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  1. Realist says:

    OT:

    Unz is missing a great new writer to present to his readers. Here is another great article by Caitlyn Johnstone

    https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/anyone-promoting-regime-change-in-iran-is-an-evil-piece-of-shit-13563f46f12b

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  2. OT:

    You may like this piece by Samuel Huntington.

    The Threat of White Nativism?

    http://foreignpolicy.com/2009/10/28/the-threat-of-white-nativism/

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  3. J.Ross says: • Website

    Totally reasonable and fitting, as was “CK uses a wheelchair and warmongers so more people will use wheelchairs.”

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  4. El Dato says:

    Top Kek!

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  5. There are quite a few areas where those of us on the left can agree with those of you on the alt-right.

    Hating the neo-con [email protected][email protected] who got us into Iraq is a big one.

    In general, I disagree with the now-cons almost 100% of the time. If a neo-con told me it was sunny I would bring an umbrella.

    Read More
    • Agree: Dan Hayes, julius caesar
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    "Stop spending trillions of dollars on futile ideological boondoggles around the world."

    -The Coalition of the (Proudly) Unwilling.

    , @Paolo Pagliaro
    Well, I would say: thank you Obama for leaving Iraq too early, making a waste of all the suffering and deaths spent to liberate Iraq, not to speak of the general mess in the ME. When an operation like that has begun, it's necessary to go all the way.

    Do you think that Europe, where I live (Italy), was so different when the allies won the WWII? Without allied armies on the ground for decades, we would have faced a civil war first and Soviet occupation later.

    We still have American military bases in our national territory.
    , @Matra
    There are quite a few areas where those of us on the left can agree with those of you on the alt-right.

    Hating the neo-con [email protected][email protected] who got us into Iraq is a big one.

    The Left and neocons are almost always on the same side. Extremely rare for them to disagree. Since attacking Trump George W. Bush has such high ratings among Democrats he could be their candidate in 2020.
    , @Cagey Beast
    .... and the only way to knock Washington out of its neocon/"indispensable nation" groove was a smack between the eyes from Donald Trump's golf club. I never would have believed it myself a few years ago but here we are.
    , @Neuday
    When sunny, a neo-con will tell you it's raining, and offer to sell you an umbrella, on credit.
    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    Back in the day, a lot of politicians would proudly declare that they were “fiscally conservative and socially progressive” like it was the most special unique thing in the world. They were mostly Pubs but there were a few Dems as well. If anything, I consider myself the exact opposite, and I wondered what would be so wrong with a politician being socially conservative and fiscally liberal, and why it seemed zero of them were running on that platform. And then along came Trump, who is by far the closest to what I’ve just described. Granted, he’s been more than a little disappointing on the “fiscally liberal” side, but hey, beggars can’t be choosers.
    , @PhysicistDave
    Paleo Liberal wrote:

    There are quite a few areas where those of us on the left can agree with those of you on the alt-right.
     
    Well.. since the neo-cons and Conservatism, Inc. in general (take Kevin Williamson, please!) along with the globalist neo-liberals all hate and despise ordinary middle-clas/working-class Americans, all the rest of us -- from alt-right to paleo-libertarians to old-fashioned liberals -- are finding a certain common purpose.

    Funny that not hating your fellow citizens is now considered a sign of extremism!
    , @Charles Pewitt
    The Neo-Conservatives are evil shysters who push open borders mass legal immigration and illegal immigration.

    Mass immigration lowers wages, increases income inequality, swamps schools, overwhelms hospitals and harms the environment.

    The Neo-Conservatives and George W Bush dragged the US military into the Iraq War debacle.

    The Neo-Conservatives want to continue to use the US military as muscle in Middle Eastern wars on behalf of Israel.

    The Neo-Conservatives have an eliminationist hatred of the European Christian ancestral core of the United States.

    The Neo-Conservatives are mostly Jews, but some WASP scum such as politician puppets George W Bush and Dick Cheney do their bidding.

    The Neo-Conservatives hate Donald Trump because Trump implicitly sides with the European Christian ancestral core of the United States.

    The Neo-Conservatives push open borders free trade and support all the sovereignty-sapping, job-killing trade deal scams that have harmed the United States.
    , @Nigerian Nationalist
    What if they told you to stay alive?
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  6. TG says:

    In general one should not speak ill of the dead. Unless they deserve it.

    Once in a while The Onion is still funny.

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  7. Dan Hayes says:

    The Perfect Send-Off!

    My only qualm is with the Onion‘s photo since it does not due justice to the destruction wrought by Krauthammer and his neocon partners in war-crimes!

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  8. They can recycle that one when McCain kicks it.

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    • Agree: Corn
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  9. eah says:

    In the minds of Krauthammer et al (other neocon Jews), I don’t think Iraq was ever meant to be the main beneficiary of that war.

    Charles Krauthammer argues in 2003 that the morality of the Iraq War is “unassailable”

    Journal of Military and Veterans’ Health — Trends in traumatic limb amputation in Allied Forces in Iraq and Afghanistan

    By theatre of operations to September 2010, 1,158 US military personnel suffered major or partial limb amputations as a result of the conflict in Iraq, 249 in Afghanistan,…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    They were not wars, otherwise we would have killed lots more Iraqis and Afghans. And stupidity equals morality is not just dishonest; it is evil. Neocons and stupid wars have a correlation coefficient of +1.
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  10. nebulafox says:
    @Paleo Liberal
    There are quite a few areas where those of us on the left can agree with those of you on the alt-right.

    Hating the neo-con [email protected][email protected] who got us into Iraq is a big one.

    In general, I disagree with the now-cons almost 100% of the time. If a neo-con told me it was sunny I would bring an umbrella.

    “Stop spending trillions of dollars on futile ideological boondoggles around the world.”

    -The Coalition of the (Proudly) Unwilling.

    Read More
    • Agree: Paleo Liberal
    • Replies: @Mishra

    “Stop spending trillions of dollars on futile ideological boondoggles around the world.”
     
    What do you mean "futile"?? It made Israel and her partisans very happy at the time.

    http://mondoweiss.net/2012/02/the-iraq-war-coverup-what-did-aipac-do-and-when-did-it-do-it/

    Now that the colossal damage is done--to Iraq, to America--people change their stories.
    , @Stebbing Heuer
    Futile for you.

    Not futile for you-know-who.
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  11. I suppose the real joke is on those who thought that a liberated Iraq was the real neocon goal in the first place, and not the devastation of Israel’s neighbors.

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  12. @Paleo Liberal
    There are quite a few areas where those of us on the left can agree with those of you on the alt-right.

    Hating the neo-con [email protected][email protected] who got us into Iraq is a big one.

    In general, I disagree with the now-cons almost 100% of the time. If a neo-con told me it was sunny I would bring an umbrella.

    Well, I would say: thank you Obama for leaving Iraq too early, making a waste of all the suffering and deaths spent to liberate Iraq, not to speak of the general mess in the ME. When an operation like that has begun, it’s necessary to go all the way.

    Do you think that Europe, where I live (Italy), was so different when the allies won the WWII? Without allied armies on the ground for decades, we would have faced a civil war first and Soviet occupation later.

    We still have American military bases in our national territory.

    Read More
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  13. anon[290] • Disclaimer says:

    De mortuis nil nisi bonumanon

    Never mind.

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  14. Matra says:
    @Paleo Liberal
    There are quite a few areas where those of us on the left can agree with those of you on the alt-right.

    Hating the neo-con [email protected][email protected] who got us into Iraq is a big one.

    In general, I disagree with the now-cons almost 100% of the time. If a neo-con told me it was sunny I would bring an umbrella.

    There are quite a few areas where those of us on the left can agree with those of you on the alt-right.

    Hating the neo-con [email protected][email protected] who got us into Iraq is a big one.

    The Left and neocons are almost always on the same side. Extremely rare for them to disagree. Since attacking Trump George W. Bush has such high ratings among Democrats he could be their candidate in 2020.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MarcB.

    The Left and neocons are almost always on the same side.
     
    That's because they are both creatures of the Left. They only differ for those who buy into a false dialectic.
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  15. Abe says: • Website

    Not holding my breath for an equal time headline about Hillary’s ashes spread over a stable, democratic, non-African black-slave tradin’ Libya.

    Read More
    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    Lil Charlie Krauthammer was gung ho for Libya too. Krauthammer was wrong way more often than he was right.
    , @nebulafox
    *ideological fervour is still

    You take what you can get in life.

    Wonder what Karl Rove is going to get for his obituary... over the Texas-Mexico border to symbolize the Great New GOP Majority, engineered through amnesty + Chamber of Commerce fantasies? Or maybe just over the next RNC. Trump has decided out of sheer laziness to keep McConnellism on life support, but the next GOP insurgent likely won't. Reaganism writ large has no future for the Right.

    , @ziel
    Well she will have actually die first, tbf
    , @Anonymous
    Where her ashes are spread is secondary, even irrelevant. I'll be happy when they are anywhere.
    , @Achmed E. Newman

    Not holding my breath for an equal time headline about Hillary’s ashes spread over ...
     
    ... anywhere besides a superfund site. First of all, you'd better hold your breath and shelter the children, pets, and plant life. Simple chemistry should tell you that any combustion of Hildabeast tissue will result in Sulfur Oxides, and Oxides of Sulfur result in acid rain. Therefore, for anyone who cares one whit about THE PLANET!, it should be obvious that it'll be well worth paying that small bit of extra taxpayer money to have her interred, 6 ft ... nah, 60 ft, hmmm, let's just make sure and make it 600 miles under ... may as well make it down to the mantle, where she came from to begin with.

    "Lots of people talk and few of them know,
    the soul of that woman was created below."


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO2n7QoyieM
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  16. Mishra says:
    @nebulafox
    "Stop spending trillions of dollars on futile ideological boondoggles around the world."

    -The Coalition of the (Proudly) Unwilling.

    “Stop spending trillions of dollars on futile ideological boondoggles around the world.”

    What do you mean “futile”?? It made Israel and her partisans very happy at the time.

    http://mondoweiss.net/2012/02/the-iraq-war-coverup-what-did-aipac-do-and-when-did-it-do-it/

    Now that the colossal damage is done–to Iraq, to America–people change their stories.

    Read More
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  17. rob says:

    Ron,

    I don’t know if you read comments, but comments on ist eve aren’t showing up on my iPad with safari, but they do show up using chrome.

    Ps

    Is Unz pronounced uns or untz?

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  18. @Abe
    Not holding my breath for an equal time headline about Hillary’s ashes spread over a stable, democratic, non-African black-slave tradin’ Libya.

    Lil Charlie Krauthammer was gung ho for Libya too. Krauthammer was wrong way more often than he was right.

    Read More
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  19. syonredux says:

    I remember guys saying that post-War Iraq would be just like post-War II Germany and Japan…..It never seems to have occurred to those fellows that Germany and Japan are populated by Germans and Japanese…..whereas Iraq is not…..

    Read More
    • Replies: @RabbiHighComma
    Given the dual citizen heavy head counts of PNAC, W's cabinet/policy teams, and any neocon org. for that matter, it's unlikely that:

    1. They didn't know that Iraq's complex ethnic makeup required a dictatorial government to maintain a semblance of function and peace

    2. Israel's Oded Yinan plan explicitly calls for the removal of Middle East dictators with their preferred result of a pastiche of warring tribal/ethnic groups as these were viewed as posing the lowest risk to Israel.

    Given the El Al frequent flyer miles racked up by the guilty, I'm going with #2. It was intentional. The nation building phase was merely plausible deniability and MIC gibsmedat.
    , @nebulafox
    As for as Iraq goes, the most apropos comparison for a country we have military history with is not Germany or Japan, but Yugoslavia. There's a creepy parallel in the ethno-religious hatreds, the two being heavily intertwined in these parts of the world, only being kept in check by a greater authority, whether under an explicitly religious empire or a secular dictator.

    The humanitarian ideological rational for intervening was similar. The main difference, other than being far more strategically disasterous and on a much bigger scale, is that after breaking the vase, nobody in the Bush Administration willing to opt for the least worst solution of a balkanization until it was too late. Obama's mind-boggling decision to surge in Afghanistan made things worse, but still, neoconservativege measure to blame for that. If Bosnia today is Upper Hell, Iraq is the City of Dis.

    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    True.
    , @Dr. X

    I remember guys saying that post-War Iraq would be just like post-War II Germany and Japan…..It never seems to have occurred to those fellows that Germany and Japan are populated by Germans and Japanese…..whereas Iraq is not…..
     
    Yeah, but don't forget that back in the 1930s an 1940s the Japanese were fanatical, homicidal, suicidal terrorists who perpetrated the Bataan death March, the Rape of Nanking, banzai charges, and kamikaze attacks, motivated by religious fanaticism for the god-emperor.

    I think that although the racial and ethnic differences between Germans and Japanese and Iraqis are certainly a significant factor, perhaps the fact that we were willing to carpet-bomb Germany into rubble and fire bomb-Tokyo and nuke Japan not once but twice was an equally if not more important factor.

    In Iraq we tried to avoid civilian casualties, refused to desecrate their mosques, and tried to create a "democracy." In Japan and Germany we slaughtered their men (and their women and children) without mercy until the survivors were like beaten dogs licking our hands.

    I'm not saying I like that, but that's how wars are won and how occupied nations are pacified. If we had been willing to lob a tactical nuke into Moqtada al-Sadr's mosque, things might have turned out a bit differently...
    , @istevefan

    I remember guys saying that post-War Iraq would be just like post-War II Germany and Japan….
     
    To add insult to injury those guys who said that and supported the war still have spots on TV shows and sinecures with think tanks. Hell Bolton even just got hired for a nice White House job!

    Meanwhile Buchanan and others, labeled "unpatriotic conservatives" for their opposition 15 years ago, are still on the outside. Our system rewards people for being wrong so long as they toe the line.
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  20. fnn says:

    McCain will get (ideally) a giant mausoleum in Georgia.

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  21. @Paleo Liberal
    There are quite a few areas where those of us on the left can agree with those of you on the alt-right.

    Hating the neo-con [email protected][email protected] who got us into Iraq is a big one.

    In general, I disagree with the now-cons almost 100% of the time. If a neo-con told me it was sunny I would bring an umbrella.

    …. and the only way to knock Washington out of its neocon/”indispensable nation” groove was a smack between the eyes from Donald Trump’s golf club. I never would have believed it myself a few years ago but here we are.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    Did that really work?

    After all, his signature legislative achievement has to get Paul Ryan's tax bill through. Not exactly hitting the neo-cons between the eyes when you give them everything they ask for.
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  22. JimB says:

    I’m surprised any Jew would opt for cremation. Better to be freeze dried and stuck in an artillary shell fired on Hezbollah.

