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From the New York Times:

What if Cities Are No Longer the Land of Opportunity for Low-Skilled Workers?

Dense cities like New York have long promised higher wages, but now that is primarily true for workers with more education, a new analysis finds.

By Emily Badger and Quoctrung Bui, Jan. 11, 2019

… cities no longer offer low-skilled workers the economic advantages they once did, according to new analysis by the M.I.T. economist David Autor.

Workers, whether with a college degree or not, could long count on earning more in denser urban areas than in rural ones. Today, that pattern holds for highly educated workers — and has in fact grown much stronger. For workers without any college education, the added wage benefits of dense cities have mostly disappeared in Mr. Autor’s data:

What’s startling about that conclusion is that many economists and policymakers have suggested that workers migrate to prosperous metros to find opportunity. We don’t have many proven strategies for how to revive communities battered by changes in the economy. But we have decades of history that show that Americans have been able to lift themselves up by leaving struggling places for thriving cities.

What happens if that’s no longer true for low-skilled workers?

“People have lamented, ‘Well, all these areas that lost manufacturing, why don’t those workers just get up and go somewhere else?’” said Mr. Autor, who looked at wage data from the census and American Community Survey and recently presented the findings at the annual meeting of the American Economic Association. “It’s just not at all obvious what that place is. It’s less obvious to me now than it was a month ago.” …

Policymakers have suggested that low-skilled workers head to the same places where college-educated workers are growing wealthy, like New York and the Bay Area (although many have argued that high housing costs and strict land-use regulation in these places block lower-income workers from opportunity).

Not mentioned in this article as a possible cause for this puzzling decline in big city wage premiums for working class Americans: any words beginning with “immigra”.

 
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  1. kihowi says:

    By Emily Badger and Quoctrung Bui

    Are you saying these people aren’t genuinely concerned about the fate of working class white men?

  2. Tiny Duck says:

    This is not really new. It is trendy in the media to talk about the city/rural divide in politics and economics, but inequality has been increasing everywhere for a long time.

    As Blacks migrated from the rural South to cities through the 20th century, the “country” became more white and more racist. Republicans exploit racism to get the rural vote and wage-earning non-whites in cities necessarily vote Democratic, although they are essentially falling behind as much as those in the “country”.

    This is yet antoher example of the dismal failure of the white male patriarchy and why we NEED diversity in government

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
    , @anon
  3. L Woods says:

    Don’t worry — when the children of low skill immigrants are granted preferences in college admissions and hiring, the wage premium for educated workers will go away too.

  4. Weird thing is that the connection has been known since at least the 18th-century. The International Working Men’s Association was founded in other to prevent the immigration of foreign workers to drive down wages.

    These days though, probably too sexist!

  5. Years from now, when they develop a thumbnail sketch of this era of Trump and the Yellow Vests, I’ll bet the fictional world of the Hunger Games series will be used by a smart pop historian to explain it all. I hope so because it captured things quite well. “The Capitol of Panem is a technologically advanced, utopian city where the nation’s most wealthy and powerful citizens live”.
    http://thehungergames.wikia.com/wiki/The_Capitol

    Have a look at the other regions linked under “Universe” in the top banner. It’s really quite politically astute for a teen & young adult book series.

    • Agree: Simon in London
  6. Social capital plays a crucial role in this too. Moving away from extended family and friends deprives the internal migrant of a valuable support network. So the costs and risks of moving are much higher than captured in pure wage differential models.

    • Agree: Trevor H., Twinkie
    • Replies: @International Jew
  7. IHTG says:

    Sure, there’s that – but it would actually be more interesting (and potentially more rhetorically useful for reactionaries) if cities were no longer good for the working class regardless of immigration.

  8. True, immigration drives down wages. But it also destroys the neighborhoods that blue collar workers would live. A regular white guy from a more rural or Rust Belt area might be willing to move to the NYC or San Fran or LA or DC area if he could find a white, working-class neighborhood where he could send his kids to school with other working-class white kids.

    But those neighborhoods are mostly gone and the remaining ones under threat. Working class neighborhoods are now a mix of whites (maybe, unless they’ve all left), Hispanics, blacks and, to some degree, Asian.

    A white working class guy will have to live around large numbers of non-whites if he moves to a NYC or San Fran or DC. Upper-middle class whites can mostly buy their way out of the vibrancy, but working class whites can’t. As a result, they’d rather just stay where they are and live with their own kind.

  9. Tim says:

    I think it’s still booming in North Dakota. If I was unemployed I’d go there . . . or to the Army. Actually, I’d probably go into the Army. It’s almost impossible to get fired in the Army.

  10. Iberiano says:

    Everything is a variant of the “better schools” cliche. No one knows why there are “better schools” in __________…similar to “I like to live in X because INSERT SOME POLITICALLY, SOCIALLY AND RACIALLY NEUTRAL claim”

    “There’s not tons of jobs in INSERT LARGE URBAN area…I’ll just move to ________” (Boise, Omaha, Northern Canada, etc etc etc).

  11. Anon[366] • Disclaimer says:

    The academic in question, David Autor, himself seems pretty interested in immigration. Here are his lecture notes for a class he’s taught called “The Economics of Immigration”:

    https://economics.mit.edu/files/555

    There are a lot of tables, including one showing how the Mariel boatlift depressed wages for blacks in Miami.

    So I wonder whether the AEA presentation might have included more than is being reported in the Times?

  12. I grew up in the city of Buffalo, in the Kensington-Bailey neighborhood. Walking distance from my house was the Chevrolet axle plant and forge on Delevan Avenue, probably 3000 people worked there on three shifts. A short bus ride took you to the huge Westinghouse plant on Genesee Street or the Curtiss-Wright plant on Grider street The Republic Steel mill and the Donner-Hanna coke ovens were minutes away on South Park Ave. from city hall. Bethlehem Steel’s mammoth plant was over a bridge from downtown. Beside steel mills and coke ovens there were foundries and refineries in the city. None of these plants and their jobs exist now or actually from the 80s. Cleveland was the mirror image of Buffalo. Where has this guy been living.

  13. Steve uses the term “working class,” the article uses the term “low skilled.”

    So does that mean “low skilled” equals “working class”?

    Not entirely.

    If there is a major collapse of infrastructure caused by natural or political disaster, who do they send in to fix it? Lawyers, market researchers, journalists, intellectuals, consultants, educators, accountants, veterinarians, sales executives, philosophers, and other “high skilled, upper class” nation builders?

    Or do they send in the low skilled, working class tradesmen who say the word “fuck” too much?

    Perhaps the terminology has been reversed. How about instead of low “skilled/high skilled” we use “essential skilled/inessential skilled.

    • Agree: Dtbb, Cleburne
  14. peterike says:

    Maybe Times writer Quoctrung Bui has some insight as to what might be behind this mystery.

    • Replies: @Gordo
  15. Lagertha says:

    Here’s a good one for ya : I call it The Paradox for Progressives/Democrats. The letters are insane! Enjoy.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/nyregion/bill-de-blasio-state-of-city.html.

  16. Anon[366] • Disclaimer says:

    Here’s Autor’s presentation.

    https://economics.mit.edu/files/16560

    The search phrase in question doesn’t pull up anything.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  17. Daniel H says:

    >>Dense cities like New York have long promised higher wages, but now that is primarily true for workers with more education, a new analysis finds.

    And that’s why we must dismantle the borders and accelerate the migration of tens of millions of uneducated, low-skilled third worlders to our urban cores because……….well, that’s just who we are.

  18. Jack D says:

    People have lamented, ‘Well, all these areas that lost manufacturing, why don’t those workers just get up and go somewhere else?’” … “It’s just not at all obvious what that place is. It’s less obvious to me now than it was a month ago.” …

    Hillary Clinton suggests the cemetery. The best thing would be for all non-college whites (especially men) to hurry up and die so that the new era that was promised to us in 2016 can commence. Time will take care of the old ones soon enough but for the young she suggests fentanyl. As her buddy Stalin said, “no person, no problem”!

