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From The Oregonian:

Defense rests with witness confirming he was FBI informant and ran occupation’s shooting range

Maxine Bernstein | The Oregonian/OregonLive

on October 17, 2016 at 6:45 PM, updated October 17, 2016 at 10:10 PM

Defense lawyers rested in the Oregon standoff case Monday after they called a witness who confirmed he was an informant for the FBI and acknowledged that he infiltrated the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and supervised the shooting range for several days.

The man who occupiers initially knew only by his alias “John Killman” was revealed to be Fabio Minoggio, a Las Vegas resident subpoenaed by the defense to testify after prosecutors declined to confirm if he was a government informant. …

Minoggio was one of 15 confidential informants who fed the FBI information about the occupiers, testimony showed.

Nine of the 15 were at the refuge for various lengths of time between Jan. 4 and Jan. 26, according to a statement that Assistant U.S. Attorney Craig Gabriel read to jurors. Those nine included the three who have been identified at trial: Minoggio, defense witness Terri Linnell of California and Mark McConnell, who was the driver of the Jeep that Ammon Bundy was riding in when he was arrested on Jan. 26.

None of the unidentified other six informants were at the refuge beyond Jan. 23, Gabriel told jurors.

Killman, defense lawyer Tiffany Harris pointed out in a written legal brief, was a participant in the firearms and military-style maneuvers training during the occupation and helped train one of the defendants, Jeff Banta, in hand-to-hand combat techniques.

He spoke with a French or South African accent to people at the refuge and his Facebook profile included a majority of friends who occupied the refuge, according to defense lawyers. Defense investigators learned Minoggio was born in Switzerland and had served in the Swiss army for 20 years. He was trained in “psy-ops,” weaponry and martial arts, according to Harris’ legal brief.

“We are dealing here with a situation of a confidential informant who is participating in the commission of the alleged offense,” defense lawyer Marcus Mumford said in court.

Earlier Monday, prosecutors had refused to confirm if the man who went by “Mr. Killman” was working for the government.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Geoffrey Barrow said prosecutors aren’t obligated to disclose any information identifying informants. …

How do you tell government informants from agents provocateur?

 
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  1. Or more to the point, global mercenaries who find governments willing to use their entrepreneurial capabilities against the locals.

  2. I’ve heard that about the present day klan ( all 15 of them) , 14 are undercover FBI. Our gov, always fighting yesterday’s battles. NPR gave this story lots of coverage, they really hate it when the subjects defy their ( NPR’ s) beloved state.

    • Replies: @fnn

    Our gov, always fighting yesterday’s battles.
     
    More like fabrication of threats to impress the more credulous members of the public.
    , @E. Rekshun
    I’ve heard that about the present day klan ( all 15 of them) , 14 are undercover FBI.

    Almost the same situation with "outlaw bikers." It gives White "undercover" feds something to do, and prosecutors get their "great White defendant." And then they all get to embellish their stories on Dateline or the Investigation Discovery channel after they retire and move on as PIs or head of security for some bank.

  3. Obvious. Trying to create The Great White Defendant(s).

    We are all only consuming resources from Tom Wolfe’s world.

    • Agree: No_0ne
  4. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Yeah I remember the liberal narrative in places like Slate and the Washington post for a week was “we would be calling the people terrorists if they weren’t white”. Now it looks even sillier now that about a quarter of these people were moles. I guess the hunt for the great white violent uprising continues…

    On a different subject, I think I’ve found Tiny Duck’s favorite Youtuber:

    • Replies: @TontoBubbaGoldstein
    At the 22:00 minute mark, someone really should tell her about Liberia.
    , @Olorin
    Actually, that is Tiny.

    Or anyway my mental image of him/them.
    , @bomag

    ...Duck’s favorite Youtuber
     
    She refers to Whites as "evil albinos". At the 14.00 mark, in a crescendo to her frenzy of reciting Black accomplishment, she announces that Henry Ford stole the concept of the automobile from a Black lady.

    It is said that Newton's math professor resigned his post and recommended Newton as the replacement. At the Barack School of Racial Grievance, I'm sure the teachers would resign so this lady could teach all the subjects.
    , @E. Rekshun
    I think I’ve found Tiny Duck’s favorite Youtuber

    I clicked stop play at 0:15 when she used the word "improve" for the word "approve." Well, that and I couldn't take her nasal whine any longer than that.
  5. In every single right wing group and militia, there are undercover Feds.

    • Replies: @Glossy
    Which means that some of the people with Pepe avatars in Twitter are Feds too. The only question is what percentage.
    , @BB753
    I just didn't expect them to be the majority in those groups!
    What about left-wing groups like BLM? Are government stooges in the majority too in the upper rungs of the organization?
  6. @Anonymous
    I've heard that about the present day klan ( all 15 of them) , 14 are undercover FBI. Our gov, always fighting yesterday's battles. NPR gave this story lots of coverage, they really hate it when the subjects defy their ( NPR' s) beloved state.

    Our gov, always fighting yesterday’s battles.

    More like fabrication of threats to impress the more credulous members of the public.

  7. Our government and media have no more legitimacy.

  8. Shouldn’t you be more concerned about your fellow writers at Unz.com?

    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @bored identity
    Why don't you enlighten the rest of us with some well-sunsteined evidence for your claims?

    Let me help you with Seven Unknown Knowns True or False Game:

    1.The Saker is saking directly to the Gremlin from Kremlin.

    2. Karlin is not a really a 'rouble-maker, but at this point still uncertified Virginia Farm Boy's benefit recipient.

    3. Giraldi in reality had never received his retirement watch from Langley.

    4. Shamir is shamelessly double-dipping in Collections Departments of should-I-even-have-to-say-which-two-countries.

    5. Mercer is South-African Mercerary libertarianicly eBaying her honey trapping skills to the highest principals bidder.

    6. Finkelstein used to be useful to Tel Aviv only because of his rolodex .

    7. Late Cockburn, just like the rest of his clan, was always an uncocked, back-burning asset of Section 6.

    Who else?

    Almost forgot:

    Unz is unwittingly accepting financial support from the very same peeps that used to pamper Gloria Steinem, and Sailer sold all our personal info, so he can maintain exuberant lifestyle and shower his wife with one-percenters gifts such as a brand new dishwasher !*


    ( *Dare you to run fact- check on this one)

    , @Langley
    Langley actually is my name. Honest.
  9. @Anonymous
    Yeah I remember the liberal narrative in places like Slate and the Washington post for a week was "we would be calling the people terrorists if they weren't white". Now it looks even sillier now that about a quarter of these people were moles. I guess the hunt for the great white violent uprising continues...


    On a different subject, I think I've found Tiny Duck's favorite Youtuber:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrKMZkabAuE

    At the 22:00 minute mark, someone really should tell her about Liberia.

  10. Bill Clinton’s illegitimate son Danny Williams. Danny was conceived during an encounter between Bill and a black prostitute.

    • Replies: @DCThrowback
    *alleged. This would be more believable if 1/ there was some past black women who came forward and say they also were w/ Bill and 2/ Bill has no history of paying for it, especially w/ black women. He was a man of power, I am sure the fun was in the conquest...many times consensual, a few times maybe not so much. This smacks so much of a "fake conspiracy" to keep us from the real shit that actually went down with the crime family. What's amazing about the Clintons is too much is never enough; you know, most people would be happy with, say, $25M and a house in Chappaqua, but for them it appears that the fun is in the game!

    (Remember, they are protected on high by the prince of darkness because of their work in the 80s for the CIA in the Mena/Contras operation. They know where the bodies are buried and are still cashing those metaphorical 'chits' in the game.
  11. Any of the informants named Priss Factor?

    I ask only because Ron caught PF using 300+ aliases here (see the Announcements thread) and that sounds like a Federal gig.

    • Replies: @Dr. X

    I ask only because Ron caught PF using 300+ aliases here (see the Announcements thread) and that sounds like a Federal gig.
     
    Of course. How many Federal assholes do you think are goldbricking a cushy 20-and-out pension scam by reading and posting on internet comment threads like these in the name of "national security"? Thousands, probably.

    Meanwhile, 15 million illegals with God-knows-what malicious intent swarm across the American border...
  12. @God Emperor Putin
    In every single right wing group and militia, there are undercover Feds.

    Which means that some of the people with Pepe avatars in Twitter are Feds too. The only question is what percentage.

  13. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    This is pretty typical, from undercover DOJ employees getting involved in the Trayvon ‘protests’ to infiltration of left and right wing groups. The government devotes a great deal of resources towards internal security and who ever knows what’s a false flag and what isn’t. So-called ‘terrorist’ plots that are triumphantly foiled just usually involve none too bright patsies surrounded by agents. It’s all an amoral, dirty business. There’s no shortage of willing executioners who’ll do anything for a paycheck.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "There’s no shortage of willing executioners who’ll do anything for a paycheck."

    We are talking about federal employees here, so they might draw the line at being involved in any sort of plot that involves actual work.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    So-called ‘terrorist’ plots that are triumphantly foiled just usually involve none too bright patsies surrounded by agents.

     

    Why not just leave out the "patsies" part and just have an agent do it? Relying on a patsy introduces uncertainty and risk to an operation.
  14. Trump giving speech right now.

  15. @God Emperor Putin
    In every single right wing group and militia, there are undercover Feds.

    I just didn’t expect them to be the majority in those groups!
    What about left-wing groups like BLM? Are government stooges in the majority too in the upper rungs of the organization?

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri

    "What about left-wing groups like BLM? Are government stooges in the majority too in the upper rungs of the organization?"
     
    Only if those organizations need logistics and support, but Soros and Hillary provide plenty of that, so I doubt it.

