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NYT: Muslim Criminals in France Turn to Terrorism Because They Feel Dissed; White People at Fault
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From the NYT:

The Mill of Muslim Radicalism in France

French prisons have become a breeding ground for Islamist extremism partly because they mistreat the Islamic faith.

By FARHAD KHOSROKHAVAR JAN. 25, 2015

… Muslims account for about 7-10 percent of France’s total population but around half of its prison population of 68,000. Muslims are even more numerous in facilities near large cities, particularly in maisons d’arrêt, which hold prisoners serving shorter sentences.

I’ve just had an insight into why Muslims are even more concentrated in prisons near big cities in France: as Willie Sutton might have said, because that’s where the Muslims are.

Precise figures are unavailable because laïcité, France’s strict form of secularism, prohibits officially asking and collecting data about people’s religious preferences.

Different European countries have different ideologies and different policies for dealing with low-end Muslims. Here’s an article I wrote 11 years ago on the four different approaches. Yet the results are all about the same.

Many Muslims feel marginalized when they get to prison, due to exclusion and bigotry from the white majority in mainstream society, and their own counterracism.

“Counterracism” is intended to imply that racism by Muslims is, like everything else, the fault of whites. The problem is that it still has “racism” in it. Maybe the recent massacres in Paris could instead be attributed to “collateral social justice.”

Although in urban prisons they are a majority, they continue to feel victimized and trapped.

Well, trapped is kind of the point of prison, isn’t it?

Very few guards are Muslim, and prison officials, who tend to be hypersecular, have little understanding of Islam, for example confusing fundamentalism with extremism.

“Look at how a Catholic or a Jew is treated, and look at how we are treated,” Abdelkarim, a Frenchman of Italian origin in his late 20s who was serving a five-year sentence for armed robbery, told me in 2012.

Abdelkarim is an armed robber, by the way.

“They have their weekly prayers; in this prison we don’t have Friday prayers. Their rabbi can go to all the cells; our Muslim minister cannot. There’s kosher food, but no halal meat. They despise us, and they call that laïcité.”

In fact, Muslim ministers can visit Muslim inmates in their cells but usually don’t do it for lack of time, and halal meat is increasingly available.

It’s almost as if violent criminals aren’t the most unbiased sources of information.

But such misperceptions are common, and they only reinforce the appeal of Islam as the religion of choice for the stigmatized and the oppressed. Unlike Christianity, it has an anti-Western and anti-imperialist bend.

… Adherence to radical Islam is largely the transfer into the spiritual realm of that particular combination of indignation, rancor and wholesale rejection encompassed by the expression, widespread among prisoners, “avoir la haine” (to have hate).

Islam’s good at that.

For some inmates, especially those who were only nominally Muslim and nonpracticing, violent aspirations emerge first, with religiosity — and often a very approximate understanding of Islam — grafting itself onto to them later.

Clearly, the first thing to do is to import more Muslim immigrants.

More must also be done to address the legitimate claims of Muslim inmates. …

Indeed, reform must begin with respect. For if French prisons have become a breeding ground for radicalism, it is partly because they mistreat the Islamic faith itself.

Nothing discourages violent criminals more than giving in to their demands.

In summary, you know those massacres of cartoonists and kosher shoppers? White people were at fault.

 
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  1. In summary, you know those massacres of cartoonists and kosher shoppers? White people were at fault.

    Actually, I think that the Hebdo cartoonists were partly at fault for their own deaths for their hatred of those people who were trying to protect France from the Muslim threat. I feel the same way when someone who petitions for the National Front to be banned gets killed by a Muslim that I do when an SPLC contributor gets murdered by blacks in a park.

    It’s Timothy Treadwell all over again.

    • Replies: @anonymous

    Actually, I think that the Hebdo cartoonists were partly at fault for their own deaths for their hatred of those people who were trying to protect France from the Muslim threat.
     
    Now that the dust has settled I feel that it's better them than me. Their own pets turned around and bit them. Had the target been a group of National Front members I doubt the Hebdo people would have cared in the slightest. In fact they probably would have produced some of their pornographic cartoons mocking the victims. I suppose it would mark me as a bad person were I to utter the words 'good riddance' in the company of some upscale type people so it's always best not to say what one might really think.
    , @Ex Submarine Officer
    "Actually, I think that the Hebdo cartoonists were partly at fault for their own deaths for their hatred of those people who were trying to protect France from the Muslim threat."

    I'd guess that the average Charlie Hebdo cartoonist would espouse at least as much of a visceral, malicious, personal hatred of me for who I am as would the average Muslim. Probably more than the average Muslim but some of the fundamentalist Islamic definitely and actively frown upon people like me.

    Basically, I wish I could live in a place far, far away from either type where I'd have little or no contact with them and they would have little or no effect on my or my family's lives.

    Oh wait, I already do... And this is probably the best available, if imperfect, solution, since Hebdoites and Islamic fundamentalists have worldviews that are fundamentally incompatible with mine and it doesn't look like anyone (including me) is of much inclined to change their minds.

    , @C. Van Carter
    Philippe Lançon, a writer for Charlie Hebdo and survivor of the massacre says:

    It so happens that at that last meeting the subject of debate was none other than French jihadists. Tignous was by no means defending them but, true kid of the banlieues and survivor of poverty that he was, he wondered just what France had actually done to avoid creating these furious monsters, and launched into a magnificent rant on behalf of these latter-day misérables. It was as if suddenly his voice was reaching us from the time of the Paris Commune. Bernard Maris retorted that France had done plenty, had lavished tons of cash. The volume increased—at Charlie Hebdo this subject is all the more sensitive because everyone is horrified at the thought of being seen as racist or cynical.
     
  2. “Well, trapped is kind of the point of prison, isn’t it?”

    Shh. Quiet, Steve. That’s not very nice.

    “It’s almost as if violent criminals aren’t the most unbiased sources of information.”

    Now there you go again.

  3. In other news, the California Supreme Court has banned judges from serving as leaders in the Boy Scouts. You wanted your shitty, authoritarian, Third World judiciary, well you got it.

    Gays: “Oh hey, you know all that bullshit we fed you about accepting our homosexuality because ‘live and let live’? We were totally kidding!”

    P.S. We’ll know the worth of a Republican presidential nominee based in part on whether or not he chooses to turn this news story into a campaign issue.

    • Replies: @Sean
    Winner of France's 'Mr Gay' competition supports FN

    http://www.libertarianrepublican.net/2015/01/frances-mr-gay-for-2015-is-marine-le.html

    But we have been through all this with the French communist party,which got 20% of the vote in 1978, and then saw their support fade away. The country is not going to have the FN participating in government under any circumstances. For one thing, French banks's balence sheets consist largely of potentially toxic loans to Italy that Italy can't pay back. France needs Germany to guarantee the whole system, so the Germans could pull the rug from under any government with the FN in it quite easily
  4. Well, trapped is kind of the point of prison, isn’t it?

    The social-scientific breakthrough of 1975, no joke.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    James Q. Wilson's "Thinking About Crime."
  5. But such misperceptions are common, and they only reinforce the appeal of Islam as the religion of choice for the stigmatized and the oppressed. Unlike Christianity, it has an anti-Western and anti-imperialist bend.

