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From the NYT:

Building a Face, and a Case, on DNA
By ANDREW POLLACK FEB. 23, 2015

There were no known eyewitnesses to the murder of a young woman and her 3-year-old daughter four years ago. No security cameras caught a figure coming or going.

Nonetheless, the police in Columbia, S.C., last month released a sketch of a possible suspect. Rather than an artist’s rendering based on witness descriptions, the face was generated by a computer relying solely on DNA found at the scene of the crime.

It may be the first time a suspect’s face has been put before the public in this way, but it will not be the last. Investigators are increasingly able to determine the physical characteristics of crime suspects from the DNA they leave behind, providing what could become a powerful new tool for law enforcement.

Already genetic sleuths can determine a suspect’s eye and hair color fairly accurately. It is also possible, or might soon be, to predict skin color, freckling, baldness, hair curliness, tooth shape and age.

Computers may eventually be able to match faces generated from DNA to those in a database of mug shots. Even if it does not immediately find the culprit, the genetic witness, so to speak, can be useful, researchers say.

“That at least narrows down the suspects,” said Susan Walsh, an assistant professor of biology at Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis who recently won a $1.1 million grant from the Department of Justice to develop such tools.

But forensic DNA phenotyping, as it is called, is also raising concerns. Some scientists question the accuracy of the technology, especially its ability to recreate facial images. Others say use of these techniques could exacerbate racial profiling among law enforcement agencies and infringe on privacy.

“This is another of these areas where the technology is ahead of the popular debate and discussion,” said Erin Murphy, a professor of law at New York University.

DNA, of course, has been used for more than two decades to hunt for suspects or to convict or exonerate people. But until now, that meant matching a suspect’s DNA to that found at the crime scene, or trying to find a match in a government database.

DNA phenotyping is different: an attempt to determine physical traits from genetic material left at the scene when no match is found in the conventional way. …

Gender has long been ascertained from crime scene DNA. About 15 years ago, some police departments began trying to determine the geographic ancestry of suspects, as well, by using tests like the ones consumers order to learn about their genetic heritage.

In 2003, such information helped redirect the search for a serial killer in Louisiana. Police had been looking for a white man based on a witness account and on psychological profiles.

But DNA found at the site of one of the murders indicated the person’s ancestry was 85 percent sub-Saharan African. Eventually, a black man was convicted of the crimes.

Now researchers are closing in on specific physical traits, like eye and hair color.

But I’ve been hearing for 15 years that two individuals of different races are more genetically similar than two individuals of the same race. I’ve read that in comments sections hundreds of times. Could we have been misled?

 
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  1. Melendwyr says: • Website

    How in the world could relying on DNA – instead of appearance and witness recollections – exacerbate racist attitudes?

    Unless they mean ‘racist’ in the Sailerian sense of noticing reality.

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    • Replies: @kikz
    exactly.... and don'cha know.. there's a war on noticing......
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  2. countenance says: • Website

    “This is another of these areas where the technology is ahead of the popular debate and discussion,” said Erin Murphy, a professor of law at New York University.

    Actually, it’s more like this is one of the rare instances when real science and technology was able to climb out of the bucket before the egalitarian race denying crabs pulled it back down.

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    • Replies: @CK
    Any area of scientific or artistic or technological advance will always be "ahead of the debate among the scientific ignorati."
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  3. “Others say use of these techniques could exacerbate racial profiling among law enforcement agencies”

    I’m super confused by this.

    How is finding a suspects DNA and determining their race from it exacerbating racial profiling?

    Is that just a code phrase for saying “more blacks will be locked up?”

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    That was presented as a civil rights issue at the Oscars last night.
    , @rustbeltreader
    Your DNA is all over the place. It's in your trash cans. It is good to prove you innocent. Building a case? They spent three months and thousands of dollars. They found the suspect, who happened to be dead. Now they have more people on the payroll and more dead end cases. Contractors have to sell gadgets and new gear. They are confused too. Target America! Spending billions to protect dead end malls with no profit. Create potential crime scenes to justify bloated budgets. Hire more guards. YOYO https://greyenigma.wordpress.com/your-on-your-own/
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  4. Tim says:

    This isn’t really science, is it? I mean . . .

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  5. Looking for a serial killer in Louisiana.Looking for a whitemale based on “a” witness account and “psychological profile”. So they were morons; assuming it was an evil whitemale because whitemales are serial killers. I know this because this is what blacks and the media say. Uh,they gonna adjust that profile?

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    • Replies: @anon
    Profilers (FBI and otherwise) are presently viewed as charlatans.

    The 'serial killers are white men' stereotype died a decade or two ago. Too many black serial killers discovered-- just off the top of my head: LA (John Floyd Thomas, Jr.), Cleveland (Anthony Sowell), Gary, IN (Darren Vann), DC snipers. If If my recollection of the zeitgeist is correct, DC Sniper case might be viewed as the turning point.

    Hispanics have also had their fair share-- Richard Ramirez, the Railroad Killer in TX, Pedro Hernandez (currently on trial, not sure if he's serial).
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  6. Concerns“.

    In related race is social construct news, the NYT recently ran an article about how some non-existent races have more Neanderthal DNA than other non-existent races.

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  7. Re that 2003 La case. IIRC, the lead investigator was a black guy who was quoted as saying he didn’t want to see this technology used to determine the race of suspects. To quote Kevin Costner, we’re through the looking glass, here, people. P.S. In that La case, the victim was, you guessed it, a white woman.

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    • Replies: @David In TN
    The black guy you referred to was a prosecutor named Tony Clayton. Regarding DNA that could tell the race of the suspect, Clayton said: "If I could push a button and make this technology disappear, I would."

    This was the case of serial killer Derrick Todd Lee in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
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  8. Jefferson says:

    “Race Is Just a Social Construct, Except …”

    It is and it isn’t at the same time. After all you have pasty pale blue eyed Elizabeth Warren claiming to be an Amerindian, not even a Mestiza but a straight up Amerindian she claims she is. Meanwhile there are Mexicans who are Browner than her that do not self identify as Amerindian. I bet Julian Castro does not self identify himself as an Amerindian even though he would have more of a legit claim to it than Elizabeth Warren.

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    • Replies: @Big Bill
    I keep reading these neocon accounts of Elizabeth Warren and her getting money and stuff for claiming Indian ancestors (but not, apparently tribal membership). Could you point me to a source--not another neocon talking head, but an actual statement by Warren? You know, like "I am a straight-up Amerindian"?

    Every time I go look I get lost in a neocon echo chamber: " everybody knows!" but no one can give me a link. It's like "global warming" for neocons and ditto-heads: everyone yammers about it, but no one can point to any solid evidence.
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  9. Jay says:

    “But I’ve been hearing for 15 years that two individuals of different races are more genetically similar than two individuals of the same race. I’ve read that in comments sections hundreds of times. Could we have been misled?”

    Yes, you and those who posted such foolish comments were mislead by Richard Lewontin, who interprets genetic variation in accord with his Marxist aims rather than by scientific logic. See the West Hunter article and comments at

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2015/01/20/lewontin-wins-the-craaford-prize/

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  10. vinteuil says: • Website

    Wow – amazing.

    It’s amazing that a bit of dna can give you a snapshot like that -

    And it’s even more amazing that the NYT would admit it!

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  11. It’s been possible for years to tell the race of a suspect by DNA. The Louisiana case caused a certain amount of hand-wringing.

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    • Replies: @rustbeltreader
    FAILED STATE! Like Russia. Oil and gas dropping. Maybe they have malls and can get new security funding from Washington to enlarge security contracting racket. Build massive DNA processing facilities. People used to make a living fishing and feeding people. Now it's feed the state. Pay for pension benefits with new debt.
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  12. anon • Disclaimer says:

    The left will go apesh*t when this technique goes mainstream. No more artist sketches where every perp looks like the unibomber.

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  13. They are going to get better and better at this if they go ahead and build up a mountain of of DNA samples married-up with data from mugshots that have been run through face recognition software. Maybe eventually someone will use all that Big Data to develop an iPhone app that can classify a person according to those complicated Latin American racial caste systems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta

    “You’ve got Zambo!”

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  14. Eighty years ago, Leonarde Keeler’s lie detector made its debut in court. Decades later, we’re still paying the price for his con job. Eighty years ago, Leonarde Keeler’s lie detector made its debut in court. Decades later, we’re still paying the price for his con job.

    New machines can create mugshots with DNA?

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    • Replies: @GW
    To whom are we still paying the price? Bad or insufficient crime detection techniques and technologies can always be amended or removed--we needn't be scared of our shadows here.

    I imagine the faces the computers can draw from a DNA sample are rather rudimentary, just as sketches from an eyewitness's memory attempts to get basic facial features. Unfortunately a DNA sample won't tell you hair length or color (if it's dyed), beard or not, glasses or not, etc. But this doesn't mean innocent people will get locked up, as DNA matching is what will put the perp at the scene of the crime after he's been found through a sketch.

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  15. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Nathan Wartooth
    "Others say use of these techniques could exacerbate racial profiling among law enforcement agencies"

    I'm super confused by this.

    How is finding a suspects DNA and determining their race from it exacerbating racial profiling?

    Is that just a code phrase for saying "more blacks will be locked up?"

    That was presented as a civil rights issue at the Oscars last night.

    Read More
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  16. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Car Hacking Report Refuels Concerns About Michael Hastings Crash”

    http://whowhatwhy.org/2015/02/20/car-hacking-report-refuels-concerns-michael-hastings-crash/

    Read More
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  17. advancedatheist [AKA "RedneckCryonicist"] says:

    I keep waiting for the Southern Poverty Law Center to denounce 23andMe as a hate group by drawing attention to all this inconvenient Noticing, for only $99 and a saliva sample.

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  18. But I’ve been hearing for 15 years that two individuals of different races are more genetically similar than two individuals of the same race. I’ve read that in comments sections hundreds of times. Could we have been misled?”

    It’s immediately self-evident that something will be at least as similar to itself as it will be to something else. Or, the other way around, nothing can be more similar to something than that something itself is.

    So, no we haven’t been misled, which would imply leading us astray in some process of thought. Instead, we’ve simply been presented with an immediately obvious falsehood that can be accepted only in a context in which thought is prevented or at least absent.

    But at least the “two individuals of different races are more genetically similar than two individuals of the same race” is intelligible (though obviously false). The 85/15 thing doesn’t even have a meaning that can be evaluated.

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  19. iSteveFan says:

    My guess is if they ever capture the suspect, and he differs by an iota from the photo in the DNA-generated profile, they will feel vindicated in maintaining their current views even if the suspect is indeed black. They will point out how the guy looks nothing like the predicted image, and that it was merely the fact that since the crime took place in South Carolina, there was a greater probability for a black suspect given local demographics.

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    • Replies: @PenskeFIle
    I'm no expert here, but I suspect that all they did to come up with that image is to construct the "average" face of a west African male. In other words, they didn't use any genes/alleles to inform the shape of the cheeks, nose, chin etc...
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  20. What’s sort of amusing is that it seems like just about the only thing these DNA markers really predict at this point is race and gender. Eye color and skin color and hair curliness too, they say, but I don’t think that knowing the race of someone who’s mostly SubSaharan African is going to make any of those characteristics hard to predict.

    So, basically, it sounds like if it finds a black male was the perpetrator, with the standard amount of admixture for most blacks in the US, it will just produce a generic black male face.

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    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    "So, basically, it sounds like if it finds a black male was the perpetrator, with the standard amount of admixture for most blacks in the US, it will just produce a generic black male face."

     

    We can go one step further to save time and money: Most of the results will be black and male, because most crime is committed by black males. Therefore, we can just assume that every suspect is a black male until it becomes possible to obtain more details.
    , @Harold
    It seems we can do a bit better than that. Here is a New Scientist article on predicting face shape. It includes a comparison between a predictied face and the real face of a New Scientist reporter.
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22129613.600-genetic-mugshot-recreates-faces-from-nothing-but-dna.html
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  21. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Father O'Hara
    Looking for a serial killer in Louisiana.Looking for a whitemale based on "a" witness account and "psychological profile". So they were morons; assuming it was an evil whitemale because whitemales are serial killers. I know this because this is what blacks and the media say. Uh,they gonna adjust that profile?

    Profilers (FBI and otherwise) are presently viewed as charlatans.

    The ‘serial killers are white men’ stereotype died a decade or two ago. Too many black serial killers discovered– just off the top of my head: LA (John Floyd Thomas, Jr.), Cleveland (Anthony Sowell), Gary, IN (Darren Vann), DC snipers. If If my recollection of the zeitgeist is correct, DC Sniper case might be viewed as the turning point.

    Hispanics have also had their fair share– Richard Ramirez, the Railroad Killer in TX, Pedro Hernandez (currently on trial, not sure if he’s serial).

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    African Americans and
    Serial Killing in the Media
    The Myth and the Reality
    ANTHONY WALSH
    Boise State University
    There were many expressions of shock and surprise voiced in the media in 2002 when the
    “D.C. Sniper” turned out to be two Black males. Two of the stereotypes surrounding
    serial killers are that they are almost always White males and that African American
    males are barely represented in their ranks. In a sample of 413 serial killers operating in
    the United States from 1945 to mid-2004, it was found that 90 were African American.
    Relative to the African American proportion of the population across that time period,
    African Americans were overrepresented in the ranks of serial killers by a factor of about
    2. Possible reasons why so few African American serial killers are known to the public are
    explored.
     
    http://www.sagepub.com/gabbidonstudy/articles/Walsh.pdf
    , @SPMoore8
    The first black serial killer that I can recall was Wayne Williams, perpetrator of the Atlanta Child Murders, 1979-81 (Gacy was caught around the same time.)

    An amusing story: I was in Berkeley at the time and on the bus with a couple of female progressives sitting in front of me, and they were discussing these terrible racist murders in Atlanta, which they were sure were being carried out by the Klan. So then one of them turns to the other and says, "But you know like I have also heard that maybe the guy who did this was like gay." Dead silence the rest of the ride.

    I will admit, based on my readings, I usually think of serial killers as being white, and also into some kind of weird sexual stuff. And then of course there are a number who have been like gay.
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    "Profilers (FBI and otherwise) are presently viewed as charlatans."

    Since you're so knowledgeable on the subject please provide a couple of citations in support of your (false) assertion.

    Profiling isn't what folks like you see in movies and television. It's a combination of statistical hypotheses about the offender based on very large databases, e.g., the FBI's VICAP system, combined with the professional expertise of homicide investigators, psychiatrists and others who have hands-on experience with serial murder investigations and serial murderers. Good profiling provides ideas on how to conduct an investigation. It may give patrol officers ideas of types of suspicious behavior to look for and investigate when ordinarily they might not. It can help prosecutors plan trial strategies to convict an offender. Examples of each of these are provided by the Yorkshire Ripper investigation, the investigation and trial of Wayne Williams, and the capture and conviction of the Dennis Rader, the BTK killer. These cases would probably never have been solved without the input of profilers.

    About a a quarter century ago I did research on serial murder and other similar types of homicide stretching over a decade until I burned out. During this time I did some consulting work for the FBI's BSU. I know whereof I speak.

    I'd like to add that those who studied serial homicides even before I temporarily got into the field were well aware that Negroes were over-represented among serial killers. As an example, based purely on statistical patterns, if elderly white women were being burglarized, raped, and savagely killed by an ineperienced perpetrator, past similar crimes suggested that the perpetrator quite possibly might be a teenage or slightly older Negro male, well-known to the victims and in the neighborhood. Often these young males would have a reputation of being especially well-behaved, soft-spoken etc. This was always presented as a possibility to be looked into, not a firm conclusion. On more than several occasions it led the police to a perpetrator whom otherwise it was likely they would have overlooked.
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  22. Hipster says:

    Face is just a social construct

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  23. G Pinfold says:

    I’ll send the link to everyone who’s been sayin’ I’m soo fiine on account of an easy life. Not lazy, just born purdy, baby.

