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iSteve commenter Song for the Deaf

This seems appropriate:

‘If the power and the self-confidence of a community keeps growing, the criminal law grows constantly milder. Every weakening and profound jeopardizing of the community brings the harsher forms of criminal law to light once more. The “creditor” always became proportionally more human as he became richer. Finally the amount of his wealth itself establishes how much damage he can sustain without suffering from it. It would not be impossible to imagine a society with a consciousness of its own power which allowed itself the most privileged luxury which it can have—letting its criminals go free without punishment. “Why should I really bother about my parasites,” it would then say. “May they live and prosper—for that I am still sufficiently strong!” . . . Justice, which started by stating “Everything is capable of being paid for, everything must be paid off” ends at that point, by covering its eyes and letting the person incapable of payment go free—it ends, as every good thing on earth ends, by destroying itself. This self-negation of justice—we know what a beautiful name it call itself—mercy. It goes without saying that mercy remains the privilege of the most powerful man, or even better, his movement beyond the law.’

Genealogy of Morals by Friedrich Nietzsche

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  1. Anonymous[408] • Disclaimer says:

    O T.

    Read reports today of the nation of Romania ‘planning to import 500,000 Pakistani workers by 2020’.

    My first reaction was that this is so utterly utterly ridiculous and absurd that it simply must be yet another item of the ‘fake news’ we hear so much about these days – or a belated April Fool’s joke.

    If true, all I can say is this: How well did it work out for Romania the last time they imported vast numbers of Sindhi people? Surely if anyone knows and understands the character of lower caste subcons, it must be the Romanians.

  2. And what exactly is the argument against experimenting with copying european countries that have more humane prisons and shorter sentences as well as lower recidivism and crime rates? The argument seems mostly to be obsessing over individual cases where someone is let off early and commits a crime, which is obviously completley irrational.

  3. anon[393] • Disclaimer says:

    yes a good one Gnon will have his pound

  4. Logan says:

    I think Nietzsche can’t see the forest here for all the trees.

    It’s not “the society” that is foregoing punishment of the guilty out of a misplaced sense of “we can afford it.”

    It’s an elite group that dominates that society. This group obtains all the psychic benefits of the virtue signaling of their “mercy,” while forcing other non-elite members of society to pay its price.

    Mercy to the guilty is injustice to the innocent.

  5. bomag says:

    Why should I really bother about my parasites…

    Can be said if you live in a relatively parasite-free community.

    Personnel is policy; demography is destiny.

    Reminds me again of the remark that, “I wouldn’t want to live in a community where the police are the only thing maintaining order.”

  6. It goes without saying that mercy remains the privilege of the most powerful man, or even better, his movement beyond the law.’

    That’s the reason, the social or welfare state is anti-Nietzschean (and Social Democrats tend to be anti-Nietzschean in general- cf. Jürgen Habermas’ seminal (!) book: The Philosophical Discourse of Modernity).

    And what Nietzsche writes is until this day the reason, why the upper-class and the radical left share some common ground: Lots of both groups abhor the social state – they just do it for different reasons: The rich, because they can quite easily live without it – and the revolutionaries, because they fear, that the masses lose their rage and revolutionary energies in a welfare state.

    • Agree: Endgame Napoleon
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    , @Anonymous
  7. Hubbub says:

    Let every man be free, if he poses no threat to me and mine? To hell with everyone else?

  8. notanon says:

    also rampant crime is a much cheaper form of prole control than a police force – as long as the elites have their own private security.

    • Replies: @Gordo
  9. I see someone’s Ph.D.-thesis taking shape: “Nietzsche’s influence on the detective novel”.
    Didn’t Ross Macdonald write that people yearn for mercy, but “what keeps happening to them is justice”?

  10. @Dieter Kief

    Habermas’ Philosophical Discourse of Modernity with his witty and deep understanding of Nietzsche (and Kant, Hegel, Derrida, Rorty, Dummett, Freud, Frege, Bloch, Marx, Dewey, Heidegger, Wittgenstein, Searle, Foucault…) is the kind of philosophical work, Slavoj Zizek has not yet come up with (in that he is not alone – not at all (of course).

    On the other hand, Zizek has been married more often than Habermas (boring number of 1 husband sum total – Ute), so Zizek’s admiration for the Nietzsche of the vital Nordic Übermensch might appear as being somewhat natural. Two of his wives were much younger, too – and one of them was even model at times, which secures Zizek a big Nietzschen bonus point.

    But then, a severe Nietzschean disturbance: Habermas beats Zizek with regard to the offspring with an impressive lead of 100% (2:1).

    So all in all: – Clear advantage for Habermas (and Jordan B. Peterson, btw. – the same number of husbands as Habermas, the same number of kids, too, but a lesser number of books than both, Habermas and Zizek, which books are being sold in much higher numbers than the books of Habermas and Zizek combined, even – big point for Peterson!)

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    , @Anonymous
  11. @Dieter Kief

    Funny slip of mine – husbands = wives…There are mistakes in a hurry (Mongolian saying).

  12. Cortes says:

    OT: A recent article dealt with the apparent decline in kidnapping in the USA. Yesterday I finished reading “The Cold Summer”, a terrific (as usual) novel by the former anti Mafia prosecutor Gianrico Carofiglio which focuses on the phenomenon known in Italy as “lightning kidnapping”. Over and done in half a day and targeted at individuals who are tax evaders. No further details to avoid spoiling the novel for future readers. The technique is so good I cannot imagine that it’s only used in Italy…

  13. And when the brunt of the damage falls on people taking up valuable real estate… hey, win-win!

    • Agree: Rosie
  14. OT: “Extraordinary results” watch at “LeBron’s” school –

    (Though note, the “goals” they exceeded were for improvement v. scores themselves). I’d say there’s about a 25% chance of actual score fudging, and about a 75% chance that this proves if you spend $600k extra the worst kids can jump slightly above the kids who were previously above them who didn’t get the $600k.

  15. He wrote that before he became jaded. When he was young he was a dapper dresser and preened about in Mrs. Wagner’s salon and he almost fit in. There is an apocryphal story about her walking in on him while he was poking around in her underwear drawer.