    Mike Tyson put it succinctly in Toback’s documentary when he explained why he converted to Islam while in prison for the rape of Desiree Washington: “I hated America so I became a Muslim.”

  6. @timothy

    Well, trapped is kind of the point of prison, isn’t it?
     
    The social-scientific breakthrough of 1975, no joke.

    James Q. Wilson’s “Thinking About Crime.”

  7. “Many Muslims feel marginalized when they get to prison, due to . . . their own counterracism.”

    Ah, yes, “counterracism.” I was wondering what motivated those moslem prisoners.

    Now I understand. Since only European-descended white folk can be racist, everyone else is “counterracist.”

    It’s sort of like how we knew that fellow Zimmerman was white. He was racist (he killed one of Obama’s imaginary sons) so obviously he was white. If Trayvon Martin had killed Zimmerman, that would have been counterracism, don’t you see?

    • Replies: @snorlax

    It’s sort of like how we knew that fellow Zimmerman was white. He was racist (he killed one of Obama’s imaginary sons) so obviously he was white. If Trayvon Martin had killed Zimmerman, that would have been counterracism, don’t you see?

     

    No, it would have been the result of the climate of hate and violence towards Hispanics whipped up by Florida's extreme Republican governor, Rick Scott.
    , @BurplesonAFB
    Yes, Counterracism. Surely everything can be made better if we just frame all actions as a retaliation for some earlier (centuries earlier if necessary) perceived transgression or slight. There's no way that could turn out badly.

    I'll assume that the stylesheet of the NYT has been amended to refer to the holocaust only as "The Great Retribution"
  8. @Veracitor
    "Many Muslims feel marginalized when they get to prison, due to . . . their own counterracism."

    Ah, yes, "counterracism." I was wondering what motivated those moslem prisoners.

    Now I understand. Since only European-descended white folk can be racist, everyone else is "counterracist."

    It's sort of like how we knew that fellow Zimmerman was white. He was racist (he killed one of Obama's imaginary sons) so obviously he was white. If Trayvon Martin had killed Zimmerman, that would have been counterracism, don't you see?

    It’s sort of like how we knew that fellow Zimmerman was white. He was racist (he killed one of Obama’s imaginary sons) so obviously he was white. If Trayvon Martin had killed Zimmerman, that would have been counterracism, don’t you see?

    No, it would have been the result of the climate of hate and violence towards Hispanics whipped up by Florida’s extreme Republican governor, Rick Scott.

  9. Well that settles it they’re barking mad.

    “There’s kosher food, but no halal meat.” Kosher meat is acceptable in Islam. To be halal the animal must be slaughtered in the name of god , Kosher complies with that requirement. The clown that wrote the article knows this and Abdelkarim should but he may not since he thought it was ok to stick a weapon in someone’s face to rob them and that is most emphatically NOT in accordance with Islamic law.
    Here’s a thought : to make them feel less disenfranchised maybe we could apply Sharia law in some cases , like theft for instance . So cut his hand off , that way we could show our respect for his religion , and at the same time ensure he can’t pick up anything that doesn’t belong to him.

    • Replies: @Danindc
    Agreed. The rare win-win-win
    , @Daniel H
    >>...he thought it was ok to stick a weapon in someone’s face to rob them and that is most emphatically NOT in accordance with Islamic law.

    Unless the robbery victim is a dirty kaffir, then all is fair.
    , @gzu
    "Here’s a thought : to make them feel less disenfranchised maybe we could apply Sharia law in some cases , like theft for instance . So cut his hand off , that way we could show our respect for his religion , and at the same time ensure he can’t pick up anything that doesn’t belong to him."

    Heh heh. I like your style.

    Honestly though, can the NYT stop writing shilling articles about us? I mean, alot of this wouldn't be happening if western countries were allowed to have balls and simply close the borders.

    No, instead we have a bunch of human HIV avatars make the most asinine of claims. Not even jihadists would come up with such whiny bitchy rhetoric.

    No muslims don't feel marginalized or some horseshit like that. The only legitimate argument these hymies have is that we hate western zionists. Everything else is just low IQ tribal people being as low IQ tribal people do.

    For the love of God, stop defending us. We don't want to be part of the same coalition as homos and transgendered freaks.
    , @kaganovitch
    There is an increasingly popular trend among salafi muslims to reject kosher slaughter as halal because the name of allah is not invoked on each animal slaughtered consecutively, only on the first in the string. It is actually a violation of jewish law/halacha to recite the blessing on slaughter for each animal in a consecutive string. Fwiw this is not entirely a new opinion among muslims but a revival of an old controversy that had been seemingly settled in favor of kosher as halal for centuries.
    , @syonredux

    Well that settles it they’re barking mad.

    “There’s kosher food, but no halal meat.” Kosher meat is acceptable in Islam. To be halal the animal must be slaughtered in the name of god , Kosher complies with that requirement.
     
    Yeah, the rule is that everything kosher is halal, but everything halal is not kosher.Hence, a devout Muslim can freely eat kosher food.

    Matter of fact, I remember a Near Eastern Studies prof of mine back at Berkeley commenting that Muslims who went to Western unis in the early part of the 20th Century were advised to buy their food at Jewish shops
  10. Maybe they feel victimised because Farhad Khosrokhavar and his ilk constantly encourage them to feel victimised.

    “Indeed, reform must begin with respect” Yes, the muslims should start showing respect for the native French. Not committing armed robbery against them would be a good start.

  11. On the topic of Muslim resentment toward whites, nobody can exceed Derbyshire:

    http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Britain/hesperophobia.html

    http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Britain/hesperophobiacontinued.html
    (part II was refused publication by national review)

    The 1991 Gulf War showed how little has changed since those first encounters. Here were the armies of the West: swift, deadly, efficient, equipped and organized, under the command of elected civilians at the head of a robust and elaborate constitutional structure. And here were the Arabs: a shambling, ill-nourished, shoeless rabble, led by a mad gangster-despot. (That was their Arabs. There were also, of course, our Arabs — the Kuwaitis and Saudis, cowering in their plush-lined air-conditioned bunkers being waited on by their Filipino servants while we did their fighting for them.) Final body counts: the West, 134 dead, the Arabs, 20,000 or more. The superiority of one culture over another has not been so starkly demonstrated since a handful of British wooden ships, at the end of ten-thousand-mile lines of communications, brought the Celestial Empire to its knees a hundred and fifty years earlier. The Chinese are still mad about that: they are still making angry, bitter movies about the Opium Wars. A hundred and fifty years from now, the Arabs will not have forgotten the Gulf War.

    • Replies: @Front toward enemy
    Well no wonder Part ll was denied, it dared tread into the no-go zone aka HBD. Whatever else can be said, HBD is the "love that must never be mentioned." There, we are now all safe from the clutches of those who acknowledge Darwin. Never speak of this again.
  12. Radical Islam is even spreading among Maori prisoners in NZ. Now we laugh. Soon we won’t. Remember 3000 is a lot in a country the size of NZ.

