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NYT: Google Is Evil ... Because Peter Thiel
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From the New York Times:

Google Doesn’t Want What’s Best for Us
By JONATHAN TAPLIN AUG. 12, 2017

Sounds plausible, but it turns out that the proof of this is purported to be the existence of Trump supporter Peter Thiel.

After all, Thiel and Google are both associated with Silicon Valley:

… The rise of Google and the other giant businesses of Silicon Valley have been driven by a libertarian culture that paid only lip service to notions of diversity. Peter Thiel, one of the ideological leaders in the Valley, wrote in 2009 on a blog affiliated with the Cato Institute that “since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of ‘capitalist democracy’ into an oxymoron.”

If women should not even have the vote, why should we worry about gender diversity in the engineering ranks?

I recently told a friend I couldn’t remember if Thiel had invested in Google as well as Facebook. He replied: “Thiel would a lot richer if he’d also invested in Google.”

But who can be bothered to Google that before writing an NYT oped?

Today Google is under growing scrutiny, and the cognitive dissonance between the outward-facing “Don’t be evil” stance and the internal misogynistic “brogrammer” rhetoric was too extreme.

As a general rule, you can be sure that anybody who uses the word “brogrammer” non-ironically is yanking your chain.

Google had to fire the offending engineer, James Damore, but anyone who spends time on the message boards frequented by Valley engineers will know that the “bro” culture that gave us Gamergate — an online movement that targeted women in the video game industry — is much more prevalent than Mr. Pichai wants to acknowledge.

On August 31, 2016 Wired reported that more money was donated to Hillary Clinton by Google employees than by any other company in the country during the previous month. The ratio of Clinton to Trump donations from Google employees that month was $174,000 to $250.

The Google Transparency Project found:

Google’s Support for Hillary Clinton

Google executives and employees bet heavily on a Clinton victory, hoping to extend the company’s influence on the Obama White House. They lost that bet, and are left scrambling to find an entrée to the Trump administration. …

Google’s extraordinarily close relationship with President Obama’s administration led to a long list of policy victories of incalculable value to its business. …

Google’s executives and employees employed a variety of strategies to elect Hillary Clinton and defeat Donald Trump. Google permeated Clinton’s sphere of influence on a broad scale, rivaling the influence it exerted over the Obama administration. A review found at least 57 people were affiliated with both Clinton—in her presidential campaign, in her State Department, at her family foundation—and with Google or related entities. In addition, 10 people who worked under Clinton at the State Department later joined the New America Foundation, a Google-friendly think tank where Google’s Eric Schmidt served as chairman and was one of its top donors.

Although the company and its chairman, Eric Schmidt, were ultimately unsuccessful in electing Clinton, their efforts underscore the profound and novel ways a corporation can influence our democracy beyond simple financial donations.

 
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  1. dearieme says:

    “who can be bothered to Google that before writing an NYT oped?”

    Don’t we now say ‘Goolag that’?

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  2. Google qualifies as a monopoly and needs to be broken up using antitrust laws. It is worse than Standard Oil ever was.

    Read More
    • Agree: NickG
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Google qualifies as a monopoly and needs to be broken up using antitrust laws. It is worse than Standard Oil ever was."

    Then make the argument. I am open minded on this topic. We're listening...

    "Google’s executives and employees employed a variety of strategies to elect Hillary Clinton and defeat Donald Trump."

    Imagine a business trying to get one political candidate elected over another political candidate. Because favorable policies. I didn't realize American representative democracy worked in this manner. /sarcasm
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  3. Wilkey says:

    “Google’s executives and employees employed a variety of strategies to elect Hillary Clinton and defeat Donald Trump.”

    Between all that, the termination of Mr. Damore, and the fact that it actually is a tax-dodging monopoly, what reason does our Republican Congress and administration have not to regulate it like a tax-dodging monopoly?

    They have all the reason in the world, but they won’t, because far too many Republican politicians (e.g., Orrin Hatch) are corrupt shitheads who don’t know how to do the right thing, even when doing the right thing would work to their advantage. (Here I pretend that Orrin Hatch is actually still a conservative, and not the senator who voted both for amnesty and to confirm Ruth Bader Ginsburg to the SCOTUS.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    I have one good thing that Orin Hatch has been doing since at least the early 1990s. There are many vitamin and supplement manufacturers in Utah. He has been working hard for that entire sector, keeping it protected from the predatory regulators aka drones aka useless eaters of the FDA. This is why vitamin and supplements are very inexpensive here while in Europe the Big Pharmas have gotten many classified as drugs that you need a prescription for.
    btw Amazon reviews is one of the best places to get info and feedback on a vitamin or supplement you are not familiar with. I go there all the time, but not necessarily buying from AMZN.
    , @Nico

    far too many Republican politicians (e.g., Orrin Hatch) are corrupt shitheads who don’t know how to do the right thing, even when doing the right thing would work to their advantage
     
    Orrin Hatch, Jon Huntsman and Mitt Romney are proof positive that the only thing to be regretted about the LDS persecutions is that they stopped.
    , @Lugash
    GOOG is our enemy. They make good products, but we still need to fight them. Sending the DoJ after them for tax and antitrust won't work. Every corporation, newsroom, reporter, economist and lawyer in America will side with them; plus no DoJ lawyer will risk future earnings by fighting them.

    Attacking GOOG for lack of diversity might work. If nothing else it will tie our enemies in knots trying to explain themselves.
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  4. Anyone catch this bit from a McClatchy article linked to by Drudge?

    On a trip to one of the main U.S. intelligence agencies, which Scott would only identify as a three-letter agency, he said he was stuck at security with an unrelated large delegation, and inquired of a colleague who they were.
    “‘Oh, that’s Google,’” he said he was told. “‘They are always here begging us to buy their data.’”

    - http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article166488597.html

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  5. Jack D says:

    We really need a better leadership class in this country. Have any of these folks studied logic and logical fallacies? Do they know that they are engaging in fallacies and think that we are too dumb to know?

    As far as I can tell, Taplin’s logic is thus:

    1. Peter Thiel is bad.

    2. Peter Thiel is part of Silicon Valley

    3. Google is also part of Silicon Valley

    4. Therefore, Google is also bad.

    A smart 3rd grader could spot the fallacy and yet this is appearing in the NY Times. Sad.

    Read More
    • Agree: res, AndrewR
    • Replies: @Olorin
    Fallacy?

    Heck no! Peter Thiel is a supervillainesque producer of Tragic Dirt!!
    , @Stebbing Heuer
    Fallacy of the undistributed middle, is my guess.
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  6. anon says: • Disclaimer

    As a general rule, you can be sure that anybody who uses the word “brogrammer” non-ironically is yanking your chain.

    I think that’s probably a good general rule, but in this case, it seems more likely that the New York Times heard someone else say it, didn’t realize they were yanking their chain, and repeated it because they thought it really was a cool thing to say.

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  7. Tiny Duck says:

    The problem with technology is not technology, but ideology; libertarian ideology, to be precise

    If technology is viewed as a tool for the public good, then its benefits would be widely-distributed, instead of flowing towards the pockets of a very tiny minority.

    Automation, artificial intelligence, and other advances could free people up from drudgery, if for example, some type of universal income were to be implemented. Some people would then have time to engage in art, music, philosophy, writing, study, civic engagement. This would enrich our entire society, figuratively, and literally.

    Instead, under the brutish libertarian ideology, a parasitic ruling (tech) elite is accruing most of the profits from technology, while causing all kinds of social dysfunction, the dislocation of millions of people (gentrification), homelessness, poverty, and misery.

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    • Replies: @donut
    Ordinarily I wouldn't respond to you TD but I feel I must in this case because you made this argument that seems reasonable at first glance : "Automation, artificial intelligence, and other advances could free people up from drudgery, if for example, some type of universal income were to be implemented. Some people would then have time to engage in art, music, philosophy, writing, study, civic engagement. This would enrich our entire society, figuratively, and literally." But my response is that w/o the drudgery and the crushing grind of a working man's life there would be no inspiration for all the "art and etc. that you in your delusion think would spring from the common man's liberation from work , from the soul crushing daily grind . I suspect that you have never put your hand to a day of work , manual labor , work that day by day wears your body down for the profit of others . But I have , for forty years I have labored with my back and my hands and and made my living thereby and I am proud of that . I am a man and I have made my own way like John Henry .

    So many versions of this song but this is one : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9TUaHPRsq0

    White or Black John Henry was an American hero .
    , @MarkinLA
    Some people would then have time to engage in art, music, philosophy, writing, study, civic engagement.

    As if we need to subsidize even more of the trash put out that calls itself art, music, philosophy, writing, study, and civil engagement.
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  8. JoeT55 says:

    So just how did Putin’s interference in the election overcome Google’s interference?

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  9. res says:

    Will wonders never cease. The first NYT pick comment I see is both thoughtful and reasonable:

    The MacGuffin Mobile, AL 2 hours ago
    Yet another article pointing out that only 17% of Google’s tech jobs are held by women, but ignoring that only 18% of tech undergraduate degrees go to women in the first place. Google isn’t the problem when it comes to women in tech, and one of the takeaways from the memo incident should be that they’re pushing to make it better. All tech companies I’ve worked for are actively trying to hire more women, and it is seriously hard due to their rarity.

    It’s very convenient to build hate against the top dog, but let’s not forget that Google achieved their position on merit – people preferred their search engine. They’re funded on targeted advertising, but you also don’t have to use their products (like Gmail) that passively invade your privacy. Any search engine by nature collects information on your active searches. Don’t like it? Don’t use such a tool. Scapegoating Google for societal passiveness and for unscrupulous males seems a facile response.

    Want to do something about gender diversity in tech? About choice and influence? If you’re a woman, go get a tech degree. If you’re a conscientious man, go get a tech degree. If you have daughters, encourage them to go into tech. Support diversity efforts at schools. Teach your sons. Quit Google, Facebook, or Amazon if necessary. Work at Google. Vote for issues like net neutrality. Don’t just resent tech giants for not fixing all our diversity ills, or for gaining control, when we’ve long failed to show any interest in participating.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Nico

    Want to do something about gender diversity in tech?... Teach your sons.
     
    Teach them to what?

    Any way you slice it, the left-liberal paradigm, including the most reasonable and lucid among them, remains to prescribe "education" to fix ANY societal ill.
    , @KM32
    The women I know who rail against the lack of women in tech tend to have theater arts degrees or if they work for tech, are in the design part of the field. Smart women (in terms of IQ), but they weren't drawn to programming. They are convinced other women are being held back, of course.
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  10. the profound and novel ways a corporation can influence our democracy beyond simple financial donations.

    I thought Italy’s system under Mussolini was self-described as “corporatism.”

    Oh. Feature, not a bug.

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  11. Slightly OT, but can someone out there comment on the point of these “foundation” businesses like Mozilla? Is it just a virtue signalling tag that has no real liabilities (“see, we’re not really a corporation”), or are there some real tax, organizational/structural, or other advantages?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    I believe that the answer is that there are instances when you want the independence and self-interested action of a self-enclosed corporation, but without the distraction of eternal profit motive, predatory taxation or demanding shareholders. Non-profit corporations are supposed to give you the former without the latter.

    Of course there are many instances of nonprofits being exploited by profit-seekers for tax avoidance. Ikea got some flak for this, but still carries on with it as far as I know.
    , @TomSchmidt
    You can still funnel profits to the top, but of course there are no profits. So excess revenues get spent on salaries, enriching the managerial elite. Check out what "nonprofit" hospital execs earn.

    Mozilla makes a LOT of money from Google, as I think 25% of the profits from Searches run on Firefox on Google get kicked to Mozilla.
    , @Lot
    Mozilla exists to improve and maintain Firefox, which is open source software. A long time ago that source code was commercial and Netscape had a 90% market share, and the former Netscape tried to make people pay $50 to $100 for it. That effort failed when Microsoft improved and gave away for free IE. so AOL, which had purchased Netscape, set up the foundation and donated the source code.

    I don't think they ended up with a tax deduction from it because AOL-TW already had billions in losses from goodwill writedowns.
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  12. Clyde says:
    @Wilkey
    "Google’s executives and employees employed a variety of strategies to elect Hillary Clinton and defeat Donald Trump."

