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From the New York Post:

City offering to pay homeless a year’s worth of rent if they leave town
By Yoav Gonen September 29, 2017 | 9:04pm

The city wants the homeless to get out of town — and is offering to pay a full year’s rent to those willing to abandon the five boroughs.

Under a pilot program quietly launched last month, shelter residents who have been in the system for at least 90 days and have a source of income can get 12 months of rent paid up-front virtually anywhere they can find an apartment.

Their travel expenses to vamoose would also be paid under a program already in place known as Project Reconnect. …

In the past five years, the city has paid $1.2 million in travel expenses — the only expense that was previously covered — for 2,512 families who relocated outside the five boroughs. Last year, the top destinations were Florida, Puerto Rico and North Carolina, according to DHS.

Passing hot potatoes has become a big part of American politics.

 
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  1. It makes sense. Rent in Florida or Puerto Rico is much less than housing costs in NYC.
    “As of August 2017, average rent for an apartment in Tampa, FL is $1176 which is a 0.85% decrease from last year when the average rent was $1186 , and a 0.85% decrease from last month when the average rent was $1186.

    One bedroom apartments in Tampa rent for $1030 a month on average (a 1.46% increase from last year) and two bedroom apartment rents average $1238 (a 0.48% decrease from last year).”

    Plus the savings In welfare and Medicaid, where NY State has the highest cost in the nation, including paying for fertility treatments for people too poor for medical insurance.

    http://nypost.com/2013/08/19/when-welfare-pays-better-than-work/

    “Today, the Cato institute is releasing a new study looking at the state-by-state value of welfare for a mother with two children. In the Empire State, a family receiving Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, Medicaid, food stamps, WIC, public housing, utility assistance and free commodities (like milk and cheese) would have a package of benefits worth $38,004, the seventh-highest in the nation.”

    Some of that is paid by the Feds, but I’d guess half is paid by the state and city. If rent elsewhere is less than $1500 the city benefits.

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  2. biz says:

    What’s to stop them from living for a year on that money then taking a bus back to NYC and getting another bribe to leave, rinse repeat?

    Read More
    • Replies: @jackmcg
    Then NYC would still come out even or better factoring in costs for mental health, crime, santiation, property value, etc.

    Hell, what you describe is a great scenario for NY compared to all the ways this program could go wrong.
    , @TomSchmidt
    The city STILL saves money under that scenario. Plus, some percentage will stay out where human life isn't crushed by the ridiculous housing costs of Gotham. My guess is a large percentage.
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  3. Pat Boyle says:

    Back in the day it was simpler. Nevada’s public welfare program was a bus ticket to San Francisco.

    Read More
    • Replies: @whorefinder
    I know that some authorities in California do that to Hawaii: whenever there's a jailable charge against a homeless bum in certain jurisdictions, they offer him a choice between jail time or a one-way plane ticket to Hawaii, which is rich in public welfare (heavily Democrat state). The homeless guy's jump at the chance, and Hawaii suddenly has a larger population of folks "living on the beach." And Hawaii is too in-the-tank blue to send them back---too bleeding heart, too corrupt.

    Makes that old deal of "jail or the army" seem like a bum's deal. Should've held out for a bigger trip.

    , @whorefinder
    duplicate comment, please delete.
    , @Bard of Bumperstickers
    Muslim regions' welfare program ships 'em to the European Union - minus Hungary, with its "Make Hungary Great Again!" (MAHA) wall. };^D
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  4. whorefinder says: • Website

    As with most government programs, this will become a racket. I can picture some enterprising gangsters getting homeless people to take the program and rent an apartment in, say, Newark or Yonkers, then kicking them out and renting out the apartment at twice the rate to some illegal immigrant family.

    How would NYC ever check on this? Never, and they wouldn’t have jurisdiction, and unless the Newark/Yonkers authorities were paid off (another racket), the Newark/Yonkers authorities would raise a stink if NYC ever told them they were moving mentally-diseased grifters into their city.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jimi
    Getting back to NYC is a 20 minute ride on Path Train, $2.50 for 1 way ticket.
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  5. whorefinder says: • Website
    @Pat Boyle
    Back in the day it was simpler. Nevada's public welfare program was a bus ticket to San Francisco.

    I know that some authorities in California do that to Hawaii: whenever there’s a jailable charge against a homeless bum in certain jurisdictions, they offer him a choice between jail time or a one-way plane ticket to Hawaii, which is rich in public welfare (heavily Democrat state). The homeless guy’s jump at the chance, and Hawaii suddenly has a larger population of folks “living on the beach.” And Hawaii is too in-the-tank blue to send them back—too bleeding heart, too corrupt.

    Makes that old deal of “jail or the army” seem like a bum’s deal. Should’ve held out for a bigger trip.

    Read More
    • Replies: @fish
    I'm getting close to retirement……maybe time to work on my "Strong Arm Robbery/Assault" skills!
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  6. whorefinder says: • Website
    @Pat Boyle
    Back in the day it was simpler. Nevada's public welfare program was a bus ticket to San Francisco.

    duplicate comment, please delete.

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  7. Read More
    • Replies: @fish

    ONline dating for Conspiracy Theorists
     
    Sure…..that's what the PTB wants you to believe!
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  8. And they have the noive to accuse us of gaming the electoral college … typical lefty projection. (See also, “Dubuque, Chicagoans in”)

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  9. jackmcg says:
    @biz
    What's to stop them from living for a year on that money then taking a bus back to NYC and getting another bribe to leave, rinse repeat?

    Then NYC would still come out even or better factoring in costs for mental health, crime, santiation, property value, etc.

    Hell, what you describe is a great scenario for NY compared to all the ways this program could go wrong.

    Read More
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  10. eD says:

    This has been a pretty common, in fact the standard, approach to a town handling its vagrants (“buy a bus ticket to the next town”), but there are obvious problems if everyone tries to do it all at once.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye

    This has been a pretty common, in fact the standard, approach to a town handling its vagrants (“buy a bus ticket to the next town”), but there are obvious problems if everyone tries to do it all at once.
     
    Greyhound offers connections to Canada aka Trudeautopia, the land of socialist milk and honey.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhound_Canada
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  11. eD says:

    By the way, I’ve seen studies that the most effective way to combat homelessness is just to put them up in apartments (doesn’t have to be too fancy), even when looked at on a cost effectiveness basis.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Guy de Champlagne
    Tieing the housing to some kind of implanted long term birth control (something that would have to be invented for men), it would pay back society even more.

    In lots of European countries they have public housing that's isolated from the rest of society. Copying that would make the program work even better.

    , @res
    Two big problems with that:
    - The (average) effect on their new neighbors.
    - The unfairness and moral hazard issues.

    Any "solution" to the homeless problem that fails to provide proper incentives (e.g. to support yourself as much as possible and not be a problem to others) is not a solution at all.
    , @Anonymous
    By the way, I’ve seen studies that the most effective way to combat homelessness is just to put them up in apartments (doesn’t have to be too fancy), even when looked at on a cost effectiveness basis.

    Why did Reagan close the mental hospitals? It's been a pretty big disaster, no?
    , @Father O'Hara
    Can't we just,you know,soylent green ' em?
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  12. eah says:

    OT

    Thilo Sarrazin — as usual he makes a lot of sense: The AfD could get a great many more votes in the future.

    Sarrazin: Wählerpotential der AfD ist viel größer

    Der frühere Berliner Finanzsenator Thilo Sarrazin glaubt an ein Wählerpotential für die AfD von 30 Prozent…Einen der Hauptgründe für das Wahlergebnis sieht Sarrazin in der Asylpolitik: “Bald schon wird Deutschland jährlich 50 Milliarden für Flüchtlinge und ihren Familiennachzug ausgeben. Der kleine Mann weiß: Diese Gelder müssen irgendwo herkommen.”…Zudem gebe es Sorgen vor einer steigenden Verbrechensrate durch mehrheitlich muslimische Einwanderer: „Im Berliner Jugendknast sind mittlerweile 80 Prozent der Essensausgaben halal, also moslemisch. Das sagt alles über die relative Kriminalitätsverteilung.“

    He thinks 30% is possible (in the recent election this would have trailed only the CDU) — immigration and asylum are the main reasons: soon Germany will be paying 50b euros/year for ‘refugees’ and their relatives (now being allowed to come), and that money must come from somewhere — in addition people are concerned about the higher criminality of many immigrants, especially muslims: in Berlin’s youth prisons 80% of the food served is now Halal, which tells you all you need to know about their disproportionate criminality.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    It might take a bit longer to get to 30%: They'll monkey with the progressive tax scale so that the top rate finds itself biting lower, and they'll clamp down even harder on the news to ensure word doesn't get out other than by first hand experience, or word of mouth (friend of a friend), which they already denounce as alarmist, racist, and apocryphal. As long as they continue to brand AfD right-wing (forget the extremist, for most Wessies RW is enough), which is code for neo-Nazi, most Germans will go along with what Mutti and gang are telling them until they are personally relieved of their wallets or raped.
    , @eah
    OT

    https://twitter.com/TOOEdit/status/915370673639268352
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  13. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    American whites no longer need to move to East Europe to experience the maladies of EE!

