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A pretty good portrait of the culture that got the human race to the moon, from only a modestly tsk-tsking Current Year perspective, in the Washington Post:

The hard-charging space program: Breakthroughs, breakups and breakneck

By Karen Heller June 18

… In archival Apollo 11 photos and footage, it’s a “Where’s Waldo?” exercise to spot a woman or person of color.

“I don’t want to be politically incorrect here, but the workforce, the culture, was white male. In the firing room, we had almost 500 people and we have one female, one black guy and one Hispanic,” says Ike Rigell, 96, chief engineer and deputy director of launch vehicle operations at the Kennedy Space Center in Central Florida. “That was the culture.”

… He calculates that “every hour of spaceflight required more than 1 million hours of work on the ground.”

“We were in a race with another country, an adversary. That was what the whole thing was about,” says Jim Ogle, who worked in McDonnell Douglas’s Saturn electronics division and was stationed in the firing room the July morning of the launch. “Russia had beaten us into space. The decision was we had to beat them.”

As Tom Wolfe said: single combat, our best vs. your best, our David vs. your Goliath (or, to be fair to the under-resourced but scrappy Soviets, the reverse).

A heck of a lot better than a nuclear war.

The space program imagined the future. Yet the community of trim haircuts, shaved chins, white shirts (with contractors’ company badges emblazoned on their pockets) and pressed slacks, led by many veterans of World War II, seemed decades removed from the prevalent culture that was shaggier, angrier and sometimes stoned. …

1969’s stereotype of long-haired radicals was more like a small percentage of the country. I lived 6 miles north of the center of the rock and roll industry on the Sunset Strip, and life daily still looked much like 1965, just with more lime green and orange and more collar-length hair. It really took until perhaps 1973 for the Sixties to become the Prevalent Culture nationally.

In 1966, Frances “Poppy” Northcutt was hired as a “computress,” a title that sounds as though she was a female machine. …

When Northcutt was promoted after more than a year, her salary spiked to $150 a week, a raise of 60 percent. She became a return-to-Earth specialist, calculating the mission trajectory — her degree is in mathematics — and became the first woman in a technical position in Houston.

More often, women were employed as secretaries. Before email, correspondence had to be typed by someone, and with multiple carbon copies.

… “Typing orders for managers, we had to be perfect. No Wite-Out. When you were preparing for a launch, there was an endless amount of paper coming in.”

Judy Wyatt served as secretary to George Low, the manager of the Apollo Spacecraft Program in Houston. (He was named NASA deputy administrator in December 1969.) “I was the early girl,” says Wyatt, one of three secretaries who took dictation and typed his letters (both at 120 correct words per minute) from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m.

… Women also served on the medical staff. “About 30 percent of the computer programmers were women,” Northcutt says, like the women heralded in “Hidden Figures.” At higher echelons? Not so much. …

It was a tumultuous year of change, yet women in the space program weren’t permitted to wear slacks. Northcutt and Hirasaki were in their 20s, with long hair, and favored miniskirts.

Long hair and a miniskirt was not at all a bad look.

Basically, in 1969 there were a giant number of Baby Boomer young women age 23 and under who were competing intensely with other women for the smaller number of high earning pre-Baby Boomer men over age 23. So skirts got shorter and hair got longer.

“There were a couple of guys who were pretty ‘handsy.’ Nobody did a thing about it,” Hirasaki says. But “nobody was going to mess with Poppy. They’d ask her to make them coffee, and she would say, ‘My ovaries do not uniquely qualify me to make coffee.’ ” …

They caroused with the same intensity they brought to the workplace. Launch parties after each mission were blowouts. “It was fun,” Hirasaki says, echoing the sentiment of many engineers. “It was really exciting. Everyone who wasn’t in the program thought we were rock stars.”

Last year’s pretty good Neil Armstrong biopic “First Man” by Damien Chazelle depicts the astronauts as dedicated Family Men, but the reality is it was a pretty hard-partying age. Short-haired squares tended to have more fun back then than the liberated have today.

She lived in the Balboa apartment complex a couple of blocks from the Manned Spacecraft Center on Nassau Bay. Weekends were long parties. “We had hootenannies in the apartments, 30 people sitting around singing songs by the Kingston Trio and Joan Baez.” She married neighbor and fellow engineer John Hirasaki, one of the few Asian Americans employed by the program. Ultimately, he was given a plum assignment as recovery engineer inside the Mobile Quarantine Facility, a converted Airstream trailer, with the flight crew and surgeon aboard the USS Hornet, 900 miles southwest of Hawaii in the North Pacific Ocean.

Work, so much work, became a challenge to family life.

“Engineers are different,” Jim Ogle says. “They worked all those hours, then came home to the garage, building a sailboat, building an airplane.” Northcutt recalls that in Houston, “a lot of guys had sailboats, but they worked on their boats more than they took them out sailing.”

With work all-encompassing, “it took a real toll on the family environment. A lot of families just didn’t survive,” Sieck says. “It was long hours. You finally got a Saturday off, you played golf or went fishing or had an afternoon poker party with fellow worker friends.” Sunday, it was often back to work.

Divorce was rampant.

When people get married young, they don’t always make the right choices. Plus, they still have options in the sexual marketplace.

Also, there were all those 23-and-under female Baby Boomers around in their distracting miniskirts out to snag a high-earning man.

Especially in Florida. Cape Canaveral became the capital of kaput unions. The court was overwhelmed.

In Brevard County, 1,600 divorce cases were filed each year in the late 1960s, and 1,200 granted, Judge Volie Williams told a local publication.

Ike Rigell made sure that wouldn’t happen to him. “I left my work at the space center,” he says.

“That saved our marriage,” says Kathryn Rigell. “When we got him, he came home, he was daddy. He was Ike.”

 
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  1. • Replies: @Laurence Whelk
    What a pleasure to see and hear a poised, intelligent woman speaking correct English in a calm, rational voice instead of the shrieking, whining, blathering pussy hats.
    , @El Dato
    Something special and calm about that interview style. Is it the range of the vocabulary?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDha7nj4s10

    Today's CGI-supported "interviews" are like twerking while grating on a blackboard with fingernails.
  2. … In archival Apollo 11 photos and footage, it’s a “Where’s Waldo?” exercise to spot a woman or person of color.

    NASA did a live Periscope video this morning, mirroring activities that took place fifty years ago. The announcer stated right at the top that in this historic room, engineers monitored and eventually issued the “Go for launch” command.

    He stated that the room contained 400 male engineers… and one woman.

    Guess who they interviewed, representing the hundreds of engineers. No, go ahead – guess. I’ll wait.

    I’ll bet you guessed.

  3. Poppy Northcut really must have made an impression in a roomful of crewcut mission control engineers.

    • Replies: @Anon000
    Poppy later became a lawyer and according to Wikipedia “works and volunteers for several organizations in Houston advocating for abortion rights.”

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ejmZF7wazXc/UoFSjNFsU0I/AAAAAAAAdqE/B74oaO1P_6k/s400/poppy+1.jpg
    , @Abolish_public_education
    What’s a “mission control engineer”?

    If you mean those guys in the picture, they’re technicians.

    After that ridiculous Apollo program (abolish NASA), the aerospace contractors figured out that by job-titling technicians as engineers, they could charge taxpayers more.
    , @Mr. Anon
    The Saturn V - a rocket propelled by privilege and hate!
  4. On Saturday night I watched a two hour documentary on the Apollo program that was shown on the National Geographic channel. It was great to see the footage from the space age but also depressing to know that that world is gone for good and the future it promised will never be. By the end of it I felt like Charlton Heston in the original Planet of the Apes, when he sees the wreckage of the Statue of Liberty.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Moses

    By the end of it I felt like Charlton Heston in the original Planet of the Apes, when he sees the wreckage of the Statue of Liberty.
     
    Great comment. Captures exactly my feeling too.
    , @Mr. Anon
    Ditto to what commenter Moses said.

    They (we) took a pretty good, competent, optimistic, with-it country, and turned it into degenerate clown-world.

    , @Prester John
    We spearheaded the victory over the Axis in WWII and we landed on the moon within the time-frame of which JFK spoke. What this country can do when we put our collective heads together and join hands! That has all gone with the wind, and in it's place we have...well...as the inscription reads on the tomb of Sir Christopher Wren at St. Paul's in London "Si monumentum requiris, circumspice"--"You want a memorial, look around."
  5. I caught the very end of the Vietnam generation in the military. Beer tents in the field. Lots of partying and understanding someone did something stupid because they were drunk–as long as no one got raped or crippled.

    Then as soon as they retired it turned into a bunch of jerks who hated drinking and anyone having any fun.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    Things have gotten really bad ever since the one-two punch of Bushie Bible Bashers and Obamaite feminist harridans and eunuchs have done their best to prevent that worst horror of horrors, the most self-evident threat to our national security that they could spend their energy on: a 20-something man enjoying himself.

    Even a lot of the stuff that went on the 80s and 90s wouldn't fly today. Hell, they've even clamped down on base-side prostitution. How much of a deranged moralist do you need to be to seriously try to keep hookers away from soldiers? It's like keeping a dog away from a steak. It just ain't natural. It's also counterproductive, because it heightens the risk of disease, or worse.

    , @L Woods
    "Why is recruiting and retention bad," they wondered. Simply can't imagine why the military has become less and less attractive to genuine talent since they gelded it and turned it into a nunnery. Unfortunately, the normiecons that fill its ranks rarely draw this connection, despite themselves suffering under its implications. Instead, they equivocate by grumbling about paperwork and retention bonuses. Cowardice.
    , @J.Ross
    Not just partying. There was an idea that getting the job done was more important than following all the rules. Now we have people on trial for hurting the feelings of people we asked them to kill.
    ...
    I can't find the Terminal Lance that illustrates this but it's tightly argued.
    , @Twinkie

    I caught the very end of the Vietnam generation in the military.
     
    I knew very well an Air Force pilot of that generation. He claimed he used to party all night with other pilots and then climb aboard his aircraft in the morning and use the oxygen mask for his hangovers. And even the higher-up's took lots of chances - as he'd say, back then, "It ain't the Red Flag unless someone dies" (Red Flag is an aerial combat training exercise). Combat training was meant to be realistic and that meant there were attendant risks. Now, of course, senior officers are terrified of someone under his command getting hurt, let alone dying, during training, because that would also hurt his career.

