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NYT: If Brexit Had Come 10 Years Ago, Today's London Restaurants Would Serve Mostly Porridge and Boiled Mutton
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NYT restaurant reviewer on his previous trip to London, c. 2008

From the New York Times:

Beyond Porridge and Boiled Mutton: A Taste of London

A newcomer to the city’s recent flowering as a culinary destination samples restaurants from Shoreditch to the West End, and finds flavors from India, Basque Country, the Mediterranean and more.

By Robert Draper
Aug. 15, 2018

As Britain — like its younger sibling across the pond — gruffly proclaims its distance from the outside world (at least for the political moment), we can all be thankful that Brexit came too late to halt the culinary globalization of London.

Put ideology aside. This otherwise noble capital inclining its palate to devotees of porridge and boiled mutton was never a thing to celebrate. … The drab baseline held longer than it should have — even through the roaring ‘90s, which brought higher restaurant prices without a corresponding leap in adventurousness.

A decade had passed before I returned to London and discovered that I’d missed the revolution…. What was once a sallow and predictable dining experience is now salubrious and full of surprises, befitting a metropolis of such diversity and ingenuity.

 
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  1. Anon[211] • Disclaimer says:

    Question: do those restaurants still serve knives with meals? What about sporks?

    https://www.newsmax.com/thewire/knives-home-delivery-ban/2018/04/09/id/853417/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    From that link:

    "This government has always stood for law and order and to tackle violent crime effectively, robust legislation and powerful law enforcement must be in place," said home secretary Amber Rudd.

     

    Criminals are shivering in their knickers because someone named "Amber" is on their trail. Is this real life, or a Warner Brothers cartoon?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
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  2. This is British food by a native during the 1990′s:

    Read More
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  3. Why didn’t he just say “Bread and Circuses”

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  4. DFH says:

    How many girls being raped by Pakistanis is nice food worth? 10? 100? 10,000?

    Read More
    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    Indian food is shit. So is Persian food. Med food is ok, it depends on what part of the Med we are talking about. I'll take boiled mutton any day of the week over whatever combination of mushed up beans, vegetables, herbs and dirt sun people cook up.
    , @Anonymous
    Please note that we do not have to choose one to get the other. That's NYT thinking, though of course they don't say it. Further, please note that they consider enslavement of white children to be a feature, not a bug, of their program.

    Finally, it requires--at most--thousands of migrants to get whatever culinary benefits they're imagining, not the tens of millions we now have in the USA, for instance.

    , @Rosamond Vincy
    Curry's alright, but they had plenty of curry places when I was there in '02, '03, and '06. They didn't need to import more immigrants because of the Curry Famine.

    BTW, no place has ever had gruel on the menu. Maybe you've got to ask for it to be made up special. "Bespoke curry"?
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  5. As Britain — like its younger sibling across the pond — gruffly proclaims its distance from the outside world (at least for the political moment), we can all be thankful that Brexit came too late to halt the culinary globalization of London.

    Yeah never mind the displacement of native born brits (oh that’s a feature not a bug) , rapes, sky rocketing crime, terrorism, murder, we have diversity!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hank Yobo
    Britain, historically, took pride in its agricultural self-sufficiency while European rivals--like the Frogs--had to eat . . . frogs and other associated delicacies to prevent starvation. "Beef and beer" vs. nouvelle cuisine. Lord Horatio Nelson would be proud of men? like Robert Draper.
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  6. eah says:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Diane Kennedy's authentic guacamole recipe. No immigrants needed.

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2017/05/cooking-with-counter-currents/
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  7. Pericles says:

    “Beyond brisket and bagels — a taste of New York”

    Read More
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  8. Mr. Anon says:

    NYT: If Brexit Had Come 10 Years Ago, Today’s London Restaurants Would Serve Mostly Porridge and Boiled Mutton

    Instead they now serve kebabs and fifteen year old white girls.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lurker
    Or 15 year old white girls in the kebabs.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4158972/convicted-paedophile-51-arrested-over-murder-of-blackpool-teenager-charlene-downes-whose-body-was-chopped-into-kebabs-following-2003-disappearance/
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  9. Mungerite says:

    Weird how Japan manages to do just about every cuisine in the world worth doing almost perfectly with barely any immigration.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alfa158
    Japan has more Michelin starred restaurants than any other country, including France. You can find a restaurant, of any ethnicity, in Japan that will be at least as good as any in the country of origin. I remember once stopping in a Viennese pastry shop in Tokyo to get a pastry to go. The only difference in that pastry from any I’ve had in Vienna, is that the Japanese server carefully placed my pastry in a little cardboard box, added a piece of dry ice to keep it cool during my trip home, and closed it up with a gift ribbon and bow. All that for one cream eclair.
    , @The Last Real Calvinist

    Weird how Japan manages to do just about every cuisine in the world worth doing almost perfectly with barely any immigration.

     

    Just this. Japan (and Hong Kong and Bangkok and pretty much every big Asian city these days) has wonderful food, and you can find pretty much any cuisine you want.

    There's a building near my church in HK that has about 20 floors, with restaurants on most of the floors. Just in that single (smallish by HK standards) building you can find Chinese food (naturally), Japanese (several options), Korean, Greek, Spanish, Italian, a retro-50s diner-style joint -- you get the point.

    , @Anon
    Japan can't do Mexican. There are a lot of Indian restaurants, however, but they are mostly operated by ... wait for it ... immigrants, from Nepal for the most part.

    On the other hand, native Japanese bakers and pastry chefs are legion, and many have studied and worked in France. The pastries are toned down in sweetness for the local market in many cases. There are many Italian restaurants whose menu has not been filtered through the super meaty, cheesy, fatty Italiana-American filter, with native Japanese chefs who have worked in Italy. And boutique hamburger shops are having a heyday.

    There is decent Chinese and Taiwanese food, along with Japanese-Chinese, called Chuuka, but there you see a lot of ... immigrants. Korean places tend to have Koreans working there.

    I think the difference is that if you are a skilled chef or cook willing to learn Japanese and wanting to set up a decent, financially solvent ethnic restaurant, you are welcome, but if you want to be on public aid and bring in your whole deadbeat family, you aren't. If you are a black African, but are O.K. with working your ass off in construction, you can overstay your tourist visa and we'll look the other way, but since you're illegal I wouldn't make long-term plans.

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  10. Robert Draper should avoid putting his 2¢ in on subjects he doesn’t understand. Immigrants and their cuisine have been a feature of London for decades if not generations. Brexit is about national sovereignty and trade deals and the UK making its own immigration policies not NK style isolationism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I ate at an Indian restaurant in London in 1965 when I was six.
    , @PiltdownMan
    A guide to fine dining in London was published in 1815.

    https://www.amazon.com/Epicures-Almanack-Drinking-Original-Guidebook/dp/0712358617
    , @Saxon
    No, it was primarily about immigration and the fact that London is no longer an English city. Neither for that matter are Bradford, Manchester, and Birmingham. The fact that all of these other issues are connected to the demographic problems of too many foreigners crowding out the natives is just kind of how things go.
    , @Tyrion 2
    The article says it is about the food but the writer really seems to be thinking about the lovely low wages of the staff...

    As the BBC forlorned:

    A decade or so ago a curry chef would earn around £15,000 a year. Now, a restaurant has to pay almost double that as well as jumping a series of complex bureaucratic hurdles to persuade the Home Office to allow them to bring in a chef from abroad.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36378655
    , @Sarah Toga
    Yeah, those English restaurants with their English food are just awful . . .

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2001/oct/14/foodanddrink.features13
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  11. Arclight says:

    As the occasionally revealing comments from the American and British elite show, any level of immigration is OK if it means cheap labor to staff lawn care services, nannies, construction, and the back of the house at nice restaurants. Only total bigots could oppose that!

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  12. Anon[112] • Disclaimer says:

    These people are so disconnected from ordinary folks that the only thing they ever think of is “is it fun for me?” They are the most banal, conceited snobs imaginable. “Destroy a nation’s social cohesion so I can brag about expensive restaurants to my snobby friends? Sure. Sounds fun. It’s not like it’ll affect me. I can afford to live elsewhere. Say, who’s up for Hamilton?” Sounds a lot like the European upperclass tradition of memorizing useless facts, riddles, and stories to amuse their snobby guests during diner functions.

    Read More
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  13. istevefan says:

    So food it is. You know a guy’s got nothing when he resorts to food as his argument for open borders. It’s become the equivalent of using the Nazi or racist label when losing a debate.

    BTW – we need to bring up Japan more and more. As others have pointed out, Japan has great food from around the world without having invited the world. They are Rick Bayless on steroids.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Antlitz Grollheim
    Japan's food culture is syncretic, obsessive, and amazing:

    https://youtu.be/Uu5zGHjRaMo

    https://youtu.be/soCqbov8xH4

    https://youtu.be/dxq-7RcC0Tc

    https://youtu.be/jFqa_ZNl48o
    , @pyrrhus
    But the food would have rotted in the kitchens without the Pakis!
    , @Rosamond Vincy

    You know a guy’s got nothing when he resorts to food as his argument for open borders. It’s become the equivalent of using the Nazi or racist label when losing a debate.
     
    But...but...wienerschnitzel and grits!
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  14. Andy says:

    Funny that when globalists are pressed of the benefits of mass immigration from the third world the only cogent answer that they can came up with is that exotic food will now be more readily available

    Read More
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  15. Hank Yobo says:
    @ACommenter

    As Britain — like its younger sibling across the pond — gruffly proclaims its distance from the outside world (at least for the political moment), we can all be thankful that Brexit came too late to halt the culinary globalization of London.
     
    Yeah never mind the displacement of native born brits (oh that's a feature not a bug) , rapes, sky rocketing crime, terrorism, murder, we have diversity!

    Britain, historically, took pride in its agricultural self-sufficiency while European rivals–like the Frogs–had to eat . . . frogs and other associated delicacies to prevent starvation. “Beef and beer” vs. nouvelle cuisine. Lord Horatio Nelson would be proud of men? like Robert Draper.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I can handle a plate of frog legs now and then, so long as the joint is clean enough to, for example, keep the snails off the food:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP51U_QBx48
    , @Rosamond Vincy
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v5lhjYzbfco
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  16. I recall that a month or two ago, I was reading through an immigration-related blog thread here. There was a discussion over how pro-immigration activists cite “good restaurants” as a huge benefit of mass immigration. Pro-immigration activists always claim that if immigration is stopped, we won’t get to eat delicious foreign food anymore.

    Somebody then mention there’s been this amazing recent invention that may change the culinary world.

    That invention is called a “cookbook.”

    I LOLed at the comment, but I think that poster had a point.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Of course, there are good cookbooks and evil cookbooks.

    Be careful, guys.

    The world of cookbooks can be a scary place.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk01eeKMD_I
    , @notso whiteboy
    That invention is called a “cookbook.” Except most of the low-life visiting here lack the intellectual curiosity to buy a book especially one written by a (gasp) feriner (sic). Face it boys, Caucasians are NOT responsible for much in the culinary world. Escoffier - a frog. Bocuse - froggy also. Batali - Eyetalian. Samuelson - Swedish/Ethiopian (colored too!). Bastianich - Eyetalian. Chiarello - yup; greaseball too. Flay - 'Murican who cooks...Beaner foods! Keller - 'Muican who cooks Froggy food. Pepin - another damn frog (damn those freedom fries!).WAIT! Let's "build that wall" around France! Yup, them inglorious bastids are gonna mess with our grilled cheese, 'mater soup & nachos next!
    , @Chrisnonymous
    Cookbooks are worthless if you can't source ingredients. That's what immigrants actually contribute. When you get enough, they start growing/producing/importing things from the home country. The reason Japan does so (comparatively) well with (select) foreign cuisines despite its (comparative) lack of immigrants is that Japanese mentality pushes them to go to lengths--like traveling to the foreign country to study the cuisine in context--while the general wealth and obsession with food makes people willing to spend on overpriced imported things.
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  17. Anon[383] • Disclaimer says:

    It might be worth asking some actual Londoners when nice restaurants stopped serving “boiled mutton”. My guess would be the 18th century.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Old fogey
    It would be a real pity if no London restaurants were to serve well-made stewed lamb with leeks, turnips and other traditional English vegetables, wouldn't it? Or does just calling it "mutton" put everyone off their food nowadays?

    By the way, why don't we find pork chops and sauerkraut on our menus any more? Remember ham with pineapple? Mashed potatoes? I took a 90-year-old friend to dinner the other night and she was thoroughly disgusted to find that the menu featured more quesadillas, tostadas and "wraps" than anything she could easily recognize. And we had especially chosen to take her to an up-scale diner to make things as nice as possible for her. You know, something like the good old times. . .
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  18. Lot says:

    Got an e-mail from 23andMe about them now testing for two Parkinson’s disease gene variants.

    Clicked on the distribution of it. One of them is found in 1.88% of AJs and 0.08% other Euro. The second is in 5.96% of AJs and 0.48% of non-AJ Euros. This is new data as these percentages are based on the 23andMe customer base.

    So more evidence that AJs had very rapid selection for IQ, even at the risk of an awful disease.

    Interestingly, AJs, after evolving an IQ boost mutation that also increases Parkinson’s disease risk, seem to have then evolved further to mitigate the risk. The LRRK2 mutation increases PD risk by 10% in AJ carriers but 30% in non-AJ carriers. This data is from Hui K 2018.

    Read More
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  19. istevefan says:

    As Britain — like its younger sibling across the pond — gruffly proclaims its distance from the outside world (at least for the political moment)…

    First, Britain is not a sibling to the USA. It’s more of a parent.

    Second, Britain has not proclaimed its distance from the outside world, unless one defines the outside world as Brussels. The level of hyperbole is off the charts with these people.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bragadocious
    "First, Britain is not a sibling to the USA. It’s more of a parent."

    I think of Britain more as a stalker ex-girlfriend.
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  20. @JohnnyWalker123
    I recall that a month or two ago, I was reading through an immigration-related blog thread here. There was a discussion over how pro-immigration activists cite "good restaurants" as a huge benefit of mass immigration. Pro-immigration activists always claim that if immigration is stopped, we won't get to eat delicious foreign food anymore.

    Somebody then mention there's been this amazing recent invention that may change the culinary world.

    That invention is called a "cookbook."

    I LOLed at the comment, but I think that poster had a point.

    Of course, there are good cookbooks and evil cookbooks.

    Be careful, guys.

    The world of cookbooks can be a scary place.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  21. @miss marple
    Robert Draper should avoid putting his 2¢ in on subjects he doesn't understand. Immigrants and their cuisine have been a feature of London for decades if not generations. Brexit is about national sovereignty and trade deals and the UK making its own immigration policies not NK style isolationism.

    I ate at an Indian restaurant in London in 1965 when I was six.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    The first Indian restaurant in London run by an Indianopened in 1810.

    However, the first appearance of curry on a menu was at the Norris Street Coffee House, Haymarket, London in 1773.

    Hannah Glasse’s, 1774 book, Art of Cookery Made Plain and Easy, contained a recipe ‘to make curry the Indian way’, as well as making ‘a pellow’ (pilau).

    https://londonist.com/2016/06/the-story-of-london-s-first-indian-restaurant

    So I think he misses the mark by about 250 years.

    I found the recipe here:

    https://ia802605.us.archive.org/25/items/artcookerymadep02glasgoog/artcookerymadep02glasgoog.pdf

    on p.101. Not every authentic but it does call for turmeric and ginger.

    , @Anonymous
    Most pubs in England and Ireland seem to have the same or very similar menus. They seem to have standardized fare supplied by the same few suppliers. Kind of like Chinese restaurants. Fish and chips, some kind of Shepherd's pie thing, burgers and fries, full English or Irish breakfast, etc. And a lot of them will also have a curry dish. Even random pubs in the middle of nowhere in rural Ireland will have a curry dish along with traditional pub fare.
    , @Cowboy shaw
    Gandhi in his biography talks of finding an Indian inspired vegetarian restaurant in about 1900.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    I ate at an Indian restaurant in London in 1965 when I was six.
     
    And lived. Impressive.
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  22. @istevefan
    So food it is. You know a guy's got nothing when he resorts to food as his argument for open borders. It's become the equivalent of using the Nazi or racist label when losing a debate.

    BTW - we need to bring up Japan more and more. As others have pointed out, Japan has great food from around the world without having invited the world. They are Rick Bayless on steroids.

    Japan’s food culture is syncretic, obsessive, and amazing:

    Read More
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  23. Blubb says:

    Don’t import people! Import cooking books! Less hassle. And you can still carry a pocket knife, plus no one throws acid in your face.

    Oh, and I remember, the borough market attack killed lots of people in and in front of some of the best restaurants in the capital. At least they died with a full stomach.

    Read More
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  24. Lot says:

    Indian food is overrated. Every single type of SE Asian curry I have tried is better than Indian types.

    Who have provided the world with more tasty dishes: the 68 million French, 68 million Thais, or the combined 2.5 billion Africans and South Asians?

    Read More
    • Replies: @MG
    What do you mean by “Indian food”? The insipid, greasy gunk served in most Punjabi-cuisine restaurants that masquerades as Indian cuisine? There is no “Indian food.” Food from India, yes. Don’t judge “Indian food” by the mostly terrible restaurants in the West. The regional variety and subtlety of food in India are probably unrivaled. The “curry” you are used to is made with stale pre-packaged powders bought in Indian grocery stores here. Real ‘masalas’ are ground fresh. No Indian restaurant here serves fresh masala food.
    , @JohnnyWalker123
    What the pho?
    , @Anonymous
    It's just a matter of taste, no? Thai food has coconut and very fragrant flavors. Lots of people prefer South Asian food, which includes meat heavy Pakistani and northern Indian food to vegetarian South Indian food, to Thai and SE Asian food.
    , @Daniel Williams

    Who have provided the world with more tasty dishes: the 68 million French, 68 million Thais, or the combined 2.5 billion Africans and South Asians?
     
    Africans fed hundreds according to this article: https://nypost.com/2017/08/22/hundreds-confess-to-eating-human-flesh-in-south-africa/
    , @Achmed E. Newman

    Who have provided the world with more tasty dishes:
     
    Ray Kroc. He's provided Billions and Billions!

    (I'm pretty serious. If it weren't for all the sat-fat and salt, I'd eat that type of stuff 2 meals a day.)
    , @Anonymous
    ......as that old Jim Davidson* joke goes 'no wonder Gandhi wore a diaper'.


    *celebrated English 'blue comic'.
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  25. @DFH
    How many girls being raped by Pakistanis is nice food worth? 10? 100? 10,000?

    Indian food is shit. So is Persian food. Med food is ok, it depends on what part of the Med we are talking about. I’ll take boiled mutton any day of the week over whatever combination of mushed up beans, vegetables, herbs and dirt sun people cook up.

    Read More
    • Replies: @El Dato
    You crazy man?

    Next you will be telling me it's ok to drivetru at Burger King.
    , @ThreeCranes
    My English two cents. Riding my bicycle through the English countryside I would eat supper at a country pub. There was always a dinner special which I always ordered along with a pint of beer, or two or three. So I'm eating a real turkey drumstick, real mashed potatoes, green beans--okay, maybe they were overdone, the way Mom cooked em, but so what?--and maybe a roll or slice of bread of some kind, locally baked or baked in the kitchen. Real food! Food that will propel me many miles tomorrow. And like you, I thought it was great.

    Where in America can you get a real turkey drumstick for your meal? Who bakes turkeys anymore in restaurants? As you say, I'll take that any day of the week over couscous or hummus.

    Remember when Rumpole of Old Bailey said that the English had made two great contributions to civilization? The English breakfast and Common Law. I have a theory about that. The French guys in WW2 couldn't fight worth a damn because they started the day with a croissant and a cup of coffee. The English, on the other hand, fortified with eggs, bacon, sausage, baked beans, greasy toast and a slice of tomato were fueled for a hard day's slog.

    Course my theory is probably bull roar. I don't know what the Germans ate.

    , @The Alarmist
    If you dare to go there, there are several good Lebanese restaurants on Edgeware Road, near Marble Arch.
    , @JSM
    How do I cook boiled mutton? (I'm serious. I want to try it!)
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  26. MG says:
    @Lot
    Indian food is overrated. Every single type of SE Asian curry I have tried is better than Indian types.

    Who have provided the world with more tasty dishes: the 68 million French, 68 million Thais, or the combined 2.5 billion Africans and South Asians?

    What do you mean by “Indian food”? The insipid, greasy gunk served in most Punjabi-cuisine restaurants that masquerades as Indian cuisine? There is no “Indian food.” Food from India, yes. Don’t judge “Indian food” by the mostly terrible restaurants in the West. The regional variety and subtlety of food in India are probably unrivaled. The “curry” you are used to is made with stale pre-packaged powders bought in Indian grocery stores here. Real ‘masalas’ are ground fresh. No Indian restaurant here serves fresh masala food.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    I don't hate it, and have it several times a year when someone else is picking. I have been to several places with 90% of the customer are Indians, as well as Paki and Nepalese places. The meat is dry and overcooked, too much vegetable oil (never olive) in everything, etc.

    On the other hand, cheap Thai takeout is usually very good if you know what to get (not orange chicken!), and cheap French food in France was also great. I wish we had cheap French takeout around here too.
    , @Massimo Heitor

    There is no “Indian food.” Food from India, yes. Don’t judge “Indian food” by the mostly terrible restaurants in the West. The regional variety and subtlety of food in India are probably unrivaled.
     
