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From the L.A. Times:
Noel Ignatiev, scholar who called for abolishing whiteness, dies at 78
Noel Ignatiev’s 1995 book “How the Irish Became White” was influential and controversial, touching off a firestorm of debate.
By SEWELL CHAN DEPUTY MANAGING EDITOR, NEWS
NOV. 11, 2019 4:51 PM… Ignatiev’s best-known book, “How the Irish Became White,” was immediately influential and controversial upon its publication in 1995. It touched off a firestorm of debate at the time at academic conferences and in the pages of newspapers. In time his view that whiteness is a social and political construction — and not a phenomenon with a biological basis — has become mainstream. The resurgence of white identity politics and white nationalism in recent years made Ignatiev’s arguments relevant to a new generation of readers who argued the notion that race is more about power and privilege rather than about ancestry, or even identity.
The book detailed how the Irish, who had first come to North America as indentured servants and were reviled by the more settled populations of English and Dutch Americans, became, by the mid-19th century, accepted as white. Sadly, Ignatiev argued, the Irish became incorporated into whiteness just before the Civil War, through support for slavery and violence against free African Americans. To become white, Ignatiev wrote, did not mean to be middle class, much less rich, but rather to be accepted as equal citizens and to have access to the same neighborhoods, schools and jobs as others.
But what about getting into the snootiest country clubs, huh? The Irish weren’t truly white until they could get into Chicago Golf Club and Myopia Hunt instead of just Winged Foot and Beverly.
Ignatiev’s argument touched off fierce debates; critics argued that he went too far in conflating racial and class privilege. He went on to found and co-edit a journal, known as Race Traitor, whose motto was “Treason to whiteness is loyalty to humanity.” His ideas seemed extreme for the time; critics called Ignatiev — who was Jewish — divisive, even self-hating.
At a 1997 conference at UC Berkeley, on “The Making and Unmaking of Whiteness,” Ignatiev argued that “whiteness is not a culture but a privilege and exists for no reason other than to defend it.”
“You’re white,” a New York Times interviewer asked Ignatiev in 1997. “Do you hate your own hide?”
Ignatiev replied; “No, but I want to abolish the privileges of the white skin. The white race is like a private club based on one huge assumption: that all those who look white are, whatever their complaints or reservations, fundamentally loyal to the race. We want to dissolve the club, to explode it.”
Ignatiev urged white people: “Be reverse Oreos. Defy the rules of whiteness — flagrantly, publicly. When someone makes a racial slur in your presence, say, ‘You probably think I’m white because I look white.’ Challenge behaviors that reproduce race distinctions.”
Heavily influenced by Marxism, Ignatiev said the journal’s purpose was to chronicle and analyze the making, remaking and unmaking of whiteness.
https://mobile.twitter.com/WonderDoge1/status/1194093422774300674
Just, you know, don’t take it too far…..
America is a land of linguistic poverty. The Irish were always considered ‘white’, what we mean is how the Irish became considered part of ‘core’ America or no longer an outgroup, essentially assimilated. Today that has become ‘white’ America.
But prior to that, the Irish were considered by a still largely WASP America to be an alien foreign outgroup with different mores and a different religion and culture not to mention being ethnically (But not racially) alien, principally because they were. The term ‘race’ was used to denote lots of scales of common ancestry and would have been applied to groups we wouldn’t consider different ‘races’ today, like the Anglo-Saxon ‘race’ and Irish ‘race’ as well as Europeans and Sub-Saharan Africans. My suspcion is that the author was able to find enough quotes by notable people using the term ‘Irish race’ to base a whole book on pretending that the Irish weren’t seen as ‘white’ rather than that the Irish weren’t seen as Anglo-Saxon or American.
This is really silly and the author of the book knows it.
The last issue of Race Traitor appears to be anti-Zionist, even publishing Israel Shamir…
https://thecharnelhouse.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Race-Traitor-%E2%84%96-16-Winter-2005.pdf
Unlike, say, Chuck Schumer, at least he was consistent.
This is how the majority of scholars think
https://mobile.twitter.com/JustinMoss
Also watch this
You heard it from the man himself, there’s an Unlimited Pass to use the N-word.
I was thinking more along the lines of auditing whiteness aka “culling the herd”.
Ignatiev has finally abolished his own whiteness. RIPOC.
You really couldn’t top his name– “Christmas, son of Loyola”.
We need a name for that permanent wave. How about “Spokane-delabra”?
Ignatiev is woke to the fact that Israel is the world’s last viable white nation. Herzl’s project, Arendt’s “best of German Jewry”, is the world’s last quintessentially 19th century European nationstate, a levee en masse of citizen-soldiers conducting populist realpolitik and machtpolitik.
White gentile nations’ middling IQs, love of sportsball, and ecumenical flights of fancy lay them bare to utter destruction by waves and waves of virile barbarians from the camp of the saints.
Judea’s forbidding barriers to genetic inflow – high IQ, pervasive collective and individual neuroses, arcane and annoying ritual practices – prove a more organically effective barrier to cultural invasion and genetic dilution than any gentile efforts or values systems, so that Judea will remain the world’s last tribe of the sharp featured and white skinned.
Speaking of not white. When reading the by-line quickly, I can’t tell where the name ends and the title begins.
How many handles does Tiny Duck get to use? How many?
So, when Charles Carroll of Carrollton signed the Declaration of Independence, he was just passing for White?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Carroll_of_Carrollton
“His ideas seemed extreme for the time; critics called Ignatiev — who was Jewish — divisive, even self-hating.”
Every single time.
And I assure you he was not self-hating.
Aaaahhhhhh!
I find it fascinating that short term “Americans”, welcomed into this amazing country, thought they understood the country better than with long heritage.
They seemed to just have been motivated to exploit the good natures of Americans and act in support of their own interests……
Better end all immigration and kick out a bunch of folks….