    There is no way he didn’t get more realistic as he got older but his writing went way downhill so we are missing Marxian screeds which is really too bad because he once had quite the literary style and could have done great stuff on the topic if he had a time travel machine.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
  16. Walls that keep people in vs walls that keep people out: It’s a critical choice civilization must make in favor of the latter.

    Capitalism is in a political deadlock with liberal democracy’s tyranny of the majority limited only by vague laundry list of selectively enforced “human rights”.

    Breaking this deadlock requires empirically grounding the social sciences by sorting proponents of social theories into governments that test them: Sortocracy.

    This means that the current model of “human rights” must be replaced with a single, well defined, right to vote with your feet. This right to vote with your feet necessarily implies three material rights:

    1. The material right to land.
    2. The material right to transportation.
    3. The material right to border enforcement.

    #1 is obvious since you can’t put your social theory into practice without land. #2 is also obvious as people who cannot practically relocate cannot vote with their feet.

    #3 _should_ be obvious but, due to the moral zeitgeist, it is not. Incarceration rates, particularly in the US, show us that there are two, fundamentally opposed, kinds of borders: Those that keep people out and those that keep people in. Of the two, the kind that keeps people in is least compatible with the right to vote with your feet. Even the US’s 13th Amendment to the Constitution has provision for involuntary servitude: Slavery for those imprisoned. We see a prison-industrial complex arising at the interface of government and capitalism to exploit this loophole in the 13th Amendment. The moral zeitgeist’s mandate is “let people in”. What is not admitted is this necessarily entails walls that keep people from leaving who are found to be “criminal” by the admitting society.

    The moral zeitgeist has to reconcile its moral outrage at imprisonment with its moral outrage at border controls. The only realistic answer to this is absolute enforcement of free emigration combined with absolute tolerance of restrictive immigration.

  17. “…letting the person incapable of payment go free.” Criminals’ payment to society is paid in time away from society. I am not against crediting a criminal’s account for good behavior. Lesser crimes paid in community service and restrictive time among the law abiding. Why is this so hard to understand?

  18. CK says:

    Nietzsche was a noticer.
    Eventually the parasites lose by winning; but that loss is a long ways down the timeline.

  19. Nietzsche was a Polack.

    Nietzsche said nasty things about women and their reaction to science.

    Nietzsche’s mustache was overly elaborate.

    Nietzsche would have been crushed on a football field by Nitschke.

    Nietzsche was not a meliorist, neither was Thomas Hardy.

    Nietzsche was born in 1844 and Hardy was born in 1840.

    Thomas Hardy had an overly elaborate mustache like Nietzsche.

    Tough to eat eat soup with kind of overly elaborate mustache.

    Attention Steve Sailer:

    Please moderate my comments on through, especially the one about Michelle Obama having a black cat bone spirituality and her reaction to Barack Obama flirting with Danish butter cookie Joan Jacob Jingle Heimer Helle Thorning Schmidt.

    Thank You,


  20. Anon[508] • Disclaimer says:

    This is the liberal ethos in a nutshell. Bartell Drugs recently announced they are shutting down their last store in Seattle, they’ve been there since the 1800’s, because they can no longer afford all the shoplifting by the homeless drug addicts. Seattle has decided not to prosecute any property damage or theft less than $1,000.

    Our society is unraveling, led by the morally bankrupt left, in the name of “compassion”.

  21. Anti-colonialism wrought small. White man’s burden was harshing their mellow.

  22. BenKenobi says:

    “I tell ya, the bullshit piles so high in America you need wings to stay above it. Here, charging a man with racism was like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500.”
    – Capt Willard, Aclownalypse Now

  23. El Dato says:
    @El Dato

    It’s a thing, even on Boomers.

    Navy: USS Wyoming shower videos hard to prevent

    Admiral Rickover is manning the pumps in his grave.

  24. Nietzsche was a product of Old Europe, as Dick Cheney once called it, and by the time he came along, Europe was already losing strength. Most people focus on his comments about a dying religion and the necessity of replacing it with a mythology of equal cultural force, a religion of individualism of sorts.

    This sounds like Nietzsche, trying to be an economist instead of a philologist, linking Europe’s weakness to a culture of financialized criminality, like the contemporary one so lucidly described by the brilliant Nomi Prins and Charles Hugh Smith. There are definitely some above-the-law human gods and goddesses in that Wall Street world, where “everything is permitted.”

    But what some economists are suggesting as a remedy to the pending collapse of a weakening global economy is a jubilee for the current crop of debtors, including some of the serfs, like the student loan people in the midst of their womb-productive years, extending the everything-is-permitted god / goddess stature to the chosen serfs.

    I came out of college with no debt, but with a bachelor’s degree that has not helped me to secure a decent job. I have no dog in this fight other than years of my youth, struggling to pay back a business loan and doing it by sacrificing luxuries and some necessities, like a car for both household members in some years and living in some crappy, miserable apartment complexes. Paying off that loan had no benefits for me, economically speaking, but it was what was expected of a non-goddess.

    Earlier borrowers in the bottom 80% had to pay it all back, whether it was a student loan or a business loan. Like indentured servants, this group of serfs had to pay it back at the expense of things like retirement savings in an economy that was no better a few years back than now, regardless of what the lying Establishment claims. This group includes the 52% of Americans over 55 with no retirement savings.

    The contemporary US economy is a product of free-market capitalism, a system full of opportunity, and every individual who fails to reach the protected ranks of the top 20% of dual-earner parents in above-firing, absenteeism-friendly, family-friendly jobs is a loser. The bottom 80%ers are losers, even when putting in a lot of effort, selling enough in small businesses that are going up against the big-box behemoths to pay back banks without having much left over for themselves.

    This is a flexible economy, where everything is possible and merit-based.

    Old Europe, by contrast, had a super-stratified economy of serfs, lords, civil servants (who tended to the aristocracy’s money) and scattered merchants, the most prosperous of whom had locked-in government contracts with the aristocracy. Some economists speak of “rentier skims.” Few describe the economy of Old Europe as a meadow of opportunity for a free people—an untapped meadow, awaiting the initiative of lazy serfs too “unskilled” to gather up the abundance of fruit open to them for the picking. Most describe it as a closed system, where a small group at the top had all the wealth, with the rest servicing the wealthy or protecting the wealth of the few.

    The New World’s economy was supposed to be based on swashbuckling freedom of enterprise for European whites—whites freed from the stifling economic hierarchy of Old Europe.

