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From the New York Times:

To Make It to the Moon, Women Have to Escape Earth’s Gender Bias

The Apollo program was designed by men, for men. But NASA can learn from its failures as it aims to send women to the moon and beyond.

By Mary Robinette Kowal
July 17, 2019

As we celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 moon landing, NASA has started Artemis, a program that aims “to return astronauts to the lunar surface by 2024, including the first woman and the next man.”

Although both astronauts have enormous challenges ahead, the first woman will face added hurdles simply because everything in space carries the legacy of Apollo. It was designed by men, for men.

Not deliberately for men, perhaps, but women were not allowed in the astronaut program until the late 1970s, and none flew until Sally Ride became the first American woman in space, in 1983. By this point, the space program was built around male bodies.

If we do not acknowledge the gender bias of the early space program, it becomes difficult to move past it. …

Temperatures are set for men, which leaves women carrying sweaters to work….

NASA took pride in advertising the space shuttle as being a shirt-sleeve environment. And yet, if you watch “The Dream Is Alive,” a 1985 documentary made by crews aboard the shuttles, take note of the thick wool slippers on Kathryn Sullivan’s feet.

In space, no one can hear you peeve.

Women are asked to compromise about seemingly small things in order to participate. Every time we do that, we carry those imprints forward into the future.

I’m looking forward to numerous NYT opeds about:

The Genderized Meaning of My Racialized Hair in Outer Space

 
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  1. >And yet, if you watch “The Dream Is Alive,” a 1985 documentary made by crews aboard the shuttles, take note of the thick wool slippers on Kathryn Sullivan’s feet. <

    Jumped both the shark and the nearby killer whale!

  2. No woman will ever walk upon the moon without a man taking her there by his hand. I’m quite sure that’s true.

  3. Nature had an article on the front page that made me laugh with the picture. It’s an Indian woman in a saree with her arms crossed.

    These young scientists will shape the next 50 years of Moon research
    Half a century after Apollo, Nature profiles five researchers who are shaking up lunar exploration.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02086-6

    What shaking up are they doing? Well the subtext is simply them being all young women, many of whom are also non-white or non-American.

    I just laughed, Nature keeps making these articles as if I’m to do shocked that in 2019 lady scientists exist. (Or from our old friend ‘Riley Black’, that people other than Jack Horner can do palaeontology. The joke being that Ms Black is actually much more masculine than the nerdy Horner ever was.) Who are these people manning all theses barricades stopping women in science?

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Nature had an article on the front page that made me laugh with the picture. It’s an Indian woman in a saree with her arms crossed.
     
    You know, articles like this remind me of what my Grampa used to say: "Quit cryin' or I'll give ya sumthin' to cry about.

    That said, I'm not so sure I'd be laughing if I were you.

    http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/sat2.png
    , @PiltdownMan
    Megha Bhatt works in India, very sensibly, and has not emigrated to the United States. That is to her credit. In any case, I expect she'd have to change her name if she moved here.
  4. Not to worry, moon misogyny will be there waiting for them

  5. @Altai
    Nature had an article on the front page that made me laugh with the picture. It's an Indian woman in a saree with her arms crossed.

    These young scientists will shape the next 50 years of Moon research
    Half a century after Apollo, Nature profiles five researchers who are shaking up lunar exploration.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02086-6

    What shaking up are they doing? Well the subtext is simply them being all young women, many of whom are also non-white or non-American.

    I just laughed, Nature keeps making these articles as if I'm to do shocked that in 2019 lady scientists exist. (Or from our old friend 'Riley Black', that people other than Jack Horner can do palaeontology. The joke being that Ms Black is actually much more masculine than the nerdy Horner ever was.) Who are these people manning all theses barricades stopping women in science?

    Nature had an article on the front page that made me laugh with the picture. It’s an Indian woman in a saree with her arms crossed.

    You know, articles like this remind me of what my Grampa used to say: “Quit cryin’ or I’ll give ya sumthin’ to cry about.

    That said, I’m not so sure I’d be laughing if I were you.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Those numbers actually show that men of all races scored HIGHER on the Math SAT than women of the same race. Talk about an own goal. Idiot.
    , @Altai
    But there's no complaining to do, that's what is so funny. Women are doing just fine in science. (Except maybe a lag in being less represented in older cohorts but even there, there are tons of women who are highly respected)

    But it also reminded me of the Bill Burr bit about the NFL airing ads telling the audience to do something about domestic violence after letting their players get away with it. Why is Nature lecturing me? They're the biggest journal in the world. If you're discriminating against female authors stop it!
    , @Counterinsurgency
    Telling women that they should do something they don't like to do is generally a waste of time. You'll get some who actually do what you've told them to do, but most won't. Women can work mathematics as it is now taught (as methods, algorithms if you will) better than men -- women have high average Agreeableness [1] -- but tend not to see the point of the exercise beyond conforming to course requirements, and tend to drop it for more important things once the course is done.
    This is not a fault. Right now industrialized countries are depopulating because of _low birth rate_, and children are being hurt by daycare and lack of a mother. In plain English, we're dying because women aren't _allowed_ to do what women want to do. Instead, we have an elaborate effort to convince women that only through not having children can women be happy. For most women, that means a self-contempt for (in essence) not having conformed to a propaganda campaign. For the women that make it to the top, that means 80 hour weeks doing something that's their second choice, or, once they see what 80 hours for the rest of your life means, not their 10th choice.
    Summary: The entire idea that women should abandon vital work that only women can do in order to displace men who could be supporting women doing the vital work has resulted (how else?) in increased fear and uncertainty and (what is apparently the ultimate sin) less happy women. With the minor side effect of making industrial society non-viable (since c.a. AD 1950 it kills off the population that maintains it). The program appears to be a bad idea. Slogan: Feminists don't hate men, they hate women.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits
    , @Kyle
    I scored higher than asians on the math sat and I’m not very bright. All this proves is that the average student of any race taking the sat is relatively stupid.
  6. “The Dream is Alive,” eh? I prefer “The Dream is Still Alive, from a few years later, because Wendy Wilson could get it.

    Mary Kowal, of course, no one would touch with a dead man’s … Canadarm….

  7. I’ve been hearing about NASA going back to the Moon for well over a decade now, does anyone think they can really pull it off anymore? SpaceX isn’t even bothering other than a tourist mission for a Japanese billionaire, that will simply zoom around it.

    • Replies: @Alfa158
    The previous date was 2028. The plan was for NASA to put a space station around the Moon first. So far the lander and space station are nothing more than sketches with no funding to even proceed with real design and build.
    Good luck with 2024.
    NASA does a good job on unmanned exploration by farming it out to people like JPL. The primary mission of NASA itself is the production of government pensions. I’ve been told by someone who has been there that standing in front of an exit door at NASA at 4:59 PM is tantamount to suicide by being trampled.
    , @George
    The problem with manned space is that the audience really doesn't care any more. I see almost no interest in the International Space Center and who if anyone goes there and what the might be doing. I doubt a moon program will generate much interest. Apollo itself went on way too long, Alan Shepard's Apollo 14 golfing on the moon stunt signalled the end. So my speculation is that the Apollo sequel will end up like most movie sequels, an expensive flop.
    , @HammerJack
    https://www.unz.com/sbpdl/franchises-from-the-nfl-and-nba-partner-with-city-of-atlanta-to-host-a-drag-queen-story-hour/#comment-3333820
    , @Counterinsurgency

    I’ve been hearing about NASA going back to the Moon for well over a decade now, does anyone think they can really pull it off anymore?
     
    NASA couldn't go to Toledo if you assigned them a driver, a car, and a GPS. The moon is further away than even Toledo.

    Counterinsurgency
  8. Ralph Kramden often talked about women going to the moon. He was ahead of his time.

  9. Isn’t ‘first woman on the moon’ sort of a joke all by itself?

    Once the world somehow gets an African up there, is the next white man ‘first gentrifier on the moon?’

  10. “The Apollo program was designed by men, for men. But NASA can learn from its failure[s]”

    Yes, we all know well the amazing story of the Apollo program’s failure to achieve its goal; just ask the hundreds of millions around the world who watched it all unfold live on television.

    We should be grateful to the thoughtful NYT headline-writers // revenue-officers for refocusing our collective memories on what can only be described as truly one of humankind’s greatest failures.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Yes, we all know well the amazing story of the Apollo program’s failure to achieve its goal...
     
    Indeed, it cratered.


    https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/NINTCHDBPICT000504417427-1.jpg?w=960
    , @guest
    Maybe they mean Apollo 13, which was caused by overly masculine and vigorous stirring of an oxygen tank. A female hand would've pushed the button ever so gently, coaxing it to release its pent-up electrical signal in a moment of sweet ecstasy...

    Excuse me, I have to look up Early 70s Service Module erotica.
  11. Men walk on the moon: women, minorities hardest hit.

  12. The current effort of the Corporate Media to degrade the Moon Landing accomplishment by Western Civilization (i.e. white straight Christian males) would be treasonous if they were American.

    Thankfully, their allegiance lies to (((other nations))).

    I only half-wonder if they’ll be pushing the “Moon Landing as a Hoax” conspiracy theory in the next few years. Likely by the time of Trump’s re-election.

    • Replies: @Hail
    Alternatively, they can just claim the real work was done by Black and Jewish scientists, whose genius was covered up by a White racial conspiracy.

    There was already an entire movie about this.
    , @Lot
    “I only half-wonder if they’ll be pushing the “Moon Landing as a Hoax” conspiracy theory in the next few years.”

    No, that’s Team Unz's Kevin Barrett:

    http://www.unz.com/audio/kbarrett_moon-landing-skeptic-unveils-true-identity-e-michael-jones-on-jewish-privilege-white-identity-and-jeffrey-epstein/

    He also works for the Russia-funded nutball site Veterans Today, which is part of a network of several Russian-funded sites with “Veterans” in the name. Here’s another that focuses in left-wing nutball stuff:

    https://www.veteransnewsreport.com/2019/07/17/communications-workers-of-america-leader-on-donald-trumps-racist-attack-on-congresswomen-of-color/

    If you’d like a nice overview of the Russian fake news and troll-farm operations:

    https://securingdemocracy.gmfus.org/a-view-from-the-digital-trenches-lessons-from-year-one-of-hamilton-68/
  13. But NASA can learn from its failures as it aims to send women to the moon and beyond.