People often ask me if I’m part Irish but only a few of my mother’s side had Irish roots including one “Morris”….
OT: Steve here is an interesting study about the risk of a total human population extinction on earth as being a “1 in 14k possibility”
They include risks like nuclear war, climate change(who knows), asteroid impacts, volcanic eruptions etc as among the causes…..
I’m surprised they didnt include pandemics….
Stephen King’s “The Stand” comes to mind…..whats your take?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7673963/Humans-1-14-000-chances-going-extinct-year-getting-struck-lightning.html
Best damn news I’ve heard all day.
Well, all week.
Actually, probably in a long time.
Ignatiev helped give SPLC narratives a patina of prestige. Glad he’s gone. Fascinating to see how his Irish victim thesis was intended to drive wedges among Whites and Christians and create an early Anti-Protestant Coalition of the Fringes. This tactic has been used by the political left in Australia, Canada, and in New England, New York state. Even today, the secular & Jewish heavy open borders NGOs in Britain & the US use the same tactics. They straw man a widespread, cruel anti-Catholic animus by pre-1850 citizens against the post 1870 Non-Protestant migrant cohort. Strawman, inflame petty grievances, divide & conquer.
The truth is that All European peoples are under attack by Soros-aligned Anti-White activists. If we stand together, we can fend them off and save Western Civ from their Camp of the Saints agenda.
If the Wiki biography of this man is accurate, it’s another piece of evidence toward the thesis that American history is a meretricious subdiscipline and that a conscientious institution my save the tuition payers a few bucks by putting these people out on the curb.
Yup.spot on.this.
I’m with you on the “ecumenical flights of fancy”. Unfortunately, I’m under attack by an ecumenical hallucinator turned full-blown psychotic over my blunt comments about Mormons colonizing modern day Mexico. I’m not certain a Mormon is the culprit however.
Imagine creating a cancer to weaken your host so you can bend it to your will, but it instead becomes so virulent it ends up infecting you as well…
Diversity in Israel: Lessons for the United States: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/diversity-in-israel-lessons-for-the-united-states/
Welcome to Tel Aviv, the gayest city on earth: https://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/travel/2016/03/17/welcome-tel-aviv-gayest-city-earth/y9V15VazXhtSjXVSo9gT9K/story.html
Transgender? Judaism’s got a blessing for you: https://www.timesofisrael.com/transgender-judaisms-got-a-blessing-for-you/
Israel’s IDF Allows Transgender Soldiers: https://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/transgender-military-soldiers-idf/2017/07/26/id/803899/
Shalom, Moishe! And good luck with all that…
Whiteness is still around. Noel Ignatieff, on the other hand, has been abolished.
I’ve considered going a bit farther and letting students take appropriately designed standardized tests to get their liberal arts degrees.
Israel’s admirable birthrate is more than enough to make up for all the guys and gals lost to the transgenders and gays. Israel is realistic about modernity’s genie out of the bottle – accept that it will never go back into the bottle, but accomodate it and bend around it like the water, like a Taoist.
High IQ, IQ realism, and respect for IQ together really constitute the Israelite’s secret weapon for cultural cohesion. In this country a leading aspiration for any dumb blonde daddy’s girl is to throw herself on a strapping black athlete to churn out mulatto babies. In previous iSteve threads we discussed how women seizing control of society has worsened things for the nerdy men. Among Jews there is still a respect for the nebbish, gaunt-skinned ghetto dwelling scholar-type and the desire to see him father babies in accordance with God’s commandments to Abraham. In yenta circles a strapping and illiterate black buck stands no chance against Shlomo the cybersecurity nerd, for example.
I’ll be busting out the wine tonight.
Correct. Whatever they may have thought about the Irish, Italians, etc., in the past is immaterial. What matters is that in the 21st century they all are consider too White and in need of cultural enrichment and replacement.
There are no takers among White men for that garbage. White women sure. They love to fantasize about being a Kardashian.
What’s the upside for a White man? Most can’t pass for non White and all they end up as is bottom of the barrel.
Real White supremacy on the other hand makes even Joe Average White guy into a big swaggering dick compared to Praheet, Chen, Mohamned and D’Brickashaw. Which means he not rappers get all the hot chicks.
Wow sexless abasement. Outside of Ed Buck who’ll buy?
If America were a healthy society we would have used the massacre as a pretext to invade Mexico to drive out its people and steal its land for American settlement. Instead we are a completely demoralized society and we actively desire for Mexicans to inherit our land and bury our dying carcasses.
A few societies like Switzerland or Korea can run the paleocon hermit kingdom model and not be a nuisance to anybody and build a wall around their own quaint monocultures. For as dramatic a people as the Anglo-Saxons, we spill over frontiers to countries, continents, and even moons and planets vis a vis Cecil Rhodes — or we direct all our collective aggression inward and commit cultural and physical suicide. We are bipolar like that, there is no middle ground.
If I were still a cigar smoker, I’d be lighting one of these tonight:
https://www.cigarsinternational.com/p/padron-1926-series-cigars/1474727/
Are you Anglo Saxon? There aren’t many on this blog. Mostly Jews pretending to hate themselves and the Asians they marry hang out here.
8 signatories to the Declaration of Independence were Irish POP (People of Potato) and at least 3 signatories to the US Constitution were non-Whites. Impressive.
Let’s not forget, Andrew Jackson, the first POP President.
Ignatiev wants white people to act like flagrant Uh-Oh Oreos.
What could go wrong?
Were any of them catholic?
You exaggerate. The Irish were only considered “alien” in a select few established, tony Northeastern cities. They were instantly embraced in the cities of the South and Midwest and West, as much as Germans, French, Scots and Scandinavians. Their Catholicism wasn’t a huge issue until the 20th century, when Americans became more religious. (Coincided with Prohibition, obviously) Plus they didn’t generally live in the small towns where religion dominated the social scene, anyway. The small numbers of those who happened to end up in such places probably converted.
