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From Politico:

Sponsor An Immigrant Yourself

No, really: A new kind of visa would let individual Americans—instead of corporations—reap the economic benefits of migration.

By ERIC POSNER and GLEN WEYL February 13, 2018

… Under this new system, all citizens would have the right to sponsor a migrant for economic purposes.

Here’s how the program would work: Imagine a woman named Mary Turner, who lives in Wheeling, West Virginia. She was recently laid off from a chicken-processing plant and makes ends meet by walking and taking care of her neighbors’ pets. Mary could expand her little business by hiring some workers, but no one in the area would accept a wage she can afford. Mary goes online—to a new kind of international gig economy website, a Fiverr for immigrants—and applies to sponsor a migrant. She enters information about what she needs: someone with rudimentary English skills, no criminal record and an affection for animals. She offers a room in her basement, meals and $5 an hour. (Sponsors under this program would be exempt from paying minimum wage.) The website offers Mary some matches—people living in foreign countries who would like to spend some time in the United States and earn some money. After some back and forth, Mary interviews a woman named Sofia who lives in Paraguay. …

That damn William Wilberforce got in the way of economics.

While the program might seem crazy at first, it would not be that different from the existing H1-B program, except that individuals like Mary rather than corporations like Google and Exxon would sponsor the workers. Second, the program is not that different from the au pair program run by the State Department, nominally under the J-1 cultural exchange visa program, but in reality a nanny migrant-labor program used by upper-middle class American families.

Indeed.

Eric Posner is a professor at the University of Chicago Law School.

Glen Weyl works at Microsoft Research and teaches at Yale. Their book, Radical Markets: Uprooting Capitalism and Democracy for a Just Society , will be published in the spring.

Weyl & Posner have been doing this liberaltarian shtick for years: e.g., their 2014 New Republic article “A Radical Solution to Global Income Inequality: Make the U.S. More Like Qatar:” USA should adopt Qatar’s indentured servant laws.

I can’t tell if they are trolling or just autistic.

Coming up from Weyl & Posner: Economic Theory proves it’s time to bring back the slave trade, little boy chimneysweeps, and human sacrifice. Also, billionaires should be allowed to throw guys out of helicopters, but only if they cite Weyl & Posner.

 
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  1. It’s a great idea!

    Of course the sponsors must also take on responsibility for the liabilities too – the crime, the educational and medical costs etc.

    Then some types of immigrant workers will turn out to be far cheaper than others.

    Read More
    • Agree: rogue-one
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    The guy who made that documentary about how he just ate McDonald's food for 30 days had a documentary series for a while where he'd put people in some situation for 30 days. Like some guy who lost his job to Indians he sent to India to live and work in Bangalore for 30 days.

    My mother has a basement and a small horse farm. I'd be happy to host Eric and Glen there for 30 days and pay them $5 per hour to water, feed, and turnout the horses, in addition to mucking out their stalls. Presumably, they both have health insurance, so if a horse kicks or bites them, they'll be covered.
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  2. USA should adopt Qatar’s indentured servant laws. I can’t tell if they are trolling or just autistic.

    It’s not a bad idea. It’s basically just an expansion of the H-2B seasonal non-agricultural work visa, mostly just raising the quota and maybe making it easier for individuals to participate as well as companies.

    Illegal aliens are here under non-immigrant visas. “Non-immigrant” means “I will not stay here premanently. I will return home by the date of expiration of this visa.” But in practice, if you just overstay your visa, you turn it into an immigrant visa, a green card.

    An H-2B is a little bit more explicit: Yes, you will return home. And your sponsor will be held responsible for that.

    You’d need to eliminate birthright citizenship and clamp down on fiancee and spouse visas.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel H
    >> It’s not a bad idea.

    Yes it is a bad idea. It's an idea that is about as bad as they get.

    Stop being dense. Get your head out of your libertarian homo economicus backside and take a look at how the world works. It doesn't take too many smarts to figure that out, but it does take sense.
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  3. the au pair program run by the State Department, nominally under the J-1 cultural exchange visa program, but in reality a nanny migrant-labor program used by upper-middle class American families.

    What an excellent explanation for ending this visa fraud/abuse. Of course, this would drastically reduce the number of Brazilian women available for marriage for sad, lonely American males who have trouble finding mates otherwise.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Paul Rain
    @Twinkie: You really have au-pairs coming in from non-European countries? Wow, American immigration policy just sounds stupider and stupider.

    I mean, I doubt they're straight out of the favela, but still..
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  4. $5 an hour. (Sponsors under this program would be exempt from paying minimum wage.)

    That’s a fast way to destroy existing dog walking services and put all the American dog walkers out of work. But “Mary Turner” and her newly-minted American residents will make out just fine, so screw the rest of her town (and country), right?

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    • Replies: @International Jew

    That’s a fast way to destroy existing dog walking services and put all the American dog walkers out of work.
     
    Yup. And entrepreneurial Mary too, as soon as the big boys move into the dog-walking business.

    As long as dog walkers are Americans just picking up an extra buck, there's not much scope for economies of scale. But create a program like Posner&Weyl propose, and you'll have experienced operators grabbing the visas wholesale and setting up dormitories to house and feed the dogwalkers by the thousand. If Mary still has a place in the dogwalking business after that, it'll be as a dogwalker herself, competing with Bangladeshis for a life at the subsistence level.

    Mary will benefit about as much as poor white southerners "benefited" from slavery.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  5. They don’t make Weyls like they used to:

    Read More
    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    An interview with Dirac

    And now I want to ask you something more: They tell me that you and Einstein are the only two real sure-enough high-brows and the only ones who can really understand each other. I wont ask you if this is straight stuff for I know you are too modest to admit it. But I want to know this --- Do you ever run across a fellow that even you can't understand?"

    "Yes," says he.

    "This well make a great reading for the boys down at the office," says I. "Do you mind releasing to me who he is?"

    "Weyl," says he.

    The interview came to a sudden end just then, for the doctor pulled out his watch and I dodged and jumped for the door. But he let loose a smile as we parted and I knew that all the time he had been talking to me he was solving some problem that no one else could touch.

    But if that fellow Professor Weyl ever lectures in this town again I sure am going to take a try at understanding him! A fellow ought to test his intelligence once in a while.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Weyl
    , @anon
    At least five of the first ten Jews who won Nobel prizes were half-Jews. (1905-1911ish)

    Heidegger was romantically involved with Hannah Arendt. Goebbels dated a Jewish girl just after completing his PhD. Hermann Weyl's wife was Jewish. Enrico Fermi's was too. [insert countless more anecdotes here]

    Maybe Kevin Macdonald's whole "Judaism as evolutionary strategy" hypothesis has more truth to it than people know, and an integral part of it is breeding with the best of the gentiles every generation.

    An empirical look at intermarriage in Europe in the last 300 years which followed their progress into business, academia, and other institutions, might be useful.

    , @Bob who feels the loss of JEP
    I don't know Weyl, but he is good enough for Possony, and Possony is good enough for JEP. I think it safe to assume good things.

    https://www.amazon.com/strategy-technology-Winning-decisive-war/dp/084240015X
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  6. That is all fine until the immigrant decides to eat the dogs

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  7. It sounds like slavery. Heaven forbid any American citizen would ever have to sweat, get dirt under their nails, lift a heavy box, shingle a roof, or clean their own toilet. I thought the idea of getting a dog was to go out and walk it, what do I know.

    How about the U of Chicago & Microsoft bring in “cheap” work from abroad to replace Posner and Weyl? Posner and Weyl could work as dog walkers for $5/hour and take up residence in someone’s basement. They could bunk together to cut costs and sleep in shifts.

    – Posner and Weyl’s employers win (cheaper labor).
    –The imported labor wins (new job & get to live in US).
    – Posner’s and Weyl’s new landlords win (new tenants)
    – Target and Wal-Mart win (some new customers from abroad)
    –The market wins, as Posner and Weyl now work for “more efficient” wages. Don’t tell me they hate efficiency?!? They had better not be anti-market, that sounds like communism.

    Surely they don’t mind a little competition, which makes everyone work a little harder and enhances “efficiency.” E Pluribus Efficiency

    Oh the American public that has to pay higher taxes, sees their culture diluted, gets to deal w the imported crime and poverty, and has to put up w more people and loss of forests and prairie and farmland? Well not everyone is going to win in these things.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Target and Wal-Mart win (some new customers from abroad)

     

    I think you mean Dollar General and Dollar Tree. Or even Goodwill and Savers.
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  8. USA should adopt Qatar’s indentured servant laws.

    It would be a step up from what we have now.

    She offers a room in her basement

    Unfinished? Chained to the wall? Call the Turpins. In Victorian England they had servant’s quarters upstairs, but I suppose brown people don’t deserve so much.

    The website offers Mary some matches

    So she can burn the fingers of the slaves she has chained up in her basement when they track dog hair on the carpet?

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  9. @Twinkie

    the au pair program run by the State Department, nominally under the J-1 cultural exchange visa program, but in reality a nanny migrant-labor program used by upper-middle class American families.
     
    What an excellent explanation for ending this visa fraud/abuse. Of course, this would drastically reduce the number of Brazilian women available for marriage for sad, lonely American males who have trouble finding mates otherwise.

    : You really have au-pairs coming in from non-European countries? Wow, American immigration policy just sounds stupider and stupider.

    I mean, I doubt they’re straight out of the favela, but still..

    Read More
    • Troll: AndrewR
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    I've known a number of Brazilian au pairs. All have been well-bred, of European ancestry [since that obviously is a Very Big Deal to you], and all have returned home except the girl who married an American guy.
    , @Corn
    As much as I’d enjoy a twenty year old Scandinavian or Brazilian woman traipsing around my house, the whole concept of a nanny or au pair is ridiculous. If a couple can afford to pay a nanny or au pair, they can afford one parent staying home with the kids.
    , @Twinkie

    I mean, I doubt they’re straight out of the favela, but still..
     
    The au pair program is now dominated by Brazilian women although it is also popular with young women from Sweden, Germany, and South Africa. With Swedes and Germans, it’s often a gap year thing. With Brazilians, it’s often husband-hunting. And, no, they are not from the favelas as being an au pair requires some hurdles.

    Au pairs are also notorious for partying and wrecking family vehicles. Some families have a good luck and vociferously defend the program, but some have terrible experiences as can be seen in numerous complaints online. Either way, it is NOT a cultural exchange as it is supposed to be. For the women, it’s a cheap way to get to America and live free while for the families, it is low cost labor. And the au pair agencies that mediate make money, of course.

    The whole thing needs to be scrapped.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  10. “Onkel Tom’s Gastarbeitervisa”

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  11. Surely, some of these cheap imports should be replacing Chicago Law Professors and Yale Lecturers. At $5 per hour, lots of guys in Chad would be jumping at the chance.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corn
    The newly minted Chadian professor would also, no doubt, done more real work in his life than these two clowns. Firewood and water don’t haul themselves.
    , @RebelWriter
    OT, but I rode in the elevator at work this week with some real Africans, as opposed to African Americans. They were dressed in suits, had short haircuts, and had those Bantu features. They repeated everything each other said in English, giving me the impression they were practicing the language. They were likely new employees from an African country I'm not supposed to talk about, because we're not really building military bases there at all. No sir.
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  12. >>While the program might seem crazy at first, it would not be that different from the existing H1-B program,

    Well, they got that part right.

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  13. @Chris Marsk

    USA should adopt Qatar’s indentured servant laws. I can’t tell if they are trolling or just autistic.
     
    It's not a bad idea. It's basically just an expansion of the H-2B seasonal non-agricultural work visa, mostly just raising the quota and maybe making it easier for individuals to participate as well as companies.

    Illegal aliens are here under non-immigrant visas. "Non-immigrant" means "I will not stay here premanently. I will return home by the date of expiration of this visa." But in practice, if you just overstay your visa, you turn it into an immigrant visa, a green card.

    An H-2B is a little bit more explicit: Yes, you will return home. And your sponsor will be held responsible for that.

    You'd need to eliminate birthright citizenship and clamp down on fiancee and spouse visas.

    >> It’s not a bad idea.

    Yes it is a bad idea. It’s an idea that is about as bad as they get.

    Stop being dense. Get your head out of your libertarian homo economicus backside and take a look at how the world works. It doesn’t take too many smarts to figure that out, but it does take sense.

    Read More
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  14. @Lurker
    It's a great idea!

    Of course the sponsors must also take on responsibility for the liabilities too - the crime, the educational and medical costs etc.

    Then some types of immigrant workers will turn out to be far cheaper than others.

    The guy who made that documentary about how he just ate McDonald’s food for 30 days had a documentary series for a while where he’d put people in some situation for 30 days. Like some guy who lost his job to Indians he sent to India to live and work in Bangalore for 30 days.

    My mother has a basement and a small horse farm. I’d be happy to host Eric and Glen there for 30 days and pay them $5 per hour to water, feed, and turnout the horses, in addition to mucking out their stalls. Presumably, they both have health insurance, so if a horse kicks or bites them, they’ll be covered.

    Read More
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  15. ” O I wish I was in the land of QATAR old times there are not forgotten look away ,look away”

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  16. I’ve been to Wheeling.

    You can be damn sure that (((Posner))) and (((Weyl))) have never been there… nor have they ever met anyone from there who got laid off from a chicken processing plant who wants to sponsor a Third World immigrant.

    But I’m sure they flew over it many times going between Manhattan and San Francisco.

    http://glenweyl.com/biography/

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  17. http://nationalpost.com/news/world/maid-begged-for-help-while-hanging-from-kuwait-apartment-window-her-employer-held-up-a-camera

    Warning: Disturbing content.

    The average salary of nannies/domestic workers in the Arabian Gulf countries and Singapore is about US$400, and a bit higher than that in Hong Kong.

    From a report about these domestic workers

    In terms of exposure to exploitation, in every interview and FGD, women reported having heard about or directly experienced abuse during their employment, including physical, sexual and psychological. This was usually attributed to “bad luck” in terms of having cruel employers…
    The Arabs respect a woman who has confidence and who knows her rights, they abuse you if they know that you don’t have confidence and if all the time you say ‘okay’ to them.

    Sometimes they order you to eat their leftovers. At that time, I told her ‘I don’t want to eat that’, and then she gave me fresh food. Even I started preparing my meals for myself. You have to be confident and ask for what you want.

    Qatar has legislated some changes

    Law No. 15 of 2017 states that newly-hired nannies, maids, drivers and gardeners must have a written contract with their employer. Previously, these were not required, and this meant that they could not file complaints against their employers with the labor ministry. The law also says that househelpers should have a maximum 10-hour day, during a maximum six-day week. The legislation is historic in that no such caps were defined before.

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  18. Here is the deal with dog walking and pet sitting. It is a 100% trust business. You give these people the keys to your house, your alarm codes, tell them when you’re going to be out of town and then access to the most valuable things you have in the world after your children. Most people are very picky about who they choose to be their pet sitter.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I was just talking to a young man who had recently qualified as a professional dog walker with some Uber like dog walking service. It was harder than becoming an Uber driver. You had to take a pretty difficult test on dog behavior and dog health. And have a background check. He was an upper middle class kid with a master's degree, and came from a dog-loving suburban family so he was exactly the kind of employee the firm was looking for and it still took about a month of him jumping through hoops to get their okay to be listed on their service as an independent contractor.
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  19. This reminds me of an uncle of mine. A very clever man, junior maths prof and inventor, who was always coming up with schemes that were logical in a narrow channel but – after a second’s thought – utterly, farcically, absurd.

