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From the New York Times:

With Echoes of Harvard Case, University of California Faces Admissions Scrutiny

By Anemona Hartocollis, Nov. 15, 2018

An academic who studies affirmative action filed a lawsuit on Thursday against the University of California system, seeking access to a trove of records that he says could reveal whether the system defied state law by surreptitiously reintroducing race as a factor in admissions.

The lawsuit comes just two weeks after the end of a federal trial examining whether Harvard discriminates against Asian-American applicants. The California suit has clear echoes of that case, and it may signal the opening of a Pandora’s box of similar data requests at universities across the country, as opponents of race-conscious admissions seek ammunition for their cause.

“To me, this has always been a civil rights issue,” Richard Sander, the academic who is bringing the suit, said in an interview on Wednesday. “If you cut off the data, you’re saying we don’t think the public has a right to examine any of the factors determining admission or success at the university.” …

Unlike Harvard, which makes no secret of its race-conscious admissions but says it does not discriminate,

Because that’s perfectly logical.

the nine undergraduate colleges that make up the University of California are prohibited by state law from even considering the race or ethnicity of applicants. California has banned affirmative action in colleges and universities since 1996.

Professor Sander, a law professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, is a prominent proponent of the contentious “mismatch” theory, which holds that students who receive substantial admissions preferences — some racial minorities, for instance, but also so-called legacy applicants and athletes — often flounder and fail, whereas they would flourish if they went to universities to which they would be better matched.

He said that he believed the damage was greatest when universities weighed race heavily over other factors and that he was not opposed to the use of slight racial preferences.

But Professor Sander said he also believed that researchers and universities were too focused on admissions data when analyzing campus diversity. They should also be looking at outcomes data, he said, which includes majors, grades, how long it took students to graduate, whether they went to graduate or professional school and even their earnings after graduation.

That is the type of data Professor Sander is seeking in his lawsuit. He said he had received several years’ worth of similar data from the University of California in 2008, and found that even though the number of black and Hispanic students admitted to Berkeley and U.C.L.A. fell after the affirmative action ban the drop was more than offset by increases in enrollment at other campuses and increases in graduation rates. More talented students applied to the top schools, he said, while others began at less elite campuses and transferred up.

For the past year, he said, the university system has blocked his public records requests for data from the past decade so he can update his studies, even though he has offered to pay for it himself.

Professor Sander said he suspected that the system, which serves hundreds of thousands of students, reacted to public pressure over declining African-American enrollment by secretly reintroducing race-conscious admissions. That led to a sharp increase in enrollment for black and Hispanic students from California high schools from 2006 to 2013, he said, and fewer Asian-American and white students.

A spokeswoman for the California system, Dianne Klein, said on Wednesday that the university system did not consider race in its admissions process. “Neither race, ethnicity nor gender factor into U.C.’s holistic admissions policy,” she said.

Ms. Klein added that to comply with the request for the type of data Professor Sander wants, the university system would have to create a customized database. Public records law does not require it to do that, she said.

Q. Is the University of California violating the California constitution?

A. It’s a secret.

Q. It’s not supposed to be a secret.

A. Yeah, well, we’d have to write some code to let you look at the data that would tell whether we are violating the state constitution, so, checkmate, you racist!

 
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  1. bomag says:

    I get the feeling that at the end of all this, YT will lose some more.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  2. Which is longer, the California constitution or the Oxford English Dictionary?

    For whatever reason, every initiative makes every piddly statute law change an amendment to the constitution. You can’t bind the hands of a future parliament, but you can slow them down a bit, or at least try.

    All the amendments of the US Constitution, good or bad, deal with genuine constitutional issues, the one exception being the Eighteenth.

  3. Hubbub says:

    this type of manipulation is not going to end until the university system collapses or returns to its purpose as an education facility, not a social hierarchy which it is on its way to doing.

  4. Ms. Klein added that to comply with the request for the type of data Professor Sander wants, the university system would have to create a customized database.

    Well, she’s got a point. It’s not easy shifting some columns from an old database into a new database … when your DBAs are all Affirmative Action hires.

    • Replies: @El Dato
  5. By Anemona Hartocollis

    “Anemona”? As in brain massage?

  6. Polynikes says:

    Having some familiarity with such litigation, you wouldn’t believe how hard it is to even line up some “right” leaning academics these days. That’s even with good “consulting” fees.

  7. Svigor says:

    A spokeswoman for the California system, Dianne Klein, said on Wednesday that the university system did not consider race in its admissions process. “Neither race, ethnicity nor gender factor into U.C.’s holistic admissions policy,” she said.

    Muh disparate impack.

