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NYT: The Term "Deep State" Is Downright Un-American!
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The term “deep state” has become more common in America since I started using it in 2009 when I got back from Turkey. I then wrote:

Nonetheless, the notion of a deep state, although perhaps better conceptualized less as a top-down conspiracy than as an emergent phenomenon among insiders with overlapping interests, might prove useful to Americans in overcoming our native bias toward boyish naïveté about the ways of the world.

From the New York Times:

Rumblings of a ‘Deep State’ Undermining Trump? It Was Once a Foreign Concept
By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS MARCH 6, 2017

President Trump’s inner circle has criticized the intent of government organizations like the C.I.A.

How dare anyone criticize the CIA?!?

WASHINGTON — President Trump’s allegations that former President Barack Obama tapped his phone and his assertions that the bureaucracy is leaking secrets to discredit him are the latest signs of a White House preoccupation with a “deep state” working to thwart the Trump presidency.

The concept of a “deep state” — a shadowy network of agency or military officials who secretly conspire to influence government policy — is more often used to describe countries like Egypt, Turkey and Pakistan, where authoritarian elements band together to undercut democratically elected leaders. But inside the West Wing, Mr. Trump and his inner circle, particularly his chief strategist, Stephen K. Bannon, see the influence of such forces at work within the United States, essentially arguing that their own government is being undermined from within.

It is an extraordinary contention for a sitting president to make. Mr. Trump, who last year angrily dismissed the conclusion of intelligence officials that the Russians interfered in the presidential election to boost his candidacy,

Which, in contrast, to the Trump inner circle’s allegations about the America deep state is a completely ordinary and sensible thing to say.

Neither Mr. Trump nor Mr. Bannon has used the term “deep state” publicly. But each has argued that there is an orchestrated effort underway, fueled by leaks and enabled by the news media, to cut down the new president and interfere with his agenda….

Veterans of prior administrations have been alarmed by the charge, arguing that it suggests an undemocratic nation where legal and moral norms are ignored.

“ ‘Deep state’ I would never use,” Michael V. Hayden, the former Central Intelligence Agency director under both Mr. Obama and former President George Bush, said on MSNBC on Monday. “That’s a phrase we’ve used for Turkey and other countries like that, but not the American republic.”

That’s totally different from the United States, where, for example, J. Edgar Hoover was top dog of internal security from 1924 to 1972.

… “The deep state concept emerges in places where the army and the security apparatus creates boundaries within which the civilian political people are allowed to operate,” said Peter Feaver, a specialist in civil-military issues at Duke University and a national security aide to Mr. Bush. …

“There are milder forms of it in healthier democracies,” Mr. Feaver said, arguing that American presidents have often chafed against the constraints of the federal bureaucracy.

“Nixon shared a similar kind of distrust of the government and felt the government was out to get him at points,” Mr. Feaver added. “President Trump’s view seems to be more on the Nixon part of the spectrum, which is far from the Pakistan part.”

It’s totally a coincidence that Deep Throat turned out, in 2005, to be the late J. Edgar Hoover’s left-hand man Mark Felt, who was sore about Nixon appointing a non-Hooverite to be the offical acting head of the FBI six weeks before the Watergate break-in (while foolishly leaving Felt in charge of day to day operations).

But who can remember little details like Watergate?

Americans didn’t have the term Deep State back in the Deep Throat days, so, as Sapir and Whorf would predict, it was a big surprise to naive Americans that Deep Throat was part of Hoover’s Deep State. Now, though, that we are familiar with the term Deep State it seems kind of obvious: Deep Throat = Deep State.

But that’s not the point. The point is that Nixon was Bad, so the Deep State was Good.

Trump is Bad (but still in power), so the Deep State is non-existent.

 
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  1. neutral says:

    “There are milder forms of it in healthier democracies”

    So they claim there is only a mild form of a deep state. This is actually progress, they now admit this exists, now their narrative will be how “mildness” is acceptable, which is not an easy thing to defend considering the USA has the biggest internal security apparatus in the world and probably in all of history.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    We have at least 16 different intelligence agencies in the federal government:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community#Organization
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  2. fnn says:

    Michael Tracey’s twitter feed has a lot of Deep State coverage.

    It's so insidious to portray concerns about the influence of the "Deep State" as somehow intrinsically right-wing. https://t.co/gbXELnVnE1 pic.twitter.com/bYrEsjrf4n— Michael Tracey (@mtracey) March 6, 2017

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    • Replies: @slumber_j
    He's great.
    , @Thea
    He is part of the principled left I thought no longer existed. He would have given me treason trials for the Bush admin that I sorely missed under Obama.
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  3. The irony is that Erdogan’s rise to greater and greater power means that the Turkish “deep state” either never really existed, or was so extraordinarily weak and incompetent that it didn’t matter much.

    The fact that unelected career bureaucrats often conspire to thwart democratically elected leaders is nothing new, and not particularly shocking. I am not sure it warrants the label “deep state”.

    Eisenhower simply called it the “military-industrial complex”, which is a more useful term because it recognizes the large degree of influence that money and corporations wield over US Government policy, whereas “deep state” makes more sense for state dominated economies in countries like Egypt or Russian where the industrial elites and the military/intelligence elites are often the same people.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "Eisenhower simply called it the “military-industrial complex”, which is a more useful term because it recognizes the large degree of influence that money and corporations wield over US Government policy,......."

    However, it neglects to mention other significant parts of that constellation of power: Intelligence agencies, the foreign policy establishment, and now - I would argue - think-tanks and academia. Intelligence agencies should be of particular concern: knowing other people's secrets is power.
    , @Discordiax
    WEll, it bascially took Erdogan most of a generation between first being elected to power and his final triumph over the Kemalist deep state.
    , @Zach
    Erdogan's rise does not contradict the existence of the deep state in Turkey. Rather there are probably conflicts within it. In Turkey, the Gullenists talked about changing the Turkish government from within as a corrective to the influence of the IMF and the CIA, which should be counted as part of the Turkish deep state (as well as a Turkish Mafia). It's hard to know who makes things happen in Turkey like, for instance, the assassination of Hrant Dink.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrant_Dink
    , @Johann Ricke

    Eisenhower simply called it the “military-industrial complex”
     
    It was the wrong label - the military is the tamest of the government agencies because politicking is not just a firing offense, it's grounds for a court martial. A more accurate one would be surveillance, regulatory, welfare-state industrial complex, which also dwarfs military spending 6 to 1.
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  4. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Of course, the ‘deep’ in ‘Deep Throat’ doesn’t refer to a mole buried somewhere in the bowels of the FBI, and neither does ‘Throat’ refer to the said mole’s vocalization of dirty little secrets, no. Rather it refers to that strange era in post-Vietnam malaised America, the ‘porno-chic’ phase in which that mob-financed dirty little movie ‘Deep Throat’ was hailed by those who should have known better as the ‘cultural’ highlight of 1972. Messrs Bernstein and Woodward met Mark Felt directly after a ‘viewing’ of Deep Throat, and named their cloak-and-dagger fedored raincoated informer ‘Deep Throat’ partially in honor and partially in sleaze.

    Perhaps the most significant phenomenon is today’s multi billion dollar depraved porno industry, from that porno chic source.

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    • Replies: @guest
    Okay, but is it a coincidence that the title of the mainstream porno phenomenon of '72 happened to be appropriate for a leaker situated within the bowels of the FBI? If the movie had been called Boner Party, U.S.A., would Mark Felt have been nicknamed Boner Party instead?
    , @Forbes
    Mark Felt was the FBI official who authorized "black bag" operations against the Weather Underground, et al., in the '70s, that ultimately allowed terrorist/bombers such as Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn to walk free, describing themselves to be "guilty as sin, free as a bird."
    , @Frau Katze
    Whatever you call it, Mark Felt's actions were not driven by ideology but by the fact he was passed over for FBI head by Nixon.

    So Nixon had to pay. Fortunately for Felt, he had a way of hitting back at Nixon. Nixon's pre-election antics were enough to require him to step down.

    The opposition to Trump, what form is it taking? Well, if it's like the case of Mark Felt, we won't know for decades.

    It could be ideological or personal, but most important: does Trump have a weak point as Nixon did?
    , @Stan Adams
    Mark Felt wasn't happy about being named after a fictional vagina.

    Deep Throat was big in '72 ... Basic Instinct was a cultural phenomenon in 1992.

    There was a brief period in the early-to-mid-'90s when "erotic thrillers" were all the rage in Hollywood. The genre gained prominence in the '80s with Body Heat, Blue Velvet, 9 1/2 Weeks, and Fatal Attraction, but reached its tacky apex around the time that Clinton took office.

    This cinematic flowering led to such unforgettable flicks as:

    * Sliver, in which Sharon Stone keeps her legs closed and Billy Baldwin bares his rump not once but several times;
    * Body of Evidence, starring Madonna as a whore on trial for S&Ming a man to death and Willem Dafoe as her well-endowed lawyer; and
    * Boxing Helena, directed by Jessica Lynch, in which Mama's-boy Julian Sands wins nasty-bitch Sherilyn Fenn's love by kidnapping her and chopping off her legs and arms; she rewards him by coaching him in the art of lovemaking

    All three of these movies were among the most-hyped releases of 1993; all three of them flopped.

    (I like Enigma, and I like bad movies, so I have something of an appreciation for Sliver and Boxing Helena.)

    The genre breathed its last in the fall of 1995, when two Joe Eszterhas*-scripted films (Showgirls and Jade**) died at the box office within weeks of each other.

    This was around the time that O.J. Simpson was acquitted. That whole spectacle was yet another example of the weirdness permeating the pop-culture scene in the '90s. The trial's shameful ending signified that black men had come a long way, baby - after centuries of struggle, they could finally get away with murdering white women (and Jewish men) in cold blood.

    *Eszterhas wrote Basic Instinct and Sliver, as well. The latter was adapted from an Ira Levin novel.

    **Jade was one of the flops that David Caruso made after leaving NYPD Blue. Caruso's example - high-flying TV star quits hit show after one year, only to watch movie career crash and burn - inspired George Clooney to stay on ER a lot longer than he might have. Eszterhas claims that William Friedkin, the director, totally rewrote his script.
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  5. a says:

    In America, the right and left people are shouting past the other on television and in newspapers. They talk about different issues and news people say those are the same issues. They try extra hard now to convince people of their position by being louder. Black or white vision are in conflict so who will win when the world is gray? Foreign discussion of some unknown nature with Russia or other countries and deep state presence can happen at the same time.

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  6. Burton says:

    I’ve been thinking a lot about the Nixon/Trump parallels recently. These paragraphs from Christopher Caldwell’s (paywalled) 2014 review of Perlstein’s The Invisible Bridge are apt:

    [The Watergate investigation] was the response of a political establishment to an antiestablishment political movement. Nixon bound the Sunbelt, the South, disaffected urban Democrats, and supporters of the Vietnam War together with Republican businessmen and boosters, and he managed, in 1972, to win by what is still the largest popular margin (almost eighteen million votes) in US presidential history. The Watergate investigations, whatever their legal justification, had the political effect of damming a democratic tide.

    . . . If impeachment was warranted because Nixon was corrupt, it was actually carried out because he was weak and trusting and his party upstanding. Six GOP senators said in 1973 that they would not run for reelection unless Nixon spoke about the Watergate break-ins. Nixon’s successors have not made that mistake again, whether in last decade’s Iraq War inquiries or this decade’s allegations of IRS malfeasance. Therefore, no “system” worked in Watergate. It was a form of oversight that could be used only once, and on an administration caught by surprise.

    It is not far from this vantage to seeing Watergate as a kind of conspiracy or coup. Early on in the scandal, Democratic adviser Clark Clifford suggested a resolution of Watergate that involved Vice President Spiro Agnew’s resignation and the appointment of a successor acceptable to Congress, to be followed by Nixon’s resignation—almost exactly what happened over the following year and a half. North Carolina Republican senator Jesse Helms complained that the misdeeds of Nixon’s predecessors John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson made “Watergate look like a Sunday school picnic.” Nixon aide Patrick J. Buchanan testified that a lot of the administration’s “dirty tricks” were inspired by the Kennedy fixer and Watergate-era chairman of the Democratic Party, Larry O’Brien.

    This view, Perlstein shows, triumphed. In December 1975, the editorial page of the New York Times avowed: “By the time Richard Nixon became President, the practiced seaminess had become so entrenched that the deception of Watergate flowed with alarming naturalness.” By then, Senator Frank Church of Idaho, slated to investigate US intelligence abuses, had shown a “willful resistance,” as Perlstein puts it,

    in following his own evidence where it frequently led. He had imagined, when he took on this inquiry as his own, that it would help put the final nails in the coffin for the legacy of Richard M. Nixon. He hardly knew how to respond when so many of the most frightening discoveries pointed instead to the administration of John F. Kennedy—at whose 1960 convention he had delivered a striking keynote speech.

    A separate House inquiry, by Long Island Democratic representative Otis Pike, was suppressed by Congress itself . . .”

    http://www.bookforum.com/inprint/021_03/13631

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    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Abe

    I’ve been thinking a lot about the Nixon/Trump parallels recently.
     
    For all the interesting parallels, the big difference is Trump's King Kong-size cajones. I recently read a book on the history of US nuclear policy (yeah, I'm old) and was struck by an anecdote of how pathetic and self-pitying Nixon was as the end was coming with the denouement of Watergate. "They're trying to kill the President!" he'd wail to staffers. Even as he was feverishly working on the final details of the SALT treaty.

    Can't imagine Trump being such a basket-case, especially just because the newspapers were saying mean things about him. Nixon was supposedly the highest-IQ modern President, yet confidence, will, and fighting spirit should not be underestimated either.
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  7. It is an extraordinary contention for a sitting president to make.

    Crikey! Do I have to remind these MSM amateurs about history every frickin day?? Eisenhower specifically called out the “military-industrial complex” in his January 17th, 1961 Farewell Address to the nation:

    “In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military–industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted.”

    Also, this from Wikipedia:

    “In a U.S. context, the appellation given to it sometimes is extended to military–industrial–congressional complex (MICC), adding the U.S. Congress to form a three-sided relationship termed an iron triangle.[10] These relationships include political contributions, political approval for military spending, lobbying to support bureaucracies, and oversight of the industry; or more broadly to include the entire network of contracts and flows of money and resources among individuals as well as corporations and institutions of the defense contractors, private military contractors, The Pentagon, the Congress and executive branch.”

    Is it too much to ask these “journalists” to do even a cursory level of research before writing their opinions-masked-as-news?

    If Ike’s warning applies to defense, it most certainly applies to intelligence and statecraft.

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    • Replies: @ogunsiron
    Is it too much to ask these “journalists” to do even a cursory level of research before writing their opinions-masked-as-news?
    ----
    Yes it is. Among the few journalists who have even heard of Eisenhower, how many think he must have been some kind of nazi, given the time period and the german name ? You're asking way too much of those noxious idiots.
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  8. *Plume of smoke and fire* SILENCE, DEPLORABLE H8ers!! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!!!

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  9. slumber_j says:
    @fnn
    Michael Tracey's twitter feed has a lot of Deep State coverage.

    It's so insidious to portray concerns about the influence of the "Deep State" as somehow intrinsically right-wing. https://t.co/gbXELnVnE1 pic.twitter.com/bYrEsjrf4n— Michael Tracey (@mtracey) March 6, 2017
     

    He’s great.

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  10. They say France has over 50 percent of its GDP related to government expenditures. The American Empire most likely is close to hitting 40 percent. The privatization schemes that have been going on mask the true extent of just how many Americans work for the government. If your company is wholly reliant on government contracts for its existence, then you should be considered a government worker.

    President Trump must begin mass firings of DEEP STATE government workers. That means the national security state and just about every damn government worker who is currently grabbing money from the American Empire. Of course, I ain’t talking about most of the cops, firemen and road guys or the US military.

    President Trump should clean house at the CIA and the other human intelligence government workers. President Trump should only trust the signals intelligence side of the national security state. And trust but verify with that crowd as well. FIRE all the non-technical bastards at the NSA and other electronic surveillance outfits that are leaking all the electronic stuff.

    FIRE these overpaid DEEP STATE government worker slobs who think they run the American Empire. Those overpaid bastards have been running the American Empire into the ground for decades.

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    • Agree: Travis
    • Disagree: Abe
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    You know, Ive never understood, for hr life of me, ehybwe have all these redundant, civilian outfits in the first place. Shouldn't all the crap the NSA does be handled by cryptographers and similar rates (MOS) from the navy, army, and air force? We have a huge military outfit doing that kind of thibg already, why wasn't it grown and the stuff NSA does addd to its responsibilities?

    Likewise, the CIA should be remilitarised, back to its origins as the OSS: it should be a bunch of SEALs, pararescuemen, rangers, etc., no?

    Military personnel in the U.S.A. have historically and by international standards been astoundingly apolitical. The filters of having to undergo basic training and then the grueling stuff required to become a special operator themselves help weed out weirdos, dingbats, the antisocial, disloyal, etc. Being in the military makes accountability much easier, swifter, and harsher. No unions, no contracts, no bonuses and kickbacks through layers of contractors: your ass just belongs to Uncle Sam. You screw up, you get a court martial and a vacation in Leavenworth. Probably cheaper, too, then what civilians with inflated degrees from Harvard and Stanford demand.

    I'm probably missing something. I'm genuinely pretty ignorant about spook stuff. The FBI I get because their primary purpose is domestic law enforcement – you don't want the armed forces doing that. But I want to understand why all this other crap related to national defense isn't squarely within the bailiwick of the military.

    I'm genuinely seeking enlightenment with this post: what don't I understand?

    , @NOTA
    This can work, but only if Trump is okay with shrinking the range of stuff the US empire does. I'm sure there's bloat in the state department, but there's also a necessary size to the state department, pentagon, etc., when you plan to have a finger in every pot on the globe. If we mean to still be involved and intervening in every country on Earth, we will need that army of bureaucrats.

    In that case, Trump arrives at an old problem: the Czar can exile any one annoying bureaucrat to Siberia, but he's still dependent on the bureaucracy, so he can't exile them *all*.
    , @reiner Tor

    President Trump should only trust the signals intelligence side of the national security state.
     
    Signals intelligence? They are listening in to your smartphone and your kiddo's baby camera monitor. They are really nice guys.

    The sigint is the center of the surveillance state.
    , @Abe

    President Trump should clean house at the CIA and the other human intelligence government workers. President Trump should only trust the signals intelligence side of the national security state. And trust but verify with that crowd as well. FIRE all the non-technical bastards at the NSA and other electronic surveillance outfits that are leaking all the electronic stuff.
     
    Don't be like the cry-baby idiots at NYT, CNN, WaPO (aka Jeff Bezos's Totally Amazing Zine of Awesomeness).

    We need to keep shoving this truth into liberals' faces- Russians have an uncanny knack for intrigue (not to mention chess), and so why- if they hate Putin so much- are liberals and the Establishment so readily taking his bait? Trump is on the shortest leash of any modern President (and possibly any President ever). If there was any real chance of him being a Russian puppet, the neocon wing of the GOPe (pretty much the entire GOPe) would initiate impeachment proceedings in a heartbeat with Democrats in Congress trampling over each other to get on board.

    So wouldn't the canny Russian approach be to look like they helped Trump get in the White House (1 kiloton damage), let the Establishment work itself into a frenzy over the "hacking" allegations, which then leads to paralysis of the Executive as internal elements work to undermine Trump in the quixotic hopes he can be gotten rid of with enough leaks and scathing NYT editorials/SNL parodies (100 kiloton damage)? Which then provokes Trump and his supporters into purging the security apparatus of the United States, losing several generations of expertise (1 megaton damage)?

    I'm as mad as you about these efforts to discredit the President, but let's be adults here- the U.S. cannot afford a 1937 style 'housecleaning" of the CIA, FBI, and NSA.
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  11. Oh the left was all about the deep state all through Hoover and all through the rise of the cia nsa, and dhs,the fact they are now denying its existence confirms what we all know, the deep state has fallen

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  12. Tiny Duck says:

    If the “deep state” can stop the spread of nationalism (in other words racism) then the “deep state” is a good thing indeed

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    • Troll: IHTG, Daniel Chieh
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  13. Mr. Anon says:

    The concept of a “deep state” — a shadowy network of agency or military officials who secretly conspire to influence government policy — is more often used to describe countries like Egypt, Turkey and Pakistan, where authoritarian elements band together to undercut democratically elected leaders.

    And where organizations like the CIA support those “authoritarian elements” that make up the “deep state”. The CIA is already part of the “deep state” of Turkey, Pakistan, and likely dozens of other countries. Why is it outrageous to believe that they act much differently here?

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    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @Anonym
    And where organizations like the CIA support those “authoritarian elements” that make up the “deep state”. The CIA is already part of the “deep state” of Turkey, Pakistan, and likely dozens of other countries. Why is it outrageous to believe that they act much differently here?

    An example of that is probably Charles Murray's key insight in The Bell Curve about the situation brewing in white communities, that there were going to be marginalized IQ 130+ leaders remaining in the communities (capable of leading resistance). He had previously spent time in Laos? studying exactly the same sort of thing in rebel or potentially rebel communities.

    One can think of the members of intelligence agencies as something like political engineers, who figure out how to engineer a country's people and government to get the outcome they want. Most normal people have no idea how to do this, but I'm sure these experienced people come back here and the unethical ones among them immediately see the opportunity to do the same thing here. And of course, people in this line of work all have the highest standards of ethics, lol, most would never even consider doing such a thing!
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  14. Mr. Anon says:
    @Peter Akuleyev
    The irony is that Erdogan's rise to greater and greater power means that the Turkish "deep state" either never really existed, or was so extraordinarily weak and incompetent that it didn't matter much.

    The fact that unelected career bureaucrats often conspire to thwart democratically elected leaders is nothing new, and not particularly shocking. I am not sure it warrants the label "deep state".

    Eisenhower simply called it the "military-industrial complex", which is a more useful term because it recognizes the large degree of influence that money and corporations wield over US Government policy, whereas "deep state" makes more sense for state dominated economies in countries like Egypt or Russian where the industrial elites and the military/intelligence elites are often the same people.

    “Eisenhower simply called it the “military-industrial complex”, which is a more useful term because it recognizes the large degree of influence that money and corporations wield over US Government policy,…….”

    However, it neglects to mention other significant parts of that constellation of power: Intelligence agencies, the foreign policy establishment, and now – I would argue – think-tanks and academia. Intelligence agencies should be of particular concern: knowing other people’s secrets is power.

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    • Agree: Kylie
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  15. Ozwaldo says:

    Who can forget such rabid right-wing movies such as Three Days of the Condor, The Parallax View, etc. One might think Hollywood invented the idea in the 1970s. The last shot of Condor shows Redford outside the old NY Times building on W 43rd street realizing how deep the deep state is.

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    • Replies: @Abe

    Who can forget such rabid right-wing movies such as Three Days of the Condor
     
    I was about to bring up that flick myself. Robert Redford (who'd next year star in another "America's always been great" crowd-pleaser called ALL THE PRESIDENT'S MEN) plays a scrub CIA analyst who inadvertently stumbles on a plot to take over foreign oil fields, and so gets his entire junior varsity 2nd-string office liquidated by a professional hitman.

    I can't believe with all the MSM armchair quarterbacking over how dumb the Bush Administration was for cashiering all of Sadaam's colonels and so creating chaos/the Sunni insurgency, that they'd fail to recognize this was probably a reaction to the media's own decades long campaign of vilifying and discrediting the military, police, and intelligence services. Indeed some of the most prominent neocons in the administration (Wolfowitz, Perle) would have been youngish Democrats when CONDOR came out, and therefore particularly prone to its emotional pull and so seeking to make amends in 2003 by not repeating the sins of 1953 (Mosaddegh), but instead trying to truly democratize/de-Baath-ize Iraqi society, with tragic but predictable results.

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  16. Thea says:
    @fnn
    Michael Tracey's twitter feed has a lot of Deep State coverage.

    It's so insidious to portray concerns about the influence of the "Deep State" as somehow intrinsically right-wing. https://t.co/gbXELnVnE1 pic.twitter.com/bYrEsjrf4n— Michael Tracey (@mtracey) March 6, 2017
     

    He is part of the principled left I thought no longer existed. He would have given me treason trials for the Bush admin that I sorely missed under Obama.

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  17. Veracitor says:
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    • Replies: @dcthrowback
    This dovetails nicely with Ben Bradlee's doubts that Woodward & Bernstein were telling him the full truth in regards to Deep Throat and Watergate.

    Further, Roger Stone's book indicated that the original break in was a result of John Dean's wanting to know if he is girl (Maureen Biner) was a working prostitute for Larry O'Brien's DNC. She was.
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  18. dearieme says:
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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    It just shows how much of a liar Trump is. The CIA wiretaps hundreds of millions of people, how could Trump find himself on such a long list? Besides, it is all secret, no judge or president is ever told about it. Obviously Trump was just pulling this out of his ass! The liar.
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  19. Ben Frank says:

    It’s time for a PATCO moment. When Reagan let go the 13,000 striking air traffic controllers in 1981, it broke the momentum of inflation, where every round of raises caused a round of price hikes, which caused a round of raises, and so on. It was a shock, but a shock that the system needed.

    The FBI employs 35,000 people. Firing thousands of politically-compromised and/or unproductive employees would not put us in danger, and would change the Deep State’s assumption that they are in command.

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  20. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    How dare anyone criticize the CIA?!?

    In the 1980s, good thinkers on college campuses were very critical of the CIA. Some even tried to prevent the CIA from coming to campuses to conduct job interviews with students.

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  21. Ben Frank says: • Website

    NYT website traffic seems to be slipping:

    http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/nytimes.com

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  22. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “ ‘Deep state’ I would never use,” Michael V. Hayden, the former Central Intelligence Agency director under both Mr. Obama and former President George Bush, said on MSNBC on Monday. “That’s a phrase we’ve used for Turkey and other countries like that, but not the American republic.”

    I’m shocked, but Charles Krauthammer doesn’t seem to like the term “deep state” either (see link below).

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=la8EtC0jkyg (listen starting at 0:50)

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    • Replies: @NOTA
    The term may have a very diffferent practical meaning here than in Turkey.
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  23. @Peter Akuleyev
    The irony is that Erdogan's rise to greater and greater power means that the Turkish "deep state" either never really existed, or was so extraordinarily weak and incompetent that it didn't matter much.

    The fact that unelected career bureaucrats often conspire to thwart democratically elected leaders is nothing new, and not particularly shocking. I am not sure it warrants the label "deep state".

    Eisenhower simply called it the "military-industrial complex", which is a more useful term because it recognizes the large degree of influence that money and corporations wield over US Government policy, whereas "deep state" makes more sense for state dominated economies in countries like Egypt or Russian where the industrial elites and the military/intelligence elites are often the same people.

    WEll, it bascially took Erdogan most of a generation between first being elected to power and his final triumph over the Kemalist deep state.

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    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Yes, and he very consciously and carefully created his own anti-Kemal Deep State, one brick at a time.
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  24. I’m old enough to remember when Obama’s speechwriter/foreign policy guy Ben Rhodes called the Deep STate “the Blob.”

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  25. Kirt says:

    American exceptionalism strikes again. Only other countries have deep states; America is totally free of conspirators.

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  26. Josh says:

    The CIA tried to create mind control assassins. I mean, it probably didn’t work but that’s the kind of people we are talking about. It was basically the bankers’ KGB.

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  27. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Deep State is ‘American’ but ‘Deep State’is un-American.

    So, let the manipulators go on manipulating, but you better not notice.

    The elites go deep while you just go to sleep.

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  28. Whiskey says: • Website

    Obama is the first President ever to both stick around in DC, and be part of an overt effort to overthrow the Presidency of his successor from another Party. The only other partial example is TR vs. Taft, but TR did not stay in DC and Taft was his hand-picked successor.

    Nor is it clear what Obama’s endgame is, whereas TR had a clear one — re-elect himself instead of Taft in the next election. Remove Trump and Pence and what … install Oprah via a House vote agreed upon by Paul Ryan? Bob Iger of Disney? Zuck? George Clooney? All have been mooted about as potential Presidents.

    Rather than Deep State I prefer Murray’s SuperZips. Because the latter describes the terrible insularity of the same people marrying each other, being each other’s cronies, living in about five zip codes, going to the same five schools, and living in the same three urban zones.

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    • Replies: @ic1000
    Charles Murray never coined the phrase SuperZips, nor did he write "Coming Apart." Or "Human Accomplishment." However, he did co-author "The Bell Curve," which has been completely discredited.

    If you had gone to Middlebury College, you would know that.
    , @george
    "the same people marrying each other"

    There may be more of an aristocracy in the US than you think. Children of government officials entering government. From the military to local police and school systems. One reason for very early retirement of government workers might be so that their children can find jobs easily.
    , @Jefferson
    "Obama is the first President ever to both stick around in DC,"

    Barack Hussein Obama doesn't miss living in Chicago. I wonder why? Is Chicago overrated?
    , @Lugash

    Nor is it clear what Obama’s endgame is, whereas TR had a clear one — re-elect himself instead of Taft in the next election. Remove Trump and Pence and what … install Oprah via a House vote agreed upon by Paul Ryan? Bob Iger of Disney? Zuck? George Clooney? All have been mooted about as potential Presidents.
     
    I think Obama's been selected as the figure head for the Resistance to rally around. The Deep State finally wised up enough to figure out that Hilary's too old, senile and corrupt to remove Trump. Since Obama's too lazy to actually do anything, others will do the actual resistance. As you noted Jarrett has moved back into the Obama residence.

    Short term, they just want Trump out. Pence can be managed, and would probably cuck out on his own anyway. Long term they'll try a better presidential candidate. No need for Constitutional machinations or Hollywood candidates.

    , @Kyle McKenna
    OMG, Oprah. About the only demos she wouldn't command would be white & asian males over 120 IQ. And maybe some random trailer trash.

    It's hers, if she wants it. Trump vs Oprah in 2020 would be more fun than I even expected to have in this life.

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  29. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Washington Post website traffic too. What happened to those millions of Chinese
    readers?

    http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/washingtonpost.com

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  30. guest says:
    @Anonymous
    Of course, the 'deep' in 'Deep Throat' doesn't refer to a mole buried somewhere in the bowels of the FBI, and neither does 'Throat' refer to the said mole's vocalization of dirty little secrets, no. Rather it refers to that strange era in post-Vietnam malaised America, the 'porno-chic' phase in which that mob-financed dirty little movie 'Deep Throat' was hailed by those who should have known better as the 'cultural' highlight of 1972. Messrs Bernstein and Woodward met Mark Felt directly after a 'viewing' of Deep Throat, and named their cloak-and-dagger fedored raincoated informer 'Deep Throat' partially in honor and partially in sleaze.

    Perhaps the most significant phenomenon is today's multi billion dollar depraved porno industry, from that porno chic source.

    Okay, but is it a coincidence that the title of the mainstream porno phenomenon of ’72 happened to be appropriate for a leaker situated within the bowels of the FBI? If the movie had been called Boner Party, U.S.A., would Mark Felt have been nicknamed Boner Party instead?

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  31. GregMan says:

    “NYT: The Term “Deep State” Is Downright Un-American!”

    Well, the NYT is downright un-American too, so I suppose they know what they are talking about.

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  32. ic1000 says:
    @Whiskey
    Obama is the first President ever to both stick around in DC, and be part of an overt effort to overthrow the Presidency of his successor from another Party. The only other partial example is TR vs. Taft, but TR did not stay in DC and Taft was his hand-picked successor.

    Nor is it clear what Obama's endgame is, whereas TR had a clear one -- re-elect himself instead of Taft in the next election. Remove Trump and Pence and what ... install Oprah via a House vote agreed upon by Paul Ryan? Bob Iger of Disney? Zuck? George Clooney? All have been mooted about as potential Presidents.