    It is interesting that Americans have forgotten about indentured servitude, a part of our history that is not as cinematic as chattel slavery. Some of the original settlers, fleeing England’s hierarchical arrangement by which wealth was inherited by first sons, came to the USA with more financial cushion or not, depending on their degree of prodigalness.

    Many of them came as indentured servants. They had to pay off the debts they had acquired before enjoying the boundless freedom in the nascent USA. For most, that economic freedom involved going from low-wage churn job to low-wage churn job. Freed from the shackles of Old Europe’s aristobureaucratic economy, they got to experience the 17th / 18th century version of the American churn-gig job market, which was probably no less brutal (and scam-laden) than today’s job market for the bottom 80%.

    • Agree: Desiderius
  25. I think Søren Kierkegaard captured the spirit of this “debate” with this, from Either/Or, Part One:

    “A fire broke out backstage in a theatre. The clown came out to warn the public; they thought it was a joke and applauded. He repeated it; the acclaim was even greater. I think that’s just how the world will come to an end: to general applause from wits who believe it’s a joke.”

    Though we could take the view of Camus that justice must prevail over mercy if the soul of the nation is to be preserved, and that certain crimes cannot be forgiven.

  26. J1234 says:

    Liberals and leftists can’t have it both ways. You can’t do away with prisons and do away with gun rights at the same time. The public won’t stand for it. In that sense, that black lady anti-prison activist would become (like Obama during his administration) the “NRA Salesperson of the Decade.”

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @notanon
  27. Yesterday was murder. Hope I can get some sleep b/c I’ve got to get up real early tomorrow.

  28. anon[248] • Disclaimer says:

    Worth noting that as the Roman empire declined criminal punishments became harsher, and smaller offenses received capital punishment. This is a natural reaction to decline just as leniency is a natural outcome of confidence in one’s power.

    Building a company – hard on the staff
    Company at its peak – generous to the staff
    Company in decline – hard on the staff

  29. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dieter Kief

    I’ve always wondered what the deal is with Habermas’s nose/face. He looks like a Proboscis monkey. Was he in an accident or something?

    • Replies: @fnn
    , @Dieter Kief
  30. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dieter Kief

    To illustrate your point about Zizek’s great vitality, here he is wolfing down 2 hot dogs on the street in NYC:

  31. @Anon

    No it’s not the left, it’s Ballmer, Gates and the usual oligarchs making asses of themselves.

  32. Mr. Anon says:
    @El Dato

    OT: In the current year

    Navy investigating after camera found in women’s bathroom on the USS Arlington

    Imagine that! Men who are charged with the task of vaporizing millions of people don’t see any harm in occasionally being peeping-toms.

    • Replies: @L Woods
  33. @J1234

    Oh, they very much can and plan to. Do you have a plan when they do?

    • Replies: @J1234
  34. David says:

    Shakespeare wrote, “I show pity most when I show justice for then I pity those I do not know.”

    • Replies: @notanon
  35. Has anyone noticed that the current prison abolition trend is coming on the heels of the #metoo movement? This doesn’t seem a coincidence to me.

    It seems like Those In Charge want a society where average man’s life can be ruined by word-of-mouth but the actual criminals get to roam free. In other words, the upending of the U.S. judicial system as we know it.

    What’s causing this? Too many single, childless women with time on their hands and grudges against the successful white men who didn’t wife them up? Or people with Third World roots who seem to resent the concept of American laws?

    • Replies: @notanon
    , @Redneck farmer
  36. Mr. Anon says:

    No it’s not the left, it’s Ballmer, Gates and the usual oligarchs making asses of themselves.

    No, just making serfs out of everyone else.

    What exactly their motivation is though, I don’t get. Before Gates became a billionaire, living in Gates-Land, he was a person who lived in Seattle. Seattle is his home town. Most Seattlites like thier city. Why would he want to turn it into an open-air latrine?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @TWS
  37. AaronB says:

    There’s a lot of this stuff in Nietzsche. That the stronger you are the more you can tolerate damage, etc.

    And there is a lot of truth in that. But the problem is that humans are not Gods, and no one can really be that strong. No society can really let its parasites go free, and no man is really so strong he can just not defend himself from his enemies.

    The problem with reading Nietzsche too much is you may end up adopting weak and self destructive positions out of a desire to be a Nietzschean superman who is “above” such petty needs as self-defense etc. But we are not supermen. No one is. It was just a product of Nietzsche’s vivid imagination, and to mistake that for practical real life is pure folly.

    Its good to be reminded that forbearance can be a part of strength, and indeed a privilege of only the strong, and that responding to every slight and insult and threat is the province of the weak man.

    Nietzsche often has valuable psychological insights, but he exaggerates them beyond all measure – probably because in his minds eye he was always dreaming of his mythical superman and not actual human beings, who have to try and survive in the real world.

    • Replies: @Song For the Deaf
  38. As to Nietzsche’s remark, it is an inference and a brilliant jeu d’esprit but not to be understood as applying to the practical management of any possible polity in real life. On the other hand, the rest of us live side-by-side or, rarely, amongst ~40 million black Americans, born to American parents and the heirs of the historical reality of slavehood in anti-bellum America. They are not like the Rohingya who were sent packing by the Burmese people. They are true Americans and are here to stay. Aside their talented tenth as W.E.B. Dubois termed them, this is a vast underclass brought up in poverty in fatherless households lacking the essential role-model of an adult male without which even the most balanced personality has difficulty overcoming. Such a social arrangement is a recipe for disaster. Nor is it feasible that outside intervention could change that reality. So what is to be done? One does not have to coempt the talented tenth as they are already coempted. Nation-wide I don’t see any options than those already employed: individual benevolence towards individual fellow black Americans, indifference towards the rable-rousers and grievance-mongers among them, a robust carceral system, etc. When that pot boils over, as it does periodically, promote a black civil servant or military officer. There is no solution; there is only management. As the Israelis say about the periodic outbreaks and suppressions of Arab violence, it’s like mowing the grass.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  39. Peterike says:

    “No it’s not the left, it’s Ballmer, Gates and the usual oligarchs making asses of themselves.”

