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From the New York Times news section:

Trump’s War on the ‘Deep State’ Turns Against Him

The impeachment inquiry is in some ways the culmination of a battle between the president and the government institutions he distrusted and disparaged.

By Peter Baker, Lara Jakes, Julian E. Barnes, Sharon LaFraniere and Edward Wong
Oct. 23, 2019, 6:42 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON — Nameless, faceless and voiceless, the C.I.A. officer who first triggered the greatest threat to President Trump’s tenure in office seemed to be practically the embodiment of the “deep state” that the president has long accused of trying to take him down.

But over the last three weeks, the deep state has emerged from the shadows in the form of real live government officials, past and present, who have defied a White House attempt to block cooperation with House impeachment investigators and provided evidence that largely backs up the still-anonymous whistle-blower.

And just wait until the public realizes that this brouhaha is about the President delaying foreign aid payments to Ukraine. There’s nothing more sacred in the eyes of American voters than our national duty to pay foreign aid promptly.

 
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  1. My money is on Pierre Delecto as the guy who finally brings orange man down.

  2. Lamprey looting hard-earned resources of a once proud people.

  3. Clyde says:

    I never heard him like this before but…. Today Rush Limbaugh went on for at least 40 minutes on, “Invade the world, invite the world”. He did not use this exact Sailerism- phrase, but Rush went on about how the same people who have us go to war against Libya, Iraq, Syria etc., are the same open borders crowd who want us to take in refugees and immigrants from the places we mash with our military footprints.

    Rush brought this up to support Trump’s withdrawal from protecting Kurd’s territory. Tucker Carlson has been like this for a while. As in, why are our troops off protecting Syria’s borders, when they should be protecting ours?

  4. The Deep State loves us and wants what’s best for the West and the rest. Maybe one morning we’ll wake up to learn that key installations across the US have been secured by a bunch of concerned experts calling themselves the “National Renewal Alliance”* or something similar?

    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Renewal_Alliance

  5. Lot says:

    I have defended Trump against the attacks he’s done nothing on immigration. He’s done 80% of what I expected, just far too slowly. Lots of executive orders that should have been issued on day 1 instead took a year or two. The recent wins in the Supreme Court should have happened in 2017 and early 2018. And his tax plan was bad overall, and a missed opportunity to shovel cash into middle class pockets.

    Overall his record has been pretty good.

    With that mostly positive background, I wouldn’t mind a deep-state “coup” that gives us Pence as president. I’d change this view if I saw evidence that Pence would be a weaker candidate for 2020. But he’s cleaner, a better role model, and has a much longer record of advocating for conservative values.

    I had barely heard of him when Trump picked him, so I read some of his columns and talk radio transcripts and came away very impressed. Imagine Rush mixed with a dash of Ross Douthet and Rod Dreher.

    Voting for Trump in 2020 will be a vote for a president I am not proud of, but out of a duty to prevent much greater evils. Pence I’d vote for with enthusiasm. I think Dem turnout and energy would also be depressed without Trump to hate on.

  6. @Lot

    Pence is a far weaker candidate than Trump because he is an evangelical fuddy-duddy and lacks celebrity name recognition.

    Also Pence has no principles when it comes to foreign policy- he is pretty much an “invade the world” guy who won’t continue Trump’s work reigning in the state department & intelligence agencies.

    Trump won more because of his wild foreign policy & fair trade stances than immigration. The midwestern states he won over to everyone’s surprise aren’t really as overwhelmed by immigrant influxes as the South, Northeast & West Coast. Immigration is not on their radar yet and historically they are fairly economically liberal.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Realist
  7. Lot says:
    @Bragadocious

    As I alluded to above, for me and I imagine most other Republicans, the biggest factor to consider on dumping Trump is whether it helps or hurts us in 2020. I just don’t know. A Trump resignation for health issues that gave us Pence I think Pence would be stronger. But a bitter intraparty fight to remove Trump… probably bad, possibly a disaster.

    The fact there are nearly no polls on this suggests the GOP Establishment isn’t seriously considering removing Trump.

    Here’s one of the few polls that compare Trump v Pence against Warren and Biden. It shows Trump to be the stranger candidate over Pence:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/466888-poll-biden-and-warren-both-beat-trump-and-pence-in-florida

    • Replies: @Charon
    , @El Dato
    , @LondonBob
    , @Anon
  8. Off Topic: The noose that didn’t bark.

    Minnesota Public Radio

    St. Paul Mayor Melvin Carter has received racist threats amid a long-simmering dispute over how the city should collect its trash.

    Police in Minnesota’s capital are investigating threatening and racist messages to Mayor Carter in the run-up to a citywide vote on organized trash collection.

    An anonymous caller using racial slurs left a voicemail at Carter’s office on Monday, police spokesperson Sgt. Mike Ernster said. The caller warned that if taxes increase, Carter will have to “pay for it” and be forced to put “bulletproof windows” in his house.

    Carter also received racist hate mail earlier this month. The letters contained newspaper clippings about the upcoming trash referendum with handwritten notes in black marker. At least one of the letters has been dusted for fingerprints, Ernster said.

    Carter is St. Paul’s first African American mayor. The mayor’s office said it takes all threats seriously. Like previous St. Paul mayors, Carter has a police officer assigned to him for security.

    The Pioneer Press

    What do the numbers say about gun violence?

    132 people have been wounded or killed by gunfire in St. Paul so far this year; as of mid-October last year, there had been 112.

    There have been 24 homicides in St. Paul this year, 22 of which have involved guns. Eight of St. Paul’s homicides happened in September.

    St. Paul has seen an average of about 16 homicides a year since 1999, according to FBI data. The most during that span was 24 in 2005, the least was eight in 2011,

    … but there is a silver lining …

    Carter said there are people who think St. Paul is on pace for a record-high year, but he said that happened when he was in junior high school in the city in the early 1990s. St. Paul documented the most homicides in 1992 with 34, according to the police department.

    • Replies: @Charon
    , @Pilgrim786
  9. Charon says:
    @Lot

    As I alluded to above, for me and I imagine most other Republicans

    But as this post and the one about Pence make clear, you’re pretty much a traditional Establishment Republican (GOPe) type and for this reason it’s not even clear what you’re doing on this site.

    I realize that there are others here like you, but it seems like the experience would be continually frustrating.

    • Replies: @Lot
    , @SFG
  10. Charon says:
    @Jack Armstrong

    Carter also received racist hate mail earlier this month. The letters contained newspaper clippings about the upcoming trash referendum with handwritten notes in black marker.

    Black marker. Isn’t that just typical? And why did it have to be handwritten? Engraving is so much more tasteful.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  11. Hail says: • Website

    Nameless, faceless and voiceless, the C.I.A. officer who first triggered the greatest threat to President Trump

    Has anyone ever answered this Q posed by an iSteve commenter on Sept. 27, 2019:

    The whistle-blower, a C.I.A. officer detailed to the White House

    In what capacity are CIA officers “detailed” to the White House?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  12. It took 5 people to create that article. FIVE?

    • LOL: Hail
    • Replies: @Lagertha
  13. Jack D says:

    “Seriously, who gives a s— about Afghanistan?” Trump said, according to Guy Snodgrass, a retired US Navy commander and Mattis’ former speechwriter. “So far we’re in for $7 trillion, fellas … $7 trillion including Iraq. Worst decision ever and we’re stuck with it.”

    https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-meeting-military-officials-mattis-guy-snodgrass-book-2019-10?

    Deep State is shocked that Trump said this. They took to their fainting couches.

  14. But over the last three weeks, the deep state has emerged from the shadows in the form of real live government officials, past and present,

    You know you are living in a Banana Republic when all this stuff is out in the open, known about by everybody. Nobody’s used the word “coup” yet … in due time …

    • Replies: @Kronos
  15. @Jack D

    It’s really great that Trump said this. I’d say “I take back all the bad I’ve said about him lately”, but then I’ve not criticized all that’s come out of his mouth. It’s been all the things he could have done and didn’t.

  16. @Charon

    Nobody cuts out big-font letters from magazines and pastes them on blank paper with glue sticks anymore. I mean, except kindergarten kids who aren’t looking for ransom money or pissed off at the mayor.

  17. Lugash says:

    Nameless, faceless and voiceless, the C.I.A. officer

    It’s a sham like Christine Blasey Ford. The CIA officer will be trotted at to give ‘brave testimony’ and suffer from ‘death threats’ in the future.

    • Replies: @BB753
  18. @Bragadocious

    My money is on Pierre Delecto as the guy who finally brings orange man down.

    Tell us how much money you have bet against Trump at PredictIt.

    • Replies: @Bragadocious
  19. Lot says:
    @Charon

    I am not actively hostile to the GOPe like some here are, but I am also basically a single issue voter against mass migration.*

    I also support somewhat higher taxes on the rich and regulations on wall street, and very much support tariffs on China. That’s not GOPe.

    To put it another way, a hypothetical Bernie who still sometimes voted against immigration like he did until around 2007, running against Jeb!, the GOPe personification, I’d vote Bernie.

    I think my views are fairly common in the USA generally and Steve’s regular readers.

    *A couple years ago my cousin’s husband, who doesn’t seem very political and is in the STEM sector, said “I am a single-issue immigration control voter, I’ll switch to voting Democrat if they become the stronger party on immigration.” Hearing language like that IRL and outside rightist websites was really encouraging.

  20. This is all like something out of a history of the late stages of the Roman Republic.

    • Agree: Hail
  21. JimB says:

    There’s nothing more sacred in the eyes of American voters than our national duty to pay foreign aid promptly.

    Americans in1972 didn’t care about a bunch of plumbers breaking into Democratic Committee headquarters, either. They re-elected Nixon by a landslide, but Democrats and the Deep State undid that election in less than two years.

  22. Boethiuss says:
    @Lot

    With that mostly positive background, I wouldn’t mind a deep-state “coup” that gives us Pence as president. I’d change this view if I saw evidence that Pence would be a weaker candidate for 2020. But he’s cleaner, a better role model, and has a much longer record of advocating for conservative values.

    There’s lot’s of factors in play. One is that the MSM news cycle is actually pretty topical at the moment. What Trump is accused of is impeachable, at least in principle. And unlike Russia/Mueller, Trump is pretty obviously guilty of what he’s being accused of, and there’s hard evidence to back that up.

    Of course, the GOP Senate can acquit Trump if they want, but I hope they don’t.

    We don’t know how much the iSteve commentariat/alt-right will do about the GOP if Trump is impeached, but we should find out. Hopefully it’s nothing, and tbh I think there’s a better chance of that than the blowhards want to think. But even if they actually do try to go scorched earth on us, I’d still rather have that than keep Trump as the face of the GOP.

    Trump as President has taken all the juice out of the Sailer Strategy. We desperately need to get it back.

  23. @Boethiuss

    LOL. Can’t even tell anymore if you two are Shareblue posting or NRO posting. Doesn’t really matter.

    • Replies: @Pericles
  24. Lagertha says:
    @Patrick in SC

    they’re doing that to protect their asses – they are too wussy and feckless to write that piece on their own. Fear is easy to detect in people like these creeps, who are traitors, and well, just evil, therefore, they will try to protect their reputations if things go south….which will happen, for Progressives. So tired of these awful people on the Coasts and big messed-up, dirty and sh*tty, lefty cities.

    I so wish the great Western Mountain states & Plains could form their own country so I would not have to live with majority Democrats anymore. Plus, the USA is forever divided. So, it would make sense that the people of the Appalachian range and the Rockies, with the Plains, secede and form their own country. I wonder if this could be possible?

    • Replies: @WJ
    , @Lagertha
    , @Lagertha
  25. SFG says:
    @Charon

    C’mon, it’s not like he’s Corvinus. 😉 (I actually do think some ideological diversity sharpens people’s arguments.)

    Seriously, there’s a case Pence would be more able to assemble a working team to enforce immigration laws without churning staff like Trump, bad visuals that energize the opposition like the kids in cages, or irritating our foreign allies (Trudeau is a woke idiot but did we really need to start a trade row with Canada?)… If you trust Pence.

    I really don’t, though. Trump rose on this issue and can’t back down. Pence, well, he can pull a ‘Nixon went to China…er, Mexico’ and push through an amnesty.

  26. Lagertha says:
    @Jack D

    I knew that it was going to be a shitshow since 2001. And, once Bush did not send a hydrogen bomb into Tora Bora, I knew. It’s all about money, nothing else. And, Americans have been duped to send their sons and daughters to these stupid wars to please the bankers who want the oil, drugs, gas, uranium, humans, whatever.

    • Replies: @Prester John
  27. SFG says:
    @Lot

    I used to joke about a ‘Tranders’ or ‘Sump’ program that would be immigration-restrictionist, regulate business, and raise taxes on the rich. Carlson beat me to it though.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  28. Lagertha says:
    @SFG

    Kids in cages was Obama’s policy.

  29. Isn’t the Presidency just a social construct ?

  30. Peterike says:
    @Boethiuss

    “What Trump is accused of is impeachable, at least in principle. And unlike Russia/Mueller, Trump is pretty obviously guilty of what he’s being accused of, and there’s hard evidence to back that up.”

    Utter nonsense.

    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @Boethiuss
  31. There’s nothing more sacred in the eyes of American voters than our national duty to pay foreign aid promptly.

    I’m pretty sure it wasn’t actually withholding aid. I think it was delaying approval of Ukraine’s purchase of US weaponry (our biggest industry) that was involved. So Trump was actually threatening the Ukes with NOT taking their money – or more precisely, not permitting them to pay US companies for killing gear.

    When Trump allowed this two years ago of course the press complained. But those are not two things that most people can hold in their attention spans any longer. Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/12/20/trump-administration-approves-lethal-arms-sales-to-ukraine/

    Maybe the thwarted US weapons manufacturers are behind this – doesn’t Trump realize who he works for?

    • Replies: @Kronos
  32. @SFG

    regulate business

    Deplatforming by private businesses is bad enough. You want them to be joined by the state?

    …and raise taxes on the rich.

    A 100% wealth tax? Otherwise, you’re in Sixteenth Amendment territory. Why not just put them in prison? Taxing Gates, Zuckerberg, the Jobs heirs, etc, will only do so much. Long sentences will see to it that nobody ever follows in their footsteps.

    Remember, all Americans are rich by world standards. Be careful what you wish for.

    • Replies: @Lot
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  33. Polynikes says:
    @Lot

    Then what the hell do you want with pence? He used to be my governor and the man is a bona fide idiot that is nothing but lead around by the establishment. You’d get none of what you want. He’s Romney but dumber.

    • Agree: HammerJack
    • LOL: BB753
  34. The thing about Trump which gives me some hope is ((( they))) Hate him so much and that means ((( they))) aparantly fear him. He is unpredictable and has used that to his advantage. The impeachment charge thing is very thin, and too complicated to resonate with anyone who doesn’t hate him. Also,after thier last hoax, his backers will eviscerate the gop if they remove him now.