    Rather than Deep State I prefer Murray's SuperZips. Because the latter describes the terrible insularity of the same people marrying each other, being each other's cronies, living in about five zip codes, going to the same five schools, and living in the same three urban zones.

    Charles Murray never coined the phrase SuperZips, nor did he write “Coming Apart.” Or “Human Accomplishment.” However, he did co-author “The Bell Curve,” which has been completely discredited.

    If you had gone to Middlebury College, you would know that.

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    • LOL: Coemgen
    • Replies: @Yak-15
    "Superzips" triggers my racism radar.
    , @Neil Templeton
    I agree. "The Bell Curve", which I've never read, is totally discredited.
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  33. guest says:

    I didn’t read the article, and don’t want to, but I wonder, did they go the fascism route? If not, it’s only a matter of time. I don’t mean conspiracy theories about the Joos. I mean the “ominously parallels” between the “drain the swamp” ideology of Team Trump and thinkers with connections to fascism, like Gaetano Mosca ( The Ruling Class), Robert Michels (Political Parties), and Vilfredo Pareto (Rise and Fall of the Elites). Team Trump has already vocalized heretical knowledge of the forbidden texts of Julius Evola, not to mention the downright Hitlerian music of one Giacomo Puccini.

    It is well-known–in my brain as I make it up on the fly–that these evil right-wing (though possibly socialist, but what does that matter? We all know who national socialists were), mostly Italian or Italian-y (Michels was a German, as you can tell by his name, who I think ended up in Italy) but who for convenience’s sake we’ll call Nazis, influenced the Paranoid Style in American Politics. The kind which found popularity in the discredited (by the left-wing MSM and educational system) John Birch/Joe McCarthy supposedly anti-communist but really anti-midcentury consensus liberalism. (That’s what they’d say, anyway.)

    When the New Left, for instance, was paranoid about Cointelpro or Richard Nixon, it was because those forces were fascist, so it was okay. Trump is a fascist, so he’s not allowed to be paranoid, ipso facto. In fact, he not allowed to do anything, and should go home and let NYT-approved people take over. Loyal functionaries in the federal bureaucracy and especially the CIA should handle that if he doesn’t leave voluntarily. Not that the public should be informed, because they can’t handle the truth. Better it be done in secret so we can maintain the illusion of democracy.

    But that wouldn’t be the Deep State at work, or anything. What are you, a fascist Bircher, McCarthyite, Nixonian, Trumpster?

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    • Replies: @fnn
    Semi-secret Alt-Right hand signal sighted at the White House:
    http://logicalmeme.com/?p=10066

    Largely unnoticed, however, was a curious hand gesture made by the 10-year-old toward the end of the footage. In a simpler time, the gesture could have been written off as an “ok” symbol… but not today. The hand movement bears a striking similarity to one that has often been made by the ultimate Trump meme warrior, Pepe the Frog.
     
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson

    What are you, a fascist Bircher, McCarthyite, Nixonian, Trumpster?
     
    If you allow separation of fascist and Bircher, then 4/5, otherwise 3/4.

    Nixon was an idiot, but sometimes a smart politician. The rest of the time he thought implementing the Left's agenda would inoculate him from the witchhunts of the moonbats. He could not have been more wrong - and he threw the country under the bus to enhance his standing.

    No doubt LBJ has expressed his admiration for Nixon, as both swim about the Lake.
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  34. Forbes says:
    @Anonymous
    Of course, the 'deep' in 'Deep Throat' doesn't refer to a mole buried somewhere in the bowels of the FBI, and neither does 'Throat' refer to the said mole's vocalization of dirty little secrets, no. Rather it refers to that strange era in post-Vietnam malaised America, the 'porno-chic' phase in which that mob-financed dirty little movie 'Deep Throat' was hailed by those who should have known better as the 'cultural' highlight of 1972. Messrs Bernstein and Woodward met Mark Felt directly after a 'viewing' of Deep Throat, and named their cloak-and-dagger fedored raincoated informer 'Deep Throat' partially in honor and partially in sleaze.

    Perhaps the most significant phenomenon is today's multi billion dollar depraved porno industry, from that porno chic source.

    Mark Felt was the FBI official who authorized “black bag” operations against the Weather Underground, et al., in the ’70s, that ultimately allowed terrorist/bombers such as Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn to walk free, describing themselves to be “guilty as sin, free as a bird.”

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  35. Cagey Beast says: • Website

    People in the NYT insisting “the US doesn’t have a Deep State, it just has ….” reminds me of the time someone I know called a restaurant in Vancouver to make a reservation. The person answering the phone said “I’m sorry, we don’t take reservations but if you give me your name and tell me when you plan to dine, we can hold a table for you”.

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  36. Zach says:
    @Peter Akuleyev
    The irony is that Erdogan's rise to greater and greater power means that the Turkish "deep state" either never really existed, or was so extraordinarily weak and incompetent that it didn't matter much.

    The fact that unelected career bureaucrats often conspire to thwart democratically elected leaders is nothing new, and not particularly shocking. I am not sure it warrants the label "deep state".

    Eisenhower simply called it the "military-industrial complex", which is a more useful term because it recognizes the large degree of influence that money and corporations wield over US Government policy, whereas "deep state" makes more sense for state dominated economies in countries like Egypt or Russian where the industrial elites and the military/intelligence elites are often the same people.

    Erdogan’s rise does not contradict the existence of the deep state in Turkey. Rather there are probably conflicts within it. In Turkey, the Gullenists talked about changing the Turkish government from within as a corrective to the influence of the IMF and the CIA, which should be counted as part of the Turkish deep state (as well as a Turkish Mafia). It’s hard to know who makes things happen in Turkey like, for instance, the assassination of Hrant Dink.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrant_Dink

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  37. What is the nation? The president with the people at his back is the nation. The Deep State is a parasite and a usurper. If we stand with Trump we can defeat this thing.

    The Wikileaks Vault 7 dump might just be the most profound case of “Trump’s Luck” ever. Truly a 9.8 on the Richter Scale of Trump-luckitude. First he angrily denounces the fact that he was wiretapped by Obama; then the media mocks him for saying so; and now Wikileaks reveals that the CIA has been bugging everyone to within an inch of their life.

    We also now know why the Deep State has been pushing the nonsensical “Russia hacked the election” meme. It’s because they hacked the election with Russian malware in order to deliberately leave false fingerprints behind, and they just wanted to make sure everybody noticed. It’s all out in the open now. Goodbye, Deep State.

    (On a side note, now I also know why my computer runs slower and uses up memory space for no identifiable reason. It’s acting as a proxy server for the CIA.)

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    The allegation that Russia hacked the election results is prolefeed.

    The actual allegations seem to be:

    -Trump owes Russian banks a substantial sum
    -Trump covered up his taxes for that reason
    -Trump isn't a billionaire
    -Trump had a deal for debt forgiveness that involved recognizing Crimea
    -Trump promised no retaliation in exchange for Russia hacking the DNC

    As far as I know, there isn't much evidence for any of these claims. Believing even one of them assumes that Putin is a reckless gambler who just pulled off the greatest upset in power politics since Louis XVI backed us in the Revolution. But yet he couldn't cover his tracks from the NYT and WaPo.

    It is much easier to cut through the Gordian knot to see the real agenda:

    The permanent political class wants to overthrow Putin for the following reasons:

    -Putin has resisted Cultural Marxism
    -Putin obstructed the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood
    -Putin supports Iran as a counterbalance to US hegemony
    -Jewish tribal hate towards the Russian Orthodox

    Tayip Erdogan is a far bigger threat to us than Putin.
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  38. @Charles Pewitt
    They say France has over 50 percent of its GDP related to government expenditures. The American Empire most likely is close to hitting 40 percent. The privatization schemes that have been going on mask the true extent of just how many Americans work for the government. If your company is wholly reliant on government contracts for its existence, then you should be considered a government worker.

    President Trump must begin mass firings of DEEP STATE government workers. That means the national security state and just about every damn government worker who is currently grabbing money from the American Empire. Of course, I ain't talking about most of the cops, firemen and road guys or the US military.

    President Trump should clean house at the CIA and the other human intelligence government workers. President Trump should only trust the signals intelligence side of the national security state. And trust but verify with that crowd as well. FIRE all the non-technical bastards at the NSA and other electronic surveillance outfits that are leaking all the electronic stuff.

    FIRE these overpaid DEEP STATE government worker slobs who think they run the American Empire. Those overpaid bastards have been running the American Empire into the ground for decades.

    You know, Ive never understood, for hr life of me, ehybwe have all these redundant, civilian outfits in the first place. Shouldn’t all the crap the NSA does be handled by cryptographers and similar rates (MOS) from the navy, army, and air force? We have a huge military outfit doing that kind of thibg already, why wasn’t it grown and the stuff NSA does addd to its responsibilities?

    Likewise, the CIA should be remilitarised, back to its origins as the OSS: it should be a bunch of SEALs, pararescuemen, rangers, etc., no?

    Military personnel in the U.S.A. have historically and by international standards been astoundingly apolitical. The filters of having to undergo basic training and then the grueling stuff required to become a special operator themselves help weed out weirdos, dingbats, the antisocial, disloyal, etc. Being in the military makes accountability much easier, swifter, and harsher. No unions, no contracts, no bonuses and kickbacks through layers of contractors: your ass just belongs to Uncle Sam. You screw up, you get a court martial and a vacation in Leavenworth. Probably cheaper, too, then what civilians with inflated degrees from Harvard and Stanford demand.

    I’m probably missing something. I’m genuinely pretty ignorant about spook stuff. The FBI I get because their primary purpose is domestic law enforcement – you don’t want the armed forces doing that. But I want to understand why all this other crap related to national defense isn’t squarely within the bailiwick of the military.

    I’m genuinely seeking enlightenment with this post: what don’t I understand?

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    • Agree: Travis
    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    In fact, uniformed servicemen operate most of the collection apparatus on behalf of the NSA. Collection platforms include all sorts of aircraft, some the size of wide-body airliners, ships, subs, and land stations running from Yorkshire to the Australian Outback.

    The civilians at the NSA fill advanced technical and analytical positions. It is very tough to get first rate mathematicians and computer scientists to stay in the military for long, especially as enlisted men. A lot of career NSAers today are the sort who would have joined Bell Labs or some other part of Ma Bell, back in the day.
    , @Travis
    in addition why do we have a department of Homeland Security ? The Department of Defense should cover everything the department of Homeland Security does. it is redundant to have 2 departments with the sole aim of defending the United States.
    , @guest
    To understand why the CIA and other agencies came into existence, you can't look at it rationally. You have to dig into the history. Then it comes down to timing, what was needed (or was thought to be needed) when, "mission creep," public political games we no longer remember, outside pressures (the other guys' CIA), the special needs someone thought only the CIA could deliver upon (you know, establishing ties to all the worst people in the world, wasting money, murdering people), personalities (Truman trusted this guy instead of that to give him information at such and such a time, or whatever), and factional struggles.

    But those last two are "conspiracy theory" territory. No, no, decisions aren't made by actual people with actual loyalties to things other than Truth, Justice and the American Blah. They're made by experts with slide rules, or something.
    , @anon
    question

    You know, Ive never understood, for hr life of me, ehybwe have all these redundant, civilian outfits in the first place.
     
    answer

    Military personnel in the U.S.A. have historically and by international standards been astoundingly apolitical.
     
    someone wanted an org that wasn't full of straight edge types
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  39. There’s an almost psychotic detachment from reality in the reporting of the Times and the WaPo of late. Reports like this are generated even while the very things that they claim don’t really exist have been reported on at endless length in that very publication, and just weeks or even days before.

    Here, they want to dismiss as conspiracy theorizing the idea that elements of the state are working to undermine the President even while they themselves report the illegal leaks from those elements that undermine the President. Likewise, Trump’s idea that Obama’s administration was out to tap his communications is held to be crazy and “without evidence” even though they themselves report on, again, illegal leaks of accounts of conversations from tapped conversations involving Trump’s team.

    It’s not just out-of-control spin anymore — it’s a form of psychosis.

    Nowadays I picture them all in their “newsroom” breaking down into tears like Mika on MSNBC, simply unable to cope.

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    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @anon

    It’s not just out-of-control spin anymore — it’s a form of psychosis.
     
    yup - triggeredbytrump
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  40. Left unsaid:

    Why is nobody addressing how THE NEW YORK TIMES is defending the honor of the CIA?

    Didn’t liberals used to hate the CIA?

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Left unsaid:

    Why is nobody addressing how THE NEW YORK TIMES is defending the honor of the CIA?

    Didn’t liberals used to hate the CIA?"

    Barack Hussein Obama made it cool for the Left to embrace the CIA.
    , @guest
    Didn't liberals used to hate bombing innocent children in the Middle East? Didn't liberals used to stand up for the working man? Didn't liberals used to do anything but find perversions to make into new identity groups and force us to love them like our own mothers (if we're allowed to love our mothers; are biological families still PC?)

    This is gang warfare, not the Consistency Olympics.
    , @phil
    The Alinskyites used to be on the Outside. Now they are on the Inside.
    , @anon
    The banking mafia make billions from cheap labor and off-shoring.

    Trump threatens that.

    The banking mafia own the media and getting rid of Trump is now higher priority for them than the usual Left-Right puppet show designed to make people think they live in a democracy.
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  41. @Peter Akuleyev
    The irony is that Erdogan's rise to greater and greater power means that the Turkish "deep state" either never really existed, or was so extraordinarily weak and incompetent that it didn't matter much.

    The fact that unelected career bureaucrats often conspire to thwart democratically elected leaders is nothing new, and not particularly shocking. I am not sure it warrants the label "deep state".

    Eisenhower simply called it the "military-industrial complex", which is a more useful term because it recognizes the large degree of influence that money and corporations wield over US Government policy, whereas "deep state" makes more sense for state dominated economies in countries like Egypt or Russian where the industrial elites and the military/intelligence elites are often the same people.

    Eisenhower simply called it the “military-industrial complex”

    It was the wrong label – the military is the tamest of the government agencies because politicking is not just a firing offense, it’s grounds for a court martial. A more accurate one would be surveillance, regulatory, welfare-state industrial complex, which also dwarfs military spending 6 to 1.

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  42. Speaking of high energy, there’s this from the WaPo, via Breitbart:

    April D. Ryan, White House correspondent and Washington bureau chief for American Urban Radio Networks, tells this blog that “this pace of covering this new president is unsustainable for the long haul.”

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2017/03/07/wapo-trump-may-outlast-white-house-press-corps-with-unsustainable-pace/

    I have an idea that in covering Trump many of the political reporters across the nation will soon be reduced to crying heaps of fatigue like poor little Mika. It’s hard enough to keep up with the pace of a man like Trump who purportedly sleeps only 3-4 hours a night if one is just doing unemotional work — but how does one do so while maintaining constant, emotionally exhausting, outrage?

    That’s when angry snowflakes melt.

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    • Agree: Abe
    • Replies: @Abe

    I have an idea that in covering Trump many of the political reporters across the nation will soon be reduced to crying heaps of fatigue like poor little Mika. It’s hard enough to keep up with the pace of a man like Trump who purportedly sleeps only 3-4 hours a night if one is just doing unemotional work — but how does one do so while maintaining constant, emotionally exhausting, outrage?

    That’s when angry snowflakes melt.
     

    "Who the God(-emperor)s wish to destroy, they first make mad."

    I've been thinking this is in fact not a bug, but THE MOST IMPORTANT FEATURE of the Trump Presidency. At first- being an easy-going, get-along-at-heart type of guy- I too couldn't really stomach the roller-coaster ride that was his candidacy, and to my everlasting shame secretly wished he'd drop out so that Pence could get in his one good shot at Her Majesty (amazingly things looked so bleak that the man who's now Trump's chief-of-staff actually acted on the same impulse and tried getting him to throw in the towel).

    Since, then, though, I've toughened up, and most importantly stopped caring what the media says about the President. We've tried reasoning with liberals for decades, and with a few honorable exceptions (Greenwald, Assange) they've become more mendacious, more illogical, and more deluded, to the extent that many of them are the most high-functioning, yet operationally-insane people in human history. These are folks with multiple Ivy League degrees, upper middle class zip codes, and often millions of $'s of net-wealth who at the same believe Jews and Muslims are natural allies, that Third World population explosion is unrelated to climate change, and that feminism is advanced by importing 1,000's of hairy, blue-balled Syrians.

    For the good of our civilization, we need to psychologically break these people so that we can build them up again into effective, responsible citizens, and Trump is just the mental bulldozer to do so. I honestly fantasize about starting a Trump-themed chain of psychologists' offices to help deal with Trump Stress Disorder- not from the stand-point of coping techniques to survive the next four years, but some serious brain drillin' of the "What's wrong with you? Why do you believe so many absurd and harmful ideas and then attack those who are trying to make this country great again?" sort. All with the utmost and sincere love in my heart, of course ;-)

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  43. Rotten says:

    Steve, it might be a good idea to bump some of your posts about Michael Hastings in light of today’s Wikileaks confirming that the CIA had access to hack the onboard computer systems of cars.

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  44. Nice newspaper you got there. Be a shame if something happened to it.

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  45. J1234 says:

    How dare anyone criticize the CIA?!?

    Yeah, isn’t a huge part of the Hollywood film industry built on that theme?

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  46. george says:
    @Whiskey
    Obama is the first President ever to both stick around in DC, and be part of an overt effort to overthrow the Presidency of his successor from another Party. The only other partial example is TR vs. Taft, but TR did not stay in DC and Taft was his hand-picked successor.

    Nor is it clear what Obama's endgame is, whereas TR had a clear one -- re-elect himself instead of Taft in the next election. Remove Trump and Pence and what ... install Oprah via a House vote agreed upon by Paul Ryan? Bob Iger of Disney? Zuck? George Clooney? All have been mooted about as potential Presidents.

    Rather than Deep State I prefer Murray's SuperZips. Because the latter describes the terrible insularity of the same people marrying each other, being each other's cronies, living in about five zip codes, going to the same five schools, and living in the same three urban zones.

    “the same people marrying each other”

    There may be more of an aristocracy in the US than you think. Children of government officials entering government. From the military to local police and school systems. One reason for very early retirement of government workers might be so that their children can find jobs easily.

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    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson

    One reason for very early retirement of government workers might be so that their children can find jobs easily.
     
    Or the fact that they have a cushy pension - I doubt they think beyond their own life. If they did, they wouldn't work so hard to turn American into a 3rd-world cesspool.
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  47. Svigor says:

    1. Fire every Hussein-era hire in the entire security apparatus, starting at the top. Replace them with military intelligence people, non-intel-related FBI employees, etc.
    2. After giving the new hires a few months to get up to speed, fire every pre-Hussein-era hire in the entire Security apparatus, starting at the top. Replace them with military intelligence people, non-intel-related FBI employees, etc.
    3. Begin targeted replacement of contractors in the security apparatus, starting with the most problematic. Replace them, where necessary, with new ones.

    There will be critics who say that this will reduce the efficacy of our security apparatus, but I say that given the nature of our current security apparatus, reducing its efficacy would be a good thing.

    I’m shocked, but Charles Krauthammer doesn’t seem to like the term “deep state” either (see link below).

    It’s a short walk from “deep state” to “nation within a nation.”

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    • Replies: @guest
    Imperium in imperio? (I don't have anything to add; I just like that phrase.)
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    Charles Krauthammer, neocon of the NeoCons. worked for the socialist Mondale. Thinks a rich nation like the USA should make health care a right and an entitlement. But doesn't like the term deep state - even though the Deep State has been on the Front Page from the election of Trump until now.

    Krauthammer is not an advocate for the American people. But he has a good gig - getting paid to the 'conservative' conscience of the Fox News viewers. And Trump likes him! What is Trump thinking?
    , @Neil Templeton
    No. Clear-cutting is not the appropriate response in this situation. Rather, run a ground fire through the impaired agencies. By this I mean a test that applies sustained stress to employees coupled with a measured response. The test should be designed in every agency to separate the fit from the infirm. Repeat again after five years, then ten.
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  48. RudyM says:

    I envy the perennial innocence and naivete of NYT writers.

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  49. anon • Disclaimer says:

    With the media so interested in Russian hacking you’d think they’d spend more time on what was hacked

    - like Clinton’s emails to the state dept. over Saudi Arabia and Qatar funding Isis

    (and Turkish SF training them)

    (and elements in the CIA giving them missiles which might one day take down a US airliner in the US).

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  50. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @candid_observer
    There's an almost psychotic detachment from reality in the reporting of the Times and the WaPo of late. Reports like this are generated even while the very things that they claim don't really exist have been reported on at endless length in that very publication, and just weeks or even days before.

    Here, they want to dismiss as conspiracy theorizing the idea that elements of the state are working to undermine the President even while they themselves report the illegal leaks from those elements that undermine the President. Likewise, Trump's idea that Obama's administration was out to tap his communications is held to be crazy and "without evidence" even though they themselves report on, again, illegal leaks of accounts of conversations from tapped conversations involving Trump's team.

    It's not just out-of-control spin anymore -- it's a form of psychosis.

    Nowadays I picture them all in their "newsroom" breaking down into tears like Mika on MSNBC, simply unable to cope.

    It’s not just out-of-control spin anymore — it’s a form of psychosis.

    yup – triggeredbytrump

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  51. Deep Throat was a composite character Woodward and Bernstein created in the second draft of All The President’s Men. Felt’s becoming Deep Throat is an example of The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance maxim.

    Why Woodward was being leaked to remains an interesting question. He had only been at the Washington Post for a year.

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    • Replies: @Lugash
    Woodward was a naval communications officer and a member of all the right clubs at Yale, so he was vetted.
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  52. NOTA says:
    @Charles Pewitt
    They say France has over 50 percent of its GDP related to government expenditures. The American Empire most likely is close to hitting 40 percent. The privatization schemes that have been going on mask the true extent of just how many Americans work for the government. If your company is wholly reliant on government contracts for its existence, then you should be considered a government worker.

    President Trump must begin mass firings of DEEP STATE government workers. That means the national security state and just about every damn government worker who is currently grabbing money from the American Empire. Of course, I ain't talking about most of the cops, firemen and road guys or the US military.

    President Trump should clean house at the CIA and the other human intelligence government workers. President Trump should only trust the signals intelligence side of the national security state. And trust but verify with that crowd as well. FIRE all the non-technical bastards at the NSA and other electronic surveillance outfits that are leaking all the electronic stuff.

    FIRE these overpaid DEEP STATE government worker slobs who think they run the American Empire. Those overpaid bastards have been running the American Empire into the ground for decades.

    This can work, but only if Trump is okay with shrinking the range of stuff the US empire does. I’m sure there’s bloat in the state department, but there’s also a necessary size to the state department, pentagon, etc., when you plan to have a finger in every pot on the globe. If we mean to still be involved and intervening in every country on Earth, we will need that army of bureaucrats.

    In that case, Trump arrives at an old problem: the Czar can exile any one annoying bureaucrat to Siberia, but he’s still dependent on the bureaucracy, so he can’t exile them *all*.

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    • Replies: @anon
    The problem is that a normal business dumps 'non strategic' subsidiaries when they are under financial pressure.

    To these guys, nothing is 'non strategic'. And the US is rich nation.
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  53. NOTA says:
    @Anonymous
    “ ‘Deep state’ I would never use,” Michael V. Hayden, the former Central Intelligence Agency director under both Mr. Obama and former President George Bush, said on MSNBC on Monday. “That’s a phrase we’ve used for Turkey and other countries like that, but not the American republic.”

    I'm shocked, but Charles Krauthammer doesn't seem to like the term "deep state" either (see link below).

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=la8EtC0jkyg (listen starting at 0:50)

    The term may have a very diffferent practical meaning here than in Turkey.

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  54. MarkinLA says:

    Well if this is true, the idea that anybody can determine who hacked who is unlikely.

    http://www.thetradingreport.com/2017/03/07/wikileaks-unveils-vault-7-the-largest-ever-publication-of-confidential-cia-documents-another-snowden-emerges/

    The whole story about Russian hackers leaving traces of their hacking start to look even more fishy than when they first came out.

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  55. The thought occurred to me that there is a reason for the seemingly absurd claim that Trump is a Russian agent. And it’s not only a Hitlerian “big lie” on the part of Democrats

    I don’t believe even most Democrats making this claim believe this nonsense.

    A more subtle explanation is that accusing him of being under foreign influence makes a host of otherwise illegal surveillance methods now fair game.

    In order for Obama to legally monitor the Trump campaign and then monitor Trump as President-elect the claim had to be made, however absurd, that foreign agents were involved. This makes the surveillance that the President has lately been complaining about legal

    It’s clear that Obama and top Democrats could not care less whether their actions followed the letter of the law. There may have been intelligence underlings whose cooperation was necessary to implement the surveillance that might have balked without the figleaf of foreign influence

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  56. Lugash says:
    @C. Van Carter
    Deep Throat was a composite character Woodward and Bernstein created in the second draft of All The President's Men. Felt's becoming Deep Throat is an example of The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance maxim.

    Why Woodward was being leaked to remains an interesting question. He had only been at the Washington Post for a year.

    Woodward was a naval communications officer and a member of all the right clubs at Yale, so he was vetted.

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    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Lugash:

    Yes, he's a prime member of the Deep State - WASP Division. One example, at Yale he was a member of the prestigious secretive Book and Snake Society. The US Navy service via Yale NROTC is another tip off.
    , @Anonymous
    Bob Woodward sounds a little like Mr. Rogers when he speaks.
    , @PV van der Byl
    That much makes sense to me. But, Bernstein was a red diaper baby.
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  57. @Charles Pewitt
    They say France has over 50 percent of its GDP related to government expenditures. The American Empire most likely is close to hitting 40 percent. The privatization schemes that have been going on mask the true extent of just how many Americans work for the government. If your company is wholly reliant on government contracts for its existence, then you should be considered a government worker.

    President Trump must begin mass firings of DEEP STATE government workers. That means the national security state and just about every damn government worker who is currently grabbing money from the American Empire. Of course, I ain't talking about most of the cops, firemen and road guys or the US military.

    President Trump should clean house at the CIA and the other human intelligence government workers. President Trump should only trust the signals intelligence side of the national security state. And trust but verify with that crowd as well. FIRE all the non-technical bastards at the NSA and other electronic surveillance outfits that are leaking all the electronic stuff.

    FIRE these overpaid DEEP STATE government worker slobs who think they run the American Empire. Those overpaid bastards have been running the American Empire into the ground for decades.

    President Trump should only trust the signals intelligence side of the national security state.

    Signals intelligence? They are listening in to your smartphone and your kiddo’s baby camera monitor. They are really nice guys.

    The sigint is the center of the surveillance state.

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    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Yes, they could collect all that. But, they couldn't possibly process it all except in the crudest manner.
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  58. Abe says: • Website
    @candid_observer
    Speaking of high energy, there's this from the WaPo, via Breitbart:

    April D. Ryan, White House correspondent and Washington bureau chief for American Urban Radio Networks, tells this blog that “this pace of covering this new president is unsustainable for the long haul.”
     
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2017/03/07/wapo-trump-may-outlast-white-house-press-corps-with-unsustainable-pace/

    I have an idea that in covering Trump many of the political reporters across the nation will soon be reduced to crying heaps of fatigue like poor little Mika. It's hard enough to keep up with the pace of a man like Trump who purportedly sleeps only 3-4 hours a night if one is just doing unemotional work -- but how does one do so while maintaining constant, emotionally exhausting, outrage?

    That's when angry snowflakes melt.

    I have an idea that in covering Trump many of the political reporters across the nation will soon be reduced to crying heaps of fatigue like poor little Mika. It’s hard enough to keep up with the pace of a man like Trump who purportedly sleeps only 3-4 hours a night if one is just doing unemotional work — but how does one do so while maintaining constant, emotionally exhausting, outrage?

    That’s when angry snowflakes melt.

    “Who the God(-emperor)s wish to destroy, they first make mad.”

    I’ve been thinking this is in fact not a bug, but THE MOST IMPORTANT FEATURE of the Trump Presidency. At first- being an easy-going, get-along-at-heart type of guy- I too couldn’t really stomach the roller-coaster ride that was his candidacy, and to my everlasting shame secretly wished he’d drop out so that Pence could get in his one good shot at Her Majesty (amazingly things looked so bleak that the man who’s now Trump’s chief-of-staff actually acted on the same impulse and tried getting him to throw in the towel).

    Since, then, though, I’ve toughened up, and most importantly stopped caring what the media says about the President. We’ve tried reasoning with liberals for decades, and with a few honorable exceptions (Greenwald, Assange) they’ve become more mendacious, more illogical, and more deluded, to the extent that many of them are the most high-functioning, yet operationally-insane people in human history. These are folks with multiple Ivy League degrees, upper middle class zip codes, and often millions of $’s of net-wealth who at the same believe Jews and Muslims are natural allies, that Third World population explosion is unrelated to climate change, and that feminism is advanced by importing 1,000′s of hairy, blue-balled Syrians.

    For the good of our civilization, we need to psychologically break these people so that we can build them up again into effective, responsible citizens, and Trump is just the mental bulldozer to do so. I honestly fantasize about starting a Trump-themed chain of psychologists’ offices to help deal with Trump Stress Disorder- not from the stand-point of coping techniques to survive the next four years, but some serious brain drillin’ of the “What’s wrong with you? Why do you believe so many absurd and harmful ideas and then attack those who are trying to make this country great again?” sort. All with the utmost and sincere love in my heart, of course ;-)

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  59. Dan Hayes says:
    @Lugash
    Woodward was a naval communications officer and a member of all the right clubs at Yale, so he was vetted.

    Lugash:

    Yes, he’s a prime member of the Deep State – WASP Division. One example, at Yale he was a member of the prestigious secretive Book and Snake Society. The US Navy service via Yale NROTC is another tip off.

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    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
    For what little it's worth, Book and Snake (along with Scroll and Key) was generally one of the cooler societies, and a more 'considered' choice than Bones, if not quite as illustrious. Illustrious, nefarious, let's call the whole thing off. Nowadays they're all so P.C. they'd make you puke.
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  60. Anonym says:
    @Mr. Anon

    The concept of a “deep state” — a shadowy network of agency or military officials who secretly conspire to influence government policy — is more often used to describe countries like Egypt, Turkey and Pakistan, where authoritarian elements band together to undercut democratically elected leaders.
     
    And where organizations like the CIA support those "authoritarian elements" that make up the "deep state". The CIA is already part of the "deep state" of Turkey, Pakistan, and likely dozens of other countries. Why is it outrageous to believe that they act much differently here?

    And where organizations like the CIA support those “authoritarian elements” that make up the “deep state”. The CIA is already part of the “deep state” of Turkey, Pakistan, and likely dozens of other countries. Why is it outrageous to believe that they act much differently here?

    An example of that is probably Charles Murray’s key insight in The Bell Curve about the situation brewing in white communities, that there were going to be marginalized IQ 130+ leaders remaining in the communities (capable of leading resistance). He had previously spent time in Laos? studying exactly the same sort of thing in rebel or potentially rebel communities.

    One can think of the members of intelligence agencies as something like political engineers, who figure out how to engineer a country’s people and government to get the outcome they want. Most normal people have no idea how to do this, but I’m sure these experienced people come back here and the unethical ones among them immediately see the opportunity to do the same thing here. And of course, people in this line of work all have the highest standards of ethics, lol, most would never even consider doing such a thing!

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Murray wrote an article on why Thailand was the domino that didn't fall.
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  61. Jefferson says:
    @Whiskey
    Obama is the first President ever to both stick around in DC, and be part of an overt effort to overthrow the Presidency of his successor from another Party. The only other partial example is TR vs. Taft, but TR did not stay in DC and Taft was his hand-picked successor.