There never was a real unified concept of Anglo Saxon America. Even looking at the half of my family that were around dating back to the 1600s/1700s, there were many French, German and Swiss immigrants marrying into the British colonial families.
America is simply a Western Euro pioneer/settler nation.
Yes, the signatory of the Declaration of Independence from Maryland was a Catholic of Irish heritage, Charles Carroll of Carrollton. If you ever ride the Orange Line on the DC Metro, the last stop, New Carrollton, is named after him.
Yes, Ignatiev’s actual argument was exactly what you describe (the eventual acceptance into White society), not a literal historical claim. But most people have interpreted the title of the book as a literal historical claim and it is now a common misconception that the Irish weren’t considered to be White until fairly recently. Mr. Ignatiev didn’t seem to be very concerned with correcting this misunderstanding. In fact, it’s almost as if his intention was to mislead.
One of Noel Ignatiev’s primary sources.
OT: Florida suffers from Mexican-style fuel theft run by Mexican gangs. I knew the criminals were Mexicans even before Mexican names popped up. Whites just don’t do this sort of thing.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/crime/fl-ne-fuel-theft-south-florida-credit-card-fraud-20191111-iyhiq7hyf5fabpvj3hc2jo2jce-story.html
You take in foreign people, you get their bizarre foreign crimes.
One of the ironic things about Ignatiev & those complicit in promotion of Irish Victimology is that they seem to have contributed to the ongoing demise of Ireland. The mind viruses they peddle work like this:
-Irish migrants were treated like 2nd Class citizens in the US & in British colonies
-Irish learned from this mistreatment & now know best how to be open, enlightened, compassionate etc.
-Ireland is welcoming to all 3rd World migrants. To exclude (or demand assimilation by) migrants would be to repeat the xenophobic cruelties inflicted upon Irish migrants in the 19th Century by evil upper crust English Americans.
The widespread damage to Western civilization by promoting Ignatiev’s stereotype of the cruel WASP xenophobe is immense. You see this stereotype recycled all the time in film & tv…the most notorious being the high class accents of the greedy & ruthless characters like Cal Hockley & Bruce Ismay in the film Titanic.
Ignatiev heaped scorn on Whites, but it’s silly to say he was “self-hating” for doing so. If anything, that is the mark of a self-loving Jew.
We Jews do not consider ourselves “White” in anything beyond skin color. And, as everyone knows, beyond skin color “White” means “European, Christian races” who have persecuted us poor Jews for millennia.
Now, that’s not to say Ingatiev didn’t masquerade as White, as in “Dear Fellow Whites…” in order to sow his discord and hate. Of course he did.
The sooner my Fellow Jews acknowledge this game, the better.
If America were a healthy society we would have used the massacre as a pretext to invade Mexico to drive out its people and steal its land for American settlement.
Your LARPing is funny. Your ignorance is sad.
https://infogalactic.com/info/Battle_of_Columbus_(1916)
https://infogalactic.com/info/Pancho_Villa_Expedition
Or maybe “Explosion in a Mattress Factory”.
Andrew Jackson was descended from Presbyterian Ulster Scots.
I’m not sure what you mean by “instantly embraced”. There was very little Irish immigration to the South, and there were nativist riots against the Irish in places like St. Louis back when it was considered the “West”:
https://www.stltoday.com/news/archives/a-look-back-irish-immigrants-fight-back-in-nativist-riots/article_78dee830-3ae0-51e0-b711-86de17d1d2d9.html
The cruel WASP stereotype has always been a Hollywood trope. It did increase after the deceased’s co-ethnics became dominant in movies.
For the time, yes. Now it’s the kind of thing District Attorneys say:
https://wearemitu.com/things-that-matter/chesa-boudin-white-supremacy/
Jackson was Scots-Irish.
Except for Charles Carroll, all those signatories were actually Scots-Irish.
Carroll himself was actually only a quarter Irish.
As a Catholic, Carroll could not vote, practice law, or hold office in Maryland until the Revolution. Despite being originally founded as a haven for Catholics, Maryland was taken over by Protestants who imposed anti-Catholic legislation.
Yup. (((They))) also work the other side of the aisle simultaneously, inculcating into their Rapture-Zionist protestant minions–such as John Hagee–a fierce hatred of Catholics. Leave no stone unturned!
If Corvy suddenly stops posting here, that’ll tell us all we need to know. 👌
More proof that only the good die young. If only there were a God in Heaven….
There you go again, Noel. To paraphrase Death from “The Meaning of Life”, you’re dead now, so STFU.
I seem to remember the Scottish hometown of the Titanic officer demonised in Cameron’s film were particularly upset, he was regarded as a hero due to his actual actions on the night of the sinking. Of course the people hardest hit by the sinking were the people of Southampton, most of the crew were from there and they were the ones who went down with the ship.
Brits think a hundred miles is a long distance. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
“Heavily influenced by Marxism”
The entire inter-sectional movement is just a bunch of Marxists.
Think it’s incumbent on Mr. Sailer to give Ignatiev’s book the same treatment he gave Edward Said’s book Orientalism, Jared Diamond’s Guns, Germs and Steel and Michel Foucault’s body of work in Taki’s. Would fit well in his project of reviewing some of these big intellectual forerunners of today’s conventional wisdom.
This would be more like a retrospective since Sailer sort of reviewed Ignatiev’s book on the Irish in 2002 just like he did Diamond’s book in the 90’s:
https://vdare.com/articles/the-whiteness-studies-status-game
Would the early Irish in America be racially different than the post potato famine Irish? More Norman and English rather than Celt. Would American be less likely to accept upper crust Irish nobility or Cromwell’s army decendants?
And when Thomas Jefferson needed to send a message to some nasty muslems,he didnt hesitate to send Presley O’Bannon!
Message de-freakin-livered!