    Even as late as the first Gulf War (Desert Storm/Desert Shield), there were lots of shenanigans and perks for being an officer, especially a relative senior one, that wouldn't be tolerated today. There were lots of JAG officers running about Saudi/Kuwait/Iraq back then, dealing with officers in the desert with the girl types of situations (in addition to the usual females turning tricks).

    For better or worse, the U.S. military reflects the society at large more and more, including work environments/habits, with lots of time spent on minutiae of mission-planning on PowerPoint and whatnot and a heck of lot less on improvising and taking chances.
    , @Anonymous
    It was still like that in the all male parts of the USN until at least the early 90s (probably much later in the sub and SEAL communities). We had wardroom lunches at Pacers in San Diego ("just a kiss away") in 1993 and it wasn't even seen as risque.
  6. Anonymous[391] • Disclaimer says:

    It’d be great if there was a White Atlas Shrugged Month. A month in which all white males refuse to contribute to the economy.

    You’d think white males, having created the greatest economy, should be lauded and appreciated. Instead, they are blamed.

    • Agree: Dtbb, M_Young
    • Replies: @L Woods
    Like that black history month commercial from ages ago where all the black people disappeared...except, you know, not unintentionally hilarious.
  7. The main problem with the movie ‘First Man’ was that all of the previews showed Neil Armstrong’s wife emoting about How Hard This Was On Her And The Family. Which I’m sure it was. But I get enough of that at home, thanks, don’t want to pay twenty bucks to see another wife do what my wife does (or used to do when I took call). For a movie that naturally appeals more to guys than women this was the kiss of death–guys were no longer revved up to see it, and women were only ever going to go if guys dragged them along.

    I saw it on DVD and there was less emoting and more piloting than I expected, a pleasant surprise. I might have seen it in theaters if I had known that.

    Anyway I’m available for consulting if any Hollywood types want to pay me.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    I thought the movie was dumb with all kinds of shaking in the lunar module that didn't happen in real life in order to add "excitement" to the lunar landing. There is actual film taken inside the lunar module and it is smooth as glass. It's not like they are getting buffeted in the wind currents.
  8. anon[338] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve,

    You may want to make comments on what Mexico has sent us in the La Lux del Mundo megachurch scandal, where their leader, “the apostle” Naason Joaquin Garcia, is charged with multiple sex crimes, including child rape. I was at the LA courthouse this week and there was a huge turnout of people for just the bail hearing: probably a couple dozen lawyers, a gaggle of well-healed supporters, and Spanish-language TV reporters. He must have lots of pesos and there will surely be a phalanx of defense lawyers.

    One of the defense lawyers, Ken Rosenfeld, was prominent in a gaudy three-piece suit. Story and pictures at:

    https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation/prosecutors-want-mexican-megachurch-leader-held-without-bail/

    Bill in Glendale

    • Replies: @Lot
    I’ve got to assume a lawyer with that suit only represents guilty clients. Is that wrong?

    https://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/urn-publicid-ap-org-6d4d6e9394ab468794010678d5928a3bMexican_Church_Leader_Child_Rapes_11626-780x479.jpg
    , @Mark Raven
    Latino molesting children? Isn't that sort of a 'dog bites man' story?
  9. And then they came for Wernher von Braun in the current year.

    • Replies: @prime noticer
    "And then they came for Wernher von Braun in the current year."

    they already came for his second in command, Arthur Rudolf, main designer of the Saturn V, all the way back in 1984.

    so they're a little slow. then again, Von Braun is no longer alive, so they don't get the satisfaction of going after a Real Live Naaazi.

    they probably would, if he was still around today. instead they'll have to settle for writing him out of his already brief 1 paragraph mention in US history books.

    Hidden Figures explained who really got us into space anyway. and it wasn't some stupid old Nazi.
    , @Mr. Anon

    And then they came for Wernher von Braun in the current year.
     
    Actually, they came for him in 1970. He was promoted up to a window-manager job at NASA HQ, probably in the hopes that it would insult him off and he would leave (this is a common tactic in a bureaucracy). He did. Fairchild hired him as a VP for something-or-another, but essentially his career ended soon after Apollo 11.

    I have heard it alleged by insiders that he was purged because of his wartime service for the Third Reich. Some people hold a grudge. I don't knowfor certain if it's true, but it is a credible explanation.
  10. @Lawyer Guy
    I caught the very end of the Vietnam generation in the military. Beer tents in the field. Lots of partying and understanding someone did something stupid because they were drunk--as long as no one got raped or crippled.

    Then as soon as they retired it turned into a bunch of jerks who hated drinking and anyone having any fun.

    Things have gotten really bad ever since the one-two punch of Bushie Bible Bashers and Obamaite feminist harridans and eunuchs have done their best to prevent that worst horror of horrors, the most self-evident threat to our national security that they could spend their energy on: a 20-something man enjoying himself.

    Even a lot of the stuff that went on the 80s and 90s wouldn’t fly today. Hell, they’ve even clamped down on base-side prostitution. How much of a deranged moralist do you need to be to seriously try to keep hookers away from soldiers? It’s like keeping a dog away from a steak. It just ain’t natural. It’s also counterproductive, because it heightens the risk of disease, or worse.

    • Replies: @L Woods

    Hell, they’ve even clamped down on base-side prostitution. How much of a deranged moralist do you need to be to seriously try to keep hookers away from soldiers?
     
    It's to "fight human trafficking," quote unquote. Most basic white guys are so beaten down and brainwashed today that they actually internalize this transparently self-serving feminist tripe.

    Hell, they’ve even clamped down on base-side prostitution. How much of a deranged moralist do you need to be to seriously try to keep hookers away from soldiers?
     
    Indeed, it's proof positive to anyone with a triple digit IQ who troubles to think about it (read: a tiny, marginalized minority) that the never ending crusade against "sexual assault" actually has nothing to do with sexual assault; they could virtually end it overnight by decriminalizing prostitution. But then the barracks 10s would lose their outrageous privilege, and we most certainly can't have that. So, they'll just repress harder.
    , @Mr. Anon

    Even a lot of the stuff that went on the 80s and 90s wouldn’t fly today. Hell, they’ve even clamped down on base-side prostitution.
     
    They're even clamping down on smoking in prisons. As if we wanted convicted felons who are 1.) on edge, and 2.) super healthy. It's madness.
  11. “‘computress,’ a title that sounds as though she was a female machine”

    I don’t know what a female machine is, but not really. Or not if you know what computation is.

  12. Why is that particular game of Where’s Waldo being played? I don’t look for black girls in combat footage from WWI or white dudes in N.W.A. videos not dressed in cop uniforms.

  13. In the firing room, we had almost 500 people and we have one female, one black guy and one Hispanic ….

    Sounds like the setup to a good joke.

    The space program imagined the future. Yet the community of trim haircuts, shaved chins, white shirts (with contractors’ company badges emblazoned on their pockets) and pressed slacks, led by many veterans of World War II, seemed decades removed from the prevalent culture that was shaggier, angrier and sometimes stoned….

    I dunno, check out the sideburns and shirt/tie cominations of some of the guys in the firing room … those guys were really pushing the edge of the envelope.

    Basically, in 1969 there were a giant number of Baby Boomer young women age 23 and under who were competing intensely for the smaller number of high earning pre-Baby Boomer men over age 23. So skirts got shorter and hair got longer.

    And not a Hidden Figure in sight.

  14. We are not going to the moon anytime soon, Trump and NASA’s statements notwithstanding. The culture described above will not be permitted to exist again for the foreseeable future. What I see are diversity Pokémon point hiring quotas, minority contracting set asides, SJW purple hair hires more concerned with perceived patriarchy than trajectories, and a big flaming explosion on a Florida launchpad.

    I am convinced by Ed Dutton and Michael Woodley’s argument that the world is getting progressively dumber and the era of doing BIG SMART THINGS is pretty much over. Yes, there are still very intelligent people at the far end of the curve, but just read above how crucial it was for every person down to the lowest level to perform with total focus and NO ERRORS. Those days are behind us.

    http://books.imprint.co.uk/book/?gcoi=71157100317440

    Also, the Apollo team, the US government and the American public were largely motivated by and united in a common patriotic pursuit – what common values and bonds exist to provide cohesion and motivation in the current year?

    • Replies: @prime noticer
    "We are not going to the moon anytime soon, Trump and NASA’s statements notwithstanding."

    because as soon as Trump loses the 2020 election, all that stuff will be scrapped and the money will be diverted to giving the incoming brown hordes free healthcare. do people not remember what Obama did almost immediately when coming into office?

    i've tried to explain this stuff to futurists like Anatoly Karlin. the phrase you're looking for here is:

    vibrant political capture of smart fraction output.

    millions of people hated the Apollo program in the 60s and were loudly vocal against it. spend the money feeding useless africans, don't build any dumb outer space stuff, they said. even into the 00s, i still encountered people who thought 100% of all outer space stuff was a positively idiotic waste of money, and not all of them were vibrant either. we're talking adults with degrees. tons of leftists think space is idiotic.

    this time around, they will get their way. it will be up to Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, and other private billionaires. if it's ever going to happen. and imagine the political battle over which person gets to put their boot on Mars first. that's the most infuriating thing. a million leftist bureaucrats who did everything in their power to shut down space exploration, will suddenly be super pushy about who goes on that first Mars mission.

    , @Macumazahn
    Quite right. America simply no longer has the human capital to send a woman to the Moon, and even if we did, the drive to do so just isn't there anymore. It's why I weep whenever I watch 2001: A Space Odyssey - we should have had Clavius Moonbase, but instead we got Facebook and Twitter.
    Dutton and Woodley of Menie sum it up beautifully in a single paragraph late in their book:

    Civilisations seem to follow a fairly predictable pattern. Low g, stressful, religious societies undergo group expansion and selection for g via downward social mobility. Eventually, they blossom into civilisations. However, civilisation reduces selection for g due to medicine, improved living conditions, and lower levels of stress leading to kindly attitudes to the poor. Civilisation innovates contraception and reduces religiousness both by reducing stress and by reflecting an elevated level of g. As a consequence, the wealthiest–who also tend to have higher g–reach a level of rationalism and security where they take control of their lives. They understand that children arrive through their effort, not God's will; their child mortality is relatively low, they want to give a high standard of living to their children so they can compete, and they are, anyway, interested in intellectual pursuits and irreligious ideas which incline them not to have children. So, they successfully use contraception to reduce their fertility. Those with lower g are less able to use contraception, insufficiently forward thinking to do so, have more stressful lives, are more religious, and are less rational. So, society's average g starts to decline and civilisation eventually collapses back to a Dark Age. Selection for high g then strongly reasserts itself, especially when the climate becomes harsher and colder, and the process occurs all over again.
     
