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Jed Kolko writes in CityLab on private school stats:

Among the 100 largest U.S. metros, private school enrollment tends to be highest in places that are richer, more educated, and more Catholic, though less Hispanic, than the national average. Among the top 10 metros for private school enrollment, income is particularly high in Honolulu, San Francisco, Philadelphia, and Wilmington. New Orleans, Philadelphia, and Cleveland also have a high share of Catholics. Finally, in all of these metros except San Francisco, the Hispanic population share is low.

Top 10 Metros with the Highest Private School Enrollment
# U.S. Metro Private school enrollment
1 New Orleans, LA 25.1%
2 Honolulu, HI 20.7%
3 San Francisco, CA 19.9%
4 Baton Rouge, LA 19.1%
5 Philadelphia, PA 18.4%
6 Wilmington, DE-MD-NJ 17.6%
7 Cleveland, OH 17.5%
8 Milwaukee, WI 17.0%
9 Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN 16.9%
10 St. Louis, MO-IL 16.7%
Note: among 100 largest U.S. metros. Grades 1-12 only.

Besides Catholics, having a lot of blacks drives up private school enrollment for white flight reasons. New Orleans, Honolulu, and San Francisco all have Old Money and SF has New Money (and Timeless Money) too.

On the flip side, the 10 metros where private school enrollment is lowest are in the Southwest or West. All except Salt Lake City have large Hispanic populations—a reminder that private schools are popular among non-Hispanic Catholics, but not among Hispanic Catholics. Additionally, Fresno, El Paso, and Bakersfield are all relatively low income.

Top 10 Metros with the Lowest Private School Enrollment
# U.S. Metro Private school enrollment
1 Fresno, CA 3.7%
2 El Paso, TX 4.3%
3 Bakersfield, CA 4.6%
4 Las Vegas, NV 5.5%
5 Riverside-San Bernardino, CA 6.0%
6 Phoenix, AZ 6.2%
7 Houston, TX 6.2%
8 Salt Lake City, UT 6.9%
9 San Antonio, TX 7.2%
10 Austin, TX 7.2%
Note: among 100 largest U.S. metros. Grades 1-12 only.

In my SoCal experience, a surprising fraction of Catholic school kids with Spanish surnames turn out to be Filipino. The Catholic hierarchy demands more Latin American immigration, but they ought to keep in mind that Mexicans don’t send their kids to Catholic schools much. I don’t know whether it’s Mexican anti-clericalism or, more likely, Mexicans just aren’t all that much into this whole investing in your children’s education thing.

Neighborhoods with extremely high private school enrollment include wealthy areas in big-city school districts. Examples include the Upper East Side of Manhattan (72% private), Upper Connecticut Avenue in Northwest Washington, DC (73%), and several upscale neighborhoods in mid-size cities. In addition, the much lower-income, orthodox Jewish neighborhoods of Monsey, NY, and Lakewood, NJ, also have high private school enrollment. In several neighborhoods across the country with large Amish, Mormon, and other religious communities, private school enrollment is over 50 percent. New York’s Upper East Side, parts of Lancaster County, PA, and Colorado City, AZ, may have little else in common, but they are all communities where private school is the norm.

Colorado City, AZ is a polygamous Fundamentalist LDS town. I’d be surprised if the patriarchs are paying for all that private schooling out of their own pockets. They usually have multiple scams going to fleece the state and federal taxpayers.

Kolko even goes on to consider something that everybody talks about in their own lives but never seems to get quantified in the press:

Time To Do the Math: Do Private Schools or Great Public School Districts Cost More?

Like most things with active markets, it turns out to be something of a toss-up, but Kolko has some interesting numbers such as:

So let’s call out 10 ZIP codes with low private school enrollment, but where families have higher incomes, parents are highly educated, and the school district has an average GreatSchools rating of 8 or more (This list is for illustration only because small sample sizes mean high margins of error.)

Upscale Neighborhoods Where Kids Go to Public Schools
# ZIP code Neighborhood U.S. Metro Private school enrollment Median asking price per SQFT
1 10514 Chappaqua New York, NY-NJ 2% $326
2 11753 Jericho Long Island, NY 2% $340
3 08536 Plainsboro Edison-New Brunswick, NJ 3% $202
4 01719 Boxborough Middlesex County, MA 4% $185
5 02466 Auburndale Middlesex County, MA 4% $354
6 60564 Naperville Chicago, IL 4% $155
7 07028 Glen Ridge Newark, NJ-PA 5% $243
8 01778 Wayland Middlesex County, MA 5% $288
9 77094 Eldridge- Green Trails Houston, TX 6% $131
10 01730 Bedford Middlesex County, MA 6% $308

Chappaqua is where the Clintons maintain their legal residence.

Anyway, it’s a good collection of data so check out Kolko’s article, complete with better formatting of tables.

 
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  1. Mexicans aren’t revolted by thugs.

  2. Steve, I hear conservatives saying all the time that inner city blacks do well in private/charter schools. Can you or someone else or with similar priors look into it? I remember you saying it’s about pouring an absurd amount of resources into these schools, but is that it? Or fraud? Could you address the best arguments that conservatives have?

    • Replies: @Lamb
    Educational Realist has done some posts that sort of dance around this topic.
    http://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2014/07/31/education-schools-prescriptive-training-and-academic-freedom/
    http://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2014/07/24/parents-and-schools/ - AKA: White Kids don't do KIPP.

    "Relay’s techniques are designed for mid-ability, low income black and Hispanic children in elementary and middle school whose parents are desperate to remove them from schools that aren’t allowed to expel troublemakers. In return for a guarantee of expelled troublemakers, the parents sign up for all sorts of commitments and expectations that parents with any other choice would laugh at. And Relay’s methods won’t work without that anvil hanging over the kids’ heads. Or, as I said in my last post, white kids don’t do KIPP."

    Short Version:

    Charters for Black kids tend to combine both crazy requirements (dress code) with the ability to suspend and expel the complete idiots.

    White people tend to be rich enough to get the fark out of the bad neighborhoods, black people who give a damn settle for charters. Who then suspend and expel at ridiculous rates.

    Black is a filter. Black who is willing and able to meet the requirements of the charter school and then not get expelled is a completely different filter.

    So yes, black kids in charters do better (Also noting that not all charters are created equal). Whether that's because black kids actually do better in charters or because black kids in charters are not the same as black kids outside of charters is up to you.
  3. Haha, where is Dallas on the list…I remember questioning why my coworkers always had their kids in private Christian schools, and they were like are you kidding….I think of the more modern “racism” came from being intimidated in newly integrated public schools in the 60s.

  4. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Mexicans don’t send their kids to Catholic schools much [perhaps because they] just aren’t all that much into this whole investing in your children’s education thing.

    Not your most charitable take. Putting aside the underclasses, I think the Mexican-American outlook is more analogous to what afflicts the white-flyover middle-class/high-proles: they are reasonably well-intentioned, but not of means and rather parochial.

    They don’t comprehend The Education Status Game and its importance because they have little exposure to elitism and credentialism. The birds and the bees aren’t exactly spelled out by popular media and news outlets as it doesn’t jive with the whole meritocratic American Dream bit.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    But parochial school isn't terribly high up in the Status Game (although it is black neighborhoods in Chicago).
  5. “Besides Catholics, having a lot of blacks drives up private school enrollment for white flight reasons. ”

    Yup.

    A few weeks ago I was listening to Mark Duplass being interviewed on Marc Maron’s podcast (a goldmine, btw). He’s from New Orleans, and upon mentioning attending private school Maron asks why, religious reasons? Nope, Duplass replies, and he states very frankly that NO public schools were a virtual non-option for white parents, unless they wanted their kids to get their asses beat on a daily basis.

    • Replies: @Jim
    I live in the Houston area and people I know who have moved here from New Orleans describe the New Orleans public schools as abysmal.
  6. Mexicans aren’t revolted by thugs.

    Unfortunately, a good many rich whites aren’t revolted by thugs either. Especially when the thugs happen to be their own children. Thugs get respect, especially in the ghetto known as public school. Nerds don’t.

  7. @anon

    Mexicans don’t send their kids to Catholic schools much [perhaps because they] just aren’t all that much into this whole investing in your children’s education thing.
     
    Not your most charitable take. Putting aside the underclasses, I think the Mexican-American outlook is more analogous to what afflicts the white-flyover middle-class/high-proles: they are reasonably well-intentioned, but not of means and rather parochial.

    They don't comprehend The Education Status Game and its importance because they have little exposure to elitism and credentialism. The birds and the bees aren't exactly spelled out by popular media and news outlets as it doesn't jive with the whole meritocratic American Dream bit.

    But parochial school isn’t terribly high up in the Status Game (although it is black neighborhoods in Chicago).

  8. @Angus MacGnonald
    "Besides Catholics, having a lot of blacks drives up private school enrollment for white flight reasons. "

    Yup.

    A few weeks ago I was listening to Mark Duplass being interviewed on Marc Maron's podcast (a goldmine, btw). He's from New Orleans, and upon mentioning attending private school Maron asks why, religious reasons? Nope, Duplass replies, and he states very frankly that NO public schools were a virtual non-option for white parents, unless they wanted their kids to get their asses beat on a daily basis.

    I live in the Houston area and people I know who have moved here from New Orleans describe the New Orleans public schools as abysmal.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The police department of New Orleans pre-Katrina was terrible, too. One of the great old New Yorker writers like Liebling said that New Orleans was a cultural outpost of the Mediterranean.

    You don't have honest police departments or good public schools in Alexandria or Naples, so why expect them in New Orleans.

    I got widely denounced for pointing out that, according to statistics of how blacks were doing in different places around the country, a local culture of "Laissez les bons temps rouler!" didn't seem to suit blacks well. They tended to do better in conservative Protestant places like Texas and Georgia than in New Orleans.

  9. @Jim
    I live in the Houston area and people I know who have moved here from New Orleans describe the New Orleans public schools as abysmal.

    The police department of New Orleans pre-Katrina was terrible, too. One of the great old New Yorker writers like Liebling said that New Orleans was a cultural outpost of the Mediterranean.