    This goes for every regional genre of food. You couldn't do a NYC restaurant or a Chicago restaurant and capture the range and variety of food available in those cities and you can't do it for a country either. Restaurants typically pick a menu of expected best-sellers. And all restaurants are going to make trade offs for convenience and practicality and cost efficiency.
    , @Tyrion 2
    You could get a reasonably priced lunch menu at Tamarind. I assume their Michelin star meant they made their food fresh and not with a local grocery story bought paste...

    I still preferred my actually cheap local Thai.

    (Sadly, Tamarind are rennovating and will probably come back without the well-priced lunch.)
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  27. mr. wild says:
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  28. Didn’t someone recently claim that France’s World Cup victory is proof of the benefits of mass migration?

    The sad thing is that a large fraction of the public (in America and apparently also in France) probably wouldn’t mind inviting in a horrendous migrant group as long as it boosted their sportsball team’s chances of winning the “Big Game.”

    By the way, here’s the trailer for a movie called “Big Fan.”

    If you want to understand the mind of the average American man, I highly recommend watching the trailer. This trailer is a very accurate description of how the average American male thinks and behaves. Once you watch this trailer, you’ll have a better understanding of why this country is in so much trouble. You’ll also get a glimpse into why so many Whites are in awe of Blacks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    Agree 110%. That trailer is absolutely sickening.

    I hope I can recover my appetite in time to have a steak for dinner this evening.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    And that's a Giants' fan? They're one of the few NFL teams who didn't throw their dignity down the cheerleaders' bidet. And their logo is one of the least violent.
    , @moshe
    I never understood sports fans.

    I guess I'm kind of autistic when it comes to sports fans. I can understand them intellectually but never caught whatever fever it is that they have.

    Thanks to allah the merciful I'm living a rather varied life so I've come across all sorts of people and situations and had ample opportunity to catch the sports bug but never have - despite betting tens of thousands of OPM on sports games (I took a commission on wins) and sneaking onto the final game of the World Cup in maracaña (where I bellowed "Deutschland unter alles!" to the paying customers).

    I *have* however gained an appreciation for Blacks. To my mind they are god's chosen people. We're talking averages of course, but pound for pound blacks are superior to all of the other races of man. Everyone else is walking around with a stick up his ass but like madonna sang 40 years ago, "blacks just wanna have fu-un. O-oh blacks just wanna have fun".

    I recall steve mentioning patton oswald in some positive context at some point (did he actually tweer-quote steve or something?) but the guy just *looks* like the sort of thing Mother Nature gave birth to at the high school prom and left in a dumpster.
    , @Desiderius
    You’re (way) worse than Whiskey.
    , @Anon
    https://www.counter-currents.com/2011/10/big-fan/
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  29. @Lot
    Indian food is overrated. Every single type of SE Asian curry I have tried is better than Indian types.

    Who have provided the world with more tasty dishes: the 68 million French, 68 million Thais, or the combined 2.5 billion Africans and South Asians?

    What the pho?

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    • Replies: @Lot
    An average bowl of pho tastes better than every single Indian dish I have ever had.

    In India's defense, the food would probably be better if the French had colonized them.
    , @The Last Real Calvinist

    What the pho?

     

    There's a restaurant up the street from me called just that. Haven't tried it yet, but it looks pretty good.
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  30. Anon7 says:

    I think the Brits were ready for curries:

    “Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don’t look like mutton again tomorrer,” said one of the trolls.

    JRR Tolkien, The Hobbit, 1937

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  31. Lot says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    What the pho?

    An average bowl of pho tastes better than every single Indian dish I have ever had.

    In India’s defense, the food would probably be better if the French had colonized them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Peasant
    'In India’s defense, the food would probably be better if the French had colonized them.'

    Pondicherry
    , @moshe
    German cuisine can only benefit from diversity.

    https://youtu.be/gOE-q20RcDM
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  32. Doesn’t Mr. Draper remember the Two Fat Ladies? Deliciously decadent food, most of it English, and calories are no object. I own the series on DVD.

    Anybody who mindlessly repeats the old trope abut England being a culinary wasteland simply doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

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    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    Are you a Brit?

    We visited London in 2016 and ate in a pub, of which there seem to be thousands to choose from. Gotta have fish and chips! Well, all that new foodie influence and my spouse suffered through a bland and greasy meal. The "pint" was so big I guess the point was to make one drunk enough not to notice the yuckiness of the food.
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  33. Isn’t it cultural appropriation for an Englishman to eat anything other than a fry-up?

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  34. Lot says:
    @MG
    What do you mean by “Indian food”? The insipid, greasy gunk served in most Punjabi-cuisine restaurants that masquerades as Indian cuisine? There is no “Indian food.” Food from India, yes. Don’t judge “Indian food” by the mostly terrible restaurants in the West. The regional variety and subtlety of food in India are probably unrivaled. The “curry” you are used to is made with stale pre-packaged powders bought in Indian grocery stores here. Real ‘masalas’ are ground fresh. No Indian restaurant here serves fresh masala food.

    I don’t hate it, and have it several times a year when someone else is picking. I have been to several places with 90% of the customer are Indians, as well as Paki and Nepalese places. The meat is dry and overcooked, too much vegetable oil (never olive) in everything, etc.

    On the other hand, cheap Thai takeout is usually very good if you know what to get (not orange chicken!), and cheap French food in France was also great. I wish we had cheap French takeout around here too.

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  35. @istevefan

    As Britain — like its younger sibling across the pond — gruffly proclaims its distance from the outside world (at least for the political moment)...
     
    First, Britain is not a sibling to the USA. It's more of a parent.

    Second, Britain has not proclaimed its distance from the outside world, unless one defines the outside world as Brussels. The level of hyperbole is off the charts with these people.

    “First, Britain is not a sibling to the USA. It’s more of a parent.”

    I think of Britain more as a stalker ex-girlfriend.

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    • LOL: Kylie
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  36. Anon[364] • Disclaimer says:

    “Didn’t someone recently claim that France’s World Cup victory is proof of the benefits of mass migration?”

    Trevor Noah. Also claimed that the French team wasn’t French. Side note: Noah is from South Africa, a country whose racist president is about to steal white farm lands without compensation, but all we ever hear from the guy is Trump, Trump, Trump…it’s almost like he has some kind of racial bias or something. Democrats have gotten so fringe they are now having to import racists to do the comedy that Americans won’t do themselves: Trevor Noah, Jim Jefferies, Jonathan Oliver…

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  37. Altai says:

    I love how they totally ignore the removal of the uniqueness of London with the displacement of it’s indigenous population found nowhere else along with the total destruction of community and population of the city with endless depressed office commuters and massive inequality is totally overlooked. The city becoming overpopulated and a playground for oligarch developers and the main centre of dodgy money from all over the world doesn’t register either. As a foreigner he doesn’t understand how slowly it grinds people down to have to listen to loud and endless phone conversations in foreign languages on the bus or tube.

    Young people face a grim future and difficulty getting a home? Who cares? The tiny number of tedious soulless people whose hobby is ‘food’ have more places than ever to enjoy the fruits of overworked, underpaid Eastern European kitchen staff.

    I really think they don’t understand how they sound like Kelly Osbourne talking about how it’ll be the end of the world when one can’t get illegal immigrant servants for untaxed below minimum wage. Very few people eat out on a regular basis and lots of people don’t give a damn about food at all.

    I’d love for somebody to confront these people with the fact that the people you see in the newsreels from the Blitz? They’re gone. Their descendants are gone, either through birth rate and generation time depression from competing with immigrants or through being displaced to Essex or elsewhere.

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Very few people eat out on a regular basis and lots of people don’t give a damn about food at all.
     
    I don't live in England, Altai, so this is an American's view, but, I disagree about the frequency of occurrence of eating out and who's doing it. What I have seen is lots of young people who get the exotic food and fancy coffees. Keep in mind, lots of them work in the food/barista business themselves, and they spend all of their disposable income, it seems, on the same stuff. The money goes round and round with no savings and investment out of it.

    These are people who'd sneer at you as a cheapskate if you balk at buying a $5 hot chocolate that comes in a 10 oz mug, when you make about 4 x the income they do. That and the Big Fan trailer that Johnny Walker showed do represent a lot of America.
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  38. Jack D says:
    @Steve Sailer
    I ate at an Indian restaurant in London in 1965 when I was six.

    The first Indian restaurant in London run by an Indianopened in 1810.

    However, the first appearance of curry on a menu was at the Norris Street Coffee House, Haymarket, London in 1773.

    Hannah Glasse’s, 1774 book, Art of Cookery Made Plain and Easy, contained a recipe ‘to make curry the Indian way’, as well as making ‘a pellow’ (pilau).

    https://londonist.com/2016/06/the-story-of-london-s-first-indian-restaurant

    So I think he misses the mark by about 250 years.

    I found the recipe here:

    https://ia802605.us.archive.org/25/items/artcookerymadep02glasgoog/artcookerymadep02glasgoog.pdf

    on p.101. Not every authentic but it does call for turmeric and ginger.

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    • Replies: @Not Raul
    You beat me to it!
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  39. @JohnnyWalker123
    Didn't someone recently claim that France's World Cup victory is proof of the benefits of mass migration?

    The sad thing is that a large fraction of the public (in America and apparently also in France) probably wouldn't mind inviting in a horrendous migrant group as long as it boosted their sportsball team's chances of winning the "Big Game."

    By the way, here's the trailer for a movie called "Big Fan."

    If you want to understand the mind of the average American man, I highly recommend watching the trailer. This trailer is a very accurate description of how the average American male thinks and behaves. Once you watch this trailer, you'll have a better understanding of why this country is in so much trouble. You'll also get a glimpse into why so many Whites are in awe of Blacks.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzQKeqMogh8

    Agree 110%. That trailer is absolutely sickening.

    I hope I can recover my appetite in time to have a steak for dinner this evening.

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  40. El Dato says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike
    Indian food is shit. So is Persian food. Med food is ok, it depends on what part of the Med we are talking about. I'll take boiled mutton any day of the week over whatever combination of mushed up beans, vegetables, herbs and dirt sun people cook up.

    You crazy man?

    Next you will be telling me it’s ok to drivetru at Burger King.

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  41. Much of the pro-immigration rhetoric assumes it is our duty to make room for other people.

    Bullshit.

    It is our duty to make our nation better, and if it means restricting immigration to only those with skills we need, or genes we want*, then that is the right thing to do.

    It is our nation, not theirs.

    *I’m thinking Swedish bikini team here. OTOH don’t care how high someone can jump. I have a ladder.

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  42. Not Raul says:
    @Jack D
    The first Indian restaurant in London run by an Indianopened in 1810.

    However, the first appearance of curry on a menu was at the Norris Street Coffee House, Haymarket, London in 1773.

    Hannah Glasse’s, 1774 book, Art of Cookery Made Plain and Easy, contained a recipe ‘to make curry the Indian way’, as well as making ‘a pellow’ (pilau).

    https://londonist.com/2016/06/the-story-of-london-s-first-indian-restaurant

    So I think he misses the mark by about 250 years.

    I found the recipe here:

    https://ia802605.us.archive.org/25/items/artcookerymadep02glasgoog/artcookerymadep02glasgoog.pdf

    on p.101. Not every authentic but it does call for turmeric and ginger.

    You beat me to it!

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  43. @Intelligent Dasein
    Doesn't Mr. Draper remember the Two Fat Ladies? Deliciously decadent food, most of it English, and calories are no object. I own the series on DVD.

    Anybody who mindlessly repeats the old trope abut England being a culinary wasteland simply doesn't know what he's talking about.

    Are you a Brit?

    We visited London in 2016 and ate in a pub, of which there seem to be thousands to choose from. Gotta have fish and chips! Well, all that new foodie influence and my spouse suffered through a bland and greasy meal. The “pint” was so big I guess the point was to make one drunk enough not to notice the yuckiness of the food.

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    • Replies: @Jack D

    The “pint” was so big
     
    Any other complaints? An "imperial" (British) pint is around 20% larger than a US pint - to me that's a good thing.
    , @The Wild Geese Howard

    We visited London in 2016 and ate in a pub, of which there seem to be thousands to choose from. Gotta have fish and chips!
     
    Sorry, can't resist:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irdmKcBjcpg
    , @Tyrion 2
    Perfect. You ate at a bar where they serve microwave meals to tourists. Ask for a recommendation next time or use Google. You wouldn't eat at that type of trap in your own city...
    , @LondonBob
    You should check out the reviews of pubs and restaurants first before going in, some are budget chain pubs which I would never eat in, some are gastropubs, besides fish and chips is inevitably greasy on some level.
    , @Graham
    Yeah, a sample of one is really conclusive. Try choosing more carefully next time. Online reviews are your friend. I visited San Francisco in 2014 and had a disappointing meal. I draw no conclusions from that.
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  44. @Anon
    Question: do those restaurants still serve knives with meals? What about sporks?

    https://www.newsmax.com/thewire/knives-home-delivery-ban/2018/04/09/id/853417/

    From that link:

    “This government has always stood for law and order and to tackle violent crime effectively, robust legislation and powerful law enforcement must be in place,” said home secretary Amber Rudd.

    Criminals are shivering in their knickers because someone named “Amber” is on their trail. Is this real life, or a Warner Brothers cartoon?

    Read More
    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    Amber is talking about thought crimes, especially posts on the internet that aren't PC...It takes a lot of officers to watch Facebook all day...
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  45. Anonymous[409] • Disclaimer says:

    I was in Berlin about 5 years ago, and the food there was terrible. The variety and quality of the restaurants and culinary scene and cuisines available were very bad. Especially considering that it’s the capital of the largest economy in Europe. Obviously cuisine doesn’t justify immigration. But they wouldn’t even need immigration. Just some chefs and an interest in good food and cuisine. I mean, France and Italy are right there. You’d think they’d have borrowed and been influenced by their cuisine and culinary cultures. I think Germans and other northern Europeans just don’t care that much about food and have a more utilitarian approach to food where it’s just fuel for work.

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    • Replies: @LondonBob
    The Puritans liked baked beans due to their plainness, I think Protestant Northen Europeans don't have the same need or desire for elaborate food, plus the wealth to afford meat and thus eschew peasant food.

    By the nineties food was at pretty high standard, both quality and standard, certainly in London. Of course I can't help thinking of all the kebab and pizza shops established by MENA immigrants in Sweden, disgusting.
    , @Flip
    I joke that my ancestors left Germany for America because they didn't like the food.
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  46. @JohnnyWalker123
    Didn't someone recently claim that France's World Cup victory is proof of the benefits of mass migration?

    The sad thing is that a large fraction of the public (in America and apparently also in France) probably wouldn't mind inviting in a horrendous migrant group as long as it boosted their sportsball team's chances of winning the "Big Game."

    By the way, here's the trailer for a movie called "Big Fan."

    If you want to understand the mind of the average American man, I highly recommend watching the trailer. This trailer is a very accurate description of how the average American male thinks and behaves. Once you watch this trailer, you'll have a better understanding of why this country is in so much trouble. You'll also get a glimpse into why so many Whites are in awe of Blacks.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzQKeqMogh8

    And that’s a Giants’ fan? They’re one of the few NFL teams who didn’t throw their dignity down the cheerleaders’ bidet. And their logo is one of the least violent.

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  47. Alfa158 says:
    @Mungerite
    Weird how Japan manages to do just about every cuisine in the world worth doing almost perfectly with barely any immigration.

    Japan has more Michelin starred restaurants than any other country, including France. You can find a restaurant, of any ethnicity, in Japan that will be at least as good as any in the country of origin. I remember once stopping in a Viennese pastry shop in Tokyo to get a pastry to go. The only difference in that pastry from any I’ve had in Vienna, is that the Japanese server carefully placed my pastry in a little cardboard box, added a piece of dry ice to keep it cool during my trip home, and closed it up with a gift ribbon and bow. All that for one cream eclair.

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  48. donut says:

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  49. Peasant says:

    Britain’s most popular fast food was fish and chips. Some say it was a Jewish invention others say it started when the railways meant that fish could be delivered to the cities fresh (in the days before reliable refrigeration) to go alongside the traitional poor peoples food which was fried potatoes (eventually fried fish replaced pigs feet as the classic accompaniment to fried potatoes for the poor).

    I well remember when before eu fishing regulations (impossible quotas, no attempt to stop Chinese factory vessels over-fishing you get the idea) jacked the price up so high (fried cod has become-get this: a delicacey- a special treat!) that every friday people had a ‘fish supper’ and there were long qeues at the chip shop. This was a remnant of the Catholic middle ages in England when you were not allowed to eat meat so you had fish.

    Now Britain’s most popular fast food is Indian take away. First of all most Indian takeaways in England are owned by Pakistanis and staffed by people from Bangladesh. Actual Indians have their own vegetarian establishments some of which are award winning. As for the idea that Britain is being culturally enriched by authentic foreign cuisine that is just laughable. ALL Indian takeaway food is specially adapted to Westerners tastes and always has been even in the fancier restaurants that claim to be more authentic. Things like dishes and menus with vastly more meat than is usual, spice combinations that you will never see in India or the subcontinent generally as well as strange uses of clarified butter (Ghee). If you go to the subcontinent there is no such thing as chicken tikka (there is chicken cooked on a tandoor-a clay oven- but the actual tikka recipie is unknown; the closest thing they have is butter chicken) and balti dishes are unknown. Balti is one of the most common takeout curry recipies in Britain. It literally means bucket in one of the Indian languages (the idea that you put all of the ingredients for the sauce in one pot and prepare it in your establishment en masse). Balti flavour is known only in western Europe and was deliberately invented to appeal to westerners tastes.

    As for food from the subcontient being authentic etc it is all just nonsense. The most popular individual dish is chicken tikka massala (basically chicken marinated in spiced yoghurt, then cooked on a clay oven and then coated in a mildy spiced yoghurt sauce). All Indian takeaways offer it. A few years ago a survey was done and it was found that the only common ingredient in the various recipies was chicken. Authentic it is not!

    British food may not have been all that good (britain was the first country to industrialise and so therefore cut itself off in many ways from its culinary rural past) but the traditional fish and chip shops and working mans cafes (to Americans-a diner) serving the full English breakfast were head and shoulders in terms of what is on offer today. Basically all takeout food is Halal as not only are most takeaways owned by Muslims (Pakistanis and others have networks whereby the capital risks involved in investing in new restaurants/takeouts are shared-how do they make a profit? Illegal immigration and tax evasion. I actually lived near two Indian take aways doors apart that were owned by different branches of the same extended family) but larger chains (Subway etc) are certified Halal. This food is often of poor quality (tumbled chicken-rotten chicken that is freshened up by rincing in water with a type of food dye and cannot be detected by the naked eye) prepared by Bangladeshis with an iq of 75 and served up by people who know that if they are closed by the health inspector the restaurant will just pass on to a member of the same extended family or at least of the same ethnic group with the same informal lending networks/ capital backing them.

    Britain has not been enriched by this trash- far from it it has actually been impoverished by it. 95% of ethnic food outlets are awful. It is very common for people in England when they find a good fish and chip shop to go out of thier way to eat there and pay over the odds to do so.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    We have disgusting all you can eat Indian buffets in America. Most Asian and Mexican food is what I call low value. A big pile of rice beans or noodles vegetables and tiny little shreds of meat.

    I really try not to eat away from home because the food industry from farms to restaurants are the enemy of Whites and the biggest importers of non White immigrants.
    , @LondonBob
    Indian food is seen as unhealthy and is nowhere near as popular as it was, the sushi craze is worldwide.
    , @Thud
    Youngsters and drunks eat this crap, nobody else I know does, I've never eaten in an Indian restaurant as English food in all its many guises suffices.
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  50. Jack D says:
    @stillCARealist
    Are you a Brit?

    We visited London in 2016 and ate in a pub, of which there seem to be thousands to choose from. Gotta have fish and chips! Well, all that new foodie influence and my spouse suffered through a bland and greasy meal. The "pint" was so big I guess the point was to make one drunk enough not to notice the yuckiness of the food.

    The “pint” was so big

    Any other complaints? An “imperial” (British) pint is around 20% larger than a US pint – to me that’s a good thing.

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  51. Peasant says:

    ‘A decade had passed before I returned to London and discovered that I’d missed the revolution…. What was once a sallow and predictable dining experience is now salubrious and full of surprises, befitting a metropolis of such diversity and ingenuity.’

    Trust me I was here and in a similar business to the restaurant industry for a little while. There was no such food revolution it is just rewriting history to Justify the migrant invasion. Most ethnic restaurants here are crap and it is a very common thing for Whites to do ethnic cuisine better than its originators.

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    • Replies: @Stealth
    Most ethnic restaurants here are crap and it is a very common thing for Whites to do ethnic cuisine better than its originators.

    Before "authentic" Tex-Mex restaurants were ubiquitous in the United States, quite a few restaurants operated by American whites served their own versions of Mexican cuisine. It was different, but in many ways better, and I miss it.
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  52. Mungerite says:

    Separately, a frequent contributor to the Travel column who can’t get his Mayfair/Mayfield straight is a somewhat dubious source, albeit probably about the right level for the NYT. Not that the dead horse needed any more beating.

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  53. Peasant says:
    @Lot
    An average bowl of pho tastes better than every single Indian dish I have ever had.

    In India's defense, the food would probably be better if the French had colonized them.

    ‘In India’s defense, the food would probably be better if the French had colonized them.’

