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From WFAA:

CRANE TO BE USED IN ROBERT E. LEE STATUE REMOVAL INVOLVED IN FATAL CRASH

The crane was en route from the Houston area when it was involved in an accident with an 18-wheeler at I-45 and Linfield road, just south of downtown Dallas around 8:15 p.m.

09/11/17

Why the rush to tear down statues?

To prevent BLM enthusiasts from massacring more Dallas cops by conceding them their demands quickly. From the Dallas News:

As Mayor Pro Tem Dwaine Caraway arrived to bask in the result of this hastened action, I asked about the basis for the rush to judgment.

Q. Why couldn’t we wait the 90 days for the task force? Why did this have to happen in such a rush?

A. Well, number one, it’s not really a rush, but it is a rush, and it is an emergency for all of the citizens of Dallas.

Q. Emergency? Defined how?

A. When the police in the last rally were out protecting us, the citizens of Dallas, our police were at risk. What was not reported was the fact that they had bottles being thrown at them, and they were armed, of course, and we did not need to revisit something that occurred a year ago on the 7th.

Q. Right. The horrible July 7th massacre. What does that have to do with this?

A. Because there were going to be more rallies. And with more rallies, that would mean that folks in our police would have been at risk at every single rally, every single weekend.

 
88 Comments to "Our Dumb America"
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  1. eah says:

    OT

    Galveston, 1900.

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  2. Odd that a Houston based crane was sent. DFW has many rigging contractors.

    Read More
  3. Vinteuil says:

    As horrific as this tragedy was, if our diversity becomes a casualty, I think that’s worse.

    Read More
    • LOL: TomSchmidt
    • Replies: @Pericles

    CRANE TO BE USED IN ROBERT E. LEE STATUE REMOVAL INVOLVED IN FATAL CRASH

     

    It was trying to turn its life around, aspiring rapper and starting college.
  4. Barnard says:

    At first I wasn’t sure if this was satire, but I think it is an actual interview with Mayor Pro Tem Dwaine Caraway. He says the statue has to be removed to prevent protesters from attacking law enforcement officers.

    https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/09/07/removing-dallas-robert-e-lee-statue-emergency

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.
    , @Russ
    Dallas? It was in Dallas that a white councilman described a hopeless money-losing proposition as a "black hole," whereupon his black colleague took umbrage at such racist language in this day and age. One must wonder if said black councilman is now mayor pro tem. Dallas.
  5. Steve, I can’t remember if it was you or your wife who was an alum of U of I, but my wife is and she receives a newsletter from the U of I communication department entitled “speaking of… communication”. Anyway the lead article if titled “The Race to Study Race Expands to New Territory”.

    Disappointingly, the content of the article does not live up to its name, as it is a “study” of social media habits (ground breaking!) as opposed to any real exploration of the studies related to HBD. Curious to know if you had seen it or had any thoughts on it. Sadly, I can’t find a link to it on their website.

    Read More
  6. eah says:
    Read More
    • Replies: @SFG
    And you're not even counting parentheticals.
    , @Travis
    thanks for the charts. In addition to less whites our best universities are now filled with foreigners...about 24% of Harvard undergrads are not US citizens , back in 1980 over 90% of the students were American born.
    , @eah
    https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/907251899501604864
    , @Desiderius
    This is how the Ivies have rolled back their meritocratic reforms of the 60s. Keep the legacies and rich kids and replace the smart white ethnics and working class whites with clueless foreigners paying full price and talented tenth blacks who of course aren't really talented enough to challenge the connected whites.

    In a similar way they've bought back in loco parentis by calling it Title IX. In either case the goal is to keep daddy's princess unsullied so he'll keep scratching those checks.

    Our bitch-goddess Progress will not be denied, but evidently she can be fooled here and there as long as the regress is disguised by the appropriate SJW bullshit.
    , @CK
    From nothing in 2009, the multi-racial enrolment category now matches the black enrolment category. Is that a new special benefits category for really smart kids?
    , @keypusher
    This needs to be compared with the changes in American demographics over the same time period, surely? Even the clueless NYT intern Steve posted about the other day knew that the school-age Hispanic population had increased by something 47% since 2000.

    You can't just ascribe it all to foreign students and affirmative action (which the Ivies were practicing aggressively by 1980 anyway).
  7. Did the Houston area not having anything more urgent to do with this crane? Couldn’t they have just sacrificed a few goats and chickens in front of that statue in Dallas to keep the racist evil spirits in check for a little longer?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I seem to remember some recent, significant event in and around Houston that may have merited the focused attention of its governments, businesses, and citizenry for some time...I can't quite put my finger on it...well, I guess heavy equipment useful for the construction and repair of buildings is not relevant to whatever it was I am forgetting....
  8. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Not surprising. A back of the envelope calculation that I just did suggests the US IQ lies around 96 at this point. I assumed all American Hispanics have an IQ in line with an old figure for Mexico’s IQ (90), assumed the white IQ was 100, the black IQ was 85, and gave a generous 102 IQ to all “others.” Of course, this is probably off – maybe we could boost it a couple of points by assuming Hispanics are a little smarter or less numerous (they are about 18% of the population but I assumed 20% here), but regardless, the collective IQ of the country will inevitably fall as the country becomes more diverse, so this figure won’t be off for long if it is now.

    (193.2)(100) + 64.4(90) + 42(85) + 23.4(102) / 323
    19320 + 5796 + 3570 + 2386.8 / 323
    = 96.2

    Read More
  9. @Barnard
    At first I wasn't sure if this was satire, but I think it is an actual interview with Mayor Pro Tem Dwaine Caraway. He says the statue has to be removed to prevent protesters from attacking law enforcement officers.

    https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/09/07/removing-dallas-robert-e-lee-statue-emergency

    Thanks.

    Read More
  10. Just another proof of how this Dead Confefe General still presents an imminent danger to our society.

    bored identity would also like to find out who sent that Alt-Crane on his murderous journey?!

    Read More
  11. Paul Rise says:

    A lot of folks in Dallas are asking if municipal laws were broken re purchasing, putting jobs out to bid etc. I think will get very ugly for the community, because there’s simply no support for removing these vestiges. $450k in a city whose public safety pension system is bankrupt, hundreds of homeless literally living in sewers, rising crime, now unexpected cost from Harvey refugees etc. etc.

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  12. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    “He says the statue has to be removed to prevent protesters from attacking law enforcement officers.”

    That’s just an excuse. They could, instead, arrest the perps who do that and give them harsh sentences to deter the rest. They wouldn’t even have to arrest all of them…just a handful. Wait for some of them to leave the area, and then bust them at home and away from the spotlight.

    The great thing about technology these days is that a picture of a criminal committing a criminal act in public can live forever on the internet, meaning they’ll all be caught eventually – assuming the picture quality is good enough (and getting better all the time).

    P.S. AI is getting pretty good at identifying faces. Have an AI look at photos and compare them with a driver’s license database. They could all be identified before your lunch break.

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  13. SFG says:
    @eah
    OT

    Ivy League enrollment, 1980 through today. Dramatic demographic change in the span of a generation.

    A couple of student generations -- approx 2x 18 years.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJXeCfuUEAET21z.jpg

    And you’re not even counting parentheticals.

    Read More
    • LOL: Anonym
    • Replies: @Anon
    WASP males are down in the single digits now.