    Maori Muslims

    There is a small but growing amount of conversions among the wider New Zealand population and Islam is the fastest growing religion amongst the Maori community.[2] The 2001 census figures shows that 3000 Europeans registered as Muslim in 2001. Census figures show the number of Maori Muslims increased from 99 to 708 in the 10 years to 2001. But Kireka-Whaanga, the leader of “Aotearoa Maori Muslim Association” (AMMA), said numbers had shot up since September 11, as global media focused on radical Islam. The AMMA, the most influential Maori Muslim movement, has roots in the Hawkes Bay province. They view Tino Rangitiratanga as a form of jihad and that Islam is the perfect vehicle for Maori nationalism. Most Maori converts are being drawn to the faith through anti-Pakeha sentiment and a fascination with al Qaeda and the radical chic of Black Muslim icons such as Malcolm X.

  13. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The simple and obvious solution is that Muslims don’t like life in France, then they should go home, and live amongst the ummah.
    If an employee, any employee at all, bitches about his job to his boss, that’s the first thing his boss will say to him ‘ if you don’t like it here, you’re free to go, I’m not forcing you to stay here’.
    Apparently, if an employer says this to an employee, it’s not deemed to be rude, ill-mannered or below the salt, but it’s regarded as being ‘robust and realistic advice, and ‘plain, honest speaking’.
    But for some unfathomable reason stating the obvious to the millions upon millions of vicious ingrate immigrants squatting on European soil is somehow seen, socially at least, as advocating legal child abuse.
    Unless the white west can get past this cowardly silliness, it’s finished.

  14. @donut
    Well that settles it they’re barking mad.

    “There’s kosher food, but no halal meat.” Kosher meat is acceptable in Islam. To be halal the animal must be slaughtered in the name of god , Kosher complies with that requirement. The clown that wrote the article knows this and Abdelkarim should but he may not since he thought it was ok to stick a weapon in someone's face to rob them and that is most emphatically NOT in accordance with Islamic law.
    Here's a thought : to make them feel less disenfranchised maybe we could apply Sharia law in some cases , like theft for instance . So cut his hand off , that way we could show our respect for his religion , and at the same time ensure he can't pick up anything that doesn't belong to him.

    Agreed. The rare win-win-win

  15. Sounds like the same arguments that keep racism alive and well here in the States.

  16. Why is it that Left Wingers only refer to Islam as a religion of peace, but never give out that compliment to other religions ? Are Left Wingers trying to say that all other religions in the world are barbaric and backwards compared to Islam ?

    When was the last time Left Wingers wrote a positive article about a Non Islamic religion ?

    You will never see a Left Wing article titled “Quakers A Religion Of Peace” or “Scientologists A Religion Of Peace”.

    • Replies: @Nathan Hale
    For the same reason a politician uses the rhetorical device, 'we are united.' It's because the opposite is true and those smart enough know it and it's wishful thinking for the rest.

    A friend said to me the other day that whites commit crime at the same rate as blacks. I didn't respond.
    , @Martin
    "Unlike Christianity, it has an anti-Western and anti-imperialist bend."

    There's your answer, right there.
  17. @donut
    Well that settles it they’re barking mad.

    “There’s kosher food, but no halal meat.” Kosher meat is acceptable in Islam. To be halal the animal must be slaughtered in the name of god , Kosher complies with that requirement. The clown that wrote the article knows this and Abdelkarim should but he may not since he thought it was ok to stick a weapon in someone's face to rob them and that is most emphatically NOT in accordance with Islamic law.
    Here's a thought : to make them feel less disenfranchised maybe we could apply Sharia law in some cases , like theft for instance . So cut his hand off , that way we could show our respect for his religion , and at the same time ensure he can't pick up anything that doesn't belong to him.

    >>…he thought it was ok to stick a weapon in someone’s face to rob them and that is most emphatically NOT in accordance with Islamic law.

    Unless the robbery victim is a dirty kaffir, then all is fair.

    • Replies: @gzu
    "Unless the robbery victim is a dirty kaffir, then all is fair."

    Citation needed.
  18. @donut
    Well that settles it they’re barking mad.

    “There’s kosher food, but no halal meat.” Kosher meat is acceptable in Islam. To be halal the animal must be slaughtered in the name of god , Kosher complies with that requirement. The clown that wrote the article knows this and Abdelkarim should but he may not since he thought it was ok to stick a weapon in someone's face to rob them and that is most emphatically NOT in accordance with Islamic law.
    Here's a thought : to make them feel less disenfranchised maybe we could apply Sharia law in some cases , like theft for instance . So cut his hand off , that way we could show our respect for his religion , and at the same time ensure he can't pick up anything that doesn't belong to him.

    “Here’s a thought : to make them feel less disenfranchised maybe we could apply Sharia law in some cases , like theft for instance . So cut his hand off , that way we could show our respect for his religion , and at the same time ensure he can’t pick up anything that doesn’t belong to him.”

    Heh heh. I like your style.

    Honestly though, can the NYT stop writing shilling articles about us? I mean, alot of this wouldn’t be happening if western countries were allowed to have balls and simply close the borders.

    No, instead we have a bunch of human HIV avatars make the most asinine of claims. Not even jihadists would come up with such whiny bitchy rhetoric.

    No muslims don’t feel marginalized or some horseshit like that. The only legitimate argument these hymies have is that we hate western zionists. Everything else is just low IQ tribal people being as low IQ tribal people do.

    For the love of God, stop defending us. We don’t want to be part of the same coalition as homos and transgendered freaks.

  19. Terrorists like to take hostages and demand release of prisoners in return for sparing the hostages’ lives. Someday it will occur to someone that we have jails full of prisoners – or hostages, depending on your point of view..

  20. @Daniel H
    >>...he thought it was ok to stick a weapon in someone’s face to rob them and that is most emphatically NOT in accordance with Islamic law.

    Unless the robbery victim is a dirty kaffir, then all is fair.

    “Unless the robbery victim is a dirty kaffir, then all is fair.”

    Citation needed.

  21. OT: Saw a headline about one of Steve’s favorite topics on the San Francisco Chronicle website:

    Price for Bob Hope’s ‘UFO House’ Cut in Half

    http://tinyurl.com/qjh3krm

  22. “Look at how a Catholic or a Jew is treated, and look at how we are treated,” Abdelkarim, a Frenchman of Italian origin in his late 20s who was serving a five-year sentence for armed robbery, told me in 2012.”

    Abdelkarim, a fine old Italian name, like Luigi, or Giuseppi, or Abdelrahman.

  23. Allah hates us and is trying to bury us alive in white stuff. It’s the Great White Death 2015!

  24. “alienation from the dominant culture, thanks partly to joblessness and discrimination in blighted neighborhoods”

    “Partly” raises a couple of interesting questions:

    1. How much is partly?
    2. What makes up the other parts?

    I’ll venture a couple of guesses:

    1. Less than half.
    2. Some combination of (i) conflicts between these immigrants home and adopted countries’ cultures that are fundamentally incompatible and (ii) intentional resistant by these immigrants against assimilation.

  25. @Jefferson
    Why is it that Left Wingers only refer to Islam as a religion of peace, but never give out that compliment to other religions ? Are Left Wingers trying to say that all other religions in the world are barbaric and backwards compared to Islam ?

    When was the last time Left Wingers wrote a positive article about a Non Islamic religion ?

    You will never see a Left Wing article titled "Quakers A Religion Of Peace" or "Scientologists A Religion Of Peace".

