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Below is the Thursday memo from Google’s CEO announcing that he wasn’t going to explain his firing of James Damore after all.

Projection is not just a river in Egypt.

Or something.

 
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  1. TWalsh2 says:

    TL;DR in corporate speaks means – what’s to follow is complete and utter BS.

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  2. Randal says:

    in the coming days we will find several forums to gather and engage with Googlers, where people can feel comfortable to speak freely

    Straightforward knowing dishonesty, or some kind of self-serving unselfawareness based upon a dogmatic distortion of reality?

    What Pichai’s statement would have had to be in order to be honest and objectively accurate:

    in the coming days we will find several forums to gather and engage with Googlers, where people can feel comfortable to speak freely within the limits regarded as politically and morally acceptable by the Google hierarchy

    Why can’t Pichai be honest enough to write that instead of the obvious falsehood he actually wrote?

    Read More
    • Replies: @jimmyriddle
    Speak freely, lol. It will go down something like this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLUktJbp2Ug
    , @EdwardM

    Straightforward knowing dishonesty, or some kind of self-serving unselfawareness based upon a dogmatic distortion of reality?
     
    I vote for the latter, and also agree with the subsequent comments that the CEO was at least smart enough to realize that the session could turn into a bitch session that they simply don't want to deal with even in their myopia.

    Bald-faced corporate lying is really a pox on our culture. I remember an unrelated but analogous example from my days at a major consulting firm. We were doing "rebuilding" work in Iraq shortly after the Bush 43 invasion and one of our staff members was killed by a roadside bomb.

    The CEO send the usual hand-wringing all-firm e-mail saying, "Our number one priority is the safety of our employees."

    This is self-evidently untrue; if it were true, we wouldn't do work in Iraq! Why couldn't he have said the obvious truth, which is, "Our number one priority is to make profits for our shareholders by serving our clients. This objective obviously involves trade-offs, and any employee is free to work a project in Iraq (with hazard pay) or choose not to accept such an assignment." That's a legitimate business decision, but it seems like no company could make such a statement nowadays.
    , @Bill

    Why can’t Pichai be honest enough to write that instead of the obvious falsehood he actually wrote?
     
    Because some of the tenets of the religion he is upholding via his persecution of heretics is that there are no heretics, it isn't a religion, and persecuting heretics would be wrong if it were a religion and there were heretics.

    Modernity gets a lot of mileage out of this trick of naming things after their opposites. But the piper has to be paid, and the payment is telling big lies when the room for maneuver gets too tight.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  3. “Denial is not just a river in Egypt” -

    - and therefor Freud is fired as well for being sexually discrimanatory.

    Google shall rule.

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  4. NickG says:

    in the coming days we will find several forums to gather and engage with Googlers, where people can feel comfortable to speak freely

    Unconscionable irony alert.

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  5. Arclight says:

    I suspect they know there is a fair amount of dissent in the ranks that they don’t want to come to light (assuming there are more people willing to publicly disagree after Damore’s firing) along with the fact that the pro-firing crowd will probably express some pretty ugly/nutty opinions that will only reinforce the point Damore made.

    Also, their legal team probably told them to clam up while they get ready to deal with Damore’s lawsuit lest these meeting provide an abundance of ammunition to support his claims.

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    • Agree: Travis
    • Replies: @Barnard
    I wonder how many of the "supportive" email were written to send a signal to management that "I am not one of those hate thinkers." Many Google employees who agree with Damore have to be fearing for their jobs.
    , @Bugg
    Would appear the CEO undertook this firing either without ever bothering to consult with Google's nor outside counsel. Between the whistleblower statute and the pending lawsuit, this was the definition of reckless. it's the kind of thing that gets CEOs fired when stockholders don't appreciate PC idiocy taking a torch to their investment. Everything Damore said has been proven by Google's actions. They really believed their PC intentions were a given without ever questioning it.
    , @Prof. Woland
    Damore's anticipated legal action will probably be more than the standard nuisance lawsuit that minorities and women normally file. The vast majority of these lawsuits are simply a shakedown where the claims are low enough to where the company quickly settles after doing a cost benefit analysis. They are always for the same boiler plate reasons.

