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  1. J.Ross says: • Website

    Is there any ideology or dogma about not wanting your face smashed, your home burglarized, your children attacked, or your business burnt down? Any verses to memorize or personalities to study? Is there any way back once you recognize that pain is real?
    That’s what the red pill is, and there are no other pills.

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  2. nebulafox says:

    It’s also important to really point out how bankrupt the GOP is, in the context of American politics specifically. Considering that the “mainstream right”, the “acceptable” right in the eyes of the media, includes major figures who advocate pre-emptively nuking Iran and treating Israel, a foreign nation, like the 51st state, view crony-capitalism as a desirable end result for America with billionaires taking on demigod status, are profoundly suspicious of science and seem to rejoice in the idea of uneducated Americans, and actively try to prevent Africans (and, indeed, poor Americans) from getting birth control, I’d really question whether the alt-righters are the nutty ones here, as far as national interests are concerned.

    About the one thing everybody here seems to have in common is a distaste for Conservatism Inc, for one reason or another.

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    • Troll: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    ".............are profoundly suspicious of science and seem to rejoice in the idea of uneducated Americans,........"

    I don't think they are "profoundly" suspicious of science. Perhaps they are just suspicious of some scientists. There is sometimes good reason to be. And I don't think they welcome "uneducated" Americans, so much as they don't welcome miseducated Americans.

    Other than that, I mostly agree with what you wrote. And you are right - the GOP was (still is) almost worthless. Trump won the Republican nomination largely by running against the Republican party.

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  3. Men and women may have different life aspirations???? Ethnic groups may commit crimes at different rates???? Oh my God, I think hell just froze over.

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    • Agree: Frau Katze
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  4. If the Alt-Right is so intelligent, how come I can’t remember the difference between “your” and “you’re”?

    I have about a 110 IQ. That’s all you need to understand politics. The key thing for the Alt-Right is to have courage and heart and the grim determination to fight through to victory.

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    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    I have about a 110 IQ. That’s all you need to understand politics.

    For a certain level of understanding.
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  5. Some of my best friends are associated with the alt-right, but I wouldn’t want my . . .

    Someone explain to me who this Steven Pinker is. He doesn’t seem to be Jordan Peterson, who as far as I can tell has already slammed down a fistful of red pills. He seems to have one of those red pills caught in that fold in the back of his throat where he cannot cough it up but cannot swallow it either?

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    • Agree: NickG
    • LOL: Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
    Does the video go on to enumerate any of the repellent reprllent conclusions Pinker alluded to?
    , @rogue-one
    Or he is smart enough to know how much further to the right of the overton window he can go without being ostracized.
    , @Wency
    My inclination is to categorize him with Scott Alexander as the "hereditarian left". People who accept most of the facts of HBD, but not its conclusions. Primarily because they constitutionally prefer the aesthetic of leftism and want to be accepted socially within leftist society, but they're too smart and interested in truth to totally reject what they see.

    Compare to the sort of Christian who seriously doubts most of the facts asserted by the religion but whose social network is centered on the church, enjoys attending services and being part of a community, and sincerely *wants* Christianity to be true on some level.
    , @helena
    He's the leading Prof of Evol Psychol in the world and he walks the tightrope between sanity and salary with admirable poise and articulation, and success.
    , @Frau Katze
    Pinker is well known, his book “The Blank Slate” is one of those books that will alter your outlook on a variety of things.

    It had that effect on my sister and me.

    The book has both right and left detractors.

    I notice that in the vid he notes male/female difference (his book discusses that too).

    On race he skates up to “race realism” but doesn’t go the whole way.

    He does not mention it in The Blank Slate either.

    The vilification of Charles Murray and others a powerful lesson.
    , @DJohn1
    Pinker has not even taken the red pill to the point that it is lodged in the corner of his throat. Pinker simply acknowledges reality which all of the panel members here are willing to do. He is nothing special and even a bit mealy mouthed next to his co-panelists.

    The above clip is quite minimal. Watch the entire panel.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vcn4cnpv6Y

    Jump to 1:08:43. An audience member brings up the question of white identitarianism in a very benign way. When you have affirmative action for women and Blacks and Muslims, who is being disaffirmed? White males. Why can you celebrate Black Power and LGBTQ Power but White Power is an invocation of racism?

    Note especially how the entire panel dodges the question. They look down, they look aside, the abomination is among them none among the faithful may acknowledge the abomination. The woman takes the hit for the team and gives the most minimal possible response simply because the question was too provocative not to respond to.

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  6. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    This is an excerpt from the Harvard stop of the Spiked Unsafe Space Tour, this 90 minute discussion entitled “Is political correctness why Trump won?”; full youtube here.

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  7. DFH says:

    I’m curious to know if Pinker was thinking just about racial truths, or also those about Jews.

    Read More
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Pinker in 2006(? 2008?) edited the annual Edge edition/symposium in which 100 "leading thinkers" are asked to write on a theme.

    Pinker's question to them - "What is your dangerous idea? An idea you think about (not necessarily one you originated) that is dangerous not because it is assumed to be false, but because it might be true?"

    https://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/dangerous08/dangerous08_index.html

    "Do women, on average, have a different profile of aptitudes and emotions than men? Were the events in the Bible fictitious — not just the miracles, but those involving kings and empires? Has the state of the environment improved in the last fifty years? Do most victims of sexual abuse suffer no lifelong damage? Did Native Americans engage in genocide and despoil the landscape? Do men have an innate tendency to rape? Did the crime rate go down in the 1990s because two decades earlier poor women aborted children who would have been prone to violence? Are suicide terrorists well educated, mentally healthy, and morally driven? Are Ashkenazi Jews, on average, smarter than gentiles because their ancestors were selected for the shrewdness needed in money lending? Would the incidence of rape go down if prostitution were legalized? Do African American men have higher levels of testosterone, on average, than white men? Is morality just a product of the evolution of our brains, with no inherent reality? Would society be better off if heroin and cocaine were legalized? Is homosexuality the symptom of an infectious disease? Would it be consistent with our moral principles to give parents the option of euthanizing newborns with birth defects that would consign them to a life of pain and disability? Do parents have any effect on the character or intelligence of their children? Have religions killed a greater proportion of people than Nazism? Would damage from terrorism be reduced if the police could torture suspects in special circumstances? Would Africa have a better chance of rising out of poverty if it hosted more polluting industries or accepted Europe's nuclear waste? Is the average intelligence of Western nations declining because duller people are having more children than smarter people? Would unwanted children be better off if there were a market in adoption rights, with babies going to the highest bidder? Would lives be saved if we instituted a free market in organs for transplantation? Should people have the right to clone themselves, or enhance the genetic traits of their children?

    Perhaps you can feel your blood pressure rise as you read these questions. Perhaps you are appalled that people can so much as think such things. Perhaps you think less of me for bringing them up. These are dangerous ideas — ideas that are denounced not because they are self-evidently false, nor because they advocate harmful action, but because they are thought to corrode the prevailing moral order. "
     
    Pinker knows what's what, but takes care to cover his back

    "By "dangerous ideas" I don't have in mind harmful technologies, like those behind weapons of mass destruction, or evil ideologies, like those of racist, fascist, or other fanatical cults. I have in mind statements of fact or policy that are defended with evidence and argument by serious scientists and thinkers but which are felt to challenge the collective decency of an age. The ideas in the first paragraph, and the moral panic that each one of them has incited during the past quarter century, are examples. Writers who have raised ideas like these have been vilified, censored, fired, threatened, and in some cases physically assaulted. "
     
    Note the first "leading thinker" - John Horgan, who bravely puts his life on the line by suggesting humans may not have souls.
    , @anon
    Oh, Pinker is very aware of certain Jewish distinctions. Pinker wrote some years ago in an essay about supposed Jewish brilliance about how stupid goyim were in not using every last scrap of fabric while making ties in his gramp's shop. Pinker being Pinker, he was careful to stress that it was his old-fashioned grandfather calling his workers "goyishe kop", not the esteemed professor.
    I don't know if it ever occurred to Pinker that it might have been a choice - not caring whether the grasping geezer could squeeze every last penny out of the material , rather than stupidity on his workers' part.
    , @anonymous
    Jews are giving ground but still want whites to hate Muslims. It still fits their war plans. A middle east Muslim war and a race war in America. Whites Christians must defend Muslims as Gods children and the victims of Jew cruelty and torment.
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  8. Bartolo says:

    Wow. Just wow. Obviously, he is not Alt-Right (sadly), but he can grant that we are not retarded monsters and say it publicly at such a venue. It takes cojones. Let this be a reminder for some alt-righters wo condemn Jews wholesale that so many of them are outstanding people in so many ways. Think Unz, Steven Miller, Jerry Seinfeld, Paul Gottfried, the late Larry Auster, Ilana Mercer… And in France, Zemmour, Finkielkraut, Elizabeth Lévy, Goldnadel… Let’s call Jews out whenever necessary, without fear; but let’s make a constant effort not to be hostile to the many, many upstanding and admirable people among them.

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    • Agree: Peter Johnson
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Miller, besides being stereotypically obnoxious, is also a cuck who won't think twice about unceremoniously throwing people under the bus. Read what he said about Richard Spencer. I get the need to distance oneself from more radical individuals. Obama did it. Bill Clinton did it. It's politics. But one can distance oneself like a loyal, honorable man, or one can distance oneself like a dishonorable coward, and Miller chose the latter.
    , @Yak-15
    Many here are WAY too focused on the negatives of Jews. I personally know many great Jews whose opinions tend to fall on our side. Why must we alienate potential high quality allies?

    Of course, the ones I know who holds views antithetical to ours are excruciatingly obnoxious and use their verbal acuity to distract from their complete obtuseness and ignorance of red pill axioms.
    , @ben tillman

    Wow. Just wow. Obviously, he is not Alt-Right (sadly), but he can grant that we are not retarded monsters and say it publicly at such a venue. It takes cojones. Let this be a reminder for some alt-righters wo condemn Jews wholesale that so many of them are outstanding people in so many ways.
     
    Pinker makes it clear that scientific examination of Jewry/Judaism remains off-limits.
    , @Frau Katze
    Agree. Raving about Jews is one of the things stopping the alt-right allying itself with many “skeptics”, as they call them on YouTube.

    I’ve been immersing myself in this YouTube culture.

    In general, they trend younger than Steve’s readers (although I’m sure some of his readers know all about this.)

    A lot of them got a ringside seat at “GamerGate”, and whole swaths of young men who play video games got red pilled big time.

    One of those was my son.

    It was all about making video games politically correct and it was highly unpopular. But the companies are still at it.
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  9. Bleuteaux says:

    I’m amazed that there are still people who are allowed to verbalize these thoughts at an Ivy league school. I really am. Having gone to a second-rate university where a 30-year tenured professor was fired for a blog post opposing gay marriage. Or take Cornell West’s opposition to TAC, moderate criticism of Obama. I assume it cannot be long before every single Harvard professor sounds identical to the worst internet troll out there.

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    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    I’m amazed that there are still people who are allowed to verbalize these thoughts at an Ivy league school.
     
    Let's wait and see.

    Steven Pinker, who skates on what SJWs would call thin ice, may yet see his career cratered if he voices some of these sentiments in a high-profile situation. Larry Summers learned that the hard way—being President of Harvard University gave him no protection, and the climate is much worse now than when he was hounded out of office.

    , @AndrewR
    Can you please elaborate on what happened to the professor, or at least provide a citation? Your claim defies credulity.
    , @L Woods
    There actually seems to be more appreciation for free expression/thought at the elite academic level in my perception. The further down the ladder you go, the more you find militant also-rans acting out on their acute status anxiety. For my part, I've never really run into trouble with faculty for my (too openly expressed for my own good) views; it's the 105 IQ lemming students that I don't get along with.
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  10. Bill P says:

    I think the “red pill” meme originated in the manosphere, but I don’t know for sure who popularized it. I never really liked it all that much myself, because I thought The Matrix was a ridiculous and totally PC movie, but admittedly as a term it’s a pretty good hook for the recently initiated. Also it expresses the fire/ice yang/yin dichotomy, which is sort of enlightening.

    Anyway, Pinker’s right as usual. He’s kind of interesting in that he’s one of the few people who can bring this stuff up in public without being lynched for it. I’ve got to give Pinker credit for that; he’s so intellectually deft that he can say things without really saying them. But still, you’ve got to wonder whether that doesn’t take the edge off his work.

    Unfortunately, we’re going to need a legion of guys like Pinker to steer the Leviathan in the right direction, and he’s pretty unique. Seems foreboding to me at this point.

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    • Agree: Travis
    • Replies: @whorefinder

    I think the “red pill” meme originated in the manosphere, but I don’t know for sure who popularized it. I never really liked it all that much myself, because I thought The Matrix was a ridiculous and totally PC movie, but admittedly as a term it’s a pretty good hook for the recently initiated. Also it expresses the fire/ice yang/yin dichotomy, which is sort of enlightening.
     
    The Matrix was pretty ridiculous, and for me very trite and predictable. "The world is all a meaningless illusion, the reality is we're all slaves, we need to revolt!" is a science fiction/ Marxist trope that I've seen before and instantly recognized (note that Cornell West had a speaking role in these films).

    Of course, being leftists, the Wachowskis messed up the payoff. The payoff should have been that all three Matrix movies themselves were all controlled/setup by the Matrix, a sort of Inception-like ending where Neo realizes that everything he's done is really part of the same computer simulation. This was hinted at at various points, but the Wachowski's shied away from it, muddling the ending.

    This is like how Fight Club was a fairly predictable movie, where it was fairly easy to guess that the Narrator and Tyler Durden were the same dude, thus the twist didn't work. The theme of anti-consumerism and male physicality and destruction was also fairly trite. About the only original part was the narrator blowing out his own brain to silence Tyler.

    However, Matrix and Fight Club were original to a whole generation of young men, who were young and impressionable and naive when they saw them and hadn't seen what they were derivative of, and if you aren't steeped in Marxist nonsense they do have alternative interpretations about truth and masculinity that work well with Alt-Right truths.

    In any event, the Left is pretty pissed that what they thought was an equaltarian-SJW-Marxist-trope has been turned against them.

    , @utu
    Were Wachowski brothers (sisters) influenced by The Futurological Congress of S. Lem (1971)?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Futurological_Congress
    Trottelreiner explains, "mascon" derives from mask, masquerade, mascara: "By introducing properly prepared mascons to the brain, one can mask any object in the outside world behind a fictitious image—superimposed—and with such dexterity, that the psychemasconated subject cannot tell which of his perceptions have been altered, and which have not. If but for a single instant you could see this world of ours the way it really is—undoctored, unadulterated, uncensored—you would drop in your tracks!"

    The professor then gives Tichy a flask of "up'n'at'm, one of the vigilanimides, a powerful countersomniac and antipsychem agent. A derivative of dimethylethylhexabutylpeptopeyotine". With his first sip of up'n'at'm, Tichy watches as the gilded surroundings of the five-star restaurant they are in evaporates into a dingy concrete bunker, and his stuffed pheasant turns into "the most unappetizing gray-brown gruel, which stuck in globs to my tin — no longer silver — fork".

    But this first dose is just the beginning of Tichy's journey. He sees that people do not drive cars or ride in elevators, but they run in the streets and climb the walls of empty elevator shafts, which explains why everyone in this new world is so out of breath. Robots whip people in the street and protect order. Through successive doses of up'n'at'm, Tichy sees increasingly horrible visions of the world, climaxing in a frozen horrorscape where people sleep blissfully in the snow, and the police robots are revealed to be people who are convinced that they are robots. The frozen state of the world explains why he has always found the new world to be so cold.
     


    http://forum.lem.pl/index.php?topic=834.0
    It must be said that I haven’t so far read explicitly the link between the famous Matrix series by the Wachowski brothers and The Congress of Futurology. Though the reader will surely find references that seem to me more than evident, it seems that reviewers haven’t yet paid attention, and as far as I know, the Wachowski brothers have not stated the influence of this of Lem’s work in their films. This regards the book’s leitmotiv: a world in which reality is created by psychotropic drugs, as the real world has become unbearable (I must say that as horrible as the real world created by the Wachowski brothers might be, It isn’t nearly as awful as the one described by Lem).
     

    https://www.challengingdestiny.com/reviews/futurological.htm
    When I originally reviewed this book, the movie The Matrix had not been released. When I re-read The Futurological Congress, I was struck by many parallels between this book and the world of that movie. The Wachowski Brothers have always admitted that they borrowed liberally from the genre of science fiction; in one possibly coincidental similarity, Ijon Tichy is offered a choice of two pills by his girlfriend, one pill to make him forget the relationship and the other to make him commit more fully. The colour of the pills may differ (Lem uses black and white pills, while the famous choice of pills in The Matrix was between blue and red), but the book and the movie share many of the same concerns about reality and the nature of the self against the background of such reality flux.
     
    , @Anonymous

    I never really liked it all that much myself, because I thought The Matrix was a ridiculous and totally PC movie
     
    Thanks--I thought I was the only one.
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    The Matrix's red pill/blue pill dichotomy was likely lifted from the original Total Recall. The symbolism and significance are almost identical:

    https://youtu.be/nWfh0OuTKKE
    , @Dmitry
    The red-pill thing - it's just a cheap peasant-level version of Plato's cave story. Similarly with metaphor about being 'woke'.

    I think that most, or a least a significant proportion of, young people - when they get to about 18, yearn for this kind of 'Plato's cave' experience. And this type of 'forbidden knowledge -> enlightenment' structure is how most ideologies/religions/cults try to present themselves (the most farcical example is probably Scientology). They use this structure because it is an effective way to get new acolytes from this demographic. Note how it appeals to young people's egoism, that they have access to some kind of superior knowledge that their elders/peers/teachers/parents, etc, lack, or are not brave/honest enough to face.

    Which particular ideology these young people fall for, is a bit like old-fashioned marriage market, where the first suitor is the most likely to get the bride. In the case of college students, whether this be hippy counter-culture, Marxism, the alt-left or the alt-right (the Nazi movement in 1920s Germany took off on college campuses in Germany) - or whatever is the newest fad - in some sense seems arbitrary. It is not unheard of in the United States for impressionable youngsters attracted to the alt-left to become alt-right, and vice-versa, within the space of a year or less. (I read recently that the guy who writes Daily Stormer website was at first a far-left vegetarian, before he sensed the currents were changing).

    The interesting point that Pinker makes, is that the entry for getting acolytes is through presenting certain truths that are not addressed by current society, or current polite society. This is indeed how ideologies operate or manage to recruit - it's why Marxism was particularly successful in recruiting Western college students raised in bourgeois homes, in which the unpleasant reality of inequality, or the source of their wealth, is allegedly not discussed, or is rationalized by 'false consciousness'. Likewise with sexual liberation movements, feminism (which still attracts a lot of young women), and so on.

    The tragedy - aside from the political implications of all these various ideological movements of the far-left, far-right, or even nowadays the center-left - is that young people are sucked into them at just the time they should be focusing on their career, or on real objective and open-minded study of maths/science/languages.

    At the same time, they are useful in showing us what kind of idiotically obvious things our society refuses to tackle - and I think this is what Pinker is finding interesting.

    In the case of the United States, it's not just that the list of these obvious truths is getting longer and longer (to the extent, that even a sensible immigration policy is 'verboten'). But also that the mainstream center-left has itself been taken over by cult ideologies.

    It's why 'Sweden bashing' has become no longer the province of this extremist fringe, and even Westernizing Russian liberals have to spend time apologizing for the radicalism of the Western left, before they have any chance to sell their point of view to common sense people.

    , @TGGP
    Mencius Moldbug was the first I can recall using it as a metaphor for political incorrectness, although he wasn't particularly interested in men vs women.
    , @Mr. Anon

    Unfortunately, we’re going to need a legion of guys like Pinker to steer the Leviathan in the right direction, and he’s pretty unique. Seems foreboding to me at this point.
     
    I agree. Pinker is a smart and honorable guy - an old fashioned academic who actually believes in the truth, and just as important, believes that the truth is a good in itself. But there aren't many like him, and even Pinker will eventually retire and be replaced by some SJW commissar. The search committe won't make the mistake of hiring somebody like him.
    , @Dieter Kief
    Steven Pinker is not alone. There are others - and what's been really refreshing last year is the fact, that they started to conncet.

    I think of: Jonathan Haidt, Jordan B. Peterson, Stefan Molyneux, Camille Paglia, Sam Harris and others (Douglas and Charles Murray...). And Pinker is part of this pretty impresive group of intellectuals which are - by and large - saying what - ehe - Steve Sailer and Ron Unz (Anatoly Karlin and James Thompson) are saying on a lot of crucial subjects (race, IQ, crime), too.


    PS
    (Btw - I'm still wondering what that most important book will be, Steve Sailer hinted at - with almost these words - last year; and there's a new Pinker book announced for springtime...).

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  11. whorefinder says: • Website

    Pinker seems to be openly saying that the facts that the Alt-Right is saying is right, but they’re just taking their conclusions to extremes.

    He’s obviously speaking vaguely to avoid being pinned down on what “facts” that are verboten in public are actually true, and would likely deny any individual one as true if cross-examined and would run away from that statement if questioned too much.

    I’m interested in is what conclusions are too “extreme” based on said facts.

    He seems to be saying free speech shouldn’t be shut down because it acts a a safety inoculation, but the Left looks at the power held by Leftists in China and North Korea and Venezuela and Cuba and goes, “Or we can just do what they do, ban the truth and destroy the lives of anyone speaking uncomfortable truths and live in power.”

    Pinker’s arguments assumes the Left isn’t a bunch of power-hungry little nutcases, which is the major error.

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    • Replies: @Forbes

    Pinker’s arguments assumes the Left isn’t a bunch of power-hungry little nutcases, which is the major error.
     
    Effectively, you're faulting Pinker for NOT making an assumption. An assumption that is not necessary to draw the conclusions he makes.

    You're entitled to disagree with him, of course. But then you're making a different argument.
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  12. whorefinder says: • Website
    @Bill P
    I think the "red pill" meme originated in the manosphere, but I don't know for sure who popularized it. I never really liked it all that much myself, because I thought The Matrix was a ridiculous and totally PC movie, but admittedly as a term it's a pretty good hook for the recently initiated. Also it expresses the fire/ice yang/yin dichotomy, which is sort of enlightening.

    Anyway, Pinker's right as usual. He's kind of interesting in that he's one of the few people who can bring this stuff up in public without being lynched for it. I've got to give Pinker credit for that; he's so intellectually deft that he can say things without really saying them. But still, you've got to wonder whether that doesn't take the edge off his work.

    Unfortunately, we're going to need a legion of guys like Pinker to steer the Leviathan in the right direction, and he's pretty unique. Seems foreboding to me at this point.

    I think the “red pill” meme originated in the manosphere, but I don’t know for sure who popularized it. I never really liked it all that much myself, because I thought The Matrix was a ridiculous and totally PC movie, but admittedly as a term it’s a pretty good hook for the recently initiated. Also it expresses the fire/ice yang/yin dichotomy, which is sort of enlightening.

    The Matrix was pretty ridiculous, and for me very trite and predictable. “The world is all a meaningless illusion, the reality is we’re all slaves, we need to revolt!” is a science fiction/ Marxist trope that I’ve seen before and instantly recognized (note that Cornell West had a speaking role in these films).

    Of course, being leftists, the Wachowskis messed up the payoff. The payoff should have been that all three Matrix movies themselves were all controlled/setup by the Matrix, a sort of Inception-like ending where Neo realizes that everything he’s done is really part of the same computer simulation. This was hinted at at various points, but the Wachowski’s shied away from it, muddling the ending.

    This is like how Fight Club was a fairly predictable movie, where it was fairly easy to guess that the Narrator and Tyler Durden were the same dude, thus the twist didn’t work. The theme of anti-consumerism and male physicality and destruction was also fairly trite. About the only original part was the narrator blowing out his own brain to silence Tyler.

    However, Matrix and Fight Club were original to a whole generation of young men, who were young and impressionable and naive when they saw them and hadn’t seen what they were derivative of, and if you aren’t steeped in Marxist nonsense they do have alternative interpretations about truth and masculinity that work well with Alt-Right truths.

    In any event, the Left is pretty pissed that what they thought was an equaltarian-SJW-Marxist-trope has been turned against them.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    The Matrix was pretty ridiculous, and for me very trite and predictable. “The world is all a meaningless illusion, the reality is we’re all slaves, we need to revolt!” is a science fiction/ Marxist trope that I’ve seen before and instantly recognized
     
    They were doing a pretty obvious riff on Plato's allegory of the cave. It was reasonably effective, at least compared to the sequels, where they tried to bring German philosophy to the big screen. I suppose that Plato is inherently more cinematic than Hegel and Co.
    , @Mr. Anon
    I agree about The Matrix - it was crap of a kind that seemed designed to appeal to the Dylan Klebolds of the world. Even leaving aside the ridiculous McGuffin - of humans being used as batteries. I heard that it was largely ripped off from a Hong Kong movie or an anime or something. I don't know. In any event, I found the whole thing to be repellant and loathsome, as one would expect from a couple of degenerate weirdos like the Wachowski "sisters".

    However, I found Fight Club to be pretty good. I didn't see a bunch of warmed over marxism in it, rather I noticed themes that would become common in the manosphere - men being tamed, neutered, robbed of their masculinity by a society that valued them only as compliant, docile consumers. Rather than seeing it as left-wing, I experienced it as being rather conservative, if only in a naive sort of way. Although I'm a boomer, I got it, however the movie really seemed to resonate with Gen Xers.
    , @Dave Pinsen

    The Matrix was pretty ridiculous, and for me very trite and predictable.
     
    Do trite movies generally inspire books by philosophers? The humans-as-batteries motivation was weak, but the (original) Matrix was innovative, entertaining, commercially successful, and hugely influential. And as commercial movies go, it was practically highbrow. I saw it a theater sitting in front of NAMs who, judging by their comments, were frequently confused by it.

    It's tough to look back objectively on movies that are as influential as the Matrix, because they seem cliched in hindsight, but that hindsight isn't accurate. Greatness and originality become cliche with time and repetition. A friend who liked Heat emailed me recently and said he’d watched Michael Mann’s ’80s Hannibal pic Manhunter and thought it was terrible. I disagreed, but could see the problem. It basically launched the profiler genre, one that’s been beaten to death. So, seen through the lens of all that came after, it seems cliched. But viewed on its own merits it’s great.

    This is like how Fight Club was a fairly predictable movie, where it was fairly easy to guess that the Narrator and Tyler Durden were the same dude...
     
    It wasn't that easy to guess, first time around, but even if you had guessed it, did you guess how Fight Club would morph into Project Mayhem, or the climax? Probably not.

    However, Matrix and Fight Club were original to a whole generation of young men, who were young and impressionable and naive when they saw them and hadn’t seen what they were derivative of
     
    They seemed original because they were. Being influenced by prior art doesn't change that. It's hard to think of a prior movie offhand that included all of the themes Fight Club did.
    , @NMo
    Fight Club: "About the only original part was the narrator blowing out his own brain to silence Tyler."

    See "William Wilson" by Edgar Allen Poe. Merging anti-consumerism and manosphere themes with William Wilson may be original, but the ending, strictly speaking, was not.
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  13. Sajmon says:

    Pinker is brilliant but this subject is where he’s succumb to bad input bias. He believes sources like NYT & WaPo for reporting on SJW/Alt-Rightism so he’s got a total false reality playing in his mind. My favourite part is when he talks about the need for context, then provides the “right wing extremism” numbers as an ‘informed’ response to Islamic terror concern without delving into the per capita numbers. He’s only brave to a point before retreating into acceptable discourse. In fact this seems to be the focus of the new anti-PC centrists; they criticize censorship, but tailor their arguments to fall within the parameters set by the censors even at the expense of intellectual honesty.

    So brilliant on the one hand, but being a gate-keeper on the other.

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    • Agree: Bill B.
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    " they criticize censorship, but tailor their arguments to fall within the parameters set by the censors even at the expense of intellectual honesty.

    So brilliant on the one hand, but being a gate-keeper on the other."

    Maybe not. Self censoring may be necessary to get the message through in many venues. Plinker may be working within the form to avoid having his whole response edited out of the final version of the video. That doesn't make him a gatekeeper, just a man doing what he has to do in order to get past the gatekeepers.
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  14. Pinker is rather straightforward about naming a few obvious major premises that might start some syllogisms. He is very shy about going on to add a minor premise and the appropriate conclusion:

    (1) Major Premise: Certain ethnic (sic) groups commit more crime than other ethnic (sic) groups
    Minor Premise: We would prefer that there be less crime in our society.
    Conclusion: We would prefer fewer members of high-crime ethnic (sic) groups in our society.

    Corollary: We would prefer not to admit Somalis, et al. into our society.

    And Pinker is not so crazy as to even consider mentioning racial (or to use his terminology, ethnic) group differences in the psychological capacity fully to adjust and contribute to our society, e.g., well known racial disparities in IQ and OCEAN, let alone discuss the policy implications of these.

    Pinker is a modern-day Galileo; brave enough to mention the truth but wise enough not to do so too loudly or in too public a manner. Watson is his Giordano Bruno, a condign example of what can happen to those who cry out obstreperously or effectively against the madness currently rampant within America’s and Europe’s ruling elites.

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    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    (1) Major Premise: Certain ethnic (sic) groups commit more crime than other ethnic (sic) groups
    Minor Premise: We would prefer that there be less crime in our society.
    Conclusion: We would prefer fewer members of high-crime ethnic (sic) groups in our society.

    Corollary: We would prefer not to admit Somalis, et al. into our society.

    Oh, come on. If you're going to go for it, go for the gold: the corollary is that we would prefer to not have American Blacks in our society.

    , @The preferred nomenclature is...
    I saw and heard him on CSPAN Book program run by Brian Lamb where he point-blank denied there was IQ difference for blacks when he was asked that direct question from Lamb. Of course, he looked like he had just taken a bite of an onion when he said it.

    I've not had cable for years and Pinker's hair was not that gray. It was probably 8 or so years back. Well worth a look see if anyone can find it.
    , @Frau Katze
    A good analogy. I can’t use the agree button so this will have to suffice.
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  15. utu says:
    @Bill P
    I think the "red pill" meme originated in the manosphere, but I don't know for sure who popularized it. I never really liked it all that much myself, because I thought The Matrix was a ridiculous and totally PC movie, but admittedly as a term it's a pretty good hook for the recently initiated. Also it expresses the fire/ice yang/yin dichotomy, which is sort of enlightening.

    Anyway, Pinker's right as usual. He's kind of interesting in that he's one of the few people who can bring this stuff up in public without being lynched for it. I've got to give Pinker credit for that; he's so intellectually deft that he can say things without really saying them. But still, you've got to wonder whether that doesn't take the edge off his work.

    Unfortunately, we're going to need a legion of guys like Pinker to steer the Leviathan in the right direction, and he's pretty unique. Seems foreboding to me at this point.

    Were Wachowski brothers (sisters) influenced by The Futurological Congress of S. Lem (1971)?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Futurological_Congress
    Trottelreiner explains, “mascon” derives from mask, masquerade, mascara: “By introducing properly prepared mascons to the brain, one can mask any object in the outside world behind a fictitious image—superimposed—and with such dexterity, that the psychemasconated subject cannot tell which of his perceptions have been altered, and which have not. If but for a single instant you could see this world of ours the way it really is—undoctored, unadulterated, uncensored—you would drop in your tracks!”

    The professor then gives Tichy a flask of “up’n’at’m, one of the vigilanimides, a powerful countersomniac and antipsychem agent. A derivative of dimethylethylhexabutylpeptopeyotine”. With his first sip of up’n’at’m, Tichy watches as the gilded surroundings of the five-star restaurant they are in evaporates into a dingy concrete bunker, and his stuffed pheasant turns into “the most unappetizing gray-brown gruel, which stuck in globs to my tin — no longer silver — fork”.

    But this first dose is just the beginning of Tichy’s journey. He sees that people do not drive cars or ride in elevators, but they run in the streets and climb the walls of empty elevator shafts, which explains why everyone in this new world is so out of breath. Robots whip people in the street and protect order. Through successive doses of up’n’at’m, Tichy sees increasingly horrible visions of the world, climaxing in a frozen horrorscape where people sleep blissfully in the snow, and the police robots are revealed to be people who are convinced that they are robots. The frozen state of the world explains why he has always found the new world to be so cold.

    http://forum.lem.pl/index.php?topic=834.0
    It must be said that I haven’t so far read explicitly the link between the famous Matrix series by the Wachowski brothers and The Congress of Futurology. Though the reader will surely find references that seem to me more than evident, it seems that reviewers haven’t yet paid attention, and as far as I know, the Wachowski brothers have not stated the influence of this of Lem’s work in their films. This regards the book’s leitmotiv: a world in which reality is created by psychotropic drugs, as the real world has become unbearable (I must say that as horrible as the real world created by the Wachowski brothers might be, It isn’t nearly as awful as the one described by Lem).

    https://www.challengingdestiny.com/reviews/futurological.htm
    When I originally reviewed this book, the movie The Matrix had not been released. When I re-read The Futurological Congress, I was struck by many parallels between this book and the world of that movie. The Wachowski Brothers have always admitted that they borrowed liberally from the genre of science fiction; in one possibly coincidental similarity, Ijon Tichy is offered a choice of two pills by his girlfriend, one pill to make him forget the relationship and the other to make him commit more fully. The colour of the pills may differ (Lem uses black and white pills, while the famous choice of pills in The Matrix was between blue and red), but the book and the movie share many of the same concerns about reality and the nature of the self against the background of such reality flux.

