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Marginal Revolution points to a laudatory review of sainted AIDS activist Larry Kramer’s giant new book, which the publishers are calling a novel but the 79-year-old playwright contends is the genuine history of America, just with a lot more anal sex than in your biased, censored, homophobic textbooks.

Freud got a lot of things wrong, but he sure got right his concept of “projection:”

“Why do they hate us?”

THE AMERICAN PEOPLE:
LARRY KRAMER’S BLISTERING MAGNUM OPUS

by Lawrence D. Mass

… In The American People Kramer tells the story of several generations of Washington Jews, the Masturbovs, stand-ins for his own family, but with extraordinary twists.

… Conversely, it’s implied, had the American people been even somewhat less selfish, arrogant, ridiculous, stupid, bigoted, thieving, lying, hypocritical, marauding, pillaging, plundering, dumb and dumber, hating, hateful, murderous, mass-murderous and evil, one of recorded histories worst global catastrophes, the plague [AIDS], might never have happened as it did. …

In other words, the AIDS epidemic in Greenwich Village, Castro Street, and West Hollywood wasn’t the fault of gay men engaging in industrial scale sodomy in Greenwich Village, Castro Street, and West Hollywood, it was the fault of everybody else everywhere else.

Basically, this is a massive blood libel, but you aren’t supposed to notice that.

Kramer goes much much further, alleging that not only Lincoln but Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Presidents Jackson, Pierce, Buchanan and perhaps other presidents, as well as Lewis and Clarke, de Tocqueville, LaFayette, Burr, John Wilkes Booth, Samuel Clemens, George Custer, Oliver Wendell Holmes, visitors to America such as Sigmund Freud and his alleged lover Wilhelm Fliess, virtually every actor in Hollywood past and present, including one who became president, and so many others, were gay or did it with men at some point.

Of course, everybody else is secretly gay, too, including the most evil man since Hitler, Ronald Reagan:

“Kramer wants to make an even stronger case than in the heyday of ACT UP for Reagan (“Peter Reuster”) being every bit as culpable, as evil, as Hitler.”

Right, Freudian projection. Lots of gay men of Kramer’s age or younger killed men they had sex with. It’s a lot of guilt to have to live with, so they make up bizarre fantasies about it being all the fault of Reagan and other normal Americans. That’s understandable, but that doesn’t mean the rest of us shouldn’t be able to call them out for their hallucinatory rage-filled fantasies.

 
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  1. You do a disservice to human knowledge by referencing Freud, who was about as wrong as a person could be about human psychology.

    You’re making things too complicated with talk about “displacement” and “projection.” I doubt leftists deep down feel guilty for anything. Their delusion is total and they’re just hateful because they are screwed up people and take it out on others.

  2. You call them out if you want to. I’m tired of taking the abuse from those bastards for telling them what I saw with my own eyes.

    Yes, a massive media campaign has pinned the AIDS epidemic on straight white men. All those tens of thousands of dead gay men died because homophobic mobs of straight men chased them down and murdered them.

    Hell, I know what happened. I was right in the middle of it in SF and NYC.

    You want to take the abuse, Steve… go right ahead. These bastards are murderous, insane Nazis.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Hell, I know what happened. I was right in the middle of it in SF and NYC.

    What happened?
    , @Niccolo Salo
    Some time ago, I started researching California of the 60s and 70s since so much weirdness was going on, from the Hippie Culture/Laurel Canyon to Jim Jones' Peoples Temple, the Freeway Murders, etc. and it led me to looking into the early days of HIV in San Francisco.

    Allow me to share a link of material I put together by combing the web about those early days, leaning heavily on an oral history project from Stanford which was a goldmine.

    http://salo-forum.com/index.php?threads/patient-zero-and-the-early-days-of-hiv-aids.3167/

    Think about it this way: 1970s San Francisco had Willie Brown, Harvey Milk was on City Council, Jim Jones was running his temple where he was denouncing the Bible as "fascist, racist, and homophobic" in the name of anti-racism and Marxism, and tens of thousands of walking biohazards giving each other all sorts of venereal diseases culminating in GRIDS/HIV.

    ......and it's this vision of society, 1970s San Francisco, which now dominates media and by extension, political trends.

    You would think that the opposite lessons from that decade in that city would have been learned from what has come to be accepted as the 'correct view' today.

    Do yourself a favour and read the material at the link. Eye-opening does not begin to describe it.

    Speaking of that, I'd be interested in what you saw back then in San Francisco, Thomas.
    , @Joe Magarac

    Basically, this is a massive blood libel, but you aren’t supposed to notice that.
     

    Hell, I know what happened. I was right in the middle of it in SF and NYC.
     
    Me too (well just NYC).

    The massive blood libel in question was pretty much the party line throughout the 1980s, often with the added detail of specifically blaming Reagan.

    Even explicitly over the radio. Remember WBAI?
    , @Percy Gryce

    You want to take the abuse, Steve… go right ahead. These bastards are murderous, insane Nazis.
     
    And this is what we're unleashing into our political culture and models of family life. Open toleration of homosexuality will have very bad effects on our political and personal lives.
  3. @Shouting Thomas
    You call them out if you want to. I'm tired of taking the abuse from those bastards for telling them what I saw with my own eyes.

    Yes, a massive media campaign has pinned the AIDS epidemic on straight white men. All those tens of thousands of dead gay men died because homophobic mobs of straight men chased them down and murdered them.

    Hell, I know what happened. I was right in the middle of it in SF and NYC.

    You want to take the abuse, Steve... go right ahead. These bastards are murderous, insane Nazis.

    Hell, I know what happened. I was right in the middle of it in SF and NYC.

    What happened?

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    Basically a lot of unrestrained promiscuous sex, and when I say promiscuous I mean hundreds of partners a year; I remember a guy I knew bragging about that even while he was dying. And I knew a number of guy who died, as well.

    I don't know the expert chronology but I knew that the fear factor hit in about the spring of 1982. And then I knew a number of guys, and they had regrets, even while they were getting those marks on their faces. But it was too late. And it was very sad.

    I can compare it to two things. One is, homosexuals started coming out the closet en masse in the late '70's. They were de-stigmatized now (at least in SF and NYC) and they could whatever they wanted whenever they wanted. So, they did. And it didn't work out. The other thing I would compare it to were the outbreaks of syphilis pre-Salvarsan. All you had to do was screw up one time, and you were doomed.

    I knew a number of gays being from the Bay Area and in academia. The AIDS epidemic was pretty awful.
    , @marty
    If you want to know what happened, a good place to start is Kramer's own book, "Faggots," about the scene on Fire Island in the late '70's. Just a few pages and you'll get a good feel about how the puritanical forces of moralism viciously obstructed every attempt of the truly sophisticated to tongue the prostate. Or, as my erstwhile co-worker Ken McFarlane once boasted to me, "I had seven last night."
    , @BigGaySteve
    Even after Hurricane Sandy most gays couldn't stay out of the Bathhouses long enough for them to be cleaned up properly leading to a meningitis outbreak in the NYC gay community. Also people with nice cloths who had a weeks warning ended up dumpster diving for food 2 days post storm because they couldn't plan ahead and get a box of Granola in case the lights went out. Nanny Bloomers turning away the national guard didn't help matters either.
  4. @Shouting Thomas
    You call them out if you want to. I'm tired of taking the abuse from those bastards for telling them what I saw with my own eyes.

    Yes, a massive media campaign has pinned the AIDS epidemic on straight white men. All those tens of thousands of dead gay men died because homophobic mobs of straight men chased them down and murdered them.

    Hell, I know what happened. I was right in the middle of it in SF and NYC.

    You want to take the abuse, Steve... go right ahead. These bastards are murderous, insane Nazis.

    Some time ago, I started researching California of the 60s and 70s since so much weirdness was going on, from the Hippie Culture/Laurel Canyon to Jim Jones’ Peoples Temple, the Freeway Murders, etc. and it led me to looking into the early days of HIV in San Francisco.

    Allow me to share a link of material I put together by combing the web about those early days, leaning heavily on an oral history project from Stanford which was a goldmine.

    http://salo-forum.com/index.php?threads/patient-zero-and-the-early-days-of-hiv-aids.3167/

    Think about it this way: 1970s San Francisco had Willie Brown, Harvey Milk was on City Council, Jim Jones was running his temple where he was denouncing the Bible as “fascist, racist, and homophobic” in the name of anti-racism and Marxism, and tens of thousands of walking biohazards giving each other all sorts of venereal diseases culminating in GRIDS/HIV.

    ……and it’s this vision of society, 1970s San Francisco, which now dominates media and by extension, political trends.

    You would think that the opposite lessons from that decade in that city would have been learned from what has come to be accepted as the ‘correct view’ today.

    Do yourself a favour and read the material at the link. Eye-opening does not begin to describe it.

    Speaking of that, I’d be interested in what you saw back then in San Francisco, Thomas.

    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    Speaking of 70s-era California weirdness, don't forget about the Zebra killings. It's amazing that not only has there not been a movie about those mass murders, but I don't even think any of the TV-crime documentary channels have even gone near it. Come on, Bill Curtis, what are you waiting for? LOL
    , @Glaivester
    Grace's Law of the Counterintuitive Response is in play here:

    "...in any society that disdains truth, the reaction to any calamity that threatens its most dearly-held lies is much more of that which engendered the calamity. Only faster and harder."
  5. He’s right about Buchanan, probably right about Lewis and Clark, Booth, Burr, Holmes and Freud.

    And with a name like Pierce…

    • Replies: @e
    My understanding is that Aaron Burr was quite the womanizer.
  6. “The Washington Times, June 29, 1989 (Front page story)
    Homosexual prositution inquiry ensnares VIPs with Reagan, Bush
    ‘Call Boys’ took midnight tour of White House ”

    http://educate-yourself.org/tg/franklincoverupexcerptwashtimesphoto.shtml

    Tom Brokaw’s story on the Reagan White House call boy ring scandal:

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    A paedophile ring has been exposed as having been run with members at the very top of politics (Leon Brittan, Cyril Smith), the civil service and the intelligence community in Britain so I wouldn't be surprised if there was one in the US. The police investigation is on going.

    David Icke appears to have been right about some things.
  7. Lots of gay men of Kramer’s age or younger killed men they had sex with.

    And not just men they had sex with, around 10,000 hemophiliacs contracted AIDS due to a tainted blood supply.

    That homosexual behavior spreads disease at vastly higher rates than heterosexual behavior is still the best secular argument in favor of stigmatizing it, just as we stigmatize smoking and drug use.

    We often hear about how homosexuals can’t choose their sexual identity. But there is a class of people who can choose: bisexuals. And homophobia provides useful guidance and discourages them from dangerous homosexual activity.

    Homophobia saves bisexuals’ lives.

    In a previous thread it was mentioned that there was no good argument against gay marriage. Well, here it is: legalizing gay marriage destigmatizes homosexual behavior, and this will end up killing bisexual men.

    Liberals like to say the most outspoken homophobes have hidden homosexual desires. They joke about this, but what if it’s true? Don’t bisexual men have a very good reason to cultivate their own sense of homophobia, in order to suppress their homosexual desires. Isn’t that a completely rational thing for them to do, to help themselves and their fellow bisexual men from dying of AIDS?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "this will end up killing bisexual men."

    And heterosexual women.

    Heterosexual men in America were never in much danger from AIDS at all, unless they were needle junkies.

    , @Jeremiahjohnbalaya
    "no good argument against gay marriage".

    Of course there is. It's a waste of the state's resources spent enforcing it. Homosexual intercourse does not inevitably lead to children who are more likely to grow up to be law-abiding, tax-paying citizens when raised in a nuclear family. Heterosexual intercourse does, and therefore the state has an interest in the later.
    , @ben tillman

    That homosexual behavior spreads disease at vastly higher rates than heterosexual behavior is still the best secular argument in favor of stigmatizing it....
     
    It doesn't just spread disease; it also changes disease. The increased ease of horizontal transmission results in an increase in virulence. And the constant use of antibiotics and other drugs produces, voilà, drug-resistant strains of pathogens.
    , @fredyetagain aka superhonky
    "And not just men they had sex with, around 10,000 hemophiliacs contracted AIDS due to a tainted blood supply."

    Homosexuals reaping the consequences of their vile behavior never bothered me, but innocents (e.g., hemophiliacs) contracting the disease always really pissed me off. And I seem to recall that some of these really degenerate homosexuals were purposely, knowingly tainting the blood supply, or at least threatening to. What utter scum.

  8. OT: I foolishly went to see “Get Hard” today and it was worse than I expected it to be. Jewish writers; dishonest hypocritical WASP investment bankers (aren’t they all?); one of whom, Ferrell, is finally redeemed by contact with earthy African American gang bangers, who, it is made clear, are far better people than the ignorant, evil (and sexually depraved)–and of course explicitly anti-semetic–white supremacists and WASPS. Basically, the movie is one-long extended let’s-laugh-about-how-whitey-gets-anally-raped-in-prison joke.

    If this review prevents anyone who was as stupid as I was for wasting money on it, then the pain was worth it.

    Good news: Season 2 of Silicon Valley starts tonight.

    • Replies: @WowJustWow

    Good news: Season 2 of Silicon Valley starts tonight.
     
    It had one of the best lines in recent memory, a perfect distillation of the modern progressive techno-utopian ethos: "I don't want to live in a world where somebody else makes the world a better place better than we do."
  9. Even Andrew Jackson publicly called James Buchanan gay (i.e. “aunt fancy pants”). So that one’s probably correct.

  10. @Drake

    Lots of gay men of Kramer’s age or younger killed men they had sex with.
     
    And not just men they had sex with, around 10,000 hemophiliacs contracted AIDS due to a tainted blood supply.

    That homosexual behavior spreads disease at vastly higher rates than heterosexual behavior is still the best secular argument in favor of stigmatizing it, just as we stigmatize smoking and drug use.

    We often hear about how homosexuals can't choose their sexual identity. But there is a class of people who can choose: bisexuals. And homophobia provides useful guidance and discourages them from dangerous homosexual activity.

    Homophobia saves bisexuals' lives.

    In a previous thread it was mentioned that there was no good argument against gay marriage. Well, here it is: legalizing gay marriage destigmatizes homosexual behavior, and this will end up killing bisexual men.

    Liberals like to say the most outspoken homophobes have hidden homosexual desires. They joke about this, but what if it's true? Don't bisexual men have a very good reason to cultivate their own sense of homophobia, in order to suppress their homosexual desires. Isn't that a completely rational thing for them to do, to help themselves and their fellow bisexual men from dying of AIDS?

    “this will end up killing bisexual men.”

    And heterosexual women.

    Heterosexual men in America were never in much danger from AIDS at all, unless they were needle junkies.

    • Replies: @Niccolo Salo
    To be fair to Kramer, one must mention his 1977/78 book "Faggots" which detailed the Fire Island scene. He was very critical about its hedonism and wrote the memorable line "we are fucking each other to death".

    Talk about foreshadowing.
    , @ben tillman

    Heterosexual men in America were never in much danger from AIDS at all, unless they were needle junkies.
     
    In the wake of all its recent lying, I will give credit to Rolling Stone for publishing a Greider article in the late 1980's that explained this point.
    , @Steve Austen
    Heterosexual men in America were never in much danger from AIDS at all, unless they were needle junkies.

    William S Burroughs said that anyone who could afford heroin could afford syringes so there was no excuse for using dirty needles.
  11. Freud could not have been the first person to notice projection. The concept is so simple and obvious that it must have been discovered billions of times in the course of mundane conversations. You don’t have to praise Freud every time you notice projection, Steve.

    • Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist
    Nietzsche's "ressentiment" isn't quite the same thing, but operates from a similar impulse, and I always found it an amusing coinage.
  12. @Niccolo Salo
    Some time ago, I started researching California of the 60s and 70s since so much weirdness was going on, from the Hippie Culture/Laurel Canyon to Jim Jones' Peoples Temple, the Freeway Murders, etc. and it led me to looking into the early days of HIV in San Francisco.

    Allow me to share a link of material I put together by combing the web about those early days, leaning heavily on an oral history project from Stanford which was a goldmine.

    http://salo-forum.com/index.php?threads/patient-zero-and-the-early-days-of-hiv-aids.3167/

    Think about it this way: 1970s San Francisco had Willie Brown, Harvey Milk was on City Council, Jim Jones was running his temple where he was denouncing the Bible as "fascist, racist, and homophobic" in the name of anti-racism and Marxism, and tens of thousands of walking biohazards giving each other all sorts of venereal diseases culminating in GRIDS/HIV.

    ......and it's this vision of society, 1970s San Francisco, which now dominates media and by extension, political trends.

    You would think that the opposite lessons from that decade in that city would have been learned from what has come to be accepted as the 'correct view' today.

    Do yourself a favour and read the material at the link. Eye-opening does not begin to describe it.

    Speaking of that, I'd be interested in what you saw back then in San Francisco, Thomas.

    Speaking of 70s-era California weirdness, don’t forget about the Zebra killings. It’s amazing that not only has there not been a movie about those mass murders, but I don’t even think any of the TV-crime documentary channels have even gone near it. Come on, Bill Curtis, what are you waiting for? LOL

    • Replies: @Niccolo Salo
    Over at my place I joke around with the other guys about my idea for a book based on hitchhiking culture in the USA during the 60s and 70s.

    The reason for this idea is that I kept coming across hitchhiking and the chance encounters that stemmed from (and the awful fallout afterwards) in these events/places that have piqued my interest.

    The clearest example in my mind has to be Dennis Wilson picking up a few of the Manson girls who were hitchhiking along the coast. They then introduced him to Manson...........
  13. I read the entire referenced review, and it was incredible.

    Naturally,when I saw the names of Lincoln and Booth in the gay pantheon I thought it might go this way, and it does:

    While there can’t be any question that Kramer overshoots with so much fire — e.g., Lincoln’s assassination is reinterpreted as a gay love triangle with Booth, gone south,

    The founding premise of the 777 page novel tells the prospective reader all he needs to know:

    In The American People Kramer tells the story of several generations of Washington Jews, the Masturbovs, stand-ins for his own family, but with extraordinary twists.

    Right. I don’t have the time.