    Damore looks like he could take a different angle. With the publicity generated, he can spin this into fame and fortune and pick up more benefits than just the ones he might get from winning the lawsuit sometime in the next century.
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  6. Me says:

    Googlers?

    They want people with IQs of >120 to work for them and then they call them Googlers?

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  7. Me says:

    “Most of you agree with us…but SOME of you have expressed dissenting opinions”

    MEETING CANCELLED!!!!

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  8. peterike says:

    I want somebody to ask, out loud, at the meeting: “How come when I search for ‘white couples’ on Google I get pictures of inter-racial couples? Is there an agenda behind this? What is that agenda?”

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I don't get those results. It could be tailored to individual search and browser histories.
    , @Jack Cade
    just did the google search. about one of 10 were white/white. When i searched white miscegenating couples I only got black and white historical photos.
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  9. Barnard says:
    @Arclight
    I suspect they know there is a fair amount of dissent in the ranks that they don't want to come to light (assuming there are more people willing to publicly disagree after Damore's firing) along with the fact that the pro-firing crowd will probably express some pretty ugly/nutty opinions that will only reinforce the point Damore made.

    Also, their legal team probably told them to clam up while they get ready to deal with Damore's lawsuit lest these meeting provide an abundance of ammunition to support his claims.

    I wonder how many of the “supportive” email were written to send a signal to management that “I am not one of those hate thinkers.” Many Google employees who agree with Damore have to be fearing for their jobs.

    Read More
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  10. @Randal

    in the coming days we will find several forums to gather and engage with Googlers, where people can feel comfortable to speak freely
     
    Straightforward knowing dishonesty, or some kind of self-serving unselfawareness based upon a dogmatic distortion of reality?

    What Pichai's statement would have had to be in order to be honest and objectively accurate:

    in the coming days we will find several forums to gather and engage with Googlers, where people can feel comfortable to speak freely within the limits regarded as politically and morally acceptable by the Google hierarchy
     
    Why can't Pichai be honest enough to write that instead of the obvious falsehood he actually wrote?

    Speak freely, lol. It will go down something like this:

    Read More
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  11. “All of your voices and opinions matter…. and I want to hear them.”

    As Adelaide says to Nathan in Guys and Dolls: That is the biggest lie you ever told me!

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  12. anon says: • Disclaimer

    It’s just like that frank discussion about race.

    Its a discussion that no one wants to have. It’s impossible to have this discussion at Google.

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  13. Alfa158 says:

    I was amazed that Goolag was ever intending to have an all hands meeting with questions from the attendees in the first place. Is the leadership so far up in their own ideological bubble ( I use a polite version of the saying) that they never realized the legal exposure that could result from people discussing the issue openly? Is Pichai a smart guy but from another culture so he didn’t understand how a meeting on this subject among Americans could turn out to be the equivalent of a baroom brawl? That really shows poor judgment.
    The best course of action for Goolag is to tell everyone there will be no discussion, shut up, follow orders and stonewall the whole incident. Eventually it will blow over and everyone who matters gets to cash out their stock options and buy Ferraris.
    It’s not like the people who run the government (bureaucrats, congressmen, judges etc.) are going to let Trump start an anti-trust and/or labor violation action against Alphabet which would be the only thing that could really hit them where it hurts. Imagine Alphabet losing a couple hundred billion in market valuation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    The best way to hit Google probably would not involve anti-trust or labor law but, perhaps, a significantly narrower definition of, and shorter legal life of, patents and other intellectual property.
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  14. “A smaller percentage of you wish that we would do more.”

    I imagine the first draft of the response went: At present, due to existing U.S. labor law, we are prohibited from permanently silencing critics of our corporate hiring practices. But we’re right there with you and wish that it was totes OK!

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  15. EdwardM says:
    @Randal

    in the coming days we will find several forums to gather and engage with Googlers, where people can feel comfortable to speak freely
     
    Straightforward knowing dishonesty, or some kind of self-serving unselfawareness based upon a dogmatic distortion of reality?

    What Pichai's statement would have had to be in order to be honest and objectively accurate:

    in the coming days we will find several forums to gather and engage with Googlers, where people can feel comfortable to speak freely within the limits regarded as politically and morally acceptable by the Google hierarchy
     
    Why can't Pichai be honest enough to write that instead of the obvious falsehood he actually wrote?

