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A reader writes:

As to why weight lifters are more likely to be Republican than joggers, I’d think that this is a combination of cultural factors (those seeking bigger muscles are buying into a more traditional definition of masculinity) and also that the joggers are less likely to have felt a profound physical change; they’re more likely jogging as a way of maintaining, or preventing negative change, rather than to become something completely different from what they were before. Simply, jogging doesn’t create the same feeling of mastery over the body that muscle-building does.

Just wanted to give you an “atta boy” on being literally the only person I’ve seen commenting on this issue at all.

Long term, I think the Republicans could likely win themselves many voters by backing various community health initiatives, but not of the heavy-handed “Let’s tax soda!” variety. Democrats will generally get into things like having public body weight gyms (like Muscle Beach), and the tiny percentage of Americans that go from obese to healthy will likely veer more conservative than they were before.

The perhaps last-ever Republican governor of California moved there in large part because FDR’s Works Progress Administration built a gymnastics and weightlifting facility next to Santa Monica pier in 1934, Muscle Beach.

 
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  1. Weight lifting is easy to link to “toxic masculinity,” which is a probable reason that it might not be as popular among Democrats.

    I would respectfully disagree with the reader’s comment above. Both weightlifting, which I started in high school, and running, which I started about 10 years ago, had a profound, positive chance on my physical and mental wellbeing. I do however agree with the commenter that encouraging more exercise might make people more conservative. I think an argument can be made that there are many “conservative” lessons to be learned from running.

    - There are no quick fixes in life. Improvement takes time and effort.
    - Having said this, effort is rewarded, with a high correlation between the effort spend and reward reaped.
    - Perhaps most importantly, life isn’t fair. There are many people who put much less effort into running than I do, but are much faster than I am. That’s not a reason for giving up, though. Complaining rarely fixes anything, effort almost always does.

    As in politics, the best course of action is to avoid the extremes and do both strength training and aerobic training.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    I personally like lifting up (and dropping) other people: https://youtu.be/oKz4VS-P8-w

    It's much more satisfying than just lifting inanimate objects. Also, it teaches you another conservative lesson: in life, there are winners and there are losers.
    , @prosa123
    "Weight lifting is easy to link to toxic masculinity"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=490jsAnGxe0
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    Finally someone else that likes both weightlifting and running!
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  2. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Democrats will generally get into things like having public body weight gyms (like Muscle Beach), and the tiny percentage of Americans that go from obese to healthy will likely veer more conservative than they were before.”

    This is ingenious. Unfortunately, I can’t think of any existing politician liable to support it. But maybe that gives opportunities to newcomers.

    Well, maybe Trump could somehow enlist Arnold. Maybe he’d go for it.

    Read More
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  3. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    The reader is probably right with respect to “jogging”, but I don’t think there are a lot of admitted joggers today; instead, there are runners. Long distance runners (and bicyclists, e.g., Howard Schultz) do seem to lean left.

    Military officers lean right, obviously, and they all have to run (middle distance), but they’re different animals. No one would have confused the chain smoking, Polish emigre attack helicopter pilot who led my school’s Army ROTC department with, say, John Legere.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    According to a friend who was a college distance runner, if you can't do a marathon in 3 1/2 hours or less, it doesn't matter what you call yourself, you're a jogger!
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  4. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    I just came across an interesting bit of information about androgen receptors and exercise. The amount of androgen receptors in your legs is fixed. But the amount above your waist can increase with upper body exercise. In other words, jogging doesn’t change anything hormonal in you, but lifting does.

    Read More
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  5. Twinkie says:
    @NJ Transit Commuter
    Weight lifting is easy to link to "toxic masculinity," which is a probable reason that it might not be as popular among Democrats.

    I would respectfully disagree with the reader's comment above. Both weightlifting, which I started in high school, and running, which I started about 10 years ago, had a profound, positive chance on my physical and mental wellbeing. I do however agree with the commenter that encouraging more exercise might make people more conservative. I think an argument can be made that there are many "conservative" lessons to be learned from running.

    - There are no quick fixes in life. Improvement takes time and effort.
    - Having said this, effort is rewarded, with a high correlation between the effort spend and reward reaped.
    - Perhaps most importantly, life isn't fair. There are many people who put much less effort into running than I do, but are much faster than I am. That's not a reason for giving up, though. Complaining rarely fixes anything, effort almost always does.

    As in politics, the best course of action is to avoid the extremes and do both strength training and aerobic training.

    I personally like lifting up (and dropping) other people: https://youtu.be/oKz4VS-P8-w

    It’s much more satisfying than just lifting inanimate objects. Also, it teaches you another conservative lesson: in life, there are winners and there are losers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    I enjoyed studying judo when I was 10. Haven't kept up with it in recent years, because it usually looks so sloppy and terrible. Except for the #1 there, I'm surprised some of the rest of those were Ippons.
    , @SteveRogers42
    #3.

    Ho Li Phuc.
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  6. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Twinkie
    I personally like lifting up (and dropping) other people: https://youtu.be/oKz4VS-P8-w

    It's much more satisfying than just lifting inanimate objects. Also, it teaches you another conservative lesson: in life, there are winners and there are losers.

    I enjoyed studying judo when I was 10. Haven’t kept up with it in recent years, because it usually looks so sloppy and terrible. Except for the #1 there, I’m surprised some of the rest of those were Ippons.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I enjoyed studying judo when I was 10.
     
    And how long did you train?

    Haven’t kept up with it in recent years, because it usually looks so sloppy and terrible.
     
    What is "it" in this sentence? The whole Judo world? USA Judo? Your local club?

    Except for the #1 there, I’m surprised some of the rest of those were Ippons.
     
    Have you ever been to high level tournaments?
    , @SteveRogers42
    I think it might look sloppy to you because it's not a display of the classical program of throws taught at the Junior level. The sport has become much more athletic over the years, with improvisation and power trumping technical expertise. For instance, it would be difficult to put a name from the classical curriculum to ippon #3 (I propose calling it "fvck 'em up-jitsu"), but all the throws in this clip meet the criteria for a full ippon: putting the opponent directly on his back with a crisply-executed legal technique.
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  7. Twinkie says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    I enjoyed studying judo when I was 10. Haven't kept up with it in recent years, because it usually looks so sloppy and terrible. Except for the #1 there, I'm surprised some of the rest of those were Ippons.

    I enjoyed studying judo when I was 10.

    And how long did you train?

    Haven’t kept up with it in recent years, because it usually looks so sloppy and terrible.

    What is “it” in this sentence? The whole Judo world? USA Judo? Your local club?

    Except for the #1 there, I’m surprised some of the rest of those were Ippons.

    Have you ever been to high level tournaments?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pat Casey
    Are you trying to tell us you're not a twink, Twinkie?
    , @Dave Pinsen

    And how long did you train?
     
    2 or 3 years, something like that. I still remember how to do some of the throws, and it probably helped my balance in the future.

    What is “it” in this sentence? The whole Judo world? USA Judo? Your local club?
     
    The whole Judo world.

    Have you ever been to high level tournaments?
     
    I have not, but I've seen Olympic judo on TV.
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  8. prosa123 says: • Website
    @NJ Transit Commuter
    Weight lifting is easy to link to "toxic masculinity," which is a probable reason that it might not be as popular among Democrats.

    I would respectfully disagree with the reader's comment above. Both weightlifting, which I started in high school, and running, which I started about 10 years ago, had a profound, positive chance on my physical and mental wellbeing. I do however agree with the commenter that encouraging more exercise might make people more conservative. I think an argument can be made that there are many "conservative" lessons to be learned from running.

    - There are no quick fixes in life. Improvement takes time and effort.
    - Having said this, effort is rewarded, with a high correlation between the effort spend and reward reaped.
    - Perhaps most importantly, life isn't fair. There are many people who put much less effort into running than I do, but are much faster than I am. That's not a reason for giving up, though. Complaining rarely fixes anything, effort almost always does.

    As in politics, the best course of action is to avoid the extremes and do both strength training and aerobic training.

    “Weight lifting is easy to link to toxic masculinity”

    Read More
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    I find muscular women to be reprllent.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    I think the one on the left is a dude. The one on the right might be a woman, the face, breasts, and hips, point that direction. But how can we know without more information?
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  9. Jogging is a feel-good activity that is largely destructive to much of one’s body. Perfect liberal sport.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dr kill
    Yes.
    , @Olorin
    I ran in college and played casual tennis for social reasons in addition to the then and ongoing hockey, backpacking, cycling, x-c ski, and whatever the guys were playing that didn't involve head injuries. Usually baseball or casual hoops.

    The hardest thing on my body, ever, was the month or two I went jogging with this gal I liked. I hurt worse in the third week than I ever did going up or coming down from 14,000 feet and never got a good workout, even running with 10 lb hand weights as was recommended. But I always did better with sprint-patterned workouts anyway.
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  10. Just (genuinely) curious: how many bikers (i.e. spandex and pedals bikers, not denim jacket and Harley bikers) are conservative? I’ve never met one.

    Read More
    • Replies: @International Jew
    Spandex and pedals biker, haha. Yeah, I'm that kind of biker. And yeah, it does trend leftward. It helps to believe in the basic goodness of mankind, since you're counting on not being squashed by all those cars that overtake you.

    I ride for sport, though. I'm not a bike commuter. I suspect bike commuters are more leftwing yet. They're risking their lives to save the planet...that's my sense of it anyway. Plus, the most bikeable cities are college towns.


     I’ve never met one.
     Well, now you have!

    , @CK
    Entitled little twits, packs of them clog the two lane roads every weekend. Of course they are progressives.
    , @Logan
    Raises hand...

    Though I carefully avoid the spandex look, so possibly I don't count.
    , @biz
    At the very expensive end of hobby cycling (frames > $3000, organized week-long package vacation rides in destinations, etc) there are some hardcore libertarian types (for obvious reasons).
    , @Weltanschauung
    I've been bicycling to the office and on errands, wearing ordinary clothes, all my life, since long before my SWPL city government adopted bicycle-friendly streets as a trendy cause. The one-way street I have ridden home on for the past ten years recently changed from two lanes of traffic to one lane of cars and one lane of bicycles. As I zip home in the bike lane past a stalled line of cars, I want to make a hand gesture that will mean "Sorry, everybody, I never asked for this, I only ever wanted get home in one piece!"

    For what it's worth, I used to run long distances and vote Democratic, and now I lift weights and don't much feel like voting for anybody.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    I have a friend who is, but he's a mountain biker. I think he got into it originally has an off season sport because he's a big skier.
    , @Brutusale
    There's my girlfriend, former college swimmer and avid cyclist. She made some heads explode just last night at a "holiday" party with a bunch of lefties by bringing a couple bottles of Trump wine (the red is awful, the white is mediocre).

    And yes, Spandex is OK...on the right person. Which she is. Which I am most definitely not, but I bought bike shorts that are sewn into a pair of regular gym shorts.

    https://scontent.fbos1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12243469_10205184342074724_6404667784045009889_n.jpg?oh=4973ce34b4476e6c8ee429c2f89bf61b&oe=5AD38A91


    https://scontent.fbos1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25445898_10210705428858443_5867171073679599138_n.jpg?oh=584f7f3568e74d2d842f8fc57ca90ea5&oe=5A8B5A93

    Photos are the start and finish of a charity bike ride from Boston to Provincetown 2 weeks after her 55th birthday. She hits the weights pretty hard, too, but she's also been lifting since high school and has never stopped. We met at the gym.

