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NYT Demotes George Zimmerman from "White Hispanic" Back Down to "White" Again
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From the New York Times:

“a white Florida man”

Reaction to Ferguson Decision Shows Racial Divide Remains Over Views of Justice
By MICHAEL WINES NOV. 25, 2014

… For a person of color, she said, it is difficult not to view the Ferguson shooting as part of a continuum: the 2012 shooting of Trayvon Martin, an African-American man, by a white Florida man who was later acquitted of murder; the 2009 fatal shooting of an Oakland black man by a white transit officer who was found guilty of manslaughter instead of murder.

History isn’t written by the winners, it’s written by the writers of history.

 
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  1. Jefferson says:

    George Zimmerman is about as “White” as The Salamanca Twins on “Breaking Bad”.

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  2. Jim Sweeney says: • Website

    If Mr. Wines declares Zimmerman “white” even though his mother was Peruvian, does that make Obama white because his mother was white?

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    • Replies: @Joe Walker
    Obama would only be considered white by the NYT if he killed someone darker than himself. For example, if Zimmerman had been killed by a white person, he would have been considered a "person of color".
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  3. […] STEVE SAILER: NYT Demotes George Zimmerman from “White Hispanic” Back Down to “White”. […]

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  5. EriK says:

    Mission accomplished.

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  6. iSteveFan says:

    Whether this is a deliberate touch, or just an honest lack of understanding, it still points to the fact that most people in this nation, especially those on the Left, have no real understanding of race or ethnicity despite all their posturing. You’d think the USA would be the most sophisticated place on Earth in regards to matters of race and ethnicity given all the energy devoted to this topic. But because of the filter that all discussions must go through to ensure they reinforce the narrative, relatively little real understanding seems to have been imparted.

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  7. whorefinder says: • Website

    I truly believe that this will happen one day: a black man will be shot by someone, and the Democrats will pump up the story as a white-on-black crime until it becomes national. Then, shockingly, the perpetrator will be proven to be a black man with light skin—a passer or an Al Sharpton-type who straightens his hair.

    And the NY Times, right on cue, will call him a “white African-American.” And still push the story as a white-on-black crime.

    Honestly, I’ve heard arguments from criminal defense with more intellectual integrity.

    On a related note, Steve, aren’t you going to comment on the NY Times doxxing the police officer from Ferguson by alerting people to his home address? Thus setting himself and his pregnant wife up to be murdered? Many anti-left websites *cough cough mine too* are counter-doxxing them.

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  8. Priss Factor [AKA "terrapin gape"] says:

    giant

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  9. Miller says:

    This articles explains why Zimmerman is white:

    articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-03-25/news/bal-a-whiter-shade-of-privilege-20120323_1_gregory-howard-williams-africans-whiter-shade

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    • Replies: @thanatos
    That article doesn't explain anything,it merely makes unsupported statements about race being a social construct and then cites bs that is irrelevant from a scientific standpoint.

    It says race doesn't exist except for as a label, and yet, somehow all the bad things that happen get dumped on "Whites". Not on "Blacks". Not on "Asians". On "Whites". Why is that? For one thing,it's because the people who say that race cannot be scientifically verified are often from a race that never even came up with an original alphabet or invented the wheel. They couldn't scientifically verify that the sky was blue.

    For another thing, it's because these people could NEVER be mistaken for "White",no matter how much wealth they had or prestige they had.

    What they do,rhetorically, is very much like making a movie using a miniature model set. They use a narrow focus and play with perspective so you THINK you're looking at a giant monster, when really it's a very small toy. Once you pull back and get a wider shot, you see the little puppeteers under the table and off to the side working these little tiny models. Take this,for instance:"Well into the 20th century, America recognized dozens of "races." In that America, people we now regard as white -- the Irishman, Conan O'Brien; the Armenian, Andre Agassi; the Jew, Jerry Seinfeld -- could not have taken for granted that they would be seen that way. People like this had to become white, had to earn whiteness, a feat African-Americans have found impossible to duplicate, no matter how many harsh chemicals they use on their hair and skin."

    This paragraph actually demolishes his argument that "whiteness is a social construct",though he doesn't realize it because he is an idiot. Read it again. No matter how many chemicals negroes use on their hair and skin, they were never able to be considered White. This is because ,RACIALLY,they are not White. They have a different average skull shape, different average IQ,different average brain volume, they can't even pronounce a wide variety of European-derived words because of their lips usually. Words like "ask",for example.

    His claim that America recognized Irish,Polish,Italian, etc as different "races" is historically ignorant and spurious and lazy.They were and are different ethnicities within the inherently diverse White race. Because Anglo-Saxons wanted to be the face of our race, they practiced and still do practice to some degree an amount of prejudice towards Alpine Whites.Their claim that Irish were "not White" was a hyperbolic one. They were stating a belief that Irish were more akin to gypsies,negroes,etc than they were.This was mostly based on the fact that Irish lived closer to the land and did a lot more manual labor than Anglo-Saxons. But the fact that ethnic prejudice against Irish promulgated by Anglo-Saxons once existed doesn't make Irish any less White any more than the belief of Nordic Whites that THEY are the true archetype of Whiteness makes Anglo-Saxons any less White comparitively.

    "White, then, is not simply color, but privilege -- not necessarily in the sense of wealth, but rather in the sense of having one's personhood and individuality respected, a privilege so basic I doubt it registers with many whites as privilege at all. We're talking about the privilege of being seen, of having your worth presumed, of receiving the benefit of the doubt and some human compassion, of being treated as if you matter."

    Yeah, and this benefit accrues from respecting others' property rights and individual personhood. When you shoot people to prove your gangsta street creds and torch their business because you're upset about a bunch or ridiculous nonsense,guess what,YOU FORFEIT THAT RESPECT. ...
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  10. attilathehen [AKA "Rose"] says:

    George Zimmerman looks like an Asian Jew. He looks like Marcus Epstein – a Korean Jew who wrote for VDare several years ago. Zimmerman is a German name, many times a Jewish-German name. I speak German (I am not Jewish) and when I hear certain German names I ask the person if they are Jewish or not. I read that Zimmerman’s father is not Jewish, but I’m still not sure of that. I don’t want to sound like those people who see a Jew behind many problems, but in this case, the Jews did have something to do with classifying George Zimmerman not just as white, but giving the impression he is a white Gentile. If any hint of Jewishness came out from Zimmerman, the Jews would have had problems with blacks. An odd idea since Jews marry blacks at high rates. The Jews in the media were the ones who constantly emphasized his whiteness. Then when it came out that he had a black grandfather, I was surprised that no one would mention this, especially white, conservative, Christians. Even though he doesn’t look black, once the black grandfather had been discovered, George Zimmerman is now a black-Asian-Jew. The NYT is run by Jews. They need to keep perpetuating the white Zimmerman myth.

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  11. I was going to suggest people contact him, but it looks like the only account for him I could find got suspended: twitter.com/nyteconomix

    A link to that is on the NYT site, so I assume it’s accurate. Maybe Slim needs to buy Twitter.

    In any case, the only reason the NYT is able to get away with things like this and the only reason all the other bad things work is because people don’t do smart things to stop them. I’m not talking about dumb, Twitchy-style things, but smart, big tent, pro-American campaigns designed to discredit those like Wines to his audience. If anyone really cares, then actually do something.

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  12. Tony says:

    That’s the new one drop rule now. One drop of white blood makes you white if you commit a crime against a person darker than you.

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  13. JT says:

    So the writers know what they are doing. They do it now because they can. I wonder how the writer would feel if he were slandered/libelled by deliberate fabrications? I hope someone is writing down these guys names for historical purposes. Slimeball!

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  14. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Steve, any thoughts on 62 year old Mickey Rourke knocking out a 29 year old black boxer in a boxing match in Moscow?

    “Mickey Rourke’s king of the ring again: Actor, 62, emerges victorious and beats boxing opponent half his age in minutes ”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2853452/Mickey-Rourke-s-king-ring-Actor-62-emerges-victorious-beats-boxing-opponent-half-age-minutes-takes-jabs-Twitter.html

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    • Replies: @FWIW
    Not that it matters much, but Mickey Rourke lies about his age and is 65.
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  15. The commissar vanishes.

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  16. NYT writers are not as good with words as they used to be. “Continuum” in this context doesn’t mean a sequence of similar events; it means a sequence of events where insignificant differences between events 1 and 2, 2 and 3, and so on, eventually add up to a significant difference. One could base a good SAT-V question on this confusion.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    NYT writers are not as good with words as ...
     
    ...those across town at the New Yorker.

    “Continuum” in this context...
     
    ...would be "continuüm" over there.
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  17. BubbaJoe says:

    playing devil’s advocate here: the journalist was reporting the opinion of the Nigerian (native South Carolinian?) interviewee. It’s a shite argument, but the one I imagine the NYT would give if questioned on the matter.