    Pondicherry

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  54. There’s got to be a compromise somewhere between boiled mutton and broiled dog.

    (Wok, wok, wok…)

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    • LOL: Dtbb
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  55. countenance says: • Website

    But wait, I thought “because restaurants” was so last current year. This is this current year, when it’s “because soccer.”

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  56. pyrrhus says:
    @istevefan
    So food it is. You know a guy's got nothing when he resorts to food as his argument for open borders. It's become the equivalent of using the Nazi or racist label when losing a debate.

    BTW - we need to bring up Japan more and more. As others have pointed out, Japan has great food from around the world without having invited the world. They are Rick Bayless on steroids.

    But the food would have rotted in the kitchens without the Pakis!

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  57. pyrrhus says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    From that link:

    "This government has always stood for law and order and to tackle violent crime effectively, robust legislation and powerful law enforcement must be in place," said home secretary Amber Rudd.

     

    Criminals are shivering in their knickers because someone named "Amber" is on their trail. Is this real life, or a Warner Brothers cartoon?

    Amber is talking about thought crimes, especially posts on the internet that aren’t PC…It takes a lot of officers to watch Facebook all day…

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Amber is talking about thought crimes, especially posts on the internet that aren’t PC…It takes a lot of officers to watch Facebook all day…
     
    They needn't bother here. The SPLC performs that service. Probably at minimum wage.

    Religious haredi women are exempt from the Israeli draft, and it's mostly on the honor system. Of course, some cheat. So the IDF was monitoring Facebook and other social accounts to catch these poseuses posing in front of shellfish restaurants.

    "You're in the Army now!"
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  58. They wouldn’t be restaurants; they’d be supper rooms.

    They wouldn’t have menu; they’d have Bills of Fare.

    Harvey’s of Bristol, the wine company, still has a restaurant in the old harbour that uses such terms and serves only British dishes. Aylesbury Duck anyone? Langham’s in London is similar, steak & kidney pie and so forth. Jellied eels too. Cegin Cymraeg in Cardiff will serve you laverbread (seaweed).

    The only foreigners who have really added to British Cuisine are Italians.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    It wasn't economical but I'd wager the price of the meal that this restaurant showcased traditional British cuisine as the equal to anywhere in the world.

    https://www.dinnerbyheston.co.uk/menus
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  59. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @DFH
    How many girls being raped by Pakistanis is nice food worth? 10? 100? 10,000?

    Please note that we do not have to choose one to get the other. That’s NYT thinking, though of course they don’t say it. Further, please note that they consider enslavement of white children to be a feature, not a bug, of their program.

    Finally, it requires–at most–thousands of migrants to get whatever culinary benefits they’re imagining, not the tens of millions we now have in the USA, for instance.

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  60. @stillCARealist
    Are you a Brit?

    We visited London in 2016 and ate in a pub, of which there seem to be thousands to choose from. Gotta have fish and chips! Well, all that new foodie influence and my spouse suffered through a bland and greasy meal. The "pint" was so big I guess the point was to make one drunk enough not to notice the yuckiness of the food.

    We visited London in 2016 and ate in a pub, of which there seem to be thousands to choose from. Gotta have fish and chips!

    Sorry, can’t resist:

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  61. countenance says: • Website

    Cookbooks are rotting in the fields.

    Soccer fields are rotting in the fields. (Er, that one doesn’t sound quite right)

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  62. Anon[187] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    WWF or World War Food?

    Germans shouldn’t have bothered with armored tanks. They should come with tanks of beer.

    “Yeah, Russians, let us take over because we will sell you beer and pretzels.”

    Because, of course, a nation can’t have beer unless it is taken over by Germans.

    Whoever heard of beer in Vietnam?

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  63. I read your subsequent post, Steve, on the run-over alien delivery boy, before this one. I hope you don’t mind if I put my The Stupidity of the Foodies link here again. It was kind of a rant, but I made the same point, with less witty sarcasm. The comments here say it all well too (just in the middle of them right now).

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  64. Clyde says:

    I have never eaten mutton, though I would like to try. You just don’t see it here in the US and I doubt you find much in the UK either. My understanding is that mutton is older so tougher than lamb. Everyone gets spoiled these days with nice tender lamb chops and shanks. But in an England of years past they would take mutton and simmer it for hours to tenderize it. The title here is BS anyway. You don’t boil meats, you simmer them when you braise them. Braising being cooking in water rather than roasting, frying etc.
    If you are more curious about what braising means I see it has a wikipedia entry.

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    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    I have never eaten mutton, though I would like to try. You just don’t see it here in the US and I doubt you find much in the UK either.
     
    I ate plenty of it during my four years in North Africa.

    Totally overrated by the locals, even with couscous and the, "special sauce."

    The 'roo I ate straight off the barbie at the hostel in Perth, WA was far better.
    , @Graham
    I was brought up in the UK in the 60s. Never saw mutton in a shop or in anyone's house and never had it at home. A few years ago old Jug Ears (aka the Prince of Wales) made a plea for its revival. Nobody bothered.

    Favourite lamb recipe: shanks casseroled with celery, onion, garlic, carrot, plum tomatoes, anchovies, cumin, herbs, etc.
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  65. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    Indian food is overrated. Every single type of SE Asian curry I have tried is better than Indian types.

    Who have provided the world with more tasty dishes: the 68 million French, 68 million Thais, or the combined 2.5 billion Africans and South Asians?

    It’s just a matter of taste, no? Thai food has coconut and very fragrant flavors. Lots of people prefer South Asian food, which includes meat heavy Pakistani and northern Indian food to vegetarian South Indian food, to Thai and SE Asian food.

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  66. J1234 says:

    When I have Indian food, I think, “this is good,” but the experience never leaves me wanting to have Indian food again in six weeks or six months (or even six years) like Italian food, BBQ, burgers, Chinese (sort of) or Mexican food does. Apparently I’m not alone in the US.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/04/why-delicious-indian-food-is-surprisingly-unpopular-in-the-u-s/?utm_term=.2c56f7fd62e6

    There are, after all, more than 40,000 Chinese restaurants around the country, and roughly the same number of Mexican restaurants, but only about 5,000 Indian restaurants, according to [Krishnendu] Ray. Population accounts for some, but not all, of this. Even compared to Thai food, for example, interest in Indian cuisine is comparatively muted. In New York City, where there are roughly 20 times as many Indians as Thais, there are approximately the same number of restaurants that serve each cuisine.

    The main problem, according to Ray, who says he has spoken with Meyer several times since Tabla’s closing, is that people just didn’t have the same allegiance to Indian cuisine as they did to others. When there was a downturn in the economy, especially in the years following the recession, people became much more judicious about when and how they went out to eat.

    And Indian restaurants took a good deal of the brunt. It’s unclear how many restaurants were forced to close, but Ray believes the number is significant.

    “No one would spend money on Indian food, especially not expensive Indian food,” said Ray. “That basically shows the global hierarchy of taste. Indian food just isn’t as desirable as other foods, so people would rather pay for something else that they want more.”

    Sort of like French food, Indian food is something the experts tell you you should like. And that’s the approach the WaPo article takes. As far as English food, I’ve always thought Cornish Pasties were good, especially on cold days.

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    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    Indian food is too heavy, that's why. Doesn't sit well in the stomach unless you use very small amounts of curry/meat with the rice.
    , @Achmed E. Newman

    There are, after all, more than 40,000 Chinese restaurants around the country,...
     
    Multiply that by ~ 10 and you can get just a lowball number on illegal alien Chinese (just the ones that are NOT in the Chinatowns).

    ... and roughly the same number of Mexican restaurants, but only about 5,000 Indian restaurants, ...
     
    Oh, in other words, we need to up the number of dot-Indian illegal aliens, not counting the 10's of thousands of motels and blueberry squishy joints.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Indian buffets are often good, but they probably cannibalize business. Why pay >$20 for an entree at dinner when you can eat as much as you want of a half dozen varieties, plus bread and desert, for ~$15 at lunch? And water goes well with Indian food, so you're probably not spending money on a beverage at lunch either.
    , @Tyrion 2
    The real story of the last 10 years in British high street cuisine has been the decline and overshadowing of Indian restaurants in favour of Thai and, in the 20 years before that, Chinese.
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  67. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    Meanwhile, in this timeline, British restaurateur Gordon Ramsey’s new show will feature him going around the world and, Bobby Flay-style, trying to show locals he can cook their one foods better than them.

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  68. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    I ate at an Indian restaurant in London in 1965 when I was six.

    Most pubs in England and Ireland seem to have the same or very similar menus. They seem to have standardized fare supplied by the same few suppliers. Kind of like Chinese restaurants. Fish and chips, some kind of Shepherd’s pie thing, burgers and fries, full English or Irish breakfast, etc. And a lot of them will also have a curry dish. Even random pubs in the middle of nowhere in rural Ireland will have a curry dish along with traditional pub fare.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    Don't forget the lasagna.
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  69. @Lot
    Indian food is overrated. Every single type of SE Asian curry I have tried is better than Indian types.

    Who have provided the world with more tasty dishes: the 68 million French, 68 million Thais, or the combined 2.5 billion Africans and South Asians?

    Who have provided the world with more tasty dishes: the 68 million French, 68 million Thais, or the combined 2.5 billion Africans and South Asians?

    Africans fed hundreds according to this article: https://nypost.com/2017/08/22/hundreds-confess-to-eating-human-flesh-in-south-africa/

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  70. moshe says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Didn't someone recently claim that France's World Cup victory is proof of the benefits of mass migration?

    The sad thing is that a large fraction of the public (in America and apparently also in France) probably wouldn't mind inviting in a horrendous migrant group as long as it boosted their sportsball team's chances of winning the "Big Game."

    By the way, here's the trailer for a movie called "Big Fan."

    If you want to understand the mind of the average American man, I highly recommend watching the trailer. This trailer is a very accurate description of how the average American male thinks and behaves. Once you watch this trailer, you'll have a better understanding of why this country is in so much trouble. You'll also get a glimpse into why so many Whites are in awe of Blacks.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzQKeqMogh8

    I never understood sports fans.

    I guess I’m kind of autistic when it comes to sports fans. I can understand them intellectually but never caught whatever fever it is that they have.

    Thanks to allah the merciful I’m living a rather varied life so I’ve come across all sorts of people and situations and had ample opportunity to catch the sports bug but never have – despite betting tens of thousands of OPM on sports games (I took a commission on wins) and sneaking onto the final game of the World Cup in maracaña (where I bellowed “Deutschland unter alles!” to the paying customers).

    I *have* however gained an appreciation for Blacks. To my mind they are god’s chosen people. We’re talking averages of course, but pound for pound blacks are superior to all of the other races of man. Everyone else is walking around with a stick up his ass but like madonna sang 40 years ago, “blacks just wanna have fu-un. O-oh blacks just wanna have fun”.

    I recall steve mentioning patton oswald in some positive context at some point (did he actually tweer-quote steve or something?) but the guy just *looks* like the sort of thing Mother Nature gave birth to at the high school prom and left in a dumpster.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    like madonna sang 40 years ago, “blacks just wanna have fu-un. O-oh blacks just wanna have fun”.
     
    I think that was Cyndi Lauper.
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  71. moshe says:
    @Lot
    An average bowl of pho tastes better than every single Indian dish I have ever had.

    In India's defense, the food would probably be better if the French had colonized them.

    German cuisine can only benefit from diversity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    Traditional German cuisine is great.
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  72. @Mungerite
    Weird how Japan manages to do just about every cuisine in the world worth doing almost perfectly with barely any immigration.

    Weird how Japan manages to do just about every cuisine in the world worth doing almost perfectly with barely any immigration.

    Just this. Japan (and Hong Kong and Bangkok and pretty much every big Asian city these days) has wonderful food, and you can find pretty much any cuisine you want.

    There’s a building near my church in HK that has about 20 floors, with restaurants on most of the floors. Just in that single (smallish by HK standards) building you can find Chinese food (naturally), Japanese (several options), Korean, Greek, Spanish, Italian, a retro-50s diner-style joint — you get the point.

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  73. @J1234
    When I have Indian food, I think, "this is good," but the experience never leaves me wanting to have Indian food again in six weeks or six months (or even six years) like Italian food, BBQ, burgers, Chinese (sort of) or Mexican food does. Apparently I'm not alone in the US.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/04/why-delicious-indian-food-is-surprisingly-unpopular-in-the-u-s/?utm_term=.2c56f7fd62e6


    There are, after all, more than 40,000 Chinese restaurants around the country, and roughly the same number of Mexican restaurants, but only about 5,000 Indian restaurants, according to [Krishnendu] Ray. Population accounts for some, but not all, of this. Even compared to Thai food, for example, interest in Indian cuisine is comparatively muted. In New York City, where there are roughly 20 times as many Indians as Thais, there are approximately the same number of restaurants that serve each cuisine.
     


    The main problem, according to Ray, who says he has spoken with Meyer several times since Tabla's closing, is that people just didn't have the same allegiance to Indian cuisine as they did to others. When there was a downturn in the economy, especially in the years following the recession, people became much more judicious about when and how they went out to eat.

    And Indian restaurants took a good deal of the brunt. It's unclear how many restaurants were forced to close, but Ray believes the number is significant.

    "No one would spend money on Indian food, especially not expensive Indian food," said Ray. "That basically shows the global hierarchy of taste. Indian food just isn't as desirable as other foods, so people would rather pay for something else that they want more."
     

    Sort of like French food, Indian food is something the experts tell you you should like. And that's the approach the WaPo article takes. As far as English food, I've always thought Cornish Pasties were good, especially on cold days.

    Indian food is too heavy, that’s why. Doesn’t sit well in the stomach unless you use very small amounts of curry/meat with the rice.

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  74. @JohnnyWalker123
    What the pho?

    What the pho?

    There’s a restaurant up the street from me called just that. Haven’t tried it yet, but it looks pretty good.

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  75. How many Clitteri did it cost UK to have “exotic” cuisine?
    But aren’t certain dishes by Gordon Ramsay
    Marco Pierre White, and Especially HESTON “ SNAIL PORRIDGE AND BACON N EGGS ICECREAM (!?!) BLUMENTHAL.

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  76. @Anonymous
    Most pubs in England and Ireland seem to have the same or very similar menus. They seem to have standardized fare supplied by the same few suppliers. Kind of like Chinese restaurants. Fish and chips, some kind of Shepherd's pie thing, burgers and fries, full English or Irish breakfast, etc. And a lot of them will also have a curry dish. Even random pubs in the middle of nowhere in rural Ireland will have a curry dish along with traditional pub fare.

    Don’t forget the lasagna.

    Read More
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  77. Esau trading his birthright for a bowl of pottage.

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  78. @miss marple
    Robert Draper should avoid putting his 2¢ in on subjects he doesn't understand. Immigrants and their cuisine have been a feature of London for decades if not generations. Brexit is about national sovereignty and trade deals and the UK making its own immigration policies not NK style isolationism.

    A guide to fine dining in London was published in 1815.

    https://www.amazon.com/Epicures-Almanack-Drinking-Original-Guidebook/dp/0712358617

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  79. Old fogey says:
    @Anon
    It might be worth asking some actual Londoners when nice restaurants stopped serving "boiled mutton". My guess would be the 18th century.

    It would be a real pity if no London restaurants were to serve well-made stewed lamb with leeks, turnips and other traditional English vegetables, wouldn’t it? Or does just calling it “mutton” put everyone off their food nowadays?

    By the way, why don’t we find pork chops and sauerkraut on our menus any more? Remember ham with pineapple? Mashed potatoes? I took a 90-year-old friend to dinner the other night and she was thoroughly disgusted to find that the menu featured more quesadillas, tostadas and “wraps” than anything she could easily recognize. And we had especially chosen to take her to an up-scale diner to make things as nice as possible for her. You know, something like the good old times. . .

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    • Replies: @Stealth
    I see I'm not the only one, after all. I'm sure good food is served in Mexico, China, etc., but their diaspora restaurants serve nothing but junk food, and I think it's sad that our traditional cuisine is being crowded out by this crap.
    , @Anonymous

    By the way, why don’t we find pork chops and sauerkraut on our menus any more? Remember ham with pineapple? Mashed potatoes? I took a 90-year-old friend to dinner the other night and she was thoroughly disgusted to find that the menu featured more quesadillas, tostadas and “wraps” than anything she could easily recognize.
     
    Basically because German restaurants have declined significantly:

    "‘Grandma’s food’: How changing tastes are killing German restaurants"

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/grandmas-food-how-changing-tastes-are-killing-german-restaurants/2018/03/19/de4c4994-0b93-11e8-8b0d-891602206fb7_story.html

    When you think of the quintessential German restaurant in the United States, you’re thinking of a place like Karl Ratzsch. Ever since it was founded by German immigrants in 1904, it had a menu full of schnitzel, spaetzle and hearty Bavarian staples. The interior was dark wood, with German coats of arms, hand-painted beer steins, a beautiful Bavarian cuckoo clock and servers in dirndls. The place was a Milwaukee institution: Frank Lloyd Wright, Liberace and President Nixon dined there. Karl Ratzsch’s was handed down through generations, and reached such acclaim that in 1980, members of the Ratzsch family were invited to a state dinner with President Jimmy Carter and the chancellor of West Germany, Helmut Schmidt.

    It didn’t last. In 1993, Karl Ratzsch III was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, with a suicide note left among the mounting bills. The restaurant stopped serving lunch for a period in 1995 because of dwindling customers. In 2003, the family sold it to employees. When it appeared the restaurant would close, those employees sold it to chef Thomas Hauck.

    When he took over in 2016, the restaurant was filthy and not up to code. It had become “knicknacky,” he said, but not in a charming way. He counted 400 teddy bears, all covered in grime, plus Christmas decorations that had stayed up for years.

    He was convinced that if he could just clean the place up and freshen up the menu, he’d bring in a new crowd. The regulars — people who had frequented the restaurant in its heyday — “were dying, literally.”

    “I thought there would be a pride in the place,” he said. “Like, your parents loved it, you should see why you’ll love it, too.” He poured $300,000 into the renovation.

    He did not recoup his investment. The regulars accused him of destroying the restaurant. Young people checked it out but didn’t come back, opting instead for ramen and Korean tacos and the kind of bright, casual spots where all of the servers look like models and avocado toast is on the menu. Karl Ratzsch closed last year.

    “It’s a German restaurant that’s 114 years old,” Hauck said. “It’s not what the trend is; it’s just not.”
     
    , @S. Anonyia
    Real German food is good.

    But 1950s style filler like ham/pineapple and mashed potatoes are absolutely disgusting. People only ate that sort of stuff because it was convenient at the time.

    The best traditional foods in the Anglosphere are in the southern U.S.

    Comfort food without being disgusting. Not coincidental that southern-inspired restaurants are popular all over.
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  80. Lurker says:
    @Mr. Anon

    NYT: If Brexit Had Come 10 Years Ago, Today's London Restaurants Would Serve Mostly Porridge and Boiled Mutton
     
    Instead they now serve kebabs and fifteen year old white girls.
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  81. @Lot
    Indian food is overrated. Every single type of SE Asian curry I have tried is better than Indian types.

    Who have provided the world with more tasty dishes: the 68 million French, 68 million Thais, or the combined 2.5 billion Africans and South Asians?

    Who have provided the world with more tasty dishes:

    Ray Kroc. He’s provided Billions and Billions!

    (I’m pretty serious. If it weren’t for all the sat-fat and salt, I’d eat that type of stuff 2 meals a day.)

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  82. Anon[882] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mungerite
    Weird how Japan manages to do just about every cuisine in the world worth doing almost perfectly with barely any immigration.

    Japan can’t do Mexican. There are a lot of Indian restaurants, however, but they are mostly operated by … wait for it … immigrants, from Nepal for the most part.

    On the other hand, native Japanese bakers and pastry chefs are legion, and many have studied and worked in France. The pastries are toned down in sweetness for the local market in many cases. There are many Italian restaurants whose menu has not been filtered through the super meaty, cheesy, fatty Italiana-American filter, with native Japanese chefs who have worked in Italy. And boutique hamburger shops are having a heyday.

    There is decent Chinese and Taiwanese food, along with Japanese-Chinese, called Chuuka, but there you see a lot of … immigrants. Korean places tend to have Koreans working there.

    I think the difference is that if you are a skilled chef or cook willing to learn Japanese and wanting to set up a decent, financially solvent ethnic restaurant, you are welcome, but if you want to be on public aid and bring in your whole deadbeat family, you aren’t. If you are a black African, but are O.K. with working your ass off in construction, you can overstay your tourist visa and we’ll look the other way, but since you’re illegal I wouldn’t make long-term plans.

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    • Replies: @White Guy In Japan
    Many Japanese don't like Mexican food. Too greasy and spicy. Besides, Japan has plenty of Chinese restaurants.
    , @Mungerite
    Agree re: Mexican in Japan, which was part of the reason for the partial disclaimer (cuisines worth doing) in my post.

    I’ll concede that for some reason, Chinese in Japan really isn’t as good as it is in most of Southeast Asia, or London, which is curious since they are clearly able to do French/Italian better. My somewhat heretical opinion is that good Chinese is actually more complex/finicky/precise/ingredient-driven than both (certainly Italian).
    , @Chrisnonymous
    I think your observations are based on Tokyo. I live in the "bread capital" of Japan, but the bakeries here are sub-par. I have found only 1 that can make a decent French baguette. Most of the bread is too sweet and soft, while the pastries, paradoxically and as you mention, are not sweet enough. And edible rye? Nowhere.