    , @Mr. Anon
    You are exactly right.

    1960s NASA (that actually went to the Moon) - white guys with crew-cuts

    2010s NASA (that won't actually go to the Moon) - this stuff:

    https://www.nasa.gov/centers/hq/eodm/employee_resource_groups/pride_alliance
  15. These wall-stones are wondrous —
    calamities crumpled them, these city-sites crashed, the work of giants
    corrupted. The roofs have rushed to earth, towers in ruins.
    Ice at the joints has unroofed the barred-gates, sheared
    the scarred storm-walls have disappeared—
    the years have gnawed them from beneath. A grave-grip holds
    the master-crafters, decrepit and departed, in the ground’s harsh
    grasp, until one hundred generations of human-nations have
    trod past. Subsequently this wall, lichen-grey and rust-stained,
    often experiencing one kingdom after another,
    standing still under storms, high and wide—
    it failed—

    • Agree: Laurence Whelk
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Is this a varied "translation" of the first English poem?
    , @vinteuil
    Powerful stuff.

    The halls of the city
    once were bright...

    Days of misfortune arrived—blows fell broadly—
    death seized all those sword-stout men—their idol-fanes were laid waste —
    the city-steads perished...This place has sunk into ruin, been broken
    into heaps...


    https://anglosaxonpoetry.camden.rutgers.edu/the-ruin/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ruin
  16. A heck of a lot better than a nuclear war.

    So you might think! But in the Current Year we know better. It turns out that nuclear war would have been vastly preferable to letting white males run anything.

  17. @syonredux
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfhfEx3lqh0

    What a pleasure to see and hear a poised, intelligent woman speaking correct English in a calm, rational voice instead of the shrieking, whining, blathering pussy hats.

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    What a pleasure to see and hear a poised, intelligent woman speaking correct English in a calm, rational voice instead of the shrieking, whining, blathering pussy hats.
     
    Must be a Poppy thing. Katharine Julia "Poppy" Harlow of CNN is one of the rare such women in media today.

    One is a small-town Louisiana girl, the other a Minneapolis preppie. Upbringing counts for something.
    , @Mr. Anon

    What a pleasure to see and hear a poised, intelligent woman speaking correct English in a calm, rational voice instead of the shrieking, whining, blathering pussy hats.
     
    She became a feminist harpy in the 70s. In the interviews with her, she goes on at length about the rampant "sexism" in the space-program. But at the time, she got a lot of media attention, photographed in the latest 60s mod fashions - mini-skirts and all. She seemed to like the attention. And she did get a job doing what a lot of men did, and which most women did not want to do. Honestly, I don't know what her problem was.
  18. Hirasaki says. But “nobody was going to mess with Poppy. They’d ask her to make them coffee, and she would say, ‘My ovaries do not uniquely qualify me to make coffee.’ ”

    I call BS. No decent white woman would have spoken that way back then, particularly in mixed company. Hirasaki is a retconning fabulist.

    • Replies: @Laurence Whelk
    Agreed.
    , @Elli
    "Ovaries" is not a dirty word and back then, the men who might have thought so probably wouldn't have understood what it meant.

    My mother was that age then, with a master's degree in biochemistry, and she would have said that to male colleagues who wanted coffee. It's the terminology, and the pedantic expression, and the scientific audience that make that a not indecent thing to say.

    Professional women needed sharp elbows sometimes, even the ones who were sweet, soft-spoken and modest in both senses of the word.
  19. Anonymous[153] • Disclaimer says:

  20. @nebulafox
    Things have gotten really bad ever since the one-two punch of Bushie Bible Bashers and Obamaite feminist harridans and eunuchs have done their best to prevent that worst horror of horrors, the most self-evident threat to our national security that they could spend their energy on: a 20-something man enjoying himself.

    Even a lot of the stuff that went on the 80s and 90s wouldn't fly today. Hell, they've even clamped down on base-side prostitution. How much of a deranged moralist do you need to be to seriously try to keep hookers away from soldiers? It's like keeping a dog away from a steak. It just ain't natural. It's also counterproductive, because it heightens the risk of disease, or worse.

    Hell, they’ve even clamped down on base-side prostitution. How much of a deranged moralist do you need to be to seriously try to keep hookers away from soldiers?

    It’s to “fight human trafficking,” quote unquote. Most basic white guys are so beaten down and brainwashed today that they actually internalize this transparently self-serving feminist tripe.

    Hell, they’ve even clamped down on base-side prostitution. How much of a deranged moralist do you need to be to seriously try to keep hookers away from soldiers?

    Indeed, it’s proof positive to anyone with a triple digit IQ who troubles to think about it (read: a tiny, marginalized minority) that the never ending crusade against “sexual assault” actually has nothing to do with sexual assault; they could virtually end it overnight by decriminalizing prostitution. But then the barracks 10s would lose their outrageous privilege, and we most certainly can’t have that. So, they’ll just repress harder.

  21. Place an order for your very own personal “computress” today!

  22. @Lawyer Guy
    I caught the very end of the Vietnam generation in the military. Beer tents in the field. Lots of partying and understanding someone did something stupid because they were drunk--as long as no one got raped or crippled.

    Then as soon as they retired it turned into a bunch of jerks who hated drinking and anyone having any fun.

    “Why is recruiting and retention bad,” they wondered. Simply can’t imagine why the military has become less and less attractive to genuine talent since they gelded it and turned it into a nunnery. Unfortunately, the normiecons that fill its ranks rarely draw this connection, despite themselves suffering under its implications. Instead, they equivocate by grumbling about paperwork and retention bonuses. Cowardice.

  23. @Anonymous
    It'd be great if there was a White Atlas Shrugged Month. A month in which all white males refuse to contribute to the economy.

    You'd think white males, having created the greatest economy, should be lauded and appreciated. Instead, they are blamed.

    Like that black history month commercial from ages ago where all the black people disappeared…except, you know, not unintentionally hilarious.

  24. Eric Burdon, 60s:

    70s:

    • Replies: @Hhsiii
    Spill the Wine
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    I think the Brit 'comedian' Stewart Lee looks like the young Eric Burdon.
  25. anon[338] • Disclaimer says:

    The Earth continued to spin on its axis. The moon illuminated the night sky. Then, three weeks after splashdown, more than 400,000 young people gathered for a music festival at a dairy farm near Woodstock, N.Y.

    Woodstock was quite non-diverse, too. Maybe a schmozzle in many ways, but little violence, and no homicides, AFAIK.

    That image from LIFE of the brunette in the purple skirt was seared into my teenage consciousness many years ago. I hope life was good to her.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    young people gathered for a music festival at a dairy farm near Woodstock, N.Y.
     
    Even upstate, fifty miles as the crow flies, sixty by the shortest drive, isn't anywhere "near". Woodstock, either the town or the village, wasn't having any of it.

    It was hosted by a Russian-Jewish Republican dairy farmer in Bethel.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Yasgur
  26. @Mark Raven

    Hirasaki says. But “nobody was going to mess with Poppy. They’d ask her to make them coffee, and she would say, ‘My ovaries do not uniquely qualify me to make coffee.’ ”
     
    I call BS. No decent white woman would have spoken that way back then, particularly in mixed company. Hirasaki is a retconning fabulist.

    Agreed.

  27. @anon
    Steve,

    You may want to make comments on what Mexico has sent us in the La Lux del Mundo megachurch scandal, where their leader, “the apostle” Naason Joaquin Garcia, is charged with multiple sex crimes, including child rape. I was at the LA courthouse this week and there was a huge turnout of people for just the bail hearing: probably a couple dozen lawyers, a gaggle of well-healed supporters, and Spanish-language TV reporters. He must have lots of pesos and there will surely be a phalanx of defense lawyers.

    One of the defense lawyers, Ken Rosenfeld, was prominent in a gaudy three-piece suit. Story and pictures at:

    https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation/prosecutors-want-mexican-megachurch-leader-held-without-bail/

    Bill in Glendale

    I’ve got to assume a lawyer with that suit only represents guilty clients. Is that wrong?

    • LOL: Corn
    • Replies: @Corn
    Herb Tarlek is alive and practicing law.
    , @kaganovitch
    That suit is ample grounds for disbarment.
  28. @Mark Raven

    Hirasaki says. But “nobody was going to mess with Poppy. They’d ask her to make them coffee, and she would say, ‘My ovaries do not uniquely qualify me to make coffee.’ ”
     
    I call BS. No decent white woman would have spoken that way back then, particularly in mixed company. Hirasaki is a retconning fabulist.

    “Ovaries” is not a dirty word and back then, the men who might have thought so probably wouldn’t have understood what it meant.

    My mother was that age then, with a master’s degree in biochemistry, and she would have said that to male colleagues who wanted coffee. It’s the terminology, and the pedantic expression, and the scientific audience that make that a not indecent thing to say.

    Professional women needed sharp elbows sometimes, even the ones who were sweet, soft-spoken and modest in both senses of the word.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    If she really hated the Patriarchy, she'd have said, "my ovaries can't make coffee but maybe you'd like an omelette?"
    , @Mark Raven
    Women often need sharp elbows. No one's disputing that. But decent women (and she was clearly decent) would not have used graphic anatomical terminology in mixed company, let alone in a room full of men. The times were different.
  29. @Laurence Whelk
    What a pleasure to see and hear a poised, intelligent woman speaking correct English in a calm, rational voice instead of the shrieking, whining, blathering pussy hats.

    What a pleasure to see and hear a poised, intelligent woman speaking correct English in a calm, rational voice instead of the shrieking, whining, blathering pussy hats.

    Must be a Poppy thing. Katharine Julia “Poppy” Harlow of CNN is one of the rare such women in media today.

    One is a small-town Louisiana girl, the other a Minneapolis preppie. Upbringing counts for something.

  30. @anon
    Steve,

    You may want to make comments on what Mexico has sent us in the La Lux del Mundo megachurch scandal, where their leader, “the apostle” Naason Joaquin Garcia, is charged with multiple sex crimes, including child rape. I was at the LA courthouse this week and there was a huge turnout of people for just the bail hearing: probably a couple dozen lawyers, a gaggle of well-healed supporters, and Spanish-language TV reporters. He must have lots of pesos and there will surely be a phalanx of defense lawyers.

