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NYT: American Religious Fundamentalist Settlers Had It Coming in Mexico
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In other words, the NYT wants you to know that the American family recently murdered by the Mexican cartel had it coming, for the usual Current Year antiquarianist reasons.

They’re not immigrants, they are settlers!

Unmentioned: The Romneys were run out of Mexico during the Mexican Revolution of the 1910s. The Mexican government paid them a cash settlement for their lost land in 1938 as part of its nationalization of foreign oil interests: the leftist government wanted to dot the I’s and cross the T’s to show it wasn’t stealing the oil, it was paying compensation to the oil companies. So it went ahead and did the same for some Americans like the Romneys with old claims going back to the chaotic Revolution.

It actually shows that Mexico has often been less violent than it is at present.

For example, I knew a Mennonite (monogamous, of course) (or perhaps a Molokan, who are like Russian Mennonites) who was born on a farm in Baja California. Mennonites are more or less pacifist, so the huge Mennonite migration (often from Canada) into Mexico, beginning in the 1920s, suggested a lot of trust in the ability of the Mexican state to provide law & order. What’s the Matter with Mexico is an interesting topic, but one that doesn’t come up much in the U.S. in the 21st Century.

UPDATE: It turns out Ervil LeBaron was not a pacifist. From Wikipedia:

Ervil Morrell LeBaron (February 22, 1925 – August 15, 1981) was the leader of a polygamous Mormon fundamentalist group who ordered the killings of many of his opponents, using the religious doctrine of blood atonement to justify the murders. He was sentenced to life in prison for orchestrating the murder of an opponent, and died there.

He had at least 13 wives in a plural marriage, several of whom he married while they were still underage, and several of whom were involved in the murders.

Thanks to commenters.

 
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  1. Approaching wokeness levels cascading to singularity.

  2. IIRC, wasn’t the Romney clan once a part of that history in Mexico?

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  3. Anonymous[305] • Disclaimer says:

    settlers = bad

    immigrants = good

  4. @The Alarmist

    IIRC, wasn’t the Romney clan once a part of that history in Mexico?

    Indeed, they were (and are). Back in 2012, Vice actually did a pretty interesting documentary on the Mormon clans in Mexico and their conflicts with the cartels. Some of the people in this documentary might have even been involved in the massacre.

    • Replies: @anon
  5. anon[217] • Disclaimer says:

    What would “Mormon fundamentalism” even look like? How does Ms. Dias know if the now-dead people were practicing that? How does “fundamentalism” justify murder?

    We are required to purity spiral over black hair, black bodies, trans, women of any color; are we now supposed to purity-spiral over religion too? Except for Islam, of course. That’s special. Because Islam is right about women, or something.

    Hey, is Islam right about gays?

  6. Anonymous[356] • Disclaimer says:

    O/T…New Lows in White Death.

    Childless “dog mommy” in Ohio is attacked by her rescue dogs. Instead of calling ambulance, she continues her morning routine of booze and prescription pills, passes out, dies of injuries. Boyfriend, returning from jail, finds her.

    https://local12.com/news/local/police-woman-found-dead-in-her-waynesville-home-was-attacked-by-her-great-danes-dogs-cincinnati-mary-matthews-dale-luke-mauling-mauled-killed-ohio

    • Replies: @Dhyan Chand
    , @prosa123
    , @nymom
  7. @Tipsy

    Thanks? Maybe that’s who I met? I could well imagine my getting Russian pacifist Molokan settlers in Mexico confused with Prussian pacifist Mennonite settlers in Mexico …

    • LOL: Tipsy
    • Replies: @Tipsy
    , @reactionry
    , @Reg Cæsar
  8. anon[217] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    Mormon clans in Mexico and their conflicts with the cartels

    Lots of people have conflicts with the cartels. There are non-government militias in Guerrero and other states engaged in a war of assassination vs. cartels. Not quite civil war, not yet anyway.

  9. El Dato says:

    The settlements in northern Mexico have been plagued by violence in the past. In 2009, gunmen in the town of Colonia LeBarón killed Benjamín LeBarón, a Mormon anti-violence activist, as well as his brother-in-law, Luis Widmar.

    Why so direct with the violence plague?

    Shots rang out and Benjamín LeBarón, a Mormon anti-violence activist, as well as his brother-in-law, Luis Widmar, shuffled off this mortal coil

    There. Much better.

  10. J.Ross says:

    In the Vice documentary (which briefly discusses golf architecture, because of course the Mormons have a golf course) they also show that for some mysterious reason the patch of Mexican dirt upon which the Mormons landed is evidently magic — no litter, no graffiti, tidy lawns, beautiful buildings, prospering farms.
    The Mormons attempted to obtain guns legally and — being Mormon — had jumped through every hoop and filled out every form. They just needed a signature from the local Mexican mayor. Instead of recognizing that they had jumped through every hoop he handed the registry of prospective gun owners over to the cartels.

  11. anonsolo says:

    It’s so sad there is no where left in America for American settlers at least nothing they can afford and no jobs. Certainly no farm land. All these Americans with no home having to eek out an existence in foreign lands, hated whereever they go., if only they had ruby slippers and could go home.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  12. ChrisZ says:
    @Anonymous

    Good catch.

    NYT’s ugly little pretensions are so tiresome.

  13. @J.Ross

    for some mysterious reason the patch of Mexican dirt upon which the Mormons landed is evidently magic — no litter, no graffiti, tidy lawns, beautiful buildings, prospering farms.

    That reminds me of the old joke about how the U.S. is especially evil because not only did it annex half of Mexico, but it also took the good half with all the paved roads.

    • Agree: houston 1992
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @avoncalling
  14. Win Chism says:

    Not what is being implied don’t be dishonest

    Also trump is gone

    It’s over. Oh, I know the Trump backers will continue to push stupid conspiracy theories and Senate Republicans will resist bc their only hope for re-election depends upon placating idiots, but for the rest of us – the people with fully functional brains – it’s over. He did it.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/05/us/politics/impeachment-trump.amp.html#click=https://t.co/Fg69Mxbd4S

    This is

    It’s over

    He is a traitor

  15. Tipsy says:
    @Steve Sailer

    What’s interesting in the article was the eventual fate of the Molokans. After legally acquiring the land from the Mexican government in the first decade of the 20th century, the Molokans worked hard to build up their farms and towns:

    In carefully preserved photographs and home movies, the early decades of life at the colony have the appearance of a sun-drenched utopia. … The farms prospered as well. Neat rows of alfalfa and grapevines marched up and down the lushly rolling valley.

    That utopia, however, eventually came to an unhappy end:

    The idyll ended in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Hundreds of landless Mexican settlers streamed into town. They stormed up to the farms and announced they were taking over, saying the Molokans weren’t real Mexicans.

    “They put on hats like Pancho Villa and carried signs that said, ‘Death to the Russians,’ ” said Augustin Lopez, who is part Russian.

    The Molokans pleaded with them. They showed a signed proclamation from Mexican President Porfirio Diaz, granting their rights to the land.

    “They didn’t consider you a Mexican citizen,” said George Mohoff, who was born and raised in the Guadalupe Valley, but now lives in Los Angeles County. “They said, ‘Why do you have so much and we have so little?’ ”

    But the Molokans were pacifists, unwilling to use guns and fists to hold on to their land. The settlers kept coming, and the Molokans “were left with broken hearts,” Mohoff said.

    I’ll leave the 21st century parallels as an exercise for the readers.

    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @Ragno
    , @Anonymous
    , @Geronimo
  16. My Dad occasionally tells the story of some Mennonite cousins from Canada, that stayed at their farm in Kansas for a bit, in the 1930’s before moving on to Mexico. He said at the time they were very poor, but in Mexico, they did well for themselves.

  17. Jesse says:

    Y-e-es, but the fundamental question – of just what the hell they were doing there in the first place – is sound.

  18. @Anonymous

    Settlers build, immigrants take advantage of what settlers built.

    • Agree: Liza, Hail, Redneck farmer
  19. Jake says:

    “What’s the Matter with Mexico is an interesting topic, but one that doesn’t come up much in the U.S. in the 21st Century.”

    Well, it would cause a great deal of trouble all around to address why Mexico now is going to Hell in every sense.

    It is all bound up with why those Mennonites were no threat to the 1920s revolutionaries who controlled Mexico.

    Mexico is in a long process of rejecting the full import of the Virgin of Guadalupe. Quite simply, Mexico was saved from all the horrors of Aztec culture by embracing Catholicism and the culture of Catholic Spain. All Modern Mexican history is a slow rejection of that embrace. All phases of Mexican revolution are about rejecting European culture and Catholicism in favor of indigenous cultural syncretism and anything that is anti-Catholic in religious terms. The British planting both major schools of Freemasonry in Mexico out of trade concessions was the necessary fuel for the fire that ignited Mexican revolution.

    The results we see now and in the recent past are logical and natural outcomes of the various stages of Mexican revolution. And it will get worse if Mexican revolution is not itself rejected, undone.

    • Agree: sayless
    • Replies: @Thomas
    , @bomag
    , @S
    , @nymom
  20. I’ve heard of Americans who went to work down in Mexico during the depression. But by the 70s, Mexico had a bad reputation which only got worse.

    Many will blame drugs, but I wonder if White Mexicans had been slowly emigrating out and it finally reached a tipping point?

  21. Anon[142] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s not possible to be a Hispanic billionaire without having some cartel business in your background. No doubt Carlos Slim, the NYT owner, has hired them from time to time to kill off people in Mexico he thinks might do his business interests some damage, or to murder rival business men. That’s why he commanded his tool to write a pro-cartel article.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Charlemagne
  22. Anon[142] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    Isn’t it amazing how Mexicans think paved roads grow on trees, and that white people never went to the trouble of actually building them? How stupid can they get?

  23. Bruno says:

    I have met a (wealthy) mexican guy here in Paris the other day.

    He told me that his grandmather migrated in 1992 to the USA because of cartels. Her husband died and he had textiles companies and was ransomed. She sold the business and went with her two sons to Los Angeles. They did well : South California University and Rice.

    But now, he told me the cartels are in the USA threatening them again. So the grand-mother staid but they decided to migrate to France and Italy. All 11 family members, except the grandmother, have left the USA in 2015 for Europe. He says his parents and cousins, and himself, are not safe in the USA now because mexican know they have businesses and money and are threatening them again.

    He told me there is no state in Mexico. If you are threatened, there is no person in public services to turn to with trust.

    • Replies: @bomag
    , @Alden
  24. pirelli says:

    Re “what’s wrong with mexico,” IMO it mostly comes down to an exceedingly corrupt judicial system, which in Mexico has very limited independence from the executive branch. For example, to date, all governors accused of corruption have escaped trial. Bribery enforcement has been virtually nil despite recent reforms. The OECD has lots of reports on this for anyone interested.

    Economically Mexico is actually doing fairly well. Their exports have been rising despite declining oil production, and in this century they’ve managed to keep an edge in manufacturing competitiveness even against China. The problem is really with the lack of independence of the judiciary and resulting absence of enforcement mechanisms to combat corruption and bribery.

  25. Dumbo says:

    Mennonite migration (often from Canada) into Mexico, beginning in the 1920s, suggested a lot of trust in the ability of the Mexican state to provide law & order. What’s the Matter with Mexico is an interesting topic

    Latin America received a large influx of German and Italian immigrants in the 19th and early 20th century, also other groups such as Poles, Irish and Lebanese. Many mennonites in Brazil too. Perhaps the region was not the best place in the world, but it was also not the worst.

    I think the big problem in Mexico and in much of Latin America is really related to drugs. Mexico was more pacific once, and the same is true of Brazil, both countries always had a large number of poor people, but violence increased a lot since the 60s, when drug traffic started to take root, and poor/low IQ people had access to easy money and guns.

    90% of the violence and corruption in Mexico is probably related to the cartels.

  26. If a Mexican cartel member kills a Moslem, does the NYT have sympathy for the victim?

  27. Mike1 says:

    The intro is ridiculous but everyone calling them American is as well. They have been in Mexico for almost 100 years. I’m not sure how long it takes before you are from somewhere but a century seems like that is where you are from.

    My heading: Mormon Mexican Polygamists with US passports and a history of violent interactions killed in their neighborhood.

    • Replies: @Lugash
    , @notsaying
  28. Whiskey says: • Website

    Bottom line we are very short from boxcars running to camps to solve the White problem. White women and a few older White men are fine with that. Indeed they welcome it to get rid of the hated White beta male. Same with White gays. They figure it will only be deplorables working for freedom.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  29. Polygamy in Mexico was like abortion in Puerto Rico– illegal on paper, but unenforced in practice. A policy that would attract a certain kind of American.

    Mexico, like Haiti later, did something similar with divorce. But when the locals started to take advantage of the loophole, it was ended.

  30. @Dumbo

    I noticed a huge change between 1986 and 1996 in number of guys standing around in Baja California holding submachine guns. Probably had to do with Mexico taking the cocaine smuggling business away from Colombia.

  31. The battles between the Mexican drug cartels are basically a turf war. They are fighting for control of the prime spots along the border to smuggle drugs and people. By building a wall, it is going to make the competition that much more fierce. When the holes where one drug gang is getting through are plugged, they will be forced to invade a rival gangs territory with the obvious consequences. Keep building the wall and get out the popcorn.