    Also, while there is decent Indian food, most of it is crap.
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  83. @Hank Yobo
    Britain, historically, took pride in its agricultural self-sufficiency while European rivals--like the Frogs--had to eat . . . frogs and other associated delicacies to prevent starvation. "Beef and beer" vs. nouvelle cuisine. Lord Horatio Nelson would be proud of men? like Robert Draper.

    I can handle a plate of frog legs now and then, so long as the joint is clean enough to, for example, keep the snails off the food:

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    • Replies: @Hank Yobo
    And Nelson would have admired the cut of Bernadette Peters' jib.
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  84. @Clyde
    I have never eaten mutton, though I would like to try. You just don't see it here in the US and I doubt you find much in the UK either. My understanding is that mutton is older so tougher than lamb. Everyone gets spoiled these days with nice tender lamb chops and shanks. But in an England of years past they would take mutton and simmer it for hours to tenderize it. The title here is BS anyway. You don't boil meats, you simmer them when you braise them. Braising being cooking in water rather than roasting, frying etc.
    If you are more curious about what braising means I see it has a wikipedia entry.

    I have never eaten mutton, though I would like to try. You just don’t see it here in the US and I doubt you find much in the UK either.

    I ate plenty of it during my four years in North Africa.

    Totally overrated by the locals, even with couscous and the, “special sauce.”

    The ‘roo I ate straight off the barbie at the hostel in Perth, WA was far better.

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    • Replies: @clyde
    Was the mutton tough and gamey? This is the rap against it. Lamb is too "gamey" (lol) for some people. They should stick with oatmeal.
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  85. @JohnnyWalker123
    Didn't someone recently claim that France's World Cup victory is proof of the benefits of mass migration?

    The sad thing is that a large fraction of the public (in America and apparently also in France) probably wouldn't mind inviting in a horrendous migrant group as long as it boosted their sportsball team's chances of winning the "Big Game."

    By the way, here's the trailer for a movie called "Big Fan."

    If you want to understand the mind of the average American man, I highly recommend watching the trailer. This trailer is a very accurate description of how the average American male thinks and behaves. Once you watch this trailer, you'll have a better understanding of why this country is in so much trouble. You'll also get a glimpse into why so many Whites are in awe of Blacks.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzQKeqMogh8

    You’re (way) worse than Whiskey.

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  86. Stealth says:

    Has anyone else noticed that most foreign restaurants serve food that is little more than over-salted, greasy heart attack fuel? Who in the hell would want to be tortured by being forced to eat Chinese, Thai or Indian food once a day for the rest of his or her life? I’ve gotten to where I dislike Tex-Mex for the same reason.

    I’d rather have traditional English food any day.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jim jones
    India is the Diabetes Capital of the World:

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/health-fitness/health-news/India-is-the-diabetes-capital-of-the-world/articleshow/50753461.cms
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  87. Stealth says:
    @Old fogey
    It would be a real pity if no London restaurants were to serve well-made stewed lamb with leeks, turnips and other traditional English vegetables, wouldn't it? Or does just calling it "mutton" put everyone off their food nowadays?

    By the way, why don't we find pork chops and sauerkraut on our menus any more? Remember ham with pineapple? Mashed potatoes? I took a 90-year-old friend to dinner the other night and she was thoroughly disgusted to find that the menu featured more quesadillas, tostadas and "wraps" than anything she could easily recognize. And we had especially chosen to take her to an up-scale diner to make things as nice as possible for her. You know, something like the good old times. . .

    I see I’m not the only one, after all. I’m sure good food is served in Mexico, China, etc., but their diaspora restaurants serve nothing but junk food, and I think it’s sad that our traditional cuisine is being crowded out by this crap.

    Read More
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  88. Stealth says:
    @Peasant
    'A decade had passed before I returned to London and discovered that I’d missed the revolution…. What was once a sallow and predictable dining experience is now salubrious and full of surprises, befitting a metropolis of such diversity and ingenuity.'

    Trust me I was here and in a similar business to the restaurant industry for a little while. There was no such food revolution it is just rewriting history to Justify the migrant invasion. Most ethnic restaurants here are crap and it is a very common thing for Whites to do ethnic cuisine better than its originators.

    Most ethnic restaurants here are crap and it is a very common thing for Whites to do ethnic cuisine better than its originators.

    Before “authentic” Tex-Mex restaurants were ubiquitous in the United States, quite a few restaurants operated by American whites served their own versions of Mexican cuisine. It was different, but in many ways better, and I miss it.

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  89. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @moshe
    I never understood sports fans.

    I guess I'm kind of autistic when it comes to sports fans. I can understand them intellectually but never caught whatever fever it is that they have.

    Thanks to allah the merciful I'm living a rather varied life so I've come across all sorts of people and situations and had ample opportunity to catch the sports bug but never have - despite betting tens of thousands of OPM on sports games (I took a commission on wins) and sneaking onto the final game of the World Cup in maracaña (where I bellowed "Deutschland unter alles!" to the paying customers).

    I *have* however gained an appreciation for Blacks. To my mind they are god's chosen people. We're talking averages of course, but pound for pound blacks are superior to all of the other races of man. Everyone else is walking around with a stick up his ass but like madonna sang 40 years ago, "blacks just wanna have fu-un. O-oh blacks just wanna have fun".

    I recall steve mentioning patton oswald in some positive context at some point (did he actually tweer-quote steve or something?) but the guy just *looks* like the sort of thing Mother Nature gave birth to at the high school prom and left in a dumpster.

    like madonna sang 40 years ago, “blacks just wanna have fu-un. O-oh blacks just wanna have fun”.

    I think that was Cyndi Lauper.

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  90. Saxon says:
    @miss marple
    Robert Draper should avoid putting his 2¢ in on subjects he doesn't understand. Immigrants and their cuisine have been a feature of London for decades if not generations. Brexit is about national sovereignty and trade deals and the UK making its own immigration policies not NK style isolationism.

    No, it was primarily about immigration and the fact that London is no longer an English city. Neither for that matter are Bradford, Manchester, and Birmingham. The fact that all of these other issues are connected to the demographic problems of too many foreigners crowding out the natives is just kind of how things go.

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  91. @Altai
    I love how they totally ignore the removal of the uniqueness of London with the displacement of it's indigenous population found nowhere else along with the total destruction of community and population of the city with endless depressed office commuters and massive inequality is totally overlooked. The city becoming overpopulated and a playground for oligarch developers and the main centre of dodgy money from all over the world doesn't register either. As a foreigner he doesn't understand how slowly it grinds people down to have to listen to loud and endless phone conversations in foreign languages on the bus or tube.

    Young people face a grim future and difficulty getting a home? Who cares? The tiny number of tedious soulless people whose hobby is 'food' have more places than ever to enjoy the fruits of overworked, underpaid Eastern European kitchen staff.

    I really think they don't understand how they sound like Kelly Osbourne talking about how it'll be the end of the world when one can't get illegal immigrant servants for untaxed below minimum wage. Very few people eat out on a regular basis and lots of people don't give a damn about food at all.

    I'd love for somebody to confront these people with the fact that the people you see in the newsreels from the Blitz? They're gone. Their descendants are gone, either through birth rate and generation time depression from competing with immigrants or through being displaced to Essex or elsewhere.

    Very few people eat out on a regular basis and lots of people don’t give a damn about food at all.

    I don’t live in England, Altai, so this is an American’s view, but, I disagree about the frequency of occurrence of eating out and who’s doing it. What I have seen is lots of young people who get the exotic food and fancy coffees. Keep in mind, lots of them work in the food/barista business themselves, and they spend all of their disposable income, it seems, on the same stuff. The money goes round and round with no savings and investment out of it.

    These are people who’d sneer at you as a cheapskate if you balk at buying a $5 hot chocolate that comes in a 10 oz mug, when you make about 4 x the income they do. That and the Big Fan trailer that Johnny Walker showed do represent a lot of America.

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  92. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Indian food is shit. So is Persian food. Med food is ok, it depends on what part of the Med we are talking about. I'll take boiled mutton any day of the week over whatever combination of mushed up beans, vegetables, herbs and dirt sun people cook up.

    My English two cents. Riding my bicycle through the English countryside I would eat supper at a country pub. There was always a dinner special which I always ordered along with a pint of beer, or two or three. So I’m eating a real turkey drumstick, real mashed potatoes, green beans–okay, maybe they were overdone, the way Mom cooked em, but so what?–and maybe a roll or slice of bread of some kind, locally baked or baked in the kitchen. Real food! Food that will propel me many miles tomorrow. And like you, I thought it was great.

    Where in America can you get a real turkey drumstick for your meal? Who bakes turkeys anymore in restaurants? As you say, I’ll take that any day of the week over couscous or hummus.

    Remember when Rumpole of Old Bailey said that the English had made two great contributions to civilization? The English breakfast and Common Law. I have a theory about that. The French guys in WW2 couldn’t fight worth a damn because they started the day with a croissant and a cup of coffee. The English, on the other hand, fortified with eggs, bacon, sausage, baked beans, greasy toast and a slice of tomato were fueled for a hard day’s slog.

    Course my theory is probably bull roar. I don’t know what the Germans ate.

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    • Replies: @Stealth

    Where in America can you get a real turkey drumstick for your meal? Who bakes turkeys anymore in restaurants?
     
    The South. One of my favorite convenience stores serves turkey legs.
    , @Anonymous
    There are still quality pubs with good solid food all over the English countryside. They tend to be outstandingly friendly and comfortable spots and many make more than a passing gesture toward modern cuisine as well. I know their days are numbered, though, because they're generally white af and we simply can't have that, or nice things in general any more. Sic transit

    http://images.archant.co.uk/polopoly_fs/1.3588227.1399392123!/image/793254937.jpg

    , @The Alarmist

    "Where in America can you get a real turkey drumstick for your meal? Who bakes turkeys anymore in restaurants?"
     
    One of my favourite lunchtime pleasures in NYC was from a deli that roasted a couple turkeys each day and would carve a few slices into a great sandwich. The drumstick was yours for the asking and a few bucks.
    , @clyde

    Where in America can you get a real turkey drumstick for your meal? Who bakes turkeys anymore in restaurants? As you say, I’ll take that any day of the week over couscous or hummus
     
    . There is a semi-gourmet supermarket near me that sells roasted turkey legs, takeout obviously. Delicious! My ultimate pot pie is with dark and white turkey meat. You need that dark meat but you never see dark meat in the common frozen chicken and turkey pot pies.
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    I'm on board with all of this - and I still eat bacon and eggs for breakfast most mornings, no bread.
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  93. @J1234
    When I have Indian food, I think, "this is good," but the experience never leaves me wanting to have Indian food again in six weeks or six months (or even six years) like Italian food, BBQ, burgers, Chinese (sort of) or Mexican food does. Apparently I'm not alone in the US.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/04/why-delicious-indian-food-is-surprisingly-unpopular-in-the-u-s/?utm_term=.2c56f7fd62e6


    There are, after all, more than 40,000 Chinese restaurants around the country, and roughly the same number of Mexican restaurants, but only about 5,000 Indian restaurants, according to [Krishnendu] Ray. Population accounts for some, but not all, of this. Even compared to Thai food, for example, interest in Indian cuisine is comparatively muted. In New York City, where there are roughly 20 times as many Indians as Thais, there are approximately the same number of restaurants that serve each cuisine.
     


    The main problem, according to Ray, who says he has spoken with Meyer several times since Tabla's closing, is that people just didn't have the same allegiance to Indian cuisine as they did to others. When there was a downturn in the economy, especially in the years following the recession, people became much more judicious about when and how they went out to eat.

    And Indian restaurants took a good deal of the brunt. It's unclear how many restaurants were forced to close, but Ray believes the number is significant.

    "No one would spend money on Indian food, especially not expensive Indian food," said Ray. "That basically shows the global hierarchy of taste. Indian food just isn't as desirable as other foods, so people would rather pay for something else that they want more."
     

    Sort of like French food, Indian food is something the experts tell you you should like. And that's the approach the WaPo article takes. As far as English food, I've always thought Cornish Pasties were good, especially on cold days.

    There are, after all, more than 40,000 Chinese restaurants around the country,…

    Multiply that by ~ 10 and you can get just a lowball number on illegal alien Chinese (just the ones that are NOT in the Chinatowns).

    … and roughly the same number of Mexican restaurants, but only about 5,000 Indian restaurants, …

    Oh, in other words, we need to up the number of dot-Indian illegal aliens, not counting the 10′s of thousands of motels and blueberry squishy joints.

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  94. @pyrrhus
    Amber is talking about thought crimes, especially posts on the internet that aren't PC...It takes a lot of officers to watch Facebook all day...

    Amber is talking about thought crimes, especially posts on the internet that aren’t PC…It takes a lot of officers to watch Facebook all day…

    They needn’t bother here. The SPLC performs that service. Probably at minimum wage.

    Religious haredi women are exempt from the Israeli draft, and it’s mostly on the honor system. Of course, some cheat. So the IDF was monitoring Facebook and other social accounts to catch these poseuses posing in front of shellfish restaurants.

    “You’re in the Army now!”

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  95. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @J1234
    When I have Indian food, I think, "this is good," but the experience never leaves me wanting to have Indian food again in six weeks or six months (or even six years) like Italian food, BBQ, burgers, Chinese (sort of) or Mexican food does. Apparently I'm not alone in the US.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/04/why-delicious-indian-food-is-surprisingly-unpopular-in-the-u-s/?utm_term=.2c56f7fd62e6


    There are, after all, more than 40,000 Chinese restaurants around the country, and roughly the same number of Mexican restaurants, but only about 5,000 Indian restaurants, according to [Krishnendu] Ray. Population accounts for some, but not all, of this. Even compared to Thai food, for example, interest in Indian cuisine is comparatively muted. In New York City, where there are roughly 20 times as many Indians as Thais, there are approximately the same number of restaurants that serve each cuisine.
     


    The main problem, according to Ray, who says he has spoken with Meyer several times since Tabla's closing, is that people just didn't have the same allegiance to Indian cuisine as they did to others. When there was a downturn in the economy, especially in the years following the recession, people became much more judicious about when and how they went out to eat.

    And Indian restaurants took a good deal of the brunt. It's unclear how many restaurants were forced to close, but Ray believes the number is significant.

    "No one would spend money on Indian food, especially not expensive Indian food," said Ray. "That basically shows the global hierarchy of taste. Indian food just isn't as desirable as other foods, so people would rather pay for something else that they want more."
     

    Sort of like French food, Indian food is something the experts tell you you should like. And that's the approach the WaPo article takes. As far as English food, I've always thought Cornish Pasties were good, especially on cold days.

    Indian buffets are often good, but they probably cannibalize business. Why pay >$20 for an entree at dinner when you can eat as much as you want of a half dozen varieties, plus bread and desert, for ~$15 at lunch? And water goes well with Indian food, so you’re probably not spending money on a beverage at lunch either.

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  96. @MG
    What do you mean by “Indian food”? The insipid, greasy gunk served in most Punjabi-cuisine restaurants that masquerades as Indian cuisine? There is no “Indian food.” Food from India, yes. Don’t judge “Indian food” by the mostly terrible restaurants in the West. The regional variety and subtlety of food in India are probably unrivaled. The “curry” you are used to is made with stale pre-packaged powders bought in Indian grocery stores here. Real ‘masalas’ are ground fresh. No Indian restaurant here serves fresh masala food.

    There is no “Indian food.” Food from India, yes. Don’t judge “Indian food” by the mostly terrible restaurants in the West. The regional variety and subtlety of food in India are probably unrivaled.

    This goes for every regional genre of food. You couldn’t do a NYC restaurant or a Chicago restaurant and capture the range and variety of food available in those cities and you can’t do it for a country either. Restaurants typically pick a menu of expected best-sellers. And all restaurants are going to make trade offs for convenience and practicality and cost efficiency.

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  97. Stealth says:
    @ThreeCranes
    My English two cents. Riding my bicycle through the English countryside I would eat supper at a country pub. There was always a dinner special which I always ordered along with a pint of beer, or two or three. So I'm eating a real turkey drumstick, real mashed potatoes, green beans--okay, maybe they were overdone, the way Mom cooked em, but so what?--and maybe a roll or slice of bread of some kind, locally baked or baked in the kitchen. Real food! Food that will propel me many miles tomorrow. And like you, I thought it was great.

    Where in America can you get a real turkey drumstick for your meal? Who bakes turkeys anymore in restaurants? As you say, I'll take that any day of the week over couscous or hummus.

    Remember when Rumpole of Old Bailey said that the English had made two great contributions to civilization? The English breakfast and Common Law. I have a theory about that. The French guys in WW2 couldn't fight worth a damn because they started the day with a croissant and a cup of coffee. The English, on the other hand, fortified with eggs, bacon, sausage, baked beans, greasy toast and a slice of tomato were fueled for a hard day's slog.

    Course my theory is probably bull roar. I don't know what the Germans ate.

    Where in America can you get a real turkey drumstick for your meal? Who bakes turkeys anymore in restaurants?

    The South. One of my favorite convenience stores serves turkey legs.

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  98. Tyrion 2 says:
    @miss marple
    Robert Draper should avoid putting his 2¢ in on subjects he doesn't understand. Immigrants and their cuisine have been a feature of London for decades if not generations. Brexit is about national sovereignty and trade deals and the UK making its own immigration policies not NK style isolationism.

    The article says it is about the food but the writer really seems to be thinking about the lovely low wages of the staff…

    As the BBC forlorned:

    A decade or so ago a curry chef would earn around £15,000 a year. Now, a restaurant has to pay almost double that as well as jumping a series of complex bureaucratic hurdles to persuade the Home Office to allow them to bring in a chef from abroad.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36378655

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    • Replies: @Anon
    There’s no one in Britain who can learn to mix spices, chop meat and vegetables stir it all around and boil rice?

    I know a pair of twins who learned to do it when they were 11. Of course they used curry powder from an Indian store.
    , @Anon
    Is £30,000 a year a living wage? Or will council housing, child benefit, wife’s seeking but never finding work benefit, and 4 grandparents old age benefit actually support the family?

    That’s how immigrant restaurant workers live in America. That’s how the poverty stricken Mexicans manage to send 20 billion dollars home to Mexico every year. It’s Mexico’s largest source of foreign currency bigger.
    , @Anonymous
    Yep.

    'Curry chefs'.

    Just what Britain needs to when the hi-tech export drive of the future.
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  99. Technology has arguably made larger advances in food taste and quality than ethnic diversity. Supply chain logistics such as shipping, packaging, storage, and inventory have all radically improved over the past several decades. The types of plastics we have to ship and preserve the freshness of food have radically improved. Certain pre-packaged washed greens and salads weren’t possible until recent plastics. Barcode scanners were introduced in the 1970′s and transformed grocery stores. The Internet also radically improved and transformed food in many ways. Internet grocery pickup/delivery options, Internet maps, yelp-style reviews, YouTube cooking shows, etc… Food is also cheaper: While people complain about the price of food, people today spend smaller portions of their take home pay on food than they did decades ago. Housing, OTOH, has gone up.

    The NYT author is also wrong to bash “Porridge”. “Porridge” is any oatmeal-like dish featuring a crushed and boiled grain or seed. Oatmeal is considered much healthier than most breads, rices, and noodles. You can also use different grains/seeds like quinoa, wheatberries, amaranth, teff, millet, sorghum, or farro to make healthy porridges. You can flavor with spices, berries, plant milks, sauces, and even greens and vegetables to make very healthy meals. I’d actually bet on a porridge resurgence.

    Next, grouping food by national identity is highly arbitrary and flexible. You could make awesome restaurants people love with classic English theming if people wanted to: watercress and turnips are considered English. Lots of teas are considered English. One could make health food porridges with English theming and they would sell.

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  100. Tyrion 2 says:
    @MG
    What do you mean by “Indian food”? The insipid, greasy gunk served in most Punjabi-cuisine restaurants that masquerades as Indian cuisine? There is no “Indian food.” Food from India, yes. Don’t judge “Indian food” by the mostly terrible restaurants in the West. The regional variety and subtlety of food in India are probably unrivaled. The “curry” you are used to is made with stale pre-packaged powders bought in Indian grocery stores here. Real ‘masalas’ are ground fresh. No Indian restaurant here serves fresh masala food.

    You could get a reasonably priced lunch menu at Tamarind. I assume their Michelin star meant they made their food fresh and not with a local grocery story bought paste…

    I still preferred my actually cheap local Thai.

    (Sadly, Tamarind are rennovating and will probably come back without the well-priced lunch.)

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  101. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @ThreeCranes
    My English two cents. Riding my bicycle through the English countryside I would eat supper at a country pub. There was always a dinner special which I always ordered along with a pint of beer, or two or three. So I'm eating a real turkey drumstick, real mashed potatoes, green beans--okay, maybe they were overdone, the way Mom cooked em, but so what?--and maybe a roll or slice of bread of some kind, locally baked or baked in the kitchen. Real food! Food that will propel me many miles tomorrow. And like you, I thought it was great.

    Where in America can you get a real turkey drumstick for your meal? Who bakes turkeys anymore in restaurants? As you say, I'll take that any day of the week over couscous or hummus.

    Remember when Rumpole of Old Bailey said that the English had made two great contributions to civilization? The English breakfast and Common Law. I have a theory about that. The French guys in WW2 couldn't fight worth a damn because they started the day with a croissant and a cup of coffee. The English, on the other hand, fortified with eggs, bacon, sausage, baked beans, greasy toast and a slice of tomato were fueled for a hard day's slog.