“I am here,” says O’Bannon,”to have a drop o’ whiskey,and kick some muzzie ass and I am all out of whiskey.”
Satan? Open up…
An assertion of a completely made up factoid – which seems to mostly be what you do around here.
Perhaps because of my Irish ancestry, I didn’t even know this fancy pants “Myopia Hunt” club even existed.
I need to run to the mirror and check my complexion.
Was Ignatiev by any chance Jewish?
“Nah, it’s Nietzsche who is dead.” –God
Jews in the West tended to harbor a lot of self-hatred. I suppose that when you belong to a tiny hated minority (but physically not that different from the host population) you have an unconscious desire to join the majority (given these twisted feelings it’s no wonder psychoanalysis was invented by Jews). Now, I wonder how much of the current culture is this traditional self-hatred spreading to Anglo and other Northern European people, who traditionally had a healthy view of themselves
Please note, the hideous guy was not all bad.
“Myopia Hunt” sounds like some some sort of venue for jocks out of “Revenge of the Nerds”!
Lame as it sounds, the club was actually named by vision-challenged members!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myopia_Hunt_Club
“The name “Myopia” is due to some of its founding members having come from the Myopia Club in Winchester, Massachusetts, which had been founded by four brothers with poor vision, or myopia.”
Remember Suzanne Somers from Three’s Company? She is Irish.
There was never a time when a woman like her walked down the street and anyone thought she was anything but a White woman. I think the fella who wrote this book is a wee bit dishonest and had an agenda.
The Irish were always white.
From Who Are We, by Samuel Huntington, exploring identity in America:
There was bitter antagonism towards the Irish, but they were absolutely considered white.
Throughout history, there are frequently two very similar groups involved in a vicious bitter feud. Europe was scarred by different sects of Christians warring against each other. The Nazis allied with the completely alien Japanese to war against Jewish Germans who often didn’t even realize that they were different. In Africa, the Tutsis vs the Hutus is another famous example, where outsiders would lump them together in the same group.
“Heavily influenced by Marxism, Ignatiev said the journal’s purpose was to chronicle and analyze the making, remaking and unmaking of whiteness.”
Ya think? As per his Wiki bio:
“Under the name Noel Ignatin, he joined the Communist Party USA in January 1958, but in August left (along with Theodore W. Allen and Harry Haywood) to help form the Provisional Organizing Committee to Reconstitute the Marxist–Leninist Communist Party (POC).”
I for one have never cared for the use of the words “white” and “black.” The Indians–er, I mean “Native Americans”, had it right when they called us “palefaces.” I am of German/Irish descent and I know Oriental people who are as “white” as I. Similarly I know several people who are from India and whose skin is as dark if not darker than that of the stereotypical “black” (read “African-American”), but their similarity to the latter begins and ends with skin color. And on and on. Put this way, skin color, standing alone, is a mere phenotype, nothing more or less.
To the extent that I even know what the hell the phrase even means, what this all has to do with “social and political construction” I have no clue
The points in his book were well taken. WASP America was as contemptuous of the Irish as some are today of Muslims, and for the same reason: they were of alien blood (Celts) with a loathsome religion (Romanism) and their values were not America’s values. Their Pope was the very byword for a dictatorial enemy of freedom (well, that did kinda get that one right) and many feared the new immigrants might be his shock troops sent to enslave America.
I have read antebellum American periodicals extensively. The staple of the humor columns is mocking blacks, Irishmen, and Germans. The intermarriages of the first two were an endless series of amusement in particular. This is because the Irish were not welcomed on Beacon Hill or at Gramercy Park, but moved into black neighborhoods where they naturally formed close social bonds with the inhabitants.
A big part of the trick for the Irish of “becoming white” was to embrace American racist attitudes toward their dark-skinned neighbors in order to be deemed acceptable by the WASP establishment. This enmity was encouraged in no small part by cynical Yankee capitalists who imported newly freed slaves northward in droves as strikebreakers, when grotesquely exploited Irish urban laborers took advantage of the manpower shortages of the Civil War to organize and demand decent wages and working conditions.
The universe certainly has a sense of humor: this worthless piece of kyke garbage who nearly single-handedly brought racial animosity nationwide against white people actually died November 9th, on the 81st anniversary of Kristallnacht.
Rot in hell, Ignatiev!
His (((kind))) are assiduously dedicated to the continual peddling of mind viruses.
They even study how literal deadly viruses reproduce in order to gain insights on how to do it effectively. Think I’m trolling? Recall how HIV reproduces, for example. It infects the one cell designed to take it out — the “Helper T Cell” — and “converts” that cell into an HIV manufacturing plant, so to speak. Just like queers and pedos do in open sight in society today.
Please don’t waste my time with such suggestions ever again.
Yes, I think the Ignatiev theory is silly and probably an intentional misinterpretation of the historical record.
It’s just the case that a residual notion of the caste system of the “home nations” was imported to the new world by settlers from the “home nations” with English members of the Church of England at the pinnacle. (As some have argued tongue-in-cheek, England is the longest foreign occupied nation on Earth, remaining under the thumb of Norman invaders since Hastings). Scottish Presbyterians, finding their way to Ireland and later the Appalachian belt, were of course somewhat lower in rank, but above Irish Catholics in the caste system. Note that each ring radiates outward with declining proximity from the Aristocracy and the Monarch as titular head of the Church of England.
Proposing that the Irish or Scots weren’t “white” as a racial classification, rather than simply degrees of remote from the (also white) ruling class is silly. It’s the sort of thing that perhaps only a Jew with an intense understanding of being simultaneously in two worlds – white presenting to various degrees relative to blacks and Indians, but still “other” – could come up with to interpret these phenomena.
i hope the ‘social construct’ ignatiev left us.. .while screamng 😀 It’s a great day for America!
Interesting, but isn’t it a bit ironic that it is on the Orange Line?