  14. The USA will never make it back to the moon (let alone Mars) due to crap like this.

    Bear in mind the original plan for after Apollo was to establish a permanent presence after the manner depicted in 2001 A Space Odyssey. Leave out the monoliths, the Jupiter mission and HAL 90oo, and that was a legitimate extrapolation from what was on the drawing board.

    And leftist politics killed it.

    The Chinese, Russians or possibly the Indians might make it.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
    At least if the Indians do it they won't be unduly troubled by the matter of proper toileting in zero gravity environments.
    , @dfordoom

    Bear in mind the original plan for after Apollo was to establish a permanent presence after the manner depicted in 2001 A Space Odyssey. Leave out the monoliths, the Jupiter mission and HAL 90oo, and that was a legitimate extrapolation from what was on the drawing board.

    And leftist politics killed it.
     
    What killed the space program was that, compared to the promises made by science fiction, the reality was boring to most people. Yes, it was very exciting when Apollo 11 reached the Moon. But by the time it was Apollo 12's turn it was kinda boring. Let's be honest people, it's a dead rock.

    Science fiction promised us amazing adventures and encounters with fascinating aliens, but the actual space program gave us....a dead rock.

    Yes, to geeks it was all still terribly exciting. But to non-geeks it was mind-numbingly dull.

    And Mars is....another dead rock. OK, it's a bigger dead rock.

    Science fiction killed the space program by making space exploration sound so thrilling that the boring reality came as a crushing disappointment.
  15. But NASA can learn from its failures as it aims to send women to the moon and beyond.

    “Send women to the moon” — wasn’t that Ralph Kramden’s idea???

    “To the moon, Alice!”

  16. @Unladen Swallow
    I've been hearing about NASA going back to the Moon for well over a decade now, does anyone think they can really pull it off anymore? SpaceX isn't even bothering other than a tourist mission for a Japanese billionaire, that will simply zoom around it.

    The previous date was 2028. The plan was for NASA to put a space station around the Moon first. So far the lander and space station are nothing more than sketches with no funding to even proceed with real design and build.
    Good luck with 2024.
    NASA does a good job on unmanned exploration by farming it out to people like JPL. The primary mission of NASA itself is the production of government pensions. I’ve been told by someone who has been there that standing in front of an exit door at NASA at 4:59 PM is tantamount to suicide by being trampled.

  17. @R.G. Camara
    The current effort of the Corporate Media to degrade the Moon Landing accomplishment by Western Civilization (i.e. white straight Christian males) would be treasonous if they were American.

    Thankfully, their allegiance lies to (((other nations))).

    I only half-wonder if they'll be pushing the "Moon Landing as a Hoax" conspiracy theory in the next few years. Likely by the time of Trump's re-election.

    Alternatively, they can just claim the real work was done by Black and Jewish scientists, whose genius was covered up by a White racial conspiracy.

    There was already an entire movie about this.

  18. @DiogenesNYC
    “The Apollo program was designed by men, for men. But NASA can learn from its failure[s]”

    Yes, we all know well the amazing story of the Apollo program’s failure to achieve its goal; just ask the hundreds of millions around the world who watched it all unfold live on television.

    We should be grateful to the thoughtful NYT headline-writers // revenue-officers for refocusing our collective memories on what can only be described as truly one of humankind’s greatest failures.

    Yes, we all know well the amazing story of the Apollo program’s failure to achieve its goal…

    Indeed, it cratered.

  19. Mary Robinette Kowal is a science fiction writer and puppeteer.

    • Replies: @Random Smartaleck

    Mary Robinette Kowal is a science fiction writer and puppeteer.
     
    A science fiction themed romance writer, to be precise.
  20. This is what you do to a people you have conquered, you characterize their greatest achievements as failures to be moved beyond.

    • Replies: @Hail
    In related news,

    Israel's first moon mission ends in failure

    April 11, 2019
     


    Israeli team will no longer send a second spacecraft to Moon
    ‘The Moon is not enough of a challenge’

    Jun 25, 2019
     

    What's the problem?

    Is it that one can't ethnic-network one's way to the Moon?

  21. @Altai
    Nature had an article on the front page that made me laugh with the picture. It's an Indian woman in a saree with her arms crossed.

    These young scientists will shape the next 50 years of Moon research
    Half a century after Apollo, Nature profiles five researchers who are shaking up lunar exploration.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02086-6

    What shaking up are they doing? Well the subtext is simply them being all young women, many of whom are also non-white or non-American.

    I just laughed, Nature keeps making these articles as if I'm to do shocked that in 2019 lady scientists exist. (Or from our old friend 'Riley Black', that people other than Jack Horner can do palaeontology. The joke being that Ms Black is actually much more masculine than the nerdy Horner ever was.) Who are these people manning all theses barricades stopping women in science?

    Megha Bhatt works in India, very sensibly, and has not emigrated to the United States. That is to her credit. In any case, I expect she’d have to change her name if she moved here.

  22. To Make It to the Moon, Women Have to Escape Earth’s Gender Bias

    And more importantly, the Earth’s gravitational pull. It is very fortunate for women that they have men who can accomplish that task for them.

  23. Can you make a case for women being better astronauts than men ?

    Smaller, eat less, more agreable, better able to get along with each other in a small space over a long time ?

    • LOL: Kylie
    • Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager

    better able to get along with each other in a small space over a long time
     
    The hell you say!
    , @Autochthon
    Well, they are smaller and they do eat less, but so do male bettas—which, incidentally, are about as agreeable in small spaces together over long periods of time – and almost as qualified as women to be asfronauts....
  24. Women are asked to compromise about seemingly small things in order to participate. Every time we do that, we carry those imprints forward into the future.

    That’s one small step for person, one giant leap for gender inclusion.

  25. I just checked and we still have twelve living astronauts who have been to the moon. (Let’s set aside alt-theory for a moment.) There is still time for one of them to become an X-man and make history by retroactively becoming the first woman to the moon.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
    Now that's thinking outside the box! Brilliant
  26. By this point, the space program was built around male bodies.

    They sure do love that word.

    I remember when feminists complained about men “objectifying” women. Now the feminists do it themselves.

  27. @J.Ross
    This is what you do to a people you have conquered, you characterize their greatest achievements as failures to be moved beyond.

    In related news,

    Israel’s first moon mission ends in failure

    April 11, 2019

    Israeli team will no longer send a second spacecraft to Moon
    ‘The Moon is not enough of a challenge’

    Jun 25, 2019

    What’s the problem?

    Is it that one can’t ethnic-network one’s way to the Moon?

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    I think they wanted to transplant the Palestinians there.

    OT,but seeing a video of Epstein,with Trump,from 1992,he has a normal face. Tho very Jewish looking. Now he has a giant face. Has he been doing drugs to keep his libido ahem,sky high?
    What next,will he transition? Get sent to a women's prison...?
    , @Counterinsurgency

    What’s the problem?

    Is it that one can’t ethnic-network one’s way to the Moon?
     
    In short, yes. The "ethnic-network", or at least the "business as usual" method, was tried early on in the space program, and then replaced.

    The first probe to the moon, the Ranger [1], failed the first time -- equipment wasn't reliable. So: the FBI was sent in to interview everybody who had anything to do with the program. The FBI conduced long interviews, responding "That doesn't sound quite right to me" and similar. After the investigation, nobody was charged with anything, but there was a general consensus that another investigation would not be a Good Thing. There were also two "reorganizations". Subsequently, work was taken a bit more seriously by all concerned, and subsequent probes worked to specs. This from a talk I once had with a JPL employee at the time -- apparently it entered into JPL lore.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranger_program
  28. That old temperature thing. What do they want, exactly? Because thermostats can only be set one way at a time. Do we split the difference? How about a range between the ideal temperature for each sex, then have it fluctuate back and forth at random intervals?

    Or you could just wear a sweater when you’re cold. No one has to see your 40 year-old thighs and cleavage.

    • Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager
    There was recently a woman complaining on Twitter that she repeated "got sick" (and probably almost died!) during the summer from too much AC at the office. She was quite adamant that she should be able to wear a skirt without being worried about freezing at work, and if men are too hot "they can buy a fan lol!".

    Long story short, who the hell are we to question a woman? Just restructure your existence around her wants and then

    Shut

    The

    Fuck

    Up.
    , @HammerJack
    https://babylonbee.com/news/report-wife-cold
  29. In order to slip the surly bonds of earthly gender bias, one must reach Escape Velocititties.

  30. “Temperatures are set for men, which leaves women carrying sweaters to work”

    Better for everyone concerned for the men to just sweat profusely, is that the idea?

    • Replies: @Random Smartaleck

    Better for everyone concerned for the men to just sweat profusely, is that the idea?
     
    Then they will complain about being oppressed by male B.O.
  31. @DiogenesNYC
    “The Apollo program was designed by men, for men. But NASA can learn from its failure[s]”

    Yes, we all know well the amazing story of the Apollo program’s failure to achieve its goal; just ask the hundreds of millions around the world who watched it all unfold live on television.

    We should be grateful to the thoughtful NYT headline-writers // revenue-officers for refocusing our collective memories on what can only be described as truly one of humankind’s greatest failures.

    Maybe they mean Apollo 13, which was caused by overly masculine and vigorous stirring of an oxygen tank. A female hand would’ve pushed the button ever so gently, coaxing it to release its pent-up electrical signal in a moment of sweet ecstasy…

    Excuse me, I have to look up Early 70s Service Module erotica.

  32. If the experience of women piloting Navy ships is any indication, several women will have craters on the Moon named after them, craters that they created!