  14. “Kramer goes much much further, alleging that not only Lincoln but Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Presidents Jackson, Pierce, Buchanan and perhaps other presidents, as well as Lewis and Clarke, de Tocqueville, LaFayette, Burr, John Wilkes Booth, Samuel Clemens, George Custer, Oliver Wendell Holmes, visitors to America such as Sigmund Freud and his alleged lover Wilhelm Fliess, virtually every actor in Hollywood past and present, including one who became president, and so many others, were gay or did it with men at some point.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yC7HwPh6Es

  15. @anony-mouse
    He's right about Buchanan, probably right about Lewis and Clark, Booth, Burr, Holmes and Freud.

    And with a name like Pierce...

    My understanding is that Aaron Burr was quite the womanizer.

  16. @Anonymous
    Hell, I know what happened. I was right in the middle of it in SF and NYC.

    What happened?

    Basically a lot of unrestrained promiscuous sex, and when I say promiscuous I mean hundreds of partners a year; I remember a guy I knew bragging about that even while he was dying. And I knew a number of guy who died, as well.

    I don’t know the expert chronology but I knew that the fear factor hit in about the spring of 1982. And then I knew a number of guys, and they had regrets, even while they were getting those marks on their faces. But it was too late. And it was very sad.

    I can compare it to two things. One is, homosexuals started coming out the closet en masse in the late ’70’s. They were de-stigmatized now (at least in SF and NYC) and they could whatever they wanted whenever they wanted. So, they did. And it didn’t work out. The other thing I would compare it to were the outbreaks of syphilis pre-Salvarsan. All you had to do was screw up one time, and you were doomed.

    I knew a number of gays being from the Bay Area and in academia. The AIDS epidemic was pretty awful.

    • Replies: @Niccolo Salo
    The thing is that these gays were getting all sorts of venereal diseases in the 1970s, piling one on top of another. HIV did not appear in a vacuum.

    What made it worse was the irresponsible actions of some gay doctors who were into that scene. There's a documentary entitled "Gay Sex in the 70s" with some prominent gay scenesters who managed to survive that era which is a fascinating watch.

    One mentions how gay doctors would administer shots of penicillin to friends just before heading up to Fire Island . Another describes how he went to the doctor's thinking that he had gonorrhea in his throat. The doctor dismissed such a notion until he checked it out and said "yup, you were right. I've never seen this before".

    Recall how the gays prior to HIV would joke about the VD clinic saying "it's where you could go to get a shot and a date."
  17. @Steve Sailer
    "this will end up killing bisexual men."

    And heterosexual women.

    Heterosexual men in America were never in much danger from AIDS at all, unless they were needle junkies.

    To be fair to Kramer, one must mention his 1977/78 book “Faggots” which detailed the Fire Island scene. He was very critical about its hedonism and wrote the memorable line “we are fucking each other to death”.

    Talk about foreshadowing.

  18. @Malcolm X-Lax
    Speaking of 70s-era California weirdness, don't forget about the Zebra killings. It's amazing that not only has there not been a movie about those mass murders, but I don't even think any of the TV-crime documentary channels have even gone near it. Come on, Bill Curtis, what are you waiting for? LOL

    Over at my place I joke around with the other guys about my idea for a book based on hitchhiking culture in the USA during the 60s and 70s.

    The reason for this idea is that I kept coming across hitchhiking and the chance encounters that stemmed from (and the awful fallout afterwards) in these events/places that have piqued my interest.

    The clearest example in my mind has to be Dennis Wilson picking up a few of the Manson girls who were hitchhiking along the coast. They then introduced him to Manson………..

  19. @Malcolm X-Lax
    OT: I foolishly went to see "Get Hard" today and it was worse than I expected it to be. Jewish writers; dishonest hypocritical WASP investment bankers (aren't they all?); one of whom, Ferrell, is finally redeemed by contact with earthy African American gang bangers, who, it is made clear, are far better people than the ignorant, evil (and sexually depraved)--and of course explicitly anti-semetic--white supremacists and WASPS. Basically, the movie is one-long extended let's-laugh-about-how-whitey-gets-anally-raped-in-prison joke.

    If this review prevents anyone who was as stupid as I was for wasting money on it, then the pain was worth it.

    Good news: Season 2 of Silicon Valley starts tonight.

    Good news: Season 2 of Silicon Valley starts tonight.

    It had one of the best lines in recent memory, a perfect distillation of the modern progressive techno-utopian ethos: “I don’t want to live in a world where somebody else makes the world a better place better than we do.”

    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    So, so true. If only Judge could work in the phrase "moral status mongering."
  20. e says:

    A look at the CDC website tells you just how much of its resources must be going to HIV—A LOT.

    It also shows that gay men haven’t changed since the plague arrived. All that has really changed is they don’t see it HIV as a death sentence. The main stream media ignore the stats below. They also ignore the prevalence of hepatitis and syphilis in the gay community and the problem of syphilis becoming a super bug because it’s grown so resistant to antibiotics. And why is that? Because the gay community ate them like candy.
    __________________________________________________________________

    from http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/CDC-MSM-508.pdf

    A Snapshot

    Overall, MSM — including those who inject drugs — account for more than half of the 1.2 million people living with HIV in the United States (59%, or an estimated 712,500 persons) and approximately two-thirds of all new HIV infections each year.
    (66%, or an estimated 31,400 infections).

    Comparing 2008 to 2010, there was a 12 percent increase in the number of new infections among MSM. Among the youngest MSM — those aged 13 – 24 — new infections increased 22 percent, from 7,200 infections in 2008 to 8,800 in 2010.

    While CDC estimates that only 4 percent of men in the United States are MSM, the rate of new HIV diagnoses among MSM in the United States is more than 44 times that of other men (range: 522 – 989 per 100,000 MSM vs. 12 per 100,000 other men).

    White MSM continue to represent the largest number of new HIV infections among MSM (11,200), followed closely by black
    MSM (10,600) and Hispanic MSM (6,700).

    ____________________________

    more at http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/CDC-MSM-508.pdf

  21. Kramer may be in his crazy old man phase, but he rather bravely took on the gay establishment of the late 70s-early 80s when he founded the Gay Mens’ Health Crisis and tried to get the bathhouses shut down. It’s amazing that he outlived so many of his enemies.

  22. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    …hallucinatory rage-filled fantasies.

    Increasingly this describes Hillary Clinton. She has entered a nut case lesbian phase (which she suppressed in the old days, but is now coming to the fore).

    Her infamous “We came, we saw, he died!” interview (re Kaddafi) is a landmark of international lesbian psycho diplomacy.

    Delusion caused her to announce today for POTUS instead bowing out gracefully. This woman recently had severe head trauma and was out of the public eye for months last year!

  23. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Those people sure snookered everyone by getting people paranoid about AIDS, making them think anyone could get it anywhere, anytime. They got billions in research and treatment money allocated for AIDS, money that could have been better spent on other diseases. They also got everyone in Hollywood and many others wearing those lapel pins. AIDS for the most part was self-inflicted and is a preventable disease. Oh, and thanks for killing all those hemophiliacs

    • Replies: @JSM
    "Oh, and thanks for killing all those hemophiliacs"

    And straight oldsters needing blood transfusions during heart surgery, like Isaac Asimov.

    So, yeah, thanks, gays, also, for killing one of America's National Treasures.
  24. @SPMoore8
    Basically a lot of unrestrained promiscuous sex, and when I say promiscuous I mean hundreds of partners a year; I remember a guy I knew bragging about that even while he was dying. And I knew a number of guy who died, as well.

    I don't know the expert chronology but I knew that the fear factor hit in about the spring of 1982. And then I knew a number of guys, and they had regrets, even while they were getting those marks on their faces. But it was too late. And it was very sad.

    I can compare it to two things. One is, homosexuals started coming out the closet en masse in the late '70's. They were de-stigmatized now (at least in SF and NYC) and they could whatever they wanted whenever they wanted. So, they did. And it didn't work out. The other thing I would compare it to were the outbreaks of syphilis pre-Salvarsan. All you had to do was screw up one time, and you were doomed.

    I knew a number of gays being from the Bay Area and in academia. The AIDS epidemic was pretty awful.

    The thing is that these gays were getting all sorts of venereal diseases in the 1970s, piling one on top of another. HIV did not appear in a vacuum.

    What made it worse was the irresponsible actions of some gay doctors who were into that scene. There’s a documentary entitled “Gay Sex in the 70s” with some prominent gay scenesters who managed to survive that era which is a fascinating watch.

    One mentions how gay doctors would administer shots of penicillin to friends just before heading up to Fire Island . Another describes how he went to the doctor’s thinking that he had gonorrhea in his throat. The doctor dismissed such a notion until he checked it out and said “yup, you were right. I’ve never seen this before”.

    Recall how the gays prior to HIV would joke about the VD clinic saying “it’s where you could go to get a shot and a date.”

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    I'm not trying to excuse it; and you are right, even in the late '60's it was well known that homosexuals were more likely to have things like hepatitis. I mean, I remember gay guys getting very ill and even terminal as early as the late '70's, and then how frightened they were about the emerging illness as early as Spring '82. And this was even before it was called AIDS. And then it got progressively worse.

    However, another poster was right to point out that there is still a problem with promiscuity and disease transfer among homosexuals. I recently read about the syphilis epidemic in New York, for example. Again, I knew a lot of gays back in the day but I've never been able to really understand the lifestyle.
  25. @Niccolo Salo
    The thing is that these gays were getting all sorts of venereal diseases in the 1970s, piling one on top of another. HIV did not appear in a vacuum.

    What made it worse was the irresponsible actions of some gay doctors who were into that scene. There's a documentary entitled "Gay Sex in the 70s" with some prominent gay scenesters who managed to survive that era which is a fascinating watch.

    One mentions how gay doctors would administer shots of penicillin to friends just before heading up to Fire Island . Another describes how he went to the doctor's thinking that he had gonorrhea in his throat. The doctor dismissed such a notion until he checked it out and said "yup, you were right. I've never seen this before".

    Recall how the gays prior to HIV would joke about the VD clinic saying "it's where you could go to get a shot and a date."

    I’m not trying to excuse it; and you are right, even in the late ’60’s it was well known that homosexuals were more likely to have things like hepatitis. I mean, I remember gay guys getting very ill and even terminal as early as the late ’70’s, and then how frightened they were about the emerging illness as early as Spring ’82. And this was even before it was called AIDS. And then it got progressively worse.

    However, another poster was right to point out that there is still a problem with promiscuity and disease transfer among homosexuals. I recently read about the syphilis epidemic in New York, for example. Again, I knew a lot of gays back in the day but I’ve never been able to really understand the lifestyle.

    • Replies: @Niccolo Salo
    In the book "And the Band Played On" detailing the early days of HIV up until 1985 or so, the author explains how gays in places like San Fran, LA, and NYC started getting sick around 1976 with all sorts of weird ailments. He asked his gay friends "when do you remember everyone being healthy and no one being sick?"

    As for the GRIDS era, it was brought to the attention of gays in the Castro District of San Francisco publicly by way of a fellow named Bobbi Campbell who took the Samizdat route in 1981 when he took pictures of the Kaposi's Sarcoma lesions on his feet (and in his mouth, IIRC), photocopied them, and taped it to the windows outside of a local pharmacy with the words "WATCH OUT - SOMETHING IS OUT THERE" in bold lettering emblazoned atop the display. This pharmacy was one of many where gays would pick up their prescriptions for their various diseases, besides other things.

    1981 was when they started hearing about this. 1983 was when the avalanche really picked up speed.
  26. advancedatheist [AKA "RedneckCryonicist"] says:

    The blogger “agnostic” at akinokure.blogspot.com characterizes male homosexuality as arrested cognitive development in boyhood, around the “girls have cooties” stage. People mistake the neotenous behavior of gay men as “effeminate” because normal adult women display more childlike characteristics than normal adult men. But gay men don’t show any female nurturing behavior. Instead they behave like Peter Pan who went through puberty physically but not cognitively, and he wants to stick his penis into other males for sexual release because the female body disgusts him.

    Gays’ obsessive-compulsiveness under the influence of male hormones also resembles the behavior of addicts, and that probably reflects boyish characteristics as well. Boys get hyper just from drinking caffeinated beverages, so imagine what they would do if they had access to the kinds of party drugs many gay men ingest.

    You really have to feel sorry for these damaged men. Straight men can certainly have troubled relationships with women – male sexuality has a tragic component that few people want to talk about outside of the Manosphere blogs. But at least the exercise of learning how to deal with women effectively can help men to function better socially and emotionally. Gay men by contrast remain cut off from this important area of personal growth, and they suffer from diminished lives as a result.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Pre-puberty, I was obsessed with drawing pictures of and building models of warplanes, warships, drag racing cars, rocket ships, and guns. I was also obsessed with throwing balls and hitting them with sticks.
    , @Steve Sailer
    Regarding agnostic's theory: Let's use me as an average heterosexual male as a test case. Pre-puberty, I was obsessed with drawing pictures of and building models of warplanes, warships, drag racing cars, rocket ships, fighting robots, and guns. I was also obsessed with throwing balls and hitting them with sticks. I demanded from my parents for Christmas a BB gun, an archery set, and a Swiss Army knife.

    None of this seems to have much to do at all with conventional gay male lifestyles, which have more to do with my wife's pre-pubescent obsessions, like dressing up and doing her hair.

    , @marty
    If you want to know what happened, a good place to start is Kramer's own book, "Faggots," about the scene on Fire Island in the late '70's. Just a few pages and you'll get a good feel about how the puritanical forces of moralism viciously obstructed every attempt of the truly sophisticated to tongue the prostate. Or, as my erstwhile co-worker Ken McFarlane once boasted to me, "I had seven last night."
  27. @WowJustWow

    Good news: Season 2 of Silicon Valley starts tonight.
     
    It had one of the best lines in recent memory, a perfect distillation of the modern progressive techno-utopian ethos: "I don't want to live in a world where somebody else makes the world a better place better than we do."

    So, so true. If only Judge could work in the phrase “moral status mongering.”

  28. . . . virtually every actor in Hollywood past and present, including one who became president, and so many others, were gay or did it with men at some point.

    Old news. Back in the 1970s, Charles Bronson, Lee Marvin, and Clint Eastwood of the Hollywood Gay Alliance revealed this on the National Lampoon Radio Hour:

    • Replies: @Scotty G. Vito
    Marvin was a fairly down-the-line Hollywood lib IIRC (of course, 1960s Kennedy Democrat still being a far cry from the current incarnation). He even described himself as pro-gay in interviews though I suspect this was more from a natural contrarianism than understanding what it meant.
  29. @advancedatheist
    The blogger "agnostic" at akinokure.blogspot.com characterizes male homosexuality as arrested cognitive development in boyhood, around the "girls have cooties" stage. People mistake the neotenous behavior of gay men as "effeminate" because normal adult women display more childlike characteristics than normal adult men. But gay men don't show any female nurturing behavior. Instead they behave like Peter Pan who went through puberty physically but not cognitively, and he wants to stick his penis into other males for sexual release because the female body disgusts him.

    Gays' obsessive-compulsiveness under the influence of male hormones also resembles the behavior of addicts, and that probably reflects boyish characteristics as well. Boys get hyper just from drinking caffeinated beverages, so imagine what they would do if they had access to the kinds of party drugs many gay men ingest.

    You really have to feel sorry for these damaged men. Straight men can certainly have troubled relationships with women - male sexuality has a tragic component that few people want to talk about outside of the Manosphere blogs. But at least the exercise of learning how to deal with women effectively can help men to function better socially and emotionally. Gay men by contrast remain cut off from this important area of personal growth, and they suffer from diminished lives as a result.

    Pre-puberty, I was obsessed with drawing pictures of and building models of warplanes, warships, drag racing cars, rocket ships, and guns. I was also obsessed with throwing balls and hitting them with sticks.

    • Replies: @donut
    Do you remember Ed "Big Daddy" Roth ? 8th grade in a Houston suburb the kid who lived behind me was a scary misfit , he brought a gun to school one day , nothing happened , someone told and admin. got it from him . I don't think he even got suspended , that was 1962 I think . Once in class I was sitting behind him ; his notebook was page after page of his drawings of torture and mutilated bodies . Still gives me the willies . A brief whiff of hell .

    All the self-dramatizing fags loved AIDS ; they were the center of attention and all the breathless drama . I had to deal with some of them in Psyche , It was surprising how many of them would go out of their way to put themselves at risk because they felt left out , like it conferred some kind of status . A buttf**k badge of honor . Later in NYC most of the AIDS pts. I had to deal with were non-compliant IVDAers living in SROs . I remember one in particular , a Puerto Rican addict with HIV-associated peripheral sensory neuropathy wasting away in a wheel chair , trading his Meals On Wheels food for money to cop . Living in a bare room in an SRO , a single wadded up sheet on his bare mattress , a cheap chest of drawers with nothing in them and a snapshot of his two daughters . He was the very picture of terrified hopeless desperation not even bothering to look over his shoulder , death breathing down his back . Oddly I had more sympathy for the addicts than for the homos , prolly a case of "there but for the grace of God ...
  30. @Drake

    Lots of gay men of Kramer’s age or younger killed men they had sex with.
     
    And not just men they had sex with, around 10,000 hemophiliacs contracted AIDS due to a tainted blood supply.

    That homosexual behavior spreads disease at vastly higher rates than heterosexual behavior is still the best secular argument in favor of stigmatizing it, just as we stigmatize smoking and drug use.

    We often hear about how homosexuals can't choose their sexual identity. But there is a class of people who can choose: bisexuals. And homophobia provides useful guidance and discourages them from dangerous homosexual activity.

    Homophobia saves bisexuals' lives.

    In a previous thread it was mentioned that there was no good argument against gay marriage. Well, here it is: legalizing gay marriage destigmatizes homosexual behavior, and this will end up killing bisexual men.

    Liberals like to say the most outspoken homophobes have hidden homosexual desires. They joke about this, but what if it's true? Don't bisexual men have a very good reason to cultivate their own sense of homophobia, in order to suppress their homosexual desires. Isn't that a completely rational thing for them to do, to help themselves and their fellow bisexual men from dying of AIDS?