  35. Polynikes says:
    @Boethiuss

    Grab a complimentary donut and head back to reddit. Don’t forget to send a postcard!

  36. Kronos says:
    @Bragadocious

    Of course Romney chose the lamest French name in the history of that language.

    *Pierre.*

  37. Lot says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Dr Paul, there’s a middle ground between Maoism and the current setup of effectively taxing billionaires at under 1% by letting them defer capital gains taxes forever, among many other tricks.

    The main area of regulations needed are the increasingly predatory interactions between big businesses and the middle class.

  38. @Lot

    I have a nice girl for you to meet. She looks like Kate Beckinsale with a dash of Whoopi Goldberg and Rosie O’Donnell

    • Replies: @Lot
  39. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:

    *Trump transfers from Fordham into Wharton
    *Trump makes billions in real estate
    *Trump has #1 bestseller book
    *Trump has #1 prime-time TV show
    *Trump enters politics and runs for political office for the first time and wins the U.S. presidency
    *Trump has every member of the opposing party against him and 80% of his own party against him
    *Trump has been opposed 24/7 by every major newspaper and every major media outlet since summer 2015
    *Trump is opposed by Hollywood and all of the entertainment world
    *Trump is opposed by State Dept., DOJ, the federal judiciary, and the Supreme Court— all of who try to subvert him at every turn
    *Trump is opposed by CIA, FBI, NSA, MI6, and dozen other intel agencies who’ve tried to take him down at ever corner
    *Trump sleeps 4 hours each night and after 14 hours of work in D.C. flies off to rallies
    *Trump unilaterally decides to pull out of Syria and is opposed by all but two Congress members and the entire military industrial
    complex and all of Washington D.C. and Northern Virginia
    *Trump creates the greatest economic environment ever in the U.S. and the lowest unemployment rates in U.S. history
    *Trump runs a non-stop Twitter defense against the coup.
    * Trump takes time out to land shots against his critics

    *Trump is super-fucking-human!

  40. Lot says:

    “((( they))) Hate him so much”

    “ If there’s one place in the world where Trump’s policies seem to be enjoying the most public support, it would be Israel. …
    Trump’s popularity in Israel seems to be a reversal of his predecessor.”

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/israelis-overwhelmingly-prefer-trump-to-obama-poll/

    “ The survey, conducted for Haaretz newspaper to coincide with US Independence Day, found that almost half of Israelis — 49 percent — strongly approved of Trump (and 23% slightly approved), while only 22% disapproved of the US president. However, when asked about Obama, only 19% of respondents strongly approved of him (while 30% slightly approved), compared to a substantial 46% who disapproved of the former American leader.

    His approval ratings in Israel eclipsed his support at home, where he only enjoys a 41.8% approval rating, according to 538’s poll aggregator.“

    • Replies: @newrouter
    , @Kronos
    , @fnn
  41. Lot says:
    @James Braxton

    Thanks, that’d be a big step up for me!

  42. To the ISteve commenter who thanked me for saying the Nats were legit (when they beat the Doyers). I was right, wasn’t I???

  43. El Dato says:
    @Boethiuss

    What Trump is accused of is impeachable

    That’s why there is no impeachment procedure, just an “impeachement inquiry”. Now fortified with 100% “whistleblower complaints” and Deep State fiber!

    The reals scandal should be, why is basically the US taxpayer invited to pay US weapon manufacturers to provide “lethal weapon” gibs to a random assembly of oligarchic statelets that is getting nothing done in particular except demand euroshekels, complain about gas transit rights, host actual Nazi rock concerts and field actual Nazi death squads?

    Don’t answer that, it’s ok.

    I will be laughing once an europolitician meeting or police headquarter is kebably removed with stuff proudly made in USA a bit further in the future.

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    , @Boethiuss
  44. Charon says:
    @SFG

    Seriously, there’s a case Pence would be more able to assemble a working team to enforce immigration laws without churning staff like Trump, bad visuals that energize the opposition like the kids in cages, or irritating our foreign allies

    I don’t know anyone who believes that Trump is a careful, subtle, or even a remotely diplomatic politician. Personally I think he’s a walking disaster zone but still a better choice for this country than Hillary was–and that was the choice we had.

    But is there any reason whatever to believe a President Pence would even be inclined to enforce the nation’s immigration laws? Or that the MSM would suddenly go soft on Republicans (or on Americans) and not show kids in cages?

    Trump’s a big fat ugly target but that doesn’t mean TPTB will suddenly shift course and stop their war against us “WCA” type people just because they succeed in deposing him. It’s much more likely the taste of blood will cause their hideous campaigns to intensify.

    • Replies: @Boethiuss
    , @Tex
  45. newrouter says:
    @Lot

    >his support at home, where he only enjoys a 41.8% approval rating, according to 538’s poll aggregator.<

    Didn't also they have a Hillary victory in 2016?

  46. @R.G. Camara

    If it is late stages (and it seems so), time for a Marius or Sulla or Crassus or Pompey or Julius Caesar to take over and for the civil wars to break out.

    • Replies: @lysias
  47. Charon says:
    @Lot

    I am also basically a single issue voter against mass migration.* […]

    I think my views are fairly common in the USA generally

    Well, I wish these two things went together but I don’t think they do.

  48. @R.G. Camara

    It’s like the late stages of the Roman Empire reenacted as an especially trashy
    Super Bowl halftime show — with Nancy Pelosi, Adam Schiff, Jerry Nadler and
    Maxine Waters substituting for the Black-Eyed Peas.

  49. @Charles Erwin Wilson 3

    Um, it was a joke. No I don’t think Monsieur Defecto will lay a glove on him.

  50. Kronos says:
    @Laurence Whelk

    Any idea if the Ukrainian military can actually use the weapons properly? The US/UK had sold weapon platforms to Saudi Arabia that everyone knew they couldn’t operate.

    • Replies: @Laurence Whelk
  51. 22pp22 says:
    @Lot

    Be grateful for Trump. You could have Justin Trudeau or Jacinda Ardern.

  52. guest says:

    Trump’s war on the Deep State bounces back upon himself? As though Trump started it. Despite the fact that they were trying to sink him before he was even elected.

    “Who started it?” doesn’t matter much to me, because for all I know Trump is a gamepiece in a multifactional Deep State conflict dating back to 1917 or whenever. Whatever’s going on, this Hubris Invites Nemesis dog won’t hunt. Just because you’re hubristic doesn’t mean you didn’t have a nemesis waiting for you. Before you were even born, maybe.

  53. Mr. Anon says:

    OT: PBS Frontline did a slanted piece on Trump’s immigration policy called “Zero Tolerance”. It featured the usual ominous music and cherry-picked still photos of people to make them look sinister, and lots of loaded language – “plotted” in lieu of “planned”, for example. Still in all, it wasn’t bad, and featured portions of an interview with Ann Coulter. The full interview with her is here (and it is well worth watching):

    • Agree: Hail
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    , @George
    , @ziggurat
  54. Boethiuss says:
    @Peterike

    “What Trump is accused of is impeachable, at least in principle. And unlike Russia/Mueller, Trump is pretty obviously guilty of what he’s being accused of, and there’s hard evidence to back that up.”

    Utter nonsense.

    The hell it is. It’s not just the transcript at this point, but they’ve got direct, on-the-record testimony from the principals involved, specifically the ambassador to Ukraine, and of course all the other evidence they had before.

    From a political pov, Trump’s problem is that in his case, contrary to Bill Clinton and the expectations regarding GWB or Obama, there is no impeachment boomerang to turn in his favor. The American people elected Trump, but they also know he’s up to all sorts of scammy shit, so they are in no mood to defend _his_ political stature or the prerogatives of his office when _he’s_ the one holding it. Whether it’s Mueller or impeachment, the American people are saying “Go ahead, investigate him all you want, we’re not going to cause any problem over it. Let us know what you find out.”

    There’s no percentage for impeachment to work in our favor. As it stands, the best outcome is if Trump is actually dump out of office. Then at least we’ll be rid of him.

  55. anon[271] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot

    Oh, come on, you’re just bitter because Bad Orange Man deprived you of your chance to vote for a real Republican, a true Republican, a Bush!

    Honestly, GOPe types can screw up a free lunch without even trying hard.

    • Replies: @Boethiuss
    , @Kronos
  56. anon[271] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot

    I am not actively hostile to the GOPe like some here are, but I am also basically a single issue voter against mass migration.*

    Lol!
    The GOPe has been funded for years by open borders types like the Koch brothers.
    GOPe loves the cheap, illegal labor that keeps wages flat to negative.

    Cognitive Dissonance much?

  57. Mr. Anon says:
    @SFG

    Pence is a chump and a complete cuck. He would also be an enthusiastic backer of The Forever War. He’s an even lower-energy version of Jeb Bush. He’s also just plain boring. He has to be one of the most boring people in American politics.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Pericles
  58. Boethiuss says:
    @Charon

    I don’t know anyone who believes that Trump is a careful, subtle, or even a remotely diplomatic politician. Personally I think he’s a walking disaster zone but still a better choice for this country than Hillary was–and that was the choice we had.

    I voted for Trump basically for that reason (though tbh I really don’t care about Hillary that much; contrary to 1995 or 1985 I think we have a lot more to fear from the liberals outside the political establishment as opposed to inside).

    But, if that was the choice then, it’s not the choice now. We can bank everything Trump did for us moving the Overton Window, while still eliminating the personal, political, and policy liability of Trump’s person.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    , @Lot
  59. Mr. Anon says:
    @Cagey Beast

    The Deep State loves us and wants what’s best for the West and the rest. Maybe one morning we’ll wake up to learn that key installations across the US have been secured by a bunch of concerned experts calling themselves the “National Renewal Alliance”* or something similar?

    Or perhaps the State Law and Order Restoration Council – SLORC, an acronym worthy of SPECTRE:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Peace_and_Development_Council

    • Replies: @Pericles
  60. Boethiuss says:
    @anon

    Oh, come on, you’re just bitter because Bad Orange Man deprived you of your chance to vote for a real Republican, a true Republican, a Bush!

    Blah blah blah same shit. Hell yeah, if that were my choice I’d vote for Jeb in a heartbeat over Donnie.

    But that’s not the choice. Even if Trump is removed from office, Jeb isn’t going to run. It’ll be Nikki Haley or Tom Cotton or somebody else.

    If the “Trump-ist” movement is ever going to find legs, Donnie himself has to go. Trump himself has no meaningful organization to perpetuate the ideas he ran on, and frankly hasn’t concerned himself very much with those things since he’s been in office.

  61. @Kronos

    Who cares – “we” got paid. Let them murder each other or blow up their sh** on the launchpad – “We” got paid.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  62. Kronos says:
    @Laurence Whelk

    I had a friend who was in the US Air Force and stationed in Saudi Arabia during the 1980s. His job was training Saudi Pilots. The Saudi’s were horrible and terrified of flying. They essentially “flew” around the airfield (like this) to buildup airtime.

    Also, the sand buildup in planes is apparently atrocious in desert areas.

  63. Kronos says:
    @anon

    Still my favorite Jeb Bush meme.

    • Replies: @KP
  64. @Clyde

    There were a few times Rush strayed off the Conservatism Inc. line before Trump.

  65. Dan Hayes says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Mr. Anon:

    THANKS!

    The understatement of the year: “it [the PBS Frontline program] is well worth watching”.

    A remarkedly pessimistic if realistic assessment of Trump and his presidency. Until now I had only heard disjointed snippets of Coulter’s assessments of Trump. These snippets had came over as superficial and wrong. But this program’s 50 minutes showed that my assessment was wrong. The facts are all laid out and they’re devastating (or at the very least disheartening)!

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  66. @Cagey Beast

    You’re a little, more like unrealistically, optimistic that we’d get something as patriotic as the National Renewal Alliance.

  67. @Boethiuss

    So, he should be like Obama, who concentrated on building up Obamaism?

  68. Pericles says:
    @san joaquin sam

    There are a few too many persistent and by now frankly tedious trolls on this site. Therefore, I ask Steve to hold a TROLL FIGHT. Select participants. Two days of invective against each other in the comment section. Steve after sage consideration declares the winners. Losers leave town (banned).

    • Replies: @TWS
  69. Pericles says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Well, Pence, like several other VPs throughout US history, was presumably not selected for being the charismatic, high-energy life of the party, restless, full of drastic ideas and with a big mouth on him.

    However, I do consider the Pence Principle to be excellent trolling, and indeed worth following in one’s own working life.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  70. Pericles says:
    @Mr. Anon

    They could at least have chosen to be the State Peace and Order Restoration Council. Ah, what might have been.

  71. El Dato says:
    @Kronos

    The #Resistance is basically the sludge at the bottom of a septic tank, so I wouldn’t be surprised.

    Meanwhile, Twitter Blueticks have found fresh, new crimes that Republican lawmakers committed:

    1) Disrespecting the Capitol Police
    2) “Breaking into” a secure room in the Capitol which is managed by the the TLA tentacles of the Deep State and in which “secrets are being kept & exchanged” (which are like unspoilt virgins meant to be used by High Priests only).
    3) Bringing phones (from Huawei?) into this newly discovered holiest of the holies, “compromising national security”

    Thus #ArrestThemAll is trending. Democraticity is not the same as Democracy, after all.

    When this is over, the mental institution will be full of people who need deprogramming.

  72. Kronos says:
    @Lot

    Just goes to show that the whole Zionism vs Bolshevism war is still going strong.

    Winston Churchill: ZIONISM versus BOLSHEVISM.
    A STRUGGLE FOR THE SOUL OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE. (1920)

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Zionism_versus_Bolshevism

  73. Kronos says:
    @Boethiuss

    But replace him with who?

    • Replies: @Boethiuss
  74. @Reg Cæsar

    Yeah, too serious here. ;-} Good points about being careful what we wish for. Lot’s reply calling you Dr. Paul is no slur in my book. It’s not that I think Lot meant it in a bad way, but if we had had more principled me like Ron Paul in office, lots more, the country wouldn’t be in the terrible shape it’s in.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  75. @Dan Hayes

    I don’ have time for this video right now, but I will recommend Ann Coulter’s latest column, “We, Too, Can Be A Failed Latin American State!”. Just the start of it:

    The left’s enthusiasm for Third World immigrants isn’t only because they vote 8-2 for the Democrats. It’s that Latin American peasants seem uniquely amenable to idiotic socialist schemes.

    You probably think it’s beyond silliness for Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren to keep promising FREE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL! NO PREMIUMS! NO CO-PAYS! ILLEGAL ALIENS, TOO! EVERYBODY GETS A PONY!

    No one could be gullible enough to fall for that.

    I refer you to the economic powerhouse that is Latin America.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    , @Art Deco
  76. Kronos says:
    @StAugustine

    Would you care to enlighten me on what they were saying.

    So 50% of the village is Pierre?

    • Replies: @El Dato
  77. There’s nothing more sacred in the eyes of American voters than our national duty to pay foreign aid promptly.