    • LOL: jim jones
  33. @PiltdownMan
    Mary Robinette Kowal is a science fiction writer and puppeteer.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJX6D6ViKxA

    Mary Robinette Kowal is a science fiction writer and puppeteer.

    A science fiction themed romance writer, to be precise.

  34. Hey, remember the crazy astronaut lady who tried to kidnap her astronaut boyfriend’s wife? Driving across the country wearing a diaper and whatnot, you’d think she’d come up in one of these stories, because it’s still pretty damn funny.

    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    https://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2007/02/06/nowak-lisa-marie-cp-2shot-b.jpg

    She was hotter than the hatchet-faced wife:

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/03/24/00/328193EA00000578-3506971-image-m-32_1458778320733.jpg

    To the topic: if a man had done this crazy shite – well, for one thing, unlike Nowak, he'd have served time no matter how much he cried. And his shenanigans would be invoked as an example of how imperfect male astronauts are. Of course, the episode will never be mentioned as evidence of how psychologically unstable females should be kept away from spacecraft....
    , @Redneck farmer
    To paraphrase Kinky Friedman, Mary Robinette Kowal is going to have to diaper drive up there and kick your ass!
    , @El Dato
    That was Coen Brothers material.
    , @Counterinsurgency

    Hey, remember the crazy astronaut lady who tried to kidnap her astronaut boyfriend’s wife?
     
    Put women under impossible stress and some will crack. Men can pretend this is funny, but they know it isn't.

    Slogan: Feminists don't hate men, they hate women.

    Counterinsurgency
  35. @Lot
    “Temperatures are set for men, which leaves women carrying sweaters to work”

    Better for everyone concerned for the men to just sweat profusely, is that the idea?

    Better for everyone concerned for the men to just sweat profusely, is that the idea?

    Then they will complain about being oppressed by male B.O.

    • LOL: Alden
  36. @Hail
    In related news,

    Israel's first moon mission ends in failure

    April 11, 2019
     


    Israeli team will no longer send a second spacecraft to Moon
    ‘The Moon is not enough of a challenge’

    Jun 25, 2019
     

    What's the problem?

    Is it that one can't ethnic-network one's way to the Moon?

    I think they wanted to transplant the Palestinians there.

    OT,but seeing a video of Epstein,with Trump,from 1992,he has a normal face. Tho very Jewish looking. Now he has a giant face. Has he been doing drugs to keep his libido ahem,sky high?
    What next,will he transition? Get sent to a women’s prison…?

  37. Maybe the people of India are standing up to Western gender bias and its disgraceful history of men making men’s rockets for men to put men in some outer space men’s club. Humanity has a chance to set this right.

    Oh no!

    Just take a look at 0:21, 1:05, 1:55, 6:40 and on and on.

    The women have been left out AGAIN! Will this nightmare never end?

  38. Lot says:
    @R.G. Camara
    The current effort of the Corporate Media to degrade the Moon Landing accomplishment by Western Civilization (i.e. white straight Christian males) would be treasonous if they were American.

    Thankfully, their allegiance lies to (((other nations))).

    I only half-wonder if they'll be pushing the "Moon Landing as a Hoax" conspiracy theory in the next few years. Likely by the time of Trump's re-election.

    “I only half-wonder if they’ll be pushing the “Moon Landing as a Hoax” conspiracy theory in the next few years.”

    No, that’s Team Unz’s Kevin Barrett:

    http://www.unz.com/audio/kbarrett_moon-landing-skeptic-unveils-true-identity-e-michael-jones-on-jewish-privilege-white-identity-and-jeffrey-epstein/

    He also works for the Russia-funded nutball site Veterans Today, which is part of a network of several Russian-funded sites with “Veterans” in the name. Here’s another that focuses in left-wing nutball stuff:

    https://www.veteransnewsreport.com/2019/07/17/communications-workers-of-america-leader-on-donald-trumps-racist-attack-on-congresswomen-of-color/

    If you’d like a nice overview of the Russian fake news and troll-farm operations:

    https://securingdemocracy.gmfus.org/a-view-from-the-digital-trenches-lessons-from-year-one-of-hamilton-68/

  39. @Unladen Swallow
    I've been hearing about NASA going back to the Moon for well over a decade now, does anyone think they can really pull it off anymore? SpaceX isn't even bothering other than a tourist mission for a Japanese billionaire, that will simply zoom around it.

    The problem with manned space is that the audience really doesn’t care any more. I see almost no interest in the International Space Center and who if anyone goes there and what the might be doing. I doubt a moon program will generate much interest. Apollo itself went on way too long, Alan Shepard’s Apollo 14 golfing on the moon stunt signalled the end. So my speculation is that the Apollo sequel will end up like most movie sequels, an expensive flop.

  40. @Rosie

    Nature had an article on the front page that made me laugh with the picture. It’s an Indian woman in a saree with her arms crossed.
     
    You know, articles like this remind me of what my Grampa used to say: "Quit cryin' or I'll give ya sumthin' to cry about.

    That said, I'm not so sure I'd be laughing if I were you.

    http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/sat2.png

    Those numbers actually show that men of all races scored HIGHER on the Math SAT than women of the same race. Talk about an own goal. Idiot.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Those numbers actually show that men of all races scored HIGHER on the Math SAT than women of the same race.
     
    Asian women: 590
    White men: 540

    Believe it or not, I take no pleasure in rubbing this in your face, but apparently I don't have any choice.
  41. Maybe because they wanted employees who were actually focused on science and not bunny slippers and air conditioning levels? Typical women, always whining and always putting their own comfort level before anything else.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency

    Typical women, always whining and always putting their own comfort level before anything else.
     
    That's a kind of rugged tactic for keeping women in shape for pregnancy, kids, and taking care of the home base. Rugged in that it works over a wide variety of possible husbands (women have to take what they can get for mates, same as men). It's not effective in a work environment, where women's ability to have and raise children and keep a desirable home is not important.

    Counterinsurgency
  42. I’m not giving up on women! In China, Chairman Mao said “In order to build a great socialist society it is of the utmost importance to arouse the broad masses of women to join in productive activity.”

    Surely China will correct the corrosive, ruinous, disgusting, heinous practice of men being in charge of rockets, men in charge of everything in so-called “control rooms” (that’s pretty revealing!) etc. ad nauseum.

    Oh no!

    See 0:43, 1:59, and obligatory control room shots 2:53, 3:08, 3:17, 3:34, 3:50…

    It’s a nightmare.

  43. anonymous[283] • Disclaimer says:

    Rockets are so phallic — HELLO!!!
    Until they are redesigned to be more vulval, women will not have equity, period.

    • LOL: Rosie
  44. @AKAHorace
    Can you make a case for women being better astronauts than men ?

    Smaller, eat less, more agreable, better able to get along with each other in a small space over a long time ?

    better able to get along with each other in a small space over a long time

    The hell you say!

  45. @Angular momentum
    Hey, remember the crazy astronaut lady who tried to kidnap her astronaut boyfriend’s wife? Driving across the country wearing a diaper and whatnot, you’d think she’d come up in one of these stories, because it’s still pretty damn funny.

    She was hotter than the hatchet-faced wife:

    To the topic: if a man had done this crazy shite – well, for one thing, unlike Nowak, he’d have served time no matter how much he cried. And his shenanigans would be invoked as an example of how imperfect male astronauts are. Of course, the episode will never be mentioned as evidence of how psychologically unstable females should be kept away from spacecraft….

  46. But a lot of clods on this website say that the Moon Landing was a hoax.

    • Replies: @vinteuil

    But a lot of clods on this website say that the Moon Landing was a hoax.
     
    "A lot?" Not even RKU goes for that one.
  47. @guest
    That old temperature thing. What do they want, exactly? Because thermostats can only be set one way at a time. Do we split the difference? How about a range between the ideal temperature for each sex, then have it fluctuate back and forth at random intervals?

    Or you could just wear a sweater when you're cold. No one has to see your 40 year-old thighs and cleavage.

    There was recently a woman complaining on Twitter that she repeated “got sick” (and probably almost died!) during the summer from too much AC at the office. She was quite adamant that she should be able to wear a skirt without being worried about freezing at work, and if men are too hot “they can buy a fan lol!”.

    Long story short, who the hell are we to question a woman? Just restructure your existence around her wants and then

    Shut

    The

    Fuck

    Up.

  48. Anonymous[135] • Disclaimer says:

    I wonder, actually, how much of the credit for putting a man on the Moon should be given to Germany. While a lot of the mid-tier engineers who worked in the Apollo Project were native Americans, the upper echelon of Nasa, the big-shot rocket scientists in the 1950’s and 1960’s, were German-born. You could hear almost as much German in the halls of NASA in the early years as English;.

    Forget women, black or otherwise. Let’s talk about the Germans. *German men* . You can’t get any more racially oppressive to minorities than this. Hell, many of those German had been full-fledged Nazis. German. And Male. This is pretty much the ultimate in white racism oppressing minorities.

    • Replies: @guest
    We were loathe to admit how much Nazi talent we pilfered after the war, and doubly committed to refusing credit to them now.
  49. Is the whole space thing really going to be worth it if we’re going to be shamed into taking the fat ones and the ones with bad hair?

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Is the whole space thing really going to be worth it if we’re going to be shamed into taking the fat ones and the ones with bad hair?
     
    I was promised a future that would look like Star Trek:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f5/d9/b6/f5d9b6e132dff1350c526663a2917baa.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/95/99/cb959945f415b89070f17e243d02191d.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cc/d8/fa/ccd8fa02ec12c7eb3336d7831fbd29c2.png

    https://engage-platform-prod.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/5b710396c3e605008074874b-0bb6b200-b87f-11e8-8a57-abcf70adb02a-andrea.png

    If it instead looks like "People of Walmart", I'd prefer to dwell in the past.
  50. @Anonymous
    I wonder, actually, how much of the credit for putting a man on the Moon should be given to Germany. While a lot of the mid-tier engineers who worked in the Apollo Project were native Americans, the upper echelon of Nasa, the big-shot rocket scientists in the 1950's and 1960's, were German-born. You could hear almost as much German in the halls of NASA in the early years as English;.