    You don’t have honest police departments or good public schools in Alexandria or Naples, so why expect them in New Orleans.

    I got widely denounced for pointing out that, according to statistics of how blacks were doing in different places around the country, a local culture of “Laissez les bons temps rouler!” didn’t seem to suit blacks well. They tended to do better in conservative Protestant places like Texas and Georgia than in New Orleans.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    You don’t have honest police departments or good public schools in Alexandria or Naples, so why expect them in New Orleans.

    Because they are good things to have and the dispositions and performance of collectivities is not fixed.


    Greater New Orleans would benefit from being reconstituted into a federation of boroughs. The densely settled portions of the seven parishes in question would be the constituent boroughs which would be responsible for miscellaneous municipal services; a common government of the whole would be responsible for a spare portfolio of land use decisions, the land registry, arterial roadways, lumpy one-off public works, the transit authority, the child protective and foster care apparat, the police force and the jail. If you were able to bring in talent (Wm. Bratton or someone similar) to bring institutional competence up to the NYPD standard, a force and auxiliary with a headcount of 6,700 might be able to restore a baseline of order in the metropolis. If you deployed 3,500 men to work in Orleans Parish, that would more than double the current police presence therein. It would be expensive, of course.
    , @Anonymous
    My brother in law is from an elite NOLA family and his line was "the mistake is to consider New Orleans the most corrupt city in the US, instead, think of it as the best run city in the Carribean." I think he got it from a Tulane Law prof.
    , @Jim
    But Cajuns themselves don't seem to be much of a problem. I went to High School in Vicksburg, Mississippi and there were a lot of Cajun towns on the other side of the Mississippi. The people there were very friendly although very difficult to understand. They may not have been highly intellectual but they didn't seem pathological.
  10. The Catholic hierarchy demands more Latin American immigration, but they ought to keep in mind that Mexicans don’t send their kids to Catholic schools much.

    The economy of Catholic schooling is a disaster, the number of schools has declined by half since 1960, and the quality of specifically Catholic schooling has cratered. These residually Catholic schools need more donations and larger endowments in order to stay in business. If they are meeting their fixed costs as is, more enrollment exacerbates their problems if such enrollment requires scholarship money the diocese and the religious orders lack.

    I think the hierarchs are banking on higher levels of religious observance among immigrant populations and that may be true. That sort of thing can ameliorate the Church’s demographic implosion, but it does not address the Church’s institutional problem, which is derived from a loss of a sense of vocation on the part of most of the episcopacy and the secular clergy. This is manifest in spades in the religious orders, whose decline has been catastrophic (and accounts for the ruin of the economy of the schools as well as the loss of their Catholic character.

    Most dioceses might do better to foster home-school co-operatives and shut their brick-and-morter schools. Real estate developers won’t do much worse by the schools’ current clientele.

  11. My wife teaches elementary school in Salt Lake county (not City, not School District), and she’s had kids from polygamous families in her classes.
    Generally, they’re well behaved, but no more so than the other kids.
    My impression is that these polygamous families in the county will either use the public schools or home school, but I’ve no hard numbers to measure this either way.

  12. @Steve Sailer
    The police department of New Orleans pre-Katrina was terrible, too. One of the great old New Yorker writers like Liebling said that New Orleans was a cultural outpost of the Mediterranean.

    You don't have honest police departments or good public schools in Alexandria or Naples, so why expect them in New Orleans.

    I got widely denounced for pointing out that, according to statistics of how blacks were doing in different places around the country, a local culture of "Laissez les bons temps rouler!" didn't seem to suit blacks well. They tended to do better in conservative Protestant places like Texas and Georgia than in New Orleans.

    You don’t have honest police departments or good public schools in Alexandria or Naples, so why expect them in New Orleans.

    Because they are good things to have and the dispositions and performance of collectivities is not fixed.

    Greater New Orleans would benefit from being reconstituted into a federation of boroughs. The densely settled portions of the seven parishes in question would be the constituent boroughs which would be responsible for miscellaneous municipal services; a common government of the whole would be responsible for a spare portfolio of land use decisions, the land registry, arterial roadways, lumpy one-off public works, the transit authority, the child protective and foster care apparat, the police force and the jail. If you were able to bring in talent (Wm. Bratton or someone similar) to bring institutional competence up to the NYPD standard, a force and auxiliary with a headcount of 6,700 might be able to restore a baseline of order in the metropolis. If you deployed 3,500 men to work in Orleans Parish, that would more than double the current police presence therein. It would be expensive, of course.

  13. Most dioceses might do better to foster home-school co-operatives and shut their brick-and-morter schools

    Close ’em. Brick-and-mortar schools are even more obsolete than B&M bookstores.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    No. Bookstores with a cafe attached can be a great third place. The technology is not why you shut the schools. With the collapse of the religious orders, you cannot get committed and inexpensive faculty. You get lay teachers who cost and are often not on board with the Church's educational
    mission (and not incongruent with much of the parent population, while we are at it). It's a thorough disaster.
  14. Are these Catholic schools publicly funded? I am from Canada, where there is public funding for Catholic schools in seven provinces.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Not in my day. (It was a sore point.)
    , @Art Deco
    No.
  15. My unscientific impression, having grown up (and gone to private school) in California, and living (and sending my children to private school) in NY, is that there are many, many more private schools in NY than in California. When I was a kid, it was VERY unusual for all but the super-elite of California not to use the public schools. I lived in more or less the nicest neighborhood in my town, and I was the only kid not to go public. Instead, I had to be carpooled 20 minutes each way to the only “good” private school in town.

    Today, that public HS is overwhelmingly NAM (Mexican) and the houses in my neighborhood are exponentially more expensive and all the kids go across town. I wonder if demographic pressure and rising UMC wealth will result in the creation of more private schools.

    Places like Palo Alto, though, don’t really need private schools because the publics are already plenty elite. However, no one in Bel Air probably ever sent his kid to the LAUSD.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The huge change in the San Fernando Valley was that the Jewish kids all went to LAUSD, unless they went to academically outstanding Harvard-Westlake. E.g., Ron Unz graduated from North Hollywood HS in 1979. Or I was talking to my dentist and realized that his parents had never paid a penny of tuition all the way through UCLA Dental School.

    It was a political point that Jews believed in the public schools and felt there was something a little un-American about Catholic schools.

    But busing began in the late 1970s. Local Jewish politicians led the fight against it. But that began the exodus out of the private schools.

    Now, the southern Valley is full of Jewish private schools, typically affiliated with a synagogue.

  16. @manton
    My unscientific impression, having grown up (and gone to private school) in California, and living (and sending my children to private school) in NY, is that there are many, many more private schools in NY than in California. When I was a kid, it was VERY unusual for all but the super-elite of California not to use the public schools. I lived in more or less the nicest neighborhood in my town, and I was the only kid not to go public. Instead, I had to be carpooled 20 minutes each way to the only "good" private school in town.

    Today, that public HS is overwhelmingly NAM (Mexican) and the houses in my neighborhood are exponentially more expensive and all the kids go across town. I wonder if demographic pressure and rising UMC wealth will result in the creation of more private schools.

    Places like Palo Alto, though, don't really need private schools because the publics are already plenty elite. However, no one in Bel Air probably ever sent his kid to the LAUSD.

    The huge change in the San Fernando Valley was that the Jewish kids all went to LAUSD, unless they went to academically outstanding Harvard-Westlake. E.g., Ron Unz graduated from North Hollywood HS in 1979. Or I was talking to my dentist and realized that his parents had never paid a penny of tuition all the way through UCLA Dental School.

    It was a political point that Jews believed in the public schools and felt there was something a little un-American about Catholic schools.

    But busing began in the late 1970s. Local Jewish politicians led the fight against it. But that began the exodus out of the private schools.

    Now, the southern Valley is full of Jewish private schools, typically affiliated with a synagogue.

  17. @Anonymous
    Are these Catholic schools publicly funded? I am from Canada, where there is public funding for Catholic schools in seven provinces.

    Not in my day. (It was a sore point.)

  18. The glaring omission is Kansas City, MO, the city where more students graduate from private high schools than from the public school system. Is Kansas City just not large enough to make the list?

    The numbers are truly incredible. In 2013 only about 1,000 students graduated in the whole district. See this quote on p. 2 of http://www.kcpublicschools.org/Page/287

    “Around 1,000 students from seven high schools will receive their high school diplomas. Kansas City Public Schools congratulates these students for doing all they can to be college, career, and workforce ready.
    Posted: 2013-05-15”

    There are about 4 staff/teachers for every 18 students. Let that sink in. 1 person on the payroll for every 4.5 students.

  19. It would be interesting to compare the use of private schools among ordinary Mormons with fundamentalist Mormons. I have heard that the Utah public schools are essentially Mormon (e.g. the school buses take the Mormon students to Mormon school before regular school) and so they really have no need for separate private schools. Maybe that is unique to UT? Or do Mormons also use public schools in WY, CO, CA, etc.?

    Also, Steve, I hope you’ll be commenting on the Notre Dame-Rice matchup at some point- I’m a grad student at ND and I’m looking forward to the game.

  20. My stepmother went to Marlborough but she was from Hancock Park, back when it was WASP old money. Her first cousins, who had the real money, lived in San Marino and went to public. No LAUSD to avoid.

    Santa Cruz did open another Catholic HS about 10 years after I graduated from college.

  21. There are 67 private schools in Kansas City, MO, serving 14,733 students, and there are 152 public schools in Kansas City, MO, serving 66,899 students. There are more districts in the area than just the KC district. That is 22% in private schools.

  22. “Unfortunately, a good many rich whites aren’t revolted by thugs either. Especially when the thugs happen to be their own children. ”

    So rich White people are producing Caucasian versions of Michael Brown ? So there is a lot of White male thugs out there who’s father is a doctor or a lawyer for example ?

  23. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    About 10 years ago, I was coming home from the Army, and I stopped for a few days in New Orleans. I was staying with my Aunt who is a Sacred Heart Nun–they run by far the best all girls’ school in NO, Rosary.

    The first that that surprised me was that there was an enormous waiting list to get into the kindergarten. My aunt said, “you have to get into the kindergarten if you want to get into the first grade. And you can’t get into the school if you miss the first grade. Those nuns had a virtual monopoly on the rich white Catholics of NO.