    Another thing is that Federal agencies like the FBI and ATF mainly employ young-to-middle-aged white guys, so if your organization looks like that, they're all set to infiltrate you. If your org is full of weedy Near Easterners or scabrous ghetto thugs, well, you can go your way unmolested by the Feds.
  16. #allhandsondeck

  17. • Replies: @CK
    Sorry that page does n0t exist. Speedy lil rascals aren't they.
  18. Q: How can you spot the undercover FBI informant in a militia group?

    A: He’s the only one who knows how to get his hands on real dynamite.

    ————–

    Q: How can you spot the undercover FBI informant in a KKK meeting?

    A: He’s the only one whose dues are paid in full for the whole year.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    Or you can just use the old rule of thumb: the guy at the meeting who is most enthusiastic about direct action is the FBI informant.
    , @the cruncher
    No joke on the first one. There was a story on NPR a few years back about the moral quandry caused by an FBI agent who'd infiltrated a bunch of grouchy, tough-talking but diabetic + asthmatic old anti-govt. vets. Hey I know a guy who can get explosives! And also, someone who could rig it all up! He's done - want to do the honors of calling this number on this cellphone, to detonate it all?

    Sure they talked violent, but how real of a threat were they? I don't remember what happened to them.
  19. The government informant’s alias was “John Killman”?! LOL! Did any of the other informants go by “Bob Klansman”?

    • Replies: @Danindc
    That is hilarious. Was the Mexican guy named Pepe Altrighter?
    , @Forbes
    And 'Killman' spoke in a "French or South African" accent (meaning ESL). Why on earth would anyone embrace such a foreign character in a uniquely US federal constitutional protest?
  20. How do you tell government informants from agents provocateur?

    Umm, aren’t they the same thing these days?

    Half the arrests of Muslims are of people who were prodded into some act of terrorism. Gotta wonder how many people have actually been killed when feds slipped up and didn’t keep a close enough eye on the people they radicalized. I doubt that’s intelligence that would be shared with the general public in any trial.

    You’d think “radicals” would vet their members, but I honestly don’t think the Bundys and most others at the Malheur office actually thought they were committing a serious crime.

    • Replies: @jJay
    Half the arrests of Muslims are of people who were prodded into some act of terrorism.

    I have been prodded into doing many foolish things for the attention of a pretty woman, but not committing acts of terrorism. This needs a deeper explanation from your heart.
    , @Dr. X
    Here's a couple of cases of overpaid FBI agents with lots of time on their hands entrapping morons and idiots as supposed "terrorists":

    http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/local/columnists/andreatta/2016/01/05/andreatta-truthiness-emanuel-lutchman-islamic-state-isis-isil/78268492/

    http://buffalonews.com/2016/01/06/feds-defend-arrest-of-rochester-terror-suspect-amid-criticism-from-family/

    https://news.vice.com/article/this-kkk-guy-tried-to-build-an-x-ray-weapon-to-kill-muslims-and-obama-feds-say
    , @E. Rekshun
    Gotta wonder how many people have actually been killed when feds slipped up

    Not an all-to-infrequent occurrence when they're doing drug investigations, including the cases where, based on faulty intel, SWAT hits the wrong house and blasts some innocent half-asleep guy in his underwear or some 80-year old grandmother. But these collateral damages are usually poor blacks and poor, rural Whites, so...

    SS has briefed us on the quiet case not long ago of the DEA agent murdering some 20-something in the back of some retail parking lot over a couple of ounces of weed.
  21. As we used to say in my militia days, how do you know someone is an undercover fed? He’s the one always offering you dynamite.

    • Replies: @Olorin
    Or badgering you as their gunsmith to cut the shotgun barrel .1" shorter than federal and state laws allow.
    , @Twinkie

    As we used to say in my militia days, how do you know someone is an undercover fed? He’s the one always offering you dynamite.
     
    Especially with white power slogans.

    I belong to a group of guys who go precision shooting at long distances (it's always a fun day when someone brings a 50 cal BMG Barrett - and then someone else says, I brought one too!). The group leans pretty hardcore right, and is prone to more than occasional of anti-government chatter. The funny thing is that most of the guys are ex- or present federal LE or intel community as well as contractors who were SOCOM "operators."
  22. “He passed on unsuspected and deadly, like a pest in the street full of men.”

    —Joseph Conrad, The Secret Agent

  23. @Bill P

    How do you tell government informants from agents provocateur?
     
    Umm, aren't they the same thing these days?

    Half the arrests of Muslims are of people who were prodded into some act of terrorism. Gotta wonder how many people have actually been killed when feds slipped up and didn't keep a close enough eye on the people they radicalized. I doubt that's intelligence that would be shared with the general public in any trial.

    You'd think "radicals" would vet their members, but I honestly don't think the Bundys and most others at the Malheur office actually thought they were committing a serious crime.

    Half the arrests of Muslims are of people who were prodded into some act of terrorism.

    I have been prodded into doing many foolish things for the attention of a pretty woman, but not committing acts of terrorism. This needs a deeper explanation from your heart.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    Lots of the arrests of terrorist in the US involve the Feds doing all the planning and providing the weapons and money, while some utterly hapless losers go along. On one hand, the kind of losers who fall into this kind of trap are probably not a great loss to the world when they end up in prison. On the other hand, they're mostly not people who could actually have managed any attack more complicated than "here's a gun, go shoot up that post office." Maybe not even that.
  24. Assistant U.S. Attorney Geoffrey Barrow said prosecutors aren’t obligated to disclose any information identifying informants.

    So the government gets to screw you at trial with secret foreign mercenary informants they paid to entrap you.

    Yet another example where our government and law enforcement “betters” have seen fit to stomp the bootheel of tyranny upon the throats of the American people (aka those filthy, inferior swine who populate the continent between New York and San Francisco).

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    Gary Larson's "Far Side" had a cartoon of wolves-in-sheep's-clothing infiltrating a flock of sheep -- two wolves have pulled off their sheep's head masks because the ruse apparently wasn't working, and the one says, "Wait . . ." and wonders if there are any sheep present.

    https://media.reason.com/mc/jwalker/2012_09/FarSideWolvesSheep.jpg?h=360&w=280
  25. @Bill P

    How do you tell government informants from agents provocateur?
     
    Umm, aren't they the same thing these days?

    Half the arrests of Muslims are of people who were prodded into some act of terrorism. Gotta wonder how many people have actually been killed when feds slipped up and didn't keep a close enough eye on the people they radicalized. I doubt that's intelligence that would be shared with the general public in any trial.

    You'd think "radicals" would vet their members, but I honestly don't think the Bundys and most others at the Malheur office actually thought they were committing a serious crime.
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    Hey, it's a lot easier than investigating Hillary Clinton, and it's more likely to lead to a promotion.

    GS-14s for everybody!
  26. @Dr. X

    Assistant U.S. Attorney Geoffrey Barrow said prosecutors aren’t obligated to disclose any information identifying informants.
     
    So the government gets to screw you at trial with secret foreign mercenary informants they paid to entrap you.

    Yet another example where our government and law enforcement "betters" have seen fit to stomp the bootheel of tyranny upon the throats of the American people (aka those filthy, inferior swine who populate the continent between New York and San Francisco).

    Gary Larson’s “Far Side” had a cartoon of wolves-in-sheep’s-clothing infiltrating a flock of sheep — two wolves have pulled off their sheep’s head masks because the ruse apparently wasn’t working, and the one says, “Wait . . .” and wonders if there are any sheep present.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.
  27. @Anonymous
    Any of the informants named Priss Factor?

    I ask only because Ron caught PF using 300+ aliases here (see the Announcements thread) and that sounds like a Federal gig.

    I ask only because Ron caught PF using 300+ aliases here (see the Announcements thread) and that sounds like a Federal gig.

    Of course. How many Federal assholes do you think are goldbricking a cushy 20-and-out pension scam by reading and posting on internet comment threads like these in the name of “national security”? Thousands, probably.

    Meanwhile, 15 million illegals with God-knows-what malicious intent swarm across the American border…

  28. @Inquiring Mind
    Gary Larson's "Far Side" had a cartoon of wolves-in-sheep's-clothing infiltrating a flock of sheep -- two wolves have pulled off their sheep's head masks because the ruse apparently wasn't working, and the one says, "Wait . . ." and wonders if there are any sheep present.

    https://media.reason.com/mc/jwalker/2012_09/FarSideWolvesSheep.jpg?h=360&w=280

    Thanks.

  29. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    More government insanity- The DNC is asking a court to censure Republicans over Trump

    Basically, Trump told people to be on the look out for cheating, because the Democrats have been actively engaged in it- as a proven fact. They are now claiming that this means that he is trying to intimidate minority voters by questioning them at the polls.

    Hopefully the judge will be sane enough to recognize its just more baseless slander against Trump. Where is the basis for this? He asked them to watch for cheating. They have as much right to be there doing that as anyone. They don’t have to ask anyone anything, or even make their presence as observers known. As no one would know they are there, who they are, the only people who would feel intimidated are those actually trying to cheat, that they might worry they will be caught on video going there repeatedly to vote, or that there would be video of them busing in illegals to vote.

    The only reason he has to even ask for this is because of all the outrageous cheating from the Democrats. Its bad enough that the media has been doing it for months with outrageously biased reporting, as have provocateur agents hired by the Dems, rigged primaries, etc. It also came to light in the videos that they are doing things like busing in illegals, repeat voting, etc. The people do have a right to a fair election, and have every right to watch the polling centers for evidence of fraud. If they do censure the Republicans, the people should go and do it anyway.

    I also notice with interest the DNC getting its panties in a bunch that a group of illegal voters might feel intimidated over the idea of people watching a polling center, meanwhile they did nothing but ignore and talk down the significance of Black Panthers patrolling voting centers with weapons and physically intimidating and preventing whites from voting.