    • Replies: @Ragno
  19. lhtness says:

    Are you blaming family reunification?

  20. Anon[366] • Disclaimer says:

    The presentation includes a large section that is blanked out because of a publication embargo, involving ongoing research with another academic. Among the summary text for the embargoed slides is:

    — International and intranational migration

    — A lot of data about fertility

    This is in section III, The Changing Geography of Workers.

    Also, in section II, he reports falling employment in production work and office/clerical, but rising employment in cleaning, security, health aides.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  21. @IHTG

    That can’t happen, because there will always be an endless, reproducing supply of foreign workers with lower and lower standards.

    If ten bucks an hour for ten people crowded into a studio apartment in Queens isn’t good enough anymore for servants from one shithole country, there will always be immigrants from even shitholier places who will work for less and crowd themselves even more tightly.

    That’s the evil trick of welcoming in your tired, your poor, your wretched refuse.

    Globalism makes everyone but the elite poor. It brings down the standards to the lowest that exist anywhere in the world.

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Charles
  22. athEIst says:

    Working class neighborhoods are now a mix of whites (maybe, unless they’ve all left), Hispanics, blacks and, to some degree, Asian.

    Just watch the Hispanics ethnically cleanse the blacks away. Check out East Palo Alto or Oakland once almost all black, now Asian and primarily Hispanic, almost no blacks in East Palo Alto.

    • Replies: @Cleburne
  23. Daniel H says:

    Typical market rate 1 bed/bath, condo/ apartment in a working class NY neighborhood (Astoria, Queens, putatively Archie Bunker’s neighborhood). $659,000, before monthly maintenance. Sure, a $13/hr Honduran prep cook is gonna easily manage the financial burdens. He’ll just ease right into the American dream.

    BTW. I know this building. It’s shi**y, ugly and stupid and it requires a 3/4 mile walk to the subway.

    https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2540-Shore-Blvd_Long-Island-City_NY_11102_M34497-87610?view=qv

  24. J.Ross says: • Website

    Fumbled and years-late analyses like this are why people confidently dismiss economists as stupid.
    ——-
    Bezos’s leaked love tweets are mostly a textbook case of “evil to him that thinks it,” but there is one Rob Zombie cue: he addresses his lover as “alive girl.”
    ——-
    NPR finally mentioning that workaholic and sick elderly woman Ruth Bader Ginsberg has not been well: “Fans of Supreme Court Justice Ginsberg have reason to celebrate …” and it goes on to report as news the re-release of the positive doctor’s report from a while back. I think somewhere in there they may have mentioned that she isn’t showing up after a career of punctuality.

  25. Come on. Blaming everything and the kitchen sink on immigration is unreasonable.

    Immigration affects everything, but the specific story here, about how big city opportunity is statistically limited to the highly educated, it seems quite a stretch to simply blame immigration for that. It seems less of a reach to blame credentialing, higher education, automation, and specialization, more so than immigration.

    We are seeing similar trends worldwide.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
  26. To be super fair, the housing story really matters here.

    In Detroit, Panda Express pays $10/hour, in San Mateo County, it pays $18 and couldn’t find workers.

    Immigration matters, but so do the giant office buildings full of tech workers that fill the housing 3 times over making $100-$300K/year plus benefits.

  27. Jack D says:

    To be honest, American born white working class people haven’t been moving TO east coast American big cities since the time of the Irish Potato Famine. They have been moving OUT of them. If you are looking for founding stock Americans you are not going to find them in Boston or NYC – their ancestors moved west a long time ago. Blue collar whites in E. Coast cities tend to be from the 19th-century waves of immigration – Italian, Irish, Polish, German, etc. Even if they are British or German like Trump’s family they are from more recent waves of immigration. In the Midwest you had Founding Stock hillbillies moving north more recently (up to say the 1950s) for industrial jobs (competing with Southern blacks) but again they fled the cities for the suburbs decades ago. Modern cities hold no appeal for working class whites – either the neighborhoods are too expensive and yuppified (and the schools suck anyway – gays and singles don’t care) or if affordable they are non-white high crime slums.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @reactionry
  28. Not mentioned in this article as a possible cause for this puzzling decline in big city wage premiums for working class Americans: any words beginning with “immigra”.

    Do the immigrants themselves know this? If so, they’d be avoiding the cities themselves.

    As it is, suburbs are filling up with immigrants as well. Several thousand Somalis now live in Eden Prairie, Minnesota, possibly more than in much larger St Paul. These are the ones with jobs and cars, though. Eden Prairie is anything but Eden without both of those.

  29. Beckow says:

    Mass migration is a natural consequence of an ideology that is obsessed with ever-increasing ‘productivity and efficiency‘. Those simply mean that almost everyone works harder for less. In elite circles the term ‘reform‘ is mostly used for it (see Emmanuel Macron for the latest retarded usage).

    As we cannot square a circle, we also cannot have better lives as long as we pretend that solution to everything is working ever harder for ever less reward. The silly word-hard and libertarian Ayn Rand nonsense is keeping even smart people from seeing what is going on. We are in a downward spiral.

    What we need is better quality of life and a lot less make-believe work, most of it white-collar. Mass migration, as devastating as it has been for the Western societies, is simply a consequence of the unending religion of efficiency. Next time an economist, politician, banker or a journalist starts going on about the need for more ‘productivity‘, hand him a shovel and ask him to live by example. And hanging around a desk, chewing fat online and offline, is not ‘working hard‘, even if some manage to do it for 12 hours a day.

  30. @Buffalo Joe

    So where did all that industry go? Perhaps we (or the world) just stopped needing axle plants or forges. Steel mills? Coke ovens? What’re those? Foundries, refineries, meh.

    Oh, what’s that? You mean those activities are still happening in other countries? Huh. I wonder if they make messes in the environment. Maybe even bigger messes than what happened in Buffalo. Oh well, who cares. We have high standards here, lots of lawsuits and insurance. We’re green, yeah, really green.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  31. Jack D says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    This is not quite true in that the countries that are the poorest of the poor tend not to have a high net migration rate. People are literally too poor to afford airfare or smugglers and they are so undereducated that they are not even suited for menial manual labor in a Western country where modern laborers are expected to be able to do thing like read label instructions on cleaning products (at least in Spanish). They also tend to be far away from everything. The places that have high rates of net migration (aside from places that are unstable such as Venezuela or Zimbabwe or in which the people have the legal right to emigrate such as Puerto Rico) are places that are maybe 3/4 of the way down the rankings rather than all the way at the bottom and are close to the US (e.g. the Caribbean) or Europe (e.g. N. Africa).

    Compare Net Migration Rate to GDP Ranking and you’ll see what I mean:

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2112rank.html

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  32. istevefan says:

    They are acting as though this is something new when in fact it has been going on since at least the late 1970s. As manufacturing has shifted to low wage nations, opportunity for low skilled workers in the USA dropped. Add to that massive immigration of low wage people, and what remains of the jobs available to low skilled labor became harder to obtain and wages were depressed.

    I remember in the late 1980s hearing pundits on TV saying that the US no longer needed to manufacture cars and other such items. That type of work was boring, repetitive and dangerous, and that other nations were doing us a favor by taking on that task. Instead our workers should be retrained to learn about computers!

    Once I recalled in the 90s when Lou Dobbs was at CNN, he had a free trade hawk discussing the offshoring of manufacturing. The hawk told Dobbs that the government should help fund education to retrain displaced workers via our fantastic junior college system. Lou asked the hawk which jobs should they retrain for? The hawk stumbled and said he didn’t know. Lou then said something like, “that’s not very helpful if you don’t even know what to train for.” The hawk angrily replied to Lou that Americans were just going to have to adjust to the fact that one could no longer expect to be employed in one field for their career and that multiple career changes were in store for them.