    “no good argument against gay marriage”.

    Of course there is. It’s a waste of the state’s resources spent enforcing it. Homosexual intercourse does not inevitably lead to children who are more likely to grow up to be law-abiding, tax-paying citizens when raised in a nuclear family. Heterosexual intercourse does, and therefore the state has an interest in the later.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    1) This idea that homosexuals don't have kids is wrong. From anecdotal experience, it doesn't seem uncommon for lesbian couples to have kids using a gay male friend's donated sperm.

    2) Heterosexual intercourse doesn't just lead to law-abiding, tax-paying citizens, but also law-breaking, tax-consuming citizens.
  31. @advancedatheist
    The blogger "agnostic" at akinokure.blogspot.com characterizes male homosexuality as arrested cognitive development in boyhood, around the "girls have cooties" stage. People mistake the neotenous behavior of gay men as "effeminate" because normal adult women display more childlike characteristics than normal adult men. But gay men don't show any female nurturing behavior. Instead they behave like Peter Pan who went through puberty physically but not cognitively, and he wants to stick his penis into other males for sexual release because the female body disgusts him.

    Gays' obsessive-compulsiveness under the influence of male hormones also resembles the behavior of addicts, and that probably reflects boyish characteristics as well. Boys get hyper just from drinking caffeinated beverages, so imagine what they would do if they had access to the kinds of party drugs many gay men ingest.

    You really have to feel sorry for these damaged men. Straight men can certainly have troubled relationships with women - male sexuality has a tragic component that few people want to talk about outside of the Manosphere blogs. But at least the exercise of learning how to deal with women effectively can help men to function better socially and emotionally. Gay men by contrast remain cut off from this important area of personal growth, and they suffer from diminished lives as a result.

    Regarding agnostic’s theory: Let’s use me as an average heterosexual male as a test case. Pre-puberty, I was obsessed with drawing pictures of and building models of warplanes, warships, drag racing cars, rocket ships, fighting robots, and guns. I was also obsessed with throwing balls and hitting them with sticks. I demanded from my parents for Christmas a BB gun, an archery set, and a Swiss Army knife.

    None of this seems to have much to do at all with conventional gay male lifestyles, which have more to do with my wife’s pre-pubescent obsessions, like dressing up and doing her hair.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Pre-puberty, I was obsessed with drawing pictures of and building models of warplanes, warships, drag racing cars, rocket ships, fighting robots, and guns. I was also obsessed with throwing balls and hitting them with sticks. I demanded from my parents for Christmas a BB gun, an archery set, and a Swiss Army knife.
     
    When I was growing up, I thought all young boyhood obsessions could be summed up thusly: Kung Fu movies and Westerns.

    When I met a homosexual man for the first time, I thought he was "playing a girl" in jest. And then when I realized he wasn't, I thought he was deranged, like a dog with rabies or something. Ooops. I guess I was raised by pretty retrograde parents.

    By the way, this is somewhat related to the topic, but it seems that the Mormons are yet again displaying their talent in bending to the dictates of the mainstream mores: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/gay-rights-religious-rights-and-a-compromise-in-an-unlikely-place-utah/2015/04/12/39278b12-ded8-11e4-a500-1c5bb1d8ff6a_story.html

    Here's to the Catholic Church for never altering its moral doctrines. And here's to enduring and universal truths!

    , @Chrisnonymous

    Let’s use me as an average heterosexual male as a test case.
     
    Steve, if American history has taught us anything...

    I went looking for the info about Washington and found this comment on a blog...

    There is nothing wrong with Washingtons homosexual orientation. Most of the founding fathers fled Europe because they were gay or pedophile
     
    Ha!
    , @Sailer has an interesting life
    If this is the same guy who thinks that a famous Hollywood actress is a MtF transsexual and that there's no need for people to have computers with large screens, then he's an idiot. I file him under "accurate as a stopped clock".
  32. @SPMoore8
    I'm not trying to excuse it; and you are right, even in the late '60's it was well known that homosexuals were more likely to have things like hepatitis. I mean, I remember gay guys getting very ill and even terminal as early as the late '70's, and then how frightened they were about the emerging illness as early as Spring '82. And this was even before it was called AIDS. And then it got progressively worse.

    However, another poster was right to point out that there is still a problem with promiscuity and disease transfer among homosexuals. I recently read about the syphilis epidemic in New York, for example. Again, I knew a lot of gays back in the day but I've never been able to really understand the lifestyle.

    In the book “And the Band Played On” detailing the early days of HIV up until 1985 or so, the author explains how gays in places like San Fran, LA, and NYC started getting sick around 1976 with all sorts of weird ailments. He asked his gay friends “when do you remember everyone being healthy and no one being sick?”

    As for the GRIDS era, it was brought to the attention of gays in the Castro District of San Francisco publicly by way of a fellow named Bobbi Campbell who took the Samizdat route in 1981 when he took pictures of the Kaposi’s Sarcoma lesions on his feet (and in his mouth, IIRC), photocopied them, and taped it to the windows outside of a local pharmacy with the words “WATCH OUT – SOMETHING IS OUT THERE” in bold lettering emblazoned atop the display. This pharmacy was one of many where gays would pick up their prescriptions for their various diseases, besides other things.

    1981 was when they started hearing about this. 1983 was when the avalanche really picked up speed.

    • Replies: @unit472
    In June, 1982 I took my new video camera and small suitcase sized recorder on the Larkspur ferry over to San Francisco to tape the Gay Pride Parade. I even had a working title for my project, AIDS: Prelude to Holocaust! As I headed up Market St. I noticed how gaunt many of the gay men were. I saw one vomit on the sidewalk. It was a different scene from that of just a few years before when some friends had prevailed upon me to go with them to Busby's on Polk St which preceded Castro St. as the center of 'gay life' in San Francisco but quickly became too drug infested and depraved even for most homosexual men thus they decamped to the Castro. I realized as I watched the gays assembling for their march up Market St. that I was looking at something not so different than passengers boarding the Titanic. They were dressed in outlandish attire and trying to put a brave face on the situation but there was fear in the air and after I videoed the gay man vomiting and the puddle he left on the sidewalk I realized I had better get the hell out of there. No one knew how AIDS was being transmitted only that gay men were coming down with it and once they got sick they did not get better.
  33. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factor"] says:

    Chutzpah and poopshootzpah rolled in one.

    Too much.

    If only the damn wasps had let the Jews play golf.

  34. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factor"] says:

    “the plague [AIDS], might never have happened as it did. …”

    Funny… but ever since got more fruity since the Clinton yrs, US has gotten more greedy, corrupt, arrogant, trashy, porny, war-mongering, deceitful, and disgusting.

  35. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factor"] says:

    “Kramer goes much much further, alleging that not only Lincoln but Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Presidents Jackson, Pierce, Buchanan and perhaps other presidents, as well as Lewis and Clarke, de Tocqueville, LaFayette, Burr, John Wilkes Booth, Samuel Clemens, George Custer, Oliver Wendell Holmes, visitors to America such as Sigmund Freud and his alleged lover Wilhelm Fliess, virtually every actor in Hollywood past and present, including one who became president, and so many others, were gay or did it with men at some point.”

    Okay, time to blame the homos for slavery, genocide, wars, and everything under the sun.

    How about MLK?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Malcolm Little's gayness is fairly outlined in Bruce Perry's biography. He raped a retarded white boy in Michigan and became a homosexual prostitute in NYC and Boston. He went to prison for burglarizing the home of one of his clients (William Paul Lennon) and thought that Lennon (from a prominent family) wouldn't report it out of embarrassment. The daring "tough guy" criminal career claimed in Mr. Little's "autobiography" is, like most key elements of this "biography", mostly fiction (e.g. Mr. Little's other burglarly/theft conviction was for stealing from an older sister who took him in out of pity). He was never a dashing bandit, just a sniveling little sneak.
  36. Kramer’s always been a high-strung nut but he did some courageous things in the early AIDS days, and his novel “Faggots” was an honest depiction of how crazy (and unsanitary) urban gay behavior could get in the ’70s.

    FWIW, I was around Manhattan’s West Village a bit in the late ’70s and early ’80s. I wrote about what it was like to be there in this blogposting.

  37. @Steve Sailer
    Pre-puberty, I was obsessed with drawing pictures of and building models of warplanes, warships, drag racing cars, rocket ships, and guns. I was also obsessed with throwing balls and hitting them with sticks.

    Do you remember Ed “Big Daddy” Roth ? 8th grade in a Houston suburb the kid who lived behind me was a scary misfit , he brought a gun to school one day , nothing happened , someone told and admin. got it from him . I don’t think he even got suspended , that was 1962 I think . Once in class I was sitting behind him ; his notebook was page after page of his drawings of torture and mutilated bodies . Still gives me the willies . A brief whiff of hell .

    All the self-dramatizing fags loved AIDS ; they were the center of attention and all the breathless drama . I had to deal with some of them in Psyche , It was surprising how many of them would go out of their way to put themselves at risk because they felt left out , like it conferred some kind of status . A buttf**k badge of honor . Later in NYC most of the AIDS pts. I had to deal with were non-compliant IVDAers living in SROs . I remember one in particular , a Puerto Rican addict with HIV-associated peripheral sensory neuropathy wasting away in a wheel chair , trading his Meals On Wheels food for money to cop . Living in a bare room in an SRO , a single wadded up sheet on his bare mattress , a cheap chest of drawers with nothing in them and a snapshot of his two daughters . He was the very picture of terrified hopeless desperation not even bothering to look over his shoulder , death breathing down his back . Oddly I had more sympathy for the addicts than for the homos , prolly a case of “there but for the grace of God …

  38. @Steve Sailer
    Regarding agnostic's theory: Let's use me as an average heterosexual male as a test case. Pre-puberty, I was obsessed with drawing pictures of and building models of warplanes, warships, drag racing cars, rocket ships, fighting robots, and guns. I was also obsessed with throwing balls and hitting them with sticks. I demanded from my parents for Christmas a BB gun, an archery set, and a Swiss Army knife.

    None of this seems to have much to do at all with conventional gay male lifestyles, which have more to do with my wife's pre-pubescent obsessions, like dressing up and doing her hair.

    Pre-puberty, I was obsessed with drawing pictures of and building models of warplanes, warships, drag racing cars, rocket ships, fighting robots, and guns. I was also obsessed with throwing balls and hitting them with sticks. I demanded from my parents for Christmas a BB gun, an archery set, and a Swiss Army knife.

    When I was growing up, I thought all young boyhood obsessions could be summed up thusly: Kung Fu movies and Westerns.

    When I met a homosexual man for the first time, I thought he was “playing a girl” in jest. And then when I realized he wasn’t, I thought he was deranged, like a dog with rabies or something. Ooops. I guess I was raised by pretty retrograde parents.

    By the way, this is somewhat related to the topic, but it seems that the Mormons are yet again displaying their talent in bending to the dictates of the mainstream mores: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/gay-rights-religious-rights-and-a-compromise-in-an-unlikely-place-utah/2015/04/12/39278b12-ded8-11e4-a500-1c5bb1d8ff6a_story.html

    Here’s to the Catholic Church for never altering its moral doctrines. And here’s to enduring and universal truths!

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

    By the way, this is somewhat related to the topic, but it seems that the Mormons are yet again displaying their talent in bending to the dictates of the mainstream mores:
     
    Mormons have a pragmatic business oriented views on a number of issues involving those outside of their community. Want to have a ski vacation in Utah and then have some alcoholic drinks in the evenings? No problem use to be you had to pay a one time at the door "social club membership fee" before getting a drink.

    The Mormons attitude is ok you can be gay, just leave us Mormons they hell out of it.

    As a Hoosier, I think Indiana could learn a think from Utah's Freedom of Association oriented , Live and Let Live old west cultural libertarianism.
  39. sometimes an AIDS-infected cigar is just a cigar….

  40. Had AIDS contact tracing and notification been done the death rate from HIV would have been dramatically lower. The public health method worked well with syphilis in decades past. However, politics intruded. Everything was anonymous. One had to rely on the honesty of a contact that one may have been exposed. Bath house culture was, of course, impossible because no one bothered with names, just dick size.

    The gay lobby did much to impair medical research as well when men lied to enter to or three pilot studies so as to get the one that worked or to get more medication. Blame was projected everywhere except where it belonged. We are seeing an uptick of syphilis cases in gay enclaves. That is a marker of unprotected sex. After all these decades of safe-sex preaching and treaching they don’t get it. Well, they do get it but not in quite that way.

    Whining and projecting is much more satisfying than taking responsibility for one’s action.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Male homosexuals commonly have a personal history which is madcap and HIV has a very long incubation period. Contact tracing was never going to be practicable, because the vast majority of patients realizing they were ill would have a list with dozens of names on it (or dozens of asterisks of people whose first name they'd long forgotten and whose surname they never knew). It is true that the Health Department in New York City offered specious excuses for not closing the bathhouses therein. If Mayor Koch can be faulted, it's in not replacing his health commissioner with a non-fool.
  41. the “Masturbovs”? Were Felchman and Schtupiro taken?

  42. The only known homosexual boy in my class was writing and putting on plays by the age of 7. He couldn’t throw and would deliberately injure himself to avoid school sports days. He told me years later, that our hyper-masculine gym coach, had taken him aside and told him not to worry about doing sports because one day he was going be a successful writer…and now he is.

  43. In this interview, JMLP (likely not Gay) is revealed to be strikingly lucid at age 86:
    http://www.counter-currents.com/2015/04/jean-marie-le-pens-rivarol-interview/

  44. @anon
    Freud could not have been the first person to notice projection. The concept is so simple and obvious that it must have been discovered billions of times in the course of mundane conversations. You don't have to praise Freud every time you notice projection, Steve.

    Nietzsche’s “ressentiment” isn’t quite the same thing, but operates from a similar impulse, and I always found it an amusing coinage.

  45. The US Federal budget for HIV/AIDS is 30.4 billion dollars and rising

    This does not include State, Local and mandated insurance costs

    http://kff.org/global-health-policy/fact-sheet/u-s-federal-funding-for-hivaids-the-presidents-fy-2015-budget-request/

  46. @Drake

    Lots of gay men of Kramer’s age or younger killed men they had sex with.
     
    And not just men they had sex with, around 10,000 hemophiliacs contracted AIDS due to a tainted blood supply.

    That homosexual behavior spreads disease at vastly higher rates than heterosexual behavior is still the best secular argument in favor of stigmatizing it, just as we stigmatize smoking and drug use.

    We often hear about how homosexuals can't choose their sexual identity. But there is a class of people who can choose: bisexuals. And homophobia provides useful guidance and discourages them from dangerous homosexual activity.

    Homophobia saves bisexuals' lives.

    In a previous thread it was mentioned that there was no good argument against gay marriage. Well, here it is: legalizing gay marriage destigmatizes homosexual behavior, and this will end up killing bisexual men.

    Liberals like to say the most outspoken homophobes have hidden homosexual desires. They joke about this, but what if it's true? Don't bisexual men have a very good reason to cultivate their own sense of homophobia, in order to suppress their homosexual desires. Isn't that a completely rational thing for them to do, to help themselves and their fellow bisexual men from dying of AIDS?

    That homosexual behavior spreads disease at vastly higher rates than heterosexual behavior is still the best secular argument in favor of stigmatizing it….

    It doesn’t just spread disease; it also changes disease. The increased ease of horizontal transmission results in an increase in virulence. And the constant use of antibiotics and other drugs produces, voilà, drug-resistant strains of pathogens.

  47. @Steve Sailer
    "this will end up killing bisexual men."

    And heterosexual women.

    Heterosexual men in America were never in much danger from AIDS at all, unless they were needle junkies.

    Heterosexual men in America were never in much danger from AIDS at all, unless they were needle junkies.

    In the wake of all its recent lying, I will give credit to Rolling Stone for publishing a Greider article in the late 1980’s that explained this point.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

    In the wake of all its recent lying, I will give credit to Rolling Stone for publishing a Greider article in the late 1980′s that explained this point.
     
    Bullsh*t!!!!

    If Rolling Stone had any decency it would lead the Cultural Marxist Media in publishing a long over due public apology to Michael "The Myth of Heterosexual Aids" Fumento. It might be a good first step in regaining its credibility after Sabrina Rubin Erdely has wiped her ass with it.

    It is really sad that one of the best contrarian investigative journalists of the last 30 years is unemployed(unemployable?) and living in Columbia.

    Go visit Fumento's website. The guy has an amazing body of work.
  48. All the self-dramatizing fags loved AIDS ; they were the center of attention and all the breathless drama.

    I think nothing wounds young gays more than the fact that once a teenage heterosexual male has reached some level of comfort with his own sexual identity, lets say touched a girl above the waist and beyond, the straight male spends shocking very little time in the rest of his life thinking about them(gays). For the vast the majority of hetero males the adolescent teasing about “what’s gay” stops once they are the least bit sexual active themselves.

    Gays create this incredibly psychologically unhealthy fantasy world where lots of famous straight men have experienced gay sex and are bisexual or secretly gay themselves. Truth is most gays are limited in their physical and emotional attraction to fellow stereotypically homosexual looking or acting men. So instead gays dream that the straight males of their youth might have actually fancied them once. It is like very lonely and depressed, and yes typically “beta”, males spending endless fruitless hours mulling over in their minds that a woman who has long rejected them but perhaps mildly flirted with them once, might just in the back of her mind, years later, occasionally spend a second or two regretting her decision.

    What I find shocking is that a Larry Kramer gets positive reviews for revealing this really immature and unhealthy way of thinking. A caring straight male who has a hetero friend still obsessing over a long past flame, would recommend them seek therapy so they can move on.

    But what on earth can one honestly say to the likes of a gay octogenarian Larry Kramer????

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Actually, what was depressing was Tyler Cowan offering kudos to Lawrence Mass' favorable review. Mass' has no critical distance from the subject and said nutty things in the review, but a libertarian academic is so socialized into the dominant tastes among academics that he hardly notices.
  49. Agreed, there’s something really off about homos, which is an understatement. However, what then is wrong with most women who, as many can observe, just adore male homos and can’t get enough of them?