    Right where they belong, amirite?
  14. This whole business is an abject concession to terrorists; incontrivertably so. That one – a group or an individual, it matters not – can now silence speakers, end peaceful demonstrators, destroy monuments, even have laws changed or ignored – in short, that one can dictate how society is governed and control the actions of both public bodies and private persons – via violence or the threat of violence is the very epitomy of terrorism and the antithesis of democracy.

    Read More
  15. @Cagey Beast
    Did the Houston area not having anything more urgent to do with this crane? Couldn't they have just sacrificed a few goats and chickens in front of that statue in Dallas to keep the racist evil spirits in check for a little longer?

    I seem to remember some recent, significant event in and around Houston that may have merited the focused attention of its governments, businesses, and citizenry for some time…I can’t quite put my finger on it…well, I guess heavy equipment useful for the construction and repair of buildings is not relevant to whatever it was I am forgetting….

    Read More
  16. White Southerners are the base of the Republican Party. White Southerners do not appreciate the anti-White animosity that compels the Black-run Democrat Party to desecrate, destroy and remove monuments to the brave men who fought for the Confederacy.

    The anti-White thug who killed all those cops in Dallas was fueled by the words and actions of Obama and many members of the Democrat Party. White Southerners will remember the evil scum who attack their ancestors.

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  17. Reminds me of our Navy. Executing missions which are not important to the US in the first place, the personnel are too incompetent to carry them out without mishaps. The US acts as if the US population pool and relative wealth of nations is exactly as it was in 1960. Japan? Defend it! Statue? Remove it! High speed rail? Build it!

    Read More
  18. After all, its not as if they’ll need the crane in Houston for any construction projects or demolition anytime soon.

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  19. Dr. X says:

    Why the rush to tear down statues?

    To prevent BLM enthusiasts from massacring more Dallas cops by conceding them their demands quickly.

    When I read about this kind of stuff, it’s almost as if I’m reading about a foreign country, not America. My town is 98.7% white. People here still have Sambo lawn jockeys in their front yards. We have no municipal police force.

    And we have no such issues here.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Brief note: the "original Lawn Jockey" was actually commissioned by George Washington to memorialize a slave who died keeping military horses warm during the intense winter at Valley Forge.
    What do you want to bet that nobody at BLM wants a white man statue replaced with a larger and more respectful version of the original Lawn Jockey?
    , @Danindc
    Where do you live?
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Don't worry. You (or your children) will get to enjoy the joys of diversity soon enough.
  20. J.Ross says: • Website

    So literally “we must concede without a fight to foreign-supported terrorists who disrupt our city and murder our police — or else god knows what they’ll do next.”
    This is why some of us on this side almost wish Hillary had stolen it. The resulting synthesis would be unpleasant but very brief.

    Read More
    • Replies: @c matt
    I also mused over the "rip off the bandaid" vs. "death by a thousands cuts" approaches last November.
  21. All they have to do is unmask the domestic terrorists. Literally. First with the prohibition on masks, as we did historically with the KKK. Then with video cameras.

    The bike lock attacker was captured with open source internet work, despite being masked. But when you unmask them, the ubiquitous video cameras have them cold. On the spot.

    They can capture your license plate number if you don’t pay the toll, it’s extremely simple when they actually want to go after someone. But if it’s paid Soros/DNC thugs, why – law enforcement just can’t come up with any evidence against people.

    It’s proof to me how rigged things have been for these stage-managed media events.

    Read More
  22. Travis says:
    @eah
    OT

    Ivy League enrollment, 1980 through today. Dramatic demographic change in the span of a generation.

    A couple of student generations -- approx 2x 18 years.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJXeCfuUEAET21z.jpg

    thanks for the charts. In addition to less whites our best universities are now filled with foreigners…about 24% of Harvard undergrads are not US citizens , back in 1980 over 90% of the students were American born.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That is mostly about the $$$$. Non-Americans generally pay full price. American citizens have access to financial aid, and at Harvard-level schools, my understanding is that at least half of Americans are on financial aid, which often covers a major proportion of the cost. In some cases it covers almost the entire cost.

    Here's an interesting question: how do PRC Chinese do in HYP admission compared with American Chinese? I think Ron Unz has shown that Asians and non-Jewish whites do much more poorly than expected. I haven't looked this up, but I suspect he is talking about Asian-Americans.

    Someone should do a review of Chinese ethnicity HYP admission by nation.
    , @keuril

    In addition to less whites our best universities are now filled with foreigners…about 24% of Harvard undergrads are not US citizens
     
    I don’t know where you got the 24% figure for foreigners, but that’s not correct. In this press release Harvard states that 11.4% of admitted students for the class of 2021 are International.
    https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2017/03/2056-applicants-were-invited-today-to-join-harvard-colleges-class-of-2021/

    And the 11.4% figure is pretty typical—the 2014-15 Common Data Set shows 755 out of 6636 undergrads were international.
    https://oir.harvard.edu/files/huoir/files/harvard_cds_2014-15.pdf
  23. “Well, number one, it’s not really a rush, but it is a rush…”

    The late great Shelley Berman isn’t even cold in the ground and already they’re stealing from him: “I used to think I might be indecisive, but as I get older… I’m not so sure.”

    Read More
  24. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Travis
    thanks for the charts. In addition to less whites our best universities are now filled with foreigners...about 24% of Harvard undergrads are not US citizens , back in 1980 over 90% of the students were American born.

    That is mostly about the $$$$. Non-Americans generally pay full price. American citizens have access to financial aid, and at Harvard-level schools, my understanding is that at least half of Americans are on financial aid, which often covers a major proportion of the cost. In some cases it covers almost the entire cost.

    Here’s an interesting question: how do PRC Chinese do in HYP admission compared with American Chinese? I think Ron Unz has shown that Asians and non-Jewish whites do much more poorly than expected. I haven’t looked this up, but I suspect he is talking about Asian-Americans.

    Someone should do a review of Chinese ethnicity HYP admission by nation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @keuril

    Here’s an interesting question: how do PRC Chinese do in HYP admission compared with American Chinese?
     
    There are about 6700 undergrads at Harvard, of which 59 are Chinese nationals. So, less than 1%. International students aren’t included in the racial breakdowns published by colleges—those are all Americans. I don’t know whether Harvard provides a breakdown of Asian-Americans by country of origin, but if Chinese-Americans are, say, a third of the 22.2% who are Asian, then that is 7.4% Chinese-Americans, vs. like 0.8% Chinese nationals. The odds of getting in are much better for Chinese-Americans, so anybody holding both US and Chinese passports would be advised to apply as an American.

    I think Ron Unz has shown that Asians and non-Jewish whites do much more poorly than expected.
     
    Asians are admitted in much greater numbers than their share of the population. On the other hand, they are competing against other Asians for a spot in that 22%. On the other, other hand, there are fewer Asian legacies than there are white (and Jewish) legacies, so non-legacy Asians don’t have so much legacy competition. The same goes for athletic recruits. Asians and whites (Jews and non-Jews) who are not athletic recruits or legacies face similar levels of difficulty in getting in.

    Harvard provides a handy tool for checking how many International students come from where:
    http://www.hio.harvard.edu/statistics
  25. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Dr. X

    Why the rush to tear down statues?

    To prevent BLM enthusiasts from massacring more Dallas cops by conceding them their demands quickly.
     
    When I read about this kind of stuff, it's almost as if I'm reading about a foreign country, not America. My town is 98.7% white. People here still have Sambo lawn jockeys in their front yards. We have no municipal police force.