    I think one of the problems we have had is that our decision makers have been mostly comprised of our academic elite from Harvard and Yale. We don’t have many Harry Trumans anymore. As a result our decision makers believe everyone is capable of retraining to become tech workers. Just open a book and learn on your own. It’s easy. I did it, so can you.

    They don’t understand that you have to have low skill jobs for a large segment of your population. They don’t appreciate and respect manual labor, whether skilled or unskilled. Everything in our society is about going to college. I recall when old timers used to say that any honest work was good work to be proud of. Now you rarely hear that. If you don’t have a 4 year degree, or increasingly a post-grad degree, you are looked down upon.

    Trump has found that $100 bill Steve keeps referring to when it comes to manufacturing jobs and trade. Let’s home in addition to immigration Trump remains true on trade and continues the re-industrialization of the USA.

  33. The Z Blog says: • Website

    OT: The Deep State is among us.

    https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/278423/an-improvised-explosive-device

    I’ll note that the writer was fired by Bill Kristol for too much honesty.

  34. NYT: It No Longer Pays Working Class Americans to Move to Big Cities, Nobody Knows Why

    They can’t get a seat in the coffee shop. Here’s a solution:

    • Replies: @Forbes
  35. Natureboy says:

    I knew a guy that moved to Baltimore from Appalachia to work at the Sparrow’s Point Shipyard in the 1960’s. After he retired, (with the obligate back pain/problems) his neighborhood got worse. He and both adult son’s and their families all moved back to their ancestral home in the mountains. He was happy to be back amongst his own kind. Stereotypically, fish and game laws were just suggestions to him.

  36. Forbes says:

    Big cities might have been a blue collar draw after the turn of the 20th century, certainly not after the turn of the 21st century. But that was when farm productivity soared with mechanization (meaning fewer farm workers) and skilled employment with a high school diploma was the norm. And that was when manufacturing was blue collar–a skilled and well-paying job.

    The article seems confused regarding blue collar work, referring to “low-skill workers,” but typical blue collar work was not low-skilled. Plumbers, electricians, operating engineers, carpenters, et al., and most factory work had the apprentice, journeyman, training track to high wages and benefits.

    For decades, big cities have not hosted factory work, as what hasn’t been off-shored had moved to the suburbs and exurbs where land was cheaper and space wasn’t a premium–and coincided with the flight away from high crime and dysfunctional communities.

    The trend in the ’60s, ’70s, and ’80s was away from the cities, especially northern cities. Sun belt locales such as Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Phoenix, and Southern California benefited as places to live, not especially as blue collar employment magnets.

    As Buffalo Joe knows, the Upstate NY cities of Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse have lost 50% of their population since 1960, with the flight to the sunbelt, not necessarily big cities on either coast.

  37. Forbes says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    LOL!

    Talking Communicating among one another is a lost art among the younguns…

  38. What’s startling about that conclusion is that many economists and policymakers have suggested that workers migrate to prosperous metros to find opportunity not a goddam thing, since even cats, dogs, and toddlers know that sharing finite resources (say, food) means less for each of them. I know all that stuff, too; I’m just an asshole who is unaffected and who, in fact, benefits by writing horse-shit for gulls.

    I wonder how many times drafts in that vein get read across the cubicles amongst colleagues and they all chuckle and high-fived as they worked through the charade. (“No, no; wait – I know you think that’s funny, but listen to what we are actually running: “It’s all a baffling mystery!” The chortling no doubt swells anew.)

  39. anon[681] • Disclaimer says:

    Trump really is a moron and a sellout. He tweeted today that he’s going to change the H1b law to make it much easier for companies to “hire talent” (what happened to hire American?) and for them to gain citizenship. First of all, does he not know that all the Asian techies are leftards? Second, what happened to Buy American, Hire American? He campaigned specifically to stop replacement of US workers by H1b, and now here he is going completely against what he said.

    If he makes good on this promise, I’m not going to vote for him in 2020. There’d be no point. Either the wall is already built or it’ll never be built, and his policy on legal immigration is as bad as what the Dems give us. What a lying weasel ass clown this Trump is. So much for draining the swamp. He IS the swamp!

  40. “Dense cities like New York have long promised higher wages, but now that is primarily true for workers with more education, a new analysis finds.”

    Gee, ya don’t say!!!

  41. Daniel H says:

    >> “It’s just not at all obvious what that place is. It’s less obvious to me now than it was a month ago.”

    Says the author of the study, David Autor, of MIT, 52 years old, previously of Tufts and Harvard. What he no doubt had been observing for quite a few decades of his 52 years, that the working class was bering crushed, he couldn’t believe or trust to his lying eyes. Theory, ideology and narrative told him otherwise. So, it took a research paper (his own!) from MIT to gently nudge him to the fact of working class immiseration. Know hope. Right.

  42. Most of the social conflict in the West is now boiling down to a conflict between city and country. The rise of the modern liberal left is in large part due to urbanisation, which socially privileges urban liberals over rural conservatives. Neoliberal economics is in large part about making the big cities rich at the expense of the periphery. Immigration is mostly about the movement of third world city people to western big cities. Green politics is mostly about the promotion of urban environmental concerns and getting the people outside of big cities to pay for their environmental initiatives. And the Nationalist/populist reaction is largely about trying to redress the current power balance which favours urban areas and urban concerns.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  43. @Jack D

    [caution: WTLTR and way, way too much of me, myself and I]

    Hit The Road, Joad?
    Or: “Varieties of Cohens”*** Caftans, Cravats, Kravitzes, Like Whatever…

    I suspect that many if not most iSteve readers have long had similar thoughts about the relatively recent literal lack of mobility of poor white deplorables.
    And Dagnabbit, Jack D; you beat me to it. From time to time I recall a visit over a half century ago to my maternal grandparents who were living in Chicago. Granddad* said something about hearing sounds of gunfire from, not blacks, but “hillbillies.”
    -might as well condemn in advance anything along the lines of “The Grapes of Roth” or possible sour grapes from a Philip Roth (I’ve read almost nothing by him**) character not getting into, say, a Shagetz golf club, let alone mention (from VDARE or iSteve?) that Emma Lazarus (at least at one time) was less than keen on immigration by embarrassingly “uncultured” (hillbilly like?) Ostjuden.
    Btw., unfortunately my Goyishe Kopf doesn’t have a “Talmudic” quality memory, so was unable to recall only the title of “Cravat Jews and Caftan Jews” (threw out copies of Commentary Magazine many years ago) from

    https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/cravat-jews-and-caftan-jews/
    Googling the above also returned the following (which I suspect has already been mentioned on iSteve –

    https://www.commentarymagazine.com/anti-semitism/the-hyper-whitening-of-the-jews/

    And nope, never saw “The Apprencticeship of Duddy Kravitz” – and am familiar with Lenny Kravitz only because of the musical and tribal interests of my second wife and youngest daughter.

    In my humble hillbilly-ish opinion the following bit from the old National Lampoon was funny – well, *when first broadcast*

    * Granddad’s name was “James Irving Heller” – and nope, he wasn’t
    ** however did manage to skim through “Goodbye Columbus”- speaking of which, please see John Hinderaker’s “Happy Genocide Day”
    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/11/happy-genocide-day.php
    – well written, but see his “overwhelmed demographically” – which sure smells like genocide to me.
    *** “Varities of Cohens” – nasty, yet memorable anti-Semitic slur – which when Googled, also returned this familiar and deeply depressing classic:
    https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/communism-anti-semitism-the-jews/
    (Etymology of “Kravitz” is apparently Slavic – as in “Croat,” “tailor,” “cut”)

  44. I laugh whenever I hear people justify these wetbacks with the words “They want a better life”. Who doesn’t? The majority of these people are barely literate and bring nothing to the table. How many leaf blowers and bus boys do we need? This is not the late 19th-early 20th century. The labor market in the US is capital intensive, not labor intensive. These people only serve to depress wages even more than they already are ,with the net result being that not only does the American worker suffer but the immigrants suffer along with them. The Ivy crowd doesn’t care of course. After all they live in another universe altogether.

