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The U.S. Open golf tournament at Pebble Beach on Northern California’s Monterey Peninsula is always fun due to the spectacular landscape on the ocean cliff holes 6 through 10. It’s hard not to make Pebble look great on TV.

On the other hand, Fox on Saturday managed to make Pebble look dull by too many close-ups.

Interestingly, in person it can be a bit disappointing because houses line at least one side of quite a few of the holes. For example, when my dad and I played in 1973, he was so intimidated by the demand to hit the ball over a bit of the Pacific from the 18th tee that he aimed far inland … And banged it right off some rich guy’s door.

Interestingly, when it comes to income inequality, Pebble Beach is a somewhat public course and in 1973, the green’s fee was only $20 for anybody to walk on.

Today, the green’s fee for non-resort guests is $550, plus you really ought to pay for a caddy, which will cost you at least $150. extra. If you choose to take a motorized cart, you’ll be forced to drive on the inland cart paths, which are dull. So, take a caddy.

It’s your bucket list, after all.

In fact, $550 is probably pretty cheap for Pebble Beach, considering it’s only an hour or two drive from Silicon Valley and it’s a bucket list golf course. In contrast, nearby Spyglass Hill, which gets down into the sand dunes for holes 1 to 5 but doesn’t quite touch the ocean, is $395. Spyglass Hill is a terrific golf course, with #4 being likely Robert Trent Jones’ best hole, but it’s not Pebble Beach.

My dad practically fell to his death on Pebble’s awesome 8th hole, which he didn’t on Spyglass. I had to shout at him when he was about 10 feet from the 120-foot cliff on the 8th at Pebble Beach. In the 1970s a golfer actually fell off the cliff at #8 but somehow survived the bumpy ride down the chasm.

Granted, these are, by 2019, giant and really nice-looking houses for rich guys like Charles Schwab. I was under the impression that Gene Hackman lived alongside a Pebble Beach fairway, but he appears to have sold out in 1993 and moved to Santa Fe.

Pebble Beach and nearby Cypress Point represent the ne plus ultra of the WASP genius for real estate development. The main man was Samuel Finley Morse, a distant cousin of the Morse Code Morse:

Samuel Finley Brown Morse was born in Newton, Massachusetts, the son of George Morse, a soldier in the American Civil War and later a lawyer in Massachusetts. Morse’s distant cousin, Samuel Morse was the inventor of the telegraph and Morse Code. Morse attended Andover, like his father, and then Yale. At Yale, he was captain of the undefeated 1906 football team and member of the 1906 All-America Team. A member of Skull and Bones,[1]:206 he was voted Most Popular in the Yale University graduating class in 1907.

Edmund Burke in 1757 write about the Sublime vs. the Beautiful.

Elite tastes in the first half of the 18th Century (the Age of Reason) were oriented toward the comfortable and reasonable. Mountain-climbing, for example, was not something Voltaire would have found obsessively interesting.

In the second half of the 18th Century (the beginning of the Romantic Era), new thinkers like Rousseau and Burke were part of a changing taste toward the wilder and less reasonable. The first real landmark event in mountain-climbing history, for example, was the first ascent of Mount Blanc, the tallest mountain in the Alps, in 1786.

My interpretation of Burke’s dichotomy of the beautiful/sublime when it comes to landscape is that:

– The Beautiful landscape is that in which it looks easy for humans to thrive (e.g., the Dutch countryside or the pleasant flat floor of Yosemite Valley or The Shire);

– While the Sublime landscape is that which looks likely to kill you (e.g., the Alps or the cliffs of Yosemite Valley or Rivendell).

Pebble Beach is sublime because you can lose your golf ball into the Pacific Ocean. After our round in 1973, my dad and I went down into the tidepools alongside the 18th hole at Pebble Beach and found 30 golf balls.

Pebble Beach is the perfect combination of land gently sloping toward the ocean, so that the views of the water are unobstructed, plus ocean cliffs.

 
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  1. They should play the U.S. Open here every year.
    Perfect set up this week. Big for the USGA after some recent screw ups. Fox has done s good job w the coverage.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The downside of Pebble Beach for the US Open is the June Gloom. No sunshine on Saturday and Sunday. The Monterey Peninsula is insanely beautiful in fall, but can be gloomy in summer.

    But the upside is there's no thunder storms to delay play and the tournament finishes in prime time on the east coast.

    What the USGA should do is pay for Torrey Pines in San Diego to be upgraded to a world class course by going down into the arroyos more and upgrading the greens and bunkers, and then send the US Open there every six years or so. I had dinner last year with golf architect Rees Jones, who built the great new third hole at Torrey Pines South that I use as an iSteve logo in the right hand column. Give him a lot of money and the environmental clearances to go down into the canyons and he could build a showcase municipal course for American golf.

  2. On behalf of … a lot of guys who eat breakfast every day while reading your posts – Happy Fathers Day.

  3. the green’s fee was only $20 for anybody to walk on. [1973]

    Today, the green’s fee for non-resort guests is $550

    An inflation calculator tells me $20 in ”73 would be $100 today; so the nice things become more expensive and rarer as the nation fills with people.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Golf course connoisseurship has increased vastly over my lifetime. Golf was popular in 1973, and Pebble Beach had recently hosted the 1972 US Open, but there wasn't all that much demand back then to play the legendary courses.

    Keep in mind that Pebble Beach isn't that much fun of a course because the way it keeps the best golfers in the world from going 25 under par without being a very long course is by having tiny greens. So a pretty good approach shot can get severely punished. Pebble Beach is a little like the Robert Trent Jones' new course at Ballybunion in Ireland, which is built on incredible sand dunes. It would be hugely fun if the greens weren't so punitively small. But when the wind blows it's just hard hard hard.

    The most fun course I've ever played is the National Golf Links of America in South Hampton, with Ballybunion's Old Course second.

    That said, Pebble Beach's holes 6-10 are as great as it gets.

  4. You played there with your dad when you were 14? How long had you played golf by that point? Have you played Pebble Beach since?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    It was after Christmas 1973, so I was 15. I started playing golf in the fall of 1971, so about 27 months. I was pretty bad. No, I've never played Pebble Beach since.
  5. Cypress Point Chooses to Surrender Its Status; JAIME DIAZ; JAN. 31, 1991; New York Times

    https://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/31/sports/golf-cypress-point-chooses-to-surrender-its-status.html

    They quit putting their golf course on display in the AT&T (formerly Bing Crosby) golf tournament because they would not let the PGA dictate diversity policy.

    A friend of mine has this fantasy to travel backwards in time and kill the person who coined the expression bucket list he hates it so much. The idiot yammerers who host sports talk radio shows seem to love it.

  6. Anon[265] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    Satire: Why ‘Law And Order: Hate Crimes Unit’ Is The Show America Needs
    The new Netflix original mini-series exposes the dark heart of American hatred with all the trappings of ‘Law and Order’ we love.

    https://thefederalist.com/2019/06/16/law-order-hate-crimes-unit-show-america-needs/

    Episode three of the five-episode mini-season, “Take Off, Eh?” is the most compelling and controversial. In it we find an embattled Canadian professor at Hudson University, loosely based on Jordan Peterson, accused of the murder of a transgender activist.

    As the plot plays out, we find that the activist actually died of an accidental overdose, but is the character, Fordham Jeterson, aptly played by Rick Moranis, guilty of driving this poor trans activist to xir own death?

    Episode one, “Swastikas and Corned Beef,” is a nice introduction to the characters. In the wee hours of the morning, the night after Saint Patrick’s Day, some Irish hooligans in MAGA hats appear to spray-paint a swastika on the famous “Katzenberg Deli.”

    As it turns out, the video did show them in the vicinity, but did not show the act of racist vandalism. By the end we learn that Yankel Katzenberg manufactured the anti-Semitic incident to drum up business. But thankfully one of the Irish thugs was arrested as a result of the investigation for having failed to appear at jury duty, and did 25 days at Rikers. Justice prevailed.

    The only real disappointment in the series is episode two, “Is He Too White?” It is revanchist melancholia purporting to suggest that racism is possible against white people. It opens with a white guy, played by a seemingly bored Giovanni Ribisi, being doused with acid as he uploads a blog post on the free Wi-Fi at Starbucks. The attack was a result of a post he put up that suggested the United States is possibly, but maybe not, the greatest threat to the world. He even went so far as to say Sharia law might be bad.

    The final two-episode installment, “That’s Not Funny,” is perhaps the best and deepest look at fat shaming that American entertainment has yet produced. Throughout the series, Manhattan District Attorney Tad Jefferson White, menacingly played by David Spade, represents the racist patriarchy scoffing at the real violence hate speech causes. Well, now his chickens come home to roost.

    After losing a case and getting drunk in a midscale, midtown Irish bar where lawyers drink martinis, White tweets out that the female judge in the case is “a cow who should lay off the fried chicken and chocolate cake.” Obviously, the closeted gay White wakes up hung over the next morning with Brownstein and Patel at his door.

    Was his tweet a crime? Is this the only time he has engaged in dangerous fat shaming? Are his ratio and the 20 notifications every ten minutes that make his Twitter account unusable really sufficient punishment?

  7. The best houses in Pebble Beach are those built along the shore by Morse’s friends: great hulking architecturally brilliant piles built in Spanish Colonial or just plain old baronial style by families like Goodyear. A brother of William F. Buckley lived in one of the best of them in the 70s and 80s.
    Earlier these were summer “cottages” for the real old money families of San Francisco and the East Coast (like Morse himself).

    The smaller houses were built by people of much more modesty means; a goodly number from the 50s till the 70s were retired military men of flag rank. These are the houses which are now being torn down and replaced by unfortunate MacMansions of varying quality.

    Pebble Beach is better value for money than it used to be. The house my father had built there in 1971 cost him twice what he had sold our house in Los Gatos for. Fifty years later the situation is reversed. Even more strikingly, the Palo Alto house which had sold in 1962 for $25,000 is now worth more than the other two combined.

    • Replies: @danand


    "Pebble Beach is better value for money than it used to be. The house my father had built there in 1971 cost him twice what he had sold our house in Los Gatos for. Fifty years later the situation is reversed. Even more strikingly, the Palo Alto house which had sold in 1962 for $25,000 is now worth more than the other two combined."
     
    Old Palo Altan, it's close to unimaginable what has occurred in/to Palo Alto over the last ~50 years. Back when your father built that house in Pebble there was simply no way he, nor anyone else, could have imaged the reality of 2019 (Google/Facebook salaries & stock options/grants). And as far as Los Gatos goes, that was way too far a commute from the "good jobs" in Sunnyvale/Santa Clara of that era. (That breakfast place, The Los Gatos Cafe, is still my morning favorite, even though now I try to limit my occasional visits to weekdays to avoid the wait/noise.) Heck even Palo Alto was a bit too much of a commute back then.

    I guess maybe it should have been obvious that with most families in the California bay area having been "migrants" from other states, there was no reason to think people would out of blue just stop arriving.

    Pebble Beach is uniquely nice, but what still kind of baffles me is just how much of the CA coast is lightly inhabited, rarely set foot on; and how much sand is left undisturbed by everything but the wind and ocean. And like you say, affordable relative to Palo Alto. Guess it's just "too remote", away from the action, for most?
    , @PV van der Byl

    The best houses in Pebble Beach are those built along the shore by Morse’s friends: great hulking architecturally brilliant piles built in Spanish Colonial or just plain old baronial style by families like Goodyear. A brother of William F. Buckley lived in one of the best of them in the 70s and 80s. Earlier these were summer “cottages” for the real old money families of San Francisco and the East Coast (like Morse himself).
     
    https://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/charles-crockers-house/view/google/

    https://images.app.goo.gl/KK1Y7QncynksJVrQ9
  8. The course I occasionally play in Florida has gators in the water hazards. I can afford to lose a couple golf balls from time to time, rather than risk my own.

  9. Anon[265] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    Not exactly a hate hoax …

    Holocaust History Blogger Accused Of Making Up Family Members Who Died At Auschwitz

    https://forward.com/fast-forward/425373/holocaust-history-blogger-lied-auschwitz-family/

    An Irish blogger made up various facts about her family’s suffering during the Holocaust, according to a report from the German investigative magazine Der Spiegel.

    On the blog, Hingst appeared to be documenting her efforts at tracing her family’s genealogy and their fates. She found that multiple family members were killed at Auschwitz, and even traveled to Yad Vashem, Israel’s Holocaust museum, to register the names of 22 relatives who she said died during the Holocaust with their database of Holocaust victims. Hingst became a celebrated historian of the Holocaust, writing for the German paper Die Zeit and lectured about her historical odyssey in front of Jewish communities in Europe. Her blog had over 240,000 readers.

    But the Der Spiegel investigation found that not only were there no pieces of evidence to suggest that any of those relatives existed, but that she was not of Jewish descent: her German family was Protestant, and the grandfather who she claimed was an Auschwitz inmate was actually a Protestant pastor.

  10. The beach appears to be sand, like the bunkers, not pebble.

    This is what a pebble beach looks like.

    not this

    I guess souvenir hunters took all the pebbles.

    • Replies: @Lot
    I thought the same thing seeing the photo.

    Nice has a pebble beach. Not very easy on soft feet. Next door Monaco had one too, but imports sand for it, I believe by barge from Denmark.
    , @bored identity
    Hey, pebble, or sand- it ain't matter...

    Y'all should fill out your bucket list with it, anyway.
    , @Paul Jolliffe
    Slightly OT (but right in Steve's zone):

    Maybe this "Michigan woman" (!!!) was looking for souvenirs on the beach in Florida?

    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/06/16/florida-sea-turtle-nest-hudsonville-michigan/39588013/
    , @ThreeCranes
    I'd place the top picture on the English Channel, near Hastings.
    , @David
    It may interest you to know that beach originally meant water rounded pebbles.
  11. On the other hand, Fox on Saturday managed to make Pebble look dull by too many close-ups.

    They also seem inordinately obsessed with the Goofy Golf retaining walls that have been (recently?) added to keep the ocean at bay. If they couldn’t do any better at imitating the look of the actual cliffs than that, they should have gone with period- and region- appropriate actual walls. There is no shame in acknowledging the power of Mother Nature and man’s heroic efforts to ward her off, if only for a time.

    • Replies: @Lot
    Retaining walls on the coastline are very hard to get regulatory approval here, and San Diego is far more developer-friendly than Northern California.

    I don’t know if the CCC requires them to be ugly, but I’d also not blame the builder until looking into it.

    In Del Mar the way to do it is build it illegally and then either beg for forgiveness or else hope you can litigate it to death until new regulations permitting it pass. There is a street where 2 out of many houses don’t have illegal but grandfathered walls, and the owners of the two haven’t been able to get approved to build anything.
  12. – The Beautiful landscape is that in which it looks easy for humans to thrive (e.g., the Dutch countryside or the pleasant flat floor of Yosemite Valley or The Shire);
    – While the Sublime landscape is that which looks likely to kill you (e.g., the Alps or the cliffs of Yosemite Valley or Rivendell).

    Well put, although “easy” rankles my Protestant Work Ethic. It is good fortune indeed to find easy access to true beauty.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    The Dutch countryside took a lot of work to make it look easy to live in.
    , @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Re: sublime vs. beautiful, here is Wallace Stevens (who probably knew a bit about golf courses and country clubs) on the topic, from "Poetry Is A Destructive Force".....

    The lion sleeps in the sun.
    Its nose is on its paws.
    It can kill a man.
  13. Every time I see a spectacular golf course I’m reminded of the scene from Falling Down.

    It’s really too nice to waste on a few dozen duffer’s but you let in the vibrants and pretty soon you’ll have trash, horses and crack pipes.

  14. I played Pebble in 2006. Other than a temporary green on number 1, the course looked and played like the one I’d watched on TV. My caddy (and I agree a golfer should hire one) pointed out all the film star homes along the way, and gave me an excellent read on a putt at number 2, which I birdied. I stayed at the resort and paid $350 not including caddy. Well worth it for my bucket list. Also got up and down on number 18 for par.

  15. @Desiderius

    – The Beautiful landscape is that in which it looks easy for humans to thrive (e.g., the Dutch countryside or the pleasant flat floor of Yosemite Valley or The Shire);
    – While the Sublime landscape is that which looks likely to kill you (e.g., the Alps or the cliffs of Yosemite Valley or Rivendell).
     
    Well put, although "easy" rankles my Protestant Work Ethic. It is good fortune indeed to find easy access to true beauty.

    The Dutch countryside took a lot of work to make it look easy to live in.

