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Rep. Steve King Mentions the Empire Has No Clothes
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From the New York Times:

What, Congressman Steve King Asks, Have Nonwhites Done for Civilization?
By DANIEL VICTOR JULY 18, 2016

Representative Steve King, Republican of Iowa, questioned the historical contributions of nonwhite “subgroups” during an appearance on MSNBC on Monday, igniting swift backlash online.

Mr. King spoke during a panel discussion, led by the MSNBC host Chris Hayes, about the racial makeup of the Republican Party on the first day of the party’s convention.

“If you’re really optimistic, you can say this was the last time that old white people would command the Republican Party’s attention, its platform, its public face,” Charles P. Pierce, a writer at large at Esquire magazine, said during the panel discussion.

In response, Mr. King said: “This whole ‘old white people’ business does get a little tired, Charlie. I’d ask you to go back through history and figure out where are these contributions that have been made by these other categories of people that you are talking about? Where did any other subgroup of people contribute more to civilization?”

“Than white people?” Mr. Hayes asked.

Mr. King responded: “Than Western civilization itself that’s rooted in Western Europe, Eastern Europe and the United States of America, and every place where the footprint of Christianity settled the world. That’s all of Western civilization.”

Frantic yelling ensued, with the panelists speaking over one another. “What about Africa? What about Asia?” April Ryan, a reporter on the panel, said.

This is one of those Emperor’s New Clothes moments. As anthropologists Robin Fox and Lionel Tiger pointed out, a mob that was bullied into believing they’d lose their jobs if they admitted the truth isn’t going to listen dispassionately to somebody tell the truth. Instead, they’d get very, very angry at the one who dares to say the obvious.

Here, of course, we see three professional talkers who can only sputter with mindless rage at Rep. King.

Of course, Rep. King’s statement has been scientifically tested in Charles Murray’s Human Accomplishment. In my 2003 review, I wrote:

Dead white European males dominate his inventories, despite Murray reserving eight of his 21 categories (including Arabic literature, Indian philosophy, and Chinese visual art) for non-Western arts. Murray, who was a Peace Corp volunteer in Thailand and has half-Asian children, began this project wanting to devote even more attention to Asian accomplishments but found he couldn’t justify his predisposition.

In the sciences, 97 percent of the significant figures and events turned out to be Western. Is this merely Eurocentric bias? Of the 36 science reference books he drew upon, 28 were published after 1980, by which time historians were desperately searching for non-Westerners to praise. Only in this decade has the most advanced non-Western country, Japan, begun to win science Nobels regularly.

The irony is that modern progress over the last 600 years has been overwhelmingly the achievement of the hate object of modern progressives: dead white European males. Most other great civilizations were stuck in conservative stasis even before the European gunboats showed. Only Japan was making a modest degree of progress.

It’s too paradoxical for anybody to notice, but the general tendency of non-European civilizations has been to be excessively conservative.

Recently, Murray released his data tables to the public, so you can look at them here and see if you can find some way to empirically justify all the rage at Rep. King.

 
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  1. Whenever I hear someone say some bold statement like this, I always get very very worried. Worried that they will apologize. Which almost always follows the bold statement, unfortunately.

  2. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    King can be a badass sometimes… I remember reading Robert Novak a dozen years back on the Iowa re-gerrymander, who described it as a “Frankenstein” district inadvertently created by shoring up the state’s Democrats. The downside of the invincible right-wing boroughs is you get pols who are a bit outré for taking out into primetime like Todd Akin or Michele Bachmann. It’s a double standard since congresscritters from Oakland CA or Seattle can act bonkers all week without “exemplifying” Democrats– oh well, in a polyglot party does speaking in tongues even matter? Eye on Prize

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    I remember reading Robert Novak a dozen years back on the Iowa re-gerrymander, who described it as a “Frankenstein” district inadvertently created by shoring up the state’s Democrats.
     
    King's district (which includes Republican bastion Sioux County) used to comprise just the western edge of Iowa, which is reliably conservative. But then Iowa dropped from five to four congressmen in 2013, and King's district was rezoned to include areas that are much farther east. The result is a district that's not quite smoothly symmetrical, but not that bad compared to some states. His new district includes Story County, the home of Ames/Iowa State University, which doesn't help his reelection campaigns.

    Before that, i.e. when Novak was writing, the western Iowa district was about as geographically contiguous as you will find. I'm not sure what made it a 'Frankenstein' district.

    You can see the recent history of Iowa's congressional districts here.

  3. They were also going nuts about how King keeps a miniature Confederate Flag on his desk. King really knows how to trigger SJW’s/leftists/Obama’s coalition of the fringes. Is it too late to make him Trump’s VP?

  4. I love the obvious lameness of the “counterexamples” thrown out to refute King.

    As dumb as his attackers are, they can’t be so dumb as not to be embarrassed that that’s the best they can do.

    • Replies: @anon
    "As dumb as his attackers are, they can’t be so dumb as not to be embarrassed that that’s the best they can do."

    That's why Hayes immediately cut off the conversation. On any other controversial topic or supposed gaffe by a conservative, MSNBC's mouths would water . But there can't be a conversation (oh, the irony) b/c it's there is absolutely no contest as to who wins the argument.
  5. Yep says:

    That took a lot of guts to say. I know he’s on msnbc in this instance to provoke liberal outrage but damn, he dropped a nuke on ’em. The black female panelist was clearly the most upset by it. Her behavior shows, once again, that blacks really believe the crap cynical liberals tell them about themselves.

    • Replies: @Grandpa Jack
    "The black female panelist was clearly the most upset by it. Her behavior shows, once again, that blacks really believe the crap cynical liberals tell them about themselves."

    Actually, her outrage shows that she knows the liberal unicorns farting rainbows stories aren't true.
  6. @Anonymous
    King can be a badass sometimes... I remember reading Robert Novak a dozen years back on the Iowa re-gerrymander, who described it as a "Frankenstein" district inadvertently created by shoring up the state's Democrats. The downside of the invincible right-wing boroughs is you get pols who are a bit outré for taking out into primetime like Todd Akin or Michele Bachmann. It's a double standard since congresscritters from Oakland CA or Seattle can act bonkers all week without "exemplifying" Democrats-- oh well, in a polyglot party does speaking in tongues even matter? Eye on Prize

    I remember reading Robert Novak a dozen years back on the Iowa re-gerrymander, who described it as a “Frankenstein” district inadvertently created by shoring up the state’s Democrats.

    King’s district (which includes Republican bastion Sioux County) used to comprise just the western edge of Iowa, which is reliably conservative. But then Iowa dropped from five to four congressmen in 2013, and King’s district was rezoned to include areas that are much farther east. The result is a district that’s not quite smoothly symmetrical, but not that bad compared to some states. His new district includes Story County, the home of Ames/Iowa State University, which doesn’t help his reelection campaigns.

    Before that, i.e. when Novak was writing, the western Iowa district was about as geographically contiguous as you will find. I’m not sure what made it a ‘Frankenstein’ district.

    You can see the recent history of Iowa’s congressional districts here.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Wow. Iowa had six districts as recently as 1992, but now has only four. This is what lopsided immigration does-- tens of millions move to America, but not to Iowa.
    , @DCThrowback
    Do you remember the viral video of Rand Paul running away from the collegiate (illegal) immigration activists at in Okijoba, IA in 2015?

    The guy who stuck around to clean up Rand's mess was Steve MF'ing King.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI8rCleTbSo
  7. Incidentally, I found that clip pretty hilarious. King is not all that articulate, but Charles Pierce is so odious and hopelessly self-loathing he was dumbstruck.

    • Replies: @Yep
    You bring up a good point about him not being articulate. There appear to be no pols with alt right leanings that are good speakers except for Trump.That's a problem. If I said what King said to some of my conservative relatives and friends they would think it's racist too. The reason is we just don't have good speakers who can get these ideas across, or in this case just get facts across.
    , @AnotherDad

    Incidentally, I found that clip pretty hilarious. King is not all that articulate, but Charles Pierce is so odious and hopelessly self-loathing he was dumbstruck.
     
    "Why are you a self-hating white?"

    Since the left is pretty much running a flat out hate whitey program now, i'd like anyone on the "right" to be leading with a strong right to counter. Anytime this anti-white crap pops up ... punch back.

    For me, all even remotely conservative politicians should have at least three broad buckets of ideas, quips:

    --> white dispossession
    Why do whites--and uniquely whites--have to give up the nations we built? We don't it for anyone else. I'm not asking the Mexicans or Japanese or Chinese or Indians to give up their nations. Why all this vicious hate against white people and desire to see them pushed into a minority in their own nations--or genocided out of existence?

    The point here is there's an argument against this evil anti-white stuff even if whites hadn't kicked ass the last 500. It's called "property"--what we built is ours.

    --> white awesomeness
    Pretty much what King went for. But beyond citing white accomplishments, specifically say "White people create the best nations--with prosperity, rule of law and freedom". "And it's not just my opinion--people are voting with their feet, trying to get to them, trying to break into them!" And critically: "This nation won't be as nice--won't be as prosperous and free--when it is no longer predominately white." You can blab on about invention, rule-of-law, corruption, etc. But that's the gist of it.

    Finally
    --> separation
    "Ok, if you think whites are oppressing you ... fine, then let's just separate." "If you like Michael Brown style thuggery in your streets fine. If you like sharing your community with Muslims and their antics ... fine. Go live in your multicultural utopia. But the rest of us whites, not into suicide, should be able to live--like people the world over--in a nation with *our* white Western norms, rule-of-law, values, culture."

    It's a rhetorical device, but the point is to confront the reality that what is really driving them is hate for whitey and the desire to loot whitey. They don't actually want to be free of white "oppression" (because it doesn't actually exist) they want whites around to beat them, humiliate them and steal from them.

  8. Methinks that Donald Trump overlooked a midwesterner who could have made a very good VP pick. Maybe a future cabinet member?

  9. Way to go white people! Now please, exit from planet and evolve into space freaks.

    BTW, nasty crowd at RNC. What happened to 90% of the planet?

    • Replies: @Daniel H
    >>BTW, nasty crowd at RNC. What happened to 90% of the planet?

    90% of the planet are not American citizens, so why should we give a damn about them?
    , @anon

    BTW, nasty crowd at RNC. What happened to 90% of the planet?
     
    They're still trying to immigrate so they can get the benefit of living among the white debils.
    , @Salger
    Your ressentiment of Whites is entertaining.

    And why bother leaving? There's so much cheap labor to use.
  10. “Robin Fox and Lionel Tiger” = wtf?!

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I Am Not Making Those Names Up
    , @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    “Robin Fox and Lionel Tiger” = wtf?!"
    You must be new here.
    , @Unladen Swallow
    Early semi-sociobiologists from the late 60's- early 70's I believe. Their fame was later overshadowed by the likes of Wilson and Dawkins follwing the publication of the books Sociobiology and The Selfish Gene in the mid 70's. And yes, those are their real names, believe it or not.
  11. @The Last Real Calvinist

    I remember reading Robert Novak a dozen years back on the Iowa re-gerrymander, who described it as a “Frankenstein” district inadvertently created by shoring up the state’s Democrats.
     
    King's district (which includes Republican bastion Sioux County) used to comprise just the western edge of Iowa, which is reliably conservative. But then Iowa dropped from five to four congressmen in 2013, and King's district was rezoned to include areas that are much farther east. The result is a district that's not quite smoothly symmetrical, but not that bad compared to some states. His new district includes Story County, the home of Ames/Iowa State University, which doesn't help his reelection campaigns.

    Before that, i.e. when Novak was writing, the western Iowa district was about as geographically contiguous as you will find. I'm not sure what made it a 'Frankenstein' district.

    You can see the recent history of Iowa's congressional districts here.

    Wow. Iowa had six districts as recently as 1992, but now has only four. This is what lopsided immigration does– tens of millions move to America, but not to Iowa.

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    Wow. Iowa had six districts as recently as 1992, but now has only four. This is what lopsided immigration does– tens of millions move to America, but not to Iowa.

     

    Yes. Iowa had six districts all through my childhood, and I find it hard now to accept it's down to four; it really feels wrong.

    The state's population dropped in the 1980s, but has been slowly and steadily growing since then -- it's all the faster-growing other states that are 'stealing' districts from states like Iowa.
    , @Travis
    Another example of why the US congress needs to expand the size of the House
    One representative for 750,000 people is absurd. The founders wanted 1 rep for every 50,000.
    Britain has 650 members of Parliament , 1 for every 100,000 citizens.

    We should triple the members of congress so we have 1 rep for every 250,000 people and then add representative when populations grow every 10 years. There would be less need for ridiculous gerrymandering, and it would reduce the power of our congressmen , hard to bribe 700 members of the house than 250.
    , @RadicalCenter
    From one "RC" to another, you're exactly right.

    Congressional seats, and hence political and economic power, have moved massively to California, Texas, and Florida, with most of the CA and TX increases in particular coming from unending Mexican immigration.

    Once Texas has a Mexican-majority electorate and Florida has a Hispanic-majority electorate, every presidential election will be essentially over before it starts. Just give all the electoral votes of the four most populous States to the Dems:

    CA (55, likely increase to 56 in the 2020 reapportionment)
    TX (currently 38, likely increase to 41 in 2020)
    FL (currently 29, likely increase to 30 in 2020)
    NY (currently 29, likely decrease to 28 in 2020)

    Total 2020 electoral votes in States that will soon all be a lock for the Dems:
    155 out of the 270 needed to win the White House.

    Restoration of the Tenth Amendment / decentralization sounds better than ever, as does peaceful secession if necessary. But I'm pretty sure that neither option will be allowed.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson

    tens of millions move to America, but not to Iowa
     
    Which is good for Iowa.
  12. I wondered how long it would take the media to blame the latest black cop killer’s actions on badwhites: “The former Marine who killed three Baton Rouge, Louisiana, police officers identified with a growing movement that originated among white supremacists…” https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/baton-rouge-police-shooter-said-he-was-sovereign-citizen/2016/07/19/470f53f2-4d79-11e6-bf27-405106836f96_story.html

  13. @Jasper Been
    "Robin Fox and Lionel Tiger" = wtf?!

    I Am Not Making Those Names Up

  14. Yep says:
    @The Last Real Calvinist
    Incidentally, I found that clip pretty hilarious. King is not all that articulate, but Charles Pierce is so odious and hopelessly self-loathing he was dumbstruck.

    You bring up a good point about him not being articulate. There appear to be no pols with alt right leanings that are good speakers except for Trump.That’s a problem. If I said what King said to some of my conservative relatives and friends they would think it’s racist too. The reason is we just don’t have good speakers who can get these ideas across, or in this case just get facts across.

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    You bring up a good point about him not being articulate. There appear to be no pols with alt right leanings that are good speakers except for Trump.That’s a problem. If I said what King said to some of my conservative relatives and friends they would think it’s racist too. The reason is we just don’t have good speakers who can get these ideas across, or in this case just get facts across.

     

    It's very hard. Actual political views/speech content aside, you need someone who's quick-witted (i.e. who can recognize and seize opportunities); who's articulate (i.e. who speaks in complete sentences, with a bit of subtlety and cunning); and who can keep his cool and/or use anger tactically and effectively in the face of sputtering outrage and ad hominem attacks coming at him from all sides, especially from the 'neutral' moderator who holds the metaphorical mic and can cut him off. And then he's got to have the perseverence/endurance to come back and do this again and again and again without slipping up.

    Mark Steyn has all the rhetorical skills I've set out above, but there are few like him around.

    , @MC
    Trump is not a good speaker. Maybe only alt right figure who can speak thoroughly and coherently is Ann Coulter.
    , @Anon7
    It takes a certain kind of man with particular set of skills to take that first beach head. It's incredibly difficult to take and hold a point of view that everyone else tries to shout down.

    Trump does it with sheer alpha male dominance and persuasive ability. When Trump doubles down, he's digging in. Don't be pushed back into the sea. Once he's taken the beach and held it, then there's room for articulate people to be heard. A space has to be created for rational discussion (thanks, Western Civilization!); it doesn't exist on its own.
    , @guest
    Higher education sucks up bright minds and indoctrinates them. As for the ones who manage to escape thought prison, they're usually smart enough to see how to get ahead, and that's obviously not by being an "alt-right"-er. The smartest don't usually become politicians, anyway, though there are some exceptionally bright ones.
    , @LondonBob
    Kobach? Dissappointed he was not given a speaking slot, like you say not many out there.
    , @iffen
    The reason is we just don’t have good speakers who can get these ideas across

    It is obvious to me that it is difficult for a racist to thread the needle. It is the same with Jew-haters, sooner or later it will come through if you speak or write enough.
    , @ben tillman

    You bring up a good point about him not being articulate. There appear to be no pols with alt right leanings that are good speakers except for Trump.
     
    You think Trump is articulate? Having balls and being articulate or being a good speaker are two entirely different things.
    , @anon

    You bring up a good point about him not being articulate.
     
    It's not that - needs balls to advocate public heresy - most people get nervous.
  15. PINHOLE CAMERA

    • Replies: @avraham
    That is from Rome
  16. It is perhaps unfortunate that the computer industry developed during an era when terms and nomenclature became acronyms or bland academic jargon instead of being given the name of the discoverer or developer. This is in contrast to an earlier era where old white men like Volta, Watt and Ohm were honored by having their names used to describe the fundamentals of the fields they pioneered.

    Had the previous method been used it would be impossible for the anti white male legions to reference computers technology and software without having to mention the names of the old white men who created the field.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    Modern high tech fields have a lot of nonwhite diversity, but it's overwhelmingly East Asian and South Asian. There are some Hispanics, but not a ton--and there are almost no blacks. In some fields (biology) there are a lot of women; in others (computers, EE) there are a few women.
    , @Pontius
    Oh come on now, don't you remember the master/slave drive settings kefuffle a few years back.
  17. @Reg Cæsar
    Wow. Iowa had six districts as recently as 1992, but now has only four. This is what lopsided immigration does-- tens of millions move to America, but not to Iowa.

    Wow. Iowa had six districts as recently as 1992, but now has only four. This is what lopsided immigration does– tens of millions move to America, but not to Iowa.

    Yes. Iowa had six districts all through my childhood, and I find it hard now to accept it’s down to four; it really feels wrong.

    The state’s population dropped in the 1980s, but has been slowly and steadily growing since then — it’s all the faster-growing other states that are ‘stealing’ districts from states like Iowa.

    • Replies: @dsgntd_plyr
    congress has the authority to increase the number of congressional seats once a decade after each census, but they've chosen to leave it at 435 since 1929. i heard a reason congress won't increase seats is because they've run out of office space, and no one wants to spend money on a new building.

    "The U.S. Constitution called for at least one Representative per state and that no more than one for every 30,000 persons." http://history.house.gov/Historical-Highlights/1901-1950/The-Permanent-Apportionment-Act-of-1929/

    There should be 10,767 members of congress using the original formula.
    , @AlphaSupremo
    Rahm will take care of that.
    , @Forbes
    Don't feel too bad--until 1950, New York had 45 congressional districts--39 until 1980.
    It now has 27. You might applaud this--except all the population losses were R-leaning Upstate, not D-leaning downstate.
  18. Normally, leftists are able to muster some sort of frenzied counterargument, even if it’s just viciously denouncing their foes. In this case, they’re practically speechless. Truly amazing.

    • Replies: @Lurker
    In these situations - I think the goodthinkers all totally believe that somewhere out there is the killer argument, the killer facts that support their position. Then when someone blurts out a thoughtcrime they all look to the others to deliver the knockout punch. Because it must exist, right? But no one does, because it doesn't.
  19. @Yep
    You bring up a good point about him not being articulate. There appear to be no pols with alt right leanings that are good speakers except for Trump.That's a problem. If I said what King said to some of my conservative relatives and friends they would think it's racist too. The reason is we just don't have good speakers who can get these ideas across, or in this case just get facts across.

    You bring up a good point about him not being articulate. There appear to be no pols with alt right leanings that are good speakers except for Trump.That’s a problem. If I said what King said to some of my conservative relatives and friends they would think it’s racist too. The reason is we just don’t have good speakers who can get these ideas across, or in this case just get facts across.

    It’s very hard. Actual political views/speech content aside, you need someone who’s quick-witted (i.e. who can recognize and seize opportunities); who’s articulate (i.e. who speaks in complete sentences, with a bit of subtlety and cunning); and who can keep his cool and/or use anger tactically and effectively in the face of sputtering outrage and ad hominem attacks coming at him from all sides, especially from the ‘neutral’ moderator who holds the metaphorical mic and can cut him off. And then he’s got to have the perseverence/endurance to come back and do this again and again and again without slipping up.

    Mark Steyn has all the rhetorical skills I’ve set out above, but there are few like him around.

    • Replies: @Lurker
    Just a theory.

    Anyone with those skills and the right political views will rarely be allowed on the MSM in the first place, people like must exist but they never get the chance to hone their skills, to be really at ease on camera. Whereas leftist talking heads may be on TV/radio constantly, speaking truth to power on a regular basis. They will be used to the format, the presentation etc.
    , @Steve Sailer
    Steyn's hugely gifted, but he lives in New Hampshire so he can't do big time TV all that regularly. You pretty much have to live in New York or Washington (or Atlanta if you are on CNN) or L.A. (if you are more entertainment than news).

    A long time ago I was counting up how many times I'd been on TV and I came up with around ten. I estimated back then then I'd need to be on TV at least 100 times to make any progress toward being recognizable, and I now think that was an underestimate.

    And TV appearances generally don't pay.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    For a younger audience, Milo Yiannopoulos would be another name. And he's based in LA.
    , @AndrewR
    Milo and Coulter to name two with proven track records of holding their own against hostile leftards.
    , @Ttjy
    Stefan Molyneux would fit that description, although he is Canadian. He has a ton of great videos.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm-5kQRsfm0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zc_q9p9iYg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJPFdS6SSgQ

    Atheism is unstopplable is good too. There are a ton about black crime too., not just Islam.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eDyuKC1XKA&index=28&list=LLsd5dDaP-yQTTTgtEt4fBkA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG90V0bbIOg&index=29&list=LLsd5dDaP-yQTTTgtEt4fBkA

  20. I just saw a headline on google news and thought he must have used the N word.

    It only took a minute for both Hitler and Stalin to get tossed into the mix.

  21. @Yep
    You bring up a good point about him not being articulate. There appear to be no pols with alt right leanings that are good speakers except for Trump.That's a problem. If I said what King said to some of my conservative relatives and friends they would think it's racist too. The reason is we just don't have good speakers who can get these ideas across, or in this case just get facts across.

    Trump is not a good speaker. Maybe only alt right figure who can speak thoroughly and coherently is Ann Coulter.

    • Replies: @Gunnar von Cowtown
    You should check out some alt-right podcasts.

    -Richard Spencer
    -Greg Johnson
    -Vox Day
    -Milo
    ...are all extremely articulate.

    If you wanna dip your toe into The Right Stuff Radio pool,
    -Jazzhands McFeels
    -Halberstram
    -Seventh Son
    -Reactionary Tree
    .... are also very articulate despite their zany pseudonyms.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    Don't forget the feisty and excellent Laura Ingraham.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    The best man to represent the white team in the media would be the brilliant, well-informed, even-tempered, and entirely reasonable Jared Taylor. Why don't they feature him as the "racist" non-white America can hate on? Because he's too good at defending the "huWhite" position.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    Coulter should have been chosen for VP.
  22. I am not sure what are “notable” definitions. I searched for several known Polish scientists, mathematicians, philosophers, and not a single appeared in the data: Łukasiewicz, Kotarbiński, Tarski, Witelo, Mandelbrot (well, this one was Jewish born in Warsaw), steinhaus, ulam, ajdukiewicz, czochralski, czekanowski, koneczny, hirszfeld, malinowski, sierpiński. I mean it seems that their contributions were at least comparable if not greater, than some of the people included in Murray’s list (like, for example, Ansel Adams – or why Lumiere brothers but no Prószyński?)

    The first one which appeared was Banach

    • Replies: @Jack D
    If you are keeping score , Steinhaus, Ulam and Hirszfeld were also Jewish.
    , @Anon 2
    You could add Count Alfred Korzybski, born and
    raised in Poland, and famous as the creator of General
    Semantics (1933), (not the most felicitous name) to
    your list. Most people have heard of
    his maxim "The map is not the territory,"
    and his insistence that non-Aristotelian
    logic (e.g., treating the word 'is' with extreme caution)
    provides a better map of the flux of reality than
    traditional logic. In the 1930s -'40s America Korzybski
    was more famous than Einstein. Some of us
    remember his famous disciple, S.I. Hayakawa
    (popularized by the media as someone who in the '60s
    fought campus activists at San Jose State) who
    did much to spread the word of the master.

    General Semantics influenced the development
    of Neuro-Linguistic Programming and Dianetics.
    It seems like the twentieth century had many
    prophetic figures who tried to lift humanity
    from its sorry condition - Bertrand Russell, Carl
    Jung, Alfred Korzybski, Krishnamurti, Gandhi,
    Maharishi (creator of TM), Helen Schucman
    (scribe of A Course in Miracles, often called
    the Third Testament), and Mari Perron (scribe
    of A Course of Love)
    , @utu
    A 3rd rate scientist usually knows that he isn't a 1st rate. A 2nd rate scientist often makes a mistake that he is a 1st rate. The same mistake make his followers and acolytes. Murray is 2nd rate. Also his field is rather strange. The field that deals with intelligence of others is populated with bores and mediocrities in both temperament and intelligence.
    , @Harold
    Tarski? Tarski? Maybe I’m biased because logic is sort of my field, but Tarski? That is surprising.

    You would think if you got Banach you’d get Tarski as well ;-)
  23. Rep. Steve King shouldn’t be allowed to use any inventions created by people who are not white. No elevators, no microphones, no pacemakers

    • Replies: @Discard
    Elisha Otis, a White man, invented the elevator.

    Wilson Greatbatch, a White man, invented the pacemaker.

    In 1962, after nearly a century of invention and improvement by White men, Gerhard Sessler, a White man, and his sidekick James West, a quadroon, developed a new type of microphone at Bell Labs.

    Pretty slender reed, Mr DeVry.
    , @Rob McX
    I'll bet the hypocritical bastard enjoys a peanut butter sandwich too, when nobody is looking.
    , @Jack D
    And peanut butter. Don't forget peanut butter. So (even conceding your list, which is dubious) you have elevators, microphones, pacemakers, (peanut butter) vs. EVERY OTHER DAMN THING.

    The point is, you are totally allowed to hate on white people - can't wait until all those old white people are dead and no longer in charge. It's a perfectly acceptable sentiment to express. But if you say anything that is the teeny tiniest bit negative about non-whites or express that Western culture is has made greater contributions, then Nelly bar the door - you're a racis'. So it's really not possible to have a "conversation" when one side is free to express its thoughts but the other side is pre-constrained even before they are allowed to open their mouth.
    , @Mr. Anon
    Don't forget the mop. And the traffic light. Those are also things that black people falsely claim to have been invented by black people.

    There are a lot of black invention myths. Probably because there have been so few things (actual things) invented by black people.

    , @Louis Renault
    Or the wheel.
    , @Anonymous
    No super soakers!
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson

    shouldn’t be allowed to use any inventions created by people who are not white
     
    You are using inventions created by white people, you disgusting hypocrite.
  24. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @candid_observer
    I love the obvious lameness of the "counterexamples" thrown out to refute King.

    As dumb as his attackers are, they can't be so dumb as not to be embarrassed that that's the best they can do.

    “As dumb as his attackers are, they can’t be so dumb as not to be embarrassed that that’s the best they can do.”

    That’s why Hayes immediately cut off the conversation. On any other controversial topic or supposed gaffe by a conservative, MSNBC’s mouths would water . But there can’t be a conversation (oh, the irony) b/c it’s there is absolutely no contest as to who wins the argument.

  25. To be fair, these two talking heads didn’t have time to prepare a response. Let’s look at what race-denialists can put together when they have time to gather their material.

    http://www.vox.com/2016/7/18/12218672/steve-king-racist-ignorant

    “The “cradles of civilization” were in areas populated by brown people.
    The Phoenician alphabet is the basis for the modern alphabet of many languages.
    Egyptians helped bring paper and ink pens to Western civilizations — just two of the many contributions attributable to them.
    Middle Eastern scholars like Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī and Omar Khayyam invented crucial elements of algebra before they spread to Europe.
    The Chinese invented gunpowder and potentially the compass, among many other inventions.
    Indian people made many contributions to technologies we now take for granted, from farming to math.
    America was built on the slave labor of black Americans.
    There were many famous black inventors throughout US history.
    Jesus was possibly brown.”

    Take that honky!

    • Replies: @Numinous

    Jesus was possibly brown
     
    Actually, it would be weird if he wasn't. He would have been a freak, and would have stuck out like a sore thumb. Or maybe the white supremacists think that he was, and perhaps he was crucified because of his surrounding society's anti-white ideology?
    , @bomag
    I thought this was a joke list, considering the referenced North African/Middle Easteners were largely Caucasoid; the Chinese "potentially"(?) invented the compass.

    What's brought us here is the intersection between radical egalitarianism and Black narcissism: our prominent political discourse has a crossroads at "everybody's equal" and "Black people are superior in every way if we can just stop the lies", so we get the *hate Whitey* syndrome, which seems to please both camps.
    , @AndrewR
    Why the hell are you reading Vox? It's a site without any intellectual rigor at all, plus it is very bad for mental health unless you're a super masochist.
    , @pink_point
    It makes an impression to read your (Vox's) resume while listening to Rachmaninoff, played by Horowitz...

    I assume Steve King was thinking of Hispanics and Blacks, non-white peoples living in the USA.

    There's no doubt great contributions to culture have come from what's India today, Japan, China, and the Middle East.
    They just took a deep nap for about 1,000 years (2,000, some).

    Western whites have been outputting culture for 25 centuries (I include the Greek).

    They stopped at the onset of the 20th century, I am afraid.
    , @Marcus

    America was built on the slave labor of black Americans.
     
    Is this what liberals believe? For a country that was actually "built on slave labor" check out Trinidad or Haiti.
    , @Jack D

    America was built on the slave labor of black Americans.
     
    It's funny then that most of the slaves were down South doing agricultural work while most of the built-up infrastructure was up North. Anyway, no one (certainly not the NFL) disputes that blacks have strong backs, but I thought we were talking about intellectual achievements. In the North, it was the Irish who were doing most of the backbreaking labor digging canals and laying rails and such, but this doesn't entitle them to intellectual credit either.
    , @SPMoore8
    Just in detail: German Lopez is an ignoramus.

    So a sitting member of Congress is literally saying that white people are superior than people of other races on national television. (Then again, maybe this shouldn’t be surprising — given that King has a Confederate flag in his office.)
     
    Actually he said nothing of the kind, but if you want to feel oppressed, you may.

    To help King out, here are just a few contributions that people of other races have made to civilization:

    The "cradles of civilization" were in areas populated by brown people.
     

    Irrelevant to the discussion, but the inhabitants of the Fertile Crescent were not "non-Caucasian."

    The Phoenician alphabet is the basis for the modern alphabet of many languages.
     

    And were Semites so draw your own conclusions, and their alphabet inspired Semitic and Indo-European alphabets.

    Egyptians helped bring paper and ink pens to Western civilizations — just two of the many contributions attributable to them.
     

    What does "helped bring" mean? Did they take them off the mothership? Or did they "invent" them? In any case, they invented papyrus, a kind of paper.

    Middle Eastern scholars like Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī and Omar Khayyam invented crucial elements of algebra before they spread to Europe.
     
    Arabs are Semites, Khayyam was a Persian = Honkies of the Desert

    The Chinese invented gunpowder and potentially the compass, among many other inventions.
     

    Chinese gunpowder, ok, "potentially" the compass? Like, they didn't, but, they could have? Many other inventions? Such as? (How about silk, cotton, and coal use pioneers, perhaps.)

    Indian people made many contributions to technologies we now take for granted, from farming to math.
     
    A statement so vague as to be meaningless.

    America was built on the slave labor of black Americans.
     
    Which is an exaggeration and totally irrelevant.

    There were many famous black inventors throughout US history.
     

    Such as? Time for a Benjamin Banneker moment.

    Jesus was possibly brown.
     

    Jesus = Semite = White (Waiting for the Black Athena etymology from Bernal that explains that "Semite" is a contraction of "Semi-White".)

    This list is by no means comprehensive. But these are some fairly big contributions to modern civilization. So not only is King’s statement racist, it’s also ignorant.
     
    The most dreary part of Lopez' article is that it was something that was written out of his own head and with a time limit. And that's all there is! Also extremely insulting that he did not credit black people for the invention of Twerking.
    , @Judah Benjamin Hur
    Levantines are naturally white. Those that are brown have mixed with Africans. Jesus was almost certainly white.

    Chinese inventions are incredibly impressive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions

    Indians have also made substantial contributions, as have numerous other "sub-groups" (haha).

    Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi and Omar Khayyam were white Persians.

    Black inventions? Does this have something to do with a peanut? It makes more sense to talk about musical compositions and other black artistic accomplishments.

    The main point of the Steve King story is that it's socially acceptable to be anti-White and it's stunning when a white person fights back. Every white person needs to fight back, and hard. Since I'm not so far away from being an "old white man," I'd say this fight needs to be won damn quickly!
    , @syonredux

    There were many famous black inventors throughout US history.
     
    Sadly, the Americans who invented the airplane, the Morse-Vail telegraph, the revolver, the cyclotron, the phonograph, the transistor, the lightning rod, the liquid propellent rocket, the tabulating machine, the audion tube, etc, etc, weren't Black.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    That K2 is potent, isn't it Gabriel?
    , @Marc
    "The “cradles of civilization” were in areas populated by brown people"

    It's doubtful either of the regions where those early civilizations arose were as brown at their pinnacle as they are today. You have to factor in a nearly a millennia of sub-Saharan slave importation into the current admixture before presuming that the ancient civilizations were peopled with those darker than the lighter skinned Arabs predominating the higher castes of the modern Middle East.
  26. @gruff
    PINHOLE CAMERA

    That is from Rome

  27. A 1000 year dark ages looms before Western man. Our kind is doomed.

    • Replies: @Yak-15
    All kinds are doomed.
    , @bomag
    I guess we've seen what Man can achieve. And why we can't sustain it.
    , @Anon7
    "...despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not."

    JRRT
  28. ‘what about africa’

    yeah, what about it?

    • Replies: @Yak-15
    In this case when she says "what about Africa" she will probably go on to cite things that the Egyptians invented or built. This, of course, despite the fact that Egyptian are not sub Sahara Africans similar to herself. Many blacks really do believe, unbelievably to me, that ancient Egypt was some amazing black paradise. It's bizarre.
  29. It was a fine thing to say if he was angling for the white nationalist vote. A dumb one if he was looking to cast the Democrats as the black party and the GOP as the non-black party.

    • Replies: @JSM
    the GOP as the non-black party.

    Why the hell would he want to do that? As Steve has elucidated, GOP as the White people's party can still win it, if the GOP would give us someone to vote for (and that criteria includes someone who actually has our interests as White people at heart, and doesn't throw us under the bus in order to pander to non-black non-whites.)

    You new here? Go do your reading assignment. http://www.vdare.com/articles/election-2010-and-the-unmentionable-sailer-strategy-white-vote-still-key
    , @Anon
    So you think becoming the party that represents 87% of Americans is a worse electoral strategy than being the party that represents 13%? Math isn't a strong suit for you, I guess.
  30. What do you call “white?” If you include Jewish people from Eastern Europe and Russian people, then that is 100% of progress. But if you do not include Jews and Slavs from Russia then a lot would be lost.

    • Replies: @CJ

    What do you call “white?” If you include Jewish people from Eastern Europe and Russian people, then that is 100% of progress. But if you do not include Jews and Slavs from Russia then a lot would be lost.
     
    I'm pretty sure the rest of the MSNBC panel would include them all as "old white men".
    , @Robbie
    Notice how all the Jews who Invent Things look like White German Males?

    Honey babes, the Jews were *admittedly* smart and hijacked the best of Germanic DNA.

    But make no mistake...that 'greatness' is Germanic Christian DNA at heart.

    You don't see a lot of dark-arab-skinned Orthodox types doing a lot of progressin'.
  31. @Sid
    Normally, leftists are able to muster some sort of frenzied counterargument, even if it's just viciously denouncing their foes. In this case, they're practically speechless. Truly amazing.

    In these situations – I think the goodthinkers all totally believe that somewhere out there is the killer argument, the killer facts that support their position. Then when someone blurts out a thoughtcrime they all look to the others to deliver the knockout punch. Because it must exist, right? But no one does, because it doesn’t.

  32. The irony is that modern progress over the last 600 years has been overwhelmingly the achievement of the hate object of modern progressives: dead white European males.

    And yet with all your intelligence and insight, Steve, it never occurred to you that this may not be ironic at all.

    Is it possible that people know what they hate, and hate it on purpose?

    Maybe people hate “modern proggress”.

    It SEEMS like that’s what white people are saying, almost screaming, but for some reason, no one is listening.

    What happened to Occams Butterknife? To reaching for complicated explanations when obvious ones are at hand? To noticing the ACTUAL behavior of white elites who pay vast sums to flee modern proggress by vacationing in exotic, primitive locale the moment they can, and living in old, pre modern neighborhoods, and any number of similar things?

    No, we must not notice these things, and we must be puzzled by the strange irony of whites hating the very people who brought them what they spend so much time fleeing.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    But, still, I kind of like monoclonal antibodies ...
    , @reiner Tor

    vacationing in exotic, primitive locale the moment they can, and living in old, pre modern neighborhoods, and any number of similar things?
     
    The primitive locale has modern technology there, without which nobody is going to these places. My wife is Vietnamese and having traveled in Vietnam I can tell you most people do not want to travel to places without a trace of modernity. People want to enjoy the climate (or maybe even the exoticness of the people and their architecture), but they want to do this while still being connected to modernity.

    living in old, pre modern neighborhoods
     
    Pre-modern architecture (this, actually, includes most of modern 19th century architecture and a lot of post-modern architecture as well) was better than some silly glass & steel thingy. Green lawn and trees etc. are beautiful, too, and you often cannot find them in most densely built (modern or pre-modern) neighborhoods, but it has very little to do with modernity per se. In Hungary I have seen poor villages with a lot of green and cheap housing where (at least until real estate developers notice) nobody wants to live (even though there are no Gypsies, the places are dying out, full of very old white Hungarians), but rich guys prefer bucolic scenes with broadband internet and fast roads or highways connecting them to the city.

    In other words, most people don't want to escape modernity at all. They want to stay inside modernity, but with better architecture and climate and a lot of trees and lawn.

    , @bomag

    Maybe people hate “modern proggress”
     
    And maybe they don't. I notice that when people vote with their feet, they head toward "proggress".
    , @Anonymous
    This has been noticed in the past by famous men of letters like Ben Franklin and J. Hector St. John de Crèvecœur.

    https://www.edb.utexas.edu/faculty/salinas/students/student_sites/Spring2008/Ashley_Meredith/creveidentity.html

    “They [European-American colonists that were previously captured by Native Americans) chose to remain; and the reasons they gave me would greatly surprise you: The most perfect freedom, the ease of living, the absence of those cares and corroding solicitudes which so often prevail with us; the peculiar goodness of the soil they cultivated, for they did not trust altogether to hunting; all these, and many more motives, which I have forgot, made them prefer that life, of which we entertain such dreadful opinions. It cannot be, therefore, so bad as we generally conceive it to be; there must be in their social bond something singularly captivating, and far superior to any thing to be boasted of among us; for thousands of Europeans are Indians, and we have no examples of even one of those Aborigines having from choice become Europeans! There must be something more congenial to our native dispositions than the fictitious society in which we live; or else why should children, and even grown person, become in a short time so invincibly attached to it?”
     
    http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/letter-to-peter-collinson/

    When an Indian Child has been brought up among us, taught our language and habituated to our Customs, yet if he goes to see his relations and make one Indian Ramble with them, there is no perswading him ever to return, and that this is not natural to them merely as Indians, but as men, is plain from this, that when white persons of either sex have been taken prisoners young by the Indians, and lived a while among them, tho’ ransomed by their Friends, and treated with all imaginable tenderness to prevail with them to stay among the English, yet in a Short time they become disgusted with our manner of life, and the care and pains that are necessary to support it, and take the first good Opportunity of escaping again into the Woods, from whence there is no reclaiming them. One instance I remember to have heard, where the person was brought home to possess a good Estate; but finding some care necessary to keep it together, he relinquished it to a younger Brother, reserving to himself nothing but a gun and a match-Coat, with which he took his way again to the Wilderness.
     
