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From the New York Times:

How the Few Black and Hispanic Students at Stuyvesant High School Feel

By Eliza Shapiro
March 22, 2019

I’ve decided upon a new policy, one that the New York Times should consider as well: when reposting excerpts from NYT articles about high school students, I’m only going to use the kids’ initials.

SP had just gotten home from debate practice on Monday evening when she opened her laptop to find her Facebook feed flooded with stories about a staggering statistic: only seven black students had been admitted into Stuyvesant High School, out of 895 spots. The number was causing a wrenching citywide discussion about race and inequality in America’s largest school system.

SP said she felt sickened by the statistic — yet unsurprised. A 16-year-old sophomore, she is one of just 29 black students out of about 3,300 teenagers at Stuyvesant.

“I go to this school every day, I walk through the hallways of this school, and I don’t think I see a black person usually through my day,” said SP, who lives in Park Slope, Brooklyn.

Uh … Park Slope isn’t exactly The Hood. It’s more like the state-of-the-art baby carriage capital of America.

“It’s frustrating to see that nobody wants to do anything, until it’s like, ‘Oh no, nobody got it in,’” said KS, 17, whose parents are from the Dominican Republic. “But it’s like, ‘well you didn’t try to make anyone come in, you didn’t do anything about it.’”

WL, 17, whose father is black and whose mother is Korean-American, said the numbers had made him feel both angry and committed to improving the school culture. …

Still, SP acknowledged that other students’ comments had occasionally made her question her place at the school.

“I’ve been told that the only reason I got into Stuyvesant is because I’m black, even though the test doesn’t even factor that in,” said SP, whose father is black and grew up in New York City and whose mother is from Spain. …

Here’s the 18th paragraph of the article and the first to mention the A word:

Last year, Mayor Bill de Blasio unveiled a controversial proposal to eliminate the admissions exam — the sole means of entry into the city’s eight so-called specialized high schools — and replace it with a system that offers seats to the top performers at every city middle school. The plan has little if any chance of passing in Albany because it has faced opposition from the schools’ alumni and Asian-American groups.

Asians, what do Asians have to do with White Privilege at Stuyvesant? Oh … the 19th paragraph finally explains:

Asians make up roughly 73 percent of Stuyvesant’s 3,300 students, while white students are about 20 percent of the school. Hispanic students make up another 3 percent, with black students just under 1 percent. The city school system is nearly 70 percent black and Hispanic with white and Asian students making up roughly another 15 percent each.

Huh … It’s almost as if Occam’s Razor suggests that, in terms of average smartness, Asians > whites > Hispanics > blacks.

But that couldn’t possibly be true because that’s a trope, a stereotype, cliche, and/or a myth. There are just too much facts and logic in favor of the Occam’s Razor explanation, so the conspiracy theory about White Supremacy has to be true instead. Why? Just because …

Some who defend the entrance exam say Asian-American students at the specialized schools simply worked harder than the black and Hispanic students who did not get in. They say they believed that the numbers, while bleak, reflected a fair system.

But the black and Hispanic teenagers interviewed said they considered themselves proof that there is no disparity of effort or talent — just an imbalance of opportunity.

VN, 18, a Stuyvesant graduate who is a freshman at Harvard, said she remembered when a fifth-grade teacher pulled her aside at her Catholic middle school in Queens Village and encouraged her to consider an elite public school.

Ms. VN, the daughter of Nigerian immigrants, had never heard of Stuyvesant, but she bought a test preparation book and started taking practice exams. She thinks often of her classmates who didn’t have the same guidance.

“I had a lot of friends in my middle school who were just as smart as me, and who I know could be thriving at Stuyvesant if they had known it existed,” said Ms. VN, who was a standout on Stuyvesant’s track team.

She’s shattering stereotypes as a Nigerian distance runner.

Nah, just kidding, she’s triple jumper, pole vaulter, and on the two sprint relay teams. Earlier in her career they tried her at races up to 3000m, but not anymore.

It was much the same for HG, the daughter of Eritrean immigrants, who found out the test existed three months before taking it — by Googling phrases like “best New York City high schools.” …

ET, who is black and Puerto Rican and grew up in a housing project in Chelsea, remembered that his tutor gave him a steep discount, in part because he lived with a single mother who is disabled. …

When Ms. VN found out last April that she had been accepted into all eight of the Ivy League colleges, her first reaction was to keep the news quiet. She said she feared that her peers would make snide comments.

Ms. VN classmates had previously told her that she did not have to worry about her grades because, as a black girl, she was basically guaranteed entry into the college of her choice. …

But what do Asian kids at Stuyvesant know about America’s occluded system of racial preferences?

And from another article by Eliza Shapiro:

For example, there’s a smaller but still important battle brewing in Boston over the way kids get into Boston Latin, which is Boston’s equivalent of Stuyvesant. Currently, admission is largely determined by a student’s score on a test that was designed for private schools. But that system has left Boston Latin overwhelmingly white …

Actually, Boston Latin is less than half white:

White 46.8%
Asian 28.6%
Hispanic 12.5%
Black 7.5%

I guess in 2019 America, however, 46.8% white counts as “overwhelmingly white.”

 
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  1. J.Ross says: • Website

    I have a better journalistic policy: unverifiable claims and emotional nudging about how someone feels do not a legitimate news story make.
    But entirely fake Chinese food should be accorded to the Russian hacker who contacts the latest media Shapiro about not anonymizing minors.

  2. Twinkie says:

    OT: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/all-the-men-are-psyched-about-goldman-sachs-relaxed-dress-code-for-everyone-else-its-complicated/2019/03/15/9d24da8a-41de-11e9-a0d3-1210e58a94cf_story.html

    Suits at work? That’s racist, European patriarchy!

    Casual attire? That’s racist and marginalized women and POC.

    I guess Naked Fridays at work every day from now on.

  3. Twinkie says:

    Huh … It’s almost as if Occam’s Razor suggests that, in terms of average smartness, Asians > whites > Hispanics > blacks.

    But that couldn’t possibly be true because that a trope, a stereotype, cliche, and a myth.

    Of course it is – what about the Hmong!

  4. Typical recess at ‘70s-‘80s Stuyvesant High School before Asians took over:

  5. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:

    As you well know these are on North/South climes largely. The Atlantic islands peoples don’t tend to view Koreans, a still underdeveloped nation, as intellectual equals. ” White” has grown ever more expansive to include Africans, Afghans etc.

    It looks like China may reach Korean levels of GDP per capita, though it is currently less than Mexico.