    And most of all to that Putin-hating bastion of freedom, Ukraine.

  78. IHTG says:
    @Boethiuss

    Why don’t you go take a look at some polls of Republicans? You fight with the army you’ve got, GOPe man.

    • Replies: @Boethiuss
  79. Dan Hayes says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Achmed E. Newman:

    Many thanks for Coulter’s column. Her video is long (50 mins) but I believe that you and other UR denizens will find it deeply rewarding as it’s a no-holds-barred analysis of Trump and his presidency (warts and all!).

    • Agree: Hail
    • Replies: @Hail
  80. Realist says:

    Trump’s War on the ‘Deep State’ Turns Against Him

    How can Trump be at war with the Deep State when he staffs his administration with it’s denizens?

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  81. Realist says:
    @S. Anonyia

    Pence is a far weaker candidate than Trump because he is an evangelical fuddy-duddy and lacks celebrity name recognition.

    Agreed his demeanor is pious. He would make a better evangelical Elmer Gantry.

    Also Pence has no principles when it comes to foreign policy- he is pretty much an “invade the world” guy who won’t continue Trump’s work reigning in the state department & intelligence agencies

    .

    I don’t see any evidence that Trump has reigned in anything.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
  82. Brutusale says:
    @Kronos

    I do like the Boston Herald’s Howie Carr and just call Romney by his given name, Willard. It reminds me of what a rat he is!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willard_(1971_film)

  83. Jake says:

    “And just wait until the public realizes that this brouhaha is about the President delaying foreign aid payments to Ukraine. There’s nothing more sacred in the eyes of American voters than our national duty to pay foreign aid promptly.”

    Especially when that country, as is true of the Ukraine, was an independent nation for more than 1000 years, an independent nation that provided the world with a great deal of examples of both good living and good governance., of producing admirable high culture and technological innovation, raising the standard of living for hundreds of millions.

  84. Romanian says: • Website
    @Kronos

    Sounds like a Harry Potter character! Impeachiarmus!!!

  85. Art Deco says:
    @Jack D

    Federal funding for overseas contingency operations has (in 2019 currency units) summed to about $2.1 tn since 2001, and that covers Iraq and Afghanistan. No clue where Mr. Snodgrass learned arithmetic.

    https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2018-10/54219-oco_spending.pdf

    • Replies: @WJ
    , @El Dato
    , @Jack D
    , @Clyde
  86. Art Deco says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Venezuela is the only failed state in Latin America. Street crime is a problem in Latin America, Chile excepted. There’s a great deal of political corruption and bureaucratic inertia. These aren’t failed states a la Somalia. About a half-dozen smaller Latin American states are quite poor. Most (including the four where 2/3 of the population of Latin America lives) have second-tier economies wherein per capita product is similar to that of the U.S. in the 1940s.

  87. Art Deco says:
    @Pericles

    Well, Pence, like several other VPs throughout US history, was presumably not selected for being the charismatic, high-energy life of the party, restless, full of drastic ideas and with a big mouth on him.

    “Charisma” was a term coined by Max Weber to describe a peculiar inspirational ability – Buddha and Christ. It’s a hopelessly degraded term now. John Kennedy and Wm. Jennings Bryan did have a certain quality, but that’s quite unusual among American politicians. Run down the list of Presidential nominees: Hellary, Mitt Romney, John McCain, John Kerry, George Bush fils, Albert Gore, Bob Dole, Bilge Clinton, Ross Perot, George Bush pere, Michael Dukakis…none of them fit your description. “Restless” and “Big Mouth” might describe John McCain, “High Energy” might describe Mitt Romney. Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, John Anderson, and Michael Dukakis might be described as fairly idea-rich (in a wonkish sort of way, the latter three), but not carrying around ‘drastic’ ideas.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  88. Thirdtwin says:

    “But over the last three weeks, the deep state has emerged from the shadows in the form of real live government officials.”

    They (It took five people to write this article?) say that like it’s a good thing, instead of a desperate Plan D. I read it like this…

    “But over the last three weeks, the Volkssturm has emerged from the rubble in the form of real live boys and old men.”

    Next up from NYT: ” The Great Patriotic Heroes of the Atlantic Council”

  89. George says:
    @Mr. Anon

    The problem with her discussion is she does not mention Russiagate+special prosecutor. Appointing the special prosecutor, apparently at the advice of AG Jeff Sessions, ruined the first few years. I personally thought Trump’s release of a tiny bit JFK assassination stuff was a hint. Oswald was not a lone wolf gunman, who knew?

  90. @Lot

    If the current railroading takes Trump out, the governing establishment will have escalation dominance over future Presidents. It will have won unreservedly.

    After that, US policy will continue to be support for the status quo governing establishment .
    The status quo is urban dominance of politics. Cities are already supported entirely by political coercion throughout the West at the cost of industrialization and of the hinterland population. Continuation of the status quo thus implies further de-industrialization and increased poverty for hinterlands.
    These trends (which imply steadily decreasing resource flow to urban areas as revenue sources are mined out) will be continued until the urban areas become uninhabitable through decay of infrastructure and the political instability of their non-Western populations — 10 to 15 years, at a guess.
    These trends will be accompanied by a large increase in number and intensity of regional conflicts, and a possible very large conflict between the People’s Republic of China (PRC) and the areas that provide it with resources (excluding Russia, which is a peer adversary for the PRC).

    Counterinsurgency

  91. peterike says:
    @Boethiuss

    It’s not just the transcript at this point, but they’ve got direct, on-the-record testimony from the principals involved, specifically the ambassador to Ukraine, and of course all the other evidence they had before.

    The transcript of the phone call absolutely exonerates Trump. The other “testimony” of the “principals” crumbles as fast as it “leaks” out. And in any case, Trump is the friggin’ President. He owns foreign policy. He could tell Ukraine they can’t have whatever — money, weapons — because he doesn’t like the color of their President’s tie. It’s his call, absolutely and without question. It says so right there in Muh Constitution.

    Also, this whole pile of dog turds is based on an astonishing assumption. As The Narrative would have it, Trump can’t ask the Ukraine to investigate a “political opponent.” Lol! So here we have mountains of evidence that Biden and Biden Jr. were taking massive bribes, but Trump can’t investigate that because, ummm, Biden is running for President. He’s a “political opponent”! So basically, if Biden goes out and shoots up a schoolroom, nothing can happen to him because he’s running for President.

    That is literally the line of thinking pimps like you are trying to get away with. I think I’m going to announce I’m running against Trump, and then go rob some banks. What can they do to me? I’m sacred and protected. I’m a Political Opponent, and arresting me would be “interfering in our sacred elections.”

  92. WJ says:
    @Lot

    Is this parody?

    If Trump is not the head of the ticket, almost any Democrat beats the neocon never met an ME war he didn’t like -Pence Pence is also pro Chamber of Commerce so here comes a nation wrecking amnesty.

    Trump being impeached and acquitted (bet on that ) is the best thing that could happen to him.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  93. El Dato says:
    @Lot

    A Trump resignation for health issues that gave us Pence I think Pence would be stronger.

    You cannot just stay “stronger” without qualification. Stronger in What? Body odour maybe?

    Pence looks good at the pulpit but otherwise that guy should make the hairs stand on end.

  94. Hail says: • Website
    @Dan Hayes

    The PBS interview is definitely worth watching. The interviewer, a PBS’er, is remarkably fair. He wants to get her ideas, not challenge or confront her. Well done overall.

    A two-part Coulter interview (45m and 45m) with a sympathetic right-wing talk radio host, Eric Metaxas, recorded on October 11, is also worth viewing:

    [MORE]

    Some text excerpts from that interview I transcripted are at a previous iSteve thread (comment-106).

  95. WJ says:
    @Art Deco

    Just 2 trillion dollars. I feel so much better.

  96. El Dato says:
    @Art Deco

    “What is Google?”

    The US is like a stupid plumber who pretends the only cost of the repair work is the gas for the trip and the piece of pipe used.

    https://www.csis.org/analysis/americas-military-spending-and-uncertain-costs-its-wars-need-transparent-reporting

    The U.S. government, however, has never developed a convincing method of reporting on the cost of the wars, and its estimates are a confusing morass of different and conflicting Departmental, Agency, and other government reporting that leave major gaps in key areas during FY2001-FY2019.

    As noted earlier, the report shows that U.S. State Department has provided virtually no meaningful recent unclassified reporting on its total level of war-related cost and activity –although the Lead Inspector General for Overseas Contingency Operations has for at least FY2019. The State Department budget justification document does not provide any basis for know what plans exist to deal with the aid and other efforts necessary to deal with the civil side of U.S. wars.

    Other analysts, however, have raised all too valid issues regarding what should or should not be included in estimating the true cost of war and such analyses have reached totals in excess of $6 trillion for FY2001-FY2019. The fact the Federal government does not include such costs should be a subject of public and Congressional debate, and some costs like the full wartime medical costs of Veterans should be made a formal and explicit part of funding U.S. combat operations. At the same time, some estimates of other costs seem questionable, and it is not clear that war costs deserve to be singled out for their potential impact on the national debt and interest payments,

    Veterans will be dead soon, who cares about them?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  97. WJ says:
    @Lagertha

    It’s gotten to the point with me , that if the jihadis sent a plane into a NYC building, I would just think there goes a bunch lefties that probably hate me. That post 9/11 feeling is long gone , at least for me it is.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    , @Lagertha
    , @Lagertha
  98. J.Ross says:
    @Art Deco

    So Honduras is a healthy state and Nicaragua has rebounded from the regime crackdown a year ago?

  99. fnn says:
    @Lot

    Policies aside, Trump has the kind of abrasive personality that Israelis are very familiar with.

  100. robshotz says:
    @Bragadocious

    Pierre the idiot couldn’t even bring down Candy Crowley. He is finished.

  101. J.Ross says:
    @Boethiuss

    If the “Trump-ist” movement is ever going to find legs*, Donnie himself has to go.

    The most succinct Boethius comment.

    *We won a presidential election everyone said we couldn’t win, what Cyd Charisse gymnastic fetsishism do you want from our legs?

    • Replies: @Boethiuss
  102. … this brouhaha is about the President delaying foreign aid payments to Ukraine.

    I thought it was about trying to blackmail Ukraine into talking trash about the Bidens–which all seems really unnecessary.

    It is a matter of record that the Bidens were milking the Ukrainians for cash in exchange for influence/access, so that at the very least Burisma-a private company–could give the appearance of having White House access on its letterhead.

    It is a bit like a retired doctor of my acquaintance who boasted of being paid $5000 per month to have his name on the letterhead of a pill mill “pain clinic”. (He avoided eventual conviction by pleading dementia!)

    It would surely have been better to take the high road and the only interesting point is that Trump’s continued focus on blagging Biden seems to indicate that perhaps he is less demented than he seems.

  103. @Boethiuss

    Who’s our other choice, now?

    • Replies: @Boethiuss
  104. @Art Deco

    Michael Dukakis might be described as fairly idea-rich

    The US political system does not seem to lend itself to producing philosopher kings.

    Even Kennedy seems to have been largely a product of his speechwriters and it is widely believed that his Pulitzer Prize-winning book Profiles In Courage was ghostwritten.

    The usual procedure historically has been for military leaders of the last major war to form juntas until their generation dies out.

    The Vietnam war was somewhat unsuccessful in producing political leaders, with Kerry and McCain being the best of the pack, so now we are probably moving into an era of Internet celebrities.

    It is noticeable that this time around the Democrats have second tier candidates like Buttigieg and Gabbard who have military experience–although not as generals–who are probably really running for national office next time around, or the time after that.

  105. Tex says:
    @Charon

    Trump’s a big fat ugly target but that doesn’t mean TPTB will suddenly shift course and stop their war against us “WCA” type people just because they succeed in deposing him. It’s much more likely the taste of blood will cause their hideous campaigns to intensify.

    Yep. Wishing for Pence to take the reins of power and magically make all well again, or marginally better or whatever it is, is pretty much delusional. Aside from the utter bad faith of the Dems, MSM, GOP establishment, and Deep State, you have to imagine that a VP taking the reins after his president is removed from office amidst a crushing constitutional crisis won’t be trod on like a doormat. Perhaps watching Trump get destroyed will turn GOP congressmen into hard-core immigration restrictionists?

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
  106. LondonBob says:
    @Lot

    Pence is better on Israel? That Syria withdrawal has certainly got the Israel firsters fuming.

  107. @Clyde

    Unlike Sean Hannity, I’m pretty sure Rush gets it on some issues a lot more than he lets on. Every once in a while it comes out. I first heard him when he came to WABC in NY before he went national, and he was more willing to address racial issues then, like the station’s star performer Bob Grant. Now he steers clear of them, possibly as a result of seeing Grant’s fate.

    There are other areas where Rush drives me nuts and I have to switch him off. All the gushing about Apple makes me wonder if they have him on retainer. Also, too much rah-rah about capitalism, the idiotic claim that free-market healthcare is viable, an unwillingness to acknowledge the disaster that was the George W. Bush presidency and the Iraq war, and too dismissive about environmental concerns (sure there are wackos, but there are legitimate issues as well).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Clyde
    , @MarkinLA
  108. El Dato says:
    @Kronos

    Well, everybody is called Pierre. (Because it’s the “Âge de Pierre” – The stone age, which also means “Pierre’s era”)

    But then they call up THAT Pierre, and he’s missing.

  109. @Cagey Beast

    Watch out for 7 days next May (or is it this May? Seinfeld fans help me out here).

  110. Jack D says:
    @Hail

    IIRC, the President gets an intelligence briefing from the CIA every day.

    In every late stage empire it’s common for the Emperor to end up being the hostage or the pawn of the Palace Eunuchs.

    This is related to “Pournelle’s iron law of bureaucracy”: In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @Justvisiting
  111. BenKenobi says:
    @El Dato

    host actual Nazi rock concerts and field actual Nazi death squads?

    —>WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?<—

  112. @Lot

    This is the kind of thinking that is the engine behind this entire impeachment circus. Ds know that alot of Rs who should know better are dreaming of President Pence.

    If you betray Trump and the American electorate to side with these clowns and thugs there not only won’t be a President Pence, there won’t be a Republican Party. Pence 2020 will make Ford 1976 look like Reagon 1984.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @sayless
  113. El Dato says:
    @Jack D

    They get in control doubly faster if they manage the information channels and have the metal splinter throwing devices.

  114. Jack D says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    The usual procedure historically has been for military leaders of the last major VICTORIOUS war to form juntas until their generation dies out.

    Everyone loves a winner. Nobody loves a loser. If we had taken Hanoi, maybe there would have been a President Westmoreland.

    Dems keep running ex-military because it insulates them from the charge that Leftists are not patriotic, because they usually aren’t. On another thread, there was that SJW lady from Washington state who said that her role models in life were the “No No Boys” who were the Japanese Americans during WWII who refused to swear loyalty to or fight for the United States. See also all the NFL football players who “take a knee” during the national anthem. The Leftist slogan is “America was never great to begin with”.

