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Pew: "How Americans Feel About Religious Groups"

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From a new Pew report, “How Americans Feel about Religious Groups,” we see that Jews are the most ethnocentric religious group as measured by self-regard on a 0 to 100 scale (89). In other words, although we constantly hear about Self-Hating Jews, there turns out to be less Self-Hatred (100-89=11) among Jews than among any other group (next least self-critical groups at 18 are Evangelical Christians and atheists). You know, it’s almost as if there’s some kind of a pattern in there somewhere …

And Jews feel even colder toward Evangelical Christians (34) than they do toward Muslims (35). In contrast, the non-Jews that feel most warmly toward Jews (69) are the Evangelical Christians.

Screenshot 2014-07-20 15.17.21

 

177 Comments to "Pew: "How Americans Feel About Religious Groups""

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  1. Truly disturbing but not unexpected. There are a number of things at play here – media bias against Evangelicals, Jews are Liberals first, etc – but none of those factors excuse the Jews. They better hope Evangelicals don’t fall in line with the Mainline Protestants. Nobody else really gives a fig.

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  2. Atheists have a more positive opinion of Islam than they do of Christianity, which does not surprise me because the majority of Atheists are politically correct left wingers.

    Most Atheists are not anti-religion in general, they are just anti-Christianity. That is why there is no large movement of Atheists in North America and Europe that are fighting to stop massive Muslim immigration into their countries.

    Atheists on average think that White Southerners in bible belt states like Mississippi and Tennessee are the real dangerous religious extremists that we should be worrying about and not the religious extremists in countries like Iran, Yemen, Palestine, and Saudi Arabia.

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  3. Always interesting to see how things shape-up:

    Jews feel most warmly towards Catholics (58) and Buddhists (61)

    I’m guessing that the warmth for Buddhism has a lot to do with its SWPL status in the US. Cf, for example, the warmth felt by atheists (69) and agnostics (70) for Buddhism.

    The high rating for Catholicism is a bit tougher to parse. Perhaps it has something to do with Catholicism having more of a tradition of orthopraxy than the various Protestant denominations? For that matter, I seem to recall reading that in Germany more Jews converted to Catholicism than to the Lutheran faith.

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  4. OT, Hi Steve,

    May be you or one of the commenters here at isteve could possibly educate me on what happened to the supposed democratically elected president/dictator of Ukraine Victor Yanukovich.

    A few months ago he was the supposed person non grata and world enemy number 1. The media and world elites hated him. The citizens of Ukraine raided his mansion displaying all the loot he stole.

    What ever happened to him? Is he alive? Was he just another elite pumped and dumped?

    Why isn’t he being blamed? If it was his fault 6 months ago, shouldn’t he still be blamed?

    All sarcasm aside, the pump and dump of Victor Yanukovich over the past year is an interesting study of media and government manufacturing events.

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  5. Protestantism promoted entrepreneurship and education among goys – Jews don’t like that. Also Martin Luther didn’t like Jews.

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  6. The Jews despise the Evangelicals for religious and historical reasons as well. Jesus is a problem and let’s say, a source of irritation for Jews. Evangelicals are tarred with the historical antisemitic acts of the Christian churches although much of that was perpetrated by Catholics.

    Most Evangelicals think they understand Jews by looking at the Old Testament. Not accurate. Modern American Jews are extremely secular in all aspects, except for a few Orthodox. Jews and Evangelicals have almost nothing spiritually or religiously in common. They both love Israel (well most of them) but for very different reasons.

    Catholics and especially mainline protestants have become irrelevant as they have sold their beliefs off and become secular liberals.

    And few seem to understand the true nature of modern Islam. I would rate Muslims a zero at best. They are driving out Christians in Mosul and literally, crucifying them in Syria. On top of the Death to America and a fundamental desire to replicate the 9/11 attacks.

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  7. It could be that the relatively warm feelings for Catholics from Jews come from familiarity, while the cool feelings for evangelicals come from a lack of familiarity and a false assumption of hostility. This NYT article about a trip to Las Vegas comes to mind.

    It could also be that the difficulty of converting to Catholicism or Buddhism and the ease of converting to evangelical sects play roles too, given the common Jewish guilt and fear associated with assimilation.

    The positive feelings for Jews by black protestants are a bit surprising though.

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  8. Many centuries from now, historians will be falling all over themselves trying to figure out the dynamic of evangelical Christians loving Jews yet Jews hating evangelical Christians.

    Also a bit curious is the big jump in the approval rating toward Muslims going from white Evangelical Protestants to black Protestants, the jump from 30% to 44%.

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  9. Highest levels of self-regard:

    Jews (89)

    White Evangelicals (82)

    Atheists (82)

    Catholics (80)

    Frankly, there’s not too much spread here in terms of self-regard. Everybody seems to like their co-religionists (or co-antireligionists, in the case of atheists).

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  10. “The positive feelings for Jews by black protestants are a bit surprising though.”
    Jews did come to the south to help with the civil rights movement.

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  11. “The high rating for Catholicism is a bit tougher to parse.”

    Not really. Ellis Island brethren. Their interests sometimes overlapped in the 20th century. Too many people (especially on the alt-right) blame the Jews exclusively for the 1965 immigration act, when, in reality, it was the Jews and the Irish and penitent northeastern Protestants who wanted it most. The Kennedys, for example.

    Plus, like blacks, the Irish weren’t economic competition for the Jews, which fostered good feels. The Irish were politically gifted and produced a number of writers who could compete with Jewish ones, but they weren’t obstacles in the business and financial worlds.

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  12. OT: was Dwight MacDonald Irish or Scotch-Irish? anybody know?

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  13. Dave Pinsen:”It could be that the relatively warm feelings for Catholics from Jews come from familiarity, while the cool feelings for evangelicals come from a lack of familiarity and a false assumption of hostility. This NYT article about a trip to Las Vegas comes to mind.”

    Could be. I seem to recall a section in BONFIRE OF THE VANITIES where one of the Jewish characters (was it the mayor?) muses over how weird things were outside of New York, with all of those Baptists and Methodists and Seventh-Day Adventists….

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  14. “Also a bit curious is the big jump in the approval rating toward Muslims going from white Evangelical Protestants to black Protestants, the jump from 30% to 44%.”

    Muslims are well liked in the African American community because a high percentage of Blacks have at least one family member who converted to Islam, especially if that family member did time in prison.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_to_Islam_in_U.S._prisons

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  15. Countenance:”Also a bit curious is the big jump in the approval rating toward Muslims going from white Evangelical Protestants to black Protestants, the jump from 30% to 44%.”

    Black Muslims. They play an important role in Black Identity politics (cf Malcolm X, etc). There is nothing comparable in terms of the White population in the USA.

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  16. Lowest levels of low self-regard:

    Jews 11%
    White Evangelicals 18%
    Atheists 18%
    Catholics 20%

    Although we hear a lot about Self-Hating Jews, they are apparently the rarest form of Self-Haters.

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  17. sergeant feels:”OT: was Dwight MacDonald Irish or Scotch-Irish? anybody know?”

    This is one of those instances where the fad for calling Jews Scotch/Scots-Irish becomes truly annoying.

    If you are asking if he was Jewish, the answer is no. He was very much not Jewish.

    As to his being Irish (I assume that you mean Irish Catholic), given his background (Phillips Exeter, Yale) I suspect not.

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  18. Mormons are the third most unpopular group after Atheists and Muslims. Whites of other faiths do not like Mormons because they believe all Mormons practice polygamy.

    Blacks do not like Mormons because they see it as an extremely White religion that looks down on Blacks.

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  19. Evangelicals get a bad rap for reaching out to others, while most groups keep to their own. I have found them to be very friendly and strongly pro-Israel. When things get tough for Israel, the mainline Protestants and Catholics stay away in droves, but the Evangelicals visit Israel and help the economy. A message to fellow Jews who fear being witnessed to by Evangelicals: Listen politely and if you disagree, tell them no thanks, nicely. They will not bite. Some of my best friends are Evangelicals.

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  20. Catholics have become a leading source of conservative intellectuals. Re Mainline Protestants, here’s another example of Tom Wolfe being prophetic in Bonfire of the Vanities (p.585 in the Picador paperback):

    [the mayor]“The Episcopalians have a black bishop?”
    “Oh, they’re very liberal,” said Sheldon, rolling his eyes. “It coulda just as easy been a woman or a Sandinista. Or a lesbian. Or a lesbian Sandinista.”

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  21. Catholics have become a leading source of conservative intellectuals. Re Mainline Protestants, here’s another example of Tom Wolfe being prophetic in Bonfire of the Vanities (p.585 in the Picador paperback):

    [the mayor]“The Episcopalians have a black bishop?”
    “Oh, they’re very liberal,” said Sheldon, rolling his eyes. “It coulda just as easy been a woman or a Sandinista. Or a lesbian. Or a lesbian Sandinista.”

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  22. Catholics have become a leading source of conservative intellectuals. Re Mainline Protestants, here’s another example of Tom Wolfe being prophetic in Bonfire of the Vanities (p.585 in the Picador paperback):

    [the mayor]“The Episcopalians have a black bishop?”
    “Oh, they’re very liberal,” said Sheldon, rolling his eyes. “It coulda just as easy been a woman or a Sandinista. Or a lesbian. Or a lesbian Sandinista.”

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  23. Anonymous
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    @syon:

    isn’t it funny that, in an article which mentions how Jews see Jews through particularly rosy lenses, here you are, arguing that Jews look rosier than the data says?

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  24. Sure, but by the late ’70s, blacks and the international Left had begun to side against Israel and Jews.

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  25. sergeant feels:”Not really. Ellis Island brethren. Their interests sometimes overlapped in the 20th century. Too many people (especially on the alt-right) blame the Jews exclusively for the 1965 immigration act, when, in reality, it was the Jews and the Irish and penitent northeastern Protestants who wanted it most. The Kennedys, for example.

    Plus, like blacks, the Irish weren’t economic competition for the Jews, which fostered good feels. The Irish were politically gifted and produced a number of writers who could compete with Jewish ones, but they weren’t obstacles in the business and financial worlds.”

    On the other hand, Jews of a certain generation (Harold Bloom, Phillip Roth, etc) love to talk about being attacked by anti-Semitic Irish and Italian kids when they were young.

    As for the Jewish-Catholic alliance, that was a real thing in the first half of the 20th century, a period when both groups were fighting against the Protestant hegemony. However, there was an interesting shift in the ’60s, as the WASP elite and the Jews experienced a rapprochement. All of a sudden, Catholic intellectuals like Michael Novak (THE RISE OF THE UNMELTABLE ETHNICS) began to see Jews and elite WASPS in a new light.