    For the same reason a politician uses the rhetorical device, ‘we are united.’ It’s because the opposite is true and those smart enough know it and it’s wishful thinking for the rest.

    A friend said to me the other day that whites commit crime at the same rate as blacks. I didn’t respond.

    • Replies: @David R. Merridale
    A friend said to me the other day that whites commit crime at the same rate as blacks. I didn’t respond.

    You should have enough guts to squash that one. How 'bout, "Hmm... I hate to say it, but I *think* it's actually higher for blacks. What does Wikipedia say?" That's the least you could do.

    Unless it's a close friend, in which case you laugh and say, "Fuck no, man, it's like five times higher for blacks."

  26. @Lot
    On the topic of Muslim resentment toward whites, nobody can exceed Derbyshire:

    http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Britain/hesperophobia.html

    http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Britain/hesperophobiacontinued.html
    (part II was refused publication by national review)


    The 1991 Gulf War showed how little has changed since those first encounters. Here were the armies of the West: swift, deadly, efficient, equipped and organized, under the command of elected civilians at the head of a robust and elaborate constitutional structure. And here were the Arabs: a shambling, ill-nourished, shoeless rabble, led by a mad gangster-despot. (That was their Arabs. There were also, of course, our Arabs — the Kuwaitis and Saudis, cowering in their plush-lined air-conditioned bunkers being waited on by their Filipino servants while we did their fighting for them.) Final body counts: the West, 134 dead, the Arabs, 20,000 or more. The superiority of one culture over another has not been so starkly demonstrated since a handful of British wooden ships, at the end of ten-thousand-mile lines of communications, brought the Celestial Empire to its knees a hundred and fifty years earlier. The Chinese are still mad about that: they are still making angry, bitter movies about the Opium Wars. A hundred and fifty years from now, the Arabs will not have forgotten the Gulf War.
     

    Well no wonder Part ll was denied, it dared tread into the no-go zone aka HBD. Whatever else can be said, HBD is the “love that must never be mentioned.” There, we are now all safe from the clutches of those who acknowledge Darwin. Never speak of this again.

  27. @jefferson

    A couple of years ago I noticed that the phrase “mission trip”
    appears about once a year in the NYT. Out here in flyover America everyone I know is running off to Honduras, Ethiopia, etc on their own dime, building wells, donating sports equipment, etc. But to the NYT the concept barely exists.

    • Replies: @Formerly CARealist
    Here in CA, every church I've ever been in does mission trips. Tons of them. The bigger the church, the more places they go. To every continent.
    A group in our church just got back from digging wells in Uganda. That was after a group came back from working at an orphanage in the Philippines. Then there was the group that brought Bibles into China. And that's just in the last few months.

    If I were to start listing local ministries (both physical and spiritual) this post would be pages long. and we're just one church.
  28. @donut
    Well that settles it they’re barking mad.

    “There’s kosher food, but no halal meat.” Kosher meat is acceptable in Islam. To be halal the animal must be slaughtered in the name of god , Kosher complies with that requirement. The clown that wrote the article knows this and Abdelkarim should but he may not since he thought it was ok to stick a weapon in someone's face to rob them and that is most emphatically NOT in accordance with Islamic law.
    Here's a thought : to make them feel less disenfranchised maybe we could apply Sharia law in some cases , like theft for instance . So cut his hand off , that way we could show our respect for his religion , and at the same time ensure he can't pick up anything that doesn't belong to him.

    There is an increasingly popular trend among salafi muslims to reject kosher slaughter as halal because the name of allah is not invoked on each animal slaughtered consecutively, only on the first in the string. It is actually a violation of jewish law/halacha to recite the blessing on slaughter for each animal in a consecutive string. Fwiw this is not entirely a new opinion among muslims but a revival of an old controversy that had been seemingly settled in favor of kosher as halal for centuries.

  29. Sheesh, the NYT really is becoming a parody, isn’t it?

  30. Leftists claim to hate patriarchy, but always treat non whites as children whose actions are always the result of bad parenting on behalf of whites.

  31. “Now I understand. Since only European-descended white folk can be racist, everyone else is “counterracist.””

    Counterracist… It’s the new reverse discrimination.

  32. @Veracitor
    "Many Muslims feel marginalized when they get to prison, due to . . . their own counterracism."

    Ah, yes, "counterracism." I was wondering what motivated those moslem prisoners.

    Now I understand. Since only European-descended white folk can be racist, everyone else is "counterracist."

    It's sort of like how we knew that fellow Zimmerman was white. He was racist (he killed one of Obama's imaginary sons) so obviously he was white. If Trayvon Martin had killed Zimmerman, that would have been counterracism, don't you see?

    Yes, Counterracism. Surely everything can be made better if we just frame all actions as a retaliation for some earlier (centuries earlier if necessary) perceived transgression or slight. There’s no way that could turn out badly.

    I’ll assume that the stylesheet of the NYT has been amended to refer to the holocaust only as “The Great Retribution”

  33. Not sure how new it is, but there seems to be a movement to connect the grievances of Muslim criminal guests, Jihadi apologists, and the ongoing issue of black criminality. For example, the guy who made up # BlackLivesMatter is a Palestinian of some sort, and the rhetoric is similar. ( i.e. apartheid, genocide, etc.)

    It’s like the two worst PR firms in the world decided to merge.

  34. @donut
    Well that settles it they’re barking mad.

    “There’s kosher food, but no halal meat.” Kosher meat is acceptable in Islam. To be halal the animal must be slaughtered in the name of god , Kosher complies with that requirement. The clown that wrote the article knows this and Abdelkarim should but he may not since he thought it was ok to stick a weapon in someone's face to rob them and that is most emphatically NOT in accordance with Islamic law.
    Here's a thought : to make them feel less disenfranchised maybe we could apply Sharia law in some cases , like theft for instance . So cut his hand off , that way we could show our respect for his religion , and at the same time ensure he can't pick up anything that doesn't belong to him.

    Well that settles it they’re barking mad.

    “There’s kosher food, but no halal meat.” Kosher meat is acceptable in Islam. To be halal the animal must be slaughtered in the name of god , Kosher complies with that requirement.

    Yeah, the rule is that everything kosher is halal, but everything halal is not kosher.Hence, a devout Muslim can freely eat kosher food.

    Matter of fact, I remember a Near Eastern Studies prof of mine back at Berkeley commenting that Muslims who went to Western unis in the early part of the 20th Century were advised to buy their food at Jewish shops

    • Replies: @Veracitor
    The complaint about a lack of halal meat may stem from the prison offering a vegetarian or ovo-vegetarian (pareve) diet to those keeping kosher. That would simplify things for Jews, but such a diet, while lawful for muslims, might disappoint those who hunger for animal flesh.
  35. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Glaivester
    In summary, you know those massacres of cartoonists and kosher shoppers? White people were at fault.

    Actually, I think that the Hebdo cartoonists were partly at fault for their own deaths for their hatred of those people who were trying to protect France from the Muslim threat. I feel the same way when someone who petitions for the National Front to be banned gets killed by a Muslim that I do when an SPLC contributor gets murdered by blacks in a park.

    It's Timothy Treadwell all over again.