    • Replies: @AnAnon
    the pickup artists claim that gays are better able to "flip the script" on women since they tend to think more like women themselves and that women eat that up.
  50. @anonymous
    Those people sure snookered everyone by getting people paranoid about AIDS, making them think anyone could get it anywhere, anytime. They got billions in research and treatment money allocated for AIDS, money that could have been better spent on other diseases. They also got everyone in Hollywood and many others wearing those lapel pins. AIDS for the most part was self-inflicted and is a preventable disease. Oh, and thanks for killing all those hemophiliacs

    “Oh, and thanks for killing all those hemophiliacs”

    And straight oldsters needing blood transfusions during heart surgery, like Isaac Asimov.

    So, yeah, thanks, gays, also, for killing one of America’s National Treasures.

    • Replies: @Steve Austen
    Arthur Ashe as well.
    , @Glaivester
    Isaac Asimov was very much in favor of gay rights, and supported homosexuality on population control grounds.

    So perhaps he can be thought of as we might a non-smoking advocate of smokers' rights who dies from lung cancer from second-hand smoke.

    In short, I don't consider Asimov an innocent victim.
    , @TP
    Also my grandmother, who broke her hip in a supermarket and died of AIDS following a tainted blood transfusion.
  51. @anonymous-antimarxist

    All the self-dramatizing fags loved AIDS ; they were the center of attention and all the breathless drama.
     
    I think nothing wounds young gays more than the fact that once a teenage heterosexual male has reached some level of comfort with his own sexual identity, lets say touched a girl above the waist and beyond, the straight male spends shocking very little time in the rest of his life thinking about them(gays). For the vast the majority of hetero males the adolescent teasing about "what's gay" stops once they are the least bit sexual active themselves.

    Gays create this incredibly psychologically unhealthy fantasy world where lots of famous straight men have experienced gay sex and are bisexual or secretly gay themselves. Truth is most gays are limited in their physical and emotional attraction to fellow stereotypically homosexual looking or acting men. So instead gays dream that the straight males of their youth might have actually fancied them once. It is like very lonely and depressed, and yes typically "beta", males spending endless fruitless hours mulling over in their minds that a woman who has long rejected them but perhaps mildly flirted with them once, might just in the back of her mind, years later, occasionally spend a second or two regretting her decision.

    What I find shocking is that a Larry Kramer gets positive reviews for revealing this really immature and unhealthy way of thinking. A caring straight male who has a hetero friend still obsessing over a long past flame, would recommend them seek therapy so they can move on.

    But what on earth can one honestly say to the likes of a gay octogenarian Larry Kramer????

    Actually, what was depressing was Tyler Cowan offering kudos to Lawrence Mass’ favorable review. Mass’ has no critical distance from the subject and said nutty things in the review, but a libertarian academic is so socialized into the dominant tastes among academics that he hardly notices.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    From every head slappingly goofy Tyler Cowen article that Steve Sailer has ever commented on, Cowen comes across as a silly nebbish jewish uber libertarian who most likely had his first sexual experience alone in rapture reading Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead.

    Still no matter how clueless and straight, that Cowen could for one moment take the even more ridiculous gay Larry Kramer serious is more an expression of vicious Jewish ethnocentrism against the straight goyim than any thing else.

    Blood Libel indeed!!!
  52. @Mark Flag
    Had AIDS contact tracing and notification been done the death rate from HIV would have been dramatically lower. The public health method worked well with syphilis in decades past. However, politics intruded. Everything was anonymous. One had to rely on the honesty of a contact that one may have been exposed. Bath house culture was, of course, impossible because no one bothered with names, just dick size.

    The gay lobby did much to impair medical research as well when men lied to enter to or three pilot studies so as to get the one that worked or to get more medication. Blame was projected everywhere except where it belonged. We are seeing an uptick of syphilis cases in gay enclaves. That is a marker of unprotected sex. After all these decades of safe-sex preaching and treaching they don't get it. Well, they do get it but not in quite that way.

    Whining and projecting is much more satisfying than taking responsibility for one's action.

    Male homosexuals commonly have a personal history which is madcap and HIV has a very long incubation period. Contact tracing was never going to be practicable, because the vast majority of patients realizing they were ill would have a list with dozens of names on it (or dozens of asterisks of people whose first name they’d long forgotten and whose surname they never knew). It is true that the Health Department in New York City offered specious excuses for not closing the bathhouses therein. If Mayor Koch can be faulted, it’s in not replacing his health commissioner with a non-fool.

    • Replies: @Niccolo Salo
    The debate over closing the bathhouses in San Francisco was quite charged, with those in favour of closing them denounced as 'Sexual Nazis' even if they were gay themselves and involved in pro-gay politics on the local, state, and federal levels. Those opposed to the closure framed it as a civil liberty issue and kept pointing out that there was no proof that it was a sexually communicable disease (until it was proven).

    As for personal histories, San Francisco made a conscious choice to destroy all the records pertaining to sexual histories of all those who got HIV. You are right that the incubation period would have made it an impossible task anyway.

    When the first questionnaires were drawn up by the CDC to be given to gay men, 20 partners or more was considered 'promiscuous'. After the first few interviews, they had to adjust the numbers upwards. And then again. And again. It got to the point where you had to have at least 100 partners a year to be in the 'promiscuous' range.
  53. I don’t think gay men were as tendentiously political in the 1980s. Back then they tended to look down upon lesbian feminists as strident and humorless, but they’ve since adopted lesbian victimism and are now better at it than the women are.

    Back in the 1980s it was completely obvious that gays had inflicted this upon themselves during the Gay Liberation era.

    The retconning of the past maybe got into gear in the early 1990s when cures for AIDS started to appear. To put a date on it, Magic Johnson announced he had HIV in October 1991 and that he expected to beat it. I don’t know anybody who believed at the time that he would. But he got state-of-the-art celebrity care and is still alive.

    When AIDS was incurable, it didn’t make much sense to blame it on anybody else. But once it started to be quasi-manageable in the 1990s, then it quickly became popular to blame Ronald Reagan for not curing it faster.

    That doesn’t make much sense, but that’s how political myths are concocted.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    But he got state-of-the-art celebrity care and is still alive.
    --
    State of the art care at the time was AZT treatment. See Peter Duesberg on the life and death of Kimberley Bergalis; he makes a passable case that her illness was iatrogenic.
    --
    Keep in mind that after people seroconvert, it takes a certain amount of time for people to develop opportunistic infections, with some people progressing rapidly and some hardly at all. The median laps of time was something on the order of nine years. If the attrition rate is a constant (it may not be, and I assume some actuaries have calculated the function by now), you would still have one case in six wherein the patient would be free of opportunistic infections more than twenty years after seroconversion. Maybe Magic Johnson drew the long straw.
    --
    , @Art Deco
    When AIDS was incurable, it didn’t make much sense to blame it on anybody else. But once it started to be quasi-manageable in the 1990s, then it quickly became popular to blame Ronald Reagan for not curing it faster.
    --
    Good God, no. The animadversions hurled at the Reagan Administration and the Koch Administration were a well established feature of the discourse of political homosexuals by 1988, and, in fact, earlier.
    , @Jonathan Silber
    When AIDS was incurable...

    And it still is--but, as you mention, "manageable": The lives of the afflicted can be prolonged.

    To paraphrase the quip about the prospects of some country of South America: a cure for AIDS is only five years or so away, and always will be.
  54. Roosh has a piece up on ROK about a professor that used facts in a discussion with a gay to lay the blame for AIDS straight at the feet of gay men and a whole ruckus was raised where the guy was “outed” to the whole European Academic community and banished. Roosh claims that the reason they went after the guy was exactly because he used hard facts.

    I had noted that during the whole Indiana affair, there was this back mention of this AIDS epidemic going in Scott County, Indiana. And Gov Pence institutes a needle swap program to fight it. And I checked the state health department stats about the epidemic. There were 95 HIV/AIDS cases in Scott County alone, out of over 400 in the whole state. In the whole state there were 2, yes 2, cases attributed directly to Intravenous Drug Use. The largest category was MSM (male sex with males). I did some math and looked at census data. It said .4% of the county was black, and by percentages 2% of men were gay. So in a population of around 22,000, Most of the gay and black men had HIV/AIDS. Yet, a needle swap program is the public health response that is publicized. It is obvious from the stats that anal sex is the prime culprit. But God Forbid someone might point that out. And this Scott Country epidemic is a unique little microcosm of AIDS data because it is so remote a place. And the data points out that at the very epicenter of epidemic, Gay anal sex is the cause and driver of the epidemic.

    AIDS has been a thing for over 30 years, as has been this bullshit notion of “Safe Sex” as a way to infer that heterosexual sex can spread AIDS. It doesn’t. Men that claim so in data sheets probably lied to cover homosexual activity. Normal people don’t get AIDS. And the stats in Indiana and everywhere show. AIDS is such a weak ass virus that normal external immune system defenses in the mouth, the respiratory system, the skin, and in the female vagina are perfectly adequate to kick that virus’ ass. Most men are normal, almost all men, and have normal sex. AIDS is passed blood to blood. And the tearing of the anal canal during anal sex is practically the only way that AIDS is passed, particularly during violent sexual activity.

    Fags can keep playing the “Don’t look behind the curtain” game about AIDS, but the stats do not lie even if fags do.

  55. @Steve Sailer
    I don't think gay men were as tendentiously political in the 1980s. Back then they tended to look down upon lesbian feminists as strident and humorless, but they've since adopted lesbian victimism and are now better at it than the women are.

    Back in the 1980s it was completely obvious that gays had inflicted this upon themselves during the Gay Liberation era.

    The retconning of the past maybe got into gear in the early 1990s when cures for AIDS started to appear. To put a date on it, Magic Johnson announced he had HIV in October 1991 and that he expected to beat it. I don't know anybody who believed at the time that he would. But he got state-of-the-art celebrity care and is still alive.

    When AIDS was incurable, it didn't make much sense to blame it on anybody else. But once it started to be quasi-manageable in the 1990s, then it quickly became popular to blame Ronald Reagan for not curing it faster.

    That doesn't make much sense, but that's how political myths are concocted.

    But he got state-of-the-art celebrity care and is still alive.

    State of the art care at the time was AZT treatment. See Peter Duesberg on the life and death of Kimberley Bergalis; he makes a passable case that her illness was iatrogenic.

    Keep in mind that after people seroconvert, it takes a certain amount of time for people to develop opportunistic infections, with some people progressing rapidly and some hardly at all. The median laps of time was something on the order of nine years. If the attrition rate is a constant (it may not be, and I assume some actuaries have calculated the function by now), you would still have one case in six wherein the patient would be free of opportunistic infections more than twenty years after seroconversion. Maybe Magic Johnson drew the long straw.

  56. @Niccolo Salo
    In the book "And the Band Played On" detailing the early days of HIV up until 1985 or so, the author explains how gays in places like San Fran, LA, and NYC started getting sick around 1976 with all sorts of weird ailments. He asked his gay friends "when do you remember everyone being healthy and no one being sick?"

    As for the GRIDS era, it was brought to the attention of gays in the Castro District of San Francisco publicly by way of a fellow named Bobbi Campbell who took the Samizdat route in 1981 when he took pictures of the Kaposi's Sarcoma lesions on his feet (and in his mouth, IIRC), photocopied them, and taped it to the windows outside of a local pharmacy with the words "WATCH OUT - SOMETHING IS OUT THERE" in bold lettering emblazoned atop the display. This pharmacy was one of many where gays would pick up their prescriptions for their various diseases, besides other things.

    1981 was when they started hearing about this. 1983 was when the avalanche really picked up speed.

    In June, 1982 I took my new video camera and small suitcase sized recorder on the Larkspur ferry over to San Francisco to tape the Gay Pride Parade. I even had a working title for my project, AIDS: Prelude to Holocaust! As I headed up Market St. I noticed how gaunt many of the gay men were. I saw one vomit on the sidewalk. It was a different scene from that of just a few years before when some friends had prevailed upon me to go with them to Busby’s on Polk St which preceded Castro St. as the center of ‘gay life’ in San Francisco but quickly became too drug infested and depraved even for most homosexual men thus they decamped to the Castro. I realized as I watched the gays assembling for their march up Market St. that I was looking at something not so different than passengers boarding the Titanic. They were dressed in outlandish attire and trying to put a brave face on the situation but there was fear in the air and after I videoed the gay man vomiting and the puddle he left on the sidewalk I realized I had better get the hell out of there. No one knew how AIDS was being transmitted only that gay men were coming down with it and once they got sick they did not get better.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    More SF lore: In the late '80's Polk Gulch was a terrific place to pick up cute teen girl hookers. The cops might never have caught on, except for a guy named Roger Boas, the local Honda dealer, who decided to run for Mayor. He put up a campaign billboard at Polk/Post, and a 15 year old remarked to somebody, "hey, I've dated that guy!" I've forgotten the alias he used. Anyway Steve, Boas was a Pacific Heights neighbor of Sandy Tatum, Vice-President of the U.S.G.A. Tatum wrote a letter to the editor of the Chronicle vouching for Boas' character, a rare bogey for him.
  57. @Steve Sailer
    I don't think gay men were as tendentiously political in the 1980s. Back then they tended to look down upon lesbian feminists as strident and humorless, but they've since adopted lesbian victimism and are now better at it than the women are.

    Back in the 1980s it was completely obvious that gays had inflicted this upon themselves during the Gay Liberation era.

    The retconning of the past maybe got into gear in the early 1990s when cures for AIDS started to appear. To put a date on it, Magic Johnson announced he had HIV in October 1991 and that he expected to beat it. I don't know anybody who believed at the time that he would. But he got state-of-the-art celebrity care and is still alive.

    When AIDS was incurable, it didn't make much sense to blame it on anybody else. But once it started to be quasi-manageable in the 1990s, then it quickly became popular to blame Ronald Reagan for not curing it faster.

    That doesn't make much sense, but that's how political myths are concocted.

    When AIDS was incurable, it didn’t make much sense to blame it on anybody else. But once it started to be quasi-manageable in the 1990s, then it quickly became popular to blame Ronald Reagan for not curing it faster.

    Good God, no. The animadversions hurled at the Reagan Administration and the Koch Administration were a well established feature of the discourse of political homosexuals by 1988, and, in fact, earlier.

  58. No, count me in with those who say Kramer has always been a high-strung nut. I tell my kids that history always starts with the radicals, the ferocious people who are unconcerned with social graces and are often downright off their rockers. Then the moderates come in and make it fashionable and usually boot out the original people who got everything notices. Kramer was AIDs’ Samuel Adams or Thomas Paine, who was kicked out of his own group (GMHC) once the moderates realized he was freaking out the straights. Kramer has all sorts of insane views, and I can’t say I like him at all. But he was very effective.

    Arguably, the incredibly quick time between identifying a lethal disease and turning it manageable was Kramer’s ruthless focus on demanding medical funding through that group ACT UP. Given that the disease really didn’t affect anyone other than gays, once the blood supply was cleaned up, all that the movement had was either fashionable support by Elizabeth Taylor or laserlike obnoxious focused demands like Kramer’s . I suspect history will show Kramer had more impact. I know that The Band Played On suggested as much, even though Shilts clearly approved more of the Krauss’s and Pophams.

    then it quickly became popular to blame Ronald Reagan for not curing it faster.

    No, Reagan and the Republicans were blamed in the 80s. In fact, I remember thinking how utterly stupid it was for blaming them, given that a disease this horrible couldn’t possibly be cured just by demanding attention. And then it turned out that it could at least be made manageable. (I’m with those who don’t see that as a good thing.) Shilts was always talking about how Reagan didn’t mention AIDS, which was wrong, by the way, as were charges that Reagan was against gays.

    I remember the 1988 democratic debates were constantly being interrupted by activists screaming “WHAT ABOUT AIDS!?” and Al Gore finally breaking off and telling them that they would discuss it eventually, but right now, they were talking about something else.

    So no, it was very fashionable in the 80s to blame Reagan for AIDS, and to declare that more could be done if they’d just discuss it. Of course, the obvious discussion points like quarantine were off limits–something that I think may just kill Africa.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Arguably, the incredibly quick time between identifying a lethal disease and turning it manageable was Kramer’s ruthless focus on demanding medical funding through that group ACT UP. Given that the disease really didn’t affect anyone other than gays,

    --

    ACT UP was founded in 1987. There was already a general mobilization among public health specialists and medical researchers regarding the disease, and had been for several years at that point.
    , @Art Deco
    Shilts was always talking about how Reagan didn’t mention AIDS, which was wrong, by the way, as were charges that Reagan was against gays.

    --

    Homosexuals were not taking up much rent-free space in Mr. Reagan's head and Mr. Koch was given to telling activists that there were demands on the city government and its budget not emanating from them. Both dispositions are conceived of as hostile by a certain (histrionic) type.

    --

    Koch had a different take. Asked why the gay lobby was so antagonistic to him, he offered a pondered and tentative answer, "They could not control me..."
    , @Marty
    It's interesting that you say Kramer was kicked out of GMHC by moderates. I don't argue the point, it's just that I happened to be reading the Village Voice one day in 1996. There was an interview with the Director of NYC-GMHC. He said,

    "We're never going to cure this epidemic until people understand how important it is for me to have a cock in my ass and another in my mouth."
  59. Kramer told us all we needed to know in Faggots. He listed all the drugs they were taking every day, he described what they did in the bathhouses and out on Fire Island, and he predicted they would all F*** themselves to death.

    He was right and has been trying to make up for it ever since.

  60. @ben tillman

    Heterosexual men in America were never in much danger from AIDS at all, unless they were needle junkies.
     
    In the wake of all its recent lying, I will give credit to Rolling Stone for publishing a Greider article in the late 1980's that explained this point.

    In the wake of all its recent lying, I will give credit to Rolling Stone for publishing a Greider article in the late 1980′s that explained this point.

    Bullsh*t!!!!

    If Rolling Stone had any decency it would lead the Cultural Marxist Media in publishing a long over due public apology to Michael “The Myth of Heterosexual Aids” Fumento. It might be a good first step in regaining its credibility after Sabrina Rubin Erdely has wiped her ass with it.

