asian people. Finds out she is part African, goes to an African country is surrounded by black people playing chess. Finds out she is part Scandinavian, goes to Iceland, swims alone in a hot spring with the backdrop of snowy mountains - not even one white person.

    I saw one in the similar vein where the woman is Spanish, Italian, North African, and Lebanese and talks on about how she’s from “all around the world”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @songbird
    I definitely see a lot of commercials which seem to be pushing a multi-racial ideology. What was funny to me was mainly how they framed the commercial.

    It's my thought that most white Americans know their roots, at least in a vague way, same thing with Asians, Hispanics, and Indians, so it is a boring product for them. I'll bet there are a relatively more mixed-race people who never knew their father or some of their grandparents. Many blacks are in the same boat, but history should at least point them to certain regions.
  123. Sergey Brin married Anne in his mid 30′s, and pretty soon realized he could do a lot better, as he was caught sleeping around with another Google employee. And speaking of office shenanigans at Google, rumor has it that the other co-founder, Larry Page, and former Yahoo CEO Marissa Mayer were an item through most of the 2000′s. Apparently they had bad breakup, because after Page resumed CEO duties after a brief hiatus, Mayer’s career at Google mysteriously came to a standstill, which is why she jumped ship to Yahoo.

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  124. @Thea
    I though Ashkenazi meant 50% Middle Eastern so isn't she 75% European 25% Middle Eastern?

    A good point.

    It may be that Middle Eastern and Europeans share a lot of genes, but I would have thought there’d be something.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It's because 23andMe has defined Ashkenazi ancestry under the European category beforehand. If they had defined it as Middle Eastern, or as half Middle Eastern, then the results would vary accordingly.
  125. @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    "In their own land they’d be squatting and shitting in the street."

    Don't think so! Of course, there are plenty who for reasons only known to them do, but to suggest successful people, just because they are who they are would do so is absurd for the same reason that just because some whites are crack/meth addicts, all whites are the same, which is far from truth.

    Because a large majority of a billion people in India do shit in the street, while a small minority of YT in certain regions are meth heads.

    Maybe have a glass of blessed Ganges water filled with human filth and think it over.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    There is an epidemic of meth addiction among whites... I would worry about it over whether Indians defecate in the streets or not... the first is life threatening while the second is mere necessity... instead of making bogus claims, try to save your peeps, DUDE!
  126. utu says:
    @res
    One of us is not getting it. My point was that your point depends on 50.2 > 50. That difference is a sub-percent distinction.

    If you think it's personal then ask yourself why I also call out points of yours I think are good. I do confess I am tired of the low SNR (signal to noise ratio) I see when reading your comments. That accompanied by your attitude is not a good combination.

    Complaining about low SNR is the last excuse for the swine that keeps missing the pearls.

    It is not about 0.2%. It is about being close or almost 50%. There are no 100% AJs in 23andMe. More like 90% at most. So the daughter of AJ mother and non-AJ father can’t be 50% AJ unless the non-AJ father contributed to the AJ part.

    When coming up with the markers and algorithm 23andMe had to compromise between two opposite demands: minimize the number of false positives and maximize detection of the self-identified AJs which in case of AJs is hard as they are ME-E hybrid and thus everybody is partly European. The issues false positives and being the “pure blood” to AJs are more important than to any other ethnic group.

    If the method pushes too hard to make the self-identified AJs 100% genetically AJ then there will be lots of Europeans who according to 23andMe will have some AJ ancestry w/o ever having J or ME ancestors.

    I wonder whether in case of AJs 23andMe uses some nonlinear decision tree algorithm? Do they ask about your ethnic identification?

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    More like 90% at most.
     
    Comment 76 (a response to you!) gives an example of someone who was stated as 98.5%. You understand I would take you much more seriously if you were less quick to make incorrect assumptions and better about owning your errors when they are pointed out, right?

    I have heard comments that 23andMe may overstate Ashkenazi ancestry, but have never really looked into it.

    Complaining about low SNR is the last excuse for the swine that keeps missing the pearls.
     
    The pearls are buried in so much feces that hopefully I can be excused if I miss some. This series of comments by you is not of the pearl form AFAICT.

    P.S. There is a difference between me calling your comments feces and you implying that I am a swine. One of those is much more personal than the other.
  127. @yaqub the mad scientist
    As UNICEF says, take your poo to the loo, India.

    New York City has no public toilets, so the growing number of homeless too don’t take their poo to the loo…

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    New York City has no public toilets, so the growing number of homeless too don’t take their poo to the loo…
     
    Life has to be difficult to navigate for you.
    , @jim jones
    The public toilets in London used to be free but now they are pay-to-go, I prefer to find a nearby pub
    , @yaqub the mad scientist
    I believe there's a term for your problem in making a proper comparison here- orders of magnitude.
  128. @matt
    It depends on what you mean by "starting position" (it's always useful to choose precision over vagueness, wherever possible). As this essay points out, there is a difference between what makes for a reasonable hypothesis, and what makes for a reasonable belief.

    For those of us in the real world, we have to use the information that we have. We have to make decisions based on incomplete information.

    Therefore, we act on reasonable hypotheses until new information comes along. We don’t have to turn them into beliefs.

    You do it every day. We all do.

    This isn’t a philosophy class. It’s the real world with real consequences.

    You’re a smart guy who doesn’t like the evidence so you’re using debate skills to maneuver around it. Good luck.

    This is why I love my work. You find out very quickly who the guys are who can get the job done and who are the guys who can talk. You’re the latter.

    Read More
    • Agree: res
    • Replies: @res
    Nice response. That "type" is tiresome. It is unfortunate that they seem more and more to be dominating our "elites."
    , @AM

    This is why I love my work. You find out very quickly who the guys are who can get the job done and who are the guys who can talk. You’re the latter.
     
    Matt is a pretty typical modern academic type. It's kinda why college has become a place where students more survive than improve their minds.
  129. utu says:
    @TomSchmidt
    More ofyour DNA comes from your mother than your father, when you count mitochondria. Perhaps that?

    If it is true that Ashkenazi Jews are a hybrid of ME men and European women then the mitochondria of Ms. Wojcicki is 100% non Jewish.

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  130. black sea says:
    @Broski
    She satisfies the Jewish guy's need to marry another Jew AND the white tech dork's recognition that an Asian girl will actually appreciate his masculinity (such as it is). Hot white chicks only use tech dorks, particularly those of the nebbish persuasion, for their money*. Fertile ground for a cuckoo's egg.

    I half kid. Brin seems like a relatively alpha tech dude, and in some of Amanda Rosenberg's google images she's babeish. Mark Zuckerberg, on the other hand...

    *One of many accurate depictions from Curb Your Enthusiasm.

    Amanda Rosenberg graduated from the University of Leeds, which — according to the Times Higher Education — is ranked 20th in the UK, and 133rd in the world. Her degree is in Communications.

    Prior to taking up with Brin, she was involved with the product management director for Android, who has since left Google. No word as to whether she ever gave James Damore a peck on the cheek.

    Methinks some straight white males took Tiny Duck’s exhortations to heart and “used their privilege to create a space for her.”

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  131. @gda
    "..the latter was arguably the more advanced civilization in everything except naval technology. "

    Really? Who exactly argues that? A rag tag few British mariners conquered India because they had better ships? Seems they had better weapons too, at minimum. Better planning as well. And so on.

    "That’s why the British bothered to sail halfway around the world; to buy goods they couldn’t get back home."

    And that makes the Indians more advanced exactly how again? The fact that they were able to grow spices in a place that was geographically ideal for growing spices? Or were they really after the advanced technology and knowledge of Indian civilization? From which they fashioned the Industrial Revolution.

    This truth has been hidden for years. Surely you owe us the details of how the great Indian Civilization was co-opted by a bunch of British savages.

    Don’t much about the rest of your harangue but on one thing you are absolutely correct: The British were savages, bloodthirsty and uncouth ignorant savages…

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    Don’t much about the rest of your harangue but on one thing you are absolutely correct: The British were savages, bloodthirsty and uncouth ignorant savages…
     
    Yeah, outlawing widow burning, insisting on bathrooms, imparting a universal language to a place without one.

    Sad. I have no idea how India coped.
    , @Broski
    Take up the White Man's burden -
    The savage wars of peace -
    Fill full the mouth of famine
    And bid the sickness cease;
    And when your goal is nearest
    The end for others sought,
    Watch Sloth and heathen Folly
    Bring all your hopes to nought.

    Take up the White Man's burden -
    And reap his old reward,
    The blame of those ye better,
    The hate of those ye guard -
    The cry of hosts ye humour
    (Ah slowly !) towards the light:-
    "Why brought ye us from bondage,
    "Our loved Egyptian night ?"
    , @gda
    Uncouth? Yes, no doubt. Travelling to India in 1600 wasn't for the faint of heart.

    Bloodthirsty? You've obviously mistaken the British for their Indian sepoys who comprised around 96% of the British East India Company's "army".

    Savages? You mean like throwing live wives on their dead husband's funeral pyre? Or performing "baby-dropping"? Or female infanticide? Honour killing?

    The British in India with EIC were the ones stealing the Company blind. No doubt unpleasant characters, most of them. Luckily the Raj eventually took over and all was well.
    , @3g4me
    @126 Pachyderm Pachyderma : "The British were savages, bloodthirsty and uncouth ignorant savages…"

    Always amusing when Han Chinese and dot-Indians come to a functional White country for education or a job unavailable to them in their home society and country, settle down in a White-style home and frequently appropriate a White wife to improve their genetic progeny's vitally important complexion, and then frequent an HBD -centric American blog to proclaim their genetic and cultural superiority and bitch about Americans specifically or Europeans in general. Immigrates immigriping somehow doesn't do them justice.

    I propose more active measures. Time will tell which it will be, but whatever occurs will be to the immigrates' shock and eternal recrimination (a la numinous et al re the English). Ask me if I care. Ask most Americans if they greatly care. And then go home - while that option remains to you.
  132. res says:
    @matt

    The evidence points to a significant genetic component to intelligence and that average IQ varies among the different races and ethnicities.
     
    The evidence points to a significant genetic component to intelligence differences within groups. The evidence also points to large differences in average IQ between groups. These two statements don't make the hypothesis that the latter group differences are partly genetic any more likely. To see why, read this comment of mine.

    Hereditarians have been making this argument since the late 1960s. (The latest repetition of it by a well known figure that I'm aware of was Charles Murray's use of it on Sam Harris's podcast. Interestingly, none of the responses to Murray that I saw challenged him on the point where he's most obviously wrong, in my view). They should have known it was wrong by the late 1980s. Yet they keep making this argument, over and over again. It's enough to make you suspect they don't have anything else.


    Commentator res does a nice job of takin you to task:
     
    I don't really think he does. I'll admit that the more technical genetic arguments are out of my wheelhouse, but as far I can tell, the fact that SNPs that do a good job of predicting IQ in Europeans (but not necessarily in Africans) are found with a higher frequency in Europeans than they are in Africans doesn't at all make "highly unlikely... a genetic contribution of exactly 0". (See this paper).

    I'd say there's probably a lot of things that make a genetic contribution of exactly zero unlikely, for the same reason that any precise estimate is unlikely as well (It's highly unlikely that your guess of 50/50 is exactly right). It may be, for example, that Europeans are a little genetically superior to Africans when it comes to IQ. Or it may be that Europeans are a little genetically inferior to Africans when it comes to IQ.

    These two statements don’t make the hypothesis that the latter group differences are partly genetic any more likely.

    They go a little more in that direction when you add a third statement that there are substantial differences in allele frequencies (i.e. genetic composition) between populations. Including, as I pointed out, SNPs that have been detected as IQ related.

    I don’t really think he does.

    Well, at least I did enough of a good job to get you to back away from “same.” ; )

    Look, I’m aware enough to know that there is no slam dunk evidence right now that is going to convince you that the IQ difference between the races (you do agree there is a black-white phenotypic difference in the US, right?) has a significant genetic component.

    All I can say is to observe that I look forward to there being more convincing evidence (either way) available. Do you? Would you like to place a bet on what that evidence will lead us to eventually conclude?

    While we are waiting for that, perhaps you could explain how environmental effects explain ALL of this: http://www.unz.com/isteve/2008-sat-scores-by-race-by-income/

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    • Replies: @matt

    They go a little more in that direction when you add a third statement that there are substantial differences in allele frequencies (i.e. genetic composition) between populations.
     
    Maybe, but only by a little. Generations in the same ethnic group also differ in allele frequencies, including probably alleles relevant to IQ. The differences are small, and yet the phenotypic result is in the opposite of the direction predicted by theory, and by a lot. That doesn't mean theory is wrong, by the way. It just that it's no small matter to argue from the heritability of a trait in two groups, the existence of a large phenotypic difference between the groups, and the existence of differences in allelic frequencies between the groups, to the existence of a genetic difference in the trait that runs in the same direction as the phenotypic difference.

    Well, at least I did enough of a good job to get you to back away from “same.” ; )
     
    I didn't back off anything. Any charitable interpreter would have read "roughly the same" for my "same". And even if I had backed off, it wouldn't be cause of anything you said. As I have repeatedly pointed, any precise estimate in this domain is highly unlikely, but not because of something obscure about SNPs. A precise guess about the relative contribution of genes to a group difference is highly unlikely to be right for the same reason that a precise guess about the number of people in a given room is highly unlikely to be right.

    you do agree there is a black-white phenotypic difference in the US, right?
     
    What have I written that led you to believe I might not agree with this? In general, this bafflement at how I could possibly be so "smart" and "informed" and hold the positions I hold is extremely irritating, and it's one of the reasons I quietly cut off our last exchange.

    If you can figure out a way to set up a bet that will simultaneously allow us to contact each other outside of this forum, and allow me to remain semi-anonymous, including to you, let me know.

    With regard to the income data, I've already said that's one of the more compelling pieces of evidence in the hereditarian arsenal, and I've already pointed to Elsie Moore's 1986 study as (weakly) suggesting a hypothesis that should be further tested: because of cultural practices, even rich and middle class black parents don't provide their children with a very cognitively enriching environment, compared to white parents even of lower socioeconomic status.
    , @Anonymous
    Not fair! That was the old, racially discriminatory SAT test from back in 2008. It used tons of culturally biased terms like "honesty", and "bathing", and "work", and "school"!
  133. res says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    For those of us in the real world, we have to use the information that we have. We have to make decisions based on incomplete information.

    Therefore, we act on reasonable hypotheses until new information comes along. We don't have to turn them into beliefs.

    You do it every day. We all do.

    This isn't a philosophy class. It's the real world with real consequences.

    You're a smart guy who doesn't like the evidence so you're using debate skills to maneuver around it. Good luck.

    This is why I love my work. You find out very quickly who the guys are who can get the job done and who are the guys who can talk. You're the latter.

    Nice response. That “type” is tiresome. It is unfortunate that they seem more and more to be dominating our “elites.”

    Read More
  134. @matt

    The evidence points to a significant genetic component to intelligence and that average IQ varies among the different races and ethnicities.
     
    The evidence points to a significant genetic component to intelligence differences within groups. The evidence also points to large differences in average IQ between groups. These two statements don't make the hypothesis that the latter group differences are partly genetic any more likely. To see why, read this comment of mine.

    Hereditarians have been making this argument since the late 1960s. (The latest repetition of it by a well known figure that I'm aware of was Charles Murray's use of it on Sam Harris's podcast. Interestingly, none of the responses to Murray that I saw challenged him on the point where he's most obviously wrong, in my view). They should have known it was wrong by the late 1980s. Yet they keep making this argument, over and over again. It's enough to make you suspect they don't have anything else.


    Commentator res does a nice job of takin you to task:
     
    I don't really think he does. I'll admit that the more technical genetic arguments are out of my wheelhouse, but as far I can tell, the fact that SNPs that do a good job of predicting IQ in Europeans (but not necessarily in Africans) are found with a higher frequency in Europeans than they are in Africans doesn't at all make "highly unlikely... a genetic contribution of exactly 0". (See this paper).

    I'd say there's probably a lot of things that make a genetic contribution of exactly zero unlikely, for the same reason that any precise estimate is unlikely as well (It's highly unlikely that your guess of 50/50 is exactly right). It may be, for example, that Europeans are a little genetically superior to Africans when it comes to IQ. Or it may be that Europeans are a little genetically inferior to Africans when it comes to IQ.

    To see why, read this comment of mine.

    So you’re hanging your hat on the Flynn effect.

    But you’d have to have whites stop improving their IQ scores and blacks continue to do so – a lot. That seems highly unlikely.

    I’d say there’s probably a lot of things that make a genetic contribution of exactly zero unlikely, for the same reason that any precise estimate is unlikely as well (It’s highly unlikely that your guess of 50/50 is exactly right).

    You’re like the guy who says that there’s no such thing as the color yellow because there are different shades of yellow. No kidding that the 50-50 estimate is exactly right because, you know, it’s an estimate.

    The question is does the estimate work. It’s like modeling. If the model was reality, it’s be called reality. The question is does the model help us get the job done better than anything else.

    It may be, for example, that Europeans are a little genetically superior to Africans when it comes to IQ. Or it may be that Europeans are a little genetically inferior to Africans when it comes to IQ.

    Where’s the evidence for that. You demand exactness in other’s arguments but seem fine with flights of fancy in your own.

    The preponderence of evidence points to genetics being responsible for some portion – 25% to 75% – of average IQ difference among various population groups (I’m sure that you’d have an issue of I used the inexact term “race”). Is it perfect? No. Is it conclusive? No. But it’s the best working information that we have.

    You are demanding incontestable proof. In that, you are correct. We don’t have it. Fine. But in the meantime, the world demands that decisions be made. That polices are enacted. Right now, the world bases those decisions on a belief – and, yes, for them it is a belief – that there are no genetic differences among population groups.

    If there was nothing at stake, we could wait for incontestable proof, but we can’t.

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    • Replies: @res

    So you’re hanging your hat on the Flynn effect.
     
    That is perhaps the most common FUD technique used in this argument by those who actually have a clue.

    Where’s the evidence for that. You demand exactness in other’s arguments but seem fine with flights of fancy in your own.
     
    IMHO this is one of the best tells for knowing someone isn't really worth engaging with on a given topic--even if they are knowledgeable. Once you start looking for it, it is everywhere.

    But you’d have to have whites stop improving their IQ scores and blacks continue to do so – a lot. That seems highly unlikely.
     
    His Flynn Effect point actually has some merit for black Africans compared to developed world whites. Much less so for comparisons within the US. And this exact point is one of the main reasons I focus on that SAT/Income comparison I linked above.
    , @matt

    But you’d have to have whites stop improving their IQ scores and blacks continue to do so – a lot. That seems highly unlikely.
     
    That isn't the argument at all. I'm just not arguing that the Flynn Effect will cause blacks to catch up with whites. I'm arguing that the Flynn Effect shows that IQ can be highly heritable in groups (like consecutive generations of the same ethnic group), that differ by large amounts phenotypically. That undermines any inference within-group heritability to between group heritability, and it blows the specific mathematical Jensen-Herrnstein-Murray version of the argument out of the water, as Flynn pointed out all the way back in 1987.

    Look, I know you have set of stock responses to certain buzzwords that you hear. You hear "Flynn Effect", and you immediately respond: "Yeah, but how do you know whites and Asians will stand still while blacks catch up?!" I even know where you picked up this stock response, directly or indirectly: p. 308 of The Bell Curve.

    It's a good response to an argument neither Flynn nor I have have ever made. But you gotta stop using it against arguments to which it doesn't apply.

    You also just completely misunderstand my point about exact guesses. Any exact guess that narrows the genetic contribution to within one percentage point is highly unlikely. Ranges, as you point out, have a much better chance of being right. Res was saying that the assertion that exactly 0 percent of the black-white phenotypic difference is genetic in origin is made highly unlikely because of differing snp frequencies. It's highly unlikely all right, but not for that reason. It's highly unlikely for the same reason that 50/50 is highly unlikely: it's an exact guess.

    (That doesn't mean that exact guesses, whether 0-100 or 100-0 or anything in between, can't be good hypotheses to test, or reasonable bases for action.)

    I have to confess that it's tiresome to be misunderstood so frequently, through no fault of my own, as far as I can tell.

    , @anonguy
    I'd recommend you guys take a step back from your worship of IQ.

    Like any unquestioned monomania, it is a weak spot.

    Plus, it is what you accuse your enemies of doing in your hypothesized white intra-racial conflict.

    That is, the goodwhites in their whitopias revile the low IQ whites in their opiotopias in flyover countries.

    Hey, I just made up that term for dysfunctional white america, opiotopia. Doesn't quite roll off the tongue for english speakers but for a more musical/rhyming language it would be perfect.

    Anyhow, so what is the difference between the high IQ coastal elites reviling white rednecks because they think they are dumb and you guys reviling non-whites because you think they are dumb.

    I'm sorry, I'm confused.
  135. utu says:
    @Jay Fink
    What's the highest Ashkenazi % possible on 23andme? I am at 98.5%. I have seen others at this % but nothing higher.

    98.5%, Thanks. I thought maximum would be closer to 90% but it depends on how 23andme calibrates their method; what is the reference “pure blood” Ashkenazi sample they opted for?

    If you had an offspring by 0% Jewish spouse it could not be 50% Jewish, yet Ms. Wojcicki is which means her father must have some Jewish markers or 23andme engages in some shenanigans:

    if(x==Wojcicki) then y_aj≥50%

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    There is some random noise in the 23 and me results so a couple of percent one way or the other doesn't mean anything. But it would not be unusual for a non-Jewish Pole to have a few % Ashkenazi genes so if her mother was 98% Jewish and her father was 4% Jewish she could come back as 52% Jewish. I don't understand why you care. The clear implication is that Ms. W is 1/2 Jewish and 1/2 Polish - the rest is meaningless. If you are trying to harvest meaning from the last few % points of 23 and me results you are on a futile quest.
  136. res says:
    @utu
    Complaining about low SNR is the last excuse for the swine that keeps missing the pearls.

    It is not about 0.2%. It is about being close or almost 50%. There are no 100% AJs in 23andMe. More like 90% at most. So the daughter of AJ mother and non-AJ father can't be 50% AJ unless the non-AJ father contributed to the AJ part.

    When coming up with the markers and algorithm 23andMe had to compromise between two opposite demands: minimize the number of false positives and maximize detection of the self-identified AJs which in case of AJs is hard as they are ME-E hybrid and thus everybody is partly European. The issues false positives and being the "pure blood" to AJs are more important than to any other ethnic group.

    If the method pushes too hard to make the self-identified AJs 100% genetically AJ then there will be lots of Europeans who according to 23andMe will have some AJ ancestry w/o ever having J or ME ancestors.

    I wonder whether in case of AJs 23andMe uses some nonlinear decision tree algorithm? Do they ask about your ethnic identification?

    More like 90% at most.

    Comment 76 (a response to you!) gives an example of someone who was stated as 98.5%. You understand I would take you much more seriously if you were less quick to make incorrect assumptions and better about owning your errors when they are pointed out, right?

    I have heard comments that 23andMe may overstate Ashkenazi ancestry, but have never really looked into it.

    Complaining about low SNR is the last excuse for the swine that keeps missing the pearls.

    The pearls are buried in so much feces that hopefully I can be excused if I miss some. This series of comments by you is not of the pearl form AFAICT.

    P.S. There is a difference between me calling your comments feces and you implying that I am a swine. One of those is much more personal than the other.