    How is that not the Left? Who do you think works at their foundations that actually cause all the trouble?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  40. fnn says:

    It may be related to the fact that we was born with a cleft palate. Despite his disabilities, he was allowed to enter the Hitler Youth at age 10. He probably got an exemption form boxing class.

  41. @Anonymous

    He barely made it through the Third Reich, because then, kids with a hare lip were looked upon as being too far away from the (Nietzschean) superman of the true Nordic Ayran Race and therefore a threat to the “Volkskörper” (people’s body), which should rather have been eradicated… – absolutely logical, from a radiating Nietzschean or triumphant Nazi standpoint, but – you know… I still can feel the shiver, as I write this stuff down – He hardly spoke about this stuff – but he did so explicitly in his acceptance speech for the Japanese Kyoto price in 2004.

    Btw. – Habermas is losing track slowly but steadily, as it seems. Ute is looking after him, and a few friends. Rumor has it that he’d be still working every day on a philosophy of religion. The last time, I heard somebody talk about it who knew the circumstances from up close, he was deeply in this book, p. 1201 ++.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    , @Anonymous
  42. @Logan

    Good job there pointing out the hypocrisy at the heart of what passes for “social justice”.

    Mercy to the guilty is injustice to the innocent.

    Bonis nocet quisquis pepercit malis.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @Desiderius
  43. @Dieter Kief

    Habermas’ hare-lip was a big obstacle for Theodor W. Adorno, who wrote about it in a letter to Horkheimer and said, that somebody like this would not be appropriate as a representative of the (world-famous…) Frankfurt Institute for Social Science!

    Habermas felt these tensions and left Frankfurt to work with bourgeois Marxist Wolfgang Abendroth in Marburg, where he wrote The Structural Transformation of the Public Sphere. It was Hans-Georg Gadamer then , who gave Habermas his first decent job, in Heidelberg. – That was of some importance for me personally, because I grew up near Heidelberg, and one of my really good teachers, Hubert Wirth, studied around this time there, and taught me a few years later about Habermas’ philosophy when I was still a boy in green Lederhosen… I soon started reading Philosophy – then in sand-coloured or green Levi’s corduroys or in sky-blue Wrangler chinos from Teichmann’s at Hockenheim.

  44. notanon says:

    the critical thing about the central banking mafia is they are legalized counterfeiters – which over time gives them infinite bribe money.

  45. TWS says:
    @Guy De Champlagne

    Work in the system in any capacity. Then come back and spout your ridiculous platitudes.

    The ones that are in need to stay in, most of those who get out need to be in there.

  46. notanon says:
    @Guy De Champlagne


    racial/ethnic groups have different crime rates

  47. @International Jew

    The quality of mercy is not strained.
    It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
    Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:
    It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.
    ‘Tis mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes
    The thronèd monarch better than his crown.
    His scepter shows the force of temporal power,
    The attribute to awe and majesty
    Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
    But mercy is above this sceptered sway.
    It is enthronèd in the hearts of kings;
    It is an attribute to God Himself;
    And earthly power doth then show likest God’s
    When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, Jew,
    Though justice be thy plea, consider this:
    That in the course of justice none of us
    Should see salvation. We do pray for mercy,
    And that same prayer doth teach us all to render
    The deeds of mercy. I have spoke thus much
    To mitigate the justice of thy plea,
    Which, if thou follow, this strict court of Venice
    Must needs give sentence ‘gainst the merchant

    — Portia, in William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice, Act 4, Scene 1

  48. @International Jew

    See also the parable of the prodigal son. Which is all to say that this current unleashing of the kraken by our insane snob posse ruling class is the furthest thing from true mercy.

    It is nothing but vanity and wrath.

  49. notanon says:

    You can’t do away with prisons and do away with gun rights at the same time.

    that’s precisely the plan and don’t forget force integrating your neighborhood beforehand with section 8 and refugee resettlement so you’re a minority as well.

    • Agree: Gordo
    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
  50. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @Guy De Champlagne

    The argument is that Unz readers want more black people in prison. Also all Mexicans deported, women in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant etc etc. Of course they are not nearly so enthusiastic about harsh “law and order” policies when it comes to e.g. older white men being held accountable for sexually harassing their female employees. But, as Emerson said, a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  51. Anonymous[400] • Disclaimer says:

    Western corporations* stationed in Romania are planing…

    USA apparently is willing to try using this Homo Judaicus law to force Romania to do it.

    But i don’t think that’s going to happen. Even if it does, these Pakis will sprawl to other EU countries after getting EU papers, which could be gameplan of elites in Germanic countries, using Eastern Europe to filter more obedient brownies. Still i don’t think Romanians are going to do it.

    • Replies: @Romanian
  52. @Anonymous

    The services of a necromancer will be required to bring Vlad Dracula back to protect Romania. The market for impalement spears will explode, so attention any budding entrepreneurs.

  53. IC8 says:
    @Guy De Champlagne

    Is this a joke? America has higher recidivism and crime rates because of blacks. Why are you even here if you don’t realize this?

    You want to release scumbag criminals into the streets because “muh feels” and then you accuse others of being “irrational”. The idea that more lenient punishment would lead to less crime makes no logical sense at all. The harsher the punishment, the stronger the deterrent effect should be. If criminals are so retarded that longer prison sentences make them more likely to commit crime and go to prison again, why should I have any sympathy for them?

  54. anon[148] • Disclaimer says:

    They actually announced they are not opening any new stores in downtown Seattle due to the shoplifting and violence. They are not “shutting down their last store in Seattle”. Bartell’s has dozens of stores in Seattle. Your point is still correct – just better to get the facts right.

  55. @Logan

    There should always be room in any sane society for mercy, but you make a good point. Elite progressive whites, truly the most destructive segment of the American populace, can afford to be merciful in their secure enclaves.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  56. anon[148] • Disclaimer says:
    @Guy De Champlagne

    And what exactly is the argument against experimenting with copying european countries that have more humane prisons and shorter sentences as well as lower recidivism and crime rates?

    The argument against –
    1. What lower recidivism rates?
    2. If they have lower crime rates it is because of their racial demographics and accompanying culture. Short prison sentences aren’t the cause.
    3. USA racial demographics preclude our having crime rates as low as Europe.
    4. We tried short prison sentences in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s and got large spikes in crime rates and severity of violent crime.
    5. When we went back to long mandatory sentences crime rates dropped.
    6. Now that Europe has racial demographics more like the USA the Europeans may want to experiment with the American model of tough law enforcement that reduced our crime rates.