    And we have no such issues here.

    Brief note: the “original Lawn Jockey” was actually commissioned by George Washington to memorialize a slave who died keeping military horses warm during the intense winter at Valley Forge.
    What do you want to bet that nobody at BLM wants a white man statue replaced with a larger and more respectful version of the original Lawn Jockey?

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    It looks like that George Washington story may be apocryphal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawn_jockey#Background
    Do you have a reference for it?
  26. eah says:
    @eah
    OT

    Ivy League enrollment, 1980 through today. Dramatic demographic change in the span of a generation.

    A couple of student generations -- approx 2x 18 years.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJXeCfuUEAET21z.jpg

    Read More
  27. Jake says:

    American Liberals are every bot as insane and a-logical as were true believing Bolsheviks.

    Read More
  28. Why did this have to happen in such a rush?

    Well, number one, it’s not really a rush, but it is a rush, and it is an emergency for all of the citizens of Dallas.

    That’s the sort of perfect nonsense that would’ve merited a clip on the old Daily Show with Jon Stewart. (If the feller was a Republican, of course.)

    Read More
  29. Tiny Duck says:

    Or maybe we just want to do the right thing and not celebrate symbols of racism treason and genocide.

    I hope you guys know the vast majority of people don’t support white supremacy

    Read More
    • Replies: @Danindc
    Have you been reading @verysmartbros ???
    , @Mr. Anon

    Or maybe we just want to do the right thing and not celebrate symbols of racism treason and genocide.
     
    Or to paraphrase (and conflate) Psycho Duck and Noel Ignatiev:

    Treason to racism is loyalty to genocide.

    Or something.

    , @fish

    Oh Tiny….how come you be Tiny here but Tynisha Dainty other places?

    Leonard be confused!

    - Leonard Pitts
     
    , @c matt
    It is not the fact that the majority of people don't support white supremacy that concerns me - it's that the majority of people don't even support white equality that concerns me.
  30. res says:
    @J.Ross
    Brief note: the "original Lawn Jockey" was actually commissioned by George Washington to memorialize a slave who died keeping military horses warm during the intense winter at Valley Forge.
    What do you want to bet that nobody at BLM wants a white man statue replaced with a larger and more respectful version of the original Lawn Jockey?

    It looks like that George Washington story may be apocryphal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawn_jockey#Background
    Do you have a reference for it?

    Read More
  31. @eah
    OT

    Ivy League enrollment, 1980 through today. Dramatic demographic change in the span of a generation.

    A couple of student generations -- approx 2x 18 years.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJXeCfuUEAET21z.jpg

    This is how the Ivies have rolled back their meritocratic reforms of the 60s. Keep the legacies and rich kids and replace the smart white ethnics and working class whites with clueless foreigners paying full price and talented tenth blacks who of course aren’t really talented enough to challenge the connected whites.

    In a similar way they’ve bought back in loco parentis by calling it Title IX. In either case the goal is to keep daddy’s princess unsullied so he’ll keep scratching those checks.

    Our bitch-goddess Progress will not be denied, but evidently she can be fooled here and there as long as the regress is disguised by the appropriate SJW bullshit.

    Read More
    • Replies: @keuril
    Sorry, but you have no clue how hard it is to get into a top university nowadays.
    , @Vinteuil
    "Keep the legacies and rich kids and replace the smart white ethnics and working class whites with clueless foreigners" - exactly. And the best part is, the continuing preference for legacy & wealthy dolts allows them to claim that smart working class whites are in no position to complain about racial preferences - 'cause (certain other) whites get preferences too!

    It's really kind of brilliant, when you think about it.
  32. Tyrion says:

    Black Americans have a huge problem with criminality. Generally, this is saddest for the non-criminal black American majority. Nonetheless it does serve as a sea for black American political violence to swim in, which makes such violence very hard to stamp out and therefore very effective. It is also why copying BLM tactics won’t work for other groups.

    Read More
  33. Danindc says:
    @Dr. X

    Why the rush to tear down statues?

    To prevent BLM enthusiasts from massacring more Dallas cops by conceding them their demands quickly.
     
    When I read about this kind of stuff, it's almost as if I'm reading about a foreign country, not America. My town is 98.7% white. People here still have Sambo lawn jockeys in their front yards. We have no municipal police force.

    And we have no such issues here.

    Where do you live?

    Read More
  34. Danindc says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Or maybe we just want to do the right thing and not celebrate symbols of racism treason and genocide.

    I hope you guys know the vast majority of people don't support white supremacy

    Have you been reading @verysmartbros ???

    Read More
  35. Mr. Anon says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Or maybe we just want to do the right thing and not celebrate symbols of racism treason and genocide.

    I hope you guys know the vast majority of people don't support white supremacy

    Or maybe we just want to do the right thing and not celebrate symbols of racism treason and genocide.

    Or to paraphrase (and conflate) Psycho Duck and Noel Ignatiev:

    Treason to racism is loyalty to genocide.

    Or something.

    Read More
  36. Mr. Anon says:

    Q. Emergency? Defined how?

    A. When the police in the last rally were out protecting us, the citizens of Dallas, our police were at risk. What was not reported was the fact that they had bottles being thrown at them, and they were armed, of course, and we did not need to revisit something that occurred a year ago on the 7th.

    Q. Right. The horrible July 7th massacre. What does that have to do with this?

    A. Because there were going to be more rallies. And with more rallies, that would mean that folks in our police would have been at risk at every single rally, every single weekend.

    Right – because the guy who murdered all those cops last summer was undoubtedly a big Robert E. Lee supporter.

    Or course, the bottles he mentions were probably being thrown by antifa goons, who – if there are no neo-nazis around, or alt-rightists, or just conservatives, or even just blue-haired old church-ladies – always vent their wrath at the fuzz.

    Read More
  37. El Dato says:

    “Every single rally. Every single weekend.”

    This ain’t gonna stop, ever.

    It’s ants.

    Give me the phone number of Mr. Leiningen.

    Read More
  38. keuril says:
    @Desiderius
    This is how the Ivies have rolled back their meritocratic reforms of the 60s. Keep the legacies and rich kids and replace the smart white ethnics and working class whites with clueless foreigners paying full price and talented tenth blacks who of course aren't really talented enough to challenge the connected whites.

    In a similar way they've bought back in loco parentis by calling it Title IX. In either case the goal is to keep daddy's princess unsullied so he'll keep scratching those checks.

    Our bitch-goddess Progress will not be denied, but evidently she can be fooled here and there as long as the regress is disguised by the appropriate SJW bullshit.

    Sorry, but you have no clue how hard it is to get into a top university nowadays.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    While internationals have a great interest in studying in top-tier US institutions, few Americans are interested in studying at the top institutions in Europe, Canada, Hong Kong or Singapore.
    , @Desiderius
    That was my point Einstein.
    , @dr kill
    That is his point, Einstein. Regular peeps got no shot.
  39. Maj. Kong says:
    @keuril
    Sorry, but you have no clue how hard it is to get into a top university nowadays.

    While internationals have a great interest in studying in top-tier US institutions, few Americans are interested in studying at the top institutions in Europe, Canada, Hong Kong or Singapore.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Might be wise for more Americans to learn mandarin and study in Singapore or Hong Kong. Our kids are learning mandarin from a young age and we will definitely not discourage them from going where much of the action and progress is going to be.
  40. @keuril
    Sorry, but you have no clue how hard it is to get into a top university nowadays.