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  23. @syonredux
    I remember guys saying that post-War Iraq would be just like post-War II Germany and Japan.....It never seems to have occurred to those fellows that Germany and Japan are populated by Germans and Japanese.....whereas Iraq is not.....

    Given the dual citizen heavy head counts of PNAC, W’s cabinet/policy teams, and any neocon org. for that matter, it’s unlikely that:

    1. They didn’t know that Iraq’s complex ethnic makeup required a dictatorial government to maintain a semblance of function and peace

    2. Israel’s Oded Yinan plan explicitly calls for the removal of Middle East dictators with their preferred result of a pastiche of warring tribal/ethnic groups as these were viewed as posing the lowest risk to Israel.

    Given the El Al frequent flyer miles racked up by the guilty, I’m going with #2. It was intentional. The nation building phase was merely plausible deniability and MIC gibsmedat.

    Read More
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  24. OT: New Robert Zemeckis film ‘Welcome to Marwen’ prominently features Steve Carrell getting bashed by “a bunch of Nazi thugs”.

    Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6dy7xQ8NeE

    The problem is, it’s based on a real story, and in real life the guy got bashed by a group of men (four white, one black) who attacked him because he was a cross-dresser. There are zero news reports of any kind about his attackers having been neo-Nazis.

    Is this Hollywood appropriating an anti-LGBT hate crime and turning it into an anti-semitic crime (to ostensibly perpetuate their own ethnic animuses and paranoid delusions)? I’d love to see what would happen if someone posited that to some leading leftie ‘thinkers’. The cognitive dissonance would be glorious.

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  25. The Z Blog says: • Website
    Read More
    • Replies: @George Taylor

    OT: Looks like our old friend Max Boot is defending Harvard against the Asians
     
    The old tribe feels like they earned their 25% quota, they don't want to give it up to the new tribe.
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  26. nebulafox says:
    @syonredux
    I remember guys saying that post-War Iraq would be just like post-War II Germany and Japan.....It never seems to have occurred to those fellows that Germany and Japan are populated by Germans and Japanese.....whereas Iraq is not.....

    As for as Iraq goes, the most apropos comparison for a country we have military history with is not Germany or Japan, but Yugoslavia. There’s a creepy parallel in the ethno-religious hatreds, the two being heavily intertwined in these parts of the world, only being kept in check by a greater authority, whether under an explicitly religious empire or a secular dictator.

    The humanitarian ideological rational for intervening was similar. The main difference, other than being far more strategically disasterous and on a much bigger scale, is that after breaking the vase, nobody in the Bush Administration willing to opt for the least worst solution of a balkanization until it was too late. Obama’s mind-boggling decision to surge in Afghanistan made things worse, but still, neoconservativege measure to blame for that. If Bosnia today is Upper Hell, Iraq is the City of Dis.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Yugoslavia broke apart because the Croats and Slovenes feared the Russians more than the Serbs. Once it became clear that Russia was too weak to any longer threaten them, Yugoslavia was finished.
    , @jb
    I distinctly remember reading an article that explicitly asserted that Iraq would most definitely not be like Yugoslavia, because, unlike the Yugoslavs, the Iraqis had a working civil society. Indeed, that once the yoke of Saddam Hussein was lifted from its back, Iraq would have no difficulty joining the family of civilized nations, and would in fact trigger a domino effect of democracy in the region. I didn't know anything about Iraq at the time, so I assumed this was a position that was at least defensible, one that responsible people might hold. I'll bet a lot of equally clueless but far more influential people got swayed by that sort of journalism.
    , @Kratoklastes
    The humanitarian ideological rational for intervening was similar

    You spelt "bogus" wrong - it's not spelt 's-i-m-i-l-a-r'.

    To paraphrase "The Princess Bride" -

    There is never, ever, under any circumstances, a 'humanitarian ideological rationale for intervening', Princess. Anyone who says differently is selling something.
     
    , @Doug
    US intervention into the Balkans occurred *after* the dissolution of the Soviet Union. We didn't instigate regime change, only stepped in after shit got real bad. Iraq in contrast, we took a stable, peaceful country and turned it upside down.
    , @al gore rhythms
    Imagine if one disputed corner of Yugoslavia had had huge quantities of oil though.
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  27. trelane says:

    Charles Krauthammer was a lot like the drug dealer who dipped into his own product.

    Read More
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  28. nebulafox says:
    @Abe
    Not holding my breath for an equal time headline about Hillary’s ashes spread over a stable, democratic, non-African black-slave tradin’ Libya.

    *ideological fervour is still

    You take what you can get in life.

    Wonder what Karl Rove is going to get for his obituary… over the Texas-Mexico border to symbolize the Great New GOP Majority, engineered through amnesty + Chamber of Commerce fantasies? Or maybe just over the next RNC. Trump has decided out of sheer laziness to keep McConnellism on life support, but the next GOP insurgent likely won’t. Reaganism writ large has no future for the Right.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Wonder what Karl Rove is going to get for his obituary
     
    No one, except you and George W. Bush 43, cares.
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  29. Anonymous[170] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox
    As for as Iraq goes, the most apropos comparison for a country we have military history with is not Germany or Japan, but Yugoslavia. There's a creepy parallel in the ethno-religious hatreds, the two being heavily intertwined in these parts of the world, only being kept in check by a greater authority, whether under an explicitly religious empire or a secular dictator.

    The humanitarian ideological rational for intervening was similar. The main difference, other than being far more strategically disasterous and on a much bigger scale, is that after breaking the vase, nobody in the Bush Administration willing to opt for the least worst solution of a balkanization until it was too late. Obama's mind-boggling decision to surge in Afghanistan made things worse, but still, neoconservativege measure to blame for that. If Bosnia today is Upper Hell, Iraq is the City of Dis.

    Yugoslavia broke apart because the Croats and Slovenes feared the Russians more than the Serbs. Once it became clear that Russia was too weak to any longer threaten them, Yugoslavia was finished.

    Read More
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  30. Neuday says:
    @Paleo Liberal
    There are quite a few areas where those of us on the left can agree with those of you on the alt-right.

    Hating the neo-con [email protected][email protected] who got us into Iraq is a big one.

    In general, I disagree with the now-cons almost 100% of the time. If a neo-con told me it was sunny I would bring an umbrella.

    When sunny, a neo-con will tell you it’s raining, and offer to sell you an umbrella, on credit.

    Read More
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  31. donut says:

    I’ll bet the son of a bitch was cruel to animals and small children too .

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  32. ziel says:
    @Abe
    Not holding my breath for an equal time headline about Hillary’s ashes spread over a stable, democratic, non-African black-slave tradin’ Libya.

    Well she will have actually die first, tbf

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kratoklastes

    Well she will have actually die first
     
    I believe our scary, bearded chums say "inshallah" after phrases like that.
    , @roo_ster
    From your lips...
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  33. Anonymous[270] • Disclaimer says:

    Brilliant! Just when I gave up on checking The Onion because it is no longer funny, they seem to have a revival of some sort going on. Either they hired someone exceptionally good or and the current political climate offers too many slam dunk opportunities.

    Read More
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  34. jb says:
    @nebulafox
    As for as Iraq goes, the most apropos comparison for a country we have military history with is not Germany or Japan, but Yugoslavia. There's a creepy parallel in the ethno-religious hatreds, the two being heavily intertwined in these parts of the world, only being kept in check by a greater authority, whether under an explicitly religious empire or a secular dictator.

    The humanitarian ideological rational for intervening was similar. The main difference, other than being far more strategically disasterous and on a much bigger scale, is that after breaking the vase, nobody in the Bush Administration willing to opt for the least worst solution of a balkanization until it was too late. Obama's mind-boggling decision to surge in Afghanistan made things worse, but still, neoconservativege measure to blame for that. If Bosnia today is Upper Hell, Iraq is the City of Dis.

    I distinctly remember reading an article that explicitly asserted that Iraq would most definitely not be like Yugoslavia, because, unlike the Yugoslavs, the Iraqis had a working civil society. Indeed, that once the yoke of Saddam Hussein was lifted from its back, Iraq would have no difficulty joining the family of civilized nations, and would in fact trigger a domino effect of democracy in the region. I didn’t know anything about Iraq at the time, so I assumed this was a position that was at least defensible, one that responsible people might hold. I’ll bet a lot of equally clueless but far more influential people got swayed by that sort of journalism.

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  35. @syonredux
    I remember guys saying that post-War Iraq would be just like post-War II Germany and Japan.....It never seems to have occurred to those fellows that Germany and Japan are populated by Germans and Japanese.....whereas Iraq is not.....

    True.

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  36. @nebulafox
    *ideological fervour is still

    You take what you can get in life.

    Wonder what Karl Rove is going to get for his obituary... over the Texas-Mexico border to symbolize the Great New GOP Majority, engineered through amnesty + Chamber of Commerce fantasies? Or maybe just over the next RNC. Trump has decided out of sheer laziness to keep McConnellism on life support, but the next GOP insurgent likely won't. Reaganism writ large has no future for the Right.

    Wonder what Karl Rove is going to get for his obituary

    No one, except you and George W. Bush 43, cares.

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  37. Dr. X says:
    @syonredux
    I remember guys saying that post-War Iraq would be just like post-War II Germany and Japan.....It never seems to have occurred to those fellows that Germany and Japan are populated by Germans and Japanese.....whereas Iraq is not.....

    I remember guys saying that post-War Iraq would be just like post-War II Germany and Japan…..It never seems to have occurred to those fellows that Germany and Japan are populated by Germans and Japanese…..whereas Iraq is not…..

    Yeah, but don’t forget that back in the 1930s an 1940s the Japanese were fanatical, homicidal, suicidal terrorists who perpetrated the Bataan death March, the Rape of Nanking, banzai charges, and kamikaze attacks, motivated by religious fanaticism for the god-emperor.

    I think that although the racial and ethnic differences between Germans and Japanese and Iraqis are certainly a significant factor, perhaps the fact that we were willing to carpet-bomb Germany into rubble and fire bomb-Tokyo and nuke Japan not once but twice was an equally if not more important factor.

    In Iraq we tried to avoid civilian casualties, refused to desecrate their mosques, and tried to create a “democracy.” In Japan and Germany we slaughtered their men (and their women and children) without mercy until the survivors were like beaten dogs licking our hands.

    I’m not saying I like that, but that’s how wars are won and how occupied nations are pacified. If we had been willing to lob a tactical nuke into Moqtada al-Sadr’s mosque, things might have turned out a bit differently…

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  38. @Paleo Liberal
    There are quite a few areas where those of us on the left can agree with those of you on the alt-right.

    Hating the neo-con [email protected][email protected] who got us into Iraq is a big one.

    In general, I disagree with the now-cons almost 100% of the time. If a neo-con told me it was sunny I would bring an umbrella.

    Back in the day, a lot of politicians would proudly declare that they were “fiscally conservative and socially progressive” like it was the most special unique thing in the world. They were mostly Pubs but there were a few Dems as well. If anything, I consider myself the exact opposite, and I wondered what would be so wrong with a politician being socially conservative and fiscally liberal, and why it seemed zero of them were running on that platform. And then along came Trump, who is by far the closest to what I’ve just described. Granted, he’s been more than a little disappointing on the “fiscally liberal” side, but hey, beggars can’t be choosers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    what would be so wrong with a politician being socially conservative and fiscally liberal
     
    That's a very long way of spelling "Dixiecrat".
    , @njguy73

    Back in the day, a lot of politicians would proudly declare that they were “fiscally conservative and socially progressive” like it was the most special unique thing in the world.
     
    And here's Mark Steyn from 2012:

    As almost all those fashionable split-the-difference fiscally conservative/socially liberal governors from George Pataki to California's pathetically terminated Terminator eventually discover, their social liberalism comes with a hell of a price tag. Ask the Greeks how easy it is for insolvent nations to wean the populace off unaffordable nanny-state lollipops: When even casual sex requires a state welfare program, you're pretty much done for.
     
    http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0312/steyn031212.php3#.WzBvcadKjIU
    , @Tyrion 2

    I wondered what would be so wrong with a politician being socially conservative and fiscally liberal
     
    American's political terminology is so confused, and therefore confusing.

    What is the political position that you're meaning to describe? If it is the opposite of what you defined it as opposed to, then you must mean that said politicians would be for more laws governing social behaviour and for higher taxes and government spending.

    We might broadly label it "statist" or perhaps "authoritarian".

    The next issue is what character will that state have?

    It might use its laws to ban interracial marriage but it might also use its laws to ban non-interracial marriage.

    It might be illegal to bake a cake for a gay wedding or it might be illegal not to bake a caje for a gay wedding.

    It might ban Islam or it might ban Christianity.

    Nor are these absolute dichotomies as it might do anything with its expanded power.

    My guess is that you're trying to describe a Christian Socialist or Christian Social Democrat. The latter being a less tax and spendy version of the former.

    The "Christian" denotes the character of the state while the rest advertises that it takes an interventionist role in people's lives.

    A contemporary alternative would be a better set of labels for those in the American Democrat party. Where you have Socialists and Social-Democrats but the character desired for the expanded state runs from Radical (as in break society down to its atoms), Post-Modern (nihilism and feelings), Feminist (remarkably similar to Post-Modern), Anti-Racist/Third-Worldist (white people are evil), black or Hispanic (old-fashioned racial interest) or Progressive (a confused agglomeration of all of the above, often with a little (upper) class interest sneaked in).

    And then there's foreign policy....

    Essentially the Republicans you were talking about were labelling themselves classical liberal or libertarian and using the axes of the political compass to dismiss their opponents by labelling them authoritian i.e Stalin plus Hitler.
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  39. Anonsgt says:

    The iSteve crowd skews older, but I positively assure you that Krauthammer is singlely loathed by vets of my cohort. We know people, often our dearest friends, who are dead now because of him.
    The amount OIF/OEF vets suppport Trump is misunderstood as “political” or “sociological”. It’s not. It’s wrath, pure and simple. The Neo-Cons killed our friends and he’s the only one we’ve seen say this out loud.
    I’d follow him anywhere

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    I admit he doesn't get nearly enough credit for calling Dubya's deliberate disasters out as a candidate, but as president he's fallen right into line, saber-rattling at Iran and bombing Syria while one-on-one chickenhawk John Bolton and other malicious "national security" officials look on approvingly.
    , @AndrewR
    Omg. New phone and the autocorrect is maddening. I typed "über-neocon" but this stupid phone switched it to one-on-one automatically.
    , @Peter Akuleyev
    The Neo-Cons killed our friends and he’s the only one we’ve seen say this out loud.
    I’d follow him anywhere


    That makes no sense to me. Trump doesn't really believe deeply in any ideology, he is about getting a better deal for himself and beating his enemies. Sometimes that works in America's favor, like immigration, other times it leads to chaos, like healthcare, sometimes negative, as the tariffs are likely to turn out. Trump has said a few nasty things about neocons, but he still seems to be following their program in Afghanistan and Iraq. He is still cozying up to the Saudis and Israel, and just gave the neocons a huge gift by reinstating sanctions on Iran. Give Trump credit where its due, maybe, but why follow him blindly?
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  40. istevefan says:
    @syonredux
    I remember guys saying that post-War Iraq would be just like post-War II Germany and Japan.....It never seems to have occurred to those fellows that Germany and Japan are populated by Germans and Japanese.....whereas Iraq is not.....