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    • Replies: @Percy Gryce
    Thanks for the references to Lem.
    , @David Davenport
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Futurological_Congress
    Trottelreiner explains, “mascon” derives from mask, masquerade, mascara: “By introducing properly prepared mascons to the brain, one can mask any object in the outside world behind a fictitious image ...

    Another possible source for "mascon: mass concentrations in celestial masses:


    orbital motion - Why do "mascons" perturb orbits? - Physics Stack ...

    https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/89872/why-do-mascons-perturb-orbits
    Dec 11, 2013 - It's often worth considering an extreme example. Suppose, for instance, that we put virtually all of the mass of the moon into four extremely dense "mascons" located near the surface and at the vertices of a square (whose center would, therefore, necessarily coincide with the center of the moon.) ...

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  16. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill P
    I think the "red pill" meme originated in the manosphere, but I don't know for sure who popularized it. I never really liked it all that much myself, because I thought The Matrix was a ridiculous and totally PC movie, but admittedly as a term it's a pretty good hook for the recently initiated. Also it expresses the fire/ice yang/yin dichotomy, which is sort of enlightening.

    Anyway, Pinker's right as usual. He's kind of interesting in that he's one of the few people who can bring this stuff up in public without being lynched for it. I've got to give Pinker credit for that; he's so intellectually deft that he can say things without really saying them. But still, you've got to wonder whether that doesn't take the edge off his work.

    Unfortunately, we're going to need a legion of guys like Pinker to steer the Leviathan in the right direction, and he's pretty unique. Seems foreboding to me at this point.

    I never really liked it all that much myself, because I thought The Matrix was a ridiculous and totally PC movie

    Thanks–I thought I was the only one.

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    • Replies: @Jeff Albertson
    I couldn't even watch the whole thing because I've got some kind of typecasting thing going on.
    It was Ted from Bill and Ted, cowboy Curtis and the elf king to me. Plus I was already tired of cgi.
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  17. tanabear says:

    Steven Pinker is attempting to walk the tightrope between revealing these truths and not being condemned for saying them. He tries to get away with this by stating that the Alt-Right ideas are repellent, but he never says exactly why. He still wants to give the impression that the Left, which promotes these lies, are somehow morally superior to the Alt-Right. People hear these ideas for the first time and they become “radicalized” by them says Pinker. That is the idea. If you aren’t “radicalized” by knowing the Truth in a society that lives by lies you are an intellectual and moral coward. It is these Truths which make someone immune to the lies from the Left. It is similar to a vaccination, once you are aware of these Truths no amount of lies can ever infect you again.

    “In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” George Orwell

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    • Replies: @Ivy
    Spooks and DC people have their Limited Hangouts. Pinker and other academics would fancy up the name, maybe write a grant proposal or two, for a similar function.
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  18. Worth noting: if you watch longer clips of this panel discussion, Pinker goes on to provide nice, safe center-left spins on the “scary facts” he relates. For instance, on black crime, he says that it used to be the Irish who had the reputation as violent drunkards, and look, they changed over time. No reason to think other groups won’t change their behavior, too! Hey, if it happens, then great. But we’re talking generations for that to happen. And it won’t happen until there is a reckoning about black culture in America. People like Glenn Loury and John McWhorter try to get this started but it gets nowhere. And while we’re talking about the here and now, not some imagined future, when I try to slightly redpill leftist friends of mine on race/crime stats, they reply that statistics can’t be trusted, they are “complex,” and further that the police patrol more heavily in black neighborhoods, so of course there is going to be more police reports filed. The problem isn’t that non-leftists are assuming blacks will never get their act together, it’s that we can’t even talk honestly about what is going on today. Pinker bypasses that by talking about the future.

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    • Replies: @Big Bill

    [W]hen I try to slightly redpill leftist friends of mine on race/crime stats, they reply that statistics can’t be trusted, they are “complex,” and further that the police patrol more heavily in black neighborhoods, so of course there is going to be more police reports filed.
     
    Thus the reason blacks are arrested so much is because there are so many police cruising the ghetto looking for blacks to fill the school-to-prison pipeline. The unspoken (but obvious) solution is fewer police and arrests in the ghetto.

    But when you change the subject to the recent jump in black-on-black murder rates they will shift gears and say that blacks are being murdered at higher rates because the police are DE-policing the ghetto. Cops need to be more aggressive.

    Liberals believe there is this magic "sweet spot" in which the Goldilocks police are "not too cold and not too hot, but just right".

    I have taken a couple on Google street view ghetto tours and asked them why all the ghetto houses have bars on the windows and doors. Are they afraid of the police? Afraid of traveling salesmen? Afraid of Mormon missionaries? Or are they afraid of their own sons and daughters?
    , @Samuel Skinner

    For instance, on black crime, he says that it used to be the Irish who had the reputation as violent drunkards, and look, they changed over time.
     
    Aren't the Irish still violent drunkards compared to WASPs (the people who were doing the complaining)?
    , @anon
    For instance, on black crime, he says that it used to be the Irish who had the reputation as violent drunkards, and look, they changed over time. No reason to think other groups won’t change their behavior, too! Hey, if it happens, then great. But we’re talking generations for that to happen.

    I've always been really annoyed by this argument. You hear it a lot about Muslims. The basic idea is, we just have to put up with their terrorism and crime for a century, and then, after that, they'll be just like us.

    But if they end up just like us, then what's the point? We already are just like us. If we need more people just like us, why not just encourage people to have more kids? Then we can have a bunch more people like us without having to put up with their BS for a century.

    And that's assuming it actually does work. There's no guarantee it will, and if it doesn't, then how are we supposed to put things back the way they were?

    Even as a best-case scenario, it's still a net negative to bring these people here. But not one person in the media ever makes this point. It's pretty obvious, too. People think it's ridiculous to suggest some sort of conspiracy in the media to prevent people from saying these things, but how else do you explain the fact that nobody ever makes that point?

    , @Elli
    In his books, Pinker has written about Europeans becoming less violent, an evolutionary process taking five centuries or so, as a result of violent men being removed from the gene pool by violence or execution or imprisonment, and playing nice or by the rules being a better way to get ahead and leave descendants in a mercantile or industrial society, to simplify a good deal. The bastard children of socially deviant women also had a very high mortality rate.

    Those selective pressures won't work in the modern welfare state - the modern welfare state selects for the violent and promiscuous in the existing underclass.
    , @pyrrhus
    Not to mention that the Irish to Blacks comparison fails because the Irish were much more intelligent than Blacks, and had a much higher literacy rate...Violence being directly correlated to stupidity, the Irish were never the problem that Blacks are in America.
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  19. @Bill P
    I think the "red pill" meme originated in the manosphere, but I don't know for sure who popularized it. I never really liked it all that much myself, because I thought The Matrix was a ridiculous and totally PC movie, but admittedly as a term it's a pretty good hook for the recently initiated. Also it expresses the fire/ice yang/yin dichotomy, which is sort of enlightening.

    Anyway, Pinker's right as usual. He's kind of interesting in that he's one of the few people who can bring this stuff up in public without being lynched for it. I've got to give Pinker credit for that; he's so intellectually deft that he can say things without really saying them. But still, you've got to wonder whether that doesn't take the edge off his work.

    Unfortunately, we're going to need a legion of guys like Pinker to steer the Leviathan in the right direction, and he's pretty unique. Seems foreboding to me at this point.

    The Matrix’s red pill/blue pill dichotomy was likely lifted from the original Total Recall. The symbolism and significance are almost identical:

    https://youtu.be/nWfh0OuTKKE

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  20. Cato says:

    “when they are exposed for the first time to truths that have not been
    voiced in college campuses or the New York Times or respectable
    media… it’s a bacillus towards which they have no immunity and they
    are immediately infected with a sense of outrage that these truths are
    unsayable and no defense against taking them to conclusions which we
    would consider to be rather repellent conclusions.”

    Pinker really understands the dynamic: you finally figure something out, that is completely different from what you were taught, and you discover that this is something totally taboo to express to others. So you cower down, keep it to yourself, never leak out a word, and when a politician appears who says some of this, even though you always considered him the most loathsome kind of attention whore, you end up voting for him, because you think that he, more than the others, has glimpsed the truth. Trump, of course, fooled us all, but I hope the real McCoy steps up in 2020.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stebbing Heuer
    But it's not just realising a truth.

    It's then also realising that all of the institutions that you trusted have conspired to conceal this truth from you and lie to you about it.

    Followed by the realisation that, if they're lying about this, then they are likely lying about other things as well.

    That's when the illusions die, and reality comes flooding in.

    That's the red pill.
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  21. He was too afraid to mention IQ.

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  22. Dmitry says:
    @Bill P
    I think the "red pill" meme originated in the manosphere, but I don't know for sure who popularized it. I never really liked it all that much myself, because I thought The Matrix was a ridiculous and totally PC movie, but admittedly as a term it's a pretty good hook for the recently initiated. Also it expresses the fire/ice yang/yin dichotomy, which is sort of enlightening.

    Anyway, Pinker's right as usual. He's kind of interesting in that he's one of the few people who can bring this stuff up in public without being lynched for it. I've got to give Pinker credit for that; he's so intellectually deft that he can say things without really saying them. But still, you've got to wonder whether that doesn't take the edge off his work.

    Unfortunately, we're going to need a legion of guys like Pinker to steer the Leviathan in the right direction, and he's pretty unique. Seems foreboding to me at this point.

    The red-pill thing – it’s just a cheap peasant-level version of Plato’s cave story. Similarly with metaphor about being ‘woke’.

    I think that most, or a least a significant proportion of, young people – when they get to about 18, yearn for this kind of ‘Plato’s cave’ experience. And this type of ‘forbidden knowledge -> enlightenment’ structure is how most ideologies/religions/cults try to present themselves (the most farcical example is probably Scientology). They use this structure because it is an effective way to get new acolytes from this demographic. Note how it appeals to young people’s egoism, that they have access to some kind of superior knowledge that their elders/peers/teachers/parents, etc, lack, or are not brave/honest enough to face.

    Which particular ideology these young people fall for, is a bit like old-fashioned marriage market, where the first suitor is the most likely to get the bride. In the case of college students, whether this be hippy counter-culture, Marxism, the alt-left or the alt-right (the Nazi movement in 1920s Germany took off on college campuses in Germany) – or whatever is the newest fad – in some sense seems arbitrary. It is not unheard of in the United States for impressionable youngsters attracted to the alt-left to become alt-right, and vice-versa, within the space of a year or less. (I read recently that the guy who writes Daily Stormer website was at first a far-left vegetarian, before he sensed the currents were changing).

    The interesting point that Pinker makes, is that the entry for getting acolytes is through presenting certain truths that are not addressed by current society, or current polite society. This is indeed how ideologies operate or manage to recruit – it’s why Marxism was particularly successful in recruiting Western college students raised in bourgeois homes, in which the unpleasant reality of inequality, or the source of their wealth, is allegedly not discussed, or is rationalized by ‘false consciousness’. Likewise with sexual liberation movements, feminism (which still attracts a lot of young women), and so on.

    The tragedy – aside from the political implications of all these various ideological movements of the far-left, far-right, or even nowadays the center-left – is that young people are sucked into them at just the time they should be focusing on their career, or on real objective and open-minded study of maths/science/languages.

    At the same time, they are useful in showing us what kind of idiotically obvious things our society refuses to tackle – and I think this is what Pinker is finding interesting.

    In the case of the United States, it’s not just that the list of these obvious truths is getting longer and longer (to the extent, that even a sensible immigration policy is ‘verboten’). But also that the mainstream center-left has itself been taken over by cult ideologies.

    It’s why ‘Sweden bashing’ has become no longer the province of this extremist fringe, and even Westernizing Russian liberals have to spend time apologizing for the radicalism of the Western left, before they have any chance to sell their point of view to common sense people.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR

    Westernizing Russian liberals have to spend time apologizing for the radicalism of the Western left, before they have any chance to sell their point of view to common sense people.
     
    This makes intuitive sense, but do you actually know this for a fact? Are you actually familiar with the rhetoric used by "Westernizing Russian liberals"? If so, how?

    Sorry to grill you, but the rhetoric of "Westernizing Russian liberals" seems like a very obscure and improbable thing for an American to be familiar with, and you present your claims without describing how you supposedly came upon this knowledge, so one is left with many questions.

    Edit: ok now I saw your name lol... I guess you probably left Russia as a child, given that your English skills probably exceed all living Dmitrys.

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  23. Moses says:

    Pinker makes an important point, namely, that refusal to recognize or discuss, say, intrinsic sex differences, is pushing some people to question the entire narrative.

    He suggests that the left should recognize such differences while pushing its point of view that (undeniable) intrinsic gender or racial differences can be consistent with lefty PC & multikult beliefs

    He doesn’t really address the elephant in the room, which is that given recognition of intrinsic differences the alt-right has an incredibly powerful argument which leads to its conclusions in the same way water flows down a hill.

    I suspect that if non-PC facts were acceptable to discuss in polite company then many (most?) people would arrive at similar alt-right conclusions about gender and race. That’s what happened to me. I used to be 100% cuck before I started paying attention to patterns.

    My own journey reminds me of the Thomas Jefferson quote: “We are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead…” Well, the truth leads inexorably to conclusions abhorrent to the left. That’s why they’ll never allow frank and open discussion of facts they don’t like. You saw it in Google’s reaction to Damore’s memo.

    The left will never be reasonable. They will double down and oppress until they can’t.

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    • Agree: AndrewR
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Indeed. To refine your last line: ideologues will resort to any means necessary to silence dissent and ensure total conformity. History shows us that it's not just a "leftist" thing, although, certainly in the US in 2018, leftists are the reigning hegemons.
    , @Opinionator
    Could you please detail the progress of your own journey?
    , @anon
    I suspect that if non-PC facts were acceptable to discuss in polite company then many (most?) people would arrive at similar alt-right conclusions about gender and race.

    Exactly, and that's why they won't really change. Right now, as Pinker points out, they have the problem of a few freaks and weirdos (no offense, of course. I count myself as one of them.) acknowledging all this stuff. But if they start talking about it honestly, then you're going to have millions and millions of people who know about it, and that would be a disaster.

    And any transition from the current state of lying about everything, to some future state in which they tell the truth, but just spin it, will be a problem too. They're basically going to have to admit that they've been lying this whole time, and who would trust them after that?

    That's why it seems like they'll probably just keep isolating and shaming the people who are honest about things. Sure, it's not a perfect solution, but at least they can handle it. Telling the whole truth could be a disaster, from their point of view.
    , @ben tillman

    My own journey reminds me of the Thomas Jefferson quote: “We are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead…” Well, the truth leads inexorably to conclusions abhorrent to the left. That’s why they’ll never allow frank and open discussion of facts they don’t like. You saw it in Google’s reaction to Damore’s memo.

    The left will never be reasonable. They will double down and oppress until they can’t.
     
    Of course. Everything they believe is wrong, in both a factual and a moral sense.
    , @biz

    I suspect that if non-PC facts were acceptable to discuss in polite company then many (most?) people would arrive at similar alt-right conclusions about gender and race.
     
    That's quite a leap. As recently as the 80s or even the 90s most of today's non-PC facts were widely accepted throughout society. Things like men and women on average have many different talents and goals, that some people are naturally smarter or more athletic or gifted in other ways than others, and that certain groups commit more crime. Basically the opposite of blank-slatism and news-denialsm was the default mode of thought. And yet that didn't lead most mainstream people to want a 'white ethnostate,' or for their daughters to be outfitted with a chastity belt and kept out of college and married off to a 40 year old man and pregnant at 16, or to be driven to distraction by Jews in any way, or any of the other obsessions of the alt-right.
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  24. a reader says:

    Steve, you got a secret reader 10 Downing Street, and at Cornell as well.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Narcissism isn't exactly an obscure concept, and David Cameron got to know Barack Obama as well as any world leader did, so there's no reason to think Cameron couldn't have independently concluded Obama is a narcissist.
    , @Simon Tugmutton
    As far as Cameron was concerned, the old adage springs to mind: "It takes one to know one."

    Luckily he is no longer in 10 Downing Street, though his successor is equally useless.
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  25. His thesis is that suppressed truths un-suppress themselves with predictable results. I agree.

    Unfortunately, I will now have to devote a significant fraction of my retirement to becoming familiar with this guy’s works.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Why?
    , @Harry Baldwin
    Check him out on YouTube. Every time Pinker comes out with a new book, he delivers an hour or hour-and-a-half long lecture on it. If you listen to the lecture, you'll get all the important points. He's a great speaker and always has interesting to say. I've never bothered to actually read his books.
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  26. J.Ross says: • Website

    4chan’s science board takes in a Womyn For Science paper proving male inferiority by, as I understand it, comparing wildly unlike academic papers and boldly reversing the Flesch scale. A lot of these comments are very good, very substantive and well written (and therefore by men). If you visit, notice it’s a blue board, stay worksafe.

    http://boards.4chan.org/sci/thread/9418923

    Both the paper at issue and the related observations (“scientific facts are social constructs”) lead me to endorse Trump somehow bringing Pinker into government. It would be dangerous in the best possible way and would blow out of the water the establishment sci-celebs.

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  27. “…he’s so intellectually deft that he can say things without really saying them”

    But in this clip he does just come out and drop a lot of facts right there in the open.

    I honestly think it’s his mousy demeanor that insulates him and makes it all the more shocking.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Maybe that's why he affects that fuzzy-bear hairstyle.
    , @al gore rhythms
    I don't think these facts are as controversial as you claim. Liberals don't deny that blacks commit more crime for example. Where I part company with them is that they claim this is my fault and the fault of my culture, and both need to either be destroyed or remade, whereas I don't think that and I don't want that.
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  28. The Z Blog says: • Website

    It used to be that cognitive elites were careful to not speak of things like religion and politics around the commoners. Today, the commoners must take care to not speak about observable reality around the cognitive elites.

    Read More
    • Agree: Dmitry, Desiderius
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    They're elite at abstraction, which is not the whole - or even the better part of - cognition.

    What we're seeing is massive mismatch, and not just on account of race.
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  29. we don’t need boomers like pinker; boomers are a lost cause.

    what we–the people who created the alt right to clean up the mess left by boomers–need is the *next* generation of white boys. and we are getting them.

    Read More
    • Agree: epochehusserl
    • Replies: @Alden
    I’m working on 5 grandsons.
    , @Frau Katze
    Come off it. I can’t be the only boomer reading Steve.

    I remember the late 60s and 70s well. I didn’t agree with the radicals then and I dislike them even more today.
    , @Olorin
    You insufferable twit, it was boomers like PJ O'Rourke and Nick Bougas who kept alive the sacred American tradition of ethnic jibing and racist humor.

    Though Bougas is arguably Gen Jones, not boomer, being born in 1955. And O'Rourke is dead to me, having endorsed Clinton. (Gonzo my glutes.)

    It was boomers like RF Laird who wrote the Boomer Bible and skewered the generation incisively. Though RF was an instapunk, so really has no "generation," having always existed outside marketing categories and media memes.

    Stop confusing marketing categories and 1960s media memes with actual people. The "next generation of white boys" never had an independent thought of your own. It was boomer pranksters and Generation Jones punks who fed you all that Chaos Magick stuff that you now frog-hop and kek around thinking you invented.

    Aulder pharts too. RAW was "silent generation," e.g. Plus you owe a lot of what you call "your" thinking to guys born in the late 1800s. See: Evola, Julius.

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  30. WR says:

    Unfortunately, we’re going to need a legion of guys like Pinker to steer the Leviathan in the right direction, and he’s pretty unique.

    I don’t know how unique he is. I admit he is courageous. Probably he has enough money and fame to survive the backlash that will soon come to bite him. If I were to state the same undeniable facts of life in my workplace I would lose my job and would not be able to support my family. Regular guys don’t have the luxury to speak truth to totalitarian leftist power, The left has virtually total control of the entertainment business, media, and academia (i.e. the channels through which folks form their opinions). Moreover, as someone said here not long ago, the powers that be have outsourced punishment of crimethinkers to 24/7 SJWs. They can single you out à la Alinsky (even if you are a nobody) and make your life miserable.

    The only way I see out of this is insane world is to keep exposing young men to the red pill till the dissident right reaches a critical mass (let’s say 3 million people). Then yes, we could declare a “national day of truth” and post the 21st century equivalent of Luther’s 95 theses on our office doors.

    Read More
    • Agree: PV van der Byl
    • Replies: @Kevin C.

    The only way I see out of this is insane world is to keep exposing young men to the red pill till the dissident right reaches a critical mass (let’s say 3 million people). Then yes, we could declare a “national day of truth” and post the 21st century equivalent of Luther’s 95 theses on our office doors.
     
    Except that this whole '"critical mass" of Common People overturn the system' model of revolution is a total myth. Successful revolutions are always about a rival elite or arriviste proto-elite overthrowing the current elite, with the "angry young men" being their mere pawns. Authentic "peasant revolts" are handily crushed by the PTB. And yes, the "dissident right" is entirely devoid of any proto-elite, and is pure "peasant." 3 million, 3 billion, it doesn't matter, there is no "critical mass" which the Elites cannot crush as easily as the armored, mounted knights and lords of the Middle Ages crushed massively larger armies of revolting peasants bearing pitchforks and torches on a semi-regular basis.

    Waking people to the "red pill" truth doesn't, can't, and won't accomplish anything that really matters.
    , @Twodees Partain
    There are no degrees of unique. He's either unique or not.
    , @Redman
    Trudat. I didn’t lose my job, but I was passed over for partnership in my law firm for simply wearing a MAGA hat on the day of the election at a conference in New Orleans.

    This apparently offended a few snowflakes in my firm to the point that I had to be punished. Meanwhile, my clients were all Trump supporters who rejoiced in the unexpected Trump victory.

    Lawyers are the worst about trying to shut down crimespeak. But there’s no denying that the entire culture has dramatically changed among the elites in the Trump era.
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  31. If Pinker straightened his hair, he’d look just like Peter Brimelow.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    Face by Peter Brimelow, hair by (young) Peter Frampton.

    It's the Peter-Pinker Principle.
    , @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    "If Pinker straightened his hair, he’d look just like Peter Brimelow."

    A scientific test of this hypothesis would not be very expensive:
    https://www.walgreens.com/store/c/fantasia-frizz-buster-silky-smooth-hair-straightening-creme/ID=prod2663124-product?reactjs=true
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  32. Hey Steven Pinker, what about the red pill on the Jewish role in forcing open borders and mass immigration on Western nations? *crickets*

    Read More
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  33. Like watching the lion tamer stick his head in the lion’s mouth.

    Read More
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  34. @International Jew
    If Pinker straightened his hair, he'd look just like Peter Brimelow.

    Face by Peter Brimelow, hair by (young) Peter Frampton.

    It’s the Peter-Pinker Principle.

    Read More
    • LOL: MBlanc46
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  35. @International Jew
    If Pinker straightened his hair, he'd look just like Peter Brimelow.

    “If Pinker straightened his hair, he’d look just like Peter Brimelow.”

    A scientific test of this hypothesis would not be very expensive:

    https://www.walgreens.com/store/c/fantasia-frizz-buster-silky-smooth-hair-straightening-creme/ID=prod2663124-product?reactjs=true

    Read More
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  36. AndrewR says:

    Communist subhumans on twitter are freaking tf out about Pinker straying off the rez. Bonus: subhuman with verified account (which, at this point, means twitter-endorsed) calls Steve Sailer a “white supremacist.”

    https://mobile.twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/950784957827440640

    Lol if only

    Read More
    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    Not very happy are they?
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  37. CCZ says:

    So, finally, after 9 years of Obama, 8 in office and 1 year as former-President, Joe Scarborough calls Obama a “glorified state senator.”‘

    Jan 9th 2018

    Joe Scarborough, co-host of MSNBC’s ‘Morning Joe,’ said on Tuesday morning that President Obama was not ready for the high office.

    “There are so many great things personally about Barack Obama, even though so many of his policies drive me crazy,” Scarborough stated. “But Barack Obama wasn’t ready, in my opinion, to be president. He was, as I said, a glorified state senator.”

    Read More
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  38. Could you post a transcript? I can’t get streaming video in my remote central Asian bunker.

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  39. Numinous says:

    If y’all think Pinker was praising you or validating your ideology and preferred policies, you are mistaken.

    He just said “intelligent”, not “right” (or “wrong” for that matter.) Intelligence can be put to a wide range of uses. Many people are understandably frustrated by political correctness in the “regular” world, and so gravitate to the alt-right. But the alt-right is just peddling its own ideology, highly biased, selective, and politically correct in its own way.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    The "alt-right" has two consistent usages: one is pretty much an inferior synonym for Derb's prior and clearer term "dissident right," and one is a somewhat coherent new group within that category. Thus Steve is alt-right in that he is rightish without compatibility with John McCain, but not alt-right at all in the sense that he has nothing to do with this new crop of activist youtube hosts. We could point up "dissident right" to avoid confusion.
    I hate and suspect the term as a mainstream media damn-label for all of us, but admit to having circulated a graphic, a design-savvy nine box grid, originated by Spencer and endorsed by Heartiste over a year ago, because it had no objectionable elements and was a uniquely good light introduction. Each box described major issues that the "dissident right" (in the graphic, "the alt-right") was concerned with but which was undiscussed or dismissed by respectable company.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Many people are understandably frustrated by political correctness in the “regular” world, and so gravitate to the alt-right.
     
    It’s not just about political correctness, anymore than it’s a mere disagreement about manners. What brings people to the alt-right is the increasing physical reality of hostile diversity in all its forms in everyday life. It’s getting to the point where the ‘mainstream’ zeitgeist is revolting to a lot of white ‘normies.’ More and more regular white people are thinking, and increasingly saying: “Go be non-white, or go be a degenerate freak, somewhere else.” Many whites in general are waking up to the fact that it’s a matter of existence and survival:

    https://twitter.com/HarmlessYardDog/status/950106345981841408

    https://twitter.com/HarmlessYardDog/status/950107760745746432
    , @anon
    Intelligence can be put to a wide range of uses. Many people are understandably frustrated by political correctness in the “regular” world, and so gravitate to the alt-right.

    Better to be intelligent and basically right than to be intelligent and completely wrong.
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  40. JimB says:

    The YouRube clip ends before Pinker makes his point. He doesn’t tell us how one goes from learning certain shocking hate-facts to reprllent conclusions.

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  41. Pinker is amazingly Teflon coated. He knows exactly how far he can go in statements, and exactly what to say afterwards to blunt any incipient outrage.

    Steve Sailer, in his UPI days, once interviewed Pinker, with, as you can imagine, some very pointed questions. For instance:

    Q: Your long curly hair has been compared to such 1970s rock stars as Peter Frampton, Roger Daltrey and Robert Plant, but you might look more like the 17th century philosopher Spinoza. Whom do you think you look like?

    A: Then there’s T. Rex singer Marc Bolan, jazz guitarist Pat Metheny, and most often, conductor Simon Rattle. I, personally, would have to answer Bruno, the piano player in the TV show “Fame.”

    https://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2002/10/30/QA-Steven-Pinker-of-Blank-Slate/26021035991232/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Stephen Marle II:

    My quick reading of Steve's 2002 interview convinced me that Pinker was even more principled and quotable then. Not that I wish to denigrate Pinker's current stances since they are about as much as we can expect in our current political climate.

    In other words be grateful for whatever we can get!
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  42. I wonder this is related to the content of Pinker’s upcoming book (which I for one am eagerly awaiting) or if he started thinking about these issues after he finished writing it.

    By the way, between Steven Pinker, Steve Sailer, Scott Alexander and Spotted Toad it seems like quite a few of the very best commentators today have names/pseudonyms beginning with “s”. Reminds me of that “year of Steves” airport bookstore comic that gets brought up on iSteve every so often.

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  43. Whiskey says: • Website

    A comment on Heartiste had this tweet. It concerns a “Meet up” between teenage German girls and “rapefugees” ages 25-35 by their looks, one of whom became the first boyfriend, and then murderer, of a fifteen year old pictured in the group photo.

    That group photo is everything wrong with the West, and pretty much why its collapsing. The attendance of pretty girls in their teens at a meet up for swaggering new conquerors ten years older? High. The attendance of pretty teen girls for boys their own age, let alone nerdy ones? ZERO.

    This is why White Women are the absolute and eternal enemy of the White man. They tolerated the innately beta male White man as long as there was no racial competition and no real welfare state, consumerist media culture, and deeply atomized society. It meant food on the table and provision for their kids. Maybe a good deal more than that. Now? The lowest IQ swaggering a-hole with a long history of goat molestation and little boy buggering is their preferred man.

    The WN likes to White Knight like a tool for White women, making excuses with “the JOOOOOSSSSSS!!!!11!!! did it” instead of putting the cause squarely with the actors. Not that women are blameworthy, few women if any can think, and most would rather just feel. Women and especially smarter ones will just flow to whatever group of man is the most swaggering and personally dominant. This is why you see “together” and “smart” women with some drug addict/musician/bike courier, or the like. Invariably the smarter and prettier the woman, the more she’s likely to have a layabout louse for a boyfriend. Until she gets too old to keep him and he’s onto someone else. This writ large is Western Society — White women HATE HATE HATE White men on the cause of beta male — and are replacing us with foreign Third World goat molestors. Chance of being killed by said molestors is not a turn-off, but rather a turn on. Women would rather chance getting killed by a violent low IQ thug than listen to a beta male pedestalize her and suck up to her.

    TLDR: The red pill is the SAME for both women and society. THE SAME THING is destroying both Western nations and male-female relationships: the pill, condom, atomized society, welfare states, advertising led female dominated consumerism, and critically — foreign male competition that most White women have decided is just better than us.

    The solution is to up the ante, to a point where no foreign male or group of males can ever meet the call.

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  44. S.Ross says: • Website

    Not significant, cf Feynman’s license plate number joke.

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  45. Ivy says:
    @tanabear
    Steven Pinker is attempting to walk the tightrope between revealing these truths and not being condemned for saying them. He tries to get away with this by stating that the Alt-Right ideas are repellent, but he never says exactly why. He still wants to give the impression that the Left, which promotes these lies, are somehow morally superior to the Alt-Right. People hear these ideas for the first time and they become "radicalized" by them says Pinker. That is the idea. If you aren't "radicalized" by knowing the Truth in a society that lives by lies you are an intellectual and moral coward. It is these Truths which make someone immune to the lies from the Left. It is similar to a vaccination, once you are aware of these Truths no amount of lies can ever infect you again.

    "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell

    Spooks and DC people have their Limited Hangouts. Pinker and other academics would fancy up the name, maybe write a grant proposal or two, for a similar function.

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  46. Svigor says:

    Wow. Just wow. Obviously, he is not Alt-Right (sadly), but he can grant that we are not retarded monsters and say it publicly at such a venue. It takes cojones. Let this be a reminder for some alt-righters wo condemn Jews wholesale that so many of them are outstanding people in so many ways. Think Unz, Steven Miller, Jerry Seinfeld, Paul Gottfried, the late Larry Auster, Ilana Mercer… And in France, Zemmour, Finkielkraut, Elizabeth Lévy, Goldnadel… Let’s call Jews out whenever necessary, without fear; but let’s make a constant effort not to be hostile to the many, many upstanding and admirable people among them.

    I heap praise on such Jews. Let that be a reminder to some philo-semites who condemn counter-semites wholesale that many of us are perfectly willing to name Righteous Jews.

    Pinker seems to be openly saying that the facts that the Alt-Right is saying is right, but they’re just taking their conclusions to extremes.

    That’s how negotiation, and moving the Overton Window, work.

    `

    People hear these ideas for the first time and they become “radicalized” by them says Pinker. That is the idea. If you aren’t “radicalized” by knowing the Truth in a society that lives by lies you are an intellectual and moral coward. It is these Truths which make someone immune to the lies from the Left. It is similar to a vaccination, once you are aware of these Truths no amount of lies can ever infect you again.

    Indeed. Well said.

    He just said “intelligent”, not “right” (or “wrong” for that matter.) Intelligence can be put to a wide range of uses. Many people are understandably frustrated by political correctness in the “regular” world, and so gravitate to the alt-right. But the alt-right is just peddling its own ideology, highly biased, selective, and politically correct in its own way.

    Who-whom is everywhere. As far as we’re concerned, better a who-whom that serves our interests, than one that serves yours.

    Read More
    • Replies: @WR
    Well said.
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  47. Dan Hayes says:
    @Stephen Marle II
    Pinker is amazingly Teflon coated. He knows exactly how far he can go in statements, and exactly what to say afterwards to blunt any incipient outrage.

    Steve Sailer, in his UPI days, once interviewed Pinker, with, as you can imagine, some very pointed questions. For instance:

    Q: Your long curly hair has been compared to such 1970s rock stars as Peter Frampton, Roger Daltrey and Robert Plant, but you might look more like the 17th century philosopher Spinoza. Whom do you think you look like?

    A: Then there's T. Rex singer Marc Bolan, jazz guitarist Pat Metheny, and most often, conductor Simon Rattle. I, personally, would have to answer Bruno, the piano player in the TV show "Fame."
     
    https://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2002/10/30/QA-Steven-Pinker-of-Blank-Slate/26021035991232/

    Stephen Marle II:

    My quick reading of Steve’s 2002 interview convinced me that Pinker was even more principled and quotable then. Not that I wish to denigrate Pinker’s current stances since they are about as much as we can expect in our current political climate.