  45. Anonymous[251] • Disclaimer says:

    “People have lamented, ‘Well, all these areas that lost manufacturing, why don’t those workers just get up and go somewhere else?”

    Otherwise known as the Williamson-Kristol economic theory, which itself was heavily influenced by the great economist Marie Antoinette. She did the hard work of running the real-time experiments for her economics with surprising results!

  46. @Buffalo Joe

    I was in Cleveland about three years ago and found the place depressing. When I was a kid, I recall Cleveland as being a vibrant city. It still boasts of a world class symphony orchestra (Cleveland Orchestra) and medical center (Cleveland Clinic) but beyond the R&R Hall of Fame there’s no “there” there. Very sad…very, very sad.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  47. @istevefan

    They are acting as though this is something new when in fact it has been going on since at least the late 1970s. As manufacturing has shifted to low wage nations, opportunity for low skilled workers in the USA dropped. Add to that massive immigration of low wage people, and what remains of the jobs available to low skilled labor became harder to obtain and wages were depressed.

    It’s almost as if they were trying to wreck the country or something.
    Or at the very least enslave it.

    Why would anyone want to do such a thing, unless perhaps they were consumed with tribal hatred for all ‘outgroups’? But whose ethos ever suggested such a thing?

    This reminds me: I’m going to corner the market on yellow vests in this country.
    Or am I too late..

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    , @istevefan
  48. Anon[395] • Disclaimer says:

    Eh

    Teamsters slam proposal to fill trucker shortage with immigrant workers

    The union says non-union driver wages in Ontario have remained stagnant for close to 35 years.
    “Trucking companies can’t move overseas, so they’re trying to bring cheap labour to Canada,” François Laporte, the president of Teamsters Canada, said in a news release.

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/teamsters-slam-proposal-fill-trucker-shortage-immigrant-workers-173930938.html

    An unconverged union, I’m amazed something like this still exists in the most cucked country on the planet.

  49. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:

    So the rural areas will probably stay White. I wonder how this all plays out in the long run.

  50. Bill P says:

    Cities aren’t even that great for the middle class, nevermind the working class.

    Say you’re an aspiring young college grad who manages to get an 80k/year job in Seattle, which is above the median even in that city. You meet a nice young lady who makes 50k working for a nonprofit. Now you’ve got a household income of 130k. Great, huh?

    So you get married and look for a house. A total piece of crap starter house goes for 700k, and you’re not sure it’s worth it, but you get talked into it. Hey, with the combined income it’s affordable, right?

    So the woman gets pregnant and you’re so happy, all’s well, there’s family leave for three months, that’ll do it, and she can go back to work, right? WRONG, SUCKER!

    Now you’ve got no family in town, mortgage alone eats up 40%+ of your 80k income, and you don’t qualify for subsidies or welfare because you’re over the limit (which means it isn’t even worth it for your wife to go back to work anyway due to childcare costs). Maintenance on your junker of a house is eating up your savings, groceries are way more than they used to be, and your a-hole boss doesn’t care that you’re a dad and would rather not work nights and weekends.

    Suddenly you’re miserable and feeling poor, you have no time or money to go out with friends, and it seems the entire city is involved in a conspiracy to suck you dry, which it actually is.

    Contemporary American cities suck, literally. Young people should stay out of them unless they are heirs.

    • Agree: Daniel H
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Luke Lea
  51. Anon[395] • Disclaimer says:

    The Petitions Committee decided not to debate this petition
    The Committee has decided not to schedule a debate on this petition because the UN Global Compact on Migration has already been agreed by the UK Government. The final text of the Compact was agreed by the UK Government in July last year. It was adopted by the UN General Assembly in December. You can find more about how the Compact was agreed in this House of Commons Library research note:

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/232698

    This is what they think of us

  52. Most of the social conflict in the West is now boiling down to a conflict between city and country.

    America is significantly more “country” than are Canada and Australia, which are giant wastelands with populations packed into a few big cities. So many effects should be more pronounced in those countries. Japan is similar, if smaller.

    Neoliberal economics is in large part about making the big cities rich at the expense of the periphery.

    Traditionally, at least in America, free trade has always been an agrarian’s crusade. The industrialists in the cities wanted protection. It may be different now.

    Immigration is mostly about the movement of third world city people to western big cities.

    Immigrants are wising up, though, and moving to the suburbs first. And working in the exurbs, roofing and drywalling those ugly white-flight garages storage lockers houses.

  53. Anonymity says:

    Trump is tweeting that H1-b deal is in the works … too bad for all young American programmers … you’re SOL

    Trump also downplayed the emergency declaration today … what a cynical prick … DACA amnesty has been his goal all along … the emergency makes Kushner’s DACA deal irrelevant so the emergency will be threatened but of course never implemented …

    Most cynical preezy evah!

  54. @unpc downunder

    Look at biofuels. There was support for them in the urban press, until -OMG, the hicks are starting to have money, stop it now!

  55. @Bill P

    Contemporary American cities suck, literally. Young people should stay out of them unless they are heirs.

    What about more modest cities in the interior? Louisville, Grand Rapids, Green Bay, Omaha, Dubuque? They have the same problems as the star cities, but at a much more tolerable level. And it’s much cheaper.

    A question posed on Quora recently asked about big city folk moving to smaller cities and towns, but bringing their big-city ways and politics. A rather snotty woman answered that people like her had high-paying careers, and all the jobs were in the cities. But once you can telecommute, or self-employ, you can live much more cheaply among the deplorables you deplore.

    But good God, adopt their way of thinking? Horrors!!!

    • Replies: @Bill P
  56. Anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @istevefan

    Every low-skilled job eventually goes away. Yet there is something between sandwich artist and industrial chemist. There will always be. Whether it’s welding or HVAC or carpentry it is possible to make more than enough to live in a suburban house sans college degree on the market salary. Used to be something called “private sector unions” to represent this group. I don’t see why a job at a bottling factory, or driving a UPS truck or in a coal mine has to be preserved at all costs forever, but you are right, the replacement can’t be “whatever The Economy says.”

    Trump can’t credibly tell everyone that if you like your factory shrinkwrapping job you can keep it. No one really believes that. But as Rick Santorum pointed out it is fully within our political class’s power to regulate in favor of social stability, by getting a tariff to protect a steel mill, while declining to do favors for the boutique florist in TriBeCa you like — or the streaming video provider whose CEO donates to your campaign warchest. Our political class is willfully stupid about utilitarian considerations of the regulatory burden, because they’ve been captured by rich lawyers since way back.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  57. @Jack D

    Yeah, I figured as much. That’s good to know. So, American workers will only have to lower their standard of living 3/4 of the way to the bottom.

    The principle holds, and we still have further down to go. When you start at or near to top, it’s a long way down. Those data links are indeed interesting, though.

    Remember: I do not have a Ph.D. in economics like every other commenter here, so my scenario could be completely wrong. I’m sure there are many theories out there proving that eventually, sometime in this century, everyone except the most primitive and remote bushmen will fall to that bottom 1/4 rung, and there won’t be any cheaper replacement labor. Then everyone will start moving up together, as the giant, global economy grows, like one, big China filled with desperate and eager workers. A rising tide will raise all laboring boats around the world, and everyone will speak Mandarin.

  58. trelane says:

    It may be possible for humans to survive on a diet of insects. They’re high in protein and can be produced in large numbers relatively cheaply. Isn’t this possibly the answer to America’s white male problem?

  59. Ragno says:
    @Jack D

    Your comments were savagely, painfully funny. If only they weren’t the truth….