    Between all that, the termination of Mr. Damore, and the fact that it actually is a tax-dodging monopoly, what reason does our Republican Congress and administration have not to regulate it like a tax-dodging monopoly?

    They have all the reason in the world, but they won't, because far too many Republican politicians (e.g., Orrin Hatch) are corrupt shitheads who don't know how to do the right thing, even when doing the right thing would work to their advantage. (Here I pretend that Orrin Hatch is actually still a conservative, and not the senator who voted both for amnesty and to confirm Ruth Bader Ginsburg to the SCOTUS.)

    I have one good thing that Orin Hatch has been doing since at least the early 1990s. There are many vitamin and supplement manufacturers in Utah. He has been working hard for that entire sector, keeping it protected from the predatory regulators aka drones aka useless eaters of the FDA. This is why vitamin and supplements are very inexpensive here while in Europe the Big Pharmas have gotten many classified as drugs that you need a prescription for.
    btw Amazon reviews is one of the best places to get info and feedback on a vitamin or supplement you are not familiar with. I go there all the time, but not necessarily buying from AMZN.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yak-15
    It's hard not to buy from Amazon as they often have the best prices.
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  13. Nico says:
    @Wilkey
    "Google’s executives and employees employed a variety of strategies to elect Hillary Clinton and defeat Donald Trump."

    Between all that, the termination of Mr. Damore, and the fact that it actually is a tax-dodging monopoly, what reason does our Republican Congress and administration have not to regulate it like a tax-dodging monopoly?

    They have all the reason in the world, but they won't, because far too many Republican politicians (e.g., Orrin Hatch) are corrupt shitheads who don't know how to do the right thing, even when doing the right thing would work to their advantage. (Here I pretend that Orrin Hatch is actually still a conservative, and not the senator who voted both for amnesty and to confirm Ruth Bader Ginsburg to the SCOTUS.)

    far too many Republican politicians (e.g., Orrin Hatch) are corrupt shitheads who don’t know how to do the right thing, even when doing the right thing would work to their advantage

    Orrin Hatch, Jon Huntsman and Mitt Romney are proof positive that the only thing to be regretted about the LDS persecutions is that they stopped.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    I don't think the three of them combined are as bad as Evan McMuffin.
    , @Wilkey
    "Orrin Hatch, Jon Huntsman and Mitt Romney are proof positive that the only thing to be regretted about the LDS persecutions is that they stopped."

    As opposed to McCain, Graham, Lott, McConnell, and so many other non-Mormon Republicans, who are so much better?

    Once upon a time the Mormon Church actually stood for things that were worthwhile: patriotism, family, independence. The LDS Church today has thrown its lot in with the globalists. It has betrayed its members while parting them from their time and their money. Until members start theatening to leave over this (or just withhold their tithes) nothing will change. I wish I hadn't already left (for the simple reason that I thought it was a crock) or I'd now be threatening to leave over immigration and several other issues.
    , @Judah Benjamin Hur
    My dream is that left-leaning Jews will identify with winner minorities like Mormons instead of the usual suspects. The truth is that Mormons have historically faced more discrimination in the USA than Jews.
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  14. Nico says:
    @res
    Will wonders never cease. The first NYT pick comment I see is both thoughtful and reasonable:

    The MacGuffin Mobile, AL 2 hours ago
    Yet another article pointing out that only 17% of Google's tech jobs are held by women, but ignoring that only 18% of tech undergraduate degrees go to women in the first place. Google isn't the problem when it comes to women in tech, and one of the takeaways from the memo incident should be that they're pushing to make it better. All tech companies I've worked for are actively trying to hire more women, and it is seriously hard due to their rarity.

    It's very convenient to build hate against the top dog, but let's not forget that Google achieved their position on merit - people preferred their search engine. They're funded on targeted advertising, but you also don't have to use their products (like Gmail) that passively invade your privacy. Any search engine by nature collects information on your active searches. Don't like it? Don't use such a tool. Scapegoating Google for societal passiveness and for unscrupulous males seems a facile response.

    Want to do something about gender diversity in tech? About choice and influence? If you're a woman, go get a tech degree. If you're a conscientious man, go get a tech degree. If you have daughters, encourage them to go into tech. Support diversity efforts at schools. Teach your sons. Quit Google, Facebook, or Amazon if necessary. Work at Google. Vote for issues like net neutrality. Don't just resent tech giants for not fixing all our diversity ills, or for gaining control, when we've long failed to show any interest in participating.
     

    Want to do something about gender diversity in tech?… Teach your sons.

    Teach them to what?

    Any way you slice it, the left-liberal paradigm, including the most reasonable and lucid among them, remains to prescribe “education” to fix ANY societal ill.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Well, those aren't my words, but I am guessing he meant something like teach your sons that some women are able to do X (where here X is tech work). If I had my way it would also include teaching them (and by "teach" I mean more as a parent than as an educator, I think he did too, hence the word sons) a realistic view of both sex and race average differences and the implications thereof.

    Agreed with your last bit except I would add legal coercion and mob justice to the list.
    , @Olorin
    Just had this discussion with the in-laws this morning...and they are most certainly not left-liberal.

    The Ed Biz managed to convince many people of varied political and social views that education is a magic black box where you put carbon units in one end and fully functional whatevers come out the other.

    I would much prefer competence, innovation, and enhanced civilization in tech to "gender diversity." But only a very small slice of humans can produce that.

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  15. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    They attack Google and to some extent Apple as not being diverse. But these are two of the largest and most successful companies on the planet. So their strategy, including a male dominated work force, must be working.

    Why no discussion about Yahoo and other companies, who are more diverse, but have had quite different results?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Njguy73

    Why no discussion about Yahoo and other companies, who are more diverse, but have had quite different results?
     
    Shaking down Yahoo is like robbing a Sears. It's punching down.
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  16. Make no mistake: Peter “Monopoly” Thiel is as evil as Google is…just a different flavor.

    It’s rumored that he has invested millions in high-tech longevity research, and even whispered about that he may have been receiving experimental immortality treatments in secret for quite some time now. He certainly intends to outlive superfluous humanity. It was with high tech parasites like him in mind that Alex Jones once indicted elites for their plans, treasonous to the human race itself, to “upload their consciousness to immortal machines and set out to explore the cosmos.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @advancedatheist
    I wouldn't read too much into Thiel's interest in, say, receiving blood transfusions from the young to try to rejuvenate himself.

    Despite what you hear from conspiracy kooks like Alex Jones, the super-rich don't have access to some effective super-medicine that the rest of us don't know about or don't have access to. Steve Jobs's billions couldn't cure his cancer, for example, and he wasted a perfectly good transplantable liver on himself in his last months that could have gone to someone with a better prognosis. Billionaires notoriously squander a lot of money on futile health care and quackery.

    , @Njguy73
    Click to find out what's in Thiel's consciousness now:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a3eCHij4Vo
    , @ATX Hipster
    Rumored? Whispered about?

    A Gulag search for "peter thiel longevity research" comes back with 46k results, many of which include quotes from Thiel.

    Honestly, it's kind of hard to blame a billionaire for wanting to live forever.
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  17. KM32 says:
    @res
    Will wonders never cease. The first NYT pick comment I see is both thoughtful and reasonable:

    The MacGuffin Mobile, AL 2 hours ago
    Yet another article pointing out that only 17% of Google's tech jobs are held by women, but ignoring that only 18% of tech undergraduate degrees go to women in the first place. Google isn't the problem when it comes to women in tech, and one of the takeaways from the memo incident should be that they're pushing to make it better. All tech companies I've worked for are actively trying to hire more women, and it is seriously hard due to their rarity.

    It's very convenient to build hate against the top dog, but let's not forget that Google achieved their position on merit - people preferred their search engine. They're funded on targeted advertising, but you also don't have to use their products (like Gmail) that passively invade your privacy. Any search engine by nature collects information on your active searches. Don't like it? Don't use such a tool. Scapegoating Google for societal passiveness and for unscrupulous males seems a facile response.

    Want to do something about gender diversity in tech? About choice and influence? If you're a woman, go get a tech degree. If you're a conscientious man, go get a tech degree. If you have daughters, encourage them to go into tech. Support diversity efforts at schools. Teach your sons. Quit Google, Facebook, or Amazon if necessary. Work at Google. Vote for issues like net neutrality. Don't just resent tech giants for not fixing all our diversity ills, or for gaining control, when we've long failed to show any interest in participating.
     

    The women I know who rail against the lack of women in tech tend to have theater arts degrees or if they work for tech, are in the design part of the field. Smart women (in terms of IQ), but they weren’t drawn to programming. They are convinced other women are being held back, of course.

    Read More
    • Agree: res
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  18. schmenz says:

    Who cares about that screaming homo Peter Thiel? The kinds of things he supports makes one want to vomit.

    Read More
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  19. Spud Boy says:

    Apparently, you don’t need to be very intelligent to write for the NYT. Here’s Taplin’s logic:

    Thiel correctly notes that women’s suffrage changed the direction of our democracy;

    therefore,

    Thiel believes that women shouldn’t have the right to vote.

    Read More
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  20. res says:
    @Nico

    Want to do something about gender diversity in tech?... Teach your sons.
     
    Teach them to what?

    Any way you slice it, the left-liberal paradigm, including the most reasonable and lucid among them, remains to prescribe "education" to fix ANY societal ill.

    Well, those aren’t my words, but I am guessing he meant something like teach your sons that some women are able to do X (where here X is tech work). If I had my way it would also include teaching them (and by “teach” I mean more as a parent than as an educator, I think he did too, hence the word sons) a realistic view of both sex and race average differences and the implications thereof.

    Agreed with your last bit except I would add legal coercion and mob justice to the list.

    Read More
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  21. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Google is googlobalist.

    NYT is also globalist.

    So, they are both evil.

    What is this mantra about diversity? If it’s so good, why doesn’t NYT bitch about its lack in NBA and NFL? Or in exec positions in Hollywood?

    And don’t Asians ever count as diversity? Or do they lack the right idolatry of diversity?

    And what of Unfair Over-representation? Looks to me Jews are probably ‘unfairly’ over-represented at the NYT.

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  22. Lugash says:
    @Wilkey
    "Google’s executives and employees employed a variety of strategies to elect Hillary Clinton and defeat Donald Trump."

    Between all that, the termination of Mr. Damore, and the fact that it actually is a tax-dodging monopoly, what reason does our Republican Congress and administration have not to regulate it like a tax-dodging monopoly?

    They have all the reason in the world, but they won't, because far too many Republican politicians (e.g., Orrin Hatch) are corrupt shitheads who don't know how to do the right thing, even when doing the right thing would work to their advantage. (Here I pretend that Orrin Hatch is actually still a conservative, and not the senator who voted both for amnesty and to confirm Ruth Bader Ginsburg to the SCOTUS.)

    GOOG is our enemy. They make good products, but we still need to fight them. Sending the DoJ after them for tax and antitrust won’t work. Every corporation, newsroom, reporter, economist and lawyer in America will side with them; plus no DoJ lawyer will risk future earnings by fighting them.

    Attacking GOOG for lack of diversity might work. If nothing else it will tie our enemies in knots trying to explain themselves.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    The EU has made Google pay billions in antitrust fines despite being more globoleft than the DoJ.

    Google also had to pay a lot in a private antitrust suit for its conspiracy to fix programmer wages. They were caught red handed, including obviously criminal emails between Steve Jobs and Eric Schmitt. Obama's DoJ could have filed seperate criminal antitrust claims against them, but did not. It isn't at all unusual to have both civil and criminal antitrust cases over the same behavior. Civil is to compensate the victims, criminal is to punish and deter.
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  23. AndrewR says:
    @Nico

    far too many Republican politicians (e.g., Orrin Hatch) are corrupt shitheads who don’t know how to do the right thing, even when doing the right thing would work to their advantage
     
    Orrin Hatch, Jon Huntsman and Mitt Romney are proof positive that the only thing to be regretted about the LDS persecutions is that they stopped.

    I don’t think the three of them combined are as bad as Evan McMuffin.

    Read More
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  24. El Dato says:

    a libertarian culture that paid only lip service to notions of diversity.

    Aw Gawd. If it’s libertarian culture OF COURSE it will tell you to move the diversity paraphernalia to where the sun doesn’t shine.

    So it was less the Russians than the Googalians/Goolagians influencing (or to use the Silly-con Valley neologism, “thinkfluencing”) the election? Who would have, err… thought?