    The other thing I remember was driving down the street in the middle of the day and seeing all the black kids in uniforms. I realized that the NOSD had made it mandatory to wear a uniform, but that all these kids were just skipping school.

  24. @Hepp
    Steve, I hear conservatives saying all the time that inner city blacks do well in private/charter schools. Can you or someone else or with similar priors look into it? I remember you saying it's about pouring an absurd amount of resources into these schools, but is that it? Or fraud? Could you address the best arguments that conservatives have?

    Educational Realist has done some posts that sort of dance around this topic.
    http://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2014/07/31/education-schools-prescriptive-training-and-academic-freedom/
    http://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2014/07/24/parents-and-schools/ – AKA: White Kids don’t do KIPP.

    “Relay’s techniques are designed for mid-ability, low income black and Hispanic children in elementary and middle school whose parents are desperate to remove them from schools that aren’t allowed to expel troublemakers. In return for a guarantee of expelled troublemakers, the parents sign up for all sorts of commitments and expectations that parents with any other choice would laugh at. And Relay’s methods won’t work without that anvil hanging over the kids’ heads. Or, as I said in my last post, white kids don’t do KIPP.”

    Short Version:

    Charters for Black kids tend to combine both crazy requirements (dress code) with the ability to suspend and expel the complete idiots.

    White people tend to be rich enough to get the fark out of the bad neighborhoods, black people who give a damn settle for charters. Who then suspend and expel at ridiculous rates.

    Black is a filter. Black who is willing and able to meet the requirements of the charter school and then not get expelled is a completely different filter.

    So yes, black kids in charters do better (Also noting that not all charters are created equal). Whether that’s because black kids actually do better in charters or because black kids in charters are not the same as black kids outside of charters is up to you.

  25. “The police department of New Orleans pre-Katrina was terrible, too. One of the great old New Yorker writers like Liebling said that New Orleans was a cultural outpost of the Mediterranean.

    You don’t have honest police departments or good public schools in Alexandria or Naples, so why expect them in New Orleans.”

    Alexandria, Louisiana is 60 percent Black. So can a crooked police department and shitty public schools there really be blamed on “Mediterranean” people ? That is like blaming “Mediterraneans” for why Honduras for example is one of the murder capitals of the world.

    There are really not that many “Mediterraneans” in Louisiana outside of Cajun country.

    Percentage wise there are way more “Mediterranean” people in Northeast states like Rhode Island and New Jersey than there is in Louisiana.

  26. @Anonymous
    Are these Catholic schools publicly funded? I am from Canada, where there is public funding for Catholic schools in seven provinces.

    No.

  27. @Dr. Evil
    Most dioceses might do better to foster home-school co-operatives and shut their brick-and-morter schools

    Close 'em. Brick-and-mortar schools are even more obsolete than B&M bookstores.

    No. Bookstores with a cafe attached can be a great third place. The technology is not why you shut the schools. With the collapse of the religious orders, you cannot get committed and inexpensive faculty. You get lay teachers who cost and are often not on board with the Church’s educational
    mission (and not incongruent with much of the parent population, while we are at it). It’s a thorough disaster.

  28. In Honolulu Asian and Haole families send their children to private schools. Haoles go to Puahau, Asians to Iolani. I went to Maryknol. My dad was the last Haole to go to Iolani.

    The dean of the University of Hawaii’s Department of Education told me he would shut down private schools if he could. He said that Asian parents sending their children to private schools had a negative impact on government schools. He said Asians did this because they wanted to be White (Haole).

    We do not have many Blacks in Hawaii. We do have “Beat up Haole day.” A Local tradition.

    (OK – I exaggerated a little)

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The dean of the University of Hawaii’s Department of Education told me he would shut down private schools if he could.

    One reason, among many others, to fire the teacher training faculty. Fish out a few who are competent tests-and-measurements psychologists and a very few who might teach public administration to someone's benefit and can the rest. The only thing they do is make a facility for rent seeking and the production of humbug and bad policy.
  29. Jefferson, quoting Steve S:
    The police department of New Orleans pre-Katrina was terrible, too. One of the great old New Yorker writers like Liebling said that New Orleans was a cultural outpost of the Mediterranean. You don’t have honest police departments or good public schools in Alexandria or Naples, so why expect them in New Orleans.

    I think Steve was referring to Alexandria, Egypt and Naples, Italy. Hence Mediterranean. Also kudos to Steve for remembering that the south side of the Med is not the same as Sub-Saharan Africa.

  30. Houston, TX 77094 is just noise, not a real data point. Basically is suburb/exurb with no apartments. Developers build apartments last after the folks buy the houses and build the schools and fill them with their middle class kids. Then come the apt.s with their single moms, problem children, etc.

  31. ““Unfortunately, a good many rich whites aren’t revolted by thugs either. Especially when the thugs happen to be their own children. ””

    “So rich White people are producing Caucasian versions of Michael Brown ? So there is a lot of White male thugs out there who’s father is a doctor or a lawyer for example?”

    Yes, there are white versions of Michael Brown. And their fathers are usually small business owners, rich tradesmen who have others working for them, police/fire chiefs, educrats – rather than doctors / lawyers / engineers.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Yes, there are white versions of Michael Brown. And their fathers are usually small business owners, rich tradesmen who have others working for them, police/fire chiefs, educrats – rather than doctors / lawyers / engineers.
     
    Yes, but the question was not whether there are "White versions of Michael Brown." The question was about how many:

    So there is a lot of White male thugs out there who’s father is a doctor or a lawyer for example?
     
    , @Anonymous
    The teenage children of prison guards are always "model citizens". Just ask anyone not related to a prison guard in Crescent City CA.
  32. “Yes, there are white versions of Michael Brown. And their fathers are usually small business owners, rich tradesmen who have others working for them, police/fire chiefs, educrats – rather than doctors / lawyers / engineers.”

    So what percentage of America’s yearly homicides are committed by Whites who come from households that make over $100,000 a year ?

  33. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    The police department of New Orleans pre-Katrina was terrible, too. One of the great old New Yorker writers like Liebling said that New Orleans was a cultural outpost of the Mediterranean.

    You don't have honest police departments or good public schools in Alexandria or Naples, so why expect them in New Orleans.

    I got widely denounced for pointing out that, according to statistics of how blacks were doing in different places around the country, a local culture of "Laissez les bons temps rouler!" didn't seem to suit blacks well. They tended to do better in conservative Protestant places like Texas and Georgia than in New Orleans.

    My brother in law is from an elite NOLA family and his line was “the mistake is to consider New Orleans the most corrupt city in the US, instead, think of it as the best run city in the Carribean.” I think he got it from a Tulane Law prof.

  34. We do not have many Blacks in Hawaii. We do have “Beat up Haole day.” A Local tradition.

    I’m surprised you don’t have “Beat up Mr. Tojo day.” Or is that a Detroit tradition?

  35. @Dr. Evil
    "“Unfortunately, a good many rich whites aren’t revolted by thugs either. Especially when the thugs happen to be their own children. ”"

    "So rich White people are producing Caucasian versions of Michael Brown ? So there is a lot of White male thugs out there who’s father is a doctor or a lawyer for example?"

    Yes, there are white versions of Michael Brown. And their fathers are usually small business owners, rich tradesmen who have others working for them, police/fire chiefs, educrats - rather than doctors / lawyers / engineers.

    Yes, there are white versions of Michael Brown. And their fathers are usually small business owners, rich tradesmen who have others working for them, police/fire chiefs, educrats – rather than doctors / lawyers / engineers.

    Yes, but the question was not whether there are “White versions of Michael Brown.” The question was about how many:

    So there is a lot of White male thugs out there who’s father is a doctor or a lawyer for example?

  36. “I think Steve was referring to Alexandria, Egypt and Naples, Italy. Hence Mediterranean”

    Most Egyptians are not Mediterranean. Your average Egyptian looks closer in phenotype to someone from Yemen than they do to someone from Italy or France.

    Even Israelis look Whiter/more Mediterranean than Egyptians.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Even Israelis look Whiter/more Mediterranean than Egyptians.
     
    Well, for that matter, lots of Israelis are Northern European in appearance.
    , @Peter Akuleyev
    For the most part, France is not a Mediterranean country either. Most of the political and economic power is in places like Paris, Lyon, Normandy, Burgundy, etc. whose inhabitants are descended from Celts/Gauls, and German invaders (the Franks). At a genetic level there is not much difference between the French and the English. France is quickly becoming a Mediterranean country, due to immigration, but that is another story...
    , @Anonymous
    "Israeli" is a problematic term for describing ethnicity. A bit less than half of the population is Ashkenazi. The remainder are Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews. Of the latter, the Yemeni Jews are on average the darkest, perhaps reflecting the finding that they are genetically closer to south Arab populations than other Jewish populations. Ashkenazim are an admixture of Levantine and southern European. Not unsurprisingly, they are somewhat paler on average than the Mizrahi Jews.
  37. Egyptians have more Sub Saharan African admixture than Israelis.

  38. White parents who send their kids to Catholic school in Philly (and probably Cleveland, Cincinnati, and other cities on that list) tend to be high-prole middle class types who just want their kids to avoid poor blacks. There are some very elite Catholic high schools in Philly with average SAT’s in the 1200-1300 ranges, but most Catholic schools have average SAT’s only around 1000.

    • Replies: @Renault
    Old East Coast cities always have at least a few elite Catholic schools, schools that more closely resemble elite WASPy/non-denominational private schools than their non-elite parochial brethren.

    For fun, here are some good NYC Catholic schools: Regis (the best Catholic school in the entire country, right up there with fancy NYC schools like Collegiate and Dalton), Xavier, Loyola, Sacred Heart or Marymount for girls

    Some good NYC suburb Catholic schools: Delbarton for NJ, Chaminade for Long Island, Fairfield Prep for CT
    , @Art Deco
    tend to be high-prole middle class types who just want their kids to avoid poor blacks.