    One of the defense lawyers, Ken Rosenfeld, was prominent in a gaudy three-piece suit. Story and pictures at:

    https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation/prosecutors-want-mexican-megachurch-leader-held-without-bail/

    Bill in Glendale

    Latino molesting children? Isn’t that sort of a ‘dog bites man’ story?

  31. @Lawyer Guy
    I caught the very end of the Vietnam generation in the military. Beer tents in the field. Lots of partying and understanding someone did something stupid because they were drunk--as long as no one got raped or crippled.

    Then as soon as they retired it turned into a bunch of jerks who hated drinking and anyone having any fun.

    Not just partying. There was an idea that getting the job done was more important than following all the rules. Now we have people on trial for hurting the feelings of people we asked them to kill.

    I can’t find the Terminal Lance that illustrates this but it’s tightly argued.

  32. I’ve got to assume a lawyer with that suit only represents guilty clients. Is that wrong?

    Does he have a billboard?

    https://www.minnpost.com/twin-cities-business/2015/05/fyi-tsr/

  33. I need a suit like that. For Halloween.

    Now instead of 23 year old women pursuing slightly older men its 30 year old men desperately pursuing 39 year old used up ladies. Who have purple hair , 20 tats, a number count 2.5 the tat count, and an extra 25lbs.

    Birth dearth has its cost. Among them lack of a reliable supply of younger women to keep the older ones honest.

    Now it seems most young men view their female contemporaries as less appealing than a night in playing video games.

  34. @Elli
    "Ovaries" is not a dirty word and back then, the men who might have thought so probably wouldn't have understood what it meant.

    My mother was that age then, with a master's degree in biochemistry, and she would have said that to male colleagues who wanted coffee. It's the terminology, and the pedantic expression, and the scientific audience that make that a not indecent thing to say.

    Professional women needed sharp elbows sometimes, even the ones who were sweet, soft-spoken and modest in both senses of the word.

    If she really hated the Patriarchy, she’d have said, “my ovaries can’t make coffee but maybe you’d like an omelette?”

  35. @Elli
    "Ovaries" is not a dirty word and back then, the men who might have thought so probably wouldn't have understood what it meant.

    My mother was that age then, with a master's degree in biochemistry, and she would have said that to male colleagues who wanted coffee. It's the terminology, and the pedantic expression, and the scientific audience that make that a not indecent thing to say.

    Professional women needed sharp elbows sometimes, even the ones who were sweet, soft-spoken and modest in both senses of the word.

    Women often need sharp elbows. No one’s disputing that. But decent women (and she was clearly decent) would not have used graphic anatomical terminology in mixed company, let alone in a room full of men. The times were different.

    • Replies: @Mark Raven
    Correction: Attractive women need sharp elbows. Other women have them for two reasons: one, they're resentful that they're not attractive and/or two, they like to think that they're attractive even though they're not.
  36. @SFG
    These wall-stones are wondrous —
    calamities crumpled them, these city-sites crashed, the work of giants
    corrupted. The roofs have rushed to earth, towers in ruins.
    Ice at the joints has unroofed the barred-gates, sheared
    the scarred storm-walls have disappeared—
    the years have gnawed them from beneath. A grave-grip holds
    the master-crafters, decrepit and departed, in the ground’s harsh
    grasp, until one hundred generations of human-nations have
    trod past. Subsequently this wall, lichen-grey and rust-stained,
    often experiencing one kingdom after another,
    standing still under storms, high and wide—
    it failed—

    Is this a varied “translation” of the first English poem?

    • Replies: @SFG
    First one I found--seemed apropos. I'm not trying to make my own translations of Old English, thank you very much.
  37. “It really took until perhaps 1973 for the Sixties to become the Prevalent Culture nationally.”

    By then, even in the South, redneck was out and longer hair in among young men.

  38. @Mark Raven
    Women often need sharp elbows. No one's disputing that. But decent women (and she was clearly decent) would not have used graphic anatomical terminology in mixed company, let alone in a room full of men. The times were different.

    Correction: Attractive women need sharp elbows. Other women have them for two reasons: one, they’re resentful that they’re not attractive and/or two, they like to think that they’re attractive even though they’re not.

  39. There were a couple of guys who were pretty ‘handsy.’ Nobody did a thing about it,” Hirasaki says. But “nobody was going to mess with Poppy. They’d ask her to make them coffee, and she would say, ‘My ovaries do not uniquely qualify me to make coffee.’ ” …

    Hey, stop with the TERF-talk, bigot.

  40. @Lot
    I’ve got to assume a lawyer with that suit only represents guilty clients. Is that wrong?

    https://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/urn-publicid-ap-org-6d4d6e9394ab468794010678d5928a3bMexican_Church_Leader_Child_Rapes_11626-780x479.jpg

    Herb Tarlek is alive and practicing law.

  41. “We had hootenannies in the apartments, 30 people sitting around singing songs by the Kingston Trio…

    Here’s one of my Dad’s favorites, which captures the humor of that era, and the ambivalence about technology :

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=MCTdfo6T-u8

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Two of those guys went to Punahou. Which places Barack Obama third among alumni, at best.
  42. My uncle had a job doing analysis at Rocketdyne in Canoga Park, California. There was always anxiety there about job loss after we made it to the moon.

  43. @J.Ross
    Is this a varied "translation" of the first English poem?

    First one I found–seemed apropos. I’m not trying to make my own translations of Old English, thank you very much.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    It's quite good. The first one I read, which I think is from the midcentury medievalism craze, starts, "Well-built, this wall: wyrds broke it."
  44. @jcd1974
    On Saturday night I watched a two hour documentary on the Apollo program that was shown on the National Geographic channel. It was great to see the footage from the space age but also depressing to know that that world is gone for good and the future it promised will never be. By the end of it I felt like Charlton Heston in the original Planet of the Apes, when he sees the wreckage of the Statue of Liberty.

    By the end of it I felt like Charlton Heston in the original Planet of the Apes, when he sees the wreckage of the Statue of Liberty.

    Great comment. Captures exactly my feeling too.

  45. @SFG
    First one I found--seemed apropos. I'm not trying to make my own translations of Old English, thank you very much.

    It’s quite good. The first one I read, which I think is from the midcentury medievalism craze, starts, “Well-built, this wall: wyrds broke it.”

  46. @Lot
    I’ve got to assume a lawyer with that suit only represents guilty clients. Is that wrong?

    https://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/urn-publicid-ap-org-6d4d6e9394ab468794010678d5928a3bMexican_Church_Leader_Child_Rapes_11626-780x479.jpg

    That suit is ample grounds for disbarment.

  47. 1969, 50th anniversaries: Stonewall Inn (a “National Historic Landmark” and a “National Monument”) and the Johnson Space Center, Apollo 11 Lunar Landing Control Center (a concrete marker).

    • Replies: @Anon000
    Tonight the Washington Monument is being used to project a hologram of the Apollo 11 Saturn V rocket.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/pictureshow/2019/07/16/742394200/for-apollo-11s-anniversary-the-washington-monument-becomes-a-rocket

    https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2019/07/16/image-from-ios-46-_custom-76631528213fdfe4c66ef4165bdc52165b8e56bf-s800-c85.jpg
  48. @CCZ
    1969, 50th anniversaries: Stonewall Inn (a “National Historic Landmark” and a “National Monument”) and the Johnson Space Center, Apollo 11 Lunar Landing Control Center (a concrete marker).

    https://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.11973410.1467054008!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_1280/image.jpg

    https://www.hmdb.org/Photos3/378/Photo378958o.jpg

    Tonight the Washington Monument is being used to project a hologram of the Apollo 11 Saturn V rocket.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/pictureshow/2019/07/16/742394200/for-apollo-11s-anniversary-the-washington-monument-becomes-a-rocket

  49. @iffen
    And then they came for Wernher von Braun in the current year.

    “And then they came for Wernher von Braun in the current year.”

    they already came for his second in command, Arthur Rudolf, main designer of the Saturn V, all the way back in 1984.

    so they’re a little slow. then again, Von Braun is no longer alive, so they don’t get the satisfaction of going after a Real Live Naaazi.

    they probably would, if he was still around today. instead they’ll have to settle for writing him out of his already brief 1 paragraph mention in US history books.

    Hidden Figures explained who really got us into space anyway. and it wasn’t some stupid old Nazi.

  50. @Lot
    Eric Burdon, 60s:

    http://images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/79/590x/secondary/9697.jpg

    https://assets.catawiki.nl/assets/2015/11/17/a/b/a/aba2334e-8d2a-11e5-99d9-de1f8b7855a3.jpg

    70s:

    http://img.wennermedia.com/920-width/rs-134927-eric-burdon.jpg

    https://abel63.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/6a00d414298a4e3c7f0123ddd7cd28860c.jpg

    Spill the Wine

  51. @Laurence Whelk
    We are not going to the moon anytime soon, Trump and NASA’s statements notwithstanding. The culture described above will not be permitted to exist again for the foreseeable future. What I see are diversity Pokémon point hiring quotas, minority contracting set asides, SJW purple hair hires more concerned with perceived patriarchy than trajectories, and a big flaming explosion on a Florida launchpad.

    I am convinced by Ed Dutton and Michael Woodley’s argument that the world is getting progressively dumber and the era of doing BIG SMART THINGS is pretty much over. Yes, there are still very intelligent people at the far end of the curve, but just read above how crucial it was for every person down to the lowest level to perform with total focus and NO ERRORS. Those days are behind us.

    http://books.imprint.co.uk/book/?gcoi=71157100317440

    Also, the Apollo team, the US government and the American public were largely motivated by and united in a common patriotic pursuit - what common values and bonds exist to provide cohesion and motivation in the current year?

    “We are not going to the moon anytime soon, Trump and NASA’s statements notwithstanding.”

    because as soon as Trump loses the 2020 election, all that stuff will be scrapped and the money will be diverted to giving the incoming brown hordes free healthcare. do people not remember what Obama did almost immediately when coming into office?

    i’ve tried to explain this stuff to futurists like Anatoly Karlin. the phrase you’re looking for here is:

    vibrant political capture of smart fraction output.

    millions of people hated the Apollo program in the 60s and were loudly vocal against it. spend the money feeding useless africans, don’t build any dumb outer space stuff, they said. even into the 00s, i still encountered people who thought 100% of all outer space stuff was a positively idiotic waste of money, and not all of them were vibrant either. we’re talking adults with degrees. tons of leftists think space is idiotic.

    this time around, they will get their way. it will be up to Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, and other private billionaires. if it’s ever going to happen. and imagine the political battle over which person gets to put their boot on Mars first. that’s the most infuriating thing. a million leftist bureaucrats who did everything in their power to shut down space exploration, will suddenly be super pushy about who goes on that first Mars mission.