Thanks. More detail on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_Toleration_Act#Repeal_and_legacy
A Protestant takeover in Maryland actually happened twice.
Self-identify as a minority of your choice and, BINGO! Diversity solved! Cite to Ignatiev as your authority for doing so.
Personally, I think everyone should just self-identify as “Hispanic”, then we can close the borders since we will now have enough of them. We will also be the biggest demographic, and the politicos will have to cater to us (once they figure out what “Hispanics” want as a voting block, that is).
Historian David Bernstein Bernstein stated “When I’ve pointed this out to people, they often rejoin that people in the late 19th and early 20th centuries often referred to the ‘Irish race,’ the ‘Italian race,’ the ‘Jewish race’. That’s true, but they also referred to the ‘Anglo-Saxon race,’ and the ‘Teutonic race,’ the latter two generally considered to be superior. The racist pseudo-science of the day divided Europeans into various races by nationality or perceived nationality, and often created a hierarchy among those groups. But that was a racist hierarchy within the white group, not evidence that these groups weren’t considered to be white. This point is often obscured by the whiteness studies crowd, because racism within a white hierarchy conflicts with their understanding of American racism solely being about “whiteness.”
So it would appear that nativists who called the Irish and the Italians as being other than white were in reality referring them to as being on the low end of the European white totem pole, as being white, but not a desired white, given the perception that both groups were viewed as being uncivilized, unskilled, and impoverished.
Again, let us NOTICE in our current ideological climate who are the Bad Guys and who are the Good Guys.
BAD
Trouble maker white –> Middle Eastern and Jewish
We feel sorry for you because you are not white –> blacks, Asians, indigenous
Fake white –> SJW, leftist, and/or feminist designation
PROBABLY BAD
Inferior white –> white + black or Asian or indigenous or mutt
You may be white, but probably not –> those who are wiggers
Wannabe whites –> those who lighten their skin to pass as white
Nazi white –> those who are extremist whites or in the KKK or those who love Hitler
PROBABLY GOOD
White, but not white –> those who oppose the Alt Right but are not leftists or feminists
Simply white –> whites who prefer not to be labeled as white…receive the label
GOOD
True white –> Alt Right designation
Exceptional white –> Alt Right designation + trace ancestors on both sides directly from 13 colonies
The Irish had the further ill fortune to be dumped, often sick and starving, in the ports of Canada and the USA by their English overlords during a depression. Such circumstances were likely to make them unwelcome under any circumstances.
My understanding was that he belonged to a race whose last two centuries of massive success depended on a cognitive dissonance and double-speak.
I doubt agenda-pushers are very concerned with correcting fundamental errors, as the weird antics of most “fact checkers” also demonstrates.
One Jew once said in an article that wherever some great discovery was being pursued by seven men, three of them wold be Jews. i say, wherever there are seven men trying to destroy Western Civilization, three of them are Jews. the one caveat is that this does not in any way apply to Israel. Israel is by , for, and only for the Jews, White Jews. Doubt it, just try to immigrate to Israel. If this clown’s ideas destroy the West, who will defend Israel, certainly not an African, Mexican, Moslem, America. But remember…Diversity is our strength!!!
‘You probably think I’m white because I look white.’
Said millions of white, affirmative-action entitled “Hispanics/Latinos” ..
A friend of mine is always going on about the threat of another Carrington Event. He won’t shut up about it. But he’s not prepping, so obviously he isn’t all that concerned.
Another friend always keeps an extra bullet in his pocket. Because you never know.
How the Irish Became White — quite easily, as they wanted to be White, unlike some (((other people.)))
Whether it’s a neighborhood, a town, or a country, the same general rule applies: If you want to join in and play by the rules, you’ll become accepted. If you want to shake things up and set yourself in opposition, you’ll be resisted.
There was a fair amount of Irish immigration to the South…obviously not as much as to the Northeast because there were fewer industrialized areas, but both Scots Irish and Catholic Irish have a historical presence in the South. The cities which were big hubs in the old South- Atlanta, Savannah, New Orleans, Baltimore, Memphis, Richmond, Mobile- have plenty of Irish Catholics. Savannah, New Orleans and Mobile in particular.
Gone with the Wind wasn’t just purely Margaret Mitchell’s fancy. She partially based Scarlett’s background after her own Irish & Scottish Catholic heritage.
Instantly embraced…maybe accepted without major assimilation issues is a better way to put it.
A few riots aren’t a big deal. Germans had riots too.
Wrong. At one time, the Irish were actually considered to be a different color.
As were the Germans. Ask Ben Franklin:
“Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion.”
You people don’t even read, do you?
I love all these fatuous sophomores on here who don’t know shit from shinola about anything, least of all the Irish and how they were perceived by the natives, parading their utter ignorance for all to see.
Not that I agree with Ignatiev on anything. He’s a tool. But that doesn’t change the fact that you people are just ignorant and I am on the side against ignorance, the third side, the right side.
Here’s a social construct for you boneheads who don’t think the Irish were considered black before they were considered white. Let’s consult Ben Franklin:
” The Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also.”
Average IQ in Israel is 95. Hardly highly intelligent.
Israel is not a particularly high IQ nation. Their leadership may be, but the general population is not made up of geniuses.
We should have a big party to celebrate like law enforcement and the old families of the Bay Area had when Faye Stender died.
A friend of mine is always going on about the threat of another Carrington Event. He won’t shut up about it. But he’s not prepping, so obviously he isn’t all that concerned.
Lol, he’s just LARPing. Telling himself scary stories. Like the old lady feminists who re-read Margaret Atwood obsessively. Just role playing.
Jackson’s family originated from the very north east of England , just south of the Scottish border. A lot of people called scots – Irish or Ulster Scots are actually of northern English Origen. Even Davy Crockett is called Ulster Scot when his family Origen was of French Huguenot settlers in Ireland, they settled in the northern half before going to America.
well that’s a curious comment coming from (((Ignatiev)))
almost like he’s saying “See, this is how you do it. I’ve been getting away with it for decades.”
what if people don’t buy it?