    On-Topic: Jerktech: When Callow Ideas Become Code. Technologically mediated obnoxiousness is spawning a new lexicon

    Off-Topic: 3 NGOs suspend migrant rescues over ‘threats’ from Libya: MSF complains that people can’t find the safety of Europe when they need it.

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  25. @yaqub the mad scientist
    Slightly OT, but can someone out there comment on the point of these "foundation" businesses like Mozilla? Is it just a virtue signalling tag that has no real liabilities ("see, we're not really a corporation"), or are there some real tax, organizational/structural, or other advantages?

    I believe that the answer is that there are instances when you want the independence and self-interested action of a self-enclosed corporation, but without the distraction of eternal profit motive, predatory taxation or demanding shareholders. Non-profit corporations are supposed to give you the former without the latter.

    Of course there are many instances of nonprofits being exploited by profit-seekers for tax avoidance. Ikea got some flak for this, but still carries on with it as far as I know.

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  26. Yak-15 says:
    @Clyde
    I have one good thing that Orin Hatch has been doing since at least the early 1990s. There are many vitamin and supplement manufacturers in Utah. He has been working hard for that entire sector, keeping it protected from the predatory regulators aka drones aka useless eaters of the FDA. This is why vitamin and supplements are very inexpensive here while in Europe the Big Pharmas have gotten many classified as drugs that you need a prescription for.
    btw Amazon reviews is one of the best places to get info and feedback on a vitamin or supplement you are not familiar with. I go there all the time, but not necessarily buying from AMZN.

    It’s hard not to buy from Amazon as they often have the best prices.

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  27. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Taplin’s argument is that Goolag’s monopoly is bad because it’s way too white a company. A diverse monopoly would be a good thing.

    Don’t tell Taplin that Bezos’ real last name is Jorgensen!

    Taplin’s wiki page tells the story of a very successful white guy who spent his salad days making $$$ with a lot of other white guys. BUT DON’T YOU DARE DO THAT, YOU RACIST.

    Give this guy a lie detector test and ask him how many women came up with actual wealth generating ideas during his career.

    He worked for Milken in the 80s and now he’s SJW. As Tom Brady says, “Figure it out.”

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    He worked for Milken in the 80s and now he’s SJW. As Tom Brady says, “Figure it out.”

    Heck, Mike Milken is now SJW.

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  28. The NYT is just full of intersectional goodness today.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/13/world/canada/canada-migrants-temporary-farmworkers-program.html

    Canada’s seasonal agriculture worker program was set up to recruit migrants from Mexico and 11 Caribbean nations to work for up to eight months a year to address chronic labor shortages.

    But critics say the program is poorly supervised, leaving workers vulnerable to exploitation by employers, often denied the Canadian labor benefits they are entitled to and at risk of deportation if they complain about employment conditions

    Hmmm. I guess it’s ok to have a social welfare state AND guest workers, so long as the guest workers don’t get any benefits.

    It’s fun to read quotes like this:

    “This program is a form of apartheid,” said Chris Ramsaroop, an organizer with Justicia for Migrant Workers, a labor rights organization based in Ontario.

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  29. @yaqub the mad scientist
    Slightly OT, but can someone out there comment on the point of these "foundation" businesses like Mozilla? Is it just a virtue signalling tag that has no real liabilities ("see, we're not really a corporation"), or are there some real tax, organizational/structural, or other advantages?

    You can still funnel profits to the top, but of course there are no profits. So excess revenues get spent on salaries, enriching the managerial elite. Check out what “nonprofit” hospital execs earn.

    Mozilla makes a LOT of money from Google, as I think 25% of the profits from Searches run on Firefox on Google get kicked to Mozilla.

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  30. Wilkey says:
    @Nico

    far too many Republican politicians (e.g., Orrin Hatch) are corrupt shitheads who don’t know how to do the right thing, even when doing the right thing would work to their advantage
     
    Orrin Hatch, Jon Huntsman and Mitt Romney are proof positive that the only thing to be regretted about the LDS persecutions is that they stopped.

    “Orrin Hatch, Jon Huntsman and Mitt Romney are proof positive that the only thing to be regretted about the LDS persecutions is that they stopped.”

    As opposed to McCain, Graham, Lott, McConnell, and so many other non-Mormon Republicans, who are so much better?

    Once upon a time the Mormon Church actually stood for things that were worthwhile: patriotism, family, independence. The LDS Church today has thrown its lot in with the globalists. It has betrayed its members while parting them from their time and their money. Until members start theatening to leave over this (or just withhold their tithes) nothing will change. I wish I hadn’t already left (for the simple reason that I thought it was a crock) or I’d now be threatening to leave over immigration and several other issues.

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    • Agree: BB753
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  31. I guess Thiel’s homosexuality doesn’t shield him from criticism by the social-justice obsessives. Perhaps his background as a German immigrant and a nominal Catholic annul the points he would otherwise have from his sexual degeneracy.

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    • Replies: @sarahA
    He donated money to Trump's campaign. Trump is evil, therefore Thiel is evil. It's the transitive property.
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  32. @anonymous-antiskynetist
    Make no mistake: Peter "Monopoly" Thiel is as evil as Google is...just a different flavor.

    It's rumored that he has invested millions in high-tech longevity research, and even whispered about that he may have been receiving experimental immortality treatments in secret for quite some time now. He certainly intends to outlive superfluous humanity. It was with high tech parasites like him in mind that Alex Jones once indicted elites for their plans, treasonous to the human race itself, to "upload their consciousness to immortal machines and set out to explore the cosmos."

    I wouldn’t read too much into Thiel’s interest in, say, receiving blood transfusions from the young to try to rejuvenate himself.

    Despite what you hear from conspiracy kooks like Alex Jones, the super-rich don’t have access to some effective super-medicine that the rest of us don’t know about or don’t have access to. Steve Jobs’s billions couldn’t cure his cancer, for example, and he wasted a perfectly good transplantable liver on himself in his last months that could have gone to someone with a better prognosis. Billionaires notoriously squander a lot of money on futile health care and quackery.

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  33. asdf says:

    So it google evil or not? They supported Hillary, fired the right guy when told to…

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  34. This time it’s the Guardian again, being flayed below the line.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/09/google-memo-man-women-tech-original-computer-programmers

    Top rated

    “James Damore’s controversial manifesto says women are genetically unsuited to tech roles”

    It says no such thing. It says there is a distribution of women, some suited perfectly to it, and some really not, same as men, but with the distributions shifted very slightly apart. Your article is based upon this basic misunderstanding.

    Next highest

    Damore’s memo was nuanced, and reasonable. The response, hysterical.

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  35. This is why I’m disgusted that Trump is going out of his way to appease Silicon Valley through his weasel son-in-law Jared Kushner. He still hasn’t done a dang thing about the H1b visa which is basically the Indian Full Employment Act. Google and Facebook combined makes up the company in Dave Egger’s “The Circle”, they are the faces of the evil corporations of America, the enemy of the people. All they care about is their cheap labor, $80Billion just isn’t enough, they need to get richer.

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  36. anonguy says:

    OT, but assuming the worst about the C-ville driver, why isn’t anyone worrying about unwarranted and bigoted backlash against conservatives?

    He’s just a misguided nut that doesn’t represent the Ideology of Peace (conservatism) and now the conservative community is frighteded about undeserved backlash, needs some safe spaces, etc.

    You guys need to organize some frontlash.

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    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
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  37. Mr. Anon says:

    OT: Stacey Evans, a Georgia state legislator and Democratic candidate for governor gets the Bernie Sanders Treatment at Netroots:

    Protestors shout down Stacey Evans at Netroots

    Just stand there and smile, Stacey. You can’t fight back, because they’re black. This is what it means to be a white person in the Democratic Party today.

    Fauxcahontas also spoke at Netroots, promising no return to the centrist triangulating of the Clinton Era, but rather unabashed left-wing progressivism.

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    • Replies: @larry lurker
    I think if she'd said "y'all" a few more times she could've gotten through to them.

    I did a little protesting in college (mostly against the Iraq War) before swinging center or whatever has happened to me in the last few years. If we protested an event, we would do it out front, 20+ feet from the entrance. We might be out front and center but we didn't disrupt the crowd flow too much. Everybody entering and exiting would see us.

    It never would have occurred to us to actually enter venues and ruin events like this. It just looks so bad.
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  38. Lot says:

    Lynn’s paper on the decline of worldwide IQ

    http://www.iapsych.com/iqmr/fe/LinkedDocuments/lynn2008.pdf

    Qin posted a link to an Indian fertility map show extreme dysgenic fertility within India. This is a problem throughout the third world. US IQ is declining via third world migration, partially offset by high IQ immigration. But we do not actually have much decline in IQ within the native white population.

    By contrast, in much of the non Western world dysgenic fertility in extremely bad, probably worse than at anytime in the West.

    Lynn on dysgenic fertility in Taiwan

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289616303038

    In mainland China

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303857537_Evidence_of_dysgenic_fertility_in_China

    First chapter of Lynn’s 2011 book:

    http://www.ulsterinstitute.org/preview/DYSGENICS_chapter1.pdf

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    • Replies: @neutral
    So the question is just how far can this dysgenics go until real evolution pushes back ? I never thought that the movie "Idiocracy" was realistic because a global dysgenic collapse would be extremely unlikely, eventually there would be some nation (or other form of grouping) that would not fall to dysgenic ideology, if the rest of world became really much dumber in comparison then the pockets of non dysgenics will eventually rule the rest and repopulate the rest with their superior stock.
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  39. Lot says:
    @yaqub the mad scientist
    Slightly OT, but can someone out there comment on the point of these "foundation" businesses like Mozilla? Is it just a virtue signalling tag that has no real liabilities ("see, we're not really a corporation"), or are there some real tax, organizational/structural, or other advantages?

    Mozilla exists to improve and maintain Firefox, which is open source software. A long time ago that source code was commercial and Netscape had a 90% market share, and the former Netscape tried to make people pay $50 to $100 for it. That effort failed when Microsoft improved and gave away for free IE. so AOL, which had purchased Netscape, set up the foundation and donated the source code.

    I don’t think they ended up with a tax deduction from it because AOL-TW already had billions in losses from goodwill writedowns.

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    • Replies: @jim jones
    I use Pale Moon which is a branch Firefox with all the junk removed
    , @Clyde

    Mozilla exists to improve and maintain Firefox, which is open source software. A long time ago that source code was commercial and Netscape had a 90% market share, and the former Netscape tried to make people pay $50 to $100 for it. That effort failed when Microsoft improved and gave away for free IE. so AOL, which had purchased Netscape, set up the foundation and donated the source code.
     
    In late 1996 I watched a friend pay $17 for boxed Netscape in a CompUSA. I was content to use the free Internet Explorer. What a dorky name.
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  40. jim jones says:
    @Lot
    Mozilla exists to improve and maintain Firefox, which is open source software. A long time ago that source code was commercial and Netscape had a 90% market share, and the former Netscape tried to make people pay $50 to $100 for it. That effort failed when Microsoft improved and gave away for free IE. so AOL, which had purchased Netscape, set up the foundation and donated the source code.

    I don't think they ended up with a tax deduction from it because AOL-TW already had billions in losses from goodwill writedowns.

    I use Pale Moon which is a branch Firefox with all the junk removed

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  41. Lot says:
    @Lugash
    GOOG is our enemy. They make good products, but we still need to fight them. Sending the DoJ after them for tax and antitrust won't work. Every corporation, newsroom, reporter, economist and lawyer in America will side with them; plus no DoJ lawyer will risk future earnings by fighting them.

    Attacking GOOG for lack of diversity might work. If nothing else it will tie our enemies in knots trying to explain themselves.

    The EU has made Google pay billions in antitrust fines despite being more globoleft than the DoJ.

    Google also had to pay a lot in a private antitrust suit for its conspiracy to fix programmer wages. They were caught red handed, including obviously criminal emails between Steve Jobs and Eric Schmitt. Obama’s DoJ could have filed seperate criminal antitrust claims against them, but did not. It isn’t at all unusual to have both civil and criminal antitrust cases over the same behavior. Civil is to compensate the victims, criminal is to punish and deter.

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  42. Flip says:

    I wish I were rich and could afford to buy a second citizenship (or maybe third since he was born in Germany) in New Zealand as a back up plan.