    But she's too manly looking, right, Troofie?
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  11. Just wanted to give you an “atta boy” on being literally the only person I’ve seen commenting on this issue at all.

    You can find plenty of comments on this issue over at The Best Website In The World,

    https://startingstrength.com

    Read More
    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    Rippetoe also used to contributed to PJM, but I'm not sure if he does anymore. Glenn Reynolds of Instapundit worships him.
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  12. .

    Read More
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  13. @The Last Real Calvinist
    Just (genuinely) curious: how many bikers (i.e. spandex and pedals bikers, not denim jacket and Harley bikers) are conservative? I've never met one.

    Spandex and pedals biker, haha. Yeah, I’m that kind of biker. And yeah, it does trend leftward. It helps to believe in the basic goodness of mankind, since you’re counting on not being squashed by all those cars that overtake you.

    I ride for sport, though. I’m not a bike commuter. I suspect bike commuters are more leftwing yet. They’re risking their lives to save the planet…that’s my sense of it anyway. Plus, the most bikeable cities are college towns.

    I’ve never met one.

    Well, now you have!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    I'm another. I used to bicycle a lot until we got a dog that needs to go on a hike every day, so now I do that. It used to annoy me that PJ O'Rourke would tar all bicyclists with the Progressive brush. In his 1987 book, Republican Party Reptile, he wrote:

    I don’t like the kind of people who ride bicycles.
    At least I think I don’t. I don’t actually know anyone who rides a bicycle. But the people I see on bicycles look like organic-gardening zealots who advocate federal regulation of bedtime and want American foreign policy to be dictated by UNICEF. These people should be confined.
     
    O'Rourke may not believe it, but I never felt I was making a political statement when I rode my bike, just doing something I enjoyed. Anyway, O'Rourke is a Never-Trumping Cuck so who cares what he thinks.
    , @The Alarmist
    Try being a conservative or dissident-right surfer.
    , @The Last Real Calvinist
    It's good to meet you, Biker IJ.

    I agree with your insight into most bikers expecting the best out of human nature. The problem is, when they are inevitably disappointed, they react not with equanimity, knowing the crooked timber of which we're all made, but instead with fury at the failure of utopia to be made manifest on the roads.

    I live in Hong Kong, where biking on the roads requires either profound faith in the way you describe it, or else utter fatalistic resignation. Some parts of the city do have extensive bike paths, though, including my own neighborhood. Recently we've also seen the rapid introduction of bike share companies, which provide pretty decent bikes (3-speed; solidly-built) for the extremely reasonable charge of about 75 US cents per hour. You rent them via an app on your phone. Mrs Calvinist and I have started taking some short bike rides as a result; it's quite enjoyable.

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  14. dr kill says:
    @The Alarmist
    Jogging is a feel-good activity that is largely destructive to much of one's body. Perfect liberal sport.

    Yes.

    Read More
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  15. Pat Casey says:
    @Twinkie

    I enjoyed studying judo when I was 10.
     
    And how long did you train?

    Haven’t kept up with it in recent years, because it usually looks so sloppy and terrible.
     
    What is "it" in this sentence? The whole Judo world? USA Judo? Your local club?

    Except for the #1 there, I’m surprised some of the rest of those were Ippons.
     
    Have you ever been to high level tournaments?

    Are you trying to tell us you’re not a twink, Twinkie?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    This Twinkie: https://goo.gl/images/j88fDx

    Not whatever deviancy that inhabits your mind.

    I’ve trained in Judo for forty years. Dave Pinsen’s claim is like some random guy looking at NBA players playing basketball and saying, “Meh. I played basketball in elementary school. I stopped because it’s all sloppy and terrible now. Are those even real dunks?”
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  16. Glenn Reynolds (instapundit) seems to lean further to the hard right as he gets more jacked from hanging with Mark Rippetoe. He tries to hide it, but….

    Read More
    • Replies: @WHAT
    Which is interesting, considering Rippetoe himself is a centrist libertarian.
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  17. Arclight says:

    Maybe it’s just the local demographic, but at my Crossfit gym (which also has an Olympic weightlifting program) I would say the politics definitely skew left, not right. So although I would instinctually buy into the idea that people who work out a lot – as opposed to runners and cyclists – are more likely to be conservative, I haven’t personally seen it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    There are a couple of points.

    First, Crossfit appeals to SWPLs, who are mostly hardcore liberals to begin with. As they start Crossfit, are they perhaps getting less left-wing than they had been before?

    Second, though Crossfit does contain a lot of lifting, it's basically strength-endurance, rather than strength. At least the Oly lifts are done for repetitions, as are the pullups (with kipping), the kettlebell snatches, etc. (Maybe they do some of them for one rep max, like the deadlift?)
    , @ScarletNumber
    Crossfit is a fad, and fads and SWPL's have a positive correlation.
    , @SteveRogers42
    Aren't most Crossfit workouts named after KIA SpecOps guys?
    , @The Last Real Calvinist
    I get this feeling that crossfit has an Olde Tyme-y vibe that lots of SJWs and hipsters eat right up, like funny beards and retro appliances.

    Recently, in addition to doing lots of walking and hiking, I've been using one of those phone apps that take you through a short (10-15 minutes) high intensity workout with crunches, push-ups, squats, burpees, and the like. I find it's pretty effective, and if it's not enjoyable (it's not, for sure), at least it's over quickly.

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  18. CK says:
    @The Last Real Calvinist
    Just (genuinely) curious: how many bikers (i.e. spandex and pedals bikers, not denim jacket and Harley bikers) are conservative? I've never met one.

    Entitled little twits, packs of them clog the two lane roads every weekend. Of course they are progressives.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bikehogs
    It never quite occurred to me than my annoyance with spandex bikers had any political tinge to it but now I can see it. You want to just yell at the exhibitionist swpl to get out of the road.
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  19. Logan says:
    @The Last Real Calvinist
    Just (genuinely) curious: how many bikers (i.e. spandex and pedals bikers, not denim jacket and Harley bikers) are conservative? I've never met one.

    Raises hand…

    Though I carefully avoid the spandex look, so possibly I don’t count.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    Though I carefully avoid the spandex look, so possibly I don’t count.

     

    I don't think you do. The outfit is an important part of what I've got in mind, for sure.
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  20. charlie says:

    I’d say the entire comment is in a time bubble.

    I don’t think anyone has been fighting the weightlifting vs. jogging wars since the first Reagan administration.

    Crossfit vs. marathoners? Ultramarathoners vs. 5K? Barre vs soulcycle?

    Come one. It is like saying that Cadillac depended on Jewish sales because jews didn’t want to buy German cars. That ended a long time ago.

    Fat Matt Yglesias had an insight a few years ago, that the type of exercise was pretty immaterial for weight loss. It was what you ate.

    Read More
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  21. @MichaelRolls

    Just wanted to give you an “atta boy” on being literally the only person I’ve seen commenting on this issue at all.
     
    You can find plenty of comments on this issue over at The Best Website In The World,
    https://startingstrength.com

    Rippetoe also used to contributed to PJM, but I’m not sure if he does anymore. Glenn Reynolds of Instapundit worships him.

    Read More
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  22. WHAT says:
    @william munny
    Glenn Reynolds (instapundit) seems to lean further to the hard right as he gets more jacked from hanging with Mark Rippetoe. He tries to hide it, but....

    Which is interesting, considering Rippetoe himself is a centrist libertarian.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    As is Reynolds.
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  23. This comment by Nassim Nicholas Taleb seems relevant:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Speaking of Taleb,

    https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/937080606248325121
    , @McFly
    I had a similar experience during election season last year.

    Political discussion broke out in the chain franchise gym location I work out at. About 15 people in the gym, mostly men but a couple women, more lifter-oriented group than runners, and every single one there was a Trump voter.

    A little surprising to see that in in a Midwestern county that Trump won 60-40.

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  24. As a younger man I lifted weights to get chicks, brah. I imagine that many younger men do so for a similar reason, regardless of politics.

    As a near middle aged man now I lift weights to be strong and avoid injury. Cross-fit and running are fine, but those are a young man’s training regimen. High impact training leads to injury of the lower joints, especially as one gets older, and especially if one is 6’4″ and 240 pounds. Plantar fasciitis , shin splints, knee pain, lower back pain, all consequences of running. I am not pigeon toed or bow legged; and I have good arches. I tried cycling but became aware that bicycle seats negatively affect blood flow in the crotch and was it was creating pain in both shoulders. Lower back pain continued. Weight lifting it was.

    Weight lifting increases strength and cardiovascular conditioning, as well as bone density. It lowers blood pressure (not while lifting, obviously) and promotes test production. All of the previous things suffer as one gets older. It is also low impact and if one sticks to the basic compound movements, and avoids “ego lifting”, the risk of injury is minimal.

    Read More
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  25. biz says:
    @The Last Real Calvinist
    Just (genuinely) curious: how many bikers (i.e. spandex and pedals bikers, not denim jacket and Harley bikers) are conservative? I've never met one.

    At the very expensive end of hobby cycling (frames > $3000, organized week-long package vacation rides in destinations, etc) there are some hardcore libertarian types (for obvious reasons).

    Read More
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  26. @International Jew
    Spandex and pedals biker, haha. Yeah, I'm that kind of biker. And yeah, it does trend leftward. It helps to believe in the basic goodness of mankind, since you're counting on not being squashed by all those cars that overtake you.

    I ride for sport, though. I'm not a bike commuter. I suspect bike commuters are more leftwing yet. They're risking their lives to save the planet...that's my sense of it anyway. Plus, the most bikeable cities are college towns.


     I’ve never met one.
     Well, now you have!

    I’m another. I used to bicycle a lot until we got a dog that needs to go on a hike every day, so now I do that. It used to annoy me that PJ O’Rourke would tar all bicyclists with the Progressive brush. In his 1987 book, Republican Party Reptile, he wrote:

    I don’t like the kind of people who ride bicycles.
    At least I think I don’t. I don’t actually know anyone who rides a bicycle. But the people I see on bicycles look like organic-gardening zealots who advocate federal regulation of bedtime and want American foreign policy to be dictated by UNICEF. These people should be confined.

    O’Rourke may not believe it, but I never felt I was making a political statement when I rode my bike, just doing something I enjoyed. Anyway, O’Rourke is a Never-Trumping Cuck so who cares what he thinks.

    Read More
    • Agree: AndrewR
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  27. @Arclight
    Maybe it's just the local demographic, but at my Crossfit gym (which also has an Olympic weightlifting program) I would say the politics definitely skew left, not right. So although I would instinctually buy into the idea that people who work out a lot - as opposed to runners and cyclists - are more likely to be conservative, I haven't personally seen it.

    There are a couple of points.

    First, Crossfit appeals to SWPLs, who are mostly hardcore liberals to begin with. As they start Crossfit, are they perhaps getting less left-wing than they had been before?

    Second, though Crossfit does contain a lot of lifting, it’s basically strength-endurance, rather than strength. At least the Oly lifts are done for repetitions, as are the pullups (with kipping), the kettlebell snatches, etc. (Maybe they do some of them for one rep max, like the deadlift?)