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    • Replies: @utu
    I have heard comments that 23andMe may overstate Ashkenazi ancestry

    Potentially there might be a serious issue because of political ramifications. The biases of company founders and owners should be looked at. For instance this is from Bennett Greenspan of Family Tree DNA:

    http://www.avotaynuonline.com/2015/06/genetic-census-of-the-jewish-people/
    The urgency of our work is magnified by the fact that the legitimacy of the Jewish people and its claim to our ancestral home is currently under constant pseudo-historical attack. The media, particularly on the web, carries regular features from enemies of Israel describing theories to the effect that Ashkenazi Jews have no connection to the land of Israel and are, in fact, European and Central Asian interlopers.

    FamilyTreeDNA but my colleagues at 23andMe and Ancestry as well — we have found unmistakable evidence that Ashkenazi Jews are closely related to one another, meaning that from a genetic standpoint, all Jews are indeed part of one genetically united people with ample Middle Eastern and Mediterranean forebears.
     
    One may ask what's more important: scientific integrity or politics expediency? FamilyTreeDNA, 23andMe and Ancestry ostensively are here to make money. $99 a pop. What standards do they adhere to? Who scrutinize them?

    P.S. Forget about the swine thing. It was just a metaphor I could not resit. Not every day I can quote Jesus.
  137. dr kill says:
    @Numinous

    OT: More immigriping… From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.
    .
    .
    .
    In their own land they’d be squatting and shitting in the street.
     
    When the British first encountered India, the latter was arguably the more advanced civilization in everything except naval technology. That's why the British bothered to sail halfway around the world; to buy goods they couldn't get back home.

    And, by the way, you all (British, etc.) were shitting in pitchers by your bedsides around that time and for a while to come, so the comparison of pooping habits isn't so flattering to your lot.

    Hahaha. Is that you Indira?

    Read More
  138. Alden says:
    @Charles Pewitt
    A lot of Americans with Southern ancestry have French and German blood. The South had more of a mix of blood than New England. Some people with East Anglian ancestry in New England have a problem with too much intermarriage, just like in parts of the South. Dick Cheney had fun by saying some of the backwoods people in Appalachia were inbred. There are plenty of examples of overly inbred people in New England too.

    You might have a Southerner with a British surname who has Dutch, German, French, Swiss or other blood. Remember that the South was pioneered and settled by people from Pennsylvania, Maryland and other mid-Atlantic states, along with the coastal areas of the South.

    Some New Englanders have almost exclusively East Anglian ancestry. God bless them. I love true New Englanders.

    Germans used to be Americas largest ethnic group, a bit more than 30 percent. I don’t know if that’s still true. We know most of our family history for hundreds of years and there is not one German name, just French and English, not Scots or Irish among our ancestors.
    So that’s why French/ German was such a surprise.

    But the German Nordic admiration society of White Nationalists doesn’t want to believe that French/German DNA is the same.

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  139. res says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    To see why, read this comment of mine.
     
    So you're hanging your hat on the Flynn effect.

    But you'd have to have whites stop improving their IQ scores and blacks continue to do so - a lot. That seems highly unlikely.

    I’d say there’s probably a lot of things that make a genetic contribution of exactly zero unlikely, for the same reason that any precise estimate is unlikely as well (It’s highly unlikely that your guess of 50/50 is exactly right).
     
    You're like the guy who says that there's no such thing as the color yellow because there are different shades of yellow. No kidding that the 50-50 estimate is exactly right because, you know, it's an estimate.

    The question is does the estimate work. It's like modeling. If the model was reality, it's be called reality. The question is does the model help us get the job done better than anything else.

    It may be, for example, that Europeans are a little genetically superior to Africans when it comes to IQ. Or it may be that Europeans are a little genetically inferior to Africans when it comes to IQ.

     

    Where's the evidence for that. You demand exactness in other's arguments but seem fine with flights of fancy in your own.

    The preponderence of evidence points to genetics being responsible for some portion - 25% to 75% - of average IQ difference among various population groups (I'm sure that you'd have an issue of I used the inexact term "race"). Is it perfect? No. Is it conclusive? No. But it's the best working information that we have.

    You are demanding incontestable proof. In that, you are correct. We don't have it. Fine. But in the meantime, the world demands that decisions be made. That polices are enacted. Right now, the world bases those decisions on a belief - and, yes, for them it is a belief - that there are no genetic differences among population groups.

    If there was nothing at stake, we could wait for incontestable proof, but we can't.

    So you’re hanging your hat on the Flynn effect.

    That is perhaps the most common FUD technique used in this argument by those who actually have a clue.

    Where’s the evidence for that. You demand exactness in other’s arguments but seem fine with flights of fancy in your own.

    IMHO this is one of the best tells for knowing someone isn’t really worth engaging with on a given topic–even if they are knowledgeable. Once you start looking for it, it is everywhere.

    But you’d have to have whites stop improving their IQ scores and blacks continue to do so – a lot. That seems highly unlikely.

    His Flynn Effect point actually has some merit for black Africans compared to developed world whites. Much less so for comparisons within the US. And this exact point is one of the main reasons I focus on that SAT/Income comparison I linked above.

    Read More
    • Replies: @matt
    My "Flynn Effect point" simply isn't the one you think I'm making.
  140. AM says:
    @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    Don't much about the rest of your harangue but on one thing you are absolutely correct: The British were savages, bloodthirsty and uncouth ignorant savages...

    Don’t much about the rest of your harangue but on one thing you are absolutely correct: The British were savages, bloodthirsty and uncouth ignorant savages…

    Yeah, outlawing widow burning, insisting on bathrooms, imparting a universal language to a place without one.

    Sad. I have no idea how India coped.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    India coped plenty without the British. The language is universal in nature which benefits both sides. But as to 'SATI', it was limited to honorable women of the court... it was self-immolation, a concept not easily fathomed in an abortive culture.
  141. AM says:
    @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    New York City has no public toilets, so the growing number of homeless too don't take their poo to the loo...

    New York City has no public toilets, so the growing number of homeless too don’t take their poo to the loo…

    Life has to be difficult to navigate for you.

    Read More
  142. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Frau Katze
    A good point.

    It may be that Middle Eastern and Europeans share a lot of genes, but I would have thought there'd be something.

    It’s because 23andMe has defined Ashkenazi ancestry under the European category beforehand. If they had defined it as Middle Eastern, or as half Middle Eastern, then the results would vary accordingly.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thea
    So the categories are arbitrary?

    Seems like a useless test to me, then.
  143. Alden says:
    @fish

    15 to life…..it just be'n Dindu Graduate School!

    http://www.kansascity.com
    /news/local/crime/article170048557.html


    - Leonard Pitts
     

    Just read about that. An ugly young black thug arrested as a serial killer of older White men. He spots them walking alone, follows them and kills them. Caught by DNA, soda cups and cigarette butts left at the scene.

    I remember when liberals and democrats thought DNA evidence would prove all the black criminal’s innocent. Instead it’s convicting more and more of them. The DNA base of everyone arrested is as great as the fingerprint data base. The DNA data base proves that blacks did commit the crimes and they were not justly convicted because of bigotry and racism.

    All hail DNA!!!!!

    Read More
  144. AM says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    For those of us in the real world, we have to use the information that we have. We have to make decisions based on incomplete information.

    Therefore, we act on reasonable hypotheses until new information comes along. We don't have to turn them into beliefs.

    You do it every day. We all do.

    This isn't a philosophy class. It's the real world with real consequences.

    You're a smart guy who doesn't like the evidence so you're using debate skills to maneuver around it. Good luck.

    This is why I love my work. You find out very quickly who the guys are who can get the job done and who are the guys who can talk. You're the latter.

    This is why I love my work. You find out very quickly who the guys are who can get the job done and who are the guys who can talk. You’re the latter.

    Matt is a pretty typical modern academic type. It’s kinda why college has become a place where students more survive than improve their minds.

    Read More
  145. matt says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    To see why, read this comment of mine.
     
    So you're hanging your hat on the Flynn effect.

    But you'd have to have whites stop improving their IQ scores and blacks continue to do so - a lot. That seems highly unlikely.

    I’d say there’s probably a lot of things that make a genetic contribution of exactly zero unlikely, for the same reason that any precise estimate is unlikely as well (It’s highly unlikely that your guess of 50/50 is exactly right).
     
    You're like the guy who says that there's no such thing as the color yellow because there are different shades of yellow. No kidding that the 50-50 estimate is exactly right because, you know, it's an estimate.

    The question is does the estimate work. It's like modeling. If the model was reality, it's be called reality. The question is does the model help us get the job done better than anything else.

    It may be, for example, that Europeans are a little genetically superior to Africans when it comes to IQ. Or it may be that Europeans are a little genetically inferior to Africans when it comes to IQ.

     

    Where's the evidence for that. You demand exactness in other's arguments but seem fine with flights of fancy in your own.

    The preponderence of evidence points to genetics being responsible for some portion - 25% to 75% - of average IQ difference among various population groups (I'm sure that you'd have an issue of I used the inexact term "race"). Is it perfect? No. Is it conclusive? No. But it's the best working information that we have.

    You are demanding incontestable proof. In that, you are correct. We don't have it. Fine. But in the meantime, the world demands that decisions be made. That polices are enacted. Right now, the world bases those decisions on a belief - and, yes, for them it is a belief - that there are no genetic differences among population groups.

    If there was nothing at stake, we could wait for incontestable proof, but we can't.

    But you’d have to have whites stop improving their IQ scores and blacks continue to do so – a lot. That seems highly unlikely.

    That isn’t the argument at all. I’m just not arguing that the Flynn Effect will cause blacks to catch up with whites. I’m arguing that the Flynn Effect shows that IQ can be highly heritable in groups (like consecutive generations of the same ethnic group), that differ by large amounts phenotypically. That undermines any inference within-group heritability to between group heritability, and it blows the specific mathematical Jensen-Herrnstein-Murray version of the argument out of the water, as Flynn pointed out all the way back in 1987.

    Look, I know you have set of stock responses to certain buzzwords that you hear. You hear “Flynn Effect”, and you immediately respond: “Yeah, but how do you know whites and Asians will stand still while blacks catch up?!” I even know where you picked up this stock response, directly or indirectly: p. 308 of The Bell Curve.

    It’s a good response to an argument neither Flynn nor I have have ever made. But you gotta stop using it against arguments to which it doesn’t apply.

    You also just completely misunderstand my point about exact guesses. Any exact guess that narrows the genetic contribution to within one percentage point is highly unlikely. Ranges, as you point out, have a much better chance of being right. Res was saying that the assertion that exactly 0 percent of the black-white phenotypic difference is genetic in origin is made highly unlikely because of differing snp frequencies. It’s highly unlikely all right, but not for that reason. It’s highly unlikely for the same reason that 50/50 is highly unlikely: it’s an exact guess.

    (That doesn’t mean that exact guesses, whether 0-100 or 100-0 or anything in between, can’t be good hypotheses to test, or reasonable bases for action.)

    I have to confess that it’s tiresome to be misunderstood so frequently, through no fault of my own, as far as I can tell.

    Read More
    • Replies: @matt

    I’m arguing that the Flynn Effect shows that IQ can be highly heritable in groups (like consecutive generations of the same ethnic group), that differ by large amounts phenotypically
     
    In my considerable frustration, I forgot to add "for entirely environmental reasons."
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Look, to a degree (it's been awhile since I had to delve into this stuff), I get what you're saying about the math and Flynn effect.

    But you're still relying on the Flynn effect, in particular the Flynn effect in Holland.

    Regardless, I realize that you have this nice mathematical equation that shows that we can't assume anything about group genetic differences in IQ because of the Flynn effect. That's all well and good. Fine.

    However, there's a slight issue down here on the ground. Blacks are disaster the world around. Whites and NE Asian do extremely well the world around - outside of extreme environments. Hispanics are in the middle. You know, kind of just like IQ tests would predict.

    The burden of proof is on you to show why we shouldn't believe (sorry hypothesize) our lying eyes. How is it that various groups of whites and Asians have managed to overcome all kinds of terrible environments to excel while blacks have not?

    You have to present a counter explanation that can be acted upon. God knows that the Western world has done about everything that it can to help blacks improve; yet, as a group, they continue to lag despite massive intervention.

    Just saying, well the math based on the Flynn effect shows that you can't assume a genetic difference in average IQ between groups isn't enough because the facts on the ground are screaming that you're wrong. I mean, it's not like social scientists have never been wrong.

    So, what say you, how do we improve black environment to improve their achievement? Because if we can't, then it doesn't really matter if their failure to make it in the modern world is genetic or environmental.

    You remind of me why I started out loving my philosophy classes but came to just be annoyed by them. It helps you think up to a point but can hurt if you don't keep your mind grounded.

    Btw, the Flynn effect may not be as powerful as people believe.

    http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797615612727

    , @res

    It’s highly unlikely all right, but not for that reason. It’s highly unlikely for the same reason that 50/50 is highly unlikely: it’s an exact guess.
     
    Yup. So let's make it less exact. Divide the possibilities into the following four bins:
    0-25%, 25-50%, 50-75%, and 75-100% (where the number is the percent genetic).

    What do you think are rough probabilities of each bin corresponding to reality regarding the US black-white difference in phenotypic IQ?

    P.S. It is fun to see you arguing against your earlier 0% genetic position.
  146. matt says:
    @res

    So you’re hanging your hat on the Flynn effect.
     
    That is perhaps the most common FUD technique used in this argument by those who actually have a clue.

    Where’s the evidence for that. You demand exactness in other’s arguments but seem fine with flights of fancy in your own.
     
    IMHO this is one of the best tells for knowing someone isn't really worth engaging with on a given topic--even if they are knowledgeable. Once you start looking for it, it is everywhere.

    But you’d have to have whites stop improving their IQ scores and blacks continue to do so – a lot. That seems highly unlikely.
     
    His Flynn Effect point actually has some merit for black Africans compared to developed world whites. Much less so for comparisons within the US. And this exact point is one of the main reasons I focus on that SAT/Income comparison I linked above.

    My “Flynn Effect point” simply isn’t the one you think I’m making.

    Read More
  147. Truth says:

    “Tale of Two Brothers”

    …Unless Stevie Wonder is ghostwriting for you this week, then I guess the headline is udnerstandable.

    Read More
  148. Alden says:
    @Anon
    POC 1 - People of Color

    POC2 - Party of CEO's

    POC2 in a nutshell:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIeyAu9VoAQo5Ay.jpg

    You mean people of cr*p. What a$$holes liberals are. Colored man, woman or person is a bigoted racial slur.

    But person of color is the proper designation.

    Read More
  149. AM says:
    @gda
    "..the latter was arguably the more advanced civilization in everything except naval technology. "

    Really? Who exactly argues that? A rag tag few British mariners conquered India because they had better ships? Seems they had better weapons too, at minimum. Better planning as well. And so on.

    "That’s why the British bothered to sail halfway around the world; to buy goods they couldn’t get back home."

    And that makes the Indians more advanced exactly how again? The fact that they were able to grow spices in a place that was geographically ideal for growing spices? Or were they really after the advanced technology and knowledge of Indian civilization? From which they fashioned the Industrial Revolution.

    This truth has been hidden for years. Surely you owe us the details of how the great Indian Civilization was co-opted by a bunch of British savages.

    The fact that they were able to grow spices in a place that was geographically ideal for growing spices?

    Thank you. I had no idea how bad fake history was becoming.

    India had tea and spices and nothing more. The tea and spices were what the Brits (and the Dutch) wanted. It appears that the Brits took over India because it was well…easy and convenient. They didn’t invade the place, that’s for sure. Ouch.

    Also, I’ve confirmed this more than once: yoga are Danish gym exercises introduced to India in the late 18th century and developed extensively by Indians who noted the Brits like sports. India borrows a lot.

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  150. dr kill says:

    Envy, in my opinion, is by far the worst attribute of the human animal. I am many things, good and bad, but to wish ill on another, or to wish another’s circumstance were yours, or to wish that some one else’s possessions were yours is not in my nature. I wish the best of luck to all, even Leonard Pitts. To covet that which another person has earned fair and square is a distinctly anti-American quality. Like I tell my kids, if you don’t have enough money, get another job. No one is stopping you from working the third shift. I have been there, done that. God bless America.

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  151. jim jones says:
    @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    New York City has no public toilets, so the growing number of homeless too don't take their poo to the loo...

    The public toilets in London used to be free but now they are pay-to-go, I prefer to find a nearby pub

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    Big Apple businesses/pubs prefer paying customers only... tourists maybe, homeless no-no... hell no!
  152. AM says:
    @matt
    I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on my last two comments in the other thread. However "anomalous" the Horn of Africa may be, you still have an obligation to explain the anomaly. As I make clear in those last two comments, the fact that there is greater Eurasian admixture in the Horn doesn't appear to explain its historical performance relative to the rest of sub-Saharan Africa.

    By the way, Ge'ez script is more directly taken from South Arabia, not Egypt. Though ultimately, it does come from Egyptian hieroglyphs, just like all European alphabets ultimately do as well (through the Phoenician alphabet).

    Taylor also made blatantly wrong assertions that had nothing to do with Ethiopia, such as his remarks on Bruce Lahn's work. I also pointed this out on the other thread.

    you still have an obligation to explain the anomaly.

    Not at all. They just exist. If i describe the difference between fish and frogs and note one has gills and the other has lungs, the existence of the odd lungfish doesn’t make either category description untrue.

    Taylor also made blatantly wrong assertions that had nothing to do with Ethiopia, such as his remarks on Bruce Lahn’s work. I also pointed this out on the other thread.

    Probably not, since you called the Ethiopia stuff “wrong assertions” too. I’m not even vaguely interested in this set of weeds.

    Read More
    • Replies: @matt
    "Fish" is a paraphyletic category anyway. And the fact that something doesn't fall within a category as you've chosen to define it when it seems like it should, isn't at all analogous to a piece of evidence that seems to contradict a hypothesis. And I have no doubt that you aren't even vaguely interested in the truth.
  153. Thea says:
    @anonymous-antimarxist
    Simmons is your classic smug neocon ultra-zionist who loves America merely for what he and "his people" can exploit from it. You may think that is patriotism but I don't.

    Remember this classic clip from his "reality" cable TV show Gene Simmon's "Family Jewels"

    Gene Simmons "That Is What Gentiles Are For" - YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j72hW9RdbdI

    Very few of the hardcore Kiss fans I went to high school with back in the seventies knew that the real Gene Simmons (along with Paul Stanley?) was an anti-drug and alcohol teetotaler who thought drugs and alcohol were for the weak. What they did hear from Simmons was his boasting about having had sex with thousands of teen groupies most of whom were probably high at the time.

    Likewise lots of goyim Kiss fans have tattoos of the band, especially of Simmons

    But does Gene Simmons have any tattoos???
    https://www.quora.com/What-tattoos-does-Gene-Simmons-have


    Gene Simmons has no tattoos. I believe tattoos are taboo in Judaism.
    But most importantly, since his Mother [whom he adores] survived the Holocaust, getting a tattoo would be in extremely bad taste, nevermind how disrespectful.
    He surely never even CONSIDERED getting a tattoo.
     

    I dunno, just saying something nice about us in public is refreshing. He seems to like his Gentile kids. He is an arrogant ass but eh, he was a rock star.

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  154. Thea says:
    @Anonymous
    It's because 23andMe has defined Ashkenazi ancestry under the European category beforehand. If they had defined it as Middle Eastern, or as half Middle Eastern, then the results would vary accordingly.

    So the categories are arbitrary?

    Seems like a useless test to me, then.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The test isn't useless, since it can identify Ashkenazi ancestry (and other ancestries). Whether or not you think the categories are arbitrary depends on how you feel about categorizing particular ancestries.
  155. @BenKenobi
    Yeah but the whole anti-drug/alcohol stance is completely discredited by the rampant sexcapades with young groupies (I wonder how much they were abstaining btw).

    At least in my opinion. If you're gonna be whoring around, don't do things by half-measures.

    I argue the difference is of type, not mere degree; sex, unlike drugs, is not inherently deteimebtsl to health (they swear they always wore raincoats, and, being smart guys, I cannot imagine they would not given the exposure to pathogens and paternity-suits else…).

    Here they are discussing the topic with Dr. Joyce Brothers, of all people.

    It’s bizarre I find myself referring to Kiss every ten posts or so; I swear they don’t pay me. I just admire them as great examples of people who succeeded by busting their asses, believing in themselves, and never giving up – all without terribly freakish inborn talents (indeed with many obstacles: how many people born deaf in one ear become professional musicians with pipes like Paul Stanley’s?)

    Their music is about sex, good times, love, and positivity: believing in yourself, persevering, supporting friends and family, etc. (“Stand,” “Hard Times,” “Crazy Nights,” “Reason To Live,” “Rise To It”…). It’s very refreshing in an age where rock has increasingly become about posturing and bitching about the Injustice of the Month.

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  156. matt says:
    @matt

    But you’d have to have whites stop improving their IQ scores and blacks continue to do so – a lot. That seems highly unlikely.
     
    That isn't the argument at all. I'm just not arguing that the Flynn Effect will cause blacks to catch up with whites. I'm arguing that the Flynn Effect shows that IQ can be highly heritable in groups (like consecutive generations of the same ethnic group), that differ by large amounts phenotypically. That undermines any inference within-group heritability to between group heritability, and it blows the specific mathematical Jensen-Herrnstein-Murray version of the argument out of the water, as Flynn pointed out all the way back in 1987.

    Look, I know you have set of stock responses to certain buzzwords that you hear. You hear "Flynn Effect", and you immediately respond: "Yeah, but how do you know whites and Asians will stand still while blacks catch up?!" I even know where you picked up this stock response, directly or indirectly: p. 308 of The Bell Curve.

    It's a good response to an argument neither Flynn nor I have have ever made. But you gotta stop using it against arguments to which it doesn't apply.

    You also just completely misunderstand my point about exact guesses. Any exact guess that narrows the genetic contribution to within one percentage point is highly unlikely. Ranges, as you point out, have a much better chance of being right. Res was saying that the assertion that exactly 0 percent of the black-white phenotypic difference is genetic in origin is made highly unlikely because of differing snp frequencies. It's highly unlikely all right, but not for that reason. It's highly unlikely for the same reason that 50/50 is highly unlikely: it's an exact guess.

    (That doesn't mean that exact guesses, whether 0-100 or 100-0 or anything in between, can't be good hypotheses to test, or reasonable bases for action.)

    I have to confess that it's tiresome to be misunderstood so frequently, through no fault of my own, as far as I can tell.

    I’m arguing that the Flynn Effect shows that IQ can be highly heritable in groups (like consecutive generations of the same ethnic group), that differ by large amounts phenotypically

    In my considerable frustration, I forgot to add “for entirely environmental reasons.”

    Read More
  157. Anon 2 says:

    It’s interesting that Susan Wojcicki , in addition to her
    American citizenship, is also a Polish citizen. She probably speaks
    Polish as well. All three daughters seem very close to their
    Polish father Stanley Wojcicki (born Stanisław) who was born
    in Poland, as a Catholic was educated at a boarding school
    run by Franciscan monks in the U.S., and rose to chairmanship
    in the Physics Dept. at Stanford. So Susan and her sisters are
    half-Polish half-Jewish, which is not as uncommon as people
    think. For example, Radek Sikorski, Poland’s former Foreign
    Minister (currently at Harvard), is married to Anne Applebaum,
    author and columnist, and together they have two sons.