    Read More
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  24. GW says:
    @rustbeltreader
    Eighty years ago, Leonarde Keeler’s lie detector made its debut in court. Decades later, we’re still paying the price for his con job. Eighty years ago, Leonarde Keeler’s lie detector made its debut in court. Decades later, we’re still paying the price for his con job.

    New machines can create mugshots with DNA?

    To whom are we still paying the price? Bad or insufficient crime detection techniques and technologies can always be amended or removed–we needn’t be scared of our shadows here.

    I imagine the faces the computers can draw from a DNA sample are rather rudimentary, just as sketches from an eyewitness’s memory attempts to get basic facial features. Unfortunately a DNA sample won’t tell you hair length or color (if it’s dyed), beard or not, glasses or not, etc. But this doesn’t mean innocent people will get locked up, as DNA matching is what will put the perp at the scene of the crime after he’s been found through a sketch.

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  25. SPMoore8 says:

    “Racial profiling” is as old as phrenology (or physiognomy.)

    What people usually mean when they say stupid stuff like “race is a social construct” is because, in America, there are a lot of people at the margins whose race is not so much how they appear but how they are identified or self-identify. That “one drop rule” stuff caused a lot of problems.

    The other way in which the term is used of course is to argue that on a “macro” level there are no such things as “races”, and to be tedious, maybe there’s something to that POV; I never could warm to the distinction between “Alpines” and “Nordics” or between “dolichocephalics” and “brachyocephalics” as applied to Europeans.

    Biology is destiny for a lot of people, but not for everyone. And you can’t always tell at first glance if someone is the one, or the other.

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    • Replies: @silviosilver

    The other way in which the term is used of course is to argue that on a “macro” level there are no such things as “races”, and to be tedious, maybe there’s something to that POV; I never could warm to the distinction between “Alpines” and “Nordics” or between “dolichocephalics” and “brachyocephalics” as applied to Europeans.
     
    To me the "macro" level is the broadest racial distinctions, like whites, blacks, yellows - distinctions that it's mind-boggling anybody would attempt to deny or could pretend not to notice in everyday life. As you go move down the scale from macro to micro racial distinctiveness fades, often to the point that people can quite justifiably claim that distinctions don't really exist. I find you sometimes have to abruptly magnify race back to the macro in order to jolt such people out of their complacency.
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  26. syonredux says: • Website

    Off-topic but interesting

    These strangely decorated, brightly-colored buildings in El Alto, Bolivia, are the early examples of a new Bolivian architectural style, started after the election of President Evo Morales Ayma in 2006, when the national pride became more important than ever. Appropriately, they are called cohetillos — “spaceships.”

    The key architect behind these so-called cohetillos is Freddy Mamani Silvestre.

    There are more than sixty buildings in the city designed by Silvestre, so he’s definitely in the same group with Oscar Niemeyer and Antoni Gaudí, who also changed (or defined) the look of a whole city.

    http://io9.com/these-brilliantly-colored-bolivian-buildings-look-like-1687418694

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    • Replies: @Melendwyr
    It's like living in a pinball machine mosaicked in rainbow chicklets by a teenage girl with a glue gun. Or a palace wallpapered and designed by Lisa Frank.

    Too many flavors deaden the palate; too many colors blind the sight. Or you just wish you were blind...
    , @unit472
    Sheesh. If the exteriors didn't look like 1960's 'day glo' acid art , the interiors look like something you see at the cheapest beach resort or touring carnival. The iron grills and roll down security covers over the first floor windows say a lot too! My eyes hurt!
    , @IA
    Really interesting. Thanks for the link.
    , @MartianObserver
    I really like the exteriors but I'm iffy about the interiors. Still far more interesting than most of the stuff that passes for architecture in the rest of the world.
    , @Steve Sailer
    Sid and Marty Kroft drop a lot of acid and take kids on a hallucinogenic trip through the insides of a slot machine.
    , @donut
    What will they look like when the paint starts to peel ?
    , @Paco Wové
    "These strangely decorated, brightly-colored buildings"

    At least it's not Yet More Frank Fucking Gehry.
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  27. This is really big, that the Times would print such a piece. And all the more so that the graphic example is of a black man. Charles Blow must be experiencing a serious case of the vapors right now.

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    • Replies: @Ivy
    Think of the NYT volte face as preparation for the 2016 election. They may be admitting that the Demo big tent of grievances was doomed to failure, as if the 2014 election results weren't enough of a loud message.

    So their new tack is to zig back to the center and see how many centrist R'so they can pick up to offset a declining lefty wing, that doesn't want to give enough money anyway?

    What do you think?
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  28. @Nathan Wartooth
    "Others say use of these techniques could exacerbate racial profiling among law enforcement agencies"

    I'm super confused by this.

    How is finding a suspects DNA and determining their race from it exacerbating racial profiling?

    Is that just a code phrase for saying "more blacks will be locked up?"

    Your DNA is all over the place. It’s in your trash cans. It is good to prove you innocent. Building a case? They spent three months and thousands of dollars. They found the suspect, who happened to be dead. Now they have more people on the payroll and more dead end cases. Contractors have to sell gadgets and new gear. They are confused too. Target America! Spending billions to protect dead end malls with no profit. Create potential crime scenes to justify bloated budgets. Hire more guards. YOYO https://greyenigma.wordpress.com/your-on-your-own/

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  29. @David In TN
    It's been possible for years to tell the race of a suspect by DNA. The Louisiana case caused a certain amount of hand-wringing.

    FAILED STATE! Like Russia. Oil and gas dropping. Maybe they have malls and can get new security funding from Washington to enlarge security contracting racket. Build massive DNA processing facilities. People used to make a living fishing and feeding people. Now it’s feed the state. Pay for pension benefits with new debt.

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  30. unit472 says:

    Got news for the NYU law professor, Erin Murphy. Technology is always ahead of the ‘popular debate and discussion’. I recall a NOVA program from a couple of years back that showed the state of the art on ‘lie detection’. It is way beyond polygraph machines. The real problem in the decades ahead is what are we going to do with all of our law enforcement personnel as crime detection and identification become just a matter of downloading video, traffic and other data bases. When your car will convict you of traffic violations. When every financial transaction you make is available from your bank. Only the cleverest, most hi-tech criminals will stand a chance. The hoodrat’s are going to be put out of business.

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    • Replies: @Escher
    We will be living in the world of "Minority Report" when that happens. I for one do not relish the prospect.
    , @donut
    If you are referring to the NOVA program "Forensics on Trial" , I saw it too and was properly alarmed . Here is an article reviewing the show :

    http://boingboing.net/2012/10/17/why-forensic-science-is-failin.html

    The NAS book she refers to is $36.oo . But you can download the PDF for free from their site .

    , @David M.
    As you say, perhaps only the most high-tech criminals will have a decent chance of success, but what makes this really scary is that some hoodrats will still decide to make a go of it anyhow. Combine a cashless economy with a higher likelihood of getting caught, and criminals will resort to higher payoff, more violent methods. Home invasions for one thing, but also something along the lines of - "I am going to hold this gun against your spouse's head while you go into the diamond store and empty out your bank account buying me some diamonds." So crime may become comparatively more rare, but on balance much worse.
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  31. @Malcolm X-Lax
    Re that 2003 La case. IIRC, the lead investigator was a black guy who was quoted as saying he didn't want to see this technology used to determine the race of suspects. To quote Kevin Costner, we're through the looking glass, here, people. P.S. In that La case, the victim was, you guessed it, a white woman.

    The black guy you referred to was a prosecutor named Tony Clayton. Regarding DNA that could tell the race of the suspect, Clayton said: “If I could push a button and make this technology disappear, I would.”

    This was the case of serial killer Derrick Todd Lee in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

    Read More
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  32. Escher says:
    @unit472
    Got news for the NYU law professor, Erin Murphy. Technology is always ahead of the 'popular debate and discussion'. I recall a NOVA program from a couple of years back that showed the state of the art on 'lie detection'. It is way beyond polygraph machines. The real problem in the decades ahead is what are we going to do with all of our law enforcement personnel as crime detection and identification become just a matter of downloading video, traffic and other data bases. When your car will convict you of traffic violations. When every financial transaction you make is available from your bank. Only the cleverest, most hi-tech criminals will stand a chance. The hoodrat's are going to be put out of business.

    We will be living in the world of “Minority Report” when that happens. I for one do not relish the prospect.

    Read More
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  33. syonredux says: • Website
    @anon
    Profilers (FBI and otherwise) are presently viewed as charlatans.

    The 'serial killers are white men' stereotype died a decade or two ago. Too many black serial killers discovered-- just off the top of my head: LA (John Floyd Thomas, Jr.), Cleveland (Anthony Sowell), Gary, IN (Darren Vann), DC snipers. If If my recollection of the zeitgeist is correct, DC Sniper case might be viewed as the turning point.

    Hispanics have also had their fair share-- Richard Ramirez, the Railroad Killer in TX, Pedro Hernandez (currently on trial, not sure if he's serial).

    African Americans and
    Serial Killing in the Media
    The Myth and the Reality
    ANTHONY WALSH
    Boise State University
    There were many expressions of shock and surprise voiced in the media in 2002 when the
    “D.C. Sniper” turned out to be two Black males. Two of the stereotypes surrounding
    serial killers are that they are almost always White males and that African American
    males are barely represented in their ranks. In a sample of 413 serial killers operating in
    the United States from 1945 to mid-2004, it was found that 90 were African American.
    Relative to the African American proportion of the population across that time period,
    African Americans were overrepresented in the ranks of serial killers by a factor of about
    2. Possible reasons why so few African American serial killers are known to the public are
    explored.

    http://www.sagepub.com/gabbidonstudy/articles/Walsh.pdf

    Read More
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  34. Melendwyr says: • Website
    @syonredux
    Off-topic but interesting

    These strangely decorated, brightly-colored buildings in El Alto, Bolivia, are the early examples of a new Bolivian architectural style, started after the election of President Evo Morales Ayma in 2006, when the national pride became more important than ever. Appropriately, they are called cohetillos — "spaceships."

    The key architect behind these so-called cohetillos is Freddy Mamani Silvestre.


    There are more than sixty buildings in the city designed by Silvestre, so he's definitely in the same group with Oscar Niemeyer and Antoni Gaudí, who also changed (or defined) the look of a whole city.

     

    http://io9.com/these-brilliantly-colored-bolivian-buildings-look-like-1687418694

    It’s like living in a pinball machine mosaicked in rainbow chicklets by a teenage girl with a glue gun. Or a palace wallpapered and designed by Lisa Frank.

    Too many flavors deaden the palate; too many colors blind the sight. Or you just wish you were blind…

    Read More
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  35. unit472 says:
    @syonredux
    Off-topic but interesting

    These strangely decorated, brightly-colored buildings in El Alto, Bolivia, are the early examples of a new Bolivian architectural style, started after the election of President Evo Morales Ayma in 2006, when the national pride became more important than ever. Appropriately, they are called cohetillos — "spaceships."

    The key architect behind these so-called cohetillos is Freddy Mamani Silvestre.


    There are more than sixty buildings in the city designed by Silvestre, so he's definitely in the same group with Oscar Niemeyer and Antoni Gaudí, who also changed (or defined) the look of a whole city.

     

    http://io9.com/these-brilliantly-colored-bolivian-buildings-look-like-1687418694

    Sheesh. If the exteriors didn’t look like 1960′s ‘day glo’ acid art , the interiors look like something you see at the cheapest beach resort or touring carnival. The iron grills and roll down security covers over the first floor windows say a lot too! My eyes hurt!

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  36. duderino says:

    I “learned” that the DNA of a black man could have more in common with me than an unrelated white man in freshman sociology. Therefore race isn’t real! My first thought was, well, even if that’s true, wouldn’t a scatter plot of DNA measurements broken down by trait show that in aggregate the races were typically much different?

    I think its probably true that I could have a black doppleganger somewhere. I just suspect there’s infinitely more white dopplegangers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Big Bill
    A prosaic illustration of Lewontin's fallacy:

    Women range in height between about 3 feet tall and 7 feet tall, for an "in-group" range of about 4 feet. Men range between 4 feet and 8 feet, again, for a range of about 4 feet.

    The difference of AVERAGE height between men and women is about 6 inches.

    Since the AVERAGE difference between men and women (6 inches) is much less than the range of heights within the male and female populations (4 feet), it makes no logical sense to say that "men are taller than women".

    [And hence it must be sexism that keeps women out of the NBA. ;)]
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  37. SPMoore8 says:
    @anon
    Profilers (FBI and otherwise) are presently viewed as charlatans.

    The 'serial killers are white men' stereotype died a decade or two ago. Too many black serial killers discovered-- just off the top of my head: LA (John Floyd Thomas, Jr.), Cleveland (Anthony Sowell), Gary, IN (Darren Vann), DC snipers. If If my recollection of the zeitgeist is correct, DC Sniper case might be viewed as the turning point.

    Hispanics have also had their fair share-- Richard Ramirez, the Railroad Killer in TX, Pedro Hernandez (currently on trial, not sure if he's serial).

    The first black serial killer that I can recall was Wayne Williams, perpetrator of the Atlanta Child Murders, 1979-81 (Gacy was caught around the same time.)

    An amusing story: I was in Berkeley at the time and on the bus with a couple of female progressives sitting in front of me, and they were discussing these terrible racist murders in Atlanta, which they were sure were being carried out by the Klan. So then one of them turns to the other and says, “But you know like I have also heard that maybe the guy who did this was like gay.” Dead silence the rest of the ride.

    I will admit, based on my readings, I usually think of serial killers as being white, and also into some kind of weird sexual stuff. And then of course there are a number who have been like gay.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    African Americans and
    Serial Killing in the Media
    The Myth and the Reality
    ANTHONY WALSH
    Boise State University
    There were many expressions of shock and surprise voiced in the media in 2002 when the
    “D.C. Sniper” turned out to be two Black males. Two of the stereotypes surrounding
    serial killers are that they are almost always White males and that African American
    males are barely represented in their ranks. In a sample of 413 serial killers operating in
    the United States from 1945 to mid-2004, it was found that 90 were African American.
    Relative to the African American proportion of the population across that time period,
    African Americans were overrepresented in the ranks of serial killers by a factor of about
    2. Possible reasons why so few African American serial killers are known to the public are
    explored.
     
    http://www.sagepub.com/gabbidonstudy/articles/Walsh.pdf
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  38. Jefferson says:

    “I keep waiting for the Southern Poverty Law Center to denounce 23andMe as a hate group by drawing attention to all this inconvenient Noticing, for only $99 and a saliva sample.”

    The biggest haters of 23AndMe are fake Amerindians. A lot of people are disappointed to find out they either have too little Amerindian admixture or none at all after taking a DNA test with 23AndMe.

    Read More
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  39. The ‘serial killers are white men’ stereotype died a decade or two ago. Too many black serial killers discovered– just off the top of my head: LA (John Floyd Thomas, Jr.), Cleveland (Anthony Sowell), Gary, IN (Darren Vann), DC snipers. If If my recollection of the zeitgeist is correct, DC Sniper case might be viewed as the turning point.

    Wasn’t Wayne Williams in Atlanta the most prolific of them all?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Juan Corona was one of the first of the long line of Seventies serial killers that made scary stories around the campfire really scary in the 1970s.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Corona

    , @Truth

    Wasn’t Wayne Williams in Atlanta the most prolific of them all?
     
    Six or seven years ago in the Steve-O-Sphere we were going with the "blacks don't serial kill because it takes great intellect" meme.