  16. One thing I don’t see on the Pebble Beach site is whether golfers have to meet some minimum skill level in order to play. While possibly there is no such rule, I find that odd, I just don’t see complete clueless novices being allowed on the course.

    • Replies: @Apollo
    One of my friends got two rounds in on the course a couple of weekends ago with his father and grandfather, and I haven’t heard of him swinging the sticks for at least five years now. He used to be a relatively good golfer, but I imagine he was just hacking at it after this much time away from the game. And I figured that they were in the time period before a major tournament in which they would care more than usual. I assume that if there is any regulation of play quality it is self-reported before the round starts, and once you’re out there the caddies will just try and keep speed of play up.
  17. Yeah, without the Treaty of Hidalgo, Pebble Beach would likely be a used diaper dump, or a row of chop shops. So, well done Mr. Morse.

    I won’t pay $550 to play any course. In the end you’re paying for marketing and branding, not the actual golf. And if I paid that much and saw dead patches on the greens or hundreds of unfilled divots in the fairways I’d be pretty upset.

  18. When I was stationed at DLI, I worked at a golf tournament at Pebble Beach. It was not much fun, although the scenery was magnificent.

    • Replies: @Auntie Analogue
    My dear Hunsdon, when stationed in the early 70's at USNPGS a shipmate of mine tended bar at Pebble Beach's Bing Crosby Pro-Am Tournament. I accompanied him there on his pre-tourney visit to apply for the bartending gig. Because he was a job applicant the gate guard let him drive onto Seventeen Mile Drive free of charge, but I was shocked to see that the rich who own that tract of coastal property charged motorists $3.oo to drive on their streets (I've no idea what the fee is today).

    While stationed there I fell in love with the Monterey Peninsula, Carmel, Big Sur. Often I enjoyed walking the shoreline from Del Monte Boulevard to Asilomar and back to my USNPGS digs.
  19. @Desiderius

    – The Beautiful landscape is that in which it looks easy for humans to thrive (e.g., the Dutch countryside or the pleasant flat floor of Yosemite Valley or The Shire);
    – While the Sublime landscape is that which looks likely to kill you (e.g., the Alps or the cliffs of Yosemite Valley or Rivendell).
     
    Well put, although "easy" rankles my Protestant Work Ethic. It is good fortune indeed to find easy access to true beauty.

    Re: sublime vs. beautiful, here is Wallace Stevens (who probably knew a bit about golf courses and country clubs) on the topic, from “Poetry Is A Destructive Force”…..

    The lion sleeps in the sun.
    Its nose is on its paws.
    It can kill a man.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Didn't really beat around the bush, did he?

    Hemingway, the Stevens of prose.

    Pebble has precipices and roiling seas. The deadliness is there.
  20. …in 1973, the green’s fee was only $20 for anybody to walk on.

    That would be $115 in today’s dollars, so it’s gone up almost 400% in real terms. Kind of like university education.

    And banged it right off some rich guy’s door.

    This is probably why you won’t ever see professional baseball at Doubleday Field. It’s just a little too intimate.

    I was under the impression that Gene Hackman lived alongside a Pebble Beach fairway.

  21. In 1973 17 Mile Drive was a fairly open coastal road with, as Palo Alto says, stunning old CA arts and crafts / arroyo architecture, then mixed with well landscaped mid-century Sunset style ranch houses. Much of the new architecture is colossal but less charming and stylish, the opposite of rustic.

    Now you (non-residents) pay a $10.50 fee to drive the road. Don’t know when Pebble Beach started charging, but it seems a good marker of changed CA. This week, a pleasant inn in Carmel that’s ordinarily $165 a night is charging base $565 a night, I noticed the other day, thinking of a drive up the coast. (Will postpone a few days.)

  22. @Jonathan Mason
    The beach appears to be sand, like the bunkers, not pebble.

    This is what a pebble beach looks like.

    https://apparentlynothing.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/brightonbeach.jpg

    not this

    https://www.centrellainn.com/webart/listings/large/35_01.jpg

    I guess souvenir hunters took all the pebbles.

    I thought the same thing seeing the photo.

    Nice has a pebble beach. Not very easy on soft feet. Next door Monaco had one too, but imports sand for it, I believe by barge from Denmark.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    I thought the same thing seeing the photo.
     
    It would be interesting to know whether there was originally a pebble beach and if it was artificially sanded, although given the significance and cachet of the name Pebble Beach, that seems unlikely.

    The picture I posted is of Brighton Beach (UK). I went there a couple of times (I think) about 50 years ago and found to my surprise that there was no sand and that the beach was hard to walk on foot. Of course the stones were useful for souvenirs and paperweights if you could find one with a pleasing form.

    Brighton was a small fishing village for hundreds of years and then became a very fashionable summer resort. How did this happen without a sandy beach? Well first there was a craze for drinking seawater for health reasons that was promoted by local doctors. Presumably the clientele soon died off.

    Then the Prince Regent built the Royal Pavilion in Brighton as an ornate Oriental-style summer palace, though Queen Victoria didn't like the place so much when the railways brought many vulgar gawkers to the town by 1845, so she built a new residence on the Isle of Wight, which has a natural moat and was only accessible by ferry boat, (not thinking that it could be a cool place for a music festival).

    Today Brighton is still a popular resort, despite the lack of sand. The railways continue to bring the vulgar gawkers, but now it is the Naturist Beach close to the city center that is the main attraction, not the Royal Family. However many of the nudists wear sandals, due to the pebbles.

    https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0e/a2/3a/5b/the-boundary.jpg

    Had the city fathers built a municipal golf course, it could only have been Pebble Beach, but they built a volleyball court instead.
    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    The beach in Nice is nice, but the spread at Cannes is the real gem in that part of France.
  23. e says:

    Steve, I can’t recall, but there was a time when Pebble fell into awful shape. Can you refresh my memory when that was? Was it when the Japanese owned it or later, during a bad drought?

    I always thought I’d play it one day as it’s just a two hour drive away, but the truth is that I was afraid the fees would be wasted on a day that was likely to be one of those sideways rainy days or freezing cold. I hate golf in horrid weather. I get awful ear aches in the wind and was never a good enough golfer to feel that golf in awful weather was worth the experience.

    I’ve walked Spyglass during the At&t, but not Pebble.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I played Pebble Beach in the rain in December 1973. It wasn't all that much fun, but I got a few anecdotes out of it.

    The weather in fall is pretty close to perfect.

  24. Lot says:
    @Desiderius

    On the other hand, Fox on Saturday managed to make Pebble look dull by too many close-ups.
     
    They also seem inordinately obsessed with the Goofy Golf retaining walls that have been (recently?) added to keep the ocean at bay. If they couldn't do any better at imitating the look of the actual cliffs than that, they should have gone with period- and region- appropriate actual walls. There is no shame in acknowledging the power of Mother Nature and man's heroic efforts to ward her off, if only for a time.

    Retaining walls on the coastline are very hard to get regulatory approval here, and San Diego is far more developer-friendly than Northern California.

    I don’t know if the CCC requires them to be ugly, but I’d also not blame the builder until looking into it.

    In Del Mar the way to do it is build it illegally and then either beg for forgiveness or else hope you can litigate it to death until new regulations permitting it pass. There is a street where 2 out of many houses don’t have illegal but grandfathered walls, and the owners of the two haven’t been able to get approved to build anything.

    • Replies: @bomag

    ...the owners of the two haven’t been able to get approved to build anything.
     
    Our regulatory overlords are quite adept at freezing time and place when it comes to architecture and the built environment.

    They should put their efforts into freezing our demographics at what it was 100 years ago; especially since that will have a larger determination on what the landscape looks like long term.
    , @Desiderius

    Retaining walls on the coastline are very hard to get regulatory approval here, and San Diego is far more developer-friendly than Northern California.
     
    We're talking Pebble Beach here, not some nouveau riche techbro trying to get his mcmansion approved. Pretty sure they've got whatever pull they need and can call in bigger guns if necessary.
    , @Hodag
    The sea wall along 18 is new (last 10 -25 years?) But there is a lot of plasticized concrete sculpted to look like rock above high tide.

    The new 17th green is a wonder and well over due. 18 does not play like it did during the Clambake days - no more persimmon or balata.

    I am just very happy for prime time Major golf. I am also happy the USGA did not kill the greens this year.
  25. A nice change of pace for Fathers Day.

    bored identity only regrets that Uncle Sailer somehow forgot to remind us how this particular course should be in y’all bucket list.

  26. Ever play WGT computer golf? Virtual Pebble Beach looks very realistic compared to TV.

  27. Lot says:

    You can see the fees/rules for San Diego’s public coastal course here:

    https://www.torreypines.com/prices/

    $200 during the week, $250 on weekends.

    There are two other cheaper public courses, plus a cheaper 2nd course at Torrey Pines. The cheapest Mission Bay public course will eventually be closed and redeveloped.

  28. e says:

    Cypress Point, a private club, is said by many golf architects and pro golfers to be superior to Pebble. You don’t hear much talk of that any more as it’s not on the PGA Tour and God forbid anyone say Pebble has a superior.

    It used to be part of the trio of courses on the Monterey Peninsula used for the Crosby but because it had no black members at the time and because it was being pressured to add some, it pulled itself from the tournament, much to the dismay of the golfing public who loved a chance to visit it during the tournament.

    • Replies: @e
    Here are a few pics of Cypress Point holes: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/cypress-point-club
    , @Steve Sailer
    You can drive up behind the 13th tee at Cypress Point.

    But to get in the club, all you have to do is be a Republican Secretary of State.

    , @Desiderius
    Nantz painted himself into a corner laying it on thick about Pebble and St. Andrews being the two iconic golf courses in the world. Can’t think his employer was too happy about that estimation.
  29. ia says:

    I don’t know, Steve. Comparing a round of golf to the Sublime seems a little out there. You’re supposed to feel terror and infinite doubt (“the terrible uncertainty of the thing described”) when contemplating the Sublime, according to Burke; where one is overwhelmed by passion.

    Most guys aren’t going to want to sit down next to the ball washer and write The Ancient Mariner before teeing off on the 8th hole. Not unless they’ve been smoking an awful lot of opium. It’s just the wrong venue for that sort of thing.

  30. @Lot
    Retaining walls on the coastline are very hard to get regulatory approval here, and San Diego is far more developer-friendly than Northern California.

    I don’t know if the CCC requires them to be ugly, but I’d also not blame the builder until looking into it.

    In Del Mar the way to do it is build it illegally and then either beg for forgiveness or else hope you can litigate it to death until new regulations permitting it pass. There is a street where 2 out of many houses don’t have illegal but grandfathered walls, and the owners of the two haven’t been able to get approved to build anything.

    …the owners of the two haven’t been able to get approved to build anything.

    Our regulatory overlords are quite adept at freezing time and place when it comes to architecture and the built environment.

    They should put their efforts into freezing our demographics at what it was 100 years ago; especially since that will have a larger determination on what the landscape looks like long term.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting

    They should put their efforts into freezing our demographics at what it was 100 years ago; especially since that will have a larger determination on what the landscape looks like long term.
     
    Yup.

    I always laugh at the attempt to preserve architecture from some "historical period". The "historical architecture" of my area (New England) was teepees five hundred years ago...
  31. Steve, I played a course, forgot the name, on Myrtle Beach and there was a diver in scuba gear retrieving balls from one of the course’s water hazards. Full wet suit, but with a small comressor on land. I would not play a water retrieved ball, balls aren’t that expensive, but I think these went to driving ranges. Not really nice to put a hazard, 240 yards out, center of the fairway.

  32. @Jonathan Mason
    The beach appears to be sand, like the bunkers, not pebble.

    This is what a pebble beach looks like.

    https://apparentlynothing.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/brightonbeach.jpg

    not this

    https://www.centrellainn.com/webart/listings/large/35_01.jpg

    I guess souvenir hunters took all the pebbles.

    Hey, pebble, or sand- it ain’t matter…

    Y’all should fill out your bucket list with it, anyway.

  33. When you live in a great place like Pebble Beach it must really suck to die.

  34. @Jonathan Mason
    The beach appears to be sand, like the bunkers, not pebble.

    This is what a pebble beach looks like.

    https://apparentlynothing.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/brightonbeach.jpg

    not this

    https://www.centrellainn.com/webart/listings/large/35_01.jpg

    I guess souvenir hunters took all the pebbles.

    Slightly OT (but right in Steve’s zone):

    Maybe this “Michigan woman” (!!!) was looking for souvenirs on the beach in Florida?

    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/06/16/florida-sea-turtle-nest-hudsonville-michigan/39588013/

  35. @e
    Cypress Point, a private club, is said by many golf architects and pro golfers to be superior to Pebble. You don't hear much talk of that any more as it's not on the PGA Tour and God forbid anyone say Pebble has a superior.

    It used to be part of the trio of courses on the Monterey Peninsula used for the Crosby but because it had no black members at the time and because it was being pressured to add some, it pulled itself from the tournament, much to the dismay of the golfing public who loved a chance to visit it during the tournament.

    Here are a few pics of Cypress Point holes: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/cypress-point-club

  36. @Lot
    Retaining walls on the coastline are very hard to get regulatory approval here, and San Diego is far more developer-friendly than Northern California.

    I don’t know if the CCC requires them to be ugly, but I’d also not blame the builder until looking into it.

    In Del Mar the way to do it is build it illegally and then either beg for forgiveness or else hope you can litigate it to death until new regulations permitting it pass. There is a street where 2 out of many houses don’t have illegal but grandfathered walls, and the owners of the two haven’t been able to get approved to build anything.

    Retaining walls on the coastline are very hard to get regulatory approval here, and San Diego is far more developer-friendly than Northern California.

    We’re talking Pebble Beach here, not some nouveau riche techbro trying to get his mcmansion approved. Pretty sure they’ve got whatever pull they need and can call in bigger guns if necessary.

  37. @Lot
    I thought the same thing seeing the photo.

    Nice has a pebble beach. Not very easy on soft feet. Next door Monaco had one too, but imports sand for it, I believe by barge from Denmark.

    I thought the same thing seeing the photo.

    It would be interesting to know whether there was originally a pebble beach and if it was artificially sanded, although given the significance and cachet of the name Pebble Beach, that seems unlikely.

    The picture I posted is of Brighton Beach (UK). I went there a couple of times (I think) about 50 years ago and found to my surprise that there was no sand and that the beach was hard to walk on foot. Of course the stones were useful for souvenirs and paperweights if you could find one with a pleasing form.

    Brighton was a small fishing village for hundreds of years and then became a very fashionable summer resort. How did this happen without a sandy beach? Well first there was a craze for drinking seawater for health reasons that was promoted by local doctors. Presumably the clientele soon died off.

    Then the Prince Regent built the Royal Pavilion in Brighton as an ornate Oriental-style summer palace, though Queen Victoria didn’t like the place so much when the railways brought many vulgar gawkers to the town by 1845, so she built a new residence on the Isle of Wight, which has a natural moat and was only accessible by ferry boat, (not thinking that it could be a cool place for a music festival).

    Today Brighton is still a popular resort, despite the lack of sand. The railways continue to bring the vulgar gawkers, but now it is the Naturist Beach close to the city center that is the main attraction, not the Royal Family. However many of the nudists wear sandals, due to the pebbles.

    Had the city fathers built a municipal golf course, it could only have been Pebble Beach, but they built a volleyball court instead.

    • Replies: @Lot
    “However many of the nudists wear sandals, due to the pebbles.”

    Pebble beaches don’t look uncomfortable if you’ve never been to one. I just ran right toward the ocean like I normally do. ouch ouch ouch.

    The article I read a long time ago about Monaco importing its sand made it seem expensive since it keeps getting washed away.
  38. After 3 rounds:
    Gary Woodland -11
    Justin Rose -10
    Brooks Koepka -7
    Tiger Woods E

    Most of the media attention has been about Tiger even though he is out of the picture.
    I would like to see Koepka have a strong 4th round and contend for the championship,
    which would be his 3rd U.S. Open in a row if he won.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    If Tiger had gone 4 under on the first six (as Koepka did) rather than 4 over, he’d have tied second with a 61.
  39. • LOL: jim jones
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Thanks Rosie

    https://youtu.be/MGemtjVtfZM
  40. Happy Father’s Day, Steve. This is a fine subtle tribute post to your dad.

    • Agree: MEH 0910, Desiderius
  41. Lot says:

    Menopause for butt-kicking babes trend?