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted

    millions of people hated the Apollo program in the 60s and were loudly vocal against it. spend the money feeding useless africans, don’t build any dumb outer space stuff, they said.
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWNe5Cwix9I
    It seems Mr Scott-Heron (fine auld Border names, those) believed that YT paid no taxes, or possibly did not pay the taxes that fed and housed his co-ethnics in large part, while his taxes, perhaps all taxes that blacks may have contributed, or rather had confiscated from them in his view, were ring-fenced for space-travel rather than paying for infrastructure, military and welfare. Perhaps he believed that (tax-paying) Whites were a minority?
    It's such a scramble-headed position I have difficulty untangling it, apart from recognising disingenuous whingeing and panhandling when I hear it.
  52. @PiltdownMan
    Poppy Northcut really must have made an impression in a roomful of crewcut mission control engineers.

    https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2019/06/poppy-northcutt-first-woman-mission-control.jpg?w=560&h=429

    https://astronomy.com/-/media/Images/Apollo2019/women/Apollo11missioncontrol.jpg?mw=600

    Poppy later became a lawyer and according to Wikipedia “works and volunteers for several organizations in Houston advocating for abortion rights.”

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    I wonder if she ever had kids. If not, she was an early genetic casualty of feminism. Looks, brains, poise... she had the lot.
  53. @PiltdownMan
    Poppy Northcut really must have made an impression in a roomful of crewcut mission control engineers.

    https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2019/06/poppy-northcutt-first-woman-mission-control.jpg?w=560&h=429

    https://astronomy.com/-/media/Images/Apollo2019/women/Apollo11missioncontrol.jpg?mw=600

    What’s a “mission control engineer”?

    If you mean those guys in the picture, they’re technicians.

    After that ridiculous Apollo program (abolish NASA), the aerospace contractors figured out that by job-titling technicians as engineers, they could charge taxpayers more.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    iirc from my adolescence, the positions were titled "Director", "Controller", "Manager", "Officer" or "Engineer." The communications people were ComTechs, i.e. "communications technician." A perusal of extensive archives of Apollo-era documents online confirms that.

    About 11,000 hours of audio from the Apollo 11 mission have been preserved by NASA and made available online.

    http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-072518a-apollo11-audio-loop-archive.html
  54. NASA is the US Postal Service in zero-g.

  55. @anon

    The Earth continued to spin on its axis. The moon illuminated the night sky. Then, three weeks after splashdown, more than 400,000 young people gathered for a music festival at a dairy farm near Woodstock, N.Y.
     
    Woodstock was quite non-diverse, too. Maybe a schmozzle in many ways, but little violence, and no homicides, AFAIK.

    That image from LIFE of the brunette in the purple skirt was seared into my teenage consciousness many years ago. I hope life was good to her.

    young people gathered for a music festival at a dairy farm near Woodstock, N.Y.

    Even upstate, fifty miles as the crow flies, sixty by the shortest drive, isn’t anywhere “near”. Woodstock, either the town or the village, wasn’t having any of it.

    It was hosted by a Russian-Jewish Republican dairy farmer in Bethel.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Yasgur

  56. @Anon7
    “We had hootenannies in the apartments, 30 people sitting around singing songs by the Kingston Trio...

    Here’s one of my Dad’s favorites, which captures the humor of that era, and the ambivalence about technology :

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=MCTdfo6T-u8

    Two of those guys went to Punahou. Which places Barack Obama third among alumni, at best.

  57. @Lawyer Guy
    I caught the very end of the Vietnam generation in the military. Beer tents in the field. Lots of partying and understanding someone did something stupid because they were drunk--as long as no one got raped or crippled.

    Then as soon as they retired it turned into a bunch of jerks who hated drinking and anyone having any fun.

    I caught the very end of the Vietnam generation in the military.

    I knew very well an Air Force pilot of that generation. He claimed he used to party all night with other pilots and then climb aboard his aircraft in the morning and use the oxygen mask for his hangovers. And even the higher-up’s took lots of chances – as he’d say, back then, “It ain’t the Red Flag unless someone dies” (Red Flag is an aerial combat training exercise). Combat training was meant to be realistic and that meant there were attendant risks. Now, of course, senior officers are terrified of someone under his command getting hurt, let alone dying, during training, because that would also hurt his career.

    Even as late as the first Gulf War (Desert Storm/Desert Shield), there were lots of shenanigans and perks for being an officer, especially a relative senior one, that wouldn’t be tolerated today. There were lots of JAG officers running about Saudi/Kuwait/Iraq back then, dealing with officers in the desert with the girl types of situations (in addition to the usual females turning tricks).

    For better or worse, the U.S. military reflects the society at large more and more, including work environments/habits, with lots of time spent on minutiae of mission-planning on PowerPoint and whatnot and a heck of lot less on improvising and taking chances.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    HMS Queen Elizabeth captain flown off ship in 'company car row'

    > That's the aircraft carrier with no catapult and no planes
    > "Cdre Cooke-Priest, who joined the Royal Navy in 1990, has been in command of HMS Queen Elizabeth since October last year"
    > Kicked off
    > Used the "ship's car" for personal business
    > "Anyone who has use of an MoD vehicle can only use it for official business, with each mile needing to be recorded."
    > It's a fucking Ford Galaxy
  58. @Laurence Whelk
    What a pleasure to see and hear a poised, intelligent woman speaking correct English in a calm, rational voice instead of the shrieking, whining, blathering pussy hats.

    What a pleasure to see and hear a poised, intelligent woman speaking correct English in a calm, rational voice instead of the shrieking, whining, blathering pussy hats.

    She became a feminist harpy in the 70s. In the interviews with her, she goes on at length about the rampant “sexism” in the space-program. But at the time, she got a lot of media attention, photographed in the latest 60s mod fashions – mini-skirts and all. She seemed to like the attention. And she did get a job doing what a lot of men did, and which most women did not want to do. Honestly, I don’t know what her problem was.

    • Replies: @bc
    Young ladies in those days were well-spoken and possessed of a modesty and decorum rare these days, but they were still women; they liked attention.
  59. @jcd1974
    On Saturday night I watched a two hour documentary on the Apollo program that was shown on the National Geographic channel. It was great to see the footage from the space age but also depressing to know that that world is gone for good and the future it promised will never be. By the end of it I felt like Charlton Heston in the original Planet of the Apes, when he sees the wreckage of the Statue of Liberty.

    Ditto to what commenter Moses said.

    They (we) took a pretty good, competent, optimistic, with-it country, and turned it into degenerate clown-world.

  60. @Abolish_public_education
    What’s a “mission control engineer”?

    If you mean those guys in the picture, they’re technicians.

    After that ridiculous Apollo program (abolish NASA), the aerospace contractors figured out that by job-titling technicians as engineers, they could charge taxpayers more.

    iirc from my adolescence, the positions were titled “Director”, “Controller”, “Manager”, “Officer” or “Engineer.” The communications people were ComTechs, i.e. “communications technician.” A perusal of extensive archives of Apollo-era documents online confirms that.

    About 11,000 hours of audio from the Apollo 11 mission have been preserved by NASA and made available online.

    http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-072518a-apollo11-audio-loop-archive.html

  61. @nebulafox
    Things have gotten really bad ever since the one-two punch of Bushie Bible Bashers and Obamaite feminist harridans and eunuchs have done their best to prevent that worst horror of horrors, the most self-evident threat to our national security that they could spend their energy on: a 20-something man enjoying himself.

    Even a lot of the stuff that went on the 80s and 90s wouldn't fly today. Hell, they've even clamped down on base-side prostitution. How much of a deranged moralist do you need to be to seriously try to keep hookers away from soldiers? It's like keeping a dog away from a steak. It just ain't natural. It's also counterproductive, because it heightens the risk of disease, or worse.

    Even a lot of the stuff that went on the 80s and 90s wouldn’t fly today. Hell, they’ve even clamped down on base-side prostitution.

    They’re even clamping down on smoking in prisons. As if we wanted convicted felons who are 1.) on edge, and 2.) super healthy. It’s madness.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    It's like all the Narcotics Anonymous meetings at the Unitarian Church -- about 15 years ago, they banned smoking, so all the poor junkies and coke addicts are out on the curb during breaks, smoking away in the rain.
  62. @Laurence Whelk
    We are not going to the moon anytime soon, Trump and NASA’s statements notwithstanding. The culture described above will not be permitted to exist again for the foreseeable future. What I see are diversity Pokémon point hiring quotas, minority contracting set asides, SJW purple hair hires more concerned with perceived patriarchy than trajectories, and a big flaming explosion on a Florida launchpad.

    I am convinced by Ed Dutton and Michael Woodley’s argument that the world is getting progressively dumber and the era of doing BIG SMART THINGS is pretty much over. Yes, there are still very intelligent people at the far end of the curve, but just read above how crucial it was for every person down to the lowest level to perform with total focus and NO ERRORS. Those days are behind us.

    http://books.imprint.co.uk/book/?gcoi=71157100317440

    Also, the Apollo team, the US government and the American public were largely motivated by and united in a common patriotic pursuit - what common values and bonds exist to provide cohesion and motivation in the current year?

    Quite right. America simply no longer has the human capital to send a woman to the Moon, and even if we did, the drive to do so just isn’t there anymore. It’s why I weep whenever I watch 2001: A Space Odyssey – we should have had Clavius Moonbase, but instead we got Facebook and Twitter.
    Dutton and Woodley of Menie sum it up beautifully in a single paragraph late in their book:

    Civilisations seem to follow a fairly predictable pattern. Low g, stressful, religious societies undergo group expansion and selection for g via downward social mobility. Eventually, they blossom into civilisations. However, civilisation reduces selection for g due to medicine, improved living conditions, and lower levels of stress leading to kindly attitudes to the poor. Civilisation innovates contraception and reduces religiousness both by reducing stress and by reflecting an elevated level of g. As a consequence, the wealthiest–who also tend to have higher g–reach a level of rationalism and security where they take control of their lives. They understand that children arrive through their effort, not God’s will; their child mortality is relatively low, they want to give a high standard of living to their children so they can compete, and they are, anyway, interested in intellectual pursuits and irreligious ideas which incline them not to have children. So, they successfully use contraception to reduce their fertility. Those with lower g are less able to use contraception, insufficiently forward thinking to do so, have more stressful lives, are more religious, and are less rational. So, society’s average g starts to decline and civilisation eventually collapses back to a Dark Age. Selection for high g then strongly reasserts itself, especially when the climate becomes harsher and colder, and the process occurs all over again.