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson

    we must be puzzled by the strange irony of whites hating the very people who brought them what they spend so much time fleeing
     
    Their posturing must be placed in the context of their hypocrisy. They might visit the premodern world, but they have no intention of living there. OTOH they would consign the rest of us to subsistence farming in a heartbeat.

    To hell with them.
  33. @The Last Real Calvinist

    You bring up a good point about him not being articulate. There appear to be no pols with alt right leanings that are good speakers except for Trump.That’s a problem. If I said what King said to some of my conservative relatives and friends they would think it’s racist too. The reason is we just don’t have good speakers who can get these ideas across, or in this case just get facts across.

     

    It's very hard. Actual political views/speech content aside, you need someone who's quick-witted (i.e. who can recognize and seize opportunities); who's articulate (i.e. who speaks in complete sentences, with a bit of subtlety and cunning); and who can keep his cool and/or use anger tactically and effectively in the face of sputtering outrage and ad hominem attacks coming at him from all sides, especially from the 'neutral' moderator who holds the metaphorical mic and can cut him off. And then he's got to have the perseverence/endurance to come back and do this again and again and again without slipping up.

    Mark Steyn has all the rhetorical skills I've set out above, but there are few like him around.

    Just a theory.

    Anyone with those skills and the right political views will rarely be allowed on the MSM in the first place, people like must exist but they never get the chance to hone their skills, to be really at ease on camera. Whereas leftist talking heads may be on TV/radio constantly, speaking truth to power on a regular basis. They will be used to the format, the presentation etc.

    • Replies: @FX Enderby
    Right. Pat Buchanan was fantastic on MSNBC and his earlier TV gigs when he talked about immigration and race but the conversations almost never went in that direction. Even so he was still too dangerous and got booted off. "No platform" indeed.
    , @The Last Real Calvinist

    Anyone with those skills and the right political views will rarely be allowed on the MSM in the first place, people like must exist but they never get the chance to hone their skills, to be really at ease on camera. Whereas leftist talking heads may be on TV/radio constantly, speaking truth to power on a regular basis. They will be used to the format, the presentation etc.

     

    Yes, you may be on to something. Steyn has done lots of talk radio and TV, for example.

    Hugh Hewitt (also from talk radio, but now moving more and more into TV) is also good at scoring points against leftists in the heat of the moment, but it's taken him years to establish an MSM beachhead, and then fortify and cultivate that MSM presence. I listen to his radio show, where he again and again invites on MSM talking heads, and speaks soothingly to them so they don't get alarmed at even the mildest conservative critiques. I sense him pulling his rhetorical punches pretty frequently in order to retain his MSM access pass.

    One other note: I fully agree it's not easy being off-the-cuff clever in front of a camera. I've done a bit of TV work -- not even live -- and it took me lots of reps to feel something less than horribly self-conscious when being filmed.

    , @Rob McX
    Good point. Maybe it's different now, but when I used to watch TV, any white nationalist ever invited on a show seemed just this side of retarded.
    , @Anonym
    Say what you will about him, David Duke wrecks whenever he is given an opportunity to talk, which is why they talk over him or not invite him in the first place.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zFmPjT0Qglc

    Is his style of attacking (((influence))) instead of recognizing and persuading it effective? I think the latter is better but your point is correct. The Jerry Springer Nazi strawman paid actor is who we have been allowed to see mostly on TV.

    On the original topic, my first thought was Milo as someone else stated. He is a shameless self promoter but also the real deal. He is what you'd expect if you attempted to selectively breed a debating superman. Naturally, he's a Jew Greek mix.
  34. @AaronB
    The irony is that modern progress over the last 600 years has been overwhelmingly the achievement of the hate object of modern progressives: dead white European males.

    And yet with all your intelligence and insight, Steve, it never occurred to you that this may not be ironic at all.

    Is it possible that people know what they hate, and hate it on purpose?

    Maybe people hate "modern proggress".

    It SEEMS like that's what white people are saying, almost screaming, but for some reason, no one is listening.

    What happened to Occams Butterknife? To reaching for complicated explanations when obvious ones are at hand? To noticing the ACTUAL behavior of white elites who pay vast sums to flee modern proggress by vacationing in exotic, primitive locale the moment they can, and living in old, pre modern neighborhoods, and any number of similar things?

    No, we must not notice these things, and we must be puzzled by the strange irony of whites hating the very people who brought them what they spend so much time fleeing.

    But, still, I kind of like monoclonal antibodies …

    • Replies: @AaronB
    Sure, and indoor plumbing is pretty neat too.

    But on balance, maybe modernity, with its scientific nihilism, is responsible for white self hate, and the suicide of the West.

    Maybe it's time to admit that there is something dark and life-sapping about modernity - monoclonal antibodies notwithstanding?

    Surely that's the easiest way to explain weird white behavior like unlimited xenophilia and all the rest.

    If the West commits suicide, then we lose monoclonal antibodies anyways. It'd be great if we can reform what's wrong with modernity without losing such wonderful things, but it may not be possible.

    Of course, no one really wants to choose between irreconcilable goods, or even admit good things can be irreconcilable , but as they say, not choosing is still a choice, and like you, Steve, we seem to have chosen monoclonal antibodies as a civilization. And die by that choice, rather than give it up.

    Human nature being what it is, all this may be inevitable - Trump notwithstanding, the West will probably die of scientific materialism - but maybe we can do so with a little rueful dignity, for what it's worth, by facing what's going on.
  35. @Lurker
    Just a theory.

    Anyone with those skills and the right political views will rarely be allowed on the MSM in the first place, people like must exist but they never get the chance to hone their skills, to be really at ease on camera. Whereas leftist talking heads may be on TV/radio constantly, speaking truth to power on a regular basis. They will be used to the format, the presentation etc.

    Right. Pat Buchanan was fantastic on MSNBC and his earlier TV gigs when he talked about immigration and race but the conversations almost never went in that direction. Even so he was still too dangerous and got booted off. “No platform” indeed.

    • Replies: @Dissident
    Al Sharpton (in addition to enjoying a welcome at both the White House as well as NYC's Gracie Mansion) has a show on MSNBC, with major, entirely mainstream corporate sponsors. The same MSNBC that fired Pat Buchanan.
  36. @Lurker
    Just a theory.

    Anyone with those skills and the right political views will rarely be allowed on the MSM in the first place, people like must exist but they never get the chance to hone their skills, to be really at ease on camera. Whereas leftist talking heads may be on TV/radio constantly, speaking truth to power on a regular basis. They will be used to the format, the presentation etc.

    Anyone with those skills and the right political views will rarely be allowed on the MSM in the first place, people like must exist but they never get the chance to hone their skills, to be really at ease on camera. Whereas leftist talking heads may be on TV/radio constantly, speaking truth to power on a regular basis. They will be used to the format, the presentation etc.

    Yes, you may be on to something. Steyn has done lots of talk radio and TV, for example.

    Hugh Hewitt (also from talk radio, but now moving more and more into TV) is also good at scoring points against leftists in the heat of the moment, but it’s taken him years to establish an MSM beachhead, and then fortify and cultivate that MSM presence. I listen to his radio show, where he again and again invites on MSM talking heads, and speaks soothingly to them so they don’t get alarmed at even the mildest conservative critiques. I sense him pulling his rhetorical punches pretty frequently in order to retain his MSM access pass.

    One other note: I fully agree it’s not easy being off-the-cuff clever in front of a camera. I’ve done a bit of TV work — not even live — and it took me lots of reps to feel something less than horribly self-conscious when being filmed.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I usually find it difficult to talk to a voicemail or answering machine, I need to prepare what I'll say in advance, otherwise it sounds pretty incoherent.
    , @Maj. Kong
    Hewitt is a major neocon, an intellectual descendent of Harry Jaffa.
    , @Boomstick
    Hewitt is retains lawyerly courtroom decorum. He can also be good at using his soothing tones to lure the unsuspecting into rhetorical ambushes, though he's usually polite about it.
  37. @Anonymous
    Rep. Steve King shouldn't be allowed to use any inventions created by people who are not white. No elevators, no microphones, no pacemakers

    Elisha Otis, a White man, invented the elevator.

    Wilson Greatbatch, a White man, invented the pacemaker.

    In 1962, after nearly a century of invention and improvement by White men, Gerhard Sessler, a White man, and his sidekick James West, a quadroon, developed a new type of microphone at Bell Labs.

    Pretty slender reed, Mr DeVry.

    • Replies: @Former Darfur
    The most in demand microphones are still the Neumann/Telefunken U-47, U-87, and similar variants thereof, and the 1930s and 1940s RCA ribbon mics such as the 44 and 77.

    All designed by white guys.

    http://gizmodo.com/382389/the-neumann-microphone-approved-by-the-beatles-and-hitler
    http://www.coutant.org/ribbons.html
    , @Hibernian
    I could be wrong, but I think he was being ironic.
  38. @The Last Real Calvinist

    Anyone with those skills and the right political views will rarely be allowed on the MSM in the first place, people like must exist but they never get the chance to hone their skills, to be really at ease on camera. Whereas leftist talking heads may be on TV/radio constantly, speaking truth to power on a regular basis. They will be used to the format, the presentation etc.

     

    Yes, you may be on to something. Steyn has done lots of talk radio and TV, for example.

    Hugh Hewitt (also from talk radio, but now moving more and more into TV) is also good at scoring points against leftists in the heat of the moment, but it's taken him years to establish an MSM beachhead, and then fortify and cultivate that MSM presence. I listen to his radio show, where he again and again invites on MSM talking heads, and speaks soothingly to them so they don't get alarmed at even the mildest conservative critiques. I sense him pulling his rhetorical punches pretty frequently in order to retain his MSM access pass.

    One other note: I fully agree it's not easy being off-the-cuff clever in front of a camera. I've done a bit of TV work -- not even live -- and it took me lots of reps to feel something less than horribly self-conscious when being filmed.

    I usually find it difficult to talk to a voicemail or answering machine, I need to prepare what I’ll say in advance, otherwise it sounds pretty incoherent.

    • Replies: @Ivy
    Some voicemail systems allow you to listen to the message and then append or delete and re-record, but if you hit the wrong button (i.e., was it the star key, or something else to delete, or does that send instead?) your message is preserved for posterity. I used the delete and re-record features quite a lot as that helped make an initial thought into a more polished message.
  39. OT – Steve, have you a take on this “Russian doping scandal” that the BBC are all over, it’s been the main news item for a couple of days now.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/36823453

    “The commission, led by Canadian law professor and sports lawyer Dr Richard McLaren, looked into allegations made by the former head of Russia’s national anti-doping laboratory. Grigory Rodchenkov claimed he doped dozens of athletes before the 2014 Winter Olympics, which were held in Sochi, Russia. Rodchenkov – described by the Kremlin as a “scandalous” former official – also alleged he had been helped by the Russian secret service, the FSB. He claimed they had worked out how to open and reseal supposedly tamper-proof bottles that were used for storing urine samples so the contents could be replaced with “clean” urine.”

    Now nothing would surprise me – I remember when Iron Curtain women athletes looked like men* – but Rodchenkov is currently in the States and it’s all terribly convenient. Rodchenkov’s not Masha Gessen’s cousin or anything, is he?

    * and an awful lot of 1980s women’s records – like Flo-Jo’s – still standing today, implying dirty work.

  40. CJ says:
    @avraham
    What do you call "white?" If you include Jewish people from Eastern Europe and Russian people, then that is 100% of progress. But if you do not include Jews and Slavs from Russia then a lot would be lost.

    What do you call “white?” If you include Jewish people from Eastern Europe and Russian people, then that is 100% of progress. But if you do not include Jews and Slavs from Russia then a lot would be lost.

    I’m pretty sure the rest of the MSNBC panel would include them all as “old white men”.

  41. @The Last Real Calvinist

    You bring up a good point about him not being articulate. There appear to be no pols with alt right leanings that are good speakers except for Trump.That’s a problem. If I said what King said to some of my conservative relatives and friends they would think it’s racist too. The reason is we just don’t have good speakers who can get these ideas across, or in this case just get facts across.

     

    It's very hard. Actual political views/speech content aside, you need someone who's quick-witted (i.e. who can recognize and seize opportunities); who's articulate (i.e. who speaks in complete sentences, with a bit of subtlety and cunning); and who can keep his cool and/or use anger tactically and effectively in the face of sputtering outrage and ad hominem attacks coming at him from all sides, especially from the 'neutral' moderator who holds the metaphorical mic and can cut him off. And then he's got to have the perseverence/endurance to come back and do this again and again and again without slipping up.

    Mark Steyn has all the rhetorical skills I've set out above, but there are few like him around.

    Steyn’s hugely gifted, but he lives in New Hampshire so he can’t do big time TV all that regularly. You pretty much have to live in New York or Washington (or Atlanta if you are on CNN) or L.A. (if you are more entertainment than news).

    A long time ago I was counting up how many times I’d been on TV and I came up with around ten. I estimated back then then I’d need to be on TV at least 100 times to make any progress toward being recognizable, and I now think that was an underestimate.

    And TV appearances generally don’t pay.

    • Replies: @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    "And TV appearances generally don’t pay"
    Airtime pays.
    , @MC
    It's too bad Trump can't just choose a "champion" like Steyn or Nigel Farage to debate in his place:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-zHoDANH-R8
    , @Rob McX
    A quick check on YouTube brings up only one clip of you on TV. Maybe you should track down the rest and upload them.
    , @NickG
    The late Christopher Hitchens made a point of never missing an opportunity to appear on the telly; but then he lived in Washington DC. The advantage of this was that if a talking-head was needed in a hurry, he could be relied upon. Which generates its own self reinforcing currency, it put his name in folk's minds and he became an entry in the well-thumbed section of TV scheduler's Rolodex.

    Germane quote from Hitch-22.

    , @JackOH
    I've done local radio, which, for some reason, gave me credibility that writing alone didn't. You want to make your case firmly but politely, leave the door open to a second invitation by not boxing in your moderator or panelists too badly, plus, you want to keep your day job, and make sure you're ready for threats from the ignorati among the listening audience. Practice, practice, practice--I did maybe twenty or thirty hours with a proxy questioner before hitting the mike for a half-hour show.

    "And TV appearances generally don't pay." I wouldn't want to touch public debate again without institutional support---money and the endorsement of somebody important that whatever you're doing is worthwhile.
  42. “scientifically tested in Charles Murray’s Human Accomplishment”: come off it, Steve. Methodically tested, I’ll grant you, but “scientifically”, no!

    His results are bound to be biased by several issues. (i) For which markets were his reference books published? If they were aimed at an American market, then Americans are likely to be overrepresented; if for a Chinese, Chinese, and so forth. (ii) Which languages did the compilers speak or read? If they were mainly English speakers, for instance, then English-speakers are likely to be overrepresented; if German, German, and so on. But none, I’ll bet, were written by masters of Akkadian, say. (iii) Perhaps most important of all is the question of time. Which middle easterners invented agriculture: lost in the mists of time. Which Hindoos invented zero and the whole set of “Arabic” numerals – or was zero perhaps invented by Sumerians or Babylonians? All forgotten now.

    You could seriously argue that perhaps the most accomplished – and certainly the most important – inventors in history were the neolithic middle easterners who invented bronze metallurgy and writing, thus ending the neolithic period and starting civilisation. And we have no idea who those individuals were.

    The fact that the middle east has been a midden for the last many centuries shouldn’t blind one to the facts. Those chaps were being accomplished while your ancestors and mine were hunting and gathering on the coasts and forest-edges of Europe, and on the Eurasian steppes, in deeply unaccomplished ways.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    Which Hindoos invented zero and the whole set of “Arabic” numerals – or was zero perhaps invented by Sumerians or Babylonians? All forgotten now.
     
    Not just forgotten, but never celebrated or recorded at the time.

    Modern Western civilization is unique in carefully recording authorship and attributing credit to individuals in cultural and technological endeavor. This has not been the rule in most other civilizations.

    Even with something as recent as the Taj Mahal, which was built in the same decade that Harvard College was founded, the names of the architects, contractors and master craftsmen are hard to figure out. And this was the Mughals, who came from a Turkic-Persian culture in which written history and records were important. With the Hindus, self-effacing toil was the norm. No one knows the names of the creators of the great bronzes and sculptures of ancient India, and most of the philosophical texts are nameless. Even with more recent achievements, few names are remembered. That adds another layer of methodological problems to that database.

    Notwithstanding all that, Steve King is right in that the huge explosion of scientific and technical achievement of the last six centuries comes from the white male West.

    These achievements that eclipse all that came before for the most simple and visceral of reasons. In especially the last 150 years or so, they have made human life easy, comfortable and safe beyond any of the wildest fantasies of earlier times.

    That our insights stand on the shoulders of earlier insights, where-ever those came from, is a banal observation. That the insights, especially scientific and technological, of our modern era are unique, extraordinary and intellectually massive is to assert what is usefully true.

    There is another, simple demographic fact that skews the numbers wildly in favor of the West of the last 500 years. Not only did the insights happen here, they happened at a time of exponential population growth.

    By modern standards, there were simply not a great number of titanic minds in antiquity, when the world's population could have been as little as 50 million— Greeks, Chinese, Indians, Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Arabs, Romans and what have you all combined.

    But the world started with a base of 500 million people or so after the Middle Ages and has been above a billion almost since the late-Enlightenment period. There were vastly more great right-tail minds at work in Western Europe in recent centuries than there ever were in antiquity, simply by reason of the population number being greater by a big multiple.

    That makes a huge difference, and may be a reason why our achievements have vastly outnumbered and swamped those of any other earlier group. Exacerbating the effect is also the simple fact that non-Western civilizations simultaneously went into intellectual hibernation for the last five centuries. Speculation as to why that happened is likely fruitless, and also pointless.

    The West has been batting .400 for five centuries now and playing way more games than in earlier seasons, and the other players have basically been at zip in the same five century period.
    , @reiner Tor
    You could be right. A few points.

    1) Present-day Middle Easterners are only partially derived from ancient Middle Easterners. They have something like 5-10% recent (last 2ky) Sub-Saharan ancestry, another maybe 20 or 30% Peninsula Arab ancestry, some Central Asian or Mongol ancestry etc. In other words, those inventions were made by a population that does not exist any more, or maybe only fragments of it exist (like Alawites or Middle Eastern Christians etc.)

    2) Innovations need environment, too. Western Europeans had a much worse climate and so needed more time to domesticate plants or breed plants suited for the climate. The Middle Easterners had it all and then blew it, while Europeans went on to create modernity.

    3) You might be correct about the big picture, but we can talk about recent history and the present. Just exactly who else did invent modernity? Even in the present, other than the Japanese and Chinese and a few related ethnicities nobody else is capable of operating functioning first world societies, or innovating in hi tech. That's still a robust result.

    4) As to Murray's book, of course it has its limitations, but some of your complaints were addressed in the book itself, IIRC.
    , @syonredux

    For which markets were his reference books published? If they were aimed at an American market, then Americans are likely to be overrepresented; if for a Chinese, Chinese, and so forth.
     
    Just curious, have you read his book? Murray does address the issue of bias in his data sources. For example, when evaluating English-language authors, he used critical sources that were not written in English. And the same protocol was followed for other languages (non-French critical works were used for French authors, non-German critical works were used for German authors, etc).

    Perhaps most important of all is the question of time. Which middle easterners invented agriculture: lost in the mists of time. Which Hindoos invented zero and the whole set of “Arabic” numerals – or was zero perhaps invented by Sumerians or Babylonians? All forgotten now.
     
    Murray has a section where he talks about things like zero, Hindu-Arabic numerals, writing, etc.
  43. A good teacher learns to handle questions off the cuff. Doing six successful shows a day for lively audiences ready to take advantage of your hesitation or errors is good training for any public speaker.

    • Replies: @Anonym
    That's an awesome insight. One of my go to examples for great 'quick on feet' speakers is exactly that - an ex-teacher.

    Still, I know another ex-teacher and he is not in the same league. Some people are just talented.

    , @Brutusale
    To say nothing of the repetition factor.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    Toastmasters helps.
  44. @Hacienda
    Way to go white people! Now please, exit from planet and evolve into space freaks.

    BTW, nasty crowd at RNC. What happened to 90% of the planet?

    >>BTW, nasty crowd at RNC. What happened to 90% of the planet?

    90% of the planet are not American citizens, so why should we give a damn about them?

    • Replies: @Hacienda
    Because they are now better than you? Maybe?
  45. Wilson Greatbatch, a White man, invented the pacemaker.

    Richards and Mason, two White men, invented the peacemaker.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    Following on from Mr Colt's work for equality.
  46. @Jasper Been
    "Robin Fox and Lionel Tiger" = wtf?!

    “Robin Fox and Lionel Tiger” = wtf?!”
    You must be new here.

    • Agree: pink_point
  47. @Steve Sailer
    Steyn's hugely gifted, but he lives in New Hampshire so he can't do big time TV all that regularly. You pretty much have to live in New York or Washington (or Atlanta if you are on CNN) or L.A. (if you are more entertainment than news).

    A long time ago I was counting up how many times I'd been on TV and I came up with around ten. I estimated back then then I'd need to be on TV at least 100 times to make any progress toward being recognizable, and I now think that was an underestimate.

    And TV appearances generally don't pay.

    “And TV appearances generally don’t pay”
    Airtime pays.

  48. More seriously, the Steve King clip reveals the utter inability of most panelists in these TV discussions in our country to think on their feet or reply with a zinger, however flimsy.

    I’ve been watching quite a bit of the British Parliament’s question hour lately thanks to Brexit events, and I must say that the art of debate, wit and repartee has withered significantly in a generation on this side of the Atlantic.

    We were never a match for the Brits in my living memory, and in any case it was never fully our style, but we used to be better, a lot better.

    In terms of verbal skills, most intellectuals and public figures these days are dull plodders, with neither wit nor whimsy at their command. I blame management speak and focus group processed political press release language for this, at least in the political arena.

    And in these talk shows, a babble of semi-coherent outraged noises are the usual answer to something like Steve King’s statement. That figures. Outrage is what is taught in our fine, fine liberal arts universities these days, not the arts of rhetoric.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    "We were never a match for the Brits in my living memory, and in any case it was never fully our style, but we used to be better, a lot better. "

    In public schools and Oxbridge, debating is still a thing.

    In the Guardian, Jonathan Freedland, a representative member of the media class who gave us Mrs Doreen Lawrence 24/7 for fifteen years, laments the queue of bereaved parents onstage for one night at the RNC.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/19/republican-convention-trump-gop-grief-exploitation

    "Trump's Republican party hits new low: relentless exploitation of genuine grief "
    , @rod1963
    Most media formats in the U.S. work against having debates or even intelligent discussions. Think of it as a game of chess where we throw pieces at one another whilst shouting.

    IOW it's geared towards entertainment and only that. Legit debate and discussions don't fit that format. Especially when you only have 42 minutes in a hour to talk about something or 18 minutes in a half-hour show.

    Really could you see FoxNews having real debates? I don't. CNN and MSNBC, well forget about out it as well.

    In terms of debate skills, thanks to the inclusion of low wattage and hyper emotional blacks into debate societies it's really gone down hill. You just have screaming matches that pass for debates.

    It's just best at this time to withdraw from the public field.
    , @PistolPete
    Was watching old McLaughlin Group from early 90s on YouTube. The quality of debate was so much better. And no Elenor, women ruin so much.
  49. @Discard
    Elisha Otis, a White man, invented the elevator.

    Wilson Greatbatch, a White man, invented the pacemaker.

    In 1962, after nearly a century of invention and improvement by White men, Gerhard Sessler, a White man, and his sidekick James West, a quadroon, developed a new type of microphone at Bell Labs.

    Pretty slender reed, Mr DeVry.

    The most in demand microphones are still the Neumann/Telefunken U-47, U-87, and similar variants thereof, and the 1930s and 1940s RCA ribbon mics such as the 44 and 77.

    All designed by white guys.

    http://gizmodo.com/382389/the-neumann-microphone-approved-by-the-beatles-and-hitler
    http://www.coutant.org/ribbons.html

    • Agree: Spmoore8
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    The most in demand microphones are still the Neumann/Telefunken U-47, U-87, and similar variants thereof, and the 1930s and 1940s RCA ribbon mics such as the 44 and 77.
     
    These cost thousands, and originals manufactured in that era from 1935-1960 still command a premium in the used market and are treasured. In fact, many independent recording studios advertise their complement of special, old mics. They "voice" in a way many modern mics fail to. Think of the great jazz vocal and instrumental records from the 1950s and 1960s.
    , @Veracitor
    In some sense the most important microphone ever invented was Alexander Graham Bell's original dynamic mike, though it didn't work very well-- but one could also make a case for Thomas Edison's carbon mike, which made the telephone and electronic sound recording practical and even formed the basis of the carbon amplifier. Both of those were invented by white men. All subsequent microphones, whether ribbon, dynamic, piezo, electret, or whatever, were birthed into and nurtured by a world of electronics proceeding from the first two. Of course, most of them were also invented by white men, like most of everything in science and technology.
  50. @Steve Sailer
    Steyn's hugely gifted, but he lives in New Hampshire so he can't do big time TV all that regularly. You pretty much have to live in New York or Washington (or Atlanta if you are on CNN) or L.A. (if you are more entertainment than news).

    A long time ago I was counting up how many times I'd been on TV and I came up with around ten. I estimated back then then I'd need to be on TV at least 100 times to make any progress toward being recognizable, and I now think that was an underestimate.

    And TV appearances generally don't pay.

    It’s too bad Trump can’t just choose a “champion” like Steyn or Nigel Farage to debate in his place:

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    It’s too bad Trump can’t just choose a “champion” like Steyn or Nigel Farage to debate in his place.

     

    This is something that's always mystified me: why does Barack Obama choose someone who can barely form a sentence (such as Josh Earnest) to be his White House Press Secretary?

    I think it shows how much faithful adherence to pushing the narrative trumps rhetorical skills, even at the highest political levels.
    , @Brutusale
    Steyn is my favorite Canadian import outside of Trois Pistoles.
  51. NonWhites provide the 2 most important ingredients: Muh Vibrancy & Muh Diversity.. Bigot Murray didn’t include voodoo as science, so of course you’ll get the silly patriachal Eurocentric 97% #.

  52. @Steve Sailer
    But, still, I kind of like monoclonal antibodies ...

    Sure, and indoor plumbing is pretty neat too.

    But on balance, maybe modernity, with its scientific nihilism, is responsible for white self hate, and the suicide of the West.

    Maybe it’s time to admit that there is something dark and life-sapping about modernity – monoclonal antibodies notwithstanding?

    Surely that’s the easiest way to explain weird white behavior like unlimited xenophilia and all the rest.

    If the West commits suicide, then we lose monoclonal antibodies anyways. It’d be great if we can reform what’s wrong with modernity without losing such wonderful things, but it may not be possible.

    Of course, no one really wants to choose between irreconcilable goods, or even admit good things can be irreconcilable , but as they say, not choosing is still a choice, and like you, Steve, we seem to have chosen monoclonal antibodies as a civilization. And die by that choice, rather than give it up.

    Human nature being what it is, all this may be inevitable – Trump notwithstanding, the West will probably die of scientific materialism – but maybe we can do so with a little rueful dignity, for what it’s worth, by facing what’s going on.

    • Replies: @bomag

    But on balance, maybe modernity, with its scientific nihilism, is responsible for white self hate, and the suicide of the West.
     
    Plenty of societies since the beginning of time have been self hating and suicidal. I don't think we are particularly unique in that respect. There seems to be an unstable equilibrium between self criticism and self destruction: societies that are critical and harshly evaluate themselves often find a path toward improvement and increase, but they can also go down in flames if the critical agents become too toxic.
    , @WhatEvvs
    OK, point taken. Don't forget the Higher Criticism, which originated in 18th century Germany, destroying the basis of Christianity as a vital faith:

    http://www.victorianweb.org/religion/higher.html

    Meanwhile, the Muslims believe with absolute certainty that their book is the Truth. What can stand up to a blazing belief in the truth of one's revelation?

    Still, I maintain a slender hope that the West will prevail. In what form, I can't say. Current neo-liberalism is a losing proposition, for sure.
    , @pink_point
    Yes, life becomes impossible without illusions, and the more inquisitive, explorative a civilization's mind is, the quicker they wear out all illusions.

    (See fertility rates & IQ relationship: the higher the IQ, the more they want, subconsciously, to disappear. Having offspring is a, subconscious, way of surviving.)
    , @pink_point
    Yes, life becomes impossible without illusions, and the more inquisitive, explorative a civilization's mind is, the quicker they wear out all illusions.

    (See fertility rates & IQ relationship: the higher the IQ, the more they want, subconsciously, to disappear. Having offspring is a, subconscious, way of surviving.)

    The most enlightened minds saw what was coming to the West as early as 2 centuries ago (I, Leopardi, was one of the first if not the first. And so was my German friend, author of The World as Will and Representation).

    Life needs to use reason, but it can't shrink to reason. Reason is not life.
    The Western man has shrunk to reason.
    Then they get more and more disillusioned, and hurt.
    Vanity doesn't let them admit their ill-feeling comes from wrong, vainglorious ideas.
    And yet somewhere deep in their mind they know it's their own fault's to feel as bad as they do.

    So?
    So they started seeking for sins and wrongs of theirs. They want to know why they feel so bad.
    They want to hate themselves (for making themselves feeling so bad).
    But, like always, their mind can find anything but the truth.

    Vain, vain species... the only one with the ability to build their pains on their own.
    , @scrivener3
    Maybe the fatal flaw is nothing about indoor plumbing or monoclonal antibodies. Maybe there are evil people who forward their agenda with every tool that they can, including violence, distortion, fraud, emotion, demagoguery, playing on other's better nature and sense of fairness, abuse of positions of influence (like legacy media and academia), lies, subversion, etc
    , @ben tillman

    But on balance, maybe modernity, with its scientific nihilism, is responsible for white self hate, and the suicide of the West.
     
    In a word, no.

    Modernity does not encompass "scientific nihilism", for starters, and of course it's not suicide.
    , @anon

    But on balance, maybe modernity, with its scientific nihilism, is responsible for white self hate, and the suicide of the West.
     
    If it was suicide the media wouldn't have to lie.

    Surely that’s the easiest way to explain weird white behavior like unlimited xenophilia and all the rest.
     
    The easiest way to explain it would be manipulation by a media controlled by a minority ethnic group who promote xenophilia among the majority as a defense mechanism.
  53. There’s a bit of a muddle among the panelists over whether they’re talking about civilizations, peoples, the United States—a political entity, individual inventors or discoverers, etc. At all events, better thinkers than I have looked into those things.

    Imagine human life on Earth ends tomorrow. A Martian historian lands and takes preliminary notes on a study of Earthling life. I know I’m setting up a very crude, surely biased straw man here, but how could a Martian historian not notice that peoples in the following continental groupings share common characteristics and are distinguishable from peoples of other continents.

    Group #1 – Australia, North America, South America, Europe, Antarctica

    Group #2 – Asia

    Group #3 – Africa

    My point, of course, is that Western civilization (or Western Christendom), is something of an 800 lb. gorilla. No one in his right mind can ignore it and its good influences. Even the ability of TV personalities to trash “dead White European males” without risking death or banishment is something of a Western innovation in how people ought to live together. Even Black Americans who openly despise Whites seem to not want to hop a jet for a new life in Africa.

    By Western civilization, I do include the peoples who’ve become part of that civilization by various assimilative processes. I. e., American Indians, Africans, Western Asians (think Imperial Rome).

    Put more crudely: how do you not give the White guys (mostly) credit where it’s due?

  54. @dearieme
    "scientifically tested in Charles Murray’s Human Accomplishment": come off it, Steve. Methodically tested, I'll grant you, but "scientifically", no!

    His results are bound to be biased by several issues. (i) For which markets were his reference books published? If they were aimed at an American market, then Americans are likely to be overrepresented; if for a Chinese, Chinese, and so forth. (ii) Which languages did the compilers speak or read? If they were mainly English speakers, for instance, then English-speakers are likely to be overrepresented; if German, German, and so on. But none, I'll bet, were written by masters of Akkadian, say. (iii) Perhaps most important of all is the question of time. Which middle easterners invented agriculture: lost in the mists of time. Which Hindoos invented zero and the whole set of "Arabic" numerals - or was zero perhaps invented by Sumerians or Babylonians? All forgotten now.

    You could seriously argue that perhaps the most accomplished - and certainly the most important - inventors in history were the neolithic middle easterners who invented bronze metallurgy and writing, thus ending the neolithic period and starting civilisation. And we have no idea who those individuals were.

    The fact that the middle east has been a midden for the last many centuries shouldn't blind one to the facts. Those chaps were being accomplished while your ancestors and mine were hunting and gathering on the coasts and forest-edges of Europe, and on the Eurasian steppes, in deeply unaccomplished ways.

    Which Hindoos invented zero and the whole set of “Arabic” numerals – or was zero perhaps invented by Sumerians or Babylonians? All forgotten now.

    Not just forgotten, but never celebrated or recorded at the time.

    Modern Western civilization is unique in carefully recording authorship and attributing credit to individuals in cultural and technological endeavor. This has not been the rule in most other civilizations.

    Even with something as recent as the Taj Mahal, which was built in the same decade that Harvard College was founded, the names of the architects, contractors and master craftsmen are hard to figure out. And this was the Mughals, who came from a Turkic-Persian culture in which written history and records were important. With the Hindus, self-effacing toil was the norm. No one knows the names of the creators of the great bronzes and sculptures of ancient India, and most of the philosophical texts are nameless. Even with more recent achievements, few names are remembered. That adds another layer of methodological problems to that database.

    Notwithstanding all that, Steve King is right in that the huge explosion of scientific and technical achievement of the last six centuries comes from the white male West.

    These achievements that eclipse all that came before for the most simple and visceral of reasons. In especially the last 150 years or so, they have made human life easy, comfortable and safe beyond any of the wildest fantasies of earlier times.

    That our insights stand on the shoulders of earlier insights, where-ever those came from, is a banal observation. That the insights, especially scientific and technological, of our modern era are unique, extraordinary and intellectually massive is to assert what is usefully true.

    There is another, simple demographic fact that skews the numbers wildly in favor of the West of the last 500 years. Not only did the insights happen here, they happened at a time of exponential population growth.

    By modern standards, there were simply not a great number of titanic minds in antiquity, when the world’s population could have been as little as 50 million— Greeks, Chinese, Indians, Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Arabs, Romans and what have you all combined.

    But the world started with a base of 500 million people or so after the Middle Ages and has been above a billion almost since the late-Enlightenment period. There were vastly more great right-tail minds at work in Western Europe in recent centuries than there ever were in antiquity, simply by reason of the population number being greater by a big multiple.

    That makes a huge difference, and may be a reason why our achievements have vastly outnumbered and swamped those of any other earlier group. Exacerbating the effect is also the simple fact that non-Western civilizations simultaneously went into intellectual hibernation for the last five centuries. Speculation as to why that happened is likely fruitless, and also pointless.

    The West has been batting .400 for five centuries now and playing way more games than in earlier seasons, and the other players have basically been at zip in the same five century period.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    There's a hell of a difference between "we invented everything" and "we've done best for the last 500 years".
    , @Ivy
    So you are implying that the non-West has been batting below the Mendoza Line?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendoza_Line
    , @Anonymous
    I'm pretty sure those ancient inventors were remembered long after their deaths, probably as legendary figures, with the passage of time gradually distorting and finally effacing memories of them. A thousand years from now nobody will remember Newton or Leibnitz either. Future history books will just record that "calculus was probably discovered sometime in the second millennium".
  55. @MC
    It's too bad Trump can't just choose a "champion" like Steyn or Nigel Farage to debate in his place:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-zHoDANH-R8

    It’s too bad Trump can’t just choose a “champion” like Steyn or Nigel Farage to debate in his place.

    This is something that’s always mystified me: why does Barack Obama choose someone who can barely form a sentence (such as Josh Earnest) to be his White House Press Secretary?

    I think it shows how much faithful adherence to pushing the narrative trumps rhetorical skills, even at the highest political levels.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    Probably because the object of the exercise is to not reveal information under questioning. It's a misinformation campaign, focused primarily in not disturbing the narratives concocted by the Democrats' partners in the news and entertainment media. Bumbling non-speak accomplishes this.
    , @Anon
    Obama is an attention hog of staggering proportions. He doesn't want any articulate person in his administration having regular access to a microphone. Otherwise, that person would be getting more media coverage than Obama, and Obama is one heck of a jealous man when it comes to getting attention. He tries to turn every single speech he has ever given towards himself as a topic.
  56. @dearieme
    "scientifically tested in Charles Murray’s Human Accomplishment": come off it, Steve. Methodically tested, I'll grant you, but "scientifically", no!

    His results are bound to be biased by several issues. (i) For which markets were his reference books published? If they were aimed at an American market, then Americans are likely to be overrepresented; if for a Chinese, Chinese, and so forth. (ii) Which languages did the compilers speak or read? If they were mainly English speakers, for instance, then English-speakers are likely to be overrepresented; if German, German, and so on. But none, I'll bet, were written by masters of Akkadian, say. (iii) Perhaps most important of all is the question of time. Which middle easterners invented agriculture: lost in the mists of time. Which Hindoos invented zero and the whole set of "Arabic" numerals - or was zero perhaps invented by Sumerians or Babylonians? All forgotten now.

    You could seriously argue that perhaps the most accomplished - and certainly the most important - inventors in history were the neolithic middle easterners who invented bronze metallurgy and writing, thus ending the neolithic period and starting civilisation. And we have no idea who those individuals were.

    The fact that the middle east has been a midden for the last many centuries shouldn't blind one to the facts. Those chaps were being accomplished while your ancestors and mine were hunting and gathering on the coasts and forest-edges of Europe, and on the Eurasian steppes, in deeply unaccomplished ways.

    You could be right. A few points.

    1) Present-day Middle Easterners are only partially derived from ancient Middle Easterners. They have something like 5-10% recent (last 2ky) Sub-Saharan ancestry, another maybe 20 or 30% Peninsula Arab ancestry, some Central Asian or Mongol ancestry etc. In other words, those inventions were made by a population that does not exist any more, or maybe only fragments of it exist (like Alawites or Middle Eastern Christians etc.)

    2) Innovations need environment, too. Western Europeans had a much worse climate and so needed more time to domesticate plants or breed plants suited for the climate. The Middle Easterners had it all and then blew it, while Europeans went on to create modernity.

    3) You might be correct about the big picture, but we can talk about recent history and the present. Just exactly who else did invent modernity? Even in the present, other than the Japanese and Chinese and a few related ethnicities nobody else is capable of operating functioning first world societies, or innovating in hi tech. That’s still a robust result.

    4) As to Murray’s book, of course it has its limitations, but some of your complaints were addressed in the book itself, IIRC.

    • Replies: @avraham
    After the Arab conquest of the Middle East, Arab blood got mixed up with everyone in those areas. That happened even in Greece and Spain. The original Greeks were blond hair blue eyes as we see in Homer and in all Roman and Greek histories from that period. The Persians were not related to Arabs but got mixed up after the Arabs conquered that region.
    India was settled by Persians who became the upper brahman class and made their discoveries.
    Algebra needless to say was well known to Euclid and Diophantus and in India.
    , @dearieme
    (1) "those inventions were made by a population that does not exist any more": true but irrelevant.

    (2) excuse-making.

    (3) straw man.

    (4) "some of your complaints were addressed in the book itself": addressing problems is beside the point - did he solve them?
    , @iSteveFan

    In other words, those inventions were made by a population that does not exist any more,
     
    This eventually could be the case with "Americans" in about 100 years. I can imagine in a century some non-Europeans inhabiting what is the USA arguing with some other non-Europeans about how great they are because they put a man on the moon in 1969.
  57. @PiltdownMan
    More seriously, the Steve King clip reveals the utter inability of most panelists in these TV discussions in our country to think on their feet or reply with a zinger, however flimsy.

    I've been watching quite a bit of the British Parliament's question hour lately thanks to Brexit events, and I must say that the art of debate, wit and repartee has withered significantly in a generation on this side of the Atlantic.

    We were never a match for the Brits in my living memory, and in any case it was never fully our style, but we used to be better, a lot better.