    Course my theory is probably bull roar. I don't know what the Germans ate.

    There are still quality pubs with good solid food all over the English countryside. They tend to be outstandingly friendly and comfortable spots and many make more than a passing gesture toward modern cuisine as well. I know their days are numbered, though, because they’re generally white af and we simply can’t have that, or nice things in general any more. Sic transit

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  102. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:

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  103. @Anon
    Japan can't do Mexican. There are a lot of Indian restaurants, however, but they are mostly operated by ... wait for it ... immigrants, from Nepal for the most part.

    On the other hand, native Japanese bakers and pastry chefs are legion, and many have studied and worked in France. The pastries are toned down in sweetness for the local market in many cases. There are many Italian restaurants whose menu has not been filtered through the super meaty, cheesy, fatty Italiana-American filter, with native Japanese chefs who have worked in Italy. And boutique hamburger shops are having a heyday.

    There is decent Chinese and Taiwanese food, along with Japanese-Chinese, called Chuuka, but there you see a lot of ... immigrants. Korean places tend to have Koreans working there.

    I think the difference is that if you are a skilled chef or cook willing to learn Japanese and wanting to set up a decent, financially solvent ethnic restaurant, you are welcome, but if you want to be on public aid and bring in your whole deadbeat family, you aren't. If you are a black African, but are O.K. with working your ass off in construction, you can overstay your tourist visa and we'll look the other way, but since you're illegal I wouldn't make long-term plans.

    Many Japanese don’t like Mexican food. Too greasy and spicy. Besides, Japan has plenty of Chinese restaurants.

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  104. Tyrion 2 says:
    @stillCARealist
    Are you a Brit?

    We visited London in 2016 and ate in a pub, of which there seem to be thousands to choose from. Gotta have fish and chips! Well, all that new foodie influence and my spouse suffered through a bland and greasy meal. The "pint" was so big I guess the point was to make one drunk enough not to notice the yuckiness of the food.

    Perfect. You ate at a bar where they serve microwave meals to tourists. Ask for a recommendation next time or use Google. You wouldn’t eat at that type of trap in your own city…

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    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    It was a big place, packed to the bleachers, and had a big crowd of young, well-dressed people drinking outside. The Bishop's something and something. There were a zillion places that looked just like it and I bet they're all using the same supplier. It was my only restaurant reference point, as all our other meals took place at the hotel or from convenience stores, and it let us down. My meal was yummy, as I recall, but I was bombed and bloated from the gigantic beer that I shouldn't have finished.
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  105. Mungerite says:
    @Anon
    Japan can't do Mexican. There are a lot of Indian restaurants, however, but they are mostly operated by ... wait for it ... immigrants, from Nepal for the most part.

    On the other hand, native Japanese bakers and pastry chefs are legion, and many have studied and worked in France. The pastries are toned down in sweetness for the local market in many cases. There are many Italian restaurants whose menu has not been filtered through the super meaty, cheesy, fatty Italiana-American filter, with native Japanese chefs who have worked in Italy. And boutique hamburger shops are having a heyday.

    There is decent Chinese and Taiwanese food, along with Japanese-Chinese, called Chuuka, but there you see a lot of ... immigrants. Korean places tend to have Koreans working there.

    I think the difference is that if you are a skilled chef or cook willing to learn Japanese and wanting to set up a decent, financially solvent ethnic restaurant, you are welcome, but if you want to be on public aid and bring in your whole deadbeat family, you aren't. If you are a black African, but are O.K. with working your ass off in construction, you can overstay your tourist visa and we'll look the other way, but since you're illegal I wouldn't make long-term plans.

    Agree re: Mexican in Japan, which was part of the reason for the partial disclaimer (cuisines worth doing) in my post.

    I’ll concede that for some reason, Chinese in Japan really isn’t as good as it is in most of Southeast Asia, or London, which is curious since they are clearly able to do French/Italian better. My somewhat heretical opinion is that good Chinese is actually more complex/finicky/precise/ingredient-driven than both (certainly Italian).

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    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    Really good Chinese food is indeed heavily ingredient-dependent, and I agree completely that it travels way worse than Italian.

    Chinese food in Japan is especially mediocre, as you and some other commenters have noted. I don't get that, either -- Japan has lots of good fresh ingredients available, but in my experience it doesn't seem to work.

    I remember reading somewhere that in WWII, the Germans were pretty good at placing spies in Allied countries, i.e. they were able to train up people who sounded fluent in English, French, etc., but they failed in passing off their operatives in the country whose language arguably is closest to their own, i.e. the Netherlands.

    Maybe there's some principle of proximity inhibiting the willingness to suppress one's own instincts and habits when trying to imitate.

    BTW, my impression is that Chinese people in Hong Kong also have little to no interest in Mexican food. There certainly aren't many Mexican places here.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    I agree with both your opinions re Chinese. Also, I found a decent Mexican place in Japan--homemade tortillas with ox tongue, etc.--just like the invaders used to make back home.

    In the US, we might describe Mexican as spicy, but the reality is that the entire cuisine is a gastronomic sledgehammer, heavy in flavors and textures eschewed by Japanese. But they can do it, as my little taco find proves, and do it without a Speedy Gonzalez ghetto.
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  106. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Philip Owen
    They wouldn't be restaurants; they'd be supper rooms.

    They wouldn't have menu; they'd have Bills of Fare.

    Harvey's of Bristol, the wine company, still has a restaurant in the old harbour that uses such terms and serves only British dishes. Aylesbury Duck anyone? Langham's in London is similar, steak & kidney pie and so forth. Jellied eels too. Cegin Cymraeg in Cardiff will serve you laverbread (seaweed).

    The only foreigners who have really added to British Cuisine are Italians.

    It wasn’t economical but I’d wager the price of the meal that this restaurant showcased traditional British cuisine as the equal to anywhere in the world.

    https://www.dinnerbyheston.co.uk/menus

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  107. Tyrion 2 says:
    @J1234
    When I have Indian food, I think, "this is good," but the experience never leaves me wanting to have Indian food again in six weeks or six months (or even six years) like Italian food, BBQ, burgers, Chinese (sort of) or Mexican food does. Apparently I'm not alone in the US.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/04/why-delicious-indian-food-is-surprisingly-unpopular-in-the-u-s/?utm_term=.2c56f7fd62e6


    There are, after all, more than 40,000 Chinese restaurants around the country, and roughly the same number of Mexican restaurants, but only about 5,000 Indian restaurants, according to [Krishnendu] Ray. Population accounts for some, but not all, of this. Even compared to Thai food, for example, interest in Indian cuisine is comparatively muted. In New York City, where there are roughly 20 times as many Indians as Thais, there are approximately the same number of restaurants that serve each cuisine.
     


    The main problem, according to Ray, who says he has spoken with Meyer several times since Tabla's closing, is that people just didn't have the same allegiance to Indian cuisine as they did to others. When there was a downturn in the economy, especially in the years following the recession, people became much more judicious about when and how they went out to eat.

    And Indian restaurants took a good deal of the brunt. It's unclear how many restaurants were forced to close, but Ray believes the number is significant.

    "No one would spend money on Indian food, especially not expensive Indian food," said Ray. "That basically shows the global hierarchy of taste. Indian food just isn't as desirable as other foods, so people would rather pay for something else that they want more."
     

    Sort of like French food, Indian food is something the experts tell you you should like. And that's the approach the WaPo article takes. As far as English food, I've always thought Cornish Pasties were good, especially on cold days.

    The real story of the last 10 years in British high street cuisine has been the decline and overshadowing of Indian restaurants in favour of Thai and, in the 20 years before that, Chinese.

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  108. jim jones says:
    @Stealth
    Has anyone else noticed that most foreign restaurants serve food that is little more than over-salted, greasy heart attack fuel? Who in the hell would want to be tortured by being forced to eat Chinese, Thai or Indian food once a day for the rest of his or her life? I've gotten to where I dislike Tex-Mex for the same reason.

    I'd rather have traditional English food any day.
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    • Replies: @Anon
    High carb low protein diets cause diabetes. High carb low protein is the essence of Mexican Asian and Indian food. And people wonder why the average American was slim to medium in 1970 and medium to obese 30 years later.

    If you crave salsa, chop up some celery onion and bell pepper. Mix them up with tomato juice and salsa to make a cold soup.

    Or put the salsa on a 2,500 calorie plate of rice beans fried tortillas cheese and 2 ounces of shredded baby food meat that’s been sitting in the fridge for a week.
    , @Anonymous
    Undoubtedly this is genetic in ultimate provenance.

    There seems to be an implication of this being a side effect of r/K selection in India, which has always been a densely populated/high competition nation.
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  109. Anonymous[788] • Disclaimer says:

    Yep.

    The Cafe Royal and Simpson’s Grill only set up for business after Ted Heath signed the Accession Document in 1973.

    - and that ‘Spaghetti House’ siege – why, that’s only false memory syndrome caused by watching too many Sweeney and Minder re-runs.

    Curiously, the London of 1970 did *not* have a hundred cheap and nasty Paki run Kentucky Fried Chicken clones on every High Street……but their were many an outlet selling that old British staple fish and chips. And the Cockneys had their jellied eels and liquor and ‘pie and mash’.
    Neither was the plethora of Paki run cardboard pizza establishments – with moped riding bonded serf running hot and cold at Sir’s beck and call.

    Read More
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  110. Anonymous[788] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    Indian food is overrated. Every single type of SE Asian curry I have tried is better than Indian types.

    Who have provided the world with more tasty dishes: the 68 million French, 68 million Thais, or the combined 2.5 billion Africans and South Asians?

    ……as that old Jim Davidson* joke goes ‘no wonder Gandhi wore a diaper’.

    *celebrated English ‘blue comic’.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TelfoedJohn
    *nappy
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  111. London 25 years ago was already as diverse in its restaurant offerings as Los Angeles or San Francisco. So an earlier Brexit would not have reduced the diversity of London’s food.

    Indian food is one of the world’s great cuisines and I do not understand why North Indian restaurants in particular have declined so much in the US. South Indian restaurants have not declined as much, I wonder if this is because of immigration patterns.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    The tourist downtown areas of San Francisco are full of nasty Indian restaurants. And cardboard artificial cheese pizza places run by Arabs.
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  112. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peasant
    Britain's most popular fast food was fish and chips. Some say it was a Jewish invention others say it started when the railways meant that fish could be delivered to the cities fresh (in the days before reliable refrigeration) to go alongside the traitional poor peoples food which was fried potatoes (eventually fried fish replaced pigs feet as the classic accompaniment to fried potatoes for the poor).

    I well remember when before eu fishing regulations (impossible quotas, no attempt to stop Chinese factory vessels over-fishing you get the idea) jacked the price up so high (fried cod has become-get this: a delicacey- a special treat!) that every friday people had a 'fish supper' and there were long qeues at the chip shop. This was a remnant of the Catholic middle ages in England when you were not allowed to eat meat so you had fish.

    Now Britain's most popular fast food is Indian take away. First of all most Indian takeaways in England are owned by Pakistanis and staffed by people from Bangladesh. Actual Indians have their own vegetarian establishments some of which are award winning. As for the idea that Britain is being culturally enriched by authentic foreign cuisine that is just laughable. ALL Indian takeaway food is specially adapted to Westerners tastes and always has been even in the fancier restaurants that claim to be more authentic. Things like dishes and menus with vastly more meat than is usual, spice combinations that you will never see in India or the subcontinent generally as well as strange uses of clarified butter (Ghee). If you go to the subcontinent there is no such thing as chicken tikka (there is chicken cooked on a tandoor-a clay oven- but the actual tikka recipie is unknown; the closest thing they have is butter chicken) and balti dishes are unknown. Balti is one of the most common takeout curry recipies in Britain. It literally means bucket in one of the Indian languages (the idea that you put all of the ingredients for the sauce in one pot and prepare it in your establishment en masse). Balti flavour is known only in western Europe and was deliberately invented to appeal to westerners tastes.

    As for food from the subcontient being authentic etc it is all just nonsense. The most popular individual dish is chicken tikka massala (basically chicken marinated in spiced yoghurt, then cooked on a clay oven and then coated in a mildy spiced yoghurt sauce). All Indian takeaways offer it. A few years ago a survey was done and it was found that the only common ingredient in the various recipies was chicken. Authentic it is not!

    British food may not have been all that good (britain was the first country to industrialise and so therefore cut itself off in many ways from its culinary rural past) but the traditional fish and chip shops and working mans cafes (to Americans-a diner) serving the full English breakfast were head and shoulders in terms of what is on offer today. Basically all takeout food is Halal as not only are most takeaways owned by Muslims (Pakistanis and others have networks whereby the capital risks involved in investing in new restaurants/takeouts are shared-how do they make a profit? Illegal immigration and tax evasion. I actually lived near two Indian take aways doors apart that were owned by different branches of the same extended family) but larger chains (Subway etc) are certified Halal. This food is often of poor quality (tumbled chicken-rotten chicken that is freshened up by rincing in water with a type of food dye and cannot be detected by the naked eye) prepared by Bangladeshis with an iq of 75 and served up by people who know that if they are closed by the health inspector the restaurant will just pass on to a member of the same extended family or at least of the same ethnic group with the same informal lending networks/ capital backing them.

    Britain has not been enriched by this trash- far from it it has actually been impoverished by it. 95% of ethnic food outlets are awful. It is very common for people in England when they find a good fish and chip shop to go out of thier way to eat there and pay over the odds to do so.

    We have disgusting all you can eat Indian buffets in America. Most Asian and Mexican food is what I call low value. A big pile of rice beans or noodles vegetables and tiny little shreds of meat.

    I really try not to eat away from home because the food industry from farms to restaurants are the enemy of Whites and the biggest importers of non White immigrants.

    Read More
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  113. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hare Krishna
    London 25 years ago was already as diverse in its restaurant offerings as Los Angeles or San Francisco. So an earlier Brexit would not have reduced the diversity of London's food.

    Indian food is one of the world's great cuisines and I do not understand why North Indian restaurants in particular have declined so much in the US. South Indian restaurants have not declined as much, I wonder if this is because of immigration patterns.

    The tourist downtown areas of San Francisco are full of nasty Indian restaurants. And cardboard artificial cheese pizza places run by Arabs.

    Read More
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  114. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    I like fish pie. It’s like scalloped potatoes with big chunks of fish and a few real tomatoe slices.

    Read More
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  115. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Old fogey
    It would be a real pity if no London restaurants were to serve well-made stewed lamb with leeks, turnips and other traditional English vegetables, wouldn't it? Or does just calling it "mutton" put everyone off their food nowadays?

    By the way, why don't we find pork chops and sauerkraut on our menus any more? Remember ham with pineapple? Mashed potatoes? I took a 90-year-old friend to dinner the other night and she was thoroughly disgusted to find that the menu featured more quesadillas, tostadas and "wraps" than anything she could easily recognize. And we had especially chosen to take her to an up-scale diner to make things as nice as possible for her. You know, something like the good old times. . .

    By the way, why don’t we find pork chops and sauerkraut on our menus any more? Remember ham with pineapple? Mashed potatoes? I took a 90-year-old friend to dinner the other night and she was thoroughly disgusted to find that the menu featured more quesadillas, tostadas and “wraps” than anything she could easily recognize.

    Basically because German restaurants have declined significantly:

    “‘Grandma’s food’: How changing tastes are killing German restaurants”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/grandmas-food-how-changing-tastes-are-killing-german-restaurants/2018/03/19/de4c4994-0b93-11e8-8b0d-891602206fb7_story.html

    When you think of the quintessential German restaurant in the United States, you’re thinking of a place like Karl Ratzsch. Ever since it was founded by German immigrants in 1904, it had a menu full of schnitzel, spaetzle and hearty Bavarian staples. The interior was dark wood, with German coats of arms, hand-painted beer steins, a beautiful Bavarian cuckoo clock and servers in dirndls. The place was a Milwaukee institution: Frank Lloyd Wright, Liberace and President Nixon dined there. Karl Ratzsch’s was handed down through generations, and reached such acclaim that in 1980, members of the Ratzsch family were invited to a state dinner with President Jimmy Carter and the chancellor of West Germany, Helmut Schmidt.

    It didn’t last. In 1993, Karl Ratzsch III was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, with a suicide note left among the mounting bills. The restaurant stopped serving lunch for a period in 1995 because of dwindling customers. In 2003, the family sold it to employees. When it appeared the restaurant would close, those employees sold it to chef Thomas Hauck.

    When he took over in 2016, the restaurant was filthy and not up to code. It had become “knicknacky,” he said, but not in a charming way. He counted 400 teddy bears, all covered in grime, plus Christmas decorations that had stayed up for years.

    He was convinced that if he could just clean the place up and freshen up the menu, he’d bring in a new crowd. The regulars — people who had frequented the restaurant in its heyday — “were dying, literally.”

    “I thought there would be a pride in the place,” he said. “Like, your parents loved it, you should see why you’ll love it, too.” He poured $300,000 into the renovation.

    He did not recoup his investment. The regulars accused him of destroying the restaurant. Young people checked it out but didn’t come back, opting instead for ramen and Korean tacos and the kind of bright, casual spots where all of the servers look like models and avocado toast is on the menu. Karl Ratzsch closed last year.

    “It’s a German restaurant that’s 114 years old,” Hauck said. “It’s not what the trend is; it’s just not.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    American fast food is largely German, so German food conquered the world via McDonalds.
    , @Rosamond Vincy
    You can still get good brats in Ohio.
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  116. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2
    The article says it is about the food but the writer really seems to be thinking about the lovely low wages of the staff...

    As the BBC forlorned:

    A decade or so ago a curry chef would earn around £15,000 a year. Now, a restaurant has to pay almost double that as well as jumping a series of complex bureaucratic hurdles to persuade the Home Office to allow them to bring in a chef from abroad.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36378655

    There’s no one in Britain who can learn to mix spices, chop meat and vegetables stir it all around and boil rice?

    I know a pair of twins who learned to do it when they were 11. Of course they used curry powder from an Indian store.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    I thought what you describe was called stew, but what do I know? We need more Indians!
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  117. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2
    The article says it is about the food but the writer really seems to be thinking about the lovely low wages of the staff...

    As the BBC forlorned:

    A decade or so ago a curry chef would earn around £15,000 a year. Now, a restaurant has to pay almost double that as well as jumping a series of complex bureaucratic hurdles to persuade the Home Office to allow them to bring in a chef from abroad.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36378655

    Is £30,000 a year a living wage? Or will council housing, child benefit, wife’s seeking but never finding work benefit, and 4 grandparents old age benefit actually support the family?

    That’s how immigrant restaurant workers live in America. That’s how the poverty stricken Mexicans manage to send 20 billion dollars home to Mexico every year. It’s Mexico’s largest source of foreign currency bigger.

    Read More
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  118. @Anonymous

    By the way, why don’t we find pork chops and sauerkraut on our menus any more? Remember ham with pineapple? Mashed potatoes? I took a 90-year-old friend to dinner the other night and she was thoroughly disgusted to find that the menu featured more quesadillas, tostadas and “wraps” than anything she could easily recognize.
     
    Basically because German restaurants have declined significantly:

    "‘Grandma’s food’: How changing tastes are killing German restaurants"

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/grandmas-food-how-changing-tastes-are-killing-german-restaurants/2018/03/19/de4c4994-0b93-11e8-8b0d-891602206fb7_story.html

    When you think of the quintessential German restaurant in the United States, you’re thinking of a place like Karl Ratzsch. Ever since it was founded by German immigrants in 1904, it had a menu full of schnitzel, spaetzle and hearty Bavarian staples. The interior was dark wood, with German coats of arms, hand-painted beer steins, a beautiful Bavarian cuckoo clock and servers in dirndls. The place was a Milwaukee institution: Frank Lloyd Wright, Liberace and President Nixon dined there. Karl Ratzsch’s was handed down through generations, and reached such acclaim that in 1980, members of the Ratzsch family were invited to a state dinner with President Jimmy Carter and the chancellor of West Germany, Helmut Schmidt.

    It didn’t last. In 1993, Karl Ratzsch III was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, with a suicide note left among the mounting bills. The restaurant stopped serving lunch for a period in 1995 because of dwindling customers. In 2003, the family sold it to employees. When it appeared the restaurant would close, those employees sold it to chef Thomas Hauck.

    When he took over in 2016, the restaurant was filthy and not up to code. It had become “knicknacky,” he said, but not in a charming way. He counted 400 teddy bears, all covered in grime, plus Christmas decorations that had stayed up for years.

    He was convinced that if he could just clean the place up and freshen up the menu, he’d bring in a new crowd. The regulars — people who had frequented the restaurant in its heyday — “were dying, literally.”

    “I thought there would be a pride in the place,” he said. “Like, your parents loved it, you should see why you’ll love it, too.” He poured $300,000 into the renovation.

    He did not recoup his investment. The regulars accused him of destroying the restaurant. Young people checked it out but didn’t come back, opting instead for ramen and Korean tacos and the kind of bright, casual spots where all of the servers look like models and avocado toast is on the menu. Karl Ratzsch closed last year.

    “It’s a German restaurant that’s 114 years old,” Hauck said. “It’s not what the trend is; it’s just not.”
     