    It is really sad that one of the best contrarian investigative journalists of the last 30 years is unemployed(unemployable?) and living in Columbia.

    Go visit Fumento’s website. The guy has an amazing body of work.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Go visit Fumento’s website. The guy has an amazing body of work.
     
    His book is on a shelf in my office. The lies about AIDS and my introduction to the Internet were the "red pill" for me.
  61. @Art Deco
    Actually, what was depressing was Tyler Cowan offering kudos to Lawrence Mass' favorable review. Mass' has no critical distance from the subject and said nutty things in the review, but a libertarian academic is so socialized into the dominant tastes among academics that he hardly notices.

    From every head slappingly goofy Tyler Cowen article that Steve Sailer has ever commented on, Cowen comes across as a silly nebbish jewish uber libertarian who most likely had his first sexual experience alone in rapture reading Ayn Rand’s The Fountainhead.

    Still no matter how clueless and straight, that Cowen could for one moment take the even more ridiculous gay Larry Kramer serious is more an expression of vicious Jewish ethnocentrism against the straight goyim than any thing else.

    Blood Libel indeed!!!

  62. @Shouting Thomas
    You call them out if you want to. I'm tired of taking the abuse from those bastards for telling them what I saw with my own eyes.

    Yes, a massive media campaign has pinned the AIDS epidemic on straight white men. All those tens of thousands of dead gay men died because homophobic mobs of straight men chased them down and murdered them.

    Hell, I know what happened. I was right in the middle of it in SF and NYC.

    You want to take the abuse, Steve... go right ahead. These bastards are murderous, insane Nazis.

    Basically, this is a massive blood libel, but you aren’t supposed to notice that.

    Hell, I know what happened. I was right in the middle of it in SF and NYC.

    Me too (well just NYC).

    The massive blood libel in question was pretty much the party line throughout the 1980s, often with the added detail of specifically blaming Reagan.

    Even explicitly over the radio. Remember WBAI?

  63. RE: Lincoln,

    Kramer used to claim that he had proof that Lincoln was a homosexual:

    Kramer doesn’t pretend to be a Lincoln scholar or even an objective researcher. (“I have read all the biographies, and they are full of shit,” he spits, and derides Pulitzer Prize-winning Lincoln scholar David Herbert Donald as “some dried old heterosexual prune at Harvard.”) He’s an unabashed gay rabble-rouser, beating the bushes of history to find gay heroes. But if he really does have the new primary sources he claims to, even the staunchest defenders of Lincoln’s heterosexuality may be forced to reconsider. Kramer claims to have a trump card, a smoking gun: a hitherto unknown Joshua Speed diary, as well as a stash of letters in which Speed writes explicitly about his love affair with Lincoln. The secret pages, which were discovered hidden beneath the floorboards of the old store where the two men lived, now are said to reside in a private collection in Davenport, Iowa.

    http://www.salon.com/1999/04/30/lincoln/

    So far as I know, he’s never produced the document

    Now, if people want solid evidence for homosexual activity in 19th century America:

    In the late 20th century, historians learned that Hammond as a young man had a homosexual relationship with a college friend, Thomas Jefferson Withers, which is attested by two sexually explicit letters sent from Withers to Hammond in 1826. The letters, which are held among the Hammond Papers at the South Carolina Library, were first published by researcher Martin Duberman in 1981; they are notable as rare documentary evidence of same-sex relationships in the antebellum United States.[9]

    Hammond’s Secret and Sacred Diaries (not published until 1989) reveal that his sexual appetites were varied. He described, without embarrassment, his “familiarities and dalliances”[2] over two years with four teenage nieces, daughters of his sister-in-law Ann Fitzsimmons and her husband Wade Hampton II.[2][3] He blamed his behavior on what he described as the seductiveness of the “extremely affectionate” young women.[2] The scandal “derailed his political career” for a decade to come after Wade Hampton III publicly accused him in 1843, when Hammond was governor.[10] He was “ostracized by polite society” for some time, but in the late 1850s, he was nonetheless elected by the state legislature as US senator.[11]

    Hammond’s damage to the girls was far-reaching. Their social prospects were destroyed. Considered to have tarnished social reputations by his behavior, none of the four ever married.[2]

    Hammond was also known to have had long-term sexual relationships with two female slaves. He took the first slave as a concubine when she was 18 years old.[2] Such behavior was not uncommon among white men of power at the time; their mixed-race children were born into slavery and remained there unless the fathers took action to free them.[11] Later, Hammond took one of the slave woman’s daughters as a concubine when the girl was 12; she was the only child of the woman who did not appear to be his.[2]

    His wife left him for a few years, after he began the relationship with the slave girl, taking their own children with her. She later returned to her husband.[2]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Henry_Hammond

  64. I don’t think gay men were as tendentiously political in the 1980s. Back then they tended to look down upon lesbian feminists as strident and humorless, but they’ve since adopted lesbian victimism and are now better at it than the women are.

    Steve, I think you are only partially right here.

    As the afore mentioned Michael Fumento documented, through out the 1970’s radical gays repeatedly stated that gross and open promiscuity was their most important political act. In fact even after the onset of the aids crisis in the early 1980s the gay Marxists theoreticians denounced the the wearing of condoms as reactionary. Yes, visiting the bath houses for a couple of decades sounds a lot more decadent than overtly political than lets say opening a lesbian bookstore and protesting against Playboy magazine.

    But that does not mean that for a time that quite a number of gay men did not take seriously anal sodomy as the path towards the glorious revolution. I think the Cultural Marxists used the old Freudian term polymorphous promiscuity as to what they were up to as far as exploiting vulnerable gays as vanguards of the proletarian struggle.

    Last Steve, I think it is worth mentioning the late Larry Auster’s insight that when it comes to the gay lobby, it is not so much the gay that is the issue as the Marxism.

  65. @Twinkie

    Pre-puberty, I was obsessed with drawing pictures of and building models of warplanes, warships, drag racing cars, rocket ships, fighting robots, and guns. I was also obsessed with throwing balls and hitting them with sticks. I demanded from my parents for Christmas a BB gun, an archery set, and a Swiss Army knife.
     
    When I was growing up, I thought all young boyhood obsessions could be summed up thusly: Kung Fu movies and Westerns.

    When I met a homosexual man for the first time, I thought he was "playing a girl" in jest. And then when I realized he wasn't, I thought he was deranged, like a dog with rabies or something. Ooops. I guess I was raised by pretty retrograde parents.

    By the way, this is somewhat related to the topic, but it seems that the Mormons are yet again displaying their talent in bending to the dictates of the mainstream mores: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/gay-rights-religious-rights-and-a-compromise-in-an-unlikely-place-utah/2015/04/12/39278b12-ded8-11e4-a500-1c5bb1d8ff6a_story.html

    Here's to the Catholic Church for never altering its moral doctrines. And here's to enduring and universal truths!

    By the way, this is somewhat related to the topic, but it seems that the Mormons are yet again displaying their talent in bending to the dictates of the mainstream mores:

    Mormons have a pragmatic business oriented views on a number of issues involving those outside of their community. Want to have a ski vacation in Utah and then have some alcoholic drinks in the evenings? No problem use to be you had to pay a one time at the door “social club membership fee” before getting a drink.

    The Mormons attitude is ok you can be gay, just leave us Mormons they hell out of it.

    As a Hoosier, I think Indiana could learn a think from Utah’s Freedom of Association oriented , Live and Let Live old west cultural libertarianism.

  66. @Steve Sailer
    Regarding agnostic's theory: Let's use me as an average heterosexual male as a test case. Pre-puberty, I was obsessed with drawing pictures of and building models of warplanes, warships, drag racing cars, rocket ships, fighting robots, and guns. I was also obsessed with throwing balls and hitting them with sticks. I demanded from my parents for Christmas a BB gun, an archery set, and a Swiss Army knife.

    None of this seems to have much to do at all with conventional gay male lifestyles, which have more to do with my wife's pre-pubescent obsessions, like dressing up and doing her hair.

    Let’s use me as an average heterosexual male as a test case.

    Steve, if American history has taught us anything…

    I went looking for the info about Washington and found this comment on a blog…

    There is nothing wrong with Washingtons homosexual orientation. Most of the founding fathers fled Europe because they were gay or pedophile

    Ha!

  67. @Steve Sailer
    I don't think gay men were as tendentiously political in the 1980s. Back then they tended to look down upon lesbian feminists as strident and humorless, but they've since adopted lesbian victimism and are now better at it than the women are.

    Back in the 1980s it was completely obvious that gays had inflicted this upon themselves during the Gay Liberation era.

    The retconning of the past maybe got into gear in the early 1990s when cures for AIDS started to appear. To put a date on it, Magic Johnson announced he had HIV in October 1991 and that he expected to beat it. I don't know anybody who believed at the time that he would. But he got state-of-the-art celebrity care and is still alive.

    When AIDS was incurable, it didn't make much sense to blame it on anybody else. But once it started to be quasi-manageable in the 1990s, then it quickly became popular to blame Ronald Reagan for not curing it faster.

    That doesn't make much sense, but that's how political myths are concocted.

    When AIDS was incurable…

    And it still is–but, as you mention, “manageable”: The lives of the afflicted can be prolonged.

    To paraphrase the quip about the prospects of some country of South America: a cure for AIDS is only five years or so away, and always will be.

  68. @education realist
    No, count me in with those who say Kramer has always been a high-strung nut. I tell my kids that history always starts with the radicals, the ferocious people who are unconcerned with social graces and are often downright off their rockers. Then the moderates come in and make it fashionable and usually boot out the original people who got everything notices. Kramer was AIDs' Samuel Adams or Thomas Paine, who was kicked out of his own group (GMHC) once the moderates realized he was freaking out the straights. Kramer has all sorts of insane views, and I can't say I like him at all. But he was very effective.

    Arguably, the incredibly quick time between identifying a lethal disease and turning it manageable was Kramer's ruthless focus on demanding medical funding through that group ACT UP. Given that the disease really didn't affect anyone other than gays, once the blood supply was cleaned up, all that the movement had was either fashionable support by Elizabeth Taylor or laserlike obnoxious focused demands like Kramer's . I suspect history will show Kramer had more impact. I know that The Band Played On suggested as much, even though Shilts clearly approved more of the Krauss's and Pophams.

    then it quickly became popular to blame Ronald Reagan for not curing it faster.

    No, Reagan and the Republicans were blamed in the 80s. In fact, I remember thinking how utterly stupid it was for blaming them, given that a disease this horrible couldn't possibly be cured just by demanding attention. And then it turned out that it could at least be made manageable. (I'm with those who don't see that as a good thing.) Shilts was always talking about how Reagan didn't mention AIDS, which was wrong, by the way, as were charges that Reagan was against gays.

    I remember the 1988 democratic debates were constantly being interrupted by activists screaming "WHAT ABOUT AIDS!?" and Al Gore finally breaking off and telling them that they would discuss it eventually, but right now, they were talking about something else.

    So no, it was very fashionable in the 80s to blame Reagan for AIDS, and to declare that more could be done if they'd just discuss it. Of course, the obvious discussion points like quarantine were off limits--something that I think may just kill Africa.

    Arguably, the incredibly quick time between identifying a lethal disease and turning it manageable was Kramer’s ruthless focus on demanding medical funding through that group ACT UP. Given that the disease really didn’t affect anyone other than gays,

    ACT UP was founded in 1987. There was already a general mobilization among public health specialists and medical researchers regarding the disease, and had been for several years at that point.

  69. @education realist
    No, count me in with those who say Kramer has always been a high-strung nut. I tell my kids that history always starts with the radicals, the ferocious people who are unconcerned with social graces and are often downright off their rockers. Then the moderates come in and make it fashionable and usually boot out the original people who got everything notices. Kramer was AIDs' Samuel Adams or Thomas Paine, who was kicked out of his own group (GMHC) once the moderates realized he was freaking out the straights. Kramer has all sorts of insane views, and I can't say I like him at all. But he was very effective.

    Arguably, the incredibly quick time between identifying a lethal disease and turning it manageable was Kramer's ruthless focus on demanding medical funding through that group ACT UP. Given that the disease really didn't affect anyone other than gays, once the blood supply was cleaned up, all that the movement had was either fashionable support by Elizabeth Taylor or laserlike obnoxious focused demands like Kramer's . I suspect history will show Kramer had more impact. I know that The Band Played On suggested as much, even though Shilts clearly approved more of the Krauss's and Pophams.

    then it quickly became popular to blame Ronald Reagan for not curing it faster.

    No, Reagan and the Republicans were blamed in the 80s. In fact, I remember thinking how utterly stupid it was for blaming them, given that a disease this horrible couldn't possibly be cured just by demanding attention. And then it turned out that it could at least be made manageable. (I'm with those who don't see that as a good thing.) Shilts was always talking about how Reagan didn't mention AIDS, which was wrong, by the way, as were charges that Reagan was against gays.

    I remember the 1988 democratic debates were constantly being interrupted by activists screaming "WHAT ABOUT AIDS!?" and Al Gore finally breaking off and telling them that they would discuss it eventually, but right now, they were talking about something else.

    So no, it was very fashionable in the 80s to blame Reagan for AIDS, and to declare that more could be done if they'd just discuss it. Of course, the obvious discussion points like quarantine were off limits--something that I think may just kill Africa.

    Shilts was always talking about how Reagan didn’t mention AIDS, which was wrong, by the way, as were charges that Reagan was against gays.

    Homosexuals were not taking up much rent-free space in Mr. Reagan’s head and Mr. Koch was given to telling activists that there were demands on the city government and its budget not emanating from them. Both dispositions are conceived of as hostile by a certain (histrionic) type.

    Koch had a different take. Asked why the gay lobby was so antagonistic to him, he offered a pondered and tentative answer, “They could not control me…”

  70. In the seventies at work, i sat next to a gay guy who later dies of AIDs in the early eighties. He was a frequenter of the Baths and he told me stories that blew my mind. He would tell me he had sex with guys who he did not even know what they looked like, in a dimly lit, twenty by forty room full of lechy looking gays with white towels and Crisco. At first I just could not believe the monkey activity these guys were engaging in. Later, I did not doubt him.

    I think the main thing the prestige press and naive Mr. and Mrs. Suburbia don’t recognize about this gay sex stuff( men only) is the obsession with random sex. These guys are monkey troupe with hard-ons, sticking it anywhere that is 98.6 degrees.The number of partners, the total anonymity of the partners, is the male sex drive unleashed from its female restraints. I was shocked but then I started to appreciate women, whose name and face I knew.

    This guy thought a lot of public figures were gay. Gerry Ford’s son etc, but usually they had to be in their twenties. I don’t think he went so far as to think Gerry Ford, Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan were secretly yearning for trip to the baths for old times sake.

    • Replies: @Astroguts
    A disturbing thought is that this is how an all-male society might look like. Even if they weren't gay, without women as a moderating influence, men might be on a nonstop quest to pleasure themselves with sex toys and masturbation.

    I've read once that the male sex drive increases while being around other men, and decreases while being around women. Which is paradoxical, but might explain the obsession of gays with sex to some degree.
  71. @Anonymous
    Hell, I know what happened. I was right in the middle of it in SF and NYC.

    What happened?

    If you want to know what happened, a good place to start is Kramer’s own book, “Faggots,” about the scene on Fire Island in the late ’70’s. Just a few pages and you’ll get a good feel about how the puritanical forces of moralism viciously obstructed every attempt of the truly sophisticated to tongue the prostate. Or, as my erstwhile co-worker Ken McFarlane once boasted to me, “I had seven last night.”

  72. @Art Deco
    Male homosexuals commonly have a personal history which is madcap and HIV has a very long incubation period. Contact tracing was never going to be practicable, because the vast majority of patients realizing they were ill would have a list with dozens of names on it (or dozens of asterisks of people whose first name they'd long forgotten and whose surname they never knew). It is true that the Health Department in New York City offered specious excuses for not closing the bathhouses therein. If Mayor Koch can be faulted, it's in not replacing his health commissioner with a non-fool.

    The debate over closing the bathhouses in San Francisco was quite charged, with those in favour of closing them denounced as ‘Sexual Nazis’ even if they were gay themselves and involved in pro-gay politics on the local, state, and federal levels. Those opposed to the closure framed it as a civil liberty issue and kept pointing out that there was no proof that it was a sexually communicable disease (until it was proven).

    As for personal histories, San Francisco made a conscious choice to destroy all the records pertaining to sexual histories of all those who got HIV. You are right that the incubation period would have made it an impossible task anyway.

    When the first questionnaires were drawn up by the CDC to be given to gay men, 20 partners or more was considered ‘promiscuous’. After the first few interviews, they had to adjust the numbers upwards. And then again. And again. It got to the point where you had to have at least 100 partners a year to be in the ‘promiscuous’ range.

  73. @Jeremiahjohnbalaya
    "no good argument against gay marriage".

    Of course there is. It's a waste of the state's resources spent enforcing it. Homosexual intercourse does not inevitably lead to children who are more likely to grow up to be law-abiding, tax-paying citizens when raised in a nuclear family. Heterosexual intercourse does, and therefore the state has an interest in the later.

    1) This idea that homosexuals don’t have kids is wrong. From anecdotal experience, it doesn’t seem uncommon for lesbian couples to have kids using a gay male friend’s donated sperm.

    2) Heterosexual intercourse doesn’t just lead to law-abiding, tax-paying citizens, but also law-breaking, tax-consuming citizens.

    • Replies: @Jeremiahjohnbalaya
    1) This idea that homosexuals don’t have kids is wrong. From anecdotal experience, it doesn’t seem uncommon for lesbian couples to have kids using a gay male friend’s donated sperm.

    Ah, well, let's base public policy on your anecdotal evidence.

    2) Heterosexual intercourse doesn’t just lead to law-abiding, tax-paying citizens, but also law-breaking, tax-consuming citizens.

    In the absence of a stable family, yes. The reason that the state (and society) expend resources on enforcing marriage law is that it believes (and I believe) that stable, supportive, nuclear families are more likely to lead to law-abiding, tax-paying citizens.

    The entire point of marriage is to force the man and the woman to stay around and support all the kids.

    Given some historical evidence that same sex couple could raise kids similarly, we can start to talk about expending resource promoting it.