    Nor is it clear what Obama's endgame is, whereas TR had a clear one -- re-elect himself instead of Taft in the next election. Remove Trump and Pence and what ... install Oprah via a House vote agreed upon by Paul Ryan? Bob Iger of Disney? Zuck? George Clooney? All have been mooted about as potential Presidents.

    Rather than Deep State I prefer Murray's SuperZips. Because the latter describes the terrible insularity of the same people marrying each other, being each other's cronies, living in about five zip codes, going to the same five schools, and living in the same three urban zones.

    “Obama is the first President ever to both stick around in DC,”

    Barack Hussein Obama doesn’t miss living in Chicago. I wonder why? Is Chicago overrated?

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    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    Barack Hussein Obama doesn’t miss living in Chicago. I wonder why? Is Chicago overrated?
     
    As a stepping stone for Obama, no.
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  62. @dearieme
    The CIA is above suspicion.
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-07/wikileaks-hold-press-conference-vault-7-release-8am-eastern

    It just shows how much of a liar Trump is. The CIA wiretaps hundreds of millions of people, how could Trump find himself on such a long list? Besides, it is all secret, no judge or president is ever told about it. Obviously Trump was just pulling this out of his ass! The liar.

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  63. I see we need to be doubly and trebly alert for evil Russian hackers, but should pay no attention to the elephant tap-dancing in front of the curtain.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/mar/07/wikileaks-publishes-biggest-ever-leak-of-secret-cia-documents-hacking-surveillance

    “The US intelligence agencies are facing fresh embarrassment after WikiLeaks published what it described as the biggest ever leak of confidential documents from the CIA detailing the tools it uses to break into phones, communication apps and other electronic devices.

    Thousands of documents focus mainly on techniques for hacking, including how the CIA cooperated with British intelligence to engineer a way to compromise smart televisions and turn them into improvised surveillance devices.

    The leak, dubbed “Vault 7” by WikiLeaks, will once again raise questions about the inability of US spy agencies to protect secret documents in the digital age. It follows disclosures about Afghanistan and Iraq by army intelligence specialist Chelsea Manning in 2010 and about the National Security Agency and Britain’s GCHQ by Edward Snowden in 2013.

    The documents appear to be from the CIA’s 200-strong Center for Cyber Intelligence”

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    • Replies: @neutral

    but should pay no attention to the elephant tap-dancing in front of the curtain
     
    This song seems to be appropriate in this day and age, somebody is literally watching you all the time now.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YvAYIJSSZY
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  64. a reader says:
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  65. Jefferson says:

    ” Mr. Feaver added. “President Trump’s view seems to be more on the Nixon part of the spectrum,”

    Being compared to Richard Nixon is the nicest thing someone on the political Left has ever said about Donald J. Trump. It is extremely rare that someone on the political Left compares The Donald to anyone other than Adolf Hitler.

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    • LOL: G Pinfold
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  66. Lugash says:
    @Whiskey
    Obama is the first President ever to both stick around in DC, and be part of an overt effort to overthrow the Presidency of his successor from another Party. The only other partial example is TR vs. Taft, but TR did not stay in DC and Taft was his hand-picked successor.

    Nor is it clear what Obama's endgame is, whereas TR had a clear one -- re-elect himself instead of Taft in the next election. Remove Trump and Pence and what ... install Oprah via a House vote agreed upon by Paul Ryan? Bob Iger of Disney? Zuck? George Clooney? All have been mooted about as potential Presidents.

    Rather than Deep State I prefer Murray's SuperZips. Because the latter describes the terrible insularity of the same people marrying each other, being each other's cronies, living in about five zip codes, going to the same five schools, and living in the same three urban zones.

    Nor is it clear what Obama’s endgame is, whereas TR had a clear one — re-elect himself instead of Taft in the next election. Remove Trump and Pence and what … install Oprah via a House vote agreed upon by Paul Ryan? Bob Iger of Disney? Zuck? George Clooney? All have been mooted about as potential Presidents.

    I think Obama’s been selected as the figure head for the Resistance to rally around. The Deep State finally wised up enough to figure out that Hilary’s too old, senile and corrupt to remove Trump. Since Obama’s too lazy to actually do anything, others will do the actual resistance. As you noted Jarrett has moved back into the Obama residence.

    Short term, they just want Trump out. Pence can be managed, and would probably cuck out on his own anyway. Long term they’ll try a better presidential candidate. No need for Constitutional machinations or Hollywood candidates.

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    • Replies: @anon
    yeah - Obama's way too lazy to be anything but a figurehead - Jarret is probably there to provide a backbone

    i can see Obama having a mega sulk about it though - he wanted to be off playing golf in the sun and he's effectively under house arrest by the neocon CIA

    i can imagine Michelle being pretty mad about it too

    implosions seem likely
    , @Clyde

    I think Obama’s been selected as the figure head for the Resistance to rally around. The Deep State finally wised up enough to figure out that Hilary’s too old, senile and corrupt to remove Trump. Since Obama’s too lazy to actually do anything, others will do the actual resistance.
     
    It helps to have a figurehead or leader. Funny how the egalitarian communists always had cult of personalty types lead their nations. Still do with epic haircut guy Kim Jung Un and the Castro brothers reign which just ended. I heard a commentator say this is why the Tea Party slowly faded, in addition to Lois Learner/IRS sabotaging fund raising by many Tea Party groups. Lazy Obama with still high approval ratings, is a fine choice. While Hillary is headed to the glue factory. I will bet that today she is glad she lost. Now that she is off the Presidential treadmill with all its hoopla, she realizes that she rather slow down and enjoy her golden years w Bill.
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  67. JohnnyD says:

    Bill Kristol, America’s greatest patriot, seems to believe in the existence of the Deep State:

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/15/bill-kristol-backs-deep-state-president-trump-republican-government/

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  68. Abe says: • Website
    @Charles Pewitt
    They say France has over 50 percent of its GDP related to government expenditures. The American Empire most likely is close to hitting 40 percent. The privatization schemes that have been going on mask the true extent of just how many Americans work for the government. If your company is wholly reliant on government contracts for its existence, then you should be considered a government worker.

    President Trump must begin mass firings of DEEP STATE government workers. That means the national security state and just about every damn government worker who is currently grabbing money from the American Empire. Of course, I ain't talking about most of the cops, firemen and road guys or the US military.

    President Trump should clean house at the CIA and the other human intelligence government workers. President Trump should only trust the signals intelligence side of the national security state. And trust but verify with that crowd as well. FIRE all the non-technical bastards at the NSA and other electronic surveillance outfits that are leaking all the electronic stuff.

    FIRE these overpaid DEEP STATE government worker slobs who think they run the American Empire. Those overpaid bastards have been running the American Empire into the ground for decades.

    President Trump should clean house at the CIA and the other human intelligence government workers. President Trump should only trust the signals intelligence side of the national security state. And trust but verify with that crowd as well. FIRE all the non-technical bastards at the NSA and other electronic surveillance outfits that are leaking all the electronic stuff.

    Don’t be like the cry-baby idiots at NYT, CNN, WaPO (aka Jeff Bezos’s Totally Amazing Zine of Awesomeness).

    We need to keep shoving this truth into liberals’ faces- Russians have an uncanny knack for intrigue (not to mention chess), and so why- if they hate Putin so much- are liberals and the Establishment so readily taking his bait? Trump is on the shortest leash of any modern President (and possibly any President ever). If there was any real chance of him being a Russian puppet, the neocon wing of the GOPe (pretty much the entire GOPe) would initiate impeachment proceedings in a heartbeat with Democrats in Congress trampling over each other to get on board.

    So wouldn’t the canny Russian approach be to look like they helped Trump get in the White House (1 kiloton damage), let the Establishment work itself into a frenzy over the “hacking” allegations, which then leads to paralysis of the Executive as internal elements work to undermine Trump in the quixotic hopes he can be gotten rid of with enough leaks and scathing NYT editorials/SNL parodies (100 kiloton damage)? Which then provokes Trump and his supporters into purging the security apparatus of the United States, losing several generations of expertise (1 megaton damage)?

    I’m as mad as you about these efforts to discredit the President, but let’s be adults here- the U.S. cannot afford a 1937 style ‘housecleaning” of the CIA, FBI, and NSA.

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    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    I’m as mad as you about these efforts to discredit the President, but let’s be adults here- the U.S. cannot afford a 1937 style ‘housecleaning” of the CIA, FBI, and NSA.
     
    I don't think we can afford to think like that. Let's not forget, terrorism is not an existential threat to the US, or is at least less of one than having entire categories of essential and unassailable bureaucrats.

    Like you are now, I wondered during the election why an ostensible attempt by Putin to undermine confidence in western democratic institutions was a rationale for the left to reject Trump.

    OT:

    I was just thinking how we're in John Le Carre territority now when I thought of a name for Steve's upcoming book:

    "Pinker, TaylorMade, Sailer, Spy"

    It encompasses most of iSteve's subject matter: IQ, Jews, golf, autobiography, and Turkey.
    , @anon

    I’m as mad as you about these efforts to discredit the President, but let’s be adults here- the U.S. cannot afford a 1937 style ‘housecleaning” of the CIA, FBI, and NSA.
     
    Exact opposite.

    The primary jihadist threat comes from immigration. That part of the security services obsessed with short term security-itis before immigration aren't doing their job. If they were doing their duty they'd be working to undermine the people behind open borders.
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  69. Maybe the Times, on strength of its inability to eliminate Johnny as agent of malicious change, is investigating existence of The Depp State.

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  70. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Lugash
    Woodward was a naval communications officer and a member of all the right clubs at Yale, so he was vetted.

    Bob Woodward sounds a little like Mr. Rogers when he speaks.

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  71. Abe says: • Website
    @Ozwaldo
    Who can forget such rabid right-wing movies such as Three Days of the Condor, The Parallax View, etc. One might think Hollywood invented the idea in the 1970s. The last shot of Condor shows Redford outside the old NY Times building on W 43rd street realizing how deep the deep state is.

    Who can forget such rabid right-wing movies such as Three Days of the Condor

    I was about to bring up that flick myself. Robert Redford (who’d next year star in another “America’s always been great” crowd-pleaser called ALL THE PRESIDENT’S MEN) plays a scrub CIA analyst who inadvertently stumbles on a plot to take over foreign oil fields, and so gets his entire junior varsity 2nd-string office liquidated by a professional hitman.

    I can’t believe with all the MSM armchair quarterbacking over how dumb the Bush Administration was for cashiering all of Sadaam’s colonels and so creating chaos/the Sunni insurgency, that they’d fail to recognize this was probably a reaction to the media’s own decades long campaign of vilifying and discrediting the military, police, and intelligence services. Indeed some of the most prominent neocons in the administration (Wolfowitz, Perle) would have been youngish Democrats when CONDOR came out, and therefore particularly prone to its emotional pull and so seeking to make amends in 2003 by not repeating the sins of 1953 (Mosaddegh), but instead trying to truly democratize/de-Baath-ize Iraqi society, with tragic but predictable results.

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  72. neutral says:
    @Anonymous Nephew
    I see we need to be doubly and trebly alert for evil Russian hackers, but should pay no attention to the elephant tap-dancing in front of the curtain.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/mar/07/wikileaks-publishes-biggest-ever-leak-of-secret-cia-documents-hacking-surveillance

    "The US intelligence agencies are facing fresh embarrassment after WikiLeaks published what it described as the biggest ever leak of confidential documents from the CIA detailing the tools it uses to break into phones, communication apps and other electronic devices.

    Thousands of documents focus mainly on techniques for hacking, including how the CIA cooperated with British intelligence to engineer a way to compromise smart televisions and turn them into improvised surveillance devices.

    The leak, dubbed “Vault 7” by WikiLeaks, will once again raise questions about the inability of US spy agencies to protect secret documents in the digital age. It follows disclosures about Afghanistan and Iraq by army intelligence specialist Chelsea Manning in 2010 and about the National Security Agency and Britain’s GCHQ by Edward Snowden in 2013.

    The documents appear to be from the CIA’s 200-strong Center for Cyber Intelligence"
     

    but should pay no attention to the elephant tap-dancing in front of the curtain

    This song seems to be appropriate in this day and age, somebody is literally watching you all the time now.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    Re the stuff about being able to take control of car systems remotely - anyone know what kind of engine/braking management system the late Jorg Haider's car had when it went off the road? Not saying CIA did it, but it was very convenient. People like Haider with many political enemies shouldn't be driving alone.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6rg_Haider#Death_and_aftermath

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Phaeton#First_Generation_.282002.E2.80.932006.29

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  73. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I warned people about hidden readers of Internet writing. Be also careful with cell phones and televisions that snoop and transmit. Protect yourself with better anti-malware.

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  74. As an everyday citizen and boring working schlub, my observation is that the security apparatus in our country is excessive and out of control. Is my government surveilling my phone calls and my emails? I guess the answer is “Duh do you think?” My late grandparents would have been shocked at the invasion of privacy and wondered WTH happened to their country. Washington DC feels like an armed camp. There are cameras on nearly every damned street corner. I don’t swallow the “if you’re not guilty of anything you shouldn’t care.” We need to vigorously deport illegals and stop immigration for a short while — say 50 years — to ensure that only citizens are here and that we don’t have illegals floating around in separate, ethnic communities doing who knows what. Do we really live in “a free country” (hate that phrase) if we are being filmed and watched by surveillance cameras? Why all the cameras? Seems to me like something out of the old Soviet Union and that would have brought a tear of joy to Stalin’s eye.

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    • Agree: BenKenobi
    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    The security apparatus is a natural reaction to multiculturalism and the resultant political polarization. Large numbers of people in this country have no real ties of loyalty both to the state and their fellow citizens. Had the Democrats stolen the election, I had no intention of recognizing H. Clinton as the legitimate President. And I was quite prepared to do my own part to greatly increase the ethnoreligious tensions, via the instigation of a right-wing BDS movement.

    Even an immigration moratorium of that length would not be enough. We need to deport a significant number of citizens-on-paper-only (subversives) from this country, or we need to explore a civil divorce of the states.
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  75. Svigor says:

    How long before Big Media narrative becomes “Wikileaks and Russians in collusion to undermine American security apparatus to prop up Trump”?

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    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
    Read the NYT versions, and especially the 'Readers' Picks' and 'NYT Picks' comments. They're saying exactly what you describe.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/07/world/europe/wikileaks-cia-hacking.html
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  76. NYT doesn’t accept “Deep State” because they think, “ha, we’re the ones undermining Trump!”

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  77. Svigor says:

    WikiLeaks says it has obtained trove of CIA hacking tools

    Such a breach of U.S. intelligence capabilities, and the potential fallout it might cause among U.S. allies, could pose a significant challenge to President Trump, who in the past has praised WikiLeaks and disparaged the CIA.

    It will definitely cause a significant challenge to the American security apparatus, which has to date praised itself, sided with Big Media and the left, and disparaged and undermined Trump.

    So I’m sure Trump will be in tears at this news.

    WikiLeaks indicated that it obtained the files from a current or former CIA contractor, saying that “the archive appears to have been circulated among former U.S. government hackers and contractors in an unauthorized manner, one of whom has provided WikiLeaks with portions of the archive.”

    Hmm. Hussein authorized the wide dissemination of certain intelligence among the American security apparatus, shortly before he left the White House:

    N.S.A. Gets More Latitude to Share Intercepted Communications

    WASHINGTON — In its final days, the Obama administration has expanded the power of the National Security Agency to share globally intercepted personal communications with the government’s 16 other intelligence agencies before applying privacy protections.

    The new rules significantly relax longstanding limits on what the N.S.A. may do with the information gathered by its most powerful surveillance operations, which are largely unregulated by American wiretapping laws. These include collecting satellite transmissions, phone calls and emails that cross network switches abroad, and messages between people abroad that cross domestic network switches.

    Previously, the N.S.A. filtered information before sharing intercepted communications with another agency, like the C.I.A. or the intelligence branches of the F.B.I. and the Drug Enforcement Administration. The N.S.A.’s analysts passed on only information they deemed pertinent, screening out the identities of innocent people and irrelevant personal information.

    Now, other intelligence agencies will be able to search directly through raw repositories of communications intercepted by the N.S.A. and then apply such rules for “minimizing” privacy intrusions.

    “This is not expanding the substantive ability of law enforcement to get access to signals intelligence,” said Robert S. Litt, the general counsel to Mr. Clapper. “It is simply widening the aperture for a larger number of analysts, who will be bound by the existing rules.”

    Which leads one to wonder if Hussein’s wider dissemination of data put that data into the hands of Wikileaks.

    Maybe this new treasure trove of information led Wikileaks’ “whistleblower” to the “Vault 7″ “Year Zero” data. Without the changes Hussein made, maybe the NSA would have caught the problem before Wikileaks could get ahold of it.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Which leads one to wonder if Hussein’s wider dissemination of data put that data into the hands of Wikileaks.
     
    Obama widened the dissemination of intercepted communications. What Wikileaks has obtained is a collection of hacking/interception tools.
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  78. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Lugash

    Nor is it clear what Obama’s endgame is, whereas TR had a clear one — re-elect himself instead of Taft in the next election. Remove Trump and Pence and what … install Oprah via a House vote agreed upon by Paul Ryan? Bob Iger of Disney? Zuck? George Clooney? All have been mooted about as potential Presidents.
     
    I think Obama's been selected as the figure head for the Resistance to rally around. The Deep State finally wised up enough to figure out that Hilary's too old, senile and corrupt to remove Trump. Since Obama's too lazy to actually do anything, others will do the actual resistance. As you noted Jarrett has moved back into the Obama residence.

    Short term, they just want Trump out. Pence can be managed, and would probably cuck out on his own anyway. Long term they'll try a better presidential candidate. No need for Constitutional machinations or Hollywood candidates.

    yeah – Obama’s way too lazy to be anything but a figurehead – Jarret is probably there to provide a backbone

    i can see Obama having a mega sulk about it though – he wanted to be off playing golf in the sun and he’s effectively under house arrest by the neocon CIA

    i can imagine Michelle being pretty mad about it too

    implosions seem likely

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    • Replies: @Boomstick
    Jarrett moving in with Obama is just weird, which makes me wonder why it happened. Maybe she feared being surveilled by industrial strength entities. Obama probably has Secret Service protection, both physically and electronically. That raises the bar for doing either legal or illegal surveillance.
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  79. @Discordiax
    WEll, it bascially took Erdogan most of a generation between first being elected to power and his final triumph over the Kemalist deep state.

    Yes, and he very consciously and carefully created his own anti-Kemal Deep State, one brick at a time.

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  80. ogunsiron says:
    @Captain Tripps

    It is an extraordinary contention for a sitting president to make.
     
    Crikey! Do I have to remind these MSM amateurs about history every frickin day?? Eisenhower specifically called out the "military-industrial complex" in his January 17th, 1961 Farewell Address to the nation:

    "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military–industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted."
     
    Also, this from Wikipedia:

    "In a U.S. context, the appellation given to it sometimes is extended to military–industrial–congressional complex (MICC), adding the U.S. Congress to form a three-sided relationship termed an iron triangle.[10] These relationships include political contributions, political approval for military spending, lobbying to support bureaucracies, and oversight of the industry; or more broadly to include the entire network of contracts and flows of money and resources among individuals as well as corporations and institutions of the defense contractors, private military contractors, The Pentagon, the Congress and executive branch."
     
    Is it too much to ask these "journalists" to do even a cursory level of research before writing their opinions-masked-as-news?

    If Ike's warning applies to defense, it most certainly applies to intelligence and statecraft.

    Is it too much to ask these “journalists” to do even a cursory level of research before writing their opinions-masked-as-news?
    —-
    Yes it is. Among the few journalists who have even heard of Eisenhower, how many think he must have been some kind of nazi, given the time period and the german name ? You’re asking way too much of those noxious idiots.

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    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    I thought Eisenhower was a Dutch name.
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  81. Travis says:

    I suspect it will eventually be confirmed that the FBI applied for a warrant from the foreign intelligence surveillance (FISA) court over the summer in order to monitor four members of the Trump team suspected of irregular contacts with Russian officials. The FISA court turned down the application asking FBI counter-intelligence investigators to narrow its focus. According to one report, the FBI was finally granted a warrant in October.

    The media is ignoring the FISA request because it damages the story, if the Russians were working with Trump why did the courts reject the warrant to tap the lines of Trumps team members ? Lack of evidence suggests the Russia reports are not backed by any hard evidence…If the FBI was eventually granted the warrants to tap the phones it makes the Obama administration look sinister, wire tapping the campaign of the GOP candidate…which is much worse than anything Nixon did.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    which is much worse than anything Nixon did.
     
    How many people know exactly what it was what Nixon did? I'd probably have to google to tell exactly. How many people do know how is this worse than that, in a legal or moral sense? Redpilled commenters don't count, they're a tiny minority anyway.

    Yes, it's worse, but it doesn't matter. Facts don't probably matter at all.
    , @Eagle Eye

    which is much worse than anything Nixon did.
     
    Nixon had to go because he ended a lucrative and interesting war in Vietnam.
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  82. anon • Disclaimer says:

    http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2017/0307/Poachers-shoot-and-kill-a-rhino-at-the-zoo

    What are the odds that it isn’t immigrant behind this.

    It takes quite a while during a siege for people to start bbq’ing the Zoo animals.

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  83. anon • Disclaimer says:

    I sort of like it. The ‘Military Industrial Complex’ is so dated and also has a connotation of organization and structure which I think is unrealistic.

    But the notion that there are powerful institutions that profit from international conflict — that is more of an axiom.

    Your old fashioned Trusts, followed by steel pricing like cartels — those things have been pretty easy to break up. Judge Gary isn’t going to risk prison to set a commodity price. Plus financial markets now have the liquidity an depth to allow some of the risk to be hedged. Go Unconventional Oil!

    You have institutions (military services, universities, think tanks), businesses, bureaucracies, and political interests. They compete. But when they align, they pull their weight.

    Maybe no one is talking about this when they mention deep state. They don’t need a star chamber or secret handshakes. Without conflict, there is a lot less to do.

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  84. OT: A black man is arrested for making eight different bomb threats to Jewish organizations, and USDOJ charges him with one count…of harassing his ex-girlfriend.

    https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/cyberstalking-charge-brought-manhattan-federal-court-against-missouri-man-pattern

    I was hoping Jeff Sessions would be using a different playbook than the one Eric Holder used.

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    • Agree: Kyle McKenna
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  85. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @NOTA
    This can work, but only if Trump is okay with shrinking the range of stuff the US empire does. I'm sure there's bloat in the state department, but there's also a necessary size to the state department, pentagon, etc., when you plan to have a finger in every pot on the globe. If we mean to still be involved and intervening in every country on Earth, we will need that army of bureaucrats.

    In that case, Trump arrives at an old problem: the Czar can exile any one annoying bureaucrat to Siberia, but he's still dependent on the bureaucracy, so he can't exile them *all*.

    The problem is that a normal business dumps ‘non strategic’ subsidiaries when they are under financial pressure.

    To these guys, nothing is ‘non strategic’. And the US is rich nation.

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  86. Abe says: • Website
    @Burton
    I've been thinking a lot about the Nixon/Trump parallels recently. These paragraphs from Christopher Caldwell's (paywalled) 2014 review of Perlstein's The Invisible Bridge are apt:

    [The Watergate investigation] was the response of a political establishment to an antiestablishment political movement. Nixon bound the Sunbelt, the South, disaffected urban Democrats, and supporters of the Vietnam War together with Republican businessmen and boosters, and he managed, in 1972, to win by what is still the largest popular margin (almost eighteen million votes) in US presidential history. The Watergate investigations, whatever their legal justification, had the political effect of damming a democratic tide.

    . . . If impeachment was warranted because Nixon was corrupt, it was actually carried out because he was weak and trusting and his party upstanding. Six GOP senators said in 1973 that they would not run for reelection unless Nixon spoke about the Watergate break-ins. Nixon’s successors have not made that mistake again, whether in last decade’s Iraq War inquiries or this decade’s allegations of IRS malfeasance. Therefore, no “system” worked in Watergate. It was a form of oversight that could be used only once, and on an administration caught by surprise.

    It is not far from this vantage to seeing Watergate as a kind of conspiracy or coup. Early on in the scandal, Democratic adviser Clark Clifford suggested a resolution of Watergate that involved Vice President Spiro Agnew’s resignation and the appointment of a successor acceptable to Congress, to be followed by Nixon’s resignation—almost exactly what happened over the following year and a half. North Carolina Republican senator Jesse Helms complained that the misdeeds of Nixon’s predecessors John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson made “Watergate look like a Sunday school picnic.” Nixon aide Patrick J. Buchanan testified that a lot of the administration’s “dirty tricks” were inspired by the Kennedy fixer and Watergate-era chairman of the Democratic Party, Larry O’Brien.

    This view, Perlstein shows, triumphed. In December 1975, the editorial page of the New York Times avowed: “By the time Richard Nixon became President, the practiced seaminess had become so entrenched that the deception of Watergate flowed with alarming naturalness.” By then, Senator Frank Church of Idaho, slated to investigate US intelligence abuses, had shown a “willful resistance,” as Perlstein puts it,

    in following his own evidence where it frequently led. He had imagined, when he took on this inquiry as his own, that it would help put the final nails in the coffin for the legacy of Richard M. Nixon. He hardly knew how to respond when so many of the most frightening discoveries pointed instead to the administration of John F. Kennedy—at whose 1960 convention he had delivered a striking keynote speech.

     

    A separate House inquiry, by Long Island Democratic representative Otis Pike, was suppressed by Congress itself . . ."
     
    http://www.bookforum.com/inprint/021_03/13631

    I’ve been thinking a lot about the Nixon/Trump parallels recently.

    For all the interesting parallels, the big difference is Trump’s King Kong-size cajones. I recently read a book on the history of US nuclear policy (yeah, I’m old) and was struck by an anecdote of how pathetic and self-pitying Nixon was as the end was coming with the denouement of Watergate. “They’re trying to kill the President!” he’d wail to staffers. Even as he was feverishly working on the final details of the SALT treaty.

    Can’t imagine Trump being such a basket-case, especially just because the newspapers were saying mean things about him. Nixon was supposedly the highest-IQ modern President, yet confidence, will, and fighting spirit should not be underestimated either.

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  87. @Lugash
    Woodward was a naval communications officer and a member of all the right clubs at Yale, so he was vetted.

    That much makes sense to me. But, Bernstein was a red diaper baby.

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    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @fnn

    But, Bernstein was a red diaper baby.
     
    OSS, predecessor agency of CIA, was riddled with Communists, as a Google search will tell you. You will get WaPo as one of the hits, not just the John Birch Society.

    Also:
    https://infogalactic.com/info/Operation_Mockingbird#Directorate_for_Plans

    J. Edgar Hoover became jealous of the CIA's growing power. Institutionally, the organizations were very different, with the CIA holding a more politically diverse group in contrast to the more conservative FBI. This was reflected in Hoover's description of the OPC as "Wisner's gang of weirdos". Hoover began having investigations done into Wisner's people. He found that some of them had been active in left-wing politics in the 1930s. This information was passed to Senator Joseph McCarthy who started making attacks on members of the OPC. Hoover also gave McCarthy details of an affair that Frank Wisner had with Princess Caradja in Romania during the war. Hoover claimed that Caradja was a Soviet agent.[12]

    McCarthy, as part of his campaign against government, began accusing other senior members of the CIA as being security risks. McCarthy claimed that the CIA was a "sinkhole of communists", and said he would root out a hundred of them. One of his first targets was Cord Meyer, who was still working for Operation Mockingbird. In August 1953, Richard Helms, Wisner's deputy at the OPC, told Meyer that McCarthy had accused him of being a communist. The Federal Bureau of Investigation said it was unwilling to give Meyer "security clearance", without referring to any evidence against him. Allen W. Dulles and Frank Wisner both came to his defense and refused to permit an FBI interrogation of Meyer.[13]

    With the network in authority in the CIA threatened, Wisner was directed to unleash Mockingbird on McCarthy. Drew Pearson, Joe Alsop, Jack Anderson, Walter Lippmann and Ed Murrow all engaged in intensely negative coverage of McCarthy. According to Jack Anderson, his political reputation was permanently damaged by the press coverage orchestrated by Wisner.[14]
     
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  88. whorefinder says: • Website

    The irony of this story being printed the day before Vault 7 from Wikileaks is too delicious.

    And that’s before we get to the proof that Obama wire tapped Trump.

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  89. @Anonymous
    Of course, the 'deep' in 'Deep Throat' doesn't refer to a mole buried somewhere in the bowels of the FBI, and neither does 'Throat' refer to the said mole's vocalization of dirty little secrets, no. Rather it refers to that strange era in post-Vietnam malaised America, the 'porno-chic' phase in which that mob-financed dirty little movie 'Deep Throat' was hailed by those who should have known better as the 'cultural' highlight of 1972. Messrs Bernstein and Woodward met Mark Felt directly after a 'viewing' of Deep Throat, and named their cloak-and-dagger fedored raincoated informer 'Deep Throat' partially in honor and partially in sleaze.

    Perhaps the most significant phenomenon is today's multi billion dollar depraved porno industry, from that porno chic source.

    Whatever you call it, Mark Felt’s actions were not driven by ideology but by the fact he was passed over for FBI head by Nixon.

    So Nixon had to pay. Fortunately for Felt, he had a way of hitting back at Nixon. Nixon’s pre-election antics were enough to require him to step down.

    The opposition to Trump, what form is it taking? Well, if it’s like the case of Mark Felt, we won’t know for decades.

    It could be ideological or personal, but most important: does Trump have a weak point as Nixon did?

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    • Replies: @Chief Seattle
    Trump's weak point is his children. If one of them turns out to be weak or corrupt, Trump may look the other way long enough to be complicit. Or be open to blackmail where he never would as an individual.
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  90. @reiner Tor

    President Trump should only trust the signals intelligence side of the national security state.
     
    Signals intelligence? They are listening in to your smartphone and your kiddo's baby camera monitor. They are really nice guys.

    The sigint is the center of the surveillance state.

    Yes, they could collect all that. But, they couldn’t possibly process it all except in the crudest manner.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Well, Google can give you useful results, and why would they use a worse search engine? So I'm pretty sure it's well organized information. If a CIA guy is reading this, with a few clicks he can probably find out who this commenter PV van der Byl is, along with all information about his family etc. How much better organized it needs to be?
    , @Mr. Anon

    Yes, they could collect all that. But, they couldn’t possibly process it all except in the crudest manner.
     
    They don't have to process it for everybody. For most people they just keep it on ice against the possibility that that anyone becomes a someone. But, to surveil, in detail, a few thousand of the most important and influential people in the country? That is certainly within thier ability
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  91. Jefferson says:

    Snoop Dogg is teaming up with The Koch on promoting drug legalization and criminal justice reform.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2017/03/06/koch-institute-teaming-snoop-dogg-sxsw-tackle-criminal-justice-reform/

    Nobody in the African American community is calling Snoop Dogg an Uncle Tom sellout Black on the outside White on the inside for working with The Koch Brothers because the Left no longer sees The Koch Brothers as Bad Whites who belong to the political Right.

    The Koch Brothers have won over the hearts of a lot of People Of Color and White Liberals for being Never Trumpers.

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    • Replies: @SFG
    Hey, at least we'll get an album out of this, and maybe the Koch brothers will gain a little weight.
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  92. @Travis
    I suspect it will eventually be confirmed that the FBI applied for a warrant from the foreign intelligence surveillance (FISA) court over the summer in order to monitor four members of the Trump team suspected of irregular contacts with Russian officials. The FISA court turned down the application asking FBI counter-intelligence investigators to narrow its focus. According to one report, the FBI was finally granted a warrant in October.