  6. Dtbb says:

    Do any of the 9 “blacks” who made the cut have two american black parents?

    • Replies: @International Jew
    , @Ragno
  7. Someone should ask Ms. Eliza Shapiro, what percentage of the White kids come from her tribe?

  8. This is getting to be too easy. Add to the list of reparations…blacks get their own Stuyvesant HS. How easy was that. In Buffalo, City Honors is the criteria school that mirrors Stuyvesant. Lawsuits have been filed to change the admissions policy because blacks are regressing as a percentage of admitted students. A proposal to build another City Honors was tabled after research showed that the next group of unadmited applicants were not blacks, but more whites and Asians.

  9. countenance says: • Website

    Notice how atypical the blacks (or “blacks”) at the school are. Either immigrants or racial mixes.

    • Agree: AndrewR
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  10. I think this is meaningless. The few black kids at that school were already outsiders to the black community. They were the children of immigrants and likely contemptuous of American blacks and all their rebellion.

    These kids doubtless feel like they’ve earned their place at the table and are ready to show the rest of the lazy blacks what hard work and success look like. There’s way too much romanticism about human nature here; most of us are proud of looking down on others.

  11. It might well be the case that fewer blacks and hispanics know about Stuyvesant, as the article implies, and if that is so, it should indeed be addressed. Does not sound too hard to do and does not require quotas or otherwise preferential treatment.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Forbes
  12. guest says:

    I want to read an article about what it’s like for Asians in majority-black schools. Actually, no, I can imagine.

    By the way, being overwhelmingly white puts Boston Latin ahead of UVA, which is overwhelmingly blond. And toned. And tan.

  13. Andy says:

    Interesting from the excerpts you include that the few blacks who got in are either half blacks (one case the mother is from Korea, the other from Spain) or are blacks who immigrated from other countries (Nigeria, Dominican Republic).

  14. J.Ross says: • Website

    Yes, we trolled the gun-grabbing website,
    and we smashed its pride on pisstaking and sexual metaphors.
    In our Kiwi land, on our Kiwi rocks, no gun-grabbing website shall live.
    Arise Enn-Zedds arise, and put tyranny down.
    http://www.firearmownersunited.com/2019/03/22/nz-police-shut-down-gun-confiscation-website-in-less-than-24-hours-due-to-trolling/

  15. Cortes says:

    (Earlier attempt to reply was cut adrift, like poor Frank in 2001 – if it shows up, please delete.)

    First, let me congratulate you on the sensible restriction to initials in reporting on young people.

    Second, are said young people being “frank and earnest” in their quoted comments or just playing the game? I’d like to believe the latter is the case.

    • Replies: @Forbes
  16. guest says:
    @Twinkie

    I recently read a fictional story about a bank owner who was so disturbed by a teller wearing loafers (“moccasins”) instead of laces, as well as his five o’clock shadow, that the owner alienated him with the unconscious hope that he’d drive him to quit, I guess. The owner proceeded to lose his manager when the manager brought this ill-treatment to his attention, and he went a bit nuts (in controlled fashion) on the subject of psychiatry and digging into employees minds.

    Which I mention because sartorial decorum in the businessplace is closely tied to mental illness.

  17. guest says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    Easy solution: give blacks their own separate but equal City Honors.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  18. eded says:

    Is it possible that promising black 13-14 year-old students that would have a chance at Stuy or the other exam schools would be honestly turned off by attending a an overwhelming Asian school?

  19. But that couldn’t possibly be true because that a trope, a stereotype, cliche, and a myth

    Here’s a trope for you. I was using public transportation last month, b/c reasons, when a charming vibrancy reached for my custom walking stick (I live near the sticks and make these for funsies) and she said, as she reached to take it out of my hands, “LET ME SEE!” Practising restraint, I did not say “GIBS YOU DAT?”

    There’s just too much facts and logic in favor of the Occam’s Razor explanation, so the conspiracy theory about White Supremacy has to be true instead.

    Methinks the purpose of the white privilege trope is similar to the theory as to why poor whites opposed integration sixty years ago – namely that they were too close to blacks on the SES totem pole – and the reason for the trope is to subjugate whites in order to gain access to Asians, whom they will then subjugate, except I don’t think Asians will excel at buying into the Asian privilege myth. Methinks that Asians will view POC as things to reduce in number in order to make room for, wait for it, more Asians. Stay tuned.

    BTW, I do not want to live in China, but I can tolerate some fraction (call it XX% ) Asians (who are hard working and do things like civilization, albeit different) as long as I get to live in America, culturally speaking.

    Corollary: XX% blacks – NO

  20. AndrewR says:
    @Twinkie

    Won’t someone please think of the investment bankers?

  21. indocon says:

    China reaching Mexico level of per capita GDP is very important, because at that point it overtakes USA in total economic output. Whenever I argue in polite company on this question, I mention this fact and add a little kicker in the end by saying “do you think an average Chinese as as capable as an average Mexican”.

    • Replies: @danand
  22. ET, who is black and Puerto Rican…

    • LOL: fish
    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
  23. jb says:

    Let’s see, of the 7 blacks who were admitted, three are described as mixed (black/Korean, black/Spanish, & black/Puerto Rican), while one is a child of Nigerian immigrants (a group that has a reputation for performing better than other blacks). So out of the already tiny number of black students who were able to make to cut, fewer than half are home-grown garden-variety African-Americans.

    I’m genuinely surprised the Times let this fact slip. It’s really true that if you can’t say it you can’t think it, and if you can’t think it you can’t see it.

    • Replies: @charlie
  24. OTish…how’s this for burying the lede?

    YouTube face-off: Berlin police break up mass brawl

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47669807

    • Replies: @anonymous
  25. Asians make up roughly 73 percent of Stuyvesant’s 3,300 students, while white students are about 20 percent of the school.

    The numbers would be better if they went by gross weight rather than individuals.

    It’s not New York or Boston, but Philadelphia could establish a counterpart to Stuyvesant which could take weight into consideration. Johan Printz High School.

    Printz was to New Sweden what Peter Stuyvesant was to New Amsterdam. He also weighed about 400 lbs and is thought to be the heaviest colonial American ever. One colonist attempted to go over Printz’s head and appeal directly to Sweden. Printz had him executed.

    https://www.britannica.com/biography/Johan-Bjornsson-Printz


    • Replies: @Anonymous
  26. @eded

    Do you think Roger W. Ferguson Jr., getting paid $17 million for heading TIAA CREF, encourages Roger W. Ferguson III to attend Stuy? Or does he say his son’s life will be even more kickass if he goes to a famous prep school with other famous people’s kids?