    The entire world is exporting their peculiar problems and peculiar ways of dealing with problems to the US.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    One of the biggest rackets is all those old Asians, mostly Chinese who arrive with their fraudulent ID claiming to be 65 years old and thus eligible for SSI $800 more or less depending on the state every month. And there is even more than $800 in medicare and medicaid, free bus passes, free senior van transportation, food banks, food stamps and of course fast track to senior housing.

    Many are not 65 but in their fifties and although too old and disabled to work, go to work in the family business. And of course 2 or 3 old people bringing in around $800 per month makes up a big part of the mortgage payment. In case you wonder how so many Chinese manage to live in Silicon Valley and the Bay Area that's how they do it. Crowded housing and using the SSI checks for the payments.

    During the early and mid 20th century, southerners called it "Greyhound Probation" They gave the black troublemakers a bus ticket to NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and other northern cities.
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  14. @eD
    By the way, I've seen studies that the most effective way to combat homelessness is just to put them up in apartments (doesn't have to be too fancy), even when looked at on a cost effectiveness basis.

    Tieing the housing to some kind of implanted long term birth control (something that would have to be invented for men), it would pay back society even more.

    In lots of European countries they have public housing that’s isolated from the rest of society. Copying that would make the program work even better.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    You can, in fact, build projects that don't breed more anomie and crime:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensible_space_theory

    Isolating them doesn't work as well.
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  15. “This has been a pretty common, in fact the standard, approach to a town handling its vagrants (“buy a bus ticket to the next town”), but there are obvious problems if everyone tries to do it all at once.”

    Is it like gremlins with water? If all the towns did it at once it seems like our homeless population would effectively transform into gypsys and start reading palms and playing flamenco music on the bus.

    It could work.

    Read More
    • LOL: TWS
    • Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist
    During my rucksack days, I saw this everywhere: hobos would do a circuit where they had food stamp pickups in multiple states. Hooptie vagabonds would hit up Methodist and Catholic services for sacks of groceries and gas vouchers 'til the next town.
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  16. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Of course, this doesn’t sit well with the ‘official’ ‘open borders’ ‘citizen of the world’ dogma.

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  17. Ed says:

    New York has been under one of the most ridiculous court orders for four decades. Court somehow found that the state’s constitution guarantees housing and that the city must pay for it. It’s 40 years old and it produces such insanity as people flying in from Hawaii and presenting themselves as homeless.

    Bloomberg tried a similar program that simply paid for people to leave, no future rent payments. The media blasted him and he retreated. I guess now that a liberal is doing it and throwing in a year’s free rent it’ll be more palatable to the loons.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    You mention Hawaii. A friend told me about a woman who lived in Maine who did that very thing.
    , @StillCARealist
    Why can't the cities let private renters run the equivalent of flophouses? Basically barracks and shared bathrooms. The guys could rent for months or for a night for dirt cheap. Strict rules for morals and cleanliness but you get a safe place to sleep and eat, albeit really low quality. As long as these options exist then the rules against sleeping in the parks and streets can be enforced.

    the other option would be prison camps where the only exit is good behavior. And these would have to be bare bones cheap out in the desert or wildernesses.

    I've known a few homeless guys and the only language they understand is sober discipline. If there's any free time then they're drinking/smoking pot/gambling/loafing/fighting/stealing.
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  18. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Reminds me of how the Powers That Be are ridding big cities (NY, Chicago etc.) of their steerage class via Section Eights to the ‘burbs. Of course, they bring the usual baggage with them (drugs, a propensity towards violence etc)–basically shifting the problem from one place to the other– but, hey, now that dumps can be refurbished into one bedroom $750K condos for sale to High Rollers who cares, right?

    Read More
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  19. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Ed
    New York has been under one of the most ridiculous court orders for four decades. Court somehow found that the state's constitution guarantees housing and that the city must pay for it. It's 40 years old and it produces such insanity as people flying in from Hawaii and presenting themselves as homeless.

    Bloomberg tried a similar program that simply paid for people to leave, no future rent payments. The media blasted him and he retreated. I guess now that a liberal is doing it and throwing in a year's free rent it'll be more palatable to the loons.

    You mention Hawaii. A friend told me about a woman who lived in Maine who did that very thing.

    Read More
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  20. Langley says:

    There is now a Blue State precedent for paying problem people to go away.

    We can solve the Race Problem with the same methods.

    We pay every African (all 43 million) living in America one million dollars to move to Africa.

    They would be welcomed as long lost brothers by other Africans.

    They would have to agree to renounce their USA citizenship and never to return.

    We could even give them free transportation.

    For $50 million we could eliminate the GAP and create Wakanda (or is it Wankerstan?).

    I want my MacArthur award now!

    Read More
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    43,000,000 × 1,000,000 = 50,000,000?

    Hmm.
    , @Alfa158
    43 million times 1 million dollars comes out to 43 trillion dollars. That would be the entire federal budget for about 12 years, or more than 2 years of the entire US gross domestic product.
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  21. res says:
    @eD
    By the way, I've seen studies that the most effective way to combat homelessness is just to put them up in apartments (doesn't have to be too fancy), even when looked at on a cost effectiveness basis.

    Two big problems with that:
    - The (average) effect on their new neighbors.
    - The unfairness and moral hazard issues.

    Any “solution” to the homeless problem that fails to provide proper incentives (e.g. to support yourself as much as possible and not be a problem to others) is not a solution at all.

    Read More
    • Agree: Barnard, Triumph104
    • Replies: @Langley
    This has been known since the 1990's .

    The government paid for an experiment that randomly selected one group Africans to be moved from the cities (where there we few opportunities for employment) to suburbs (where there were many more employment opportunities) while leaving a second group of randomly selected Africans where they were.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_to_Opportunity

    The researchers found that the group that was moved were involved in more crimes than the one that was left in the city.

    In her book, Experiencing The Lifespan, Janet Belsky blamed the European residents of the suburbs for the Africans behavior. She wrote that they did not work hard enough to welcome the Africans.

    When you conduct these types of social experiments you are required to get informed consent from those effected by them.

    I asked my students about Belsky's point:

    "Should Whites be blamed for the behavior of Blacks?"

    "Should the inhabitants of the suburbs be warned about the potential problems of the experiment that they were about to be involved in?"

    The students were unable to understand the questions.
    , @NOTA
    Some homeless people are crazy or addicted or otherwise unfixably f-cked up. Wherever you send them, they're going to be a burden, and they're hardly ever going to get better.

    Some homeless people are folks at the bottom who got ground up in the gears somehow, often people whose ability to support themselves and function were pretty marginal to begin with. (So one serious problem wrecked them.). The right kind of assistance programs might actually help them, but even when they get back into being able to pay rent somewhere, they will still not be paying a lot of taxes, and their kids won't be bringing up the test scores in the local schools.

    The local authorities have an incentive to send both groups away, but one group might actually improve if handled properly.
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  22. @Lars Porsena
    "This has been a pretty common, in fact the standard, approach to a town handling its vagrants (“buy a bus ticket to the next town”), but there are obvious problems if everyone tries to do it all at once."

    Is it like gremlins with water? If all the towns did it at once it seems like our homeless population would effectively transform into gypsys and start reading palms and playing flamenco music on the bus.

    It could work.

    During my rucksack days, I saw this everywhere: hobos would do a circuit where they had food stamp pickups in multiple states. Hooptie vagabonds would hit up Methodist and Catholic services for sacks of groceries and gas vouchers ’til the next town.

    Read More
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  23. TheOldOne says:

    As a former North Carolinian, I say “thanks Yankees, as always you know best” to NYC.

    Read More
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  24. Affirmatively Furthering Panhandling

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  25. fish says:
    @whorefinder
    I know that some authorities in California do that to Hawaii: whenever there's a jailable charge against a homeless bum in certain jurisdictions, they offer him a choice between jail time or a one-way plane ticket to Hawaii, which is rich in public welfare (heavily Democrat state). The homeless guy's jump at the chance, and Hawaii suddenly has a larger population of folks "living on the beach." And Hawaii is too in-the-tank blue to send them back---too bleeding heart, too corrupt.

    Makes that old deal of "jail or the army" seem like a bum's deal. Should've held out for a bigger trip.

    I’m getting close to retirement……maybe time to work on my “Strong Arm Robbery/Assault” skills!

    Read More
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  26. fish says:
    @gingerbread man
    ONline dating for Conspiracy Theorists
    https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/d3g78j/hot-for-truther-inside-the-website-where-conspiracy-theorists-find-love?utm_source=dmfb

    ONline dating for Conspiracy Theorists

    Sure…..that’s what the PTB wants you to believe!

    Read More
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  27. Langley says:
    @res
    Two big problems with that:
    - The (average) effect on their new neighbors.
    - The unfairness and moral hazard issues.

    Any "solution" to the homeless problem that fails to provide proper incentives (e.g. to support yourself as much as possible and not be a problem to others) is not a solution at all.

    This has been known since the 1990′s .

    The government paid for an experiment that randomly selected one group Africans to be moved from the cities (where there we few opportunities for employment) to suburbs (where there were many more employment opportunities) while leaving a second group of randomly selected Africans where they were.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_to_Opportunity

    The researchers found that the group that was moved were involved in more crimes than the one that was left in the city.