    The media is ignoring the FISA request because it damages the story, if the Russians were working with Trump why did the courts reject the warrant to tap the lines of Trumps team members ? Lack of evidence suggests the Russia reports are not backed by any hard evidence...If the FBI was eventually granted the warrants to tap the phones it makes the Obama administration look sinister, wire tapping the campaign of the GOP candidate...which is much worse than anything Nixon did.

    which is much worse than anything Nixon did.

    How many people know exactly what it was what Nixon did? I’d probably have to google to tell exactly. How many people do know how is this worse than that, in a legal or moral sense? Redpilled commenters don’t count, they’re a tiny minority anyway.

    Yes, it’s worse, but it doesn’t matter. Facts don’t probably matter at all.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "How many people know exactly what it was what Nixon did?"

    Watergate does not bother me, does your conscious bother you?
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  93. @neutral

    but should pay no attention to the elephant tap-dancing in front of the curtain
     
    This song seems to be appropriate in this day and age, somebody is literally watching you all the time now.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YvAYIJSSZY

    Re the stuff about being able to take control of car systems remotely – anyone know what kind of engine/braking management system the late Jorg Haider’s car had when it went off the road? Not saying CIA did it, but it was very convenient. People like Haider with many political enemies shouldn’t be driving alone.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6rg_Haider#Death_and_aftermath

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Phaeton#First_Generation_.282002.E2.80.932006.29

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  94. @Anonym
    And where organizations like the CIA support those “authoritarian elements” that make up the “deep state”. The CIA is already part of the “deep state” of Turkey, Pakistan, and likely dozens of other countries. Why is it outrageous to believe that they act much differently here?

    An example of that is probably Charles Murray's key insight in The Bell Curve about the situation brewing in white communities, that there were going to be marginalized IQ 130+ leaders remaining in the communities (capable of leading resistance). He had previously spent time in Laos? studying exactly the same sort of thing in rebel or potentially rebel communities.

    One can think of the members of intelligence agencies as something like political engineers, who figure out how to engineer a country's people and government to get the outcome they want. Most normal people have no idea how to do this, but I'm sure these experienced people come back here and the unethical ones among them immediately see the opportunity to do the same thing here. And of course, people in this line of work all have the highest standards of ethics, lol, most would never even consider doing such a thing!

    Murray wrote an article on why Thailand was the domino that didn’t fall.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    Thailand and Japan were the only countries in Asia not subject to foreign occupation for an extended time before WWII, which seems to have immunized them against the allure of communism. Thailand was between French Indochina and British India and Burma and played them off each other to maintain its independence.
    , @Anonym
    Would be interesting to read, but the juicy bits are behind a pay wall.
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  95. Yak-15 says:
    @ic1000
    Charles Murray never coined the phrase SuperZips, nor did he write "Coming Apart." Or "Human Accomplishment." However, he did co-author "The Bell Curve," which has been completely discredited.

    If you had gone to Middlebury College, you would know that.

    “Superzips” triggers my racism radar.

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  96. @ogunsiron
    Is it too much to ask these “journalists” to do even a cursory level of research before writing their opinions-masked-as-news?
    ----
    Yes it is. Among the few journalists who have even heard of Eisenhower, how many think he must have been some kind of nazi, given the time period and the german name ? You're asking way too much of those noxious idiots.

    I thought Eisenhower was a Dutch name.

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    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Swiss German.
    , @G Pinfold
    Dutch = Deutsche. The Dutch were the Germans who migrated towards the Atlantic.
    The guilt-ridden Hollanders today know it. Why do you think they are such cucks?
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  97. Lot says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Murray wrote an article on why Thailand was the domino that didn't fall.

    Thailand and Japan were the only countries in Asia not subject to foreign occupation for an extended time before WWII, which seems to have immunized them against the allure of communism. Thailand was between French Indochina and British India and Burma and played them off each other to maintain its independence.

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  98. @PV van der Byl
    Yes, they could collect all that. But, they couldn't possibly process it all except in the crudest manner.

    Well, Google can give you useful results, and why would they use a worse search engine? So I’m pretty sure it’s well organized information. If a CIA guy is reading this, with a few clicks he can probably find out who this commenter PV van der Byl is, along with all information about his family etc. How much better organized it needs to be?

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    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    But that would require the interest of, at the very least, one guy at CIA. They have what, 30,000-40,000 people? And most of those would not have access to the systems and data bases you are thinking of.

    Given the demands on their time, what percentage of the U.S. population could they really monitor?
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  99. Lot says:

    My suggestion here several months ago that Trump do a kabuki fake attempt to repeal Obamacare but not actually do it seems to have been taken up now by Trump in cooperation with Paul Ryan and possibly other elements of the GOPe:

    http://theweek.com/articles/684473/did-paul-ryan-intentionally-sabotage-health-care-plan

    Hard money is the other bad idea from the right that could kill Trump’s reelection.

    Finding some soft money people to put on the Fed who also are not left wingers who will strategically vote for hard money just to kill the economy in 2019-2020 will not be an easy task for Trump. But there should at least be a handful of economists affiliated with the more conservative private sector unions who are for soft money but not anti-Trump SJWs. The other option would be Wall Streeters with personal loyalty to Trump but without any history of being gold buggers.

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    • Replies: @eD
    "My suggestion here several months ago that Trump do a kabuki fake attempt to repeal Obamacare but not actually do it seems to have been taken up now by Trump in cooperation with Paul Ryan and possibly other elements of the GOPe:"

    Off topic, but that was my take on this too.

    The Republican problem was that that Obamacare WAS the Republican health care plan. The entire problem of the base was that it was associated with Obama.

    So they will get something through the House that is guaranteed to die in the Senate and say that they tried. A better option would be to make some cosmetic changes and call it "Trumpcare" but there were too many ideologues in the House for that to work.
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  100. @Autochthon
    You know, Ive never understood, for hr life of me, ehybwe have all these redundant, civilian outfits in the first place. Shouldn't all the crap the NSA does be handled by cryptographers and similar rates (MOS) from the navy, army, and air force? We have a huge military outfit doing that kind of thibg already, why wasn't it grown and the stuff NSA does addd to its responsibilities?

    Likewise, the CIA should be remilitarised, back to its origins as the OSS: it should be a bunch of SEALs, pararescuemen, rangers, etc., no?

    Military personnel in the U.S.A. have historically and by international standards been astoundingly apolitical. The filters of having to undergo basic training and then the grueling stuff required to become a special operator themselves help weed out weirdos, dingbats, the antisocial, disloyal, etc. Being in the military makes accountability much easier, swifter, and harsher. No unions, no contracts, no bonuses and kickbacks through layers of contractors: your ass just belongs to Uncle Sam. You screw up, you get a court martial and a vacation in Leavenworth. Probably cheaper, too, then what civilians with inflated degrees from Harvard and Stanford demand.

    I'm probably missing something. I'm genuinely pretty ignorant about spook stuff. The FBI I get because their primary purpose is domestic law enforcement – you don't want the armed forces doing that. But I want to understand why all this other crap related to national defense isn't squarely within the bailiwick of the military.

    I'm genuinely seeking enlightenment with this post: what don't I understand?

    In fact, uniformed servicemen operate most of the collection apparatus on behalf of the NSA. Collection platforms include all sorts of aircraft, some the size of wide-body airliners, ships, subs, and land stations running from Yorkshire to the Australian Outback.

    The civilians at the NSA fill advanced technical and analytical positions. It is very tough to get first rate mathematicians and computer scientists to stay in the military for long, especially as enlisted men. A lot of career NSAers today are the sort who would have joined Bell Labs or some other part of Ma Bell, back in the day.

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  101. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Svigor
    WikiLeaks says it has obtained trove of CIA hacking tools

    Such a breach of U.S. intelligence capabilities, and the potential fallout it might cause among U.S. allies, could pose a significant challenge to President Trump, who in the past has praised WikiLeaks and disparaged the CIA.
     
    It will definitely cause a significant challenge to the American security apparatus, which has to date praised itself, sided with Big Media and the left, and disparaged and undermined Trump.

    So I'm sure Trump will be in tears at this news.

    WikiLeaks indicated that it obtained the files from a current or former CIA contractor, saying that “the archive appears to have been circulated among former U.S. government hackers and contractors in an unauthorized manner, one of whom has provided WikiLeaks with portions of the archive.”
     
    Hmm. Hussein authorized the wide dissemination of certain intelligence among the American security apparatus, shortly before he left the White House:

    N.S.A. Gets More Latitude to Share Intercepted Communications

    WASHINGTON — In its final days, the Obama administration has expanded the power of the National Security Agency to share globally intercepted personal communications with the government’s 16 other intelligence agencies before applying privacy protections.

    The new rules significantly relax longstanding limits on what the N.S.A. may do with the information gathered by its most powerful surveillance operations, which are largely unregulated by American wiretapping laws. These include collecting satellite transmissions, phone calls and emails that cross network switches abroad, and messages between people abroad that cross domestic network switches.
     

    Previously, the N.S.A. filtered information before sharing intercepted communications with another agency, like the C.I.A. or the intelligence branches of the F.B.I. and the Drug Enforcement Administration. The N.S.A.’s analysts passed on only information they deemed pertinent, screening out the identities of innocent people and irrelevant personal information.

    Now, other intelligence agencies will be able to search directly through raw repositories of communications intercepted by the N.S.A. and then apply such rules for “minimizing” privacy intrusions.
     

    “This is not expanding the substantive ability of law enforcement to get access to signals intelligence,” said Robert S. Litt, the general counsel to Mr. Clapper. “It is simply widening the aperture for a larger number of analysts, who will be bound by the existing rules.”
     
    Which leads one to wonder if Hussein's wider dissemination of data put that data into the hands of Wikileaks.

    Maybe this new treasure trove of information led Wikileaks' "whistleblower" to the "Vault 7" "Year Zero" data. Without the changes Hussein made, maybe the NSA would have caught the problem before Wikileaks could get ahold of it.

    Which leads one to wonder if Hussein’s wider dissemination of data put that data into the hands of Wikileaks.

    Obama widened the dissemination of intercepted communications. What Wikileaks has obtained is a collection of hacking/interception tools.

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  102. Bill B. says:

    OT

    https://policyexchange.org.uk/publication/racial-self-interest-is-not-racism/

    73% of white Clinton voters say a White American who wants to reduce immigration to maintain her group’s share of the population is being racist, but just 18% say a Latino or Asian American who wants to increase immigration from Latin America or Asia to boost her group’s share of the population is being racist

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    • Replies: @anon
    Trump has a pool of 18-27% of white Clinton voters to still get - cool.
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  103. @reiner Tor
    Well, Google can give you useful results, and why would they use a worse search engine? So I'm pretty sure it's well organized information. If a CIA guy is reading this, with a few clicks he can probably find out who this commenter PV van der Byl is, along with all information about his family etc. How much better organized it needs to be?

    But that would require the interest of, at the very least, one guy at CIA. They have what, 30,000-40,000 people? And most of those would not have access to the systems and data bases you are thinking of.

    Given the demands on their time, what percentage of the U.S. population could they really monitor?

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    • Replies: @neutral

    what percentage of the U.S. population could they really monitor?
     
    As Snowden revealed everything about everyone is being stored in that huge building in Utah. By everything I mean EVERYTHING, every email, every url you went to, every online transaction, every online chat, every comment your wrote has been recorded and permanently stored. This means they can monitor everyone, that does not mean they are focusing on every individual there is at the same time, but if someone needs to be singled out then they can do it.

    Also, as technology improves I can see no technical hurdles where systems are created where every person on the planet is spied on in real time 24/7, the system would behave like a real human spying on you, but only more efficient. The only hurdle is the political one, saying "it cannot be done practically" is absolutely not the correct argument to make, it can be done and if nobody stops it, it will be done.

    , @whorefinder
    Dude, have you not heard of the Utah Data Center:

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Utah_Data_Center

    So the idea that they can't store information on every single American simultaneously is wrong.

    What's more, as Wikileaks and Snowden keep revealing, the feds are about 5-10 years ahead of where everyone thinks they are in terms of surveillance. You think they already haven't figured out ways to process these huge volumes of information that we don't know about yet?

    I seriously don't want to sound like some caricature of Alex Jones, but wake up sheeple!
    , @Lugash

    Given the demands on their time, what percentage of the U.S. population could they really monitor?
     
    The entire US, scratch that, world, population is monitored at this point. All your web browsing, emails, social media, phone calls and location data are swept up automatically and stored forever. There's probably simple heuristics that get applied to everyone at this point... are you speaking Arabic, have you traveled to the Middle East, do you search for suspicious things etc. If someday PV van der Byl comes to the attention of the Deep State, say as a Dutch lawmaker who's opposing something the US wants, the databases get searched for compromising materials.

    The critical point isn't the surveillance and interception, that's been done for years. It's that now it's done at world wide scale, stored forever and easily searchable.

    I have no doubt that every visitor to this blog has their data sitting in a "Countering violent domestic extremism" database courtesy of Obama and Holder as well.
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  104. @Frau Katze
    I thought Eisenhower was a Dutch name.

    Swiss German.

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    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    Thanks for the update.
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  105. Travis says:
    @Autochthon
    You know, Ive never understood, for hr life of me, ehybwe have all these redundant, civilian outfits in the first place. Shouldn't all the crap the NSA does be handled by cryptographers and similar rates (MOS) from the navy, army, and air force? We have a huge military outfit doing that kind of thibg already, why wasn't it grown and the stuff NSA does addd to its responsibilities?

    Likewise, the CIA should be remilitarised, back to its origins as the OSS: it should be a bunch of SEALs, pararescuemen, rangers, etc., no?

    Military personnel in the U.S.A. have historically and by international standards been astoundingly apolitical. The filters of having to undergo basic training and then the grueling stuff required to become a special operator themselves help weed out weirdos, dingbats, the antisocial, disloyal, etc. Being in the military makes accountability much easier, swifter, and harsher. No unions, no contracts, no bonuses and kickbacks through layers of contractors: your ass just belongs to Uncle Sam. You screw up, you get a court martial and a vacation in Leavenworth. Probably cheaper, too, then what civilians with inflated degrees from Harvard and Stanford demand.

    I'm probably missing something. I'm genuinely pretty ignorant about spook stuff. The FBI I get because their primary purpose is domestic law enforcement – you don't want the armed forces doing that. But I want to understand why all this other crap related to national defense isn't squarely within the bailiwick of the military.

    I'm genuinely seeking enlightenment with this post: what don't I understand?

    in addition why do we have a department of Homeland Security ? The Department of Defense should cover everything the department of Homeland Security does. it is redundant to have 2 departments with the sole aim of defending the United States.

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    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    The high-falutin' mathematicians and such mentioned earlier could be officers' billets with great pay, just look at the medical, engineering, and similar staff corps.

    The whole Leviathan reeks of bloated make-work and corruption.
    , @eD
    "in addition why do we have a department of Homeland Security ?"

    First, people keep getting confused about how these departments were organized. Homeland Security didn't spring out of the ground in 2002. Its a collection of agencies that existed beforehand in other departments, none of which had anything to do with the military.

    Second, its standard in other countries to have a department essentially in charge of the police, usually called the Home Department or the Interior Department, and a second department in charge of the military. The natural name for DHS, the Department of the Interior, was already taken by an unrelated cabinet department.

    That said, there is a serious constitutional issue with DHS in that policing is supposed to be a state, not a federal, matter. But as with other departments of which this can be said, that bridge had been crossed a long time ago when the component parts of DHS were created. And a good deal of DHS, such as the Coast Guard, Customs, and immigration control, would exist even if strict separation of federal and state powers were maintained. The surveillance stuff is associated with lots of independent agencies, not DHS.
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  106. Lot says:
    @neutral
    "There are milder forms of it in healthier democracies"

    So they claim there is only a mild form of a deep state. This is actually progress, they now admit this exists, now their narrative will be how "mildness" is acceptable, which is not an easy thing to defend considering the USA has the biggest internal security apparatus in the world and probably in all of history.

    We have at least 16 different intelligence agencies in the federal government:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community#Organization

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  107. @Anonymous
    Of course, the 'deep' in 'Deep Throat' doesn't refer to a mole buried somewhere in the bowels of the FBI, and neither does 'Throat' refer to the said mole's vocalization of dirty little secrets, no. Rather it refers to that strange era in post-Vietnam malaised America, the 'porno-chic' phase in which that mob-financed dirty little movie 'Deep Throat' was hailed by those who should have known better as the 'cultural' highlight of 1972. Messrs Bernstein and Woodward met Mark Felt directly after a 'viewing' of Deep Throat, and named their cloak-and-dagger fedored raincoated informer 'Deep Throat' partially in honor and partially in sleaze.

    Perhaps the most significant phenomenon is today's multi billion dollar depraved porno industry, from that porno chic source.

    Mark Felt wasn’t happy about being named after a fictional vagina.

    Deep Throat was big in ’72 … Basic Instinct was a cultural phenomenon in 1992.

    There was a brief period in the early-to-mid-’90s when “erotic thrillers” were all the rage in Hollywood. The genre gained prominence in the ’80s with Body Heat, Blue Velvet, 9 1/2 Weeks, and Fatal Attraction, but reached its tacky apex around the time that Clinton took office.

    This cinematic flowering led to such unforgettable flicks as:

    * Sliver, in which Sharon Stone keeps her legs closed and Billy Baldwin bares his rump not once but several times;
    * Body of Evidence, starring Madonna as a whore on trial for S&Ming a man to death and Willem Dafoe as her well-endowed lawyer; and
    * Boxing Helena, directed by Jessica Lynch, in which Mama’s-boy Julian Sands wins nasty-bitch Sherilyn Fenn’s love by kidnapping her and chopping off her legs and arms; she rewards him by coaching him in the art of lovemaking

    All three of these movies were among the most-hyped releases of 1993; all three of them flopped.

    (I like Enigma, and I like bad movies, so I have something of an appreciation for Sliver and Boxing Helena.)

    The genre breathed its last in the fall of 1995, when two Joe Eszterhas*-scripted films (Showgirls and Jade**) died at the box office within weeks of each other.

    This was around the time that O.J. Simpson was acquitted. That whole spectacle was yet another example of the weirdness permeating the pop-culture scene in the ’90s. The trial’s shameful ending signified that black men had come a long way, baby – after centuries of struggle, they could finally get away with murdering white women (and Jewish men) in cold blood.

    *Eszterhas wrote Basic Instinct and Sliver, as well. The latter was adapted from an Ira Levin novel.

    **Jade was one of the flops that David Caruso made after leaving NYPD Blue. Caruso’s example – high-flying TV star quits hit show after one year, only to watch movie career crash and burn – inspired George Clooney to stay on ER a lot longer than he might have. Eszterhas claims that William Friedkin, the director, totally rewrote his script.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Oh, I dunno: Wild Things was released in 1998 and did okay (albeit mostly on box-office receipts from horny male teenagers...). I agree the genre is bilious, with one exception (from far before its peak):

    Body of Evidence (1993) was indeed rancid, but Lawrence Kasdan's superb Body Heat (1981) is so sophisticated I remember its plot was used to illustrate some concepts in the casebook for my class on Wills, Trusts, & Estates many years later.
    , @whorefinder

    There was a brief period in the early-to-mid-’90s when “erotic thrillers” were all the rage in Hollywood. The genre gained prominence in the ’80s with Body Heat, Blue Velvet, 9 1/2 Weeks, and Fatal Attraction, but reached its tacky apex around the time that Clinton took office.
     
    Yeah, the Clinton sex dramas really made Hollywood pull back on the erotic thrillers, and turn back to making movies like The American President a defense of Bill if Bill were from an alternate dimension. That, and the "thriller" film was getting to be tired by the end of the 1990s.

    Of course, the "thriller" films were a 1990s cover story, a convenient tag when you didn't want to call your movie what it was---usually an action or horror film. For example, Silence of the Lambs was the original blockbuster "thriller" when it was really a horror film mixed with a crime caper, or, perhaps, a movie about a woman struggling with her career and her attraction to dark psychotic men, similar to how Arrival was really a movie for women about breaking up.

    Many adult-oriented action movies in the 1990s were called "thrillers", probably to try to make sure both sexes came to the theater. For example, Point of No Return and The Pelican Brief and The Fugitive were call marketed as thrillers. The Pierce Brosnan-James Bond films of the period were shot in thriller format.

    inspired George Clooney to stay on ER a lot longer than he might have.

     

    Probably a good idea, as George's early movie role choices of The Peacemaker and Batman & Robin showed he needed a better script reader and better instincts about directors.
    , @guest
    My favorite was Kill Me Again, with Mr. and Mrs. Val Kilmer. There's a hilariously stupid part in which they're staging a murder scene in a seedy motel, and they get all hot and bothered while he's pouring blood all over the room. What is it with Hollywood mixing blood and sex? Yuck.

    The Basic Instinct subgenre in particular is dead, but there's still mainstream erotica around. 50 Shades of Grey, for instance, which is probably more explicit than any you mention. It gives women the tinglies, but doesn't do much for menfolk. No mystery, no real violence, no gore. Just a marginally attractive girl to see. (That came from Melanie Griffith and Don Johnson?)

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  108. Svigor says:

    Obama widened the dissemination of intercepted communications. What Wikileaks has obtained is a collection of hacking/interception tools.

    Maybe this new treasure trove of information led Wikileaks’ “whistleblower” to the “Vault 7″ “Year Zero” data.

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  109. Svigor says:

    yeah – Obama’s way too lazy to be anything but a figurehead – Jarret is probably there to provide a backbone

    Jarret’s there to manage the writing of Hussein & Michelle’s 60m books.

    implosions seem likely

    Some time after the 60m payoff, I’m guessing.

    I suspect it will eventually be confirmed that the FBI applied for a warrant from the foreign intelligence surveillance (FISA) court over the summer in order to monitor four members of the Trump team suspected of irregular contacts with Russian officials. The FISA court turned down the application asking FBI counter-intelligence investigators to narrow its focus. According to one report, the FBI was finally granted a warrant in October.

    The court probably turned it down because no relevant cause was given. “Irregular contacts with Russian officials” is far below FISA pay grade.

    The media is ignoring the FISA request because it damages the story, if the Russians were working with Trump why did the courts reject the warrant to tap the lines of Trumps team members ?

    Because working with the Russians is meaningless to FISA courts?

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    • Agree: Autochthon
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  110. neutral says:
    @PV van der Byl
    But that would require the interest of, at the very least, one guy at CIA. They have what, 30,000-40,000 people? And most of those would not have access to the systems and data bases you are thinking of.

    Given the demands on their time, what percentage of the U.S. population could they really monitor?

    what percentage of the U.S. population could they really monitor?

    As Snowden revealed everything about everyone is being stored in that huge building in Utah. By everything I mean EVERYTHING, every email, every url you went to, every online transaction, every online chat, every comment your wrote has been recorded and permanently stored. This means they can monitor everyone, that does not mean they are focusing on every individual there is at the same time, but if someone needs to be singled out then they can do it.

    Also, as technology improves I can see no technical hurdles where systems are created where every person on the planet is spied on in real time 24/7, the system would behave like a real human spying on you, but only more efficient. The only hurdle is the political one, saying “it cannot be done practically” is absolutely not the correct argument to make, it can be done and if nobody stops it, it will be done.

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    • Agree: Kyle McKenna
    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Like a lot of large corpirations, governmet has massive capacity to store data.

    The question is how many people can they single out. There are an awful lot of bottlenecks in the system.
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  111. Kind of surreal to think we are being governed by this cabal of unelected creeps.

    I wonder if Trump knew what he was up against, when he began this quest? He deserves to be on Mount Rushmore if he somehow manages to finish his term.

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  112. Peter Dale Scott was using the term “deep politics” to refer to the hidden, violent and extra-legal forces behind the Kennedy assassination thirty years ago–an event as American as mom and apple pie.

    The Atlantic just ran a similar piece nitpicking the origins of “deep state” as Turkish and thus inapplicable to the US.

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  113. @Travis
    in addition why do we have a department of Homeland Security ? The Department of Defense should cover everything the department of Homeland Security does. it is redundant to have 2 departments with the sole aim of defending the United States.

    The high-falutin’ mathematicians and such mentioned earlier could be officers’ billets with great pay, just look at the medical, engineering, and similar staff corps.

    The whole Leviathan reeks of bloated make-work and corruption.

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    • Replies: @Travis
    need to drain the swamp, the Department of Homeland security now employs 240,000 people, 108 congressional committees and subcommittees oversee the department’s operations.while the Department of Defense employs 2.8 million , of which 750,000 are civilians...
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  114. Anonym says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Murray wrote an article on why Thailand was the domino that didn't fall.

    Would be interesting to read, but the juicy bits are behind a pay wall.

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  115. Jefferson says:
    @Larsen Halleck
    Left unsaid:

    Why is nobody addressing how THE NEW YORK TIMES is defending the honor of the CIA?

    Didn't liberals used to hate the CIA?

    “Left unsaid:

    Why is nobody addressing how THE NEW YORK TIMES is defending the honor of the CIA?

    Didn’t liberals used to hate the CIA?”

    Barack Hussein Obama made it cool for the Left to embrace the CIA.

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  116. @PV van der Byl
    Swiss German.

    Thanks for the update.

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  117. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    The Prog Problem or Proglem.

    Progs saw society and noticed social inequalities. Some inequalities resulted from laws and cultures. Laws might favor one group over others. Or culture might restrain some groups from opening up to new opportunities. It’s like some ultra-orthodox Jews stuck with old way and say NO to new way.

    So, there were lots of divisions and inequalities among many groups.

    Progs figure more freedom, more equality under the law, and more opportunity would result in equal success for all groups. Convergence of rights, freedoms, and opportunities would lead to the convergence of results. This could have been the case IF all groups were equal in everything except social treatment and cultural attitudes.
    But as things turn out, there are genetic differences among races. (It’s like Juan Thompson’s behavior is so typical among blacks. It’s like Jayson Blair’s. Obama has similar sociopathic personality but got away with his shtick cuz his white side mellowed him some.)
    So, convergence of freedoms leads to divergence of outcomes. The new outcome may be different from old outcome, but there is still divergence, not convergence.
    For example, whites used to dominate basketball and football because laws and attitudes favored whites and discriminated against blacks. So, whites ruled, and blacks were kept down or out. Later, there was equal opportunity for all. So, did it lead to convergence of results among all races in sports? No, the new divergence based on genetics led to black domination and virtual exclusion of others.

    Genes do matter. Consider the difference among Meso-Americans and black-Americans. Both were subjugated peoples whose cultures were suppressed or erased. Mesos were forced to speak Spanish and adopt Christianity. And blacks weren’t allowed to do jungle stuff on the plantations. They were trained to be docile and respectful. And they were forced to give up African voodoo stuff and adopt Christianity.

    Yet, genes affected divergent outcomes in the long run. Blacks, even as Christians, felt this genetic drive to add boogie-woogie to their worship, and eventually black Christianity went from restrained Negro spiritual to hollering walloping Gospel, sheeeeiiiit. Also, even though blacks were trained to be docile and respectful by the white massuhs, they couldn’t help acting like Chicken George and being colorful and jivey. Also, black genetics soon proved that blacky can whup whitey, as with Jack Johnson and others. Once blacks realized this genetic advantage, they began to look down on whitey as weak and wussy. So, genetics reshaped the racial relations. It went from ‘ho-de-do’ to ‘honkey dead!’

    In contrast, Meso-Americans are short. Being of distant Asiatic origin, they have some of that passive submissive Asian genes. So, they are favored as docile workers and laborers to pick tomatoes and lettuce. And even Progs talk of them that way.
    I mean no Prog would say, “Hey, all those blacks are on welfare! Why not cut the benefits and make them pick cotton and other stuff?” That would be scandalous.
    But we often hear progs say stuff about Meso-Americans in such manner: “We need Mexicans to pick tomatoes, pick lettuce, change diapers, and do all the dirty work… the kind of work we Americans won’t do because it’s beneath us and our children.”
    Now, some may argue that it’s wrong to talk of blacks picking cotton cuz of legacy of slavery. But Meso-Americans suffered conquest, slavery, ‘genocide’, mass ‘rape’, and class oppression. So, why is it wrong to see blacks as ‘cotton-pickers’ but okay to see Mexicans as ‘tomato pickers’ and ‘diaper-changers’?
    Because of genetics. Whites(even progressives) figure that blacks, being stronger and more musical, should be admired and given ‘cool’ things to do, whereas those short, squat, and dull Mexicans are a different matter despite their tragic history. Let them be like Guillermo and just say, “yes Jimmy” and pick tomatoes and change diapers. So, genes matter a lot in public perception. “We need those docile submissive Mexicans to come here to do work that no self-respecting American, white or black, would ever do.” In the South, it could be that Mexers are now picking cotton too.

    Even though culture and nature(genes) are different entities, they always function together since all cultures are processed through the nature of human emotions and drives.
    Indeed, it is amazing that, despite all attempts by whites to erase black-African culture from black slaves, so much of the African Way remained via the genes. But then, African Cultures have always been the expressions of African genes. So, even if African Cultures were to be wiped off the earth, something approximating them will arise again from black genes. Something ugabuga-ish will arise again even if not exactly same as earlier cultures.

    Whites did all they could to eliminate black jungle-ness, black hunter-warrior culture, black lasciviousness, and black voodoo paganism during slavery. Blacks were taught docility, manners, and Christianity. But given black genetics and their relation to white genes — whereupon blacks realized they could whup whitey — , black genes reasserted themselves in making black-American culture revert to the African Way.

    Likewise, so much of the Meso-American genes survived despite Conquistador project of erasure. Even though Meso-Americans underwent similar history of oppression and discrimination as blacks did, their culture and attitudes turned out different from those of Negroes due to genetic differences. Mesos are naturally more docile. And even though there are horrible crimes in Mexico, Mexicans tend to be more organized than blacks in their criminal enterprise. This owes to the fact that Mexicans, despite their mediocrity and corruption, are more likely to obey orders than blacks who just wanna wing it cuz they just feel like it.

    Nature and Culture always work together. Though Culture is not same as Nature, cultural traits and flavors derive from the nature(genes) of a people. Even among primitive cultures around the world, different tribes tend to have different rhythms to their music based on genetic differences. Compare African beat with American Indian or Eskimo beat. Compare Arab musical characteristics with those of Nordics and Slavs.

    Also, even when different peoples are given the same culture, their different genes go about using and shaping the culture in different ways. So, what blacks will do with Christianity will differ from what whites will do with it. Give blacks Buddism, and Nirvana might become a form of dance.
    And we see this in music. When blacks take from white music, they make it ‘black’. When whites take from black music, they make it ‘white’. When Japanese take from ‘white rock’ or ‘black rap’, they give it their own twist based on their genetic leanings.
    Even when one group totally tries to imitate the other group, the differences in genetics produce different results. So, even when Rolling Stones and Yardbirds were trying to be most faithful to black bluesmen, they sounded differently and created different sounds.
    We can see this among individuals too, obviously. Give the same role to different actors, and their different genes work on the role differently EVEN IF they aim for the same result. If the role of Cool Hand Luke were given to Woody Allen, Clint Eastwood, Danny Devito, Jack Nicholson, Marlon Brando, Harvey Keitel, Don Knotts, Robert Deniro, Charles Grodin, or Sean Penn, the results would vary greatly even if they all tried to do it like Paul Newman. Nature/genes do matter. They shape or reshape culture.