  8. Daniel H says:

    >>Ms. Klein added that to comply with the request for the type of data Professor Sander wants, the university system would have to create a customized database. Public records law does not require it to do that, she said.

    Nobody in UC administration can figure out how to do a simple data dump into CSV files? Or if that is too complicated just dump the data into plain text files. Just give the job to some work study kid who has taken programming 101. I’m sure that professor Sander would be happy with a simple data dump. He can figure out how to use it.

  9. Anon[135] • Disclaimer says:

    … the university system has blocked his public records requests for data from the past decade so he can update his studies, even though he has offered to pay for it himself.

    Ms. Klein added that to comply with the request for the type of data Professor Sander wants, the university system would have to create a customized database. Public records law does not require it to do that, she said.

    So in other words, they just don’t want to give him the data.

    If UC uses admissions algorithms and factors that are not race, but which are iteratively A-B tested to produce more black and Hispanic admittees, and if this is done explicitly and overtly, and is documented in memos and e-mails, as I suspect it is, it seems indistinguishable from using race as a factor. It’s like what the FBI calls “parallel construction,” using illegal 4th Amendment violations to uncover something, and then reverse engineering another fake way that they could have, but didn’t, use to discover the same information legally, essentially evidence laundering, and putting that fake explanation in court documents.

    And I think that’s one thing that Sander wants to show.

  10. Anonymous[103] • Disclaimer says:

    bureaucrats = deeversity’s brownshirts

  11. Marty says:

    Somewhere around ’05 the WSJ had a front page story about a Vietnamese guy from Garden Grove who was denied admission to UCLA despite having a gpa of 4+ and a 1560 SAT. Sure woukd like to see some admissions people grilled about that one.

  12. Altai says:

    OT:
    Has Steve seen this? Trump has made them lose their minds.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/war-christmas-jews-who-leave-house-december-would-beg-differ-ncna942496

    A ‘War on Christmas’? Jews who leave the house in December would beg to differ.
    Liberals can be just as bad as their conservative counterparts when it comes to enforcing an oppressive Christmas climate.

    By Lux Alptraum

    I have never been a fan of Christmas.

    As a young Jewish child, I wrote a letter to my local newspaper arguing that Christmas trees in public schools were a violation of the separation of church and state. In the fifth grade, when Santa hats were all the rage among my classmates, I showed up to school wearing a yarmulke in an act of protest. In my adult years, I’ve joking referred to myself as a “one woman War on Christmas”; yes, I am the coworker who will loudly complain about your decision to blare “It’s the Most Wonderful Time of the Year” at your desk.

    I should note that it is not the celebration of Christmas, per se, with which I take issue. Spending time with loved ones and exchanging gifts are lovely traditions, and while many of the particular traditions of Christmas are not quite to my taste, I’m thrilled to know they give others a great deal of joy. And, as someone who comes from a mixed-faith heritage, I have many relatives for whom Christmas is deeply meaningful and important. (Up until my grandmother died, most of my December 25s were spent at her house, opening presents around her tree — a tradition I remember quite fondly.)

    Wow, she’s thrilled that over 98% of Americans love Christmas, she just wishes you’d keep all the jolliness and good will to all men inside your house, with just your nuclear family please. It’s so great Ms Alptraum is gracious to allow the goyim, including her own family, that privilege. She reminds me of the old joke about a child being asked about his ethnicity saying “I’m half Jewish and half nothing”.

    It would be bad enough if this aggressive Christmas assault were purely the domain of the rabid right wing; if the only people I needed to worry about fending off were the types who see cries of “Happy Holidays” as an affront to their religious freedom, or the switch from red to green holiday cups as some sign of an Islamic agenda. But the truth is that liberals — even ones who ostensibly embrace religious diversity — can be just as bad as their conservative counterparts when it comes to enforcing the oppressive Christmas climate.

    She openly wants to restrict (Even the secular) celebration of Christmas but claims this isn’t an attempt to restrict the religious freedoms of Christians. Some ads on TV and completely secular decorations in public places moderns increasingly avoid constitutes an ‘oppressive Christmas climate’.

    Jesus, Christmas has been completely terraformed to allow non-Christians to celebrate it (As almost all atheists without Jewish ancestry do readily) like Easter. If Ms Alptraum finds it oppressive that’s her fault and her choice. But it’s the tone and confidence she writes it in, they really don’t see the resentment they’re building.

    • Agree: TWS
  13. Svigor says:
    @Hubbub

    Make student debt dischargeable.

  14. The UC’s refusal to produce the data tells you everything you need to know about what it will show.

    The next best thing to an outright ban on AA would be a requirement of transparency so that the culture and market can accurately value the relative difference between an AA degree and a Merit-based Degree at each school.