    I'll wager you they do not give a damn about the economic circumstances of other kids in the district schools. They do not want their children around bullies and delinquents.
  39. Fresno Metro must include not just Fresno Unified School District, but also Clovis Unified (North-North-East, much whiter than Fresno as a whole) and Central Unified (West-North-West, somewhat whiter than Fresno as a whole). In addition, Fresno Unified has an actual IQ-based GATE elementary school and decent IQ-based middle and high school programs. There are some awful classrooms in Fresno, but overall the public system can serve a wide range of needs.

    Of course, it remains to be seen whether this system can survive Common Core.

  40. Most Egyptians are not Mediterranean. Your average Egyptian looks closer in phenotype to someone from Yemen than they do to someone from Italy or France.

    I hope you’re not comparing someone from Abu Simbel to someone from Calais. In any case, Egyptians are Southern Arabs, and a good proportion of them do look like someone from Yemen. But a good proportion also look Mediterreanean, particularly the ones of that coast.

    Even Israelis look Whiter/more Mediterranean than Egyptians.

    Israelis look like Northern Arabs (Syria, Lebanon), who are pretty much 100% Mediterranean.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Egyptians are predominantly a mixture of southern Arab, indigenous North African, and sub-Saharan. They are not pure southern Arabs. The degree of sub-Saharan admixture increases the farther south one travels within the country.
  41. @Jack
    White parents who send their kids to Catholic school in Philly (and probably Cleveland, Cincinnati, and other cities on that list) tend to be high-prole middle class types who just want their kids to avoid poor blacks. There are some very elite Catholic high schools in Philly with average SAT's in the 1200-1300 ranges, but most Catholic schools have average SAT's only around 1000.

    Old East Coast cities always have at least a few elite Catholic schools, schools that more closely resemble elite WASPy/non-denominational private schools than their non-elite parochial brethren.

    For fun, here are some good NYC Catholic schools: Regis (the best Catholic school in the entire country, right up there with fancy NYC schools like Collegiate and Dalton), Xavier, Loyola, Sacred Heart or Marymount for girls

    Some good NYC suburb Catholic schools: Delbarton for NJ, Chaminade for Long Island, Fairfield Prep for CT

    • Replies: @Jesuit boy
    In Catholic parlance, "elite" means Jesuit. All of the boy's schools you mention but Delbarton (of which I had never heard) are Jesuit. From East coast to West and in-between, the best Catholic boy's schools have always been Jesuit run. The Benedictines are very much Johnny come latelies in the USA, and few of their schools match the Jebbies academically, although a few (like Portsmouth Priory in Rhode Island and the St Louis Priory School in Missouri) are socially very much in the running.
    None of the other Order run schools come close, except for the occasional local exception like Christian Brother's College in St Louis (which, let it be noted, is an establishment of the French Christian Brothers, not the notorious - and lower class - Irish ones).
    The Jesuits, in sum, may have lost the Faith, but they still know how to educate the Catholic elite, both actual and potential.
  42. Common Core = Common Bore

  43. @Jefferson
    "I think Steve was referring to Alexandria, Egypt and Naples, Italy. Hence Mediterranean"

    Most Egyptians are not Mediterranean. Your average Egyptian looks closer in phenotype to someone from Yemen than they do to someone from Italy or France.

    Even Israelis look Whiter/more Mediterranean than Egyptians.

    Even Israelis look Whiter/more Mediterranean than Egyptians.

    Well, for that matter, lots of Israelis are Northern European in appearance.

  44. “But a good proportion also look Mediterreanean, particularly the ones of that coast.”

    There is not enough Mediterranean phenotypes in Egypt to get that country out of 3rd world toilet status.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

    No doubt Egypt is poor because the majority of it’s population have Nonwhite phenotypes that would look alien in Southern Europe.

  45. Mike P.,

    Nearly every high school in Utah (and in high-Mormon-population areas of Idaho, AZ, WA, WY, etc.) has an LDS Seminary building adjacent to it. No need to bus kids from seminary to school; the schools let them out for one class period so they can walk across the street for religious classes.

    The point remains, though: Mormon-majority schools are so suffused by LDS culture that Mormons are less likely to do private school or home school than similarly religious Christians are. Outside of the Mormon Corridor, however, where I live, lots of Mormons are turning to homeschooling. Private school isn’t a reasonable option when you have 4-7 kids…

  46. Something I never understood until I moved to L.A. was the conservative establishment’s obsession with “school choice.” Los Angeles cracked the code for me: A substantial number of conservative intellectuals live in dense metro areas where local school districts are hit or miss, so getting your kids into the “right” school (whether public or private) is a major obsession for parents who invest heavily in their children’s upbringing.

    The conservative establishment has never really grasped how strange this whole debate sounds to folks out in flyover country. It’s not that they agree or disagree; they just find the entire debate to be very alien to their experience, so they have a hard time getting passionate about it.

    In most of flyover country, local public schools provide an adequate if unexceptional education for about 90 percent of students. Private schools and homeschooling are mostly geared to extremely religious families. Even highly gifted children are usually well-served by public schools, since (in my experience) gifted kids in flyover country can usually tap into a local network of volunteers to help further develop their talents. (When I was a newspaper reporter, I once did a story on a local kid who was a music prodigy. He wasn’t enrolled in any special programs — a local music teacher actually came out of retirement to personally tutor him. For free. Try finding THAT in Manhattan!)

    In my hometown, I remember there was exactly one snooty, expensive private school — even though it had the smallest student body, it was the only school that had its own private swimming pool. But even that school mainly catered just to status-seeking social climbers — the vast majority of local rich folks were content to send their kids to the local public schools. Then I moved to L.A., and it seemed like every family with enough money to afford it sent their kids to private school. Me and my wife met modest middle-class couples who would NEVER have considered private school if they’d lived back in the South, but were scrimping and saving to afford private school tuition in L.A.

    It was very odd. But it finally made clear to me why sheltered conservative intellectuals are forever thinking that “school choice” and blistering attacks on teacher’s unions are some groundbreaking strategy that will somehow sweep them to victory across the country. They’re simply generalizing from their local circumstances. I doubt your typical Heritage Foundation staffer would know that he or she is probably to the LEFT of the typical teacher’s union member in small-town Tennessee.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev

    In most of flyover country, local public schools provide an adequate if unexceptional education for about 90 percent of students.
     
    True, good post. Same was true in New Hampshire when I was growing up. Private schools were for out of state kids, we had adequate to very good public schools in our towns, and my teachers ranged from hippie to radical leftist to libertarian to religious conservative, a greater diversity of political views than I found in college or probably would have found in the Exeter/St. Paul world. It was also well known that abuse of hard drugs was more common in the private schools than in the public schools. The correlation between immigration into a community and the sudden desirability of private schools seems pretty obvious. You can see it in Europe where previously private schools were just for toffs or social climbers, but now any self-respecting upper middle class parent is desperate to get their children into schools were their native language might actually be spoken by the other children. As a result private schools are now in huge demand.
    , @Art Deco
    Mr. Blank does not get that the most vigorous and ardent proponents of 'school choice' are cultural dissidents who are not too impressed with the fare peddled by government schools in flyover country either. Mr. Blank also does not appreciate the libertarian objection to having a state monopoly provide services that can be vended on the open market.
  47. Remember the military academies? Though never prevalent, there were still many military schools throughout the US. I know a few still survive today, but both the number of these schools and the enrollments at the surviving schools are deeply down. The post Vietnam era decimated them. There was a time when elite kids like Donald Trump went to military schools.

  48. If you have special-needs children, including profoundly gifted, you would also be in favour of school choice.

  49. @Jefferson
    "I think Steve was referring to Alexandria, Egypt and Naples, Italy. Hence Mediterranean"

    Most Egyptians are not Mediterranean. Your average Egyptian looks closer in phenotype to someone from Yemen than they do to someone from Italy or France.

    Even Israelis look Whiter/more Mediterranean than Egyptians.

    For the most part, France is not a Mediterranean country either. Most of the political and economic power is in places like Paris, Lyon, Normandy, Burgundy, etc. whose inhabitants are descended from Celts/Gauls, and German invaders (the Franks). At a genetic level there is not much difference between the French and the English. France is quickly becoming a Mediterranean country, due to immigration, but that is another story…

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    For the most part, France is not a Mediterranean country either.

    The 2d and 3d ranking cities in France are Marseille and Lyon (who have a population that is almost precisely the same). Marseille is on the Mediterranean. So is Genoa. Venice is on the Adriatic. Turin is proximate to the Mediterranean. Tell the Northern League what you fancy of these places.

    France is quickly becoming a Mediterranean country, due to immigration, but that is another story…

    There is this part of France called the Occitan and the Cote d'Azur. That aside, the immigrant Muslim population amounts to 6% of the total per Pew and 10% per other sources. North of 80% of the population is French without qualification and 20% of the immigrants are from non-Mediterranean Europe.

    France is one of the few European countries which has had a successful fertility recovery. There is no story.
  50. @Mr. Blank
    Something I never understood until I moved to L.A. was the conservative establishment's obsession with "school choice." Los Angeles cracked the code for me: A substantial number of conservative intellectuals live in dense metro areas where local school districts are hit or miss, so getting your kids into the "right" school (whether public or private) is a major obsession for parents who invest heavily in their children's upbringing.

    The conservative establishment has never really grasped how strange this whole debate sounds to folks out in flyover country. It's not that they agree or disagree; they just find the entire debate to be very alien to their experience, so they have a hard time getting passionate about it.

    In most of flyover country, local public schools provide an adequate if unexceptional education for about 90 percent of students. Private schools and homeschooling are mostly geared to extremely religious families. Even highly gifted children are usually well-served by public schools, since (in my experience) gifted kids in flyover country can usually tap into a local network of volunteers to help further develop their talents. (When I was a newspaper reporter, I once did a story on a local kid who was a music prodigy. He wasn't enrolled in any special programs -- a local music teacher actually came out of retirement to personally tutor him. For free. Try finding THAT in Manhattan!)

    In my hometown, I remember there was exactly one snooty, expensive private school -- even though it had the smallest student body, it was the only school that had its own private swimming pool. But even that school mainly catered just to status-seeking social climbers -- the vast majority of local rich folks were content to send their kids to the local public schools. Then I moved to L.A., and it seemed like every family with enough money to afford it sent their kids to private school. Me and my wife met modest middle-class couples who would NEVER have considered private school if they'd lived back in the South, but were scrimping and saving to afford private school tuition in L.A.