    That was my point Einstein.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Instead of taking the top (-ish) .01% of unconnected whites, they now take the top .001%, and make up the difference as I outlined. There's weakness in lack of numbers.

    Legacies and rich kids stayed the same.
    , @keuril
    No, you missed my point. It is now much more meritocratic than it ever was in the 60s. And you have no clue about that, as you’ve shown again.
  41. Pericles says:
    @Vinteuil
    As horrific as this tragedy was, if our diversity becomes a casualty, I think that's worse.

    CRANE TO BE USED IN ROBERT E. LEE STATUE REMOVAL INVOLVED IN FATAL CRASH

    It was trying to turn its life around, aspiring rapper and starting college.

    Read More
    • LOL: Vinteuil
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    It was trying to turn its life around, aspiring rapper and starting college.
     
    Oh, man, now you got me going on this.

    "The poor crane, it was just a gentle giant - it didn't do nuthin'. Struck down, right when it was turnin' its boom around, spreadin' it's outriggers, and reachin' fo de sky! It's egregious!"
  42. @Desiderius
    That was my point Einstein.

    Instead of taking the top (-ish) .01% of unconnected whites, they now take the top .001%, and make up the difference as I outlined. There’s weakness in lack of numbers.

    Legacies and rich kids stayed the same.

    Read More
  43. dr kill says:
    @keuril
    Sorry, but you have no clue how hard it is to get into a top university nowadays.

    That is his point, Einstein. Regular peeps got no shot.

    Read More
    • Replies: @keuril
    Actually many more people have a shot now than before. Including “regular peeps.”
  44. Russ says:
    @Barnard
    At first I wasn't sure if this was satire, but I think it is an actual interview with Mayor Pro Tem Dwaine Caraway. He says the statue has to be removed to prevent protesters from attacking law enforcement officers.

    https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/09/07/removing-dallas-robert-e-lee-statue-emergency

    Dallas? It was in Dallas that a white councilman described a hopeless money-losing proposition as a “black hole,” whereupon his black colleague took umbrage at such racist language in this day and age. One must wonder if said black councilman is now mayor pro tem. Dallas.

    Read More
  45. keuril says:
    @Desiderius
    That was my point Einstein.

    No, you missed my point. It is now much more meritocratic than it ever was in the 60s. And you have no clue about that, as you’ve shown again.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Can someone please help this poor soul?

    He seems to be trying to understand in good faith, but he's exhausted my patience.
  46. @Dr. X

    Why the rush to tear down statues?

    To prevent BLM enthusiasts from massacring more Dallas cops by conceding them their demands quickly.
     
    When I read about this kind of stuff, it's almost as if I'm reading about a foreign country, not America. My town is 98.7% white. People here still have Sambo lawn jockeys in their front yards. We have no municipal police force.

    And we have no such issues here.

    Don’t worry. You (or your children) will get to enjoy the joys of diversity soon enough.

    Read More
  47. @Stan d Mute
    Odd that a Houston based crane was sent. DFW has many rigging contractors.

    Where is Buffalo Joe when we need him?

    Read More
  48. keuril says:
    @dr kill
    That is his point, Einstein. Regular peeps got no shot.

    Actually many more people have a shot now than before. Including “regular peeps.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @dr kill
    Not wanting to dox you and yours, but when was the last time you tried to get into a good grad school?
  49. keuril says:
    @Travis
    thanks for the charts. In addition to less whites our best universities are now filled with foreigners...about 24% of Harvard undergrads are not US citizens , back in 1980 over 90% of the students were American born.

    In addition to less whites our best universities are now filled with foreigners…about 24% of Harvard undergrads are not US citizens

    I don’t know where you got the 24% figure for foreigners, but that’s not correct. In this press release Harvard states that 11.4% of admitted students for the class of 2021 are International.

    https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2017/03/2056-applicants-were-invited-today-to-join-harvard-colleges-class-of-2021/

    And the 11.4% figure is pretty typical—the 2014-15 Common Data Set shows 755 out of 6636 undergrads were international.

    https://oir.harvard.edu/files/huoir/files/harvard_cds_2014-15.pdf

    Read More
    • Replies: @Krastos the Gluemaker
    Not that this other commenter's numbers are necessarily quite right, but you're comparing apples and oranges. Many Hispanic students at universities like Harvard who are not classified as International students are also not US citizens, say illegal immigrants, and there are some students from other racial backgrounds who fit in such categories too.

    Harvard specifically has had a lot of buzz about a huge proportion of its black students (but not just International applicants) being non-American born, not part of the US AA community, immigrants and such.
  50. keuril says:
    @Anonymous
    That is mostly about the $$$$. Non-Americans generally pay full price. American citizens have access to financial aid, and at Harvard-level schools, my understanding is that at least half of Americans are on financial aid, which often covers a major proportion of the cost. In some cases it covers almost the entire cost.

    Here's an interesting question: how do PRC Chinese do in HYP admission compared with American Chinese? I think Ron Unz has shown that Asians and non-Jewish whites do much more poorly than expected. I haven't looked this up, but I suspect he is talking about Asian-Americans.

    Someone should do a review of Chinese ethnicity HYP admission by nation.

    Here’s an interesting question: how do PRC Chinese do in HYP admission compared with American Chinese?

    There are about 6700 undergrads at Harvard, of which 59 are Chinese nationals. So, less than 1%. International students aren’t included in the racial breakdowns published by colleges—those are all Americans. I don’t know whether Harvard provides a breakdown of Asian-Americans by country of origin, but if Chinese-Americans are, say, a third of the 22.2% who are Asian, then that is 7.4% Chinese-Americans, vs. like 0.8% Chinese nationals. The odds of getting in are much better for Chinese-Americans, so anybody holding both US and Chinese passports would be advised to apply as an American.

    I think Ron Unz has shown that Asians and non-Jewish whites do much more poorly than expected.

    Asians are admitted in much greater numbers than their share of the population. On the other hand, they are competing against other Asians for a spot in that 22%. On the other, other hand, there are fewer Asian legacies than there are white (and Jewish) legacies, so non-legacy Asians don’t have so much legacy competition. The same goes for athletic recruits. Asians and whites (Jews and non-Jews) who are not athletic recruits or legacies face similar levels of difficulty in getting in.

    Harvard provides a handy tool for checking how many International students come from where:

    http://www.hio.harvard.edu/statistics

    Read More
  51. @keuril

    Here’s an interesting question: how do PRC Chinese do in HYP admission compared with American Chinese?
     
    There are about 6700 undergrads at Harvard, of which 59 are Chinese nationals. So, less than 1%. International students aren’t included in the racial breakdowns published by colleges—those are all Americans. I don’t know whether Harvard provides a breakdown of Asian-Americans by country of origin, but if Chinese-Americans are, say, a third of the 22.2% who are Asian, then that is 7.4% Chinese-Americans, vs. like 0.8% Chinese nationals. The odds of getting in are much better for Chinese-Americans, so anybody holding both US and Chinese passports would be advised to apply as an American.

    I think Ron Unz has shown that Asians and non-Jewish whites do much more poorly than expected.
     