  32. @Hypnotoad666

    But now all our paved roads are paved by Mexicans, because the Mormons refused the work. Now all their people are down in Mexico sifting sand for ant farms or something.
    I don’t see almost any americans doing any of obama’s work projects and they do a lot of them especially out in the back country where the new immigrants are moving so they have better communication with their family who live in other lands or something. I always thought those people moved out there to be away from it all only to find out they are the thick of it for their area, Must be good work for those -Americans, houses built for them everywhere but the poor white Mormoms just shot dead in ole Mexico.

  33. syonredux says:

    It actually shows that Mexico has often been less violent than it is at present.

    Dunno:

    [R]epetition of the mantra “this is the bloodiest era in the country’s history since the Mexican Revolution” (Analysis, 4 April) does not make it true. The Cristero (Catholic) insurgency of the late 1920s (ie after the revolution) generated homicide rates of 200 per 100,000 (the standard metric), compared to 24 per 100,000 in 2011; more significantly, the homicide rate in 1940 was 67 per 100,000; and even circa 1960 – when no revolts happened and the “Peace of the PRI” (the then ruling party) prevailed – it was higher than it is today.

    Alan Knight
    Professor of the history of Latin America, Oxford University

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/10/mexico-murder-rate

  34. @Steve Sailer

    What took away the Cocaine trade from the Colombians was our ability to detect and intercept boats that were smuggling the drugs. They became sitting ducks. Once that became too dangerous, the Mexicans stepped in due to their proximity to the US.

  35. Corvinus says:

    “In other words, the NYT wants you to know that the American family recently murdered by the Mexican cartel had it coming, for the usual Current Year antiquarianist reasons.”

    LOL, no, Mr. Sailer. You are projecting those sentiments for your own designs. The NYT made no direct or indirect reference. But I suppose now and then a salacious dig is ample fodder for your zealous adherents.

    “They’re not immigrants, they are settlers!”

    A history lesson for Mr. Sailer, along with the proper context of words. The Mormon colonies in Mexico are settlements located near the Sierra Madre mountains in northern Mexico which were established in 1885 by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Many of the original emigrants came to Mexico due to American government efforts attempts to curb and prosecute polygamy. Generations later, U.S.-Mexico border towns remain home to communities of fundamentalist Mormons, who speak both English and Spanish and hold dual citizenship. The bastards!

    • Troll: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @syonredux
  36. syonredux says:

    Of course, every once in a while, Mexico gets superduper violent:

    New Spain (Mexico), War of Independence (1810-21) 425,000
    Clodfelter: 400,000-500,000 violent deaths, Mexicans and Spanish
    Scheina, Latin America’s Wars, p. 84: “Estimates of the number killed range from 250,000 to 500,000 individuals”
    Juan González, Harvest of Empire: A History of Latinos in America: 600,000 died in Mexico’s War of Independence.

    Mexican Revolution (1910-20): 1,000,000
    The population explosion of the 20th Century is so pervasive that populations have continued to climb during most of the bad times listed on this page; however, the intensity of the Mexican Revolution is such that the counted population of Mexico actually declined from 15,160,369 in 1910 to 14,334,780 in 1921. So how many people died in the war?
    Most scholars are rather vague:
    “conservatively estimated at half a million” (Peter Calvert, Mexico, 1973)
    “perhaps a million” (C. Cumberland, Mexican Revolution: the constitutionalist years, 1972)
    “estimated at 1 million” (Crow, The Epic of Latin America)
    Encyclopedia Americana (2003), “Mexico”: 1M lives
    “at least a million” (Wallechensky)
    “perhaps 2 million” (R.J. Rummel, although he later tightens his estimate to 2,142,000)
    “as many as two million” (T.R. Fehrenbach, Fire and Blood, 1973)
    War Deaths:
    Wallechensky: 200,000
    Small & Singer: 250,000
    Rummel: 200,000 battle deaths + 125,000 incidental civilian deaths
    Enrique Krauze, Mexico : Biography of Power (1997): 250,000 combat deaths; 750,000 of disease/hunger
    Eckhardt: 125,000 civ. + 125,000 mil. = 250,000
    A detailed online analysis can be found at (http://www.hist.umn.edu/~rmccaa/missmill/mxrev.htm%5D “Missing millions: the human cost of the Mexican Revolution” by Robert McCaa. He estimates 1.4M excess deaths due to war.

    • Replies: @Geronimo
  37. syonredux says:
    @Corvinus

    Generations later, U.S.-Mexico border towns remain home to communities of fundamentalist Mormons, who speak both English and Spanish and hold dual citizenship. The bastards!

    Indeed. Dual citizenship needs to be abolished.

  38. fish says:
    @Redneck farmer

    If a Mexican cartel member kills a Moslem, does the NYT have sympathy for the victim?

    It depends on which of them is undergoing gender reassignment.

  39. Ragno says:
    @Tipsy

    I’d be interested to learn what has since become of that Molokan land.

  40. @Redneck farmer

    My take is in the current year progressive stack, Mexicans are #1. I feel like there is almost nothing they could do at this point that would elicit any level of outrage from the media or politicians aside from Trump and Cruz. And the woke left loves them because they consider them brown and helpless, and they deliver the food that AWFLs are too lazy and incompetent to make themselves.

    I still think half of Washington is on the payroll of the cartels.

    • Replies: @Dissident
  41. @syonredux

    This is a culture whose greatest historic cultural achievement is creating massive monuments to literal human sacrifice.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  42. anon[217] • Disclaimer says:
    @Win Chism

    trump is gone

    Moar $hills! Pure entertainment! Bring moar $hills & troll$ !

  43. Dtbb says:
    @Win Chism

    Drink my just Win Chism.

    • Replies: @Dtbb
  44. northeast says:
    @Win Chism

    Mark Meadow’s just shot down this nonsense…words taken out of context, again, by the press & the democrats.

  45. Anonymous[159] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tipsy

    The idyll ended in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Hundreds of landless Mexican settlers streamed into town. They stormed up to the farms and announced they were taking over, saying the Molokans weren’t real Mexicans.

    Were these the people kicked out of the U.S. by Eisenhower?

  46. If one does a web search on the LeBaron clan, one can’t but help thinking this was karma. This is a polyg offshoot of the LDS church, as the founders were good Elders once upon a time. ,,, Seriously, polygs play rough, as anyone that has spent time in Short Creek or noticed how the sects obtain new bloodlines. Hint; Mountain Meadows set the precedent. While this episode demonstrates just how ruthless the Cartels can be, a realistic person would have been returned to Zion, Deseret or just plain Utah by now. What is basically shows is that White people have no business around browns unless heavily armed. Our forebears at the Alamo learned this the hard way, and apparently the lesson need by retaught, and not forgotten this time.

    • Replies: @OscarWildeLoveChild
  47. Ian Smith says:
    @Anonymous

    Unless said settlers are in the West Bank.

  48. Read more at https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/19820625.pdf

    “The Soviet Union
    has helped to consolidate revolutionary regimes in Nicaragua and
    Grenada, has provided considerable aid—mainly through proxies and
    other third parties—to revolutionaries elsewhere in Latin America, and
    has intensified its efforts to develop favorable political and economic
    ties with such countries as Argentina, Brazil, and Mexico. Despite this
    intensified interest, geographic remoteness has tended to relegate Latin
    America—except for Cuba—to the periphery of Soviet security
    concerns.”

    Even in countries where the USSR’s policy is keyed to developing
    bilateral state-to-state ties, as in Mexico, Moscow continues to conduct a
    variety of covert activities and other “active measures” to improve its
    position and play upon doinestic vulnerabilities over the longer term.
    These activities include:
    — Funding local Communist parties and front organizations.
    — Disseminating disinformation and forgeries aimed at the
    United States.
    — Drumming up support for hemispheric revolutionaries.
    — Infiltrating military and security services as well as other
    important sectors of Latin American bureaucracies.
    — Manipulating the media and mass organizations.
    — Developing and using agents of influence, mainly through the
    Cubans.
    The Soviets are also educating numerous Latin American and Caribbean students in the USSR, cultivating organized labor, and profiting
    from the growth of pro-Marxist sentiments among religious activists.”

  49. @Anonymous

    “Great Danes”.

    • Replies: @Charon
    , @Hypnotoad666
  50. @Steve Sailer

    NAFTA, short and simple. Bill Clinton suppressed a DOJ report that foresaw the rise of the cartels due to stuffing semi-trucks full of product. The American middle class could not understand the concept of ‘Mordida’, that in a Latin country even seemingly legitimate businesses are run like the Mafia. Americans still find it hard to comprehend just how crooked Mexico is. Imagine Al Capone as a business model, with no IRS to bring him down. Vincente Fox was my favorite. Coca- Cola exec, Presidente; Mob boss. Anyway, the Columbians never did distribution; they’re in Columbia. What happened was the increased unmonitored truck traffic lead to high shake down fees for the cartels. What were once organizations on the economic level of Crips and Bloods were now major powers, with the total lack of scruples the comes with being Brown. Imagine La Eme being allowed to exist on the Outside. There is a reason that Commiefornia pays CO’s 6 figures.

    If you want to know the source of the Cartel income just look and Bill and Hillary and remember Mena and Barry Seals. Pretty obvious really

  51. @Win Chism

    they got blormpth this time. They’ll be leading him out of the white house in hand cuffs any day now.

  52. prosa123 says:
    @Anonymous

    She wasn’t childless. Her son had picked the husband up from jail. Also, from the photos in the linked article it looks like an expensive house.

  53. @Jesse

    Not in this context.

    Imagine if a clan of Central American migrants or illegal aliens from Mexico were murdered by a gang of white criminals, some of whom had white power prison tattoos.

    You think the Times would run a story headlined: “Mass murder of migrants highlights long history of illegal immigration”?

    • Agree: fish, Charon
  54. Of course this LeBaron cult (Church of the Firstborn of the Fullness of Times) got its start with by murdering a dozen or more of other competing mormon cult members in the Apostolic United Brethren; a number of whom were family members. Evril Jr was sentenced to 45 years in 1997.

    Probably was cartel gunfire, but the cult carried out a 3-part coordinated murder in the US over sectarian disagreement.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Ervil Lebaron
  55. anonymous[251] • Disclaimer says:

    I have spent a lot of time with LDS Mormons (LDS don’t like the term “Mormons” anymore) . They are generally very good people, make good neighbors. LDS Mormons tend to really really suck at politics especially on the nation destroying subject of mass immigration. Today’s LDS Mormons will go to great pains to tell you:

    “We’re not racist anymore”, plus “The US Government and traditional American population used to discriminate agains us, so we can’t discriminate against alien people like Mexicans or Muslims. In this sense the LDS Mormons are a lot like idiot Lib Leftist Irish and of course the Jews.

    LDS Mormons were the once that kept re-electing John McCain to the US Senate in Arizona.

    If you are looking for a sane, traditional American Christian church where it’s still OK to be a heterosexual English speaking White American guy – the LDS Mormon church looks good at first, then the longer you are there the more it sucks.

    Also, LDS Mormons tend to be really , really boring public speakers and this transitions over to having really boring and out of touch LDS Mormon political leaders like Orin Hatch and Jeff Flake and that McMuffin guy the J Neo Cons convinced to run for President in Utah to try to steal the Presidential election for Hillary.

    Looks increasingly like there aren’t any American Christian church denominations not taken over by hostile feminists, homosexuals, people of color with a chip on their shoulder.

    Anybody here of some solid, growing Pagan religious communities”

    J Ryan
    Left Behind in Chicago

  56. J.Ross says:
    @Anon

    Salim hasn’t had effective control of the NYT for at least a year and while coverage of Mexico slacked off under his suzerainty there are no clear cases of command performances.

    • Replies: @Charon
  57. Dtbb says:
    @Dtbb

    Auto correct got the j and s in the right place but the word was supposed to rhyme with Chism. I didn’t get the edit feature either.

  58. J.Ross says:
    @hooodathunkit

    They had a bad leader, who was responsible for all that (and continued to exert influence after his death), but that was over in the 80s. There is no reason to see the Mormons as something other than good guys and victims here. When the killing was going on it would have been a news-unworthy bucket-drop by current Mexican standards.

    • Replies: @Lugash
  59. Imagine if they’d been Jewish settlers killed in Palestine.

    Get out the haloes — and we’d just be getting started.

    • Agree: Tlotsi
  60. Completely OT: Speaking of Things We Can’t Do Anymore:

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/a29684597/voyager-2-interstellar-space-results/

    The two Voyager spacecraft have left our solar system and are now in interstellar space.

    They were launched in 1977. 42 years ago.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    , @Lot
  61. @anon

    What would “Mormon fundamentalism” even look like?

    It’s a euphemism for polygamy, which the Mormons originally practised. The mainstream LDS abandoned polygamy in 1890 so that Utah could be accepted into the Union. The Mormons who persist with polygamy belong to small breakaway LDS denominations.

  62. Wilkey says:

    The brutal killing of 9 members of an American family in northern Mexico

    They are either Mexican or American. They aren’t both. These families chose to live in Mexico so they wouldn’t have to live under American law. We should honor that choice by denying them American citizenship and American passports. They aren’t just some Americans who decided to live in Mexico for a while. In some cases they’ve been living in Mexico as “Americans” for five or six generations.

    • Agree: S. Anonyia
    • Replies: @Ervil Lebaron
  63. TGGP says: • Website

    Carlos Reygadas’ film “Silent Light” is set in Mexico but in the Plautdietsch aka “Low German” language of its Mennonite characters.