    Further, this makes sense from a leftist perspective (bear with me). The concept of ‘whiteness’ is fluid, able to absorb peoples once seen as not white. The best way to tell if a group once seen as not white has become white is if it approves of or engages in behavior contra African-Americans. This makes sense if you believe the group who invented ‘whiteness’- WASPs- is uniquely evil, a sort of cancerous borg. So, behavior defines whiteness. Bad behavior (as determined by ?)= white. Good behavior (again ?)= not white. The Irish weren’t white until they burned down a Black Orphanage during the Draft Riots. Rather than being an example of reprehensible Irish behavior- behavior based on their own self-interest- it was their way of trying to emulate/be accepted by WASPs. Same with Zimmerman. Facts aside, his killing of Martin shows he sees himself as white. If he didn’t see himself as such, he wouldn’t have done it.

    It’s despicable, probably the ugliest, dumbest idea acceptable today.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Good analysis.
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  18. bomag [AKA "doombuggy"] says:

    to view the Ferguson shooting as part of a continuum

    So NOW they pull out the pattern recognition. Nice. Maybe someday they will apply it to all the other things happening around them.

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  19. Off-topic, Ta-Nehisi Coates in the Atlantic: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/11/barack-obama-ferguson-and-the-evidence-of-things-unsaid/383212/

    “Taken together, property damage and looting have been the most effective tools of social progress for white people in America. They describe everything from enslavement to Jim Crow laws to lynching to red-lining.”

    That’s right, white America would still be living in mud huts if not for everything they stole from black civilization. I think this guy’s personal project is just to troll slightly harder with each new article until people start to notice.

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  20. Someone should concoct a hate crime against Zimmerman. (Nothing violent, just paint his garage door.) Then he’d be Hispanic again. At least to the FBI.

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  21. anon says: • Disclaimer

    Anyone who is smart enough to work at the NY Times must be aware that whites are victimized by blacks at a MUCH higher rate than the reverse…The statistics are very clear about this.

    Why can’t they see *this* long term ‘continuum’…The blind spot these people have is astounding …either that, or they are purposely trying to obscure reality for their readers?

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    • Replies: @David In TN
    Does the NY Times note the "continuum" represented by the murders of Morgan Harrington and Hannah Graham resulting in the arrest of that other Gentle Giant Jesse Mathew?
    , @Forbes
    Smart enough to know which facts to ignore and which facts to cherry pick.
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  22. Luke Lea says:

    OT, but how about protection of the rights of people with Asperger’s syndrome?

    World-famous biologist James Watson said he is selling the Nobel Prize medal he won in 1962 for discovering the structure of DNA because he has been ostracised and needs the money

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/11261872/James-Watson-selling-Nobel-prize-because-no-one-wants-to-admit-I-exist.html

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    • Replies: @e
    The saddest thing I've read lately, not because of the medal but because those who know he's right remain silent.
    , @Art Deco
    Wilson says he would like the money to buy a piece of artwork. He says he has 'no income' apart from his 'academic income'. After more than five decades in academe, the man indubitably has an agreeable TIAA-CREF pension as well as his Social Security and Medicare and any private assets he's been able to accumulate (from corporate directorships, &c.).
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  23. Luke Lea says:

    Regarding that NYT piece, look on the bright side: apparently 38% of African Americans think officer Wilson was not at fault. Not to mention the six African-American witnesses who supported his story.

    The really amazing thing here is how little disagreement there is among the commentariat (less than 2% ?) — a sure sign that we are dealing here with a new kind of racial prejudice supported by peer pressure, which is the same way the old kind was supported in the old segregationist South. Back then if you didn’t share the general view, or at least pay lip-service to it, you were ostracized. Look at poor James Watson.

    It would make a good Broadway Play, preferably a comedy.

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  24. You REALLY have to hate White people to (1) claim that all Whites are collectively guilty for what any one White does, (2) deliberately LIE that Zimmerman was guilty of murder, and (3) deliberately LIE that Zimmerman is White. …

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  25. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    About that NYT piece, look on the bright side: 38 percent of African Americans supported officer Wilson!

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    That really puts GOP outreach efforts in context, doesn't it? W. appointed the first two black Secretaries of State, and courted black voters with easy mortgages, etc. And he got about a quarter of the black support Darren Wilson has.
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  26. Hereward says:
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    • Replies: @Steve Austen
    President Obama says only Native Americans have the right to object to immigration.

    Is Liz Warren up to the burden placed on her?
    , @Cloudbuster
    I laugh when I read a liberal say something like that. Do they really want to go down that path? Because if you look honestly at what unrestricted immigration did to Native Americans, you can't come to any other conclusion: unrestricted immigration was *terrible* for Native Americans. We have, therefore, every reason to think it will be terrible for the current native population.
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  27. Zeno says: • Website

    Sometimes it’s hard to know wether American media is genius or retarded.

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  28. “History isn’t written by the winners, it’s written by the writers of history.”

    Define the game.

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  29. Well, we can all look forward to the retraction when Zimmerman contacts them to clarify he “identifies” as a mixed-Latino person of color.

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  30. That’s nothing. Wait until they start counting all Hispanics as white so as to assuage white concerns about being in a minority.

    They’ll have to think of something after their Ferguson debacle.

    (I’m only sorry Ferguson decision wasn’t released before the midterms. The Republicans would have 60+ senators).

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    • Replies: @Ozymandias
    "Wait until they start counting all Hispanics as white so as to assuage white concerns about being in a minority."

    That's already happening. The small town where I live is about one third Latino. Even the mayor is Latino. Yet, according to the census information available on the internet, it's 98%
    white.
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  31. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    George Zimmerman self-identifies as Hispanic.

    http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Registration.pdf

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    • Replies: @David R. Merridale
    Zimmermann's self-identification Hispanic is an act of cultural appropriation by a privileged white and must be rejected. If he self-identified as a Latina, we would not only accept her choice but champion it, because trans people are an oppressed minority.
    , @Richard A.
    It looks like George Zimmerman self-identifies as a Democrat too.
    , @dumpstersquirrel
    "George Zimmerman self-identifies as Hispanic."

    I self-identify as African-American whenever any government entity demands this information. No one has yet to question me about this, but I'll be ready if they make that mistake. See, evolution and Science has proven that homo sapiens originated in Africa; therefore, everyone is African-whateverican. If you want to keep the Section 8 Eye of Sauron from Noticing your whitey white community, I recommend you do the same.
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  32. Upgraded to “White-Privilege.”

    If you look closely you can see his invisible knapsack.

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  33. “Anyone who is smart enough to work at the NY Times must be aware that whites are victimized by blacks at a MUCH higher rate than the reverse…The statistics are very clear about this.

    Why can’t they see *this* long term ‘continuum’…The blind spot these people have is astounding …either that, or they are purposely trying to obscure reality for their readers?”

    Absent sufficient countervailing force, rationalization trumps reason. Always has. Wines gets paid, and published, to rationalize. If he chose otherwise, there’d be another byline writing the same thing. He cannot afford, literally, to see it.

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  34. Drake says:

    I think we all know there is a double standard regarding “white”: that if Zimmerman had won a Noble prize he would be called Hispanic, but if he shoots someone he is called white. The left tries to associate white with evil, this is how their anti-white bigotry works.

    And Zimmerman was certainly a victim of the media’s anti-white bigotry.

    This raises the question “Is Zimmerman really white?” and we tend to think about that in terms of racial purity. Zimmerman isn’t “racially pure”, he’s a mixed race hispanic.

    But think about his: if someone is white enough to be a victim of anti-white bigotry, then he has a reason to be an ally of white people. He is white enough to have a common enemy: anti-white bigotry. He has cause to advance one specific white interest: the fight against anti-white bigotry.

    Political alliance doesn’t need to be based on racial purity. Alliance is based on a shared sense of solidarity and common interests. If that is missing, then racial similarity alone won’t create political alliance. Take Jews, for instance. Although Jews are racially white, they often do not feel solidarity with other whites and tend to agitate against white interests.

    When the left’s anti-white bigotry has become so deranged that it will attack mixed-race hispanics, it gives us the perfect opportunity to raise the issue of anti-white bigotry with Hispanics (About 70% of whom consider themselves white to begin with). And we start by saying “Anyone white enough to be a victim of anti-white bigotry has reason to fight against it, and to ally themselves with whites in the fight against it.”

    The New York Times wants us to believe that people who look like George Zimmerman are white. Well imagine this: what if all those people who look like Zimmerman started to believe that. And what if they started voting like that, voting Republican. Suddenly the NYT might no be so happy anymore.

    Steve has written about the “flight from white”. The fewer people who ally themselves with “white” and feel solidarity with “white” the weaker whites become. The goal is to reverse that. Showing someone they could be a victim of anti-white bigotry gives them grounds for solidarity. Convincing them to fight against anti-white bigotry instead of running away in fear from it is how you stop the flight from white.

