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One of the weird side-effects of my desultory attempts to spell out in intellectual terms the moderate, common sense concept of citizenism and its implications for immigration policy is that it seems to inspire more respectable (i.e., more extremist) intellectuals to spell out their reactive nuttiness in ever more explicit, self-parodic detail. For example, here is a pro-Open Borders reductio ad absurdum in the center-left New Republic that sounds like an iSteve parody.

From The New Republic:

INEQUALITY NOVEMBER 6, 2014
A Radical Solution to Global Income Inequality: Make the U.S. More Like Qatar
By Eric A. Posner and Glen Weyl

Last month, in a speech in Boston, Federal Reserve Chair Janet Yellen provoked some grumbling from conservatives when she said, “The extent and continuing increase in inequality in the United States greatly concern me…. I think it is appropriate to ask whether this trend is compatible with values rooted in our nation’s history, among them the high value Americans have traditionally placed on equality of opportunity.” But she is hardly alone in her concerns. Since at least Occupy Wall Street, income inequality has been one of the most intensely debated issues in American politics. Commentators fret that rising inequality hurts the poor, gives the rich the upper hand in politics, and will create a caste system in the United States. Proposed solutions range from the practical but weak, like raising the minimum wage, to the fanciful, like Thomas Piketty’s global wealth tax.

But the most powerful force to reduce inequality worldwide has gone largely unrecognized by the West, even though their value has been proven in the Gulf nations: open migration laws that are coupled, paradoxically, with caste systems.

The first thing to understand is that inequality is a much more severe problem across borders than within countries. In the United States, the median household makes around $50,000 per year and those in the top one percent make on average $300,000-$400,000. But even the poor in the United States are well-off compared to the poor in most other countries. The poorest five percent of Americans make about $3,000-$4,000 per year. This amount exceeds the per-person earnings of 60 percent of the global population. Around the world, more than a billion people live on a dollar a day.

So if you care about inequality, you should care about global inequality. Is there anything that can be done about it?

Well, there used to be starving children in China and now there aren’t. Why not? Because the Chinese did things about it.

Maybe other countries could takes steps to solve their own problems, too. For example, the people of Mexico could overthrow the parasitical chokehold of Carlos Slim on their economy so that he is no longer a contender for World’s Richest Man.

But Mexico successfully taking down Slim’s empire might give Americans the idea that maybe the vast riches that go to Silicon Valley billionaires from their monopolies, such as Facebook, aren’t a complete necessity. And The New Republic is owned by a Facebook zillionaire, Chris Hughes, so … let’s turn America into Qatar instead!

One view is that we in the rich countries should make donations to poor people in other countries. Researchers, including the two of us, have different views about whether such aid would be effective or desirable. Some argue that we’d lose much of the aid to waste and corruption. Yet even if foreign aid would be useful, it seems unlikely that rich countries will ever voluntarily contribute enough to dent global inequality.

So, involuntary …

The major approach of the West to international justice has been through its commitment to human rights. Western countries have ratified human rights treaties and created international institutions like the U.N. Human Rights Council with the purpose of creating a legal framework that compels the governments of all countries to respect the rights of their citizens. While the treaty regime does not explicitly address inequality, it does require countries to guarantee health care, fair wages, pensions, and education.

But this system, which has been in place for decades, has failed to stop widening inequality within countries, and has done little to improve the rights of people, as one of us argues in a new book. The largest contribution to human well-being in the last few decades has come not from the U.S. or Europe but from China, whose authoritarian government has engineered massive economic growth for its poor populace, and from authoritarian countries in the Persian Gulf.

Sheikh Hamad, Emir of Qatar and World’s Greatest Guy

The countries in the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC)—Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates (UAE)—are not known for their humanitarianism. They are authoritarian Islamic states that sit on huge pools of oil, and they’re also among the most unequal in the world. About 85 percent of the population of the UAE, for example, consists of migrant workers living on roughly $5,000 per year. Fifteen percent of the population are Emirati nationals, who live on roughly three hundred thousand dollars a year, implying greater economic inequality than existed even in Apartheid South Africa or the antebellum South.