  63. @Laurence Whelk
    We are not going to the moon anytime soon, Trump and NASA’s statements notwithstanding. The culture described above will not be permitted to exist again for the foreseeable future. What I see are diversity Pokémon point hiring quotas, minority contracting set asides, SJW purple hair hires more concerned with perceived patriarchy than trajectories, and a big flaming explosion on a Florida launchpad.

    I am convinced by Ed Dutton and Michael Woodley’s argument that the world is getting progressively dumber and the era of doing BIG SMART THINGS is pretty much over. Yes, there are still very intelligent people at the far end of the curve, but just read above how crucial it was for every person down to the lowest level to perform with total focus and NO ERRORS. Those days are behind us.

    http://books.imprint.co.uk/book/?gcoi=71157100317440

    Also, the Apollo team, the US government and the American public were largely motivated by and united in a common patriotic pursuit - what common values and bonds exist to provide cohesion and motivation in the current year?

    You are exactly right.

    1960s NASA (that actually went to the Moon) – white guys with crew-cuts

    2010s NASA (that won’t actually go to the Moon) – this stuff:

    https://www.nasa.gov/centers/hq/eodm/employee_resource_groups/pride_alliance

    • Replies: @JMcG
    Energy infrastructure is a long way down that same road. The infrastructure is crumbling at the same time that diversity hiring is really getting up to speed. It’s going to be an interesting couple of decades coming up.
    , @Anonymous

    2010s NASA (that won’t actually go to the Moon) – this stuff:
     
    No need to go to the moon when homos are now baring their moons.
  64. @iffen
    And then they came for Wernher von Braun in the current year.

    And then they came for Wernher von Braun in the current year.

    Actually, they came for him in 1970. He was promoted up to a window-manager job at NASA HQ, probably in the hopes that it would insult him off and he would leave (this is a common tactic in a bureaucracy). He did. Fairchild hired him as a VP for something-or-another, but essentially his career ended soon after Apollo 11.

    I have heard it alleged by insiders that he was purged because of his wartime service for the Third Reich. Some people hold a grudge. I don’t knowfor certain if it’s true, but it is a credible explanation.

    • Replies: @Prester John
    I believe you are correct. I am currently reading a book about the "long shadow" of the Great War (which hasn't receded to this day, by the way). The author pointed out that it was the Eichmann trial that triggered a new-found interest in the The Holocaust. That trial commenced in April of 1961, right around the time that JFK pledged that we would step on the moon by '69. The likelihood is that von Braun slow demise started then--when, ironically, he was at the top of his game. And the obsession with The Holocaust, the Nazis and Hitler continues to this day.
    , @Jack D
    By 1970, von Braun had long outlived his usefulness. The Soviets also made use of German rocket scientists after the war but they milked them for their knowledge and sent them home in '53 and thereafter relied on home grown talent and not aging Nazis to develop their space program. We should have done the same.
  65. @PiltdownMan
    Poppy Northcut really must have made an impression in a roomful of crewcut mission control engineers.

    https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2019/06/poppy-northcutt-first-woman-mission-control.jpg?w=560&h=429

    https://astronomy.com/-/media/Images/Apollo2019/women/Apollo11missioncontrol.jpg?mw=600

    The Saturn V – a rocket propelled by privilege and hate!

    • LOL: 95Theses
    • Replies: @El Dato
    Tanks full of PoC tears!!

    Recent space news:

    All change at NASA while Proton launches and India's Moon dream suffers a snag

    It was all change in NASA's Human Exploration and Operations office as veteran associate administrator and, we like to think, "voice of reason" William Gerstenmaier was booted into the role of "special advisor" to NASA's deputy administrator, Jim Morhard, and former Shuttle astronaut and ISS Commander Ken Bowersox dropped into the vacant seat.

    The news, first reported by agency antagonists NASAWatch, comes as rumours swirl over a potential pivoting to formalising Mars as a human destination and turning NASA's dreams of a sustainable lunar presence into an Apollo-style flags-and-footprints affair in order to meet US president Donald Trump's 2024 dreams.

    The move is an odd one. Gerstenmaier has been a steadying influence during the decade or more of direction changes inflicted on NASA's human spaceflight programmes by successive US administrations. With his 65th birthday approaching, he could have been forgiven for opting for retirement in light of the over-promising and under-funding of NASA's Moon plans. Instead, it seems a demotion is the order of the day.

    Still, at least the SLS might launch at some point. One day.
     
    And also:

    Experts: No need to worry about Europe's GPS satellites going dark for days. Also: What the hell is going on with those satellites?!

    SpaceX reveals chain of events that caused the unplanned disassembly of Crew Dragon capsule

    Apollo at 50? How about 40 years since Skylab smacked into Australia
  66. @Mr. Anon

    Even a lot of the stuff that went on the 80s and 90s wouldn’t fly today. Hell, they’ve even clamped down on base-side prostitution.
     
    They're even clamping down on smoking in prisons. As if we wanted convicted felons who are 1.) on edge, and 2.) super healthy. It's madness.

    It’s like all the Narcotics Anonymous meetings at the Unitarian Church — about 15 years ago, they banned smoking, so all the poor junkies and coke addicts are out on the curb during breaks, smoking away in the rain.

  67. Anonymous[404] • Disclaimer says:

    The only reason that the 50th anniversary of the moon landings has been distinctly subdued is because it involved, overwhelmingly, heterosexual white men.

    Compare and contrast with the media hyperbole over the ‘Stonewall’ half century.

    • Agree: Duke84
  68. @Twinkie

    I caught the very end of the Vietnam generation in the military.
     
    I knew very well an Air Force pilot of that generation. He claimed he used to party all night with other pilots and then climb aboard his aircraft in the morning and use the oxygen mask for his hangovers. And even the higher-up's took lots of chances - as he'd say, back then, "It ain't the Red Flag unless someone dies" (Red Flag is an aerial combat training exercise). Combat training was meant to be realistic and that meant there were attendant risks. Now, of course, senior officers are terrified of someone under his command getting hurt, let alone dying, during training, because that would also hurt his career.

    Even as late as the first Gulf War (Desert Storm/Desert Shield), there were lots of shenanigans and perks for being an officer, especially a relative senior one, that wouldn't be tolerated today. There were lots of JAG officers running about Saudi/Kuwait/Iraq back then, dealing with officers in the desert with the girl types of situations (in addition to the usual females turning tricks).

    For better or worse, the U.S. military reflects the society at large more and more, including work environments/habits, with lots of time spent on minutiae of mission-planning on PowerPoint and whatnot and a heck of lot less on improvising and taking chances.

    HMS Queen Elizabeth captain flown off ship in ‘company car row’

    > That’s the aircraft carrier with no catapult and no planes
    > “Cdre Cooke-Priest, who joined the Royal Navy in 1990, has been in command of HMS Queen Elizabeth since October last year”
    > Kicked off
    > Used the “ship’s car” for personal business
    > “Anyone who has use of an MoD vehicle can only use it for official business, with each mile needing to be recorded.”
    > It’s a fucking Ford Galaxy

  69. @Mr. Anon
    The Saturn V - a rocket propelled by privilege and hate!

    Tanks full of PoC tears!!

    Recent space news:

    All change at NASA while Proton launches and India’s Moon dream suffers a snag

    It was all change in NASA’s Human Exploration and Operations office as veteran associate administrator and, we like to think, “voice of reason” William Gerstenmaier was booted into the role of “special advisor” to NASA’s deputy administrator, Jim Morhard, and former Shuttle astronaut and ISS Commander Ken Bowersox dropped into the vacant seat.

    The news, first reported by agency antagonists NASAWatch, comes as rumours swirl over a potential pivoting to formalising Mars as a human destination and turning NASA’s dreams of a sustainable lunar presence into an Apollo-style flags-and-footprints affair in order to meet US president Donald Trump’s 2024 dreams.

    The move is an odd one. Gerstenmaier has been a steadying influence during the decade or more of direction changes inflicted on NASA’s human spaceflight programmes by successive US administrations. With his 65th birthday approaching, he could have been forgiven for opting for retirement in light of the over-promising and under-funding of NASA’s Moon plans. Instead, it seems a demotion is the order of the day.

    Still, at least the SLS might launch at some point. One day.

    And also:

    Experts: No need to worry about Europe’s GPS satellites going dark for days. Also: What the hell is going on with those satellites?!

    SpaceX reveals chain of events that caused the unplanned disassembly of Crew Dragon capsule

    Apollo at 50? How about 40 years since Skylab smacked into Australia

  70. @syonredux
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfhfEx3lqh0

    Something special and calm about that interview style. Is it the range of the vocabulary?

    Today’s CGI-supported “interviews” are like twerking while grating on a blackboard with fingernails.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    Something special and calm about that interview style. Is it the range of the vocabulary?

     

    Part of getting educated, or even just learning to grow up, used to be to learn to speak English like an intelligent adult in formal and work situations.

    The ability to speak grammatically in a calm manner was the mark of an adult who took life seriously.

    Neither parents nor schools place much emphasis on all that anymore. People now just string words together as they see fit, imitating the verbal styles they hear around them. Public speaking—debating and elocution—used to be a commonplace extracurricular activity in schools. It isn't, anymore.


    https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/douglas-rain-voice-hal-9000-141056325.html
  71. @SFG
    These wall-stones are wondrous —
    calamities crumpled them, these city-sites crashed, the work of giants
    corrupted. The roofs have rushed to earth, towers in ruins.
    Ice at the joints has unroofed the barred-gates, sheared
    the scarred storm-walls have disappeared—
    the years have gnawed them from beneath. A grave-grip holds
    the master-crafters, decrepit and departed, in the ground’s harsh
    grasp, until one hundred generations of human-nations have
    trod past. Subsequently this wall, lichen-grey and rust-stained,
    often experiencing one kingdom after another,
    standing still under storms, high and wide—
    it failed—

    Powerful stuff.