  27. @Buffalo Joe

    This is getting to be too easy. Add to the list of reparations…blacks get their own Stuyvesant HS.

    I taught for a while at one of those. Lessons learned:
    1) Blacks expect C’s so they can play sports. Sleeping in class is an example of behavior garnering a C.
    2) Blacks do not cheat. They copy other’s test questions, but that is enhanced – test time adaptation indicative of their superer capbility.
    3) Blacks are smarter than the teacher, proven whenever teacher (white like me) says something they do not understand. Only stupid people say things blacks do not understand.

    This last one was a source of humor as I am a comfortable 3 sigma above average putting me 4 sigma above my studnt affletes.

    4) Asian privilege was alive and well [2]

    I used to do cruel and unusual things to them such as having three versions of the same test where only the answers were rearranged. I gave the smart black girl (she was, actually – and hard working too) version one, Jamal, Legendra, Laguerrice and Loquashion another, and Shananakwa, Wandakwa, Jovante[1] and the other Jamal the third. It was interesting to notice that on a multiple choice test, some students would get every question wrong. The blond whore who sat in the back (when she wasn’t doing her stepfather) would Christmas tree and get sometimes get 60% (b/c sometimes I would Christmas tree the correct answers), but my affletes would get zeroes.

    And they called me stupid. Heh heh.

    [1] Jovonte expressed anger at me for pronouncing his name as Jo-von-tee. Everybody knows it is pronounced Jo-von-tay. I expressed my respect for him by saying, “Have a nice day, Jo-von-tay” at the end of every single class. This pleased him, I am sure, for every day he would come back with his cell phone telling me to talk to his mother.

    My one and only Asian student was a champion kick-boxer who knew very little English. I tutored him through Chemistry and Algebra II. He got into a decent technical school, has now graduated and garnered a decent job. Voila, Asian privilege, also known as not being an asshole to the teacher who is trying to help you.

  28. jcd1974 says:

    Of the 29 black students at Stuyvesant do any have two black American parents?

    Sounds like they are all children of immigrants or have at least one non-black parent.

  29. Won’t your new policy on kids names prevent the process of “noticing?”

  30. Anonymous[121] • Disclaimer says:

    Just wanted to thank you for your new policy of using initials when quoting reports on young people. An excellent idea in an era of cyberbullying, doxing and other vileness.

  31. When hard data and facts don’t support their desired points, the NYT runs these pieces that cherry pick “feelings” and “reactions” to make the reporter’s point. This is annoying to begin with. But when the reporter is harvesting quotes from teenagers who are just trying to say the right things, it comes across as especially manipulative. For example:

    Some who defend the entrance exam say Asian-American students at the specialized schools simply worked harder than the black and Hispanic students who did not get in. They say they believed that the numbers, while bleak, reflected a fair system.

    But the black and Hispanic teenagers interviewed said they considered themselves proof that there is no disparity of effort or talent — just an imbalance of opportunity.

    Uh . . . these are the kids who were admitted, so their effort and talent would merely tend to prove the admission system, in fact, fairly rewards effort and talent by black and Hispanic kids.

    I assume it was the reporter who put this lame argument in the kids’ mouths. And I think he owes them an apology for making them look dumb.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  32. “… Ms. VN, the daughter of Nigerian immigrants … “

    I’m guessing Ms. VN is likely of Ibo ancestry. One can often tell from the name or from a picture. As to her comment that she had many Negro friends just as bright as herself, I suspect that this is just evidence that she’s been bright enough to pick up grievance speak as a useful way of deflecting the standard “peer pressure” that bright, young Negroes are subject too if their superiority becomes too evident.

    • Replies: @Foreign Expert
  33. @Twinkie

    I guess Naked Fridays at work every day from now on.

    You’d get complaints about how this enables fat-shaming.

  34. Lowell High School in SF used to be called “The Chinese Girls’ School” way back in the 1970s.

    • Replies: @Hidden Cat
  35. How do they feel? Probably like they’re in Beijing.

  36. anon[268] • Disclaimer says:

    Cranky as ever, Steve. Don’t forget: you praised a mass shooter for his competency. You’re a garbage human being.

  37. J.Ross says: • Website
    @eded

    Blacks I have met in meatspace love East Asian culture in proportion to their intelligence (the smart ones love it in an informed and non-creepy way and the idiots love kung fu and General Tso). Black hostility to other nonwhite groups is usually a function of whether they could take them in a fight. This is simply not an issue but since you bring it up let’s remember to thank leftist anti-racist witchfinders for having contrived it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  38. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @eded

    I think they tend to get steered towards elite private high schools.

  39. danand says:
    @indocon

    Indocon,

    Come on dude, it’s 2019 already, LOL

    “China reaching Mexico level of per capita GDP is very important, because at that point it overtakes USA in total economic output.”

    Name 2019 Population GDP (IMF) GDP (UN ’16) GDP Per Capita

    United States 329,093,110 21,410,230 18,624,475 $65,058
    China 1,420,062,022 15,543,710 11,218,281 $10,946
    Mexico 132,328,035 1,285,080 1,076,914 $9,711

  40. @guest

    guest, to you and me, yes an easy solution. But they want what they can’t get. it is that simple.

  41. @Dtbb

    Doesn’t look like it…

    Steve’s policy on using initials is going to keep him out of trouble (and slightly put off the day he’s banned from the Internet). But it’s helpful that the NY Times gives full names because those are hints about ethnic origin.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  42. @stillCARealist

    They were the children of immigrants and likely contemptuous of American blacks and all their rebellion.

    Their parents might be contemptuous, but the kids are woke.

    • Agree: DCThrowback
  43. @countenance

    count, Please note that our first black president, Barack, not Bill, was of mixed parentage.

  44. I wonder what the reaction would be in the black community if you offered a set number of places for black students at Stuyvesant, and then let the black community leaders and activists pick the students. Blacks have a term for blacks pulling other blacks down, “Crabs in a bucket.”

  45. J.Ross says: • Website
    @International Jew

    But surely in a story about ethnic origin you could just spell that out; also, these are minors.

  46. @James Speaks

    James, I think most teachers at inner city schools teach for the money and go home and cross off another day to retirement on their desk calendar.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  47. J.Ross says: • Website
    @anon

    Steve never praised the shooter for his competency; this is tortured out of Steve pointing out the inability of the Senegalese bus burner. It derives an opposite from one statement to arrive at something that was never even implied and certainly not meant. By this reasoning Obama’s bitter clingers quip was actually an indictment of leftist nihilism.