But these foreign migrant workers earn vastly more in the GCC nations than they would at home in Bangladesh or India, where they would make around $1,000 per year. By welcoming migrant workers, the UAE and its neighbor Qatar do more than any other rich country to reduce global inequality. …

This is not to say that migrant workers in GCC have it easy—not by any stretch. Those in monarchical Qatar, for instance, do not enjoy even the limited rights of Qatari nationals. But reducing inequality will require uncomfortable tradeoffs. Qatar would not welcome so many migrant workers if it had to give them generous political and civil rights; in fact, Gulf states explicitly seek non-Arab, dark-skinned migrants so as to minimize the risk that nationals will sympathize, fraternize, or intermarry with migrants (who would then demand permanent residence, if not citizenship). Indeed, almost all of the massive historical migrations from poor to rich countries have occurred on such economically and politically unequal terms.

… If the OECD countries copied the migration policies of the GCC countries, they would reduce global inequality by much more than their welfare systems do within their borders. For example, if OECD countries welcomed migrants in proportion to their GDP at the same rate and from the same poor nations as Qatar does, this would reduce global inequality by about twice the amount that eliminating all internal inequality in the OECD countries would—and by twice the rate that taxes and transfers in these countries reduce global inequality. If they adopted the same per-citizen rate at which the UAE takes migrants, they could accomplish much more. By taking in the 60 percent of the global population who make less than the bottom five percent in the United States and paying them $5,000 per year, the U.S. and Europe would reduce global inequality by roughly a third.

We citizens of OECD countries take pride in our political and civil rights, and our generous welfare systems. Yet we maintain our high standard of living by giving no rights and trivial money to people who live outside our arbitrary borders.

But the many unappealing aspects of the [Gulf Arab] system—the migrants’ limited economic, political, and social rights, their segregation from the citizenry, and an authoritarian enforcement regime—seem necessary to maintain political support for the migration policies that help to reduce global inequality. (There are, of course, many other unsavory aspects to these regimes, like the oppression of women and LGBT people, that no nation should imitate. But those issues bear no relationship to the open immigration policies we’re proposing.)

Massive indentured servitude with no civil rights — Great Idea!

Full rights for the Trangendered to use the locker room of their choice — A nonnegotiable precondition

Intellectuals and leaders in OECD countries need to think carefully, and in a politically realistic way, about how to reconcile their commitments to rights and the agenda of reducing inequality. The GCC model of accepting migrants on economically and politically subordinate terms, though not humanitarian on its face, has proven so in practice. If this model were adopted in rich countries, then inequality—both political and economic—would dramatically increase within our own societies. This could undermine some of the liberal character we all prize, and it would certainly make all of us even more uncomfortable about inequality than we already are. But the benefits for the world’s poorest people would be vast.

Eric A. Posner is a professor at the University of Chicago Law School. His latest book is The Twilight of Human Rights Law. Glen Weyl is a Researcher at Microsoft Research New England and an assistant professor of economics and law at the University of Chicago.

Of course, as we all know, the wacko extremist on immigration policy is me.

In other news from Qatar, the Role Model for the World, The Guardian reports:

North Koreans working as ‘state-sponsored slaves’ in Qatar

Defectors claim Pyongyang regime pockets 90% or more of earnings made by migrants working on construction sites in Qatar, where preparations are under way for 2022 World Cup

Thousands of migrant labourers from North Korea are toiling for years on construction sites in Qatar for virtually no pay – including on the vast new metropolis that is the centrepiece of the World Cup – in what may amount to “state-sponsored slavery”.

According to testimonies from workers and defectors, labourers from the reclusive state said they receive almost no salaries in person while in the Gulf emirate during the three years they typically spend there.

They work in the expectation they will collect their earnings when they return to North Korea, but according to a series of testimonies from defectors and experts, workers receive as little as 10% of their salaries when they go home, and some may receive nothing.