    In terms of verbal skills, most intellectuals and public figures these days are dull plodders, with neither wit nor whimsy at their command. I blame management speak and focus group processed political press release language for this, at least in the political arena.

    And in these talk shows, a babble of semi-coherent outraged noises are the usual answer to something like Steve King's statement. That figures. Outrage is what is taught in our fine, fine liberal arts universities these days, not the arts of rhetoric.

    “We were never a match for the Brits in my living memory, and in any case it was never fully our style, but we used to be better, a lot better. “

    In public schools and Oxbridge, debating is still a thing.

    In the Guardian, Jonathan Freedland, a representative member of the media class who gave us Mrs Doreen Lawrence 24/7 for fifteen years, laments the queue of bereaved parents onstage for one night at the RNC.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/19/republican-convention-trump-gop-grief-exploitation

    “Trump’s Republican party hits new low: relentless exploitation of genuine grief “

  58. @The Last Real Calvinist

    You bring up a good point about him not being articulate. There appear to be no pols with alt right leanings that are good speakers except for Trump.That’s a problem. If I said what King said to some of my conservative relatives and friends they would think it’s racist too. The reason is we just don’t have good speakers who can get these ideas across, or in this case just get facts across.

     

    It's very hard. Actual political views/speech content aside, you need someone who's quick-witted (i.e. who can recognize and seize opportunities); who's articulate (i.e. who speaks in complete sentences, with a bit of subtlety and cunning); and who can keep his cool and/or use anger tactically and effectively in the face of sputtering outrage and ad hominem attacks coming at him from all sides, especially from the 'neutral' moderator who holds the metaphorical mic and can cut him off. And then he's got to have the perseverence/endurance to come back and do this again and again and again without slipping up.

    Mark Steyn has all the rhetorical skills I've set out above, but there are few like him around.

    For a younger audience, Milo Yiannopoulos would be another name. And he’s based in LA.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Milo is a riot, and very quick on his feet. Check out his podcast with Ann Coulter over at Breitbart where they debate who is the queen of conservatism.

    Here is his recentreview of Ghostbusters: http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/07/18/milo-reviews-ghostbusters/

  59. “Only Japan was making a modest degree of progress.”

    And, Japan is around 98% ethnically Japanese. Very little diversity there.

  60. @The Last Real Calvinist

    Anyone with those skills and the right political views will rarely be allowed on the MSM in the first place, people like must exist but they never get the chance to hone their skills, to be really at ease on camera. Whereas leftist talking heads may be on TV/radio constantly, speaking truth to power on a regular basis. They will be used to the format, the presentation etc.

     

    Yes, you may be on to something. Steyn has done lots of talk radio and TV, for example.

    Hugh Hewitt (also from talk radio, but now moving more and more into TV) is also good at scoring points against leftists in the heat of the moment, but it's taken him years to establish an MSM beachhead, and then fortify and cultivate that MSM presence. I listen to his radio show, where he again and again invites on MSM talking heads, and speaks soothingly to them so they don't get alarmed at even the mildest conservative critiques. I sense him pulling his rhetorical punches pretty frequently in order to retain his MSM access pass.

    One other note: I fully agree it's not easy being off-the-cuff clever in front of a camera. I've done a bit of TV work -- not even live -- and it took me lots of reps to feel something less than horribly self-conscious when being filmed.

    Hewitt is a major neocon, an intellectual descendent of Harry Jaffa.

  61. @reiner Tor
    You could be right. A few points.

    1) Present-day Middle Easterners are only partially derived from ancient Middle Easterners. They have something like 5-10% recent (last 2ky) Sub-Saharan ancestry, another maybe 20 or 30% Peninsula Arab ancestry, some Central Asian or Mongol ancestry etc. In other words, those inventions were made by a population that does not exist any more, or maybe only fragments of it exist (like Alawites or Middle Eastern Christians etc.)

    2) Innovations need environment, too. Western Europeans had a much worse climate and so needed more time to domesticate plants or breed plants suited for the climate. The Middle Easterners had it all and then blew it, while Europeans went on to create modernity.

    3) You might be correct about the big picture, but we can talk about recent history and the present. Just exactly who else did invent modernity? Even in the present, other than the Japanese and Chinese and a few related ethnicities nobody else is capable of operating functioning first world societies, or innovating in hi tech. That's still a robust result.

    4) As to Murray's book, of course it has its limitations, but some of your complaints were addressed in the book itself, IIRC.

    After the Arab conquest of the Middle East, Arab blood got mixed up with everyone in those areas. That happened even in Greece and Spain. The original Greeks were blond hair blue eyes as we see in Homer and in all Roman and Greek histories from that period. The Persians were not related to Arabs but got mixed up after the Arabs conquered that region.
    India was settled by Persians who became the upper brahman class and made their discoveries.
    Algebra needless to say was well known to Euclid and Diophantus and in India.

    • Replies: @Numinous

    India was settled by Persians who became the upper brahman class and made their discoveries.
     
    Have you been reading some crappy fantasy genre? Or have you been smoking something really potent?
    , @Anonymous
    Actually, from the extant paintings of that era, Minoans, Greeks etc pretty much uniformly depicted themselves with dark hair.
    , @PiltdownMan
    You really should peruse Razib Khan's archives in the parallel forum.

    There is a lot of recent DNA research that makes a lot of these older kinds of speculations about origins irrelevant and meaningless.

  62. @PiltdownMan

    Which Hindoos invented zero and the whole set of “Arabic” numerals – or was zero perhaps invented by Sumerians or Babylonians? All forgotten now.
     
    Not just forgotten, but never celebrated or recorded at the time.

    Modern Western civilization is unique in carefully recording authorship and attributing credit to individuals in cultural and technological endeavor. This has not been the rule in most other civilizations.

    Even with something as recent as the Taj Mahal, which was built in the same decade that Harvard College was founded, the names of the architects, contractors and master craftsmen are hard to figure out. And this was the Mughals, who came from a Turkic-Persian culture in which written history and records were important. With the Hindus, self-effacing toil was the norm. No one knows the names of the creators of the great bronzes and sculptures of ancient India, and most of the philosophical texts are nameless. Even with more recent achievements, few names are remembered. That adds another layer of methodological problems to that database.

    Notwithstanding all that, Steve King is right in that the huge explosion of scientific and technical achievement of the last six centuries comes from the white male West.

    These achievements that eclipse all that came before for the most simple and visceral of reasons. In especially the last 150 years or so, they have made human life easy, comfortable and safe beyond any of the wildest fantasies of earlier times.

    That our insights stand on the shoulders of earlier insights, where-ever those came from, is a banal observation. That the insights, especially scientific and technological, of our modern era are unique, extraordinary and intellectually massive is to assert what is usefully true.

    There is another, simple demographic fact that skews the numbers wildly in favor of the West of the last 500 years. Not only did the insights happen here, they happened at a time of exponential population growth.

    By modern standards, there were simply not a great number of titanic minds in antiquity, when the world's population could have been as little as 50 million— Greeks, Chinese, Indians, Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Arabs, Romans and what have you all combined.

    But the world started with a base of 500 million people or so after the Middle Ages and has been above a billion almost since the late-Enlightenment period. There were vastly more great right-tail minds at work in Western Europe in recent centuries than there ever were in antiquity, simply by reason of the population number being greater by a big multiple.

    That makes a huge difference, and may be a reason why our achievements have vastly outnumbered and swamped those of any other earlier group. Exacerbating the effect is also the simple fact that non-Western civilizations simultaneously went into intellectual hibernation for the last five centuries. Speculation as to why that happened is likely fruitless, and also pointless.

    The West has been batting .400 for five centuries now and playing way more games than in earlier seasons, and the other players have basically been at zip in the same five century period.

    There’s a hell of a difference between “we invented everything” and “we’ve done best for the last 500 years”.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    In any event, the "white males need to go" narrative is shit, and I'd be happier with a "we invented everything" alternative than what we have now.
    , @PiltdownMan
    The difference is narrower if one considers that material comfort and economic growth resulting from technological progress appear to be the most commonplace measures of "we've done best."

    Roughly speaking, we have invented everything and we have done best, for the last 500 years.

    , @Unzerker
    We didn't only invent everything in the last 500 years. We invented pretty much everything in the last 800 years.

    I don't know where these 600 or 500 years comes from. Were there some important inventions elsewhere in the world when Europeans came up with glasses and mechanical clocks in the 12th century?
    , @anon

    There’s a hell of a difference between “we invented everything” and “we’ve done best for the last 500 years”.
     
    No there isn't.

    The graph of sum human knowledge went logarithmic in the last 500 years and euro-whites added 99% of it.

    It may well not be true in the next 500 years but it is true as of now.
    , @syonredux

    There’s a hell of a difference between “we invented everything” and “we’ve done best for the last 500 years”.
     
    I agree completely on that point.
    , @syonredux
    There have been roughly two peak periods of European scientific and cultural excellence:

    Greece, from roughly 700 BC to AD 300: Iliad and Odyssey, Plato, Aristotle, Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, Archimedes, Euclid, Diophantus, Hipparchus, Eratosthenes, etc

    The Western World, from roughly 1500 to present: Newton, Kant, Darwin, Leibniz, Galileo, Euler, René Descartes, Einstein, Watt, Edison, James Clerk Maxwell, Shakespeare, Tolstoy, Gibbs, Gauss, Beethoven, Rembrandt, Mozart, etc
    , @matt
    I also think accomplishments should be weighted by how early they occurred. Shoulders of giants and all that.
  63. OT. That Plomin fellow is at it again.

    http://medicalxpress.com/news/2016-07-scientists-herald-ability-academic-dna.html

    “Scientists herald ‘tipping point’ in ability to predict academic achievement from DNA.

    Scientists from King’s College London have used a new genetic scoring technique to predict academic achievement from DNA alone. This is the strongest prediction from DNA of a behavioural measure to date. “

    • Replies: @res

    That Plomin fellow is at it again.
     
    I think this is the paper:
    http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp2016107a.html
    , @Jack D

    This is the strongest prediction from DNA of a behavioural measure to date.
     
    That's not saying much - they were able to account for 10% of academic variation using 71 genes. Accounting for 10% of variation is little more than useless.
  64. @Former Darfur
    The most in demand microphones are still the Neumann/Telefunken U-47, U-87, and similar variants thereof, and the 1930s and 1940s RCA ribbon mics such as the 44 and 77.

    All designed by white guys.

    http://gizmodo.com/382389/the-neumann-microphone-approved-by-the-beatles-and-hitler
    http://www.coutant.org/ribbons.html

    The most in demand microphones are still the Neumann/Telefunken U-47, U-87, and similar variants thereof, and the 1930s and 1940s RCA ribbon mics such as the 44 and 77.

    These cost thousands, and originals manufactured in that era from 1935-1960 still command a premium in the used market and are treasured. In fact, many independent recording studios advertise their complement of special, old mics. They “voice” in a way many modern mics fail to. Think of the great jazz vocal and instrumental records from the 1950s and 1960s.

  65. @reiner Tor
    You could be right. A few points.

    1) Present-day Middle Easterners are only partially derived from ancient Middle Easterners. They have something like 5-10% recent (last 2ky) Sub-Saharan ancestry, another maybe 20 or 30% Peninsula Arab ancestry, some Central Asian or Mongol ancestry etc. In other words, those inventions were made by a population that does not exist any more, or maybe only fragments of it exist (like Alawites or Middle Eastern Christians etc.)

    2) Innovations need environment, too. Western Europeans had a much worse climate and so needed more time to domesticate plants or breed plants suited for the climate. The Middle Easterners had it all and then blew it, while Europeans went on to create modernity.

    3) You might be correct about the big picture, but we can talk about recent history and the present. Just exactly who else did invent modernity? Even in the present, other than the Japanese and Chinese and a few related ethnicities nobody else is capable of operating functioning first world societies, or innovating in hi tech. That's still a robust result.

    4) As to Murray's book, of course it has its limitations, but some of your complaints were addressed in the book itself, IIRC.

    (1) “those inventions were made by a population that does not exist any more”: true but irrelevant.

    (2) excuse-making.

    (3) straw man.

    (4) “some of your complaints were addressed in the book itself”: addressing problems is beside the point – did he solve them?

    • Replies: @Thucydides
    What are you, butthurt, little Ahmed? Deal with it: Europe was cold as fuck when the middle easterners invented agriculture. And the invention of modernity and the Industrial Revolution is the greatest achievememt in the whole history of mankind. It was also harder than inventing agriculture, which was a work of genius, but nowhere near the complexity of the inventions that predated and then lead to and followed the industrial revolution.

    If it wasn't for white people we wouldn't be able to communicate now. I want all those people who downplay the importance of the west to go live without electricity or running water. It's laughable.
  66. So according to Rep. King. Mr. Sailer, and all of the commenters here, civilization began 600 years ago?

    • Replies: @Yak-15
    If you ask anyone on the left they may say 10 years ago.
    , @Kyle a
    Just the good part of it Luminous. Just the good part
  67. @AaronB
    The irony is that modern progress over the last 600 years has been overwhelmingly the achievement of the hate object of modern progressives: dead white European males.

    And yet with all your intelligence and insight, Steve, it never occurred to you that this may not be ironic at all.

    Is it possible that people know what they hate, and hate it on purpose?

    Maybe people hate "modern proggress".

    It SEEMS like that's what white people are saying, almost screaming, but for some reason, no one is listening.

    What happened to Occams Butterknife? To reaching for complicated explanations when obvious ones are at hand? To noticing the ACTUAL behavior of white elites who pay vast sums to flee modern proggress by vacationing in exotic, primitive locale the moment they can, and living in old, pre modern neighborhoods, and any number of similar things?

    No, we must not notice these things, and we must be puzzled by the strange irony of whites hating the very people who brought them what they spend so much time fleeing.

    vacationing in exotic, primitive locale the moment they can, and living in old, pre modern neighborhoods, and any number of similar things?

    The primitive locale has modern technology there, without which nobody is going to these places. My wife is Vietnamese and having traveled in Vietnam I can tell you most people do not want to travel to places without a trace of modernity. People want to enjoy the climate (or maybe even the exoticness of the people and their architecture), but they want to do this while still being connected to modernity.

    living in old, pre modern neighborhoods

    Pre-modern architecture (this, actually, includes most of modern 19th century architecture and a lot of post-modern architecture as well) was better than some silly glass & steel thingy. Green lawn and trees etc. are beautiful, too, and you often cannot find them in most densely built (modern or pre-modern) neighborhoods, but it has very little to do with modernity per se. In Hungary I have seen poor villages with a lot of green and cheap housing where (at least until real estate developers notice) nobody wants to live (even though there are no Gypsies, the places are dying out, full of very old white Hungarians), but rich guys prefer bucolic scenes with broadband internet and fast roads or highways connecting them to the city.

    In other words, most people don’t want to escape modernity at all. They want to stay inside modernity, but with better architecture and climate and a lot of trees and lawn.

    • Replies: @anonymous

    The primitive locale has modern technology there, without which nobody is going to these places.
     
    Those 'back to nature' types never want to give up their cell phone toys or cars.
  68. @avraham
    After the Arab conquest of the Middle East, Arab blood got mixed up with everyone in those areas. That happened even in Greece and Spain. The original Greeks were blond hair blue eyes as we see in Homer and in all Roman and Greek histories from that period. The Persians were not related to Arabs but got mixed up after the Arabs conquered that region.
    India was settled by Persians who became the upper brahman class and made their discoveries.
    Algebra needless to say was well known to Euclid and Diophantus and in India.

    India was settled by Persians who became the upper brahman class and made their discoveries.

    Have you been reading some crappy fantasy genre? Or have you been smoking something really potent?

    • Replies: @avraham
    Thank you for your comment. To answer your question as to what my source is:

    "A study of mtDNA-haplogroup frequencies in southwestern and central Asia reported that the Brahui gene pool was more similar to that of Indo-Iranian speakers from southwest Asia than to that of Dravidian populations of India" (Quintana-Murci et al. 2004)

    See this link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1380230/?tool=pubmed

    I should mention that this is just one article but a lot of research has been done in this area in which the mtDNA supports the conclusion.

  69. @dearieme
    There's a hell of a difference between "we invented everything" and "we've done best for the last 500 years".

    In any event, the “white males need to go” narrative is shit, and I’d be happier with a “we invented everything” alternative than what we have now.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "In any event, the “white males need to go” narrative is shit..."

    As is "Jews control everything in America, and people are too stupid to realize it".

    As is "Black lives matters is the root cause for violent reprisals against cops".

    As is "White people created modernity--never minding how we accomplished it--and what the horrific things we did do, so did other groups, and it wasn't nearly as bad as them".

    As is "Only true white people remain with their own kind, and promote their own agenda, and never race mix, for that represents degeneracy".

    How do YOU feel about that last one in particular?
  70. @dearieme
    There's a hell of a difference between "we invented everything" and "we've done best for the last 500 years".

    The difference is narrower if one considers that material comfort and economic growth resulting from technological progress appear to be the most commonplace measures of “we’ve done best.”

    Roughly speaking, we have invented everything and we have done best, for the last 500 years.

  71. @Gabriel M
    To be fair, these two talking heads didn't have time to prepare a response. Let's look at what race-denialists can put together when they have time to gather their material.

    http://www.vox.com/2016/7/18/12218672/steve-king-racist-ignorant


    "The "cradles of civilization" were in areas populated by brown people.
    The Phoenician alphabet is the basis for the modern alphabet of many languages.
    Egyptians helped bring paper and ink pens to Western civilizations — just two of the many contributions attributable to them.
    Middle Eastern scholars like Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī and Omar Khayyam invented crucial elements of algebra before they spread to Europe.
    The Chinese invented gunpowder and potentially the compass, among many other inventions.
    Indian people made many contributions to technologies we now take for granted, from farming to math.
    America was built on the slave labor of black Americans.
    There were many famous black inventors throughout US history.
    Jesus was possibly brown."


    Take that honky!

    Jesus was possibly brown

    Actually, it would be weird if he wasn’t. He would have been a freak, and would have stuck out like a sore thumb. Or maybe the white supremacists think that he was, and perhaps he was crucified because of his surrounding society’s anti-white ideology?

    • Replies: @Gabriel M
    Arabs are considered white in the United States and Palestinians are pretty white relative to most Arabs and late-antique Jews/Palestinians were probably significantly whiter than them, given the admixture of southern Arabs and a bit of east Africa in the meantime.

    All in all, Jesus was probably abut as White as your average Greek, but that's hardly the point. If you are babbling about Papyrus and famous black inventors that no-one has ever heard of, then probably your refutation of King's argument sucks.

    , @Jack D
    He was probably about as "brown" as say Bashar Assad. Palestinians have a large admixture from the Arabian Peninsula and even a little African so they are somewhat brown, but the original inhabitants of the area would have been more white than brown. Not Nordic blond white but roughly in the same ballpark as other Mediterranean peoples.
  72. Charles Pierce is the guy who wrote the piece in the Boston Globe magazine that said (and I don’t believe it was irony, and I quote from memory) ” If Mary Jo Kopechne were alive today she’s appreciate all the programs that Ted Kennedy had brought into existence.”

    • Replies: @DCThrowback
    Nobody puts the "jerk" in knee-jerk liberal like Charlie Pierce. A fine writer, but a total partisan hack.

    It is funny to me though, that he bashed Simmons' book of basketball and then Simmons hired him at Grantland.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    One of the most despicable things I have ever heard.
  73. @avraham
    After the Arab conquest of the Middle East, Arab blood got mixed up with everyone in those areas. That happened even in Greece and Spain. The original Greeks were blond hair blue eyes as we see in Homer and in all Roman and Greek histories from that period. The Persians were not related to Arabs but got mixed up after the Arabs conquered that region.
    India was settled by Persians who became the upper brahman class and made their discoveries.
    Algebra needless to say was well known to Euclid and Diophantus and in India.

    Actually, from the extant paintings of that era, Minoans, Greeks etc pretty much uniformly depicted themselves with dark hair.

    • Replies: @Difference maker
    Minoans = pelasgians
  74. @avraham
    After the Arab conquest of the Middle East, Arab blood got mixed up with everyone in those areas. That happened even in Greece and Spain. The original Greeks were blond hair blue eyes as we see in Homer and in all Roman and Greek histories from that period. The Persians were not related to Arabs but got mixed up after the Arabs conquered that region.
    India was settled by Persians who became the upper brahman class and made their discoveries.
    Algebra needless to say was well known to Euclid and Diophantus and in India.

    You really should peruse Razib Khan’s archives in the parallel forum.

    There is a lot of recent DNA research that makes a lot of these older kinds of speculations about origins irrelevant and meaningless.

  75. @The Last Real Calvinist

    You bring up a good point about him not being articulate. There appear to be no pols with alt right leanings that are good speakers except for Trump.That’s a problem. If I said what King said to some of my conservative relatives and friends they would think it’s racist too. The reason is we just don’t have good speakers who can get these ideas across, or in this case just get facts across.

     

    It's very hard. Actual political views/speech content aside, you need someone who's quick-witted (i.e. who can recognize and seize opportunities); who's articulate (i.e. who speaks in complete sentences, with a bit of subtlety and cunning); and who can keep his cool and/or use anger tactically and effectively in the face of sputtering outrage and ad hominem attacks coming at him from all sides, especially from the 'neutral' moderator who holds the metaphorical mic and can cut him off. And then he's got to have the perseverence/endurance to come back and do this again and again and again without slipping up.

    Mark Steyn has all the rhetorical skills I've set out above, but there are few like him around.

    Milo and Coulter to name two with proven track records of holding their own against hostile leftards.

  76. @Numinous

    India was settled by Persians who became the upper brahman class and made their discoveries.
     
    Have you been reading some crappy fantasy genre? Or have you been smoking something really potent?

    Thank you for your comment. To answer your question as to what my source is:

    “A study of mtDNA-haplogroup frequencies in southwestern and central Asia reported that the Brahui gene pool was more similar to that of Indo-Iranian speakers from southwest Asia than to that of Dravidian populations of India” (Quintana-Murci et al. 2004)

    See this link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1380230/?tool=pubmed

    I should mention that this is just one article but a lot of research has been done in this area in which the mtDNA supports the conclusion.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It's pretty much 'set in stone' now that the 'Aryans' who invaded India were closely related to the people of the 'Sintashta' and 'Andronovo' archaeological horizons, of central Asia, who had European genetic affinities.
  77. Representative Steve King could’ve said something
    very simple but effective, for example, “You take away trains,
    planes, automobiles, refrigerators, radio, television,
    movies, computers, telephones, microscopes, telescopes,
    rockets, antibiotics, washing machines, etc – all invented
    by white men – and what have you got? Not much.”

  78. The signature of low-frequency western Eurasian mtDNA lineages in India was interpreted (Kivisild et al. 1999) to support the hypothesis that Dravidian farmers arrived in India from the Middle East (Renfrew 1996)

  79. @Lurker
    Just a theory.

    Anyone with those skills and the right political views will rarely be allowed on the MSM in the first place, people like must exist but they never get the chance to hone their skills, to be really at ease on camera. Whereas leftist talking heads may be on TV/radio constantly, speaking truth to power on a regular basis. They will be used to the format, the presentation etc.

    Good point. Maybe it’s different now, but when I used to watch TV, any white nationalist ever invited on a show seemed just this side of retarded.

  80. @The Last Real Calvinist

    I remember reading Robert Novak a dozen years back on the Iowa re-gerrymander, who described it as a “Frankenstein” district inadvertently created by shoring up the state’s Democrats.
     
    King's district (which includes Republican bastion Sioux County) used to comprise just the western edge of Iowa, which is reliably conservative. But then Iowa dropped from five to four congressmen in 2013, and King's district was rezoned to include areas that are much farther east. The result is a district that's not quite smoothly symmetrical, but not that bad compared to some states. His new district includes Story County, the home of Ames/Iowa State University, which doesn't help his reelection campaigns.

    Before that, i.e. when Novak was writing, the western Iowa district was about as geographically contiguous as you will find. I'm not sure what made it a 'Frankenstein' district.

    You can see the recent history of Iowa's congressional districts here.

    Do you remember the viral video of Rand Paul running away from the collegiate (illegal) immigration activists at in Okijoba, IA in 2015?

    The guy who stuck around to clean up Rand’s mess was Steve MF’ing King.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    Rep. King: "Use your objective reasoning skills."

    Mexican chick: bla bla bla bla bla. [Translation: I have none.]
  81. @Ganderson
    Charles Pierce is the guy who wrote the piece in the Boston Globe magazine that said (and I don't believe it was irony, and I quote from memory) " If Mary Jo Kopechne were alive today she's appreciate all the programs that Ted Kennedy had brought into existence."

    Nobody puts the “jerk” in knee-jerk liberal like Charlie Pierce. A fine writer, but a total partisan hack.

    It is funny to me though, that he bashed Simmons’ book of basketball and then Simmons hired him at Grantland.

  82. @Steve Sailer
    Steyn's hugely gifted, but he lives in New Hampshire so he can't do big time TV all that regularly. You pretty much have to live in New York or Washington (or Atlanta if you are on CNN) or L.A. (if you are more entertainment than news).

    A long time ago I was counting up how many times I'd been on TV and I came up with around ten. I estimated back then then I'd need to be on TV at least 100 times to make any progress toward being recognizable, and I now think that was an underestimate.

    And TV appearances generally don't pay.

    A quick check on YouTube brings up only one clip of you on TV. Maybe you should track down the rest and upload them.

  83. @Trelane
    A 1000 year dark ages looms before Western man. Our kind is doomed.

    All kinds are doomed.

  84. @PiltdownMan

    Wilson Greatbatch, a White man, invented the pacemaker.
     


    Richards and Mason, two White men, invented the peacemaker.

    Following on from Mr Colt’s work for equality.

  85. @Numinous

    Jesus was possibly brown
     
    Actually, it would be weird if he wasn't. He would have been a freak, and would have stuck out like a sore thumb. Or maybe the white supremacists think that he was, and perhaps he was crucified because of his surrounding society's anti-white ideology?

    Arabs are considered white in the United States and Palestinians are pretty white relative to most Arabs and late-antique Jews/Palestinians were probably significantly whiter than them, given the admixture of southern Arabs and a bit of east Africa in the meantime.

    All in all, Jesus was probably abut as White as your average Greek, but that’s hardly the point. If you are babbling about Papyrus and famous black inventors that no-one has ever heard of, then probably your refutation of King’s argument sucks.

  86. @Anonymous
    'what about africa'

    yeah, what about it?

    In this case when she says “what about Africa” she will probably go on to cite things that the Egyptians invented or built. This, of course, despite the fact that Egyptian are not sub Sahara Africans similar to herself. Many blacks really do believe, unbelievably to me, that ancient Egypt was some amazing black paradise. It’s bizarre.

    • Replies: @anonitron1
    The black Cleopatra crowd is an entertaining and mostly harmless substratum of the duskier parts of the internet, but I do remember that the Dallas cop-killer was a member.

    Comments section bickering about the Nubian dynasties is always a good time, though. I recommend bringing up that lower Nile east Africans don't look a thing like the immense majority of American blacks.
    , @tbraton
    "This, of course, despite the fact that Egyptian are not sub Sahara Africans similar to herself. Many blacks really do believe, unbelievably to me, that ancient Egypt was some amazing black paradise. It’s bizarre."

    A quite similar phenomenon occurs with respect to current events. A few days ago I caught Megyn Kelly interviewing a black activist about the various police killings. He kept bringing up the Michael Brown incident in Ferguson, Missouri and stressing the fact that Brown was "unarmed." This frustrated Ms. Kelly who had to point out repeatedly that Brown had attempted to take officer Wilson's handgun away from him and that both the local grand jury and the US DOJ had failed to indict officer Wilson after reviewing all the facts. No matter how many times Ms. Kelly pointed out the facts, her guest failed to concede and kept insisting that Brown was "unarmed." Finally, she had to declare the "interview" over. Dialogue is not possible when either side adamantly refuses to concede indisputable facts, whether you are talking about past history or current events.
  87. @szopen
    I am not sure what are "notable" definitions. I searched for several known Polish scientists, mathematicians, philosophers, and not a single appeared in the data: Łukasiewicz, Kotarbiński, Tarski, Witelo, Mandelbrot (well, this one was Jewish born in Warsaw), steinhaus, ulam, ajdukiewicz, czochralski, czekanowski, koneczny, hirszfeld, malinowski, sierpiński. I mean it seems that their contributions were at least comparable if not greater, than some of the people included in Murray's list (like, for example, Ansel Adams - or why Lumiere brothers but no Prószyński?)

    The first one which appeared was Banach

    If you are keeping score , Steinhaus, Ulam and Hirszfeld were also Jewish.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Tarski, born Teitelbaum.
  88. @Anonymous
    Rep. Steve King shouldn't be allowed to use any inventions created by people who are not white. No elevators, no microphones, no pacemakers

    I’ll bet the hypocritical bastard enjoys a peanut butter sandwich too, when nobody is looking.

    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @tbraton
    In the absence of a LOL key, which I understand Ron Unz is working on, I will merely say "LOL."
    , @Honorary Thief
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcellus_Gilmore_Edson
  89. @avraham
    What do you call "white?" If you include Jewish people from Eastern Europe and Russian people, then that is 100% of progress. But if you do not include Jews and Slavs from Russia then a lot would be lost.

    Notice how all the Jews who Invent Things look like White German Males?

    Honey babes, the Jews were *admittedly* smart and hijacked the best of Germanic DNA.

    But make no mistake…that ‘greatness’ is Germanic Christian DNA at heart.

    You don’t see a lot of dark-arab-skinned Orthodox types doing a lot of progressin’.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Sorry, no. Jews look like Germans only to the extent that a lot of Germans don't look like Germans. Ashkenazi Jews have a big European DNA component but it's southern European, not Germanic. The intermixing occurred long before the Jews showed up in Northern Europe.

    However, Jews can thank the German speaking educational system for their contributions. Before you-know-who, German universities were the finest in the world and attracted the best scholars, some of whom were Jewish. The Jewish educational system created some great thinkers, but unfortunately they spent all of their time concerned with questions like what do you do with an egg that was laid on Sabbath instead of on the structure of the atom. It was only when Jews were allowed (and wanted) to join the Western mainstream that you had this Big Bang explosion as Jewish brains applied themselves to Western problems.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    It's like another kind of one-drop-rule.
    , @Bee
    "But make no mistake…that ‘greatness’ is Germanic Christian DNA at heart."

    Right, duh, except for the fact that Jews have won way more Nobel Prizes, per capita, than non-Jewish Germans have. Not much of a chicken/egg argument there.

    By the way, Ashkenazi Jews are one of the most genetically homogeneous ethnic groups out there, whether Orthodox or not. You can lie, lie, lie and make up all the non-existent genealogy stories you want, but facts are facts.
  90. @dearieme
    There's a hell of a difference between "we invented everything" and "we've done best for the last 500 years".

    We didn’t only invent everything in the last 500 years. We invented pretty much everything in the last 800 years.

    I don’t know where these 600 or 500 years comes from. Were there some important inventions elsewhere in the world when Europeans came up with glasses and mechanical clocks in the 12th century?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Europeans probably got the compass, paper, and gunpowder from China during the Mongol era. The Chinese had some insane tech like natural gas drilling. But they didn't seem to have much sense of cumulative progress. They sort of assumed that when the dynasty fell into chaos that they'd have to start over again.
    , @NOTA
    Yes. I don't think Europe looked especially advanced in 1300 AD. Probably not more than China, India, Persia, or the Ottoman Empire.
  91. @Gabriel M
    To be fair, these two talking heads didn't have time to prepare a response. Let's look at what race-denialists can put together when they have time to gather their material.

    http://www.vox.com/2016/7/18/12218672/steve-king-racist-ignorant


    "The "cradles of civilization" were in areas populated by brown people.
    The Phoenician alphabet is the basis for the modern alphabet of many languages.
    Egyptians helped bring paper and ink pens to Western civilizations — just two of the many contributions attributable to them.
    Middle Eastern scholars like Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī and Omar Khayyam invented crucial elements of algebra before they spread to Europe.
    The Chinese invented gunpowder and potentially the compass, among many other inventions.
    Indian people made many contributions to technologies we now take for granted, from farming to math.
    America was built on the slave labor of black Americans.
    There were many famous black inventors throughout US history.
    Jesus was possibly brown."


    Take that honky!

    I thought this was a joke list, considering the referenced North African/Middle Easteners were largely Caucasoid; the Chinese “potentially”(?) invented the compass.

    What’s brought us here is the intersection between radical egalitarianism and Black narcissism: our prominent political discourse has a crossroads at “everybody’s equal” and “Black people are superior in every way if we can just stop the lies”, so we get the *hate Whitey* syndrome, which seems to please both camps.

  92. @szopen
    I am not sure what are "notable" definitions. I searched for several known Polish scientists, mathematicians, philosophers, and not a single appeared in the data: Łukasiewicz, Kotarbiński, Tarski, Witelo, Mandelbrot (well, this one was Jewish born in Warsaw), steinhaus, ulam, ajdukiewicz, czochralski, czekanowski, koneczny, hirszfeld, malinowski, sierpiński. I mean it seems that their contributions were at least comparable if not greater, than some of the people included in Murray's list (like, for example, Ansel Adams - or why Lumiere brothers but no Prószyński?)

    The first one which appeared was Banach

    You could add Count Alfred Korzybski, born and
    raised in Poland, and famous as the creator of General
    Semantics (1933), (not the most felicitous name) to
    your list. Most people have heard of
    his maxim “The map is not the territory,”
    and his insistence that non-Aristotelian
    logic (e.g., treating the word ‘is’ with extreme caution)
    provides a better map of the flux of reality than
    traditional logic. In the 1930s -’40s America Korzybski
    was more famous than Einstein. Some of us
    remember his famous disciple, S.I. Hayakawa
    (popularized by the media as someone who in the ’60s
    fought campus activists at San Jose State) who
    did much to spread the word of the master.

    General Semantics influenced the development
    of Neuro-Linguistic Programming and Dianetics.
    It seems like the twentieth century had many
    prophetic figures who tried to lift humanity
    from its sorry condition – Bertrand Russell, Carl
    Jung, Alfred Korzybski, Krishnamurti, Gandhi,
    Maharishi (creator of TM), Helen Schucman
    (scribe of A Course in Miracles, often called
    the Third Testament), and Mari Perron (scribe
    of A Course of Love)

    • Replies: @Jack D

    In the 1930s -’40s America Korzybski was more famous than Einstein
     
    Do you have any support for this? Even if this was true (which it ain't) how do account for the fact that Korzybski has fallen into near total obscurity while Einstein remains one of the towering figures of the 20th century?
    , @yowza

    You could add Count Alfred Korzybski, born and
    raised in Poland, and famous as the creator of General
    Semantics (1933), (not the most felicitous name) to
    your list. Most people have heard of
    his maxim “The map is not the territory,”
    and his insistence that non-Aristotelian
    logic (e.g., treating the word ‘is’ with extreme caution)
    provides a better map of the flux of reality than
    traditional logic.
     
    So THAT'S where Clinton got that from!

    So, it turn's out, he had engaged in an intense dialectical exchange in which he skillfully applied non-Aristotelian logic, casting the subject of the argument as a kind of Schrödinger's Penis.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHlt1W83JFU

    All this time, I just thought he was being a douche.

    I learn so many neat things on this site.
    , @Mr. Anon
    "In the 1930s -’40s America Korzybski was more famous than Einstein."

    A remarkable non-fact. Do you have any other remarkable non-factual assertions to amaze us with?

    "Some of us remember his famous disciple, S.I. Hayakawa (popularized by the media as someone who in the ’60s fought campus activists at San Jose State) who did much to spread the word of the master."

    Actually, it was San Francisco State. But I guess we have no reason to expect you to be any more right on that than anything else you have said.

    "General Semantics influenced the development of Neuro-Linguistic Programming and Dianetics."

    Dianetics? Gee, you mean we have him to thank for scientology too? Yeah, he sounds like a real benefactor of humanity.
  93. @Trelane
    A 1000 year dark ages looms before Western man. Our kind is doomed.

    I guess we’ve seen what Man can achieve. And why we can’t sustain it.

    • Replies: @JSM
    I guess this is the answer to the Fermi Paradox:

    When an intelligent species has evolved sufficiently that one of its subspecies
    starts inventing all the technology necessary to escape the gravity well of its home planet, the less-capable subspecies, in their jealousy, browbeat the inventive subspecies into breeding itself out of existence.

    And the whole muddled mess devolves back into pond slime.

    So, the tragedy is, the Great Filter is before us, not behind us. And that filter is Pathological Altruism.
  94. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I always think to myself that things, the artifacts, inventions, discoveries, if you will, etc etc that REALLY make a difference to our lives, lest that the vast bulk of the population who would not be privileged to be ‘lords’ in the alternate society that would, inevitably, establish itself by necessity , and live lives little much removed from that of a beast-of-burden, are due, wholly and exclusively, to the white man – and the white man alone.

    First of all one thinks of the steam engine. Sans steam engine, a world sans tap water and sewerage, to quote but one example.
    Then we have electricity and the exploitation thereof.
    Then you have the internal combustion engine and automobiles of all types.
    Add in powered iron ships.
    Automated looms, sewing machines.
    Refrigerators,
    And lastly and leastly toys such as your TV and tablet.

    Of course a myriad more examples are to be easily conjured up.

    Even toilet paper, that unmentionable but indispensable adjunct to life is only possible with steam engined or some such to ‘grind up the trees’.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    The Romans had water and sewage systems 2,000 years ago without steam engines. Gravity is your friend.

    Before there were steam engines, there was water power. For stationary machinery, anything that you can do with a steam engine you can do with water power (or wind) The first automated looms ran on water power and for sewing machines human power was adequate.

    However, water and wind power is only present in certain places and in limited quantity. Quantity has its own quality - steam (followed by electricity and the internal combustion engine) allowed an explosion (no pun intended) of industrial production and its application to transportation (rail, steamboat) was even more revolutionary than in stationary applications.

    The total output of an industrial system is largely a function of the energy inputs. The discovery of fossil fuels and of effective methods to convert heat to motion greatly increased the available energy inputs.
    , @Unzerker

    Even toilet paper, that unmentionable but indispensable adjunct to life is only possible with steam engined or some such to ‘grind up the trees’.
     
    The first water powered paper mill dates from the 12th century. European of course.

    Europe made extensively use of water and wind powered machines before the invention of the steam engine. It's partly because of this that steam engines become so popular. They could switch to a more reliable source to power their complex machines.

    In China and India everything was done by hand so there really was no use for a steam engine if the first place.
    , @Anonymous
    Yep.

    Without whitey, not only you wouldn't be able to eat - no artificial fertilizers or pesticides - you wouldn't be able to 'magically' flush away your excrement, as if it 'vanishes', and (excuse the vulgarity), wipe your ass.
    One wonders that in some of today's horrid ant-hill like mass population conurbations, whitey can be blamed for their teeming billions too that excepting the mass, bulk manufacture of paper from ground down trees, would there ever be another 'abundant fibrous matter' about to serve as what the Brits called 'bum-fodder'?

    Curious and overlooked.
  95. What scares these people is not whether this is or isn’t the last time that White men dominate the Republican Party, it’s that White men are starting to become unapologetic about being White and aren’t willing to keep playing their assigned role in the New World Order. Just look at how triggered that black woman was. That was worth the price of admission.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Wrong. If white people are lashing back, it's only because they have been backed into a corner. Those shouting at King were not scared, they were shocked and angry that there was a rear guard who still had the temerity to speak publicly when they thought that their victory was complete and no longer up for grabs. If your side is the winning side, it makes no difference whether what you believe is total nonsense on stilts or not - might makes right. It was as if a Czarist had stood up to rebut a Stalin speech. They were no longer capable of offering a coherent rebuttal because they were out of practice and anyway their anger took over. Can't we just drag this reactionary straggler off and shoot him out back?
  96. @avraham
    Thank you for your comment. To answer your question as to what my source is:

    "A study of mtDNA-haplogroup frequencies in southwestern and central Asia reported that the Brahui gene pool was more similar to that of Indo-Iranian speakers from southwest Asia than to that of Dravidian populations of India" (Quintana-Murci et al. 2004)

    See this link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1380230/?tool=pubmed

    I should mention that this is just one article but a lot of research has been done in this area in which the mtDNA supports the conclusion.