    In other words be grateful for whatever we can get!

    Read More
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  48. anon • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve learned not to like Steven Pinker – he equivocates too much. He errs on the side of reassuring his audience. But he still manages to say the blasphemies out loud and gets away with it, and this is a very helpful role.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux
    I've found that Pinker's The Blank Slate is quite effective at redpilling normies.
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  49. TGGP says: • Website
    @Bill P
    I think the "red pill" meme originated in the manosphere, but I don't know for sure who popularized it. I never really liked it all that much myself, because I thought The Matrix was a ridiculous and totally PC movie, but admittedly as a term it's a pretty good hook for the recently initiated. Also it expresses the fire/ice yang/yin dichotomy, which is sort of enlightening.

    Anyway, Pinker's right as usual. He's kind of interesting in that he's one of the few people who can bring this stuff up in public without being lynched for it. I've got to give Pinker credit for that; he's so intellectually deft that he can say things without really saying them. But still, you've got to wonder whether that doesn't take the edge off his work.

    Unfortunately, we're going to need a legion of guys like Pinker to steer the Leviathan in the right direction, and he's pretty unique. Seems foreboding to me at this point.

    Mencius Moldbug was the first I can recall using it as a metaphor for political incorrectness, although he wasn’t particularly interested in men vs women.

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  50. AndrewR says:
    @Bartolo
    Wow. Just wow. Obviously, he is not Alt-Right (sadly), but he can grant that we are not retarded monsters and say it publicly at such a venue. It takes cojones. Let this be a reminder for some alt-righters wo condemn Jews wholesale that so many of them are outstanding people in so many ways. Think Unz, Steven Miller, Jerry Seinfeld, Paul Gottfried, the late Larry Auster, Ilana Mercer... And in France, Zemmour, Finkielkraut, Elizabeth Lévy, Goldnadel... Let's call Jews out whenever necessary, without fear; but let's make a constant effort not to be hostile to the many, many upstanding and admirable people among them.

    Miller, besides being stereotypically obnoxious, is also a cuck who won’t think twice about unceremoniously throwing people under the bus. Read what he said about Richard Spencer. I get the need to distance oneself from more radical individuals. Obama did it. Bill Clinton did it. It’s politics. But one can distance oneself like a loyal, honorable man, or one can distance oneself like a dishonorable coward, and Miller chose the latter.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Read what he said about Richard Spencer. I get the need to distance oneself from more radical individuals. Obama did it. Bill Clinton did it. It’s politics. But one can distance oneself like a loyal, honorable man, or one can distance oneself like a dishonorable coward, and Miller chose the latter.
     
    Nobody cares about Richard Spencer; he's worthless.
    , @Opinionator
    Oh please. Spencer threw himself under the bus and ever since has been trying to drag as many other people as he can under with him. Spencer seems to be completely lacking in honor. A miserable human being.
    , @Yak-15
    Miller is bright, highly articulate and extremely energetic. I am glad we have him on our side. Spencer is utterly worthless and poisons our brand.

    Why should Miller threaten our gains by embracing odious trolls like Spencer?
    , @Jack Hanson
    Lmao for some one upset about people calling out the idiotic commentary about Trump, you sure get mad when some one points out your daddy Spencer has no clothes.
    , @Redman
    It seems to me that Richard Spencer is exactly the type one would want to distance oneself from. I don’t see Spencer being a significant player in the future.
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  51. @Bleuteaux
    I'm amazed that there are still people who are allowed to verbalize these thoughts at an Ivy league school. I really am. Having gone to a second-rate university where a 30-year tenured professor was fired for a blog post opposing gay marriage. Or take Cornell West's opposition to TAC, moderate criticism of Obama. I assume it cannot be long before every single Harvard professor sounds identical to the worst internet troll out there.

    I’m amazed that there are still people who are allowed to verbalize these thoughts at an Ivy league school.

    Let’s wait and see.

    Steven Pinker, who skates on what SJWs would call thin ice, may yet see his career cratered if he voices some of these sentiments in a high-profile situation. Larry Summers learned that the hard way—being President of Harvard University gave him no protection, and the climate is much worse now than when he was hounded out of office.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Forbes
    Larry Summers' tenure as a full professor remained intact, it's just that he no longer serves as president of the University. You can call the incident shameful or embarrassing, but Harvard lives on with its reputation (however described).
    , @Frau Katze
    He’s tenured so I don’t think they could fire him.

    But he would experience “shunning” by an enormous number of people. Think Watson, etc.

    And both of us are using pseudonyms, like most of the rest of Steve’s readers.

    A few are too afraid to even use a pseudonym and hide as anonymous.

    I criticize none of us for that. Some are worried about work (I’m retired), and being “shunned” is pretty bad.
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  52. WR says:
    @Svigor

    Wow. Just wow. Obviously, he is not Alt-Right (sadly), but he can grant that we are not retarded monsters and say it publicly at such a venue. It takes cojones. Let this be a reminder for some alt-righters wo condemn Jews wholesale that so many of them are outstanding people in so many ways. Think Unz, Steven Miller, Jerry Seinfeld, Paul Gottfried, the late Larry Auster, Ilana Mercer… And in France, Zemmour, Finkielkraut, Elizabeth Lévy, Goldnadel… Let’s call Jews out whenever necessary, without fear; but let’s make a constant effort not to be hostile to the many, many upstanding and admirable people among them.
     
    I heap praise on such Jews. Let that be a reminder to some philo-semites who condemn counter-semites wholesale that many of us are perfectly willing to name Righteous Jews.

    Pinker seems to be openly saying that the facts that the Alt-Right is saying is right, but they’re just taking their conclusions to extremes.
     
    That's how negotiation, and moving the Overton Window, work.

    `

    People hear these ideas for the first time and they become “radicalized” by them says Pinker. That is the idea. If you aren’t “radicalized” by knowing the Truth in a society that lives by lies you are an intellectual and moral coward. It is these Truths which make someone immune to the lies from the Left. It is similar to a vaccination, once you are aware of these Truths no amount of lies can ever infect you again.
     
    Indeed. Well said.

    He just said “intelligent”, not “right” (or “wrong” for that matter.) Intelligence can be put to a wide range of uses. Many people are understandably frustrated by political correctness in the “regular” world, and so gravitate to the alt-right. But the alt-right is just peddling its own ideology, highly biased, selective, and politically correct in its own way.
     
    Who-whom is everywhere. As far as we're concerned, better a who-whom that serves our interests, than one that serves yours.

    Well said.

    Read More
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  53. AndrewR says:
    @Bleuteaux
    I'm amazed that there are still people who are allowed to verbalize these thoughts at an Ivy league school. I really am. Having gone to a second-rate university where a 30-year tenured professor was fired for a blog post opposing gay marriage. Or take Cornell West's opposition to TAC, moderate criticism of Obama. I assume it cannot be long before every single Harvard professor sounds identical to the worst internet troll out there.

    Can you please elaborate on what happened to the professor, or at least provide a citation? Your claim defies credulity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @midtown
    Yes, I am also interested, although it is well within the realm of possibility post Brendan Eich.
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  54. AndrewR says:
    @Dmitry
    The red-pill thing - it's just a cheap peasant-level version of Plato's cave story. Similarly with metaphor about being 'woke'.

    I think that most, or a least a significant proportion of, young people - when they get to about 18, yearn for this kind of 'Plato's cave' experience. And this type of 'forbidden knowledge -> enlightenment' structure is how most ideologies/religions/cults try to present themselves (the most farcical example is probably Scientology). They use this structure because it is an effective way to get new acolytes from this demographic. Note how it appeals to young people's egoism, that they have access to some kind of superior knowledge that their elders/peers/teachers/parents, etc, lack, or are not brave/honest enough to face.

    Which particular ideology these young people fall for, is a bit like old-fashioned marriage market, where the first suitor is the most likely to get the bride. In the case of college students, whether this be hippy counter-culture, Marxism, the alt-left or the alt-right (the Nazi movement in 1920s Germany took off on college campuses in Germany) - or whatever is the newest fad - in some sense seems arbitrary. It is not unheard of in the United States for impressionable youngsters attracted to the alt-left to become alt-right, and vice-versa, within the space of a year or less. (I read recently that the guy who writes Daily Stormer website was at first a far-left vegetarian, before he sensed the currents were changing).

    The interesting point that Pinker makes, is that the entry for getting acolytes is through presenting certain truths that are not addressed by current society, or current polite society. This is indeed how ideologies operate or manage to recruit - it's why Marxism was particularly successful in recruiting Western college students raised in bourgeois homes, in which the unpleasant reality of inequality, or the source of their wealth, is allegedly not discussed, or is rationalized by 'false consciousness'. Likewise with sexual liberation movements, feminism (which still attracts a lot of young women), and so on.

    The tragedy - aside from the political implications of all these various ideological movements of the far-left, far-right, or even nowadays the center-left - is that young people are sucked into them at just the time they should be focusing on their career, or on real objective and open-minded study of maths/science/languages.

    At the same time, they are useful in showing us what kind of idiotically obvious things our society refuses to tackle - and I think this is what Pinker is finding interesting.

    In the case of the United States, it's not just that the list of these obvious truths is getting longer and longer (to the extent, that even a sensible immigration policy is 'verboten'). But also that the mainstream center-left has itself been taken over by cult ideologies.

    It's why 'Sweden bashing' has become no longer the province of this extremist fringe, and even Westernizing Russian liberals have to spend time apologizing for the radicalism of the Western left, before they have any chance to sell their point of view to common sense people.

    Westernizing Russian liberals have to spend time apologizing for the radicalism of the Western left, before they have any chance to sell their point of view to common sense people.

    This makes intuitive sense, but do you actually know this for a fact? Are you actually familiar with the rhetoric used by “Westernizing Russian liberals”? If so, how?

    Sorry to grill you, but the rhetoric of “Westernizing Russian liberals” seems like a very obscure and improbable thing for an American to be familiar with, and you present your claims without describing how you supposedly came upon this knowledge, so one is left with many questions.

    Edit: ok now I saw your name lol… I guess you probably left Russia as a child, given that your English skills probably exceed all living Dmitrys.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Sorry to grill you, but the rhetoric of “Westernizing Russian liberals” seems like a very obscure and improbable thing for an American to be familiar with, and you present your claims without describing how you supposedly came upon this knowledge, so one is left with many questions.

     

    In my own views - I am (or, rather, was) very sympathetic to the Western model, and above all the American model.

    So it is sad for me - and for this reason not only as someone who lives in the West - to see the mainstream thinking in the occidental world being taken over by ideological cults (e.g. editorial positions of newspapers like the Washington Post and the New York Times appearing to be directed according to the latest trends in intersectional progressivism).

    It is something like the realization that Santa Claus does not exist (or even worse, that he used to exist, until his own family killed him).

    Liberals and Westernisers in Russia encompass a wide range of viewpoints. But certainly almost all these viewpoints have been critically undermined by the revelation that 'Santa Claus doesn't exist'.

    For an example translated into English of people experiencing this - please read at how Yulia Latynina reacted to the Obama administration's appeasement of the 'Arab spring' phenomenon:
    https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/tougher-response-to-islamic-terrorism-is-needed-17876

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  55. syonredux says:
    @whorefinder

    I think the “red pill” meme originated in the manosphere, but I don’t know for sure who popularized it. I never really liked it all that much myself, because I thought The Matrix was a ridiculous and totally PC movie, but admittedly as a term it’s a pretty good hook for the recently initiated. Also it expresses the fire/ice yang/yin dichotomy, which is sort of enlightening.
     
    The Matrix was pretty ridiculous, and for me very trite and predictable. "The world is all a meaningless illusion, the reality is we're all slaves, we need to revolt!" is a science fiction/ Marxist trope that I've seen before and instantly recognized (note that Cornell West had a speaking role in these films).

    Of course, being leftists, the Wachowskis messed up the payoff. The payoff should have been that all three Matrix movies themselves were all controlled/setup by the Matrix, a sort of Inception-like ending where Neo realizes that everything he's done is really part of the same computer simulation. This was hinted at at various points, but the Wachowski's shied away from it, muddling the ending.

    This is like how Fight Club was a fairly predictable movie, where it was fairly easy to guess that the Narrator and Tyler Durden were the same dude, thus the twist didn't work. The theme of anti-consumerism and male physicality and destruction was also fairly trite. About the only original part was the narrator blowing out his own brain to silence Tyler.

    However, Matrix and Fight Club were original to a whole generation of young men, who were young and impressionable and naive when they saw them and hadn't seen what they were derivative of, and if you aren't steeped in Marxist nonsense they do have alternative interpretations about truth and masculinity that work well with Alt-Right truths.

    In any event, the Left is pretty pissed that what they thought was an equaltarian-SJW-Marxist-trope has been turned against them.

    The Matrix was pretty ridiculous, and for me very trite and predictable. “The world is all a meaningless illusion, the reality is we’re all slaves, we need to revolt!” is a science fiction/ Marxist trope that I’ve seen before and instantly recognized

    They were doing a pretty obvious riff on Plato’s allegory of the cave. It was reasonably effective, at least compared to the sequels, where they tried to bring German philosophy to the big screen. I suppose that Plato is inherently more cinematic than Hegel and Co.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    If you really want to get detailed, I would loosely estimate that, far from going straight to Plato, the Matrix is clearly "benefitting" from something like a seventh of all science fiction. There is nothing unique or visionary at all about reality being a noble lie and rebellion being the human destiny. There was a major bestseller in the thirties I think with a title like "The Sinister [noun]," it actually had several reprintings and wide influence, and it is pretty much The Matrix adjusted for 1930s tech and tastes.
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  56. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Numinous
    If y'all think Pinker was praising you or validating your ideology and preferred policies, you are mistaken.

    He just said "intelligent", not "right" (or "wrong" for that matter.) Intelligence can be put to a wide range of uses. Many people are understandably frustrated by political correctness in the "regular" world, and so gravitate to the alt-right. But the alt-right is just peddling its own ideology, highly biased, selective, and politically correct in its own way.

    The “alt-right” has two consistent usages: one is pretty much an inferior synonym for Derb’s prior and clearer term “dissident right,” and one is a somewhat coherent new group within that category. Thus Steve is alt-right in that he is rightish without compatibility with John McCain, but not alt-right at all in the sense that he has nothing to do with this new crop of activist youtube hosts. We could point up “dissident right” to avoid confusion.
    I hate and suspect the term as a mainstream media damn-label for all of us, but admit to having circulated a graphic, a design-savvy nine box grid, originated by Spencer and endorsed by Heartiste over a year ago, because it had no objectionable elements and was a uniquely good light introduction. Each box described major issues that the “dissident right” (in the graphic, “the alt-right”) was concerned with but which was undiscussed or dismissed by respectable company.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Peter Johnson
    Following Sailer's general approach, I think much of the alt-right should call itself "HBD-aware." For much (not all) alt-right thinkers, awareness of human biodiversity is the key insight above all others.

    The opposite of HBD-aware is HBD-ignorant which is a difficult position to defend. So it works.

    Calling the HBD-awareness movement "alt-right" puts it on the right-left political spectrum, which is the wrong approach.

    We could use more politically left-wing HBD-aware thinkers. Linh Dinh would be an example of one.
    , @Pericles
    Have you accepted Pepe in your heart yet?
    , @Chrisnonymous
    I believe Spencer started his "alt right" website, from whence the name, before Derb's defenestration from NR, so I doubt "Dissident Right" pre-dates "alt right" (but I might be wrong).

    Confusion over what the term means derives from its origin. Spencer was doing a "unite the right" schtick a long time ago. His website was big-tent-right-wing and combined WN types with non-WN types. No real coalition developed, but the term continued in its non-specificity.
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  57. syonredux says:
    @anon
    I've learned not to like Steven Pinker - he equivocates too much. He errs on the side of reassuring his audience. But he still manages to say the blasphemies out loud and gets away with it, and this is a very helpful role.

    I’ve found that Pinker’s The Blank Slate is quite effective at redpilling normies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Yes. If it were just a science book, it wouldn't work as well, but its Communist cabal cover-up plotline makes everything more interesting.
    , @Forbes
    I didn't read it for the longest time because I thought Pinker was endorsing the Blank Slate, as opposed to debunking it...
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  58. AndrewR says:
    @Moses
    Pinker makes an important point, namely, that refusal to recognize or discuss, say, intrinsic sex differences, is pushing some people to question the entire narrative.

    He suggests that the left should recognize such differences while pushing its point of view that (undeniable) intrinsic gender or racial differences can be consistent with lefty PC & multikult beliefs

    He doesn't really address the elephant in the room, which is that given recognition of intrinsic differences the alt-right has an incredibly powerful argument which leads to its conclusions in the same way water flows down a hill.

    I suspect that if non-PC facts were acceptable to discuss in polite company then many (most?) people would arrive at similar alt-right conclusions about gender and race. That's what happened to me. I used to be 100% cuck before I started paying attention to patterns.

    My own journey reminds me of the Thomas Jefferson quote: "We are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead..." Well, the truth leads inexorably to conclusions abhorrent to the left. That's why they'll never allow frank and open discussion of facts they don't like. You saw it in Google's reaction to Damore's memo.

    The left will never be reasonable. They will double down and oppress until they can't.

    Indeed. To refine your last line: ideologues will resort to any means necessary to silence dissent and ensure total conformity. History shows us that it’s not just a “leftist” thing, although, certainly in the US in 2018, leftists are the reigning hegemons.

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  59. Puremania says:

    Professor Pinker is absolutely right about the shock effect, and consequent political snap, that results from learning taboo Hatefacts like the ones he describes.
    In my case, it was the discovery, over 30 years ago, that world hunger was decreasing, contrary to conventional wisdom. Basically the same crucible that Julian Simon and Bjorn Lomborg went through, though I hadn’t come across any writing like that at the time. This emerged from my simple hobby of perusing data from the UN-FAO, CIA Factbook, and other sources. To go against the grain and learn about scientists like Norman Borlaug, after having been marinated in Paul Erlich-type alarmism at school and in the mass media, was to feel bitterly betrayed.
    I slammed the door on the Chicken Little Left and their destructive socialist nostrums. I came to feel that fashionable “progressives” were just unserious people.
    It’s been a gauntlet of what Pinker here calls uncontroversial truths. The one that brought me here, 15 years ago, was Steve’s Cousin Marriage Conundrum. But yea, that first BadTruth, it’ll rock your world and alter your political DNA.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    For me the clincher was when I read a first-rate history of the Industrial Revolution in which were presented tables comparing the standards of living, longevity and the like for periods a hundred years before, during and after. Marx was quite simply wrong. The lives of the mass proletariate improved consistently in every category, paralleling developments in techniques of mass production and gains in theoretical knowledge of physics and chemistry. Humanity was not immiserated by technology.
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  60. J.Ross says: • Website
    @syonredux

    The Matrix was pretty ridiculous, and for me very trite and predictable. “The world is all a meaningless illusion, the reality is we’re all slaves, we need to revolt!” is a science fiction/ Marxist trope that I’ve seen before and instantly recognized
     
    They were doing a pretty obvious riff on Plato's allegory of the cave. It was reasonably effective, at least compared to the sequels, where they tried to bring German philosophy to the big screen. I suppose that Plato is inherently more cinematic than Hegel and Co.

    If you really want to get detailed, I would loosely estimate that, far from going straight to Plato, the Matrix is clearly “benefitting” from something like a seventh of all science fiction. There is nothing unique or visionary at all about reality being a noble lie and rebellion being the human destiny. There was a major bestseller in the thirties I think with a title like “The Sinister [noun],” it actually had several reprintings and wide influence, and it is pretty much The Matrix adjusted for 1930s tech and tastes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    There was a major bestseller in the thirties I think with a title like “The Sinister [noun],” it actually had several reprintings and wide influence, and it is pretty much The Matrix adjusted for 1930s tech and tastes.
     
    You mean Eric Frank Russell's Fortean ( " I think we're property" ) Sinister Barrier? It does have a similar central conceit (in Sinister Barrier, invisible alien creatures feed on human emotion and kill anyone who gets wise). Maybe they did read it. It's a pretty terrible book, though. I tried to read it when I was a teen, and gave up after about 25 pages.
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  61. AndrewR says:
    @a reader
    Steve, you got a secret reader 10 Downing Street, and at Cornell as well.

    Narcissism isn’t exactly an obscure concept, and David Cameron got to know Barack Obama as well as any world leader did, so there’s no reason to think Cameron couldn’t have independently concluded Obama is a narcissist.

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  62. Mr. Anon says:
    @Bill P
    I think the "red pill" meme originated in the manosphere, but I don't know for sure who popularized it. I never really liked it all that much myself, because I thought The Matrix was a ridiculous and totally PC movie, but admittedly as a term it's a pretty good hook for the recently initiated. Also it expresses the fire/ice yang/yin dichotomy, which is sort of enlightening.

    Anyway, Pinker's right as usual. He's kind of interesting in that he's one of the few people who can bring this stuff up in public without being lynched for it. I've got to give Pinker credit for that; he's so intellectually deft that he can say things without really saying them. But still, you've got to wonder whether that doesn't take the edge off his work.

    Unfortunately, we're going to need a legion of guys like Pinker to steer the Leviathan in the right direction, and he's pretty unique. Seems foreboding to me at this point.

    Unfortunately, we’re going to need a legion of guys like Pinker to steer the Leviathan in the right direction, and he’s pretty unique. Seems foreboding to me at this point.

    I agree. Pinker is a smart and honorable guy – an old fashioned academic who actually believes in the truth, and just as important, believes that the truth is a good in itself. But there aren’t many like him, and even Pinker will eventually retire and be replaced by some SJW commissar. The search committe won’t make the mistake of hiring somebody like him.

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  63. syonredux says:
    @J.Ross
    If you really want to get detailed, I would loosely estimate that, far from going straight to Plato, the Matrix is clearly "benefitting" from something like a seventh of all science fiction. There is nothing unique or visionary at all about reality being a noble lie and rebellion being the human destiny. There was a major bestseller in the thirties I think with a title like "The Sinister [noun]," it actually had several reprintings and wide influence, and it is pretty much The Matrix adjusted for 1930s tech and tastes.

    There was a major bestseller in the thirties I think with a title like “The Sinister [noun],” it actually had several reprintings and wide influence, and it is pretty much The Matrix adjusted for 1930s tech and tastes.

    You mean Eric Frank Russell’s Fortean ( ” I think we’re property” ) Sinister Barrier? It does have a similar central conceit (in Sinister Barrier, invisible alien creatures feed on human emotion and kill anyone who gets wise). Maybe they did read it. It’s a pretty terrible book, though. I tried to read it when I was a teen, and gave up after about 25 pages.

    Read More
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  64. @Numinous
    If y'all think Pinker was praising you or validating your ideology and preferred policies, you are mistaken.

    He just said "intelligent", not "right" (or "wrong" for that matter.) Intelligence can be put to a wide range of uses. Many people are understandably frustrated by political correctness in the "regular" world, and so gravitate to the alt-right. But the alt-right is just peddling its own ideology, highly biased, selective, and politically correct in its own way.

    Many people are understandably frustrated by political correctness in the “regular” world, and so gravitate to the alt-right.

    It’s not just about political correctness, anymore than it’s a mere disagreement about manners. What brings people to the alt-right is the increasing physical reality of hostile diversity in all its forms in everyday life. It’s getting to the point where the ‘mainstream’ zeitgeist is revolting to a lot of white ‘normies.’ More and more regular white people are thinking, and increasingly saying: “Go be non-white, or go be a degenerate freak, somewhere else.” Many whites in general are waking up to the fact that it’s a matter of existence and survival:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kevin C.

    It’s getting to the point where the ‘mainstream’ zeitgeist is revolting to a lot of white ‘normies.’ More and more regular white people are thinking, and increasingly saying: “Go be non-white, or go be a degenerate freak, somewhere else.” Many whites in general are waking up to the fact that it’s a matter of existence and survival:
     
    So what? So what if more and more "whites in general are waking up"? Simply being aware of a problem does not constitute a solution, and is meaningless if those who have become aware have no solution within their reach. Because it doesn't matter how much us "regular white people" find the zeitgeist revolting and want the degenerate freaks and hostile foreign cultures to go elsewhere, there's nothing we can do about it.
    , @3g4me
    @63 Jennifer Ickham Errican: "More and more regular white people are thinking, and increasingly saying: “Go be non-white, or go be a degenerate freak, somewhere else.” Many whites in general are waking up to the fact that it’s a matter of existence and survival"

    In the event you may be unaware, Numinous is a Pajeet and his concerns and values do not include a future for White children.
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  65. Mr. Anon says:
    @whorefinder

    I think the “red pill” meme originated in the manosphere, but I don’t know for sure who popularized it. I never really liked it all that much myself, because I thought The Matrix was a ridiculous and totally PC movie, but admittedly as a term it’s a pretty good hook for the recently initiated. Also it expresses the fire/ice yang/yin dichotomy, which is sort of enlightening.
     
    The Matrix was pretty ridiculous, and for me very trite and predictable. "The world is all a meaningless illusion, the reality is we're all slaves, we need to revolt!" is a science fiction/ Marxist trope that I've seen before and instantly recognized (note that Cornell West had a speaking role in these films).

    Of course, being leftists, the Wachowskis messed up the payoff. The payoff should have been that all three Matrix movies themselves were all controlled/setup by the Matrix, a sort of Inception-like ending where Neo realizes that everything he's done is really part of the same computer simulation. This was hinted at at various points, but the Wachowski's shied away from it, muddling the ending.

    This is like how Fight Club was a fairly predictable movie, where it was fairly easy to guess that the Narrator and Tyler Durden were the same dude, thus the twist didn't work. The theme of anti-consumerism and male physicality and destruction was also fairly trite. About the only original part was the narrator blowing out his own brain to silence Tyler.

    However, Matrix and Fight Club were original to a whole generation of young men, who were young and impressionable and naive when they saw them and hadn't seen what they were derivative of, and if you aren't steeped in Marxist nonsense they do have alternative interpretations about truth and masculinity that work well with Alt-Right truths.

    In any event, the Left is pretty pissed that what they thought was an equaltarian-SJW-Marxist-trope has been turned against them.

    I agree about The Matrix – it was crap of a kind that seemed designed to appeal to the Dylan Klebolds of the world. Even leaving aside the ridiculous McGuffin – of humans being used as batteries. I heard that it was largely ripped off from a Hong Kong movie or an anime or something. I don’t know. In any event, I found the whole thing to be repellant and loathsome, as one would expect from a couple of degenerate weirdos like the Wachowski “sisters”.

    However, I found Fight Club to be pretty good. I didn’t see a bunch of warmed over marxism in it, rather I noticed themes that would become common in the manosphere – men being tamed, neutered, robbed of their masculinity by a society that valued them only as compliant, docile consumers. Rather than seeing it as left-wing, I experienced it as being rather conservative, if only in a naive sort of way. Although I’m a boomer, I got it, however the movie really seemed to resonate with Gen Xers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    However, I found Fight Club to be pretty good. I didn’t see a bunch of warmed over marxism in it, rather I noticed themes that would become common in the manosphere – men being tamed, neutered, robbed of their masculinity by a society that valued them only as compliant, docile consumers. Rather than seeing it as left-wing, I experienced it as being rather conservative, if only in a naive sort of way. Although I’m a boomer, I got it, however the movie really seemed to resonate with Gen Xers.
     
    The problem that I always had with Fight Club was its vaguely Gay sub-text. Needless to say, I wasn't surprised when I learned that Chuck Palahniuk (the author of the novel upon which the film was based) is Gay:

    Palahniuk came out as gay after an interview with Karen Valby, a reporter for Entertainment Weekly. Believing that he would be "outed" by Valby after confidentially referring to his male partner he openly declared his homosexuality on his website.[42]

    Palahniuk is now openly gay and, according to an interview with The Advocate in May 2008, he and his unnamed male partner live in a former church compound outside Vancouver, Washington.[43][44] He and his partner have been together for over 20 years, having met while Palahniuk was working at Freightliner. He told one interviewer, "We both had these very blue-collar lives, and now our lives are completely different."[45][46]

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Palahniuk#Personal_life
    , @whorefinder
    Like I said, the Wachowski brothers (and they are brothers, you can't change genders) missed a golden opportunity to create one of the greatest trilogies of all time when they didn't show in the end that Neo's entire experience was itself inside the Matrix, and was merely the Matrix's way of allowing the rebellion naturally present in humans to come out and be identified and come to a conclusion that would satisfy the human mind. The triteness of Neo literally being "prophesied" as "The One" and the speech by the old white computer simulation in the second one would have been paid off infinitely better by such a revelation. It would have made it darker, to be sure, but would have made everything make so much more sense.
    , @Alden
    I loved Fight Club, White men being real men.
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  66. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    A more complete version of his talk that is not cut-off mid way:

    Read More
    • Agree: jim jones
    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
    He's vomiting disingenuity.
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  67. Rob Lee says:

    Regarding the symbolic pill that covers a horrid reality with a pleasant surface, browse “How Howie Made it in the Real World,” a 70′s comic by Richard Corben. You can find it pretty easily. It’s quite a dark comic, just a few pages long, but illustrates how authoritarians provide the drugs to make you see what they want you to see, and the consequences of denying oneself that illusion. Corben was a pretty good illustrator.

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  68. Mr. Anon says:
    @nebulafox
    It's also important to really point out how bankrupt the GOP is, in the context of American politics specifically. Considering that the "mainstream right", the "acceptable" right in the eyes of the media, includes major figures who advocate pre-emptively nuking Iran and treating Israel, a foreign nation, like the 51st state, view crony-capitalism as a desirable end result for America with billionaires taking on demigod status, are profoundly suspicious of science and seem to rejoice in the idea of uneducated Americans, and actively try to prevent Africans (and, indeed, poor Americans) from getting birth control, I'd really question whether the alt-righters are the nutty ones here, as far as national interests are concerned.

    About the one thing everybody here seems to have in common is a distaste for Conservatism Inc, for one reason or another.

    “………….are profoundly suspicious of science and seem to rejoice in the idea of uneducated Americans,……..”

    I don’t think they are “profoundly” suspicious of science. Perhaps they are just suspicious of some scientists. There is sometimes good reason to be. And I don’t think they welcome “uneducated” Americans, so much as they don’t welcome miseducated Americans.

    Other than that, I mostly agree with what you wrote. And you are right – the GOP was (still is) almost worthless. Trump won the Republican nomination largely by running against the Republican party.

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  69. syonredux says:
    @Mr. Anon
    I agree about The Matrix - it was crap of a kind that seemed designed to appeal to the Dylan Klebolds of the world. Even leaving aside the ridiculous McGuffin - of humans being used as batteries. I heard that it was largely ripped off from a Hong Kong movie or an anime or something. I don't know. In any event, I found the whole thing to be repellant and loathsome, as one would expect from a couple of degenerate weirdos like the Wachowski "sisters".

    However, I found Fight Club to be pretty good. I didn't see a bunch of warmed over marxism in it, rather I noticed themes that would become common in the manosphere - men being tamed, neutered, robbed of their masculinity by a society that valued them only as compliant, docile consumers. Rather than seeing it as left-wing, I experienced it as being rather conservative, if only in a naive sort of way. Although I'm a boomer, I got it, however the movie really seemed to resonate with Gen Xers.

    However, I found Fight Club to be pretty good. I didn’t see a bunch of warmed over marxism in it, rather I noticed themes that would become common in the manosphere – men being tamed, neutered, robbed of their masculinity by a society that valued them only as compliant, docile consumers. Rather than seeing it as left-wing, I experienced it as being rather conservative, if only in a naive sort of way. Although I’m a boomer, I got it, however the movie really seemed to resonate with Gen Xers.

    The problem that I always had with Fight Club was its vaguely Gay sub-text. Needless to say, I wasn’t surprised when I learned that Chuck Palahniuk (the author of the novel upon which the film was based) is Gay:

    Palahniuk came out as gay after an interview with Karen Valby, a reporter for Entertainment Weekly. Believing that he would be “outed” by Valby after confidentially referring to his male partner he openly declared his homosexuality on his website.[42]

    Palahniuk is now openly gay and, according to an interview with The Advocate in May 2008, he and his unnamed male partner live in a former church compound outside Vancouver, Washington.[43][44] He and his partner have been together for over 20 years, having met while Palahniuk was working at Freightliner. He told one interviewer, “We both had these very blue-collar lives, and now our lives are completely different.”[45][46]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Palahniuk#Personal_life

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    The problem that I always had with Fight Club was its vaguely Gay sub-text.
     
    Why, next you'll be telling me that Top Gun had a vaguely gay sub-text!

    Yes, there was that thread in Fight Club. It didn't strike me when I first saw it, although in retrospect it's more obvious, especially given that Palahniuk is homosexual.
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  70. whorefinder says: • Website
    @Mr. Anon
    I agree about The Matrix - it was crap of a kind that seemed designed to appeal to the Dylan Klebolds of the world. Even leaving aside the ridiculous McGuffin - of humans being used as batteries. I heard that it was largely ripped off from a Hong Kong movie or an anime or something. I don't know. In any event, I found the whole thing to be repellant and loathsome, as one would expect from a couple of degenerate weirdos like the Wachowski "sisters".

    However, I found Fight Club to be pretty good. I didn't see a bunch of warmed over marxism in it, rather I noticed themes that would become common in the manosphere - men being tamed, neutered, robbed of their masculinity by a society that valued them only as compliant, docile consumers. Rather than seeing it as left-wing, I experienced it as being rather conservative, if only in a naive sort of way. Although I'm a boomer, I got it, however the movie really seemed to resonate with Gen Xers.

