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From the annals of foreign meddling from the New York Times:

Poland’s Nationalism Threatens Europe’s Values, and Cohesion
By STEVEN ERLANGER and MARC SANTORA FEB. 20, 2018

SNIADOWO, Poland — … The growing conflict between the original Western member states of the bloc and the newer members in Central and Eastern Europe is the main threat to the cohesion and survival of the European Union. It is not a simple clash, but a multibannered one of identity, history, values, religion and interpretations of democracy and “solidarity.”

… The Polish government, which is dominated by the Law and Justice party, itself dominated from the back rooms by the party chief, Jaroslaw Kaczynski, seems to have its own answer to the question.

It is more than happy to take European Union support, but worries that Poland’s share could come on the chopping block in the future. The country is to get nearly 9 percent of the European Union budget for 2014 to 2020, some 85 billion euros, or $105 billion.

But the vague threats to apply the brakes to the gravy train are unlikely to push the Kaczynski government to change. It has responded to European criticism by accusing Brussels and Germany — so recently Poland’s greatest ally in Europe — of dictating terms to newer members and trying to impose an elitist, secular vision.

It has campaigned on Polish national pride, “getting up off our knees,” portraying the predominantly Roman Catholic Poland, which traditionally sees itself as a victim of history, as the “Christ of nations.”

After being squeezed between empires and occupied in turns by fascism and communism, Poland is ready to take its place as an equal, Mr. Kaczynski asserts, no longer relegated to serfdom or secondary status.

… This combination of Polish nationalism, religious conservatism, anti-elitism and attacks on those supposedly seeking to dictate to Poland about values and migrant quotas has made Law and Justice by far the largest party in a divided country with a disorganized political opposition. …

But more than money, Law and Justice thrives on cultural and identity politics. It has contrasted a conservative, Catholic Poland and its family values with a godless, freethinking, gender-bending Western Europe.

Why oh why can’t Poland be more like Wakanda?

It accuses past governments, the opposition and the urban elites, of hankering after European approval and acceptance to the detriment of Polish interests.

Sniadowo district, a collection of villages northeast of Warsaw with roughly 5,500 people, reflects that support. While the pre-World War II population was about 40 percent Jewish, today it is Kaczynski country. …

“There is a fear among people that Western secularism is a threat to our traditional culture,” he added. “If things in Europe keep going in the same direction, people think that the migration crisis and terrorist attacks could start here, too.’’ …

While firmly in favor of membership, Law and Justice has a vision of the European Union similar to the British one — a union of nation states trading freely with one another but not interfering in domestic politics or national culture.

In contrast, true Europeans know that the European Union exists not for the benefit of Europeans but for Eritreans.

 
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  1. true Europeans know that the European Union exists not for the benefit of Europeans but for Eritreans.

    … and other players to be named later.

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  2. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Poland, the nasty nation that defied and resisted Russian imperialist cohesion, Nazi imperialist cohesion, Soviet imperialist cohesion, and EU globo-imperialist cohesion.

    All empires want their subjects to cohere to the Narrative and Agenda.

    Nasty Polacks just won’t cohere to the Program.

    Paradoxically, there is more internal cohesion within Poland because it resists external cohesion.

    If a nation coheres to external coercion, there is less cohesion within the nation.

    If a nation coheres to internal consensus, there is less cohesion with the empire.

    In a sane world, there would be no more empires, and sovereign nations will respect each other’s borders and laws. But for Poland, from the frying pan into the fire once again.

    EU that began as a project of unity within Europe turned into a unity with America and Africa.

    EU is a mini-empire that is now a part of a bigger empire. It can no longer be about unity among European nations but unity with non-European nations.
    EU must cohere to Africa, Middle East, and globo-US.
    THAT is ‘European values’. To turn Tuscany into Afro-Islamic world under pressure from Jews.

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    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev

    Paradoxically, there is more internal cohesion within Poland because it resists external cohesion.
     
    There is very little internal cohesion in Poland. That is Poland’s eternal tragedy. PiS is undemocratic because they know a solid block of 40% of Poles hate them and will try to reverse everything accomplished the second PiS loses power. From PiS point of view this is a battle for survival, and it is practically a cold civil war. If PiS loses, game over.

    I have spent time in few countries where people dislike, envy and distrust each other as much as Poles do. This seems to be a problem among Europeans in general. The only time we show solidarity is when forced to by an authoritarian government, but Poles are Europeans par excellence, with both the best and worst qualities magnified.
    , @Massimo Heitor

    Paradoxically, there is more internal cohesion within Poland because it resists external cohesion.
     
    Sorry to repost... Even Bryan Caplan argues that ethnic diversity undermines national soliditarity/cohesion but that is a feature not a bug in that it cohesion is an obstacle to free market reforms.
    , @Client 9
    Genius!
    , @Cory
    Poland is in the right. The West is full of weak minded men lead by their mothers while drowning in a sea of cultural suicide and bent over backwards by the people that exploit their accomplishments.
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  3. Poland has a long history of anti – semitism, which is why few Jews remain in Poland. That is the traditional culture the Poles are seeking to maintain. Poland respects other religions, so long as those religions are certain branches of Christianity. Otherwise, the Poles are mired in their hatred of other peoples.

    The problem is the catholic church

    Poland needs to be cut loose from the EU gravy train if they’re going to continue their drift towards authoritarian governance!
    The hand of putin is all over this and soon Poland will be once again be devoured by the the Russian bear!

    Can’t have it both ways Poland. EU, time to cut off the gravy train.

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    • Replies: @Alfa158
    Like you, I also found it amusing that the NYT found it necessary to throw in the seemingly irrelevant bit about Sniadowo being 40% Jewish before WW2 . Despite anti-semitism Poland had millions of Jews up until one of Merkel’s predecessors as Chancellor embarked on his 1939 program for European Union. I wonder if the author of this piece is slyly making a signal that is subversive to the NYT dogma? I have read that there are still journalists at the Times who are unhappy about how batshit crazy the editorial staff is.
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Hey, hey, hey, TD. Stay on message here. I want you to write "white wombs" 100 times on the chalkboard so you won't forgot it next time.
    , @Rosamond Vincy
    Yeah, anti-Semitic Catholics like Sts. John-Paul II and Maximilien Kolbe. Bad, bad Poles! No pączki for YOU!
    , @anonymous
    A pity. Sounds like they may have cut off your medication, TD.
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  4. Maybe, they should start calling it the Eritrean Union…

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  5. NY Times is right, you know. The “Europeans values” (such as they are) are really threatened by Polish nationalism.

    It’s funny. Poland had always been poison to any nation, empire, or alliance that had it – an ultimate booby prize. Now it begins to work its magic on the latest of them, the EU. Next decades will be interesting.

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    • Agree: NickG
    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    Oh, if only it could be the white elephant that finally saps the EU of all its power ...
    , @Anonymous
    Wait that Serbia joins in, then Union can learns some new Principles.
    , @Anon 2
    "Poland had always been poison to any nation"

    Poland has a glorious past. For about 250 years as the Polish-Lithuanian
    Commonwealth (but dominated by the Polish language and culture) it
    was the largest country in Europe. The Commonwealth which existed
    until 1795 (Third Partition) was a highly decentralized federal republic,
    in many ways a forerunner of the United States in that it had freedom
    of religion, habeas corpus, 15% of the population was eligible to vote
    in 1600 ( much more than in Western Europe), and accepted refugees
    and dissidents from all over Europe at the time when the West Europeans
    were butchering each other during the Religious Wars following the Protestant
    Reformation. Poland only began to go into decline after 800 years of
    existence, until the First Partition of 1772, initiated by two Germans -
    Frederick of Prussia and Catherine II of Russia - accelerated the
    movement toward loss of independence. Poland was regarded as too
    leftist, too libertine, too much like revolutionary France, and therefore
    a clear danger to the entrenched status quo in Prussia and Russia.

    Many historians believe that the Partitions of Poland led directly to WW I
    and to the Bolshevik Revolution. Peace in Europe was tenable as long as
    Poland separated Germany and Russia. In the absence of such a buffer
    state it didn't take long before Germany and Russia went at each other
    with bared fangs.
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  6. a union of nation states trading freely with one another but not interfering in domestic politics or national culture.

    The horror! The horror!

    The recent squabble over Poland’s new law about history and the Holocaust is another example of the government offending Western European sensibilities about free speech for domestic gain.

    Right, Western European countries just love free speech. Can’t get enough of open debate about immigration and Muslim crime statistics.

    But more than money, Law and Justice thrives on cultural and identity politics. It has contrasted a conservative, Catholic Poland and its family values with a godless, freethinking, gender-bending Western Europe.

    It accuses past governments, the opposition and the urban elites, of hankering after European approval and acceptance to the detriment of Polish interests.

    Gosh, I wonder where Law and Justice got that idea from? It’s almost as though they have functioning eyeballs or something. Elites in every country in Western Europe, the U.S., Canada and Australia has sold their own people down the river for money and the right to morally preen. Maybe the Polish elite will choose their people people over fawning DB elites from other countries. We’ll see.

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    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev

    Maybe the Polish elite will choose their people people over fawning DB elites from other countries.
     
    The Polish elite is just like all the other elites. Poland is perhaps the only Western country not run by its elite, which is why it gets extra hatred. Trump and Orban are both cynics using nationalism for personal enrichment. Kaczynski is the real deal, perhaps the last real Christian nationalist since Franco.
    , @AnotherDad


    a union of nation states trading freely with one another but not interfering in domestic politics or national culture.
     
    The horror! The horror!
     
    Seems like even i can remember when "progressives" were in favor of "national self-determination". Anyone else?

    If i recall that was (in essence) one of Wilson's 14 points and why his speech was wildly popular around the world. But apparently the people in charge of "progress" now, don't like nations very much ... find them kind of icky.

    Now "progressive" means "believe what we believe about 'transgender' bathroom policy right now or you're subject to drone strike from central command!"
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  7. @Tiny Duck
    Poland has a long history of anti - semitism, which is why few Jews remain in Poland. That is the traditional culture the Poles are seeking to maintain. Poland respects other religions, so long as those religions are certain branches of Christianity. Otherwise, the Poles are mired in their hatred of other peoples.

    The problem is the catholic church

    Poland needs to be cut loose from the EU gravy train if they're going to continue their drift towards authoritarian governance!
    The hand of putin is all over this and soon Poland will be once again be devoured by the the Russian bear!

    Can’t have it both ways Poland. EU, time to cut off the gravy train.

    Like you, I also found it amusing that the NYT found it necessary to throw in the seemingly irrelevant bit about Sniadowo being 40% Jewish before WW2 . Despite anti-semitism Poland had millions of Jews up until one of Merkel’s predecessors as Chancellor embarked on his 1939 program for European Union. I wonder if the author of this piece is slyly making a signal that is subversive to the NYT dogma? I have read that there are still journalists at the Times who are unhappy about how batshit crazy the editorial staff is.

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    • Replies: @Anon 2
    From its inception in the late 800s, Poland was known as
    Paradisus Iudaeorum (Jewish Paradise) because unlike in
    Western Europe where the Jews were periodically butchered
    (esp. in the German states) and confined to urban ghettoes,
    in Poland the Jews were free to live where they wanted and
    were given more privileges than the Polish population itself (no
    doubt inspiring resentment). The Jews were finally expelled
    from Western European countries, sometimes repeatedly,
    over issues such as usury, etc. until very few were left. By 1550
    about 90% of the world's Ashkenazi Jews lived in the Polish-
    Lithuanian Commonwealth, i.e., they were subjects of the
    Polish king. In Poland they had so much freedom, partly because
    of the permissive and decentralized Polish governance, that
    they basically created a country within a country, with their own
    schools, courts, and taxation system. They spoke Yiddish, and
    rarely learned to speak the local language well, which added to
    the resentment.

    In the 1930s 10% of Poland's population was Jewish, about 3.5 million,
    by far much larger percentage than in the Soviet Union or Germany. Imagine
    the United States with 35 million Jews instead of the current 5-6 million. Clearly,
    there would be many more opportunities for friction between the Jews and
    the Christians.

    What was remembered in the 1930s Poland was that (1) Jewish leaders during
    WW I and at the Versailles Peace Conference were vehemently opposed to
    Poland regaining independence ;(2) Many Jews prior to WW I refused to learn
    Polish. For example, Isaac Bashevis Singer spoke Polish poorly and wrote his
    books in Yiddish even though he was born and raised in Poland.

    But what really created tension between the Polish Christians and Polish Jews
    in the 1920s-'30s was the fact that so many Jews, esp. among the urban
    intelligentsia, were Communist sympathizers, i.e., they subscribed to
    a "godless doctrine" developed by a German (though of Jewish origin),
    not something that would endear them to the majority population. What's
    even worse, those Communist sympathizers among the Jews were thought
    to have contacts in the Soviet Union which was then seen as the giant
    Communist menace in the East, contributing to the popularity of Hitler.
    Poland being next door knew exactly what was going in the Soviet Union
    in the 1930s - the level of Stalinist butchery was unprecedented in modern
    European history, starting with Holodomor, etc
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  8. Back in the late 80s and early 90s, being newly divorced and needing the money, on the side I did a lot of carpentry remodel work for a friend of mine who at the time was a bit of a slum lord. In about 91 or 2, shortly after the Eritreans won their independence from Ethiopia, my friend’s apartment building in Portland filled with Eritreans, I always wondered why they didn’t stay once they won their independence (the commies must have ascended to the leadership in the ensuing political vacuum there). However, I was struck by their intelligence (one was a former air force officer and pilot), their orthodox Christianity, and for Africans, their fine features and high cheekbones. One of the women was working as a model somewhere in town, and was quite beautiful.

    While remodeling their low-rent kitchen I used to have great discussions with the former air force officer who spoke nearly perfect English, and who was very snobbish about being Eritrean, not Ethiopian.

    On those occasions where only his young wife was home and I was there working in their apartment, all the old Eritrean ladies would come downstairs and stay in the apartment until I was finished for the day, and of course she would have to wait on them hand and foot the whole time. None of the women ever talked to me.

    Europe could do worse than Eritreans.

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    • Replies: @Barnard
    I think the data on Eritreans who have come since 1992 is in conflict with your anecdote. Did you think to ask how many of the "old ladies" were collecting Social Security? I suppose they technically could do worse, but why would they want them in the first place?

    https://www.tesfanews.net/eritrean-migrants-use-holiday-homelands/
    , @AndrewR
    I know nothing of Eritrea but, despite the extent to which many Eritreans consider themselves distinct from Ethiopians, they are essentially brother-ethnicities, and the most famous Ethiopian in the US is the rapper Weeknd, who seems to have fully assimilated into some of the worse aspects including gratuitous use of the n-word [I would write the word if I didn't fear Sailer memoryholing my comment for it].
    , @Mr. Anon

    Europe could do worse than Eritreans.
     
    They could do better than Eritreans too.................by admitting nobody.
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  9. I’m heartened that at least some of the NYT commenters are calling BS.

    It would be one thing to openly advocate for open-ish borders… It’s this dishonest trickery to claim that open-ish borders is a supposedly long-standing “European Value” rather than some recent radical ideology.

    Leading open border ideologue, Bryan Caplan, argues that reduced cohesion/solidarity is a feature not a bug of open borders and ethnic diversity:

    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/09/ethnic_diversit.html

    The claim isn’t that open borders will “destroy” solidarity or the welfare state, but merely that open borders will undermine both. And while free-marketers may well agree that some degree of solidarity is good, it’s also hard for free-marketers to deny that current levels of solidarity are excessive. Solidarity stands in the way of free-market reforms in pensions, education, health care, taxation, agricultural policy, and much more.