    Fourth Men in Black movie, with a black/latina woman replacing Tommy Lee Jones, opens at a disappointing $28 million. All three of the prior MIB films opened above $50 million.

    https://variety.com/2019/film/news/men-in-black-international-box-office-opening-weekend-shaft-1203244814/amp/

    Interestingly, you can see how important the foreign market is to Hollywood, especially for action blockbusters. In an English language film with no asian stars, China box office was about the same as the US one:

    “The movie picked up $73.7 million at international markets, making International’s global haul an estimated $102.2 million. China led the markets with $26.3 million, followed by South Korea ($4.9 million, distributed by Lotte), Japan ($3.5 million) and Mexico ($3.9 million). ”

  42. Samuel Morse was the inventor of the telegraph

    Only in the same sense that Columbus proved the world was round.

  43. Steve, we need a Father’s Day thread, and some more wholesome shots of the Sailer pater familias from times gone by.

  44. Lot says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    I thought the same thing seeing the photo.
     
    It would be interesting to know whether there was originally a pebble beach and if it was artificially sanded, although given the significance and cachet of the name Pebble Beach, that seems unlikely.

    The picture I posted is of Brighton Beach (UK). I went there a couple of times (I think) about 50 years ago and found to my surprise that there was no sand and that the beach was hard to walk on foot. Of course the stones were useful for souvenirs and paperweights if you could find one with a pleasing form.

    Brighton was a small fishing village for hundreds of years and then became a very fashionable summer resort. How did this happen without a sandy beach? Well first there was a craze for drinking seawater for health reasons that was promoted by local doctors. Presumably the clientele soon died off.

    Then the Prince Regent built the Royal Pavilion in Brighton as an ornate Oriental-style summer palace, though Queen Victoria didn't like the place so much when the railways brought many vulgar gawkers to the town by 1845, so she built a new residence on the Isle of Wight, which has a natural moat and was only accessible by ferry boat, (not thinking that it could be a cool place for a music festival).

    Today Brighton is still a popular resort, despite the lack of sand. The railways continue to bring the vulgar gawkers, but now it is the Naturist Beach close to the city center that is the main attraction, not the Royal Family. However many of the nudists wear sandals, due to the pebbles.

    https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0e/a2/3a/5b/the-boundary.jpg

    Had the city fathers built a municipal golf course, it could only have been Pebble Beach, but they built a volleyball court instead.

    “However many of the nudists wear sandals, due to the pebbles.”

    Pebble beaches don’t look uncomfortable if you’ve never been to one. I just ran right toward the ocean like I normally do. ouch ouch ouch.

    The article I read a long time ago about Monaco importing its sand made it seem expensive since it keeps getting washed away.

  45. easy for humans to thrive (e.g., the Dutch countryside

    Dutch countryside is below sea level. Windmills aren’t just for jousting practice.

  46. One of the best sandy beaches to walk until you sort things out. Ideal stop for the long drives north/south along the coast, but it was a loss when the excellent German restaurant closed.

  47. @Lot
    I thought the same thing seeing the photo.

    Nice has a pebble beach. Not very easy on soft feet. Next door Monaco had one too, but imports sand for it, I believe by barge from Denmark.

    The beach in Nice is nice, but the spread at Cannes is the real gem in that part of France.

  48. Maybe the public would enjoy courses that aren’t so ostentatiously beautiful. I love Pebble, but putting a golf course on this site does seem a little profane from a certain viewpoint.

    What about courses on wasteland or ugly land nobody wants? What else could you do with that scrubland in Scotland, for example? Scots wouldn’t waste valuable land on a game, even golf. They already build on top of old dumps and near airports (not that they build many courses anymore. Closings are epidemic, and this gc builder I interviewed said most of the business is in renovations.)

    There are courses in Africa with black greens made by pouring heavy fuel oil on sand and letting it soak in. I think they have them in Texas and places like that, too. They could tee off over the Springfield Tire Yard fire, or hit through a windmill field.

    That might be fun to watch, esp. when some of the tour players are a little, shall we say, fussy when it comes to course conditions.

    Also, so many of the really great courses are too short for the pros now anyway. Pity. They should make rules for the new equipment, but they won’t because golf guys think next quarter’s equip sales, not next century’s game.

    • Replies: @Ghost of Bull Moose
    * I understand this idea would not be good for aesthetics, club memberships, corporate sponsors or TV demos. Not all the courses should be ugly, just mix one in. I'd love to see a pro's putt sent offline by an aeration pellet, like you get on janky public courses. People could relate.
    , @Jonathan Mason

    Maybe the public would enjoy courses that aren’t so ostentatiously beautiful.
     
    I can't see why. Half the attraction of golf is that whether you are present on the course or watching on TV, you see lots of people gathered in a beautiful place for a sporting contest, hopefully on a beautiful summer day in some place where there is ocean, rivers, mountain views, etc. that one can vicariously enjoy.

    What would be the attraction of ugly golf?
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Maybe the public would enjoy courses that aren’t so ostentatiously beautiful.
     
    A red clay course in Georgia would be fun. Big old colored ladies could bring you juleps on a tray. When they take their break, you could watch them eat the sand traps.

    The Old And Mysterious Practice Of Eating Dirt, Revealed

    , @Hodag
    The best public course in Chicagoland is called The Highlands of Elgin built on a former gravel/sand stripmine. Raw and obvious earthmoving (a la Steamshovel Banks) but wonderful. Keith Foster did a wonderful job.
  49. The TV coverage suffers from the bias for 6-10. Scoring runs on the inland holes aren’t shown live.

  50. @Hunsdon
    When I was stationed at DLI, I worked at a golf tournament at Pebble Beach. It was not much fun, although the scenery was magnificent.

    My dear Hunsdon, when stationed in the early 70’s at USNPGS a shipmate of mine tended bar at Pebble Beach’s Bing Crosby Pro-Am Tournament. I accompanied him there on his pre-tourney visit to apply for the bartending gig. Because he was a job applicant the gate guard let him drive onto Seventeen Mile Drive free of charge, but I was shocked to see that the rich who own that tract of coastal property charged motorists $3.oo to drive on their streets (I’ve no idea what the fee is today).

    While stationed there I fell in love with the Monterey Peninsula, Carmel, Big Sur. Often I enjoyed walking the shoreline from Del Monte Boulevard to Asilomar and back to my USNPGS digs.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Surely you understand that if we didn't charge others to enter our paradise, the Forest would be overrun with undesirables? Actually it is anyway, but at least the absolutely indigent are kept out.

    Everybody here is for effective borders, so don't you dare complain.
    , @AnotherDad

    While stationed there I fell in love with the Monterey Peninsula, Carmel, Big Sur. Often I enjoyed walking the shoreline from Del Monte Boulevard to Asilomar and back to my USNPGS digs.
     
    The 70s was nice wasn't it--when California was still part of America.
    , @Hunsdon
    I have many fond memories of the time I spent on the Monterey Peninsula. It was always nice to be able to go down to the beach, sit on a rock and watch the surf come in, rent a kayak and paddle around the bay, and many many other things along those lines. It is truly one of the most beautiful places I have ever been, and I mourn the doubtless deleterious changes that have occurred since I left.
  51. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    Maybe the public would enjoy courses that aren't so ostentatiously beautiful. I love Pebble, but putting a golf course on this site does seem a little profane from a certain viewpoint.

    What about courses on wasteland or ugly land nobody wants? What else could you do with that scrubland in Scotland, for example? Scots wouldn't waste valuable land on a game, even golf. They already build on top of old dumps and near airports (not that they build many courses anymore. Closings are epidemic, and this gc builder I interviewed said most of the business is in renovations.)

    There are courses in Africa with black greens made by pouring heavy fuel oil on sand and letting it soak in. I think they have them in Texas and places like that, too. They could tee off over the Springfield Tire Yard fire, or hit through a windmill field.

    That might be fun to watch, esp. when some of the tour players are a little, shall we say, fussy when it comes to course conditions.

    Also, so many of the really great courses are too short for the pros now anyway. Pity. They should make rules for the new equipment, but they won't because golf guys think next quarter's equip sales, not next century's game.

    * I understand this idea would not be good for aesthetics, club memberships, corporate sponsors or TV demos. Not all the courses should be ugly, just mix one in. I’d love to see a pro’s putt sent offline by an aeration pellet, like you get on janky public courses. People could relate.

  52. I dont buy into in Georges Carlins beliefs… He is funny .. thats it.!!!! He is correct about golf… I could care less about the race or homeless factor. Homeless are homeless for a reason. Blacks are not golfers because we dont want humans murdered on the fucking golf couse . Its that simple.

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=george+carlin+on+golf&view=detail&mid=7B3494C94B2F3F89D05B7B3494C94B2F3F89D05B&FORM=VIRE

  53. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    Maybe the public would enjoy courses that aren't so ostentatiously beautiful. I love Pebble, but putting a golf course on this site does seem a little profane from a certain viewpoint.

    What about courses on wasteland or ugly land nobody wants? What else could you do with that scrubland in Scotland, for example? Scots wouldn't waste valuable land on a game, even golf. They already build on top of old dumps and near airports (not that they build many courses anymore. Closings are epidemic, and this gc builder I interviewed said most of the business is in renovations.)

    There are courses in Africa with black greens made by pouring heavy fuel oil on sand and letting it soak in. I think they have them in Texas and places like that, too. They could tee off over the Springfield Tire Yard fire, or hit through a windmill field.

    That might be fun to watch, esp. when some of the tour players are a little, shall we say, fussy when it comes to course conditions.

    Also, so many of the really great courses are too short for the pros now anyway. Pity. They should make rules for the new equipment, but they won't because golf guys think next quarter's equip sales, not next century's game.

    Maybe the public would enjoy courses that aren’t so ostentatiously beautiful.

    I can’t see why. Half the attraction of golf is that whether you are present on the course or watching on TV, you see lots of people gathered in a beautiful place for a sporting contest, hopefully on a beautiful summer day in some place where there is ocean, rivers, mountain views, etc. that one can vicariously enjoy.

    What would be the attraction of ugly golf?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    What would be the attraction of ugly golf?
     
    Low fees and short waits.


    Playing a 'round' near the DMZ


    https://www.f-106deltadart.com/Korea-DMZ/photos/golf-course/sep01_dmz_golfhole-2_small.jpg

    , @Ghost of Bull Moose
    Well, it's tongue in cheek.

    There is a lot more hostility towards golf as a sport than any other. Esp with the Current Year stuff. It's class based, but also the people they hate the most love golf the most.
    , @Intelligent Dasein

    What would be the attraction of ugly golf?
     
    It seems like half the attraction of the game consists just in the Homeric epithets borne by the courses. Pebble Beach, Spyglass Hill, Cypress Point---the purpose of these monikers is to sooth the nerves and relax the bent bow. While not exactly poetry themselves, they serve to put the hearer in a vaguely poetic frame of mind where he becomes suggestible and receptive to certain messages. In other words, they are a form of hypnosis; and the suggestion carried by this hypnosis is "You deserve to experience luxury and this is it."

    A certain amount of this emotional colorant is necessary to enjoy the game, either as a player or a spectator. For if you were to simply experience the sand and the grass in their "naked" forms---i.e. in themselves as unrelated to a particular structuring of your own will---then you would wonder what was the point of standing out there swinging a club around. The golf course, for from being simply "a place to play golf" is the projection into the world of an entire mood and vision, and the name of the course is, so to speak, the verbal architecture of the front gate to this garden path. Once inside the temple complex, you are conducted ceremonially from hole to hole until you reach an end point of final libations (and a gift shop). It is a somewhat vulgar form of piety, but very much in keeping with the pseudoreligious trinket-trading of Mainline Protestantism and the untrue Buddhisms of Leftist enclaves.

    Like any popular cult, golf has swollen to a point of almost unbelievable zealotry and fervor and will, like the Roman Isis worship, fade out again without leaving hardly a trace of its former intensity. However, it will at least be a very environmentally neutral sort of collapse, since golf courses will leave no monumental ruins behind them, tending rather to just get overgrown and lost.
  54. @prosa123
    One thing I don't see on the Pebble Beach site is whether golfers have to meet some minimum skill level in order to play. While possibly there is no such rule, I find that odd, I just don't see complete clueless novices being allowed on the course.

    One of my friends got two rounds in on the course a couple of weekends ago with his father and grandfather, and I haven’t heard of him swinging the sticks for at least five years now. He used to be a relatively good golfer, but I imagine he was just hacking at it after this much time away from the game. And I figured that they were in the time period before a major tournament in which they would care more than usual. I assume that if there is any regulation of play quality it is self-reported before the round starts, and once you’re out there the caddies will just try and keep speed of play up.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    wwebd said: I am pretty bad at hitting the fairway with my woods so when I am with my friends on a course that is not totally deserted (and I play lots of deserted courses) I play best ball - in order to keep the speed of play going, I only hit with a five iron where a pro golfer would use a wood ----- if my five iron (typically around 200 yards near the middle of the fairway, a little more if a little errant) is in a better spot than the wayward wood tee shot, I will play it from where it lays, otherwise I will just pick up and catch up.

    Except at the most competitive level, Rules are for losers.

    also I no longer have a bucket list for golf courses I have played at all the ones PG Wodehouse played at in America and I am not going to play golf in England

  55. Anonymous[377] • Disclaimer says:

    Please correct this typo:

    Edmund Burke in 1757 write about the Sublime vs. the Beautiful.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Typo, or Stebonics?
  56. OT

    BBC: Golan Heights: Israel unveils ‘Trump Heights’ settlement

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48656431?fbclid=IwAR1NikQIAdHPExOcdDEbNyTDvfmRUyt-nLWteLmfC62GE245VNOPSMo5-lg

    Anybody wanna go in with me on a timeshare? 😉

  57. @Rosie
    https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server1200/c0654/products/20702/images/46413/55864__77980__33494.1554830578.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

    Thanks Rosie

    • LOL: Rosie
  58. I thought this was going to be about cars. Disappointed.

    • Replies: @danand

    "I thought this was going to be about cars. Disappointed."
     
    Harold, you had to know our intrepid host was approaching this topic with a wedge, not a driver.

    I was fortunate enough to be on the Pebble greens last August, with the cars. It was a little cheaper than playing a round; and as I'm a duffer golfer, time better spent. Having not been back to the event in a couple of decades I was taken aback at what a circus the whole Monterey car week has become. Masses as far as the eye could see, Italian engines constantly revving near and far. Spotted north of 100 Aventadors, a dozen Panoz's & Veyrons, and hardly saw 'em all. Also of interest, at least to me, were the number of YouTube "celebrities" around, along with the entourages gathered around them.

    It was the classics though that I primarily went to ogle. Over the years my taste has turned more and more "low-brow". My heart now races faster for a nice '59 Buick than a LaFerrari. Lately I've really started to go off on the deep end. I find myself watching "Lowrider Roll Models" episodes on 'Tube. Maybe it's driven by nostalgia for the way California once was?
  59. I was under the impression that Gene Hackman lived alongside a Pebble Beach fairway

    Are you sure it wasn’t Hackman’s door your dad hit?

    Or maybe he didn’t like being pestered by fans the way he pestered Dick Van Dyke and Donald O’Connor, his big brother’s buddies, when they were kids in Danville.

    Santa Fe doesn’t sound like a place full of aficionados of Gene’s movies. He may have felt safely anonymous there.

  60. @Auntie Analogue
    My dear Hunsdon, when stationed in the early 70's at USNPGS a shipmate of mine tended bar at Pebble Beach's Bing Crosby Pro-Am Tournament. I accompanied him there on his pre-tourney visit to apply for the bartending gig. Because he was a job applicant the gate guard let him drive onto Seventeen Mile Drive free of charge, but I was shocked to see that the rich who own that tract of coastal property charged motorists $3.oo to drive on their streets (I've no idea what the fee is today).

    While stationed there I fell in love with the Monterey Peninsula, Carmel, Big Sur. Often I enjoyed walking the shoreline from Del Monte Boulevard to Asilomar and back to my USNPGS digs.

    Surely you understand that if we didn’t charge others to enter our paradise, the Forest would be overrun with undesirables? Actually it is anyway, but at least the absolutely indigent are kept out.

    Everybody here is for effective borders, so don’t you dare complain.

    • Replies: @Dtbb
    I always wonder what local "charities" do with all the millions raised by the AT&T tournament. I believe the money must be spent locally. Ship em a caravan or five I say. Tent cities for the courses like that article said months ago.
  61. @Anonymous
    Please correct this typo:

    Edmund Burke in 1757 write about the Sublime vs. the Beautiful.
     

    Typo, or Stebonics?