  115. Jack D says:
    @Desiderius

    Agree. A President Pence would not only demoralize large parts of the Trump base, he would also be seen as tainted by Trump for many of the undecided. Meanwhile Dems would be energized by the sight of Trump’s blood. Not only would Pence lose but he would likely take the Senate with him and the new Dem controlled trifecta would be considerably to the left of any Dem government since FDR.

    Trump is a flawed man in many ways but there is really no alternative to him at this point. Anyone who thinks there is is fooling himself.

    They are going to have to do an impeachment trial in the Senate in order to protect the seats of RINOs like that lady Senator from Maine. It will (hopefully) turn out like the Kavanaugh hearings where there is a big show on TV and the CNN guys are orgasmic with joy (“Today’s testimony is surely a fatal blow to the Trump Presidency!” – every day for a month) but in the end it means nothing. Trump will take surviving an impeachment trial as vindication.

  116. @Jack D

    “Pournelle’s iron law of bureaucracy”: In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control

    Great point–and there is also a demographic factor that I have not seen discussed that much.

    These mid to higher level career bureaucrats are mostly baby-boomers. They have been working for .gov for twenty, thirty, even forty years. Their network of contacts is wide and deep–and they have a long history of alliances over a wide variety of issues.

    They can pick up the phone and get the “impossible” done–they know how to “hack” the bureaucracy, Congress, the media, lobbyists, non-profits etc.

    They know they are the rulers–what baffles them is why Trump can’t figure it out!

  117. @Jonathan Mason

    Dukakis was neither. Not close.

    Philospher kings aren’t really a thing. Disjoint skill set.

    Melchizedek is unique for a reason.

    • Agree: sayless
    • Replies: @FPD72
  118. @Jack D

    Trump is a flawed man in many ways

    I guess. I’m not seeing much evidence of that these days. Much more sinned against than sinning.

    I don’t think that caveat buys people what they think it does.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  119. anon[380] • Disclaimer says:
    @Boethiuss

    Hell yeah, if that were my choice I’d vote for Jeb in a heartbeat over Donnie.

    You wanted Hillary! in the White House that badly?

  120. anon[380] • Disclaimer says:
    @Boethiuss

    It’s not just the transcript at this point, but they’ve got direct, on-the-record testimony from the principals involved, specifically the ambassador to Ukraine, and of course all the other evidence they had before.

    Hunter Biden, is that you?

  121. President Trump should have taken my advice on removing the DEEP STATE government workers in early 2017.

    I had this advice on the DEEP STATE for President Trump in February 2017:

    The Deep State skunks who mismanage the American Empire are attacking President Trump. There must be a response from the Trump administration that sets a tone for the future.

    Andrew Jackson had the answer to the Deep State traitors who are attempting to destroy the sovereignty of the Unite States. The answer is the spoils system. President Trump must begin mass firings of all government workers who presume to be the power in the United States.

    FIRE THOSE DEEP STATE BASTARDS — DAMMIT!

    Fire every damn one of those treasonous rats. Don’t stop firing until that Rome on the Potomac is damn near close to depopulated. Do it!

    The Deep State skunks attacking President Trump are the same treasonous rats who push nation-wrecking open borders mass immigration and multicultural mayhem. They are the same Deep State skunks who push open borders free trade and transnationalism. They are the same Deep State skunks who push unnecessary wars and endless overseas imperial garrisoning.

    Fire those Deep State skunks! Remove those evil, treasonous Deep State government worker rats who want to destroy the United States as a sovereign nation-state.

    The Deep State is trying to kill President Trump, but President Trump shall kill it.

    GOD BLESS AMERICA

  122. Tlotsi says:
    @Boethiuss

    I’d rather be rid of you.

  123. https://www.unz.com/isteve/nyt-the-term-deep-state-is-downright-un-american/#comment-1791244

    I gave the big picture look on the DEEP STATE in March 2017:

    They say France has over 50 percent of its GDP related to government expenditures. The American Empire most likely is close to hitting 40 percent. The privatization schemes that have been going on mask the true extent of just how many Americans work for the government. If your company is wholly reliant on government contracts for its existence, then you should be considered a government worker.

    President Trump must begin mass firings of DEEP STATE government workers. That means the national security state and just about every damn government worker who is currently grabbing money from the American Empire. Of course, I ain’t talking about most of the cops, firemen and road guys or the US military.

    President Trump should clean house at the CIA and the other human intelligence government workers. President Trump should only trust the signals intelligence side of the national security state. And trust but verify with that crowd as well. FIRE all the non-technical bastards at the NSA and other electronic surveillance outfits that are leaking all the electronic stuff.

    FIRE these overpaid DEEP STATE government worker slobs who think they run the American Empire. Those overpaid bastards have been running the American Empire into the ground for decades.

  124. sayless says:
    @Desiderius

    Is there anyone here from Indiana who’d like to weigh in on Pence?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  125. Boethiuss says:
    @Kronos

    But replace him with who?

    After impeachment there would probably be a gaggle of Republicans running to replace him, just like there was in 2016 when he ran the first time.

  126. Boethiuss says:
    @IHTG

    Why don’t you go take a look at some polls of Republicans? You fight with the army you’ve got, GOPe man.

    That’s exactly right. Is the army we have better off with or without Trump? It’s pretty clear for me that we’re better off without him.

    • LOL: Justvisiting
  127. TWS says:
    @Boethiuss

    That is the funniest concern trolling I have seen. Either you’re a shill or you are a hilarious troll. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    , @Corvinus
  128. Jack D says:
    @Desiderius

    I’m not talking about “these days” – I’m talking about the last 70 years. The problem is that we have a real leadership vacuum – as flawed as Trump is and always was, Hillary was at least equally flawed (if not more so) PLUS she was also wrong on policy (and so were the other GOP candidates).

    I am willing to overlook Trump’s flaws because he is the best we are going to get on policy, but make no mistake – he is not a “good” person.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    , @Desiderius
  129. TWS says:
    @Pericles

    Damn right. And make trolls stick to a name and persona. No more letting duck copy paste from a gay school teacher or a married woman. Pretend to be a black dude all the time or not at all. It’s weak sauce when you’re a Jewish grandmother one post and an Eskimo on an iceberg the next.

  130. Art Deco says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Even Kennedy seems to have been largely a product of his speechwriters and it is widely believed that his Pulitzer Prize-winning book Profiles In Courage was ghostwritten.

    It’s been known for decades it was a Senate staff compilation and it was suspected at the time. I had a look at it when I was an adolescent. It seemed superficial and no clue why he wanted his name on it. The history teacher I had that year agreed. (He was a Democratic committeeman, btw). It has been known for some time that his senior thesis at Harvard was written by Arthur Krock, who assembled and revised a mess of his notes and preliminary efforts. It was later revised for trade publication under the title Why England Slept. Joseph P. Kennedy arranged for best-seller status for the book by having minions buy masses of copies and then secreting them in a warehouse.

    That having been said, employing a speechwriter has been common since the 1920s. What’s not common is Kennedy’s voice and off-the-cuff facility. Theodore Sorensen couldn’t give him that, and none of his successors have come close, though Reagan was quite fluid. Don’t know about Sorensen’s time, but detailed accounts of the Reagan Administration are explicit that his speechwriters were instructed to learn his verbal style and make use of it in composing presidential remarks.

    The usual procedure historically has been for military leaders of the last major war to form juntas until their generation dies out.

    Usual procedure where? As far as I’m aware, the only people you’d call military professionals we’ve had in the White House have been Zachary Taylor, U.S. Grant, and Dwight Eisenhower. None of them had a walk into the office. Gen. Washington was a planter and land surveyor whose time in the military was a series of interludes in a life devoted to other things (same true of other Generals in office e.g. Harrison, Jackson, and T. Roosevelt).

    The Vietnam war was somewhat unsuccessful in producing political leaders, with Kerry and McCain being the best of the pack, so now we are probably moving into an era of Internet celebrities.

    There was no general mobilization during VietNam. The ratio of military spending to domestic product declined for six of the eight years the war was on. The reporting on the war didn’t produce celebrity generals. The 1st Gulf War did, but Gen. Schwartzkopf had no interest in elected office.

    A history of military service was quite unremarkable for politicians born between about 1910 and 1950. I don’t know as you’d say the wars in question produced the leader. (To be sure, true in McCain’s case and Kerry’s case because their service was a crucial part of their marketing). NB, a critical mass of the public had ceased to care about honor in this sense by 1992. Bill Clinton was one of the very few actual draft dodgers to make a serious run for the office during the post-war period (Bernie Sanders was another). He beat a decorated combat veteran.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  131. Art Deco says:
    @Jack D

    Rubio and Katsh!t were bad on certain policies. (And, as a human being, Katsh!t is insufferable). In re Cruz, not so much.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  132. Jack D says:
    @Art Deco

    A trillion here, a trillion there – soon you are talking real money.

    Oh, it’s only been TWO trillion $ – well then, never mind. That completely negates what Trump said. Two trillion (and thousands of maimed and dead American boys) – that was totally worth it. Thanks to our brave sacrifices, Afghanistan is now a functioning democracy, thriving economically and politically – it’s another postwar miracle, just like Japan and Germany. The Afghan people have forsworn their crazy death cult and are now focused on building high quality automobiles and electronics for the US market.

    • Agree: S. Anonyia
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @Art Deco
  133. Art Deco says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    It is noticeable that this time around the Democrats have second tier candidates like Buttigieg and Gabbard who have military experience–

    Not sure about Gabbard’s service. Buttigieg was AFAIK a paper pusher with a brief posting. My spidey sense tells me that both Buttigieg and Cory Booker have benefited from a complete collapse of due diligence among reporters, who are little better than DNC press agents nowadays. These are the same people who filed FOIA requests to ransack Sarah Palin’s email box.

  134. Jack D says:
    @Art Deco

    I think he was speaking in a broad historical sense (e.g. going back to the Romans, including Franco in Spain, De Gaulle in France, etc.) and not just US history, which is relatively brief. Even so, while being a victorious general is not the most common route to the US Presidency, it IS one route and so the US is not a complete outlier.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  135. Coemgen says:
    @Jack D

    Trump is a flawed man in many ways

    What man is not “flawed in many ways?”

    It’s amazing how many globalist pundits use the sandwich-technique to try to undermine Pres. Trump. Geez, can’t you give it a break once in a while…

  136. @Jack D

    Like I said, I’ll need some concrete evidence of this evil you allege. It wasn’t customary to feel compelled to inject JFK’s ongoing adultery into every statement about him, why Trump’s long past?

    I didn’t like the guy either, but if you’re oblivious to the subtext of that loyalty oath they’ve got you reciting now might be a good time to get your head out of the sand.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  137. @sayless

    I’m across the river. He might be fine, but not if he gets associated with the Vichy Right.

  138. @TWS

    Anyone who thinks a Congressional Star Chamber couldn’t find a thousand reasons to impeach a President Pence raise your hand.

    (Hint: he is an evangelical Christian–and everyone knows they want the world to end in a nuclear holocaust to make the way for the Second Coming.)

    😉

  139. nebulafox says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    >The US political system does not seem to lend itself to producing philosopher kings.

    I think that’s a reflection of something deeper within the culture. Americans tend to be viscerally hostile to notions of philosopher-kings and guardians, much to the despair of the aspiring philosopher-kings and guardians.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  140. nebulafox says:
    @Desiderius

    I don’t think Trump is evil. People who think he is actually evil are tellingly spoiled, upper-middle class American progressives who have never encountered anyone or anything genuinely, truly evil in their lives.

    I do think he’s petty, intellectually shallow, easily distracted and manipulated, and venal as the day is long, and people who still deny this in 2019 are deluding themselves. That’s bad enough.

    And these traits make him depressingly at home in Washington, DC.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  141. nebulafox says:
    @Jack D

    We still have access to the strategic gravel deposits of Herat Province, though!

  142. AndrewR says:

    Ukraine might not deserve our money but I do hope this brings Trump down. He’s incompetent, stupid and frighteningly self-serving even for DC.

    • Replies: @anon
  143. @Achmed E. Newman

    if we had had more principled me[n] like Ron Paul in office

    This would require principled voters. Good luck with that one.

  144. Art Deco says:
    @Jack D

    De Gaulle was elected more than a dozen years after the war, and that was contingent on the 4th republic politicians having made a complete hash of things. Not sure you could identify in any other occidental country an example of a career soldier entering politics and acquiring anywhere near the prominence of De Gaulle and Eisenhower. The only one that pops into the head was that guy who was President of Portugal (who was 10 years old when the 2d world war ended).

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  145. Art Deco says:
    @Jack D

    You went to law school because you’re bad at math, and tell yourself it doesn’t matter.

    What’s your preference, Uday or Qusay?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Johann Ricke
  146. @Realist

    Well, he is obviously attempting to reign them in, hence the attempted coup underway. They wouldn’t be mad if he wasn’t thwarting them. Not easy taking on the most powerful entities on earth.

    • Replies: @Realist
  147. @Art Deco

    Venezuela is the only failed state in Latin America

    A certain major news organ would agree. The Washington Post Long March:

    Socialism doesn’t work? An emerging middle class of Bolivians would beg to differ.

    As socialist Venezuela collapses, socialist Bolivia thrives. Here’s why.

    Bolivia has the world’s largest source of lithium in the Uyuni salt flats. Have they been exporting it, or inhaling it? That might explain the unusual “fiscal prudence”– drug any potential protestors.

    FEE and The Nation both recognize the relative successes, but ascribe them to opposite forces:

    Why Bolivia Is Not a Socialist Success Story

    Bolivia’s Remarkable Socialist Success Story

    • Replies: @jim jones
  148. anon[171] • Disclaimer says:
    @AndrewR

    You need to be more subtle. Be more concerned in your shilling. This naked stuff won’t cut it. No Soros PayPal money for you!

  149. @Bragadocious

    My money is on Pierre Delecto as the guy who finally brings orange man down.

    I miss the Dr Delecto radio show. Digging up all those obscure and entertaining public records.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  150. @Jack D

    Trump is a flawed man in many ways but there is really no alternative to him at this point. Anyone who thinks there is is fooling himself.

    So if he unexpectedly died, then the Constitution would have to be rewritten to replace the President of the US with a committee, or would a military junta take over? Or would the moment make the man (or woman) and produce a new tenant for the White House?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  151. Art Deco says:
    @El Dato

    IOW, they’re muddying the issue because they can crank out some research papers on the subject.

    • Replies: @El Dato
  152. @Art Deco

    Not sure you could identify in any other occidental country an example of a career soldier entering politics and acquiring anywhere near the prominence of De Gaulle and Eisenhower.

    I suppose you are not counting General Franco and presumably you are ruling out anything before the 20th century, thus excluding Julius Caesar, General George Monck, Oliver Cromwell, Napoleon Bonaparte, and Gerry Adams.