    America’s first Nobel Prize winner in Physics, Albert Michelson,
    famous for the Michelson-Morley experiment that disproved the
    existence of the ether, was born in Poland, and his mother was
    Catholic and father Jewish. One could mention many such couples.
    After the Jews were expelled from Western Europe and banned from
    Russia, they ended up in Poland which by 1550 already hosted 80%
    of the world’s Jews (i.e., probably close to 90% Ashkenazis) and was
    known in Europe as the country of dissidents and heretics, land
    of religious liberty and peace. So for almost 400 years (till 1939) Poland,
    i.e., Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (which included much of today’s
    Lithuania, Belarus, and western Ukraine) was the world center of Jewish
    life. Even Netanyahu’s real name is Polish.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Gore Verbinski, the movie director of "Pirates of the Caribbean," is the son of a Polish Catholic (?) anti-Communist physicist who got a job at Oak Ridge bomb labs in Tennessee and married a Scots-Irish girl.

    My son lost a high school video competition to Verbinski's son once. I was sitting in the audience thinking my son's video had a good chance to win the prize, but then they start the credits for the last one, by a group of freshmen. "Verbinski, where have I heard the name Verbinski before? ... Uh-oh ..."

    Verbinski's son's video was a savage satire on Soviet communism.

  158. matt says:
    @AM

    you still have an obligation to explain the anomaly.
     
    Not at all. They just exist. If i describe the difference between fish and frogs and note one has gills and the other has lungs, the existence of the odd lungfish doesn't make either category description untrue.

    Taylor also made blatantly wrong assertions that had nothing to do with Ethiopia, such as his remarks on Bruce Lahn’s work. I also pointed this out on the other thread.
     
    Probably not, since you called the Ethiopia stuff "wrong assertions" too. I'm not even vaguely interested in this set of weeds.

    “Fish” is a paraphyletic category anyway. And the fact that something doesn’t fall within a category as you’ve chosen to define it when it seems like it should, isn’t at all analogous to a piece of evidence that seems to contradict a hypothesis. And I have no doubt that you aren’t even vaguely interested in the truth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    OK, is Matt just trolling us? If so, well done!
    , @AM

    And I have no doubt that you aren’t even vaguely interested in the truth.
     
    I'm very interested in the truth, which is why talking with someone who clearly would have difficulty getting their car's oil changed at a Jiffy Lube is so wholly unappealing. If you ever learn more than minor details, a few rhetorical tricks and an urge to "win" every conservation, then it might be hold some interest again.
  159. @Anon 2
    It's interesting that Susan Wojcicki , in addition to her
    American citizenship, is also a Polish citizen. She probably speaks
    Polish as well. All three daughters seem very close to their
    Polish father Stanley Wojcicki (born Stanisław) who was born
    in Poland, as a Catholic was educated at a boarding school
    run by Franciscan monks in the U.S., and rose to chairmanship
    in the Physics Dept. at Stanford. So Susan and her sisters are
    half-Polish half-Jewish, which is not as uncommon as people
    think. For example, Radek Sikorski, Poland's former Foreign
    Minister (currently at Harvard), is married to Anne Applebaum,
    author and columnist, and together they have two sons.

    America's first Nobel Prize winner in Physics, Albert Michelson,
    famous for the Michelson-Morley experiment that disproved the
    existence of the ether, was born in Poland, and his mother was
    Catholic and father Jewish. One could mention many such couples.
    After the Jews were expelled from Western Europe and banned from
    Russia, they ended up in Poland which by 1550 already hosted 80%
    of the world's Jews (i.e., probably close to 90% Ashkenazis) and was
    known in Europe as the country of dissidents and heretics, land
    of religious liberty and peace. So for almost 400 years (till 1939) Poland,
    i.e., Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (which included much of today's
    Lithuania, Belarus, and western Ukraine) was the world center of Jewish
    life. Even Netanyahu's real name is Polish.

    Gore Verbinski, the movie director of “Pirates of the Caribbean,” is the son of a Polish Catholic (?) anti-Communist physicist who got a job at Oak Ridge bomb labs in Tennessee and married a Scots-Irish girl.

    My son lost a high school video competition to Verbinski’s son once. I was sitting in the audience thinking my son’s video had a good chance to win the prize, but then they start the credits for the last one, by a group of freshmen. “Verbinski, where have I heard the name Verbinski before? … Uh-oh …”

    Verbinski’s son’s video was a savage satire on Soviet communism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon 2
    I still remember Gore Verbinski's Budweiser Frogs
    commercial which he did before all the Pirates of the
    Caribbean movies. Devilishly funny!
  160. @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    New York City has no public toilets, so the growing number of homeless too don't take their poo to the loo...

    I believe there’s a term for your problem in making a proper comparison here- orders of magnitude.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    Really, Jacob? The richest country in the world and that in its leading metropolis... You are right, it's a question of scale!
  161. @Anonymous
    OT: More immigriping... From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.

    http://littleindia.com/m-night-shyamalan-kal-penn-indian-origin-celebrities-slammed-trump/

    From M Night Shyamalan to Kal Penn, Indian-origin Stars Against Trump
    With Padma Lakshmi criticising Trump once again, here is a look at other Indian American celebrities who have condemned POTUS.

    ...Indian American model-turned-author Padma Lakshmi recently slammed US President Donald Trump, saying he is a “menace to society”. She was speaking at the 8th Mountain Echoes Literary Festival in Thimphu, Bhutan. This is not the first time the author has lashed out against the US president.

    Last year, during the run-up to the elections, the Variety magazine quoted her as saying: “Even if he wasn’t the racist buffoon that he is making himself out to be, I probably wouldn’t vote for him. But as an immigrant, I obviously don’t see his worldview as mine.”

    She added: “We are a country of immigrants, so to say you should put a wall up or limit certain ethnicities is sort of antithetical to what this country is about. He himself is an immigrant of immigrant descent. Unless you are from the Cherokee nation, your ancestors are immigrants so you may be an umpteenth generation immigrant but there you are, squatting on someone else’s land.”...
     

    In their own land they'd be squatting and shitting in the street.

    OT: More immigriping… From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.

    Agree on the immigriping. (And Indians are among the worst. Though I know a few Indian Americans who are proud Trump voters.)

    Your statement is clearly not correct. India is the 3rd great civilization, after the West and China. In accomplishment distinctly behind those bookends of Eurasia. But it left the Mesolithic maybe 8000 years ago. It’s distinctly a real civilization, not sub-Saharan Africa or anything like it.

    In terms of the pooping on the streets problem … pooping in the fields is the natural practice for peasants and what they’ve done everywhere for a very long time. Replaced by the outhouse or chamber pot. Europe prior to the modern era industrial era was pretty hideous in the towns with people dumping their waste in the streets. India’s continuing inability–or lack of desire–to prioritize and tackle its basic infrastructure needs in terms of roads, water, sewers, schools now 40+ years after becoming a nuclear weapons state is indeed embarrassing. (Would embarrass me if I was an Indian.)

    I think it says something both about Indians willingness to accept mediocrity and about the priorities you get in a caste stratified “multicultural” society as opposed to a “one people” nation. Of course as we “celebrate diversity” and import it from every benighted corner of the globe we are becoming both more stratified and mediocre ourselves. Our future may well look a lot more like India’s–extreme income inequality, sprawling slumy areas, mediocre public services and infrastructure for the masses–if we don’t rise up and stop it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thea
    Gratitude in general is an underrated characteristic. But if our guests showed a bit we might feel a tad more welcoming in return.
    , @Anonymous
    Given that roughly half of all Indians (625M) poop and pee wherever, we would do humanity a favor if we refused to let them run off to live with us.

    Until India potty-trains at least 99% of their people none of them get to move West.

    NB: they have to stop doing this stuff, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TiRdBL3obE. Dipping babies in cow sh!t does not "bring luck".
    , @AM

    India’s continuing inability–or lack of desire–to prioritize and tackle its basic infrastructure needs in terms of roads, water, sewers, schools now 40+ years after becoming a nuclear weapons state is indeed embarrassing. (Would embarrass me if I was an Indian.)
     
    This sentiment unfortunately undervalues what Western Civilization brings to the West and it's mindset.

    India's culture is rather fatalist as whole, which comes from it's Hinduism. Christianity offers a strange bit of hope about the fate and dignity every individual, which makes pooping in the street quite embarrassing to anyone saturated in that mindset. In the Hindu what you see now is what you see forever. Why shouldn't they poop in the streets? It's the way it's always been and always will be.

    Our future may well look a lot more like India’s–extreme income inequality, sprawling slumy areas, mediocre public services and infrastructure for the masses–if we don’t rise up and stop it.
     
    There's no "rising up and stopping" what's coming. The parallels with the end of Rome are almost impossible to ignore. We've lost our virtue, next comes an economic crash, and then we're all dealing with the barbarians at our door. There's still much to be done as individuals and I'm hopeful the worst might be blunted. But I don't see a rise up in so much as I see small groups trying to band together.
    , @benjaminl
    The Open Borders Blog just posted a pretty interesting book review about the public pooping.

    http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2017/08/where-india-goes.html
  162. Anon 2 says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Gore Verbinski, the movie director of "Pirates of the Caribbean," is the son of a Polish Catholic (?) anti-Communist physicist who got a job at Oak Ridge bomb labs in Tennessee and married a Scots-Irish girl.

    My son lost a high school video competition to Verbinski's son once. I was sitting in the audience thinking my son's video had a good chance to win the prize, but then they start the credits for the last one, by a group of freshmen. "Verbinski, where have I heard the name Verbinski before? ... Uh-oh ..."

    Verbinski's son's video was a savage satire on Soviet communism.

    I still remember Gore Verbinski’s Budweiser Frogs
    commercial which he did before all the Pirates of the
    Caribbean movies. Devilishly funny!

    Read More
  163. matt says:
    @res

    These two statements don’t make the hypothesis that the latter group differences are partly genetic any more likely.
     
    They go a little more in that direction when you add a third statement that there are substantial differences in allele frequencies (i.e. genetic composition) between populations. Including, as I pointed out, SNPs that have been detected as IQ related.

    I don’t really think he does.
     
    Well, at least I did enough of a good job to get you to back away from "same." ; )

    Look, I'm aware enough to know that there is no slam dunk evidence right now that is going to convince you that the IQ difference between the races (you do agree there is a black-white phenotypic difference in the US, right?) has a significant genetic component.

    All I can say is to observe that I look forward to there being more convincing evidence (either way) available. Do you? Would you like to place a bet on what that evidence will lead us to eventually conclude?

    While we are waiting for that, perhaps you could explain how environmental effects explain ALL of this: http://www.unz.com/isteve/2008-sat-scores-by-race-by-income/

    http://www.jbhe.com/latest/news/1-22-09/satracialgapfigure.gif

    They go a little more in that direction when you add a third statement that there are substantial differences in allele frequencies (i.e. genetic composition) between populations.

    Maybe, but only by a little. Generations in the same ethnic group also differ in allele frequencies, including probably alleles relevant to IQ. The differences are small, and yet the phenotypic result is in the opposite of the direction predicted by theory, and by a lot. That doesn’t mean theory is wrong, by the way. It just that it’s no small matter to argue from the heritability of a trait in two groups, the existence of a large phenotypic difference between the groups, and the existence of differences in allelic frequencies between the groups, to the existence of a genetic difference in the trait that runs in the same direction as the phenotypic difference.

    Well, at least I did enough of a good job to get you to back away from “same.” ; )

    I didn’t back off anything. Any charitable interpreter would have read “roughly the same” for my “same”. And even if I had backed off, it wouldn’t be cause of anything you said. As I have repeatedly pointed, any precise estimate in this domain is highly unlikely, but not because of something obscure about SNPs. A precise guess about the relative contribution of genes to a group difference is highly unlikely to be right for the same reason that a precise guess about the number of people in a given room is highly unlikely to be right.

    you do agree there is a black-white phenotypic difference in the US, right?

    What have I written that led you to believe I might not agree with this? In general, this bafflement at how I could possibly be so “smart” and “informed” and hold the positions I hold is extremely irritating, and it’s one of the reasons I quietly cut off our last exchange.

    If you can figure out a way to set up a bet that will simultaneously allow us to contact each other outside of this forum, and allow me to remain semi-anonymous, including to you, let me know.

    With regard to the income data, I’ve already said that’s one of the more compelling pieces of evidence in the hereditarian arsenal, and I’ve already pointed to Elsie Moore’s 1986 study as (weakly) suggesting a hypothesis that should be further tested: because of cultural practices, even rich and middle class black parents don’t provide their children with a very cognitively enriching environment, compared to white parents even of lower socioeconomic status.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

    With regard to the income data, I’ve already said that’s one of the more compelling pieces of evidence in the hereditarian arsenal, and I’ve already pointed to Elsie Moore’s 1986 study as (weakly) suggesting a hypothesis that should be further tested: because of cultural practices, even rich and middle class black parents don’t provide their children with a very cognitively enriching environment, compared to white parents even of lower socioeconomic status.
     
    So the environment of wealthy blacks is worse than the environment of poor whites?

    I've seen how upper middle class blacks live. It ain't deep West Virginia.

    Again, you make great arguments - until we leave the doors of the debate club, then they seem a tad shaky.

    Occam's Razor is on our side. You need to show us why we're wrong - and, yes, we could be.

    The United States have poured trillions of dollars in helping blacks. We have affirmative action. We have artificially pushing millions of blacks into higher income brackets. (Yes, I realize that this might back up you idea that they haven't changed their underlying culture.) Etc. Etc.

    As I mentioned in another comment, let's assume that you're right: It's the environment. Well, if neither whites nor blacks can change this environment that's causing such poor black academic performance relative to whites and NE Asians, we're still back where we'd be if the cause was genetic.

    Either the difference is caused by genetics, in which case we need to change our policies or the differences are caused by an incurable black culture, in which case we need to change our policies.

    Whites in the U.S. have been trying for 60 years to change black culture and outside of a slight bump in the beginning, it has failed. Failed. So unless you have some new plan that you're keeping to yourself for some cruel reason, it's time call it quits.
  164. Thea says:
    @AnotherDad

    OT: More immigriping… From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.
     
    Agree on the immigriping. (And Indians are among the worst. Though I know a few Indian Americans who are proud Trump voters.)

    Your statement is clearly not correct. India is the 3rd great civilization, after the West and China. In accomplishment distinctly behind those bookends of Eurasia. But it left the Mesolithic maybe 8000 years ago. It's distinctly a real civilization, not sub-Saharan Africa or anything like it.

    In terms of the pooping on the streets problem ... pooping in the fields is the natural practice for peasants and what they've done everywhere for a very long time. Replaced by the outhouse or chamber pot. Europe prior to the modern era industrial era was pretty hideous in the towns with people dumping their waste in the streets. India's continuing inability--or lack of desire--to prioritize and tackle its basic infrastructure needs in terms of roads, water, sewers, schools now 40+ years after becoming a nuclear weapons state is indeed embarrassing. (Would embarrass me if I was an Indian.)

    I think it says something both about Indians willingness to accept mediocrity and about the priorities you get in a caste stratified "multicultural" society as opposed to a "one people" nation. Of course as we "celebrate diversity" and import it from every benighted corner of the globe we are becoming both more stratified and mediocre ourselves. Our future may well look a lot more like India's--extreme income inequality, sprawling slumy areas, mediocre public services and infrastructure for the masses--if we don't rise up and stop it.

    Gratitude in general is an underrated characteristic. But if our guests showed a bit we might feel a tad more welcoming in return.

    Read More
  165. Anon 2 says:

    The variation in precision at 23andMe is astonishing.
    For example, the Scandinavian group comprises only
    20 million people whereas East European about 280 million
    (Russia, Poland, Ukraine, etc plus Hungary). I have no
    interest in using their services. More and more companies
    like Google, Facebook, and 23 and Me, are acquiring a very
    bad image as basically data collection or surveillance companies.
    In other words, they are glorified spies, collecting
    information they can use against us

    Read More
  166. @matt

    But you’d have to have whites stop improving their IQ scores and blacks continue to do so – a lot. That seems highly unlikely.
     
    That isn't the argument at all. I'm just not arguing that the Flynn Effect will cause blacks to catch up with whites. I'm arguing that the Flynn Effect shows that IQ can be highly heritable in groups (like consecutive generations of the same ethnic group), that differ by large amounts phenotypically. That undermines any inference within-group heritability to between group heritability, and it blows the specific mathematical Jensen-Herrnstein-Murray version of the argument out of the water, as Flynn pointed out all the way back in 1987.

    Look, I know you have set of stock responses to certain buzzwords that you hear. You hear "Flynn Effect", and you immediately respond: "Yeah, but how do you know whites and Asians will stand still while blacks catch up?!" I even know where you picked up this stock response, directly or indirectly: p. 308 of The Bell Curve.

    It's a good response to an argument neither Flynn nor I have have ever made. But you gotta stop using it against arguments to which it doesn't apply.

    You also just completely misunderstand my point about exact guesses. Any exact guess that narrows the genetic contribution to within one percentage point is highly unlikely. Ranges, as you point out, have a much better chance of being right. Res was saying that the assertion that exactly 0 percent of the black-white phenotypic difference is genetic in origin is made highly unlikely because of differing snp frequencies. It's highly unlikely all right, but not for that reason. It's highly unlikely for the same reason that 50/50 is highly unlikely: it's an exact guess.

    (That doesn't mean that exact guesses, whether 0-100 or 100-0 or anything in between, can't be good hypotheses to test, or reasonable bases for action.)

    I have to confess that it's tiresome to be misunderstood so frequently, through no fault of my own, as far as I can tell.

    Look, to a degree (it’s been awhile since I had to delve into this stuff), I get what you’re saying about the math and Flynn effect.

    But you’re still relying on the Flynn effect, in particular the Flynn effect in Holland.

    Regardless, I realize that you have this nice mathematical equation that shows that we can’t assume anything about group genetic differences in IQ because of the Flynn effect. That’s all well and good. Fine.

    However, there’s a slight issue down here on the ground. Blacks are disaster the world around. Whites and NE Asian do extremely well the world around – outside of extreme environments. Hispanics are in the middle. You know, kind of just like IQ tests would predict.

    The burden of proof is on you to show why we shouldn’t believe (sorry hypothesize) our lying eyes. How is it that various groups of whites and Asians have managed to overcome all kinds of terrible environments to excel while blacks have not?

    You have to present a counter explanation that can be acted upon. God knows that the Western world has done about everything that it can to help blacks improve; yet, as a group, they continue to lag despite massive intervention.

    Just saying, well the math based on the Flynn effect shows that you can’t assume a genetic difference in average IQ between groups isn’t enough because the facts on the ground are screaming that you’re wrong. I mean, it’s not like social scientists have never been wrong.

    So, what say you, how do we improve black environment to improve their achievement? Because if we can’t, then it doesn’t really matter if their failure to make it in the modern world is genetic or environmental.

    You remind of me why I started out loving my philosophy classes but came to just be annoyed by them. It helps you think up to a point but can hurt if you don’t keep your mind grounded.

    Btw, the Flynn effect may not be as powerful as people believe.

    http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797615612727

    Read More
  167. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @res

    These two statements don’t make the hypothesis that the latter group differences are partly genetic any more likely.
     
    They go a little more in that direction when you add a third statement that there are substantial differences in allele frequencies (i.e. genetic composition) between populations. Including, as I pointed out, SNPs that have been detected as IQ related.

    I don’t really think he does.
     
    Well, at least I did enough of a good job to get you to back away from "same." ; )

    Look, I'm aware enough to know that there is no slam dunk evidence right now that is going to convince you that the IQ difference between the races (you do agree there is a black-white phenotypic difference in the US, right?) has a significant genetic component.

    All I can say is to observe that I look forward to there being more convincing evidence (either way) available. Do you? Would you like to place a bet on what that evidence will lead us to eventually conclude?

    While we are waiting for that, perhaps you could explain how environmental effects explain ALL of this: http://www.unz.com/isteve/2008-sat-scores-by-race-by-income/

    http://www.jbhe.com/latest/news/1-22-09/satracialgapfigure.gif

    Not fair! That was the old, racially discriminatory SAT test from back in 2008. It used tons of culturally biased terms like “honesty”, and “bathing”, and “work”, and “school”!

    Read More
  168. res says:
    @matt

    But you’d have to have whites stop improving their IQ scores and blacks continue to do so – a lot. That seems highly unlikely.
     
    That isn't the argument at all. I'm just not arguing that the Flynn Effect will cause blacks to catch up with whites. I'm arguing that the Flynn Effect shows that IQ can be highly heritable in groups (like consecutive generations of the same ethnic group), that differ by large amounts phenotypically. That undermines any inference within-group heritability to between group heritability, and it blows the specific mathematical Jensen-Herrnstein-Murray version of the argument out of the water, as Flynn pointed out all the way back in 1987.

    Look, I know you have set of stock responses to certain buzzwords that you hear. You hear "Flynn Effect", and you immediately respond: "Yeah, but how do you know whites and Asians will stand still while blacks catch up?!" I even know where you picked up this stock response, directly or indirectly: p. 308 of The Bell Curve.

    It's a good response to an argument neither Flynn nor I have have ever made. But you gotta stop using it against arguments to which it doesn't apply.

    You also just completely misunderstand my point about exact guesses. Any exact guess that narrows the genetic contribution to within one percentage point is highly unlikely. Ranges, as you point out, have a much better chance of being right. Res was saying that the assertion that exactly 0 percent of the black-white phenotypic difference is genetic in origin is made highly unlikely because of differing snp frequencies. It's highly unlikely all right, but not for that reason. It's highly unlikely for the same reason that 50/50 is highly unlikely: it's an exact guess.

    (That doesn't mean that exact guesses, whether 0-100 or 100-0 or anything in between, can't be good hypotheses to test, or reasonable bases for action.)

    I have to confess that it's tiresome to be misunderstood so frequently, through no fault of my own, as far as I can tell.

    It’s highly unlikely all right, but not for that reason. It’s highly unlikely for the same reason that 50/50 is highly unlikely: it’s an exact guess.

    Yup. So let’s make it less exact. Divide the possibilities into the following four bins:
    0-25%, 25-50%, 50-75%, and 75-100% (where the number is the percent genetic).

    What do you think are rough probabilities of each bin corresponding to reality regarding the US black-white difference in phenotypic IQ?

    P.S. It is fun to see you arguing against your earlier 0% genetic position.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    P.S. It is fun to see you arguing against your earlier 0% genetic position.
     
    It is fun in the right mood. Predictable, but fun. ;)
    , @res
    It is instructive to note which comments get no response. Matt complains about exact guesses being problematic so I propose a way around that issue. And get silence in response. I guess the exactness wasn't really the problem.

    Regarding this quote from matt's comment 155:

    it’s one of the reasons I quietly cut off our last exchange.
     
    Can anyone help me understand how that differs from running away with tail between legs because he has no effective response? I would really like to know. I suppose the lack of effective response is a good clue.
  169. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @AnotherDad

    OT: More immigriping… From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.
     
    Agree on the immigriping. (And Indians are among the worst. Though I know a few Indian Americans who are proud Trump voters.)

    Your statement is clearly not correct. India is the 3rd great civilization, after the West and China. In accomplishment distinctly behind those bookends of Eurasia. But it left the Mesolithic maybe 8000 years ago. It's distinctly a real civilization, not sub-Saharan Africa or anything like it.

    In terms of the pooping on the streets problem ... pooping in the fields is the natural practice for peasants and what they've done everywhere for a very long time. Replaced by the outhouse or chamber pot. Europe prior to the modern era industrial era was pretty hideous in the towns with people dumping their waste in the streets. India's continuing inability--or lack of desire--to prioritize and tackle its basic infrastructure needs in terms of roads, water, sewers, schools now 40+ years after becoming a nuclear weapons state is indeed embarrassing. (Would embarrass me if I was an Indian.)