    Asians are admitted in much greater numbers than their share of the population. On the other hand, they are competing against other Asians for a spot in that 22%. On the other, other hand, there are fewer Asian legacies than there are white (and Jewish) legacies, so non-legacy Asians don’t have so much legacy competition. The same goes for athletic recruits. Asians and whites (Jews and non-Jews) who are not athletic recruits or legacies face similar levels of difficulty in getting in.

    Harvard provides a handy tool for checking how many International students come from where:
    http://www.hio.harvard.edu/statistics

    Harvard doesn’t need foreign money as much.

    Read More
    • Replies: @keuril
    Apart from the large domestic donor base, I suspect one of the reasons Harvard favors Americans is that it wouldn’t want to jeapordize the biggest donation of all: tax-exempt status.

    Meanwhile, the Chinese are starting to flex their philanthropic muscles: https://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/07/16/chinese-property-power-couple-launches-100-million-education-fund-starting-with-harvard/
  52. @Pericles

    CRANE TO BE USED IN ROBERT E. LEE STATUE REMOVAL INVOLVED IN FATAL CRASH

     

    It was trying to turn its life around, aspiring rapper and starting college.

    It was trying to turn its life around, aspiring rapper and starting college.

    Oh, man, now you got me going on this.

    “The poor crane, it was just a gentle giant – it didn’t do nuthin’. Struck down, right when it was turnin’ its boom around, spreadin’ it’s outriggers, and reachin’ fo de sky! It’s egregious!”

    Read More
  53. keuril says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Harvard doesn't need foreign money as much.

    Apart from the large domestic donor base, I suspect one of the reasons Harvard favors Americans is that it wouldn’t want to jeapordize the biggest donation of all: tax-exempt status.

    Meanwhile, the Chinese are starting to flex their philanthropic muscles: https://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/07/16/chinese-property-power-couple-launches-100-million-education-fund-starting-with-harvard/

    Read More
  54. CK says:
    @eah
    OT

    Ivy League enrollment, 1980 through today. Dramatic demographic change in the span of a generation.

    A couple of student generations -- approx 2x 18 years.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJXeCfuUEAET21z.jpg

    From nothing in 2009, the multi-racial enrolment category now matches the black enrolment category. Is that a new special benefits category for really smart kids?

    Read More
    • Replies: @keuril
    In admissions demographics, multi-racial means part-white, part-Asian. This category does not receive any more affirmative action than Asians do. Before its invention, such students would typically be counted as Asian, unless the student, perhaps fearing anti-Asian bias, claimed only white identity (there are online articles about this sort of thing). Counting white-Asians as Asian was advantageous to the school for increasing Diversity, but disadvantageous to full Asians because it created more competition for the Asian quota. So a brand new category was created. They didn’t want to be too blatant about it, by calling it “white-Asian” or something, so they use the vague “multi-racial.” But multi-racial blacks are counted as black, and multi-racial Hispanics are counted as Hispanic, so it is effectively just a white-Asian category. Add up all the categories (white, black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American, mixed race, unknown...) listed in the Common Data Set and you should get 100%. Getting in as multi-racial is just as difficult as it is for whites or Asians.
  55. keuril says:
    @CK
    From nothing in 2009, the multi-racial enrolment category now matches the black enrolment category. Is that a new special benefits category for really smart kids?

    In admissions demographics, multi-racial means part-white, part-Asian. This category does not receive any more affirmative action than Asians do. Before its invention, such students would typically be counted as Asian, unless the student, perhaps fearing anti-Asian bias, claimed only white identity (there are online articles about this sort of thing). Counting white-Asians as Asian was advantageous to the school for increasing Diversity, but disadvantageous to full Asians because it created more competition for the Asian quota. So a brand new category was created. They didn’t want to be too blatant about it, by calling it “white-Asian” or something, so they use the vague “multi-racial.” But multi-racial blacks are counted as black, and multi-racial Hispanics are counted as Hispanic, so it is effectively just a white-Asian category. Add up all the categories (white, black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American, mixed race, unknown…) listed in the Common Data Set and you should get 100%. Getting in as multi-racial is just as difficult as it is for whites or Asians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    Getting in as multi-racial is just as difficult as it is for whites or Asians.
     
    You are eliding an important distinction. Admissions thresholds tend to be higher for Asians than for whites. Are multi-racial students treated more like Asians or whites? I believe this was CK's point.
    , @Krastos the Gluemaker
    No, the multiracial category really does include a large mishmash of groups like Arab Muslims, part Hispanic, part Amerindian individuals, some blacks not from the historic African American community, and others like Pacific Islanders, in addition to Asians who count themselves as multiracial.

    You're conflating multiple sources where the counts don't mean the same things. Of the number of students who do well on a calculus test and who are "multiracial," sure, many would be mixed race Asians. Of the number of students at some university or counted in some other context, it's not so.

    Asian Americans with high test scores of course have an easier time than white Americans with the same test scores and academic background of getting into elite universities.
  56. dr kill says:
    @keuril
    Actually many more people have a shot now than before. Including “regular peeps.”

    Not wanting to dox you and yours, but when was the last time you tried to get into a good grad school?

    Read More
    • Replies: @keuril
    My comments were made with respect to undergrad only. Despite high sticker prices, the top places are now more economically accessible to a much wider range of students. Harvard regularly claims to be cheaper for most families than their State U. Getting in may be extremely difficult (though not impossible), but if you are accepted, they don’t want cost to be the reason you don’t go. That wasn’t always the case, and is an egalitarian improvement few could take issue with.

    My personal opinion, top schools should eliminate or significantly reduce preferences for legacies and athletes. These preferences limit the number of otherwise qualified white applicants, in particular, and are a significant reason why whites have lower SAT averages than Asians. MIT doesn’t have legacy preferences and they’re doing OK.

    Re: grad school, why would you want to go to grad school? http://100rsns.blogspot.com/p/complete-list-to-date.html
  57. fish says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Or maybe we just want to do the right thing and not celebrate symbols of racism treason and genocide.

    I hope you guys know the vast majority of people don't support white supremacy

    Oh Tiny….how come you be Tiny here but Tynisha Dainty other places?

    Leonard be confused!

    - Leonard Pitts

    Read More
  58. res says:
    @keuril
    In admissions demographics, multi-racial means part-white, part-Asian. This category does not receive any more affirmative action than Asians do. Before its invention, such students would typically be counted as Asian, unless the student, perhaps fearing anti-Asian bias, claimed only white identity (there are online articles about this sort of thing). Counting white-Asians as Asian was advantageous to the school for increasing Diversity, but disadvantageous to full Asians because it created more competition for the Asian quota. So a brand new category was created. They didn’t want to be too blatant about it, by calling it “white-Asian” or something, so they use the vague “multi-racial.” But multi-racial blacks are counted as black, and multi-racial Hispanics are counted as Hispanic, so it is effectively just a white-Asian category. Add up all the categories (white, black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American, mixed race, unknown...) listed in the Common Data Set and you should get 100%. Getting in as multi-racial is just as difficult as it is for whites or Asians.

    Getting in as multi-racial is just as difficult as it is for whites or Asians.

    You are eliding an important distinction. Admissions thresholds tend to be higher for Asians than for whites. Are multi-racial students treated more like Asians or whites? I believe this was CK’s point.