    Like I said, the Wachowski brothers (and they are brothers, you can’t change genders) missed a golden opportunity to create one of the greatest trilogies of all time when they didn’t show in the end that Neo’s entire experience was itself inside the Matrix, and was merely the Matrix‘s way of allowing the rebellion naturally present in humans to come out and be identified and come to a conclusion that would satisfy the human mind. The triteness of Neo literally being “prophesied” as “The One” and the speech by the old white computer simulation in the second one would have been paid off infinitely better by such a revelation. It would have made it darker, to be sure, but would have made everything make so much more sense.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Like I said, the Wachowski brothers (and they are brothers, you can’t change genders) missed a golden opportunity to create one of the greatest trilogies of all time when they didn’t show in the end that Neo’s entire experience was itself inside the Matrix, and was merely the Matrix‘s way of allowing the rebellion naturally present in humans to come out and be identified and come to a conclusion that would satisfy the human mind. The triteness of Neo literally being “prophesied” as “The One” and the speech by the old white computer simulation in the second one would have been paid off infinitely better by such a revelation.
     
    That wouldn't exactly have been a revelation, though, since the architect laid all that out for Neo in the second film. It would simply have been confirmation. Resistance is futile, etc. That would have been a solid '70s ending.

    Frankly, they should have made a duology, not a trilogy.Those action scenes in the last two films got really boring really quickly.....
    , @Mr. Anon

    Like I said, the Wachowski brothers (and they are brothers, you can’t change genders)
     
    Actually, there is no such thing as "gender" in a biological sense. The proper term is "sex": it is a biological category, it is real, and - as you say - you can't change it. "Gender" is a social construct pushed by the PoMo left.
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  71. Alden says:
    @anonymouslee
    we don't need boomers like pinker; boomers are a lost cause.

    what we--the people who created the alt right to clean up the mess left by boomers--need is the *next* generation of white boys. and we are getting them.

    I’m working on 5 grandsons.

    Read More
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  72. Alden says:
    @Mr. Anon
    I agree about The Matrix - it was crap of a kind that seemed designed to appeal to the Dylan Klebolds of the world. Even leaving aside the ridiculous McGuffin - of humans being used as batteries. I heard that it was largely ripped off from a Hong Kong movie or an anime or something. I don't know. In any event, I found the whole thing to be repellant and loathsome, as one would expect from a couple of degenerate weirdos like the Wachowski "sisters".

    However, I found Fight Club to be pretty good. I didn't see a bunch of warmed over marxism in it, rather I noticed themes that would become common in the manosphere - men being tamed, neutered, robbed of their masculinity by a society that valued them only as compliant, docile consumers. Rather than seeing it as left-wing, I experienced it as being rather conservative, if only in a naive sort of way. Although I'm a boomer, I got it, however the movie really seemed to resonate with Gen Xers.

    I loved Fight Club, White men being real men.

    Read More
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  73. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @whorefinder

    I think the “red pill” meme originated in the manosphere, but I don’t know for sure who popularized it. I never really liked it all that much myself, because I thought The Matrix was a ridiculous and totally PC movie, but admittedly as a term it’s a pretty good hook for the recently initiated. Also it expresses the fire/ice yang/yin dichotomy, which is sort of enlightening.
     
    The Matrix was pretty ridiculous, and for me very trite and predictable. "The world is all a meaningless illusion, the reality is we're all slaves, we need to revolt!" is a science fiction/ Marxist trope that I've seen before and instantly recognized (note that Cornell West had a speaking role in these films).

    Of course, being leftists, the Wachowskis messed up the payoff. The payoff should have been that all three Matrix movies themselves were all controlled/setup by the Matrix, a sort of Inception-like ending where Neo realizes that everything he's done is really part of the same computer simulation. This was hinted at at various points, but the Wachowski's shied away from it, muddling the ending.

    This is like how Fight Club was a fairly predictable movie, where it was fairly easy to guess that the Narrator and Tyler Durden were the same dude, thus the twist didn't work. The theme of anti-consumerism and male physicality and destruction was also fairly trite. About the only original part was the narrator blowing out his own brain to silence Tyler.

    However, Matrix and Fight Club were original to a whole generation of young men, who were young and impressionable and naive when they saw them and hadn't seen what they were derivative of, and if you aren't steeped in Marxist nonsense they do have alternative interpretations about truth and masculinity that work well with Alt-Right truths.

    In any event, the Left is pretty pissed that what they thought was an equaltarian-SJW-Marxist-trope has been turned against them.

    The Matrix was pretty ridiculous, and for me very trite and predictable.

    Do trite movies generally inspire books by philosophers? The humans-as-batteries motivation was weak, but the (original) Matrix was innovative, entertaining, commercially successful, and hugely influential. And as commercial movies go, it was practically highbrow. I saw it a theater sitting in front of NAMs who, judging by their comments, were frequently confused by it.

    It’s tough to look back objectively on movies that are as influential as the Matrix, because they seem cliched in hindsight, but that hindsight isn’t accurate. Greatness and originality become cliche with time and repetition. A friend who liked Heat emailed me recently and said he’d watched Michael Mann’s ’80s Hannibal pic Manhunter and thought it was terrible. I disagreed, but could see the problem. It basically launched the profiler genre, one that’s been beaten to death. So, seen through the lens of all that came after, it seems cliched. But viewed on its own merits it’s great.

    This is like how Fight Club was a fairly predictable movie, where it was fairly easy to guess that the Narrator and Tyler Durden were the same dude…

    It wasn’t that easy to guess, first time around, but even if you had guessed it, did you guess how Fight Club would morph into Project Mayhem, or the climax? Probably not.

    However, Matrix and Fight Club were original to a whole generation of young men, who were young and impressionable and naive when they saw them and hadn’t seen what they were derivative of

    They seemed original because they were. Being influenced by prior art doesn’t change that. It’s hard to think of a prior movie offhand that included all of the themes Fight Club did.

    Read More
    • Replies: @whorefinder

    Do trite movies generally inspire books by philosophers?
     
    Great argument. "It's brilliant because this guy says it was brilliant, because he wrote a book trying to piggyback on its fame to sell more!"

    Appeal to authority much?

    It’s tough to look back objectively on movies that are as influential as the Matrix, because they seem cliched in hindsight, but that hindsight isn’t accurate. Greatness and originality become cliche with time and repetition. A friend who liked Heat emailed me recently and said he’d watched Michael Mann’s ’80s Hannibal pic Manhunter and thought it was terrible. I disagreed, but could see the problem. It basically launched the profiler genre, one that’s been beaten to death. So, seen through the lens of all that came after, it seems cliched. But viewed on its own merits it’s great.
     
    Buddy, I saw it in theaters and said at the time it was well-made but predictable and trite. The only "innovative" part was the special effects, such as the famous done-to-death slow-mo-360-camera bullet scene. But special effects being innovative doesn't make the film itself innovative. That would make Avatar innovative, which it was not; it was just Pocahontas in Space with some really good computer animation.


    It wasn’t that easy to guess, first time around, but even if you had guessed it, did you guess how Fight Club would morph into Project Mayhem, or the climax? Probably not.
     
    It was very easy to guess the identity, and yes, the idea that he was building an army was predictable as well. Every movie that begins with assembling a group of disparate men and violently whipping them into shape ends with a mission to either steal something or attack something . Since Tyler was clearly a nut and they weren't exactly the high-tech/fine diamond connoisseurs,, it wasn't going to be a mission to re-enact The Thomas Crown Affair.


    They seemed original because they were. Being influenced by prior art doesn’t change that. It’s hard to think of a prior movie offhand that included all of the themes Fight Clubdid.
     
    Dear goodness you're sounding daft. There was nothing original about them beyond cosmetics. Everything was (sadly) predictable about them, beyond the narrator shooting himself to kill of Tyler and a few special effects. Merely because they were entertaining, well-done, rewatchable derivatives doesn't mean they weren't predictable derivatives. lots of people watch It's a Wonderful Life every year, but that doesn't make it less predictable to them.
    , @Cloudbuster
    Do trite movies generally inspire books by philosophers?

    Yes. There are philosophical works about Scooby Doo and Gilligan's Island.

    I see no correlation between

    A. Level of triteness.
    and
    B. Has inspired a work of philosophy.
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  74. syonredux says:
    @whorefinder
    Like I said, the Wachowski brothers (and they are brothers, you can't change genders) missed a golden opportunity to create one of the greatest trilogies of all time when they didn't show in the end that Neo's entire experience was itself inside the Matrix, and was merely the Matrix's way of allowing the rebellion naturally present in humans to come out and be identified and come to a conclusion that would satisfy the human mind. The triteness of Neo literally being "prophesied" as "The One" and the speech by the old white computer simulation in the second one would have been paid off infinitely better by such a revelation. It would have made it darker, to be sure, but would have made everything make so much more sense.

    Like I said, the Wachowski brothers (and they are brothers, you can’t change genders) missed a golden opportunity to create one of the greatest trilogies of all time when they didn’t show in the end that Neo’s entire experience was itself inside the Matrix, and was merely the Matrix‘s way of allowing the rebellion naturally present in humans to come out and be identified and come to a conclusion that would satisfy the human mind. The triteness of Neo literally being “prophesied” as “The One” and the speech by the old white computer simulation in the second one would have been paid off infinitely better by such a revelation.

    That wouldn’t exactly have been a revelation, though, since the architect laid all that out for Neo in the second film. It would simply have been confirmation. Resistance is futile, etc. That would have been a solid ’70s ending.

    Frankly, they should have made a duology, not a trilogy.Those action scenes in the last two films got really boring really quickly…..

    Read More
    • Replies: @whorefinder

    That wouldn’t exactly have been a revelation, though, since the architect laid all that out for Neo in the second film
     
    Would have been for the audience, most of whom thought Neo was The One and was "breaking" free of the Matrix's chains.
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  75. whorefinder says: • Website
    @syonredux

    Like I said, the Wachowski brothers (and they are brothers, you can’t change genders) missed a golden opportunity to create one of the greatest trilogies of all time when they didn’t show in the end that Neo’s entire experience was itself inside the Matrix, and was merely the Matrix‘s way of allowing the rebellion naturally present in humans to come out and be identified and come to a conclusion that would satisfy the human mind. The triteness of Neo literally being “prophesied” as “The One” and the speech by the old white computer simulation in the second one would have been paid off infinitely better by such a revelation.
     
    That wouldn't exactly have been a revelation, though, since the architect laid all that out for Neo in the second film. It would simply have been confirmation. Resistance is futile, etc. That would have been a solid '70s ending.

    Frankly, they should have made a duology, not a trilogy.Those action scenes in the last two films got really boring really quickly.....

    That wouldn’t exactly have been a revelation, though, since the architect laid all that out for Neo in the second film

    Would have been for the audience, most of whom thought Neo was The One and was “breaking” free of the Matrix‘s chains.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    That wouldn’t exactly have been a revelation, though, since the architect laid all that out for Neo in the second film

    Would have been for the audience, most of whom thought Neo was The One and was “breaking” free of the Matrix‘s chains.
     

    Perhaps with some re-structuring. As I said upthread, dump the notion of a trilogy. Make it a tight duology. Bring in the scene with the architect at the mid-point of the second film and play out the pseudo-drama of Neo's resistance so that it culminates at the end of the second film. That might have been interesting. At the very least, it would have been shorter....
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  76. @Inquiring Mind
    Some of my best friends are associated with the alt-right, but I wouldn't want my . . .

    Someone explain to me who this Steven Pinker is. He doesn't seem to be Jordan Peterson, who as far as I can tell has already slammed down a fistful of red pills. He seems to have one of those red pills caught in that fold in the back of his throat where he cannot cough it up but cannot swallow it either?

    Does the video go on to enumerate any of the repellent reprllent conclusions Pinker alluded to?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Pinker who has been reading fora like this one points out that a sizeable portion of commenters on this forum express over-the-top and unargued prejudices (which nobody can deny). He took pains to assert that racial prejudice is bad-think while conceding the truth about the black homicide rate. He argued that in times gone by, the Irish crime rate was higher than any other eth, but that is no longer the case. According to Pinker, we may hope for the same for blacks.

    Are there statistics about black crime in the past? In popular lore, Negroes were seen as razor-wielding hoodlums playing dice in the alley - Amos & Andy - Porgy and Bess style. Was their crime rate the same then as now?
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  77. whorefinder says: • Website
    @Dave Pinsen

    The Matrix was pretty ridiculous, and for me very trite and predictable.
     
    Do trite movies generally inspire books by philosophers? The humans-as-batteries motivation was weak, but the (original) Matrix was innovative, entertaining, commercially successful, and hugely influential. And as commercial movies go, it was practically highbrow. I saw it a theater sitting in front of NAMs who, judging by their comments, were frequently confused by it.

    It's tough to look back objectively on movies that are as influential as the Matrix, because they seem cliched in hindsight, but that hindsight isn't accurate. Greatness and originality become cliche with time and repetition. A friend who liked Heat emailed me recently and said he’d watched Michael Mann’s ’80s Hannibal pic Manhunter and thought it was terrible. I disagreed, but could see the problem. It basically launched the profiler genre, one that’s been beaten to death. So, seen through the lens of all that came after, it seems cliched. But viewed on its own merits it’s great.

    This is like how Fight Club was a fairly predictable movie, where it was fairly easy to guess that the Narrator and Tyler Durden were the same dude...
     
    It wasn't that easy to guess, first time around, but even if you had guessed it, did you guess how Fight Club would morph into Project Mayhem, or the climax? Probably not.

    However, Matrix and Fight Club were original to a whole generation of young men, who were young and impressionable and naive when they saw them and hadn’t seen what they were derivative of
     
    They seemed original because they were. Being influenced by prior art doesn't change that. It's hard to think of a prior movie offhand that included all of the themes Fight Club did.

    Do trite movies generally inspire books by philosophers?

    Great argument. “It’s brilliant because this guy says it was brilliant, because he wrote a book trying to piggyback on its fame to sell more!”

    Appeal to authority much?

    It’s tough to look back objectively on movies that are as influential as the Matrix, because they seem cliched in hindsight, but that hindsight isn’t accurate. Greatness and originality become cliche with time and repetition. A friend who liked Heat emailed me recently and said he’d watched Michael Mann’s ’80s Hannibal pic Manhunter and thought it was terrible. I disagreed, but could see the problem. It basically launched the profiler genre, one that’s been beaten to death. So, seen through the lens of all that came after, it seems cliched. But viewed on its own merits it’s great.

    Buddy, I saw it in theaters and said at the time it was well-made but predictable and trite. The only “innovative” part was the special effects, such as the famous done-to-death slow-mo-360-camera bullet scene. But special effects being innovative doesn’t make the film itself innovative. That would make Avatar innovative, which it was not; it was just Pocahontas in Space with some really good computer animation.

    It wasn’t that easy to guess, first time around, but even if you had guessed it, did you guess how Fight Club would morph into Project Mayhem, or the climax? Probably not.

    It was very easy to guess the identity, and yes, the idea that he was building an army was predictable as well. Every movie that begins with assembling a group of disparate men and violently whipping them into shape ends with a mission to either steal something or attack something . Since Tyler was clearly a nut and they weren’t exactly the high-tech/fine diamond connoisseurs,, it wasn’t going to be a mission to re-enact The Thomas Crown Affair.

    They seemed original because they were. Being influenced by prior art doesn’t change that. It’s hard to think of a prior movie offhand that included all of the themes Fight Clubdid.

    Dear goodness you’re sounding daft. There was nothing original about them beyond cosmetics. Everything was (sadly) predictable about them, beyond the narrator shooting himself to kill of Tyler and a few special effects. Merely because they were entertaining, well-done, rewatchable derivatives doesn’t mean they weren’t predictable derivatives. lots of people watch It’s a Wonderful Life every year, but that doesn’t make it less predictable to them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    Dear goodness you’re sounding daft. There was nothing original about them beyond cosmetics.
     
    Okay, which films did The Matrix rip off?

    Which films did Fight Club rip off?
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  78. @Anonymous
    A more complete version of his talk that is not cut-off mid way:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTiRnbNT5uE

    He’s vomiting disingenuity.

    Read More
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  79. @Charles Pewitt
    If the Alt-Right is so intelligent, how come I can't remember the difference between "your" and "you're"?

    I have about a 110 IQ. That's all you need to understand politics. The key thing for the Alt-Right is to have courage and heart and the grim determination to fight through to victory.

    I have about a 110 IQ. That’s all you need to understand politics.

    For a certain level of understanding.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Enough understanding to know to a DB when I see one.

    Anyone who's worked in business (and politics is probably the same) can tell you that there's a certain IQ threshold - ~115 to 120 let's say - where anything past that just doesn't add much. Other attributes - social skills, work ethic, willingness to take risks, etc. - become far more important.

    It seems that engineer and IT types often don't get this. Perhaps in their fields, IQ and job ability continue to move in lockstep no matter the IQ level, but that's not case in other professions.
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  80. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Negrolphin Pool
    Does the video go on to enumerate any of the repellent reprllent conclusions Pinker alluded to?

    Pinker who has been reading fora like this one points out that a sizeable portion of commenters on this forum express over-the-top and unargued prejudices (which nobody can deny). He took pains to assert that racial prejudice is bad-think while conceding the truth about the black homicide rate. He argued that in times gone by, the Irish crime rate was higher than any other eth, but that is no longer the case. According to Pinker, we may hope for the same for blacks.

    Are there statistics about black crime in the past? In popular lore, Negroes were seen as razor-wielding hoodlums playing dice in the alley – Amos & Andy – Porgy and Bess style. Was their crime rate the same then as now?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Pinker cites long term studies of homicides rates in NYC and Philadelphia. Blacks have had the highest murder rate in both cities since the Civil War, although not in one of the cities before the Civil War.

    Along those lines, in my new column I mention how Iceland is having a meltdown over the murder rate doubling in one year, from 2 in 2016 to 4 in 2017. But a 1000 years ago, Iceland had a high murder rate according to the Eddas.

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  81. @Jus' Sayin'...
    Pinker is rather straightforward about naming a few obvious major premises that might start some syllogisms. He is very shy about going on to add a minor premise and the appropriate conclusion:

    (1) Major Premise: Certain ethnic (sic) groups commit more crime than other ethnic (sic) groups
    Minor Premise: We would prefer that there be less crime in our society.
    Conclusion: We would prefer fewer members of high-crime ethnic (sic) groups in our society.

    Corollary: We would prefer not to admit Somalis, et al. into our society.

    And Pinker is not so crazy as to even consider mentioning racial (or to use his terminology, ethnic) group differences in the psychological capacity fully to adjust and contribute to our society, e.g., well known racial disparities in IQ and OCEAN, let alone discuss the policy implications of these.

    Pinker is a modern-day Galileo; brave enough to mention the truth but wise enough not to do so too loudly or in too public a manner. Watson is his Giordano Bruno, a condign example of what can happen to those who cry out obstreperously or effectively against the madness currently rampant within America's and Europe's ruling elites.

    (1) Major Premise: Certain ethnic (sic) groups commit more crime than other ethnic (sic) groups
    Minor Premise: We would prefer that there be less crime in our society.
    Conclusion: We would prefer fewer members of high-crime ethnic (sic) groups in our society.

    Corollary: We would prefer not to admit Somalis, et al. into our society.

    Oh, come on. If you’re going to go for it, go for the gold: the corollary is that we would prefer to not have American Blacks in our society.

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  82. Hopefully Pinker is in a position where he can’t be Watsoned.

    Re his substantive point: I agree, without the insanity of the cultural Marxist college campuses and their totalitarian system of lies, there would not be any question of a conveyor belt from “The Bell Curve” to “14/88 GTK-RWN!!”. Truth dies in darkness, which seems to be the US media motto these days, and people exposed to the truth after decades of lies – redpilling – sometimes react by embracing a different kind of darkness.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonguy

    Hopefully Pinker is in a position where he can’t be Watsoned.
     
    Or Weinsteined.
    , @Samuel Skinner

    Re his substantive point: I agree, without the insanity of the cultural Marxist college campuses and their totalitarian system of lies, there would not be any question of a conveyor belt from “The Bell Curve” to “14/88 GTK-RWN!!”.
     
    Except there is- Malthus. Red pill in regards to sex makes you realize low fertility is not due to prosperity, but how screwed up society is. In a healthy society you'd have a birth rate above replacement which means in the long run you are competing with every other group and ethnic groups part of your coalition that are below average contributors make you more likely to lose out and eventually be wiped out.
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  83. @a reader
    Steve, you got a secret reader 10 Downing Street, and at Cornell as well.

    As far as Cameron was concerned, the old adage springs to mind: “It takes one to know one.”

    Luckily he is no longer in 10 Downing Street, though his successor is equally useless.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
    I think she is a lot worse, she could have buried Labour, but she has revived them instead.
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  84. @Dave Pinsen

    The Matrix was pretty ridiculous, and for me very trite and predictable.
     
    Do trite movies generally inspire books by philosophers? The humans-as-batteries motivation was weak, but the (original) Matrix was innovative, entertaining, commercially successful, and hugely influential. And as commercial movies go, it was practically highbrow. I saw it a theater sitting in front of NAMs who, judging by their comments, were frequently confused by it.

    It's tough to look back objectively on movies that are as influential as the Matrix, because they seem cliched in hindsight, but that hindsight isn't accurate. Greatness and originality become cliche with time and repetition. A friend who liked Heat emailed me recently and said he’d watched Michael Mann’s ’80s Hannibal pic Manhunter and thought it was terrible. I disagreed, but could see the problem. It basically launched the profiler genre, one that’s been beaten to death. So, seen through the lens of all that came after, it seems cliched. But viewed on its own merits it’s great.

    This is like how Fight Club was a fairly predictable movie, where it was fairly easy to guess that the Narrator and Tyler Durden were the same dude...
     
    It wasn't that easy to guess, first time around, but even if you had guessed it, did you guess how Fight Club would morph into Project Mayhem, or the climax? Probably not.

    However, Matrix and Fight Club were original to a whole generation of young men, who were young and impressionable and naive when they saw them and hadn’t seen what they were derivative of
     
    They seemed original because they were. Being influenced by prior art doesn't change that. It's hard to think of a prior movie offhand that included all of the themes Fight Club did.

    Do trite movies generally inspire books by philosophers?

    Yes. There are philosophical works about Scooby Doo and Gilligan’s Island.

    I see no correlation between

    A. Level of triteness.
    and
    B. Has inspired a work of philosophy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Fair enough.

    The Matrix wasn't my favorite (and its sequels weren't good except as action movies), but it was certainly original and influential.
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  85. That was a truncated version. For more context see this clip:

    As you might expect from someone who viewed Kevin Macdonald’s work as not rising to the level where it actually had to be read before it was rejected, Pinker proceeds to spell out why he finds us so “repellent” in exquisite detail. This is just a limited hangout for people who can’t quite buy into the twisted absurdities being promulgated by our enemies, but who are totally on board with the agenda.

    Read More
    • Agree: Negrolphin Pool
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    But he's not talking about us specifically here.

    More motte and bailey.
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  86. @Anonymous
    Pinker who has been reading fora like this one points out that a sizeable portion of commenters on this forum express over-the-top and unargued prejudices (which nobody can deny). He took pains to assert that racial prejudice is bad-think while conceding the truth about the black homicide rate. He argued that in times gone by, the Irish crime rate was higher than any other eth, but that is no longer the case. According to Pinker, we may hope for the same for blacks.

    Are there statistics about black crime in the past? In popular lore, Negroes were seen as razor-wielding hoodlums playing dice in the alley - Amos & Andy - Porgy and Bess style. Was their crime rate the same then as now?

    Pinker cites long term studies of homicides rates in NYC and Philadelphia. Blacks have had the highest murder rate in both cities since the Civil War, although not in one of the cities before the Civil War.

    Along those lines, in my new column I mention how Iceland is having a meltdown over the murder rate doubling in one year, from 2 in 2016 to 4 in 2017. But a 1000 years ago, Iceland had a high murder rate according to the Eddas.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Pinker cites long term studies of homicides rates in NYC and Philadelphia. Blacks have had the highest murder rate in both cities since the Civil War, although not in one of the cities before the Civil War.
     
    He places a lot of weight on that fact.....too much, to my way of thinking. Of course, the book is full of a lot of crimethink. Perhaps Pinker felt that he couldn't go too far in regards to the radioactive topic of Blacks and violence....
    , @Tim Howells

    Pinker cites long term studies of homicides rates in NYC and Philadelphia
     
    I'd be interested in seeing those studies. It seems to me that I have seen stats that indicate that Blacks have always had higher rates of violent crime, but that they used to be something like 20% to 50% higher prior to the civil rights movement and the 1960's, as opposed to the 500% to 800% higher that we have become accustomed to. I've tried to verify this without success.
    , @Bill P
    There were a lot of parallels between the viking settler societies and the early American West. Anarchy combined with an honor-based culture results in high levels of violence.

    In fact, the societies were so similar that you could easily remake Njal's Saga as a Western without changing the basics of the story much at all.
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  87. syonredux says:
    @AndrewR
    Miller, besides being stereotypically obnoxious, is also a cuck who won't think twice about unceremoniously throwing people under the bus. Read what he said about Richard Spencer. I get the need to distance oneself from more radical individuals. Obama did it. Bill Clinton did it. It's politics. But one can distance oneself like a loyal, honorable man, or one can distance oneself like a dishonorable coward, and Miller chose the latter.

    Read what he said about Richard Spencer. I get the need to distance oneself from more radical individuals. Obama did it. Bill Clinton did it. It’s politics. But one can distance oneself like a loyal, honorable man, or one can distance oneself like a dishonorable coward, and Miller chose the latter.

    Nobody cares about Richard Spencer; he’s worthless.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Did he reject your amorous advances or what?
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  88. syonredux says:
    @whorefinder

    That wouldn’t exactly have been a revelation, though, since the architect laid all that out for Neo in the second film
     
    Would have been for the audience, most of whom thought Neo was The One and was "breaking" free of the Matrix's chains.

    That wouldn’t exactly have been a revelation, though, since the architect laid all that out for Neo in the second film

    Would have been for the audience, most of whom thought Neo was The One and was “breaking” free of the Matrix‘s chains.

    Perhaps with some re-structuring. As I said upthread, dump the notion of a trilogy. Make it a tight duology. Bring in the scene with the architect at the mid-point of the second film and play out the pseudo-drama of Neo’s resistance so that it culminates at the end of the second film. That might have been interesting. At the very least, it would have been shorter….

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  89. syonredux says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Pinker cites long term studies of homicides rates in NYC and Philadelphia. Blacks have had the highest murder rate in both cities since the Civil War, although not in one of the cities before the Civil War.

    Along those lines, in my new column I mention how Iceland is having a meltdown over the murder rate doubling in one year, from 2 in 2016 to 4 in 2017. But a 1000 years ago, Iceland had a high murder rate according to the Eddas.

    Pinker cites long term studies of homicides rates in NYC and Philadelphia. Blacks have had the highest murder rate in both cities since the Civil War, although not in one of the cities before the Civil War.

    He places a lot of weight on that fact…..too much, to my way of thinking. Of course, the book is full of a lot of crimethink. Perhaps Pinker felt that he couldn’t go too far in regards to the radioactive topic of Blacks and violence….

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  90. @DFH
    I'm curious to know if Pinker was thinking just about racial truths, or also those about Jews.

    Pinker in 2006(? 2008?) edited the annual Edge edition/symposium in which 100 “leading thinkers” are asked to write on a theme.

    Pinker’s question to them – “What is your dangerous idea? An idea you think about (not necessarily one you originated) that is dangerous not because it is assumed to be false, but because it might be true?”

    https://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/dangerous08/dangerous08_index.html

    “Do women, on average, have a different profile of aptitudes and emotions than men? Were the events in the Bible fictitious — not just the miracles, but those involving kings and empires? Has the state of the environment improved in the last fifty years? Do most victims of sexual abuse suffer no lifelong damage? Did Native Americans engage in genocide and despoil the landscape? Do men have an innate tendency to rape? Did the crime rate go down in the 1990s because two decades earlier poor women aborted children who would have been prone to violence? Are suicide terrorists well educated, mentally healthy, and morally driven? Are Ashkenazi Jews, on average, smarter than gentiles because their ancestors were selected for the shrewdness needed in money lending? Would the incidence of rape go down if prostitution were legalized? Do African American men have higher levels of testosterone, on average, than white men? Is morality just a product of the evolution of our brains, with no inherent reality? Would society be better off if heroin and cocaine were legalized? Is homosexuality the symptom of an infectious disease? Would it be consistent with our moral principles to give parents the option of euthanizing newborns with birth defects that would consign them to a life of pain and disability? Do parents have any effect on the character or intelligence of their children? Have religions killed a greater proportion of people than Nazism? Would damage from terrorism be reduced if the police could torture suspects in special circumstances? Would Africa have a better chance of rising out of poverty if it hosted more polluting industries or accepted Europe’s nuclear waste? Is the average intelligence of Western nations declining because duller people are having more children than smarter people? Would unwanted children be better off if there were a market in adoption rights, with babies going to the highest bidder? Would lives be saved if we instituted a free market in organs for transplantation? Should people have the right to clone themselves, or enhance the genetic traits of their children?

    Perhaps you can feel your blood pressure rise as you read these questions. Perhaps you are appalled that people can so much as think such things. Perhaps you think less of me for bringing them up. These are dangerous ideas — ideas that are denounced not because they are self-evidently false, nor because they advocate harmful action, but because they are thought to corrode the prevailing moral order. “

    Pinker knows what’s what, but takes care to cover his back

    “By “dangerous ideas” I don’t have in mind harmful technologies, like those behind weapons of mass destruction, or evil ideologies, like those of racist, fascist, or other fanatical cults. I have in mind statements of fact or policy that are defended with evidence and argument by serious scientists and thinkers but which are felt to challenge the collective decency of an age. The ideas in the first paragraph, and the moral panic that each one of them has incited during the past quarter century, are examples. Writers who have raised ideas like these have been vilified, censored, fired, threatened, and in some cases physically assaulted. “

    Note the first “leading thinker” – John Horgan, who bravely puts his life on the line by suggesting humans may not have souls.

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    • Replies: @Dieter Kief

    Note the first “leading thinker” – John Horgan, who bravely puts his life on the line by suggesting humans may not have souls.
     
    Jep - this Edge isn't that edgy - it's rather round. I'd add John Brockman to the Confusianists.
    Pinker's text is a bit on the defensive side stylistically, but ok.
    , @Plainman
    Why is Communism not included in the two references to Nazism?
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  91. @Bill P
    I think the "red pill" meme originated in the manosphere, but I don't know for sure who popularized it. I never really liked it all that much myself, because I thought The Matrix was a ridiculous and totally PC movie, but admittedly as a term it's a pretty good hook for the recently initiated. Also it expresses the fire/ice yang/yin dichotomy, which is sort of enlightening.

    Anyway, Pinker's right as usual. He's kind of interesting in that he's one of the few people who can bring this stuff up in public without being lynched for it. I've got to give Pinker credit for that; he's so intellectually deft that he can say things without really saying them. But still, you've got to wonder whether that doesn't take the edge off his work.

    Unfortunately, we're going to need a legion of guys like Pinker to steer the Leviathan in the right direction, and he's pretty unique. Seems foreboding to me at this point.

    Steven Pinker is not alone. There are others – and what’s been really refreshing last year is the fact, that they started to conncet.

    I think of: Jonathan Haidt, Jordan B. Peterson, Stefan Molyneux, Camille Paglia, Sam Harris and others (Douglas and Charles Murray…). And Pinker is part of this pretty impresive group of intellectuals which are – by and large – saying what – ehe – Steve Sailer and Ron Unz (Anatoly Karlin and James Thompson) are saying on a lot of crucial subjects (race, IQ, crime), too.

    PS
    (Btw – I’m still wondering what that most important book will be, Steve Sailer hinted at – with almost these words – last year; and there’s a new Pinker book announced for springtime…).

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Sam Harris is virulently anti-white.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/samharrisorg/status/896793662050283521?lang=en
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  92. @Moses
    Pinker makes an important point, namely, that refusal to recognize or discuss, say, intrinsic sex differences, is pushing some people to question the entire narrative.

    He suggests that the left should recognize such differences while pushing its point of view that (undeniable) intrinsic gender or racial differences can be consistent with lefty PC & multikult beliefs

    He doesn't really address the elephant in the room, which is that given recognition of intrinsic differences the alt-right has an incredibly powerful argument which leads to its conclusions in the same way water flows down a hill.

    I suspect that if non-PC facts were acceptable to discuss in polite company then many (most?) people would arrive at similar alt-right conclusions about gender and race. That's what happened to me. I used to be 100% cuck before I started paying attention to patterns.

    My own journey reminds me of the Thomas Jefferson quote: "We are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead..." Well, the truth leads inexorably to conclusions abhorrent to the left. That's why they'll never allow frank and open discussion of facts they don't like. You saw it in Google's reaction to Damore's memo.

    The left will never be reasonable. They will double down and oppress until they can't.

    Could you please detail the progress of your own journey?

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  93. @Steve Sailer
    Pinker cites long term studies of homicides rates in NYC and Philadelphia. Blacks have had the highest murder rate in both cities since the Civil War, although not in one of the cities before the Civil War.