    The halls of the city
    once were bright…

    Days of misfortune arrived—blows fell broadly—
    death seized all those sword-stout men—their idol-fanes were laid waste —
    the city-steads perished…This place has sunk into ruin, been broken
    into heaps…

    https://anglosaxonpoetry.camden.rutgers.edu/the-ruin/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ruin

  72. @Anon000
    Poppy later became a lawyer and according to Wikipedia “works and volunteers for several organizations in Houston advocating for abortion rights.”

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ejmZF7wazXc/UoFSjNFsU0I/AAAAAAAAdqE/B74oaO1P_6k/s400/poppy+1.jpg

    I wonder if she ever had kids. If not, she was an early genetic casualty of feminism. Looks, brains, poise… she had the lot.

  73. @Lot
    Eric Burdon, 60s:

    http://images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/79/590x/secondary/9697.jpg

    https://assets.catawiki.nl/assets/2015/11/17/a/b/a/aba2334e-8d2a-11e5-99d9-de1f8b7855a3.jpg

    70s:

    http://img.wennermedia.com/920-width/rs-134927-eric-burdon.jpg

    https://abel63.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/6a00d414298a4e3c7f0123ddd7cd28860c.jpg

    I think the Brit ‘comedian’ Stewart Lee looks like the young Eric Burdon.

  74. @El Dato
    Something special and calm about that interview style. Is it the range of the vocabulary?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDha7nj4s10

    Today's CGI-supported "interviews" are like twerking while grating on a blackboard with fingernails.

    Something special and calm about that interview style. Is it the range of the vocabulary?

    Part of getting educated, or even just learning to grow up, used to be to learn to speak English like an intelligent adult in formal and work situations.

    The ability to speak grammatically in a calm manner was the mark of an adult who took life seriously.

    Neither parents nor schools place much emphasis on all that anymore. People now just string words together as they see fit, imitating the verbal styles they hear around them. Public speaking—debating and elocution—used to be a commonplace extracurricular activity in schools. It isn’t, anymore.

    https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/douglas-rain-voice-hal-9000-141056325.html

  75. • Replies: @El Dato
    This is silly. Stop it.

    It would be particularly easy, needless to say, for America to do it again, since we’ve already done all the research and development and testing.
     
    See, this is the kind of quote that immediately outs the author as a rank amateur who doesn't understand how large government-sponsored engineering even works.

    The US couldn't even rebuild the Shuttle now and that has been removed from premises only in 2011.

    Hell, Lawrence Livermore or whomever even forgot how to manufacture FOGBANK material used in fusion bomb triggers.
    , @Mr. Anon
    Dave McGowan was an idiot. His writing even sound like those of an idiot.
  76. @prime noticer
    "We are not going to the moon anytime soon, Trump and NASA’s statements notwithstanding."

    because as soon as Trump loses the 2020 election, all that stuff will be scrapped and the money will be diverted to giving the incoming brown hordes free healthcare. do people not remember what Obama did almost immediately when coming into office?

    i've tried to explain this stuff to futurists like Anatoly Karlin. the phrase you're looking for here is:

    vibrant political capture of smart fraction output.

    millions of people hated the Apollo program in the 60s and were loudly vocal against it. spend the money feeding useless africans, don't build any dumb outer space stuff, they said. even into the 00s, i still encountered people who thought 100% of all outer space stuff was a positively idiotic waste of money, and not all of them were vibrant either. we're talking adults with degrees. tons of leftists think space is idiotic.

    this time around, they will get their way. it will be up to Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, and other private billionaires. if it's ever going to happen. and imagine the political battle over which person gets to put their boot on Mars first. that's the most infuriating thing. a million leftist bureaucrats who did everything in their power to shut down space exploration, will suddenly be super pushy about who goes on that first Mars mission.

    millions of people hated the Apollo program in the 60s and were loudly vocal against it. spend the money feeding useless africans, don’t build any dumb outer space stuff, they said.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWNe5Cwix9I
    It seems Mr Scott-Heron (fine auld Border names, those) believed that YT paid no taxes, or possibly did not pay the taxes that fed and housed his co-ethnics in large part, while his taxes, perhaps all taxes that blacks may have contributed, or rather had confiscated from them in his view, were ring-fenced for space-travel rather than paying for infrastructure, military and welfare. Perhaps he believed that (tax-paying) Whites were a minority?
    It’s such a scramble-headed position I have difficulty untangling it, apart from recognising disingenuous whingeing and panhandling when I hear it.

  77. @Mr. Anon
    You are exactly right.

    1960s NASA (that actually went to the Moon) - white guys with crew-cuts

    2010s NASA (that won't actually go to the Moon) - this stuff:

    https://www.nasa.gov/centers/hq/eodm/employee_resource_groups/pride_alliance

    Energy infrastructure is a long way down that same road. The infrastructure is crumbling at the same time that diversity hiring is really getting up to speed. It’s going to be an interesting couple of decades coming up.

  78. @jcd1974
    On Saturday night I watched a two hour documentary on the Apollo program that was shown on the National Geographic channel. It was great to see the footage from the space age but also depressing to know that that world is gone for good and the future it promised will never be. By the end of it I felt like Charlton Heston in the original Planet of the Apes, when he sees the wreckage of the Statue of Liberty.

    We spearheaded the victory over the Axis in WWII and we landed on the moon within the time-frame of which JFK spoke. What this country can do when we put our collective heads together and join hands! That has all gone with the wind, and in it’s place we have…well…as the inscription reads on the tomb of Sir Christopher Wren at St. Paul’s in London “Si monumentum requiris, circumspice”–“You want a memorial, look around.”

    • Replies: @El Dato
    Also, built deliverable nukes on missiles transported by nuclear-powered building-sized submarines.

    A drink for Rickover.

    Even though no-one-needs planet destroying shit under the ice cap.
  79. @Mr. Anon

    What a pleasure to see and hear a poised, intelligent woman speaking correct English in a calm, rational voice instead of the shrieking, whining, blathering pussy hats.
     
    She became a feminist harpy in the 70s. In the interviews with her, she goes on at length about the rampant "sexism" in the space-program. But at the time, she got a lot of media attention, photographed in the latest 60s mod fashions - mini-skirts and all. She seemed to like the attention. And she did get a job doing what a lot of men did, and which most women did not want to do. Honestly, I don't know what her problem was.

    Young ladies in those days were well-spoken and possessed of a modesty and decorum rare these days, but they were still women; they liked attention.

  80. @Mr. Anon

    And then they came for Wernher von Braun in the current year.
     
    Actually, they came for him in 1970. He was promoted up to a window-manager job at NASA HQ, probably in the hopes that it would insult him off and he would leave (this is a common tactic in a bureaucracy). He did. Fairchild hired him as a VP for something-or-another, but essentially his career ended soon after Apollo 11.

    I have heard it alleged by insiders that he was purged because of his wartime service for the Third Reich. Some people hold a grudge. I don't knowfor certain if it's true, but it is a credible explanation.

    I believe you are correct. I am currently reading a book about the “long shadow” of the Great War (which hasn’t receded to this day, by the way). The author pointed out that it was the Eichmann trial that triggered a new-found interest in the The Holocaust. That trial commenced in April of 1961, right around the time that JFK pledged that we would step on the moon by ’69. The likelihood is that von Braun slow demise started then–when, ironically, he was at the top of his game. And the obsession with The Holocaust, the Nazis and Hitler continues to this day.

  81. @Mr. Anon

    And then they came for Wernher von Braun in the current year.
     
    Actually, they came for him in 1970. He was promoted up to a window-manager job at NASA HQ, probably in the hopes that it would insult him off and he would leave (this is a common tactic in a bureaucracy). He did. Fairchild hired him as a VP for something-or-another, but essentially his career ended soon after Apollo 11.

    I have heard it alleged by insiders that he was purged because of his wartime service for the Third Reich. Some people hold a grudge. I don't knowfor certain if it's true, but it is a credible explanation.

    By 1970, von Braun had long outlived his usefulness. The Soviets also made use of German rocket scientists after the war but they milked them for their knowledge and sent them home in ’53 and thereafter relied on home grown talent and not aging Nazis to develop their space program. We should have done the same.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    Homegrown talent formerly in the gulag:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev

    Interesting:

    Engineer Sergei Khrushchev, son of former Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev, explained in an interview some shortcomings of Korolev's approach, which in his opinion is why the Soviets didn't land on the Moon:

    The Russian people had many problems in day-to-day life, they were not too concerned about the first man on the moon.

    Was Russia pretty close?

    The Russians were not pretty close. I think Russia had no chance to be ahead of the Americans under Sergei Korolev and his successor, Vasili Mishin. ... Korolev was not a scientist, not a designer: he was a brilliant manager. Korolev's problem was his mentality. His intent was to somehow use the launcher he had [the N1 (rocket)]. It was designed in 1958 for a different purpose and with a limited payload of about 70 tons. His philosophy was, let's not work by stages [as is usual in spacecraft design], but let's assemble everything and then try it. And at last it will work. There were several attempts and failures with Lunnik [a series of unmanned Soviet moon probes]. Sending man to the moon is too complicated, too complex for such an approach. I think it was doomed from the very beginning.

    — Saswato R. Das, "The Moon Landing through Soviet Eyes: A Q&A with Sergei Khrushchev, son of former premier Nikita Khrushchev: A son of the Cold War tells what it was like from the losing side of the Space Race—and how the U.S.S.R.’s space program fizzled after Sputnik and Gagarin" [2], Scientific American (July 16, 2009)
     
    , @Mr. Anon

    By 1970, von Braun had long outlived his usefulness.
     
    Maybe not everybody is as casually utilitarian as you are. Anyway your statement is wrong - he still had several good years left in him.


    The Soviets also made use of German rocket scientists after the war but they milked them for their knowledge and sent them home in ’53 and thereafter relied on home grown talent and not aging Nazis to develop their space program. We should have done the same.
     
    Nazi, schmazi. Von Braun didn't even join the Party until it was strongly suggested that it would be good for the program (and perhaps - who knows - his health). He wasn't ideological. Cashiering him was every bit as wrong and stupid as it was to cashier Oppenheimer.

    I might add that with all "home grown talent" the Russians relied on.............they lost.
     
  82. @SimpleSong
    The main problem with the movie 'First Man' was that all of the previews showed Neil Armstrong's wife emoting about How Hard This Was On Her And The Family. Which I'm sure it was. But I get enough of that at home, thanks, don't want to pay twenty bucks to see another wife do what my wife does (or used to do when I took call). For a movie that naturally appeals more to guys than women this was the kiss of death--guys were no longer revved up to see it, and women were only ever going to go if guys dragged them along.