  64. Responsible people don’t raise their families in lawless territory. It wasn’t a question of if but when some relatives would be killed by cartel violence. I’m sorry for their loss but it’s of no greater significance than that of ethnic Mexican civilians being killed by these thugs in their own homeland.

    • Agree: Jesse
    • Replies: @Thea
  65. But the families’ location in the path of Mexico’s gun violence has cost them dearly in the past:

    The Mormon family was located in the path of Mexico’s gun violence like being the path of a tornado or a hurricane. Gun violence in Mexico is a force of nature that cannot be predicted or prevented.

    Mexican gun violence is not a willful criminal act, just something that “happens”.

  66. Hodag says:

    I once read a book in the early 1990s about the Ervil LeBaron clan called ” Prophet of Blood ”

    Those folks are craaazy. It was like a full amphetamine James Ellroy nonfiction book where he ends up in Mexico and Northlake, IL.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
  67. Kyle says:

    A good family friend of ours was shot in Mexico in a drive by shooting this year. She and her husband were on vacation. Her pelvis was shattered and she’s had complications and multiple surgeries. I only found out about it this last weekend when I talked to her son at my brothers wedding. I tried googling her name but I haven’t been able to find any news stories about it. Don’t go to Mexico unless you have a good reason to, and if you do try to stay safe. My brother is in Mexico right now on his honeymoon, I begged him not to go but he just doesn’t understand my point of view.

  68. J.Ross says:

    The New York Times, ladies and gentlemen:

    Popeyes has struck a special chord for African-Americans — specifically, that its celebrated sandwich tastes like something that could have come from a black home kitchen.
    One Twitter user, @RocBoy_Mel, wrote Sunday that he did not know whose “grandma” made the sandwiches, “but I finally got my hands on one today and I was very impressed.”
    In a video clip that went viral on Twitter after the fast-food sandwich was introduced in August, a white host on the news and entertainment show “Daily Blast Live” tried the sandwich, and her black co-host asked, “Does that taste like a neighborhood you’ve never been to?”
    The Popeyes sandwich, she added, tasted “like it was cooked by an older black lady named Lucille.”
    Black people were saying they liked the chicken not just for its taste, but also for the feelings of home cooking it evoked. It was the type of chicken they could take to a family potluck and not get a side-eye.
    Popeyes would not provide information about its customer demographics. But over all, African-Americans, who are about 13 percent of the country’s population, buy more fried chicken than their numbers would indicate: nearly 30 percent of all fast-food fried chicken, and 15 percent of all breaded chicken sandwiches, according to the NPD Group, a market research firm.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/05/dining/popeyes-chicken-sandwiches.html

    Russian hackers seeking to divide our society and encourage doubt about our institutions, especially our establishment press:

    …Anonymous (ID: ge56+4dB)
    11/05/19(Tue)18:05:48 No.232248669
    I can’t think of anything more irrelevant than this.

  69. Lugash says:
    @Mike1

    Yep. They apparently have American citizenship, yet have resided their entire lives in Mexico. It sounds like birth tourism to me.

    If you reside outside of what you call your country for more than a decade your citizenship should be reviewed.

  70. Lugash says:
    @J.Ross

    They seem to be entangled in that Nxvium sex slave cult. I don’t know if I’d call them innocent.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  71. @Win Chism

    Radio & TV host Sean Hannity has been covering the other side for years; might be of interest to look at his website:

    https://hannity.com/

  72. @anonymous

    I have a lot of family that are Mormon, my dad jacked so I’m not. Looking at genealogy, it appears to me the old line came from the original English immigrants to Massachusetts, then moved to Rhode Island and later to New York, where they got kindled in the great burning. The old line were intelligent folk partial to religious structure, but not sympatico with the families that controlled New England post 1630ish. Family-focused and good people overall, but not strong on restricting immigration. Looking at Mormon strongholds in the Mountain West, Utah and South Idaho are strong in economic development. Mormons also appear to be doing well in Arizona and Oregon. Again, they’re no dummies, and Romney, Flake, etc. are likely finished politically.

    • Replies: @fish
    , @Mike1
    , @Joe Smith
  73. @Redneck farmer

    If a Mexican cartel member kills a Moslem, does the NYT have sympathy for the victim?

    The New York Times is a Mexican cartel.

    • LOL: Hypnotoad666
    • Replies: @Charon
  74. @Jesse

    Despite my hatred of woke journalism, I agree. Don’t go live in dangerous countries. Also dual-citizenship should be ended.

    I know a well-educated couple with 2 sons (and another baby on the way) who are subversive missionaries in a country with a dangerous authoritarian government that isn’t friendly to Christianity. I honestly wouldn’t feel sorry for the guy if something happened. I would feel sorry for the woman and their children though, because they are just kind of being dragged along into the husband’s flamboyant, ridiculous adventurism.

  75. J.Ross says:
    @Lugash

    The major theme of the Mexican cartels has been excess: almost nobody they kill, even their colleagues, deserves what they get.

  76. @anonymous

    They may be boring speakers because they eschew caffeine and alcohol (if they take their religion seriously). That tends to rob a person of some of the life experiences/socialization necessary to be an interesting person. Avoiding one substance is nutty enough, but both?

  77. Charon says:
    @Dhyan Chand

    Thanks for the correction. I shouldn’t be surprised that the mass media can’t get basic facts right.

  78. Charon says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Do you really need correcting on this again? If people here are so thoroughly and consistently confused about something as obvious and important as control of the NYT, we really are without hope.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  79. Charon says:
    @J.Ross

    Sigh. He never had anything remotely resembling control of the NYT. He once held a minority of NON-voting shares.

    Fun ethnic typo on the name though.

  80. Wilkey says:
    @Hodag

    I once read a book in the early 1990s about the Ervil LeBaron clan called ” Prophet of Blood ” Those folks are craaazy.

    Polygamy is an unstable system, and only unstable people would want to live within such a social system. Grown men want to live in it because of the sexual advantages it provides. But in order to “benefit” from that you have to be willing to drive out a lot of young men, including sons, nephews, and cousins, and marry girls who are marrying you only because they’re told to. And then there’s sexual competition between the grown men, as well. And the girls you’re competing for are often close relatives, at that.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  81. @Steve Sailer

    Given that Reg Caesar recently posted something about Russian colonization of Hawaii, it was disappointing to find that the etymology of “Molokai” is disputed and probably *not* a cognate of “Molokan.”

    https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g29221-i1825-k4401548-What_does_Molokai_mean-Molokai_Hawaii.html

    [MORE]

    (Molokai is, of course, famous for its colony of people suffering from leprosy aka Hansen’s Disease which should not be confused with Group A streptococcal pneumonia – which is not known, except perhaps to fans of The Muppets, as “Jim Henson’s Disease.”)

    According to Wiki, “Molokan” is translated from Russian as “…’milk-drinker, nursing infant’… Named for their heresy of eating (including dairy foods), instead of fasting, during Lent.” Making the thumb-and-forefinger sign” for “OK” (originally as in “W” and “P” for “White Power” and now “It’s OK to be White”?)and boasting of the ability to digest milk sugar/lactose as an adult are considered to be indicative of “white supremacy” – and therefore “tabu,” but, knowing less than diddly squat about linguistics, I haven’t the foggiest if “Molokan” qualifies as a “tabu word.”

    It is likely that most, if not all, human societies have tabus against incest and unless something less worthless (such as going to bed or getting [ahem] “tipsy”) to do comes up, I’ll try to follow up by very, very, very tenuously “linking” Rachel Maddow to incest….

    • Replies: @reactionry
  82. @Wilkey

    So it’s okay to rape and murder white women and children as long as their citizen status is dubious?

    You (((People))) have such a great way with words. F***king animals

    • Replies: @Wilkey
  83. @hooodathunkit

    That being said, no human deserves to watch their women and children and babies being ritualistically raped and murdered by Cartel Aztecs

  84. For example, I knew a Mennonite (monogamous, of course)

    Is there another kind?

  85. Geronimo says:
    @Tipsy

    One must be armed an ready in Mexico. Duplicity is the name of the game. Just ask the Yaquis, or the Christianeros. Fight to the death, and your survivors will have something. Expect quarter, and your last memories on earth will be watching your women and children raped, then have their hearts pulled out before being eaten.

  86. @anonymous

    I would agree with that assessment. As a religion it seems to attract some extremely credulous people, and where there are large groups of credulous people there are other people looking to take advantage. So I’ve noticed the vast majority of LDSers are extremely honest law abiding aw-shucks Mayberry types with some con men sprinkled in.

    Not unique to LDS, of course, you see it in all religions, just a matter of degree.

    This credulousness, combined with a thirst for respectability, makes them very vulnerable to chasing whatever crazy cultural fad–hence being very pozzed on immigration.

  87. Geronimo says:
    @syonredux

    Mexico has always been that way. Before that hated Cortez burst the SJW bubble, human sacrifice was day to day business in the Aztec Empire. But all the ‘civilizations’ of the new world played that game, some more efficiently than others. Blood sacrifice, cannibalism, and child murder. Sounds like a Talmudic paradise.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    , @Anon
  88. @Win Chism

    Trump’s not over. What’s over is the West, with or without Trump, unless some sort of Deus ex machina salvages it. Otherwise the supremacists will force those they projemptively accuse of being “supremacists” to cut the life support of the urban areas to undo the demographic ballot booth stuffing.

  89. 90 percent of the violence in Mexico would be alleviated if AMLO the current President legalized all drugs completely. His Morena party has majorities in the Legislature so it could be done. The last 10 percent would be alleviated if AMLO made it legal for every Mexican to carry a firearm.

    It is as simple as that. AMLO promised grand reforms but so far has only pushed for a civilian National Security force, seemingly forgetting that previous Presidents’ policy of using the police and the army against drug cartels have made the problem worse not better.

    AMLO is proving to be a disappointment somewhat on par with Trump’s promises not being fulfilled. Both countries are moving into the Strong Man territory, where a leader comes into power that will take the broad controversial measures needed to end the problems. \

    Meanwhile, arm yourselves and push to decriminalize drugs (like Portugal, over 15 years ago did).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  90. @Wilkey

    Polygamy is an unstable system, and only unstable people would want to live within such a social system.

    China had polygamous systems for at least three thousand years with plenty of stable people.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @syonredux
  91. ‘China had polygamous systems for at least three thousand years with plenty of stable people.’

    Much of Christian Europe and Latin America had de facto polygamy as well. The junior wives were called ‘mistresses.’ Often, there was nothing surreptitious about the arrangements at all, and they would lead to complete, stable househoods.

  92. Blogger says:

    I don’t read Steve Sailer anymore, just the occasional quick glance to see if there is something worthwhile—-he reads ever more as an aggrieved whiny bitch. Easily triggered, and just overall a whiny bitch. He is EXACTLY the thing that he decries in others.

    He LOVES it when mainstream writers mention him, a whiny hypocrite.

    • Troll: Hail
    • Replies: @Neuday
  93. @J.Ross

    Hahaha I saw that.

    Those damn crackers, always hogging the magic dirt everywhere they go.

    In that documentary it is heavily implied that they maybe do have some firearms, though. Wink wink.

  94. @Steve Sailer

    Thanks? Maybe that’s who I met? I could well imagine my getting Russian pacifist Molokan settlers in Mexico confused with Prussian pacifist Mennonite settlers in Mexico

    The pacifist Doukhobors would stage protests in the nude– in Canada. They’re the ones who should have gone to Mexico!

  95. @reactionry

    Idiot Post #2

    OT follow up of Molokai, Molokan, Maddow, Honey Mead….

    “Maddow,” as in Rachel, is not a cognate of “Meadow” as in “Langewiesche” (as in William L., “What Really Brought Down The 737 Max”) which is translated as “long meadow.”
    https://genealogy.stackexchange.com/questions/14924/what-is-the-meaning-of-the-german-surname-wiesch

    A thought occurs that a “long meadow” might be something better to crash-land upon than, say, a high mountain,” if not a river, as in “Miracle on the Hudson” – not to be confused with a Russian (Rachel’s grandfather emigrated from Russia or thereabouts) “Moscow on the Hudson.”

    Nope, “Maddow” is derived from “Medwedof” which surely cometh from the Russian “Medved” – “honey eater” – a “tabu word” for bear, not linked to the Indo-European cognates of “Arthur,” “arctos,” “Ursa” (as in “Major”) and the former major babe, Ursula “Undress” Andress. It’s an uneducated guess that those cognates came from a proto-Indo-European-someone growling “Rrrrrrrr” to designate a furry non-friend. “R,” btw is the name of the lead recovering zombie in “Warm [not black] Bodies.”

    “Medved” is found within “Dmitri Medvedev,” who for all we know, might have at some point given a great big Russian bear hung to Barack “More Flexibility” Obama. “Med” with a long “e” (not a clue how to do those linguistic thingees) might be a word meaning “sweet” as in “mead” – found in “Mede” as in the moving finger or flying fickle finger of fate’s “…your Kingdom will be dvided between the Medes and Persians, “or, what was really “sweet” (wish I’d thought of it first) “One man’s Mede is another man’s Persian.”

    – have shambled (not to be confused with a golf “shamble”) off-course, but will head to Minnesota for finishing up “Maddow’s” tale of forbidden familial fornication…..

    – enough for now

  96. @Daniel Chieh

    China had polygamous systems for at least three thousand years with plenty of stable people.