    It was very odd. But it finally made clear to me why sheltered conservative intellectuals are forever thinking that "school choice" and blistering attacks on teacher's unions are some groundbreaking strategy that will somehow sweep them to victory across the country. They're simply generalizing from their local circumstances. I doubt your typical Heritage Foundation staffer would know that he or she is probably to the LEFT of the typical teacher's union member in small-town Tennessee.

    In most of flyover country, local public schools provide an adequate if unexceptional education for about 90 percent of students.

    True, good post. Same was true in New Hampshire when I was growing up. Private schools were for out of state kids, we had adequate to very good public schools in our towns, and my teachers ranged from hippie to radical leftist to libertarian to religious conservative, a greater diversity of political views than I found in college or probably would have found in the Exeter/St. Paul world. It was also well known that abuse of hard drugs was more common in the private schools than in the public schools. The correlation between immigration into a community and the sudden desirability of private schools seems pretty obvious. You can see it in Europe where previously private schools were just for toffs or social climbers, but now any self-respecting upper middle class parent is desperate to get their children into schools were their native language might actually be spoken by the other children. As a result private schools are now in huge demand.

  51. Why is New Jersey so well represented on the “Upscale Neighborhoods Where Kids Go to Public Schools ” and why are all of those areas not on the top ten metro areas sending kids to private schools? At least part of the answer is that New Jersey has more school districts than it has municipalities and, well, you don’t bus kids across school district lines. Thus you can have a very unappealing urban area in the middle of nice upscale suburbs and the kids don’ t mix in school. In New Jersey, what you are often buying is a school district as much as a house. You might find this report from the Thomas B. Fordham Institute called “America’s Private Public Schools” (which is about public schools where the students are upscale enough that it’s like sending your kids to a private school) informative:

    http://edexcellence.net/publications/americas-private-public.html

    None of this if because of racism, of course, because enlightened blue-state voters in the Northeast are absolutely positively not as racists as those awful racist Republican Southerners and the fact that blue-state liberals don’t send their kids to schools with many poor black people is entirely coincidental and unintentional.

    (That’s sarcasm, of course.)

    • Replies: @roadrunner
    08536 is Plainsboro, very Asian. They dont send their kids to private schools.

    07028 is Glen Ridge (basically Montclair). True liberal believers, even though you can see Newark from the top of the hill.
  52. The Catholic schools around metro Boston experienced a boom when busing started in the 70s. My freshman year tuition was $250, but by my senior year it was $750. What worked well for the schools was dumbing down the entrance exam, accepting the extra white kids from the Southie/Dorchester axis, collecting the tuition, then flunking them out.

    When the priest abuse scandal hit the Boston Archdiocese, the church hierarchy, led by the execrable Bernard Cardinal Law, began milking the schools for funds. Most of the schools left the diocese and became independent Catholic institutions. The weak sisters closed and the remaining schools are as strong as ever; the Catholic elementary school in my city accepts only half of its applicants. My old high school is doing so well (thanks to Boston Magazine calling it the best bang-for-the-buck Catholic/private school in the metro area a couple years ago) that they’re adding a middle school.

    Steve, I can’t speak to your experience in Greater Los Angeles, but I went to Catholic high school with 3 Jewish kids and a couple dozen Protestants, as well as 4 fairly intelligent blacks, one of whom became a friend. The non-Catholic kids didn’t have to go to weekly Mass, but they had to take the religion classes. It was a more open-minded age, the 70s.

    There was a hue and cry in my city two weeks ago when the public school administration here announced that 18% of last year’s middle school graduates were not going to the local high school, but instead attending the local Catholic/private schools. The local SWPLs immediately began castigating their neighbors in the press for not supporting public education. Left unsaid were the effects of the METCO program, which brings 125 minority students from Boston into the city’s schools, and the rapid growth of Section 8 “families” in town.

    The high school has gone from a Top 50 institution (and in Massachusetts that’s a feather in your cap) to outside the top 100 in 5 years, and the very students you want are being skimmed off the top. To riff on one of your earlier posts, the local schools don’t need better teachers, they need better students.

  53. @Mr. Blank
    Something I never understood until I moved to L.A. was the conservative establishment's obsession with "school choice." Los Angeles cracked the code for me: A substantial number of conservative intellectuals live in dense metro areas where local school districts are hit or miss, so getting your kids into the "right" school (whether public or private) is a major obsession for parents who invest heavily in their children's upbringing.

    The conservative establishment has never really grasped how strange this whole debate sounds to folks out in flyover country. It's not that they agree or disagree; they just find the entire debate to be very alien to their experience, so they have a hard time getting passionate about it.

    In most of flyover country, local public schools provide an adequate if unexceptional education for about 90 percent of students. Private schools and homeschooling are mostly geared to extremely religious families. Even highly gifted children are usually well-served by public schools, since (in my experience) gifted kids in flyover country can usually tap into a local network of volunteers to help further develop their talents. (When I was a newspaper reporter, I once did a story on a local kid who was a music prodigy. He wasn't enrolled in any special programs -- a local music teacher actually came out of retirement to personally tutor him. For free. Try finding THAT in Manhattan!)

    In my hometown, I remember there was exactly one snooty, expensive private school -- even though it had the smallest student body, it was the only school that had its own private swimming pool. But even that school mainly catered just to status-seeking social climbers -- the vast majority of local rich folks were content to send their kids to the local public schools. Then I moved to L.A., and it seemed like every family with enough money to afford it sent their kids to private school. Me and my wife met modest middle-class couples who would NEVER have considered private school if they'd lived back in the South, but were scrimping and saving to afford private school tuition in L.A.

    It was very odd. But it finally made clear to me why sheltered conservative intellectuals are forever thinking that "school choice" and blistering attacks on teacher's unions are some groundbreaking strategy that will somehow sweep them to victory across the country. They're simply generalizing from their local circumstances. I doubt your typical Heritage Foundation staffer would know that he or she is probably to the LEFT of the typical teacher's union member in small-town Tennessee.

    Mr. Blank does not get that the most vigorous and ardent proponents of ‘school choice’ are cultural dissidents who are not too impressed with the fare peddled by government schools in flyover country either. Mr. Blank also does not appreciate the libertarian objection to having a state monopoly provide services that can be vended on the open market.

    • Replies: @GW
    It is a myth that public schools are not susceptible to market forces. Particularly in "flyover country", adjacent school districts must compete against one another for students (and thus funding). The Midwestern county I grew up in has six school districts ranging from small to (relatively) large, and two private religious schools (one Evangelical, one Catholic) all within twenty minutes of one another. Each looks to promote its extracurricular activities, upgrade its buildings and facilities, boast about its educational opportunities, etc.

    This gets to the point Mr. Blank is making. If a school district can't control the demands of its teachers union for instance, middle-class parents in middle America will just relocate their kids to the next suburb. This, among other demographic reasons, makes these public schools very amenable to the demands of parents.
  54. @Langley
    In Honolulu Asian and Haole families send their children to private schools. Haoles go to Puahau, Asians to Iolani. I went to Maryknol. My dad was the last Haole to go to Iolani.

    The dean of the University of Hawaii's Department of Education told me he would shut down private schools if he could. He said that Asian parents sending their children to private schools had a negative impact on government schools. He said Asians did this because they wanted to be White (Haole).

    We do not have many Blacks in Hawaii. We do have "Beat up Haole day." A Local tradition.

    (OK - I exaggerated a little)

    The dean of the University of Hawaii’s Department of Education told me he would shut down private schools if he could.

    One reason, among many others, to fire the teacher training faculty. Fish out a few who are competent tests-and-measurements psychologists and a very few who might teach public administration to someone’s benefit and can the rest. The only thing they do is make a facility for rent seeking and the production of humbug and bad policy.

  55. @Jack
    White parents who send their kids to Catholic school in Philly (and probably Cleveland, Cincinnati, and other cities on that list) tend to be high-prole middle class types who just want their kids to avoid poor blacks. There are some very elite Catholic high schools in Philly with average SAT's in the 1200-1300 ranges, but most Catholic schools have average SAT's only around 1000.

    tend to be high-prole middle class types who just want their kids to avoid poor blacks.

    I’ll wager you they do not give a damn about the economic circumstances of other kids in the district schools. They do not want their children around bullies and delinquents.

  56. Egyptians have more Sub Saharan African admixture than Israelis.

    Most of the time, Sub-Saharan African admixture in Muslims and Middle Easterners tends to be <10% (around single digits) and it's mostly from black females (since black men were castrated during the Arab slave trade).

  57. Wilmington, DE resident, and father of a private-school 2nd grader, here. Here’s the story: Wilmington’s upper crust (think: DuPonts) founded a bunch of high-end private schools a century and more ago, and the choices for people with upper-middle class or more money (ex the hard-core religious) are either those private schools or moving to nearby Chester County, PA, which is MUCH whiter, more exurban/rural, and has public schools that wouldn’t be out of place in ’s description of flyover country. Property taxes are higher than in DE, but decent schools come bundled with your granite countertops. Catholic schools run the gamut from Archmere (Joe Biden’s alma mater) to much prolier; the prolier ones are on the ropes, financially, as the Italians and Irish abandon the faith and the incoming Guatemalans and Mexicans aren’t rich enough to support the institutions.

    Public schools near Wilmington are mostly horrifying. When the courts ordered desegregation in the late 70s, after white flight had emptied the city and turned the city school district nearly all black and the suburban districts almost all white, the powers that be re-districted the metro area into four districts and made sure that each one got a big slice of city/ghetto. (Compare Chester County solution: The courts didn’t seem to think they could order PA residents to comply with a DE desegregation plan; I’m sure they’d change their minds today if the right plaintiffs asked.) Some of that has been walked back with “neighborhood schools” and charters and such, but my district’s busing plan for my (blonde-haired, blue-eyed) daughter involved her never being in a white-plurality school, spending 3rd-5th grades at a 98% black school in the hood (which I won’t drive past on the street without a pistol on my hip), and going to high school at a majority-black school that gets in the news mostly for (i) stupid zero tolerance decisions on white kids, (ii) human interest stories that make you go “ugh!”, and (iii) occasionally a white kid getting beaten badly enough to be hospitalized. (Low-level whitey-beatings are, per a friend who teaches there, a daily occurrence; said friend is trying to get a new job in a district in either PA or Cecil County, MD, which is also much whiter and more rural.)