    Forget women, black or otherwise. Let's talk about the Germans. *German men* . You can't get any more racially oppressive to minorities than this. Hell, many of those German had been full-fledged Nazis. German. And Male. This is pretty much the ultimate in white racism oppressing minorities.

    We were loathe to admit how much Nazi talent we pilfered after the war, and doubly committed to refusing credit to them now.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    Yes, the left has a point in a certain sense, when they say America is now receiving its karmic comeuppance for the destruction, appropriation and plunder it rendered unto others: it's just that those "others" were other white people. Just like how our white male robber barons are indeed a band of thieves subsisting off the backs of others...it's just that those others are other white males, not sassy women of color.
  51. OFF TOPIC from http://www.dallassportsfanatic.com:

    That’s not right, that’s not fair and it’s un-American.” Nancy Lieberman addresses gender inequality in sports

    by Selena Sixtos

    16 July 2019

    DALLAS, Texas- Avid sports fans across the metroplex gathered for a weekend full of SportsCon, the ultimate fan experience that brings players from all sports together in one place.

    This year’s anticipated SportsCon lineup included 2018 BIG3 Champion Coach and Basketball Hall of Famer Nancy Lieberman aka “Lady Magic.”

    Being the passionate philanthropic leader she is, Lieberman took time to address certain issues that are all too common in the sports world, primarily those revolving around gender equality.

    “[Women] we’re trying to break into a lot of different fields. Let me just start by saying this:

    What saddens me the most is women of color make between 57 and 68 cents on the dollar to men,” said Lieberman. “That’s not right, that’s not fair and it’s un-American.”

    Lieberman went on to urge women to wear a thick skin in order to succeed in the NBA league.

    What Lieberman shared on that podium goes far beyond the basketball court. She shared a message that women have been roaring for decades and it’s only going to keep getting louder.

    “I’m never scared when somebody gives me opportunity. I’m only scared when somebody doesn’t. Women, you must be ready for your opportunity.”

    🙂

    • Replies: @HammerJack

    Being the passionate philanthropic leader she is, Lieberman took time to address certain issues
     
    Though I have no particular reason to believe that she is particularly wealthy, I have noticed a trend in the MSM toward identifying any especially wealthy person with an obviously Jewish name with a phrase like that. What could it mean?
  52. @Chief Seattle
    Is the whole space thing really going to be worth it if we're going to be shamed into taking the fat ones and the ones with bad hair?

    Is the whole space thing really going to be worth it if we’re going to be shamed into taking the fat ones and the ones with bad hair?

    I was promised a future that would look like Star Trek:

    If it instead looks like “People of Walmart”, I’d prefer to dwell in the past.

  53. @Angular momentum
    Hey, remember the crazy astronaut lady who tried to kidnap her astronaut boyfriend’s wife? Driving across the country wearing a diaper and whatnot, you’d think she’d come up in one of these stories, because it’s still pretty damn funny.

    To paraphrase Kinky Friedman, Mary Robinette Kowal is going to have to diaper drive up there and kick your ass!

  54. Women really don’t get the fact you have to keep modern workplaces cool, SO THE F***ING COMPUTERS DON’T OVERHEAT!

  55. @guest
    That old temperature thing. What do they want, exactly? Because thermostats can only be set one way at a time. Do we split the difference? How about a range between the ideal temperature for each sex, then have it fluctuate back and forth at random intervals?

    Or you could just wear a sweater when you're cold. No one has to see your 40 year-old thighs and cleavage.
  56. On Topic:

    The famous Coraline Ada, author[ess] of the controversal Linux Code of Conduct has proposed the addition of a code of conduct to the original Apollo 11 Guidance Computer source code.

    Track tasks and feature requests

    https://avatars2.githubusercontent.com/u/22284?s=180&v=4

    How about a code of conduct? #411

    CoralineAda opened this issue Jul 18, 2019 · 19 comments

    To be fair, some of it is offensive and could use updating.

    BURN_BABY_BURN–MASTER_IGNITION_ROUTINE.s

    Master? Too close to master/slave concept. Makes light of the very serious draft card/bra burning protests.

    ALARM_AND_ABORT.agc

    Use of “abort” to mean failure demeans women’s reproductive rights

    “POODOO abort, does software restart (ENEMA) and “GO TO POOH” (flashing Verb 37) unless “AVERAGE G” is running then only software restart”

    Naughty words. Delet this.

  57. @Diversity is Great!
    OFF TOPIC from www.dallassportsfanatic.com:

    That’s not right, that’s not fair and it’s un-American.” Nancy Lieberman addresses gender inequality in sports

    by Selena Sixtos

    16 July 2019

    DALLAS, Texas- Avid sports fans across the metroplex gathered for a weekend full of SportsCon, the ultimate fan experience that brings players from all sports together in one place.

    This year’s anticipated SportsCon lineup included 2018 BIG3 Champion Coach and Basketball Hall of Famer Nancy Lieberman aka “Lady Magic.”
     

    Being the passionate philanthropic leader she is, Lieberman took time to address certain issues that are all too common in the sports world, primarily those revolving around gender equality.

    “[Women] we’re trying to break into a lot of different fields. Let me just start by saying this:

    What saddens me the most is women of color make between 57 and 68 cents on the dollar to men,” said Lieberman. “That’s not right, that’s not fair and it’s un-American.”

    Lieberman went on to urge women to wear a thick skin in order to succeed in the NBA league.
     

    What Lieberman shared on that podium goes far beyond the basketball court. She shared a message that women have been roaring for decades and it’s only going to keep getting louder.

    “I’m never scared when somebody gives me opportunity. I’m only scared when somebody doesn’t. Women, you must be ready for your opportunity.”
     
    :)

    Being the passionate philanthropic leader she is, Lieberman took time to address certain issues

    Though I have no particular reason to believe that she is particularly wealthy, I have noticed a trend in the MSM toward identifying any especially wealthy person with an obviously Jewish name with a phrase like that. What could it mean?

  58. @Unladen Swallow
    I've been hearing about NASA going back to the Moon for well over a decade now, does anyone think they can really pull it off anymore? SpaceX isn't even bothering other than a tourist mission for a Japanese billionaire, that will simply zoom around it.
  59. • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    I don't know who's been busier lately -- Steve, or the Babylon Bee. Kudos to both for trying to keep up with the craziness.
  60. @Joe Magarac
    The USA will never make it back to the moon (let alone Mars) due to crap like this.

    Bear in mind the original plan for after Apollo was to establish a permanent presence after the manner depicted in 2001 A Space Odyssey. Leave out the monoliths, the Jupiter mission and HAL 90oo, and that was a legitimate extrapolation from what was on the drawing board.

    And leftist politics killed it.

    The Chinese, Russians or possibly the Indians might make it.

    At least if the Indians do it they won’t be unduly troubled by the matter of proper toileting in zero gravity environments.

  61. @Thomm
    But a lot of clods on this website say that the Moon Landing was a hoax.

    But a lot of clods on this website say that the Moon Landing was a hoax.

    “A lot?” Not even RKU goes for that one.

  62. @Precious
    I just checked and we still have twelve living astronauts who have been to the moon. (Let's set aside alt-theory for a moment.) There is still time for one of them to become an X-man and make history by retroactively becoming the first woman to the moon.

    Now that’s thinking outside the box! Brilliant

  63. “Temperatures are set for men, which leaves women carrying sweaters to work….”

    So it’s actually SCIENCE! that my wife likes room temperatures hotter than I do.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2017/oct/11/why-women-sewcretly-turn-up-the-heating

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2019/05/23/room-temperature-preferences-men-women-workplace-performance-learning/

    I suppose it all dates back to those years she spent in the warm cave, looking after the children, while I was cutting firewood outside with my stone axe and keeping a weather eye open for sabre-toothed beasts.

  64. @Anon
    Those numbers actually show that men of all races scored HIGHER on the Math SAT than women of the same race. Talk about an own goal. Idiot.

    Those numbers actually show that men of all races scored HIGHER on the Math SAT than women of the same race.

    Asian women: 590
    White men: 540

    Believe it or not, I take no pleasure in rubbing this in your face, but apparently I don’t have any choice.

    • LOL: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    One of you scored higher in reading comprehension, too, but which one...?
    , @Autochthon
    Ah yes, the old "But ant-people are batter at maths!" canard.

    You know what ant-people are good at? Conformist, rote, lockstep cramming. Memorisation and regurgitation. They are like computers that way.

    Original or creative thought to solve novel problems or advance knowledge and art? That's what we Europeans do.

    The ant-people gave us paper and gunpowder. I won't embarass them with a list of what Europeans contributed while that was happening.

    But I digress. Mathematics are the topic:

    Europeans
    Euclid
    Thales
    Eratosthenes
    Pythagoras
    Archimedes
    Ptolemy
    DeCartes
    Leibniz
    Nash
    Newton
    Galilei
    Copernicus
    Kepler
    Pascal
    Cassini
    Napier
    Cantor
    Doppler
    Bigollo
    Bernoulli
    Gauss
    Euler
    Kelvin
    Venn
    Von Neumann
    Turing
    Boole
    Russell
    Fermat
    Maxwell
    Hubble
    Witten
    Perelman

    Asians
    Khayyám
    Ramanujan

    You could make any similar list, quibbling about an entry here or there, and I probably would not mind. Any honest effort would yield the same result: We European men do alright. (It's almost as if we were genetically selected to be better at all this stuff! But that's pseudoscientific crazy talk, so "shhhh.") In fact, I can't think if any Asians of the ching-chong variety (the most antlike-of the ant-peoples) or any females at all worth adding to such a list.
  65. Today Google has a cartoon about the moon landing, narrated by none other than Michael Collins himself. It’s actually kind of moving. He does say “humankind” at one point, but the actual quotes (“That’s one small step for man…”, “Here men from Planet Earth…”) are all intact. Thank God for little favors.