    The NYT and the mainstream left advocates of open-ish borders make precisely the opposite arguments:
    - The NYT+mainstream left argue that solidarity + social cohesion is good. The Bryan Caplan crowd is arguing that it’s bad.
    - The NYT+mainstream left argue that opposition to immigration reduces social cohesion/solidarity, and open-ish borders increases cohesion/solidarity. Caplan makes the opposite, and obvious, argument. Nationalism preserves cohesion+solidarity within nations. Open-ish borders and ethnic diversity undermine and reduce cohesion+solidarity.

    Both the mainstream left and Bryan Caplan agree on the end political policy: open-ish borders, but their logic and reasoning is completely opposite.

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  10. @Anon
    Poland, the nasty nation that defied and resisted Russian imperialist cohesion, Nazi imperialist cohesion, Soviet imperialist cohesion, and EU globo-imperialist cohesion.

    All empires want their subjects to cohere to the Narrative and Agenda.

    Nasty Polacks just won't cohere to the Program.

    Paradoxically, there is more internal cohesion within Poland because it resists external cohesion.

    If a nation coheres to external coercion, there is less cohesion within the nation.

    If a nation coheres to internal consensus, there is less cohesion with the empire.

    In a sane world, there would be no more empires, and sovereign nations will respect each other's borders and laws. But for Poland, from the frying pan into the fire once again.

    EU that began as a project of unity within Europe turned into a unity with America and Africa.

    EU is a mini-empire that is now a part of a bigger empire. It can no longer be about unity among European nations but unity with non-European nations.
    EU must cohere to Africa, Middle East, and globo-US.
    THAT is 'European values'. To turn Tuscany into Afro-Islamic world under pressure from Jews.

    Paradoxically, there is more internal cohesion within Poland because it resists external cohesion.

    There is very little internal cohesion in Poland. That is Poland’s eternal tragedy. PiS is undemocratic because they know a solid block of 40% of Poles hate them and will try to reverse everything accomplished the second PiS loses power. From PiS point of view this is a battle for survival, and it is practically a cold civil war. If PiS loses, game over.

    I have spent time in few countries where people dislike, envy and distrust each other as much as Poles do. This seems to be a problem among Europeans in general. The only time we show solidarity is when forced to by an authoritarian government, but Poles are Europeans par excellence, with both the best and worst qualities magnified.

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    • Replies: @Bies Podkrakowski

    PiS is undemocratic because they know a solid block of 40% of Poles hate them (...).
     
    That's a strange definition of being undemocratic (and by extension of being democratic).

    Our host wrote, somewhere on this blog probably, that new, current version of democracy was redefined as the opposite of majority rule.

    It fits.
    , @Ivy

    I have spent time in few countries where people dislike, envy and distrust each other as much as Poles do. This seems to be a problem among Europeans in general. The only time we show solidarity is when forced to by an authoritarian government, but Poles are Europeans par excellence, with both the best and worst qualities magnified.
     
    Southeastern Europe got some press on that front during the 1990s during the breakup of Yugoslavia. One descriptive phrase from the era: At least his (the neighbor's) cow died.

    The topic could spin off many related items like the Hajnal Line, Manorialism or Ostsiedlung.
    , @Anon
    That is Poland’s eternal tragedy. PiS is undemocratic because they know a solid block of 40% of Poles hate them and will try to reverse everything accomplished the second PiS loses power.

    My sense is that even anti-PiS Poles are not too crazy about the Merkel Plan.

    Also, 60% support for hardline nationalism is pretty impressive in today's Europe.

    But even if Poland is divided, it's due to external influences. Too many Poles feel a need to over-compensate in seeming Western and 'American' because they conflate Slavicism with backwardness, Russian-ness, and uncoolness. So, they go out of their way to show the West, "We are more like YOU guys" -- the better kind of Slavs.
    This wasn't a bad attitude when the far more advanced Western Europe was virtually all-white and whiter than Russia, which has Asiatic element. But surely Poles are waking up that France, UK, and Germany are now turning LESS White than even Russia.

    To be sure, there is the 'black is the new white' meme in the EU that is premised on both condescending sympathy for blacks and awestruck worship of them. On the one hand, the West looks at blacks and feels sorry for them. Since blacks didn't have great historical figures, scientists, thinkers, and artist like the West, the thing is boost black pride by showing historical white figures as black. It won't be long before Shakespeare and Beethoven are presented as blacks. It's to boost self-esteem among those poor pathetic blacks.

    But there is also the awe of blacks as the real master race since they are good at sports and such rapping-jiving Wakandan studs. So, there is an element of white psyche that feels that since blacks are so naturally superior, they deserve to be gifted with the glories of the West. In other words, Europeans toiled and built all this good stuff to hand over to a god-race.

    Such attitudes exist in many cultures. Among certain indigenous New World tribes, there were myths about how come messianic god-people will arrive one day to whom the people must bow down. Some of these tribes mistook the Europeans as those godlike figures and were willing to serve them. And that was also why so many whites were so foaming-at-the-mouth about Obama.

    Or consider the Romans, the greatest military power of their time. But when members of the Roman elite heard of how some Jewish guy was the Son of God, the entire empire was geared toward worshiping that Jewish man. Even though Romans fought so hard and worked so hard to create this vast empire, all of its glory and power was laid at the feet of a Jewish man mythologized as the Son of the one and only God.

    People work hard to make stuff, but in the end, they don't worship the things they make. They want to worship something that is greater than themselves. And via the electronic media, especially in this sensual-hedonistic age, a lot of white people have been conditioned to feel that blacks are both the objects of greatest pity and greatest awe, which is a potent combination if we go by the history of Christianity whereJesus was seen as the figure most deserving of sympathy(He got whupped bad and was so helpless at the hands of his tormentors) and deserving of greatest awe(by golly, He is the Son of God). When white folks heard MLK, they heard god. When white folks saw Michael Jordan, they saw an angel defying gravity. When white folks see Oprah, they see earth mother goddess mammy with milk for all of mankind.

    So, the new cult in US and EU is 'black is the new white'. And discovery of Cheddar Man supposedly proves this case even more. (Btw, if UK should go black because some primitive living 10,000 was black, why shouldn't it go tribal-warrior since it was run by tribal warriors 1,000 yrs ago?)

    And Poles seem to be divided on this. On the one hand, they are proud of Polishness as a national identity that resisted Nazism and Sovietism. But the other part of Polishness has been the long-running theme that Poles, like Czechs, are a better kind of Slavs who look to the enlightened West than to the backward Oriental-Despotic East or Russia. In other words, Poles are more white than 'Asiatic'; they are the unslavic Slavs. (This is a theme I've heard so many times from Poles in America. It's like the worst insult is to conflate Polish Slavs with Russian Slavs. What?? "We are CATHOLICS!")

    But Western Europe is now impugning whiteness and saying that Europe is really about Diversity and blackness. This is turning away lots of Poles as they've long prized whiteness.

    But, there is whiteness as race and whiteness as status, which is far more fluid.
    Whiteness as racial essentialism is about people who really are white by blood.
    But 'whiteness' as status is more about having the right kind of attitude in tune with the most privileged whites.

    The status-ist concept of whiteness is predicated on the notion that whiteness is more progressive, more evolved, and more ahead of the game over rest of society. This is why the homomania stuff was so addictive to white elites. With the rest of the world catching up with democracy, technology, and modernity, there was nothing to set the White world apart from others. So, even as white progs called for diversity and 'inclusion' with non-whites, they still wanted something to make them feel more advanced than others.
    Since most of the world was anti-homo, being homomanical really set the West from the Rest, and it gave the white world something to feel morally superior about and go into missionary mode to spread the faith to the benighted 'less evolved' fools around the world. Homomania restored white pride of status if not white pride of race.

    When Christianity was essentially a white religion, it made whites feel superior to others. Though there was never an official covenant between Christianity and the white race, it sort of felt as though there was one since the rise of Christianity was so closely tied to Europe, especially as Near East and North Africa came under Muslim rule. But today, you're likely to find more Christians in Africa and Asia than in the West. It's no longer a white thing. Also, given that Western 'values' have veered so much away from traditional Christian values, Christianity in the non-West now stand as an obstacle to globalism.

    Anyway, 'whiteness' as status is malleable and fluid, just like 'European values' has multiple meanings. It could mean the values of real Europeans, or it could mean the values that should be imposed on Europeans by globalism. Since the Power decides, current 'European' values are fluid than essential. Both 'European' and 'values' can mean just about anything to further globalism. So, even if an Italian town is totally remade into an Afro-Islamic community, it is the triumph of 'European values' since Africans and Muslims can be constituted as 'new Europeans' on the basis of 'European values' of 'inclusion' and 'diversity'.

    So, while Poles who are into essential whiteness of race/culture are likely to be appalled by the new Western Europe, Poles who are into the fluid 'whiteness' of status are likely to follow the latest trends of globalist whites.
    After all, status-climbing is about following and imitating the most successful and powerful people. And even now, the most successful and powerful whites are in the West, and they are the ones who are pushing 'diversity' and 'inclusion'. So, even as that kind of 'whiteness' is actually a war on the white race, it is the whiteness of success, money, and status.

    And Poles who aspire to be approved and accepted by such winner-whites are likely to go with 'black is the new white' because it is the chic prevailing mindset among the most powerful and successful whites. In contrast, whiteness as essentialist defense of race is associated with third-rate loser nations like Hungary and the Polish working class.
    , @istevefan

    There is very little internal cohesion in Poland.
     
    There is very little internal cohesion in the USA too.


    This seems to be a problem among Europeans in general.
     
    There is a sort of cold, civil war ongoing among European peoples worldwide. There might be something particular in Poland related to their history, but among Europeans from North America to Europe and Oceania, there is a bitter divide. You have whites on one side who are largely globalist, secular and ashamed of their past. On the others side you have whites who support their particular nations' borders, Christianity (whether believers or not) and are proud of the accomplishments of European peoples.

    There have been some hot flare-ups, such as the Brevik incident, but so far it is largely a cold war. One wonders how much longer this will continue.
    , @Anon 2
    "There is little internal cohesion in Poland"

    And yet, compared to Russia, Poland has extremely low levels
    of social dysfunction. It has a very low divorce rate; extremely
    low homicide rate - much lower than Russia or the United States;
    extremely low abortion rates, HIV infection rates, and drug addiction
    rates. Its rate of alcohol consumption is about the same as that
    in the United States, and much lower than in Russia, Czechia, Germany
    or France. Poles like to complain but by all metrics Poland is currently
    thriving, and wants to keep it that way.

    From Poland's point of view, Germany and France have lost their
    élan vital (vital force) or will to live, whereas Poland is enjoying
    its relative independence (since 1989) after ceasing to exist as an
    independent country for almost 200 years (from the last partition
    in 1795 to the overthrow of Communism in 1989).
    , @Jack D
    This is indeed the paradox of democracy. We see it in the US on divisive issues such as abortion and gun control and in the past segregation. The party in power refuses to accept any reasonable compromise and tries to irreversibly enshrine its position into the national structure because it is afraid that its gains are really ephemeral and will be swept away at the next election. So you end up with "all or nothing" type extreme positions and then when the wind finally shifts you go 180 degrees in the opposite direction. We went from having strict segregation to have preferences for blacks. From having no abortions to murdering babies that were nearly full term. Etc.
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  11. I suppose that at this point the Polish government should appoint a special prosecutor to go after the New York Times for interfering in the next Polish elections!

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  12. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    a union of nation states trading freely with one another but not interfering in domestic politics or national culture.
     
    The horror! The horror!

    The recent squabble over Poland’s new law about history and the Holocaust is another example of the government offending Western European sensibilities about free speech for domestic gain.

     

    Right, Western European countries just love free speech. Can't get enough of open debate about immigration and Muslim crime statistics.

    But more than money, Law and Justice thrives on cultural and identity politics. It has contrasted a conservative, Catholic Poland and its family values with a godless, freethinking, gender-bending Western Europe.

    It accuses past governments, the opposition and the urban elites, of hankering after European approval and acceptance to the detriment of Polish interests.

     

    Gosh, I wonder where Law and Justice got that idea from? It's almost as though they have functioning eyeballs or something. Elites in every country in Western Europe, the U.S., Canada and Australia has sold their own people down the river for money and the right to morally preen. Maybe the Polish elite will choose their people people over fawning DB elites from other countries. We'll see.

    Maybe the Polish elite will choose their people people over fawning DB elites from other countries.

    The Polish elite is just like all the other elites. Poland is perhaps the only Western country not run by its elite, which is why it gets extra hatred. Trump and Orban are both cynics using nationalism for personal enrichment. Kaczynski is the real deal, perhaps the last real Christian nationalist since Franco.

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    • Replies: @Jack D

    Trump and Orban are both cynics using nationalism for personal enrichment.
     
    Despite Democrat slander I have seen no real evidence that Trump is using or intends to use the Presidency as a money making opportunity. The Clintons and Obama - that's another story.
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  13. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Israel should cohere with pan-Semitic Judeo-Islamic values.
    Never mind the notion of Judeo-Christian values.
    Judeo-Islamic values are more like it. After all, American Jews have better opinion of Muslims than of Evangelical Christians who make the most noise about Judeo-Christian values. Most Jews reject the notion of ‘Judeo-Christian’.

    Jews and Arabs are both Semites. And Muslims tolerated Jews in the Middle East. So, Judeo-Islamic values must prevail in all of Middle East. Israel must cohere to Pan-Judeo-Islamic-Semitic values. It must allow Right of Return and Open Borders and break down the walls. Israeli-Zionist nationalism is threatening Semitic values and Judeo-Islamic cohesion.

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    • Replies: @Hash
    I accept that your comment about Judeo-Islamic bonds may have been penned tongue-in-cheek. In which case, my comment will provide some context. I have lived and worked in the Arabian Gulf and worked on assignments to Egypt and Jordan. The assertion that “Muslims tolerated Jews in the Middle East” is patently untrue. In the Gulf countries, the word “Israel” is censored from all books. Maps showing Israel are either torn from books, or the pages are glued together to hide the map. Anyone who has an Israeli stamp in a passport is refused entry. The Hadeeth explains that Muhammed had 23 wives and concubines. His final wife Safiyyah was war bounty - he executed her husband and family precisely because they were Jews and refused to convert to Islam. Hence this represents a tenet of Islam ... if you are not prepared to recite the Shahada and convert to Islam, you are treated as “kuffar”, heathen. That means that even Europeans like myself are subject to racism, duplicity, lies and evasion by Arabs. I was fortunate enough to visit Yemen in 2004 before it relapsed into a failed state. The sizeable Jewish community had been driven out of the country and its wealth plundered. In every town the locals would barter carved Jewish silver artefacts for money. If, as you say, “American Jews have a better opinion of Muslims”, the feeling is definitely not reciprocated in the Middle East.
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  14. “Threatens Europe’s Values” = Europe’s transvaluation of values into Anti-European values.

    “Europe’s Cohesion” = Europe’s plan to systematically destroy any group cohesion or solidarity in Europe.

    Having fought off Nazism and Communism, both intended to destroy the Polish Nation-State, I wonder if Poland can resist the “soft power” of “International Europeanism”.

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  15. @Peter Akuleyev

    Paradoxically, there is more internal cohesion within Poland because it resists external cohesion.
     