  62. @Jonathan Mason

    Maybe the public would enjoy courses that aren’t so ostentatiously beautiful.
     
    I can't see why. Half the attraction of golf is that whether you are present on the course or watching on TV, you see lots of people gathered in a beautiful place for a sporting contest, hopefully on a beautiful summer day in some place where there is ocean, rivers, mountain views, etc. that one can vicariously enjoy.

    What would be the attraction of ugly golf?

    What would be the attraction of ugly golf?

    Low fees and short waits.

    Playing a ’round’ near the DMZ

  63. @Jonathan Mason

    Maybe the public would enjoy courses that aren’t so ostentatiously beautiful.
     
    I can't see why. Half the attraction of golf is that whether you are present on the course or watching on TV, you see lots of people gathered in a beautiful place for a sporting contest, hopefully on a beautiful summer day in some place where there is ocean, rivers, mountain views, etc. that one can vicariously enjoy.

    What would be the attraction of ugly golf?

    Well, it’s tongue in cheek.

    There is a lot more hostility towards golf as a sport than any other. Esp with the Current Year stuff. It’s class based, but also the people they hate the most love golf the most.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    There is a lot more hostility towards golf as a sport than any other
     
    It did go into remission for a few years, though. Eight, to be exact.



    https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/ap_obama_vacation_65752874.jpg?w=768&h=461&crop=1
  64. @e
    Cypress Point, a private club, is said by many golf architects and pro golfers to be superior to Pebble. You don't hear much talk of that any more as it's not on the PGA Tour and God forbid anyone say Pebble has a superior.

    It used to be part of the trio of courses on the Monterey Peninsula used for the Crosby but because it had no black members at the time and because it was being pressured to add some, it pulled itself from the tournament, much to the dismay of the golfing public who loved a chance to visit it during the tournament.

    You can drive up behind the 13th tee at Cypress Point.

    But to get in the club, all you have to do is be a Republican Secretary of State.

    • Replies: @e
    I knew Condi Rice became a member at Augusta, didn't know about Cypress Point. Eastwood is a member there.
  65. @e
    Steve, I can't recall, but there was a time when Pebble fell into awful shape. Can you refresh my memory when that was? Was it when the Japanese owned it or later, during a bad drought?

    I always thought I'd play it one day as it's just a two hour drive away, but the truth is that I was afraid the fees would be wasted on a day that was likely to be one of those sideways rainy days or freezing cold. I hate golf in horrid weather. I get awful ear aches in the wind and was never a good enough golfer to feel that golf in awful weather was worth the experience.

    I've walked Spyglass during the At&t, but not Pebble.

    I played Pebble Beach in the rain in December 1973. It wasn’t all that much fun, but I got a few anecdotes out of it.

    The weather in fall is pretty close to perfect.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Watching the pros hit it this week feels like the old persimmon days.
  66. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    Maybe the public would enjoy courses that aren't so ostentatiously beautiful. I love Pebble, but putting a golf course on this site does seem a little profane from a certain viewpoint.

    What about courses on wasteland or ugly land nobody wants? What else could you do with that scrubland in Scotland, for example? Scots wouldn't waste valuable land on a game, even golf. They already build on top of old dumps and near airports (not that they build many courses anymore. Closings are epidemic, and this gc builder I interviewed said most of the business is in renovations.)

    There are courses in Africa with black greens made by pouring heavy fuel oil on sand and letting it soak in. I think they have them in Texas and places like that, too. They could tee off over the Springfield Tire Yard fire, or hit through a windmill field.

    That might be fun to watch, esp. when some of the tour players are a little, shall we say, fussy when it comes to course conditions.

    Also, so many of the really great courses are too short for the pros now anyway. Pity. They should make rules for the new equipment, but they won't because golf guys think next quarter's equip sales, not next century's game.

    Maybe the public would enjoy courses that aren’t so ostentatiously beautiful.

    A red clay course in Georgia would be fun. Big old colored ladies could bring you juleps on a tray. When they take their break, you could watch them eat the sand traps.

    The Old And Mysterious Practice Of Eating Dirt, Revealed

  67. @Old Palo Altan
    Surely you understand that if we didn't charge others to enter our paradise, the Forest would be overrun with undesirables? Actually it is anyway, but at least the absolutely indigent are kept out.

    Everybody here is for effective borders, so don't you dare complain.

    I always wonder what local “charities” do with all the millions raised by the AT&T tournament. I believe the money must be spent locally. Ship em a caravan or five I say. Tent cities for the courses like that article said months ago.

  68. This has nothing to do with Pebble Beach, but…

    Recently I’ve been reading accounts of Casanova’s life, just to check if my impression of the era- after reading his 3,500 pages memoir decades ago- was correct. Well- in my current opinion, it was. Casanova was an interesting & intriguing man, but basically shallow as the entire century he epitomized.

    The 18th C was an enormously important century, perhaps the turning point in past 500 years world history. But, it was- with its Classicism, Rococo etc- “small”, with silly wigs, superficial & down to earth, “practical”, emotionally underdeveloped, intellectually not courageous enough. Not a century of geniuses, except in mathematics (Euler).

    In philosophy, it did produce Kant, but I’m not sure he’s of the stature of Leibniz or Spinoza (most will disagree with me). It was all, with Hume and Kant, anthropocentric & somehow … “not enough”. By the way, Kant also wrote essay on the beautiful & the sublime.

    In music, the archetypal 18th C composer, Mozart defies & defeats my dissatisfaction. True, Bach died in 1750., but he belongs to a different era, as does Beethoven to the later.

    In writing, Voltaire as the central 18th C author is small compared to the great Renaissance & Baroque authors, as well as chief 19th C writers.

    With visual arts, it is Watteau, Tiepolo,..all 2nd rate.

    I know this is one those nasty generalizations, but is there something connecting American supreme success in the world & her creative second-ratedness, not just in art, but in all fields except technology?

    Something cruel, along the lines what late John Updike said about American literature & life…

    How many of our classics, notoriously, deal not with American society but with its asocial margins—a whale hunt on the high seas, a refugee boy and a black slave on a river raft, the outcast Hester Prynne, the expatriate heroes of Hemingway and Henry James, seeking fulfillment and aesthetic satisfaction everywhere but at home in the United States. A critic can make too much of this; but assume it is somewhat true—what might the reasons be? Let me propose four.

    One, with exceptions like Washington Irving and William Dean Howells, who tend to bore posterity, the American writer has few traditional ties to the power establishment of the country, and ordinarily distrusts and scorns its politicians, businessmen, bureaucrats, managers, and even its workers—all those, in short, who make the society go are dismissed by a Puritan idealism that sees the compromises and maneuvers of bourgeois striving as unworthy of sympathetic consideration. Two, the ideal of a classless society, in which there is no aristocracy, no peasantry, no servant class, in a perverse way makes us less accessible to one another, by depriving our imaginations of those colorful badges and mannerisms and assigned duties with which characterization can begin. Three, the very triumph of American popular culture in this century coats the individual, whom the writer would hold up to cultural study, in an impervious skin of cultural cliché; the crises of will and desire that occupy nineteenth-century novels are as it were kidded away by the image-saturated modern consciousness, which has pre-experienced everything, in a trivializing and dulling abundance of unearned sophistication: this weariness of knowingness was wonderfully captured in the fiction of the late Donald Barthelme. And four, perhaps a culture that never had a pagan or medieval epoch doesn’t leave one much to say about being human; when, in a nation soundly founded on eighteenth-century rationalism and nineteenth-century laws of material exchange, Homo sapiens has been stripped of superstitious loyalties and quixotic delusions, what is left is a bald consumer, an animal of purely selfish appetites and purely biological motives whose genetically determined life-events scarcely warrant the glamorization of fiction.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Enlightenment was great, but so was the subsequent Romantic reaction to the Enlightenment.
    , @ia
    Voltaire supposedly said England had a hundred religions and one sauce.
    , @anonymous
    wwebd said: fascinating comment.

    Replying in part to the comment, and leaving aside the Updike quote:


    it is not just Mozart, there are about a dozen composers who often wrote at Mozart level in the 18th century.

    In Russia, Pushkin (born 1799, considered rather conservative in the early 19th century) is considered their greatest poet. Not by a little, but by a lot. So Russians have a lot more respect for the 18th century, as a century of genius-level art, than many non-Russians ......

    Richardson (the guy who wrote Clarissa Harlowe) was a better novelist than any Englishman who lived after him, and of course Jane Austen is one of the only novelists of early days who is still widely read. Both were 18th century authors, at heart .... and both were real geniuses, while Voltaire, as amusing as he was back in the day, was not

    As for painting, well, every century has produced thousands of wonderful paintings and tens of thousands of wonderful drawings, and one would really have to have an almost supernatural understanding of art history to be able to say that one century had less genius than any other century, except of course for the decades when Titian was young .... I will not argue with anyone who says those were years when human art as expressed in paintings was almost angelic. But Chardin and Reynolds and a few others were also close to angelic in inspiration ....

    back to the Updike quote: he expressed what he was trying to say fairly well, he was a clever person.

    , @Desiderius

    is there something connecting American supreme success in the world & her creative second-ratedness, not just in art, but in all fields except technology?
     
    Yes.

    We’re getting your bolded part right now good and hard. Careful what you wish for.
  69. On the other hand, Fox on Saturday managed to make Pebble look dull by too many close-ups.

    I had a similar reaction, but wasn’t this mostly just “June gloom”?

    The course really pops with the contrast–fairways, oceans, cliffs, greens–in sunlight. And it’s been a June gloom weekend.

  70. @Steve Sailer
    I played Pebble Beach in the rain in December 1973. It wasn't all that much fun, but I got a few anecdotes out of it.

    The weather in fall is pretty close to perfect.

    Watching the pros hit it this week feels like the old persimmon days.

  71. @Jonathan Mason
    The beach appears to be sand, like the bunkers, not pebble.

    This is what a pebble beach looks like.

    https://apparentlynothing.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/brightonbeach.jpg

    not this

    https://www.centrellainn.com/webart/listings/large/35_01.jpg

    I guess souvenir hunters took all the pebbles.

    I’d place the top picture on the English Channel, near Hastings.

  72. @Lot
    Retaining walls on the coastline are very hard to get regulatory approval here, and San Diego is far more developer-friendly than Northern California.

    I don’t know if the CCC requires them to be ugly, but I’d also not blame the builder until looking into it.

    In Del Mar the way to do it is build it illegally and then either beg for forgiveness or else hope you can litigate it to death until new regulations permitting it pass. There is a street where 2 out of many houses don’t have illegal but grandfathered walls, and the owners of the two haven’t been able to get approved to build anything.

    The sea wall along 18 is new (last 10 -25 years?) But there is a lot of plasticized concrete sculpted to look like rock above high tide.

    The new 17th green is a wonder and well over due. 18 does not play like it did during the Clambake days – no more persimmon or balata.

    I am just very happy for prime time Major golf. I am also happy the USGA did not kill the greens this year.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Woodland’s putt on 18 put him 1 up on Tiger’s legendary 2000 score, so someone’s going to be unhappy. Plus that amateur breaking Jack’s record.
  73. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    Maybe the public would enjoy courses that aren't so ostentatiously beautiful. I love Pebble, but putting a golf course on this site does seem a little profane from a certain viewpoint.

    What about courses on wasteland or ugly land nobody wants? What else could you do with that scrubland in Scotland, for example? Scots wouldn't waste valuable land on a game, even golf. They already build on top of old dumps and near airports (not that they build many courses anymore. Closings are epidemic, and this gc builder I interviewed said most of the business is in renovations.)

    There are courses in Africa with black greens made by pouring heavy fuel oil on sand and letting it soak in. I think they have them in Texas and places like that, too. They could tee off over the Springfield Tire Yard fire, or hit through a windmill field.

    That might be fun to watch, esp. when some of the tour players are a little, shall we say, fussy when it comes to course conditions.

    Also, so many of the really great courses are too short for the pros now anyway. Pity. They should make rules for the new equipment, but they won't because golf guys think next quarter's equip sales, not next century's game.

    The best public course in Chicagoland is called The Highlands of Elgin built on a former gravel/sand stripmine. Raw and obvious earthmoving (a la Steamshovel Banks) but wonderful. Keith Foster did a wonderful job.

  74. @Auntie Analogue
    My dear Hunsdon, when stationed in the early 70's at USNPGS a shipmate of mine tended bar at Pebble Beach's Bing Crosby Pro-Am Tournament. I accompanied him there on his pre-tourney visit to apply for the bartending gig. Because he was a job applicant the gate guard let him drive onto Seventeen Mile Drive free of charge, but I was shocked to see that the rich who own that tract of coastal property charged motorists $3.oo to drive on their streets (I've no idea what the fee is today).

    While stationed there I fell in love with the Monterey Peninsula, Carmel, Big Sur. Often I enjoyed walking the shoreline from Del Monte Boulevard to Asilomar and back to my USNPGS digs.

    While stationed there I fell in love with the Monterey Peninsula, Carmel, Big Sur. Often I enjoyed walking the shoreline from Del Monte Boulevard to Asilomar and back to my USNPGS digs.

    The 70s was nice wasn’t it–when California was still part of America.

    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Yup. Have a look at the opening credits to "Play Misty for Me" (1971):

    https://youtu.be/Vp8iXNAG9cc
    , @danand
    "The 70s was nice wasn’t it–when California was still part of America."

    AnotherDad, from my vantage it seems California was really only "California" during the 50's thru the 70's, and then really got going with the "divergence" from America in 90's. That coinciding with the tech driven stock market bubble which popped in 2001. Prior to Y2K people I know rarely left California for reasons other that job relocation or escaping the long arm. For the past couple of decades the most common reason I'm aware of is economic; too poor to stay, or too well off not to leave.

    Prior to ~2000, the common refrain here was "as California goes, so goes the nation". Since ~2000 what I hear most often is that California is spreading it's "disease" to the rest of the nation. Seems neither are ideal for Americas future, but given history, I'd be hesitant to have to bet against that outcome; at least as long as there still is an America.
  75. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    Well, it's tongue in cheek.

    There is a lot more hostility towards golf as a sport than any other. Esp with the Current Year stuff. It's class based, but also the people they hate the most love golf the most.

    There is a lot more hostility towards golf as a sport than any other

    It did go into remission for a few years, though. Eight, to be exact.

  76. Sailer hates George Carlin..because Carlin hates golf faggots.

  77. anonymous[751] • Disclaimer says:

    I like to think Steve’s golf posting is just an ironic wink that he’s woke on the boomer question.

    hyuck, hyuck, white boomers flushing their country and their children down the toilet but hey at least we can enjoy these artificial white outposts by playing stick and ball games like children while we pretend we didn’t abandon our country and our people’s future.

  78. @Steve Sailer
    You can drive up behind the 13th tee at Cypress Point.

    But to get in the club, all you have to do is be a Republican Secretary of State.

    I knew Condi Rice became a member at Augusta, didn’t know about Cypress Point. Eastwood is a member there.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    George Schultz and Caspar Weinberger too. Basically, be a Republican Secretary of State or Secretary of Defense and you've got a shot at membership at Cypress Point.
  79. @AnotherDad

    While stationed there I fell in love with the Monterey Peninsula, Carmel, Big Sur. Often I enjoyed walking the shoreline from Del Monte Boulevard to Asilomar and back to my USNPGS digs.
     
    The 70s was nice wasn't it--when California was still part of America.

    Yup. Have a look at the opening credits to “Play Misty for Me” (1971):

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    Clint Eastwood did his army service near there at Fort Ord. He was a swimming instructor.
  80. Joe Buck and Paul Azinger….nothing but cliches. Buck ruins every sport he announces but Fox makes him their number 1 guy on football, baseball, golf. Go figure.

  81. Woodland played like Koepka, and won. Good for him. $2.25 million first place.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Gary Woodland looks like an older version of Brooks Koepka.
  82. @Jim Don Bob
    Woodland played like Koepka, and won. Good for him. $2.25 million first place.

    Gary Woodland looks like an older version of Brooks Koepka.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Fox worked really hard making sure to portray them both more sympathetically than they’ve been in the past. So good to see Woodland bring it home strong.
  83. @Hodag
    The sea wall along 18 is new (last 10 -25 years?) But there is a lot of plasticized concrete sculpted to look like rock above high tide.

    The new 17th green is a wonder and well over due. 18 does not play like it did during the Clambake days - no more persimmon or balata.

    I am just very happy for prime time Major golf. I am also happy the USGA did not kill the greens this year.