    Everyone assumes that being pro-white must mean alienating Hispanics, but it doesn’t have to be that way. We just need to give Hispanics a reason to be pro-white, and the media is handing it to us on a silver platter.

    And what about immigration? Most polls show Hispanics don’t care about immigration very much. I think getting whitish Hispanics to feel solidarity with White Americans will actually give them a reason to oppose it.

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    • Replies: @Canadian Observer
    Drake's post is very good. The vast majority of "sort of white" or "close to WASPish" people in America don't care for blacks all that much and quietly resent the socio-cultural power they wield: Italians, Hispanics, Christian Arabs, etc. Other than the odd gangbanging cholo, most of the people in these groups don't feel the need to ape black ghetto mannerisms to feel cool, to feel manly or to feel good about themselves.

    There's a reason why those Sopranos youtube clips resonate with us. We look to Italian-Americans as perhaps the best example of those willing to mouth politically incorrect truths. I'm as white bread as it comes, but I admire Italians more than almost anyone.

    What am I getting at? An anti-black and anti-Jewish coalition perhaps. Let's rid the Republican party of the John McCain, Christian Zionist types. That would be a good start.
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  35. IgorR says:

    Herr Zimmerman is of course a Neo-Nazi and simultaneously a Rabbi. With a name like “Zimmerman” what else can he be? How many Peruvians do you know named “Zimmerman”?

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    • Replies: @WowJustWow
    He could certainly be a Jew like Bob Dylan (real name: Robert Zimmerman). But even in that case, if he shot a black kid he'd simply be considered white, not Jewish, because shooting black people is a very "white-presenting" thing to do. Somebody really ought to tell the vast majority of blacks who shoot blacks that they're acting white when they do it. Accusing blacks of acting white is enough to put them off doing their homework; surely it ought to dissuade them from gun violence. I bet a simple PSA on the subject would immediately produce a dramatic reduction in black crime. Is there any black role model who's up to the task? Obama? Sharpton? Cosby?
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  36. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Anyone who thinks Zimmerman is “white” is crazy.

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    • Replies: @josh
    As is anyone who thinks the same about Michael Wines...
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  37. @anon
    Anyone who is smart enough to work at the NY Times must be aware that whites are victimized by blacks at a MUCH higher rate than the reverse...The statistics are very clear about this.

    Why can't they see *this* long term 'continuum'...The blind spot these people have is astounding ...either that, or they are purposely trying to obscure reality for their readers?

    Does the NY Times note the “continuum” represented by the murders of Morgan Harrington and Hannah Graham resulting in the arrest of that other Gentle Giant Jesse Mathew?

    Read More
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  38. Priss Factor [AKA "terrapin gape"] says:

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  39. @Anonymous
    George Zimmerman self-identifies as Hispanic.

    http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Registration.pdf

    Zimmermann’s self-identification Hispanic is an act of cultural appropriation by a privileged white and must be rejected. If he self-identified as a Latina, we would not only accept her choice but champion it, because trans people are an oppressed minority.

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  40. e says:
    @Luke Lea
    OT, but how about protection of the rights of people with Asperger's syndrome?

    World-famous biologist James Watson said he is selling the Nobel Prize medal he won in 1962 for discovering the structure of DNA because he has been ostracised and needs the money

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/11261872/James-Watson-selling-Nobel-prize-because-no-one-wants-to-admit-I-exist.html

    The saddest thing I’ve read lately, not because of the medal but because those who know he’s right remain silent.

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  41. In Brazil they supposedly have a saying, ‘money whitens.’

    In America, murder whitens.

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  42. @Celt Darnell
    That's nothing. Wait until they start counting all Hispanics as white so as to assuage white concerns about being in a minority.

    They'll have to think of something after their Ferguson debacle.

    (I'm only sorry Ferguson decision wasn't released before the midterms. The Republicans would have 60+ senators).

    “Wait until they start counting all Hispanics as white so as to assuage white concerns about being in a minority.”

    That’s already happening. The small town where I live is about one third Latino. Even the mayor is Latino. Yet, according to the census information available on the internet, it’s 98%
    white.

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  43. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Anonymous
    About that NYT piece, look on the bright side: 38 percent of African Americans supported officer Wilson!

    That really puts GOP outreach efforts in context, doesn’t it? W. appointed the first two black Secretaries of State, and courted black voters with easy mortgages, etc. And he got about a quarter of the black support Darren Wilson has.

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  44. Jefferson says:

    “playing devil’s advocate here: the journalist was reporting the opinion of the Nigerian (native South Carolinian?) interviewee. It’s a shite argument, but the one I imagine the NYT would give if questioned on the matter.

    Further, this makes sense from a leftist perspective (bear with me). The concept of ‘whiteness’ is fluid, able to absorb peoples once seen as not white. The best way to tell if a group once seen as not white has become white is if it approves of or engages in behavior contra African-Americans. This makes sense if you believe the group who invented ‘whiteness’- WASPs- is uniquely evil, a sort of cancerous borg. So, behavior defines whiteness. Bad behavior (as determined by ?)= white. Good behavior (again ?)= not white. The Irish weren’t white until they burned down a Black Orphanage during the Draft Riots. Rather than being an example of reprehensible Irish behavior- behavior based on their own self-interest- it was their way of trying to emulate/be accepted by WASPs. Same with Zimmerman. Facts aside, his killing of Martin shows he sees himself as white. If he didn’t see himself as such, he wouldn’t have done it.

    It’s despicable, probably the ugliest, dumbest idea acceptable today.”

    Liberals often say that White is a social construct and that there is really is no such thing as a White person. The irony is these are the same people who keep referring to Darren Wilson as a White police officer and George Zimmerman as a “White” vigilant wannabe cop. What a bunch of hypocrites.

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    • Replies: @josh
    Have the Irish accepted WASPS as white yet?
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  45. So, according to the Times, if I inadvertently use the male pronoun in referring to Bradley (Chelsea) Manning I’m just a thoughtless cisgendered bigot; but they reserve the right to call George Zimmerman “white” regardless of his actual ethnic makeup. “Self – identification” trumps DNA any day of the week saith the Grey Lady. And, of course, the demands of The Narrative trump all. Got it.

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  46. black sea says:

    Nest Step: White Southerner

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  47. For me Zimmermann ist white, too. First of all hispanic is not a race, but rather refers to the language one speaks. Second Zimmermann has a genetic make up which is quite surely major caucasian. His father is 100 % caucasian and his mother is probably a mix between caucasian and amerindian. And amerindian itself is a mix between some kind of “caucasian” (see the “Silverman”) and east asians. So all in all Zimmermann is probably around 2 thirds or even more caucasian.
    For me Zimmermann is a white guy most likely victimized by an extremely aggressive young black guy, who was able to defend himself.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    his mother is probably a mix between caucasian and amerindian.

    Nope. His mother has been referred to as a 'pardo' (of which I think 'zambo' a synonym). Her phenotype is amerindian with negroid leavening (I believe at least one grandparent in her case).

    In Mexico (which I believe is true in the Andes as well), the term 'mestizo' or 'cholo' or 'ladino' refers as much to acculturation as phenotype. In Brazil, the distinction between 'white', 'mulatto', and 'black' is determined by two vectors - class and phenotype. The historian John Russell-Wood explained it thus: "a black man wearing a tie is a mulatto; a mulatto wearing a tie is white".
    , @ben tillman

    For me Zimmermann ist white, too. First of all hispanic is not a race, but rather refers to the language one speaks. Second Zimmermann has a genetic make up which is quite surely major caucasian. His father is 100 % caucasian and his mother is probably a mix between caucasian and amerindian.
     
    We don't need to speculate. We know that his mother is part-Black.
    , @Gringo
    For me Zimmermann ist white, too.... Second Zimmermann has a genetic make up which is quite surely major caucasian. His father is 100 % caucasian and his mother is probably a mix between caucasian and amerindian.

    Add black to the rainbow mixture of George Zimmerman. From Photo of Zimmerman's great-grandfather raises questions about racial profiling article in 2012.


    CNN analyst Mark NeJame pointed to a black-and-white picture of a family of three, including a dark-skinned man he claims was Zimmerman's great-grandfather.

    He also identified a woman pictured standing above the man as Zimmerman's grandmother, and a small child in the man's arms as Zimmerman's mother.

    Speaking to News 13 Friday, NeJame said the photo was just one piece among many that led him to change his mind about whether Zimmerman was racially profiling Trayvon Martin.

    "If President Obama says his son would have looked like Trayvon Martin, then if you look at these pictures, his grandparents and great-grandparents would have looked like George Zimmerman's grandparents and great-grandparents," NeJame said during an appearance Thursday on CNN's "Piers Morgan Tonight."
     