    There is very little internal cohesion in Poland. That is Poland’s eternal tragedy. PiS is undemocratic because they know a solid block of 40% of Poles hate them and will try to reverse everything accomplished the second PiS loses power. From PiS point of view this is a battle for survival, and it is practically a cold civil war. If PiS loses, game over.

    I have spent time in few countries where people dislike, envy and distrust each other as much as Poles do. This seems to be a problem among Europeans in general. The only time we show solidarity is when forced to by an authoritarian government, but Poles are Europeans par excellence, with both the best and worst qualities magnified.

    PiS is undemocratic because they know a solid block of 40% of Poles hate them (…).

    That’s a strange definition of being undemocratic (and by extension of being democratic).

    Our host wrote, somewhere on this blog probably, that new, current version of democracy was redefined as the opposite of majority rule.

    It fits.

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  16. Nigel Farage says the European Union will go DODO in ten years. I say the EU goes belly up in less than 5 years. The Alternative for Deutschland political party in Germany and Marine Le Pen in France will kill the evil EU.

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  17. @Tiny Duck
    Poland has a long history of anti - semitism, which is why few Jews remain in Poland. That is the traditional culture the Poles are seeking to maintain. Poland respects other religions, so long as those religions are certain branches of Christianity. Otherwise, the Poles are mired in their hatred of other peoples.

    The problem is the catholic church

    Poland needs to be cut loose from the EU gravy train if they're going to continue their drift towards authoritarian governance!
    The hand of putin is all over this and soon Poland will be once again be devoured by the the Russian bear!

    Can’t have it both ways Poland. EU, time to cut off the gravy train.

    Hey, hey, hey, TD. Stay on message here. I want you to write “white wombs” 100 times on the chalkboard so you won’t forgot it next time.

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    • LOL: TomSchmidt
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  18. @Chris from Gresham
    Back in the late 80s and early 90s, being newly divorced and needing the money, on the side I did a lot of carpentry remodel work for a friend of mine who at the time was a bit of a slum lord. In about 91 or 2, shortly after the Eritreans won their independence from Ethiopia, my friend's apartment building in Portland filled with Eritreans, I always wondered why they didn't stay once they won their independence (the commies must have ascended to the leadership in the ensuing political vacuum there). However, I was struck by their intelligence (one was a former air force officer and pilot), their orthodox Christianity, and for Africans, their fine features and high cheekbones. One of the women was working as a model somewhere in town, and was quite beautiful.

    While remodeling their low-rent kitchen I used to have great discussions with the former air force officer who spoke nearly perfect English, and who was very snobbish about being Eritrean, not Ethiopian.

    On those occasions where only his young wife was home and I was there working in their apartment, all the old Eritrean ladies would come downstairs and stay in the apartment until I was finished for the day, and of course she would have to wait on them hand and foot the whole time. None of the women ever talked to me.

    Europe could do worse than Eritreans.

    I think the data on Eritreans who have come since 1992 is in conflict with your anecdote. Did you think to ask how many of the “old ladies” were collecting Social Security? I suppose they technically could do worse, but why would they want them in the first place?

    https://www.tesfanews.net/eritrean-migrants-use-holiday-homelands/

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  19. European Values … a fine oxymoron.

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    • Replies: @The Millennial Falcon
    The differences between the Western Europeans and Poland (as well as Russia and Greece) on social issues are extraordinary: http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/04/15/global-morality/table/homosexuality/

    Poland is a far away from Germany and Spain on these issues as it from Nigeria and Pakistan.
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  20. @Tiny Duck
    Poland has a long history of anti - semitism, which is why few Jews remain in Poland. That is the traditional culture the Poles are seeking to maintain. Poland respects other religions, so long as those religions are certain branches of Christianity. Otherwise, the Poles are mired in their hatred of other peoples.

    The problem is the catholic church

    Poland needs to be cut loose from the EU gravy train if they're going to continue their drift towards authoritarian governance!
    The hand of putin is all over this and soon Poland will be once again be devoured by the the Russian bear!

    Can’t have it both ways Poland. EU, time to cut off the gravy train.

    Yeah, anti-Semitic Catholics like Sts. John-Paul II and Maximilien Kolbe. Bad, bad Poles! No pączki for YOU!

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  21. @inertial
    NY Times is right, you know. The "Europeans values" (such as they are) are really threatened by Polish nationalism.

    It's funny. Poland had always been poison to any nation, empire, or alliance that had it - an ultimate booby prize. Now it begins to work its magic on the latest of them, the EU. Next decades will be interesting.

    Oh, if only it could be the white elephant that finally saps the EU of all its power …

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    • Replies: @njguy73

    Oh, if only it could be the white elephant that finally saps the EU of all its power …
     
    The U.S. should make some "friends" in Poland and convince the EU to let those "friends" have positions of influence in the EU, as of way of making Poland feel the EU isn't so bad. Then those Polish friends will run the EU into the ground.

    The Michael Corleone Gambit. Convince your enemy to hire someone you know is a screw-up.
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  22. @The Alarmist
    European Values ... a fine oxymoron.

    The differences between the Western Europeans and Poland (as well as Russia and Greece) on social issues are extraordinary: http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/04/15/global-morality/table/homosexuality/

    Poland is a far away from Germany and Spain on these issues as it from Nigeria and Pakistan.

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    • Replies: @nebulafox
    Plenty of people from former Warsaw Pact states will readily admit that, despite not trusting or liking Russians in general and Putin in particular, they found him far more comprehensible than the official representatives of the West on social issues. State Department policies toward that part of the word have been rather heavy-handed, to say the least.
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  23. If you look at nationalities of terrorists and groomers you can come to the sad conclusion that Eritreans could be an improvement over current stock of elites’ darlings.

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  24. @Peter Akuleyev

    Paradoxically, there is more internal cohesion within Poland because it resists external cohesion.
     
    There is very little internal cohesion in Poland. That is Poland’s eternal tragedy. PiS is undemocratic because they know a solid block of 40% of Poles hate them and will try to reverse everything accomplished the second PiS loses power. From PiS point of view this is a battle for survival, and it is practically a cold civil war. If PiS loses, game over.

    I have spent time in few countries where people dislike, envy and distrust each other as much as Poles do. This seems to be a problem among Europeans in general. The only time we show solidarity is when forced to by an authoritarian government, but Poles are Europeans par excellence, with both the best and worst qualities magnified.

    I have spent time in few countries where people dislike, envy and distrust each other as much as Poles do. This seems to be a problem among Europeans in general. The only time we show solidarity is when forced to by an authoritarian government, but Poles are Europeans par excellence, with both the best and worst qualities magnified.

    Southeastern Europe got some press on that front during the 1990s during the breakup of Yugoslavia. One descriptive phrase from the era: At least his (the neighbor’s) cow died.

    The topic could spin off many related items like the Hajnal Line, Manorialism or Ostsiedlung.

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  25. Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact members of the EU have been net tax consumers from day one. Those nations came into the EU with everyone knowing full well they were less developed and were going to be net tax consumers. Yet Westerners now complain about this and threaten to withhold funds unless Poland and the others comply on migration.

    Well the question I have is why did the Western EU members want to take into their fold a bunch of nations they knew on day one would be net tax consumers? Obviously the EU feels the taxes they pay to subsidize those eastern nations is worth it. Whether it is expanding the market for their domestic companies, or lording over a larger population, they must want those countries pretty badly if they are willing to continue to subsidize them.

    If I were the Visegrad nations, I’d call the EU’s bluff on the subsidies. They need Poland and those other nations more than the other way around. If they didn’t, they never would have taken them in. They could have just as easily negotiated a free trade agreement without the tight integration. But they seem to have wanted the tight integration more than just easy access to those markets.

    If the Western EU members are so hellbent on immigration and running things they way they see fit, then why not dump the weak sisters and just make a multiculti, utopia in Germany, France, Holland and any other like-minded part of Europe? The fact they are not doing this is telling.

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    • Replies: @Anon 2
    Adding Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania,
    Bulgaria, and the Baltic States added an enormous market
    of over 100 million people. Are you aware of all the highways
    and railroad lines, like Via Baltica or Amber Rail, that are
    being constructed, or LNG terminals in Poland and Lithuania
    that have been built? I could mention many such vast engineering
    projects. And more are coming.

    Warsaw, Poland, cannot build skyscrapers fast enough to accomodate
    EU offices, NATO headquarters (one of several), and many banks,
    finance, real estate, and logistics companies that are moving to Poland.
    This is one of many reasons why Poland has such a dynamic economy.
    It grew 4.6% last year. Romania, by the way, grew even faster - at 5.5%
    in 2017.

    The European Union is aware that unless it keeps its present size, it
    cannot possibly compete with the U.S. or China. Should the V4 nations
    be expelled from the EU, China will be more than happy to move in and
    help them, just like it's helping Greece right now, thus reducing Germany
    and France to insignificant vassal states.
    , @Anonymous
    The EU was never about 'trade' or 'prosperity'.

    It was always all about political elites garnering more power for themselves - the ultimate dream was to rival and surpass the USA in wielding power.
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  26. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Paradoxically, there is more internal cohesion within Poland because it resists external cohesion.
     
    There is very little internal cohesion in Poland. That is Poland’s eternal tragedy. PiS is undemocratic because they know a solid block of 40% of Poles hate them and will try to reverse everything accomplished the second PiS loses power. From PiS point of view this is a battle for survival, and it is practically a cold civil war. If PiS loses, game over.

    I have spent time in few countries where people dislike, envy and distrust each other as much as Poles do. This seems to be a problem among Europeans in general. The only time we show solidarity is when forced to by an authoritarian government, but Poles are Europeans par excellence, with both the best and worst qualities magnified.

    That is Poland’s eternal tragedy. PiS is undemocratic because they know a solid block of 40% of Poles hate them and will try to reverse everything accomplished the second PiS loses power.

    My sense is that even anti-PiS Poles are not too crazy about the Merkel Plan.

    Also, 60% support for hardline nationalism is pretty impressive in today’s Europe.

    But even if Poland is divided, it’s due to external influences. Too many Poles feel a need to over-compensate in seeming Western and ‘American’ because they conflate Slavicism with backwardness, Russian-ness, and uncoolness. So, they go out of their way to show the West, “We are more like YOU guys” — the better kind of Slavs.
    This wasn’t a bad attitude when the far more advanced Western Europe was virtually all-white and whiter than Russia, which has Asiatic element. But surely Poles are waking up that France, UK, and Germany are now turning LESS White than even Russia.

    To be sure, there is the ‘black is the new white’ meme in the EU that is premised on both condescending sympathy for blacks and awestruck worship of them. On the one hand, the West looks at blacks and feels sorry for them. Since blacks didn’t have great historical figures, scientists, thinkers, and artist like the West, the thing is boost black pride by showing historical white figures as black. It won’t be long before Shakespeare and Beethoven are presented as blacks. It’s to boost self-esteem among those poor pathetic blacks.

    But there is also the awe of blacks as the real master race since they are good at sports and such rapping-jiving Wakandan studs. So, there is an element of white psyche that feels that since blacks are so naturally superior, they deserve to be gifted with the glories of the West. In other words, Europeans toiled and built all this good stuff to hand over to a god-race.

    Such attitudes exist in many cultures. Among certain indigenous New World tribes, there were myths about how come messianic god-people will arrive one day to whom the people must bow down. Some of these tribes mistook the Europeans as those godlike figures and were willing to serve them. And that was also why so many whites were so foaming-at-the-mouth about Obama.

    Or consider the Romans, the greatest military power of their time. But when members of the Roman elite heard of how some Jewish guy was the Son of God, the entire empire was geared toward worshiping that Jewish man. Even though Romans fought so hard and worked so hard to create this vast empire, all of its glory and power was laid at the feet of a Jewish man mythologized as the Son of the one and only God.

    People work hard to make stuff, but in the end, they don’t worship the things they make. They want to worship something that is greater than themselves. And via the electronic media, especially in this sensual-hedonistic age, a lot of white people have been conditioned to feel that blacks are both the objects of greatest pity and greatest awe, which is a potent combination if we go by the history of Christianity whereJesus was seen as the figure most deserving of sympathy(He got whupped bad and was so helpless at the hands of his tormentors) and deserving of greatest awe(by golly, He is the Son of God). When white folks heard MLK, they heard god. When white folks saw Michael Jordan, they saw an angel defying gravity. When white folks see Oprah, they see earth mother goddess mammy with milk for all of mankind.

    So, the new cult in US and EU is ‘black is the new white’. And discovery of Cheddar Man supposedly proves this case even more. (Btw, if UK should go black because some primitive living 10,000 was black, why shouldn’t it go tribal-warrior since it was run by tribal warriors 1,000 yrs ago?)

    And Poles seem to be divided on this. On the one hand, they are proud of Polishness as a national identity that resisted Nazism and Sovietism. But the other part of Polishness has been the long-running theme that Poles, like Czechs, are a better kind of Slavs who look to the enlightened West than to the backward Oriental-Despotic East or Russia. In other words, Poles are more white than ‘Asiatic’; they are the unslavic Slavs. (This is a theme I’ve heard so many times from Poles in America. It’s like the worst insult is to conflate Polish Slavs with Russian Slavs. What?? “We are CATHOLICS!”)

    But Western Europe is now impugning whiteness and saying that Europe is really about Diversity and blackness. This is turning away lots of Poles as they’ve long prized whiteness.

    But, there is whiteness as race and whiteness as status, which is far more fluid.
    Whiteness as racial essentialism is about people who really are white by blood.
    But ‘whiteness’ as status is more about having the right kind of attitude in tune with the most privileged whites.

    The status-ist concept of whiteness is predicated on the notion that whiteness is more progressive, more evolved, and more ahead of the game over rest of society. This is why the homomania stuff was so addictive to white elites. With the rest of the world catching up with democracy, technology, and modernity, there was nothing to set the White world apart from others. So, even as white progs called for diversity and ‘inclusion’ with non-whites, they still wanted something to make them feel more advanced than others.
    Since most of the world was anti-homo, being homomanical really set the West from the Rest, and it gave the white world something to feel morally superior about and go into missionary mode to spread the faith to the benighted ‘less evolved’ fools around the world. Homomania restored white pride of status if not white pride of race.

    When Christianity was essentially a white religion, it made whites feel superior to others. Though there was never an official covenant between Christianity and the white race, it sort of felt as though there was one since the rise of Christianity was so closely tied to Europe, especially as Near East and North Africa came under Muslim rule. But today, you’re likely to find more Christians in Africa and Asia than in the West. It’s no longer a white thing. Also, given that Western ‘values’ have veered so much away from traditional Christian values, Christianity in the non-West now stand as an obstacle to globalism.

    Anyway, ‘whiteness’ as status is malleable and fluid, just like ‘European values’ has multiple meanings. It could mean the values of real Europeans, or it could mean the values that should be imposed on Europeans by globalism. Since the Power decides, current ‘European’ values are fluid than essential. Both ‘European’ and ‘values’ can mean just about anything to further globalism. So, even if an Italian town is totally remade into an Afro-Islamic community, it is the triumph of ‘European values’ since Africans and Muslims can be constituted as ‘new Europeans’ on the basis of ‘European values’ of ‘inclusion’ and ‘diversity’.

    So, while Poles who are into essential whiteness of race/culture are likely to be appalled by the new Western Europe, Poles who are into the fluid ‘whiteness’ of status are likely to follow the latest trends of globalist whites.
    After all, status-climbing is about following and imitating the most successful and powerful people. And even now, the most successful and powerful whites are in the West, and they are the ones who are pushing ‘diversity’ and ‘inclusion’. So, even as that kind of ‘whiteness’ is actually a war on the white race, it is the whiteness of success, money, and status.