    Some people point to Europe and say, “But it wasn’t always advanced and powerful. It was once inhabited by pagan barbarians who were uncouth and backward.” The idea is that the rise of the West had nothing to do with genes and entirely with the kind of cultural influences that spread over there.
    Now, there is some truth to that. There is no guarantee that any people will build great civilization. At our base root, we are all savages, hairless apes. So, the rise of the West owes to certain ideas and values that spread over there and changed the way people think and act.
    If the West had been totally isolated from the developments in southern Europe, Near East, and North Africa, then who knows what might have happened? So far, so true.

    But the FALLACY among progs is this: “Because Europeans, with exposure to good ideas and values, made great progress, this must be equally true of ALL races and all humanity. And genes got nothing to do with it.”
    But this is clearly false. If Europeans had the genetic material of Australian Aborigines or Bushmen of Kalahari, could they have done much with those fine ideas that came from the South and Near East? If exposure to good ideas is the trick, why did the Japanese do more with Western ideas than Indonesians or others did?
    And if exposure to ideas is the key, then why did Jews do so much more with availability of modern education than other groups did?

    It’s like sports. It is true that black Africans achieve far less in sports than blacks in US, EU, and Canada. Blacks in modern nations have access to gyms and sports programs. Many blacks in Africa kick around a rag as a ball in dirt poor communities. So, access to modern equipment and programs make a huge difference.
    BUT, there are still differences among races in sports achievement based on genetics. In the US, ALL groups have equal access to sports, but some groups succeed far more. And this has something to do with genetics. I mean LA is filled with Mexicans and Asians, but LA Lakers is all black(and some white). Also, Nigerian immigrants achieve far more than Chinese immigrants in sports despite same access to sports. (Some will argue that this is because Chinese are more into study than sports. But maybe they don’t bother with sports since they know their chance of success is low in it. Also, China has a huge sports program funded by sports, but it is not competitive in basketball and track & field.)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/19/sports/more-nigerian-americans-are-reaching-highest-levels-of-sports.html?_r=0

    So, while it is true that the rise of the West owes a great deal to good ideas arriving from south and Near East, it is also true that whites had certain genetic attributes that made their use of those ideas more fruitful and productive than if the ideas had landed among Polynesians, Maori, Amazonian tribes, or Sudanese Nuba folks.

    But so much of the academia and media will not even consider these ideas.
    I think the main problem is emotional than intellectual. The elites develop their own culture of righteousness, propriety, sanctimony, and respectability. And certain ideas no longer just become ideas but ‘virtues’ and sacraments. So, believing in Equality isn’t just some dry idea. It is to the academic elites what belief in God was among the Jesuits. It is a MUST. (To be sure, the issue of equality is more sensitive regarding certain groups. So, if someone said his studies show that Turks are smarter than Iraqis, not many will care. But if any study shows that whites are smarter than blacks… oh boy!!! Such a view is immediately linked with the entire ‘pseudo-science’ of white ‘racism’, slavery, Nazism, etc. It’s an idea that trigger off alarm bells of moral panic.) As such, an alternative view will not be seen merely as an opinion or argument but as an infamia.

    I think scientists and intellectuals can tolerate lotsa differences of views. They can also weather refutation of their ideas as ideas. So, if someone proposed a theory, and if 100% of peers said it is dead wrong, he could live with it, and his peers wouldn’t see him as a bad guy. Just a guy who was wrong with a theory. But scientists and intellectuals also have human emotions, and most of them cannot deal with moral condemnation. Such would mean that only is their idea wrong but THEY themselves are wrong. It is akin to excommunication.
    Even the Old Church allowed debate and discussion on the nature of God and such. But there were some views that were seen as SO HERETICAL that proposing them meant more than wrongness of thought. It meant wrongness, even wickedness, of soul.

    According to PC, any deviance from RACIAL EQUALITY dogma(esp involving blacks) is an infamia. Charles Murray should know. Not only was his idea opposed but his character was attacked. He became baldie Nazi. They treated him like he blew the most wicked rotten-egg-fart in the room. Something foul came from within him.

    And this is why PC is so damaging. It doesn’t just attack an idea. It targets the emotions of the person’s entire being. And most people don’t have the stomach and spine to deal with it.
    Indeed, most intellectuals prefer to be thought of as a good person with wrong ideas than a bad person with right ideas.

    Some systems can adapt to drastic or fundamental shifts in paradigms. It’s like the West finally found a way to accept the geo-centric explanation of the solar system. It also made peace with Darwin and evolution.

    But some systems cannot allow a major shift, despite all the evidence that contradicts the dogma.
    In such cases, the revolution can happen ONLY from the outside while the system rots and rots in its own shell to the point of irrelevance.

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    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    How about if you're going to cut and paste giant 88888888 articles from your blog you use a jump cut.
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  118. @Stan Adams
    Mark Felt wasn't happy about being named after a fictional vagina.

    Deep Throat was big in '72 ... Basic Instinct was a cultural phenomenon in 1992.

    There was a brief period in the early-to-mid-'90s when "erotic thrillers" were all the rage in Hollywood. The genre gained prominence in the '80s with Body Heat, Blue Velvet, 9 1/2 Weeks, and Fatal Attraction, but reached its tacky apex around the time that Clinton took office.

    This cinematic flowering led to such unforgettable flicks as:

    * Sliver, in which Sharon Stone keeps her legs closed and Billy Baldwin bares his rump not once but several times;
    * Body of Evidence, starring Madonna as a whore on trial for S&Ming a man to death and Willem Dafoe as her well-endowed lawyer; and
    * Boxing Helena, directed by Jessica Lynch, in which Mama's-boy Julian Sands wins nasty-bitch Sherilyn Fenn's love by kidnapping her and chopping off her legs and arms; she rewards him by coaching him in the art of lovemaking

    All three of these movies were among the most-hyped releases of 1993; all three of them flopped.

    (I like Enigma, and I like bad movies, so I have something of an appreciation for Sliver and Boxing Helena.)

    The genre breathed its last in the fall of 1995, when two Joe Eszterhas*-scripted films (Showgirls and Jade**) died at the box office within weeks of each other.

    This was around the time that O.J. Simpson was acquitted. That whole spectacle was yet another example of the weirdness permeating the pop-culture scene in the '90s. The trial's shameful ending signified that black men had come a long way, baby - after centuries of struggle, they could finally get away with murdering white women (and Jewish men) in cold blood.

    *Eszterhas wrote Basic Instinct and Sliver, as well. The latter was adapted from an Ira Levin novel.

    **Jade was one of the flops that David Caruso made after leaving NYPD Blue. Caruso's example - high-flying TV star quits hit show after one year, only to watch movie career crash and burn - inspired George Clooney to stay on ER a lot longer than he might have. Eszterhas claims that William Friedkin, the director, totally rewrote his script.

    Oh, I dunno: Wild Things was released in 1998 and did okay (albeit mostly on box-office receipts from horny male teenagers…). I agree the genre is bilious, with one exception (from far before its peak):

    Body of Evidence (1993) was indeed rancid, but Lawrence Kasdan’s superb Body Heat (1981) is so sophisticated I remember its plot was used to illustrate some concepts in the casebook for my class on Wills, Trusts, & Estates many years later.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    http://web.archive.org/web/19981202213403/http://www.usfca.edu/pj/articles/BodyHeat.htm

    Like Edmund's first will, the phony second will divides the loot 50-50 between Matty and Heather, but the bequest to Heather in the second will is deliberately drafted so as to violate the rule against perpetuities. As a result the bequest to Heather in the second will is invalid. Since Matty is the sole intestate heir, she takes the entire estate.

    But what was the perpetuities problem in the second will? We're not told exactly, but presumably the trust for Heather included a contingent remainder, where the contingency could not vest during the period of lives-in-being-plus-21-years. Under the traditional version of the rule against perpetuities, the presence of such a contingency (however unlikely to materialize) invalidates the gift (unless the will contained a "savings clause" which obviously it didn't).

    Trouble is, before the film was shot, Florida had abolished this form of the rule against perpetuities. Instead it took a wait-and-see approach, under which the gift remains valid unless and until the interest actually fails to vest within the perpetuities period. Thus under the Florida rule, the second will was entirely valid and Heather gets half. How could the film makers have made such an error?

    My colleague, perpetuities guru Jesse Dukeminier, tracked down the technical adviser to the movie. It seems that the film was originally set in New Jersey which at the time followed the traditional rule against perpetuities. Because of a Teamster's strike in the New York-New Jersey area, the movie was moved to Florida and the story rewritten to occur there. But nobody took into account that Florida's rule is different from New Jersey's.
    , @Mr. Anon

    Oh, I dunno: Wild Things was released in 1998 and did okay (albeit mostly on box-office receipts from horny male teenagers…).
     
    Wild Things was trash. Tawdry, lurid trash.

    It was great!

    I was struck by the fact that Denise Richards' very first line in that movie was "F**k off!" It set the tone for the whole movie. And what I found especially good was the way they cast Kevin Bacon (playing against type) as the upright, decent cop, instead of the usual slimy sleeze-bag character he typically plays. And then.............he turns out to be a slimy sleezebag.
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  119. fnn says:
    @guest
    I didn't read the article, and don't want to, but I wonder, did they go the fascism route? If not, it's only a matter of time. I don't mean conspiracy theories about the Joos. I mean the "ominously parallels" between the "drain the swamp" ideology of Team Trump and thinkers with connections to fascism, like Gaetano Mosca ( The Ruling Class), Robert Michels (Political Parties), and Vilfredo Pareto (Rise and Fall of the Elites). Team Trump has already vocalized heretical knowledge of the forbidden texts of Julius Evola, not to mention the downright Hitlerian music of one Giacomo Puccini.

    It is well-known--in my brain as I make it up on the fly--that these evil right-wing (though possibly socialist, but what does that matter? We all know who national socialists were), mostly Italian or Italian-y (Michels was a German, as you can tell by his name, who I think ended up in Italy) but who for convenience's sake we'll call Nazis, influenced the Paranoid Style in American Politics. The kind which found popularity in the discredited (by the left-wing MSM and educational system) John Birch/Joe McCarthy supposedly anti-communist but really anti-midcentury consensus liberalism. (That's what they'd say, anyway.)

    When the New Left, for instance, was paranoid about Cointelpro or Richard Nixon, it was because those forces were fascist, so it was okay. Trump is a fascist, so he's not allowed to be paranoid, ipso facto. In fact, he not allowed to do anything, and should go home and let NYT-approved people take over. Loyal functionaries in the federal bureaucracy and especially the CIA should handle that if he doesn't leave voluntarily. Not that the public should be informed, because they can't handle the truth. Better it be done in secret so we can maintain the illusion of democracy.

    But that wouldn't be the Deep State at work, or anything. What are you, a fascist Bircher, McCarthyite, Nixonian, Trumpster?

    Semi-secret Alt-Right hand signal sighted at the White House:

    http://logicalmeme.com/?p=10066

    Largely unnoticed, however, was a curious hand gesture made by the 10-year-old toward the end of the footage. In a simpler time, the gesture could have been written off as an “ok” symbol… but not today. The hand movement bears a striking similarity to one that has often been made by the ultimate Trump meme warrior, Pepe the Frog.

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    • Replies: @a reader
    This curious hand gesture is the internationally recognized diving OK sign.

    Only 4,000,000 people [in the world] are aware of this hate fact.
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  120. Why is it that Trump can’t order his appointees (Pompano, etc) to purge their respective organizations of the trouble makers, like, this week? If the agency is temporarily unable to function during the reconstruction of a leaner organization, America will survive.

    If the appointee won’t do it, a strong possibility, fire him and appoint someone who will.

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  121. fnn says:
    @PV van der Byl
    That much makes sense to me. But, Bernstein was a red diaper baby.

    But, Bernstein was a red diaper baby.

    OSS, predecessor agency of CIA, was riddled with Communists, as a Google search will tell you. You will get WaPo as one of the hits, not just the John Birch Society.

    Also:

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Operation_Mockingbird#Directorate_for_Plans

    J. Edgar Hoover became jealous of the CIA’s growing power. Institutionally, the organizations were very different, with the CIA holding a more politically diverse group in contrast to the more conservative FBI. This was reflected in Hoover’s description of the OPC as “Wisner’s gang of weirdos”. Hoover began having investigations done into Wisner’s people. He found that some of them had been active in left-wing politics in the 1930s. This information was passed to Senator Joseph McCarthy who started making attacks on members of the OPC. Hoover also gave McCarthy details of an affair that Frank Wisner had with Princess Caradja in Romania during the war. Hoover claimed that Caradja was a Soviet agent.[12]

    McCarthy, as part of his campaign against government, began accusing other senior members of the CIA as being security risks. McCarthy claimed that the CIA was a “sinkhole of communists”, and said he would root out a hundred of them. One of his first targets was Cord Meyer, who was still working for Operation Mockingbird. In August 1953, Richard Helms, Wisner’s deputy at the OPC, told Meyer that McCarthy had accused him of being a communist. The Federal Bureau of Investigation said it was unwilling to give Meyer “security clearance”, without referring to any evidence against him. Allen W. Dulles and Frank Wisner both came to his defense and refused to permit an FBI interrogation of Meyer.[13]

    With the network in authority in the CIA threatened, Wisner was directed to unleash Mockingbird on McCarthy. Drew Pearson, Joe Alsop, Jack Anderson, Walter Lippmann and Ed Murrow all engaged in intensely negative coverage of McCarthy. According to Jack Anderson, his political reputation was permanently damaged by the press coverage orchestrated by Wisner.[14]

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  122. whorefinder says: • Website
    @PV van der Byl
    But that would require the interest of, at the very least, one guy at CIA. They have what, 30,000-40,000 people? And most of those would not have access to the systems and data bases you are thinking of.

    Given the demands on their time, what percentage of the U.S. population could they really monitor?

    Dude, have you not heard of the Utah Data Center:

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Utah_Data_Center

    So the idea that they can’t store information on every single American simultaneously is wrong.

    What’s more, as Wikileaks and Snowden keep revealing, the feds are about 5-10 years ahead of where everyone thinks they are in terms of surveillance. You think they already haven’t figured out ways to process these huge volumes of information that we don’t know about yet?

    I seriously don’t want to sound like some caricature of Alex Jones, but wake up sheeple!

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    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Clearly, the Utah Data Center is no secret.

    It contains many dots.

    It doesn't necessarily follow that the dots will be connected, however. The NSA has always had massive data storage capacity.

    Edward Snowden spent years commenting on Ars Technica in a manner strongly suggesting he would be a security risk to the NSA.

    For some reason, this went unnoticed until he moved to Russia.
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  123. anonguy says:

    The CIA hack posted on wikileaks today was a salvo back against the Deep State by its shadowy enemies, that is for sure.

    Beyond that, I really have to congratulate you, Steve, on the foreseeing the larger secular trend, the end of secrecy, of which this development is part and parcel, that seminal article you wrote last fall.

    History before our eyes, and much of it predicted, so not particularly surprising, which is kind of weird. Maybe in a huge information availability environment there is always going to be a significant fraction of uncannily correct prognosticators or prognostication community. The key is just identifying them….

    The existence of PC, which causes society to ignore obvious truths, probably enhances the conditions for a minority, prescient, and by nature somewhat outlaw, demographic.

    Entirely new society emerging here guys….

    Interesting times, like 1989, remember them.

    Oh, BTW, luck o’the Trump suggests that the CIA hack of surveillance tools will eventually confirm Trump’s assertion that his campaign was wiretapped.

    Probably not much luck to it, if you think about it.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Maybe Trump's election has something to do with the end of secrecy? The guy who worked hardest to live his life in the spotlight gets elected President.
    , @Jack Hanson
    Alex Jones has been more correct than Sailer in the last year.
    , @anon

    The existence of PC, which causes society to ignore obvious truths, probably enhances the conditions for a minority, prescient, and by nature somewhat outlaw, demographic.
     
    yes
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  124. whorefinder says: • Website
    @Stan Adams
    Mark Felt wasn't happy about being named after a fictional vagina.

    Deep Throat was big in '72 ... Basic Instinct was a cultural phenomenon in 1992.

    There was a brief period in the early-to-mid-'90s when "erotic thrillers" were all the rage in Hollywood. The genre gained prominence in the '80s with Body Heat, Blue Velvet, 9 1/2 Weeks, and Fatal Attraction, but reached its tacky apex around the time that Clinton took office.

    This cinematic flowering led to such unforgettable flicks as:

    * Sliver, in which Sharon Stone keeps her legs closed and Billy Baldwin bares his rump not once but several times;
    * Body of Evidence, starring Madonna as a whore on trial for S&Ming a man to death and Willem Dafoe as her well-endowed lawyer; and
    * Boxing Helena, directed by Jessica Lynch, in which Mama's-boy Julian Sands wins nasty-bitch Sherilyn Fenn's love by kidnapping her and chopping off her legs and arms; she rewards him by coaching him in the art of lovemaking

    All three of these movies were among the most-hyped releases of 1993; all three of them flopped.

    (I like Enigma, and I like bad movies, so I have something of an appreciation for Sliver and Boxing Helena.)

    The genre breathed its last in the fall of 1995, when two Joe Eszterhas*-scripted films (Showgirls and Jade**) died at the box office within weeks of each other.

    This was around the time that O.J. Simpson was acquitted. That whole spectacle was yet another example of the weirdness permeating the pop-culture scene in the '90s. The trial's shameful ending signified that black men had come a long way, baby - after centuries of struggle, they could finally get away with murdering white women (and Jewish men) in cold blood.

    *Eszterhas wrote Basic Instinct and Sliver, as well. The latter was adapted from an Ira Levin novel.

    **Jade was one of the flops that David Caruso made after leaving NYPD Blue. Caruso's example - high-flying TV star quits hit show after one year, only to watch movie career crash and burn - inspired George Clooney to stay on ER a lot longer than he might have. Eszterhas claims that William Friedkin, the director, totally rewrote his script.

    There was a brief period in the early-to-mid-’90s when “erotic thrillers” were all the rage in Hollywood. The genre gained prominence in the ’80s with Body Heat, Blue Velvet, 9 1/2 Weeks, and Fatal Attraction, but reached its tacky apex around the time that Clinton took office.

    Yeah, the Clinton sex dramas really made Hollywood pull back on the erotic thrillers, and turn back to making movies like The American President a defense of Bill if Bill were from an alternate dimension. That, and the “thriller” film was getting to be tired by the end of the 1990s.

    Of course, the “thriller” films were a 1990s cover story, a convenient tag when you didn’t want to call your movie what it was—usually an action or horror film. For example, Silence of the Lambs was the original blockbuster “thriller” when it was really a horror film mixed with a crime caper, or, perhaps, a movie about a woman struggling with her career and her attraction to dark psychotic men, similar to how Arrival was really a movie for women about breaking up.

    Many adult-oriented action movies in the 1990s were called “thrillers”, probably to try to make sure both sexes came to the theater. For example, Point of No Return and The Pelican Brief and The Fugitive were call marketed as thrillers. The Pierce Brosnan-James Bond films of the period were shot in thriller format.

    inspired George Clooney to stay on ER a lot longer than he might have.

    Probably a good idea, as George’s early movie role choices of The Peacemaker and Batman & Robin showed he needed a better script reader and better instincts about directors.

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    • Replies: @Captain Tripps

    For example, Point of No Return and The Pelican Brief and The Fugitive were call marketed as thrillers. The Pierce Brosnan-James Bond films of the period were shot in thriller format.
     
    Could the crime/action film Heat (1995) also be classified as a thriller? Unlike The Fugitive there were actual romantic sub-plots (Val Kilmer-Ashley Judd; Robert DeNiro-Amy Brenneman) that could pull in the ladies for a couples night out at the movies. The Fugitive sort of lacked that, although the implied deep love between Harrison Ford and Sela Ward, only briefly portrayed in flashback, was built in the background early in the film. That could keep a segment of the ladies interested, I presume.
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  125. Clyde says:

    OT OT OT
    From the New Yorker Mag
    Philip Roth on Donald Trump. Calls him a con man….how original! http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/philip-roth-e-mails-on-trump

    January 2017

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  126. Clyde says:

    OT OT
    Owner rejects $1.79 million offer for equestrian centre ‘on principle’ – because buyers were a group of Muslim businessmen who wanted to build an Islamic prayer room
    Owner of equestrian centre rejects $1.79 million offer from Muslim businessmen
    Gainsborough Equestrian Centre owner John O’Leary rejected offer ‘on principle’
    Plans showed a function centre with prayer room – but it was not a mosque
    ‘We want Australia to remain Australia and not disappear,’ Mr O’Leary said http://dailym.ai/2n4aOy3

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  127. SFG says:
    @Jefferson
    Snoop Dogg is teaming up with The Koch on promoting drug legalization and criminal justice reform.
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2017/03/06/koch-institute-teaming-snoop-dogg-sxsw-tackle-criminal-justice-reform/

    Nobody in the African American community is calling Snoop Dogg an Uncle Tom sellout Black on the outside White on the inside for working with The Koch Brothers because the Left no longer sees The Koch Brothers as Bad Whites who belong to the political Right.

    The Koch Brothers have won over the hearts of a lot of People Of Color and White Liberals for being Never Trumpers.

    Hey, at least we’ll get an album out of this, and maybe the Koch brothers will gain a little weight.

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  128. Lugash says:
    @PV van der Byl
    But that would require the interest of, at the very least, one guy at CIA. They have what, 30,000-40,000 people? And most of those would not have access to the systems and data bases you are thinking of.

    Given the demands on their time, what percentage of the U.S. population could they really monitor?

    Given the demands on their time, what percentage of the U.S. population could they really monitor?

    The entire US, scratch that, world, population is monitored at this point. All your web browsing, emails, social media, phone calls and location data are swept up automatically and stored forever. There’s probably simple heuristics that get applied to everyone at this point… are you speaking Arabic, have you traveled to the Middle East, do you search for suspicious things etc. If someday PV van der Byl comes to the attention of the Deep State, say as a Dutch lawmaker who’s opposing something the US wants, the databases get searched for compromising materials.

    The critical point isn’t the surveillance and interception, that’s been done for years. It’s that now it’s done at world wide scale, stored forever and easily searchable.

    I have no doubt that every visitor to this blog has their data sitting in a “Countering violent domestic extremism” database courtesy of Obama and Holder as well.

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    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    One would think, with all that monitoring ability, the NSA and CIA could prevent wikileaks from receiving gigabytes of their most sensitive information.

    Perhaps, even, apprehend some of the miscreants.
    , @Dan Hayes
    Lugash,

    I too would be very surprised if all UR denizens had not and are not being monitored!
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  129. Barnard says:

    OT: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/why-silicon-valley-really-wants-more-diversity/

    An interesting analysis of the diversity agenda in Silicon Valley.

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  130. @Lugash

    Given the demands on their time, what percentage of the U.S. population could they really monitor?
     
    The entire US, scratch that, world, population is monitored at this point. All your web browsing, emails, social media, phone calls and location data are swept up automatically and stored forever. There's probably simple heuristics that get applied to everyone at this point... are you speaking Arabic, have you traveled to the Middle East, do you search for suspicious things etc. If someday PV van der Byl comes to the attention of the Deep State, say as a Dutch lawmaker who's opposing something the US wants, the databases get searched for compromising materials.

    The critical point isn't the surveillance and interception, that's been done for years. It's that now it's done at world wide scale, stored forever and easily searchable.

    I have no doubt that every visitor to this blog has their data sitting in a "Countering violent domestic extremism" database courtesy of Obama and Holder as well.

    One would think, with all that monitoring ability, the NSA and CIA could prevent wikileaks from receiving gigabytes of their most sensitive information.

    Perhaps, even, apprehend some of the miscreants.

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    • Agree: Coemgen
    • Replies: @Lugash
    The Deep State wasn't watching its own house. It's gotten too large and sloppy due to outsourcing. tPost-Snowden they've started intense targeting of its own employees with the 'Insider Threat Program'. That's probably what got Hal Martin.
    , @Boomstick
    My takeaway is that the CIA is penetrated six ways to Sunday. It's just easier to spot now, because every few years one of them dumps to wikileaks. Before that they were selling to the KGB, the Chinese, the North Koreans, the Cubans, and Grand Fenwick.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    Yeah, every classified machine I've ever worked on had its USB ports disabled, and there is an air gap between the Siprnet (secret) and the public internet. The only other way to get info out is to burn CDs and then walk them out. Risky.
    , @reiner Tor

    Perhaps, even, apprehend some of the miscreants.
     
    But they do get them. Snowden was already on board a plane, and they knew it was him, it's not like he could've stayed home hiding it from them. Brad Manning was caught. This new guy will be caught, too.

    I think what made this guy possible was the fact that Obama made classified data available to many people, and probably they deliberately made it easier for leaks to happen (against Trump). That leaks also happened at the exact same time against the deep state was an unintended side effect.

    But I'm sure they will catch him.
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  131. JohnnyGeo says:

    ot: anyone want to lay odds on the ethnicity of the perps in the case of the rhino poached in the Paris zoo?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-rhino-idUSKBN16E209

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    Haven Monaghan, KKK member.
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  132. Clyde says:
    @Lugash

    Nor is it clear what Obama’s endgame is, whereas TR had a clear one — re-elect himself instead of Taft in the next election. Remove Trump and Pence and what … install Oprah via a House vote agreed upon by Paul Ryan? Bob Iger of Disney? Zuck? George Clooney? All have been mooted about as potential Presidents.
     
    I think Obama's been selected as the figure head for the Resistance to rally around. The Deep State finally wised up enough to figure out that Hilary's too old, senile and corrupt to remove Trump. Since Obama's too lazy to actually do anything, others will do the actual resistance. As you noted Jarrett has moved back into the Obama residence.

    Short term, they just want Trump out. Pence can be managed, and would probably cuck out on his own anyway. Long term they'll try a better presidential candidate. No need for Constitutional machinations or Hollywood candidates.

    I think Obama’s been selected as the figure head for the Resistance to rally around. The Deep State finally wised up enough to figure out that Hilary’s too old, senile and corrupt to remove Trump. Since Obama’s too lazy to actually do anything, others will do the actual resistance.

    It helps to have a figurehead or leader. Funny how the egalitarian communists always had cult of personalty types lead their nations. Still do with epic haircut guy Kim Jung Un and the Castro brothers reign which just ended. I heard a commentator say this is why the Tea Party slowly faded, in addition to Lois Learner/IRS sabotaging fund raising by many Tea Party groups. Lazy Obama with still high approval ratings, is a fine choice. While Hillary is headed to the glue factory. I will bet that today she is glad she lost. Now that she is off the Presidential treadmill with all its hoopla, she realizes that she rather slow down and enjoy her golden years w Bill.

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  133. @anonguy
    The CIA hack posted on wikileaks today was a salvo back against the Deep State by its shadowy enemies, that is for sure.

    Beyond that, I really have to congratulate you, Steve, on the foreseeing the larger secular trend, the end of secrecy, of which this development is part and parcel, that seminal article you wrote last fall.

    History before our eyes, and much of it predicted, so not particularly surprising, which is kind of weird. Maybe in a huge information availability environment there is always going to be a significant fraction of uncannily correct prognosticators or prognostication community. The key is just identifying them....

    The existence of PC, which causes society to ignore obvious truths, probably enhances the conditions for a minority, prescient, and by nature somewhat outlaw, demographic.

    Entirely new society emerging here guys....

    Interesting times, like 1989, remember them.

    Oh, BTW, luck o'the Trump suggests that the CIA hack of surveillance tools will eventually confirm Trump's assertion that his campaign was wiretapped.

    Probably not much luck to it, if you think about it.

    Maybe Trump’s election has something to do with the end of secrecy? The guy who worked hardest to live his life in the spotlight gets elected President.

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    • Replies: @anonguy

    Maybe Trump’s election has something to do with the end of secrecy? The guy who worked hardest to live his life in the spotlight gets elected President.
     
    Right. The control of informaton previously had lots of secrecy barriers in the mix, a regime which is breaking down before our eyes.

    Now it is the utter primacy of narrative, which indeed has been on the ascendancy since forever, but with the breakdown of secrecy, it is all narrative, all the way down, constructed from the endless smorgasbord of uncontrolled information/facts/data which are all objectively true under some objective microscopes, atoms of carbon based narrative life forms.

    Whoa, whatever, step back from the bong, dude....

    Anyhow, hence Trump, as you note, master of the narrative.

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  134. @Jefferson
    "Obama is the first President ever to both stick around in DC,"

    Barack Hussein Obama doesn't miss living in Chicago. I wonder why? Is Chicago overrated?

    Barack Hussein Obama doesn’t miss living in Chicago. I wonder why? Is Chicago overrated?

    As a stepping stone for Obama, no.

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  135. Dan Hayes says:
    @Lugash

    Given the demands on their time, what percentage of the U.S. population could they really monitor?
     
    The entire US, scratch that, world, population is monitored at this point. All your web browsing, emails, social media, phone calls and location data are swept up automatically and stored forever. There's probably simple heuristics that get applied to everyone at this point... are you speaking Arabic, have you traveled to the Middle East, do you search for suspicious things etc. If someday PV van der Byl comes to the attention of the Deep State, say as a Dutch lawmaker who's opposing something the US wants, the databases get searched for compromising materials.

    The critical point isn't the surveillance and interception, that's been done for years. It's that now it's done at world wide scale, stored forever and easily searchable.

    I have no doubt that every visitor to this blog has their data sitting in a "Countering violent domestic extremism" database courtesy of Obama and Holder as well.

    Lugash,

    I too would be very surprised if all UR denizens had not and are not being monitored!

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  136. eD says:
    @Lot
    My suggestion here several months ago that Trump do a kabuki fake attempt to repeal Obamacare but not actually do it seems to have been taken up now by Trump in cooperation with Paul Ryan and possibly other elements of the GOPe:

    http://theweek.com/articles/684473/did-paul-ryan-intentionally-sabotage-health-care-plan

    Hard money is the other bad idea from the right that could kill Trump's reelection.

    Finding some soft money people to put on the Fed who also are not left wingers who will strategically vote for hard money just to kill the economy in 2019-2020 will not be an easy task for Trump. But there should at least be a handful of economists affiliated with the more conservative private sector unions who are for soft money but not anti-Trump SJWs. The other option would be Wall Streeters with personal loyalty to Trump but without any history of being gold buggers.

    “My suggestion here several months ago that Trump do a kabuki fake attempt to repeal Obamacare but not actually do it seems to have been taken up now by Trump in cooperation with Paul Ryan and possibly other elements of the GOPe:”

    Off topic, but that was my take on this too.

    The Republican problem was that that Obamacare WAS the Republican health care plan. The entire problem of the base was that it was associated with Obama.

    So they will get something through the House that is guaranteed to die in the Senate and say that they tried. A better option would be to make some cosmetic changes and call it “Trumpcare” but there were too many ideologues in the House for that to work.

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  137. @Anon
    The Prog Problem or Proglem.

    Progs saw society and noticed social inequalities. Some inequalities resulted from laws and cultures. Laws might favor one group over others. Or culture might restrain some groups from opening up to new opportunities. It's like some ultra-orthodox Jews stuck with old way and say NO to new way.

    So, there were lots of divisions and inequalities among many groups.

    Progs figure more freedom, more equality under the law, and more opportunity would result in equal success for all groups. Convergence of rights, freedoms, and opportunities would lead to the convergence of results. This could have been the case IF all groups were equal in everything except social treatment and cultural attitudes.
    But as things turn out, there are genetic differences among races. (It's like Juan Thompson's behavior is so typical among blacks. It's like Jayson Blair's. Obama has similar sociopathic personality but got away with his shtick cuz his white side mellowed him some.)
    So, convergence of freedoms leads to divergence of outcomes. The new outcome may be different from old outcome, but there is still divergence, not convergence.
    For example, whites used to dominate basketball and football because laws and attitudes favored whites and discriminated against blacks. So, whites ruled, and blacks were kept down or out. Later, there was equal opportunity for all. So, did it lead to convergence of results among all races in sports? No, the new divergence based on genetics led to black domination and virtual exclusion of others.