    As usual, what the left says and does are 180 degrees from what is correct.

  30. @BB753
    I just didn't expect them to be the majority in those groups!
    What about left-wing groups like BLM? Are government stooges in the majority too in the upper rungs of the organization?

    “What about left-wing groups like BLM? Are government stooges in the majority too in the upper rungs of the organization?”

    Only if those organizations need logistics and support, but Soros and Hillary provide plenty of that, so I doubt it.

    Another thing is that Federal agencies like the FBI and ATF mainly employ young-to-middle-aged white guys, so if your organization looks like that, they’re all set to infiltrate you. If your org is full of weedy Near Easterners or scabrous ghetto thugs, well, you can go your way unmolested by the Feds.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    I'm sure there are infiltrators in BLM, and were in Occupy as well. It's a natural tactic for keeping an eye on protesting/dissenting groups, either to make sure they're not doing anything illegal, or to attack them in various ways.
    , @abner
    These are CIs (confidential informants), not literal undercover FBI agents. However, going by some of the Mother Jones and Independent stories about shady FBI stings on Muslim screwups, it's possible for them to be pretty extravagantly compensated (as in getting a year's middle class salary). DC spending inflation goes a long way.

    I expect to see many more white knucklehead terror setups unless Trump both wins and somehow summons his inner Putin to ruthlessly clean house.
    , @Marcus
    Just find an informant then
  31. Muslims don’t need Agents Provocateurs to rile them up to blow stuff up. They do it in places without much police at all (Belgium, Germany) and in Muslim countries like Indonesia and Malaysia let alone Egypt and Pakistan.

    Blowing stuff up is what Muslims are good at. Just about the only thing. Muslim men are always aggrieved due to polygamy and the general low quality of women that system produces. Muslim women are infamous for being perhaps only behind Black women among the least desired. Muslims just like blowing stuff and in particular people up; ISIS has no problem recruiting Muslims to blow up other Muslims, burn them alive in cages, and stuff like that. I believe Muslims call that “Tuesday.”

    However, White men are not by nature inclined to blow stuff up. First off, they figure rightly it is their country, they own it, and have a vested ownership interest in it. Of course the stupid thing is to tell White men that this is NOT their country and they can by reason of being both White and Male (and honestly, beta) be only discriminated outsiders with no place in society. But for now that does not hold. The overwhelming majority of White men need Government Agents to act as Agent Provocateurs to stir them to violence.

    Of course, using guns and bombs is so old school … Muslim. Woe betide this country when SJW Nice White Ladies and Genius T. Coates all convince White men that they have no place in the nation er, global boarding house. Its not as if individual White men acting totally alone can screw things up by hacking, and so on.

  32. @Paul Mendez
    Q: How can you spot the undercover FBI informant in a militia group?

    A: He's the only one who knows how to get his hands on real dynamite.

    --------------

    Q: How can you spot the undercover FBI informant in a KKK meeting?

    A: He's the only one whose dues are paid in full for the whole year.

    Or you can just use the old rule of thumb: the guy at the meeting who is most enthusiastic about direct action is the FBI informant.

  33. @jJay
    Half the arrests of Muslims are of people who were prodded into some act of terrorism.

    I have been prodded into doing many foolish things for the attention of a pretty woman, but not committing acts of terrorism. This needs a deeper explanation from your heart.

    Lots of the arrests of terrorist in the US involve the Feds doing all the planning and providing the weapons and money, while some utterly hapless losers go along. On one hand, the kind of losers who fall into this kind of trap are probably not a great loss to the world when they end up in prison. On the other hand, they’re mostly not people who could actually have managed any attack more complicated than “here’s a gun, go shoot up that post office.” Maybe not even that.

    • Replies: @jJay
    I blame the English for this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIKgC9tlwUU
  34. @Almost Missouri

    "What about left-wing groups like BLM? Are government stooges in the majority too in the upper rungs of the organization?"
     
    Only if those organizations need logistics and support, but Soros and Hillary provide plenty of that, so I doubt it.

    Another thing is that Federal agencies like the FBI and ATF mainly employ young-to-middle-aged white guys, so if your organization looks like that, they're all set to infiltrate you. If your org is full of weedy Near Easterners or scabrous ghetto thugs, well, you can go your way unmolested by the Feds.

    I’m sure there are infiltrators in BLM, and were in Occupy as well. It’s a natural tactic for keeping an eye on protesting/dissenting groups, either to make sure they’re not doing anything illegal, or to attack them in various ways.

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    I've seen some purported 9-11 Truthers who sure seem like informants and/or agents provocateurs.

    Some of them seem to be spreading ridiculous theories in order to discredit by association anyone who questions anything about the official story.
    , @Almost Missouri

    "I’m sure there are infiltrators in BLM"
     
    You think the White House wants to suppress BLM? When Obama and Hillary regularly go on television to support them?

    "It’s a natural tactic for keeping an eye on protesting/dissenting groups"
     
    When you're "protest" is the official party line, it is hard to be "dissenting".

    "to make sure they’re not doing anything illegal"
     
    Such as murdering police officers? Yeah, they prevented that pretty well ... oh, wait!
    , @No_0ne
    lol "infiltrators" in BLM
  35. I wonder how many of those C.I.’s are named”Fuzzy Dunlop”?

  36. ot At least the Cubs are trying to win. I wonder why the need of Fox to show only the Cub’s manager?

  37. @NOTA
    Lots of the arrests of terrorist in the US involve the Feds doing all the planning and providing the weapons and money, while some utterly hapless losers go along. On one hand, the kind of losers who fall into this kind of trap are probably not a great loss to the world when they end up in prison. On the other hand, they're mostly not people who could actually have managed any attack more complicated than "here's a gun, go shoot up that post office." Maybe not even that.

    I blame the English for this.

  38. @Almost Missouri

    "What about left-wing groups like BLM? Are government stooges in the majority too in the upper rungs of the organization?"
     
    Only if those organizations need logistics and support, but Soros and Hillary provide plenty of that, so I doubt it.

    Another thing is that Federal agencies like the FBI and ATF mainly employ young-to-middle-aged white guys, so if your organization looks like that, they're all set to infiltrate you. If your org is full of weedy Near Easterners or scabrous ghetto thugs, well, you can go your way unmolested by the Feds.

    These are CIs (confidential informants), not literal undercover FBI agents. However, going by some of the Mother Jones and Independent stories about shady FBI stings on Muslim screwups, it’s possible for them to be pretty extravagantly compensated (as in getting a year’s middle class salary). DC spending inflation goes a long way.

    I expect to see many more white knucklehead terror setups unless Trump both wins and somehow summons his inner Putin to ruthlessly clean house.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "However, going by some of the Mother Jones and Independent stories about shady FBI stings on Muslim screwups, it’s possible for them to be pretty extravagantly compensated (as in getting a year’s middle class salary). DC spending inflation goes a long way."

    Yeah, it is shocking to contemplate the vast amount of money that is being squandered by the national intelligence/surveilance/provocation state in this bogus war-on-terror.
    , @Kyle
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU

    They don't need to be accountable.
    nobody controls the government, and anybody who tries to control the government is vilified by the "other." we have no majority anymore. We are arbitrary lines on a map occupied by various warring tribes.
  39. @anonymous
    This is pretty typical, from undercover DOJ employees getting involved in the Trayvon 'protests' to infiltration of left and right wing groups. The government devotes a great deal of resources towards internal security and who ever knows what's a false flag and what isn't. So-called 'terrorist' plots that are triumphantly foiled just usually involve none too bright patsies surrounded by agents. It's all an amoral, dirty business. There's no shortage of willing executioners who'll do anything for a paycheck.

    “There’s no shortage of willing executioners who’ll do anything for a paycheck.”

    We are talking about federal employees here, so they might draw the line at being involved in any sort of plot that involves actual work.

    • Agree: Twinkie
  40. @Dr. X
    Here's a couple of cases of overpaid FBI agents with lots of time on their hands entrapping morons and idiots as supposed "terrorists":

    http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/local/columnists/andreatta/2016/01/05/andreatta-truthiness-emanuel-lutchman-islamic-state-isis-isil/78268492/

    http://buffalonews.com/2016/01/06/feds-defend-arrest-of-rochester-terror-suspect-amid-criticism-from-family/

    https://news.vice.com/article/this-kkk-guy-tried-to-build-an-x-ray-weapon-to-kill-muslims-and-obama-feds-say

    Hey, it’s a lot easier than investigating Hillary Clinton, and it’s more likely to lead to a promotion.

    GS-14s for everybody!

  41. “Nine Federal Informants Took Part in Bundy Occupation.”

    Nine FBI informants took part at least. Perhaps some of the other occupiers worked for other government agencies (or contractors thereof) who did not and never would admit their affiliation.

    Would anybody nowadays be surprised to find out that the CIA or the DIA or military intelligence operatives do this kind of thing too, even within the United States?

    • Replies: @Neoconned
    There's a LOTTA credible speculation that Tim McVeigh was some kind of DIA type spook infiltrating the militia nutters and the gun show crazies.....

    And then they either brainwashed him or the bomb was a sting that went awry and he admitted guilt out of shame for the murdered kids......he even told his sister he was doing "wetworks" for the federal govt....
  42. @Anonymous
    The government informant's alias was "John Killman"?! LOL! Did any of the other informants go by "Bob Klansman"?

    That is hilarious. Was the Mexican guy named Pepe Altrighter?