    In her book, Experiencing The Lifespan, Janet Belsky blamed the European residents of the suburbs for the Africans behavior. She wrote that they did not work hard enough to welcome the Africans.

    When you conduct these types of social experiments you are required to get informed consent from those effected by them.

    I asked my students about Belsky’s point:

    “Should Whites be blamed for the behavior of Blacks?”

    “Should the inhabitants of the suburbs be warned about the potential problems of the experiment that they were about to be involved in?”

    The students were unable to understand the questions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bomag

    A. “Should Whites be blamed for the behavior of Blacks?”
     

    B. “Should the inhabitants of the suburbs be warned about the potential problems of the experiment that they were about to be involved in?”
     
    The correct answers are, of course: A. yes ; B. no

    (sarc)

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  28. AndrewR says:
    @Langley
    There is now a Blue State precedent for paying problem people to go away.

    We can solve the Race Problem with the same methods.

    We pay every African (all 43 million) living in America one million dollars to move to Africa.

    They would be welcomed as long lost brothers by other Africans.

    They would have to agree to renounce their USA citizenship and never to return.

    We could even give them free transportation.

    For $50 million we could eliminate the GAP and create Wakanda (or is it Wankerstan?).

    I want my MacArthur award now!

    43,000,000 × 1,000,000 = 50,000,000?

    Hmm.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Langley is probably an O'Brian or O'Conner.
    , @Langley
    OOOPS!


    We could pay them in Zimbabwe money!
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  29. New York City is controlled by Jews and old money WASPS. New York City has the financial wherewithal to bribe certain cohorts to do things they wouldn’t ordinarily do. The City of New York should direct at least 10, 000 Black homeless people to Chappaqua, New York. It is very nice in Chappaqua, and the Black homeless people will add vibrancy to the town.

    Hillary Clinton decided to live in Chappaqua because it was mostly White. Hillary Clinton claims to love Black people with all her heart. Many people believe Hillary Clinton when she speaks, I don’t.

    The homeless Black people from New York City should be temporarily housed in luxury tents until permanent habitations can be arranged. Luxury tents can be found in the Hamptons and Martha’s Vineyard; they are used by wealthy people for parties and wedding receptions. I done seen them suckers in the New York Times.

    Chappaqua must immediately break ground on some concrete structures of a brutalist architectural bent. I would propose buying out all Hillary Clinton’s neighbors and fast tracking the permit process to have the ten story concrete monstrosities finished by next summer. Prefabricated concrete structures can be built very fast.

    Hillary Clinton would love to be surrounded by formerly homeless Black people in massive ten-story concrete monstrosities in Chappaqua, New York. It is time for Hillary Clinton to live directly with formerly homeless Black people.

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  30. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @AndrewR
    43,000,000 × 1,000,000 = 50,000,000?

    Hmm.

    Langley is probably an O’Brian or O’Conner.

    Read More
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  31. 43,000,000 × 1,000,000 = 50,000,000

    Must be government accounting. No one knows where the rest of it went.

    Read More
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  32. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @eD
    By the way, I've seen studies that the most effective way to combat homelessness is just to put them up in apartments (doesn't have to be too fancy), even when looked at on a cost effectiveness basis.

    By the way, I’ve seen studies that the most effective way to combat homelessness is just to put them up in apartments (doesn’t have to be too fancy), even when looked at on a cost effectiveness basis.

    Why did Reagan close the mental hospitals? It’s been a pretty big disaster, no?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Reagan did not close the mental hospitals. Mental hospitals were run by the states.
    , @2Mintzin1
    Closing mental hospitals was well underway in New York (a liberal state) by the 1970's...I lived in Manhattan in mid-to-late '70's...the mentally ill street people were everywhere.
    , @DRA
    I remember it being JFK, rather than Reagan.
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  33. Muse says:

    Poor/homeless/vagrants have always been a problem.

    This link is to a nice little summation of how the English tried to tackle the problem.

    http://www.cornellcollege.edu/english/Blaugdone/essays/vagrancy.htm

    Here is a snippet:

    In 1601, England passed the Act for the Relief of the Poor, which would be the commanding authority on this issue until 1834. This act established the church as the sole establishment responsible for the care of the poor. If a family was not able to get by, it was the responsibility of the area parish to ensure that the family was taken care of (Woodbridge 272). However, it also established the deserving from the undeserving poor. Common traits of those considered deserving included the hard-working, the disabled, the locals, the householders, and the settled. The undeserving poor were the idle, the ones that feigned disability, the foreign, the homeless, and the wanderers (Woodbridge 22-23). Those that were considered undeserving were the ones targeted for vagrancy.

    Ultimately the most workable solution allowed the church to deny assistance to the undeserving. Widows and orphans are OK but bastards, prostitutes and malingers are on their own.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104

    The undeserving poor were the idle, the ones that feigned disability, the foreign,
     
    Half of the homeless in Britain are foreign, a tenth are Polish and a fifth are Romanian.

    A Romanian man came to England with his wife and got a job at a car wash. When he lost his job, he signed up at the unemployment office which put him in the system. He went back to Romania and brought his five children back to England. Because he was in the system, the British government was required to provide his family housing. Four days after the family arrived from Romania they were in a newly remodeled home.

    https://youtu.be/YfPTm5ZOkxE
    , @Big Bill
    Until WWII, American counties/cities had workhouses/poorhouses/county farms/orphanages for the destitute and chronically indigent. Somehow the system evolved into a massive, individual-rights-based state and federal bureaucracy. The courts were probably a big reason.
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  34. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    “Of course, this doesn’t sit well with the ‘official’ ‘open borders’ ‘citizen of the world’ dogma.”

    Where is David Brooks when you need him?

    Read More
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  35. Hawaii has the highest rate of homelessness in the US, a fifth of whom are recent arrivals.

    A state senator who is also an emergency room physician says the problem is due to the high cost of living and drug abuse, such as meth. Since the homeless are overburdening Hawaii’s medical system, the state senator has proposed that homelessness be treated as a medical condition and doctors be allowed to prescribe housing as a treatment. Funding for the treatment would be reallocated from current the current Medicare budget.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Langley
    Yes.

    When I was working on the psych unit at Castle hospital in Kailua in the 1980's many of the patients said they were given money and a plane ticket to Hawaii to stop bothering people on the mainland.

    The number of people living by the side of the road, on beaches, and under bridges is astounding. Many are from the mainland but most are local. The west side beaches (e.g., Nanakuli, Waianae, & Makua) are filled with local people.

    The high tax huge social service handouts worked great in the 1980's. The ACLU defended peoples "right" to camp in parks in Waikiki. Folks were trained to be dependent and homelessness was seen as something that happened to people rather than the result of poor choices. They were seen as noble victims. (sounds like illegal immigrants on the mainland)

    This attitude has changed.
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  36. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Hot-potato-passing is not just with big cities but entire nations like Mexico… though maybe more like hot peppers.

    Maybe they should just build a giant new city called Refusopolis with a giant statue holding a welcome sign:
    “All you bums, crooks, criminals, ne’er do well, and lunatics yearning for some handouts, just live yuppie-cities and come here and you get free everything.”

    Btw, what happened to the notion of ‘sanctuary cities’? I guess it’s for illegals but not homeless natives.

    Gottfried has good piece:

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/who-are-the-people-anyway/

    Read More
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  37. @Anonymous
    By the way, I’ve seen studies that the most effective way to combat homelessness is just to put them up in apartments (doesn’t have to be too fancy), even when looked at on a cost effectiveness basis.

    Why did Reagan close the mental hospitals? It's been a pretty big disaster, no?

    Reagan did not close the mental hospitals. Mental hospitals were run by the states.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Reagan did not close the mental hospitals. Mental hospitals were run by the states.
     
    And it was that rare policy with bipartisan appeal-- liberation for the left, and saving tax money for the right. What's not to like?

    Besides loonies loose on the street...
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  38. Read More
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  39. Something similar in the UK with the cap on “housing benefit” i.e. rent paid by the state. The unemployed/lowest earners are being forced out of high-rent areas like London to low-rent areas like Middlesbrough or Barnsley.

    Still, it spreads the benefits of diversity to the poor natives of Middlesbrough and Barnsley, not to mention sparking a construction boom on the outskirts as natives who have the money (and might otherwise have stayed in the streets they grew up in) flee their newly-enriched neigbourhoods.

    OT, Bloomberg – “Rich Men With Extreme Politics Have The Happiest Marriages”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    The Economist magazine likes the plan of continuously expanding debt to pay for housing the continuously expanding population. The Bank of England likes it too. The White British who fled from areas flooded by foreigners were the ones who made the difference in the vote to leave the European Union.

    The Economist says chop down every tree within 100 hundred miles of London to build housing for the foreigners flooding into England. The Bank of England says it is great that foreigners are keeping wage inflation in check so that upper middle class scumbags in Britain can enjoy the bounty created by asset purchases, quantitative easing, bond buying and near zero interest rates.

    England is one of the most densely populated parts of Europe. England is jam packed with people. England is being overrun by multicultural mayhem. The evil ruling class of England is using mass immigration to keep wages low and housing costs high.
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  40. …the state senator has proposed that homelessness be treated as a medical condition and doctors be allowed to prescribe housing as a treatment.