  153. @Clyde

    Funny how Rush never said boo about that particular government habit when Cheney and W were doing the same thing.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
  154. jim jones says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Bolivia is an extremely depressing country:

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  155. FPD72 says:
    @Desiderius

    Good example. Melchizedek is unique because he was a priest-king, a role made impossible by the Davidic dynasty, since David’s descendants would be of the tribe of Judah, while priests were of the tribe of Levi.

    That is why the argument of the anonymous author of Hebrews is so ingenious; Jesus was qualified to be BOTH priest and king because he was of the tribe of Judah and his priesthood was of the order of Melchizedek, not Levi. Not only is his priesthood of the order of Melchizedek superior to the Levitical priesthood (because of Abraham’s tithe, a superior covenant, and a superior sacrifice), but it is necessary in order for him to be qualified to be both priest and king.

  156. Of course Romney chose the lamest French name in the history of that language.

    It derives from “rock”, and is manly enough in other languages. Particularly in ours, though not in the best sense for a prissy Mormon. In French, he could have gone for Zizi or Le Petit-Jésus.

    https://www.frenchtoday.com/blog/french-vocabulary/french-expressions-jesus/

    https://www.frenchtoday.com/blog/french-vocabulary/french-sex-vocabulary/

    Do jack Mormons use the same slang we do, or do they have their own?

    Let’s
    Do
    Something.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
  157. @Jonathan Mason

    Oh, and I forgot. Vladimir Putin held the rank of Lieutenant-Colonel in the KGB and after his retirement around the time of the attempted coup against Gorbachev, he assumed a number of influential governmental posts.

    • Replies: @Pilgrim786
    , @Art Deco
  158. Jack D says:
    @Art Deco

    You don’t know me. As it happens, my verbal and math skills are quite balanced. I took the SATs twice and the 1st time they were identical and the 2nd time V was 20 pts higher than M.

    TBH, I wish Uday and Qusay were still around and messing with Ayatollah Khameinei. If Iran and Iraq spent the next 500 years killing each other that would be fine by me.

    • Replies: @El Dato
  159. @Jack Armstrong

    Why are there so many blegs in MN?

  160. @Art Deco

    You went to law school because you’re bad at math, and tell yourself it doesn’t matter.

    My impression from Jack D’s posts is that he’s great at math (and science), but went into law because it pays better. For high g individuals, STEM is like entering a monastery. Possibly fulfilling, but a real waste of God-given talent if you want money and/or power. Outsourcing to foreign countries has further exaggerated this aspect, such that simply keeping your job until retirement has become an issue.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  161. Jack D says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Don’t give anyone any ideas. TBH, Trump’s sudden death real soon now would be very convenient for the Republican Party. Pence would be much cleaner if he took over this way and not the way that Ford did. He wouldn’t have to worry about pardoning Trump.

    If the Deep State had any real confidence in democracy, they would want Trump around to run against in the next election – after all he’s a horrible man and doesn’t deserve re-election. But they don’t trust the American people, maybe 1/2 or more of whom are Deplorable, to do the “right thing”.

  162. Jack D says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Not to mention the rulers of most Latin American countries for most of their history and many of the African dictators too.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  163. Toris says:

    After years of Al Gore, Soros and Biden types in Ukraine, all those dollars floating around, I’m curious about our noble diplomat:

    What is Tipper Gore’s maiden name?

    What is former ambassador William Taylor’s mother’s maiden name?

  164. Anonymous[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    Rush Limbaugh is an entertainer, and actually has said so many times. So long as this is Fact Number One kept in mind we can rationally consider the Limbaugh phenomenon.

    Otherwise not.

  165. @Boethiuss

    Oh look its “hey we gotta get rid of Trump” One-Note-Piano Guy saying the exact same f*&ing thing as in your 30,000 other posts.

    What Trump is accused of is impeachable, at least in principle.

    You write this as if what is and is not “impeachable” is defined. It isn’t. The Constitution only cites “treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors”. There is substantial debate as to what that specifically means. In reality, what is “impeachable” is whatever the House wants it to mean. Andrew Johnson was impeached for, among other things, firing his own Secretary of War which he clearly was allowed to do. Another article of impeachment was for “bringing disgrace and ridicule” to the presidency.

    We desperately need to get it back.

    There is no “we” Kemosabe, people like you are part of the problem. Actually you know what would be helpful – another post from you saying “we” have to get rid of Trump.

    • Replies: @Boethiuss
  166. Peter Baker, Lara Jakes, Julian E. Barnes, Sharon LaFraniere, Edward Wong. These are the kind of Junior Spy Cadets CIA doesn’t even need to bribe to use like Charmin. The Times hires some other-directed achievement bot, an excellent sheep trained to please in a brand-name school. CIA gets some analyst from the chairborne division to give the goggle-eyed naifs a portentous phone call in his best deep-throat voice. It makes them feel like big shots. It never occurs to these apple-polishing suckups to check with any independent observer. They would be scared to talk to any such observer. They’re still trying to get straight As. You can’t buy or blackmail that pathetic eagerness to please. Tools like them are born, not made.

  167. Art Deco says:
    @Jack D

    There’s been almost nothing in the way of inter-state warfare in Latin America since 1885.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  168. El Dato says:
    @Art Deco

    Because we suddenly have to trust the State on its numbers and its economic precision? Regarding a war that’s been going on for 20 years. That’s the State that cannot get the Pentagon to issue a valid budget or budgeted the Iraq invasion at around USD 2 billion/month, i.e. 0.5 trillion now.

    Suit yourself.

    Trump Derangement Syndrome is like glial cancer, only bluer.

  169. Art Deco says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    thus excluding Julius Caesar, General George Monck, Oliver Cromwell, Napoleon Bonaparte, and Gerry Adams.

    Gerry Adams? A press agent for brigands, not a conqueror. Cromwell et al. were notable for succeeding at intramural warfare. Napoleon’s exploits were predominantly after he’d seized the government.

    • Replies: @lysias
  170. @Boethiuss

    Hell yeah, if that were my choice I’d vote for Jeb in a heartbeat over Donnie.

    Wow there’s a surprise. GOP(e) cuck would vote for a useless coward.

    Motto: “We had the old Bush and the dumb Bush, now lets try the Bush who speaks Spanish in his own home because he married some Mexican villager”.

  171. Art Deco says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    I suppose you are not counting General Franco

    Again, Franco was a figure in an intramural war. I guess he had some stature from his long campaigns in Morocco….

  172. El Dato says:
    @Jack D

    If Iran and Iraq spent the next 500 years killing each other that would be fine by me.

    I don’t know what you are saying here.

    What’s you bone in this? Are you Jewish or something? Want to have a piece of the rest of the promised land?

    Iraq is no longer a factor. Iran manages its near abroad quite well.

    > Uday and Qusay

    These degenerates never messed with anything except themselves.

  173. El Dato says:
    @Bragadocious


    “Pierre Delecto”, waiting for the signal from Russia.

    (actually, Vladminir Nesterov’s “Earth Listens”)

  174. MarkinLA says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Wasn’t it Dr Demento?

    https://drdemento.com/

    Delecto doesn’t get any hits.

  175. MEH 0910 says:

    https://warroom.org/category/war-room-impeachment/

  176. MarkinLA says:
    @WJ

    Pence is also pro Chamber of Commerce so here comes a nation wrecking amnesty.

    Yes, people forget that Pence was solidly behind every amnesty attempt when he was in Congress. He supported the Gang of Eight amnesty.

  177. BB753 says:
    @Lugash

    “Nameless, faceless and voiceless, the C.I.A. officer”

    I didn’t know the CIA hired mimes for deep covert work.

  178. Clyde says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    Rush is a shameless Apple fanboy and Apple nerd…But no. He is not on retainer from them. He just loves tech and being an early adopter, and not just of Apple products. He likes to brag about being an early adopter.

    • Replies: @James Braxton
  179. MarkinLA says:
    @Boethiuss

    You are the same fool that told me I just have to suck it up and kiss Ryan’s ass “for the team”. How about you take one for the team?

  180. Clyde says:
    @Art Deco

    That is a bullshit number. No one believes it. For wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Syria, Libya and more. Since September 2011, I would put spending at 5-6 trillion. No way is it the bargain basement 2.1 Trillion.

    Not to mention all our men killed and maimed. How about the continuing medical expenses for life, for the severely maimed. Missing two legs etc or brain damaged from an IED. These expenses are not in your 2.1 Trillion dollar figure.

    Here are the first two Bing hits>>>

    The U.S. wars in Afghanistan and Iraq will cost taxpayers $4 trillion to $6 trillion, taking into account the medical care of wounded veterans and expensive repairs to a force depleted by more than a decade of fighting, according to a new study by a Harvard researcher.
    Study: Iraq, Afghan war costs to top $4 trillion – The …
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/study-iraq-afghan-war-costs-to-top-4-trillion/20…

    US has spent $5.9 trillion on Middle East, Asia wars since …
    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/14/us-has-spent-5point9-trillion-on-middle-east-asia-wars&#8230;

    Nov 14, 2018 · The U.S. wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Pakistan have cost American taxpayers $5.9 trillion since they began in 2001. The figure reflects the cost across the …

    Author: Amanda Macias

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  181. lysias says:
    @Gaius Gracchus

    If Trump is assassinated or otherwise removed, there probably will be a civil war. And a lot of Trump supporters have guns.

  182. Realist says:
    @S. Anonyia

    Well, he is obviously attempting to reign them in, hence the attempted coup underway. They wouldn’t be mad if he wasn’t thwarting them.

    Why did he hire them in the first place?
    It is a charade…kabuki theater.

  183. Franco was a figure in an intramural war.

    Well, a whole slew of US Presidents were figures in two intramural wars. To the victors the spoils.

    For a time early in the Trump administration, it looked like there had been some kind of military coup, with generals taking key positions like White House Chief of Staff, Homeland Security and Defense Secretary to steer the mentally incapacitated POTUS, but this might just be a function of there being relatively few people at the executive level with the right kind of qualifications and knowledge willing to serve in government, having already retired younger than most people, with generous pensions, and being relatively free of the taint of corruption.

    Appointing an oilman as Secretary of State didn’t work out too well either.

    The only general recently mentioned as a possible candidate for the top job was Colin Powell, who actually got three votes in the electoral college vote of 2016, but I don’t think his wife fancied the accommodation that comes with the job and his misleading testimony at the United Nations in the run up to the Iraq War was probably something he didn’t want to hear about.

  184. @peterike

    As The Narrative would have it, Trump can’t ask the Ukraine to investigate a “political opponent.”

    Here’s what I would ask: If Trump can’t investigate Biden because he’s a potential political opponent and that would be interfering in the democratic process, why should the Democrats be allowed to investigate Trump, who is their actual political opponent?

    • Agree: Ben tillman
  185. lysias says:
    @Art Deco

    Mao had an illustrious military career, as did some of his successors.

  186. @Twodees Partain

    Rush tries to align himself with the views of his audience. Sometimes he’s a little slow to catch up. He still thinks everyone remembers Dubya fondly; not so sure that’s true.

    Hannity is the same. After Romney lost in 2012, Hannity thought the party ought to embrace amnesty, that being tough on immigration (were that only so!) was costing the GOP elections. He backed off that when it didn’t play well with his audience, though I think he has an alternative explanation to explain his change.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  187. @Reg Cæsar

    Has anyone ever been named Pierre Delecto? A Google search turns up no one, not even a French porn star.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  188. Corvinus says:

    “And just wait until the public realizes that this brouhaha is about the President delaying foreign aid payments to Ukraine. There’s nothing more sacred in the eyes of American voters than our national duty to pay foreign aid promptly.”

    Mr. Sailer is the gift that keeps on giving on this topic. He does just enough to sate the appetite for the toadies out there who believe Trump is “innocent”. But he cannot be honest with himself that a host of qualified, intelligent people regardless of ideology are conducting multiple, legitimate investigations of a man who for quite some time has been routinely breaking the rule of law out in the open.

    Of course, the NYT did NOT admit that the Deep State is “overthrowing” the President, but that is of little consequence to Mr. Sailer. He has to remain cagey on this topic, and it is clearly evident that he as read Seth Abramson’s two fully sourced books on this topic. You would think that Mr. Sailer would put his NOTICING skills to the test to try to substantially address the ongoing saga, but why risk being dead wrong in the end.

  189. @Lagertha

    And not just bankers. Think of all those DoD contractors wielding the latest products of the R&D crowd (wonder for how much MIT, CalTech, “Hahvahd” etal are into the pockets of the taxpayers of this once-great republic.). And when you build monstrosities like the Navy’s latest toy–the Gerald Ford-class aircraft carriers ya gotta justify the outlay, right? Which is why the shitshow never ends.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
  190. Corvinus says:
    @TWS

    “That is the funniest concern trolling I have seen.”

    Actually, it is spot on commentary. See, there are the 20-25 percent that will go down with Trump until the bitter end. They are a slave to their confirmation bias. They have actually convinced themselves that the mainstream media lies ALL of the time, and that the “Deep State” is truly working in front of the camera and behind the scenes to remove Trump by hook or by crook.

    The reality is that Trump and his henchmen have knowingly engaged in criminal activity, and they remain brazen and reckless because they know they have this support by a segment of the American population. Publicly, the GOP has hitched their wagon to Trump and have made excuses for him regarding his behavior. Privately, the GOP realizes there is a shit storm, and that he is ultimately a liability. As a result, the Republicans are making contingency plans–dump Trump and put in Pence–behind the scenes. Will they pull the trigger? Probably only if it is politically convenient for them. But, along the way, our institutions and our reputation takes hit after hit after hit.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @Ben tillman
  191. frankie p says:
    @Lot

    Lot is a single issue liar. He rants against mass migration, but his real single issue is endless support for Israel, a state whose politicians are waking up to the fact that the orange maverick clown may not be acting in their best interest. Pence, on the other hand, is a dyed-in-the-wool, fundie Christian supporter of the Jewish State. He’s already bought and stored by AIPAC. He’s not the sharpest tool in the box, so AIPAC loves him. They like their puppets easy to control, so that they can make decisions that benefit Israel at the cost of the US.

    Really, Lot, how could you go and delve into such big issues like higher taxes on the rich, regulations on Wall Street and tariffs on China. Look at your posting history!!! How could you be avoiding the big issue: endless war in the Middle East at the behest of Israeli interests!! Pray, tell us, Lot. How do you weigh in on this issue?

    Frankie

    • Replies: @Lot
  192. @Harry Baldwin

    Has anyone ever been named Pierre Delecto? A Google search turns up no one, not even a French porn star.

    Were you, perchance, expecting their Deep Throat?

    Pierre Delecto =

    Recoiled peter.
    Erectile doper.

    Creep loitered.
    Cede, retire, pol!

    Best of all,

    Re-elect. Period.

  193. @jim jones

    Bolivia is an extremely depressing country:

    That may be why a salt flat larger than Connecticut varies less than a centimeter in elevation.