    Now that it has been proven that there are black serial killers, have we collectively abandoned this?

    Let me know, it's hard to keep up here sometimes.
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  40. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Here’s an article from Wired in 2007 that talked about the Louisiana case:

    http://archive.wired.com/politics/law/magazine/16-01/ps_dna

    The technique of this and the tech in the NYT article rely on correlations of genes, so it’s compatible with Sailer’s definition of race, but of course undermines the straw-man definition that requires blacks and whites to have completely different DNA or something.

    Read More
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  41. syonredux says: • Website
    @SPMoore8
    The first black serial killer that I can recall was Wayne Williams, perpetrator of the Atlanta Child Murders, 1979-81 (Gacy was caught around the same time.)

    An amusing story: I was in Berkeley at the time and on the bus with a couple of female progressives sitting in front of me, and they were discussing these terrible racist murders in Atlanta, which they were sure were being carried out by the Klan. So then one of them turns to the other and says, "But you know like I have also heard that maybe the guy who did this was like gay." Dead silence the rest of the ride.

    I will admit, based on my readings, I usually think of serial killers as being white, and also into some kind of weird sexual stuff. And then of course there are a number who have been like gay.

    African Americans and
    Serial Killing in the Media
    The Myth and the Reality
    ANTHONY WALSH
    Boise State University
    There were many expressions of shock and surprise voiced in the media in 2002 when the
    “D.C. Sniper” turned out to be two Black males. Two of the stereotypes surrounding
    serial killers are that they are almost always White males and that African American
    males are barely represented in their ranks. In a sample of 413 serial killers operating in
    the United States from 1945 to mid-2004, it was found that 90 were African American.
    Relative to the African American proportion of the population across that time period,
    African Americans were overrepresented in the ranks of serial killers by a factor of about
    2. Possible reasons why so few African American serial killers are known to the public are
    explored.

    http://www.sagepub.com/gabbidonstudy/articles/Walsh.pdf

    Read More
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  42. @ben tillman

    The ‘serial killers are white men’ stereotype died a decade or two ago. Too many black serial killers discovered– just off the top of my head: LA (John Floyd Thomas, Jr.), Cleveland (Anthony Sowell), Gary, IN (Darren Vann), DC snipers. If If my recollection of the zeitgeist is correct, DC Sniper case might be viewed as the turning point.
     
    Wasn't Wayne Williams in Atlanta the most prolific of them all?

    Juan Corona was one of the first of the long line of Seventies serial killers that made scary stories around the campfire really scary in the 1970s.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Corona

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux
    Our wide-open borders at work again:

    Born in Autlán, Jalisco state, Mexico, Corona first entered the United States in 1950. Crossing the border into California illegally, the 16-year-old picked carrots and melons in the Imperial Valley for three months before moving on north to the Sacramento Valley. His half-brother, Natividad Corona (c. 1923–May 23, 1973), had migrated to the state in 1944 to work, and settled at Marysville, across the Feather River from Yuba City.

    Corona moved to the Marysville/Yuba City area in May 1953, at the suggestion of Natividad, and found work on a local ranch. He was first married to Gabriella E. Hermosillo on October 24, 1953, in Reno, Nevada.[1] In 1959, he married Gloria I. Moreno and they had four daughters.

    In late December 1955, a flood occurred on the Yuba and Feather Rivers. It was one of the most widespread and destructive of any in the recorded history of Northern California.[2] A rush of water broke through the west levee and flooded 150 square miles (390 km2), killing 38 people. Corona was strangely affected by the death and destruction and had a mental breakdown. He believed everyone had died in the flood and that he was living in a land of ghosts.

    Corona was suffering from an episode of schizophrenia.[3] On January 17, 1956, Natividad had him committed to DeWitt State Hospital in Auburn, California, where he was diagnosed with "schizophrenic reaction, paranoid type." He received 23 shock treatments, before being pronounced recovered and released only three months later.

    Afterward, Corona was deported back to Mexico.[4] Corona then returned to the U.S. legally, with a green card. At this time, he stopped drinking. Aside from schizophrenic episodes and a reported violent temper, Corona was regarded as a hard worker. In 1962, he became a licensed labor contractor. He was in charge of hiring workers to staff the local fruit ranches.

     

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  43. At least they did not whine about this based on “privacy” concerns. After all, we need to be fair to the killer.

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  44. @anon
    Profilers (FBI and otherwise) are presently viewed as charlatans.

    The 'serial killers are white men' stereotype died a decade or two ago. Too many black serial killers discovered-- just off the top of my head: LA (John Floyd Thomas, Jr.), Cleveland (Anthony Sowell), Gary, IN (Darren Vann), DC snipers. If If my recollection of the zeitgeist is correct, DC Sniper case might be viewed as the turning point.

    Hispanics have also had their fair share-- Richard Ramirez, the Railroad Killer in TX, Pedro Hernandez (currently on trial, not sure if he's serial).

    “Profilers (FBI and otherwise) are presently viewed as charlatans.”

    Since you’re so knowledgeable on the subject please provide a couple of citations in support of your (false) assertion.

    Profiling isn’t what folks like you see in movies and television. It’s a combination of statistical hypotheses about the offender based on very large databases, e.g., the FBI’s VICAP system, combined with the professional expertise of homicide investigators, psychiatrists and others who have hands-on experience with serial murder investigations and serial murderers. Good profiling provides ideas on how to conduct an investigation. It may give patrol officers ideas of types of suspicious behavior to look for and investigate when ordinarily they might not. It can help prosecutors plan trial strategies to convict an offender. Examples of each of these are provided by the Yorkshire Ripper investigation, the investigation and trial of Wayne Williams, and the capture and conviction of the Dennis Rader, the BTK killer. These cases would probably never have been solved without the input of profilers.

    About a a quarter century ago I did research on serial murder and other similar types of homicide stretching over a decade until I burned out. During this time I did some consulting work for the FBI’s BSU. I know whereof I speak.

    I’d like to add that those who studied serial homicides even before I temporarily got into the field were well aware that Negroes were over-represented among serial killers. As an example, based purely on statistical patterns, if elderly white women were being burglarized, raped, and savagely killed by an ineperienced perpetrator, past similar crimes suggested that the perpetrator quite possibly might be a teenage or slightly older Negro male, well-known to the victims and in the neighborhood. Often these young males would have a reputation of being especially well-behaved, soft-spoken etc. This was always presented as a possibility to be looked into, not a firm conclusion. On more than several occasions it led the police to a perpetrator whom otherwise it was likely they would have overlooked.

    Read More
    • Replies: @donut
    I don't know one way or the other but here is one critique of profilers :

    http://www.information-international.com/info/index.php/the-monthly/articles/728-criminal-profilers

    There are plenty of others.

    On the other hand George Metesky was wearing a double breasted suit when arrested .
    , @anon
    I will defer to donut's response as "evidence". I just don't have the motivation to deeply delve into researching the issue.


    It's interesting that you mention BTK as an example of where profilers' insights were crucial to a case's eventual solving. In the little cursory google searching I did perform, I came across a 2007 profiler takedown piece by Malcolm Gladwell (I know, I know). The article articulates FBI profilers' "contributions" to the BTK investigation. Their work seemingly boils down to six hours of plying the techniques long used by astrologers and psychics: vague, ambiguous, and contradictory language that can support numerous conclusions.

    Since we on this blog are presumably all literate regarding the particulars of IQ distributions, one of their predictions is especially funny: that the suspect's IQ was somewhere between 105 and 145! That's obviously a laughably wide net, but if you're going to make a probabilistic guess, why not up your odds and decrease the nominal range of your guess by going with 95-115?

    Rader in actuality, according to Wikipedia, was identified by police thusly:

    In his letters to police, Rader asked if his writings, if put on a floppy disk, could be traced or not. The police answered his question in a newspaper ad [...] saying it would be safe to use the disk. [In February 2005 Rader mailed a floppy disk to a local news station on which police] found metadata embedded in a deleted Microsoft Word document that was, unbeknownst to Rader, on the floppy disk. The metadata contained "Christ Lutheran Church", and the document was marked as last modified by "Dennis". An internet search determined that a "Dennis Rader" was president of the church council.
     

    , @anonymous

    if elderly white women were being burglarized, raped, and savagely killed by an ineperienced perpetrator, past similar crimes suggested that the perpetrator quite possibly might be a teenage or slightly older Negro male, well-known to the victims and in the neighborhood. Often these young males would have a reputation of being especially well-behaved, soft-spoken etc.
     
    That's actually how many of these things work out. 'Him? But he was always so polite, I can't believe it' Sometimes charm is not charm but just a tool.
    , @Anonymous
    But do you know why they had that reputation before such a brutal crime?? Do you know what your profiling had discovered?

    A negro metamorph! Humans undergo puberty, but not metamorphosis. We retain juvenile neotenic behaviors our entire lives. Negroes, however, undergo metamorphosis shortly after puberty. This is why seemingly wonderful children suddenly become dangerous animals. It's no mystery, once you understand the biology at work. Negroes are at their most dangerous during metamorphosis.

    The same thing can be seen in the Axolotl versus the Tiger Salamander.

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  45. syonredux says: • Website
    @Steve Sailer
    Juan Corona was one of the first of the long line of Seventies serial killers that made scary stories around the campfire really scary in the 1970s.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Corona

    Our wide-open borders at work again:

    Born in Autlán, Jalisco state, Mexico, Corona first entered the United States in 1950. Crossing the border into California illegally, the 16-year-old picked carrots and melons in the Imperial Valley for three months before moving on north to the Sacramento Valley. His half-brother, Natividad Corona (c. 1923–May 23, 1973), had migrated to the state in 1944 to work, and settled at Marysville, across the Feather River from Yuba City.

    Corona moved to the Marysville/Yuba City area in May 1953, at the suggestion of Natividad, and found work on a local ranch. He was first married to Gabriella E. Hermosillo on October 24, 1953, in Reno, Nevada.[1] In 1959, he married Gloria I. Moreno and they had four daughters.

    In late December 1955, a flood occurred on the Yuba and Feather Rivers. It was one of the most widespread and destructive of any in the recorded history of Northern California.[2] A rush of water broke through the west levee and flooded 150 square miles (390 km2), killing 38 people. Corona was strangely affected by the death and destruction and had a mental breakdown. He believed everyone had died in the flood and that he was living in a land of ghosts.

    Corona was suffering from an episode of schizophrenia.[3] On January 17, 1956, Natividad had him committed to DeWitt State Hospital in Auburn, California, where he was diagnosed with “schizophrenic reaction, paranoid type.” He received 23 shock treatments, before being pronounced recovered and released only three months later.

    Afterward, Corona was deported back to Mexico.[4] Corona then returned to the U.S. legally, with a green card. At this time, he stopped drinking. Aside from schizophrenic episodes and a reported violent temper, Corona was regarded as a hard worker. In 1962, he became a licensed labor contractor. He was in charge of hiring workers to staff the local fruit ranches.

    Read More
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  46. donut says:
    @unit472
    Got news for the NYU law professor, Erin Murphy. Technology is always ahead of the 'popular debate and discussion'. I recall a NOVA program from a couple of years back that showed the state of the art on 'lie detection'. It is way beyond polygraph machines. The real problem in the decades ahead is what are we going to do with all of our law enforcement personnel as crime detection and identification become just a matter of downloading video, traffic and other data bases. When your car will convict you of traffic violations. When every financial transaction you make is available from your bank. Only the cleverest, most hi-tech criminals will stand a chance. The hoodrat's are going to be put out of business.

    If you are referring to the NOVA program “Forensics on Trial” , I saw it too and was properly alarmed . Here is an article reviewing the show :

    http://boingboing.net/2012/10/17/why-forensic-science-is-failin.html

    The NAS book she refers to is $36.oo . But you can download the PDF for free from their site .

    Read More
    • Replies: @unit472
    No, Forensics on Trial was interesting but the NOVA I'm a referring to had more to do with neuroscience and how our brains hesitate and construct different observable neural pathways when we attempt to deceive. A University of South Carolina professor had a scanner that imaged these in, as I recall, color patterns.
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  47. Jefferson says:

    “But DNA found at the site of one of the murders indicated the person’s ancestry was 85 percent sub-Saharan African. Eventually, a black man was convicted of the crimes.”

    They are part of the Black underclass. I notice that Blacks who live in poverty on average are darker than middle class/upper class Blacks.

    I would not be surprised if most of the Black underclass are genetically between 85 percent to 95 percent Sub Saharan African.

    The genetic ancestry of the Black underclass has never been studied. Most Blacks who take 23AndMe or AncestryByDNA are middle class Blacks.

    I remember seeing images of New Orleans Black underclass during Katrina and the vast majority of them did not look like they have significant Caucasian ancestry, meaning the vast majority of them did not look like the Mulato duo of Eric Holder and Hussein Obama. Most of them looked more like WWE wrestlers Mark Henry and Booker T.

    Read More
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  48. IA says:
    @syonredux
    Off-topic but interesting

    These strangely decorated, brightly-colored buildings in El Alto, Bolivia, are the early examples of a new Bolivian architectural style, started after the election of President Evo Morales Ayma in 2006, when the national pride became more important than ever. Appropriately, they are called cohetillos — "spaceships."

    The key architect behind these so-called cohetillos is Freddy Mamani Silvestre.


    There are more than sixty buildings in the city designed by Silvestre, so he's definitely in the same group with Oscar Niemeyer and Antoni Gaudí, who also changed (or defined) the look of a whole city.

     

    http://io9.com/these-brilliantly-colored-bolivian-buildings-look-like-1687418694

    Really interesting. Thanks for the link.

    Read More
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  49. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    race is a social construct in the same sense that species is a social construct. According to the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, “species is controversial in biology and philosophy. Biologists disagree on the definition of the term ‘species,’ and philosophers disagree over the ontological status of species. Yet a proper understanding of species is important for a number of reasons. ”

    That sounds an awful lot like race.

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/species/

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  50. dixie says:

    But I’ve been hearing for 15 years that two individuals of different races are more genetically similar than two individuals of the same race. I’ve read that in comments sections hundreds of times. Could we have been misled?

    Simply disinformation. The two cases cannot be directly compare, just like comparing apple with orange.

    In the first case the difference is between the two population means. The second case is between two particular persons. If using the same condition as the first case, the first person would be represented by the pop mean, similarly for the second person. So under the same condition as case 1 the diff for case 2 would be zero.

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  51. donut says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    "Profilers (FBI and otherwise) are presently viewed as charlatans."

    Since you're so knowledgeable on the subject please provide a couple of citations in support of your (false) assertion.

    Profiling isn't what folks like you see in movies and television. It's a combination of statistical hypotheses about the offender based on very large databases, e.g., the FBI's VICAP system, combined with the professional expertise of homicide investigators, psychiatrists and others who have hands-on experience with serial murder investigations and serial murderers. Good profiling provides ideas on how to conduct an investigation. It may give patrol officers ideas of types of suspicious behavior to look for and investigate when ordinarily they might not. It can help prosecutors plan trial strategies to convict an offender. Examples of each of these are provided by the Yorkshire Ripper investigation, the investigation and trial of Wayne Williams, and the capture and conviction of the Dennis Rader, the BTK killer. These cases would probably never have been solved without the input of profilers.

    About a a quarter century ago I did research on serial murder and other similar types of homicide stretching over a decade until I burned out. During this time I did some consulting work for the FBI's BSU. I know whereof I speak.

    I'd like to add that those who studied serial homicides even before I temporarily got into the field were well aware that Negroes were over-represented among serial killers. As an example, based purely on statistical patterns, if elderly white women were being burglarized, raped, and savagely killed by an ineperienced perpetrator, past similar crimes suggested that the perpetrator quite possibly might be a teenage or slightly older Negro male, well-known to the victims and in the neighborhood. Often these young males would have a reputation of being especially well-behaved, soft-spoken etc. This was always presented as a possibility to be looked into, not a firm conclusion. On more than several occasions it led the police to a perpetrator whom otherwise it was likely they would have overlooked.