    Straightforward knowing dishonesty, or some kind of self-serving unselfawareness based upon a dogmatic distortion of reality?

    I vote for the latter, and also agree with the subsequent comments that the CEO was at least smart enough to realize that the session could turn into a bitch session that they simply don’t want to deal with even in their myopia.

    Bald-faced corporate lying is really a pox on our culture. I remember an unrelated but analogous example from my days at a major consulting firm. We were doing “rebuilding” work in Iraq shortly after the Bush 43 invasion and one of our staff members was killed by a roadside bomb.

    The CEO send the usual hand-wringing all-firm e-mail saying, “Our number one priority is the safety of our employees.”

    This is self-evidently untrue; if it were true, we wouldn’t do work in Iraq! Why couldn’t he have said the obvious truth, which is, “Our number one priority is to make profits for our shareholders by serving our clients. This objective obviously involves trade-offs, and any employee is free to work a project in Iraq (with hazard pay) or choose not to accept such an assignment.” That’s a legitimate business decision, but it seems like no company could make such a statement nowadays.

    Read More
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  16. Google needs to shut down further avenues for “Googlers” to register their disagreement with its Diversity policies so as not to repeat l’affair Damore – it’s not a retaliatory firing if the guy getting fired never makes his complaints known via the proper channels in the first place.

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  17. JimB says:

    Google CEO: Nice work if you can get it. Sundar Pinchai seems to be a $200 million a year diversity chair warmer in the Alphabet org chart.

    Big business is full of them these days.

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  18. Bill says:
    @Randal

    in the coming days we will find several forums to gather and engage with Googlers, where people can feel comfortable to speak freely
     
    Straightforward knowing dishonesty, or some kind of self-serving unselfawareness based upon a dogmatic distortion of reality?

    What Pichai's statement would have had to be in order to be honest and objectively accurate:

    in the coming days we will find several forums to gather and engage with Googlers, where people can feel comfortable to speak freely within the limits regarded as politically and morally acceptable by the Google hierarchy
     
    Why can't Pichai be honest enough to write that instead of the obvious falsehood he actually wrote?

    Why can’t Pichai be honest enough to write that instead of the obvious falsehood he actually wrote?

    Because some of the tenets of the religion he is upholding via his persecution of heretics is that there are no heretics, it isn’t a religion, and persecuting heretics would be wrong if it were a religion and there were heretics.

    Modernity gets a lot of mileage out of this trick of naming things after their opposites. But the piper has to be paid, and the payment is telling big lies when the room for maneuver gets too tight.

    Read More
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  19. @Alfa158
    I was amazed that Goolag was ever intending to have an all hands meeting with questions from the attendees in the first place. Is the leadership so far up in their own ideological bubble ( I use a polite version of the saying) that they never realized the legal exposure that could result from people discussing the issue openly? Is Pichai a smart guy but from another culture so he didn't understand how a meeting on this subject among Americans could turn out to be the equivalent of a baroom brawl? That really shows poor judgment.
    The best course of action for Goolag is to tell everyone there will be no discussion, shut up, follow orders and stonewall the whole incident. Eventually it will blow over and everyone who matters gets to cash out their stock options and buy Ferraris.
    It's not like the people who run the government (bureaucrats, congressmen, judges etc.) are going to let Trump start an anti-trust and/or labor violation action against Alphabet which would be the only thing that could really hit them where it hurts. Imagine Alphabet losing a couple hundred billion in market valuation.

    The best way to hit Google probably would not involve anti-trust or labor law but, perhaps, a significantly narrower definition of, and shorter legal life of, patents and other intellectual property.

    Read More
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  20. Are the many Google employees sending “supportive e-mails” creating documents subject to upcoming legal discovery?

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  21. ic1000 says:

    Sundar Pichai wrote:

    The vast majority of you are very supportive of our decision [to fire Damore]. A smaller percentage of you wish we would do more.