    With a black great grandfather, George Zimmerman would be 1/8 black, which would in the US be considered black. Here are some childhood pictures of George Zimmerman. Compare photos of George Zimmerman with one of Benjamin Jealous, who by virtue of being former President of the NAACP, self-identifies as black, but who probably has a higher percentage of white genes than does George Zimmerman. Here are photos of Ben Jealous with his black mother and grandmother. Both his mother and grandmother appear to be of mixed race. Ben Jealous's father was white.

    Not that simple. It would be interesting to get DNA samples from George Zimmerman and Ben Jealous. I rather agree with the suggestion that by virtue of being of mixed race but of a lighter shade than Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman automatically became white when he killed Martin.

    , @Rotten
    Actually Zimmerman's mother is a mix of African/negroid and Amerindian. Zimmerman could be accurately described as black.
    , @dcite
    His grandmother was black. Peru has a significant black element. Zimmerman identified as "black" during his involvement, often helping out in youth activities. His very articulate brother (who really does look more or less white) explained how his brother had always identified as black, partly just because they were, in part.
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  48. JT says:

    Zimmerman is a white guy and Chelsea Manning is a woman. Fetching Ivy League goggles.

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  49. @IgorR
    Herr Zimmerman is of course a Neo-Nazi and simultaneously a Rabbi. With a name like "Zimmerman" what else can he be? How many Peruvians do you know named "Zimmerman"?

    He could certainly be a Jew like Bob Dylan (real name: Robert Zimmerman). But even in that case, if he shot a black kid he’d simply be considered white, not Jewish, because shooting black people is a very “white-presenting” thing to do. Somebody really ought to tell the vast majority of blacks who shoot blacks that they’re acting white when they do it. Accusing blacks of acting white is enough to put them off doing their homework; surely it ought to dissuade them from gun violence. I bet a simple PSA on the subject would immediately produce a dramatic reduction in black crime. Is there any black role model who’s up to the task? Obama? Sharpton? Cosby?

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  50. Joe Walker says: • Website
    @Jim Sweeney
    If Mr. Wines declares Zimmerman "white" even though his mother was Peruvian, does that make Obama white because his mother was white?

    Obama would only be considered white by the NYT if he killed someone darker than himself. For example, if Zimmerman had been killed by a white person, he would have been considered a “person of color”.

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  51. @Anonymous
    George Zimmerman self-identifies as Hispanic.

    http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Registration.pdf

    It looks like George Zimmerman self-identifies as a Democrat too.

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  52. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Most of the roaming demonstrators reported upon in the various cities appear to be white, using bullhorns to make a lot of noise to make it seem as though their numbers are greater than what they really are. Same goes for the ones laying on the ground within those chalk silhouettes with their ‘don’t shoot’ slogans; mostly white. In Toronto the demonstrators were told to give blacks center stage in what was an attempt at perception management, to make it all seem to be an outpouring of black rage rather than a white-run affair; of course, they gave a different official reason for trying to blacken it up.
    The NYT and other media are not run by blacks although they do have blacks writing for them or standing in front of news cameras reading their script. The media is owned by the white oligarch class, well heeled companies and billionaires. So what is their interest in constantly stoking racial unrest? In the Zimmerman and Ferguson cases, constant waving of the red flag for ancient cases such as Till and Scottsboro, what’s the purpose in keeping things hyped up? The two NYT reporters who released policeman Wilson’s new address, thus endangering him, Bosman and Robertson, are both white (their own addresses were released on the internet in apparent retaliation. One lives in Chicago and the other in LA, neither in NY). The black riffraff thug class can always be counted upon to provide some muscle power and come out to loot, burn, riot and party. They don’t need a dead thug incident to get things rolling. In the ’77 NY power blackout they looted just because the opportunity presented itself. Many people in this country are just one power outage, one police withdrawal, one dead thug incident away from from being ruined, losing most of what they’ve worked for. There’s an unlimited supply of thugs who tangle with the police daily; at any moment one could become the next martyr. When’s the next incident?
    What’s the endgame with all this promotion of sectarian and racial strife? Ratings and market share no longer seem to be adequate explanations.

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  53. Flemur says:

    2012 shooting of Trayvon Martin, an African-American man, by a white Florida man who was later acquitted of murder; the 2009 fatal shooting of an Oakland black man by a white transit officer who was found guilty of manslaughter instead of murder.

    So, a few thousand black men are murdered each year, and the anti-white racists have to go back 2 years and 5 years to find supposedly racial incidents to get worked up about. Which shows that its “continuum”, if any, is relatively quite trivial.

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  54. @ Drake– I agree with your points.

    I don’t believe, as Karl Rove does, that Hispanics are natural Republicans any more than whites are, but it should be possible to appeal to a significant portion of them. First thing is the Republicans would need to drop their Beta behavior. Stop seeking moral validation from black people. Start letting blacks know they need to improve their behavior if they are going to earn our validation. Stop trying to make arguments like “a higher percentage of Republicans supported the Civil Rights Act than did Democrats”–it comes off as needy. Start responding to blacks the way Giuliani responded to Dyson. The obsequiousness, the constant walking on eggs, is pathetic. No one respects people who won’t stand up for themselves and certainly no one wants to identify with them. If instead of merely mouthing platitudes about values and patriotism, the Republican Party would make itself the party of core American values, which are white values, it would not only appeal to more Hispanics but more whites as well.

    Since there is a large element of the Hispanic population that is reliant on government benefits, the Republicans are never going to get all of them. However, there are a lot of Hispanics that work hard and don’t identify with the interests of black people. If the Republicans could somehow get their share of the Hispanic vote up to 50%, Democrats might begin to lose interest in flooding the country with Hispanic immigrants.

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  55. They first started off calling him white, then switched to “white hispanic” when forced after the embarassing truth came out (he’s not really that, either, but gotta slip white in there somewhere).

    But you knew they still wanted to call him white. Its just so damned inconvenient that he’s Hispanic, it screws up the otherwise perfect little narrative story of evil white man killing an innocent little black child, and pits two Democrat groups against each other.

    Once the embarrassing truth faded a little into the distance, you knew they would go back to calling him white. After some time, all the inconvenient truths go down the memory hole. Expect the fact that the evidence showed Trayvon attacked him, that Zimmerman acted in self-defense, that Zimmerman was a democrat who worked with black youths and helped his community, that his white half was membership in the tribe, that Trayvon was a drug using gangsta-wannabe petty thief to also go down the memory hole. All that will remain will be the essence of the original story whenever the MSM refers to it in the future, an eternal lesson for the ages showing that evil white men are still oppressing blacks because an evil white man gunned down a cherubic black teenager, teaching us that blacks are still oppressed, that white men should still have a finger pointed at them, that more needs to be done to “even the playing field” to take away from whites and be given to blacks.

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  56. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Very soon liberals will reach reductio ad absurdum and start referring to Obama as a ‘black-white.’

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  57. “For me Zimmermann ist white, too. First of all hispanic is not a race, but rather refers to the language one speaks. Second Zimmermann has a genetic make up which is quite surely major caucasian. His father is 100 % caucasian and his mother is probably a mix between caucasian and amerindian. And amerindian itself is a mix between some kind of “caucasian” (see the “Silverman”) and east asians. So all in all Zimmermann is probably around 2 thirds or even more caucasian.
    For me Zimmermann is a white guy most likely victimized by an extremely aggressive young black guy, who was able to defend himself.”

    -You’re not really up on the way things work in the US, are you?

    We work on the one-drop rule here (except for Native-Americans, who choose to define themselves based on higher percentages and proof of parentage to limit the way the goodie pie is split). If you had even 1 great-great-great grandparent who was black or Hispanic, then you label yourself as black or Hispanic to be a poor victim of oppression and get handouts. In fact, even the Native American thing apparently isn’t set in stone, since Elizabeth Warren was 1/32 pretend Native American, and she used these fictitious bonafides to great effect for her career. In Zimmerman’s case, he didn’t even look white, so the average American wouldn’t think he was white. That means if we are to buy the nonsense that brown people are oppressed good people, as the NYT preaches, then he should be labeled with the “honorific” of hispanic and not white, because whites are terrible evil people, and liberals want as many on their side as they can get when it comes time to count heads, and votes. He was labeled white because they thought he did something bad, shooting an innocent black kid, and had a white-sounding name, not because he was actually white. It just works out so much more neatly for the narrative for him to be white.

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  58. KFC says:

    For me Zimmermann ist white, too. First of all hispanic is not a race, but rather refers to the language one speaks.

    Now let’s not overthink this. Every neurotypical knows that in American English as she is spoken “hispanic” doesn’t mean Spanish-speaking. It means what los hispanohablantes refer to as a “mestizo” (Spanish for “mixed”).