Is it like interracial porn, where you’ll keep pushing it anyway?
Rot in Hell
According to his Wikipedia page, this guy triggered the Jewish lobby by comparing Zionism to Nazism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noel_Ignatiev
It’s not just him.
Germans not English were the largest group in America.
😉
“White” traditionally meant Anglo-Saxon almost exclusively. This use of the term “white” to refer to anyone of European descent is a fairly modern concept and also an American concept.
The term “white” is rare to non-existent in Europe itself. Most Europeans refer to themselves simply by their nationality/culture not race. The only time Europeans would use the term “white” is to differentiate themselves from non-white citizens of their country but not as a form of identity in itself.
In 1860?
And, of course, they were kept in check by the WASP elites. When they posed a serious threat to WASP hegemony in 1917-18, they were mercilessly crushed.
If somebody did any part of this to Jews, he’d be crucified in the media, and if they did all of it, they’d be shot.
“In fact, it’s almost as if his intention was to mislead.”… gee, ya think? 😀
Israel is a 19th century construct by Ashkenazi Jews. All of the Prime Ministers Israel has had have been either Ashkenazi (European) Jews or their offspring. No Jews native to Palestine have been elected.
Israel isn’t a Biblical entity, it’s purely a place for European Jews to exercise hegemony over people.
Link takes you straight to the appropriate part of the lecture
The clue is in the name.
“Silly” is the wrong word here. “Deliberately dishonest” and “evil” would be far more apt.
False implicit assumption — Ignatiev identified as a member of one of the indigenous peoples of Europe, rather than a member of the Tribe.
Note that the interviewer, in two brief sentences, manages to both reiterate the false claim that Ignatiev was of wholly European descent, and promote the long-debunked semitic canard “Race = Just Skin Color!”
Ignatiev spent his whole life perfecting what is commonly known as the “My Fellow White People” trick. Some contemporary examples of similar behavior from his co-ethnics:
This type of behavior is commonly seen, not just in humans, but throughout the animal kingdom:
Crypsis
Or, more specifically:
Aggressive mimicry
Self-hating and self-loving can coexist at the same time in the same person. That boiling cauldron can produce some weird stuff.
Read “Good as Gold”, the lesser-known novel by “Catch-22” Jewish author Joseph Heller. Some good insights into the internal conflicts of Jews in majority Gentile America.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10714.Good_as_Gold
What we have here, is a failure, of terminology.
“White” broadly defined means native European Christian races.
We Jews may have white-like skin color, but we are not White.
Watch Mike Wallace, a prominent Jew, react when Morgan Freeman asks him “What month should be ‘White History Month’?
Wallace is shocked, uncomfortable at being called White. Then he says:
“I’m Jewish.”
Says it all.
Don’t really feel like listening to a lecture. Does he say at any point that Germans were the largest ethnic group in the USA in 1860?
Ignatiev’s thesis found a fertile audience amongst upwardly-striving lace-curtain Irish-Americans desperate to distance themselves from their cruder, working-class kinsmen. In reality, supposedly “non-white” Irish Catholics in America were, for well over a century, the ruthless shock troops of urban segregation and anti-black (or anti-Chinese) intimidation, in cities as diverse as Boston, New York, San Francisco, Chicago, Cincinnati, and New Orleans. (As sergeant Gerry Boyle noted, racism’s part of our culture). The obnoxiously strident political liberalism of Catholic-in-name-only Irish-American professionals is as largely an expression of class anxiety, like nouveau riche Victorian merchants making absurdly exaggerated attempts to mimic the manners of the titled aristocracy. (The Irish in Ireland, in turn, have long had a habit of thinking things popular amongst their richer American cousins are worthy of imitation).
No. Were the Germans and the Irish, for example, ever legally classified as non-White in the USA?
Just like heliocentrism.
You prefer Caucasoid/Caucasian?:
Nah, Europeans use White as a racial term all the time.
Sure they do. When an Englishman describes himself as a White Briton, that’s an identity.
Apparently, you don’t know English. “Swarthy” is not a synonym for “black.”
Plus, if you were at all conversant with history, you would never have so dramatically misunderstood Franklin’s statement.
You’re welcome, genius.
Well it took a long time, but you’ve finally proved yourself an imbecile.
I’ll give you the Webster’s kid’s version because you are so cretinous and history-challenged you can understand nothing else you incredibly typical fatuous numbskull.
swarthy adjective
swar·thy | \ ˈswȯr-t͟hē
, -thē\
swarthier; swarthiest
Kids Definition of swarthy
: having a dark complexion
Definition of dark
(Entry 1 of 3)
1a : devoid or partially devoid of light : not receiving, reflecting, transmitting, or radiating light a dark room
b : transmitting only a portion of light dark glasses
2a : wholly or partially black
The fastest growing Jewish population is the ultra-orthodox, who don’t work, refuse the draft, and do nothing but study the Talmud and spit on goyim all day. They’re low-IQ welfare bums and proud of it. Cut off the spigot from Uncle Sugar and they’ll quickly be reduced to the level of the besieged Gazans.
Yes, they were. Still were up until recently.
This is because all Europeans were historically white, so it’s meaningless as a distinction. It only makes sense in relation to the presence of blacks, just as blacks with no contact with Europe never called themselves that, they called themselves Bantu or Xhosa or Khoi San.
Before blacks were around, Europeans had two rival races nearby, Semites and Mongols. But since the skin color difference isn’t as drastic between these two and Europeans, and because they were both relatively brown and had different degrees of admixture, it made more sense to refer to their tribe, i.e. Turk, Arab, Tatar, Hun. A meaningful description of races requires a knowledge of wide areas of the world, which only came about from the age of sail. Before then, race was synonymous with tribe.