    And Poles who aspire to be approved and accepted by such winner-whites are likely to go with ‘black is the new white’ because it is the chic prevailing mindset among the most powerful and successful whites. In contrast, whiteness as essentialist defense of race is associated with third-rate loser nations like Hungary and the Polish working class.

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  27. @Peter Akuleyev

    Paradoxically, there is more internal cohesion within Poland because it resists external cohesion.
     
    There is very little internal cohesion in Poland. That is Poland’s eternal tragedy. PiS is undemocratic because they know a solid block of 40% of Poles hate them and will try to reverse everything accomplished the second PiS loses power. From PiS point of view this is a battle for survival, and it is practically a cold civil war. If PiS loses, game over.

    I have spent time in few countries where people dislike, envy and distrust each other as much as Poles do. This seems to be a problem among Europeans in general. The only time we show solidarity is when forced to by an authoritarian government, but Poles are Europeans par excellence, with both the best and worst qualities magnified.

    There is very little internal cohesion in Poland.

    There is very little internal cohesion in the USA too.

    This seems to be a problem among Europeans in general.

    There is a sort of cold, civil war ongoing among European peoples worldwide. There might be something particular in Poland related to their history, but among Europeans from North America to Europe and Oceania, there is a bitter divide. You have whites on one side who are largely globalist, secular and ashamed of their past. On the others side you have whites who support their particular nations’ borders, Christianity (whether believers or not) and are proud of the accomplishments of European peoples.

    There have been some hot flare-ups, such as the Brevik incident, but so far it is largely a cold war. One wonders how much longer this will continue.

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad


    There is a sort of cold, civil war ongoing among European peoples worldwide. There might be something particular in Poland related to their history, but among Europeans from North America to Europe and Oceania, there is a bitter divide. You have whites on one side who are largely globalist, secular and ashamed of their past. On the others side you have whites who support their particular nations’ borders, Christianity (whether believers or not) and are proud of the accomplishments of European peoples.
     
    Excellent comment/paragraph istevefan. I'd give you props for the "cold civil war" bit except I've heard Derbyshire use it repeatedly. (It's a terrific phrase.)

    I'll throw in that i think the majority of whites are by nature and belief on the side of the angels. However, most white folks are good thinking and haven't really woken up to the sheer magnitude of what's being done--how abjectly evil and destructive the globalists really are. That's where our work is.
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  28. @Anon
    Poland, the nasty nation that defied and resisted Russian imperialist cohesion, Nazi imperialist cohesion, Soviet imperialist cohesion, and EU globo-imperialist cohesion.

    All empires want their subjects to cohere to the Narrative and Agenda.

    Nasty Polacks just won't cohere to the Program.

    Paradoxically, there is more internal cohesion within Poland because it resists external cohesion.

    If a nation coheres to external coercion, there is less cohesion within the nation.

    If a nation coheres to internal consensus, there is less cohesion with the empire.

    In a sane world, there would be no more empires, and sovereign nations will respect each other's borders and laws. But for Poland, from the frying pan into the fire once again.

    EU that began as a project of unity within Europe turned into a unity with America and Africa.

    EU is a mini-empire that is now a part of a bigger empire. It can no longer be about unity among European nations but unity with non-European nations.
    EU must cohere to Africa, Middle East, and globo-US.
    THAT is 'European values'. To turn Tuscany into Afro-Islamic world under pressure from Jews.

    Paradoxically, there is more internal cohesion within Poland because it resists external cohesion.

    Sorry to repost… Even Bryan Caplan argues that ethnic diversity undermines national soliditarity/cohesion but that is a feature not a bug in that it cohesion is an obstacle to free market reforms.

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  29. @inertial
    NY Times is right, you know. The "Europeans values" (such as they are) are really threatened by Polish nationalism.

    It's funny. Poland had always been poison to any nation, empire, or alliance that had it - an ultimate booby prize. Now it begins to work its magic on the latest of them, the EU. Next decades will be interesting.

    Wait that Serbia joins in, then Union can learns some new Principles.

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  30. Anybody else here read The Onion’s “Our Dumb Century”? The 1939 headline reads, “Hitler Neutralizes Polish Menace: Europe Relieved as Heroic Germans Lift Grim Specter of Polish Tyranny from Continent”. It’s not too different from the NYT headline.

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  31. @Chris from Gresham
    Back in the late 80s and early 90s, being newly divorced and needing the money, on the side I did a lot of carpentry remodel work for a friend of mine who at the time was a bit of a slum lord. In about 91 or 2, shortly after the Eritreans won their independence from Ethiopia, my friend's apartment building in Portland filled with Eritreans, I always wondered why they didn't stay once they won their independence (the commies must have ascended to the leadership in the ensuing political vacuum there). However, I was struck by their intelligence (one was a former air force officer and pilot), their orthodox Christianity, and for Africans, their fine features and high cheekbones. One of the women was working as a model somewhere in town, and was quite beautiful.

    While remodeling their low-rent kitchen I used to have great discussions with the former air force officer who spoke nearly perfect English, and who was very snobbish about being Eritrean, not Ethiopian.

    On those occasions where only his young wife was home and I was there working in their apartment, all the old Eritrean ladies would come downstairs and stay in the apartment until I was finished for the day, and of course she would have to wait on them hand and foot the whole time. None of the women ever talked to me.

    Europe could do worse than Eritreans.

    I know nothing of Eritrea but, despite the extent to which many Eritreans consider themselves distinct from Ethiopians, they are essentially brother-ethnicities, and the most famous Ethiopian in the US is the rapper Weeknd, who seems to have fully assimilated into some of the worse aspects including gratuitous use of the n-word [I would write the word if I didn't fear Sailer memoryholing my comment for it].

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    • Replies: @riches
    You were right to blue-pencil the n-word, likewise the never seen k-word, for fear of not making the cut.

    The only ethnic slur that passes muster here is the ack suffix applied to Poles. In fact, some schlep used it earlier in this comment thread.
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  32. Where would it be safer to walk down the street wearing a yarmulke?

    Warsaw or Berlin?

    And as for Paris …

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    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    Where would it be safer to walk down the street...period?
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  33. I think that Poland should respond to the PC pressure by rethinking its views on Russia, something quite difficult because the animus goes back a long way historically. Poland does have an open frontier with Belarus, and, should they decide to exit the EU in response to the unelected Brussels power structure intervening in their affiars, Poland could cut a deal with the China based one Belt one Road initiative. This would also open things up for central European countries such as Slovakia, Hungary, Austria and the Czech republic to exit the neoliberal multiculti dictatorship the unelected eurocrat deputies of what is in the end yankee dominance, are trying to affix. This would simplify the situation for all and reduce tension by making it harder for NATO to beat the war drums. The Poles should get real and recognize that their cultural similarities with Russians, Belorussians, Czechs, Hungarians and other Central and Eastern Europeans are greater than their links to yankeedom across the sea. The should recognize that the real nihilist danger of full spectrum yankee dominance is a greater threat than dealing with the Russians, who gave up their pretence of world conquest long ago.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Not likely to happen as long as the top guy in Poland suspects that Putin murdered his identical twin brother.
    , @James N. Kennett
    Don't underestimate the magnitude of the Catholic/Orthodox divide.
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  34. @exiled off mainstreet
    I think that Poland should respond to the PC pressure by rethinking its views on Russia, something quite difficult because the animus goes back a long way historically. Poland does have an open frontier with Belarus, and, should they decide to exit the EU in response to the unelected Brussels power structure intervening in their affiars, Poland could cut a deal with the China based one Belt one Road initiative. This would also open things up for central European countries such as Slovakia, Hungary, Austria and the Czech republic to exit the neoliberal multiculti dictatorship the unelected eurocrat deputies of what is in the end yankee dominance, are trying to affix. This would simplify the situation for all and reduce tension by making it harder for NATO to beat the war drums. The Poles should get real and recognize that their cultural similarities with Russians, Belorussians, Czechs, Hungarians and other Central and Eastern Europeans are greater than their links to yankeedom across the sea. The should recognize that the real nihilist danger of full spectrum yankee dominance is a greater threat than dealing with the Russians, who gave up their pretence of world conquest long ago.

    Not likely to happen as long as the top guy in Poland suspects that Putin murdered his identical twin brother.

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    • Agree: utu
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  35. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    a union of nation states trading freely with one another but not interfering in domestic politics or national culture.
     
    The horror! The horror!

    The recent squabble over Poland’s new law about history and the Holocaust is another example of the government offending Western European sensibilities about free speech for domestic gain.

     

    Right, Western European countries just love free speech. Can't get enough of open debate about immigration and Muslim crime statistics.

    But more than money, Law and Justice thrives on cultural and identity politics. It has contrasted a conservative, Catholic Poland and its family values with a godless, freethinking, gender-bending Western Europe.

    It accuses past governments, the opposition and the urban elites, of hankering after European approval and acceptance to the detriment of Polish interests.

     

    Gosh, I wonder where Law and Justice got that idea from? It's almost as though they have functioning eyeballs or something. Elites in every country in Western Europe, the U.S., Canada and Australia has sold their own people down the river for money and the right to morally preen. Maybe the Polish elite will choose their people people over fawning DB elites from other countries. We'll see.

    a union of nation states trading freely with one another but not interfering in domestic politics or national culture.

    The horror! The horror!

    Seems like even i can remember when “progressives” were in favor of “national self-determination”. Anyone else?

    If i recall that was (in essence) one of Wilson’s 14 points and why his speech was wildly popular around the world. But apparently the people in charge of “progress” now, don’t like nations very much … find them kind of icky.

    Now “progressive” means “believe what we believe about ‘transgender’ bathroom policy right now or you’re subject to drone strike from central command!”

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    • Replies: @Hibernian
    It's questionable if Wilson really meant it.
    , @James N. Kennett
    With the unwinding of national self-determination, the map of Europe looks more like that of 1914 than those of 1918 to 1950. In place of the German and Austrian Empires, we have the EU in the West; in the East, in place of the Russian Empire, we have the "Union State" of Russia and Belarus, and Ukraine - still in the Russian orbit, but being fought over.

    It's as if the EU's loudly proclaimed project to avoid another WW2 has achieved its aim, by recreating the conditions that produced WW1.
    , @Frau Katze
    Yep, I remember those days. We learned about them in school.

    More years ago than I care to contemplate.

    But the elites really did accomplish heating the water so slowly many of us didn’t notice. As others have noted, it took a while to completely take over the schools, universities, media and so on.

    Now the water is unbearably hot...yet even so, some don’t notice.
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  36. @istevefan

    There is very little internal cohesion in Poland.
     
    There is very little internal cohesion in the USA too.


    This seems to be a problem among Europeans in general.
     
    There is a sort of cold, civil war ongoing among European peoples worldwide. There might be something particular in Poland related to their history, but among Europeans from North America to Europe and Oceania, there is a bitter divide. You have whites on one side who are largely globalist, secular and ashamed of their past. On the others side you have whites who support their particular nations' borders, Christianity (whether believers or not) and are proud of the accomplishments of European peoples.

    There have been some hot flare-ups, such as the Brevik incident, but so far it is largely a cold war. One wonders how much longer this will continue.

    There is a sort of cold, civil war ongoing among European peoples worldwide. There might be something particular in Poland related to their history, but among Europeans from North America to Europe and Oceania, there is a bitter divide. You have whites on one side who are largely globalist, secular and ashamed of their past. On the others side you have whites who support their particular nations’ borders, Christianity (whether believers or not) and are proud of the accomplishments of European peoples.

    Excellent comment/paragraph istevefan. I’d give you props for the “cold civil war” bit except I’ve heard Derbyshire use it repeatedly. (It’s a terrific phrase.)

    I’ll throw in that i think the majority of whites are by nature and belief on the side of the angels. However, most white folks are good thinking and haven’t really woken up to the sheer magnitude of what’s being done–how abjectly evil and destructive the globalists really are. That’s where our work is.

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    • Replies: @istevefan

    I’ll throw in that i think the majority of whites are by nature and belief on the side of the angels. However, most white folks are good thinking and haven’t really woken up to the sheer magnitude of what’s being done–how abjectly evil and destructive the globalists really are. That’s where our work is.
     
    In America whites on our side are winning. That is if you just include the white population. We know we can expect to get 58 to 60 percent of the vote. However, nonwhites have chosen to ally themselves in this civil war with the "other" whites. Those mercenary voters have kept those "other" whites' political views viable, and they threaten to turn the tide on us if, a) their numbers continue to increase, and b) such a high percentage of whites, nearly 40%, continue to vote against their interests.

    I don't know the facts in other nations. But I suspect Labour in the UK brought in those immigrants for a reason. I think there was a memo from some Labour official bragging about that.
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  37. @Tiny Duck
    Poland has a long history of anti - semitism, which is why few Jews remain in Poland. That is the traditional culture the Poles are seeking to maintain. Poland respects other religions, so long as those religions are certain branches of Christianity. Otherwise, the Poles are mired in their hatred of other peoples.

    The problem is the catholic church

    Poland needs to be cut loose from the EU gravy train if they're going to continue their drift towards authoritarian governance!
    The hand of putin is all over this and soon Poland will be once again be devoured by the the Russian bear!

    Can’t have it both ways Poland. EU, time to cut off the gravy train.

    A pity. Sounds like they may have cut off your medication, TD.

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  38. @AnotherDad


    There is a sort of cold, civil war ongoing among European peoples worldwide. There might be something particular in Poland related to their history, but among Europeans from North America to Europe and Oceania, there is a bitter divide. You have whites on one side who are largely globalist, secular and ashamed of their past. On the others side you have whites who support their particular nations’ borders, Christianity (whether believers or not) and are proud of the accomplishments of European peoples.
     
    Excellent comment/paragraph istevefan. I'd give you props for the "cold civil war" bit except I've heard Derbyshire use it repeatedly. (It's a terrific phrase.)

    I'll throw in that i think the majority of whites are by nature and belief on the side of the angels. However, most white folks are good thinking and haven't really woken up to the sheer magnitude of what's being done--how abjectly evil and destructive the globalists really are. That's where our work is.

    I’ll throw in that i think the majority of whites are by nature and belief on the side of the angels. However, most white folks are good thinking and haven’t really woken up to the sheer magnitude of what’s being done–how abjectly evil and destructive the globalists really are. That’s where our work is.

    In America whites on our side are winning. That is if you just include the white population. We know we can expect to get 58 to 60 percent of the vote. However, nonwhites have chosen to ally themselves in this civil war with the “other” whites. Those mercenary voters have kept those “other” whites’ political views viable, and they threaten to turn the tide on us if, a) their numbers continue to increase, and b) such a high percentage of whites, nearly 40%, continue to vote against their interests.

    I don’t know the facts in other nations. But I suspect Labour in the UK brought in those immigrants for a reason. I think there was a memo from some Labour official bragging about that.

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  39. @AnotherDad


    a union of nation states trading freely with one another but not interfering in domestic politics or national culture.
     
    The horror! The horror!
     
    Seems like even i can remember when "progressives" were in favor of "national self-determination". Anyone else?

    If i recall that was (in essence) one of Wilson's 14 points and why his speech was wildly popular around the world. But apparently the people in charge of "progress" now, don't like nations very much ... find them kind of icky.

    Now "progressive" means "believe what we believe about 'transgender' bathroom policy right now or you're subject to drone strike from central command!"

    It’s questionable if Wilson really meant it.