    I think one of his proposals was that husbands share their wives around. Another involved reintroducing the vomitorium.

    But my uncle was widely acknowledged to be eccentric.

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  20. Side note: frankly, I’m fed up with urban and suburban pet culture, not the least the least because I’m sick of looking out for dog s*** everywhere I step, but also because the presence of dogs in an urban environment is a nuisance and because pets are one of the many SWPL trappings turning us into a race of ninnies. Dogs were bred to be working animals mostly in rural areas (farming, hunting, sledding, etc.), and when they were too old to work they were let inside to live out their retirement by the master’s side in recognition for their services. This idea of a permanent companion “fur baby” sleeping on the pillow from puppyhood is just nuts.

    Read More
    • Agree: Corn
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  21. The less well known distinction of chimney sweeping was the first recognised occupational disease…

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimney_sweeps%27_carcinoma

    Maybe that’s why Dick Van Dyke looks so uncomfortable in “Mary Poppins.”

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  22. I think Mr. Posner makes an excellent argument against H1B visa. We should not allow private citizens to invite immigrants by paying them below market wages & poor benefits, similarly corporations too must be forbidden from doing so.

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  23. Weyl and Posner are apparently both Jewish.

    Surely a coincidence.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    I'm planning on moving to Israel to become a professor at Tel Aviv University. I'm going to be a lecturer in the Goyishe Studies department, in which I will discuss the anti-gentilic biases which are inherent to Israeli society. I will agitate for Israel to allow in more African refugees and also promote the importation of vast numbers of foreign guest-workers.

    I'm sure this will resonate with Israeli society.
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  24. @JohnnyWalker123
    Weyl and Posner are apparently both Jewish.

    Surely a coincidence.

    I’m planning on moving to Israel to become a professor at Tel Aviv University. I’m going to be a lecturer in the Goyishe Studies department, in which I will discuss the anti-gentilic biases which are inherent to Israeli society. I will agitate for Israel to allow in more African refugees and also promote the importation of vast numbers of foreign guest-workers.

    I’m sure this will resonate with Israeli society.

    Read More
    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @Chris90
    They already have a massive reserve of labour in the form of the Palestinians, who still live in refugee camps, probably hoping to someday get their country back.

    Israel has an exceptionally bad reputation when it comes to protecting Palestinian labour from exploitation.

    I would love to know who is the worse to work for, the Jews or the Arabs.
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  25. (Sponsors under this program would be exempt from paying minimum wage.)

    Why should any company be exempt from any law? We wouldn’t allow auto manufacturers to simply be exempt from environmental law. Or consumer safety law. Why is wage law any different?

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  26. I thought this entire wages thing was actually a free economy allocating labor to sectors of growth? Oh well, I suppose Dr Krugman does know what’s best for me.

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  27. @Paul Rain
    @Twinkie: You really have au-pairs coming in from non-European countries? Wow, American immigration policy just sounds stupider and stupider.

    I mean, I doubt they're straight out of the favela, but still..

    I’ve known a number of Brazilian au pairs. All have been well-bred, of European ancestry [since that obviously is a Very Big Deal to you], and all have returned home except the girl who married an American guy.

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  28. How do we know these migrants will pick up the shit and dispose of it properly, rather than chucking it in the neighbour’s bushes or simply feeding it to your pets … or children?

    Or something like this, though it appears they try to blame the company ….

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-5380489/Premier-Inn-cleaners-use-towel-clean-bathroom.html?ITO=1490

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  29. Could someone remind me again why US citizens aren’t allowed to sell their citizenship to immigrants, and be re-designated as resident aliens? Is that different or worse than what Politico is suggesting?

    BTW, this whole “sponsor an immigrant” thing is already being done. It’s just under the table. What Politico is suggesting is simply designing an app for border coyotes.

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  30. The smartest global migration system is as follows. The world should be divided into 3 or 5 income groups (A to E).

    A starred countries should be those with high per capita income and a relatively low Gini score (it must not be too unequal) so on so forth until you reach E.

    Any country should be open to migrants from any country at its income band or higher. So an A country would only accept unlimited immigration from another A country (60 million Brits won’t want to move to America under an open borders regime) while a B country would only accept unlimited immigrants from B & above (so Mexico would accept unlimited immigration from US – A- & Costa Rican -B- citizens but not from Guatemalans etc).

    There could be some caveats; citizenship could only be after 10 years of residency and welfare denied to non-citizens.

    At a stroke it would abolish economic migration but encourage true “vibrancy.” The future Beatles may want to be in LA rather than London.

    It would also encourage countries in lower categories to up their game to encourage more freedom of mobility for their citizens.

    Finally it would encourage expats from higher bands settling in lower bands rather than immigrants from lower bands coming into the higher bands.

    Of course higher band countries could also tweak their immigration quotas so that gifted and high achieving individuals from lower band countries can still study, work & live in the West as in the 60’s rather than the 90’s diaspora model.

    None of this will actually happen as it’s far too common-sensical. The EU instead of reaching out to Eastern Europe (at best a Band C) should have caught up with the Anglosphere & Japan (Band A countries). Britain wouldn’t have left as the white working class just got fed up with a Eastern Europeans directly competing with them (they had just gotten over Indians & pakistanis doing that the precious generation).

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  31. Oh, and those two ladies who Clinton nominated for Attorney General, but had to withdraw because they hired illegal nannies, opening the door for Janet Reno? They must be really pissed now.

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  32. I can’t tell if they are trolling or just autistic.

    They are neither of those things. They are both, however, something else, and that something else leads them to wield ideas as weapons, weapons meant to destroy their host society.

    Not that this is new or anything. They just happen to put a somewhat nerdy wrapping around their genocidal anti-white mentality.

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    • Agree: Charles Pewitt
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  33. Yep.

    More importers dog-walkers – with a lifetime medical cost of 12 dollars per hour worked -is just what America needs to compete in the hi-tech sector with Japan Germany, South Korea, China etc.

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  34. After the Oxfam and Weinstein scandals, why not allow nasty old perverts to ‘sponsor’ nubile young ‘concubines’ from the third world? For their private use of course.

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  35. West Virginia? Great idea. The immigrants could be imported to work as errand boys/girls to fetch the opioids for the residents of the archipelago of economically bombed out American wastelands. And also be on call to inject Naloxone when their employers OD.

    P.S., According to the elite cognoscenti, too much learned helplessness is never enough…

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  36. As long as it’s a privately owned helicopter, it’s allowed by the Constitution. Right?

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  37. @JohnnyWalker123
    I'm planning on moving to Israel to become a professor at Tel Aviv University. I'm going to be a lecturer in the Goyishe Studies department, in which I will discuss the anti-gentilic biases which are inherent to Israeli society. I will agitate for Israel to allow in more African refugees and also promote the importation of vast numbers of foreign guest-workers.

    I'm sure this will resonate with Israeli society.

    They already have a massive reserve of labour in the form of the Palestinians, who still live in refugee camps, probably hoping to someday get their country back.

    Israel has an exceptionally bad reputation when it comes to protecting Palestinian labour from exploitation.

    I would love to know who is the worse to work for, the Jews or the Arabs.

    Read More
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  38. thats how far this “we need to respect all opinions” bullshit has gotten. t

    o the point where conservative white people are asking “why dont we bring slavery back?”

    Libertarian-type policies always love to conveniently forget that greed exists, as do people who wish to dominate others completely. But then again, those libertarians typically plan to be the dominators in the first place.

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    • Replies: @Corn
    “Libertarian-type policies always love to conveniently forget that greed exists, as do people who wish to dominate others completely. But then again, those libertarians typically plan to be the dominators in the first place.”

    Hell froze over. Tinys made a semblance of a point.

    Our site support animal is evolving.
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  39. And if one of the indentured servants rapes a 5 year old neighbor, well we just won’t stand for the initiation of force! Deport him!

    This fallacy of the pseudo-libertarians is the reason there has to be a new religious order to counter the reigning theocracy’s fanatical commitment to externalizing the costs of immigration.

    Every one of the major denominations are mere sects of the mendacious theocracy posing as Constitutional government. They all participate in refugee resettlement programs. The only reason they aren’t all sued out of existence is that the victims of community degradation can’t get justice in the court system due to the loss of social capital created by immigration.

    I mean, awarding damages _is_ the “libertarian” remedy for community damages right?
    High priests of the theocracy like Posner and Weyl would be sued into libertarian Hell.

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  40. Posner & Weyl enjoy making outlandish proposals. I’ll give it a try.

    Posner & Weyl should be denaturalized and then deported to a barge in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

    As the American Empire implodes it will be fun to watch for the speed at which some of these over-the-top schemes takes hold of the public’s imagination. That is why removing the current owners and controllers of Comcast, Google, Disney, Viacom and all the other propaganda outlets is so important. The control of the propaganda slop is highly important.

    Republican Party US Senators Cotton, Tillis and Lankford want to massively increase the guest worker and visa programs to pour more cheap labor foreigners into the United States. Cotton, Tillis and Lankford want to give amnesty to millions of illegal alien invader foreigners. These three US Senators are just a bit behind Posner and Weyl, but they all want to lower the wages and pauperize regular American citizens.

    Name a guest worker scam and a visa scheme that will flood the United States with cheap labor foreigners, and you will be sure to find that Cotton, Tillis and Lankford support it. Any and all immigration bills coming out of the US Senate must be rejected by President Trump. I don’t give a damn how closely Trump is in with Cotton, Tillis and Lankford on their immigration bill scams.

    President Trump has to keep his campaign promises to the American people. President Trump has to stand WITH the American people. Trump is dangerously close to taking a stand AGAINST the American people.

    IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM NOW!

    DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL ALIEN INVADERS NOW!

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  41. @Paul Rain
    @Twinkie: You really have au-pairs coming in from non-European countries? Wow, American immigration policy just sounds stupider and stupider.

    I mean, I doubt they're straight out of the favela, but still..

    As much as I’d enjoy a twenty year old Scandinavian or Brazilian woman traipsing around my house, the whole concept of a nanny or au pair is ridiculous. If a couple can afford to pay a nanny or au pair, they can afford one parent staying home with the kids.

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    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    Having a nanny is as much a status symbol as having a Tesla.

    A twenty-something woman at our old church worked as a nanny for a doctor-couple. They had big, demanding careers, a beautiful home (according to her), and two kids. It was all status. Again according to her, they had no time for the home or the kids, they just worked.

    Sad as it seems, this arrangement can work just fine. The nanny was great with kids and very devoted. The parents gave the kids everything they would need to perpetuate their example.
    , @Anonymous
    It's not about affordability. The wealthier a family, the more nannies, au pairs, servants, domestic staff, etc., they tend to have. It's about women's preferences. A wealthy man is still expected to work or participate in public or professional activity. He still has to play the role of breadwinner even if he's wealthy enough that he doesn't have actually work. A wealthy man's wife however does not become a stay at home housewife who takes care of the kids all by herself. They tend to have nannies, governesses, servants, butlers, cooks, etc. do the stuff that housewives are supposed to do.
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  42. @Verymuchalive
    Surely, some of these cheap imports should be replacing Chicago Law Professors and Yale Lecturers. At $5 per hour, lots of guys in Chad would be jumping at the chance.

    The newly minted Chadian professor would also, no doubt, done more real work in his life than these two clowns. Firewood and water don’t haul themselves.

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    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
    I'm totally in agreement. Like all Neoliberals. Posner and Weyl don't think that their encomiums apply to them - only to us peasants.
    Several years labouring in Chad at $5 per Month would quickly remove their delusions.
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  43. I can’t tell if they are trolling or just autistic.

    I figured it out for you: they’re Jewish.

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  44. “Billionaires should be allowed to throw guys out of helicopters, but only if they cite Weyl and Posner.”

    Essentially, the future as envisioned by the liberaltarians is a Scarface sequel, as written by Tyler Cowen.

    “Scarface II: Average Is Over.”

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  45. “Imagine a woman named Mary Turner, who lives in Wheeling, West Virginia. She was recently laid off from a chicken-processing plant.”

    Yes, “Mary Turner” is exactly the kind of name the pepole taking advantage of this program are most likely to have. It won’t be, say, “Apu Patel” importing thousands of $1.25/hour Bangladeshis to work in his convenience store empire (built on minority set-aside SBA loans) and it sure as hell won’t be something like “Sholom Rubashkin” bringing in tens of thousands of $0.87/hour Somalis to work (but not to worship with him – God no) at his slaughterhouses in Iowa where, coincidentally, a woman named “Mary Turner” worked until he bought the place and fired all the people with names like “Mary Turner,” who have just been itching to build their dog walking dynasties with cheap Honduran labor. Unfortunately no one could afford dogs anymore since a day’s worth of dog food now costs more than most people make in a week, but oh well, what can ya do?

    The stupidity and dishonesty of their example is that it pretends that, whatever the names of the people importing all the indentured servants, it will be laid-off workers importing the labor, rather than the people who already control 90% of the capital in the US.

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    • Replies: @E. Rekshun
    “Apu Patel” importing thousands of $1.25/hour Bangladeshis to work in his convenience store empire (built on minority set-aside SBA loans)

    SBA loans that won't be paid back. And don't forget the the contributions to Patel's empire generated from payroll, sales, & income tax avoidance, labor law violations, and EBT fraud.
    , @Malcolm X-Lax
    I think they're mocking us (i.e. flyover goyim).
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  46. Weyl & Posner have been doing this liberaltarian shtick for years: e.g., their 2014 New Republic article “A Radical Solution to Global Income Inequality: Make the U.S. More Like Qatar:” USA should adopt Qatar’s indentured servant laws.

    I can’t tell if they are trolling or just autistic.

    To be fair this is one Libertarian idea that is correct. Letting a constantly churning amount of immigrants hold certain jobs (Everyone gets a few years max then they have to leave) is superior at helping their economies than having a long-term immigrant hold that job and live in a wealthy country for the rest of their lives. This is assuming they are treated like the current long-term immigrants are rather than they are in the Gulf States as payment-optional workers often tricked into going there. Guest worker programmes are better for a larger number of immigrants and far better for host countries who don’t have to deal with their descendants and the political issues that come with that. (Though given the records of such programmes in Germany, Austria, Sweden and the low countries, perhaps the ‘guest’ part is a difficult ideal to apparently reach in Western countries.)

    How much would people tolerate refugees if they were assured they’d go home eventually when the danger was over instead of being composed of the spivs from their respective countries trying to exploit high trust societies.

    Otherwise everything our current elites are doing is already based on taking anywhere they have influence closer to Dubai and further away from Copenhagen.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    If there is an *absolute solid gold iron clad* guarantee that all grunt labor employed under such a scheme is BOOTED OUT - along with any offspring spawned - *with no quibbles* on expiry of a non-extendable fixed term contract with an employer, who is bound by a cash bond to pay for health and medical costs etc, then, just then, perhaps in times of *genuine* labor scarcity, it might be worthy of consideration.
    , @Macumazahn
    What about the offspring of these "guest" workers?
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  47. I’ve seen ads in a local Indian newspaper for domestic servants. As with the H-1B program, you must prove you tried to hire an American first. So the successful applicant must be able to cook Gujarati cuisine, and speak Gujarati, Urdu, and Sindhi. Pay her minimum wage for 40 hours a week, minus room and board, don’t count the time after the children are asleep, even if Amah is finally catching up on the laundry.