I’ve remarked before upon how libertarians think Neal Stephenson’s dystopian satire Snow Crash is a utopian novel, but this is like reading Philip K. Dick stories for helpful hints about how to better your community.

 
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  1. At least Hughes’ “husband” got the cowboy sh$t knocked out of him by Col Chris Gibson back in my congressional district in New York

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    Chris Hughes's husband, Sean Eldridge, was a parody of the kind of candidate Democrats accuse Republicans of being.

    He was born into a rich family (both parents were doctors). He went to one of the lesser Ivy League schools. He majored in a soft subject (philosophy). Then he had the good fortune of marrying a man even richer than his parents. He was a carpetbagger with no meaningful real-world experience taking on a native of the district with 24 years in the US Army and three campaign medals on his chest. His aim, I guess, was to knock off a Republican incumbent. He hadn't the wisdom to wait for a Democratic year nor to find a district more suitable for carpetbaggers.

    One of the funnier parts of his website is where the 28-year-old gay may with no children calls himself an "advocate for families"...because he was on the board of Planned Parenthood, as if working for Planned Parenthood isn't the very exact opposite of advocating for families.
  2. The elite is dominated by a culture that’s quite divorced from physical production such as agriculture and manufacturing. Hence they naturally look to similar cultures which have primarily been trading cultures that depend on other labor, rather than farming and manufacturing directly.

  3. “By taking in the 60 percent of the global population who make less than the bottom five percent in the United States and paying them $5,000 per year, the U.S. and Europe would reduce global inequality by roughly a third.”

    I’m awful at math, but I think they’re talking about over 4 billion people here.

    I guess by their calculations it is silly for me to worry about 30 million new immigrants through chain migration. That’s just a drop in the bucket of what they have in store for me.

  4. Their proposed world makes Downton Abbey seem egalitarian.

  5. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Yet we maintain our high standard of living by giving no rights and trivial money to people who live outside our arbitrary borders.”

    I see. This has me thinking about just who “we” is and if the author of that sentence inspires within me a sense of “we-ness”. Can’t say he does. Sounds like he’d have trouble finding any reason to defend our “arbitrary” borders, much less defend me.

    Instead of moving the poorest people in the world here, a better solution would be to move rich people similar to the author outside our arbitrary borders. If they are so arbitrary, I’m sure he won’t mind. And, after all, he wants good done to the world. So he must move to the poorest place he can find in the world. What could be more obvious?

    • Replies: @IBC

    Instead of moving the poorest people in the world here, a better solution would be to move rich people similar to the author outside our arbitrary borders. If they are so arbitrary, I’m sure he won’t mind. And, after all, he wants good done to the world. So he must move to the poorest place he can find in the world. What could be more obvious?

     

    Or, just permanently quarantine the mega-wealthy in Dubai and add an asterisk next to the new, more equitable global inequality index. Since Dubai is already in many ways a world apart, the revised numbers would actually provide a more accurate reflection of the global reality. The assets of the mega-wealthy would be put in a "global equality trust" managed by a special UN committee appointed by the General Assembly and not subject to Security Council vetoes. Each mega-millionaire would be pensioned off with a five million dollar annnual allowance redeemable via orders from the Hammacher Schlemmer catalog and in tokens at Ferrari World Dubai. Yes, it would be a guilded cage, but if the system was properly designed, it would be a more humane solution for both the 1% and the remaining 99.
    , @Chuck
    "Instead of moving the poorest people in the world here..."

    I tried to explain the logic over at Open Borders, but they would have none of it. Elite infusion (i.e., neo-colonialism) makes a lot more sense as it's now well established that the smart fraction drives the economy. Generally, in the medium run, it would be more efficient and effective for Posner, Weyl and their colleagues to e.g., move to the Congo and improve the lot there then for a quarter of the Congo to be moved to the West. Of course, Posner and company have their own interests to look out for,
  6. The things about the Gulf kingdoms is that the natives make up a minority in most of the countries, but the royals buy them off with generous welfare benefits and cushy cradle-to-grace government jobs. All the while, as Steve said, importing more and more foreigners to do the actual work. These foreigners have no rights, cannot bring their families, and can be deported and sometimes even killed for whatever reason they so choose.