  60. @Captain Willard

    On the other hand, if your extended family is large and strongly bonded through loyalty and intramarriage (say, your caste and sub-caste if you’re Indian) then you can move to a new city and hit the ground running. Get hired at a local software shop, get in on the local taxi monopoly, etc.

    It used to be that way with us Jews, but assimilation, a low birthrate, and a loosened sense of in-group solidarity have worked their effect. (In particular, anyone here who thinks that a Jew in Harvard’s admissions office looking at my son’s application is going to give a damn that he’s Jewish, just doesn’t know what he’s talking about.)

  61. What’s startling about that conclusion is that many economists and policymakers have suggested that workers migrate to prosperous metros to find opportunity. We don’t have many proven strategies for how to revive communities battered by changes in the economy. But we have decades of history that show that Americans have been able to lift themselves up by leaving struggling places for thriving cities.

    Basically, the study found that the gap between wage rates of non-college rural inhabitants and non-college urban inhabitants has converged since 1950.

    As Steve notes, however, it never occurred to the authors to also notice how the racial composition of these two groups has also changed over the same period. The urban cohort is now much more Hispanic than before, while the rural cohort is (relatively) more white. That change in racial composition alone probably explains the whole convergence in rural/urban wage rates.

    But since they are not allowed to look at the changed racial demographics of the two groups, they can’t explain why this wage convergence has occurred. Instead, they can only opine on the supposed effect of the change — which they imagine to be that American workers have lost out on a surefire way to easily raise their wages by moving.

    But this is pretty implausible. No serious economist has ever really proposed that American workers could make more money by moving, but that they left this money laying on the table because they were just too dumb to figure it out.

    To the contrary, economic theory (and reality) is that workers relocate to seek out higher wages and capital relocates to seek out lower wages. Thus, the supply and demand (as in every other market) converge on an equilibrium cost-adjusted wage rate. (i.e, effectively equal rates that incorporate the different costs of living in the different areas.)

    In short, a relative decline in the wage rates for low-skilled urban workers probably has nothing to do with the nature of the economy itself, but everything to do with who is now living in these cities.

    • Agree: ben tillman
  62. @trelane

    I sense that some of the commenters here that have been burned in bad divorces feel like post-coital male praying mantisses.

  63. @Anonymous

    while declining to do favors for the boutique florist in TriBeCa you like

    I thought that Tribeca was the stupidest name for an SUV. Then I looked it up and TriBeCa seems to have the highest birth rate in the city. Whodathunkit?

  64. Bill P says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Smaller cities, although not ideal, are much better for a lot of reasons. Telecommuting is an option for some, and it ought to be more common, but it still isn’t an easy solution if you have small children. My wife telecommutes most of the week, but we couldn’t really pull that off until my youngest got into preschool, and only then because I arranged my schedule to have some time off in the middle of the week.

    I’m hopeful that big city people are mostly conscious of the problems they left behind and don’t want to replicate them in their new homes. I’d guess that’s the case for most of them ( myself included), but the problem is older than this recent trend.

    The thing is, lots of small city elites have been progressive hypocrites for decades already. They gravitate toward education, government and media, so you’ll often find a bigger ideological gap between elites and common people in rural counties than in urban ones. This has a profound negative effect on the ability of non-elite Americans to make themselves heard at a national level.

    When you have politicians or reporters or academics going to some place like Dubuque, who do you think gets their ear first and foremost? Most of the time, it’s going to be some progressive at the local college, newspaper or public employees’ union or the like, and these people are less representative of their neighbors than their big city counterparts.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  65. epebble says:

    It is not so much city vs. country; Globalization of labor costs makes low skilled work low paying everywhere. It just makes living in cities more difficult due to higher expenses (due to higher real estate cost). So, the rational behavior is to go in search of lower cost locales within the country. Immigration is a big part of the story too; but even without immigration, technology and globalization would have done what we see today; may be a little slower.

    See https://www.therichest.com/rich-list/poorest-list/the-10-most-poverty-ridden-countries-in-europe/

    All spanking white countries; poorer than say, Brazil or Mexico.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    , @Romanian
  66. Moses says:

    I clicked to the NYT article and searched for “immigr” but found zero matches. Weird.

    It’s almost as if the Narrative Elites are actively trying to conceal that mass low skill immigration pushes down wages for low skilled Americans.

  67. @Reg Cæsar

    America is significantly more “country” than are Canada and Australia, which are giant wastelands with populations packed into a few big cities.

    Not eastern Canada. Plan a vacation in Quebec province’s “Eastern Counties”, Reg. You won’t regret it. (Mosquito season advisory as per Minnesota of course; don’t go in June).

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  68. istevefan says:
    @Mr McKenna

    I wish we could get a yellow vest movement. We need normal people to take to the streets for a change. We have had enough protests of freaks and the coalition of the fringes. It’s high time we get middle class Americans to march for their future.

    PS. It’s Friday and I find myself eagerly anticipating what tomorrow has in store for France. For the past few weeks I keep hoping this is the day they really do it and try to throw that f**ker Macron out.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    , @Pericles
  69. Yet another reason NY or SF aren’t attractive to the white working class: rich white people to compare yourself to. A Mexican looks at the grand residences lining upper 5th Avenue and thinks, Maybe they’ll pay me to clean that. An American thinks, How did they get there, and I didn’t?

    (A Chinese immigrant thinks, My kid will buy that someday, and let me move in.)

    • Agree: Nicholas Stix
    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  70. @Nigerian Nationalist

    I had never heard of these dudes. Thanks for the info. Apparently this group was pretty impressive,with Karl Marx coming in to speak.

  71. istevefan says:

    OT – This black woman is going off on immigration. Let’s hope her attitude catches on with the black community.

  72. “America is significantly more “country” than are Canada and Australia, which are giant wastelands with populations packed into a few big cities.“

    America’s “countryness” has always been overrated. At one point in the early 20th century, something like 1 out of 18 Americans lived within the city limits of NYC.

  73. Anon[395] • Disclaimer says:

    Soon to be Mackenzie BezosBlog

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/01/10/once-sidelined-women-minorities-are-returning-labor-force/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0e44c149b803

    Job hunters: Once sidelined, women and minorities return to the workforce

    But of course, white conservatives are still blamed, and never given credit for their efforts and sacrifice.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  74. Charles says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    “shitholier” LoL. That’s a great euphemism for the Novus Ordo religion – what Patrick Henry Omlor referred to as “The Robber Church”.

  75. @Anon

    Autor is a pretty good guy.

  76. @Nigerian Nationalist

    Weird thing is that the connection has been known since at least the 18th-century.

    And Marx and Engels both wrote that immigration suppressed wages. Liberal-minded people still read Marx and Engels, right?

    • Replies: @Trevor H.
  77. Nobody Knows Why

    The financial pages of newspapers were sure that if Brexit causes a fall in immigration to the UK, then wages would have to rise. However, the same opinion was not necessarily printed in the news and comment pages.

  78. @Massimo Heitor

    Class/race war. In 1994, at the latest, I noticed that stores on Manhattan’s Ladies’ Shopping Mile (14th Street-34th Street/Sixth Avenue) had stopped hiring whites (Barnes & Noble; Bed, Bath, and Beyond; Toys R’Us, etc.), though the bosses were often white. There was plenty of work for non-white immigrants and American-born blacks and Hispanics, but any working-class, American white would be wasting his time moving here.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    , @Massimo Heitor
  79. Luke Lea says:
    @Bill P

    “Contemporary American cities suck, literally. Young people should stay out of them unless they are heirs.”

    Happiness is a part-time job in the country:

  80. @trelane

    Grub? Steak?
    Or: You Will Not Replicant Us!