  48. @James Speaks

    Only stupid people say things blacks do not understand.

    I took Intro to Poetry ten years ago. There was a large, black, female “nontraditional student” in the class.

    On the first day we had a class discussion about two poems written about a newborn baby: one that was clearly garbage (something like “Cute little baby, tiny button nose! / Ten little fingers, ten little toes!”, etc.) and another that was… found it, it was “Morning Song” by Sylvia Plath:

    Love set you going like a fat gold watch.
    The midwife slapped your footsoles, and your bald cry
    Took its place among the elements.

    Our voices echo, magnifying your arrival. New statue.
    In a drafty museum, your nakedness
    Shadows our safety. We stand round blankly as walls. …

    The professor started out by polling the class as to which poem they preferred. Everyone picked “Morning Song” except the woman. She felt that poets should “say what [they] mean and mean what [they] say.”

  49. @Skyler_the_Weird

    Aw, it’s just a rhetorical question, right? Of course they must feel gratitude! And pride. And a sense of responsibility to their parents and to previous teachers who helped them on their way in life. And to society, such a rich and free society, so full of opportunity for human achievement and dignity! A society so unlike the ones their forefathers left behind, that their descendants might partake of such blessings. They probably yelp with glee and occasionally even weep a bit, alone in their bedrooms at night, studying for their rosy futures as contributors to humanity’s ascent. Amirite?

    • Replies: @Lockean Proviso
  50. @anon

    waaaaaaah waaaaaah waaaaaah

    tell us how you really feel

  51. @stillCARealist

    I was in a coffee shop at Yale last month and many of the black students were African immigrants or the children of African immigrants. Not to get all Tariq Nasheed, but why do our elite institutions provide preferential treatment to Africans over African Americans?

    I realize that it is not about “justice”, but actually about “appearances,” but preferences for the elite of Africa over the American disadvantaged strikes me as indefensible.

    If you have to have affirmative action, it should go to the descendants of black slaves not people like Barack Obama.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  52. JimB says:

    Huh … It’s almost as if Occam’s Razor suggests that, in terms of average smartness, Asians > whites > Hispanics > blacks.

    I don’t think the intrinsic difference between white and Asian intelligence is as large as admissions to Stuyvesant suggests. Poor and middle class whites have mostly fled NYC, and rich whites with smart kids favor prestigious private schools where Asians are still a minority. If the socioeconomic distribution of Asians and whites were similar in the Big Apple, the enrollment ratio at Stuy. would be closer to one. Part of Harvard’s admissions strategy is to avoid becoming Stuyvesant.

  53. El Dato says:

    SP said she felt sickened by the statistic — yet unsurprised.

    There is something unettling about the barf-readiness of people today. Must be the junk food. Or the water quality is just too low now, even for the US.

  54. istevefan says:

    I guess in 2019 America, however, 46.8% white counts as “overwhelmingly white.”

    Get used to that logic because in the recent discussions I’ve seen about the MSM wanting to stop racists from using demographic stats as a political tool, some have suggested that instead of telling Whites they are going to be a minority, they should be told that they will still be the largest individual group.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  55. @Clifford Brown

    preferences for the elite of Africa over the American disadvantaged strikes me as indefensible

    What need have they of defense?

    Is anyone remotely threatening attacking them?

    • Replies: @Clifford Brown
  56. anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Henry's Cat

    They are ‘social media influencers’ through the whole story. And those two ‘related’ story links in the middle – something about a Neo nazi, and the other a ‘Women’s Day’ article…LOL

    It’s getting almost creepy at the BBC.

  57. J.Ross says: • Website
    @istevefan

    So just flat out lying, which has the result of recruiting for us, as individuals realize they’re being lied to. I saw a thread in an entertainment discussion board earlier tonight talking about A24’s Midsomar. An early reply comment pointed out that the premise of the film would never be accepted if it was making horror objects of non-whites. This person was called a virgin who will never get laid. However, numerous unrelated people came to his defense on the grounds that what he was saying was objectively true, so that early offending post was censored, then the whole thread was taken down.

    • Replies: @istevefan
  58. @larry lurker

    Enjoyed your anecdote. Enjoyed the poem even more.

    You highlight the essence of white privilege, namely that they who demand reparations are unable to see or perceive subtlety and, concluding it does not exist, lay all the blame for their own dullness upon those of us who perceive as being in some sort of conspiracy to deny them the fruits of our labors.

    • Agree: Lockean Proviso
  59. Anonymous[315] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    They used to call those sort of stories gauging public reaction to yesterday’s story “white page” stories. Often followed up by a “yellow page” story with comment by local academics and the like. A tribute to the old phone directories.

  60. @Desiderius

    Indefensible as in a policy that is not justified or possible to defend.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  61. Lloyd1927 says:

    How many of those “black” students are mixed-race and not truly black? The only message you’re sending by labeling them “black” is that the white or Asian genes will do the work and black genes will get the credit.

    Most of the Hispanics are mixed-race and all of them were classified as “white” before the affirmative action era. The whiter Hispanics tend to achieve more.

    The children of African immigrants, despite their usually pure black ancestry, don’t share the anti-social, self-defeating subculture of the black American majority.

  62. Ragno says:
    @Dtbb

    Possibly if you combine all 9.

  63. Anon[190] • Disclaimer says:

    An initials policy would make it even easier for the Times to just make shit up. Names give an audit trail. Names allow kids to recognize themselves and tweet that their quotes were unfairly edited. Names let citizen detectives ferret out things like the Chipotle dine and dash kid.

    Perhaps the Times should give the kids a Miranda warning, “Your life may be destroyed on social media,” or maybe parental consent should be required.

    Also, keep in mind that some lives, even young lives, deserve to be destroyed. I’d include fake hate crime reporters and rape hoaxes in that category. No job, no education for you, ever.

  64. My kids’ (non-magnet, non-elite) HS has, with the Asian and Hispanic percentages reversed, roughly the same demographics as Boston Latin. On a school rating website (niche.com) the first reader comment is: “Wonderful school, needs more diversity though.” It is ~42% white. So yes, these days anything over 40% is non-vibrant.