    That’s one hell of an egalitarian society. Yup.

    • Replies: @CCR
    I think you missed the whole point of the New Republic article, or else didn't read the excerpts.
  7. Wouldn’t it be easier for us to just invade Mexico and Central America and install ourselves as a governing caste over those benighted souls . That would save them the trouble of moving all the way here.

    We have a surplus of know it all do gooders who fancy themselves an enlightened class. They aren’t accomplishing too much here. How about we send them as colonial administrators, setting them loose forcing gay marriage on the Mayans and getting them out of our hair.

  8. And The New Republic is owned by a Facebook zillionaire, Chris Hughes

    Can forget about TNR coming out against quantitative easing any time soon, or ever.

  9. I was surprised to see such idiocy being peddled by a University of Chicago economics professor. Then I did a double take and realized he is just a law professor who seemingly specializes in “human rights law”.

  10. If you read Eric Posner’s stuff, you’ll notice he’s got a well developed sense of irony. See his article on stop and frisk, for example.

    But the point is legitimate. If you’re a utilitarian (not a nationalist or “citizenist”) then migrant labor with no civil rights may be the best way to provide the greatest good for the greatest number.

    • Replies: @MLK
    The greatest good for the greatest number would derive from liquidating Qatar's royals, and distributing the wealth they have arrogated to raise living standards for the world's poorest. They don't bring anything to the table in terms of Utility.

    You could pretty much leave everything else unchanged. If you really wanted to do it right, the least corruptible technocrats, say Singaporeans, would be brought in to manage the state.

    Their argument is too cute by half. Utility is the last thing that could possibly justify their continued rule.
  11. Once again, bad at math, but paying 4+ billion people $5,000 per year is over 20 Trillion Dollars a year.

    It seems far more reasonable for OECD countries to simply recolonize the 3rd world. That’s much less insane considering it’s been done many times over during the last few centuries.

  12. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “By taking in the 60 percent of the global population who make less than the bottom five percent in the United States and paying them $5,000 per year, the U.S. and Europe would reduce global inequality by roughly a third.”

    Let me get this straight: move 60% of ~7 billion to the US and Europe. Now we see the plan. They are showing the cards.

  13. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Steve,

    From an HBD perspective, any thoughts on what present day ethnicity might be able to substitute for North and South Koreans?? They are resilient hard chargers. Most of them are good-natured, even if stoic. Not often “big picture” oriented, but who else does what they do? Who else can? The extremeness of their measures… Not just North Korea, but anything Koreans decide to fully get behind…

  14. you know what? he’s right. mexicans are WAY over paid. THIS COUNTRY NEEDS A NEW TYPE OF SLAVE. a slave who makes even less money. you first, Eric! when are they going to move in to YOUR neighborhood, right next door to YOU??

  15. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Clearly Posner and Weyl are completely unfamiliar with the nation concept and what it can mean to people. Perhaps everything’s an economic transaction. But they clearly like the concept of slave labor. Repulsive guys, but there you go. Here’s how Qatar does it.:

    “…Adultery is punishable by death when a Muslim woman and a non-Muslim man are involved. …

    …In 2006, a Filipino woman was sentenced to 100 lashes for adultery. …

    …In 2010, at least 18 people (mostly foreign nationals) were sentenced to flogging of between 40 and 100 lashes for offences related to “illicit sexual relations” or alcohol consumption…

    …In 2011, at least 21 people (mostly foreign nationals) were sentenced to floggings of between 30 and 100 lashes for offences related to “illicit sexual relations” or alcohol consumption. …

    Stoning is a legal punishment in Qatar…

    …The UN Committee Against Torture found that these practices constituted a breach of the obligations imposed by the UN Convention Against Torture. …

    sponsors have the unilateral power to cancel workers’ residency permits, deny workers’ ability to change employers, report a worker as “absconded” to police authorities, and deny permission to leave the country.