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  43. Clyde says:
    @Lot
    Mozilla exists to improve and maintain Firefox, which is open source software. A long time ago that source code was commercial and Netscape had a 90% market share, and the former Netscape tried to make people pay $50 to $100 for it. That effort failed when Microsoft improved and gave away for free IE. so AOL, which had purchased Netscape, set up the foundation and donated the source code.

    I don't think they ended up with a tax deduction from it because AOL-TW already had billions in losses from goodwill writedowns.

    Mozilla exists to improve and maintain Firefox, which is open source software. A long time ago that source code was commercial and Netscape had a 90% market share, and the former Netscape tried to make people pay $50 to $100 for it. That effort failed when Microsoft improved and gave away for free IE. so AOL, which had purchased Netscape, set up the foundation and donated the source code.

    In late 1996 I watched a friend pay $17 for boxed Netscape in a CompUSA. I was content to use the free Internet Explorer. What a dorky name.

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  44. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Shiite, black Pence looks like Obama.

    Maybe we can have transracial presidency to please everyone.

    The media must use face app filters to present the president as a different race everyday.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    South Asian Donald Trump looks like Al Sharpton.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    African American Trump is still better looking than Maxine Waters.
    , @Ivy
    Good thing I have a strong stomach, looking at such pictures.
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  45. Lot says:

    David Brooks defends Damore, says Pikachu should resign.

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/11/opinion/sundar-pichai-google-memo-diversity.html

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  46. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    About foundations such as the Linux Foundation, etc..

    Decades ago there were lots of efforts in the computer industry to form “standards”. As in plumbing, an entire industry often needs to agree on things for everything to move forward. Many of these efforts were flops. It just didn’t seem to work. Software moved too fast, there were too many details that had to all be right, the thing was too complex for single companies to implement, etc..

    Many of the current software foundations are built around an open source project or projects and are effectively a legal means for a segment of an industry to cooperate on something they all need, that is, a standard system. These have effectively replaced explicit standards with executing bodies of code that implicitly define a standard. If your stuff works with the project code base, well it works, if not, it doesn’t. The code itself becomes the standard.

    Because usually anyone worldwide can work on the code base, if they have the right skills, there needs to be some legal way to deal with the issues that come up.

    It’s pretty similar to foundations that deal with the documentation, standards, conferences, and procedings that come up in areas as diverse as the ham radio organization, the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), still going strong (founded in 1914), or I imagine what the world-wide chess organizations are like, etc..

    Because these are defacto standards, and if you are a company it is always nice to be able to set the standard, a lot of companies make their software that they think might become the core of a world-wide standard available as open source under a foundation umbrella.

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  47. whorefinder says: • Website

    At a certain point, I hope, many people will recognize that no matter how much money they throw at the Left and how much they grovel the Left will still call for their heads if they even think about stepping out of line. That would be a boon for us, since once they realize they are dealing with unreasonable crazies, they may do the sane thing and actively oppose them.

    Sigh. One can only hope.

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  48. @Anon
    Shiite, black Pence looks like Obama.

    http://www.diversityinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/FaceApp.png

    Maybe we can have transracial presidency to please everyone.

    The media must use face app filters to present the president as a different race everyday.

    South Asian Donald Trump looks like Al Sharpton.

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    • Replies: @BB753
    Black Pence looks like Obama!
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  49. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    WE ARE GOOGLE. INFORMATION IS FUTILE. SEARCH FOR FACTS IN VAIN.

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  50. Gamergate — an online movement that targeted women in the video game industry

    I believe that is the most fantastically, maliciously inaccurate description of Gamergate I have ever read.

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  51. @Anonymous
    Taplin's argument is that Goolag's monopoly is bad because it's way too white a company. A diverse monopoly would be a good thing.

    Don't tell Taplin that Bezos' real last name is Jorgensen!

    Taplin's wiki page tells the story of a very successful white guy who spent his salad days making $$$ with a lot of other white guys. BUT DON'T YOU DARE DO THAT, YOU RACIST.

    Give this guy a lie detector test and ask him how many women came up with actual wealth generating ideas during his career.

    He worked for Milken in the 80s and now he's SJW. As Tom Brady says, "Figure it out."

    He worked for Milken in the 80s and now he’s SJW. As Tom Brady says, “Figure it out.”

    Heck, Mike Milken is now SJW.

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    • Replies: @anonguy

    Heck, Mike Milken is now SJW.
     
    That's what gets me about SJW-ism. I have many friends now espousing views that are diametrically opposed to their core beliefs from several decades ago.

    I used to joke that diversity, green stuff, sex issues, etc, were elements of a new religion but recently decided it wasn't a joke, it really is effectively a religion.

    The cognitive distance people like Milken have to move, to square all the circles for themselves between what they used to believe and what they now do is indistinguishable from a religious conversion. There is no way this could have been done by reasoned debate, argument, etc.

    Actually, in Milken's case, it might just be opportunism, but for most people....

    I used to troll SJWs around me, but since deciding it was a real religion, I backed off for my own well-being. SJW-ism is unkind to its apostates, heretics, and infidels.
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  52. Olorin says:
    @Jack D
    We really need a better leadership class in this country. Have any of these folks studied logic and logical fallacies? Do they know that they are engaging in fallacies and think that we are too dumb to know?

    As far as I can tell, Taplin's logic is thus:

    1. Peter Thiel is bad.

    2. Peter Thiel is part of Silicon Valley

    3. Google is also part of Silicon Valley

    4. Therefore, Google is also bad.

    A smart 3rd grader could spot the fallacy and yet this is appearing in the NY Times. Sad.

    Fallacy?

    Heck no! Peter Thiel is a supervillainesque producer of Tragic Dirt!!

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  53. Njguy73 says:
    @anonymous
    They attack Google and to some extent Apple as not being diverse. But these are two of the largest and most successful companies on the planet. So their strategy, including a male dominated work force, must be working.

    Why no discussion about Yahoo and other companies, who are more diverse, but have had quite different results?

    Why no discussion about Yahoo and other companies, who are more diverse, but have had quite different results?

    Shaking down Yahoo is like robbing a Sears. It’s punching down.

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  54. Njguy73 says:
    @anonymous-antiskynetist
    Make no mistake: Peter "Monopoly" Thiel is as evil as Google is...just a different flavor.

    It's rumored that he has invested millions in high-tech longevity research, and even whispered about that he may have been receiving experimental immortality treatments in secret for quite some time now. He certainly intends to outlive superfluous humanity. It was with high tech parasites like him in mind that Alex Jones once indicted elites for their plans, treasonous to the human race itself, to "upload their consciousness to immortal machines and set out to explore the cosmos."

    Click to find out what’s in Thiel’s consciousness now:

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  55. Olorin says:
    @Nico

    Want to do something about gender diversity in tech?... Teach your sons.
     
    Teach them to what?

    Any way you slice it, the left-liberal paradigm, including the most reasonable and lucid among them, remains to prescribe "education" to fix ANY societal ill.

    Just had this discussion with the in-laws this morning…and they are most certainly not left-liberal.

    The Ed Biz managed to convince many people of varied political and social views that education is a magic black box where you put carbon units in one end and fully functional whatevers come out the other.

    I would much prefer competence, innovation, and enhanced civilization in tech to “gender diversity.” But only a very small slice of humans can produce that.

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    • Agree: Nico
    • Replies: @Nico
    Regrettably, left-liberal truisms have si poisoned the general imagination that truly immune and pure specimens are a rarity, including among decent folks.

    As far as education is concerned, though, it is important not to fall (as my own previous post did) into the left-liberal trap of conflating "education" with "schooling." I'm a believer in negative reinforcements and observation has taught me that hitting pocketbooks is far more educational than gabbing. That's why I am a huge advocate of charging surfaites by pound * mile. I guarantee carbon emissions AND obesity will drop dramatically within a decade. Take that, edumaciators.
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  56. Olorin says:

    Although the company and its chairman, Eric Schmidt, were ultimately unsuccessful in electing Clinton,

    And there’s the rub.

    In their view, the electorate is there for them to program and push like buttons.

    It didn’t work (this time/yet), and they are enraged. Not at Donald J. Trump. At those who voted for him against all expert predictions of how successfully they had programmed the outcome.

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  57. @Nico

    far too many Republican politicians (e.g., Orrin Hatch) are corrupt shitheads who don’t know how to do the right thing, even when doing the right thing would work to their advantage
     
    Orrin Hatch, Jon Huntsman and Mitt Romney are proof positive that the only thing to be regretted about the LDS persecutions is that they stopped.

    My dream is that left-leaning Jews will identify with winner minorities like Mormons instead of the usual suspects. The truth is that Mormons have historically faced more discrimination in the USA than Jews.

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    • Replies: @AM

    The truth is that Mormons have historically faced more discrimination in the USA than Jews.
     
    There is some good reason for that. In a Christian country, Mormons push the very boundaries of what it means to be Christian, including breaking it's rules on monogamy.

    Yes, today they seem like a tame bunch, but please remember that for Utah to join the union the Mormons had to change and outlaw polygamy. They also didn't let blacks be priests until 1978 and have quite some interesting thoughts on dark skin. They thought the mark of Cain was to be dark skinned and thus keeping what few blacks who did join as semi-second class worshipers until 1978.

    Just a quick think through of what polygamy must do to a society that values individual freedom is alone enough to justify the exile to Utah. Polygamy is not a little innocent, individual choice - it radically shapes a society and pushes alpha males to oligarchies that are difficult for average males to break or participate in.

    It is not to overstate the matter that republics can only happen with monogamous societies.

    It's time to let go of the idea that discrimination happens because people do it randomly. They do not. The vast majority of the time, rightly or wrongly, people are attempting to protect their society and culture.


    My dream is that left-leaning Jews will identify with winner minorities like Mormons instead of the usual suspects.
     
    Given what I told you of the "winner" Mormons, are you so sure?
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  58. sarahA says:
    @advancedatheist
    I guess Thiel's homosexuality doesn't shield him from criticism by the social-justice obsessives. Perhaps his background as a German immigrant and a nominal Catholic annul the points he would otherwise have from his sexual degeneracy.

    He donated money to Trump’s campaign. Trump is evil, therefore Thiel is evil. It’s the transitive property.

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    • Replies: @AM

    He donated money to Trump’s campaign. Trump is evil, therefore Thiel is evil. It’s the transitive property.
     
    People on the right tend to think that lefties overthink things, because they do. This is the correct line of the thinking. In the this case, his gayness just makes him a perv and potential child molester, rather than a downtrodden victim. Because Trump is bad and it rubs off.
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  59. neutral says:
    @Lot
    Lynn's paper on the decline of worldwide IQ

    http://www.iapsych.com/iqmr/fe/LinkedDocuments/lynn2008.pdf

    Qin posted a link to an Indian fertility map show extreme dysgenic fertility within India. This is a problem throughout the third world. US IQ is declining via third world migration, partially offset by high IQ immigration. But we do not actually have much decline in IQ within the native white population.

    By contrast, in much of the non Western world dysgenic fertility in extremely bad, probably worse than at anytime in the West.

    Lynn on dysgenic fertility in Taiwan

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289616303038

    In mainland China

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303857537_Evidence_of_dysgenic_fertility_in_China

    First chapter of Lynn's 2011 book:

    http://www.ulsterinstitute.org/preview/DYSGENICS_chapter1.pdf

    So the question is just how far can this dysgenics go until real evolution pushes back ? I never thought that the movie “Idiocracy” was realistic because a global dysgenic collapse would be extremely unlikely, eventually there would be some nation (or other form of grouping) that would not fall to dysgenic ideology, if the rest of world became really much dumber in comparison then the pockets of non dysgenics will eventually rule the rest and repopulate the rest with their superior stock.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    pockets of non dysgenics will eventually rule the rest and repopulate the rest with their superior stock.
     
    This assumes they get their "smart" head out of their behinds and start doing, rather than thinking "Wow, how do I get people to see how smart I am?"

    High IQ people can go stoopid on you because they think life owes them something and get lazy.
    , @Lot
    I see nothing to change the trend in the next 50 years. I also see no evidence that high IQ populations have a desire to repopulate anywhere, unlike Africans.
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  60. AM says:
    @Judah Benjamin Hur
    My dream is that left-leaning Jews will identify with winner minorities like Mormons instead of the usual suspects. The truth is that Mormons have historically faced more discrimination in the USA than Jews.