    Take two bedrooms and call me in the morning.

    Read More
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  41. @Muse
    Poor/homeless/vagrants have always been a problem.

    This link is to a nice little summation of how the English tried to tackle the problem.

    http://www.cornellcollege.edu/english/Blaugdone/essays/vagrancy.htm

    Here is a snippet:

    In 1601, England passed the Act for the Relief of the Poor, which would be the commanding authority on this issue until 1834. This act established the church as the sole establishment responsible for the care of the poor. If a family was not able to get by, it was the responsibility of the area parish to ensure that the family was taken care of (Woodbridge 272). However, it also established the deserving from the undeserving poor. Common traits of those considered deserving included the hard-working, the disabled, the locals, the householders, and the settled. The undeserving poor were the idle, the ones that feigned disability, the foreign, the homeless, and the wanderers (Woodbridge 22-23). Those that were considered undeserving were the ones targeted for vagrancy.
     
    Ultimately the most workable solution allowed the church to deny assistance to the undeserving. Widows and orphans are OK but bastards, prostitutes and malingers are on their own.

    The undeserving poor were the idle, the ones that feigned disability, the foreign,

    Half of the homeless in Britain are foreign, a tenth are Polish and a fifth are Romanian.

    A Romanian man came to England with his wife and got a job at a car wash. When he lost his job, he signed up at the unemployment office which put him in the system. He went back to Romania and brought his five children back to England. Because he was in the system, the British government was required to provide his family housing. Four days after the family arrived from Romania they were in a newly remodeled home.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Romanian
    And they are White! Oh joy! 5 kids too. Lower class, obviously, but still. Usually, the sponges are the browner elements. This made my day, though I agree with the right of the Brits to cut off privileges like access to welfare.
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  42. @Ed
    New York has been under one of the most ridiculous court orders for four decades. Court somehow found that the state's constitution guarantees housing and that the city must pay for it. It's 40 years old and it produces such insanity as people flying in from Hawaii and presenting themselves as homeless.

    Bloomberg tried a similar program that simply paid for people to leave, no future rent payments. The media blasted him and he retreated. I guess now that a liberal is doing it and throwing in a year's free rent it'll be more palatable to the loons.

    Why can’t the cities let private renters run the equivalent of flophouses? Basically barracks and shared bathrooms. The guys could rent for months or for a night for dirt cheap. Strict rules for morals and cleanliness but you get a safe place to sleep and eat, albeit really low quality. As long as these options exist then the rules against sleeping in the parks and streets can be enforced.

    the other option would be prison camps where the only exit is good behavior. And these would have to be bare bones cheap out in the desert or wildernesses.

    I’ve known a few homeless guys and the only language they understand is sober discipline. If there’s any free time then they’re drinking/smoking pot/gambling/loafing/fighting/stealing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    There were once plenty of SRO (single room occupancy) places (flop houses) where you could get a room with a bath down the hall for cheap. Most of these were torn down starting in the 60s with the promise that they would be replaced by affordable housing.
    , @ScarletNumber

    I’ve known a few homeless guys and the only language they understand is sober discipline.
     
    If they could respond to discipline they wouldn't be homeless in the first place.
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  43. @YetAnotherAnon
    Something similar in the UK with the cap on "housing benefit" i.e. rent paid by the state. The unemployed/lowest earners are being forced out of high-rent areas like London to low-rent areas like Middlesbrough or Barnsley.

    Still, it spreads the benefits of diversity to the poor natives of Middlesbrough and Barnsley, not to mention sparking a construction boom on the outskirts as natives who have the money (and might otherwise have stayed in the streets they grew up in) flee their newly-enriched neigbourhoods.

    OT, Bloomberg - "Rich Men With Extreme Politics Have The Happiest Marriages"

    The Economist magazine likes the plan of continuously expanding debt to pay for housing the continuously expanding population. The Bank of England likes it too. The White British who fled from areas flooded by foreigners were the ones who made the difference in the vote to leave the European Union.

    The Economist says chop down every tree within 100 hundred miles of London to build housing for the foreigners flooding into England. The Bank of England says it is great that foreigners are keeping wage inflation in check so that upper middle class scumbags in Britain can enjoy the bounty created by asset purchases, quantitative easing, bond buying and near zero interest rates.

    England is one of the most densely populated parts of Europe. England is jam packed with people. England is being overrun by multicultural mayhem. The evil ruling class of England is using mass immigration to keep wages low and housing costs high.

    Read More
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  44. Romanian says: • Website
    @Triumph104

    The undeserving poor were the idle, the ones that feigned disability, the foreign,
     
    Half of the homeless in Britain are foreign, a tenth are Polish and a fifth are Romanian.

    A Romanian man came to England with his wife and got a job at a car wash. When he lost his job, he signed up at the unemployment office which put him in the system. He went back to Romania and brought his five children back to England. Because he was in the system, the British government was required to provide his family housing. Four days after the family arrived from Romania they were in a newly remodeled home.

    https://youtu.be/YfPTm5ZOkxE

    And they are White! Oh joy! 5 kids too. Lower class, obviously, but still. Usually, the sponges are the browner elements. This made my day, though I agree with the right of the Brits to cut off privileges like access to welfare.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    Yeah, but the middle-class Brits are buying up housing in places like Roania, driving up housing costs for the locals. Consider it a karmic cycle.
    , @Ed
    They look like gypsies. Even still there are many blacks better than this heck the woman handling their case is far better.

    Romania's GDP per capita isn't even $10K, there are African countries nipping at its heels.

    , @Peter Johnson
    In polite conversation, "Romanian" is a euphemism for "Roma gypsy" and no, they are not white in the sense of European ancestry. They originate from India and settled in Romania and other countries in Europe quite a few generations ago. But, no, the "Romanians" meaning Roma gypsies are not white in the sense of ethnic European ancestry.
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  45. Langley says:
    @AndrewR
    43,000,000 × 1,000,000 = 50,000,000?

    Hmm.

    OOOPS!

    We could pay them in Zimbabwe money!

    Read More
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  46. Alfa158 says:
    @Langley
    There is now a Blue State precedent for paying problem people to go away.

    We can solve the Race Problem with the same methods.

    We pay every African (all 43 million) living in America one million dollars to move to Africa.

    They would be welcomed as long lost brothers by other Africans.

    They would have to agree to renounce their USA citizenship and never to return.

    We could even give them free transportation.

    For $50 million we could eliminate the GAP and create Wakanda (or is it Wankerstan?).

    I want my MacArthur award now!

    43 million times 1 million dollars comes out to 43 trillion dollars. That would be the entire federal budget for about 12 years, or more than 2 years of the entire US gross domestic product.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Logan
    People can't or possibly won't do math.
    , @Autochthon
    Mathematics are racist!
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  47. Langley says:
    @Triumph104
    Hawaii has the highest rate of homelessness in the US, a fifth of whom are recent arrivals.

    A state senator who is also an emergency room physician says the problem is due to the high cost of living and drug abuse, such as meth. Since the homeless are overburdening Hawaii's medical system, the state senator has proposed that homelessness be treated as a medical condition and doctors be allowed to prescribe housing as a treatment. Funding for the treatment would be reallocated from current the current Medicare budget.

    https://youtu.be/VbdT-_co19U

    Yes.

    When I was working on the psych unit at Castle hospital in Kailua in the 1980′s many of the patients said they were given money and a plane ticket to Hawaii to stop bothering people on the mainland.

    The number of people living by the side of the road, on beaches, and under bridges is astounding. Many are from the mainland but most are local. The west side beaches (e.g., Nanakuli, Waianae, & Makua) are filled with local people.

    The high tax huge social service handouts worked great in the 1980′s. The ACLU defended peoples “right” to camp in parks in Waikiki. Folks were trained to be dependent and homelessness was seen as something that happened to people rather than the result of poor choices. They were seen as noble victims. (sounds like illegal immigrants on the mainland)

    This attitude has changed.

    Read More
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  48. Not at all uncommon. Notwithstanding all the urban legends, a lot of cities do in fact have programs to emigrate their bums. The only question is to how lavish is the benefit.

    In Portland they’ll purchase a bus ticket for any homeless person that can show a bona-fide employment or permanent housing arrangement (such as being put-up by a friend or relative).

    Ostensibly, the bona-fide employment/housing requirement is to ensure the program isn’t a bald effort to just move the bums out. Of course, it would be gauche to inquire as to the rigorousness of the bona-fide verification. As such, it is left as an exercise for the users.

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  49. @eah
    OT

    Thilo Sarrazin -- as usual he makes a lot of sense: The AfD could get a great many more votes in the future.