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    • Replies: @Arclight
    I think your second point is fairly legit, although the programming varies a lot from place to place. My home gym has a strength portion in every session before the workout of the day and the cycle is geared towards increasing your 1 RM on the major lifts, but some gyms focus more on the cardio portion or don't really go that heavy on the lifts.

    As for who it appeals to I am not sure I agree with you - a pretty high percentage of the people at my gym were competitive HS or college athletes looking for a way to continue to do something challenging, and that doesn't seem to fit my mental image of the typical SWPL. Those people tend to be runners, cyclists, or maybe Orange Theory/Soul Cycle type places.
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  28. @International Jew
    Spandex and pedals biker, haha. Yeah, I'm that kind of biker. And yeah, it does trend leftward. It helps to believe in the basic goodness of mankind, since you're counting on not being squashed by all those cars that overtake you.

    I ride for sport, though. I'm not a bike commuter. I suspect bike commuters are more leftwing yet. They're risking their lives to save the planet...that's my sense of it anyway. Plus, the most bikeable cities are college towns.


     I’ve never met one.
     Well, now you have!

    Try being a conservative or dissident-right surfer.

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    • Replies: @Ivy
    My daughter and her boyfriend both surf and are on the Right. They stick to discussions about waves, breaks and technique when on the water, and then on where to eat afterwards. Many find surfing to be a great exercise physically, mentally and spiritually.
    , @SteveRogers42
    Jocko surfs.

    https://twitter.com/jockowillink/status/823941043804508160?lang=en

    Probably doesn't catch a lot of grief.
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  29. L Woods says:

    Lifting is boring, time consuming and heavily dependent upon having the right genetics to see results. Distance running is all of that plus physically destructive (most effective endorphin generator however). The best compromise is high intensity intervals, but that’s difficult to do in an urban environment lacking in open spaces. It’s a problem.

    And yes, the military loves running. Even the Air Force. Probably explains the mounting craven conformity of its members as you move up the rank structure.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    I don't find lifting boring. I'm always a little nervous when I walk into the gym, because I've set myself a challenge for that day for my main lift. Then on days when I do assistance work and push the sled, I superset all that stuff, so I'm too busy catching my breath to be bored.

    You can do high intensity interval training in a gym in urban areas: Tabata work on a rowing machine, for example, or sets of kettlebells, bag work, etc.
    , @Rod1963
    Actually lifting can benefit everyone. Any guy can get decent results and it doesn't take that long with the proper diet and routine that takes a 1/2 hour 3x a week. As with anything else, it's what you put into it that counts.

    And it's not boring if you like challenges.
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  30. psmith says:

    How the Other Half Lifts: What Your Workout Says About Your Social Class
    (from Dan Duane): https://psmag.com/social-justice/half-lifts-workout-says-social-class-85221

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  31. psmith says:

    Long term, I think the Republicans could likely win themselves many voters by backing various community health initiatives, but not of the heavy-handed “Let’s tax soda!” variety. Democrats will generally get into things like having public body weight gyms (like Muscle Beach), and the tiny percentage of Americans that go from obese to healthy will likely veer more conservative than they were before.

    BAP for secretary of health and human services! Vast government-sponsored pineapple plantations and mandatory tanning breaks! u must SUBMIT!

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  32. As a lifelong weight lifter, vast majority of hardcore weightlifters I have trained with are to the right. We do look at Cross fitters as wimps. They use the fake looking plates (at least the ones at my LifeTime are large light plates) and seems like a lot of effort for little gain. they seem to get injured a lot also. They would not last a week training with us.

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    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    I'm really digging Crossfit. The people i see there have incredible physiques; I wouldn't criticize anything about it. So what if they can't lift as much? Also, it's got quite a few police and firemen that participate.

    Those that get injuries seem to get them doing other activities, like the weekend marathon or some such.
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  33. @Arclight
    Maybe it's just the local demographic, but at my Crossfit gym (which also has an Olympic weightlifting program) I would say the politics definitely skew left, not right. So although I would instinctually buy into the idea that people who work out a lot - as opposed to runners and cyclists - are more likely to be conservative, I haven't personally seen it.

    Crossfit is a fad, and fads and SWPL’s have a positive correlation.

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  34. @The Last Real Calvinist
    Just (genuinely) curious: how many bikers (i.e. spandex and pedals bikers, not denim jacket and Harley bikers) are conservative? I've never met one.

    I’ve been bicycling to the office and on errands, wearing ordinary clothes, all my life, since long before my SWPL city government adopted bicycle-friendly streets as a trendy cause. The one-way street I have ridden home on for the past ten years recently changed from two lanes of traffic to one lane of cars and one lane of bicycles. As I zip home in the bike lane past a stalled line of cars, I want to make a hand gesture that will mean “Sorry, everybody, I never asked for this, I only ever wanted get home in one piece!”

    For what it’s worth, I used to run long distances and vote Democratic, and now I lift weights and don’t much feel like voting for anybody.

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  35. @prosa123
    "Weight lifting is easy to link to toxic masculinity"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=490jsAnGxe0

    I find muscular women to be reprllent.

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  36. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    What about muscle worship?

    Read More
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  37. Lion of the Blogosphere has discussed this topic before. I was surprised to see the number of comments to the effect that long-distance runners and cyclists are left wing. Is this an American thing? As as teenager (in England) I was a member of a running club, and in my current job I chat with fellow cyclists in the locker room. Neither pastime had or has the slightest left-wing association; although I suppose cycling has become associated somewhat with environmentalism and middle class do-goodery. But generally cyclists are just people who want to save money on their daily commute, get fit, or enjoy being part of a club.

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    • Replies: @Wency
    I have to wonder how much of this is a rural/urban divide. Or more specifically, urban and dense suburban vs. sprawling suburban/exurban/rural.

    I have spent most of my life living in sprawling places where riding a bike as a means of transportation was impractical, for kids or adults. As a result, I never learned to ride a bike particularly well. Not coincidentally, those places all voted heavily Republican.

    In addition, big cities often have marathons and a marathon culture that develops around training for that marathon. Small towns do not have this.

    I haven't spent much time in rural England, but my sense is that "rural" towns are often denser than many American big-city suburbs, such that bicycling to the store might actually be practical.

    Now, it might be that even within big cities, bicyclists and marathoners are more likely to lean leftward, but that could just imply that those people are more likely to have been born and raised in such a place, or to have more thoroughly embraced the culture after moving there from a Republican suburb or small town.

    I know a guy who moved to a major city from a small town but continued his duck hunting hobby. Guess which way he voted? Contrast that with people who moved to the big city and adopted big city hobbies -- more likely to vote Left.

    Lifting doesn't strike me as a hobby that's linked all that strongly to a particular region or environment, at least compared to something like bicycling or hunting.

    , @CJ
    Short answer : yes, it's an American (and Canadian) thing. They think they're showing themselves to be better than the shotguns-and-pickups/muscle car driving proles. It's associated with university towns and neighborhoods, and (especially on the west coast and in Canada) with urban densification promoted by left-wing municipal politicians owned by real estate developers.
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  38. Twinkie says:
    @Pat Casey
    Are you trying to tell us you're not a twink, Twinkie?

    This Twinkie: https://goo.gl/images/j88fDx

    Not whatever deviancy that inhabits your mind.

    I’ve trained in Judo for forty years. Dave Pinsen’s claim is like some random guy looking at NBA players playing basketball and saying, “Meh. I played basketball in elementary school. I stopped because it’s all sloppy and terrible now. Are those even real dunks?”

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Twinkie,

    That's a bad analogy, because basketball is a popular spectator sport, and, at the elite level, players frequently make spectacular plays like flying dunks.

    Judo isn't a popular spectator sport, partly because, at the elite level, players don't frequently make spectacular moves. When elites are matched up against each other, they often resort to the most basic, conservative throws, the leg sweep stuff that white belts are taught.

    That doesn't mean judo is bad! It's just not fun to watch for normals. That's an objectively true statement, and not a criticism of your life choices.
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  39. AndrewR says:

    This subject doesn’t interest me much but I did see a study that suggested that muscular men are more likely to support policies in their own self-interest than less muscular men. So a muscular poor guy would be more likely to support redistributive policies than a scrawny poor guy. A muscular rich guy would be more likely to support low taxes and entitlement cuts.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    And now we all understand your relentless advocacy for socialism.
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  40. Doug says:

    A more effective solution might be just to legalize steroids.

    It may sound like a political nonstarter, but I think a lot of left wing people would sign on because of the transgender angle. A lot of law and order conservatives might vote for it, because of the popularity of steroids among marines and cops.

    Even the DEA originally asked not to have steroids scheduled, but Congress insisted because of the ongoing scandals in baseball. Now that the right doesn’t look up to sports heroes anymore, who cares. You could even sell it as a necessary response to the opiod epidemic. “The feds don’t have time to harass bodybuilders, when the cartel is getting middle schoolers hooked on smack.” Sells itself.

    Read More
    • Replies: @psmith

    DONALD TRUMP

    REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND THE WEST,,

    HELL IS SOON OVER FOR THE WEST

    FINALLY SOMEONE QUALIFIED!


    GH15 APPROVED
    LION OF JUDAH
    MAY 2016
     
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  41. Wency says:
    @al gore rhythms
    Lion of the Blogosphere has discussed this topic before. I was surprised to see the number of comments to the effect that long-distance runners and cyclists are left wing. Is this an American thing? As as teenager (in England) I was a member of a running club, and in my current job I chat with fellow cyclists in the locker room. Neither pastime had or has the slightest left-wing association; although I suppose cycling has become associated somewhat with environmentalism and middle class do-goodery. But generally cyclists are just people who want to save money on their daily commute, get fit, or enjoy being part of a club.

    I have to wonder how much of this is a rural/urban divide. Or more specifically, urban and dense suburban vs. sprawling suburban/exurban/rural.

    I have spent most of my life living in sprawling places where riding a bike as a means of transportation was impractical, for kids or adults. As a result, I never learned to ride a bike particularly well. Not coincidentally, those places all voted heavily Republican.

    In addition, big cities often have marathons and a marathon culture that develops around training for that marathon. Small towns do not have this.

    I haven’t spent much time in rural England, but my sense is that “rural” towns are often denser than many American big-city suburbs, such that bicycling to the store might actually be practical.

    Now, it might be that even within big cities, bicyclists and marathoners are more likely to lean leftward, but that could just imply that those people are more likely to have been born and raised in such a place, or to have more thoroughly embraced the culture after moving there from a Republican suburb or small town.

    I know a guy who moved to a major city from a small town but continued his duck hunting hobby. Guess which way he voted? Contrast that with people who moved to the big city and adopted big city hobbies — more likely to vote Left.

    Lifting doesn’t strike me as a hobby that’s linked all that strongly to a particular region or environment, at least compared to something like bicycling or hunting.

    Read More
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  42. psmith says:
    @Doug
    A more effective solution might be just to legalize steroids.

    It may sound like a political nonstarter, but I think a lot of left wing people would sign on because of the transgender angle. A lot of law and order conservatives might vote for it, because of the popularity of steroids among marines and cops.