  65. The modern day Sophists have truly taken over in Media. I’m not buying the claim that all across the city, mini pigment enhanced Einstein’s are sitting in schools slowly wilting away from lack of opportunity. This is another sign of civilization collapse. Also, this is nothing new. An article in city journal from 20 years ago shows us that attempts to water down these schools has been a multi -generational effort.

    https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-gotham’s-elite-high-schools-escaped-leveller’s-ax-12276.html

  66. @Buffalo Joe

    Blacks already have their own elite selective high school in NYC. It is called Medgar Evers College Preparatory School. The valedictorian and salutatorian usually wind up in the Ivy League with other top graduates going to schools like Vanderbilt. Obviously any race can attend, but the school is 88 percent black and low-income.

    Medgar Evers Prep is also being forced to “diversify”. The school must now admit more students with disabilites, which would include special instruction needs (like ADHD), the homeless, and English-language learners.

    https://www.chalkbeat.org/posts/ny/2017/10/25/new-york-city-tweaks-admissions-at-an-elite-middle-school-sparking-an-uproar/

    • Replies: @res
    , @Ed
    , @Buffalo Joe
  67. @James Speaks

    I taught for a while at one of those.

    It doesn’t sound as if you were at a selective school like Stuyvesant. It sounds as if your school had a magnet program that admitted kids by lottery or some other criteria with no regards to test scores or grades which would explain the high number of cheaters and “affletes”. There are few good black athletes in selective public schools, although Chicago’s Whitney Young is an exception because the principal has the right to select 5 percent of an incoming class. Stuyvesant has had its own cheating scandal with Asians.

  68. res says:
    @Triumph104

    One thing odd about Medgar Evers is that only 15 students took the SHSAT and none received offers according to this page: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/06/29/nyregion/nyc-high-schools-middle-schools-shsat-students.html

    Do the students there just prefer to stay where they are? Would removing this group of high performing blacks from the specialized high school pool help explain some of the under-representation there?

    More about the school: https://www.niche.com/k12/medgar-evers-college-preparatory-school-brooklyn-ny/academics/
    https://www.greatschools.org/new-york/brooklyn/1865-Medgar-Evers-College-Preparatory-School/

  69. VN is oddly selfish. She refused to tell her friendsf about Stuyvesant and the SHSAT. She refused to publicize getting into all eight Ivies, thereby refusing to advise others how they too could gain admission to an elite college.

    In 2018, the media only mentioned three people getting into all eight Ivies: the daughter of Egyptian immigrants, the effeminate black son of a single mother in Maryland who had attended an elite private school since first grade, and the biracial daughter of a white British father and black mother, a graduate of Harvard and Harvard Law School, who attended DCs School Without Walls.

    VN, 18, a Stuyvesant graduate who is a freshman at Harvard, said she remembered when a fifth-grade teacher pulled her aside at her Catholic middle school in Queens Village and encouraged her to consider an elite public school.

    Ms. VN, the daughter of Nigerian immigrants, had never heard of Stuyvesant, but she bought a test preparation book and started taking practice exams. She thinks often of her classmates who didn’t have the same guidance.

    “I had a lot of friends in my middle school who were just as smart as me, and who I know could be thriving at Stuyvesant if they had known it existed,” said Ms. VN, who was a standout on Stuyvesant’s track team.

  70. dux.ie says:

    I was trying to determine the impact of Mayor De Blasio’s policy on the elite high school admission. I do not have the SHSAT scores but the NY SAT scores for the Asian is on a rather steep upward trends. Thus the reduction in the Asian number of testers and the Elite8 admission are most probably due to the De Blasio effects, the better quality Asians either fled inter-state or to the private senior hight schools.

    The SAT scale was re-calibrated in 2017 and the reason might be that the national average score had significantly dropped below the nominal average 1000. That resulted in all scores being up-lifted and that might give some the false sense of achievement. For example the NY average new SAT was 1068 which is approximately 980 in the old scale and for 2016 it was 990. For comparison the new SAT scores for the last 2 years were converted to the old SAT scale using the official concordance chart. Yet the NY SAT trend for White is slightly downward and that might be a sign that the elite White had fled NY for interstate. The interesting thing is that the percentage of White for the Elite8 had gone up and that could be the weaker White had gone to the private senior school or De Blasio was placating the White. The drop in the Black number is harder to explain.

    What will the performance of NYC public schools be if De Blasio succeded in destroying the Elite8? The performance of the NYC public schools 2012 with data from the NYC open data portal,

    The US modal IQ is about 98, for NYC public schools it is about 82.5. It will not that different from that for Puerto Rico.

    • Replies: @res
  71. Immigrants are a selective group. From what I can tell, the black children of immigrants have always been overrepresented in NYC’s specialized high schools. In recent years, the black population of NYC has decreased, mostly native blacks leaving. With the exception of Brooklyn Tech and Brooklyn Latin, shs with the highest number of blacks, I wouldn’t be surprised if there were no black students with two native black parents at a given shs.

    Thomas Sowell is native black and attend Stuyvesant, but his black best friend that introduced him to the school was from the Caribbean. Eric Holder’s, Stuyvesant, family is from Barbados on both sides. Neil deGrasse Tyson, Bronx Science, has a Puerto Rican mother. Tyson’s daughter, Bronx Science, has a white mother. Unz commenter Truth, Brooklyn Tech, has an immigrant parent.

    Black immigrants score higher than native blacks on standardized tests and are more apt to learn how to navigate the education system rather than just throw their hands up and scream white supremacy.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  72. @anon

    It’s not white people’s fault that they’re better at most things.

  73. @Jus' Sayin'...

    Is there any data on Igbo IQ?

    • Replies: @res
  74. @Bard of Bumperstickers

    Maybe you’re being sarcastic, but I hope that it’s at least somewhat true.

    The temptations and potential sanctions that our culture has for the young twist and invert most vestiges of potential nobility.

  75. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    The UK abolished ‘academic selection’ in High School entrance decades ago. This was a keynote Labour Party policy.
    Perhaps the Democrat Party will advocate the same policy.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  76. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Or even ‘Freddie Prinz High School’ after the late star of 1970s hit comedy ‘Chico and the Man’.

  77. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross

    ‘Black hostility to other ethnic groups’ is purely and simply a direct correlation of black proximity to the said ‘other ethnic groups’.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  78. @Twinkie

    Bank adopts business-casual dress code; women and minorites hardest hit.

    Dress codes are a bit of an obsession at WaPo, as a search will show.

  79. Who gives a s**t How the Few Black and Hispanic Students at Stuyvesant High School Feel? They should be grateful to be there.