    • Replies: @guest
    That's too clever.
  43. People outside law enforcement always underestimate the number of informants there are. Pinkerton’s archives from the early 20th century give a good idea of how likely it is that a criminal or terrorist is a snitch. I think around half of all the major criminal figures were passing on information to the agency for money – including the “Napoleon of crime” Adam Worth, who may have been the inspiration for Holmes’s Dr Moriarty.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    Arthur Conan Doyle's Dr Moriarty, I should say.
  44. OT: The Secret Service is having trouble hiring candidates. Some of the current agents are working hundreds of hours for free once they have maxed out allowable overtime. The agency received 27,000 applications in fiscal year 2016 but only hired 300. People are being disqualified for non-prescription use of Adderall and illegal internet downloading.

    http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/10/26/secret-service-recruitment

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    OT: The Secret Service is having trouble hiring candidates. Some of the current agents are working hundreds of hours for free once they have maxed out allowable overtime. The agency received 27,000 applications in fiscal year 2016 but only hired 300. People are being disqualified for non-prescription use of Adderall and illegal internet downloading.
     
    The only way they find this info out is applicant is honest with them. If you think a poly will pick this up, please. Steve has written about what a joke the poly is. It's easy to beat, but I don't want to say how lest I be arrested and thrown in federal prison. Like Douglas Williams, a former police polygrapher, who wrote books and taught people how to beat it (until the Feds arrested him for spilling beans about its bogusness): http://polygraph.com
    , @countenance
    My guess is that the affirmative action imperative is the impetus for the high disqualification rate; that the candidates being DQed are white men, and that the S/S is fishing for any excuse to DQ white men. Let me put it to you this way -- If the candidate is anything but a white man, "use of Adderall" or "illegal downloading" would not DQ them.
    , @Forbes
    OK, call me naïve, but WTF is illegal internet downloading? A record of hacking computers? Napster? Are there searchable records of my computer from three laptops ago?
    , @Karl
    > People are being disqualified for non-prescription use of Adderall and illegal internet downloading


    when your officers are gonna get up-close-&-personal with SUCCESSFUL methods of pulling off counterfeiting and credit card fraud, you require the straightest of arrows in your quiver.....
  45. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    So was Killman an undercover agent or an informant? Informants are generally guys who are actually involved in a criminal organization or conspiracy and become informants to try to save their own asses. Whitey Bulger turned out to be an FBI informant, and apparently that helped him become a big time crime boss. He was able to use his position as an informant to eliminate his rivals and become a major crime figure and get away with his own crimes, which the FBI ignored because he was a valuable informant for them.

    If Killman wasn’t some bored adventurer who penetrated the Bundy occupation on his own for fun and became an informant, then what kind of undercover agent was he really? Is it normal for the FBI to hire guys with long careers in foreign militaries and apparently military intelligence (psy-ops) for undercover assignments? Switzerland isn’t a part of NATO, so I’m not sure how much regular cooperation there even is between the US and Swiss militaries at the normal level.

    Or is the Swiss army story itself just a cover for an FBI undercover agent? Or perhaps for a CIA agent who penetrated both the FBI and the Bundy occupation, or just the Bundy occupation unbeknownst to the FBI?

    • Replies: @Neoconned
    Sounds like Andreas Strassmeir.....son of a prominent political family in Europe who goes randomly to bumholes out in places like rural Oklahoma or the desert of West Texas to hang out with militia nuts and KKK wannabes......

    Then he vanishes into Mexico after the ATF discovers he was an illegal immigrant building and exploding fertilizer bombs in Elohim City.....

    He was like this Swiss guy....some kind of unemployable ex military type who came shopping his skills to the Pentagon or the alphabet intelligence agencies.....
    , @Olorin
    Consider for starters that Switzerland is perennially neutral and has all that gelt.

    In that piece PJ O'Rourke did in '76 for National Lampoon--the bigotry issue--he described the Swiss as "Mountain Jews in whose icy clutches lay the fruits of grave misdeeds committed in every clime."

    Put http: and two backslashes in front of this:

    imgur.com/gallery/H1X8R

    (I didn't want to embed it here.)

    Since that has been my holy writ on all things racial since high school, the Swiss connection (and Italiano name!) caught my attention as well.

    BTW, his Tweets are protected.

    https://twitter.com/minoggiof

  46. You know these junior G-Men have been watching too many movies. Undercover ops don’t do much for any court cases, and all these gung-ho fakers could just possibly cause one of these stand-offs to blow up enough to start a mass uprising. These Deadhead Feds are really playing with fire, and everyone should realize by now that the whole country is a giant powderkeg. The standoff with the other guys at the Bundy Ranch came damn close to seeing Feds going home in bags. They better realize they aren’t in any position to push anymore. The Military isn’t going to back them up and the cops are probably pretty pissed they’re getting shot with Administration and Media on the side of the perps instead of them. This government has less and less support every day. This is not going to turn out well.

  47. @anony-mouse
    Shouldn't you be more concerned about your fellow writers at Unz.com?

    Why don’t you enlighten the rest of us with some well-sunsteined evidence for your claims?

    Let me help you with Seven Unknown Knowns True or False Game:

    1.The Saker is saking directly to the Gremlin from Kremlin.

    2. Karlin is not a really a ‘rouble-maker, but at this point still uncertified Virginia Farm Boy’s benefit recipient.

    3. Giraldi in reality had never received his retirement watch from Langley.

    4. Shamir is shamelessly double-dipping in Collections Departments of should-I-even-have-to-say-which-two-countries.

    5. Mercer is South-African Mercerary libertarianicly eBaying her honey trapping skills to the highest principals bidder.

    6. Finkelstein used to be useful to Tel Aviv only because of his rolodex .

    7. Late Cockburn, just like the rest of his clan, was always an uncocked, back-burning asset of Section 6.

    Who else?

    Almost forgot:

    Unz is unwittingly accepting financial support from the very same peeps that used to pamper Gloria Steinem, and Sailer sold all our personal info, so he can maintain exuberant lifestyle and shower his wife with one-percenters gifts such as a brand new dishwasher !*

    ( *Dare you to run fact- check on this one)

  48. @Mr. Anon
    "Nine Federal Informants Took Part in Bundy Occupation."

    Nine FBI informants took part at least. Perhaps some of the other occupiers worked for other government agencies (or contractors thereof) who did not and never would admit their affiliation.

    Would anybody nowadays be surprised to find out that the CIA or the DIA or military intelligence operatives do this kind of thing too, even within the United States?

    There’s a LOTTA credible speculation that Tim McVeigh was some kind of DIA type spook infiltrating the militia nutters and the gun show crazies…..

    And then they either brainwashed him or the bomb was a sting that went awry and he admitted guilt out of shame for the murdered kids……he even told his sister he was doing “wetworks” for the federal govt….

    • Replies: @Josh
    This is what he video like no I showed is about. it's really good.
    , @Mr. Anon
    There was a lot of fishy stuff surrounding the militia movement of the early-mid 90s and the OKC bombing.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    The whole thing about blaming it all on Tim McVeigh did not make any sense. The guy was dumber than a box of rocks. There was one reporter who said that there were a few Middle Eastern types involved but she was ignored. Clinton and the MSM, but I repeat myself, were delighted to blame this on white guys emboldened by the hate speech of Rush Limbaugh, blah blah blah.
    , @utu
    Oklahoma City could have been a false flag to blame muslims but for some reasons was derailed.
  49. @Anonymous
    So was Killman an undercover agent or an informant? Informants are generally guys who are actually involved in a criminal organization or conspiracy and become informants to try to save their own asses. Whitey Bulger turned out to be an FBI informant, and apparently that helped him become a big time crime boss. He was able to use his position as an informant to eliminate his rivals and become a major crime figure and get away with his own crimes, which the FBI ignored because he was a valuable informant for them.

    If Killman wasn't some bored adventurer who penetrated the Bundy occupation on his own for fun and became an informant, then what kind of undercover agent was he really? Is it normal for the FBI to hire guys with long careers in foreign militaries and apparently military intelligence (psy-ops) for undercover assignments? Switzerland isn't a part of NATO, so I'm not sure how much regular cooperation there even is between the US and Swiss militaries at the normal level.

    Or is the Swiss army story itself just a cover for an FBI undercover agent? Or perhaps for a CIA agent who penetrated both the FBI and the Bundy occupation, or just the Bundy occupation unbeknownst to the FBI?

    Sounds like Andreas Strassmeir…..son of a prominent political family in Europe who goes randomly to bumholes out in places like rural Oklahoma or the desert of West Texas to hang out with militia nuts and KKK wannabes……

    Then he vanishes into Mexico after the ATF discovers he was an illegal immigrant building and exploding fertilizer bombs in Elohim City…..

    He was like this Swiss guy….some kind of unemployable ex military type who came shopping his skills to the Pentagon or the alphabet intelligence agencies…..

  50. Any of the informants named Priss Factor?

    I ask only because Ron caught PF using 300+ aliases here (see the Announcements thread) and that sounds like a Federal gig.

    Haha, you’ve got to be of a particular bent to think PF is a gov’t plant. Specifically, it seems to be something the anti-war crowd would think. That would make for the odd required mix of extremist, but still politically correct, views (everyone I’ve ever seen calling PF an agent provocateur has been an anti-war type. They call everyone on their side of the ideological fence with any whiff of “ANTI-SEMITISM!!!” agents provocateur; they’re very uncomfortable with the natural outcomes of their thinking).

    PF makes essentially no effort to hide his rather distinct style. Quite the opposite, you can always tell when it’s PF (actually, I keep thinking Anon is PF, so YMMV). And he’s sure as shit not pushing anything the feds would want pushed. They want stupid bad guys, PF is the opposite. My guess is, he basically changed names as a personality tic.

    • Replies: @utu
    "And he’s sure as shit not pushing anything the feds would want pushed. " - I think he is for the official explanation of 9/11.