    Even the DEA originally asked not to have steroids scheduled, but Congress insisted because of the ongoing scandals in baseball. Now that the right doesn't look up to sports heroes anymore, who cares. You could even sell it as a necessary response to the opiod epidemic. "The feds don't have time to harass bodybuilders, when the cartel is getting middle schoolers hooked on smack." Sells itself.

    DONALD TRUMP

    REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND THE WEST,,

    HELL IS SOON OVER FOR THE WEST

    FINALLY SOMEONE QUALIFIED!

    GH15 APPROVED
    LION OF JUDAH
    MAY 2016

    Read More
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  43. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Andrew Ryan
    This comment by Nassim Nicholas Taleb seems relevant:

    https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/814560759577513984?lang=en

    Speaking of Taleb,

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Nice! What got you into powerlifting, specifically?
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  44. Brutusale says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    The reader is probably right with respect to "jogging", but I don't think there are a lot of admitted joggers today; instead, there are runners. Long distance runners (and bicyclists, e.g., Howard Schultz) do seem to lean left.

    Military officers lean right, obviously, and they all have to run (middle distance), but they're different animals. No one would have confused the chain smoking, Polish emigre attack helicopter pilot who led my school's Army ROTC department with, say, John Legere.
    https://twitter.com/JohnLegere/status/514035952583720960

    According to a friend who was a college distance runner, if you can’t do a marathon in 3 1/2 hours or less, it doesn’t matter what you call yourself, you’re a jogger!

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Hahaha.
    , @Autochthon
    Hear, hear! I cannot tell you how annoying it is when I encounter fat people who tell me about how enthusiastic they are for marathons. When first I encountered such people I was baffled, but then I started realising these are the jackasses* who walk (plod?) the course in six hours or whatever.

    Mind you, if one is disabled or elderly or genuinely trying to recover from having slipped into terrible obesity or whatever, I have nothing but encouragement and respect; I really do. But 1) stay the Hell at the back when there are not staggered starting heats; be honest and get behind those of us who run; 2) don't talk and posture as if you are some kind of hardcore marathon machine because you have collected upteen finishers' medals by walking the requisite courses.

    Maybe we need need a "Do you even run, bro?" movement to complement the "do you even lift, bro?" gimmick, douchey though it is.

    *The most contemptible are the ones laden with enough Gatorade and pretzels to spend a week in the wilderness, when they ought to be drinking only water at the aid stations and praying to God they actually expend some of the energy they have stored as fat.
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  45. Olorin says:
    @The Alarmist
    Jogging is a feel-good activity that is largely destructive to much of one's body. Perfect liberal sport.

    I ran in college and played casual tennis for social reasons in addition to the then and ongoing hockey, backpacking, cycling, x-c ski, and whatever the guys were playing that didn’t involve head injuries. Usually baseball or casual hoops.

    The hardest thing on my body, ever, was the month or two I went jogging with this gal I liked. I hurt worse in the third week than I ever did going up or coming down from 14,000 feet and never got a good workout, even running with 10 lb hand weights as was recommended. But I always did better with sprint-patterned workouts anyway.

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  46. McFly says:
    @Andrew Ryan
    This comment by Nassim Nicholas Taleb seems relevant:

    https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/814560759577513984?lang=en

    I had a similar experience during election season last year.

    Political discussion broke out in the chain franchise gym location I work out at. About 15 people in the gym, mostly men but a couple women, more lifter-oriented group than runners, and every single one there was a Trump voter.

    A little surprising to see that in in a Midwestern county that Trump won 60-40.

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  47. syonredux says:

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    • Agree: Desiderius
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  48. One of my favorite deadlifting videos.

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  49. Mr. Hack says:

    What’a wrong with swimming? After an hour swim (32 laps), the endorphins are all revved up and I feel great. Since the water provides for resistance, you get decent muscle growth plus an incredible aerobic workout. I must be a middle of the roader? As a young man I used to jog a lot (got bored easily), did some weight training (also got bored) and ended up playing a lot of competitive tennis (lots of pain recuperating, shin splints, etc:). I’ve tried a lot, and recommend swimming! Evolutionists claim that we started in the oceans to begin with…

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    • Replies: @al gore rhythms
    I go through sporadic periods of swimming at my local pool, maybe about 5-10 times a year. I agree that there really is nothing to compare to the healthy glow you feel after a swim. The downsides are 1/if the pool is popular you are stuck in lanes which either means you are stuck behind a slow swimmer or have a faster swimmer behind you tapping at your heels. And 2/it is boring, boring, boring. At least with running or cycling you can see the world go by, or at least daydream about something else. Weightlifing at least has natural breaks. But the need to regulate your stroke and breathing when swimming means that you are solely look at tiles and water and have nothing to think about other than your technique.
    , @anon
    Swimming laps permanently tightens up the muscles, and should only be used while resting an injury.
    Heard that about 45 years ago, from a bloke who made a good living training racehorse and professional boxers in Australia. from the Twenties until his death in 1980,
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  50. @Dave Pinsen
    Speaking of Taleb,

    https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/937080606248325121

    Nice! What got you into powerlifting, specifically?

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Thanks. I haven't done any competitive powerlifting, but what got me into lifting a few years ago was a health scare. Woke up in an ICU and found out I'd been there in a coma for a week. Started going to the gym regularly after that, first the aerobic stuff plus some dumbbells, then gravitated to the barbells.
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  51. @Twinkie
    I personally like lifting up (and dropping) other people: https://youtu.be/oKz4VS-P8-w

    It's much more satisfying than just lifting inanimate objects. Also, it teaches you another conservative lesson: in life, there are winners and there are losers.

    #3.

    Ho Li Phuc.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie
    That’s a technique called yagura-nage in Japanese, sometimes called front uchi-mata or zantaraia uchi-mata. It’s a common technique in various Eurasian folk wrestling styles (e.g. Sumo, Georgian/Mongolian/Korean folk wrestling). It’s also my eldest son’s favorite technique. He’s thrown me many, many times with it, usually after feinting me with o-uchi-gari (imajor inside leg reap). He’s won several tournaments with it.

    You lift up one of your opponent’s thigh/leg with your mirror opposite side knee; once he is on one foot, you twist your body. The resulting centripetal force rotates him and makes him fall. It’s a particular favorite of Georgian and Mongolian Judoka.
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  52. prosa123 says: • Website

    CrossFit’s nature may be more appealing to liberal types. It’s not an individual thing where you do what you want, instead participants follow a prescribed regime and engage in friendly competition. I see that as more in tune with liberal/SJW mindsets.

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  53. @Arclight
    Maybe it's just the local demographic, but at my Crossfit gym (which also has an Olympic weightlifting program) I would say the politics definitely skew left, not right. So although I would instinctually buy into the idea that people who work out a lot - as opposed to runners and cyclists - are more likely to be conservative, I haven't personally seen it.

    Aren’t most Crossfit workouts named after KIA SpecOps guys?

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    • Replies: @Arclight
    The really grueling and long ones are - the shorter 'benchmark' ones are have women's names, like Cindy, Fran, Grace, etc.
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  54. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Twinkie

    I enjoyed studying judo when I was 10.
     
    And how long did you train?

    Haven’t kept up with it in recent years, because it usually looks so sloppy and terrible.
     
    What is "it" in this sentence? The whole Judo world? USA Judo? Your local club?

    Except for the #1 there, I’m surprised some of the rest of those were Ippons.
     
    Have you ever been to high level tournaments?

    And how long did you train?

    2 or 3 years, something like that. I still remember how to do some of the throws, and it probably helped my balance in the future.

    What is “it” in this sentence? The whole Judo world? USA Judo? Your local club?

    The whole Judo world.

    Have you ever been to high level tournaments?

    I have not, but I’ve seen Olympic judo on TV.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie
    You have very little experience in Judo - you certainly don’t know enough to criticize world’s best competitors as “terrible and sloppy.”
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  55. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Brutusale
    According to a friend who was a college distance runner, if you can't do a marathon in 3 1/2 hours or less, it doesn't matter what you call yourself, you're a jogger!

    Hahaha.

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  56. @Mr. Hack
    What'a wrong with swimming? After an hour swim (32 laps), the endorphins are all revved up and I feel great. Since the water provides for resistance, you get decent muscle growth plus an incredible aerobic workout. I must be a middle of the roader? As a young man I used to jog a lot (got bored easily), did some weight training (also got bored) and ended up playing a lot of competitive tennis (lots of pain recuperating, shin splints, etc:). I've tried a lot, and recommend swimming! Evolutionists claim that we started in the oceans to begin with...

    I go through sporadic periods of swimming at my local pool, maybe about 5-10 times a year. I agree that there really is nothing to compare to the healthy glow you feel after a swim. The downsides are 1/if the pool is popular you are stuck in lanes which either means you are stuck behind a slow swimmer or have a faster swimmer behind you tapping at your heels. And 2/it is boring, boring, boring. At least with running or cycling you can see the world go by, or at least daydream about something else. Weightlifing at least has natural breaks. But the need to regulate your stroke and breathing when swimming means that you are solely look at tiles and water and have nothing to think about other than your technique.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    I never swim for over one hour, and have found the time spent conducive to thinking and day dreaming. I'm not too serious about stroke and breathing and only try to get in my 32 laps. I have the good fortune of belonging to a Sports Club and very rarely find the three lanes clogged up. Only in the mornings, when they offer 'aerobic aqua club' to mostly elderly ladies do I find any traffic, which I learned to avoid, once I figured out their schedule. The LA fitness franchise cost me about $200 for a lifetime contract (perhaps more today?), and a $20 monthly fee -peanuts for what I get in return. Try it again, forget the perfect form and try some daydreaming! I just got back and am raring to make dinner and enjoy my evening...
    , @Mr. Hack
    I never swim for over one hour, and have found the time spent conducive to thinking and day dreaming. I'm not too serious about stroke and breathing and only try to get in my 32 laps. I have the good fortune of belonging to a Sports Club and very rarely find the three lanes clogged up. Only in the mornings, when they offer 'aerobic aqua club' to mostly elderly ladies do I find any traffic, which I learned to avoid, once I figured out their schedule. The LA fitness franchise cost me about $200 for a lifetime contract (perhaps more today?), and a $20 monthly fee -peanuts for what I get in return. Try it again, forget the perfect form and try some daydreaming! I just got back and am raring to make dinner and enjoy my evening...
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  57. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @The Last Real Calvinist
    Just (genuinely) curious: how many bikers (i.e. spandex and pedals bikers, not denim jacket and Harley bikers) are conservative? I've never met one.

    I have a friend who is, but he’s a mountain biker. I think he got into it originally has an off season sport because he’s a big skier.

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  58. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @L Woods
    Lifting is boring, time consuming and heavily dependent upon having the right genetics to see results. Distance running is all of that plus physically destructive (most effective endorphin generator however). The best compromise is high intensity intervals, but that's difficult to do in an urban environment lacking in open spaces. It's a problem.

    And yes, the military loves running. Even the Air Force. Probably explains the mounting craven conformity of its members as you move up the rank structure.

    I don’t find lifting boring. I’m always a little nervous when I walk into the gym, because I’ve set myself a challenge for that day for my main lift. Then on days when I do assistance work and push the sled, I superset all that stuff, so I’m too busy catching my breath to be bored.