    To require an explanation of these points just emphasized how little people really understand exactly what marriage is.

  74. @advancedatheist
    The blogger "agnostic" at akinokure.blogspot.com characterizes male homosexuality as arrested cognitive development in boyhood, around the "girls have cooties" stage. People mistake the neotenous behavior of gay men as "effeminate" because normal adult women display more childlike characteristics than normal adult men. But gay men don't show any female nurturing behavior. Instead they behave like Peter Pan who went through puberty physically but not cognitively, and he wants to stick his penis into other males for sexual release because the female body disgusts him.

    Gays' obsessive-compulsiveness under the influence of male hormones also resembles the behavior of addicts, and that probably reflects boyish characteristics as well. Boys get hyper just from drinking caffeinated beverages, so imagine what they would do if they had access to the kinds of party drugs many gay men ingest.

    You really have to feel sorry for these damaged men. Straight men can certainly have troubled relationships with women - male sexuality has a tragic component that few people want to talk about outside of the Manosphere blogs. But at least the exercise of learning how to deal with women effectively can help men to function better socially and emotionally. Gay men by contrast remain cut off from this important area of personal growth, and they suffer from diminished lives as a result.

    If you want to know what happened, a good place to start is Kramer’s own book, “Faggots,” about the scene on Fire Island in the late ’70’s. Just a few pages and you’ll get a good feel about how the puritanical forces of moralism viciously obstructed every attempt of the truly sophisticated to tongue the prostate. Or, as my erstwhile co-worker Ken McFarlane once boasted to me, “I had seven last night.”

  75. I remember people raging on about how Reagan was responsible. I would ask them: What was Reagan supposed to do, fly out to San Francisco every night and sit in front of a bathhouse and remind each patron to limit himself to only 15 different unknown partners tonight instead of the usual 50 to 60?

    They used to also make the excuse that AIDS was an “education” problem that somehow gays didn’t know about it and were therefore blameless. I would say: “Of course it is education. You have to get the gays to stop BFing for 5 minutes to tell them all about it”.

    Neither response was well received.

  76. @education realist
    No, count me in with those who say Kramer has always been a high-strung nut. I tell my kids that history always starts with the radicals, the ferocious people who are unconcerned with social graces and are often downright off their rockers. Then the moderates come in and make it fashionable and usually boot out the original people who got everything notices. Kramer was AIDs' Samuel Adams or Thomas Paine, who was kicked out of his own group (GMHC) once the moderates realized he was freaking out the straights. Kramer has all sorts of insane views, and I can't say I like him at all. But he was very effective.

    Arguably, the incredibly quick time between identifying a lethal disease and turning it manageable was Kramer's ruthless focus on demanding medical funding through that group ACT UP. Given that the disease really didn't affect anyone other than gays, once the blood supply was cleaned up, all that the movement had was either fashionable support by Elizabeth Taylor or laserlike obnoxious focused demands like Kramer's . I suspect history will show Kramer had more impact. I know that The Band Played On suggested as much, even though Shilts clearly approved more of the Krauss's and Pophams.

    then it quickly became popular to blame Ronald Reagan for not curing it faster.

    No, Reagan and the Republicans were blamed in the 80s. In fact, I remember thinking how utterly stupid it was for blaming them, given that a disease this horrible couldn't possibly be cured just by demanding attention. And then it turned out that it could at least be made manageable. (I'm with those who don't see that as a good thing.) Shilts was always talking about how Reagan didn't mention AIDS, which was wrong, by the way, as were charges that Reagan was against gays.

    I remember the 1988 democratic debates were constantly being interrupted by activists screaming "WHAT ABOUT AIDS!?" and Al Gore finally breaking off and telling them that they would discuss it eventually, but right now, they were talking about something else.

    So no, it was very fashionable in the 80s to blame Reagan for AIDS, and to declare that more could be done if they'd just discuss it. Of course, the obvious discussion points like quarantine were off limits--something that I think may just kill Africa.

    It’s interesting that you say Kramer was kicked out of GMHC by moderates. I don’t argue the point, it’s just that I happened to be reading the Village Voice one day in 1996. There was an interview with the Director of NYC-GMHC. He said,

    “We’re never going to cure this epidemic until people understand how important it is for me to have a cock in my ass and another in my mouth.”

  77. @Steve Sailer
    "this will end up killing bisexual men."

    And heterosexual women.

    Heterosexual men in America were never in much danger from AIDS at all, unless they were needle junkies.

    Heterosexual men in America were never in much danger from AIDS at all, unless they were needle junkies.

    William S Burroughs said that anyone who could afford heroin could afford syringes so there was no excuse for using dirty needles.

  78. @JSM
    "Oh, and thanks for killing all those hemophiliacs"

    And straight oldsters needing blood transfusions during heart surgery, like Isaac Asimov.

    So, yeah, thanks, gays, also, for killing one of America's National Treasures.

    Arthur Ashe as well.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar


    And straight oldsters needing blood transfusions during heart surgery, like Isaac Asimov.
     
    Arthur Ashe as well.

     

    And Tom Fogerty of CCR.
  79. So this kind of subject material as well as the late Howard Zinn’s History of the American People seem to have little problems finding a mainstream publisher, but Arthur Jensen and Philippe Rushton were considered to be the devil incarnate for having dared even to write about such forbidden topics as IQ differences, etc.

    Perhaps if either one of them had made it a bit more sexy or punched it up a little by including a sex scene somewhere, someplace within the research.

    By the way, whatever became of Michael Fumento’s 1992 book, The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS? The one where he showed, based on the CDC’S own data that AIDS would in fact start to peak by the year 2000? Which in fact it did start to peak around that time. In fact, AIDS has never been on the top five diseases that kill most Americans and only a few times cracked the top ten. Hasn’t been in the top ten in about a decade in a half.

    Another thing we’re not allowed to notice.

    • Replies: @Big Bill
    Sadly, AIDS may not be a major cause of death, but it does cost the taxpayer a minimum of about $65,000 per year per disease vector to "manage" with meds. The better (and more expensive!) the treatments, the longer the disease vectors are kept alive and transmitting. AIDS is almost tailor-made to produce Big Pharma profits.

    At least motorcyclists (med-speak: "donor-cycles") have the decency to die and can be subsequently parted out for organs, thereby saving lives even as they terminate themselves by reckless behavior.
  80. e says:

    This is from an article in which long-term survivors are interviewed:

    http://www.hivplusmag.com/people/2012/10/08/hivs-longtime-survivors?page=0,1

    What don’t people realize about HIV?

    None of the treatments are perfect and there is no cure. Far too many people presume that nobody dies of AIDS anymore, at least not in First World nations. This of course is not true. There are, of course, certain elements in the world that insists on continuing to think of HIV as a “gay” disease, despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of those living with HIV in the world today are heterosexual.
    ______________________________________________________________

    The “survivor” squawks the kind of crap statement that makes sympathy for gay AIDS patients difficult. It’s the old, disingenuous, “overwhelming majority of those living with HIV in the world today are heterosexual” statement for the lapdog press which always conveniently skirts the stats of those living with HIV in the Western world and in particular, the U.S.

  81. @Drake

    Lots of gay men of Kramer’s age or younger killed men they had sex with.
     
    And not just men they had sex with, around 10,000 hemophiliacs contracted AIDS due to a tainted blood supply.

    That homosexual behavior spreads disease at vastly higher rates than heterosexual behavior is still the best secular argument in favor of stigmatizing it, just as we stigmatize smoking and drug use.

    We often hear about how homosexuals can't choose their sexual identity. But there is a class of people who can choose: bisexuals. And homophobia provides useful guidance and discourages them from dangerous homosexual activity.

    Homophobia saves bisexuals' lives.

    In a previous thread it was mentioned that there was no good argument against gay marriage. Well, here it is: legalizing gay marriage destigmatizes homosexual behavior, and this will end up killing bisexual men.

    Liberals like to say the most outspoken homophobes have hidden homosexual desires. They joke about this, but what if it's true? Don't bisexual men have a very good reason to cultivate their own sense of homophobia, in order to suppress their homosexual desires. Isn't that a completely rational thing for them to do, to help themselves and their fellow bisexual men from dying of AIDS?

    “And not just men they had sex with, around 10,000 hemophiliacs contracted AIDS due to a tainted blood supply.”

    Homosexuals reaping the consequences of their vile behavior never bothered me, but innocents (e.g., hemophiliacs) contracting the disease always really pissed me off. And I seem to recall that some of these really degenerate homosexuals were purposely, knowingly tainting the blood supply, or at least threatening to. What utter scum.

    • Replies: @Ted

    Recently unearthed documents show that the drug company Bayer sold millions of dollars worth of an injectable blood-clotting medicine -- Factor VIII concentrate, intended for hemophiliacs -- to Asian, Latin American, and some European countries in the mid-1980s, although they knew that it was tainted with AIDS.

    The company stopped selling the drug in the United States in 1984, but continued to sell it overseas for an additional year.
    ...
    Records show that the company continued to sell the medicine overseas in an attempt to avoid being left with a large stock of a drug that was no longer marketable in the United States. The dangers of the drug had become well-known domestically, but the news was slower to reach other parts of the world.

    However, Bayer also continued to manufacture the medicine for several months after pulling it from the market in the United States, because it was cheaper to produce than the new, safer product they were introducing as a replacement.
    ...
    FDA regulators helped to keep the continued sales hidden, asking the company that the problem be ‘‘quietly solved without alerting the Congress, the medical community and the public,‘‘ according to the minutes of a 1985 meeting.

     

    articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2006/08/05/bayer-sells-aids-infected-drug-banned-in-us-in-europe-asia.aspx
  82. I say thank goodness for queers. Dorothty Stratten was playmate of the year for 1980, but for 3 months that year I was with an 18 year old who was even better looking (with a 140 IQ to boot), and it was all because someone thought I might be gay:

    Q: Are you gay?
    A: What? Why am I gay?
    Q: Well, _____ is gay.
    A: Good for him, I’m not.
    Q: Well, ____ likes you.
    A: She does? Okay, I had no idea.

  83. The amount of distortion of the AIDS epidemic in the 80s and 90s was insane.

    It was obvious to anyone who looked behind the hysteria that the risk to heterosexuals was negligible, and that those who were at risk could easily prevent it without even radically altering their lifestyles (i.e. gays by using condoms and drug addicts by using clean hypodermic needles). I remember reading a report in 1987 of a study of married couples where the husbands were heterosexual haemophiliacs who had contracted HIV. I remember it was a large enough sample but I forget the exact number. Anyway, even after having unprotected sex with their unwittingly infected spouses hundreds of times, not one of the women contracted HIV (even though women were more susceptible to infection than men).

    Just as the media is now in perpetual search of a Great White Defendant, they were then in eager pursuit of the Great Heterosexual AIDS Victim. Soaps like Eastenders often stepped in with just such a fictional character where reality failed.

    • Replies: @Ozymandias
    "...even after having unprotected sex with their unwittingly infected spouses hundreds of times, not one of the women contracted HIV."

    I'm skeptical. A very high percentage of these men would have been having unprotected sex. Were none of these gents getting any backdoor action? What would be the defining characteristic that kept these women from being infected by this high risk behavior? (albeit unknowingly)
  84. @Anonymous
    "The Washington Times, June 29, 1989 (Front page story)
    Homosexual prositution inquiry ensnares VIPs with Reagan, Bush
    'Call Boys' took midnight tour of White House "

    http://educate-yourself.org/tg/franklincoverupexcerptwashtimesphoto.shtml

    Tom Brokaw's story on the Reagan White House call boy ring scandal:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTitnDgw3Gc

    A paedophile ring has been exposed as having been run with members at the very top of politics (Leon Brittan, Cyril Smith), the civil service and the intelligence community in Britain so I wouldn’t be surprised if there was one in the US. The police investigation is on going.

    David Icke appears to have been right about some things.

  85. “…the Masturbovs, stand-ins for his own family, but with extraordinary twists.”

    Should that have been “extraordinary wrists”?

  86. @Harry Baldwin
    . . . virtually every actor in Hollywood past and present, including one who became president, and so many others, were gay or did it with men at some point.

    Old news. Back in the 1970s, Charles Bronson, Lee Marvin, and Clint Eastwood of the Hollywood Gay Alliance revealed this on the National Lampoon Radio Hour:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5Sznand-qM

    Marvin was a fairly down-the-line Hollywood lib IIRC (of course, 1960s Kennedy Democrat still being a far cry from the current incarnation). He even described himself as pro-gay in interviews though I suspect this was more from a natural contrarianism than understanding what it meant.

  87. I somehow slogged thru that ‘review’ of Kramer’s magnum delirius. The gist of it is this: “the greater truth Kramer so persistently makes the case for seems credible: that the histories of the American people that have come down to us, even from many contemporary historians, are so myopic, naive, reticent and constipated about the impact of sexuality and especially homosexuality and bisexuality in historical life and relationships and events, that nothing less than the entirety of this history needs to be reexamined and rewritten. For this reason alone, The American People is likely to find its place among the notable works of the Western canon.”

    Of course, Kramer’s book will never enter “the Western canon,” which, as compromised as it is, has not sunk to these depths yet. As far as his “greater truth,” Kramer’s contribution is to say that history is driven by the sex drive, and to contend, usually with no evidence at all, that that sex drive is often homosexual. To me, this is nothing more than a pedestrian observation coupled with an active imagination. Big deal.

    I attended a Kramer speech/presentation once. He’s a con man, with all the confidence, bluster, and quick-on-his-feet subject-changing and deflections that that job requires.

  88. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @unit472
    In June, 1982 I took my new video camera and small suitcase sized recorder on the Larkspur ferry over to San Francisco to tape the Gay Pride Parade. I even had a working title for my project, AIDS: Prelude to Holocaust! As I headed up Market St. I noticed how gaunt many of the gay men were. I saw one vomit on the sidewalk. It was a different scene from that of just a few years before when some friends had prevailed upon me to go with them to Busby's on Polk St which preceded Castro St. as the center of 'gay life' in San Francisco but quickly became too drug infested and depraved even for most homosexual men thus they decamped to the Castro. I realized as I watched the gays assembling for their march up Market St. that I was looking at something not so different than passengers boarding the Titanic. They were dressed in outlandish attire and trying to put a brave face on the situation but there was fear in the air and after I videoed the gay man vomiting and the puddle he left on the sidewalk I realized I had better get the hell out of there. No one knew how AIDS was being transmitted only that gay men were coming down with it and once they got sick they did not get better.

    More SF lore: In the late ’80’s Polk Gulch was a terrific place to pick up cute teen girl hookers. The cops might never have caught on, except for a guy named Roger Boas, the local Honda dealer, who decided to run for Mayor. He put up a campaign billboard at Polk/Post, and a 15 year old remarked to somebody, “hey, I’ve dated that guy!” I’ve forgotten the alias he used. Anyway Steve, Boas was a Pacific Heights neighbor of Sandy Tatum, Vice-President of the U.S.G.A. Tatum wrote a letter to the editor of the Chronicle vouching for Boas’ character, a rare bogey for him.

  89. It appears that the best thing that ever happened to homosexual men was cultural repression of their depravity.

  90. @Rob McX
    The amount of distortion of the AIDS epidemic in the 80s and 90s was insane.

    It was obvious to anyone who looked behind the hysteria that the risk to heterosexuals was negligible, and that those who were at risk could easily prevent it without even radically altering their lifestyles (i.e. gays by using condoms and drug addicts by using clean hypodermic needles). I remember reading a report in 1987 of a study of married couples where the husbands were heterosexual haemophiliacs who had contracted HIV. I remember it was a large enough sample but I forget the exact number. Anyway, even after having unprotected sex with their unwittingly infected spouses hundreds of times, not one of the women contracted HIV (even though women were more susceptible to infection than men).

    Just as the media is now in perpetual search of a Great White Defendant, they were then in eager pursuit of the Great Heterosexual AIDS Victim. Soaps like Eastenders often stepped in with just such a fictional character where reality failed.

    “…even after having unprotected sex with their unwittingly infected spouses hundreds of times, not one of the women contracted HIV.”

    I’m skeptical. A very high percentage of these men would have been having unprotected sex. Were none of these gents getting any backdoor action? What would be the defining characteristic that kept these women from being infected by this high risk behavior? (albeit unknowingly)

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    Even occasional anal sex wouldn't mean certain transmission of the virus. People forget the huge difference in the level of sexual activity between gays and heterosexuals. I remember that some time in the 80s it was found that the average number of partners a HIV-infected homosexual man had was 1100.
    , @Joan Collins Pool Boy
    You really need to read better. Jeez.
  91. @anonymous
    Agreed, there's something really off about homos, which is an understatement. However, what then is wrong with most women who, as many can observe, just adore male homos and can't get enough of them?

    the pickup artists claim that gays are better able to “flip the script” on women since they tend to think more like women themselves and that women eat that up.

  92. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor
    "Kramer goes much much further, alleging that not only Lincoln but Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Presidents Jackson, Pierce, Buchanan and perhaps other presidents, as well as Lewis and Clarke, de Tocqueville, LaFayette, Burr, John Wilkes Booth, Samuel Clemens, George Custer, Oliver Wendell Holmes, visitors to America such as Sigmund Freud and his alleged lover Wilhelm Fliess, virtually every actor in Hollywood past and present, including one who became president, and so many others, were gay or did it with men at some point."

    Okay, time to blame the homos for slavery, genocide, wars, and everything under the sun.

    How about MLK?

    Malcolm Little’s gayness is fairly outlined in Bruce Perry’s biography. He raped a retarded white boy in Michigan and became a homosexual prostitute in NYC and Boston. He went to prison for burglarizing the home of one of his clients (William Paul Lennon) and thought that Lennon (from a prominent family) wouldn’t report it out of embarrassment. The daring “tough guy” criminal career claimed in Mr. Little’s “autobiography” is, like most key elements of this “biography”, mostly fiction (e.g. Mr. Little’s other burglarly/theft conviction was for stealing from an older sister who took him in out of pity). He was never a dashing bandit, just a sniveling little sneak.