    American fast food is largely German, so German food conquered the world via McDonalds.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Burgers are actually an American invention:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburger#Claims_of_invention
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  119. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @jim jones
    India is the Diabetes Capital of the World:

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/health-fitness/health-news/India-is-the-diabetes-capital-of-the-world/articleshow/50753461.cms

    High carb low protein diets cause diabetes. High carb low protein is the essence of Mexican Asian and Indian food. And people wonder why the average American was slim to medium in 1970 and medium to obese 30 years later.

    If you crave salsa, chop up some celery onion and bell pepper. Mix them up with tomato juice and salsa to make a cold soup.

    Or put the salsa on a 2,500 calorie plate of rice beans fried tortillas cheese and 2 ounces of shredded baby food meat that’s been sitting in the fridge for a week.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Hong Kong actually has the highest meat consumption per capita in the world. Hong Kong cuisine is Cantonese, which is what I believe most American Chinese cuisine is or is based on. Incidentally, Hong Kong also has the higest life expectancy in the world.
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  120. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    American fast food is largely German, so German food conquered the world via McDonalds.

    Burgers are actually an American invention:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburger#Claims_of_invention

    Read More
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  121. @Mungerite
    Agree re: Mexican in Japan, which was part of the reason for the partial disclaimer (cuisines worth doing) in my post.

    I’ll concede that for some reason, Chinese in Japan really isn’t as good as it is in most of Southeast Asia, or London, which is curious since they are clearly able to do French/Italian better. My somewhat heretical opinion is that good Chinese is actually more complex/finicky/precise/ingredient-driven than both (certainly Italian).

    Really good Chinese food is indeed heavily ingredient-dependent, and I agree completely that it travels way worse than Italian.

    Chinese food in Japan is especially mediocre, as you and some other commenters have noted. I don’t get that, either — Japan has lots of good fresh ingredients available, but in my experience it doesn’t seem to work.

    I remember reading somewhere that in WWII, the Germans were pretty good at placing spies in Allied countries, i.e. they were able to train up people who sounded fluent in English, French, etc., but they failed in passing off their operatives in the country whose language arguably is closest to their own, i.e. the Netherlands.

    Maybe there’s some principle of proximity inhibiting the willingness to suppress one’s own instincts and habits when trying to imitate.

    BTW, my impression is that Chinese people in Hong Kong also have little to no interest in Mexican food. There certainly aren’t many Mexican places here.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    There is, however, Chinese Cuban in Miami, and it is delicious.
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  122. Anonymous[313] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2
    The article says it is about the food but the writer really seems to be thinking about the lovely low wages of the staff...

    As the BBC forlorned:

    A decade or so ago a curry chef would earn around £15,000 a year. Now, a restaurant has to pay almost double that as well as jumping a series of complex bureaucratic hurdles to persuade the Home Office to allow them to bring in a chef from abroad.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36378655

    Yep.

    ‘Curry chefs’.

    Just what Britain needs to when the hi-tech export drive of the future.

    Read More
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  123. Anonymous[313] • Disclaimer says:
    @jim jones
    India is the Diabetes Capital of the World:

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/health-fitness/health-news/India-is-the-diabetes-capital-of-the-world/articleshow/50753461.cms

    Undoubtedly this is genetic in ultimate provenance.

    There seems to be an implication of this being a side effect of r/K selection in India, which has always been a densely populated/high competition nation.

    Read More
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  124. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    High carb low protein diets cause diabetes. High carb low protein is the essence of Mexican Asian and Indian food. And people wonder why the average American was slim to medium in 1970 and medium to obese 30 years later.

    If you crave salsa, chop up some celery onion and bell pepper. Mix them up with tomato juice and salsa to make a cold soup.

    Or put the salsa on a 2,500 calorie plate of rice beans fried tortillas cheese and 2 ounces of shredded baby food meat that’s been sitting in the fridge for a week.

    Hong Kong actually has the highest meat consumption per capita in the world. Hong Kong cuisine is Cantonese, which is what I believe most American Chinese cuisine is or is based on. Incidentally, Hong Kong also has the higest life expectancy in the world.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    Hong Kong actually has the highest meat consumption per capita in the world.

     

    Yeah, I saw this in the news. I've lived in HK for almost 30 years, and I don't understand how it can be true. Cantonese cuisine is loaded with seafood -- but meat, not so much.

    The only thing I can think of is that vegetarians are still pretty thin on the ground here. Maybe the western countries with meat-heavy cuisines now have so many vegetarian denizens that their overall meat consumption has dropped significantly.

    , @Jack D
    I would bet that the numbers in the study are flawed. They come up with per capita meat consumption of something like 1.5 lbs per person per day which is just not plausible on a Chinese diet. Chinese food almost always presents meat as cut up bits mixed in with vegetables and eaten with rice or noodles. It is considered barbarian to wield knives at the table. HK cuisine has a certain amount of British influence (and affluence) and includes more meat than the traditional diet, but not THAT much more. In order to eat 1.5 lbs. of meat you'd have to eat an impossible amount of Chinese dishes. The people selling these numbers have an agenda ("reduce greenhouse gasses") and their numbers are about as believable as the Soviet grain harvest stats. Never trust a leftist - they are always serving a "greater truth" which is more important than mere facts - the agenda beats the truth every time.

    Maybe the numbers in HK are skewed by people coming over the border for the day from the mainland and eating in HK restaurants and/or taking the stuff back with them? The Chinese (with good reason) do not trust their food supply and trust the HK system much more because they see it as less corrupt. I know that HK had to impose limits on how much baby formula you could buy because Chinese were coming over and clearing out the shelves and HK women couldn't get formula for their own babies.

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  125. LondonBob says:
    @Anonymous
    I was in Berlin about 5 years ago, and the food there was terrible. The variety and quality of the restaurants and culinary scene and cuisines available were very bad. Especially considering that it's the capital of the largest economy in Europe. Obviously cuisine doesn't justify immigration. But they wouldn't even need immigration. Just some chefs and an interest in good food and cuisine. I mean, France and Italy are right there. You'd think they'd have borrowed and been influenced by their cuisine and culinary cultures. I think Germans and other northern Europeans just don't care that much about food and have a more utilitarian approach to food where it's just fuel for work.

    The Puritans liked baked beans due to their plainness, I think Protestant Northen Europeans don’t have the same need or desire for elaborate food, plus the wealth to afford meat and thus eschew peasant food.

    By the nineties food was at pretty high standard, both quality and standard, certainly in London. Of course I can’t help thinking of all the kebab and pizza shops established by MENA immigrants in Sweden, disgusting.

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  126. LondonBob says:
    @stillCARealist
    Are you a Brit?

    We visited London in 2016 and ate in a pub, of which there seem to be thousands to choose from. Gotta have fish and chips! Well, all that new foodie influence and my spouse suffered through a bland and greasy meal. The "pint" was so big I guess the point was to make one drunk enough not to notice the yuckiness of the food.

    You should check out the reviews of pubs and restaurants first before going in, some are budget chain pubs which I would never eat in, some are gastropubs, besides fish and chips is inevitably greasy on some level.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Cowboy shaw
    The trained London eye can easily identify a gastro pub from a pub food pub. There is quite a difference.
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  127. LondonBob says:
    @Peasant
    Britain's most popular fast food was fish and chips. Some say it was a Jewish invention others say it started when the railways meant that fish could be delivered to the cities fresh (in the days before reliable refrigeration) to go alongside the traitional poor peoples food which was fried potatoes (eventually fried fish replaced pigs feet as the classic accompaniment to fried potatoes for the poor).

    I well remember when before eu fishing regulations (impossible quotas, no attempt to stop Chinese factory vessels over-fishing you get the idea) jacked the price up so high (fried cod has become-get this: a delicacey- a special treat!) that every friday people had a 'fish supper' and there were long qeues at the chip shop. This was a remnant of the Catholic middle ages in England when you were not allowed to eat meat so you had fish.

    Now Britain's most popular fast food is Indian take away. First of all most Indian takeaways in England are owned by Pakistanis and staffed by people from Bangladesh. Actual Indians have their own vegetarian establishments some of which are award winning. As for the idea that Britain is being culturally enriched by authentic foreign cuisine that is just laughable. ALL Indian takeaway food is specially adapted to Westerners tastes and always has been even in the fancier restaurants that claim to be more authentic. Things like dishes and menus with vastly more meat than is usual, spice combinations that you will never see in India or the subcontinent generally as well as strange uses of clarified butter (Ghee). If you go to the subcontinent there is no such thing as chicken tikka (there is chicken cooked on a tandoor-a clay oven- but the actual tikka recipie is unknown; the closest thing they have is butter chicken) and balti dishes are unknown. Balti is one of the most common takeout curry recipies in Britain. It literally means bucket in one of the Indian languages (the idea that you put all of the ingredients for the sauce in one pot and prepare it in your establishment en masse). Balti flavour is known only in western Europe and was deliberately invented to appeal to westerners tastes.

    As for food from the subcontient being authentic etc it is all just nonsense. The most popular individual dish is chicken tikka massala (basically chicken marinated in spiced yoghurt, then cooked on a clay oven and then coated in a mildy spiced yoghurt sauce). All Indian takeaways offer it. A few years ago a survey was done and it was found that the only common ingredient in the various recipies was chicken. Authentic it is not!

    British food may not have been all that good (britain was the first country to industrialise and so therefore cut itself off in many ways from its culinary rural past) but the traditional fish and chip shops and working mans cafes (to Americans-a diner) serving the full English breakfast were head and shoulders in terms of what is on offer today. Basically all takeout food is Halal as not only are most takeaways owned by Muslims (Pakistanis and others have networks whereby the capital risks involved in investing in new restaurants/takeouts are shared-how do they make a profit? Illegal immigration and tax evasion. I actually lived near two Indian take aways doors apart that were owned by different branches of the same extended family) but larger chains (Subway etc) are certified Halal. This food is often of poor quality (tumbled chicken-rotten chicken that is freshened up by rincing in water with a type of food dye and cannot be detected by the naked eye) prepared by Bangladeshis with an iq of 75 and served up by people who know that if they are closed by the health inspector the restaurant will just pass on to a member of the same extended family or at least of the same ethnic group with the same informal lending networks/ capital backing them.

    Britain has not been enriched by this trash- far from it it has actually been impoverished by it. 95% of ethnic food outlets are awful. It is very common for people in England when they find a good fish and chip shop to go out of thier way to eat there and pay over the odds to do so.

    Indian food is seen as unhealthy and is nowhere near as popular as it was, the sushi craze is worldwide.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yngvar
    And not a Japanese to be seen anywhere.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    If British sushi is anything like American sushi, it's about as good and authentic as Peasant describes British Indian to be.
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  128. @ThreeCranes
    My English two cents. Riding my bicycle through the English countryside I would eat supper at a country pub. There was always a dinner special which I always ordered along with a pint of beer, or two or three. So I'm eating a real turkey drumstick, real mashed potatoes, green beans--okay, maybe they were overdone, the way Mom cooked em, but so what?--and maybe a roll or slice of bread of some kind, locally baked or baked in the kitchen. Real food! Food that will propel me many miles tomorrow. And like you, I thought it was great.

    Where in America can you get a real turkey drumstick for your meal? Who bakes turkeys anymore in restaurants? As you say, I'll take that any day of the week over couscous or hummus.

    Remember when Rumpole of Old Bailey said that the English had made two great contributions to civilization? The English breakfast and Common Law. I have a theory about that. The French guys in WW2 couldn't fight worth a damn because they started the day with a croissant and a cup of coffee. The English, on the other hand, fortified with eggs, bacon, sausage, baked beans, greasy toast and a slice of tomato were fueled for a hard day's slog.

    Course my theory is probably bull roar. I don't know what the Germans ate.

    “Where in America can you get a real turkey drumstick for your meal? Who bakes turkeys anymore in restaurants?”

    One of my favourite lunchtime pleasures in NYC was from a deli that roasted a couple turkeys each day and would carve a few slices into a great sandwich. The drumstick was yours for the asking and a few bucks.

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  129. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Indian food is shit. So is Persian food. Med food is ok, it depends on what part of the Med we are talking about. I'll take boiled mutton any day of the week over whatever combination of mushed up beans, vegetables, herbs and dirt sun people cook up.

    If you dare to go there, there are several good Lebanese restaurants on Edgeware Road, near Marble Arch.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    What do you think uber will charge me from the Chicago area during peak hours?
    , @jim jones
    I went into a Shisha Pub once in the Edgware Road and all the other customers ran out at the sight of a White Man
    , @Sarah Toga
    The two summers I spent in London in the late '70s we never worried about walking anywhere at whatever time.
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  130. clyde says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    I have never eaten mutton, though I would like to try. You just don’t see it here in the US and I doubt you find much in the UK either.
     
    I ate plenty of it during my four years in North Africa.

    Totally overrated by the locals, even with couscous and the, "special sauce."

    The 'roo I ate straight off the barbie at the hostel in Perth, WA was far better.

    Was the mutton tough and gamey? This is the rap against it. Lamb is too “gamey” (lol) for some people. They should stick with oatmeal.

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    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    The mutton was very gamey. It was rarely too tough.

    Heck, the beef over there has a strange, gamey taste. Not sure if it was the diet fed to the livestock or something else.
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  131. clyde says:
    @ThreeCranes
    My English two cents. Riding my bicycle through the English countryside I would eat supper at a country pub. There was always a dinner special which I always ordered along with a pint of beer, or two or three. So I'm eating a real turkey drumstick, real mashed potatoes, green beans--okay, maybe they were overdone, the way Mom cooked em, but so what?--and maybe a roll or slice of bread of some kind, locally baked or baked in the kitchen. Real food! Food that will propel me many miles tomorrow. And like you, I thought it was great.

    Where in America can you get a real turkey drumstick for your meal? Who bakes turkeys anymore in restaurants? As you say, I'll take that any day of the week over couscous or hummus.

    Remember when Rumpole of Old Bailey said that the English had made two great contributions to civilization? The English breakfast and Common Law. I have a theory about that. The French guys in WW2 couldn't fight worth a damn because they started the day with a croissant and a cup of coffee. The English, on the other hand, fortified with eggs, bacon, sausage, baked beans, greasy toast and a slice of tomato were fueled for a hard day's slog.

    Course my theory is probably bull roar. I don't know what the Germans ate.

    Where in America can you get a real turkey drumstick for your meal? Who bakes turkeys anymore in restaurants? As you say, I’ll take that any day of the week over couscous or hummus

    . There is a semi-gourmet supermarket near me that sells roasted turkey legs, takeout obviously. Delicious! My ultimate pot pie is with dark and white turkey meat. You need that dark meat but you never see dark meat in the common frozen chicken and turkey pot pies.

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  132. @Anonymous
    Hong Kong actually has the highest meat consumption per capita in the world. Hong Kong cuisine is Cantonese, which is what I believe most American Chinese cuisine is or is based on. Incidentally, Hong Kong also has the higest life expectancy in the world.

    Hong Kong actually has the highest meat consumption per capita in the world.

    Yeah, I saw this in the news. I’ve lived in HK for almost 30 years, and I don’t understand how it can be true. Cantonese cuisine is loaded with seafood — but meat, not so much.

    The only thing I can think of is that vegetarians are still pretty thin on the ground here. Maybe the western countries with meat-heavy cuisines now have so many vegetarian denizens that their overall meat consumption has dropped significantly.

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    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    That makes no sense. The big diet crazes here all focus on fat and protein-heavy meals. Veganism is out and keto is in.

    Personally I like a balanced diet full of all possibilities.
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  133. @JohnnyWalker123
    I recall that a month or two ago, I was reading through an immigration-related blog thread here. There was a discussion over how pro-immigration activists cite "good restaurants" as a huge benefit of mass immigration. Pro-immigration activists always claim that if immigration is stopped, we won't get to eat delicious foreign food anymore.

    Somebody then mention there's been this amazing recent invention that may change the culinary world.

    That invention is called a "cookbook."

    I LOLed at the comment, but I think that poster had a point.

    That invention is called a “cookbook.” Except most of the low-life visiting here lack the intellectual curiosity to buy a book especially one written by a (gasp) feriner (sic). Face it boys, Caucasians are NOT responsible for much in the culinary world. Escoffier – a frog. Bocuse – froggy also. Batali – Eyetalian. Samuelson – Swedish/Ethiopian (colored too!). Bastianich – Eyetalian. Chiarello – yup; greaseball too. Flay – ‘Murican who cooks…Beaner foods! Keller – ‘Muican who cooks Froggy food. Pepin – another damn frog (damn those freedom fries!).WAIT! Let’s “build that wall” around France! Yup, them inglorious bastids are gonna mess with our grilled cheese, ‘mater soup & nachos next!

    Read More
    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    After reading that rant I'd say your diet consists of mainly paint chips and airplane glue.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    Okay, wops not being white I disagree with but understand. But frogs not being white? Probably, you're just an idiot.
    , @Rosamond Vincy
    Everybody gets recipes online these days anyway. Even medieval re-enactors:

    http://medievalcookery.com/recipes/
    , @S. Anonyia
    Frogs are quintessential Caucasians dude. The generic word for white/Westerner in many Middle Eastern languages (like Farsi) translates to "Frank" or "French person."
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  134. @ThreeCranes
    My English two cents. Riding my bicycle through the English countryside I would eat supper at a country pub. There was always a dinner special which I always ordered along with a pint of beer, or two or three. So I'm eating a real turkey drumstick, real mashed potatoes, green beans--okay, maybe they were overdone, the way Mom cooked em, but so what?--and maybe a roll or slice of bread of some kind, locally baked or baked in the kitchen. Real food! Food that will propel me many miles tomorrow. And like you, I thought it was great.

    Where in America can you get a real turkey drumstick for your meal? Who bakes turkeys anymore in restaurants? As you say, I'll take that any day of the week over couscous or hummus.

    Remember when Rumpole of Old Bailey said that the English had made two great contributions to civilization? The English breakfast and Common Law. I have a theory about that. The French guys in WW2 couldn't fight worth a damn because they started the day with a croissant and a cup of coffee. The English, on the other hand, fortified with eggs, bacon, sausage, baked beans, greasy toast and a slice of tomato were fueled for a hard day's slog.

    Course my theory is probably bull roar. I don't know what the Germans ate.

    I’m on board with all of this – and I still eat bacon and eggs for breakfast most mornings, no bread.

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  135. @Anon
    There’s no one in Britain who can learn to mix spices, chop meat and vegetables stir it all around and boil rice?

    I know a pair of twins who learned to do it when they were 11. Of course they used curry powder from an Indian store.

    I thought what you describe was called stew, but what do I know? We need more Indians!

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  136. @notso whiteboy
    That invention is called a “cookbook.” Except most of the low-life visiting here lack the intellectual curiosity to buy a book especially one written by a (gasp) feriner (sic). Face it boys, Caucasians are NOT responsible for much in the culinary world. Escoffier - a frog. Bocuse - froggy also. Batali - Eyetalian. Samuelson - Swedish/Ethiopian (colored too!). Bastianich - Eyetalian. Chiarello - yup; greaseball too. Flay - 'Murican who cooks...Beaner foods! Keller - 'Muican who cooks Froggy food. Pepin - another damn frog (damn those freedom fries!).WAIT! Let's "build that wall" around France! Yup, them inglorious bastids are gonna mess with our grilled cheese, 'mater soup & nachos next!

    After reading that rant I’d say your diet consists of mainly paint chips and airplane glue.

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  137. @The Alarmist
    If you dare to go there, there are several good Lebanese restaurants on Edgeware Road, near Marble Arch.

    What do you think uber will charge me from the Chicago area during peak hours?

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  138. Graham says:
    @stillCARealist
    Are you a Brit?

    We visited London in 2016 and ate in a pub, of which there seem to be thousands to choose from. Gotta have fish and chips! Well, all that new foodie influence and my spouse suffered through a bland and greasy meal. The "pint" was so big I guess the point was to make one drunk enough not to notice the yuckiness of the food.

    Yeah, a sample of one is really conclusive. Try choosing more carefully next time. Online reviews are your friend. I visited San Francisco in 2014 and had a disappointing meal. I draw no conclusions from that.

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  139. Hank Yobo says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    I can handle a plate of frog legs now and then, so long as the joint is clean enough to, for example, keep the snails off the food:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP51U_QBx48

    And Nelson would have admired the cut of Bernadette Peters’ jib.

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  140. Graham says:
    @Clyde
    I have never eaten mutton, though I would like to try. You just don't see it here in the US and I doubt you find much in the UK either. My understanding is that mutton is older so tougher than lamb. Everyone gets spoiled these days with nice tender lamb chops and shanks. But in an England of years past they would take mutton and simmer it for hours to tenderize it. The title here is BS anyway. You don't boil meats, you simmer them when you braise them. Braising being cooking in water rather than roasting, frying etc.
    If you are more curious about what braising means I see it has a wikipedia entry.

    I was brought up in the UK in the 60s. Never saw mutton in a shop or in anyone’s house and never had it at home. A few years ago old Jug Ears (aka the Prince of Wales) made a plea for its revival. Nobody bothered.

    Favourite lamb recipe: shanks casseroled with celery, onion, garlic, carrot, plum tomatoes, anchovies, cumin, herbs, etc.

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  141. @clyde
    Was the mutton tough and gamey? This is the rap against it. Lamb is too "gamey" (lol) for some people. They should stick with oatmeal.

    The mutton was very gamey. It was rarely too tough.

    Heck, the beef over there has a strange, gamey taste. Not sure if it was the diet fed to the livestock or something else.