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  48. “(Sponsors under this program would be exempt from paying minimum wage.)”

    Gee, I never imagined I’d find this clause.

    Actually, there is a long and happy history of indentured servitude in the South. I seem to recall reading that more than half of the white people who settled the South were brought to America as indentured servants.

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    • Replies: @Corn
    “I seem to recall reading that more than half of the white people who settled the South were brought to America as indentured servants.”

    I don’t recall the exact number but I’d believe that.

    White indentured labor/slavery in colonial times is something that’s been tossed completely down the memory hole.
    People make movies about slaves, Depression era farmers, Appalachian coal miners.....they never make movies about a destitute Irish or Scottish girl or boy who was at the mercy of their master for 5, 7 years (or more if the paperwork was fuzzy) because living like that down South was preferable to starving in the old world
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  49. Trouble is that these guys appealed to the wrong demographic. Former chicken processors who walk dogs in WV can’t account for a lot of people. Does anyone have numbers on single young men who live in their mother’s basements?

    Weaboos could interview young women from Venezuala, and offer a very similar deal, except for having to share the basement with them. I think sexual indentured servants would catch on like a prairie fire. Somebody post the idea on /pol/.

    Seriously, though, whose dogs are gonna need walking in WV? I’ve been to WV several times, and I just can’t imagine that business prospering there.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Dog walking as a business exists in dense cities and better suburbs, where yuppies who only nominally "own" a dog cannot spare twenty minutes to walk it. West Virginians don't have much, but they do have land and good dogs. The fact that these people are real academics and saw nothing wrong with this incredibly brainless example bodes ill for any other bright ideas they might have.
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  50. @Verymuchalive
    Surely, some of these cheap imports should be replacing Chicago Law Professors and Yale Lecturers. At $5 per hour, lots of guys in Chad would be jumping at the chance.

    OT, but I rode in the elevator at work this week with some real Africans, as opposed to African Americans. They were dressed in suits, had short haircuts, and had those Bantu features. They repeated everything each other said in English, giving me the impression they were practicing the language. They were likely new employees from an African country I’m not supposed to talk about, because we’re not really building military bases there at all. No sir.

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  51. From 2009:

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  52. Fascinating that the laid-off chicken-processing plant worker has the wherewithal to hire an imported worker/alien immigrant at $10,000 per year plus room for a fledgling dog-walking business.

    However did her pet-owning neighbors do without such a service all along? Is there really demand (and funds to pay) for dog-walkers amongst a chicken-processing plant local economy?

    An argument along the lines of imported nannies, where demand and funds exist, passes the plausibility test. But ‘dog walkers’ as a job Americans won’t do is just plain silly.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Is there really demand (and funds to pay) for dog-walkers amongst a chicken-processing plant local economy?
     
    I spend a good amount of time in Wheeling WV, and this article is retarded. There never was a chicken processing plant in Wheeling; there were many steel plants but most are now closed. There is/was a good amount of fracking work if you could put down the bong. The only large industry is an aluminum plant down river.

    As far as dog walkers go, there are plenty of them here in the suburbs of the Imperial Capital, but I have never seen one in Wheeling.
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  53. @Paul Rain
    @Twinkie: You really have au-pairs coming in from non-European countries? Wow, American immigration policy just sounds stupider and stupider.

    I mean, I doubt they're straight out of the favela, but still..

    I mean, I doubt they’re straight out of the favela, but still..

    The au pair program is now dominated by Brazilian women although it is also popular with young women from Sweden, Germany, and South Africa. With Swedes and Germans, it’s often a gap year thing. With Brazilians, it’s often husband-hunting. And, no, they are not from the favelas as being an au pair requires some hurdles.

    Au pairs are also notorious for partying and wrecking family vehicles. Some families have a good luck and vociferously defend the program, but some have terrible experiences as can be seen in numerous complaints online. Either way, it is NOT a cultural exchange as it is supposed to be. For the women, it’s a cheap way to get to America and live free while for the families, it is low cost labor. And the au pair agencies that mediate make money, of course.

    The whole thing needs to be scrapped.

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    • Replies: @fredyetagain aka superhonky
    Briefly dated a French-speaking Swiss au pair back in the early 90s. I say briefly, because when I called to set up our third date, I was curtly informed that she had gone back to Switzerland. Always wondered why she didn't work out with the family she was working for.
    The real tragedy of course is that I was pretty sure I was going to get lucky on date #3.
    , @istevefan

    The whole thing needs to be scrapped.
     
    I'd scrap it based upon the annoying name 'au pair '.
    , @BB753
    "Au pairs are also notorious for partying and wrecking families."

    There, I fixed it for you. I know one notorious case where an English au pair, hired by a well - off housewife, seduced her husband, which led to a nasty divorce. Of course, the younger woman prevailed and the former au pair ended up marrying her former employer. Imagine the damage done to the young kids.
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  54. @Corn
    As much as I’d enjoy a twenty year old Scandinavian or Brazilian woman traipsing around my house, the whole concept of a nanny or au pair is ridiculous. If a couple can afford to pay a nanny or au pair, they can afford one parent staying home with the kids.

    Having a nanny is as much a status symbol as having a Tesla.

    A twenty-something woman at our old church worked as a nanny for a doctor-couple. They had big, demanding careers, a beautiful home (according to her), and two kids. It was all status. Again according to her, they had no time for the home or the kids, they just worked.

    Sad as it seems, this arrangement can work just fine. The nanny was great with kids and very devoted. The parents gave the kids everything they would need to perpetuate their example.

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  55. @Reg Cæsar
    They don't make Weyls like they used to:

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/A1LOHSda5GL.jpg

    An interview with Dirac

    And now I want to ask you something more: They tell me that you and Einstein are the only two real sure-enough high-brows and the only ones who can really understand each other. I wont ask you if this is straight stuff for I know you are too modest to admit it. But I want to know this — Do you ever run across a fellow that even you can’t understand?”

    “Yes,” says he.

    “This well make a great reading for the boys down at the office,” says I. “Do you mind releasing to me who he is?”

    “Weyl,” says he.

    The interview came to a sudden end just then, for the doctor pulled out his watch and I dodged and jumped for the door. But he let loose a smile as we parted and I knew that all the time he had been talking to me he was solving some problem that no one else could touch.

    But if that fellow Professor Weyl ever lectures in this town again I sure am going to take a try at understanding him! A fellow ought to test his intelligence once in a while.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Weyl

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  56. @Corn
    The newly minted Chadian professor would also, no doubt, done more real work in his life than these two clowns. Firewood and water don’t haul themselves.

    I’m totally in agreement. Like all Neoliberals. Posner and Weyl don’t think that their encomiums apply to them – only to us peasants.
    Several years labouring in Chad at $5 per Month would quickly remove their delusions.

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  57. One of my sisters was an au pair in Paris about 50 years ago. She had to do all the french paperwork, get her work permit, and whatever else. Well, the french couple treated her like a slave. 18 hours a day at least 6 days a week.

    She did it for about 2 months and then split. She was a waitress so she got that job in France. Met a Brit chick and they bummed around Europe for the next 10 months. She had a good time once she quit working full time.

    She told me in Holland the alcohol is ridiculously expensive, all the 20 somethings tried to find mouth wash, aftershave, or anything they could find to drink.

    BUT THEY HAD FREE HEALTH CARE!!!!

    She also told me about the coin operated water heater in her apartment, put in a franc and get 10 litres of warm water. I couldn’t believe it was so expensive for everything.

    BUT THEY HAD FREE HEALTH CARE!!!!

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    • LOL: The Anti-Gnostic
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  58. @Twinkie

    I mean, I doubt they’re straight out of the favela, but still..
     
    The au pair program is now dominated by Brazilian women although it is also popular with young women from Sweden, Germany, and South Africa. With Swedes and Germans, it’s often a gap year thing. With Brazilians, it’s often husband-hunting. And, no, they are not from the favelas as being an au pair requires some hurdles.

    Au pairs are also notorious for partying and wrecking family vehicles. Some families have a good luck and vociferously defend the program, but some have terrible experiences as can be seen in numerous complaints online. Either way, it is NOT a cultural exchange as it is supposed to be. For the women, it’s a cheap way to get to America and live free while for the families, it is low cost labor. And the au pair agencies that mediate make money, of course.

    The whole thing needs to be scrapped.

    Briefly dated a French-speaking Swiss au pair back in the early 90s. I say briefly, because when I called to set up our third date, I was curtly informed that she had gone back to Switzerland. Always wondered why she didn’t work out with the family she was working for.
    The real tragedy of course is that I was pretty sure I was going to get lucky on date #3.

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    The real tragedy of course is that I was pretty sure I was going to get lucky on date #3.

    I think you’re assuming she really went back. I’m pretty sure you got shut down. Bitches be ruthless.
    , @Dr. X

    Briefly dated a French-speaking Swiss au pair back in the early 90s. I say briefly, because when I called to set up our third date, I was curtly informed that she had gone back to Switzerland. Always wondered why she didn’t work out with the family she was working for.
    The real tragedy of course is that I was pretty sure I was going to get lucky on date #3.
     
    Maybe the husband "got lucky" instead -- until the wife found about about it...
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  59. These sort of “open borders” and “more immigration” “libertarians” are actually big staters.

    These “libertarians” don’t want the state to wither at all. What they want is for the state to be there to keep people from doing what they would otherwise do organically–organize as communities on up to nations to protect their people, culture, nation from invasion.

    That’s basically the state of play in the West right now. The state, whose core role is to protect the nation from invasion has been subverted to use it’s police power to prevent people from organizing to prevent invasion. Pretty amazing.

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    • Agree: Daniel H, YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @International Jew
    Pretty damn amazing, yep.
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  60. Even if you’re are one of these autistic libertarians who is indifferent to race and culture in creating a nation, there is a clearly superior libertarian position on immigration–simply create a tradeable property right for national residency.

    For the American case, every American would have the right to trade away their citizenship–more specifically their right to reside in America. The right would have to be age-specific. A 70 year old willing to live in say Costa Rica, doesn’t get to sell their right to a 20 year old who wants to come to America. They have only a 70 year old’s right, not a younger person’s right. But with that age specification … trade away!

    The result would be that residency would flow to those for whom it had the most value. And it would be no barrier to high value individuals whose presence would actually benefit Americans. Their value would mean they could afford the purchase. If say Microsoft wants some super-duper Indian engineer to work on the Internet of Things, and really want him to be in Redmond, they can just go into the market and buy him a spot, from some American (or non-American resident) ready to leave at the right price. Likewise people who are basically useless to America–and have high time preference–will tend to sell out to someone else, take the money and run.

    Of course, the reason you don’t get clamouring for this sort of scheme, is because unlike “open borders!” and “more immigration!” it doesn’t settle ethnic scores, nor beat up deplorables, nor bulk up the super-state. Rather its very nature reminds people that they actually *own* the nation. And that’s something these open borders types very much do not want people thinking.

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    • Replies: @njguy73

    simply create a tradeable property right for national residency.
     
    I am 100% on board with that.
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  61. When you carry anything to its logical extreme (in this case Posner’s libertarianism) you get complete and unmitigated lunacy!

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  62. Let’s change the name of the rule that says the GOP US House Speaker will not bring a bill up for a vote unless it has the support of the majority of the Republican House members. The old rule is associated with a corrupt Republican Party sleazebag who was sexually abusing boys, and then he was paying at least one of them hush money to keep his dirty deeds a secret.

    The new name is the Boehner Rule. The Boehner rule must be applied to any immigration bill emanating from the filthy, corrupt whorehouse known as the US Senate. Any immigration bill sponsored by Cotton, Tillis and Lankford, or any other bill cooked up by those scumbags in the US Senate must be killed by the Republican Party members in the US House of Representatives.

    Former US House Speaker Boehner dutifully killed the nation-wrecking Rubio/Obama Mass Immigration Surge — Illegal Alien Amnesty bill(S 744) in 2013. That bill would have tripled legal immigration and it would have given amnesty to upwards of 30 million illegal alien invader foreigners. Boehner earned his wine and cigarettes that day.

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  63. I can’t tell if they are trolling or just autistic.

    Or neither.
    Either are possible but a third possibility and the one I usually assume is that they have a moral blind spot for human dignity which is a typical myopia on the economic right.

    The economic right takes the, ehem, progressive, advances made by the labor movement for granted, and assumes that if we take our hands off the wheel, and go on leaving our hands off the wheel, that the market will just automatically sustain the direction and velocity of human dignity.

    When Upwork and Uber and TaskRabbit and the gig economy come along, they literally have no idea that they have made themselves apologists and promoters for the return of slavery. They have no moral concept of what they were, and are.

    And no one seems to call them out on it – but kudos to you Steve for trying this time.

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    • Replies: @utu

    a moral blind spot for human dignity which is a typical myopia on the economic right
     
    Thanks you for reminding us of it.
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  64. @Forbes
    Fascinating that the laid-off chicken-processing plant worker has the wherewithal to hire an imported worker/alien immigrant at $10,000 per year plus room for a fledgling dog-walking business.

    However did her pet-owning neighbors do without such a service all along? Is there really demand (and funds to pay) for dog-walkers amongst a chicken-processing plant local economy?

    An argument along the lines of imported nannies, where demand and funds exist, passes the plausibility test. But 'dog walkers' as a job Americans won't do is just plain silly.

    Is there really demand (and funds to pay) for dog-walkers amongst a chicken-processing plant local economy?

    I spend a good amount of time in Wheeling WV, and this article is retarded. There never was a chicken processing plant in Wheeling; there were many steel plants but most are now closed. There is/was a good amount of fracking work if you could put down the bong. The only large industry is an aluminum plant down river.

    As far as dog walkers go, there are plenty of them here in the suburbs of the Imperial Capital, but I have never seen one in Wheeling.

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  65. Sponsors under this program would be exempt from paying minimum wage.

    What is the point of a minimum wage then? All businesses will then sponsor somebody instead of hiring minimum wage Americans.

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  66. My inclusion of a Mickey Kaus Tweet in my last comment in no way means I endorse the US House Goodlatte immigration bill that Kaus says he likes.

    Any amnesty or legalization or regularization of any illegal alien invaders whatsoever is an attack on the American people and an attack on US sovereignty.

    All the immigration bills that I have heard of from the US Senate or the US House end up giving amnesty to illegal aliens and/or increasing legal immigration or increasing the number of guest workers and visa foreigners in the United States.

    US House Speaker Paul Ryan must make like former speaker Boehner and kill any damn immigration bill coming out of that shithole called the US Senate. The Goodlatte immigration bill can go to hell, too.

    IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM NOW!

    DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS NOW!

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  67. Let us import an ethnic underclass. What could go wrong?

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  68. Yes, let’s keep debating all the pros and cons of expanding the modern slave trade.

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  69. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Corn
    As much as I’d enjoy a twenty year old Scandinavian or Brazilian woman traipsing around my house, the whole concept of a nanny or au pair is ridiculous. If a couple can afford to pay a nanny or au pair, they can afford one parent staying home with the kids.