    Sure, if you were a warlord or an emperor. It wasn’t Warren Jeffs taking all the teenage girls in town.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  97. syonredux says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Polygamy is an unstable system, and only unstable people would want to live within such a social system.

    China had polygamous systems for at least three thousand years with plenty of stable people.

    Polygyny is certainly a stable way of running things, but I’m not sure that it’s compatible with democracy…..

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  98. @Dhyan Chand

    Those are obviously pit bulls, not Great Danes.

    Which would make sense. Great Danes, despite their size, are one of the least agressive dog breeds around. They are big, slobbery, uncoordinated and lazy. But they basically wouldn’t hurt a fly.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  99. Bill P says:

    If this wasn’t a case of mistaken identity the Mormons must have been involved in something that made someone extremely angry. Even the cartels don’t just gun down moms with little kids. This is approaching the Escobar airliner bombing level of violence.

    Maybe there’s a remote possibility it was a political killing, like a response to the Wal-Mart shooting, but the fact that it seems coordinated by a gang, it was carried out on a remote stretch of the highway and nobody claimed responsibility (yet) makes that look unlikely for now.

  100. @syonredux

    Polygyny is certainly a stable way of running things, but I’m not sure that it’s compatible with democracy…..

    Opponents of the Nineteenth Amendment would say, “Not every suffragist is a Mormon, but every Mormon is a suffragist.” By today’s standard, our polygamists were 50 years ahead of the rest of the country in democracy.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  101. @Hypnotoad666

    They are big, slobbery, uncoordinated and lazy.

    Their neighbors would say that about the regular Danes, too.

    Denmark is seen, both by themselves and the others, as the most laid back country. Sweden see Danes as lazy and without self-control ever…

    https://satwcomic.com/sweden-denmark-and-norway

    • Replies: @S
    , @Hypnotoad666
  102. Anonymous[280] • Disclaimer says:

    Catholic cultures have a long history of brutalising Protestants, or anyone they perceive to be “Protestants”, ie non-Catholic. A deep hatred of Protestants still persists in most majority Catholic country, in Europe today that remains particularly the case in Ireland but massacres and expulsions of Protestants was common in all of Catholic Europe until recent times.

    Today it’s not politically correct to say this, we’re supposed to forget the past and pretend that Catholics are the victims but anyone who knows anything about the religious history of Europe knows that most of the time Catholics have been the aggressors.

    • Replies: @Thea
    , @Jesse
    , @JMcG
  103. The Romneys and the LeBarons differed in one significant way.

    Romney:

    LeBaron:

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Colin Wright
  104. Thomas says:
    @Jake

    Mexico is in a long process of rejecting the full import of the Virgin of Guadalupe. Quite simply, Mexico was saved from all the horrors of Aztec culture by embracing Catholicism and the culture of Catholic Spain. All Modern Mexican history is a slow rejection of that embrace.

    I’ve heard this elsewhere. Modern Mexico looks terrifically savage if you look back a hundred years but not if you look back five hundred years.

  105. Reminds me of a Sailer classic black or mormon where we have to guess whether the utah st. quarterback accused of sexual assault was black or mormon because with names like Ervil its not a no brainer.
    I got good laughs sharing that with blacks and mormons.Never met a mormon in Boston but know a bunch here in Vegas.Have to say the Mormons im friends with pretty solid folk.My oldest daughter went to school with some of the kids of some polygamous reality tv family.
    And off topic….the system which corrects everything shitty bout college football http://www.lawrencepoints.com

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  106. 22pp22 says:

    Off topic.

    For the benefit non-American Sailerites, could someone who lives in the US explain if and why the election result from Kentucky as serious as the press in UK/NZ/Oz is saying it is.

    Even the “right-wing” press is about as trustworthy as CNN.

    • Replies: @Hail
    , @Jesse
    , @J.Ross
    , @Colin Wright
  107. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @restless94110

    For Mexican citizens the gun situation is weird. There are laws that are not enforced and there are laws that are vigorously enforced. So it might be one level of illegal to have a 26″ barreled shotgun or a 1911 in .38 Super but a whole other level of illegal to have a 18″ barreled shotgun or a pistol or rifle firing a “military cartridge”.

    Almost all Latin countries prohibit owning firearms in military calibers, some just in the calibers in current use there and some, all military calibers. This is so that the military stocks of ammo are not stolen and sold on the black market. They will say it’s anti-revolutionary somehow, though.

    Many countries explicitly grandfather in guns people already own and many others officially do not but informally do, which is why in Europe there is a market for nearly every old pistol and revolver cartridge you can think of and manufacturers like Fiocchi manufacture batches every so often. They still made pinfire cartridges in France well into the 1970s!

    Mexicans with legal US papers buy 1911s in .38 Super, usually nickel, chrome or stainless, all the time but rarely in 9mm or .45 ACP. Partly that could be because of preference but since Mexicans, particularly women, buy 9mms all the time for purse guns and for recreational range target shooting (ranges here let women shoot free on Wednesdays) we suspect many or most of those guns go back to Old Mexico.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  108. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    LeBaron was a coachbuilding house that did a lot of prewar luxury Chryslers and became absorbed into the company:

    LeBaron Incorporated

    For other uses, see LeBaron.

    LeBaron Incorporated (originally LeBaron, Carrossiers Inc.) was an American design business from 1920 and also a coach building company from 1924 until 1953.

    LeBaron was one of the many prominent coachbuilders in the 1920s to provide bodies for luxury cars. Until World War II most of the great prestige automakers — Rolls-Royce, Hispano-Suiza, Duesenberg, Packard — would readily supply only a running chassis which wealthy buyers would have fitted with custom bodywork. It eventually became part of Chrysler Corporation.

    LeBaron, Carrossiers Inc. free-lance design consultants was founded in New York City in 1920 by American designers Raymond H. Dietrich (1894-1980) and Thomas L. Hibbard (1898-1982) who had met while working for Brewster & Co.[1] Dietrich and Hibbard remained among the Brewster personnel so they invented a new name LeBaron, Carrossiers from a list of French words that could be easily pronounced but still sounded impressive.[1] Within twelve months Brewster learnt what they were doing and ended their Brewster & Co business relationship. They found more work and Hibbard offered the LeBaron administrative jobs to his friend, Ralph Roberts, who had just gotten his Bachelor of Science degree from Dartmouth College. Most design work came to LeBaron through dealers.

    The great Chrysler collector Frank Kleptz, after he had become the first private owner of a Chrysler Turbine Car, told me he still far and away considered his Lebaron bodied roadster the showpiece of his collection: the TC was a nice bauble, but the big 8 was the piece de resistance.

  109. Hail says: • Website
    @22pp22

    It’s just more HateTrumpGate gossip that media types seem to like very much.

    The Kentucky Republican, Bevin, was polling well behind for local reasons. Trump decided to go and campaign for him and therefore personalized it. Trump cannot resist “grabbing the mic.”

    (from Politico):

    [A]nother major theme was [Republican] Bevin’s at-times abrasive personality. Over the course of his first term [as governor], Bevin courted controversy that contributed to his poor poll numbers. He said he intentionally infected each of his nine children with chicken pox, rather than have them vaccinated. He blamed the accidental shooting of a 7-year-old girl on organized teacher sick-outs.

  110. @syonredux

    Also relevant, Mexican immigrants to America have always been violent, as well: https://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2018/08/10/the-myth-of-european-assimilation/
    (See the Crime and Literacy section)

  111. @bigdicknick

    So Neil Young was wrong about pre-Cortez The Killer Mexico?

  112. @Anonymous

    Interesting. I have heard that under some circumstances Mexicans can own guns, but didn’t know all the ins and outs about that. I do know that bringing a gun from the US across the border is vigorously punished.

    However, no matter what people are doing with guns, there clearly are not even close to enough of them doing it. The numbers of killings are common, ongoing, astounding, and though a lot of it is narcos killing narcos there are also the kidnappings for ransom that end up usually with the killing of the kdnappee, the killing of shop owners who can’t or won’t pay the cobra de piso, the just general killing of someone who looked at a thug the wrong way, the killing of political and police officials and their relatives, the killings of people in the arts who flaunt their stuff to cartels or figures in the cartels, the killings of those in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    It’s clear that everyone should b e packing heat and I do mean everyone. But that’s also the issue in Mexico: even if you are able to obtain one, you can’t carry a gun or a knife in public. Thus only outlaws carry guns and knives (and machetes) around in public.

    I’m pretty sure that Mexican elites don’t want the citizenry to be armed due to the chance of revolution. I was surprised at how quickly Mexicans started talking that way when the Federal government took away some prices supports and gas prices went up about 2 years ago.

    Nevertheless, the Mexican leadership can either allow the further deconstrution of Mexican society (due to rampant murder, extortion, and kidnapping) or it can arm the citizenry and risk the deconstrution of the country in a revolution of some sort. After 20 years of murder and mayhem with upwards of 100,000 dead or missing presumed dead, it’s clear that the police and the army can’t make a dent and in fact it’s getting worse.

    Just as the war on drugs is a gigantic 50 year failure, the disarming of the citizenry only invites chaos and death.

    One small Mexican town has thrown out the police, and has their citizens armed guarding all roads in. Their violence level has gone down to near zero. Other citizen vigilantes have done same or are trying to in other parts of the country. Still, someone said an armed society is a polite society.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  113. My favorite black name Elvis Peacock….followed by
    Catman Struthers
    Mookie Blalock
    Rajon Rondo
    Orenthal James Simpson

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Tlotsi
  114. @Bostonvegas

    Elvis Peacock’s backfield mate at the U. of Oklahoma: Horace Ivory, wasn’t bad:

    Oklahoma Downs Nebraska OnTouchdown in Final0:38
    Nov. 27, 1976
    https://www.nytimes.com/1976/11/27/archives/oklahoma-downs-nebraska-on-touchdown-in-final-038.html

    LINCOLN, Neb., Nov. 20 (AP)— Two pass plays set up a 2‐yard scoring run by Elvis Peacock, a halfback. with 38 seconds left in the game today to give eighthranked Oklahoma a 20‐17 Big Eight. Conference football victory over Nebraska. No. 10.

    The victory gave Oklahoma a share of the conference title and sent. another Big Eight. team, Colorado, into the Orange Bowl lo meet Ohio State….

    Horace Ivory, Peacock’s running mate in the Sooner backfield, totaled 101 yards on 17 carries and Peacock ran for 88 as Oklahoma amassed 357 yards on the ground. Nobraska got 183 yards on the ground, but its quarterback, vince Ferragamo, could connect on only nine of 21 passes in the strong winds.

    ‘Cargoes’
    Quinquireme of Nineveh from distant Ophir,
    Rowing home to haven in sunny Palestine,
    With a cargo of ivory,
    And apes and peacocks,
    Sandalwood, cedarwood, and sweet white wine.

    Stately Spanish galleon coming from the Isthmus,
    Dipping through the Tropics by the palm-green shores,
    With a cargo of diamonds,
    Emeralds, amethysts,
    Topazes, and cinnamon, and gold moidores.

    Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack,
    Butting through the Channel in the mad March days,
    With a cargo of Tyne coal,
    Road-rails, pig-lead,
    Firewood, iron-ware, and cheap tin trays.

    John Masefield

    • Replies: @Bostonvegas
  115. @Jim Don Bob

    The two Voyager spacecraft have left our solar system and are now in interstellar space.

    They were launched in 1977. 42 years ago.

    And Voyager 2, with its 20 watt transmitter, is still sending data from 12 billion miles away, and we’re still picking it up. Fantastic.

    Still, it’ll be defunct in 10 years, long before it hits the Oort Cloud in around 350-400 years from now. We’re gonna need a bigger power source.

  116. LondonBob says:
    @Geronimo

    Always amazes me how people don’t make the connection of present day violence in Central America to the violence of the civilisations there before Cortes arrived. Really just a case of continuity.

    • Replies: @Geronimo
  117. I’m waiting for Fred Reed’s take.

  118. Thea says:
    @miss marple

    This attitude is why we have a white birth dearth. Bloom where you’re planted or go extinct.

  119. Thea says:
    @Anonymous

    The Irish situation is more about ethnicity than religious differences. They aren’t blowing each other apart over differences regarding scriptural interpretations. Neither side is very religious these days.

  120. Ervil Morrell LeBaron = Lovelorn Mr Reliable..

    • LOL: fish
  121. Anonymous[286] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonsolo

    Nonsense!

    The Midwest is very low density populated

    All that is needed is some populist Midwest governor to announce a new homestead act and open up government owned land or worse agribusiness corporate land to settlers

    Also mayors of rust belt citied can give abandoned city properties to approved college grads with the stipulation the college women get married and start a family

    You g people gays and artists already do urban homesteading just make it a land rush

    Where are the populist governors with vision?

  122. @syonredux

    Mexico is violent, because the Aztecs like Canaanites, are some of the most violent, brutal people on the planet that would murder children without losing any sleep.

  123. Anonymous[286] • Disclaimer says:
    @restless94110

    No

    Your views are pure libertarian 2nd Amendment fantasy – not at all practical given racial cultural realities

    When the local populations go down to the worst 3rd world Shudra levels , Mogadeeshu Somalia levels, Gaza Strip , Malmö Sweden slum levels – or the 95% lowest class Black African American areas 2 miles to the West of where I live – it s pure insanity to let everyone have whatever guns and drugs they want .

    Total insanity – collapse of civilization insanity .