    It’s pretty much ‘set in stone’ now that the ‘Aryans’ who invaded India were closely related to the people of the ‘Sintashta’ and ‘Andronovo’ archaeological horizons, of central Asia, who had European genetic affinities.

  97. @Unzerker
    We didn't only invent everything in the last 500 years. We invented pretty much everything in the last 800 years.

    I don't know where these 600 or 500 years comes from. Were there some important inventions elsewhere in the world when Europeans came up with glasses and mechanical clocks in the 12th century?

    Europeans probably got the compass, paper, and gunpowder from China during the Mongol era. The Chinese had some insane tech like natural gas drilling. But they didn’t seem to have much sense of cumulative progress. They sort of assumed that when the dynasty fell into chaos that they’d have to start over again.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Eastern philosophy held views radically diverse from the Western.

    Greek philosophy -> Abrahamic monotheism -> the vainglorious idea that there's evil and good [and we, id est our Gods on our behalf] can judge what's the former and what's the latter, that things can be changed, humans have free will and can deserve penalty, or reward..., and there'll be progress... because not only they are cool, but also they'll get cooler and cooler.

    Hindu and Chinese philosophies were concerned with accepting all reality as it is, and that we have no special place in the order of reality. "They didn’t seem to have much sense of cumulative progress."

    Currently, all the world has converted to the Western... mindset.
    , @Anonymous
    Eastern philosophy held views radically diverse from the Western.

    Greek philosophy -> Abrahamic monotheism -> the vainglorious idea that there's evil and good [and we, id est our Gods on our behalf] can judge what's the former and what's the latter, that things can be changed, humans have free will and can deserve penalty, or reward..., and there'll be progress... because not only they are cool, but also they'll get cooler and cooler.

    Hindu and Chinese philosophies were concerned with accepting all reality as it is, and that we have no special place in the order of reality. "They didn’t seem to have much sense of cumulative progress."

    Currently, all the world has converted to the Western... mindset.
    , @Daniel Williams

    The Chinese had some insane tech like natural gas drilling. But they didn’t seem to have much sense of cumulative progress. They sort of assumed that when the dynasty fell into chaos that they’d have to start over again.
     
    Do you think that Pournelle and Niven might have based some aspects of the Motie civilization on this?
    , @melendwyr
    And of course China fell into a marked intellectual and artistic stagnation. Not only were they entirely dominated by tradition, they forgot techniques and methods earlier generations had developed. Perspective was developed by the Chinese long before the West did, but it fell out of favor and was completely forgotten. It took Vatican missionaries examining the Imperial Archives to find evidence of the artistic styles that China had forgotten.

    The most technically advanced society in all the world didn't collapse, it stopped dead, ceasing to change for good or for ill. It viewed everything outside it as hopeless barbarianism, and its own customs as the only right way. It'd be that way still if stupid profit-seeking Westerners hadn't broken it open. And even now it's finding it quite difficult to establish its own scientific research base. There are plenty of highly intelligent people, but somehow they don't innovate much. Whether this is cultural, genetic, or a mix of both, I can't guess.
  98. @dearieme
    (1) "those inventions were made by a population that does not exist any more": true but irrelevant.

    (2) excuse-making.

    (3) straw man.

    (4) "some of your complaints were addressed in the book itself": addressing problems is beside the point - did he solve them?

    What are you, butthurt, little Ahmed? Deal with it: Europe was cold as fuck when the middle easterners invented agriculture. And the invention of modernity and the Industrial Revolution is the greatest achievememt in the whole history of mankind. It was also harder than inventing agriculture, which was a work of genius, but nowhere near the complexity of the inventions that predated and then lead to and followed the industrial revolution.

    If it wasn’t for white people we wouldn’t be able to communicate now. I want all those people who downplay the importance of the west to go live without electricity or running water. It’s laughable.

    • Replies: @Numinous

    If it wasn’t for white people we wouldn’t be able to communicate now.
     
    Now that you mention communication, there's an Indian dude who has a decent claim to discovering radio comm. around the same time as Marconi, but never bothered to patent it.
  99. @Jack D
    If you are keeping score , Steinhaus, Ulam and Hirszfeld were also Jewish.

    Tarski, born Teitelbaum.

    • Replies: @Big Bill
    Cousin of Joel? Is Tarski his "lab name"?
    , @Old Palo Altan
    My (Jewish) advisor when I was a philosophy major at Berkeley in the late '60s was angry with Tarski for
    1) having converted to Catholicism;
    2) refusing to self-identify as Jewish in any way at all.
  100. @Numinous
    So according to Rep. King. Mr. Sailer, and all of the commenters here, civilization began 600 years ago?

    If you ask anyone on the left they may say 10 years ago.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    The prog-left mantra of the moment is: Everything before yesterday is wrong.
  101. @AaronB
    The irony is that modern progress over the last 600 years has been overwhelmingly the achievement of the hate object of modern progressives: dead white European males.

    And yet with all your intelligence and insight, Steve, it never occurred to you that this may not be ironic at all.

    Is it possible that people know what they hate, and hate it on purpose?

    Maybe people hate "modern proggress".

    It SEEMS like that's what white people are saying, almost screaming, but for some reason, no one is listening.

    What happened to Occams Butterknife? To reaching for complicated explanations when obvious ones are at hand? To noticing the ACTUAL behavior of white elites who pay vast sums to flee modern proggress by vacationing in exotic, primitive locale the moment they can, and living in old, pre modern neighborhoods, and any number of similar things?

    No, we must not notice these things, and we must be puzzled by the strange irony of whites hating the very people who brought them what they spend so much time fleeing.

    Maybe people hate “modern proggress”

    And maybe they don’t. I notice that when people vote with their feet, they head toward “proggress”.

    • Agree: Clyde
    • Replies: @Clyde

    And maybe they don’t. I notice that when people vote with their feet, they head toward “progress”.
     
    What would a third world woman consider progress but people here take for granted?
    - A refrigerator with a reliable supply of electricity
    - A washing machine
    - An electric or gas stove.... no more gathering wood or scrounging other fuels
    - modern childbirth facilities
    - modern medicines for babies and children

    Repeating .... Americans take a lot for granted. I would like to airdrop these BLM complainers into a third world nation to marinate for a few years. Dittos for the ethnomasochist white kids who follow them around.

  102. Looks like Boomer’s won’t have to worry about shutting off the lights when we leave. Our minorities/new majority will be beating the hell out of each other trying to keep the lights on. Didn’t work for Rome.

    America was a good idea while it lasted. Never thought I’d see this shit in my lifetime. Damned shame:

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/07/biggest-share-of-whites-in-u-s-are-boomers-but-for-minority-groups-its-millennials-or-younger/

  103. […] Steve King has finally broken the politically correct ice in modern (that is, post-1970s) mainstream discourse, defending the superiority of Western […]

  104. @reiner Tor

    vacationing in exotic, primitive locale the moment they can, and living in old, pre modern neighborhoods, and any number of similar things?
     
    The primitive locale has modern technology there, without which nobody is going to these places. My wife is Vietnamese and having traveled in Vietnam I can tell you most people do not want to travel to places without a trace of modernity. People want to enjoy the climate (or maybe even the exoticness of the people and their architecture), but they want to do this while still being connected to modernity.

    living in old, pre modern neighborhoods
     
    Pre-modern architecture (this, actually, includes most of modern 19th century architecture and a lot of post-modern architecture as well) was better than some silly glass & steel thingy. Green lawn and trees etc. are beautiful, too, and you often cannot find them in most densely built (modern or pre-modern) neighborhoods, but it has very little to do with modernity per se. In Hungary I have seen poor villages with a lot of green and cheap housing where (at least until real estate developers notice) nobody wants to live (even though there are no Gypsies, the places are dying out, full of very old white Hungarians), but rich guys prefer bucolic scenes with broadband internet and fast roads or highways connecting them to the city.

    In other words, most people don't want to escape modernity at all. They want to stay inside modernity, but with better architecture and climate and a lot of trees and lawn.

    The primitive locale has modern technology there, without which nobody is going to these places.

    Those ‘back to nature’ types never want to give up their cell phone toys or cars.

  105. @Jasper Been
    "Robin Fox and Lionel Tiger" = wtf?!

    Early semi-sociobiologists from the late 60’s- early 70’s I believe. Their fame was later overshadowed by the likes of Wilson and Dawkins follwing the publication of the books Sociobiology and The Selfish Gene in the mid 70’s. And yes, those are their real names, believe it or not.

  106. I’ve decided to dub this phenomenon of white men finally snapping, rejecting the denigration of their superior heritage, the Tubman Effect.

    https://benkurtzblog.wordpress.com/the-tubman-effect/

    In unrelated news, British researchers have finally declared a tipping point in the ability to use DNA testing to predict academic success.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3697029/Can-DNA-reveal-exams-Scientists-pinpoint-genes-used-predict-academic-achievement.html

    • Replies: @Jack D
    It's a catchy title, but maybe I'm dense - I don't get the connection.
  107. Too many people to respond to, so just some quick observations:

    1. King probably had the Renaissance in mind, ca. 1350, so 600 years will do.

    2. Jews are white, get over it. By the same token, the enormous contributions made by Jews occurred within the context of (at least culturally) Christian nations over the past 200 years.

    3. The claim of “white guys” for the past 600 years has nothing to do with the development of the wheel, fire, the six simple machines, the zero, or any of that stuff. People have to stop hyperventilating. It’s like a Cubs fan talking about winning the World Series in 1908. So what.

    4. Murray’s book is especially flawed when it comes to culture (i.e., literature, music, philosophy), but then his book is based on how many column inches are devoted to particular people in standard reference works and then works backwards from that. Hence, little space devoted to prominent Poles, and many other ethnic groups.

    5. From the point of view of engineering and applied science, particularly medicine, agriculture, and chemistry, Europe and America win hands down, it doesn’t matter whose books you are citing or what language they are in.

    6. There is no question that the modern scientific method, the Industrial Revolution, and all of the inventions and developments flowing out of that was almost entirely developed by Europeans and Americans, both overwhelmingly white, Christian, and male.

    7. I don’t see any point in getting into an argument about “whose team” won more Gold Medals at this point; that’s not the issue, and such squabbling just gets in the way. Anyone who is interested in the development of engineering and technology, science and medicine, and so on, for the past 1,000 years knows where it comes from: Europe and the United States. That doesn’t mean that there “cannot ” be an alternative universe of black women with hispanic surnames doing all of this stuff. Of course, there can. The point however is that they have not, and what was done was done by dead white guys. So the point holds.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    That doesn’t mean that there “cannot ” be an alternative universe of black women with hispanic surnames doing all of this stuff. Of course, there can.
     
    As long as in that alternate universe, black women had a 30 point IQ advantage vs. Ashkenazi Jews and 15 points on whites in general. In the universe that WE live in, it's the other way 'round so you could replay the last 600 years a thousand times and the result would be the same. The DNA dice are loaded so whitey wins every time.
  108. @The Last Real Calvinist

    It’s too bad Trump can’t just choose a “champion” like Steyn or Nigel Farage to debate in his place.

     

    This is something that's always mystified me: why does Barack Obama choose someone who can barely form a sentence (such as Josh Earnest) to be his White House Press Secretary?

    I think it shows how much faithful adherence to pushing the narrative trumps rhetorical skills, even at the highest political levels.

    Probably because the object of the exercise is to not reveal information under questioning. It’s a misinformation campaign, focused primarily in not disturbing the narratives concocted by the Democrats’ partners in the news and entertainment media. Bumbling non-speak accomplishes this.

    • Replies: @MC
    Right, the reason that Mark Steyn debates so well is that he has thoughtful, considered positions on the issues and is honest and passionate about them. All of those attributes are undesirable in a paid flack who goes to peddle the company line to the media.
    , @Forbes
    It's all about The Narrative. As Josh Earnest proves every time at the podium. As the contretemps about King's comments demonstrate.

    As (near) every comment in this thread demonstrates. No one has demonstrated the falsity of King's observations--it's about the context and nuance of the underlying circumstances--proving again, it is the (narrow) exception(s) that proves the general rule.

    But today's Narrative is that everyone everywhere are (and were for all time) equally capable and inventive. Because feelingz. Because self-esteem. Can't upset The Narrative.
  109. Frantic yelling ensued, with the panelists speaking over one another.

    You’ll never see anybody yelling, franticly, in front of anything but a truth.

    “What about Africa? What about Asia?” April Ryan, a reporter on the panel, said.

    April Ryan respected alphabetical order. You’ve got start from Africa.

  110. King is correct in his observations, but I don’t get the value of racial self-congratulations. They accomplish what objective in a political context?

    And Charles Murray is a gas-bag who merely recycles the sames observations over and over about the lazy and stupid cretins from the left side of the Bell Curve while condescendingly self-congratulating that he is not one of them.

    BTW, Murray is paid over $300 Grand by AEI for his one-trick musings. Not bad scratch for just showing up and bloviating. The Hispanic immigrants who mow his lawn actually generate more real value in week than Murray has generated in his Crony funded career of stating the obvious.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    I don’t get the value of racial self-congratulations.
     
    I don't either but non-whites congratulate themselves a thousand times a day so there must be some value in it. Why are whites, who are the ones with the most to crow about, the only ones who are not permitted to play this game?

    They accomplish what objective in a political context?

     

    What was the objective of the little boy who said that the emperor had no clothes? Havel taught us the value of living in truth, even if it is politically not wise at the moment.

    The Hispanic immigrants who mow his lawn actually generate more real value in week than Murray has generated in his Crony funded career of stating the obvious.
     
    If what Murray is saying is so damn obvious, why are there so many people out there shouting him down and calling him names? What may seem obvious to you seems like heresy to true believers in the prevailing system of radical egalitarianism.
    , @anon

    King is correct in his observations, but I don’t get the value of racial self-congratulations. They accomplish what objective in a political context?
     
    White kids are being psychologically abused in the schools by their SJW teachers leading to self-harming behavior.
    , @Lurker

    I don’t get the value of racial self-congratulations. They accomplish what objective in a political context?
     
    That's very high minded of you. However the white left/lib chorus on behalf of their non-white clients have no such qualms. This whole WPo thread, more than 2k comments, consists almost entirely of them strutting up and down squawking the spectacular achievements of all manner of non-white groups. Not to "set the record straight" but to emphasise the irrelevance and redundancy of white people.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/18/rep-steve-king-wonders-what-sub-groups-besides-whites-made-contributions-to-civilization/#comments

    I and few others did our best but we were swamped (there were only 1.5k comments when I joined in)
  111. @Anonymous
    Rep. Steve King shouldn't be allowed to use any inventions created by people who are not white. No elevators, no microphones, no pacemakers

    And peanut butter. Don’t forget peanut butter. So (even conceding your list, which is dubious) you have elevators, microphones, pacemakers, (peanut butter) vs. EVERY OTHER DAMN THING.

    The point is, you are totally allowed to hate on white people – can’t wait until all those old white people are dead and no longer in charge. It’s a perfectly acceptable sentiment to express. But if you say anything that is the teeny tiniest bit negative about non-whites or express that Western culture is has made greater contributions, then Nelly bar the door – you’re a racis’. So it’s really not possible to have a “conversation” when one side is free to express its thoughts but the other side is pre-constrained even before they are allowed to open their mouth.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    I have a lot of admiration for George Washington Carver, who spent a lot of his life researching peanuts, but he didn't invent peanut butter, either. The special pleading that crops up in these kinds of arguments is painfully obvious; maybe more painful than obvious.
    , @Corvinus
    "But if you say anything that is the teeny tiniest bit negative about non-whites or express that Western culture is has made greater contributions, then Nelly bar the door – you’re a racis’"

    Did those European and American inventors proclaim "whites rule" upon their discoveries, fist bumping their associates, or did they simply state that their innovations were to benefit human kind, and that their technology was first and foremost invented by [insert their ethnic group here]?

    What's the point to say that white people are squarely responsible for progress and modernity, when those on the Alt-Right and neoreactionaries say those same inventions, technological and ideological, are responsible for our current global mess? Did not "white" people "invent" such things as communism, imperialism, computer hacking, and drones?

    , @Chrisnonymous
    It's true--when all the old whites are gone, good riddance. AI will take over inventing and then all the brown folks won't notice the difference. But the AI won't take them any more seriously than "WN"s.
    , @Dew

    And peanut butter. Don’t forget peanut butter. So (even conceding your list, which is dubious) you have elevators, microphones, pacemakers, (peanut butter) vs. EVERY OTHER DAMN THING.
     
    Not even. George Washington Carver sure as hell did not invent peanut butter. He just a standard botanist. His experiments with peanut generally produced meager and impractical gains.

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/256246/thread/1088896552/last-1088896552/George+Washington+Carver-+The+Making+of+a+Myth
  112. @AaronB
    Sure, and indoor plumbing is pretty neat too.

    But on balance, maybe modernity, with its scientific nihilism, is responsible for white self hate, and the suicide of the West.

    Maybe it's time to admit that there is something dark and life-sapping about modernity - monoclonal antibodies notwithstanding?

    Surely that's the easiest way to explain weird white behavior like unlimited xenophilia and all the rest.

    If the West commits suicide, then we lose monoclonal antibodies anyways. It'd be great if we can reform what's wrong with modernity without losing such wonderful things, but it may not be possible.

    Of course, no one really wants to choose between irreconcilable goods, or even admit good things can be irreconcilable , but as they say, not choosing is still a choice, and like you, Steve, we seem to have chosen monoclonal antibodies as a civilization. And die by that choice, rather than give it up.

    Human nature being what it is, all this may be inevitable - Trump notwithstanding, the West will probably die of scientific materialism - but maybe we can do so with a little rueful dignity, for what it's worth, by facing what's going on.

    But on balance, maybe modernity, with its scientific nihilism, is responsible for white self hate, and the suicide of the West.

    Plenty of societies since the beginning of time have been self hating and suicidal. I don’t think we are particularly unique in that respect. There seems to be an unstable equilibrium between self criticism and self destruction: societies that are critical and harshly evaluate themselves often find a path toward improvement and increase, but they can also go down in flames if the critical agents become too toxic.

  113. @Jack D
    And peanut butter. Don't forget peanut butter. So (even conceding your list, which is dubious) you have elevators, microphones, pacemakers, (peanut butter) vs. EVERY OTHER DAMN THING.

    The point is, you are totally allowed to hate on white people - can't wait until all those old white people are dead and no longer in charge. It's a perfectly acceptable sentiment to express. But if you say anything that is the teeny tiniest bit negative about non-whites or express that Western culture is has made greater contributions, then Nelly bar the door - you're a racis'. So it's really not possible to have a "conversation" when one side is free to express its thoughts but the other side is pre-constrained even before they are allowed to open their mouth.

    I have a lot of admiration for George Washington Carver, who spent a lot of his life researching peanuts, but he didn’t invent peanut butter, either. The special pleading that crops up in these kinds of arguments is painfully obvious; maybe more painful than obvious.

    • Replies: @gcochran
    GW Carver didn't invent anything.
    , @Danindc
    He invented the peanut you racist....
  114. @Thucydides
    What are you, butthurt, little Ahmed? Deal with it: Europe was cold as fuck when the middle easterners invented agriculture. And the invention of modernity and the Industrial Revolution is the greatest achievememt in the whole history of mankind. It was also harder than inventing agriculture, which was a work of genius, but nowhere near the complexity of the inventions that predated and then lead to and followed the industrial revolution.

    If it wasn't for white people we wouldn't be able to communicate now. I want all those people who downplay the importance of the west to go live without electricity or running water. It's laughable.

    If it wasn’t for white people we wouldn’t be able to communicate now.

    Now that you mention communication, there’s an Indian dude who has a decent claim to discovering radio comm. around the same time as Marconi, but never bothered to patent it.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    J.C. Bose was a seriously smart scientist. From what I've read, the small group of bright Indian elites of the late Victorian and Edwardian era considered themselves to be British subjects and it would have been news to them that the times they lived in, and the world centered around London was anything less than the pinnacle of human achievement and thought. Steve King's remarks would have seemed unexceptional to them, a self-evident truth scarcely worth uttering.

    While they were culturally Indian in their home lives, they were Englishmen for all practical purposes in their public and professional lives and jumped in wholesale into that milieu.

    If you read what Gandhi wrote in his earlier years, he sounds and writes exactly like a Victorian Brit, with all the energy, industriousness, and interest in a variety of theories and self-experimentation that characterized that cohort. Interestingly, those few Indians who had the financial resources to travel to England and work or study there were treated pretty much like any other British subjects from the more Anglo parts of the empire. I believe a couple of Indians were even elected to the British parliament from the very English constituencies of that time.

    , @iSteveFan
    Bose was definitely a great mind. But he did not work in a vacuum. His research was greatly influenced by contemporary Europeans who were working in the same field. In effect he was part of the Western zeitgeist of invention and discovery.

    This is similar to modern times. We have great contributions coming from NE Asians and Indians. But for the most part they are working in a Westernized world using the foundations of modern science laid down by Western Civ.

  115. @Numinous
    So according to Rep. King. Mr. Sailer, and all of the commenters here, civilization began 600 years ago?

    Just the good part of it Luminous. Just the good part

  116. @SPMoore8
    Too many people to respond to, so just some quick observations:

    1. King probably had the Renaissance in mind, ca. 1350, so 600 years will do.

    2. Jews are white, get over it. By the same token, the enormous contributions made by Jews occurred within the context of (at least culturally) Christian nations over the past 200 years.

    3. The claim of "white guys" for the past 600 years has nothing to do with the development of the wheel, fire, the six simple machines, the zero, or any of that stuff. People have to stop hyperventilating. It's like a Cubs fan talking about winning the World Series in 1908. So what.

    4. Murray's book is especially flawed when it comes to culture (i.e., literature, music, philosophy), but then his book is based on how many column inches are devoted to particular people in standard reference works and then works backwards from that. Hence, little space devoted to prominent Poles, and many other ethnic groups.

    5. From the point of view of engineering and applied science, particularly medicine, agriculture, and chemistry, Europe and America win hands down, it doesn't matter whose books you are citing or what language they are in.

    6. There is no question that the modern scientific method, the Industrial Revolution, and all of the inventions and developments flowing out of that was almost entirely developed by Europeans and Americans, both overwhelmingly white, Christian, and male.

    7. I don't see any point in getting into an argument about "whose team" won more Gold Medals at this point; that's not the issue, and such squabbling just gets in the way. Anyone who is interested in the development of engineering and technology, science and medicine, and so on, for the past 1,000 years knows where it comes from: Europe and the United States. That doesn't mean that there "cannot " be an alternative universe of black women with hispanic surnames doing all of this stuff. Of course, there can. The point however is that they have not, and what was done was done by dead white guys. So the point holds.

    That doesn’t mean that there “cannot ” be an alternative universe of black women with hispanic surnames doing all of this stuff. Of course, there can.

    As long as in that alternate universe, black women had a 30 point IQ advantage vs. Ashkenazi Jews and 15 points on whites in general. In the universe that WE live in, it’s the other way ’round so you could replay the last 600 years a thousand times and the result would be the same. The DNA dice are loaded so whitey wins every time.

    • Agree: SPMoore8
  117. @Gabriel M
    To be fair, these two talking heads didn't have time to prepare a response. Let's look at what race-denialists can put together when they have time to gather their material.

    http://www.vox.com/2016/7/18/12218672/steve-king-racist-ignorant


    "The "cradles of civilization" were in areas populated by brown people.
    The Phoenician alphabet is the basis for the modern alphabet of many languages.
    Egyptians helped bring paper and ink pens to Western civilizations — just two of the many contributions attributable to them.
    Middle Eastern scholars like Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī and Omar Khayyam invented crucial elements of algebra before they spread to Europe.
    The Chinese invented gunpowder and potentially the compass, among many other inventions.
    Indian people made many contributions to technologies we now take for granted, from farming to math.
    America was built on the slave labor of black Americans.
    There were many famous black inventors throughout US history.
    Jesus was possibly brown."


    Take that honky!

    Why the hell are you reading Vox? It’s a site without any intellectual rigor at all, plus it is very bad for mental health unless you’re a super masochist.

  118. A German lady I’m acquainted with, in her early eighties, went through the war in Germany. She’s seen it all. Nothing shakes her. Very dry sense of humor.

    So she travels back to Germany to visit relatives and go sight-seeing once or twice a year, and had recently returned to the US.

    She said her favorite city was always Munich, and said it’s been completely thrashed by Merkel’s refugees, as well as regular EU immigration. Said it was overrun with muslims and low end european riff raff. Said it was always a very relaxed city, and now it’s not. She said she’s never going back there, and she’s gone there every year since the fifties. Said she was amazed how everything had changed for the worse so quickly.

    She said, “So much for Germany’s Reconstruction!”

  119. WhatEvvs [AKA "Mipchunk"] says:
    @AaronB
    Sure, and indoor plumbing is pretty neat too.

    But on balance, maybe modernity, with its scientific nihilism, is responsible for white self hate, and the suicide of the West.

    Maybe it's time to admit that there is something dark and life-sapping about modernity - monoclonal antibodies notwithstanding?

    Surely that's the easiest way to explain weird white behavior like unlimited xenophilia and all the rest.

    If the West commits suicide, then we lose monoclonal antibodies anyways. It'd be great if we can reform what's wrong with modernity without losing such wonderful things, but it may not be possible.

    Of course, no one really wants to choose between irreconcilable goods, or even admit good things can be irreconcilable , but as they say, not choosing is still a choice, and like you, Steve, we seem to have chosen monoclonal antibodies as a civilization. And die by that choice, rather than give it up.

    Human nature being what it is, all this may be inevitable - Trump notwithstanding, the West will probably die of scientific materialism - but maybe we can do so with a little rueful dignity, for what it's worth, by facing what's going on.

    OK, point taken. Don’t forget the Higher Criticism, which originated in 18th century Germany, destroying the basis of Christianity as a vital faith:

    http://www.victorianweb.org/religion/higher.html

    Meanwhile, the Muslims believe with absolute certainty that their book is the Truth. What can stand up to a blazing belief in the truth of one’s revelation?

    Still, I maintain a slender hope that the West will prevail. In what form, I can’t say. Current neo-liberalism is a losing proposition, for sure.

  120. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:

    The Gruman Corp LEM was designed and built by Native Born White American Male Engineers,Technicians and Machinist. Two Alpha Native Born White American Astronauts descended from The Gruman Corp LEM onto the surface of the Moon in 1969.

    America 1969:90 percent Native Born White American…Gruman Corp 99 percent Native Born White American Male.

    I think we all know how to make America Great Again…for Native Born White Americans.

    I attended Donald Trump’s Gruman Corp Rally two months ago..The surrounding area annexed by India because of psychopathic Gruman Corp Executive’s Greed. Not a peep out of Donald Trump about this as he was screaming out of his mouth:”MAKE AMERICAN GREAT AGAIN!!!!”

    Who cares if Donald Trump brings back call center jobs from India…The Hindus in India can keep these jobs for all I care.

    • Replies: @JSM
    Groovy, I get you're enraged by the dot-Indians. You should be. But in a speech it's not possible to cover every point, and missed opportunities, like pointing out Gruman's importation of dot-Indians, abound.

    But, *do* consider Mr. Trump's position statement. Forcing corps. to pay higher wages to H1-B visa holders and forcing them to hire Americans first, will do a lot to change this hooey of Gruman's.

    https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

    , @Anon
    Grumman also gave the go ahead to launch Challenger waaaaaaaay out of specs in Jan of 1986. Maybe you remember what happened after that.
    , @Hibernian
    Mr. Blair Mountain, you've made Bethpage famous.
  121. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Europeans probably got the compass, paper, and gunpowder from China during the Mongol era. The Chinese had some insane tech like natural gas drilling. But they didn't seem to have much sense of cumulative progress. They sort of assumed that when the dynasty fell into chaos that they'd have to start over again.

    Eastern philosophy held views radically diverse from the Western.

    Greek philosophy -> Abrahamic monotheism -> the vainglorious idea that there’s evil and good [and we, id est our Gods on our behalf] can judge what’s the former and what’s the latter, that things can be changed, humans have free will and can deserve penalty, or reward…, and there’ll be progress… because not only they are cool, but also they’ll get cooler and cooler.

    Hindu and Chinese philosophies were concerned with accepting all reality as it is, and that we have no special place in the order of reality. “They didn’t seem to have much sense of cumulative progress.”

    Currently, all the world has converted to the Western… mindset.

  122. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Europeans probably got the compass, paper, and gunpowder from China during the Mongol era. The Chinese had some insane tech like natural gas drilling. But they didn't seem to have much sense of cumulative progress. They sort of assumed that when the dynasty fell into chaos that they'd have to start over again.

    Eastern philosophy held views radically diverse from the Western.

    Greek philosophy -> Abrahamic monotheism -> the vainglorious idea that there’s evil and good [and we, id est our Gods on our behalf] can judge what’s the former and what’s the latter, that things can be changed, humans have free will and can deserve penalty, or reward…, and there’ll be progress… because not only they are cool, but also they’ll get cooler and cooler.

    Hindu and Chinese philosophies were concerned with accepting all reality as it is, and that we have no special place in the order of reality. “They didn’t seem to have much sense of cumulative progress.”

    Currently, all the world has converted to the Western… mindset.

  123. @Robbie
    Notice how all the Jews who Invent Things look like White German Males?

    Honey babes, the Jews were *admittedly* smart and hijacked the best of Germanic DNA.

    But make no mistake...that 'greatness' is Germanic Christian DNA at heart.

    You don't see a lot of dark-arab-skinned Orthodox types doing a lot of progressin'.

    Sorry, no. Jews look like Germans only to the extent that a lot of Germans don’t look like Germans. Ashkenazi Jews have a big European DNA component but it’s southern European, not Germanic. The intermixing occurred long before the Jews showed up in Northern Europe.

    However, Jews can thank the German speaking educational system for their contributions. Before you-know-who, German universities were the finest in the world and attracted the best scholars, some of whom were Jewish. The Jewish educational system created some great thinkers, but unfortunately they spent all of their time concerned with questions like what do you do with an egg that was laid on Sabbath instead of on the structure of the atom. It was only when Jews were allowed (and wanted) to join the Western mainstream that you had this Big Bang explosion as Jewish brains applied themselves to Western problems.

    • Replies: @Robbie
    I think it's safe to say that it all goes back to Who Invented the Wheel (pre-dating religion...back when we had fur)

    That Germanic Area of Europe is where the wheel was invented and everything of worth on this planet has DNA roots going back to that area.

    And it's also safe to say that the majority of the DNA from that area decided to become Christian, with some of it hop-skipping over to Judaism.

    Jews owe a lot to that DNA whether they want to admit it or not.

    And I still stand by my thesis...if you put up a photo of The Average Israeli...then compare it to the Average Jewish Scientist....the Average Jewish Scientist is a hell of a lot more 'Germanic' looking.
    , @Thea
    Are you saying that after the Jews arrived in Northern Europe, the genes flowed out but no longer into the Ashkenazi community? That has some interesting implications.

    I've read on this here and at WestHunter and I'm still a bit confused. So apparently it was European women & Jewish men, but early on, in Rome, maybe? Then that group left. It seems there was a big religious shift with regards to marriage after that?
    , @avraham
    " Jews can thank the German speaking educational system for their contributions." So? I agree with that. Plus the USA universities also. I am grateful. What more can I say?
  124. how ignorant is the representative? doesn’t he know that Einstein plagiarized General Relativity from his African maid?

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    I recall that now! The maid, Beulah, said, "Missuh Einstein, when I be nappin' de time sho goes faster than when I be moppin'!" and then a light bulb lit up in Einstein's head.
  125. @reiner Tor
    Tarski, born Teitelbaum.

    Cousin of Joel? Is Tarski his “lab name”?

    • Replies: @szopen
    Alfred Tarski changed his name when he converted to catholicism (wikipedia states his conversion was purely symbolic, because he associated catholicism with Polishness, while privately he was atheist).
  126. @Gabriel M
    To be fair, these two talking heads didn't have time to prepare a response. Let's look at what race-denialists can put together when they have time to gather their material.

    http://www.vox.com/2016/7/18/12218672/steve-king-racist-ignorant


    "The "cradles of civilization" were in areas populated by brown people.
    The Phoenician alphabet is the basis for the modern alphabet of many languages.
    Egyptians helped bring paper and ink pens to Western civilizations — just two of the many contributions attributable to them.
    Middle Eastern scholars like Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī and Omar Khayyam invented crucial elements of algebra before they spread to Europe.
    The Chinese invented gunpowder and potentially the compass, among many other inventions.
    Indian people made many contributions to technologies we now take for granted, from farming to math.
    America was built on the slave labor of black Americans.
    There were many famous black inventors throughout US history.
    Jesus was possibly brown."


    Take that honky!

    It makes an impression to read your (Vox’s) resume while listening to Rachmaninoff, played by Horowitz…

    I assume Steve King was thinking of Hispanics and Blacks, non-white peoples living in the USA.

    There’s no doubt great contributions to culture have come from what’s India today, Japan, China, and the Middle East.
    They just took a deep nap for about 1,000 years (2,000, some).

    Western whites have been outputting culture for 25 centuries (I include the Greek).

    They stopped at the onset of the 20th century, I am afraid.

  127. Instead, they’d get very, very angry at the one who dares to say the obvious.

    A eunuch would see the whole world castrated.

    It’s too paradoxical for anybody to notice, but the general tendency of non-European civilizations has been to be excessively conservative.

    Seems pretty straightforward to me. Whites were so open that their brains fell out. Innovation, yes, but on the other hand, you don’t see others committing suicide by open borders.

    That took a lot of guts to say. I know he’s on msnbc in this instance to provoke liberal outrage but damn, he dropped a nuke on ‘em. The black female panelist was clearly the most upset by it. Her behavior shows, once again, that blacks really believe the crap cynical liberals tell them about themselves.

    Seems to me the degree of outrage tends to be inversely correlated with one’s race’s level of achievement. Or maybe it’s just a proxy for extraversion.

    Rep. Steve King shouldn’t be allowed to use any inventions created by people who are not white. No elevators, no microphones, no pacemakers

    Without conceding any of your particulars, that would mean all of his opponents (we’re talking about a lot of wealthy, powerful people here) would be arguing with him from structures without electricity or air conditioning, while wearing primitive dress, etc. It would hurt them a lot more than it would hurt him.

    You could seriously argue that perhaps the most accomplished – and certainly the most important – inventors in history were the neolithic middle easterners who invented bronze metallurgy and writing, thus ending the neolithic period and starting civilisation. And we have no idea who those individuals were.

    The fact that the middle east has been a midden for the last many centuries shouldn’t blind one to the facts. Those chaps were being accomplished while your ancestors and mine were hunting and gathering on the coasts and forest-edges of Europe, and on the Eurasian steppes, in deeply unaccomplished ways.

    This is a double-edged sword. Look how long they’ve had civilization and the written word, and how little they’ve done with it over that span. And how quickly Europeans progressed (particularly Germanics), once civilized. And it’s much easier to build a civilization in a friendly environment near the Equator, than it is to build one up closer to the Arctic circle.

    After the Arab conquest of the Middle East, Arab blood got mixed up with everyone in those areas.

    This is another application of that two-edged sword; it was easier to form civilization in west Asia, but harder to keep it. Crossroads of the world, someone always coming along and taking what you have.

    We were never a match for the Brits in my living memory, and in any case it was never fully our style, but we used to be better, a lot better.

    Caught a bit of BBC Radio’s interview with some British minister or other from Blair’s regime, defending his decisions on Iraq Attaq II. He actually sounded like he graduated from Oxbridge with honors. In America he’d be the most fluent politician in living memory; somehow I doubt that is the case in Britain. Now I’m trying to remember if I heard any “uhms” or “ahs” from him…

    In public schools and Oxbridge, debating is still a thing.

    Great minds think alike. 🙂

    Put more crudely: how do you not give the White guys (mostly) credit where it’s due?

    It’s important to acknowledge that without the current, anti-white zeitgeist, none of this conversation would be necessary (and it is necessary). It’s leftists who couldn’t let sleeping dogs lie.

    “Trump’s Republican party hits new low: relentless exploitation of genuine grief “

    Translation: “this has me worried, we must meet their strategy with aggression and quickly form a counter-narrative.”

    So according to Rep. King. Mr. Sailer, and all of the commenters here, civilization began 600 years ago?

    Modern civilization did, yes.

    Europeans probably got the compass, paper, and gunpowder from China during the Mongol era. The Chinese had some insane tech like natural gas drilling. But they didn’t seem to have much sense of cumulative progress. They sort of assumed that when the dynasty fell into chaos that they’d have to start over again.

    Would seem to be another argument for “that’s what separate countries are for.” Redundancy can be good.

  128. Example of Black Governace:

    We organized Liberia for them. We set up their borders. We gave them infrastructure. We gave them the concept of rule of law, and how a society should operate.

    Liberia went south very early on, with African Americans, the “enlightened ones,” enslaving the locals, and it’s been a crazy shitshow ever since.

    I use Liberia as an example of blacks left to run the show for themselves without Whites as their Bwana figure because it’s the most cut and dried. Sierra Leone turned out about the same.

    Liberia has always had a perverse logic to it’s insanity. A lot like “black lives matter,” working under the “vaguely aware of the immediate cost of everything and the value of nothing” premise that has kept Black folks looking to their Loyal Bwana as their hated savior since the day they first met:

    Meanwhile, in Mandela’s Johannesburg:

  129. BBC radio just reporting that a mother and her three daughters have been stabbed in southeast France.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3697451/Mother-three-daughters-aged-8-14-STABBED-French-holiday-resort-scantily-dressed.html

    “A mother and her three daughters have reportedly been stabbed in France because they were ‘scantily dressed’. The family were attacked while on holiday in Garda-Colombe in the Hautes Alpes near Montpellier in the south of France. The mother and her daughters aged between eight and 14 were targeted before the knifeman fled the scene, although he was later arrested by police. According to local reports, the motive of the attack is unclear but the man had allegedly made references about the females being ‘too lightly dressed’. French media reported that the attacker was a Muslim although that has not been confirmed.”

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/girl-fighting-life-after-mum-8448196

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  130. @AaronB
    Sure, and indoor plumbing is pretty neat too.

    But on balance, maybe modernity, with its scientific nihilism, is responsible for white self hate, and the suicide of the West.

    Maybe it's time to admit that there is something dark and life-sapping about modernity - monoclonal antibodies notwithstanding?

    Surely that's the easiest way to explain weird white behavior like unlimited xenophilia and all the rest.

    If the West commits suicide, then we lose monoclonal antibodies anyways. It'd be great if we can reform what's wrong with modernity without losing such wonderful things, but it may not be possible.

    Of course, no one really wants to choose between irreconcilable goods, or even admit good things can be irreconcilable , but as they say, not choosing is still a choice, and like you, Steve, we seem to have chosen monoclonal antibodies as a civilization. And die by that choice, rather than give it up.

    Human nature being what it is, all this may be inevitable - Trump notwithstanding, the West will probably die of scientific materialism - but maybe we can do so with a little rueful dignity, for what it's worth, by facing what's going on.

    Yes, life becomes impossible without illusions, and the more inquisitive, explorative a civilization’s mind is, the quicker they wear out all illusions.

    (See fertility rates & IQ relationship: the higher the IQ, the more they want, subconsciously, to disappear. Having offspring is a, subconscious, way of surviving.)

  131. @FX Enderby
    Right. Pat Buchanan was fantastic on MSNBC and his earlier TV gigs when he talked about immigration and race but the conversations almost never went in that direction. Even so he was still too dangerous and got booted off. "No platform" indeed.

    Al Sharpton (in addition to enjoying a welcome at both the White House as well as NYC’s Gracie Mansion) has a show on MSNBC, with major, entirely mainstream corporate sponsors. The same MSNBC that fired Pat Buchanan.

  132. @Anon 2
    You could add Count Alfred Korzybski, born and
    raised in Poland, and famous as the creator of General
    Semantics (1933), (not the most felicitous name) to
    your list. Most people have heard of
    his maxim "The map is not the territory,"
    and his insistence that non-Aristotelian
    logic (e.g., treating the word 'is' with extreme caution)
    provides a better map of the flux of reality than
    traditional logic. In the 1930s -'40s America Korzybski
    was more famous than Einstein. Some of us
    remember his famous disciple, S.I. Hayakawa
    (popularized by the media as someone who in the '60s
    fought campus activists at San Jose State) who
    did much to spread the word of the master.