    We are hard-core religious and chose accordingly. Our daughter goes to a classical Christian school that is about 15% black (roughly the same as the general population locally) and nevertheless has average SAT scores in the 1200s, comparable to the upper crust private schools at a third of the cost. How? (1) Selection effect — the school selects for demonstrated conservative religious commitment, which tends to weed out the chaotic and dysfunctional, as well as the liberals; (2) Tight discipline, including academic discipline — my daughter has in three years been in class with three kids (one white, one black, one Hispanic) who have had to repeat a grade; and (3) lots of South Korean exchange students in the upper grades to bend the curve. I feel a little bad about that last piece, but being 30% non-white seems to keep the diversity commissars away, at least for now. We’ll see what happens when they decide to bring World War G to private schools.

  58. @Peter Akuleyev
    For the most part, France is not a Mediterranean country either. Most of the political and economic power is in places like Paris, Lyon, Normandy, Burgundy, etc. whose inhabitants are descended from Celts/Gauls, and German invaders (the Franks). At a genetic level there is not much difference between the French and the English. France is quickly becoming a Mediterranean country, due to immigration, but that is another story...

    For the most part, France is not a Mediterranean country either.

    The 2d and 3d ranking cities in France are Marseille and Lyon (who have a population that is almost precisely the same). Marseille is on the Mediterranean. So is Genoa. Venice is on the Adriatic. Turin is proximate to the Mediterranean. Tell the Northern League what you fancy of these places.

    France is quickly becoming a Mediterranean country, due to immigration, but that is another story…

    There is this part of France called the Occitan and the Cote d’Azur. That aside, the immigrant Muslim population amounts to 6% of the total per Pew and 10% per other sources. North of 80% of the population is French without qualification and 20% of the immigrants are from non-Mediterranean Europe.

    France is one of the few European countries which has had a successful fertility recovery. There is no story.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    What exactly is your point? Marseille is a Provencal city that only joined France in the late 15th century. The dominant culture of France was formed around the Ile-de-France, and to this day France is essentially an Atlantic nation. France is simply not Mediterranean, just as the US is not a Caribbean nation despite having territories that are clearly Caribbean.

    Genoa, Venice, and Turin are not in France, as you must know. Are you trying to claim that some Mediterranean cities enjoy very high cultural status? I wouldn't disagree, and you could add Barcelona and Triest. Le Havre is a dump, so is Liverpool, for that matter. The question of Mediterranean or not is simply geographic and historical, not a judgement.
  59. @Steve Sailer
    The police department of New Orleans pre-Katrina was terrible, too. One of the great old New Yorker writers like Liebling said that New Orleans was a cultural outpost of the Mediterranean.

    You don't have honest police departments or good public schools in Alexandria or Naples, so why expect them in New Orleans.

    I got widely denounced for pointing out that, according to statistics of how blacks were doing in different places around the country, a local culture of "Laissez les bons temps rouler!" didn't seem to suit blacks well. They tended to do better in conservative Protestant places like Texas and Georgia than in New Orleans.

    But Cajuns themselves don’t seem to be much of a problem. I went to High School in Vicksburg, Mississippi and there were a lot of Cajun towns on the other side of the Mississippi. The people there were very friendly although very difficult to understand. They may not have been highly intellectual but they didn’t seem pathological.

  60. @Alcestic Eshtemoa

    “Middle Eastern” (or MENA, and the like) is not a useful label when discussing genetics, and North Africans are a whole different thing from, say, Levantines. While there are many Egyptians with >10% SSA admixture (Dina Powell seems like a particularly good example), Egyptians as a whole definitely have way more than that. Just look at some crowd photos.

    France is a pretty Mediterranean country, though a lot of it is non-Mediterranean, of course. But the Med and non-Med populations of France are more closely related to each other than the French Mediterraneans are to most of the immigrants you mention from the African side of the Med. For example, those from Morrocco, which is also, IIRC, the MENA nation with the highest percentage of SSA admixture.

  61. @Dr. Evil
    "“Unfortunately, a good many rich whites aren’t revolted by thugs either. Especially when the thugs happen to be their own children. ”"

    "So rich White people are producing Caucasian versions of Michael Brown ? So there is a lot of White male thugs out there who’s father is a doctor or a lawyer for example?"

    Yes, there are white versions of Michael Brown. And their fathers are usually small business owners, rich tradesmen who have others working for them, police/fire chiefs, educrats - rather than doctors / lawyers / engineers.

    The teenage children of prison guards are always “model citizens”. Just ask anyone not related to a prison guard in Crescent City CA.

  62. @Art Deco
    Mr. Blank does not get that the most vigorous and ardent proponents of 'school choice' are cultural dissidents who are not too impressed with the fare peddled by government schools in flyover country either. Mr. Blank also does not appreciate the libertarian objection to having a state monopoly provide services that can be vended on the open market.

    It is a myth that public schools are not susceptible to market forces. Particularly in “flyover country”, adjacent school districts must compete against one another for students (and thus funding). The Midwestern county I grew up in has six school districts ranging from small to (relatively) large, and two private religious schools (one Evangelical, one Catholic) all within twenty minutes of one another. Each looks to promote its extracurricular activities, upgrade its buildings and facilities, boast about its educational opportunities, etc.

    This gets to the point Mr. Blank is making. If a school district can’t control the demands of its teachers union for instance, middle-class parents in middle America will just relocate their kids to the next suburb. This, among other demographic reasons, makes these public schools very amenable to the demands of parents.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "It is a myth that public schools are not susceptible to market forces."

    Unless the school district is so big that it doesn't have much competition: LAUSD being the classic example. Burbank, Glendale, Pasadena, Santa Monica, Culver City, even Long Beach see their school districts as competing with LAUSD, but LAUSD, which sprawls across an immense area doesn't much see itself as competing for families who care about their kids' education with its smaller neighbors.

  63. @Renault
    Old East Coast cities always have at least a few elite Catholic schools, schools that more closely resemble elite WASPy/non-denominational private schools than their non-elite parochial brethren.

    For fun, here are some good NYC Catholic schools: Regis (the best Catholic school in the entire country, right up there with fancy NYC schools like Collegiate and Dalton), Xavier, Loyola, Sacred Heart or Marymount for girls

    Some good NYC suburb Catholic schools: Delbarton for NJ, Chaminade for Long Island, Fairfield Prep for CT

    In Catholic parlance, “elite” means Jesuit. All of the boy’s schools you mention but Delbarton (of which I had never heard) are Jesuit. From East coast to West and in-between, the best Catholic boy’s schools have always been Jesuit run. The Benedictines are very much Johnny come latelies in the USA, and few of their schools match the Jebbies academically, although a few (like Portsmouth Priory in Rhode Island and the St Louis Priory School in Missouri) are socially very much in the running.
    None of the other Order run schools come close, except for the occasional local exception like Christian Brother’s College in St Louis (which, let it be noted, is an establishment of the French Christian Brothers, not the notorious – and lower class – Irish ones).
    The Jesuits, in sum, may have lost the Faith, but they still know how to educate the Catholic elite, both actual and potential.

  64. @Art Deco
    For the most part, France is not a Mediterranean country either.

    The 2d and 3d ranking cities in France are Marseille and Lyon (who have a population that is almost precisely the same). Marseille is on the Mediterranean. So is Genoa. Venice is on the Adriatic. Turin is proximate to the Mediterranean. Tell the Northern League what you fancy of these places.

    France is quickly becoming a Mediterranean country, due to immigration, but that is another story…

    There is this part of France called the Occitan and the Cote d'Azur. That aside, the immigrant Muslim population amounts to 6% of the total per Pew and 10% per other sources. North of 80% of the population is French without qualification and 20% of the immigrants are from non-Mediterranean Europe.

    France is one of the few European countries which has had a successful fertility recovery. There is no story.

    What exactly is your point? Marseille is a Provencal city that only joined France in the late 15th century. The dominant culture of France was formed around the Ile-de-France, and to this day France is essentially an Atlantic nation. France is simply not Mediterranean, just as the US is not a Caribbean nation despite having territories that are clearly Caribbean.

    Genoa, Venice, and Turin are not in France, as you must know. Are you trying to claim that some Mediterranean cities enjoy very high cultural status? I wouldn’t disagree, and you could add Barcelona and Triest. Le Havre is a dump, so is Liverpool, for that matter. The question of Mediterranean or not is simply geographic and historical, not a judgement.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I am pointing out the obvious.

    1. France has a large Mediterranean component (which you acknowledge and deny in one breath).

    2. The distinction you are making is factitious. Affluent and orderly Northern Italy is also Mediterranean.
  65. “Most of the time, Sub-Saharan African admixture in Muslims and Middle Easterners tends to be <10% (around single digits) and it's mostly from black females (since black men were castrated during the Arab slave trade)."

    That 10 percent Sub Saharan African admixture was enough to drastically change the phenotype of the average Egyptian since the average Egyptian does not look White to European eyes. The average Egyptian looks Brown to European eyes.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    There are a lot of differences in Egyptians. Omar Sharif could play Dr. Zhivago, but Anwar Sadat was played in a biopic by Lou Gossett Jr. The one time I met Mayor Tom Bradley of L.A. back in 1981, I was struck by how much he resembled pictures in the newspapers of Sadat. I think Sadat's mother was from Sudan, so he was blacker than most Egyptians.
  66. “For the most part, France is not a Mediterranean country either. Most of the political and economic power is in places like Paris, Lyon, Normandy, Burgundy, etc. whose inhabitants are descended from Celts/Gauls, and German invaders (the Franks). At a genetic level there is not much difference between the French and the English”

    That would explain why the average French descendent Cajun in Louisiana has a Northern European looking phenotype. Before I traveled to Cajun country, I thought the average Louisiana Cajun would be “darker”, but most of them have a WASP looking appearance.