    • Replies: @restless94110
  124. @Warren Jeffs

    which begs the question, will there be retaliation from this LDS offshoot? I was figuring they haven’t survived there for 100 years by not defending themselves. And in the past, Mormons were quite good at self defense.

  125. @Dumbo

    Not much mentioned of NAFTA but part of the push for it was the chimera that if US and Canadian corporations did business in Mexico, that it would start to force a greater transparency and lower the corruption. As best I can tell, there is no evidence of that. Same for technology and computers. It is almost as if they are still using donkey carts.

    Another factoid, nobody hates Mexicans more than Mexicans. The European part looks down on the Indio part, and the Indio part thinks their European part is scum. Their civil war is inside themselves.

  126. @ j ross-
    not for nothing, as whitey mcwhiteface a cracker as can be, BUT not only do i LOVE fried chickens, i do -in fact- LOVE that chicken from poopeyes ! ! ! the spicy version, anyway, the regular chicken is okay…
    i don’t care if they put crack cocaine in it, that spicy chicken is GREAT… the local poopeyes restaurant itself is a disgusting mess, and half the time the drink machines are broke or empty, and the employees are slackers and diffident; but i go to pickup the spicy chicken, not the ambience…
    guess as a born/bred southener, the fried chicken thing is to be expected… but i do gross SWMBO out when i eat chicken or turkey butts… i like big butts ! ! !
    a big ole turkey butt, some fried okra, dirty rice, a moon pie for dessert, and wash it down with an insulin-shock-inducing sweet tea… life is good, bitchezzzzz ! ! !

  127. bomag says:
    @Jesse

    what the hell they were doing there in the first place

    Seems like the time to complain about that has come and gone.

  128. fish says:
    @Neil Templeton

    Again, they’re no dummies, and Romney, Flake, etc. are likely finished politically…..

    From your lips to gods ear!

  129. Wilkey says:
    @Ervil Lebaron

    So it’s okay to rape and murder white women and children as long as their citizen status is dubious. You (((People))) have such a great way with words.

    Yes, that’s exactly what we all said…nowhere in this thread. We were commenting on the logic of calling the people in these Mormon colonies “Americans,” and letting them still be Americans even after, in some cases (see Mitt Romney’s cousins), they’ve been living in Mexico for 4-6-8 generations. The brutality and cruelty of the Mexican cartels is without question, and a subject of many posts on Steve’s blog. And you won’t see any more support for Israeli dual citizenship from us so-called (((people))) than for those in the Mormon colonies.

    So stick around and check them out, “Ervil,” unless you’re too busy raping your 14-year-old niece/celestial bride. I live in Utah. I know how you fundamentalist Mormons do things.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
  130. Jesse says:
    @Anonymous

    Wait. What? I hate the Catholic church as much as anyone but that’s not true about Ireland.

  131. Lot says:
    @Jim Don Bob

    Left wing science-haters tried to kill Cassini, the last of our great deep space probes. Cause it was like, radioactive, man. What if it blows up and crashes into Disney World?

    http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9710/04/cassini/

    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
  132. S says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    They are big, slobbery, uncoordinated and lazy.

    Their neighbors would say that about the regular Danes, too.

    ‘Denmark is seen, both by themselves and the others, as the most laid back country. Sweden see Danes as lazy and without self-control ever…’

    Hehe..

    And let’s not forget the ‘Great Danes’ as they were called such as Sven-Ole Thorsen who along with Arnold Schwarzenegger was in the 1982 Conan the Barbarian flick. And, yes, Thorsen is indeed from Denmark.

    As can be readily seen, often big, uncoordinated, and out of control at times. Not so sure about the slobbery and lazy part, though. 😉

  133. Anon[324] • Disclaimer says:
    @Geronimo

    If you have ever seen some of the cartel’s execution videos (one is enough), they have a very weird Aztec aspect to them. Surprised more people do not discuss this. Lots of dismembering, flaying, and removing organs, while the victims are still living. Small crowds mill about silently and watch, as if a butcher were simply preparing a chicken.

    If Cortez were told about this, he would probably say,”Yep.”

    • Replies: @anon
  134. Jesse says:
    @22pp22

    In the short term? Eh, maybe. The governor was a doctrinaire Paulista, wanting to shank teachers and destroy benefits. In the real world, people really, really like teachers and things like Medicaid.

    In the medium up long term, Kentucky is doomed. In the short term, it was a complete repudiation of trucon dogma, so obviously the trucons are shrieking about Trump.

  135. The British planting both major schools of Freemasonry in Mexico out of trade concessions was the necessary fuel for the fire that ignited Mexican revolution.

    And don’t forget association fútbol.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_C._Crowle

  136. bomag says:
    @Jake

    All phases of Mexican revolution are about rejecting European culture and Catholicism in favor of indigenous cultural syncretism and anything that is anti-Catholic in religious terms.

    This excuses too much.

    The mixed race Indios that make up Mexico need to look around and figure out the rule of law; non-violent settling of disputes; and not incentivizing killing.

  137. bomag says:
    @Bruno

    If you are threatened, there is no person in public services to turn to with trust.

    Welcome to the world of Trump supporters.

  138. Jack D says:
    @Brutusale

    Highly recommend the book. There are really a lot of parallels between (the original and modern day fundamentalist versions of) Mormonism and Islam. Both were originally and to some extent still are quite violent.

    However, mainstream Mormonism has largely been housebroken (while Islam never has). The turning point (which was when Romney’s ancestors took off for Mexico) was when Wilford Woodruff, the 4th Mormon president, received a “revelation” from God that plural marriage was henceforth forbidden. Coincidentally, this revelation came at a time when Utah was seeking statehood and the Federal government was putting heat on them Later, it was “revealed” that black people could be Mormons officers and were not cursed by God as previously revealed to Joseph Smith, so I guess Mormon Jesus keeps up with the Overton Window and sends revelations as necessary – it sure seems that way. The housebreaking continues with mainstream Mormonism becoming increasingly woke and increasingly indistinguishable from other mainstream Protestant religions.

    Will there ever be a Muslim Reformation? A defanged and feminized and woke version of Islam equivalent to Reform Judaism or mainstream Protestantism?

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
  139. That’s more like it.

    ‘A 13-year-old survivor of the attack by suspected Mexican drug cartel gunmen on a convoy of US Mormons hid six siblings in bushes before walking 23km (14 miles) to get help, his family said…’

    Of course, this is the lily-white scion of a bunch of antediluvian nut jobs. Nothing to do with today’s America.

  140. @Reg Cæsar

    ‘The Romneys and the LeBarons differed in one significant way…’

    Hey, don’t talk shit about the Rambler. That was the first car my parents owned when they got married.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  141. Mike1 says:
    @anonymous

    I don’t blame you for missing a lot. Mormons are trained to lie.

    – LDS is the same as using “Mormon”. The church wants the words “Jesus Christ” in every mention of the organization. This is to confuse the fact that they are not Christian. In fact, they believe Christians worship the devil.
    – Mormon spiritual books keep repeating that people with dark skin are cursed by God. This is current belief. They constantly change their spiritual books if they wanted to modify this belief they would just edit them.
    – Mormons are explicitly pro-immigration. It has nothing to do with history and everything to do with creating a theocracy.
    – You are confused that it is ok to be a “White American guy” in the Mormon religion. It is obviously a white religion but they are all related. You can technically join and they pretend to proselytize, but apart from giving at least 13% of your income to the organization you will not be one of them. They believe they are Jews who migrated to the US 600 years before Christ and they belong to designated Jewish tribes. Anyone who thinks they are joining a group that believes they have millennia of bloodlines in the US is deluding themselves.

  142. J.Ross says:
    @22pp22

    tldr the real story is Virginia, which everybody should have seen coming way back when they enfranchised felons, oh but hey at least we have Mississippi. What is the GOP plan for not having Texas? Is it “more legal immigration than ever before” and “maybe if we speak a couple of words in Spanish they won’t want us to die”?

  143. Mike1 says:
    @Neil Templeton

    From what I can tell the group you are from came from Northern England (particularly around Liverpool). Does this match what you know of your history?

    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
  144. @Jack D

    that black people could be Mormons officers and were not cursed by God

    This happened about the time BYU realized they didn’t have enough team speed.

    • Replies: @anon
  145. @22pp22

    ‘For the benefit non-American Sailerites, could someone who lives in the US explain if and why the election result from Kentucky as serious as the press in UK/NZ/Oz is saying it is.’

    While you’re at it, explain it for the benefit of us American Sailerites as well.

    …the media is choosing to accord it ‘significance’ because they hate Trump, and it’s not the outcome Trump wanted. Never mind the soaring economy, and what usually happens to incumbents when the economy soars — ‘Trump lost’ in Kentucky. He’s doomed!

    …but no fear. The establishment still has a year to crash the economy. Of course, they have even less than a year to come up with a plausible candidate. Right now, Warren is about their best bet, and she’s about as appealing as John Kerry, Al Gore, and that whole line of Democratic losers that have handed the Republicans so many, many terms in the White House.

    It’ll be fun — as long as you keep a detached perspective.

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
  146. S says:
    @Jake

    The British planting both major schools of Freemasonry in Mexico out of trade concessions was the necessary fuel for the fire that ignited Mexican revolution.

    Yes, not widely known for whatever reason, but the UK, and to a somewhat lesser extent the US, in violation of neutrality declarations, double-teamed Spain to wrest her South and Central American colonies from her with massive military support to the insurgents there. The US would finish the job with the Spanish American War of 1898.

    Via arms sales between 1815-1824 to the South and Central American revolutionaries, Britain provided seven hundred thousand muskets, one hundred thousand pistols, two hundred thousand sabres, and much ammunition.

    Two hundred and fifty newly decommissioned modern British warships with their British crews were ‘made available’ as well to the South and Central American revolutionaries. In total, about ten thousand British ‘volunteers’ were sent to fight from the UK.

    Their importance was such that Simon Bolívar would described the [British Legions] and all who served in them as “the saviours of my country”.

    And what in reality the British intervention in Spanish South and Central America had always been about (emphasis mine):

    ‘The British declined any agreement with the Spanish government that would ensure the continual rule of their South American territories, partly in order to monopolise the important emerging markets of South America.’

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_intervention_in_Spanish_American_independence

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Legions

    • Replies: @Hank Yobo
  147. nebulafox says:

    > Both were originally and to some extent still are quite violent.

    The notion of religions being pacifistic at all is to some extent a modern innovation. The fact that military victory signaled divine favor back in the old days played a major role in the rise of both Christianity and Islam: had Constantine been a Manichean or had the Umayyads decided to not explicitly delineate their own specific faith, history would be quite different. The previous generation of religions before them were explicitly tied in with city-states or nations, and as such were inherently tied into their military fortunes on Earth.

    (I also don’t think this is a Western thing: Buddhism is often passed off as a “non-violent” religion among hippies, but that hasn’t always been true, whether we’re talking about the Ikko-ikki movement or modern Sri Lanka. Non-universal is not remotely the same thing as peaceful.)

    In the broad historical sense, Western Christianity as it has developed and Reform Judaism are outliers. I found Vladimir Putin’s comment that he thinks Orthodox Christianity as having a lot more in common with Islam-the two having coexisted since the conquest of Kazan-illuminating.

    >Will there ever be a Muslim Reformation? A defanged and feminized and woke version of Islam equivalent to Reform Judaism or mainstream Protestantism?

    I don’t think there’s going to be an equivalent to the Protestant Reformation, strictly speaking, because mainstream Sunni Islam is more akin to the “Protestant” role already: there’s no impetus to break free of corrupt institutions and go back to the roots like there was for Martin Luther because the Sunni majority is already inclined to that on a lay level, and has been arguably for centuries even since the beginnings of globalization. As far as the Catholic/Protestant comparison goes, only in the Middle East do the Shi’ites pose a massive presence, and there, the conflict takes on ethno-religious connotations that resemble modern Yugoslavia far more than 16th Century Europe.

    How Israel manages to cope with Orthodox Judaism might provide a better use case. Islam has more in common with Orthodox Judaism, both theologically and in terms of practice, than it does with any form of modern Christianity. Needless to say, the irony is lost on Muslims.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  148. Alden says:
    @Bruno

    It’s very common on the American side of the border for mex American businesses to pay extortion money to mex mafias. Large or small, every business pays.

  149. nymom says:
    @Anonymous

    According to the article the woman and her husband/boyfriend were both heavy drinkers…I don’t think the rescue organization properly vetted them before letting them adopt these dogs. Great Danes are notoriously gentle giants, so they must have been put through a lot with this family to become vicious…the article said the dogs were extremely skinny and locked on a terrace covered with their droppings…no food or water in sight…

    I give money to animal rescue groups and don’t want to think we fund them to rescue animals only to have the animals placed right back in a bad situation all over again…

    • Replies: @Alden
  150. Anonymous[588] • Disclaimer says:

    As a general rule, the more violent the people, the more pacifistic their religion. The reverse is also true.

  151. Anon[325] • Disclaimer says:
    @Win Chism

    Did what? Why are you coming to this site and linking to a discredited Fake News source like the New York Times? What a clown.

  152. nymom says:
    @Jake

    I think what happened in Mexico is similar to what happened to Haiti in the 60s…Both the Dominican Republic and Haiti share the same island and have similar histories. Up until the 60s their population numbers and GDP were about the same; but, suddenly either Haiti started falling behind or the Dominican Republic starting pulling ahead because today they are in complete contrast to one another.

    Today the Dominican Republic is the only country in the Caribbean that had any growth and Haiti is the poorest country in the Western hemisphere. Even though they share an island.