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  26. Anonymous:”isn’t it funny that, in an article which mentions how Jews see Jews through particularly rosy lenses, here you are, arguing that Jews look rosier than the data says?”

    Is that what I’m doing?

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  27. “If you are asking if [Dwight MacDonald] was Jewish, the answer is no. He was very much not Jewish.”

    I know this. The mammoth Companion to American Thought forthrightly calls him “one of the few non-Jews…among the coterie of New York Intellectuals who held center stage in mid-twentieth-century American intellectual life.” I was wondering if he descended from true-green, potato-eating Irish Catholics. It turns out his father was Scottish, and Dwight changed his father’s last name from “McDonald” to “MacDonald” because the more suggestively Scottish spelling had more class. I’m not sure where his mother’s family came from. I can only access his biography through Google Books snippet view.

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  28. Lex:”Protestantism promoted entrepreneurship and education among goys – Jews don’t like that.”

    Which would seem to indicate that Jewish ire should be reserved for Presbyterians, Congregationalists, etc, seeing as how those were the groups that really stressed education, entrepreneurship, etc. Evangelicals are a much lower performing group.

    Lex:”Also Martin Luther didn’t like Jews.”

    Which covers Lutherans, but leaves out those Churches that descend from John Calvin…

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  29. Hmm, atheists put evangelicals at 28 and Muslims at 44. What a bunch of dipsh*ts.

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  30. This is utterly unsurprising, given how class rends White people and is more powerful than race.

    For example, no one hates Jews more than Muslims, yet they feel towards Muslims the same way they feel towards Evangelicals. Once you understand that Jews are urbanite professionals aligned against rural Evangelicals, along with Catholics and Muslims and the rest, it makes sense.

    Evangelicals like Jews because they hate Muslims. Really, it is that simple. Evangelicals equate Jews in the US with Jews in Israel, and assume since Muslims hate them both they are allies. They also as noted read the Bible a lot and identify with the Jews in the Old Testament, and see themselves as “New Jews” explicitly. Which Jews don’t like …

    Interestingly enough, the most anti-Jewish feeling in Europe was among Catholic lands save Italy. Passion Plays blaming the Jews explicitly for Jesus crucifixion were common and inflammatory in Southern Germany, in France, in Spain, in Austria, and in Poland. The Irish were quite anti-Jewish, with de Valera openly siding with Nazi Germany to the approval of his countrymen. Catholics being non-Bible reading, take the Priests word for it that the Jews were the murderers of Jesus.

    Also, Jews tend to be hated by people insecure of being cheated by people smarter than they are. Catholics tend to fall into that category save Northern Italians (who “know” by looking around them they are the smartest — when you can see all that stuff created by Leonardo and Michaelangelo it does not tend to make you think your people are dullards easily cheated or fooled).

    Evangelicals “know” they are saved, all else is earthly details. So they tend not to worry much about Jews “getting one over on them” because for Evangelicals, that’s a mere minor detail for here on Earth. Buddhists I imagine have much the same orientation.

    As for self-hatred, that depends. The Brandeis University Listserv is filled with hatred for Israel, Jews, etc. by … Jewish Professors at Brandeis. Who are filled with self-regard.

    You have to distinguish the classic Woody Allen “Oy Vey I suck” version of self-hatred neurosis style with the explicit class-based rejection of one’s history, culture, tradition, values, and people in favor of … belonging to the hip/trendy international/globalist culture of the mixture of the WORST of East and West. These two types of self-loathing and self-hatred, one personal and individual, the other a narcissistic rejection of one’s identity in favor of a class belonging, are two different things.

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  31. “Protestantism promoted entrepreneurship and education among goys – Jews don’t like that. Also Martin Luther didn’t like Jews.”

    They didn’t ask anyone how they felt about mainline Protestants–evangelicals represent a later movement. It’s too bad, I would have liked to know.

    HannahKatz: yeah, which is eventually going to produce resentment among evangelicals. We’re burning bridges for no reason, and there is absolutely nothing I can do. I try to be nice to evangelicals I meet, they’re usually nice to me ;)

    “They better hope Evangelicals don’t fall in line with the Mainline Protestants.”

    Mainline Protestants seem only marginally less philo-Semitic (63 vs 69).

    Y’all should really go to the site and look at the data. Knowing a Jew doesn’t really change your opinion, unless you’re Black or Hispanic–then your thermometer drops quite a bit. Maybe they’re getting ripped off by Jewish landlords? It’s also amusing to note Blacks and Hispanics are substantially more anti-Semitic than Whites, which leads me to think the SPLC should shut up, now.

    What’s depressing is how much the whole thing is due to politics. Atheists love Muslims even though they’re a huge threat to secularism, because atheists are left-wing and think they’re oppressed. Jews hate evangelicals because they vote Republican, which is IMHO really retarded. You know, politics is only a small segment of someone’s being unless they’re a politician or high government official. Most evangelical Christians who don’t have a talk show would probably argue it’s possible to be a good person and a liberal at the same time (if the person is a Christian). I doubt most liberals would be so forgiving.

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  32. Syon,

    FYI, I believe MacDonald/McDonald is always a Scottish surname, regardless of spelling.

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  33. Most every Jew, even in the deepest New York, regularly experiences attempts by a Evangelicals to “save his soul”. The crazed preachers in the subways don’t help, either.

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  34. Whites of other faiths do not like Mormonism because it has the most obviously fraudulent of all origination stories (aside from Scientology) thereby calling attention to the fact that yes, people can be easily lulled into believing nonsense from a charlatan. Or put another way, if a charlatan like Jos Smith can pull something like this off it no longer becomes unimaginable that Dan Brown-like theories regarding Christianity are plausible. Mormonism is a bright beacon in the night pronouncing that even (especially) white Americans can fall victim to a religious con. It only adds fuel to fire that Mormons call themselves Christians.

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  35. I’m annoyed that ‘Egalitarianism” was left off the list of religions. That’s the one that bothers me most in my day to day life.

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  36. Anonymous
    says:
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    Perhaps there aren’t that many self-hating Jews, but they have a large impact. Otto Weininger and Bobby Fischer come to mind. Fischer was probably the son of the Hungarian-Jewish physicist Paul Nemenyi and Regina Wender Fischer and thus would have been fully Jewish by ancestry.

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  37. I’m guessing that the warmth for Buddhism has a lot to do with its SWPL status in the US.

    If you spend any time around Americans who practice Buddhism, you’ll notice that a high percentage are Jewish. I guess leaving Judaism for Buddhism seems like less of a betrayal than leaving it for Christianity. Probably more importantly, Buddhism has an intellectual appeal.

    Muslims are well liked in the African American community because a high percentage of Blacks have at least one family member who converted to Islam, especially if that family member did time in prison.
    As Mike Tyson said in the documentary about him, after he was sent to prison on questionable rape charges, “I hated America so I became a Muslim.” Islam is a great way of rejecting everything American.

    Blacks do not like Mormons because they see it as an extremely White religion that looks down on Blacks.
    From Wikipedia(but challenged there): “From 1849 to 1978, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) had a policy against ordaining black men to the priesthood, and forbidding black men and women from taking part in ceremonies in LDS temples. Associated with this policy were various statements by church leaders tying the policy to their view of scripture, and opining that black men and women had inherited the curse of Ham.”

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  38. Mormonism is a bright beacon in the night pronouncing that even (especially) white Americans can fall victim to a religious con. It only adds fuel to fire that Mormons call themselves Christians.

    The spite is compounded by the fact that Mormons generally behave in a far more Christian manner than the actual Christians who (rightly) regard Mormon theology as the work of a nut-job. That’s some serious cognitive dissonance.

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  39. Odd that people are asked their opinions of Catholics and Jews but not of White Protestants or simply Protestants in General.

    I assume its because people wouldn’t like the result.

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  40. “Most every Jew, even in the deepest New York, regularly experiences attempts by a Evangelicals to ‘save his soul’. The crazed preachers in the subways don’t help, either.”

    Oddly enough, pretty much everybody experiences evangelism in the New York subways, not just Jews. I cannot remember ever being pre-screened for Jewishness before they tried to save my soul.

    Even odder, Israeli PM Menachem Begin gave the prestigious Jabotinsky Award to Jerry Falwell–he was the first (and perhaps only) non-Jew to receive it. In my experience, Israeli Jews seem to be much more emotionally secure in their personal identities and beliefs.

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  41. I’m rather shocked no one has compared Jews to Atheists, Agnostics, Nothing in Particular.

    While Muslims are low on the affiliation scale, Jews like Muslims 35, one more than Evangelical Christians. But Athiests like Muslims 44, and like Evangelican Christians even less at 28. Agnostic like Muslims even more, at 47, but like Evangelical Christians at 37. And nothing in particular likes Muslims at 44, but Evangelical Christians only one point higher at 45.

    So let’s review. Atheists like Muslims 16 points higher than Evangelicals, Agnostices 10 points higher, and Nothing in Particular one point lower.

    How about Mormons?

    Jews like Mormons 48, that’s 14 points higher than Evangelicals. and 13 points higher than Muslims. Atheists are 39 for Mormons vs. 28 for Evangelical Christians, 11 points higher, and like Muslims at 44 which is 5 points higher than Mormons. You see similar effects for Agnostics, they don’t like at all Evangelicals, but like Mormons and Muslims the same. Nothing in Particular like Muslims, Mormons, and Evangelicals about the same really, maybe a one point lower for Muslims.

    And here is class in action.

    Mormons are generally middle class. Muslims the exotic, “thrill up the leg” people who fly planes into buildings (nothing excites the NPR crowd more than non Whites murdering Whites) and Evangelicals remind them of their icky cousins, parents, and grandparents who live in De Moines, or Fort Wayne, and other uncool places they escaped to find “freedom” and hook-up partners in NYC or LA or Boston or DC.

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  42. Pew: “How Americans Feel about Religious Groups” | Reaction Times
    says:
    • Website     Show CommentNext New Comment

    […] Source: Steve Sailer […]

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  43. The mainline Protestant denominations are solidly anti-Israel, the Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians, and others have all signed onto the BDS and are calling for a one-state, Palestinian majority solution. That is a stance at odds with their congregation but then the leadership of most Protestant Groups is hard left. Even Evangelicals endorse open borders through their leaders though the pews are filled with people who are opposed to it.