    You can do high intensity interval training in a gym in urban areas: Tabata work on a rowing machine, for example, or sets of kettlebells, bag work, etc.

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  59. Sunbeam says:

    Kind of confused about something. You can’t really be fit without doing cardio. And I also think you need to do some kind of resistance training as well.

    So what is a politically acceptable way to get your cardio in if biking or running is a political identity card thing? Someone mentioned swimming, but you need a pool (and a fairly big one if you don’t want to have to reverse very frequently).

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    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    My faves:

    1. Run stairs

    2. Beat up a tractor tire with a sledgehammer

    3.. Hit the heavy bag
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  60. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Twinkie
    This Twinkie: https://goo.gl/images/j88fDx

    Not whatever deviancy that inhabits your mind.

    I’ve trained in Judo for forty years. Dave Pinsen’s claim is like some random guy looking at NBA players playing basketball and saying, “Meh. I played basketball in elementary school. I stopped because it’s all sloppy and terrible now. Are those even real dunks?”

    Twinkie,

    That’s a bad analogy, because basketball is a popular spectator sport, and, at the elite level, players frequently make spectacular plays like flying dunks.

    Judo isn’t a popular spectator sport, partly because, at the elite level, players don’t frequently make spectacular moves. When elites are matched up against each other, they often resort to the most basic, conservative throws, the leg sweep stuff that white belts are taught.

    That doesn’t mean judo is bad! It’s just not fun to watch for normals. That’s an objectively true statement, and not a criticism of your life choices.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    When elites are matched up against each other, they often resort to the most basic, conservative throws, the leg sweep stuff that white belts are taught.
     
    No. Just no. That’s wrong for all kinds of reasons.

    Just to start, white belts are taught koshi-waza first, not ashi-waza (mind you, my own philosophy is that ashi-waza should be taught first - it arguably takes the least amount of strength and relies the most on timing, and as such even children and old people can do them well).

    There are no “basic” throws as opposed to “advanced” throws in Judo. The mechanics of Judo are pretty simple. At elite levels, the differences come from kumi-kata, setups, and combinations. I was an elite Judoka (well, elite in the U.S., which doesn’t mean much internationally) when I was young. And you can’t take an elite Judoka down without beating him with grip fighting, tricky setup, and several-moves-ahead combo attacks.

    The number one winning technique in competition Judo is uchi-mata. And it’s a spectacular throw. https://youtu.be/wrisnu5n7Qo
    , @Twinkie

    Judo isn’t a popular spectator sport
     
    In the U.S.

    Judo IS a popular spectator sport in East Asia, Central Asia, Europe (esp. France, Germany, and Russia), and Brazil. Venues are sold out for major international competitions.
    , @ScarletNumber
    The Japanese word for "martial arts hall" is Budokan. Budokan was the host for judo in the 1964 Olympics, but is more famous as a concert venue, i.e. Cheap Trick's "I Want You to Want Me".
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  61. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Nice! What got you into powerlifting, specifically?

    Thanks. I haven’t done any competitive powerlifting, but what got me into lifting a few years ago was a health scare. Woke up in an ICU and found out I’d been there in a coma for a week. Started going to the gym regularly after that, first the aerobic stuff plus some dumbbells, then gravitated to the barbells.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    found out I’d been there in a coma for a week
     
    Damn. Must have been quite a shock. Good thing you’ve been able to turn it around.
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  62. CJ says:
    @al gore rhythms
    Lion of the Blogosphere has discussed this topic before. I was surprised to see the number of comments to the effect that long-distance runners and cyclists are left wing. Is this an American thing? As as teenager (in England) I was a member of a running club, and in my current job I chat with fellow cyclists in the locker room. Neither pastime had or has the slightest left-wing association; although I suppose cycling has become associated somewhat with environmentalism and middle class do-goodery. But generally cyclists are just people who want to save money on their daily commute, get fit, or enjoy being part of a club.

    Short answer : yes, it’s an American (and Canadian) thing. They think they’re showing themselves to be better than the shotguns-and-pickups/muscle car driving proles. It’s associated with university towns and neighborhoods, and (especially on the west coast and in Canada) with urban densification promoted by left-wing municipal politicians owned by real estate developers.

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  63. Mr. Hack says:
    @al gore rhythms
    I go through sporadic periods of swimming at my local pool, maybe about 5-10 times a year. I agree that there really is nothing to compare to the healthy glow you feel after a swim. The downsides are 1/if the pool is popular you are stuck in lanes which either means you are stuck behind a slow swimmer or have a faster swimmer behind you tapping at your heels. And 2/it is boring, boring, boring. At least with running or cycling you can see the world go by, or at least daydream about something else. Weightlifing at least has natural breaks. But the need to regulate your stroke and breathing when swimming means that you are solely look at tiles and water and have nothing to think about other than your technique.

    I never swim for over one hour, and have found the time spent conducive to thinking and day dreaming. I’m not too serious about stroke and breathing and only try to get in my 32 laps. I have the good fortune of belonging to a Sports Club and very rarely find the three lanes clogged up. Only in the mornings, when they offer ‘aerobic aqua club’ to mostly elderly ladies do I find any traffic, which I learned to avoid, once I figured out their schedule. The LA fitness franchise cost me about $200 for a lifetime contract (perhaps more today?), and a $20 monthly fee -peanuts for what I get in return. Try it again, forget the perfect form and try some daydreaming! I just got back and am raring to make dinner and enjoy my evening…

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  64. Mr. Hack says:
    @al gore rhythms
    I go through sporadic periods of swimming at my local pool, maybe about 5-10 times a year. I agree that there really is nothing to compare to the healthy glow you feel after a swim. The downsides are 1/if the pool is popular you are stuck in lanes which either means you are stuck behind a slow swimmer or have a faster swimmer behind you tapping at your heels. And 2/it is boring, boring, boring. At least with running or cycling you can see the world go by, or at least daydream about something else. Weightlifing at least has natural breaks. But the need to regulate your stroke and breathing when swimming means that you are solely look at tiles and water and have nothing to think about other than your technique.

    I never swim for over one hour, and have found the time spent conducive to thinking and day dreaming. I’m not too serious about stroke and breathing and only try to get in my 32 laps. I have the good fortune of belonging to a Sports Club and very rarely find the three lanes clogged up. Only in the mornings, when they offer ‘aerobic aqua club’ to mostly elderly ladies do I find any traffic, which I learned to avoid, once I figured out their schedule. The LA fitness franchise cost me about $200 for a lifetime contract (perhaps more today?), and a $20 monthly fee -peanuts for what I get in return. Try it again, forget the perfect form and try some daydreaming! I just got back and am raring to make dinner and enjoy my evening…

    Read More
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  65. @Dave Pinsen
    Thanks. I haven't done any competitive powerlifting, but what got me into lifting a few years ago was a health scare. Woke up in an ICU and found out I'd been there in a coma for a week. Started going to the gym regularly after that, first the aerobic stuff plus some dumbbells, then gravitated to the barbells.

    found out I’d been there in a coma for a week

    Damn. Must have been quite a shock. Good thing you’ve been able to turn it around.

    Read More
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  66. Chrisj says:

    I recommend a good hard karate workout. Nothing makes you feel better than practicing beating the hell out of other people. Combined with jumping rope it is an all around workout. And it validates my self-esteem!

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  67. @International Jew
    Spandex and pedals biker, haha. Yeah, I'm that kind of biker. And yeah, it does trend leftward. It helps to believe in the basic goodness of mankind, since you're counting on not being squashed by all those cars that overtake you.

    I ride for sport, though. I'm not a bike commuter. I suspect bike commuters are more leftwing yet. They're risking their lives to save the planet...that's my sense of it anyway. Plus, the most bikeable cities are college towns.


     I’ve never met one.
     Well, now you have!

    It’s good to meet you, Biker IJ.

    I agree with your insight into most bikers expecting the best out of human nature. The problem is, when they are inevitably disappointed, they react not with equanimity, knowing the crooked timber of which we’re all made, but instead with fury at the failure of utopia to be made manifest on the roads.

    I live in Hong Kong, where biking on the roads requires either profound faith in the way you describe it, or else utter fatalistic resignation. Some parts of the city do have extensive bike paths, though, including my own neighborhood. Recently we’ve also seen the rapid introduction of bike share companies, which provide pretty decent bikes (3-speed; solidly-built) for the extremely reasonable charge of about 75 US cents per hour. You rent them via an app on your phone. Mrs Calvinist and I have started taking some short bike rides as a result; it’s quite enjoyable.

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  68. Arclight says:
    @SteveRogers42
    Aren't most Crossfit workouts named after KIA SpecOps guys?

    The really grueling and long ones are – the shorter ‘benchmark’ ones are have women’s names, like Cindy, Fran, Grace, etc.

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    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    Schooled again!
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  69. @Arclight
    Maybe it's just the local demographic, but at my Crossfit gym (which also has an Olympic weightlifting program) I would say the politics definitely skew left, not right. So although I would instinctually buy into the idea that people who work out a lot - as opposed to runners and cyclists - are more likely to be conservative, I haven't personally seen it.

    I get this feeling that crossfit has an Olde Tyme-y vibe that lots of SJWs and hipsters eat right up, like funny beards and retro appliances.

    Recently, in addition to doing lots of walking and hiking, I’ve been using one of those phone apps that take you through a short (10-15 minutes) high intensity workout with crunches, push-ups, squats, burpees, and the like. I find it’s pretty effective, and if it’s not enjoyable (it’s not, for sure), at least it’s over quickly.

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    • Replies: @prosa123
    One interesting thing about CrossFit is that there are fairly even number of men and women. Which brings up a point: many men think the best way to meet women is to hang around nightclubs, most of which are sausage parties with ten men vying for the attention of each woman. They'd be better off joining CrossFit. Not only is there a much more reasonable gender ratio, but the typical $150 monthly fee is half that of a bottle of Grey Goose at one of those sausage party nightclubs. And it's a whole lot healthier.
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  70. @Logan
    Raises hand...

    Though I carefully avoid the spandex look, so possibly I don't count.

    Though I carefully avoid the spandex look, so possibly I don’t count.

    I don’t think you do. The outfit is an important part of what I’ve got in mind, for sure.

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  71. Arclight says:
    @reiner Tor
    There are a couple of points.

    First, Crossfit appeals to SWPLs, who are mostly hardcore liberals to begin with. As they start Crossfit, are they perhaps getting less left-wing than they had been before?

    Second, though Crossfit does contain a lot of lifting, it's basically strength-endurance, rather than strength. At least the Oly lifts are done for repetitions, as are the pullups (with kipping), the kettlebell snatches, etc. (Maybe they do some of them for one rep max, like the deadlift?)

    I think your second point is fairly legit, although the programming varies a lot from place to place. My home gym has a strength portion in every session before the workout of the day and the cycle is geared towards increasing your 1 RM on the major lifts, but some gyms focus more on the cardio portion or don’t really go that heavy on the lifts.

    As for who it appeals to I am not sure I agree with you – a pretty high percentage of the people at my gym were competitive HS or college athletes looking for a way to continue to do something challenging, and that doesn’t seem to fit my mental image of the typical SWPL. Those people tend to be runners, cyclists, or maybe Orange Theory/Soul Cycle type places.