    • Replies: @academic gossip
  15. This is a kabuki dance. We all know how it’ll go. If the data show that blacks are admitted at lower rates than others, then the data prove the admissions system is racist. If the data show that blacks graduate at lower rates than others, then the data prove the grading system is racist.

    Let us take it a step further. If the data show that black UC graduates earn less than others, then the data prove the world is racist. Which everyone who matters already knows.

  16. “A spokeswoman for the California system, Diane Klein…”

    No further questions, your honor.

  17. Sorry, OT: doing the job that whites won’t do, collecting billions of dollars to house migrants.

    A truly iSteve tale.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/02/us/southwest-key-migrant-children.html

    • Replies: @william munny
  18. Spud Boy says:

    Isn’t it pretty easy to keep colleges from using race in admissions by simply not providing a place on the application to list one’s race?

  19. @Reg Cæsar

    “Which is longer, the California constitution or the Oxford English Dictionary? ”

    And, which contains more words you’ve probably never heard of?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  20. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Q. Is the University of California violating the California constitution?
    A. It’s a secret.

    They ‘google’ the results.

  21. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    “Neither race, ethnicity nor gender factor into U.C.’s holistic admissions policy,”

    Not directly. But indirectly, it seems okay. So, no one is favored because he is black. But someone is favored IF he eats grits and black-eyed peas.

    So, if you can’t favor blacks directly, do it indirectly. Just favor those factors that align with black culture and life.

    Same with Mexicans. No one is favored for being Mexican, but people who consume lots of tortilla are favored. It’s not the race, it’s the food.
    Very ‘holistic’.

    • Replies: @Carbon blob
  22. “That led to a sharp increase in enrollment for black and Hispanic students from California high schools from 2006 to 2013, he said, and fewer Asian-American and white students.”

    …but, we can be sure, not Jewish students. Right, Ms. Klein?

  23. Coag says:
    @Hubbub

    The universal hierarchical church is alive and kicking after 2000 years, there’s no reason our Moldbuggian Cathedral won’t stick around either, unfortunately…

  24. Twinkie says:
    @Altai

    oppressive Christmas climate

    Argh. This makes me want to go full falangist and give these people a real “oppressive Christmas climate.” Why are some people so determined to radicalize me?

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
  25. @Reg Cæsar

    Lies, damn lies, and statistics:

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  26. @Altai

    “Alptraum” is the German word for nightmare.

    So, an amazingly appropriate name.

  27. @Altai

    Fortunately, there is a nation now for Jews who don’t want to be around the gentiles, their culture and traditions.

    Yet somehow …. these folks just never seem to go.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    , @anonymous
  28. A spokeswoman for the California system, Dianne Klein, said on Wednesday that the university system did not consider race in its admissions process. “Neither race, ethnicity nor gender factor into U.C.’s holistic admissions policy,” she said.

    Nice grammar.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  29. jim jones says:

    I like to annoy my Catholic neighbours by pointing out that Christmas is when we celebrate the pagan feast of Yule

  30. MBlanc46 says:

    Constitutions are for the little people.

  31. @Daniel H

    Why there might be half a million, a million entries in that database. It could take years!

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  32. Bravo, UC.

    Why would anybody even want to analyze data relating race to college admissions? First of all, it’s of no legitimate scientific interest whatsoever. Second, we already know what the results would be — that colleges are doing nothing illegal at all. Third, there’s no such thing as race anyway, so the results would be utterly meaningless (aside from showing exactly what we would hope they would show), therefore the study wouldn’t have any construct validity in the first place. Finally, if the results were made public, they would only be misinterpreted by racists to make dubious statistical conclusions to advance some evil agenda, a social harm which would far outweigh the good of expanding our knowledge, and, again, it wouldn’t even be expanding our knowledge because we already know there’s nothing interesting to find.

    Although these arguments are bulletproof, I suspect a handful of readers will still not be persuaded. If only there were some other issue I could use as a well-established precedent to convince them.

    • Replies: @Gyre07
  33. @415 reasons

    Judging by how fast they count votes in California, that could take hundreds of clay tablets.

  34. @Anon

    If UC uses admissions algorithms and factors that are not race, but which are iteratively A-B tested to produce more black and Hispanic admittees, and if this is done explicitly and overtly, and is documented in memos and e-mails, as I suspect it is, it seems indistinguishable from using race as a factor.

    It’s documented and done openly because it’s presumably legal to intentionally reduce disparate impact (e.g., of the SAT on blacks and Hispanics) by finding disparate impact factors that have a smaller effect in the opposite direction. The point of disparate impact analysis is to consider the total result of the selection process, not the effect of every single factor in isolation, and in that respect the “parallel construction” would be making things more legal rather than less.