  93. Did the CDC ever solve the grave medical mystery of why so many Haitians in the United States were coming down with AIDS, back in the day? If so, I do not recall its ever announcing the solution, since homosexuality and intravenous drug use both were claimed not to be the cause of that notable Haitian anomaly!?!

  94. @Ozymandias
    "...even after having unprotected sex with their unwittingly infected spouses hundreds of times, not one of the women contracted HIV."

    I'm skeptical. A very high percentage of these men would have been having unprotected sex. Were none of these gents getting any backdoor action? What would be the defining characteristic that kept these women from being infected by this high risk behavior? (albeit unknowingly)

    Even occasional anal sex wouldn’t mean certain transmission of the virus. People forget the huge difference in the level of sexual activity between gays and heterosexuals. I remember that some time in the 80s it was found that the average number of partners a HIV-infected homosexual man had was 1100.

  95. @Ozymandias
    "...even after having unprotected sex with their unwittingly infected spouses hundreds of times, not one of the women contracted HIV."

    I'm skeptical. A very high percentage of these men would have been having unprotected sex. Were none of these gents getting any backdoor action? What would be the defining characteristic that kept these women from being infected by this high risk behavior? (albeit unknowingly)

    You really need to read better. Jeez.

  96. @Niccolo Salo
    Some time ago, I started researching California of the 60s and 70s since so much weirdness was going on, from the Hippie Culture/Laurel Canyon to Jim Jones' Peoples Temple, the Freeway Murders, etc. and it led me to looking into the early days of HIV in San Francisco.

    Allow me to share a link of material I put together by combing the web about those early days, leaning heavily on an oral history project from Stanford which was a goldmine.

    http://salo-forum.com/index.php?threads/patient-zero-and-the-early-days-of-hiv-aids.3167/

    Think about it this way: 1970s San Francisco had Willie Brown, Harvey Milk was on City Council, Jim Jones was running his temple where he was denouncing the Bible as "fascist, racist, and homophobic" in the name of anti-racism and Marxism, and tens of thousands of walking biohazards giving each other all sorts of venereal diseases culminating in GRIDS/HIV.

    ......and it's this vision of society, 1970s San Francisco, which now dominates media and by extension, political trends.

    You would think that the opposite lessons from that decade in that city would have been learned from what has come to be accepted as the 'correct view' today.

    Do yourself a favour and read the material at the link. Eye-opening does not begin to describe it.

    Speaking of that, I'd be interested in what you saw back then in San Francisco, Thomas.

    Grace’s Law of the Counterintuitive Response is in play here:

    “…in any society that disdains truth, the reaction to any calamity that threatens its most dearly-held lies is much more of that which engendered the calamity. Only faster and harder.”

  97. @JSM
    "Oh, and thanks for killing all those hemophiliacs"

    And straight oldsters needing blood transfusions during heart surgery, like Isaac Asimov.

    So, yeah, thanks, gays, also, for killing one of America's National Treasures.

    Isaac Asimov was very much in favor of gay rights, and supported homosexuality on population control grounds.

    So perhaps he can be thought of as we might a non-smoking advocate of smokers’ rights who dies from lung cancer from second-hand smoke.

    In short, I don’t consider Asimov an innocent victim.

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    Perhaps he did not envision industrial-scale sodomy.
  98. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Glaivester
    Isaac Asimov was very much in favor of gay rights, and supported homosexuality on population control grounds.

    So perhaps he can be thought of as we might a non-smoking advocate of smokers' rights who dies from lung cancer from second-hand smoke.

    In short, I don't consider Asimov an innocent victim.

    Perhaps he did not envision industrial-scale sodomy.

  99. “Kramer goes much much further, alleging that not only Lincoln but Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Presidents Jackson, Pierce, Buchanan and perhaps other presidents, as well as Lewis and Clarke, de Tocqueville, LaFayette, Burr, John Wilkes Booth, Samuel Clemens, George Custer, Oliver Wendell Holmes, visitors to America such as Sigmund Freud and his alleged lover Wilhelm Fliess, virtually every actor in Hollywood past and present, including one who became president, and so many others, were gay or did it with men at some point.”

    “The hell he was!”

  100. @conatus
    In the seventies at work, i sat next to a gay guy who later dies of AIDs in the early eighties. He was a frequenter of the Baths and he told me stories that blew my mind. He would tell me he had sex with guys who he did not even know what they looked like, in a dimly lit, twenty by forty room full of lechy looking gays with white towels and Crisco. At first I just could not believe the monkey activity these guys were engaging in. Later, I did not doubt him.

    I think the main thing the prestige press and naive Mr. and Mrs. Suburbia don't recognize about this gay sex stuff( men only) is the obsession with random sex. These guys are monkey troupe with hard-ons, sticking it anywhere that is 98.6 degrees.The number of partners, the total anonymity of the partners, is the male sex drive unleashed from its female restraints. I was shocked but then I started to appreciate women, whose name and face I knew.

    This guy thought a lot of public figures were gay. Gerry Ford's son etc, but usually they had to be in their twenties. I don't think he went so far as to think Gerry Ford, Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan were secretly yearning for trip to the baths for old times sake.

    A disturbing thought is that this is how an all-male society might look like. Even if they weren’t gay, without women as a moderating influence, men might be on a nonstop quest to pleasure themselves with sex toys and masturbation.

    I’ve read once that the male sex drive increases while being around other men, and decreases while being around women. Which is paradoxical, but might explain the obsession of gays with sex to some degree.

    • Replies: @e
    Astute comment. We women really are useful, even as balls and chains. LOL.

    Over the years I've read a few descriptions of the bath house scenes in SF. What always strikes me about those descriptions is the mention of the lack of light. On the one hand, I suppose the dimly lit rooms made practical sense-- it was almost impossible to identify one's partners in shame so that blackmail or embarrassing next day at work scenes could be avoided.

    On the other hand, I'd have thought that since men are usually sexually aroused by visual stimuli that they would have preferred some light. The descriptions paint a scene of males (I can't call them "men," not with behavior such as this) not aroused by the sight of anything but rather by the thought of any orifice into which something could be stuck. I suppose the drugs helped the arousal and made visual stimuli unnecessary.

    .
  101. @Steve Austen
    Arthur Ashe as well.

    And straight oldsters needing blood transfusions during heart surgery, like Isaac Asimov.

    Arthur Ashe as well.

    And Tom Fogerty of CCR.

  102. Another psychological phenomenon.

    Cognitive Dissonance.

    Liberals and elites have been getting more sexually conservative since the 80’s-90’s. You can see that in some of Charles Murray’s work and anecdotal stories. Yet, none of these people will actually put down or criticize any part sexual revolution of the 1960’s or feminism. To do so would admit that their Archie Bunker type Grandparents were right after all. So, there is no message in the media now to the effect that being sexually conservative is in any way a good thing.

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    The general thinking of baby boomers seems to be to hand wave any issues regarding sexual dysfunction and social ills with "Yeah and they said the same thing about Elvis!"
  103. A better title might have been Kramer vs Kramer.

  104. @anonymous-antimarxist

    In the wake of all its recent lying, I will give credit to Rolling Stone for publishing a Greider article in the late 1980′s that explained this point.
     
    Bullsh*t!!!!

    If Rolling Stone had any decency it would lead the Cultural Marxist Media in publishing a long over due public apology to Michael "The Myth of Heterosexual Aids" Fumento. It might be a good first step in regaining its credibility after Sabrina Rubin Erdely has wiped her ass with it.

    It is really sad that one of the best contrarian investigative journalists of the last 30 years is unemployed(unemployable?) and living in Columbia.

    Go visit Fumento's website. The guy has an amazing body of work.

    Go visit Fumento’s website. The guy has an amazing body of work.

    His book is on a shelf in my office. The lies about AIDS and my introduction to the Internet were the “red pill” for me.

  105. I thought the post was about HRC.

    Loved the scene where she and Huma had lunch at a Chipotle and talked to no one. Sounds like me, but I’m not running for POTUS.

  106. Romans 1:27 And similarly, the males also, abandoning the natural use of females, have burned in their desires for one another: males doing with males what is disgraceful, and receiving within themselves the recompense that necessarily results from their error.

    Truth was said nearly 2000 years ago. I see no reason to write further on the topic of sodomites. It is only a gigantic crime against the normal majority that $30 billion of medical research is directed to curing the incurable. Incurable, because the disease is voluntary. No one is compelled beyond all control to commit sodomy and receive VD bugs.

  107. @Dave Pinsen
    1) This idea that homosexuals don't have kids is wrong. From anecdotal experience, it doesn't seem uncommon for lesbian couples to have kids using a gay male friend's donated sperm.

    2) Heterosexual intercourse doesn't just lead to law-abiding, tax-paying citizens, but also law-breaking, tax-consuming citizens.

    1) This idea that homosexuals don’t have kids is wrong. From anecdotal experience, it doesn’t seem uncommon for lesbian couples to have kids using a gay male friend’s donated sperm.

    Ah, well, let’s base public policy on your anecdotal evidence.

    2) Heterosexual intercourse doesn’t just lead to law-abiding, tax-paying citizens, but also law-breaking, tax-consuming citizens.

    In the absence of a stable family, yes. The reason that the state (and society) expend resources on enforcing marriage law is that it believes (and I believe) that stable, supportive, nuclear families are more likely to lead to law-abiding, tax-paying citizens.

    The entire point of marriage is to force the man and the woman to stay around and support all the kids.

    Given some historical evidence that same sex couple could raise kids similarly, we can start to talk about expending resource promoting it.

    To require an explanation of these points just emphasized how little people really understand exactly what marriage is.

  108. e says:
    @Astroguts
    A disturbing thought is that this is how an all-male society might look like. Even if they weren't gay, without women as a moderating influence, men might be on a nonstop quest to pleasure themselves with sex toys and masturbation.

    I've read once that the male sex drive increases while being around other men, and decreases while being around women. Which is paradoxical, but might explain the obsession of gays with sex to some degree.

    Astute comment. We women really are useful, even as balls and chains. LOL.

    Over the years I’ve read a few descriptions of the bath house scenes in SF. What always strikes me about those descriptions is the mention of the lack of light. On the one hand, I suppose the dimly lit rooms made practical sense– it was almost impossible to identify one’s partners in shame so that blackmail or embarrassing next day at work scenes could be avoided.

    On the other hand, I’d have thought that since men are usually sexually aroused by visual stimuli that they would have preferred some light. The descriptions paint a scene of males (I can’t call them “men,” not with behavior such as this) not aroused by the sight of anything but rather by the thought of any orifice into which something could be stuck. I suppose the drugs helped the arousal and made visual stimuli unnecessary.

    .

  109. @Shouting Thomas
    You call them out if you want to. I'm tired of taking the abuse from those bastards for telling them what I saw with my own eyes.

    Yes, a massive media campaign has pinned the AIDS epidemic on straight white men. All those tens of thousands of dead gay men died because homophobic mobs of straight men chased them down and murdered them.

    Hell, I know what happened. I was right in the middle of it in SF and NYC.

    You want to take the abuse, Steve... go right ahead. These bastards are murderous, insane Nazis.

    You want to take the abuse, Steve… go right ahead. These bastards are murderous, insane Nazis.

    And this is what we’re unleashing into our political culture and models of family life. Open toleration of homosexuality will have very bad effects on our political and personal lives.

  110. Larry Kramer is Exhibit A for how deeply, deeply mentally-ill people can also be incredibly high functioning. It’s true with all kinds of psychopathy, but with the mainstreaming of homosexuality we’re increasingly losing sight of that.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Larry Kramer is Exhibit A for how deeply, deeply mentally-ill people can also be incredibly high functioning.
     
    Ass-perger's Syndrome?
    , @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911
    I worked at law firm where the sole partner (Jewish female) had *honest to God* manic depressive disorder. While not a shrink - I have a friend with the illness who has been struggling with it all of her life and, without prompting, when when I described what I was dealing with she responded "1911 - she's manic depressive and tell her to take her damn meds."

    Anyway - this is how it worked: the partner would hit a manic phase, say, two or three times a week. She would try to give us instructions on what to do at short calender, what to allege in the complaint, and be in every ones faces about it. But since she was on a manic swing - some of it was just incomprehensible. It was like she thought she was speaking English, but none of really held together. Then, she would "work from home" for a few days on her depressive schedule.

    At one point, I found some stuff on the firm hard drives - where she was sending letters to the DCF alleging that her husband was beating on her daughter. Anyway - it is amazing how a crazy person can use the crazy to their advantage. Something to keep in mind, I suppose.

    Anyway - keeping with my philosophy of life, and, I suppose, a cautionary tale I got shit canned shortly because I was like "lady, yer crazy, stop it. "

  111. @Steve Sailer
    Regarding agnostic's theory: Let's use me as an average heterosexual male as a test case. Pre-puberty, I was obsessed with drawing pictures of and building models of warplanes, warships, drag racing cars, rocket ships, fighting robots, and guns. I was also obsessed with throwing balls and hitting them with sticks. I demanded from my parents for Christmas a BB gun, an archery set, and a Swiss Army knife.

    None of this seems to have much to do at all with conventional gay male lifestyles, which have more to do with my wife's pre-pubescent obsessions, like dressing up and doing her hair.

    If this is the same guy who thinks that a famous Hollywood actress is a MtF transsexual and that there’s no need for people to have computers with large screens, then he’s an idiot. I file him under “accurate as a stopped clock”.

  112. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    So this kind of subject material as well as the late Howard Zinn's History of the American People seem to have little problems finding a mainstream publisher, but Arthur Jensen and Philippe Rushton were considered to be the devil incarnate for having dared even to write about such forbidden topics as IQ differences, etc.

    Perhaps if either one of them had made it a bit more sexy or punched it up a little by including a sex scene somewhere, someplace within the research.

    By the way, whatever became of Michael Fumento's 1992 book, The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS? The one where he showed, based on the CDC'S own data that AIDS would in fact start to peak by the year 2000? Which in fact it did start to peak around that time. In fact, AIDS has never been on the top five diseases that kill most Americans and only a few times cracked the top ten. Hasn't been in the top ten in about a decade in a half.

    Another thing we're not allowed to notice.

    Sadly, AIDS may not be a major cause of death, but it does cost the taxpayer a minimum of about $65,000 per year per disease vector to “manage” with meds. The better (and more expensive!) the treatments, the longer the disease vectors are kept alive and transmitting. AIDS is almost tailor-made to produce Big Pharma profits.

    At least motorcyclists (med-speak: “donor-cycles”) have the decency to die and can be subsequently parted out for organs, thereby saving lives even as they terminate themselves by reckless behavior.

  113. @Percy Gryce
    Larry Kramer is Exhibit A for how deeply, deeply mentally-ill people can also be incredibly high functioning. It's true with all kinds of psychopathy, but with the mainstreaming of homosexuality we're increasingly losing sight of that.

    Larry Kramer is Exhibit A for how deeply, deeply mentally-ill people can also be incredibly high functioning.

    Ass-perger’s Syndrome?

  114. AIDS was so obviously a huge bright clear flashing light–of biology\nature, not the preacher man–vividly calling out homosexual’s fundamental pathology … that it just had, *had*, to be spun around to be someone else’s fault. (#1 rule of the left–nothing is ever their fault.)

    In a sane, healthy society, AIDS would have induced some retrenchment in homo liberation. The adults in the room–i.e. straight people–dictating some constraints. Closing the bath houses and sex clubs. End to flaunt-it culture. End to treating homo “activism” and political demands seriously. After all AIDS is a testament to that cornerstone of conservative truths: traditional arrangements aren’t arbitrary; traditions are “traditions” because they’ve stood the test of time; they work.

    ~~

    But—to say the least—that is not what happened! It’s hard to convey to the younger guys around here the sheer level of dis-ingenuousness. But basically the left\gays—with full on media propaganda at their back—managed to pull off the political equivalent of a judo move. Traditional notions of the gays unnatural acts—and their crude, intemperate, unchecked exercise of them—having been utterly vindicated “on the ground”, the gays managed to flip this reality politically and make themselves the “victims”. A few old dead famous fags. A few sympathetic hemophiliac kids—whom the gays were actually killing! A bunch of “wow we’ve never seen this disease before, who could have imagined such a thing?” (as VD from copious promiscuous bathhouse sex 😉 And suddenly—in our whiny feminized culture—fags were poor brave “victims”, and there were marches for AIDS, as if it was the most important problem facing humanity.

    With this a bunch of phony b.s. about “we’re all at risk”. (Which any moderately intelligent person could figure out was utter nonsense. I remember debunking this among friends and students during the year I was an Astronomy TA, so that would have been 85-86. And I could do it as a physics guy–with a bit of math and common sense–no special biological knowledge required.) No thought was ever allowed about what the fags actually did—why they had this disease. Bring that up—even simply locating this clearly and specifically in homosexual practices—was to be persona non grata. (I often wondered about all these stridently PC women—do they consider this at all? What would they say to hetro men acting this way? But it’s a complete disconnect. Women—especially young liberal women—and rational thought simply do not mix. Conventional wisdom is all that need enter their heads.)

    And there was no end to it. AIDS was put #1 on these lists of “global problems” by the great and good. AIDS—a venereal disease, a weak one at that, that is utterly harmless to the functioning of society. This #1 position of course had something to do with the “African AIDS” hysteria—where every death from a host of traditional diseases was pitched into the AIDS pot. But even if that had all been true … it’s Africa, overpopulated, and AIDS preferentially kills the dregs, and leaves the smarter and more conscientious and encourages sexual restraint. If you were a mad scientist engineering an epidemic to make things better in Africa you’d cook up something very much like it just more infectious. But that was our global great and good—AIDS as the world’s #1 problem. (Nuclear proliferation, climate change, over-population, etc. all taking a back seat.) And you can still see it. The billions from the public for ridiculously expensive drugs to keep the homosexuals alive for more bathhouse romps. The huge bloated AIDS research budget, dwarfing the numbers for diseases—basically everything but cancer—that affect millions of normal productive citizens.

    For you guys, who weren’t around … it was just surreal insanity. The homo’s AIDS propaganda effort was like a Reichstag fire every month or two. All abided and abetted by the media and swallowed whole. If you’d had any faith in rationality and good sense among our media, politicians or the public, it would have evaporated in short order. The gay emperors had no clothes, but not only did no one speak up, the public ripped off theirs and jumped into the street to march behind them.