    It’s not about affordability. The wealthier a family, the more nannies, au pairs, servants, domestic staff, etc., they tend to have. It’s about women’s preferences. A wealthy man is still expected to work or participate in public or professional activity. He still has to play the role of breadwinner even if he’s wealthy enough that he doesn’t have actually work. A wealthy man’s wife however does not become a stay at home housewife who takes care of the kids all by herself. They tend to have nannies, governesses, servants, butlers, cooks, etc. do the stuff that housewives are supposed to do.

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  70. @fredyetagain aka superhonky
    Briefly dated a French-speaking Swiss au pair back in the early 90s. I say briefly, because when I called to set up our third date, I was curtly informed that she had gone back to Switzerland. Always wondered why she didn't work out with the family she was working for.
    The real tragedy of course is that I was pretty sure I was going to get lucky on date #3.

    The real tragedy of course is that I was pretty sure I was going to get lucky on date #3.

    I think you’re assuming she really went back. I’m pretty sure you got shut down. Bitches be ruthless.

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  71. U.S. residency is one of the most valuable commodities in the world. Why not hold an annual green card auction? Tech companies would have to bid for their Asian geniuses. This could raise a lot of cash for the Treasury.

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  72. “USA should adopt Qatar’s indentured servant laws.”

    Hmm. Should we adopt Qatar’s deportation-at-whim laws as well?

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  73. This is getting ridiculous. These people act like we have to have an influx of 1 to 2 million people per year or we will go TU. They act as though this influx of people is like oil or some other resource that must be consumed or all hell will break lose.

    We’ve already demonstrated by the moratorium of the 1924-65 era that we can survive without a massive influx of warm bodies. With over 32o million people already here, if we cannot make a go of it then maybe the project should be ended, the land returned to nature and the people to depart for other parts of the world.

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    • Replies: @International Jew

    maybe the project should be ended, the land returned to nature
     
    And let all that magic dirt go to waste? You're just not following the logic here: if we plant a billion Africans in our magic dirt, they'll quadruple our chance of curing cancer, going to Mars, and perfecting controlled fusion.
    , @AnotherDad

    We’ve already demonstrated by the moratorium of the 1924-65 era that we can survive without a massive influx of warm bodies. With over 32o million people already here, if we cannot make a go of it then maybe the project should be ended, the land returned to nature and the people to depart for other parts of the world.
     
    Well said, istevefan.

    This immigration forever nonsense is one of the most logically incoherent ideas--ever. If we really have immigration forever it will basically mean that either:
    -- America swallows the entire population of the world
    or
    -- current Americans--of any era!--are displaced, genocided out of existence by incoming foreigners
    or
    -- immigration continues until America is so dystopian that it is no better than an average nation in the world and as many people leave as come

    What's happening is a mixture of all three.


    In contrast, the simple historical and true explanation for our "age of immigration" is ... conquest. Europeans came with superior technology and social organization and took the land from the natives--who had been and continued to be devastated by unfamiliar old world diseases. More Europeans came for a better life as conquest rolled out providing more available land than the old country. The new nation had a good resource base and European industry took off, industrialization providing more labor demand for more people to come. The nation grew toward the high industrialized population densities of Europe. The people then desired to cut off immigration to both preserve the character of their nation and their still remaining labor scarcity and quality of life advantages, and life became very very good.

    Then some folks for a variety of base motives wanted to wreck that and did.
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  74. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I can’t tell if they are trolling or just autistic.

    They seem autistic because they have trouble conceiving of a mode of life without hiring other people as labor. Just as the Amish will have trouble conceiving of a mode of life without farming and using farm tools and farm animals. They come from a cultural background which lost its native, settled laboring class a long time ago and went into a diaspora which depended on hiring other people for labor, either directly or indirectly through money lending, for survival.

    People from different cultural backgrounds like flyover Americans who come from a culture that insists on DIY style independence and relying on oneself as much as possible for labor probably seem weirdly autistic to them.

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  75. @Tiny Duck
    thats how far this "we need to respect all opinions" bullshit has gotten. t

    o the point where conservative white people are asking "why dont we bring slavery back?"

    Libertarian-type policies always love to conveniently forget that greed exists, as do people who wish to dominate others completely. But then again, those libertarians typically plan to be the dominators in the first place.

    “Libertarian-type policies always love to conveniently forget that greed exists, as do people who wish to dominate others completely. But then again, those libertarians typically plan to be the dominators in the first place.”

    Hell froze over. Tinys made a semblance of a point.

    Our site support animal is evolving.

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  76. @Twinkie

    $5 an hour. (Sponsors under this program would be exempt from paying minimum wage.)
     
    That’s a fast way to destroy existing dog walking services and put all the American dog walkers out of work. But “Mary Turner” and her newly-minted American residents will make out just fine, so screw the rest of her town (and country), right?

    That’s a fast way to destroy existing dog walking services and put all the American dog walkers out of work.

    Yup. And entrepreneurial Mary too, as soon as the big boys move into the dog-walking business.

    As long as dog walkers are Americans just picking up an extra buck, there’s not much scope for economies of scale. But create a program like Posner&Weyl propose, and you’ll have experienced operators grabbing the visas wholesale and setting up dormitories to house and feed the dogwalkers by the thousand. If Mary still has a place in the dogwalking business after that, it’ll be as a dogwalker herself, competing with Bangladeshis for a life at the subsistence level.

    Mary will benefit about as much as poor white southerners “benefited” from slavery.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Good point.
    , @Brutusale
    Mary will be in the same position as cabbies when Uber started. Then the gig is overrun, and everyone is making Neal Stepehenson's "...once the Invisible Hand has taken away all those historical inequities and smeared them out into a broad global layer of what a Pakistani brickmaker would consider to be prosperity..."
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  77. The sneaky bastards in the GOP Cheap Labor Faction want to pass an immigration bill in the US House so they can combine their bill with an immigration bill coming out of that shithole called the US Senate in order to give amnesty to millions of illegal alien invaders.

    A conference committee would seem like the most logical path to a DACA compromise, but it is conditioned on both chambers passing a bill, something that is far from guaranteed.

    https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/house-gop-to-whip-goodlatte-immigration-bill-wednesday

    Paul Ryan and the nasty whores in the GOP Cheap Labor Faction are UNTRUSTWORTHY scumbags. US House GOP members must defeat these vile treasonites. Crush them!

    There must be a message of RETALIATORY VENGEANCE for any rat bastard GOP rodent who goes along with this scheme to give amnesty to illegal alien invaders and to massively increase guest worker visas and other visa foreigners.

    IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM NOW!

    DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS NOW!

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  78. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    It doesn’t help our cause when things like this happen.

    https://www.vox.com/2018/2/13/16466542/trump-h-2b-guest-workers

    While many businesses may truly struggle to find local workers and rely on foreign workers to fill slots, the hiring practices at Trump’s properties certainly are out of step with his “America First” rhetoric and policies.
    “If the president says ‘hire American,’ then the president’s businesses should hire American,” said Bruce Morrison, a Democrat and former Congress member from Connecticut who helped write the Immigration Act of 1990, which placed limits on the H-2B visa program.
    Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, which advocates for immigration restrictions, said he was “displeased” when Trump temporarily expanded the H-2B program in 2017. He said Mar-a-Lago is just using the program how other employers use it: as a way to avoid paying higher wages or offering more benefits to attract American workers.
    “It’s a bullshit law written to ensure that employers don’t have to hire Americans,” said Krikorian, who normally applauds the president’s immigration agenda.

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  79. @Anon7
    "(Sponsors under this program would be exempt from paying minimum wage.)"

    Gee, I never imagined I'd find this clause.

    Actually, there is a long and happy history of indentured servitude in the South. I seem to recall reading that more than half of the white people who settled the South were brought to America as indentured servants.

    “I seem to recall reading that more than half of the white people who settled the South were brought to America as indentured servants.”

    I don’t recall the exact number but I’d believe that.

    White indentured labor/slavery in colonial times is something that’s been tossed completely down the memory hole.
    People make movies about slaves, Depression era farmers, Appalachian coal miners…..they never make movies about a destitute Irish or Scottish girl or boy who was at the mercy of their master for 5, 7 years (or more if the paperwork was fuzzy) because living like that down South was preferable to starving in the old world

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    • Replies: @Anon7
    I've seen figures that as many as 2/3 of the white people who came to the colonies (pre-USA America) were indentured servants. Nobody wants to starve. About 500,000 immigrants came to America prior to the Revolution; about 55,000 were involuntary prisoners. Children often worked much longer than the usual 4-7 years.

    Good olde English law was a part of it. The Ordinance of Labourers, passed in June 1349, declared that all men and women under the age of sixty who did not practice a craft must serve anyone requiring their labor. England's population doubled in the sixteenth century, which was part of the impetus for American colonies in the first place.

    I wonder if the dogwalkers will want land - that was often part of the payoff for indentured servants.
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  80. If you want a picture of the future, imaging Genesis 47:13-21 – forever.

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  81. Read More
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  82. “We need immigration for the vibrant ethnic food!” said Jacob to Esau (Genesis 25:29-34)

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  83. @istevefan
    This is getting ridiculous. These people act like we have to have an influx of 1 to 2 million people per year or we will go TU. They act as though this influx of people is like oil or some other resource that must be consumed or all hell will break lose.

    We've already demonstrated by the moratorium of the 1924-65 era that we can survive without a massive influx of warm bodies. With over 32o million people already here, if we cannot make a go of it then maybe the project should be ended, the land returned to nature and the people to depart for other parts of the world.

    maybe the project should be ended, the land returned to nature

    And let all that magic dirt go to waste? You’re just not following the logic here: if we plant a billion Africans in our magic dirt, they’ll quadruple our chance of curing cancer, going to Mars, and perfecting controlled fusion.

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    And let all that magic dirt go to waste? You’re just not following the logic here: if we plant a billion Africans in our magic dirt, they’ll quadruple our chance of curing cancer, going to Mars, and perfecting controlled fusion.
     
    LOL. I always wondered what the problem with our fusion research was ... we had no blacks working on it! We just needed Neil Tyson to come downstairs and join us and we wouldda bin fusioning kangz.
    , @Anon7
    Don't forget that Canadians are being propagandized into believing in "magic tundra"; check out the Century Initiative, which insists that the population of Canada should be increased, eh, from its current 30 million to 100 million by 2100 AD.
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  84. “They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.” (John 8:39)

    But notice how Jesus never denies that they are indeed the children of Jacob and of Joseph.

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  85. @AnotherDad
    These sort of "open borders" and "more immigration" "libertarians" are actually big staters.

    These "libertarians" don't want the state to wither at all. What they want is for the state to be there to keep people from doing what they would otherwise do organically--organize as communities on up to nations to protect their people, culture, nation from invasion.

    That's basically the state of play in the West right now. The state, whose core role is to protect the nation from invasion has been subverted to use it's police power to prevent people from organizing to prevent invasion. Pretty amazing.

    Pretty damn amazing, yep.

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  86. They are deadly serious and operating with a concept called “utility”. As Paul Collier explains in his book Exodus, economists are entranced by the gains in global utility that are possible through manipulation of migration policy without reference to the interests of any particular nation, or all of them. Economists like Walt Rostow (the éminence grise of Vietnam) rarely try to understand the world, they think their theories are all that matters.

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  87. @SimplePseudonymicHandle

    I can’t tell if they are trolling or just autistic.
     
    Or neither.
    Either are possible but a third possibility and the one I usually assume is that they have a moral blind spot for human dignity which is a typical myopia on the economic right.

    The economic right takes the, ehem, progressive, advances made by the labor movement for granted, and assumes that if we take our hands off the wheel, and go on leaving our hands off the wheel, that the market will just automatically sustain the direction and velocity of human dignity.

    When Upwork and Uber and TaskRabbit and the gig economy come along, they literally have no idea that they have made themselves apologists and promoters for the return of slavery. They have no moral concept of what they were, and are.

    And no one seems to call them out on it - but kudos to you Steve for trying this time.

    a moral blind spot for human dignity which is a typical myopia on the economic right

    Thanks you for reminding us of it.

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  88. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    They don't make Weyls like they used to:

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/A1LOHSda5GL.jpg

    At least five of the first ten Jews who won Nobel prizes were half-Jews. (1905-1911ish)

    Heidegger was romantically involved with Hannah Arendt. Goebbels dated a Jewish girl just after completing his PhD. Hermann Weyl’s wife was Jewish. Enrico Fermi’s was too. [insert countless more anecdotes here]

    Maybe Kevin Macdonald’s whole “Judaism as evolutionary strategy” hypothesis has more truth to it than people know, and an integral part of it is breeding with the best of the gentiles every generation.

    An empirical look at intermarriage in Europe in the last 300 years which followed their progress into business, academia, and other institutions, might be useful.

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  89. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Altai

    Weyl & Posner have been doing this liberaltarian shtick for years: e.g., their 2014 New Republic article “A Radical Solution to Global Income Inequality: Make the U.S. More Like Qatar:” USA should adopt Qatar’s indentured servant laws.

    I can’t tell if they are trolling or just autistic.
     

    To be fair this is one Libertarian idea that is correct. Letting a constantly churning amount of immigrants hold certain jobs (Everyone gets a few years max then they have to leave) is superior at helping their economies than having a long-term immigrant hold that job and live in a wealthy country for the rest of their lives. This is assuming they are treated like the current long-term immigrants are rather than they are in the Gulf States as payment-optional workers often tricked into going there. Guest worker programmes are better for a larger number of immigrants and far better for host countries who don't have to deal with their descendants and the political issues that come with that. (Though given the records of such programmes in Germany, Austria, Sweden and the low countries, perhaps the 'guest' part is a difficult ideal to apparently reach in Western countries.)

    How much would people tolerate refugees if they were assured they'd go home eventually when the danger was over instead of being composed of the spivs from their respective countries trying to exploit high trust societies.

    Otherwise everything our current elites are doing is already based on taking anywhere they have influence closer to Dubai and further away from Copenhagen.

    If there is an *absolute solid gold iron clad* guarantee that all grunt labor employed under such a scheme is BOOTED OUT – along with any offspring spawned – *with no quibbles* on expiry of a non-extendable fixed term contract with an employer, who is bound by a cash bond to pay for health and medical costs etc, then, just then, perhaps in times of *genuine* labor scarcity, it might be worthy of consideration.

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  90. @International Jew

    maybe the project should be ended, the land returned to nature
     
    And let all that magic dirt go to waste? You're just not following the logic here: if we plant a billion Africans in our magic dirt, they'll quadruple our chance of curing cancer, going to Mars, and perfecting controlled fusion.

    And let all that magic dirt go to waste? You’re just not following the logic here: if we plant a billion Africans in our magic dirt, they’ll quadruple our chance of curing cancer, going to Mars, and perfecting controlled fusion.

    LOL. I always wondered what the problem with our fusion research was … we had no blacks working on it! We just needed Neil Tyson to come downstairs and join us and we wouldda bin fusioning kangz.

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  91. @Reg Cæsar
    They don't make Weyls like they used to:

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/A1LOHSda5GL.jpg

    I don’t know Weyl, but he is good enough for Possony, and Possony is good enough for JEP. I think it safe to assume good things.

    https://www.amazon.com/strategy-technology-Winning-decisive-war/dp/084240015X

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Different Weyls. Nathaniel Weyl died in Ojai at age 95 around 10 or 15 years ago. This is Glenn Weyl, who is much younger. I asked him and he said he wasn't aware of a family connection. There could be one because they'd have been several generations apart, and might not have heard about it, but it wouldn't be close.