    General Semantics influenced the development
    of Neuro-Linguistic Programming and Dianetics.
    It seems like the twentieth century had many
    prophetic figures who tried to lift humanity
    from its sorry condition - Bertrand Russell, Carl
    Jung, Alfred Korzybski, Krishnamurti, Gandhi,
    Maharishi (creator of TM), Helen Schucman
    (scribe of A Course in Miracles, often called
    the Third Testament), and Mari Perron (scribe
    of A Course of Love)

    In the 1930s -’40s America Korzybski was more famous than Einstein

    Do you have any support for this? Even if this was true (which it ain’t) how do account for the fact that Korzybski has fallen into near total obscurity while Einstein remains one of the towering figures of the 20th century?

  133. Well, it’s pretty undisputed that “science” began with the ancient Greeks. It is less widely known that “science” flourished under the Hellenic civilization established following Alexander the Great’s conquest of the “world.” (Aristarchus came up with a “heliocentric” theory of the universe almost 2000 years before Copernicus and Galileo. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarchus_of_Samos) When the remarkable Arab conquest occurred starting in the 7th century A.D., the Arabs conquered lands previously controlled by the Byzantine Empire and inherited all that intellectual capital built up over the centuries, but, considering the hundreds of years they ruled, they added very little to it. (By contrast, I would point out that the British Empire, which lasted much shorter than any empire established by the Arabs or Turks) did much both to spread “civilization” abroad and to create “civilization” (in the form of literature, science, philosophy, etc.) at home. What we once called “Arabic numbers” when I was in school, we now know were actually invented by the Indians of Asia and appropriated by the Arabs.

    But, in the meantime, progressive education worked its transformative propaganda mission. That was brought home to me in the 90’s when I had to return to the Washington, D.C. area to attend a family funeral. That allowed me to renew acquaintance with my niece who was then in high school in a pretty upscale suburb of D.C. Her mother had assured me that my niece, who was a very good student in school and a pretty smart kid, had an intense interest in history. So I asked my niece “who invented Western Civilization?” I drew a blank stare. She had no idea what I was talking about. I can recall taking my first world history survey course in the 8th grade and learning that Western Civilization started with the ancient Greeks. Apparently that is no longer taught. So we have a whole generation of ignorant children totally unaware of their roots. So I am not surprised by the MSM reaction to Rep. King’s remarks.

    • Replies: @HHSIII
    Just have your niece watch this series, The Western Tradition, a UCLA survey course that was taught by Dr. Eugen Weber:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkZgLhtDeoU&list=PLYbocufkwRFAS80nLFShkXSblfcFTXwRH
    , @CCZ
    But “Western Civilization” is mentioned (once) in the State of California (Draft) History Social Science Framework, Chapter 11, Grade Seven, World History: Medieval and Early Modern Times:

    “One of the great historical projects of the last few decades has been to shift from teaching Western Civilization, a narrative that put Western Europe at the center of world events in this period, to teaching world history. Decentering Europe is a complicated process, because themes, periods, narratives, and terminology of historical study was [shouldn't that be were?] originally built around Europe.”


    The complete K-12 History–Social Science Framework Revised Draft prepared for the State Board of Education Meeting, July 13–14, 2016 is available below:

    http://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/hs/cf/sbedrafthssfw.asp
  134. The problem with murray’s list is nobody else is creating their own list or methodology to attempt to improve the result. Doing a quick search of Murray’s bourgeois list I dont see Carl Marx. Mahler is there but not Scott Joplin *. Are there any architects? It would be interesting if a native Chinese could create a methodology and list, if it contained different names.

    * Mahler might have gotten better reviews, but Joplin sold more sheet music.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    "The problem with murray’s list is nobody else is creating their own list or methodology to attempt to improve the result. "

    Back in the late 60s the BBC ran a series called "Civilisation" which was entirely about Western civilisation.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilisation_%28TV_series%29

    "it was Attenborough who prompted the title, but because of time constraints the series only covered Western Civilisation. Clark did not "suppose that anyone could be so obtuse as to think I had forgotten about the great civilisations of the pre-Christian era and the east", though the title continued to worry him"

    It was followed by Jacob Bronowski's The Ascent Of Man, which was also overwhelmingly Western-oriented.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ascent_of_Man
    , @HA
    >"Mahler might have gotten better reviews, but Joplin sold more sheet music."

    Joplin was basically a one-hit-wonder. In the 70's, after a brief revival, and the movie The Sting, he became a two-hit-wonder. That's not to deny his genius, or the influence he had on ragtime composers, but as is the case with much black music, it comes and goes, and to the extent it stays, it's generally because white people are trying to keep it alive.

    Like it or not, in America, those who take an interest in music that was popular long before they were born tend to be white people.


    "Maple Leaf Rag" in 1899 brought him fame. This piece had a profound influence on subsequent writers of ragtime. It also brought the composer a steady income for life, though Joplin did not reach this level of success again and frequently had financial problems...Joplin's death [in 1917] is widely considered to mark the end of ragtime as a mainstream music format...
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Joplin
  135. @AaronB
    Sure, and indoor plumbing is pretty neat too.

    But on balance, maybe modernity, with its scientific nihilism, is responsible for white self hate, and the suicide of the West.

    Maybe it's time to admit that there is something dark and life-sapping about modernity - monoclonal antibodies notwithstanding?

    Surely that's the easiest way to explain weird white behavior like unlimited xenophilia and all the rest.

    If the West commits suicide, then we lose monoclonal antibodies anyways. It'd be great if we can reform what's wrong with modernity without losing such wonderful things, but it may not be possible.

    Of course, no one really wants to choose between irreconcilable goods, or even admit good things can be irreconcilable , but as they say, not choosing is still a choice, and like you, Steve, we seem to have chosen monoclonal antibodies as a civilization. And die by that choice, rather than give it up.

    Human nature being what it is, all this may be inevitable - Trump notwithstanding, the West will probably die of scientific materialism - but maybe we can do so with a little rueful dignity, for what it's worth, by facing what's going on.

    Yes, life becomes impossible without illusions, and the more inquisitive, explorative a civilization’s mind is, the quicker they wear out all illusions.

    (See fertility rates & IQ relationship: the higher the IQ, the more they want, subconsciously, to disappear. Having offspring is a, subconscious, way of surviving.)

    The most enlightened minds saw what was coming to the West as early as 2 centuries ago (I, Leopardi, was one of the first if not the first. And so was my German friend, author of The World as Will and Representation).

    Life needs to use reason, but it can’t shrink to reason. Reason is not life.
    The Western man has shrunk to reason.
    Then they get more and more disillusioned, and hurt.
    Vanity doesn’t let them admit their ill-feeling comes from wrong, vainglorious ideas.
    And yet somewhere deep in their mind they know it’s their own fault’s to feel as bad as they do.

    So?
    So they started seeking for sins and wrongs of theirs. They want to know why they feel so bad.
    They want to hate themselves (for making themselves feeling so bad).
    But, like always, their mind can find anything but the truth.

    Vain, vain species… the only one with the ability to build their pains on their own.

  136. @MC
    Trump is not a good speaker. Maybe only alt right figure who can speak thoroughly and coherently is Ann Coulter.

    You should check out some alt-right podcasts.

    -Richard Spencer
    -Greg Johnson
    -Vox Day
    -Milo
    …are all extremely articulate.

    If you wanna dip your toe into The Right Stuff Radio pool,
    -Jazzhands McFeels
    -Halberstram
    -Seventh Son
    -Reactionary Tree
    …. are also very articulate despite their zany pseudonyms.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    I wonder if one issue is that there are hbd and paleocon insights that are just not things that can be said in polite company. That means that if you are trying to broaden the Overton window from inside it--pushing the boundaries while not making yourself a pariah--you have a much harder mental task than someone who has abandoned that effort and just says what they think, having already been pushed out of polite company where politics are concerned.

    It's easier to be articulate if you are concentrating on explaining your views rather than trying to solve a tricky social/word puzzle about how to express those views without being lynched.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    Don't forget Radio Derb (http://www.vdare.com/radios)
    , @MC
    Vox is a smart guy but presents as pretty nerdy. Spencer is a pretty good speaker, but more academic. Not familiar with Greg Johnson.

    I'll give you Milo, though.
  137. @Steve Sailer
    Steyn's hugely gifted, but he lives in New Hampshire so he can't do big time TV all that regularly. You pretty much have to live in New York or Washington (or Atlanta if you are on CNN) or L.A. (if you are more entertainment than news).

    A long time ago I was counting up how many times I'd been on TV and I came up with around ten. I estimated back then then I'd need to be on TV at least 100 times to make any progress toward being recognizable, and I now think that was an underestimate.

    And TV appearances generally don't pay.

    The late Christopher Hitchens made a point of never missing an opportunity to appear on the telly; but then he lived in Washington DC. The advantage of this was that if a talking-head was needed in a hurry, he could be relied upon. Which generates its own self reinforcing currency, it put his name in folk’s minds and he became an entry in the well-thumbed section of TV scheduler’s Rolodex.

    Germane quote from Hitch-22.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    One time I was on TV, Hitchens was doing the segment before me. He was really good at it.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    Yeah, Hitchens was a good talker. He went on some crazy crusades against Kissinger and Mother Teresa for some reason, but I found him entertaining even when I knew he was blowing smoke. There are some Youtube clips where he tells hostile audiences to FOAD. Died too young. RIP.
  138. @Anonymous Nephew
    BBC radio just reporting that a mother and her three daughters have been stabbed in southeast France.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3697451/Mother-three-daughters-aged-8-14-STABBED-French-holiday-resort-scantily-dressed.html

    "A mother and her three daughters have reportedly been stabbed in France because they were ‘scantily dressed’. The family were attacked while on holiday in Garda-Colombe in the Hautes Alpes near Montpellier in the south of France. The mother and her daughters aged between eight and 14 were targeted before the knifeman fled the scene, although he was later arrested by police. According to local reports, the motive of the attack is unclear but the man had allegedly made references about the females being ‘too lightly dressed’. French media reported that the attacker was a Muslim although that has not been confirmed."

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/girl-fighting-life-after-mum-8448196

  139. @Anonymous
    I always think to myself that things, the artifacts, inventions, discoveries, if you will, etc etc that REALLY make a difference to our lives, lest that the vast bulk of the population who would not be privileged to be 'lords' in the alternate society that would, inevitably, establish itself by necessity , and live lives little much removed from that of a beast-of-burden, are due, wholly and exclusively, to the white man - and the white man alone.

    First of all one thinks of the steam engine. Sans steam engine, a world sans tap water and sewerage, to quote but one example.
    Then we have electricity and the exploitation thereof.
    Then you have the internal combustion engine and automobiles of all types.
    Add in powered iron ships.
    Automated looms, sewing machines.
    Refrigerators,
    And lastly and leastly toys such as your TV and tablet.

    Of course a myriad more examples are to be easily conjured up.

    Even toilet paper, that unmentionable but indispensable adjunct to life is only possible with steam engined or some such to 'grind up the trees'.

    The Romans had water and sewage systems 2,000 years ago without steam engines. Gravity is your friend.

    Before there were steam engines, there was water power. For stationary machinery, anything that you can do with a steam engine you can do with water power (or wind) The first automated looms ran on water power and for sewing machines human power was adequate.

    However, water and wind power is only present in certain places and in limited quantity. Quantity has its own quality – steam (followed by electricity and the internal combustion engine) allowed an explosion (no pun intended) of industrial production and its application to transportation (rail, steamboat) was even more revolutionary than in stationary applications.

    The total output of an industrial system is largely a function of the energy inputs. The discovery of fossil fuels and of effective methods to convert heat to motion greatly increased the available energy inputs.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @Unzerker

    The total output of an industrial system is largely a function of the energy inputs. The discovery of fossil fuels and of effective methods to convert heat to motion greatly increased the available energy inputs.
     
    One of the often overlooked fossil fuels is peat. During the Dutch golden age they used massive amounts to fuel their industries. Kinetic energy came from the wind but thermal energy was provided by peat.

    For example in 1662 more than half of the European sugar refineries were situated in the Netherlands. All powered by peat.
    , @keypusher
    The Romans had water and sewage systems 2,000 years ago without steam engines. Gravity is your friend.

    Yes, if you ever visit Pompeii you see just how much can be done without steam or electricity. Relatedly, I was just in the Rijksmuseum, where they have some beautiful models of 17th and 18th century sailing ships. Looking at them, you realize what a complex piece of machinery an 18th century warship was, even though it was powered only by the wind.
  140. @Jack D
    Sorry, no. Jews look like Germans only to the extent that a lot of Germans don't look like Germans. Ashkenazi Jews have a big European DNA component but it's southern European, not Germanic. The intermixing occurred long before the Jews showed up in Northern Europe.

    However, Jews can thank the German speaking educational system for their contributions. Before you-know-who, German universities were the finest in the world and attracted the best scholars, some of whom were Jewish. The Jewish educational system created some great thinkers, but unfortunately they spent all of their time concerned with questions like what do you do with an egg that was laid on Sabbath instead of on the structure of the atom. It was only when Jews were allowed (and wanted) to join the Western mainstream that you had this Big Bang explosion as Jewish brains applied themselves to Western problems.

    I think it’s safe to say that it all goes back to Who Invented the Wheel (pre-dating religion…back when we had fur)

    That Germanic Area of Europe is where the wheel was invented and everything of worth on this planet has DNA roots going back to that area.

    And it’s also safe to say that the majority of the DNA from that area decided to become Christian, with some of it hop-skipping over to Judaism.

    Jews owe a lot to that DNA whether they want to admit it or not.

    And I still stand by my thesis…if you put up a photo of The Average Israeli…then compare it to the Average Jewish Scientist….the Average Jewish Scientist is a hell of a lot more ‘Germanic’ looking.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    That's because Israeli Jews are equally divided (roughly) between Sephardic and Ashkenazi, whereas most Average Jewish Scientists are Ashkenazi. Also the average Israeli gets more sun and ends up darker over time. If you compare the Average Jewish Scientist to the average Israeli Ashkenazi Jew they look exactly the same (accounting for suntan) because they ARE exactly the same.

    On the DNA stuff, you are just wrong. We now have actual data on whose DNA comes from where and it is nothing like what you say. Anyway, German contributions to math and science are very recent (Jewish contributions even more so) - in the ancient world where the Greeks and the Romans were working out geometry, logic, etc. the Germans were literally the "barbarians" - bearded guys living in mud huts and painted blue.
    , @hhsiii
    Definitively in germanic area? I thought it ws nearly the same time in sumeria, maykop and central europe. Ear;liest known example may be germanic but not sure they know that's where they started.
  141. @Anon 2
    You could add Count Alfred Korzybski, born and
    raised in Poland, and famous as the creator of General
    Semantics (1933), (not the most felicitous name) to
    your list. Most people have heard of
    his maxim "The map is not the territory,"
    and his insistence that non-Aristotelian
    logic (e.g., treating the word 'is' with extreme caution)
    provides a better map of the flux of reality than
    traditional logic. In the 1930s -'40s America Korzybski
    was more famous than Einstein. Some of us
    remember his famous disciple, S.I. Hayakawa
    (popularized by the media as someone who in the '60s
    fought campus activists at San Jose State) who
    did much to spread the word of the master.

    General Semantics influenced the development
    of Neuro-Linguistic Programming and Dianetics.
    It seems like the twentieth century had many
    prophetic figures who tried to lift humanity
    from its sorry condition - Bertrand Russell, Carl
    Jung, Alfred Korzybski, Krishnamurti, Gandhi,
    Maharishi (creator of TM), Helen Schucman
    (scribe of A Course in Miracles, often called
    the Third Testament), and Mari Perron (scribe
    of A Course of Love)

    You could add Count Alfred Korzybski, born and
    raised in Poland, and famous as the creator of General
    Semantics (1933), (not the most felicitous name) to
    your list. Most people have heard of
    his maxim “The map is not the territory,”
    and his insistence that non-Aristotelian
    logic (e.g., treating the word ‘is’ with extreme caution)
    provides a better map of the flux of reality than
    traditional logic.

    So THAT’S where Clinton got that from!

    So, it turn’s out, he had engaged in an intense dialectical exchange in which he skillfully applied non-Aristotelian logic, casting the subject of the argument as a kind of Schrödinger’s Penis.

    All this time, I just thought he was being a douche.

    I learn so many neat things on this site.

    • Replies: @tbraton
    Funny. (Better than "agree" in my book, which would confer a seriousness on your post it doesn't deserve. Funny is better.)
  142. utu says:
    @szopen
    I am not sure what are "notable" definitions. I searched for several known Polish scientists, mathematicians, philosophers, and not a single appeared in the data: Łukasiewicz, Kotarbiński, Tarski, Witelo, Mandelbrot (well, this one was Jewish born in Warsaw), steinhaus, ulam, ajdukiewicz, czochralski, czekanowski, koneczny, hirszfeld, malinowski, sierpiński. I mean it seems that their contributions were at least comparable if not greater, than some of the people included in Murray's list (like, for example, Ansel Adams - or why Lumiere brothers but no Prószyński?)

    The first one which appeared was Banach

    A 3rd rate scientist usually knows that he isn’t a 1st rate. A 2nd rate scientist often makes a mistake that he is a 1st rate. The same mistake make his followers and acolytes. Murray is 2nd rate. Also his field is rather strange. The field that deals with intelligence of others is populated with bores and mediocrities in both temperament and intelligence.

    • Replies: @Pat Gilligan

    A 3rd rate scientist usually knows that he isn’t a 1st rate. A 2nd rate scientist often makes a mistake that he is a 1st rate. The same mistake make his followers and acolytes. Murray is 2nd rate. Also his field is rather strange. The field that deals with intelligence of others is populated with bores and mediocrities in both temperament and intelligence.
     
    If you hold a sinecure from a political think thank and are listed as a white nationalist on a hate watchlist, chances are you wouldn't be considered 3rd rate among respectable people. Not to be Captain Obvious here.
    , @Jack D

    The field that deals with intelligence of others is populated with bores and mediocrities in both temperament and intelligence.
     
    Boors or bores? Mediocrities like Shockley and Watson?


    What is the reason for that? Is it because it is such a tar baby that anyone with any brains and/or social skills refuses to touch it? Isn't that convenient - you turn a whole field of study into a mine field and then you complain that there is no one good out there plowing the field. You first. It's like the textbook definition of chutzpah - someone who kills his parents and then pleads for mercy because he is an orphan.
  143. @Yep
    You bring up a good point about him not being articulate. There appear to be no pols with alt right leanings that are good speakers except for Trump.That's a problem. If I said what King said to some of my conservative relatives and friends they would think it's racist too. The reason is we just don't have good speakers who can get these ideas across, or in this case just get facts across.

    It takes a certain kind of man with particular set of skills to take that first beach head. It’s incredibly difficult to take and hold a point of view that everyone else tries to shout down.

    Trump does it with sheer alpha male dominance and persuasive ability. When Trump doubles down, he’s digging in. Don’t be pushed back into the sea. Once he’s taken the beach and held it, then there’s room for articulate people to be heard. A space has to be created for rational discussion (thanks, Western Civilization!); it doesn’t exist on its own.

    • Agree: Wade
    • Replies: @Wade

    Trump does it with sheer alpha male dominance and persuasive ability. When Trump doubles down, he’s digging in. Don’t be pushed back into the sea. Once he’s taken the beach and held it, then there’s room for articulate people to be heard.
     
    Great metaphor! I couldn't have said it any better. An "articulate" person couldn't have gotten the job done if that was their only quality. Imagine Ron Unz trying to do what Trump has done. He couldn't have. But maybe after a Trump victory, when the dust settles, it'll be time for men like Sailer, Unz and the whole alt right to lead a "long march through the institutions".. That's what's needed more than anything else.

    I hope the alt right is up to the task when they get their chance.
  144. @reiner Tor
    In any event, the "white males need to go" narrative is shit, and I'd be happier with a "we invented everything" alternative than what we have now.

    “In any event, the “white males need to go” narrative is shit…”

    As is “Jews control everything in America, and people are too stupid to realize it”.

    As is “Black lives matters is the root cause for violent reprisals against cops”.

    As is “White people created modernity–never minding how we accomplished it–and what the horrific things we did do, so did other groups, and it wasn’t nearly as bad as them”.

    As is “Only true white people remain with their own kind, and promote their own agenda, and never race mix, for that represents degeneracy”.

    How do YOU feel about that last one in particular?

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    No, we don't need to accept any of the assertions you have made. You don't speak for any of us, nitwit
    , @Jack D

    As is “Black lives matters is the root cause for violent reprisals against cops”.
     
    So you are saying that BLM has nothing to do with the recent shootings, that a couple of crazy guys just happened to target cops and were in no way inspired by BLM? That if BLM (and the giant media machine that they have set in motion) had not gone crazy every time the police shoot a black person that these guys would have done the same thing?
    , @NOTA
    I don't agree with any of those statements. But I'm more interested in hearing an intelligent argument either way than in bashing someone for making those arguments.
    , @reiner Tor
    Your examples are told by people who have no or very little access to mass media, unlike the "white males need to go" narrative, which is, well, as mainstream as it gets.


    “Only true white people remain with their own kind, and promote their own agenda, and never race mix, for that represents degeneracy”.
     
    How do YOU feel about that last one in particular?
     
    I don't care, because people saying this are less than powerless, they are essentially an underground semi-illegal minority. But since I never wrote about it here, let's dwell on this topic a bit.

    To be honest, when I met my wife, I wasn't much race-conscious, and after having spent several years with her, I don't feel like abandoning her for one racial ideology or another. I guess most people can accept that. But if I had to give advice, I wouldn't advise anyone to marry outside their racial group, or ethnic group. (For that purpose, I don't consider say Italian Americans and Irish Americans etc. as different ethnic groups. But Irish and Italians in Europe are different ethnic groups, similarly a recent Italian immigrant is a different ethnic group than an Irish American.)

    I think the difficulty of raising a child increases:

    - if you raise him/her in a country not native to you (I do that, and I know it poses difficulties to the child)

    - if you raise him/her with a parent who is neither your co-ethnic nor of the same ethnicity as the country you are in (i.e. if you marry out, it's better if at least one of you is "at home" in the country where you are raising your child) (I am raising my daughter in a country that is native to neither me nor my wife, and I know it poses difficulties to the child)

    - if you speak a language with your spouse that is not the native language of either of you, nor of the country where you reside (again, I'm doing this and I wouldn't advise anyone to do this - the child has to learn four languages)

    Now of course none of the above are reasons strong enough to leave my family, but they are reasons strong enough not to recommend it to someone who doesn't yet have an attachment to a potential spouse, or who is still seeking a spouse and is thinking about a blind date, etc. If you are already having a spouse from another racial/ethnic group, then that's just part of what you have to live with.

    That's my two cents, anyway.

  145. @Anonymous
    Rep. Steve King shouldn't be allowed to use any inventions created by people who are not white. No elevators, no microphones, no pacemakers

    Don’t forget the mop. And the traffic light. Those are also things that black people falsely claim to have been invented by black people.

    There are a lot of black invention myths. Probably because there have been so few things (actual things) invented by black people.

    • Replies: @guest
    You can't take the Supersoaker away from them. I can honestly say it revolutionized my childhood water wars.
    , @JSM

    Probably because there have been so few things (actual things) invented by black people.
     
    Well, let's be fair, now. A Black DID invent that essential summer toy, the SuperSoaker.

    https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--rpkLQJN2--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18vrycf66bhunjpg.jpg
  146. @MC
    Trump is not a good speaker. Maybe only alt right figure who can speak thoroughly and coherently is Ann Coulter.

    Don’t forget the feisty and excellent Laura Ingraham.

  147. @Lurker
    Just a theory.

    Anyone with those skills and the right political views will rarely be allowed on the MSM in the first place, people like must exist but they never get the chance to hone their skills, to be really at ease on camera. Whereas leftist talking heads may be on TV/radio constantly, speaking truth to power on a regular basis. They will be used to the format, the presentation etc.

    Say what you will about him, David Duke wrecks whenever he is given an opportunity to talk, which is why they talk over him or not invite him in the first place.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFmPjT0Qglc

    Is his style of attacking (((influence))) instead of recognizing and persuading it effective? I think the latter is better but your point is correct. The Jerry Springer Nazi strawman paid actor is who we have been allowed to see mostly on TV.

    On the original topic, my first thought was Milo as someone else stated. He is a shameless self promoter but also the real deal. He is what you’d expect if you attempted to selectively breed a debating superman. Naturally, he’s a Jew Greek mix.

    • Replies: @Anonym
    The thought also came to me that not only is Milo a Jew/Greek mix, he is also gay. Gays are usually pretty verbally articulate people, if somewhat OTT. Again, if you wanted to create a super-debater in a lab, breed a Jew with a Greek, wait until you get a gay one, and then raise him in Britain. Milo.
  148. @Trelane
    A 1000 year dark ages looms before Western man. Our kind is doomed.

    “…despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not.”

    JRRT

  149. Did you mean “emperor”, or….

  150. @Jack D
    And peanut butter. Don't forget peanut butter. So (even conceding your list, which is dubious) you have elevators, microphones, pacemakers, (peanut butter) vs. EVERY OTHER DAMN THING.

    The point is, you are totally allowed to hate on white people - can't wait until all those old white people are dead and no longer in charge. It's a perfectly acceptable sentiment to express. But if you say anything that is the teeny tiniest bit negative about non-whites or express that Western culture is has made greater contributions, then Nelly bar the door - you're a racis'. So it's really not possible to have a "conversation" when one side is free to express its thoughts but the other side is pre-constrained even before they are allowed to open their mouth.

    “But if you say anything that is the teeny tiniest bit negative about non-whites or express that Western culture is has made greater contributions, then Nelly bar the door – you’re a racis’”

    Did those European and American inventors proclaim “whites rule” upon their discoveries, fist bumping their associates, or did they simply state that their innovations were to benefit human kind, and that their technology was first and foremost invented by [insert their ethnic group here]?

    What’s the point to say that white people are squarely responsible for progress and modernity, when those on the Alt-Right and neoreactionaries say those same inventions, technological and ideological, are responsible for our current global mess? Did not “white” people “invent” such things as communism, imperialism, computer hacking, and drones?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    King was reacting to a statement - someone (ironically himself an old white man) had just said, in effect, " I can't wait until old white people are no longer in charge of things." He was "optimistic" that this was going to be true by the time of the next convention, 4 short years from now. He was looking forward to that time, because implicitly in his view things were going to be much better without old white people in charge. Because we know that in countries and places (Zimbabwe, Detroit, etc.) where that is true, things really are better. Well at least no old honkies are standing around telling you what to do. That's much more important than whether the electricity works or whether the tap water is safe to drink.

    What SHOULD King have said? Should he have allowed this kind of nonsense (not just nonsense, but in effect an anti-white remark) to go unrebutted?
    , @Anonymous
    Communism - devised by Karl Marx. Whatever your opinion of Marxism, it was a serious intellectual, philosophical attempt to address the appalling levels of suffering and inequality which existed - and still does exist - in Marx's day.

    Imperialism - what?, seriously, you've never heard of Genghis Khan, the Ottomans, the original Arab islamists, the Mughals, the Bantus etc etc etc?

    Drones - damned useful. Amazon is planning to use them to drop your parcels in the back yard - now, *that's* a game changer.

    Computer hackers - whether they act for 'good' or 'evil', you've got to admire their wit.
  151. @Dutchman
    What scares these people is not whether this is or isn't the last time that White men dominate the Republican Party, it's that White men are starting to become unapologetic about being White and aren't willing to keep playing their assigned role in the New World Order. Just look at how triggered that black woman was. That was worth the price of admission.

    Wrong. If white people are lashing back, it’s only because they have been backed into a corner. Those shouting at King were not scared, they were shocked and angry that there was a rear guard who still had the temerity to speak publicly when they thought that their victory was complete and no longer up for grabs. If your side is the winning side, it makes no difference whether what you believe is total nonsense on stilts or not – might makes right. It was as if a Czarist had stood up to rebut a Stalin speech. They were no longer capable of offering a coherent rebuttal because they were out of practice and anyway their anger took over. Can’t we just drag this reactionary straggler off and shoot him out back?

  152. To me, the most remarkable thing is how Pierce can just toss off that we should be “optimistic” that one day soon there won’t be as many white people at these conventions (and presumably anywhere else). I mean, if less white people is good, it follows — not axiomatically, but conceivably — that “no white people” is really, really awesome.

    What makes this especially chilling is that the actual conversation with the written transcript and the “uproar” which followed the dissemination of this discussion. Watching it live, it comes across as a bunch of friends shootin’ the ****. The Congress guy was just saying, “Are you sure white people are so bad? I think we’ve done a lot of great things especially here in the U-S-A and Europe.”

    Now look at the comments at the Washington Post. Demented and vicious, with a lot of that late night talk show “humor” which liberals love but strikes me as about as hilarious as the KGB knocking on the door in the middle of the night. A genuine “Emperor has no clothes” moment combined with the explicit threat that “You better not listen to this guy or you’re finished!”

  153. Rep. Steve King breaks on through to the other side. Breaks on through to the other side and says what is forbidden. Just subtract the sanitation measures and antibiotics whites/Europeans invented then spread throughout Asia, Africa and Latin America and the percentage of white people of the world’s population (8%?) would be triple. China would not be a competitor and military challenge.
    Steve- Thanks for posting this! I was not aware of Rep. Steve King remarks until seeing it here.

  154. @Ben Kurtz
    I've decided to dub this phenomenon of white men finally snapping, rejecting the denigration of their superior heritage, the Tubman Effect.

    HTTPS://benkurtzblog.wordpress.com/the-tubman-effect/

    In unrelated news, British researchers have finally declared a tipping point in the ability to use DNA testing to predict academic success.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3697029/Can-DNA-reveal-exams-Scientists-pinpoint-genes-used-predict-academic-achievement.html

    It’s a catchy title, but maybe I’m dense – I don’t get the connection.

  155. @Anon 2
    You could add Count Alfred Korzybski, born and
    raised in Poland, and famous as the creator of General
    Semantics (1933), (not the most felicitous name) to
    your list. Most people have heard of
    his maxim "The map is not the territory,"
    and his insistence that non-Aristotelian
    logic (e.g., treating the word 'is' with extreme caution)
    provides a better map of the flux of reality than
    traditional logic. In the 1930s -'40s America Korzybski
    was more famous than Einstein. Some of us
    remember his famous disciple, S.I. Hayakawa
    (popularized by the media as someone who in the '60s
    fought campus activists at San Jose State) who
    did much to spread the word of the master.

    General Semantics influenced the development
    of Neuro-Linguistic Programming and Dianetics.
    It seems like the twentieth century had many
    prophetic figures who tried to lift humanity
    from its sorry condition - Bertrand Russell, Carl
    Jung, Alfred Korzybski, Krishnamurti, Gandhi,
    Maharishi (creator of TM), Helen Schucman
    (scribe of A Course in Miracles, often called
    the Third Testament), and Mari Perron (scribe
    of A Course of Love)

    “In the 1930s -’40s America Korzybski was more famous than Einstein.”

    A remarkable non-fact. Do you have any other remarkable non-factual assertions to amaze us with?

    “Some of us remember his famous disciple, S.I. Hayakawa (popularized by the media as someone who in the ’60s fought campus activists at San Jose State) who did much to spread the word of the master.”

    Actually, it was San Francisco State. But I guess we have no reason to expect you to be any more right on that than anything else you have said.

    “General Semantics influenced the development of Neuro-Linguistic Programming and Dianetics.”

    Dianetics? Gee, you mean we have him to thank for scientology too? Yeah, he sounds like a real benefactor of humanity.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    1. True, S. I. Hayakawa was at San Francisco State.
    A typo. 2. For a magnificent account of Korzybski's
    life, read a recent 700-page biography by Bruce Kodish
    who happens to be Jewish and is one of many passionate
    (indirect) disciples of the man, which says something
    considering that Korzybski died in 1950. There are those
    things called books. Read them, enlighten yourself

    3. Actually, Einstein's contributions are being reevaluated.
    There is no question he was a great physicist but he is
    increasingly seen as the last of great classical physicists
    due to his opposition to quantum mechanics. Many people
    are angry that string theories didn't work out, thousands
    of physicists wasted their lives pursuing a chimera, and
    a growing number of people feel that Einstein pushed
    physics in the wrong direction ( by emphasizing theoretical
    postulates at the expense of empirical data. Lorentz famously
    said, "Einstein assumed what we had proved), and hence deserves
    part of the blame for the current sorry state of fundamental physics.

    There are also sociological factors. As the Old Guard in fundamental
    physics, heavily Jewish in composition, retires, it is increasingly
    being replaced by Asians (annually about 60,000 immigrate to the U.S.
    from India and India each) who have little reason to defend Einstein
    against his detractors. For a recent example, see How Einstein Ruined
    Physics by Schlafly.
  156. Jews are another case of the mighty two-edged sword. They’ve achieved very little that wasn’t predicated on European (or other host) civilization’s achievements. Starting with “Jewish emancipation” (a stupid term, as Europeans have dragged Jews precisely nowhere, other than out of their shtetls.).

    • Replies: @utu
    You should elaborate on why Jews before emancipation basically contributed nothing to what we consider civilization: zero science, zero in engineering, zero visual arts, almost zero in literature, very little in philosophy, very little in music. Prior to the emancipation they were prominent in medicine (mostly charlatanic) and finances (mostly predatory).
    , @Anonymous
    Why wouldn't the activities of European Jews, who've been living in Europe for more than a millenium, be significantly predicated on what other Europeans were doing? And why don't you apply this to other Europeans? Was the rest of Europe hermetically sealed from Classical Greece and Rome, or was its achievements predicated on them? Was northern Europe hermetically sealed from Renaissance Italy, or was its achievements predicated on it? What about, say, French or German industry? They imported and copied industry from the English Industrial Revolution. Or what about white Southerners? They were dragged out of their poverty and backwardness by the North.
  157. @Corvinus
    "In any event, the “white males need to go” narrative is shit..."

    As is "Jews control everything in America, and people are too stupid to realize it".

    As is "Black lives matters is the root cause for violent reprisals against cops".

    As is "White people created modernity--never minding how we accomplished it--and what the horrific things we did do, so did other groups, and it wasn't nearly as bad as them".

    As is "Only true white people remain with their own kind, and promote their own agenda, and never race mix, for that represents degeneracy".

    How do YOU feel about that last one in particular?

    No, we don’t need to accept any of the assertions you have made. You don’t speak for any of us, nitwit

  158. @AaronB
    Sure, and indoor plumbing is pretty neat too.

    But on balance, maybe modernity, with its scientific nihilism, is responsible for white self hate, and the suicide of the West.

    Maybe it's time to admit that there is something dark and life-sapping about modernity - monoclonal antibodies notwithstanding?

    Surely that's the easiest way to explain weird white behavior like unlimited xenophilia and all the rest.

    If the West commits suicide, then we lose monoclonal antibodies anyways. It'd be great if we can reform what's wrong with modernity without losing such wonderful things, but it may not be possible.

    Of course, no one really wants to choose between irreconcilable goods, or even admit good things can be irreconcilable , but as they say, not choosing is still a choice, and like you, Steve, we seem to have chosen monoclonal antibodies as a civilization. And die by that choice, rather than give it up.

    Human nature being what it is, all this may be inevitable - Trump notwithstanding, the West will probably die of scientific materialism - but maybe we can do so with a little rueful dignity, for what it's worth, by facing what's going on.

    Maybe the fatal flaw is nothing about indoor plumbing or monoclonal antibodies. Maybe there are evil people who forward their agenda with every tool that they can, including violence, distortion, fraud, emotion, demagoguery, playing on other’s better nature and sense of fairness, abuse of positions of influence (like legacy media and academia), lies, subversion, etc

  159. Wait a second, didn’t Ahmed Mohamed invent the electronic clock radio that gets you up early so you can read Steve?

  160. @Anonymous
    I always think to myself that things, the artifacts, inventions, discoveries, if you will, etc etc that REALLY make a difference to our lives, lest that the vast bulk of the population who would not be privileged to be 'lords' in the alternate society that would, inevitably, establish itself by necessity , and live lives little much removed from that of a beast-of-burden, are due, wholly and exclusively, to the white man - and the white man alone.

    First of all one thinks of the steam engine. Sans steam engine, a world sans tap water and sewerage, to quote but one example.
    Then we have electricity and the exploitation thereof.
    Then you have the internal combustion engine and automobiles of all types.
    Add in powered iron ships.
    Automated looms, sewing machines.
    Refrigerators,
    And lastly and leastly toys such as your TV and tablet.

    Of course a myriad more examples are to be easily conjured up.

    Even toilet paper, that unmentionable but indispensable adjunct to life is only possible with steam engined or some such to 'grind up the trees'.

    Even toilet paper, that unmentionable but indispensable adjunct to life is only possible with steam engined or some such to ‘grind up the trees’.

    The first water powered paper mill dates from the 12th century. European of course.

    Europe made extensively use of water and wind powered machines before the invention of the steam engine. It’s partly because of this that steam engines become so popular. They could switch to a more reliable source to power their complex machines.

    In China and India everything was done by hand so there really was no use for a steam engine if the first place.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    Europe made extensively use of water and wind powered machines before the invention of the steam engine. It’s partly because of this that steam engines become so popular. They could switch to a more reliable source to power their complex machines.
     
    The other big reason is that a steam engine can be set up anywhere, unlike a water mill, which has to be beside a stream or river, or a windmill, which has to be built where there is a reliable breeze.

    In China and India everything was done by hand so there really was no use for a steam engine if the first place.
     
    China and India did make use of oxen to power water pumps, threshers and oil mills, as did Europe, which used horses as well for the purpose. Windmills and water mills for grinding grain were unknown in Asia, though.
  161. @SteveM
    King is correct in his observations, but I don't get the value of racial self-congratulations. They accomplish what objective in a political context?

    And Charles Murray is a gas-bag who merely recycles the sames observations over and over about the lazy and stupid cretins from the left side of the Bell Curve while condescendingly self-congratulating that he is not one of them.

    BTW, Murray is paid over $300 Grand by AEI for his one-trick musings. Not bad scratch for just showing up and bloviating. The Hispanic immigrants who mow his lawn actually generate more real value in week than Murray has generated in his Crony funded career of stating the obvious.

    I don’t get the value of racial self-congratulations.

    I don’t either but non-whites congratulate themselves a thousand times a day so there must be some value in it. Why are whites, who are the ones with the most to crow about, the only ones who are not permitted to play this game?

    They accomplish what objective in a political context?

    What was the objective of the little boy who said that the emperor had no clothes? Havel taught us the value of living in truth, even if it is politically not wise at the moment.

    The Hispanic immigrants who mow his lawn actually generate more real value in week than Murray has generated in his Crony funded career of stating the obvious.

    If what Murray is saying is so damn obvious, why are there so many people out there shouting him down and calling him names? What may seem obvious to you seems like heresy to true believers in the prevailing system of radical egalitarianism.

  162. @utu
    A 3rd rate scientist usually knows that he isn't a 1st rate. A 2nd rate scientist often makes a mistake that he is a 1st rate. The same mistake make his followers and acolytes. Murray is 2nd rate. Also his field is rather strange. The field that deals with intelligence of others is populated with bores and mediocrities in both temperament and intelligence.

    A 3rd rate scientist usually knows that he isn’t a 1st rate. A 2nd rate scientist often makes a mistake that he is a 1st rate. The same mistake make his followers and acolytes. Murray is 2nd rate. Also his field is rather strange. The field that deals with intelligence of others is populated with bores and mediocrities in both temperament and intelligence.

    If you hold a sinecure from a political think thank and are listed as a white nationalist on a hate watchlist, chances are you wouldn’t be considered 3rd rate among respectable people. Not to be Captain Obvious here.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    I'm not certain a reference to the SPLC and 'respectable people' in the same sentence carries much weight.
  163. Corvinus, all of your arguments are shit. I can’t even bring myself to argue with you, and I love to argue.

    “A mother and her three daughters have reportedly been stabbed in France because they were ‘scantily dressed’. The family were attacked while on holiday in Garda-Colombe in the Hautes Alpes near Montpellier in the south of France. The mother and her daughters aged between eight and 14 were targeted before the knifeman fled the scene, although he was later arrested by police. According to local reports, the motive of the attack is unclear but the man had allegedly made references about the females being ‘too lightly dressed’. French media reported that the attacker was a Muslim although that has not been confirmed.”

    This is all about the European crusaders, who invade west Asia and force the women to wear slutty clothes.