    There is far too much complaining in this world, and far too much of it is taken seriously. People were told to Grin and Bear It, (a nice way of saying STFU), when I was a tadpole.

  80. @larry lurker

    In my opinion, the “Cute little baby” poem is superior because it rhymes (which takes at least a minimum of skill) and because it conveys a meaning, appropriate for a greeting card. The “Morning Song” poem, on the other hand, does not communicate. How can a newborn baby’s cry be “bald”? How can a cry take its place in Mendeleev’s chart? What does it mean to “shadow” someone’s safety?

    • LOL: James Speaks
  81. Sensible policy about the initials. But you better check the beginning (first 2 words) of the excerpt as it appears on vdare.com.

  82. @obwandiyag

    Before that, the Jewish Boys School.

    Lowell High School in SF used to be called “The Chinese Girls’ School” way back in the 1970s.

  83. Ed says:
    @Triumph104

    Why don’t the busy bodies just leave well alone? Admitting kids with behavioral issues is just going to cause the climate of the school to deteriorate. Schools are not miracle centers they can’t fix the broken.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @Triumph104
  84. @Clifford Brown

    Indeed.

    Of course it is not in fact undefended. They have a full Maginot Line of moribund social justice tropes at the ready.

    As you note, any meaningful attack would roll right through it. Luckily for them we’re content to bitch about it on the internet.

  85. @Ed

    Because churches are icky.

  86. @Triumph104

    The ones throwing their hands up and the ones screaming white supremacy aren’t necessarily the same group. The high yellas like to scream it to shore up their street cred with their “felllow blacks.”

    Works better on progtard whites than regular blacks.

  87. charlie says:
    @jb

    Noticed that as well.

    Granted there were interviewing the 9 “minority” club members rather than all 29 “visible minorities” but I’d suspect the ratios scale up.

    Which is worse — feeling like a stranger, having few people who look like you around in high school — or people looking at you as if you a fraud using your skin color as a preference for admissions?

  88. Blacks are under-represented in academia for the exact same reason Whites are under-represented in the NBA.

  89. @Triumph104

    Never mind. You don’t even know what Common Core is.

    Common Core is a set of very basic standards. Nice idea it is, to have the assumption that students would have certain basic skills at each level.

    In practice, from complaints I heard and drama I experienced, Common Core is an unbelievably difficult set of tests that are designed to ruin the school system, impose federal bureaucracy on local school systems, create a generation of losers, etc etc.

    So, after trying to wrap my head around the idea that this set of standards was so dastardly chosen as to wreak havoc, I decided I did not understand. Hence the question, “What the fuck is Common Core?”

    In a way, your comment explained why CC is needed and heated.
    If you assume the other party is incapable, you will overlook evidence to the contrary.
    If you assume the other party is capable and they are not, then you create conflict.

    Except I do understand. CC is a set of standards that exposes cargo cult education. Did you know that?

  90. res says:
    @dux.ie

    Did you see this study I linked in another Stuy thread? https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57b20ecbe6f2e157a74c4a3a/t/5abe48cc758d46a7b6292304/1522419916388/Corcoran+%26+Baker-Smith.pdf

    It goes into detail describing how different admissions changes (simulated) would change the demographics of those admitted.

  91. istevefan says:
    @J.Ross

    However, numerous unrelated people came to his defense on the grounds that what he was saying was objectively true, so that early offending post was censored, then the whole thread was taken down.

    I’m surprised comment sections haven’t all been taken down by now. They really are of no use to those who control the narrative. They either have to take them down, or spend serious time and effort monitoring them.

  92. @Triumph104

    Tri, Adding Special Needs Students and English Learner Students to the general school population slows everyone down.

  93. Uncle says:

    Last year, Mayor Bill de Blasio unveiled a controversial proposal to eliminate the admissions exam — the sole means of entry into the city’s eight so-called specialized high schools — and replace it with a system that offers seats to the top performers at every city middle school.

    I taught at a prominent private middle school with a diverse student body. We admitted a very nice black 8th grader with excellent teacher recommendations and high grades. At his previous , mostly black, suburban school, he was so far ahead of his classmates in math that he became the teacher’s assistant, walking around the room helping the others with their work. Since he had completed Algebra, we placed him in the an Advanced Algebra class for gifted 8th graders. He couldn’t do any of it. We tried having him retake Algebra I. He didn’t have a clue. We put him in Pre-Algebra, a class for average 7th graders. Despite all his effort and support from home, he barely made it through that; he had no understanding of basics on which to build. We concluded that he’d been a “Top performer” at his school because he was gentlemanly and cooperative, and because he shined compared to his classmates.
    Being a school’s “Top Performer” is not necessarily an indicator of one’s academic ability.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Triumph104
  94. res says:
    @Foreign Expert

    Is there any data on Igbo IQ?

    I haven’t been able to find any. I would appreciate a source if anyone has one.

    This is one of the better things I have seen on the topic: https://www.africanevents.com/the-most-brilliant-black-african-race-facts-and-figures-from-the-us-academic-report/

    A not very informative discussion: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-IQ-of-the-Igbo-people

    Even more interesting would be a look at Igbo IQ by age. Most success stories I hear are children so I am guessing they have a greater advantage then (e.g. earlier maturation?).

    Also see Chanda Chisala’s posts on unz.com

    P.S. I just ran across this paper about Nigerian IQs: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/286562564_Indispensability_of_intelligence_testing_in_the_repositioning_and_revitalization_of_Nigerian_education
    Not directly applicable to the Igbo question, and I think it has been normed for Nigerians (so mean IQ for Nigerians is 100 thus not comparable to Western results). But one interesting aspect of the paper is it contains yearly data by age from 9-17 so might be useful for comparing maturation rates with other populations.

  95. Jack D says:
    @narrenspeise

    Don’t be ridiculous. In 1849 Chinese villagers knew about the gold strike in California but in 2019 blacks in NYC don’t know about magnet schools?

    • Replies: @anonymous
  96. anonymous[308] • Disclaimer says:
    @Uncle

    De Blasio policy of admitting the top 7% means that students at the top school with IQ 147- with SHSAT slightly below the cutoff will miss out from the elite high school. The IQ diff in the elite schools might be 6SD, i.e 90 IQ points which might be ranging from IQ 70 to IQ 160. How will the teachers handle such a class?

  97. anonymous[308] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    I will speculate that the drastic drop in the number of Blacks in the elite high schools is that they are already having special treatment and now De Blasio wants them to compete hard in the elite high school? No way they want to do that. The backlash or maybe it should be spelled differently.