    I remember guys saying that post-War Iraq would be just like post-War II Germany and Japan….

    To add insult to injury those guys who said that and supported the war still have spots on TV shows and sinecures with think tanks. Hell Bolton even just got hired for a nice White House job!

    Meanwhile Buchanan and others, labeled “unpatriotic conservatives” for their opposition 15 years ago, are still on the outside. Our system rewards people for being wrong so long as they toe the line.

    Read More
    • Agree: Mishra
    • Replies: @Kratoklastes

    Our system rewards people for being wrong so long as they toe the line.
     
    You're getting warmer - you've identified that "toe the line" is a better predictor of continued success than "being right".

    Now make the final link: "toe the line" is actually what they're being paid for.

    So they're doing their jobs - it's just that a lot of folks don't realise what the actual job of a 'pundit' is.

    As I've said before (in a long-winded, laboured fashion): their job is not to be right. Rightness or wrongness is in no way relevant to their prospects.

    If by some mysterious historical anomaly, the stuff that the political class needs pundits to say happened to be right for once, that would not enter into anybody's calculus.

    , @Jimi
    I was watching a BBC program where a British politician was yammering about getting tough on Russia. The host Andrew Neil asked him "You were wrong on Iraq and wrong on Libya. How do we know you're not wrong this time also?"

    Can you imagine any American news host asking a pundit a similar question?
    , @Mishra
    Agree completely, and the hiring of Bolton was a dark day indeed.

    However, meanwhile, the NYT tonight reports (breathless as usual):


    In an aggressive attack, President Trump said that those who cross into the U.S. illegally should be sent back immediately without due process or an appearance before a judge.

    “We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country,” he said on Twitter, in another twist in an already head-spinning series of developments on immigration.
     

    See? All we really need to do is to figure out how to give Trump's tweets the force of law. Then we'd really be having fun ;)
    , @bored identity
    ...and Ouchier :


    bored identity invites y'all to check it out how the certain online voice of Torah Jewry was totally triggered by the certain Rodeo Clown, some two years before he moved the certain Circus Tent to the certain Location, Location, Location:



    http://matzav.com/trump-teases-charles-krauthammer-for-being-paralyzed/

    TUR: I want to talk about some -- what some of the Republicans have been saying about you just this week. You`ve been very divisive for the party.
    You have Charles Krauthammer who`s called you a rodeo clown.

    TRUMP: Well, Charles Krauthammer is a totally overrated person,who really dislikes personally. I never met him.I mean, he is a totally overrated guy, doesn`t know what he`s doing. He was in favor of the war in Iraq. He wanted to go into Iraq and he wanted to stay there forever.So, you know, these are overrated people. I see who it is. You can mention name after name....


    (...)

    .....And then I get called by a guy that can`t buy a pair of pants, I get called names.

    Give me a break."




    'https://youtu.be/H-DSfvYCKwY?t=10m31s

     

    , @bored identity
    Although,unlike the late Cabbagemallet, bored identity ain't a waterboarding-survivor-and-Harward-trained-psychiatrist-who-joined-the-Carter's-administration-as-a-director-of-psychiatric-research-only-to-become-later-Mondale's-speechwriter, his rule of paraplegic thumb is quite simple:

    '"NEVER ALLOW AN ADULT WITH A CONSTANT NEED OF A DIAPER CHANGE TO VOTE WITH HIS TWO ERECTED THUMBS UP FOR ANYTHING THAT INVOLVES OTHER PEOPLE'S MATTERS OF LIFE AND DEATH."
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  41. @nebulafox
    As for as Iraq goes, the most apropos comparison for a country we have military history with is not Germany or Japan, but Yugoslavia. There's a creepy parallel in the ethno-religious hatreds, the two being heavily intertwined in these parts of the world, only being kept in check by a greater authority, whether under an explicitly religious empire or a secular dictator.

    The humanitarian ideological rational for intervening was similar. The main difference, other than being far more strategically disasterous and on a much bigger scale, is that after breaking the vase, nobody in the Bush Administration willing to opt for the least worst solution of a balkanization until it was too late. Obama's mind-boggling decision to surge in Afghanistan made things worse, but still, neoconservativege measure to blame for that. If Bosnia today is Upper Hell, Iraq is the City of Dis.

    The humanitarian ideological rational for intervening was similar

    You spelt “bogus” wrong – it’s not spelt ‘s-i-m-i-l-a-r’.

    To paraphrase “The Princess Bride” -

    There is never, ever, under any circumstances, a ‘humanitarian ideological rationale for intervening’, Princess. Anyone who says differently is selling something.

    Read More
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    Well, a big reason I am not a liberal, in the genuine, authentic, non-SJW sense of the word: I advocate an unapologetically dictator-coddling approach to foreign policy that would make liberals pee their pants. But invading countries because "democracy"-or most other reasons-is proudly not on the agenda. If I believed in an afterlife, I'd probably say I'd go to hell, but I'll at least have some interesting strategic conversations with other realists down there. :)

    See, I've got no problem with killing loads of foreigners. But I demand that something concretely in the interests of the United States be accomplished by doing so, since to kill a bunch of foreigners breeds this strange thing called *resentment*, a negative that demands something pretty big to offset it. Somebody about to invade us? Sure. Some dictator being mean to feminists? Eh... no, not so much, especially if he has nukes.

    And no, unlike the modern GOP, I don't count military contractors getting paid as a vital national security interest. If anything, they are more of the parasites on our modern economy that is really why we face such deeply entrenched problems in American society. Yes, flooding the market with immigration, yes, crappy free trade deals, yes, greedy and reckless plutocrats, yes, a bizarrely inept yet expensive healthcare system, yes, a Ponzi scheme higher education system that is more concern with the appearance of learning than actual learning, yes, institutionalized corruption, yes, a general skewing of interests to one or two social classes over others rather than mechanisms working for the collective good. None of that is healthy for society in general. But in the end, that's the main thing. We've got more productivity than any point in previously recorded history, yet less efficiency. Why is that? And we'd better figure out a good answer to this quick, before automation makes most people unemployable.

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  42. @istevefan

    I remember guys saying that post-War Iraq would be just like post-War II Germany and Japan….
     
    To add insult to injury those guys who said that and supported the war still have spots on TV shows and sinecures with think tanks. Hell Bolton even just got hired for a nice White House job!

    Meanwhile Buchanan and others, labeled "unpatriotic conservatives" for their opposition 15 years ago, are still on the outside. Our system rewards people for being wrong so long as they toe the line.

    Our system rewards people for being wrong so long as they toe the line.

    You’re getting warmer – you’ve identified that “toe the line” is a better predictor of continued success than “being right”.

    Now make the final link: “toe the line” is actually what they’re being paid for.

    So they’re doing their jobs – it’s just that a lot of folks don’t realise what the actual job of a ‘pundit’ is.

    As I’ve said before (in a long-winded, laboured fashion): their job is not to be right. Rightness or wrongness is in no way relevant to their prospects.

    If by some mysterious historical anomaly, the stuff that the political class needs pundits to say happened to be right for once, that would not enter into anybody’s calculus.

    Read More
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  43. @Paleo Liberal
    There are quite a few areas where those of us on the left can agree with those of you on the alt-right.

    Hating the neo-con [email protected][email protected] who got us into Iraq is a big one.

    In general, I disagree with the now-cons almost 100% of the time. If a neo-con told me it was sunny I would bring an umbrella.

    Paleo Liberal wrote:

    There are quite a few areas where those of us on the left can agree with those of you on the alt-right.

    Well.. since the neo-cons and Conservatism, Inc. in general (take Kevin Williamson, please!) along with the globalist neo-liberals all hate and despise ordinary middle-clas/working-class Americans, all the rest of us — from alt-right to paleo-libertarians to old-fashioned liberals — are finding a certain common purpose.

    Funny that not hating your fellow citizens is now considered a sign of extremism!

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    • Replies: @SimplePseudonymicHandle

    Funny that not hating your fellow citizens is now considered a sign of extremism!
     
    That's been a weird one.
    I wonder often why we don't hear more people making a big deal out of it.
    , @istevefan

    Well.. since the neo-cons and Conservatism, Inc. in general (take Kevin Williamson, please!) along with the globalist neo-liberals all hate and despise ordinary middle-clas/working-class Americans, all the rest of us — from alt-right to paleo-libertarians to old-fashioned liberals — are finding a certain common purpose.
     
    There is really no reason why the neocons should hate ordinary whites. Judging by these two old quotes from two of the godfathers of neoconservatism, it appears neocons primarily want a strong US military and an engaged America who butts its nose into world affairs.

    From Irving Kristol in 1973:

    Senator McGovern is very sincere when he says that he will try to cut the military budget by 30%. And this is to drive a knife in the heart of Israel… Jews don’t like big military budgets. But it is now an interest of the Jews to have a large and powerful military establishment in the United States…American Jews who care about the survival of the state of Israel have to say, no, we don’t want to cut the military budget, it is important to keep that military budget big, so that we can defend Israel.
     
    From Norman Podhoretz in 1979:

    There was, to be sure, one thing that many of even the most passionately committed American Zionists were reluctant to do, and that was to face up to the fact that continued American support for Israel depended upon continued American involvement in international affairs– from which it followed that an American withdrawal into the kind of isolationist mood that prevailed most recently between the two world wars, and that now looked as though it might soon prevail again, represented a direct threat to the security of Israel.

     

    No one in America supports a larger military budget than Trump and his supporters. Trump supporters also seem to join the military in disproportionate numbers. One might argue that Trump promoted a somewhat less-interventionist foreign policy, but so far he has not acted like Pat Buchanan on this issue. Besides most GOP-voting whites are pro-Israel. Just look at how excited they got over the embassy move to Jerusalem.

    So based upon the original concerns of neocons it makes little sense for them to hate ordinary whites so much. Other segments of society aren't nearly as supportive of their goals.
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  44. Anon[128] • Disclaimer says:

    I was watching a documentary on Eric Clapton last night, and I went to check something on Wikipedia. It included some “rivers of blood” stuff not mentioned in the documentary:

    Political views

    Clapton is a supporter of the Countryside Alliance which promotes issues relating to the British countryside. He has played in concerts to raise funds for the organisation and publicly opposed the Labour Party’s ban on fox hunting with the 2004 Hunting Act. A spokesperson for Clapton said, “Eric supports the Countryside Alliance. He doesn’t hunt himself, but does enjoy rural pursuits such as fishing and shooting. He supports the Alliance’s pursuit to scrap the ban on the basis that he doesn’t agree with the state’s interference with people’s private pursuits”.

    Controversy over remarks on immigration

    On 5 August 1976, Clapton provoked an uproar and lingering controversy when he spoke out against increasing immigration during a concert in Birmingham. Visibly intoxicated, Clapton voiced his support of controversial political candidate Enoch Powell, and announced on stage that Britain was in danger of becoming a “black colony”. Among other things, Clapton said “Keep Britain white!” which was at the time a National Front (NF) slogan. This incident, along with some controversial remarks made around the same time by David Bowie, as well as uses of Nazi-related imagery by Sid Vicious and Siouxsie Sioux, were the main catalysts for the creation of Rock Against Racism, with a concert on 30 April 1978.

    In an interview from October 1976 with Sounds magazine, Clapton said that he was not a political person and that his rambling remarks that night were not appropriate. However, in a 2004 interview with Uncut, Clapton referred to Powell as “outrageously brave”. He complained that the UK was “… inviting people in as cheap labour and then putting them in ghettos”. In 2004, Clapton told an interviewer for Scotland on Sunday, “There’s no way I could be a racist. It would make no sense”. In his 2007 autobiography, Clapton called himself “deliberately oblivious to it all” and wrote, “I had never really understood or been directly affected by racial conflict … when I listened to music, I was disinterested in where the players came from or what colour their skin was. Interesting, then, that 10 years later, I would be labelled a racist.” In a December 2007 interview with Melvyn Bragg on The South Bank Show, Clapton reiterated his support for Enoch Powell and again denied that Powell’s views were racist.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Fox lynching is evil as is bull-fighting. And killing pigs is so wrong.
    , @roo_ster
    Good for Clapton.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    The Beatles~ No Pakistanis
    the orginal Get Back

    ...Don't dig no Pakistanis taking all the people's jobs
    ...Oh ne nu ne nu was a Puerto Rican born in na na na na na

     

    , @Buzz Mohawk
    That is very impressive, especially since a music star of his generation is not one you would expect to have such opinions. There must be a lot of like-minded people everywhere. What if we are actually the clear (but unpublicized) majority and the nonsense has been a scam made to look much larger than it really is?
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  45. @ziel
    Well she will have actually die first, tbf

    Well she will have actually die first

    I believe our scary, bearded chums say “inshallah” after phrases like that.

    Read More
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  46. Jimi says:
    @istevefan

    I remember guys saying that post-War Iraq would be just like post-War II Germany and Japan….
     
    To add insult to injury those guys who said that and supported the war still have spots on TV shows and sinecures with think tanks. Hell Bolton even just got hired for a nice White House job!

    Meanwhile Buchanan and others, labeled "unpatriotic conservatives" for their opposition 15 years ago, are still on the outside. Our system rewards people for being wrong so long as they toe the line.

    I was watching a BBC program where a British politician was yammering about getting tough on Russia. The host Andrew Neil asked him “You were wrong on Iraq and wrong on Libya. How do we know you’re not wrong this time also?”

    Can you imagine any American news host asking a pundit a similar question?

    Read More
    • Replies: @black sea

    Can you imagine any American news host asking a pundit a similar question?
     
    Tucker Carlson
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  47. @PhysicistDave
    Paleo Liberal wrote:

    There are quite a few areas where those of us on the left can agree with those of you on the alt-right.
     
    Well.. since the neo-cons and Conservatism, Inc. in general (take Kevin Williamson, please!) along with the globalist neo-liberals all hate and despise ordinary middle-clas/working-class Americans, all the rest of us -- from alt-right to paleo-libertarians to old-fashioned liberals -- are finding a certain common purpose.

    Funny that not hating your fellow citizens is now considered a sign of extremism!

    Funny that not hating your fellow citizens is now considered a sign of extremism!

    That’s been a weird one.
    I wonder often why we don’t hear more people making a big deal out of it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    I wonder often why we don’t hear more people making a big deal out of it.
     