    What’s the “more” that a plurality of Pichai’s correspondents wish that senior management would do? Fire Damore twice? Hack his match.com account and upload it to Gizmodo (after stripping out footnotes, hyperlinks, and figures)? Burn him at the stake on the front lawn of Google’s campus, while serving free umbrella drinks to the celebrating spectators?

    Fun to think about, but these are engineers emailing Pichai with suggestions. The pragmatic action item is for management to root out the remaining wreckers and saboteurs, and put matching dunce caps on their heads. Google Translate is up to the job of getting the Mandarin lettering right.

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  22. bored identity figured out how it works:

    First, they will ask you to speak freely….and only after that you’ll get fired.

    Sounds reasonable.

    Praise Cthulhu that we don’t live in Russia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Yep. It's like Mao saying "Let a 1000 flowers bloom", got everyone to out themselves and then sicced the Red Guard on them,
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  23. bored identity figured out how it works:

    First, they will ask you to speak freely….and only after that you’ll get fired.

    Sounds reasonable.

    Praise Cthulhu that we don’t live in Russia.

    Read More
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  24. AndrewR says:

    I absolutely do not believe that the “vast majority” of goolagers are “very supportive” of the canning. Pichai is unspeakably evil.

    Read More
    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
    What is the distribution of Hindu castes among Google employees?

    Is Pichai himself an "Untouchable"?

    What percentage of Google staff are Shudra (lowest caste)? How many "Googlers" come from "Scheduled Castes" or "Scheduled Tribes" (i.e. underclass groups)?

    Do higher-caste Indian women at Google date lower-caste men?

    Do Untouchables at Google mix smoothly with senior management?

    Does anyone keep track of caste? Why not? Are there lists secretly passed around to keep out caste impostors? ("She is actually only an X from Y state.")

    What about Korean baekjeong at Google?

    Let's have a data-driven conversation with Pichai.

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  25. The vast majority of you are very supportive of our decision. A smaller percentage of you wish we would do more. And some are worried that you cannot speak out at work freely.

    I have a feeling it was not a “vast” majority which supported the decision. And maybe it was not merely “some” who were worried about speaking out freely at work.

    Read More
    • Replies: @james wilson
    After firing the man who did not agree with him, the vast majority of people who offered him an opinion agreed with his opinion. The lack of self-awareness here is startling.
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  26. A smaller percentage of you wish we would do more.

    What’s this, the stake-burning lobby?

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  27. Logan says:

    What I don’t understand is why they felt it necessary to fire him. Why not just a company statement that Damore’s memo was his own opinion and did not reflect company policy? Or, if they wanted to be a tad more proactive, why not a point by point refutation of his remarks? Assuming the could cobble one together.

    On further thought, I guess the point of the defenestration was that they wanted to make it clear that these topics were not to be discussed. Not no way, not no how. Stating disagreement or an attempt to refute would simply have encouraged further discussion, which was the last thing they wanted.

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  28. ic1000 says:

    Here’s a Reddit entry by somebody who claims to be a longtime IT manager, My experience as a hiring manager in IT engineering from huge companies to startups. Posted anonymously (I can’t figure out why), so it’s FWIW.

    I live on the US west coast and have been in IT for about 26 years now. I’ve been a team manager 5 times and each time was pretty different but I had several run ins with diversity policies or lack of causing me problems. In light of the Google engineer being fired, which I find outrageous as both an engineer and a manager, I thought I’d share some of my experiences and hopefully avoid being doxed…

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  29. Forbes says:

    Googlers are concerned about their safety at work???

    I wonder, how many worker-lost-days does Goolag suffer each year due to injuries and accidents on the job?

    I’ve worked at companies that had actual goals regarding worker safety and avoiding lost-days due to accident and injury. And these pinheads are concerned that someone might report what question was asked in a company-wide meeting of 60,000 people…

    Well, I use Brave and DuckDuckGo now, and am working on dropping Gmail.

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  30. @reiner Tor

    The vast majority of you are very supportive of our decision. A smaller percentage of you wish we would do more. And some are worried that you cannot speak out at work freely.
     
    I have a feeling it was not a "vast" majority which supported the decision. And maybe it was not merely "some" who were worried about speaking out freely at work.