    I don’t know one way or the other but here is one critique of profilers :

    http://www.information-international.com/info/index.php/the-monthly/articles/728-criminal-profilers

    There are plenty of others.

    On the other hand George Metesky was wearing a double breasted suit when arrested .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    From the cite: "Reality: Criminal Profilers’ Predictions are not always Reliable and Useful Investigative Tools"

    Hardly anything in the social sciences is "always reliable and useful". The studies cited suggest problems with profiling when too much reliance is put on the method, not that it is useless.

    Meteskey was a special case. Most of the analysis was a linguistic analysis of a good number of letters written by the bomber. The double-breasted suit was a gamble - based on much more firm inferences - that wound up paying off.

    Modern profiling did not begin with this case and in fact didn't start until decades later.
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  52. unit472 says:
    @donut
    If you are referring to the NOVA program "Forensics on Trial" , I saw it too and was properly alarmed . Here is an article reviewing the show :

    http://boingboing.net/2012/10/17/why-forensic-science-is-failin.html

    The NAS book she refers to is $36.oo . But you can download the PDF for free from their site .

    No, Forensics on Trial was interesting but the NOVA I’m a referring to had more to do with neuroscience and how our brains hesitate and construct different observable neural pathways when we attempt to deceive. A University of South Carolina professor had a scanner that imaged these in, as I recall, color patterns.

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  53. @syonredux
    Off-topic but interesting

    These strangely decorated, brightly-colored buildings in El Alto, Bolivia, are the early examples of a new Bolivian architectural style, started after the election of President Evo Morales Ayma in 2006, when the national pride became more important than ever. Appropriately, they are called cohetillos — "spaceships."

    The key architect behind these so-called cohetillos is Freddy Mamani Silvestre.


    There are more than sixty buildings in the city designed by Silvestre, so he's definitely in the same group with Oscar Niemeyer and Antoni Gaudí, who also changed (or defined) the look of a whole city.

     

    http://io9.com/these-brilliantly-colored-bolivian-buildings-look-like-1687418694

    I really like the exteriors but I’m iffy about the interiors. Still far more interesting than most of the stuff that passes for architecture in the rest of the world.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The idea of a trying to innovate architecturally as an expression of national pride is promising. The exteriors might get better as the colors fade in the sun over the years. The interiors, though ...
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  54. @candid_observer
    What's sort of amusing is that it seems like just about the only thing these DNA markers really predict at this point is race and gender. Eye color and skin color and hair curliness too, they say, but I don't think that knowing the race of someone who's mostly SubSaharan African is going to make any of those characteristics hard to predict.

    So, basically, it sounds like if it finds a black male was the perpetrator, with the standard amount of admixture for most blacks in the US, it will just produce a generic black male face.

    “So, basically, it sounds like if it finds a black male was the perpetrator, with the standard amount of admixture for most blacks in the US, it will just produce a generic black male face.”

    We can go one step further to save time and money: Most of the results will be black and male, because most crime is committed by black males. Therefore, we can just assume that every suspect is a black male until it becomes possible to obtain more details.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Most of the results will be black and male, because most crime is committed by black males.
    ==
    The most recent data published by the Bureau of Justice Statistics on violent crime (derived from survey research undertaken in 2007) has it that about 25% of perpetrators who can be identified by race were black. The one category of crime where in black perpetrators were a majority was robbery. (One other curio from those statistics: nearly all rapes of black women are by other blacks. Rapes by a white or mestizo or oriental perpetrator are so rare they cannot be detected with conventional survey research tools).

    (N.B.these stats concerned crimes with a single perpetrator).

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  55. awesome says:

    Look, this technology will lead to more racial profiling. Just because the DNA proves that the suspect was black, doesn’t mean that a whole lot of innocent black people won’t unfairly be targeted as police question suspects. And of course because the DNA proves that the suspect is black, now there will be no innocent white people who are incorrectly targeted by police either. So once again only innocent blacks will be unfairly targeted. Clearly the only just thing the police can do is make sure that for every innocent black that is unfairly questioned in association with a crime they didn’t commit, 2 innocent white people are also brought in for questioning.

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    • Replies: @CK
    So, for any specific crime, the pool of potentially innocent people is expanded by each forward step in forensic technology. Likewise, the pool of potentially guilty people shrinks. Each step forward guarantees that fewer and fewer innocents will be bothered. The end result is that discovered DNA is a confession of guilt by the guilty and no innocents will be profiled or bothered. Clearly the only just thing to do is to continue improving the technology to that point where if YOU do the crime; You will do the time.
    , @Anonymous Nephew
    "And of course because the DNA proves that the suspect is black, now there will be no innocent white people who are incorrectly targeted by police either. "

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delroy_Easton_Grant#DNA_controversy

    Delroy Grant raped elderly white women in their South London homes between 1992 and 2009. The good news is the police didn't consider these to be 'hate crimes'.

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  56. @syonredux
    Off-topic but interesting

    These strangely decorated, brightly-colored buildings in El Alto, Bolivia, are the early examples of a new Bolivian architectural style, started after the election of President Evo Morales Ayma in 2006, when the national pride became more important than ever. Appropriately, they are called cohetillos — "spaceships."

    The key architect behind these so-called cohetillos is Freddy Mamani Silvestre.


    There are more than sixty buildings in the city designed by Silvestre, so he's definitely in the same group with Oscar Niemeyer and Antoni Gaudí, who also changed (or defined) the look of a whole city.

     

    http://io9.com/these-brilliantly-colored-bolivian-buildings-look-like-1687418694

    Sid and Marty Kroft drop a lot of acid and take kids on a hallucinogenic trip through the insides of a slot machine.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Sid and Marty Kroft drop a lot of acid and take kids on a hallucinogenic trip through the insides of a slot machine.
     
    LOL. Kids . . . and a sea monster.
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  57. @MartianObserver
    I really like the exteriors but I'm iffy about the interiors. Still far more interesting than most of the stuff that passes for architecture in the rest of the world.

    The idea of a trying to innovate architecturally as an expression of national pride is promising. The exteriors might get better as the colors fade in the sun over the years. The interiors, though …

    Read More
    • Replies: @Melendwyr
    I hate to get all 'conservative', but innovation isn't necessarily a good thing. I think they'd have been better off sticking with the boring tried-and-true than in constructing those... things.
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  58. Melendwyr says: • Website
    @Steve Sailer
    The idea of a trying to innovate architecturally as an expression of national pride is promising. The exteriors might get better as the colors fade in the sun over the years. The interiors, though ...

    I hate to get all ‘conservative’, but innovation isn’t necessarily a good thing. I think they’d have been better off sticking with the boring tried-and-true than in constructing those… things.

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  59. donut says:
    @syonredux
    Off-topic but interesting

    These strangely decorated, brightly-colored buildings in El Alto, Bolivia, are the early examples of a new Bolivian architectural style, started after the election of President Evo Morales Ayma in 2006, when the national pride became more important than ever. Appropriately, they are called cohetillos — "spaceships."

    The key architect behind these so-called cohetillos is Freddy Mamani Silvestre.


    There are more than sixty buildings in the city designed by Silvestre, so he's definitely in the same group with Oscar Niemeyer and Antoni Gaudí, who also changed (or defined) the look of a whole city.

     

    http://io9.com/these-brilliantly-colored-bolivian-buildings-look-like-1687418694

    What will they look like when the paint starts to peel ?

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    My house.
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  60. @donut
    What will they look like when the paint starts to peel ?

    My house.

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  61. @Steve Sailer
    Sid and Marty Kroft drop a lot of acid and take kids on a hallucinogenic trip through the insides of a slot machine.

    Sid and Marty Kroft drop a lot of acid and take kids on a hallucinogenic trip through the insides of a slot machine.

    LOL. Kids . . . and a sea monster.

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  62. donut says:

    “But I’ve been hearing for 15 years that two individuals of different races are more genetically similar than two individuals of the same race. I’ve read that in comments sections hundreds of times. Could we have been misled?”

    Someone else in the comments said he’d heard the same thing in a sociology class . Here is a link to an interesting article on the issue of how reliable social science studies experiments are :

    http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/07/replication_controversy_in_psychology_bullying_file_drawer_effect_blog_posts.single.html

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  63. rod1963 says:

    People are missing the point, this technology will increasingly point the finger at our favorite violent subsets of people – AA’s, followed by Hispanics.

    Two groups that white liberals go out of their way to make excuses for their criminality. Just look at Hollywood crime shows where every bad guy is a college educated white dude. It doesn’t get more blatant that that. Or the MSM when they fuzz out bad guys being captured by the cops.

    In short this tech makes them look like very bad liars and discredits the narrative they’ve labored for so long on. …

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  64. Ivy says:
    @International Jew
    This is really big, that the Times would print such a piece. And all the more so that the graphic example is of a black man. Charles Blow must be experiencing a serious case of the vapors right now.

    Think of the NYT volte face as preparation for the 2016 election. They may be admitting that the Demo big tent of grievances was doomed to failure, as if the 2014 election results weren’t enough of a loud message.

    So their new tack is to zig back to the center and see how many centrist R’so they can pick up to offset a declining lefty wing, that doesn’t want to give enough money anyway?

    What do you think?

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  65. @SPMoore8
    "Racial profiling" is as old as phrenology (or physiognomy.)

    What people usually mean when they say stupid stuff like "race is a social construct" is because, in America, there are a lot of people at the margins whose race is not so much how they appear but how they are identified or self-identify. That "one drop rule" stuff caused a lot of problems.

    The other way in which the term is used of course is to argue that on a "macro" level there are no such things as "races", and to be tedious, maybe there's something to that POV; I never could warm to the distinction between "Alpines" and "Nordics" or between "dolichocephalics" and "brachyocephalics" as applied to Europeans.

    Biology is destiny for a lot of people, but not for everyone. And you can't always tell at first glance if someone is the one, or the other.

    The other way in which the term is used of course is to argue that on a “macro” level there are no such things as “races”, and to be tedious, maybe there’s something to that POV; I never could warm to the distinction between “Alpines” and “Nordics” or between “dolichocephalics” and “brachyocephalics” as applied to Europeans.

    To me the “macro” level is the broadest racial distinctions, like whites, blacks, yellows – distinctions that it’s mind-boggling anybody would attempt to deny or could pretend not to notice in everyday life. As you go move down the scale from macro to micro racial distinctiveness fades, often to the point that people can quite justifiably claim that distinctions don’t really exist. I find you sometimes have to abruptly magnify race back to the macro in order to jolt such people out of their complacency.

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  66. donut says:

    Oh well you know my hobby horse .

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  67. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    "Profilers (FBI and otherwise) are presently viewed as charlatans."

    Since you're so knowledgeable on the subject please provide a couple of citations in support of your (false) assertion.

    Profiling isn't what folks like you see in movies and television. It's a combination of statistical hypotheses about the offender based on very large databases, e.g., the FBI's VICAP system, combined with the professional expertise of homicide investigators, psychiatrists and others who have hands-on experience with serial murder investigations and serial murderers. Good profiling provides ideas on how to conduct an investigation. It may give patrol officers ideas of types of suspicious behavior to look for and investigate when ordinarily they might not. It can help prosecutors plan trial strategies to convict an offender. Examples of each of these are provided by the Yorkshire Ripper investigation, the investigation and trial of Wayne Williams, and the capture and conviction of the Dennis Rader, the BTK killer. These cases would probably never have been solved without the input of profilers.

    About a a quarter century ago I did research on serial murder and other similar types of homicide stretching over a decade until I burned out. During this time I did some consulting work for the FBI's BSU. I know whereof I speak.

    I'd like to add that those who studied serial homicides even before I temporarily got into the field were well aware that Negroes were over-represented among serial killers. As an example, based purely on statistical patterns, if elderly white women were being burglarized, raped, and savagely killed by an ineperienced perpetrator, past similar crimes suggested that the perpetrator quite possibly might be a teenage or slightly older Negro male, well-known to the victims and in the neighborhood. Often these young males would have a reputation of being especially well-behaved, soft-spoken etc. This was always presented as a possibility to be looked into, not a firm conclusion. On more than several occasions it led the police to a perpetrator whom otherwise it was likely they would have overlooked.

    I will defer to donut’s response as “evidence”. I just don’t have the motivation to deeply delve into researching the issue.

    It’s interesting that you mention BTK as an example of where profilers’ insights were crucial to a case’s eventual solving. In the little cursory google searching I did perform, I came across a 2007 profiler takedown piece by Malcolm Gladwell (I know, I know). The article articulates FBI profilers’ “contributions” to the BTK investigation. Their work seemingly boils down to six hours of plying the techniques long used by astrologers and psychics: vague, ambiguous, and contradictory language that can support numerous conclusions.

    Since we on this blog are presumably all literate regarding the particulars of IQ distributions, one of their predictions is especially funny: that the suspect’s IQ was somewhere between 105 and 145! That’s obviously a laughably wide net, but if you’re going to make a probabilistic guess, why not up your odds and decrease the nominal range of your guess by going with 95-115?

    Rader in actuality, according to Wikipedia, was identified by police thusly:

    In his letters to police, Rader asked if his writings, if put on a floppy disk, could be traced or not. The police answered his question in a newspaper ad [...] saying it would be safe to use the disk. [In February 2005 Rader mailed a floppy disk to a local news station on which police] found metadata embedded in a deleted Microsoft Word document that was, unbeknownst to Rader, on the floppy disk. The metadata contained “Christ Lutheran Church”, and the document was marked as last modified by “Dennis”. An internet search determined that a “Dennis Rader” was president of the church council.

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    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    Rader started communicating with the police as the result of police activities suggested by a profiler. News items were put out that the profiler suggested would entice BTK into making a potentially incriminating response. The rest is as reported in Wikipedia.

    As for the rest, see my reply to donut.
    , @donut
    Yes, I read that too . It certainly doesn't support the high IQ profile.
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  68. Harold says:
    @candid_observer
    What's sort of amusing is that it seems like just about the only thing these DNA markers really predict at this point is race and gender. Eye color and skin color and hair curliness too, they say, but I don't think that knowing the race of someone who's mostly SubSaharan African is going to make any of those characteristics hard to predict.

    So, basically, it sounds like if it finds a black male was the perpetrator, with the standard amount of admixture for most blacks in the US, it will just produce a generic black male face.

    It seems we can do a bit better than that. Here is a New Scientist article on predicting face shape. It includes a comparison between a predictied face and the real face of a New Scientist reporter.

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22129613.600-genetic-mugshot-recreates-faces-from-nothing-but-dna.html

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  69. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    No, Steve. Richard Lewontin’s carefully crafted piece of deliberately deceitful sophistry was a tad more sophisticated than that. As I recall, it was something to do with there being ‘more diversity between any two ‘members of an ethnicity’ than there is ‘between two different ethnicities’.
    I have no doubt that in the way Lewontin framed it is is technically correct. But as I said it is deliberately crafted sophistry intended to fool the gullible, it might sound like it is meaningful and explains away the ‘nonsense of race’, but on closer examination its really a pretty useless and meaningless observation.

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    • Replies: @Numinous
    As I recall, it was something to do with there being ‘more diversity between any two ‘members of an ethnicity’ than there is ‘between two different ethnicities’.