    The truth is that Mormons have historically faced more discrimination in the USA than Jews.

    There is some good reason for that. In a Christian country, Mormons push the very boundaries of what it means to be Christian, including breaking it’s rules on monogamy.

    Yes, today they seem like a tame bunch, but please remember that for Utah to join the union the Mormons had to change and outlaw polygamy. They also didn’t let blacks be priests until 1978 and have quite some interesting thoughts on dark skin. They thought the mark of Cain was to be dark skinned and thus keeping what few blacks who did join as semi-second class worshipers until 1978.

    Just a quick think through of what polygamy must do to a society that values individual freedom is alone enough to justify the exile to Utah. Polygamy is not a little innocent, individual choice – it radically shapes a society and pushes alpha males to oligarchies that are difficult for average males to break or participate in.

    It is not to overstate the matter that republics can only happen with monogamous societies.

    It’s time to let go of the idea that discrimination happens because people do it randomly. They do not. The vast majority of the time, rightly or wrongly, people are attempting to protect their society and culture.

    My dream is that left-leaning Jews will identify with winner minorities like Mormons instead of the usual suspects.

    Given what I told you of the “winner” Mormons, are you so sure?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Mormonism is barely Christianity - at the very least it is strongly heretical, more so than most Protestant sects. Pre-Reformation they would have hunted the Mormons down and burned them at the stake.

    Christianity picked up monogamy from the Romans, who believed strongly in it. Before Mormonism, there had not been any polygamous Christian sects since the earliest days of the church, if ever.
    , @Curle
    The Book of Mormon was mostly assembled by Sidney Rigdon a defrocked Campbellite minister (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbellite) who combined elements of a fantasy tale written by Samuel Spaulding (Manuscript Lost) with his own Christian heretical thoughts about religion. That's the closest Mormonism comes to Christianity.

    See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spalding%E2%80%93Rigdon_theory_of_Book_of_Mormon_authorship

    Given a broader and thorough treatment here https://www.amazon.com/Who-Really-Wrote-Book-Mormon/dp/0758605277
    , @Judah Benjamin Hur
    Let's say your next door neighbor was selling his house. Obviously, you are going to be concerned about who buys the house. Wouldn't you be happy to find out your new neighbors are Mormon? What group has better values than them TODAY (not in the 19th century)? Mormons statistically beat just about everyone. They have very low rates of illegitimacy, alcoholism, drug abuse, crime, and so forth. They're, on average, much healthier and are also have above-replacement fertility rates.

    I'm not endorsing their religious beliefs (which I wouldn't pretend to understand), but the results speak for themselves.
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  61. AM says:
    @neutral
    So the question is just how far can this dysgenics go until real evolution pushes back ? I never thought that the movie "Idiocracy" was realistic because a global dysgenic collapse would be extremely unlikely, eventually there would be some nation (or other form of grouping) that would not fall to dysgenic ideology, if the rest of world became really much dumber in comparison then the pockets of non dysgenics will eventually rule the rest and repopulate the rest with their superior stock.

    pockets of non dysgenics will eventually rule the rest and repopulate the rest with their superior stock.

    This assumes they get their “smart” head out of their behinds and start doing, rather than thinking “Wow, how do I get people to see how smart I am?”

    High IQ people can go stoopid on you because they think life owes them something and get lazy.

    Read More
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  62. AM says:
    @sarahA
    He donated money to Trump's campaign. Trump is evil, therefore Thiel is evil. It's the transitive property.

    He donated money to Trump’s campaign. Trump is evil, therefore Thiel is evil. It’s the transitive property.

    People on the right tend to think that lefties overthink things, because they do. This is the correct line of the thinking. In the this case, his gayness just makes him a perv and potential child molester, rather than a downtrodden victim. Because Trump is bad and it rubs off.

    Read More
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  63. Lot says:
    @neutral
    So the question is just how far can this dysgenics go until real evolution pushes back ? I never thought that the movie "Idiocracy" was realistic because a global dysgenic collapse would be extremely unlikely, eventually there would be some nation (or other form of grouping) that would not fall to dysgenic ideology, if the rest of world became really much dumber in comparison then the pockets of non dysgenics will eventually rule the rest and repopulate the rest with their superior stock.

    I see nothing to change the trend in the next 50 years. I also see no evidence that high IQ populations have a desire to repopulate anywhere, unlike Africans.

    Read More
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  64. I await the day I wake up and my smartphone is a brick because I liked a Sailer tweet the night before.

    Read More
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  65. @Anon
    Shiite, black Pence looks like Obama.

    http://www.diversityinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/FaceApp.png

    Maybe we can have transracial presidency to please everyone.

    The media must use face app filters to present the president as a different race everyday.

    African American Trump is still better looking than Maxine Waters.

    Read More
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  66. BB753 says:
    @Steve Sailer
    South Asian Donald Trump looks like Al Sharpton.

    Black Pence looks like Obama!

    Read More
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  67. Jack D says:
    @AM

    The truth is that Mormons have historically faced more discrimination in the USA than Jews.
     
    There is some good reason for that. In a Christian country, Mormons push the very boundaries of what it means to be Christian, including breaking it's rules on monogamy.

    Yes, today they seem like a tame bunch, but please remember that for Utah to join the union the Mormons had to change and outlaw polygamy. They also didn't let blacks be priests until 1978 and have quite some interesting thoughts on dark skin. They thought the mark of Cain was to be dark skinned and thus keeping what few blacks who did join as semi-second class worshipers until 1978.

    Just a quick think through of what polygamy must do to a society that values individual freedom is alone enough to justify the exile to Utah. Polygamy is not a little innocent, individual choice - it radically shapes a society and pushes alpha males to oligarchies that are difficult for average males to break or participate in.

    It is not to overstate the matter that republics can only happen with monogamous societies.

    It's time to let go of the idea that discrimination happens because people do it randomly. They do not. The vast majority of the time, rightly or wrongly, people are attempting to protect their society and culture.


    My dream is that left-leaning Jews will identify with winner minorities like Mormons instead of the usual suspects.
     
    Given what I told you of the "winner" Mormons, are you so sure?

    Mormonism is barely Christianity – at the very least it is strongly heretical, more so than most Protestant sects. Pre-Reformation they would have hunted the Mormons down and burned them at the stake.

    Christianity picked up monogamy from the Romans, who believed strongly in it. Before Mormonism, there had not been any polygamous Christian sects since the earliest days of the church, if ever.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    You underestimate the weirdness of the Reformation in some places.
    , @Wilkey
    "Mormonism is barely Christianity"

    Given the substantial differences between, say, Catholicism, Anglicanism, and Baptists, I'm not sure what's supposed to qualify as genuine Christianity and why Mormons, in any operational sense (other than the long abandoned practice of polygamy), are considered to be too far off the reservation to qualify.

    Doctrinally I would say that Mormons aren't real Christians simply by virtue of all the scriptures they have added to the standard Christian canon. That's not meant to slight the faith I was raised in. To the contrary, it would slight them to say that all those added scriptures didn't mean much, for what would be the point of the gospel's "restoration" if they didn't?

    A debate between a Mormon and a Protestant over whether Mormons are genuinely Christian is one that can never have a peaceful resolution. The Protestant will say they have diverged from various settled Christian doctrines and added scriptures that no other Christian denomination accepts. Mormons will claim those scriptures are "restored" scriptures that are part of original Christianity.
    , @AM

    Before Mormonism, there had not been any polygamous Christian sects since the earliest days of the church, if ever.
     
    Read in prudential light, many of the stories in the OT are "Don't try this at home." The rather sorry state of domestic affairs in the polygamous marriages of the OT is much more reinforcement of monogamy than it is of endorsement of the state.

    How Joseph Smith and crew got to "God calls us to this" out of those passages is one of the great mysteries of the world.
    , @AM

    Pre-Reformation they would have hunted the Mormons down and burned them at the stake.
     
    Even back then, Christians were pretty slow to purge their heretics. The Cathars were around for 200 years and attempts were made first at voluntary conversions. Burning at the stake would have not been the first go to option.
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  68. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Jack D
    Mormonism is barely Christianity - at the very least it is strongly heretical, more so than most Protestant sects. Pre-Reformation they would have hunted the Mormons down and burned them at the stake.

    Christianity picked up monogamy from the Romans, who believed strongly in it. Before Mormonism, there had not been any polygamous Christian sects since the earliest days of the church, if ever.

    You underestimate the weirdness of the Reformation in some places.

    Read More
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  69. Ivy says:
    @Anon
    Shiite, black Pence looks like Obama.

    http://www.diversityinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/FaceApp.png

    Maybe we can have transracial presidency to please everyone.

    The media must use face app filters to present the president as a different race everyday.

    Good thing I have a strong stomach, looking at such pictures.

    Read More
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  70. @Mr. Anon
    OT: Stacey Evans, a Georgia state legislator and Democratic candidate for governor gets the Bernie Sanders Treatment at Netroots:

    Protestors shout down Stacey Evans at Netroots

    Just stand there and smile, Stacey. You can't fight back, because they're black. This is what it means to be a white person in the Democratic Party today.

    Fauxcahontas also spoke at Netroots, promising no return to the centrist triangulating of the Clinton Era, but rather unabashed left-wing progressivism.

    I think if she’d said “y’all” a few more times she could’ve gotten through to them.

    I did a little protesting in college (mostly against the Iraq War) before swinging center or whatever has happened to me in the last few years. If we protested an event, we would do it out front, 20+ feet from the entrance. We might be out front and center but we didn’t disrupt the crowd flow too much. Everybody entering and exiting would see us.

    It never would have occurred to us to actually enter venues and ruin events like this. It just looks so bad.

    Read More
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  71. donut says:
    @Tiny Duck
    The problem with technology is not technology, but ideology; libertarian ideology, to be precise

    If technology is viewed as a tool for the public good, then its benefits would be widely-distributed, instead of flowing towards the pockets of a very tiny minority.

    Automation, artificial intelligence, and other advances could free people up from drudgery, if for example, some type of universal income were to be implemented. Some people would then have time to engage in art, music, philosophy, writing, study, civic engagement. This would enrich our entire society, figuratively, and literally.

    Instead, under the brutish libertarian ideology, a parasitic ruling (tech) elite is accruing most of the profits from technology, while causing all kinds of social dysfunction, the dislocation of millions of people (gentrification), homelessness, poverty, and misery.

    Ordinarily I wouldn’t respond to you TD but I feel I must in this case because you made this argument that seems reasonable at first glance : “Automation, artificial intelligence, and other advances could free people up from drudgery, if for example, some type of universal income were to be implemented. Some people would then have time to engage in art, music, philosophy, writing, study, civic engagement. This would enrich our entire society, figuratively, and literally.” But my response is that w/o the drudgery and the crushing grind of a working man’s life there would be no inspiration for all the “art and etc. that you in your delusion think would spring from the common man’s liberation from work , from the soul crushing daily grind . I suspect that you have never put your hand to a day of work , manual labor , work that day by day wears your body down for the profit of others . But I have , for forty years I have labored with my back and my hands and and made my living thereby and I am proud of that . I am a man and I have made my own way like John Henry .

    So many versions of this song but this is one : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9TUaHPRsq0

    White or Black John Henry was an American hero .

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  72. @anonymous-antiskynetist
    Make no mistake: Peter "Monopoly" Thiel is as evil as Google is...just a different flavor.

    It's rumored that he has invested millions in high-tech longevity research, and even whispered about that he may have been receiving experimental immortality treatments in secret for quite some time now. He certainly intends to outlive superfluous humanity. It was with high tech parasites like him in mind that Alex Jones once indicted elites for their plans, treasonous to the human race itself, to "upload their consciousness to immortal machines and set out to explore the cosmos."

    Rumored? Whispered about?

    A Gulag search for “peter thiel longevity research” comes back with 46k results, many of which include quotes from Thiel.

    Honestly, it’s kind of hard to blame a billionaire for wanting to live forever.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde

    A Gulag search for “peter thiel longevity research” comes back with 46k results, many of which include quotes from Thiel.
    Honestly, it’s kind of hard to blame a billionaire for wanting to live forever.
     