    A lot of black South African Marxists (apart from the newly wealthy black elite) would probably prefer to “Eat The Rich” as in the “Fascist Insect White Farmers,” but have doubts about that being “sustainable.” It could be that as in the dreadful “Judge Dredd,” the Gobble Elite will exhort the peons to “Eat recycled food for a happier, healthier life.” However it might instead become the case that insect larvae (not rapidly disappearing white males) will be on the politically correct menu, but even in 2049, immigrant labor will likely be cheaper for farming grubs than Replicants.

    https://entovegan.com/edible-insect-farming-blade-runner-2049/

    (Btw., re I.J.’s observation (not to be confused with those regarding Praying “Mad Dog” Mattis), while Barack is not nearly as wealthy as Bezos, it’s entirely possible that the former might be survived by a Black Widow – and yes, (Upper) Class Insectivora should not be classed with Baracknophobia)

    See also – Without immigrant stoop labor (will they eventually “stoop to conquer”- or be replaced by the bots* of not-so-crazy rich East Asians?), grubs will be rotting in the fields!

    *Also see mechanized insect parasites in “Bot fly, don’t bother me…”

  81. @epebble

    Yeah…those ‘Poor White European Countries’ look absolutely awful….

    • Replies: @epebble
  82. @istevefan

    Tomorrow should be interesting. France doesn’t have the MSM fomenting the ‘everyone against everyone’ and ‘all against whitey’ thing like the USA has 24/7/365. So there’s a lot more natural solidarity there among the people.

  83. Anonymous[396] • Disclaimer says:

    In one of the more interesting New York Times articles from 2018, writer Conor Dougherty was willing to concede that immigration might just have something to do with the high prices in Vancouver’s housing market as recently as June(link)

    It included such passages as:

    Part of the reason is the attraction of Vancouver itself, and not just among Canadians. Between its natural beauty, its temperate climate and Canada’s liberal immigration policies, the city has become a magnet for foreign buyers, especially from China.

    “Unbeknownst to many people in the local population, Vancouver has been sold as a subsidized resort town and retirement community to the world,” said Josh Gordon, a political science professor at Simon Fraser University here. “We are now seeing the culmination of that dynamic.”

    What makes these gains so remarkable is that unlike Silicon Valley, London or New York — where the presence of high-paying tech and finance jobs helps explain housing costs — Vancouver has relatively low salaries. As part of their bid for Amazon’s second headquarters, Vancouver officials boasted about having “the lowest wages of all North American tech hubs.”

    How much of the city’s housing demand is coming from China is hotly debated. Government statistics show that foreign buyers own about 5 percent of the housing stock in the metropolitan area, but the numbers are several times as high for new condominiums, which helps to explain why a surge of building hasn’t done much to reduce prices, according to an analysis by Mr. Yan. And this almost certainly underestimates the influence of foreign capital, since the data exclude Canadian immigrants with money from overseas.

    The article points out(quite fairly) that Vancouver’s outdated zoning laws are also to blame, but I can’t help but wonder if the NYT’s political commissar was on vacation when the article wound its way through the editorial department.

    I’ll grant that Bentley-driving nouveau riche Chinese millionaires aren’t quite as sympathetic as scrappy Mexican maids, but the principle is the same.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  84. @Bill P

    When you have politicians or reporters or academics going to some place like Dubuque, who do you think gets their ear first and foremost?

    Trump was the first Republican to carry Dubuque County since Eisenhower. Don’t know about Dubuque city, though.

    But even the Driftless is catching the drift.

  85. epebble says:
    @Mr McKenna

    Yes, they are so pretty. Hard to believe they have a GDP of “non-white” countries. But it is not just material happiness; they all seem to be pretty miserable countries to live in too. I don’t know about Maldova; what makes it poorer than most third world countries? It hasn’t even fought in any wars.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Romanian
  86. @epebble

    Moldova was ground zero of the eastern front in WWII: tank battles went back and forth over it.

    • Replies: @Romanian
  87. Trevor H. says:
    @James N. Kennett

    Liberals are pretty much all about sex and skin color nowadays.

  88. Pericles says:
    @Daniel H

    More like the tens of millions of low-skilled third worlders can just leave our luxurious eruv playground alone and go straight to flyover country. I hear they’re NAZIS down there!

  89. Pericles says:
    @istevefan

    We need normal people to take to the streets for a change.

    Agreed. Complaining online only takes you so far.

  90. Pericles says:
    @Nicholas Stix

    Now relaunched as Bed, Bath and Black.

  91. @International Jew

    No, but they’ll probably give a Damn that you are a Sailer fan!;)

  92. @International Jew

    That was a fact in exporting factories, too. “My idiot brother-in-law makes almost as much as I do, working in a factory? That SOB deserves to lose his job!”

  93. @Anon

    Fewer unemployed to hire as bussed in protesters, bad for the left.

  94. Cleburne says:
    @athEIst

    Houston — despite having the Third Ward, which honestly looks like a nicer part of Lagos, and the dreadful Sheila Jackson Lee and other race baiters, has a good number of working-class white neighborhoods yet as well as ones populated by Texas A&M and LSU petroleum engineers whose daddies were likely roustabouts. Ditto Pasadena and Baytown, which are around the refineries. Any blacks in those neighborhoods tend to pattern themselves after the whites – pickups, hunting/fishing, going to church. Not many of them, though.

    Of course, huge parts of Houston are completely central/south American, Vietnamese, Indian and so on. Sugar land is almost all Indian medical or IT professionals; Bellaire is increasingly less Jewish/more Asian and Indian doctors who work at the Texas Medical Center.

  95. Altai says:

    I noticed the same thing happened to Dublin after 2004. No more country accents except professionals and students. If they’re low skilled they go straight off to Australia.

  96. @Tiny Duck

    No. The blacks became more racist. Try living in a black area if you aren’t black. Send daily reports, and when they stop we’ll know how long you lasted.

    Obama showed that diversity in government meant more racism in government. Do we really need more racism?

    (There is an old argument hat Blacks can’t be racist because they don’t control the power structure. Obama controlled the power structure. For that matter, live in a Black section of a city and you’ll find that you are the one apt to be charged with a criminal offense if you are assaulted and the other person calls 911 first. It’s called “practical politics”, and it’s racist.)

    Counterinsurgency

  97. @IHTG

    Cities are on their last legs. They are not important manufacturing centers anymore [1] thanks to containerization. They depend on political influence and finance for their income [2]. Their income is increasingly seen as parasitic, and they’ve lost legitimacy in the countryside (hence Trump’s election).
    Working class people (definition: those with actual blue collar jobs) in the primary industries (manufacturing, transportation, mining) have very little to do with the large cities, which simply don’t have primary production jobs. The service jobs in cities can be done by semi-skilled labor that has been moved to cities to increase political power through number of voters. That’s what keeps wages down.

    Note that there isn’t much real necessity to have software in the cities, what with the Internet. It’s more administrative convenience.

    Next big political change, good chance that cities are toast. That’s a singularity, no telling what’s on the other side, but it won’t be big cities as they now exist. Think of Rome during Late Antiquity, after the Goths destroyed its aqueducts during the Siege of Rome (AD 537–538).

    Counterinsurgency

    1] Levinson.
    _The Box_.
    Search for “London Docks” to see end of city manufacturing. I held one of the last jobs in the US Garment district once, hauling boxes from one small business to another. It really wasn’t a bad job, as jobs go. Better than most I’ve had in engineering, although the pay wasn’t very high.

    2] Copley.
    _Uncivilization_

    • Agree: Cleburne
  98. @Anon

    So, according to the study, clerical and sales are “medium skill” but construction is “low skill”.

    Only in the mind of an Ivy League geek could such a categorization gain any traction.

    • Agree: ben tillman
  99. @Daniel H

    that’s just who we are.

    “Who we are” -> hooey.

    There is a tendency to accept attempts at fraud as feeble mindeness, and act embarassed. Remember the debate when had no reply after Obama said that modern ships could be were more capable than old ships, so no modern ships were needed?