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    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    Scrapie and BSE do take some getting used to, I confess. An education for your palate.
    , @clyde
    Thanks! I am always curious about mutton. As far as gamey beef goes, we usually eat grass fed beef at home. I cannot say it is gamey, but it must taste this way to some people, compared to feedlot fattened beef.
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  142. @Steve Sailer
    I ate at an Indian restaurant in London in 1965 when I was six.

    Gandhi in his biography talks of finding an Indian inspired vegetarian restaurant in about 1900.

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  143. @LondonBob
    You should check out the reviews of pubs and restaurants first before going in, some are budget chain pubs which I would never eat in, some are gastropubs, besides fish and chips is inevitably greasy on some level.

    The trained London eye can easily identify a gastro pub from a pub food pub. There is quite a difference.

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  144. jim jones says:
    @The Alarmist
    If you dare to go there, there are several good Lebanese restaurants on Edgeware Road, near Marble Arch.

    I went into a Shisha Pub once in the Edgware Road and all the other customers ran out at the sight of a White Man

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  145. Yngvar says:
    @LondonBob
    Indian food is seen as unhealthy and is nowhere near as popular as it was, the sushi craze is worldwide.

    And not a Japanese to be seen anywhere.

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  146. Kyle says:

    Porridge and boiled mutton sounds fantastic, maybe with boiled cabbage. But then again I’m a working man who’s pallet and fat reserves are not constantly saturated. I’m also a good cook.
    There’s some disconnect between them and I, I’m not sure what it is.

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  147. Jack D says:

    Lots of the grumpy old white guy complaining about food here is hilarious and illuminating. You can argue that a lot of things have gone downhill in America but food is not one of them, and say what you will about the furreners, they have been responsible for a lot of the improvement. The English endowed up with a great system of laws but they did not endow us with a great cuisine.

    The story about the German restaurant in Milwaukee was illuminating and sad. I can picture the place with its greasy and dusty teddy bears. It was really too far gone. All of the Northern European cuisines were fundamentally based on enduring a long sunless winter without green vegetables and so had to rely on things like meat (which could be slaughtered any time – in fact better in winter), root vegetables and pickled vegetables. Modern tastes tend toward cuisines of the sun and modern transportation allows us to enjoy sun cuisine all year round – fresh green vegetables and salads and cooked dishes with vibrantly colored tomatoes and peppers, etc. Sun cuisine is always going to beat cloud cuisine. Italian food was the 1st sun cuisine that Americans were exposed to and they took to it immediately.

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    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    I disagree.

    The quality of meat, poultry, and fish has declined since my childhood. To get a good porterhouse now, you have to spend upwards of $50 at a butcher's.

    And sun people cuisine is not based on fresh vegetables, it's based on using spices and strong flavors to prevent and mask spoilage. Yes, they generally don't have preserved foods because there is food available all year, but there is no Whole Foods logistics chain in sun people cultures either--really fresh year-round produce is ice people one-uping sun people.

    It's actually ice people cuisine that requires high quality ingredients. You can make palatable to pretty good Mexican food with shitty ingredients, but you can't make a decent pork chop without a decent pork chop. Similarly, you can pretty much just throw anything you want on a tortilla, but if you don't know what you're doing, your non-industrial sauerkraut will be inedible.

    Japan is the ultimate example of the way in which ice people food is dependent on quality ingredients and preparation techniques. If you take away the grain component, Japanese cuisine is basically non-tropical hunter-gatherer plus some preserved foods (pickles, miso, etc), and as everyone knows, Japanese cuisine is all about quality ingredients and technique.
    , @Sarah Toga
    "food" and "cuisine" are not really the issues.

    The food talk is just a red herring to distract from immi-vasion disaster
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  148. @miss marple
    Robert Draper should avoid putting his 2¢ in on subjects he doesn't understand. Immigrants and their cuisine have been a feature of London for decades if not generations. Brexit is about national sovereignty and trade deals and the UK making its own immigration policies not NK style isolationism.

    Yeah, those English restaurants with their English food are just awful . . .

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2001/oct/14/foodanddrink.features13

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  149. Anon[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @eah
    https://twitter.com/Alba_Risen/status/902273477809500160

    Diane Kennedy’s authentic guacamole recipe. No immigrants needed.

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2017/05/cooking-with-counter-currents/

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  150. @Anon
    Japan can't do Mexican. There are a lot of Indian restaurants, however, but they are mostly operated by ... wait for it ... immigrants, from Nepal for the most part.

    On the other hand, native Japanese bakers and pastry chefs are legion, and many have studied and worked in France. The pastries are toned down in sweetness for the local market in many cases. There are many Italian restaurants whose menu has not been filtered through the super meaty, cheesy, fatty Italiana-American filter, with native Japanese chefs who have worked in Italy. And boutique hamburger shops are having a heyday.

    There is decent Chinese and Taiwanese food, along with Japanese-Chinese, called Chuuka, but there you see a lot of ... immigrants. Korean places tend to have Koreans working there.

    I think the difference is that if you are a skilled chef or cook willing to learn Japanese and wanting to set up a decent, financially solvent ethnic restaurant, you are welcome, but if you want to be on public aid and bring in your whole deadbeat family, you aren't. If you are a black African, but are O.K. with working your ass off in construction, you can overstay your tourist visa and we'll look the other way, but since you're illegal I wouldn't make long-term plans.

    I think your observations are based on Tokyo. I live in the “bread capital” of Japan, but the bakeries here are sub-par. I have found only 1 that can make a decent French baguette. Most of the bread is too sweet and soft, while the pastries, paradoxically and as you mention, are not sweet enough. And edible rye? Nowhere.

    Also, while there is decent Indian food, most of it is crap.

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  151. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous
    Hong Kong actually has the highest meat consumption per capita in the world. Hong Kong cuisine is Cantonese, which is what I believe most American Chinese cuisine is or is based on. Incidentally, Hong Kong also has the higest life expectancy in the world.

    I would bet that the numbers in the study are flawed. They come up with per capita meat consumption of something like 1.5 lbs per person per day which is just not plausible on a Chinese diet. Chinese food almost always presents meat as cut up bits mixed in with vegetables and eaten with rice or noodles. It is considered barbarian to wield knives at the table. HK cuisine has a certain amount of British influence (and affluence) and includes more meat than the traditional diet, but not THAT much more. In order to eat 1.5 lbs. of meat you’d have to eat an impossible amount of Chinese dishes. The people selling these numbers have an agenda (“reduce greenhouse gasses”) and their numbers are about as believable as the Soviet grain harvest stats. Never trust a leftist – they are always serving a “greater truth” which is more important than mere facts – the agenda beats the truth every time.

    Maybe the numbers in HK are skewed by people coming over the border for the day from the mainland and eating in HK restaurants and/or taking the stuff back with them? The Chinese (with good reason) do not trust their food supply and trust the HK system much more because they see it as less corrupt. I know that HK had to impose limits on how much baby formula you could buy because Chinese were coming over and clearing out the shelves and HK women couldn’t get formula for their own babies.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    A combination of starch and meat is pretty universal e.g. burgers and fries, meat and potatoes, spaghetti and meatballs, etc. So Chinese food isn't unique in that regard. Even when people go to steakhouses for the purpose of eating steak, they tend to eat a lot of high calorie sides like bread, potatoes, creamed spinach, deserts, etc., that tend to detract from maximizing meat consumption.

    The Chinese don't eat dairy. They have buns and use flour for dumplings and the like, but bread isn't a staple. Potatoes also aren't a staple. And while vegetables add flavor, texture, and nutrients, relative to starch and meat they provide no calories. So they're basically left with rice and noodles and meat. The Chinese eat a ton of pork. And given the Chinese penchant for eating anything and everything that moves, along with the lack of vegetarianism and veganism, it seems plausible that Hong Kong has such high meat consumption. 1.5 lbs of meat is only about a thousand calories, and a bowl of rice is only about 200 calories.
    , @The Last Real Calvinist

    Maybe the numbers in HK are skewed by people coming over the border for the day from the mainland and eating in HK restaurants and/or taking the stuff back with them?

     

    I doubt it. The vast majority of Hong Kong's food comes from the mainland in the first place. Plus the standard of restaurants and food preparation in the mainland has skyrocketed; there are great places to eat even in provincial mainland cities.

    I think your first explanation is the one that survives Occam's Razor: it's a bad study. As you say, there is absolutely no way the average HK person is eating 1.5 pounds of meat a day. Lots of people here eat only tiny amounts of meat; they are far more likely to eat fish/seafood daily.
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  152. @Mungerite
    Agree re: Mexican in Japan, which was part of the reason for the partial disclaimer (cuisines worth doing) in my post.

    I’ll concede that for some reason, Chinese in Japan really isn’t as good as it is in most of Southeast Asia, or London, which is curious since they are clearly able to do French/Italian better. My somewhat heretical opinion is that good Chinese is actually more complex/finicky/precise/ingredient-driven than both (certainly Italian).

    I agree with both your opinions re Chinese. Also, I found a decent Mexican place in Japan–homemade tortillas with ox tongue, etc.–just like the invaders used to make back home.

    In the US, we might describe Mexican as spicy, but the reality is that the entire cuisine is a gastronomic sledgehammer, heavy in flavors and textures eschewed by Japanese. But they can do it, as my little taco find proves, and do it without a Speedy Gonzalez ghetto.

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  153. @JohnnyWalker123
    I recall that a month or two ago, I was reading through an immigration-related blog thread here. There was a discussion over how pro-immigration activists cite "good restaurants" as a huge benefit of mass immigration. Pro-immigration activists always claim that if immigration is stopped, we won't get to eat delicious foreign food anymore.

    Somebody then mention there's been this amazing recent invention that may change the culinary world.

    That invention is called a "cookbook."

    I LOLed at the comment, but I think that poster had a point.

    Cookbooks are worthless if you can’t source ingredients. That’s what immigrants actually contribute. When you get enough, they start growing/producing/importing things from the home country. The reason Japan does so (comparatively) well with (select) foreign cuisines despite its (comparative) lack of immigrants is that Japanese mentality pushes them to go to lengths–like traveling to the foreign country to study the cuisine in context–while the general wealth and obsession with food makes people willing to spend on overpriced imported things.

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  154. JSM says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike
    Indian food is shit. So is Persian food. Med food is ok, it depends on what part of the Med we are talking about. I'll take boiled mutton any day of the week over whatever combination of mushed up beans, vegetables, herbs and dirt sun people cook up.

    How do I cook boiled mutton? (I’m serious. I want to try it!)

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    • Replies: @Q

    How do I cook boiled mutton?
     
    You roast it.

    LOL.
    , @Rosamond Vincy
    Try here:

    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/50191/50191-h/50191-h.htm
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  155. @Jack D
    Lots of the grumpy old white guy complaining about food here is hilarious and illuminating. You can argue that a lot of things have gone downhill in America but food is not one of them, and say what you will about the furreners, they have been responsible for a lot of the improvement. The English endowed up with a great system of laws but they did not endow us with a great cuisine.

    The story about the German restaurant in Milwaukee was illuminating and sad. I can picture the place with its greasy and dusty teddy bears. It was really too far gone. All of the Northern European cuisines were fundamentally based on enduring a long sunless winter without green vegetables and so had to rely on things like meat (which could be slaughtered any time - in fact better in winter), root vegetables and pickled vegetables. Modern tastes tend toward cuisines of the sun and modern transportation allows us to enjoy sun cuisine all year round - fresh green vegetables and salads and cooked dishes with vibrantly colored tomatoes and peppers, etc. Sun cuisine is always going to beat cloud cuisine. Italian food was the 1st sun cuisine that Americans were exposed to and they took to it immediately.

    I disagree.

    The quality of meat, poultry, and fish has declined since my childhood. To get a good porterhouse now, you have to spend upwards of $50 at a butcher’s.

    And sun people cuisine is not based on fresh vegetables, it’s based on using spices and strong flavors to prevent and mask spoilage. Yes, they generally don’t have preserved foods because there is food available all year, but there is no Whole Foods logistics chain in sun people cultures either–really fresh year-round produce is ice people one-uping sun people.

    It’s actually ice people cuisine that requires high quality ingredients. You can make palatable to pretty good Mexican food with shitty ingredients, but you can’t make a decent pork chop without a decent pork chop. Similarly, you can pretty much just throw anything you want on a tortilla, but if you don’t know what you’re doing, your non-industrial sauerkraut will be inedible.

    Japan is the ultimate example of the way in which ice people food is dependent on quality ingredients and preparation techniques. If you take away the grain component, Japanese cuisine is basically non-tropical hunter-gatherer plus some preserved foods (pickles, miso, etc), and as everyone knows, Japanese cuisine is all about quality ingredients and technique.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Japanese cuisine has to be among the most overrated. It was the ultimate exotic food because of the raw fish, but then people realized how plain Japanese food tasted and that they could indulge in exotic, fashionable food without really having to endure much exotic flavor and then it really took off.
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  156. @notso whiteboy
    That invention is called a “cookbook.” Except most of the low-life visiting here lack the intellectual curiosity to buy a book especially one written by a (gasp) feriner (sic). Face it boys, Caucasians are NOT responsible for much in the culinary world. Escoffier - a frog. Bocuse - froggy also. Batali - Eyetalian. Samuelson - Swedish/Ethiopian (colored too!). Bastianich - Eyetalian. Chiarello - yup; greaseball too. Flay - 'Murican who cooks...Beaner foods! Keller - 'Muican who cooks Froggy food. Pepin - another damn frog (damn those freedom fries!).WAIT! Let's "build that wall" around France! Yup, them inglorious bastids are gonna mess with our grilled cheese, 'mater soup & nachos next!

    Okay, wops not being white I disagree with but understand. But frogs not being white? Probably, you’re just an idiot.

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  157. Anon[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Didn't someone recently claim that France's World Cup victory is proof of the benefits of mass migration?

    The sad thing is that a large fraction of the public (in America and apparently also in France) probably wouldn't mind inviting in a horrendous migrant group as long as it boosted their sportsball team's chances of winning the "Big Game."

    By the way, here's the trailer for a movie called "Big Fan."

    If you want to understand the mind of the average American man, I highly recommend watching the trailer. This trailer is a very accurate description of how the average American male thinks and behaves. Once you watch this trailer, you'll have a better understanding of why this country is in so much trouble. You'll also get a glimpse into why so many Whites are in awe of Blacks.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzQKeqMogh8
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  158. @LondonBob
    Indian food is seen as unhealthy and is nowhere near as popular as it was, the sushi craze is worldwide.

    If British sushi is anything like American sushi, it’s about as good and authentic as Peasant describes British Indian to be.

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  159. Anon87 says:

    I’ll take blood pudding and mushy peas any day over the smelly curry slop.

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    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    Black pudden and white pudden yes, love me a breakfast fry-up; mushy peas, oh hell no.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    I’ll take blood pudding and mushy peas any day over the smelly curry slop.
     
    I made a curry latte a couple times, and it was quite intriguing. Salt and cinnamon help.

    Sure beats catnip tea.
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  160. BS. Went there several times during the Aughties, and had awesome cockles, venison pâté, treacle tart, treacle sponge, boeuf bourgignon, chocolate pudding, sausage rolls, spinach pasties, fish-n-chips, bacon-and-brie sandwich, cream tea, and sticky toffee pudding.

    (Not at the same meal, I hasten to add.)

    I’d give mushy peas a miss, however. Get your veggies from curry or Chinese, of which there was plenty ten years ago.

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  161. Anon87 says:

    Reposting: https://www.eater.com/2018/7/26/17619102/gordon-ramsay-uncharted-tv-show-national-geographic-uncharted

    A Brit turning the tables on the myth we need immigrants for food.

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  162. @DFH
    How many girls being raped by Pakistanis is nice food worth? 10? 100? 10,000?

    Curry’s alright, but they had plenty of curry places when I was there in ’02, ’03, and ’06. They didn’t need to import more immigrants because of the Curry Famine.

    BTW, no place has ever had gruel on the menu. Maybe you’ve got to ask for it to be made up special. “Bespoke curry”?

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  163. @Tyrion 2
    Perfect. You ate at a bar where they serve microwave meals to tourists. Ask for a recommendation next time or use Google. You wouldn't eat at that type of trap in your own city...

    It was a big place, packed to the bleachers, and had a big crowd of young, well-dressed people drinking outside. The Bishop’s something and something. There were a zillion places that looked just like it and I bet they’re all using the same supplier. It was my only restaurant reference point, as all our other meals took place at the hotel or from convenience stores, and it let us down. My meal was yummy, as I recall, but I was bombed and bloated from the gigantic beer that I shouldn’t have finished.

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  164. @istevefan
    So food it is. You know a guy's got nothing when he resorts to food as his argument for open borders. It's become the equivalent of using the Nazi or racist label when losing a debate.

    BTW - we need to bring up Japan more and more. As others have pointed out, Japan has great food from around the world without having invited the world. They are Rick Bayless on steroids.

    You know a guy’s got nothing when he resorts to food as his argument for open borders. It’s become the equivalent of using the Nazi or racist label when losing a debate.

    But…but…wienerschnitzel and grits!

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  165. @The Last Real Calvinist

    Hong Kong actually has the highest meat consumption per capita in the world.

     

    Yeah, I saw this in the news. I've lived in HK for almost 30 years, and I don't understand how it can be true. Cantonese cuisine is loaded with seafood -- but meat, not so much.

    The only thing I can think of is that vegetarians are still pretty thin on the ground here. Maybe the western countries with meat-heavy cuisines now have so many vegetarian denizens that their overall meat consumption has dropped significantly.

    That makes no sense. The big diet crazes here all focus on fat and protein-heavy meals. Veganism is out and keto is in.

    Personally I like a balanced diet full of all possibilities.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I think both veganism and keto are in right now. Some people are really into veganism, and others are really into keto.
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  166. @Hank Yobo
    Britain, historically, took pride in its agricultural self-sufficiency while European rivals--like the Frogs--had to eat . . . frogs and other associated delicacies to prevent starvation. "Beef and beer" vs. nouvelle cuisine. Lord Horatio Nelson would be proud of men? like Robert Draper.

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  167. @notso whiteboy
    That invention is called a “cookbook.” Except most of the low-life visiting here lack the intellectual curiosity to buy a book especially one written by a (gasp) feriner (sic). Face it boys, Caucasians are NOT responsible for much in the culinary world. Escoffier - a frog. Bocuse - froggy also. Batali - Eyetalian. Samuelson - Swedish/Ethiopian (colored too!). Bastianich - Eyetalian. Chiarello - yup; greaseball too. Flay - 'Murican who cooks...Beaner foods! Keller - 'Muican who cooks Froggy food. Pepin - another damn frog (damn those freedom fries!).WAIT! Let's "build that wall" around France! Yup, them inglorious bastids are gonna mess with our grilled cheese, 'mater soup & nachos next!

    Everybody gets recipes online these days anyway. Even medieval re-enactors:

    http://medievalcookery.com/recipes/

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  168. @Anonymous

    By the way, why don’t we find pork chops and sauerkraut on our menus any more? Remember ham with pineapple? Mashed potatoes? I took a 90-year-old friend to dinner the other night and she was thoroughly disgusted to find that the menu featured more quesadillas, tostadas and “wraps” than anything she could easily recognize.
     
    Basically because German restaurants have declined significantly:

    "‘Grandma’s food’: How changing tastes are killing German restaurants"

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/grandmas-food-how-changing-tastes-are-killing-german-restaurants/2018/03/19/de4c4994-0b93-11e8-8b0d-891602206fb7_story.html

    When you think of the quintessential German restaurant in the United States, you’re thinking of a place like Karl Ratzsch. Ever since it was founded by German immigrants in 1904, it had a menu full of schnitzel, spaetzle and hearty Bavarian staples. The interior was dark wood, with German coats of arms, hand-painted beer steins, a beautiful Bavarian cuckoo clock and servers in dirndls. The place was a Milwaukee institution: Frank Lloyd Wright, Liberace and President Nixon dined there. Karl Ratzsch’s was handed down through generations, and reached such acclaim that in 1980, members of the Ratzsch family were invited to a state dinner with President Jimmy Carter and the chancellor of West Germany, Helmut Schmidt.

    It didn’t last. In 1993, Karl Ratzsch III was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, with a suicide note left among the mounting bills. The restaurant stopped serving lunch for a period in 1995 because of dwindling customers. In 2003, the family sold it to employees. When it appeared the restaurant would close, those employees sold it to chef Thomas Hauck.

    When he took over in 2016, the restaurant was filthy and not up to code. It had become “knicknacky,” he said, but not in a charming way. He counted 400 teddy bears, all covered in grime, plus Christmas decorations that had stayed up for years.

    He was convinced that if he could just clean the place up and freshen up the menu, he’d bring in a new crowd. The regulars — people who had frequented the restaurant in its heyday — “were dying, literally.”

    “I thought there would be a pride in the place,” he said. “Like, your parents loved it, you should see why you’ll love it, too.” He poured $300,000 into the renovation.

    He did not recoup his investment. The regulars accused him of destroying the restaurant. Young people checked it out but didn’t come back, opting instead for ramen and Korean tacos and the kind of bright, casual spots where all of the servers look like models and avocado toast is on the menu. Karl Ratzsch closed last year.

    “It’s a German restaurant that’s 114 years old,” Hauck said. “It’s not what the trend is; it’s just not.”
     