    I originally thought the average Louisiana French Cajun would have a similar looking phenotype as this guy for example.

    But I overestimated the Mediterranean influence of the French people and their diaspora population in Louisiana and Quebec.

  67. @Jefferson
    "Most of the time, Sub-Saharan African admixture in Muslims and Middle Easterners tends to be <10% (around single digits) and it's mostly from black females (since black men were castrated during the Arab slave trade)."

    That 10 percent Sub Saharan African admixture was enough to drastically change the phenotype of the average Egyptian since the average Egyptian does not look White to European eyes. The average Egyptian looks Brown to European eyes.

    There are a lot of differences in Egyptians. Omar Sharif could play Dr. Zhivago, but Anwar Sadat was played in a biopic by Lou Gossett Jr. The one time I met Mayor Tom Bradley of L.A. back in 1981, I was struck by how much he resembled pictures in the newspapers of Sadat. I think Sadat’s mother was from Sudan, so he was blacker than most Egyptians.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    There are a lot of differences in Egyptians. Omar Sharif could play Dr. Zhivago, but Anwar Sadat was played in a biopic by Lou Gossett Jr.
     
    Omar Sharif also played a German officer in NIGHT OF THE GENERALS.
    , @HA
    Omar Sharif's father was Lebanese and he himself was raised as a Melkite Greek Catholic. If his mother was not also Lebanese, I would guess that she was a Copt as opposed to an Arab. Either way, one can hardly be more Mediterranean than that.

    Anwar Sadat's father was from Southern Egypt while his mother was at least half-Sudanese.

  68. @Peter Akuleyev
    What exactly is your point? Marseille is a Provencal city that only joined France in the late 15th century. The dominant culture of France was formed around the Ile-de-France, and to this day France is essentially an Atlantic nation. France is simply not Mediterranean, just as the US is not a Caribbean nation despite having territories that are clearly Caribbean.

    Genoa, Venice, and Turin are not in France, as you must know. Are you trying to claim that some Mediterranean cities enjoy very high cultural status? I wouldn't disagree, and you could add Barcelona and Triest. Le Havre is a dump, so is Liverpool, for that matter. The question of Mediterranean or not is simply geographic and historical, not a judgement.

    I am pointing out the obvious.

    1. France has a large Mediterranean component (which you acknowledge and deny in one breath).

    2. The distinction you are making is factitious. Affluent and orderly Northern Italy is also Mediterranean.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev

    Affluent and orderly Northern Italy is also Mediterranean.
     
    Again, your point being? We are talking geography and history, and Paris is obviously not Mediterranean. The "Mediterranean component" of the current state of France is basically Occitania, traditionally a very different region whose inhabitants didn't speak French until the 19th century, and which has more in common with Catalonia than it does with France. To this day Northern French have strong prejudices against the South of France, aka the Mediterranean component. I suppose if this were 1913 you would be telling everyone Austria is a Mediterranean culture because it includes Dalmatia and Istria.
  69. @Steve Sailer
    There are a lot of differences in Egyptians. Omar Sharif could play Dr. Zhivago, but Anwar Sadat was played in a biopic by Lou Gossett Jr. The one time I met Mayor Tom Bradley of L.A. back in 1981, I was struck by how much he resembled pictures in the newspapers of Sadat. I think Sadat's mother was from Sudan, so he was blacker than most Egyptians.

    There are a lot of differences in Egyptians. Omar Sharif could play Dr. Zhivago, but Anwar Sadat was played in a biopic by Lou Gossett Jr.

    Omar Sharif also played a German officer in NIGHT OF THE GENERALS.

  70. @Steve Sailer
    There are a lot of differences in Egyptians. Omar Sharif could play Dr. Zhivago, but Anwar Sadat was played in a biopic by Lou Gossett Jr. The one time I met Mayor Tom Bradley of L.A. back in 1981, I was struck by how much he resembled pictures in the newspapers of Sadat. I think Sadat's mother was from Sudan, so he was blacker than most Egyptians.

    Omar Sharif’s father was Lebanese and he himself was raised as a Melkite Greek Catholic. If his mother was not also Lebanese, I would guess that she was a Copt as opposed to an Arab. Either way, one can hardly be more Mediterranean than that.

    Anwar Sadat’s father was from Southern Egypt while his mother was at least half-Sudanese.

  71. @GW
    It is a myth that public schools are not susceptible to market forces. Particularly in "flyover country", adjacent school districts must compete against one another for students (and thus funding). The Midwestern county I grew up in has six school districts ranging from small to (relatively) large, and two private religious schools (one Evangelical, one Catholic) all within twenty minutes of one another. Each looks to promote its extracurricular activities, upgrade its buildings and facilities, boast about its educational opportunities, etc.

    This gets to the point Mr. Blank is making. If a school district can't control the demands of its teachers union for instance, middle-class parents in middle America will just relocate their kids to the next suburb. This, among other demographic reasons, makes these public schools very amenable to the demands of parents.

    “It is a myth that public schools are not susceptible to market forces.”

    Unless the school district is so big that it doesn’t have much competition: LAUSD being the classic example. Burbank, Glendale, Pasadena, Santa Monica, Culver City, even Long Beach see their school districts as competing with LAUSD, but LAUSD, which sprawls across an immense area doesn’t much see itself as competing for families who care about their kids’ education with its smaller neighbors.

    • Replies: @GW
    Hence the Middle-America/conservative establishment divide. The former, which make up a much larger % of the Republican voting bloc, don't get much worked up about it like the latter (who tend to appear on Fox/write for NR and thus speak for conservatives in general) do.
  72. It is a myth that public schools are not susceptible to market forces. Particularly in “flyover country”, adjacent school districts must compete against one another for students (and thus funding).

    Owner occupied housing typically turns over about once every eleven years. There are serious costs to arranging for your children to switch schools, costs they need not pay in an intelligently administered system.

    I’m bloody not interested in whether or not a particular institution is ‘responsive to market forces’. I am interested that there be ready alternatives among which parents can select. This is a problem both for slum populations and for small town and rural populations.

    State schooling in non-metropolitan zones can be quite stereotyped in New York both due to centrally administered standards and to the unit costs of setting up programs for small clientele. School boards actually do not have much discretion. State certification standards and public employee unions not only restrict entry to the teaching guild, they also provide a conduit for NCATE and the teacher training faculties to impose their fare on the public.

    Please note that the status of the school as a public agency and the social ideology promoted by the teacher training faculties effectively prevent schools from imposing reasonable behavioral standards.

  73. Non-Coptic Egyptians are not really very Arab, from what genetic studies show. The Arab invasion was limited in numbers, and a lot of the Muslim population of Egypt are (relatively speaking) recent converts, converted long after that. And since Copts don’t speak Coptic anymore, the Arab vs non-Arab dichotomy in Egypt is only valid in a traditional and religiously-motivated political sense nowadays.

    Coming back to SSA admix, it might be true (not sure, though) that in the North, Copts have less SSA admix than Muslims. But in the Egyptian South, closer to an indigenous SSA population, both Copts and Muslims show quite a bit of SSA influence.

    The Cajuns, Acadians and Quebecois are not the most Mediterranean people around, but they have plenty of Mediterranean phenotypes. A lot more Med than WASPs, that’s for sure. Not all Mediterranean phenotypes are the same, and a Med Frenchman more often than not is not going to look like someone from Sicily. Actually, speaking of Acadians and Cajuns, they’re heavily Basque in ancestry.

  74. And French Canadians (and their descendant in the US) have quite a bit of Irish in them. Several common French Canadian surnames are actually Irish, e.g. Bourque and Aubrey.

  75. I think Sadat’s mother was from Sudan, so he was blacker than most Egyptians.

    I wish I could remember where, but I recall reading an article years and years ago (mid-1990s, I would guess) that mentioned something about how many Egyptians disliked Sadat because they perceived him as “too African” looking (I think that was the phrase).

    It sticks in my mind because it was so at odds with what I’d been taught up to that point: that all of the world’s “minorities” were basically an undifferentiated mass that all thought exactly the same and all seethed with resentment against white people. I believe that was one of the first indications I remember from the mainstream media that some of these sainted minorities didn’t exactly embrace PC consensus.

  76. “Please note that the status of the school as a public agency and the social ideology promoted by the teacher training faculties effectively prevent schools from imposing reasonable behavioral standards.”

    Well, this would be funny except you’re serious. So it’s just stupid.

    No one is indoctrinated by teacher training. They go in believing that crap already, or they don’t. If they don’t, they just fake it to get through.

    And neither the teacher training facilities nor the teachers themselves prevent schools from imposing standards. The fear of disparate impact and a federal audit and “consent decree” leads the district to threaten the admins who threaten the teachers. Charters don’t have to worry about disparate impact. New Orleans is all charter and run their expulsions through a central office now. That’s going to be interesting to watch.

    “I am interested that there be ready alternatives among which parents can select. ”

    Then move. Choice is expensive and can’t scale. People who believe in small government should favor large schools over small. Push for deductible private school tuition.

    Steve, I believe LAUSD owns a lot of its charters, doesn’t it? Not all. But definitely, competition is an issue in LA.

    Also, on private schools: in many areas they are impossible to get into. But that tends to run in tandem with really good public schools. They’re drawing from the same demographic aft4er all.

  77. ” If a school district can’t control the demands of its teachers union for instance, middle-class parents in middle America will just relocate their kids to the next suburb. This, among other demographic reasons, makes these public schools very amenable to the demands of parents.”

    This, too, is just goofy. At least in my experience. Middle class parents in middle America relocate their kids to suburbs to get away from racial diversity.

    I’ve only ever seen middle class parents get annoyed at teachers when the teachers try to push heterogeneous classrooms on their kids. Of course, that only occurs in “diverse” schools, and the teachers are usually just a step or two ahead of the lawsuits that will come if they don’t stop tracking. So the parents move–but it’s not really the teachers, even then.

    You all seem to forget that teachers routinely are atop, or nearly so, the most respected occupations list. I’m not saying you should agree, just that many of you should remember to keep reality somewhere hovering around your head whilst opining on public education.