  35. @Hypnotoad666

    Sander is a pro-AA liberal, but has said that he wants the scale of it to be more limited (to avoid mismatch) and the mechanisms to be transparent.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  36. @Reg Cæsar

    CA is like a little baby on this score compared to Alabama, which has the world’s longest written constitution of any political entity.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  37. Related thoughts:

    At some point AA will disappear among private universities, not because of outside pressure or court rulings, but because the universities will want it to disappear. When America is majority nonwhite, proportional representation will mean that universities will need to be majority nonwhite. Neither whites, nor non-whites, want to go to a majority nonwhite school, and any school that uses AA to recruit a student body that is majority nonwhite will be shooting itself in the foot (or perhaps head). Mark my words, the Hispanic/African American % is going to stay constant at private schools even as their % of the population climbs; the universities will be taking a more and more elite slice of Hispanics and blacks, and at some point they may actually become remotely qualified.

    Public universities will be a whole different story since they are controlled by the voters.

    Steve has been somewhat deferential to private school admissions committees, making the point that elite colleges are probably pretty good at picking classes, given that they have maintained their elite status for years, and the alumni donations keep rolling in. But…alumni donations today are the people who were admitted 30 years ago. 30 years ago the admissions committees definitely knew what they were doing. Do they still? I’m not sure, and we won’t know for another 30 years. Even if they are doing the same things today that the committees were doing 30 years ago, times change and that formula might not work any more. My personal observation is that recent graduates seem to have very little loyalty or affection for their alma maters, and I don’t see they donating or otherwise supporting these schools like the last generation did. This is doubly or triply true for white males. Who historically at least have been the big givers.

  38. El Dato says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Yeah.

    SELECT [whatever] FROM students INTO give_the_gentleman_the_data WHERE [something is true]

    Query took 2.23 ms

    DBAAAs (“Dah Base Affirmative Action Adhmin”) cannot do that.

  39. @Clive Beaconsfield

    CA is like a little baby on this score compared to Alabama, which has the world’s longest written constitution of any political entity.

    California’s is seventh in the US and eighth in the world. Alabama’s is longer than the next three (India, Oklahoma, and Texas) combined.

    1 Alabama 369,129
    2 India 146,385
    3 Oklahoma 98,303
    4 Texas 98,089

    8 California 74,821

    http://scocablog.com/californias-constitution-is-not-the-longest/

    Wasn’t Alabama one of the states that required blacks to recite the US Constitution in order to vote? Requiring them to recite the state constitution would violate the Bill of Rights– specifically, the Eighth Amendment’s prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment.

    By the way, California’s constitution goes this one better. It prohibits cruel or unusual punishment.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    , @ScarletNumber
  40. @Spud Boy

    Ssssh! Someone might read that, and carry it out!

  41. Gyre07 says:

    A lot of jawing over something which is very ‘black and white’. The law couldn’t be more clear. And a publicly funded university like UC has to be much more transparent about their admissions data than Harvard does. If the UC is caught intentionally violating a very clear law it won’t go well for a number of people in high places in California.

  42. Anon[135] • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel H

    They should also be looking at outcomes data, he said, which includes majors, grades, how long it took students to graduate, whether they went to graduate or professional school and even their earnings after graduation.

    I don’t think UC knows grad school or earnings. Majors, grades and years-to-graduate they certainly know. Years to graduate is used in all kinds of contexts, including USNWR. It used to be that schools would be graded on percent graduating in 4 years, then at some point it briefly became 5 before ending up at 6 years. The explanation is that there may be a shortage of class seats requiring kids to delay required classes. Bullshit! I think the only reason kids are not graduating in 4 years is that they are too dumb to be in college, which they don’t realize at first, so it takes a few quarters or semesters for them to flunk out of STEM classes and econ and philosophy before ending up in grievance studies. Think of 6 years of student loans!

    Charles Murray wrote that only 10 percent of kids should be in college, but that he would accept 20 percent as a compromise. 16 percent are 1 standard deviation over average at IQ 115 (and gifted is 130) I think that 16 percent should be the number to aim for. But wait, only 1 percent or so of blacks would qualify, so scratch that idea. This is why we cannot have nice things.

  43. Gyre07 says:
    @WowJustWow

    You apparently specialize in spewing fact-free gibberish. Got any other millennial nonsense you wish to share?

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  44. @SimpleSong

    A lot of people are big givers to their alma mater in their will. Recent graduates have 4,5,6 decades to go before they start “giving” big donations.