    The “psycho boss” routine is also popular: The only possible reply is “You’ve obviously lost contact with reality, time for your meds”, so no reply is made. Works best if the entire organization is a vehicle for patronage jobs, but it’s used in engineering pretty often.

    One can see accepting the psycho boss maneuver. A psycho boss can be dangerous when riled up. But to listen to the TV or radio and accept “that’s who we are” . . ., or the insinuation Romney wouldn’t know that ship capabilities have increased means anything except that the insinuator is a rather stupid bully — That’s got to stop. Hooey is hooey. Believing it is dangerous for your health, physical and mental both.

    Counterinsurgency

  100. @Beckow

    Becklow: Please do not take this personally. I am replying to a standard argument, and do not mean to imply anything about you personally. Counterinsurgency

    Standard argument: capitalism leads to evil, so capitalism must be destroyed.
    Doesn’t work, hasn’t yet. Capitalism isn’t the current problem. The world couldn’t support its current population without efficient use of land, labor, and capital.

    There are real problems.

    Example: Every industrial country in the _world_ is overpopulated. Proof: Their native population (born there, 3rd generation or more white, black, whatever) has below replacement fertility. The industrial countries are burning out high IQ workers like like commuters burn gasoline, so high IQ workers tend to have fewer kids. It’s a cycle that ends without the workers needed to sustain industrialization.

    Example: Populations with a mean IQ of 70 or so (arguably 85 or so) can’t support industrialization, and with a mean IQ of 90 or so can’t advance it.

    Trouble is, there aren’t real solutions.

    One might say (as Democrats and many Republicans do) that the loss of industrialization would be good — “Who wants industrialization, it’s destroying the planet?”, etc. I heard many such arguments back in the AD 1980s, when the US was losing its manufacturing base.
    I’m not quite that bloody minded. Close, but not there. Destroying industrialization is about killing maybe 4 billion people as the world sinks back into the industrial capabilities of c.a. AD 1950. One may think that such a sacrifice for the long term proves one’s virtue. I do not think that.

    Counterinsurgency

  101. David says:
    @International Jew

    anyone here who thinks that a Jew in Harvard’s admissions office looking at my son’s application is going to give a damn that he’s Jewish, just doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

    If we can’t trust you to be disinterested on this topic, whom can we trust? Thanks IJ, now we know!

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  102. Gordo says:
    @peterike

    I strongly suspect Ms Badger may have as well.

  103. anon[393] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tiny Duck

    Immigr…. its also affirmative action.
    The one thing that made blue collar work ( which is skilled by the way, you try it yuppie faggot)
    in urban areas where steam fitters compete with video game programmers and other cognitive elites for real estate and school seats, was unions and the wages and benefits that afforded the economic and physical security and dignity that whites, even whites with blue collars require for family formation.

    a recent immigrant gets a 100k plus benefits union job and a white is told its racist to think because his family has built the union over generations and he scores twice that of the minority on the apprentice test he should be allowed a job.So its not simply that so many immigrants were allowed in by democrats that democrats no longer cared about blue collar workers depressed wages from immigration, but democrats went further and came up with affirmative action specifically targeting unions with the first lawsuits in the early 70s.Today’s urban democrats are often immigrant minorities and having pretty much decimated the union market share now are actually anti union knowing
    that a non union job will be 100% illegal immigrant rather than only 55% minority.
    Of course th process over the past 40 years first chased the whites from living in the cities where they worked because crime particularly school crime made it impossible to raise kids even on a union salary with private schools though for a time catholic schools bridged the gap.But even in the suburbs real estate prices rose from immigration inflation as well as health care cost a typical new york union construction trades pays $12 hr towards healthcare this is good insurance but cities treat all the indigents free where as try showing up in a rural hospital with no insurance white boy you will be treated and then promptly sued for the the bill
    ironically affirmative action is coming to a cog elite profession near and dear to you it might even hit you harder since women are more likely to want these jobs instead of being 50% white men it will be more like 25%. The way the shakedown works is thus. first they sue and get an order to integrate on a schedule to be overseen by a (((special master))) with a crew of social workers, all the dindus that applied for jobs ( or thought about applying but were discouraged because they knew whitney was a hater) are given back wages tax free. Then when the next census comes out and it shows there are even more dindus in urbania than before (((they))) go back to court and find you in contempt for not anticipating this more fines bigger office and staff for special master (paid for by you) and higher quotas.Oh and they start to target the leadership because they must be the ring leaders and also they have higher white percentage so its no longer company wide but job specific.
    Oh it gets worse they start changing how things are done because they’re racist processes (meaning they expose dindu incompetence and grounds for dismissal which isnt allowed)But even after all this it turns out dindus are making less working less overtime getting fired more , is it because they only come to work four days a week and even then late because my granmuthers she be sick, or them racist cops arrested me or i pinched the foremans? Nah thats not why dindus have less hours and so earned less its because racism more fines more free money paid to dindus for all the hours they would have worked if not for whitey keepin thems down- and so it goes until whites give up and move on.

  104. @The Z Blog

    Thanks for the link to that fascinating article. I never heard of Lee Smith before and now I will have to search him out and read his other works.

    Did Kristol really fire Smith for that article?

  105. @Beckow

    What we need is better quality of life and a lot less make-believe work, most of it white-collar. Mass migration, as devastating as it has been for the Western societies, is simply a consequence of the unending religion of efficiency.

    Where does that religion come from?

  106. @stillCARealist

    still, The state of NY just forced Tonawanda Coke to shut down their coke ovens and cease business. I worked on repairing the only blast furnace in Columbia, SA. The plant was profitable until the Columbian government make them install pollution controls for air and water discharge. The plant no longer exists. Canada likes to stick their finger in America’s eye and criticize us at every turn, but they still have a huge steel making facility in Hamilton.

  107. @Prester John

    Prester, I have three children who live just west of Cleveland. It takes some one who knows the area to guide you around, but Cleveland has some redeeming features and some major crime problems. I agree it is very sad.

  108. captflee says:
    @Tim

    Tim, really?

    I wonder if command suspicion of being a reader or commenter on this very website might suffice, if not to end one’s military career, then at least to squelch much chance of future promotion and earn one a rapid unacompanied transfer to Adak or Djibouti…

  109. @International Jew

    “On the other hand, if your extended family is large and strongly bonded through loyalty and intramarriage (say, your caste and sub-caste if you’re Indian) then you can move to a new city and hit the ground running.”

    Quite right. I have been arguing for a while that small family sizes are actually a massive disadvantage. I learned this by hanging out with Indians (the curry and over-population kind, not Native Americans). Massive families that pool money together to buy houses. When you have 12 cousins and 5 siblings it is easier to collaborate.

    What chance do atomistic, individualists have when competing against that sort of thing? Instant network, etc etc.

    “It used to be that way with us Jews, but assimilation, a low birthrate, and a loosened sense of in-group solidarity have worked their effect.”

    Haven’t noticed this lessened solidarity bit. Can you elaborate?

    “anyone here who thinks that a Jew in Harvard’s admissions office looking at my son’s application is going to give a damn that he’s Jewish, just doesn’t know what he’s talking about.”

    Except I have seen relentless Jewish self promotion in academia. I haven’t been near admission committees, but in terms of other aspects of academic life there is certainly some ethnic game playing at my universities.

  110. @David

    According to a consensus of privileged jews, there’s no such thing as jewish privilege. Or at most, it’s really exaggerated. We hope this clarifies things for everyone, and thank you for your interest in this topic. Now please be good lads and lassies and return to your regularly-scheduled programming.

  111. @International Jew

    If you are Welsh you become a Mormon and move to Utah or Idaho. The support network is there. Used to work for Quakers and Methodists but that was 100 years ago.

  112. @Anonymous

    I used to spend months at a time in Burnaby. Many of the Hongcouver mansions bought in the 1990’s by Hong Kong wealthy were never occupied. They are now being taken over by the city and demolished like lieu of unpaid taxes.