    "you can always tell when it’s PF " Not when he hides his style.
  51. @Danindc
    That is hilarious. Was the Mexican guy named Pepe Altrighter?

    That’s too clever.

    • Replies: @Danindc
    Too cute by half...
  52. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Triumph104
    OT: The Secret Service is having trouble hiring candidates. Some of the current agents are working hundreds of hours for free once they have maxed out allowable overtime. The agency received 27,000 applications in fiscal year 2016 but only hired 300. People are being disqualified for non-prescription use of Adderall and illegal internet downloading.


    http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/10/26/secret-service-recruitment

    OT: The Secret Service is having trouble hiring candidates. Some of the current agents are working hundreds of hours for free once they have maxed out allowable overtime. The agency received 27,000 applications in fiscal year 2016 but only hired 300. People are being disqualified for non-prescription use of Adderall and illegal internet downloading.

    The only way they find this info out is applicant is honest with them. If you think a poly will pick this up, please. Steve has written about what a joke the poly is. It’s easy to beat, but I don’t want to say how lest I be arrested and thrown in federal prison. Like Douglas Williams, a former police polygrapher, who wrote books and taught people how to beat it (until the Feds arrested him for spilling beans about its bogusness): http://polygraph.com

  53. @Anonymous
    Yeah I remember the liberal narrative in places like Slate and the Washington post for a week was "we would be calling the people terrorists if they weren't white". Now it looks even sillier now that about a quarter of these people were moles. I guess the hunt for the great white violent uprising continues...


    On a different subject, I think I've found Tiny Duck's favorite Youtuber:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrKMZkabAuE

    Actually, that is Tiny.

    Or anyway my mental image of him/them.

    • LOL: Seamus Padraig
  54. @Lugash
    As we used to say in my militia days, how do you know someone is an undercover fed? He's the one always offering you dynamite.

    Or badgering you as their gunsmith to cut the shotgun barrel .1″ shorter than federal and state laws allow.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    And then shooting your wife through the head after killing your son. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Weaver

    No one, repeat no one, was punished for this or the deaths of the Branch Davidians.
  55. @Anonymous
    So was Killman an undercover agent or an informant? Informants are generally guys who are actually involved in a criminal organization or conspiracy and become informants to try to save their own asses. Whitey Bulger turned out to be an FBI informant, and apparently that helped him become a big time crime boss. He was able to use his position as an informant to eliminate his rivals and become a major crime figure and get away with his own crimes, which the FBI ignored because he was a valuable informant for them.

    If Killman wasn't some bored adventurer who penetrated the Bundy occupation on his own for fun and became an informant, then what kind of undercover agent was he really? Is it normal for the FBI to hire guys with long careers in foreign militaries and apparently military intelligence (psy-ops) for undercover assignments? Switzerland isn't a part of NATO, so I'm not sure how much regular cooperation there even is between the US and Swiss militaries at the normal level.

    Or is the Swiss army story itself just a cover for an FBI undercover agent? Or perhaps for a CIA agent who penetrated both the FBI and the Bundy occupation, or just the Bundy occupation unbeknownst to the FBI?

    Consider for starters that Switzerland is perennially neutral and has all that gelt.

    In that piece PJ O’Rourke did in ’76 for National Lampoon–the bigotry issue–he described the Swiss as “Mountain Jews in whose icy clutches lay the fruits of grave misdeeds committed in every clime.”

    Put http: and two backslashes in front of this:

    imgur.com/gallery/H1X8R

    (I didn’t want to embed it here.)

    Since that has been my holy writ on all things racial since high school, the Swiss connection (and Italiano name!) caught my attention as well.

    BTW, his Tweets are protected.

  56. How do you tell government informants from agents provocateur?

    Obviously the distinction is blurred, and is intended to be. I’m amazed that the prosecutors aren’t obliged to reveal who the informants are. It sounds crazy.

  57. @Lugash
    As we used to say in my militia days, how do you know someone is an undercover fed? He's the one always offering you dynamite.

    As we used to say in my militia days, how do you know someone is an undercover fed? He’s the one always offering you dynamite.

    Especially with white power slogans.

    I belong to a group of guys who go precision shooting at long distances (it’s always a fun day when someone brings a 50 cal BMG Barrett – and then someone else says, I brought one too!). The group leans pretty hardcore right, and is prone to more than occasional of anti-government chatter. The funny thing is that most of the guys are ex- or present federal LE or intel community as well as contractors who were SOCOM “operators.”

  58. @anony-mouse
    Shouldn't you be more concerned about your fellow writers at Unz.com?

    Langley actually is my name. Honest.

  59. @NOTA
    I'm sure there are infiltrators in BLM, and were in Occupy as well. It's a natural tactic for keeping an eye on protesting/dissenting groups, either to make sure they're not doing anything illegal, or to attack them in various ways.

    I’ve seen some purported 9-11 Truthers who sure seem like informants and/or agents provocateurs.

    Some of them seem to be spreading ridiculous theories in order to discredit by association anyone who questions anything about the official story.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "Some of them seem to be spreading ridiculous theories in order to discredit by association anyone who questions anything about the official story."

    Ever stop to consider that the whole 9/11 "Truth" thing was promulgated in order to discredit - oh, I don't know - any notion that we should stop muslim immigration or immigration of any kind. Ever stop to think that the whole "false-flag" meme is itself - largely - a false flag.
  60. @Paul Mendez
    Q: How can you spot the undercover FBI informant in a militia group?

    A: He's the only one who knows how to get his hands on real dynamite.

    --------------

    Q: How can you spot the undercover FBI informant in a KKK meeting?

    A: He's the only one whose dues are paid in full for the whole year.

    No joke on the first one. There was a story on NPR a few years back about the moral quandry caused by an FBI agent who’d infiltrated a bunch of grouchy, tough-talking but diabetic + asthmatic old anti-govt. vets. Hey I know a guy who can get explosives! And also, someone who could rig it all up! He’s done – want to do the honors of calling this number on this cellphone, to detonate it all?

    Sure they talked violent, but how real of a threat were they? I don’t remember what happened to them.

  61. OT. All the hype about The Birth Of A Nation seems to have passed quietly. Can’t have too much trouble with the teens this close to the election . Plus no one is going to see it.http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=thebirthofanation.htm

    • Replies: @bomag

    All the hype about The Birth Of A Nation seems to have passed quietly
     
    Watch for it to be added to the loop of "educational" films our students are required to watch, multiple times, to learn what "really" happened.
    , @Seth Largo
    Meanwhile, Boo! A Madea Halloween took the top weekend spot with 28mil.
  62. @Anonymous
    Yeah I remember the liberal narrative in places like Slate and the Washington post for a week was "we would be calling the people terrorists if they weren't white". Now it looks even sillier now that about a quarter of these people were moles. I guess the hunt for the great white violent uprising continues...


    On a different subject, I think I've found Tiny Duck's favorite Youtuber:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrKMZkabAuE

    …Duck’s favorite Youtuber

    She refers to Whites as “evil albinos”. At the 14.00 mark, in a crescendo to her frenzy of reciting Black accomplishment, she announces that Henry Ford stole the concept of the automobile from a Black lady.

    It is said that Newton’s math professor resigned his post and recommended Newton as the replacement. At the Barack School of Racial Grievance, I’m sure the teachers would resign so this lady could teach all the subjects.

    • Replies: @RonaldB
    Correction.

    She doesn't refer to "evil albinos". She refers to "evil ablinoids".

    Your mistake was purposeful, and part of the concerted white conspiracy to oppress blacks and deny their true place in history.
    , @SPMoore8
    In her recitation of "evil albinoids" and her rant about how "even Henry Ford wouldn't have developed the car without this black lady" our hostess confuses Meredith Gourdine (an AA male) with a woman (Hey, I did that myself this week based on internet results). She also messed up the timeline, because Meredith Charles "Flash" Gourdine had dates of 1929 to 1998, that is, about 50 years after Nikolaus Otto invented the internal combustion engine, and (of course) began the deadly course of Global Warming ...... (Gourdine was an interesting guy, also got a silver at Helsinki in 1952.)

    Like a four hour baseball game, I think this 25 minute lecture is about 20 minutes too long.
  63. @Dave32
    OT. All the hype about The Birth Of A Nation seems to have passed quietly. Can't have too much trouble with the teens this close to the election . Plus no one is going to see it.http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=thebirthofanation.htm

    All the hype about The Birth Of A Nation seems to have passed quietly

    Watch for it to be added to the loop of “educational” films our students are required to watch, multiple times, to learn what “really” happened.

  64. How do you tell government informants from agents provocateur?

    Be a member of an inbred ethnic group where you know everyone’s pedigree back to 1600 and traitors will have their entire family ostracised from your ethnic community?

    More far side

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.
    , @Anonymous
    Don't underestimate them.

    They trace their pedigree back to, at the least, the mid-14th century.
    I have seen it boasted about.
  65. Josh says:

    This may be the best conspiracy video I have seen. The premise sounds ridiculous, but by the end you realize how little you actually can know about anything. Anyway, it goes into some specifics about what is known in the public record about FBI agents provocateurs in the militia movements of the 90s.

    • Replies: @DCThrowback
    Thanks for this. Corbett Report is great. Check the lewrockwell.com archives for some great interviews w/ the Trentadue attorney and by all means read Jayna Davis's "The third terrorist" to understand exactly the stuff that was brushed under the carpet by the official narrative.
  66. @Hippopotamusdrome


    How do you tell government informants from agents provocateur?

     

    Be a member of an inbred ethnic group where you know everyone's pedigree back to 1600 and traitors will have their entire family ostracised from your ethnic community?

    More far side

    Thanks.