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  72. prosa123 says: • Website
    @The Last Real Calvinist
    I get this feeling that crossfit has an Olde Tyme-y vibe that lots of SJWs and hipsters eat right up, like funny beards and retro appliances.

    Recently, in addition to doing lots of walking and hiking, I've been using one of those phone apps that take you through a short (10-15 minutes) high intensity workout with crunches, push-ups, squats, burpees, and the like. I find it's pretty effective, and if it's not enjoyable (it's not, for sure), at least it's over quickly.

    One interesting thing about CrossFit is that there are fairly even number of men and women. Which brings up a point: many men think the best way to meet women is to hang around nightclubs, most of which are sausage parties with ten men vying for the attention of each woman. They’d be better off joining CrossFit. Not only is there a much more reasonable gender ratio, but the typical $150 monthly fee is half that of a bottle of Grey Goose at one of those sausage party nightclubs. And it’s a whole lot healthier.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L Woods
    Yeah, but the quality of the competition is a lot better (worse for you) at a crossfit class. Nightclubs are truly awful though. An utterly terrible return on investment. Tinder/bumble beat the hell out of them.
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  73. Bikehogs says:
    @CK
    Entitled little twits, packs of them clog the two lane roads every weekend. Of course they are progressives.

    It never quite occurred to me than my annoyance with spandex bikers had any political tinge to it but now I can see it. You want to just yell at the exhibitionist swpl to get out of the road.

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  74. @GamecockJerry
    As a lifelong weight lifter, vast majority of hardcore weightlifters I have trained with are to the right. We do look at Cross fitters as wimps. They use the fake looking plates (at least the ones at my LifeTime are large light plates) and seems like a lot of effort for little gain. they seem to get injured a lot also. They would not last a week training with us.

    I’m really digging Crossfit. The people i see there have incredible physiques; I wouldn’t criticize anything about it. So what if they can’t lift as much? Also, it’s got quite a few police and firemen that participate.

    Those that get injuries seem to get them doing other activities, like the weekend marathon or some such.

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    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Google "rhabdomyolysis".

    I've got no issue with Crossfitters; whatever gets you up and going is fine with me. But stay in your own insular little world with your wacky hijinks and out of regular gyms. I don't think some of them have any idea how irritating they are when they stand next to you with their 5-lb. dumbbells doing their drum majorette routines while you're trying to concentrate on lifting real weight.
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  75. L Woods says:
    @prosa123
    One interesting thing about CrossFit is that there are fairly even number of men and women. Which brings up a point: many men think the best way to meet women is to hang around nightclubs, most of which are sausage parties with ten men vying for the attention of each woman. They'd be better off joining CrossFit. Not only is there a much more reasonable gender ratio, but the typical $150 monthly fee is half that of a bottle of Grey Goose at one of those sausage party nightclubs. And it's a whole lot healthier.

    Yeah, but the quality of the competition is a lot better (worse for you) at a crossfit class. Nightclubs are truly awful though. An utterly terrible return on investment. Tinder/bumble beat the hell out of them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @prosa123
    "Yeah, but the quality of the competition is a lot better (worse for you) at a crossfit class. Nightclubs are truly awful though. An utterly terrible return on investment. Tinder/bumble beat the hell out of them."

    Quite the opposite. A nightclub will be packed with high testosterone Alpha males. CrossFit attracts more ordinary men who are interested in self improvement.
    , @Marty T
    Crossfit could be a good idea, but I wouldn't want a gf or wife to go without me. Have heard multiple stories of women cheating with crossfit instructors.

    Online dating is pretty terrible unless you're a guy in the top 10 percent lookswise.
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  76. SOL says:

    Doesn’t jogging lower T-levels? Or is it long-distance running that does that?

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  77. Bill Jones says: • Website

    It is not by accident that if you run a mile on a track , they make you turn to the left, what? 16 times?

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    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    You need to reverse it every lap so you don't get a shorter left leg from running counter-clockwise the whole time...
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  78. Twinkie says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    Twinkie,

    That's a bad analogy, because basketball is a popular spectator sport, and, at the elite level, players frequently make spectacular plays like flying dunks.

    Judo isn't a popular spectator sport, partly because, at the elite level, players don't frequently make spectacular moves. When elites are matched up against each other, they often resort to the most basic, conservative throws, the leg sweep stuff that white belts are taught.

    That doesn't mean judo is bad! It's just not fun to watch for normals. That's an objectively true statement, and not a criticism of your life choices.

    When elites are matched up against each other, they often resort to the most basic, conservative throws, the leg sweep stuff that white belts are taught.

    No. Just no. That’s wrong for all kinds of reasons.

    Just to start, white belts are taught koshi-waza first, not ashi-waza (mind you, my own philosophy is that ashi-waza should be taught first – it arguably takes the least amount of strength and relies the most on timing, and as such even children and old people can do them well).

    There are no “basic” throws as opposed to “advanced” throws in Judo. The mechanics of Judo are pretty simple. At elite levels, the differences come from kumi-kata, setups, and combinations. I was an elite Judoka (well, elite in the U.S., which doesn’t mean much internationally) when I was young. And you can’t take an elite Judoka down without beating him with grip fighting, tricky setup, and several-moves-ahead combo attacks.

    The number one winning technique in competition Judo is uchi-mata. And it’s a spectacular throw. https://youtu.be/wrisnu5n7Qo

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  79. Twinkie says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    And how long did you train?
     
    2 or 3 years, something like that. I still remember how to do some of the throws, and it probably helped my balance in the future.

    What is “it” in this sentence? The whole Judo world? USA Judo? Your local club?
     
    The whole Judo world.

    Have you ever been to high level tournaments?
     
    I have not, but I've seen Olympic judo on TV.

    You have very little experience in Judo – you certainly don’t know enough to criticize world’s best competitors as “terrible and sloppy.”

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  80. Twinkie says:
    @SteveRogers42
    #3.

    Ho Li Phuc.

    That’s a technique called yagura-nage in Japanese, sometimes called front uchi-mata or zantaraia uchi-mata. It’s a common technique in various Eurasian folk wrestling styles (e.g. Sumo, Georgian/Mongolian/Korean folk wrestling). It’s also my eldest son’s favorite technique. He’s thrown me many, many times with it, usually after feinting me with o-uchi-gari (imajor inside leg reap). He’s won several tournaments with it.

    You lift up one of your opponent’s thigh/leg with your mirror opposite side knee; once he is on one foot, you twist your body. The resulting centripetal force rotates him and makes him fall. It’s a particular favorite of Georgian and Mongolian Judoka.

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    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    Thank you. That is interesting information. I had no idea there was a name for that technique. I would have thought it was a standing "scramble" and improvisation.

    That sort of cross-pollination from different styles was not even on the radar during my competitive era many moons ago. Creativity was not a "thing" back in the Mesozoic era...our senseis sought only to constantly refine our execution of the fundamental techniques, and any questions were replied to with "work harder!" And don't even get me started on ne-waza: When BJJ made it's appearance on the US scene, it compared to our groundfighting like an M240 compares to a slingshot.

    On the bright side, the old-school methods developed instincts that have always served me very well off the mat. Osoto-gari, koshi-garuma, and kesa-gatame have never let me down when I needed them.
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  81. Twinkie says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    Twinkie,

    That's a bad analogy, because basketball is a popular spectator sport, and, at the elite level, players frequently make spectacular plays like flying dunks.

    Judo isn't a popular spectator sport, partly because, at the elite level, players don't frequently make spectacular moves. When elites are matched up against each other, they often resort to the most basic, conservative throws, the leg sweep stuff that white belts are taught.

    That doesn't mean judo is bad! It's just not fun to watch for normals. That's an objectively true statement, and not a criticism of your life choices.

    Judo isn’t a popular spectator sport

    In the U.S.

    Judo IS a popular spectator sport in East Asia, Central Asia, Europe (esp. France, Germany, and Russia), and Brazil. Venues are sold out for major international competitions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    It looks like it's making inroads in Central Africa, as well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQhU3EHJV4Q

    What is your take on this famous clip? On the one hand, it's hard to believe there is any judo instruction available in a dirt-road village in Location Unknown. One the other hand, Rwanda Rousey sets up the drop-knee-seoinage with a little kuzushi, then executes the throw about as well as it can be done, then tries to implement some recovery techniques after Jerome is kayoed.

    Could this be a display of some kind of indigenous folk wrestling, or is she just an improvisational physical genius, or...?
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  82. @Dave Pinsen
    I enjoyed studying judo when I was 10. Haven't kept up with it in recent years, because it usually looks so sloppy and terrible. Except for the #1 there, I'm surprised some of the rest of those were Ippons.

    I think it might look sloppy to you because it’s not a display of the classical program of throws taught at the Junior level. The sport has become much more athletic over the years, with improvisation and power trumping technical expertise. For instance, it would be difficult to put a name from the classical curriculum to ippon #3 (I propose calling it “fvck ‘em up-jitsu”), but all the throws in this clip meet the criteria for a full ippon: putting the opponent directly on his back with a crisply-executed legal technique.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Okay, that's a more reasonable and less defensive response than Twinkie's.

    My sense when I practiced Judo was that full ippons were rare and only given for perfect throws. Maybe that's changed since.
    , @Twinkie

    The sport has become much more athletic over the years, with improvisation and power trumping technical expertise.
     
    This is not quite accurate. Yes, Judoka of today are FAR more physically fit than years past, but their technical expertise is in no way lower than from those years. See my other response about the advent of "Russian" Judo since the 60's.

    A more accurate description would be that Judo has become much more of a competitive combative sport than a martial art in that "formal" self-defense techniques are essentially not taught at most clubs.* Also, the range of techniques has narrowed, especially since 2011 when leg attacks were completely banned.

    *Obviously you know that this does not mean Judo is useless for self-defense. A proficient Judoka will wreck most people badly in fights in all sorts of ways.
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  83. Ivy says:
    @The Alarmist
    Try being a conservative or dissident-right surfer.

    My daughter and her boyfriend both surf and are on the Right. They stick to discussions about waves, breaks and technique when on the water, and then on where to eat afterwards. Many find surfing to be a great exercise physically, mentally and spiritually.

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    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    Yeah, but you kind of made my point: We are expected to stick to "safe" topics, but we get a non-stop stream of the left's agenda items and no opprtunity to safely discuss any valid points of contention.

    Locals only, and even then, only if you have the right mindset or keep your mouth shut.
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  84. @NJ Transit Commuter
    Weight lifting is easy to link to "toxic masculinity," which is a probable reason that it might not be as popular among Democrats.

    I would respectfully disagree with the reader's comment above. Both weightlifting, which I started in high school, and running, which I started about 10 years ago, had a profound, positive chance on my physical and mental wellbeing. I do however agree with the commenter that encouraging more exercise might make people more conservative. I think an argument can be made that there are many "conservative" lessons to be learned from running.

    - There are no quick fixes in life. Improvement takes time and effort.
    - Having said this, effort is rewarded, with a high correlation between the effort spend and reward reaped.
    - Perhaps most importantly, life isn't fair. There are many people who put much less effort into running than I do, but are much faster than I am. That's not a reason for giving up, though. Complaining rarely fixes anything, effort almost always does.

    As in politics, the best course of action is to avoid the extremes and do both strength training and aerobic training.

    Finally someone else that likes both weightlifting and running!