    This Posner is the son of Judge Posner, right?

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  92. @istevefan
    This is getting ridiculous. These people act like we have to have an influx of 1 to 2 million people per year or we will go TU. They act as though this influx of people is like oil or some other resource that must be consumed or all hell will break lose.

    We've already demonstrated by the moratorium of the 1924-65 era that we can survive without a massive influx of warm bodies. With over 32o million people already here, if we cannot make a go of it then maybe the project should be ended, the land returned to nature and the people to depart for other parts of the world.

    We’ve already demonstrated by the moratorium of the 1924-65 era that we can survive without a massive influx of warm bodies. With over 32o million people already here, if we cannot make a go of it then maybe the project should be ended, the land returned to nature and the people to depart for other parts of the world.

    Well said, istevefan.

    This immigration forever nonsense is one of the most logically incoherent ideas–ever. If we really have immigration forever it will basically mean that either:
    — America swallows the entire population of the world
    or
    — current Americans–of any era!–are displaced, genocided out of existence by incoming foreigners
    or
    — immigration continues until America is so dystopian that it is no better than an average nation in the world and as many people leave as come

    What’s happening is a mixture of all three.

    In contrast, the simple historical and true explanation for our “age of immigration” is … conquest. Europeans came with superior technology and social organization and took the land from the natives–who had been and continued to be devastated by unfamiliar old world diseases. More Europeans came for a better life as conquest rolled out providing more available land than the old country. The new nation had a good resource base and European industry took off, industrialization providing more labor demand for more people to come. The nation grew toward the high industrialized population densities of Europe. The people then desired to cut off immigration to both preserve the character of their nation and their still remaining labor scarcity and quality of life advantages, and life became very very good.

    Then some folks for a variety of base motives wanted to wreck that and did.

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    • Replies: @istevefan

    The nation grew toward the high industrialized population densities of Europe. The people then desired to cut off immigration to both preserve the character of their nation and their still remaining labor scarcity and quality of life advantages, and life became very very good.
     
    Exactly. We became fully settled about 100 years ago. As many have pointed out we don't require the amount of grunt labor we used to. Farming has dwindled to something like 2 percent of the population. Our heavy industry was gutted for cheaper overseas Chinese foundries thanks to free trade. And our military doesn't need 12 million people in uniform like we had in WW2.

    What I find interesting is how many people are caught up in the race for being first in every category, even ones that are not really desirable. I keep hearing analysts say we need to grow or else other countries will surpass our population. But looking at the list of nations currently above us, or ready to overtake us reveals nothing by shi*holes. Even the elite of China and India seem to want to get out even though they are on track for having the largest economies in the world.

    Meanwhile people acknowledge the idyllic Switzerlands of the world or the beautiful enclaves like Malibu and can't seem to connect the dots between low population density and quality of life.

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  93. @Corn
    “I seem to recall reading that more than half of the white people who settled the South were brought to America as indentured servants.”

    I don’t recall the exact number but I’d believe that.

    White indentured labor/slavery in colonial times is something that’s been tossed completely down the memory hole.
    People make movies about slaves, Depression era farmers, Appalachian coal miners.....they never make movies about a destitute Irish or Scottish girl or boy who was at the mercy of their master for 5, 7 years (or more if the paperwork was fuzzy) because living like that down South was preferable to starving in the old world

    I’ve seen figures that as many as 2/3 of the white people who came to the colonies (pre-USA America) were indentured servants. Nobody wants to starve. About 500,000 immigrants came to America prior to the Revolution; about 55,000 were involuntary prisoners. Children often worked much longer than the usual 4-7 years.

    Good olde English law was a part of it. The Ordinance of Labourers, passed in June 1349, declared that all men and women under the age of sixty who did not practice a craft must serve anyone requiring their labor. England’s population doubled in the sixteenth century, which was part of the impetus for American colonies in the first place.

    I wonder if the dogwalkers will want land – that was often part of the payoff for indentured servants.

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  94. @International Jew

    maybe the project should be ended, the land returned to nature
     
    And let all that magic dirt go to waste? You're just not following the logic here: if we plant a billion Africans in our magic dirt, they'll quadruple our chance of curing cancer, going to Mars, and perfecting controlled fusion.

    Don’t forget that Canadians are being propagandized into believing in “magic tundra”; check out the Century Initiative, which insists that the population of Canada should be increased, eh, from its current 30 million to 100 million by 2100 AD.

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  95. The Tom Cotton, Thom Tillis and James Lankford immigration scam plan in the US Senate must be killed before it is allowed to leave the US Senate. President Trump must abandon his support for the horrible immigration bill put forward by Cotton, Tillis and Lankford.

    The Cotton, Tillis and Lankford immigration bill gives amnesty to millions of illegal aliens; does NOT reduce legal immigration for at least ten years; and it increases guest workers in the United States by reallocating some immigration slots from other programs.

    GOP US Senator Joni Ernst gives the GOP CHEAP LABOR HOG game away by saying this:

    And I think that we look at other visa issues as well and mak[e] sure that we are promoting the visa — work visa — so we are able to fill our labor pools.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/14/16999286/7-republican-senators-legal-immigration-cuts

    Joni Ernst and the GOP CHEAP LABOR FACTION want to keep the oversupply of labor in the US so as to keep wages stagnant or to keep wages falling or to completely replace Americans with foreigners in jobs.

    The GOP Cheap Labor Faction wants to make sure the LABOR POOLS are overflowing with foreigners so as to keep wages for American citizens stagnant or falling or nonexistent.

    IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM NOW!

    DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS NOW!

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    • Replies: @Buck Turgidson
    First-term Senator Ernst from Iowa has been a massive disappointment. She knocked off mega-liberal Bruce Braley, who was standard issue, open borders / more taxes / more government / diversity forever democrat disaster. She hasn't been much better and looks to be right out of the Bushie neocon RINO mold. Invade and invite, as Steve says.

    She has some event like a hog roast, and rides her Harley. She is a veteran so there is flag waving and all the imagery and bromides and sloganeering that go with it. I guess it makes for a good show, for some. I hope Iowans look past the imagery and optics and vote her out after one term. She stinks.
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  96. How long will it take for our Paraguayan dog-walker Sofia, making $5/hr and living in Mary’s basement, to repay the airfare to bring her here?
    How many anchor babies will she drop?

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  97. @JollyOldSoul
    "Imagine a woman named Mary Turner, who lives in Wheeling, West Virginia. She was recently laid off from a chicken-processing plant."

    Yes, "Mary Turner" is exactly the kind of name the pepole taking advantage of this program are most likely to have. It won't be, say, "Apu Patel" importing thousands of $1.25/hour Bangladeshis to work in his convenience store empire (built on minority set-aside SBA loans) and it sure as hell won't be something like "Sholom Rubashkin" bringing in tens of thousands of $0.87/hour Somalis to work (but not to worship with him - God no) at his slaughterhouses in Iowa where, coincidentally, a woman named "Mary Turner" worked until he bought the place and fired all the people with names like "Mary Turner," who have just been itching to build their dog walking dynasties with cheap Honduran labor. Unfortunately no one could afford dogs anymore since a day's worth of dog food now costs more than most people make in a week, but oh well, what can ya do?

    The stupidity and dishonesty of their example is that it pretends that, whatever the names of the people importing all the indentured servants, it will be laid-off workers importing the labor, rather than the people who already control 90% of the capital in the US.

    “Apu Patel” importing thousands of $1.25/hour Bangladeshis to work in his convenience store empire (built on minority set-aside SBA loans)

    SBA loans that won’t be paid back. And don’t forget the the contributions to Patel’s empire generated from payroll, sales, & income tax avoidance, labor law violations, and EBT fraud.

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  98. @Bob who feels the loss of JEP
    I don't know Weyl, but he is good enough for Possony, and Possony is good enough for JEP. I think it safe to assume good things.

    https://www.amazon.com/strategy-technology-Winning-decisive-war/dp/084240015X

    Different Weyls. Nathaniel Weyl died in Ojai at age 95 around 10 or 15 years ago. This is Glenn Weyl, who is much younger. I asked him and he said he wasn’t aware of a family connection. There could be one because they’d have been several generations apart, and might not have heard about it, but it wouldn’t be close.

    This Posner is the son of Judge Posner, right?

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    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
    Indeed he is, even did the same Yale for undergraduate, Harvard for law school route his father did.
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  99. @Altai

    Weyl & Posner have been doing this liberaltarian shtick for years: e.g., their 2014 New Republic article “A Radical Solution to Global Income Inequality: Make the U.S. More Like Qatar:” USA should adopt Qatar’s indentured servant laws.

    I can’t tell if they are trolling or just autistic.
     

    To be fair this is one Libertarian idea that is correct. Letting a constantly churning amount of immigrants hold certain jobs (Everyone gets a few years max then they have to leave) is superior at helping their economies than having a long-term immigrant hold that job and live in a wealthy country for the rest of their lives. This is assuming they are treated like the current long-term immigrants are rather than they are in the Gulf States as payment-optional workers often tricked into going there. Guest worker programmes are better for a larger number of immigrants and far better for host countries who don't have to deal with their descendants and the political issues that come with that. (Though given the records of such programmes in Germany, Austria, Sweden and the low countries, perhaps the 'guest' part is a difficult ideal to apparently reach in Western countries.)

    How much would people tolerate refugees if they were assured they'd go home eventually when the danger was over instead of being composed of the spivs from their respective countries trying to exploit high trust societies.

    Otherwise everything our current elites are doing is already based on taking anywhere they have influence closer to Dubai and further away from Copenhagen.

    What about the offspring of these “guest” workers?

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  100. @Charles Pewitt
    The Tom Cotton, Thom Tillis and James Lankford immigration scam plan in the US Senate must be killed before it is allowed to leave the US Senate. President Trump must abandon his support for the horrible immigration bill put forward by Cotton, Tillis and Lankford.

    The Cotton, Tillis and Lankford immigration bill gives amnesty to millions of illegal aliens; does NOT reduce legal immigration for at least ten years; and it increases guest workers in the United States by reallocating some immigration slots from other programs.

    GOP US Senator Joni Ernst gives the GOP CHEAP LABOR HOG game away by saying this:

    And I think that we look at other visa issues as well and mak[e] sure that we are promoting the visa — work visa — so we are able to fill our labor pools.

     

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/14/16999286/7-republican-senators-legal-immigration-cuts

    Joni Ernst and the GOP CHEAP LABOR FACTION want to keep the oversupply of labor in the US so as to keep wages stagnant or to keep wages falling or to completely replace Americans with foreigners in jobs.

    The GOP Cheap Labor Faction wants to make sure the LABOR POOLS are overflowing with foreigners so as to keep wages for American citizens stagnant or falling or nonexistent.

    IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM NOW!

    DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS NOW!

    First-term Senator Ernst from Iowa has been a massive disappointment. She knocked off mega-liberal Bruce Braley, who was standard issue, open borders / more taxes / more government / diversity forever democrat disaster. She hasn’t been much better and looks to be right out of the Bushie neocon RINO mold. Invade and invite, as Steve says.

    She has some event like a hog roast, and rides her Harley. She is a veteran so there is flag waving and all the imagery and bromides and sloganeering that go with it. I guess it makes for a good show, for some. I hope Iowans look past the imagery and optics and vote her out after one term. She stinks.

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    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    So disappointing to hear this, Buck. Ernst seems to have dropped off the conservative radar, and you've certainly explained why.
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  101. @International Jew

    That’s a fast way to destroy existing dog walking services and put all the American dog walkers out of work.
     
    Yup. And entrepreneurial Mary too, as soon as the big boys move into the dog-walking business.

    As long as dog walkers are Americans just picking up an extra buck, there's not much scope for economies of scale. But create a program like Posner&Weyl propose, and you'll have experienced operators grabbing the visas wholesale and setting up dormitories to house and feed the dogwalkers by the thousand. If Mary still has a place in the dogwalking business after that, it'll be as a dogwalker herself, competing with Bangladeshis for a life at the subsistence level.

    Mary will benefit about as much as poor white southerners "benefited" from slavery.

    Good point.

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  102. @Twinkie

    I mean, I doubt they’re straight out of the favela, but still..
     
    The au pair program is now dominated by Brazilian women although it is also popular with young women from Sweden, Germany, and South Africa. With Swedes and Germans, it’s often a gap year thing. With Brazilians, it’s often husband-hunting. And, no, they are not from the favelas as being an au pair requires some hurdles.

    Au pairs are also notorious for partying and wrecking family vehicles. Some families have a good luck and vociferously defend the program, but some have terrible experiences as can be seen in numerous complaints online. Either way, it is NOT a cultural exchange as it is supposed to be. For the women, it’s a cheap way to get to America and live free while for the families, it is low cost labor. And the au pair agencies that mediate make money, of course.

    The whole thing needs to be scrapped.

    The whole thing needs to be scrapped.

    I’d scrap it based upon the annoying name ‘au pair ‘.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I’d scrap it based upon the annoying name ‘au pair ‘.
     
    It's a bit of Orwellian doublespeak, if you will. It's called that precisely because the relationship is NOT equal. I think most au pairs live in basements.
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  103. @RebelWriter
    Trouble is that these guys appealed to the wrong demographic. Former chicken processors who walk dogs in WV can't account for a lot of people. Does anyone have numbers on single young men who live in their mother's basements?

    Weaboos could interview young women from Venezuala, and offer a very similar deal, except for having to share the basement with them. I think sexual indentured servants would catch on like a prairie fire. Somebody post the idea on /pol/.

    Seriously, though, whose dogs are gonna need walking in WV? I've been to WV several times, and I just can't imagine that business prospering there.

    Dog walking as a business exists in dense cities and better suburbs, where yuppies who only nominally “own” a dog cannot spare twenty minutes to walk it. West Virginians don’t have much, but they do have land and good dogs. The fact that these people are real academics and saw nothing wrong with this incredibly brainless example bodes ill for any other bright ideas they might have.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The young man I know who just qualified as a dog walker walks dogs in Manhattan.
    , @Twinkie

    where yuppies who only nominally “own” a dog cannot spare twenty minutes to walk it.
     
    That’s not the main market for dog walkers. The service usually is for middle of the day when people are at work. You shouldn’t leave dogs locked up 8-10 hours.
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  104. @Twinkie

    I mean, I doubt they’re straight out of the favela, but still..
     
    The au pair program is now dominated by Brazilian women although it is also popular with young women from Sweden, Germany, and South Africa. With Swedes and Germans, it’s often a gap year thing. With Brazilians, it’s often husband-hunting. And, no, they are not from the favelas as being an au pair requires some hurdles.

    Au pairs are also notorious for partying and wrecking family vehicles. Some families have a good luck and vociferously defend the program, but some have terrible experiences as can be seen in numerous complaints online. Either way, it is NOT a cultural exchange as it is supposed to be. For the women, it’s a cheap way to get to America and live free while for the families, it is low cost labor. And the au pair agencies that mediate make money, of course.

    The whole thing needs to be scrapped.

    “Au pairs are also notorious for partying and wrecking families.”