    Actually, I think that the Hebdo cartoonists were partly at fault for their own deaths for their hatred of those people who were trying to protect France from the Muslim threat.

    Now that the dust has settled I feel that it’s better them than me. Their own pets turned around and bit them. Had the target been a group of National Front members I doubt the Hebdo people would have cared in the slightest. In fact they probably would have produced some of their pornographic cartoons mocking the victims. I suppose it would mark me as a bad person were I to utter the words ‘good riddance’ in the company of some upscale type people so it’s always best not to say what one might really think.

  36. yes, muslims are really mistreated in france
    for example manuel valls, the prime minister, was there at the inauguration of cergy’s mosque
    http://www.liberation.fr/societe/2012/07/06/manuel-valls-a-cergy-pour-la-nouvelle-mosquee_831705

    a mosque that is financed by the state indirectly, they can’t do it directly because it is illegal but the mosque is built on a land possessed by the state that they give to the muslims for free
    this mosque’s imam was openly suporting the muslim brotherhood:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

    “The motto of the Brotherhood was traditionally “Believers are but Brothers”. That was expanded into a five-part slogan: “Allah is our objective; the Qur’an is the Constitution; the Prophet is our leader; jihad is our way; death for the sake of Allah is our wish.””

    http://www.leparisien.fr/espace-premium/val-d-oise-95/l-imam-claque-la-porte-de-la-mosquee-modele-27-12-2013-3442447.php

    there are thousands of mosques in france, most built either buy the state directly (which is illegal) or indirectly (which is immoral and potentially illegal) or even worse, financed by foreign states like saudi arabia

    regarding halal meat, every meal provided by the state has muslim-compatible aliments: no pork for example, and a lot of chicken or fish
    ofcourse full halal meal is available if you are willing to pay for it
    but it doesn’t stop here
    most of the meat we eat in france is halal
    for example if you buy meat in ile de france (paris and the suburbs) all the meat available is halal
    if you don’t want to eat halal meat, all you can do is stop eating meat
    it is the same with minor differencies in every part of france

    so yes, france is really mistreating islam

    this claim is so hilarious
    i can go on
    did you know that amedy coulibaly, the terrorist, had met the president nicolas sarkozy?how many people in france can say that they had a meeting with the french president in l’elysée?
    it doesn’t stop here
    the guy who created “SOS racisme”, julien dray, said that he knew amedy coulibaly, that he was a very promising boxer in the sports club that he financed (with public money):

    http://lelab.europe1.fr/De-la-boxe-thai-au-terrorisme-Julien-Dray-raconte-le-parcours-d-Amedy-Coulibaly-qu-il-a-croise-en-tant-qu-elu-de-l-Essonne-20634

    kouachi was also shown in a TV propaganda piece about the muslim youth: (pro muslim ofcourse)

    the politician malek boutih also talked about corrupt politicians who pactised with terrorists, radical islamists, and criminals:

    http://www.lepoint.fr/politique/emmanuel-berretta/malek-boutih-des-elus-locaux-corrompus-ont-pactise-avec-les-gangsters-et-les-islamo-nazis-13-01-2015-1896131_1897.php

    there are countless examples

    • Replies: @frederic
    a clarification: all the meat produced in ile de france is halal, a lot of the meat that you find there has been produced elsewhere in france
    overall, it is estimated that more than 30% of the meat produced in france is halal
    you have no way of knowing if the meat you buy is halal or not
    meat that is sold as halal is undoubtedly halal, but the reast of the meat can be halal or not, you can't know
    so it's safe to say that in france, the meat we eat is halal
  37. @Glaivester
    In summary, you know those massacres of cartoonists and kosher shoppers? White people were at fault.

    Actually, I think that the Hebdo cartoonists were partly at fault for their own deaths for their hatred of those people who were trying to protect France from the Muslim threat. I feel the same way when someone who petitions for the National Front to be banned gets killed by a Muslim that I do when an SPLC contributor gets murdered by blacks in a park.

    It's Timothy Treadwell all over again.

    “Actually, I think that the Hebdo cartoonists were partly at fault for their own deaths for their hatred of those people who were trying to protect France from the Muslim threat.”

    I’d guess that the average Charlie Hebdo cartoonist would espouse at least as much of a visceral, malicious, personal hatred of me for who I am as would the average Muslim. Probably more than the average Muslim but some of the fundamentalist Islamic definitely and actively frown upon people like me.

    Basically, I wish I could live in a place far, far away from either type where I’d have little or no contact with them and they would have little or no effect on my or my family’s lives.

    Oh wait, I already do… And this is probably the best available, if imperfect, solution, since Hebdoites and Islamic fundamentalists have worldviews that are fundamentally incompatible with mine and it doesn’t look like anyone (including me) is of much inclined to change their minds.

  38. @Glaivester
    In summary, you know those massacres of cartoonists and kosher shoppers? White people were at fault.

    Actually, I think that the Hebdo cartoonists were partly at fault for their own deaths for their hatred of those people who were trying to protect France from the Muslim threat. I feel the same way when someone who petitions for the National Front to be banned gets killed by a Muslim that I do when an SPLC contributor gets murdered by blacks in a park.

    It's Timothy Treadwell all over again.

    Philippe Lançon, a writer for Charlie Hebdo and survivor of the massacre says:

    It so happens that at that last meeting the subject of debate was none other than French jihadists. Tignous was by no means defending them but, true kid of the banlieues and survivor of poverty that he was, he wondered just what France had actually done to avoid creating these furious monsters, and launched into a magnificent rant on behalf of these latter-day misérables. It was as if suddenly his voice was reaching us from the time of the Paris Commune. Bernard Maris retorted that France had done plenty, had lavished tons of cash. The volume increased—at Charlie Hebdo this subject is all the more sensitive because everyone is horrified at the thought of being seen as racist or cynical.

  39. @frederic
    yes, muslims are really mistreated in france
    for example manuel valls, the prime minister, was there at the inauguration of cergy's mosque
    http://www.liberation.fr/societe/2012/07/06/manuel-valls-a-cergy-pour-la-nouvelle-mosquee_831705

    a mosque that is financed by the state indirectly, they can't do it directly because it is illegal but the mosque is built on a land possessed by the state that they give to the muslims for free
    this mosque's imam was openly suporting the muslim brotherhood:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

    "The motto of the Brotherhood was traditionally "Believers are but Brothers". That was expanded into a five-part slogan: "Allah is our objective; the Qur'an is the Constitution; the Prophet is our leader; jihad is our way; death for the sake of Allah is our wish.""