  98. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    What I meant was if you force them together with mestizos there will be guaranteed fighting and outside attention (whereas with Asians there will be bullying and suffering in silence).

  99. Forbes says:
    @narrenspeise

    It might be impossible to NOT know about Stuyvesant and the test-admission high schools. I grew up 265 miles from NYC and knew of Stuyvesant 50 years ago.

    A non-English speaking illegal immigrant with school-age children might not know of Stuyvesant, et al., but then we’re talking about people living on the margins of society who really shouldn’t be in the country. Only the NYT could turn those details into a major league crisis of invidious discrimination and unfairness. As it is, there probably are test-admission high school students whose parents are in the country illegally.

  100. Forbes says:
    @Cortes

    Having brief experience with “reporters” getting quotes to fill out their story copy, you can be assured that the direct phrases–and only those direct phrases–that supported the tone and agenda intended by the reporter (and editor) are all that were used.

    Anything said by the students that balanced their remarks, or contradicted the story, were left off. So-called reporters aren’t writing your story, they’re writing their story.

    • Agree: Triumph104
  101. Forbes says:
    @Twinkie

    This is actually pretty funny–funny-haha, not funny-strange. In the late ’90s when the tech boom was underway, the Silicon Valley dress casual style invaded Wall St. Many second and third tier firms basically said, “We’re not Goldman or Morgan Stanley–we still wear suits to the office.” I.e., Big Swinging D!cks do what big swinging d!cks do, act like whales. Minnows don’t pretend they are whales.

    But sometime after the tech boom went bust, suit-wearing was back in style. The bosses discovered that relaxed workplace standards led to relaxation of other conduct, and not conducive to top performance and effectiveness (or professionalism).

    And, of course, the casual dress joke was that men just switched one uniform (a suit) for another–khaki slacks and blue shirts worn with a blazer or sport coat. All they really did was ditch the necktie, which is the one piece of attire that actually has an effect when worn. If you’re intent on a professional workplace, it helps to insist on professional standards and expectations. Neckties do the trick.

  102. Semi OT but related :

    https://www.latimes.com/local/education/la-me-edu-college-cheating-scandal-damion-20190322-story.html

    Buried in the article is the fact that the 4.1 gpa star student has an SAT score in less than the tenth percentile. Nevertheless he’s been accepted to UC Davis.

    • Replies: @Anon
  103. Leo says:

    I practiced away to get into Stuyvesant and hovered just under (usually) or just over the cutoff. In the end, I got into Bronx Science but missed Stuy by one test question. It’s harder than people imagine for a 13-year-old to “game” a test like that.

  104. EKP says:

    And you’ll note that the “black” students are generally half-black.

    William Lohier, for example—the NYC Schools Poet Laureate and head of the Black Students Association—is the son of…

    A Korean woman and a Haitian 2nd-Circuit Federal Judge.

  105. @Uncle

    The Boston Globe did a series of articles earlier this year that looked back at most of the publicly educated Boston valedictorians from 2005 to 2007. One in four failed to get a bachelor’s degree in six years. Nearly a fourth of the valedictorians wanted to become a doctor, but none did. Four became homeless after high school. One of the homeless was a Dartmouth grad with a baby.

    Boston has three exam schools. Five of the nine exam school valedictorians between 2005 to 2007 went to Harvard. Only three of the more than 80 valedictorians from the non-exam schools went to an Ivy League college, and none of them went to Harvard.

    • Replies: @keuril
  106. @Ed

    I can’t prove it, but I believe this “manufactured chaos” is being pushed by for-profit companies. Some schools are even saving places for kids who have a parent in prison. When Michael Bloomberg was mayor, he closed down several of the big underperforming and dangerous public schools replacing them with small themed schools and five more specialized exam schools were added to the big three (Stuyvesant, Bronx Science, and Brooklyn Tech).

    Since nearly everyone can now attend a school that meets their ability and interests, it has been nearly impossible for for-profit companies to make money off of the NYC’s public schools, since there has been no problem to fix.

  107. How do the few white gentiles feel at Stuyvesant ? Just 4% of the students are white Christians ….

  108. dr kill says:

    Just use AA for all the students’ initials. We understand.

  109. keuril says:
    @Triumph104

    Boston has three exam schools. Five of the nine exam school valedictorians between 2005 to 2007 went to Harvard. Only three of the more than 80 valedictorians from the non-exam schools went to an Ivy League college, and none of them went to Harvard.

    There is probably one or a few high schools in the Boston area that send a large number of students (10+) every year to Harvard, because that’s where the faculty send their kids for high school. Children of faculty of course have the easiest time getting in.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
  110. Art Deco says:
    @Anonymous

    The Conservative Party has held the government for 28 of the last 43 years. Ample time to re-introduce sorting examinations.

    #fredocons

  111. Anon[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @MichiganMom

    > despite his dismal SAT test results, which ranked below the 10th percentile.

    10th percentile is about SAT 800 and IQ 80. UCDavis 25th percentile admission is SAT 1080. The HBCU Howard University 25th percentile admission is SAT 980. Will he be able to handle his course load?

  112. dux.ie says:

    Current Estimate Elite8 Admission Scores

    Min|Avg|Max|IQlike|N|School
    557|597.7|665|132.6|18|Stuyvesant
    527|592.2|688|131.7|4|Staten Island Tech
    525|573.8|696|128.7|19|Bronx Science
    519|568.0|620|127.7|5|HSMSE
    524|564.8|617|127.2|5|HSAS Lehman
    498|529.1|631|121.3|25|Brooklyn Tech
    514|518.0|524|119.5|3|Queens Science
    488|500.0|551|116.5|10|Brooklyn Latin

    2018
    Stuyvesant 559 / 698
    Bronx Science 518 / 637
    Brooklyn Latin 482 / 555
    Brooklyn Technical 493 / 668
    HSMSE @ CCNY 516 / 616
    HSAS @ Lehman 516 / 633
    Queens Science @ York College 538 / 542
    Staten Island Tech 519 / 660

    2017
    Stuyvesant 555 / 704
    Bronx Science 512 / 664
    Brooklyn Latin 479 / 600
    Brooklyn Technical 486 / 588
    HSMSE @ CCNY 504 / 621
    HSAS @ Lehman 516/ 545
    Queens Science @ York College 507/ 607
    Staten Island Tech 515 / 704

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  113. @dux.ie

    How does the Hunter College public high school compare?