    Woodland’s putt on 18 put him 1 up on Tiger’s legendary 2000 score, so someone’s going to be unhappy. Plus that amateur breaking Jack’s record.

  84. @Steve Sailer
    Gary Woodland looks like an older version of Brooks Koepka.

    Fox worked really hard making sure to portray them both more sympathetically than they’ve been in the past. So good to see Woodland bring it home strong.

  85. @e
    Cypress Point, a private club, is said by many golf architects and pro golfers to be superior to Pebble. You don't hear much talk of that any more as it's not on the PGA Tour and God forbid anyone say Pebble has a superior.

    It used to be part of the trio of courses on the Monterey Peninsula used for the Crosby but because it had no black members at the time and because it was being pressured to add some, it pulled itself from the tournament, much to the dismay of the golfing public who loved a chance to visit it during the tournament.

    Nantz painted himself into a corner laying it on thick about Pebble and St. Andrews being the two iconic golf courses in the world. Can’t think his employer was too happy about that estimation.

  86. @Aryan Racist
    After 3 rounds:
    Gary Woodland -11
    Justin Rose -10
    Brooks Koepka -7
    Tiger Woods E

    Most of the media attention has been about Tiger even though he is out of the picture.
    I would like to see Koepka have a strong 4th round and contend for the championship,
    which would be his 3rd U.S. Open in a row if he won.

    If Tiger had gone 4 under on the first six (as Koepka did) rather than 4 over, he’d have tied second with a 61.

    • Replies: @bartolo1
    As sad a commentary as it may be, if Tiger Woods spoke a few words along the lines of......

    "Really tired of being called African American"..............and expounded on exactly why he felt that way..........

    Tiger went to the White House....................in defiance of the mob. He still retains popularity.

    ON and on we go with this nonsense..................Tiger Woods is a fascinating man...............a top ten guy I would love to have a beer with.

    Tiger knows exactly where he was the moment he got "woke"...........he knows exactly how ridiculous his life is......................he got woke swimming upstream.......
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd have Christmas everyday. Did Eldrick win this Major?

    NO!

    TICK. TICK. TICK.
  87. @e
    I knew Condi Rice became a member at Augusta, didn't know about Cypress Point. Eastwood is a member there.

    George Schultz and Caspar Weinberger too. Basically, be a Republican Secretary of State or Secretary of Defense and you’ve got a shot at membership at Cypress Point.

    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    They have good number of Forbes 400 types as well. I have seen Charles Schwab there a couple of times.
  88. @PV van der Byl
    Yup. Have a look at the opening credits to "Play Misty for Me" (1971):

    https://youtu.be/Vp8iXNAG9cc

    Clint Eastwood did his army service near there at Fort Ord. He was a swimming instructor.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    My cousin is a Vietnam Era Vet. During the Tet Offensive, he was a typist in a NATO office in Venice, Italy and commuted to work via gondola.
    , @PV van der Byl
    Yes. Despite having grown up in the Bay Area, Eastwood did not see the Montetey peninsula until he got sent to Ft. Ord (now another mediocre Cal State campus).
  89. @Cagey Beast
    Clint Eastwood did his army service near there at Fort Ord. He was a swimming instructor.

    My cousin is a Vietnam Era Vet. During the Tet Offensive, he was a typist in a NATO office in Venice, Italy and commuted to work via gondola.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    LOLs. I get the impression guys who were in the military back then didn't hold it against someone who lucked out because they knew it was literally the luck of the draw. My father was in a Brit regiment a few years after Clint Eastwood did his service and my father said a he once saw a bunch of new conscripts gets the numbers 1, 2 or 3 written on their helmets. Group 1 went to Malaya, Group 2 to Germany and Group 3 to Cyprus. So those were 1 in 3 odds of not being sent to the fighting.
  90. @Steve Sailer
    My cousin is a Vietnam Era Vet. During the Tet Offensive, he was a typist in a NATO office in Venice, Italy and commuted to work via gondola.

    LOLs. I get the impression guys who were in the military back then didn’t hold it against someone who lucked out because they knew it was literally the luck of the draw. My father was in a Brit regiment a few years after Clint Eastwood did his service and my father said a he once saw a bunch of new conscripts gets the numbers 1, 2 or 3 written on their helmets. Group 1 went to Malaya, Group 2 to Germany and Group 3 to Cyprus. So those were 1 in 3 odds of not being sent to the fighting.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    My impression is that basically everybody who signs up for the Army or Marines in the 21st Century has gotten sent to a war zone at least once and often multiple times. National Guard, too.
  91. @Cagey Beast
    LOLs. I get the impression guys who were in the military back then didn't hold it against someone who lucked out because they knew it was literally the luck of the draw. My father was in a Brit regiment a few years after Clint Eastwood did his service and my father said a he once saw a bunch of new conscripts gets the numbers 1, 2 or 3 written on their helmets. Group 1 went to Malaya, Group 2 to Germany and Group 3 to Cyprus. So those were 1 in 3 odds of not being sent to the fighting.

    My impression is that basically everybody who signs up for the Army or Marines in the 21st Century has gotten sent to a war zone at least once and often multiple times. National Guard, too.

    • Replies: @Barnard
    My impression is that is mostly true, but the bottom 10-15% or so don't get sent over to a war zone for the possibility they could endanger the lives of their fellow soldiers. These are people who would not have made it through basic training in an earlier era.
  92. @Desiderius
    If Tiger had gone 4 under on the first six (as Koepka did) rather than 4 over, he’d have tied second with a 61.

    As sad a commentary as it may be, if Tiger Woods spoke a few words along the lines of……

    “Really tired of being called African American”…………..and expounded on exactly why he felt that way……….

    Tiger went to the White House………………..in defiance of the mob. He still retains popularity.

    ON and on we go with this nonsense………………Tiger Woods is a fascinating man……………a top ten guy I would love to have a beer with.

    Tiger knows exactly where he was the moment he got “woke”………..he knows exactly how ridiculous his life is………………….he got woke swimming upstream…….

  93. @Old Palo Altan
    The best houses in Pebble Beach are those built along the shore by Morse's friends: great hulking architecturally brilliant piles built in Spanish Colonial or just plain old baronial style by families like Goodyear. A brother of William F. Buckley lived in one of the best of them in the 70s and 80s.
    Earlier these were summer "cottages" for the real old money families of San Francisco and the East Coast (like Morse himself).

    The smaller houses were built by people of much more modesty means; a goodly number from the 50s till the 70s were retired military men of flag rank. These are the houses which are now being torn down and replaced by unfortunate MacMansions of varying quality.

    Pebble Beach is better value for money than it used to be. The house my father had built there in 1971 cost him twice what he had sold our house in Los Gatos for. Fifty years later the situation is reversed. Even more strikingly, the Palo Alto house which had sold in 1962 for $25,000 is now worth more than the other two combined.

    “Pebble Beach is better value for money than it used to be. The house my father had built there in 1971 cost him twice what he had sold our house in Los Gatos for. Fifty years later the situation is reversed. Even more strikingly, the Palo Alto house which had sold in 1962 for $25,000 is now worth more than the other two combined.”

    Old Palo Altan, it’s close to unimaginable what has occurred in/to Palo Alto over the last ~50 years. Back when your father built that house in Pebble there was simply no way he, nor anyone else, could have imaged the reality of 2019 (Google/Facebook salaries & stock options/grants). And as far as Los Gatos goes, that was way too far a commute from the “good jobs” in Sunnyvale/Santa Clara of that era. (That breakfast place, The Los Gatos Cafe, is still my morning favorite, even though now I try to limit my occasional visits to weekdays to avoid the wait/noise.) Heck even Palo Alto was a bit too much of a commute back then.

    I guess maybe it should have been obvious that with most families in the California bay area having been “migrants” from other states, there was no reason to think people would out of blue just stop arriving.

    Pebble Beach is uniquely nice, but what still kind of baffles me is just how much of the CA coast is lightly inhabited, rarely set foot on; and how much sand is left undisturbed by everything but the wind and ocean. And like you say, affordable relative to Palo Alto. Guess it’s just “too remote”, away from the action, for most?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The population of the "Gaviota Coast" -- about 25 miles of coastline with superb climate west of UC Santa Barbara might not be even 1,000 people.

    The California Coastal Commission rules the coastline with a heavy hand.

    , @Old Palo Altan
    "Guess it’s just “too remote”, away from the action, for most?"

    I've come to precisely that conclusion, but it is only because of the huge changes you mention. Back in 1970, as I said, Pebble Beach was the really pricey place. No longer.

    Los Gatos has changed terribly since we lived there, while Palo Alto, miraculously, has not. I don't even stop when driving by the former on 17 anymore; I always stop in Palo Alto and relive my early youth. For example, both of those cafes you mention are outside my understanding of what constituted Los Gatos. We lived up Kennedy Road, and I considered anything beyond that to be virgin territory. Wasteland really, leading to the unbelievably boring San Jose of those days.

    These days, even the Forest is a bit too crowded, and I dream of precisely those empty beaches and hills to the south which you mention.
    , @PV van der Byl
    Yes, Pebble Beach is just too far away from Silicon Valley to make a daily commute worth it. And driving from one place to another also involves a lot of travel on a two lane road that often slows to a crawl.
  94. @AnotherDad

    While stationed there I fell in love with the Monterey Peninsula, Carmel, Big Sur. Often I enjoyed walking the shoreline from Del Monte Boulevard to Asilomar and back to my USNPGS digs.
     
    The 70s was nice wasn't it--when California was still part of America.

    “The 70s was nice wasn’t it–when California was still part of America.”

    AnotherDad, from my vantage it seems California was really only “California” during the 50’s thru the 70’s, and then really got going with the “divergence” from America in 90’s. That coinciding with the tech driven stock market bubble which popped in 2001. Prior to Y2K people I know rarely left California for reasons other that job relocation or escaping the long arm. For the past couple of decades the most common reason I’m aware of is economic; too poor to stay, or too well off not to leave.

    Prior to ~2000, the common refrain here was “as California goes, so goes the nation”. Since ~2000 what I hear most often is that California is spreading it’s “disease” to the rest of the nation. Seems neither are ideal for Americas future, but given history, I’d be hesitant to have to bet against that outcome; at least as long as there still is an America.

  95. @Harold
    I thought this was going to be about cars. Disappointed.

    “I thought this was going to be about cars. Disappointed.”

    Harold, you had to know our intrepid host was approaching this topic with a wedge, not a driver.

    I was fortunate enough to be on the Pebble greens last August, with the cars. It was a little cheaper than playing a round; and as I’m a duffer golfer, time better spent. Having not been back to the event in a couple of decades I was taken aback at what a circus the whole Monterey car week has become. Masses as far as the eye could see, Italian engines constantly revving near and far. Spotted north of 100 Aventadors, a dozen Panoz’s & Veyrons, and hardly saw ’em all. Also of interest, at least to me, were the number of YouTube “celebrities” around, along with the entourages gathered around them.

    It was the classics though that I primarily went to ogle. Over the years my taste has turned more and more “low-brow”. My heart now races faster for a nice ’59 Buick than a LaFerrari. Lately I’ve really started to go off on the deep end. I find myself watching “Lowrider Roll Models” episodes on ‘Tube. Maybe it’s driven by nostalgia for the way California once was?

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Oh those Concours d'Elegance!

    All in all, the Packards were my favourites, but the most amazingly stupendous car I ever saw there was a Bugatti Royale two-seater. That's right: a two-seater with a twenty foot wheelbase. Unreal.

    But yes, the cars of the late Fifties are what excite me now. Memories of the innocence and simple joys of youth, when we thought it would stay just as it was in that paradise called California.
    , @PV van der Byl
    I haven't been to a Concours in PB in about twenty years. Haven't they also moved much of the action to some place (Quail Lodge?) in Carmel Valley?
  96. “in 1973, the green’s fee was only $20 for anybody to walk on. Today, the green’s fee for non-resort guests is $550, plus you really ought to pay for a caddy, which will cost you at least $150. extra. If you choose to take a motorized cart, you’ll be forced to drive on the inland cart paths, which are dull. So, take a caddy”

    Was wandering along Machrihanish beach in Kintyre a month or so ago, where there’s a links course laid down by Old Tom Morris (though tweaked since). For visitors, £75 a round or £45 after 4 pm (doesn’t get dark til 9 so not bad) or £110 to play all day. Met a couple of Americans who’d come over to play.

    Scottish golf is neat in that anyone can play nearly all of the great courses. My cousin used to take a fortnight off each year and tour round – St Andrews (£190 a round in summer), Gleneagles etc.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The opening hole at Machrihanish is like the closing hole at Pebble Beach with a tee shot across the ocean.

    I wonder how many cross-ocean shots exist on golf courses in the world? I'd guess closer to 100 than to 10 or 1000.

    In California there are:

    - Several at Half Moon Bay south of San Francisco, although they are closer to being parallel to the beach than crossing over the surf, but from the map it looks like there are several holes where you might have to cross part of the beach in certain situations, and maybe the surf at high tide.

    - Several at Pebble Beach (6, 8, 18, possibly 9 and 10)
    - Maybe 4 at Cypress Point (15, 16, and possibly both drive and approach at 17)
    - 1 at Monterey Peninsula CC

    In Southern California, there are several holes that play parallel to the ocean (4 at Sandpiper near Santa Barbara, Trump National LA, Monarch Beach, Pelican Hill, Torrey Pines), but I can't think of any where a shot would cross the waves at high tide. There are likely holes that play across saltwater marshes, but that's not quite the same.

    There are a couple of holes across the waves north of Ensenada in Mexico.

  97. @danand


    "Pebble Beach is better value for money than it used to be. The house my father had built there in 1971 cost him twice what he had sold our house in Los Gatos for. Fifty years later the situation is reversed. Even more strikingly, the Palo Alto house which had sold in 1962 for $25,000 is now worth more than the other two combined."
     
    Old Palo Altan, it's close to unimaginable what has occurred in/to Palo Alto over the last ~50 years. Back when your father built that house in Pebble there was simply no way he, nor anyone else, could have imaged the reality of 2019 (Google/Facebook salaries & stock options/grants). And as far as Los Gatos goes, that was way too far a commute from the "good jobs" in Sunnyvale/Santa Clara of that era. (That breakfast place, The Los Gatos Cafe, is still my morning favorite, even though now I try to limit my occasional visits to weekdays to avoid the wait/noise.) Heck even Palo Alto was a bit too much of a commute back then.

    I guess maybe it should have been obvious that with most families in the California bay area having been "migrants" from other states, there was no reason to think people would out of blue just stop arriving.

    Pebble Beach is uniquely nice, but what still kind of baffles me is just how much of the CA coast is lightly inhabited, rarely set foot on; and how much sand is left undisturbed by everything but the wind and ocean. And like you say, affordable relative to Palo Alto. Guess it's just "too remote", away from the action, for most?

    The population of the “Gaviota Coast” — about 25 miles of coastline with superb climate west of UC Santa Barbara might not be even 1,000 people.

    The California Coastal Commission rules the coastline with a heavy hand.

  98. @YetAnotherAnon
    "in 1973, the green’s fee was only $20 for anybody to walk on. Today, the green’s fee for non-resort guests is $550, plus you really ought to pay for a caddy, which will cost you at least $150. extra. If you choose to take a motorized cart, you’ll be forced to drive on the inland cart paths, which are dull. So, take a caddy"

    Was wandering along Machrihanish beach in Kintyre a month or so ago, where there's a links course laid down by Old Tom Morris (though tweaked since). For visitors, £75 a round or £45 after 4 pm (doesn't get dark til 9 so not bad) or £110 to play all day. Met a couple of Americans who'd come over to play.

    Scottish golf is neat in that anyone can play nearly all of the great courses. My cousin used to take a fortnight off each year and tour round - St Andrews (£190 a round in summer), Gleneagles etc.

    The opening hole at Machrihanish is like the closing hole at Pebble Beach with a tee shot across the ocean.

    I wonder how many cross-ocean shots exist on golf courses in the world? I’d guess closer to 100 than to 10 or 1000.

    In California there are:

    – Several at Half Moon Bay south of San Francisco, although they are closer to being parallel to the beach than crossing over the surf, but from the map it looks like there are several holes where you might have to cross part of the beach in certain situations, and maybe the surf at high tide.