Shamir is a lot more than just anti-Zionist.
(I’m anti-Zionist.)
“ Average IQ in Israel is 95.”
Probably not that low. Not very high though.
I am glad the USA serves as a homeland for AJs and is relatively free of Arabs and the dumber subtropical Jews whose genes and culture were degraded living around Arabs for centuries.
“Hurr, durr — da Irish wuz Negroes… from Africa!!”
Toxic, hate-filled semitism in action.
And what actual evidence can you cite for your ludicrously-ignorant claim that the indigenous people of Ireland are more closely related to Bantus than to the other indigenous peoples of Europe, hmm?
Other than your feelz, that is.
Take your time — we’ll wait.
Lot making yet another desperate, flailing, failed attempt to promote the long-discredited semitic canard of muh so-called “yiddishe kop.”
Sad!
Wut?
Ignatiev wasn’t promoting “Irish victimology” — he was promoting virulent, unreasoning anti-white hatred — and toxic semitism — via (((deconstruction))) of white identity.
IQ isn’t everything.
Which is preferable: a high-IQ individual who promotes Invade the World/ Invite the World/ In Hock to the World perniciousness; sexual depravity; and vilification of Whites, or a low-IQ individual who does not support any of the aforementioned societal cancers? It is (overwhelmingly secular/irreligious/anti-religious) Ashkenazi Jews– not the Sefardim and Mizrahim (Teimanim, etc.)– who are so over-represented among the Cult-Marx, SJW and Neocon elements.
“This is because all Europeans were historically white, so it’s meaningless as a distinction.”
But when did this distinction take place? Consider David R. Roediger’s Working Toward Whiteness, who explains that by the late 1800’s, people considered white generally hailed from England, the Netherlands, Ireland, Germany and Scandinavian countries. Those immigrants from Eastern and Southern Europe to the United States were placed in a racial pecking order below these groups, but above people of color. There had been end of the world predictions about America’s impending doom–Poles, Italians, and Jews impose their inferior biology, peculiar religious practices, and substandard ways of living onto the “purer races”, in effect vitiating a higher society. At worst, these three groups were of a lower biological order, i.e. other than white. At best, those three groups were culturally inferior, but could assimilate, but not “true white”.
“Before blacks were around, Europeans had two rival races nearby, Semites and Mongols.”
Those two groups are not races. Wikipedia–The Mongols are a Mongolic ethnic group native to Mongolia and to China’s Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region. The term Semitic in a racial sense was coined by members of the Göttingen School of History in the early 1770’s. As language studies are interwoven with cultural studies, the term also came to describe the religions (ancient Semitic and Abrahamic) and Semitic-speaking ethnicities as well as the history of these varied cultures as associated by close geographic and linguistic distribution.
“Before then, race was synonymous with tribe.”
According to Who/Whom?
“Jews in the West tended to harbor a lot of self-hatred. I suppose that when you belong to a tiny hated minority (but physically not that different from the host population) you have an unconscious desire to join the majority (given these twisted feelings it’s no wonder psychoanalysis was invented by Jews).”
Nonsense. Neurosis doesn’t equal self hatred. And Freud invented psychoanalysis deliberately as a means of undermining Christian civilization.
When viewing Jewish behavior, first consider what they hate. The “self-hatred” nonsense is itself just another Jewish dodge to avoid any responsibility for their behavior.
But of course!!!
Great news the Irish will be able to get reparations when Liz gets elected
Nope. It’s a deliberate misuse of terminology in order to falsely portray semitic hatred for the indigenous peoples of Europe — a hatred which stems from hyperethnocentrism and deep hatred of the Other — as “white self-hatred.”
More examples of MOTs employing the notorious “My Fellow White People” [MFWP] technique of deliberate aggressive mimicry to promote anti-white hatred:
In Europe it’s all about class, with left-wing Jews inciting the poor against the rich, and right-wing Jews inciting the rich against the poor. Jews seem to do this in every society they enter, though the particulars vary.
Well, let’s see — the Naturalization Act of 1790 restricted US citizenship to “free white persons”:
As did the Naturalization Acts of 1795 and 1798. Were Irish allowed to become naturalized citizens during that period?
Uh. yeah. Case closed.
Now let’s move on to a more interesting work of historical scholarship:
How the Mizrahim Became Jews
Israel Makes Public 200,000 Documents on Missing Yemenite Children
“The Israeli government has recognized its duty to act quickly to help uncover the full picture in the disappearance of Yemeni children and other Diaspora children.”
Ashkenazi Doctors in Israel Irradiated Tens of Thousands of Arab and Mizrahi Children
Netanyahu Apologizes for “Mizrahi Gene” Remark
Mizrahim in Israel
Mizrahi Feminism in Israel
The Irish had it easy in the USA, compared to the Germans, Italians, and everyone else. Yet, they whine about past discrimination more then any other group. Wonder why that is? And further, no one asked them to come to the USA. If your Irish ancestors didn’t like all the Proddy-stants not letting them into the country club, they could have left and gone to Canada, Australia, South America, or South Africa. Or stayed in Ireland.
We had an Irish Catholic sign the declaration of independence. in the 1830s the wealthiest slave holder in South Carolina was an Irish Catholic. We always had “Irish” in the USA. We got a big flood of ignorant Irish Peasants that had to be assimilated in the 1850s. Its amazing that instead of being grateful to the Proddy-stants for letting come here, they spend all their time bitching about “Me great grand-fadder, saw an “No irish need apply sign” in the 1878.
Why didn’t the famine Irish go to South America? Many of them were Gaelic-speakers anyway so the fact the U.S. spoke English wouldn’t have meant anything. Did South American countries have immigration restrictions in those days?