    I think it says something both about Indians willingness to accept mediocrity and about the priorities you get in a caste stratified "multicultural" society as opposed to a "one people" nation. Of course as we "celebrate diversity" and import it from every benighted corner of the globe we are becoming both more stratified and mediocre ourselves. Our future may well look a lot more like India's--extreme income inequality, sprawling slumy areas, mediocre public services and infrastructure for the masses--if we don't rise up and stop it.

    Given that roughly half of all Indians (625M) poop and pee wherever, we would do humanity a favor if we refused to let them run off to live with us.

    Until India potty-trains at least 99% of their people none of them get to move West.

    NB: they have to stop doing this stuff, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TiRdBL3obE. Dipping babies in cow sh!t does not “bring luck”.

    Read More
  170. @AndrewR
    I suppose reasonable doubt could be raised about this, but to me it seems very clear that Sue Wojcicki was personally offended to a great extent by the memo.

    You mean she took it personally? These days it’s considered sexist to point that out.

    Read More
  171. @matt

    They go a little more in that direction when you add a third statement that there are substantial differences in allele frequencies (i.e. genetic composition) between populations.
     
    Maybe, but only by a little. Generations in the same ethnic group also differ in allele frequencies, including probably alleles relevant to IQ. The differences are small, and yet the phenotypic result is in the opposite of the direction predicted by theory, and by a lot. That doesn't mean theory is wrong, by the way. It just that it's no small matter to argue from the heritability of a trait in two groups, the existence of a large phenotypic difference between the groups, and the existence of differences in allelic frequencies between the groups, to the existence of a genetic difference in the trait that runs in the same direction as the phenotypic difference.

    Well, at least I did enough of a good job to get you to back away from “same.” ; )
     
    I didn't back off anything. Any charitable interpreter would have read "roughly the same" for my "same". And even if I had backed off, it wouldn't be cause of anything you said. As I have repeatedly pointed, any precise estimate in this domain is highly unlikely, but not because of something obscure about SNPs. A precise guess about the relative contribution of genes to a group difference is highly unlikely to be right for the same reason that a precise guess about the number of people in a given room is highly unlikely to be right.

    you do agree there is a black-white phenotypic difference in the US, right?
     
    What have I written that led you to believe I might not agree with this? In general, this bafflement at how I could possibly be so "smart" and "informed" and hold the positions I hold is extremely irritating, and it's one of the reasons I quietly cut off our last exchange.

    If you can figure out a way to set up a bet that will simultaneously allow us to contact each other outside of this forum, and allow me to remain semi-anonymous, including to you, let me know.

    With regard to the income data, I've already said that's one of the more compelling pieces of evidence in the hereditarian arsenal, and I've already pointed to Elsie Moore's 1986 study as (weakly) suggesting a hypothesis that should be further tested: because of cultural practices, even rich and middle class black parents don't provide their children with a very cognitively enriching environment, compared to white parents even of lower socioeconomic status.

    With regard to the income data, I’ve already said that’s one of the more compelling pieces of evidence in the hereditarian arsenal, and I’ve already pointed to Elsie Moore’s 1986 study as (weakly) suggesting a hypothesis that should be further tested: because of cultural practices, even rich and middle class black parents don’t provide their children with a very cognitively enriching environment, compared to white parents even of lower socioeconomic status.

    So the environment of wealthy blacks is worse than the environment of poor whites?

    I’ve seen how upper middle class blacks live. It ain’t deep West Virginia.

    Again, you make great arguments – until we leave the doors of the debate club, then they seem a tad shaky.

    Occam’s Razor is on our side. You need to show us why we’re wrong – and, yes, we could be.

    The United States have poured trillions of dollars in helping blacks. We have affirmative action. We have artificially pushing millions of blacks into higher income brackets. (Yes, I realize that this might back up you idea that they haven’t changed their underlying culture.) Etc. Etc.

    As I mentioned in another comment, let’s assume that you’re right: It’s the environment. Well, if neither whites nor blacks can change this environment that’s causing such poor black academic performance relative to whites and NE Asians, we’re still back where we’d be if the cause was genetic.

    Either the difference is caused by genetics, in which case we need to change our policies or the differences are caused by an incurable black culture, in which case we need to change our policies.

    Whites in the U.S. have been trying for 60 years to change black culture and outside of a slight bump in the beginning, it has failed. Failed. So unless you have some new plan that you’re keeping to yourself for some cruel reason, it’s time call it quits.

    Read More
    • Replies: @3g4me
    @162 Citizen of a Silly Country contra matt: "You need to show us why we’re wrong – and, yes, we could be."

    And somehow you're both ignoring those already extant "studies" which pretty conclusively demonstrate that, enriched cultural environment notwithstanding, inherited genetic predispositions will out. For only one such example, consider ye hoary olde Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study.
  172. res says:
    @matt
    "Fish" is a paraphyletic category anyway. And the fact that something doesn't fall within a category as you've chosen to define it when it seems like it should, isn't at all analogous to a piece of evidence that seems to contradict a hypothesis. And I have no doubt that you aren't even vaguely interested in the truth.

    OK, is Matt just trolling us? If so, well done!

    Read More
  173. Dube says:
    @markflag
    Actually her name is mispronounced Wo-jit-skee, a mispronunciation that exhibits a typical White American Female disregard for proper Polish pronunciation. Cultural misappropriation anyone? But perhaps she is genetically unable to make required sounds.

    “Wojcicki” would be pronounced Voy-CHITS-kee.

    Read More
  174. @bb753
    What about all the groupies he supposedly got intimate with? Maybe he was just not into the "drugs" part of "Sex and Drugs an Rock'n'Roll?

    https://youtu.be/erGNSQMJ79Q

    Like I said, Gene Simmons obviously avoided drugs and alcohol because he felt that he had no desire to weaken his own mind and self-control. But having lots and lots of sex with teen groupies who were high and therefore impaired in judgment is not a problem.

    Ever notice that the Golden Rule is pretty much a goy thing???

    Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    To be a teen or tween groupie you need to have an impaired judgment, sober or not.
  175. AM says:
    @matt
    "Fish" is a paraphyletic category anyway. And the fact that something doesn't fall within a category as you've chosen to define it when it seems like it should, isn't at all analogous to a piece of evidence that seems to contradict a hypothesis. And I have no doubt that you aren't even vaguely interested in the truth.

    And I have no doubt that you aren’t even vaguely interested in the truth.

    I’m very interested in the truth, which is why talking with someone who clearly would have difficulty getting their car’s oil changed at a Jiffy Lube is so wholly unappealing. If you ever learn more than minor details, a few rhetorical tricks and an urge to “win” every conservation, then it might be hold some interest again.

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  176. AM says:
    @res

    It’s highly unlikely all right, but not for that reason. It’s highly unlikely for the same reason that 50/50 is highly unlikely: it’s an exact guess.
     
    Yup. So let's make it less exact. Divide the possibilities into the following four bins:
    0-25%, 25-50%, 50-75%, and 75-100% (where the number is the percent genetic).

    What do you think are rough probabilities of each bin corresponding to reality regarding the US black-white difference in phenotypic IQ?

    P.S. It is fun to see you arguing against your earlier 0% genetic position.

    P.S. It is fun to see you arguing against your earlier 0% genetic position.

    It is fun in the right mood. Predictable, but fun. ;)

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  177. @Jay Fink
    I am a Jew without double standards. I don't have tattoos or take street drugs and wish more of the goyim were the same. Unfortunately some Jews have joined the tattooed herd such as Adam Levine from Maroon 5. My disgust towards tattoos is stronger than my love of fellow Jews.

    A while back The Daily Stormer had a series of articles on Orthodox Jews who owned tattoo parlors in NYC and have helped popularize the tattoo phenomena in the media targeting GenXers and millennials

    http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/191666/jews-and-tattoos-a-new-york-story

    Again I think Jews have a typically hypocritical attitude towards tattooing as with many other things like porn. If the net effect is to lead lots and lots of goyim to permanently fall down a rabbit hole then occasional Jewish causality as collateral damage in the great war against the goy is an acceptable loss.

    The following link concerning the heavily tattooed “Alt-Porn” performer Joanna Angel is a prime example.

    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/each-time-it-s-more-fun-1.225411

    Read More
  178. AM says:
    @AnotherDad

    OT: More immigriping… From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.
     
    Agree on the immigriping. (And Indians are among the worst. Though I know a few Indian Americans who are proud Trump voters.)

    Your statement is clearly not correct. India is the 3rd great civilization, after the West and China. In accomplishment distinctly behind those bookends of Eurasia. But it left the Mesolithic maybe 8000 years ago. It's distinctly a real civilization, not sub-Saharan Africa or anything like it.

    In terms of the pooping on the streets problem ... pooping in the fields is the natural practice for peasants and what they've done everywhere for a very long time. Replaced by the outhouse or chamber pot. Europe prior to the modern era industrial era was pretty hideous in the towns with people dumping their waste in the streets. India's continuing inability--or lack of desire--to prioritize and tackle its basic infrastructure needs in terms of roads, water, sewers, schools now 40+ years after becoming a nuclear weapons state is indeed embarrassing. (Would embarrass me if I was an Indian.)

    I think it says something both about Indians willingness to accept mediocrity and about the priorities you get in a caste stratified "multicultural" society as opposed to a "one people" nation. Of course as we "celebrate diversity" and import it from every benighted corner of the globe we are becoming both more stratified and mediocre ourselves. Our future may well look a lot more like India's--extreme income inequality, sprawling slumy areas, mediocre public services and infrastructure for the masses--if we don't rise up and stop it.

    India’s continuing inability–or lack of desire–to prioritize and tackle its basic infrastructure needs in terms of roads, water, sewers, schools now 40+ years after becoming a nuclear weapons state is indeed embarrassing. (Would embarrass me if I was an Indian.)

    This sentiment unfortunately undervalues what Western Civilization brings to the West and it’s mindset.

    India’s culture is rather fatalist as whole, which comes from it’s Hinduism. Christianity offers a strange bit of hope about the fate and dignity every individual, which makes pooping in the street quite embarrassing to anyone saturated in that mindset. In the Hindu what you see now is what you see forever. Why shouldn’t they poop in the streets? It’s the way it’s always been and always will be.

    Our future may well look a lot more like India’s–extreme income inequality, sprawling slumy areas, mediocre public services and infrastructure for the masses–if we don’t rise up and stop it.

    There’s no “rising up and stopping” what’s coming. The parallels with the end of Rome are almost impossible to ignore. We’ve lost our virtue, next comes an economic crash, and then we’re all dealing with the barbarians at our door. There’s still much to be done as individuals and I’m hopeful the worst might be blunted. But I don’t see a rise up in so much as I see small groups trying to band together.

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  179. Hibernian says:
    @markflag
    Actually her name is mispronounced Wo-jit-skee, a mispronunciation that exhibits a typical White American Female disregard for proper Polish pronunciation. Cultural misappropriation anyone? But perhaps she is genetically unable to make required sounds.

    For “cki” the proper Polish pronunciation is “ski,” but the inproper pronunciation “key” is commonly accepted; the proper pronunciation is really what the person with the name says it is. After a generation or two or three in America, “key” is more common. If it’s spelled “ski,” on the other hand, it’s pronounced “ski.”

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  180. Tracy says: • Website
    @Tiny Duck
    white Christians the real terrorists in America. Not Muslims. Not BLM. It's you and your parasitic kids.

    Here is white men can do better

    https://twitter.com/edskrein/status/902244967296491520

    Use your privilege to create space for others

    I think someone left the screen door open; it’s awfully gnatty in here.

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  181. utu says:
    @res

    More like 90% at most.
     
    Comment 76 (a response to you!) gives an example of someone who was stated as 98.5%. You understand I would take you much more seriously if you were less quick to make incorrect assumptions and better about owning your errors when they are pointed out, right?

    I have heard comments that 23andMe may overstate Ashkenazi ancestry, but have never really looked into it.

    Complaining about low SNR is the last excuse for the swine that keeps missing the pearls.
     
    The pearls are buried in so much feces that hopefully I can be excused if I miss some. This series of comments by you is not of the pearl form AFAICT.

    P.S. There is a difference between me calling your comments feces and you implying that I am a swine. One of those is much more personal than the other.

    I have heard comments that 23andMe may overstate Ashkenazi ancestry

    Potentially there might be a serious issue because of political ramifications. The biases of company founders and owners should be looked at. For instance this is from Bennett Greenspan of Family Tree DNA:

    http://www.avotaynuonline.com/2015/06/genetic-census-of-the-jewish-people/
    The urgency of our work is magnified by the fact that the legitimacy of the Jewish people and its claim to our ancestral home is currently under constant pseudo-historical attack. The media, particularly on the web, carries regular features from enemies of Israel describing theories to the effect that Ashkenazi Jews have no connection to the land of Israel and are, in fact, European and Central Asian interlopers.

    FamilyTreeDNA but my colleagues at 23andMe and Ancestry as well — we have found unmistakable evidence that Ashkenazi Jews are closely related to one another, meaning that from a genetic standpoint, all Jews are indeed part of one genetically united people with ample Middle Eastern and Mediterranean forebears.

    One may ask what’s more important: scientific integrity or politics expediency? FamilyTreeDNA, 23andMe and Ancestry ostensively are here to make money. $99 a pop. What standards do they adhere to? Who scrutinize them?

    P.S. Forget about the swine thing. It was just a metaphor I could not resit. Not every day I can quote Jesus.

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    • Replies: @res

    P.S. Forget about the swine thing. It was just a metaphor I could not resit. Not every day I can quote Jesus.
     
    Understood and thanks. I use that expression sometimes when I should not as well. I'll try to tone down my crankiness too.
  182. Tracy says: • Website
    @Numinous

    OT: More immigriping… From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.
    .
    .
    .
    In their own land they’d be squatting and shitting in the street.
     
    When the British first encountered India, the latter was arguably the more advanced civilization in everything except naval technology. That's why the British bothered to sail halfway around the world; to buy goods they couldn't get back home.

    And, by the way, you all (British, etc.) were shitting in pitchers by your bedsides around that time and for a while to come, so the comparison of pooping habits isn't so flattering to your lot.

    And, by the way, you all (British, etc.) were shitting in pitchers by your bedsides around that time and for a while to come, so the comparison of pooping habits isn’t so flattering to your lot.

    Ouch, you really got us there; before Europeans re-invented the thousands-of-years-old Roman (European) plumbing, we didn’t have that sort of plumbing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MG
    The Indus Valley societies had fairly sophisticated sanitation systems.
  183. MG says:
    @Anonymous
    OT: More immigriping... From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.

    http://littleindia.com/m-night-shyamalan-kal-penn-indian-origin-celebrities-slammed-trump/

    From M Night Shyamalan to Kal Penn, Indian-origin Stars Against Trump
    With Padma Lakshmi criticising Trump once again, here is a look at other Indian American celebrities who have condemned POTUS.

    ...Indian American model-turned-author Padma Lakshmi recently slammed US President Donald Trump, saying he is a “menace to society”. She was speaking at the 8th Mountain Echoes Literary Festival in Thimphu, Bhutan. This is not the first time the author has lashed out against the US president.

    Last year, during the run-up to the elections, the Variety magazine quoted her as saying: “Even if he wasn’t the racist buffoon that he is making himself out to be, I probably wouldn’t vote for him. But as an immigrant, I obviously don’t see his worldview as mine.”

    She added: “We are a country of immigrants, so to say you should put a wall up or limit certain ethnicities is sort of antithetical to what this country is about. He himself is an immigrant of immigrant descent. Unless you are from the Cherokee nation, your ancestors are immigrants so you may be an umpteenth generation immigrant but there you are, squatting on someone else’s land.”...
     

    In their own land they'd be squatting and shitting in the street.

    The comment about Indian civilization exhibits the author’s ignorance.

    As for anti-Trump Indian celebs – who cares? There are a good number of Indian Trump supporters here. I am one of them. Here in Silicon Valley, to admit support for Trump in Indian social circles takes a good deal of courage, so the Indian Trumpians tend to be mostly discreet about it. (For the record, I am open about my MAGA leanings.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    It's almost as if Indians' courage and independence rivals their hygeine. Who says Asians are collectivist, meek, and insular?
    , @Kaz
    > From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.

    I wouldn't waste your time responding to people like that. No point when he makes it clear it will never matter.
  184. @Altai
    Wow, she triggered 100%, not even the white 'men' of Buzzfeed managed that one. Does that make her less diverse and privileged than the two white gentiles in the video below? I mean in moral terms, I know both those guys material living conditions are not much above 'living in my car', given they (At least according to 23andMe) have some Sub-Saharan ancestry.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N06g2kc1Dxo

    I also like how the Jewish guy is the only one of the whites who is allowed to say he is proud of his heritage. (Not so sure if he makes other Jews feel less proud though.)

    And because it's almost relevant the famous video of Ylvis (The wrote 'What Does The Fox Say') high-fiving the host of a Norwegian talk show when it's revealed they're both 100% non-diverse.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzFur_8iHbA&t=0m33s

    There’s a lot of hooey in their claims, like telling the Korean guy he must have had a great-great grandfather who was pure Chinese. This is because of population structure, where the founding Korean population happened to have Chinese genes already, and there hasn’t been a pure Chinese in that population for thousands of years. And, the Japanese are in large part descended from a group that was originally in Korea.

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/koreans-not-quite-the-purest-race/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Altai
    Then you have the issue of the references they used. Remember they only have about 37, is only having a few East Asian references making it 'assign' haplotypes across them in a way it's less inclined to in the European references? And then you have the problem that many of the original AIMs were found in European references with many later found to be fixed or near fixation in East Asian populations who have higher overall runs of homozygosity, their ancestors went through more population bottlenecks and less genetic introgression from outside populations and are thus more similar to each other anyway. Is 23andMe's method optimised towards European ancestry and not as able to distinguish East Asian ancestry?

    Remember they keep their method a total secret so it's unclear exactly what they're doing.
  185. MG says:
    @Tracy

    And, by the way, you all (British, etc.) were shitting in pitchers by your bedsides around that time and for a while to come, so the comparison of pooping habits isn’t so flattering to your lot.
     
    Ouch, you really got us there; before Europeans re-invented the thousands-of-years-old Roman (European) plumbing, we didn't have that sort of plumbing.

    The Indus Valley societies had fairly sophisticated sanitation systems.

    Read More
  186. @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    Elizabeth Warren, is that you? My golly Pocahontas, how long have you been frequenting at UNZ?

    #bafflingnonsequitur

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  187. @Alden
    That's very true. One of my siblings DNA came back 30% French/German so it applies to all of us. She did ask about it and was assured that French and Germans have the same DNA.

    They are probably the same mix of indigenous Celt and later German invaders. The Nordic Protestant wing of White Nationalism will never accept that the Latin language non reformation French are the same as their much admired Germans

    Even on amren I've read comments that all French are part African from ancient migration.

    Do people really believe what you write? The Franks are Germanic; the Gauls these Franks (and the Romans before them…) displaced were Celts. Who argues French are not primarily Germanic and Celtic, and how in light if the incontrovertibe facts? Is the idea that because a Romance language, rather than a Germanic language, continued as the vernacular the Franks are not truly Germanic? I don’t know, I suppose the vanquished Romans did contribute a significant genetic substrate to the entire affair in a way that didn’t occur in Germany – but the same could be said of the (therefore not Germanic?) peoples of Britain, who were also ruled by Rome once upon a time before the Angles came….

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    In what way precisely do you believe you differ from Alden above?
    , @Anonymous
    The French are mainly a mix of Gallic and Mediterranean, with the southern half of French more Mediterranean and the northern half more Gallic. The Germanic part is more of a minor component. The Franks were invaders who established themselves as a ruling class over the more numerous Gallic and Mediterranean peasantry and townsfolk.
  188. @Mr. Anon
    You got to hand it to Sergey Brin, throwing over his wife for a younger and less attractive woman. I guess those Google-glasses double as beer-goggles.

    You got to hand it to Sergey Brin, throwing over his wife for a younger and less attractive woman. I guess those Google-glasses double as beer-goggles.

    Disagree. These things are obviously a matter of taste.

    But I think pretty objectively the Wojcicki sisters are not “attractive” in the looks department. Not “unattractive”, just not attractive–very … average. The eyes and chin are not winners. The only thing that could plausibly makes Anne Wojcicki perhaps a bit better than average is that she doesn’t seem to have put on a bunch of weight which is–taking the moms in my scout troop as a decent sample–not something you can say about a good number of even UMC American women these days. Susan to me–going by her recent pics–has not aged well and does not have a face I would like to wake up to in the morning. (I’ve got a decent sample of 50-something moms in my neighborhood, Susan is average to below average.)

    Amanda Rosenberg on the other hand is–in the pic sample which is presumably her late 20s–not any sort of knockout, but at least hints of being “cute”. She has a more explicitly feminine look than the Wojcickis. How she’ll look in 10 years at 40, or in 20 years at 50 … hard to say. But i’d guess–weight control dependent–slightly better looking than the Wojcickis.

    Call the Wojcickis sisters “5″s and Amanda Rosenberg a “6″.

    However, that’s all just looks. Anne immediately going in search of dark meat, suggests leaving her behind was a good decision. From just the quickest look in response to your post, Amanda Rosenberg strikes me as the “attention whoring” type who has a 1000 pictures of herself on facebook. Brin–who’s a reasonably decent looking guy for a Russian Jewish tech nerd–should be able to do much better than either of these women. Even just dating from the staff he should be able to find a young gal who is smart, cute, healthy and with good genes and good character who’ll be a high quality wife and mother, assuming he wants to have a second family.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I decided to investigate the appearance of all these women for myself, and all I can add is:

    If I were unmarried, Lucy Southworth could get it.

    Not that she'd have my (relatively) broke arse.

    How's that for sexist locker-room talk in Silly Valley?
    , @Steve Sailer
    The Wojcicki Sisters have seven children between them.
  189. @MG
    The comment about Indian civilization exhibits the author's ignorance.

    As for anti-Trump Indian celebs - who cares? There are a good number of Indian Trump supporters here. I am one of them. Here in Silicon Valley, to admit support for Trump in Indian social circles takes a good deal of courage, so the Indian Trumpians tend to be mostly discreet about it. (For the record, I am open about my MAGA leanings.)

    It’s almost as if Indians’ courage and independence rivals their hygeine. Who says Asians are collectivist, meek, and insular?

    Read More
  190. @AnotherDad

    You got to hand it to Sergey Brin, throwing over his wife for a younger and less attractive woman. I guess those Google-glasses double as beer-goggles.
     
    Disagree. These things are obviously a matter of taste.

    But I think pretty objectively the Wojcicki sisters are not "attractive" in the looks department. Not "unattractive", just not attractive--very ... average. The eyes and chin are not winners. The only thing that could plausibly makes Anne Wojcicki perhaps a bit better than average is that she doesn't seem to have put on a bunch of weight which is--taking the moms in my scout troop as a decent sample--not something you can say about a good number of even UMC American women these days. Susan to me--going by her recent pics--has not aged well and does not have a face I would like to wake up to in the morning. (I've got a decent sample of 50-something moms in my neighborhood, Susan is average to below average.)

    Amanda Rosenberg on the other hand is--in the pic sample which is presumably her late 20s--not any sort of knockout, but at least hints of being "cute". She has a more explicitly feminine look than the Wojcickis. How she'll look in 10 years at 40, or in 20 years at 50 ... hard to say. But i'd guess--weight control dependent--slightly better looking than the Wojcickis.