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  85. @Twinkie
    That’s a technique called yagura-nage in Japanese, sometimes called front uchi-mata or zantaraia uchi-mata. It’s a common technique in various Eurasian folk wrestling styles (e.g. Sumo, Georgian/Mongolian/Korean folk wrestling). It’s also my eldest son’s favorite technique. He’s thrown me many, many times with it, usually after feinting me with o-uchi-gari (imajor inside leg reap). He’s won several tournaments with it.

    You lift up one of your opponent’s thigh/leg with your mirror opposite side knee; once he is on one foot, you twist your body. The resulting centripetal force rotates him and makes him fall. It’s a particular favorite of Georgian and Mongolian Judoka.

    Thank you. That is interesting information. I had no idea there was a name for that technique. I would have thought it was a standing “scramble” and improvisation.

    That sort of cross-pollination from different styles was not even on the radar during my competitive era many moons ago. Creativity was not a “thing” back in the Mesozoic era…our senseis sought only to constantly refine our execution of the fundamental techniques, and any questions were replied to with “work harder!” And don’t even get me started on ne-waza: When BJJ made it’s appearance on the US scene, it compared to our groundfighting like an M240 compares to a slingshot.

    On the bright side, the old-school methods developed instincts that have always served me very well off the mat. Osoto-gari, koshi-garuma, and kesa-gatame have never let me down when I needed them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    That sort of cross-pollination from different styles was not even on the radar during my competitive era many moons ago.
     
    Yagura-nage has been around in Judo since the 60's at the latest. Once the Soviet Judoka started to utilize folk-wrestling techniques, a floodgate of what you call "cross-pollination" occurred. In truth, these techniques such as Yagura-Nage (and another one of my favorite, the Kharbareli) have been around in old Jujutsu/Sumo and in the early Judo curriculum. But the faction that came to dominate Kodokan after Kano's death tended to disparage them as not elegant and tended to favor those techniques that are now considered very "classically Japanese techniques."

    A good example would be Kyuzo Mifune (https://youtu.be/5iXImGCb1G8) and his favorite technique of Sumi-Otoshi. It's a beautiful, almost sublime technique and Mifune was amazing at it, but it's a somewhat "impractical" technique that is very difficult to pull off without supreme sensitivity and timing, at least against a trained opponent; hence it is virtually never used in competition.

    And don’t even get me started on ne-waza: When BJJ made it’s appearance on the US scene, it compared to our groundfighting like an M240 compares to a slingshot.
     
    I've practiced Brazilian Jujutsu for about 20 years. Nothing in it is new. Look up Kosen Judo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosen_judo

    Do you know how the triangle choke came to BJJ? One of the Gracies saw it in an old Judo book!
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  86. @prosa123
    "Weight lifting is easy to link to toxic masculinity"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=490jsAnGxe0

    I think the one on the left is a dude. The one on the right might be a woman, the face, breasts, and hips, point that direction. But how can we know without more information?

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  87. @The Alarmist
    Try being a conservative or dissident-right surfer.

    Jocko surfs.

    Probably doesn’t catch a lot of grief.

    Read More
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  88. @AndrewR
    This subject doesn't interest me much but I did see a study that suggested that muscular men are more likely to support policies in their own self-interest than less muscular men. So a muscular poor guy would be more likely to support redistributive policies than a scrawny poor guy. A muscular rich guy would be more likely to support low taxes and entitlement cuts.

    And now we all understand your relentless advocacy for socialism.

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  89. @Twinkie

    Judo isn’t a popular spectator sport
     
    In the U.S.

    Judo IS a popular spectator sport in East Asia, Central Asia, Europe (esp. France, Germany, and Russia), and Brazil. Venues are sold out for major international competitions.

    It looks like it’s making inroads in Central Africa, as well:

    What is your take on this famous clip? On the one hand, it’s hard to believe there is any judo instruction available in a dirt-road village in Location Unknown. One the other hand, Rwanda Rousey sets up the drop-knee-seoinage with a little kuzushi, then executes the throw about as well as it can be done, then tries to implement some recovery techniques after Jerome is kayoed.

    Could this be a display of some kind of indigenous folk wrestling, or is she just an improvisational physical genius, or…?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Could this be a display of some kind of indigenous folk wrestling, or is she just an improvisational physical genius, or…?
     
    She's had Judo training. And more than a little.

    Not only does she do proper Kuzushi, that throw is a relatively recent version of Morote-Seoi-Otoshi. It's a variant that is frequently called "Korean Seoi" because Koreans excel at it and tend to use it a lot in competitions. Note that she starts with a traditional right hand on lapel grip. In a traditional Seoi she would then throw her opponent to her left (the Hikite side), but she actually spins to the Tsurite side and does a "reverse" Seoi.

    Judo is actually getting more popular in sub-Saharan Africa. I think Cameroon has a decent team. It's also quite popular in North Africa (Tunisia, Algeria, and Morocco), mostly because of the French influence (France is a Judo powerhouse and probably has the second or third most gold medals in Judo at the Olympics after Japan and possibly South Korea).
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  90. @Bill Jones
    It is not by accident that if you run a mile on a track , they make you turn to the left, what? 16 times?

    You need to reverse it every lap so you don’t get a shorter left leg from running counter-clockwise the whole time…

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  91. @Arclight
    The really grueling and long ones are - the shorter 'benchmark' ones are have women's names, like Cindy, Fran, Grace, etc.

    Schooled again!

    Read More
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  92. Rod1963 says:
    @L Woods
    Lifting is boring, time consuming and heavily dependent upon having the right genetics to see results. Distance running is all of that plus physically destructive (most effective endorphin generator however). The best compromise is high intensity intervals, but that's difficult to do in an urban environment lacking in open spaces. It's a problem.

    And yes, the military loves running. Even the Air Force. Probably explains the mounting craven conformity of its members as you move up the rank structure.

    Actually lifting can benefit everyone. Any guy can get decent results and it doesn’t take that long with the proper diet and routine that takes a 1/2 hour 3x a week. As with anything else, it’s what you put into it that counts.

    And it’s not boring if you like challenges.

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  93. @Sunbeam
    Kind of confused about something. You can't really be fit without doing cardio. And I also think you need to do some kind of resistance training as well.

    So what is a politically acceptable way to get your cardio in if biking or running is a political identity card thing? Someone mentioned swimming, but you need a pool (and a fairly big one if you don't want to have to reverse very frequently).

    My faves:

    1. Run stairs

    2. Beat up a tractor tire with a sledgehammer

    3.. Hit the heavy bag

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ivy
    An axe and a woodpile can lead to a cord of wood and a good workout. Similar to the sledge/tire exercise, that can help dissipate pent-up concerns.
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  94. Ivy says:
    @SteveRogers42
    My faves:

    1. Run stairs

    2. Beat up a tractor tire with a sledgehammer

    3.. Hit the heavy bag

    An axe and a woodpile can lead to a cord of wood and a good workout. Similar to the sledge/tire exercise, that can help dissipate pent-up concerns.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    I know whatcha mean. Whenever I do 2 or 3, I feel that I am actually saving someone else's life.
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  95. prosa123 says: • Website
    @L Woods
    Yeah, but the quality of the competition is a lot better (worse for you) at a crossfit class. Nightclubs are truly awful though. An utterly terrible return on investment. Tinder/bumble beat the hell out of them.

    “Yeah, but the quality of the competition is a lot better (worse for you) at a crossfit class. Nightclubs are truly awful though. An utterly terrible return on investment. Tinder/bumble beat the hell out of them.”

    Quite the opposite. A nightclub will be packed with high testosterone Alpha males. CrossFit attracts more ordinary men who are interested in self improvement.

    Read More
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  96. @Ivy
    An axe and a woodpile can lead to a cord of wood and a good workout. Similar to the sledge/tire exercise, that can help dissipate pent-up concerns.

    I know whatcha mean. Whenever I do 2 or 3, I feel that I am actually saving someone else’s life.

    Read More
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  97. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @SteveRogers42
    I think it might look sloppy to you because it's not a display of the classical program of throws taught at the Junior level. The sport has become much more athletic over the years, with improvisation and power trumping technical expertise. For instance, it would be difficult to put a name from the classical curriculum to ippon #3 (I propose calling it "fvck 'em up-jitsu"), but all the throws in this clip meet the criteria for a full ippon: putting the opponent directly on his back with a crisply-executed legal technique.

    Okay, that’s a more reasonable and less defensive response than Twinkie’s.

    My sense when I practiced Judo was that full ippons were rare and only given for perfect throws. Maybe that’s changed since.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    a more reasonable and less defensive response than Twinkie’s.
     
    Man, you practiced Judo for 2-3 years as a kid and then you think you know enough to critique some of the world's best (or the whole Judo world) as "now... terrible and sloppy" at techniques.

    I wasn't "defensive" - I was (and am) very annoyed at your grossly overstated confidence arising out of utter ignorance. You don't even know what you don't know about Judo ("unknown unknowns" to borrow from the old SecDef Rumsfeld). You are completely out of depth, but think you know what you are talking about!

    My sense when I practiced Judo was that full ippons were rare and only given for perfect throws. Maybe that’s changed since.
     
    That last sentence is more jack-assery.

    Ippon is simply (one) full point, terminating the match ("total victory") given out for:

    1. A throw that lands the opponent cleanly on his back with force.*
    2. Submission from choke/strangulation or arm-lock.
    3. Controlled hold-down of opponent on his back for 20 seconds (this time has varied over the years).

    *If the opponent is thrown sideways or rolls over to the back with minimal force, usually Waza-ari is given.

    All the throws I linked to earlier qualified for criterion 1, so were awarded Ippon. And those throws would have been Ippon in any era.
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  98. Twinkie says:
    @SteveRogers42
    I think it might look sloppy to you because it's not a display of the classical program of throws taught at the Junior level. The sport has become much more athletic over the years, with improvisation and power trumping technical expertise. For instance, it would be difficult to put a name from the classical curriculum to ippon #3 (I propose calling it "fvck 'em up-jitsu"), but all the throws in this clip meet the criteria for a full ippon: putting the opponent directly on his back with a crisply-executed legal technique.

    The sport has become much more athletic over the years, with improvisation and power trumping technical expertise.

    This is not quite accurate. Yes, Judoka of today are FAR more physically fit than years past, but their technical expertise is in no way lower than from those years. See my other response about the advent of “Russian” Judo since the 60′s.

    A more accurate description would be that Judo has become much more of a competitive combative sport than a martial art in that “formal” self-defense techniques are essentially not taught at most clubs.* Also, the range of techniques has narrowed, especially since 2011 when leg attacks were completely banned.

    *Obviously you know that this does not mean Judo is useless for self-defense. A proficient Judoka will wreck most people badly in fights in all sorts of ways.

    Read More
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  99. Twinkie says:
    @SteveRogers42
    Thank you. That is interesting information. I had no idea there was a name for that technique. I would have thought it was a standing "scramble" and improvisation.

    That sort of cross-pollination from different styles was not even on the radar during my competitive era many moons ago. Creativity was not a "thing" back in the Mesozoic era...our senseis sought only to constantly refine our execution of the fundamental techniques, and any questions were replied to with "work harder!" And don't even get me started on ne-waza: When BJJ made it's appearance on the US scene, it compared to our groundfighting like an M240 compares to a slingshot.