  194. Boethiuss says:
    @peterike

    The transcript of the phone call absolutely exonerates Trump. The other “testimony” of the “principals” crumbles as fast as it “leaks” out.

    The other testimony isn’t leaking anything. That’s one difference between this and Russia. It’s direct, on-the-record evidence from people who are testifying from their own direct knowledge.

    And in any case, Trump is the friggin’ President. He owns foreign policy. He could tell Ukraine they can’t have whatever — money, weapons — because he doesn’t like the color of their President’s tie. It’s his call, absolutely and without question. It says so right there in Muh Constitution.

    Sort of. There are also laws of the United States, and one of them can say that Ukraine should get X amount of military aid for this or that. And Muh Constitution says the President has an oath to Faithfully Execute the Laws. Even then, the President can still stiff the Ukrainians, and it will get tangled up in bunch of lawyers and Congressional Committee hearings and get resolved in some way independent of impeachment. Except for the quid pro, that’s the icing on the cake against Trump here.

    Also, this whole pile of dog turds is based on an astonishing assumption. As The Narrative would have it, Trump can’t ask the Ukraine to investigate a “political opponent.” Lol! So here we have mountains of evidence that Biden and Biden Jr. were taking massive bribes, but Trump can’t investigate that because, ummm, Biden is running for President. He’s a “political opponent”! So basically, if Biden goes out and shoots up a schoolroom, nothing can happen to him because he’s running for President.

    That’s what I thought myself up till about a week ago, until the quid pro quo got locked down. For me, it’s entirely appropriate that Trump can call up the President of the Ukraine and suggest that Hunter Biden is corrupt and should be investigated. Others disagree of course, for the reasons you suggested, but for me it’s actually one of the more statesmanlike things Trump has done.

    It falls apart where Trump quits suggesting and tries to order (or trade) the Ukrainians into the investigation. The point being that Hunter Biden and the Ukrainian oil company he was associated with, hypothetically speaking they are committing fraud in Ukraine and violating Ukrainian law. It’s a secondary interest (if at all) for the United States but a primary interest for Ukraine. Therefore, if for some reason the Ukrainians don’t investigate, well we did our part.

    What Trump did is explicitly trade the foreign policy and/or national security interest of the United States for consideration related to his own personal benefit. Yes he did, and yes they can prove it, which puts us significantly beyond Russia.

  195. Boethiuss says:
    @J.Ross

    *We won a presidential election everyone said we couldn’t win,

    Lovely, and now Donnie is President what do we have to show for it?

  196. Boethiuss says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    Who’s our other choice, now?

    Pence will take over until January 2021, after that it will be whoever the party nominates for the 2020 election (who won’t be Pence imo).

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
  197. Art Deco says:
    @Johann Ricke

    For high g individuals, STEM is like entering a monastery. Possibly fulfilling,

    Median annual cash compensation is as follows:

    1. Lawyers: $121,000 (for those JDs able to build a career in law, which roughly 1/3 do not.

    2. Postsecondary teachers in…

    a. computer science: $82,200
    b. mathematics: $73,000
    c. architecture: $87,000
    d. engineering: $102,000
    e. agriculture: $85,000
    f. biology: $83,000
    g. astronomy / geology / meteorology: $91,000
    h. chemistry: $80,000
    i. environmental sciences: $80,000
    j. physics: $91,000

    3. Scientists: government, business, medical, &c

    a. Animal scientists: $58,000
    b. Food: $65,000
    c. Soil and plant: $64,000
    d. Biochemists and biophysicists: $93,000
    e. Microbiologists: $72,000
    f. Wildlife: $63,000
    g. conservation: $61,000
    h. forestry: $61,000
    i. epidemiologists: $70,000
    j. medical research, NOS: $95,000
    k. Astronomers: $106,000
    l. physicists: $121,000
    m. chemists: $77,000
    n. materials scientists: $100,000
    o. environmental scientists: $71,000
    p. geoscientists, nos: $91,000
    q. hydrologists: $79,000

    4. Engineers:

    a. Architects: $79,000
    b. Aerospace: $115,000
    c. agricultural: $77,000
    d. biomedical: $89,000
    e. chemical: $104,000
    f. civil: $87,000
    g. computer hardware: $115,000
    h. electrical: $97,000
    i. environmental: $88,000
    j. industrial: $87,000
    k. materials: $97,000
    l. mechanical: $87,000
    m. mining: $92,000
    n. nuclear: $108,000
    o. petroleum: $137,000

    Generally not as lucrative as law (ain’t rent-seeking wunnerful), but then you have to take into account fringes and working conditions. Pretty glam monastery, IMO.

  198. MarkinLA says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    He is somewhat tonedeaf as it relates to Jews. I heard him once talk about giving a talk at some hyeavily Jewish convention. He tried to relate abortion to the holocaust and didn’t get the enthusiastic response he expected. You would have to be pretty stupid NOT to know how that would play out.

  199. MarkinLA says:
    @Boethiuss

    More than if anybody but Trump was nominated. Hillary would have mopped the floor with the rest of the garbage the GOP put forward.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  200. @Art Deco

    There’s been almost nothing in the way of inter-state warfare in Latin America since 1885.

    They have met the enemy, and it is them!

    But don’t forget la guerra del fútbol, said to be the last war in which cavalry was employed:

  201. Lot says:
    @frankie p

    US military aid is helpful, but the Israelis can do the fighting on their own.

    • Replies: @anon
  202. MarkinLA says:
    @Corvinus

    How many times did you tell us that Trump was toast once the Mueller report was released?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  203. Art Deco says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Don’t think a spy’s a soldier, even if you give him a fancy courtesy title. IIRC five years separated the coup attempt contra Gorbachev and Putin’s appointment to a high state post. He was a most obscure figure prior to 1996.

  204. Art Deco says:
    @MarkinLA

    FWIW, they were all polling better contra HRC than was Trump, and Sanders was polling better than HRC contra all the Republican candidates. Hard to know how they’d have fared in a general election campaign.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  205. @Jack D

    They broke a sweat because they lost their meth business in Syria and now Trump is threatening the poppy fields in Afghanistan.
    What, did you expect the DeepState and the War Party politicians like Romney to make an honest living?

  206. @Boethiuss

    Do you work for CNN or are you just an idiot?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  207. @Art Deco

    Think again.
    Argentina continually builds up it’s middle class then Bankrupts them and turns them into renters.
    Check the top 10 murder capitals in the world. I believe more than 5 of them are south of the good ole Rio Grande.
    There is barely ANY civilization down there. There is economic complexity but we all know that is not the same thing.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  208. MarkinLA says:
    @Art Deco

    Trump’s margin in the rust belt came down to economic nationalism. Globalist GOPers were not going to beat Hillary there. The polls were meaningless since people were afraid to admit they were “vile racists” to pollsters. The only accurate poll asked people who their neighbors voted for. People were willing to say who their neighbor (actually themselves) voted for but not themselves.

  209. Lot says:
    @Boethiuss

    “ We can bank everything Trump did for us moving the Overton Window, while still eliminating the personal, political, and policy liability of Trump’s person.”

    I agree if there were a way to replace Trump without a messy and divisive fight.

    I appreciate Trump’s defeat of Hillary and Jeb and other good works enough I wouldn’t wish cancer on him to get this result. But a little skin tumor scare that turns out benign but facilities a graceful exit….

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  210. @nebulafox

    Where’s the venal? I think he’s probably Neuroatypical/ADD or something, but I don’t actually see the venality. We’re under attack by some very bad people and he’s trying to fight them in his own Idiot Savant way.

    Read what the Powerline guys had to say about his visit to Minnesota.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  211. @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    I used to think he was an idiot. He’s just on the other side.

  212. @Lot

    They’re acting crazy to bait you into thinking if you just got rid of Trump….

    Once he’s gone it’s back to the Ds being the normal alternative to Republican crazies like you. Trump gives difference splitters room to join us here where the best and brightest are.

  213. @Art Deco

    Generally not as lucrative as law (ain’t rent-seeking wunnerful), but then you have to take into account fringes and working conditions. Pretty glam monastery, IMO.

    My sneaking suspicion is that except for the truly elite, people who go into law aren’t typically the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree, whereas STEM people are nothing but. I don’t know if anyone has ever done a survey of typical SAT scores of JD’s vs STEM people, but I expect the STEM people are way higher.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  214. Corvinus says:
    @MarkinLA

    “How many times did you tell us that Trump was toast once the Mueller report was released?”

    Trump is toast. Over two dozen cases were spawned as a result of his investigation. Attorney General Barr hasn’t helped matters. Now Congress is appropriately investigating.

    If Obama had engaged in the SAME EXACT actions as Trump the last couple of years, you and the rest of the Alt Right would be chimping out.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  215. Corvinus says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    “why should the Democrats be allowed to investigate Trump, who is their actual political opponent?

    Because Biden is not the president, Trump is, and Trump clearly engaged in illegal actions as president, so he can be investigated.

    Besides, Biden didn’t do anything wrong, according to a former Ukrainian prosecutor.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/hunter-biden-did-not-violate-anything-former-ukrainian-prosecutor-says-n1059136

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Harry Baldwin
    , @BB753
  216. Lagertha says:

    Deep State have too many children=(list) that will affect their parent’s insubordination, their, um.. non- patriotic unbehavior & words. BE careful what you say.

  217. @Corvinus

    The reality is that Trump and his henchmen have knowingly engaged in criminal activity . . . .

    . So after all this time you are the only who has found criminal conduct by Trump. Amazing. So, what is it? What conduct constituting what crime?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  218. Art Deco says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    Think again. Argentina continually builds up it’s middle class then Bankrupts them and turns them into renters.

    I’m the one that’s doing the thinking here.

    Argentina has had bad economic policies for about 90 years now, the result of which has been slow growth and relentless loss of relative position. Bad policy is bad policy. It is not what is meant by a ‘failed state’, which refers to a global breakdown of central authority.

    Check the top 10 murder capitals in the world. I believe more than 5 of them are south of the good ole Rio Grande.

    Again, that street crime is a problem doesn’t make the country a ‘failed state’.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  219. Jack D says:
    @Johann Ricke

    It depends which STEM people and which JDs. Here is one ranking:

    https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/Occupations.aspx

    Lawyers rank behind MDs, college profs and electrical engineers but ahead of many other STEM occupations.

    I can assure you that people who attend top 10 law schools in the US are in general very very bright and almost all of them did well on their SATs. Putting aside affirmative action of course.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  220. Anon[293] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot

    I imagine most other Republicans, the biggest factor to consider on dumping Trump is whether it helps or hurts us in 2020. I just don’t know. A Trump resignation for health issues that gave us Pence I think Pence would be stronger.

    There is no possibility of successfully replacing the (at least nominal) nationalist to elect his milquetoast VP placeholder. Pence has zero chance to win in 2020 against a Democrat. The vast majority of the base doesn’t care about him nor see him as a leader. The next Right Wing President after Trump will be much further to the Right, not someone in Pence’s political camp..

  221. @Harry Baldwin

    You would but you can’t because you have no voice. Unless you’re fighting against that – and your President absolutely is every hour of every day you’re on the other side.

    • Replies: @Boethiuss
  222. Anon[175] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    “why should the Democrats be allowed to investigate Trump, who is their actual political opponent?

    Because Biden is not the president, Trump is, and Trump clearly engaged in illegal actions as president, so he can be investigated.

    Please.

    Ignoring your outrageous-to the point-of-hilarity hypocritical double standard for DNC associated, former democrat VP and a forerunning DNC presidential candidate:

    Accusations of wrongdoing lose their credibility during a clear coup attempt when the accusing official channels / institutions obviously have been corrupted.

    Stating that this has legitimacy is like stating that a law enforcement witness to a supposed crime has legitimacy, who is clearly engaged in an obvious and ongoing conspiracy to remove the accused from a particular position. As evidenced by the long time communications coming from his unit, predating that supposed crime, and a prior failed attempt to remove said target using foreign disinformation. The latter action which the aforementioned “official channels” (or institutions) of the corrupted system refuse to hold the accusers accountable for. As a clear example of the aforementioned systemic corruption that invalidates this entire charade posing as law enforcement.

    Take a break from your simplistic, detached nonsense and engage with the analysis of one of the only real reporters left in this nation with a shred of still-untainted journalistic integrity that other outlets can’t begin to sniff. And who, by the way, was in Russia the last time that tanks were rolling through the streets:

    https://taibbi.substack.com/p/were-in-a-permanent-coup

    Engage in low IQ / simplistic thought and propaganda at your leisure, but don’t fool yourself into beleiving that it won’t get laughed out of the comments section here.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  223. @Art Deco

    Cruz is getting there. He’s learning a lot from Trump.

  224. Lagertha says:
    @WJ

    However,the Bushes were responsible for 9/11

  225. Lagertha says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    I am supporting Trump: F*ck you idiots here, I am so surprised how stupid you are about world history in the 20th century. Americans really are, the stupidest people. So tired of y’all bc people die and all.

  226. Boethiuss says:
    @El Dato

    The reals scandal should be, why is basically the US taxpayer invited to pay US weapon manufacturers to provide “lethal weapon” gibs to a random assembly of oligarchic statelets that is getting nothing done in particular except demand euroshekels, complain about gas transit rights, host actual Nazi rock concerts and field actual Nazi death squads?

    Could be, but none of that changes the nature of impeachment as it is currently working its way through the House of Representatives.

    If you’re a member of the Russophile segment of the commentariat here, it works the same way. President Trump was willing to sell or give the Ukrainians piles of weapons that they were going to use to fight against Russia, but only if the Ukrainians were willing to investigate Hunter Biden and the oil company who was paying him, which obviously does nothing for us.

    • Replies: @anon
  227. ziggurat says:
    @Mr. Anon

    I love Ann Coulter’s passion about an issue that I’m really passionate about too. Yet, I think she’s a little too hard on Trump.

    It’s tough when the entire country’s leadership is for mass immigration. If you listen closely to the interview, she criticizes the MSM (including Fox News), all Democrats, most Republicans, including the top Republican leaders of the House and Senate, Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell. Also, the judiciary branch. She even said that the immigration patriot Stephen Miller is to blame, because he has been applying his influence to keep out other immigration patriots like Kris Kobach.

    However, she did not even mention the following who also support mass immigration:
    — corporate lobbyists
    — academia, think tanks, pundits, and entertainers
    — the entire bureaucracy, intelligence agencies, and the deep state
    — foreign governments and foreign citizens, who for some reason are allowed to lobby
    — activist organizations like Pueblo Sin Fronteras and the Open Society

    With so much of the establishment in favor of mass immigration, it may just be hard to find the staff who are authentically committed to reduced immigration, with all the requisite credentials. And by the way, Ann said in the interview she does not want to work in government.

    On the other hand, she says if you hire people with a different ideology, they will deceive and undermine you in clever ways. And then, she wonders why he hired family members. Well, maybe it’s because he wanted smart people he could trust, even if they’re not experts in government.