    Second Zimmermann has a genetic make up which is quite surely major caucasian. His father is 100 % caucasian and his mother is probably a mix between caucasian and amerindian. And amerindian itself is a mix between some kind of “caucasian” (see the “Silverman”) and east asians.

    Nope. Aside from your other incorrect assertions, in American English “white” doesn’t mean “major[ly] caucasian”. It means of European descent with no visible admixture of non-European.

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  59. josh says:
    @Anonymous
    Anyone who thinks Zimmerman is "white" is crazy.

    As is anyone who thinks the same about Michael Wines…

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  60. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @BubbaJoe
    playing devil's advocate here: the journalist was reporting the opinion of the Nigerian (native South Carolinian?) interviewee. It's a shite argument, but the one I imagine the NYT would give if questioned on the matter.

    Further, this makes sense from a leftist perspective (bear with me). The concept of 'whiteness' is fluid, able to absorb peoples once seen as not white. The best way to tell if a group once seen as not white has become white is if it approves of or engages in behavior contra African-Americans. This makes sense if you believe the group who invented 'whiteness'- WASPs- is uniquely evil, a sort of cancerous borg. So, behavior defines whiteness. Bad behavior (as determined by ?)= white. Good behavior (again ?)= not white. The Irish weren't white until they burned down a Black Orphanage during the Draft Riots. Rather than being an example of reprehensible Irish behavior- behavior based on their own self-interest- it was their way of trying to emulate/be accepted by WASPs. Same with Zimmerman. Facts aside, his killing of Martin shows he sees himself as white. If he didn't see himself as such, he wouldn't have done it.

    It's despicable, probably the ugliest, dumbest idea acceptable today.

    Good analysis.

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  61. Art Deco says: • Website
    @Erik Sieven
    For me Zimmermann ist white, too. First of all hispanic is not a race, but rather refers to the language one speaks. Second Zimmermann has a genetic make up which is quite surely major caucasian. His father is 100 % caucasian and his mother is probably a mix between caucasian and amerindian. And amerindian itself is a mix between some kind of "caucasian" (see the "Silverman") and east asians. So all in all Zimmermann is probably around 2 thirds or even more caucasian.
    For me Zimmermann is a white guy most likely victimized by an extremely aggressive young black guy, who was able to defend himself.

    his mother is probably a mix between caucasian and amerindian.

    Nope. His mother has been referred to as a ‘pardo’ (of which I think ‘zambo’ a synonym). Her phenotype is amerindian with negroid leavening (I believe at least one grandparent in her case).

    In Mexico (which I believe is true in the Andes as well), the term ‘mestizo’ or ‘cholo’ or ‘ladino’ refers as much to acculturation as phenotype. In Brazil, the distinction between ‘white’, ‘mulatto’, and ‘black’ is determined by two vectors – class and phenotype. The historian John Russell-Wood explained it thus: “a black man wearing a tie is a mulatto; a mulatto wearing a tie is white”.

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  62. Big Bill [AKA "The Shyster"] says:

    Is there an HR professional who can tell us how the rules work for reporting the race of new hires to the feds? Are they obligated to report the race as self-identified by the new hire? Or are they obligated to copy a new hire’s race from his birth certificate or picture ID?

    Under race-based/ethnic loan programs (e. g. various SBA loan programs) the Federal Code requires that each applicant be certified as a member of the group before the loan will be granted. This certification is performed by various agencies scattered around the USA. They review documents, schedule home visits, perform a visual inspection of the person and the decree whether applicants are of their claimed race/ethny.

    What race is listed on Zimmerman’s birth certificate, his driver’s license, and his arrest records?

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  63. Art Deco says: • Website
    @Luke Lea
    OT, but how about protection of the rights of people with Asperger's syndrome?

    World-famous biologist James Watson said he is selling the Nobel Prize medal he won in 1962 for discovering the structure of DNA because he has been ostracised and needs the money

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/11261872/James-Watson-selling-Nobel-prize-because-no-one-wants-to-admit-I-exist.html

    Wilson says he would like the money to buy a piece of artwork. He says he has ‘no income’ apart from his ‘academic income’. After more than five decades in academe, the man indubitably has an agreeable TIAA-CREF pension as well as his Social Security and Medicare and any private assets he’s been able to accumulate (from corporate directorships, &c.).

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  64. @Drake
    I think we all know there is a double standard regarding "white": that if Zimmerman had won a Noble prize he would be called Hispanic, but if he shoots someone he is called white. The left tries to associate white with evil, this is how their anti-white bigotry works.

    And Zimmerman was certainly a victim of the media's anti-white bigotry.

    This raises the question "Is Zimmerman really white?" and we tend to think about that in terms of racial purity. Zimmerman isn't "racially pure", he's a mixed race hispanic.

    But think about his: if someone is white enough to be a victim of anti-white bigotry, then he has a reason to be an ally of white people. He is white enough to have a common enemy: anti-white bigotry. He has cause to advance one specific white interest: the fight against anti-white bigotry.

    Political alliance doesn't need to be based on racial purity. Alliance is based on a shared sense of solidarity and common interests. If that is missing, then racial similarity alone won't create political alliance. Take Jews, for instance. Although Jews are racially white, they often do not feel solidarity with other whites and tend to agitate against white interests.

    When the left's anti-white bigotry has become so deranged that it will attack mixed-race hispanics, it gives us the perfect opportunity to raise the issue of anti-white bigotry with Hispanics (About 70% of whom consider themselves white to begin with). And we start by saying "Anyone white enough to be a victim of anti-white bigotry has reason to fight against it, and to ally themselves with whites in the fight against it."

    The New York Times wants us to believe that people who look like George Zimmerman are white. Well imagine this: what if all those people who look like Zimmerman started to believe that. And what if they started voting like that, voting Republican. Suddenly the NYT might no be so happy anymore.

    Steve has written about the "flight from white". The fewer people who ally themselves with "white" and feel solidarity with "white" the weaker whites become. The goal is to reverse that. Showing someone they could be a victim of anti-white bigotry gives them grounds for solidarity. Convincing them to fight against anti-white bigotry instead of running away in fear from it is how you stop the flight from white.

    Everyone assumes that being pro-white must mean alienating Hispanics, but it doesn't have to be that way. We just need to give Hispanics a reason to be pro-white, and the media is handing it to us on a silver platter.

    And what about immigration? Most polls show Hispanics don't care about immigration very much. I think getting whitish Hispanics to feel solidarity with White Americans will actually give them a reason to oppose it.

    Drake’s post is very good. The vast majority of “sort of white” or “close to WASPish” people in America don’t care for blacks all that much and quietly resent the socio-cultural power they wield: Italians, Hispanics, Christian Arabs, etc. Other than the odd gangbanging cholo, most of the people in these groups don’t feel the need to ape black ghetto mannerisms to feel cool, to feel manly or to feel good about themselves.

    There’s a reason why those Sopranos youtube clips resonate with us. We look to Italian-Americans as perhaps the best example of those willing to mouth politically incorrect truths. I’m as white bread as it comes, but I admire Italians more than almost anyone.

    What am I getting at? An anti-black and anti-Jewish coalition perhaps. Let’s rid the Republican party of the John McCain, Christian Zionist types. That would be a good start.

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  65. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Did you see the Rupert Murdoch Twitter controversy regarding the new Moses movie and the Egyptians?

    http://www.showbiz411.com/2014/11/28/rupert-murdoch-defends-moses-movie-casting-since-when-are-egyptians-not-white

    Moses film attacked on Twitter for all white cast. Since when are Egyptians not white? All I know are.

    — Rupert Murdoch (@rupertmurdoch) November 29, 2014

    Everybody-attacks last tweet. Of course Egyptians are Middle Eastern, but far from black. They treated blacks as slaves.

    — Rupert Murdoch (@rupertmurdoch) November 29, 2014

    Okay, there are many shades of color. Nothing racist about that, so calm down!

    — Rupert Murdoch (@rupertmurdoch) November 29, 2014

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  66. @Erik Sieven
    For me Zimmermann ist white, too. First of all hispanic is not a race, but rather refers to the language one speaks. Second Zimmermann has a genetic make up which is quite surely major caucasian. His father is 100 % caucasian and his mother is probably a mix between caucasian and amerindian. And amerindian itself is a mix between some kind of "caucasian" (see the "Silverman") and east asians. So all in all Zimmermann is probably around 2 thirds or even more caucasian.
    For me Zimmermann is a white guy most likely victimized by an extremely aggressive young black guy, who was able to defend himself.

    For me Zimmermann ist white, too. First of all hispanic is not a race, but rather refers to the language one speaks. Second Zimmermann has a genetic make up which is quite surely major caucasian. His father is 100 % caucasian and his mother is probably a mix between caucasian and amerindian.

    We don’t need to speculate. We know that his mother is part-Black.

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  67. tex says:

    “How many Peruvians do you know named “Zimmerman”?”