    Jews in America are radically different from Israeli Jews: the latter have universal military service save for the Ultra Orthodox and even they may now be forced to it. Many Jews in Israel live in suburbs or rural areas, advancement in Israel is usually through military service; that’s radically different from the class and socialization of American Jews which is universally urban, and even then limited to a few major cities (try finding Jews in say, Birmingham Alabama in any large number) and generally devoid of professions that while highly G-loaded are perceived as “prole:” Military, Petroleum Engineering, Geology, construction, etc.

    I agree with the blogger who noted America is still undergoing among Whites a civil war of sorts, it is class, East Coast Urban based, and overlain on top of religion. Religion is an affiliation marker, but not the main determinant. Rather IMHO it is class.

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  44. Does the survey say what Muslims think of other religions? My guess is that more conservative religions get better marks from them.

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  45. Which religion was missing from there? You have opinions of Hindu’s, but not of protestants or mainline protestants.(You only have evangelical Christians) But then I really shouldn’t expect that. Just as a survey on racism wouldn’t include anti-White bias, I shouldn’t expect this survey to recognize the possibility of catholic distaste for Protestants.

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  46. I think it has more to do with Jewish guys lusting after Catholic women.

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  47. ” Probably more importantly, Buddhism has an intellectual appeal.”

    I cannot fathom what that may be.

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  48. “Lowest levels of low self-regard:

    Jews 11%
    White Evangelicals 18%
    Atheists 18%
    Catholics 20%”

    This data doesn’t really show self regard as much as it shows regard of con-specifics. The two aren’t really the same. For example, many African Americans will readily voice a pretty negative opinion of ‘n*ggas’ while the data shows that most AA individuals have an unusually high opinion of themselves. That being said, though, most people take some of their self-esteem from the achievements of people in their ‘in-group’ so it does factor into self-regard.

    Something that I’m surprised you didn’t comment on, was how we don’t get to see how minorities feel about others. We get to see plenty of how whites feel about, say muslims, or buddhists (the vast majority of whom are Asian), but we usually don’t get to see the reverse. This is a common tactic seen in the liberal-run academia and media. We see data on how biased whites are towards blacks, but rarely see the reverse since it would put a monkey wrench into the liberal narrative.

    Interesting that in this case they at least allow for black protestants, but hey they’re protestants, so that makes them fair game.

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  49. Anonymous
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    “Is that what I’m doing?”

    It seemed to me like you were trivialising the degree to which the data speaks about how Jewish behavior is distinct from the behavior of the other 3 groups measured.

    In your quote:

    “Frankly, there’s not too much spread here in terms of self-regard. Everybody seems to like their co-religionists (or co-antireligionists, in the case of atheists).”

    Of course, everybody likes their own group. The question is one of relative degree. It appears that Jews are somewhere between half again and twice as likely to not break the mould of ethnocentrism than all of the other groups. And that Jews are clearly the outlier data point, compared to all the other groups. Would you agree?

    This is interesting, because there are two stereotypes about jewish behavior, which exist simultaneously, and are irreconcilable. One of them (the older one… a very old one) says that Jewish people stereotypically are extraordinarily tribalistic, extraordinarily unlikely to be critical of Jewish behavior themselves, extraordinarily unlikely to break ranks, and extraordinarily quick to dismiss criticism of Jewish behavior, rather than to engage in remorse. Even if it is fair. While another stereotype (the newer one) says that Jewish people tend to be “self-loathing”, “self-hating”, beat themselves up with ethnic guilt, and are hyper-critical of other Jews, a nebbish and apologetic attitude which outsiders exploit. More so, compared to other groups.

    Arguably, the former, older stereotype is voiced by critics of Jewish behavior, while the latter, newer stereotype is voiced and believed by defenders against such critique.

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  50. I think one reason why Jews love Buddhism is that it is one of those religions where you can believe in almost anything that you want. For example, some Buddhists believe in God or gods while others are atheists.

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  51. I love the Jews. I would give them a 90. Even the one who got all racist on me in law school, he did so in such a wiseguy, pedagogical kind of way I had to like him. “You ain’t so humble, Chinaman…” etc.

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  52. I perceive an inverse correlation between Jewish approval of Christian groups and those groups’ relative commitment to the authority of the Bible.

    Those who take the Bible seriously may very well take seriously the words of an ancient anti-Semite:

    In John 8:29, the Jews said to Jesus, “Abraham is our father.”

    Jesus replied, “If you were Abraham’s children, then you would do what Abraham did. As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. You are doing the works of your own father.”

    “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”

    Because of this passage and because of the New Testament accounts of the Jews demanding Christ’s crucifixion, the New Testament is unpopular among Jews. Catholics don’t talk about the Bible too much. Mainline Protestants talk about it sometimes, but always very politely. Evangelicals are the Bible thumpers that the Jews loathe.

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  53. Anonymous:”Of course, everybody likes their own group. The question is one of relative degree. It appears that Jews are somewhere between half again and twice as likely to not break the mould of ethnocentrism than all of the other groups. And that Jews are clearly the outlier data point, compared to all the other groups. Would you agree?”

    Oh, I agree that the Jews show more self-regard; I was just rather surprised by how small the difference was. I expected the Jews to be several orders of magnitude greater. I also expected the Christian groups, particularly the Evangelicals, to be be much more self-critical.

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  54. Joe Walker:”I think it has more to do with Jewish guys lusting after Catholic women.”

    Are Catholic girls better looking than Protestant ones? Well, perhaps an argument could be made for the superiority of Italians (cf such potent examples as Sophia Loren and Monica Bellucci), but I don’t see how Irish Catholic girls are any better looking than Swedish girls. And I certainly don’t see much difference between German Catholic and German Protestant girls….

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  55. Anonymous
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    That’s very fair.

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  56. The paradox is that Atheists, who are ostensibly committed to no particular doctrine, are probably the easiest people to profile – they are the far left side of the Democratic Party – the super-tolerant. Many are just Jews, who remain racial/cultural Jews, but who can’t justify the magical component of their religion.

    Perhaps more Christians should become Atheists so that the left loses their most effective tactic of appealing to Christian charity, then we can all be racial interest groups on a level playing field. No longer will we be vulnerable to hypocrisy accusations.

    I wouldn’t advise that an entire culture become atheistic if it seeks to continue, because reason always hits a wall when it comes to the “why is existence preferable to non-existence” argument – even atheists get flummoxed and quasi-mystical when that question is posed.

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  57. “Joe Walker:”I think it has more to do with Jewish guys lusting after Catholic women.”

    Are Catholic girls better looking than Protestant ones? Well, perhaps an argument could be made for the superiority of Italians (cf such potent examples as Sophia Loren and Monica Bellucci), but I don’t see how Irish Catholic girls are any better looking than Swedish girls. And I certainly don’t see much difference between German Catholic and German Protestant girls….”

    Most Italians are Catholic in name only. I am Italian and the last time I went to mass, Whitney Houston was still alive.

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  58. “Many are just Jews, who remain racial/cultural Jews, but who can’t justify the magical component of their religion.”

    That’s a good point. We don’t have data on the religious background of the self-professed atheists. How many were raised as Catholics, Jews, etc ? It would be quite informative to get that kind of information.

    And while were’re at it, why not a test that asks people to give their opinion of Mainline Protestants (Presbyterians, Episcopalians, etc). It would also be nice to see opinions on the subsets of Judaism (Orthodox, Reform, etc).

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  59. “And Jews feel even colder toward Evangelical Christians (34) than they do toward Muslims (35). In contrast, the non-Jews that feel most warmly toward Jews (69) are the Evangelical Christians.”

    How could you feel much respect for evangelical Christians when you see how much love they have for a group which despises them?

    Evangelical Christians just seem to be getting dumber and dumber. In theory I have respect for religion as a socially useful institution. But the way it’s exercised in practice just makes me cringe. They have ceased to stand up for themselves, and have backed themselves into a corner fighting science, especially evolution. They bend over backwards to adopt the most unrealistic expectations of their faith, which makes them extremely vulnerable to reverse psychology by the Left. And by divorcing Christianity from its culturally European roots, by focusing primarily on scripture, they have negated its socially useful purpose. There is no sense of nationalism left in Protestant Christianity.

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  60. The high rating for Catholicism is a bit tougher to parse.

    Most Jews in America have Catholic neighbors, so they have noticed that these people are not two-headed monsters. On the other hand what most Jews know of evangelical Christians is what they read in the NYT or see on television – that they’re stupid, crazy, inbred racists. For all their reputed cosmopolitanism, Jews are a fairly insular group whose knowledge of their fellow Americans has gaping chasms.

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  61. Jesus replied, “If you were Abraham’s children, then you would do what Abraham did. As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. You are doing the works of your own father.”

    “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”

    Because of this passage and because of the New Testament accounts of the Jews demanding Christ’s crucifixion, the New Testament is unpopular among Jews.

    If Jews actually think as you suggest, they’re even dumber than I thought.

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  62. “Whites of other faiths do not like Mormonism because it has the most obviously fraudulent of all origination stories (aside from Scientology) thereby calling attention to the fact that yes, people can be easily lulled into believing nonsense from a charlatan. Or put another way, if a charlatan like Jos Smith can pull something like this off it no longer becomes unimaginable that Dan Brown-like theories regarding Christianity are plausible. Mormonism is a bright beacon in the night pronouncing that even (especially) white Americans can fall victim to a religious con. It only adds fuel to fire that Mormons call themselves Christians.”

    The thing I like about Mormons is the vast majority of them do not support the Democratic Party. Barack Obama won only 20 percent of the Mormon vote in 2012.

    Obama did worst among Mormon voters than Mitt Romney did among Jewish, Asian, and Hispanic voters. I wonder what Barack’s current job approval rating is right now among Mormon voters ?

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  63. Too many people (especially on the alt-right) blame the Jews exclusively for the 1965 immigration act, when, in reality, it was the Jews and the Irish and penitent northeastern Protestants who wanted it most.

    No, the Irish were favored by the national origins system that had been in place, and in fact the 1965 Act made it harder for people to immigrate from Ireland. Yes, Ted Kennedy supported the Act, and so did Philip Hart, who also had some Irish blood in him, but Irish people generally, here or anywhere, did NOT.

    OTOH, Emmanuel Celler had been fighting the national origins system since his first term in the House in the 1920′s, a decade before Ted Kennedy had even been conceived. He was the most vigorous opponent in Congress of the National Origins Act of 1924 and spent the following 41 years patiently waiting for the moment to help foist multiculturalism on the U.S.