    Sarrazin: Wählerpotential der AfD ist viel größer

    Der frühere Berliner Finanzsenator Thilo Sarrazin glaubt an ein Wählerpotential für die AfD von 30 Prozent...Einen der Hauptgründe für das Wahlergebnis sieht Sarrazin in der Asylpolitik: "Bald schon wird Deutschland jährlich 50 Milliarden für Flüchtlinge und ihren Familiennachzug ausgeben. Der kleine Mann weiß: Diese Gelder müssen irgendwo herkommen."...Zudem gebe es Sorgen vor einer steigenden Verbrechensrate durch mehrheitlich muslimische Einwanderer: „Im Berliner Jugendknast sind mittlerweile 80 Prozent der Essensausgaben halal, also moslemisch. Das sagt alles über die relative Kriminalitätsverteilung.“

    He thinks 30% is possible (in the recent election this would have trailed only the CDU) -- immigration and asylum are the main reasons: soon Germany will be paying 50b euros/year for 'refugees' and their relatives (now being allowed to come), and that money must come from somewhere -- in addition people are concerned about the higher criminality of many immigrants, especially muslims: in Berlin's youth prisons 80% of the food served is now Halal, which tells you all you need to know about their disproportionate criminality.

    It might take a bit longer to get to 30%: They’ll monkey with the progressive tax scale so that the top rate finds itself biting lower, and they’ll clamp down even harder on the news to ensure word doesn’t get out other than by first hand experience, or word of mouth (friend of a friend), which they already denounce as alarmist, racist, and apocryphal. As long as they continue to brand AfD right-wing (forget the extremist, for most Wessies RW is enough), which is code for neo-Nazi, most Germans will go along with what Mutti and gang are telling them until they are personally relieved of their wallets or raped.

    Read More
    • Replies: @eah
    He didn't give a time frame -- more the issue framework that could/will drive more people to the AfD -- next Bundestagswahl is in 4 years -- the Landtagswahl in Niedersachsen is on Oct 15 -- yes, the entire German Establishment, including the taxpayer-funded state media, vehemently propagandizes against the AfD (this is not unique in Europe, see below), which also has internal problems.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLQpOqkXUAExQqZ.jpg
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  50. @Romanian
    And they are White! Oh joy! 5 kids too. Lower class, obviously, but still. Usually, the sponges are the browner elements. This made my day, though I agree with the right of the Brits to cut off privileges like access to welfare.

    Yeah, but the middle-class Brits are buying up housing in places like Roania, driving up housing costs for the locals. Consider it a karmic cycle.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Romanian
    Maybe in Spain or France, but not here. The ones driving up prices are the actual Romanians, aince high ownership levels create support for policies that are against affordable family formation, by creating transfers frkm the young to the elderly. For instance, the First House program for new homebuyers offers state guarantees to compensate for the lack of collateral of many young people. Active lobbying has resulted in the increase of the limit, but with no impact on the size of the dwelling one can buy, because prices have gone up in lockstep since the homebuyers can now borrow more.

    When I was still watching it a few years ago, Romania had the worst ratio in the EU for average cost per sq meter of housing compared to average monthly wage. It is also the effect of the differences between the major urban areas and the provincial towns.

    There are foreign speculators, definitely, but mostly corporate. The individual ones are the non-European community - rich Arabs, Turks etc. A few tens of thousands in Bucharest, which is the most diverse city in terms of non-historic minorities.

    PS I detest the karma rhetoric. It is a cover for vengefulness and panders to European fratricidal instincts or at least andti-solidary tendencies.

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  51. njguy73 says:

    Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
    With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
    Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
    A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
    Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
    MOTHER OF EXILES. From her beacon-hand
    Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
    The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
    “Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
    With silent lips.

    Tired, Line 1 starts at New York.
    Poor, Line 2 starts at Baltimore.
    Huddled masses yearning to breathe free, Line 3 starts at Miami.

    Please have your completed forms and 2 pieces of ID.

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  52. Now for a federal program that does the same thing with Puerto Ricans: pay them to go back to their country permanently. (and legislation to establish that the territory is no longer part of the USA)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye

    pay [Puerto Ricans] to go back to their country permanently. (and legislation to establish that [Puerto Rico] is no longer part of the USA)
     
    Puerto Rico (the "rich port") should be auctioned off to Latin American countries. They will all try to outbid each other to show up the hated Yanquis and expand their territory.
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  53. Sunbeam says:

    “43 million times 1 million dollars comes out to 43 trillion dollars. That would be the entire federal budget for about 12 years, or more than 2 years of the entire US gross domestic product.”

    If you could make that decision, would you do it? I would. You also aren’t counting the savings, and they are myriad you would realize.

    Just pulling a number out of my butt, break even might come as soon as 5 years or so after enactment.

    And yes, I’m aware I said that about 43 trillion dollars. That is literally how bad things are if you think about it.

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  54. Logan says:
    @Alfa158
    43 million times 1 million dollars comes out to 43 trillion dollars. That would be the entire federal budget for about 12 years, or more than 2 years of the entire US gross domestic product.

    People can’t or possibly won’t do math.

    Read More
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  55. The press questions this, but never mass immigration of people who have roughly the same job skill level and long term employ-ability as these rent deportee’s.

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  56. 2Mintzin1 says:
    @Anonymous
    By the way, I’ve seen studies that the most effective way to combat homelessness is just to put them up in apartments (doesn’t have to be too fancy), even when looked at on a cost effectiveness basis.

    Why did Reagan close the mental hospitals? It's been a pretty big disaster, no?

    Closing mental hospitals was well underway in New York (a liberal state) by the 1970′s…I lived in Manhattan in mid-to-late ’70′s…the mentally ill street people were everywhere.

    Read More
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  57. Ed says:
    @Romanian
    And they are White! Oh joy! 5 kids too. Lower class, obviously, but still. Usually, the sponges are the browner elements. This made my day, though I agree with the right of the Brits to cut off privileges like access to welfare.

    They look like gypsies. Even still there are many blacks better than this heck the woman handling their case is far better.

    Romania’s GDP per capita isn’t even $10K, there are African countries nipping at its heels.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Romanian
    There has been a lot of mixing among the lowest classes, unfortunately, with the product assimilating to gypsy norms rather than Euro ones. I once sat on a plane next to two gypsies, the more respectable kind (construction wotkers, two kids). One looked like an Indian, the other was White with green eyes. We struck up a conversation and ended up talking pussy, as Clinton and Trump are wont to do. Turns out the Whiter one is "married to a Romanian", in his words. Interesting uncertainty - are we assimilating his posterity, like those Americans finding out they are x% Black?

    As for Africa nipping at our heels, GDP does not paint the whole picture. You are talking about North Africa, which has the advantage of proximity and maritime routes to W markets. More Dacia cars (a budget Romanian brand pirchased by Renault) are made right in Tangier Port in Morrocco than at the factory in the Romanian interior. The rest of Africa looks good when oil proces are high, like Equatorial Guinea's former GDP/capita of 30k dollars.

    By that token, Mexico is ahead of Romania in GDP per capita and has a better looking export breakdown, because of the US and NAFTA.

    But GDP is not everything when it comes to livability. So, I will stick to Romania.

    But I wish everybody well, and Africa's success would not diminish us in any way... Except demographically.
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  58. @eD
    By the way, I've seen studies that the most effective way to combat homelessness is just to put them up in apartments (doesn't have to be too fancy), even when looked at on a cost effectiveness basis.

    Can’t we just,you know,soylent green ‘ em?

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  59. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Sending them to Puerto Rico doesn’t sound like a bad idea, though still easy enough to get back here. Perhaps better would be Madagascar or New Guinea. Maybe we can require trade arrangements with the countries we give monetary aid to- you know, like Tanzania, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Israel, etc.- in exchange for the cash, you take X amount of homeless off our hands. Of course, this only makes sense if we aren’t taking in the ‘huddled masses’ that the rest of the world doesn’t want. Otherwise we’re just circle jerking on an international level.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
    The French-built Statue of Liberty has become a fallen woman.

    Time to deport her, with her Lazarene creed intact, to welcome new settlers to Monrovia, Liberia.
    , @cynthia curran
    Yeah, but because of Hurricane Maria they are coming back to New York City. The states with the most Puerto Ricans now are New York, Florida, and Texas. Its funny it will come back to bite DeBlasco. I had this idea myself, a relocated voucher for the homeless in California. Anaheim and Santa Ana have them at the Santa Ana River bed, but the Republicans there never get on board.
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  60. “Vamoose” comes from the Spanish vamos. So this is cultural appropriation.

    But then, this paper was founded by Alexander Hamilton, who was recently celebrated by one Lin-Manuel Miranda, so maybe all is forgiven.

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  61. @Jim Don Bob
    Reagan did not close the mental hospitals. Mental hospitals were run by the states.

    Reagan did not close the mental hospitals. Mental hospitals were run by the states.

    And it was that rare policy with bipartisan appeal– liberation for the left, and saving tax money for the right. What’s not to like?

    Besides loonies loose on the street…

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  62. @Pat Boyle
    Back in the day it was simpler. Nevada's public welfare program was a bus ticket to San Francisco.

    Muslim regions’ welfare program ships ‘em to the European Union – minus Hungary, with its “Make Hungary Great Again!” (MAHA) wall. };^D

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  63. pyrrhus says:

    Michelle Obama was also involved in this racket, in the Second City….Probably the only useful thing she has done in her life…

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  64. Langley says:

    Hawaii has given up on trying to control homeless encampments in the middle of Honolulu.

    http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/10/03/breaking-news/kakaako-waterfront-park-to-close-indefinitely-as-homeless-population-grows/

    The comments section is always the most revealing area of the Honolulu Star-Advertiser.