    Along those lines, in my new column I mention how Iceland is having a meltdown over the murder rate doubling in one year, from 2 in 2016 to 4 in 2017. But a 1000 years ago, Iceland had a high murder rate according to the Eddas.

    Pinker cites long term studies of homicides rates in NYC and Philadelphia

    I’d be interested in seeing those studies. It seems to me that I have seen stats that indicate that Blacks have always had higher rates of violent crime, but that they used to be something like 20% to 50% higher prior to the civil rights movement and the 1960′s, as opposed to the 500% to 800% higher that we have become accustomed to. I’ve tried to verify this without success.

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  94. @J.Ross
    The "alt-right" has two consistent usages: one is pretty much an inferior synonym for Derb's prior and clearer term "dissident right," and one is a somewhat coherent new group within that category. Thus Steve is alt-right in that he is rightish without compatibility with John McCain, but not alt-right at all in the sense that he has nothing to do with this new crop of activist youtube hosts. We could point up "dissident right" to avoid confusion.
    I hate and suspect the term as a mainstream media damn-label for all of us, but admit to having circulated a graphic, a design-savvy nine box grid, originated by Spencer and endorsed by Heartiste over a year ago, because it had no objectionable elements and was a uniquely good light introduction. Each box described major issues that the "dissident right" (in the graphic, "the alt-right") was concerned with but which was undiscussed or dismissed by respectable company.

    Following Sailer’s general approach, I think much of the alt-right should call itself “HBD-aware.” For much (not all) alt-right thinkers, awareness of human biodiversity is the key insight above all others.

    The opposite of HBD-aware is HBD-ignorant which is a difficult position to defend. So it works.

    Calling the HBD-awareness movement “alt-right” puts it on the right-left political spectrum, which is the wrong approach.

    We could use more politically left-wing HBD-aware thinkers. Linh Dinh would be an example of one.

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  95. @James Speaks
    His thesis is that suppressed truths un-suppress themselves with predictable results. I agree.

    Unfortunately, I will now have to devote a significant fraction of my retirement to becoming familiar with this guy's works.

    Why?

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  96. @AndrewR
    Miller, besides being stereotypically obnoxious, is also a cuck who won't think twice about unceremoniously throwing people under the bus. Read what he said about Richard Spencer. I get the need to distance oneself from more radical individuals. Obama did it. Bill Clinton did it. It's politics. But one can distance oneself like a loyal, honorable man, or one can distance oneself like a dishonorable coward, and Miller chose the latter.

    Oh please. Spencer threw himself under the bus and ever since has been trying to drag as many other people as he can under with him. Spencer seems to be completely lacking in honor. A miserable human being.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    How so?
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  97. rogue-one says:
    @Inquiring Mind
    Some of my best friends are associated with the alt-right, but I wouldn't want my . . .

    Someone explain to me who this Steven Pinker is. He doesn't seem to be Jordan Peterson, who as far as I can tell has already slammed down a fistful of red pills. He seems to have one of those red pills caught in that fold in the back of his throat where he cannot cough it up but cannot swallow it either?

    Or he is smart enough to know how much further to the right of the overton window he can go without being ostracized.

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  98. anonguy says:
    @Simon in London
    Hopefully Pinker is in a position where he can't be Watsoned.

    Re his substantive point: I agree, without the insanity of the cultural Marxist college campuses and their totalitarian system of lies, there would not be any question of a conveyor belt from "The Bell Curve" to "14/88 GTK-RWN!!". Truth dies in darkness, which seems to be the US media motto these days, and people exposed to the truth after decades of lies - redpilling - sometimes react by embracing a different kind of darkness.

    Hopefully Pinker is in a position where he can’t be Watsoned.

    Or Weinsteined.

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  99. So then, is Steven Pinker is on the unwelcome list at Google?

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  100. AndrewR says:
    @syonredux

    Read what he said about Richard Spencer. I get the need to distance oneself from more radical individuals. Obama did it. Bill Clinton did it. It’s politics. But one can distance oneself like a loyal, honorable man, or one can distance oneself like a dishonorable coward, and Miller chose the latter.
     
    Nobody cares about Richard Spencer; he's worthless.

    Did he reject your amorous advances or what?

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Did he reject your amorous advances or what?
     
    Dear boy, my tastes are far too refined for the likes of Richard Spencer......
    , @Desiderius
    He's a dork.

    When someone is the broad brush your enemies use to tar you, it's a pretty good clue that that someone is not good for your team.
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  101. Pericles says:
    @J.Ross
    The "alt-right" has two consistent usages: one is pretty much an inferior synonym for Derb's prior and clearer term "dissident right," and one is a somewhat coherent new group within that category. Thus Steve is alt-right in that he is rightish without compatibility with John McCain, but not alt-right at all in the sense that he has nothing to do with this new crop of activist youtube hosts. We could point up "dissident right" to avoid confusion.
    I hate and suspect the term as a mainstream media damn-label for all of us, but admit to having circulated a graphic, a design-savvy nine box grid, originated by Spencer and endorsed by Heartiste over a year ago, because it had no objectionable elements and was a uniquely good light introduction. Each box described major issues that the "dissident right" (in the graphic, "the alt-right") was concerned with but which was undiscussed or dismissed by respectable company.

    Have you accepted Pepe in your heart yet?

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Those who attempt to put a collar and leash upon the neck of Kek will encounter a disappointing reality.
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  102. @utu
    Were Wachowski brothers (sisters) influenced by The Futurological Congress of S. Lem (1971)?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Futurological_Congress
    Trottelreiner explains, "mascon" derives from mask, masquerade, mascara: "By introducing properly prepared mascons to the brain, one can mask any object in the outside world behind a fictitious image—superimposed—and with such dexterity, that the psychemasconated subject cannot tell which of his perceptions have been altered, and which have not. If but for a single instant you could see this world of ours the way it really is—undoctored, unadulterated, uncensored—you would drop in your tracks!"

    The professor then gives Tichy a flask of "up'n'at'm, one of the vigilanimides, a powerful countersomniac and antipsychem agent. A derivative of dimethylethylhexabutylpeptopeyotine". With his first sip of up'n'at'm, Tichy watches as the gilded surroundings of the five-star restaurant they are in evaporates into a dingy concrete bunker, and his stuffed pheasant turns into "the most unappetizing gray-brown gruel, which stuck in globs to my tin — no longer silver — fork".

    But this first dose is just the beginning of Tichy's journey. He sees that people do not drive cars or ride in elevators, but they run in the streets and climb the walls of empty elevator shafts, which explains why everyone in this new world is so out of breath. Robots whip people in the street and protect order. Through successive doses of up'n'at'm, Tichy sees increasingly horrible visions of the world, climaxing in a frozen horrorscape where people sleep blissfully in the snow, and the police robots are revealed to be people who are convinced that they are robots. The frozen state of the world explains why he has always found the new world to be so cold.
     


    http://forum.lem.pl/index.php?topic=834.0
    It must be said that I haven’t so far read explicitly the link between the famous Matrix series by the Wachowski brothers and The Congress of Futurology. Though the reader will surely find references that seem to me more than evident, it seems that reviewers haven’t yet paid attention, and as far as I know, the Wachowski brothers have not stated the influence of this of Lem’s work in their films. This regards the book’s leitmotiv: a world in which reality is created by psychotropic drugs, as the real world has become unbearable (I must say that as horrible as the real world created by the Wachowski brothers might be, It isn’t nearly as awful as the one described by Lem).
     

    https://www.challengingdestiny.com/reviews/futurological.htm
    When I originally reviewed this book, the movie The Matrix had not been released. When I re-read The Futurological Congress, I was struck by many parallels between this book and the world of that movie. The Wachowski Brothers have always admitted that they borrowed liberally from the genre of science fiction; in one possibly coincidental similarity, Ijon Tichy is offered a choice of two pills by his girlfriend, one pill to make him forget the relationship and the other to make him commit more fully. The colour of the pills may differ (Lem uses black and white pills, while the famous choice of pills in The Matrix was between blue and red), but the book and the movie share many of the same concerns about reality and the nature of the self against the background of such reality flux.
     

    Thanks for the references to Lem.

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  103. @Puremania
    Professor Pinker is absolutely right about the shock effect, and consequent political snap, that results from learning taboo Hatefacts like the ones he describes.
    In my case, it was the discovery, over 30 years ago, that world hunger was decreasing, contrary to conventional wisdom. Basically the same crucible that Julian Simon and Bjorn Lomborg went through, though I hadn't come across any writing like that at the time. This emerged from my simple hobby of perusing data from the UN-FAO, CIA Factbook, and other sources. To go against the grain and learn about scientists like Norman Borlaug, after having been marinated in Paul Erlich-type alarmism at school and in the mass media, was to feel bitterly betrayed.
    I slammed the door on the Chicken Little Left and their destructive socialist nostrums. I came to feel that fashionable "progressives" were just unserious people.
    It's been a gauntlet of what Pinker here calls uncontroversial truths. The one that brought me here, 15 years ago, was Steve's Cousin Marriage Conundrum. But yea, that first BadTruth, it'll rock your world and alter your political DNA.

    For me the clincher was when I read a first-rate history of the Industrial Revolution in which were presented tables comparing the standards of living, longevity and the like for periods a hundred years before, during and after. Marx was quite simply wrong. The lives of the mass proletariate improved consistently in every category, paralleling developments in techniques of mass production and gains in theoretical knowledge of physics and chemistry. Humanity was not immiserated by technology.

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  104. Yak-15 says:
    @AndrewR
    Miller, besides being stereotypically obnoxious, is also a cuck who won't think twice about unceremoniously throwing people under the bus. Read what he said about Richard Spencer. I get the need to distance oneself from more radical individuals. Obama did it. Bill Clinton did it. It's politics. But one can distance oneself like a loyal, honorable man, or one can distance oneself like a dishonorable coward, and Miller chose the latter.

    Miller is bright, highly articulate and extremely energetic. I am glad we have him on our side. Spencer is utterly worthless and poisons our brand.

    Why should Miller threaten our gains by embracing odious trolls like Spencer?

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    • Replies: @Olorin

    Spencer is utterly worthless and poisons our brand.
     
    The fact that you and others opposition troll any mention of him so fervently proves this wrong.
    , @AndrewR
    I never said Miller should "embrace" Spencer, but simply that Miller should disavow Spencer in an honorable, manly, politically useful way not the "ew, cooties" way he did. Miller should have said "Spencer's beliefs are no more odious than leftist anti-white racists' beliefs but since the system is anti-white, Spencer is demonized and anti-white racists are not."

    But Miller, of course, is Hebrew controlled opposition, so don't expect him to actually be useful.
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  105. jb says:

    The video you link to seems to have been posted by a rabid SJW who isn’t approving any comments other than his own and those few that support his views. Wanna bet that when he figures out why the number of views and comments has skyrocketed the video comes down?

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  106. Yak-15 says:
    @Bartolo
    Wow. Just wow. Obviously, he is not Alt-Right (sadly), but he can grant that we are not retarded monsters and say it publicly at such a venue. It takes cojones. Let this be a reminder for some alt-righters wo condemn Jews wholesale that so many of them are outstanding people in so many ways. Think Unz, Steven Miller, Jerry Seinfeld, Paul Gottfried, the late Larry Auster, Ilana Mercer... And in France, Zemmour, Finkielkraut, Elizabeth Lévy, Goldnadel... Let's call Jews out whenever necessary, without fear; but let's make a constant effort not to be hostile to the many, many upstanding and admirable people among them.

    Many here are WAY too focused on the negatives of Jews. I personally know many great Jews whose opinions tend to fall on our side. Why must we alienate potential high quality allies?

    Of course, the ones I know who holds views antithetical to ours are excruciatingly obnoxious and use their verbal acuity to distract from their complete obtuseness and ignorance of red pill axioms.

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    • Agree: Peter Johnson
    • Replies: @anon
    Of course, the ones I know who holds views antithetical to ours are excruciatingly obnoxious and use their verbal acuity to distract from their complete obtuseness and ignorance of red pill axioms.

    Have you considered the possibility that they're not really obtuse or ignorant, but just dishonest?
    , @ben tillman

    Many here are WAY too focused on the negatives of Jews. I personally know many great Jews whose opinions tend to fall on our side. Why must we alienate potential high quality allies?
     
    If, in a conflict between Whites and Jews, they don't take our side, they're not on our side.
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  107. NMo says:
    @whorefinder

    I think the “red pill” meme originated in the manosphere, but I don’t know for sure who popularized it. I never really liked it all that much myself, because I thought The Matrix was a ridiculous and totally PC movie, but admittedly as a term it’s a pretty good hook for the recently initiated. Also it expresses the fire/ice yang/yin dichotomy, which is sort of enlightening.
     
    The Matrix was pretty ridiculous, and for me very trite and predictable. "The world is all a meaningless illusion, the reality is we're all slaves, we need to revolt!" is a science fiction/ Marxist trope that I've seen before and instantly recognized (note that Cornell West had a speaking role in these films).

    Of course, being leftists, the Wachowskis messed up the payoff. The payoff should have been that all three Matrix movies themselves were all controlled/setup by the Matrix, a sort of Inception-like ending where Neo realizes that everything he's done is really part of the same computer simulation. This was hinted at at various points, but the Wachowski's shied away from it, muddling the ending.

    This is like how Fight Club was a fairly predictable movie, where it was fairly easy to guess that the Narrator and Tyler Durden were the same dude, thus the twist didn't work. The theme of anti-consumerism and male physicality and destruction was also fairly trite. About the only original part was the narrator blowing out his own brain to silence Tyler.

    However, Matrix and Fight Club were original to a whole generation of young men, who were young and impressionable and naive when they saw them and hadn't seen what they were derivative of, and if you aren't steeped in Marxist nonsense they do have alternative interpretations about truth and masculinity that work well with Alt-Right truths.

    In any event, the Left is pretty pissed that what they thought was an equaltarian-SJW-Marxist-trope has been turned against them.

    Fight Club: “About the only original part was the narrator blowing out his own brain to silence Tyler.”

    See “William Wilson” by Edgar Allen Poe. Merging anti-consumerism and manosphere themes with William Wilson may be original, but the ending, strictly speaking, was not.

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  108. Brendan says:

    Pinker can do what he wants primarily because anyone who reads his books realizes quickly he’s a legit genius (and realizes other people realize this too) willing and capable of publicly shredding them.

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    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    Pinker’s statement on male and female differences are interesting considering the class action suit filed by James Damore against Google.

    It would great if we could put other differences aside for the time being and focus on trying to get that one aspect on the road to respectability. Pinker isn’t alone this one.

    It isn’t the same as race differences. It would be easier to convince people on this aspect.

    To shut down the feminazis would a huge advance.

    Let’s try.
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  109. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Moses
    Pinker makes an important point, namely, that refusal to recognize or discuss, say, intrinsic sex differences, is pushing some people to question the entire narrative.

    He suggests that the left should recognize such differences while pushing its point of view that (undeniable) intrinsic gender or racial differences can be consistent with lefty PC & multikult beliefs

    He doesn't really address the elephant in the room, which is that given recognition of intrinsic differences the alt-right has an incredibly powerful argument which leads to its conclusions in the same way water flows down a hill.

    I suspect that if non-PC facts were acceptable to discuss in polite company then many (most?) people would arrive at similar alt-right conclusions about gender and race. That's what happened to me. I used to be 100% cuck before I started paying attention to patterns.

    My own journey reminds me of the Thomas Jefferson quote: "We are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead..." Well, the truth leads inexorably to conclusions abhorrent to the left. That's why they'll never allow frank and open discussion of facts they don't like. You saw it in Google's reaction to Damore's memo.

    The left will never be reasonable. They will double down and oppress until they can't.

    I suspect that if non-PC facts were acceptable to discuss in polite company then many (most?) people would arrive at similar alt-right conclusions about gender and race.

    Exactly, and that’s why they won’t really change. Right now, as Pinker points out, they have the problem of a few freaks and weirdos (no offense, of course. I count myself as one of them.) acknowledging all this stuff. But if they start talking about it honestly, then you’re going to have millions and millions of people who know about it, and that would be a disaster.

    And any transition from the current state of lying about everything, to some future state in which they tell the truth, but just spin it, will be a problem too. They’re basically going to have to admit that they’ve been lying this whole time, and who would trust them after that?

    That’s why it seems like they’ll probably just keep isolating and shaming the people who are honest about things. Sure, it’s not a perfect solution, but at least they can handle it. Telling the whole truth could be a disaster, from their point of view.

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  110. Big Bill says:
    @Anonymous IV
    Worth noting: if you watch longer clips of this panel discussion, Pinker goes on to provide nice, safe center-left spins on the "scary facts" he relates. For instance, on black crime, he says that it used to be the Irish who had the reputation as violent drunkards, and look, they changed over time. No reason to think other groups won't change their behavior, too! Hey, if it happens, then great. But we're talking generations for that to happen. And it won't happen until there is a reckoning about black culture in America. People like Glenn Loury and John McWhorter try to get this started but it gets nowhere. And while we're talking about the here and now, not some imagined future, when I try to slightly redpill leftist friends of mine on race/crime stats, they reply that statistics can't be trusted, they are "complex," and further that the police patrol more heavily in black neighborhoods, so of course there is going to be more police reports filed. The problem isn't that non-leftists are assuming blacks will never get their act together, it's that we can't even talk honestly about what is going on today. Pinker bypasses that by talking about the future.

    [W]hen I try to slightly redpill leftist friends of mine on race/crime stats, they reply that statistics can’t be trusted, they are “complex,” and further that the police patrol more heavily in black neighborhoods, so of course there is going to be more police reports filed.

    Thus the reason blacks are arrested so much is because there are so many police cruising the ghetto looking for blacks to fill the school-to-prison pipeline. The unspoken (but obvious) solution is fewer police and arrests in the ghetto.

    But when you change the subject to the recent jump in black-on-black murder rates they will shift gears and say that blacks are being murdered at higher rates because the police are DE-policing the ghetto. Cops need to be more aggressive.

    Liberals believe there is this magic “sweet spot” in which the Goldilocks police are “not too cold and not too hot, but just right”.

    I have taken a couple on Google street view ghetto tours and asked them why all the ghetto houses have bars on the windows and doors. Are they afraid of the police? Afraid of traveling salesmen? Afraid of Mormon missionaries? Or are they afraid of their own sons and daughters?

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  111. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Numinous
    If y'all think Pinker was praising you or validating your ideology and preferred policies, you are mistaken.

    He just said "intelligent", not "right" (or "wrong" for that matter.) Intelligence can be put to a wide range of uses. Many people are understandably frustrated by political correctness in the "regular" world, and so gravitate to the alt-right. But the alt-right is just peddling its own ideology, highly biased, selective, and politically correct in its own way.

    Intelligence can be put to a wide range of uses. Many people are understandably frustrated by political correctness in the “regular” world, and so gravitate to the alt-right.

    Better to be intelligent and basically right than to be intelligent and completely wrong.

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  112. @AndrewR
    Miller, besides being stereotypically obnoxious, is also a cuck who won't think twice about unceremoniously throwing people under the bus. Read what he said about Richard Spencer. I get the need to distance oneself from more radical individuals. Obama did it. Bill Clinton did it. It's politics. But one can distance oneself like a loyal, honorable man, or one can distance oneself like a dishonorable coward, and Miller chose the latter.

    Lmao for some one upset about people calling out the idiotic commentary about Trump, you sure get mad when some one points out your daddy Spencer has no clothes.

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  113. @J.Ross
    The "alt-right" has two consistent usages: one is pretty much an inferior synonym for Derb's prior and clearer term "dissident right," and one is a somewhat coherent new group within that category. Thus Steve is alt-right in that he is rightish without compatibility with John McCain, but not alt-right at all in the sense that he has nothing to do with this new crop of activist youtube hosts. We could point up "dissident right" to avoid confusion.
    I hate and suspect the term as a mainstream media damn-label for all of us, but admit to having circulated a graphic, a design-savvy nine box grid, originated by Spencer and endorsed by Heartiste over a year ago, because it had no objectionable elements and was a uniquely good light introduction. Each box described major issues that the "dissident right" (in the graphic, "the alt-right") was concerned with but which was undiscussed or dismissed by respectable company.

    I believe Spencer started his “alt right” website, from whence the name, before Derb’s defenestration from NR, so I doubt “Dissident Right” pre-dates “alt right” (but I might be wrong).

    Confusion over what the term means derives from its origin. Spencer was doing a “unite the right” schtick a long time ago. His website was big-tent-right-wing and combined WN types with non-WN types. No real coalition developed, but the term continued in its non-specificity.

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  114. @syonredux
    I've found that Pinker's The Blank Slate is quite effective at redpilling normies.

    Yes. If it were just a science book, it wouldn’t work as well, but its Communist cabal cover-up plotline makes everything more interesting.

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  115. Kevin C. says:
    @WR
    Unfortunately, we’re going to need a legion of guys like Pinker to steer the Leviathan in the right direction, and he’s pretty unique.

    I don't know how unique he is. I admit he is courageous. Probably he has enough money and fame to survive the backlash that will soon come to bite him. If I were to state the same undeniable facts of life in my workplace I would lose my job and would not be able to support my family. Regular guys don't have the luxury to speak truth to totalitarian leftist power, The left has virtually total control of the entertainment business, media, and academia (i.e. the channels through which folks form their opinions). Moreover, as someone said here not long ago, the powers that be have outsourced punishment of crimethinkers to 24/7 SJWs. They can single you out à la Alinsky (even if you are a nobody) and make your life miserable.

    The only way I see out of this is insane world is to keep exposing young men to the red pill till the dissident right reaches a critical mass (let's say 3 million people). Then yes, we could declare a "national day of truth" and post the 21st century equivalent of Luther's 95 theses on our office doors.

    The only way I see out of this is insane world is to keep exposing young men to the red pill till the dissident right reaches a critical mass (let’s say 3 million people). Then yes, we could declare a “national day of truth” and post the 21st century equivalent of Luther’s 95 theses on our office doors.

    Except that this whole ‘”critical mass” of Common People overturn the system’ model of revolution is a total myth. Successful revolutions are always about a rival elite or arriviste proto-elite overthrowing the current elite, with the “angry young men” being their mere pawns. Authentic “peasant revolts” are handily crushed by the PTB. And yes, the “dissident right” is entirely devoid of any proto-elite, and is pure “peasant.” 3 million, 3 billion, it doesn’t matter, there is no “critical mass” which the Elites cannot crush as easily as the armored, mounted knights and lords of the Middle Ages crushed massively larger armies of revolting peasants bearing pitchforks and torches on a semi-regular basis.

    Waking people to the “red pill” truth doesn’t, can’t, and won’t accomplish anything that really matters.

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    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    You again! lzloozlololzlzllolz

    There are no invincible mounted knights— jets, tanks, heavy drones and choppers aren’t going to run themselves without Deplorables aka “peasants” keeping them going. Simpler rides can be captured and redeployed by whoever wants ‘em. Happens all the time to expensive hardware in war zones. Also, BigDog robots and weaponized drone swarms haven’t been proven in combat.

    There are however, a shit ton of ‘longbows’ and ‘arrows’ in the hands of modern American civilians. And the modern longbows are far easier to use than the ancient kind—one need not be a professional soldier to do what English bowmen did to French armor at Agincourt.
    , @dfordoom

    Except that this whole ‘”critical mass” of Common People overturn the system’ model of revolution is a total myth. Successful revolutions are always about a rival elite or arriviste proto-elite overthrowing the current elite, with the “angry young men” being their mere pawns. Authentic “peasant revolts” are handily crushed by the PTB.
     
    Absolutely true, sadly.

    there is no “critical mass” which the Elites cannot crush as easily as the armored, mounted knights and lords of the Middle Ages crushed massively larger armies of revolting peasants bearing pitchforks and torches on a semi-regular basis.
     
    Agreed. And the PTB today are much better organised and have a much greater technological advantage over the masses than those medieval lords.

    Waking people to the “red pill” truth doesn’t, can’t, and won’t accomplish anything that really matters.
     
    The only chance would be a revolt within the elites. There's not much sign of that happening.
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  116. @Sajmon
    Pinker is brilliant but this subject is where he's succumb to bad input bias. He believes sources like NYT & WaPo for reporting on SJW/Alt-Rightism so he's got a total false reality playing in his mind. My favourite part is when he talks about the need for context, then provides the "right wing extremism" numbers as an 'informed' response to Islamic terror concern without delving into the per capita numbers. He's only brave to a point before retreating into acceptable discourse. In fact this seems to be the focus of the new anti-PC centrists; they criticize censorship, but tailor their arguments to fall within the parameters set by the censors even at the expense of intellectual honesty.

    So brilliant on the one hand, but being a gate-keeper on the other.

    ” they criticize censorship, but tailor their arguments to fall within the parameters set by the censors even at the expense of intellectual honesty.

    So brilliant on the one hand, but being a gate-keeper on the other.”

    Maybe not. Self censoring may be necessary to get the message through in many venues. Plinker may be working within the form to avoid having his whole response edited out of the final version of the video. That doesn’t make him a gatekeeper, just a man doing what he has to do in order to get past the gatekeepers.

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  117. Kevin C. says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Many people are understandably frustrated by political correctness in the “regular” world, and so gravitate to the alt-right.
     
    It’s not just about political correctness, anymore than it’s a mere disagreement about manners. What brings people to the alt-right is the increasing physical reality of hostile diversity in all its forms in everyday life. It’s getting to the point where the ‘mainstream’ zeitgeist is revolting to a lot of white ‘normies.’ More and more regular white people are thinking, and increasingly saying: “Go be non-white, or go be a degenerate freak, somewhere else.” Many whites in general are waking up to the fact that it’s a matter of existence and survival:

    https://twitter.com/HarmlessYardDog/status/950106345981841408

    https://twitter.com/HarmlessYardDog/status/950107760745746432

    It’s getting to the point where the ‘mainstream’ zeitgeist is revolting to a lot of white ‘normies.’ More and more regular white people are thinking, and increasingly saying: “Go be non-white, or go be a degenerate freak, somewhere else.” Many whites in general are waking up to the fact that it’s a matter of existence and survival:

    So what? So what if more and more “whites in general are waking up”? Simply being aware of a problem does not constitute a solution, and is meaningless if those who have become aware have no solution within their reach. Because it doesn’t matter how much us “regular white people” find the zeitgeist revolting and want the degenerate freaks and hostile foreign cultures to go elsewhere, there’s nothing we can do about it.

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    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    there’s nothing we can do about it
     
    Relax, bro. You’re gonna have a heart attack. :)
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  118. @WR
    Unfortunately, we’re going to need a legion of guys like Pinker to steer the Leviathan in the right direction, and he’s pretty unique.

    I don't know how unique he is. I admit he is courageous. Probably he has enough money and fame to survive the backlash that will soon come to bite him. If I were to state the same undeniable facts of life in my workplace I would lose my job and would not be able to support my family. Regular guys don't have the luxury to speak truth to totalitarian leftist power, The left has virtually total control of the entertainment business, media, and academia (i.e. the channels through which folks form their opinions). Moreover, as someone said here not long ago, the powers that be have outsourced punishment of crimethinkers to 24/7 SJWs. They can single you out à la Alinsky (even if you are a nobody) and make your life miserable.

    The only way I see out of this is insane world is to keep exposing young men to the red pill till the dissident right reaches a critical mass (let's say 3 million people). Then yes, we could declare a "national day of truth" and post the 21st century equivalent of Luther's 95 theses on our office doors.

    There are no degrees of unique. He’s either unique or not.

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  119. AndrewR says:
    @Dieter Kief
    Steven Pinker is not alone. There are others - and what's been really refreshing last year is the fact, that they started to conncet.

    I think of: Jonathan Haidt, Jordan B. Peterson, Stefan Molyneux, Camille Paglia, Sam Harris and others (Douglas and Charles Murray...). And Pinker is part of this pretty impresive group of intellectuals which are - by and large - saying what - ehe - Steve Sailer and Ron Unz (Anatoly Karlin and James Thompson) are saying on a lot of crucial subjects (race, IQ, crime), too.


    PS
    (Btw - I'm still wondering what that most important book will be, Steve Sailer hinted at - with almost these words - last year; and there's a new Pinker book announced for springtime...).

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    Sam Harris is virulently anti-white
     
    Ok - not allof them agree on every important subject. But Sam Harris and Charles Murray and Jordan B. Peterson agree, that "The Bell Curve" is a major achievement. And they agree, that PC-talk genderism have - at least:become - are outright destructive right now.

    And to me, that indeed looks like a big leap forward.
    As I said: Now they relate to one another, and this might make the big difference (at least that's what I sense. I do an awful lot of such discussions, I have to admit, and the cases, in which it was enough for my opponents to mention Hitler happen to be less and less. And it really helps, if you can cite big names like Steven Pinker.

    For me, Steve Sailer and Jordan B Peterson were the most interesting intellectuals last year. Steve Sailer, because he sees the traces and consequnces - often times right away. I was delighted about his James Damore covering, for example. And Peterson gets some of the basics right - like: He understands the fundamental difference between women and men (women being wired for unconditional love) - and he is able to follow his thoughts through without deminishing them while doing so, which means, he often times covers a big range of perspectives while talking about a certain subject - in other words: At times, he is (almost) perfect.

    , @biz
    One tweet out of hundreds or thousands does not make him "virulently anti-white."
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  120. Pinker chose to point out very specific things that are unarguable truths, rather than cast a wide blanket.. For example he didn’t make a blanket statement like ‘Muslims commit more terrorism’ which opens up the typical leftie points of ‘well, what’s terrorism?’ and ‘look at what Tim Mc Veigh did’ , etc.. Instead, he made a very specific point of ‘Muslims commit more suicide bombing attacks’. The data is likely there, and for the most part, indisputable. I don’t think he was cowering away from anything, he just didn’t want to get off topic.

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  121. @Cloudbuster
    I have about a 110 IQ. That’s all you need to understand politics.

    For a certain level of understanding.

    Enough understanding to know to a DB when I see one.

    Anyone who’s worked in business (and politics is probably the same) can tell you that there’s a certain IQ threshold – ~115 to 120 let’s say – where anything past that just doesn’t add much. Other attributes – social skills, work ethic, willingness to take risks, etc. – become far more important.

    It seems that engineer and IT types often don’t get this. Perhaps in their fields, IQ and job ability continue to move in lockstep no matter the IQ level, but that’s not case in other professions.

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    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    "Anyone who’s worked in business (and politics is probably the same) can tell you that there’s a certain IQ threshold – ~115 to 120 let’s say – where anything past that just doesn’t add much. Other attributes – social skills, work ethic, willingness to take risks, etc. – become far more important.

    It seems that engineer and IT types often don’t get this. Perhaps in their fields, IQ and job ability continue to move in lockstep no matter the IQ level, but that’s not case in other professions."

    Interesting thought. One that ought to be explored more, but it won't be here I'm sure.

    Will say that I have OBSERVED a negative correlation between sheer brainpower and the amount of filthy lucre someone accumulates (well past a certain base intelligence).

    It could be geographic area, ie in other parts of the country you can leverage IQ into outsize returns in a way just not possible in Hooterville.

    But in my experience "Smart" people get bored with the whole process of getting over on someone in a real estate deal, as an example. They certainly aren't going to do it month after month, year after year, so they can rack up a 6 figure bank account after overcoming youthful poverty.
    , @syonredux

    Enough understanding to know to a DB when I see one.

    Anyone who’s worked in business (and politics is probably the same) can tell you that there’s a certain IQ threshold – ~115 to 120 let’s say – where anything past that just doesn’t add much. Other attributes – social skills, work ethic, willingness to take risks, etc. – become far more important.

    It seems that engineer and IT types often don’t get this. Perhaps in their fields, IQ and job ability continue to move in lockstep no matter the IQ level, but that’s not case in other professions.
     
    Other factors being equal, I would prefer to have a doctor with a 145 IQ over one with a 120 IQ....
    , @Cloudbuster
    The thing in question wasn't being successful in politics. There's ample evidence that you don't have to be very smart to do that.

    What was at question was understanding politics.

    That's a different thing.

    Politics is a complex system with innumerable interacting and often unknown variables. Raw brainpower can't help but be an asset when trying to analyze and understand it.
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  122. @Anonymous IV
    Worth noting: if you watch longer clips of this panel discussion, Pinker goes on to provide nice, safe center-left spins on the "scary facts" he relates. For instance, on black crime, he says that it used to be the Irish who had the reputation as violent drunkards, and look, they changed over time. No reason to think other groups won't change their behavior, too! Hey, if it happens, then great. But we're talking generations for that to happen. And it won't happen until there is a reckoning about black culture in America. People like Glenn Loury and John McWhorter try to get this started but it gets nowhere. And while we're talking about the here and now, not some imagined future, when I try to slightly redpill leftist friends of mine on race/crime stats, they reply that statistics can't be trusted, they are "complex," and further that the police patrol more heavily in black neighborhoods, so of course there is going to be more police reports filed. The problem isn't that non-leftists are assuming blacks will never get their act together, it's that we can't even talk honestly about what is going on today. Pinker bypasses that by talking about the future.

    For instance, on black crime, he says that it used to be the Irish who had the reputation as violent drunkards, and look, they changed over time.

    Aren’t the Irish still violent drunkards compared to WASPs (the people who were doing the complaining)?

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  123. @Simon in London
    Hopefully Pinker is in a position where he can't be Watsoned.