    I saw it on DVD and there was less emoting and more piloting than I expected, a pleasant surprise. I might have seen it in theaters if I had known that.

    Anyway I'm available for consulting if any Hollywood types want to pay me.

    I thought the movie was dumb with all kinds of shaking in the lunar module that didn’t happen in real life in order to add “excitement” to the lunar landing. There is actual film taken inside the lunar module and it is smooth as glass. It’s not like they are getting buffeted in the wind currents.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @El Dato
    Yeah that was unpalatable. Far too much LANDING DRAMA.

    Also that crater looked like something out of Armageddon. The real landing area has been weathered and sandpapered a few billion of years. It's beachy.

    The poor PGCNS got a bit microsoft-y at the end but that's why we have humans in the loop.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKXw_3Pblh8

    While on the subject of Teh Ladies (Not Hidden):

    Margaret Heafield Hamilton (born August 17, 1936) is an American computer scientist, systems engineer, and business owner. She was director of the Software Engineering Division of the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory, which developed on-board flight software for the Apollo space program. In 1986, she founded Hamilton Technologies, Inc., in Cambridge, Massachusetts. The company developed around the Universal Systems Language (USL) based on her paradigm of Development Before the Fact for systems and software design.

    Universal Systems Language has apparently sunk tracelessly. I don't really get it, and find it confusing (here is a nasty attack by Edsger W. Dijkstra, made in '83.) Today we have things like SysML, sundry Logical Formalisms, Design by Contract and other attempts to keep things on track.

    And also, Silly Con Valley:

    Hey Google, What's a Moonshot?: How Silicon Valley Mocks Apollo
  83. @Jack D
    I thought the movie was dumb with all kinds of shaking in the lunar module that didn't happen in real life in order to add "excitement" to the lunar landing. There is actual film taken inside the lunar module and it is smooth as glass. It's not like they are getting buffeted in the wind currents.

    Yeah that was unpalatable. Far too much LANDING DRAMA.

    Also that crater looked like something out of Armageddon. The real landing area has been weathered and sandpapered a few billion of years. It’s beachy.

    The poor PGCNS got a bit microsoft-y at the end but that’s why we have humans in the loop.

    While on the subject of Teh Ladies (Not Hidden):

    Margaret Heafield Hamilton (born August 17, 1936) is an American computer scientist, systems engineer, and business owner. She was director of the Software Engineering Division of the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory, which developed on-board flight software for the Apollo space program. In 1986, she founded Hamilton Technologies, Inc., in Cambridge, Massachusetts. The company developed around the Universal Systems Language (USL) based on her paradigm of Development Before the Fact for systems and software design.

    Universal Systems Language has apparently sunk tracelessly. I don’t really get it, and find it confusing (here is a nasty attack by Edsger W. Dijkstra, made in ’83.) Today we have things like SysML, sundry Logical Formalisms, Design by Contract and other attempts to keep things on track.

    And also, Silly Con Valley:

    Hey Google, What’s a Moonshot?: How Silicon Valley Mocks Apollo

  84. @Prester John
    We spearheaded the victory over the Axis in WWII and we landed on the moon within the time-frame of which JFK spoke. What this country can do when we put our collective heads together and join hands! That has all gone with the wind, and in it's place we have...well...as the inscription reads on the tomb of Sir Christopher Wren at St. Paul's in London "Si monumentum requiris, circumspice"--"You want a memorial, look around."

    Also, built deliverable nukes on missiles transported by nuclear-powered building-sized submarines.

    A drink for Rickover.

    Even though no-one-needs planet destroying shit under the ice cap.

  85. @Flip
    Maybe we didn't go...

    http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/moondoggie-1/

    This is silly. Stop it.

    It would be particularly easy, needless to say, for America to do it again, since we’ve already done all the research and development and testing.

    See, this is the kind of quote that immediately outs the author as a rank amateur who doesn’t understand how large government-sponsored engineering even works.

    The US couldn’t even rebuild the Shuttle now and that has been removed from premises only in 2011.

    Hell, Lawrence Livermore or whomever even forgot how to manufacture FOGBANK material used in fusion bomb triggers.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    It's impossible to argue with these people. They think their ignorance is some kind of proof: "I don't understand how something could be done, therefore it could not have been done".

    They're pathetic nitwits - best to let it go at that.
  86. @Jack D
    By 1970, von Braun had long outlived his usefulness. The Soviets also made use of German rocket scientists after the war but they milked them for their knowledge and sent them home in '53 and thereafter relied on home grown talent and not aging Nazis to develop their space program. We should have done the same.

    Homegrown talent formerly in the gulag:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev

    Interesting:

    Engineer Sergei Khrushchev, son of former Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev, explained in an interview some shortcomings of Korolev’s approach, which in his opinion is why the Soviets didn’t land on the Moon:

    The Russian people had many problems in day-to-day life, they were not too concerned about the first man on the moon.

    Was Russia pretty close?

    The Russians were not pretty close. I think Russia had no chance to be ahead of the Americans under Sergei Korolev and his successor, Vasili Mishin. … Korolev was not a scientist, not a designer: he was a brilliant manager. Korolev’s problem was his mentality. His intent was to somehow use the launcher he had [the N1 (rocket)]. It was designed in 1958 for a different purpose and with a limited payload of about 70 tons. His philosophy was, let’s not work by stages [as is usual in spacecraft design], but let’s assemble everything and then try it. And at last it will work. There were several attempts and failures with Lunnik [a series of unmanned Soviet moon probes]. Sending man to the moon is too complicated, too complex for such an approach. I think it was doomed from the very beginning.

    — Saswato R. Das, “The Moon Landing through Soviet Eyes: A Q&A with Sergei Khrushchev, son of former premier Nikita Khrushchev: A son of the Cold War tells what it was like from the losing side of the Space Race—and how the U.S.S.R.’s space program fizzled after Sputnik and Gagarin” [2], Scientific American (July 16, 2009)

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Of course, Korolev died in January 1966, so it's hard to say what he would have improvised in the 42 months left before Apollo 11.
  87. The article is very close to a crimethought: left unspoken, the US got to the moon because it had no diversity then

  88. Anonymous[536] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lawyer Guy
    I caught the very end of the Vietnam generation in the military. Beer tents in the field. Lots of partying and understanding someone did something stupid because they were drunk--as long as no one got raped or crippled.

    Then as soon as they retired it turned into a bunch of jerks who hated drinking and anyone having any fun.

    It was still like that in the all male parts of the USN until at least the early 90s (probably much later in the sub and SEAL communities). We had wardroom lunches at Pacers in San Diego (“just a kiss away”) in 1993 and it wasn’t even seen as risque.

  89. Anonymous[848] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Anon
    You are exactly right.

    1960s NASA (that actually went to the Moon) - white guys with crew-cuts

    2010s NASA (that won't actually go to the Moon) - this stuff:

    https://www.nasa.gov/centers/hq/eodm/employee_resource_groups/pride_alliance

    2010s NASA (that won’t actually go to the Moon) – this stuff:

    No need to go to the moon when homos are now baring their moons.

  90. @El Dato
    Homegrown talent formerly in the gulag:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev

    Interesting:

    Engineer Sergei Khrushchev, son of former Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev, explained in an interview some shortcomings of Korolev's approach, which in his opinion is why the Soviets didn't land on the Moon:

    The Russian people had many problems in day-to-day life, they were not too concerned about the first man on the moon.

    Was Russia pretty close?

    The Russians were not pretty close. I think Russia had no chance to be ahead of the Americans under Sergei Korolev and his successor, Vasili Mishin. ... Korolev was not a scientist, not a designer: he was a brilliant manager. Korolev's problem was his mentality. His intent was to somehow use the launcher he had [the N1 (rocket)]. It was designed in 1958 for a different purpose and with a limited payload of about 70 tons. His philosophy was, let's not work by stages [as is usual in spacecraft design], but let's assemble everything and then try it. And at last it will work. There were several attempts and failures with Lunnik [a series of unmanned Soviet moon probes]. Sending man to the moon is too complicated, too complex for such an approach. I think it was doomed from the very beginning.

    — Saswato R. Das, "The Moon Landing through Soviet Eyes: A Q&A with Sergei Khrushchev, son of former premier Nikita Khrushchev: A son of the Cold War tells what it was like from the losing side of the Space Race—and how the U.S.S.R.’s space program fizzled after Sputnik and Gagarin" [2], Scientific American (July 16, 2009)
     

    Of course, Korolev died in January 1966, so it’s hard to say what he would have improvised in the 42 months left before Apollo 11.

  91. @Jack D
    By 1970, von Braun had long outlived his usefulness. The Soviets also made use of German rocket scientists after the war but they milked them for their knowledge and sent them home in '53 and thereafter relied on home grown talent and not aging Nazis to develop their space program. We should have done the same.

    By 1970, von Braun had long outlived his usefulness.

    Maybe not everybody is as casually utilitarian as you are. Anyway your statement is wrong – he still had several good years left in him.

    The Soviets also made use of German rocket scientists after the war but they milked them for their knowledge and sent them home in ’53 and thereafter relied on home grown talent and not aging Nazis to develop their space program. We should have done the same.

    Nazi, schmazi. Von Braun didn’t even join the Party until it was strongly suggested that it would be good for the program (and perhaps – who knows – his health). He wasn’t ideological. Cashiering him was every bit as wrong and stupid as it was to cashier Oppenheimer.

    I might add that with all “home grown talent” the Russians relied on………….they lost.

  92. @Flip
    Maybe we didn't go...

    http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/moondoggie-1/

    Dave McGowan was an idiot. His writing even sound like those of an idiot.

  93. @El Dato
    This is silly. Stop it.

    It would be particularly easy, needless to say, for America to do it again, since we’ve already done all the research and development and testing.
     
    See, this is the kind of quote that immediately outs the author as a rank amateur who doesn't understand how large government-sponsored engineering even works.

    The US couldn't even rebuild the Shuttle now and that has been removed from premises only in 2011.

    Hell, Lawrence Livermore or whomever even forgot how to manufacture FOGBANK material used in fusion bomb triggers.

    It’s impossible to argue with these people. They think their ignorance is some kind of proof: “I don’t understand how something could be done, therefore it could not have been done”.

    They’re pathetic nitwits – best to let it go at that.

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