    (We once had two papers – The Star Bulletin and the Honolulu Advertiser. The Star Bulletin went bankrupt and was going to be bought by Sam Sloan and Malia Zimmerman – two Jewish Libertarians. Senator Dan Inoye said that they should not be allowed to buy it. The probate judge disallowed their purchase and the Bulletin was bought by the Advertiser. Now the monopoly party in Hawaii has control of the only newspaper in Hawaii)

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  65. anon says: • Disclaimer

    The paying them to travel is ineffective usage of funds. Bums can easily scrounge up the cash for a bus ticket themselves if they want to leave. They travel around all the time.

    The only real, lasting way to reduce their population is to make your city unattractive to them– strictly enforced panhandling and loitering ordinances, meager shelters/amenities, busting up encampments, arresting them long enough they have to go through full withdrawal, etc.

    Those are the incentives they’ll listen to. Broken Window type stuff.

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  66. eah says:
    @eah
    OT

    Thilo Sarrazin -- as usual he makes a lot of sense: The AfD could get a great many more votes in the future.

    Sarrazin: Wählerpotential der AfD ist viel größer

    Der frühere Berliner Finanzsenator Thilo Sarrazin glaubt an ein Wählerpotential für die AfD von 30 Prozent...Einen der Hauptgründe für das Wahlergebnis sieht Sarrazin in der Asylpolitik: "Bald schon wird Deutschland jährlich 50 Milliarden für Flüchtlinge und ihren Familiennachzug ausgeben. Der kleine Mann weiß: Diese Gelder müssen irgendwo herkommen."...Zudem gebe es Sorgen vor einer steigenden Verbrechensrate durch mehrheitlich muslimische Einwanderer: „Im Berliner Jugendknast sind mittlerweile 80 Prozent der Essensausgaben halal, also moslemisch. Das sagt alles über die relative Kriminalitätsverteilung.“

    He thinks 30% is possible (in the recent election this would have trailed only the CDU) -- immigration and asylum are the main reasons: soon Germany will be paying 50b euros/year for 'refugees' and their relatives (now being allowed to come), and that money must come from somewhere -- in addition people are concerned about the higher criminality of many immigrants, especially muslims: in Berlin's youth prisons 80% of the food served is now Halal, which tells you all you need to know about their disproportionate criminality.

    OT

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  67. eah says:
    @The Alarmist
    It might take a bit longer to get to 30%: They'll monkey with the progressive tax scale so that the top rate finds itself biting lower, and they'll clamp down even harder on the news to ensure word doesn't get out other than by first hand experience, or word of mouth (friend of a friend), which they already denounce as alarmist, racist, and apocryphal. As long as they continue to brand AfD right-wing (forget the extremist, for most Wessies RW is enough), which is code for neo-Nazi, most Germans will go along with what Mutti and gang are telling them until they are personally relieved of their wallets or raped.

    He didn’t give a time frame — more the issue framework that could/will drive more people to the AfD — next Bundestagswahl is in 4 years — the Landtagswahl in Niedersachsen is on Oct 15 — yes, the entire German Establishment, including the taxpayer-funded state media, vehemently propagandizes against the AfD (this is not unique in Europe, see below), which also has internal problems.

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    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    Shame they don't go after their pedophiles with such zeal, but I guess that would put at least half of the elite behind bars if they did.
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  68. I recall reading articles in the NYT in the Koch era outraged that rural communities of the southeast were disposing of their bums with some cash and a mandatory bus ride to the Port Authority. In this era there was much upset about poor conditions in the SRO’s that New York City was using to house homeless. Eventually a judge ordered that NYC homeless had to be given proper apartments or else put up at the Plaza Hotel or equivalent.

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  69. Romanian says: • Website
    @Ed
    They look like gypsies. Even still there are many blacks better than this heck the woman handling their case is far better.

    Romania's GDP per capita isn't even $10K, there are African countries nipping at its heels.

    There has been a lot of mixing among the lowest classes, unfortunately, with the product assimilating to gypsy norms rather than Euro ones. I once sat on a plane next to two gypsies, the more respectable kind (construction wotkers, two kids). One looked like an Indian, the other was White with green eyes. We struck up a conversation and ended up talking pussy, as Clinton and Trump are wont to do. Turns out the Whiter one is “married to a Romanian”, in his words. Interesting uncertainty – are we assimilating his posterity, like those Americans finding out they are x% Black?

    As for Africa nipping at our heels, GDP does not paint the whole picture. You are talking about North Africa, which has the advantage of proximity and maritime routes to W markets. More Dacia cars (a budget Romanian brand pirchased by Renault) are made right in Tangier Port in Morrocco than at the factory in the Romanian interior. The rest of Africa looks good when oil proces are high, like Equatorial Guinea’s former GDP/capita of 30k dollars.

    By that token, Mexico is ahead of Romania in GDP per capita and has a better looking export breakdown, because of the US and NAFTA.

    But GDP is not everything when it comes to livability. So, I will stick to Romania.

    But I wish everybody well, and Africa’s success would not diminish us in any way… Except demographically.

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  70. Romanian says: • Website
    @The Alarmist
    Yeah, but the middle-class Brits are buying up housing in places like Roania, driving up housing costs for the locals. Consider it a karmic cycle.

    Maybe in Spain or France, but not here. The ones driving up prices are the actual Romanians, aince high ownership levels create support for policies that are against affordable family formation, by creating transfers frkm the young to the elderly. For instance, the First House program for new homebuyers offers state guarantees to compensate for the lack of collateral of many young people. Active lobbying has resulted in the increase of the limit, but with no impact on the size of the dwelling one can buy, because prices have gone up in lockstep since the homebuyers can now borrow more.

    When I was still watching it a few years ago, Romania had the worst ratio in the EU for average cost per sq meter of housing compared to average monthly wage. It is also the effect of the differences between the major urban areas and the provincial towns.

    There are foreign speculators, definitely, but mostly corporate. The individual ones are the non-European community – rich Arabs, Turks etc. A few tens of thousands in Bucharest, which is the most diverse city in terms of non-historic minorities.

    PS I detest the karma rhetoric. It is a cover for vengefulness and panders to European fratricidal instincts or at least andti-solidary tendencies.

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  71. @Romanian
    And they are White! Oh joy! 5 kids too. Lower class, obviously, but still. Usually, the sponges are the browner elements. This made my day, though I agree with the right of the Brits to cut off privileges like access to welfare.

    In polite conversation, “Romanian” is a euphemism for “Roma gypsy” and no, they are not white in the sense of European ancestry. They originate from India and settled in Romania and other countries in Europe quite a few generations ago. But, no, the “Romanians” meaning Roma gypsies are not white in the sense of ethnic European ancestry.

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    • Replies: @Romanian
    Why did you reply to me? I know that :). You must have wanted to reply to Triumph104.
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  72. Eagle Eye says:
    @eD
    This has been a pretty common, in fact the standard, approach to a town handling its vagrants ("buy a bus ticket to the next town"), but there are obvious problems if everyone tries to do it all at once.

    This has been a pretty common, in fact the standard, approach to a town handling its vagrants (“buy a bus ticket to the next town”), but there are obvious problems if everyone tries to do it all at once.

    Greyhound offers connections to Canada aka Trudeautopia, the land of socialist milk and honey.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhound_Canada

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  73. bomag says:
    @Langley
    This has been known since the 1990's .

    The government paid for an experiment that randomly selected one group Africans to be moved from the cities (where there we few opportunities for employment) to suburbs (where there were many more employment opportunities) while leaving a second group of randomly selected Africans where they were.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_to_Opportunity

    The researchers found that the group that was moved were involved in more crimes than the one that was left in the city.

    In her book, Experiencing The Lifespan, Janet Belsky blamed the European residents of the suburbs for the Africans behavior. She wrote that they did not work hard enough to welcome the Africans.

    When you conduct these types of social experiments you are required to get informed consent from those effected by them.

    I asked my students about Belsky's point:

    "Should Whites be blamed for the behavior of Blacks?"

    "Should the inhabitants of the suburbs be warned about the potential problems of the experiment that they were about to be involved in?"

    The students were unable to understand the questions.

    A. “Should Whites be blamed for the behavior of Blacks?”

    B. “Should the inhabitants of the suburbs be warned about the potential problems of the experiment that they were about to be involved in?”

    The correct answers are, of course: A. yes ; B. no

    (sarc)

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  74. eD says:

    Some commentators alluded to this,but its worth noting that homelessness is handled differently in developing countries. The poorest part of the population just moves to some area and constructs a shanty-town with whatever materials they have on hand. Sometimes these shanty-towns develop to the point where they don’t look much different from the relatively middle class urban and suburban neighborhoods. Sometimes they stay looking like, well, shanty-towns. They are very visible and get much sympathy from visitors from more developed countries. But you see fewer bums on the streets.

    And when you do see people on the street, they tend to have a blanket out with various knick nacks they are trying to sell. They get around by means of what we would call dollar vans and gypsy cabs, which are rarely licensed.

    The thing in the developed world all this stuff is illegal. Try to build a place to live or run a business, even just selling knick knacks off a blanket, without a permit and you will have problems with the police. So these people become bums or find some way to get sent to jail.