    Swift, severe retribution for those who do?
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  48. Michelle says:

    The Onion writers are brilliant. Why don’t we put them in charge?

    Read More
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    It's run by SJW idiots/cowards who refuse to make even the mildest joke at Obama's expense, instead deflecting ridicule of Obama onto the supposed multitude of "evil white racists" who supposedly always hated Obama based solely on his ancestry.

    https://www.theonion.com/the-american-presidency-1819594247/amp

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  49. Anon[395] • Disclaimer says:

    Off topic:

    Not yet but soon

    The apple trees were heavy with fruit, and the rows and rows of tomatoes, squash, and hot peppers were ripe for picking. But in the end, Gary and Patty Bartley, prizewinning farmers in western Michigan, had to leave $200,000 to $300,000 worth of their crops to rot in their fields last year.
    They couldn’t find enough people to pick everything.
    That was not for lack of trying. They had urged their domestic migrant workers to return, but only 12 did – about a third of the crew size they needed. The Bartleys placed ads in papers out of state and advertised all season with the Michigan state workforce development agency. Not a single person applied.

    The challenge is that H-2As make a significant dent in farmers’ profits. The program costs $1,600 to $1,800 per worker in fees, plus the grower must provide free housing, linens, equipped kitchens, and regular transportation to buy groceries and other supplies.

    https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2018/0622/US-farmers-desperate-for-help-increasingly-turn-to-Mexico

    Far more notable than the vineyard’s fruit, however, is how it gets farmed.
    “There are no hand practices out here,” said Kurtural. “Everything is done by machine.”
    From spraying to pruning to canopy management, all the way through harvest, the vineyard is essentially “no-touch.” The processes can all be carried out with the same machine, its frame fitted with different heads depending on the work needed.
    As Kurtural walked through the rows, the vines were being watered by an irrigation system directed by sensors in the vineyard.
    In all, he said, the cost to manage the vineyard comes to about 7 cents a vine.
    “This is as cheap as it gets I think.”

    https://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/with-vineyard-labor-scarce-napa-growers-warm-up-to-machines/article_19f7f5c5-995f-5f21-ba6c-66af1fe6ce11.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    I will bet that newsrooms have a Microsoft Word template for these stories. Just fill in the name of the farmer, the location, the type of fruit, and Voila! you have your current Crops Rotting in the Fields story ready to go. Extra columns inches for blaming DJT.

    Screw these people. It's great that lettuce is $1 a head, but I would gladly pay triple that if we could get rid of 20 million illegals and all their social costs.

    , @Bill B.
    I've noted here before that when I worked on farms in France in the 1970s some farms used machines to pick grapes. They worked well as far as I could see; but it took time to replant/retrain vines to shapes suitable for machines.

    Only a couple of farms I was the only seasonal labourer.

    In the 70s...
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  50. njguy73 says:

    take Kevin Williamson, please!

    His ashes will be spread over whatever towns people moved to after they packed their U-hauls and left those failed, negative-value towns.

    Read More
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  51. @Hapalong Cassidy
    Back in the day, a lot of politicians would proudly declare that they were “fiscally conservative and socially progressive” like it was the most special unique thing in the world. They were mostly Pubs but there were a few Dems as well. If anything, I consider myself the exact opposite, and I wondered what would be so wrong with a politician being socially conservative and fiscally liberal, and why it seemed zero of them were running on that platform. And then along came Trump, who is by far the closest to what I’ve just described. Granted, he’s been more than a little disappointing on the “fiscally liberal” side, but hey, beggars can’t be choosers.

    what would be so wrong with a politician being socially conservative and fiscally liberal

    That’s a very long way of spelling “Dixiecrat”.

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  52. Anon[395] • Disclaimer says:

    Contd:

    http://www.keyt.com/news/santa-maria-north-county/deportations-cause-labor-shortage-in-santa-maria-ag-fields-1/758152835

    Some farm workers earn up to $95 a day for a nine hour shift. But besides the low pay, they talk about other risks like dehydration, getting bit by an insect, or getting sprayed by a pesticide.

    “Last year a Santa Ynez woman died of dehydration,” explained Cabrera.

    Surprised to see this level of honesty. Almost as if large amounts of cheap, pliable labor leads to exploitation. California farmers are headed down the path of their South African brethren.

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  53. njguy73 says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy
    Back in the day, a lot of politicians would proudly declare that they were “fiscally conservative and socially progressive” like it was the most special unique thing in the world. They were mostly Pubs but there were a few Dems as well. If anything, I consider myself the exact opposite, and I wondered what would be so wrong with a politician being socially conservative and fiscally liberal, and why it seemed zero of them were running on that platform. And then along came Trump, who is by far the closest to what I’ve just described. Granted, he’s been more than a little disappointing on the “fiscally liberal” side, but hey, beggars can’t be choosers.

    Back in the day, a lot of politicians would proudly declare that they were “fiscally conservative and socially progressive” like it was the most special unique thing in the world.

    And here’s Mark Steyn from 2012:

    As almost all those fashionable split-the-difference fiscally conservative/socially liberal governors from George Pataki to California’s pathetically terminated Terminator eventually discover, their social liberalism comes with a hell of a price tag. Ask the Greeks how easy it is for insolvent nations to wean the populace off unaffordable nanny-state lollipops: When even casual sex requires a state welfare program, you’re pretty much done for.

    http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0312/steyn031212.php3#.WzBvcadKjIU

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  54. …Over Prosperous, Liberated Iraq

    And which Los Angeles neighborhood might that be?

    Between the Iranians and the Armenians?

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    • Replies: @nebulafox
    You know, it's so ironic that Trump decided on a ban from Iran when Iranian immigrants generally cause few, if any, problems wherever they go. Iranian-Americans are heavily represented in hardcore science and technology thanks to the scientific diaspora raising their children here after 1979.

    There isn't much in the way of Shi'a militant attacks against the West in general, either, like you see with the radical Sunni types. Assassination attempts against figures the Iranian government doesn't happen to like, sure, but come on, now. We've tolerated car bombings from a friendly regime against their former foreign minister to the US in downtown DC.

    Afghanistan didn't make the list, though, despite the fact that they don't always send their Best... same story with Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. Not always: I've personally known some very pleasant-and intelligent-guys from all three. But enough that should make you raise an eyebrow as to why Iran got banned and they didn't. Somehow, I think the neocons manage to negatively influence everything, even the nationalist impulses Trump has. It's like a Reverse Midas touch: everything they touch turns to what you see in Dante's 2nd Malabolge.

    OK... for the umpteenth time, I need to get out of here. I really do. Who knows, maybe I'll regret all this 10 years from now. Or not. We'll see if I become more human.

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  55. black sea says:
    @Jimi
    I was watching a BBC program where a British politician was yammering about getting tough on Russia. The host Andrew Neil asked him "You were wrong on Iraq and wrong on Libya. How do we know you're not wrong this time also?"

    Can you imagine any American news host asking a pundit a similar question?

    Can you imagine any American news host asking a pundit a similar question?

    Tucker Carlson

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    • Agree: Jim Christian, NickG
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    black sea:

    Unfortunately it will only be a matter of time before our modern-day savonarolas go after Tucker Carlson!
    , @Mr. Anon

    Tucker Carlson
     
    Indeed, he asked just that question of Max Boot, among others.
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  56. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Abe
    Not holding my breath for an equal time headline about Hillary’s ashes spread over a stable, democratic, non-African black-slave tradin’ Libya.

    Where her ashes are spread is secondary, even irrelevant. I’ll be happy when they are anywhere.

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  57. Dan Hayes says:
    @black sea

    Can you imagine any American news host asking a pundit a similar question?
     
    Tucker Carlson

    black sea:

    Unfortunately it will only be a matter of time before our modern-day savonarolas go after Tucker Carlson!

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  58. istevefan says:
    @PhysicistDave
    Paleo Liberal wrote:

    There are quite a few areas where those of us on the left can agree with those of you on the alt-right.
     
    Well.. since the neo-cons and Conservatism, Inc. in general (take Kevin Williamson, please!) along with the globalist neo-liberals all hate and despise ordinary middle-clas/working-class Americans, all the rest of us -- from alt-right to paleo-libertarians to old-fashioned liberals -- are finding a certain common purpose.

    Funny that not hating your fellow citizens is now considered a sign of extremism!

    Well.. since the neo-cons and Conservatism, Inc. in general (take Kevin Williamson, please!) along with the globalist neo-liberals all hate and despise ordinary middle-clas/working-class Americans, all the rest of us — from alt-right to paleo-libertarians to old-fashioned liberals — are finding a certain common purpose.

    There is really no reason why the neocons should hate ordinary whites. Judging by these two old quotes from two of the godfathers of neoconservatism, it appears neocons primarily want a strong US military and an engaged America who butts its nose into world affairs.

    From Irving Kristol in 1973:

    Senator McGovern is very sincere when he says that he will try to cut the military budget by 30%. And this is to drive a knife in the heart of Israel… Jews don’t like big military budgets. But it is now an interest of the Jews to have a large and powerful military establishment in the United States…American Jews who care about the survival of the state of Israel have to say, no, we don’t want to cut the military budget, it is important to keep that military budget big, so that we can defend Israel.

    From Norman Podhoretz in 1979:

    There was, to be sure, one thing that many of even the most passionately committed American Zionists were reluctant to do, and that was to face up to the fact that continued American support for Israel depended upon continued American involvement in international affairs– from which it followed that an American withdrawal into the kind of isolationist mood that prevailed most recently between the two world wars, and that now looked as though it might soon prevail again, represented a direct threat to the security of Israel.

    No one in America supports a larger military budget than Trump and his supporters. Trump supporters also seem to join the military in disproportionate numbers. One might argue that Trump promoted a somewhat less-interventionist foreign policy, but so far he has not acted like Pat Buchanan on this issue. Besides most GOP-voting whites are pro-Israel. Just look at how excited they got over the embassy move to Jerusalem.

    So based upon the original concerns of neocons it makes little sense for them to hate ordinary whites so much. Other segments of society aren’t nearly as supportive of their goals.

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    • LOL: AndrewR
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Why shouldn't they have contempt for ordinary whites? Ordinary whites are philosemitic fools who will never reciprocate the blatant ethnic animus directed at them. There's nothing worth respecting or pretending to respect.
    , @Mr. Anon

    There is really no reason why the neocons should hate ordinary whites.
     
    Maybe there are reasons about which they don't write op-ed pieces.
    , @PhysicistDave
    istevefan wrote to me:

    There is really no reason why the neocons should hate ordinary whites. Judging by these two old quotes from two of the godfathers of neoconservatism, it appears neocons primarily want a strong US military and an engaged America who butts its nose into world affairs.
     
    The usual pattern of American history is that the American people "rallied 'round the flag" when the federal government involved us in a foreign war, but, more often than not, the populace showed little spirit for war until it was a fait accompli.

    And, indeed the permanent state of war which has been sustained since 1940 (yes, I know that was before the attack on Pearl) was decided upon by the elites, not by ordinary people.

    Podhoretz, Kristol, and the little neo-cons of today all are smart enough to know this. Their central goals are not the central goals of the American people. Most Americans prefer peace.

    And, so, they hate and fear the American people.

    Sic semper tyrannis.
    , @roo_ster
    "There is really no reason why the neocons should hate ordinary whites. "

    Reason's got nothing to do with it. Animus toward Christians of European descent is more than enough.
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  59. @nebulafox
    "Stop spending trillions of dollars on futile ideological boondoggles around the world."

    -The Coalition of the (Proudly) Unwilling.

    Futile for you.

    Not futile for you-know-who.

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  60. AndrewR says:
    @Anonsgt
    The iSteve crowd skews older, but I positively assure you that Krauthammer is singlely loathed by vets of my cohort. We know people, often our dearest friends, who are dead now because of him.
    The amount OIF/OEF vets suppport Trump is misunderstood as “political” or “sociological”. It’s not. It’s wrath, pure and simple. The Neo-Cons killed our friends and he’s the only one we’ve seen say this out loud.
    I’d follow him anywhere

    I admit he doesn’t get nearly enough credit for calling Dubya’s deliberate disasters out as a candidate, but as president he’s fallen right into line, saber-rattling at Iran and bombing Syria while one-on-one chickenhawk John Bolton and other malicious “national security” officials look on approvingly.

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  61. AndrewR says:
    @istevefan

    Well.. since the neo-cons and Conservatism, Inc. in general (take Kevin Williamson, please!) along with the globalist neo-liberals all hate and despise ordinary middle-clas/working-class Americans, all the rest of us — from alt-right to paleo-libertarians to old-fashioned liberals — are finding a certain common purpose.
     
    There is really no reason why the neocons should hate ordinary whites. Judging by these two old quotes from two of the godfathers of neoconservatism, it appears neocons primarily want a strong US military and an engaged America who butts its nose into world affairs.

    From Irving Kristol in 1973:

    Senator McGovern is very sincere when he says that he will try to cut the military budget by 30%. And this is to drive a knife in the heart of Israel… Jews don’t like big military budgets. But it is now an interest of the Jews to have a large and powerful military establishment in the United States…American Jews who care about the survival of the state of Israel have to say, no, we don’t want to cut the military budget, it is important to keep that military budget big, so that we can defend Israel.
     
    From Norman Podhoretz in 1979:

    There was, to be sure, one thing that many of even the most passionately committed American Zionists were reluctant to do, and that was to face up to the fact that continued American support for Israel depended upon continued American involvement in international affairs– from which it followed that an American withdrawal into the kind of isolationist mood that prevailed most recently between the two world wars, and that now looked as though it might soon prevail again, represented a direct threat to the security of Israel.

     

    No one in America supports a larger military budget than Trump and his supporters. Trump supporters also seem to join the military in disproportionate numbers. One might argue that Trump promoted a somewhat less-interventionist foreign policy, but so far he has not acted like Pat Buchanan on this issue. Besides most GOP-voting whites are pro-Israel. Just look at how excited they got over the embassy move to Jerusalem.

    So based upon the original concerns of neocons it makes little sense for them to hate ordinary whites so much. Other segments of society aren't nearly as supportive of their goals.

    Why shouldn’t they have contempt for ordinary whites? Ordinary whites are philosemitic fools who will never reciprocate the blatant ethnic animus directed at them. There’s nothing worth respecting or pretending to respect.

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    • Agree: L Woods
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  62. AndrewR says:
    @Anonsgt
    The iSteve crowd skews older, but I positively assure you that Krauthammer is singlely loathed by vets of my cohort. We know people, often our dearest friends, who are dead now because of him.
    The amount OIF/OEF vets suppport Trump is misunderstood as “political” or “sociological”. It’s not. It’s wrath, pure and simple. The Neo-Cons killed our friends and he’s the only one we’ve seen say this out loud.
    I’d follow him anywhere

    Omg. New phone and the autocorrect is maddening. I typed “über-neocon” but this stupid phone switched it to one-on-one automatically.