    This could be construed as the following: members of a given ethnicity have certain characteristics such as skin color, eye color, hair color, facial features, build, etc. in common but vary greatly (i.e., on a bell curve) in their cognitive and behavioral attributes. Whether there is variation within an ethnicity or across ethnicities depends on the particular feature you are exploring.
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  70. David M. says:
    @unit472
    Got news for the NYU law professor, Erin Murphy. Technology is always ahead of the 'popular debate and discussion'. I recall a NOVA program from a couple of years back that showed the state of the art on 'lie detection'. It is way beyond polygraph machines. The real problem in the decades ahead is what are we going to do with all of our law enforcement personnel as crime detection and identification become just a matter of downloading video, traffic and other data bases. When your car will convict you of traffic violations. When every financial transaction you make is available from your bank. Only the cleverest, most hi-tech criminals will stand a chance. The hoodrat's are going to be put out of business.

    As you say, perhaps only the most high-tech criminals will have a decent chance of success, but what makes this really scary is that some hoodrats will still decide to make a go of it anyhow. Combine a cashless economy with a higher likelihood of getting caught, and criminals will resort to higher payoff, more violent methods. Home invasions for one thing, but also something along the lines of – “I am going to hold this gun against your spouse’s head while you go into the diamond store and empty out your bank account buying me some diamonds.” So crime may become comparatively more rare, but on balance much worse.

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  71. Numinous says:
    @Anonymous
    No, Steve. Richard Lewontin's carefully crafted piece of deliberately deceitful sophistry was a tad more sophisticated than that. As I recall, it was something to do with there being 'more diversity between any two 'members of an ethnicity' than there is 'between two different ethnicities'.
    I have no doubt that in the way Lewontin framed it is is technically correct. But as I said it is deliberately crafted sophistry intended to fool the gullible, it might sound like it is meaningful and explains away the 'nonsense of race', but on closer examination its really a pretty useless and meaningless observation.

    As I recall, it was something to do with there being ‘more diversity between any two ‘members of an ethnicity’ than there is ‘between two different ethnicities’.

    This could be construed as the following: members of a given ethnicity have certain characteristics such as skin color, eye color, hair color, facial features, build, etc. in common but vary greatly (i.e., on a bell curve) in their cognitive and behavioral attributes. Whether there is variation within an ethnicity or across ethnicities depends on the particular feature you are exploring.

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  72. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    "Profilers (FBI and otherwise) are presently viewed as charlatans."

    Since you're so knowledgeable on the subject please provide a couple of citations in support of your (false) assertion.

    Profiling isn't what folks like you see in movies and television. It's a combination of statistical hypotheses about the offender based on very large databases, e.g., the FBI's VICAP system, combined with the professional expertise of homicide investigators, psychiatrists and others who have hands-on experience with serial murder investigations and serial murderers. Good profiling provides ideas on how to conduct an investigation. It may give patrol officers ideas of types of suspicious behavior to look for and investigate when ordinarily they might not. It can help prosecutors plan trial strategies to convict an offender. Examples of each of these are provided by the Yorkshire Ripper investigation, the investigation and trial of Wayne Williams, and the capture and conviction of the Dennis Rader, the BTK killer. These cases would probably never have been solved without the input of profilers.

    About a a quarter century ago I did research on serial murder and other similar types of homicide stretching over a decade until I burned out. During this time I did some consulting work for the FBI's BSU. I know whereof I speak.

    I'd like to add that those who studied serial homicides even before I temporarily got into the field were well aware that Negroes were over-represented among serial killers. As an example, based purely on statistical patterns, if elderly white women were being burglarized, raped, and savagely killed by an ineperienced perpetrator, past similar crimes suggested that the perpetrator quite possibly might be a teenage or slightly older Negro male, well-known to the victims and in the neighborhood. Often these young males would have a reputation of being especially well-behaved, soft-spoken etc. This was always presented as a possibility to be looked into, not a firm conclusion. On more than several occasions it led the police to a perpetrator whom otherwise it was likely they would have overlooked.

    if elderly white women were being burglarized, raped, and savagely killed by an ineperienced perpetrator, past similar crimes suggested that the perpetrator quite possibly might be a teenage or slightly older Negro male, well-known to the victims and in the neighborhood. Often these young males would have a reputation of being especially well-behaved, soft-spoken etc.

    That’s actually how many of these things work out. ‘Him? But he was always so polite, I can’t believe it’ Sometimes charm is not charm but just a tool.

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    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Sometimes charm is not charm but just a tool.

    Form Gavin DeBecker’s The Gift of Fear: "Think of charm as a verb, not a trait… [It] is almost always a directed instrument, which, like rapport building, has motive. To charm is to compel, to control by allure or attraction. If you tell yourself “this person is trying to charm me”, as opposed to “this person is charming,” you’ll be able to see around it. Most often, when you see what’s behind charm, it won’t be sinister, but other times you’ll be glad you looked."
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  73. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Gender has long been ascertained from crime scene DNA.

    This is hate speech. How could something so fluid and subjective as the way a person identifies his/her/hen gender be “ascertained from crime scene DNA”?

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  74. Priss Factor [AKA "K. Arujo"] says:

    Race is a Sexual Product.

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  75. Truth says:
    @ben tillman

    The ‘serial killers are white men’ stereotype died a decade or two ago. Too many black serial killers discovered– just off the top of my head: LA (John Floyd Thomas, Jr.), Cleveland (Anthony Sowell), Gary, IN (Darren Vann), DC snipers. If If my recollection of the zeitgeist is correct, DC Sniper case might be viewed as the turning point.
     
    Wasn't Wayne Williams in Atlanta the most prolific of them all?

    Wasn’t Wayne Williams in Atlanta the most prolific of them all?

    Six or seven years ago in the Steve-O-Sphere we were going with the “blacks don’t serial kill because it takes great intellect” meme.

    Now that it has been proven that there are black serial killers, have we collectively abandoned this?

    Let me know, it’s hard to keep up here sometimes.

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    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    "Six or seven years ago in the Steve-O-Sphere we were going with the “blacks don’t serial kill because it takes great intellect” meme.

    Now that it has been proven that there are black serial killers, have we collectively abandoned this?

    Let me know, it’s hard to keep up here sometimes."

    It's cool if you want to disagree with the CW here. Or even if you are doing "opposition research" and at times the iniquity of it all makes your righteous blood boil.

    I don't believe some of the stuff I've seen posted, though I tend to reserve judgement because I don't think I know enough or have experience with the point in question. Other stuff I ignore because I think it is stupid, or I don't care about at all.

    But I'd like to address something, I guess a modern meme or something. Namely that serial killers are all some kind of geniuses. I blame movies, with their jaundiced view of reality, and the need to make the "plot more interesting."

    A fellow above posted this snippet about the BTK killer (Bind-Torture-Kill, at least I think that is the one referenced):

    "In his letters to police, Rader asked if his writings, if put on a floppy disk, could be traced or not. The police answered his question in a newspaper ad [...] saying it would be safe to use the disk. [In February 2005 Rader mailed a floppy disk to a local news station on which police] found metadata embedded in a deleted Microsoft Word document that was, unbeknownst to Rader, on the floppy disk. The metadata contained “Christ Lutheran Church”, and the document was marked as last modified by “Dennis”. An internet search determined that a “Dennis Rader” was president of the church council."

    He was supposed to be pretty smart. But that comes across as freaking dumb. Assuming, of course, that he didn't want to be captured. (At some point I guess you need to come "out" so your works can be properly "admired." There is a ham in even the worst of us.)

    Look these guys aren't uniformly a bunch of Hannibal Lecters or Dexters or whoever Hollywood is putting out in these movies and TV shows.

    They are serial killers because they kill people. A lot.

    People get killed all the time. It's not uncommon to find a dead prostitute in any major metro area. Sometimes they OD. Sometimes they are killed by a pimp.

    Very occasionally they get whacked by a serial killer.

    Now obviously it's not just prostitutes, but you first have to have a string of killings, and someone has to connect the dots unless there is some obvious MO like all of them are missing left thumbs or something (then you have to wonder about a gang).

    Then you have the reality of actual law enforcement. The crap you see on TV? CSI this, Law and Order that? No police department has the resources or equipment to investigate crimes the way you see on these shows. Even if they have the equipment they are investigating 10 cases at once, and not going in depth reconstructing corpses or doing crap with maggots. The next stiff is on the table, and you gotta process him too, ya know?

    The only time you would ever see anything like this, is if the case got a lot of publicity.

    Something that a serial killer who didn't crave notoriety would never generate in the first place.

    I'll let the psychology of serial killers to someone else to enumerate if they think they know enough about it.

    But if you were just going about the business of killing people, and you decided to do it without drawing attention to yourself, like randomly throwing a dart at a board and killing someone randomly where it hit, you would be hard to detect. Assuming you didn't leave your "trademark" at the scene.

    Kind of makes you wonder how many might be out there, and have always been there. Probably a lot harder to pull off in the present day with all these surveillance cameras. And you weren't using credit cards anywhere right? Strictly Cash? Law and Order loves them some credit card receipts. Funny how it always lines up for them.

    Anyway my point is, these guys generally aren't geniuses. Someone finally shines a light on them, and the inevitable mistakes they made along the way finally come to life.

    Or they decide it's time to take the company public. And face it, when you've accomplished all you can one way, our media will be entirely complicit in letting you bask in the limelight a while.

    Plus you can get continuing cameo roles like Charles Manson.
    , @syonredux

    Six or seven years ago in the Steve-O-Sphere we were going with the “blacks don’t serial kill because it takes great intellect” meme.
     
    Who actually thinks that it takes "great intellect" to be a serial killer? People whose knowledge of the subject is limited to an intensive study of the career of Hannibal Lecter , perhaps?
    , @HA
    "Six or seven years ago in the Steve-O-Sphere we were going with the “blacks don’t serial kill because it takes great intellect” meme. Now that it has been proven that there are black serial killers, have we collectively abandoned this?"

    I'm not an advocate of any particular viewpoint regarding blacks and serial murder, but I believe the meme in question, when stated honestly and without the usual sloppy shorthand, was that blacks are statistically less likely to be serial killers because of the premeditation and planning involved, not that they never are. Again, I'm not saying I agree with that claim, or that it is not racist, but at least I had enough reading comprehension to be able to parse it.

    Maybe you're just too dumb to be able to distinguish statistical unlikelihood and impossibility, or maybe you can't argue a point honestly and therefore go after a more extreme straw man version, but either way, you're not doing yourself any favors.

    , @The most deplorable one

    Six or seven years ago in the Steve-O-Sphere we were going with the “blacks don’t serial kill because it takes great intellect” meme.
     
    I don't think that was ever the case. Do you have some support for that assertion?

    Maybe you have been watching Copycat too much.
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  76. Sunbeam says:
    @Truth

    Wasn’t Wayne Williams in Atlanta the most prolific of them all?
     
    Six or seven years ago in the Steve-O-Sphere we were going with the "blacks don't serial kill because it takes great intellect" meme.

    Now that it has been proven that there are black serial killers, have we collectively abandoned this?

    Let me know, it's hard to keep up here sometimes.

    “Six or seven years ago in the Steve-O-Sphere we were going with the “blacks don’t serial kill because it takes great intellect” meme.

    Now that it has been proven that there are black serial killers, have we collectively abandoned this?

    Let me know, it’s hard to keep up here sometimes.”

    It’s cool if you want to disagree with the CW here. Or even if you are doing “opposition research” and at times the iniquity of it all makes your righteous blood boil.

    I don’t believe some of the stuff I’ve seen posted, though I tend to reserve judgement because I don’t think I know enough or have experience with the point in question. Other stuff I ignore because I think it is stupid, or I don’t care about at all.

    But I’d like to address something, I guess a modern meme or something. Namely that serial killers are all some kind of geniuses. I blame movies, with their jaundiced view of reality, and the need to make the “plot more interesting.”

    A fellow above posted this snippet about the BTK killer (Bind-Torture-Kill, at least I think that is the one referenced):

    “In his letters to police, Rader asked if his writings, if put on a floppy disk, could be traced or not. The police answered his question in a newspaper ad [...] saying it would be safe to use the disk. [In February 2005 Rader mailed a floppy disk to a local news station on which police] found metadata embedded in a deleted Microsoft Word document that was, unbeknownst to Rader, on the floppy disk. The metadata contained “Christ Lutheran Church”, and the document was marked as last modified by “Dennis”. An internet search determined that a “Dennis Rader” was president of the church council.”

    He was supposed to be pretty smart. But that comes across as freaking dumb. Assuming, of course, that he didn’t want to be captured. (At some point I guess you need to come “out” so your works can be properly “admired.” There is a ham in even the worst of us.)

    Look these guys aren’t uniformly a bunch of Hannibal Lecters or Dexters or whoever Hollywood is putting out in these movies and TV shows.

    They are serial killers because they kill people. A lot.

    People get killed all the time. It’s not uncommon to find a dead prostitute in any major metro area. Sometimes they OD. Sometimes they are killed by a pimp.

    Very occasionally they get whacked by a serial killer.

    Now obviously it’s not just prostitutes, but you first have to have a string of killings, and someone has to connect the dots unless there is some obvious MO like all of them are missing left thumbs or something (then you have to wonder about a gang).

    Then you have the reality of actual law enforcement. The crap you see on TV? CSI this, Law and Order that? No police department has the resources or equipment to investigate crimes the way you see on these shows. Even if they have the equipment they are investigating 10 cases at once, and not going in depth reconstructing corpses or doing crap with maggots. The next stiff is on the table, and you gotta process him too, ya know?

    The only time you would ever see anything like this, is if the case got a lot of publicity.

    Something that a serial killer who didn’t crave notoriety would never generate in the first place.

    I’ll let the psychology of serial killers to someone else to enumerate if they think they know enough about it.

    But if you were just going about the business of killing people, and you decided to do it without drawing attention to yourself, like randomly throwing a dart at a board and killing someone randomly where it hit, you would be hard to detect. Assuming you didn’t leave your “trademark” at the scene.

    Kind of makes you wonder how many might be out there, and have always been there. Probably a lot harder to pull off in the present day with all these surveillance cameras. And you weren’t using credit cards anywhere right? Strictly Cash? Law and Order loves them some credit card receipts. Funny how it always lines up for them.

    Anyway my point is, these guys generally aren’t geniuses. Someone finally shines a light on them, and the inevitable mistakes they made along the way finally come to life.

    Or they decide it’s time to take the company public. And face it, when you’ve accomplished all you can one way, our media will be entirely complicit in letting you bask in the limelight a while.

    Plus you can get continuing cameo roles like Charles Manson.

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  77. syonredux says: • Website
    @Truth

    Wasn’t Wayne Williams in Atlanta the most prolific of them all?
     
    Six or seven years ago in the Steve-O-Sphere we were going with the "blacks don't serial kill because it takes great intellect" meme.

    Now that it has been proven that there are black serial killers, have we collectively abandoned this?

    Let me know, it's hard to keep up here sometimes.

    Six or seven years ago in the Steve-O-Sphere we were going with the “blacks don’t serial kill because it takes great intellect” meme.

    Who actually thinks that it takes “great intellect” to be a serial killer? People whose knowledge of the subject is limited to an intensive study of the career of Hannibal Lecter , perhaps?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    Not to "be" a serial killer, but to escape prosecution, so one can continue killing.
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  78. CK says:
    @countenance
    “This is another of these areas where the technology is ahead of the popular debate and discussion,” said Erin Murphy, a professor of law at New York University.

    Actually, it's more like this is one of the rare instances when real science and technology was able to climb out of the bucket before the egalitarian race denying crabs pulled it back down.

    Any area of scientific or artistic or technological advance will always be “ahead of the debate among the scientific ignorati.”

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  79. @iSteveFan
    My guess is if they ever capture the suspect, and he differs by an iota from the photo in the DNA-generated profile, they will feel vindicated in maintaining their current views even if the suspect is indeed black. They will point out how the guy looks nothing like the predicted image, and that it was merely the fact that since the crime took place in South Carolina, there was a greater probability for a black suspect given local demographics.