  57. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:

    Scandi prisoners are mostly foreigners/non-ethnic Scandis and their recidivism rates are still low. This myth of mass decarceration starting in the 1960s gets thrown around a lot here but I’ve seen very little in the way of hard numbers to back it up; if anything incarceration rates for black men in e.g. the Jim Crow South were probably a lot lower than current numbers since so many of the offenses that get people in the system today (drugs mainly) didn’t exist then.

  58. Anon[172] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s not true. The Romanian embassy released a statement saying that they were planning in 20,000 worker visas in 2019, of which 8,000 will be permanent and 12,000 will be seasonal. That number is higher than in 2017, but in line with numbers from previous years with strong economic growth numbers.

    The embassy also said there was no planned migration agreement with Pakistan.

    The major foreign worker nationalities in Romania are Moldovans, Chinese, Vietnamese, and Turks. There are roughly 1,500 South Asian workers in the country, mostly Nepalese and smaller numbers from Sri Lanka, India, and Bangladesh.

    The main nationalities granted citizenship are Ukranians and Moldovans. Only a few hundred non-European migrants get citizenship ever year, mostly from Turkey and a few from Iraq and Syria. The main reason is because permanent residency and citizenship require Romanian language fluency.

    Pakistan has never been a major source of migration to Romania.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  59. bucky says:

    Well, the central conceit of BLM is just this. That the police are victimizing blacks for no reason at all, and that ending quote-unquote mass incarceration will not have any downstream effects such as higher crime.

    The response to BLM is not “all lives matter.” It should be “crime rates matter.”

  60. Anonymous[310] • Disclaimer says:

    1. The EU throws Europe’s borders wide open.

    2. Romanian workers flee to better paying countries (e.g., Germany and England).

    3. Worker shortage results.

    4. Romania replaces fleeing Romanians with workers from even poorer countries (e.g., Pakistan). This ensures that wages will remain low and that housing (in safe neighborhoods) will become more expensive, guaranteeing that even more Romanians flee and that birthrates fall even further.

    Also a fact: Romania now has one of the lowest birthrates in the world, at only 1.33 children per woman.

    We have feminism, atheism, nihilism and open borders to thank for the fact that our countries are dying.

    • Replies: @Romanian
  61. Anonymous[310] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s not true. The Romanian embassy released a statement saying that they were planning in 20,000 worker visas in 2019, of which 8,000 will be permanent and 12,000 will be seasonal.

    A couple of articles actually do mention that anywhere from several hundred thousand up to a million could be admitted. Given the level of population decline in Romania, due to falling birthrates and emigration, it’s not at all unlikely that those numbers are correct.

    And once immigration rates are increased it becomes all but impossible to bring the numbers down.

    • Replies: @Romanian
    , @Anon
  62. Anonymous[310] • Disclaimer says:

    if anything incarceration rates for black men in e.g. the Jim Crow South were probably a lot lower than current numbers since so many of the offenses that get people in the system today (drugs mainly) didn’t exist then.

    Static analysis. One major thing has changed since the 60s: welfare spending has gone way up. The larger your welfare state the less able you are to tolerate large numbers of drug addicts. Back then addicts were pretty much on their own. It’s far easier for addicts to leach off the public today than it was then. And I won’t even get into how much harder it is to fire their asses, thanks to anti-discrimination laws.

    And our open border with Mexico, plus a far better transportation system, means that narcotics have penetrated every nook and cranny of the country in a way they hadn’t yet managed to do in the 60s.

    We have harsher drug laws today than then not because we want to have them, but because we need to have them. Doing away with them isn’t going to magically get us back to 1950s levels of crime.

  63. Romanian says: • Website

    If true, all I can say is this: How well did it work out for Romania the last time they imported vast numbers of Sindhi people? Surely if anyone knows and understands the character of lower caste subcons, it must be the Romanians.

    They just sort of showed up and our lords and churchmen liked the slave labor. Talk about lack of vision.

    As for the story, I’m still trying to make sense of who said what to whom, because the “news” was apparently broken by a Pakistani minister.

    In theory, it is impossible to have so many people. We have non-European migrant labor contracts, shamefully, but only 20k a year or so, though it keeps growing and sometimes the workers get abused (I would bet on all the time). This in a country which people leave because of low wages and with a single labor market of 500 million with high structural unemployment from which we could bring as much European labor as needed. But, of course, the companies want low wages, not just the actual labor 😛

    Ours is, I think, the only Constitution in Europe which forbids the colonization/settlement of foreign peoples onto our land. Every one has to be vetted as an individual to be allowed to stay, meaning they have to meet residency requirements, fluency, background checks etc and, while the standards may have slipped or are not designed to only retain geniuses, they are very stringent compared to other countries. So, 500k Pakistanis does not sound doable. Of course, if you want to play the legalism game, then you can just give them automatically renewable work visas.

    While we specifically export our unemployment (even when we don’t mean to, because going abroad also beats internal migration in benefit to effort ratio), there are still many people in rural areas, working small plots in subsistence agriculture. Rather than find ways to include them in the formal economy, which would entail increasing its attractiveness (since moving to a city without housing already secured is very expensive and makes you an isolated urban pauper, as opposed to the middling cash you make at home in a place where people know who you are) and maybe finding some incentives, they still want to bring foreigners whom it is easier to control and abuse.

    • Replies: @Anon
  64. Romanian says: • Website

    Also a fact: Romania now has one of the lowest birthrates in the world, at only 1.33 children per woman.

    Source, please? The World Bank has it at 1.58.

    The rest you have it correctly.

    Interestingly, there is apparently a self-selection effect or an opportunistic fertility effect (what Steve Sailer found for Mexico) in that Romanians abroad have a marginally higher fertility rate, at about 1.8.

    There was some fake news running about that more Romanians are born outside the country than inside, but that is still impossible… for now.

  65. notanon says:

    exactly – even when i was a leftist i was always hardcore on crime cos the people who suffer from it most are the poorest and/or weakest.