    Read More
    • Replies: @keuril
    Don’t be deceived by the aggregate average scores you see for Asians vs whites. Relative to Asians, the white averages are dragged down by huge numbers of legacies and athletic recruits. If you aren’t a legacy or a recruit (or low-income, or first-generation), you will face very similar “thresholds” as white, Asian, or multi-racial. Also, the top schools have so many highly qualified applicants, it’s not going to be your SAT score that gets you in. You need something else.
  59. keuril says:
    @dr kill
    Not wanting to dox you and yours, but when was the last time you tried to get into a good grad school?

    My comments were made with respect to undergrad only. Despite high sticker prices, the top places are now more economically accessible to a much wider range of students. Harvard regularly claims to be cheaper for most families than their State U. Getting in may be extremely difficult (though not impossible), but if you are accepted, they don’t want cost to be the reason you don’t go. That wasn’t always the case, and is an egalitarian improvement few could take issue with.

    My personal opinion, top schools should eliminate or significantly reduce preferences for legacies and athletes. These preferences limit the number of otherwise qualified white applicants, in particular, and are a significant reason why whites have lower SAT averages than Asians. MIT doesn’t have legacy preferences and they’re doing OK.

    Re: grad school, why would you want to go to grad school? http://100rsns.blogspot.com/p/complete-list-to-date.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    In general, if your kid gets into HYP or S, they should likely go.
  60. keuril says:
    @res

    Getting in as multi-racial is just as difficult as it is for whites or Asians.
     
    You are eliding an important distinction. Admissions thresholds tend to be higher for Asians than for whites. Are multi-racial students treated more like Asians or whites? I believe this was CK's point.

    Don’t be deceived by the aggregate average scores you see for Asians vs whites. Relative to Asians, the white averages are dragged down by huge numbers of legacies and athletic recruits. If you aren’t a legacy or a recruit (or low-income, or first-generation), you will face very similar “thresholds” as white, Asian, or multi-racial. Also, the top schools have so many highly qualified applicants, it’s not going to be your SAT score that gets you in. You need something else.

    Read More
  61. @keuril
    No, you missed my point. It is now much more meritocratic than it ever was in the 60s. And you have no clue about that, as you’ve shown again.

    Can someone please help this poor soul?

    He seems to be trying to understand in good faith, but he’s exhausted my patience.

    Read More
    • Replies: @keuril
    Failure to debate substantive points: Check
    Ad hominem attack: Check
    Appeal to authority: Check

    “He seems to be trying to understand in good faith, but he’s exhausted my patience.”
    Asking group members to gang up because of your uncompensated emotional labor: Check

    If you think you can actually address my substantive points, by all means do so. Otherwise, go away.

  62. c matt says:
    @J.Ross
    So literally "we must concede without a fight to foreign-supported terrorists who disrupt our city and murder our police -- or else god knows what they'll do next."
    This is why some of us on this side almost wish Hillary had stolen it. The resulting synthesis would be unpleasant but very brief.

    I also mused over the “rip off the bandaid” vs. “death by a thousands cuts” approaches last November.

    Read More
  63. c matt says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Or maybe we just want to do the right thing and not celebrate symbols of racism treason and genocide.

    I hope you guys know the vast majority of people don't support white supremacy

    It is not the fact that the majority of people don’t support white supremacy that concerns me – it’s that the majority of people don’t even support white equality that concerns me.

    Read More
  64. keuril says:
    @Desiderius
    Can someone please help this poor soul?

    He seems to be trying to understand in good faith, but he's exhausted my patience.

    Failure to debate substantive points: Check
    Ad hominem attack: Check
    Appeal to authority: Check

    “He seems to be trying to understand in good faith, but he’s exhausted my patience.”
    Asking group members to gang up because of your uncompensated emotional labor: Check

    If you think you can actually address my substantive points, by all means do so. Otherwise, go away.

    Read More
    • Replies: @keypusher
    I've appreciated your posts on this thread, though I don't know enough to say whether everything you're saying is correct.

    All: incidentally, the graphs posted near the top of this thread come from a NYT article from August 24, which Steve wrote about already. Steve, maybe you can post a link?

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/24/us/affirmative-action.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=photo-spot-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
  65. @keuril
    My comments were made with respect to undergrad only. Despite high sticker prices, the top places are now more economically accessible to a much wider range of students. Harvard regularly claims to be cheaper for most families than their State U. Getting in may be extremely difficult (though not impossible), but if you are accepted, they don’t want cost to be the reason you don’t go. That wasn’t always the case, and is an egalitarian improvement few could take issue with.

    My personal opinion, top schools should eliminate or significantly reduce preferences for legacies and athletes. These preferences limit the number of otherwise qualified white applicants, in particular, and are a significant reason why whites have lower SAT averages than Asians. MIT doesn’t have legacy preferences and they’re doing OK.

    Re: grad school, why would you want to go to grad school? http://100rsns.blogspot.com/p/complete-list-to-date.html

    In general, if your kid gets into HYP or S, they should likely go.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pericles

    In general, if your kid gets into HYP or S, they should likely go.

     

    Quite so. I by far prefer the mnemonic SYPH, however.
    , @keuril
    Indeed. The wealth these schools now have enables very generous financial aid, making them hard to turn down. It does happen, though—schools like Duke have a small number of prestige merit scholarships they use in an effort to keep their strongest admittees from going to HYPS. In addition to a full ride, the scholarships typically provide some sort of special access to professors or research opportunities. In general, though, top schools don’t like to offer merit scholarships because of the potential bad optics of “welfare for the rich.”
    , @Vinteuil
    "In general, if your kid gets into HYP or S, they should likely go."

    Oh, no doubt - if his goal in life is to get power & wealth, to use it to reward his friends, to punish his enemies, and to escape harm himself.

    I.e. - if he aspires to be an *unjust* man - a man with a disordered soul.

    (Sorry - teaching Plato's *Republic* just now - which always gets me in a certain mood).
  66. Pericles says:
    @Steve Sailer
    In general, if your kid gets into HYP or S, they should likely go.

    In general, if your kid gets into HYP or S, they should likely go.

    Quite so. I by far prefer the mnemonic SYPH, however.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ivy
    The newer resistant strains of SYPH have infected SCOTUS and have mutated through media and academia. If only there were some magic bullet or GMO app to use for eradication.
  67. george says:

    Free market wing nut here. From beyond the grave, Adam Smith told me to tell you that you should let the invisible hand decide and rent the plinth to the highest bidder. If the highest bidder wants a statue of Robert E Lee, they get use of the plinth for that purpose. The ADL has the right to match any bid from the 14-88 crowd.

    Since Amazon is said to be looking for a location for it’s second HQ, throw in replacing any and all public art with whatever Bezos wants. Maybe statues of Alan Turning or even Jeff Bezos.

    Read More
  68. Vinteuil says:
    @Desiderius
    This is how the Ivies have rolled back their meritocratic reforms of the 60s. Keep the legacies and rich kids and replace the smart white ethnics and working class whites with clueless foreigners paying full price and talented tenth blacks who of course aren't really talented enough to challenge the connected whites.

    In a similar way they've bought back in loco parentis by calling it Title IX. In either case the goal is to keep daddy's princess unsullied so he'll keep scratching those checks.

    Our bitch-goddess Progress will not be denied, but evidently she can be fooled here and there as long as the regress is disguised by the appropriate SJW bullshit.

    “Keep the legacies and rich kids and replace the smart white ethnics and working class whites with clueless foreigners” – exactly. And the best part is, the continuing preference for legacy & wealthy dolts allows them to claim that smart working class whites are in no position to complain about racial preferences – ’cause (certain other) whites get preferences too!