    Re his substantive point: I agree, without the insanity of the cultural Marxist college campuses and their totalitarian system of lies, there would not be any question of a conveyor belt from "The Bell Curve" to "14/88 GTK-RWN!!". Truth dies in darkness, which seems to be the US media motto these days, and people exposed to the truth after decades of lies - redpilling - sometimes react by embracing a different kind of darkness.

    Re his substantive point: I agree, without the insanity of the cultural Marxist college campuses and their totalitarian system of lies, there would not be any question of a conveyor belt from “The Bell Curve” to “14/88 GTK-RWN!!”.

    Except there is- Malthus. Red pill in regards to sex makes you realize low fertility is not due to prosperity, but how screwed up society is. In a healthy society you’d have a birth rate above replacement which means in the long run you are competing with every other group and ethnic groups part of your coalition that are below average contributors make you more likely to lose out and eventually be wiped out.

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  124. L Woods says:
    @Bleuteaux
    I'm amazed that there are still people who are allowed to verbalize these thoughts at an Ivy league school. I really am. Having gone to a second-rate university where a 30-year tenured professor was fired for a blog post opposing gay marriage. Or take Cornell West's opposition to TAC, moderate criticism of Obama. I assume it cannot be long before every single Harvard professor sounds identical to the worst internet troll out there.

    There actually seems to be more appreciation for free expression/thought at the elite academic level in my perception. The further down the ladder you go, the more you find militant also-rans acting out on their acute status anxiety. For my part, I’ve never really run into trouble with faculty for my (too openly expressed for my own good) views; it’s the 105 IQ lemming students that I don’t get along with.

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  125. Mr. Anon says:
    @syonredux

    However, I found Fight Club to be pretty good. I didn’t see a bunch of warmed over marxism in it, rather I noticed themes that would become common in the manosphere – men being tamed, neutered, robbed of their masculinity by a society that valued them only as compliant, docile consumers. Rather than seeing it as left-wing, I experienced it as being rather conservative, if only in a naive sort of way. Although I’m a boomer, I got it, however the movie really seemed to resonate with Gen Xers.
     
    The problem that I always had with Fight Club was its vaguely Gay sub-text. Needless to say, I wasn't surprised when I learned that Chuck Palahniuk (the author of the novel upon which the film was based) is Gay:

    Palahniuk came out as gay after an interview with Karen Valby, a reporter for Entertainment Weekly. Believing that he would be "outed" by Valby after confidentially referring to his male partner he openly declared his homosexuality on his website.[42]

    Palahniuk is now openly gay and, according to an interview with The Advocate in May 2008, he and his unnamed male partner live in a former church compound outside Vancouver, Washington.[43][44] He and his partner have been together for over 20 years, having met while Palahniuk was working at Freightliner. He told one interviewer, "We both had these very blue-collar lives, and now our lives are completely different."[45][46]

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Palahniuk#Personal_life

    The problem that I always had with Fight Club was its vaguely Gay sub-text.

    Why, next you’ll be telling me that Top Gun had a vaguely gay sub-text!

    Yes, there was that thread in Fight Club. It didn’t strike me when I first saw it, although in retrospect it’s more obvious, especially given that Palahniuk is homosexual.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    The problem that I always had with Fight Club was its vaguely Gay sub-text.

    Why, next you’ll be telling me that Top Gun had a vaguely gay sub-text!

    Yes, there was that thread in Fight Club. It didn’t strike me when I first saw it, although in retrospect it’s more obvious, especially given that Palahniuk is homosexual.
     
    It struck me when I first watched it. The film had a "leather-bar" fantasy aura, all cartoonish masculinity and ripped-abs.....
    , @Olorin
    Buddy I knew when the thing came out called it Tom Of Finland Club. Apt, however inelegant.
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  126. Mr. Anon says:
    @whorefinder
    Like I said, the Wachowski brothers (and they are brothers, you can't change genders) missed a golden opportunity to create one of the greatest trilogies of all time when they didn't show in the end that Neo's entire experience was itself inside the Matrix, and was merely the Matrix's way of allowing the rebellion naturally present in humans to come out and be identified and come to a conclusion that would satisfy the human mind. The triteness of Neo literally being "prophesied" as "The One" and the speech by the old white computer simulation in the second one would have been paid off infinitely better by such a revelation. It would have made it darker, to be sure, but would have made everything make so much more sense.

    Like I said, the Wachowski brothers (and they are brothers, you can’t change genders)

    Actually, there is no such thing as “gender” in a biological sense. The proper term is “sex”: it is a biological category, it is real, and – as you say – you can’t change it. “Gender” is a social construct pushed by the PoMo left.

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  127. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @DFH
    I'm curious to know if Pinker was thinking just about racial truths, or also those about Jews.

    Oh, Pinker is very aware of certain Jewish distinctions. Pinker wrote some years ago in an essay about supposed Jewish brilliance about how stupid goyim were in not using every last scrap of fabric while making ties in his gramp’s shop. Pinker being Pinker, he was careful to stress that it was his old-fashioned grandfather calling his workers “goyishe kop”, not the esteemed professor.
    I don’t know if it ever occurred to Pinker that it might have been a choice – not caring whether the grasping geezer could squeeze every last penny out of the material , rather than stupidity on his workers’ part.

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  128. @Simon Tugmutton
    As far as Cameron was concerned, the old adage springs to mind: "It takes one to know one."

    Luckily he is no longer in 10 Downing Street, though his successor is equally useless.

    I think she is a lot worse, she could have buried Labour, but she has revived them instead.

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  129. MarcB. says:

    To paraphrase Judge Judy, the Cultural Left has been “peeing on our legs and telling us it’s raining” for several generations, and now that it stinks to high heaven, it doesn’t take a brainiac to figure out, “hey, that’s not rain.” The weaponized anti-Western studies taught in public universities taught as far back as the 1980′s were sufficient to trigger enough cognitive dissonance in the average student to connect the dots. As someone who was Alt Right almost two decades before there was even a name for it, I am thankful for the highly intelligent, well-spoken, literate and brave public advocates on our side.

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  130. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous IV
    Worth noting: if you watch longer clips of this panel discussion, Pinker goes on to provide nice, safe center-left spins on the "scary facts" he relates. For instance, on black crime, he says that it used to be the Irish who had the reputation as violent drunkards, and look, they changed over time. No reason to think other groups won't change their behavior, too! Hey, if it happens, then great. But we're talking generations for that to happen. And it won't happen until there is a reckoning about black culture in America. People like Glenn Loury and John McWhorter try to get this started but it gets nowhere. And while we're talking about the here and now, not some imagined future, when I try to slightly redpill leftist friends of mine on race/crime stats, they reply that statistics can't be trusted, they are "complex," and further that the police patrol more heavily in black neighborhoods, so of course there is going to be more police reports filed. The problem isn't that non-leftists are assuming blacks will never get their act together, it's that we can't even talk honestly about what is going on today. Pinker bypasses that by talking about the future.

    For instance, on black crime, he says that it used to be the Irish who had the reputation as violent drunkards, and look, they changed over time. No reason to think other groups won’t change their behavior, too! Hey, if it happens, then great. But we’re talking generations for that to happen.

    I’ve always been really annoyed by this argument. You hear it a lot about Muslims. The basic idea is, we just have to put up with their terrorism and crime for a century, and then, after that, they’ll be just like us.

    But if they end up just like us, then what’s the point? We already are just like us. If we need more people just like us, why not just encourage people to have more kids? Then we can have a bunch more people like us without having to put up with their BS for a century.

    And that’s assuming it actually does work. There’s no guarantee it will, and if it doesn’t, then how are we supposed to put things back the way they were?

    Even as a best-case scenario, it’s still a net negative to bring these people here. But not one person in the media ever makes this point. It’s pretty obvious, too. People think it’s ridiculous to suggest some sort of conspiracy in the media to prevent people from saying these things, but how else do you explain the fact that nobody ever makes that point?

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    • Agree: Bill B.
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    For instance, on black crime, he says that it used to be the Irish who had the reputation as violent drunkards, and look, they changed over time. No reason to think other groups won’t change their behavior, too!

    The problem is, an alarming percentage of blacks didn't used to be more violent and undisciplined and now they're become less so, they've always been like that and do not seem to be improving. People who suggest that Muslims will assimilate should be asked why American Indians have not assimilated yet.
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  131. Wency says:
    @Inquiring Mind
    Some of my best friends are associated with the alt-right, but I wouldn't want my . . .

    Someone explain to me who this Steven Pinker is. He doesn't seem to be Jordan Peterson, who as far as I can tell has already slammed down a fistful of red pills. He seems to have one of those red pills caught in that fold in the back of his throat where he cannot cough it up but cannot swallow it either?

    My inclination is to categorize him with Scott Alexander as the “hereditarian left”. People who accept most of the facts of HBD, but not its conclusions. Primarily because they constitutionally prefer the aesthetic of leftism and want to be accepted socially within leftist society, but they’re too smart and interested in truth to totally reject what they see.

    Compare to the sort of Christian who seriously doubts most of the facts asserted by the religion but whose social network is centered on the church, enjoys attending services and being part of a community, and sincerely *wants* Christianity to be true on some level.

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  132. @Anonymous

    I never really liked it all that much myself, because I thought The Matrix was a ridiculous and totally PC movie
     
    Thanks--I thought I was the only one.

    I couldn’t even watch the whole thing because I’ve got some kind of typecasting thing going on.
    It was Ted from Bill and Ted, cowboy Curtis and the elf king to me. Plus I was already tired of cgi.

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  133. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @DFH
    I'm curious to know if Pinker was thinking just about racial truths, or also those about Jews.

    Jews are giving ground but still want whites to hate Muslims. It still fits their war plans. A middle east Muslim war and a race war in America. Whites Christians must defend Muslims as Gods children and the victims of Jew cruelty and torment.

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  134. 3g4me says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Many people are understandably frustrated by political correctness in the “regular” world, and so gravitate to the alt-right.
     
    It’s not just about political correctness, anymore than it’s a mere disagreement about manners. What brings people to the alt-right is the increasing physical reality of hostile diversity in all its forms in everyday life. It’s getting to the point where the ‘mainstream’ zeitgeist is revolting to a lot of white ‘normies.’ More and more regular white people are thinking, and increasingly saying: “Go be non-white, or go be a degenerate freak, somewhere else.” Many whites in general are waking up to the fact that it’s a matter of existence and survival:

    https://twitter.com/HarmlessYardDog/status/950106345981841408

    https://twitter.com/HarmlessYardDog/status/950107760745746432

    @63 Jennifer Ickham Errican: “More and more regular white people are thinking, and increasingly saying: “Go be non-white, or go be a degenerate freak, somewhere else.” Many whites in general are waking up to the fact that it’s a matter of existence and survival”

    In the event you may be unaware, Numinous is a Pajeet and his concerns and values do not include a future for White children.

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    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Jennifer Ickham Errican
     
    Eh, close enough.

    In the event you may be unaware, Numinous is a Pajeet
     
    I know. I was part of this past subthread (#479) started by you and him. Even if I don’t ‘convert’ opposition, it’s fun to see if they’ve got any real rhetorical conviction.
    , @Numinous
    What's a "Pajeet"?
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  135. helena says:
    @Inquiring Mind
    Some of my best friends are associated with the alt-right, but I wouldn't want my . . .

    Someone explain to me who this Steven Pinker is. He doesn't seem to be Jordan Peterson, who as far as I can tell has already slammed down a fistful of red pills. He seems to have one of those red pills caught in that fold in the back of his throat where he cannot cough it up but cannot swallow it either?

    He’s the leading Prof of Evol Psychol in the world and he walks the tightrope between sanity and salary with admirable poise and articulation, and success.

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  136. Forbes says:
    @PiltdownMan

    I’m amazed that there are still people who are allowed to verbalize these thoughts at an Ivy league school.
     
    Let's wait and see.

    Steven Pinker, who skates on what SJWs would call thin ice, may yet see his career cratered if he voices some of these sentiments in a high-profile situation. Larry Summers learned that the hard way—being President of Harvard University gave him no protection, and the climate is much worse now than when he was hounded out of office.

    Larry Summers’ tenure as a full professor remained intact, it’s just that he no longer serves as president of the University. You can call the incident shameful or embarrassing, but Harvard lives on with its reputation (however described).

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  137. Dmitry says:
    @AndrewR

    Westernizing Russian liberals have to spend time apologizing for the radicalism of the Western left, before they have any chance to sell their point of view to common sense people.
     
    This makes intuitive sense, but do you actually know this for a fact? Are you actually familiar with the rhetoric used by "Westernizing Russian liberals"? If so, how?

    Sorry to grill you, but the rhetoric of "Westernizing Russian liberals" seems like a very obscure and improbable thing for an American to be familiar with, and you present your claims without describing how you supposedly came upon this knowledge, so one is left with many questions.

    Edit: ok now I saw your name lol... I guess you probably left Russia as a child, given that your English skills probably exceed all living Dmitrys.

    Sorry to grill you, but the rhetoric of “Westernizing Russian liberals” seems like a very obscure and improbable thing for an American to be familiar with, and you present your claims without describing how you supposedly came upon this knowledge, so one is left with many questions.

    In my own views – I am (or, rather, was) very sympathetic to the Western model, and above all the American model.

    So it is sad for me – and for this reason not only as someone who lives in the West – to see the mainstream thinking in the occidental world being taken over by ideological cults (e.g. editorial positions of newspapers like the Washington Post and the New York Times appearing to be directed according to the latest trends in intersectional progressivism).

    It is something like the realization that Santa Claus does not exist (or even worse, that he used to exist, until his own family killed him).

    Liberals and Westernisers in Russia encompass a wide range of viewpoints. But certainly almost all these viewpoints have been critically undermined by the revelation that ‘Santa Claus doesn’t exist’.

    For an example translated into English of people experiencing this – please read at how Yulia Latynina reacted to the Obama administration’s appeasement of the ‘Arab spring’ phenomenon:

    https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/tougher-response-to-islamic-terrorism-is-needed-17876

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  138. syonredux says:
    @Mr. Anon

    The problem that I always had with Fight Club was its vaguely Gay sub-text.
     
    Why, next you'll be telling me that Top Gun had a vaguely gay sub-text!

    Yes, there was that thread in Fight Club. It didn't strike me when I first saw it, although in retrospect it's more obvious, especially given that Palahniuk is homosexual.

    The problem that I always had with Fight Club was its vaguely Gay sub-text.

    Why, next you’ll be telling me that Top Gun had a vaguely gay sub-text!

    Yes, there was that thread in Fight Club. It didn’t strike me when I first saw it, although in retrospect it’s more obvious, especially given that Palahniuk is homosexual.

    It struck me when I first watched it. The film had a “leather-bar” fantasy aura, all cartoonish masculinity and ripped-abs…..

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    • Replies: @anon
    Plus, there's the part where Edward Norton was sitting there watching Brad Pitt take a bath. That was also the scene where Pitt asks Norton if maybe another woman isn't really the solution they need.

    That was the part where my friends and I decided the homoeroticism wasn't just in our heads.

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  139. Forbes says:
    @whorefinder
    Pinker seems to be openly saying that the facts that the Alt-Right is saying is right, but they're just taking their conclusions to extremes.

    He's obviously speaking vaguely to avoid being pinned down on what "facts" that are verboten in public are actually true, and would likely deny any individual one as true if cross-examined and would run away from that statement if questioned too much.

    I'm interested in is what conclusions are too "extreme" based on said facts.

    He seems to be saying free speech shouldn't be shut down because it acts a a safety inoculation, but the Left looks at the power held by Leftists in China and North Korea and Venezuela and Cuba and goes, "Or we can just do what they do, ban the truth and destroy the lives of anyone speaking uncomfortable truths and live in power."

    Pinker's arguments assumes the Left isn't a bunch of power-hungry little nutcases, which is the major error.

    Pinker’s arguments assumes the Left isn’t a bunch of power-hungry little nutcases, which is the major error.

    Effectively, you’re faulting Pinker for NOT making an assumption. An assumption that is not necessary to draw the conclusions he makes.

    You’re entitled to disagree with him, of course. But then you’re making a different argument.

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    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    Except that isn't an assumption. We can test it. For example looking at different rates of mental illness, sexual deviancy or criminality by political ideology.
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  140. @The Z Blog
    It used to be that cognitive elites were careful to not speak of things like religion and politics around the commoners. Today, the commoners must take care to not speak about observable reality around the cognitive elites.

    They’re elite at abstraction, which is not the whole – or even the better part of – cognition.

    What we’re seeing is massive mismatch, and not just on account of race.

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  141. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @el duderino
    "...he’s so intellectually deft that he can say things without really saying them"

    But in this clip he does just come out and drop a lot of facts right there in the open.

    I honestly think it's his mousy demeanor that insulates him and makes it all the more shocking.

    Maybe that’s why he affects that fuzzy-bear hairstyle.

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  142. @Tim Howells
    That was a truncated version. For more context see this clip:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTiRnbNT5uE

    As you might expect from someone who viewed Kevin Macdonald's work as not rising to the level where it actually had to be read before it was rejected, Pinker proceeds to spell out why he finds us so "repellent" in exquisite detail. This is just a limited hangout for people who can't quite buy into the twisted absurdities being promulgated by our enemies, but who are totally on board with the agenda.

    But he’s not talking about us specifically here.

    More motte and bailey.

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  143. GU says:

    I’m posting this for the benefit of people who seem to be unfamiliar with Pinker. He’s been red-pilled for a while — he published “The Blank Slate” back in 2002 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blank_Slate).

    Pinker is a left-wing Jew with a cushy sinecure at Harvard and lucrative publishing deals. The fact that he drops red pills at all in today’s day and age is admirable—he’s got a lot to lose. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good folks.

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  144. @Jus' Sayin'...
    Pinker is rather straightforward about naming a few obvious major premises that might start some syllogisms. He is very shy about going on to add a minor premise and the appropriate conclusion:

    (1) Major Premise: Certain ethnic (sic) groups commit more crime than other ethnic (sic) groups
    Minor Premise: We would prefer that there be less crime in our society.
    Conclusion: We would prefer fewer members of high-crime ethnic (sic) groups in our society.

    Corollary: We would prefer not to admit Somalis, et al. into our society.

    And Pinker is not so crazy as to even consider mentioning racial (or to use his terminology, ethnic) group differences in the psychological capacity fully to adjust and contribute to our society, e.g., well known racial disparities in IQ and OCEAN, let alone discuss the policy implications of these.

    Pinker is a modern-day Galileo; brave enough to mention the truth but wise enough not to do so too loudly or in too public a manner. Watson is his Giordano Bruno, a condign example of what can happen to those who cry out obstreperously or effectively against the madness currently rampant within America's and Europe's ruling elites.

    I saw and heard him on CSPAN Book program run by Brian Lamb where he point-blank denied there was IQ difference for blacks when he was asked that direct question from Lamb. Of course, he looked like he had just taken a bite of an onion when he said it.

    I’ve not had cable for years and Pinker’s hair was not that gray. It was probably 8 or so years back. Well worth a look see if anyone can find it.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    I saw and heard him on CSPAN Book program run by Brian Lamb where he point-blank denied there was IQ difference for blacks when he was asked that direct question from Lamb. Of course, he looked like he had just taken a bite of an onion when he said it.
     
    I thought that Pinker's preferred mode for addressing the Black-White gap was to acknowledge its existence while stressing that it is probably the result of environmental factors. If memory serves, that's how he handled it in The Blank Slate.
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  145. @Bartolo
    Wow. Just wow. Obviously, he is not Alt-Right (sadly), but he can grant that we are not retarded monsters and say it publicly at such a venue. It takes cojones. Let this be a reminder for some alt-righters wo condemn Jews wholesale that so many of them are outstanding people in so many ways. Think Unz, Steven Miller, Jerry Seinfeld, Paul Gottfried, the late Larry Auster, Ilana Mercer... And in France, Zemmour, Finkielkraut, Elizabeth Lévy, Goldnadel... Let's call Jews out whenever necessary, without fear; but let's make a constant effort not to be hostile to the many, many upstanding and admirable people among them.

    Wow. Just wow. Obviously, he is not Alt-Right (sadly), but he can grant that we are not retarded monsters and say it publicly at such a venue. It takes cojones. Let this be a reminder for some alt-righters wo condemn Jews wholesale that so many of them are outstanding people in so many ways.

    Pinker makes it clear that scientific examination of Jewry/Judaism remains off-limits.

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  146. @Moses
    Pinker makes an important point, namely, that refusal to recognize or discuss, say, intrinsic sex differences, is pushing some people to question the entire narrative.

    He suggests that the left should recognize such differences while pushing its point of view that (undeniable) intrinsic gender or racial differences can be consistent with lefty PC & multikult beliefs

    He doesn't really address the elephant in the room, which is that given recognition of intrinsic differences the alt-right has an incredibly powerful argument which leads to its conclusions in the same way water flows down a hill.

    I suspect that if non-PC facts were acceptable to discuss in polite company then many (most?) people would arrive at similar alt-right conclusions about gender and race. That's what happened to me. I used to be 100% cuck before I started paying attention to patterns.

    My own journey reminds me of the Thomas Jefferson quote: "We are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead..." Well, the truth leads inexorably to conclusions abhorrent to the left. That's why they'll never allow frank and open discussion of facts they don't like. You saw it in Google's reaction to Damore's memo.

    The left will never be reasonable. They will double down and oppress until they can't.

    My own journey reminds me of the Thomas Jefferson quote: “We are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead…” Well, the truth leads inexorably to conclusions abhorrent to the left. That’s why they’ll never allow frank and open discussion of facts they don’t like. You saw it in Google’s reaction to Damore’s memo.

    The left will never be reasonable. They will double down and oppress until they can’t.

    Of course. Everything they believe is wrong, in both a factual and a moral sense.

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  147. @el duderino
    "...he’s so intellectually deft that he can say things without really saying them"

    But in this clip he does just come out and drop a lot of facts right there in the open.

    I honestly think it's his mousy demeanor that insulates him and makes it all the more shocking.

    I don’t think these facts are as controversial as you claim. Liberals don’t deny that blacks commit more crime for example. Where I part company with them is that they claim this is my fault and the fault of my culture, and both need to either be destroyed or remade, whereas I don’t think that and I don’t want that.

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  148. @Inquiring Mind
    Some of my best friends are associated with the alt-right, but I wouldn't want my . . .

    Someone explain to me who this Steven Pinker is. He doesn't seem to be Jordan Peterson, who as far as I can tell has already slammed down a fistful of red pills. He seems to have one of those red pills caught in that fold in the back of his throat where he cannot cough it up but cannot swallow it either?

    Pinker is well known, his book “The Blank Slate” is one of those books that will alter your outlook on a variety of things.

    It had that effect on my sister and me.

    The book has both right and left detractors.

    I notice that in the vid he notes male/female difference (his book discusses that too).

    On race he skates up to “race realism” but doesn’t go the whole way.

    He does not mention it in The Blank Slate either.

    The vilification of Charles Murray and others a powerful lesson.

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  149. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Cloudbuster
    Do trite movies generally inspire books by philosophers?

    Yes. There are philosophical works about Scooby Doo and Gilligan's Island.

    I see no correlation between

    A. Level of triteness.
    and
    B. Has inspired a work of philosophy.

    Fair enough.

    The Matrix wasn’t my favorite (and its sequels weren’t good except as action movies), but it was certainly original and influential.

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  150. syonredux says:
    @The preferred nomenclature is...
    I saw and heard him on CSPAN Book program run by Brian Lamb where he point-blank denied there was IQ difference for blacks when he was asked that direct question from Lamb. Of course, he looked like he had just taken a bite of an onion when he said it.

    I've not had cable for years and Pinker's hair was not that gray. It was probably 8 or so years back. Well worth a look see if anyone can find it.

    I saw and heard him on CSPAN Book program run by Brian Lamb where he point-blank denied there was IQ difference for blacks when he was asked that direct question from Lamb. Of course, he looked like he had just taken a bite of an onion when he said it.

    I thought that Pinker’s preferred mode for addressing the Black-White gap was to acknowledge its existence while stressing that it is probably the result of environmental factors. If memory serves, that’s how he handled it in The Blank Slate.

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    • Replies: @The preferred nomenclature is...
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0fMXm4iwwsQ


    I think this is it. As you can see it is a long interview. I don’t recall what the time stamp is on the Black IQ question. And I'm going on memory that is a little dated in regards to the exact wording of Lamb's question and Pinker's answer. A very fascinating 2.5 hours.

    On a related note (to go with the post on actual working hours at Google) Pinker goes into what a typical work day looks like for him.
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  151. @Bartolo
    Wow. Just wow. Obviously, he is not Alt-Right (sadly), but he can grant that we are not retarded monsters and say it publicly at such a venue. It takes cojones. Let this be a reminder for some alt-righters wo condemn Jews wholesale that so many of them are outstanding people in so many ways. Think Unz, Steven Miller, Jerry Seinfeld, Paul Gottfried, the late Larry Auster, Ilana Mercer... And in France, Zemmour, Finkielkraut, Elizabeth Lévy, Goldnadel... Let's call Jews out whenever necessary, without fear; but let's make a constant effort not to be hostile to the many, many upstanding and admirable people among them.

    Agree. Raving about Jews is one of the things stopping the alt-right allying itself with many “skeptics”, as they call them on YouTube.

    I’ve been immersing myself in this YouTube culture.

    In general, they trend younger than Steve’s readers (although I’m sure some of his readers know all about this.)

    A lot of them got a ringside seat at “GamerGate”, and whole swaths of young men who play video games got red pilled big time.

    One of those was my son.

    It was all about making video games politically correct and it was highly unpopular. But the companies are still at it.

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    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner

    Raving about Jews is one of the things stopping the alt-right allying itself with many “skeptics”, as they call them on YouTube.
     
    This is ironic given the massive over representation of Jews in the altright.
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  152. @Jus' Sayin'...
    Pinker is rather straightforward about naming a few obvious major premises that might start some syllogisms. He is very shy about going on to add a minor premise and the appropriate conclusion:

    (1) Major Premise: Certain ethnic (sic) groups commit more crime than other ethnic (sic) groups
    Minor Premise: We would prefer that there be less crime in our society.
    Conclusion: We would prefer fewer members of high-crime ethnic (sic) groups in our society.

    Corollary: We would prefer not to admit Somalis, et al. into our society.

    And Pinker is not so crazy as to even consider mentioning racial (or to use his terminology, ethnic) group differences in the psychological capacity fully to adjust and contribute to our society, e.g., well known racial disparities in IQ and OCEAN, let alone discuss the policy implications of these.

    Pinker is a modern-day Galileo; brave enough to mention the truth but wise enough not to do so too loudly or in too public a manner. Watson is his Giordano Bruno, a condign example of what can happen to those who cry out obstreperously or effectively against the madness currently rampant within America's and Europe's ruling elites.

    A good analogy. I can’t use the agree button so this will have to suffice.

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  153. A lot of them got a ringside seat at “GamerGate”, and whole swaths of young men who play video games got red pilled big time.

    Pretty sure that already happened at school/work. Unmistakably toxic environment for men now 10-35ish. I’m 48 and got enough that once I encountered the red pill it made perfect sense, but not enough to figure it out in situ.

    Getting better for those younger as reaction to the suck sets in.

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  154. biz says:
    @Moses
    Pinker makes an important point, namely, that refusal to recognize or discuss, say, intrinsic sex differences, is pushing some people to question the entire narrative.

    He suggests that the left should recognize such differences while pushing its point of view that (undeniable) intrinsic gender or racial differences can be consistent with lefty PC & multikult beliefs

    He doesn't really address the elephant in the room, which is that given recognition of intrinsic differences the alt-right has an incredibly powerful argument which leads to its conclusions in the same way water flows down a hill.

    I suspect that if non-PC facts were acceptable to discuss in polite company then many (most?) people would arrive at similar alt-right conclusions about gender and race. That's what happened to me. I used to be 100% cuck before I started paying attention to patterns.

    My own journey reminds me of the Thomas Jefferson quote: "We are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead..." Well, the truth leads inexorably to conclusions abhorrent to the left. That's why they'll never allow frank and open discussion of facts they don't like. You saw it in Google's reaction to Damore's memo.

    The left will never be reasonable. They will double down and oppress until they can't.

    I suspect that if non-PC facts were acceptable to discuss in polite company then many (most?) people would arrive at similar alt-right conclusions about gender and race.

    That’s quite a leap. As recently as the 80s or even the 90s most of today’s non-PC facts were widely accepted throughout society. Things like men and women on average have many different talents and goals, that some people are naturally smarter or more athletic or gifted in other ways than others, and that certain groups commit more crime. Basically the opposite of blank-slatism and news-denialsm was the default mode of thought. And yet that didn’t lead most mainstream people to want a ‘white ethnostate,’ or for their daughters to be outfitted with a chastity belt and kept out of college and married off to a 40 year old man and pregnant at 16, or to be driven to distraction by Jews in any way, or any of the other obsessions of the alt-right.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    So there was no sense of needing a white ethno-state in a time when we effectively had one? What a mystery!
    , @Moses

    As recently as the 80s or even the 90s most of today’s non-PC facts were widely accepted throughout society.
     
    Yes, because the truth wasn't actively, purposefully obfuscated and repressed then like it is today. That massive effort took time and lots of memory-holes. Today, speaking any number of non-PC facts that were common knowledge 40 years ago will get you fired posthaste.

    (Hell, recently I saw the unedited, original "National Lampoon's Vacation" from 1983 and was shocked at the "racist" content in one scene -- that scene alone would get every exec of the studio strung up and fired today. Needless to say the scene contained unvarnished truth, mined for comedy.)

    My grandmother (G-d rest her soul) knew all about gender and racial differences and wasn't shy about speaking her mind. And 1000 generations before her. My 60s generation parents? Wilfully ignorant, heads in the sand.

    If you haven't read Orwell's "1984" yet, do. Replacement of real fact with ideological "fact" is one powerful theme of the book. "The Party can make 2+2=5, or any number it wants."

    , @Samuel Skinner

    And yet that didn’t lead most mainstream people to want a ‘white ethnostate,’ or for their daughters to be outfitted with a chastity belt and kept out of college and married off to a 40 year old man and pregnant at 16, or to be driven to distraction by Jews in any way, or any of the other obsessions of the alt-right.
     
    Yes, and look where we are now. Believing in those facts and the attitude they had did not work; more extreme measures are required to keep society from imploding.
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  155. @AndrewR
    Communist subhumans on twitter are freaking tf out about Pinker straying off the rez. Bonus: subhuman with verified account (which, at this point, means twitter-endorsed) calls Steve Sailer a "white supremacist."

    https://mobile.twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/950784957827440640

    Lol if only

    Not very happy are they?

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  156. @anonymouslee
    we don't need boomers like pinker; boomers are a lost cause.

    what we--the people who created the alt right to clean up the mess left by boomers--need is the *next* generation of white boys. and we are getting them.

    Come off it. I can’t be the only boomer reading Steve.

    I remember the late 60s and 70s well. I didn’t agree with the radicals then and I dislike them even more today.

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  157. J.Ross says: • Website
    @biz

    I suspect that if non-PC facts were acceptable to discuss in polite company then many (most?) people would arrive at similar alt-right conclusions about gender and race.
     
    That's quite a leap. As recently as the 80s or even the 90s most of today's non-PC facts were widely accepted throughout society. Things like men and women on average have many different talents and goals, that some people are naturally smarter or more athletic or gifted in other ways than others, and that certain groups commit more crime. Basically the opposite of blank-slatism and news-denialsm was the default mode of thought. And yet that didn't lead most mainstream people to want a 'white ethnostate,' or for their daughters to be outfitted with a chastity belt and kept out of college and married off to a 40 year old man and pregnant at 16, or to be driven to distraction by Jews in any way, or any of the other obsessions of the alt-right.

    So there was no sense of needing a white ethno-state in a time when we effectively had one? What a mystery!

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    • Replies: @biz

    So there was no sense of needing a white ethno-state in a time when we effectively had one?
     
    Ridiculous. The 80s and 90s may have been the apogee of racial integration in America. Black musicians and athletes were our biggest pop-culture celebrities, the schools were the least racially segregated of any time before or since (as per many SJW complaints that iSteve has highlighted), TV shows like Miami Vice and movies like Lethal Weapon featured black and white buddy co-leads, blacks were elected to major mayorships and a governorship for the first time, everybody's dentist and lawyer were Jewish and they loved it, a Republican hero presided over an amnesty for three million mostly Mexican immigrants, etc. That is really far from the "white ethnostate" that alt-righters masturbate about.
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  158. @syonredux

    I saw and heard him on CSPAN Book program run by Brian Lamb where he point-blank denied there was IQ difference for blacks when he was asked that direct question from Lamb. Of course, he looked like he had just taken a bite of an onion when he said it.
     
    I thought that Pinker's preferred mode for addressing the Black-White gap was to acknowledge its existence while stressing that it is probably the result of environmental factors. If memory serves, that's how he handled it in The Blank Slate.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0fMXm4iwwsQ

    I think this is it. As you can see it is a long interview. I don’t recall what the time stamp is on the Black IQ question. And I’m going on memory that is a little dated in regards to the exact wording of Lamb’s question and Pinker’s answer. A very fascinating 2.5 hours.

    On a related note (to go with the post on actual working hours at Google) Pinker goes into what a typical work day looks like for him.

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  159. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Pericles
    Have you accepted Pepe in your heart yet?

    Those who attempt to put a collar and leash upon the neck of Kek will encounter a disappointing reality.

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  160. @PiltdownMan

    I’m amazed that there are still people who are allowed to verbalize these thoughts at an Ivy league school.
     