    Call the Wojcickis sisters "5"s and Amanda Rosenberg a "6".

    However, that's all just looks. Anne immediately going in search of dark meat, suggests leaving her behind was a good decision. From just the quickest look in response to your post, Amanda Rosenberg strikes me as the "attention whoring" type who has a 1000 pictures of herself on facebook. Brin--who's a reasonably decent looking guy for a Russian Jewish tech nerd--should be able to do much better than either of these women. Even just dating from the staff he should be able to find a young gal who is smart, cute, healthy and with good genes and good character who'll be a high quality wife and mother, assuming he wants to have a second family.

    I decided to investigate the appearance of all these women for myself, and all I can add is:

    If I were unmarried, Lucy Southworth could get it.

    Not that she’d have my (relatively) broke arse.

    How’s that for sexist locker-room talk in Silly Valley?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Speaking of Southworth, here's some racy speculation with an HBD angle:

    Given what we now empirically know about her actual managerial talents from her tenure at Yahoo!, and Marissa Meyer's similarity to a known type of woman deemed attractive by Google, Inc.'s own leadership, is it possible this is an indication about how and why she (Meyer) really was promoted at Google, Inc.? To be clear: the idea is pure speculation, but I think it potentially interesting, given how barren of actual meritocracy, and how Byzantine, incestuous, and driven by cronyism the whole scene in Silly Valley (and indeed throughout the ranks of the so-called elite) truly is....
  191. Broski says:
    @BenKenobi
    Yeah but the whole anti-drug/alcohol stance is completely discredited by the rampant sexcapades with young groupies (I wonder how much they were abstaining btw).

    At least in my opinion. If you're gonna be whoring around, don't do things by half-measures.

    Are you familiar with Portnoy’s Complaint? Simmons lives down to all the worst stereotypes about his people.

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  192. Broski says:
    @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    Don't much about the rest of your harangue but on one thing you are absolutely correct: The British were savages, bloodthirsty and uncouth ignorant savages...

    Take up the White Man’s burden -
    The savage wars of peace -
    Fill full the mouth of famine
    And bid the sickness cease;
    And when your goal is nearest
    The end for others sought,
    Watch Sloth and heathen Folly
    Bring all your hopes to nought.

    Take up the White Man’s burden -
    And reap his old reward,
    The blame of those ye better,
    The hate of those ye guard –
    The cry of hosts ye humour
    (Ah slowly !) towards the light:-
    “Why brought ye us from bondage,
    “Our loved Egyptian night ?”

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    • Replies: @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    The white man's burden was the white man... Kipling knew it all too well thus the preemptive strike against the non-whites to camouflage it. And that expediency which was palliative treatment is haunting his heirs even to this day.
  193. Impolitic says:


    “And I suspect Google employs a disproportionate number of ex-men transgenders among its programmers.”

    This is true, but what made you suspect it?

    Read More
  194. Olorin says:
    @Tiny Duck
    white Christians the real terrorists in America. Not Muslims. Not BLM. It's you and your parasitic kids.

    Here is white men can do better

    https://twitter.com/edskrein/status/902244967296491520

    Use your privilege to create space for others

    I’m creating space for this tiny Italian dinosaur.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEPv31_E__4

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  195. gda says:
    @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    Don't much about the rest of your harangue but on one thing you are absolutely correct: The British were savages, bloodthirsty and uncouth ignorant savages...

    Uncouth? Yes, no doubt. Travelling to India in 1600 wasn’t for the faint of heart.

    Bloodthirsty? You’ve obviously mistaken the British for their Indian sepoys who comprised around 96% of the British East India Company’s “army”.

    Savages? You mean like throwing live wives on their dead husband’s funeral pyre? Or performing “baby-dropping”? Or female infanticide? Honour killing?

    The British in India with EIC were the ones stealing the Company blind. No doubt unpleasant characters, most of them. Luckily the Raj eventually took over and all was well.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    Plenty of sea traffic between India and the east coast of Africa... Europeans were just a tad bit late to the party for which they made up plenty later with excessive zeal...

    Indians blood lust among themselves is no different from European against European, however, as outsiders with peculiar ideas about faith and rights, their savagery was indeed unique...

    There were plenty of abomination in the British society that would put India's own to shame... it's all relative!
  196. Kaz says:
    @MG
    The comment about Indian civilization exhibits the author's ignorance.

    As for anti-Trump Indian celebs - who cares? There are a good number of Indian Trump supporters here. I am one of them. Here in Silicon Valley, to admit support for Trump in Indian social circles takes a good deal of courage, so the Indian Trumpians tend to be mostly discreet about it. (For the record, I am open about my MAGA leanings.)

    > From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.

    I wouldn’t waste your time responding to people like that. No point when he makes it clear it will never matter.

    Read More
  197. @Tiny Duck
    white Christians the real terrorists in America. Not Muslims. Not BLM. It's you and your parasitic kids.

    Here is white men can do better

    https://twitter.com/edskrein/status/902244967296491520

    Use your privilege to create space for others

    Would bored identity ever pull the TROLLey level on Tiny D to save a half dozen meaningful conversations?

    Neeeeever;

    Here is black man doing even better by blackity blacksplainin’ why ” I’m OK, You’re Not So Hot” concept is crucial in defense of Cultural Marvelization of Norse- Teutonic Mythological Realm:

    “There has been a big debate about it:
    can a black man play a Nordic character?” Idris Elba told TV Times.

    “Hang about, Thor’s mythical, right?

    Thor has a hammer that flies to him when he clicks his fingers.

    That’s OK, but the colour of my skin is wrong?”

    “I was cast in Thor and I’m cast as a Nordic god,” he said.

    “If you know anything about the Nords, they don’t look like me but there you go.”

    ” I think that’s a sign of the times for the future. I think we will see multi-level casting.

    I think we will see that, and I think that’s good. ”

    http://comicsalliance.com/racists-thor-idris-ebla-racism/

    1. ) Original Heimdall from 17. century Icelandic manuscript/ ‘picturebook’ :

    2. ) Trans Version of Culturaly Marvelized Heimdall from bored identity’s childhood:

    3.) The Current Century, Full Retard- Marvelized Heimdall as a Magic Nordic Negro and his Rainbow Asgard Autobahn:

    https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/113509/4833937-4507520529-latest

    Bonus:
    ‘ Only for Ta-Nehisi, Jeet Heer,and Other Genius Kids That Can’t Read Good Comic Books And Want To Do Other Things Good Too’ – Marvel Alternate Reality That Nobody Buys Anymore (Literally) :

    http://worldofblackheroes.com/2015/05/22/thor-character/

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    • Replies: @Truth

    Thor has a hammer that flies to him when he clicks his fingers.
     

    That’s OK, but the colour of my skin is wrong?”
     
    Well now, I'd say the young man has a pretty logical point there, what's yours?
  198. @Tiny Duck
    Statues glorifying dead white makes have no place in a free society. They are e monuments to oppression slavery and privilege

    Right on brother, get rid of those stale pale males from the wrong side of history, and replace them with modern progressives like future leader of the free world, Augustus Zuckerberg.

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  199. Altai says:
    @Grace Jones
    There's a lot of hooey in their claims, like telling the Korean guy he must have had a great-great grandfather who was pure Chinese. This is because of population structure, where the founding Korean population happened to have Chinese genes already, and there hasn't been a pure Chinese in that population for thousands of years. And, the Japanese are in large part descended from a group that was originally in Korea.
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/koreans-not-quite-the-purest-race/

    Then you have the issue of the references they used. Remember they only have about 37, is only having a few East Asian references making it ‘assign’ haplotypes across them in a way it’s less inclined to in the European references? And then you have the problem that many of the original AIMs were found in European references with many later found to be fixed or near fixation in East Asian populations who have higher overall runs of homozygosity, their ancestors went through more population bottlenecks and less genetic introgression from outside populations and are thus more similar to each other anyway. Is 23andMe’s method optimised towards European ancestry and not as able to distinguish East Asian ancestry?

    Remember they keep their method a total secret so it’s unclear exactly what they’re doing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Grace Jones
    I can't figure out what your run-on sentences mean. But, the other major problem is that they're pretending that small percentages are legitimate rather than false positives.
  200. @syonredux
    Off-topic,

    Get WOKE to the Becky menace:

    Becky: (noun); a white woman who uses her privilege as a weapon, a ladder or an excuse. Ex: “A random Becky hit me up on Twitter to explain why not all white women are racist.”
     

    Rebecca

    This is the standard, off-the shelf Becky with no adornments, around whom the entire world revolves. When “alt-righters” recite the 14 words, “Because the beauty of the white Aryan woman must not perish from the earth,” this is about whom they are talking. This is for whom they made Forever 21. This is for whom they make Pantene hair conditioner. This is for whom they made America.
     

    Famous Rebeccas: Taylor Swift; Megyn Kelly; the girl in your study group who makes an A while doing none of the work.

     


    Becca

    The most innocent of all Beckies, she volunteers at the local Boys & Girls Club teaching underprivileged youths. She voted for Barack Obama. She wears a safety pin and has a Black Lives Matter T-shirt. One of Becca’s best friends is black. She is an “ally.” Did I mention she voted for Barack Obama?

    Becca wants to help ... as long as it is convenient and comfortable. Even though Becca isn’t a racist, her idea of black people is of a downtrodden underclass that just needs a little help from benevolent white people. Becca is pure of heart and holds no animosity toward anyone. She is willing to “do the work ... ” But not really.
     

    Famous Beccas: Hillary Clinton; Katy Perry; white women who work at “nonprofits.”
     

    Beckeisha

    Part of the privilege of Beckydom rests in its members’ unflagging belief that everything belongs to them. For this subset of Beckies, culture, history and black penis are all disposable commodities for them to use and discard at their whim. In their belief system, you can’t be offended when they appropriate a culture or call something “ghetto,” because they don’t have a racist bone in their body. Plus, they once had a black boner inside their body, so how can they be racist?
     

    Famous Beckeishas: Anyone with the last name “Kardashian”; Miley Cyrus; Rachel Dolezal; white girls who twerk.
     

    Reba

    Reba believes in equality. Reba is a feminist. Reba is “woke.”

    Reba believes in a woman’s right to choose and wore a pink pussy hat to the Women’s March, but Reba believes all lives matter. Reba speaks of the glass ceiling but wonders why black people always play “the race card.” Reba believes that a woman has the right to do whatever she wants with her body, but agrees that your hair is “unprofessional.” Reba loves Beyoncé’s “Single Ladies” but wonders why she had to pay homage to the Black Panthers at the Super Bowl and mention “Negro noses” in “Formation.” Reba cried for Justine Damond and Heather Heyer, but if you mention Rekia Boyd or Sandra Bland, Reba will ask, “Is that the one who was on the Olympics gymnastics team?”

     


    Famous Rebas: Amy Schumer; Lena Dunham; Jezebel readers.
     

    Beckzilla

    Beckzillas don’t give a fuck. They roam the streets stomping on everything, setting the world ablaze by spewing the flames of privilege every time they breathe.

     


    Famous Beckzillas: Betsy DeVos; Betty Shelby; Kellyanne Conway; Tomi Lahren.

     

    http://www.theroot.com/the-five-types-of-becky-1798543210

    Thanks for posting, very interesting. I guess the conclusion is that no matter what kind of white woman you are, you’re a racist. If you’re “willing to do the work” (whatever that means) you’re still racist. Even if you have sex with black men, you’re a racist.

    The game is rigged, but you can’t lose if you don’t play.

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  201. Jack D says:
    @utu
    98.5%, Thanks. I thought maximum would be closer to 90% but it depends on how 23andme calibrates their method; what is the reference "pure blood" Ashkenazi sample they opted for?

    If you had an offspring by 0% Jewish spouse it could not be 50% Jewish, yet Ms. Wojcicki is which means her father must have some Jewish markers or 23andme engages in some shenanigans:

    if(x==Wojcicki) then y_aj≥50%
     

    There is some random noise in the 23 and me results so a couple of percent one way or the other doesn’t mean anything. But it would not be unusual for a non-Jewish Pole to have a few % Ashkenazi genes so if her mother was 98% Jewish and her father was 4% Jewish she could come back as 52% Jewish. I don’t understand why you care. The clear implication is that Ms. W is 1/2 Jewish and 1/2 Polish – the rest is meaningless. If you are trying to harvest meaning from the last few % points of 23 and me results you are on a futile quest.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TelfoedJohn

    if her mother was 98% Jewish and her father was 4% Jewish she could come back as 52% Jewish
     
    I believe this is shown at the bottom of Anne's page that Steve linked to: https://you.23andme.com/published/reports/6999ce120ded4584/

    If you click on Ashkenazi Jewish underneath the chromosome list, you will see most of the X chromosomes (mothers side) light up, but also a few Y chromosomes meaning that the fathers side has a few AshJ ancestors. Clicking on Eastern European gives you roughly the opposite.

    Is this how it works? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
    , @utu
    I don’t understand why you care.

    This is about the definitions and methods used by commercial outfits like 23andme that want to make a buck and clients happy first. Scientific integrity comes second.
  202. Jack D says:
    @anonymous-antimarxist
    Simmons is your classic smug neocon ultra-zionist who loves America merely for what he and "his people" can exploit from it. You may think that is patriotism but I don't.

    Remember this classic clip from his "reality" cable TV show Gene Simmon's "Family Jewels"

    Gene Simmons "That Is What Gentiles Are For" - YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j72hW9RdbdI

    Very few of the hardcore Kiss fans I went to high school with back in the seventies knew that the real Gene Simmons (along with Paul Stanley?) was an anti-drug and alcohol teetotaler who thought drugs and alcohol were for the weak. What they did hear from Simmons was his boasting about having had sex with thousands of teen groupies most of whom were probably high at the time.

    Likewise lots of goyim Kiss fans have tattoos of the band, especially of Simmons

    But does Gene Simmons have any tattoos???
    https://www.quora.com/What-tattoos-does-Gene-Simmons-have


    Gene Simmons has no tattoos. I believe tattoos are taboo in Judaism.
    But most importantly, since his Mother [whom he adores] survived the Holocaust, getting a tattoo would be in extremely bad taste, nevermind how disrespectful.
    He surely never even CONSIDERED getting a tattoo.
     

    A lot of current generation (what generation are we up to , Z?) young Jews, male and female, get tattoos. They are even popular in Israel. Tattoos are very fashionable now. When I was growing up, the only people I knew who had tattoos were grizzly old alkies. The only Jews I knew who had tattoos were people like my aunt who had Auschwitz #s on their arms.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    A lot of current generation (what generation are we up to , Z?) young Jews, male and female, get tattoos. They are even popular in Israel. Tattoos are very fashionable now.
     
    When they turn into parents and then grandparents (God willing), their grandchildren are going to look at the sagging, ugly messes of ink and pass (God willing).

    When I was growing up, the only people I knew who had tattoos were grizzly old alkies.
     
    Because it's low class and it's still low class. If someone wants to expresses themselves and be different, dress well. It's really sad how awful both clothing has gotten and the desperate young people are to feel like they've got some sort of identity.
    , @anonguy

    A lot of current generation (what generation are we up to , Z?) young Jews, male and female, get tattoos. They are even popular in Israel. Tattoos are very fashionable now. When I was growing up, the only people I knew who had tattoos were grizzly old alkies.
     
    I got a tattoo in 1976 right after getting out of USMC boot camp, long before tattoos came into style.

    I regretted it almost immediately and it was something considered insanely low class at the time and for about 15 years thereafter on a climb through middle class respectability - college, USN officer.

    It really was like that 80s movie, Officer and a Gentleman where the Dad tells the kid officers don't have tattoos.

    I used to thank god I had at least gotten it on my upper arm and could usually hide it with a polo shirt.

    Funny thing, though, was that although the public in general deplored tattoos as a common ethic, every woman I was involved with during those years secretly thought it was quite sexy. I guess that bad boy thing.

    As usual, eventually the other guys sense this and start aping the behavior in a cargo-cult manner and tattoos become popular. Same thing, and right around the same time, early 90s, as Harley Davidsons became popular with the dentists/lawyers.

    So yeah, I definitely took pains to conceal my tattoo for many years until they came back into style. But every time I mentioned having it removed, my then girlfriend would always protest, "No, its you".

    Now here is the funny part. I long ago gave up the idea of getting it removed, but 4 decades on it is largely a blurry patch.

    Recently, I was walking past a trendy Oregon tattoo parlor and I thought, well maybe I'll ask these guys about getting it sharpened up a little bit. I've heard where they can do this sort of thing.

    So I popped in, there are a bunch of young Portlandia type guys working there. They start clustering around me looking at my tattoo and are utterly horrified at the idea of touching this up.

    It is vintage Americana, a genuine USMC tattoo from back in the day when it was done by drunks in skeezy tattoo parlors in red light districts. It would be like repainting original paint job on a 57 Chevy.

    Am I nuts?

    Then, one guy starts talking about this or that famous tattoo designer from back in the day and then runs over to the the wall where they have some of his stencils worshipfully framed.

    And points out my exact tattoo, just some eagle/flag/banner deal.

    So I'm like, ok, I guess I'm never getting rid of this thing. I told my wife that after I die my survivors should cut it off my arm and auction it on ebay.
    , @anonymous-antimarxist
    If younger Jews are getting tattoos is it a case of the elder subversion peddlers corrupting their own youth???

    Kind of like the crack dealer who ends up shocked that his sister, and perhaps even his mom end up crack whores???

    Tattoos Rule in Israel - Despite Jewish Law and Holocaust Taboo
    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/culture/leisure/.premium-1.574672

    When I was growing up, the only people I knew who had tattoos were grizzly old alkies.
     
    I agree, I am of the age where I can relate to what I believe is an old Jeff Foxworthy, Tim Allen or perhaps Larry the Cable Guy joke.

    "I am so old that back in my day not even the porn stars had tattoos"
  203. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous
    OT: More immigriping... From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.

    http://littleindia.com/m-night-shyamalan-kal-penn-indian-origin-celebrities-slammed-trump/

    From M Night Shyamalan to Kal Penn, Indian-origin Stars Against Trump
    With Padma Lakshmi criticising Trump once again, here is a look at other Indian American celebrities who have condemned POTUS.

    ...Indian American model-turned-author Padma Lakshmi recently slammed US President Donald Trump, saying he is a “menace to society”. She was speaking at the 8th Mountain Echoes Literary Festival in Thimphu, Bhutan. This is not the first time the author has lashed out against the US president.

    Last year, during the run-up to the elections, the Variety magazine quoted her as saying: “Even if he wasn’t the racist buffoon that he is making himself out to be, I probably wouldn’t vote for him. But as an immigrant, I obviously don’t see his worldview as mine.”

    She added: “We are a country of immigrants, so to say you should put a wall up or limit certain ethnicities is sort of antithetical to what this country is about. He himself is an immigrant of immigrant descent. Unless you are from the Cherokee nation, your ancestors are immigrants so you may be an umpteenth generation immigrant but there you are, squatting on someone else’s land.”...
     

    In their own land they'd be squatting and shitting in the street.

    Yes, who has not seen that Mesolithic rock pile called the “Taj Mahal”? These people clearly never advanced beyond the stage of crude stone huts.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    Yes, who has not seen that Mesolithic rock pile called the “Taj Mahal”? These people clearly never advanced beyond the stage of crude stone huts.
     
    Yeah, it's a nice mausoleum. When the British got there they outlawed widow burning, which still happens occasionally even today, and there is a significant lack of girls in the population because they're too expensive. They're selectively killed through abortion.

    Some girl who was exiled from her family (so homeless) for getting pregnant out of wedlock gave birth to her baby on the street, alone, at 5am because the local health clinic wouldn't let her in with a guardian. Really. That was sometime last week.

    I'm okay talking about comparative architecture - apples to apples. But comparing architecture to cultural practices is just silliness.
  204. songbird says:
    @Jack Hanson
    I saw one in the similar vein where the woman is Spanish, Italian, North African, and Lebanese and talks on about how she's from "all around the world".

    I definitely see a lot of commercials which seem to be pushing a multi-racial ideology. What was funny to me was mainly how they framed the commercial.

    It’s my thought that most white Americans know their roots, at least in a vague way, same thing with Asians, Hispanics, and Indians, so it is a boring product for them. I’ll bet there are a relatively more mixed-race people who never knew their father or some of their grandparents. Many blacks are in the same boat, but history should at least point them to certain regions.

    Read More
  205. @Flip
    So do the English look more like the Irish or the Germans?

    The English vary, in quite obvious “lumps” (i.e. no smooth clines, neighbouring “types” can sometimes be very distinct from each other), sometimes to a quite alarming degree (cough cough Norfolk, or Westmorland cough). A few look “Black Irish”, some tall, some tiny, some look like Hollywood vikings, basically Danish. Most look (to me) vaguely Walloon Belgian in the south, and more Scandy in the north. The Scots look either weirdly Dutch, or very Irish.
    What a “True German” looks like I have no idea, they seem all over the map, phenotypically.

    Here’s a speculative maybe; ages-old parish system and Poor Law inhibiting internal migration among the plebs, on top of rank Feudalism, on top of the xenophobic and fractious, basically tribal/folk units in the Early Mediaeval period.
    All blown up by iron, coal, canals, railways etc. , excess rural pop’n. ending up in the towns, mills and mines and “miscegenating” with the likes of the Welsh, Irish and Scots. The big separator there was religious denomination, even in my parents’ day, right down to the most obscure sect. Independent Order of Methodists? Or Independent Methodist Order?? You just didn’t. Or else you emigrated.
    Quakers were regarded with as much suspicion as the Jews, and Catholics indistinguishable in their benighted minds from Cannibals.
    The landward areas just stayed the same, but a lot emptier, and still expelling their spare people to the urban population sinks and the joys of rickets, typhoid, tuberculosis and cholera.

    Read More
  206. AM says:
    @Jack D
    A lot of current generation (what generation are we up to , Z?) young Jews, male and female, get tattoos. They are even popular in Israel. Tattoos are very fashionable now. When I was growing up, the only people I knew who had tattoos were grizzly old alkies. The only Jews I knew who had tattoos were people like my aunt who had Auschwitz #s on their arms.

    A lot of current generation (what generation are we up to , Z?) young Jews, male and female, get tattoos. They are even popular in Israel. Tattoos are very fashionable now.

    When they turn into parents and then grandparents (God willing), their grandchildren are going to look at the sagging, ugly messes of ink and pass (God willing).

    When I was growing up, the only people I knew who had tattoos were grizzly old alkies.

    Because it’s low class and it’s still low class. If someone wants to expresses themselves and be different, dress well. It’s really sad how awful both clothing has gotten and the desperate young people are to feel like they’ve got some sort of identity.

    Read More
  207. AM says:
    @Jack D
    Yes, who has not seen that Mesolithic rock pile called the "Taj Mahal"? These people clearly never advanced beyond the stage of crude stone huts.

    Yes, who has not seen that Mesolithic rock pile called the “Taj Mahal”? These people clearly never advanced beyond the stage of crude stone huts.

    Yeah, it’s a nice mausoleum. When the British got there they outlawed widow burning, which still happens occasionally even today, and there is a significant lack of girls in the population because they’re too expensive. They’re selectively killed through abortion.

    Some girl who was exiled from her family (so homeless) for getting pregnant out of wedlock gave birth to her baby on the street, alone, at 5am because the local health clinic wouldn’t let her in with a guardian. Really. That was sometime last week.