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  64. >>Chirs says:
    July 20, 2014 at 10:38 pm
    Does the survey say what Muslims think of other religions? My guess is that more conservative religions get better marks from them.<<

    My experience is that Muslim attitudes are the exact inverse of American Jewish attitudes: US Jews dislike evangelical Christians (who like Jews) and like atheists (who tend to be anti-Israel). Muslims typically have contempt for atheists/secularists (who claim to like Muslims) and have much less unfavourable attitudes to Christians, the more fundamentalist the better (who strongly dislike Islam).

    The Muslim attitude seems fairly rational – they (relatively) like the ones who seem most like them, the religious Christians, and dislike the ones who seem most different, the secularists & atheists. This seems true of US Jews also, who tend to be secular – they like the non-Jewish atheists, and dislike the religious evangelical Christians. That all makes reasonable sense.

    The seemingly irrational people are the non-Jewish whites:
    1. Secular non-Jewish whites like Islam & Muslims, often engaging in extravagant displays of Politically Correct dhimmitude.
    2. Evangelical Christians whites like Judaism & Jews, again often making extravagant displays of pro-Israel sentiment especially.
    In both cases a religious or ideological adherence trumps sentiment based on similarity/difference.

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  65. “I think it has more to do with Jewish guys lusting after Catholic women.

    Reminds me of this song.

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  66. “My experience is that Muslim attitudes are the exact inverse of American Jewish attitudes: US Jews dislike evangelical Christians (who like Jews) and like atheists (who tend to be anti-Israel). Muslims typically have contempt for atheists/secularists (who claim to like Muslims) and have much less unfavourable attitudes to Christians, the more fundamentalist the better (who strongly dislike Islam).

    The Muslim attitude seems fairly rational – they (relatively) like the ones who seem most like them, the religious Christians, and dislike the ones who seem most different, the secularists & atheists. This seems true of US Jews also, who tend to be secular – they like the non-Jewish atheists, and dislike the religious evangelical Christians. That all makes reasonable sense.

    The seemingly irrational people are the non-Jewish whites:
    1. Secular non-Jewish whites like Islam & Muslims, often engaging in extravagant displays of Politically Correct dhimmitude.
    2. Evangelical Christians whites like Judaism & Jews, again often making extravagant displays of pro-Israel sentiment especially.
    In both cases a religious or ideological adherence trumps sentiment based on similarity/difference.”

    You know what is extremely weird, Homosexuals who defend Islam. I remember when that fat ugly beast Rosie O’Donnell was on “The View”, when the topic of terrorism was brought up she would always defend Muslims from accusations that they are an intolerant religion that breeds extremists.

    The vast majority of Muslims have a very negative opinion of butch Lesbians like Rosie, so there is no mutual love from their side to Rosie.

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  67. If places like 4chan’s /pol/ are an indication of the next generation, the atheists and the protestants are going to be allies in the future, and both will dislike Jews.

    It is probably the same dynamic where Norwegians and Danes low to hate Swedes, as they used to be the arch enemy, but we don’t like it, and starts to defend the poor Swedes, when non-Nordics tries to criticize them. The English and the Germans also seem to have this dynamic.

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  68. Atheists on average think that White Southerners in bible belt states like Mississippi and Tennessee are the real dangerous religious extremists that we should be worrying about and not the religious extremists in countries like Iran, Yemen, Palestine, and Saudi Arabia.

    Most American atheists have more contact with White Southerners than with Muslims. That alone explains it.

    I think one reason why Jews love Buddhism is that it is one of those religions where you can believe in almost anything that you want. For example, some Buddhists believe in God or gods while others are atheists.

    Buddhism is a safe way for Jews to rebel without being traitors (e.g. converting to Christianity or Islam).

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  69. Of 10 highest IQ’s on earth, at least 8 are Theists, at least 6 are Christians).

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  70. “Anonymous says:

    Perhaps there aren’t that many self-hating Jews, but they have a large impact. Otto Weininger and Bobby Fischer come to mind.”

    One guy who would be unknown to anybody who hasn’t been enrolled in a graduate program in philosophy and another guy who disappeared from public view about thirty years ago or so.

    Yeah. Huge impact.

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  71. “Anonymous say:

    Even if it is fair. While another stereotype (the newer one) says that Jewish people tend to be “self-loathing”, “self-hating”, beat themselves up with ethnic guilt, and are hyper-critical of other Jews, a nebbish and apologetic attitude which outsiders exploit. More so, compared to other groups.”

    I am completely unfamiliar with this stereotype. I have not seen or heard it expressed by Jews, or by any gentiles. I think this “stereotype” exists nowhere but in your own mind.

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  72. That one is easy. Muslims to white protestants are Arabs and terrorists. Muslims to black Protestants can be Malcolm X.

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  73. Based on the regard that evangelicals have for Jews, and the lack of regard going the other way, I think a better term for evangelicals might be “suckers”.

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  74. Two thoughts –

    1) Those coexist bumper stickers are really all about sticking it to Christians.
    2) The delta between evangelical and mainline (pretty small) should tell the mainliners what being “lukewarm” and “oh, I’m not that kind of christian” get you.

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  75. I’ll go further and say that very few Americans have any real idea what Muslims are really like. Blacks tend to see them as noble, successful versions of themselves, in control of their destiny despite persecution. White liberals see them as gutsier versions of themselves. White conservatives see Muslims/Arabs as, well, hippies. Yes, hippies. Never mind that Muslims, especially the more extreme ones, are as far from being hippies as are white conservatives.

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  76. “Lowest levels of low self-regard”

    Jews are the only religious group on this survey that is also an ethnic group. Remember you wrote about the concentric circles of loyalty? Ethnicity is a tighter circle than religion.

    “Although we hear a lot about Self-Hating Jews, they are apparently the rarest form of Self-Haters.”

    Will self-hating Jews would identify as Jews on a survey like this?

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  77. “And Jews feel even colder toward Evangelical Christians (34) than they do toward Muslims (35). In contrast, the non-Jews that feel most warmly toward Jews (69) are the Evangelical Christians.”

    This is why Evangelicals are better called shabbosgoyim.

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  78. “And few seem to understand the true nature of modern Islam. I would rate Muslims a zero at best. They are driving out Christians in Mosul and literally, crucifying them in Syria. On top of the Death to America and a fundamental desire to replicate the 9/11 attacks.”

    “They” are a subset of the people you’re PMSing about you ignoramus.

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  79. The high rating for Catholicism is a bit tougher to parse.

    1) Latinos, traditionally strong non-white presence.
    2) Allies/useful idiots vs. the main threat, the Anglo-Saxon.

    Catholicism receives far more respect in film than Protestantism.

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  80. Also, centralization. Protestantism, like Judaism, is decentralized, and thus more of a threat/rival.

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  81. Anonymous
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    Although we hear a lot about Self-Hating Jews, they are apparently the rarest form of Self-Haters.

    Sorta like how we hear so much about Jewish intermarriage when they’re the least likely to intermarry. For the same reasons, white nationalists complain more about interracial marriage than whites do.

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  82. Although we hear a lot about Self-Hating Jews, they are apparently the rarest form of Self-Haters.

    Sorta like how we hear so much about Jewish intermarriage when they’re the least likely to intermarry. For the same reasons, white nationalists complain more about interracial marriage than whites do.

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  83. Sorta like how we hear so much about Jewish intermarriage when they’re the least likely to intermarry. For the same reasons, white nationalists complain more about interracial marriage than whites do.

    Oh no, Svigor, why did you just summon TUJ and those who do not control the media to the discussion?

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  84. The high rating for Catholicism is a bit tougher to parse.

    Svigor:”1) Latinos, traditionally strong non-white presence.”

    That sounds really unlikely.

    Svigor:”2) Allies/useful idiots vs. the main threat, the Anglo-Saxon.”

    The Catholic-Jewish alliance against Protestants was a real force in the first half of the 20th century, but it was undermined by the elite WASP-Jewish rapprochement in the 1960s.

    Svigor:”Catholicism receives far more respect in film than Protestantism.”

    Vs Evangelical Protestants, sure.

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  85. Here’s Razib Khan discussing a text that analyzes the Jewish-elite WASP rapprochement:

    In Catholicism and American Freedom: A History John T. McGreevy outlines the realignment in the 1950s of Jews with elite east coast Protestants in the culture wars against traditional Catholicism, a reversal of the historical white ethnic coalitions within the Democratic party which emerged in the wake of the Civil War.

    (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/04/it-doesnt-matter-if-theres-no-protestant-on-the-supreme-court/#.U81-YuNdWHg)

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  86. Svigor:”Sorta like how we hear so much about Jewish intermarriage when they’re the least likely to intermarry.”

    Well, this is uncharted territory for Jews. Exogamy has been quite rare for the last 1,000 years:

    “In the early 19th century, in some less modernised regions of the world, exogamy was extremely rare – less than a tenth of a percent (0.1%) of the Jews of Algeria, for example, practiced exogamy.[44] But in the early 20th century, even in most Germanic regions of central Europe[45] there were still only a mere 5% of Jews marrying non-Jews.[46][47][48] However, the picture was quite different in other locations; the figure was 18% for Berlin,[49] and during the same period, nearly half of all Jews in Australia intermarried.[50]

    In more recent times, rates of intermarriage have increased generally; for example, the US National Jewish Population Survey 2000-01 reports that, in the United States of America between 1996 and 2001, nearly half (47%) of Jews who had married during that time period had married non-Jewish partners.[51] The 1990 National Jewish Population Survey reported an intermarriage rate of 52 percent among American Jews.”

    Considering that Judaism was explicitly designed to make close relationships with Gentiles an impossibility, this is a shocking reversal.

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  87. (try finding Jews in say, Birmingham Alabama in any large number)

    Found them!: http://www.bjf.org/local-connection/shalom-birmingham.html

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  88. 1) Those coexist bumper stickers are really all about sticking it to Christians.

    Because Christians are the one group that refuses to “play ball”.

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  89. “Sorta like how we hear so much about Jewish intermarriage when they’re the least likely to intermarry. For the same reasons, white nationalists complain more about interracial marriage than whites do.”

    Actually White Gentiles are the group in the U.S who are least likely to intermarry, not Jews.

    Among all newlyweds, 9.4% of whites, 17.1% of blacks, 25.7% of Hispanics and 27.7% of Asians married someone whose race or ethnicity was different from their own.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States#2010_Pew_Research_Center_Report_.28U.S._Census_Bureau.E2.80.99s_2010_American_Community_Survey.29

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  90. The evangelical Christian attitude toward Jews isn’t irrational, as the subsets of Jews they are likely to meet (interfaith types; Israeli officials on trips to Israel) are friendly to them.