    On the bright side, the old-school methods developed instincts that have always served me very well off the mat. Osoto-gari, koshi-garuma, and kesa-gatame have never let me down when I needed them.

    That sort of cross-pollination from different styles was not even on the radar during my competitive era many moons ago.

    Yagura-nage has been around in Judo since the 60′s at the latest. Once the Soviet Judoka started to utilize folk-wrestling techniques, a floodgate of what you call “cross-pollination” occurred. In truth, these techniques such as Yagura-Nage (and another one of my favorite, the Kharbareli) have been around in old Jujutsu/Sumo and in the early Judo curriculum. But the faction that came to dominate Kodokan after Kano’s death tended to disparage them as not elegant and tended to favor those techniques that are now considered very “classically Japanese techniques.”

    A good example would be Kyuzo Mifune (https://youtu.be/5iXImGCb1G8) and his favorite technique of Sumi-Otoshi. It’s a beautiful, almost sublime technique and Mifune was amazing at it, but it’s a somewhat “impractical” technique that is very difficult to pull off without supreme sensitivity and timing, at least against a trained opponent; hence it is virtually never used in competition.

    And don’t even get me started on ne-waza: When BJJ made it’s appearance on the US scene, it compared to our groundfighting like an M240 compares to a slingshot.

    I’ve practiced Brazilian Jujutsu for about 20 years. Nothing in it is new. Look up Kosen Judo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosen_judo

    Do you know how the triangle choke came to BJJ? One of the Gracies saw it in an old Judo book!

    Read More
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  100. Twinkie says:
    @SteveRogers42
    It looks like it's making inroads in Central Africa, as well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQhU3EHJV4Q

    What is your take on this famous clip? On the one hand, it's hard to believe there is any judo instruction available in a dirt-road village in Location Unknown. One the other hand, Rwanda Rousey sets up the drop-knee-seoinage with a little kuzushi, then executes the throw about as well as it can be done, then tries to implement some recovery techniques after Jerome is kayoed.

    Could this be a display of some kind of indigenous folk wrestling, or is she just an improvisational physical genius, or...?

    Could this be a display of some kind of indigenous folk wrestling, or is she just an improvisational physical genius, or…?

    She’s had Judo training. And more than a little.

    Not only does she do proper Kuzushi, that throw is a relatively recent version of Morote-Seoi-Otoshi. It’s a variant that is frequently called “Korean Seoi” because Koreans excel at it and tend to use it a lot in competitions. Note that she starts with a traditional right hand on lapel grip. In a traditional Seoi she would then throw her opponent to her left (the Hikite side), but she actually spins to the Tsurite side and does a “reverse” Seoi.

    Judo is actually getting more popular in sub-Saharan Africa. I think Cameroon has a decent team. It’s also quite popular in North Africa (Tunisia, Algeria, and Morocco), mostly because of the French influence (France is a Judo powerhouse and probably has the second or third most gold medals in Judo at the Olympics after Japan and possibly South Korea).

    Read More
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  101. Twinkie says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    Okay, that's a more reasonable and less defensive response than Twinkie's.

    My sense when I practiced Judo was that full ippons were rare and only given for perfect throws. Maybe that's changed since.

    a more reasonable and less defensive response than Twinkie’s.

    Man, you practiced Judo for 2-3 years as a kid and then you think you know enough to critique some of the world’s best (or the whole Judo world) as “now… terrible and sloppy” at techniques.

    I wasn’t “defensive” – I was (and am) very annoyed at your grossly overstated confidence arising out of utter ignorance. You don’t even know what you don’t know about Judo (“unknown unknowns” to borrow from the old SecDef Rumsfeld). You are completely out of depth, but think you know what you are talking about!

    My sense when I practiced Judo was that full ippons were rare and only given for perfect throws. Maybe that’s changed since.

    That last sentence is more jack-assery.

    Ippon is simply (one) full point, terminating the match (“total victory”) given out for:

    1. A throw that lands the opponent cleanly on his back with force.*
    2. Submission from choke/strangulation or arm-lock.
    3. Controlled hold-down of opponent on his back for 20 seconds (this time has varied over the years).

    *If the opponent is thrown sideways or rolls over to the back with minimal force, usually Waza-ari is given.

    All the throws I linked to earlier qualified for criterion 1, so were awarded Ippon. And those throws would have been Ippon in any era.

    Read More
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  102. @Dave Pinsen
    Twinkie,

    That's a bad analogy, because basketball is a popular spectator sport, and, at the elite level, players frequently make spectacular plays like flying dunks.

    Judo isn't a popular spectator sport, partly because, at the elite level, players don't frequently make spectacular moves. When elites are matched up against each other, they often resort to the most basic, conservative throws, the leg sweep stuff that white belts are taught.

    That doesn't mean judo is bad! It's just not fun to watch for normals. That's an objectively true statement, and not a criticism of your life choices.

    The Japanese word for “martial arts hall” is Budokan. Budokan was the host for judo in the 1964 Olympics, but is more famous as a concert venue, i.e. Cheap Trick’s “I Want You to Want Me”.

    Read More
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  103. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Hack
    What'a wrong with swimming? After an hour swim (32 laps), the endorphins are all revved up and I feel great. Since the water provides for resistance, you get decent muscle growth plus an incredible aerobic workout. I must be a middle of the roader? As a young man I used to jog a lot (got bored easily), did some weight training (also got bored) and ended up playing a lot of competitive tennis (lots of pain recuperating, shin splints, etc:). I've tried a lot, and recommend swimming! Evolutionists claim that we started in the oceans to begin with...

    Swimming laps permanently tightens up the muscles, and should only be used while resting an injury.
    Heard that about 45 years ago, from a bloke who made a good living training racehorse and professional boxers in Australia. from the Twenties until his death in 1980,

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  104. @Ivy
    My daughter and her boyfriend both surf and are on the Right. They stick to discussions about waves, breaks and technique when on the water, and then on where to eat afterwards. Many find surfing to be a great exercise physically, mentally and spiritually.

    Yeah, but you kind of made my point: We are expected to stick to “safe” topics, but we get a non-stop stream of the left’s agenda items and no opprtunity to safely discuss any valid points of contention.

    Locals only, and even then, only if you have the right mindset or keep your mouth shut.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ivy
    Doing my part to help another generation notice. Once they understand the process they will be better able to deal with it effectively, then they can hang ten.
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  105. dsgntd_plyr says: • Website

    crossfit is for swpls, who are liberal. but crossfit is also very white. which is amusing considering how swpls are always going on-and-on about diversity.

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  106. @WHAT
    Which is interesting, considering Rippetoe himself is a centrist libertarian.

    As is Reynolds.

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  107. @Brutusale
    According to a friend who was a college distance runner, if you can't do a marathon in 3 1/2 hours or less, it doesn't matter what you call yourself, you're a jogger!

    Hear, hear! I cannot tell you how annoying it is when I encounter fat people who tell me about how enthusiastic they are for marathons. When first I encountered such people I was baffled, but then I started realising these are the jackasses* who walk (plod?) the course in six hours or whatever.

    Mind you, if one is disabled or elderly or genuinely trying to recover from having slipped into terrible obesity or whatever, I have nothing but encouragement and respect; I really do. But 1) stay the Hell at the back when there are not staggered starting heats; be honest and get behind those of us who run; 2) don’t talk and posture as if you are some kind of hardcore marathon machine because you have collected upteen finishers’ medals by walking the requisite courses.

    Maybe we need need a “Do you even run, bro?” movement to complement the “do you even lift, bro?” gimmick, douchey though it is.

    *The most contemptible are the ones laden with enough Gatorade and pretzels to spend a week in the wilderness, when they ought to be drinking only water at the aid stations and praying to God they actually expend some of the energy they have stored as fat.

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  108. Marty T says:
    @L Woods
    Yeah, but the quality of the competition is a lot better (worse for you) at a crossfit class. Nightclubs are truly awful though. An utterly terrible return on investment. Tinder/bumble beat the hell out of them.

    Crossfit could be a good idea, but I wouldn’t want a gf or wife to go without me. Have heard multiple stories of women cheating with crossfit instructors.

    Online dating is pretty terrible unless you’re a guy in the top 10 percent lookswise.

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  109. Brutusale says:
    @The Last Real Calvinist
    Just (genuinely) curious: how many bikers (i.e. spandex and pedals bikers, not denim jacket and Harley bikers) are conservative? I've never met one.

    There’s my girlfriend, former college swimmer and avid cyclist. She made some heads explode just last night at a “holiday” party with a bunch of lefties by bringing a couple bottles of Trump wine (the red is awful, the white is mediocre).

    And yes, Spandex is OK…on the right person. Which she is. Which I am most definitely not, but I bought bike shorts that are sewn into a pair of regular gym shorts.

    Photos are the start and finish of a charity bike ride from Boston to Provincetown 2 weeks after her 55th birthday. She hits the weights pretty hard, too, but she’s also been lifting since high school and has never stopped. We met at the gym.

    But she’s too manly looking, right, Troofie?

    Read More
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber

    But she’s too manly looking, right, Troofie?
     
    She is to me.
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  110. Brutusale says:
    @stillCARealist
    I'm really digging Crossfit. The people i see there have incredible physiques; I wouldn't criticize anything about it. So what if they can't lift as much? Also, it's got quite a few police and firemen that participate.

    Those that get injuries seem to get them doing other activities, like the weekend marathon or some such.

    Google “rhabdomyolysis”.

    I’ve got no issue with Crossfitters; whatever gets you up and going is fine with me. But stay in your own insular little world with your wacky hijinks and out of regular gyms. I don’t think some of them have any idea how irritating they are when they stand next to you with their 5-lb. dumbbells doing their drum majorette routines while you’re trying to concentrate on lifting real weight.

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  111. @Brutusale
    There's my girlfriend, former college swimmer and avid cyclist. She made some heads explode just last night at a "holiday" party with a bunch of lefties by bringing a couple bottles of Trump wine (the red is awful, the white is mediocre).

    And yes, Spandex is OK...on the right person. Which she is. Which I am most definitely not, but I bought bike shorts that are sewn into a pair of regular gym shorts.

    https://scontent.fbos1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12243469_10205184342074724_6404667784045009889_n.jpg?oh=4973ce34b4476e6c8ee429c2f89bf61b&oe=5AD38A91


    https://scontent.fbos1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25445898_10210705428858443_5867171073679599138_n.jpg?oh=584f7f3568e74d2d842f8fc57ca90ea5&oe=5A8B5A93

    Photos are the start and finish of a charity bike ride from Boston to Provincetown 2 weeks after her 55th birthday. She hits the weights pretty hard, too, but she's also been lifting since high school and has never stopped. We met at the gym.

    But she's too manly looking, right, Troofie?

    But she’s too manly looking, right, Troofie?

    She is to me.

    Read More
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  112. Ivy says:
    @The Alarmist
    Yeah, but you kind of made my point: We are expected to stick to "safe" topics, but we get a non-stop stream of the left's agenda items and no opprtunity to safely discuss any valid points of contention.

    Locals only, and even then, only if you have the right mindset or keep your mouth shut.

    Doing my part to help another generation notice. Once they understand the process they will be better able to deal with it effectively, then they can hang ten.

    Read More
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