    I’m no expert here, but I suspect that all they did to come up with that image is to construct the “average” face of a west African male. In other words, they didn’t use any genes/alleles to inform the shape of the cheeks, nose, chin etc…

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  80. CK says:
    @awesome
    Look, this technology will lead to more racial profiling. Just because the DNA proves that the suspect was black, doesn't mean that a whole lot of innocent black people won't unfairly be targeted as police question suspects. And of course because the DNA proves that the suspect is black, now there will be no innocent white people who are incorrectly targeted by police either. So once again only innocent blacks will be unfairly targeted. Clearly the only just thing the police can do is make sure that for every innocent black that is unfairly questioned in association with a crime they didn't commit, 2 innocent white people are also brought in for questioning.

    So, for any specific crime, the pool of potentially innocent people is expanded by each forward step in forensic technology. Likewise, the pool of potentially guilty people shrinks. Each step forward guarantees that fewer and fewer innocents will be bothered. The end result is that discovered DNA is a confession of guilt by the guilty and no innocents will be profiled or bothered. Clearly the only just thing to do is to continue improving the technology to that point where if YOU do the crime; You will do the time.

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  81. @anonymous

    if elderly white women were being burglarized, raped, and savagely killed by an ineperienced perpetrator, past similar crimes suggested that the perpetrator quite possibly might be a teenage or slightly older Negro male, well-known to the victims and in the neighborhood. Often these young males would have a reputation of being especially well-behaved, soft-spoken etc.
     
    That's actually how many of these things work out. 'Him? But he was always so polite, I can't believe it' Sometimes charm is not charm but just a tool.

    Sometimes charm is not charm but just a tool.

    Form Gavin DeBecker’s The Gift of Fear: “Think of charm as a verb, not a trait… [It] is almost always a directed instrument, which, like rapport building, has motive. To charm is to compel, to control by allure or attraction. If you tell yourself “this person is trying to charm me”, as opposed to “this person is charming,” you’ll be able to see around it. Most often, when you see what’s behind charm, it won’t be sinister, but other times you’ll be glad you looked.”

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  82. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    "Profilers (FBI and otherwise) are presently viewed as charlatans."

    Since you're so knowledgeable on the subject please provide a couple of citations in support of your (false) assertion.

    Profiling isn't what folks like you see in movies and television. It's a combination of statistical hypotheses about the offender based on very large databases, e.g., the FBI's VICAP system, combined with the professional expertise of homicide investigators, psychiatrists and others who have hands-on experience with serial murder investigations and serial murderers. Good profiling provides ideas on how to conduct an investigation. It may give patrol officers ideas of types of suspicious behavior to look for and investigate when ordinarily they might not. It can help prosecutors plan trial strategies to convict an offender. Examples of each of these are provided by the Yorkshire Ripper investigation, the investigation and trial of Wayne Williams, and the capture and conviction of the Dennis Rader, the BTK killer. These cases would probably never have been solved without the input of profilers.

    About a a quarter century ago I did research on serial murder and other similar types of homicide stretching over a decade until I burned out. During this time I did some consulting work for the FBI's BSU. I know whereof I speak.

    I'd like to add that those who studied serial homicides even before I temporarily got into the field were well aware that Negroes were over-represented among serial killers. As an example, based purely on statistical patterns, if elderly white women were being burglarized, raped, and savagely killed by an ineperienced perpetrator, past similar crimes suggested that the perpetrator quite possibly might be a teenage or slightly older Negro male, well-known to the victims and in the neighborhood. Often these young males would have a reputation of being especially well-behaved, soft-spoken etc. This was always presented as a possibility to be looked into, not a firm conclusion. On more than several occasions it led the police to a perpetrator whom otherwise it was likely they would have overlooked.

    But do you know why they had that reputation before such a brutal crime?? Do you know what your profiling had discovered?

    A negro metamorph! Humans undergo puberty, but not metamorphosis. We retain juvenile neotenic behaviors our entire lives. Negroes, however, undergo metamorphosis shortly after puberty. This is why seemingly wonderful children suddenly become dangerous animals. It’s no mystery, once you understand the biology at work. Negroes are at their most dangerous during metamorphosis.

    The same thing can be seen in the Axolotl versus the Tiger Salamander.

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  83. @donut
    I don't know one way or the other but here is one critique of profilers :

    http://www.information-international.com/info/index.php/the-monthly/articles/728-criminal-profilers

    There are plenty of others.

    On the other hand George Metesky was wearing a double breasted suit when arrested .

    From the cite: “Reality: Criminal Profilers’ Predictions are not always Reliable and Useful Investigative Tools”

    Hardly anything in the social sciences is “always reliable and useful”. The studies cited suggest problems with profiling when too much reliance is put on the method, not that it is useless.

    Meteskey was a special case. Most of the analysis was a linguistic analysis of a good number of letters written by the bomber. The double-breasted suit was a gamble – based on much more firm inferences – that wound up paying off.

    Modern profiling did not begin with this case and in fact didn’t start until decades later.

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    • Replies: @donut
    I read somewhere about a law concerning how long it takes for 50% of what's accepted in any field of science to proven to be wrong . In psychology the period of time was 5 years as opposed to decades or more for fields like physics , biology , and math .

    The Mad Bomber seems more like Sherlock Holmes than profiling .
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  84. @anon
    I will defer to donut's response as "evidence". I just don't have the motivation to deeply delve into researching the issue.


    It's interesting that you mention BTK as an example of where profilers' insights were crucial to a case's eventual solving. In the little cursory google searching I did perform, I came across a 2007 profiler takedown piece by Malcolm Gladwell (I know, I know). The article articulates FBI profilers' "contributions" to the BTK investigation. Their work seemingly boils down to six hours of plying the techniques long used by astrologers and psychics: vague, ambiguous, and contradictory language that can support numerous conclusions.

    Since we on this blog are presumably all literate regarding the particulars of IQ distributions, one of their predictions is especially funny: that the suspect's IQ was somewhere between 105 and 145! That's obviously a laughably wide net, but if you're going to make a probabilistic guess, why not up your odds and decrease the nominal range of your guess by going with 95-115?

    Rader in actuality, according to Wikipedia, was identified by police thusly:

    In his letters to police, Rader asked if his writings, if put on a floppy disk, could be traced or not. The police answered his question in a newspaper ad [...] saying it would be safe to use the disk. [In February 2005 Rader mailed a floppy disk to a local news station on which police] found metadata embedded in a deleted Microsoft Word document that was, unbeknownst to Rader, on the floppy disk. The metadata contained "Christ Lutheran Church", and the document was marked as last modified by "Dennis". An internet search determined that a "Dennis Rader" was president of the church council.
     

    Rader started communicating with the police as the result of police activities suggested by a profiler. News items were put out that the profiler suggested would entice BTK into making a potentially incriminating response. The rest is as reported in Wikipedia.

    As for the rest, see my reply to donut.

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  85. Truth says:
    @syonredux

    Six or seven years ago in the Steve-O-Sphere we were going with the “blacks don’t serial kill because it takes great intellect” meme.
     
    Who actually thinks that it takes "great intellect" to be a serial killer? People whose knowledge of the subject is limited to an intensive study of the career of Hannibal Lecter , perhaps?

    Not to “be” a serial killer, but to escape prosecution, so one can continue killing.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Not to “be” a serial killer, but to escape prosecution, so one can continue killing.
     
    The best way to escape detection as a serial killer is to kill people that you don't know personally.That doesn't take much intellect.So, I would say that a guy with an 85 IQ could handle the job fairly well.
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  86. AshTon says:

    Apple have announced new diverse emoticons, with several skin colors and same-sex couples – http://www.macrumors.com/2015/02/23/10-10-3-new-emoji/

    Strangely, the facial structure is the same across all colors. It would wrong to notice that these differ between races. No transgender, transitioning, polyamorous, disabled, or ginger-haired emoji. Not yet.

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  87. HA says:
    @Truth

    Wasn’t Wayne Williams in Atlanta the most prolific of them all?
     
    Six or seven years ago in the Steve-O-Sphere we were going with the "blacks don't serial kill because it takes great intellect" meme.

    Now that it has been proven that there are black serial killers, have we collectively abandoned this?

    Let me know, it's hard to keep up here sometimes.

    “Six or seven years ago in the Steve-O-Sphere we were going with the “blacks don’t serial kill because it takes great intellect” meme. Now that it has been proven that there are black serial killers, have we collectively abandoned this?”

    I’m not an advocate of any particular viewpoint regarding blacks and serial murder, but I believe the meme in question, when stated honestly and without the usual sloppy shorthand, was that blacks are statistically less likely to be serial killers because of the premeditation and planning involved, not that they never are. Again, I’m not saying I agree with that claim, or that it is not racist, but at least I had enough reading comprehension to be able to parse it.

    Maybe you’re just too dumb to be able to distinguish statistical unlikelihood and impossibility, or maybe you can’t argue a point honestly and therefore go after a more extreme straw man version, but either way, you’re not doing yourself any favors.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    when stated honestly and without the usual sloppy shorthand, was that blacks are statistically less likely to be serial killers because of the premeditation and planning involved,
     
    "Wilkey" in post #90 has the opposite point of view. So which is it, does continuous murder over a long point of time, in which there are no witnesses and no evidence that would lead the police back to you, imply intellect, or doesn't it? Or did it imply intellect when it was thought to be white people overrepresented, and somehow magically lose that implication, not that (it is said by some here) that black people are overrepresented?
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  88. donut says:
    @anon
    I will defer to donut's response as "evidence". I just don't have the motivation to deeply delve into researching the issue.


    It's interesting that you mention BTK as an example of where profilers' insights were crucial to a case's eventual solving. In the little cursory google searching I did perform, I came across a 2007 profiler takedown piece by Malcolm Gladwell (I know, I know). The article articulates FBI profilers' "contributions" to the BTK investigation. Their work seemingly boils down to six hours of plying the techniques long used by astrologers and psychics: vague, ambiguous, and contradictory language that can support numerous conclusions.

    Since we on this blog are presumably all literate regarding the particulars of IQ distributions, one of their predictions is especially funny: that the suspect's IQ was somewhere between 105 and 145! That's obviously a laughably wide net, but if you're going to make a probabilistic guess, why not up your odds and decrease the nominal range of your guess by going with 95-115?

    Rader in actuality, according to Wikipedia, was identified by police thusly:

    In his letters to police, Rader asked if his writings, if put on a floppy disk, could be traced or not. The police answered his question in a newspaper ad [...] saying it would be safe to use the disk. [In February 2005 Rader mailed a floppy disk to a local news station on which police] found metadata embedded in a deleted Microsoft Word document that was, unbeknownst to Rader, on the floppy disk. The metadata contained "Christ Lutheran Church", and the document was marked as last modified by "Dennis". An internet search determined that a "Dennis Rader" was president of the church council.
     

    Yes, I read that too . It certainly doesn’t support the high IQ profile.

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  89. Wilkey says:

    To be a serial killer you have to commit a series of murders and get away with them all, at least for a while. That requires some degree of intelligence, and it explains why whites are a larger share of serial killers than of murderers overall.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    To be a serial killer you have to commit a series of murders and get away with them all, at least for a while. That requires some degree of intelligence, and it explains why whites are a larger share of serial killers than of murderers overall.
     
    Blacks are disproportionately represented among serial killers:

    There is no doubt that White males have constituted the majority
    of multiple murderers in the United States since such records
    have been kept, but that should be no surprise, because White
    males have constituted the vast majority of males across that time
    period. However, according to some prominent serial-killer
    researchers, between 13% and 16% of identified American serial
    killers operating in the 20th century (a period in which African
    Americans constituted between 8% and 12.8% of the population)
    have been African American (Jenkins, 1998; Newton, 1992). A
    study of 337 serial killers operating since 1825 found that 22%
    were African American (Hickey, 1997), and a study that included
    mass and spree murderers with serial killers put the figure at 20%
    (Levin & Fox, 1985). More recent data for the years 1976 through
    1998 found African American representation among murderers
    with multiple victims (serial, mass, and spree combined) to have
    increased to 38.2% of all such offenders (Fox & Levin, 2001). African
    Americans are thus overrepresented among killers having
    multiple victims by about 3 times relative to their proportion of
    the population.
     
    http://www.sagepub.com/gabbidonstudy/articles/Walsh.pdf
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  90. @awesome
    Look, this technology will lead to more racial profiling. Just because the DNA proves that the suspect was black, doesn't mean that a whole lot of innocent black people won't unfairly be targeted as police question suspects. And of course because the DNA proves that the suspect is black, now there will be no innocent white people who are incorrectly targeted by police either. So once again only innocent blacks will be unfairly targeted. Clearly the only just thing the police can do is make sure that for every innocent black that is unfairly questioned in association with a crime they didn't commit, 2 innocent white people are also brought in for questioning.

    “And of course because the DNA proves that the suspect is black, now there will be no innocent white people who are incorrectly targeted by police either. “

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delroy_Easton_Grant#DNA_controversy

    Delroy Grant raped elderly white women in their South London homes between 1992 and 2009. The good news is the police didn’t consider these to be ‘hate crimes’.

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  91. Big Bill says:
    @Jefferson
    "Race Is Just a Social Construct, Except ..."

    It is and it isn't at the same time. After all you have pasty pale blue eyed Elizabeth Warren claiming to be an Amerindian, not even a Mestiza but a straight up Amerindian she claims she is. Meanwhile there are Mexicans who are Browner than her that do not self identify as Amerindian. I bet Julian Castro does not self identify himself as an Amerindian even though he would have more of a legit claim to it than Elizabeth Warren.

    I keep reading these neocon accounts of Elizabeth Warren and her getting money and stuff for claiming Indian ancestors (but not, apparently tribal membership). Could you point me to a source–not another neocon talking head, but an actual statement by Warren? You know, like “I am a straight-up Amerindian”?

    Every time I go look I get lost in a neocon echo chamber: ” everybody knows!” but no one can give me a link. It’s like “global warming” for neocons and ditto-heads: everyone yammers about it, but no one can point to any solid evidence.

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    • Replies: @Brutusale
    The WaPo isn't exactly unbiased, but surely not in the neocon direction. A fairly good exposition of Fauxcahontas' "minority" status.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-controversy-over-elizabeth-warrens-claimed-native-american-heritage/2012/09/27/d0b7f568-08a5-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_blog.html
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  92. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Two individuals, black and white, with same height, same weight, same testosterone level and same iq, are more genetically “similar” one each other than a White individual with different traits. The best lies are half truths.

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  93. Big Bill says:
    @duderino
    I "learned" that the DNA of a black man could have more in common with me than an unrelated white man in freshman sociology. Therefore race isn't real! My first thought was, well, even if that's true, wouldn't a scatter plot of DNA measurements broken down by trait show that in aggregate the races were typically much different?

    I think its probably true that I could have a black doppleganger somewhere. I just suspect there's infinitely more white dopplegangers.

    A prosaic illustration of Lewontin’s fallacy:

    Women range in height between about 3 feet tall and 7 feet tall, for an “in-group” range of about 4 feet. Men range between 4 feet and 8 feet, again, for a range of about 4 feet.

    The difference of AVERAGE height between men and women is about 6 inches.

    Since the AVERAGE difference between men and women (6 inches) is much less than the range of heights within the male and female populations (4 feet), it makes no logical sense to say that “men are taller than women”.

    [And hence it must be sexism that keeps women out of the NBA. ;)]

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  94. syonredux says: • Website
    @Truth
    Not to "be" a serial killer, but to escape prosecution, so one can continue killing.

    Not to “be” a serial killer, but to escape prosecution, so one can continue killing.