    I know about a dozen Peruvians, all with German surnames. They speak Spanish, but they are mixed German, and native.

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    Linda Ronstadt: German and Mexican. I've known a couple of German and Mexican people from the Southwest.
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  68. Gringo says:
    @Erik Sieven
    For me Zimmermann ist white, too. First of all hispanic is not a race, but rather refers to the language one speaks. Second Zimmermann has a genetic make up which is quite surely major caucasian. His father is 100 % caucasian and his mother is probably a mix between caucasian and amerindian. And amerindian itself is a mix between some kind of "caucasian" (see the "Silverman") and east asians. So all in all Zimmermann is probably around 2 thirds or even more caucasian.
    For me Zimmermann is a white guy most likely victimized by an extremely aggressive young black guy, who was able to defend himself.

    For me Zimmermann ist white, too…. Second Zimmermann has a genetic make up which is quite surely major caucasian. His father is 100 % caucasian and his mother is probably a mix between caucasian and amerindian.

    Add black to the rainbow mixture of George Zimmerman. From Photo of Zimmerman’s great-grandfather raises questions about racial profiling article in 2012.

    CNN analyst Mark NeJame pointed to a black-and-white picture of a family of three, including a dark-skinned man he claims was Zimmerman’s great-grandfather.

    He also identified a woman pictured standing above the man as Zimmerman’s grandmother, and a small child in the man’s arms as Zimmerman’s mother.

    Speaking to News 13 Friday, NeJame said the photo was just one piece among many that led him to change his mind about whether Zimmerman was racially profiling Trayvon Martin.

    “If President Obama says his son would have looked like Trayvon Martin, then if you look at these pictures, his grandparents and great-grandparents would have looked like George Zimmerman’s grandparents and great-grandparents,” NeJame said during an appearance Thursday on CNN’s “Piers Morgan Tonight.”

    With a black great grandfather, George Zimmerman would be 1/8 black, which would in the US be considered black. Here are some childhood pictures of George Zimmerman. Compare photos of George Zimmerman with one of Benjamin Jealous, who by virtue of being former President of the NAACP, self-identifies as black, but who probably has a higher percentage of white genes than does George Zimmerman. Here are photos of Ben Jealous with his black mother and grandmother. Both his mother and grandmother appear to be of mixed race. Ben Jealous’s father was white.

    Not that simple. It would be interesting to get DNA samples from George Zimmerman and Ben Jealous. I rather agree with the suggestion that by virtue of being of mixed race but of a lighter shade than Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman automatically became white when he killed Martin.

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    Skinnier, older George Zimmerman at this trial look disconcertingly like Barack Obama.
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  69. Clyde says:

    The dude looks mucho Hispanic in that photo. Lot more “Spanish” than some of the pale, male hacks on Univision.

    wikipedia-
    George Zimmerman had identified himself as Hispanic on voter registration forms.[7]

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  70. Whiskey says: • Website

    OT, today’s FT has an interview with James Watson. He’s selling his Nobel Prize, first living recipient to do so, because he ran out of money and survives only on his academic pension. No one will hire him to speak.

    Personally, I think it is time for people like Ron Unz and so on to come forward and offer Watson speaking gigs or crowd-sourced fundraising for speeches on a hosted video site (available for registered donors only) so he does not have to sell his Nobel.

    This is important because its pushback on the Liberal Ivy League degenerate elite filled with religious fervor. I hate the whole religious/Puritan witchfinding, and I’d like to stick it to them.

    The FT is a hundred times the newspaper that the NYT is. Sure, ultra liberal. But ignore everything but the business news. Excellent reporting on what the Saudis are doing (classic cartel / monopolist using low prices to destroy competitors so they can jack them up in the future).

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    • Replies: @vinteuil
    @Whiskey: by his own account, Watson is auctioning off his Nobel medal not because he's particularly short of ready cash, but because he'd like to buy a painting by (the talentless fraud, David) Hockney.

    He could have stood up for himself. Instead, he caved. Damn him for a coward.
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  71. Re: For me Zimmermann ist white, too. First of all hispanic is not a race, but rather refers to the language one speaks. Second Zimmermann has a genetic make up which is quite surely major caucasian. His father is 100 % caucasian and his mother is probably a mix between caucasian and amerindian. And amerindian itself is a mix between some kind of “caucasian” (see the “Silverman”) and east asians. So all in all Zimmermann is probably around 2 thirds or even more caucasian.

    OK, while I applaud your logic, the law says otherwise.

    Because of his ethnicity, Zimmerman is eligible for affirmative action preferences. And while you may not define “Hispanics” as a race, Uncle Sam defines them as an ethnicity.

    And for what it’s worth, my sympathies would be with Zimmerman whatever his skin color. I prefer the law-abiding to the lawless every time.

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  72. @Jean Cocteausten
    NYT writers are not as good with words as they used to be. "Continuum" in this context doesn't mean a sequence of similar events; it means a sequence of events where insignificant differences between events 1 and 2, 2 and 3, and so on, eventually add up to a significant difference. One could base a good SAT-V question on this confusion.

    NYT writers are not as good with words as …

    …those across town at the New Yorker.

    “Continuum” in this context…

    …would be “continuüm” over there.

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  73. @Hereward

    President Obama says only Native Americans have the right to object to immigration.

    Is Liz Warren up to the burden placed on her?

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  74. Utterly missing in this discussion is the intriguing Piers Morgan-Rachel Jeantel-Steve Sailer angle that Martin’s return to attack was an impromptu gay-bashing. (“He no policeman, he a pederast!” Oh, wait… Rachel’s of foreign stock, so she speaks coherent English. Sorry…)

    But that would add to the confusing “white Hispanic” recipe the additional layer of “gayish straight”, and no one is up to parsing all of that.

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  75. Jon says:

    Note that comments are not allowed on this NYT article. The Times must suppress anyone assisting anyone else in “noticing”.

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  76. Forbes says:
    @anon
    Anyone who is smart enough to work at the NY Times must be aware that whites are victimized by blacks at a MUCH higher rate than the reverse...The statistics are very clear about this.

    Why can't they see *this* long term 'continuum'...The blind spot these people have is astounding ...either that, or they are purposely trying to obscure reality for their readers?

    Smart enough to know which facts to ignore and which facts to cherry pick.

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  77. @tex
    "How many Peruvians do you know named “Zimmerman”?"

    I know about a dozen Peruvians, all with German surnames. They speak Spanish, but they are mixed German, and native.

    Linda Ronstadt: German and Mexican. I’ve known a couple of German and Mexican people from the Southwest.

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    • Replies: @josh
    Must be a good ethnic joke in there...
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Linda Ronstadt: German and Mexican
     
    And the father of Nacio Herb Brown, who composed the songs used in "Singing in the Rain". The elder Brown was a sheriff in New Mexico, but they moved to LA, where Nacio got his musical education.

    How many golden-age Hollywood composers are hometown boys? Brown, and Richard Whiting, who went to military school there, and that's about it. Oh, and André Previn.

    , @Gringo
    Linda Ronstadt: German and Mexican. I’ve known a couple of German and Mexican people from the Southwest.

    Linda Ronstadt is a first cousin first removed of Roque Dalton, poet . journalist and revolutionary from El Salvador. Roque Dalton was executed/assassinated in 1975, allegedly for CIA collaboration. Joaquin Villalobos, later a big kingpin in the FMLN, was involved in Dalton's killing. Most likely his killing was simply an example of the fratricidal nature of the Salvadorean left.

    Salvador Cayetano Carpio, a.k.a. Comandante Marcial, who was involved in deciding whether or not Roque Dalton should be permitted to join the guerrillas, later died in 1983 in Managua. The line from the Gs was that Cayetano Carpio committed suicide after being blaned for the death of FPL second in command Mélida Anaya Montes. Which supports the conclusion that Roque Dalton merely died as a consequence of internecine conflict among the Gs.


    http://lasa.international.pitt.edu/LARR/search/browse/searchindex/?Volume=46/1&Sort=Vol Roger Atwood: Gringo Iracundo- Roque Dalton and his father
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roque_Dalton

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  78. @Gringo
    For me Zimmermann ist white, too.... Second Zimmermann has a genetic make up which is quite surely major caucasian. His father is 100 % caucasian and his mother is probably a mix between caucasian and amerindian.

    Add black to the rainbow mixture of George Zimmerman. From Photo of Zimmerman's great-grandfather raises questions about racial profiling article in 2012.


    CNN analyst Mark NeJame pointed to a black-and-white picture of a family of three, including a dark-skinned man he claims was Zimmerman's great-grandfather.

    He also identified a woman pictured standing above the man as Zimmerman's grandmother, and a small child in the man's arms as Zimmerman's mother.

    Speaking to News 13 Friday, NeJame said the photo was just one piece among many that led him to change his mind about whether Zimmerman was racially profiling Trayvon Martin.