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  40. @The Millennial Falcon
    The differences between the Western Europeans and Poland (as well as Russia and Greece) on social issues are extraordinary: http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/04/15/global-morality/table/homosexuality/

    Poland is a far away from Germany and Spain on these issues as it from Nigeria and Pakistan.

    Plenty of people from former Warsaw Pact states will readily admit that, despite not trusting or liking Russians in general and Putin in particular, they found him far more comprehensible than the official representatives of the West on social issues. State Department policies toward that part of the word have been rather heavy-handed, to say the least.

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  41. @AnotherDad


    a union of nation states trading freely with one another but not interfering in domestic politics or national culture.
     
    The horror! The horror!
     
    Seems like even i can remember when "progressives" were in favor of "national self-determination". Anyone else?

    If i recall that was (in essence) one of Wilson's 14 points and why his speech was wildly popular around the world. But apparently the people in charge of "progress" now, don't like nations very much ... find them kind of icky.

    Now "progressive" means "believe what we believe about 'transgender' bathroom policy right now or you're subject to drone strike from central command!"

    With the unwinding of national self-determination, the map of Europe looks more like that of 1914 than those of 1918 to 1950. In place of the German and Austrian Empires, we have the EU in the West; in the East, in place of the Russian Empire, we have the “Union State” of Russia and Belarus, and Ukraine – still in the Russian orbit, but being fought over.

    It’s as if the EU’s loudly proclaimed project to avoid another WW2 has achieved its aim, by recreating the conditions that produced WW1.

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  42. @exiled off mainstreet
    I think that Poland should respond to the PC pressure by rethinking its views on Russia, something quite difficult because the animus goes back a long way historically. Poland does have an open frontier with Belarus, and, should they decide to exit the EU in response to the unelected Brussels power structure intervening in their affiars, Poland could cut a deal with the China based one Belt one Road initiative. This would also open things up for central European countries such as Slovakia, Hungary, Austria and the Czech republic to exit the neoliberal multiculti dictatorship the unelected eurocrat deputies of what is in the end yankee dominance, are trying to affix. This would simplify the situation for all and reduce tension by making it harder for NATO to beat the war drums. The Poles should get real and recognize that their cultural similarities with Russians, Belorussians, Czechs, Hungarians and other Central and Eastern Europeans are greater than their links to yankeedom across the sea. The should recognize that the real nihilist danger of full spectrum yankee dominance is a greater threat than dealing with the Russians, who gave up their pretence of world conquest long ago.

    Don’t underestimate the magnitude of the Catholic/Orthodox divide.

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  43. @Joe Magarac
    Where would it be safer to walk down the street wearing a yarmulke?

    Warsaw or Berlin?

    And as for Paris ...

    Where would it be safer to walk down the street…period?

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  44. @inertial
    NY Times is right, you know. The "Europeans values" (such as they are) are really threatened by Polish nationalism.

    It's funny. Poland had always been poison to any nation, empire, or alliance that had it - an ultimate booby prize. Now it begins to work its magic on the latest of them, the EU. Next decades will be interesting.

    “Poland had always been poison to any nation”

    Poland has a glorious past. For about 250 years as the Polish-Lithuanian
    Commonwealth (but dominated by the Polish language and culture) it
    was the largest country in Europe. The Commonwealth which existed
    until 1795 (Third Partition) was a highly decentralized federal republic,
    in many ways a forerunner of the United States in that it had freedom
    of religion, habeas corpus, 15% of the population was eligible to vote
    in 1600 ( much more than in Western Europe), and accepted refugees
    and dissidents from all over Europe at the time when the West Europeans
    were butchering each other during the Religious Wars following the Protestant
    Reformation. Poland only began to go into decline after 800 years of
    existence, until the First Partition of 1772, initiated by two Germans -
    Frederick of Prussia and Catherine II of Russia – accelerated the
    movement toward loss of independence. Poland was regarded as too
    leftist, too libertine, too much like revolutionary France, and therefore
    a clear danger to the entrenched status quo in Prussia and Russia.

    Many historians believe that the Partitions of Poland led directly to WW I
    and to the Bolshevik Revolution. Peace in Europe was tenable as long as
    Poland separated Germany and Russia. In the absence of such a buffer
    state it didn’t take long before Germany and Russia went at each other
    with bared fangs.

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  45. @Chris from Gresham
    Back in the late 80s and early 90s, being newly divorced and needing the money, on the side I did a lot of carpentry remodel work for a friend of mine who at the time was a bit of a slum lord. In about 91 or 2, shortly after the Eritreans won their independence from Ethiopia, my friend's apartment building in Portland filled with Eritreans, I always wondered why they didn't stay once they won their independence (the commies must have ascended to the leadership in the ensuing political vacuum there). However, I was struck by their intelligence (one was a former air force officer and pilot), their orthodox Christianity, and for Africans, their fine features and high cheekbones. One of the women was working as a model somewhere in town, and was quite beautiful.

    While remodeling their low-rent kitchen I used to have great discussions with the former air force officer who spoke nearly perfect English, and who was very snobbish about being Eritrean, not Ethiopian.

    On those occasions where only his young wife was home and I was there working in their apartment, all the old Eritrean ladies would come downstairs and stay in the apartment until I was finished for the day, and of course she would have to wait on them hand and foot the whole time. None of the women ever talked to me.

    Europe could do worse than Eritreans.

    Europe could do worse than Eritreans.

    They could do better than Eritreans too……………..by admitting nobody.

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  46. @Alfa158
    Like you, I also found it amusing that the NYT found it necessary to throw in the seemingly irrelevant bit about Sniadowo being 40% Jewish before WW2 . Despite anti-semitism Poland had millions of Jews up until one of Merkel’s predecessors as Chancellor embarked on his 1939 program for European Union. I wonder if the author of this piece is slyly making a signal that is subversive to the NYT dogma? I have read that there are still journalists at the Times who are unhappy about how batshit crazy the editorial staff is.

    From its inception in the late 800s, Poland was known as
    Paradisus Iudaeorum (Jewish Paradise) because unlike in
    Western Europe where the Jews were periodically butchered
    (esp. in the German states) and confined to urban ghettoes,
    in Poland the Jews were free to live where they wanted and
    were given more privileges than the Polish population itself (no
    doubt inspiring resentment). The Jews were finally expelled
    from Western European countries, sometimes repeatedly,
    over issues such as usury, etc. until very few were left. By 1550
    about 90% of the world’s Ashkenazi Jews lived in the Polish-
    Lithuanian Commonwealth, i.e., they were subjects of the
    Polish king. In Poland they had so much freedom, partly because
    of the permissive and decentralized Polish governance, that
    they basically created a country within a country, with their own
    schools, courts, and taxation system. They spoke Yiddish, and
    rarely learned to speak the local language well, which added to
    the resentment.

    In the 1930s 10% of Poland’s population was Jewish, about 3.5 million,
    by far much larger percentage than in the Soviet Union or Germany. Imagine
    the United States with 35 million Jews instead of the current 5-6 million. Clearly,
    there would be many more opportunities for friction between the Jews and
    the Christians.

    What was remembered in the 1930s Poland was that (1) Jewish leaders during
    WW I and at the Versailles Peace Conference were vehemently opposed to
    Poland regaining independence ;(2) Many Jews prior to WW I refused to learn
    Polish. For example, Isaac Bashevis Singer spoke Polish poorly and wrote his
    books in Yiddish even though he was born and raised in Poland.

    But what really created tension between the Polish Christians and Polish Jews
    in the 1920s-’30s was the fact that so many Jews, esp. among the urban
    intelligentsia, were Communist sympathizers, i.e., they subscribed to
    a “godless doctrine” developed by a German (though of Jewish origin),
    not something that would endear them to the majority population. What’s
    even worse, those Communist sympathizers among the Jews were thought
    to have contacts in the Soviet Union which was then seen as the giant
    Communist menace in the East, contributing to the popularity of Hitler.
    Poland being next door knew exactly what was going in the Soviet Union
    in the 1930s – the level of Stalinist butchery was unprecedented in modern
    European history, starting with Holodomor, etc

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    • Replies: @Jon Halpenny
    The Communist government of post-war Poland had many Jews in its highest echelons
    , @Jack D
    This is a highly one-sided view of Polish-Jewish history needless to say. If (as I am guessing) Anon 2 is Polish and this is what he is being taught in school, then you can see the problem right there.

    The "Jews = Bolsheviks" sleight of hand was popularized by the Nazis. Only a tiny % of Polish Jews were Communists and anti-Semitic Poles hated Jews because they were Jews, not because they were Communists. Before they hated them for being Communists they hated them for killing Jesus.

    If Poles really wanted Jews to integrate and learn the Polish language you would have thought that they would have encouraged them to attend Polish universities. Instead, they insisted that the Jews attending university sit separately on "ghetto benches" and disrupted classes until segregation was imposed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto_benches
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  47. @Peter Akuleyev

    Paradoxically, there is more internal cohesion within Poland because it resists external cohesion.
     
    There is very little internal cohesion in Poland. That is Poland’s eternal tragedy. PiS is undemocratic because they know a solid block of 40% of Poles hate them and will try to reverse everything accomplished the second PiS loses power. From PiS point of view this is a battle for survival, and it is practically a cold civil war. If PiS loses, game over.

    I have spent time in few countries where people dislike, envy and distrust each other as much as Poles do. This seems to be a problem among Europeans in general. The only time we show solidarity is when forced to by an authoritarian government, but Poles are Europeans par excellence, with both the best and worst qualities magnified.

    “There is little internal cohesion in Poland”

    And yet, compared to Russia, Poland has extremely low levels
    of social dysfunction. It has a very low divorce rate; extremely
    low homicide rate – much lower than Russia or the United States;
    extremely low abortion rates, HIV infection rates, and drug addiction
    rates. Its rate of alcohol consumption is about the same as that
    in the United States, and much lower than in Russia, Czechia, Germany
    or France. Poles like to complain but by all metrics Poland is currently
    thriving, and wants to keep it that way.

    From Poland’s point of view, Germany and France have lost their
    élan vital (vital force) or will to live, whereas Poland is enjoying
    its relative independence (since 1989) after ceasing to exist as an
    independent country for almost 200 years (from the last partition
    in 1795 to the overthrow of Communism in 1989).

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Interwar Poland (1918-39) was not an independent country? Is that what they teach you?
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  48. @istevefan
    Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact members of the EU have been net tax consumers from day one. Those nations came into the EU with everyone knowing full well they were less developed and were going to be net tax consumers. Yet Westerners now complain about this and threaten to withhold funds unless Poland and the others comply on migration.

    Well the question I have is why did the Western EU members want to take into their fold a bunch of nations they knew on day one would be net tax consumers? Obviously the EU feels the taxes they pay to subsidize those eastern nations is worth it. Whether it is expanding the market for their domestic companies, or lording over a larger population, they must want those countries pretty badly if they are willing to continue to subsidize them.

    If I were the Visegrad nations, I'd call the EU's bluff on the subsidies. They need Poland and those other nations more than the other way around. If they didn't, they never would have taken them in. They could have just as easily negotiated a free trade agreement without the tight integration. But they seem to have wanted the tight integration more than just easy access to those markets.

    If the Western EU members are so hellbent on immigration and running things they way they see fit, then why not dump the weak sisters and just make a multiculti, utopia in Germany, France, Holland and any other like-minded part of Europe? The fact they are not doing this is telling.

    Adding Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania,
    Bulgaria, and the Baltic States added an enormous market
    of over 100 million people. Are you aware of all the highways
    and railroad lines, like Via Baltica or Amber Rail, that are
    being constructed, or LNG terminals in Poland and Lithuania
    that have been built? I could mention many such vast engineering
    projects. And more are coming.

    Warsaw, Poland, cannot build skyscrapers fast enough to accomodate
    EU offices, NATO headquarters (one of several), and many banks,
    finance, real estate, and logistics companies that are moving to Poland.
    This is one of many reasons why Poland has such a dynamic economy.
    It grew 4.6% last year. Romania, by the way, grew even faster – at 5.5%
    in 2017.

    The European Union is aware that unless it keeps its present size, it
    cannot possibly compete with the U.S. or China. Should the V4 nations
    be expelled from the EU, China will be more than happy to move in and
    help them, just like it’s helping Greece right now, thus reducing Germany
    and France to insignificant vassal states.

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    • Replies: @istevefan
    If all of what you write is true, then those poorer nations should demand more EU funds plus reject any migrants. It sounds like the EU could ill afford to lose them.
    , @Jack D
    The EU is basically a racket by big German corporations. You use German taxpayer money to buy heavy equipment from German manufacturers to build highways so people can buy German cars to drive on them using the German money (Euros) they made building the highways.
    , @David Davenport
    "Are you aware of all the highways
    and railroad lines, like Via Baltica or Amber Rail, that are
    being constructed, or LNG terminals in Poland and Lithuania
    that have been built?"

    Are those Liquefied Natural Gas terminals advertised to be for export of Russian LNG, or import of North American LNG?

    American and Canadian natural gas producers plan to sell LNG to Europe at prices lower than Russian natural gas suppliers will offer. ... Bad news for the Russian economy.

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  49. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    So, the way to ‘threaten’ ‘European cohesion’ is by trying to keep Europe ethnically European.

    I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

    It’s as obviously as asbsurd as trying to argue that black is white. Literally, in this case.

    Remember: Brexit was all about extricating the UK from this shit.

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  50. @Anon 2
    Adding Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania,
    Bulgaria, and the Baltic States added an enormous market
    of over 100 million people. Are you aware of all the highways
    and railroad lines, like Via Baltica or Amber Rail, that are
    being constructed, or LNG terminals in Poland and Lithuania
    that have been built? I could mention many such vast engineering
    projects. And more are coming.

    Warsaw, Poland, cannot build skyscrapers fast enough to accomodate
    EU offices, NATO headquarters (one of several), and many banks,
    finance, real estate, and logistics companies that are moving to Poland.
    This is one of many reasons why Poland has such a dynamic economy.
    It grew 4.6% last year. Romania, by the way, grew even faster - at 5.5%
    in 2017.

    The European Union is aware that unless it keeps its present size, it
    cannot possibly compete with the U.S. or China. Should the V4 nations
    be expelled from the EU, China will be more than happy to move in and
    help them, just like it's helping Greece right now, thus reducing Germany
    and France to insignificant vassal states.

    If all of what you write is true, then those poorer nations should demand more EU funds plus reject any migrants. It sounds like the EU could ill afford to lose them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Eastern countries to EU: "You had better knock it off or we won't accept your massive aid anymore and will rely on Chinese aid instead!"
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  51. @istevefan
    Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact members of the EU have been net tax consumers from day one. Those nations came into the EU with everyone knowing full well they were less developed and were going to be net tax consumers. Yet Westerners now complain about this and threaten to withhold funds unless Poland and the others comply on migration.

    Well the question I have is why did the Western EU members want to take into their fold a bunch of nations they knew on day one would be net tax consumers? Obviously the EU feels the taxes they pay to subsidize those eastern nations is worth it. Whether it is expanding the market for their domestic companies, or lording over a larger population, they must want those countries pretty badly if they are willing to continue to subsidize them.

    If I were the Visegrad nations, I'd call the EU's bluff on the subsidies. They need Poland and those other nations more than the other way around. If they didn't, they never would have taken them in. They could have just as easily negotiated a free trade agreement without the tight integration. But they seem to have wanted the tight integration more than just easy access to those markets.