    – Several at Pebble Beach (6, 8, 18, possibly 9 and 10)
    – Maybe 4 at Cypress Point (15, 16, and possibly both drive and approach at 17)
    – 1 at Monterey Peninsula CC

    In Southern California, there are several holes that play parallel to the ocean (4 at Sandpiper near Santa Barbara, Trump National LA, Monarch Beach, Pelican Hill, Torrey Pines), but I can’t think of any where a shot would cross the waves at high tide. There are likely holes that play across saltwater marshes, but that’s not quite the same.

    There are a couple of holes across the waves north of Ensenada in Mexico.

  99. @Bardon Kaldian
    This has nothing to do with Pebble Beach, but...

    Recently I've been reading accounts of Casanova's life, just to check if my impression of the era- after reading his 3,500 pages memoir decades ago- was correct. Well- in my current opinion, it was. Casanova was an interesting & intriguing man, but basically shallow as the entire century he epitomized.

    The 18th C was an enormously important century, perhaps the turning point in past 500 years world history. But, it was- with its Classicism, Rococo etc- "small", with silly wigs, superficial & down to earth, "practical", emotionally underdeveloped, intellectually not courageous enough. Not a century of geniuses, except in mathematics (Euler).

    In philosophy, it did produce Kant, but I'm not sure he's of the stature of Leibniz or Spinoza (most will disagree with me). It was all, with Hume and Kant, anthropocentric & somehow ... "not enough". By the way, Kant also wrote essay on the beautiful & the sublime.

    In music, the archetypal 18th C composer, Mozart defies & defeats my dissatisfaction. True, Bach died in 1750., but he belongs to a different era, as does Beethoven to the later.

    In writing, Voltaire as the central 18th C author is small compared to the great Renaissance & Baroque authors, as well as chief 19th C writers.

    With visual arts, it is Watteau, Tiepolo,..all 2nd rate.

    I know this is one those nasty generalizations, but is there something connecting American supreme success in the world & her creative second-ratedness, not just in art, but in all fields except technology?

    Something cruel, along the lines what late John Updike said about American literature & life...

    How many of our classics, notoriously, deal not with American society but with its asocial margins—a whale hunt on the high seas, a refugee boy and a black slave on a river raft, the outcast Hester Prynne, the expatriate heroes of Hemingway and Henry James, seeking fulfillment and aesthetic satisfaction everywhere but at home in the United States. A critic can make too much of this; but assume it is somewhat true—what might the reasons be? Let me propose four.

    One, with exceptions like Washington Irving and William Dean Howells, who tend to bore posterity, the American writer has few traditional ties to the power establishment of the country, and ordinarily distrusts and scorns its politicians, businessmen, bureaucrats, managers, and even its workers—all those, in short, who make the society go are dismissed by a Puritan idealism that sees the compromises and maneuvers of bourgeois striving as unworthy of sympathetic consideration. Two, the ideal of a classless society, in which there is no aristocracy, no peasantry, no servant class, in a perverse way makes us less accessible to one another, by depriving our imaginations of those colorful badges and mannerisms and assigned duties with which characterization can begin. Three, the very triumph of American popular culture in this century coats the individual, whom the writer would hold up to cultural study, in an impervious skin of cultural cliché; the crises of will and desire that occupy nineteenth-century novels are as it were kidded away by the image-saturated modern consciousness, which has pre-experienced everything, in a trivializing and dulling abundance of unearned sophistication: this weariness of knowingness was wonderfully captured in the fiction of the late Donald Barthelme. And four, perhaps a culture that never had a pagan or medieval epoch doesn’t leave one much to say about being human; when, in a nation soundly founded on eighteenth-century rationalism and nineteenth-century laws of material exchange, Homo sapiens has been stripped of superstitious loyalties and quixotic delusions, what is left is a bald consumer, an animal of purely selfish appetites and purely biological motives whose genetically determined life-events scarcely warrant the glamorization of fiction.
     

    The Enlightenment was great, but so was the subsequent Romantic reaction to the Enlightenment.

  100. @Anon
    You played there with your dad when you were 14? How long had you played golf by that point? Have you played Pebble Beach since?

    It was after Christmas 1973, so I was 15. I started playing golf in the fall of 1971, so about 27 months. I was pretty bad. No, I’ve never played Pebble Beach since.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Reading up on Pebble Beach, the Pacific Grove course surfaced as a nearby budget alternative designed by a couple of famous course designers.
  101. @bomag

    the green’s fee was only $20 for anybody to walk on. [1973]

    Today, the green’s fee for non-resort guests is $550
     
    An inflation calculator tells me $20 in ''73 would be $100 today; so the nice things become more expensive and rarer as the nation fills with people.

    Golf course connoisseurship has increased vastly over my lifetime. Golf was popular in 1973, and Pebble Beach had recently hosted the 1972 US Open, but there wasn’t all that much demand back then to play the legendary courses.

    Keep in mind that Pebble Beach isn’t that much fun of a course because the way it keeps the best golfers in the world from going 25 under par without being a very long course is by having tiny greens. So a pretty good approach shot can get severely punished. Pebble Beach is a little like the Robert Trent Jones’ new course at Ballybunion in Ireland, which is built on incredible sand dunes. It would be hugely fun if the greens weren’t so punitively small. But when the wind blows it’s just hard hard hard.

    The most fun course I’ve ever played is the National Golf Links of America in South Hampton, with Ballybunion’s Old Course second.

    That said, Pebble Beach’s holes 6-10 are as great as it gets.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    But when the wind blows it’s just hard hard hard
     
    You can just do like Rose did and run everything up short then pitch and putt. That’s how my grandfather played as he aged and he was a five when he died.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Steve, your well informed information regarding golf only serves to make the point that you really, really should consider writing the definitive book on the sport. It truly seems to be one of your passions. Nearly every type of detail, large and small, and everything in between, seems to be covered in depth by your perceptive noticing.

    Might as well write it. Lord knows your various posts over the years pertaining to some aspect of golf could just about write itself by this point into a fairly large coffee table sized tome. It's your passion, and it should be written into book form.

  102. Nice to see Woodland win it. Its good for pro golf when a relative unknown can come out of no where to win a major, though Woodland has been playing well the past 2 years. He has 4 PGA tour victories since turning pro in 2007. His last win before yesterday was in the Waste Management Phoenix Open. That’s a horrible name for a golf tournament; I know the prevailing corporate mindset is dull, and beset with self-imposed Big Brother censorship, but couldn’t they have at least named it something like, The Phoenix Open, presented by WM Corp.?

    Brooks Koepka seems to have quietly turned into one of the top players of the last half of the decade. 11 wins on the PGA and European tours, along with four majors so far (same as McIllroy has; more than Spieth has; both touted as the next “big thing’ at some point), and tying for 2nd at this year’s Master’s. Will be interesting to watch over the next few years to see if he sustains this level of effort; he’s 29.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Koepka is just playing a different game. All those birdies he just barely misses where you’re thinking, “if only this guy could putt!” in reality he makes his share it’s just that nearly every putt ends up in a tight circle around the hole.

    Tap in pars conserve a lot of mental energy.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    They said on TV that Woodland had led after 54 holes 7 times before but had never closed any of them out.

    Golf would be better if they had more pictures of the players' hot wives or girl friends or just some of the golf groupies.
  103. @Jonathan Mason
    The beach appears to be sand, like the bunkers, not pebble.

    This is what a pebble beach looks like.

    https://apparentlynothing.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/brightonbeach.jpg

    not this

    https://www.centrellainn.com/webart/listings/large/35_01.jpg

    I guess souvenir hunters took all the pebbles.

    It may interest you to know that beach originally meant water rounded pebbles.

  104. @Steve Sailer
    It was after Christmas 1973, so I was 15. I started playing golf in the fall of 1971, so about 27 months. I was pretty bad. No, I've never played Pebble Beach since.

    Reading up on Pebble Beach, the Pacific Grove course surfaced as a nearby budget alternative designed by a couple of famous course designers.

  105. @Auntie Analogue
    My dear Hunsdon, when stationed in the early 70's at USNPGS a shipmate of mine tended bar at Pebble Beach's Bing Crosby Pro-Am Tournament. I accompanied him there on his pre-tourney visit to apply for the bartending gig. Because he was a job applicant the gate guard let him drive onto Seventeen Mile Drive free of charge, but I was shocked to see that the rich who own that tract of coastal property charged motorists $3.oo to drive on their streets (I've no idea what the fee is today).

    While stationed there I fell in love with the Monterey Peninsula, Carmel, Big Sur. Often I enjoyed walking the shoreline from Del Monte Boulevard to Asilomar and back to my USNPGS digs.

    I have many fond memories of the time I spent on the Monterey Peninsula. It was always nice to be able to go down to the beach, sit on a rock and watch the surf come in, rent a kayak and paddle around the bay, and many many other things along those lines. It is truly one of the most beautiful places I have ever been, and I mourn the doubtless deleterious changes that have occurred since I left.

    • Agree: PV van der Byl
  106. @Jonathan Mason

    Maybe the public would enjoy courses that aren’t so ostentatiously beautiful.
     
    I can't see why. Half the attraction of golf is that whether you are present on the course or watching on TV, you see lots of people gathered in a beautiful place for a sporting contest, hopefully on a beautiful summer day in some place where there is ocean, rivers, mountain views, etc. that one can vicariously enjoy.

    What would be the attraction of ugly golf?

    What would be the attraction of ugly golf?

    It seems like half the attraction of the game consists just in the Homeric epithets borne by the courses. Pebble Beach, Spyglass Hill, Cypress Point—the purpose of these monikers is to sooth the nerves and relax the bent bow. While not exactly poetry themselves, they serve to put the hearer in a vaguely poetic frame of mind where he becomes suggestible and receptive to certain messages. In other words, they are a form of hypnosis; and the suggestion carried by this hypnosis is “You deserve to experience luxury and this is it.”

    A certain amount of this emotional colorant is necessary to enjoy the game, either as a player or a spectator. For if you were to simply experience the sand and the grass in their “naked” forms—i.e. in themselves as unrelated to a particular structuring of your own will—then you would wonder what was the point of standing out there swinging a club around. The golf course, for from being simply “a place to play golf” is the projection into the world of an entire mood and vision, and the name of the course is, so to speak, the verbal architecture of the front gate to this garden path. Once inside the temple complex, you are conducted ceremonially from hole to hole until you reach an end point of final libations (and a gift shop). It is a somewhat vulgar form of piety, but very much in keeping with the pseudoreligious trinket-trading of Mainline Protestantism and the untrue Buddhisms of Leftist enclaves.

    Like any popular cult, golf has swollen to a point of almost unbelievable zealotry and fervor and will, like the Roman Isis worship, fade out again without leaving hardly a trace of its former intensity. However, it will at least be a very environmentally neutral sort of collapse, since golf courses will leave no monumental ruins behind them, tending rather to just get overgrown and lost.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Very true, and very amusing.

    The "gift shop" at Pebble is a whole series of them, selling anything from clothes to trinkets to wine, food, and (of course) houses - all of them outrageously expensive.

    I only ever saw any of this because the Pebble Beach Post Office is just across the road, and I would walk the half mile or so from our house each early afternoon to pick up the day's quota of bills and magazines. Then the New York Times or the Chronicle from the vending machine outside the food place, which I would enter only when feeling like paying too much for an indifferent bottle of French wine.

    Still - great days.
  107. @danand


    "Pebble Beach is better value for money than it used to be. The house my father had built there in 1971 cost him twice what he had sold our house in Los Gatos for. Fifty years later the situation is reversed. Even more strikingly, the Palo Alto house which had sold in 1962 for $25,000 is now worth more than the other two combined."
     
    Old Palo Altan, it's close to unimaginable what has occurred in/to Palo Alto over the last ~50 years. Back when your father built that house in Pebble there was simply no way he, nor anyone else, could have imaged the reality of 2019 (Google/Facebook salaries & stock options/grants). And as far as Los Gatos goes, that was way too far a commute from the "good jobs" in Sunnyvale/Santa Clara of that era. (That breakfast place, The Los Gatos Cafe, is still my morning favorite, even though now I try to limit my occasional visits to weekdays to avoid the wait/noise.) Heck even Palo Alto was a bit too much of a commute back then.

    I guess maybe it should have been obvious that with most families in the California bay area having been "migrants" from other states, there was no reason to think people would out of blue just stop arriving.

    Pebble Beach is uniquely nice, but what still kind of baffles me is just how much of the CA coast is lightly inhabited, rarely set foot on; and how much sand is left undisturbed by everything but the wind and ocean. And like you say, affordable relative to Palo Alto. Guess it's just "too remote", away from the action, for most?

    “Guess it’s just “too remote”, away from the action, for most?”

    I’ve come to precisely that conclusion, but it is only because of the huge changes you mention. Back in 1970, as I said, Pebble Beach was the really pricey place. No longer.

    Los Gatos has changed terribly since we lived there, while Palo Alto, miraculously, has not. I don’t even stop when driving by the former on 17 anymore; I always stop in Palo Alto and relive my early youth. For example, both of those cafes you mention are outside my understanding of what constituted Los Gatos. We lived up Kennedy Road, and I considered anything beyond that to be virgin territory. Wasteland really, leading to the unbelievably boring San Jose of those days.

    These days, even the Forest is a bit too crowded, and I dream of precisely those empty beaches and hills to the south which you mention.

  108. @Steve Sailer
    Golf course connoisseurship has increased vastly over my lifetime. Golf was popular in 1973, and Pebble Beach had recently hosted the 1972 US Open, but there wasn't all that much demand back then to play the legendary courses.

    Keep in mind that Pebble Beach isn't that much fun of a course because the way it keeps the best golfers in the world from going 25 under par without being a very long course is by having tiny greens. So a pretty good approach shot can get severely punished. Pebble Beach is a little like the Robert Trent Jones' new course at Ballybunion in Ireland, which is built on incredible sand dunes. It would be hugely fun if the greens weren't so punitively small. But when the wind blows it's just hard hard hard.

    The most fun course I've ever played is the National Golf Links of America in South Hampton, with Ballybunion's Old Course second.

    That said, Pebble Beach's holes 6-10 are as great as it gets.

    But when the wind blows it’s just hard hard hard

    You can just do like Rose did and run everything up short then pitch and putt. That’s how my grandfather played as he aged and he was a five when he died.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Rose couldn't buy a putt on the last few holes.
  109. @Captain Tripps
    Nice to see Woodland win it. Its good for pro golf when a relative unknown can come out of no where to win a major, though Woodland has been playing well the past 2 years. He has 4 PGA tour victories since turning pro in 2007. His last win before yesterday was in the Waste Management Phoenix Open. That's a horrible name for a golf tournament; I know the prevailing corporate mindset is dull, and beset with self-imposed Big Brother censorship, but couldn't they have at least named it something like, The Phoenix Open, presented by WM Corp.?

    Brooks Koepka seems to have quietly turned into one of the top players of the last half of the decade. 11 wins on the PGA and European tours, along with four majors so far (same as McIllroy has; more than Spieth has; both touted as the next "big thing' at some point), and tying for 2nd at this year's Master's. Will be interesting to watch over the next few years to see if he sustains this level of effort; he's 29.

    Koepka is just playing a different game. All those birdies he just barely misses where you’re thinking, “if only this guy could putt!” in reality he makes his share it’s just that nearly every putt ends up in a tight circle around the hole.

    Tap in pars conserve a lot of mental energy.

    • Agree: Captain Tripps
  110. @danand

    "I thought this was going to be about cars. Disappointed."
     
    Harold, you had to know our intrepid host was approaching this topic with a wedge, not a driver.

    I was fortunate enough to be on the Pebble greens last August, with the cars. It was a little cheaper than playing a round; and as I'm a duffer golfer, time better spent. Having not been back to the event in a couple of decades I was taken aback at what a circus the whole Monterey car week has become. Masses as far as the eye could see, Italian engines constantly revving near and far. Spotted north of 100 Aventadors, a dozen Panoz's & Veyrons, and hardly saw 'em all. Also of interest, at least to me, were the number of YouTube "celebrities" around, along with the entourages gathered around them.

    It was the classics though that I primarily went to ogle. Over the years my taste has turned more and more "low-brow". My heart now races faster for a nice '59 Buick than a LaFerrari. Lately I've really started to go off on the deep end. I find myself watching "Lowrider Roll Models" episodes on 'Tube. Maybe it's driven by nostalgia for the way California once was?

    Oh those Concours d’Elegance!

    All in all, the Packards were my favourites, but the most amazingly stupendous car I ever saw there was a Bugatti Royale two-seater. That’s right: a two-seater with a twenty foot wheelbase. Unreal.

    But yes, the cars of the late Fifties are what excite me now. Memories of the innocence and simple joys of youth, when we thought it would stay just as it was in that paradise called California.