  164. @MC
    Trump is not a good speaker. Maybe only alt right figure who can speak thoroughly and coherently is Ann Coulter.

    The best man to represent the white team in the media would be the brilliant, well-informed, even-tempered, and entirely reasonable Jared Taylor. Why don’t they feature him as the “racist” non-white America can hate on? Because he’s too good at defending the “huWhite” position.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Are you serious? Jared is right about many things but cringingly bad at selling his positions in debates.

    (Sorry, Jared, but even Moses needed Aaron...)
  165. King is correct in his observations, but I don’t get the value of racial self-congratulations. They accomplish what objective in a political context?

    Well, you see, there’s this thing, where white nations, and only white nations, are being erased. There’s this thing, where the white race, and only the white race, is now considered disposable. There’s this thing, where white people, and only white people, are the villains of history.

    Get it now, dummy?

    Your kind made White Nationalism inevitable.

    • Agree: Anonym
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Well, you see, there’s this thing, where white nations, and only white nations, are being erased. There’s this thing, where the white race, and only the white race, is now considered disposable. There’s this thing, where white people, and only white people, are the villains of history."

    See, there is thing called white people who make their own racial decisions, who seek to live with people they have things in common with. Then there are other white people who say the white people who are exercising their own liberty are "anti-white", vilifying freedom of association.
  166. @Numinous

    If it wasn’t for white people we wouldn’t be able to communicate now.
     
    Now that you mention communication, there's an Indian dude who has a decent claim to discovering radio comm. around the same time as Marconi, but never bothered to patent it.

    J.C. Bose was a seriously smart scientist. From what I’ve read, the small group of bright Indian elites of the late Victorian and Edwardian era considered themselves to be British subjects and it would have been news to them that the times they lived in, and the world centered around London was anything less than the pinnacle of human achievement and thought. Steve King’s remarks would have seemed unexceptional to them, a self-evident truth scarcely worth uttering.

    While they were culturally Indian in their home lives, they were Englishmen for all practical purposes in their public and professional lives and jumped in wholesale into that milieu.

    If you read what Gandhi wrote in his earlier years, he sounds and writes exactly like a Victorian Brit, with all the energy, industriousness, and interest in a variety of theories and self-experimentation that characterized that cohort. Interestingly, those few Indians who had the financial resources to travel to England and work or study there were treated pretty much like any other British subjects from the more Anglo parts of the empire. I believe a couple of Indians were even elected to the British parliament from the very English constituencies of that time.

    • Replies: @Numinous
    I mostly agree with you, but disagree in some important ways. The British achievement was in creating a good and fair society where people could flourish and make progress in understanding the world (i.e., science.) Now that was indeed the pinnacle of human (or national, if you will) organization at the time, and well worth emulating, as many people around the world tried to do. But such a role has been played by different people and different empires throughout the course of known history. During their heydey, even the Ottoman Empire was considered to be a better place to live and thrive compared to the fragmented European polities to its north and west. And various other non-white civilizations have played this role of being the pinnacle of human civilization at a certain point in time, so much so that others strove to emulate them.

    This is very different from the blanket denunciation and contempt implied by Rep. King's question: "what have non-whites ever done for civilization". You yourself acknowledge that J.C. Bose was a great scientist, but then you seem to incorporate him into your notion of "white", because he was culturally Anglicized, and being a subject of the Empire made his career possible. I agree with that to some extent, but 99% of the commenters who hang out on this forum would likely disagree with you. Based on my experience here, people believe that white is white and non-white is non-white, and the latter (on an individual or collective basis) have never done anything worthy of note and never will. They would either try to discredit someone like Bose, or try to paint him as a statistical anomaly.

    Lastly, and this is a separate point, all the people (including Gandhi) who appreciated England and the time they spent there studying eventually went back to India, and found that the white colonials were unwilling to give even the most accomplished of them a modicum of respect. The concluded that British talk about justice, fairness, and human rights, was all a sham, and that for all the improvements that had occurred in the human condition within Britain herself, British rule in the colonies was as despotic as any other foreign rule had been in India or elsewhere. Such educated, Anglicized, Indians, started the Congress that eventually morphed into a nationalist movement, and the rest is history.
  167. @yowza

    You could add Count Alfred Korzybski, born and
    raised in Poland, and famous as the creator of General
    Semantics (1933), (not the most felicitous name) to
    your list. Most people have heard of
    his maxim “The map is not the territory,”
    and his insistence that non-Aristotelian
    logic (e.g., treating the word ‘is’ with extreme caution)
    provides a better map of the flux of reality than
    traditional logic.
     
    So THAT'S where Clinton got that from!

    So, it turn's out, he had engaged in an intense dialectical exchange in which he skillfully applied non-Aristotelian logic, casting the subject of the argument as a kind of Schrödinger's Penis.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHlt1W83JFU

    All this time, I just thought he was being a douche.

    I learn so many neat things on this site.

    Funny. (Better than “agree” in my book, which would confer a seriousness on your post it doesn’t deserve. Funny is better.)

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Wouldn't it be nice if Unz added an LOL button to Agree/Disagree?
  168. @NickG
    The late Christopher Hitchens made a point of never missing an opportunity to appear on the telly; but then he lived in Washington DC. The advantage of this was that if a talking-head was needed in a hurry, he could be relied upon. Which generates its own self reinforcing currency, it put his name in folk's minds and he became an entry in the well-thumbed section of TV scheduler's Rolodex.

    Germane quote from Hitch-22.

    One time I was on TV, Hitchens was doing the segment before me. He was really good at it.

  169. @Anonymous
    Actually, from the extant paintings of that era, Minoans, Greeks etc pretty much uniformly depicted themselves with dark hair.

    Minoans = pelasgians

  170. @Corvinus
    "But if you say anything that is the teeny tiniest bit negative about non-whites or express that Western culture is has made greater contributions, then Nelly bar the door – you’re a racis’"

    Did those European and American inventors proclaim "whites rule" upon their discoveries, fist bumping their associates, or did they simply state that their innovations were to benefit human kind, and that their technology was first and foremost invented by [insert their ethnic group here]?

    What's the point to say that white people are squarely responsible for progress and modernity, when those on the Alt-Right and neoreactionaries say those same inventions, technological and ideological, are responsible for our current global mess? Did not "white" people "invent" such things as communism, imperialism, computer hacking, and drones?

    King was reacting to a statement – someone (ironically himself an old white man) had just said, in effect, ” I can’t wait until old white people are no longer in charge of things.” He was “optimistic” that this was going to be true by the time of the next convention, 4 short years from now. He was looking forward to that time, because implicitly in his view things were going to be much better without old white people in charge. Because we know that in countries and places (Zimbabwe, Detroit, etc.) where that is true, things really are better. Well at least no old honkies are standing around telling you what to do. That’s much more important than whether the electricity works or whether the tap water is safe to drink.

    What SHOULD King have said? Should he have allowed this kind of nonsense (not just nonsense, but in effect an anti-white remark) to go unrebutted?

    • Replies: @Anon
    A sarcastic comment saying something to the effect of "Yes, maybe in four years we can have a successful non white gathering like Detroit or Zimbabwe" would have been better, and probably would have let him still drop the satchel charge in their bunker at the end.
    , @PistolPete
    I don't know why, but black people feel very comfortable around me and blurt things out to me that they wouldn't normally towards a white man(I think it's my fast paced banter). I had just moved to the oil capital of West texas, Midland , and was in a wells fargo downtown, applying for a loan(yea, right) with a very good looking black bankerette. Making conversation I remarked downtown seemed rather dead, and asked where everyone was. Her answer "oh, only old rich white men around here, at lunch time." For some reason an image of my grandpa, recently deceased, came to mind. He was a NYC Irish boy started as a shoe shine boy to die a millionaire in CT, most down to earth man imaginabl, made it with brains and hard work. Well my blood BOILED. With him in mind, I told her at least there are old rich men around here otherwise we'd be Africa you ignorant bitch." It was awkward ater that, to put it lightly, but I'm more than glad I did it.
    , @Corvinus
    "Should he have allowed this kind of nonsense (not just nonsense, but in effect an anti-white remark) to go unrebutted?"

    Anti-white is another meaningless meme.
  171. @SPMoore8
    I have a lot of admiration for George Washington Carver, who spent a lot of his life researching peanuts, but he didn't invent peanut butter, either. The special pleading that crops up in these kinds of arguments is painfully obvious; maybe more painful than obvious.

    GW Carver didn’t invent anything.

    • Replies: @Dirk Dagger

    In 1974, the posthumously established Carver Museum at the Tuskegee Institute listed 287 peanut products, but much duplication inflates the figure. Bar candy, chocolate-coated peanuts, and peanut-chocolate fudge are listed as separate items, as are face cream, face lotion, and all-purpose cream. No fewer than 66 of the 287 products are dyes — 30 for cloth, 19 for leather and 17 for wood.

    Many of the products were obviously not invented or discovered by Carver — “salted peanuts” are on the list — and the efficacy of many, including a “face bleach and tan remover” cannot be guaranteed or even tested. Astonishingly enough, Carver did not record the formulas for his products, so it is impossible to reproduce or evaluate them.
    -- Marian Evans
     
  172. Black Incompetence is another sleeping dog that leftists couldn’t let lie. Leftists had to drag YT into court and blame him for Black Failure (and demand that YT’s children, and their children, and so on, pay for it in perpetuity) so it is now the duty of every just man (not just white men) to point out Black Incompetence, the real reason for Black Failure.

  173. @Jack D
    Sorry, no. Jews look like Germans only to the extent that a lot of Germans don't look like Germans. Ashkenazi Jews have a big European DNA component but it's southern European, not Germanic. The intermixing occurred long before the Jews showed up in Northern Europe.

    However, Jews can thank the German speaking educational system for their contributions. Before you-know-who, German universities were the finest in the world and attracted the best scholars, some of whom were Jewish. The Jewish educational system created some great thinkers, but unfortunately they spent all of their time concerned with questions like what do you do with an egg that was laid on Sabbath instead of on the structure of the atom. It was only when Jews were allowed (and wanted) to join the Western mainstream that you had this Big Bang explosion as Jewish brains applied themselves to Western problems.

    Are you saying that after the Jews arrived in Northern Europe, the genes flowed out but no longer into the Ashkenazi community? That has some interesting implications.

    I’ve read on this here and at WestHunter and I’m still a bit confused. So apparently it was European women & Jewish men, but early on, in Rome, maybe? Then that group left. It seems there was a big religious shift with regards to marriage after that?

    • Replies: @Jack D

    It seems there was a big religious shift with regards to marriage after that?
     
    Not so much religious as perhaps cultural. You see the same thing in the European settlement of the Americas. At first, a small number of young men (traders, adventurers) arrive in a place far away from home and their parents and in need of female company, so they hook up with the local women. After a while a settled community is established where the next generation can no longer do whatever they want - they are policed by their parent and clergy and the community to do what is socially expected, which is to marry within their group.

    In the shtetls, intermarriage between Jews and non-Jews was simply inconceivable. Jews and non-Jews lived in the same area, but they led completely separate lives, spoke different languages at home and neither community wanted to see their kids marry out of their group. Their religions were different and religion was not something taken lightly but governed your daily conduct from birth to death - what you ate, how you dressed, etc. The closest thing I can think of in modern American would be the Amish.
  174. @Robbie
    Notice how all the Jews who Invent Things look like White German Males?

    Honey babes, the Jews were *admittedly* smart and hijacked the best of Germanic DNA.

    But make no mistake...that 'greatness' is Germanic Christian DNA at heart.

    You don't see a lot of dark-arab-skinned Orthodox types doing a lot of progressin'.

    It’s like another kind of one-drop-rule.

  175. @Robbie
    I think it's safe to say that it all goes back to Who Invented the Wheel (pre-dating religion...back when we had fur)

    That Germanic Area of Europe is where the wheel was invented and everything of worth on this planet has DNA roots going back to that area.

    And it's also safe to say that the majority of the DNA from that area decided to become Christian, with some of it hop-skipping over to Judaism.

    Jews owe a lot to that DNA whether they want to admit it or not.

    And I still stand by my thesis...if you put up a photo of The Average Israeli...then compare it to the Average Jewish Scientist....the Average Jewish Scientist is a hell of a lot more 'Germanic' looking.

    That’s because Israeli Jews are equally divided (roughly) between Sephardic and Ashkenazi, whereas most Average Jewish Scientists are Ashkenazi. Also the average Israeli gets more sun and ends up darker over time. If you compare the Average Jewish Scientist to the average Israeli Ashkenazi Jew they look exactly the same (accounting for suntan) because they ARE exactly the same.

    On the DNA stuff, you are just wrong. We now have actual data on whose DNA comes from where and it is nothing like what you say. Anyway, German contributions to math and science are very recent (Jewish contributions even more so) – in the ancient world where the Greeks and the Romans were working out geometry, logic, etc. the Germans were literally the “barbarians” – bearded guys living in mud huts and painted blue.

  176. @Jack D
    Sorry, no. Jews look like Germans only to the extent that a lot of Germans don't look like Germans. Ashkenazi Jews have a big European DNA component but it's southern European, not Germanic. The intermixing occurred long before the Jews showed up in Northern Europe.

    However, Jews can thank the German speaking educational system for their contributions. Before you-know-who, German universities were the finest in the world and attracted the best scholars, some of whom were Jewish. The Jewish educational system created some great thinkers, but unfortunately they spent all of their time concerned with questions like what do you do with an egg that was laid on Sabbath instead of on the structure of the atom. It was only when Jews were allowed (and wanted) to join the Western mainstream that you had this Big Bang explosion as Jewish brains applied themselves to Western problems.

    ” Jews can thank the German speaking educational system for their contributions.” So? I agree with that. Plus the USA universities also. I am grateful. What more can I say?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Who asked you to say anything? My point is that when people are open to letting smart people of any race or color make a contribution, then amazing things can happen. It's not a coincidence that the world's top universities (with a considerable Jewish component) are now in the US and not in Germany anymore. Now "any race or color" doesn't mean that blacks, with a mean group IQ of 85 or so, are suddenly going to start dominating the Nobels now that whitey is no longer barring the door. Not gonna happen. But I do expect to see a lot more Asian contributions in the future.
  177. JSM says:
    @Ali Choudhury
    It was a fine thing to say if he was angling for the white nationalist vote. A dumb one if he was looking to cast the Democrats as the black party and the GOP as the non-black party.

    the GOP as the non-black party.

    Why the hell would he want to do that? As Steve has elucidated, GOP as the White people’s party can still win it, if the GOP would give us someone to vote for (and that criteria includes someone who actually has our interests as White people at heart, and doesn’t throw us under the bus in order to pander to non-black non-whites.)

    You new here? Go do your reading assignment. http://www.vdare.com/articles/election-2010-and-the-unmentionable-sailer-strategy-white-vote-still-key

    • Replies: @Ali Choudhury
    https://www.vdare.com/articles/sailer-strategy-supplement-rebrand-democrats-as-the-black-party

    I have been here a while.
  178. @Harry Baldwin
    The best man to represent the white team in the media would be the brilliant, well-informed, even-tempered, and entirely reasonable Jared Taylor. Why don't they feature him as the "racist" non-white America can hate on? Because he's too good at defending the "huWhite" position.

    Are you serious? Jared is right about many things but cringingly bad at selling his positions in debates.

    (Sorry, Jared, but even Moses needed Aaron…)

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    I saw Jared Taylor at Towson College defending his views to a hostile, but well-behaved, black audience. He did very well. It's on YouTube.
  179. @utu
    A 3rd rate scientist usually knows that he isn't a 1st rate. A 2nd rate scientist often makes a mistake that he is a 1st rate. The same mistake make his followers and acolytes. Murray is 2nd rate. Also his field is rather strange. The field that deals with intelligence of others is populated with bores and mediocrities in both temperament and intelligence.

    The field that deals with intelligence of others is populated with bores and mediocrities in both temperament and intelligence.

    Boors or bores? Mediocrities like Shockley and Watson?

    What is the reason for that? Is it because it is such a tar baby that anyone with any brains and/or social skills refuses to touch it? Isn’t that convenient – you turn a whole field of study into a mine field and then you complain that there is no one good out there plowing the field. You first. It’s like the textbook definition of chutzpah – someone who kills his parents and then pleads for mercy because he is an orphan.

    • Replies: @guest
    You may be correct about the why, and it may not be intrinsic, but in the meantime, before society wakes up (and maybe it never will) it remains a fact. Watson and Shockley weren't in the intelligence field, primarily. They just recognized the truth of it, the former in a very mild way.
    , @IBC
    Very good analysis.
  180. JSM says:
    @War for Blair Mountain
    The Gruman Corp LEM was designed and built by Native Born White American Male Engineers,Technicians and Machinist. Two Alpha Native Born White American Astronauts descended from The Gruman Corp LEM onto the surface of the Moon in 1969.

    America 1969:90 percent Native Born White American...Gruman Corp 99 percent Native Born White American Male.

    I think we all know how to make America Great Again...for Native Born White Americans.

    I attended Donald Trump's Gruman Corp Rally two months ago..The surrounding area annexed by India because of psychopathic Gruman Corp Executive's Greed. Not a peep out of Donald Trump about this as he was screaming out of his mouth:"MAKE AMERICAN GREAT AGAIN!!!!"

    Who cares if Donald Trump brings back call center jobs from India...The Hindus in India can keep these jobs for all I care.

    Groovy, I get you’re enraged by the dot-Indians. You should be. But in a speech it’s not possible to cover every point, and missed opportunities, like pointing out Gruman’s importation of dot-Indians, abound.

    But, *do* consider Mr. Trump’s position statement. Forcing corps. to pay higher wages to H1-B visa holders and forcing them to hire Americans first, will do a lot to change this hooey of Gruman’s.

    https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

  181. @Jack D
    And peanut butter. Don't forget peanut butter. So (even conceding your list, which is dubious) you have elevators, microphones, pacemakers, (peanut butter) vs. EVERY OTHER DAMN THING.

    The point is, you are totally allowed to hate on white people - can't wait until all those old white people are dead and no longer in charge. It's a perfectly acceptable sentiment to express. But if you say anything that is the teeny tiniest bit negative about non-whites or express that Western culture is has made greater contributions, then Nelly bar the door - you're a racis'. So it's really not possible to have a "conversation" when one side is free to express its thoughts but the other side is pre-constrained even before they are allowed to open their mouth.

    It’s true–when all the old whites are gone, good riddance. AI will take over inventing and then all the brown folks won’t notice the difference. But the AI won’t take them any more seriously than “WN”s.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    What happens if we can't quite make the leap - if the whites all die off before they have invented strong AI to replace themselves?
  182. @unit472
    It is perhaps unfortunate that the computer industry developed during an era when terms and nomenclature became acronyms or bland academic jargon instead of being given the name of the discoverer or developer. This is in contrast to an earlier era where old white men like Volta, Watt and Ohm were honored by having their names used to describe the fundamentals of the fields they pioneered.

    Had the previous method been used it would be impossible for the anti white male legions to reference computers technology and software without having to mention the names of the old white men who created the field.

    Modern high tech fields have a lot of nonwhite diversity, but it’s overwhelmingly East Asian and South Asian. There are some Hispanics, but not a ton–and there are almost no blacks. In some fields (biology) there are a lot of women; in others (computers, EE) there are a few women.

  183. utu says:
    @Svigor
    Jews are another case of the mighty two-edged sword. They've achieved very little that wasn't predicated on European (or other host) civilization's achievements. Starting with "Jewish emancipation" (a stupid term, as Europeans have dragged Jews precisely nowhere, other than out of their shtetls.).

    You should elaborate on why Jews before emancipation basically contributed nothing to what we consider civilization: zero science, zero in engineering, zero visual arts, almost zero in literature, very little in philosophy, very little in music. Prior to the emancipation they were prominent in medicine (mostly charlatanic) and finances (mostly predatory).

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    You should elaborate on why Jews before emancipation basically contributed nothing to what we consider civilization: zero science, zero in engineering, zero visual arts, almost zero in literature, very little in philosophy, very little in music. Prior to the emancipation they were prominent in medicine (mostly charlatanic) and finances (mostly predatory).
     
    As I understand it, Jews focused a lot on discussions about practical ethics, so that's an area of philosophy they were always active in. It's not clear to me whether much of those discussions impacted wider Western Civ or became mainstream. But Maimonedes and Spinoza do come to mind.
  184. @Corvinus
    "In any event, the “white males need to go” narrative is shit..."

    As is "Jews control everything in America, and people are too stupid to realize it".

    As is "Black lives matters is the root cause for violent reprisals against cops".

    As is "White people created modernity--never minding how we accomplished it--and what the horrific things we did do, so did other groups, and it wasn't nearly as bad as them".

    As is "Only true white people remain with their own kind, and promote their own agenda, and never race mix, for that represents degeneracy".

    How do YOU feel about that last one in particular?

    As is “Black lives matters is the root cause for violent reprisals against cops”.

    So you are saying that BLM has nothing to do with the recent shootings, that a couple of crazy guys just happened to target cops and were in no way inspired by BLM? That if BLM (and the giant media machine that they have set in motion) had not gone crazy every time the police shoot a black person that these guys would have done the same thing?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "So you are saying that BLM has nothing to do with the recent shootings..."

    BLM is the result, not the root cause as I clearly stated, of the racial manipulations of the Coalition of the Right Fringe groups and the Coalition of the Left Fringe groups.
  185. @Jack D
    The Romans had water and sewage systems 2,000 years ago without steam engines. Gravity is your friend.

    Before there were steam engines, there was water power. For stationary machinery, anything that you can do with a steam engine you can do with water power (or wind) The first automated looms ran on water power and for sewing machines human power was adequate.

    However, water and wind power is only present in certain places and in limited quantity. Quantity has its own quality - steam (followed by electricity and the internal combustion engine) allowed an explosion (no pun intended) of industrial production and its application to transportation (rail, steamboat) was even more revolutionary than in stationary applications.

    The total output of an industrial system is largely a function of the energy inputs. The discovery of fossil fuels and of effective methods to convert heat to motion greatly increased the available energy inputs.

    The total output of an industrial system is largely a function of the energy inputs. The discovery of fossil fuels and of effective methods to convert heat to motion greatly increased the available energy inputs.

    One of the often overlooked fossil fuels is peat. During the Dutch golden age they used massive amounts to fuel their industries. Kinetic energy came from the wind but thermal energy was provided by peat.

    For example in 1662 more than half of the European sugar refineries were situated in the Netherlands. All powered by peat.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    One of the often overlooked fossil fuels is peat. During the Dutch golden age they used massive amounts to fuel their industries. Kinetic energy came from the wind but thermal energy was provided by peat.

    For example in 1662 more than half of the European sugar refineries were situated in the Netherlands. All powered by peat.
     

    Newcomen's invention of the thermally fired steam pump in 1712 figured out how to convert heat to kinetic energy—50 years later, James Watt greatly improved the efficiency and changed the design to provide rotary motion as well.

    Those earlier 17th c. Dutch sugar refineries used peat simply in lieu of firewood or coal and did not use thermal energy to do mechanical work.

  186. @Daniel H
    >>BTW, nasty crowd at RNC. What happened to 90% of the planet?

    90% of the planet are not American citizens, so why should we give a damn about them?

    Because they are now better than you? Maybe?

    • Replies: @Salger
    Better at what? Cheap labor and targets for cops?
  187. @Gunnar von Cowtown
    You should check out some alt-right podcasts.

    -Richard Spencer
    -Greg Johnson
    -Vox Day
    -Milo
    ...are all extremely articulate.

    If you wanna dip your toe into The Right Stuff Radio pool,
    -Jazzhands McFeels
    -Halberstram
    -Seventh Son
    -Reactionary Tree
    .... are also very articulate despite their zany pseudonyms.

    I wonder if one issue is that there are hbd and paleocon insights that are just not things that can be said in polite company. That means that if you are trying to broaden the Overton window from inside it–pushing the boundaries while not making yourself a pariah–you have a much harder mental task than someone who has abandoned that effort and just says what they think, having already been pushed out of polite company where politics are concerned.

    It’s easier to be articulate if you are concentrating on explaining your views rather than trying to solve a tricky social/word puzzle about how to express those views without being lynched.

    • Replies: @Gunnar von Cowtown

    It’s easier to be articulate if you are concentrating on explaining your views rather than trying to solve a tricky social/word puzzle about how to express those views without being lynched.
     
    That's very logical. It also explains why /pol/ memes pack more rhetorical punch than anything beginning with a defensive disclaimer.
    , @Federalist
    Good point. King, to his credit, made a point that is never expressed in public. He didn't push the issue further. When the host asked if he was talking about white people, King talked about Western Civilization and Christianity. Not that he was wrong, but what if he would have said, "Yes, I'm talking about white people. What the hell has anyone else done?" When the black woman was freaking out and babbling something about Africa, King could have said let's talk about Africa. Simply on the merits, King would have destroyed them. I think that the host was smart enough to realize this. It would be like debating whether the better team is the local little league team or the New York Yankees. King let it drop when the host suddenly decided that they weren't going to argue (on a news network show that consists of people arguing). I can't fault King at all. He said more than anyone else has in recent history.
  188. @Discard
    A good teacher learns to handle questions off the cuff. Doing six successful shows a day for lively audiences ready to take advantage of your hesitation or errors is good training for any public speaker.

    That’s an awesome insight. One of my go to examples for great ‘quick on feet’ speakers is exactly that – an ex-teacher.

    Still, I know another ex-teacher and he is not in the same league. Some people are just talented.

    • Replies: @Discard
    I did say "good teacher". There are a great many mediocrities, and much worse. But teaching is powerful life training for someone with a quick mind.
    , @mobi
    It is an interesting insight.

    Against that, I can say from experience that acquiring the skills to be quick on your feet in front of classes of teens/20-somethings doesn't necessarily translate that well to audiences of what you consider your peers.
  189. @Anonymous Nephew
    OT. That Plomin fellow is at it again.

    http://medicalxpress.com/news/2016-07-scientists-herald-ability-academic-dna.html

    "Scientists herald 'tipping point' in ability to predict academic achievement from DNA.

    Scientists from King's College London have used a new genetic scoring technique to predict academic achievement from DNA alone. This is the strongest prediction from DNA of a behavioural measure to date. "

    That Plomin fellow is at it again.

    I think this is the paper:
    http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp2016107a.html

  190. @Corvinus
    "In any event, the “white males need to go” narrative is shit..."

    As is "Jews control everything in America, and people are too stupid to realize it".

    As is "Black lives matters is the root cause for violent reprisals against cops".

    As is "White people created modernity--never minding how we accomplished it--and what the horrific things we did do, so did other groups, and it wasn't nearly as bad as them".

    As is "Only true white people remain with their own kind, and promote their own agenda, and never race mix, for that represents degeneracy".

    How do YOU feel about that last one in particular?

    I don’t agree with any of those statements. But I’m more interested in hearing an intelligent argument either way than in bashing someone for making those arguments.

  191. JSM says:
    @bomag
    I guess we've seen what Man can achieve. And why we can't sustain it.

    I guess this is the answer to the Fermi Paradox:

    When an intelligent species has evolved sufficiently that one of its subspecies
    starts inventing all the technology necessary to escape the gravity well of its home planet, the less-capable subspecies, in their jealousy, browbeat the inventive subspecies into breeding itself out of existence.

    And the whole muddled mess devolves back into pond slime.

    So, the tragedy is, the Great Filter is before us, not behind us. And that filter is Pathological Altruism.

    • Replies: @Cryptogenic

    I guess this is the answer to the Fermi Paradox:

    When an intelligent species has evolved sufficiently that one of its subspecies
    starts inventing all the technology necessary to escape the gravity well of its home planet, the less-capable subspecies, in their jealousy, browbeat the inventive subspecies into breeding itself out of existence.

    And the whole muddled mess devolves back into pond slime.

    So, the tragedy is, the Great Filter is before us, not behind us. And that filter is Pathological Altruism.
     
    To paraphrase Robin Hanson: Something out there is checking white privilege, and you're next.

    (You may have already read it but I loved Nick Land's demented FP speculation novella Phyl-Undhu.)
    , @anon
    Yes. The Left hated and starved the space program not because it was wasteful but because it was so spectacularly white.
  192. @Discard
    A good teacher learns to handle questions off the cuff. Doing six successful shows a day for lively audiences ready to take advantage of your hesitation or errors is good training for any public speaker.

    To say nothing of the repetition factor.

  193. @Yep
    You bring up a good point about him not being articulate. There appear to be no pols with alt right leanings that are good speakers except for Trump.That's a problem. If I said what King said to some of my conservative relatives and friends they would think it's racist too. The reason is we just don't have good speakers who can get these ideas across, or in this case just get facts across.

    Higher education sucks up bright minds and indoctrinates them. As for the ones who manage to escape thought prison, they’re usually smart enough to see how to get ahead, and that’s obviously not by being an “alt-right”-er. The smartest don’t usually become politicians, anyway, though there are some exceptionally bright ones.

  194. So I type in Steve King on google and on the “people also search for” tool it directs me to Harriet Tubman first….

    Is google doing this on purpose?

  195. @Andy
    how ignorant is the representative? doesn't he know that Einstein plagiarized General Relativity from his African maid?

    I recall that now! The maid, Beulah, said, “Missuh Einstein, when I be nappin’ de time sho goes faster than when I be moppin’!” and then a light bulb lit up in Einstein’s head.

  196. @Jack D

    The field that deals with intelligence of others is populated with bores and mediocrities in both temperament and intelligence.
     
    Boors or bores? Mediocrities like Shockley and Watson?


    What is the reason for that? Is it because it is such a tar baby that anyone with any brains and/or social skills refuses to touch it? Isn't that convenient - you turn a whole field of study into a mine field and then you complain that there is no one good out there plowing the field. You first. It's like the textbook definition of chutzpah - someone who kills his parents and then pleads for mercy because he is an orphan.

    You may be correct about the why, and it may not be intrinsic, but in the meantime, before society wakes up (and maybe it never will) it remains a fact. Watson and Shockley weren’t in the intelligence field, primarily. They just recognized the truth of it, the former in a very mild way.

  197. @MC
    It's too bad Trump can't just choose a "champion" like Steyn or Nigel Farage to debate in his place:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-zHoDANH-R8

    Steyn is my favorite Canadian import outside of Trois Pistoles.

  198. @tbraton
    Funny. (Better than "agree" in my book, which would confer a seriousness on your post it doesn't deserve. Funny is better.)

    Wouldn’t it be nice if Unz added an LOL button to Agree/Disagree?

    • Agree: Hibernian
    • Replies: @tbraton
    See my message #216 below (number may vary since it is awaiting moderation). I understand that relief is on the way. That's the rumor anyway. If it wasn't before, it is now.
  199. @George
    The problem with murray's list is nobody else is creating their own list or methodology to attempt to improve the result. Doing a quick search of Murray's bourgeois list I dont see Carl Marx. Mahler is there but not Scott Joplin *. Are there any architects? It would be interesting if a native Chinese could create a methodology and list, if it contained different names.

    * Mahler might have gotten better reviews, but Joplin sold more sheet music.

    “The problem with murray’s list is nobody else is creating their own list or methodology to attempt to improve the result. “

    Back in the late 60s the BBC ran a series called “Civilisation” which was entirely about Western civilisation.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilisation_%28TV_series%29

    “it was Attenborough who prompted the title, but because of time constraints the series only covered Western Civilisation. Clark did not “suppose that anyone could be so obtuse as to think I had forgotten about the great civilisations of the pre-Christian era and the east”, though the title continued to worry him”

    It was followed by Jacob Bronowski’s The Ascent Of Man, which was also overwhelmingly Western-oriented.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ascent_of_Man

    • Replies: @Ivy
    I confess that Bronowski's The Ascent of Man was in our home library. Our family also watched Attenborough's show, Burke's Connections show and whatever else we could find on television or check out of libraries or seek wherever that was of interest to us.

    How many kids did not know that new worlds awaited them in Egyptology (who wasn't interested in pyramids and the Sphinx?), Greek mythology or countless other topics? Many of my peers would say that they learned far more about the world outside the walls of K-12 than inside, whether on the baseball diamond, at a dance or at community events. How many neighborhoods still have picnics, without thought police asking for something like a certification and provenance of the free-range potatoes in the salad, bringing along buckets of hand sanitizer, or getting security clearances, drug screens and background checks on fellow attendees?
  200. Once again, the issue was not “who invented in everything” in the history of humanity.

    The response by King was brought on by the “optimism” at seeing whites disappear, specifically, in political leadership. It is only natural and fair, after someone else had racialized the argument, to respond along racial lines.

    In that respect, it is not even worth discussing the accomplishments of the “white race” (again, it was the other person who racialized this) over the past 600 years, or even 2,500 years. Because it is simply obvious.

    In fact, just restricting ourselves to the last 250 years, without the advances in agricultural and disease control, again, mostly by white guys, 80% of the people in “non-white” countries wouldn’t even exist. How do I know this to be true? Because there has been a fourfold/fivefold increase in those parts of the world directly related to 20th Century efforts led by white people to eradicate disease and improve crop yields.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "In fact, just restricting ourselves to the last 250 years, without the advances in agricultural and disease control, again, mostly by white guys, 80% of the people in “non-white” countries wouldn’t even exist."

    Again, assuming that these innovators yelled at the top of their lungs "Hooray, chalk one up for whitey". Rather, they made these advancements for PEOPLE.

    It's really amazing to me that some people are so hung up on the "without whites, non-whites wouldn't exist" ideology. Does the average American care? Should they?
    , @Jack D
    Yes, exactly. The rules of the rhetorical game are completely loaded and asymmetrical. People who hate whitey are free to spew hateful remarks but if you attempt to respond in kind you are a racis' and get shouted down. And then the hate whitey guys declare themselves the winner of the "conversation" and call you a racist for having the temerity to even try to contradict them or confuse them with facts.

    Here's a test. Let's take Pierce's words and reverse them, and tell me if he would ever be allowed near a public microphone again:

    “If you’re really optimistic, you can say this was the last time that _______ people would command the Democrat Party’s attention, its platform, its public face,.."

    If you substituted ANY group other than old white - Jewish, black, Latino, etc., this would be seen as pure unmitigated race hate, something befitting a Nazi, etc. But Pierce was completely comfortable spewing this race hate (against his own people no less) and what was seen as shocking was not that he said it but that someone tried to call him on it.
    , @GW

    The response by King was brought on by the “optimism” at seeing whites disappear, specifically, in political leadership. It is only natural and fair, after someone else had racialized the argument, to respond along racial lines.
     
    Great point. King showed why fighting back rhetorically is so important. After his response, the liberals on the panel weren't conducting a gleeful lecture centered around the disposition of whites but were instead having to name and defend the cultural accomplishments of non-whites. Impressive turn-about.
  201. @Unzerker

    The total output of an industrial system is largely a function of the energy inputs. The discovery of fossil fuels and of effective methods to convert heat to motion greatly increased the available energy inputs.
     
    One of the often overlooked fossil fuels is peat. During the Dutch golden age they used massive amounts to fuel their industries. Kinetic energy came from the wind but thermal energy was provided by peat.

    For example in 1662 more than half of the European sugar refineries were situated in the Netherlands. All powered by peat.

    One of the often overlooked fossil fuels is peat. During the Dutch golden age they used massive amounts to fuel their industries. Kinetic energy came from the wind but thermal energy was provided by peat.

    For example in 1662 more than half of the European sugar refineries were situated in the Netherlands. All powered by peat.

    Newcomen’s invention of the thermally fired steam pump in 1712 figured out how to convert heat to kinetic energy—50 years later, James Watt greatly improved the efficiency and changed the design to provide rotary motion as well.

    Those earlier 17th c. Dutch sugar refineries used peat simply in lieu of firewood or coal and did not use thermal energy to do mechanical work.

  202. @Mr. Anon
    Don't forget the mop. And the traffic light. Those are also things that black people falsely claim to have been invented by black people.

    There are a lot of black invention myths. Probably because there have been so few things (actual things) invented by black people.

    You can’t take the Supersoaker away from them. I can honestly say it revolutionized my childhood water wars.

  203. @Mr. Anon
    Don't forget the mop. And the traffic light. Those are also things that black people falsely claim to have been invented by black people.

    There are a lot of black invention myths. Probably because there have been so few things (actual things) invented by black people.

    Probably because there have been so few things (actual things) invented by black people.

    Well, let’s be fair, now. A Black DID invent that essential summer toy, the SuperSoaker.

  204. @Chrisnonymous
    Are you serious? Jared is right about many things but cringingly bad at selling his positions in debates.

    (Sorry, Jared, but even Moses needed Aaron...)

    I saw Jared Taylor at Towson College defending his views to a hostile, but well-behaved, black audience. He did very well. It’s on YouTube.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I watched someYouTube video Taylor. He does a nice job in presenting his case. His voice and good looks add a lot.
    Steve Sailer comes across as stiff and halting. This is the danger of simply reading and thinking about these issues. Sailer needs to interact with people. You can't learn boxing by reading instruction books on boxing. Sailer needs to hang out with Linh Dinh in bars interacting with people.
    Hitchens got good at talking and arguing with other boys (no girls) from boarding schools and Oxford. I've seen Hitchens rip apart very intelligent, elite-educated Americans. But when he went against Galloway (not an intellectual) Galloway got the better of him. Galloway was like Ali and Hitchens like Frazier.
  205. @Unzerker

    Even toilet paper, that unmentionable but indispensable adjunct to life is only possible with steam engined or some such to ‘grind up the trees’.
     
    The first water powered paper mill dates from the 12th century. European of course.

    Europe made extensively use of water and wind powered machines before the invention of the steam engine. It's partly because of this that steam engines become so popular. They could switch to a more reliable source to power their complex machines.

    In China and India everything was done by hand so there really was no use for a steam engine if the first place.

    Europe made extensively use of water and wind powered machines before the invention of the steam engine. It’s partly because of this that steam engines become so popular. They could switch to a more reliable source to power their complex machines.

    The other big reason is that a steam engine can be set up anywhere, unlike a water mill, which has to be beside a stream or river, or a windmill, which has to be built where there is a reliable breeze.

    In China and India everything was done by hand so there really was no use for a steam engine if the first place.

    China and India did make use of oxen to power water pumps, threshers and oil mills, as did Europe, which used horses as well for the purpose. Windmills and water mills for grinding grain were unknown in Asia, though.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    The Asians did use water power to a limited extent. They had some water powered irrigation devices and also used water power to run trip-hammer type devices. But no real Industrial Revolution. It's possible to go back in time and find isolated examples in Asia that resemble the things that would lead to the Industrial Revolution, but they were all pretty much dead ends and did not lead to the great breakthrough. They were like little bits of kindling here and there that were never able to light the great bonfire.
    , @Unzerker

    China and India did make use of oxen to power water pumps, threshers and oil mills
     
    From what I understand at a certain point in time labor became so cheap that most wind- water- and animal powered machines fell into disuse. This lead to a stagnation and regression in technological development.
  206. @NOTA
    I wonder if one issue is that there are hbd and paleocon insights that are just not things that can be said in polite company. That means that if you are trying to broaden the Overton window from inside it--pushing the boundaries while not making yourself a pariah--you have a much harder mental task than someone who has abandoned that effort and just says what they think, having already been pushed out of polite company where politics are concerned.

    It's easier to be articulate if you are concentrating on explaining your views rather than trying to solve a tricky social/word puzzle about how to express those views without being lynched.

    It’s easier to be articulate if you are concentrating on explaining your views rather than trying to solve a tricky social/word puzzle about how to express those views without being lynched.

    That’s very logical. It also explains why /pol/ memes pack more rhetorical punch than anything beginning with a defensive disclaimer.

  207. @Yep
    You bring up a good point about him not being articulate. There appear to be no pols with alt right leanings that are good speakers except for Trump.That's a problem. If I said what King said to some of my conservative relatives and friends they would think it's racist too. The reason is we just don't have good speakers who can get these ideas across, or in this case just get facts across.

    Kobach? Dissappointed he was not given a speaking slot, like you say not many out there.

  208. @Thea
    Are you saying that after the Jews arrived in Northern Europe, the genes flowed out but no longer into the Ashkenazi community? That has some interesting implications.

    I've read on this here and at WestHunter and I'm still a bit confused. So apparently it was European women & Jewish men, but early on, in Rome, maybe? Then that group left. It seems there was a big religious shift with regards to marriage after that?

    It seems there was a big religious shift with regards to marriage after that?