  66. notanon says:
    @Days of Broken Arrows

    What’s causing this?

    they’re pathologically contrary and crave whatever is the opposite of what normie conservatives want.

    their demands are getting increasingly insane simply because they already did the less insane stuff and this is what’s left.

    (and there is no limit to how insane this gets because it’s not rational. they’re mad.)

    • Agree: Desiderius, Colin Wright
  67. Romanian says: • Website

    The disbursement of Communist confiscated wealth is still continuing in Romania to this day, while other countries gave a deadline of 2 years after the fall of Communism to claim property up to a certain level of value. It is a huge transfer of public property (or, when impossible, as for land now hosting cemeteries or hospitals, of public funds and stock in the privately-managed State Property Fund). It has created a lot of chaos and corruption, as people try to fake ownership and legitimate heirs duke it out in courts for their share of the spoils. It is why a lot of land and old buildings cannot be bought or developed in desirable areas, because the property rights are unclear. So the Holocaust survivors are not really privileged, except if that bit about heirless property being transferred to benefit them all is actually applied (who would be the receiving entity? The state of Israel?). Heirs also include churches and civic organizations present during the nationalizations, which is how we had the extraordinary spectacle of the German ethnic community organization claiming succession rights from a Nazi-created ethnic German organization to get back some very valuable real estate in Sibiu, a former European Capital for Culture (a process in which the then-mayor of Sibiu signed the property over to the President of the organization, who was him as well… he is now President of the country). While quite ruinous, I find I agree with the full restitution policy, from a moral standpoint (never been a beneficiary). As long as it is for Communism restitutions – we have some Romanian and also former Austro-Hungarian aristocrats crawling out of the woodwork to claim property nationalized during agricultural reform in the 1920s, for which they were paid through an arbitration court in Paris.

    Apparently, we are only halfway done and the cost is, if I remember correctly but cannot find a source at this late hour, already in the tens of billions of euros (current year national GDP is 200 billion euros, about 8 times larger than in our deepest hole in 1992).

  68. Absolute empathy equals absolute altruism. Absolute altruism tolerates the destruction of morals, justice, and society, because it is the ultimate signal of exalted status. It’s like crack, once hooked it’s over.

  69. @anon

    In Norway, the incarceration rate is about 75/100,000 people, and the recidivism rate is the lowest in the world at around 20 percent. In the US, more than 700/100,000 people are incarcerated, and more than 70 percent of freed inmates are re-arrested within five years

    Those lower recidivism rates. I shouldn’t have mentioned that European countries have lower crime rates because that just allowed people to go on their preprogrammed Sailerite “cause blacks” argument. And I’m sure that the over all lower crime rates do contribute to the lower recidivism rates, so cause blacks does have some validity.

    But isn’t it common sense that making prisons as much like the outside world as possible will help lower recidivism rates by training people how to function once released rather than training them how to be a criminal and a prisoner and then throwing them into an alien environment?

    • Replies: @notanon
    , @ahenon
  70. Romanian says: • Website

    I guess we will see if we are “good Europeans”

  71. @Anonymous

    A bazillion things went on in the 1960s and they’re harping on the things they want to harp on out of all the possible causes to explain the rise in crime. Some of those putative causes I’m sure didn’t even happen at all.

    We should be experimenting with copying northern European systems.

  72. @Mr. Anon

    Covering their considerable asses. This was all PR for them from the get go. They just want it all to go away.

  73. @Peterike

    Rich chicks who can’t find a husband.

  74. @Days of Broken Arrows

    Sam Francis’ term “anarchotyranny” best describes the current zeitgeist.

  75. @Charles Pewitt

    Charles Pewitt: The Right’s answer to Richard Stallman.

  76. Anonymous[310]: “We have feminism, atheism, nihilism and open borders to thank for the fact that our countries are dying.”

    Low birth rates result from the use of scientific birth control methods such as the pill and abortion. Feminism is more an effect than cause of birth rate decline, as giving women choice over whether to have a child or not by having access to these methods is by nature empowering to them. Considering how much trouble children are, it shouldn’t be a surprise that when given such a choice, large numbers of women choose not to have them. This happens even in Asian countries not notable for being afflicted with feminism, such as China and Japan.

    Atheism? Hard to see how it’s causative of countries “dying”. Even in the most atheistic countries less than half of people claim to be atheists. Some of these have strong borders, but low birth rates (China, Japan, etc.).

    Open borders on the other hand are more or less synonymous with the death of discrete nations. But this effect would seem to be built into the project of building a global civilization. If you need the resources of the whole world, could it be that you necessarily end up simultaneously inviting it in and invading it? Alexander the Great did it, Rome did it, Britain did it, and now the West, under American hegemony, is doing it, so the technique itself isn’t anything new. What’s new is that both the ability and the need to redistribute populations has grown so much greater in modernity. Transportation is orders of magnitude more efficient now than only a century ago. The suicide of the West can happen quickly now, whereas before the technical means to bring it about so quickly were lacking.

  77. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    if anything incarceration rates for black men in e.g. the Jim Crow South were probably a lot lower than current numbers since so many of the offenses that get people in the system today (drugs mainly) didn’t exist then.

    Weed was commonplace amongst blacks and so was cocaine. Heroin became big after the war.
    But yes, numbers locked up were lower. Blacks got bothered little over what they did with or to other blacks. They cooperated with police like they do now, which is to say not.

    But when they were jailed it was a lot harsher.

  78. @SunBakedSuburb

    can afford to be merciful

    Social justice is utterly merciless.

  79. J1234 says:

    Oh, they very much can and plan to.

    Planning and doing are very different things, Desiderius. In the worst possible case scenario (for us) they will do away with gun rights, but that ‘s meaningless unless they can also do away with existing guns. The island of Crete in Greece (sometimes referred to as “the Texas of the Mediterranean” according to our Greek guide) has a civilian gun ownership rate that approaches the US, and it’s all illegal. Greek gun control laws keep guns out of the hands of most people, but the Greek gov’t. looks the other way with Crete because they don’t want an insurrection.

    Do American leftists have as much insight as the Greek gov’t? Probably not, but they’ll learn quickly if they simultaneously release all prisoners and attempt to confiscate.

  80. notanon says:
    @Guy De Champlagne

    you’re assuming crime is a problem that can be rehabilitated

    it’s not

    crime is almost all either
    – bad people
    – young men who are too wild during their peak testosterone years

    the first kind you can’t fix
    the second kind you just need to warehouse till they grow out of it.