    After firing the man who did not agree with him, the vast majority of people who offered him an opinion agreed with his opinion. The lack of self-awareness here is startling.

    Read More
    • LOL: Randal, reiner Tor
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  31. Bugg says:
    @Arclight
    I suspect they know there is a fair amount of dissent in the ranks that they don't want to come to light (assuming there are more people willing to publicly disagree after Damore's firing) along with the fact that the pro-firing crowd will probably express some pretty ugly/nutty opinions that will only reinforce the point Damore made.

    Also, their legal team probably told them to clam up while they get ready to deal with Damore's lawsuit lest these meeting provide an abundance of ammunition to support his claims.

    Would appear the CEO undertook this firing either without ever bothering to consult with Google’s nor outside counsel. Between the whistleblower statute and the pending lawsuit, this was the definition of reckless. it’s the kind of thing that gets CEOs fired when stockholders don’t appreciate PC idiocy taking a torch to their investment. Everything Damore said has been proven by Google’s actions. They really believed their PC intentions were a given without ever questioning it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Arclight
    It would of course be awesome if the CEO had his wrist slapped or fired - that would then trigger a round of think pieces in The Atlantic pondering if he would have received the same reprimand if he were white, conveniently ignoring that Asians are wildly over represented in tech.
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  32. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    This is why Indians have trouble when they hit CEO level. It’s not that they can’t do the everyday work. It’s because they lack moral fiber, clarity, and judgment whenever a crisis occurs. White CEOs handle trouble better, and it’s a white-only trait that explains why they keep ending up in charge of things all over the place. The rest of the world keeps trying to move to white areas because they’d much rather be ruled by whites than their own people. Their own people just screw things up big if they’re in charge.

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  33. Jack D says:

    C-suite announcement are usually Orwellian but this is way worse than usual.

    We had hoped to have a frank, open discussion today as we always do

    - yeah right – ask Damore how he feels about “frank open discussions” at Google – you first Pikachu.

    , and on some websites Googlers are now being named personally.

    Taste of your own medicine?

    Googlers are writing In, concerned about their safety

    Gosh these people are snowflakes. Do they really think that the storm troopers are coming to their house to beat them up?

    So in the coming days we will find several forums to gather and engage with Googlers, where people can feel comfortable to speak freely.

    Like Damore was? Fool me twice, shame on me.

    Over the past two days, I have had the chance to meet with so many people here, and I have read each of your emails carefully. The vast majority of you are very supportive of our decision.

    That’s not what the surveys say – maybe the people who are emailing you are ass-lickers who want to stay on the right side of the Party?

    A smaller percentage of you wish we would do more.

    MORE? Like what, have Damore taken out and shot? That kind of more? Or do you really mean less, like not firing him. Did anyone write that to you or were they too afraid for their jobs?

    And some are worried that you cannot speak out at work freely.

    Why would they have ANY reason to be worried? I can’t imagine how this idea got into their head.

    All of your voices and opinions matter…and I want to hear them.

    I want to hear them and note down your names and frogmarch you out the door if what you say is not OK. So please remember to be open and honest.

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  34. Jack D says:

    News flash: the announcement was just a ruse. I have information that the meeting went ahead as planned and I have obtained secret footage that was shot at the meeting. I apologize for the quality of the video – all Googlers were required to surrender their devices for security purposes, but one Googler was wearing an experimental Google contact lens camera that escape the metal detectors.

    Susan Wojcicki is seen at 2:38 shouting “Long Live Sergei!”- you may not recognize her since the sex change operation.

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    • LOL: ic1000
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  35. Sounds as credible as the youtube lady’s anecdote about her daughter.

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  36. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @peterike
    I want somebody to ask, out loud, at the meeting: "How come when I search for 'white couples' on Google I get pictures of inter-racial couples? Is there an agenda behind this? What is that agenda?"

    I don’t get those results. It could be tailored to individual search and browser histories.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I do. At least half of the images are of interracial couples.
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  37. @Arclight
    I suspect they know there is a fair amount of dissent in the ranks that they don't want to come to light (assuming there are more people willing to publicly disagree after Damore's firing) along with the fact that the pro-firing crowd will probably express some pretty ugly/nutty opinions that will only reinforce the point Damore made.