    Let's wait and see.

    Steven Pinker, who skates on what SJWs would call thin ice, may yet see his career cratered if he voices some of these sentiments in a high-profile situation. Larry Summers learned that the hard way—being President of Harvard University gave him no protection, and the climate is much worse now than when he was hounded out of office.

    He’s tenured so I don’t think they could fire him.

    But he would experience “shunning” by an enormous number of people. Think Watson, etc.

    And both of us are using pseudonyms, like most of the rest of Steve’s readers.

    A few are too afraid to even use a pseudonym and hide as anonymous.

    I criticize none of us for that. Some are worried about work (I’m retired), and being “shunned” is pretty bad.

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  161. Bill P says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Pinker cites long term studies of homicides rates in NYC and Philadelphia. Blacks have had the highest murder rate in both cities since the Civil War, although not in one of the cities before the Civil War.

    Along those lines, in my new column I mention how Iceland is having a meltdown over the murder rate doubling in one year, from 2 in 2016 to 4 in 2017. But a 1000 years ago, Iceland had a high murder rate according to the Eddas.

    There were a lot of parallels between the viking settler societies and the early American West. Anarchy combined with an honor-based culture results in high levels of violence.

    In fact, the societies were so similar that you could easily remake Njal’s Saga as a Western without changing the basics of the story much at all.

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    • Replies: @syonredux
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVsEty1LWLI
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  162. Olorin says:
    @Mr. Anon

    The problem that I always had with Fight Club was its vaguely Gay sub-text.
     
    Why, next you'll be telling me that Top Gun had a vaguely gay sub-text!

    Yes, there was that thread in Fight Club. It didn't strike me when I first saw it, although in retrospect it's more obvious, especially given that Palahniuk is homosexual.

    Buddy I knew when the thing came out called it Tom Of Finland Club. Apt, however inelegant.

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    • Agree: syonredux
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  163. Olorin says:
    @Yak-15
    Miller is bright, highly articulate and extremely energetic. I am glad we have him on our side. Spencer is utterly worthless and poisons our brand.

    Why should Miller threaten our gains by embracing odious trolls like Spencer?

    Spencer is utterly worthless and poisons our brand.

    The fact that you and others opposition troll any mention of him so fervently proves this wrong.

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    • Agree: AndrewR
    • Replies: @jb
    I don't follow. If -- for the sake of argument -- Spencer in actual fact "is utterly worthless and poisons our brand," then isn't "opposition trolling" him the right thing to do?
    , @Yak-15
    You mention Spencer and his past actions and it instantly destroys any credibility. People can be enlightened to HBD, but not through the caustic, poorly constructed totem that Spencer represents. He is personally unlikeable and not particularly bright. We have a lot of work to do and most everything Spencer does, ruins our progress.

    What is his upside other than pissing off leftists?

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  164. Sunbeam says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Enough understanding to know to a DB when I see one.

    Anyone who's worked in business (and politics is probably the same) can tell you that there's a certain IQ threshold - ~115 to 120 let's say - where anything past that just doesn't add much. Other attributes - social skills, work ethic, willingness to take risks, etc. - become far more important.

    It seems that engineer and IT types often don't get this. Perhaps in their fields, IQ and job ability continue to move in lockstep no matter the IQ level, but that's not case in other professions.

    “Anyone who’s worked in business (and politics is probably the same) can tell you that there’s a certain IQ threshold – ~115 to 120 let’s say – where anything past that just doesn’t add much. Other attributes – social skills, work ethic, willingness to take risks, etc. – become far more important.

    It seems that engineer and IT types often don’t get this. Perhaps in their fields, IQ and job ability continue to move in lockstep no matter the IQ level, but that’s not case in other professions.”

    Interesting thought. One that ought to be explored more, but it won’t be here I’m sure.

    Will say that I have OBSERVED a negative correlation between sheer brainpower and the amount of filthy lucre someone accumulates (well past a certain base intelligence).

    It could be geographic area, ie in other parts of the country you can leverage IQ into outsize returns in a way just not possible in Hooterville.

    But in my experience “Smart” people get bored with the whole process of getting over on someone in a real estate deal, as an example. They certainly aren’t going to do it month after month, year after year, so they can rack up a 6 figure bank account after overcoming youthful poverty.

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    • Replies: @Bill B.

    Anyone who’s worked in business (and politics is probably the same) can tell you that there’s a certain IQ threshold – ~115 to 120 let’s say – where anything past that just doesn’t add much.
     
    I once read somewhere that the driving force behind most successful societies was the quite-smart set of managers/team leaders in, IIRC, roughly the 110-120 IQ range. That, pace Charles Murray's The Bell Curve, it is not the few super intelligent individuals who ultimately make the difference in any community.

    This makes sense to me: a community's 'intelligence' is built up over time as succeeding generations learn what works and what should be discarded. Also, real creativity does not align cleanly with IQ.

    I worked for a decade in Hong Kong - sometimes noted as the highest IQ community in the world - and I was never overawed by the intellectual firepower of the business leaders and academics. But what did impress me was the general capability of the wider community. It was, for example, not unusual for an ordinary shopkeeper to turn out to have a sophisticated and subtle mind.

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  165. Olorin says:
    @anonymouslee
    we don't need boomers like pinker; boomers are a lost cause.

    what we--the people who created the alt right to clean up the mess left by boomers--need is the *next* generation of white boys. and we are getting them.

    You insufferable twit, it was boomers like PJ O’Rourke and Nick Bougas who kept alive the sacred American tradition of ethnic jibing and racist humor.

    Though Bougas is arguably Gen Jones, not boomer, being born in 1955. And O’Rourke is dead to me, having endorsed Clinton. (Gonzo my glutes.)

    It was boomers like RF Laird who wrote the Boomer Bible and skewered the generation incisively. Though RF was an instapunk, so really has no “generation,” having always existed outside marketing categories and media memes.

    Stop confusing marketing categories and 1960s media memes with actual people. The “next generation of white boys” never had an independent thought of your own. It was boomer pranksters and Generation Jones punks who fed you all that Chaos Magick stuff that you now frog-hop and kek around thinking you invented.

    Aulder pharts too. RAW was “silent generation,” e.g. Plus you owe a lot of what you call “your” thinking to guys born in the late 1800s. See: Evola, Julius.

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  166. @Brendan
    Pinker can do what he wants primarily because anyone who reads his books realizes quickly he’s a legit genius (and realizes other people realize this too) willing and capable of publicly shredding them.

    Pinker’s statement on male and female differences are interesting considering the class action suit filed by James Damore against Google.

    It would great if we could put other differences aside for the time being and focus on trying to get that one aspect on the road to respectability. Pinker isn’t alone this one.

    It isn’t the same as race differences. It would be easier to convince people on this aspect.

    To shut down the feminazis would a huge advance.

    Let’s try.

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  167. @AndrewR
    Sam Harris is virulently anti-white.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/samharrisorg/status/896793662050283521?lang=en

    Sam Harris is virulently anti-white

    Ok – not allof them agree on every important subject. But Sam Harris and Charles Murray and Jordan B. Peterson agree, that “The Bell Curve” is a major achievement. And they agree, that PC-talk genderism have – at least:become – are outright destructive right now.

    And to me, that indeed looks like a big leap forward.
    As I said: Now they relate to one another, and this might make the big difference (at least that’s what I sense. I do an awful lot of such discussions, I have to admit, and the cases, in which it was enough for my opponents to mention Hitler happen to be less and less. And it really helps, if you can cite big names like Steven Pinker.

    For me, Steve Sailer and Jordan B Peterson were the most interesting intellectuals last year. Steve Sailer, because he sees the traces and consequnces – often times right away. I was delighted about his James Damore covering, for example. And Peterson gets some of the basics right – like: He understands the fundamental difference between women and men (women being wired for unconditional love) – and he is able to follow his thoughts through without deminishing them while doing so, which means, he often times covers a big range of perspectives while talking about a certain subject – in other words: At times, he is (almost) perfect.

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  168. biz says:
    @J.Ross
    So there was no sense of needing a white ethno-state in a time when we effectively had one? What a mystery!

    So there was no sense of needing a white ethno-state in a time when we effectively had one?

    Ridiculous. The 80s and 90s may have been the apogee of racial integration in America. Black musicians and athletes were our biggest pop-culture celebrities, the schools were the least racially segregated of any time before or since (as per many SJW complaints that iSteve has highlighted), TV shows like Miami Vice and movies like Lethal Weapon featured black and white buddy co-leads, blacks were elected to major mayorships and a governorship for the first time, everybody’s dentist and lawyer were Jewish and they loved it, a Republican hero presided over an amnesty for three million mostly Mexican immigrants, etc. That is really far from the “white ethnostate” that alt-righters masturbate about.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    You are now arguing that white people in a white neighborhood watching Bill Cosby on TV constitutes a diversity comparable to anything anyone sees today. Pilpul doesn't win. It just proves that you don't take any of this seriously.
    , @Samuel Skinner
    Alot of people in the altright talk about 'pre-1965 demographics'; the 1990s were pretty close to that- 88.6% compared to 80.3%. Or talk about Israel as a Jewish ethnostate which is 75.6% Jewish.
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  169. Elli says:
    @Anonymous IV
    Worth noting: if you watch longer clips of this panel discussion, Pinker goes on to provide nice, safe center-left spins on the "scary facts" he relates. For instance, on black crime, he says that it used to be the Irish who had the reputation as violent drunkards, and look, they changed over time. No reason to think other groups won't change their behavior, too! Hey, if it happens, then great. But we're talking generations for that to happen. And it won't happen until there is a reckoning about black culture in America. People like Glenn Loury and John McWhorter try to get this started but it gets nowhere. And while we're talking about the here and now, not some imagined future, when I try to slightly redpill leftist friends of mine on race/crime stats, they reply that statistics can't be trusted, they are "complex," and further that the police patrol more heavily in black neighborhoods, so of course there is going to be more police reports filed. The problem isn't that non-leftists are assuming blacks will never get their act together, it's that we can't even talk honestly about what is going on today. Pinker bypasses that by talking about the future.

    In his books, Pinker has written about Europeans becoming less violent, an evolutionary process taking five centuries or so, as a result of violent men being removed from the gene pool by violence or execution or imprisonment, and playing nice or by the rules being a better way to get ahead and leave descendants in a mercantile or industrial society, to simplify a good deal. The bastard children of socially deviant women also had a very high mortality rate.

    Those selective pressures won’t work in the modern welfare state – the modern welfare state selects for the violent and promiscuous in the existing underclass.

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  170. biz says:
    @AndrewR
    Sam Harris is virulently anti-white.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/samharrisorg/status/896793662050283521?lang=en

    One tweet out of hundreds or thousands does not make him “virulently anti-white.”

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  171. syonredux says:
    @AndrewR
    Did he reject your amorous advances or what?

    Did he reject your amorous advances or what?

    Dear boy, my tastes are far too refined for the likes of Richard Spencer……

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  172. syonredux says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Enough understanding to know to a DB when I see one.

    Anyone who's worked in business (and politics is probably the same) can tell you that there's a certain IQ threshold - ~115 to 120 let's say - where anything past that just doesn't add much. Other attributes - social skills, work ethic, willingness to take risks, etc. - become far more important.

    It seems that engineer and IT types often don't get this. Perhaps in their fields, IQ and job ability continue to move in lockstep no matter the IQ level, but that's not case in other professions.

    Enough understanding to know to a DB when I see one.

    Anyone who’s worked in business (and politics is probably the same) can tell you that there’s a certain IQ threshold – ~115 to 120 let’s say – where anything past that just doesn’t add much. Other attributes – social skills, work ethic, willingness to take risks, etc. – become far more important.

    It seems that engineer and IT types often don’t get this. Perhaps in their fields, IQ and job ability continue to move in lockstep no matter the IQ level, but that’s not case in other professions.

    Other factors being equal, I would prefer to have a doctor with a 145 IQ over one with a 120 IQ….

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  173. syonredux says:
    @Bill P
    There were a lot of parallels between the viking settler societies and the early American West. Anarchy combined with an honor-based culture results in high levels of violence.

    In fact, the societies were so similar that you could easily remake Njal's Saga as a Western without changing the basics of the story much at all.

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  174. @YetAnotherAnon
    Pinker in 2006(? 2008?) edited the annual Edge edition/symposium in which 100 "leading thinkers" are asked to write on a theme.

    Pinker's question to them - "What is your dangerous idea? An idea you think about (not necessarily one you originated) that is dangerous not because it is assumed to be false, but because it might be true?"

    https://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/dangerous08/dangerous08_index.html

    "Do women, on average, have a different profile of aptitudes and emotions than men? Were the events in the Bible fictitious — not just the miracles, but those involving kings and empires? Has the state of the environment improved in the last fifty years? Do most victims of sexual abuse suffer no lifelong damage? Did Native Americans engage in genocide and despoil the landscape? Do men have an innate tendency to rape? Did the crime rate go down in the 1990s because two decades earlier poor women aborted children who would have been prone to violence? Are suicide terrorists well educated, mentally healthy, and morally driven? Are Ashkenazi Jews, on average, smarter than gentiles because their ancestors were selected for the shrewdness needed in money lending? Would the incidence of rape go down if prostitution were legalized? Do African American men have higher levels of testosterone, on average, than white men? Is morality just a product of the evolution of our brains, with no inherent reality? Would society be better off if heroin and cocaine were legalized? Is homosexuality the symptom of an infectious disease? Would it be consistent with our moral principles to give parents the option of euthanizing newborns with birth defects that would consign them to a life of pain and disability? Do parents have any effect on the character or intelligence of their children? Have religions killed a greater proportion of people than Nazism? Would damage from terrorism be reduced if the police could torture suspects in special circumstances? Would Africa have a better chance of rising out of poverty if it hosted more polluting industries or accepted Europe's nuclear waste? Is the average intelligence of Western nations declining because duller people are having more children than smarter people? Would unwanted children be better off if there were a market in adoption rights, with babies going to the highest bidder? Would lives be saved if we instituted a free market in organs for transplantation? Should people have the right to clone themselves, or enhance the genetic traits of their children?

    Perhaps you can feel your blood pressure rise as you read these questions. Perhaps you are appalled that people can so much as think such things. Perhaps you think less of me for bringing them up. These are dangerous ideas — ideas that are denounced not because they are self-evidently false, nor because they advocate harmful action, but because they are thought to corrode the prevailing moral order. "
     
    Pinker knows what's what, but takes care to cover his back

    "By "dangerous ideas" I don't have in mind harmful technologies, like those behind weapons of mass destruction, or evil ideologies, like those of racist, fascist, or other fanatical cults. I have in mind statements of fact or policy that are defended with evidence and argument by serious scientists and thinkers but which are felt to challenge the collective decency of an age. The ideas in the first paragraph, and the moral panic that each one of them has incited during the past quarter century, are examples. Writers who have raised ideas like these have been vilified, censored, fired, threatened, and in some cases physically assaulted. "
     
    Note the first "leading thinker" - John Horgan, who bravely puts his life on the line by suggesting humans may not have souls.

    Note the first “leading thinker” – John Horgan, who bravely puts his life on the line by suggesting humans may not have souls.

    Jep – this Edge isn’t that edgy – it’s rather round. I’d add John Brockman to the Confusianists.
    Pinker’s text is a bit on the defensive side stylistically, but ok.

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  175. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    The problem that I always had with Fight Club was its vaguely Gay sub-text.

    Why, next you’ll be telling me that Top Gun had a vaguely gay sub-text!

    Yes, there was that thread in Fight Club. It didn’t strike me when I first saw it, although in retrospect it’s more obvious, especially given that Palahniuk is homosexual.
     
    It struck me when I first watched it. The film had a "leather-bar" fantasy aura, all cartoonish masculinity and ripped-abs.....

    Plus, there’s the part where Edward Norton was sitting there watching Brad Pitt take a bath. That was also the scene where Pitt asks Norton if maybe another woman isn’t really the solution they need.

    That was the part where my friends and I decided the homoeroticism wasn’t just in our heads.

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  176. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Yak-15
    Many here are WAY too focused on the negatives of Jews. I personally know many great Jews whose opinions tend to fall on our side. Why must we alienate potential high quality allies?

    Of course, the ones I know who holds views antithetical to ours are excruciatingly obnoxious and use their verbal acuity to distract from their complete obtuseness and ignorance of red pill axioms.

    Of course, the ones I know who holds views antithetical to ours are excruciatingly obnoxious and use their verbal acuity to distract from their complete obtuseness and ignorance of red pill axioms.

    Have you considered the possibility that they’re not really obtuse or ignorant, but just dishonest?

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    • Replies: @Yak-15
    Honestly, the hyper-leftists who I have had my greatest, longest-standing debates with are true believers. Some people simply refuse to believe what goes against their religious convictions.

    There is no better lens to view modern liberalism than through that of religious extremist.
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  177. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @whorefinder

    Do trite movies generally inspire books by philosophers?
     
    Great argument. "It's brilliant because this guy says it was brilliant, because he wrote a book trying to piggyback on its fame to sell more!"

    Appeal to authority much?

    It’s tough to look back objectively on movies that are as influential as the Matrix, because they seem cliched in hindsight, but that hindsight isn’t accurate. Greatness and originality become cliche with time and repetition. A friend who liked Heat emailed me recently and said he’d watched Michael Mann’s ’80s Hannibal pic Manhunter and thought it was terrible. I disagreed, but could see the problem. It basically launched the profiler genre, one that’s been beaten to death. So, seen through the lens of all that came after, it seems cliched. But viewed on its own merits it’s great.
     
    Buddy, I saw it in theaters and said at the time it was well-made but predictable and trite. The only "innovative" part was the special effects, such as the famous done-to-death slow-mo-360-camera bullet scene. But special effects being innovative doesn't make the film itself innovative. That would make Avatar innovative, which it was not; it was just Pocahontas in Space with some really good computer animation.


    It wasn’t that easy to guess, first time around, but even if you had guessed it, did you guess how Fight Club would morph into Project Mayhem, or the climax? Probably not.
     
    It was very easy to guess the identity, and yes, the idea that he was building an army was predictable as well. Every movie that begins with assembling a group of disparate men and violently whipping them into shape ends with a mission to either steal something or attack something . Since Tyler was clearly a nut and they weren't exactly the high-tech/fine diamond connoisseurs,, it wasn't going to be a mission to re-enact The Thomas Crown Affair.


    They seemed original because they were. Being influenced by prior art doesn’t change that. It’s hard to think of a prior movie offhand that included all of the themes Fight Clubdid.
     
    Dear goodness you're sounding daft. There was nothing original about them beyond cosmetics. Everything was (sadly) predictable about them, beyond the narrator shooting himself to kill of Tyler and a few special effects. Merely because they were entertaining, well-done, rewatchable derivatives doesn't mean they weren't predictable derivatives. lots of people watch It's a Wonderful Life every year, but that doesn't make it less predictable to them.

    Dear goodness you’re sounding daft. There was nothing original about them beyond cosmetics.

    Okay, which films did The Matrix rip off?

    Which films did Fight Club rip off?

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  178. pyrrhus says:
    @Anonymous IV
    Worth noting: if you watch longer clips of this panel discussion, Pinker goes on to provide nice, safe center-left spins on the "scary facts" he relates. For instance, on black crime, he says that it used to be the Irish who had the reputation as violent drunkards, and look, they changed over time. No reason to think other groups won't change their behavior, too! Hey, if it happens, then great. But we're talking generations for that to happen. And it won't happen until there is a reckoning about black culture in America. People like Glenn Loury and John McWhorter try to get this started but it gets nowhere. And while we're talking about the here and now, not some imagined future, when I try to slightly redpill leftist friends of mine on race/crime stats, they reply that statistics can't be trusted, they are "complex," and further that the police patrol more heavily in black neighborhoods, so of course there is going to be more police reports filed. The problem isn't that non-leftists are assuming blacks will never get their act together, it's that we can't even talk honestly about what is going on today. Pinker bypasses that by talking about the future.

    Not to mention that the Irish to Blacks comparison fails because the Irish were much more intelligent than Blacks, and had a much higher literacy rate…Violence being directly correlated to stupidity, the Irish were never the problem that Blacks are in America.

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  179. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Enough understanding to know to a DB when I see one.

    Anyone who's worked in business (and politics is probably the same) can tell you that there's a certain IQ threshold - ~115 to 120 let's say - where anything past that just doesn't add much. Other attributes - social skills, work ethic, willingness to take risks, etc. - become far more important.

    It seems that engineer and IT types often don't get this. Perhaps in their fields, IQ and job ability continue to move in lockstep no matter the IQ level, but that's not case in other professions.

    The thing in question wasn’t being successful in politics. There’s ample evidence that you don’t have to be very smart to do that.

    What was at question was understanding politics.

    That’s a different thing.

    Politics is a complex system with innumerable interacting and often unknown variables. Raw brainpower can’t help but be an asset when trying to analyze and understand it.

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  180. J.Ross says: • Website
    @biz

    So there was no sense of needing a white ethno-state in a time when we effectively had one?
     
    Ridiculous. The 80s and 90s may have been the apogee of racial integration in America. Black musicians and athletes were our biggest pop-culture celebrities, the schools were the least racially segregated of any time before or since (as per many SJW complaints that iSteve has highlighted), TV shows like Miami Vice and movies like Lethal Weapon featured black and white buddy co-leads, blacks were elected to major mayorships and a governorship for the first time, everybody's dentist and lawyer were Jewish and they loved it, a Republican hero presided over an amnesty for three million mostly Mexican immigrants, etc. That is really far from the "white ethnostate" that alt-righters masturbate about.

    You are now arguing that white people in a white neighborhood watching Bill Cosby on TV constitutes a diversity comparable to anything anyone sees today. Pilpul doesn’t win. It just proves that you don’t take any of this seriously.

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  181. @Kevin C.

    The only way I see out of this is insane world is to keep exposing young men to the red pill till the dissident right reaches a critical mass (let’s say 3 million people). Then yes, we could declare a “national day of truth” and post the 21st century equivalent of Luther’s 95 theses on our office doors.
     
    Except that this whole '"critical mass" of Common People overturn the system' model of revolution is a total myth. Successful revolutions are always about a rival elite or arriviste proto-elite overthrowing the current elite, with the "angry young men" being their mere pawns. Authentic "peasant revolts" are handily crushed by the PTB. And yes, the "dissident right" is entirely devoid of any proto-elite, and is pure "peasant." 3 million, 3 billion, it doesn't matter, there is no "critical mass" which the Elites cannot crush as easily as the armored, mounted knights and lords of the Middle Ages crushed massively larger armies of revolting peasants bearing pitchforks and torches on a semi-regular basis.

    Waking people to the "red pill" truth doesn't, can't, and won't accomplish anything that really matters.

    You again! lzloozlololzlzllolz

    There are no invincible mounted knights— jets, tanks, heavy drones and choppers aren’t going to run themselves without Deplorables aka “peasants” keeping them going. Simpler rides can be captured and redeployed by whoever wants ‘em. Happens all the time to expensive hardware in war zones. Also, BigDog robots and weaponized drone swarms haven’t been proven in combat.

    There are however, a shit ton of ‘longbows’ and ‘arrows’ in the hands of modern American civilians. And the modern longbows are far easier to use than the ancient kind—one need not be a professional soldier to do what English bowmen did to French armor at Agincourt.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    There are however, a shit ton of ‘longbows’ and ‘arrows’ in the hands of modern American civilians. And the modern longbows are far easier to use than the ancient kind—one need not be a professional soldier to do what English bowmen did to French armor at Agincourt.
     
    You know why the peasants with the pitchforks lost? Because they were a disorganised undisciplined rabble.

    And you think a modern disorganised undisciplined rabble is going to do any better?
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  182. Redman says:
    @WR
    Unfortunately, we’re going to need a legion of guys like Pinker to steer the Leviathan in the right direction, and he’s pretty unique.

    I don't know how unique he is. I admit he is courageous. Probably he has enough money and fame to survive the backlash that will soon come to bite him. If I were to state the same undeniable facts of life in my workplace I would lose my job and would not be able to support my family. Regular guys don't have the luxury to speak truth to totalitarian leftist power, The left has virtually total control of the entertainment business, media, and academia (i.e. the channels through which folks form their opinions). Moreover, as someone said here not long ago, the powers that be have outsourced punishment of crimethinkers to 24/7 SJWs. They can single you out à la Alinsky (even if you are a nobody) and make your life miserable.

    The only way I see out of this is insane world is to keep exposing young men to the red pill till the dissident right reaches a critical mass (let's say 3 million people). Then yes, we could declare a "national day of truth" and post the 21st century equivalent of Luther's 95 theses on our office doors.

    Trudat. I didn’t lose my job, but I was passed over for partnership in my law firm for simply wearing a MAGA hat on the day of the election at a conference in New Orleans.

    This apparently offended a few snowflakes in my firm to the point that I had to be punished. Meanwhile, my clients were all Trump supporters who rejoiced in the unexpected Trump victory.

    Lawyers are the worst about trying to shut down crimespeak. But there’s no denying that the entire culture has dramatically changed among the elites in the Trump era.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    How do you know that being passed over was a consequence of your having worn the MAGA hat that day?

    What changes have you seen in the culture during the Trump era?

    , @Dieter Kief

    Lawyers are the worst about trying to shut down crimespeak.
     
    Lawyers are interested in societal conflict. A mentality of citizenship is therefor necessary to overcome this kind of professional bias. I'm always looking out for layers and jurists to show the citizenship-mentality. So - thanks for your post - and thanks WR, too.
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  183. @Kevin C.

    It’s getting to the point where the ‘mainstream’ zeitgeist is revolting to a lot of white ‘normies.’ More and more regular white people are thinking, and increasingly saying: “Go be non-white, or go be a degenerate freak, somewhere else.” Many whites in general are waking up to the fact that it’s a matter of existence and survival:
     
    So what? So what if more and more "whites in general are waking up"? Simply being aware of a problem does not constitute a solution, and is meaningless if those who have become aware have no solution within their reach. Because it doesn't matter how much us "regular white people" find the zeitgeist revolting and want the degenerate freaks and hostile foreign cultures to go elsewhere, there's nothing we can do about it.

    there’s nothing we can do about it

    Relax, bro. You’re gonna have a heart attack. :)

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  184. Redman says:
    @AndrewR
    Miller, besides being stereotypically obnoxious, is also a cuck who won't think twice about unceremoniously throwing people under the bus. Read what he said about Richard Spencer. I get the need to distance oneself from more radical individuals. Obama did it. Bill Clinton did it. It's politics. But one can distance oneself like a loyal, honorable man, or one can distance oneself like a dishonorable coward, and Miller chose the latter.

    It seems to me that Richard Spencer is exactly the type one would want to distance oneself from. I don’t see Spencer being a significant player in the future.

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  185. @3g4me
    @63 Jennifer Ickham Errican: "More and more regular white people are thinking, and increasingly saying: “Go be non-white, or go be a degenerate freak, somewhere else.” Many whites in general are waking up to the fact that it’s a matter of existence and survival"

    In the event you may be unaware, Numinous is a Pajeet and his concerns and values do not include a future for White children.

    Jennifer Ickham Errican

    Eh, close enough.

    In the event you may be unaware, Numinous is a Pajeet

    I know. I was part of this past subthread (#479) started by you and him. Even if I don’t ‘convert’ opposition, it’s fun to see if they’ve got any real rhetorical conviction.

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  186. @AndrewR
    Did he reject your amorous advances or what?

    He’s a dork.

    When someone is the broad brush your enemies use to tar you, it’s a pretty good clue that that someone is not good for your team.

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  187. @Cato

    "when they are exposed for the first time to truths that have not been
    voiced in college campuses or the New York Times or respectable
    media... it's a bacillus towards which they have no immunity and they
    are immediately infected with a sense of outrage that these truths are
    unsayable and no defense against taking them to conclusions which we
    would consider to be rather repellent conclusions."
     
    Pinker really understands the dynamic: you finally figure something out, that is completely different from what you were taught, and you discover that this is something totally taboo to express to others. So you cower down, keep it to yourself, never leak out a word, and when a politician appears who says some of this, even though you always considered him the most loathsome kind of attention whore, you end up voting for him, because you think that he, more than the others, has glimpsed the truth. Trump, of course, fooled us all, but I hope the real McCoy steps up in 2020.

    But it’s not just realising a truth.

    It’s then also realising that all of the institutions that you trusted have conspired to conceal this truth from you and lie to you about it.

    Followed by the realisation that, if they’re lying about this, then they are likely lying about other things as well.

    That’s when the illusions die, and reality comes flooding in.

    That’s the red pill.

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    • Replies: @Ian M.
    This is the ideal I suppose.

    However, it seems that a great many people who claim to have been 'red-pilled' simply focus on that first red pill, double down on it, and turn it into the Key to History, the One Grand Unifying Principle, the Standard by which all other standards are judged.

    They end up being just as deluded as they were before, just with a different set of delusions.

    In fact, I would say that the more someone uses the red pill jargon, the more likely this is to describe him. (Likewise, and relatedly, when someone uses 'cuck' unironically as a term of abuse, it's a pretty good sign that he is a 'meta-cuck' himself).
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  188. Svigor says:

    Why should Miller threaten our gains by embracing odious trolls like Spencer?

    Refusing to dance like a monkey for leftists isn’t embracing anything but yourself and your team.

    Agree. Raving about Jews is one of the things stopping the alt-right allying itself with many “skeptics”, as they call them on YouTube.

    I’ve been immersing myself in this YouTube culture.

    The so-called “skeptics” are full of shit. They’re fine with Jewish Supremacy (Zionism) but any other white advocacy is a no-no. Try find one who criticizes the Zionist elephant and the WN mouse in a proportional way; you can’t.

    or to be driven to distraction by Jews in any way, or any of the other obsessions of the alt-right.

    Yes, yes, we know: Jewish conservatives and race-realists are “obsessed” with black crime.

    There are however, a shit ton of ‘longbows’ and ‘arrows’ in the hands of modern American civilians. And the modern longbows are far easier to use than the ancient kind—one need not be a professional soldier to do what English bowmen did to French armor at Agincourt.

    The modern American Eeyore seems to operate under the assumption that White Americans will be less competent at 4th generation warfare than illiterate inbred Pashtun goatherds. If their argument was “less inclined to,” it would make sense.

    It seems to me that Richard Spencer is exactly the type one would let leftists use as an excuse to force one to dance like a monkey, for their benefit and amusement. I don’t see Spencer being a significant player in the future.

    FIFY.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    If their argument was “less inclined to,” it would make sense.
     
    This shit will go on as long as the above average Joe/Jane feels it is advantageous for him/her that it do so.

    The minute that calculation changes, it will stop. Anything that doesn't directly change that calculation is a waste of time/effort.
    , @Samuel Skinner

    The modern American Eeyore seems to operate under the assumption that White Americans will be less competent at 4th generation warfare than illiterate inbred Pashtun goatherds. If their argument was “less inclined to,” it would make sense.
     
    There is no such thing as 4th generation warfare. There is warfare where both sides are fighting to win and there is warfare where one side is being sabotaged by its leaders who don't want the military to gain status from victory. We have the latter. In the event of a civil war, this will not apply.
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  189. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Kevin C.

    The only way I see out of this is insane world is to keep exposing young men to the red pill till the dissident right reaches a critical mass (let’s say 3 million people). Then yes, we could declare a “national day of truth” and post the 21st century equivalent of Luther’s 95 theses on our office doors.
     
    Except that this whole '"critical mass" of Common People overturn the system' model of revolution is a total myth. Successful revolutions are always about a rival elite or arriviste proto-elite overthrowing the current elite, with the "angry young men" being their mere pawns. Authentic "peasant revolts" are handily crushed by the PTB. And yes, the "dissident right" is entirely devoid of any proto-elite, and is pure "peasant." 3 million, 3 billion, it doesn't matter, there is no "critical mass" which the Elites cannot crush as easily as the armored, mounted knights and lords of the Middle Ages crushed massively larger armies of revolting peasants bearing pitchforks and torches on a semi-regular basis.

    Waking people to the "red pill" truth doesn't, can't, and won't accomplish anything that really matters.

    Except that this whole ‘”critical mass” of Common People overturn the system’ model of revolution is a total myth. Successful revolutions are always about a rival elite or arriviste proto-elite overthrowing the current elite, with the “angry young men” being their mere pawns. Authentic “peasant revolts” are handily crushed by the PTB.

    Absolutely true, sadly.

    there is no “critical mass” which the Elites cannot crush as easily as the armored, mounted knights and lords of the Middle Ages crushed massively larger armies of revolting peasants bearing pitchforks and torches on a semi-regular basis.

    Agreed. And the PTB today are much better organised and have a much greater technological advantage over the masses than those medieval lords.

    Waking people to the “red pill” truth doesn’t, can’t, and won’t accomplish anything that really matters.

    The only chance would be a revolt within the elites. There’s not much sign of that happening.

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    • Agree: Ian M.
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  190. @Yak-15
    Many here are WAY too focused on the negatives of Jews. I personally know many great Jews whose opinions tend to fall on our side. Why must we alienate potential high quality allies?

    Of course, the ones I know who holds views antithetical to ours are excruciatingly obnoxious and use their verbal acuity to distract from their complete obtuseness and ignorance of red pill axioms.

    Many here are WAY too focused on the negatives of Jews. I personally know many great Jews whose opinions tend to fall on our side. Why must we alienate potential high quality allies?

    If, in a conflict between Whites and Jews, they don’t take our side, they’re not on our side.