    I think that the Haitians were encouraged to totally reject Western civilization by their loony left whereas the Dominican Republic still remains Christian. The Haitians were actually furious with the Dominican Republic when they erected a large lighthouse honoring Christopher Columbus and it is now a huge tourist draw. Today the Dominican Republic has a brisk tourist industry; whereas, even aid workers have to be careful in Haiti it’s so dangerous…

    Rejection of Western civilization, Christianity, literacy, agricultural processes, private ownership of property, etc., has destroyed Haiti and I believe it is the same thing in Mexico.

  153. Jack D says:
    @nebulafox

    Islam has more in common with Orthodox Judaism, both theologically and in terms of practice, than it does with any form of modern Christianity. Needless to say, the irony is lost on Muslims.

    Until modern Zionism, Jews mostly got along quite well in Sunni Muslim lands, although the deal was that they had to be subordinate to Muslims at all times. Certainly from the POV of food the Jews of Muslim lands got the better deal because they able to eat most of the local diet with minimal adaptation.

    Things were rougher for the Jews of Persia since Shia doctrine deemed the Jews to be ritually impure like dogs and dead bodies, although their treatments seems to have varied between cities and over time. Shia treated Jews more similarly to the way they were often treated by Christians – periodic forced conversions, accusations of blood libel, clergy using them to stir up the masses, etc. It’s really amazing that the community survived at all.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @Alden
  154. nebulafox says:
    @Jack D

    Dhimmis were dhimmis, with demonstrably monotheist ones being a social grade above the others. Who were more unapologetically monotheist than the Jews? Moreso than the Christians with their Trinity. This was particularly prominent during the initial conquests before Islam had matured as a faith, as the Arabs also viewed the Jews as kin. Things got more even-handed shortly afterwards because Mu’awiyah and Co. realized that the majority of their subjects were Christians, not Jews, but even the local Christians-largely Monophysite-might not have missed imperial rule all that much. As for the communities out in Babylon and Susa, I’m not sure if they even would have paid much attention to the regime change.

    Still, it varied from time and place: there was a notable downgrade in conditions in the Muslim lands as the centuries went by, especially after the final implosion of the caliphate, though as always, “downgrade” is relative and fluid. I don’t think it is coincidental that around the same time, Eastern Christianity’s position started to be eroded for good.

    (One particularly interesting case: the position of the Jews in Umayyad Spain struck me as akin to the position of ethnic Chinese in Suharto’s Indonesia or ethnic Germans in Russia. The government needed talent, and the indigenous population/elites didn’t have it, so someone else needs to lead the way. Turn urn ’em loose to make money and science and they’ll be protected and allowed to grow rich… as long as they don’t get too uppity or there isn’t a pressing need for a scapegoat. It wasn’t exactly the romantic “tolerance” of liberal imagination-see the Grenada pogroms-but nevertheless, you’d much rather have been a Jew in Cordoba than Mainz or London-or the 18th Century Pale. Honestly, you could do way worse in a multi-confessional or multi-racial society than people having a pragmatic need for each other and getting along based on that. Way better than people not needing each other and butting heads.)

    >Things were rougher for the Jews of Persia since Shia doctrine deemed the Jews to be ritually impure like dogs and dead bodies, although their treatments seems to have varied between cities and over time.

    Islam’s fixation on purity and cleanliness smacks of the unstated but massive Zoroastrian influence that came into the religion. Christianity and Islam are basically half-brothers: they come from the same Jewish skeleton, but were most influenced in their maturation by different cultural matrices-Greco/Roman vs. Persian.

    I never knew that about Persian Jews, though: any elaboration as to why they did survive?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  155. nebulafox says:
    @nymom

    I’m not sure that’s true. Dominican Republic and Haiti are vastly different, racially and culturally: Dominican Republic is Spanish/mestizo, Haiti is African. They also had different colonial histories. Mexico has more in common with the former than the latter. Our favorite SOB, Trujillo, was already ethnically cleansing Haitians-who he openly viewed as racial inferiors-as early as the 1930s.

    I did not know that about the GDP comparison. Haiti has been a mess throughout its deeply tragic and ugly history. Was the Dominican Republic also a a mess, and has boomed economically in the last 50 years? It’s an honest question, I don’t know much about that part of the world.

    • Replies: @Anon
  156. @J.Ross

    “The Mormons attempted to obtain guns legally and — being Mormon — had jumped through every hoop and filled out every form. They just needed a signature from the local Mexican mayor. Instead of recognizing that they had jumped through every hoop he handed the registry of prospective gun owners over to the cartels.”

    Yeah, I saw that Vice documentary a while ago.

    I think the Mormons need to take the gloves off. There are 1 million Mormons in Mexico, according to a recent news story. Plus, Mormons are highly over-represented in the US military, FBI, DEA, etc.

    This is not a group with a history of pacifism. The leadership had a team of assassins who would kill on command. Time to let them go on the cartels. A Mormon convoy headed across the border to deal out some payback would probably not raise the ire of the Mexicans the way a US military retaliation would.

    At the very least, send in a kill team to capture and vivisect some of the cartel leaders.

    • Replies: @anonsome
    , @Joe Stalin
  157. Muggles says:

    A group of white American citizens (who live in Mexico w/ dual citizenship), all women or children, are viciously attacked in northern Mexico by machine gun wielding cartel narcos? Killed and/or burned to death?

    No news here for the NYT. Why did they even bother with this? I guess it was to remind readers that Americano whites who (legally) migrated to Mexico are responsible for Mexican cartel violence. If these LDSers weren’t driving those big black SUVs they would still be alive today. So it was their own fault. Merely a case of mistaken identity.

    See, American “migrants” can also cause crime in Mexico. The Times reminds us that we are not without sin ourselves. The only reason Mexico hasn’t built its own Wall on the border is their humanitarian belief that Americano migrants might need a safe refuge from well documented persecution of old school Mormons by other Yankees.

  158. Anon[356] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox

    No discussion of Haiti and the Dominican Republic would be complete without a photo of their border. Haiti, a naturally forested country, will be without forests in two decades.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @Charlemagne
  159. @nymom

    ‘… I think what happened in Mexico is similar to what happened to Haiti in the 60s…Both the Dominican Republic and Haiti share the same island and have similar histories. Up until the 60s their population numbers and GDP were about the same; but, suddenly either Haiti started falling behind or the Dominican Republic starting pulling ahead because today they are in complete contrast to one another…’

    The population of Haiti has a much higher proportion of black DNA than that of the Dominican Republic. No nation that is as black as Haiti ever has or ever will be able to come reasonably close to modern standards of civilization.

    Others may fail; blacks will never succeed. You might as well try to teach your beagle to read.

  160. @Reg Cæsar

    Sweden see Danes as lazy and without self-control

    It just goes to show that you don’t need third world immigration to have diversity and multiculturalism.

  161. anon[217] • Disclaimer says:
    @William Badwhite

    This happened about the time BYU realized they didn’t have enough team speed.

    Heh. But no, it was more like “about the time the IRS was looking at revoking the church’s tax exempt status”.

    • Agree: William Badwhite
  162. anon[217] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    It is no accident that the Santa Muerte cult has been spreading in Mexico for years. Any image search will turn up disturbing stuff. You can buy this object online.

  163. @nymom

    Calling the Duvaliers leftist is a bit of a stretch.

  164. anonsome says:
    @jbwilson24

    I don’t know what made me dream it but spud or potato cannons may be the way to go in Mexico if you’re there and not allowed a weapon to protect yourself. If only they knew ahead of time.
    It’s a DIY hobby.

    https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/how-to-make-a-potato-cannon/

  165. @jbwilson24

    “I think the Mormons need to take the gloves off. ”

    Considering that John Moses Browning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Browning ) was Mormon (BAR, M1911, M1919, etc.) and so is Alex Robinson (XCR rifles), the Mormons are certainly capable of taking “the gloves off.”

    • Replies: @Mike1
  166. Alden says:
    @Jack D

    Persian Jews are now and always were very wealthy. Persia always had huge populations of other than Shia Muslims and everybody got along. Unlike European and American Jews, they never joined the Tudeh Persian communist party.

    They get off the plane and a week later buy either a million & a half dollar 2 bedroom condo or 5 bedroom 7 million dollar house in Beverly Hills, Bel Air, Brentwood Encino. The Zoroastrians moved to Malibu where they have their Temple.

    Back in 1979,80 after the Shah was overthrown a lot of those poor desperate Persian jewish refugees ended up in Presidio Heights, North of Lake Street, Sea Cliff, St Francis Woods in San Francisco, 300K, half million dollar houses even 40 years ago. They bought the houses for cash even though the new Persian government didn’t allow them to bring their assets out of the country. And the kids all went to expensive private schools.

    Used to live in Sea Cliff San Francisco. Now I live in the Persian colony of Los Angeles. Persian jews always formed a very wealthy upper class.

    The Persian government so wisely, so wisely so very wisely never allowed them to become lawyers and judges. So no Jewish lawfare such as Brown vs Topeka which destroyed the public school system and all the great American cities. No Jewish lawfare such as Griggs and Kaiser which made it illegal to hire a White American man.

    Although I’ll never let a Persian crook work in my car, I like the Persian Jews Zoroastrians Nestorian Christian and Catholics that moved to California. For one thing, they’re fair skinned Whites. For another, 40 years of Beverly Hills High, Harvard Westlake, St Ignatius Norte Dame and other private schools have Americanized the younger generations.

    Best of all, Persian jews hate affirmative action as much as I do. Unlike American Jews whose lawfare imposes affirmative action on the White goyim while leaving the Jews untouched. And they seem hardly aware of Israel. Unlike American Jews who can’t afford the yearly Synagogue membership and substitute Israel Uber Alles for religion
    goy

    Unlike European and American Jews who hate the countries they live in and the people in those countries with a deep and abiding hatred, Persian Jews love Persia it’s culture and Persians.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  167. Jack D says:
    @nebulafox

    any elaboration as to why they did survive?

    Probably, because as I said before, the conditions were not always uniformly bad, just like life in the Pale was not day and night pogroms for 400 years. There were times and places where things were more relaxed. Maybe when things got hot, you’d flee from Shiraz to Isfahan and then when conditions deteriorated in Isfahan you’d move to Tehran. Apparently the local clerics had a big influence.

    Some of the surviving accounts may have been exaggerated in that in the 19th century the human rights of the Jews of Persia became object of interest to European colonial powers, who used their abuse as a lever to interfere in Persian affairs. But even discounting for exaggeration, life was not easy for the Persian Jews under pre-Shah Shia theocracy and you can see that in the post-Shah period they reverted back to their historic pattern.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Jews#Safavid,_Afsharid_and_Qajar_dynasties_(1502%E2%80%931925)

    • Replies: @Alden
  168. Alden says:
    @nymom

    I hope the family sues the cat lady rescue organization that foisted the dogs on that stupid woman. It happens a lot. The poor, pitiful pathetic rescue dog kills its new “ parents”

    Did you read the dogs bit the husband and he was able to fight them off and put them outside? That’s because big untrained dogs tend to obey men more than women.

    Rescue dogs are just another grant grifting non profit scam jobs for otherwise unemployable cat ladies.

    There’s one in Utah for pit bulls. 50 million dollar a year budget grifted from numerous government, non profit foundations and silly cat lady donors.

    • Replies: @nymom
    , @Autochthon
  169. Alden says:
    @Jack D

    Only the incredibly naive believe Wikipedia, especially about Jews.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Johann Ricke
  170. @Colin Wright

    Hey, don’t talk shit about the Rambler.

    I married a cheesehead, so I’d never disrespect a company from her home state. Harley, Pabst, and Miller aside.

  171. Neuday says:
    @Blogger

    Just for fun I looked at this idiot’s comment history. Not much, but not without hilarity:

    “Black girls are under a huge deal of social pressure to like black guys. In the US, the baggage of history is a huge obstacle to black girls dating white guys.”

    Yeah, there’s a huge obstacle, but it ain’t the historical baggage.

    • LOL: William Badwhite
  172. Paul says:

    Mormans flee the United States in order to practice their polygamy in more religiously tolerant Mexico. American bigotry regarding religion must cease!

  173. Jack D says:
    @nymom

    Haitian are (sorta) Christian with voodoo elements. Their history is more of kleptocracy than socialism. The DR had its own history of dictatorship but perhaps less corrupt and in recent years it is somewhat democratic and capitalist. Also perhaps slightly better human capital (more mulatto than black). Haiti’s birth as the product of a slave rebellion permanently put them behind the 8-Ball. They killed anyone with technical skills and then what? Zimbabwe and Cambodia are in the same situation. It can take centuries to recover, maybe never.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  174. nebulafox says:
    @Anon

    There’s a Haitian Creole saying that sums up what happened there: “The earth is tired.”

    Part of the reason I’m so gung-ho on nuclear energy stems from the fact that I’m actually a strong believer that ecological and environmental coonditions can really help-or hurt-humanity. The dependence that humanity has on these isn’t as explicit as it was back when we had predominantly agricultural societies, but our ability to impact conditions wasn’t as strong back then either. If you are really going to have 7 billion people on the face of the planet, you’re going to have to be careful to ensure that the planet can support them all.