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  63. AndrewR says:
    @Michelle
    The Onion writers are brilliant. Why don't we put them in charge?

    It’s run by SJW idiots/cowards who refuse to make even the mildest joke at Obama’s expense, instead deflecting ridicule of Obama onto the supposed multitude of “evil white racists” who supposedly always hated Obama based solely on his ancestry.

    https://www.theonion.com/the-american-presidency-1819594247/amp

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  64. Mishra says:
    @istevefan

    I remember guys saying that post-War Iraq would be just like post-War II Germany and Japan….
     
    To add insult to injury those guys who said that and supported the war still have spots on TV shows and sinecures with think tanks. Hell Bolton even just got hired for a nice White House job!

    Meanwhile Buchanan and others, labeled "unpatriotic conservatives" for their opposition 15 years ago, are still on the outside. Our system rewards people for being wrong so long as they toe the line.

    Agree completely, and the hiring of Bolton was a dark day indeed.

    However, meanwhile, the NYT tonight reports (breathless as usual):

    In an aggressive attack, President Trump said that those who cross into the U.S. illegally should be sent back immediately without due process or an appearance before a judge.

    “We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country,” he said on Twitter, in another twist in an already head-spinning series of developments on immigration.

    See? All we really need to do is to figure out how to give Trump’s tweets the force of law. Then we’d really be having fun ;)

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  65. Mr. Anon says:
    @istevefan

    Well.. since the neo-cons and Conservatism, Inc. in general (take Kevin Williamson, please!) along with the globalist neo-liberals all hate and despise ordinary middle-clas/working-class Americans, all the rest of us — from alt-right to paleo-libertarians to old-fashioned liberals — are finding a certain common purpose.
     
    There is really no reason why the neocons should hate ordinary whites. Judging by these two old quotes from two of the godfathers of neoconservatism, it appears neocons primarily want a strong US military and an engaged America who butts its nose into world affairs.

    From Irving Kristol in 1973:

    Senator McGovern is very sincere when he says that he will try to cut the military budget by 30%. And this is to drive a knife in the heart of Israel… Jews don’t like big military budgets. But it is now an interest of the Jews to have a large and powerful military establishment in the United States…American Jews who care about the survival of the state of Israel have to say, no, we don’t want to cut the military budget, it is important to keep that military budget big, so that we can defend Israel.
     
    From Norman Podhoretz in 1979:

    There was, to be sure, one thing that many of even the most passionately committed American Zionists were reluctant to do, and that was to face up to the fact that continued American support for Israel depended upon continued American involvement in international affairs– from which it followed that an American withdrawal into the kind of isolationist mood that prevailed most recently between the two world wars, and that now looked as though it might soon prevail again, represented a direct threat to the security of Israel.

     

    No one in America supports a larger military budget than Trump and his supporters. Trump supporters also seem to join the military in disproportionate numbers. One might argue that Trump promoted a somewhat less-interventionist foreign policy, but so far he has not acted like Pat Buchanan on this issue. Besides most GOP-voting whites are pro-Israel. Just look at how excited they got over the embassy move to Jerusalem.

    So based upon the original concerns of neocons it makes little sense for them to hate ordinary whites so much. Other segments of society aren't nearly as supportive of their goals.

    There is really no reason why the neocons should hate ordinary whites.

    Maybe there are reasons about which they don’t write op-ed pieces.

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  66. Mr. Anon says:
    @black sea

    Can you imagine any American news host asking a pundit a similar question?
     
    Tucker Carlson

    Tucker Carlson

    Indeed, he asked just that question of Max Boot, among others.

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  67. @istevefan

    I remember guys saying that post-War Iraq would be just like post-War II Germany and Japan….
     
    To add insult to injury those guys who said that and supported the war still have spots on TV shows and sinecures with think tanks. Hell Bolton even just got hired for a nice White House job!

    Meanwhile Buchanan and others, labeled "unpatriotic conservatives" for their opposition 15 years ago, are still on the outside. Our system rewards people for being wrong so long as they toe the line.

    …and Ouchier :

    bored identity invites y’all to check it out how the certain online voice of Torah Jewry was totally triggered by the certain Rodeo Clown, some two years before he moved the certain Circus Tent to the certain Location, Location, Location:

    http://matzav.com/trump-teases-charles-krauthammer-for-being-paralyzed/

    TUR: I want to talk about some — what some of the Republicans have been saying about you just this week. You`ve been very divisive for the party.
    You have Charles Krauthammer who`s called you a rodeo clown.

    TRUMP: Well, Charles Krauthammer is a totally overrated person,who really dislikes personally. I never met him.I mean, he is a totally overrated guy, doesn`t know what he`s doing. He was in favor of the war in Iraq. He wanted to go into Iraq and he wanted to stay there forever.So, you know, these are overrated people. I see who it is. You can mention name after name….

    (…)

    …..And then I get called by a guy that can`t buy a pair of pants, I get called names.

    Give me a break.”

    https://youtu.be/H-DSfvYCKwY?t=10m31s

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  68. @istevefan

    I remember guys saying that post-War Iraq would be just like post-War II Germany and Japan….
     
    To add insult to injury those guys who said that and supported the war still have spots on TV shows and sinecures with think tanks. Hell Bolton even just got hired for a nice White House job!

    Meanwhile Buchanan and others, labeled "unpatriotic conservatives" for their opposition 15 years ago, are still on the outside. Our system rewards people for being wrong so long as they toe the line.

    Although,unlike the late Cabbagemallet, bored identity ain’t a waterboarding-survivor-and-Harward-trained-psychiatrist-who-joined-the-Carter’s-administration-as-a-director-of-psychiatric-research-only-to-become-later-Mondale’s-speechwriter, his rule of paraplegic thumb is quite simple:

    ‘”NEVER ALLOW AN ADULT WITH A CONSTANT NEED OF A DIAPER CHANGE TO VOTE WITH HIS TWO ERECTED THUMBS UP FOR ANYTHING THAT INVOLVES OTHER PEOPLE’S MATTERS OF LIFE AND DEATH.”

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  69. Doug says:
    @nebulafox
    As for as Iraq goes, the most apropos comparison for a country we have military history with is not Germany or Japan, but Yugoslavia. There's a creepy parallel in the ethno-religious hatreds, the two being heavily intertwined in these parts of the world, only being kept in check by a greater authority, whether under an explicitly religious empire or a secular dictator.

    The humanitarian ideological rational for intervening was similar. The main difference, other than being far more strategically disasterous and on a much bigger scale, is that after breaking the vase, nobody in the Bush Administration willing to opt for the least worst solution of a balkanization until it was too late. Obama's mind-boggling decision to surge in Afghanistan made things worse, but still, neoconservativege measure to blame for that. If Bosnia today is Upper Hell, Iraq is the City of Dis.

    US intervention into the Balkans occurred *after* the dissolution of the Soviet Union. We didn’t instigate regime change, only stepped in after shit got real bad. Iraq in contrast, we took a stable, peaceful country and turned it upside down.

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    • Replies: @nebulafox
    Yes, I said it was a far greater strategic disaster for a reason. Iraq will probably rank far higher than Vietnam on the negative impact in America's strategic standing in the world, if less in the body count.

    But the fundamental underlying similarity of intervening in a multiethnic country, profoundly divided by ancient hatreds which we knew little about, on the basis of humanitarian motives is the same. (The Iraq Liberation Act also shows the underlying mentality of idealistic democracy spreading that became normative in DC toward the end of the century. You wonder if Vietnam Syndrome going away was a good thing.) It reflects a profound mindset change in our ruling elites after the Cold War ended. How much of it was due to the Baby Boomers taking power and how much of it was hubris in the wake of the USSR's fall is up to the interpreter.


    (As is the cobbled-together nature of the two states. Though the Hapsburg Empire was obviously a very different from the Ottoman caliphate-European and Catholic vs. Middle Eastern and Sunni Muslim-and Tito was a lot less brutal than Saddam, both countries fit it OK with the previous framework and when independent needed an iron hand like the latter to stay together. The reason the Communists tried to insist that everybody loved each other in Yugoslavia-which everybody knew wasn't true-was because of the pent-up hatreds that were released during the German occupation: especially when the Germans decided to ally with some nationalities against others in an ethnic melee they barely understood, either.)

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  70. Tyrion 2 says: • Website
    @Hapalong Cassidy
    Back in the day, a lot of politicians would proudly declare that they were “fiscally conservative and socially progressive” like it was the most special unique thing in the world. They were mostly Pubs but there were a few Dems as well. If anything, I consider myself the exact opposite, and I wondered what would be so wrong with a politician being socially conservative and fiscally liberal, and why it seemed zero of them were running on that platform. And then along came Trump, who is by far the closest to what I’ve just described. Granted, he’s been more than a little disappointing on the “fiscally liberal” side, but hey, beggars can’t be choosers.

    I wondered what would be so wrong with a politician being socially conservative and fiscally liberal

    American’s political terminology is so confused, and therefore confusing.

    What is the political position that you’re meaning to describe? If it is the opposite of what you defined it as opposed to, then you must mean that said politicians would be for more laws governing social behaviour and for higher taxes and government spending.

    We might broadly label it “statist” or perhaps “authoritarian”.

    The next issue is what character will that state have?

    It might use its laws to ban interracial marriage but it might also use its laws to ban non-interracial marriage.

    It might be illegal to bake a cake for a gay wedding or it might be illegal not to bake a caje for a gay wedding.

    It might ban Islam or it might ban Christianity.

    Nor are these absolute dichotomies as it might do anything with its expanded power.

    My guess is that you’re trying to describe a Christian Socialist or Christian Social Democrat. The latter being a less tax and spendy version of the former.

    The “Christian” denotes the character of the state while the rest advertises that it takes an interventionist role in people’s lives.

    A contemporary alternative would be a better set of labels for those in the American Democrat party. Where you have Socialists and Social-Democrats but the character desired for the expanded state runs from Radical (as in break society down to its atoms), Post-Modern (nihilism and feelings), Feminist (remarkably similar to Post-Modern), Anti-Racist/Third-Worldist (white people are evil), black or Hispanic (old-fashioned racial interest) or Progressive (a confused agglomeration of all of the above, often with a little (upper) class interest sneaked in).

    And then there’s foreign policy….

    Essentially the Republicans you were talking about were labelling themselves classical liberal or libertarian and using the axes of the political compass to dismiss their opponents by labelling them authoritian i.e Stalin plus Hitler.

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  71. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    I was watching a documentary on Eric Clapton last night, and I went to check something on Wikipedia. It included some "rivers of blood" stuff not mentioned in the documentary:

    Political views

    Clapton is a supporter of the Countryside Alliance which promotes issues relating to the British countryside. He has played in concerts to raise funds for the organisation and publicly opposed the Labour Party's ban on fox hunting with the 2004 Hunting Act. A spokesperson for Clapton said, "Eric supports the Countryside Alliance. He doesn't hunt himself, but does enjoy rural pursuits such as fishing and shooting. He supports the Alliance's pursuit to scrap the ban on the basis that he doesn't agree with the state's interference with people's private pursuits".

    Controversy over remarks on immigration

    On 5 August 1976, Clapton provoked an uproar and lingering controversy when he spoke out against increasing immigration during a concert in Birmingham. Visibly intoxicated, Clapton voiced his support of controversial political candidate Enoch Powell, and announced on stage that Britain was in danger of becoming a "black colony". Among other things, Clapton said "Keep Britain white!" which was at the time a National Front (NF) slogan. This incident, along with some controversial remarks made around the same time by David Bowie, as well as uses of Nazi-related imagery by Sid Vicious and Siouxsie Sioux, were the main catalysts for the creation of Rock Against Racism, with a concert on 30 April 1978.

    In an interview from October 1976 with Sounds magazine, Clapton said that he was not a political person and that his rambling remarks that night were not appropriate. However, in a 2004 interview with Uncut, Clapton referred to Powell as "outrageously brave". He complained that the UK was "... inviting people in as cheap labour and then putting them in ghettos". In 2004, Clapton told an interviewer for Scotland on Sunday, "There's no way I could be a racist. It would make no sense". In his 2007 autobiography, Clapton called himself "deliberately oblivious to it all" and wrote, "I had never really understood or been directly affected by racial conflict ... when I listened to music, I was disinterested in where the players came from or what colour their skin was. Interesting, then, that 10 years later, I would be labelled a racist." In a December 2007 interview with Melvyn Bragg on The South Bank Show, Clapton reiterated his support for Enoch Powell and again denied that Powell's views were racist.
     

    Fox lynching is evil as is bull-fighting. And killing pigs is so wrong.

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  72. @Anonsgt
    The iSteve crowd skews older, but I positively assure you that Krauthammer is singlely loathed by vets of my cohort. We know people, often our dearest friends, who are dead now because of him.
    The amount OIF/OEF vets suppport Trump is misunderstood as “political” or “sociological”. It’s not. It’s wrath, pure and simple. The Neo-Cons killed our friends and he’s the only one we’ve seen say this out loud.
    I’d follow him anywhere

    The Neo-Cons killed our friends and he’s the only one we’ve seen say this out loud.
    I’d follow him anywhere

    That makes no sense to me. Trump doesn’t really believe deeply in any ideology, he is about getting a better deal for himself and beating his enemies. Sometimes that works in America’s favor, like immigration, other times it leads to chaos, like healthcare, sometimes negative, as the tariffs are likely to turn out. Trump has said a few nasty things about neocons, but he still seems to be following their program in Afghanistan and Iraq. He is still cozying up to the Saudis and Israel, and just gave the neocons a huge gift by reinstating sanctions on Iran. Give Trump credit where its due, maybe, but why follow him blindly?

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    • Replies: @Precious
    Sometimes that works in America’s favor, like immigration, other times it leads to chaos, like healthcare,

    Sickness care in the USA has been in chaos long before Trump. Obama was shoveling money from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac into Obamacare in a desperate shell game to keep it afloat.

    Trump has said a few nasty things about neocons, but he still seems to be following their program in Afghanistan and Iraq. He is still cozying up to the Saudis and Israel, and just gave the neocons a huge gift by reinstating sanctions on Iran.

    Maybe he looked at his knock-down drag out fight with the FBI, CIA and the DoJ and realized he didn't need the Pentagon, Saudis and Mossad all piling in against him as well.
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  73. @istevefan

    Well.. since the neo-cons and Conservatism, Inc. in general (take Kevin Williamson, please!) along with the globalist neo-liberals all hate and despise ordinary middle-clas/working-class Americans, all the rest of us — from alt-right to paleo-libertarians to old-fashioned liberals — are finding a certain common purpose.
     
    There is really no reason why the neocons should hate ordinary whites. Judging by these two old quotes from two of the godfathers of neoconservatism, it appears neocons primarily want a strong US military and an engaged America who butts its nose into world affairs.