    If the Western EU members are so hellbent on immigration and running things they way they see fit, then why not dump the weak sisters and just make a multiculti, utopia in Germany, France, Holland and any other like-minded part of Europe? The fact they are not doing this is telling.

    The EU was never about ‘trade’ or ‘prosperity’.

    It was always all about political elites garnering more power for themselves – the ultimate dream was to rival and surpass the USA in wielding power.

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  52. @Anon 2
    From its inception in the late 800s, Poland was known as
    Paradisus Iudaeorum (Jewish Paradise) because unlike in
    Western Europe where the Jews were periodically butchered
    (esp. in the German states) and confined to urban ghettoes,
    in Poland the Jews were free to live where they wanted and
    were given more privileges than the Polish population itself (no
    doubt inspiring resentment). The Jews were finally expelled
    from Western European countries, sometimes repeatedly,
    over issues such as usury, etc. until very few were left. By 1550
    about 90% of the world's Ashkenazi Jews lived in the Polish-
    Lithuanian Commonwealth, i.e., they were subjects of the
    Polish king. In Poland they had so much freedom, partly because
    of the permissive and decentralized Polish governance, that
    they basically created a country within a country, with their own
    schools, courts, and taxation system. They spoke Yiddish, and
    rarely learned to speak the local language well, which added to
    the resentment.

    In the 1930s 10% of Poland's population was Jewish, about 3.5 million,
    by far much larger percentage than in the Soviet Union or Germany. Imagine
    the United States with 35 million Jews instead of the current 5-6 million. Clearly,
    there would be many more opportunities for friction between the Jews and
    the Christians.

    What was remembered in the 1930s Poland was that (1) Jewish leaders during
    WW I and at the Versailles Peace Conference were vehemently opposed to
    Poland regaining independence ;(2) Many Jews prior to WW I refused to learn
    Polish. For example, Isaac Bashevis Singer spoke Polish poorly and wrote his
    books in Yiddish even though he was born and raised in Poland.

    But what really created tension between the Polish Christians and Polish Jews
    in the 1920s-'30s was the fact that so many Jews, esp. among the urban
    intelligentsia, were Communist sympathizers, i.e., they subscribed to
    a "godless doctrine" developed by a German (though of Jewish origin),
    not something that would endear them to the majority population. What's
    even worse, those Communist sympathizers among the Jews were thought
    to have contacts in the Soviet Union which was then seen as the giant
    Communist menace in the East, contributing to the popularity of Hitler.
    Poland being next door knew exactly what was going in the Soviet Union
    in the 1930s - the level of Stalinist butchery was unprecedented in modern
    European history, starting with Holodomor, etc

    The Communist government of post-war Poland had many Jews in its highest echelons

    Read More
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  53. Cause if there’s no country in the EU with massive cultural influence it’s Poland, you can’t stop the young people in Paris, Berlin and London from discussing Polish political and social philosophy and everyone in Europe always thinks about ‘What will Poland think about this?!’, ‘What will they do?!’.

    Literally nobody in countries that don’t directly border Poland ever give the country much thought, let alone the social or political Zeitgeist there.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon 2
    "Nobody except its neighbors gives Poland much thought"

    Really? And yet Ryszard Legutko's latest book, " The Demon in Democracy - Totalitarian
    Temptations in Free Societies" (2016) has become a worldwide bestseller. Legutko is
    a Polish political philosopher and member of the European Parliament.

    Poland is now developing ballistic missiles (in conjunction with Ukraine) and may
    acquire nuclear weapons

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  54. Of course, the NYT will never mention the genuine role of Poland in the disillusion of the EU in terms of mass migration to the UK with Poland being the source of the plurality of that, being the primary reason for Brexit.

    Not mentioned either will be the enthusiasm that the NYTs and others had for the expansion of the EU into the former Warsaw Pact, in part hoping to dilute a more Gaullist foreign policy and otherwise influence the EU through ‘New Europe’ in an attempt to get the EU to have a more antagonistic relationship to Russia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon 2
    Brexit was primarily about Britain saying "No" to being under
    Germany's thumb. The Brits effectively said, "We won the war!
    The Krauts have no business telling us how to live our lives."
    The immigration from the EU was secondary as an issue.
    The immigration from Africa and Asia was a much bigger issue
    but the Brits were, of course, tight-lipped about it.
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  55. “It is not a simple clash, but a multibannered one of identity, history, values, religion and interpretations of democracy and ‘solidarity.’”

    The key phrase in this piece of idiocy masquerading as a serious sentence is “interpretations of democracy.” The way the NYT interprets “democracy” is unconditional surrender by the white, post-Christian west to members of the “victim”-classes that are now in exponential growth mode. At least some of the Poles recognize how much the EU elites really despise them. To get a good sense of what the NYT hacks understand as “multibannered” in miniature, look at what happened to the Catholic Poles in Hamtramck, Michigan.

    http://fosterspeak.blogspot.com/2017/12/islamophobobia-and-destruction-of.html

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  56. Ohhhh, so this is why the Jews on Breitbart and other sites have been attacking Poland. But there’s no pattern. The Jews don’t network to destroy Christian societies…….riiiggghht.

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  57. @Anon 2
    From its inception in the late 800s, Poland was known as
    Paradisus Iudaeorum (Jewish Paradise) because unlike in
    Western Europe where the Jews were periodically butchered
    (esp. in the German states) and confined to urban ghettoes,
    in Poland the Jews were free to live where they wanted and
    were given more privileges than the Polish population itself (no
    doubt inspiring resentment). The Jews were finally expelled
    from Western European countries, sometimes repeatedly,
    over issues such as usury, etc. until very few were left. By 1550
    about 90% of the world's Ashkenazi Jews lived in the Polish-
    Lithuanian Commonwealth, i.e., they were subjects of the
    Polish king. In Poland they had so much freedom, partly because
    of the permissive and decentralized Polish governance, that
    they basically created a country within a country, with their own
    schools, courts, and taxation system. They spoke Yiddish, and
    rarely learned to speak the local language well, which added to
    the resentment.

    In the 1930s 10% of Poland's population was Jewish, about 3.5 million,
    by far much larger percentage than in the Soviet Union or Germany. Imagine
    the United States with 35 million Jews instead of the current 5-6 million. Clearly,
    there would be many more opportunities for friction between the Jews and
    the Christians.

    What was remembered in the 1930s Poland was that (1) Jewish leaders during
    WW I and at the Versailles Peace Conference were vehemently opposed to
    Poland regaining independence ;(2) Many Jews prior to WW I refused to learn
    Polish. For example, Isaac Bashevis Singer spoke Polish poorly and wrote his
    books in Yiddish even though he was born and raised in Poland.

    But what really created tension between the Polish Christians and Polish Jews
    in the 1920s-'30s was the fact that so many Jews, esp. among the urban
    intelligentsia, were Communist sympathizers, i.e., they subscribed to
    a "godless doctrine" developed by a German (though of Jewish origin),
    not something that would endear them to the majority population. What's
    even worse, those Communist sympathizers among the Jews were thought
    to have contacts in the Soviet Union which was then seen as the giant
    Communist menace in the East, contributing to the popularity of Hitler.
    Poland being next door knew exactly what was going in the Soviet Union
    in the 1930s - the level of Stalinist butchery was unprecedented in modern
    European history, starting with Holodomor, etc

    This is a highly one-sided view of Polish-Jewish history needless to say. If (as I am guessing) Anon 2 is Polish and this is what he is being taught in school, then you can see the problem right there.

    The “Jews = Bolsheviks” sleight of hand was popularized by the Nazis. Only a tiny % of Polish Jews were Communists and anti-Semitic Poles hated Jews because they were Jews, not because they were Communists. Before they hated them for being Communists they hated them for killing Jesus.

    If Poles really wanted Jews to integrate and learn the Polish language you would have thought that they would have encouraged them to attend Polish universities. Instead, they insisted that the Jews attending university sit separately on “ghetto benches” and disrupted classes until segregation was imposed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto_benches

    Read More
    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Bies Podkrakowski

    If Poles really wanted Jews to integrate and learn the Polish language you would have thought that they would have encouraged them to attend Polish universities. Instead, they insisted that the Jews attending university sit separately on “ghetto benches” and disrupted classes until segregation was imposed.
     
    Oh, Jews were encouraged to integrate. Before ghetto benches the percentage of Jews in those classes was very high, iirc 70-80% in law (the numbers may be wrong, but it was high). Ghetto benches were simply affirmative action of pre-war times for young, poor Poles.
    , @3g4me
    @55 Jack D: "If Poles really wanted Jews to integrate and learn the Polish language you would have thought that they would have encouraged them to attend Polish universities. Instead, they insisted that the Jews attending university sit separately on “ghetto benches” and disrupted classes until segregation was imposed."

    Genuine integration means intermarriage and linguistic, religious, and cultural assimilation. You condemn the Poles for not wanting what the Jews living in Poland themselves rejected . . . for centuries.

    You cannot simultaneously be both special and equal. Someday you are going to learn that lesson, to your rue.

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  58. @Anon 2
    Adding Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania,
    Bulgaria, and the Baltic States added an enormous market
    of over 100 million people. Are you aware of all the highways
    and railroad lines, like Via Baltica or Amber Rail, that are
    being constructed, or LNG terminals in Poland and Lithuania
    that have been built? I could mention many such vast engineering
    projects. And more are coming.

    Warsaw, Poland, cannot build skyscrapers fast enough to accomodate
    EU offices, NATO headquarters (one of several), and many banks,
    finance, real estate, and logistics companies that are moving to Poland.
    This is one of many reasons why Poland has such a dynamic economy.
    It grew 4.6% last year. Romania, by the way, grew even faster - at 5.5%
    in 2017.

    The European Union is aware that unless it keeps its present size, it
    cannot possibly compete with the U.S. or China. Should the V4 nations
    be expelled from the EU, China will be more than happy to move in and
    help them, just like it's helping Greece right now, thus reducing Germany
    and France to insignificant vassal states.

    The EU is basically a racket by big German corporations. You use German taxpayer money to buy heavy equipment from German manufacturers to build highways so people can buy German cars to drive on them using the German money (Euros) they made building the highways.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The only problem with that thesis is that the German taxpayer is expected and required to bankroll Greek profligacy.

    Hence the rise of Germany's UKIP the AfD.
    If the AfD gets any further traction, then for sure, the EU is screwed.
    , @Anon 2
    "The EU is a German racket"

    That's one reason why Poland has so far refused to join the Euro
    Zone. They know what happened to Greece. But that's also a reason
    why Poland is hated by Brussels

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  59. @Anon 2
    "There is little internal cohesion in Poland"

    And yet, compared to Russia, Poland has extremely low levels
    of social dysfunction. It has a very low divorce rate; extremely
    low homicide rate - much lower than Russia or the United States;
    extremely low abortion rates, HIV infection rates, and drug addiction
    rates. Its rate of alcohol consumption is about the same as that
    in the United States, and much lower than in Russia, Czechia, Germany
    or France. Poles like to complain but by all metrics Poland is currently
    thriving, and wants to keep it that way.

    From Poland's point of view, Germany and France have lost their
    élan vital (vital force) or will to live, whereas Poland is enjoying
    its relative independence (since 1989) after ceasing to exist as an
    independent country for almost 200 years (from the last partition
    in 1795 to the overthrow of Communism in 1989).

    Interwar Poland (1918-39) was not an independent country? Is that what they teach you?

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  60. @istevefan
    If all of what you write is true, then those poorer nations should demand more EU funds plus reject any migrants. It sounds like the EU could ill afford to lose them.

    Eastern countries to EU: “You had better knock it off or we won’t accept your massive aid anymore and will rely on Chinese aid instead!”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Actually, the Chinese (or Koreans or Japanese) would make a good fit with eastern Euros.

    They have similar characteristics in their hard headed view of the world.
    , @istevefan
    It does sound ridiculous when you state it that way. But one can argue the USA has been played like this by other nations. We used to compete with the USSR for clients. I imagine we got threats like that too.
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  61. @Peter Akuleyev

    Paradoxically, there is more internal cohesion within Poland because it resists external cohesion.
     
    There is very little internal cohesion in Poland. That is Poland’s eternal tragedy. PiS is undemocratic because they know a solid block of 40% of Poles hate them and will try to reverse everything accomplished the second PiS loses power. From PiS point of view this is a battle for survival, and it is practically a cold civil war. If PiS loses, game over.

    I have spent time in few countries where people dislike, envy and distrust each other as much as Poles do. This seems to be a problem among Europeans in general. The only time we show solidarity is when forced to by an authoritarian government, but Poles are Europeans par excellence, with both the best and worst qualities magnified.

    This is indeed the paradox of democracy. We see it in the US on divisive issues such as abortion and gun control and in the past segregation. The party in power refuses to accept any reasonable compromise and tries to irreversibly enshrine its position into the national structure because it is afraid that its gains are really ephemeral and will be swept away at the next election. So you end up with “all or nothing” type extreme positions and then when the wind finally shifts you go 180 degrees in the opposite direction. We went from having strict segregation to have preferences for blacks. From having no abortions to murdering babies that were nearly full term. Etc.

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  62. @Peter Akuleyev

    Maybe the Polish elite will choose their people people over fawning DB elites from other countries.
     
    The Polish elite is just like all the other elites. Poland is perhaps the only Western country not run by its elite, which is why it gets extra hatred. Trump and Orban are both cynics using nationalism for personal enrichment. Kaczynski is the real deal, perhaps the last real Christian nationalist since Franco.

    Trump and Orban are both cynics using nationalism for personal enrichment.

    Despite Democrat slander I have seen no real evidence that Trump is using or intends to use the Presidency as a money making opportunity. The Clintons and Obama – that’s another story.

    Read More
    • Replies: @EdwardM
    Agree. The opposite of Peter Akuleyev's assertion (as it relates to Trump) seems to be the case.

    How exactly is his office enriching Trump? It seems likely that his net worth will go down during his term, or at least not increase as much as it would have had he continued to lead the company. All powerful mainstream institutions -- media, politicians, corporate virtue-signalers -- are using their megaphones and lawfare to damage his business and brand. A few third-world diplomats booking their stays at a Trump hotel in silly attempts curry favor would hardly counteract that.

    Moreover, further enrichment was certainly not Trump's intention. Nobody but a deranged leftist could think that Trump woke up one day and said, "Don Jr., Eric, Ivanka, gather round. I have come up with a strategy to increase our net worth from $10B to $50B -- run for and win the presidency!"
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  63. Poland already had its Jewish population slaughtered. Can you blame its Christian Catholic majority for wanting to avoid the same fate? Apparently, if you sit in a cozy office at the NYT, not only can you, it’s your duty.

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  64. @Anon
    Poland, the nasty nation that defied and resisted Russian imperialist cohesion, Nazi imperialist cohesion, Soviet imperialist cohesion, and EU globo-imperialist cohesion.

    All empires want their subjects to cohere to the Narrative and Agenda.

    Nasty Polacks just won't cohere to the Program.

    Paradoxically, there is more internal cohesion within Poland because it resists external cohesion.

    If a nation coheres to external coercion, there is less cohesion within the nation.

    If a nation coheres to internal consensus, there is less cohesion with the empire.

    In a sane world, there would be no more empires, and sovereign nations will respect each other's borders and laws. But for Poland, from the frying pan into the fire once again.

    EU that began as a project of unity within Europe turned into a unity with America and Africa.

    EU is a mini-empire that is now a part of a bigger empire. It can no longer be about unity among European nations but unity with non-European nations.
    EU must cohere to Africa, Middle East, and globo-US.
    THAT is 'European values'. To turn Tuscany into Afro-Islamic world under pressure from Jews.