    When the Eagle lands, we see a shot (again, cartoon) of Mission Control, with all the people present cheering. (Not actually true- the mission was ongoing, and there was no cheering until it ended with the safe return. But it’s a common image.) You see backs of heads only, but at least a third of the people in the room seem to be women.

    Of course, we have photos of the scene. 100% white men.

  66. Wow – and here I thought I knew everything you weren’t supposed to know about male/female differences. But I had never even heard of this temperature preference thing.

    It sure explains some weird stuff that I could never understand, before.

  67. @Rosie

    Nature had an article on the front page that made me laugh with the picture. It’s an Indian woman in a saree with her arms crossed.
     
    You know, articles like this remind me of what my Grampa used to say: "Quit cryin' or I'll give ya sumthin' to cry about.

    That said, I'm not so sure I'd be laughing if I were you.

    http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/sat2.png

    But there’s no complaining to do, that’s what is so funny. Women are doing just fine in science. (Except maybe a lag in being less represented in older cohorts but even there, there are tons of women who are highly respected)

    But it also reminded me of the Bill Burr bit about the NFL airing ads telling the audience to do something about domestic violence after letting their players get away with it. Why is Nature lecturing me? They’re the biggest journal in the world. If you’re discriminating against female authors stop it!

    • Agree: Rosie
  68. @Angular momentum
    Hey, remember the crazy astronaut lady who tried to kidnap her astronaut boyfriend’s wife? Driving across the country wearing a diaper and whatnot, you’d think she’d come up in one of these stories, because it’s still pretty damn funny.

    That was Coen Brothers material.

  69. The UK has best taste in Moon Operations

    Lt. Ellis feels the entitlement of male patriarchy at 23:05

  70. Women are asked to compromise about seemingly small things in order to participate. Every time we do that, we carry those imprints forward into the future.

    Hey, women insist we put the seat down; why can’t they meet us half way on other things? Who’s going to help put the helmet on without flattening or mussing the hair?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    My father has never put the toilet seat down, and my mother and I have never complained.

    It's not in the same ballpark as AC usage in the summer.

    Overuse of AC in office environments *has* caused my mother health issues in the past. Almost no one gets health issues from their husband or father not putting the toilet seat down.

    The only time when a man is obligated to put the toilet seat down is if his mother, wife, or daughter have a physical disability that would prevent them from easily putting the toilet seat down for themselves.
  71. @Paleo Retiree
    https://babylonbee.com/news/nasa-announces-all-female-remake-of-staged-moon-landings

    I don’t know who’s been busier lately — Steve, or the Babylon Bee. Kudos to both for trying to keep up with the craziness.

  72. But NASA can learn from its failures as it aims to send women to the moon and beyond.

    Good idea. Let’s start with all the woke female columnists.

    On a more serious note, I imagine you need people who are calm under pressure in a highly stressed environment. People who flip because the central heating is two degrees cooler than they want probably don’t meet that criteria.

  73. It’s cold out there (3°K and falling, to be precise – count yourself lucky that space isolates well).

    From Alan Dean Foster’s novelization of “Alien”:

    Seen shorn of their dreams, the seven members of the Nostromo’s crew were even less impressive than they’d been in hypersleep. For one thing, they were dripping wet from the preservative cryosleep fluid that had filled and surrounded their bodies. However analeptic, slime of any sort is not becoming.

    For another, they were naked, and the liquid was a poor substitute for the slimming and shaping effects of the artificial skins called clothes.

    ‘Jesus,’ muttered Lambert, disgustedly wiping fluid from her shoulders and sides, ‘am I cold!’ She stepped out of the coffin that preserved life instead of death, began fumbling in a nearby compartment. Using the towel she found there, she commenced wiping the transparent syrup from her legs.

    ‘Why the hell can’t Mother warm the ship before breaking us out of storage?’ She was working on her feet now, trying to remember where she’d dumped her clothes.

    ‘You know why.’ Parker was too busy with his own sticky, tired self to bother staring at the nude navigator. ‘Company policy. Energy conservation, which translates as Company cheap. Why waste excess power warming the freezer section until the last possible second? Besides, it’s always cold coming out of hypersleep. You know what the freezer takes your internal temperature down to.’

    ‘Yeah, I know. But it’s still cold.’ She mumbled it, knowing Parker was perfectly correct but resenting having to admit it. She’d never cared much for the engineer. [Nobody cares for engineers!] Damn it, Mother, she thought, seeing the goosebumps on her forearm, let’s have some heat!

    Dallas was towelling himself off, dry-sponging away the last of the cryosleep gunk, and trying not to stare at something the others could not see. He’d noticed it even before rising from his freezer. The ship had arranged it so that he would. ‘Work’ll warm us all up fast enough.’

    Lambert muttered something unintelligible.

    ‘Everybody to your stations. I assume you all remember what you’re getting paid for. Besides sleeping away your troubles.’

    No one smiled or bothered to comment. Parker glanced across to where his partner was sitting up in his freezer. ‘Morning. Still with us, Brett?’

    ‘Yo.’

    ‘Lucky us.’ That came from Ripley. She stretched, turning it into a more aesthetic movement than any of the others. ‘Nice to know our prime conversationalist is as garrulous as ever.’

    Alien was pretty equity-dispensing. No bullshit. Just space trucking. “Weyland-Yutani” would probably have to be controlled by Sikhs in a reboot. “Ganesha Towing Inc.” sounds good.

  74. @Rosie

    Nature had an article on the front page that made me laugh with the picture. It’s an Indian woman in a saree with her arms crossed.
     
    You know, articles like this remind me of what my Grampa used to say: "Quit cryin' or I'll give ya sumthin' to cry about.

    That said, I'm not so sure I'd be laughing if I were you.

    http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/sat2.png

    Telling women that they should do something they don’t like to do is generally a waste of time. You’ll get some who actually do what you’ve told them to do, but most won’t. Women can work mathematics as it is now taught (as methods, algorithms if you will) better than men — women have high average Agreeableness [1] — but tend not to see the point of the exercise beyond conforming to course requirements, and tend to drop it for more important things once the course is done.
    This is not a fault. Right now industrialized countries are depopulating because of _low birth rate_, and children are being hurt by daycare and lack of a mother. In plain English, we’re dying because women aren’t _allowed_ to do what women want to do. Instead, we have an elaborate effort to convince women that only through not having children can women be happy. For most women, that means a self-contempt for (in essence) not having conformed to a propaganda campaign. For the women that make it to the top, that means 80 hour weeks doing something that’s their second choice, or, once they see what 80 hours for the rest of your life means, not their 10th choice.
    Summary: The entire idea that women should abandon vital work that only women can do in order to displace men who could be supporting women doing the vital work has resulted (how else?) in increased fear and uncertainty and (what is apparently the ultimate sin) less happy women. With the minor side effect of making industrial society non-viable (since c.a. AD 1950 it kills off the population that maintains it). The program appears to be a bad idea. Slogan: Feminists don’t hate men, they hate women.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits

    • Agree: El Dato
    • Replies: @Rosie

    Summary: The entire idea that women should abandon vital work that only women can do
     
    Whether childrearing is vital work depends on who is talking and what their agenda is at that particular moment. When they want to argue that women shouldn't compete with men, ot is vital work that needs to get done. When they want to argue that women shouldn't share equally I marital property and income, then all of a sudden it's not vital and important work anymore. It's trivial worl and SAHM are overgrown children at best, parasites at worst, who aren't paying our share of taxes, blahs, blah, blah

    If you want women to get married and have children, you're going to have to convince men to give them the opportunity to do that.

    https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/2372-man-shortage-men-drives-women-careers.html
  75. @Unladen Swallow
    I've been hearing about NASA going back to the Moon for well over a decade now, does anyone think they can really pull it off anymore? SpaceX isn't even bothering other than a tourist mission for a Japanese billionaire, that will simply zoom around it.

    I’ve been hearing about NASA going back to the Moon for well over a decade now, does anyone think they can really pull it off anymore?

    NASA couldn’t go to Toledo if you assigned them a driver, a car, and a GPS. The moon is further away than even Toledo.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @El Dato
    Yeah, but with SLS you can lunch Three Senators At a Time.

    Fanta-stick!
  76. @Hail
    In related news,

    Israel's first moon mission ends in failure

    April 11, 2019
     


    Israeli team will no longer send a second spacecraft to Moon
    ‘The Moon is not enough of a challenge’

    Jun 25, 2019
     

    What's the problem?

    Is it that one can't ethnic-network one's way to the Moon?

    What’s the problem?

    Is it that one can’t ethnic-network one’s way to the Moon?

    In short, yes. The “ethnic-network”, or at least the “business as usual” method, was tried early on in the space program, and then replaced.

    The first probe to the moon, the Ranger [1], failed the first time — equipment wasn’t reliable. So: the FBI was sent in to interview everybody who had anything to do with the program. The FBI conduced long interviews, responding “That doesn’t sound quite right to me” and similar. After the investigation, nobody was charged with anything, but there was a general consensus that another investigation would not be a Good Thing. There were also two “reorganizations”. Subsequently, work was taken a bit more seriously by all concerned, and subsequent probes worked to specs. This from a talk I once had with a JPL employee at the time — apparently it entered into JPL lore.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranger_program

  77. @Angular momentum
    Hey, remember the crazy astronaut lady who tried to kidnap her astronaut boyfriend’s wife? Driving across the country wearing a diaper and whatnot, you’d think she’d come up in one of these stories, because it’s still pretty damn funny.

    Hey, remember the crazy astronaut lady who tried to kidnap her astronaut boyfriend’s wife?

    Put women under impossible stress and some will crack. Men can pretend this is funny, but they know it isn’t.

    Slogan: Feminists don’t hate men, they hate women.

    Counterinsurgency

  78. @Anon
    Maybe because they wanted employees who were actually focused on science and not bunny slippers and air conditioning levels? Typical women, always whining and always putting their own comfort level before anything else.