    • Replies: @res
    , @dux.ie
  114. @keuril

    The point of my post had nothing to do with which school sends the most students to Harvard. But since that seems of interest to you. In 2013, Boston Latin was one of the top seven feeder schools to Harvard University. The only other Massachusetts public high school in the group of seven was Lexington High School. So either one or no public high school in the state, not just the Boston area, sent as many graduates to Harvard as Boston Latin.

    In 2017, Boston Latin was one of four feeder schools subpoenaed in the admissions lawsuit Asian-Americans filed against Harvard. The Harvard Crimson reported that “Twenty-six members of Harvard’s Class of 2020 went to Boston Latin”.

    https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2017/4/25/high-schools-subpoena-admissions/

    • Replies: @keuril
  115. res says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Are SHSAT stats available for Hunter College?

    FWIW, here is an SHSAT take from a research analyst at Hunter College: https://www.chalkbeat.org/posts/ny/2018/06/22/ive-spent-years-studying-the-link-between-shsat-scores-and-student-success-the-test-doesnt-tell-you-as-much-as-you-might-think/

    It would be interesting to know how much their admissions policies “walk the walk.”

  116. keuril says:
    @Triumph104

    The point of my post had nothing to do with which school sends the most students to Harvard.

    I didn’t say that was the point of your post. I was making a tangential remark. Boston Latin is a very elite school (iirc they have had the highest average SAT score of any HS in the country some years), plus they have a *long* history with Harvard (they like to brag that they are older than Harvard), so it’s not surprising that they send a lot of graduates to Harvard. I would wager that Lexington sends a lot of graduates to Harvard because a lot of Harvard faculty members send their kids to Lexington.

  117. dux.ie says:
    @Steve Sailer

    The stats are aggregated from two internet self reported sources and they tended to be reporting the scores for the elite8. Anyway from the NYC open data portal, the 2012 SAT scores for Huner and Stuyvesant,

    DBN|SCHOOL|NTested|SATRead|SATMath|SATWrite
    03M541|MANHATTAN / HUNTER SCIENCE HIGH SCHOOL|111|473|506|467
    02M475|STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL|832|679|735|682

    • Replies: @res
  118. res says:
    @dux.ie

    That’s not the same Hunter. Here is the data source:
    https://data.cityofnewyork.us/Education/2012-SAT-Results/f9bf-2cp4

    The Wikipedia page for Hunter College HS makes the following claim:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_College_High_School

    Publicly available data indicate that Hunter has the highest average SAT score, the highest average ACT score and the highest percentage of National Merit Finalists of any high school in the United States, public or private.[6][7]

    For the graduating class of 2012, the average SAT score was a 2207.[20] The class of 2013 averaged 2200[1] on the test and the class of 2016 averaged 2208. The class of 2013 scored an average of 32.6 on the ACT.[1]

    So about 100 points more on the SAT than Stuy.

    This is a useful summary of the NYC Elite 8 high schools + Hunter College:
    https://nypost.com/2015/09/27/the-elite-eight-here-are-the-top-schools-in-nyc/
    That link shows Hunter College ~50 points higher than Stuy: 2185 vs. 2133.

    P.S. Would it kill you to include a link to your data source in your comments?

    • Replies: @dux.ie
    , @dux.ie
  119. dux.ie says:
    @res

    > the school is run by Hunter College rather than by the city’s education department

    So it is not in the NYC DOE list.

    > “students accepted to Hunter represent the top one-quarter of 1% of students in New York City, based on test scores.

    So by definition the students are from the top 99.75 percentile. For Stuyvesant the best case estimate if none of the top students are attracted to other elite schools Nstuy/Ntester=895/27521=3.25%, i.e. 96.75 percentile for bigger class. Thus it is not fair to directly compare Hunter with Stuyvesant. Hunter expels the non-performers and the graduating class is only 200. A fair comparison will be to the average SAT score of the top 200 Stuyvesant students. What do The Wall Street Journal and the New York Times know about statistics except bias spin against Stuyvesant.

    Either way the min SHSAT for the 99.75 percentile is expected to be 655.4. Current Stuyvesant estimate

    Min|Avg|Max|N|School
    557|602.8|665|18|Stuyvesant

    only 1 out of 18 has score greater than 655.4. Extrapolating from that extremely small sample Stuyvesant might only have 50 students above that cutoff.

    • Replies: @dux.ie
  120. dux.ie says:
    @res

    At 99.75 percentile with only 27521 testers there are theoretically only 69 students above that. Thus the Hunter College claimed of 225 might not be telling the truth. The best case estimate of 50 I did for Stuyvesant might be more credible. NYTimes did not seem to have fact check the claim.

  121. dux.ie says:
    @dux.ie

    With Hunter’s 200 students the percentile is more like 99.18% with estimated min SHSAT 618.4. Accordingly the estimated number of Stuyvesant students above that score is 8/18 and that extrapolated to 398 out of the 895 students. Since at the very top end it is a zero sum game and so it will depend on the pulling power of both school. Stuyvesant might give Hunter a good challenge with the top 200 students.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  122. @dux.ie

    So Hunter is where the next Elena Kagan goes, while Stuyvesant is more for grinds?

  123. Hunter lets in a couple dozen kindergarten kids, and then lets in most of its kids in the 7th grade. It sounds like it uses a homemade test whipped up by the faculty.

    Asians have a plurality at Hunter, but not a big majority like at Stuyvesant. There are about twice as many whites as at Stuyvesant. It’s on the Upper East Side. In general it sounds like Hunter is more appealing for wealthy white parents than is Stuyvesant.

    Hunter’s alumni list on Wikipedia isn’t as impressive as I guessed it would be, but that might be due to it being a girls only school until 1974. A couple of Broadway songwriters — Miranda and Lopez.

    I suspect it’s more low profile than Stuyvesant because it was a girls school.

    • Replies: @dux.ie
  124. dux.ie says:
    @Steve Sailer

    It was reported that round1 of Hunter selection process involves a $350 IQ test. For students qualified for free lunch that could be a bit much and their parents might consider Stuyvesant is good enough. Don’t know what else is in round2. Also weakness in English cannot be compensated with strength in Maths.

    The tiger children might not have problem with the required course in music but the instrument cost could be a problem. For the introvert and those with English as a second language the required course in theatre might be a challenge. They are better suited for middle class students.

    The main entry to Hunter is through grade 7. So those taking SHSAT from there might be planning to drop out before they are pushed. Not sure if they have major intake to grade9.

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PastClassics
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?