    Genes do matter. Consider the difference among Meso-Americans and black-Americans. Both were subjugated peoples whose cultures were suppressed or erased. Mesos were forced to speak Spanish and adopt Christianity. And blacks weren't allowed to do jungle stuff on the plantations. They were trained to be docile and respectful. And they were forced to give up African voodoo stuff and adopt Christianity.

    Yet, genes affected divergent outcomes in the long run. Blacks, even as Christians, felt this genetic drive to add boogie-woogie to their worship, and eventually black Christianity went from restrained Negro spiritual to hollering walloping Gospel, sheeeeiiiit. Also, even though blacks were trained to be docile and respectful by the white massuhs, they couldn't help acting like Chicken George and being colorful and jivey. Also, black genetics soon proved that blacky can whup whitey, as with Jack Johnson and others. Once blacks realized this genetic advantage, they began to look down on whitey as weak and wussy. So, genetics reshaped the racial relations. It went from 'ho-de-do' to 'honkey dead!'

    In contrast, Meso-Americans are short. Being of distant Asiatic origin, they have some of that passive submissive Asian genes. So, they are favored as docile workers and laborers to pick tomatoes and lettuce. And even Progs talk of them that way.
    I mean no Prog would say, "Hey, all those blacks are on welfare! Why not cut the benefits and make them pick cotton and other stuff?" That would be scandalous.
    But we often hear progs say stuff about Meso-Americans in such manner: "We need Mexicans to pick tomatoes, pick lettuce, change diapers, and do all the dirty work... the kind of work we Americans won't do because it's beneath us and our children."
    Now, some may argue that it's wrong to talk of blacks picking cotton cuz of legacy of slavery. But Meso-Americans suffered conquest, slavery, 'genocide', mass 'rape', and class oppression. So, why is it wrong to see blacks as 'cotton-pickers' but okay to see Mexicans as 'tomato pickers' and 'diaper-changers'?
    Because of genetics. Whites(even progressives) figure that blacks, being stronger and more musical, should be admired and given 'cool' things to do, whereas those short, squat, and dull Mexicans are a different matter despite their tragic history. Let them be like Guillermo and just say, "yes Jimmy" and pick tomatoes and change diapers. So, genes matter a lot in public perception. "We need those docile submissive Mexicans to come here to do work that no self-respecting American, white or black, would ever do." In the South, it could be that Mexers are now picking cotton too.

    Even though culture and nature(genes) are different entities, they always function together since all cultures are processed through the nature of human emotions and drives.
    Indeed, it is amazing that, despite all attempts by whites to erase black-African culture from black slaves, so much of the African Way remained via the genes. But then, African Cultures have always been the expressions of African genes. So, even if African Cultures were to be wiped off the earth, something approximating them will arise again from black genes. Something ugabuga-ish will arise again even if not exactly same as earlier cultures.

    Whites did all they could to eliminate black jungle-ness, black hunter-warrior culture, black lasciviousness, and black voodoo paganism during slavery. Blacks were taught docility, manners, and Christianity. But given black genetics and their relation to white genes --- whereupon blacks realized they could whup whitey --- , black genes reasserted themselves in making black-American culture revert to the African Way.

    Likewise, so much of the Meso-American genes survived despite Conquistador project of erasure. Even though Meso-Americans underwent similar history of oppression and discrimination as blacks did, their culture and attitudes turned out different from those of Negroes due to genetic differences. Mesos are naturally more docile. And even though there are horrible crimes in Mexico, Mexicans tend to be more organized than blacks in their criminal enterprise. This owes to the fact that Mexicans, despite their mediocrity and corruption, are more likely to obey orders than blacks who just wanna wing it cuz they just feel like it.

    Nature and Culture always work together. Though Culture is not same as Nature, cultural traits and flavors derive from the nature(genes) of a people. Even among primitive cultures around the world, different tribes tend to have different rhythms to their music based on genetic differences. Compare African beat with American Indian or Eskimo beat. Compare Arab musical characteristics with those of Nordics and Slavs.

    Also, even when different peoples are given the same culture, their different genes go about using and shaping the culture in different ways. So, what blacks will do with Christianity will differ from what whites will do with it. Give blacks Buddism, and Nirvana might become a form of dance.
    And we see this in music. When blacks take from white music, they make it 'black'. When whites take from black music, they make it 'white'. When Japanese take from 'white rock' or 'black rap', they give it their own twist based on their genetic leanings.
    Even when one group totally tries to imitate the other group, the differences in genetics produce different results. So, even when Rolling Stones and Yardbirds were trying to be most faithful to black bluesmen, they sounded differently and created different sounds.
    We can see this among individuals too, obviously. Give the same role to different actors, and their different genes work on the role differently EVEN IF they aim for the same result. If the role of Cool Hand Luke were given to Woody Allen, Clint Eastwood, Danny Devito, Jack Nicholson, Marlon Brando, Harvey Keitel, Don Knotts, Robert Deniro, Charles Grodin, or Sean Penn, the results would vary greatly even if they all tried to do it like Paul Newman. Nature/genes do matter. They shape or reshape culture.

    Some people point to Europe and say, "But it wasn't always advanced and powerful. It was once inhabited by pagan barbarians who were uncouth and backward." The idea is that the rise of the West had nothing to do with genes and entirely with the kind of cultural influences that spread over there.
    Now, there is some truth to that. There is no guarantee that any people will build great civilization. At our base root, we are all savages, hairless apes. So, the rise of the West owes to certain ideas and values that spread over there and changed the way people think and act.
    If the West had been totally isolated from the developments in southern Europe, Near East, and North Africa, then who knows what might have happened? So far, so true.

    But the FALLACY among progs is this: "Because Europeans, with exposure to good ideas and values, made great progress, this must be equally true of ALL races and all humanity. And genes got nothing to do with it."
    But this is clearly false. If Europeans had the genetic material of Australian Aborigines or Bushmen of Kalahari, could they have done much with those fine ideas that came from the South and Near East? If exposure to good ideas is the trick, why did the Japanese do more with Western ideas than Indonesians or others did?
    And if exposure to ideas is the key, then why did Jews do so much more with availability of modern education than other groups did?

    It's like sports. It is true that black Africans achieve far less in sports than blacks in US, EU, and Canada. Blacks in modern nations have access to gyms and sports programs. Many blacks in Africa kick around a rag as a ball in dirt poor communities. So, access to modern equipment and programs make a huge difference.
    BUT, there are still differences among races in sports achievement based on genetics. In the US, ALL groups have equal access to sports, but some groups succeed far more. And this has something to do with genetics. I mean LA is filled with Mexicans and Asians, but LA Lakers is all black(and some white). Also, Nigerian immigrants achieve far more than Chinese immigrants in sports despite same access to sports. (Some will argue that this is because Chinese are more into study than sports. But maybe they don't bother with sports since they know their chance of success is low in it. Also, China has a huge sports program funded by sports, but it is not competitive in basketball and track & field.)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/19/sports/more-nigerian-americans-are-reaching-highest-levels-of-sports.html?_r=0

    So, while it is true that the rise of the West owes a great deal to good ideas arriving from south and Near East, it is also true that whites had certain genetic attributes that made their use of those ideas more fruitful and productive than if the ideas had landed among Polynesians, Maori, Amazonian tribes, or Sudanese Nuba folks.

    But so much of the academia and media will not even consider these ideas.
    I think the main problem is emotional than intellectual. The elites develop their own culture of righteousness, propriety, sanctimony, and respectability. And certain ideas no longer just become ideas but 'virtues' and sacraments. So, believing in Equality isn't just some dry idea. It is to the academic elites what belief in God was among the Jesuits. It is a MUST. (To be sure, the issue of equality is more sensitive regarding certain groups. So, if someone said his studies show that Turks are smarter than Iraqis, not many will care. But if any study shows that whites are smarter than blacks... oh boy!!! Such a view is immediately linked with the entire 'pseudo-science' of white 'racism', slavery, Nazism, etc. It's an idea that trigger off alarm bells of moral panic.) As such, an alternative view will not be seen merely as an opinion or argument but as an infamia.

    https://youtu.be/6jpwqWPKAUc?t=2m59s

    I think scientists and intellectuals can tolerate lotsa differences of views. They can also weather refutation of their ideas as ideas. So, if someone proposed a theory, and if 100% of peers said it is dead wrong, he could live with it, and his peers wouldn't see him as a bad guy. Just a guy who was wrong with a theory. But scientists and intellectuals also have human emotions, and most of them cannot deal with moral condemnation. Such would mean that only is their idea wrong but THEY themselves are wrong. It is akin to excommunication.
    Even the Old Church allowed debate and discussion on the nature of God and such. But there were some views that were seen as SO HERETICAL that proposing them meant more than wrongness of thought. It meant wrongness, even wickedness, of soul.

    According to PC, any deviance from RACIAL EQUALITY dogma(esp involving blacks) is an infamia. Charles Murray should know. Not only was his idea opposed but his character was attacked. He became baldie Nazi. They treated him like he blew the most wicked rotten-egg-fart in the room. Something foul came from within him.

    And this is why PC is so damaging. It doesn't just attack an idea. It targets the emotions of the person's entire being. And most people don't have the stomach and spine to deal with it.
    Indeed, most intellectuals prefer to be thought of as a good person with wrong ideas than a bad person with right ideas.

    Some systems can adapt to drastic or fundamental shifts in paradigms. It's like the West finally found a way to accept the geo-centric explanation of the solar system. It also made peace with Darwin and evolution.

    But some systems cannot allow a major shift, despite all the evidence that contradicts the dogma.
    In such cases, the revolution can happen ONLY from the outside while the system rots and rots in its own shell to the point of irrelevance.

    How about if you’re going to cut and paste giant 88888888 articles from your blog you use a jump cut.

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  138. Right here on this blog, I believe, we have heard that Mark Felt’s wife used to tell people that her husband was “Deep Throat”, but no one believed her.

    Liekwise, going back 150 years, we have heard from people in the know like Disraeli, House (and Wilson), and Bernays that the real governing power is concealed from us.

    Disraeli:

    The world is governed by very different personages to what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes.

    T. Roosevelt:

    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.

    Wilson:

    Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men’s views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.

    Bernays:

    The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.

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  139. guest says:
    @Autochthon
    You know, Ive never understood, for hr life of me, ehybwe have all these redundant, civilian outfits in the first place. Shouldn't all the crap the NSA does be handled by cryptographers and similar rates (MOS) from the navy, army, and air force? We have a huge military outfit doing that kind of thibg already, why wasn't it grown and the stuff NSA does addd to its responsibilities?

    Likewise, the CIA should be remilitarised, back to its origins as the OSS: it should be a bunch of SEALs, pararescuemen, rangers, etc., no?

    Military personnel in the U.S.A. have historically and by international standards been astoundingly apolitical. The filters of having to undergo basic training and then the grueling stuff required to become a special operator themselves help weed out weirdos, dingbats, the antisocial, disloyal, etc. Being in the military makes accountability much easier, swifter, and harsher. No unions, no contracts, no bonuses and kickbacks through layers of contractors: your ass just belongs to Uncle Sam. You screw up, you get a court martial and a vacation in Leavenworth. Probably cheaper, too, then what civilians with inflated degrees from Harvard and Stanford demand.

    I'm probably missing something. I'm genuinely pretty ignorant about spook stuff. The FBI I get because their primary purpose is domestic law enforcement – you don't want the armed forces doing that. But I want to understand why all this other crap related to national defense isn't squarely within the bailiwick of the military.

    I'm genuinely seeking enlightenment with this post: what don't I understand?

    To understand why the CIA and other agencies came into existence, you can’t look at it rationally. You have to dig into the history. Then it comes down to timing, what was needed (or was thought to be needed) when, “mission creep,” public political games we no longer remember, outside pressures (the other guys’ CIA), the special needs someone thought only the CIA could deliver upon (you know, establishing ties to all the worst people in the world, wasting money, murdering people), personalities (Truman trusted this guy instead of that to give him information at such and such a time, or whatever), and factional struggles.

    But those last two are “conspiracy theory” territory. No, no, decisions aren’t made by actual people with actual loyalties to things other than Truth, Justice and the American Blah. They’re made by experts with slide rules, or something.

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    The CIA came into existence because the US and the UK could no longer rely in MI6 to carry out the work of global subversion by itself. The British were broke after WWII, we were not.

    The people that make up the FBI aim to win criminal convictions, very by-the-book. They are not at all equipped to act as foreign subversives or as a secret police. That's why we have both the CIA and the SPLC.

    The USSR made this much easier to identify because all of this was centralized in the KGB, which remained organized using military ranks.
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  140. @anonguy
    The CIA hack posted on wikileaks today was a salvo back against the Deep State by its shadowy enemies, that is for sure.

    Beyond that, I really have to congratulate you, Steve, on the foreseeing the larger secular trend, the end of secrecy, of which this development is part and parcel, that seminal article you wrote last fall.

    History before our eyes, and much of it predicted, so not particularly surprising, which is kind of weird. Maybe in a huge information availability environment there is always going to be a significant fraction of uncannily correct prognosticators or prognostication community. The key is just identifying them....

    The existence of PC, which causes society to ignore obvious truths, probably enhances the conditions for a minority, prescient, and by nature somewhat outlaw, demographic.

    Entirely new society emerging here guys....

    Interesting times, like 1989, remember them.

    Oh, BTW, luck o'the Trump suggests that the CIA hack of surveillance tools will eventually confirm Trump's assertion that his campaign was wiretapped.

    Probably not much luck to it, if you think about it.

    Alex Jones has been more correct than Sailer in the last year.

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    • Replies: @40 Acres and A Kardashian
    LMAO

    Yeah, right.
    , @anonguy
    How do you measure correctness of predictions?

    A long term secular trend vs. a bunch of short term base hits?

    So first you need to define acceptance criteria before you begin ranking.

    Remember, we are the clear thinkers, rather than rhetoricians, here.

    , @Jim Don Bob
    Then why aren't you over there instead of hectoring us here?
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  141. guest says:
    @Svigor
    1. Fire every Hussein-era hire in the entire security apparatus, starting at the top. Replace them with military intelligence people, non-intel-related FBI employees, etc.
    2. After giving the new hires a few months to get up to speed, fire every pre-Hussein-era hire in the entire Security apparatus, starting at the top. Replace them with military intelligence people, non-intel-related FBI employees, etc.
    3. Begin targeted replacement of contractors in the security apparatus, starting with the most problematic. Replace them, where necessary, with new ones.

    There will be critics who say that this will reduce the efficacy of our security apparatus, but I say that given the nature of our current security apparatus, reducing its efficacy would be a good thing.

    I’m shocked, but Charles Krauthammer doesn’t seem to like the term “deep state” either (see link below).
     
    It's a short walk from "deep state" to "nation within a nation."

    Imperium in imperio? (I don’t have anything to add; I just like that phrase.)

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  142. eD says:
    @Travis
    in addition why do we have a department of Homeland Security ? The Department of Defense should cover everything the department of Homeland Security does. it is redundant to have 2 departments with the sole aim of defending the United States.

    “in addition why do we have a department of Homeland Security ?”

    First, people keep getting confused about how these departments were organized. Homeland Security didn’t spring out of the ground in 2002. Its a collection of agencies that existed beforehand in other departments, none of which had anything to do with the military.

    Second, its standard in other countries to have a department essentially in charge of the police, usually called the Home Department or the Interior Department, and a second department in charge of the military. The natural name for DHS, the Department of the Interior, was already taken by an unrelated cabinet department.

    That said, there is a serious constitutional issue with DHS in that policing is supposed to be a state, not a federal, matter. But as with other departments of which this can be said, that bridge had been crossed a long time ago when the component parts of DHS were created. And a good deal of DHS, such as the Coast Guard, Customs, and immigration control, would exist even if strict separation of federal and state powers were maintained. The surveillance stuff is associated with lots of independent agencies, not DHS.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    In most countries, the Interior Ministry isn't the park rangers, it's The Crackdown.

    The Soviet Interior Ministry had a 200,000 man military that was intended to be strong enough to defeat any attempt at a military coup against the Communist Party in a civil war.
    , @Autochthon
    I guess my point earlier is that DHS and its constituent agencies (ICE, Coast Guard in peace time, etc.) can exist as such, but the foreign intelligence stuff should be under DOD; some would say this cripples DHS' ability to monitor internal threats, but those powers ahould be extemely limited as a matter of fundamental, constitutional rights.

    Now, the kicker is this requires not giving away the store to foreigners via mass immivasion, green cards like candy, refugee re$ettlement, etc. – you keep the bad guys out and let the military run roughshod over rights citizens would have, and who cares? Not me! But I don't like living under Big Brother as a price I must pay so Intel can import Paki helots, Big Ag can privatise profits and socialise costs by paying Paco & Taco $1.00 per hour, etc.
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  143. guest says:
    @Stan Adams
    Mark Felt wasn't happy about being named after a fictional vagina.

    Deep Throat was big in '72 ... Basic Instinct was a cultural phenomenon in 1992.

    There was a brief period in the early-to-mid-'90s when "erotic thrillers" were all the rage in Hollywood. The genre gained prominence in the '80s with Body Heat, Blue Velvet, 9 1/2 Weeks, and Fatal Attraction, but reached its tacky apex around the time that Clinton took office.

    This cinematic flowering led to such unforgettable flicks as:

    * Sliver, in which Sharon Stone keeps her legs closed and Billy Baldwin bares his rump not once but several times;
    * Body of Evidence, starring Madonna as a whore on trial for S&Ming a man to death and Willem Dafoe as her well-endowed lawyer; and
    * Boxing Helena, directed by Jessica Lynch, in which Mama's-boy Julian Sands wins nasty-bitch Sherilyn Fenn's love by kidnapping her and chopping off her legs and arms; she rewards him by coaching him in the art of lovemaking

    All three of these movies were among the most-hyped releases of 1993; all three of them flopped.

    (I like Enigma, and I like bad movies, so I have something of an appreciation for Sliver and Boxing Helena.)

    The genre breathed its last in the fall of 1995, when two Joe Eszterhas*-scripted films (Showgirls and Jade**) died at the box office within weeks of each other.

    This was around the time that O.J. Simpson was acquitted. That whole spectacle was yet another example of the weirdness permeating the pop-culture scene in the '90s. The trial's shameful ending signified that black men had come a long way, baby - after centuries of struggle, they could finally get away with murdering white women (and Jewish men) in cold blood.

    *Eszterhas wrote Basic Instinct and Sliver, as well. The latter was adapted from an Ira Levin novel.

    **Jade was one of the flops that David Caruso made after leaving NYPD Blue. Caruso's example - high-flying TV star quits hit show after one year, only to watch movie career crash and burn - inspired George Clooney to stay on ER a lot longer than he might have. Eszterhas claims that William Friedkin, the director, totally rewrote his script.

    My favorite was Kill Me Again, with Mr. and Mrs. Val Kilmer. There’s a hilariously stupid part in which they’re staging a murder scene in a seedy motel, and they get all hot and bothered while he’s pouring blood all over the room. What is it with Hollywood mixing blood and sex? Yuck.

    The Basic Instinct subgenre in particular is dead, but there’s still mainstream erotica around. 50 Shades of Grey, for instance, which is probably more explicit than any you mention. It gives women the tinglies, but doesn’t do much for menfolk. No mystery, no real violence, no gore. Just a marginally attractive girl to see. (That came from Melanie Griffith and Don Johnson?)

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    I've heard that Kill Me Again was pretty good (I've never seen it). The Dahl Brothers also made two other good movies in that neo-noir genre: Red Rock West and The Last Seduction.
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  144. This reminds me of David French whining about the use of ‘cuckservative’. And the whore Stephen Colbert, tool of the money-men. And especially that moron John Oliver. Oliver is a pathetic example of the degree to which a leftist Brit will rent himself out to serve the interests of the wealthy.

    You gotta love the Whigs for much of what they did, but, unfortunately, the Tories were right about too much to excuse Oliver. Send the cuck Oliver, (heir to Wormtongue and Wormtail) back to serve his master, Lord Sauron, in his homeland. And ask Oliver to employ that cucking cuckservative French as his personal secretary.

    Colbert should be drawn and quartered. On TV.

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  145. guest says:
    @Larsen Halleck
    Left unsaid:

    Why is nobody addressing how THE NEW YORK TIMES is defending the honor of the CIA?

    Didn't liberals used to hate the CIA?

    Didn’t liberals used to hate bombing innocent children in the Middle East? Didn’t liberals used to stand up for the working man? Didn’t liberals used to do anything but find perversions to make into new identity groups and force us to love them like our own mothers (if we’re allowed to love our mothers; are biological families still PC?)

    This is gang warfare, not the Consistency Olympics.

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  146. @Autochthon
    Oh, I dunno: Wild Things was released in 1998 and did okay (albeit mostly on box-office receipts from horny male teenagers...). I agree the genre is bilious, with one exception (from far before its peak):

    Body of Evidence (1993) was indeed rancid, but Lawrence Kasdan's superb Body Heat (1981) is so sophisticated I remember its plot was used to illustrate some concepts in the casebook for my class on Wills, Trusts, & Estates many years later.

    http://web.archive.org/web/19981202213403/http://www.usfca.edu/pj/articles/BodyHeat.htm

    Like Edmund’s first will, the phony second will divides the loot 50-50 between Matty and Heather, but the bequest to Heather in the second will is deliberately drafted so as to violate the rule against perpetuities. As a result the bequest to Heather in the second will is invalid. Since Matty is the sole intestate heir, she takes the entire estate.

    But what was the perpetuities problem in the second will? We’re not told exactly, but presumably the trust for Heather included a contingent remainder, where the contingency could not vest during the period of lives-in-being-plus-21-years. Under the traditional version of the rule against perpetuities, the presence of such a contingency (however unlikely to materialize) invalidates the gift (unless the will contained a “savings clause” which obviously it didn’t).

    Trouble is, before the film was shot, Florida had abolished this form of the rule against perpetuities. Instead it took a wait-and-see approach, under which the gift remains valid unless and until the interest actually fails to vest within the perpetuities period. Thus under the Florida rule, the second will was entirely valid and Heather gets half. How could the film makers have made such an error?

    My colleague, perpetuities guru Jesse Dukeminier, tracked down the technical adviser to the movie. It seems that the film was originally set in New Jersey which at the time followed the traditional rule against perpetuities. Because of a Teamster’s strike in the New York-New Jersey area, the movie was moved to Florida and the story rewritten to occur there. But nobody took into account that Florida’s rule is different from New Jersey’s.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Trouble is, before the film was shot, Florida had abolished this form of the rule against perpetuities.

    Also, air conditioning had been invented.

    Still, quite a movie.

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  147. @Jack Hanson
    Alex Jones has been more correct than Sailer in the last year.

    LMAO

    Yeah, right.

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  148. @eD
    "in addition why do we have a department of Homeland Security ?"

    First, people keep getting confused about how these departments were organized. Homeland Security didn't spring out of the ground in 2002. Its a collection of agencies that existed beforehand in other departments, none of which had anything to do with the military.

    Second, its standard in other countries to have a department essentially in charge of the police, usually called the Home Department or the Interior Department, and a second department in charge of the military. The natural name for DHS, the Department of the Interior, was already taken by an unrelated cabinet department.

    That said, there is a serious constitutional issue with DHS in that policing is supposed to be a state, not a federal, matter. But as with other departments of which this can be said, that bridge had been crossed a long time ago when the component parts of DHS were created. And a good deal of DHS, such as the Coast Guard, Customs, and immigration control, would exist even if strict separation of federal and state powers were maintained. The surveillance stuff is associated with lots of independent agencies, not DHS.

    In most countries, the Interior Ministry isn’t the park rangers, it’s The Crackdown.

    The Soviet Interior Ministry had a 200,000 man military that was intended to be strong enough to defeat any attempt at a military coup against the Communist Party in a civil war.

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  149. Lugash says:
    @PV van der Byl
    One would think, with all that monitoring ability, the NSA and CIA could prevent wikileaks from receiving gigabytes of their most sensitive information.

    Perhaps, even, apprehend some of the miscreants.

    The Deep State wasn’t watching its own house. It’s gotten too large and sloppy due to outsourcing. tPost-Snowden they’ve started intense targeting of its own employees with the ‘Insider Threat Program’. That’s probably what got Hal Martin.

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  150. @Stan Adams
    http://web.archive.org/web/19981202213403/http://www.usfca.edu/pj/articles/BodyHeat.htm

    Like Edmund's first will, the phony second will divides the loot 50-50 between Matty and Heather, but the bequest to Heather in the second will is deliberately drafted so as to violate the rule against perpetuities. As a result the bequest to Heather in the second will is invalid. Since Matty is the sole intestate heir, she takes the entire estate.

    But what was the perpetuities problem in the second will? We're not told exactly, but presumably the trust for Heather included a contingent remainder, where the contingency could not vest during the period of lives-in-being-plus-21-years. Under the traditional version of the rule against perpetuities, the presence of such a contingency (however unlikely to materialize) invalidates the gift (unless the will contained a "savings clause" which obviously it didn't).

    Trouble is, before the film was shot, Florida had abolished this form of the rule against perpetuities. Instead it took a wait-and-see approach, under which the gift remains valid unless and until the interest actually fails to vest within the perpetuities period. Thus under the Florida rule, the second will was entirely valid and Heather gets half. How could the film makers have made such an error?

    My colleague, perpetuities guru Jesse Dukeminier, tracked down the technical adviser to the movie. It seems that the film was originally set in New Jersey which at the time followed the traditional rule against perpetuities. Because of a Teamster's strike in the New York-New Jersey area, the movie was moved to Florida and the story rewritten to occur there. But nobody took into account that Florida's rule is different from New Jersey's.

    Trouble is, before the film was shot, Florida had abolished this form of the rule against perpetuities.

    Also, air conditioning had been invented.

    Still, quite a movie.

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    • Replies: @Stan Adams

    Also, air conditioning had been invented.
     
    True, that.

    Body Heat was shot in and around Sarasota in the winter of 1981. Ironically, the area was gripped by record-cold temperatures at the time.

    Now, a cold winter in Sarasota is not the same as a cold winter in, say, Buffalo, but the near-freezing temperatures did make shooting nude scenes somewhat uncomfortable for the actors. William Hurt and Kathleen Turner had to put ice cubes in their mouths to keep their breath from showing on film.

    Interestingly, Christopher Reeve turned down the role of Ned, saying that he didn't want to play a sleazy lawyer. Reeve, then desperate to gain credibility as a serious actor, chose instead to star in Monsignor (1982), in which he played a crooked priest.

    Monsignor, for those who are not aficionados of subpar cinema, is a long-forgotten cinematic turd with one interesting feature: a Razzie-nominated-but-not-entirely-unworthy score by John Williams. (Yes, that John Williams.) It was produced by Frank Yablans, who previously had produced Mommie Dearest.

    Mommie Dearest debuted in theaters on September 25, 1981 - one week after Body Heat.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    True dat. I saw Body Heat when it first came out, and it held up well when I saw it again recently.
    It is William Hurt's best movie and Kathleen Turner!!! Yowsa!
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  151. @guest
    I didn't read the article, and don't want to, but I wonder, did they go the fascism route? If not, it's only a matter of time. I don't mean conspiracy theories about the Joos. I mean the "ominously parallels" between the "drain the swamp" ideology of Team Trump and thinkers with connections to fascism, like Gaetano Mosca ( The Ruling Class), Robert Michels (Political Parties), and Vilfredo Pareto (Rise and Fall of the Elites). Team Trump has already vocalized heretical knowledge of the forbidden texts of Julius Evola, not to mention the downright Hitlerian music of one Giacomo Puccini.

    It is well-known--in my brain as I make it up on the fly--that these evil right-wing (though possibly socialist, but what does that matter? We all know who national socialists were), mostly Italian or Italian-y (Michels was a German, as you can tell by his name, who I think ended up in Italy) but who for convenience's sake we'll call Nazis, influenced the Paranoid Style in American Politics. The kind which found popularity in the discredited (by the left-wing MSM and educational system) John Birch/Joe McCarthy supposedly anti-communist but really anti-midcentury consensus liberalism. (That's what they'd say, anyway.)

    When the New Left, for instance, was paranoid about Cointelpro or Richard Nixon, it was because those forces were fascist, so it was okay. Trump is a fascist, so he's not allowed to be paranoid, ipso facto. In fact, he not allowed to do anything, and should go home and let NYT-approved people take over. Loyal functionaries in the federal bureaucracy and especially the CIA should handle that if he doesn't leave voluntarily. Not that the public should be informed, because they can't handle the truth. Better it be done in secret so we can maintain the illusion of democracy.

    But that wouldn't be the Deep State at work, or anything. What are you, a fascist Bircher, McCarthyite, Nixonian, Trumpster?

    What are you, a fascist Bircher, McCarthyite, Nixonian, Trumpster?

    If you allow separation of fascist and Bircher, then 4/5, otherwise 3/4.

    Nixon was an idiot, but sometimes a smart politician. The rest of the time he thought implementing the Left’s agenda would inoculate him from the witchhunts of the moonbats. He could not have been more wrong – and he threw the country under the bus to enhance his standing.

    No doubt LBJ has expressed his admiration for Nixon, as both swim about the Lake.

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    • Replies: @guest
    "to enhance his standing"

    That's the stupidest part. His standing is in the toilet. He didn't even get one of those generation-later reevaluations. Eisenhower, for instance, went way, way up, from dopey, do-nothing golfer to most brilliantest Cold Warrior and enemy of vested interests. Nixon is still the sweaty climber with five o'clock shadow and an enemies list. He got nothing in return for his middle of the roadism.*

    They do allow him opening China. That's the one thing. Because look how much money some of us made off it.

    *He did try, and fail, to frontally attack the bureaucracy by reasserting executive control of the executive branch. That's one big reason they sacked him. At least that wasn't accommodationist.
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  152. Mr. Anon says:
    @PV van der Byl
    Yes, they could collect all that. But, they couldn't possibly process it all except in the crudest manner.

    Yes, they could collect all that. But, they couldn’t possibly process it all except in the crudest manner.

    They don’t have to process it for everybody. For most people they just keep it on ice against the possibility that that anyone becomes a someone. But, to surveil, in detail, a few thousand of the most important and influential people in the country? That is certainly within thier ability

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    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    I agree that much is within their capability.

    The people who really need to avoid posting on iSteve, even under pseudonyms, are those who aspire to elective or appointive office.
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  153. Boomstick says:
    @anon
    yeah - Obama's way too lazy to be anything but a figurehead - Jarret is probably there to provide a backbone

    i can see Obama having a mega sulk about it though - he wanted to be off playing golf in the sun and he's effectively under house arrest by the neocon CIA

    i can imagine Michelle being pretty mad about it too

    implosions seem likely

    Jarrett moving in with Obama is just weird, which makes me wonder why it happened. Maybe she feared being surveilled by industrial strength entities. Obama probably has Secret Service protection, both physically and electronically. That raises the bar for doing either legal or illegal surveillance.

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    • Replies: @anon

    Jarrett moving in with Obama is just weird, which makes me wonder why it happened.
     
    Yeah it is. I don't believe for a second Obama wants to be a figurehead and Michelle even less. He wants to be golfing in Hawaii and they both prob want to separate quietly so he can a boyfriend without having to smuggle male prostitutes into the WH.

    I think she was put there *because* he doesn't want to do it. I think she's in there with a riding crop.

    I predict a knock down fight between her and Michelle - cue one of them going to hospital after a "fall".
    , @Jim Don Bob
    Wonder what Michelle thinks about VJ moving in? The house ain't that big.
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  154. @Frau Katze
    Whatever you call it, Mark Felt's actions were not driven by ideology but by the fact he was passed over for FBI head by Nixon.