    • Replies: @GW
    A little subjunctive thinking would be great for you. Of course "teachers unions" don't cause parents in the burbs to relocate their kids, and in fact a majority of the problems associated with teachers unions stem from demographic issues anyway. But if say, the hypothetical Smithville District in Midwestern USA did start seeing its teachers go on strike for illogical demands like The Chicago teachers union did a few years back, you can bet the parents in Smithville would look to move to Elmdale or Ridgewood or Johnstown.

    Thus market forces in education are implicitly there for most middle and upper class Americans. Of course in most non-NAM communities, nothing as drastic as a teachers strike normally happens. But school districts which can offer more academic and athletic opportunities for instance tend to draw better quality students. I know this first-hand.
  78. @Art Deco
    I am pointing out the obvious.

    1. France has a large Mediterranean component (which you acknowledge and deny in one breath).

    2. The distinction you are making is factitious. Affluent and orderly Northern Italy is also Mediterranean.

    Affluent and orderly Northern Italy is also Mediterranean.

    Again, your point being? We are talking geography and history, and Paris is obviously not Mediterranean. The “Mediterranean component” of the current state of France is basically Occitania, traditionally a very different region whose inhabitants didn’t speak French until the 19th century, and which has more in common with Catalonia than it does with France. To this day Northern French have strong prejudices against the South of France, aka the Mediterranean component. I suppose if this were 1913 you would be telling everyone Austria is a Mediterranean culture because it includes Dalmatia and Istria.

    • Replies: @Curious Reader
    Sure, France is highly centralized, but that doesn't mean you can say "France" and only mean Paris. Occitania is a region of France and is included when you say "France", without specifying further, just as the many other regions of France. And Occitan vs French is way too simplistic, France was full of dialects/languages that were crushed with the goal of enforcing a strong, unified national language. There isn't some single, unified Frenchness, and then Occitania tacked on. France is a highly varied country (and in the past was much more so) with many varied regions that are nowadays integral parts of France.

    Austria had a Mediterranean component when it included Dalmatia and Istria. But the Austrian people were never Mediterranean, and Dalmatia and Istria weren't populated by people who ever considered themselves or were considered by others as Austrians. A better comparison here is France and Croatia, not France and Austria. What you are arguing is like saying that Croatia is not at all Mediterranean, because its political and economic centre (and its historical core for centuries) is not Mediterranean and is indeed populated by very different people than the ones in Dalmatia, who harbour prejudice towards Dalmatians (as the Dalmatians do towards them). Even such small countries are diverse and complex, let alone France.

  79. @Steve Sailer
    "It is a myth that public schools are not susceptible to market forces."

    Unless the school district is so big that it doesn't have much competition: LAUSD being the classic example. Burbank, Glendale, Pasadena, Santa Monica, Culver City, even Long Beach see their school districts as competing with LAUSD, but LAUSD, which sprawls across an immense area doesn't much see itself as competing for families who care about their kids' education with its smaller neighbors.

    Hence the Middle-America/conservative establishment divide. The former, which make up a much larger % of the Republican voting bloc, don’t get much worked up about it like the latter (who tend to appear on Fox/write for NR and thus speak for conservatives in general) do.

  80. @Education Realist
    " If a school district can’t control the demands of its teachers union for instance, middle-class parents in middle America will just relocate their kids to the next suburb. This, among other demographic reasons, makes these public schools very amenable to the demands of parents."

    This, too, is just goofy. At least in my experience. Middle class parents in middle America relocate their kids to suburbs to get away from racial diversity.

    I've only ever seen middle class parents get annoyed at teachers when the teachers try to push heterogeneous classrooms on their kids. Of course, that only occurs in "diverse" schools, and the teachers are usually just a step or two ahead of the lawsuits that will come if they don't stop tracking. So the parents move--but it's not really the teachers, even then.

    You all seem to forget that teachers routinely are atop, or nearly so, the most respected occupations list. I'm not saying you should agree, just that many of you should remember to keep reality somewhere hovering around your head whilst opining on public education.

    A little subjunctive thinking would be great for you. Of course “teachers unions” don’t cause parents in the burbs to relocate their kids, and in fact a majority of the problems associated with teachers unions stem from demographic issues anyway. But if say, the hypothetical Smithville District in Midwestern USA did start seeing its teachers go on strike for illogical demands like The Chicago teachers union did a few years back, you can bet the parents in Smithville would look to move to Elmdale or Ridgewood or Johnstown.

    Thus market forces in education are implicitly there for most middle and upper class Americans. Of course in most non-NAM communities, nothing as drastic as a teachers strike normally happens. But school districts which can offer more academic and athletic opportunities for instance tend to draw better quality students. I know this first-hand.

  81. @Peter Akuleyev

    Affluent and orderly Northern Italy is also Mediterranean.
     
    Again, your point being? We are talking geography and history, and Paris is obviously not Mediterranean. The "Mediterranean component" of the current state of France is basically Occitania, traditionally a very different region whose inhabitants didn't speak French until the 19th century, and which has more in common with Catalonia than it does with France. To this day Northern French have strong prejudices against the South of France, aka the Mediterranean component. I suppose if this were 1913 you would be telling everyone Austria is a Mediterranean culture because it includes Dalmatia and Istria.

    Sure, France is highly centralized, but that doesn’t mean you can say “France” and only mean Paris. Occitania is a region of France and is included when you say “France”, without specifying further, just as the many other regions of France. And Occitan vs French is way too simplistic, France was full of dialects/languages that were crushed with the goal of enforcing a strong, unified national language. There isn’t some single, unified Frenchness, and then Occitania tacked on. France is a highly varied country (and in the past was much more so) with many varied regions that are nowadays integral parts of France.

    Austria had a Mediterranean component when it included Dalmatia and Istria. But the Austrian people were never Mediterranean, and Dalmatia and Istria weren’t populated by people who ever considered themselves or were considered by others as Austrians. A better comparison here is France and Croatia, not France and Austria. What you are arguing is like saying that Croatia is not at all Mediterranean, because its political and economic centre (and its historical core for centuries) is not Mediterranean and is indeed populated by very different people than the ones in Dalmatia, who harbour prejudice towards Dalmatians (as the Dalmatians do towards them). Even such small countries are diverse and complex, let alone France.

  82. @AnonNJ
    Why is New Jersey so well represented on the "Upscale Neighborhoods Where Kids Go to Public Schools " and why are all of those areas not on the top ten metro areas sending kids to private schools? At least part of the answer is that New Jersey has more school districts than it has municipalities and, well, you don't bus kids across school district lines. Thus you can have a very unappealing urban area in the middle of nice upscale suburbs and the kids don' t mix in school. In New Jersey, what you are often buying is a school district as much as a house. You might find this report from the Thomas B. Fordham Institute called "America's Private Public Schools" (which is about public schools where the students are upscale enough that it's like sending your kids to a private school) informative:

    http://edexcellence.net/publications/americas-private-public.html

    None of this if because of racism, of course, because enlightened blue-state voters in the Northeast are absolutely positively not as racists as those awful racist Republican Southerners and the fact that blue-state liberals don't send their kids to schools with many poor black people is entirely coincidental and unintentional.

    (That's sarcasm, of course.)

    08536 is Plainsboro, very Asian. They dont send their kids to private schools.

    07028 is Glen Ridge (basically Montclair). True liberal believers, even though you can see Newark from the top of the hill.

  83. Irish: physically Nordic, culturally Mediterranean.
    Ashkenazi Jews: the reverse.

    • Replies: @Curious Reader
    Not really. Ashkenazi Jews are loud, rude and let's not forget Jewish mothers. Not saying they're culturally Mediterranean, but they sure aren't Nordic either.

    Irish or Irish-Americans? Don't know about the latter, but as someone kinda Mediterranean, I can say the Irish of Ireland never struck me as as similar to Mediterraneans. There might've been more similarities once, but in the 21st century, they're way too British-like for that. Constant queueuing and all. Though most of my time there was spent in urban Ireland, no idea what things are like in the more rural parts.
  84. @Dr. Evil
    Irish: physically Nordic, culturally Mediterranean.
    Ashkenazi Jews: the reverse.

    Not really. Ashkenazi Jews are loud, rude and let’s not forget Jewish mothers. Not saying they’re culturally Mediterranean, but they sure aren’t Nordic either.

    Irish or Irish-Americans? Don’t know about the latter, but as someone kinda Mediterranean, I can say the Irish of Ireland never struck me as as similar to Mediterraneans. There might’ve been more similarities once, but in the 21st century, they’re way too British-like for that. Constant queueuing and all. Though most of my time there was spent in urban Ireland, no idea what things are like in the more rural parts.

  85. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jefferson
    "I think Steve was referring to Alexandria, Egypt and Naples, Italy. Hence Mediterranean"

    Most Egyptians are not Mediterranean. Your average Egyptian looks closer in phenotype to someone from Yemen than they do to someone from Italy or France.

    Even Israelis look Whiter/more Mediterranean than Egyptians.

    “Israeli” is a problematic term for describing ethnicity. A bit less than half of the population is Ashkenazi. The remainder are Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews. Of the latter, the Yemeni Jews are on average the darkest, perhaps reflecting the finding that they are genetically closer to south Arab populations than other Jewish populations. Ashkenazim are an admixture of Levantine and southern European. Not unsurprisingly, they are somewhat paler on average than the Mizrahi Jews.

  86. @Dr. Evil
    Most Egyptians are not Mediterranean. Your average Egyptian looks closer in phenotype to someone from Yemen than they do to someone from Italy or France.

    I hope you're not comparing someone from Abu Simbel to someone from Calais. In any case, Egyptians are Southern Arabs, and a good proportion of them do look like someone from Yemen. But a good proportion also look Mediterreanean, particularly the ones of that coast.

    Even Israelis look Whiter/more Mediterranean than Egyptians.

    Israelis look like Northern Arabs (Syria, Lebanon), who are pretty much 100% Mediterranean.

    Egyptians are predominantly a mixture of southern Arab, indigenous North African, and sub-Saharan. They are not pure southern Arabs. The degree of sub-Saharan admixture increases the farther south one travels within the country.

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