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  91. You must have never watched any TV shows or movies featuring Jewish characters in the last 40 years. It’s a pretty common character.

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  92. No one mistakes Muslims (with the possible exception of Sufis) for hippies – where are you getting this?

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  93. ADL-Al Qaeda alliance:

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/07/adls_interfaith_summer_camp_infiltrated_by_supporters_of_al_qaeda_terrorist.html

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  94. Evangelical Christians and neocons, whatever they may think of Jews, love Israel. One point is Biblical prophecy. Another is that Israel is a “normal” country filled with “normal” military-industrial types that love their country. Israel is a far cry from New York Jews. American neocons seem to forget about the bearded, draft-dodging ultra-orthodox community, though.

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  95. Most Jews in America have Catholic neighbors, so they have noticed that these people are not two-headed monsters. On the other hand what most Jews know of evangelical Christians is what they read in the NYT or see on television – that they’re stupid, crazy, inbred racists.

    Bingo. A typical Jew over a certain age in the urban Northeast has probably seen a Catholic Mass at least once or twice in his life, if only because he has attended the weddings and funerals of friends or co-workers.

    I would add, though, that while the stereotype of Evangelical anti-intellectualism is undoubtedly an exaggeration, it does, like most exaggerated stereotypes, rest on a foundation of truth. With American Jews statistically over-represented in intellectual professions- doctors, scientists, etc.- there’s always going to be a certain hostility on their part toward religions that adopt a hyper-literalist interpretation of scripture and privilege it over the findings of empirical research. Don’t get me wrong- I have personally known and respected a lot of very, very smart Evangelicals- but Liberty University still has a museum dedicated to proving that the Earth is only 4,000 years old. The existence of men like Gregor Mendel and Msgr. Georges Lemaître probably helps reassure eggheads that the Catholic Church isn’t out to get them.

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  96. Dave Pinsen says:

    @Reggin
    No one mistakes Muslims (with the possible exception of Sufis) for hippies – where are you getting this?

    Not consciously.

    I was referring to perceptions and deep subconscious attitudes of some conservatives.

    Perception #1: Both Muslims and hippies have long hair and beards, and are deficient in grooming.
    Reality: http://www.ogilvynoor.com/index.php/muslim-men-and-hair/#.U82VvmdOX5o

    Perception #2: Both Muslims and hippies wear weird and effeminate clothes.
    Reality: People wear clothes that are comfortable and practical for them. Did Jesus wear a white three-piece suit like a Southern Baptist preacher? Some basic research into traditional Middle Eastern garb is also in order, and for that matter, the French Foreign Legion hat which is a hybrid western cap and Arabic kepi.

    Perception #3: Both Muslims and hippies are terrorists.
    Reality: What can I say? No true Scotsman is a one-percenter?

    Perception #4: Both Muslims and hippies are junkies, pot-heads, and otherwise dope fiends.
    Reality: Hookahs are an Arab thing, not a Muslim item, and their use in Arab culture was exaggerated by Victorian escapist novels and Hollywood movies. It’s a clear case of projection. Also, just because Islam is anti-alcohol doesn’t make it pro-dope. Nobody seriously suggests that Mormons are dope fiends – but some people have that view of Muslims.

    Perception #5: Both Muslims and hippies are sex fiends, with their non-stop orgies.
    Reality: What orgies? More Victorian projection. Only kings had large harems, and they were surprisingly sedate places, and more for collecting women as status symbols.

    Perception #6: Both Muslims and hippies want to “shtup” your daughter.
    Reality: Muslims believe in arranged cousin marriages, and besides, your daughter is more interested in shtupping then marrying a doctor.

    Perception #7: Both Muslims and hippies need to be Christianized (i.e. Americanized).
    Reality: Even if Muslims were to convert en masse to Christianity, they would likely end up like Lebanese Christians – not Pentacostal or Southern Baptist skinheads. As for hippies, many of them emulate Jesus. What can be more Christian that that?

    “Givin`em haircuts, baths, and sendin’ ‘em off to military reform schools” is not the same as converting them to Christianity. And, ironically, is pretty much the way Saddam Hussein treated his subjects, having been inspired by a very Western ideology – secular fascism.

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  97. The Catholic Church has a millennia-long intellectual and scholastic tradition. The Church of England had one for 500 years almost as long.

    Most other Protestant faiths, such as the Lutheran and Calvinist ones, were anti-intellectual from the start. They were also much worse witch- and heretic-hunters than the Catholics.

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  98. People also don’t like Mormons because of their annoying, overly-sunny, cult-like personalities. They are similar to Jennifer Aniston’s co-worker in “Office Space”. The religion seems to have self-selected for this uncritical personality type willing to drink the kool-aid, since its beliefs are so laughable.

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  99. “Bingo. A typical Jew over a certain age in the urban Northeast has probably seen a Catholic Mass at least once or twice in his life, if only because he has attended the weddings and funerals of friends or co-workers.

    I would add, though, that while the stereotype of Evangelical anti-intellectualism is undoubtedly an exaggeration, it does, like most exaggerated stereotypes, rest on a foundation of truth. With American Jews statistically over-represented in intellectual professions- doctors, scientists, etc.- there’s always going to be a certain hostility on their part toward religions that adopt a hyper-literalist interpretation of scripture and privilege it over the findings of empirical research. Don’t get me wrong- I have personally known and respected a lot of very, very smart Evangelicals- but Liberty University still has a museum dedicated to proving that the Earth is only 4,000 years old. The existence of men like Gregor Mendel and Msgr. Georges Lemaître probably helps reassure eggheads that the Catholic Church isn’t out to get them.”

    You personally know Evangelicals who make over $100,000 a year right ? If the typical profession of a upper middle class Jew is a doctor for example, what is the typical profession of a upper middle class Evangelical ?

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  100. Reggin said, “Most other Protestant faiths, such as the Lutheran and Calvinist ones, were anti-intellectual from the start.”

    Three universities that Calvinists started: 1. Harvard (Congregationalists), 2. Yale (Congregationalists), 3. Princeton (Presbyterians).

    In the U.S., New England has always been the leading intellectual region, for better or worse. It started as a Congregationalist region. Unitarians mixed in later. It is now post-Protestant, for lack of a better description.

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  101. To be fair, Atheists in America deal with evangelicalism in their communities/local culture the most. Islam doesn’t really appear on their radar for the most part.

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  102. They ask muslims about others but not others about muslims? Seems they don’t want to know what anyone think of muslims.

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  103. “To be fair, Atheists in America deal with evangelicalism in their communities/local culture the most. Islam doesn’t really appear on their radar for the most part.”

    Liberal blue states like Michigan, New York, and Minnesota for example have a large Muslim population. Yet I bet the vast majority of Atheists in those states do not have a single negative word to say about Muslims.

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  104. I am sure if there was a poll done in The United Kingdom and France asking Atheists what they think of Muslims, I am sure the vast majority of the Atheists would still give Muslims a positive rating.

    Atheists tend to be left tards who are pro-multiculuralism and they see Islam as the epitome of all that is good about multiculturalism.

    Atheists see Christianity as the epitome of pure evil just like White privilege. If you ever go to a White privilege conference in Wisconsin, they do not only bash White people they also bash Christianity as well.

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  105. They ask muslims about others but not others about muslims?

    I believe you’ve mixed up the axes. It’s the Muslims (and Buddhists, Mormons, and Hindus) who are not asked how they feel about others, presumably because they are too few to poll in significant numbers.

    It’s the impressions that survey takers have of (non-Evangelical) Protestants, Agnostics and the Nothing-in-particular category that remain unmentioned.

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  106. A whopping 70 percent of Atheist voters in the U.S voted for Barack Obama in 2012. Most Atheists are enemies of White racial interests.

    http://gawker.com/5966968/atheists-love-barack-obama-a-whole-lot

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  107. “Reality: Hookahs are an Arab thing, not a Muslim item, and their use in Arab culture was exaggerated by Victorian escapist novels and Hollywood movies. It’s a clear case of projection. Also, just because Islam is anti-alcohol doesn’t make it pro-dope. Nobody seriously suggests that Mormons are dope fiends – but some people have that view of Muslims.”

    I doubt many Americans grasp that Arab and Muslim are not the same thing. Sure, you’ve got your Lebanese Christians and your Iranians and Indonesians and Pakistanis–but how many people know that?

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  108. Reggin:”Most other Protestant faiths, such as the Lutheran and Calvinist ones, were anti-intellectual from the start.”

    In terms of the Anglo Calvinist tradition, this is quite false. Puritan New England, for example, had the world’s highest literacy rates in the 17th century. Then there are all the universities founded by Calvinists: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc.

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  109. jefferson:”Liberal blue states like Michigan, New York, and Minnesota for example have a large Muslim population. Yet I bet the vast majority of Atheists in those states do not have a single negative word to say about Muslims.”

    Depends what you mean by “large”:

    NY:”In 2000, Catholics comprised more than 40% of the population in New York; Protestants were 30% of the population, Jews 8.4%, Muslims 3.5%, Buddhists 1%, and 13% claimed no religious affiliation (irreligious, agnostics, and atheists).”

    Michigan:
    Muslim: 1%
    Buddhist: 1%
    Hindu: <0.5%
    Other world religions: <0.5%
    Other faiths: 1%

    Minnesota:" A 2010 survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life showed that 32.0% of Minnesotans were affiliated with Mainline Protestant traditions, 21.0% were Evangelical Protestants, 28.0% were Roman Catholic, 1.0% each were Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, and Black Protestant, and smaller amounts were of other faiths, with 13.0% unaffiliated."

    So, NY is 3.5% Muslim, Michigan is 1% Muslim, and Minnesota is 1% Muslim. I wouldn't describe that as "large."

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  110. “Of 10 highest IQ’s on earth, at least 8 are Theists, at least 6 are Christians).”

    Why are Christian propaganda pages like the one linked above so obviously written for (and by?) morons?

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  111. Jefferson:
    You personally know Evangelicals who make over $100,000 a year right ? If the typical profession of a upper middle class Jew is a doctor for example, what is the typical profession of a upper middle class Evangelical ?

    Tradesman (plumber, carpenter, electrician) as contractor.

    Oil worker in Texas, largely due to high pay and local inflation.

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  112. “Actually White Gentiles are the group in the U.S who are least likely to intermarry, not Jews.