    http://www.leparisien.fr/espace-premium/val-d-oise-95/l-imam-claque-la-porte-de-la-mosquee-modele-27-12-2013-3442447.php

    there are thousands of mosques in france, most built either buy the state directly (which is illegal) or indirectly (which is immoral and potentially illegal) or even worse, financed by foreign states like saudi arabia

    regarding halal meat, every meal provided by the state has muslim-compatible aliments: no pork for example, and a lot of chicken or fish
    ofcourse full halal meal is available if you are willing to pay for it
    but it doesn't stop here
    most of the meat we eat in france is halal
    for example if you buy meat in ile de france (paris and the suburbs) all the meat available is halal
    if you don't want to eat halal meat, all you can do is stop eating meat
    it is the same with minor differencies in every part of france

    so yes, france is really mistreating islam


    this claim is so hilarious
    i can go on
    did you know that amedy coulibaly, the terrorist, had met the president nicolas sarkozy?
    http://www.rtl.be/info/GED/00300000/301600/301645.jpg
    how many people in france can say that they had a meeting with the french president in l'elysée?
    it doesn't stop here
    the guy who created "SOS racisme", julien dray, said that he knew amedy coulibaly, that he was a very promising boxer in the sports club that he financed (with public money):

    http://lelab.europe1.fr/De-la-boxe-thai-au-terrorisme-Julien-Dray-raconte-le-parcours-d-Amedy-Coulibaly-qu-il-a-croise-en-tant-qu-elu-de-l-Essonne-20634

    kouachi was also shown in a TV propaganda piece about the muslim youth: (pro muslim ofcourse)

    http://img1.telestar.fr/var/telestar/storage/images/2015/articles/news/attentat-a-charlie-hebdo-cherif-kouachi-un-des-deux-suspects-etait-apparu-68419/690083-1-fre-FR/Attentat-a-Charlie-Hebdo-Cherif-Kouachi-un-des-deux-suspects-etait-apparu-dans-un-reportage-tele-Video_width620.jpg

    the politician malek boutih also talked about corrupt politicians who pactised with terrorists, radical islamists, and criminals:

    http://www.lepoint.fr/politique/emmanuel-berretta/malek-boutih-des-elus-locaux-corrompus-ont-pactise-avec-les-gangsters-et-les-islamo-nazis-13-01-2015-1896131_1897.php

    there are countless examples

    a clarification: all the meat produced in ile de france is halal, a lot of the meat that you find there has been produced elsewhere in france
    overall, it is estimated that more than 30% of the meat produced in france is halal
    you have no way of knowing if the meat you buy is halal or not
    meat that is sold as halal is undoubtedly halal, but the reast of the meat can be halal or not, you can’t know
    so it’s safe to say that in france, the meat we eat is halal

  40. @syonredux

    Well that settles it they’re barking mad.

    “There’s kosher food, but no halal meat.” Kosher meat is acceptable in Islam. To be halal the animal must be slaughtered in the name of god , Kosher complies with that requirement.
     
    Yeah, the rule is that everything kosher is halal, but everything halal is not kosher.Hence, a devout Muslim can freely eat kosher food.

    Matter of fact, I remember a Near Eastern Studies prof of mine back at Berkeley commenting that Muslims who went to Western unis in the early part of the 20th Century were advised to buy their food at Jewish shops

    The complaint about a lack of halal meat may stem from the prison offering a vegetarian or ovo-vegetarian (pareve) diet to those keeping kosher. That would simplify things for Jews, but such a diet, while lawful for muslims, might disappoint those who hunger for animal flesh.

  41. You guys are going down. The mainstream is against you.

    • Replies: @Untermenschen
    Take a ticket and get in line.
  42. RE: Halal meat,

    There are some minor differences between the requirements of the two faiths. These difference would generally be negligible and irrelevant to Muslims, but not to observant Jews.

    1) Jewish law requires a specific type of person (called a shochet) to slaughter. Typically, the shochet is an observant male Jew trained in the practice of slaughter. Islamic law allows any male or female Christian, Muslim or Jew to sacrifice as long as that person follows the proper procedure of slaughtering. Therefore, it is primarily for this reason that a dhabīḥa animal can never be kosher for observant Jews because the slaughter would be performed by a Muslim.

    2) The perfection of the knife blade – Jewish law requires visual and physical inspection; Islamic law only requires a sharp knife even if there are some imperfections (e.g., minor abrasions and nicks would be permissible in Islam).

    3) Jewish law requires one continuous stroke for a slaughter (moving the knife back and forth would be allowed), whereas Islamic law would prefer one stroke, but the slaughter would not be invalidated if the slaughterer quickly followed a first improper stroke with another one.

    4) In Jewish law, the knife must be at least two times the size of the animal’s neck, and perfectly straight, whereas there is no such requirement in Islam.

    5) Jewish law completely forbids stunning, and a stunned animal would be treif; Islamic law is not unified on this point, as most authorities would consider stunning makrūh, but as long as the animal is alive and has a pulse, the slaughter would still be considered ḥalāl.

    6) Depending on which Islamic madhab one followed, the number of passages in the neck of the animal cut might be less for some opinions of Islamic law (however, a perfect cut in both religions would require the esophagus, trachea, arteries and jugular).

    7) While the disconnecting of the spine is prohibited in both laws, in Jewish law this would render the animal treif, whereas according to the majority opinion in Islamic law, this is makrūh but does not render the animal ḥarām (note that some authorities would view such an act as making the animal ḥarām).

    8) Jewish law requires a visual inspection of the lungs and some other internal organs of the animal after slaughter. Specific defects associated with these organs makes the animal treif, whereas the total absence of any imperfection (i.e., adhesion-free lungs) renders the animal a higher level of kosher, called glatt kosher. If such a level of perfection was not achieved, but the procedure was followed, the meat would merely be kosher. And some type of defects would in fact render the animal treif even after proper slaughter. There is no equivalent to such a post-slaughter examination in Islamic law.

    9) The animal’s blood must be allowed to flow into the earth (or on the ground) in Jewish law (for example, it should not be gathered in a bowl), whereas there is no such prohibition in Islamic law. In practice, most Muslims slaughter and spill the blood on the ground as well.

    10) Islamic law encourages, but does not require, that the animal faces the qiblah. Since this is not a requirement according to any madhhab, it is irrelevant to the question of whether kosher is ḥalāl.[6]

    11) While the Jewish invocation (i.e., blessing) is not a necessary requirement for the meat to be considered kosher, it is in practice never left. This issue will be discussed in a separate section.

    From all of these points, it is clear that these factors will not render kosher meat ḥarām; most are in fact rulings that make the halakhic laws stricter than their Sharʿī equivalents, and even the Islamic ones on this list are recommendations and not requirements. Hence, from the perspective of the Sharīʿa, these factors are not relevant.

    Of course, because of some or most of these factors (especially the first one), ḥalāl meat cannot be considered kosher by Jewish authorities.

    Major Difference – the Tasmiya Issue

    There is one major differences between the two laws that cannot be overlooked and could potentially result in a verdict of taḥrīm,[7] and that is the issue of the tasmiya.

    The Islamic opinions on mentioning Allah’s name at the time of sacrifice are well-known. It is clear that the majority of scholars (and the explicit texts of the Qurʿān and Sunnah) require the utterance of tasmiya before an animal is slaughtered. It is with this opinion in mind that we proceed. (It goes without saying that, for the minority who do not require tasmiya, obviously if they do not require a Muslim to mention the name of Allah then a priori they would not require a non-Muslim to do so).[8]

    Halakhic law states that the shochet should verbally bless the act of slaughter with a specific blessing.[9] While this blessing is not considered an essential requirement, in practice it is always done, and it is realistically inconceivable that a shochet intentionally abandons this blessing.[10]

    The formulation of this blessing translates as:

    “Blessed are you , Adonai [G-d], our G-d, Lord of the World, Who Sanctified us through His Commandments and instructed us concerning proper animal slaughter”

    The wording clearly praises God, and therefore would be acceptable to the vast majority of madhhabs, since it is not a necessary requirement that the blessing be said in Arabic. However, the issue comes with respect to a unique blessing for each animal.