    There, I fixed it for you. I know one notorious case where an English au pair, hired by a well – off housewife, seduced her husband, which led to a nasty divorce. Of course, the younger woman prevailed and the former au pair ended up marrying her former employer. Imagine the damage done to the young kids.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie
    That’s pretty rare. Au pairs aren’t hunting for married men. There are apparently lots of single men on dating sites/webs for the au pairs.
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  105. @Whitney
    Here is the deal with dog walking and pet sitting. It is a 100% trust business. You give these people the keys to your house, your alarm codes, tell them when you're going to be out of town and then access to the most valuable things you have in the world after your children. Most people are very picky about who they choose to be their pet sitter.

    I was just talking to a young man who had recently qualified as a professional dog walker with some Uber like dog walking service. It was harder than becoming an Uber driver. You had to take a pretty difficult test on dog behavior and dog health. And have a background check. He was an upper middle class kid with a master’s degree, and came from a dog-loving suburban family so he was exactly the kind of employee the firm was looking for and it still took about a month of him jumping through hoops to get their okay to be listed on their service as an independent contractor.

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  106. @J.Ross
    Dog walking as a business exists in dense cities and better suburbs, where yuppies who only nominally "own" a dog cannot spare twenty minutes to walk it. West Virginians don't have much, but they do have land and good dogs. The fact that these people are real academics and saw nothing wrong with this incredibly brainless example bodes ill for any other bright ideas they might have.

    The young man I know who just qualified as a dog walker walks dogs in Manhattan.

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  107. The Last Refuge had a pretty good tweet storm yesterday about Trump’s open meeting with legislators about trade.

    He makes the point that Trump let the cameras record and the GOP senators foolishly let America see how they are not really for the average Joe.

    One by one Republicans took-the-bait & fully exposed themselves. Lamar Alexander, Mike Lee, Pat Toomey, Roy Blout all took turns telling POTUS to quit trying to save American high-wage jobs, drop the national economic view and just accept multinational corporate globalism.

    It’s pretty interesting to see these senators seemingly to be against Trump’s efforts to bring back manufacturing jobs.

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    • Agree: Charles Pewitt
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  108. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Sponsors under this program would be exempt from paying minimum wage.

    Must. Get. More. Brown people. In. The U.S.

    Then in a few years, once they have kids and their kids become citizens, we can all be told what horrible people we are for having underpaid these lovely, hard-working people and practically treating them like slaves. Then we can be told we must give them reparations.

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  109. @Buck Turgidson
    It sounds like slavery. Heaven forbid any American citizen would ever have to sweat, get dirt under their nails, lift a heavy box, shingle a roof, or clean their own toilet. I thought the idea of getting a dog was to go out and walk it, what do I know.

    How about the U of Chicago & Microsoft bring in "cheap" work from abroad to replace Posner and Weyl? Posner and Weyl could work as dog walkers for $5/hour and take up residence in someone's basement. They could bunk together to cut costs and sleep in shifts.

    -- Posner and Weyl's employers win (cheaper labor).
    --The imported labor wins (new job & get to live in US).
    -- Posner's and Weyl's new landlords win (new tenants)
    -- Target and Wal-Mart win (some new customers from abroad)
    --The market wins, as Posner and Weyl now work for "more efficient" wages. Don't tell me they hate efficiency?!? They had better not be anti-market, that sounds like communism.

    Surely they don't mind a little competition, which makes everyone work a little harder and enhances "efficiency." E Pluribus Efficiency

    Oh the American public that has to pay higher taxes, sees their culture diluted, gets to deal w the imported crime and poverty, and has to put up w more people and loss of forests and prairie and farmland? Well not everyone is going to win in these things.

    Target and Wal-Mart win (some new customers from abroad)

    I think you mean Dollar General and Dollar Tree. Or even Goodwill and Savers.

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  110. @fredyetagain aka superhonky
    Briefly dated a French-speaking Swiss au pair back in the early 90s. I say briefly, because when I called to set up our third date, I was curtly informed that she had gone back to Switzerland. Always wondered why she didn't work out with the family she was working for.
    The real tragedy of course is that I was pretty sure I was going to get lucky on date #3.

    Briefly dated a French-speaking Swiss au pair back in the early 90s. I say briefly, because when I called to set up our third date, I was curtly informed that she had gone back to Switzerland. Always wondered why she didn’t work out with the family she was working for.
    The real tragedy of course is that I was pretty sure I was going to get lucky on date #3.

    Maybe the husband “got lucky” instead — until the wife found about about it…

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  111. @Buck Turgidson
    First-term Senator Ernst from Iowa has been a massive disappointment. She knocked off mega-liberal Bruce Braley, who was standard issue, open borders / more taxes / more government / diversity forever democrat disaster. She hasn't been much better and looks to be right out of the Bushie neocon RINO mold. Invade and invite, as Steve says.

    She has some event like a hog roast, and rides her Harley. She is a veteran so there is flag waving and all the imagery and bromides and sloganeering that go with it. I guess it makes for a good show, for some. I hope Iowans look past the imagery and optics and vote her out after one term. She stinks.

    So disappointing to hear this, Buck. Ernst seems to have dropped off the conservative radar, and you’ve certainly explained why.

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    • Replies: @Buck Turgidson
    There were high hopes for Ernst, and taking down democrat shill bruce braley in the election was a good thing b/c braley would have been a disaster and repeat of liberal moron tom harkin.

    But ernst has totally rolled for the big immigration / open borders / chamber of "cheap" labor anti-commerce anti-American wing of the republican party.

    Hope Iowans are paying attention and send her packing after one term.
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  112. I swear, Steve, I’m ready to die on this hill.

    It’s “Wheeling, WV, Needs…” Not “Wheeling, WV Needs…”

    Don’t you see the difference in logic? In readability?

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  113. @JollyOldSoul
    "Imagine a woman named Mary Turner, who lives in Wheeling, West Virginia. She was recently laid off from a chicken-processing plant."

    Yes, "Mary Turner" is exactly the kind of name the pepole taking advantage of this program are most likely to have. It won't be, say, "Apu Patel" importing thousands of $1.25/hour Bangladeshis to work in his convenience store empire (built on minority set-aside SBA loans) and it sure as hell won't be something like "Sholom Rubashkin" bringing in tens of thousands of $0.87/hour Somalis to work (but not to worship with him - God no) at his slaughterhouses in Iowa where, coincidentally, a woman named "Mary Turner" worked until he bought the place and fired all the people with names like "Mary Turner," who have just been itching to build their dog walking dynasties with cheap Honduran labor. Unfortunately no one could afford dogs anymore since a day's worth of dog food now costs more than most people make in a week, but oh well, what can ya do?

    The stupidity and dishonesty of their example is that it pretends that, whatever the names of the people importing all the indentured servants, it will be laid-off workers importing the labor, rather than the people who already control 90% of the capital in the US.

    I think they’re mocking us (i.e. flyover goyim).

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    New Yorkers seem strangely obsessed with West Virginia.
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  114. @BB753
    "Au pairs are also notorious for partying and wrecking families."

    There, I fixed it for you. I know one notorious case where an English au pair, hired by a well - off housewife, seduced her husband, which led to a nasty divorce. Of course, the younger woman prevailed and the former au pair ended up marrying her former employer. Imagine the damage done to the young kids.

    That’s pretty rare. Au pairs aren’t hunting for married men. There are apparently lots of single men on dating sites/webs for the au pairs.

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    • Replies: @BB753
    Wake up! Single women are always on the hunt for the highest price: the wealthy late 30's early 40's year old married man.
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  115. @J.Ross
    Dog walking as a business exists in dense cities and better suburbs, where yuppies who only nominally "own" a dog cannot spare twenty minutes to walk it. West Virginians don't have much, but they do have land and good dogs. The fact that these people are real academics and saw nothing wrong with this incredibly brainless example bodes ill for any other bright ideas they might have.

    where yuppies who only nominally “own” a dog cannot spare twenty minutes to walk it.

    That’s not the main market for dog walkers. The service usually is for middle of the day when people are at work. You shouldn’t leave dogs locked up 8-10 hours.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    This is a fair point but doesn't validate West Virginia as a market.
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  116. Wait, how did Mary lose her job? She was laid off? Why? Because cheaper, imported labor displaced American union workers at chicken processing plants in Arkansas and that undermined the profitability of the Wheeling plant?

    So bringing in more cheap labor will somehow solve the problems caused by cheap imported labor?

    As Lincoln’s economist Friedrich List observed, once a nation opts for cheaper labor rather than nurturing and protecting it’s own citizens and industries, it’s a race to the bottom.

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  117. If “the business of America is business,” then Americanism means serving the needs of business. And what are the needs of business? The foremost such need (according to every mainstream economist) is efficiency: maximum output obtained with minimum input. The minimum, of course, is zero. “Something for nothing” is the Platonic Form of efficiency, the summum bonum of capitalism, not infrequently near-realized in such things as compound interest and chattel slavery.

    The Cold War hangover includes believing in major elements of that period’s worst ideological excesses (as the post-WW2 hangover includes believing in that war’s long-discredited propaganda, on all sides). This congeries of think tank disinfo — the works of “Ayn Rand” (reported real name: Alyssa Rosenbaum), Milton Friedman, Robert Ringer, von Mises, etc. — is the fumes on which the current “Washington Consensus” runs, at least to the extent to which current think tanks like Heritage and Cato inform it. The Consensus is intellectually bankrupt.

    Could Orwell have been cleverer than advertised? He wrote that an axiom of Ingsoc is “Freedom Is Slavery.” If freedom, as we have been brainwashed to think, means capitalist efficiency, then old George may have been on to a fiendish irony. “Freedom” may indeed mean “the slave trade, 5-year-old chimney sweeps, and human sacrifice,” i.e., the trampling of humanity by the powerful. Just as was commonly taught and understood prior to 1946.

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  118. @AnotherDad

    We’ve already demonstrated by the moratorium of the 1924-65 era that we can survive without a massive influx of warm bodies. With over 32o million people already here, if we cannot make a go of it then maybe the project should be ended, the land returned to nature and the people to depart for other parts of the world.
     
    Well said, istevefan.

    This immigration forever nonsense is one of the most logically incoherent ideas--ever. If we really have immigration forever it will basically mean that either:
    -- America swallows the entire population of the world
    or
    -- current Americans--of any era!--are displaced, genocided out of existence by incoming foreigners
    or
    -- immigration continues until America is so dystopian that it is no better than an average nation in the world and as many people leave as come

    What's happening is a mixture of all three.


    In contrast, the simple historical and true explanation for our "age of immigration" is ... conquest. Europeans came with superior technology and social organization and took the land from the natives--who had been and continued to be devastated by unfamiliar old world diseases. More Europeans came for a better life as conquest rolled out providing more available land than the old country. The new nation had a good resource base and European industry took off, industrialization providing more labor demand for more people to come. The nation grew toward the high industrialized population densities of Europe. The people then desired to cut off immigration to both preserve the character of their nation and their still remaining labor scarcity and quality of life advantages, and life became very very good.

    Then some folks for a variety of base motives wanted to wreck that and did.

    The nation grew toward the high industrialized population densities of Europe. The people then desired to cut off immigration to both preserve the character of their nation and their still remaining labor scarcity and quality of life advantages, and life became very very good.

    Exactly. We became fully settled about 100 years ago. As many have pointed out we don’t require the amount of grunt labor we used to. Farming has dwindled to something like 2 percent of the population. Our heavy industry was gutted for cheaper overseas Chinese foundries thanks to free trade. And our military doesn’t need 12 million people in uniform like we had in WW2.

    What I find interesting is how many people are caught up in the race for being first in every category, even ones that are not really desirable. I keep hearing analysts say we need to grow or else other countries will surpass our population. But looking at the list of nations currently above us, or ready to overtake us reveals nothing by shi*holes. Even the elite of China and India seem to want to get out even though they are on track for having the largest economies in the world.

    Meanwhile people acknowledge the idyllic Switzerlands of the world or the beautiful enclaves like Malibu and can’t seem to connect the dots between low population density and quality of life.

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  119. Posner and Weyl seem to be experts in the dog-walking business, but I wonder how familiar they are with Wheeling, WV. Do they really imagine that any of its 28,000 inhabitants (average income $38,352) are in the habit of hiring other people to walk their dogs?

    Sources:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheeling%2C_West_Virginia https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Location=Wheeling-WV/Salary

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    • Replies: @John Gruskos
    There is a greyhound race track / casino on the island in the Ohio river which is part of the town of Wheeling.

    Maybe they need a dog walker.

    I say we limit future immigration into the United States to a total of one ( 1 ) person, a trained dog walker to keep the Wheeling greyhounds happy.
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  120. @Twinkie

    where yuppies who only nominally “own” a dog cannot spare twenty minutes to walk it.
     
    That’s not the main market for dog walkers. The service usually is for middle of the day when people are at work. You shouldn’t leave dogs locked up 8-10 hours.

    This is a fair point but doesn’t validate West Virginia as a market.

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  121. @Twinkie
    That’s pretty rare. Au pairs aren’t hunting for married men. There are apparently lots of single men on dating sites/webs for the au pairs.

    Wake up! Single women are always on the hunt for the highest price: the wealthy late 30′s early 40′s year old married man.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Wake up! Single women are always on the hunt for the highest price: the wealthy late 30′s early 40′s year old married man.
     
    Um. No. First of all, wealthy families don't use au pairs. They can hire American nannies.

    My wife and I looked into getting an au pair when our older kids were little, but in the end, we ended up hiring a local gal who was studying and saving up to be a nurse to help us for a few days a week. She was fantastic and remains a welcome family friend (she comes to our kids' birthday parties every year and we have her over every holiday as well) But, she was a lot more expensive than an au pair. On top of her wages, we had to pay various taxes plus there was a bit of paper work.

    People who subscribe to au pair programs are middle to upper middle class, not wealthy. They are trying to save money by going the au pair route, rather than hiring an American nanny.

    Also, Brazilian girls aren't looking to hook up with some pot-bellied 40 year old father (let's face it, most American men that age aren't exactly in good shape).
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  122. @BB753
    Wake up! Single women are always on the hunt for the highest price: the wealthy late 30's early 40's year old married man.

    Wake up! Single women are always on the hunt for the highest price: the wealthy late 30′s early 40′s year old married man.

    Um. No. First of all, wealthy families don’t use au pairs. They can hire American nannies.

    My wife and I looked into getting an au pair when our older kids were little, but in the end, we ended up hiring a local gal who was studying and saving up to be a nurse to help us for a few days a week. She was fantastic and remains a welcome family friend (she comes to our kids’ birthday parties every year and we have her over every holiday as well) But, she was a lot more expensive than an au pair. On top of her wages, we had to pay various taxes plus there was a bit of paper work.

    People who subscribe to au pair programs are middle to upper middle class, not wealthy. They are trying to save money by going the au pair route, rather than hiring an American nanny.

    Also, Brazilian girls aren’t looking to hook up with some pot-bellied 40 year old father (let’s face it, most American men that age aren’t exactly in good shape).

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    • Replies: @BB753
    Au pairs are more upscale now, particularly if you hire a French, German or Japanese one to teach the language to the kids.

    "Also, Brazilian girls aren’t looking to hook up with some pot-bellied 40 year old father (let’s face it, most American men that age aren’t exactly in good shape)."

    That's what many husbands say to talk their wives into hiring a Brazilian girl! It's guaranteed sex, I tell you, pot-belly or not. What do you think most Brazilian men look like past thirty years old? The look 65 and finished and spent.