  67. @anonymous
    This is pretty typical, from undercover DOJ employees getting involved in the Trayvon 'protests' to infiltration of left and right wing groups. The government devotes a great deal of resources towards internal security and who ever knows what's a false flag and what isn't. So-called 'terrorist' plots that are triumphantly foiled just usually involve none too bright patsies surrounded by agents. It's all an amoral, dirty business. There's no shortage of willing executioners who'll do anything for a paycheck.

    So-called ‘terrorist’ plots that are triumphantly foiled just usually involve none too bright patsies surrounded by agents.

    Why not just leave out the “patsies” part and just have an agent do it? Relying on a patsy introduces uncertainty and risk to an operation.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    They don't want an actual terrorist bombing, they just want to be able to take credit for stopping one.
  68. Steve: Hope you won’t find this pedantic, but the plural of agent provocateur is agents provocateurs. If the noun (agents) is plural, then its accompanying adjective (provocateurs) has to be plural.

    Of course, you already knew that.

    • Replies: @anonguy

    Steve: Hope you won’t find this pedantic, but the plural of agent provocateur is agents provocateurs. If the noun (agents) is plural, then its accompanying adjective (provocateurs) has to be plural.

    Of course, you already knew that.
     
    Of course, then, plural of court martial is courts martials you f**king dumbf*ck?

    Plurals of expressions with postpositives...

    Get a life...

    Steve, appreciating your tia.
  69. @Hippopotamusdrome


    So-called ‘terrorist’ plots that are triumphantly foiled just usually involve none too bright patsies surrounded by agents.

     

    Why not just leave out the "patsies" part and just have an agent do it? Relying on a patsy introduces uncertainty and risk to an operation.

    They don’t want an actual terrorist bombing, they just want to be able to take credit for stopping one.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
    Even then. No one is going to check a few years later to make sure the guy they caught is still actually in jail.
  70. @Rob McX
    People outside law enforcement always underestimate the number of informants there are. Pinkerton's archives from the early 20th century give a good idea of how likely it is that a criminal or terrorist is a snitch. I think around half of all the major criminal figures were passing on information to the agency for money - including the "Napoleon of crime" Adam Worth, who may have been the inspiration for Holmes's Dr Moriarty.

    Arthur Conan Doyle’s Dr Moriarty, I should say.

  71. How much you wanna bet the Oklahoma City bombing back in 1995 was basically an agent provacateur situation, with Tim McVeigh & Friends being lured into it by the Fibbies?

    Despite the government’s insistence that the case has been solved, we don’t know the exact origin of the plot or how many people carried it out. The federal indictment against McVeigh and Nichols … made specific mention of “others unknown”, and when their trials were almost over, the presiding judge publicly urged the FBI and other law enforcement agencies to keep investigating. The plea fell largely on deaf ears.

    The above is from The Guardian, of all sources! (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/13/oklahoma-city-bombing-20-years-later-key-questions-remain-unanswered)

  72. “agents provocateur”?

    An FBI undercover agent was present at the mohammed cartoon Texas shooting and was relaying vital security information to a bad guy…

    https://theintercept.com/2016/08/04/fbi-had-undercover-agent-at-scene-of-draw-muhammad-shooting-in-garland/

    Clearly, criminal behavior, and at the last minute they panicked and sent authorities a photo of one of the shooters. Many people could have been killed that evening ( if it weren’t for for a sharp shooting local cop) and the FBI’s footprint would have vanished. How many shooting have there been where the FBI had this kind of involvement. The FBI is clearly out of control and has gone rogue.

    My brother was a DEA agent and he stated that whenever an informant testified in court the government was obligated to turn over that information to the defense along with any information that went to the credibility of the informant, i.e. caught lying. If requested by the defense, the DEA informant file had to be provided for “in-camera” review.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    That's why an "informant" almost never testifies--their credibility is highly suspect as they're usually dirty. Informants provide information that government agents could never obtain--or obtain legally--such as the time and place of a criminal act, so the perpetrators are caught in the act.
  73. @Triumph104
    OT: The Secret Service is having trouble hiring candidates. Some of the current agents are working hundreds of hours for free once they have maxed out allowable overtime. The agency received 27,000 applications in fiscal year 2016 but only hired 300. People are being disqualified for non-prescription use of Adderall and illegal internet downloading.


    http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/10/26/secret-service-recruitment

    My guess is that the affirmative action imperative is the impetus for the high disqualification rate; that the candidates being DQed are white men, and that the S/S is fishing for any excuse to DQ white men. Let me put it to you this way — If the candidate is anything but a white man, “use of Adderall” or “illegal downloading” would not DQ them.

  74. @Neoconned
    There's a LOTTA credible speculation that Tim McVeigh was some kind of DIA type spook infiltrating the militia nutters and the gun show crazies.....

    And then they either brainwashed him or the bomb was a sting that went awry and he admitted guilt out of shame for the murdered kids......he even told his sister he was doing "wetworks" for the federal govt....

    This is what he video like no I showed is about. it’s really good.

  75. @NOTA
    I'm sure there are infiltrators in BLM, and were in Occupy as well. It's a natural tactic for keeping an eye on protesting/dissenting groups, either to make sure they're not doing anything illegal, or to attack them in various ways.

    “I’m sure there are infiltrators in BLM”

    You think the White House wants to suppress BLM? When Obama and Hillary regularly go on television to support them?

    “It’s a natural tactic for keeping an eye on protesting/dissenting groups”

    When you’re “protest” is the official party line, it is hard to be “dissenting”.

    “to make sure they’re not doing anything illegal”

    Such as murdering police officers? Yeah, they prevented that pretty well … oh, wait!

    • Replies: @utu
    Who within BLM came up with the idea to make solidarity with Palestinians part of their official policy?
  76. See also The Man Who Was Thursday by G.K. Chesterton.

    The central council of European anarchists consists of seven men, each of whom uses a different day of the week as his cover name. The man who was Thursday discovers that, like him, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday are also [spoiler alert]

  77. @JohnnyWalker123
    https://twitter.com/WesleyRickard/status/791437461855408128

    Hillary's America.

    Sorry that page does n0t exist. Speedy lil rascals aren’t they.

  78. @guest
    That's too clever.

    Too cute by half…

  79. @Not Raul
    I've seen some purported 9-11 Truthers who sure seem like informants and/or agents provocateurs.

    Some of them seem to be spreading ridiculous theories in order to discredit by association anyone who questions anything about the official story.

    “Some of them seem to be spreading ridiculous theories in order to discredit by association anyone who questions anything about the official story.”

    Ever stop to consider that the whole 9/11 “Truth” thing was promulgated in order to discredit – oh, I don’t know – any notion that we should stop muslim immigration or immigration of any kind. Ever stop to think that the whole “false-flag” meme is itself – largely – a false flag.

  80. @Neoconned
    There's a LOTTA credible speculation that Tim McVeigh was some kind of DIA type spook infiltrating the militia nutters and the gun show crazies.....

    And then they either brainwashed him or the bomb was a sting that went awry and he admitted guilt out of shame for the murdered kids......he even told his sister he was doing "wetworks" for the federal govt....

    There was a lot of fishy stuff surrounding the militia movement of the early-mid 90s and the OKC bombing.

  81. @abner
    These are CIs (confidential informants), not literal undercover FBI agents. However, going by some of the Mother Jones and Independent stories about shady FBI stings on Muslim screwups, it's possible for them to be pretty extravagantly compensated (as in getting a year's middle class salary). DC spending inflation goes a long way.

    I expect to see many more white knucklehead terror setups unless Trump both wins and somehow summons his inner Putin to ruthlessly clean house.

    “However, going by some of the Mother Jones and Independent stories about shady FBI stings on Muslim screwups, it’s possible for them to be pretty extravagantly compensated (as in getting a year’s middle class salary). DC spending inflation goes a long way.”

    Yeah, it is shocking to contemplate the vast amount of money that is being squandered by the national intelligence/surveilance/provocation state in this bogus war-on-terror.

  82. @JohnnyWalker123
    Bill Clinton's illegitimate son Danny Williams. Danny was conceived during an encounter between Bill and a black prostitute.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5VInBAEIGM

    *alleged. This would be more believable if 1/ there was some past black women who came forward and say they also were w/ Bill and 2/ Bill has no history of paying for it, especially w/ black women. He was a man of power, I am sure the fun was in the conquest…many times consensual, a few times maybe not so much. This smacks so much of a “fake conspiracy” to keep us from the real shit that actually went down with the crime family. What’s amazing about the Clintons is too much is never enough; you know, most people would be happy with, say, $25M and a house in Chappaqua, but for them it appears that the fun is in the game!

    (Remember, they are protected on high by the prince of darkness because of their work in the 80s for the CIA in the Mena/Contras operation. They know where the bodies are buried and are still cashing those metaphorical ‘chits’ in the game.

  83. @NOTA
    They don't want an actual terrorist bombing, they just want to be able to take credit for stopping one.

    Even then. No one is going to check a few years later to make sure the guy they caught is still actually in jail.

  84. @Almost Missouri

    "What about left-wing groups like BLM? Are government stooges in the majority too in the upper rungs of the organization?"
     
    Only if those organizations need logistics and support, but Soros and Hillary provide plenty of that, so I doubt it.

    Another thing is that Federal agencies like the FBI and ATF mainly employ young-to-middle-aged white guys, so if your organization looks like that, they're all set to infiltrate you. If your org is full of weedy Near Easterners or scabrous ghetto thugs, well, you can go your way unmolested by the Feds.

    Just find an informant then

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Okay, but the finding of the informant is surely easier when he resembles you, and the informing part of the informant is doubtless likewise more productive when the informant has a shared background with the handler.

    So it's really still the same problem in a slightly different format.