    You can still get good brats in Ohio.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    People still love bratwursts and sausages. It's just they're less likely now to seek out restaurants that specialize in dishes like brats, sauerkraut, and mashed potatoes. They just make that it home. If they do eat brats when they eat out, it'll usually be because they're at a trendy new microbrewery and having it to have something along with the beer they're trying. Or it'll be at a place that presents the brats in an unfamiliar way from traditional cuisine.
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  169. Yee says:

    “Maybe the numbers in HK are skewed by people coming over the border for the day from the mainland and eating in HK restaurants and/or taking the stuff back with them? ”

    No mainlander would go to HK to buy meat, because HK’s livestock are almost all imported from mainland China. Meat is more expensive in HK than in China. Baby formula much cheaper, so mainlander will buy them.

    The reason for the HK’s unreasonable amount of meat consumption is probably they import a lot of frozen meat from foreign countries and then smuggle into China. The custom has the import record but not export record, so it would appear as the meat are consumed in HK.

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    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    The reason for the HK’s unreasonable amount of meat consumption is probably they import a lot of frozen meat from foreign countries and then smuggle into China. The custom has the import record but not export record, so it would appear as the meat are consumed in HK.

     

    That's an interesting theory. Although mainland China produces plenty of good food itself, mainlanders are incredibly keen to try luxury imported products, including lots of food items. If specialty meats are being smuggled in to avoid luxury taxes, then your theory is plausible.

    So Jack, you may also be right.

    Anyway, it's still possible it's just a terrible study in which someone's intentionally misreading or misinterpreting some data.

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  170. @The Last Real Calvinist
    Really good Chinese food is indeed heavily ingredient-dependent, and I agree completely that it travels way worse than Italian.

    Chinese food in Japan is especially mediocre, as you and some other commenters have noted. I don't get that, either -- Japan has lots of good fresh ingredients available, but in my experience it doesn't seem to work.

    I remember reading somewhere that in WWII, the Germans were pretty good at placing spies in Allied countries, i.e. they were able to train up people who sounded fluent in English, French, etc., but they failed in passing off their operatives in the country whose language arguably is closest to their own, i.e. the Netherlands.

    Maybe there's some principle of proximity inhibiting the willingness to suppress one's own instincts and habits when trying to imitate.

    BTW, my impression is that Chinese people in Hong Kong also have little to no interest in Mexican food. There certainly aren't many Mexican places here.

    There is, however, Chinese Cuban in Miami, and it is delicious.

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  171. @Jack D
    Lots of the grumpy old white guy complaining about food here is hilarious and illuminating. You can argue that a lot of things have gone downhill in America but food is not one of them, and say what you will about the furreners, they have been responsible for a lot of the improvement. The English endowed up with a great system of laws but they did not endow us with a great cuisine.

    The story about the German restaurant in Milwaukee was illuminating and sad. I can picture the place with its greasy and dusty teddy bears. It was really too far gone. All of the Northern European cuisines were fundamentally based on enduring a long sunless winter without green vegetables and so had to rely on things like meat (which could be slaughtered any time - in fact better in winter), root vegetables and pickled vegetables. Modern tastes tend toward cuisines of the sun and modern transportation allows us to enjoy sun cuisine all year round - fresh green vegetables and salads and cooked dishes with vibrantly colored tomatoes and peppers, etc. Sun cuisine is always going to beat cloud cuisine. Italian food was the 1st sun cuisine that Americans were exposed to and they took to it immediately.

    “food” and “cuisine” are not really the issues.

    The food talk is just a red herring to distract from immi-vasion disaster

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  172. @The Alarmist
    If you dare to go there, there are several good Lebanese restaurants on Edgeware Road, near Marble Arch.

    The two summers I spent in London in the late ’70s we never worried about walking anywhere at whatever time.

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    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    It's not so much walking there as it is the glowers you get from the normal patrons. I did make a wrong turn onto a council estate near Tower Bridge one day, however, and had a very real need to feel concern for my safety.
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  173. Flip says:
    @Anonymous
    I was in Berlin about 5 years ago, and the food there was terrible. The variety and quality of the restaurants and culinary scene and cuisines available were very bad. Especially considering that it's the capital of the largest economy in Europe. Obviously cuisine doesn't justify immigration. But they wouldn't even need immigration. Just some chefs and an interest in good food and cuisine. I mean, France and Italy are right there. You'd think they'd have borrowed and been influenced by their cuisine and culinary cultures. I think Germans and other northern Europeans just don't care that much about food and have a more utilitarian approach to food where it's just fuel for work.

    I joke that my ancestors left Germany for America because they didn’t like the food.

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  174. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosamond Vincy
    You can still get good brats in Ohio.

    People still love bratwursts and sausages. It’s just they’re less likely now to seek out restaurants that specialize in dishes like brats, sauerkraut, and mashed potatoes. They just make that it home. If they do eat brats when they eat out, it’ll usually be because they’re at a trendy new microbrewery and having it to have something along with the beer they’re trying. Or it’ll be at a place that presents the brats in an unfamiliar way from traditional cuisine.

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    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    They do predominate when the menfolk grill out, but in Ohio's state capitol, Columbus, there's a neighborhood called German Village where Bratwursts and sauerkraut are alive and well at numerous popular restaurants.
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  175. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    I would bet that the numbers in the study are flawed. They come up with per capita meat consumption of something like 1.5 lbs per person per day which is just not plausible on a Chinese diet. Chinese food almost always presents meat as cut up bits mixed in with vegetables and eaten with rice or noodles. It is considered barbarian to wield knives at the table. HK cuisine has a certain amount of British influence (and affluence) and includes more meat than the traditional diet, but not THAT much more. In order to eat 1.5 lbs. of meat you'd have to eat an impossible amount of Chinese dishes. The people selling these numbers have an agenda ("reduce greenhouse gasses") and their numbers are about as believable as the Soviet grain harvest stats. Never trust a leftist - they are always serving a "greater truth" which is more important than mere facts - the agenda beats the truth every time.

    Maybe the numbers in HK are skewed by people coming over the border for the day from the mainland and eating in HK restaurants and/or taking the stuff back with them? The Chinese (with good reason) do not trust their food supply and trust the HK system much more because they see it as less corrupt. I know that HK had to impose limits on how much baby formula you could buy because Chinese were coming over and clearing out the shelves and HK women couldn't get formula for their own babies.

    A combination of starch and meat is pretty universal e.g. burgers and fries, meat and potatoes, spaghetti and meatballs, etc. So Chinese food isn’t unique in that regard. Even when people go to steakhouses for the purpose of eating steak, they tend to eat a lot of high calorie sides like bread, potatoes, creamed spinach, deserts, etc., that tend to detract from maximizing meat consumption.

    The Chinese don’t eat dairy. They have buns and use flour for dumplings and the like, but bread isn’t a staple. Potatoes also aren’t a staple. And while vegetables add flavor, texture, and nutrients, relative to starch and meat they provide no calories. So they’re basically left with rice and noodles and meat. The Chinese eat a ton of pork. And given the Chinese penchant for eating anything and everything that moves, along with the lack of vegetarianism and veganism, it seems plausible that Hong Kong has such high meat consumption. 1.5 lbs of meat is only about a thousand calories, and a bowl of rice is only about 200 calories.

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  176. utu says:

    The bad rap England gets for food is undeserved. Beef or lamb dishes were aways better in UK than anywhere in Europe. English breakfast is better than any continental breakfast.

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  177. Thud says:
    @Peasant
    Britain's most popular fast food was fish and chips. Some say it was a Jewish invention others say it started when the railways meant that fish could be delivered to the cities fresh (in the days before reliable refrigeration) to go alongside the traitional poor peoples food which was fried potatoes (eventually fried fish replaced pigs feet as the classic accompaniment to fried potatoes for the poor).

    I well remember when before eu fishing regulations (impossible quotas, no attempt to stop Chinese factory vessels over-fishing you get the idea) jacked the price up so high (fried cod has become-get this: a delicacey- a special treat!) that every friday people had a 'fish supper' and there were long qeues at the chip shop. This was a remnant of the Catholic middle ages in England when you were not allowed to eat meat so you had fish.

    Now Britain's most popular fast food is Indian take away. First of all most Indian takeaways in England are owned by Pakistanis and staffed by people from Bangladesh. Actual Indians have their own vegetarian establishments some of which are award winning. As for the idea that Britain is being culturally enriched by authentic foreign cuisine that is just laughable. ALL Indian takeaway food is specially adapted to Westerners tastes and always has been even in the fancier restaurants that claim to be more authentic. Things like dishes and menus with vastly more meat than is usual, spice combinations that you will never see in India or the subcontinent generally as well as strange uses of clarified butter (Ghee). If you go to the subcontinent there is no such thing as chicken tikka (there is chicken cooked on a tandoor-a clay oven- but the actual tikka recipie is unknown; the closest thing they have is butter chicken) and balti dishes are unknown. Balti is one of the most common takeout curry recipies in Britain. It literally means bucket in one of the Indian languages (the idea that you put all of the ingredients for the sauce in one pot and prepare it in your establishment en masse). Balti flavour is known only in western Europe and was deliberately invented to appeal to westerners tastes.

    As for food from the subcontient being authentic etc it is all just nonsense. The most popular individual dish is chicken tikka massala (basically chicken marinated in spiced yoghurt, then cooked on a clay oven and then coated in a mildy spiced yoghurt sauce). All Indian takeaways offer it. A few years ago a survey was done and it was found that the only common ingredient in the various recipies was chicken. Authentic it is not!

    British food may not have been all that good (britain was the first country to industrialise and so therefore cut itself off in many ways from its culinary rural past) but the traditional fish and chip shops and working mans cafes (to Americans-a diner) serving the full English breakfast were head and shoulders in terms of what is on offer today. Basically all takeout food is Halal as not only are most takeaways owned by Muslims (Pakistanis and others have networks whereby the capital risks involved in investing in new restaurants/takeouts are shared-how do they make a profit? Illegal immigration and tax evasion. I actually lived near two Indian take aways doors apart that were owned by different branches of the same extended family) but larger chains (Subway etc) are certified Halal. This food is often of poor quality (tumbled chicken-rotten chicken that is freshened up by rincing in water with a type of food dye and cannot be detected by the naked eye) prepared by Bangladeshis with an iq of 75 and served up by people who know that if they are closed by the health inspector the restaurant will just pass on to a member of the same extended family or at least of the same ethnic group with the same informal lending networks/ capital backing them.

    Britain has not been enriched by this trash- far from it it has actually been impoverished by it. 95% of ethnic food outlets are awful. It is very common for people in England when they find a good fish and chip shop to go out of thier way to eat there and pay over the odds to do so.

    Youngsters and drunks eat this crap, nobody else I know does, I’ve never eaten in an Indian restaurant as English food in all its many guises suffices.

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  178. utu says:
    @moshe
    German cuisine can only benefit from diversity.

    https://youtu.be/gOE-q20RcDM

    Traditional German cuisine is great.

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  179. @Anonymous
    People still love bratwursts and sausages. It's just they're less likely now to seek out restaurants that specialize in dishes like brats, sauerkraut, and mashed potatoes. They just make that it home. If they do eat brats when they eat out, it'll usually be because they're at a trendy new microbrewery and having it to have something along with the beer they're trying. Or it'll be at a place that presents the brats in an unfamiliar way from traditional cuisine.

    They do predominate when the menfolk grill out, but in Ohio’s state capitol, Columbus, there’s a neighborhood called German Village where Bratwursts and sauerkraut are alive and well at numerous popular restaurants.

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  180. Q says:
    @JSM
    How do I cook boiled mutton? (I'm serious. I want to try it!)

    How do I cook boiled mutton?

    You roast it.

    LOL.

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  181. Q says:

    Yep, it always comes down to food. Liberals love to indulge in all pleasures of the senses, that’s why they are obsessed with food and sex. They’ll happily let the country go to shite just for a good meal.

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    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    Dubya is the real liberal:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym70DouGV-Q
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  182. @Anonymous
    ......as that old Jim Davidson* joke goes 'no wonder Gandhi wore a diaper'.


    *celebrated English 'blue comic'.

    *nappy

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  183. @Anon87
    I'll take blood pudding and mushy peas any day over the smelly curry slop.

    Black pudden and white pudden yes, love me a breakfast fry-up; mushy peas, oh hell no.

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    • Replies: @Anon87
    I'll admit minty mushy peas were a bridge too far for me.
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  184. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @stillCARealist
    That makes no sense. The big diet crazes here all focus on fat and protein-heavy meals. Veganism is out and keto is in.

    Personally I like a balanced diet full of all possibilities.

    I think both veganism and keto are in right now. Some people are really into veganism, and others are really into keto.

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  185. @JSM
    How do I cook boiled mutton? (I'm serious. I want to try it!)
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  186. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Chrisnonymous
    I disagree.

    The quality of meat, poultry, and fish has declined since my childhood. To get a good porterhouse now, you have to spend upwards of $50 at a butcher's.

    And sun people cuisine is not based on fresh vegetables, it's based on using spices and strong flavors to prevent and mask spoilage. Yes, they generally don't have preserved foods because there is food available all year, but there is no Whole Foods logistics chain in sun people cultures either--really fresh year-round produce is ice people one-uping sun people.

    It's actually ice people cuisine that requires high quality ingredients. You can make palatable to pretty good Mexican food with shitty ingredients, but you can't make a decent pork chop without a decent pork chop. Similarly, you can pretty much just throw anything you want on a tortilla, but if you don't know what you're doing, your non-industrial sauerkraut will be inedible.

    Japan is the ultimate example of the way in which ice people food is dependent on quality ingredients and preparation techniques. If you take away the grain component, Japanese cuisine is basically non-tropical hunter-gatherer plus some preserved foods (pickles, miso, etc), and as everyone knows, Japanese cuisine is all about quality ingredients and technique.

    Japanese cuisine has to be among the most overrated. It was the ultimate exotic food because of the raw fish, but then people realized how plain Japanese food tasted and that they could indulge in exotic, fashionable food without really having to endure much exotic flavor and then it really took off.

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  187. @Old fogey
    It would be a real pity if no London restaurants were to serve well-made stewed lamb with leeks, turnips and other traditional English vegetables, wouldn't it? Or does just calling it "mutton" put everyone off their food nowadays?

    By the way, why don't we find pork chops and sauerkraut on our menus any more? Remember ham with pineapple? Mashed potatoes? I took a 90-year-old friend to dinner the other night and she was thoroughly disgusted to find that the menu featured more quesadillas, tostadas and "wraps" than anything she could easily recognize. And we had especially chosen to take her to an up-scale diner to make things as nice as possible for her. You know, something like the good old times. . .

    Real German food is good.

    But 1950s style filler like ham/pineapple and mashed potatoes are absolutely disgusting. People only ate that sort of stuff because it was convenient at the time.

    The best traditional foods in the Anglosphere are in the southern U.S.

    Comfort food without being disgusting. Not coincidental that southern-inspired restaurants are popular all over.

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  188. @notso whiteboy
    That invention is called a “cookbook.” Except most of the low-life visiting here lack the intellectual curiosity to buy a book especially one written by a (gasp) feriner (sic). Face it boys, Caucasians are NOT responsible for much in the culinary world. Escoffier - a frog. Bocuse - froggy also. Batali - Eyetalian. Samuelson - Swedish/Ethiopian (colored too!). Bastianich - Eyetalian. Chiarello - yup; greaseball too. Flay - 'Murican who cooks...Beaner foods! Keller - 'Muican who cooks Froggy food. Pepin - another damn frog (damn those freedom fries!).WAIT! Let's "build that wall" around France! Yup, them inglorious bastids are gonna mess with our grilled cheese, 'mater soup & nachos next!

    Frogs are quintessential Caucasians dude. The generic word for white/Westerner in many Middle Eastern languages (like Farsi) translates to “Frank” or “French person.”

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  189. @Q
    Yep, it always comes down to food. Liberals love to indulge in all pleasures of the senses, that's why they are obsessed with food and sex. They'll happily let the country go to shite just for a good meal.

    Dubya is the real liberal:

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  190. @Jack D
    I would bet that the numbers in the study are flawed. They come up with per capita meat consumption of something like 1.5 lbs per person per day which is just not plausible on a Chinese diet. Chinese food almost always presents meat as cut up bits mixed in with vegetables and eaten with rice or noodles. It is considered barbarian to wield knives at the table. HK cuisine has a certain amount of British influence (and affluence) and includes more meat than the traditional diet, but not THAT much more. In order to eat 1.5 lbs. of meat you'd have to eat an impossible amount of Chinese dishes. The people selling these numbers have an agenda ("reduce greenhouse gasses") and their numbers are about as believable as the Soviet grain harvest stats. Never trust a leftist - they are always serving a "greater truth" which is more important than mere facts - the agenda beats the truth every time.

    Maybe the numbers in HK are skewed by people coming over the border for the day from the mainland and eating in HK restaurants and/or taking the stuff back with them? The Chinese (with good reason) do not trust their food supply and trust the HK system much more because they see it as less corrupt. I know that HK had to impose limits on how much baby formula you could buy because Chinese were coming over and clearing out the shelves and HK women couldn't get formula for their own babies.

    Maybe the numbers in HK are skewed by people coming over the border for the day from the mainland and eating in HK restaurants and/or taking the stuff back with them?

    I doubt it. The vast majority of Hong Kong’s food comes from the mainland in the first place. Plus the standard of restaurants and food preparation in the mainland has skyrocketed; there are great places to eat even in provincial mainland cities.

    I think your first explanation is the one that survives Occam’s Razor: it’s a bad study. As you say, there is absolutely no way the average HK person is eating 1.5 pounds of meat a day. Lots of people here eat only tiny amounts of meat; they are far more likely to eat fish/seafood daily.

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  191. @Yee
    "Maybe the numbers in HK are skewed by people coming over the border for the day from the mainland and eating in HK restaurants and/or taking the stuff back with them? "

    No mainlander would go to HK to buy meat, because HK's livestock are almost all imported from mainland China. Meat is more expensive in HK than in China. Baby formula much cheaper, so mainlander will buy them.

    The reason for the HK's unreasonable amount of meat consumption is probably they import a lot of frozen meat from foreign countries and then smuggle into China. The custom has the import record but not export record, so it would appear as the meat are consumed in HK.

    The reason for the HK’s unreasonable amount of meat consumption is probably they import a lot of frozen meat from foreign countries and then smuggle into China. The custom has the import record but not export record, so it would appear as the meat are consumed in HK.

    That’s an interesting theory. Although mainland China produces plenty of good food itself, mainlanders are incredibly keen to try luxury imported products, including lots of food items. If specialty meats are being smuggled in to avoid luxury taxes, then your theory is plausible.

    So Jack, you may also be right.

    Anyway, it’s still possible it’s just a terrible study in which someone’s intentionally misreading or misinterpreting some data.

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  192. @The Wild Geese Howard
    The mutton was very gamey. It was rarely too tough.

    Heck, the beef over there has a strange, gamey taste. Not sure if it was the diet fed to the livestock or something else.

    Scrapie and BSE do take some getting used to, I confess. An education for your palate.

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  193. clyde says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard
    The mutton was very gamey. It was rarely too tough.

    Heck, the beef over there has a strange, gamey taste. Not sure if it was the diet fed to the livestock or something else.

    Thanks! I am always curious about mutton. As far as gamey beef goes, we usually eat grass fed beef at home. I cannot say it is gamey, but it must taste this way to some people, compared to feedlot fattened beef.

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  194. @Sarah Toga
    The two summers I spent in London in the late '70s we never worried about walking anywhere at whatever time.

    It’s not so much walking there as it is the glowers you get from the normal patrons. I did make a wrong turn onto a council estate near Tower Bridge one day, however, and had a very real need to feel concern for my safety.

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    • Replies: @Sarah Toga
    I hear ya. Even though I was a mush-brained college kid who believed egalitarianism gibberish (then - not now), I was aware I should not go to certain places. I had enough info to know what was open to "Yanks" on tour.
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  195. Anon87 says:
    @Rosamond Vincy
    Black pudden and white pudden yes, love me a breakfast fry-up; mushy peas, oh hell no.

    I’ll admit minty mushy peas were a bridge too far for me.

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    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    It tastes alright, it's the way it looks. Like something that came out of the wrong end of a baby.

    http://www.mellycooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/MushyPeasMellyCooks.jpg
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  196. Jeez, these progressive editorialists are dishonest. I was in London briefly in 1999 and ate at some great Indian restaurants.

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  197. @The Alarmist
    It's not so much walking there as it is the glowers you get from the normal patrons. I did make a wrong turn onto a council estate near Tower Bridge one day, however, and had a very real need to feel concern for my safety.

    I hear ya. Even though I was a mush-brained college kid who believed egalitarianism gibberish (then – not now), I was aware I should not go to certain places. I had enough info to know what was open to “Yanks” on tour.

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  198. @Anon87
    I'll admit minty mushy peas were a bridge too far for me.

    It tastes alright, it’s the way it looks. Like something that came out of the wrong end of a baby.

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  199. @Steve Sailer
    I ate at an Indian restaurant in London in 1965 when I was six.

    I ate at an Indian restaurant in London in 1965 when I was six.

    And lived. Impressive.

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  200. @Anon87
    I'll take blood pudding and mushy peas any day over the smelly curry slop.

    I’ll take blood pudding and mushy peas any day over the smelly curry slop.

    I made a curry latte a couple times, and it was quite intriguing. Salt and cinnamon help.

    Sure beats catnip tea.

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