    Periodic blood transfusions from young people are high on the list. This is the current state of the art and on Peter Theil's list. It might be theory for him or he might be getting them. A blood transfusion clinic could be set up in the DR, Thailand or other third world nation, far from prying eyes. A billionaire could jet in and jet out on his own airplane.
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  73. Curle says:
    @AM

    The truth is that Mormons have historically faced more discrimination in the USA than Jews.
     
    There is some good reason for that. In a Christian country, Mormons push the very boundaries of what it means to be Christian, including breaking it's rules on monogamy.

    Yes, today they seem like a tame bunch, but please remember that for Utah to join the union the Mormons had to change and outlaw polygamy. They also didn't let blacks be priests until 1978 and have quite some interesting thoughts on dark skin. They thought the mark of Cain was to be dark skinned and thus keeping what few blacks who did join as semi-second class worshipers until 1978.

    Just a quick think through of what polygamy must do to a society that values individual freedom is alone enough to justify the exile to Utah. Polygamy is not a little innocent, individual choice - it radically shapes a society and pushes alpha males to oligarchies that are difficult for average males to break or participate in.

    It is not to overstate the matter that republics can only happen with monogamous societies.

    It's time to let go of the idea that discrimination happens because people do it randomly. They do not. The vast majority of the time, rightly or wrongly, people are attempting to protect their society and culture.


    My dream is that left-leaning Jews will identify with winner minorities like Mormons instead of the usual suspects.
     
    Given what I told you of the "winner" Mormons, are you so sure?

    The Book of Mormon was mostly assembled by Sidney Rigdon a defrocked Campbellite minister (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbellite) who combined elements of a fantasy tale written by Samuel Spaulding (Manuscript Lost) with his own Christian heretical thoughts about religion. That’s the closest Mormonism comes to Christianity.

    See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spalding%E2%80%93Rigdon_theory_of_Book_of_Mormon_authorship

    Given a broader and thorough treatment here https://www.amazon.com/Who-Really-Wrote-Book-Mormon/dp/0758605277

    Read More
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  74. Wilkey says:
    @Jack D
    Mormonism is barely Christianity - at the very least it is strongly heretical, more so than most Protestant sects. Pre-Reformation they would have hunted the Mormons down and burned them at the stake.

    Christianity picked up monogamy from the Romans, who believed strongly in it. Before Mormonism, there had not been any polygamous Christian sects since the earliest days of the church, if ever.

    “Mormonism is barely Christianity”

    Given the substantial differences between, say, Catholicism, Anglicanism, and Baptists, I’m not sure what’s supposed to qualify as genuine Christianity and why Mormons, in any operational sense (other than the long abandoned practice of polygamy), are considered to be too far off the reservation to qualify.

    Doctrinally I would say that Mormons aren’t real Christians simply by virtue of all the scriptures they have added to the standard Christian canon. That’s not meant to slight the faith I was raised in. To the contrary, it would slight them to say that all those added scriptures didn’t mean much, for what would be the point of the gospel’s “restoration” if they didn’t?

    A debate between a Mormon and a Protestant over whether Mormons are genuinely Christian is one that can never have a peaceful resolution. The Protestant will say they have diverged from various settled Christian doctrines and added scriptures that no other Christian denomination accepts. Mormons will claim those scriptures are “restored” scriptures that are part of original Christianity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    Given the substantial differences between, say, Catholicism, Anglicanism, and Baptists, I’m not sure what’s supposed to qualify as genuine Christianity and why Mormons, in any operational sense (other than the long abandoned practice of polygamy), are considered to be too far off the reservation to qualify.
     
    I can explain it if you like, but I doubt you really want to hear it. It's boring. Catholicism and Anglicanism are not that far apart theologically, neither is any orthodox Christian. Baptists are significantly farther off the ranch, but their acceptance of the Trinity and baptism makes them more Christians without proper Priests and sacraments than anything else.

    Doctrinally I would say that Mormons aren’t real Christians simply by virtue of all the scriptures they have added to the standard Christian canon.
     
    Okay, so why did you question me again? ;) Yes, this is one of the reasons. You can't go off in a cave or the woods and write scripture. In that particular feature Mormonism and Islam share common ground and you'll find that guys like GK Chesterton tend to view them theologically in the same light. To be clear, my brains haven't fallen out here. Mormons currently pass the good neighbor test of a Christian society. It's not something I lose sleep over, other than a concern that Mormons choose to get caught up in non-scripture rather than focus on Christ.

    A debate between a Mormon and a Protestant over whether Mormons are genuinely Christian is one that can never have a peaceful resolution.
     
    Yeah, because the Catholic would tell you're both wrong. grin
    , @Jack Hanson
    The fact that Protestants, Orthodox, and Catholics all recite the Nicean Creed and Mormons don't is probably a huge start.

    The fact you missed this big flashing red sign makes me think you need to research the issue a bit more.
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  75. @AM

    The truth is that Mormons have historically faced more discrimination in the USA than Jews.
     
    There is some good reason for that. In a Christian country, Mormons push the very boundaries of what it means to be Christian, including breaking it's rules on monogamy.

    Yes, today they seem like a tame bunch, but please remember that for Utah to join the union the Mormons had to change and outlaw polygamy. They also didn't let blacks be priests until 1978 and have quite some interesting thoughts on dark skin. They thought the mark of Cain was to be dark skinned and thus keeping what few blacks who did join as semi-second class worshipers until 1978.

    Just a quick think through of what polygamy must do to a society that values individual freedom is alone enough to justify the exile to Utah. Polygamy is not a little innocent, individual choice - it radically shapes a society and pushes alpha males to oligarchies that are difficult for average males to break or participate in.

    It is not to overstate the matter that republics can only happen with monogamous societies.

    It's time to let go of the idea that discrimination happens because people do it randomly. They do not. The vast majority of the time, rightly or wrongly, people are attempting to protect their society and culture.


    My dream is that left-leaning Jews will identify with winner minorities like Mormons instead of the usual suspects.
     
    Given what I told you of the "winner" Mormons, are you so sure?

    Let’s say your next door neighbor was selling his house. Obviously, you are going to be concerned about who buys the house. Wouldn’t you be happy to find out your new neighbors are Mormon? What group has better values than them TODAY (not in the 19th century)? Mormons statistically beat just about everyone. They have very low rates of illegitimacy, alcoholism, drug abuse, crime, and so forth. They’re, on average, much healthier and are also have above-replacement fertility rates.

    I’m not endorsing their religious beliefs (which I wouldn’t pretend to understand), but the results speak for themselves.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    Wouldn’t you be happy to find out your new neighbors are Mormon?
     
    I'd be fine with it.

    But you missed my point. Americans were quite right to discriminate and push Mormons out to Utah. The discrimination actually made them the good neighbors that they are today.

    Americans also still quite right to cast a wary eye towards modern Mormonism, which expresses quite a few of it's cultish roots into today's society. It turns out that those same cultural features also help them resist several modernisms, as you mention.

    That said...I'm not sure if the Mormons aren't just a generation or two behind the rest of American Christianity. Mormons tend to lose their kids at surprising high rates and I've read articles stating that Mormon leadership is lieing about overall membership levels. Certainly liberalism has come to Mormonism as well as globalism. I don't know if they're hanging onto their membership, given how desperate they seem to want incoming Hispanic immigration.

    , @Olorin
    The point I saw AM making was a population genetics one:

    In shoving all Mormons into Utah, a unique evolutionary experiment was engendered.

    Any time you have populations in relative or complete isolation, they can become more of what they are hardwired to potentially become, and faster.

    Compare: Detroit, Baltimore, and Newark/Camden.

    The United States of America itself was a population genetics experiment, and buzzing along just dandy till European banker types decided that what we could create wasn't lucrative enough for their Old World standards and Near Eastern numbers games.
    , @StillCARealist
    There's some self-selection going on. The people who love that big, family-centered culture are going to be attracted to Mormonism. Plus, they're quite adept at getting their youth together for early match-making. The Mormon church could never be a continent-wide religion like Christianity, Catholic or Protestant.
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  76. Clyde says:

    OT
    Letter from Venezuela
    November 14, 2016 Issue
    Venezuela, a Failing State
    Once the richest country in South America, it now has the world’s highest inflation rate and is plagued by hunger and violent crime. How did this happen?
    By William Finnegan

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/14/venezuela-a-failing-state

    _______________________

    What life is like there. Fascinating treatment of what life is like under mestizo rule. Chavez was mestizo and Maduro claims it too. Spanish-European elites used to run the show. They would have frequent military coups but at least the system was capitalist and life was much better for all/ Our spoiled rotten social justice warriors have no idea and don’t want to know. They want to drive us into the same ditch.
    That moron Chavez probably ruined many oil fields due to bad extraction (pumping) practices.

    All crimes are way up such as murder and kidnappings for ransom. There are lines for food like under Soviet and East European communism. People line up for hours to get some butter and two kilos of butter. Hospitals are a total mess without effective antibiotics. People die on the operating table due to no adrenaline drugs on hand at crucial moments.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ivy
    Human nature, or Lord of the Flies, if you prefer?
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  77. Clyde says:
    @ATX Hipster
    Rumored? Whispered about?

    A Gulag search for "peter thiel longevity research" comes back with 46k results, many of which include quotes from Thiel.

    Honestly, it's kind of hard to blame a billionaire for wanting to live forever.

    A Gulag search for “peter thiel longevity research” comes back with 46k results, many of which include quotes from Thiel.
    Honestly, it’s kind of hard to blame a billionaire for wanting to live forever.

    Periodic blood transfusions from young people are high on the list. This is the current state of the art and on Peter Theil’s list. It might be theory for him or he might be getting them. A blood transfusion clinic could be set up in the DR, Thailand or other third world nation, far from prying eyes. A billionaire could jet in and jet out on his own airplane.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    Periodic blood transfusions from young people are high on the list.
     
    Does anyone else find the whole concept vampirish and vaguely disgusting?
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  78. anonguy says:
    @Steve Sailer
    He worked for Milken in the 80s and now he’s SJW. As Tom Brady says, “Figure it out.”

    Heck, Mike Milken is now SJW.

    Heck, Mike Milken is now SJW.

    That’s what gets me about SJW-ism. I have many friends now espousing views that are diametrically opposed to their core beliefs from several decades ago.

    I used to joke that diversity, green stuff, sex issues, etc, were elements of a new religion but recently decided it wasn’t a joke, it really is effectively a religion.

    The cognitive distance people like Milken have to move, to square all the circles for themselves between what they used to believe and what they now do is indistinguishable from a religious conversion. There is no way this could have been done by reasoned debate, argument, etc.

    Actually, in Milken’s case, it might just be opportunism, but for most people….

    I used to troll SJWs around me, but since deciding it was a real religion, I backed off for my own well-being. SJW-ism is unkind to its apostates, heretics, and infidels.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    I used to troll SJWs around me, but since deciding it was a real religion, I backed off for my own well-being. SJW-ism is unkind to its apostates, heretics, and infidels.
     
    This is worth pondering. Thanks.
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  79. AM says:
    @Wilkey
    "Mormonism is barely Christianity"

    Given the substantial differences between, say, Catholicism, Anglicanism, and Baptists, I'm not sure what's supposed to qualify as genuine Christianity and why Mormons, in any operational sense (other than the long abandoned practice of polygamy), are considered to be too far off the reservation to qualify.

    Doctrinally I would say that Mormons aren't real Christians simply by virtue of all the scriptures they have added to the standard Christian canon. That's not meant to slight the faith I was raised in. To the contrary, it would slight them to say that all those added scriptures didn't mean much, for what would be the point of the gospel's "restoration" if they didn't?

    A debate between a Mormon and a Protestant over whether Mormons are genuinely Christian is one that can never have a peaceful resolution. The Protestant will say they have diverged from various settled Christian doctrines and added scriptures that no other Christian denomination accepts. Mormons will claim those scriptures are "restored" scriptures that are part of original Christianity.

    Given the substantial differences between, say, Catholicism, Anglicanism, and Baptists, I’m not sure what’s supposed to qualify as genuine Christianity and why Mormons, in any operational sense (other than the long abandoned practice of polygamy), are considered to be too far off the reservation to qualify.

    I can explain it if you like, but I doubt you really want to hear it. It’s boring. Catholicism and Anglicanism are not that far apart theologically, neither is any orthodox Christian. Baptists are significantly farther off the ranch, but their acceptance of the Trinity and baptism makes them more Christians without proper Priests and sacraments than anything else.