    The best way to escape detection as a serial killer is to kill people that you don’t know personally.That doesn’t take much intellect.So, I would say that a guy with an 85 IQ could handle the job fairly well.

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    • Replies: @AnAnon
    it also helps when the prosecutor is afraid of being called a racist and the media is looking for a "white man in a white van".
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  95. syonredux says: • Website
    @Wilkey
    To be a serial killer you have to commit a series of murders and get away with them all, at least for a while. That requires some degree of intelligence, and it explains why whites are a larger share of serial killers than of murderers overall.

    To be a serial killer you have to commit a series of murders and get away with them all, at least for a while. That requires some degree of intelligence, and it explains why whites are a larger share of serial killers than of murderers overall.

    Blacks are disproportionately represented among serial killers:

    There is no doubt that White males have constituted the majority
    of multiple murderers in the United States since such records
    have been kept, but that should be no surprise, because White
    males have constituted the vast majority of males across that time
    period. However, according to some prominent serial-killer
    researchers, between 13% and 16% of identified American serial
    killers operating in the 20th century (a period in which African
    Americans constituted between 8% and 12.8% of the population)
    have been African American (Jenkins, 1998; Newton, 1992). A
    study of 337 serial killers operating since 1825 found that 22%
    were African American (Hickey, 1997), and a study that included
    mass and spree murderers with serial killers put the figure at 20%
    (Levin & Fox, 1985). More recent data for the years 1976 through
    1998 found African American representation among murderers
    with multiple victims (serial, mass, and spree combined) to have
    increased to 38.2% of all such offenders (Fox & Levin, 2001). African
    Americans are thus overrepresented among killers having
    multiple victims by about 3 times relative to their proportion of
    the population.

    http://www.sagepub.com/gabbidonstudy/articles/Walsh.pdf

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    • Replies: @Wilkey
    "Blacks are disproportionately represented among serial killers"

    Yes, but to a lesser degree than they are among murderers overall.
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  96. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Truth

    Wasn’t Wayne Williams in Atlanta the most prolific of them all?
     
    Six or seven years ago in the Steve-O-Sphere we were going with the "blacks don't serial kill because it takes great intellect" meme.

    Now that it has been proven that there are black serial killers, have we collectively abandoned this?

    Let me know, it's hard to keep up here sometimes.

    Six or seven years ago in the Steve-O-Sphere we were going with the “blacks don’t serial kill because it takes great intellect” meme.

    I don’t think that was ever the case. Do you have some support for that assertion?

    Maybe you have been watching Copycat too much.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    I don’t think that was ever the case. Do you have some support for that assertion?
     
    Why yes I do, Sir. There is not even a need to do research, the posts on this thread corresponding to my original question seem to suffice. And the literary gymnastics are, I would say, quite impressive: Case in point;


    “Blacks are disproportionately represented among serial killers”

    Yes, but to a lesser degree than they are among murderers overall.

     

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  97. donut says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    From the cite: "Reality: Criminal Profilers’ Predictions are not always Reliable and Useful Investigative Tools"

    Hardly anything in the social sciences is "always reliable and useful". The studies cited suggest problems with profiling when too much reliance is put on the method, not that it is useless.

    Meteskey was a special case. Most of the analysis was a linguistic analysis of a good number of letters written by the bomber. The double-breasted suit was a gamble - based on much more firm inferences - that wound up paying off.

    Modern profiling did not begin with this case and in fact didn't start until decades later.

    I read somewhere about a law concerning how long it takes for 50% of what’s accepted in any field of science to proven to be wrong . In psychology the period of time was 5 years as opposed to decades or more for fields like physics , biology , and math .

    The Mad Bomber seems more like Sherlock Holmes than profiling .

    Read More
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  98. Wilkey says:
    @syonredux

    To be a serial killer you have to commit a series of murders and get away with them all, at least for a while. That requires some degree of intelligence, and it explains why whites are a larger share of serial killers than of murderers overall.
     
    Blacks are disproportionately represented among serial killers:

    There is no doubt that White males have constituted the majority
    of multiple murderers in the United States since such records
    have been kept, but that should be no surprise, because White
    males have constituted the vast majority of males across that time
    period. However, according to some prominent serial-killer
    researchers, between 13% and 16% of identified American serial
    killers operating in the 20th century (a period in which African
    Americans constituted between 8% and 12.8% of the population)
    have been African American (Jenkins, 1998; Newton, 1992). A
    study of 337 serial killers operating since 1825 found that 22%
    were African American (Hickey, 1997), and a study that included
    mass and spree murderers with serial killers put the figure at 20%
    (Levin & Fox, 1985). More recent data for the years 1976 through
    1998 found African American representation among murderers
    with multiple victims (serial, mass, and spree combined) to have
    increased to 38.2% of all such offenders (Fox & Levin, 2001). African
    Americans are thus overrepresented among killers having
    multiple victims by about 3 times relative to their proportion of
    the population.
     
    http://www.sagepub.com/gabbidonstudy/articles/Walsh.pdf

    “Blacks are disproportionately represented among serial killers”

    Yes, but to a lesser degree than they are among murderers overall.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    “Blacks are disproportionately represented among serial killers”

    Yes, but to a lesser degree than they are among murderers overall.
     
    Yes, but this differential has nothing to do with serial-spree-mass murder somehow being an intellectually demanding activity.

    Instead, it reflects the fact that Blacks are vastly more prone to ordinary murder (murder for revenge, profit, etc) but only somewhat more prone to serial-spree-mass murder (murder for pathological reasons).
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  99. Art Deco says: • Website
    @Buzz Mohawk

    "So, basically, it sounds like if it finds a black male was the perpetrator, with the standard amount of admixture for most blacks in the US, it will just produce a generic black male face."

     

    We can go one step further to save time and money: Most of the results will be black and male, because most crime is committed by black males. Therefore, we can just assume that every suspect is a black male until it becomes possible to obtain more details.

    Most of the results will be black and male, because most crime is committed by black males.
    ==
    The most recent data published by the Bureau of Justice Statistics on violent crime (derived from survey research undertaken in 2007) has it that about 25% of perpetrators who can be identified by race were black. The one category of crime where in black perpetrators were a majority was robbery. (One other curio from those statistics: nearly all rapes of black women are by other blacks. Rapes by a white or mestizo or oriental perpetrator are so rare they cannot be detected with conventional survey research tools).

    (N.B.these stats concerned crimes with a single perpetrator).

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux
    Of course, Black murder rates are vastly higher:


    Bear in mind that the FBI lumps Hispanics in with Anglo Whites, so the White stats are inflated:

    Concerning murder victims for whom race was known, 50.0 percent were black, 46.0 percent were white, and 2.6 percent were of other races. Race was unknown for 175 victims. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 2.)

    Of the offenders for whom race was known, 52.4 percent were black, 45.2 percent were white, and 2.4 percent were of other races. The race was unknown for 4,077 offenders.
     
    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded/expanded-homicide-data


    Data for 2013.Again, note that the White stats are inflated, as Anglo whites are lumped in with Hispanics:

    White Homicide Victims in 2013: 3,005
    Number of Whites who were killed by Blacks:409
    Number of Whites who were killed by “Whites”:2,509

    Black homicide Victims in 2013: 2,491
    Number of Blacks who were killed by other Blacks: 2,245
    Number of Blacks who were killed by “Whites”:189

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

    According to the FBI SHR data, in 2011 there were 6,309 black homicide victims in the United States. The homicide rate
    among black victims in the United States was 17.51 per 100,000. For that year, the overall national homicide rate was 4.44
    per 100,000. For whites, the national homicide rate was 2.64 per 100,000.

    http://www.vpc.org/studies/blackhomicide14.pdf
     
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  100. syonredux says: • Website
    @Wilkey
    "Blacks are disproportionately represented among serial killers"

    Yes, but to a lesser degree than they are among murderers overall.

    “Blacks are disproportionately represented among serial killers”

    Yes, but to a lesser degree than they are among murderers overall.

    Yes, but this differential has nothing to do with serial-spree-mass murder somehow being an intellectually demanding activity.

    Instead, it reflects the fact that Blacks are vastly more prone to ordinary murder (murder for revenge, profit, etc) but only somewhat more prone to serial-spree-mass murder (murder for pathological reasons).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wilkey
    "Instead, it reflects the fact that Blacks are vastly more prone to ordinary murder (murder for revenge, profit, etc) but only somewhat more prone to serial-spree-mass murder (murder for pathological reasons)."

    To some degree it reflects the greater ability of white murderers to get away with it, and thus become serial killers. Anyone can murder once. To get away with half a dozen murders or more generally requires some degree of intelligence.
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  101. syonredux says: • Website
    @Art Deco
    Most of the results will be black and male, because most crime is committed by black males.
    ==
    The most recent data published by the Bureau of Justice Statistics on violent crime (derived from survey research undertaken in 2007) has it that about 25% of perpetrators who can be identified by race were black. The one category of crime where in black perpetrators were a majority was robbery. (One other curio from those statistics: nearly all rapes of black women are by other blacks. Rapes by a white or mestizo or oriental perpetrator are so rare they cannot be detected with conventional survey research tools).

    (N.B.these stats concerned crimes with a single perpetrator).

    Of course, Black murder rates are vastly higher:

    Bear in mind that the FBI lumps Hispanics in with Anglo Whites, so the White stats are inflated:

    Concerning murder victims for whom race was known, 50.0 percent were black, 46.0 percent were white, and 2.6 percent were of other races. Race was unknown for 175 victims. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 2.)

    Of the offenders for whom race was known, 52.4 percent were black, 45.2 percent were white, and 2.4 percent were of other races. The race was unknown for 4,077 offenders.

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded/expanded-homicide-data

    Data for 2013.Again, note that the White stats are inflated, as Anglo whites are lumped in with Hispanics:

    White Homicide Victims in 2013: 3,005
    Number of Whites who were killed by Blacks:409
    Number of Whites who were killed by “Whites”:2,509

    Black homicide Victims in 2013: 2,491
    Number of Blacks who were killed by other Blacks: 2,245
    Number of Blacks who were killed by “Whites”:189

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

    According to the FBI SHR data, in 2011 there were 6,309 black homicide victims in the United States. The homicide rate
    among black victims in the United States was 17.51 per 100,000. For that year, the overall national homicide rate was 4.44
    per 100,000. For whites, the national homicide rate was 2.64 per 100,000.

    http://www.vpc.org/studies/blackhomicide14.pdf

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Of course, Black murder rates are vastly higher:
    --
    He was not making assertions about black homicide rates, but about the share of criminal perpetrators who are black males. Reading comprehension. It's great stuff.
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  102. Wilkey says:
    @syonredux

    “Blacks are disproportionately represented among serial killers”

    Yes, but to a lesser degree than they are among murderers overall.
     
    Yes, but this differential has nothing to do with serial-spree-mass murder somehow being an intellectually demanding activity.

    Instead, it reflects the fact that Blacks are vastly more prone to ordinary murder (murder for revenge, profit, etc) but only somewhat more prone to serial-spree-mass murder (murder for pathological reasons).

    “Instead, it reflects the fact that Blacks are vastly more prone to ordinary murder (murder for revenge, profit, etc) but only somewhat more prone to serial-spree-mass murder (murder for pathological reasons).”

    To some degree it reflects the greater ability of white murderers to get away with it, and thus become serial killers. Anyone can murder once. To get away with half a dozen murders or more generally requires some degree of intelligence.

    Read More
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  103. syonredux says: • Website

    To some degree it reflects the greater ability of white murderers to get away with it, and thus become serial killers. Anyone can murder once. To get away with half a dozen murders or more generally requires some degree of intelligence.

    So, your argument is that large numbers of Black serial killers are so stupid that they are caught at murder one? Wouldn’t that mean that an appreciable fraction of Black one-off killers are actually serial killers who were stopped at an early stage and have not been properly labeled?

    Possible.But the level of intellect needed to get away with murdering a complete stranger is quite low.I think that the likelier answer is that Blacks are only somewhat more prone to serial-spree-mass murder than Whites are.

    Read More
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  104. Truth says:
    @HA
    "Six or seven years ago in the Steve-O-Sphere we were going with the “blacks don’t serial kill because it takes great intellect” meme. Now that it has been proven that there are black serial killers, have we collectively abandoned this?"

    I'm not an advocate of any particular viewpoint regarding blacks and serial murder, but I believe the meme in question, when stated honestly and without the usual sloppy shorthand, was that blacks are statistically less likely to be serial killers because of the premeditation and planning involved, not that they never are. Again, I'm not saying I agree with that claim, or that it is not racist, but at least I had enough reading comprehension to be able to parse it.

    Maybe you're just too dumb to be able to distinguish statistical unlikelihood and impossibility, or maybe you can't argue a point honestly and therefore go after a more extreme straw man version, but either way, you're not doing yourself any favors.

    when stated honestly and without the usual sloppy shorthand, was that blacks are statistically less likely to be serial killers because of the premeditation and planning involved,

    “Wilkey” in post #90 has the opposite point of view. So which is it, does continuous murder over a long point of time, in which there are no witnesses and no evidence that would lead the police back to you, imply intellect, or doesn’t it? Or did it imply intellect when it was thought to be white people overrepresented, and somehow magically lose that implication, not that (it is said by some here) that black people are overrepresented?

    Read More
    • Replies: @HA
    “Wilkey” in post #90 has the opposite point of view."

    No, he does not. Again, this is reading comprehension 101. Wilkey is also apparently among those people who believe that blacks are statistically less likely to be serial killers, the camp I was referring to. As for anything more extreme, note that Wayne Williams's connection to the Atlanta Child Murders has been a staple of American murder lore for decades. If, despite that, someone ever claimed afterwards that "blacks don't serial kill", as you put it, that person would have been shot down in short order, in the Steve-o-sphere or anywhere else.

    There is, however, apparently a dispute in these comments over whether an African-American is statistically less likely than a Caucasian to be a serial killer, or else, whether the AA representation of serial murders is merely lower than that their representation of murderers in general, the latter being a less restrictive claim.

    I don't know which of those formulations is more correct. Perhaps they are both wrong, for all I know or care. But I've at least tried to state them honestly, which is more than can be said for you. Both of them are claims that AA's are "statistically less likely" than whites to be serial killers.

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  105. Truth says:
    @The most deplorable one

    Six or seven years ago in the Steve-O-Sphere we were going with the “blacks don’t serial kill because it takes great intellect” meme.
     
    I don't think that was ever the case. Do you have some support for that assertion?

    Maybe you have been watching Copycat too much.

    I don’t think that was ever the case. Do you have some support for that assertion?

    Why yes I do, Sir. There is not even a need to do research, the posts on this thread corresponding to my original question seem to suffice. And the literary gymnastics are, I would say, quite impressive: Case in point;

    “Blacks are disproportionately represented among serial killers”

    Yes, but to a lesser degree than they are among murderers overall.

    Read More
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  106. While we’re on the topic of serial killers. Has anyone noticed how lonerist and introvertist society is when discussing these issues. The media regularly uses the prejudiced phrase “loner gunman,” and who hasn’t heard some loud introvert say “always watch out for the quiet ones” after a few beers in the pub.

    Shouldn’t the liberal SJWs be onto this issue?

    Read More
    • Replies: @unpc downunder
    Sorry that was supposed to be "loud extrovert"
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  107. HA says:
    @Truth

    when stated honestly and without the usual sloppy shorthand, was that blacks are statistically less likely to be serial killers because of the premeditation and planning involved,
     
    "Wilkey" in post #90 has the opposite point of view. So which is it, does continuous murder over a long point of time, in which there are no witnesses and no evidence that would lead the police back to you, imply intellect, or doesn't it? Or did it imply intellect when it was thought to be white people overrepresented, and somehow magically lose that implication, not that (it is said by some here) that black people are overrepresented?