  85. I remember reading that the Tsar’s secret police had completely infiltrated the leadership positions of all of the underground resistance movements in pre-revolution Russia. As we know in the end it didn’t stop the Tsar from being overthrown.

    • Replies: @BB753
    Hitler himself was an informant hired to infiltrate far-right veteran groups in Munich. We know how that ended up as well.
  86. @Neoconned
    There's a LOTTA credible speculation that Tim McVeigh was some kind of DIA type spook infiltrating the militia nutters and the gun show crazies.....

    And then they either brainwashed him or the bomb was a sting that went awry and he admitted guilt out of shame for the murdered kids......he even told his sister he was doing "wetworks" for the federal govt....

    The whole thing about blaming it all on Tim McVeigh did not make any sense. The guy was dumber than a box of rocks. There was one reporter who said that there were a few Middle Eastern types involved but she was ignored. Clinton and the MSM, but I repeat myself, were delighted to blame this on white guys emboldened by the hate speech of Rush Limbaugh, blah blah blah.

  87. @Almost Missouri

    "I’m sure there are infiltrators in BLM"
     
    You think the White House wants to suppress BLM? When Obama and Hillary regularly go on television to support them?

    "It’s a natural tactic for keeping an eye on protesting/dissenting groups"
     
    When you're "protest" is the official party line, it is hard to be "dissenting".

    "to make sure they’re not doing anything illegal"
     
    Such as murdering police officers? Yeah, they prevented that pretty well ... oh, wait!

    Who within BLM came up with the idea to make solidarity with Palestinians part of their official policy?

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Beats the ···· outta me. I didn't even know they had an "official policy". I see them more as a free-floating riot.
  88. @Olorin
    Or badgering you as their gunsmith to cut the shotgun barrel .1" shorter than federal and state laws allow.

    And then shooting your wife through the head after killing your son. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Weaver

    No one, repeat no one, was punished for this or the deaths of the Branch Davidians.

    • Replies: @Olorin
    That is correct.

    https://goodbyeamericainaphoto.wordpress.com/2014/07/26/crosshairs-on-america/
  89. @Svigor

    Any of the informants named Priss Factor?

    I ask only because Ron caught PF using 300+ aliases here (see the Announcements thread) and that sounds like a Federal gig.
     
    Haha, you've got to be of a particular bent to think PF is a gov't plant. Specifically, it seems to be something the anti-war crowd would think. That would make for the odd required mix of extremist, but still politically correct, views (everyone I've ever seen calling PF an agent provocateur has been an anti-war type. They call everyone on their side of the ideological fence with any whiff of "ANTI-SEMITISM!!!" agents provocateur; they're very uncomfortable with the natural outcomes of their thinking).

    PF makes essentially no effort to hide his rather distinct style. Quite the opposite, you can always tell when it's PF (actually, I keep thinking Anon is PF, so YMMV). And he's sure as shit not pushing anything the feds would want pushed. They want stupid bad guys, PF is the opposite. My guess is, he basically changed names as a personality tic.

    “And he’s sure as shit not pushing anything the feds would want pushed. ” – I think he is for the official explanation of 9/11.

    “you can always tell when it’s PF ” Not when he hides his style.

  90. “We are dealing here with a situation of a confidential informant who is participating in the commission of the alleged offense,” defense lawyer Marcus Mumford said in court.

    The FBI apparently missed the advice from your old buddy Charlie Chan in Shadows Over Chinatown:

    “Never bait trap with wolf to catch wolf.”

  91. @Neoconned
    There's a LOTTA credible speculation that Tim McVeigh was some kind of DIA type spook infiltrating the militia nutters and the gun show crazies.....

    And then they either brainwashed him or the bomb was a sting that went awry and he admitted guilt out of shame for the murdered kids......he even told his sister he was doing "wetworks" for the federal govt....

    Oklahoma City could have been a false flag to blame muslims but for some reasons was derailed.

  92. @Dave32
    OT. All the hype about The Birth Of A Nation seems to have passed quietly. Can't have too much trouble with the teens this close to the election . Plus no one is going to see it.http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=thebirthofanation.htm

    Meanwhile, Boo! A Madea Halloween took the top weekend spot with 28mil.

  93. This validates the pervasive Patriot Movement COINTEL paranoia that paralyzed the movement from the mid-1990’s onward.

    • Replies: @Neoconned
    Andreas Strassmeir was probably like this Swiss guy.....

    He had traveled to Israel in the early 90s for ambiguous reasons even though he was a German....

    Few yrs later he started randomly turning up at strange off the wall militia camps tryinb to provoke them to set off explosivea and shit like that.

    A German Mossad agent or perhaps just a rogue gun for hire? Either way his cover was almost too perfect. After all who's more authentic as a Nazi than a German?

    The fact his dad was a top official to then German Chancellor Helmut Kohl doesn't add any less suspicion to him or the fact he was probably on loan to the DOJ thru some NATO or Interpol arrangement
  94. @bomag

    ...Duck’s favorite Youtuber
     
    She refers to Whites as "evil albinos". At the 14.00 mark, in a crescendo to her frenzy of reciting Black accomplishment, she announces that Henry Ford stole the concept of the automobile from a Black lady.

    It is said that Newton's math professor resigned his post and recommended Newton as the replacement. At the Barack School of Racial Grievance, I'm sure the teachers would resign so this lady could teach all the subjects.

    Correction.

    She doesn’t refer to “evil albinos”. She refers to “evil ablinoids”.

    Your mistake was purposeful, and part of the concerted white conspiracy to oppress blacks and deny their true place in history.

  95. @Josh
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgfi1QZILxk

    This may be the best conspiracy video I have seen. The premise sounds ridiculous, but by the end you realize how little you actually can know about anything. Anyway, it goes into some specifics about what is known in the public record about FBI agents provocateurs in the militia movements of the 90s.

    Thanks for this. Corbett Report is great. Check the lewrockwell.com archives for some great interviews w/ the Trentadue attorney and by all means read Jayna Davis’s “The third terrorist” to understand exactly the stuff that was brushed under the carpet by the official narrative.

  96. @Jim Don Bob
    And then shooting your wife through the head after killing your son. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Weaver

    No one, repeat no one, was punished for this or the deaths of the Branch Davidians.
  97. @Anonymous
    The government informant's alias was "John Killman"?! LOL! Did any of the other informants go by "Bob Klansman"?

    And ‘Killman’ spoke in a “French or South African” accent (meaning ESL). Why on earth would anyone embrace such a foreign character in a uniquely US federal constitutional protest?

  98. @Triumph104
    OT: The Secret Service is having trouble hiring candidates. Some of the current agents are working hundreds of hours for free once they have maxed out allowable overtime. The agency received 27,000 applications in fiscal year 2016 but only hired 300. People are being disqualified for non-prescription use of Adderall and illegal internet downloading.


    http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/10/26/secret-service-recruitment

    OK, call me naïve, but WTF is illegal internet downloading? A record of hacking computers? Napster? Are there searchable records of my computer from three laptops ago?

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    I dunno, maybe one of those sites your browser tells you not to go to?

    It sounds to me like an in between question, i.e., not the innocuous control questions ("What's your name?"), nor the the killshot questions ("Are you a terrorist?"). My understanding is that the polygrapher asks about something sub-feloniously naughty most people have done, but aren't proud about in order to get a midline result. Only in this case they seem to be using it as a disqualifier.

    Well, of course they're gonna be short of candidates if visiting the wrong website or opening the wrong pill bottle is a disqualifier.

  99. @voltairewasright
    I remember reading that the Tsar's secret police had completely infiltrated the leadership positions of all of the underground resistance movements in pre-revolution Russia. As we know in the end it didn't stop the Tsar from being overthrown.

    Hitler himself was an informant hired to infiltrate far-right veteran groups in Munich. We know how that ended up as well.

  100. @jill
    "agents provocateur"?

    An FBI undercover agent was present at the mohammed cartoon Texas shooting and was relaying vital security information to a bad guy...

    https://theintercept.com/2016/08/04/fbi-had-undercover-agent-at-scene-of-draw-muhammad-shooting-in-garland/

    Clearly, criminal behavior, and at the last minute they panicked and sent authorities a photo of one of the shooters. Many people could have been killed that evening ( if it weren't for for a sharp shooting local cop) and the FBI's footprint would have vanished. How many shooting have there been where the FBI had this kind of involvement. The FBI is clearly out of control and has gone rogue.

    My brother was a DEA agent and he stated that whenever an informant testified in court the government was obligated to turn over that information to the defense along with any information that went to the credibility of the informant, i.e. caught lying. If requested by the defense, the DEA informant file had to be provided for "in-camera" review.

    That’s why an “informant” almost never testifies–their credibility is highly suspect as they’re usually dirty. Informants provide information that government agents could never obtain–or obtain legally–such as the time and place of a criminal act, so the perpetrators are caught in the act.

  101. @Anonymous
    I've heard that about the present day klan ( all 15 of them) , 14 are undercover FBI. Our gov, always fighting yesterday's battles. NPR gave this story lots of coverage, they really hate it when the subjects defy their ( NPR' s) beloved state.

    I’ve heard that about the present day klan ( all 15 of them) , 14 are undercover FBI.

    Almost the same situation with “outlaw bikers.” It gives White “undercover” feds something to do, and prosecutors get their “great White defendant.” And then they all get to embellish their stories on Dateline or the Investigation Discovery channel after they retire and move on as PIs or head of security for some bank.

  102. @Anonymous
    Yeah I remember the liberal narrative in places like Slate and the Washington post for a week was "we would be calling the people terrorists if they weren't white". Now it looks even sillier now that about a quarter of these people were moles. I guess the hunt for the great white violent uprising continues...