  45. Gyre07 says:
    @SimpleSong

    Public universities are not ‘controlled by’ the voters (i.e., the UC is “controlled” by a committee called the Regents), but definitely funded by the voters, and built by the voters. An even greater point of distinction. De facto Affirmative Action (aka ‘reverse discrimination’) WILL be rooted out here in California, again, once it’s exposed thanks to this lawsuit.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  46. @bomag

    Perhaps some of us will still be around to witness the Great Battle for Supremacy between Asians and Jews. Care to lay odds?

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  47. @ben tillman

    Good catch. I thought it was just one error, but now I see it’s two.

  48. @Reg Cæsar

    Wasn’t Alabama one of the states that required blacks to recite the US Constitution in order to vote?

    Loath as I am to defend Alabama, this is a typically anti-white racist urban legend, of which you could stand to disabuse yourself. The strictest literacy test ever applied–which is itself the stuff of legend now–required a person seeking to register to vote to read a section of the state constitution and then explain it to the county clerk. This was itself fairly rare in practice, but it’s not rare at all on the internet in the Current Year.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
  49. @SimpleSong

    When America is majority nonwhite, proportional representation will mean that universities will need to be majority nonwhite. Neither whites, nor non-whites, want to go to a majority nonwhite school, and any school that uses AA to recruit a student body that is majority nonwhite will be shooting itself in the foot (or perhaps head).

    Most of America’s top universities are already majority-nonwhite.
    They’re still quite popular among applicant classes.

    • Replies: @Prodigal son
  50. jon says:
    @Spud Boy

    Isn’t it pretty easy to keep colleges from using race in admissions by simply not providing a place on the application to list one’s race?

    It’s all about the personal statement. Race/Ethnicity based clubs also help.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  51. @MikeatMikedotMike

    To be fair, at the time that was true. Hell, Tomsula won that game as well, so he started his career 2-0. Problem was that he ended it 6-11.

  52. @Reg Cæsar

    Antonin Scalia was someone who took the conjunction in “cruel and unusual” literally.

  53. @Daniel H

    “the university system would have to create a customized database.”

    Translation: UC would have to get its lies straight.

  54. @academic gossip

    But “disparate impact analysis” absolutely entails taking race into consideration. That’s illegal in California.

    • Replies: @academic gossip
  55. @TomSchmidt

    This is the second time this week I have read a NYT article with actual reporting that includes a significant number of facts that must be uncomfortable to NYT readers (the private school article). Are they slipping?

  56. Ed says:

    This may end up leading to a new referendum and I’m not so sure the ban would pass this time around.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  57. @Mr McKenna

    Good point. Whites are a minority’s at most Ivy League schools already and Whites are under 41% of the students at MIT , Stanford, Johns Hopkins , Duke , etc…

    whites are a minority of Public High School students today , and among children under the age of 9 Whites are a minority in America. Thus whites are already underrepresented among the top 20 universities , representing just 43% of the students when 52% of graduating seniors are white today. The number of whites graduating high school is falling , not just in percentages, the actual number of whites graduating High School is lower today than in 1980 , 1990 , 2000 and 2010.

  58. @Hubbub

    this type of manipulation is not going to end until the university system collapses or returns to its purpose as an education facility, not a social hierarchy which it is on its way to doing.

    A credentializing system like these elite universities is not just going to “collapse” on its own.

    But … if we give it a shove?

    One item that ought to be on the right/nationalist agenda is an alternative–and much cheaper–credentializing system. Students can learn however they like–ex. on-line courses, etc.–and get credentialized directly through testing. Have the feds accept these tested credentials and we’d be up and running.

    This would have a whole bunch of benefits:
    – expose the lack of actual learning in much of the non-STEM university cirriculum.
    – start rolling back kids exposure to leftist indoctrination
    – cull a huge amount of the college/university system, and force those people to get real jobs
    – which in turn would make the leftist b.s. career path less appealling
    – reduce the AA contention
    – dial back the whole HS striving, must get into “good college”, “Yale or Jail” drama that makes everyone’s lives miserable, and return the focus to learning stuff
    – reduce the debt load on students, making their lives better and “affordable family formation” easier
    – reduce the “college tuition”–ergo cost of kids– angst among parents, increasing their fertility

    Win, win, win, win, win.

    The plain fact is we have lots of more options for learning now and can develop more options for assessment/credentializing now and there’s no reason everyone who’s going to do some sort of white collar work needs to trot off–expensively–to college for four years of dubious–and in some cases destructive–”education”.

  59. peterike says:

    Is UC Violating California Constitution Via Racial Preferences?

    I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say…. yes.

  60. (((Diane “Every-Single-Time” Klein))) and all the chancellors, presidents, admissions officers, and other worthless adminitriviators should all be forced, regardless of responsibilities to any particular campus, to telecommute from a centralized facility housed by the University of California at Merced. Let them live their dreamz and walk their talk.