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    • Replies: @StillCARealist
    interesting theory, but it contradicts what I've seen and experienced with the homeless. In my area, and in my friendships, all homeless people are mentally ill and addicted to substances. Additionally, they are single, and have zero self-control or respect for authority. Left to themselves they will sponge off of whoever they can and drink/take drugs all day.

    The type of people you're describing in the third world are in our welfare system. The women all have a kid with no husband/provider and the men are working off the books or on disability.
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  75. @eah
    He didn't give a time frame -- more the issue framework that could/will drive more people to the AfD -- next Bundestagswahl is in 4 years -- the Landtagswahl in Niedersachsen is on Oct 15 -- yes, the entire German Establishment, including the taxpayer-funded state media, vehemently propagandizes against the AfD (this is not unique in Europe, see below), which also has internal problems.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLQpOqkXUAExQqZ.jpg

    Shame they don’t go after their pedophiles with such zeal, but I guess that would put at least half of the elite behind bars if they did.

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  76. Eagle Eye says:
    @RadicalCenter
    Now for a federal program that does the same thing with Puerto Ricans: pay them to go back to their country permanently. (and legislation to establish that the territory is no longer part of the USA)

    pay [Puerto Ricans] to go back to their country permanently. (and legislation to establish that [Puerto Rico] is no longer part of the USA)

    Puerto Rico (the “rich port”) should be auctioned off to Latin American countries. They will all try to outbid each other to show up the hated Yanquis and expand their territory.

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  77. Eagle Eye says:
    @Anonymous
    Sending them to Puerto Rico doesn't sound like a bad idea, though still easy enough to get back here. Perhaps better would be Madagascar or New Guinea. Maybe we can require trade arrangements with the countries we give monetary aid to- you know, like Tanzania, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Israel, etc.- in exchange for the cash, you take X amount of homeless off our hands. Of course, this only makes sense if we aren't taking in the 'huddled masses' that the rest of the world doesn't want. Otherwise we're just circle jerking on an international level.

    The French-built Statue of Liberty has become a fallen woman.

    Time to deport her, with her Lazarene creed intact, to welcome new settlers to Monrovia, Liberia.

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  78. Why not pay for them to get passports, then get them a ticket to the EU? The EU loves to take in immigrants of color, and since most of these homeless people are (probably) black, it should be wildly successful. Even if they try to deport them, they’ll probably have lost their passports and won’t have a home address for U.S. authorities to deal with—easier to keep them in the system in the EU.

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  79. @eD
    Some commentators alluded to this,but its worth noting that homelessness is handled differently in developing countries. The poorest part of the population just moves to some area and constructs a shanty-town with whatever materials they have on hand. Sometimes these shanty-towns develop to the point where they don't look much different from the relatively middle class urban and suburban neighborhoods. Sometimes they stay looking like, well, shanty-towns. They are very visible and get much sympathy from visitors from more developed countries. But you see fewer bums on the streets.

    And when you do see people on the street, they tend to have a blanket out with various knick nacks they are trying to sell. They get around by means of what we would call dollar vans and gypsy cabs, which are rarely licensed.

    The thing in the developed world all this stuff is illegal. Try to build a place to live or run a business, even just selling knick knacks off a blanket, without a permit and you will have problems with the police. So these people become bums or find some way to get sent to jail.

    interesting theory, but it contradicts what I’ve seen and experienced with the homeless. In my area, and in my friendships, all homeless people are mentally ill and addicted to substances. Additionally, they are single, and have zero self-control or respect for authority. Left to themselves they will sponge off of whoever they can and drink/take drugs all day.

    The type of people you’re describing in the third world are in our welfare system. The women all have a kid with no husband/provider and the men are working off the books or on disability.

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  80. @biz
    What's to stop them from living for a year on that money then taking a bus back to NYC and getting another bribe to leave, rinse repeat?

    The city STILL saves money under that scenario. Plus, some percentage will stay out where human life isn’t crushed by the ridiculous housing costs of Gotham. My guess is a large percentage.

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  81. @Guy de Champlagne
    Tieing the housing to some kind of implanted long term birth control (something that would have to be invented for men), it would pay back society even more.

    In lots of European countries they have public housing that's isolated from the rest of society. Copying that would make the program work even better.

    You can, in fact, build projects that don’t breed more anomie and crime:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensible_space_theory

    Isolating them doesn’t work as well.

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  82. Big Bill says:
    @Muse
    Poor/homeless/vagrants have always been a problem.

    This link is to a nice little summation of how the English tried to tackle the problem.

    http://www.cornellcollege.edu/english/Blaugdone/essays/vagrancy.htm

    Here is a snippet:

    In 1601, England passed the Act for the Relief of the Poor, which would be the commanding authority on this issue until 1834. This act established the church as the sole establishment responsible for the care of the poor. If a family was not able to get by, it was the responsibility of the area parish to ensure that the family was taken care of (Woodbridge 272). However, it also established the deserving from the undeserving poor. Common traits of those considered deserving included the hard-working, the disabled, the locals, the householders, and the settled. The undeserving poor were the idle, the ones that feigned disability, the foreign, the homeless, and the wanderers (Woodbridge 22-23). Those that were considered undeserving were the ones targeted for vagrancy.
     
    Ultimately the most workable solution allowed the church to deny assistance to the undeserving. Widows and orphans are OK but bastards, prostitutes and malingers are on their own.

    Until WWII, American counties/cities had workhouses/poorhouses/county farms/orphanages for the destitute and chronically indigent. Somehow the system evolved into a massive, individual-rights-based state and federal bureaucracy. The courts were probably a big reason.

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  83. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Chicago used to have a pretty sizable skid row. The down-and-out could scrounge up enough to rent a coop at one of the local flophouses. Rather substandard but it got them out of the cold. If a person didn’t like the squalid look of the area it was easy to just steer clear of it. The place was it’s own little world. The real estate people wanted the area so it was demolished and replaced by the usual condos and chain stores. As a result the people who would have been the residents of that skid row are now scattered and living everywhere and in your face. Skid row served a purpose.

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  84. Sending NYC’s homeless people (home?) to Puerto Rico is a pretty good prank, but I think P.R. is going to get us back but good:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-03/rossello-s-dire-warning-millions-may-flee-in-puerto-rico-exodus

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  85. DRA says:
    @Anonymous
    By the way, I’ve seen studies that the most effective way to combat homelessness is just to put them up in apartments (doesn’t have to be too fancy), even when looked at on a cost effectiveness basis.

    Why did Reagan close the mental hospitals? It's been a pretty big disaster, no?

    I remember it being JFK, rather than Reagan.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    No, it was the ACLU. They went judge shopping and finally got some judge to declare mental illness a lifestyle choice, or something, and made it much harder to both keep and commit people to mental institutions. The idea was these people would all show up at local clinics and get their meds. Up into the 1960s, some 1/3 of all hospital beds were in mental institutions, so states were happy to off load these people and their cost. The movie One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest helped in a big way. Now we have a multi-billion dollar homeless industry.
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  86. @DRA
    I remember it being JFK, rather than Reagan.

    No, it was the ACLU. They went judge shopping and finally got some judge to declare mental illness a lifestyle choice, or something, and made it much harder to both keep and commit people to mental institutions. The idea was these people would all show up at local clinics and get their meds. Up into the 1960s, some 1/3 of all hospital beds were in mental institutions, so states were happy to off load these people and their cost. The movie One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest helped in a big way. Now we have a multi-billion dollar homeless industry.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    man I knew who was from Peru told me that once a shanty town reaches a certain size the local city or country is obliged by law too put in roads, electricity water etc. Sounds like a good idea.
    , @Hare Krishna
    It was Reagan as governor who signed the Lanterman-Petris Act, written by conservative Republican Frank Lanterman of La Canada and liberal Democrat Nick Petris of Oakland. But anyone who was governor of California at that time would have signed it. Clearing out the mental hospitals had support across the political spectrum. Back then California was seen as a pace-setter for the whole nation, so other states copied it. There was no political capital gained in opposing it (much like the '65 immigration law which also had universal support across the political spectrum)
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  87. If we get all the countries doing it at the same time, we can upgrade them from undocumented gypsies to undockable boat people.

    Sealandia! Libertarians, a dream awaits us.

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  88. eah says:

    OT

    Student loan debt.

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    • Agree: Autochthon
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  89. Jimi says:
    @whorefinder
    As with most government programs, this will become a racket. I can picture some enterprising gangsters getting homeless people to take the program and rent an apartment in, say, Newark or Yonkers, then kicking them out and renting out the apartment at twice the rate to some illegal immigrant family.

    How would NYC ever check on this? Never, and they wouldn't have jurisdiction, and unless the Newark/Yonkers authorities were paid off (another racket), the Newark/Yonkers authorities would raise a stink if NYC ever told them they were moving mentally-diseased grifters into their city.

    Getting back to NYC is a 20 minute ride on Path Train, $2.50 for 1 way ticket.