    From Irving Kristol in 1973:

    Senator McGovern is very sincere when he says that he will try to cut the military budget by 30%. And this is to drive a knife in the heart of Israel… Jews don’t like big military budgets. But it is now an interest of the Jews to have a large and powerful military establishment in the United States…American Jews who care about the survival of the state of Israel have to say, no, we don’t want to cut the military budget, it is important to keep that military budget big, so that we can defend Israel.
     
    From Norman Podhoretz in 1979:

    There was, to be sure, one thing that many of even the most passionately committed American Zionists were reluctant to do, and that was to face up to the fact that continued American support for Israel depended upon continued American involvement in international affairs– from which it followed that an American withdrawal into the kind of isolationist mood that prevailed most recently between the two world wars, and that now looked as though it might soon prevail again, represented a direct threat to the security of Israel.

     

    No one in America supports a larger military budget than Trump and his supporters. Trump supporters also seem to join the military in disproportionate numbers. One might argue that Trump promoted a somewhat less-interventionist foreign policy, but so far he has not acted like Pat Buchanan on this issue. Besides most GOP-voting whites are pro-Israel. Just look at how excited they got over the embassy move to Jerusalem.

    So based upon the original concerns of neocons it makes little sense for them to hate ordinary whites so much. Other segments of society aren't nearly as supportive of their goals.

    istevefan wrote to me:

    There is really no reason why the neocons should hate ordinary whites. Judging by these two old quotes from two of the godfathers of neoconservatism, it appears neocons primarily want a strong US military and an engaged America who butts its nose into world affairs.

    The usual pattern of American history is that the American people “rallied ’round the flag” when the federal government involved us in a foreign war, but, more often than not, the populace showed little spirit for war until it was a fait accompli.

    And, indeed the permanent state of war which has been sustained since 1940 (yes, I know that was before the attack on Pearl) was decided upon by the elites, not by ordinary people.

    Podhoretz, Kristol, and the little neo-cons of today all are smart enough to know this. Their central goals are not the central goals of the American people. Most Americans prefer peace.

    And, so, they hate and fear the American people.

    Sic semper tyrannis.

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  74. nebulafox says:
    @Doug
    US intervention into the Balkans occurred *after* the dissolution of the Soviet Union. We didn't instigate regime change, only stepped in after shit got real bad. Iraq in contrast, we took a stable, peaceful country and turned it upside down.

    Yes, I said it was a far greater strategic disaster for a reason. Iraq will probably rank far higher than Vietnam on the negative impact in America’s strategic standing in the world, if less in the body count.

    But the fundamental underlying similarity of intervening in a multiethnic country, profoundly divided by ancient hatreds which we knew little about, on the basis of humanitarian motives is the same. (The Iraq Liberation Act also shows the underlying mentality of idealistic democracy spreading that became normative in DC toward the end of the century. You wonder if Vietnam Syndrome going away was a good thing.) It reflects a profound mindset change in our ruling elites after the Cold War ended. How much of it was due to the Baby Boomers taking power and how much of it was hubris in the wake of the USSR’s fall is up to the interpreter.

    (As is the cobbled-together nature of the two states. Though the Hapsburg Empire was obviously a very different from the Ottoman caliphate-European and Catholic vs. Middle Eastern and Sunni Muslim-and Tito was a lot less brutal than Saddam, both countries fit it OK with the previous framework and when independent needed an iron hand like the latter to stay together. The reason the Communists tried to insist that everybody loved each other in Yugoslavia-which everybody knew wasn’t true-was because of the pent-up hatreds that were released during the German occupation: especially when the Germans decided to ally with some nationalities against others in an ethnic melee they barely understood, either.)

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  75. nebulafox says:
    @Kratoklastes
    The humanitarian ideological rational for intervening was similar

    You spelt "bogus" wrong - it's not spelt 's-i-m-i-l-a-r'.

    To paraphrase "The Princess Bride" -

    There is never, ever, under any circumstances, a 'humanitarian ideological rationale for intervening', Princess. Anyone who says differently is selling something.
     

    Well, a big reason I am not a liberal, in the genuine, authentic, non-SJW sense of the word: I advocate an unapologetically dictator-coddling approach to foreign policy that would make liberals pee their pants. But invading countries because “democracy”-or most other reasons-is proudly not on the agenda. If I believed in an afterlife, I’d probably say I’d go to hell, but I’ll at least have some interesting strategic conversations with other realists down there. :)

    See, I’ve got no problem with killing loads of foreigners. But I demand that something concretely in the interests of the United States be accomplished by doing so, since to kill a bunch of foreigners breeds this strange thing called *resentment*, a negative that demands something pretty big to offset it. Somebody about to invade us? Sure. Some dictator being mean to feminists? Eh… no, not so much, especially if he has nukes.

    And no, unlike the modern GOP, I don’t count military contractors getting paid as a vital national security interest. If anything, they are more of the parasites on our modern economy that is really why we face such deeply entrenched problems in American society. Yes, flooding the market with immigration, yes, crappy free trade deals, yes, greedy and reckless plutocrats, yes, a bizarrely inept yet expensive healthcare system, yes, a Ponzi scheme higher education system that is more concern with the appearance of learning than actual learning, yes, institutionalized corruption, yes, a general skewing of interests to one or two social classes over others rather than mechanisms working for the collective good. None of that is healthy for society in general. But in the end, that’s the main thing. We’ve got more productivity than any point in previously recorded history, yet less efficiency. Why is that? And we’d better figure out a good answer to this quick, before automation makes most people unemployable.

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  76. nebulafox says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    ...Over Prosperous, Liberated Iraq
     
    And which Los Angeles neighborhood might that be?

    Between the Iranians and the Armenians?

    You know, it’s so ironic that Trump decided on a ban from Iran when Iranian immigrants generally cause few, if any, problems wherever they go. Iranian-Americans are heavily represented in hardcore science and technology thanks to the scientific diaspora raising their children here after 1979.

    There isn’t much in the way of Shi’a militant attacks against the West in general, either, like you see with the radical Sunni types. Assassination attempts against figures the Iranian government doesn’t happen to like, sure, but come on, now. We’ve tolerated car bombings from a friendly regime against their former foreign minister to the US in downtown DC.

    Afghanistan didn’t make the list, though, despite the fact that they don’t always send their Best… same story with Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. Not always: I’ve personally known some very pleasant-and intelligent-guys from all three. But enough that should make you raise an eyebrow as to why Iran got banned and they didn’t. Somehow, I think the neocons manage to negatively influence everything, even the nationalist impulses Trump has. It’s like a Reverse Midas touch: everything they touch turns to what you see in Dante’s 2nd Malabolge.

    OK… for the umpteenth time, I need to get out of here. I really do. Who knows, maybe I’ll regret all this 10 years from now. Or not. We’ll see if I become more human.

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    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    You know, it’s so ironic that Trump decided on a ban from Iran when Iranian immigrants generally cause few, if any, problems wherever they go. Iranian-Americans are heavily represented in hardcore science and technology thanks to the scientific diaspora raising their children here after 1979.
     
    You make a very good point.

    Your whole comment is good, except for this very last part:


    OK… for the umpteenth time, I need to get out of here. I really do. Who knows, maybe I’ll regret all this 10 years from now. Or not. We’ll see if I become more human.
     
    You don't need to get out of here. It won't make any difference. The NSA already has everything we've posted, linked to our IP addresses and cross-referenced with terabytes of personal data. We can share stories together in person when they lock us all up in a camp somewhere.
    , @PhysicistDave
    nebulafox wrote:

    You know, it’s so ironic that Trump decided on a ban from Iran when Iranian immigrants generally cause few, if any, problems wherever they go. Iranian-Americans are heavily represented in hardcore science and technology thanks to the scientific diaspora raising their children here after 1979.
     
    Yeah, that has also been my personal experience: the Iranian-Americans I've known were perhaps slightly saner than the average native-born Americans I have known.
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  77. And we’d better figure out a good answer to this quick, before automation makes most people unemployable.

    Done and done. We’re there now. What, 80 million people out of the workforce that aren’t counted? Thrown away, useless, they’re broken down factory equipment same as the slaves became useless farm equipment when mechanical harvesters came about.

    Next to go are the EEOC positions that put millions of women into cubicles. Analysts, communications, various file clerks and make-work, all can go away with the simplest of AI. Most of business management can be run with AI and no meetings needed. In another 5 years, ten maybe, most of our business classes will be out of work. Mark Cuban claims his offices will be empty in a couple of years, all functions performed by his beloved AI.

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  78. @nebulafox
    You know, it's so ironic that Trump decided on a ban from Iran when Iranian immigrants generally cause few, if any, problems wherever they go. Iranian-Americans are heavily represented in hardcore science and technology thanks to the scientific diaspora raising their children here after 1979.

    There isn't much in the way of Shi'a militant attacks against the West in general, either, like you see with the radical Sunni types. Assassination attempts against figures the Iranian government doesn't happen to like, sure, but come on, now. We've tolerated car bombings from a friendly regime against their former foreign minister to the US in downtown DC.

    Afghanistan didn't make the list, though, despite the fact that they don't always send their Best... same story with Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. Not always: I've personally known some very pleasant-and intelligent-guys from all three. But enough that should make you raise an eyebrow as to why Iran got banned and they didn't. Somehow, I think the neocons manage to negatively influence everything, even the nationalist impulses Trump has. It's like a Reverse Midas touch: everything they touch turns to what you see in Dante's 2nd Malabolge.

    OK... for the umpteenth time, I need to get out of here. I really do. Who knows, maybe I'll regret all this 10 years from now. Or not. We'll see if I become more human.

    You know, it’s so ironic that Trump decided on a ban from Iran when Iranian immigrants generally cause few, if any, problems wherever they go. Iranian-Americans are heavily represented in hardcore science and technology thanks to the scientific diaspora raising their children here after 1979.

    You make a very good point.

    Your whole comment is good, except for this very last part:

    OK… for the umpteenth time, I need to get out of here. I really do. Who knows, maybe I’ll regret all this 10 years from now. Or not. We’ll see if I become more human.

    You don’t need to get out of here. It won’t make any difference. The NSA already has everything we’ve posted, linked to our IP addresses and cross-referenced with terabytes of personal data. We can share stories together in person when they lock us all up in a camp somewhere.

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    • Replies: @nebulafox
    I'm not worried about that. Just starting out at this juncture, I can't afford to be thinking about too much other than the next day, anyway. In the future, if history calls me in an era of chaos, I'm sure some obsessive somewhere will figure out who "nebulafox" really was, and I'll deal with the fallout from that then. If it doesn't, and I end up living the sort of stable, respectable, upstanding bourgeois life that I didn't think was possible for myself until recently, then there's nothing to worry about given the amount of noise that'll be out there.

    No, I need to get out of here because I've got a massive e-addiction that needs dealing with first and foremost, and this website is the first thing that needs to be cut out. Electronic devices are messing with our neural connections in ways I'm not sure humans are quite evolved to handle yet. It's quite fascinating.

    Peace.

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  79. Charles Krauthammer Was A TREASONOUS Neo-Con Rat Who Pushed Mass Immigration.

    Mentally Deranged Mass Immigration Extremist Charles Krauthammer Was An Anti-Europeanite Neo-Con Rodent. Neo-Cons Out Of GOP!

    Neo-Con Shyster Charles Krauthammer Was An Anti-Europeanite Scumbag Of The Worst Sort.

    Krauthammer = Mass Immigration

    Krauthammer Is No Longer; But His Evil Remains

    Tweets From 2015:

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  80. @Paleo Liberal
    There are quite a few areas where those of us on the left can agree with those of you on the alt-right.

    Hating the neo-con [email protected][email protected] who got us into Iraq is a big one.

    In general, I disagree with the now-cons almost 100% of the time. If a neo-con told me it was sunny I would bring an umbrella.

    The Neo-Conservatives are evil shysters who push open borders mass legal immigration and illegal immigration.

    Mass immigration lowers wages, increases income inequality, swamps schools, overwhelms hospitals and harms the environment.

    The Neo-Conservatives and George W Bush dragged the US military into the Iraq War debacle.

    The Neo-Conservatives want to continue to use the US military as muscle in Middle Eastern wars on behalf of Israel.

    The Neo-Conservatives have an eliminationist hatred of the European Christian ancestral core of the United States.

    The Neo-Conservatives are mostly Jews, but some WASP scum such as politician puppets George W Bush and Dick Cheney do their bidding.

    The Neo-Conservatives hate Donald Trump because Trump implicitly sides with the European Christian ancestral core of the United States.

    The Neo-Conservatives push open borders free trade and support all the sovereignty-sapping, job-killing trade deal scams that have harmed the United States.

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    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    There was a time when the left agreed with what is now the alt-right on most of these issues.

    Money has always corrupted politics. I grew up in Arkansas, and I remember when Bill Clinton and Hillary Rodham were wild-eyed reformers. That lasted until 1980, when Clinton lost for re-election. Certain people came to Bill and Hillary and they made some deals with them:

    Bill would very publicly sing in a church choir for a church service that was on local TV.
    Hillary would take Bill's last name.
    Bill and Hillary would never, ever again in their lives go against the wishes of Wal-Mart or Tysons or JB Hunt or any of the other large companies in Arkansas.
    Bill would work for the corporate interests, and if there is any time left over, he could work for his pet liberal causes.
    They would fund Bill to the max.

    Bill took the deal, and never again lost another election.


    If you go back even further, there was even a time when Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos were reformers.

    That is politics today. If you want to get elected, you go with the powers-that-be. If not, they destroy you.

    Trump's bargain involved tax cuts for the rich, and putting in a neo-con approved justice on the Supreme Court.
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  81. @Anon
    Off topic:

    Not yet but soon

    The apple trees were heavy with fruit, and the rows and rows of tomatoes, squash, and hot peppers were ripe for picking. But in the end, Gary and Patty Bartley, prizewinning farmers in western Michigan, had to leave $200,000 to $300,000 worth of their crops to rot in their fields last year.
    They couldn’t find enough people to pick everything.
    That was not for lack of trying. They had urged their domestic migrant workers to return, but only 12 did – about a third of the crew size they needed. The Bartleys placed ads in papers out of state and advertised all season with the Michigan state workforce development agency. Not a single person applied.

    The challenge is that H-2As make a significant dent in farmers’ profits. The program costs $1,600 to $1,800 per worker in fees, plus the grower must provide free housing, linens, equipped kitchens, and regular transportation to buy groceries and other supplies.
     
    https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2018/0622/US-farmers-desperate-for-help-increasingly-turn-to-Mexico

    Far more notable than the vineyard’s fruit, however, is how it gets farmed.
    “There are no hand practices out here,” said Kurtural. “Everything is done by machine.”
    From spraying to pruning to canopy management, all the way through harvest, the vineyard is essentially “no-touch.” The processes can all be carried out with the same machine, its frame fitted with different heads depending on the work needed.
    As Kurtural walked through the rows, the vines were being watered by an irrigation system directed by sensors in the vineyard.
    In all, he said, the cost to manage the vineyard comes to about 7 cents a vine.
    “This is as cheap as it gets I think.”