    Typical women, always whining and always putting their own comfort level before anything else.

    That’s a kind of rugged tactic for keeping women in shape for pregnancy, kids, and taking care of the home base. Rugged in that it works over a wide variety of possible husbands (women have to take what they can get for mates, same as men). It’s not effective in a work environment, where women’s ability to have and raise children and keep a desirable home is not important.

    Counterinsurgency

  79. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist

    Women are asked to compromise about seemingly small things in order to participate. Every time we do that, we carry those imprints forward into the future.
     
    Hey, women insist we put the seat down; why can't they meet us half way on other things? Who's going to help put the helmet on without flattening or mussing the hair?

    My father has never put the toilet seat down, and my mother and I have never complained.

    It’s not in the same ballpark as AC usage in the summer.

    Overuse of AC in office environments *has* caused my mother health issues in the past. Almost no one gets health issues from their husband or father not putting the toilet seat down.

    The only time when a man is obligated to put the toilet seat down is if his mother, wife, or daughter have a physical disability that would prevent them from easily putting the toilet seat down for themselves.

  80. @guest
    We were loathe to admit how much Nazi talent we pilfered after the war, and doubly committed to refusing credit to them now.

    Yes, the left has a point in a certain sense, when they say America is now receiving its karmic comeuppance for the destruction, appropriation and plunder it rendered unto others: it’s just that those “others” were other white people. Just like how our white male robber barons are indeed a band of thieves subsisting off the backs of others…it’s just that those others are other white males, not sassy women of color.

  81. First, “we just want to participate.” Then, “everything has to change to make me ‘comfortable.’ This is how the military became an emasculated joke. Never, ever, but never, let the camel’s nose in the tent.

  82. @Counterinsurgency

    I’ve been hearing about NASA going back to the Moon for well over a decade now, does anyone think they can really pull it off anymore?
     
    NASA couldn't go to Toledo if you assigned them a driver, a car, and a GPS. The moon is further away than even Toledo.

    Counterinsurgency

    Yeah, but with SLS you can lunch Three Senators At a Time.

    Fanta-stick!

  83. @Rosie

    Those numbers actually show that men of all races scored HIGHER on the Math SAT than women of the same race.
     
    Asian women: 590
    White men: 540

    Believe it or not, I take no pleasure in rubbing this in your face, but apparently I don't have any choice.

    One of you scored higher in reading comprehension, too, but which one…?

  84. @Rosie

    Those numbers actually show that men of all races scored HIGHER on the Math SAT than women of the same race.
     
    Asian women: 590
    White men: 540

    Believe it or not, I take no pleasure in rubbing this in your face, but apparently I don't have any choice.

    Ah yes, the old “But ant-people are batter at maths!” canard.

    You know what ant-people are good at? Conformist, rote, lockstep cramming. Memorisation and regurgitation. They are like computers that way.

    Original or creative thought to solve novel problems or advance knowledge and art? That’s what we Europeans do.

    The ant-people gave us paper and gunpowder. I won’t embarass them with a list of what Europeans contributed while that was happening.

    But I digress. Mathematics are the topic:

    Europeans
    Euclid
    Thales
    Eratosthenes
    Pythagoras
    Archimedes
    Ptolemy
    DeCartes
    Leibniz
    Nash
    Newton
    Galilei
    Copernicus
    Kepler
    Pascal
    Cassini
    Napier
    Cantor
    Doppler
    Bigollo
    Bernoulli
    Gauss
    Euler
    Kelvin
    Venn
    Von Neumann
    Turing
    Boole
    Russell
    Fermat
    Maxwell
    Hubble
    Witten
    Perelman

    Asians
    Khayyám
    Ramanujan

    You could make any similar list, quibbling about an entry here or there, and I probably would not mind. Any honest effort would yield the same result: We European men do alright. (It’s almost as if we were genetically selected to be better at all this stuff! But that’s pseudoscientific crazy talk, so “shhhh.”) In fact, I can’t think if any Asians of the ching-chong variety (the most antlike-of the ant-peoples) or any females at all worth adding to such a list.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Ah yes, the old “But ant-people are batter at maths!” canard.
     
    We'll see if it's a canard when some Brahmin girl gets your White son's seat at MIT.
  85. @Rosie

    Nature had an article on the front page that made me laugh with the picture. It’s an Indian woman in a saree with her arms crossed.
     
    You know, articles like this remind me of what my Grampa used to say: "Quit cryin' or I'll give ya sumthin' to cry about.

    That said, I'm not so sure I'd be laughing if I were you.

    http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/sat2.png

    I scored higher than asians on the math sat and I’m not very bright. All this proves is that the average student of any race taking the sat is relatively stupid.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    I scored higher than asians on the math sat and I’m not very bright. All this proves is that the average student of any race taking the sat is relatively stupid.
     
    While you all sit here and alienate White women, your only natural allies, pajeets and patels arrive in their droves to replace you.
  86. @AKAHorace
    Can you make a case for women being better astronauts than men ?

    Smaller, eat less, more agreable, better able to get along with each other in a small space over a long time ?

    Well, they are smaller and they do eat less, but so do male bettas—which, incidentally, are about as agreeable in small spaces together over long periods of time – and almost as qualified as women to be asfronauts….

  87. @Counterinsurgency
    Telling women that they should do something they don't like to do is generally a waste of time. You'll get some who actually do what you've told them to do, but most won't. Women can work mathematics as it is now taught (as methods, algorithms if you will) better than men -- women have high average Agreeableness [1] -- but tend not to see the point of the exercise beyond conforming to course requirements, and tend to drop it for more important things once the course is done.
    This is not a fault. Right now industrialized countries are depopulating because of _low birth rate_, and children are being hurt by daycare and lack of a mother. In plain English, we're dying because women aren't _allowed_ to do what women want to do. Instead, we have an elaborate effort to convince women that only through not having children can women be happy. For most women, that means a self-contempt for (in essence) not having conformed to a propaganda campaign. For the women that make it to the top, that means 80 hour weeks doing something that's their second choice, or, once they see what 80 hours for the rest of your life means, not their 10th choice.
    Summary: The entire idea that women should abandon vital work that only women can do in order to displace men who could be supporting women doing the vital work has resulted (how else?) in increased fear and uncertainty and (what is apparently the ultimate sin) less happy women. With the minor side effect of making industrial society non-viable (since c.a. AD 1950 it kills off the population that maintains it). The program appears to be a bad idea. Slogan: Feminists don't hate men, they hate women.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits

    Summary: The entire idea that women should abandon vital work that only women can do

    Whether childrearing is vital work depends on who is talking and what their agenda is at that particular moment. When they want to argue that women shouldn’t compete with men, ot is vital work that needs to get done. When they want to argue that women shouldn’t share equally I marital property and income, then all of a sudden it’s not vital and important work anymore. It’s trivial worl and SAHM are overgrown children at best, parasites at worst, who aren’t paying our share of taxes, blahs, blah, blah

    If you want women to get married and have children, you’re going to have to convince men to give them the opportunity to do that.

    https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/2372-man-shortage-men-drives-women-careers.html

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
    Women's work is not more or less important than life itself. If people say different, well, people have been know to lie.

    If you want women to get married and have children, you’re going to have to convince men to give them the opportunity to do that.
     
    Most certainly true. It's also true that the men women might want to marry can't find jobs because "feminism" greatly reduced the number of men in the workplace. If women want men with an income, women are going to have to insist that current "feminist" laws be repealed. As it is, the "feminists" are simply sock puppets for the Left, who follow Marx's declaration that specialization is the ultimate cause of unhappiness, and the ultimate source of specialization is the family -- so the family must be destroyed along with specialization to make everybody happy in the ideal society. Women, in short, are going to have to fight those women who actually represent men but claim to represent women.

    If the women can't fight directly, they can visibly, verbally, and physically support men who do it for them. Without that, men can't successfully fight women.

    Not easy, but maybe better than being a childless corporate drone.

    Counterinsurgency
  88. Let me clear.
    If like your gender, you can keep your gender.
    Even though gender is merely a social construct.
    But if you do keep your gender by clinging bitterly to those gender parts you would not be progressive. Therefore antifa may come after you.
    If you bring a Betsy Ross flag to the rally, Antifa will bring mace, billy clubs, baseball bats, crowbars, homemade flamethrowers, and the John Brown Gun Club will bring rifles and molotov cocktails.

    Back to gender.
    I have evolved on this issue.
    Especially when it came to getting campaign cash.
    Which I was especially good at getting, both domestic and international.

    Now let’s have a beer summit and you can apologize to me. While I apologize to the world for your existence.

  89. @Autochthon
    Ah yes, the old "But ant-people are batter at maths!" canard.

    You know what ant-people are good at? Conformist, rote, lockstep cramming. Memorisation and regurgitation. They are like computers that way.

    Original or creative thought to solve novel problems or advance knowledge and art? That's what we Europeans do.

    The ant-people gave us paper and gunpowder. I won't embarass them with a list of what Europeans contributed while that was happening.

    But I digress. Mathematics are the topic:

    Europeans
    Euclid
    Thales
    Eratosthenes
    Pythagoras
    Archimedes
    Ptolemy
    DeCartes
    Leibniz
    Nash
    Newton
    Galilei
    Copernicus
    Kepler
    Pascal
    Cassini
    Napier
    Cantor
    Doppler
    Bigollo
    Bernoulli
    Gauss
    Euler
    Kelvin
    Venn
    Von Neumann
    Turing
    Boole
    Russell
    Fermat
    Maxwell
    Hubble
    Witten
    Perelman

    Asians
    Khayyám
    Ramanujan

    You could make any similar list, quibbling about an entry here or there, and I probably would not mind. Any honest effort would yield the same result: We European men do alright. (It's almost as if we were genetically selected to be better at all this stuff! But that's pseudoscientific crazy talk, so "shhhh.") In fact, I can't think if any Asians of the ching-chong variety (the most antlike-of the ant-peoples) or any females at all worth adding to such a list.