    • Agree: Bubba
  81. Bubba says:

    Yes indeed. And the elites are not only morally bankrupt, but they have also managed to financially bankrupt America also in the name of “compassion.”

    According to the total debt per U.S. citizen is now $223,582.00

    No limits on spending taxpayer’s money, open borders and no prison terms for criminals.

    Yeah, I’d say we’re in a Prius on cruise control going 100 mph heading straight into a brick wall.

  82. MBlanc46 says:
    @Guy De Champlagne

    It’s entirely rational. It’s individual case after individual case after individual case after individual case.

  83. ahenon says:
    @Guy De Champlagne

    But isn’t it common sense that making prisons as much like the outside world as possible will help lower recidivism rates by training people how to function once released rather than training them how to be a criminal and a prisoner and then throwing them into an alien environment?

    I used to believe that but not anymore. My experience with people is that people don’t change. l’m finding the sciences are confirming what my common sense tells me – that people are hardwired with their personalities and set in their ways.
    I also have less sympathy than I used to and find it easier to just not worry about criminals. If keeping them in prison forever or deporting them to penal colonies reduces crime, that is just as good a solution to me as rehabilitation, even if it worked.
    If imprisoned or deported criminals aren’t harming any more people here because they can’t, I count that as a compassionate outcome.
    I also don’t trust “studies” showing wonder cures from rehabilitation. Those arguments come from liberals and they lost all credibility long ago.

    • Agree: GermanReader2
    • Replies: @Logan
  84. @Desiderius

    In Seattle, people are losing patience with city leadership over the homelessness crisis…

    People with homes are losing patience. People with homes are richer than people without homes. The homeless trump those rich bastards who have any equity in where they live.

    …but the frustration is running in both directions: the city’s political, cultural, and academic elites are conducting their own revolt—against the people.

    Against the people with homes. Houses. Or just apartments. Leftism is standing up for the poorest, with no exceptions. Whoever is poorer than you is better than you. (But not them.) Just like there are no exceptions to their lust for power. Even sexual freedom costs more than it gives, which is why it is so often favored by the left.

  85. @Guy De Champlagne

    ‘And what exactly is the argument against experimenting with copying european countries that have more humane prisons and shorter sentences as well as lower recidivism and crime rates? ‘

    This is something of a moot point. The rapidly rising black populations of these countries will make their lower crime rates, etc a thing of the past.

  86. Anon[350] • Disclaimer says:

    The number is BS. The plan is for 20K visas in the next year, with the bulk likely going to traditional migrant sources (Moldova, Vietnam, China, Turkey). The Romanian govt disputed the Paki’s statement.

    • Agree: Dieter Kief
    • Replies: @Romanian
  87. Gordo says:

    also rampant crime is a much cheaper form of prole control than a police force – as long as the elites have their own private security.


  88. Romanian says: • Website

    Well, of course it is. But I still call it a sort of weather balloon designed to gauge reactions.

  89. TWS says:
    @Mr. Anon

    He lives in the other side of the lake. As long as the lights stay on, his view doesn’t change.

  90. @Anon

    “Morally bankrupt Left,” “deracinated elite”… tomato, tomahto.

    One thing I’m noticing in the Geneology of Morals, especially in passages like the one I quoted, is he never talks about elite women’s role in these things, ie Kim Kardashian and Ivanka Trump suddenly becoming passionate defenders of reforming the criminal justice system to suit the needs of black male criminals.

    I don’t know if anyone’s ever surveyed the criminal justice reform movement but I’d be surprised if it wasn’t 2/3 female.

  91. @AaronB

    I wouldn’t say he exaggerates his psychological insights beyond all measure. Geneology of Morals is an anthropology book, basically, and since he’s talking about prehistoric man it entails a lot of speculation that seems spot-on (and some that doesn’t) but has no evidence to back it up.

    I first read him about 15 years ago, when I was a Christian. It’s amazing how much of an author you fail to grasp when you only read to refute. Now that I’m not trying to refute him to myself, I see a lot of problems in his arguments that I didn’t notice the first time around.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  92. @simple_pseudonymic_handle

    He wrote that before he became jaded.

    The Genealogy of Morals is one of Nietzsche’s last books and was published only two years before his collapse.

  93. @Guy De Champlagne

    “We should be experimenting with copying northern European systems.”

    This sounds like a great idea and if we were a nation of 20 million Scandinavians with Scandinavian behavioral norms, who were surrounded by affluent neighbors like the Scandinavian countries are, it’d totally work!

    Question: are there race-based prison gangs in Scandinavian prisons? Do you think our prison gangs would have any impact on your efforts to emulate their prisons?

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
  94. Ibound1 says:

    Dallas just announced a limit of $750. Below that, no crime. This is why a person with any sense will never, ever support public transportation. That merely brings them to you and your stores. It’s one of the nice things we can’t have.

  95. Anon[283] • Disclaimer says:

    Those articles are built on one article, which contradicts the migration figures released by the Romanian govt just a few days ago.

    Also, the 500,000 figure was from the Paki envoy, not Romania.

  96. Logan says:

    The problem with your theory is that history is absolutely loaded with people who changed, drastically. I’ve known several in my own life.

    I think a better way to put it is that we, as a society, have absolutely no idea how to reform an individual. When it happens, the individual, or possibly God, is responsible for the change.

  97. Logan says:

    Sorry, got the quotation somewhat wrong.

    Adam Smith: Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent.

  98. L Woods says:
    @Mr. Anon

    In the American goddess cult, this is indeed a far more serious offense than mass slaughter (of males).

  99. @Charles Pewitt

    Nietzsche would have been crushed on a football field by Nitschke.

    Gold box worthy!

  100. @Endgame Napoleon

    Freed from the shackles of Old Europe’s aristobureaucratic economy, they got to experience the 17th / 18th century version of the American churn-gig job market, which was probably no less brutal (and scam-laden) than today’s job market for the bottom 80%.

    That is not only not the experience of my family, it is not the experience of anyone that came over with them. Germans and Scots-Irish – they all succeeded in subsistence farming.

    Now the farming path is almost completely closed. And living in cities creates a critical mass of stupid people.