    “Wilkey” in post #90 has the opposite point of view.”

    No, he does not. Again, this is reading comprehension 101. Wilkey is also apparently among those people who believe that blacks are statistically less likely to be serial killers, the camp I was referring to. As for anything more extreme, note that Wayne Williams’s connection to the Atlanta Child Murders has been a staple of American murder lore for decades. If, despite that, someone ever claimed afterwards that “blacks don’t serial kill”, as you put it, that person would have been shot down in short order, in the Steve-o-sphere or anywhere else.

    There is, however, apparently a dispute in these comments over whether an African-American is statistically less likely than a Caucasian to be a serial killer, or else, whether the AA representation of serial murders is merely lower than that their representation of murderers in general, the latter being a less restrictive claim.

    I don’t know which of those formulations is more correct. Perhaps they are both wrong, for all I know or care. But I’ve at least tried to state them honestly, which is more than can be said for you. Both of them are claims that AA’s are “statistically less likely” than whites to be serial killers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    My friend, please go back and read the tread again, it may do you some good.

    Probably won't, but may.
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  108. Jefferson says:

    “Number of Blacks who were killed by “Whites”:189″

    The majority of those so-called 189 “White” on Black homicides were committed by “White” guys who look like Nacho Varga. Only people here on iSteve who watch “Better Call Saul” will get the reference.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The BJS survey data allow for responses other than white and black, so mestizo perpetrators will be coded as Caucasian only in those circumstances where they appeared so to respondent.
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  109. Sunbeam says:

    Looking at those murder rates, with a white versus black comparison (forget for the moment about hispanics; if you read Unz and La Griffe du Lion it’s almost exactly the same as whites) I can’t help but wonder about the rape rates.

    I’ve seen some report from 2007 or so that has been quoted. If memory serves there were 5 or 7 thousand inter-racial rapes. All committed by black males against white women (or did they add asians too?).

    And exactly zero by white males against black women. I found that hard to believe. There had to have been some.

    But then I started to think maybe black women don’t report rape. At all. If you want to pull up Tawanna Brawley and the Duke Lacrosse case go ahead.

    But I am just wondering… in general rape is a crime of opportunity. Home invasion rapes and the like aren’t as common as acquaintance rape.

    So do we have any method to even estimate what black on black rape statistics are like?

    I have a feeling these numbers might be a little harder to find than the murder stats.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "And exactly zero by white males against black women. I found that hard to believe. There had to have been some."

    Right, it's a small sample size issue. I have some larger sample size figures in my new Taki's piece.

    , @FirkinRidiculous
    This should give more context as to what the figures I think you refer to actually show:
    http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/007759.html
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  110. Brutusale says:
    @Big Bill
    I keep reading these neocon accounts of Elizabeth Warren and her getting money and stuff for claiming Indian ancestors (but not, apparently tribal membership). Could you point me to a source--not another neocon talking head, but an actual statement by Warren? You know, like "I am a straight-up Amerindian"?

    Every time I go look I get lost in a neocon echo chamber: " everybody knows!" but no one can give me a link. It's like "global warming" for neocons and ditto-heads: everyone yammers about it, but no one can point to any solid evidence.
    Read More
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  111. @syonredux
    Off-topic but interesting

    These strangely decorated, brightly-colored buildings in El Alto, Bolivia, are the early examples of a new Bolivian architectural style, started after the election of President Evo Morales Ayma in 2006, when the national pride became more important than ever. Appropriately, they are called cohetillos — "spaceships."

    The key architect behind these so-called cohetillos is Freddy Mamani Silvestre.


    There are more than sixty buildings in the city designed by Silvestre, so he's definitely in the same group with Oscar Niemeyer and Antoni Gaudí, who also changed (or defined) the look of a whole city.

     

    http://io9.com/these-brilliantly-colored-bolivian-buildings-look-like-1687418694

    “These strangely decorated, brightly-colored buildings”

    At least it’s not Yet More Frank Fucking Gehry.

    Read More
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  112. Art Deco says: • Website
    @syonredux
    Of course, Black murder rates are vastly higher:


    Bear in mind that the FBI lumps Hispanics in with Anglo Whites, so the White stats are inflated:

    Concerning murder victims for whom race was known, 50.0 percent were black, 46.0 percent were white, and 2.6 percent were of other races. Race was unknown for 175 victims. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 2.)

    Of the offenders for whom race was known, 52.4 percent were black, 45.2 percent were white, and 2.4 percent were of other races. The race was unknown for 4,077 offenders.
     
    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded/expanded-homicide-data


    Data for 2013.Again, note that the White stats are inflated, as Anglo whites are lumped in with Hispanics:

    White Homicide Victims in 2013: 3,005
    Number of Whites who were killed by Blacks:409
    Number of Whites who were killed by “Whites”:2,509

    Black homicide Victims in 2013: 2,491
    Number of Blacks who were killed by other Blacks: 2,245
    Number of Blacks who were killed by “Whites”:189

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

    According to the FBI SHR data, in 2011 there were 6,309 black homicide victims in the United States. The homicide rate
    among black victims in the United States was 17.51 per 100,000. For that year, the overall national homicide rate was 4.44
    per 100,000. For whites, the national homicide rate was 2.64 per 100,000.

    http://www.vpc.org/studies/blackhomicide14.pdf
     

    Of course, Black murder rates are vastly higher:

    He was not making assertions about black homicide rates, but about the share of criminal perpetrators who are black males. Reading comprehension. It’s great stuff.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    He was not making assertions about black homicide rates, but about the share of criminal perpetrators who are black males. Reading comprehension. It’s great stuff.
     
    I know, dear fellow.I just like to make sure that people are aware what section of the population is responsible for a hugely disproportionate share of America's homicides
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  113. Art Deco says: • Website
    @Jefferson
    "Number of Blacks who were killed by “Whites”:189"

    The majority of those so-called 189 "White" on Black homicides were committed by "White" guys who look like Nacho Varga. Only people here on iSteve who watch "Better Call Saul" will get the reference.

    The BJS survey data allow for responses other than white and black, so mestizo perpetrators will be coded as Caucasian only in those circumstances where they appeared so to respondent.

    Read More
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  114. kikz says:
    @Melendwyr
    How in the world could relying on DNA - instead of appearance and witness recollections - exacerbate racist attitudes?

    Unless they mean 'racist' in the Sailerian sense of noticing reality.

    exactly…. and don’cha know.. there’s a war on noticing……

    Read More
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  115. Truth says:
    @HA
    “Wilkey” in post #90 has the opposite point of view."

    No, he does not. Again, this is reading comprehension 101. Wilkey is also apparently among those people who believe that blacks are statistically less likely to be serial killers, the camp I was referring to. As for anything more extreme, note that Wayne Williams's connection to the Atlanta Child Murders has been a staple of American murder lore for decades. If, despite that, someone ever claimed afterwards that "blacks don't serial kill", as you put it, that person would have been shot down in short order, in the Steve-o-sphere or anywhere else.

    There is, however, apparently a dispute in these comments over whether an African-American is statistically less likely than a Caucasian to be a serial killer, or else, whether the AA representation of serial murders is merely lower than that their representation of murderers in general, the latter being a less restrictive claim.

    I don't know which of those formulations is more correct. Perhaps they are both wrong, for all I know or care. But I've at least tried to state them honestly, which is more than can be said for you. Both of them are claims that AA's are "statistically less likely" than whites to be serial killers.

    My friend, please go back and read the tread again, it may do you some good.

    Probably won’t, but may.

    Read More
    • Replies: @HA
    "My friend, please go back and read the tread again, ..."


    I tell you what. You find me an example of someone on this thread or any other on iSteve claiming that "blacks don't serial kill", and I'll read the thread again. Obviously, that will have to be someone who has never heard of Wayne Williams or John Allen Muhammad or Colin Ferguson (I realize the latter was a spree killer more so than a serial killer, so maybe you want to give him a pass), but according to you, there are enough comments out there denying the existence of these very infamous people to constitute a meme. By my count, no one on this thread has denied that blacks don't serial kill, neither Wilkey nor anyone else. What they're arguing about is how their likelihood of being killers w.r.t. whites (if I recall, AA'ns are approx. 5-8 times more likely to be convicted of murder than whites), compares to their likelihood of being serial killers. If you can't see that, try a little rereading yourself.

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  116. Mr. Anon says:

    This sounds like complete bullshit to me. I don’t doubt that DNA can identify a person better than any other physical evidence. I don’t doubt that one can, with a fairly high degree of confidence, conclude from a DNA sample alone the race and ethnic group of a suspect and certain other particulars as well. But reconstruct a picture of his face? That just sounds like flat-out BS. Perhaps this will be a new law-enforcement dodge – like the polygraph, or police psychics.

    Knowing the race of a suspect is useful. But is it especially useful to know that he was a tall black guy, or a tall white guy? That doesn’t narrow the field of suspects down very much.

    On the subject, has their ever been a rigorous, double-blind study on the accuracy of finger-print evidence?

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  117. Mr. Anon says:

    “In 2003, such information helped redirect the search for a serial killer in Louisiana. Police had been looking for a white man based on a witness account and on psychological profiles.”

    Lest one forget, the FBI profile for the Unibomber, who was an angry, disgruntled Harvard-educated former math professor, had him pegged as an angry, disgruntled blue-collar airline worker. They did at least get the angry, disgruntled part right. It’s remarkable how many serial bombers turn out to be angry and disgruntled, rather than having the sunny, cheerful disposition you would expect.

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  118. AnAnon says:
    @syonredux

    Not to “be” a serial killer, but to escape prosecution, so one can continue killing.
     
    The best way to escape detection as a serial killer is to kill people that you don't know personally.That doesn't take much intellect.So, I would say that a guy with an 85 IQ could handle the job fairly well.

    it also helps when the prosecutor is afraid of being called a racist and the media is looking for a “white man in a white van”.

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  119. @Sunbeam
    Looking at those murder rates, with a white versus black comparison (forget for the moment about hispanics; if you read Unz and La Griffe du Lion it's almost exactly the same as whites) I can't help but wonder about the rape rates.

    I've seen some report from 2007 or so that has been quoted. If memory serves there were 5 or 7 thousand inter-racial rapes. All committed by black males against white women (or did they add asians too?).

    And exactly zero by white males against black women. I found that hard to believe. There had to have been some.

    But then I started to think maybe black women don't report rape. At all. If you want to pull up Tawanna Brawley and the Duke Lacrosse case go ahead.

    But I am just wondering... in general rape is a crime of opportunity. Home invasion rapes and the like aren't as common as acquaintance rape.

    So do we have any method to even estimate what black on black rape statistics are like?

    I have a feeling these numbers might be a little harder to find than the murder stats.

    “And exactly zero by white males against black women. I found that hard to believe. There had to have been some.”

    Right, it’s a small sample size issue. I have some larger sample size figures in my new Taki’s piece.

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  120. Jefferson says:

    “The BJS survey data allow for responses other than white and black, so mestizo perpetrators will be coded as Caucasian only in those circumstances where they appeared so to respondent.”

    BS, there is no Mestizo option to classify criminals in the U.S. Show me some FBI’s most wanted posters where a criminal is actually listed as Mestizo under race?

    You have to be on crack Art Deco if you actually believe the majority of so-called “White” on Black homicides in the U.S are committed by Non Hispanic White Gringos and not by South Of The Border Vatos.

    I guess you have learned NOTHING from the George Zimmerman fiasco.

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  121. syonredux says: • Website
    @Art Deco
    Of course, Black murder rates are vastly higher:
    --
    He was not making assertions about black homicide rates, but about the share of criminal perpetrators who are black males. Reading comprehension. It's great stuff.

    He was not making assertions about black homicide rates, but about the share of criminal perpetrators who are black males. Reading comprehension. It’s great stuff.

    I know, dear fellow.I just like to make sure that people are aware what section of the population is responsible for a hugely disproportionate share of America’s homicides

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  122. Jefferson says:

    Just like Black on Black homicides, most so-called “White” on Black homicides in the U.S are also gang related/drug related and last time I checked there is no epidemic of Hells Angels members or Russian or Italian gangsters going around murdering Blacks.

    So the majority of these so-called “White” gangsters going around murdering Blacks are members of gangs like MS-13, Nortenos, Surrenos, The Latin Kings, La Raza Nation, etc.

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  123. Jefferson says:

    ““And exactly zero by white males against black women. I found that hard to believe. There had to have been some.”

    I am surprised there are zero White male on Black female rapes as well, but for different reasons than you. If a South Of The Border Vato Cholo rapes a Black woman that will statistically be counted as a “White” on Black female rape by law enforcement.

    So that is why I am surprised there are no “White” on Black female rapes, I would think at least some of the Low Rider Essays from South Central or Compton would rape a Black woman once in awhile because they live in such close proximity to each other.

    Mexican men are stereotyped as hound dogs who will tap anything that has a vagina. Mexican men are not exactly stereotyped as being extremely picky when it comes to women. They are huge on catcalling just like Black men.

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  124. HA says:
    @Truth
    My friend, please go back and read the tread again, it may do you some good.

    Probably won't, but may.

    “My friend, please go back and read the tread again, …”

    I tell you what. You find me an example of someone on this thread or any other on iSteve claiming that “blacks don’t serial kill”, and I’ll read the thread again. Obviously, that will have to be someone who has never heard of Wayne Williams or John Allen Muhammad or Colin Ferguson (I realize the latter was a spree killer more so than a serial killer, so maybe you want to give him a pass), but according to you, there are enough comments out there denying the existence of these very infamous people to constitute a meme. By my count, no one on this thread has denied that blacks don’t serial kill, neither Wilkey nor anyone else. What they’re arguing about is how their likelihood of being killers w.r.t. whites (if I recall, AA’ns are approx. 5-8 times more likely to be convicted of murder than whites), compares to their likelihood of being serial killers. If you can’t see that, try a little rereading yourself.

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  125. @unpc downunder
    While we're on the topic of serial killers. Has anyone noticed how lonerist and introvertist society is when discussing these issues. The media regularly uses the prejudiced phrase "loner gunman," and who hasn't heard some loud introvert say "always watch out for the quiet ones" after a few beers in the pub.

    Shouldn't the liberal SJWs be onto this issue?

    Sorry that was supposed to be “loud extrovert”

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  126. Truth says:

    Knowing the race of a suspect is useful. But is it especially useful to know that he was a tall black guy, or a tall white guy? That doesn’t narrow the field of suspects down very much.

    Not knowing that an assailant “is 6-2 to 6-4″ wouldn’t be helpful in law enforcement?

    I tell you what. You find me an example of someone on this thread or any other on iSteve claiming that “blacks don’t serial kill”

    And I’ll tell you what, Sport, if you can find an example of me saying that someone said that “blacks don’t serial kill” I will read the rest of your post.

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  127. @Sunbeam
    Looking at those murder rates, with a white versus black comparison (forget for the moment about hispanics; if you read Unz and La Griffe du Lion it's almost exactly the same as whites) I can't help but wonder about the rape rates.

    I've seen some report from 2007 or so that has been quoted. If memory serves there were 5 or 7 thousand inter-racial rapes. All committed by black males against white women (or did they add asians too?).

    And exactly zero by white males against black women. I found that hard to believe. There had to have been some.

    But then I started to think maybe black women don't report rape. At all. If you want to pull up Tawanna Brawley and the Duke Lacrosse case go ahead.

    But I am just wondering... in general rape is a crime of opportunity. Home invasion rapes and the like aren't as common as acquaintance rape.

    So do we have any method to even estimate what black on black rape statistics are like?

    I have a feeling these numbers might be a little harder to find than the murder stats.

    This should give more context as to what the figures I think you refer to actually show:

    http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/007759.html

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