    Darn run-away slaves! Aren’t these people _ever_ grateful??

    “…sponsors may restrict workers’ movements…

    …According to the ITUC, the visa sponsorship system allows the exaction of forced labour by making it difficult for a migrant worker to leave an abusive employer or travel overseas without permission. …

    …Qatar also does not maintain wage standards for its immigrant labour…

    …Nepalese ambassador to Qatar, Maya Kumari Sharma, described the emirate as an “open jail”. Qatar does not have national occupational health standards or guidelines, and workplace injuries are the third highest cause of accidental deaths.”

    Posner and Weyl seem fond of something that seems just a notch shy of outright slavery. Call it a limited slavery state. Temp slavery, if you will, makes you think of H1-Bs. I’m sure Posner and Weyl will agree it’s all for the good of the temp slaves souls; or their uplifting; or provides them with the structure they would otherwise lack… if nothing else it is good for their pocket-book, unless they happen to be North Koreans.

    Really, it’s probably a moral obligation for the US to adopt such a system.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Silber
    According to the ITUC, the visa sponsorship system allows the exaction of forced labour by making it difficult for a migrant worker to leave an abusive employer or travel overseas without permission. …

    Uncle Tan's Cabin.
  16. That’s an Onion headline, right?

  17. If this article is satire, well all is fine and dandy. However if it is a serious piece by the TNR it is a view into the mental and morally bankrupt world of our liberal elites. Not to mention their isolation from the rest of society.

  18. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The last section quoting the Guardian about “North Korea” is icing on the cake (the “Guardian” doesn’t have a single correspondent in the DPRK, and never has). “North Korea” in Cathedral media is a complete fabrication. The Guardian is Cathedral.

    Ever wondered why the communist Cathedral is so anti-DPRK? Because the DPRK isn’t communist. Despite how the Cathedral presents the DPRK to us, the DPRK (don’t be distracted by the Soviet-styled uniforms, which are actually kinda cool) is in reality– wait for it– the world’s only independent reactionary nation-state. It has all the characteristics of an ethnically pure monarchy. The fact that DPRK refuses to allow foreign media companies access to its market is presented to us– by our media companies– as oppression per se. LOLZ! The Cathedral narrative is that DPRK’s leadership deliberately engineered the famine of the 1990s because… and here the story trails off into non-meaning and circular logic. DPRK is a defiant victim, not a perpetrator. In his autobiography “With the Century”, Kim Il Sung rails against Leftism… in volume after volume.

    And yeah, I’ve been there. Multiple times.

    https://dprkinfo.wordpress.com/2014/11/07/courage/

    • Replies: @Hepp
    If you find yourself defending North Korea, it's a sign you've lost your mind with the whole neo-reactionary thing.
  19. Hard to believe that’s not some sort of Swiftian parody not meant to be taken seriously. They can’t be that painfully stupid, can they?

    • Replies: @International Jew
    "Hard to believe that’s not some sort of Swiftian parody not meant to be taken seriously. They can’t be that painfully stupid, can they?"

    Well, judging from most of the comments there, their readers are taking them seriously.
    , @Clyde

    Hard to believe that’s not some sort of Swiftian parody not meant to be taken seriously. They can’t be that painfully stupid, can they?
     
    Yes plus they are hi-IQ too. It is their own internal war against the middle of common sense. They also lack boundaries which is a common liberal affliction
  20. Off topic: Kovalev just destroyed and humiliated Bernard Hopkins to become the light heavy champ. Just a couple weeks ago, golovkin destroyed his opponent at middleweight. A lot of the nonsense myths about blacks being better athletes are being ended by the Soviet Bloc fighters being at least equally athletic and far more technically skilled. In fact, the black American fighters actively avoid Golovkin and Kovalev and want nothing to do with fighting them.