    We need more agriculture and less urbanization.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  101. @notanon

    Your remark about Section 8 and refugee resettlement has me wondering why prominent citizens of Sanctuary Cities (cough, Cher, cough) made such a fuss about President Trump wanting to set free Southern Border “asylum” seekers in, Sanctuary Cities.

    Yeah, yeah, I “get” resettlement for Flyover Country but not for elite me along with Not In My Back Yard.

    But that is the part I don’t get. By being so vociferous about “resettle ‘those people’ anywhere, but Not In My Back Yard” and “picking on us for the resettlement is unlawful, immoral, and unfair”, isn’t that giving away the game on Section 8? Why call attention to this when you can find some compliant Appelate Court judge who will overturn the president’s threatened actions, a judge essentially reading your mind and acting on it without having to protest?

    OK, there is a hypocricy angle to this and what is human nature without hypocricy, anyway? The angle I am after is that they could have just let Mr. Trump threaten and fume because a judge somewhere would block Mr. Trump. Just keep your head down because not keeping your head down will give the rubes the idea that they can fight against Section 8 and resettlement too?

    There is a Nietchean angle to this too. If the Deep State has the power, can they not just let Mr. Trump have his tantrums? If they would stop demonizing him, wouldn’t he just run out of steam and go away?

    • Replies: @notanon
  102. @Song For the Deaf

    From a Nietzchean perspective, things were working swimmingly in Norway that the thought was they could accept many outsiders into the system, no problem, only there is a problem, and it is only a matter of time before the Nietzchean crack-down? That Brevik guy thought he could immantize the crack-down?

  103. @Song For the Deaf

    Nietzsche was the Luther of his age. Being a Christian doesn’t require one to read to refute; indeed the hermeneutic of suspicion is one of the foremost tools of the enemy.

  104. Logan says:
    @Guy De Champlagne

    I suspect crime rates and recidivism are low in America among ethnic Swedes and Norwegians.

  105. Logan says:
    @Guy De Champlagne

    Recently read the book from which the movie Catch Me If You Can was made. The author spent time in US, French and Swedish prisons, possibly among others.

    The French prison system was utterly horrific (then, no idea what it’s like now), the Swedish prisons were by comparison a country club, and the US prisons in between.

    I do think it is incredibly short-sighted of us to spend so little effort on reintegrating released prisoners into society. We should do everything we can to make it easier for them to go straight than to go back to crime. In our own interest, not their’s. But we do the opposite.

    • Replies: @notanon
  106. notanon says:
    @Inquiring Mind

    isn’t that giving away the game on Section 8

    the people driving this are evil but most of their minions aren’t – they’re just conforming to the dominant morality and being driven mad by the cognitive dissonance from the dominant morality defining “virtue” as giving away their children’s homeland.

    If the Deep State has the power, can they not just let Mr. Trump have his tantrums? If they would stop demonizing him, wouldn’t he just run out of steam and go away?

    I think there’s two parts to that: the Deep State could do as you say over immigration and just wait him out but they want their wars and so needed to get Trump on the leash for that reason. I wouldn’t be surprised if they let him have some symbolic immigration control now they have foreign policy back under control.

    The Dems need to maintain the anti-white pressure to hold their coalition together.

  107. notanon says:

    a lot of crime is simply young men during their peak t years who grow out of it some time in their 20s when it starts to dip.

    so yes as long as people see it for what it is then trying to make sure dudes like that leave prison knowing how to read and write and maybe having a marketable skill would be worthwhile.

    but the idea of a “correctional facility” whether nice or nasty is fundamentally flawed imo.

  108. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    The argument is that Unz readers want more black people in prison.

    I don’t want the Carr brothers in prison. I want them under it.

    They have been correctly sentenced to death, but the Cuck Kingdom of Kansas won’t do the will of the people. Of course the voters are much to blame, never exercising their right and obligation to not retain judges and remove cuckservative and chamber of commerce GOP state legislators.

    Iowa is smart. Like ethanol in your gas? Even though it makes zero thermodynamic sense, gas in America has ethanol made from corn because Iowa holds its presidential primary first and no wannabe presidential candidate is going to tell the truth about fuel ethanol. Kansas is stupid, holding its primary after it’s all over but the shouting. So we get jack shit from Congress.

    When Wichita screamed bloody murder over pwoduct wiability killing Cessna, tort reform was dragged out and ridiculed. The unions (Beech and Cessna are union) agreed in principle with tort reform but were not going to expend any political capital over it because Kansas is a scab state. Is being a scab state causing factories to flock to Kansas? Hell no, there’s no business case to be out here, we might as well ditch right to work. But the cucks make sure Kansas has the least worker friendly labor laws in the US outside the Deep South.

    The one union that has power in Kansas is the NEA, enforcing teacher requirements keeping the people we need out and incompetents and turds in. The legislature has air in its balls when it comes to that because the NEA’ers vote and vote their own interests, unlike the parents of Kansas schoolchildren, who cuck at every opportunity.

    Pennsylvania is the Keystone State. We are the Cuckstone State.

  109. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson 3

    Tariff pesticides, GMO crops and any tractor bigger than a Ford 9N. I think the ag secretary under Jiminy Carter suggested that and they damn near lynched him, didn’t they?

  110. Anonymous[373] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    Nietzsche was a Polack.

    Is this true? He is considered to be a German.

  111. Anonymous[373] • Disclaimer says:

    and the heirs of the historical reality of slavehood in anti-bellum America.

    What kind of mystical Lysenkoism BS is this? Blacks haven’t inherited anything from slavery. Black families were stronger and blacks were less antisocial during during the slave era than they are now.

    Treatment of Blacks in the United States isn’t like the treatment of Gentiles in Palestine by Jews, who are trying to wipe out the Palestinians.

  112. Anonymous[373] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dieter Kief

    He barely made it through the Third Reich, because then, kids with a hare lip were looked upon as being too far away from the (Nietzschean) superman of the true Nordic Ayran Race and therefore a threat to the “Volkskörper” (people’s body), which should rather have been eradicated…

    Apocryphal. Allied propaganda.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  113. @Anonymous

    The cleansing of the “Volkskörper” did not begin with Jews, but with mental patients. They were killed in special cars via the exhaust fumes. It was al documented in every detail – by the Nazi doctors.

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