    Among all newlyweds, 9.4% of whites, 17.1% of blacks, 25.7% of Hispanics and 27.7% of Asians married someone whose race or ethnicity was different from their own.”

    Given that white non-jews are by far the largest (and heterogeneous) group in the U.S., you do realize that it’s much easier for them to marry other white non-jews, right? I mean, it’s just math…

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  113. Kaz:
    To be fair, Atheists in America deal with evangelicalism in their communities/local culture the most. Islam doesn’t really appear on their radar for the most part.

    To be fair, most atheists in America are from Christian backgrounds. It is often family and community members that try to drag them back to their churches. (For the most part, not using Scientology methods, thank God!) When Islam appears on their radar, it is educated Muslim professionals that mind their own business.

    Besides, Islamdom has found out centuries ago that most adult converts “don’t get it”. When they want forced conversions, they take over a region, kidnap children, and raise them as loyal Muslims.

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  114. I was referring to the early years of continental Calvinism.

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  115. Actually White Gentiles are the group in the U.S who are least likely to intermarry, not Jews.

    Among all newlyweds, 9.4% of whites, 17.1% of blacks, 25.7% of Hispanics and 27.7% of Asians married someone whose race or ethnicity was different from their own.

    Pish tosh. Nobody even knows how many Italian-Americans marry English-Americans, how many French-Americans marry Swedish-Americans, etc. Nobody even cares enough to track the stats. It’s assumed you didn’t marry someone from your own ethnic group if you’re a white American.

    What did Pew find as to how many Jews marry blacks?

    *sound of cricket symphony*

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  116. “Minnesota:” A 2010 survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life showed that 32.0% of Minnesotans were affiliated with Mainline Protestant traditions, 21.0% were Evangelical Protestants, 28.0% were Roman Catholic, 1.0% each were Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, and Black Protestant, and smaller amounts were of other faiths, with 13.0% unaffiliated.”

    There are over 70,000 Somalis in The Twin Cities. Which religion do you think the vast majority of them follow ? Scientology ? Mormonism ? Judaism ? If you are a White liberal Atheist living in Minneapolis, you see Muslims on the streets on a daily basis.

    http://thirdeyemom.com/2013/09/30/a-new-american-the-rise-of-somalis-in-minnesota/

    New York City has over 600,000 Muslims. So if you are a White liberal Atheist living in the Big Apple, you are not exactly sheltered from the Muslim community, you see them on a daily basis on the streets.

    http://www.nycreligion.info/161-mosques-york-city-counting/

    There is a city in Michigan called Dearborn where Muslims outnumber Christians.

    http://www.30-days.net/muslims/muslims-in/america-north/islam-in-dearborn-michigan/

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  117. All I know is, no Palestinian ever called me Reggin.

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  118. “Given that white non-jews are by far the largest (and heterogeneous) group in the U.S., you do realize that it’s much easier for them to marry other white non-jews, right? I mean, it’s just math…”

    Half of all married Jews in the U.S have a Gentile spouse. Can you name any country in the world where White people are a Minority and where half all married White people have a spouse who is a Person Of Color ?

    How come half of all married White people in South Africa for example do not have a Black spouse ? After all White people are a Minority in South Africa, yet why do the majority of White South Africans still prefer to marry people who look like themselves ?

    Why don’t the majority of White people in South Africa prefer to marry Black ? After all Black is the dominant race in South Africa.

    I am pretty sure White people in Latin America also mostly marry other White people, even though Whites are a Minority in Latin America.

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  119. It depends on how you look at it. If 89 out of 100 Jews feel warmly towards Jews, that means 11 out of 100 do not. If 80 out of 100 Catholics feel warmly towards Catholics, then 20 do not. 89 and 80 are pretty similar numbers, but 20 is almost twice 11.

    This is a well-known puzzle of numbers, and it’s hard to know what to think about it.

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  120. “Liberal blue states like Michigan, New York, and Minnesota for example have a large Muslim population. Yet I bet the vast majority of Atheists in those states do not have a single negative word to say about Muslims.”

    How much do you want to bet? Neither I, nor any of my atheist family, friends, or acquaintances, have anything good to say about Muslims. We think that most religions are horrific or at least silly, but Islam takes the cake for combining silliness and an extremely dim, hostile view of “infidels”.

    From your comments it seems you just make up your own reality – and not just about what atheists are like. I am an atheist conservative, and know many atheists like me. Granted, the majority may be left-leaning (many of them lapsed Jews), but this nonsense that atheists are nearly all hard-left, self-hating whites is irritating. Even if many voted for Obama, it was partly because they were sick of Bush43′s fake-evangelical crap, warmongering, and Israel-genuflection. Obama’s appeal wasn’t that he was supposedly anti-white, but that he seemed to be a rational atheist supportive of science, despite all the afroligious reverence for Rev. Wright.

    From my experience, many sysadmins, engineers and scientists in STEM fields are right-leaning, fairly conservative white atheists. Unfortunately, we are hated by the religious – particularly Christians and Muslims – not for being left-leaning, which many of us are not, but for not believing the same fairy tales you do. For that reasons we are hated and distrusted more than Muslim extremists who have actually killed thousands of your compatriots and would like to kill millions more.

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  121. “Tradesman (plumber, carpenter, electrician) as contractor.

    Oil worker in Texas, largely due to high pay and local inflation.”

    Would you say the same also mostly applies to upper middle class Mormons ?

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  122. E. Michael Jones also wrote about the Jewish-Protestant alliance against Catholics:

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Slaughter-Cities-Renewal-Cleansing/dp/1587317753

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  123. “Actually White Gentiles are the group in the U.S who are least likely to intermarry, not Jews. Among all newlyweds, 9.4% of whites, 17.1% of blacks, 25.7% of Hispanics and 27.7% of Asians married someone whose race or ethnicity was different from their own.”

    Almost by definition, the largest ethnic group in a given jurisdiction will have the lowest rate of intermarriage. This is easily to understand: take a case where a nation has only to groups, A and B. 90% of the population belongs to A, 10% belongs to B. If ALL of B intermarries (100% intermarriage for B), then only 11.1% of A will intermarry (10%/90%).

    This could change, of course, when there are more than 2 groups being considered, but in all likelihood the lowest rate of intermarriage will be in the largest racial/ethnic/religious group under consideration.

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  124. It depends on how you look at it. If 89 out of 100 Jews feel warmly towards Jews, that means 11 out of 100 do not. If 80 out of 100 Catholics feel warmly towards Catholics, then 20 do not. 89 and 80 are pretty similar numbers, but 20 is almost twice 11.

    This is a well-known puzzle of numbers, and it’s hard to know what to think about it.

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  125. “89 and 80 are pretty similar numbers, but 20 is almost twice 11. This is a well-known puzzle of numbers, and it’s hard to know what to think about it.”

    Same goes with crime, of course. Say that 99.4% of whites and 94% of blacks aren’t violent felons. It means that the overwhelming majority of blacks aren’t felons – but it also means that, per capita, blacks have 10x as many violent felons as whites. What matters isn’t the fraction of blacks who don’t commit violent crimes, but the fraction that does.

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  126. Svigor says:

    All I know is, no Palestinian ever called me Reggin.

    Someone got the joke. BTW, I’m white, but thought “Reggin” a good name to use on this blog.

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  127. There was probably a non-trivial number of black-Jewish marriages among boomers. I can think of a few celebrity examples, and knew of a non-famous example from my hometown in the ’80s.

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  128. Jefferson:

    “Tradesman (plumber, carpenter, electrician) as contractor.
    Oil worker in Texas, largely due to high pay and local inflation.”

    Would you say the same also mostly applies to upper middle class Mormons ?

    Good question. I would say yes. Mormons have the reputation of being smarter and less roughneck and redneck than Evangelicals – while being just as conservative. But this is just reputation. IIRC their career preferences are the same.

    I might as well add teacher, engineer, and accountant to that list – for the smarter and better educated conservative Christians. While these professions require a four-year degree, they really require more hard work and persistence than super brainpower.

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  129. “Granted, the majority may be left-leaning (many of them lapsed Jews).

    The vast majority of Atheists in the world are not Jews. This is 100 percent fact, so don’t try to use a cop out by blaming it on the Jews as to why most Atheists are attracted to left wing politics.

    Israel does not even make the list of the top 10 least religious countries. 7 of the 10 least religious countries in the world are located in Northern Europe. The other 3 are China, Australia, and South Korea.

    China alone has more Atheists than the entire Jewish population on the planet.

    THE ATHEIST POPULATION IN THE WORLD IS OVERWHELMINGLY NON KOSHER, FACT.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/23/most-religious-countries-least-religious_n_3640033.html

    ” Even if many voted for Obama, it was partly because they were sick of Bush43′s fake-evangelical crap, warmongering, and Israel-genuflection. Obama’s appeal wasn’t that he was supposedly anti-white, but that he seemed to be a rational atheist supportive of science, despite all the afroligious reverence for Rev. Wright.”

    Atheists have always been a left wing voting bloc even before Barack Obama ran for president.. Atheists have NEVER been a swing vote demographic. Atheists support The Democratic Party over The Republican Party by a landslide.

    Hillary Clinton will easily win the Atheist vote when she runs for president in 2016.

    You trying to paint Atheists as “natural Republicans” is as equally absurd as Karl Rove trying to paint Mestizos as “natural Republicans”.

    “From your comments it seems you just make up your own reality – and not just about what atheists”

    I am not making stuff, I posted facts about the voting habits of Atheists. And Atheists as a voting bloc are left wing just like Mestizos, Blacks,, Muslims, Jews, single mothers, people under 30, etc. Barack Obama would not be in office for 8 years if it wasn’t for you people.

    These demographic groups are the heart and soul of The Democratic Party.

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  130. “Same goes with crime, of course. Say that 99.4% of whites and 94% of blacks aren’t violent felons. It means that the overwhelming majority of blacks aren’t felons – but it also means that, per capita, blacks have 10x as many violent felons as whites. What matters isn’t the fraction of blacks who don’t commit violent crimes, but the fraction that does.”

    You think 94 percent of Blacks are law abiding citizens who do not cause any trouble ? Maybe that applies to Black women, but I don’t think that applies to Black men. The percentage of Black males who have connections to the thug life is definitely higher than 6 percent.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics_of_incarcerated_African-American_males

    A Black male born in 1991 has a 29% chance of spending time in prison at some point in his life.

    Nearly one in three African American males aged 20–29 are under some form of criminal justice supervision whether imprisoned, jailed, on parole or probation.