    Doctrinally I would say that Mormons aren’t real Christians simply by virtue of all the scriptures they have added to the standard Christian canon.

    Okay, so why did you question me again? ;) Yes, this is one of the reasons. You can’t go off in a cave or the woods and write scripture. In that particular feature Mormonism and Islam share common ground and you’ll find that guys like GK Chesterton tend to view them theologically in the same light. To be clear, my brains haven’t fallen out here. Mormons currently pass the good neighbor test of a Christian society. It’s not something I lose sleep over, other than a concern that Mormons choose to get caught up in non-scripture rather than focus on Christ.

    A debate between a Mormon and a Protestant over whether Mormons are genuinely Christian is one that can never have a peaceful resolution.

    Yeah, because the Catholic would tell you’re both wrong. grin

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  80. AM says:
    @Judah Benjamin Hur
    Let's say your next door neighbor was selling his house. Obviously, you are going to be concerned about who buys the house. Wouldn't you be happy to find out your new neighbors are Mormon? What group has better values than them TODAY (not in the 19th century)? Mormons statistically beat just about everyone. They have very low rates of illegitimacy, alcoholism, drug abuse, crime, and so forth. They're, on average, much healthier and are also have above-replacement fertility rates.

    I'm not endorsing their religious beliefs (which I wouldn't pretend to understand), but the results speak for themselves.

    Wouldn’t you be happy to find out your new neighbors are Mormon?

    I’d be fine with it.

    But you missed my point. Americans were quite right to discriminate and push Mormons out to Utah. The discrimination actually made them the good neighbors that they are today.

    Americans also still quite right to cast a wary eye towards modern Mormonism, which expresses quite a few of it’s cultish roots into today’s society. It turns out that those same cultural features also help them resist several modernisms, as you mention.

    That said…I’m not sure if the Mormons aren’t just a generation or two behind the rest of American Christianity. Mormons tend to lose their kids at surprising high rates and I’ve read articles stating that Mormon leadership is lieing about overall membership levels. Certainly liberalism has come to Mormonism as well as globalism. I don’t know if they’re hanging onto their membership, given how desperate they seem to want incoming Hispanic immigration.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    Certainly liberalism has come to Mormonism as well as globalism.
     
    They looked into the abyss.
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  81. AM says:
    @Clyde

    A Gulag search for “peter thiel longevity research” comes back with 46k results, many of which include quotes from Thiel.
    Honestly, it’s kind of hard to blame a billionaire for wanting to live forever.
     
    Periodic blood transfusions from young people are high on the list. This is the current state of the art and on Peter Theil's list. It might be theory for him or he might be getting them. A blood transfusion clinic could be set up in the DR, Thailand or other third world nation, far from prying eyes. A billionaire could jet in and jet out on his own airplane.

    Periodic blood transfusions from young people are high on the list.

    Does anyone else find the whole concept vampirish and vaguely disgusting?

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Yes. The superficial optics are terrible and it makes me wonder if there are aging consequences to regular blood donation. As I understand it, the current conventional wisdom is that blood donation is a healthy thing to do as long as one is currently healthy. Another issue is keeping the blood supply safe. It was bad to be a hemophiliac in the early days of the AIDS crisis.

    The hope would be that the blood components that help against aging can be identified and created another way (e.g. biotech creation of proteins) similarly to insulin.
    , @Clyde
    Of course it rings-reeks of vampirism.
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  82. AM says:
    @Jack D
    Mormonism is barely Christianity - at the very least it is strongly heretical, more so than most Protestant sects. Pre-Reformation they would have hunted the Mormons down and burned them at the stake.

    Christianity picked up monogamy from the Romans, who believed strongly in it. Before Mormonism, there had not been any polygamous Christian sects since the earliest days of the church, if ever.

    Before Mormonism, there had not been any polygamous Christian sects since the earliest days of the church, if ever.

    Read in prudential light, many of the stories in the OT are “Don’t try this at home.” The rather sorry state of domestic affairs in the polygamous marriages of the OT is much more reinforcement of monogamy than it is of endorsement of the state.

    How Joseph Smith and crew got to “God calls us to this” out of those passages is one of the great mysteries of the world.

    Read More
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  83. AM says:
    @Jack D
    Mormonism is barely Christianity - at the very least it is strongly heretical, more so than most Protestant sects. Pre-Reformation they would have hunted the Mormons down and burned them at the stake.

    Christianity picked up monogamy from the Romans, who believed strongly in it. Before Mormonism, there had not been any polygamous Christian sects since the earliest days of the church, if ever.

    Pre-Reformation they would have hunted the Mormons down and burned them at the stake.

    Even back then, Christians were pretty slow to purge their heretics. The Cathars were around for 200 years and attempts were made first at voluntary conversions. Burning at the stake would have not been the first go to option.

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  84. @AM

    Wouldn’t you be happy to find out your new neighbors are Mormon?
     
    I'd be fine with it.

    But you missed my point. Americans were quite right to discriminate and push Mormons out to Utah. The discrimination actually made them the good neighbors that they are today.

    Americans also still quite right to cast a wary eye towards modern Mormonism, which expresses quite a few of it's cultish roots into today's society. It turns out that those same cultural features also help them resist several modernisms, as you mention.

    That said...I'm not sure if the Mormons aren't just a generation or two behind the rest of American Christianity. Mormons tend to lose their kids at surprising high rates and I've read articles stating that Mormon leadership is lieing about overall membership levels. Certainly liberalism has come to Mormonism as well as globalism. I don't know if they're hanging onto their membership, given how desperate they seem to want incoming Hispanic immigration.

    Certainly liberalism has come to Mormonism as well as globalism.

    They looked into the abyss.

    Read More
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  85. res says:
    @anonguy

    Heck, Mike Milken is now SJW.
     
    That's what gets me about SJW-ism. I have many friends now espousing views that are diametrically opposed to their core beliefs from several decades ago.

    I used to joke that diversity, green stuff, sex issues, etc, were elements of a new religion but recently decided it wasn't a joke, it really is effectively a religion.

    The cognitive distance people like Milken have to move, to square all the circles for themselves between what they used to believe and what they now do is indistinguishable from a religious conversion. There is no way this could have been done by reasoned debate, argument, etc.

    Actually, in Milken's case, it might just be opportunism, but for most people....

    I used to troll SJWs around me, but since deciding it was a real religion, I backed off for my own well-being. SJW-ism is unkind to its apostates, heretics, and infidels.

    I used to troll SJWs around me, but since deciding it was a real religion, I backed off for my own well-being. SJW-ism is unkind to its apostates, heretics, and infidels.

    This is worth pondering. Thanks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonguy
    I used to ironically wear brightly colored polo shirts in PNW milieu, where basically everyone dresses in gray t-shirts.

    You definitely tickle the matrix doing this, people notice you.

    It was fun for a while, until I figured, well, having these people notice you in any way that reminds them of Biff from the country club was not going to be an overall positive for me, especially with the religious fervor that has been heating up the past couple of years.

    Strauss-Howe and Generations is looking quite prescient. They predicted a religious revival amidst institutional crises right around now IIRC. And the SJW stuff is an emerging religion. Look at the response to Damore, he's just being flicked off like an irritating tick because more or less everyone wants to have this sort of censorship in place except for a few revanchist oddballs.

    That doesn't mean he won't win a case in court, but he has already lost in the court of respectable public opinion.

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  86. res says:
    @AM

    Periodic blood transfusions from young people are high on the list.
     
    Does anyone else find the whole concept vampirish and vaguely disgusting?

    Yes. The superficial optics are terrible and it makes me wonder if there are aging consequences to regular blood donation. As I understand it, the current conventional wisdom is that blood donation is a healthy thing to do as long as one is currently healthy. Another issue is keeping the blood supply safe. It was bad to be a hemophiliac in the early days of the AIDS crisis.

    The hope would be that the blood components that help against aging can be identified and created another way (e.g. biotech creation of proteins) similarly to insulin.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ATX Hipster

    it makes me wonder if there are aging consequences to regular blood donation.
     
    There are - regular blood donation is anti-aging. P.D. Mangan has written extensively about this. Here's Mangan on the young blood study:

    http://roguehealthandfitness.com/new-young-blood-study-implicates-iron-in-aging/
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  87. @Wilkey
    "Mormonism is barely Christianity"

    Given the substantial differences between, say, Catholicism, Anglicanism, and Baptists, I'm not sure what's supposed to qualify as genuine Christianity and why Mormons, in any operational sense (other than the long abandoned practice of polygamy), are considered to be too far off the reservation to qualify.

    Doctrinally I would say that Mormons aren't real Christians simply by virtue of all the scriptures they have added to the standard Christian canon. That's not meant to slight the faith I was raised in. To the contrary, it would slight them to say that all those added scriptures didn't mean much, for what would be the point of the gospel's "restoration" if they didn't?

    A debate between a Mormon and a Protestant over whether Mormons are genuinely Christian is one that can never have a peaceful resolution. The Protestant will say they have diverged from various settled Christian doctrines and added scriptures that no other Christian denomination accepts. Mormons will claim those scriptures are "restored" scriptures that are part of original Christianity.

    The fact that Protestants, Orthodox, and Catholics all recite the Nicean Creed and Mormons don’t is probably a huge start.

    The fact you missed this big flashing red sign makes me think you need to research the issue a bit more.

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  88. anonguy says:
    @res

    I used to troll SJWs around me, but since deciding it was a real religion, I backed off for my own well-being. SJW-ism is unkind to its apostates, heretics, and infidels.
     
    This is worth pondering. Thanks.

    I used to ironically wear brightly colored polo shirts in PNW milieu, where basically everyone dresses in gray t-shirts.

    You definitely tickle the matrix doing this, people notice you.

    It was fun for a while, until I figured, well, having these people notice you in any way that reminds them of Biff from the country club was not going to be an overall positive for me, especially with the religious fervor that has been heating up the past couple of years.

    Strauss-Howe and Generations is looking quite prescient. They predicted a religious revival amidst institutional crises right around now IIRC. And the SJW stuff is an emerging religion. Look at the response to Damore, he’s just being flicked off like an irritating tick because more or less everyone wants to have this sort of censorship in place except for a few revanchist oddballs.

    That doesn’t mean he won’t win a case in court, but he has already lost in the court of respectable public opinion.

    Read More
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  89. Olorin says:
    @Judah Benjamin Hur
    Let's say your next door neighbor was selling his house. Obviously, you are going to be concerned about who buys the house. Wouldn't you be happy to find out your new neighbors are Mormon? What group has better values than them TODAY (not in the 19th century)? Mormons statistically beat just about everyone. They have very low rates of illegitimacy, alcoholism, drug abuse, crime, and so forth. They're, on average, much healthier and are also have above-replacement fertility rates.

    I'm not endorsing their religious beliefs (which I wouldn't pretend to understand), but the results speak for themselves.

    The point I saw AM making was a population genetics one:

    In shoving all Mormons into Utah, a unique evolutionary experiment was engendered.

    Any time you have populations in relative or complete isolation, they can become more of what they are hardwired to potentially become, and faster.

    Compare: Detroit, Baltimore, and Newark/Camden.

    The United States of America itself was a population genetics experiment, and buzzing along just dandy till European banker types decided that what we could create wasn’t lucrative enough for their Old World standards and Near Eastern numbers games.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    In shoving all Mormons into Utah, a unique evolutionary experiment was engendered.
     
    That wasn't quite my point, but it is another interesting angle on it.

    My points were that a) when societies discriminate they do so out of self preservation motivations that must be judged on the particular circumstances and b)in this case, discrimination, exile, and conditional re-admittance to greater society improved the society to which it happened.

    His case about Mormonism and Judaism simply assumed that Americans discriminated at random and it was probably without basis. (At least how I read it.)

    That's the default PC view of discrimination - that there's nothing but malice coming from nowhere that generates it. Thus always bad.

    But it's simply not the case. Almost always, even in the most extreme cases that cross the line, you'll find some actual event or issue that generated an understandable dislike of the other party. People have surprisingly logical trains of thought, if you can understand as much as possible about the circumstances that generated them.

    Discrimination=always bad makes it easy to not think, but it also makes it harder to attempt to understand almost any situation as an outsider.
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  90. Corvinus says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson
    Google qualifies as a monopoly and needs to be broken up using antitrust laws. It is worse than Standard Oil ever was.