    Ah yes, the old “But ant-people are batter at maths!” canard.

    We’ll see if it’s a canard when some Brahmin girl gets your White son’s seat at MIT.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency

    We’ll see if it’s a canard when some Brahmin girl gets your White son’s seat at MIT.
     
    And what woman is going to marry the Brahmin girl?

    Counterinsurgency
  90. @Kyle
    I scored higher than asians on the math sat and I’m not very bright. All this proves is that the average student of any race taking the sat is relatively stupid.

    I scored higher than asians on the math sat and I’m not very bright. All this proves is that the average student of any race taking the sat is relatively stupid.

    While you all sit here and alienate White women, your only natural allies, pajeets and patels arrive in their droves to replace you.

  91. @Rosie

    Summary: The entire idea that women should abandon vital work that only women can do
     
    Whether childrearing is vital work depends on who is talking and what their agenda is at that particular moment. When they want to argue that women shouldn't compete with men, ot is vital work that needs to get done. When they want to argue that women shouldn't share equally I marital property and income, then all of a sudden it's not vital and important work anymore. It's trivial worl and SAHM are overgrown children at best, parasites at worst, who aren't paying our share of taxes, blahs, blah, blah

    If you want women to get married and have children, you're going to have to convince men to give them the opportunity to do that.

    https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/2372-man-shortage-men-drives-women-careers.html

    Women’s work is not more or less important than life itself. If people say different, well, people have been know to lie.

    If you want women to get married and have children, you’re going to have to convince men to give them the opportunity to do that.

    Most certainly true. It’s also true that the men women might want to marry can’t find jobs because “feminism” greatly reduced the number of men in the workplace. If women want men with an income, women are going to have to insist that current “feminist” laws be repealed. As it is, the “feminists” are simply sock puppets for the Left, who follow Marx’s declaration that specialization is the ultimate cause of unhappiness, and the ultimate source of specialization is the family — so the family must be destroyed along with specialization to make everybody happy in the ideal society. Women, in short, are going to have to fight those women who actually represent men but claim to represent women.

    If the women can’t fight directly, they can visibly, verbally, and physically support men who do it for them. Without that, men can’t successfully fight women.

    Not easy, but maybe better than being a childless corporate drone.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @Rosie

    . It’s also true that the men women might want to marry can’t find jobs because “feminism” greatly reduced the number of men in the workplace.
     
    You don't need a job to get married. If you do, you waited too long. College engagements are very common in conservative Christian colleges. College boys don't have jobs.

    https://www.chronicle.com/article/Ring-by-Spring-How/241840

    Now, if you're 30 and don't have a job, yes you're going to have problems.
  92. @Rosie

    Ah yes, the old “But ant-people are batter at maths!” canard.
     
    We'll see if it's a canard when some Brahmin girl gets your White son's seat at MIT.

    We’ll see if it’s a canard when some Brahmin girl gets your White son’s seat at MIT.

    And what woman is going to marry the Brahmin girl?

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Yeah, that's an interesting question, actually. Recently, I talked with a quarter-white girl in Japan who was a little dumpy (you see where this is going?) but attractive. We talked for quite a while, and I was starting to get "get laid" vibes when the conversation turned in a ditection that necessitated she talk about her "partner" (ie, lesbo!).

    Point is, some girls will marry anything with a paycheck or a chance at a payoff in the future.
  93. @Counterinsurgency
    Women's work is not more or less important than life itself. If people say different, well, people have been know to lie.

    If you want women to get married and have children, you’re going to have to convince men to give them the opportunity to do that.
     
    Most certainly true. It's also true that the men women might want to marry can't find jobs because "feminism" greatly reduced the number of men in the workplace. If women want men with an income, women are going to have to insist that current "feminist" laws be repealed. As it is, the "feminists" are simply sock puppets for the Left, who follow Marx's declaration that specialization is the ultimate cause of unhappiness, and the ultimate source of specialization is the family -- so the family must be destroyed along with specialization to make everybody happy in the ideal society. Women, in short, are going to have to fight those women who actually represent men but claim to represent women.

    If the women can't fight directly, they can visibly, verbally, and physically support men who do it for them. Without that, men can't successfully fight women.

    Not easy, but maybe better than being a childless corporate drone.

    Counterinsurgency

    . It’s also true that the men women might want to marry can’t find jobs because “feminism” greatly reduced the number of men in the workplace.

    You don’t need a job to get married. If you do, you waited too long. College engagements are very common in conservative Christian colleges. College boys don’t have jobs.

    https://www.chronicle.com/article/Ring-by-Spring-How/241840

    Now, if you’re 30 and don’t have a job, yes you’re going to have problems.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency

    You don’t need a job to get married.
     
    Depends. In practice, women either (a) marry a man who is employed and has a somewhat greater income than the woman, or can clearly support the woman should that become necessary, or (b) marry the welfare system, which will not allow them to marry a human being. The White underclass that can't find blue collar jobs is developing about the way the Black population did after L. B. Johnson bribed them to get divorced "because the higher income would be better for the children."

    College engagements are great, but notice that they are _college_ engagements. The man has a fair chance of getting a job after college. No job, no marriage, which is why the college engagements aren't college marriages.

    There is nothing wrong with demanding an income before marriage. It's the foundation of society. What we're seeing now is that, absent jobs and absent women (who have married the government) men are a pretty shiftless bunch. No family, no work. No work, no society. We're getting poorer. Eventually, even marrying the government won't provide adequate income.

    Counterinsurgency
  94. @Rosie

    . It’s also true that the men women might want to marry can’t find jobs because “feminism” greatly reduced the number of men in the workplace.
     
    You don't need a job to get married. If you do, you waited too long. College engagements are very common in conservative Christian colleges. College boys don't have jobs.

    https://www.chronicle.com/article/Ring-by-Spring-How/241840

    Now, if you're 30 and don't have a job, yes you're going to have problems.

    You don’t need a job to get married.

    Depends. In practice, women either (a) marry a man who is employed and has a somewhat greater income than the woman, or can clearly support the woman should that become necessary, or (b) marry the welfare system, which will not allow them to marry a human being. The White underclass that can’t find blue collar jobs is developing about the way the Black population did after L. B. Johnson bribed them to get divorced “because the higher income would be better for the children.”

    College engagements are great, but notice that they are _college_ engagements. The man has a fair chance of getting a job after college. No job, no marriage, which is why the college engagements aren’t college marriages.

    There is nothing wrong with demanding an income before marriage. It’s the foundation of society. What we’re seeing now is that, absent jobs and absent women (who have married the government) men are a pretty shiftless bunch. No family, no work. No work, no society. We’re getting poorer. Eventually, even marrying the government won’t provide adequate income.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @Rosie

    No job, no marriage, which is why the college engagements aren’t college marriages.
     
    Stop making things up.

    There is nothing wrong with demanding an income before marriage.
     
    Yes, there is. The idea is that women are helpless dependents. We are not. Before modern birth control, men couldn't marry until they could support a wife and children. The result was a lot of whoremongering - not good for women. We don't need to do it that way anymore.

    My husband had nothing when I married him, not even a job. Together, we worked toward being able to live on one salary. Men don't get married young because they don't want to, not because they need a job first.

    The White underclass that can’t find blue collar jobs is developing about the way the Black population did after L. B. Johnson bribed them to get divorced “because the higher income would be better for the children.”

     

    If welfare provides a better standard of living than a husband, something is seriously wrong. Either wages are too low, welfare benefits are too generous, or some combination thereof. I note that UBI in lieu of welfare would eliminate perverse incentives.
  95. @Counterinsurgency

    You don’t need a job to get married.
     
    Depends. In practice, women either (a) marry a man who is employed and has a somewhat greater income than the woman, or can clearly support the woman should that become necessary, or (b) marry the welfare system, which will not allow them to marry a human being. The White underclass that can't find blue collar jobs is developing about the way the Black population did after L. B. Johnson bribed them to get divorced "because the higher income would be better for the children."

    College engagements are great, but notice that they are _college_ engagements. The man has a fair chance of getting a job after college. No job, no marriage, which is why the college engagements aren't college marriages.

    There is nothing wrong with demanding an income before marriage. It's the foundation of society. What we're seeing now is that, absent jobs and absent women (who have married the government) men are a pretty shiftless bunch. No family, no work. No work, no society. We're getting poorer. Eventually, even marrying the government won't provide adequate income.

    Counterinsurgency

    No job, no marriage, which is why the college engagements aren’t college marriages.

    Stop making things up.

    There is nothing wrong with demanding an income before marriage.

    Yes, there is. The idea is that women are helpless dependents. We are not. Before modern birth control, men couldn’t marry until they could support a wife and children. The result was a lot of whoremongering – not good for women. We don’t need to do it that way anymore.

    My husband had nothing when I married him, not even a job. Together, we worked toward being able to live on one salary. Men don’t get married young because they don’t want to, not because they need a job first.

    The White underclass that can’t find blue collar jobs is developing about the way the Black population did after L. B. Johnson bribed them to get divorced “because the higher income would be better for the children.”

    If welfare provides a better standard of living than a husband, something is seriously wrong. Either wages are too low, welfare benefits are too generous, or some combination thereof. I note that UBI in lieu of welfare would eliminate perverse incentives.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency

    f welfare provides a better standard of living than a husband, something is seriously wrong. Either wages are too low, welfare benefits are too generous, or some combination thereof
     
    .

    You've put your finger on the problem.

    The idea is that women are helpless dependents. We are not.
     
    The idea that women are helpless dependents seems to originate in women. Women do quite a few things to attract men, most of these things are involuntary. One of the biggest is pretending to be younger than the woman is, and that includes as a major component acting as if the women were inexperienced (as young people have to be by definition). This shows up during puberty, and is blamed on men (yet another involuntary activity by women).
    Men who support a family while their wife does essential work at home think, with good reason, that their wife is a dependent. Very few of them think that their wife is a helpless dependent. Pregnancy and raising children involves being dependent, which is why marriage in its various form exists. Women are far from helpless in that the man depends on having a family, hence depends on the "helpless" woman.