    , @AndrewR
    Speak for yourself fatass
    , @JSM
    People who subscribe to au pair programs are middle to upper middle class, not wealthy. They are trying to save money by going the au pair route, rather than hiring an American nanny.

    Are you really this silly? Haven't you ever heard the old adage that one of the hallmarks of wealth is NEVER paying retail?

    No, it's not upper-middle -class strivers who hire cheap au pair nannies. They are upper middle class strivers, therefore they pay FULL FREIGHT. On everything. To show off their nouveau wealth money.

    Old Money understands that doing such Status Signaling is silly.

    Hence:

    Old Money hires au pairs.
    Upper Middle Class Striving Nouveau Wealthy hire expensive Americans if they possibly afford to. If they can't, they go really cheap and hire Chicana illegal aliens.
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  123. @istevefan

    The whole thing needs to be scrapped.
     
    I'd scrap it based upon the annoying name 'au pair '.

    I’d scrap it based upon the annoying name ‘au pair ‘.

    It’s a bit of Orwellian doublespeak, if you will. It’s called that precisely because the relationship is NOT equal. I think most au pairs live in basements.

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  124. @The Last Real Calvinist
    So disappointing to hear this, Buck. Ernst seems to have dropped off the conservative radar, and you've certainly explained why.

    There were high hopes for Ernst, and taking down democrat shill bruce braley in the election was a good thing b/c braley would have been a disaster and repeat of liberal moron tom harkin.

    But ernst has totally rolled for the big immigration / open borders / chamber of “cheap” labor anti-commerce anti-American wing of the republican party.

    Hope Iowans are paying attention and send her packing after one term.

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  125. @Twinkie

    Wake up! Single women are always on the hunt for the highest price: the wealthy late 30′s early 40′s year old married man.
     
    Um. No. First of all, wealthy families don't use au pairs. They can hire American nannies.

    My wife and I looked into getting an au pair when our older kids were little, but in the end, we ended up hiring a local gal who was studying and saving up to be a nurse to help us for a few days a week. She was fantastic and remains a welcome family friend (she comes to our kids' birthday parties every year and we have her over every holiday as well) But, she was a lot more expensive than an au pair. On top of her wages, we had to pay various taxes plus there was a bit of paper work.

    People who subscribe to au pair programs are middle to upper middle class, not wealthy. They are trying to save money by going the au pair route, rather than hiring an American nanny.

    Also, Brazilian girls aren't looking to hook up with some pot-bellied 40 year old father (let's face it, most American men that age aren't exactly in good shape).

    Au pairs are more upscale now, particularly if you hire a French, German or Japanese one to teach the language to the kids.

    “Also, Brazilian girls aren’t looking to hook up with some pot-bellied 40 year old father (let’s face it, most American men that age aren’t exactly in good shape).”

    That’s what many husbands say to talk their wives into hiring a Brazilian girl! It’s guaranteed sex, I tell you, pot-belly or not. What do you think most Brazilian men look like past thirty years old? The look 65 and finished and spent.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Au pairs are more upscale now, particularly if you hire a French, German or Japanese one to teach the language to the kids.
     
    I don’t think you know anything about au pairs, because French au pairs are rare and Japanese ones are practically nonexistent (East Asians don’t have an au pair culture; most Asian au pairs are Thai).

    I know about a dozen families with au pairs and all of those au pairs have American boyfriends within about 5 years of their age (au pairs are between 18-29). I also know several former au pairs, and they all married their American boyfriends of similar ages. The idea of sexy au pairs having affairs with dads is a middle-age fantasy. It’s extremely rare. Au pairs party a lot and meet plenty of young guys willing to marry and sponsor their green cards without the drama (high chance of being expelled and sent back) of getting involved with host dads.
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  126. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    Posner and Weyl seem to be experts in the dog-walking business, but I wonder how familiar they are with Wheeling, WV. Do they really imagine that any of its 28,000 inhabitants (average income $38,352) are in the habit of hiring other people to walk their dogs?

    Sources:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheeling%2C_West_Virginia https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Location=Wheeling-WV/Salary

    There is a greyhound race track / casino on the island in the Ohio river which is part of the town of Wheeling.

    Maybe they need a dog walker.

    I say we limit future immigration into the United States to a total of one ( 1 ) person, a trained dog walker to keep the Wheeling greyhounds happy.

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  127. @Steve Sailer
    Different Weyls. Nathaniel Weyl died in Ojai at age 95 around 10 or 15 years ago. This is Glenn Weyl, who is much younger. I asked him and he said he wasn't aware of a family connection. There could be one because they'd have been several generations apart, and might not have heard about it, but it wouldn't be close.

    This Posner is the son of Judge Posner, right?

    Indeed he is, even did the same Yale for undergraduate, Harvard for law school route his father did.

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  128. @Twinkie

    Wake up! Single women are always on the hunt for the highest price: the wealthy late 30′s early 40′s year old married man.
     
    Um. No. First of all, wealthy families don't use au pairs. They can hire American nannies.

    My wife and I looked into getting an au pair when our older kids were little, but in the end, we ended up hiring a local gal who was studying and saving up to be a nurse to help us for a few days a week. She was fantastic and remains a welcome family friend (she comes to our kids' birthday parties every year and we have her over every holiday as well) But, she was a lot more expensive than an au pair. On top of her wages, we had to pay various taxes plus there was a bit of paper work.

    People who subscribe to au pair programs are middle to upper middle class, not wealthy. They are trying to save money by going the au pair route, rather than hiring an American nanny.

    Also, Brazilian girls aren't looking to hook up with some pot-bellied 40 year old father (let's face it, most American men that age aren't exactly in good shape).

    Speak for yourself fatass

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Heavy drinking isn't going to do much for your waistline, you know.
    , @Twinkie
    Don’t be silly. Even though I’m close to 50, I’ve been doing Judo for over 40 years. In my heyday, I was a nationally-ranked Judoka and trained with a major Midwestern wrestling team. My weight hasn’t fluctuated by more than 5 lbs. since.
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  129. @AndrewR
    Speak for yourself fatass

    Heavy drinking isn’t going to do much for your waistline, you know.

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  130. @AndrewR
    Speak for yourself fatass

    Don’t be silly. Even though I’m close to 50, I’ve been doing Judo for over 40 years. In my heyday, I was a nationally-ranked Judoka and trained with a major Midwestern wrestling team. My weight hasn’t fluctuated by more than 5 lbs. since.

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  131. @BB753
    Au pairs are more upscale now, particularly if you hire a French, German or Japanese one to teach the language to the kids.

    "Also, Brazilian girls aren’t looking to hook up with some pot-bellied 40 year old father (let’s face it, most American men that age aren’t exactly in good shape)."

    That's what many husbands say to talk their wives into hiring a Brazilian girl! It's guaranteed sex, I tell you, pot-belly or not. What do you think most Brazilian men look like past thirty years old? The look 65 and finished and spent.

    Au pairs are more upscale now, particularly if you hire a French, German or Japanese one to teach the language to the kids.

    I don’t think you know anything about au pairs, because French au pairs are rare and Japanese ones are practically nonexistent (East Asians don’t have an au pair culture; most Asian au pairs are Thai).

    I know about a dozen families with au pairs and all of those au pairs have American boyfriends within about 5 years of their age (au pairs are between 18-29). I also know several former au pairs, and they all married their American boyfriends of similar ages. The idea of sexy au pairs having affairs with dads is a middle-age fantasy. It’s extremely rare. Au pairs party a lot and meet plenty of young guys willing to marry and sponsor their green cards without the drama (high chance of being expelled and sent back) of getting involved with host dads.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Well, I know practically nothing about it, but you seem to be borne out by these people: aupairmom.com/choosing-an-au-pair-how-much-does-the-home-country-matter/2010/04/29/celiaharquail/
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  132. I know Glen. He’s definitely not autistic and he definitely is brilliant.

    But he is very open by nature, and can’t really internalize the fact that other people in this country are not so open by nature and value things like an American identity. He sees borders as arbitrary, oppressive towards people and sources of economic and humanitarian inefficiency. He does not see less open people as having valid points-of-view to be considered. He just thinks those people are missing some magical piece of knowledge that open people like him have. He’s compassionate, but not loyal or empathetic.

    He’s basically what you’d expect a highly open, bleeding heart economist to be like. Wants the best for everyone in the world and wants to get there efficiently — culture and identity be damned.

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  133. @Malcolm X-Lax
    I think they're mocking us (i.e. flyover goyim).

    New Yorkers seem strangely obsessed with West Virginia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @njguy73
    West Virginia is the only instance in our nation's history when Americans did as the Founding Fathers did, and break away from a larger entity to set up their own. In the 1960s there was a minor movement to have NYC become the 51st state, but it went nowhere.

    A bunch of hillbillies did what all the city's smartest couldn't do. And it drives New York fucking nuts.
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  134. @AnotherDad
    Even if you're are one of these autistic libertarians who is indifferent to race and culture in creating a nation, there is a clearly superior libertarian position on immigration--simply create a tradeable property right for national residency.

    For the American case, every American would have the right to trade away their citizenship--more specifically their right to reside in America. The right would have to be age-specific. A 70 year old willing to live in say Costa Rica, doesn't get to sell their right to a 20 year old who wants to come to America. They have only a 70 year old's right, not a younger person's right. But with that age specification ... trade away!

    The result would be that residency would flow to those for whom it had the most value. And it would be no barrier to high value individuals whose presence would actually benefit Americans. Their value would mean they could afford the purchase. If say Microsoft wants some super-duper Indian engineer to work on the Internet of Things, and really want him to be in Redmond, they can just go into the market and buy him a spot, from some American (or non-American resident) ready to leave at the right price. Likewise people who are basically useless to America--and have high time preference--will tend to sell out to someone else, take the money and run.


    Of course, the reason you don't get clamouring for this sort of scheme, is because unlike "open borders!" and "more immigration!" it doesn't settle ethnic scores, nor beat up deplorables, nor bulk up the super-state. Rather its very nature reminds people that they actually *own* the nation. And that's something these open borders types very much do not want people thinking.

    simply create a tradeable property right for national residency.

    I am 100% on board with that.

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  135. @Twinkie

    Wake up! Single women are always on the hunt for the highest price: the wealthy late 30′s early 40′s year old married man.
     
    Um. No. First of all, wealthy families don't use au pairs. They can hire American nannies.

    My wife and I looked into getting an au pair when our older kids were little, but in the end, we ended up hiring a local gal who was studying and saving up to be a nurse to help us for a few days a week. She was fantastic and remains a welcome family friend (she comes to our kids' birthday parties every year and we have her over every holiday as well) But, she was a lot more expensive than an au pair. On top of her wages, we had to pay various taxes plus there was a bit of paper work.

    People who subscribe to au pair programs are middle to upper middle class, not wealthy. They are trying to save money by going the au pair route, rather than hiring an American nanny.

    Also, Brazilian girls aren't looking to hook up with some pot-bellied 40 year old father (let's face it, most American men that age aren't exactly in good shape).

    People who subscribe to au pair programs are middle to upper middle class, not wealthy. They are trying to save money by going the au pair route, rather than hiring an American nanny.

    Are you really this silly? Haven’t you ever heard the old adage that one of the hallmarks of wealth is NEVER paying retail?

    No, it’s not upper-middle -class strivers who hire cheap au pair nannies. They are upper middle class strivers, therefore they pay FULL FREIGHT. On everything. To show off their nouveau wealth money.

    Old Money understands that doing such Status Signaling is silly.

    Hence:

    Old Money hires au pairs.
    Upper Middle Class Striving Nouveau Wealthy hire expensive Americans if they possibly afford to. If they can’t, they go really cheap and hire Chicana illegal aliens.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    To show off their nouveau wealth money.
     
    People in the upper middle class don't have "wealth money," nouveau or otherwise. They are busy financing a decent house, cars, and their kids' education. If they are lucky, they have a good retirement plan/401K. They HAVE TO WORK. Having wealth means now having to worry about working, let alone retirement.

    Old Money hires au pairs.
     
    You don't "hire" an au pair. You sign up with an au pair agency and pay fees. Then you wait, wait, wait, wait, and wait some more until you get a match (usually after some conversations over the phone or nowadays Skype). Then, you pay a small stipend and education fees for the au pair. Of course, let's not forget you have to house the au pair and put up with her socialization (bringing friends and guys home). And then, if miracles of miracles, you end up with a good one, she only stays ONE year. She could renew one more year with you, but not if she wants to try another part of the country. Two years is the absolute maximum you get. In other words, even if you are extraordinarily lucky and get a string of good ones who max out with you, you and your kids have to put up with the instability of putting up with a series of au pairs over the years. The ONLY reason families put up with this is because it is less costly than (legally) hiring nannies.

    If you think that "old money" is going to put up with all that hassle (including having to teach au pairs how to drive) and intrusion into privacy to save a few thousand or tens of thousands of dollars a year, you don't know anything about people with money, old or otherwise.
    , @3g4me
    @135 JSM: "Old Money hires au pairs.
    Upper Middle Class Striving Nouveau Wealthy hire expensive Americans if they possibly afford to. If they can’t, they go really cheap and hire Chicana illegal aliens."

    While the situation varies by location, on the whole Twinkie is right and you and others are wrong. I worked as an au pair/nanny for an extremely wealthy American family the summer between my sophomore and junior years of college (members of The Country Club in Brookline, listed in and used The Social Register quite unironically, etc.) so situation was middle-class American working for upper-class Americans. There weren't too many live-in nannies or au pairs but those there were were all American. Granted, this was some decades ago. FWIW, I also worked as a tutor/dog walker for a wealthy diplomatic family in DC during my first year of grad school. Again, an upper-class neighborhood (Spring Valley) and still no foreign au pairs around (this was a decade later than the Massachusetts summer job but still, admittedly, quite some time ago).

    While I have no personal experience subsequent to these two examples, everyone I've known or heard of who had an au pair or nanny since then has been middle to upper-middle class (again, varies a bit by location) but every last one had a foreign-born and usually minimally educated woman raising their children - Guatemalans, Dominicans, etc.

    My most recent anecdote concerns my older son, who recently dated a young lady from Spain (a genuine "White hispanic" - i.e. a Spanish European!) working as a nanny here in Texas in between college years. Her employers undoubtedly earned more than my family and had a newer home (surviving on one income by choice for years plus paying private school tuition will do that to a family), but still would only be considered middle or upper-middle class. Whole different league than the people I lived with so many years ago (where the grandmother's main and summer homes had actual green baize doors separating the servant quarters and rang a little bell for dinner to be served). From what I heard, her fellow au pairs, all working here in the DFW area, were a mixture of European and Latin American and worked for primarily middle and upper-middle class families.
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  136. @Twinkie

    Au pairs are more upscale now, particularly if you hire a French, German or Japanese one to teach the language to the kids.
     
    I don’t think you know anything about au pairs, because French au pairs are rare and Japanese ones are practically nonexistent (East Asians don’t have an au pair culture; most Asian au pairs are Thai).

    I know about a dozen families with au pairs and all of those au pairs have American boyfriends within about 5 years of their age (au pairs are between 18-29). I also know several former au pairs, and they all married their American boyfriends of similar ages. The idea of sexy au pairs having affairs with dads is a middle-age fantasy. It’s extremely rare. Au pairs party a lot and meet plenty of young guys willing to marry and sponsor their green cards without the drama (high chance of being expelled and sent back) of getting involved with host dads.