    “Google qualifies as a monopoly and needs to be broken up using antitrust laws. It is worse than Standard Oil ever was.”

    Then make the argument. I am open minded on this topic. We’re listening…

    “Google’s executives and employees employed a variety of strategies to elect Hillary Clinton and defeat Donald Trump.”

    Imagine a business trying to get one political candidate elected over another political candidate. Because favorable policies. I didn’t realize American representative democracy worked in this manner. /sarcasm

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  91. @Jack D
    We really need a better leadership class in this country. Have any of these folks studied logic and logical fallacies? Do they know that they are engaging in fallacies and think that we are too dumb to know?

    As far as I can tell, Taplin's logic is thus:

    1. Peter Thiel is bad.

    2. Peter Thiel is part of Silicon Valley

    3. Google is also part of Silicon Valley

    4. Therefore, Google is also bad.

    A smart 3rd grader could spot the fallacy and yet this is appearing in the NY Times. Sad.

    Fallacy of the undistributed middle, is my guess.

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  92. MarkinLA says:
    @Tiny Duck
    The problem with technology is not technology, but ideology; libertarian ideology, to be precise

    If technology is viewed as a tool for the public good, then its benefits would be widely-distributed, instead of flowing towards the pockets of a very tiny minority.

    Automation, artificial intelligence, and other advances could free people up from drudgery, if for example, some type of universal income were to be implemented. Some people would then have time to engage in art, music, philosophy, writing, study, civic engagement. This would enrich our entire society, figuratively, and literally.

    Instead, under the brutish libertarian ideology, a parasitic ruling (tech) elite is accruing most of the profits from technology, while causing all kinds of social dysfunction, the dislocation of millions of people (gentrification), homelessness, poverty, and misery.

    Some people would then have time to engage in art, music, philosophy, writing, study, civic engagement.

    As if we need to subsidize even more of the trash put out that calls itself art, music, philosophy, writing, study, and civil engagement.

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  93. Clyde says:
    @AM

    Periodic blood transfusions from young people are high on the list.
     
    Does anyone else find the whole concept vampirish and vaguely disgusting?

    Of course it rings-reeks of vampirism.

    Read More
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  94. @Judah Benjamin Hur
    Let's say your next door neighbor was selling his house. Obviously, you are going to be concerned about who buys the house. Wouldn't you be happy to find out your new neighbors are Mormon? What group has better values than them TODAY (not in the 19th century)? Mormons statistically beat just about everyone. They have very low rates of illegitimacy, alcoholism, drug abuse, crime, and so forth. They're, on average, much healthier and are also have above-replacement fertility rates.

    I'm not endorsing their religious beliefs (which I wouldn't pretend to understand), but the results speak for themselves.

    There’s some self-selection going on. The people who love that big, family-centered culture are going to be attracted to Mormonism. Plus, they’re quite adept at getting their youth together for early match-making. The Mormon church could never be a continent-wide religion like Christianity, Catholic or Protestant.

    Read More
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  95. @res
    Yes. The superficial optics are terrible and it makes me wonder if there are aging consequences to regular blood donation. As I understand it, the current conventional wisdom is that blood donation is a healthy thing to do as long as one is currently healthy. Another issue is keeping the blood supply safe. It was bad to be a hemophiliac in the early days of the AIDS crisis.

    The hope would be that the blood components that help against aging can be identified and created another way (e.g. biotech creation of proteins) similarly to insulin.

    it makes me wonder if there are aging consequences to regular blood donation.

    There are – regular blood donation is anti-aging. P.D. Mangan has written extensively about this. Here’s Mangan on the young blood study:

    http://roguehealthandfitness.com/new-young-blood-study-implicates-iron-in-aging/

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Thanks for the link, but I am not seeing support for "regular blood donation is anti-aging" there. I understand the idea of blood donation lowering ferritin levels. That is probably good on average for men, but more of a mixed bag for women (those darned sex differences again). But there is also the issue of increased system load to make up for the lost blood.

    The article you link emphasizes the idea "The fact that a single exposure to old blood causes harm implicates some factor in old blood" which is interesting. Also this point: "A new study finds that benefit to the older mouse are much smaller than harm to the younger"!

    If that thinking is true what is really needed is something to remove the problem substances from old blood.

    Again, thanks for the interesting article. If you can point me to the part where they talk about something other than iron overload and/or look at the overall effect of donating blood (here or elsewhere) I am interested.
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  96. Ivy says:
    @Clyde
    OT
    Letter from Venezuela
    November 14, 2016 Issue
    Venezuela, a Failing State
    Once the richest country in South America, it now has the world’s highest inflation rate and is plagued by hunger and violent crime. How did this happen?
    By William Finnegan
    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/14/venezuela-a-failing-state
    _______________________

    What life is like there. Fascinating treatment of what life is like under mestizo rule. Chavez was mestizo and Maduro claims it too. Spanish-European elites used to run the show. They would have frequent military coups but at least the system was capitalist and life was much better for all/ Our spoiled rotten social justice warriors have no idea and don't want to know. They want to drive us into the same ditch.
    That moron Chavez probably ruined many oil fields due to bad extraction (pumping) practices.

    All crimes are way up such as murder and kidnappings for ransom. There are lines for food like under Soviet and East European communism. People line up for hours to get some butter and two kilos of butter. Hospitals are a total mess without effective antibiotics. People die on the operating table due to no adrenaline drugs on hand at crucial moments.

    Human nature, or Lord of the Flies, if you prefer?

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  97. res says:
    @ATX Hipster

    it makes me wonder if there are aging consequences to regular blood donation.
     
    There are - regular blood donation is anti-aging. P.D. Mangan has written extensively about this. Here's Mangan on the young blood study:

    http://roguehealthandfitness.com/new-young-blood-study-implicates-iron-in-aging/

    Thanks for the link, but I am not seeing support for “regular blood donation is anti-aging” there. I understand the idea of blood donation lowering ferritin levels. That is probably good on average for men, but more of a mixed bag for women (those darned sex differences again). But there is also the issue of increased system load to make up for the lost blood.

    The article you link emphasizes the idea “The fact that a single exposure to old blood causes harm implicates some factor in old blood” which is interesting. Also this point: “A new study finds that benefit to the older mouse are much smaller than harm to the younger”!

    If that thinking is true what is really needed is something to remove the problem substances from old blood.

    Again, thanks for the interesting article. If you can point me to the part where they talk about something other than iron overload and/or look at the overall effect of donating blood (here or elsewhere) I am interested.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ATX Hipster
    Here are a couple that deal with regular blood donation:

    http://roguehealthandfitness.com/health-benefits-blood-donation-immediate/

    http://roguehealthandfitness.com/blood-donations-blood-transfusions-iron/

    And one on the relationship between iron and aging: http://roguehealthandfitness.com/iron-the-primary-driver-of-aging/

    His books go into more detail.

    probably good on average for men, but more of a mixed bag for women
     
    IIRC the recommendation for women is to avoid deliberately lowering ferritin until menopause, since menstruation is taking care of excess ferritin up until that point.
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  98. AM says:
    @Olorin
    The point I saw AM making was a population genetics one:

    In shoving all Mormons into Utah, a unique evolutionary experiment was engendered.

    Any time you have populations in relative or complete isolation, they can become more of what they are hardwired to potentially become, and faster.

    Compare: Detroit, Baltimore, and Newark/Camden.

    The United States of America itself was a population genetics experiment, and buzzing along just dandy till European banker types decided that what we could create wasn't lucrative enough for their Old World standards and Near Eastern numbers games.

    In shoving all Mormons into Utah, a unique evolutionary experiment was engendered.

    That wasn’t quite my point, but it is another interesting angle on it.

    My points were that a) when societies discriminate they do so out of self preservation motivations that must be judged on the particular circumstances and b)in this case, discrimination, exile, and conditional re-admittance to greater society improved the society to which it happened.

    His case about Mormonism and Judaism simply assumed that Americans discriminated at random and it was probably without basis. (At least how I read it.)

    That’s the default PC view of discrimination – that there’s nothing but malice coming from nowhere that generates it. Thus always bad.

    But it’s simply not the case. Almost always, even in the most extreme cases that cross the line, you’ll find some actual event or issue that generated an understandable dislike of the other party. People have surprisingly logical trains of thought, if you can understand as much as possible about the circumstances that generated them.

    Discrimination=always bad makes it easy to not think, but it also makes it harder to attempt to understand almost any situation as an outsider.

    Read More
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  99. @res
    Thanks for the link, but I am not seeing support for "regular blood donation is anti-aging" there. I understand the idea of blood donation lowering ferritin levels. That is probably good on average for men, but more of a mixed bag for women (those darned sex differences again). But there is also the issue of increased system load to make up for the lost blood.

    The article you link emphasizes the idea "The fact that a single exposure to old blood causes harm implicates some factor in old blood" which is interesting. Also this point: "A new study finds that benefit to the older mouse are much smaller than harm to the younger"!

    If that thinking is true what is really needed is something to remove the problem substances from old blood.

    Again, thanks for the interesting article. If you can point me to the part where they talk about something other than iron overload and/or look at the overall effect of donating blood (here or elsewhere) I am interested.

    Here are a couple that deal with regular blood donation:

    http://roguehealthandfitness.com/health-benefits-blood-donation-immediate/

    http://roguehealthandfitness.com/blood-donations-blood-transfusions-iron/

    And one on the relationship between iron and aging: http://roguehealthandfitness.com/iron-the-primary-driver-of-aging/

    His books go into more detail.

    probably good on average for men, but more of a mixed bag for women

    IIRC the recommendation for women is to avoid deliberately lowering ferritin until menopause, since menstruation is taking care of excess ferritin up until that point.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Thanks. Most of that seems to be about excess iron. But the first link also proposed hormesis as a mechanism.
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  100. res says:
    @ATX Hipster
    Here are a couple that deal with regular blood donation:

    http://roguehealthandfitness.com/health-benefits-blood-donation-immediate/

    http://roguehealthandfitness.com/blood-donations-blood-transfusions-iron/

    And one on the relationship between iron and aging: http://roguehealthandfitness.com/iron-the-primary-driver-of-aging/

    His books go into more detail.

    probably good on average for men, but more of a mixed bag for women
     
    IIRC the recommendation for women is to avoid deliberately lowering ferritin until menopause, since menstruation is taking care of excess ferritin up until that point.

    Thanks. Most of that seems to be about excess iron. But the first link also proposed hormesis as a mechanism.

    Read More
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  101. Nico says:
    @Olorin
    Just had this discussion with the in-laws this morning...and they are most certainly not left-liberal.

    The Ed Biz managed to convince many people of varied political and social views that education is a magic black box where you put carbon units in one end and fully functional whatevers come out the other.

    I would much prefer competence, innovation, and enhanced civilization in tech to "gender diversity." But only a very small slice of humans can produce that.

    Regrettably, left-liberal truisms have si poisoned the general imagination that truly immune and pure specimens are a rarity, including among decent folks.

    As far as education is concerned, though, it is important not to fall (as my own previous post did) into the left-liberal trap of conflating “education” with “schooling.” I’m a believer in negative reinforcements and observation has taught me that hitting pocketbooks is far more educational than gabbing. That’s why I am a huge advocate of charging surfaites by pound * mile. I guarantee carbon emissions AND obesity will drop dramatically within a decade. Take that, edumaciators.

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    That’s why I am a huge advocate of charging surfaites by pound * mile
     
    Should be "charging AIRFARES by pound * mile."

    Is the edit button permanently offline??
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  102. Nico says:
    @Nico
    Regrettably, left-liberal truisms have si poisoned the general imagination that truly immune and pure specimens are a rarity, including among decent folks.

    As far as education is concerned, though, it is important not to fall (as my own previous post did) into the left-liberal trap of conflating "education" with "schooling." I'm a believer in negative reinforcements and observation has taught me that hitting pocketbooks is far more educational than gabbing. That's why I am a huge advocate of charging surfaites by pound * mile. I guarantee carbon emissions AND obesity will drop dramatically within a decade. Take that, edumaciators.

    That’s why I am a huge advocate of charging surfaites by pound * mile

    Should be “charging AIRFARES by pound * mile.”

    Is the edit button permanently offline??

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments

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