    "If President Obama says his son would have looked like Trayvon Martin, then if you look at these pictures, his grandparents and great-grandparents would have looked like George Zimmerman's grandparents and great-grandparents," NeJame said during an appearance Thursday on CNN's "Piers Morgan Tonight."
     

    With a black great grandfather, George Zimmerman would be 1/8 black, which would in the US be considered black. Here are some childhood pictures of George Zimmerman. Compare photos of George Zimmerman with one of Benjamin Jealous, who by virtue of being former President of the NAACP, self-identifies as black, but who probably has a higher percentage of white genes than does George Zimmerman. Here are photos of Ben Jealous with his black mother and grandmother. Both his mother and grandmother appear to be of mixed race. Ben Jealous's father was white.

    Not that simple. It would be interesting to get DNA samples from George Zimmerman and Ben Jealous. I rather agree with the suggestion that by virtue of being of mixed race but of a lighter shade than Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman automatically became white when he killed Martin.

    Skinnier, older George Zimmerman at this trial look disconcertingly like Barack Obama.

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  79. josh says:
    @Jefferson
    "playing devil’s advocate here: the journalist was reporting the opinion of the Nigerian (native South Carolinian?) interviewee. It’s a shite argument, but the one I imagine the NYT would give if questioned on the matter.

    Further, this makes sense from a leftist perspective (bear with me). The concept of ‘whiteness’ is fluid, able to absorb peoples once seen as not white. The best way to tell if a group once seen as not white has become white is if it approves of or engages in behavior contra African-Americans. This makes sense if you believe the group who invented ‘whiteness’- WASPs- is uniquely evil, a sort of cancerous borg. So, behavior defines whiteness. Bad behavior (as determined by ?)= white. Good behavior (again ?)= not white. The Irish weren’t white until they burned down a Black Orphanage during the Draft Riots. Rather than being an example of reprehensible Irish behavior- behavior based on their own self-interest- it was their way of trying to emulate/be accepted by WASPs. Same with Zimmerman. Facts aside, his killing of Martin shows he sees himself as white. If he didn’t see himself as such, he wouldn’t have done it.

    It’s despicable, probably the ugliest, dumbest idea acceptable today."

    Liberals often say that White is a social construct and that there is really is no such thing as a White person. The irony is these are the same people who keep referring to Darren Wilson as a White police officer and George Zimmerman as a "White" vigilant wannabe cop. What a bunch of hypocrites.

    Have the Irish accepted WASPS as white yet?

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  80. josh says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Linda Ronstadt: German and Mexican. I've known a couple of German and Mexican people from the Southwest.

    Must be a good ethnic joke in there…

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  81. Jefferson says:

    If Giancarlo Esposito (Gus Fring from Breaking Bad) was the same skin color as George Zimmerman, he would look more Caucasian than George Zimmerman. Gus Fring has more Caucasoid looking facial features than George Zimmerman.

    Gus Fring got his skin color pigmentation from his Black mother, but his facial features from his Italian father.

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  82. Priss Factor [AKA "terrapin gape"] says:

    Kevin Reynolds is a remarkable director, and this is a very fine movie, but critics dumped on it. Idiots.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristan_%26_Isolde_%28film%29#Box_office

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  83. FWIW says:
    @Anonymous
    Steve, any thoughts on 62 year old Mickey Rourke knocking out a 29 year old black boxer in a boxing match in Moscow?

    "Mickey Rourke's king of the ring again: Actor, 62, emerges victorious and beats boxing opponent half his age in minutes "

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2853452/Mickey-Rourke-s-king-ring-Actor-62-emerges-victorious-beats-boxing-opponent-half-age-minutes-takes-jabs-Twitter.html

    Not that it matters much, but Mickey Rourke lies about his age and is 65.

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  84. IgorR says:

    A Hispanic, a German, and a Jew walk into a bar, and the bartender asks, “What will it be Mr. Zimmerman?”

    Mr. Zimmerman stood his ground and this cured His panic.

    What is Hispanic, black, and white all over? You know the answer…

    and this one that only makes sense if you know the history of the trial:

    “Knock-knock.”

    “Who’s there?”

    “George Zimmerman.”

    “George Zimmerman who is white?”

    “Alright good. Welcome to New York Times!”

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  85. IgorR says:

    This presumes they give a damn about black-on-black crime.

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    • Replies: @David In TN
    "This presumes they give a damn about black-on-black crime."

    In general, they try to pretend black-on-anybody crime doesn't exist. You often hear liberals whine "People only pay attention when the victims are pretty white girls."

    Wrong.

    The MSM dropped the Eve Carson, Lauren Burk, and Anne Pressly stories when their killers turned out to be black. Cases with pretty white girl victims become national dramas if their killers look like Scott Peterson or Joran Van Der Sloot.
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  86. Jefferson says:

    “Drake’s post is very good. The vast majority of “sort of white” or “close to WASPish” people in America don’t care for blacks all that much and quietly resent the socio-cultural power they wield:”

    Than the majority of them should stop voting Democrat if they resent the socio-cultural power that Blacks wield.

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  87. Jefferson says:

    The irony that the left wing media has an extreme hatred of the Triracial George Zimmerman, when their goal is for one day the vast majority of Americans be Triracial just like George Zimmerman.

    George Zimmerman is the product of racial miscegenation, so the left wing elites in the media should be celebrating him not condemning him. They should be happy that the German American father chose a Vibrantly Diverse Peruvian woman for marriage and not a Stale Pale Female.

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  88. IgorR says:

    A little OT: redefining whiteness down:

    http://www.showbiz411.com/2014/11/28/rupert-murdoch-defends-moses-movie-casting-since-when-are-egyptians-not-white

    Rupert Murdoch Defends Moses Movie Casting: “Since When Are Egyptians Not White?”

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  89. vinteuil says: • Website
    @Whiskey
    OT, today's FT has an interview with James Watson. He's selling his Nobel Prize, first living recipient to do so, because he ran out of money and survives only on his academic pension. No one will hire him to speak.

    Personally, I think it is time for people like Ron Unz and so on to come forward and offer Watson speaking gigs or crowd-sourced fundraising for speeches on a hosted video site (available for registered donors only) so he does not have to sell his Nobel.

    This is important because its pushback on the Liberal Ivy League degenerate elite filled with religious fervor. I hate the whole religious/Puritan witchfinding, and I'd like to stick it to them.

    The FT is a hundred times the newspaper that the NYT is. Sure, ultra liberal. But ignore everything but the business news. Excellent reporting on what the Saudis are doing (classic cartel / monopolist using low prices to destroy competitors so they can jack them up in the future).

    : by his own account, Watson is auctioning off his Nobel medal not because he’s particularly short of ready cash, but because he’d like to buy a painting by (the talentless fraud, David) Hockney.

    He could have stood up for himself. Instead, he caved. Damn him for a coward.

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  90. “History isn’t written by the winners, it’s written by the writers of history.”

    Hey, that’s my line! Or actually, it’s a line I first heard from a history professor in college who was a good lecturer. He looked at the class one day and asked, out of nowhere, “Who writes history?” The class, predictably and dispiritedly mumbled “The winners, of course, duh, that’s not even a question,” et cetera, to which he snapped back: “Wrong! Historians write the history.” It was one of those unforgettable moments in my life where another scale fell from my eyes.

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  91. @Anonymous
    George Zimmerman self-identifies as Hispanic.

    http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Registration.pdf

    “George Zimmerman self-identifies as Hispanic.”

    I self-identify as African-American whenever any government entity demands this information. No one has yet to question me about this, but I’ll be ready if they make that mistake. See, evolution and Science has proven that homo sapiens originated in Africa; therefore, everyone is African-whateverican. If you want to keep the Section 8 Eye of Sauron from Noticing your whitey white community, I recommend you do the same.

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  92. He could have stood up for himself. Instead, he caved. Damn him for a coward.

    Yes. Was Watson in any less of a position financially to stand up for himself than was John Derbyshire? I don’t think so. It’s a question of how much your integrity means to you–or your manhood. Watson gained nothing by caving in, and in fact lost the respect of people on all sides.

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  93. Mr. Anon says:

    “Clyde says:

    The dude looks mucho Hispanic in that photo. Lot more “Spanish” than some of the pale, male hacks on Univision.”

    That’s actually a good way of characterizing his ethnic background:

    Zimmerman is latino enough that he’d never get a job with Univision.

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  94. thanatos says:
    @Miller
    This articles explains why Zimmerman is white:

    articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-03-25/news/bal-a-whiter-shade-of-privilege-20120323_1_gregory-howard-williams-africans-whiter-shade

    That article doesn’t explain anything,it merely makes unsupported statements about race being a social construct and then cites bs that is irrelevant from a scientific standpoint.