     

    https://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/with-vineyard-labor-scarce-napa-growers-warm-up-to-machines/article_19f7f5c5-995f-5f21-ba6c-66af1fe6ce11.html

    I will bet that newsrooms have a Microsoft Word template for these stories. Just fill in the name of the farmer, the location, the type of fruit, and Voila! you have your current Crops Rotting in the Fields story ready to go. Extra columns inches for blaming DJT.

    Screw these people. It’s great that lettuce is $1 a head, but I would gladly pay triple that if we could get rid of 20 million illegals and all their social costs.

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  82. roo_ster says:
    @ziel
    Well she will have actually die first, tbf

    From your lips…

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  83. @Paleo Liberal
    There are quite a few areas where those of us on the left can agree with those of you on the alt-right.

    Hating the neo-con [email protected][email protected] who got us into Iraq is a big one.

    In general, I disagree with the now-cons almost 100% of the time. If a neo-con told me it was sunny I would bring an umbrella.

    What if they told you to stay alive?

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    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    It would mean they want to stick me, and the rest of the middle class, with the bill.
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  84. res says:
    @SimplePseudonymicHandle

    Funny that not hating your fellow citizens is now considered a sign of extremism!
     
    That's been a weird one.
    I wonder often why we don't hear more people making a big deal out of it.

    I wonder often why we don’t hear more people making a big deal out of it.

    Swift, severe retribution for those who do?

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  85. roo_ster says:
    @Anon
    I was watching a documentary on Eric Clapton last night, and I went to check something on Wikipedia. It included some "rivers of blood" stuff not mentioned in the documentary:

    Political views

    Clapton is a supporter of the Countryside Alliance which promotes issues relating to the British countryside. He has played in concerts to raise funds for the organisation and publicly opposed the Labour Party's ban on fox hunting with the 2004 Hunting Act. A spokesperson for Clapton said, "Eric supports the Countryside Alliance. He doesn't hunt himself, but does enjoy rural pursuits such as fishing and shooting. He supports the Alliance's pursuit to scrap the ban on the basis that he doesn't agree with the state's interference with people's private pursuits".

    Controversy over remarks on immigration

    On 5 August 1976, Clapton provoked an uproar and lingering controversy when he spoke out against increasing immigration during a concert in Birmingham. Visibly intoxicated, Clapton voiced his support of controversial political candidate Enoch Powell, and announced on stage that Britain was in danger of becoming a "black colony". Among other things, Clapton said "Keep Britain white!" which was at the time a National Front (NF) slogan. This incident, along with some controversial remarks made around the same time by David Bowie, as well as uses of Nazi-related imagery by Sid Vicious and Siouxsie Sioux, were the main catalysts for the creation of Rock Against Racism, with a concert on 30 April 1978.

    In an interview from October 1976 with Sounds magazine, Clapton said that he was not a political person and that his rambling remarks that night were not appropriate. However, in a 2004 interview with Uncut, Clapton referred to Powell as "outrageously brave". He complained that the UK was "... inviting people in as cheap labour and then putting them in ghettos". In 2004, Clapton told an interviewer for Scotland on Sunday, "There's no way I could be a racist. It would make no sense". In his 2007 autobiography, Clapton called himself "deliberately oblivious to it all" and wrote, "I had never really understood or been directly affected by racial conflict ... when I listened to music, I was disinterested in where the players came from or what colour their skin was. Interesting, then, that 10 years later, I would be labelled a racist." In a December 2007 interview with Melvyn Bragg on The South Bank Show, Clapton reiterated his support for Enoch Powell and again denied that Powell's views were racist.
     

    Good for Clapton.

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  86. roo_ster says:
    @istevefan

    Well.. since the neo-cons and Conservatism, Inc. in general (take Kevin Williamson, please!) along with the globalist neo-liberals all hate and despise ordinary middle-clas/working-class Americans, all the rest of us — from alt-right to paleo-libertarians to old-fashioned liberals — are finding a certain common purpose.
     
    There is really no reason why the neocons should hate ordinary whites. Judging by these two old quotes from two of the godfathers of neoconservatism, it appears neocons primarily want a strong US military and an engaged America who butts its nose into world affairs.

    From Irving Kristol in 1973:

    Senator McGovern is very sincere when he says that he will try to cut the military budget by 30%. And this is to drive a knife in the heart of Israel… Jews don’t like big military budgets. But it is now an interest of the Jews to have a large and powerful military establishment in the United States…American Jews who care about the survival of the state of Israel have to say, no, we don’t want to cut the military budget, it is important to keep that military budget big, so that we can defend Israel.
     
    From Norman Podhoretz in 1979:

    There was, to be sure, one thing that many of even the most passionately committed American Zionists were reluctant to do, and that was to face up to the fact that continued American support for Israel depended upon continued American involvement in international affairs– from which it followed that an American withdrawal into the kind of isolationist mood that prevailed most recently between the two world wars, and that now looked as though it might soon prevail again, represented a direct threat to the security of Israel.

     

    No one in America supports a larger military budget than Trump and his supporters. Trump supporters also seem to join the military in disproportionate numbers. One might argue that Trump promoted a somewhat less-interventionist foreign policy, but so far he has not acted like Pat Buchanan on this issue. Besides most GOP-voting whites are pro-Israel. Just look at how excited they got over the embassy move to Jerusalem.

    So based upon the original concerns of neocons it makes little sense for them to hate ordinary whites so much. Other segments of society aren't nearly as supportive of their goals.

    “There is really no reason why the neocons should hate ordinary whites. ”

    Reason’s got nothing to do with it. Animus toward Christians of European descent is more than enough.

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  87. Bill B. says:
    @Anon
    Off topic:

    Not yet but soon

    The apple trees were heavy with fruit, and the rows and rows of tomatoes, squash, and hot peppers were ripe for picking. But in the end, Gary and Patty Bartley, prizewinning farmers in western Michigan, had to leave $200,000 to $300,000 worth of their crops to rot in their fields last year.
    They couldn’t find enough people to pick everything.
    That was not for lack of trying. They had urged their domestic migrant workers to return, but only 12 did – about a third of the crew size they needed. The Bartleys placed ads in papers out of state and advertised all season with the Michigan state workforce development agency. Not a single person applied.

    The challenge is that H-2As make a significant dent in farmers’ profits. The program costs $1,600 to $1,800 per worker in fees, plus the grower must provide free housing, linens, equipped kitchens, and regular transportation to buy groceries and other supplies.
     
    https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2018/0622/US-farmers-desperate-for-help-increasingly-turn-to-Mexico

    Far more notable than the vineyard’s fruit, however, is how it gets farmed.
    “There are no hand practices out here,” said Kurtural. “Everything is done by machine.”
    From spraying to pruning to canopy management, all the way through harvest, the vineyard is essentially “no-touch.” The processes can all be carried out with the same machine, its frame fitted with different heads depending on the work needed.
    As Kurtural walked through the rows, the vines were being watered by an irrigation system directed by sensors in the vineyard.
    In all, he said, the cost to manage the vineyard comes to about 7 cents a vine.
    “This is as cheap as it gets I think.”

     

    https://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/with-vineyard-labor-scarce-napa-growers-warm-up-to-machines/article_19f7f5c5-995f-5f21-ba6c-66af1fe6ce11.html

    I’ve noted here before that when I worked on farms in France in the 1970s some farms used machines to pick grapes. They worked well as far as I could see; but it took time to replant/retrain vines to shapes suitable for machines.

    Only a couple of farms I was the only seasonal labourer.

    In the 70s…

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  88. @nebulafox
    As for as Iraq goes, the most apropos comparison for a country we have military history with is not Germany or Japan, but Yugoslavia. There's a creepy parallel in the ethno-religious hatreds, the two being heavily intertwined in these parts of the world, only being kept in check by a greater authority, whether under an explicitly religious empire or a secular dictator.

    The humanitarian ideological rational for intervening was similar. The main difference, other than being far more strategically disasterous and on a much bigger scale, is that after breaking the vase, nobody in the Bush Administration willing to opt for the least worst solution of a balkanization until it was too late. Obama's mind-boggling decision to surge in Afghanistan made things worse, but still, neoconservativege measure to blame for that. If Bosnia today is Upper Hell, Iraq is the City of Dis.

    Imagine if one disputed corner of Yugoslavia had had huge quantities of oil though.

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    • Replies: @MarkinPNW
    "Imagine if one disputed corner of Yugoslavia had had huge quantities of oil...", or rather gold. Such as Kosovo.

    Yup, after the international banksters disrupted and destroyed Yugoslavia's economy, instigating its descent into partisan conflict, the same international banksters now control Yugoslavia's, oops I mean Kosovo's gold mines.
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  89. Precious says:
    @Peter Akuleyev
    The Neo-Cons killed our friends and he’s the only one we’ve seen say this out loud.
    I’d follow him anywhere


    That makes no sense to me. Trump doesn't really believe deeply in any ideology, he is about getting a better deal for himself and beating his enemies. Sometimes that works in America's favor, like immigration, other times it leads to chaos, like healthcare, sometimes negative, as the tariffs are likely to turn out. Trump has said a few nasty things about neocons, but he still seems to be following their program in Afghanistan and Iraq. He is still cozying up to the Saudis and Israel, and just gave the neocons a huge gift by reinstating sanctions on Iran. Give Trump credit where its due, maybe, but why follow him blindly?

    Sometimes that works in America’s favor, like immigration, other times it leads to chaos, like healthcare,

    Sickness care in the USA has been in chaos long before Trump. Obama was shoveling money from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac into Obamacare in a desperate shell game to keep it afloat.

    Trump has said a few nasty things about neocons, but he still seems to be following their program in Afghanistan and Iraq. He is still cozying up to the Saudis and Israel, and just gave the neocons a huge gift by reinstating sanctions on Iran.

    Maybe he looked at his knock-down drag out fight with the FBI, CIA and the DoJ and realized he didn’t need the Pentagon, Saudis and Mossad all piling in against him as well.

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  90. @Abe
    Not holding my breath for an equal time headline about Hillary’s ashes spread over a stable, democratic, non-African black-slave tradin’ Libya.

    Not holding my breath for an equal time headline about Hillary’s ashes spread over …

    … anywhere besides a superfund site. First of all, you’d better hold your breath and shelter the children, pets, and plant life. Simple chemistry should tell you that any combustion of Hildabeast tissue will result in Sulfur Oxides, and Oxides of Sulfur result in acid rain. Therefore, for anyone who cares one whit about THE PLANET!, it should be obvious that it’ll be well worth paying that small bit of extra taxpayer money to have her interred, 6 ft … nah, 60 ft, hmmm, let’s just make sure and make it 600 miles under … may as well make it down to the mantle, where she came from to begin with.

    “Lots of people talk and few of them know,
    the soul of that woman was created below.”

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  91. @Cagey Beast
    .... and the only way to knock Washington out of its neocon/"indispensable nation" groove was a smack between the eyes from Donald Trump's golf club. I never would have believed it myself a few years ago but here we are.

    Did that really work?

    After all, his signature legislative achievement has to get Paul Ryan’s tax bill through. Not exactly hitting the neo-cons between the eyes when you give them everything they ask for.

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  92. @Anon
    I was watching a documentary on Eric Clapton last night, and I went to check something on Wikipedia. It included some "rivers of blood" stuff not mentioned in the documentary:

    Political views

    Clapton is a supporter of the Countryside Alliance which promotes issues relating to the British countryside. He has played in concerts to raise funds for the organisation and publicly opposed the Labour Party's ban on fox hunting with the 2004 Hunting Act. A spokesperson for Clapton said, "Eric supports the Countryside Alliance. He doesn't hunt himself, but does enjoy rural pursuits such as fishing and shooting. He supports the Alliance's pursuit to scrap the ban on the basis that he doesn't agree with the state's interference with people's private pursuits".

    Controversy over remarks on immigration

    On 5 August 1976, Clapton provoked an uproar and lingering controversy when he spoke out against increasing immigration during a concert in Birmingham. Visibly intoxicated, Clapton voiced his support of controversial political candidate Enoch Powell, and announced on stage that Britain was in danger of becoming a "black colony". Among other things, Clapton said "Keep Britain white!" which was at the time a National Front (NF) slogan. This incident, along with some controversial remarks made around the same time by David Bowie, as well as uses of Nazi-related imagery by Sid Vicious and Siouxsie Sioux, were the main catalysts for the creation of Rock Against Racism, with a concert on 30 April 1978.

    In an interview from October 1976 with Sounds magazine, Clapton said that he was not a political person and that his rambling remarks that night were not appropriate. However, in a 2004 interview with Uncut, Clapton referred to Powell as "outrageously brave". He complained that the UK was "... inviting people in as cheap labour and then putting them in ghettos". In 2004, Clapton told an interviewer for Scotland on Sunday, "There's no way I could be a racist. It would make no sense". In his 2007 autobiography, Clapton called himself "deliberately oblivious to it all" and wrote, "I had never really understood or been directly affected by racial conflict ... when I listened to music, I was disinterested in where the players came from or what colour their skin was. Interesting, then, that 10 years later, I would be labelled a racist." In a December 2007 interview with Melvyn Bragg on The South Bank Show, Clapton reiterated his support for Enoch Powell and again denied that Powell's views were racist.
     

    The Beatles~ No Pakistanis
    the orginal Get Back

    …Don’t dig no Pakistanis taking all the people’s jobs
    …Oh ne nu ne nu was a Puerto Rican born in na na na na na

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  93. @TheMediumIsTheMassage
    OT: New Robert Zemeckis film 'Welcome to Marwen' prominently features Steve Carrell getting bashed by "a bunch of Nazi thugs".

    Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6dy7xQ8NeE

    The problem is, it's based on a real story, and in real life the guy got bashed by a group of men (four white, one black) who attacked him because he was a cross-dresser. There are zero news reports of any kind about his attackers having been neo-Nazis.

    Is this Hollywood appropriating an anti-LGBT hate crime and turning it into an anti-semitic crime (to ostensibly perpetuate their own ethnic animuses and paranoid delusions)? I'd love to see what would happen if someone posited that to some leading leftie 'thinkers'. The cognitive dissonance would be glorious.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Not all of Robert Zemeckis's movies work, but enough of them do that he still gets financing to make some kind of weird original concept movie 40 years after his first movie.
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  94. @Anon
    I was watching a documentary on Eric Clapton last night, and I went to check something on Wikipedia. It included some "rivers of blood" stuff not mentioned in the documentary:

    Political views

    Clapton is a supporter of the Countryside Alliance which promotes issues relating to the British countryside. He has played in concerts to raise funds for the organisation and publicly opposed the Labour Party's ban on fox hunting with the 2004 Hunting Act. A spokesperson for Clapton said, "Eric supports the Countryside Alliance. He doesn't hunt himself, but does enjoy rural pursuits such as fishing and shooting. He supports the Alliance's pursuit to scrap the ban on the basis that he doesn't agree with the state's interference with people's private pursuits".