  113. @Nicholas Stix

    Class/race war. In 1994, at the latest, I noticed that stores on Manhattan’s Ladies’ Shopping Mile (14th Street-34th Street/Sixth Avenue) had stopped hiring whites (Barnes & Noble; Bed, Bath, and Beyond; Toys R’Us, etc.), though the bosses were often white. There was plenty of work for non-white immigrants and American-born blacks and Hispanics, but any working-class, American white would be wasting his time moving here.

    Are you seriously complaining that whites aren’t getting hired for the entry level retail service jobs!?!? That’s the low end of the working class. It’s not very well paid, it’s not prestigious, it’s not desirable, and it’s definitely nothing to be resentful over. My sympathy to the workers who do that work. I would never want my loved ones doing that for more than a teenager job.

  114. @Tim

    Serving shoulder-to-shoulder with black and latinos from the underclass whilst fighting wars at the behest of Israel? C’mon now.

    Please don’t encourage people to join the armed forces.

    If you’re a single white unemployed male looking to escape the poz, I’d recommend going off to East Asia and teaching English for a few years.

  115. @Nigerian Nationalist

    Until 30 or so years ago, most unions were anti-immigration.

    Weird side note: 10-15 years ago, with the advent of real time city council/school board/etc. hearings on TV or online, some newspapers went with Indian reporters, who spoke fluent English and could call council/board members after the meeting for comments, and be paid a fraction of the wage. Back in the day, a couple of the place I interviewed at told me they had to specify in their job ads that reporters had to be physically present at most meetings. But there seems to be no need for that proviso anymore.

    I know this isn’t anywhere near a new observation, but I wonder how many news stories hostile to anti-immigration attitudes would have magically turned around had Indians been magically allowed to come here via HB-1 (or whatever) visas, and take their jobs? I get the feeling the news biz got this aspect of visas clamped down on because (given, it’s anecdotally) I haven’t heard about this for the past 7 or 8 years.

  116. @Tim

    Maybe not fired from the army, but denied reenlistment. I’ve known a lot of Iraq/Afghanistan vets who were pushed out with 10-12 years in. The guaranteed 20-year retirement and pension that goes along with it that existed until the mid-90s is long gone.

  117. @Daniel H

    I think housing costs, that is to say, housing costs where a decent person wants live, hits the nail on the head. I left the Houston area 18 months ago. A decent one-bedroom apartment there costs 150 to 200 percent what a decent mobile home is to rent where I’m at (though fortunately, don’t have to).

    Back…had to be 8 years ago, a girlfriend’s college chumette paid a visit. She talked about turning down an out of college offer of 50k a year to copyedit in NYC, and took something like half that to work in Corpus Christi. I kind of made the same choice.

    Basically, you’re working for more money in a big city, but getting much less.

  118. @International Jew

    Not eastern Canada. Plan a vacation in Quebec province’s “Eastern Counties”, Reg. You won’t regret it. (Mosquito season advisory as per Minnesota of course; don’t go in June).

    We attempted to skirt Montreal towards QC the Friday before Columbus Day one year, not realizing that it was Thanksgiving weekend and all-night rush hour in the exurbs.

    L’Estrie, or the Eastern Townships, comprise just under one percent of Canada’s population, so my original point stands.

  119. @Daniel H

    Looks like a cheap knockoff of the Ilikai:

    Not that the Ilikai itself is all that handsome, but the view from inside would sure beat Astoria’s.


    http://www.ronsaari.com/stockImages/nyc/AstoriaQueensAerialView.jpg

  120. Romanian says: • Website
    @epebble

    Those GDP per capita figures are weird. Too high for the timeframe for nominal GDP, too small for purchasing power parity GDP. The lower end figures are too high, like for Moldova, which is a good 30% lower right now. Also, the order is a bit mixed up. Romania in the post-communist period has always had a higher GDP per capita than Bulgaria and there is no Belarus on the list.

    I get your point, but the Europe list is gratuitous. You have to consider that all of the countries on that list got out from under communism a generation ago, a system which promoted malinvestment in various industries which collapsed and were looted immediately after the fall, which nationalized almost all property, purposefully neglected consumer goods and other forms of welfare, destroyed morals and social hierarchies and promoted fertility destroying gender equality before you guys were watching Bewitched. The hollowing out of local populations was an explosive process, as immigration exploded and birthrates propped up by vanishing state coercion (applied late, after your baby boom) met capitalist style consumer theology.

    Not to mention that four of those countries have had wars in living memory and one does right now. Despite that, think of the fact that almost all of post-communist Europe, minus the basketcases, are either richer than Turkey in per capita terms or very close to it, despite Turkey’s presence in the Western camp since the start of the Cold War, which, presumably, would have made it amenable to saner economic policies and able to access capital, markets, technology etc.

    The region is basically post-apocalyptic of a sort, where a lot of the bad stuff was papered over by access to pressure relieving outmigration, Western-style soma and capital. It’s like being stuck in a crowd so thick that you wanna drop off your feet but the press of the other bodies is keeping you upright until you can stand on your own.

    Meanwhile, Brazil or Mexico have never had Communism or confiscatory regimes and Mexico at least is the Southern border of the richest country in the world. Aside from that, to a large extent, how rich you are in Eastern Europe is also a function of distance from Germany, even if you were to erase the borders on the map (the poor parts of Hungary are like the immediately adjacent rich parts of Romania), mitigated by geography like mountains. This is because of patterns of historic ties and the German diaspora, but also because German capital moved outward in a logical manner after reunification. A non-HBD person would be amazed at how poor Mexico is, given its privileged position. Poland and the Czech Republic managed a lot better, starting from a lot worse, and at the border of Germany, not the US.

  121. Romanian says: • Website
    @epebble

    My personal theory is that, just like some smaller countries can have an excellent standard of living by skimming the cream from the top in a few industries or areas that would not scale to provide the same level of support for much larger countries, some smaller countries attract significant suckiness and do not have the wherewithal to resist it. The impacts of their traits/destiny etc are magnified by their lower size. Moldova had a scandal four years ago, when a couple of banks, including a state savings bank, were looted by a series of companies and well connected individuals to the tune of 1 billion dollars in a country with a GDP of 8 billion. This was just one scandal.

    This is a summary of an official report from a Western auditor on the theft or fraud or however you want to call it.

    https://www.moldova.org/en/kroll-2-report-summary-reactions/

  122. Romanian says: • Website
    @Steve Sailer

    They also had a civil war after independence that turned into a frozen conflict. The separatist region had been built up through Soviet planning so that it had most of the industry and 90% of the electricity generation of the Moldovan SSR. Its immediate separation during independence was a very hard blow to the new state and the government is on the hook for gas delivered by Gazprom to Transnistria, even as Russia helps to maintain the separation. Moldovan debt to Gazprom alone is 6 billion dollars, 89% of which was racked up by the separatist region, while yearly nominal GDP is 8 billion or so. Communist Moldova was comparable to or richer than Romania, while Romania’s GDP/capita is 6-7 times higher today.

    Maybe giving Crimea to the Ukrainians was some sort of honest mistake or arrogance on the part of the Soviet authorities, but a lot of the other ethnic conflicts in the former Soviet Union can be traced to poison pills baked into the territories of the republics so that local separatism would find a countervailing force to muck things up (Armenians and Azeris, Georgians and the Abkhazians, Ossetians and the reconquered Adjaris etc) since the natural borders of new states are the old administrative borders.

  123. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Everybody wants high prices for what they’re selling, and low prices for what they’re buying.

    Farmers wanted high prices for their crops, and low prices for the manufactures which they had to buy.

    Cities like NYC were once major manufacturing centers. So they wanted protection and high prices for their manufactured goods. Now they no longer manufacture anything. They just produce services and media and digital content, and buy manufactured goods.

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