  111. @Cagey Beast
    Clint Eastwood did his army service near there at Fort Ord. He was a swimming instructor.

    Yes. Despite having grown up in the Bay Area, Eastwood did not see the Montetey peninsula until he got sent to Ft. Ord (now another mediocre Cal State campus).

  112. @danand

    "I thought this was going to be about cars. Disappointed."
     
    Harold, you had to know our intrepid host was approaching this topic with a wedge, not a driver.

    I was fortunate enough to be on the Pebble greens last August, with the cars. It was a little cheaper than playing a round; and as I'm a duffer golfer, time better spent. Having not been back to the event in a couple of decades I was taken aback at what a circus the whole Monterey car week has become. Masses as far as the eye could see, Italian engines constantly revving near and far. Spotted north of 100 Aventadors, a dozen Panoz's & Veyrons, and hardly saw 'em all. Also of interest, at least to me, were the number of YouTube "celebrities" around, along with the entourages gathered around them.

    It was the classics though that I primarily went to ogle. Over the years my taste has turned more and more "low-brow". My heart now races faster for a nice '59 Buick than a LaFerrari. Lately I've really started to go off on the deep end. I find myself watching "Lowrider Roll Models" episodes on 'Tube. Maybe it's driven by nostalgia for the way California once was?

    I haven’t been to a Concours in PB in about twenty years. Haven’t they also moved much of the action to some place (Quail Lodge?) in Carmel Valley?

  113. @danand


    "Pebble Beach is better value for money than it used to be. The house my father had built there in 1971 cost him twice what he had sold our house in Los Gatos for. Fifty years later the situation is reversed. Even more strikingly, the Palo Alto house which had sold in 1962 for $25,000 is now worth more than the other two combined."
     
    Old Palo Altan, it's close to unimaginable what has occurred in/to Palo Alto over the last ~50 years. Back when your father built that house in Pebble there was simply no way he, nor anyone else, could have imaged the reality of 2019 (Google/Facebook salaries & stock options/grants). And as far as Los Gatos goes, that was way too far a commute from the "good jobs" in Sunnyvale/Santa Clara of that era. (That breakfast place, The Los Gatos Cafe, is still my morning favorite, even though now I try to limit my occasional visits to weekdays to avoid the wait/noise.) Heck even Palo Alto was a bit too much of a commute back then.

    I guess maybe it should have been obvious that with most families in the California bay area having been "migrants" from other states, there was no reason to think people would out of blue just stop arriving.

    Pebble Beach is uniquely nice, but what still kind of baffles me is just how much of the CA coast is lightly inhabited, rarely set foot on; and how much sand is left undisturbed by everything but the wind and ocean. And like you say, affordable relative to Palo Alto. Guess it's just "too remote", away from the action, for most?

    Yes, Pebble Beach is just too far away from Silicon Valley to make a daily commute worth it. And driving from one place to another also involves a lot of travel on a two lane road that often slows to a crawl.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    My father worked near San Francisco, about two weeks a month. So he flew there: the Monterey airport is still a little gem.
  114. @Steve Sailer
    My impression is that basically everybody who signs up for the Army or Marines in the 21st Century has gotten sent to a war zone at least once and often multiple times. National Guard, too.

    My impression is that is mostly true, but the bottom 10-15% or so don’t get sent over to a war zone for the possibility they could endanger the lives of their fellow soldiers. These are people who would not have made it through basic training in an earlier era.

  115. @Steve Sailer
    George Schultz and Caspar Weinberger too. Basically, be a Republican Secretary of State or Secretary of Defense and you've got a shot at membership at Cypress Point.

    They have good number of Forbes 400 types as well. I have seen Charles Schwab there a couple of times.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    So you are a member yourself?
  116. @bomag

    ...the owners of the two haven’t been able to get approved to build anything.
     
    Our regulatory overlords are quite adept at freezing time and place when it comes to architecture and the built environment.

    They should put their efforts into freezing our demographics at what it was 100 years ago; especially since that will have a larger determination on what the landscape looks like long term.

    They should put their efforts into freezing our demographics at what it was 100 years ago; especially since that will have a larger determination on what the landscape looks like long term.

    Yup.

    I always laugh at the attempt to preserve architecture from some “historical period”. The “historical architecture” of my area (New England) was teepees five hundred years ago…

  117. @Desiderius

    But when the wind blows it’s just hard hard hard
     
    You can just do like Rose did and run everything up short then pitch and putt. That’s how my grandfather played as he aged and he was a five when he died.

    Rose couldn’t buy a putt on the last few holes.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    He ran out of that mental energy Koepka conserved. The ground level view of Koepka’s last putt showed that he was robbed. It was the second shot club selection that really hurt, and maybe the first. Driver brings a two into play.

    Woodland was on a mission. I know the feeling - baby needs a new pair of shoes is a helluva drug.

  118. @Captain Tripps
    Nice to see Woodland win it. Its good for pro golf when a relative unknown can come out of no where to win a major, though Woodland has been playing well the past 2 years. He has 4 PGA tour victories since turning pro in 2007. His last win before yesterday was in the Waste Management Phoenix Open. That's a horrible name for a golf tournament; I know the prevailing corporate mindset is dull, and beset with self-imposed Big Brother censorship, but couldn't they have at least named it something like, The Phoenix Open, presented by WM Corp.?

    Brooks Koepka seems to have quietly turned into one of the top players of the last half of the decade. 11 wins on the PGA and European tours, along with four majors so far (same as McIllroy has; more than Spieth has; both touted as the next "big thing' at some point), and tying for 2nd at this year's Master's. Will be interesting to watch over the next few years to see if he sustains this level of effort; he's 29.

    They said on TV that Woodland had led after 54 holes 7 times before but had never closed any of them out.

    Golf would be better if they had more pictures of the players’ hot wives or girl friends or just some of the golf groupies.

  119. @Old Palo Altan
    The best houses in Pebble Beach are those built along the shore by Morse's friends: great hulking architecturally brilliant piles built in Spanish Colonial or just plain old baronial style by families like Goodyear. A brother of William F. Buckley lived in one of the best of them in the 70s and 80s.
    Earlier these were summer "cottages" for the real old money families of San Francisco and the East Coast (like Morse himself).

    The smaller houses were built by people of much more modesty means; a goodly number from the 50s till the 70s were retired military men of flag rank. These are the houses which are now being torn down and replaced by unfortunate MacMansions of varying quality.

    Pebble Beach is better value for money than it used to be. The house my father had built there in 1971 cost him twice what he had sold our house in Los Gatos for. Fifty years later the situation is reversed. Even more strikingly, the Palo Alto house which had sold in 1962 for $25,000 is now worth more than the other two combined.

    The best houses in Pebble Beach are those built along the shore by Morse’s friends: great hulking architecturally brilliant piles built in Spanish Colonial or just plain old baronial style by families like Goodyear. A brother of William F. Buckley lived in one of the best of them in the 70s and 80s. Earlier these were summer “cottages” for the real old money families of San Francisco and the East Coast (like Morse himself).

    https://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/charles-crockers-house/view/google/

    https://images.app.goo.gl/KK1Y7QncynksJVrQ9

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Thank you, particularly for that first link. Such memories.
  120. @Jim Don Bob
    Rose couldn't buy a putt on the last few holes.

    He ran out of that mental energy Koepka conserved. The ground level view of Koepka’s last putt showed that he was robbed. It was the second shot club selection that really hurt, and maybe the first. Driver brings a two into play.

    Woodland was on a mission. I know the feeling – baby needs a new pair of shoes is a helluva drug.

    • Replies: @Danindc
    He wasn’t money motivated. Those guys have more than enough. It was about his reputation. He was known as a non closer (choker) but got it done under the most extreme pressure. Amazing performance.
  121. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Re: sublime vs. beautiful, here is Wallace Stevens (who probably knew a bit about golf courses and country clubs) on the topic, from "Poetry Is A Destructive Force".....

    The lion sleeps in the sun.
    Its nose is on its paws.
    It can kill a man.

    Didn’t really beat around the bush, did he?

    Hemingway, the Stevens of prose.

    Pebble has precipices and roiling seas. The deadliness is there.

  122. Once again, yet another major that Eldrick did not win.

    TICK. TICK. TICK.

  123. @PV van der Byl

    The best houses in Pebble Beach are those built along the shore by Morse’s friends: great hulking architecturally brilliant piles built in Spanish Colonial or just plain old baronial style by families like Goodyear. A brother of William F. Buckley lived in one of the best of them in the 70s and 80s. Earlier these were summer “cottages” for the real old money families of San Francisco and the East Coast (like Morse himself).
     
    https://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/charles-crockers-house/view/google/

    https://images.app.goo.gl/KK1Y7QncynksJVrQ9

    Thank you, particularly for that first link. Such memories.

  124. @PV van der Byl
    They have good number of Forbes 400 types as well. I have seen Charles Schwab there a couple of times.

    So you are a member yourself?

    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Oh no! Fortunately, though, I know a couple of guys are.
  125. @PV van der Byl
    Yes, Pebble Beach is just too far away from Silicon Valley to make a daily commute worth it. And driving from one place to another also involves a lot of travel on a two lane road that often slows to a crawl.

    My father worked near San Francisco, about two weeks a month. So he flew there: the Monterey airport is still a little gem.

  126. @Old Palo Altan
    So you are a member yourself?

    Oh no! Fortunately, though, I know a couple of guys are.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    I'm still impressed. My father, a member for over forty years of the MPCC, hardly ever got a look-in.
  127. @Intelligent Dasein

    What would be the attraction of ugly golf?
     
    It seems like half the attraction of the game consists just in the Homeric epithets borne by the courses. Pebble Beach, Spyglass Hill, Cypress Point---the purpose of these monikers is to sooth the nerves and relax the bent bow. While not exactly poetry themselves, they serve to put the hearer in a vaguely poetic frame of mind where he becomes suggestible and receptive to certain messages. In other words, they are a form of hypnosis; and the suggestion carried by this hypnosis is "You deserve to experience luxury and this is it."

    A certain amount of this emotional colorant is necessary to enjoy the game, either as a player or a spectator. For if you were to simply experience the sand and the grass in their "naked" forms---i.e. in themselves as unrelated to a particular structuring of your own will---then you would wonder what was the point of standing out there swinging a club around. The golf course, for from being simply "a place to play golf" is the projection into the world of an entire mood and vision, and the name of the course is, so to speak, the verbal architecture of the front gate to this garden path. Once inside the temple complex, you are conducted ceremonially from hole to hole until you reach an end point of final libations (and a gift shop). It is a somewhat vulgar form of piety, but very much in keeping with the pseudoreligious trinket-trading of Mainline Protestantism and the untrue Buddhisms of Leftist enclaves.

    Like any popular cult, golf has swollen to a point of almost unbelievable zealotry and fervor and will, like the Roman Isis worship, fade out again without leaving hardly a trace of its former intensity. However, it will at least be a very environmentally neutral sort of collapse, since golf courses will leave no monumental ruins behind them, tending rather to just get overgrown and lost.

    Very true, and very amusing.

    The “gift shop” at Pebble is a whole series of them, selling anything from clothes to trinkets to wine, food, and (of course) houses – all of them outrageously expensive.

    I only ever saw any of this because the Pebble Beach Post Office is just across the road, and I would walk the half mile or so from our house each early afternoon to pick up the day’s quota of bills and magazines. Then the New York Times or the Chronicle from the vending machine outside the food place, which I would enter only when feeling like paying too much for an indifferent bottle of French wine.

    Still – great days.

  128. @Bardon Kaldian
    This has nothing to do with Pebble Beach, but...

    Recently I've been reading accounts of Casanova's life, just to check if my impression of the era- after reading his 3,500 pages memoir decades ago- was correct. Well- in my current opinion, it was. Casanova was an interesting & intriguing man, but basically shallow as the entire century he epitomized.

    The 18th C was an enormously important century, perhaps the turning point in past 500 years world history. But, it was- with its Classicism, Rococo etc- "small", with silly wigs, superficial & down to earth, "practical", emotionally underdeveloped, intellectually not courageous enough. Not a century of geniuses, except in mathematics (Euler).

    In philosophy, it did produce Kant, but I'm not sure he's of the stature of Leibniz or Spinoza (most will disagree with me). It was all, with Hume and Kant, anthropocentric & somehow ... "not enough". By the way, Kant also wrote essay on the beautiful & the sublime.

    In music, the archetypal 18th C composer, Mozart defies & defeats my dissatisfaction. True, Bach died in 1750., but he belongs to a different era, as does Beethoven to the later.

    In writing, Voltaire as the central 18th C author is small compared to the great Renaissance & Baroque authors, as well as chief 19th C writers.

    With visual arts, it is Watteau, Tiepolo,..all 2nd rate.

    I know this is one those nasty generalizations, but is there something connecting American supreme success in the world & her creative second-ratedness, not just in art, but in all fields except technology?

    Something cruel, along the lines what late John Updike said about American literature & life...

    How many of our classics, notoriously, deal not with American society but with its asocial margins—a whale hunt on the high seas, a refugee boy and a black slave on a river raft, the outcast Hester Prynne, the expatriate heroes of Hemingway and Henry James, seeking fulfillment and aesthetic satisfaction everywhere but at home in the United States. A critic can make too much of this; but assume it is somewhat true—what might the reasons be? Let me propose four.

    One, with exceptions like Washington Irving and William Dean Howells, who tend to bore posterity, the American writer has few traditional ties to the power establishment of the country, and ordinarily distrusts and scorns its politicians, businessmen, bureaucrats, managers, and even its workers—all those, in short, who make the society go are dismissed by a Puritan idealism that sees the compromises and maneuvers of bourgeois striving as unworthy of sympathetic consideration. Two, the ideal of a classless society, in which there is no aristocracy, no peasantry, no servant class, in a perverse way makes us less accessible to one another, by depriving our imaginations of those colorful badges and mannerisms and assigned duties with which characterization can begin. Three, the very triumph of American popular culture in this century coats the individual, whom the writer would hold up to cultural study, in an impervious skin of cultural cliché; the crises of will and desire that occupy nineteenth-century novels are as it were kidded away by the image-saturated modern consciousness, which has pre-experienced everything, in a trivializing and dulling abundance of unearned sophistication: this weariness of knowingness was wonderfully captured in the fiction of the late Donald Barthelme. And four, perhaps a culture that never had a pagan or medieval epoch doesn’t leave one much to say about being human; when, in a nation soundly founded on eighteenth-century rationalism and nineteenth-century laws of material exchange, Homo sapiens has been stripped of superstitious loyalties and quixotic delusions, what is left is a bald consumer, an animal of purely selfish appetites and purely biological motives whose genetically determined life-events scarcely warrant the glamorization of fiction.
     

    Voltaire supposedly said England had a hundred religions and one sauce.

  129. @Danindc
    They should play the U.S. Open here every year.
    Perfect set up this week. Big for the USGA after some recent screw ups. Fox has done s good job w the coverage.

    The downside of Pebble Beach for the US Open is the June Gloom. No sunshine on Saturday and Sunday. The Monterey Peninsula is insanely beautiful in fall, but can be gloomy in summer.

    But the upside is there’s no thunder storms to delay play and the tournament finishes in prime time on the east coast.

    What the USGA should do is pay for Torrey Pines in San Diego to be upgraded to a world class course by going down into the arroyos more and upgrading the greens and bunkers, and then send the US Open there every six years or so. I had dinner last year with golf architect Rees Jones, who built the great new third hole at Torrey Pines South that I use as an iSteve logo in the right hand column. Give him a lot of money and the environmental clearances to go down into the canyons and he could build a showcase municipal course for American golf.

  130. “Anybody could play” = 115 dollars to play one single round in 2019 dollars, according to one inflation calculator i checked.

    steve has a strange sense of how just anybody could afford to play golf back in the day.

    115 dollars is about what it costs to go skiing or snowboarding for a day at a decent resort. nobody out there is trying to argue that skiing is a sport open to the masses.

  131. anonymous[421] • Disclaimer says:
    @Apollo
    One of my friends got two rounds in on the course a couple of weekends ago with his father and grandfather, and I haven’t heard of him swinging the sticks for at least five years now. He used to be a relatively good golfer, but I imagine he was just hacking at it after this much time away from the game. And I figured that they were in the time period before a major tournament in which they would care more than usual. I assume that if there is any regulation of play quality it is self-reported before the round starts, and once you’re out there the caddies will just try and keep speed of play up.

    wwebd said: I am pretty bad at hitting the fairway with my woods so when I am with my friends on a course that is not totally deserted (and I play lots of deserted courses) I play best ball – in order to keep the speed of play going, I only hit with a five iron where a pro golfer would use a wood —– if my five iron (typically around 200 yards near the middle of the fairway, a little more if a little errant) is in a better spot than the wayward wood tee shot, I will play it from where it lays, otherwise I will just pick up and catch up.