    I’m okay talking about comparative architecture – apples to apples. But comparing architecture to cultural practices is just silliness.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Mesolithic = Middle Stone Age = an archaeological, even architectural category
  208. @Jack D
    There is some random noise in the 23 and me results so a couple of percent one way or the other doesn't mean anything. But it would not be unusual for a non-Jewish Pole to have a few % Ashkenazi genes so if her mother was 98% Jewish and her father was 4% Jewish she could come back as 52% Jewish. I don't understand why you care. The clear implication is that Ms. W is 1/2 Jewish and 1/2 Polish - the rest is meaningless. If you are trying to harvest meaning from the last few % points of 23 and me results you are on a futile quest.

    if her mother was 98% Jewish and her father was 4% Jewish she could come back as 52% Jewish

    I believe this is shown at the bottom of Anne’s page that Steve linked to: https://you.23andme.com/published/reports/6999ce120ded4584/

    If you click on Ashkenazi Jewish underneath the chromosome list, you will see most of the X chromosomes (mothers side) light up, but also a few Y chromosomes meaning that the fathers side has a few AshJ ancestors. Clicking on Eastern European gives you roughly the opposite.

    Is this how it works? Please correct me if I’m wrong.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Interesting. You're wrong about the Y chromosome (as a woman Anne does not have one of those). But autosomal chromosomes 11 and 15 definitely show what you are talking about. And those are rather large fragments. IMHO the graphic does confirm Jack D's assessment is on target.

    To explain a bit, the X and Y chromosomes are special and referred to as the sex chromosomes--see https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/chromosome/X
    The 22 autosomal chromosome pairs are generally referred to by number (roughly ordered largest to smallest). If I read this link correctly: https://customercare.23andme.com/hc/en-us/articles/212193688-Phasing-and-Inheritance
    23andMe only determines the phasing (which parent a given SNP comes from) if parental data is available. Does anyone know if the chromosome graphic in TelfoedJohn's link uses actual phasing data (it seems a safe bet Anne's parents have been run through 23andMe) or do they use another approach to assign the fragments?
    , @Jack D
    Thanks for this.
  209. benjaminl says:
    @AnotherDad

    OT: More immigriping… From the people who would still be at the Mesolithic stage of civilization were it not for the British Raj.
     
    Agree on the immigriping. (And Indians are among the worst. Though I know a few Indian Americans who are proud Trump voters.)

    Your statement is clearly not correct. India is the 3rd great civilization, after the West and China. In accomplishment distinctly behind those bookends of Eurasia. But it left the Mesolithic maybe 8000 years ago. It's distinctly a real civilization, not sub-Saharan Africa or anything like it.

    In terms of the pooping on the streets problem ... pooping in the fields is the natural practice for peasants and what they've done everywhere for a very long time. Replaced by the outhouse or chamber pot. Europe prior to the modern era industrial era was pretty hideous in the towns with people dumping their waste in the streets. India's continuing inability--or lack of desire--to prioritize and tackle its basic infrastructure needs in terms of roads, water, sewers, schools now 40+ years after becoming a nuclear weapons state is indeed embarrassing. (Would embarrass me if I was an Indian.)

    I think it says something both about Indians willingness to accept mediocrity and about the priorities you get in a caste stratified "multicultural" society as opposed to a "one people" nation. Of course as we "celebrate diversity" and import it from every benighted corner of the globe we are becoming both more stratified and mediocre ourselves. Our future may well look a lot more like India's--extreme income inequality, sprawling slumy areas, mediocre public services and infrastructure for the masses--if we don't rise up and stop it.

    The Open Borders Blog just posted a pretty interesting book review about the public pooping.

    http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2017/08/where-india-goes.html

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  210. prole says:
    @Anon
    We focus on relations among races but among blacks and Hispanics, it's more complicated.

    In the US, to count as white, one has to be all white or mostly white(and maybe some arab, asian, or Meso. Steve Jobs was white for example.)

    But to count as black, you could be anyone from light-skinned mulatto with straight hair to coal-black Negroid with nappy hair. Things are even more complicated with 'Hispanic' or 'Latino', a useless category if there ever was one.

    Anyway, if most whites are all white, blacks range from light-skinned(with far more white DNA) to dark-skinned. Since light-skinned blacks have more white genes or Jewish genes, and since white/Jewish IQ is higher than black IQ, the chances are white-blacks(or whacks or blites) will have higher IQ than black-blacks.
    So, over time, black community will be about white-blacks ruling over black-blacks. We see this in government and academia. Especially blacks with Jewish blood tend to be especially elevated. They got some Jewish IQ and also Affirmative Action. That is a terrific boost: high natural IQ and state favoritism.

    So, this white vs black dichotomy is too simple.

    We should talk of whites, white-blacks, and blacks.

    Same with Hispanics and Latinos. Bunching all them folks together is ridiculous. We need separate terms, and TERMS ARE KEY to political discussion.

    Terminology terminates and locks in meaning.

    So much of current politics is confused because the current terminology is so fuzzy wuzzy in relation to certain social phenom.

    It is surprising that Blacks seem to accept those who are just 25% Black as deserving of affirmative action. Halle Berry , a mulatto raised by her white mother is considered equally deserving of affirmative action as 100% negros and insists her daughter is Black, despite having 3 white grandparents…

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  211. Truth says:
    @bored identity
    Would bored identity ever pull the TROLLey level on Tiny D to save a half dozen meaningful conversations?

    Neeeeever;


    Here is black man doing even better by blackity blacksplainin' why " I'm OK, You're Not So Hot" concept is crucial in defense of Cultural Marvelization of Norse- Teutonic Mythological Realm:



    “There has been a big debate about it:
    can a black man play a Nordic character?” Idris Elba told TV Times.


    “Hang about, Thor’s mythical, right?

    Thor has a hammer that flies to him when he clicks his fingers.

    That’s OK, but the colour of my skin is wrong?"

    “I was cast in Thor and I’m cast as a Nordic god,” he said.

    “If you know anything about the Nords, they don’t look like me but there you go."

    " I think that’s a sign of the times for the future. I think we will see multi-level casting.

    I think we will see that, and I think that’s good. "


    http://comicsalliance.com/racists-thor-idris-ebla-racism/

     

    1. ) Original Heimdall from 17. century Icelandic manuscript/ 'picturebook' :

    http://static.newworldencyclopedia.org/b/b3/AM_738_4to_Valh%C3%B6ll.jpg


    2. ) Trans Version of Culturaly Marvelized Heimdall from bored identity's childhood:

    http://www.comicbookreligion.com/img/h/e/Heimdall.jpg


    3.) The Current Century, Full Retard- Marvelized Heimdall as a Magic Nordic Negro and his Rainbow Asgard Autobahn:

    https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/113509/4833937-4507520529-latest

    Bonus:
    ' Only for Ta-Nehisi, Jeet Heer,and Other Genius Kids That Can't Read Good Comic Books And Want To Do Other Things Good Too' - Marvel Alternate Reality That Nobody Buys Anymore (Literally) :

    http://worldofblackheroes.com/2015/05/22/thor-character/

    Thor has a hammer that flies to him when he clicks his fingers.

    That’s OK, but the colour of my skin is wrong?”

    Well now, I’d say the young man has a pretty logical point there, what’s yours?

    Read More
  212. Lurker says:
    @Flip
    So do the English look more like the Irish or the Germans?

    More like the Germans I would say – with several qualifications!

    Read More
  213. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Regarding Taylor, I agree with you that the comments should be left on. Open debate is good.

    Checked out some of your comments. You definitely have an interest in Africa. Your comments on IQ and genetics are detailed and knowledgeable, but you don't stand up well to counter-arguments from similarly trained opponents. Indeed, you often leave the best retorts unanswered, which isn't a good sign.

    However, I did track down your views on nature vs nurture:


    I can say that at present the balance of evidence suggests that it is more likely than not that, in the same environment, white and black Americans would develop the same phenotypic IQ.

     

    I simply don't understand (yes, I understand that you are extraordinarily intelligent - though only because of environment ;) - and I'm not) how you can make that statement. The evidence points to a significant genetic component to intelligence and that average IQ varies among the different races and ethnicities.

    Commentator res does a nice job of takin you to task:


    Given “same” I take it you are arguing for a 0% genetic contribution. If that is not so please clarify what you meant by that statement.

    I don’t see how you can believe that given the evidence I cited. If nothing else it is absolutely clear that IQ SNPs discovered so far differ in frequency between African and European populations. It is highly unlikely that allows for a genetic contribution of exactly 0.

    Thanks for engaging in a reasonable fashion. Hope you are around for follow up as more genetic data comes in. Would you care to place any bets on the outcome?

     

    Of course, the evidence may change. I'm fine with that. This is one case where confirmation bias isn't an issue; I'd love to be wrong. But the studies that you have cited just don't stand up to the studies that show a genetic component. Luckily, genetic research should give some evidence over the next decade or two, so we can leave our little spat alone and just wait for the data to arrive.

    Or it may be that Europeans are a little genetically inferior to Africans when it comes to IQ.

    This is unfathomable nonsense, stated somewhat contentiously and imprecisely. I’m getting the strong sense that you have a weak statistical background. I don’t mean that as an insult, it is extremely common among otherwise highly educated people. But it can lead to shockingly absurd misreadings of things. Most importantly, as every gambler knows, a solid grasp of statistical reality can tell you when to quit.

    Are you aware of the sheer volume of data and magnitude of the differences therein revealed between black and white IQ? We aren’t talking about one or two data points with wide enough discrepancies to raise doubt. There are well-established correlations between things like NEAP tests, SATs, ASVAB, etc and IQ, with collective sample sizes in the tens of billions between them, all in agreement, all showing almost exactly the same relationship. There’s probably no finding more replicated in the social sciences than the persistently 1SD lower black (US, proxy Africans) IQ from the white mean.

    The relationship is as clear as day.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Did you mean to respond to matt's comment 106 rather than Citizen of a Silly Country's comment 61?
    , @matt
    You haven't begun to understand what I mean. I don't in the slightest deny that people of European descent are phenotypically superior to people of African descent when it comes to IQ. (This isn't the first time I've been accused of denying this, in this thread. The only possible way anyone could read me as saying this would be through extreme bad faith and/or stupidity). What I said is that whatever genetic differences there may be could go in the opposite direction, and these genetic effects could be swamped by environmental effects that produced the observed phenotypes.

    This should be uncontroversial. It's certainly a logical possibility. It's also not unheard of. Because of dysgenic fertility, each generation is probably a little genetically inferior to the last when it comes to IQ, but the Flynn Effect means that environmental differences between generations swamp the genetic difference and produce a phenotypic difference in the opposite direction. The Dutch used to be a few inches shorter than white Americans, now they're a few inches taller. That probably means that they were genetically superior for height all along, but the environment was swamping their genetic advantage.

  214. res says:
    @res

    It’s highly unlikely all right, but not for that reason. It’s highly unlikely for the same reason that 50/50 is highly unlikely: it’s an exact guess.
     
    Yup. So let's make it less exact. Divide the possibilities into the following four bins:
    0-25%, 25-50%, 50-75%, and 75-100% (where the number is the percent genetic).

    What do you think are rough probabilities of each bin corresponding to reality regarding the US black-white difference in phenotypic IQ?

    P.S. It is fun to see you arguing against your earlier 0% genetic position.

    It is instructive to note which comments get no response. Matt complains about exact guesses being problematic so I propose a way around that issue. And get silence in response. I guess the exactness wasn’t really the problem.

    Regarding this quote from matt’s comment 155:

    it’s one of the reasons I quietly cut off our last exchange.

    Can anyone help me understand how that differs from running away with tail between legs because he has no effective response? I would really like to know. I suppose the lack of effective response is a good clue.

    Read More
    • Replies: @matt
    It could be I have no effective response. Or it could be that your bad faith and/or unintelligence is extremely tiresome and frustrating.

    Ok, one last stab. I don't even agree with the framing an "x% genetic contribution to the gap", because it doesn't distinguish between the case where there is a genetic contribution in the same direction as the phenotypic difference (i.e., in favor of whites), and a genetic contribution in the opposite direction of the phenotypic difference (i.e., in favor of blacks) that gets swamped by the environment. I prefer the following framework.

    Let Gw and Gb be one-place functions from IQ-relevant environments to phenotypic IQs. Gw is the "white IQ genotype", and Gb is the "black IQ genotype". Let Ew and Eb be the typical black and white IQ-relevant environments, respectively. What I believe is that

    Gw(Ew) - Gb(Ew) ≤ 0 (or only at little above 0)

    and

    Gw(Eb) - Gb(Eb) ≤ 0 (or only a little above o)

    is, given current evidence, more likely to be the case than

    Gw(Ew) - Gb(Ew) is substantially above 0

    and

    Gw(Eb) - Gb(Eb) is substantially above 0.

    This is based on the sense I get from my review of the evidence with which I am familiar. Assigning probabilities to various ranges would, I'm afraid, be arbitrary as far as I am concerned (I'm not saying it can't be done, just that I'm not the one to do it), so I don't see much point in doing it.

    You can have the last word. I know you want it.
  215. res says:
    @utu
    I have heard comments that 23andMe may overstate Ashkenazi ancestry

    Potentially there might be a serious issue because of political ramifications. The biases of company founders and owners should be looked at. For instance this is from Bennett Greenspan of Family Tree DNA:

    http://www.avotaynuonline.com/2015/06/genetic-census-of-the-jewish-people/
    The urgency of our work is magnified by the fact that the legitimacy of the Jewish people and its claim to our ancestral home is currently under constant pseudo-historical attack. The media, particularly on the web, carries regular features from enemies of Israel describing theories to the effect that Ashkenazi Jews have no connection to the land of Israel and are, in fact, European and Central Asian interlopers.

    FamilyTreeDNA but my colleagues at 23andMe and Ancestry as well — we have found unmistakable evidence that Ashkenazi Jews are closely related to one another, meaning that from a genetic standpoint, all Jews are indeed part of one genetically united people with ample Middle Eastern and Mediterranean forebears.
     
    One may ask what's more important: scientific integrity or politics expediency? FamilyTreeDNA, 23andMe and Ancestry ostensively are here to make money. $99 a pop. What standards do they adhere to? Who scrutinize them?

    P.S. Forget about the swine thing. It was just a metaphor I could not resit. Not every day I can quote Jesus.

    P.S. Forget about the swine thing. It was just a metaphor I could not resit. Not every day I can quote Jesus.

    Understood and thanks. I use that expression sometimes when I should not as well. I’ll try to tone down my crankiness too.

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  216. anonguy says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    To see why, read this comment of mine.
     
    So you're hanging your hat on the Flynn effect.

    But you'd have to have whites stop improving their IQ scores and blacks continue to do so - a lot. That seems highly unlikely.

    I’d say there’s probably a lot of things that make a genetic contribution of exactly zero unlikely, for the same reason that any precise estimate is unlikely as well (It’s highly unlikely that your guess of 50/50 is exactly right).
     
    You're like the guy who says that there's no such thing as the color yellow because there are different shades of yellow. No kidding that the 50-50 estimate is exactly right because, you know, it's an estimate.

    The question is does the estimate work. It's like modeling. If the model was reality, it's be called reality. The question is does the model help us get the job done better than anything else.

    It may be, for example, that Europeans are a little genetically superior to Africans when it comes to IQ. Or it may be that Europeans are a little genetically inferior to Africans when it comes to IQ.

     

    Where's the evidence for that. You demand exactness in other's arguments but seem fine with flights of fancy in your own.

    The preponderence of evidence points to genetics being responsible for some portion - 25% to 75% - of average IQ difference among various population groups (I'm sure that you'd have an issue of I used the inexact term "race"). Is it perfect? No. Is it conclusive? No. But it's the best working information that we have.

    You are demanding incontestable proof. In that, you are correct. We don't have it. Fine. But in the meantime, the world demands that decisions be made. That polices are enacted. Right now, the world bases those decisions on a belief - and, yes, for them it is a belief - that there are no genetic differences among population groups.

    If there was nothing at stake, we could wait for incontestable proof, but we can't.

    I’d recommend you guys take a step back from your worship of IQ.

    Like any unquestioned monomania, it is a weak spot.

    Plus, it is what you accuse your enemies of doing in your hypothesized white intra-racial conflict.

    That is, the goodwhites in their whitopias revile the low IQ whites in their opiotopias in flyover countries.

    Hey, I just made up that term for dysfunctional white america, opiotopia. Doesn’t quite roll off the tongue for english speakers but for a more musical/rhyming language it would be perfect.

    Anyhow, so what is the difference between the high IQ coastal elites reviling white rednecks because they think they are dumb and you guys reviling non-whites because you think they are dumb.

    I’m sorry, I’m confused.

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    • Replies: @res
    These are separate conversations:
    1. There are/not racial differences in IQ and those are/not at least partly genetic in origin.
    2. IQ is important/not important/the be all and end all of human traits.

    Until your comment we were talking only about 1 AFAICT. For the record, I think IQ is important but certainly not the be all and end all of human traits.

    As for why I talk about 1... I am beyond tired with people denying reality (phenotypic differences in average IQ between races, the genetic part is at least arguable, as we are doing in this comment thread) and the resulting policy craziness we suffer as a result of trying to close various resultant gaps, end disparate representation in fields requiring IQ, etc.

    I tend to think the deniers of reality are the monomaniacal ones, but I am biased ; )
  217. anonguy says:
    @Jack D
    A lot of current generation (what generation are we up to , Z?) young Jews, male and female, get tattoos. They are even popular in Israel. Tattoos are very fashionable now. When I was growing up, the only people I knew who had tattoos were grizzly old alkies. The only Jews I knew who had tattoos were people like my aunt who had Auschwitz #s on their arms.

    A lot of current generation (what generation are we up to , Z?) young Jews, male and female, get tattoos. They are even popular in Israel. Tattoos are very fashionable now. When I was growing up, the only people I knew who had tattoos were grizzly old alkies.

    I got a tattoo in 1976 right after getting out of USMC boot camp, long before tattoos came into style.

    I regretted it almost immediately and it was something considered insanely low class at the time and for about 15 years thereafter on a climb through middle class respectability – college, USN officer.

    It really was like that 80s movie, Officer and a Gentleman where the Dad tells the kid officers don’t have tattoos.

    I used to thank god I had at least gotten it on my upper arm and could usually hide it with a polo shirt.

    Funny thing, though, was that although the public in general deplored tattoos as a common ethic, every woman I was involved with during those years secretly thought it was quite sexy. I guess that bad boy thing.

    As usual, eventually the other guys sense this and start aping the behavior in a cargo-cult manner and tattoos become popular. Same thing, and right around the same time, early 90s, as Harley Davidsons became popular with the dentists/lawyers.

    So yeah, I definitely took pains to conceal my tattoo for many years until they came back into style. But every time I mentioned having it removed, my then girlfriend would always protest, “No, its you”.

    Now here is the funny part. I long ago gave up the idea of getting it removed, but 4 decades on it is largely a blurry patch.

    Recently, I was walking past a trendy Oregon tattoo parlor and I thought, well maybe I’ll ask these guys about getting it sharpened up a little bit. I’ve heard where they can do this sort of thing.

    So I popped in, there are a bunch of young Portlandia type guys working there. They start clustering around me looking at my tattoo and are utterly horrified at the idea of touching this up.

    It is vintage Americana, a genuine USMC tattoo from back in the day when it was done by drunks in skeezy tattoo parlors in red light districts. It would be like repainting original paint job on a 57 Chevy.

    Am I nuts?

    Then, one guy starts talking about this or that famous tattoo designer from back in the day and then runs over to the the wall where they have some of his stencils worshipfully framed.

    And points out my exact tattoo, just some eagle/flag/banner deal.

    So I’m like, ok, I guess I’m never getting rid of this thing. I told my wife that after I die my survivors should cut it off my arm and auction it on ebay.

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  218. @Broski
    Take up the White Man's burden -
    The savage wars of peace -
    Fill full the mouth of famine
    And bid the sickness cease;
    And when your goal is nearest
    The end for others sought,
    Watch Sloth and heathen Folly
    Bring all your hopes to nought.

    Take up the White Man's burden -
    And reap his old reward,
    The blame of those ye better,
    The hate of those ye guard -
    The cry of hosts ye humour
    (Ah slowly !) towards the light:-
    "Why brought ye us from bondage,
    "Our loved Egyptian night ?"

    The white man’s burden was the white man… Kipling knew it all too well thus the preemptive strike against the non-whites to camouflage it. And that expediency which was palliative treatment is haunting his heirs even to this day.

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  219. @gda
    Uncouth? Yes, no doubt. Travelling to India in 1600 wasn't for the faint of heart.

    Bloodthirsty? You've obviously mistaken the British for their Indian sepoys who comprised around 96% of the British East India Company's "army".

    Savages? You mean like throwing live wives on their dead husband's funeral pyre? Or performing "baby-dropping"? Or female infanticide? Honour killing?

    The British in India with EIC were the ones stealing the Company blind. No doubt unpleasant characters, most of them. Luckily the Raj eventually took over and all was well.

    Plenty of sea traffic between India and the east coast of Africa… Europeans were just a tad bit late to the party for which they made up plenty later with excessive zeal…

    Indians blood lust among themselves is no different from European against European, however, as outsiders with peculiar ideas about faith and rights, their savagery was indeed unique…

    There were plenty of abomination in the British society that would put India’s own to shame… it’s all relative!

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  220. @Autochthon
    #bafflingnonsequitur

    It’ll become all too clear when sobriety sets in…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    You are either stupid, willfully obtuse, antagonistic (but without any substantive arguments), or some combination of these.

    You are apparently the Hindoo version of Corvinus (the resident Negro with these qualities) or Tiny Duck (whom the consenus seems to have deemed the homosexual version, or, perhaps, a parody).

  221. @AM

    New York City has no public toilets, so the growing number of homeless too don’t take their poo to the loo…
     
    Life has to be difficult to navigate for you.

    It has been but we manage somehow… No thanks to you!

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  222. utu says:
    @Jack D
    There is some random noise in the 23 and me results so a couple of percent one way or the other doesn't mean anything. But it would not be unusual for a non-Jewish Pole to have a few % Ashkenazi genes so if her mother was 98% Jewish and her father was 4% Jewish she could come back as 52% Jewish. I don't understand why you care. The clear implication is that Ms. W is 1/2 Jewish and 1/2 Polish - the rest is meaningless. If you are trying to harvest meaning from the last few % points of 23 and me results you are on a futile quest.

    I don’t understand why you care.

    This is about the definitions and methods used by commercial outfits like 23andme that want to make a buck and clients happy first. Scientific integrity comes second.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    They don't claim scientific levels of perfection - they say their results are for "entertainment". I don't know what more you want them to say.

    I know someone who did 23 and me and their results come back 98% (or something like that - a few % means nothing) Ashkenazi and 2% Pacific Islander. This person is well aware of his heritage and there were no Pacific Islanders in the shtetl. Their tech is just not that advanced or maybe human DNA is not 100% clear cut (only 98% clear cut).
  223. @yaqub the mad scientist
    I believe there's a term for your problem in making a proper comparison here- orders of magnitude.

    Really, Jacob? The richest country in the world and that in its leading metropolis… You are right, it’s a question of scale!

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  224. @jim jones
    The public toilets in London used to be free but now they are pay-to-go, I prefer to find a nearby pub

    Big Apple businesses/pubs prefer paying customers only… tourists maybe, homeless no-no… hell no!

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  225. @AM

    Don’t much about the rest of your harangue but on one thing you are absolutely correct: The British were savages, bloodthirsty and uncouth ignorant savages…
     
    Yeah, outlawing widow burning, insisting on bathrooms, imparting a universal language to a place without one.