    Of course, for a lot of our bien-pensant friends, the real agenda is lowering living standards for native working and middle-class populations to developing world levels out of a mix of ideological fervor and crass desires for a more stratified society. Nuclear power divorces economic progress from environmental impact, which is inconvenient for The Narrative. It’s really quite sad to observe how cranky hippies can inconvenience everybody else in the United States while developing countries expectantly look toward massive investments in nuclear power: I’m currently hoping to talk to these guys who are setting up these new generation of nuclear plants in Indonesia (not China, which has already doing its own mass nuclear plant projects-Indonesia), and it strikes me as more than a little bit of an indictment on the USA that we’re so irrational about the subject that we’re letting fanatics get in the way of not having something similar. Then there’s Germany. Duisburg is gonna be covered in coal dust again soon…

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @notsaying
  175. Jack D says:
    @Alden

    http://dhimmitude.org/archive/littman_jews_under_muslims_case_of_persia.pdf

    You’re right – wikipedia is lying and Iranians treat all non-Muslim minorities royally. Iranian Jews were treated like kings. It’s just them lying Jew-Zionist-Wikipedians making stuff up.

    Feel free to offer alternative sources.

    • Replies: @Alden
  176. notsaying says:
    @Mike1

    This story made me question how long your family can be out of the US and still somehow get US citizenship.

    Does anybody know the answer?

    I remember Canada had a discussion not too long about the issue of the limits to passing down citizenship to those born overseas. They really tightened up their citizenship rules:

    The term “Canadians of convenience” was popularized by Canadian politician Garth Turner in 2006 in conjunction with the evacuation of Canadian citizens from Lebanon during the 2006 Israel–Lebanon conflict. …

    The new law [passed in 2009] would only confer Canadian citizenship to those who were born to a Canadian parent who, him/herself, was either born in Canada or became a Canadian citizen by immigrating to Canada as a permanent resident and subsequently being granted citizenship (also called naturalization). Under the old rules, it was possible for Canadian citizens to pass on their citizenship to endless generations born outside Canada. To restrict the scope of those eligible for Canadian citizenship for the future, the new law limits—with a few exceptions— citizenship by descent to one generation born outside Canada.

    I hope that new Americans can’t be born outside the US with no time limitation like under the old rules in Canada. But what are the limits?

  177. Jack D says:
    @nebulafox

    Sure having cheap and non-polluting energy is good. But even the Japanese (and the Americans – Three Mile Island) proved unable to handle nuclear energy safely. The odds of a radioactive breach are small but the consequences are huge – they are talking about $200 billion in damages for Fukushima.

    Do you really have faith that the Indonesians (let alone the Haitians) can safely handle this stuff. Not to mention the radioactive waste that has to be guarded for centuries?

  178. notsaying says:
    @nebulafox

    About nuclear power:

    You trust third world countries to safely operate a nuclear power plant? Why?

    There’s no way to permanently dispose of the spent fuel,. What about that, too?

  179. nymom says:
    @Alden

    Well that’s a little bit of an exaggeration…

    Many rescue groups do very good work. You just have to check them out before donation. I use Charity Navigator to check them out.

    I donate here to some columnists and to a South African farm aid group. But other than that I just give to animal charity groups that are registered with Charity Navigator and get a decent rating from them.

    Frankly I find most animals better than most people so generally just give to groups that rescue or help them….

  180. Anonymous[404] • Disclaimer says:

    The DR is not a particularly great place but it is drastically better than Haiti.

  181. nebulafox says:
    @Jack D

    Though the end game was nowhere near as bad as the others, Ukraine can be put in the category of suffering a massive dysgenic effect that it has never truly recovered from through the first half of the 20th Century. Germans, Poles, Jews, all gone by 1945, along with whatever native Ukrainian intelligentsia there was. The Soviets were left with a devastated breadbasket that had to be rebuilt from scratch.

    I’ll let someone else talk about Africa, but as for Cambodia, it is not quite as bad as Haiti… but only because the government is encouraging massive levels of mainland Chinese investment. Apart from the economic imperatives, it is also good for security: now that Thailand is getting cozy with the Chinese too, it finally provides a good deter rant against a rapidly rising Vietnam after decades of essentially being their plaything after the fall of the Khmer Rouge. That being said, corruption is so bad and accountability is so low-you can be assassinated in Cambodia if you piss off a powerful businessman-that I don’t see it going anywhere. You go to a place like Sihanoukville and check out the new casinos that bring in hordes of PRC tourists, the only Khmers allowed in are the service workers.

    I’ve made the Hun Sen/Suharto comparison before, but I’ll reiterate: Suharto’s hands were much, much bloodier, but he also made a life-changing positive impact in the lives of tens of millions of people. Hun Sen is only interested in staying rich and on top, nothing more, nothing less. Beyond that difference, they are the same kind of guy, from the military background to the patronage government with rival clans bounded together by marriage.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @anon
  182. nebulafox says:
    @Jack D

    >But even the Japanese (and the Americans – Three Mile Island) proved unable to handle nuclear energy safely.

    Fukushima was the result of ill-regulation-a complete absence of clear authority-and outdated plant ware. It was an entirely preventable accident that TEPCO received plenty of warnings about, yet they chose to extend the failing plant for ten years week before the typhoon hit: even as they were receiving warnings about it!

    I’ve got no complaint with heavily regulating nuclear energy, but our descendants are going to curse us in the grave if we listen to the arguments of those who really want to just rehaul industrialized societies to align more with their fantasies.

    >Do you really have faith that the Indonesians (let alone the Haitians) can safely handle this stuff.

    In Asia? Probably. China, Vietnam, Thailand, even Indonesia, they aren’t backwaters anymore and they have the people to run these plants.

    Haiti? No way. But Haiti is worrying about far more basic, ground-level, “let’s not have cholera epidemics anymore” stuff.

  183. notsaying says:
    @nymom

    I looked this up and I found a simple one page explanation from a charity group in Haiti for the differences between Haiti (GDP per person of $730) and the Dominican Republic (which I found has a GDP per person of about $8,000 vs. Mexico of $10,000).

    Finally, the country of Haiti has more people and less food in fact Haiti is one of the most food impoverished nations in the world and cannot produce enough food to sustain its people. As the weather patterns and natural disasters continue to wreak havoc on the Haitian landscape, the larger numbers and decreased crop potential make it almost impossible for Haiti to get ahead.

    https://restavekfreedom.org/2018/06/25/why-are-haiti-and-the-dr-so-different/

    If you’re a nation of destitute people who can’t feed yourselves and you keep on having more people you are in a real pickle, which they are in Haiti. Their population went from around 4 million in 1960 and is expected to be 11.3 million in 2020. These statistics remind me of some of the population estimates about black Africa that show huge population increases ahead there. Is Haiti a warning to the world that nobody is listening to?

    https://www.populationof.net/haiti/

    • Replies: @Jack D
  184. @Jack D

    But even the Japanese (and the Americans – Three Mile Island) proved unable to handle nuclear energy safely.

    I think there’s this myth going around that Japanese government bureaucrats are the source of the Japanese miracle, that they have preternatural instincts that somehow made Japan this world class economy despite a complete lack of mineral resources. I think the reality is that that Japan, like China, has really shitty government but, on average, a really smart population. Cut out even small amounts of the practically all-pervasive rent-seeking in these high IQ societies, and watch their economies bloom.

    Of course, the problem with Haiti and Indonesia is that rent-seeking is practically a genetic thing. Asking for an end to it is like asking for your uncle to become your aunt. So nuclear power for these countries is likely to be a catastrophic accident waiting to happen, but because of a practically genetic level of corruption rather than incompetence. In those countries, the guy appointed to head up operations won’t be the smartest candidate for the job, but the most well-connected, i.e. the guy who can offer the biggest bribe.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  185. ATBOTL says:

    What’s the Matter with Mexico is an interesting topic…

    My third grade social studies text book said that the racial composition of the Mexican population was changing to be less white and had already become much less white than it was in the early 1900’s. I read that in the 80’s, not sure when the book was written.

  186. @Alden

    Only the incredibly naive believe Wikipedia, especially about Jews.

    I’m not sure where you’re getting this incredulity about pogroms from. Just about every nationality has conducted periodic massacres of “troublesome” minorities, whether ethnic or religious. Some of it is genuine prejudice, but some of it is the kind of avarice for somebody else’s property that fires blasphemy allegations against non-Muslims in Pakistan and other Muslim countries where “blasphemers” are subject to having their property seized. Communist revolts succeeded in a number of countries for precisely this reason. Muslims, Iranian or otherwise, are not the angels you think they are.

  187. My local, TV news channel kept referring to the victims as being members “of an extended family”.

    Fuzzy.

    Were the mom(s) sister-wives?
    Were the kids half-siblings?

    That sort of thing.

    RIP.

  188. Tlotsi says:
    @Bostonvegas

    Sure you don’t mean Scatman Crothers?

  189. Hank Yobo says:
    @S

    The English/British-Spanish rivalry can be traced back at least to the reigns of Henry VIII and Charles V. Something to do with a divorce. The events of 1588 also loom large in the equation. The English detested the Spanish almost as much as they did the French. Sometimes vice versa.

  190. Jack D says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Japanese bureaucrats tend to be slow moving and ass covering and unwilling to make hard decisions without direction from above, but they don’t tend to be corrupt.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  191. Jack D says:
    @nebulafox

    I don’t know much about Cambodia but I’d agree about Ukraine, esp. the western half. Prewar, the Jews ran the non-farming economy and the Poles ran the government and the Ukrainians ran the cows and churches (with a tiny intellectual class). Then the Germans came and what little leadership class they had collaborated (enthusiastically) so when the Russians came back they shot them or sent them to Siberia. So this left them with basically nobody who was really equipped to run a Western society. Somehow they have managed to hang on to the bare minimum needed to keep the lights on but not much more.

    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    , @nebulafox
  192. I dislike the NYT, but they definitely didn’t say the victims “had it coming”. The background of the Mormons in Mexico is interesting and relevant. And, it should go without saying that I’m entirely sympathetic to the American victims and not at all to the gunmen or those affiliated with the gunmen.

    • Agree: Jack D
  193. @Alden

    Congratulations: you’ve passed the foolproof test for ass-holery by your declared hatred for innocent, domestic animals. May you some day die lost in an avalanche because some kindred asshole killed the only dog that may have found you.

  194. @Mike1

    I didn’t track my family back to England, but it’s my understanding that the Pilgrims/Puritans came from the eastern part of England. Possibly they moved to the Liverpool area on their way out. Templeton, I believe is a northern English/Scottish name but that is not my Mormon side.

  195. Jack D says:
    @notsaying

    Right, weather problems and natural disasters. These miraculously let up as soon as you get to the magic dirt in the DR. Even though the whole island is only 100 mi from north to south, Haiti is stricken with hurricanes, floods, landslides, etc. while in the DR it is always sunny and warm with a light breeze. This explains why their GDP is 11x greater even though they are on the same island. It has nothing to do with Haiti’s ethnic composition or history of having killed all the white people after a slave revolt.

  196. @Jack D

    You don’t need any more than bare minimum to parley with the Bidens.

  197. Jack D says:
    @Alden

    I’ll never let a Persian crook work in my car

    Funny, my previous mechanic was Persian (and there are not many Persians around here) but not Jewish AFAIK but I lost him when his shop went broke. As did the one before that. As far as I can tell, there are 3 kinds of mechanics:

    1. Crooked mechanics (most). This includes all stealership service departments.
    2. Honest mechanics who will eventually go broke because they are honest and there is not enough $ in honest mechanic work.
    3. Mechanics who inherited their dad’s shop so they don’t have to pay a lot of rent and won’t go broke despite being reasonably honest.

    I seem to have run thru the local supply of #2 and avoid #1 like the plague so my current mechanic is category #3 and he has brought HIS son into the business so I think I am fixed for life. The shop doesn’t appear to be in a location that will get bought out for condos either.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  198. nebulafox says:
    @Jack D

    Being corrupt is way less of a problem than ass-covering when dealing with nuclear plants, for the most part. Of course, if the corruption is about deliberately paying officials to not do safety inspections, that’s totally different, but corrupt officials aren’t that suicidal, literally in some cases, politically in all of them.

    Ass-covering is a lot more problematic because it happens in dysfunctional bureaucratic cultures. With a plant that hasn’t been upgraded in a long time…

    I’d also agree with Johann Ricke’s statement. I spent multiple years in Japan as a kid, and I can vouch for the fact that it is the lay people who are bright, not the face-saving bureaucrats.

  199. @Colin Wright

    The Louisville Courier Journal profiled the black Republican victor for Atty General: “His campaign’s push against illegal immigration tied into Cameron’s efforts to nationalize the race, using conservative social issues like abortion and portraying himself in ads as a defender of President Donald Trump’s agenda.”

    And the overall election: “Whether McConnell actually lost any sleep is questionable. After all, Republicans won five of Kentucky’s six races for statewide office, with Bevin’s race the only one in doubt. (Bevin has asked for a recanvass.)”

    Trump no doubt made the Gov vote closer than it would have been. Bevin sounds like dbag.

  200. @nymom

    Frankly I find most animals better than most people so generally just give to groups that rescue or help them….

    Yeah, that whole ‘nature red in tooth and claw’ was just specieist propaganda. Animals are naturally egalitarian. In nature, everyone and everything lives the Golden Rule.

  201. nebulafox says:
    @Jack D

    Suffice it to say, Cambodia is a deeply sad little country. I’ve never been to Ukraine, though. Does anything from the old days survive there, architecture, etc?