  61. @Reg Cæsar

    I see the Mainers finally got sick of the New Hampshirites’ shit and decided to annex the place. It probably didn’t makes the news because some Jewish Negro who castrated himself scrawled Ku Kux Klam on a mosque that same day.

    Anyway, data don’t vary; only a datum doesn’t vary.

  62. @academic gossip

    Dang, are you a lawyer? Anything can mean anything I guess. Reminds me of racial gerrymandering or even outright segregation. Don’t those practices result in disparate impact too?

    • Replies: @academic gossip
  63. @Mr McKenna

    Why the aversion to defending Alabama?

    (In living memory one could buy forty acres for forty thousand dollars, sure, but I’m happy we put a stop to that so we could have neighbours named Rajit, Mohammad, Ping, and Gustavo!)

  64. @jon

    Names can also often provide a Strong clue as to the applicant’s race.

    How many white and Asian applicants are named Deandre, Tyriq, or Hakim?

    How many white and Asian applicants have hyphenated last names like Johnson-MacPherson?

    Conversely, how many African-“American” college applicants are named Caleb, Dylan, Chelsea, Madison, etc, or even just John, Peter, or Mark?

    Plenty of ways for these white-hating creeps to discriminate against our children until we sue them blind and, eventually, put them in jail for doing it.

  65. @Spud Boy

    There are also interviews if the university wants them.

  66. @AnotherDad

    What do you mean, they’re in West Los Angeles in force.

  67. @SimpleSong

    I’m not a recent grad, to be sure, but I will never donate to my alma mater because they actively work to displace european-Americans and traditional western culture more broadly in the USA. Their political and social activism, and their admitted efforts to favor nonwhites over whites, disqualified them from day one.

  68. @Gyre07

    Unless Asians make it their top priority to stop the California university system from discriminating against whites and Asians, that will not happen. Even if they do it make their top priority, it probably still will not happen.

    The share of the State population that is Asian is growing, but they are and will remain badly outnumbered by Mexicans and other “Latinos” in the population generally, in the college-age population, and in the electorate.

    Asian voters and the remaining large but declining number of (nonHispanic) white voters in California would need a united front to have any realistic chance of accomplishing this. If they did accomplish it, it would be overturned, and “AA” discrimination against Asians and whites simply reinstated as the Hispanics grow to a larger and larger majority.

    Cali now FORTY percent Hispanic, mostly nonwhite, about 38% nonHispanic white, 14% Asian, and the Hispanic and Asian populations are much younger than the white population.

    • Replies: @Prodigal son
  69. https://www.dw.com/en/japan-medical-school-admits-scoring-down-female-candidates/a-44985797

    “Medical school director Tetsuo Yukioka apologized Tuesday for ‘betraying public trust’”

    “the university had manipulated the scores of female applicants to keep the ratio of women-to-men at 30 percent”

    “University vice president Keisuka Miyazawa said such alterations ‘should never happen’ and pledged that next year’s exams would be fair.”

    “Education Minister Yoshimasa Hayashi said he planned to vet entrance procedures of all medical schools amid expert claims that such discrimination was widespread.”

    “Women’s empowerment minister Seiko Noda told Japan’s NHK public broadcaster the exam points manipulation had been ‘extremely disturbing.’”

    “Investigators found that in this year’s entrance exams the school reduced all applicants’ first-stage test scores by 20 percent and then added at least 20 points for male applicants, except those who had failed four times.”

  70. @Mr McKenna

    Asians, but with a number of Asian/Jewish Mischlings among the elite. Jews will marry into almost any group that is, or is becoming, the dominant political, economic, and cultural force.

  71. @Hubbub

    The university system was never about education- it was about making sure the next generation of elite had the write mores and culture.

  72. @Nicholas Stix

    California has no law against university administrators thinking and strategizing about the racial demographic effects of their admission policies. What is forbidden by Proposition 209 is to racially “discriminate” which in the US law is determined based on actions, not intent. If the actions rise to a potentially illegal level then intentions might be scrutinized. Mining for discriminatory intent is an Orwellian level of analysis that is only applied in corrupt 9th Circuit rulings against the Trump administration.

  73. Unlike Harvard, which makes no secret of its race-conscious admissions but says it does not discriminate,

    Because that’s perfectly logical.

    It is logical to them.

    Discrimination has come to mean only actions that are unfavorable to blacks. Even natural consequences of uncivilized behavior, such as higher rates of violent crimes committed by blacks upon other blacks, is discriminatory because the outcome is unfavorable to blacks.

    Following this line of thought processes, admitting students who are less qualified than students who are rejected based solely on race is not discrimination if the outcome is favorable to blacks.

    Why do we allow a segment of our population, one that demonstrates inability to self reflect, to criticize us?