    Currently the best heavyweight, light heavy, and middleweight are all white – though Golovkin obviously is mixed with Asian, too. No one is more upset about this than the leftist sports media that is full of nerdy unathletic white guys who worship black athletes, which is why they will discuss the current white domination of boxing at middleweight and up about as much as they did Dave Brat winning bc of amnesty.

    The Great Black Hope will have to come from somewhere!

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Don't forget Vladimir Klitchko.

    Granted what you say has merit, but what about the various exSoviet athletes dabbling in PEDS? The Soviet Union clearly sanctioned the use of steroids for its athletes back in the day: Winning at all costs took precedence. Who's to say that PED usage isn't continuing now?

    LeBron has as many rings as Nowitski, no?
    , @gu
    "Off topic: Kovalev just destroyed and humiliated Bernard Hopkins to become the light heavy champ. Just a couple weeks ago, golovkin destroyed his opponent at middleweight. A lot of the nonsense myths about blacks being better athletes are being ended by the Soviet Bloc fighters being at least equally athletic and far more technically skilled."

    Hopkins is in his 40s you imbecile.
    , @Anonymous
    Golovkin is from Kazakhstan and is half-Korean. Stalin transferred a bunch of Koreans out of the Far East into Central Asia as a part of his population transfer policies.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Kovalev fought a great fight, but Hopkins is nearly 50 years old.
  21. You know, every time I hear how the various politicians want to bring peace, democracy, freedom, love, hardcore porn, and women & gay rights to Libya/ Iraq/ Syria/ Afghanistan, I ask myself… But what about UAE/ Kuwait/ Saudi Arabia?

    Every time I hear them bleat about how Putin is an evil “dictator” who hates gays and Pussy Riot and whatever, I ask myself… But what about UAE/ Kuwait/ Saudi Arabia?

    Every time I hear about how the fellows in Iran are crazed religious fanatics, I ask myself… But what about UAE/ Kuwait/ Saudi Arabia?

    The hypocrisy is mind-boggling.

    Also, I’ll never forget how most of the guys who got fingered for 9-11 were Saudis.

  22. Anybody else think Chris Hughes has an unusually excellent example of a Backpfeiffengesicht?

    Such a look of soft, spoiled, uncompromising arrogance. With his squillions, why should he compromise?

    On the other hand, I probably hate him so much because I recognize these traits when I look in the mirror at myself.

    Check out the story of his husband who ran for congress.
    http://freebeacon.com/blog/even-the-new-york-times-agrees-sean-eldridge-is-the-worst-candidate-of-2014/

    Hollywood screenwriters couldn’t come up with anything so ridiculous.

  23. The Gulf states maintain stability by: 1. spending a lot of money on a relatively small population to maintain ruling family support; 2. having giant pools of oil that can be sold off to foreign companies with little or no effort; 3. a repressive police state that brooks no opposition to the absolute monarchies that characterize the Gulf states, or any agitation for rights for the historic subjects of the regime, i.e. Gulf Arabs not migratory workers; 4. Absolute repression of the migratory workers who have no rights at all; and 5. Lots and lots and lots of foreign outside military repression to keep rulers in power — think the Saudis coming to the aid of the Bahrainis or the US to kick Saddam out of Kuwait.

    That’s not a model that can be copied outside of the essentials: Muslim hereditary rulers, lots of oil, small population that can be bribed and repressed.

    Look at the breakdown of Libya, of Syria, of Egypt, of Yemen, of Tunisia, and arguably in slow motion of Saudi Arabia. When a population becomes too big, or the oil runs out, or the regime can’t or won’t bribe and repress efficiently, the regime cracks apart. Without the Iranians and Russians Assad would have been as dead as Khadaffi by now. Egypt cycled through the Muslim Brothers and the Generals again. Tunisia seems set to follow that as does Libya. Egypt and Saudi Arabia have populations too big.