    So Nixon had to pay. Fortunately for Felt, he had a way of hitting back at Nixon. Nixon's pre-election antics were enough to require him to step down.

    The opposition to Trump, what form is it taking? Well, if it's like the case of Mark Felt, we won't know for decades.

    It could be ideological or personal, but most important: does Trump have a weak point as Nixon did?

    Trump’s weak point is his children. If one of them turns out to be weak or corrupt, Trump may look the other way long enough to be complicit. Or be open to blackmail where he never would as an individual.

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    • Replies: @guest
    That happened to FDR. But nobody cared, because he was FDR.
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  155. @george
    "the same people marrying each other"

    There may be more of an aristocracy in the US than you think. Children of government officials entering government. From the military to local police and school systems. One reason for very early retirement of government workers might be so that their children can find jobs easily.

    One reason for very early retirement of government workers might be so that their children can find jobs easily.

    Or the fact that they have a cushy pension – I doubt they think beyond their own life. If they did, they wouldn’t work so hard to turn American into a 3rd-world cesspool.

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  156. Boomstick says:
    @PV van der Byl
    One would think, with all that monitoring ability, the NSA and CIA could prevent wikileaks from receiving gigabytes of their most sensitive information.

    Perhaps, even, apprehend some of the miscreants.

    My takeaway is that the CIA is penetrated six ways to Sunday. It’s just easier to spot now, because every few years one of them dumps to wikileaks. Before that they were selling to the KGB, the Chinese, the North Koreans, the Cubans, and Grand Fenwick.

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    • Agree: PV van der Byl
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  157. @Svigor
    1. Fire every Hussein-era hire in the entire security apparatus, starting at the top. Replace them with military intelligence people, non-intel-related FBI employees, etc.
    2. After giving the new hires a few months to get up to speed, fire every pre-Hussein-era hire in the entire Security apparatus, starting at the top. Replace them with military intelligence people, non-intel-related FBI employees, etc.
    3. Begin targeted replacement of contractors in the security apparatus, starting with the most problematic. Replace them, where necessary, with new ones.

    There will be critics who say that this will reduce the efficacy of our security apparatus, but I say that given the nature of our current security apparatus, reducing its efficacy would be a good thing.

    I’m shocked, but Charles Krauthammer doesn’t seem to like the term “deep state” either (see link below).
     
    It's a short walk from "deep state" to "nation within a nation."

    Charles Krauthammer, neocon of the NeoCons. worked for the socialist Mondale. Thinks a rich nation like the USA should make health care a right and an entitlement. But doesn’t like the term deep state – even though the Deep State has been on the Front Page from the election of Trump until now.

    Krauthammer is not an advocate for the American people. But he has a good gig – getting paid to the ‘conservative’ conscience of the Fox News viewers. And Trump likes him! What is Trump thinking?

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    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Charles Erwin Wilson:

    What is Trump thinking? Apparently not much.

    In his nomination/election campaign there were only two things that Trump was consistent about: reaching a peaceful arrangement/agreement with Russia and nominating good Supreme Court Justices. He's now reneging on the first; it remains to be seen how his SCOTUS nominations/appointments turn out.
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  158. Mr. Anon says:
    @Autochthon
    Oh, I dunno: Wild Things was released in 1998 and did okay (albeit mostly on box-office receipts from horny male teenagers...). I agree the genre is bilious, with one exception (from far before its peak):

    Body of Evidence (1993) was indeed rancid, but Lawrence Kasdan's superb Body Heat (1981) is so sophisticated I remember its plot was used to illustrate some concepts in the casebook for my class on Wills, Trusts, & Estates many years later.

    Oh, I dunno: Wild Things was released in 1998 and did okay (albeit mostly on box-office receipts from horny male teenagers…).

    Wild Things was trash. Tawdry, lurid trash.

    It was great!

    I was struck by the fact that Denise Richards’ very first line in that movie was “F**k off!” It set the tone for the whole movie. And what I found especially good was the way they cast Kevin Bacon (playing against type) as the upright, decent cop, instead of the usual slimy sleeze-bag character he typically plays. And then………….he turns out to be a slimy sleezebag.

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    • Replies: @guest
    They cast the role of Kevin Bacon's penis well, too.

    By the way, I could never understand why Bill Murray was in that movie.
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  159. @Steve Sailer
    Trouble is, before the film was shot, Florida had abolished this form of the rule against perpetuities.

    Also, air conditioning had been invented.

    Still, quite a movie.

    Also, air conditioning had been invented.

    True, that.

    Body Heat was shot in and around Sarasota in the winter of 1981. Ironically, the area was gripped by record-cold temperatures at the time.

    Now, a cold winter in Sarasota is not the same as a cold winter in, say, Buffalo, but the near-freezing temperatures did make shooting nude scenes somewhat uncomfortable for the actors. William Hurt and Kathleen Turner had to put ice cubes in their mouths to keep their breath from showing on film.

    Interestingly, Christopher Reeve turned down the role of Ned, saying that he didn’t want to play a sleazy lawyer. Reeve, then desperate to gain credibility as a serious actor, chose instead to star in Monsignor (1982), in which he played a crooked priest.

    Monsignor, for those who are not aficionados of subpar cinema, is a long-forgotten cinematic turd with one interesting feature: a Razzie-nominated-but-not-entirely-unworthy score by John Williams. (Yes, that John Williams.) It was produced by Frank Yablans, who previously had produced Mommie Dearest.

    Mommie Dearest debuted in theaters on September 25, 1981 – one week after Body Heat.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Yep; the legendary Jesse Dukeminier was indeed my casebook's author.

    It's fun diversions like these that make Steve's site not just a blog or forum, but a true community.

    I really wish Kasdan had been more involved with the later waves of Star Wars films; I'm more and more convinced his – as much or more than Lucas' – was the genius that made the first three (or, at least, the second two...) so great.
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  160. Maj. Kong says:
    @Intelligent Dasein
    What is the nation? The president with the people at his back is the nation. The Deep State is a parasite and a usurper. If we stand with Trump we can defeat this thing.

    The Wikileaks Vault 7 dump might just be the most profound case of "Trump's Luck" ever. Truly a 9.8 on the Richter Scale of Trump-luckitude. First he angrily denounces the fact that he was wiretapped by Obama; then the media mocks him for saying so; and now Wikileaks reveals that the CIA has been bugging everyone to within an inch of their life.

    We also now know why the Deep State has been pushing the nonsensical "Russia hacked the election" meme. It's because they hacked the election with Russian malware in order to deliberately leave false fingerprints behind, and they just wanted to make sure everybody noticed. It's all out in the open now. Goodbye, Deep State.

    (On a side note, now I also know why my computer runs slower and uses up memory space for no identifiable reason. It's acting as a proxy server for the CIA.)

    The allegation that Russia hacked the election results is prolefeed.

    The actual allegations seem to be:

    -Trump owes Russian banks a substantial sum
    -Trump covered up his taxes for that reason
    -Trump isn’t a billionaire
    -Trump had a deal for debt forgiveness that involved recognizing Crimea
    -Trump promised no retaliation in exchange for Russia hacking the DNC

    As far as I know, there isn’t much evidence for any of these claims. Believing even one of them assumes that Putin is a reckless gambler who just pulled off the greatest upset in power politics since Louis XVI backed us in the Revolution. But yet he couldn’t cover his tracks from the NYT and WaPo.

    It is much easier to cut through the Gordian knot to see the real agenda:

    The permanent political class wants to overthrow Putin for the following reasons:

    -Putin has resisted Cultural Marxism
    -Putin obstructed the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood
    -Putin supports Iran as a counterbalance to US hegemony
    -Jewish tribal hate towards the Russian Orthodox

    Tayip Erdogan is a far bigger threat to us than Putin.

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  161. @neutral

    what percentage of the U.S. population could they really monitor?
     
    As Snowden revealed everything about everyone is being stored in that huge building in Utah. By everything I mean EVERYTHING, every email, every url you went to, every online transaction, every online chat, every comment your wrote has been recorded and permanently stored. This means they can monitor everyone, that does not mean they are focusing on every individual there is at the same time, but if someone needs to be singled out then they can do it.

    Also, as technology improves I can see no technical hurdles where systems are created where every person on the planet is spied on in real time 24/7, the system would behave like a real human spying on you, but only more efficient. The only hurdle is the political one, saying "it cannot be done practically" is absolutely not the correct argument to make, it can be done and if nobody stops it, it will be done.

    Like a lot of large corpirations, governmet has massive capacity to store data.

    The question is how many people can they single out. There are an awful lot of bottlenecks in the system.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    This already means they can blackmail all important people who have anything to hide. They also have a lot of information on anyone potentially entering politics. Does that still not bother you?
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  162. Mr. Anon says:
    @guest
    My favorite was Kill Me Again, with Mr. and Mrs. Val Kilmer. There's a hilariously stupid part in which they're staging a murder scene in a seedy motel, and they get all hot and bothered while he's pouring blood all over the room. What is it with Hollywood mixing blood and sex? Yuck.

    The Basic Instinct subgenre in particular is dead, but there's still mainstream erotica around. 50 Shades of Grey, for instance, which is probably more explicit than any you mention. It gives women the tinglies, but doesn't do much for menfolk. No mystery, no real violence, no gore. Just a marginally attractive girl to see. (That came from Melanie Griffith and Don Johnson?)

    I’ve heard that Kill Me Again was pretty good (I’ve never seen it). The Dahl Brothers also made two other good movies in that neo-noir genre: Red Rock West and The Last Seduction.

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  163. Maj. Kong says:
    @guest
    To understand why the CIA and other agencies came into existence, you can't look at it rationally. You have to dig into the history. Then it comes down to timing, what was needed (or was thought to be needed) when, "mission creep," public political games we no longer remember, outside pressures (the other guys' CIA), the special needs someone thought only the CIA could deliver upon (you know, establishing ties to all the worst people in the world, wasting money, murdering people), personalities (Truman trusted this guy instead of that to give him information at such and such a time, or whatever), and factional struggles.

    But those last two are "conspiracy theory" territory. No, no, decisions aren't made by actual people with actual loyalties to things other than Truth, Justice and the American Blah. They're made by experts with slide rules, or something.

    The CIA came into existence because the US and the UK could no longer rely in MI6 to carry out the work of global subversion by itself. The British were broke after WWII, we were not.

    The people that make up the FBI aim to win criminal convictions, very by-the-book. They are not at all equipped to act as foreign subversives or as a secret police. That’s why we have both the CIA and the SPLC.

    The USSR made this much easier to identify because all of this was centralized in the KGB, which remained organized using military ranks.

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  164. Kunio-kun says:

    Trump is Hitler. Trump is Nixon. Who’s Trump gonna be next???

    Trump should claim that the Russians are behind it all.

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  165. Maj. Kong says:
    @Buck Turgidson
    As an everyday citizen and boring working schlub, my observation is that the security apparatus in our country is excessive and out of control. Is my government surveilling my phone calls and my emails? I guess the answer is "Duh do you think?" My late grandparents would have been shocked at the invasion of privacy and wondered WTH happened to their country. Washington DC feels like an armed camp. There are cameras on nearly every damned street corner. I don't swallow the "if you're not guilty of anything you shouldn't care." We need to vigorously deport illegals and stop immigration for a short while -- say 50 years -- to ensure that only citizens are here and that we don't have illegals floating around in separate, ethnic communities doing who knows what. Do we really live in "a free country" (hate that phrase) if we are being filmed and watched by surveillance cameras? Why all the cameras? Seems to me like something out of the old Soviet Union and that would have brought a tear of joy to Stalin's eye.

    The security apparatus is a natural reaction to multiculturalism and the resultant political polarization. Large numbers of people in this country have no real ties of loyalty both to the state and their fellow citizens. Had the Democrats stolen the election, I had no intention of recognizing H. Clinton as the legitimate President. And I was quite prepared to do my own part to greatly increase the ethnoreligious tensions, via the instigation of a right-wing BDS movement.

    Even an immigration moratorium of that length would not be enough. We need to deport a significant number of citizens-on-paper-only (subversives) from this country, or we need to explore a civil divorce of the states.

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  166. Eagle Eye says:
    @Travis
    I suspect it will eventually be confirmed that the FBI applied for a warrant from the foreign intelligence surveillance (FISA) court over the summer in order to monitor four members of the Trump team suspected of irregular contacts with Russian officials. The FISA court turned down the application asking FBI counter-intelligence investigators to narrow its focus. According to one report, the FBI was finally granted a warrant in October.

    The media is ignoring the FISA request because it damages the story, if the Russians were working with Trump why did the courts reject the warrant to tap the lines of Trumps team members ? Lack of evidence suggests the Russia reports are not backed by any hard evidence...If the FBI was eventually granted the warrants to tap the phones it makes the Obama administration look sinister, wire tapping the campaign of the GOP candidate...which is much worse than anything Nixon did.

    which is much worse than anything Nixon did.

    Nixon had to go because he ended a lucrative and interesting war in Vietnam.

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  167. Dan Hayes says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson
    Charles Krauthammer, neocon of the NeoCons. worked for the socialist Mondale. Thinks a rich nation like the USA should make health care a right and an entitlement. But doesn't like the term deep state - even though the Deep State has been on the Front Page from the election of Trump until now.

    Krauthammer is not an advocate for the American people. But he has a good gig - getting paid to the 'conservative' conscience of the Fox News viewers. And Trump likes him! What is Trump thinking?

    Charles Erwin Wilson:

    What is Trump thinking? Apparently not much.

    In his nomination/election campaign there were only two things that Trump was consistent about: reaching a peaceful arrangement/agreement with Russia and nominating good Supreme Court Justices. He’s now reneging on the first; it remains to be seen how his SCOTUS nominations/appointments turn out.

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  168. @Whiskey
    Obama is the first President ever to both stick around in DC, and be part of an overt effort to overthrow the Presidency of his successor from another Party. The only other partial example is TR vs. Taft, but TR did not stay in DC and Taft was his hand-picked successor.

    Nor is it clear what Obama's endgame is, whereas TR had a clear one -- re-elect himself instead of Taft in the next election. Remove Trump and Pence and what ... install Oprah via a House vote agreed upon by Paul Ryan? Bob Iger of Disney? Zuck? George Clooney? All have been mooted about as potential Presidents.

    Rather than Deep State I prefer Murray's SuperZips. Because the latter describes the terrible insularity of the same people marrying each other, being each other's cronies, living in about five zip codes, going to the same five schools, and living in the same three urban zones.

    OMG, Oprah. About the only demos she wouldn’t command would be white & asian males over 120 IQ. And maybe some random trailer trash.

    It’s hers, if she wants it. Trump vs Oprah in 2020 would be more fun than I even expected to have in this life.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Trump would offer to dump Pence in return for Oprah joining his re-election ticket.
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  169. guest says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson

    What are you, a fascist Bircher, McCarthyite, Nixonian, Trumpster?
     
    If you allow separation of fascist and Bircher, then 4/5, otherwise 3/4.

    Nixon was an idiot, but sometimes a smart politician. The rest of the time he thought implementing the Left's agenda would inoculate him from the witchhunts of the moonbats. He could not have been more wrong - and he threw the country under the bus to enhance his standing.

    No doubt LBJ has expressed his admiration for Nixon, as both swim about the Lake.

    “to enhance his standing”

    That’s the stupidest part. His standing is in the toilet. He didn’t even get one of those generation-later reevaluations. Eisenhower, for instance, went way, way up, from dopey, do-nothing golfer to most brilliantest Cold Warrior and enemy of vested interests. Nixon is still the sweaty climber with five o’clock shadow and an enemies list. He got nothing in return for his middle of the roadism.*

    They do allow him opening China. That’s the one thing. Because look how much money some of us made off it.

    *He did try, and fail, to frontally attack the bureaucracy by reasserting executive control of the executive branch. That’s one big reason they sacked him. At least that wasn’t accommodationist.

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  170. guest says:
    @Chief Seattle
    Trump's weak point is his children. If one of them turns out to be weak or corrupt, Trump may look the other way long enough to be complicit. Or be open to blackmail where he never would as an individual.

    That happened to FDR. But nobody cared, because he was FDR.

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  171. guest says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Oh, I dunno: Wild Things was released in 1998 and did okay (albeit mostly on box-office receipts from horny male teenagers…).
     
    Wild Things was trash. Tawdry, lurid trash.

    It was great!

    I was struck by the fact that Denise Richards' very first line in that movie was "F**k off!" It set the tone for the whole movie. And what I found especially good was the way they cast Kevin Bacon (playing against type) as the upright, decent cop, instead of the usual slimy sleeze-bag character he typically plays. And then.............he turns out to be a slimy sleezebag.

    They cast the role of Kevin Bacon’s penis well, too.

    By the way, I could never understand why Bill Murray was in that movie.

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  172. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    US, from big Britain to big Italy.

    From a nation built by people of trust to a nation divvied up by peoples of treason.

    Given the growing diversity and competing interests, everything will be seen as ‘treasonous’ by some group. Wasps, Jews, blacks, browns, yellows, Muslims, and etc all have different visions of what American should be. That means one man’s patriotism is another man’s treachery or treason.

    So, what was once considered Trust is now Treason. So, Trump’s nationalism and concern for working class is seen as ‘treason’ by some who even call for Deep State mafia-like coup or Military takeover. But to white patriots, globalists are the treasonous ones.
    To white citizenists, illegal immigration is treason. To illegals and their supporters, secure borders is ‘treason’ against Statue of Liberty.

    As common themes, bonds, and trust fall apart, the operative text of US will not be the Constitution of the Founders but Machiavelli’s THE PRINCE.

    Each group will have to learn the Art of the Mafia.

    It’s like Noodles schooling the Union leader on the Art of Power in diversifying America as ethnics take more power.

    https://youtu.be/4jAqn7YFMAs?t=2h23m36s

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  173. @Dan Hayes
    Lugash:

    Yes, he's a prime member of the Deep State - WASP Division. One example, at Yale he was a member of the prestigious secretive Book and Snake Society. The US Navy service via Yale NROTC is another tip off.

    For what little it’s worth, Book and Snake (along with Scroll and Key) was generally one of the cooler societies, and a more ‘considered’ choice than Bones, if not quite as illustrious. Illustrious, nefarious, let’s call the whole thing off. Nowadays they’re all so P.C. they’d make you puke.

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  174. anonguy says:
    @Jack Hanson
    Alex Jones has been more correct than Sailer in the last year.

    How do you measure correctness of predictions?

    A long term secular trend vs. a bunch of short term base hits?

    So first you need to define acceptance criteria before you begin ranking.

    Remember, we are the clear thinkers, rather than rhetoricians, here.

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    • Replies: @Ivy
    Scott Alexander at SlateStarCodex.com has periodic predictions accompanied with his estimates, along with recaps to assess performance. Interesting reading.
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  175. Dr. Doom says:

    Far be it from me to actually agree with the dying dinosaur media, but perhaps Deep State isn’t the right term.

    Maybe Mandarins would be a more correct and relevant term for them?

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  176. @Stan Adams

    Also, air conditioning had been invented.
     
    True, that.

    Body Heat was shot in and around Sarasota in the winter of 1981. Ironically, the area was gripped by record-cold temperatures at the time.

    Now, a cold winter in Sarasota is not the same as a cold winter in, say, Buffalo, but the near-freezing temperatures did make shooting nude scenes somewhat uncomfortable for the actors. William Hurt and Kathleen Turner had to put ice cubes in their mouths to keep their breath from showing on film.

    Interestingly, Christopher Reeve turned down the role of Ned, saying that he didn't want to play a sleazy lawyer. Reeve, then desperate to gain credibility as a serious actor, chose instead to star in Monsignor (1982), in which he played a crooked priest.

    Monsignor, for those who are not aficionados of subpar cinema, is a long-forgotten cinematic turd with one interesting feature: a Razzie-nominated-but-not-entirely-unworthy score by John Williams. (Yes, that John Williams.) It was produced by Frank Yablans, who previously had produced Mommie Dearest.

    Mommie Dearest debuted in theaters on September 25, 1981 - one week after Body Heat.

    Yep; the legendary Jesse Dukeminier was indeed my casebook’s author.

    It’s fun diversions like these that make Steve’s site not just a blog or forum, but a true community.

    I really wish Kasdan had been more involved with the later waves of Star Wars films; I’m more and more convinced his – as much or more than Lucas’ – was the genius that made the first three (or, at least, the second two…) so great.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman
    You didn't study under the great Sarajane Love by any chance, did you?
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  177. anonguy says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Maybe Trump's election has something to do with the end of secrecy? The guy who worked hardest to live his life in the spotlight gets elected President.

    Maybe Trump’s election has something to do with the end of secrecy? The guy who worked hardest to live his life in the spotlight gets elected President.

    Right. The control of informaton previously had lots of secrecy barriers in the mix, a regime which is breaking down before our eyes.

    Now it is the utter primacy of narrative, which indeed has been on the ascendancy since forever, but with the breakdown of secrecy, it is all narrative, all the way down, constructed from the endless smorgasbord of uncontrolled information/facts/data which are all objectively true under some objective microscopes, atoms of carbon based narrative life forms.

    Whoa, whatever, step back from the bong, dude….

    Anyhow, hence Trump, as you note, master of the narrative.

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  178. @Svigor
    How long before Big Media narrative becomes "Wikileaks and Russians in collusion to undermine American security apparatus to prop up Trump"?

    Read the NYT versions, and especially the ‘Readers’ Picks’ and ‘NYT Picks’ comments. They’re saying exactly what you describe.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/07/world/europe/wikileaks-cia-hacking.html

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  179. @Abe

    President Trump should clean house at the CIA and the other human intelligence government workers. President Trump should only trust the signals intelligence side of the national security state. And trust but verify with that crowd as well. FIRE all the non-technical bastards at the NSA and other electronic surveillance outfits that are leaking all the electronic stuff.
     
    Don't be like the cry-baby idiots at NYT, CNN, WaPO (aka Jeff Bezos's Totally Amazing Zine of Awesomeness).

    We need to keep shoving this truth into liberals' faces- Russians have an uncanny knack for intrigue (not to mention chess), and so why- if they hate Putin so much- are liberals and the Establishment so readily taking his bait? Trump is on the shortest leash of any modern President (and possibly any President ever). If there was any real chance of him being a Russian puppet, the neocon wing of the GOPe (pretty much the entire GOPe) would initiate impeachment proceedings in a heartbeat with Democrats in Congress trampling over each other to get on board.

    So wouldn't the canny Russian approach be to look like they helped Trump get in the White House (1 kiloton damage), let the Establishment work itself into a frenzy over the "hacking" allegations, which then leads to paralysis of the Executive as internal elements work to undermine Trump in the quixotic hopes he can be gotten rid of with enough leaks and scathing NYT editorials/SNL parodies (100 kiloton damage)? Which then provokes Trump and his supporters into purging the security apparatus of the United States, losing several generations of expertise (1 megaton damage)?

    I'm as mad as you about these efforts to discredit the President, but let's be adults here- the U.S. cannot afford a 1937 style 'housecleaning" of the CIA, FBI, and NSA.

    I’m as mad as you about these efforts to discredit the President, but let’s be adults here- the U.S. cannot afford a 1937 style ‘housecleaning” of the CIA, FBI, and NSA.

    I don’t think we can afford to think like that. Let’s not forget, terrorism is not an existential threat to the US, or is at least less of one than having entire categories of essential and unassailable bureaucrats.

    Like you are now, I wondered during the election why an ostensible attempt by Putin to undermine confidence in western democratic institutions was a rationale for the left to reject Trump.

    OT:

    I was just thinking how we’re in John Le Carre territority now when I thought of a name for Steve’s upcoming book:

    “Pinker, TaylorMade, Sailer, Spy”

    It encompasses most of iSteve’s subject matter: IQ, Jews, golf, autobiography, and Turkey.

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  180. @eD
    "in addition why do we have a department of Homeland Security ?"

    First, people keep getting confused about how these departments were organized. Homeland Security didn't spring out of the ground in 2002. Its a collection of agencies that existed beforehand in other departments, none of which had anything to do with the military.

    Second, its standard in other countries to have a department essentially in charge of the police, usually called the Home Department or the Interior Department, and a second department in charge of the military. The natural name for DHS, the Department of the Interior, was already taken by an unrelated cabinet department.

    That said, there is a serious constitutional issue with DHS in that policing is supposed to be a state, not a federal, matter. But as with other departments of which this can be said, that bridge had been crossed a long time ago when the component parts of DHS were created. And a good deal of DHS, such as the Coast Guard, Customs, and immigration control, would exist even if strict separation of federal and state powers were maintained. The surveillance stuff is associated with lots of independent agencies, not DHS.

    I guess my point earlier is that DHS and its constituent agencies (ICE, Coast Guard in peace time, etc.) can exist as such, but the foreign intelligence stuff should be under DOD; some would say this cripples DHS’ ability to monitor internal threats, but those powers ahould be extemely limited as a matter of fundamental, constitutional rights.

    Now, the kicker is this requires not giving away the store to foreigners via mass immivasion, green cards like candy, refugee re$ettlement, etc. – you keep the bad guys out and let the military run roughshod over rights citizens would have, and who cares? Not me! But I don’t like living under Big Brother as a price I must pay so Intel can import Paki helots, Big Ag can privatise profits and socialise costs by paying Paco & Taco $1.00 per hour, etc.

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  181. Olorin says:

    “Nixon shared a similar kind of distrust of the government and felt the government was out to get him at points,” Mr. Feaver added. “President Trump’s view seems to be more on the Nixon part of the spectrum, which is far from the Pakistan part.”

    This quote is like something Oliver Sacks would have inscribed from one of the neurologically damaged outliers under his observation.

    Where would one start unpacking “Mr. Feaver’s” metonymy (or is it sinecdoche? I get those NY burgs all mixed up) regarding “the” “government”?

    OTOH, if we take this Feavered assertion at face value, if “the” “government” which Nixon distrusted, and Trump does too, has Pakistan on its spectrum, that would certainly explain their reactions, hey?

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  182. phil says:
    @Larsen Halleck
    Left unsaid:

    Why is nobody addressing how THE NEW YORK TIMES is defending the honor of the CIA?

    Didn't liberals used to hate the CIA?

    The Alinskyites used to be on the Outside. Now they are on the Inside.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    That has been the case for at least 40 years, arguably nearly a century.

    There have been developments since.
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  183. G Pinfold says:
    @Frau Katze
    I thought Eisenhower was a Dutch name.

    Dutch = Deutsche. The Dutch were the Germans who migrated towards the Atlantic.
    The guilt-ridden Hollanders today know it. Why do you think they are such cucks?

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  184. @whorefinder
    Dude, have you not heard of the Utah Data Center:

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Utah_Data_Center

    So the idea that they can't store information on every single American simultaneously is wrong.

    What's more, as Wikileaks and Snowden keep revealing, the feds are about 5-10 years ahead of where everyone thinks they are in terms of surveillance. You think they already haven't figured out ways to process these huge volumes of information that we don't know about yet?

    I seriously don't want to sound like some caricature of Alex Jones, but wake up sheeple!

    Clearly, the Utah Data Center is no secret.

    It contains many dots.

    It doesn’t necessarily follow that the dots will be connected, however. The NSA has always had massive data storage capacity.

    Edward Snowden spent years commenting on Ars Technica in a manner strongly suggesting he would be a security risk to the NSA.

    For some reason, this went unnoticed until he moved to Russia.

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  185. @Mr. Anon

    Yes, they could collect all that. But, they couldn’t possibly process it all except in the crudest manner.
     
    They don't have to process it for everybody. For most people they just keep it on ice against the possibility that that anyone becomes a someone. But, to surveil, in detail, a few thousand of the most important and influential people in the country? That is certainly within thier ability

    I agree that much is within their capability.

    The people who really need to avoid posting on iSteve, even under pseudonyms, are those who aspire to elective or appointive office.

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  186. @whorefinder

    There was a brief period in the early-to-mid-’90s when “erotic thrillers” were all the rage in Hollywood. The genre gained prominence in the ’80s with Body Heat, Blue Velvet, 9 1/2 Weeks, and Fatal Attraction, but reached its tacky apex around the time that Clinton took office.
     
    Yeah, the Clinton sex dramas really made Hollywood pull back on the erotic thrillers, and turn back to making movies like The American President a defense of Bill if Bill were from an alternate dimension. That, and the "thriller" film was getting to be tired by the end of the 1990s.

    Of course, the "thriller" films were a 1990s cover story, a convenient tag when you didn't want to call your movie what it was---usually an action or horror film. For example, Silence of the Lambs was the original blockbuster "thriller" when it was really a horror film mixed with a crime caper, or, perhaps, a movie about a woman struggling with her career and her attraction to dark psychotic men, similar to how Arrival was really a movie for women about breaking up.

    Many adult-oriented action movies in the 1990s were called "thrillers", probably to try to make sure both sexes came to the theater. For example, Point of No Return and The Pelican Brief and The Fugitive were call marketed as thrillers. The Pierce Brosnan-James Bond films of the period were shot in thriller format.

    inspired George Clooney to stay on ER a lot longer than he might have.

     

    Probably a good idea, as George's early movie role choices of The Peacemaker and Batman & Robin showed he needed a better script reader and better instincts about directors.

    For example, Point of No Return and The Pelican Brief and The Fugitive were call marketed as thrillers. The Pierce Brosnan-James Bond films of the period were shot in thriller format.

    Could the crime/action film Heat (1995) also be classified as a thriller? Unlike The Fugitive there were actual romantic sub-plots (Val Kilmer-Ashley Judd; Robert DeNiro-Amy Brenneman) that could pull in the ladies for a couples night out at the movies. The Fugitive sort of lacked that, although the implied deep love between Harrison Ford and Sela Ward, only briefly portrayed in flashback, was built in the background early in the film. That could keep a segment of the ladies interested, I presume.

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    • Replies: @whorefinder
    The category "thriller" was, by design, a loose category, to be thrown onto a film for marketing purposes.

    One aspect I noticed of thrillers was a lot of really close up shots of the lead big-name actors, even during action scenes, closer and more frequent than movies before it. Silence of the Lambs actually has the characters looking directly into the camera in a two-character scene when they are talking to each other, instead of the camera looking over-the-shoulder of the listening character in a shot-reverse-shot normal set up.

    This direct technique made Silence of the Lambs much more intimate as the actors seemed to be looking right at you, and you could watch Jodie Foster's small facial expressions, registering her fear, insecurity, intelligence, and competence. With a good actor like Foster, this personalized the movie to a huge extent, registering a big box office and an Academy Award for her. It also reduced the need for a large-scale action sequence as the actor's expressions and reactions to things (such as a gunshot), if done well, could create as much impact as a wide shot of them in a gun fight.

    Thrillers lived and died, therefore, on the talent and performance of the main actors involved in them, which is why it became a good vehicle for top-flight actors (Denzel Washington, Harrison Ford, Tommy Lee Jones, Julia Roberts) working with good actors' directors. But if your actor wasn't emoting right, it came off as silly and hammy. Watch any of the old Pierce Brosnan Bond films and lament how the closeups of the action stars comes off very cheesy---it's because the actors faces aren't registering enough emotion for it to be passed on to you.

    The close up of actors' faces worked well to draw women in, who are naturally more interested in studying the emotions displayed by the people in the scene and less on the action (watch how any film directed towards women holds longer shots of people's faces than films for men). Women are way more adept at noticing minor facial changes to signal emotion, which is why only a good actor can get women to buy their emotional state, but once they do, they're hooked.