    Genius!

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  65. @Anon 2
    Adding Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania,
    Bulgaria, and the Baltic States added an enormous market
    of over 100 million people. Are you aware of all the highways
    and railroad lines, like Via Baltica or Amber Rail, that are
    being constructed, or LNG terminals in Poland and Lithuania
    that have been built? I could mention many such vast engineering
    projects. And more are coming.

    Warsaw, Poland, cannot build skyscrapers fast enough to accomodate
    EU offices, NATO headquarters (one of several), and many banks,
    finance, real estate, and logistics companies that are moving to Poland.
    This is one of many reasons why Poland has such a dynamic economy.
    It grew 4.6% last year. Romania, by the way, grew even faster - at 5.5%
    in 2017.

    The European Union is aware that unless it keeps its present size, it
    cannot possibly compete with the U.S. or China. Should the V4 nations
    be expelled from the EU, China will be more than happy to move in and
    help them, just like it's helping Greece right now, thus reducing Germany
    and France to insignificant vassal states.

    “Are you aware of all the highways
    and railroad lines, like Via Baltica or Amber Rail, that are
    being constructed, or LNG terminals in Poland and Lithuania
    that have been built?”

    Are those Liquefied Natural Gas terminals advertised to be for export of Russian LNG, or import of North American LNG?

    American and Canadian natural gas producers plan to sell LNG to Europe at prices lower than Russian natural gas suppliers will offer. … Bad news for the Russian economy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon 2
    LNG terminals were built to import North American natural gas
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  66. @Jack D
    This is a highly one-sided view of Polish-Jewish history needless to say. If (as I am guessing) Anon 2 is Polish and this is what he is being taught in school, then you can see the problem right there.

    The "Jews = Bolsheviks" sleight of hand was popularized by the Nazis. Only a tiny % of Polish Jews were Communists and anti-Semitic Poles hated Jews because they were Jews, not because they were Communists. Before they hated them for being Communists they hated them for killing Jesus.

    If Poles really wanted Jews to integrate and learn the Polish language you would have thought that they would have encouraged them to attend Polish universities. Instead, they insisted that the Jews attending university sit separately on "ghetto benches" and disrupted classes until segregation was imposed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto_benches

    If Poles really wanted Jews to integrate and learn the Polish language you would have thought that they would have encouraged them to attend Polish universities. Instead, they insisted that the Jews attending university sit separately on “ghetto benches” and disrupted classes until segregation was imposed.

    Oh, Jews were encouraged to integrate. Before ghetto benches the percentage of Jews in those classes was very high, iirc 70-80% in law (the numbers may be wrong, but it was high). Ghetto benches were simply affirmative action of pre-war times for young, poor Poles.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Your numbers are way, way wrong (note BTW, the tiny total # of university students for the whole country - nowadays that wouldn't fill a single state U's in the U.S.) but is typical of Polish anti-Semitic fantasies. In the mind of an anti-Semite Jews are 70-80% of everything (bad) - 70 or 80% of Communists are Jews, Jews own 70-80% of the newspapers, etc.

    https://www.jta.org/1933/03/09/archive/8923-jewish-students-in-polish-universities

    Jewish university enrollment was disproportional as you would expect for a high IQ population. Jews were about 10% of the population but 20% of university students so getting rid of the entire disproportion would have only opened up 10% more seats. How making the Jews sit on one side of the classroom was helpful I don't know.
    , @Jack D

    Ghetto benches were simply affirmative action of pre-war times for young, poor Poles.
     
    This was always the difference between Poles and Germans - Germans thought big and were better at execution (sometime literally). I have to tell you that I like Poles better despite this (or even BECAUSE of this), at least the ones that are not anti-Semites (and there are a lot of Poles who are not).

    Germans: First we will expel all the Jews from the universities. Then we will expel them from our country. Then we will murder all the rest with poison gas and burn their corpses and scatter the ashes. Then we will conquer the entire world and rule for 1,000 years!

    Poles: We will make the Jewish students sit on the left side of the classroom.
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  67. @Jack D
    This is a highly one-sided view of Polish-Jewish history needless to say. If (as I am guessing) Anon 2 is Polish and this is what he is being taught in school, then you can see the problem right there.

    The "Jews = Bolsheviks" sleight of hand was popularized by the Nazis. Only a tiny % of Polish Jews were Communists and anti-Semitic Poles hated Jews because they were Jews, not because they were Communists. Before they hated them for being Communists they hated them for killing Jesus.

    If Poles really wanted Jews to integrate and learn the Polish language you would have thought that they would have encouraged them to attend Polish universities. Instead, they insisted that the Jews attending university sit separately on "ghetto benches" and disrupted classes until segregation was imposed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto_benches

    @55 Jack D: “If Poles really wanted Jews to integrate and learn the Polish language you would have thought that they would have encouraged them to attend Polish universities. Instead, they insisted that the Jews attending university sit separately on “ghetto benches” and disrupted classes until segregation was imposed.”

    Genuine integration means intermarriage and linguistic, religious, and cultural assimilation. You condemn the Poles for not wanting what the Jews living in Poland themselves rejected . . . for centuries.

    You cannot simultaneously be both special and equal. Someday you are going to learn that lesson, to your rue.

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  68. @AndrewR
    I know nothing of Eritrea but, despite the extent to which many Eritreans consider themselves distinct from Ethiopians, they are essentially brother-ethnicities, and the most famous Ethiopian in the US is the rapper Weeknd, who seems to have fully assimilated into some of the worse aspects including gratuitous use of the n-word [I would write the word if I didn't fear Sailer memoryholing my comment for it].

    You were right to blue-pencil the n-word, likewise the never seen k-word, for fear of not making the cut.

    The only ethnic slur that passes muster here is the ack suffix applied to Poles. In fact, some schlep used it earlier in this comment thread.

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  69. @Jack D
    The EU is basically a racket by big German corporations. You use German taxpayer money to buy heavy equipment from German manufacturers to build highways so people can buy German cars to drive on them using the German money (Euros) they made building the highways.

    The only problem with that thesis is that the German taxpayer is expected and required to bankroll Greek profligacy.

    Hence the rise of Germany’s UKIP the AfD.
    If the AfD gets any further traction, then for sure, the EU is screwed.

    Read More
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  70. @Jack D
    Eastern countries to EU: "You had better knock it off or we won't accept your massive aid anymore and will rely on Chinese aid instead!"

    Actually, the Chinese (or Koreans or Japanese) would make a good fit with eastern Euros.

    They have similar characteristics in their hard headed view of the world.

    Read More
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  71. Jack D said:

    This is indeed the paradox of democracy.

    Hey Jack, I’ve been meaning to ask you something, and I didn’t see you in the Jerusalem thread:

    You say you reject the idea that Americans of British stock are more American than other groups, that America largely belongs to them, etc.

    Do you reject the idea that Israel belongs to the Jews? And even if you did, why should we accept your position, when it will have no impact on Israeli or diaspora Jewish policy?

    Jews reject the notion for Israel; I think it’s entirely reasonable for Old Stock Americans to reject Jewish notions for America.

    Besides, Jews couldn’t even reciprocate, even if they wanted to (which they very much do not); Israel’s like the size of a small state in New England.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    First of all, Israel is not an ethnostate - aside from the fact that Jews themselves are racially diverse (Judaism is a religion not a race), Israel has all sorts of minorities including a huge Arab minority. Israel is also sort of unique in being a tiny little dot on the map and the sole safe haven for Jews after 6 million of them were murdered in Europe, so I think it is sort of sui generis and cannot be compared to the US. If you want to compare it to another country you should compare it to Tajikistan or Honduras, both of whom have more people than Israel but which for some reason no one obsesses about. No one has any problems with Tajikistan as an ethnostate.

    2nd the US was not founded on ethnostate principles (neither was Poland BTW but Hitler and Stalin did an amazing job of cleaning out everyone who was not a Polish ethnic from Poland - not just the Jews but all of the other minorities as well). The Constitution never mentions the US as being the home for Old Stock (British) Americans only because it wasn't, even then and was never intended to be. If the Jews had wanted to live in an ethnostate they would have just stayed in Russia but they were told that America was a country that had no religious tests for citizenship.
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  72. This is a highly one-sided view of Polish-Jewish history needless to say. If (as I am guessing) Anon 2 is Polish and this is what he is being taught in school, then you can see the problem right there.

    Nope, not a problem; it’s probably a lot like what is being taught about Poland in Israeli schools; nationalist.

    YOU are the one with the problem. The Jewish problem; you can’t grasp the Golden Rule. You think you are exempt, or above it, or something.

    Clean up your own back yard, Jew.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    It's OK to teach lies as long as they are nationalist lies?
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  73. @Anon
    Poland, the nasty nation that defied and resisted Russian imperialist cohesion, Nazi imperialist cohesion, Soviet imperialist cohesion, and EU globo-imperialist cohesion.

    All empires want their subjects to cohere to the Narrative and Agenda.

    Nasty Polacks just won't cohere to the Program.

    Paradoxically, there is more internal cohesion within Poland because it resists external cohesion.

    If a nation coheres to external coercion, there is less cohesion within the nation.

    If a nation coheres to internal consensus, there is less cohesion with the empire.

    In a sane world, there would be no more empires, and sovereign nations will respect each other's borders and laws. But for Poland, from the frying pan into the fire once again.

    EU that began as a project of unity within Europe turned into a unity with America and Africa.

    EU is a mini-empire that is now a part of a bigger empire. It can no longer be about unity among European nations but unity with non-European nations.
    EU must cohere to Africa, Middle East, and globo-US.
    THAT is 'European values'. To turn Tuscany into Afro-Islamic world under pressure from Jews.

    Poland is in the right. The West is full of weak minded men lead by their mothers while drowning in a sea of cultural suicide and bent over backwards by the people that exploit their accomplishments.

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  74. @Bies Podkrakowski

    If Poles really wanted Jews to integrate and learn the Polish language you would have thought that they would have encouraged them to attend Polish universities. Instead, they insisted that the Jews attending university sit separately on “ghetto benches” and disrupted classes until segregation was imposed.
     
    Oh, Jews were encouraged to integrate. Before ghetto benches the percentage of Jews in those classes was very high, iirc 70-80% in law (the numbers may be wrong, but it was high). Ghetto benches were simply affirmative action of pre-war times for young, poor Poles.

    Your numbers are way, way wrong (note BTW, the tiny total # of university students for the whole country – nowadays that wouldn’t fill a single state U’s in the U.S.) but is typical of Polish anti-Semitic fantasies. In the mind of an anti-Semite Jews are 70-80% of everything (bad) – 70 or 80% of Communists are Jews, Jews own 70-80% of the newspapers, etc.

    https://www.jta.org/1933/03/09/archive/8923-jewish-students-in-polish-universities

    Jewish university enrollment was disproportional as you would expect for a high IQ population. Jews were about 10% of the population but 20% of university students so getting rid of the entire disproportion would have only opened up 10% more seats. How making the Jews sit on one side of the classroom was helpful I don’t know.

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  75. @Jack D
    Eastern countries to EU: "You had better knock it off or we won't accept your massive aid anymore and will rely on Chinese aid instead!"

    It does sound ridiculous when you state it that way. But one can argue the USA has been played like this by other nations. We used to compete with the USSR for clients. I imagine we got threats like that too.

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  76. @Svigor
    Jack D said:

    This is indeed the paradox of democracy.
     
    Hey Jack, I've been meaning to ask you something, and I didn't see you in the Jerusalem thread:

    You say you reject the idea that Americans of British stock are more American than other groups, that America largely belongs to them, etc.

    Do you reject the idea that Israel belongs to the Jews? And even if you did, why should we accept your position, when it will have no impact on Israeli or diaspora Jewish policy?

    Jews reject the notion for Israel; I think it's entirely reasonable for Old Stock Americans to reject Jewish notions for America.

    Besides, Jews couldn't even reciprocate, even if they wanted to (which they very much do not); Israel's like the size of a small state in New England.

    First of all, Israel is not an ethnostate – aside from the fact that Jews themselves are racially diverse (Judaism is a religion not a race), Israel has all sorts of minorities including a huge Arab minority. Israel is also sort of unique in being a tiny little dot on the map and the sole safe haven for Jews after 6 million of them were murdered in Europe, so I think it is sort of sui generis and cannot be compared to the US. If you want to compare it to another country you should compare it to Tajikistan or Honduras, both of whom have more people than Israel but which for some reason no one obsesses about. No one has any problems with Tajikistan as an ethnostate.

    2nd the US was not founded on ethnostate principles (neither was Poland BTW but Hitler and Stalin did an amazing job of cleaning out everyone who was not a Polish ethnic from Poland – not just the Jews but all of the other minorities as well). The Constitution never mentions the US as being the home for Old Stock (British) Americans only because it wasn’t, even then and was never intended to be. If the Jews had wanted to live in an ethnostate they would have just stayed in Russia but they were told that America was a country that had no religious tests for citizenship.

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    • Agree: Johann Ricke
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  77. @Svigor

    This is a highly one-sided view of Polish-Jewish history needless to say. If (as I am guessing) Anon 2 is Polish and this is what he is being taught in school, then you can see the problem right there.
     
    Nope, not a problem; it's probably a lot like what is being taught about Poland in Israeli schools; nationalist.

    YOU are the one with the problem. The Jewish problem; you can't grasp the Golden Rule. You think you are exempt, or above it, or something.

    Clean up your own back yard, Jew.

    It’s OK to teach lies as long as they are nationalist lies?

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  78. @AnotherDad


    a union of nation states trading freely with one another but not interfering in domestic politics or national culture.
     
    The horror! The horror!
     
    Seems like even i can remember when "progressives" were in favor of "national self-determination". Anyone else?

    If i recall that was (in essence) one of Wilson's 14 points and why his speech was wildly popular around the world. But apparently the people in charge of "progress" now, don't like nations very much ... find them kind of icky.

    Now "progressive" means "believe what we believe about 'transgender' bathroom policy right now or you're subject to drone strike from central command!"

    Yep, I remember those days. We learned about them in school.

    More years ago than I care to contemplate.

    But the elites really did accomplish heating the water so slowly many of us didn’t notice. As others have noted, it took a while to completely take over the schools, universities, media and so on.

    Now the water is unbearably hot…yet even so, some don’t notice.

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  79. @Bies Podkrakowski

    If Poles really wanted Jews to integrate and learn the Polish language you would have thought that they would have encouraged them to attend Polish universities. Instead, they insisted that the Jews attending university sit separately on “ghetto benches” and disrupted classes until segregation was imposed.
     
    Oh, Jews were encouraged to integrate. Before ghetto benches the percentage of Jews in those classes was very high, iirc 70-80% in law (the numbers may be wrong, but it was high). Ghetto benches were simply affirmative action of pre-war times for young, poor Poles.

    Ghetto benches were simply affirmative action of pre-war times for young, poor Poles.

    This was always the difference between Poles and Germans – Germans thought big and were better at execution (sometime literally). I have to tell you that I like Poles better despite this (or even BECAUSE of this), at least the ones that are not anti-Semites (and there are a lot of Poles who are not).

    Germans: First we will expel all the Jews from the universities. Then we will expel them from our country. Then we will murder all the rest with poison gas and burn their corpses and scatter the ashes. Then we will conquer the entire world and rule for 1,000 years!

    Poles: We will make the Jewish students sit on the left side of the classroom.