Sure, it’s clear now that Ignatiev’s long game was Anti-White. But his initial gambit was to inflame tension between Irish Catholics and Protestant Americans with pre-1850 US roots. I’d argue that tensions between Irish Americans (from the 1840 to 1920 wave) and older stock Americans had mellowed out by 1970, partly due to intermarriage with Protestants & the 1925 Immigration moratorium. But Ignatiev used a ploy that was repeated by the predominantly Neocon/J-Left media pundits who blocked immigration restrictions in the 1990s:
-dredge up the anxieties, disadvantages & distrust experienced by some Irish immigrants before 1920 and wave those around as evidence for a wider indictment of Protestants.
-use that indictment as a reason to stick it to old stock America by importing millions of immigrants who will join in a Leftist Coalition of Resentment (a predecessor to iSteve’s Coalition of the Fringes)
Thanks for that post.
It always struck me a ridiculous that Teddy Kennedy got away with claiming so much Irish Catholic authenticity, given his libertinism, & secular humanism. He had a loyal following in Massachusetts Irish circles, but that didn’t translate to making him so popular with Irish beyond the northeast. It was as though he was simply the Donor Class’s favorite Irish pol. A useful peddler for their Globalism.
Fortunately, a lot of the Irish diaspora is waking up. They realize they’ve been played as pawns.
I love Israel. But you are setting yourself up for disappointment. You wrote:
“High IQ, IQ realism, and respect for IQ together really constitute the Israelite’s secret weapon for cultural cohesion.”
It is not so. There is just not so much High IQ around. Israel is stressful. Boys and girls must (not choose) to serve in the military, absolutely not fun.
Service with its misery, gives you a healthy outlook on life. … You may find your partner there.
You wrote:
“Among Jews there is still a respect for the nebbish, gaunt-skinned ghetto dwelling scholar-type and the desire to see him father babies in accordance with God’s commandments to Abraham. In yenta circles a strapping and illiterate black buck stands no chance against Shlomo the cybersecurity nerd, for example.”
Shlomo the weakling with glasses, and that brilliant mind is sent by the Army to the University, and after graduation serves 5 years in uniform as an officer. No more nebbishkeyt.
So I looked for it.
I went to B’nai Brak to buy a siddur. The majority of the young men looked full and healthy. A small minority looked nebbishy, they still had a wife. ;Cause marriages are arranged by the parents, and not by “falling in love”.
As far as an “illiterate black buck”, I have not seen such persons in Israel. A Yente has no such choice. She may need to come to America…..
I love Israel. But you are setting yourself up for disappointment. You wrote:
“High IQ, IQ realism, and respect for IQ together really constitute the Israelite’s secret weapon for cultural cohesion.”
It is not so. There is just not so much High IQ around. Israel is stressful. Boys and girls must (not choose) to serve in the military, absolutely not fun.
Service with its misery, gives you a healthy outlook on life. … You may find your partner there.
You wrote:
“Among Jews there is still a respect for the nebbish, gaunt-skinned ghetto dwelling scholar-type and the desire to see him father babies in accordance with God’s commandments to Abraham. In yenta circles a strapping and illiterate black buck stands no chance against Shlomo the cybersecurity nerd, for example.”
Shlomo the weakling with glasses, and that brilliant mind is sent by the Army to the University, and after graduation serves 5 years in uniform as an officer. No more nebbishkeyt.
So I looked for it.
I went to B’nai Brak to buy a siddur. The majority of the young men looked full and healthy. A small minority looked nebbishy, they still had a wife. ;Cause marriages are arranged by the parents, and not by “falling in love”.
As far as an “illiterate black buck”, I have not seen such persons in Israel. A Yente has no such choice. She may need to come to America…..
I love Israel. But you are setting yourself up for disappointment. You wrote:
“High IQ, IQ realism, and respect for IQ together really constitute the Israelite’s secret weapon for cultural cohesion.”
It is not so. There is just not so much High IQ around. Israel is stressful. Boys and girls must (not choose) to serve in the military, absolutely not fun.
Service with its misery, gives you a healthy outlook on life. … You may find your partner there.
You wrote:
“Among Jews there is still a respect for the nebbish, gaunt-skinned ghetto dwelling scholar-type and the desire to see him father babies in accordance with God’s commandments to Abraham. In yenta circles a strapping and illiterate black buck stands no chance against Shlomo the cybersecurity nerd, for example.”
Shlomo the weakling with glasses, and that brilliant mind is sent by the Army to the University, and after graduation serves 5 years in uniform as an officer. No more nebbishkeyt.
So I looked for it.
I went to B’nai Brak to buy a siddur. The majority of the young men looked full and healthy. A small minority looked nebbishy, they still had a wife. ;Cause marriages are arranged by the parents, and not by “falling in love”.
As far as an “illiterate black buck”, I have not seen such persons in Israel. A Yente has no such choice. She may need to come to America…..
The clergy let him and his kind get away with it, for decades. Read Philip F. Lawler’s “The Faithful Departed“, if you haven’t already. It’s not only the essential book on the collapse of Catholic culture in the Boston archdiocese, but a perfect microcosm of what happened to Catholicism worldwide from about 1955-2005.
The poor are always looking for help, but the rich think the poor are friends in need ( a pest). Affluence destroys religious belief, and community feeling.
The Catholic neighborhoods, be they Irish Italian or Polish, were always feared, loathed and in time became the primary target of blockbusting,
I took the trouble to link to a question at the end of the lecture and you act blaise, I’ll know the next time. Most of them came for economic reasons between 1820 and 1870. Frederick Trump came after the unification of Germany in order to avoid military conscription. Many of the German immigrants to America exited through a building that the Nazis closed down in one of their first acts on coming to power. Hitler was preoccupied with the best German DNA being in the US ever since he saw some US POW in ww1.
“Plus they didn’t generally live in the small towns where religion dominated the social scene, anyway. The small numbers of those who happened to end up in such places probably converted.”
Visit Wisconsin sometime.