    It’s really kind of brilliant, when you think about it.

    Read More
  69. keypusher says:
    @eah
    OT

    Ivy League enrollment, 1980 through today. Dramatic demographic change in the span of a generation.

    A couple of student generations -- approx 2x 18 years.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJXeCfuUEAET21z.jpg

    This needs to be compared with the changes in American demographics over the same time period, surely? Even the clueless NYT intern Steve posted about the other day knew that the school-age Hispanic population had increased by something 47% since 2000.

    You can’t just ascribe it all to foreign students and affirmative action (which the Ivies were practicing aggressively by 1980 anyway).

    Read More
  70. keuril says:
    @Steve Sailer
    In general, if your kid gets into HYP or S, they should likely go.

    Indeed. The wealth these schools now have enables very generous financial aid, making them hard to turn down. It does happen, though—schools like Duke have a small number of prestige merit scholarships they use in an effort to keep their strongest admittees from going to HYPS. In addition to a full ride, the scholarships typically provide some sort of special access to professors or research opportunities. In general, though, top schools don’t like to offer merit scholarships because of the potential bad optics of “welfare for the rich.”

    Read More
  71. keypusher says:
    @keuril
    Failure to debate substantive points: Check
    Ad hominem attack: Check
    Appeal to authority: Check

    “He seems to be trying to understand in good faith, but he’s exhausted my patience.”
    Asking group members to gang up because of your uncompensated emotional labor: Check

    If you think you can actually address my substantive points, by all means do so. Otherwise, go away.

    I’ve appreciated your posts on this thread, though I don’t know enough to say whether everything you’re saying is correct.

    All: incidentally, the graphs posted near the top of this thread come from a NYT article from August 24, which Steve wrote about already. Steve, maybe you can post a link?

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/24/us/affirmative-action.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=photo-spot-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

    Read More
  72. Vinteuil says:
    @Steve Sailer
    In general, if your kid gets into HYP or S, they should likely go.

    “In general, if your kid gets into HYP or S, they should likely go.”

    Oh, no doubt – if his goal in life is to get power & wealth, to use it to reward his friends, to punish his enemies, and to escape harm himself.

    I.e. – if he aspires to be an *unjust* man – a man with a disordered soul.

    (Sorry – teaching Plato’s *Republic* just now – which always gets me in a certain mood).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Captain Tripps

    Oh, no doubt – if his goal in life is to get power & wealth, to use it to reward his friends, to punish his enemies, and to escape harm himself.
     
    Yes. This is our modern version of chasing the Cursus honorum in the Ancient Republic as it was falling into absolute autocracy. Most of the "best and brightest" chase their degrees at the SYPH schools in order to be players in the corridors of political power and corporate wealth (but I repeat myself), just as the senatorial class chased their administrative and political positions on the Cursus honorum to have a shot at being one of the two Consuls elected each year.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursus_honorum
  73. @keuril

    In addition to less whites our best universities are now filled with foreigners…about 24% of Harvard undergrads are not US citizens
     
    I don’t know where you got the 24% figure for foreigners, but that’s not correct. In this press release Harvard states that 11.4% of admitted students for the class of 2021 are International.
    https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2017/03/2056-applicants-were-invited-today-to-join-harvard-colleges-class-of-2021/

    And the 11.4% figure is pretty typical—the 2014-15 Common Data Set shows 755 out of 6636 undergrads were international.
    https://oir.harvard.edu/files/huoir/files/harvard_cds_2014-15.pdf

    Not that this other commenter’s numbers are necessarily quite right, but you’re comparing apples and oranges. Many Hispanic students at universities like Harvard who are not classified as International students are also not US citizens, say illegal immigrants, and there are some students from other racial backgrounds who fit in such categories too.

    Harvard specifically has had a lot of buzz about a huge proportion of its black students (but not just International applicants) being non-American born, not part of the US AA community, immigrants and such.

    Read More
    • Replies: @keuril

    Many Hispanic students at universities like Harvard who are not classified as International students are also not US citizens, say illegal immigrants
     
    What is called “International” on the marketing page is called “Non-resident Alien” by the bureaucrats in the Common Data Set that virtually every college fills out. You don’t need to be a citizen to be considered American for college beancounting purposes, but if you don’t have a passport, you need to be an American resident, legally (green card) or otherwise (undocumented). Hispanics who are counted as Americans will be counted in the Hispanic total on the Common Data Set; those who are not counted as Americans will not be counted as Hispanics on the CDS.
  74. @keuril
    In admissions demographics, multi-racial means part-white, part-Asian. This category does not receive any more affirmative action than Asians do. Before its invention, such students would typically be counted as Asian, unless the student, perhaps fearing anti-Asian bias, claimed only white identity (there are online articles about this sort of thing). Counting white-Asians as Asian was advantageous to the school for increasing Diversity, but disadvantageous to full Asians because it created more competition for the Asian quota. So a brand new category was created. They didn’t want to be too blatant about it, by calling it “white-Asian” or something, so they use the vague “multi-racial.” But multi-racial blacks are counted as black, and multi-racial Hispanics are counted as Hispanic, so it is effectively just a white-Asian category. Add up all the categories (white, black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American, mixed race, unknown...) listed in the Common Data Set and you should get 100%. Getting in as multi-racial is just as difficult as it is for whites or Asians.

    No, the multiracial category really does include a large mishmash of groups like Arab Muslims, part Hispanic, part Amerindian individuals, some blacks not from the historic African American community, and others like Pacific Islanders, in addition to Asians who count themselves as multiracial.

    You’re conflating multiple sources where the counts don’t mean the same things. Of the number of students who do well on a calculus test and who are “multiracial,” sure, many would be mixed race Asians. Of the number of students at some university or counted in some other context, it’s not so.

    Asian Americans with high test scores of course have an easier time than white Americans with the same test scores and academic background of getting into elite universities.

    Read More
    • Replies: @keuril

    No, the multiracial category really does include a large mishmash of groups like Arab Muslims, part Hispanic, part Amerindian individuals, some blacks not from the historic African American community, and others like Pacific Islanders, in addition to Asians who count themselves as multiracial.
     
    Uh, no. The categories of Americans for college demographics are quite clear, even if reality is more complicated. These are summarized in the Common Data Set. Every college fills out the same form. Here’s what it says:

    Include international students only in the category "Nonresident aliens." Complete the "Total Undergraduates" column only if you cannot provide data for the first two columns. Report as your institution reports to IPEDS: persons who are Hispanic should be reported only on the Hispanic line, not under any race, and persons who are non-Hispanic multi-racial should be reported only under "Two or more races."
     
    And here are the categories for incoming freshmen in Harvard’s 2014-15 CDS (the most recent):

    Nonresident aliens [“International”]: 187
    Hispanic/Latino: 182
    Black or African American, non-Hispanic: 118
    White, non-Hispanic: 695
    American Indian or Alaska Native, non-Hispanic: 2
    Asian, non-Hispanic: 317
    Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander, non- Hispanic: 0
    Two or more races, non-Hispanic [Multi-racial]: 120
    Race and/or ethnicity unknown: 29
    TOTAL: 1,650
     
    There is no double counting. You cannot go into both the Black category and the Multi-racial category. Even though on average African-Americans have 20% White ancestry, they are not counted as Multi-racial. Notice also that there is no Arab or Middle-Eastern category; they are counted as White. Elizabeth Warren, who may have some White Ancestry, would nevertheless be counted as American Indian.
  75. @Maj. Kong
    While internationals have a great interest in studying in top-tier US institutions, few Americans are interested in studying at the top institutions in Europe, Canada, Hong Kong or Singapore.