    Sad. I have no idea how India coped.

    India coped plenty without the British. The language is universal in nature which benefits both sides. But as to ‘SATI’, it was limited to honorable women of the court… it was self-immolation, a concept not easily fathomed in an abortive culture.

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  226. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Autochthon
    It's almost as if Indians' courage and independence rivals their hygeine. Who says Asians are collectivist, meek, and insular?

    Indeed. Much like Germans, wouldn’t you say?

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  227. 3g4me says:
    @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    Don't much about the rest of your harangue but on one thing you are absolutely correct: The British were savages, bloodthirsty and uncouth ignorant savages...

    @126 Pachyderm Pachyderma : “The British were savages, bloodthirsty and uncouth ignorant savages…”

    Always amusing when Han Chinese and dot-Indians come to a functional White country for education or a job unavailable to them in their home society and country, settle down in a White-style home and frequently appropriate a White wife to improve their genetic progeny’s vitally important complexion, and then frequent an HBD -centric American blog to proclaim their genetic and cultural superiority and bitch about Americans specifically or Europeans in general. Immigrates immigriping somehow doesn’t do them justice.

    I propose more active measures. Time will tell which it will be, but whatever occurs will be to the immigrates’ shock and eternal recrimination (a la numinous et al re the English). Ask me if I care. Ask most Americans if they greatly care. And then go home – while that option remains to you.

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    • Replies: @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    This is polemics about the British and India but then why are your panties in a twist... it is not as if the Americans (white Christians) have not criticized their 'mother' country. I have yet to be critical of America and all its denizens which is my right under the free speech doctrine and if you want certain lot of citizens to leave 'your' country then by all means, change the law but don't just sit and bark like a dog, go back to your country. It's rather uncivilized of you, DOG!

    P.S. Perhaps, you ought to consider the Bill Kristol option...

    , @res

    Immigrates immigriping somehow doesn’t do them justice.

     

    Immigrate immigrants imminsely immigriping immicessantly?
    , @Anonymous
    It's amusing when self-loathing Ellis Islanders pretend to be Daughters of the American Revolution. Go home to Israel or something so you don't have to play make believe.
    , @Anonymous
    It's amusing when self-loathing Ellis Islanders pretend to be Mayflower descendants. You should go home so you don't have to play make believe.
  228. 3g4me says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    With regard to the income data, I’ve already said that’s one of the more compelling pieces of evidence in the hereditarian arsenal, and I’ve already pointed to Elsie Moore’s 1986 study as (weakly) suggesting a hypothesis that should be further tested: because of cultural practices, even rich and middle class black parents don’t provide their children with a very cognitively enriching environment, compared to white parents even of lower socioeconomic status.
     
    So the environment of wealthy blacks is worse than the environment of poor whites?

    I've seen how upper middle class blacks live. It ain't deep West Virginia.

    Again, you make great arguments - until we leave the doors of the debate club, then they seem a tad shaky.

    Occam's Razor is on our side. You need to show us why we're wrong - and, yes, we could be.

    The United States have poured trillions of dollars in helping blacks. We have affirmative action. We have artificially pushing millions of blacks into higher income brackets. (Yes, I realize that this might back up you idea that they haven't changed their underlying culture.) Etc. Etc.

    As I mentioned in another comment, let's assume that you're right: It's the environment. Well, if neither whites nor blacks can change this environment that's causing such poor black academic performance relative to whites and NE Asians, we're still back where we'd be if the cause was genetic.

    Either the difference is caused by genetics, in which case we need to change our policies or the differences are caused by an incurable black culture, in which case we need to change our policies.

    Whites in the U.S. have been trying for 60 years to change black culture and outside of a slight bump in the beginning, it has failed. Failed. So unless you have some new plan that you're keeping to yourself for some cruel reason, it's time call it quits.

    @162 Citizen of a Silly Country contra matt: “You need to show us why we’re wrong – and, yes, we could be.”

    And somehow you’re both ignoring those already extant “studies” which pretty conclusively demonstrate that, enriched cultural environment notwithstanding, inherited genetic predispositions will out. For only one such example, consider ye hoary olde Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study.

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  229. @Jack D
    A lot of current generation (what generation are we up to , Z?) young Jews, male and female, get tattoos. They are even popular in Israel. Tattoos are very fashionable now. When I was growing up, the only people I knew who had tattoos were grizzly old alkies. The only Jews I knew who had tattoos were people like my aunt who had Auschwitz #s on their arms.

    If younger Jews are getting tattoos is it a case of the elder subversion peddlers corrupting their own youth???

    Kind of like the crack dealer who ends up shocked that his sister, and perhaps even his mom end up crack whores???

    Tattoos Rule in Israel – Despite Jewish Law and Holocaust Taboo

    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/culture/leisure/.premium-1.574672

    When I was growing up, the only people I knew who had tattoos were grizzly old alkies.

    I agree, I am of the age where I can relate to what I believe is an old Jeff Foxworthy, Tim Allen or perhaps Larry the Cable Guy joke.

    “I am so old that back in my day not even the porn stars had tattoos”

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  230. @Altai
    Then you have the issue of the references they used. Remember they only have about 37, is only having a few East Asian references making it 'assign' haplotypes across them in a way it's less inclined to in the European references? And then you have the problem that many of the original AIMs were found in European references with many later found to be fixed or near fixation in East Asian populations who have higher overall runs of homozygosity, their ancestors went through more population bottlenecks and less genetic introgression from outside populations and are thus more similar to each other anyway. Is 23andMe's method optimised towards European ancestry and not as able to distinguish East Asian ancestry?

    Remember they keep their method a total secret so it's unclear exactly what they're doing.

    I can’t figure out what your run-on sentences mean. But, the other major problem is that they’re pretending that small percentages are legitimate rather than false positives.

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  231. res says:
    @TelfoedJohn

    if her mother was 98% Jewish and her father was 4% Jewish she could come back as 52% Jewish
     
    I believe this is shown at the bottom of Anne's page that Steve linked to: https://you.23andme.com/published/reports/6999ce120ded4584/

    If you click on Ashkenazi Jewish underneath the chromosome list, you will see most of the X chromosomes (mothers side) light up, but also a few Y chromosomes meaning that the fathers side has a few AshJ ancestors. Clicking on Eastern European gives you roughly the opposite.

    Is this how it works? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Interesting. You’re wrong about the Y chromosome (as a woman Anne does not have one of those). But autosomal chromosomes 11 and 15 definitely show what you are talking about. And those are rather large fragments. IMHO the graphic does confirm Jack D’s assessment is on target.

    To explain a bit, the X and Y chromosomes are special and referred to as the sex chromosomes–see https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/chromosome/X
    The 22 autosomal chromosome pairs are generally referred to by number (roughly ordered largest to smallest). If I read this link correctly: https://customercare.23andme.com/hc/en-us/articles/212193688-Phasing-and-Inheritance
    23andMe only determines the phasing (which parent a given SNP comes from) if parental data is available. Does anyone know if the chromosome graphic in TelfoedJohn’s link uses actual phasing data (it seems a safe bet Anne’s parents have been run through 23andMe) or do they use another approach to assign the fragments?

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    • Replies: @TelfoedJohn
    Ok thanks for the info, my knowledge is limited in this field. From Anne's bio, it's clear that the first row in the chromosome pairs are from her mother.

    My results are on 23andme too, and show two rows for chromosomes. It's not clear whether the first row is also from my mother, since my parents (who are not on 23andme) came from the same rough geographic area.
  232. res says:
    @Negrolphin Pool

    Or it may be that Europeans are a little genetically inferior to Africans when it comes to IQ.
     
    This is unfathomable nonsense, stated somewhat contentiously and imprecisely. I'm getting the strong sense that you have a weak statistical background. I don't mean that as an insult, it is extremely common among otherwise highly educated people. But it can lead to shockingly absurd misreadings of things. Most importantly, as every gambler knows, a solid grasp of statistical reality can tell you when to quit.

    Are you aware of the sheer volume of data and magnitude of the differences therein revealed between black and white IQ? We aren't talking about one or two data points with wide enough discrepancies to raise doubt. There are well-established correlations between things like NEAP tests, SATs, ASVAB, etc and IQ, with collective sample sizes in the tens of billions between them, all in agreement, all showing almost exactly the same relationship. There's probably no finding more replicated in the social sciences than the persistently 1SD lower black (US, proxy Africans) IQ from the white mean.

    The relationship is as clear as day.

    Did you mean to respond to matt’s comment 106 rather than Citizen of a Silly Country’s comment 61?

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  233. @3g4me
    @126 Pachyderm Pachyderma : "The British were savages, bloodthirsty and uncouth ignorant savages…"

    Always amusing when Han Chinese and dot-Indians come to a functional White country for education or a job unavailable to them in their home society and country, settle down in a White-style home and frequently appropriate a White wife to improve their genetic progeny's vitally important complexion, and then frequent an HBD -centric American blog to proclaim their genetic and cultural superiority and bitch about Americans specifically or Europeans in general. Immigrates immigriping somehow doesn't do them justice.

    I propose more active measures. Time will tell which it will be, but whatever occurs will be to the immigrates' shock and eternal recrimination (a la numinous et al re the English). Ask me if I care. Ask most Americans if they greatly care. And then go home - while that option remains to you.

    This is polemics about the British and India but then why are your panties in a twist… it is not as if the Americans (white Christians) have not criticized their ‘mother’ country. I have yet to be critical of America and all its denizens which is my right under the free speech doctrine and if you want certain lot of citizens to leave ‘your’ country then by all means, change the law but don’t just sit and bark like a dog, go back to your country. It’s rather uncivilized of you, DOG!

    P.S. Perhaps, you ought to consider the Bill Kristol option…

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  234. res says:
    @anonguy
    I'd recommend you guys take a step back from your worship of IQ.

    Like any unquestioned monomania, it is a weak spot.

    Plus, it is what you accuse your enemies of doing in your hypothesized white intra-racial conflict.

    That is, the goodwhites in their whitopias revile the low IQ whites in their opiotopias in flyover countries.

    Hey, I just made up that term for dysfunctional white america, opiotopia. Doesn't quite roll off the tongue for english speakers but for a more musical/rhyming language it would be perfect.

    Anyhow, so what is the difference between the high IQ coastal elites reviling white rednecks because they think they are dumb and you guys reviling non-whites because you think they are dumb.

    I'm sorry, I'm confused.

    These are separate conversations:
    1. There are/not racial differences in IQ and those are/not at least partly genetic in origin.
    2. IQ is important/not important/the be all and end all of human traits.

    Until your comment we were talking only about 1 AFAICT. For the record, I think IQ is important but certainly not the be all and end all of human traits.

    As for why I talk about 1… I am beyond tired with people denying reality (phenotypic differences in average IQ between races, the genetic part is at least arguable, as we are doing in this comment thread) and the resulting policy craziness we suffer as a result of trying to close various resultant gaps, end disparate representation in fields requiring IQ, etc.

    I tend to think the deniers of reality are the monomaniacal ones, but I am biased ; )

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    • Replies: @anonguy

    As for why I talk about 1… I am beyond tired with people denying reality (phenotypic differences in average IQ between races, the genetic part is at least arguable, as we are doing in this comment thread) and the resulting policy craziness we suffer as a result of trying to close various resultant gaps, end disparate representation in fields requiring IQ, etc.
     
    There are countless ways in which everyone denies reality. Simply by accepting one denies all the other possibilities.

    Why is correcting this particular reality mismatch, if there even is such a thing, so important to you?

    Just another grain of sand on some beach .....
  235. res says:
    @3g4me
    @126 Pachyderm Pachyderma : "The British were savages, bloodthirsty and uncouth ignorant savages…"

    Always amusing when Han Chinese and dot-Indians come to a functional White country for education or a job unavailable to them in their home society and country, settle down in a White-style home and frequently appropriate a White wife to improve their genetic progeny's vitally important complexion, and then frequent an HBD -centric American blog to proclaim their genetic and cultural superiority and bitch about Americans specifically or Europeans in general. Immigrates immigriping somehow doesn't do them justice.

    I propose more active measures. Time will tell which it will be, but whatever occurs will be to the immigrates' shock and eternal recrimination (a la numinous et al re the English). Ask me if I care. Ask most Americans if they greatly care. And then go home - while that option remains to you.

    Immigrates immigriping somehow doesn’t do them justice.

    Immigrate immigrants imminsely immigriping immicessantly?

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  236. matt says:
    @res
    It is instructive to note which comments get no response. Matt complains about exact guesses being problematic so I propose a way around that issue. And get silence in response. I guess the exactness wasn't really the problem.

    Regarding this quote from matt's comment 155:

    it’s one of the reasons I quietly cut off our last exchange.
     
    Can anyone help me understand how that differs from running away with tail between legs because he has no effective response? I would really like to know. I suppose the lack of effective response is a good clue.

    It could be I have no effective response. Or it could be that your bad faith and/or unintelligence is extremely tiresome and frustrating.

    Ok, one last stab. I don’t even agree with the framing an “x% genetic contribution to the gap”, because it doesn’t distinguish between the case where there is a genetic contribution in the same direction as the phenotypic difference (i.e., in favor of whites), and a genetic contribution in the opposite direction of the phenotypic difference (i.e., in favor of blacks) that gets swamped by the environment. I prefer the following framework.

    Let Gw and Gb be one-place functions from IQ-relevant environments to phenotypic IQs. Gw is the “white IQ genotype”, and Gb is the “black IQ genotype”. Let Ew and Eb be the typical black and white IQ-relevant environments, respectively. What I believe is that

    Gw(Ew) – Gb(Ew) ≤ 0 (or only at little above 0)

    and

    Gw(Eb) – Gb(Eb) ≤ 0 (or only a little above o)

    is, given current evidence, more likely to be the case than

    Gw(Ew) – Gb(Ew) is substantially above 0

    and

    Gw(Eb) – Gb(Eb) is substantially above 0.

    This is based on the sense I get from my review of the evidence with which I am familiar. Assigning probabilities to various ranges would, I’m afraid, be arbitrary as far as I am concerned (I’m not saying it can’t be done, just that I’m not the one to do it), so I don’t see much point in doing it.

    You can have the last word. I know you want it.

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    • Replies: @res

    Or it could be that your bad faith and/or unintelligence is extremely tiresome and frustrating.
     
    It would be helpful if you gave specific examples of things I have said which you think indicate my bad faith and/or unintelligence (pro tip, I interpret unsubstantiated ad hominem attacks as my opponent acknowledging that I have won and they have no substantive response). Another tip, I have many flaws, but I have never been accused of unintelligence by anyone who knows me (doing stupid things on occasion is different ; ) . Hearing comments like that online from people is generally a pretty good tell regarding the quality of their faith and/or intelligence.

    As for wanting the last word, it seems fair to make a substantive response to a substantive post on your part (which introduced a new idea). If you want to complain about me wanting the last word, it makes more sense to do so after making something more like a summary post of points already made. So on to the substantive part of this response.

    I don’t even agree with the framing an “x% genetic contribution to the gap”, because it doesn’t distinguish between the case where there is a genetic contribution in the same direction as the phenotypic difference (i.e., in favor of whites), and a genetic contribution in the opposite direction of the phenotypic difference (i.e., in favor of blacks) that gets swamped by the environment.
     
    That is an interesting point. The most logical way I see of referring to that would be as percent variance explained where one number would be greater than 100%, the other would be negative, and they sum to 100%. I don't think that invalidates my framing. And given how common the % genetic contribution (aka heritability) framing is I think you are primarily just using this hypothetical to evade the issue I posed. Do you have any reason to think the genetic and environmental contributions to IQ for whites and blacks differ in direction? I have never seen anyone propose that as being likely. Nonfactual hypotheticals are not a good reason to reject my framing.

    Your mastery of evasive debating techniques is fascinating. That is the kind of thing I would call arguing in bad faith. Are you sure you are not projecting when asserting my bad faith? Note that this is an example of providing a specific example--your evasive debating techniques--to support my point (as I have requested you do).

    Let Gw and Gb be one-place functions from IQ-relevant environments to phenotypic IQs. Gw is the “white IQ genotype”, and Gb is the “black IQ genotype”. Let Ew and Eb be the typical black and white IQ-relevant environments, respectively. What I believe is that

    Gw(Ew) – Gb(Ew) ≤ 0 (or only at little above 0)

    and

    Gw(Eb) – Gb(Eb) ≤ 0 (or only a little above o)

    is, given current evidence, more likely to be the case than

    Gw(Ew) – Gb(Ew) is substantially above 0

    and

    Gw(Eb) – Gb(Eb) is substantially above 0.
     
    OK, I can be flexible and work with your framing (that is the kind of thing people arguing in good faith agree to do, not insist on a reframe, right?).

    First, I am fascinated that in your first two equations you argue for <= rather than ~= (approximately equal). So you actually think with equal environments it is more likely that blacks are more intelligent? Based on what evidence? You did say this is evidence based, right?

    It is interesting that you complicate things with a fancy "one place function" idea. How are you defining the comparison operators in your notation? Is there some notion of in all cases (remember, E is a domain, there is no single Ew or Eb; and the Gs defines a range over that domain so you are implicitly doing a multivalue comparison), or do you mean on average greater or less than, or is there some other meaning? Is there any uncertainty in your G functions (e.g. can they result in different values of IQ for a given E)? How do you express that? Are you inadvertently making an argument about ALL blacks being equal to or smarter than all whites for a given environment? Now that would be revolutionary indeed. Without elaboration I can only conclude your notation is hopelessly imprecise.

    I love the way you make a strong <= 0 assertion and then immediately back away from it with a parenthetical "or only a little above o". Definitely a nice touch.

    But all in all, your statements convey little meaning unless you define "or only a little above o" and "substantially above 0". Please do so.

    Imprecision like this is the reason for my probability bins framing in comment 171. I still maintain that is a good way to think about this. How about we make it even simpler? Can you define any points in the range from 0 to 100% genetic that you think are meaningful? Say a number you think is equally likely or not? Or a number that you think is above the maximum possible in reality (if it is only a little above 0 you should be able to pick a maximum!)?
    , @Negrolphin Pool

    Let Ew and Eb be the typical black and white IQ-relevant environments
     
    The problem is that this has to read "Let Ew and Eb be the optimized black and white IQ-relevant environments". Otherwise, the whole formulation is trivially proven false.

    This leads to the empirical problem that, aside from gross negative environmental influences, like severe, prolongued malnutrition, there is no evidence of any positive, lasting effect that environmental variables have on adult IQ. So how exactly are we supposed to envision what the optimized IQ-related environments might look like, since there is not just no conclusive evidence of what those factors might be but no evidence at all? This complete lack of evidence presents a serious weakness, since the quote goes on:

    given current evidence, more likely to be the case than
     
    It is also worth pointing out that this whole line of argument presupposes that U.S. blacks are, by definition, subject to a woefully suboptimal IQ-related environment. But if the U.S.-based IQ-related environment is so hostile to blacks, it must be orders of magnitude more suboptimal in Sub Saharan Africa, where blacks currently score dismally low on IQ tests.

    This supposes that blacks evolved, over hundreds of millenia, in an environment that was, as far as the current evidence goes, maximally suboptimal for the flourishing of their intelligence, and that they are required to move closer to E(w), the optimal white environment, to get closer to the realization of their true genetic potential in IQ. The observed white environment must be closer to its genetic optimum than is the case for blacks, otherwise, white IQ wouldn't so far exceed that of blacks in that environment, per the equation.

    This suggests that Ew and Eb are convergent and specifically convergent on the environment observed in the United States.

    So, from this framework, we learn some surprising conclusions. First, intelligence in blacks is radically maladaptive. This is an ipso facto conclusion of the black environment being maximally suboptimal for the manifestation of black intelligence. But is that really likely? If this were true, why are blacks capable of any cognitive tasks at all? With an environment so hostile to intelligence, why haven't they devolved into lower simians rather than higher?

    Second, the optimal black IQ environment appears to rapidly converge on the optimal white IQ environment, as seen in the dramatically higher performance of blacks in the US, and these environments could even merge as they approach the optimum for both races (equivalent optimal environments should be the egalitarian party line here). But why does the suboptimal African environment seem to have little to no consequences for white cognition, and the adoption of black orphans into the most privileged white environments seems to likewise have little to no positive effect?
  237. matt says:
    @Negrolphin Pool

    Or it may be that Europeans are a little genetically inferior to Africans when it comes to IQ.
     
    This is unfathomable nonsense, stated somewhat contentiously and imprecisely. I'm getting the strong sense that you have a weak statistical background. I don't mean that as an insult, it is extremely common among otherwise highly educated people. But it can lead to shockingly absurd misreadings of things. Most importantly, as every gambler knows, a solid grasp of statistical reality can tell you when to quit.

    Are you aware of the sheer volume of data and magnitude of the differences therein revealed between black and white IQ? We aren't talking about one or two data points with wide enough discrepancies to raise doubt. There are well-established correlations between things like NEAP tests, SATs, ASVAB, etc and IQ, with collective sample sizes in the tens of billions between them, all in agreement, all showing almost exactly the same relationship. There's probably no finding more replicated in the social sciences than the persistently 1SD lower black (US, proxy Africans) IQ from the white mean.

    The relationship is as clear as day.

    You haven’t begun to understand what I mean. I don’t in the slightest deny that people of European descent are phenotypically superior to people of African descent when it comes to IQ. (This isn’t the first time I’ve been accused of denying this, in this thread. The only possible way anyone could read me as saying this would be through extreme bad faith and/or stupidity). What I said is that whatever genetic differences there may be could go in the opposite direction, and these genetic effects could be swamped by environmental effects that produced the observed phenotypes.

    This should be uncontroversial. It’s certainly a logical possibility. It’s also not unheard of. Because of dysgenic fertility, each generation is probably a little genetically inferior to the last when it comes to IQ, but the Flynn Effect means that environmental differences between generations swamp the genetic difference and produce a phenotypic difference in the opposite direction. The Dutch used to be a few inches shorter than white Americans, now they’re a few inches taller. That probably means that they were genetically superior for height all along, but the environment was swamping their genetic advantage.

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    • Replies: @res

    This isn’t the first time I’ve been accused of denying this, in this thread.
     
    Where was the first? In comment 135 I asked you about this. If you can't tell asking from accusing then I have to ask: who is acting in bad faith and/or with stupidity?

    could...could
     
    And the sun might not rise tomorrow. That sure tells us a lot about reality. Possible is rather different from uncontroversial. Unless, of course, you meant that the possibility existing is uncontroversial. Which is true (the sun might not rise tomorrow!), but a great example of you obfuscating with word games.

    Regarding your Flynn Effect comparison. If that analogy is actually applicable in this case, how is it that 50 years of environment changing efforts to close the test score gap have been so unsuccessful? The Dutch caught up in height very quickly once their diets improved.
    , @Negrolphin Pool
    I know what you meant. Was just taking issue with the wording. I was tired when I wrote that and, actually, the statement is precise enough - even if the term "genetically inferior" is so much gasoline on a forest fire - if that's what you actually want to contend.


    The problem is that the evidence against it, which has been exhaustively measured in both groups to an almost unprecedented extent for any human trait, is so utterly overwhelming that it can't be a serious position. This is what I was getting at with not having a feel for statistical phenomena. Would you suggest that brown bears may be genetically inferior to polar bears in pigmentation, or that wolves are genetically inferior in cranial capacity to beagles? Because these absurd analogies lend proportionality to how overwhelming the evidence of both a real difference existing in IQ between Africans and Europeans, the causal relationship between race and IQ and the magnitude of the differences are.