    Since the Jewish faith insists that the name of the Lord only be invoked with good cause, the shochet does not repeat this blessing for each and every animal. Instead, the shochet considers one blessing to suffice for a series of animals with the condition that each animal is slaughtered without any significant pause or break from the previous one. [11]

    Therefore, in theory, a shochet could sacrifice a few cows, and maybe even up to a hundred chicken, with one blessing.

    All of this, of course, has relevance to the Sharʿī ruling on an animal.

    For the minority that does not require tasmiya (in particular, the Shāfʿī school), this issue would not be relevant, and therefore kosher would be ḥalāl.

    For those who subscribe to the position that allows one tasmiya for multiple slaughters, kosher meat would also be ḥalāl.

    For those who require a specific tasmiya for each individual animal (in particular, the Ḥanafī school), kosher meat would not be ḥalāl unless it was known for sure that a blessing was given for that animal.

    http://muslimmatters.org/2012/06/22/is-kosher-meat-%E1%B8%A5alal-a-comparison-of-the-halakhic-and-shar%CA%BFi-requirements-for-animal-slaughter/

  43. @Jefferson
    Why is it that Left Wingers only refer to Islam as a religion of peace, but never give out that compliment to other religions ? Are Left Wingers trying to say that all other religions in the world are barbaric and backwards compared to Islam ?

    When was the last time Left Wingers wrote a positive article about a Non Islamic religion ?

    You will never see a Left Wing article titled "Quakers A Religion Of Peace" or "Scientologists A Religion Of Peace".

    “Unlike Christianity, it has an anti-Western and anti-imperialist bend.”

    There’s your answer, right there.

  44. Abdelkarim, a Frenchman of Italian origin

    Wow, that “of Italian origin” is really helpful!

    Reminds me of an old Jewish joke. Mr. Shapiro goes to city hall to request a name change–to Sinclair . It’s done. A week later he returns. “I’d like to change my name from Sinclair to Sailer.” The clerk, who remembers him from a week earlier, expresses surprise, so Shapiro/Sinclair explains: “Everyone who meets me asks me, ‘But what was your name before it was Sinclair?’.”

    • Replies: @International Jew

    Abdelkarim, a Frenchman of Italian origin
     
    Wow, that "of Italian origin" is really helpful!

    Reminds me of an old Jewish joke. Mr. Shapiro goes to city hall to request a name change--to Sinclair . It's done. A week later he returns. "I'd like to change my name from Sinclair to Sailer." The clerk, who remembers him from a week earlier, expresses surprise, so Shapiro/Sinclair explains: "Everyone who meets me asks me, 'But what was your name before it was Sinclair?'."
  45. @Nathan Hale
    For the same reason a politician uses the rhetorical device, 'we are united.' It's because the opposite is true and those smart enough know it and it's wishful thinking for the rest.

    A friend said to me the other day that whites commit crime at the same rate as blacks. I didn't respond.

    A friend said to me the other day that whites commit crime at the same rate as blacks. I didn’t respond.

    You should have enough guts to squash that one. How ’bout, “Hmm… I hate to say it, but I *think* it’s actually higher for blacks. What does Wikipedia say?” That’s the least you could do.

    Unless it’s a close friend, in which case you laugh and say, “Fuck no, man, it’s like five times higher for blacks.”

    • Replies: @Nathan Hale
    It was a friend from the fortune 500 we both work at; a hyper-political feminist. I find it best not to engage.
  46. The excellent French flick “Un Prophete” brilliantly captured the burgeoning Muslim crime problem in France. I won’t spoil the ending, but the ending has an ingenious ending that is part plot twist and part demographic wake up call. Check it out

  47. @International Jew

    Abdelkarim, a Frenchman of Italian origin
     
    Wow, that "of Italian origin" is really helpful!

    Reminds me of an old Jewish joke. Mr. Shapiro goes to city hall to request a name change--to Sinclair . It's done. A week later he returns. "I'd like to change my name from Sinclair to Sailer." The clerk, who remembers him from a week earlier, expresses surprise, so Shapiro/Sinclair explains: "Everyone who meets me asks me, 'But what was your name before it was Sinclair?'."

    Abdelkarim, a Frenchman of Italian origin

    Wow, that “of Italian origin” is really helpful!

    Reminds me of an old Jewish joke. Mr. Shapiro goes to city hall to request a name change–to Sinclair . It’s done. A week later he returns. “I’d like to change my name from Sinclair to Sailer.” The clerk, who remembers him from a week earlier, expresses surprise, so Shapiro/Sinclair explains: “Everyone who meets me asks me, ‘But what was your name before it was Sinclair?’.”

  48. I have never been a racist. I have always been a counterracist. If I ever referred to myself as a racist, I was mistaken; I meant “counterracist.”

    Very few guards are Muslim, and prison officials, who tend to be hypersecular, have little understanding of Islam, for example confusing fundamentalism with extremism.

    “Don’t they know they’re supposed to release us from prison 5 times a day for prayers? It’s our religion!”

    It’s almost as if violent criminals aren’t the most unbiased sources of information.

    Yeah. It’s one thing to have, say, a Jew or two in your prison. A rabbi can probably be scrounged up to go and see them on a regular basis. Too many Muslim prisoners for that.

    For some inmates, especially those who were only nominally Muslim and nonpracticing, violent aspirations emerge first, with religiosity — and often a very approximate understanding of Islam — grafting itself onto to them later.

    I suppose the take-home point is that even nominal, nonpracticing Muslims suck?

    “There’s kosher food, but no halal meat.” Kosher meat is acceptable in Islam. To be halal the animal must be slaughtered in the name of god , Kosher complies with that requirement. The clown that wrote the article knows this and Abdelkarim should but he may not since he thought it was ok to stick a weapon in someone’s face to rob them and that is most emphatically NOT in accordance with Islamic law.

    Banditry against the infidel is prohibited in Islam? Somehow I had the opposite impression.

    Citation needed.

    Life of Muhammed? Where are all the booty and slaves supposed to come from?

    A friend said to me the other day that whites commit crime at the same rate as blacks. I didn’t respond.

    Why not? He’s clearly wrong. Do you let “the Moon is made of green cheese” pass, too?

    Leftists claim to hate patriarchy, but always treat non whites as children whose actions are always the result of bad parenting on behalf of whites.

    Great construction, very concise.

  49. No need for judges to be Boy Scout leaders. Instead, they can form their own organization, the “Judges-Who-Are-Definitely-Not-Boy-Scouts-of-America,” an organization that is totally distinct, but happens to hang out with the Boy Scouts a lot.

  50. The five Chechen immigrants arrested last week in France were plotting a Charlie Hebdo-related reprisal attack. They had explosives and were ready to roll. Caucasians were literally at fault.

  51. Kosher and Halal are both barbaric and should have been banned in the West a long time ago.

  52. @Tiny Duck
    You guys are going down. The mainstream is against you.

    Take a ticket and get in line.

  53. @David R. Merridale
    A friend said to me the other day that whites commit crime at the same rate as blacks. I didn’t respond.