  74. @AnotherDad

    None of those options for learning can be used because they would harm the protected classes because of a discriminatory impact. There is no point in learning anything outside of the academy because no one is allowed to have a social network outside of these officially approved organization due to anti-discrimination law.

  75. @academic gossip

    Sander is a pro-AA liberal, but has said that he wants the scale of it to be more limited (to avoid mismatch) and the mechanisms to be transparent.

    It’s always possible he’s a crypto-conservative.

    But if the “mismatch” argument is real, that’s another good argument for AA transparency. It would give the “beneficiaries” a chance to judge for themselves how deep over their heads they want to get thrown in.

    I haven’t seen whether Sander has actual data to show tangible harm from the “mismatch” phenomenon. I suspect it is a very real thing in STEM and technical fields. Also, you would have to balance the danger of being in over your head against the benefit of moving up a notch or two in the prestige of your degree.

    If I were an unqualified AA applicant accepted at Harvard, I would take the “mismatch” in heartbeat. With rampant grade inflation and plenty of soft classes and majors made for exactly this purpose you’d come out the other end with a super-prestigious degree and the chance to network with the elite. Money in the bank.

    On the other hand, if the choice is about upgrading from Cal State to UC, I’d probably have to think about it.

  76. wrd9 says:

    Here’s an old article from the NYT that openly admits that UCLA takes race into account.

    Here’s the key passage.

    “Prop. 209 has made things more challenging,” he said. “It has created a new paradigm. But there are still things that can be done.” I asked him whether those things might include civil disobedience, and Taylor surprised me by replying: “Exactly when you cross over into civil disobedience is not always clear. And I probably come down on the side of pushing the outer limits. I’m much more of the attitude of, ‘So what if someone sues?’ If you lose, you at least define the line a little more clearly. You say, ‘Mea culpa,’ and you don’t do it anymore.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/magazine/30affirmative-t.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

  77. @RadicalCenter

    Would rather have 40% hispanic population if the Black population was 5% like California….here in the New Jersey 18% are Black and the Hispanics are mostly Puerto Rican

  78. Telling the truth about AA is like telling the truth about demographic replacement. If you’re a liberal, you can go ahead and praise AA for “diversifying” the universities, just as you can crow about a future of glorious minority majorityhood. But if you dare state the same facts without implying they are good, then it’s gaslighting for you.

  79. @Anon

    Of course you’re right on all counts. Unfortunately, access to information about AA has become a simple matter of force. The only way to pry it out of the Universty of California’s hands is for a future Republican governor to sent armed men into Sproul Hall (Berkeley’s main admin building) to seize records.

    Which will never happen.

    • Replies: @wrd9
  80. wrd9 says:
    @International Jew

    Conservatives need to hire hackers. That’s the only way the real information gets out.

  81. @AnotherDad

    There’s lots of good reasons there, A.D. As you mentioned the debt load, to me you were contradicting this statement, though:

    A credentializing system like these elite universities is not just going to “collapse” on its own.

    What can’t go on, won’t go on [/Instapundit]. Parents will eventually realize that, even if the credentialism of the Universities is still respected, having their kids accumulating a house-mortgage amount of debt for no significant gain, but a good time for 4-6 years, is not worth it. The fact that the US Feral Gov’t has been backing student loans to where the banks have nothing to lose, started this thing getting out of control. Tuition’s been rising according to what students can borrow, and universities have been hiring dipshit admins and building out their campuses accordingly.

    It’s the University Bubble. It’ll pop. I wish I could say when, because it’s gonna effect me some.

  82. @Anon

    Pretty sure that’s not what they do.

    A ‘holistic’ student body needs non-varsity athletes for some reason, so they can draw from there.

    It also needs artists and musicians, so they can draw from there as well (’cause Asians never show any interest in music).

    Or maybe they need to equalize the family income distribution of the students (there aren’t any poor Asians in California either).

  83. @stillCARealist

    What the University of California administrators do amongst themselves is not in itself an action in the scope of Proposition 209, except toward the people personally involved. Unless they conduct their meetings in blackface, insert racial slurs into the official reports, or some equally unlikely thing, there is nothing discriminatory (in any legal sense) in their activities.

    If the end result of their consultations is policy that, when translated into actions concerning applicants, students, professors, employees, neighbors, alumni, or whoever else, does not pose a problem under Proposition 209, then it is hard to see how there can be a further legal issue raised by the process that led to the policy.

    Sander’s lawsuit is not about this sort of hypothetical Orwellian meta-illegality based on the history of how the policies come about. He is arguing that (data are withheld because) illegal racial preferences are secretly applied in admission to some of the UCs.