    America’s population is FAR TOO BIG for the idiocy of the New Republic to even work. Even IF you accept the entire premise of the argument, the population of America’s White, Black, and Hispanic citizens is too big — 310 million and counting, for that to work.

    There are things I like about historic Britain, about Switzerland, about New Zealand, about Denmark. But those are small countries with relatively small populations and small land mass compared to a big continental nation with now 310 million people. What works for Switzerland won’t work for us, based on scale and size alone.

    But yeah, the elite all move around a lot, inter-marry with other elites from other countries, races, and cultures, partake of a global hard-left culture, so they don’t find the idea of no nations, borders, or boundaries weird. Like Lena Dunham writing about the “amusing” child molestation she allegedly inflicted on her younger sister in her memoir, then not understanding why readers find it icky and repellent. No doubt her family found it funny, as did her editors (a more damning indictment of publishing can not be found — that no editor thought “this is icky, take it straight out to avoid disgusting and angering readers”). But the general public did not.

    I have heard a lot about how we need open borders to help the global poor and screw the natives of the Industrialized West in the Financial Times. It is that standard a belief in the West and among the Third World.

    But interestingly, China, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, Thailand, Singapore, and now Burma have all rejected it. Burma has told Muslims to “get out” essentially and leave as the new regime just won’t tolerate them any more. Thailand seems inching towards the same conclusion. Neither Japan nor China nor South Korea is opening up to mass Third World immigration, and indeed have ultra-restrictive immigration and residency policies.

    If you wanted to pick a model for a LARGE, manufacturing based nation to follow, Japan, or South Korea, or China would seem to offer a fairly comprehensive set of policies: export manufacturing, domestic protectionism to offer a base to assault foreign markets, high import AND labor tariffs on imported labor, authoritarianism, massive cultural conservatism, restriction on sexual activities and exhibitionism, crackdowns on gays, lesbians, open promiscuity, lots of nuclear power, mono racial dominance, no criticizing EVER of the history and culture of the nation.

    Those policies are proven winners. TNR article argues effectively that if you want to succeed in show business, be born a child of a famous show business person, like say Brian Williams daughter on “Girls.” Don’t be like “the 20th Century’s most unlikely cultural figure,” a nobody body builder from Austria arriving speaking not a word of English who by sheer willpower, determination, and hard work made himself into an Action Hero in the 1980s.

    China, South Korea, and Japan are models in the way that the Gulf is not because they have big populations, no oil, and succeed by manufacturing.

    • Replies: @Clyde

    The Gulf states maintain stability by.......
     
    Excellent post. I could not have said it better. The only thing you omitted are ruinous free trade policies the US elites have forced upon us.
    Just see free trade as an open borders policy for economic "items". The elites were not happy enough with this so now they try to foist open borders for people upon us just to get more consumers into America. The multiKultural promoting elites have their own reasons for open borders
  24. “There are, of course, many other unsavory aspects to these regimes, like the oppression of women and LGBT people, that no nation should imitate.”

    I think they would disappear in thin air if they didn’t say this kind of crap, once an article.

    I also don’t think that he is as full of crap as you make him seem. If you possess zero in group loyalty shitting on your countrymen to the benefit of 3rd worlders is a good idea. It’s his priorities/goals that are insane. His logic in attaining them is sound.

    However, it’s shocking that he seemingly believes that this is a popular policy because of idealism and not to benefit corporations. That’s a special kind of stupid.

  25. I think there’s a contest. Social theorists all get together in secret once a year and give out awards for most insane arguments in various categories; immigration, race, global inequality. And they tell themselves the same joke, over and over: “can you believe the shit we get away with?”