    Well, I know practically nothing about it, but you seem to be borne out by these people: aupairmom.com/choosing-an-au-pair-how-much-does-the-home-country-matter/2010/04/29/celiaharquail/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    you seem to be borne out by these people
     
    I don't have an ax to grind here. My wife and I looked into getting an au pair years ago and did extensive research, and didn't in the end, because we thought that the negatives FAR outweighed the benefit. We know families for whom the au pair thing worked out very well. We also know those for whom au pairs were a nightmare (partying, boyfriends, wrecked cars, children neglected, etc.). Some years ago, in my area, there was a bit of a ruckus, because an au pair ran over her charge with a car accidentally. The girl claimed to have driven a lot back home, but actually had no driving experience. Very sad all around.
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  137. @JSM
    People who subscribe to au pair programs are middle to upper middle class, not wealthy. They are trying to save money by going the au pair route, rather than hiring an American nanny.

    Are you really this silly? Haven't you ever heard the old adage that one of the hallmarks of wealth is NEVER paying retail?

    No, it's not upper-middle -class strivers who hire cheap au pair nannies. They are upper middle class strivers, therefore they pay FULL FREIGHT. On everything. To show off their nouveau wealth money.

    Old Money understands that doing such Status Signaling is silly.

    Hence:

    Old Money hires au pairs.
    Upper Middle Class Striving Nouveau Wealthy hire expensive Americans if they possibly afford to. If they can't, they go really cheap and hire Chicana illegal aliens.

    To show off their nouveau wealth money.

    People in the upper middle class don’t have “wealth money,” nouveau or otherwise. They are busy financing a decent house, cars, and their kids’ education. If they are lucky, they have a good retirement plan/401K. They HAVE TO WORK. Having wealth means now having to worry about working, let alone retirement.

    Old Money hires au pairs.

    You don’t “hire” an au pair. You sign up with an au pair agency and pay fees. Then you wait, wait, wait, wait, and wait some more until you get a match (usually after some conversations over the phone or nowadays Skype). Then, you pay a small stipend and education fees for the au pair. Of course, let’s not forget you have to house the au pair and put up with her socialization (bringing friends and guys home). And then, if miracles of miracles, you end up with a good one, she only stays ONE year. She could renew one more year with you, but not if she wants to try another part of the country. Two years is the absolute maximum you get. In other words, even if you are extraordinarily lucky and get a string of good ones who max out with you, you and your kids have to put up with the instability of putting up with a series of au pairs over the years. The ONLY reason families put up with this is because it is less costly than (legally) hiring nannies.

    If you think that “old money” is going to put up with all that hassle (including having to teach au pairs how to drive) and intrusion into privacy to save a few thousand or tens of thousands of dollars a year, you don’t know anything about people with money, old or otherwise.

    Read More
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  138. @Anon
    Well, I know practically nothing about it, but you seem to be borne out by these people: aupairmom.com/choosing-an-au-pair-how-much-does-the-home-country-matter/2010/04/29/celiaharquail/

    you seem to be borne out by these people

    I don’t have an ax to grind here. My wife and I looked into getting an au pair years ago and did extensive research, and didn’t in the end, because we thought that the negatives FAR outweighed the benefit. We know families for whom the au pair thing worked out very well. We also know those for whom au pairs were a nightmare (partying, boyfriends, wrecked cars, children neglected, etc.). Some years ago, in my area, there was a bit of a ruckus, because an au pair ran over her charge with a car accidentally. The girl claimed to have driven a lot back home, but actually had no driving experience. Very sad all around.

    Read More
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  139. @JSM
    People who subscribe to au pair programs are middle to upper middle class, not wealthy. They are trying to save money by going the au pair route, rather than hiring an American nanny.

    Are you really this silly? Haven't you ever heard the old adage that one of the hallmarks of wealth is NEVER paying retail?

    No, it's not upper-middle -class strivers who hire cheap au pair nannies. They are upper middle class strivers, therefore they pay FULL FREIGHT. On everything. To show off their nouveau wealth money.

    Old Money understands that doing such Status Signaling is silly.

    Hence:

    Old Money hires au pairs.
    Upper Middle Class Striving Nouveau Wealthy hire expensive Americans if they possibly afford to. If they can't, they go really cheap and hire Chicana illegal aliens.

    @135 JSM: “Old Money hires au pairs.
    Upper Middle Class Striving Nouveau Wealthy hire expensive Americans if they possibly afford to. If they can’t, they go really cheap and hire Chicana illegal aliens.”

    While the situation varies by location, on the whole Twinkie is right and you and others are wrong. I worked as an au pair/nanny for an extremely wealthy American family the summer between my sophomore and junior years of college (members of The Country Club in Brookline, listed in and used The Social Register quite unironically, etc.) so situation was middle-class American working for upper-class Americans. There weren’t too many live-in nannies or au pairs but those there were were all American. Granted, this was some decades ago. FWIW, I also worked as a tutor/dog walker for a wealthy diplomatic family in DC during my first year of grad school. Again, an upper-class neighborhood (Spring Valley) and still no foreign au pairs around (this was a decade later than the Massachusetts summer job but still, admittedly, quite some time ago).

    While I have no personal experience subsequent to these two examples, everyone I’ve known or heard of who had an au pair or nanny since then has been middle to upper-middle class (again, varies a bit by location) but every last one had a foreign-born and usually minimally educated woman raising their children – Guatemalans, Dominicans, etc.

    My most recent anecdote concerns my older son, who recently dated a young lady from Spain (a genuine “White hispanic” – i.e. a Spanish European!) working as a nanny here in Texas in between college years. Her employers undoubtedly earned more than my family and had a newer home (surviving on one income by choice for years plus paying private school tuition will do that to a family), but still would only be considered middle or upper-middle class. Whole different league than the people I lived with so many years ago (where the grandmother’s main and summer homes had actual green baize doors separating the servant quarters and rang a little bell for dinner to be served). From what I heard, her fellow au pairs, all working here in the DFW area, were a mixture of European and Latin American and worked for primarily middle and upper-middle class families.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    The one quick clarification: an au pair is by definition a foreigner, usually hosted by a family with some degree of nominal “cultural exchange” and in-host country education in mind. Americans working for Americans are nannies and babysitters, usually with a straight forward exchange of wage/benefits and service.
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  140. @Anonymous
    New Yorkers seem strangely obsessed with West Virginia.

    West Virginia is the only instance in our nation’s history when Americans did as the Founding Fathers did, and break away from a larger entity to set up their own. In the 1960s there was a minor movement to have NYC become the 51st state, but it went nowhere.

    A bunch of hillbillies did what all the city’s smartest couldn’t do. And it drives New York fucking nuts.

    Read More
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  141. @3g4me
    @135 JSM: "Old Money hires au pairs.
    Upper Middle Class Striving Nouveau Wealthy hire expensive Americans if they possibly afford to. If they can’t, they go really cheap and hire Chicana illegal aliens."

    While the situation varies by location, on the whole Twinkie is right and you and others are wrong. I worked as an au pair/nanny for an extremely wealthy American family the summer between my sophomore and junior years of college (members of The Country Club in Brookline, listed in and used The Social Register quite unironically, etc.) so situation was middle-class American working for upper-class Americans. There weren't too many live-in nannies or au pairs but those there were were all American. Granted, this was some decades ago. FWIW, I also worked as a tutor/dog walker for a wealthy diplomatic family in DC during my first year of grad school. Again, an upper-class neighborhood (Spring Valley) and still no foreign au pairs around (this was a decade later than the Massachusetts summer job but still, admittedly, quite some time ago).

    While I have no personal experience subsequent to these two examples, everyone I've known or heard of who had an au pair or nanny since then has been middle to upper-middle class (again, varies a bit by location) but every last one had a foreign-born and usually minimally educated woman raising their children - Guatemalans, Dominicans, etc.

    My most recent anecdote concerns my older son, who recently dated a young lady from Spain (a genuine "White hispanic" - i.e. a Spanish European!) working as a nanny here in Texas in between college years. Her employers undoubtedly earned more than my family and had a newer home (surviving on one income by choice for years plus paying private school tuition will do that to a family), but still would only be considered middle or upper-middle class. Whole different league than the people I lived with so many years ago (where the grandmother's main and summer homes had actual green baize doors separating the servant quarters and rang a little bell for dinner to be served). From what I heard, her fellow au pairs, all working here in the DFW area, were a mixture of European and Latin American and worked for primarily middle and upper-middle class families.

    The one quick clarification: an au pair is by definition a foreigner, usually hosted by a family with some degree of nominal “cultural exchange” and in-host country education in mind. Americans working for Americans are nannies and babysitters, usually with a straight forward exchange of wage/benefits and service.

    Read More
    • Replies: @3g4me
    @140 Twinkie: "The one quick clarification: an au pair is by definition a foreigner, usually hosted by a family with some degree of nominal “cultural exchange” and in-host country education in mind. Americans working for Americans are nannies and babysitters, usually with a straight forward exchange of wage/benefits and service."

    Valid point. I blur the lines because I did function as an au pair in many ways - although I was paid, I was treated very much as a member of the family in other aspects, and there were a few foreign au pairs around at that time - just not as much with the genuinely upper-class people I worked for. I also got both jobs via alum connections - these people were not going through employment agencies but rather friends and neighbors looking for contacts.

    One further personal example I neglected to mention was that I worked as a nanny for a British diplomat in Moscow. My Fulbright grant had run its course (although I was supposed to be writing my graduate thesis) and I didn't want to return to the US, so I utilized my long-term babysitting experience/skills and applied with a number of agencies in the UK and replied to various ads for nannies/au pairs in "The Lady" magazine. I would imagine that's all online these days, but that was a publication filled with legitimate au pair/nanny/companion ads from Europe and around the world. I didn't get the impression that most prospective employers were extremely wealthy, although I suppose a number might have been considered upper-class by an American due to values, education, and lifestyle. I was offered positions in Copenhagen, Western Canada, and elsewhere, but picked the Moscow job because I had been a double major in college (English Lit/Russian Civ). Anyhow, the gentleman I worked for had a brother in London we visited with, and his family had a legitimate au pair from Italy. Again, very middle class home/lifestyle by American standards, although I suppose by English standards of the time they might have been upper class (owned their own stand-alone home) and their father had been very comfortable.

    All that to reaffirm that you are correct - most people who hire au pairs or nannies (particularly in the US) are striving middle to upper-middle class families. Genuinely upper class people, at least in the past, wanted Americans and not Latinas raising their children, even for just a summer.
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  142. @Twinkie
    The one quick clarification: an au pair is by definition a foreigner, usually hosted by a family with some degree of nominal “cultural exchange” and in-host country education in mind. Americans working for Americans are nannies and babysitters, usually with a straight forward exchange of wage/benefits and service.

    @140 Twinkie: “The one quick clarification: an au pair is by definition a foreigner, usually hosted by a family with some degree of nominal “cultural exchange” and in-host country education in mind. Americans working for Americans are nannies and babysitters, usually with a straight forward exchange of wage/benefits and service.”

    Valid point. I blur the lines because I did function as an au pair in many ways – although I was paid, I was treated very much as a member of the family in other aspects, and there were a few foreign au pairs around at that time – just not as much with the genuinely upper-class people I worked for. I also got both jobs via alum connections – these people were not going through employment agencies but rather friends and neighbors looking for contacts.

    One further personal example I neglected to mention was that I worked as a nanny for a British diplomat in Moscow. My Fulbright grant had run its course (although I was supposed to be writing my graduate thesis) and I didn’t want to return to the US, so I utilized my long-term babysitting experience/skills and applied with a number of agencies in the UK and replied to various ads for nannies/au pairs in “The Lady” magazine. I would imagine that’s all online these days, but that was a publication filled with legitimate au pair/nanny/companion ads from Europe and around the world. I didn’t get the impression that most prospective employers were extremely wealthy, although I suppose a number might have been considered upper-class by an American due to values, education, and lifestyle. I was offered positions in Copenhagen, Western Canada, and elsewhere, but picked the Moscow job because I had been a double major in college (English Lit/Russian Civ). Anyhow, the gentleman I worked for had a brother in London we visited with, and his family had a legitimate au pair from Italy. Again, very middle class home/lifestyle by American standards, although I suppose by English standards of the time they might have been upper class (owned their own stand-alone home) and their father had been very comfortable.

    All that to reaffirm that you are correct – most people who hire au pairs or nannies (particularly in the US) are striving middle to upper-middle class families. Genuinely upper class people, at least in the past, wanted Americans and not Latinas raising their children, even for just a summer.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    All that to reaffirm that you are correct
     
    Thanks.
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  143. @3g4me
    @140 Twinkie: "The one quick clarification: an au pair is by definition a foreigner, usually hosted by a family with some degree of nominal “cultural exchange” and in-host country education in mind. Americans working for Americans are nannies and babysitters, usually with a straight forward exchange of wage/benefits and service."

    Valid point. I blur the lines because I did function as an au pair in many ways - although I was paid, I was treated very much as a member of the family in other aspects, and there were a few foreign au pairs around at that time - just not as much with the genuinely upper-class people I worked for. I also got both jobs via alum connections - these people were not going through employment agencies but rather friends and neighbors looking for contacts.

    One further personal example I neglected to mention was that I worked as a nanny for a British diplomat in Moscow. My Fulbright grant had run its course (although I was supposed to be writing my graduate thesis) and I didn't want to return to the US, so I utilized my long-term babysitting experience/skills and applied with a number of agencies in the UK and replied to various ads for nannies/au pairs in "The Lady" magazine. I would imagine that's all online these days, but that was a publication filled with legitimate au pair/nanny/companion ads from Europe and around the world. I didn't get the impression that most prospective employers were extremely wealthy, although I suppose a number might have been considered upper-class by an American due to values, education, and lifestyle. I was offered positions in Copenhagen, Western Canada, and elsewhere, but picked the Moscow job because I had been a double major in college (English Lit/Russian Civ). Anyhow, the gentleman I worked for had a brother in London we visited with, and his family had a legitimate au pair from Italy. Again, very middle class home/lifestyle by American standards, although I suppose by English standards of the time they might have been upper class (owned their own stand-alone home) and their father had been very comfortable.

    All that to reaffirm that you are correct - most people who hire au pairs or nannies (particularly in the US) are striving middle to upper-middle class families. Genuinely upper class people, at least in the past, wanted Americans and not Latinas raising their children, even for just a summer.

    All that to reaffirm that you are correct

    Thanks.

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  144. @International Jew

    That’s a fast way to destroy existing dog walking services and put all the American dog walkers out of work.
     
    Yup. And entrepreneurial Mary too, as soon as the big boys move into the dog-walking business.

    As long as dog walkers are Americans just picking up an extra buck, there's not much scope for economies of scale. But create a program like Posner&Weyl propose, and you'll have experienced operators grabbing the visas wholesale and setting up dormitories to house and feed the dogwalkers by the thousand. If Mary still has a place in the dogwalking business after that, it'll be as a dogwalker herself, competing with Bangladeshis for a life at the subsistence level.

    Mary will benefit about as much as poor white southerners "benefited" from slavery.

    Mary will be in the same position as cabbies when Uber started. Then the gig is overrun, and everyone is making Neal Stepehenson’s “…once the Invisible Hand has taken away all those historical inequities and smeared them out into a broad global layer of what a Pakistani brickmaker would consider to be prosperity…”

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