    You should have enough guts to squash that one. How 'bout, "Hmm... I hate to say it, but I *think* it's actually higher for blacks. What does Wikipedia say?" That's the least you could do.

    Unless it's a close friend, in which case you laugh and say, "Fuck no, man, it's like five times higher for blacks."

    It was a friend from the fortune 500 we both work at; a hyper-political feminist. I find it best not to engage.

  54. @Grink
    @jefferson

    A couple of years ago I noticed that the phrase "mission trip"
    appears about once a year in the NYT. Out here in flyover America everyone I know is running off to Honduras, Ethiopia, etc on their own dime, building wells, donating sports equipment, etc. But to the NYT the concept barely exists.

    Here in CA, every church I’ve ever been in does mission trips. Tons of them. The bigger the church, the more places they go. To every continent.
    A group in our church just got back from digging wells in Uganda. That was after a group came back from working at an orphanage in the Philippines. Then there was the group that brought Bibles into China. And that’s just in the last few months.

    If I were to start listing local ministries (both physical and spiritual) this post would be pages long. and we’re just one church.

  55. Here it is, 19 times in the past five years, anywhere in the newspaper.

    http://query.nytimes.com/search/sitesearch/#/%22mission+trip%22/from20100127to20150127/

    Often not in flattering contexts: once for a kid accused of raping Kenyans on a mission trip, once where funds were misused, once involving an indicted Republican candidate in South Dakota, once about a murderer, once in a clergy abuse lawsuit…

  56. Here in CA, every church I’ve ever been in does mission trips. Tons of them. The bigger the church, the more places they go. To every continent.
    A group in our church just got back from digging wells in Uganda. That was after a group came back from working at an orphanage in the Philippines. Then there was the group that brought Bibles into China. And that’s just in the last few months.

    It’s popular down here in Dixie, too… Self-congratulatory, thinly disguised tourism. Never mind what J. C. said about peepul who make a big show of their prayers or their charity.

    Exotic locales are hip. Europe or Holy Land trips are for retirees.

    Ask your mission trippers how many Bibles they’ve handed out door to door in Muslim lands or in da projeks in their own home towns.

    • Replies: @Formerly CARealist
    Those are good points. I'm sure some people have mixed motives, and there's always a lot of excitement over going to some places. But they're not staying in nice hotels and they're spending a lot of their own money. And the overseas churches and missions keep asking for them to come back. If our efforts don't help, we learn and don't go back.

    Don't be too quick to judge. We have numerous local ministries to immigrant groups. Giving the gospel to Muslims here in the US is easier than you think. They already accept the Bible as a Holy Book and will agree to pretty much anything you say about God the Father. They just want Mohammed to be worshipped along with Jesus. Giving out Bibles door-to-door in Muslim lands? Hmm... I don't know, but it sounds dangerous. Mostly our missionaries in those places have some sort of "cover" to try to stay under the radar.

    As to the NY Times, they are utterly clueless about America.
  57. “You should have enough guts to squash that one. How ’bout, “Hmm… I hate to say it, but I *think* it’s actually higher for blacks. What does Wikipedia say?” That’s the least you could do.

    Unless it’s a close friend, in which case you laugh and say, “Fuck no, man, it’s like five times higher for blacks.”

    A lot of Blacks are conspiracy theorists who believe the reason why there are more Blacks than Whites in prison is not because Whites commit less crime, it is because most of the time the racist KKK Grand Dragon police force turn a blind eye to White people committing crimes. The KKK Pigs give White criminals a pass most of the time, hence why America’s prison population is not a Whitopia.

  58. French prisons have become a breeding ground for Islamist extremism partly because they mistreat the Islamic faith.

    Okay, so, what is the other part?

  59. Sailer’s solution for the problem of the 0.001% of Muslims who become terrorists and kill people in Europe:

    Ban the immigration of 100% of Muslims into Europe.

    Yes, that makes sense. Just ignore the millions of Muslims who are peaceful and don’t cause any problem and use the few rotten fruits as a pretext for getting rid aof all of the.

    How can anyone reading this not think that Sailer has other reasons besides safety for suggesting such a solution to the problem?

  60. @David Davenport
    Here in CA, every church I’ve ever been in does mission trips. Tons of them. The bigger the church, the more places they go. To every continent.
    A group in our church just got back from digging wells in Uganda. That was after a group came back from working at an orphanage in the Philippines. Then there was the group that brought Bibles into China. And that’s just in the last few months.


    It's popular down here in Dixie, too... Self-congratulatory, thinly disguised tourism. Never mind what J. C. said about peepul who make a big show of their prayers or their charity.

    Exotic locales are hip. Europe or Holy Land trips are for retirees.

    Ask your mission trippers how many Bibles they've handed out door to door in Muslim lands or in da projeks in their own home towns.

    Those are good points. I’m sure some people have mixed motives, and there’s always a lot of excitement over going to some places. But they’re not staying in nice hotels and they’re spending a lot of their own money. And the overseas churches and missions keep asking for them to come back. If our efforts don’t help, we learn and don’t go back.

    Don’t be too quick to judge. We have numerous local ministries to immigrant groups. Giving the gospel to Muslims here in the US is easier than you think. They already accept the Bible as a Holy Book and will agree to pretty much anything you say about God the Father. They just want Mohammed to be worshipped along with Jesus. Giving out Bibles door-to-door in Muslim lands? Hmm… I don’t know, but it sounds dangerous. Mostly our missionaries in those places have some sort of “cover” to try to stay under the radar.

    As to the NY Times, they are utterly clueless about America.

  61. @Wilkey
    In other news, the California Supreme Court has banned judges from serving as leaders in the Boy Scouts. You wanted your shitty, authoritarian, Third World judiciary, well you got it.

    Gays: "Oh hey, you know all that bullshit we fed you about accepting our homosexuality because 'live and let live'? We were totally kidding!"

    P.S. We'll know the worth of a Republican presidential nominee based in part on whether or not he chooses to turn this news story into a campaign issue.

    Winner of France’s ‘Mr Gay’ competition supports FN

    http://www.libertarianrepublican.net/2015/01/frances-mr-gay-for-2015-is-marine-le.html

    But we have been through all this with the French communist party,which got 20% of the vote in 1978, and then saw their support fade away. The country is not going to have the FN participating in government under any circumstances. For one thing, French banks’s balence sheets consist largely of potentially toxic loans to Italy that Italy can’t pay back. France needs Germany to guarantee the whole system, so the Germans could pull the rug from under any government with the FN in it quite easily

  62. A lot of Blacks are conspiracy theorists who believe the reason why there are more Blacks than Whites in prison is not because Whites commit less crime, it is because most of the time the racist KKK Grand Dragon police force turn a blind eye to White people committing crimes. The KKK Pigs give White criminals a pass most of the time, hence why America’s prison population is not a Whitopia.

    True; then you have to go further into crimethink and point out that crime victimization surveys actually show blacks are (slightly) under-arrested and -convicted. Further into right-but-racist territory. Then, when they say those books are cooked, too, you can (ostensibly) double back to PC town by saying if that’s the case then YT is hopelessly racist and non-YT must be evacuated from his presence, stat.

  63. (please delete. Posted under wrong thread).

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