    My husband had nothing when I married him, not even a job. Together, we worked toward being able to live on one salary. Men don’t get married young because they don’t want to, not because they need a job first.
     
    Rosie, you're obviously an exception on the good side. Everybody should be able to do what you have done, but unfortunately they can't.
    Here's the conventional wisdom on men and marriage:
    "Why American men are getting less marriageable".
    https://www.businessinsider.com/why-american-men-are-getting-less-marriageable-2018-1

    Note that the picture is of an upper-middle class wedding, but the text is about manufacturing jobs, which aren't upper-middle class. Apparently upper class society is still getting married, but the descendants of the former blue-collars are not (C. Murray, _Coming Apart: The State of White America_ (at the end of the book he points out that Non-white America has the same stats as White America in terms of social institutions).

    UBI is an interesting idea that's been around since Aristophanes (http://classics.mit.edu/Aristophanes/eccles.html), and you might find the cited play entertaining and useful. The theory is that technology (in the sense of knowledge about making things) is the product of all human society, and therefore should benefit all humans. It's sort of a generalized "you didn't make that" assertion. UBI has several basic problems, including Dutton's _At Our Wits' End_ problems and lack of incentive. Believe it or not, men, if given an income, mostly won't work at manufacturing jobs.
    At any rate, UBI won't happen within our current life span; we're more apt to see serious economic problems instead.

    Counterinsurgency
  96. @Rosie

    No job, no marriage, which is why the college engagements aren’t college marriages.
     
    Stop making things up.

    There is nothing wrong with demanding an income before marriage.
     
    Yes, there is. The idea is that women are helpless dependents. We are not. Before modern birth control, men couldn't marry until they could support a wife and children. The result was a lot of whoremongering - not good for women. We don't need to do it that way anymore.

    My husband had nothing when I married him, not even a job. Together, we worked toward being able to live on one salary. Men don't get married young because they don't want to, not because they need a job first.

    The White underclass that can’t find blue collar jobs is developing about the way the Black population did after L. B. Johnson bribed them to get divorced “because the higher income would be better for the children.”

     

    If welfare provides a better standard of living than a husband, something is seriously wrong. Either wages are too low, welfare benefits are too generous, or some combination thereof. I note that UBI in lieu of welfare would eliminate perverse incentives.

    f welfare provides a better standard of living than a husband, something is seriously wrong. Either wages are too low, welfare benefits are too generous, or some combination thereof

    .

    You’ve put your finger on the problem.

    The idea is that women are helpless dependents. We are not.

    The idea that women are helpless dependents seems to originate in women. Women do quite a few things to attract men, most of these things are involuntary. One of the biggest is pretending to be younger than the woman is, and that includes as a major component acting as if the women were inexperienced (as young people have to be by definition). This shows up during puberty, and is blamed on men (yet another involuntary activity by women).
    Men who support a family while their wife does essential work at home think, with good reason, that their wife is a dependent. Very few of them think that their wife is a helpless dependent. Pregnancy and raising children involves being dependent, which is why marriage in its various form exists. Women are far from helpless in that the man depends on having a family, hence depends on the “helpless” woman.

    My husband had nothing when I married him, not even a job. Together, we worked toward being able to live on one salary. Men don’t get married young because they don’t want to, not because they need a job first.

    Rosie, you’re obviously an exception on the good side. Everybody should be able to do what you have done, but unfortunately they can’t.
    Here’s the conventional wisdom on men and marriage:
    “Why American men are getting less marriageable”.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/why-american-men-are-getting-less-marriageable-2018-1

    Note that the picture is of an upper-middle class wedding, but the text is about manufacturing jobs, which aren’t upper-middle class. Apparently upper class society is still getting married, but the descendants of the former blue-collars are not (C. Murray, _Coming Apart: The State of White America_ (at the end of the book he points out that Non-white America has the same stats as White America in terms of social institutions).

    UBI is an interesting idea that’s been around since Aristophanes (http://classics.mit.edu/Aristophanes/eccles.html), and you might find the cited play entertaining and useful. The theory is that technology (in the sense of knowledge about making things) is the product of all human society, and therefore should benefit all humans. It’s sort of a generalized “you didn’t make that” assertion. UBI has several basic problems, including Dutton’s _At Our Wits’ End_ problems and lack of incentive. Believe it or not, men, if given an income, mostly won’t work at manufacturing jobs.
    At any rate, UBI won’t happen within our current life span; we’re more apt to see serious economic problems instead.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Men who support a family while their wife does essential work at home think, with good reason, that their wife is a dependent.
     
    You're completely ignoring the fundamental point that women can earn money while a man gets established in his career.


    Rosie, you’re obviously an exception on the good side.
     
    Not true. Women do not expect their 22-year-old suitors to be able to support a family from the moment they say "I do." If men want women to invest more in family and less in career, they're going to have to start getting down on one knee much earlier in life than they are currently.
  97. @Joe Magarac
    The USA will never make it back to the moon (let alone Mars) due to crap like this.

    Bear in mind the original plan for after Apollo was to establish a permanent presence after the manner depicted in 2001 A Space Odyssey. Leave out the monoliths, the Jupiter mission and HAL 90oo, and that was a legitimate extrapolation from what was on the drawing board.

    And leftist politics killed it.

    The Chinese, Russians or possibly the Indians might make it.

    Bear in mind the original plan for after Apollo was to establish a permanent presence after the manner depicted in 2001 A Space Odyssey. Leave out the monoliths, the Jupiter mission and HAL 90oo, and that was a legitimate extrapolation from what was on the drawing board.

    And leftist politics killed it.

    What killed the space program was that, compared to the promises made by science fiction, the reality was boring to most people. Yes, it was very exciting when Apollo 11 reached the Moon. But by the time it was Apollo 12’s turn it was kinda boring. Let’s be honest people, it’s a dead rock.

    Science fiction promised us amazing adventures and encounters with fascinating aliens, but the actual space program gave us….a dead rock.

    Yes, to geeks it was all still terribly exciting. But to non-geeks it was mind-numbingly dull.

    And Mars is….another dead rock. OK, it’s a bigger dead rock.

    Science fiction killed the space program by making space exploration sound so thrilling that the boring reality came as a crushing disappointment.

  98. @Counterinsurgency

    f welfare provides a better standard of living than a husband, something is seriously wrong. Either wages are too low, welfare benefits are too generous, or some combination thereof
     
    .

    You've put your finger on the problem.

    The idea is that women are helpless dependents. We are not.
     
    The idea that women are helpless dependents seems to originate in women. Women do quite a few things to attract men, most of these things are involuntary. One of the biggest is pretending to be younger than the woman is, and that includes as a major component acting as if the women were inexperienced (as young people have to be by definition). This shows up during puberty, and is blamed on men (yet another involuntary activity by women).
    Men who support a family while their wife does essential work at home think, with good reason, that their wife is a dependent. Very few of them think that their wife is a helpless dependent. Pregnancy and raising children involves being dependent, which is why marriage in its various form exists. Women are far from helpless in that the man depends on having a family, hence depends on the "helpless" woman.

    My husband had nothing when I married him, not even a job. Together, we worked toward being able to live on one salary. Men don’t get married young because they don’t want to, not because they need a job first.
     
    Rosie, you're obviously an exception on the good side. Everybody should be able to do what you have done, but unfortunately they can't.
    Here's the conventional wisdom on men and marriage:
    "Why American men are getting less marriageable".
    https://www.businessinsider.com/why-american-men-are-getting-less-marriageable-2018-1

    Note that the picture is of an upper-middle class wedding, but the text is about manufacturing jobs, which aren't upper-middle class. Apparently upper class society is still getting married, but the descendants of the former blue-collars are not (C. Murray, _Coming Apart: The State of White America_ (at the end of the book he points out that Non-white America has the same stats as White America in terms of social institutions).

    UBI is an interesting idea that's been around since Aristophanes (http://classics.mit.edu/Aristophanes/eccles.html), and you might find the cited play entertaining and useful. The theory is that technology (in the sense of knowledge about making things) is the product of all human society, and therefore should benefit all humans. It's sort of a generalized "you didn't make that" assertion. UBI has several basic problems, including Dutton's _At Our Wits' End_ problems and lack of incentive. Believe it or not, men, if given an income, mostly won't work at manufacturing jobs.
    At any rate, UBI won't happen within our current life span; we're more apt to see serious economic problems instead.

    Counterinsurgency

    Men who support a family while their wife does essential work at home think, with good reason, that their wife is a dependent.

    You’re completely ignoring the fundamental point that women can earn money while a man gets established in his career.

    Rosie, you’re obviously an exception on the good side.

    Not true. Women do not expect their 22-year-old suitors to be able to support a family from the moment they say “I do.” If men want women to invest more in family and less in career, they’re going to have to start getting down on one knee much earlier in life than they are currently.

  99. @Counterinsurgency

    We’ll see if it’s a canard when some Brahmin girl gets your White son’s seat at MIT.
     
    And what woman is going to marry the Brahmin girl?

    Counterinsurgency

    Yeah, that’s an interesting question, actually. Recently, I talked with a quarter-white girl in Japan who was a little dumpy (you see where this is going?) but attractive. We talked for quite a while, and I was starting to get “get laid” vibes when the conversation turned in a ditection that necessitated she talk about her “partner” (ie, lesbo!).

    Point is, some girls will marry anything with a paycheck or a chance at a payoff in the future.

  100. Rosie

    Women do not expect their 22-year-old suitors to be able to support a family from the moment they say “I do.” If men want women to invest more in family and less in career, they’re going to have to start getting down on one knee much earlier in life than they are currently.

    Won’t work.
    See:
    “Why American men are getting less marriageable”.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/why-american-men-are-getting-less-marriageable-2018-1

    Bye.

    Counterinsurgency

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