    • Replies: @Niccolo Salo
    Solid post.

    In San Francisco the first gay subculture that got hit hard with HIV were the Leathermen who were notorious for engaging in the roughest types of gay sex. Fisters got hit the hardest.

    Interestingly enough, the researchers found out that Kaposi's Sarcoma for some reason was much more prevalent in the active half of the "fisting duo" rather than the passive individual.

    Sorry for grossing anyone out.
    , @Mr. Anon
    I remember seeing an AIDS activist on Nightline arguing to lift the ban on condom advertising on TV - this was back in 1987. Strange as it might seem to some of the younger readers here, back in the 1980s and before, there was no advertising of adult products on radio or TV - condoms, lubricants, sex-toy stores, etc. - and of course, there were no "performance enhancement drugs" back then either - not legal ones, anyway - and if there had been, there wouldn't have been ads for them. Anyway this homosexual guy on Nightline said that AIDS was taking our best and brightest young people, and I remember thinking: Really? Those creepy leather dudes? Some fashion designers? Liberace? Those are our best and brightest?

    If Africans had the PR machine that gays have behind them, Ebola-guy would be on a stamp by now.

  115. @AnotherDad
    AIDS was so obviously a huge bright clear flashing light--of biology\nature, not the preacher man--vividly calling out homosexual's fundamental pathology ... that it just had, *had*, to be spun around to be someone else's fault. (#1 rule of the left--nothing is ever their fault.)

    In a sane, healthy society, AIDS would have induced some retrenchment in homo liberation. The adults in the room--i.e. straight people--dictating some constraints. Closing the bath houses and sex clubs. End to flaunt-it culture. End to treating homo "activism" and political demands seriously. After all AIDS is a testament to that cornerstone of conservative truths: traditional arrangements aren't arbitrary; traditions are "traditions" because they've stood the test of time; they work.

    ~~

    But—to say the least—that is not what happened! It’s hard to convey to the younger guys around here the sheer level of dis-ingenuousness. But basically the left\gays—with full on media propaganda at their back—managed to pull off the political equivalent of a judo move. Traditional notions of the gays unnatural acts—and their crude, intemperate, unchecked exercise of them—having been utterly vindicated “on the ground”, the gays managed to flip this reality politically and make themselves the “victims”. A few old dead famous fags. A few sympathetic hemophiliac kids—whom the gays were actually killing! A bunch of “wow we’ve never seen this disease before, who could have imagined such a thing?” (as VD from copious promiscuous bathhouse sex ;-) And suddenly—in our whiny feminized culture—fags were poor brave "victims", and there were marches for AIDS, as if it was the most important problem facing humanity.

    With this a bunch of phony b.s. about “we’re all at risk”. (Which any moderately intelligent person could figure out was utter nonsense. I remember debunking this among friends and students during the year I was an Astronomy TA, so that would have been 85-86. And I could do it as a physics guy--with a bit of math and common sense--no special biological knowledge required.) No thought was ever allowed about what the fags actually did—why they had this disease. Bring that up—even simply locating this clearly and specifically in homosexual practices—was to be persona non grata. (I often wondered about all these stridently PC women—do they consider this at all? What would they say to hetro men acting this way? But it’s a complete disconnect. Women—especially young liberal women—and rational thought simply do not mix. Conventional wisdom is all that need enter their heads.)

    And there was no end to it. AIDS was put #1 on these lists of “global problems” by the great and good. AIDS—a venereal disease, a weak one at that, that is utterly harmless to the functioning of society. This #1 position of course had something to do with the “African AIDS” hysteria—where every death from a host of traditional diseases was pitched into the AIDS pot. But even if that had all been true … it’s Africa, overpopulated, and AIDS preferentially kills the dregs, and leaves the smarter and more conscientious and encourages sexual restraint. If you were a mad scientist engineering an epidemic to make things better in Africa you’d cook up something very much like it just more infectious. But that was our global great and good—AIDS as the world’s #1 problem. (Nuclear proliferation, climate change, over-population, etc. all taking a back seat.) And you can still see it. The billions from the public for ridiculously expensive drugs to keep the homosexuals alive for more bathhouse romps. The huge bloated AIDS research budget, dwarfing the numbers for diseases—basically everything but cancer—that affect millions of normal productive citizens.

    For you guys, who weren’t around … it was just surreal insanity. The homo’s AIDS propaganda effort was like a Reichstag fire every month or two. All abided and abetted by the media and swallowed whole. If you’d had any faith in rationality and good sense among our media, politicians or the public, it would have evaporated in short order. The gay emperors had no clothes, but not only did no one speak up, the public ripped off theirs and jumped into the street to march behind them.

    Solid post.

    In San Francisco the first gay subculture that got hit hard with HIV were the Leathermen who were notorious for engaging in the roughest types of gay sex. Fisters got hit the hardest.

    Interestingly enough, the researchers found out that Kaposi’s Sarcoma for some reason was much more prevalent in the active half of the “fisting duo” rather than the passive individual.

    Sorry for grossing anyone out.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Interestingly enough, the researchers found out that Kaposi’s Sarcoma for some reason was much more prevalent in the active half of the “fisting duo” rather than the passive individual.

     

    The fister exposes his skin to his partner, the fistee doesn't. So, yes, a skin sarcoma would favor the former.

    Sorry for grossing anyone out.
     
    Don't worry. The weakest stomachs stopped reading after "San Cramfisto".
  116. @Percy Gryce
    Larry Kramer is Exhibit A for how deeply, deeply mentally-ill people can also be incredibly high functioning. It's true with all kinds of psychopathy, but with the mainstreaming of homosexuality we're increasingly losing sight of that.

    I worked at law firm where the sole partner (Jewish female) had *honest to God* manic depressive disorder. While not a shrink – I have a friend with the illness who has been struggling with it all of her life and, without prompting, when when I described what I was dealing with she responded “1911 – she’s manic depressive and tell her to take her damn meds.”

    Anyway – this is how it worked: the partner would hit a manic phase, say, two or three times a week. She would try to give us instructions on what to do at short calender, what to allege in the complaint, and be in every ones faces about it. But since she was on a manic swing – some of it was just incomprehensible. It was like she thought she was speaking English, but none of really held together. Then, she would “work from home” for a few days on her depressive schedule.

    At one point, I found some stuff on the firm hard drives – where she was sending letters to the DCF alleging that her husband was beating on her daughter. Anyway – it is amazing how a crazy person can use the crazy to their advantage. Something to keep in mind, I suppose.

    Anyway – keeping with my philosophy of life, and, I suppose, a cautionary tale I got shit canned shortly because I was like “lady, yer crazy, stop it. “

  117. @Name Withheld
    Another psychological phenomenon.

    Cognitive Dissonance.

    Liberals and elites have been getting more sexually conservative since the 80's-90's. You can see that in some of Charles Murray's work and anecdotal stories. Yet, none of these people will actually put down or criticize any part sexual revolution of the 1960's or feminism. To do so would admit that their Archie Bunker type Grandparents were right after all. So, there is no message in the media now to the effect that being sexually conservative is in any way a good thing.

    The general thinking of baby boomers seems to be to hand wave any issues regarding sexual dysfunction and social ills with “Yeah and they said the same thing about Elvis!”

  118. In light of our current what have you with Sabrina Rubin and Rolling Stone, here’s an article that drove homosexuals absolutely apeshit regarding the phenomenon of bug chasing and gift giving.

    http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/in-search-of-death-20030206

    The cultmarx/leftist spin on this dementia has to be seen to be believed, but somehow it (surprise!) is the fault of straight white male bigots.

  119. @Niccolo Salo
    Solid post.

    In San Francisco the first gay subculture that got hit hard with HIV were the Leathermen who were notorious for engaging in the roughest types of gay sex. Fisters got hit the hardest.

    Interestingly enough, the researchers found out that Kaposi's Sarcoma for some reason was much more prevalent in the active half of the "fisting duo" rather than the passive individual.

    Sorry for grossing anyone out.

    Interestingly enough, the researchers found out that Kaposi’s Sarcoma for some reason was much more prevalent in the active half of the “fisting duo” rather than the passive individual.

    The fister exposes his skin to his partner, the fistee doesn’t. So, yes, a skin sarcoma would favor the former.

    Sorry for grossing anyone out.

    Don’t worry. The weakest stomachs stopped reading after “San Cramfisto”.

  120. Ted says: • Website
    @fredyetagain aka superhonky
    "And not just men they had sex with, around 10,000 hemophiliacs contracted AIDS due to a tainted blood supply."

    Homosexuals reaping the consequences of their vile behavior never bothered me, but innocents (e.g., hemophiliacs) contracting the disease always really pissed me off. And I seem to recall that some of these really degenerate homosexuals were purposely, knowingly tainting the blood supply, or at least threatening to. What utter scum.

    Recently unearthed documents show that the drug company Bayer sold millions of dollars worth of an injectable blood-clotting medicine — Factor VIII concentrate, intended for hemophiliacs — to Asian, Latin American, and some European countries in the mid-1980s, although they knew that it was tainted with AIDS.

    The company stopped selling the drug in the United States in 1984, but continued to sell it overseas for an additional year.

    Records show that the company continued to sell the medicine overseas in an attempt to avoid being left with a large stock of a drug that was no longer marketable in the United States. The dangers of the drug had become well-known domestically, but the news was slower to reach other parts of the world.

    However, Bayer also continued to manufacture the medicine for several months after pulling it from the market in the United States, because it was cheaper to produce than the new, safer product they were introducing as a replacement.

    FDA regulators helped to keep the continued sales hidden, asking the company that the problem be ‘‘quietly solved without alerting the Congress, the medical community and the public,‘‘ according to the minutes of a 1985 meeting.

    articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2006/08/05/bayer-sells-aids-infected-drug-banned-in-us-in-europe-asia.aspx

  121. HIV probably does not cause AIDS. That’s if HIV even exists as a valid wild exogenic retrovirus. Anyways, as Luc Montagnier, the man who discovered this alleged virus states: You can be infected many times with HIV and if you are healthy, your body will clear it out.

    I’m certainly not an AIDS denialist, I just doubt there is anything more than a correlation, a bad one at that, between HIV and AIDS. like duesberg and well, pretty much every one on this thread; I believe the horrendously excessive and perverse sex lives of homosexuals in the 60s, 70s and 80s caused the widespread death-rates.

    Gallo only found 36% of his AIDS patients test positive for “HIV”. This whole thing has been a sordid money sucking mess. we’ve spent nearly a trillion dollars on a hole that has lead nowhere except even greater corruption of medical science ever imagined.

    Luc Montagnier “yes, an AIDS-ridden African can be healed”

  122. @AnotherDad
    AIDS was so obviously a huge bright clear flashing light--of biology\nature, not the preacher man--vividly calling out homosexual's fundamental pathology ... that it just had, *had*, to be spun around to be someone else's fault. (#1 rule of the left--nothing is ever their fault.)

    In a sane, healthy society, AIDS would have induced some retrenchment in homo liberation. The adults in the room--i.e. straight people--dictating some constraints. Closing the bath houses and sex clubs. End to flaunt-it culture. End to treating homo "activism" and political demands seriously. After all AIDS is a testament to that cornerstone of conservative truths: traditional arrangements aren't arbitrary; traditions are "traditions" because they've stood the test of time; they work.

    ~~

    But—to say the least—that is not what happened! It’s hard to convey to the younger guys around here the sheer level of dis-ingenuousness. But basically the left\gays—with full on media propaganda at their back—managed to pull off the political equivalent of a judo move. Traditional notions of the gays unnatural acts—and their crude, intemperate, unchecked exercise of them—having been utterly vindicated “on the ground”, the gays managed to flip this reality politically and make themselves the “victims”. A few old dead famous fags. A few sympathetic hemophiliac kids—whom the gays were actually killing! A bunch of “wow we’ve never seen this disease before, who could have imagined such a thing?” (as VD from copious promiscuous bathhouse sex ;-) And suddenly—in our whiny feminized culture—fags were poor brave "victims", and there were marches for AIDS, as if it was the most important problem facing humanity.

    With this a bunch of phony b.s. about “we’re all at risk”. (Which any moderately intelligent person could figure out was utter nonsense. I remember debunking this among friends and students during the year I was an Astronomy TA, so that would have been 85-86. And I could do it as a physics guy--with a bit of math and common sense--no special biological knowledge required.) No thought was ever allowed about what the fags actually did—why they had this disease. Bring that up—even simply locating this clearly and specifically in homosexual practices—was to be persona non grata. (I often wondered about all these stridently PC women—do they consider this at all? What would they say to hetro men acting this way? But it’s a complete disconnect. Women—especially young liberal women—and rational thought simply do not mix. Conventional wisdom is all that need enter their heads.)

    And there was no end to it. AIDS was put #1 on these lists of “global problems” by the great and good. AIDS—a venereal disease, a weak one at that, that is utterly harmless to the functioning of society. This #1 position of course had something to do with the “African AIDS” hysteria—where every death from a host of traditional diseases was pitched into the AIDS pot. But even if that had all been true … it’s Africa, overpopulated, and AIDS preferentially kills the dregs, and leaves the smarter and more conscientious and encourages sexual restraint. If you were a mad scientist engineering an epidemic to make things better in Africa you’d cook up something very much like it just more infectious. But that was our global great and good—AIDS as the world’s #1 problem. (Nuclear proliferation, climate change, over-population, etc. all taking a back seat.) And you can still see it. The billions from the public for ridiculously expensive drugs to keep the homosexuals alive for more bathhouse romps. The huge bloated AIDS research budget, dwarfing the numbers for diseases—basically everything but cancer—that affect millions of normal productive citizens.

    For you guys, who weren’t around … it was just surreal insanity. The homo’s AIDS propaganda effort was like a Reichstag fire every month or two. All abided and abetted by the media and swallowed whole. If you’d had any faith in rationality and good sense among our media, politicians or the public, it would have evaporated in short order. The gay emperors had no clothes, but not only did no one speak up, the public ripped off theirs and jumped into the street to march behind them.

    I remember seeing an AIDS activist on Nightline arguing to lift the ban on condom advertising on TV – this was back in 1987. Strange as it might seem to some of the younger readers here, back in the 1980s and before, there was no advertising of adult products on radio or TV – condoms, lubricants, sex-toy stores, etc. – and of course, there were no “performance enhancement drugs” back then either – not legal ones, anyway – and if there had been, there wouldn’t have been ads for them. Anyway this homosexual guy on Nightline said that AIDS was taking our best and brightest young people, and I remember thinking: Really? Those creepy leather dudes? Some fashion designers? Liberace? Those are our best and brightest?

    If Africans had the PR machine that gays have behind them, Ebola-guy would be on a stamp by now.

    • Replies: @Steve Austen
    Wrong 1%?
  123. You’re making things too complicated with talk about “displacement” and “projection.” I doubt leftists deep down feel guilty for anything. Their delusion is total and they’re just hateful because they are screwed up people and take it out on others.

    “Projection” isn’t complicated, and it isn’t tied to guilt in the sense that it’s a reality – the assumption that others’ mental universe is your own; most often seen in people taking harmless words as insult (because that’s what’s on their mind).

    In a previous thread it was mentioned that there was no good argument against gay marriage.

    The fact that it’s an oxymoron is an extremely good argument against it. The fact that homosexuals have always had exactly the same “marriage rights” as everyone else is another.

    Liberals like to say the most outspoken homophobes have hidden homosexual desires.

    Sounds like projection; liberals are conflicted about homosexuality. They still can’t decide if it’s praise or an insult, and they still use it as both.

    Freud could not have been the first person to notice projection. The concept is so simple and obvious that it must have been discovered billions of times in the course of mundane conversations. You don’t have to praise Freud every time you notice projection, Steve.

    The Telltale Heart, written before Freud was born, is right next to Projection, if not right on top of it. It’s (guilt-driven, I admit) projection as horror story.

    The blogger “agnostic” at akinokure.blogspot.com characterizes male homosexuality as arrested cognitive development in boyhood, around the “girls have cooties” stage. People mistake the neotenous behavior of gay men as “effeminate” because normal adult women display more childlike characteristics than normal adult men. But gay men don’t show any female nurturing behavior. Instead they behave like Peter Pan who went through puberty physically but not cognitively, and he wants to stick his penis into other males for sexual release because the female body disgusts him.

    This “girls have cooties stage”/”female bodies disgust him” thing seems very strange to me. Is it a real thing, for some heterosexual males? I always figured it was an urban myth or a fairy tale (pun intended).

  124. @Mr. Anon
    I remember seeing an AIDS activist on Nightline arguing to lift the ban on condom advertising on TV - this was back in 1987. Strange as it might seem to some of the younger readers here, back in the 1980s and before, there was no advertising of adult products on radio or TV - condoms, lubricants, sex-toy stores, etc. - and of course, there were no "performance enhancement drugs" back then either - not legal ones, anyway - and if there had been, there wouldn't have been ads for them. Anyway this homosexual guy on Nightline said that AIDS was taking our best and brightest young people, and I remember thinking: Really? Those creepy leather dudes? Some fashion designers? Liberace? Those are our best and brightest?

    If Africans had the PR machine that gays have behind them, Ebola-guy would be on a stamp by now.

    Wrong 1%?

  125. @JSM
    "Oh, and thanks for killing all those hemophiliacs"

    And straight oldsters needing blood transfusions during heart surgery, like Isaac Asimov.

    So, yeah, thanks, gays, also, for killing one of America's National Treasures.

    Also my grandmother, who broke her hip in a supermarket and died of AIDS following a tainted blood transfusion.

  126. @Anonymous
    Hell, I know what happened. I was right in the middle of it in SF and NYC.

    What happened?

    Even after Hurricane Sandy most gays couldn’t stay out of the Bathhouses long enough for them to be cleaned up properly leading to a meningitis outbreak in the NYC gay community. Also people with nice cloths who had a weeks warning ended up dumpster diving for food 2 days post storm because they couldn’t plan ahead and get a box of Granola in case the lights went out. Nanny Bloomers turning away the national guard didn’t help matters either.

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