    The majority of Black people in America most likely know at least one Brotha who is a hardcore criminal, either a family member or a close friend.

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  131. Eric Michael Dyson is suppose to be an intellectual in the African American community, yet he has admitted in the past that his brother and one of his cousin are currently doing time in prison.

    A lot of the Black elites in this country still have family ties to the ghetto elements of the African American community.

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  132. This is one of those comments that reveals a lot about the commenters lower class background than anything. Houston is full of evangelical doctors, lawyers, oil execs and geologists. My high school was made up entirely of their children. If you live in Texas and don’t know any high status evangelicals it’s because for whatever reason you don’t know many high status people. Texas is run by high status evangelicals.

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  133. “I am an atheist conservative, and know many atheists like me. Granted, the majority may be left-leaning (many of them lapsed Jews), but this nonsense that atheists are nearly all hard-left, self-hating whites is irritating.”

    That is what the Religious Right wants everyone to believe about atheists and agnostics.

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  134. “You think 94 percent of Blacks are law abiding citizens who do not cause any trouble ?”

    It. Was. A. Hypothetical. Thanks for playing.

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  135. Why would you expect that? Jews are the Chosen Ones, Evangelicals are The Elect. Self-regard is built in.

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  136. Addressing Whiskey’s comment that evangelicals don’t so much like jews, as much as they hate Muslims.
    I profoundly disagree. My experience with evangelicals ranges from intimate (attending prayer and study meetings at their homes) to the casual and across several states (Southern) and time (early 90s to the present, but more involved in the late 90s).
    They love Israel and see the Jewish people as something special. Putting Jews on pedestals has been going on as far as I can remember.

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  137. “That is what the Religious Right wants everyone to believe about atheists and agnostics.”

    Name one Atheist politician in Washington D.C who is not a liberal ?

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  138. “Atheists on average think that White Southerners in bible belt states like Mississippi and Tennessee are the real dangerous religious extremists that we should be worrying about and not the religious extremists in countries like Iran, Yemen, Palestine, and Saudi Arabia.”

    Well of course American atheists will be more concerned with religious fundamentalists/extremists in their own country, state, town, than the fundamentalists/extremists half way around the world.

    As a globe trotter myself, my concerns as I travel are with the fundamentalists I meet in each region at the time, not the ones I left behind elsewhere 6 months ago.

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  139. “A Black male born in 1991 has a 29% chance of spending time in prison at some point in his life.”

    Much of it non-violent crime like drugs.

    Either legalize recreational drugs or make alcohol illegal as well.

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  140. “From my experience, many sysadmins, engineers and scientists in STEM fields are right-leaning, fairly conservative white atheists.”

    Correct. But they’re not on Youtube ranting against religion or writing The God Delusion. They are quiet and keep their disbelief to themselves and so people often assume they are believers in god or agnostic.

    I would think that the decline in church attendance in the US speaks louder than any anti-God Youtube rant.

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  141. “what is the typical profession of a upper middle class Evangelical ?

    “Tradesman (plumber, carpenter, electrician) as contractor.”

    I have a hard time believing anyone could get into the upper middle class with that. Middle-middle, sure, but upper-middle class is extremely wealthy.

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  142. ” I guess leaving Judaism for Buddhism seems like less of a betrayal than leaving it for Christianity. Probably more importantly, Buddhism has an intellectual appeal.”

    Its the philosophical appeal. Christianity and Buddhism are apples and oranges. Of course there are some basic similarities, as most religions overlap on at least a few values/ethics, but for an above average IQ secular or even religious Jew, its really a no-brainer that Buddhism would be their choice and Christianity not even considered.

    Speaking of India originated religions, you might find this interesting;

    http://mag.newsweek.com/2009/08/14/we-are-all-hindus-now.html

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  143. Its likely that conservative politicians keep their atheism to themselves, like so many atheists do. Its nothing more than an absence of belief in god. It doesn’t require a public proclamation.

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  144. “I am sure if there was a poll done in The United Kingdom and France asking Atheists what they think of Muslims, I am sure the vast majority of the Atheists would still give Muslims a positive rating.

    Atheists tend to be left tards who are pro-multiculuralism and they see Islam as the epitome of all that is good about multiculturalism.”

    Nope! From the PEW study;

    “Atheists give largely positive ratings to several non-Christian religious groups, including Buddhists (who receive an average rating of 69 from atheists), Jews (61) and Hindus (58). Atheists tend to give much cooler ratings to Muslims and the Christian groups asked about in the survey.”

    I think atheists give Islam and Christianity an equally cold shoulder because they are the loudest “My Way Or The Hell Way” religions, bent on conversion by hegemonic hook, crook, foreign mission or sword.

    And “Evangelical Christians” gave low ratings to non-Christian groups. Of course, everyone not a Christian is “of Satan”, right?

    “When asked about other non-Christian groups, evangelicals tend to express more negative views. White evangelicals assign Buddhists an average rating of 39, Hindus 38, Muslims 30 and atheists 25. The chilliness between evangelicals and atheists goes both ways. Atheists give evangelical Christians a cold rating of 28 on average.”

    Link: http://www.pewforum.org/2014/07/16/how-americans-feel-about-religious-groups/

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  145. There is speculation that religion is in no risk of extinction because the propensity, in greater or lesser degrees, is written in our DNA. If this is true, I’m wondering what mechanism triggered my simultaneous loss of both faith and interest in spectator sports – something I never anticipated happening. For the time being, I’m still a devoted reader of this blog, but I’m starting to worry that a creeping nihilism might undermine this too.

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  146. anonymous
    says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    “I’m wondering what mechanism triggered my simultaneous loss of both faith and interest in spectator sports – something I never anticipated happening.”

    In all seriousness, I wonder (perhaps based on my own travel along this trajectory) if it is not just a natural part of the ageing process. A sense of acceptance of things might not be the same as creeping nihilism, perhaps just a more realistic view of things than when one is young and full of hormones.

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  147. Right.

    The primary difference between religions:
    1. Jews are primarily coastal urbanites.
    2. Christians are primarily ruralites.

    Jews’ political attitudes are in line with their coastal urbanite neighbors.

    Jews ended up in coastal cities because of the professions they tend to enter.

    Jews born in Russia, and Jews in Israel are all conservatives. Israel is not only #1 in the world for scientific papers and startups per capita, but also one of the most conservative countries in the West.

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  148. “Hmm, atheists put evangelicals at 28 and Muslims at 44. What a bunch of dipsh*ts.”

    Ha!

    Atheist SWPLs are going to find out just how nice Sharia Law is now that Mosques are moving into abandoned Churchs in England.

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  149. “Well of course American atheists will be more concerned with religious fundamentalists/extremists in their own country, state, town, than the fundamentalists/extremists half way around the world.”

    Why would Atheists need to be concerned with White Southern Evangelicals ? Are they chopping people’s heads off and strapping bombs onto people ?

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  150. “Much of it non-violent crime like drugs.

    Either legalize recreational drugs or make alcohol illegal as well.”

    Why is rape, assault & battery, and murder so much higher in the Black community than it is in the White community if Black crime is almost always of the non violent kind ?

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  151. “I think atheists give Islam and Christianity an equally cold shoulder”

    Atheists rate Evangelicals even lower than they do Muslims, 28 percent of of Atheists give Evangelicals a positive rating compared to 44 percent of Atheists who give Muslims a positive rating. SO NOT EQUALLY COLD SHOULDER.

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  152. A sense of acceptance of things might not be the same as creeping nihilism, perhaps just a more realistic view of things than when one is young and full of hormones.

    I’ve considered that, but even Samuel Beckett maintained an interest in Cricket.

    Atheist SWPLs are going to find out just how nice Sharia Law is now that Mosques are moving into abandoned Churchs in England.

    This is my greatest fear. Can a Christian aesthetic persist without a lack of true faith. On the other hand, is it the Christian meme of tolerance that opened the door to outsiders?

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  153. Why would Atheists need to be concerned with White Southern Evangelicals ? Are they chopping people’s heads off and strapping bombs onto people ?

    Simple. White Southern Evangelicals are the ones that harass atheists on a personal basis. Muslims may be more violent, and outright murderous, but they do not bother American atheists. Even their acts of terror such as 9-11 are impersonal. Atheists did die in the Twin Towers.

    As for chopping off heads, many of these heads belonged to murderers and rapists – not just political offenders. One thing I like about the Islamic criminal justice system: it sure doesn’t coddle criminals at taxpayer expense!

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  154. Robinson, religion as commonly thought of in the West is at a risk of extinction because it requires too much of a willful suspension of logical thinking skills. That is why Western religions require “faith”. When I say Western religions I mean mainly Christianity and Judaism, though Islam is faith based as well, so we might as well just go with “Abrahamic religions”. However, Eastern religions are philosophies and the stories that illustrate those philosophies are engaged with in a way that doesn’t require “faith”. As the IQ of Westerners increases, as it is, we see more of an interest in these philosophical approaches and less of a willingness to suspend logical thinking skills.

    So religions that engage logical thinking skills, contain solid philosophy, and view myths as illustrative of philosophy rather than stories one must take literally because of “faith”, are the religions that will continue to flourish.

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  155. “is it the Christian meme of tolerance that opened the door to outsiders?”

    Christian tolerance was originated as a means to avoid mutual respect amongst various branches of Christianity;

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rajiv-malhotra/hypocrisy-of-tolerance_b_792239.html

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  156. “is it the Christian meme of tolerance that opened the door to outsiders?”

    “Religious tolerance was advocated in Europe after centuries of wars between opposing denominations of Christianity, each claiming to be “the one true church” and persecuting followers of “false religions.” Tolerance was a political “deal” arranged between enemies to quell the violence (a kind of cease-fire) without yielding any ground. Since it was not based on genuine respect for difference, it inevitably broke down.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rajiv-malhotra/hypocrisy-of-tolerance_b_792239.html

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  157. “Why is rape, assault & battery, and murder so much higher in the Black community than it is in the White community if Black crime is almost always of the non violent kind ?”

    I didn’t say “almost always”, I said “much of it”. Big difference. With non-violent “crimes” like drug selling and use out of the way, our big gov police force can be cut down and the remaining cops and detectives do the real work of getting actual criminals off the streets.

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  158. “Why would Atheists need to be concerned with White Southern Evangelicals ?”

    Because the survey was of Americans and of course American atheists are concerned with the fundamentalists who are within their own culture. Atheists in other countries concern themselves with the religious nuts in their own countries, not southern white American ones.

    This point was already pointed out by another commenter above.