    , @guest
    Yeah, why not call Heat a "thriller?" It's a fairly broad category. Less broad than "action," more broad than "heist movie."
    , @Travis
    I would not classify Body Heat as a thriller, more like a modern Noir film...like the first Cohen brothers film , Blood Simple or the Linda Fiorentino film, The Last Seduction...or the Woody Harrelson film , Palmetto. They are often considered crime/drama films.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    Ashley Judd was a hard 9 in Heat, and Sela Ward was not far behind in The Fugitive. What made The Fugitive for me was Tommy Lee Jones; Harrison Ford spent the whole film looking confused.
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  187. @phil
    The Alinskyites used to be on the Outside. Now they are on the Inside.

    That has been the case for at least 40 years, arguably nearly a century.

    There have been developments since.

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  188. Travis says:
    @Autochthon
    The high-falutin' mathematicians and such mentioned earlier could be officers' billets with great pay, just look at the medical, engineering, and similar staff corps.

    The whole Leviathan reeks of bloated make-work and corruption.

    need to drain the swamp, the Department of Homeland security now employs 240,000 people, 108 congressional committees and subcommittees oversee the department’s operations.while the Department of Defense employs 2.8 million , of which 750,000 are civilians…

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  189. dcthrowback says: • Website
    @Veracitor

    This dovetails nicely with Ben Bradlee’s doubts that Woodward & Bernstein were telling him the full truth in regards to Deep Throat and Watergate.

    Further, Roger Stone’s book indicated that the original break in was a result of John Dean’s wanting to know if he is girl (Maureen Biner) was a working prostitute for Larry O’Brien’s DNC. She was.

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    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
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  190. whorefinder says: • Website
    @Captain Tripps

    For example, Point of No Return and The Pelican Brief and The Fugitive were call marketed as thrillers. The Pierce Brosnan-James Bond films of the period were shot in thriller format.
     
    Could the crime/action film Heat (1995) also be classified as a thriller? Unlike The Fugitive there were actual romantic sub-plots (Val Kilmer-Ashley Judd; Robert DeNiro-Amy Brenneman) that could pull in the ladies for a couples night out at the movies. The Fugitive sort of lacked that, although the implied deep love between Harrison Ford and Sela Ward, only briefly portrayed in flashback, was built in the background early in the film. That could keep a segment of the ladies interested, I presume.

    The category “thriller” was, by design, a loose category, to be thrown onto a film for marketing purposes.

    One aspect I noticed of thrillers was a lot of really close up shots of the lead big-name actors, even during action scenes, closer and more frequent than movies before it. Silence of the Lambs actually has the characters looking directly into the camera in a two-character scene when they are talking to each other, instead of the camera looking over-the-shoulder of the listening character in a shot-reverse-shot normal set up.

    This direct technique made Silence of the Lambs much more intimate as the actors seemed to be looking right at you, and you could watch Jodie Foster’s small facial expressions, registering her fear, insecurity, intelligence, and competence. With a good actor like Foster, this personalized the movie to a huge extent, registering a big box office and an Academy Award for her. It also reduced the need for a large-scale action sequence as the actor’s expressions and reactions to things (such as a gunshot), if done well, could create as much impact as a wide shot of them in a gun fight.

    Thrillers lived and died, therefore, on the talent and performance of the main actors involved in them, which is why it became a good vehicle for top-flight actors (Denzel Washington, Harrison Ford, Tommy Lee Jones, Julia Roberts) working with good actors’ directors. But if your actor wasn’t emoting right, it came off as silly and hammy. Watch any of the old Pierce Brosnan Bond films and lament how the closeups of the action stars comes off very cheesy—it’s because the actors faces aren’t registering enough emotion for it to be passed on to you.

    The close up of actors’ faces worked well to draw women in, who are naturally more interested in studying the emotions displayed by the people in the scene and less on the action (watch how any film directed towards women holds longer shots of people’s faces than films for men). Women are way more adept at noticing minor facial changes to signal emotion, which is why only a good actor can get women to buy their emotional state, but once they do, they’re hooked.

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    • Replies: @guest
    One reason they go with the vague descriptor "thriller" is because they're looking for wider audiences and don't want to be pigeonholed into looked-down-upon genres like horror. Not that it's bad to be a horror movie, considering how much money they make. But Silence of the Lambs wanted to be taken seriously, and they're not in the habit of giving Best Picture awards to horror, police procedurals, serial killer movies, or whatever other subgenres more accurately describe that movie.
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  191. guest says:
    @Captain Tripps

    For example, Point of No Return and The Pelican Brief and The Fugitive were call marketed as thrillers. The Pierce Brosnan-James Bond films of the period were shot in thriller format.
     
    Could the crime/action film Heat (1995) also be classified as a thriller? Unlike The Fugitive there were actual romantic sub-plots (Val Kilmer-Ashley Judd; Robert DeNiro-Amy Brenneman) that could pull in the ladies for a couples night out at the movies. The Fugitive sort of lacked that, although the implied deep love between Harrison Ford and Sela Ward, only briefly portrayed in flashback, was built in the background early in the film. That could keep a segment of the ladies interested, I presume.

    Yeah, why not call Heat a “thriller?” It’s a fairly broad category. Less broad than “action,” more broad than “heist movie.”

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  192. Ivy says:
    @anonguy
    How do you measure correctness of predictions?

    A long term secular trend vs. a bunch of short term base hits?

    So first you need to define acceptance criteria before you begin ranking.

    Remember, we are the clear thinkers, rather than rhetoricians, here.

    Scott Alexander at SlateStarCodex.com has periodic predictions accompanied with his estimates, along with recaps to assess performance. Interesting reading.

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  193. Baby boomer DEEP STATE government worker Michael Hayden says millennials are to blame for recent leaks involving the national security state. Hayden was former Director of both the NSA and CIA.

    Hayden is a treasonous leprechaun rat who pushes nation-wrecking mass immigration. Hayden supported Jebby Bush for president. Michael Hayden is perfectly representative of the evil baby boomer slobs who have kept our borders open to mass immigration and Islamic terrorism. The evil DEEP STATE traitors must be dislodged from power.

    Here is my opinion of Hayden from 2015:

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  194. a reader says:
    @fnn
    Semi-secret Alt-Right hand signal sighted at the White House:
    http://logicalmeme.com/?p=10066

    Largely unnoticed, however, was a curious hand gesture made by the 10-year-old toward the end of the footage. In a simpler time, the gesture could have been written off as an “ok” symbol… but not today. The hand movement bears a striking similarity to one that has often been made by the ultimate Trump meme warrior, Pepe the Frog.
     

    This curious hand gesture is the internationally recognized diving OK sign.

    Only 4,000,000 people [in the world] are aware of this hate fact.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Plus people who watched Lloyd Bridges on "Sea Hunt" after school in 1965.
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  195. @a reader
    This curious hand gesture is the internationally recognized diving OK sign.

    Only 4,000,000 people [in the world] are aware of this hate fact.

    Plus people who watched Lloyd Bridges on “Sea Hunt” after school in 1965.

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  196. Travis says:
    @Captain Tripps

    For example, Point of No Return and The Pelican Brief and The Fugitive were call marketed as thrillers. The Pierce Brosnan-James Bond films of the period were shot in thriller format.
     
    Could the crime/action film Heat (1995) also be classified as a thriller? Unlike The Fugitive there were actual romantic sub-plots (Val Kilmer-Ashley Judd; Robert DeNiro-Amy Brenneman) that could pull in the ladies for a couples night out at the movies. The Fugitive sort of lacked that, although the implied deep love between Harrison Ford and Sela Ward, only briefly portrayed in flashback, was built in the background early in the film. That could keep a segment of the ladies interested, I presume.

    I would not classify Body Heat as a thriller, more like a modern Noir film…like the first Cohen brothers film , Blood Simple or the Linda Fiorentino film, The Last Seduction…or the Woody Harrelson film , Palmetto. They are often considered crime/drama films.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Noir is something Hollywood loves for local pride reasons as a literary/cinematic genre that Hollywood played a huge role in developing.

    If you want to write a spec script to show off your talent to the movie industry, don't write a sci-fi spec script, because movie industry people feel that while sci-fi makes them a lot of money, they are suspicious of hard-core sci-fi enthusiasts as more trouble than they are worth.

    Instead, your writing a noir spec screenplay about a detective or a patsy and a sexy dame signals that you are One of Us, that you appreciate what the movie industry traditionally appreciates. For example, Rian Johnson, the guy directing this December's Star Wars film, got his start with a brilliant high school noir screenplay, Brick.

    Kasdan, similarly, had his big paydays writing Star Wars screenplays but got to direct the noir his fine script for Body Heat.

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  197. @Travis
    I would not classify Body Heat as a thriller, more like a modern Noir film...like the first Cohen brothers film , Blood Simple or the Linda Fiorentino film, The Last Seduction...or the Woody Harrelson film , Palmetto. They are often considered crime/drama films.

    Noir is something Hollywood loves for local pride reasons as a literary/cinematic genre that Hollywood played a huge role in developing.

    If you want to write a spec script to show off your talent to the movie industry, don’t write a sci-fi spec script, because movie industry people feel that while sci-fi makes them a lot of money, they are suspicious of hard-core sci-fi enthusiasts as more trouble than they are worth.

    Instead, your writing a noir spec screenplay about a detective or a patsy and a sexy dame signals that you are One of Us, that you appreciate what the movie industry traditionally appreciates. For example, Rian Johnson, the guy directing this December’s Star Wars film, got his start with a brilliant high school noir screenplay, Brick.

    Kasdan, similarly, had his big paydays writing Star Wars screenplays but got to direct the noir his fine script for Body Heat.

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  198. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Autochthon
    You know, Ive never understood, for hr life of me, ehybwe have all these redundant, civilian outfits in the first place. Shouldn't all the crap the NSA does be handled by cryptographers and similar rates (MOS) from the navy, army, and air force? We have a huge military outfit doing that kind of thibg already, why wasn't it grown and the stuff NSA does addd to its responsibilities?

    Likewise, the CIA should be remilitarised, back to its origins as the OSS: it should be a bunch of SEALs, pararescuemen, rangers, etc., no?

    Military personnel in the U.S.A. have historically and by international standards been astoundingly apolitical. The filters of having to undergo basic training and then the grueling stuff required to become a special operator themselves help weed out weirdos, dingbats, the antisocial, disloyal, etc. Being in the military makes accountability much easier, swifter, and harsher. No unions, no contracts, no bonuses and kickbacks through layers of contractors: your ass just belongs to Uncle Sam. You screw up, you get a court martial and a vacation in Leavenworth. Probably cheaper, too, then what civilians with inflated degrees from Harvard and Stanford demand.

    I'm probably missing something. I'm genuinely pretty ignorant about spook stuff. The FBI I get because their primary purpose is domestic law enforcement – you don't want the armed forces doing that. But I want to understand why all this other crap related to national defense isn't squarely within the bailiwick of the military.

    I'm genuinely seeking enlightenment with this post: what don't I understand?

    question

    You know, Ive never understood, for hr life of me, ehybwe have all these redundant, civilian outfits in the first place.

    answer

    Military personnel in the U.S.A. have historically and by international standards been astoundingly apolitical.

    someone wanted an org that wasn’t full of straight edge types

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  199. @Kyle McKenna
    OMG, Oprah. About the only demos she wouldn't command would be white & asian males over 120 IQ. And maybe some random trailer trash.

    It's hers, if she wants it. Trump vs Oprah in 2020 would be more fun than I even expected to have in this life.

    Trump would offer to dump Pence in return for Oprah joining his re-election ticket.

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    • Agree: Kyle McKenna
    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    I think the person Trump really wants to run against is Rosie O'Donnell.
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  200. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Larsen Halleck
    Left unsaid:

    Why is nobody addressing how THE NEW YORK TIMES is defending the honor of the CIA?

    Didn't liberals used to hate the CIA?

    The banking mafia make billions from cheap labor and off-shoring.

    Trump threatens that.

    The banking mafia own the media and getting rid of Trump is now higher priority for them than the usual Left-Right puppet show designed to make people think they live in a democracy.

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  201. Jefferson says:
    @reiner Tor

    which is much worse than anything Nixon did.
     
    How many people know exactly what it was what Nixon did? I'd probably have to google to tell exactly. How many people do know how is this worse than that, in a legal or moral sense? Redpilled commenters don't count, they're a tiny minority anyway.

    Yes, it's worse, but it doesn't matter. Facts don't probably matter at all.

    “How many people know exactly what it was what Nixon did?”

    Watergate does not bother me, does your conscious bother you?

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  202. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill B.
    OT

    https://policyexchange.org.uk/publication/racial-self-interest-is-not-racism/

    73% of white Clinton voters say a White American who wants to reduce immigration to maintain her group’s share of the population is being racist, but just 18% say a Latino or Asian American who wants to increase immigration from Latin America or Asia to boost her group’s share of the population is being racist
     

    Trump has a pool of 18-27% of white Clinton voters to still get – cool.

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  203. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @anonguy
    The CIA hack posted on wikileaks today was a salvo back against the Deep State by its shadowy enemies, that is for sure.

    Beyond that, I really have to congratulate you, Steve, on the foreseeing the larger secular trend, the end of secrecy, of which this development is part and parcel, that seminal article you wrote last fall.

    History before our eyes, and much of it predicted, so not particularly surprising, which is kind of weird. Maybe in a huge information availability environment there is always going to be a significant fraction of uncannily correct prognosticators or prognostication community. The key is just identifying them....

    The existence of PC, which causes society to ignore obvious truths, probably enhances the conditions for a minority, prescient, and by nature somewhat outlaw, demographic.

    Entirely new society emerging here guys....

    Interesting times, like 1989, remember them.

    Oh, BTW, luck o'the Trump suggests that the CIA hack of surveillance tools will eventually confirm Trump's assertion that his campaign was wiretapped.

    Probably not much luck to it, if you think about it.

    The existence of PC, which causes society to ignore obvious truths, probably enhances the conditions for a minority, prescient, and by nature somewhat outlaw, demographic.

    yes

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  204. @PV van der Byl
    One would think, with all that monitoring ability, the NSA and CIA could prevent wikileaks from receiving gigabytes of their most sensitive information.

    Perhaps, even, apprehend some of the miscreants.

    Yeah, every classified machine I’ve ever worked on had its USB ports disabled, and there is an air gap between the Siprnet (secret) and the public internet. The only other way to get info out is to burn CDs and then walk them out. Risky.

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    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Well, that should be risky, but that seems to have been just what Manning did. And he didn't get caught doing that.

    He got caught only because he told someone he met on the web what he was doing. That person contacted army counterintelligence.
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  205. @JohnnyGeo
    ot: anyone want to lay odds on the ethnicity of the perps in the case of the rhino poached in the Paris zoo?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-rhino-idUSKBN16E209

    Haven Monaghan, KKK member.

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  206. @Jack Hanson
    Alex Jones has been more correct than Sailer in the last year.

    Then why aren’t you over there instead of hectoring us here?

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    • Agree: reiner Tor
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  207. @Steve Sailer
    Trouble is, before the film was shot, Florida had abolished this form of the rule against perpetuities.

    Also, air conditioning had been invented.

    Still, quite a movie.

    True dat. I saw Body Heat when it first came out, and it held up well when I saw it again recently.
    It is William Hurt’s best movie and Kathleen Turner!!! Yowsa!

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  208. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Boomstick
    Jarrett moving in with Obama is just weird, which makes me wonder why it happened. Maybe she feared being surveilled by industrial strength entities. Obama probably has Secret Service protection, both physically and electronically. That raises the bar for doing either legal or illegal surveillance.

    Jarrett moving in with Obama is just weird, which makes me wonder why it happened.

    Yeah it is. I don’t believe for a second Obama wants to be a figurehead and Michelle even less. He wants to be golfing in Hawaii and they both prob want to separate quietly so he can a boyfriend without having to smuggle male prostitutes into the WH.

    I think she was put there *because* he doesn’t want to do it. I think she’s in there with a riding crop.

    I predict a knock down fight between her and Michelle – cue one of them going to hospital after a “fall”.

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  209. @Boomstick
    Jarrett moving in with Obama is just weird, which makes me wonder why it happened. Maybe she feared being surveilled by industrial strength entities. Obama probably has Secret Service protection, both physically and electronically. That raises the bar for doing either legal or illegal surveillance.

    Wonder what Michelle thinks about VJ moving in? The house ain’t that big.

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  210. @Captain Tripps

    For example, Point of No Return and The Pelican Brief and The Fugitive were call marketed as thrillers. The Pierce Brosnan-James Bond films of the period were shot in thriller format.
     
    Could the crime/action film Heat (1995) also be classified as a thriller? Unlike The Fugitive there were actual romantic sub-plots (Val Kilmer-Ashley Judd; Robert DeNiro-Amy Brenneman) that could pull in the ladies for a couples night out at the movies. The Fugitive sort of lacked that, although the implied deep love between Harrison Ford and Sela Ward, only briefly portrayed in flashback, was built in the background early in the film. That could keep a segment of the ladies interested, I presume.

    Ashley Judd was a hard 9 in Heat, and Sela Ward was not far behind in The Fugitive. What made The Fugitive for me was Tommy Lee Jones; Harrison Ford spent the whole film looking confused.

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    • Replies: @anon
    Yeah - Tommy Lee Jones made that film - like so many others.

    Speaking of movies and noir "The Drop" with Tom Hardy is excellent imo - perfect portrayal of "shallow affect".

    (and for extra iSteviness it even has Chechens)
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  211. @PV van der Byl
    Like a lot of large corpirations, governmet has massive capacity to store data.

    The question is how many people can they single out. There are an awful lot of bottlenecks in the system.

    This already means they can blackmail all important people who have anything to hide. They also have a lot of information on anyone potentially entering politics. Does that still not bother you?

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    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    What is different from the situation from the 1930s through (at least) the early 1970s when the FBI director kept extensive files on Senators, Congressmen, judges and various other influential people?

    This is not primarily a technological issue.
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  212. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Abe

    President Trump should clean house at the CIA and the other human intelligence government workers. President Trump should only trust the signals intelligence side of the national security state. And trust but verify with that crowd as well. FIRE all the non-technical bastards at the NSA and other electronic surveillance outfits that are leaking all the electronic stuff.
     
    Don't be like the cry-baby idiots at NYT, CNN, WaPO (aka Jeff Bezos's Totally Amazing Zine of Awesomeness).

    We need to keep shoving this truth into liberals' faces- Russians have an uncanny knack for intrigue (not to mention chess), and so why- if they hate Putin so much- are liberals and the Establishment so readily taking his bait? Trump is on the shortest leash of any modern President (and possibly any President ever). If there was any real chance of him being a Russian puppet, the neocon wing of the GOPe (pretty much the entire GOPe) would initiate impeachment proceedings in a heartbeat with Democrats in Congress trampling over each other to get on board.

    So wouldn't the canny Russian approach be to look like they helped Trump get in the White House (1 kiloton damage), let the Establishment work itself into a frenzy over the "hacking" allegations, which then leads to paralysis of the Executive as internal elements work to undermine Trump in the quixotic hopes he can be gotten rid of with enough leaks and scathing NYT editorials/SNL parodies (100 kiloton damage)? Which then provokes Trump and his supporters into purging the security apparatus of the United States, losing several generations of expertise (1 megaton damage)?

    I'm as mad as you about these efforts to discredit the President, but let's be adults here- the U.S. cannot afford a 1937 style 'housecleaning" of the CIA, FBI, and NSA.

    I’m as mad as you about these efforts to discredit the President, but let’s be adults here- the U.S. cannot afford a 1937 style ‘housecleaning” of the CIA, FBI, and NSA.

    Exact opposite.

    The primary jihadist threat comes from immigration. That part of the security services obsessed with short term security-itis before immigration aren’t doing their job. If they were doing their duty they’d be working to undermine the people behind open borders.

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  213. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    Ashley Judd was a hard 9 in Heat, and Sela Ward was not far behind in The Fugitive. What made The Fugitive for me was Tommy Lee Jones; Harrison Ford spent the whole film looking confused.

    Yeah – Tommy Lee Jones made that film – like so many others.

    Speaking of movies and noir “The Drop” with Tom Hardy is excellent imo – perfect portrayal of “shallow affect”.

    (and for extra iSteviness it even has Chechens)

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  214. @PV van der Byl
    One would think, with all that monitoring ability, the NSA and CIA could prevent wikileaks from receiving gigabytes of their most sensitive information.

    Perhaps, even, apprehend some of the miscreants.

    Perhaps, even, apprehend some of the miscreants.

    But they do get them. Snowden was already on board a plane, and they knew it was him, it’s not like he could’ve stayed home hiding it from them. Brad Manning was caught. This new guy will be caught, too.

    I think what made this guy possible was the fact that Obama made classified data available to many people, and probably they deliberately made it easier for leaks to happen (against Trump). That leaks also happened at the exact same time against the deep state was an unintended side effect.

    But I’m sure they will catch him.

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    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    No, neither Manning nor Snowden were caught.

    They simply exposed themselves.

    Manning was obviously unsuitable for the military. Not just homosexual but aggressively so, coming on to other servicemen and having very public outbursts.

    His security clearance was not lifted even after he had assaulted a female soldier during one of his public tantrums and had been court-martialed.

    Months after he had provided Wikileaks with a massive number of electronic documents, he was still in place. And even after emailing his NCO with photos of himself in female clothing and describing himself as having gender identity disorder.

    He was only caught after telling someone he met online what he was doing and that person contacted Army counterintelligence.

    Snowden was scarcely any more careful.

    This is not evidence of a well-oiled security operation at work.
    , @PV van der Byl
    If Snowden or Manning had just a modicum of self-control, they would have remained in place for years, collecting large sums in secret bank accounts funded by the Russians or Chinese or Iranians.

    Snowden didn't come to light because of the ordinary functioning of NSA counterintelligence. He came to light when any ordinary person was able to read about the secrets of US technical means, acquired at enormous cost, for the price of a copy of the Guardian or Der Spiegel or the South China Morning Post.
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  215. @reiner Tor
    This already means they can blackmail all important people who have anything to hide. They also have a lot of information on anyone potentially entering politics. Does that still not bother you?

    What is different from the situation from the 1930s through (at least) the early 1970s when the FBI director kept extensive files on Senators, Congressmen, judges and various other influential people?

    This is not primarily a technological issue.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
    Three major differences spring to mind: the ease with which the data can be retrieved and the ease with which it can be searched. Ease also equals speed in this context.

    Over and above all that, there is the stupefying comprehensiveness to the information in question. How many times have you sent emails, text messages, or (back in the day) instant messages online?

    That may actually be the biggest difference: we live all of our lives on electronic media these days, and hence are far more vulnerable than ever before. It's a colossal godsend to the spooks.

    Before the advent (and then, very quickly, the triumph) of electronic media, all conversations were private. We never had to consider how 'private' an exchange should be 'considered'.

    Meanwhile, they only need to 'single out' a few hundred at a time. The point is that they have the data, and the capability, to do so anytime they like. It's really child's play at this point.

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  216. @reiner Tor

    Perhaps, even, apprehend some of the miscreants.
     
    But they do get them. Snowden was already on board a plane, and they knew it was him, it's not like he could've stayed home hiding it from them. Brad Manning was caught. This new guy will be caught, too.

    I think what made this guy possible was the fact that Obama made classified data available to many people, and probably they deliberately made it easier for leaks to happen (against Trump). That leaks also happened at the exact same time against the deep state was an unintended side effect.

    But I'm sure they will catch him.

    No, neither Manning nor Snowden were caught.

    They simply exposed themselves.

    Manning was obviously unsuitable for the military. Not just homosexual but aggressively so, coming on to other servicemen and having very public outbursts.

    His security clearance was not lifted even after he had assaulted a female soldier during one of his public tantrums and had been court-martialed.

    Months after he had provided Wikileaks with a massive number of electronic documents, he was still in place. And even after emailing his NCO with photos of himself in female clothing and describing himself as having gender identity disorder.

    He was only caught after telling someone he met online what he was doing and that person contacted Army counterintelligence.

    Snowden was scarcely any more careful.

    This is not evidence of a well-oiled security operation at work.

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  217. @reiner Tor

    Perhaps, even, apprehend some of the miscreants.
     
    But they do get them. Snowden was already on board a plane, and they knew it was him, it's not like he could've stayed home hiding it from them. Brad Manning was caught. This new guy will be caught, too.

    I think what made this guy possible was the fact that Obama made classified data available to many people, and probably they deliberately made it easier for leaks to happen (against Trump). That leaks also happened at the exact same time against the deep state was an unintended side effect.

    But I'm sure they will catch him.

    If Snowden or Manning had just a modicum of self-control, they would have remained in place for years, collecting large sums in secret bank accounts funded by the Russians or Chinese or Iranians.

    Snowden didn’t come to light because of the ordinary functioning of NSA counterintelligence. He came to light when any ordinary person was able to read about the secrets of US technical means, acquired at enormous cost, for the price of a copy of the Guardian or Der Spiegel or the South China Morning Post.

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  218. @Steve Sailer
    Trump would offer to dump Pence in return for Oprah joining his re-election ticket.

    I think the person Trump really wants to run against is Rosie O’Donnell.

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  219. @Jim Don Bob
    Yeah, every classified machine I've ever worked on had its USB ports disabled, and there is an air gap between the Siprnet (secret) and the public internet. The only other way to get info out is to burn CDs and then walk them out. Risky.

    Well, that should be risky, but that seems to have been just what Manning did. And he didn’t get caught doing that.

    He got caught only because he told someone he met on the web what he was doing. That person contacted army counterintelligence.

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  220. guest says:
    @whorefinder
    The category "thriller" was, by design, a loose category, to be thrown onto a film for marketing purposes.

    One aspect I noticed of thrillers was a lot of really close up shots of the lead big-name actors, even during action scenes, closer and more frequent than movies before it. Silence of the Lambs actually has the characters looking directly into the camera in a two-character scene when they are talking to each other, instead of the camera looking over-the-shoulder of the listening character in a shot-reverse-shot normal set up.

    This direct technique made Silence of the Lambs much more intimate as the actors seemed to be looking right at you, and you could watch Jodie Foster's small facial expressions, registering her fear, insecurity, intelligence, and competence. With a good actor like Foster, this personalized the movie to a huge extent, registering a big box office and an Academy Award for her. It also reduced the need for a large-scale action sequence as the actor's expressions and reactions to things (such as a gunshot), if done well, could create as much impact as a wide shot of them in a gun fight.

    Thrillers lived and died, therefore, on the talent and performance of the main actors involved in them, which is why it became a good vehicle for top-flight actors (Denzel Washington, Harrison Ford, Tommy Lee Jones, Julia Roberts) working with good actors' directors. But if your actor wasn't emoting right, it came off as silly and hammy. Watch any of the old Pierce Brosnan Bond films and lament how the closeups of the action stars comes off very cheesy---it's because the actors faces aren't registering enough emotion for it to be passed on to you.

    The close up of actors' faces worked well to draw women in, who are naturally more interested in studying the emotions displayed by the people in the scene and less on the action (watch how any film directed towards women holds longer shots of people's faces than films for men). Women are way more adept at noticing minor facial changes to signal emotion, which is why only a good actor can get women to buy their emotional state, but once they do, they're hooked.

    One reason they go with the vague descriptor “thriller” is because they’re looking for wider audiences and don’t want to be pigeonholed into looked-down-upon genres like horror. Not that it’s bad to be a horror movie, considering how much money they make. But Silence of the Lambs wanted to be taken seriously, and they’re not in the habit of giving Best Picture awards to horror, police procedurals, serial killer movies, or whatever other subgenres more accurately describe that movie.

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  221. @ic1000
    Charles Murray never coined the phrase SuperZips, nor did he write "Coming Apart." Or "Human Accomplishment." However, he did co-author "The Bell Curve," which has been completely discredited.

    If you had gone to Middlebury College, you would know that.

    I agree. “The Bell Curve”, which I’ve never read, is totally discredited.

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    • Replies: @res
    Well, I've read one chapter of The Bell Curve so I am an expert as to why it is totally discredited.

    For those unaware of the controversy, and hence the joke, that would be Chapter 13 (funny that) Ethnic Differences in Cognitive Ability. Chapters 14-16 are also relevant. In case anyone thinks my joke is a strawman, please check out this Tucker Carlson interview mentioned in one of the Charles Murray/Middlebury threads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M65lzh4zyI

    Here is a summary of The Bell Curve which puts into perspective the proportion of it that was about race: http://www.intelltheory.com/bellcurve.shtml
    You can see chapter titles at the Google Books preview: https://books.google.com/books?id=s4CKqxi6yWIC&printsec=frontcover
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  222. @Svigor
    1. Fire every Hussein-era hire in the entire security apparatus, starting at the top. Replace them with military intelligence people, non-intel-related FBI employees, etc.
    2. After giving the new hires a few months to get up to speed, fire every pre-Hussein-era hire in the entire Security apparatus, starting at the top. Replace them with military intelligence people, non-intel-related FBI employees, etc.
    3. Begin targeted replacement of contractors in the security apparatus, starting with the most problematic. Replace them, where necessary, with new ones.

    There will be critics who say that this will reduce the efficacy of our security apparatus, but I say that given the nature of our current security apparatus, reducing its efficacy would be a good thing.

    I’m shocked, but Charles Krauthammer doesn’t seem to like the term “deep state” either (see link below).
     
    It's a short walk from "deep state" to "nation within a nation."

    No. Clear-cutting is not the appropriate response in this situation. Rather, run a ground fire through the impaired agencies. By this I mean a test that applies sustained stress to employees coupled with a measured response. The test should be designed in every agency to separate the fit from the infirm. Repeat again after five years, then ten.

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  223. @Autochthon
    Yep; the legendary Jesse Dukeminier was indeed my casebook's author.

    It's fun diversions like these that make Steve's site not just a blog or forum, but a true community.

    I really wish Kasdan had been more involved with the later waves of Star Wars films; I'm more and more convinced his – as much or more than Lucas' – was the genius that made the first three (or, at least, the second two...) so great.

    You didn’t study under the great Sarajane Love by any chance, did you?

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    Negative, Ghostrider; the pattern is full.
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  224. res says:
    @Neil Templeton
    I agree. "The Bell Curve", which I've never read, is totally discredited.

    Well, I’ve read one chapter of The Bell Curve so I am an expert as to why it is totally discredited.

    For those unaware of the controversy, and hence the joke, that would be Chapter 13 (funny that) Ethnic Differences in Cognitive Ability. Chapters 14-16 are also relevant. In case anyone thinks my joke is a strawman, please check out this Tucker Carlson interview mentioned in one of the Charles Murray/Middlebury threads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M65lzh4zyI

    Here is a summary of The Bell Curve which puts into perspective the proportion of it that was about race: http://www.intelltheory.com/bellcurve.shtml
    You can see chapter titles at the Google Books preview: https://books.google.com/books?id=s4CKqxi6yWIC&printsec=frontcover

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  225. @PV van der Byl
    What is different from the situation from the 1930s through (at least) the early 1970s when the FBI director kept extensive files on Senators, Congressmen, judges and various other influential people?

    This is not primarily a technological issue.

    Three major differences spring to mind: the ease with which the data can be retrieved and the ease with which it can be searched. Ease also equals speed in this context.

    Over and above all that, there is the stupefying comprehensiveness to the information in question. How many times have you sent emails, text messages, or (back in the day) instant messages online?

    That may actually be the biggest difference: we live all of our lives on electronic media these days, and hence are far more vulnerable than ever before. It’s a colossal godsend to the spooks.

    Before the advent (and then, very quickly, the triumph) of electronic media, all conversations were private. We never had to consider how ‘private’ an exchange should be ‘considered’.

    Meanwhile, they only need to ‘single out’ a few hundred at a time. The point is that they have the data, and the capability, to do so anytime they like. It’s really child’s play at this point.

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  226. @ben tillman
    You didn't study under the great Sarajane Love by any chance, did you?

    Negative, Ghostrider; the pattern is full.

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