    What I said is that whatever genetic differences there may be could go in the opposite direction, and these genetic effects could be swamped by environmental effects that produced the observed phenotypes. This should be uncontroversial. It’s certainly a logical possibility.
     
    Alpha Centuri could be made out of cotton candy. I suppose that's a logical possibility. But it one that's made so vanishingly unlikely by any fair reading of the current state of knowledge that we can safely discard it until we have compelling reason to believe it may have some shred of merit.

    but the Flynn Effect means that environmental differences between generations swamp the genetic difference and produce a phenotypic difference in the opposite direction.
     
    Is there any evidence that the Flynn Effect is resulting in a closing gap between whites and blacks? On the contrary, there seems to be ample evidence that the gap is widening.

    Despite the small overall improvement of black SAT scores over the past 17 years, the gap between black and white scores has actually increased. In 1988 the average combined score for whites of 1036 was 189 points higher than the average score for blacks. In 2005 the gap between the average white score and the average black score had grown to 204 points.
     

    The Dutch used to be a few inches shorter than white Americans, now they’re a few inches taller.
     
    Could you cite a source please? It's easy to imagine a scenario where economic circumstances in one Northwestern European country were significantly harsher than in another country populated by Northwestern Europeans. Then, the latter country was swamped by squat Amerindians while the former became a model of a how capitalism can blend with social welfare principles to create wide prosperity - all this leading to differences in average height.

    On the contrary, it is difficult indeed to imagine how U.S. blacks, who's performance gap with whites is actually increasing in many realms, could collectively be undergoing a suppression of their "genetic IQ" so crushingly thorough that, depsite living in a nearly identical IQ-genic substrate to their white counterparts, regularly and uniformly perform at 1+ standard deviation less across virtually every measure of cognitive tasks ever devised. This suppression of their natural ability is so complete that there is not a single example of an environment anywhere in the country where this natural ability has been permitted to even minimally flourish - not in the richest black neighborhoods, the schools where the black intelligentsia send their children, no where is the jackboot of phenotypic intelligence suppression lifted from the black neck.

    Maybe cotton candy has something to do with it. But I'll wait for the evidence.
  238. @res
    Interesting. You're wrong about the Y chromosome (as a woman Anne does not have one of those). But autosomal chromosomes 11 and 15 definitely show what you are talking about. And those are rather large fragments. IMHO the graphic does confirm Jack D's assessment is on target.

    To explain a bit, the X and Y chromosomes are special and referred to as the sex chromosomes--see https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/chromosome/X
    The 22 autosomal chromosome pairs are generally referred to by number (roughly ordered largest to smallest). If I read this link correctly: https://customercare.23andme.com/hc/en-us/articles/212193688-Phasing-and-Inheritance
    23andMe only determines the phasing (which parent a given SNP comes from) if parental data is available. Does anyone know if the chromosome graphic in TelfoedJohn's link uses actual phasing data (it seems a safe bet Anne's parents have been run through 23andMe) or do they use another approach to assign the fragments?

    Ok thanks for the info, my knowledge is limited in this field. From Anne’s bio, it’s clear that the first row in the chromosome pairs are from her mother.

    My results are on 23andme too, and show two rows for chromosomes. It’s not clear whether the first row is also from my mother, since my parents (who are not on 23andme) came from the same rough geographic area.

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    • Replies: @res

    From Anne’s bio, it’s clear that the first row in the chromosome pairs are from her mother.
     
    Agreed. I am curious about whether 23andMe was able to figure this out (and if parental data was required) or they fudged the graphic since the reality is known.

    My results are on 23andme too, and show two rows for chromosomes. It’s not clear whether the first row is also from my mother, since my parents (who are not on 23andme) came from the same rough geographic area.

     

    Too bad we can't get a better idea from your results (thanks for making that clear though!). If anyone here has results of their own from 23andMe that would make this clear (parents of very different background who aren't also in 23andMe's database) or has another way of knowing how the chromosome pairs are distinguished I would really like to learn more.
  239. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @AM

    Yes, who has not seen that Mesolithic rock pile called the “Taj Mahal”? These people clearly never advanced beyond the stage of crude stone huts.
     
    Yeah, it's a nice mausoleum. When the British got there they outlawed widow burning, which still happens occasionally even today, and there is a significant lack of girls in the population because they're too expensive. They're selectively killed through abortion.

    Some girl who was exiled from her family (so homeless) for getting pregnant out of wedlock gave birth to her baby on the street, alone, at 5am because the local health clinic wouldn't let her in with a guardian. Really. That was sometime last week.

    I'm okay talking about comparative architecture - apples to apples. But comparing architecture to cultural practices is just silliness.

    Mesolithic = Middle Stone Age = an archaeological, even architectural category

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  240. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Altai
    I'm afraid not, maybe the Jewish guy, maybe I think he might be straight also, but the others are definitely heterosexual I think. Welcome to the world of New York media hipsters!

    Granted these guys are so unemployable that they only made it as far as Buzzfeed, so maybe they are a very poor impression.

    This is what Buzzfeed-tier gay men look like.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeCUZGRmMt0

    I’m afraid not, maybe the Jewish guy, maybe I think he might be straight also, but the others are definitely heterosexual I think. Welcome to the world of New York media hipsters!

    More like Dipsters.

    They are so boyish and girlish. Like children.
    Bunch of Kidsters.

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  241. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Altai
    I'm afraid not, maybe the Jewish guy, maybe I think he might be straight also, but the others are definitely heterosexual I think. Welcome to the world of New York media hipsters!

    Granted these guys are so unemployable that they only made it as far as Buzzfeed, so maybe they are a very poor impression.

    This is what Buzzfeed-tier gay men look like.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeCUZGRmMt0

    Ewwwww. That is so tootish.

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  242. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Autochthon
    Do people really believe what you write? The Franks are Germanic; the Gauls these Franks (and the Romans before them...) displaced were Celts. Who argues French are not primarily Germanic and Celtic, and how in light if the incontrovertibe facts? Is the idea that because a Romance language, rather than a Germanic language, continued as the vernacular the Franks are not truly Germanic? I don't know, I suppose the vanquished Romans did contribute a significant genetic substrate to the entire affair in a way that didn't occur in Germany – but the same could be said of the (therefore not Germanic?) peoples of Britain, who were also ruled by Rome once upon a time before the Angles came....

    In what way precisely do you believe you differ from Alden above?

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I don't know that I do (I'd have to know more about his position to meaningfully explore it); I only was remarking that the position below (not Alden's) seems zany:

    The Nordic Protestant wing of White Nationalism will never accept that the Latin language non reformation French are the same as their much admired Germans.
     
  243. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Thea
    So the categories are arbitrary?

    Seems like a useless test to me, then.

    The test isn’t useless, since it can identify Ashkenazi ancestry (and other ancestries). Whether or not you think the categories are arbitrary depends on how you feel about categorizing particular ancestries.

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  244. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Autochthon
    Do people really believe what you write? The Franks are Germanic; the Gauls these Franks (and the Romans before them...) displaced were Celts. Who argues French are not primarily Germanic and Celtic, and how in light if the incontrovertibe facts? Is the idea that because a Romance language, rather than a Germanic language, continued as the vernacular the Franks are not truly Germanic? I don't know, I suppose the vanquished Romans did contribute a significant genetic substrate to the entire affair in a way that didn't occur in Germany – but the same could be said of the (therefore not Germanic?) peoples of Britain, who were also ruled by Rome once upon a time before the Angles came....

    The French are mainly a mix of Gallic and Mediterranean, with the southern half of French more Mediterranean and the northern half more Gallic. The Germanic part is more of a minor component. The Franks were invaders who established themselves as a ruling class over the more numerous Gallic and Mediterranean peasantry and townsfolk.

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  245. res says:
    @matt
    It could be I have no effective response. Or it could be that your bad faith and/or unintelligence is extremely tiresome and frustrating.

    Ok, one last stab. I don't even agree with the framing an "x% genetic contribution to the gap", because it doesn't distinguish between the case where there is a genetic contribution in the same direction as the phenotypic difference (i.e., in favor of whites), and a genetic contribution in the opposite direction of the phenotypic difference (i.e., in favor of blacks) that gets swamped by the environment. I prefer the following framework.

    Let Gw and Gb be one-place functions from IQ-relevant environments to phenotypic IQs. Gw is the "white IQ genotype", and Gb is the "black IQ genotype". Let Ew and Eb be the typical black and white IQ-relevant environments, respectively. What I believe is that

    Gw(Ew) - Gb(Ew) ≤ 0 (or only at little above 0)

    and

    Gw(Eb) - Gb(Eb) ≤ 0 (or only a little above o)

    is, given current evidence, more likely to be the case than

    Gw(Ew) - Gb(Ew) is substantially above 0

    and

    Gw(Eb) - Gb(Eb) is substantially above 0.

    This is based on the sense I get from my review of the evidence with which I am familiar. Assigning probabilities to various ranges would, I'm afraid, be arbitrary as far as I am concerned (I'm not saying it can't be done, just that I'm not the one to do it), so I don't see much point in doing it.

    You can have the last word. I know you want it.

    Or it could be that your bad faith and/or unintelligence is extremely tiresome and frustrating.

    It would be helpful if you gave specific examples of things I have said which you think indicate my bad faith and/or unintelligence (pro tip, I interpret unsubstantiated ad hominem attacks as my opponent acknowledging that I have won and they have no substantive response). Another tip, I have many flaws, but I have never been accused of unintelligence by anyone who knows me (doing stupid things on occasion is different ; ) . Hearing comments like that online from people is generally a pretty good tell regarding the quality of their faith and/or intelligence.

    As for wanting the last word, it seems fair to make a substantive response to a substantive post on your part (which introduced a new idea). If you want to complain about me wanting the last word, it makes more sense to do so after making something more like a summary post of points already made. So on to the substantive part of this response.

    I don’t even agree with the framing an “x% genetic contribution to the gap”, because it doesn’t distinguish between the case where there is a genetic contribution in the same direction as the phenotypic difference (i.e., in favor of whites), and a genetic contribution in the opposite direction of the phenotypic difference (i.e., in favor of blacks) that gets swamped by the environment.

    That is an interesting point. The most logical way I see of referring to that would be as percent variance explained where one number would be greater than 100%, the other would be negative, and they sum to 100%. I don’t think that invalidates my framing. And given how common the % genetic contribution (aka heritability) framing is I think you are primarily just using this hypothetical to evade the issue I posed. Do you have any reason to think the genetic and environmental contributions to IQ for whites and blacks differ in direction? I have never seen anyone propose that as being likely. Nonfactual hypotheticals are not a good reason to reject my framing.

    Your mastery of evasive debating techniques is fascinating. That is the kind of thing I would call arguing in bad faith. Are you sure you are not projecting when asserting my bad faith? Note that this is an example of providing a specific example–your evasive debating techniques–to support my point (as I have requested you do).

    Let Gw and Gb be one-place functions from IQ-relevant environments to phenotypic IQs. Gw is the “white IQ genotype”, and Gb is the “black IQ genotype”. Let Ew and Eb be the typical black and white IQ-relevant environments, respectively. What I believe is that

    Gw(Ew) – Gb(Ew) ≤ 0 (or only at little above 0)

    and

    Gw(Eb) – Gb(Eb) ≤ 0 (or only a little above o)

    is, given current evidence, more likely to be the case than

    Gw(Ew) – Gb(Ew) is substantially above 0

    and

    Gw(Eb) – Gb(Eb) is substantially above 0.

    OK, I can be flexible and work with your framing (that is the kind of thing people arguing in good faith agree to do, not insist on a reframe, right?).

    First, I am fascinated that in your first two equations you argue for <= rather than ~= (approximately equal). So you actually think with equal environments it is more likely that blacks are more intelligent? Based on what evidence? You did say this is evidence based, right?

    It is interesting that you complicate things with a fancy “one place function” idea. How are you defining the comparison operators in your notation? Is there some notion of in all cases (remember, E is a domain, there is no single Ew or Eb; and the Gs defines a range over that domain so you are implicitly doing a multivalue comparison), or do you mean on average greater or less than, or is there some other meaning? Is there any uncertainty in your G functions (e.g. can they result in different values of IQ for a given E)? How do you express that? Are you inadvertently making an argument about ALL blacks being equal to or smarter than all whites for a given environment? Now that would be revolutionary indeed. Without elaboration I can only conclude your notation is hopelessly imprecise.

    I love the way you make a strong <= 0 assertion and then immediately back away from it with a parenthetical "or only a little above o". Definitely a nice touch.

    But all in all, your statements convey little meaning unless you define "or only a little above o" and "substantially above 0". Please do so.

    Imprecision like this is the reason for my probability bins framing in comment 171. I still maintain that is a good way to think about this. How about we make it even simpler? Can you define any points in the range from 0 to 100% genetic that you think are meaningful? Say a number you think is equally likely or not? Or a number that you think is above the maximum possible in reality (if it is only a little above 0 you should be able to pick a maximum!)?

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  246. Jack D says:
    @anonguy

    A lot of current generation (what generation are we up to , Z?) young Jews, male and female, get tattoos. They are even popular in Israel. Tattoos are very fashionable now. When I was growing up, the only people I knew who had tattoos were grizzly old alkies.
     
    I got a tattoo in 1976 right after getting out of USMC boot camp, long before tattoos came into style.

    I regretted it almost immediately and it was something considered insanely low class at the time and for about 15 years thereafter on a climb through middle class respectability - college, USN officer.

    It really was like that 80s movie, Officer and a Gentleman where the Dad tells the kid officers don't have tattoos.

    I used to thank god I had at least gotten it on my upper arm and could usually hide it with a polo shirt.

    Funny thing, though, was that although the public in general deplored tattoos as a common ethic, every woman I was involved with during those years secretly thought it was quite sexy. I guess that bad boy thing.

    As usual, eventually the other guys sense this and start aping the behavior in a cargo-cult manner and tattoos become popular. Same thing, and right around the same time, early 90s, as Harley Davidsons became popular with the dentists/lawyers.

    So yeah, I definitely took pains to conceal my tattoo for many years until they came back into style. But every time I mentioned having it removed, my then girlfriend would always protest, "No, its you".

    Now here is the funny part. I long ago gave up the idea of getting it removed, but 4 decades on it is largely a blurry patch.

    Recently, I was walking past a trendy Oregon tattoo parlor and I thought, well maybe I'll ask these guys about getting it sharpened up a little bit. I've heard where they can do this sort of thing.

    So I popped in, there are a bunch of young Portlandia type guys working there. They start clustering around me looking at my tattoo and are utterly horrified at the idea of touching this up.

    It is vintage Americana, a genuine USMC tattoo from back in the day when it was done by drunks in skeezy tattoo parlors in red light districts. It would be like repainting original paint job on a 57 Chevy.

    Am I nuts?

    Then, one guy starts talking about this or that famous tattoo designer from back in the day and then runs over to the the wall where they have some of his stencils worshipfully framed.

    And points out my exact tattoo, just some eagle/flag/banner deal.

    So I'm like, ok, I guess I'm never getting rid of this thing. I told my wife that after I die my survivors should cut it off my arm and auction it on ebay.

    Great story. Thanks.

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  247. res says:
    @matt
    You haven't begun to understand what I mean. I don't in the slightest deny that people of European descent are phenotypically superior to people of African descent when it comes to IQ. (This isn't the first time I've been accused of denying this, in this thread. The only possible way anyone could read me as saying this would be through extreme bad faith and/or stupidity). What I said is that whatever genetic differences there may be could go in the opposite direction, and these genetic effects could be swamped by environmental effects that produced the observed phenotypes.

    This should be uncontroversial. It's certainly a logical possibility. It's also not unheard of. Because of dysgenic fertility, each generation is probably a little genetically inferior to the last when it comes to IQ, but the Flynn Effect means that environmental differences between generations swamp the genetic difference and produce a phenotypic difference in the opposite direction. The Dutch used to be a few inches shorter than white Americans, now they're a few inches taller. That probably means that they were genetically superior for height all along, but the environment was swamping their genetic advantage.

    This isn’t the first time I’ve been accused of denying this, in this thread.

    Where was the first? In comment 135 I asked you about this. If you can’t tell asking from accusing then I have to ask: who is acting in bad faith and/or with stupidity?

    could…could

    And the sun might not rise tomorrow. That sure tells us a lot about reality. Possible is rather different from uncontroversial. Unless, of course, you meant that the possibility existing is uncontroversial. Which is true (the sun might not rise tomorrow!), but a great example of you obfuscating with word games.

    Regarding your Flynn Effect comparison. If that analogy is actually applicable in this case, how is it that 50 years of environment changing efforts to close the test score gap have been so unsuccessful? The Dutch caught up in height very quickly once their diets improved.

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  248. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @3g4me
    @126 Pachyderm Pachyderma : "The British were savages, bloodthirsty and uncouth ignorant savages…"

    Always amusing when Han Chinese and dot-Indians come to a functional White country for education or a job unavailable to them in their home society and country, settle down in a White-style home and frequently appropriate a White wife to improve their genetic progeny's vitally important complexion, and then frequent an HBD -centric American blog to proclaim their genetic and cultural superiority and bitch about Americans specifically or Europeans in general. Immigrates immigriping somehow doesn't do them justice.

    I propose more active measures. Time will tell which it will be, but whatever occurs will be to the immigrates' shock and eternal recrimination (a la numinous et al re the English). Ask me if I care. Ask most Americans if they greatly care. And then go home - while that option remains to you.

    It’s amusing when self-loathing Ellis Islanders pretend to be Daughters of the American Revolution. Go home to Israel or something so you don’t have to play make believe.

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  249. res says:
    @TelfoedJohn
    Ok thanks for the info, my knowledge is limited in this field. From Anne's bio, it's clear that the first row in the chromosome pairs are from her mother.

    My results are on 23andme too, and show two rows for chromosomes. It's not clear whether the first row is also from my mother, since my parents (who are not on 23andme) came from the same rough geographic area.

    From Anne’s bio, it’s clear that the first row in the chromosome pairs are from her mother.

    Agreed. I am curious about whether 23andMe was able to figure this out (and if parental data was required) or they fudged the graphic since the reality is known.

    My results are on 23andme too, and show two rows for chromosomes. It’s not clear whether the first row is also from my mother, since my parents (who are not on 23andme) came from the same rough geographic area.

    Too bad we can’t get a better idea from your results (thanks for making that clear though!). If anyone here has results of their own from 23andMe that would make this clear (parents of very different background who aren’t also in 23andMe’s database) or has another way of knowing how the chromosome pairs are distinguished I would really like to learn more.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    My guess would be that the CEO of 23andMe had her staff polish their methodology until it reported her own results correctly.
  250. @res

    From Anne’s bio, it’s clear that the first row in the chromosome pairs are from her mother.
     
    Agreed. I am curious about whether 23andMe was able to figure this out (and if parental data was required) or they fudged the graphic since the reality is known.

    My results are on 23andme too, and show two rows for chromosomes. It’s not clear whether the first row is also from my mother, since my parents (who are not on 23andme) came from the same rough geographic area.

     

    Too bad we can't get a better idea from your results (thanks for making that clear though!). If anyone here has results of their own from 23andMe that would make this clear (parents of very different background who aren't also in 23andMe's database) or has another way of knowing how the chromosome pairs are distinguished I would really like to learn more.

    My guess would be that the CEO of 23andMe had her staff polish their methodology until it reported her own results correctly.

    Read More
  251. Jack D says:
    @TelfoedJohn

    if her mother was 98% Jewish and her father was 4% Jewish she could come back as 52% Jewish
     
    I believe this is shown at the bottom of Anne's page that Steve linked to: https://you.23andme.com/published/reports/6999ce120ded4584/

    If you click on Ashkenazi Jewish underneath the chromosome list, you will see most of the X chromosomes (mothers side) light up, but also a few Y chromosomes meaning that the fathers side has a few AshJ ancestors. Clicking on Eastern European gives you roughly the opposite.

    Is this how it works? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Thanks for this.

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  252. Jack D says:
    @utu
    I don’t understand why you care.

    This is about the definitions and methods used by commercial outfits like 23andme that want to make a buck and clients happy first. Scientific integrity comes second.

    They don’t claim scientific levels of perfection – they say their results are for “entertainment”. I don’t know what more you want them to say.

    I know someone who did 23 and me and their results come back 98% (or something like that – a few % means nothing) Ashkenazi and 2% Pacific Islander. This person is well aware of his heritage and there were no Pacific Islanders in the shtetl. Their tech is just not that advanced or maybe human DNA is not 100% clear cut (only 98% clear cut).

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    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    I know someone who did 23 and me and their results come back 98% (or something like that – a few % means nothing) Ashkenazi and 2% Pacific Islander. This person is well aware of his heritage and there were no Pacific Islanders in the shtetl. Their tech is just not that advanced or maybe human DNA is not 100% clear cut (only 98% clear cut).
     
    Humans have allegedly evolved from common ancestors. That 2% may be a fudge factor. Or it may be some facsimile of those common roots.
    , @utu
    maybe human DNA is not 100% clear cut (only 98% clear cut) - Naive position. 100% is the matter of postulated definition and not an objective scientific fact.

    In case of AJs it is difficult because there are different lineages with 35-55% European admixture (which is a misnomer as on some chromosomes it is larger than 55%). Each lineage requires different markers and different test criteria. For each lineage there is a sample that is a reference sample postulated to be ≈100% AJ. The whole problem is how to pick the reference samples to make the largest number of self identified AJs happy so they get the certificate they are maximum % AJ. Then you do not want pass too many "imposters." Or maybe you do because it all depends on what is true objective that might be political in nature.
    , @utu
    maybe human DNA is not 100% clear cut (only 98% clear cut) – Naive position. 100% is the matter of postulated definition and not an objective scientific fact.

    In case of AJs it is difficult because there are different lineages with 35-55% European admixture (which is a misnomer as on some chromosomes it is larger than 55%). Each lineage requires different markers and different test criteria. For each lineage there is a sample that is a reference sample postulated to be ≈100% AJ. The whole problem is how to pick the reference samples to make the largest number of self identified AJs happy so they get the certificate they are maximum % AJ. Then you do not want pass too many “imposters.” Or maybe you do because it all depends on what is true objective that might be political in nature.
  253. @AnotherDad

    You got to hand it to Sergey Brin, throwing over his wife for a younger and less attractive woman. I guess those Google-glasses double as beer-goggles.
     
    Disagree. These things are obviously a matter of taste.

    But I think pretty objectively the Wojcicki sisters are not "attractive" in the looks department. Not "unattractive", just not attractive--very ... average. The eyes and chin are not winners. The only thing that could plausibly makes Anne Wojcicki perhaps a bit better than average is that she doesn't seem to have put on a bunch of weight which is--taking the moms in my scout troop as a decent sample--not something you can say about a good number of even UMC American women these days. Susan to me--going by her recent pics--has not aged well and does not have a face I would like to wake up to in the morning. (I've got a decent sample of 50-something moms in my neighborhood, Susan is average to below average.)

    Amanda Rosenberg on the other hand is--in the pic sample which is presumably her late 20s--not any sort of knockout, but at least hints of being "cute". She has a more explicitly feminine look than the Wojcickis. How she'll look in 10 years at 40, or in 20 years at 50 ... hard to say. But i'd guess--weight control dependent--slightly better looking than the Wojcickis.

    Call the Wojcickis sisters "5"s and Amanda Rosenberg a "6".

    However, that's all just looks. Anne immediately going in search of dark meat, suggests leaving her behind was a good decision. From just the quickest look in response to your post, Amanda Rosenberg strikes me as the "attention whoring" type who has a 100