    On a different subject, I think I've found Tiny Duck's favorite Youtuber:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrKMZkabAuE

    I think I’ve found Tiny Duck’s favorite Youtuber

    I clicked stop play at 0:15 when she used the word “improve” for the word “approve.” Well, that and I couldn’t take her nasal whine any longer than that.

  103. @Bill P

    How do you tell government informants from agents provocateur?
     
    Umm, aren't they the same thing these days?

    Half the arrests of Muslims are of people who were prodded into some act of terrorism. Gotta wonder how many people have actually been killed when feds slipped up and didn't keep a close enough eye on the people they radicalized. I doubt that's intelligence that would be shared with the general public in any trial.

    You'd think "radicals" would vet their members, but I honestly don't think the Bundys and most others at the Malheur office actually thought they were committing a serious crime.

    Gotta wonder how many people have actually been killed when feds slipped up

    Not an all-to-infrequent occurrence when they’re doing drug investigations, including the cases where, based on faulty intel, SWAT hits the wrong house and blasts some innocent half-asleep guy in his underwear or some 80-year old grandmother. But these collateral damages are usually poor blacks and poor, rural Whites, so…

    SS has briefed us on the quiet case not long ago of the DEA agent murdering some 20-something in the back of some retail parking lot over a couple of ounces of weed.

  104. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Gary T Rowe was an FBI informant infiltrator who was in the car from which the shots that killed Viola Liuzzo came from. He may have been the one who actually instigated the incident and may have been the one who did the actual shooting. He was also involved in some other highly publicized violent incidents that became notorious. Federal infiltrators were also involved in the 1979 Greensboro massacre where one drove the lead car bringing the participants to the demonstration which resulted in the ensuing confrontation. Lots of examples abound.

  105. Remember those pathetic Hutarre Militia members. Thank god they had a judge with some brains or they surely would have been railroaded. They were basically guilty of sitting around a campfire getting dring and one-upping each other with stories of what they were GOING to do – if they avar bothered to get up off their asses.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/28/us/hutaree-militia-members-acquitted-of-sedition.html?_r=0

  106. @bomag

    ...Duck’s favorite Youtuber
     
    She refers to Whites as "evil albinos". At the 14.00 mark, in a crescendo to her frenzy of reciting Black accomplishment, she announces that Henry Ford stole the concept of the automobile from a Black lady.

    It is said that Newton's math professor resigned his post and recommended Newton as the replacement. At the Barack School of Racial Grievance, I'm sure the teachers would resign so this lady could teach all the subjects.

    In her recitation of “evil albinoids” and her rant about how “even Henry Ford wouldn’t have developed the car without this black lady” our hostess confuses Meredith Gourdine (an AA male) with a woman (Hey, I did that myself this week based on internet results). She also messed up the timeline, because Meredith Charles “Flash” Gourdine had dates of 1929 to 1998, that is, about 50 years after Nikolaus Otto invented the internal combustion engine, and (of course) began the deadly course of Global Warming …… (Gourdine was an interesting guy, also got a silver at Helsinki in 1952.)

    Like a four hour baseball game, I think this 25 minute lecture is about 20 minutes too long.

  107. • Replies: @SPMoore8
    But the judge won't release the Bundys because they are going to be tried in Nevada next year, and the lawyer who protested was tazed and arrested.
  108. @abner
    These are CIs (confidential informants), not literal undercover FBI agents. However, going by some of the Mother Jones and Independent stories about shady FBI stings on Muslim screwups, it's possible for them to be pretty extravagantly compensated (as in getting a year's middle class salary). DC spending inflation goes a long way.

    I expect to see many more white knucklehead terror setups unless Trump both wins and somehow summons his inner Putin to ruthlessly clean house.

    They don’t need to be accountable.
    nobody controls the government, and anybody who tries to control the government is vilified by the “other.” we have no majority anymore. We are arbitrary lines on a map occupied by various warring tribes.

  109. @countenance
    Breaking hot, dot dot dot.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/jury-acquits-leaders-of-oregon-standoff-of-federal-charges/ar-AAjuxZf

    But the judge won’t release the Bundys because they are going to be tried in Nevada next year, and the lawyer who protested was tazed and arrested.

  110. @MarcB
    This validates the pervasive Patriot Movement COINTEL paranoia that paralyzed the movement from the mid-1990's onward.

    Andreas Strassmeir was probably like this Swiss guy…..

    He had traveled to Israel in the early 90s for ambiguous reasons even though he was a German….

    Few yrs later he started randomly turning up at strange off the wall militia camps tryinb to provoke them to set off explosivea and shit like that.

    A German Mossad agent or perhaps just a rogue gun for hire? Either way his cover was almost too perfect. After all who’s more authentic as a Nazi than a German?

    The fact his dad was a top official to then German Chancellor Helmut Kohl doesn’t add any less suspicion to him or the fact he was probably on loan to the DOJ thru some NATO or Interpol arrangement

  111. @Eustace Tilley (not)
    Steve: Hope you won't find this pedantic, but the plural of agent provocateur is agents provocateurs. If the noun (agents) is plural, then its accompanying adjective (provocateurs) has to be plural.

    Of course, you already knew that.

    Steve: Hope you won’t find this pedantic, but the plural of agent provocateur is agents provocateurs. If the noun (agents) is plural, then its accompanying adjective (provocateurs) has to be plural.

    Of course, you already knew that.

    Of course, then, plural of court martial is courts martials you f**king dumbf*ck?

    Plurals of expressions with postpositives…

    Get a life…

    Steve, appreciating your tia.

  112. @Triumph104
    OT: The Secret Service is having trouble hiring candidates. Some of the current agents are working hundreds of hours for free once they have maxed out allowable overtime. The agency received 27,000 applications in fiscal year 2016 but only hired 300. People are being disqualified for non-prescription use of Adderall and illegal internet downloading.


    http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/10/26/secret-service-recruitment

    > People are being disqualified for non-prescription use of Adderall and illegal internet downloading

    when your officers are gonna get up-close-&-personal with SUCCESSFUL methods of pulling off counterfeiting and credit card fraud, you require the straightest of arrows in your quiver…..

  113. i’m so old, I can remember when a country was manufactured by setting up a line of new border kibbutz’im. And by putting the children in separate houses from the parents, so that the kids would grow up ONLY knowing Hebrew

    That is how you build an ethnic-nationalist country. ANd such a method isn’t subject to infiltration, folks.

    Show me the agricultural-communal settlement with a Latin-speaking kindergarden, THEN i’ll believe that “white nationalism” isn’t just something to scare up donations to the SPLC.

  114. @Hippopotamusdrome


    How do you tell government informants from agents provocateur?

     

    Be a member of an inbred ethnic group where you know everyone's pedigree back to 1600 and traitors will have their entire family ostracised from your ethnic community?

    More far side

    Don’t underestimate them.

    They trace their pedigree back to, at the least, the mid-14th century.
    I have seen it boasted about.

    • Replies: @Opinionator
    What group is this?
  115. @Anonymous
    Don't underestimate them.

    They trace their pedigree back to, at the least, the mid-14th century.
    I have seen it boasted about.

    What group is this?

  116. https://www.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=b2fk3sk13pg

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/podcast/253-secret-police-murder-and-cover-up/

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/03/william-norman-grigg/deep-state-takes-care/

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/27/oklahoma-city-bombing-brother-court-jesse-trentadue-kenneth

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2709637/FBI-insists-NO-unseen-Oklahoma-bombing-surveillance-tape-shows-accomplice.html

    Check out jesse trentadue, a lawyer who has done more than anyone to expose the feds doing exactly this type of nonsense. The original name for these operations was “PATCON,” and it involved being agent provocateurs in places like ruby ridge and okc. The video presentation is pretty shocking, and has clips from media coverage and us senators. Trentadue continues to take the feds to court over his brother’s death, and continues to catch them in lies and defeat them over and over. One example is the fbi claiming to a federal judge that they could not find the surveillance tapes of the okc bombing – which the secret service had originally described in a transcript two suspects getting out of the ryder truck in downtown okc, not the one, mcveigh, they later claimed.

    The whole topic of okc and jesse trentadue exposing the secret security state ought to be a ron unz column or investigation. It really is fascinating.

  117. @utu
    Who within BLM came up with the idea to make solidarity with Palestinians part of their official policy?

    Beats the ···· outta me. I didn’t even know they had an “official policy”. I see them more as a free-floating riot.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Or maybe "rioters at large" is a better descriptor.
  118. @Forbes
    OK, call me naïve, but WTF is illegal internet downloading? A record of hacking computers? Napster? Are there searchable records of my computer from three laptops ago?

    I dunno, maybe one of those sites your browser tells you not to go to?

    It sounds to me like an in between question, i.e., not the innocuous control questions (“What’s your name?”), nor the the killshot questions (“Are you a terrorist?”). My understanding is that the polygrapher asks about something sub-feloniously naughty most people have done, but aren’t proud about in order to get a midline result. Only in this case they seem to be using it as a disqualifier.

    Well, of course they’re gonna be short of candidates if visiting the wrong website or opening the wrong pill bottle is a disqualifier.

  119. @Almost Missouri
    Beats the ···· outta me. I didn't even know they had an "official policy". I see them more as a free-floating riot.

    Or maybe “rioters at large” is a better descriptor.

  120. @Marcus
    Just find an informant then

    Okay, but the finding of the informant is surely easier when he resembles you, and the informing part of the informant is doubtless likewise more productive when the informant has a shared background with the handler.

    So it’s really still the same problem in a slightly different format.

  121. @NOTA
    I'm sure there are infiltrators in BLM, and were in Occupy as well. It's a natural tactic for keeping an eye on protesting/dissenting groups, either to make sure they're not doing anything illegal, or to attack them in various ways.

    lol “infiltrators” in BLM

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