    Meanwhile, Trump has done some things. By threatening tariffs, he got Mexico to put troops on their southern border. He also eventually got emergency funding for the wall and it is being built. Also, his executive order was recently upheld for the ban on third-country refugees. Another recent executive order forces new immigrants to prove they will not be a public charge, which includes requiring they have health insurance. In fact, this president has done more to reduce and better regulate immigration than the last several presidents, perhaps going all the way to Eisenhower.

    However, what have the people done? We keep on re-electing politicians with a low grade on NumbersUSA. And how many of us are supporting NumbersUSA? How many even know what NumbersUSA is?

  228. Boethiuss says:
    @Desiderius

    You would but you can’t because you have no voice. Unless you’re fighting against that – and your President absolutely is every hour of every day you’re on the other side.

    What are you talking about?

    Just what are you supposing that the President is fighting for? Because in this world, the President is fighting to remain in office, trying to pad his bank account, and evade criminal charges for this and that. That’s what Mueller/Russia was about, hosting the G7 Summit at his hotel, that’s what impeachment is about.

    Hope you liked your tax cut.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @Desiderius
  229. Boethiuss says:
    @William Badwhite

    There is substantial debate as to what that specifically means. In reality, what is “impeachable” is whatever the House wants it to mean.

    That’s right. But whatever it means on some abstract Mt Olympus, it obviously includes trading off the foreign policy of the United States and the assets of the Treasury for personal political gain that’s got nothing to do with the price of tea in China related to the actual responsibilities of the President. And that’s exactly what Trump did here.

  230. @Jack D

    It depends which STEM people and which JDs. Here is one ranking:

    https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/Occupations.aspx

    The data comes from the following essay:

    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/6495/6da01af7fbcf998ed8e572c380ced87466c4.pdf

    That essay suggests that IQ plays a role in occupational success principally because of how it (through the parents) influences school selection. In other words, intelligent parents pick good schools for their kids. It would not surprise me if the author was not particularly careful about his data sources.

  231. @Boethiuss

    Indeed we did. Made our family formation affordable. Having the time of our lives with our two-year-old twins.

    In related news, go fuck yourself.

  232. @Corvinus

    If what Hunter Biden did didn’t violate any laws, then the law is an ass. Can you at least agree on that? Any reasonable objective person would say that what Hunter did, and what Biden either set up for him or turned a blind eye to, stinks to high heaven.

    Also, if it weren’t for political opposition, no corrupt politician in this country would ever get investigated.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  233. @Art Deco

    Pretty glam monastery, IMO.

    But still a monastery. You can’t live any other kind of life and be functional in engineering. Just too much to learn and think about.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    , @nebulafox
  234. Corvinus says:
    @Anon

    Except there is no coup taking place and no obvious and ongoing conspiracy. You are simply rinse and repeating the Fox News narrative. Feel free to engage in low IQ/simplistic thought and propaganda at your leisure, remaining a slave to your confirmation bias.

  235. Corvinus says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    “Any reasonable objective person would say that what Hunter did, and what Biden either set up for him or turned a blind eye to, stinks to high heaven.”

    Again, you assume that the Bidens were engaging in corruption. Moreover, something that “stinks to high heaven” may not be necessarily unlawful.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
  236. Corvinus says:
    @Ben tillman

    “So after all this time you are the only who has found criminal conduct by Trump.”

    Actually, it was Mueller, the two dozen or so ongoing investigations, and the House and Senate inquiries.

    “So, what is it? What conduct constituting what crime?”

    Several, had you been paying attention to the news. For starters, Taylor, Cooper, Yovanovitch, the CIA whistleblower, and Trump himself—via a memo detailing his Zelensky call—confirm an impeachable violation of 18 U.S.C. § 201(b)(2)(A).

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/201

    Under the law, even “indirectly seeking to receive anything of value” in exchange for an official act is an impeachable crime. Note—even “indirectly”.

    • Replies: @TWS
  237. @Boethiuss

    Pence is a courteous, competent Midwestern governor who, as you note, is so lacking in appeal outside his State that he would not be nominated by the convention in 2020.

    After Trump, there’s nobody else. You can’t even come up with a name.

    • Replies: @Boethiuss
  238. @Boethiuss

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    , @Boethiuss
  239. TWS says:
    @Corvinus

    ‘Actually’ Mueller said no such thing. It’s in your mind. Trump is living there rent free.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  240. Art Deco says:
    @Counterinsurgency

    The two engineers in my family have three kids a piece (one has four grandchildren as well) and a mess of hobbies. Seems they’re living passably well. One’s recently retired (40 years with one company) and one’s now 65 and could retire at any time.

  241. Art Deco says:
    @nebulafox

    The aspirant philosopher-kings on our appellate courts have gotten away with gross misfeasance for 60-odd years. People are pretty much cud-chewingly indifferent (except for a modest population of Catholics and evangelicals who converge on Washington to protest one of the Supreme Court’s infamies).

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  242. @Corvinus

    How else can you explain that Hunter Biden got a no-show job paying $50,000 a month in the Ukraine while his father was the administration’s point man on the Ukraine? Wait, don’t bother, you’ll just provide some absurd rationalization.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  243. anon[182] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot

    Sure, we can see that easily…that’s why the IDF took out Saddam with no help from the US at all.

  244. anon[182] • Disclaimer says:
    @Boethiuss

    Could be, but none of that changes the nature of impeachment as it is currently working its way through the House of Representatives.

    Nancy Pelosi’s private star-chamber style proceedings have nothing to do with an actual impeachment process. It’s all theater for the gullible and foolish.

    • Replies: @Boethiuss
  245. nebulafox says:
    @Art Deco

    Heh. That’s true. But that’s also mostly because of what you noted: indifference, particularly to the judiciary which is controlled by appointments, not direct elections. It isn’t because there is a mass hankering for philosopher-kings outside of the upper-middle class. They have, in fairness, demographically exploded over the past few decades, but that doesn’t give them a complete lock on our politics, otherwise Trump wouldn’t be in the White House right now.

    Looking over the past 50 years, who have we elected as President? Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, Obama, Trump. With the exception of Obama, none of them won as an aspiring philosopher-king. Most of them opted to show that they fundamentally weren’t. It wasn’t because they couldn’t: Clinton certainly could have tried that, as a former Rhodes scholar and Vietnam War draft dodger.. But he didn’t, outside of the predictable minority demographics, mainly upper-middle class intelligentsia, that would have been receptive. On a legislative level, Senators and Congressmen still mostly go to almost ridiculous lengths to show themselves as “men of the people” when election time comes. There is still an existential strain against this kind of thing in American culture, however diminished, and it isn’t an exaggeration to see the goal of modern Democrats to further erase it at all costs.

    The only exception to the rule is Obama, whose fans in the media held him in near religious regard because he was everything they aspired to be: aka, a philosopher-king, complete with graduate student advisors. Part of this may have been shifting cultural zeitgeist. But it is still hard to see him getting the mass following he did, had Bush II’s Presidency not been such an all-around trainwreck. The Democrats could have run almost anybody in 2008 and they would have won regardless. Obama as a cultural phenomenon might have been the philosopher-king’s wetdream, but as a practical political one, he was reactive against the GOP.

  246. nebulafox says:
    @Counterinsurgency

    >You can’t live any other kind of life and be functional in engineering. Just too much to learn and think about.

    Physicists are (mostly) functional, so why not engineers?

    If you genuinely like using cool math and cool computer-stuff for a living, you’ll do reasonably well for yourself. Out of all the people with physics doctorates I know who didn’t go into academia (aka, most of them), I don’t know one who wasn’t able to obtain at least an upper-middle class salary.

    The issue I’ve noticed is hammering it into people’s heads that academia is a Ponzi scheme.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  247. nebulafox says:
    @Desiderius

    >Where’s the venal?

    Trump University? Or his real estate dealings? The man built an entire empire off of petty vengeance and cronyism.

    >Read what the Powerline guys had to say about his visit to Minnesota.

    Dude, calm down. Yes, Trump is corrupt. His realistic alternatives would have been, too, and Hillary Clinton or Jeb Bush would have also been more likely to launch Operation SYRIAN FREEDOM, which would be far more disastrous than any level of corruption. That doesn’t make Trump somehow non-corrupt or non-clownish.

    I have to admit, I do hope for Trump’s re-election on one level in 2020: the ensuing bien-pensant/media meltdown is going to be absolutely hilarious. But Trump seems as determined as the DNC to be as politically incompetent as possible, so as is often the case in recent American politics, it’ll be whoever is less noxiously radioactive next year…

  248. Corvinus says:
    @Desiderius

    Thanks for the combo gaslighting and red herring.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  249. Corvinus says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    “How else can you explain that Hunter Biden got a no-show job paying $50,000 a month in the Ukraine while his father was the administration’s point man on the Ukraine? Wait, don’t bother, you’ll just provide some absurd rationalization.”

    Poor judgement. He got a job with questionable people. But there wasn’t any evidence of corruption. Compare that to Rudolph Guiliani, who clearly was an unregistered foreign agent and who palled around with two men with known ties to gangsters to sniff around for “dirt”. Remember, the problem here is that Trump used backchannels and the withholding of funds in exchange for an investigation, rather than simply requesting one be made without any strings attached.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  250. Corvinus says:
    @TWS

    “‘Actually’ Mueller said no such thing.”

    I never made that claim. The reality is that his investigations led to criminal charges for Trump associates as well as a mountain of evidence of lawbreaking on his part.

    “It’s in your mind. Trump is living there rent free.”

    LOL, not really. Perhaps it’s the Jew in you to make that sort of statement.

  251. @Boethiuss

    now Donnie is President what do we have to show for it?

    You ceaselessly complaining.

  252. @Art Deco

    How much does a librarian make?

    The following categories account for 56% of the baccalaureate degrees awarded to women. The ratio of men to women is noted:

    Library science: 0.11

    Odd career choice of yours. Maybe you’re in it for the chicks.

  253. @Clyde

    How do you know this?

    • Replies: @Clyde
  254. Art Deco says:
    @Clyde

    That is a bullshit number. No one believes it.

    The people who can actually read the federal budget documents believe it. That doesn’t include people scamming around for career advancement or seeking emotional validation.

    • Replies: @Clyde
  255. anon[289] • Disclaimer says:

    By the way, I’m seeing an increase trolls and shills on other sites. It’s not just here. Perhaps something is about to drop and the DNCe has sent its mockingbirds out to prep various comment spaces. Or, well, it could just be the phase of the moon.

  256. @Harry Baldwin

    These days I view both of them as shills for whatever the party bosses want people to believe. I stopped with Rush in about ’98 and I never started with Hannity. Talk radio lost its appeal for me so long ago that I can’t even remember what it was like listening while driving, and I dropped TV news nearly 20 years ago.

    Reading about those two on the internet is the only way I even know they are still alive.

    • Replies: @Prez2020
  257. @Boethiuss

    Seek help before you snap and kill us all.

  258. @SFG

    “Seriously, there’s a case Pence would be more able to assemble a working team to enforce immigration laws….” etc.

    Surely you jest. Pence would collapse during the first week, because the democrats wouldn’t stop their assault if they managed somehow to get Trump convicted and removed. First, Trump is a lock to be reelected and the impeachment ploy wouldn’t even gain any steam until after the election.

    Second, Schiff is about to finish himself off. That performance of his where he simply made up a false reading of the transcript of the call is on the Congressional record. He will get himself removed as committee chair by his own party because he doesn’t know what he’s doing, just watch.

    If Pence took office he would melt down under the kind of assault that Trump has been shrugging off and laughing about. Pence is a 2nd rater. He doesn’t have the strength of character to do more than grovel and apologize to the democrats. He’s also disliked by GOP house members and doesn’t really have the respect of GOP senators.

  259. Boethiuss says:
    @Desiderius

    Bill Taylor was one of the culprits in disastrously operated US administration of Iraq in 2004-5

    What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

  260. Boethiuss says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    Pence is a courteous, competent Midwestern governor who, as you note, is so lacking in appeal outside his State that he would not be nominated by the convention in 2020.

    After Trump, there’s nobody else. You can’t even come up with a name.

    You’re misunderstanding the difference of what’s actually significant and what’s basically irrelevant. Cause let’s face it, taken literally enough there’s plenty of “names”. Eg, we could nominate Pete Ricketts of Nebraska or Alex Scott from Florida, or one of many others.

    What is important is the Sailer Strategy, and the key takeaway from the Trump Administration is that we can’t keep them both. And between the Sailer Strategy and President Trump, the Sailer Strategy is far, far, more valuable to us.

    This is a crucial long-term priority for us, but it directly helps in 2020 as well. The Democrats are are sniffing the KKKrazyGlue with all sorts of ridiculous crap that we could get traction running against if we had anybody but Trump.

    Medicare for All is the most prominent of course, but there’s lots of others for a good message operation. Eg, a week or so ago, Liz Warren came out, tentatively but still, for decriminalization of prostitution. This has largely flown under radar so far but it’s certainly something that GOP or issue groups could make ads for. But if it’s Trump, none of this is going to matter because it’s all going to be about Trump and nobody’s going to care about the flaws of any other candidate.

  261. @Corvinus

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  262. @Corvinus

  263. Boethiuss says:
    @anon

    Nancy Pelosi’s private star-chamber style proceedings have nothing to do with an actual impeachment process. It’s all theater for the gullible and foolish.

    Impeachment is a Constitutional prerogative of the House of Representatives. They have control (in practice Nancy Pelosi has control) of the mechanics of the process. Any process that leads to impeachment (as it looks like this one will) is an impeachment process.

  264. Clyde says:
    @Art Deco

    The word bullshit was unwarranted but your 2.1 billion is way off. There are other numbers on the internet in the 5-6 billion dollar range. Go argue against them if you like. I gave you two citations. Whatever….

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  265. Prez2020 says:
    @Twodees Partain

    I realized today that I had it off almost entirely- the past year. There was a local station that I picked up for about 2 years, and the host beat back some nutty progressive legislation. However he started inexplicably doing the usual cheerleading and mourning that is required on the airwaves so I quit almost cold-turkey.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  266. Clyde says:
    @James Braxton

    Limbaugh talks about it. He has a radio show.

  267. Corvinus says:
    @Desiderius

    Bill Taylor’s past has nothing to do with his testimony, which has been corroborated by several people. You assume that they are lying because of their association with the “Deep State”.

    Are you going to triple down with your gaslighting and red herring?

    • Replies: @Boethiuss
  268. @nebulafox

    Management likes to have “smart people” (their term) around, and is willing to pay. You generally have to give up the actual cool math and cool computer-stuff to keep the position, though, and a certain professional persona has to be maintained.