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  159. ” Israel is not only #1 in the world for scientific papers and startups per capita, but also one of the most conservative countries in the West.”

    Ever been to Israel? It might qualify as politically or financially conservative, but socially conservative it most definitely is not.

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  160. Mutual respect instead of tolerance seems like a good idea. Asabiyyah has to be fought for, or the engine of prosperity and technological advance falls apart.

    But Islam has also long had warring sects, and they haven’t developed a movement for tolerance anything like what’s seen in the West.

    So the root of the West’s self-termination by importing endless millions of low-IQ immigrants until the U.S. will be majority Aztec and Europe will be majority Muslim must be found elsewhere.

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  161. “I didn’t say “almost always”, I said “much of it”. Big difference. With non-violent “crimes” like drug selling and use out of the way, our big gov police force can be cut down and the remaining cops and detectives do the real work of getting actual criminals off the streets.”

    Even if all drugs are legalized, Black men will still outnumber White men in the U.S prison population because Black males on average are just more violent.

    Another typical weekend in the Black urban inner city America.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-43-shot-4-fatally-in-chicago-weekend-violence/

    Even in lower working class White communities in the U.S, you still do not see the level of violence that you see in Black communities.

    Which is more evidence that Black violence is more caused by genetics than by poverty. Since poor people of all races do not commit violent crimes at the exact same rate. Poor Whites on average are less violent than poor Blacks.

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  162. Israel is the only Western country that’s fighting being swamped by low-IQ immigration.

    Also, Israel supported South Africa when the rest of the West worked with their enemies to turn South Africa into its current form that’s worse for everybody in that country: Blacks, Whites, and Indians.

    16% of Israelis identify as left of center, vs. 38% identifying as right of center:
    -Very left 4%
    -Somewhat left 12%
    -Center 36%
    -Somewhat right 35%
    -Very right 3%

    I’ve never been to Israel. I only care about it because:
    1. It makes invaluable contributions to humanity’s science and technology.
    2. Clueless media leftists unjustly demonize it.

    (BTW, I like South Asians, as long as they raise the average of the West and return the favor by opposing unjust discrimination against Whites.)

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  163. “Even if all drugs are legalized, Black men will still outnumber White men in the U.S prison population because Black males on average are just more violent.”

    So you agree with me that drug use and selling should be decriminalized?

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  164. Robinson, “Can a Christian aesthetic persist without a lack of true faith.”

    I “believe” that it can. Provided it follow the model of Asian religious philosophies and cease to interpret allegorical myths as literal “absolute truths”.

    Aren’t secular Jews doing just that? Christianity grew out of Judaism so if Jews can do it, so can Christians.

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  165. This is kind of embarrassing to me personally. I’ll just say that I have the highest regard for conservative, moral, honorable people, and the lowest regard for malcontented, neurotic, dishonorable people. Jewish/nonjewish doesn’t matter to me.

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  166. Do Southern Evangelicals, white or black, believe in religious freedom of choice?

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  167. Eastern culture and countries do not appeal to me enough to pursue a deep exploration into their religious and philosophical underpinnings. I went to Wikipedia and scanned the entry on Buddhism until my eyes glazed over – not for me. People stop going to church, not because they’re heading towards Eastern Mysticism but because they’ve found the distractions of web surfing, ebooks, TV and sports more satisfying.

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  168. Nonsense. Completely flawed methodology.

    Judaism is the only category listed that’s also an ethnicity, so of course an ethnicity is going to hold more favorable feelings towards its other members, rather than merely co-religionists. Mr Sailer should know this better than almost anyone.

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  169. Jews’ revealed preference about other groups can be measured in that have the highest interfaith marriage rate.

    “In 2010, I commissioned the polling firm YouGov to conduct a nationally representative survey… Jews were the most likely, and Mormons the least likely, to marry outside the faith. Muslims fell somewhere in the middle.” -Naomi Schaefer Riley

    For all Jews, the intermarriage rate is 58%, but the rate for the Jews we care about (the non-Orthodox Jews who are highly represented in cognitively demanding areas) is 71%.

    So Jews really like other Jews, but their real-world marriage outcomes (71% outmarriage) suggests they like Gentiles even more.

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  170. Joe Walker:”I think it has more to do with Jewish guys lusting after Catholic women.”

    Are Catholic girls better looking than Protestant ones?

    Certainly not, but they’re not better-looking than Jewish girls, either. But it’s beside the point anyway. Lusting after Catholic girls has nothing to do with their relative attractiveness; it has to do with the fact that there are no moral constraints on what they can do with them.

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  171. For all Jews, the intermarriage rate is 58%, but the rate for the Jews we care about (the non-Orthodox Jews who are highly represented in cognitively demanding areas) is 71%.

    Ludicrous. For all Jews, the intermarriage rate is about 10-15%. Remember not all Jews live in the US, and the rate in the US is probably 25-30%. The 58% figure is a total joke that you have never even attempted to justify. How is it even supposed to be calculated? Two Jews marry and have three Jewish kids, whom they raise to adulthood. Then they divorce and out-marry. Is the intermarriage rate for this sample 67% (two out of three marriages) or 100% (both Jews outmarried)? The correct measure is 0%, since the non-reproductive marriages are irrelevant.

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  172. This is one of those comments that reveals a lot about the commenters lower class background than anything. Houston is full of evangelical doctors, lawyers, oil execs and geologists. My high school was made up entirely of their children. If you live in Texas and don’t know any high status evangelicals it’s because for whatever reason you don’t know many high status people. Texas is run by high status evangelicals.

    Maybe we have different definitions of “evangelical”, but if you meant “Protestant”, you would have said that.

    I couldn’t disagree with you more.

    I know lots of super-high-status people in Texas, and none is remotely “evangelical”. They are mainline Protestants, Catholics, and Jews, with a Greek Orthodox or Mormon or Muslim thrown in here or there. The “evangelicals” are useful idiots with no power whatsoever.

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  173. Lusting after Catholic girls has nothing to do with their relative attractiveness; it has to do with the fact that there are no moral constraints on what they can do with them.

    That’s a little dark. Jewish guys who marry gentile women often do so because they’re tired of having so many Tiger Mom, Drama Queens in their lives. I remember a Jewish guy responding to an invitation to go on a Jewish singles’ cruise – “No thanks, I like simple girls.”
    Just an observation from a gentile in America’s Jerusalem.

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  174. Right, 58% intermarriage for all Jews (including orthodox) in the U.S., not the world.

    The 58% / 71% is from a Pew study. (The link to their methodology is in the upper right corner.)

    Interviews were conducted by telephone (landlines and cell phones) between Feb. 20 and June 13, 2013, by the research firm Abt SRBI. Interviews were conducted in English and Russian. After taking into account the complex sample design, the margin of error on the 3,475 completed interviews with Jews [by religion] is +/ – 3.0 percentage points at the 95% level of confidence…

    The findings are robust in that they’re consistent with the steady rise of Jewish intermarriage rates across decades, the steady decline in Jewish religious identification, and the general liberalization of marriage attitudes starting in the 1960s and 70s.

    The findings are consistent with the world around us. Some of the most famous Jews today:

    Mark Zuckerberg: Married an Asian.
    Dustin Moskovitz: Married a Turk (apparently).
    Larry Page: Half-Jewish, married a gentile.
    Larry Ellison: Married a gentile.
    Steve Ballmer: Half-Jewish, married a gentile.
    Ben Horowitz: Married an African-American.
    Harrison Ford: Half-Jewish, married Calista Flockhart.
    Steven Spielberg: Married a gentile.
    Jennifer Connelly: Half-Jewish, married Paul Bettany.
    Gwenyth Paltrow: Half-Jewish, married Chris Martin.
    Natalie Portman: Married a gentile.
    Rachel Weisz: Married Daniel Craig.
    Scarlett Johansson: Half-Jewish, married Ryan Reynolds.
    Mila Kunis: Married Ashton Kutcher.
    Armie Hammer: Half-Jewish, married Elizabeth Chambers.
    Sacha Baron Cohen: Married Isla Fisher.
    Paul Newman: Half-Jewish, married a gentile.
    Daniel Day-Lewis: Half-Jewish, married a half-Jew raised Christian, neither are religious.
    Liev Schreiber: Married Naomi Watts.
    Michael Douglas: Half-Jewish, and married Catherine Zeta-Jones.
    Allison Brie: Half-Jewish.
    Jake Gyllenhaal: Half-Jewish.
    Dianna Agron: Half-Jewish.

    Basically, many people around us are part Jewish, and we never know unless the surname that got passed down was stereotypically Jewish.

    Jews’ subsequent marriages will more often be to Gentiles because attitudes continue to relax as Jews assimilate more and the times change.

    The 71% refers to marriages in the current period of 2000-2013. You can see the number go up each decade in this chart. (They’re showing 58%, since their concern is all U.S. Jews, whereas we don’t care about Jews in funny hats who are like the Amish.)

    So 71% of non-orthodox Jews born today would be expected to have one Gentile (or other ancestry) parent.

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  175. Robinson, “Eastern culture and countries do not appeal to me enough to pursue a deep exploration into their religious and philosophical underpinnings. ”

    That’s perfectly alright!

    “I went to Wikipedia and scanned the entry on Buddhism until my eyes glazed over – not for me.”

    It doesn’t have to be. The beauty is that today the entire buffet of religions, philosophies, cultures and traditions are available for you and I to pick and choose whichever ones move us.

    “People stop going to church, not because they’re heading towards Eastern Mysticism”

    Correction: “SOME people stop going to church, not because they’re heading towads Eastern Mysticism”.

    ” but because they’ve found the distractions of web surfing, ebooks, TV and sports more satisfying.”

    Again, its “some” people preferring the web, TV, etc to going to church. Some other people, like the hundreds that I personally know, are definitely leaving Judaism and Christianity for Asian systems. I know this because I’m a teacher of various Asian systems and my students tell me why they are interested in learning and practicing this stuff.

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  176. Upon further reflection I’m going to change what I wrote here, “Ever been to Israel? It might qualify as politically or financially conservative, but socially conservative it most definitely is not.”

    Politically Israel’s very conception is based upon far left identity politics and financially it is a welfare state propped up by the American tax payer.

    European Jews do well wherever in the world they go. Why on earth they want to live in a Middle Eastern desert is beyond me.

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  177. I also read : http://bit.ly/1u3AYT2. This survey is only about religion. I would like Pew Forum and/or the Gallup to take surveys of religious groups and their feelings towards the conservation of wildlife, hunting, fishing and the protection of the environment in general.

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