    Also, their legal team probably told them to clam up while they get ready to deal with Damore's lawsuit lest these meeting provide an abundance of ammunition to support his claims.

    Damore’s anticipated legal action will probably be more than the standard nuisance lawsuit that minorities and women normally file. The vast majority of these lawsuits are simply a shakedown where the claims are low enough to where the company quickly settles after doing a cost benefit analysis. They are always for the same boiler plate reasons.

    Damore looks like he could take a different angle. With the publicity generated, he can spin this into fame and fortune and pick up more benefits than just the ones he might get from winning the lawsuit sometime in the next century.

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  38. Arclight says:
    @Bugg
    Would appear the CEO undertook this firing either without ever bothering to consult with Google's nor outside counsel. Between the whistleblower statute and the pending lawsuit, this was the definition of reckless. it's the kind of thing that gets CEOs fired when stockholders don't appreciate PC idiocy taking a torch to their investment. Everything Damore said has been proven by Google's actions. They really believed their PC intentions were a given without ever questioning it.

    It would of course be awesome if the CEO had his wrist slapped or fired – that would then trigger a round of think pieces in The Atlantic pondering if he would have received the same reprimand if he were white, conveniently ignoring that Asians are wildly over represented in tech.

    Read More
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  39. @bored identity
    bored identity figured out how it works:

    First, they will ask you to speak freely....and only after that you'll get fired.

    Sounds reasonable.




    Praise Cthulhu that we don't live in Russia.

    Yep. It’s like Mao saying “Let a 1000 flowers bloom”, got everyone to out themselves and then sicced the Red Guard on them,

    Read More
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  40. anon says: • Disclaimer

    The moment Damore sues, it is SOP not to discuss pending litigation.

    Or … get this …

    “We respect Mr Damore’s privacy, just like that of all our googlers, and won’t discuss this matter further.”

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  41. guest says:

    Does the CEO actually use the term “Googlers?” Sounds childish.

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  42. @Anonymous
    I don't get those results. It could be tailored to individual search and browser histories.

    I do. At least half of the images are of interracial couples.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    And I'm searching from Central Europe.
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  43. @reiner Tor
    I do. At least half of the images are of interracial couples.

    And I’m searching from Central Europe.

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  44. Karl says:

    if you have been a google software tech for multiple years (google doesn’t do any hardware, is that correct?)…. and you lose your job at google, exactly how many other places are there to look for a job?

    The search-engine universe isn’t that large. The largest other employers, are the 3-letter agencies… and they do random drug testing and EXTENSIVE background investigations

    People stepped up to give job offers to Damore. It was not because they needed his google tech background

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  45. Eagle Eye says:
    @AndrewR
    I absolutely do not believe that the "vast majority" of goolagers are "very supportive" of the canning. Pichai is unspeakably evil.

    What is the distribution of Hindu castes among Google employees?

    Is Pichai himself an “Untouchable”?

    What percentage of Google staff are Shudra (lowest caste)? How many “Googlers” come from “Scheduled Castes” or “Scheduled Tribes” (i.e. underclass groups)?

    Do higher-caste Indian women at Google date lower-caste men?

    Do Untouchables at Google mix smoothly with senior management?

    Does anyone keep track of caste? Why not? Are there lists secretly passed around to keep out caste impostors? (“She is actually only an X from Y state.”)

    What about Korean baekjeong at Google?

    Let’s have a data-driven conversation with Pichai.

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  46. Jack Cade says:
    @peterike
    I want somebody to ask, out loud, at the meeting: "How come when I search for 'white couples' on Google I get pictures of inter-racial couples? Is there an agenda behind this? What is that agenda?"

    just did the google search. about one of 10 were white/white. When i searched white miscegenating couples I only got black and white historical photos.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    For me, roughly half were interracial, mostly black guy and white woman, with one white guy and black woman, and a few South Asian/Arab guys with white women.
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  47. @Jack Cade
    just did the google search. about one of 10 were white/white. When i searched white miscegenating couples I only got black and white historical photos.

    For me, roughly half were interracial, mostly black guy and white woman, with one white guy and black woman, and a few South Asian/Arab guys with white women.

    Read More
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