    I always find it kind of amazing that anything was functional there after 1914-1945. The Holocaust and Generalplan Ost were the final, crowning achievements on a trail of destruction: World War I, Russian Civil War with all the adjacent conflicts, the famine of 1921-1922, the Holodomor, the purges and deportations… and the prewar Tsarist state was far from a happy, peaceful place. Toward the end, nobody could tell which bombings were the Bolsheviks and which were the Ohkrana false flags-and there were also famines before that in the last years of Alexander III.

    I spent a lot of time today reading about all the simultaneous revolts that de facto (foreshadowing the warlord era, it’d be the militia leaders who’d dominate things in practice) caused the end of the Qing dynasty in the 1850s-1870s China: Taiping, Nian, Durgan, Miao. Reminds me of that. The Taiping alone cost 20 million plus lives, the Durgan revolt another 10 million plus. There comes a point where the numbers don’t adequately sum up the horror and all the individual stories that were snuffed out.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @Jack D
  202. nebulafox says:
    @nebulafox

    Comment died out: selective dyslexia. Dungan…

  203. @Autochthon

    May you some day die lost in an avalanche because some kindred asshole killed the only dog that may have found you.

    That’s pretty harsh. I love my dog too, but no dog’s life is worth a person’s needless death by suffocation in an avalanche. Even if Anon is a Democrat and as vile and malicious as Adam Schiff, condemnation to a panicked, violent struggle for one last breath is incommensurate with a cat-lady comment.

  204. @Anon

    the DR still has forests because of Trujillo. Not only did his men keep the animal out be any means necessary, but he turned down logging interests that wanted to cut them all down. As he noted “I own it all, why should I log it?” A better argument for monarchy has yet to be written.

  205. anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox

    Though the end game was nowhere near as bad as the others, Ukraine can be put in the category of suffering a massive dysgenic effect that it has never truly recovered from through the first half of the 20th Century. Germans, Poles, Jews, all gone by 1945, along with whatever native Ukrainian intelligentsia there was. The Soviets were left with a devastated breadbasket that had to be rebuilt from scratch.

    Ukraine had already been bled by the Russian civil war, the Chekists in the 20’s and the 1929 – 1932 Stalinist artificial famine. A famine covered up not just by the Soviets but also by the New York Times via Pulitzer-prize winner Walter Duranty. Robert Conquest heavily documented this famine in the mid 1980’s in Harvest of Sorrow which is still in print.

    Between 1929 and 1932 the Soviet Communist Party struck a double blow at the peasantry of the USSR: dekulakisation, the dispossession and deportation of millions of peasant families; and collectivisation, the effective abolition of private property in land and the concentration of the remaining peasantry in ‘collective’ farms under Party control. There followed a ‘terror-famine’, inflicted on the collectivised peasants of the Ukraine and certain other regions by the state, which set impossibly high quotas, removed every other source of food, and prevented outside help – even from other areas of the USSR – from reaching the starving millions. Epic in scope and rich in detail, The Harvest of Sorrow tells the moving story of a disaster that was, in human terms, one of the worst in living memory.

    The post WWII breadbasket rebuilding was further hampered by the lingering legacy of T. D. Lysenko. Soviet genetics was gutted during the worst of 1930’s Lysenkoism. Agronomy was also damaged. The glories of central planning.

  206. @Anon

    It’s called mordida. Money flows up. The Cartels pay the Prez. Mexico is basically a Mafia state

  207. @Jack D

    2. Honest mechanics who will eventually go broke because they are honest and there is not enough $ in honest mechanic work.

    How do you figure? Can’t they make a buck by charging standard labor rates for work that actually has to be done? That is, they could charge the book rate of 1 hour for 20 minutes of work. That would be fine, given that he does have to pay rent, hire a receptionist, make loan payments on capital equipment, pay for air conditioning, cover slow periods in which he has no work, etc.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  208. Joe Smith says:
    @Neil Templeton

    After being in various stakes throughout the West, I’ve came to the thought that LDS is basically a networking organization that primarily benefits the semi-skilled to move up to a solid middle class, albeit working class. The Bishops tend toward business owners and the leadership is one of benevolent despotism. One can cite all manner or craziness in Short Creek or elsewhere, but for the common man it’s about getting a decent job, raising a family and being active in one’s community. Similar to the success story of any cohesive group. By splitting up the family unit, the Government, Media and Capital holders are better able to exploit weakness. As the man once said, We Stand together or Hang Separately. The thing about the Mormons is that their core values are based on pioneer principles. Other (((groups))) are about living off theses same pioneers and their success depends on parasitism.

    • Replies: @Mike1
  209. Jack D says:
    @nebulafox

    Does anything from the old days survive there, architecture, etc?

    Does it ever. The world wars missed Lemberg/Lvov/Lviv and the Soviets built very little in the downtown core so downtown Lviv looks like a 1914 time capsule complete with cobblestone streets and Soviet trolleys.

  210. Joe Smith says:
    @anonymous

    Eastern Orthodox. One of my Team buddies switched over, and has no complaints. Odinism was and probably still is popular in the Ranger Bat

  211. Geronimo says:
    @LondonBob

    The libtards have been celebrating the Pre-Columbians since the 60s. First time I heard the Neil Young song “Cortez the Killer”, I could not believe anyone could write something so stupid. Our elementary school library had a series on Indians by Sonia Bleeker. Read them all, since they were the most bloodthirsty stuff on the shelves. The reality of the Red Man was nothing like the libtards were putting out. John Wayne was right (he had first person sources). Kumbaya, we can all get along… Not even. The Cartels are just acting the way those ‘people’ always have. The more Indian, the more cruel and sadistic. Plenty of primary sources available to note that even the most easy-going and agricultural of NAs condoned torture and ritual murder. All that spiritual bullshit is just that; stoned hippies looking for a world they can control.

  212. @Lot

    Well Juno is currently orbiting Jupiter right now, although not nuclear fueled like the other probes it is a major program. It basically is a do over of the Galileo spacecraft which had a lot of technical problems. Beyond that I don’t know of anything else is in the pipeline.

  213. @Jack D

    ‘Sure having cheap and non-polluting energy is good. But even the Japanese (and the Americans – Three Mile Island) proved unable to handle nuclear energy safely.’

    How many people do you think died as a result of Three Mile Island?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  214. Alden says:
    @Jack D

    You don’t know Persian jews Nor their history. I do, from Persian Jews, not the standard sob stories of the American Israeli propaganda machine.

    Poor oppressed pitiful pathetic Persian Jews who buy 7 million dollar homes a week after they arrive.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  215. syonredux says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Polygyny is certainly a stable way of running things, but I’m not sure that it’s compatible with democracy…..

    Opponents of the Nineteenth Amendment would say, “Not every suffragist is a Mormon, but every Mormon is a suffragist.” By today’s standard, our polygamists were 50 years ahead of the rest of the country in democracy.

    More evidence showing that democracy and polygyny are incompatible……

  216. @Steve Sailer

    Coincidentally me and my friend were trying to come up with which college had produced the third best pro qb…potentials were
    Stanford plunkett
    Everett purdue
    Miami kosar
    Nd beurlein
    Neither of us could remember where ferragamo went….got another pal named randy harrison who was a white safety who was on the nd team that beat bama for national title in mid 70s…he said when he got to southbend they had a guy whos name escapes me who could throw the ball 85 yards in the air…he said if not for some neck injury to this guy no one would have ever heard of joe montana

  217. @Wilkey

    I for one think it’s great that the NYT has started to recognize that being American=being of white European descent. Of course LeBaron is an American, and I am sure I, as a WASP, have far more kinship with hin than I would with an “American citizen” of Mexican descent or even with an Italian American

  218. Jack D says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Charging 1 hr of labor for 20 minutes work is already crooked. A truly honest mechanic (the kind that go broke) charges you 20 minutes of labor for 20 minutes of work.

  219. Jack D says:
    @Alden

    Yeah, who needs history books when you have it right from the horses mouth.

  220. Jack D says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    What’s the difference between Warren Jeffs and a warlord? The math is the same – if the # of boys and girls born are roughly equal but 1 guy has 20 concubines then there are 19 guys who will have no mate.

    China was not really stable – the whole history of China is filled with peasant uprisings and famines and deposed emperors and so on. We take for granted that everyone is entitled to at least a minimal middle class existence but 90% of Chinese lived in indescribable poverty and hunger. The Chinese phrase for “How are you?” is “Have you had any food (rice) today?” ‘Cause if you’ve eaten, you’ve had a good day.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  221. @Anonymous

    No yourself.

    Your views are pure libertarian 2nd Amendment fantasy – not at all practical given racial cultural realities

    I have no idea what a Libertarian thinks because I am not one and don’t really care. My views are not fantasy, but instead a rational answer to the current insanity we are living in the United States and in Mexico. When only thugs and cops have guns then you have the current situations happening over and over without end. And you know what the definition of insanity is? Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

    Time for an acceptance of reality: people are more reluctant to rob and shoot other armed people, and if enough people want a forbidden substance there will be people there to supply.

    When the local populations go down to the worst 3rd world Shudra levels , Mogadeeshu Somalia levels, Gaza Strip , Malmö Sweden slum levels – or the 95% lowest class Black African American areas 2 miles to the West of where I live – it s pure insanity to let everyone have whatever guns and drugs they want .

    Your boogie man scare words make it even more clear that everyone should pack heat. If you really lived in a Mogadeeshu-type society why on Earth wouldn’t you want to carry a gun? And yes, let people have the drugs they want. Otherwise, they will rob, kill, cheat steal to get them. Or the drug runners will.

    And not doing that is what is right now not in the future destroying civilization.

    Total insanity – collapse of civilization insanity .

    Lol, We already know what is total insanity: more of the same Prohibition and gun grabber idiocy. America, Change it or Lose it.

  222. Jack D says:
    @Colin Wright

    Three Mile Island could have been Fukushima if things had gone slightly worse. No one died at Fukushima either (at least not from the reactor meltdown) but there’s a 20 mile wide zone where no one can live for 30 years. If Harrisburg, the state capitol of PA, had been uninhabitable for 30 years it would have been, shall we say, inconvenient.

  223. Mike1 says:
    @Joe Stalin

    Mormons do have a history of massacring innocent civilians passing though their territory (Mountain Meadows being the most famous example).
    The problem with the “take the gloves off” fantasy is that Mormon’s have selected for weak minded people for nearly two hundred years. It takes a certain kind of person to believe the truly bizarre fantasies in the Mormon scriptures. It takes a certain kind of person to put yourself under the full control of religious superiors in all aspects of your life. There is a reason the retention rate in Mormonism is 30%: the sane and the slightly independent minded leave.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  224. Mike1 says:
    @Joe Smith

    The first part of your description seems very accurate. The Mormon organization is incredibly parasitic though. There is an argument that the 13% total tithing plus all the time the church demands would be otherwise spent on drugs/alcohol as this is common within semi-skilled blue collar workers.

    I’m baffled though by your “pioneer principles” argument. The church pushes the pioneer story but apart from mandatory food storage there is not exactly a lot of pioneer spirit in modern Mormons.

    It’s funny you don’t like Jews and are clearly LDS. You believe you are Jewish but don’t like Jews?!

  225. JMcG says:
    @Anonymous

    There is effectively zero hatred of Protestants in the Republic of Ireland today. There is no doubt some residual hatred still in the North, but that blade definitely cuts both ways.
    Your comment, as it regards Ireland, is incorrect.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  226. @nymom

    I know a white woman who was part of a non-profit in haiti…she had to get evacuated because the locals had more and more insane DEMANDS for free stuff and started threatening violence if their demands were not met. i.e. they got angry and threatened to kill people providing gibsmedat because it was not enough for their liking.’

    Also, another difference between DR and haiti is that a ton of people in DR are mixed race whereas haiti is pretty much 100% blackity black black blacks.

  227. Anonymous[386] • Disclaimer says:
    @JMcG

    There never were many Protestants in the south of Ireland. Those there were, were mostly concentrated in Dublin, and mostly “self-deported” after 1921. (Most went ‘back’ to Britain, not to Ulster.)

  228. Jack D says:
    @Mike1

    It takes a certain kind of person to believe the truly bizarre fantasies in the _____ scriptures. It takes a certain kind of person to put yourself under the full control of religious superiors in all aspects of your life.

    You could fill in the blank with the name of just about any religion. If Mormons are weak minded, so is every other devout religious believer. The stories in the Bible are just older than those in the Book of Mormon so we don’t see the hand of their human authors as clearly as we can see Joseph Smith and his obvious fakery.

  229. @Jack D

    deposed emperors

    Even the non-deposed emperors were, on occasion, puppets just like the Japanese emperor during the Tokugawa shogunate. The penultimate Chinese emperor (i.e. the one before the Last Emperor), was under the thumb of his aunt, the de facto ruler, his entire life, and was killed on her orders just before she died.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangxu_Emperor#Death

  230. Dissident says:
    @Bragadocious

    and they deliver the food that AWFLs are too lazy and incompetent to make themselves.

    AWFLs?

    https://www.acronymfinder.com/AWFL.html

    AWFL All World Football League (fantasy football)
    AWFL Acronym With Four Letters

    • Replies: @Bragadocious
  231. @Dissident

    Affluent White Female Liberals

    • Replies: @Dissident
  232. Dissident says:
    @Bragadocious

    Thank you.

    I suppose that in addition to Affluent White Female Liberals, AWFL (pronounced awful, no doubt) could also be used for Affluent Woke Female Liberals.

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