    Not so much religious as perhaps cultural. You see the same thing in the European settlement of the Americas. At first, a small number of young men (traders, adventurers) arrive in a place far away from home and their parents and in need of female company, so they hook up with the local women. After a while a settled community is established where the next generation can no longer do whatever they want – they are policed by their parent and clergy and the community to do what is socially expected, which is to marry within their group.

    In the shtetls, intermarriage between Jews and non-Jews was simply inconceivable. Jews and non-Jews lived in the same area, but they led completely separate lives, spoke different languages at home and neither community wanted to see their kids marry out of their group. Their religions were different and religion was not something taken lightly but governed your daily conduct from birth to death – what you ate, how you dressed, etc. The closest thing I can think of in modern American would be the Amish.

  209. @Gabriel M
    To be fair, these two talking heads didn't have time to prepare a response. Let's look at what race-denialists can put together when they have time to gather their material.

    http://www.vox.com/2016/7/18/12218672/steve-king-racist-ignorant


    "The "cradles of civilization" were in areas populated by brown people.
    The Phoenician alphabet is the basis for the modern alphabet of many languages.
    Egyptians helped bring paper and ink pens to Western civilizations — just two of the many contributions attributable to them.
    Middle Eastern scholars like Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī and Omar Khayyam invented crucial elements of algebra before they spread to Europe.
    The Chinese invented gunpowder and potentially the compass, among many other inventions.
    Indian people made many contributions to technologies we now take for granted, from farming to math.
    America was built on the slave labor of black Americans.
    There were many famous black inventors throughout US history.
    Jesus was possibly brown."


    Take that honky!

    America was built on the slave labor of black Americans.

    Is this what liberals believe? For a country that was actually “built on slave labor” check out Trinidad or Haiti.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I've lived in Los Angeles, Chicago, and Houston and I'm trying to figure out what % of the current physical plant was built by black slave labor: I'd guesstimate, respectively, 0.0%, 0.0%, and 0.1%. Heck, I'd say those percentages are about right for all the buildings ever. (You could argue a few Missions in SoCal were built by Indian labor enslaved by Hispanics, but that doesn't come up much -- too complicated, especially now that our leftist Pope just beatified the slavemaster.)
    , @syonredux

    Is this what liberals believe? For a country that was actually “built on slave labor” check out Trinidad or Haiti.
     
    Or Brazil:

    Distribution of slaves (1519–1867)
    Destination Percentage
    Portuguese America 38.5%
    British America (minus North America) 18.4%
    Spanish Empire 17.5%
    French Americas 13.6%
    British North America 6.45%
    English Americas 3.25%
    Dutch West Indies 2.0%
    Danish West Indies 0.3%
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade
  210. @avraham
    " Jews can thank the German speaking educational system for their contributions." So? I agree with that. Plus the USA universities also. I am grateful. What more can I say?

    Who asked you to say anything? My point is that when people are open to letting smart people of any race or color make a contribution, then amazing things can happen. It’s not a coincidence that the world’s top universities (with a considerable Jewish component) are now in the US and not in Germany anymore. Now “any race or color” doesn’t mean that blacks, with a mean group IQ of 85 or so, are suddenly going to start dominating the Nobels now that whitey is no longer barring the door. Not gonna happen. But I do expect to see a lot more Asian contributions in the future.

    • Replies: @JSM

    But I do expect to see a lot more Asian contributions in the future.
     
    What I never hear explained by you Jewish and Asian Supremacists, is *why* it's White countries that do the building of the academic institutions that the Jews and Asians have to move into to get their mojo going?

    How come it ain't Jews and Asians who first built the universities, with the White folks doing anything it takes, including go to cram school, and even cheat, to get in? HMMMM?

    Same deal as, when asked why it's not an Asian who Invented the 20th Century but a White man named Nikola Tesla, they say, "Oh, Whites only seem so accomplished because they picked all the low-hanging fruit, invented and discovered all the obvious, easy stuff." They're implying, "Us Asians really are superior, trust us, but it's just taking a while to prove it because us Asians have to work so much harder to invent or discover anything new since you Europeans did all the easy stuff, picked the low-hanging fruit."

    To which I ask, well, if that low hanging fruit was so easy to pick, why didn't the Chinese just go ahead and pick it, already, 2000 years or more ago? But they didn't. No. They left it just hanging there until Europeans showed up to get it.

    Why? Because they didn't notice it. Because they're not so superior, after all.

    And *now* the Yellows want credit for winning math Olympiads (something invented and instituted by White folks.) PPPTTT.

    Meanwhile, White folks, the people who pioneer all the space exploration, are failing to secure a future for our progeny -- or even having any. We give away credit for all we've done, saying it's Humanity that done it.

    But the masses of Humanity didn't do it. They can't do it -- or they would have long ago. And with no White folks around in a thousand years, no star drive.

    THAT's the answer to the Fermi Paradox.

    The Great Filter that prevents there being star-faring civilizations is right in front of the intelligence that arose on Earth. And it's this:

    As soon as an intelligent species arises, the subspecies responsible for pioneering all the science and inventions necessary to get out of the home planet's gravity well goes and commits suicide-through-failure-to-reproduce due to depression from the browbeating they get by the jealous, less-capable members of the other subspecies.
    So, no star drive.

    , @Nico

    I do expect to see a lot more Asian contributions in the future.
     
    I don't. If anything I expect the opposite as their numbers continue to swell to the point where their obsessions turn away from solving the "Western problems" you mentioned earlier and toward more insular ethnocentric interests. Check out the dullness of Asian Berkeley vs the dynamism of White Berkeley and you can understand why Harvard, et. al. pursue a policy of systematic anti-East Asian discrimination.

    In the modern West, minorities can only assimilate (or in the case of the Jews appear to assimilate) when their numbers are small enough that they can enrich Western civilization with outside leaven and spice rather than puffing up as a kind of semi-autonomous "side item" with all their particular vices as well as their few virtues.

    I would guess this has something to do with the ongoing decline of the media and the academy in modern America. The intelligentsia is so disproportionately Jewish that the dominant modern bourgeois culture has to be considered at least partially synonymous with modern Jewish culture.
  211. @Chrisnonymous
    It's true--when all the old whites are gone, good riddance. AI will take over inventing and then all the brown folks won't notice the difference. But the AI won't take them any more seriously than "WN"s.

    What happens if we can’t quite make the leap – if the whites all die off before they have invented strong AI to replace themselves?

  212. Ironically progressives’ ideas about the fungibility of all human minds and the omnipotence of education to turn dumb people into smart people derive from the most important wrong philosopher you’ve probably never heard of: the 18th Century white French philosophe Claude Adrien Helvétius:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Adrien_Helv%C3%A9tius

    And this guy looked really white, judging from the surviving portraits of him.

    • Replies: @guest
    I always blamed that on people like John Locke and William Godwin. Then again, my education has been Anglocentric, for the obvious reason that I'm USican and speak English.
    , @Rob McX
    It was perhaps less ridiculous to believe in the blank slate theory back then, seeing that so many people's lives were blighted by lack of education, malnutrition, etc. Even Thomas Jefferson said that it was possible that blacks might one day achieve equality with whites (while insisting they could not inhabit the same territory nonetheless).
  213. Recently my local public library had a “World Literature Month.”

    It isn’t hard to imagine the possibilities to something good from all over the world to inspire young imaginations.

    The poster showing works specifically for young readers captured the spirit of own culture more than any foreign ones. They had plenty of the usual “tales of oppression” from Africa, Latin America and Asia.

    For Europe, I’ll let you think about what topic they picked to represent an entire continent and its millennia of drama and history… You can probably guess.

    Yes for Europe, they had a single book. It was about the Jews fate in the Holocaust.

    The sad thing about the whole exercise of our post-modern glorification of history’s losers and victims, is that there are so many interesting stories from around the world. Stories of character, courage and heroism… and I don’t just mean the military kind. Even folk tales from various traditions and cultures around the world would tell us more about these cultures than our post-modern obsession with losers.

    For example, the Jews have so many more interesting stories to read. Show us those lesser known Yiddish folk tales told for centuries in Europe. Probably some interesting stuff there? Furthermore I doubt many immigrants from Asia, Africa and Latin America are very familiar with the greatest hits from the Old Testament. Whatever we think of the myths, legends and theology, it’s hard to deny that the story of Moses and Abraham are an indispensible part of cultural literacy.

  214. @SPMoore8
    Once again, the issue was not "who invented in everything" in the history of humanity.

    The response by King was brought on by the "optimism" at seeing whites disappear, specifically, in political leadership. It is only natural and fair, after someone else had racialized the argument, to respond along racial lines.

    In that respect, it is not even worth discussing the accomplishments of the "white race" (again, it was the other person who racialized this) over the past 600 years, or even 2,500 years. Because it is simply obvious.

    In fact, just restricting ourselves to the last 250 years, without the advances in agricultural and disease control, again, mostly by white guys, 80% of the people in "non-white" countries wouldn't even exist. How do I know this to be true? Because there has been a fourfold/fivefold increase in those parts of the world directly related to 20th Century efforts led by white people to eradicate disease and improve crop yields.

    “In fact, just restricting ourselves to the last 250 years, without the advances in agricultural and disease control, again, mostly by white guys, 80% of the people in “non-white” countries wouldn’t even exist.”

    Again, assuming that these innovators yelled at the top of their lungs “Hooray, chalk one up for whitey”. Rather, they made these advancements for PEOPLE.

    It’s really amazing to me that some people are so hung up on the “without whites, non-whites wouldn’t exist” ideology. Does the average American care? Should they?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Try some reading comprehension. The controversy was kicked off by a left wing white journalist gloating about the demographic decline of white America.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    Norman Borlaug (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug) probably saved 100+ million people from starvation but what is he to Western Civilization compared to Noble Prize winner Rigoberta Menchú? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigoberta_Mench%C3%BA) or Rosa Parks or Harriet Tubman?
    , @Clyde
    We'll put you on Planet Corv where indigenous stalwarts like Rigoberta Menchús win all the Nobel Prizes while the rest of the iSteve readers will live on planet N where Norman Borlaug types win all the Nobel Prizes.
  215. @Jack D

    As is “Black lives matters is the root cause for violent reprisals against cops”.
     
    So you are saying that BLM has nothing to do with the recent shootings, that a couple of crazy guys just happened to target cops and were in no way inspired by BLM? That if BLM (and the giant media machine that they have set in motion) had not gone crazy every time the police shoot a black person that these guys would have done the same thing?

    “So you are saying that BLM has nothing to do with the recent shootings…”

    BLM is the result, not the root cause as I clearly stated, of the racial manipulations of the Coalition of the Right Fringe groups and the Coalition of the Left Fringe groups.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    BLM is the result of George Soros' money.
  216. @PiltdownMan

    Europe made extensively use of water and wind powered machines before the invention of the steam engine. It’s partly because of this that steam engines become so popular. They could switch to a more reliable source to power their complex machines.
     
    The other big reason is that a steam engine can be set up anywhere, unlike a water mill, which has to be beside a stream or river, or a windmill, which has to be built where there is a reliable breeze.

    In China and India everything was done by hand so there really was no use for a steam engine if the first place.
     
    China and India did make use of oxen to power water pumps, threshers and oil mills, as did Europe, which used horses as well for the purpose. Windmills and water mills for grinding grain were unknown in Asia, though.

    The Asians did use water power to a limited extent. They had some water powered irrigation devices and also used water power to run trip-hammer type devices. But no real Industrial Revolution. It’s possible to go back in time and find isolated examples in Asia that resemble the things that would lead to the Industrial Revolution, but they were all pretty much dead ends and did not lead to the great breakthrough. They were like little bits of kindling here and there that were never able to light the great bonfire.

  217. @Svigor

    King is correct in his observations, but I don’t get the value of racial self-congratulations. They accomplish what objective in a political context?
     
    Well, you see, there's this thing, where white nations, and only white nations, are being erased. There's this thing, where the white race, and only the white race, is now considered disposable. There's this thing, where white people, and only white people, are the villains of history.

    Get it now, dummy?

    Your kind made White Nationalism inevitable.

    “Well, you see, there’s this thing, where white nations, and only white nations, are being erased. There’s this thing, where the white race, and only the white race, is now considered disposable. There’s this thing, where white people, and only white people, are the villains of history.”

    See, there is thing called white people who make their own racial decisions, who seek to live with people they have things in common with. Then there are other white people who say the white people who are exercising their own liberty are “anti-white”, vilifying freedom of association.

  218. That phrase also works if you change it to “women”, but that’s even more taboo.

    It’s unfair and depressing, but civilization is only made by white men. And as long as we do not accept that fact, we’ll keep on damaging it.

    • Replies: @Kylie
    "It’s unfair and depressing, but civilization is only made by white men."

    Why unfair and depressing?
  219. @JSM
    the GOP as the non-black party.

    Why the hell would he want to do that? As Steve has elucidated, GOP as the White people's party can still win it, if the GOP would give us someone to vote for (and that criteria includes someone who actually has our interests as White people at heart, and doesn't throw us under the bus in order to pander to non-black non-whites.)

    You new here? Go do your reading assignment. http://www.vdare.com/articles/election-2010-and-the-unmentionable-sailer-strategy-white-vote-still-key
  220. @Anonymous Nephew
    OT. That Plomin fellow is at it again.

    http://medicalxpress.com/news/2016-07-scientists-herald-ability-academic-dna.html

    "Scientists herald 'tipping point' in ability to predict academic achievement from DNA.

    Scientists from King's College London have used a new genetic scoring technique to predict academic achievement from DNA alone. This is the strongest prediction from DNA of a behavioural measure to date. "

    This is the strongest prediction from DNA of a behavioural measure to date.

    That’s not saying much – they were able to account for 10% of academic variation using 71 genes. Accounting for 10% of variation is little more than useless.

    • Replies: @candid_observer
    According to the article:

    Their findings show that what makes students achieve differently in their educational achievement is strongly affected by DNA differences; on average those with a higher polygenic score would obtain a grade between A and B, whereas those with a lower score obtained an entire grade below in terms of GCSE scores at age 16. As well as this, 65 per cent of people in the higher polygenic group went on to do A-levels, whereas only 35 per cent from the lower group did so.
     
    It's a general mistake to think that a low number for the amount of variation explained translates into uselessness in prediction.

    Prediction of such things is hard even with the very best metrics -- effective noise always plays a big role.

    The polygenic score isn't where it needs to be yet for use in these settings, but it seems reasonable to say it's reached a tipping point. One wonders if it isn't already the best possible predictor for very young children, for whom other kinds of tests may be close to useless.
    , @AnotherDad

    That’s not saying much – they were able to account for 10% of academic variation using 71 genes. Accounting for 10% of variation is little more than useless.
     
    Jack, why in the heck are you pissing on 10%?

    You and I both know this was never going to be like say skin color or even height. Intelligence and personality traits are the main thing selection has been working on the last 10,000 or so, along with disease resistance. The traits that lead to academic success will involve thousands of genes and interaction effects.

    This is "academic variation", which includes a large "environmental"--i.e. noise, peer groups, family culture, etc.--component. (Larger than for a flat our "IQ" measurement.) In a modern society i'd estimate--SWAG--probably account for 60 or 70% of the variation. And they've found 10% of with 70 genes. I'd call that pretty darn interesting.
  221. One of the greatest tricks the Left ever pulled was consolidating the media–the news and the entertainment industries—around cartels they controlled.

    Using the FCC, unions, and the studio system, the Left made sure that only a few could get things on the air, in the theaters, or in the newspapers. The use of copyright laws, labor laws, and just straight-up intimidation built them the only megaphone in town.

    Samizdat opposition was always around, but gradually whittled away. Fox News was a center-right bastion that severely annoyed them, and the internet is something that exploded in their faces. But Murdoch/Ailes are getting old, and the station in ten years will be falling into line. Meanwhile, the Left is slowly gaining control of the internet–the Internet Kill Switch being an overt one, the various NSA/CIA hacks on the internet being covert ones—until it, too, is under control.

    Next civilizations: make sure you control the megaphone!

  222. @Steve Sailer
    Steyn's hugely gifted, but he lives in New Hampshire so he can't do big time TV all that regularly. You pretty much have to live in New York or Washington (or Atlanta if you are on CNN) or L.A. (if you are more entertainment than news).

    A long time ago I was counting up how many times I'd been on TV and I came up with around ten. I estimated back then then I'd need to be on TV at least 100 times to make any progress toward being recognizable, and I now think that was an underestimate.

    And TV appearances generally don't pay.

    I’ve done local radio, which, for some reason, gave me credibility that writing alone didn’t. You want to make your case firmly but politely, leave the door open to a second invitation by not boxing in your moderator or panelists too badly, plus, you want to keep your day job, and make sure you’re ready for threats from the ignorati among the listening audience. Practice, practice, practice–I did maybe twenty or thirty hours with a proxy questioner before hitting the mike for a half-hour show.

    “And TV appearances generally don’t pay.” I wouldn’t want to touch public debate again without institutional support—money and the endorsement of somebody important that whatever you’re doing is worthwhile.

  223. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    I saw Jared Taylor at Towson College defending his views to a hostile, but well-behaved, black audience. He did very well. It's on YouTube.

    I watched someYouTube video Taylor. He does a nice job in presenting his case. His voice and good looks add a lot.
    Steve Sailer comes across as stiff and halting. This is the danger of simply reading and thinking about these issues. Sailer needs to interact with people. You can’t learn boxing by reading instruction books on boxing. Sailer needs to hang out with Linh Dinh in bars interacting with people.
    Hitchens got good at talking and arguing with other boys (no girls) from boarding schools and Oxford. I’ve seen Hitchens rip apart very intelligent, elite-educated Americans. But when he went against Galloway (not an intellectual) Galloway got the better of him. Galloway was like Ali and Hitchens like Frazier.

  224. Watching that clip was inflammatory not so much because of what King said, but because..

    “If you’re really optimistic, you can say this was the last time that old white people would command the Republican Party’s attention, its platform, its public face,”

    The liberals themselves have been engaging in racial politics since at least the 1960’s. Since the lower class and middle class whites in the past just always took it in good stride, the left has developed a deep seated expectation that whites will always countenance leftist racial politics while remaining neutral about their own racial interests.

    I wonder how it would change things if whites quit doing this en mass following Steven King’s example. Would this force white liberals to finally grow up? Na, probably not.

    I hope Steve King’s career doesn’t fall to pieces over this however.

  225. @Numinous

    Jesus was possibly brown
     
    Actually, it would be weird if he wasn't. He would have been a freak, and would have stuck out like a sore thumb. Or maybe the white supremacists think that he was, and perhaps he was crucified because of his surrounding society's anti-white ideology?

    He was probably about as “brown” as say Bashar Assad. Palestinians have a large admixture from the Arabian Peninsula and even a little African so they are somewhat brown, but the original inhabitants of the area would have been more white than brown. Not Nordic blond white but roughly in the same ballpark as other Mediterranean peoples.

    • Replies: @Numinous
    Bashar Assad looks white to me, and much whiter than the median Syrian. (I suspect he has some Crusader ancestry.) I doubt Jesus would have looked that white; he'd probably have had the complexion of Saddam Hussein.
  226. @PiltdownMan
    J.C. Bose was a seriously smart scientist. From what I've read, the small group of bright Indian elites of the late Victorian and Edwardian era considered themselves to be British subjects and it would have been news to them that the times they lived in, and the world centered around London was anything less than the pinnacle of human achievement and thought. Steve King's remarks would have seemed unexceptional to them, a self-evident truth scarcely worth uttering.

    While they were culturally Indian in their home lives, they were Englishmen for all practical purposes in their public and professional lives and jumped in wholesale into that milieu.

    If you read what Gandhi wrote in his earlier years, he sounds and writes exactly like a Victorian Brit, with all the energy, industriousness, and interest in a variety of theories and self-experimentation that characterized that cohort. Interestingly, those few Indians who had the financial resources to travel to England and work or study there were treated pretty much like any other British subjects from the more Anglo parts of the empire. I believe a couple of Indians were even elected to the British parliament from the very English constituencies of that time.

    I mostly agree with you, but disagree in some important ways. The British achievement was in creating a good and fair society where people could flourish and make progress in understanding the world (i.e., science.) Now that was indeed the pinnacle of human (or national, if you will) organization at the time, and well worth emulating, as many people around the world tried to do. But such a role has been played by different people and different empires throughout the course of known history. During their heydey, even the Ottoman Empire was considered to be a better place to live and thrive compared to the fragmented European polities to its north and west. And various other non-white civilizations have played this role of being the pinnacle of human civilization at a certain point in time, so much so that others strove to emulate them.

    This is very different from the blanket denunciation and contempt implied by Rep. King’s question: “what have non-whites ever done for civilization”. You yourself acknowledge that J.C. Bose was a great scientist, but then you seem to incorporate him into your notion of “white”, because he was culturally Anglicized, and being a subject of the Empire made his career possible. I agree with that to some extent, but 99% of the commenters who hang out on this forum would likely disagree with you. Based on my experience here, people believe that white is white and non-white is non-white, and the latter (on an individual or collective basis) have never done anything worthy of note and never will. They would either try to discredit someone like Bose, or try to paint him as a statistical anomaly.

    Lastly, and this is a separate point, all the people (including Gandhi) who appreciated England and the time they spent there studying eventually went back to India, and found that the white colonials were unwilling to give even the most accomplished of them a modicum of respect. The concluded that British talk about justice, fairness, and human rights, was all a sham, and that for all the improvements that had occurred in the human condition within Britain herself, British rule in the colonies was as despotic as any other foreign rule had been in India or elsewhere. Such educated, Anglicized, Indians, started the Congress that eventually morphed into a nationalist movement, and the rest is history.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    This is very different from the blanket denunciation and contempt implied by Rep. King’s question: “what have non-whites ever done for civilization”.
     
    The only possible comeback to Steve King's comments would have been rhetorical, not factual. Something along the lines of "So, Rep. King, what has your sorry white ayz ever done for Western Civilization?" That would have provided humor and diluted the impact of what he said. But the others in the discussion did not have their wits about them, which is typical these days.

    Based on my experience here, people believe that white is white and non-white is non-white, and the latter (on an individual or collective basis) have never done anything worthy of note and never will. They would either try to discredit someone like Bose, or try to paint him as a statistical anomaly.
     
    People commonly believe that their own group is best described by the achievements of far right-tail individuals in their group, and that other groups are best described by their mean or left tail. It is not a logical stance, but an emotive one.

    Lastly, and this is a separate point, all the people (including Gandhi) who appreciated England and the time they spent there studying eventually went back to India, and found that the white colonials were unwilling to give even the most accomplished of them a modicum of respect.
     
    I've never understood why this was so nor have I read a good sociological or psychological explanation. In late 19th c. London, colonials were treated as just folks, regardless of color, and had access to and could operate at the highest levels of the system, such as the House of Commons or the Inns of Court. But out in the colonies, they were thrown out of first-class train compartments for being non-white, as Gandhi was in South Africa.
  227. @Yak-15
    In this case when she says "what about Africa" she will probably go on to cite things that the Egyptians invented or built. This, of course, despite the fact that Egyptian are not sub Sahara Africans similar to herself. Many blacks really do believe, unbelievably to me, that ancient Egypt was some amazing black paradise. It's bizarre.

    The black Cleopatra crowd is an entertaining and mostly harmless substratum of the duskier parts of the internet, but I do remember that the Dallas cop-killer was a member.

    Comments section bickering about the Nubian dynasties is always a good time, though. I recommend bringing up that lower Nile east Africans don’t look a thing like the immense majority of American blacks.

  228. Europeans colonizes Africa, that’s bad. The colonies prosper, that’s bad. The colonists depart, that’s good. The former colonies disintegrate, that’s what? That’s what is to be expected I guess. My mother is 99 in August, she remembers horse drawn delivery carts in the city and horse drawn trollies too. By the time she was 16 years old planes were traveling coast to coast, and we have never looked back. Whatever we leave behind, in the care of certain people, turns to trash. There is a show on Discover or the History channel, “Ancient Aliens.” The theorists on this program ascribe large chunks of ancient civilization to the handiwork of space aliens. Machu Pichu had to be the work of aliens, the stone work is so precise, blah, blah, blah. At the same time Machu Pichu was erected, Europeans were building cathedrals with 160 foot, soaring naves, copper roofs, stained glass windows, three dimensional statuary, and enough covered floor space to hold a thousand people.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Incas weren't at all bad at civil engineering.

    But still ... Chartres Cathedral ftw about sums it up.

  229. @Jack D
    King was reacting to a statement - someone (ironically himself an old white man) had just said, in effect, " I can't wait until old white people are no longer in charge of things." He was "optimistic" that this was going to be true by the time of the next convention, 4 short years from now. He was looking forward to that time, because implicitly in his view things were going to be much better without old white people in charge. Because we know that in countries and places (Zimbabwe, Detroit, etc.) where that is true, things really are better. Well at least no old honkies are standing around telling you what to do. That's much more important than whether the electricity works or whether the tap water is safe to drink.

    What SHOULD King have said? Should he have allowed this kind of nonsense (not just nonsense, but in effect an anti-white remark) to go unrebutted?

    A sarcastic comment saying something to the effect of “Yes, maybe in four years we can have a successful non white gathering like Detroit or Zimbabwe” would have been better, and probably would have let him still drop the satchel charge in their bunker at the end.

  230. @Gabriel M
    To be fair, these two talking heads didn't have time to prepare a response. Let's look at what race-denialists can put together when they have time to gather their material.

    http://www.vox.com/2016/7/18/12218672/steve-king-racist-ignorant


    "The "cradles of civilization" were in areas populated by brown people.
    The Phoenician alphabet is the basis for the modern alphabet of many languages.
    Egyptians helped bring paper and ink pens to Western civilizations — just two of the many contributions attributable to them.
    Middle Eastern scholars like Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī and Omar Khayyam invented crucial elements of algebra before they spread to Europe.
    The Chinese invented gunpowder and potentially the compass, among many other inventions.
    Indian people made many contributions to technologies we now take for granted, from farming to math.
    America was built on the slave labor of black Americans.
    There were many famous black inventors throughout US history.
    Jesus was possibly brown."


    Take that honky!

    America was built on the slave labor of black Americans.

    It’s funny then that most of the slaves were down South doing agricultural work while most of the built-up infrastructure was up North. Anyway, no one (certainly not the NFL) disputes that blacks have strong backs, but I thought we were talking about intellectual achievements. In the North, it was the Irish who were doing most of the backbreaking labor digging canals and laying rails and such, but this doesn’t entitle them to intellectual credit either.

    • Replies: @iSteveFan
    Jack,

    Add to this is that less than 10 percent of the slaves came to what is now the USA. The largest slave nation was Brazil. If America became rich due to slavery, what's up with Brazil? Brazil should be the wealthiest place on earth. And Canada, what about Canada? How in the heck could they be so wealthy without making use of of African slaves?
  231. @Steve Sailer
    Europeans probably got the compass, paper, and gunpowder from China during the Mongol era. The Chinese had some insane tech like natural gas drilling. But they didn't seem to have much sense of cumulative progress. They sort of assumed that when the dynasty fell into chaos that they'd have to start over again.

    The Chinese had some insane tech like natural gas drilling. But they didn’t seem to have much sense of cumulative progress. They sort of assumed that when the dynasty fell into chaos that they’d have to start over again.

    Do you think that Pournelle and Niven might have based some aspects of the Motie civilization on this?

  232. @Rob McX
    I'll bet the hypocritical bastard enjoys a peanut butter sandwich too, when nobody is looking.

    In the absence of a LOL key, which I understand Ron Unz is working on, I will merely say “LOL.”

  233. @Mr. Anon
    "In the 1930s -’40s America Korzybski was more famous than Einstein."

    A remarkable non-fact. Do you have any other remarkable non-factual assertions to amaze us with?

    "Some of us remember his famous disciple, S.I. Hayakawa (popularized by the media as someone who in the ’60s fought campus activists at San Jose State) who did much to spread the word of the master."

    Actually, it was San Francisco State. But I guess we have no reason to expect you to be any more right on that than anything else you have said.

    "General Semantics influenced the development of Neuro-Linguistic Programming and Dianetics."

    Dianetics? Gee, you mean we have him to thank for scientology too? Yeah, he sounds like a real benefactor of humanity.

    1. True, S. I. Hayakawa was at San Francisco State.
    A typo. 2. For a magnificent account of Korzybski’s
    life, read a recent 700-page biography by Bruce Kodish
    who happens to be Jewish and is one of many passionate
    (indirect) disciples of the man, which says something
    considering that Korzybski died in 1950. There are those
    things called books. Read them, enlighten yourself

    3. Actually, Einstein’s contributions are being reevaluated.
    There is no question he was a great physicist but he is
    increasingly seen as the last of great classical physicists
    due to his opposition to quantum mechanics. Many people
    are angry that string theories didn’t work out, thousands
    of physicists wasted their lives pursuing a chimera, and
    a growing number of people feel that Einstein pushed
    physics in the wrong direction ( by emphasizing theoretical
    postulates at the expense of empirical data. Lorentz famously
    said, “Einstein assumed what we had proved), and hence deserves
    part of the blame for the current sorry state of fundamental physics.

    There are also sociological factors. As the Old Guard in fundamental
    physics, heavily Jewish in composition, retires, it is increasingly
    being replaced by Asians (annually about 60,000 immigrate to the U.S.
    from India and India each) who have little reason to defend Einstein
    against his detractors. For a recent example, see How Einstein Ruined
    Physics by Schlafly.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    Regarding Einstein's level of fame in the U.S.
    in the 1930, let's not forget that 1. Einstein only
    immigrated to the U.S. in 1933, and wasn't that
    well known to the general public; 2. Physics was
    not well developed in America in those days, and
    the number of Jewish physics professors was very
    small; 3. Antisemitism was still very strong in the
    1930s and '40s in the U.S. - many Jews, for example,
    were suspected of being Communist sympathetizers.

    Count Korzybski, blond and blue-eyed, born in Warsaw
    and descended from an old Polish szlachta (warrior caste) family,
    lived in the U.S. since World War I, and was a very
    colorful character. Trained as an engineer, he was a war
    hero, spoke 7 languages, was accomplished in horsemanship
    and sword fights (which endeared him to the future
    Gen. Patton), fought in a number of duels, was
    a charismatic public speaker, married Mira Edgerly,
    a famous painter who was making an equivalent
    of $100-150,000 a year, and of course instantly became
    a countess, but more than anything else he had
    a talent for friendship, and knew practically everybody.
    Being a count and a war hero opened a lot of doors in
    those days.
    , @Anon 2
    Correction: annually about 60,000 immigrate to
    the U.S. from India and China each
    , @OddsBodkins
    "a growing number of people feel that Einstein pushed
    physics in the wrong direction..."

    The gold standard in theoretical physics is the standard model. It has Einstein all over it.

    Criticizing Einstein for the failures of sting theory is like criticizing James Watt for the limitations of modern reciprocating internal combustion engines.

    - A physicist
  234. @War for Blair Mountain
    The Gruman Corp LEM was designed and built by Native Born White American Male Engineers,Technicians and Machinist. Two Alpha Native Born White American Astronauts descended from The Gruman Corp LEM onto the surface of the Moon in 1969.

    America 1969:90 percent Native Born White American...Gruman Corp 99 percent Native Born White American Male.

    I think we all know how to make America Great Again...for Native Born White Americans.

    I attended Donald Trump's Gruman Corp Rally two months ago..The surrounding area annexed by India because of psychopathic Gruman Corp Executive's Greed. Not a peep out of Donald Trump about this as he was screaming out of his mouth:"MAKE AMERICAN GREAT AGAIN!!!!"

    Who cares if Donald Trump brings back call center jobs from India...The Hindus in India can keep these jobs for all I care.

    Grumman also gave the go ahead to launch Challenger waaaaaaaay out of specs in Jan of 1986. Maybe you remember what happened after that.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    NASA made them do it so school kids all over the world could hear from Christa McAuliffe. Little know fact is that the crew of the shuttle probably survived the booster explosion but then died after falling 7 - 10 long minutes into the ocean impacting at 200+ mph.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Challenger_disaster
  235. @Anon7
    It takes a certain kind of man with particular set of skills to take that first beach head. It's incredibly difficult to take and hold a point of view that everyone else tries to shout down.

    Trump does it with sheer alpha male dominance and persuasive ability. When Trump doubles down, he's digging in. Don't be pushed back into the sea. Once he's taken the beach and held it, then there's room for articulate people to be heard. A space has to be created for rational discussion (thanks, Western Civilization!); it doesn't exist on its own.

    Trump does it with sheer alpha male dominance and persuasive ability. When Trump doubles down, he’s digging in. Don’t be pushed back into the sea. Once he’s taken the beach and held it, then there’s room for articulate people to be heard.

    Great metaphor! I couldn’t have said it any better. An “articulate” person couldn’t have gotten the job done if that was their only quality. Imagine Ron Unz trying to do what Trump has done. He couldn’t have. But maybe after a Trump victory, when the dust settles, it’ll be time for men like Sailer, Unz and the whole alt right to lead a “long march through the institutions”.. That’s what’s needed more than anything else.

    I hope the alt right is up to the task when they get their chance.

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    "I hope the alt right is up to the task when they get their chance."

    No, it'll be a lot of people asking for paypal donations in between 8000 word essays about how some other guy writing 8000 word essays and asking for paypal donations is a big cuck.
    , @Anon7
    I'd add that Trump is very articulate and probably understands this completely. Any negotiation or persuasive effort is a process, you do one thing at a time, it may take months. It's not like a liberal arts essay, where you lay everything out in six double-spaced pages.

    When you start a negotiation, you demand twice what you want. You make a big space for yourself, you get everyone's full attention. The effect is to move the goal posts and get your opposition to move your way without realizing it.
  236. @Jack D
    He was probably about as "brown" as say Bashar Assad. Palestinians have a large admixture from the Arabian Peninsula and even a little African so they are somewhat brown, but the original inhabitants of the area would have been more white than brown. Not Nordic blond white but roughly in the same ballpark as other Mediterranean peoples.

    Bashar Assad looks white to me, and much whiter than the median Syrian. (I suspect he has some Crusader ancestry.) I doubt Jesus would have looked that white; he’d probably have had the complexion of Saddam Hussein.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The crusader ancestry stuff has been well and truly debunked. Will people ever stop bringing it up?
    , @silviosilver
    He wouldn't have looked Indian though. Indians are more "black" than they are "brown." The majority of them barely qualify as caucasoids.
  237. @Chrisnonymous
    Wouldn't it be nice if Unz added an LOL button to Agree/Disagree?

    See my message #216 below (number may vary since it is awaiting moderation). I understand that relief is on the way. That’s the rumor anyway. If it wasn’t before, it is now.

    • LOL: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    In the absence of a LOL key, which I understand Ron Unz is working on, I will merely say “LOL.”...That’s the rumor anyway. If it wasn’t before, it is now.
     
    Actually, I'd never said anything about working on a LOL key. But once I noticed a few of these comments, I decided to do so, and it's now been added. Although I hadn't looked at the code much in about a year, it's fortunately quite well organized, and it only took me about 30 minutes to add the LOL option.
  238. @Ali Choudhury
    It was a fine thing to say if he was angling for the white nationalist vote. A dumb one if he was looking to cast the Democrats as the black party and the GOP as the non-black party.

    So you think becoming the party that represents 87% of Americans is a worse electoral strategy than being the party that represents 13%? Math isn’t a strong suit for you, I guess.

  239. @SPMoore8
    I have a lot of admiration for George Washington Carver, who spent a lot of his life researching peanuts, but he didn't invent peanut butter, either. The special pleading that crops up in these kinds of arguments is painfully obvious; maybe more painful than obvious.

    He invented the peanut you racist….

    • Agree: SPMoore8
  240. @Reg Cæsar
    Wow. Iowa had six districts as recently as 1992, but now has only four. This is what lopsided immigration does-- tens of millions move to America, but not to Iowa.

    Another example of why the US congress needs to expand the size of the House
    One representative for 750,000 people is absurd. The founders wanted 1 rep for every 50,000.
    Britain has 650 members of Parliament , 1 for every 100,000 citizens.

    We should triple the members of congress so we have 1 rep for every 250,000 people and then add representative when populations grow every 10 years. There would be less need for ridiculous gerrymandering, and it would reduce the power of our congressmen , hard to bribe 700 members of the house than 250.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    That would make Congress a year round version of a major party nominating convention. No thanks.
    , @ScarletNumber
    Yes people think 435 is in the Constitution, but in reality it is just the number they were at when they decided to limit the number.
  241. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    I always think to myself that things, the artifacts, inventions, discoveries, if you will, etc etc that REALLY make a difference to our lives, lest that the vast bulk of the population who would not be privileged to be 'lords' in the alternate society that would, inevitably, establish itself by necessity , and live lives little much removed from that of a beast-of-burden, are due, wholly and exclusively, to the white man - and the white man alone.

    First of all one thinks of the steam engine. Sans steam engine, a world sans tap water and sewerage, to quote but one example.
    Then we have electricity and the exploitation thereof.
    Then you have the internal combustion engine and automobiles of all types.
    Add in powered iron ships.
    Automated looms, sewing machines.
    Refrigerators,
    And lastly and leastly toys such as your TV and tablet.

    Of course a myriad more examples are to be easily conjured up.

    Even toilet paper, that unmentionable but indispensable adjunct to life is only possible with steam engined or some such to 'grind up the trees'.

    Yep.

    Without whitey, not only you wouldn’t be able to eat – no artificial fertilizers or pesticides – you wouldn’t be able to ‘magically’ flush away your excrement, as if it ‘vanishes’, and (excuse the vulgarity), wipe your ass.
    One wonders that in some of today’s horrid ant-hill like mass population conurbations, whitey can be blamed for their teeming billions too that excepting the mass, bulk manufacture of paper from ground down trees, would there ever be another ‘abundant fibrous matter’ about to serve as what the Brits called ‘bum-fodder’?

    Curious and overlooked.

  242. @PiltdownMan

    Europe made extensively use of water and wind powered machines before the invention of the steam engine. It’s partly because of this that steam engines become so popular. They could switch to a more reliable source to power their complex machines.
     
    The other big reason is that a steam engine can be set up anywhere, unlike a water mill, which has to be beside a stream or river, or a windmill, which has to be built where there is a reliable breeze.

    In China and India everything was done by hand so there really was no use for a steam engine if the first place.
     
    China and India did make use of oxen to power water pumps, threshers and oil mills, as did Europe, which used horses as well for the purpose. Windmills and water mills for grinding grain were unknown in Asia, though.

    China and India did make use of oxen to power water pumps, threshers and oil mills

    From what I understand at a certain point in time labor became so cheap that most wind- water- and animal powered machines fell into disuse. This lead to a stagnation and regression in technological development.

  243. @SPMoore8
    Once again, the issue was not "who invented in everything" in the history of humanity.

    The response by King was brought on by the "optimism" at seeing whites disappear, specifically, in political leadership. It is only natural and fair, after someone else had racialized the argument, to respond along racial lines.

    In that respect, it is not even worth discussing the accomplishments of the "white race" (again, it was the other person who racialized this) over the past 600 years, or even 2,500 years. Because it is simply obvious.

    In fact, just restricting ourselves to the last 250 years, without the advances in agricultural and disease control, again, mostly by white guys, 80% of the people in "non-white" countries wouldn't even exist. How do I know this to be true? Because there has been a fourfold/fivefold increase in those parts of the world directly related to 20th Century efforts led by white people to eradicate disease and improve crop yields.

    Yes, exactly. The rules of the rhetorical game are completely loaded and asymmetrical. People who hate whitey are free to spew hateful remarks but if you attempt to respond in kind you are a racis’ and get shouted down. And then the hate whitey guys declare themselves the winner of the “conversation” and call you a racist for having the temerity to even try to contradict them or confuse them with facts.

    Here’s a test. Let’s take Pierce’s words and reverse them, and tell me if he would ever be allowed near a public microphone again:

    “If you’re really optimistic, you can say this was the last time that _______ people would command the Democrat Party’s attention, its platform, its public face,..”

    If you substituted ANY group other than old white – Jewish, black, Latino, etc., this would be seen as pure unmitigated race hate, something befitting a Nazi, etc. But Pierce was completely comfortable spewing this race hate (against his own people no less) and what was seen as shocking was not that he said it but that someone tried to call him on it.