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  90. Romanian says: • Website
    @Peter Johnson
    In polite conversation, "Romanian" is a euphemism for "Roma gypsy" and no, they are not white in the sense of European ancestry. They originate from India and settled in Romania and other countries in Europe quite a few generations ago. But, no, the "Romanians" meaning Roma gypsies are not white in the sense of ethnic European ancestry.

    Why did you reply to me? I know that :). You must have wanted to reply to Triumph104.

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  91. Pass the parasite.

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  92. @Alfa158
    43 million times 1 million dollars comes out to 43 trillion dollars. That would be the entire federal budget for about 12 years, or more than 2 years of the entire US gross domestic product.

    Mathematics are racist!

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  93. @StillCARealist
    Why can't the cities let private renters run the equivalent of flophouses? Basically barracks and shared bathrooms. The guys could rent for months or for a night for dirt cheap. Strict rules for morals and cleanliness but you get a safe place to sleep and eat, albeit really low quality. As long as these options exist then the rules against sleeping in the parks and streets can be enforced.

    the other option would be prison camps where the only exit is good behavior. And these would have to be bare bones cheap out in the desert or wildernesses.

    I've known a few homeless guys and the only language they understand is sober discipline. If there's any free time then they're drinking/smoking pot/gambling/loafing/fighting/stealing.

    There were once plenty of SRO (single room occupancy) places (flop houses) where you could get a room with a bath down the hall for cheap. Most of these were torn down starting in the 60s with the promise that they would be replaced by affordable housing.

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  94. Alden says:
    @Anonymous
    American whites no longer need to move to East Europe to experience the maladies of EE!

    The entire world is exporting their peculiar problems and peculiar ways of dealing with problems to the US.

    One of the biggest rackets is all those old Asians, mostly Chinese who arrive with their fraudulent ID claiming to be 65 years old and thus eligible for SSI $800 more or less depending on the state every month. And there is even more than $800 in medicare and medicaid, free bus passes, free senior van transportation, food banks, food stamps and of course fast track to senior housing.

    Many are not 65 but in their fifties and although too old and disabled to work, go to work in the family business. And of course 2 or 3 old people bringing in around $800 per month makes up a big part of the mortgage payment. In case you wonder how so many Chinese manage to live in Silicon Valley and the Bay Area that’s how they do it. Crowded housing and using the SSI checks for the payments.

    During the early and mid 20th century, southerners called it “Greyhound Probation” They gave the black troublemakers a bus ticket to NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and other northern cities.

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  95. Alden says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    No, it was the ACLU. They went judge shopping and finally got some judge to declare mental illness a lifestyle choice, or something, and made it much harder to both keep and commit people to mental institutions. The idea was these people would all show up at local clinics and get their meds. Up into the 1960s, some 1/3 of all hospital beds were in mental institutions, so states were happy to off load these people and their cost. The movie One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest helped in a big way. Now we have a multi-billion dollar homeless industry.

    man I knew who was from Peru told me that once a shanty town reaches a certain size the local city or country is obliged by law too put in roads, electricity water etc. Sounds like a good idea.

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  96. @StillCARealist
    Why can't the cities let private renters run the equivalent of flophouses? Basically barracks and shared bathrooms. The guys could rent for months or for a night for dirt cheap. Strict rules for morals and cleanliness but you get a safe place to sleep and eat, albeit really low quality. As long as these options exist then the rules against sleeping in the parks and streets can be enforced.

    the other option would be prison camps where the only exit is good behavior. And these would have to be bare bones cheap out in the desert or wildernesses.

    I've known a few homeless guys and the only language they understand is sober discipline. If there's any free time then they're drinking/smoking pot/gambling/loafing/fighting/stealing.

    I’ve known a few homeless guys and the only language they understand is sober discipline.

    If they could respond to discipline they wouldn’t be homeless in the first place.

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  97. @Jim Don Bob
    No, it was the ACLU. They went judge shopping and finally got some judge to declare mental illness a lifestyle choice, or something, and made it much harder to both keep and commit people to mental institutions. The idea was these people would all show up at local clinics and get their meds. Up into the 1960s, some 1/3 of all hospital beds were in mental institutions, so states were happy to off load these people and their cost. The movie One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest helped in a big way. Now we have a multi-billion dollar homeless industry.

    It was Reagan as governor who signed the Lanterman-Petris Act, written by conservative Republican Frank Lanterman of La Canada and liberal Democrat Nick Petris of Oakland. But anyone who was governor of California at that time would have signed it. Clearing out the mental hospitals had support across the political spectrum. Back then California was seen as a pace-setter for the whole nation, so other states copied it. There was no political capital gained in opposing it (much like the ’65 immigration law which also had universal support across the political spectrum)

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    • Replies: @NOTA
    Yet another well-intentioned social reform that clobbered the people it was supposed to help....

    (Though the mental institutions of the day were apparently pretty grim places.)
    , @Jim Don Bob
    I stand corrected.
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  98. @Anonymous
    Sending them to Puerto Rico doesn't sound like a bad idea, though still easy enough to get back here. Perhaps better would be Madagascar or New Guinea. Maybe we can require trade arrangements with the countries we give monetary aid to- you know, like Tanzania, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Israel, etc.- in exchange for the cash, you take X amount of homeless off our hands. Of course, this only makes sense if we aren't taking in the 'huddled masses' that the rest of the world doesn't want. Otherwise we're just circle jerking on an international level.

    Yeah, but because of Hurricane Maria they are coming back to New York City. The states with the most Puerto Ricans now are New York, Florida, and Texas. Its funny it will come back to bite DeBlasco. I had this idea myself, a relocated voucher for the homeless in California. Anaheim and Santa Ana have them at the Santa Ana River bed, but the Republicans there never get on board.

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  99. NOTA says:
    @res
    Two big problems with that:
    - The (average) effect on their new neighbors.
    - The unfairness and moral hazard issues.

    Any "solution" to the homeless problem that fails to provide proper incentives (e.g. to support yourself as much as possible and not be a problem to others) is not a solution at all.

    Some homeless people are crazy or addicted or otherwise unfixably f-cked up. Wherever you send them, they’re going to be a burden, and they’re hardly ever going to get better.

    Some homeless people are folks at the bottom who got ground up in the gears somehow, often people whose ability to support themselves and function were pretty marginal to begin with. (So one serious problem wrecked them.). The right kind of assistance programs might actually help them, but even when they get back into being able to pay rent somewhere, they will still not be paying a lot of taxes, and their kids won’t be bringing up the test scores in the local schools.

    The local authorities have an incentive to send both groups away, but one group might actually improve if handled properly.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    These were the people of whom Oliver Wendell Holmes correctly stated three generations of were enough.
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  100. NOTA says:
    @Hare Krishna
    It was Reagan as governor who signed the Lanterman-Petris Act, written by conservative Republican Frank Lanterman of La Canada and liberal Democrat Nick Petris of Oakland. But anyone who was governor of California at that time would have signed it. Clearing out the mental hospitals had support across the political spectrum. Back then California was seen as a pace-setter for the whole nation, so other states copied it. There was no political capital gained in opposing it (much like the '65 immigration law which also had universal support across the political spectrum)

    Yet another well-intentioned social reform that clobbered the people it was supposed to help….

    (Though the mental institutions of the day were apparently pretty grim places.)

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  101. @Hare Krishna
    It was Reagan as governor who signed the Lanterman-Petris Act, written by conservative Republican Frank Lanterman of La Canada and liberal Democrat Nick Petris of Oakland. But anyone who was governor of California at that time would have signed it. Clearing out the mental hospitals had support across the political spectrum. Back then California was seen as a pace-setter for the whole nation, so other states copied it. There was no political capital gained in opposing it (much like the '65 immigration law which also had universal support across the political spectrum)

    I stand corrected.

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  102. MEH 0910 says:

    Amoosevay.

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  103. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @NOTA
    Some homeless people are crazy or addicted or otherwise unfixably f-cked up. Wherever you send them, they're going to be a burden, and they're hardly ever going to get better.

    Some homeless people are folks at the bottom who got ground up in the gears somehow, often people whose ability to support themselves and function were pretty marginal to begin with. (So one serious problem wrecked them.). The right kind of assistance programs might actually help them, but even when they get back into being able to pay rent somewhere, they will still not be paying a lot of taxes, and their kids won't be bringing up the test scores in the local schools.

    The local authorities have an incentive to send both groups away, but one group might actually improve if handled properly.

    These were the people of whom Oliver Wendell Holmes correctly stated three generations of were enough.

    Read More
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  104. “Last year, the top destinations were Florida, Puerto Rico and North Carolina, according to DHS.”

    Puerto Rico, a worthless island that should not be part of the US.

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  105. Well, this certainly may seem like a racket but it’s clear they’re looking to re-value NY to take real-estate prices through the roof. About why one can’t come back 12 months later and run the same track again- by that time, there’ll probably be a half-constructed apartment building that will go out for twice the price. Also, I’m pretty sure that the sharks that devised the proposition will have created some fashion of failsafe to alert them of a scam or redundancy. Also, yes, this is like dumping your problems somewhere else, over actually resolving it; but then again it is also an actual chance for a better quality of life for those that are serious- considering taxes, healthcare and overheads in New York leave your coiffeurs bone-dry.

    Jack,
    http://www.qualitydissertation.co.uk/

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