    Might be wise for more Americans to learn mandarin and study in Singapore or Hong Kong. Our kids are learning mandarin from a young age and we will definitely not discourage them from going where much of the action and progress is going to be.

    Read More
  76. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @SFG
    And you're not even counting parentheticals.

    WASP males are down in the single digits now.

    Right where they belong, amirite?

    Read More
    • Replies: @keuril
    There will be a lot of WASP males among legacies and athletes, lowering the white SAT average (compared to Asians) and giving the false impression that it is easier for an unhooked white applicant to get in than for an unhooked Asian.
  77. Ivy says:
    @Pericles

    In general, if your kid gets into HYP or S, they should likely go.

     

    Quite so. I by far prefer the mnemonic SYPH, however.

    The newer resistant strains of SYPH have infected SCOTUS and have mutated through media and academia. If only there were some magic bullet or GMO app to use for eradication.

    Read More
  78. @Vinteuil
    "In general, if your kid gets into HYP or S, they should likely go."

    Oh, no doubt - if his goal in life is to get power & wealth, to use it to reward his friends, to punish his enemies, and to escape harm himself.

    I.e. - if he aspires to be an *unjust* man - a man with a disordered soul.

    (Sorry - teaching Plato's *Republic* just now - which always gets me in a certain mood).

    Oh, no doubt – if his goal in life is to get power & wealth, to use it to reward his friends, to punish his enemies, and to escape harm himself.

    Yes. This is our modern version of chasing the Cursus honorum in the Ancient Republic as it was falling into absolute autocracy. Most of the “best and brightest” chase their degrees at the SYPH schools in order to be players in the corridors of political power and corporate wealth (but I repeat myself), just as the senatorial class chased their administrative and political positions on the Cursus honorum to have a shot at being one of the two Consuls elected each year.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursus_honorum

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vinteuil
    "This is our modern version of chasing the Cursus honorum..."

    Precisely so.
  79. keuril says:
    @Krastos the Gluemaker
    Not that this other commenter's numbers are necessarily quite right, but you're comparing apples and oranges. Many Hispanic students at universities like Harvard who are not classified as International students are also not US citizens, say illegal immigrants, and there are some students from other racial backgrounds who fit in such categories too.

    Harvard specifically has had a lot of buzz about a huge proportion of its black students (but not just International applicants) being non-American born, not part of the US AA community, immigrants and such.

    Many Hispanic students at universities like Harvard who are not classified as International students are also not US citizens, say illegal immigrants

    What is called “International” on the marketing page is called “Non-resident Alien” by the bureaucrats in the Common Data Set that virtually every college fills out. You don’t need to be a citizen to be considered American for college beancounting purposes, but if you don’t have a passport, you need to be an American resident, legally (green card) or otherwise (undocumented). Hispanics who are counted as Americans will be counted in the Hispanic total on the Common Data Set; those who are not counted as Americans will not be counted as Hispanics on the CDS.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I doubt many illegal aliens or children of illegal aliens get into Harvard.
  80. keuril says:
    @Krastos the Gluemaker
    No, the multiracial category really does include a large mishmash of groups like Arab Muslims, part Hispanic, part Amerindian individuals, some blacks not from the historic African American community, and others like Pacific Islanders, in addition to Asians who count themselves as multiracial.

    You're conflating multiple sources where the counts don't mean the same things. Of the number of students who do well on a calculus test and who are "multiracial," sure, many would be mixed race Asians. Of the number of students at some university or counted in some other context, it's not so.

    Asian Americans with high test scores of course have an easier time than white Americans with the same test scores and academic background of getting into elite universities.

    No, the multiracial category really does include a large mishmash of groups like Arab Muslims, part Hispanic, part Amerindian individuals, some blacks not from the historic African American community, and others like Pacific Islanders, in addition to Asians who count themselves as multiracial.

    Uh, no. The categories of Americans for college demographics are quite clear, even if reality is more complicated. These are summarized in the Common Data Set. Every college fills out the same form. Here’s what it says:

    Include international students only in the category “Nonresident aliens.” Complete the “Total Undergraduates” column only if you cannot provide data for the first two columns. Report as your institution reports to IPEDS: persons who are Hispanic should be reported only on the Hispanic line, not under any race, and persons who are non-Hispanic multi-racial should be reported only under “Two or more races.”

    And here are the categories for incoming freshmen in Harvard’s 2014-15 CDS (the most recent):

    Nonresident aliens [“International”]: 187
    Hispanic/Latino: 182
    Black or African American, non-Hispanic: 118
    White, non-Hispanic: 695
    American Indian or Alaska Native, non-Hispanic: 2
    Asian, non-Hispanic: 317
    Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander, non- Hispanic: 0
    Two or more races, non-Hispanic [Multi-racial]: 120
    Race and/or ethnicity unknown: 29
    TOTAL: 1,650

    There is no double counting. You cannot go into both the Black category and the Multi-racial category. Even though on average African-Americans have 20% White ancestry, they are not counted as Multi-racial. Notice also that there is no Arab or Middle-Eastern category; they are counted as White. Elizabeth Warren, who may have some White Ancestry, would nevertheless be counted as American Indian.

    Read More
  81. keuril says:
    @Anon
    WASP males are down in the single digits now.

    Right where they belong, amirite?

    There will be a lot of WASP males among legacies and athletes, lowering the white SAT average (compared to Asians) and giving the false impression that it is easier for an unhooked white applicant to get in than for an unhooked Asian.

    Read More
  82. @keuril

    Many Hispanic students at universities like Harvard who are not classified as International students are also not US citizens, say illegal immigrants
     
    What is called “International” on the marketing page is called “Non-resident Alien” by the bureaucrats in the Common Data Set that virtually every college fills out. You don’t need to be a citizen to be considered American for college beancounting purposes, but if you don’t have a passport, you need to be an American resident, legally (green card) or otherwise (undocumented). Hispanics who are counted as Americans will be counted in the Hispanic total on the Common Data Set; those who are not counted as Americans will not be counted as Hispanics on the CDS.

    I doubt many illegal aliens or children of illegal aliens get into Harvard.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Cwhatfuture
    No "illegal aliens" are admitted at all.
    Only "undocumented students" are admitted.

    https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2017/05/4-undocumented-harvard-college-students-recount-their-journeys-and-their-hopes/
    , @keuril
    I don’t know about the numbers, but they have the full support of the University.
    https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2017/05/4-undocumented-harvard-college-students-recount-their-journeys-and-their-hopes/
  83. Vinteuil says:
    @Captain Tripps

    Oh, no doubt – if his goal in life is to get power & wealth, to use it to reward his friends, to punish his enemies, and to escape harm himself.
     
    Yes. This is our modern version of chasing the Cursus honorum in the Ancient Republic as it was falling into absolute autocracy. Most of the "best and brightest" chase their degrees at the SYPH schools in order to be players in the corridors of political power and corporate wealth (but I repeat myself), just as the senatorial class chased their administrative and political positions on the Cursus honorum to have a shot at being one of the two Consuls elected each year.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursus_honorum

    “This is our modern version of chasing the Cursus honorum…”

    Precisely so.

    Read More
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