    • Agree: SPMoore8
    • Replies: @JackOH
    Agree 100%, and ditto, SPMoore8.
    , @res

    Here’s a test. Let’s take Pierce’s words and reverse them, and tell me if he would ever be allowed near a public microphone again:

    “If you’re really optimistic, you can say this was the last time that _______ people would command the Democrat Party’s attention, its platform, its public face,..”
     

    Exactly. Why is it that no one is able to make this point effectively in the public sphere?! (I know, I know, but the point is so obviously compelling and on point how do the goodthinkers's heads not explode from the hypocrisy?)
  244. @Former Darfur
    The most in demand microphones are still the Neumann/Telefunken U-47, U-87, and similar variants thereof, and the 1930s and 1940s RCA ribbon mics such as the 44 and 77.

    All designed by white guys.

    http://gizmodo.com/382389/the-neumann-microphone-approved-by-the-beatles-and-hitler
    http://www.coutant.org/ribbons.html

    In some sense the most important microphone ever invented was Alexander Graham Bell’s original dynamic mike, though it didn’t work very well– but one could also make a case for Thomas Edison’s carbon mike, which made the telephone and electronic sound recording practical and even formed the basis of the carbon amplifier. Both of those were invented by white men. All subsequent microphones, whether ribbon, dynamic, piezo, electret, or whatever, were birthed into and nurtured by a world of electronics proceeding from the first two. Of course, most of them were also invented by white men, like most of everything in science and technology.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Apparently, the "blacks invented the microphone" claim relate to James West and the electret foil microphone.

    http://brainprick.com/james-west-the-inventor-of-foil-electret-microphone/

    Judging from his photo, I would think that the white race should get at least 50% credit on that one. West co-invented the electret with Sessler, a German, so now we are down to 25% credit. Sessler got first position on the paper, so maybe even less.

    Electrets are very common in cell phones, etc. because they are small and inexpensive but frankly if they had never been invented the world would be the same - cell phones, etc. would just use another type of condenser mic. Electrets are valuable in that (unlike other condensers) they don't require a bias voltage (just as permanent magnet carries a permanent magnetic charge and don't need power to retain their magnetism, electrets carry a permanent static charge), but inside a cell phone there is (relatively) plenty of power available and it would be no problem to provide the small amount of power needed to bias a non-electret condenser.
  245. @PiltdownMan
    More seriously, the Steve King clip reveals the utter inability of most panelists in these TV discussions in our country to think on their feet or reply with a zinger, however flimsy.

    I've been watching quite a bit of the British Parliament's question hour lately thanks to Brexit events, and I must say that the art of debate, wit and repartee has withered significantly in a generation on this side of the Atlantic.

    We were never a match for the Brits in my living memory, and in any case it was never fully our style, but we used to be better, a lot better.

    In terms of verbal skills, most intellectuals and public figures these days are dull plodders, with neither wit nor whimsy at their command. I blame management speak and focus group processed political press release language for this, at least in the political arena.

    And in these talk shows, a babble of semi-coherent outraged noises are the usual answer to something like Steve King's statement. That figures. Outrage is what is taught in our fine, fine liberal arts universities these days, not the arts of rhetoric.

    Most media formats in the U.S. work against having debates or even intelligent discussions. Think of it as a game of chess where we throw pieces at one another whilst shouting.

    IOW it’s geared towards entertainment and only that. Legit debate and discussions don’t fit that format. Especially when you only have 42 minutes in a hour to talk about something or 18 minutes in a half-hour show.

    Really could you see FoxNews having real debates? I don’t. CNN and MSNBC, well forget about out it as well.

    In terms of debate skills, thanks to the inclusion of low wattage and hyper emotional blacks into debate societies it’s really gone down hill. You just have screaming matches that pass for debates.

    It’s just best at this time to withdraw from the public field.

  246. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus
    "But if you say anything that is the teeny tiniest bit negative about non-whites or express that Western culture is has made greater contributions, then Nelly bar the door – you’re a racis’"

    Did those European and American inventors proclaim "whites rule" upon their discoveries, fist bumping their associates, or did they simply state that their innovations were to benefit human kind, and that their technology was first and foremost invented by [insert their ethnic group here]?

    What's the point to say that white people are squarely responsible for progress and modernity, when those on the Alt-Right and neoreactionaries say those same inventions, technological and ideological, are responsible for our current global mess? Did not "white" people "invent" such things as communism, imperialism, computer hacking, and drones?

    Communism – devised by Karl Marx. Whatever your opinion of Marxism, it was a serious intellectual, philosophical attempt to address the appalling levels of suffering and inequality which existed – and still does exist – in Marx’s day.

    Imperialism – what?, seriously, you’ve never heard of Genghis Khan, the Ottomans, the original Arab islamists, the Mughals, the Bantus etc etc etc?

    Drones – damned useful. Amazon is planning to use them to drop your parcels in the back yard – now, *that’s* a game changer.

    Computer hackers – whether they act for ‘good’ or ‘evil’, you’ve got to admire their wit.

  247. @Yep
    You bring up a good point about him not being articulate. There appear to be no pols with alt right leanings that are good speakers except for Trump.That's a problem. If I said what King said to some of my conservative relatives and friends they would think it's racist too. The reason is we just don't have good speakers who can get these ideas across, or in this case just get facts across.

    The reason is we just don’t have good speakers who can get these ideas across

    It is obvious to me that it is difficult for a racist to thread the needle. It is the same with Jew-haters, sooner or later it will come through if you speak or write enough.

  248. We white men may be a race of super-villains – but at least we’re SUPER!

  249. @Jack D
    Yes, exactly. The rules of the rhetorical game are completely loaded and asymmetrical. People who hate whitey are free to spew hateful remarks but if you attempt to respond in kind you are a racis' and get shouted down. And then the hate whitey guys declare themselves the winner of the "conversation" and call you a racist for having the temerity to even try to contradict them or confuse them with facts.

    Here's a test. Let's take Pierce's words and reverse them, and tell me if he would ever be allowed near a public microphone again:

    “If you’re really optimistic, you can say this was the last time that _______ people would command the Democrat Party’s attention, its platform, its public face,.."

    If you substituted ANY group other than old white - Jewish, black, Latino, etc., this would be seen as pure unmitigated race hate, something befitting a Nazi, etc. But Pierce was completely comfortable spewing this race hate (against his own people no less) and what was seen as shocking was not that he said it but that someone tried to call him on it.

    Agree 100%, and ditto, SPMoore8.

  250. @Jack D

    America was built on the slave labor of black Americans.
     
    It's funny then that most of the slaves were down South doing agricultural work while most of the built-up infrastructure was up North. Anyway, no one (certainly not the NFL) disputes that blacks have strong backs, but I thought we were talking about intellectual achievements. In the North, it was the Irish who were doing most of the backbreaking labor digging canals and laying rails and such, but this doesn't entitle them to intellectual credit either.

    Jack,

    Add to this is that less than 10 percent of the slaves came to what is now the USA. The largest slave nation was Brazil. If America became rich due to slavery, what’s up with Brazil? Brazil should be the wealthiest place on earth. And Canada, what about Canada? How in the heck could they be so wealthy without making use of of African slaves?

    • Replies: @Clyde

    And Canada, what about Canada? How in the heck could they be so wealthy without making use of of African slaves?
     
    Historically Nova Scotia had the most blacks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Nova_Scotians .... With modern immigration Toronto probably has more with all the Caribbeans/Jamaicans/Somalians there. It would be a kick to see what temps they maintain their houses/apartments. How much of AlGore's CO2 are they sending upward? My experience with third worlders in the North is they crank the heat up up up and away in the winter to at least 80-85 degrees.
  251. Ivy says:
    @reiner Tor
    I usually find it difficult to talk to a voicemail or answering machine, I need to prepare what I'll say in advance, otherwise it sounds pretty incoherent.

    Some voicemail systems allow you to listen to the message and then append or delete and re-record, but if you hit the wrong button (i.e., was it the star key, or something else to delete, or does that send instead?) your message is preserved for posterity. I used the delete and re-record features quite a lot as that helped make an initial thought into a more polished message.

  252. @Anon 2
    1. True, S. I. Hayakawa was at San Francisco State.
    A typo. 2. For a magnificent account of Korzybski's
    life, read a recent 700-page biography by Bruce Kodish
    who happens to be Jewish and is one of many passionate
    (indirect) disciples of the man, which says something
    considering that Korzybski died in 1950. There are those
    things called books. Read them, enlighten yourself

    3. Actually, Einstein's contributions are being reevaluated.
    There is no question he was a great physicist but he is
    increasingly seen as the last of great classical physicists
    due to his opposition to quantum mechanics. Many people
    are angry that string theories didn't work out, thousands
    of physicists wasted their lives pursuing a chimera, and
    a growing number of people feel that Einstein pushed
    physics in the wrong direction ( by emphasizing theoretical
    postulates at the expense of empirical data. Lorentz famously
    said, "Einstein assumed what we had proved), and hence deserves
    part of the blame for the current sorry state of fundamental physics.

    There are also sociological factors. As the Old Guard in fundamental
    physics, heavily Jewish in composition, retires, it is increasingly
    being replaced by Asians (annually about 60,000 immigrate to the U.S.
    from India and India each) who have little reason to defend Einstein
    against his detractors. For a recent example, see How Einstein Ruined
    Physics by Schlafly.

    Regarding Einstein’s level of fame in the U.S.
    in the 1930, let’s not forget that 1. Einstein only
    immigrated to the U.S. in 1933, and wasn’t that
    well known to the general public; 2. Physics was
    not well developed in America in those days, and
    the number of Jewish physics professors was very
    small; 3. Antisemitism was still very strong in the
    1930s and ’40s in the U.S. – many Jews, for example,
    were suspected of being Communist sympathetizers.

    Count Korzybski, blond and blue-eyed, born in Warsaw
    and descended from an old Polish szlachta (warrior caste) family,
    lived in the U.S. since World War I, and was a very
    colorful character. Trained as an engineer, he was a war
    hero, spoke 7 languages, was accomplished in horsemanship
    and sword fights (which endeared him to the future
    Gen. Patton), fought in a number of duels, was
    a charismatic public speaker, married Mira Edgerly,
    a famous painter who was making an equivalent
    of $100-150,000 a year, and of course instantly became
    a countess, but more than anything else he had
    a talent for friendship, and knew practically everybody.
    Being a count and a war hero opened a lot of doors in
    those days.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "1. Einstein only
    immigrated to the U.S. in 1933, and wasn’t that
    well known to the general public;"

    No, Einstein was an enormous celebrity in America as elsewhere at the time.

    He first became a celebrity in 1919 with Eddington's (sp?) test of his General Relativity theory. The 1920s were a golden age of celebrities, and Einstein was the Babe Ruth / Charlie Chaplin / Jack Dempsey of scientists.

  253. @PiltdownMan

    Which Hindoos invented zero and the whole set of “Arabic” numerals – or was zero perhaps invented by Sumerians or Babylonians? All forgotten now.
     
    Not just forgotten, but never celebrated or recorded at the time.

    Modern Western civilization is unique in carefully recording authorship and attributing credit to individuals in cultural and technological endeavor. This has not been the rule in most other civilizations.

    Even with something as recent as the Taj Mahal, which was built in the same decade that Harvard College was founded, the names of the architects, contractors and master craftsmen are hard to figure out. And this was the Mughals, who came from a Turkic-Persian culture in which written history and records were important. With the Hindus, self-effacing toil was the norm. No one knows the names of the creators of the great bronzes and sculptures of ancient India, and most of the philosophical texts are nameless. Even with more recent achievements, few names are remembered. That adds another layer of methodological problems to that database.

    Notwithstanding all that, Steve King is right in that the huge explosion of scientific and technical achievement of the last six centuries comes from the white male West.

    These achievements that eclipse all that came before for the most simple and visceral of reasons. In especially the last 150 years or so, they have made human life easy, comfortable and safe beyond any of the wildest fantasies of earlier times.

    That our insights stand on the shoulders of earlier insights, where-ever those came from, is a banal observation. That the insights, especially scientific and technological, of our modern era are unique, extraordinary and intellectually massive is to assert what is usefully true.

    There is another, simple demographic fact that skews the numbers wildly in favor of the West of the last 500 years. Not only did the insights happen here, they happened at a time of exponential population growth.

    By modern standards, there were simply not a great number of titanic minds in antiquity, when the world's population could have been as little as 50 million— Greeks, Chinese, Indians, Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Arabs, Romans and what have you all combined.

    But the world started with a base of 500 million people or so after the Middle Ages and has been above a billion almost since the late-Enlightenment period. There were vastly more great right-tail minds at work in Western Europe in recent centuries than there ever were in antiquity, simply by reason of the population number being greater by a big multiple.

    That makes a huge difference, and may be a reason why our achievements have vastly outnumbered and swamped those of any other earlier group. Exacerbating the effect is also the simple fact that non-Western civilizations simultaneously went into intellectual hibernation for the last five centuries. Speculation as to why that happened is likely fruitless, and also pointless.

    The West has been batting .400 for five centuries now and playing way more games than in earlier seasons, and the other players have basically been at zip in the same five century period.

    So you are implying that the non-West has been batting below the Mendoza Line?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendoza_Line

  254. The whole subject has a “What Have The Romans Ever Done For Us?” quality to it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9foi342LXQE

  255. In the last say 50,000 years human beings have domesticated scores of different species. The Negro races and their ancestors have resided in sub-Saharan Africa for some 200,000 years and have domesticated none. All the domesticated animals ever used by sub-Saharan Negroes — dogs goats, cattle, chickens, etc. — were domesticated elsewhere by other human races and later found their way to Africa.

    Jarred Diamond has made the silly argument that this is because there were no species in sub-Saharan Africa suitable for domestication. This is absurd on the face of it. Semites north of the Sahara were able to domesticate the same African elephant that Negroes didn’t. The aurochs and other precursors of domesticated cattle were far more fierce, intimidating, and apparently immune to domestication than similar potential cattle pre-cursors in sub-Saharan Africa, yet Europeans, Indians, and Southeast Asians all domesticated cattle species while Negroes did not. Zebras were an equine species that Negroes could, over thousands of years, have domesticated into something like horses. But they never did. Horses were domesticated in central Eurasia and adopted everywhere except sub-Saharan Africa and pre-Columbian America. (IIRC Diamond makes some circular argument that Zebras could not be domesticated because Negroes didn’t domesticate them. There he was thinking like an idiot.)

    So in 200,000 years no Negro domestication of animals. In 50,000 years and everywhere but sub-Saharan Africa, domestication of scores of species. Some of the latest were in S. America which saw the domestication of camelid animals, e.g., llamas, and rodents, e.g., guinea pigs. One of the last recorded domestications was of rabbits in medieval Europe. But no domestication ever in sub-Saharan Africa!

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Some white guy in South Africa in the 19th Century domesticated ostriches. I see ostriches on farms in California all the time.
    , @Discard
    There is video online showing women riding zebras. My guess is that zebras are too small for 180 lb men to ride, but the women are light enough. The first domesticated horses were small as well, so were used to pull carts or chariots rather than riding. But of course, the African dindu the wheel either.
    , @matt
    The Punics used a now extinct North African subspecies of the African bush elephant, which was smaller and probably more tame than its sub-Saharan cousin.

    Here's Wiki:


    Carthaginian frescoes[3] and coins minted by whoever controlled North Africa at various times show very small elephants, perhaps 2.5 metres (8 ft 2 in) at the shoulder, with the large ears and concave back typical of modern African elephants. The North African elephant was smaller than the modern African bush elephant (L. a. africana), probably similar in size to the modern African forest elephant (L. cyclotis). It is also possible that it was more docile and plainer than the African bush elephant, which is generally untamable, allowing the Punics to tame it as a war elephant by a method now lost to history.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_African_elephant
    , @matt

    Zebras were an equine species that Negroes could, over thousands of years, have domesticated into something like horses. But they never did.... (IIRC Diamond makes some circular argument that Zebras could not be domesticated because Negroes didn’t domesticate them. There he was thinking like an idiot.)
     
    Europeans have tried many times to domesticate zebras, with at best very partial success.

    http://www.thomsonsafaris.com/blog/taming-zebras-domestication-attempts/

    In general, African fauna have been coevolving next to humans for hundreds of thousands of years, so they have developed some pretty powerful defenses against us (all of us).
    , @Harold
    I don’t think it changes your point much, but Hannibal’s elephants were a now extinct subspecies.
  256. Dear, dear Stevie King. Oh noes. You have disturbed The Narrative. Let me help:

    White people stole the land from the Indians. White people owned slaves. White people are bad. Full stop. Go no further. Beyond here lies divisiveness. Do not have a conversation. Have a conversation about having a conversation, but beyond that lies Hatred. We must have Unity, Steve.

    Go, and sin no more.

  257. @szopen
    I am not sure what are "notable" definitions. I searched for several known Polish scientists, mathematicians, philosophers, and not a single appeared in the data: Łukasiewicz, Kotarbiński, Tarski, Witelo, Mandelbrot (well, this one was Jewish born in Warsaw), steinhaus, ulam, ajdukiewicz, czochralski, czekanowski, koneczny, hirszfeld, malinowski, sierpiński. I mean it seems that their contributions were at least comparable if not greater, than some of the people included in Murray's list (like, for example, Ansel Adams - or why Lumiere brothers but no Prószyński?)

    The first one which appeared was Banach

    Tarski? Tarski? Maybe I’m biased because logic is sort of my field, but Tarski? That is surprising.

    You would think if you got Banach you’d get Tarski as well 😉

    • Replies: @Peter Lund
    Or two of them.
  258. @NickG
    The late Christopher Hitchens made a point of never missing an opportunity to appear on the telly; but then he lived in Washington DC. The advantage of this was that if a talking-head was needed in a hurry, he could be relied upon. Which generates its own self reinforcing currency, it put his name in folk's minds and he became an entry in the well-thumbed section of TV scheduler's Rolodex.

    Germane quote from Hitch-22.

    Yeah, Hitchens was a good talker. He went on some crazy crusades against Kissinger and Mother Teresa for some reason, but I found him entertaining even when I knew he was blowing smoke. There are some Youtube clips where he tells hostile audiences to FOAD. Died too young. RIP.

  259. @Discard
    A good teacher learns to handle questions off the cuff. Doing six successful shows a day for lively audiences ready to take advantage of your hesitation or errors is good training for any public speaker.

    Toastmasters helps.

  260. @Numinous

    If it wasn’t for white people we wouldn’t be able to communicate now.
     
    Now that you mention communication, there's an Indian dude who has a decent claim to discovering radio comm. around the same time as Marconi, but never bothered to patent it.

    Bose was definitely a great mind. But he did not work in a vacuum. His research was greatly influenced by contemporary Europeans who were working in the same field. In effect he was part of the Western zeitgeist of invention and discovery.

    This is similar to modern times. We have great contributions coming from NE Asians and Indians. But for the most part they are working in a Westernized world using the foundations of modern science laid down by Western Civ.

    • Replies: @Numinous

    But he did not work in a vacuum.
     
    No scientist does. But so what? The question was whether non-whites have contributed to civilization. (Please note that science is only one dimension of contribution.) Whoever (OK, Westerners) created and launched the systems whereby scientific innovation could start and flourish, that system has been long adopted and emulated by everyone in the world. There is no one who does not believe in science. Does that mean every contribution made by anyone henceforth should be attributable only to white people because (some, a few) of them launched the system a few centuries ago? Doesn't make sense to me. For example: should any achievement by any American politician be attributable to George Washington, Jefferson, etc, because they started the whole system? Think how ludicrous that sounds, and how demeaning to everyone who achieves anything within such a system.
  261. There was a time when flat-earthers were far more eloquent, wealthy, powerful, and numerous than round-earthers. Yay for flat-earthers, boo for round-earthers!

    Isn’t that convenient – you turn a whole field of study into a mine field and then you complain that there is no one good out there plowing the field. You first. It’s like the textbook definition of chutzpah – someone who kills his parents and then pleads for mercy because he is an orphan.

    Haha, well said.

    Because they are now better than you? Maybe?

    Who cares? Chinese stayed closed when they were unquestionably inferior. Japanese, too. Israeli population is dwarfed by Chinese with IQs over 120, which is far above the Israeli mean, but you don’t see Israelis inviting them in.

    I don’t care if they’re inferior or superior on your metrics, they’re alien. Nobody is better at having Jewish babies than Jews, nobody is better at having White babies than Whites, nobody is better at having Yellow babies than Yellows, etc. That’s the important metric, and every group reigns supreme at that.

  262. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    For a younger audience, Milo Yiannopoulos would be another name. And he's based in LA.

    Milo is a riot, and very quick on his feet. Check out his podcast with Ann Coulter over at Breitbart where they debate who is the queen of conservatism.

    Here is his recentreview of Ghostbusters: http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/07/18/milo-reviews-ghostbusters/

  263. res says:
    @Jack D
    Yes, exactly. The rules of the rhetorical game are completely loaded and asymmetrical. People who hate whitey are free to spew hateful remarks but if you attempt to respond in kind you are a racis' and get shouted down. And then the hate whitey guys declare themselves the winner of the "conversation" and call you a racist for having the temerity to even try to contradict them or confuse them with facts.

    Here's a test. Let's take Pierce's words and reverse them, and tell me if he would ever be allowed near a public microphone again:

    “If you’re really optimistic, you can say this was the last time that _______ people would command the Democrat Party’s attention, its platform, its public face,.."

    If you substituted ANY group other than old white - Jewish, black, Latino, etc., this would be seen as pure unmitigated race hate, something befitting a Nazi, etc. But Pierce was completely comfortable spewing this race hate (against his own people no less) and what was seen as shocking was not that he said it but that someone tried to call him on it.

    Here’s a test. Let’s take Pierce’s words and reverse them, and tell me if he would ever be allowed near a public microphone again:

    “If you’re really optimistic, you can say this was the last time that _______ people would command the Democrat Party’s attention, its platform, its public face,..”

    Exactly. Why is it that no one is able to make this point effectively in the public sphere?! (I know, I know, but the point is so obviously compelling and on point how do the goodthinkers’s heads not explode from the hypocrisy?)

  264. @iSteveFan
    Jack,

    Add to this is that less than 10 percent of the slaves came to what is now the USA. The largest slave nation was Brazil. If America became rich due to slavery, what's up with Brazil? Brazil should be the wealthiest place on earth. And Canada, what about Canada? How in the heck could they be so wealthy without making use of of African slaves?

    And Canada, what about Canada? How in the heck could they be so wealthy without making use of of African slaves?

    Historically Nova Scotia had the most blacks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Nova_Scotians …. With modern immigration Toronto probably has more with all the Caribbeans/Jamaicans/Somalians there. It would be a kick to see what temps they maintain their houses/apartments. How much of AlGore’s CO2 are they sending upward? My experience with third worlders in the North is they crank the heat up up up and away in the winter to at least 80-85 degrees.

    • Replies: @mobi
    Toronto has the highest number of blacks, and near the top by percentage.

    Interestingly, it bumped Quebec City from the bottom of the list of Canadian cities by murder rate a little while ago. It's arguably the safest Canadian city.

    I believe the best predictor of murder rates in Canadian cities is size of aboriginal population.
  265. @The Last Real Calvinist

    Anyone with those skills and the right political views will rarely be allowed on the MSM in the first place, people like must exist but they never get the chance to hone their skills, to be really at ease on camera. Whereas leftist talking heads may be on TV/radio constantly, speaking truth to power on a regular basis. They will be used to the format, the presentation etc.

     

    Yes, you may be on to something. Steyn has done lots of talk radio and TV, for example.

    Hugh Hewitt (also from talk radio, but now moving more and more into TV) is also good at scoring points against leftists in the heat of the moment, but it's taken him years to establish an MSM beachhead, and then fortify and cultivate that MSM presence. I listen to his radio show, where he again and again invites on MSM talking heads, and speaks soothingly to them so they don't get alarmed at even the mildest conservative critiques. I sense him pulling his rhetorical punches pretty frequently in order to retain his MSM access pass.

    One other note: I fully agree it's not easy being off-the-cuff clever in front of a camera. I've done a bit of TV work -- not even live -- and it took me lots of reps to feel something less than horribly self-conscious when being filmed.

    Hewitt is retains lawyerly courtroom decorum. He can also be good at using his soothing tones to lure the unsuspecting into rhetorical ambushes, though he’s usually polite about it.

  266. @Ganderson
    Charles Pierce is the guy who wrote the piece in the Boston Globe magazine that said (and I don't believe it was irony, and I quote from memory) " If Mary Jo Kopechne were alive today she's appreciate all the programs that Ted Kennedy had brought into existence."

    One of the most despicable things I have ever heard.

  267. Steve King , though totally correct, took the wrong path. He should have made the point that Anglo-Saxon men are the only ones capable of running this unique country founded by Anglo-Saxon men. As an ethnic, I can say that WASPs make the best politicians. The worst politicians on Earth are in Africa so it’s no surprise that an African in America made for a horrible president. Hispanics aren’t much better. Now of course, there have been bad WASP politicians like George W. Bush, but overall, when America was still America, almost all of our best presidents were 100% British in ethnicity. And they were ALL men. Even as America becomes more diverse(sadly), I believe that America will only stay a first world country if a white man, preferably British in ancestry, is in charge. I believe the brave Steve King would agree with me. It would have been even more controversial, but we need to start telling the absolute truth if this country and it’s civilization is to survive.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    If you want to have zero chance of recovering America and our way of life, then go ahead and alienate the majority of white Americans -- who are NOT descended from English, Irish, Scottish, or Welsh people.
  268. @Gunnar von Cowtown
    You should check out some alt-right podcasts.

    -Richard Spencer
    -Greg Johnson
    -Vox Day
    -Milo
    ...are all extremely articulate.

    If you wanna dip your toe into The Right Stuff Radio pool,
    -Jazzhands McFeels
    -Halberstram
    -Seventh Son
    -Reactionary Tree
    .... are also very articulate despite their zany pseudonyms.

    Don’t forget Radio Derb (http://www.vdare.com/radios)

  269. Hmm. The only problem with King’s perfectly justified outburst is its imprecision: 1. it is possible to claim ancient Near Easterners and Egyptians as “proto-white” or “proto-Western” but the self-hating Whiteness Studies SJW morons will keep that running around in circles as though the few ambiguous cases in modern times changed anything, and 2. even within this “broad” paradigm it’s not entirely true that whites have made the ONLY useful and ingenious strides for civilization, even within the past 600 years.

    He’s still far closer to the truth than the melanin-complexed dumb-butts who imagine the glory of the U.S. to depend entirely on black bodies, but we all know the intelligentsia will rip open and magnify any flaws in such a discourse. It’s always easier to think up retorts in hindsight rather than on-the-fly, but he’d have had a more impenetrable discourse had he said something along the lines of, “Tell me: what do you think Westerm civilization would be like today without white men? What do you think America will be like when it is no longer dominated by whites?”

  270. @Unzerker
    We didn't only invent everything in the last 500 years. We invented pretty much everything in the last 800 years.

    I don't know where these 600 or 500 years comes from. Were there some important inventions elsewhere in the world when Europeans came up with glasses and mechanical clocks in the 12th century?

    Yes. I don’t think Europe looked especially advanced in 1300 AD. Probably not more than China, India, Persia, or the Ottoman Empire.

    • Replies: @Unzerker
    Even though I don't agree, that's not the point. Everything new and exiting in the world was coming from Europe by that time.

    Of course China still had some old stuff that was new and exiting for Europeans. Gunpowder was still very new for Europeans by 1300. But Europe's technological excellence at bell founding for their church towers meant they were instantly the best canon makers on the planet.

    And people here talk about China being the first to discover the compass. It might be true that the Chinese were the first to discover that a magnetized pin in water would always point to the magnetic north. But it were Europeans who invented the first dry compass. Do you want to know when?

    Around 1300 AD.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_compass#Dry_compass
    , @Greenstalk

    I don’t think Europe looked especially advanced in 1300 AD. Probably not more than China, India, Persia, or the Ottoman Empire.
     
    So you're admitting that Europe in its so-called "Dark Ages" was at least as advanced as the other parts of the world which are widely considered to have been "advanced' at this time? Or are you saying that China, India, the Ottomans etc were primitive and backward?
    , @Unzerker
    Even though I don’t agree, that’s not the point. Everything new and exiting in the world was coming from Europe by that time.

    Of course China still had some old stuff that was new and exiting for Europeans. Gunpowder was still very new for Europeans by 1300. But Europe’s technological excellence at bell founding for their church towers meant they were instantly the best canon makers on the planet.

    And people here talk about China being the first to discover the compass. It might be true that the Chinese were the first to discover that a magnetized pin in water would always point to the magnetic north. But it were Europeans who invented the first dry compass. Do you want to know when?

    Around 1300 AD.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_compass#Dry_compass
    , @anonymous european
    " I don’t think Europe looked especially advanced in 1300 AD"

    In 1300, Europe already had the tallest buildings in the world (cathedrals), precise nautical charts (carta pisana), mechanical clocks (referenced twice in the divine comedy, unambiguously), superior metallurgy (the blast furnace), and sight-correcting eyeglasses.

    You can easily verify all these statements.

    Europe was already the most advanced part of the world in 1300.

  271. @Veracitor
    In some sense the most important microphone ever invented was Alexander Graham Bell's original dynamic mike, though it didn't work very well-- but one could also make a case for Thomas Edison's carbon mike, which made the telephone and electronic sound recording practical and even formed the basis of the carbon amplifier. Both of those were invented by white men. All subsequent microphones, whether ribbon, dynamic, piezo, electret, or whatever, were birthed into and nurtured by a world of electronics proceeding from the first two. Of course, most of them were also invented by white men, like most of everything in science and technology.

    Apparently, the “blacks invented the microphone” claim relate to James West and the electret foil microphone.

    http://brainprick.com/james-west-the-inventor-of-foil-electret-microphone/

    Judging from his photo, I would think that the white race should get at least 50% credit on that one. West co-invented the electret with Sessler, a German, so now we are down to 25% credit. Sessler got first position on the paper, so maybe even less.

    Electrets are very common in cell phones, etc. because they are small and inexpensive but frankly if they had never been invented the world would be the same – cell phones, etc. would just use another type of condenser mic. Electrets are valuable in that (unlike other condensers) they don’t require a bias voltage (just as permanent magnet carries a permanent magnetic charge and don’t need power to retain their magnetism, electrets carry a permanent static charge), but inside a cell phone there is (relatively) plenty of power available and it would be no problem to provide the small amount of power needed to bias a non-electret condenser.

    • Replies: @iSteveFan
    Jack, one would still need to acknowledge that this man, black or white, was a product of Western Civ. He was born here, educated in a Western-style educational system, studied electrical engineering which has been heavily influenced by Western scientists, worked with other Western scientists and advanced the the microphone which itself was a creation of Western Civ.

    Is there even a competing or alternative civilization which is churning out inventions? In ancient times you could have a Chinese civilization and a Roman civilization completely unaware of one another and working on issues in their own way. But do we even have this anymore? Or has Western-style education, research and methodology become so universal that effectively everyone in technology is de facto part of Western Civ? This might be similar to how people throughout the Mediterranean used to be part of Hellenic Civilization even if they weren't Greek.
    , @Former Darfur
    Non-electret condenser mics require a bias voltage, which doesn't have to have much current, but does require a certain voltage, which would have been awkward to generate in small portable electronics until fairly recently. 48 volts is the common phantom voltage for these.

    Old time telephones had carbon button mics, which were "low fidelity"-but yet an old WE/GTE garage sale phone made from 1930 to 1984 still sounds better than almost all modern wireline phones. Go figure.

    The canonical and most common "quality" microphone in general use is the Shure SM57, which is a dynamic type. A good engineer with nothing but a handful of 57's and 58s and maybe one FET large capsule condenser mic for lead vocals can beat a mediocre one with, literally, a million dollar mic locker (and these days a million dollar mic locker might fit in a small linen closet) every time.
  272. @reiner Tor
    You could be right. A few points.

    1) Present-day Middle Easterners are only partially derived from ancient Middle Easterners. They have something like 5-10% recent (last 2ky) Sub-Saharan ancestry, another maybe 20 or 30% Peninsula Arab ancestry, some Central Asian or Mongol ancestry etc. In other words, those inventions were made by a population that does not exist any more, or maybe only fragments of it exist (like Alawites or Middle Eastern Christians etc.)

    2) Innovations need environment, too. Western Europeans had a much worse climate and so needed more time to domesticate plants or breed plants suited for the climate. The Middle Easterners had it all and then blew it, while Europeans went on to create modernity.

    3) You might be correct about the big picture, but we can talk about recent history and the present. Just exactly who else did invent modernity? Even in the present, other than the Japanese and Chinese and a few related ethnicities nobody else is capable of operating functioning first world societies, or innovating in hi tech. That's still a robust result.

    4) As to Murray's book, of course it has its limitations, but some of your complaints were addressed in the book itself, IIRC.

    In other words, those inventions were made by a population that does not exist any more,

    This eventually could be the case with “Americans” in about 100 years. I can imagine in a century some non-Europeans inhabiting what is the USA arguing with some other non-Europeans about how great they are because they put a man on the moon in 1969.

  273. @Jack D
    Apparently, the "blacks invented the microphone" claim relate to James West and the electret foil microphone.

    http://brainprick.com/james-west-the-inventor-of-foil-electret-microphone/

    Judging from his photo, I would think that the white race should get at least 50% credit on that one. West co-invented the electret with Sessler, a German, so now we are down to 25% credit. Sessler got first position on the paper, so maybe even less.

    Electrets are very common in cell phones, etc. because they are small and inexpensive but frankly if they had never been invented the world would be the same - cell phones, etc. would just use another type of condenser mic. Electrets are valuable in that (unlike other condensers) they don't require a bias voltage (just as permanent magnet carries a permanent magnetic charge and don't need power to retain their magnetism, electrets carry a permanent static charge), but inside a cell phone there is (relatively) plenty of power available and it would be no problem to provide the small amount of power needed to bias a non-electret condenser.

    Jack, one would still need to acknowledge that this man, black or white, was a product of Western Civ. He was born here, educated in a Western-style educational system, studied electrical engineering which has been heavily influenced by Western scientists, worked with other Western scientists and advanced the the microphone which itself was a creation of Western Civ.

    Is there even a competing or alternative civilization which is churning out inventions? In ancient times you could have a Chinese civilization and a Roman civilization completely unaware of one another and working on issues in their own way. But do we even have this anymore? Or has Western-style education, research and methodology become so universal that effectively everyone in technology is de facto part of Western Civ? This might be similar to how people throughout the Mediterranean used to be part of Hellenic Civilization even if they weren’t Greek.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    I agree, but the flip side of this is that whites no long "own" Western Civ. Anyone who contributes to it is part of it.
    , @PiltdownMan

    Or has Western-style education, research and methodology become so universal that effectively everyone in technology is de facto part of Western Civ?
     
    But only in technology.

    And yet...I'm constantly amazed by highly educated non-Westerners or immigrants to this country who are completely unaware of any of the cultural or philosophical notions that go with Western Civ.

    What is even more dismaying is that these overachievers are also shockingly ignorant about their own cultures and civilizations. Steer the conversation to anything that is non-STEM related and they can't discuss their way out of a paper bag.

    In particular, many top Asian STEM types, especially those educated in the narrower curricula in their home countries, are truly ill-read and uninformed in their world views.
  274. IBC says:

    If those panelists had had any presence of mind, they would have at least mentioned Egypt and China. Of course, for the time being, the Census Bureau considers Egyptians to be “white” and a lot of Americans don’t really seem to like China. But it’s still true: PC makes you stupid.

    No shout out to Latinos either, though I guess King actually kind of included them.

    And get serious: Hitler is the legacy of Western Civilization? “Because Hitler” has become the ultimate rhetorical “trump” card for identity liberals. It’s how they signal that it’s time for the “conversation” to end. We should all remember that for every positive “Asian” contribution like paper, there was a Genghis Khan to wipe the score clean again. Oh yeah, and the pyramids were built with slave labor…

    • Replies: @Nico

    No shout out to Latinos either, though I guess King actually kind of included them.
     
    As has been pointed out here before, the least bad parts of Latin America are Costa Rica and the Southern Cone. Not coincidentally these are also the whitest parts.
    , @Steve Sailer
    If ethnic activists groups have their way in convincing the Obama Administration to change racial categories for the 2020 Census to break out Middle Eastern-North African as separate from white, then the TV moderator's second choice for worst person -- Stalin -- won't be white anymore.

    Stalin was from Asia.
  275. @Gunnar von Cowtown
    You should check out some alt-right podcasts.

    -Richard Spencer
    -Greg Johnson
    -Vox Day
    -Milo
    ...are all extremely articulate.

    If you wanna dip your toe into The Right Stuff Radio pool,
    -Jazzhands McFeels
    -Halberstram
    -Seventh Son
    -Reactionary Tree
    .... are also very articulate despite their zany pseudonyms.

    Vox is a smart guy but presents as pretty nerdy. Spencer is a pretty good speaker, but more academic. Not familiar with Greg Johnson.

    I’ll give you Milo, though.

  276. @Alec Leamas
    Probably because the object of the exercise is to not reveal information under questioning. It's a misinformation campaign, focused primarily in not disturbing the narratives concocted by the Democrats' partners in the news and entertainment media. Bumbling non-speak accomplishes this.

    Right, the reason that Mark Steyn debates so well is that he has thoughtful, considered positions on the issues and is honest and passionate about them. All of those attributes are undesirable in a paid flack who goes to peddle the company line to the media.

    • Replies: @Ivy
    Mark Steyn also tends to disarm opponents somewhat with his voice and accent. That could be yet another benefit of the Anglo influence in public discourse, Oxbridge, received pronunciation and all, even if by association via Canada.
  277. @Jack D

    This is the strongest prediction from DNA of a behavioural measure to date.
     
    That's not saying much - they were able to account for 10% of academic variation using 71 genes. Accounting for 10% of variation is little more than useless.

    According to the article:

    Their findings show that what makes students achieve differently in their educational achievement is strongly affected by DNA differences; on average those with a higher polygenic score would obtain a grade between A and B, whereas those with a lower score obtained an entire grade below in terms of GCSE scores at age 16. As well as this, 65 per cent of people in the higher polygenic group went on to do A-levels, whereas only 35 per cent from the lower group did so.

    It’s a general mistake to think that a low number for the amount of variation explained translates into uselessness in prediction.

    Prediction of such things is hard even with the very best metrics — effective noise always plays a big role.

    The polygenic score isn’t where it needs to be yet for use in these settings, but it seems reasonable to say it’s reached a tipping point. One wonders if it isn’t already the best possible predictor for very young children, for whom other kinds of tests may be close to useless.

    • Replies: @res

    The polygenic score isn’t where it needs to be yet for use in these settings, but it seems reasonable to say it’s reached a tipping point. One wonders if it isn’t already the best possible predictor for very young children, for whom other kinds of tests may be close to useless.
     
    What about just using parental midpoint IQ adjusted for regression to the mean? I think that sets a pretty high bar (compare to height predictions bettering Galton's height results).

    I still agree with your overall point. I wonder how much variance a whole genome (or SNPS interpolated to infer more) predictor will be able to account for eventually.

    And 10% of variance explained implies (for a single variable) a correlation coefficient of 0.32. It might be useful to reference a list of correlations to calibrate our sense of how important a predictor we have (unfortunately I don't have such a list handy and did not see one in a quick search).
  278. @JSM
    I guess this is the answer to the Fermi Paradox:

    When an intelligent species has evolved sufficiently that one of its subspecies
    starts inventing all the technology necessary to escape the gravity well of its home planet, the less-capable subspecies, in their jealousy, browbeat the inventive subspecies into breeding itself out of existence.

    And the whole muddled mess devolves back into pond slime.

    So, the tragedy is, the Great Filter is before us, not behind us. And that filter is Pathological Altruism.

    I guess this is the answer to the Fermi Paradox:

    When an intelligent species has evolved sufficiently that one of its subspecies
    starts inventing all the technology necessary to escape the gravity well of its home planet, the less-capable subspecies, in their jealousy, browbeat the inventive subspecies into breeding itself out of existence.

    And the whole muddled mess devolves back into pond slime.

    So, the tragedy is, the Great Filter is before us, not behind us. And that filter is Pathological Altruism.

    To paraphrase Robin Hanson: Something out there is checking white privilege, and you’re next.

    (You may have already read it but I loved Nick Land’s demented FP speculation novella Phyl-Undhu.)