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    • LOL: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Bies Podkrakowski
    Lies damned lies and statistics. I will grant you that 70-8 percent is probably too high. Memory is fallible. Your data however is also misleading because shows only the overall number of Jewish students in comparison to all students. However there were fields where Jews were much more numerous, than their percentage in population would suggest. Especially in law. It could make some people angry.

    (I read that there were cities in prewar Poland where there no Polish lawyers. But those are of course antisemitic fables and we should not believe in them.)

    The other commentator has put it the best. You cannot simultaneously be both special and equal.

    I have to tell you that I like Poles better despite this (or even BECAUSE of this), at least the ones that are not anti-Semites (and there are a lot of Poles who are not).
     
    Oh, but we all are. We suck antisemitism with mother's milk. It is genetic. We cannot escape it. Those you think are not antisemites are only bidding their time waiting for the next pogrom. Lets take me, for an example. Educated in schools about our bestest pals the Jews, that were inseparable part of our culture, like a family really - if we are to believe some of our most enlightened inteligentsia. Sorry for Jedwabne, Auschwitz, everything, sorry very sorry. We must be nice to them and forgive them those small, insignificant lies.

    And today it turns out that almost thirty years of this abnegation doesn't mater. We are the nation that didn't protest when Germans build Auschwitz, so it makes us all guilty, now and forever. And we didn't even have the the fun like Germans.

    So, you can see we have no other way. We are all antisemites.
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  80. So the NYT wants another “Case White?”

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  81. @Rosamond Vincy
    Oh, if only it could be the white elephant that finally saps the EU of all its power ...

    Oh, if only it could be the white elephant that finally saps the EU of all its power …

    The U.S. should make some “friends” in Poland and convince the EU to let those “friends” have positions of influence in the EU, as of way of making Poland feel the EU isn’t so bad. Then those Polish friends will run the EU into the ground.

    The Michael Corleone Gambit. Convince your enemy to hire someone you know is a screw-up.

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  82. First of all, Israel is not an ethnostate – aside from the fact that Jews themselves are racially diverse (Judaism is a religion not a race), Israel has all sorts of minorities including a huge Arab minority. Israel is also sort of unique in being a tiny little dot on the map and the sole safe haven for Jews after 6 million of them were murdered in Europe, so I think it is sort of sui generis and cannot be compared to the US. If you want to compare it to another country you should compare it to Tajikistan or Honduras, both of whom have more people than Israel but which for some reason no one obsesses about. No one has any problems with Tajikistan as an ethnostate.

    2nd the US was not founded on ethnostate principles (neither was Poland BTW but Hitler and Stalin did an amazing job of cleaning out everyone who was not a Polish ethnic from Poland – not just the Jews but all of the other minorities as well). The Constitution never mentions the US as being the home for Old Stock (British) Americans only because it wasn’t, even then and was never intended to be. If the Jews had wanted to live in an ethnostate they would have just stayed in Russia but they were told that America was a country that had no religious tests for citizenship.

    Yeah but is it mine, the way America is yours? I guess it can’t be; I wasn’t invited. So Jews don’t reciprocate, gotcha. I knew that already, but figured maybe you had counterargument. But you don’t.

    Israel is also sort of unique in being a tiny little dot on the map and the sole safe haven for Jews after 6 million of them were murdered in Europe, so I think it is sort of sui generis and cannot be compared to the US.

    Yeah , this is special pleading. Diaspora Jews won’t tolerate tiny little dots on the map for white people, not even a sole safe haven for them. And this after tens of millions of them were murdered by the heavily Jewish early Soviet regime.

    If you want to compare it to another country you should compare it to Tajikistan or Honduras, both of whom have more people than Israel but which for some reason no one obsesses about. No one has any problems with Tajikistan as an ethnostate.

    Half the reason for the “obsessing” is how much bullshit you Jews sling. E.g., Honduras and Tajikistan are nowhere up in our business. E.g., how you guys play obtuse all the time “gosh, whatever could they be ‘obsessing’ about?” Like you haven’t heard these counter-arguments hundreds of times already; you’re a dishonest person. White people tend to “obsess” about dishonest people up on soap boxes, get used to it, that’s how our DNA works.

    2nd the US was not founded on ethnostate principles

    Or in complete violation of White norms as they would foist onto Jews. Quite unlike Jews, who started their ethnostate after they started their permanent war on white ethnocentrism, very much diametrically opposed to the zeitgeist (that they were instrumental in creating).

    Not that precedent really has anything to do with it (so I’ll leave the Founders’ “free white persons” immigration laws out of the discussion; one more fact you’ll just “forget” anyway).

    The Constitution never mentions the US as being the home for Old Stock (British) Americans only because it wasn’t, even then and was never intended to be. If the Jews had wanted to live in an ethnostate they would have just stayed in Russia but they were told that America was a country that had no religious tests for citizenship.

    None of this gets past the fact that Jews don’t reciprocate. They spend half their time supporting their own ethnocentrism, and their other half condemning anyone else’s.

    It’s all very convenient for you isn’t it, bigmouth?

    It’s OK to teach lies as long as they are nationalist lies?

    Clean up your own back yard, Jews.

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  83. In 1965, America was a 90% white country. That tradition, in place since 1924 by means of immigration law that was explicitly written and passed to maintain the historic demographic balance, didn’t sit well with the Jews. So, they spent 40 years working to change it. They finally got their way in 1965, in part by lying to the American people about the consequences of the bill.

    So, why should we respect Israeli founding myths, again?

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  84. Consider the mindset involved in waving a contract at someone who’s talking about his right to survive, cuz that’s where Jack’s head is at.

    “2nd the US was not founded on ethnostate principles.”

    “See here, goy, I have it in writing; the Constitution really is a suicide pact!”

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  85. The EU Commission = The Economist Editorial Board at ‘Prayer’.

    Now you understand the galactic levels of stupidity emanating from the EU.

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  86. @Altai
    Cause if there's no country in the EU with massive cultural influence it's Poland, you can't stop the young people in Paris, Berlin and London from discussing Polish political and social philosophy and everyone in Europe always thinks about 'What will Poland think about this?!', 'What will they do?!'.

    Literally nobody in countries that don't directly border Poland ever give the country much thought, let alone the social or political Zeitgeist there.

    “Nobody except its neighbors gives Poland much thought”

    Really? And yet Ryszard Legutko’s latest book, ” The Demon in Democracy – Totalitarian
    Temptations in Free Societies” (2016) has become a worldwide bestseller. Legutko is
    a Polish political philosopher and member of the European Parliament.

    Poland is now developing ballistic missiles (in conjunction with Ukraine) and may
    acquire nuclear weapons

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  87. @Altai
    Of course, the NYT will never mention the genuine role of Poland in the disillusion of the EU in terms of mass migration to the UK with Poland being the source of the plurality of that, being the primary reason for Brexit.

    Not mentioned either will be the enthusiasm that the NYTs and others had for the expansion of the EU into the former Warsaw Pact, in part hoping to dilute a more Gaullist foreign policy and otherwise influence the EU through 'New Europe' in an attempt to get the EU to have a more antagonistic relationship to Russia.

    Brexit was primarily about Britain saying “No” to being under
    Germany’s thumb. The Brits effectively said, “We won the war!
    The Krauts have no business telling us how to live our lives.”
    The immigration from the EU was secondary as an issue.
    The immigration from Africa and Asia was a much bigger issue
    but the Brits were, of course, tight-lipped about it.

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  88. @Jack D
    The EU is basically a racket by big German corporations. You use German taxpayer money to buy heavy equipment from German manufacturers to build highways so people can buy German cars to drive on them using the German money (Euros) they made building the highways.

    “The EU is a German racket”

    That’s one reason why Poland has so far refused to join the Euro
    Zone. They know what happened to Greece. But that’s also a reason
    why Poland is hated by Brussels

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  89. @David Davenport
    "Are you aware of all the highways
    and railroad lines, like Via Baltica or Amber Rail, that are
    being constructed, or LNG terminals in Poland and Lithuania
    that have been built?"

    Are those Liquefied Natural Gas terminals advertised to be for export of Russian LNG, or import of North American LNG?

    American and Canadian natural gas producers plan to sell LNG to Europe at prices lower than Russian natural gas suppliers will offer. ... Bad news for the Russian economy.

    LNG terminals were built to import North American natural gas

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  90. The EU is a NATO construct, whose ultimate aim is the occupation of Russia (and seizure of her resources). Europeans are brainwashed into believing Russia threatens the EU. Really? With the US permanently posting 2 warships in the Black Sea? With the US ousting the pro-Russian Ukraine regime to knock out the Russian naval base at Sevastopol in the Crimea? All evidence shows that NATO and the EU are the aggressors.
    A visit to Poland will reveal that EU cohesion funds have been used for 3 main purposes: (1) To build airports and infrastructure to enable rapid large-scale NATO deployments; (2) To fund Polish purchases of US-manufactured anti-ballistic missile defence systems. The one Patriot battery thus far deployed has cost “Polish” (read British/ German/French) taxpayers €4 billion thus far. It is sited at Gdansk, a stones-throw from the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad; (3) To buy Polish loyalty to the “EU project”…so important that ex-Polish PM Donald Tusk heads the EU Council and ex-deputy PM Elżbieta Bieńkowska is an EU commissioner.
    If you sat in the waiting area of Warsaw rail station a year ago, you would have faced a very large billboard showing a map of Eastern Europe. Across it was emplazoned: “Raytheon missile defense shield…keeping Poland safe.” Angela Merkel’s threats against the Polish government are very real – Poland is key to NATO’s expansionist agenda and EU hegemony over Poland must be maintained at all costs.

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  91. @Anon
    Israel should cohere with pan-Semitic Judeo-Islamic values.
    Never mind the notion of Judeo-Christian values.
    Judeo-Islamic values are more like it. After all, American Jews have better opinion of Muslims than of Evangelical Christians who make the most noise about Judeo-Christian values. Most Jews reject the notion of 'Judeo-Christian'.

    Jews and Arabs are both Semites. And Muslims tolerated Jews in the Middle East. So, Judeo-Islamic values must prevail in all of Middle East. Israel must cohere to Pan-Judeo-Islamic-Semitic values. It must allow Right of Return and Open Borders and break down the walls. Israeli-Zionist nationalism is threatening Semitic values and Judeo-Islamic cohesion.

    I accept that your comment about Judeo-Islamic bonds may have been penned tongue-in-cheek. In which case, my comment will provide some context. I have lived and worked in the Arabian Gulf and worked on assignments to Egypt and Jordan. The assertion that “Muslims tolerated Jews in the Middle East” is patently untrue. In the Gulf countries, the word “Israel” is censored from all books. Maps showing Israel are either torn from books, or the pages are glued together to hide the map. Anyone who has an Israeli stamp in a passport is refused entry. The Hadeeth explains that Muhammed had 23 wives and concubines. His final wife Safiyyah was war bounty – he executed her husband and family precisely because they were Jews and refused to convert to Islam. Hence this represents a tenet of Islam … if you are not prepared to recite the Shahada and convert to Islam, you are treated as “kuffar”, heathen. That means that even Europeans like myself are subject to racism, duplicity, lies and evasion by Arabs. I was fortunate enough to visit Yemen in 2004 before it relapsed into a failed state. The sizeable Jewish community had been driven out of the country and its wealth plundered. In every town the locals would barter carved Jewish silver artefacts for money. If, as you say, “American Jews have a better opinion of Muslims”, the feeling is definitely not reciprocated in the Middle East.

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  92. @Jack D

    Ghetto benches were simply affirmative action of pre-war times for young, poor Poles.
     
    This was always the difference between Poles and Germans - Germans thought big and were better at execution (sometime literally). I have to tell you that I like Poles better despite this (or even BECAUSE of this), at least the ones that are not anti-Semites (and there are a lot of Poles who are not).

    Germans: First we will expel all the Jews from the universities. Then we will expel them from our country. Then we will murder all the rest with poison gas and burn their corpses and scatter the ashes. Then we will conquer the entire world and rule for 1,000 years!

    Poles: We will make the Jewish students sit on the left side of the classroom.

    Lies damned lies and statistics. I will grant you that 70-8 percent is probably too high. Memory is fallible. Your data however is also misleading because shows only the overall number of Jewish students in comparison to all students. However there were fields where Jews were much more numerous, than their percentage in population would suggest. Especially in law. It could make some people angry.

    (I read that there were cities in prewar Poland where there no Polish lawyers. But those are of course antisemitic fables and we should not believe in them.)

    The other commentator has put it the best. You cannot simultaneously be both special and equal.

    I have to tell you that I like Poles better despite this (or even BECAUSE of this), at least the ones that are not anti-Semites (and there are a lot of Poles who are not).

    Oh, but we all are. We suck antisemitism with mother’s milk. It is genetic. We cannot escape it. Those you think are not antisemites are only bidding their time waiting for the next pogrom. Lets take me, for an example. Educated in schools about our bestest pals the Jews, that were inseparable part of our culture, like a family really – if we are to believe some of our most enlightened inteligentsia. Sorry for Jedwabne, Auschwitz, everything, sorry very sorry. We must be nice to them and forgive them those small, insignificant lies.

    And today it turns out that almost thirty years of this abnegation doesn’t mater. We are the nation that didn’t protest when Germans build Auschwitz, so it makes us all guilty, now and forever. And we didn’t even have the the fun like Germans.

    So, you can see we have no other way. We are all antisemites.

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  93. You’re having a hard time attributing any sins to the Jews.

    Yes, over 80% of the Bolsheviks were Jews. Confirm the major ones on Wikipedia. Last fall even Putin reminded the Jews to whose synagogue he was returning some religious relics seized by the Soviets that over 80% of the Bolsheviks were Jews. On the other hand, I don’t believe Ashkenazis are actually related to historical Israel, so you may be right.

    As has been mentioned, there was a mass of Jews in Poland for over a thousand years and apart from traditional anti-semitism the Jews especially in latter day Poland earned the Poles’ ire, such as colluding with the Soviets during the last war. My in-laws’ elderly neighbours in eastern Poland recalled how Jewish neighbours would call them ‘pigs’ and treat them with disdain, among other things.

    We just want to make sure you never return to our midst. Go back to where you came from and stay there.

    As a Jewish (real Jew, Sephardic) ex-friend admitted to me, I know or have known more Jews than most Jews know Jews and if there’s one thing they have in common it is that they suffer from a pathology which prevents them from realizing that perhaps there are rational reasons firmly based in reality people disdain them for.

    Here are some recent ones from YNet:

    Stalin’s Jews

    - We mustn’t forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish

    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

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  94. @Jack D

    Trump and Orban are both cynics using nationalism for personal enrichment.
     
    Despite Democrat slander I have seen no real evidence that Trump is using or intends to use the Presidency as a money making opportunity. The Clintons and Obama - that's another story.

    Agree. The opposite of Peter Akuleyev’s assertion (as it relates to Trump) seems to be the case.

    How exactly is his office enriching Trump? It seems likely that his net worth will go down during his term, or at least not increase as much as it would have had he continued to lead the company. All powerful mainstream institutions — media, politicians, corporate virtue-signalers — are using their megaphones and lawfare to damage his business and brand. A few third-world diplomats booking their stays at a Trump hotel in silly attempts curry favor would hardly counteract that.

    Moreover, further enrichment was certainly not Trump’s intention. Nobody but a deranged leftist could think that Trump woke up one day and said, “Don Jr., Eric, Ivanka, gather round. I have come up with a strategy to increase our net worth from $10B to $50B — run for and win the presidency!”

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