    Diogenes of Synope [1] wouldn’t have lasted in such a position, for what that’s worth. Nor would the Taoists:

    The Emperor has sent an Army unit to fetch Taoist Chuang Tzu back to the palace to be appointed advisor to the Emperor:
    Chuang Tzu: “There was a turtle who was sitting in a mud pool when he was captured and taken to the palace to be sacrificed there. It was, of course, a great honor but don’t you suppose he might have been happier in his pool of mud?”

    Soldiers: “Of course.”

    Chuang Tzu: “Then leave me be in my pool of mud and be gone.”
    [2]

    Why would anybody act this way? It’s like showbiz: it’s a disease.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] https://www.britannica.com/biography/Diogenes-Greek-philosopher
    2] http://www.tomthumb.org/112/some-taoist-stories/

  269. @Prez2020

    That’s about how it went with me. When any popular talking head starts telling the same tale that the MSM/politicians tell, it gets boring, not to mention annoying. I was participating in a forum with lots of El Rushbo critics and that forum was invaded and taken over by neocons. Naturally, the forum then became dominated by El Rushbo fans.

    Leaving it made me kind of discussion deprived, but I found that I wasn’t as irritable after awhile.

  270. @Clyde

    The word bullshit was unwarranted but your 2.1 billion is way off. There are other numbers on the internet in the 5-6 billion dollar range. Go argue against them if you like. I gave you two citations. Whatever….

    Those other numbers are wrong because the $2.1b number is compiled as other such numbers have compiled. If you start tacking on all kinds of ancillary expenses, then you’d have to do it for all of the previous wars. So the budget writers have stuck with direct expenses – the way budget numbers have been assembled in the past.

    • Replies: @Clyde
  271. BB753 says:
    @Corvinus

    So, the FBI investigating and spying on Trump prior to being elected, at the behest of Obama and the DNC was okey-dokey and fair game?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  272. Lagertha says:
    @Lagertha

    we have some time, but the Great middle and the Mountain States must secede. Otherwise: Communism.

  273. Lagertha says:
    @Lagertha

    we have some time, but the Great middle and the Mountain States must secede. Otherwise: Communism.

  274. Lagertha says:
    @Prester John

    exactly – even now, this site, scrambled my comment. – SHITSHOW NEVER ENDS.

  275. Boethiuss says:
    @Corvinus

    Bill Taylor’s past has nothing to do with his testimony, which has been corroborated by several people. You assume that they are lying because of their association with the “Deep State”.

    Yeah, this is exactly right.

    One bigger point is that Trump has legit been dirtied been dirtied by the deep state, more than once. He was dirtied by the cheap shots against Devin Nunes and the Steele memo. He was dirtied by the raid against Michael Cohen. He might have been dirtied by the prosecution of Gen Flynn, though tbh I don’t know all the details there. He might be getting dirtied by Adam Schiff in this impeachment episode.

    I care about that, but the American people Do Not Care if President Trump gets dirtied. ~shrug~, he probably had it coming. We can’t force the American people to care about what we think they should believe is important. And as a consequence, we have not gotten one micron or political or bureaucratic advantage from a reaction to deep state overreach against President Trump.

    President Trump and right-wing media bitch and moan about it all the time. It’s not doing any good. We should be finding more profitable uses of our time and energy.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
  276. Corvinus says:
    @BB753

    “So, the FBI investigating and spying on Trump prior to being elected, at the behest of Obama and the DNC was okey-dokey and fair game?”

    You are peddling a conspiracy theory.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spygate_(conspiracy_theory)

    The reality is that a number of European intelligence agencies shared information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians with the FBI. Moreover, the FBI had informed a bipartisan group of congressional leaders that it had opened a counterintelligence investigation into Trump, with allegedly no objections by the group. On the Senate side, the group of lawmakers at the time were Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr, R-N.C., and ranking member Mark Warner, D-Va. The House members were then-Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., and then-Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., as well as former House Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes, R-Calif., and then-ranking member Adam Schiff, D-Calif.

    • Replies: @BB753
  277. BB753 says:
    @Corvinus

    I see, in this case it’s different because orange man= bad! BTW, the Mueller investigation was a fraud.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  278. MarkinLA says:
    @Corvinus

    Yes, all those Russians that were “indicted” but who will never face charges. Wait, didn’t one actually show up and when the defense asked for their evidence in pretrial discovery, cried to the judge that they need to keep it secret and hidden from the defense pretending that it is an issue of “national security” when it really was just BS to keep the Mueller stew simmering.

    • Replies: @Boethiuss
    , @Corvinus
  279. Boethiuss says:
    @MarkinLA

    Yes, all those Russians that were “indicted” but who will never face charges. Wait, didn’t one actually show up and when the defense asked for their evidence in pretrial discovery, cried to the judge that they need to keep it secret and hidden from the defense pretending that it is an issue of “national security” when it really was just BS to keep the Mueller stew simmering.

    Right, remember back in the day when Mueller was Muellering, and the Resistance line was Russia was the end of the world, or at the very least the end of the Trump Presidency. We said, correctly, that the American people Do Not Care about the Resistance Russia theories. And Trump was going to keep on Trumping in spite of whatever Mueller claims.

    Well guess what? Just like the American people Do Not Care about Russia, they Do Not Care if Trump gets dirtied by the deep state. We breathlessly cite examples like yours and if we’re lucky a federal judge will say a couple of nasty words to a DoJ lawyer. That’s it. At no time have we ever got a micron of meaningful leverage beyond that.

    Just maybe, this isn’t the best pond to fish in.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  280. Corvinus says:
    @BB753

    “I see, in this case it’s different because orange man= bad!”

    The reality is that Trump’s actions trip wired several nations to go “Um, FBI, you have potentially a major problem here”.

    “BTW, the Mueller investigation was a fraud.”

    That would be Fake News on your part. His work led to a couple dozen other legal and legitimate inquiries. Is everything in your world “Deep State = bad”?

    • Replies: @BB753
  281. Corvinus says:
    @MarkinLA

    Do you enjoy Grey Poupon with your red herring?

  282. BB753 says:
    @Corvinus

    Deep State= Democrats

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  283. Clyde says:
    @Johann Ricke

    You are probably right on that, on the narrow costs being 2.1 trillion. But still, the larger costs of all our recent (since 2001) wars is in the 5-6 trillion dollar range. Here is a CNBC excerpt:

    The $5.9 trillion figure reflects the cost across the U.S. federal government since the price of war is not borne by the Defense Department alone, according to Neta Crawford, the study’s author.

    In addition to the money spent by the Pentagon, Crawford says the report captures the “war-related spending by the Department of State, past and obligated spending for war veterans’ care, interest on the debt incurred to pay for the wars, and the prevention of and response to terrorism by the Department of Homeland Security.”

    Nation rebuilding in Iraq and Afghanistan costs untold billions squandered….. I imagine this is mostly done by and under the State Department. So this would not be in your 2.1 trillion.

  284. @Boethiuss

    President Trump and right-wing media bitch and moan about it all the time.

    Does that remind you of anyone, Mr. All My Posts Say the Same Thing?

    We should be finding more profitable uses of our time and energy.

    Yes, please do so. I can assure you Trump is not reading your posts. Posting another thousand comments saying you don’t like Trump is not a profitable use of your time.

    • Replies: @Boethiuss
  285. Corvinus says:
    @BB753

    “Deep State = Democrats”

    More Fake News on your part. Do you relish being ignorant?

    • Replies: @BB753
  286. Boethiuss says:
    @William Badwhite

    Does that remind you of anyone, Mr. All My Posts Say the Same Thing?

    Uh no, it doesn’t. The difference is, I am talking about actions that we have the capacity to actually choose if we want. We obviously can dump Trump at the primary stage if we want. Depending on how the impeachment drama plays out, it could happen sooner than that even. Whereas the populist Right is bitching about things that the American people have proven that they don’t care about. And they’re going to be caring about it less in the future than they do now even, considering the events are receding further and further into the past.

    Let’s also note that since May, I have participated in a grand total of three comment threads here (ie, this one is the third). So the idea that my comments are unbearably tedious is obviously a crock.

    The reason that you find them unpleasant is that we both know I’m right.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    , @anon
  287. BB753 says:
    @Corvinus

    You’re blind to the facts. Did you read FBI’s Peter Strzok’s transcripts about Trump? I guess you’ll say he was a secret Mitt Romney supporter and not a Hillary shill.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  288. @Boethiuss

    We obviously can dump Trump at the primary stage if we want.

    You still haven’t grasped that Trump pulled down the GOP’s pants. You can’t put that toothpaste back in the tube. The “tell the base you want a restrained, sane foreign policy and that you’ll do something about mass immigration” then go back to being an invade the world/invite the world whore” model is permanently broken. If the GOP wants to win a POTUS election with someone other than Trump, you’re going to have come up with someone that is not a traitorous cult member (Romney), a low IQ closet homo that’s owned by a car dealer (Rubio), or whatever it is that Yeb! is supposed to be. The Republicans are completely worthless on the most pressing issue – mass 3rd world invasion – and everyone (except you) knows it.

    Let’s also note that since May, I have participated in a grand total of three comment threads here (ie, this one is the third). So the idea that my comments are unbearably tedious is obviously a crock.

    You have 129 comments so far in 2019. One is about Brexit (though you manage to fit in Trump anyway), one sort of defending the thankfully dead McCain, one acknowledging I was correct about you saying the same thing over and over, some assorted gibberish, and then well over 100 bitching about Trump. FFS, there is golf, baseball, philosophy, HBD, movies, the NYT’s lunacy…all kinds of shit is covered here. But all you do is whine about Trump. Hey maybe you can tell us again what you think about Trump?

    The reason that you find them unpleasant is that we both know I’m right.

    Your autistic Woody Woodpecker act is both wrong and tiresome. One might be tolerable, two is too much. Tattoo this on your forehead (backwards, so you can read it in the mirror): Trump is going to be the GOP candidate in 2020. Then go lay down and come to terms with that. Accept it. Lie back and enjoy it as Bobby Knight would say. And then, for the sake of me and everyone else, SHUT THE F*&K UP about it.

    • Replies: @Boethiuss
  289. MarkinLA says:
    @Boethiuss

    Well guess what? Just like the American people Do Not Care about Russia, they Do Not Care if Trump gets dirtied by the deep state.

    The American people are too stupid or lazy to know anything about all these “scandals”. They just parrot the nonsensical mantras the MSM brays out every day and repeat them brcause they are unwilling to admit they don’t know anything. Corvinus is a prime example. This will have little to do with impeachmeant or the 2020 election. Without Trump the GOP loses – period.

    • Replies: @Boethiuss
    , @Corvinus
  290. Corvinus says:
    @BB753

    “You’re blind to the facts.”

    Actually, they are clearly outlined in two books written by Seth Abramson.

    “Did you read FBI’s Peter Strzok’s transcripts about Trump?”

    Which is a red herring on your part. A person can do their job well for their boss while still harboring ill will toward he or she.

    • Replies: @BB753
  291. BB753 says:
    @Corvinus

    No, you did not read the transcripts: Strzok wanted to stop Trump before he was even elected.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  292. Corvinus says:
    @BB753

    “No, you did not read the transcripts: Strzok wanted to stop Trump before he was even elected.”

    Do you enjoy Grey Poupon with that red herring? You’re not considering the context. The texts were in regards to Russia’s meddling in the 2016 presidential election and Trump’s at that time possible connection.

    Read Abramson’s books, which clearly outlines everything. Even in a way that you can understand!

    • Replies: @BB753
  293. Boethiuss says:
    @William Badwhite

    If the GOP wants to win a POTUS election with someone other than Trump, you’re going to have come up with someone that is not a traitorous cult member (Romney), a low IQ closet homo that’s owned by a car dealer (Rubio), or whatever it is that Yeb! is supposed to be.

    You’ve tried this a few times. But it’s a red herring. I’ve got no obligation at all to “find” another Republican candidate who’s acceptable to you. There will be a primary process in the Republican party. If Trump is removed from office or doesn’t run for reelection there will be several other Republicans running. In fact, there’s a couple already. I’ll probably like some more and other less but’s that’s completely secondary to not being Trump.

    In fact, even winning at this point is secondary. There’s lots of things I don’t like about Trump but if I could squint here or shrug there I could maybe forgive them all, but one. Because in addition to all the other negatives, Trump is a loser and I don’t remotely intend to forgive him for that.

    If Trump is renominated he’s going to lose anyway so there’s no reason not to oppose him now. Because whether Trump wins or loses, the effectiveness of the Sailer Strategy is far more important for us.

    With the Sailer Strategy, we can see the Democrats go for Medicare for All, gender transitions for 7 year old boys, or some other bit of nonsense. Then as a consequence, the polls move in our favor, the voters move in our favor, the money moves in our favor, the energy moves in our favor, we can win a few rounds and put some points on the board.

    This happens because white voters, who were in the habit of voting Republican anyway, swing in our favor and nobody else has enough votes to matter. We can’t do this as long as Trump is President because white voters are going to vote against Orange Man Bad first before they look at anything else.

    The Republicans are completely worthless on the most pressing issue – mass 3rd world invasion – and everyone (except you) knows it.

    And let’s face it, Trump is a shitty immigration President, no better than any other Republican and probably worse.

  294. Boethiuss says:
    @MarkinLA

    The American people are too stupid or lazy to know anything about all these “scandals”. They just parrot the nonsensical mantras the MSM brays out every day and repeat them brcause they are unwilling to admit they don’t know anything. Corvinus is a prime example. This will have little to do with impeachmeant or the 2020 election.

    Corvinus is a special case because he clearly cares about Russia, impeachment, etc. The median voter might not.

    We don’t know if impeachment is going to succeed or not. But what we do know is that the Democrats can run impeachment hearings in the House of Representatives every day from now till Election Day and we’ll never gain a micron of political leverage for opposing them.

    The American people may agree with Trump about this or that, but they will never lift a finger to actually defend him and his prerogatives against the deep state or the Democrats. They’ve proven that over and over again. I don’t see any reason why we should be forcing them to prove it again.

  295. BB753 says:
    @Corvinus

    Ok, so you work for the DNC?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  296. Corvinus says:
    @BB753

    “Ok, so you work for the DNC?”

    That’s all you got left in your bag of (dirty) tricks. If you prefer to remain ignorant, that’s on you.

    • Troll: BB753
  297. Corvinus says:
    @MarkinLA

    “The American people are too stupid or lazy to know anything about all these “scandals”.”

    Continue to remain a slave to your confirmation bias. The truth will set you free.

    “They just parrot the nonsensical mantras the MSM brays out every day and repeat them brcause they are unwilling to admit they don’t know anything.”

    According to Who/Whom?

  298. anon[208] • Disclaimer says:
    @Boethiuss

    We obviously can dump Trump at the primary stage if we want.

    Who is this “we” you go on about?

    • Replies: @Boethiuss
  299. Boethiuss says:
    @anon

    Who is this “we” you go on about?

    We the American people, GOP primary voters, prior Trump supporters, Fox News viewers, iSteve commentariat, etc, etc. We can lance this boil now, to get a clean slate in the November elections and thereon.

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