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    • Replies: @Yak-15
    For many Jews there is no conflict and they are just as much on our side and American nativists as you and I. Don’t forget that many Jews signed up to die for many of our non-jew related wars.
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  191. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Jenner Ickham Errican
    You again! lzloozlololzlzllolz

    There are no invincible mounted knights— jets, tanks, heavy drones and choppers aren’t going to run themselves without Deplorables aka “peasants” keeping them going. Simpler rides can be captured and redeployed by whoever wants ‘em. Happens all the time to expensive hardware in war zones. Also, BigDog robots and weaponized drone swarms haven’t been proven in combat.

    There are however, a shit ton of ‘longbows’ and ‘arrows’ in the hands of modern American civilians. And the modern longbows are far easier to use than the ancient kind—one need not be a professional soldier to do what English bowmen did to French armor at Agincourt.

    There are however, a shit ton of ‘longbows’ and ‘arrows’ in the hands of modern American civilians. And the modern longbows are far easier to use than the ancient kind—one need not be a professional soldier to do what English bowmen did to French armor at Agincourt.

    You know why the peasants with the pitchforks lost? Because they were a disorganised undisciplined rabble.

    And you think a modern disorganised undisciplined rabble is going to do any better?

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    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    modern disorganised undisciplined rabble
     
    Lotta weak question-begging there. You remind me of the dumbass ‘bubble’-dwelling Hillary voters who were shocked when Trump won. No one they knew was voting for that embarrassing racist sexist reality show steak salesman. Hahaha whoops.
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  192. AndrewR says:
    @Opinionator
    Oh please. Spencer threw himself under the bus and ever since has been trying to drag as many other people as he can under with him. Spencer seems to be completely lacking in honor. A miserable human being.

    How so?

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  193. AndrewR says:
    @Yak-15
    Miller is bright, highly articulate and extremely energetic. I am glad we have him on our side. Spencer is utterly worthless and poisons our brand.

    Why should Miller threaten our gains by embracing odious trolls like Spencer?

    I never said Miller should “embrace” Spencer, but simply that Miller should disavow Spencer in an honorable, manly, politically useful way not the “ew, cooties” way he did. Miller should have said “Spencer’s beliefs are no more odious than leftist anti-white racists’ beliefs but since the system is anti-white, Spencer is demonized and anti-white racists are not.”

    But Miller, of course, is Hebrew controlled opposition, so don’t expect him to actually be useful.

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  194. Moses says:
    @biz

    I suspect that if non-PC facts were acceptable to discuss in polite company then many (most?) people would arrive at similar alt-right conclusions about gender and race.
     
    That's quite a leap. As recently as the 80s or even the 90s most of today's non-PC facts were widely accepted throughout society. Things like men and women on average have many different talents and goals, that some people are naturally smarter or more athletic or gifted in other ways than others, and that certain groups commit more crime. Basically the opposite of blank-slatism and news-denialsm was the default mode of thought. And yet that didn't lead most mainstream people to want a 'white ethnostate,' or for their daughters to be outfitted with a chastity belt and kept out of college and married off to a 40 year old man and pregnant at 16, or to be driven to distraction by Jews in any way, or any of the other obsessions of the alt-right.

    As recently as the 80s or even the 90s most of today’s non-PC facts were widely accepted throughout society.

    Yes, because the truth wasn’t actively, purposefully obfuscated and repressed then like it is today. That massive effort took time and lots of memory-holes. Today, speaking any number of non-PC facts that were common knowledge 40 years ago will get you fired posthaste.

    (Hell, recently I saw the unedited, original “National Lampoon’s Vacation” from 1983 and was shocked at the “racist” content in one scene — that scene alone would get every exec of the studio strung up and fired today. Needless to say the scene contained unvarnished truth, mined for comedy.)

    My grandmother (G-d rest her soul) knew all about gender and racial differences and wasn’t shy about speaking her mind. And 1000 generations before her. My 60s generation parents? Wilfully ignorant, heads in the sand.

    If you haven’t read Orwell’s “1984″ yet, do. Replacement of real fact with ideological “fact” is one powerful theme of the book. “The Party can make 2+2=5, or any number it wants.”

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  195. @Redman
    Trudat. I didn’t lose my job, but I was passed over for partnership in my law firm for simply wearing a MAGA hat on the day of the election at a conference in New Orleans.

    This apparently offended a few snowflakes in my firm to the point that I had to be punished. Meanwhile, my clients were all Trump supporters who rejoiced in the unexpected Trump victory.

    Lawyers are the worst about trying to shut down crimespeak. But there’s no denying that the entire culture has dramatically changed among the elites in the Trump era.

    How do you know that being passed over was a consequence of your having worn the MAGA hat that day?

    What changes have you seen in the culture during the Trump era?

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  196. @Redman
    Trudat. I didn’t lose my job, but I was passed over for partnership in my law firm for simply wearing a MAGA hat on the day of the election at a conference in New Orleans.

    This apparently offended a few snowflakes in my firm to the point that I had to be punished. Meanwhile, my clients were all Trump supporters who rejoiced in the unexpected Trump victory.

    Lawyers are the worst about trying to shut down crimespeak. But there’s no denying that the entire culture has dramatically changed among the elites in the Trump era.

    Lawyers are the worst about trying to shut down crimespeak.

    Lawyers are interested in societal conflict. A mentality of citizenship is therefor necessary to overcome this kind of professional bias. I’m always looking out for layers and jurists to show the citizenship-mentality. So – thanks for your post – and thanks WR, too.

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  197. @Forbes

    Pinker’s arguments assumes the Left isn’t a bunch of power-hungry little nutcases, which is the major error.
     
    Effectively, you're faulting Pinker for NOT making an assumption. An assumption that is not necessary to draw the conclusions he makes.

    You're entitled to disagree with him, of course. But then you're making a different argument.

    Except that isn’t an assumption. We can test it. For example looking at different rates of mental illness, sexual deviancy or criminality by political ideology.

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    • Replies: @Forbes
    I await the results of your test for power-hungry nutcases...
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  198. @Frau Katze
    Agree. Raving about Jews is one of the things stopping the alt-right allying itself with many “skeptics”, as they call them on YouTube.

    I’ve been immersing myself in this YouTube culture.

    In general, they trend younger than Steve’s readers (although I’m sure some of his readers know all about this.)

    A lot of them got a ringside seat at “GamerGate”, and whole swaths of young men who play video games got red pilled big time.

    One of those was my son.

    It was all about making video games politically correct and it was highly unpopular. But the companies are still at it.

    Raving about Jews is one of the things stopping the alt-right allying itself with many “skeptics”, as they call them on YouTube.

    This is ironic given the massive over representation of Jews in the altright.

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  199. @biz

    I suspect that if non-PC facts were acceptable to discuss in polite company then many (most?) people would arrive at similar alt-right conclusions about gender and race.
     
    That's quite a leap. As recently as the 80s or even the 90s most of today's non-PC facts were widely accepted throughout society. Things like men and women on average have many different talents and goals, that some people are naturally smarter or more athletic or gifted in other ways than others, and that certain groups commit more crime. Basically the opposite of blank-slatism and news-denialsm was the default mode of thought. And yet that didn't lead most mainstream people to want a 'white ethnostate,' or for their daughters to be outfitted with a chastity belt and kept out of college and married off to a 40 year old man and pregnant at 16, or to be driven to distraction by Jews in any way, or any of the other obsessions of the alt-right.

    And yet that didn’t lead most mainstream people to want a ‘white ethnostate,’ or for their daughters to be outfitted with a chastity belt and kept out of college and married off to a 40 year old man and pregnant at 16, or to be driven to distraction by Jews in any way, or any of the other obsessions of the alt-right.

    Yes, and look where we are now. Believing in those facts and the attitude they had did not work; more extreme measures are required to keep society from imploding.

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  200. @biz

    So there was no sense of needing a white ethno-state in a time when we effectively had one?
     
    Ridiculous. The 80s and 90s may have been the apogee of racial integration in America. Black musicians and athletes were our biggest pop-culture celebrities, the schools were the least racially segregated of any time before or since (as per many SJW complaints that iSteve has highlighted), TV shows like Miami Vice and movies like Lethal Weapon featured black and white buddy co-leads, blacks were elected to major mayorships and a governorship for the first time, everybody's dentist and lawyer were Jewish and they loved it, a Republican hero presided over an amnesty for three million mostly Mexican immigrants, etc. That is really far from the "white ethnostate" that alt-righters masturbate about.

    Alot of people in the altright talk about ‘pre-1965 demographics’; the 1990s were pretty close to that- 88.6% compared to 80.3%. Or talk about Israel as a Jewish ethnostate which is 75.6% Jewish.

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    • Replies: @Ian M.
    Although the 'pre-1965 demographics' was already the result of a period of massive deracination where various European ethnies lost their identities and unique cultures and merged into a more generic and culturally poorer 'white' ethny, one that was less immune to liberalism's offensives. 'Whiteness' as a primary identity just is the result of liberal deracination.

    What's done is done though, so we must of course resist attempts further to deracinate us, and oppose mass immigration, which will destroy whatever remaining cultural identity we have. But focusing on an 'ethnostate' as the ultimate goal or as the primary foundation of a successful society is an error borne of liberalism. It is not even a necessary condition, let alone a sufficient one, as there have been many successful states throughout history that were not ethnostates.

    , @J.Ross
    Israel is objectively and officially the Jewish state in law and name. That's their own term for it regardless of Palestinian birth rates. And it's something we are not allowed to want for ourselves even as a concept or a small rural town.
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  201. Numinous says:
    @3g4me
    @63 Jennifer Ickham Errican: "More and more regular white people are thinking, and increasingly saying: “Go be non-white, or go be a degenerate freak, somewhere else.” Many whites in general are waking up to the fact that it’s a matter of existence and survival"

    In the event you may be unaware, Numinous is a Pajeet and his concerns and values do not include a future for White children.

    What’s a “Pajeet”?

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  202. @dfordoom

    There are however, a shit ton of ‘longbows’ and ‘arrows’ in the hands of modern American civilians. And the modern longbows are far easier to use than the ancient kind—one need not be a professional soldier to do what English bowmen did to French armor at Agincourt.
     
    You know why the peasants with the pitchforks lost? Because they were a disorganised undisciplined rabble.

    And you think a modern disorganised undisciplined rabble is going to do any better?

    modern disorganised undisciplined rabble

    Lotta weak question-begging there. You remind me of the dumbass ‘bubble’-dwelling Hillary voters who were shocked when Trump won. No one they knew was voting for that embarrassing racist sexist reality show steak salesman. Hahaha whoops.

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  203. jb says:
    @Olorin

    Spencer is utterly worthless and poisons our brand.
     
    The fact that you and others opposition troll any mention of him so fervently proves this wrong.

    I don’t follow. If — for the sake of argument — Spencer in actual fact “is utterly worthless and poisons our brand,” then isn’t “opposition trolling” him the right thing to do?

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  204. Ian M. says:
    @Samuel Skinner
    Alot of people in the altright talk about 'pre-1965 demographics'; the 1990s were pretty close to that- 88.6% compared to 80.3%. Or talk about Israel as a Jewish ethnostate which is 75.6% Jewish.

    Although the ‘pre-1965 demographics’ was already the result of a period of massive deracination where various European ethnies lost their identities and unique cultures and merged into a more generic and culturally poorer ‘white’ ethny, one that was less immune to liberalism’s offensives. ‘Whiteness’ as a primary identity just is the result of liberal deracination.

    What’s done is done though, so we must of course resist attempts further to deracinate us, and oppose mass immigration, which will destroy whatever remaining cultural identity we have. But focusing on an ‘ethnostate’ as the ultimate goal or as the primary foundation of a successful society is an error borne of liberalism. It is not even a necessary condition, let alone a sufficient one, as there have been many successful states throughout history that were not ethnostates.

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    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner

    But focusing on an ‘ethnostate’ as the ultimate goal or as the primary foundation of a successful society is an error borne of liberalism.
     
    Well yes, but 'we have a mission and duty to conquer and rule the inferior races' is even less socially acceptable.

    It is not even a necessary condition, let alone a sufficient one, as there have been many successful states throughout history that were not ethnostates.
     
    Yes and they tend to disintegrate into their constituent ethnicities.
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  205. Ian M. says:
    @Stebbing Heuer
    But it's not just realising a truth.

    It's then also realising that all of the institutions that you trusted have conspired to conceal this truth from you and lie to you about it.

    Followed by the realisation that, if they're lying about this, then they are likely lying about other things as well.

    That's when the illusions die, and reality comes flooding in.

    That's the red pill.

    This is the ideal I suppose.

    However, it seems that a great many people who claim to have been ‘red-pilled’ simply focus on that first red pill, double down on it, and turn it into the Key to History, the One Grand Unifying Principle, the Standard by which all other standards are judged.

    They end up being just as deluded as they were before, just with a different set of delusions.

    In fact, I would say that the more someone uses the red pill jargon, the more likely this is to describe him. (Likewise, and relatedly, when someone uses ‘cuck’ unironically as a term of abuse, it’s a pretty good sign that he is a ‘meta-cuck’ himself).

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  206. Plainman says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    Pinker in 2006(? 2008?) edited the annual Edge edition/symposium in which 100 "leading thinkers" are asked to write on a theme.

    Pinker's question to them - "What is your dangerous idea? An idea you think about (not necessarily one you originated) that is dangerous not because it is assumed to be false, but because it might be true?"

    https://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/dangerous08/dangerous08_index.html

    "Do women, on average, have a different profile of aptitudes and emotions than men? Were the events in the Bible fictitious — not just the miracles, but those involving kings and empires? Has the state of the environment improved in the last fifty years? Do most victims of sexual abuse suffer no lifelong damage? Did Native Americans engage in genocide and despoil the landscape? Do men have an innate tendency to rape? Did the crime rate go down in the 1990s because two decades earlier poor women aborted children who would have been prone to violence? Are suicide terrorists well educated, mentally healthy, and morally driven? Are Ashkenazi Jews, on average, smarter than gentiles because their ancestors were selected for the shrewdness needed in money lending? Would the incidence of rape go down if prostitution were legalized? Do African American men have higher levels of testosterone, on average, than white men? Is morality just a product of the evolution of our brains, with no inherent reality? Would society be better off if heroin and cocaine were legalized? Is homosexuality the symptom of an infectious disease? Would it be consistent with our moral principles to give parents the option of euthanizing newborns with birth defects that would consign them to a life of pain and disability? Do parents have any effect on the character or intelligence of their children? Have religions killed a greater proportion of people than Nazism? Would damage from terrorism be reduced if the police could torture suspects in special circumstances? Would Africa have a better chance of rising out of poverty if it hosted more polluting industries or accepted Europe's nuclear waste? Is the average intelligence of Western nations declining because duller people are having more children than smarter people? Would unwanted children be better off if there were a market in adoption rights, with babies going to the highest bidder? Would lives be saved if we instituted a free market in organs for transplantation? Should people have the right to clone themselves, or enhance the genetic traits of their children?

    Perhaps you can feel your blood pressure rise as you read these questions. Perhaps you are appalled that people can so much as think such things. Perhaps you think less of me for bringing them up. These are dangerous ideas — ideas that are denounced not because they are self-evidently false, nor because they advocate harmful action, but because they are thought to corrode the prevailing moral order. "
     
    Pinker knows what's what, but takes care to cover his back

    "By "dangerous ideas" I don't have in mind harmful technologies, like those behind weapons of mass destruction, or evil ideologies, like those of racist, fascist, or other fanatical cults. I have in mind statements of fact or policy that are defended with evidence and argument by serious scientists and thinkers but which are felt to challenge the collective decency of an age. The ideas in the first paragraph, and the moral panic that each one of them has incited during the past quarter century, are examples. Writers who have raised ideas like these have been vilified, censored, fired, threatened, and in some cases physically assaulted. "
     
    Note the first "leading thinker" - John Horgan, who bravely puts his life on the line by suggesting humans may not have souls.

    Why is Communism not included in the two references to Nazism?

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  207. midtown says:
    @AndrewR
    Can you please elaborate on what happened to the professor, or at least provide a citation? Your claim defies credulity.

    Yes, I am also interested, although it is well within the realm of possibility post Brendan Eich.

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  208. @Ian M.
    Although the 'pre-1965 demographics' was already the result of a period of massive deracination where various European ethnies lost their identities and unique cultures and merged into a more generic and culturally poorer 'white' ethny, one that was less immune to liberalism's offensives. 'Whiteness' as a primary identity just is the result of liberal deracination.

    What's done is done though, so we must of course resist attempts further to deracinate us, and oppose mass immigration, which will destroy whatever remaining cultural identity we have. But focusing on an 'ethnostate' as the ultimate goal or as the primary foundation of a successful society is an error borne of liberalism. It is not even a necessary condition, let alone a sufficient one, as there have been many successful states throughout history that were not ethnostates.

    But focusing on an ‘ethnostate’ as the ultimate goal or as the primary foundation of a successful society is an error borne of liberalism.

    Well yes, but ‘we have a mission and duty to conquer and rule the inferior races’ is even less socially acceptable.

    It is not even a necessary condition, let alone a sufficient one, as there have been many successful states throughout history that were not ethnostates.

    Yes and they tend to disintegrate into their constituent ethnicities.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom


    It is not even a necessary condition, let alone a sufficient one, as there have been many successful states throughout history that were not ethnostates.
     
    Yes and they tend to disintegrate into their constituent ethnicities.
     
    Some of them lasted for many centuries. They actually have a fairly impressive track record for success.
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  209. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Samuel Skinner
    Alot of people in the altright talk about 'pre-1965 demographics'; the 1990s were pretty close to that- 88.6% compared to 80.3%. Or talk about Israel as a Jewish ethnostate which is 75.6% Jewish.

    Israel is objectively and officially the Jewish state in law and name. That’s their own term for it regardless of Palestinian birth rates. And it’s something we are not allowed to want for ourselves even as a concept or a small rural town.

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  210. @Svigor

    Why should Miller threaten our gains by embracing odious trolls like Spencer?
     
    Refusing to dance like a monkey for leftists isn't embracing anything but yourself and your team.

    Agree. Raving about Jews is one of the things stopping the alt-right allying itself with many “skeptics”, as they call them on YouTube.

    I’ve been immersing myself in this YouTube culture.
     
    The so-called "skeptics" are full of shit. They're fine with Jewish Supremacy (Zionism) but any other white advocacy is a no-no. Try find one who criticizes the Zionist elephant and the WN mouse in a proportional way; you can't.

    or to be driven to distraction by Jews in any way, or any of the other obsessions of the alt-right.
     
    Yes, yes, we know: Jewish conservatives and race-realists are "obsessed" with black crime.

    There are however, a shit ton of ‘longbows’ and ‘arrows’ in the hands of modern American civilians. And the modern longbows are far easier to use than the ancient kind—one need not be a professional soldier to do what English bowmen did to French armor at Agincourt.
     
    The modern American Eeyore seems to operate under the assumption that White Americans will be less competent at 4th generation warfare than illiterate inbred Pashtun goatherds. If their argument was "less inclined to," it would make sense.

    It seems to me that Richard Spencer is exactly the type one would let leftists use as an excuse to force one to dance like a monkey, for their benefit and amusement. I don’t see Spencer being a significant player in the future.
     
    FIFY.

    If their argument was “less inclined to,” it would make sense.

    This shit will go on as long as the above average Joe/Jane feels it is advantageous for him/her that it do so.

    The minute that calculation changes, it will stop. Anything that doesn’t directly change that calculation is a waste of time/effort.

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  211. @James Speaks
    His thesis is that suppressed truths un-suppress themselves with predictable results. I agree.

    Unfortunately, I will now have to devote a significant fraction of my retirement to becoming familiar with this guy's works.

    Check him out on YouTube. Every time Pinker comes out with a new book, he delivers an hour or hour-and-a-half long lecture on it. If you listen to the lecture, you’ll get all the important points. He’s a great speaker and always has interesting to say. I’ve never bothered to actually read his books.

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  212. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Samuel Skinner

    But focusing on an ‘ethnostate’ as the ultimate goal or as the primary foundation of a successful society is an error borne of liberalism.
     
    Well yes, but 'we have a mission and duty to conquer and rule the inferior races' is even less socially acceptable.

    It is not even a necessary condition, let alone a sufficient one, as there have been many successful states throughout history that were not ethnostates.
     
    Yes and they tend to disintegrate into their constituent ethnicities.

    It is not even a necessary condition, let alone a sufficient one, as there have been many successful states throughout history that were not ethnostates.

    Yes and they tend to disintegrate into their constituent ethnicities.

    Some of them lasted for many centuries. They actually have a fairly impressive track record for success.

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  213. @anon
    For instance, on black crime, he says that it used to be the Irish who had the reputation as violent drunkards, and look, they changed over time. No reason to think other groups won’t change their behavior, too! Hey, if it happens, then great. But we’re talking generations for that to happen.

    I've always been really annoyed by this argument. You hear it a lot about Muslims. The basic idea is, we just have to put up with their terrorism and crime for a century, and then, after that, they'll be just like us.

    But if they end up just like us, then what's the point? We already are just like us. If we need more people just like us, why not just encourage people to have more kids? Then we can have a bunch more people like us without having to put up with their BS for a century.

    And that's assuming it actually does work. There's no guarantee it will, and if it doesn't, then how are we supposed to put things back the way they were?

    Even as a best-case scenario, it's still a net negative to bring these people here. But not one person in the media ever makes this point. It's pretty obvious, too. People think it's ridiculous to suggest some sort of conspiracy in the media to prevent people from saying these things, but how else do you explain the fact that nobody ever makes that point?

    For instance, on black crime, he says that it used to be the Irish who had the reputation as violent drunkards, and look, they changed over time. No reason to think other groups won’t change their behavior, too!

    The problem is, an alarming percentage of blacks didn’t used to be more violent and undisciplined and now they’re become less so, they’ve always been like that and do not seem to be improving. People who suggest that Muslims will assimilate should be asked why American Indians have not assimilated yet.

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  214. @Svigor

    Why should Miller threaten our gains by embracing odious trolls like Spencer?
     
    Refusing to dance like a monkey for leftists isn't embracing anything but yourself and your team.

    Agree. Raving about Jews is one of the things stopping the alt-right allying itself with many “skeptics”, as they call them on YouTube.

    I’ve been immersing myself in this YouTube culture.
     
    The so-called "skeptics" are full of shit. They're fine with Jewish Supremacy (Zionism) but any other white advocacy is a no-no. Try find one who criticizes the Zionist elephant and the WN mouse in a proportional way; you can't.

    or to be driven to distraction by Jews in any way, or any of the other obsessions of the alt-right.
     
    Yes, yes, we know: Jewish conservatives and race-realists are "obsessed" with black crime.

    There are however, a shit ton of ‘longbows’ and ‘arrows’ in the hands of modern American civilians. And the modern longbows are far easier to use than the ancient kind—one need not be a professional soldier to do what English bowmen did to French armor at Agincourt.
     
    The modern American Eeyore seems to operate under the assumption that White Americans will be less competent at 4th generation warfare than illiterate inbred Pashtun goatherds. If their argument was "less inclined to," it would make sense.

    It seems to me that Richard Spencer is exactly the type one would let leftists use as an excuse to force one to dance like a monkey, for their benefit and amusement. I don’t see Spencer being a significant player in the future.
     
    FIFY.

    The modern American Eeyore seems to operate under the assumption that White Americans will be less competent at 4th generation warfare than illiterate inbred Pashtun goatherds. If their argument was “less inclined to,” it would make sense.

    There is no such thing as 4th generation warfare. There is warfare where both sides are fighting to win and there is warfare where one side is being sabotaged by its leaders who don’t want the military to gain status from victory. We have the latter. In the event of a civil war, this will not apply.

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  215. Forbes says:
    @Samuel Skinner
    Except that isn't an assumption. We can test it. For example looking at different rates of mental illness, sexual deviancy or criminality by political ideology.

    I await the results of your test for power-hungry nutcases…

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  216. Forbes says:
    @syonredux
    I've found that Pinker's The Blank Slate is quite effective at redpilling normies.

    I didn’t read it for the longest time because I thought Pinker was endorsing the Blank Slate, as opposed to debunking it…

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  217. Yak-15 says:
    @Olorin

    Spencer is utterly worthless and poisons our brand.
     
    The fact that you and others opposition troll any mention of him so fervently proves this wrong.

    You mention Spencer and his past actions and it instantly destroys any credibility. People can be enlightened to HBD, but not through the caustic, poorly constructed totem that Spencer represents. He is personally unlikeable and not particularly bright. We have a lot of work to do and most everything Spencer does, ruins our progress.

    What is his upside other than pissing off leftists?

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  218. Yak-15 says:
    @anon
    Of course, the ones I know who holds views antithetical to ours are excruciatingly obnoxious and use their verbal acuity to distract from their complete obtuseness and ignorance of red pill axioms.

    Have you considered the possibility that they're not really obtuse or ignorant, but just dishonest?

    Honestly, the hyper-leftists who I have had my greatest, longest-standing debates with are true believers. Some people simply refuse to believe what goes against their religious convictions.

    There is no better lens to view modern liberalism than through that of religious extremist.

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  219. Yak-15 says:
    @ben tillman

    Many here are WAY too focused on the negatives of Jews. I personally know many great Jews whose opinions tend to fall on our side. Why must we alienate potential high quality allies?
     
    If, in a conflict between Whites and Jews, they don't take our side, they're not on our side.

    For many Jews there is no conflict and they are just as much on our side and American nativists as you and I. Don’t forget that many Jews signed up to die for many of our non-jew related wars.

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  220. Bill B. says:
    @Sunbeam
    "Anyone who’s worked in business (and politics is probably the same) can tell you that there’s a certain IQ threshold – ~115 to 120 let’s say – where anything past that just doesn’t add much. Other attributes – social skills, work ethic, willingness to take risks, etc. – become far more important.

    It seems that engineer and IT types often don’t get this. Perhaps in their fields, IQ and job ability continue to move in lockstep no matter the IQ level, but that’s not case in other professions."

    Interesting thought. One that ought to be explored more, but it won't be here I'm sure.

    Will say that I have OBSERVED a negative correlation between sheer brainpower and the amount of filthy lucre someone accumulates (well past a certain base intelligence).

    It could be geographic area, ie in other parts of the country you can leverage IQ into outsize returns in a way just not possible in Hooterville.

    But in my experience "Smart" people get bored with the whole process of getting over on someone in a real estate deal, as an example. They certainly aren't going to do it month after month, year after year, so they can rack up a 6 figure bank account after overcoming youthful poverty.

    Anyone who’s worked in business (and politics is probably the same) can tell you that there’s a certain IQ threshold – ~115 to 120 let’s say – where anything past that just doesn’t add much.

    I once read somewhere that the driving force behind most successful societies was the quite-smart set of managers/team leaders in, IIRC, roughly the 110-120 IQ range. That, pace Charles Murray’s The Bell Curve, it is not the few super intelligent individuals who ultimately make the difference in any community.

    This makes sense to me: a community’s ‘intelligence’ is built up over time as succeeding generations learn what works and what should be discarded. Also, real creativity does not align cleanly with IQ.

    I worked for a decade in Hong Kong – sometimes noted as the highest IQ community in the world – and I was never overawed by the intellectual firepower of the business leaders and academics. But what did impress me was the general capability of the wider community. It was, for example, not unusual for an ordinary shopkeeper to turn out to have a sophisticated and subtle mind.

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    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    High IQ is often a pretty much disturbing thing. This might be a reason, why it was such an accomplishment in the middle ages, to bring monasteries and churches to flourish (=even to boom, at times).
    It was a way to regulate influence of high-IQ people, not least by reducing offspring from them via quotas of them being sent to the monasteries and churches, where they (usually) didn't have kids (nota bene: Men and women alike!).
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  221. @Bill B.

    Anyone who’s worked in business (and politics is probably the same) can tell you that there’s a certain IQ threshold – ~115 to 120 let’s say – where anything past that just doesn’t add much.
     
    I once read somewhere that the driving force behind most successful societies was the quite-smart set of managers/team leaders in, IIRC, roughly the 110-120 IQ range. That, pace Charles Murray's The Bell Curve, it is not the few super intelligent individuals who ultimately make the difference in any community.

    This makes sense to me: a community's 'intelligence' is built up over time as succeeding generations learn what works and what should be discarded. Also, real creativity does not align cleanly with IQ.

    I worked for a decade in Hong Kong - sometimes noted as the highest IQ community in the world - and I was never overawed by the intellectual firepower of the business leaders and academics. But what did impress me was the general capability of the wider community. It was, for example, not unusual for an ordinary shopkeeper to turn out to have a sophisticated and subtle mind.

    High IQ is often a pretty much disturbing thing. This might be a reason, why it was such an accomplishment in the middle ages, to bring monasteries and churches to flourish (=even to boom, at times).
    It was a way to regulate influence of high-IQ people, not least by reducing offspring from them via quotas of them being sent to the monasteries and churches, where they (usually) didn’t have kids (nota bene: Men and women alike!).

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  222. DJohn1 says:
    @Inquiring Mind
    Some of my best friends are associated with the alt-right, but I wouldn't want my . . .

    Someone explain to me who this Steven Pinker is. He doesn't seem to be Jordan Peterson, who as far as I can tell has already slammed down a fistful of red pills. He seems to have one of those red pills caught in that fold in the back of his throat where he cannot cough it up but cannot swallow it either?

    Pinker has not even taken the red pill to the point that it is lodged in the corner of his throat. Pinker simply acknowledges reality which all of the panel members here are willing to do. He is nothing special and even a bit mealy mouthed next to his co-panelists.

    The above clip is quite minimal. Watch the entire panel.

    Jump to 1:08:43. An audience member brings up the question of white identitarianism in a very benign way. When you have affirmative action for women and Blacks and Muslims, who is being disaffirmed? White males. Why can you celebrate Black Power and LGBTQ Power but White Power is an invocation of racism?

    Note especially how the entire panel dodges the question. They look down, they look aside, the abomination is among them none among the faithful may acknowledge the abomination. The woman takes the hit for the team and gives the most minimal possible response simply because the question was too provocative not to respond to.

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  223. @utu
    Were Wachowski brothers (sisters) influenced by The Futurological Congress of S. Lem (1971)?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Futurological_Congress
    Trottelreiner explains, "mascon" derives from mask, masquerade, mascara: "By introducing properly prepared mascons to the brain, one can mask any object in the outside world behind a fictitious image—superimposed—and with such dexterity, that the psychemasconated subject cannot tell which of his perceptions have been altered, and which have not. If but for a single instant you could see this world of ours the way it really is—undoctored, unadulterated, uncensored—you would drop in your tracks!"

    The professor then gives Tichy a flask of "up'n'at'm, one of the vigilanimides, a powerful countersomniac and antipsychem agent. A derivative of dimethylethylhexabutylpeptopeyotine". With his first sip of up'n'at'm, Tichy watches as the gilded surroundings of the five-star restaurant they are in evaporates into a dingy concrete bunker, and his stuffed pheasant turns into "the most unappetizing gray-brown gruel, which stuck in globs to my tin — no longer silver — fork".

    But this first dose is just the beginning of Tichy's journey. He sees that people do not drive cars or ride in elevators, but they run in the streets and climb the walls of empty elevator shafts, which explains why everyone in this new world is so out of breath. Robots whip people in the street and protect order. Through successive doses of up'n'at'm, Tichy sees increasingly horrible visions of the world, climaxing in a frozen horrorscape where people sleep blissfully in the snow, and the police robots are revealed to be people who are convinced that they are robots. The frozen state of the world explains why he has always found the new world to be so cold.
     


    http://forum.lem.pl/index.php?topic=834.0
    It must be said that I haven’t so far read explicitly the link between the famous Matrix series by the Wachowski brothers and The Congress of Futurology. Though the reader will surely find references that seem to me more than evident, it seems that reviewers haven’t yet paid attention, and as far as I know, the Wachowski brothers have not stated the influence of this of Lem’s work in their films. This regards the book’s leitmotiv: a world in which reality is created by psychotropic drugs, as the real world has become unbearable (I must say that as horrible as the real world created by the Wachowski brothers might be, It isn’t nearly as awful as the one described by Lem).
     

    https://www.challengingdestiny.com/reviews/futurological.htm
    When I originally reviewed this book, the movie The Matrix had not been released. When I re-read The Futurological Congress, I was struck by many parallels between this book and the world of that movie. The Wachowski Brothers have always admitted that they borrowed liberally from the genre of science fiction; in one possibly coincidental similarity, Ijon Tichy is offered a choice of two pills by his girlfriend, one pill to make him forget the relationship and the other to make him commit more fully. The colour of the pills may differ (Lem uses black and white pills, while the famous choice of pills in The Matrix was between blue and red), but the book and the movie share many of the same concerns about reality and the nature of the self against the background of such reality flux.
     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Futurological_Congress
    Trottelreiner explains, “mascon” derives from mask, masquerade, mascara: “By introducing properly prepared mascons to the brain, one can mask any object in the outside world behind a fictitious image …

    Another possible source for “mascon: mass concentrations in celestial masses:

    orbital motion – Why do “mascons” perturb orbits? – Physics Stack …

    https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/89872/why-do-mascons-perturb-orbits

    Dec 11, 2013 – It’s often worth considering an extreme example. Suppose, for instance, that we put virtually all of the mass of the moon into four extremely dense “mascons” located near the surface and at the vertices of a square (whose center would, therefore, necessarily coincide with the center of the moon.) …

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