    Controversy over remarks on immigration

    On 5 August 1976, Clapton provoked an uproar and lingering controversy when he spoke out against increasing immigration during a concert in Birmingham. Visibly intoxicated, Clapton voiced his support of controversial political candidate Enoch Powell, and announced on stage that Britain was in danger of becoming a "black colony". Among other things, Clapton said "Keep Britain white!" which was at the time a National Front (NF) slogan. This incident, along with some controversial remarks made around the same time by David Bowie, as well as uses of Nazi-related imagery by Sid Vicious and Siouxsie Sioux, were the main catalysts for the creation of Rock Against Racism, with a concert on 30 April 1978.

    In an interview from October 1976 with Sounds magazine, Clapton said that he was not a political person and that his rambling remarks that night were not appropriate. However, in a 2004 interview with Uncut, Clapton referred to Powell as "outrageously brave". He complained that the UK was "... inviting people in as cheap labour and then putting them in ghettos". In 2004, Clapton told an interviewer for Scotland on Sunday, "There's no way I could be a racist. It would make no sense". In his 2007 autobiography, Clapton called himself "deliberately oblivious to it all" and wrote, "I had never really understood or been directly affected by racial conflict ... when I listened to music, I was disinterested in where the players came from or what colour their skin was. Interesting, then, that 10 years later, I would be labelled a racist." In a December 2007 interview with Melvyn Bragg on The South Bank Show, Clapton reiterated his support for Enoch Powell and again denied that Powell's views were racist.
     

    That is very impressive, especially since a music star of his generation is not one you would expect to have such opinions. There must be a lot of like-minded people everywhere. What if we are actually the clear (but unpublicized) majority and the nonsense has been a scam made to look much larger than it really is?

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  95. @The Z Blog

    OT: Looks like our old friend Max Boot is defending Harvard against the Asians

    The old tribe feels like they earned their 25% quota, they don’t want to give it up to the new tribe.

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  96. @Nigerian Nationalist
    What if they told you to stay alive?

    It would mean they want to stick me, and the rest of the middle class, with the bill.

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  97. Precious says:

    I think that although the racial and ethnic differences between Germans and Japanese and Iraqis are certainly a significant factor, perhaps the fact that we were willing to carpet-bomb Germany into rubble and fire bomb-Tokyo and nuke Japan not once but twice was an equally if not more important factor.

    In Iraq we tried to avoid civilian casualties, refused to desecrate their mosques, and tried to create a “democracy.” In Japan and Germany we slaughtered their men (and their women and children) without mercy until the survivors were like beaten dogs licking our hands.

    One major reason the Japanese did not begin killing American soldiers* during their occupation was a command directly spoken to their nation by their Emperor. “Bear the unbearable.” The Emperor’s authority was so great he was largely obeyed. No one has that level of authority in the Middle East.

    *As I understand it some Okinawans did ambush and murder some black American GIs who were raping women, but that may have been much later.

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    • Replies: @L Woods
    Begs the question: how much anti-“American” animus is really down to the predations of its coddled, unaccountable minorities?
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  98. @Charles Pewitt
    The Neo-Conservatives are evil shysters who push open borders mass legal immigration and illegal immigration.

    Mass immigration lowers wages, increases income inequality, swamps schools, overwhelms hospitals and harms the environment.

    The Neo-Conservatives and George W Bush dragged the US military into the Iraq War debacle.

    The Neo-Conservatives want to continue to use the US military as muscle in Middle Eastern wars on behalf of Israel.

    The Neo-Conservatives have an eliminationist hatred of the European Christian ancestral core of the United States.

    The Neo-Conservatives are mostly Jews, but some WASP scum such as politician puppets George W Bush and Dick Cheney do their bidding.

    The Neo-Conservatives hate Donald Trump because Trump implicitly sides with the European Christian ancestral core of the United States.

    The Neo-Conservatives push open borders free trade and support all the sovereignty-sapping, job-killing trade deal scams that have harmed the United States.

    There was a time when the left agreed with what is now the alt-right on most of these issues.

    Money has always corrupted politics. I grew up in Arkansas, and I remember when Bill Clinton and Hillary Rodham were wild-eyed reformers. That lasted until 1980, when Clinton lost for re-election. Certain people came to Bill and Hillary and they made some deals with them:

    Bill would very publicly sing in a church choir for a church service that was on local TV.
    Hillary would take Bill’s last name.
    Bill and Hillary would never, ever again in their lives go against the wishes of Wal-Mart or Tysons or JB Hunt or any of the other large companies in Arkansas.
    Bill would work for the corporate interests, and if there is any time left over, he could work for his pet liberal causes.
    They would fund Bill to the max.

    Bill took the deal, and never again lost another election.

    If you go back even further, there was even a time when Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos were reformers.

    That is politics today. If you want to get elected, you go with the powers-that-be. If not, they destroy you.

    Trump’s bargain involved tax cuts for the rich, and putting in a neo-con approved justice on the Supreme Court.

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    • Replies: @Precious
    That is politics today. If you want to get elected, you go with the powers-that-be. If not, they destroy you.

    Your post was perfect up to this point.

    Trump’s bargain involved tax cuts for the rich, and putting in a neo-con approved justice on the Supreme Court.

    This is where you went off the road. The rich don't care about tax cuts, pennies as far as they are concerned. They do care about tax breaks, and with Trump if you want a tax break, you better start building a plant in America or hire American workers before you approach him for your tax break. And so far Gorsuch has done just fine on the Supreme Court, if you have a case where you can cite Gorsuch siding with the neocons, I would be happy to take a look.
    , @Dan Hayes
    Paleo Liberal:

    While Gorsuch may be neo-con approved I do not believe him to one of those undesirable despicables. I'm basing this judgement on his late mother's politics. And so far he has proved to be a worthy successor to Scalia.
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  99. Precious says:
    @Paleo Liberal
    There was a time when the left agreed with what is now the alt-right on most of these issues.

    Money has always corrupted politics. I grew up in Arkansas, and I remember when Bill Clinton and Hillary Rodham were wild-eyed reformers. That lasted until 1980, when Clinton lost for re-election. Certain people came to Bill and Hillary and they made some deals with them:

    Bill would very publicly sing in a church choir for a church service that was on local TV.
    Hillary would take Bill's last name.
    Bill and Hillary would never, ever again in their lives go against the wishes of Wal-Mart or Tysons or JB Hunt or any of the other large companies in Arkansas.
    Bill would work for the corporate interests, and if there is any time left over, he could work for his pet liberal causes.
    They would fund Bill to the max.

    Bill took the deal, and never again lost another election.


    If you go back even further, there was even a time when Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos were reformers.

    That is politics today. If you want to get elected, you go with the powers-that-be. If not, they destroy you.

    Trump's bargain involved tax cuts for the rich, and putting in a neo-con approved justice on the Supreme Court.

    That is politics today. If you want to get elected, you go with the powers-that-be. If not, they destroy you.

    Your post was perfect up to this point.

    Trump’s bargain involved tax cuts for the rich, and putting in a neo-con approved justice on the Supreme Court.

    This is where you went off the road. The rich don’t care about tax cuts, pennies as far as they are concerned. They do care about tax breaks, and with Trump if you want a tax break, you better start building a plant in America or hire American workers before you approach him for your tax break. And so far Gorsuch has done just fine on the Supreme Court, if you have a case where you can cite Gorsuch siding with the neocons, I would be happy to take a look.

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  100. MarkinPNW says:
    @al gore rhythms
    Imagine if one disputed corner of Yugoslavia had had huge quantities of oil though.

    “Imagine if one disputed corner of Yugoslavia had had huge quantities of oil…”, or rather gold. Such as Kosovo.

    Yup, after the international banksters disrupted and destroyed Yugoslavia’s economy, instigating its descent into partisan conflict, the same international banksters now control Yugoslavia’s, oops I mean Kosovo’s gold mines.

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  101. Dan Hayes says:
    @Paleo Liberal
    There was a time when the left agreed with what is now the alt-right on most of these issues.

    Money has always corrupted politics. I grew up in Arkansas, and I remember when Bill Clinton and Hillary Rodham were wild-eyed reformers. That lasted until 1980, when Clinton lost for re-election. Certain people came to Bill and Hillary and they made some deals with them:

    Bill would very publicly sing in a church choir for a church service that was on local TV.
    Hillary would take Bill's last name.
    Bill and Hillary would never, ever again in their lives go against the wishes of Wal-Mart or Tysons or JB Hunt or any of the other large companies in Arkansas.
    Bill would work for the corporate interests, and if there is any time left over, he could work for his pet liberal causes.
    They would fund Bill to the max.

    Bill took the deal, and never again lost another election.


    If you go back even further, there was even a time when Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos were reformers.

    That is politics today. If you want to get elected, you go with the powers-that-be. If not, they destroy you.

    Trump's bargain involved tax cuts for the rich, and putting in a neo-con approved justice on the Supreme Court.

    Paleo Liberal:

    While Gorsuch may be neo-con approved I do not believe him to one of those undesirable despicables. I’m basing this judgement on his late mother’s politics. And so far he has proved to be a worthy successor to Scalia.

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  102. @nebulafox
    You know, it's so ironic that Trump decided on a ban from Iran when Iranian immigrants generally cause few, if any, problems wherever they go. Iranian-Americans are heavily represented in hardcore science and technology thanks to the scientific diaspora raising their children here after 1979.

    There isn't much in the way of Shi'a militant attacks against the West in general, either, like you see with the radical Sunni types. Assassination attempts against figures the Iranian government doesn't happen to like, sure, but come on, now. We've tolerated car bombings from a friendly regime against their former foreign minister to the US in downtown DC.

    Afghanistan didn't make the list, though, despite the fact that they don't always send their Best... same story with Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. Not always: I've personally known some very pleasant-and intelligent-guys from all three. But enough that should make you raise an eyebrow as to why Iran got banned and they didn't. Somehow, I think the neocons manage to negatively influence everything, even the nationalist impulses Trump has. It's like a Reverse Midas touch: everything they touch turns to what you see in Dante's 2nd Malabolge.

    OK... for the umpteenth time, I need to get out of here. I really do. Who knows, maybe I'll regret all this 10 years from now. Or not. We'll see if I become more human.

    nebulafox wrote:

    You know, it’s so ironic that Trump decided on a ban from Iran when Iranian immigrants generally cause few, if any, problems wherever they go. Iranian-Americans are heavily represented in hardcore science and technology thanks to the scientific diaspora raising their children here after 1979.

    Yeah, that has also been my personal experience: the Iranian-Americans I’ve known were perhaps slightly saner than the average native-born Americans I have known.

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  103. @Hippopotamusdrome

    Not all of Robert Zemeckis’s movies work, but enough of them do that he still gets financing to make some kind of weird original concept movie 40 years after his first movie.

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  104. @eah
    In the minds of Krauthammer et al (other neocon Jews), I don't think Iraq was ever meant to be the main beneficiary of that war.

    Charles Krauthammer argues in 2003 that the morality of the Iraq War is "unassailable"

    Journal of Military and Veterans' Health -- Trends in traumatic limb amputation in Allied Forces in Iraq and Afghanistan

    By theatre of operations to September 2010, 1,158 US military personnel suffered major or partial limb amputations as a result of the conflict in Iraq, 249 in Afghanistan,...

    They were not wars, otherwise we would have killed lots more Iraqis and Afghans. And stupidity equals morality is not just dishonest; it is evil. Neocons and stupid wars have a correlation coefficient of +1.

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  105. Regret says:

    A knife worth twisting.

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  106. MarcB. says:
    @Matra
    There are quite a few areas where those of us on the left can agree with those of you on the alt-right.

    Hating the neo-con [email protected][email protected] who got us into Iraq is a big one.

    The Left and neocons are almost always on the same side. Extremely rare for them to disagree. Since attacking Trump George W. Bush has such high ratings among Democrats he could be their candidate in 2020.

    The Left and neocons are almost always on the same side.

    That’s because they are both creatures of the Left. They only differ for those who buy into a false dialectic.

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  107. L Woods says:
    @Precious
    I think that although the racial and ethnic differences between Germans and Japanese and Iraqis are certainly a significant factor, perhaps the fact that we were willing to carpet-bomb Germany into rubble and fire bomb-Tokyo and nuke Japan not once but twice was an equally if not more important factor.

    In Iraq we tried to avoid civilian casualties, refused to desecrate their mosques, and tried to create a “democracy.” In Japan and Germany we slaughtered their men (and their women and children) without mercy until the survivors were like beaten dogs licking our hands.

    One major reason the Japanese did not begin killing American soldiers* during their occupation was a command directly spoken to their nation by their Emperor. "Bear the unbearable." The Emperor's authority was so great he was largely obeyed. No one has that level of authority in the Middle East.

    *As I understand it some Okinawans did ambush and murder some black American GIs who were raping women, but that may have been much later.

    Begs the question: how much anti-“American” animus is really down to the predations of its coddled, unaccountable minorities?

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  108. nebulafox says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    You know, it’s so ironic that Trump decided on a ban from Iran when Iranian immigrants generally cause few, if any, problems wherever they go. Iranian-Americans are heavily represented in hardcore science and technology thanks to the scientific diaspora raising their children here after 1979.
     
    You make a very good point.

    Your whole comment is good, except for this very last part:


    OK… for the umpteenth time, I need to get out of here. I really do. Who knows, maybe I’ll regret all this 10 years from now. Or not. We’ll see if I become more human.
     
    You don't need to get out of here. It won't make any difference. The NSA already has everything we've posted, linked to our IP addresses and cross-referenced with terabytes of personal data. We can share stories together in person when they lock us all up in a camp somewhere.

    I’m not worried about that. Just starting out at this juncture, I can’t afford to be thinking about too much other than the next day, anyway. In the future, if history calls me in an era of chaos, I’m sure some obsessive somewhere will figure out who “nebulafox” really was, and I’ll deal with the fallout from that then. If it doesn’t, and I end up living the sort of stable, respectable, upstanding bourgeois life that I didn’t think was possible for myself until recently, then there’s nothing to worry about given the amount of noise that’ll be out there.

    No, I need to get out of here because I’ve got a massive e-addiction that needs dealing with first and foremost, and this website is the first thing that needs to be cut out. Electronic devices are messing with our neural connections in ways I’m not sure humans are quite evolved to handle yet. It’s quite fascinating.

    Peace.

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