    Except at the most competitive level, Rules are for losers.

    also I no longer have a bucket list for golf courses I have played at all the ones PG Wodehouse played at in America and I am not going to play golf in England

    • Replies: @anonymous
    wwebd said - that 200 yards is of course, slightly downhill. No slope, we are generally looking at 175 or 180.

    verbum sapienti
  132. anonymous[400] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous
    wwebd said: I am pretty bad at hitting the fairway with my woods so when I am with my friends on a course that is not totally deserted (and I play lots of deserted courses) I play best ball - in order to keep the speed of play going, I only hit with a five iron where a pro golfer would use a wood ----- if my five iron (typically around 200 yards near the middle of the fairway, a little more if a little errant) is in a better spot than the wayward wood tee shot, I will play it from where it lays, otherwise I will just pick up and catch up.

    Except at the most competitive level, Rules are for losers.

    also I no longer have a bucket list for golf courses I have played at all the ones PG Wodehouse played at in America and I am not going to play golf in England

    wwebd said – that 200 yards is of course, slightly downhill. No slope, we are generally looking at 175 or 180.

    verbum sapienti

  133. Interesting.

    They’re going back to Torrey in 2021 for the US Open maybe changes will be made ahead of this. Probably have to hurry if so.

    Pebble just seemed to make it a more prestigious win. I think the US open at Pebble is on par with the Masters. Pebble US Open winners have a little more status.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Right, Nicklaus in 1972 in the wind, Watson chipping in to be Nicklaus in 1982, Tom Kite finally winning a major in the wind in 1992, Tiger winning by 15 strokes in his peak year 2000. Winning the US Open at Pebble Beach is a big deal.
    , @Desiderius
    When Tiger gets his tour stop back my money’s on Torrey.
  134. @Desiderius
    He ran out of that mental energy Koepka conserved. The ground level view of Koepka’s last putt showed that he was robbed. It was the second shot club selection that really hurt, and maybe the first. Driver brings a two into play.

    Woodland was on a mission. I know the feeling - baby needs a new pair of shoes is a helluva drug.

    He wasn’t money motivated. Those guys have more than enough. It was about his reputation. He was known as a non closer (choker) but got it done under the most extreme pressure. Amazing performance.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Totally agree. The manliness boost one gets from having one in diapers and two in the oven has nothing to do with money. It’s Mother Nature’s thumb on the scale.
  135. @Danindc
    Interesting.

    They’re going back to Torrey in 2021 for the US Open maybe changes will be made ahead of this. Probably have to hurry if so.

    Pebble just seemed to make it a more prestigious win. I think the US open at Pebble is on par with the Masters. Pebble US Open winners have a little more status.

    Right, Nicklaus in 1972 in the wind, Watson chipping in to be Nicklaus in 1982, Tom Kite finally winning a major in the wind in 1992, Tiger winning by 15 strokes in his peak year 2000. Winning the US Open at Pebble Beach is a big deal.

  136. anonymous[421] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian
    This has nothing to do with Pebble Beach, but...

    Recently I've been reading accounts of Casanova's life, just to check if my impression of the era- after reading his 3,500 pages memoir decades ago- was correct. Well- in my current opinion, it was. Casanova was an interesting & intriguing man, but basically shallow as the entire century he epitomized.

    The 18th C was an enormously important century, perhaps the turning point in past 500 years world history. But, it was- with its Classicism, Rococo etc- "small", with silly wigs, superficial & down to earth, "practical", emotionally underdeveloped, intellectually not courageous enough. Not a century of geniuses, except in mathematics (Euler).

    In philosophy, it did produce Kant, but I'm not sure he's of the stature of Leibniz or Spinoza (most will disagree with me). It was all, with Hume and Kant, anthropocentric & somehow ... "not enough". By the way, Kant also wrote essay on the beautiful & the sublime.

    In music, the archetypal 18th C composer, Mozart defies & defeats my dissatisfaction. True, Bach died in 1750., but he belongs to a different era, as does Beethoven to the later.

    In writing, Voltaire as the central 18th C author is small compared to the great Renaissance & Baroque authors, as well as chief 19th C writers.

    With visual arts, it is Watteau, Tiepolo,..all 2nd rate.

    I know this is one those nasty generalizations, but is there something connecting American supreme success in the world & her creative second-ratedness, not just in art, but in all fields except technology?

    Something cruel, along the lines what late John Updike said about American literature & life...

    How many of our classics, notoriously, deal not with American society but with its asocial margins—a whale hunt on the high seas, a refugee boy and a black slave on a river raft, the outcast Hester Prynne, the expatriate heroes of Hemingway and Henry James, seeking fulfillment and aesthetic satisfaction everywhere but at home in the United States. A critic can make too much of this; but assume it is somewhat true—what might the reasons be? Let me propose four.

    One, with exceptions like Washington Irving and William Dean Howells, who tend to bore posterity, the American writer has few traditional ties to the power establishment of the country, and ordinarily distrusts and scorns its politicians, businessmen, bureaucrats, managers, and even its workers—all those, in short, who make the society go are dismissed by a Puritan idealism that sees the compromises and maneuvers of bourgeois striving as unworthy of sympathetic consideration. Two, the ideal of a classless society, in which there is no aristocracy, no peasantry, no servant class, in a perverse way makes us less accessible to one another, by depriving our imaginations of those colorful badges and mannerisms and assigned duties with which characterization can begin. Three, the very triumph of American popular culture in this century coats the individual, whom the writer would hold up to cultural study, in an impervious skin of cultural cliché; the crises of will and desire that occupy nineteenth-century novels are as it were kidded away by the image-saturated modern consciousness, which has pre-experienced everything, in a trivializing and dulling abundance of unearned sophistication: this weariness of knowingness was wonderfully captured in the fiction of the late Donald Barthelme. And four, perhaps a culture that never had a pagan or medieval epoch doesn’t leave one much to say about being human; when, in a nation soundly founded on eighteenth-century rationalism and nineteenth-century laws of material exchange, Homo sapiens has been stripped of superstitious loyalties and quixotic delusions, what is left is a bald consumer, an animal of purely selfish appetites and purely biological motives whose genetically determined life-events scarcely warrant the glamorization of fiction.
     

    wwebd said: fascinating comment.

    Replying in part to the comment, and leaving aside the Updike quote:

    it is not just Mozart, there are about a dozen composers who often wrote at Mozart level in the 18th century.

    In Russia, Pushkin (born 1799, considered rather conservative in the early 19th century) is considered their greatest poet. Not by a little, but by a lot. So Russians have a lot more respect for the 18th century, as a century of genius-level art, than many non-Russians ……

    Richardson (the guy who wrote Clarissa Harlowe) was a better novelist than any Englishman who lived after him, and of course Jane Austen is one of the only novelists of early days who is still widely read. Both were 18th century authors, at heart …. and both were real geniuses, while Voltaire, as amusing as he was back in the day, was not

    As for painting, well, every century has produced thousands of wonderful paintings and tens of thousands of wonderful drawings, and one would really have to have an almost supernatural understanding of art history to be able to say that one century had less genius than any other century, except of course for the decades when Titian was young …. I will not argue with anyone who says those were years when human art as expressed in paintings was almost angelic. But Chardin and Reynolds and a few others were also close to angelic in inspiration ….

    back to the Updike quote: he expressed what he was trying to say fairly well, he was a clever person.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "it is not just Mozart, there are about a dozen composers who often wrote at Mozart level in the 18th century."

    BS. You have to be consistent per your own observation. Which 18th century composure is instantly recalled today? Who's the first one? Mozart. Exception of a part, would be JS Bach. But Mozart's Q score dwarfs everyone else. Of course there are others (Haydn, Handel, etc) but with Mozart's repertoire? Ballets, Operas, Sonatas, Symphonies? Literally putting his stamp on Western Music for the entire half millennium? Might want to rethink that. And...he was writing actual pieces of music when he was FIVE YEARS OLD. By the time he was twelve he was writing maturely developed music that grown adults can only dream of. What are most kids doing at five years old?

    "Chardin and Reynolds and a few others were also close to angelic in inspiration …."

    Putting those dudes in same sentence with Italian Renaissance Masters is pure heresy. Complete heresy, and I'm sorry that such a sentence graced these pages. And disgusting. Might have well as mentioned Dali and Picasso while you were at it.
  137. @Danindc
    Interesting.

    They’re going back to Torrey in 2021 for the US Open maybe changes will be made ahead of this. Probably have to hurry if so.

    Pebble just seemed to make it a more prestigious win. I think the US open at Pebble is on par with the Masters. Pebble US Open winners have a little more status.

    When Tiger gets his tour stop back my money’s on Torrey.

  138. @Bardon Kaldian
    This has nothing to do with Pebble Beach, but...

    Recently I've been reading accounts of Casanova's life, just to check if my impression of the era- after reading his 3,500 pages memoir decades ago- was correct. Well- in my current opinion, it was. Casanova was an interesting & intriguing man, but basically shallow as the entire century he epitomized.

    The 18th C was an enormously important century, perhaps the turning point in past 500 years world history. But, it was- with its Classicism, Rococo etc- "small", with silly wigs, superficial & down to earth, "practical", emotionally underdeveloped, intellectually not courageous enough. Not a century of geniuses, except in mathematics (Euler).

    In philosophy, it did produce Kant, but I'm not sure he's of the stature of Leibniz or Spinoza (most will disagree with me). It was all, with Hume and Kant, anthropocentric & somehow ... "not enough". By the way, Kant also wrote essay on the beautiful & the sublime.

    In music, the archetypal 18th C composer, Mozart defies & defeats my dissatisfaction. True, Bach died in 1750., but he belongs to a different era, as does Beethoven to the later.

    In writing, Voltaire as the central 18th C author is small compared to the great Renaissance & Baroque authors, as well as chief 19th C writers.

    With visual arts, it is Watteau, Tiepolo,..all 2nd rate.

    I know this is one those nasty generalizations, but is there something connecting American supreme success in the world & her creative second-ratedness, not just in art, but in all fields except technology?

    Something cruel, along the lines what late John Updike said about American literature & life...

    How many of our classics, notoriously, deal not with American society but with its asocial margins—a whale hunt on the high seas, a refugee boy and a black slave on a river raft, the outcast Hester Prynne, the expatriate heroes of Hemingway and Henry James, seeking fulfillment and aesthetic satisfaction everywhere but at home in the United States. A critic can make too much of this; but assume it is somewhat true—what might the reasons be? Let me propose four.

    One, with exceptions like Washington Irving and William Dean Howells, who tend to bore posterity, the American writer has few traditional ties to the power establishment of the country, and ordinarily distrusts and scorns its politicians, businessmen, bureaucrats, managers, and even its workers—all those, in short, who make the society go are dismissed by a Puritan idealism that sees the compromises and maneuvers of bourgeois striving as unworthy of sympathetic consideration. Two, the ideal of a classless society, in which there is no aristocracy, no peasantry, no servant class, in a perverse way makes us less accessible to one another, by depriving our imaginations of those colorful badges and mannerisms and assigned duties with which characterization can begin. Three, the very triumph of American popular culture in this century coats the individual, whom the writer would hold up to cultural study, in an impervious skin of cultural cliché; the crises of will and desire that occupy nineteenth-century novels are as it were kidded away by the image-saturated modern consciousness, which has pre-experienced everything, in a trivializing and dulling abundance of unearned sophistication: this weariness of knowingness was wonderfully captured in the fiction of the late Donald Barthelme. And four, perhaps a culture that never had a pagan or medieval epoch doesn’t leave one much to say about being human; when, in a nation soundly founded on eighteenth-century rationalism and nineteenth-century laws of material exchange, Homo sapiens has been stripped of superstitious loyalties and quixotic delusions, what is left is a bald consumer, an animal of purely selfish appetites and purely biological motives whose genetically determined life-events scarcely warrant the glamorization of fiction.
     

    is there something connecting American supreme success in the world & her creative second-ratedness, not just in art, but in all fields except technology?

    Yes.

    We’re getting your bolded part right now good and hard. Careful what you wish for.

  139. @Danindc
    He wasn’t money motivated. Those guys have more than enough. It was about his reputation. He was known as a non closer (choker) but got it done under the most extreme pressure. Amazing performance.

    Totally agree. The manliness boost one gets from having one in diapers and two in the oven has nothing to do with money. It’s Mother Nature’s thumb on the scale.

  140. @Desiderius
    If Tiger had gone 4 under on the first six (as Koepka did) rather than 4 over, he’d have tied second with a 61.

    If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d have Christmas everyday. Did Eldrick win this Major?

    NO!

    TICK. TICK. TICK.

  141. @Steve Sailer
    Golf course connoisseurship has increased vastly over my lifetime. Golf was popular in 1973, and Pebble Beach had recently hosted the 1972 US Open, but there wasn't all that much demand back then to play the legendary courses.

    Keep in mind that Pebble Beach isn't that much fun of a course because the way it keeps the best golfers in the world from going 25 under par without being a very long course is by having tiny greens. So a pretty good approach shot can get severely punished. Pebble Beach is a little like the Robert Trent Jones' new course at Ballybunion in Ireland, which is built on incredible sand dunes. It would be hugely fun if the greens weren't so punitively small. But when the wind blows it's just hard hard hard.

    The most fun course I've ever played is the National Golf Links of America in South Hampton, with Ballybunion's Old Course second.

    That said, Pebble Beach's holes 6-10 are as great as it gets.

    Steve, your well informed information regarding golf only serves to make the point that you really, really should consider writing the definitive book on the sport. It truly seems to be one of your passions. Nearly every type of detail, large and small, and everything in between, seems to be covered in depth by your perceptive noticing.

    Might as well write it. Lord knows your various posts over the years pertaining to some aspect of golf could just about write itself by this point into a fairly large coffee table sized tome. It’s your passion, and it should be written into book form.

  142. @anonymous
    wwebd said: fascinating comment.

    Replying in part to the comment, and leaving aside the Updike quote:


    it is not just Mozart, there are about a dozen composers who often wrote at Mozart level in the 18th century.

    In Russia, Pushkin (born 1799, considered rather conservative in the early 19th century) is considered their greatest poet. Not by a little, but by a lot. So Russians have a lot more respect for the 18th century, as a century of genius-level art, than many non-Russians ......

    Richardson (the guy who wrote Clarissa Harlowe) was a better novelist than any Englishman who lived after him, and of course Jane Austen is one of the only novelists of early days who is still widely read. Both were 18th century authors, at heart .... and both were real geniuses, while Voltaire, as amusing as he was back in the day, was not

    As for painting, well, every century has produced thousands of wonderful paintings and tens of thousands of wonderful drawings, and one would really have to have an almost supernatural understanding of art history to be able to say that one century had less genius than any other century, except of course for the decades when Titian was young .... I will not argue with anyone who says those were years when human art as expressed in paintings was almost angelic. But Chardin and Reynolds and a few others were also close to angelic in inspiration ....

    back to the Updike quote: he expressed what he was trying to say fairly well, he was a clever person.

    “it is not just Mozart, there are about a dozen composers who often wrote at Mozart level in the 18th century.”

    BS. You have to be consistent per your own observation. Which 18th century composure is instantly recalled today? Who’s the first one? Mozart. Exception of a part, would be JS Bach. But Mozart’s Q score dwarfs everyone else. Of course there are others (Haydn, Handel, etc) but with Mozart’s repertoire? Ballets, Operas, Sonatas, Symphonies? Literally putting his stamp on Western Music for the entire half millennium? Might want to rethink that. And…he was writing actual pieces of music when he was FIVE YEARS OLD. By the time he was twelve he was writing maturely developed music that grown adults can only dream of. What are most kids doing at five years old?

    “Chardin and Reynolds and a few others were also close to angelic in inspiration ….”

    Putting those dudes in same sentence with Italian Renaissance Masters is pure heresy. Complete heresy, and I’m sorry that such a sentence graced these pages. And disgusting. Might have well as mentioned Dali and Picasso while you were at it.

  143. @PV van der Byl
    Oh no! Fortunately, though, I know a couple of guys are.

    I’m still impressed. My father, a member for over forty years of the MPCC, hardly ever got a look-in.

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