    It says race doesn’t exist except for as a label, and yet, somehow all the bad things that happen get dumped on “Whites”. Not on “Blacks”. Not on “Asians”. On “Whites”. Why is that? For one thing,it’s because the people who say that race cannot be scientifically verified are often from a race that never even came up with an original alphabet or invented the wheel. They couldn’t scientifically verify that the sky was blue.

    For another thing, it’s because these people could NEVER be mistaken for “White”,no matter how much wealth they had or prestige they had.

    What they do,rhetorically, is very much like making a movie using a miniature model set. They use a narrow focus and play with perspective so you THINK you’re looking at a giant monster, when really it’s a very small toy. Once you pull back and get a wider shot, you see the little puppeteers under the table and off to the side working these little tiny models. Take this,for instance:”Well into the 20th century, America recognized dozens of “races.” In that America, people we now regard as white — the Irishman, Conan O’Brien; the Armenian, Andre Agassi; the Jew, Jerry Seinfeld — could not have taken for granted that they would be seen that way. People like this had to become white, had to earn whiteness, a feat African-Americans have found impossible to duplicate, no matter how many harsh chemicals they use on their hair and skin.”

    This paragraph actually demolishes his argument that “whiteness is a social construct”,though he doesn’t realize it because he is an idiot. Read it again. No matter how many chemicals negroes use on their hair and skin, they were never able to be considered White. This is because ,RACIALLY,they are not White. They have a different average skull shape, different average IQ,different average brain volume, they can’t even pronounce a wide variety of European-derived words because of their lips usually. Words like “ask”,for example.

    His claim that America recognized Irish,Polish,Italian, etc as different “races” is historically ignorant and spurious and lazy.They were and are different ethnicities within the inherently diverse White race. Because Anglo-Saxons wanted to be the face of our race, they practiced and still do practice to some degree an amount of prejudice towards Alpine Whites.Their claim that Irish were “not White” was a hyperbolic one. They were stating a belief that Irish were more akin to gypsies,negroes,etc than they were.This was mostly based on the fact that Irish lived closer to the land and did a lot more manual labor than Anglo-Saxons. But the fact that ethnic prejudice against Irish promulgated by Anglo-Saxons once existed doesn’t make Irish any less White any more than the belief of Nordic Whites that THEY are the true archetype of Whiteness makes Anglo-Saxons any less White comparitively.

    “White, then, is not simply color, but privilege — not necessarily in the sense of wealth, but rather in the sense of having one’s personhood and individuality respected, a privilege so basic I doubt it registers with many whites as privilege at all. We’re talking about the privilege of being seen, of having your worth presumed, of receiving the benefit of the doubt and some human compassion, of being treated as if you matter.”

    Yeah, and this benefit accrues from respecting others’ property rights and individual personhood. When you shoot people to prove your gangsta street creds and torch their business because you’re upset about a bunch or ridiculous nonsense,guess what,YOU FORFEIT THAT RESPECT. …

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  95. Jefferson says:

    “In Brazil they supposedly have a saying, ‘money whitens.’

    In America, murder whitens”

    In America money Whitens too, but this only applies to Asian Americans. High paid Asian workers in Silicon Valley are counted as Honorary Whites in regards to Vibrant Diversity statistics. That is why you still have left wingers writing articles and blogs about the lack of Nonwhites in Silicon Valley.

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  96. @Steve Sailer
    Linda Ronstadt: German and Mexican. I've known a couple of German and Mexican people from the Southwest.

    Linda Ronstadt: German and Mexican

    And the father of Nacio Herb Brown, who composed the songs used in “Singing in the Rain”. The elder Brown was a sheriff in New Mexico, but they moved to LA, where Nacio got his musical education.

    How many golden-age Hollywood composers are hometown boys? Brown, and Richard Whiting, who went to military school there, and that’s about it. Oh, and André Previn.

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  97. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    All I know is if I was walking down a street and got mugged by George Zimmerman, or a reasonable facsimile of him, I would tell the cops that a brown skinned person was the culprit. I would never dream of telling the cops that the attacker was “white”. But that’s’ just my lying eyes and unreconstructed politically incorrect brain talking, right? Because in America, brown people are “white” when they do, or are accused of doing, something bad.

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  98. @IgorR
    @WowJustWow

    This presumes they give a damn about black-on-black crime.

    “This presumes they give a damn about black-on-black crime.”

    In general, they try to pretend black-on-anybody crime doesn’t exist. You often hear liberals whine “People only pay attention when the victims are pretty white girls.”

    Wrong.

    The MSM dropped the Eve Carson, Lauren Burk, and Anne Pressly stories when their killers turned out to be black. Cases with pretty white girl victims become national dramas if their killers look like Scott Peterson or Joran Van Der Sloot.

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  99. Rotten says:
    @Erik Sieven
    For me Zimmermann ist white, too. First of all hispanic is not a race, but rather refers to the language one speaks. Second Zimmermann has a genetic make up which is quite surely major caucasian. His father is 100 % caucasian and his mother is probably a mix between caucasian and amerindian. And amerindian itself is a mix between some kind of "caucasian" (see the "Silverman") and east asians. So all in all Zimmermann is probably around 2 thirds or even more caucasian.
    For me Zimmermann is a white guy most likely victimized by an extremely aggressive young black guy, who was able to defend himself.

    Actually Zimmerman’s mother is a mix of African/negroid and Amerindian. Zimmerman could be accurately described as black.

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  100. dcite says:
    @Erik Sieven
    For me Zimmermann ist white, too. First of all hispanic is not a race, but rather refers to the language one speaks. Second Zimmermann has a genetic make up which is quite surely major caucasian. His father is 100 % caucasian and his mother is probably a mix between caucasian and amerindian. And amerindian itself is a mix between some kind of "caucasian" (see the "Silverman") and east asians. So all in all Zimmermann is probably around 2 thirds or even more caucasian.
    For me Zimmermann is a white guy most likely victimized by an extremely aggressive young black guy, who was able to defend himself.

    His grandmother was black. Peru has a significant black element. Zimmerman identified as “black” during his involvement, often helping out in youth activities. His very articulate brother (who really does look more or less white) explained how his brother had always identified as black, partly just because they were, in part.

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  101. dcite says:

    “they can’t even pronounce a wide variety of European-derived words because of their lips usually.”

    Lips are not the reason. There are blacks with thin features. Very fine featured Ethiopians also tend to have a “black” sound to their voices. I’ve read it has something to do with their tongues being shorter. They have a different sound to the voice (they do have stronger throat muscles) and it’s not accent. It’s the sound itself.

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  102. Gringo says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Linda Ronstadt: German and Mexican. I've known a couple of German and Mexican people from the Southwest.

    Linda Ronstadt: German and Mexican. I’ve known a couple of German and Mexican people from the Southwest.

    Linda Ronstadt is a first cousin first removed of Roque Dalton, poet . journalist and revolutionary from El Salvador. Roque Dalton was executed/assassinated in 1975, allegedly for CIA collaboration. Joaquin Villalobos, later a big kingpin in the FMLN, was involved in Dalton’s killing. Most likely his killing was simply an example of the fratricidal nature of the Salvadorean left.

    Salvador Cayetano Carpio, a.k.a. Comandante Marcial, who was involved in deciding whether or not Roque Dalton should be permitted to join the guerrillas, later died in 1983 in Managua. The line from the Gs was that Cayetano Carpio committed suicide after being blaned for the death of FPL second in command Mélida Anaya Montes. Which supports the conclusion that Roque Dalton merely died as a consequence of internecine conflict among the Gs.

    http://lasa.international.pitt.edu/LARR/search/browse/searchindex/?Volume=46/1&Sort=Vol Roger Atwood: Gringo Iracundo- Roque Dalton and his father

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roque_Dalton

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  103. Jefferson says:

    ““This presumes they give a damn about black-on-black crime.”

    In general, they try to pretend black-on-anybody crime doesn’t exist. You often hear liberals whine “People only pay attention when the victims are pretty white girls.”

    Wrong.

    The MSM dropped the Eve Carson, Lauren Burk, and Anne Pressly stories when their killers turned out to be black. Cases with pretty white girl victims become national dramas if their killers look like Scott Peterson or Joran Van Der Sloot.”

    Yeah there is no way the death of the late Natalee Holloway would have received so much national media attention if Joran Van Der Sloot was a Black Aruban instead of a White Aruban.

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  104. Cloudbuster says: • Website
    @Hereward

    I laugh when I read a liberal say something like that. Do they really want to go down that path? Because if you look honestly at what unrestricted immigration did to Native Americans, you can’t come to any other conclusion: unrestricted immigration was *terrible* for Native Americans. We have, therefore, every reason to think it will be terrible for the current native population.

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  105. SF says:

    http://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/picquet/picquet.html

    As an Octoroon, George Zimmerman would have been a slave 160 years ago unless he had papers to prove he was a free Negro.

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