  84. @Faraday's Bobcat

    Let us take it a step further. If the data show that black UC graduates earn less than others, then the data prove the world is racist. Which everyone who matters already knows.

    Yep, and the dead people treated by the Black who got Bakke’s slot were racists. They only died to advance the white peeple agenda.

    And those dead peeple did not listen to The Outlaw Josey Wales, who pointed out that ‘dyin ain’t much of a livin’

    But then they were dead. And because they were dead, they now vote Democrat. Forever.

  85. @Twinkie

    This makes me want to go full falangist and give these people a real “oppressive Christmas climate.” Why are some people so determined to radicalize me?

    Well, I have asked the same question myself. The best answer I know was provided the The Last Real Calvinist, and I may be wrong, but I saw that the answer, well, it was through the dark glass (or the transparent glass I see through darkly), that they believe there is no God, but they are the best servants of God, and must realize the Godless millennial of Christ – without God or Christ, of course. Hence they must be the bestest ever of humanity (cf. Corvinus). If I am wrong, The Last Real Calvinist will correct me, as he has done before.

    Naturally, we recognize this as the greatest of the Protestant heresies – outdoing even Islam (can that be possible? – maybe, though conceiving the same is difficult, but doable after you wake up tomorrow and have a cup of coffee) so we cannot reason with them. These are articles of Faith for them. And we know what religious wars look like, because we know European history.

    Let us hope I am wrong. And in the case of you and me as us, let us pray together that I am wrong.

    But I think I am right.

    I shall look for you on the battlefield, and when I see you I shall salute you, brother. I shall hope we will win the day, and the battle, and especially, the war. And then, if we have won, I shall grieve that it has come to this, because none of it will have been necessary.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  86. Anon[427] • Disclaimer says:

    A. Yes.

    As an undergrad at UC Berkeley in 2011, I waited for a meeting with an administrator in the EECS department inside her office in Cory Hall. I overheard her on the phone discussing Hispanic admission rates to the department with the clear implication that it was desirable to increase them. It seemed odd to me at the time that she was making no effort to hide what appeared to be a clear violation of Prop. 209.

  87. Twinkie says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Thank you for the kind words.

    And then, if we have won, I shall grieve that it has come to this, because none of it will have been necessary.

    Indeed, sir. Indeed.

  88. @Faraday's Bobcat

    Affirmation Action needs to end at all colleges. The problem is not at the college level and any college lowing standards for anyone based on race is calling that person stupid. They don’t believe a Black kid can make the grade so they lowered the standards to get into college. Actually, Black people have been making the grade and getting into colleges long before Affirmation Action so that proves it can be done. The difference was, though, those Black kids were the children of parents who had a little money and could afford to send their kids to private or parochial school. They learned something. They took college entrance exams and passed them.

    I’m a 62-year old Black woman and the school system was being dumbed-down around 40′s(?) give or take a few years. By the 60′s, public schools in the inner city were already bad. My parents sent me to parochial school because they said nobody learns anything in a public school–this was back in 1960′s! I believe the public school system now is nothing but a SuperPAC for the Democratic Party.

    The problem is K-12. This is where parents and teachers need to start focusing. If they won’t fix it, then these parents need to take their children out of those schools and home school them or hire someone to teach them at home. If that’s not doable, and their state has a voucher program, use that, if not, try Charter schools–ANYTHING but a public school! Nothing will change if parents are not involved. Governments and/or teachers don’t fix schools–parents do– or they find other schools for their children. Parents, especially parents in the inner cities, should be screaming for school choice! However, they’re not, they’re voting for Democrats! I’ve never been a Democrat. I only voted for one and that was Jimmy Carter and only because it was my first time voting and my dad told me to register Democrat and vote for him. Well, Carter cured me of ever voting for Democrats ever again. Between the Muriel Boat Lift, allowing the Shah of Iran to be deposed in a coup and doing nothing–he was our ally, the Hostage Crisis and the botched rescue–8 American servicemen died–I was traumatized. I believed that Democrats were dangerous and unfit to lead my country. I was right. I never voted for a Democrat again.

    This month we celebrate Our Savior’s birth! So Rejoice!

    Remember to keep our strong, one-of-a-kind warrior and very stable genius of a President, Donald J. Trump, our graceful and classy, FLOTUS, and their beautiful family in your prayers, always! They are a blessing!

    I want to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas and a Healthy, Safe and Happy New Year!

    • Agree: William Badwhite
  89. anonymous[185] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    Why don’t you go somewhere?

    What have you done for the country you were born in?

    Off to Australia with your worthless self!

    If they would have you, you sad old crabby loser.

    • Replies: @Trevor H.
  90. Trevor H. says:
    @anonymous

    It’s amazing what passes muster in the Whim Dept around here.

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