  26. All of this is just leftist maneuvering to get the camel’s nose under the tent of course. Once the helot class is here it will be the usual crap bleating about “the shadows” “tired poor huddled masses” etc etc

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    All of this is just leftist maneuvering to get the camel’s nose under the tent of course. Once the helot class is here it will be the usual crap bleating about “the shadows” “tired poor huddled masses” etc etc

     

    Exactly. There's way too much overthinking in this thread; Posner and Weyl's plan strikes me as pretty straightforward. The underclass in the USA is now kind of boring and disappointing, and since their votes for the Democratic Party are locked up anyway, it'd be much more fun to import a fresh new underclass. And it'd be so rewarding to show our European betters how well we could treat them, with free schooling and housing and food stamps and drivers' licenses and voting rights and perpetual family chain immigration . . . .
  27. Reading through the article, to me , it seems to say that open borders lead to a decrease in global inequality but an increase in domestic inequality (see chart inequality vs openness).

    “”The largest contribution to human well-being in the last few decades has come not from the U.S. or Europe but from China, whose authoritarian government has engineered massive economic growth for its poor populace, and from authoritarian countries in the Persian Gulf.”

    They also don’t notice improvements in South America.

    One of the authors wrote a book
    The Twilight of Human Rights Law (Inalienable Rights). It argues that nations should be judged by economic measures like poverty reduction not human rights. Which to me sounds like what the Reds used to say. The description at Amazon says Ghadafi’s Libya was one such human rights violator, but Ghadafi is looking good these days both in terms of human rights and poverty reduction compared to today’s Libya.

  28. greater economic inequality than existed even in Apartheid South Africa

    “Even”? The whites of South Africa weren’t exactly wallowing in luxury in the 20th century. Hell, a third of Afrikaners worked for the state. I remember Leon Louw claiming that SA had a modest income gradient by world standards.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    greater economic inequality than existed even in Apartheid South Africa

    “Even”? The whites of South Africa weren’t exactly wallowing in luxury in the 20th century. Hell, a third of Afrikaners worked for the state. I remember Leon Louw claiming that SA had a modest income gradient by world standards.
     
    The old joke was that Apartheid meant capitalism for the English and the Jews, socialism for the Afrikaners, and fascism for the Blacks
  29. Sad to see that byline. His father is usually more thoughtful than this.

  30. By Eric A. Posner and Glen Weyl (Oy Vey!!!!)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Posner

    He is the son of the federal appellate judge Richard Posner.

    http://glenweyl.com/biography/
    http://www.psmag.com/navigation/business-economics/30-top-thinkers-30-quadratic-voting-social-machine-glen-weyl-77239/

    E. Glen Weyl, 28, Economics

    “I’ve always been very politically active,” Glen Weyl says. When he was seven years old, he went door to door for Bill Clinton. Under the influence of a British cousin, he was a socialist by sixth grade. “But I started becoming a skater and doing very poorly in my classes, so for better or worse, my father gave me Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged to read. On the worse side, it turned me into a total jerk for about three years and totally alienated me from my middle-school classmates. On the better side, I started getting good grades and read about 10,000 pages of economics before finishing middle school.”

    So Weyl learned how to be a “socially conscious” Ayn Rand sociopath. Comes in handy.

    The next summer, Weyl worked for a hedge fund in Manhattan. He helped facilitate a trade that made his firm a lot of money but, in Weyl’s view, “took advantage of and contributed to some very harmful things that were going on in the market.” He asked his boss what service they were providing for which they were being so heftily rewarded. His boss replied: “Ours is not to question why, our is just to do and die.”

    If you think turning the USA into a nation of helots is a bad idea check out this:

    In 2007, Weyl graduated as the valedictorian of his undergraduate class at Princeton. Just a year later, he finished his Ph.D., also in economics, also at Princeton. He was elected to Harvard’s Society of Fellows, where he stayed until 2011, when he started as a professor at the University of Chicago. He likes teaching and is good at it, but he plans to devote the bulk of his professional life to developing a system he invented called quadratic voting (QV).

    Quadratic voting, he explains, is “a better way to make collective decisions that avoids the tyranny of the majority by allowing people to express how strongly they feel about an issue rather than just whether they are in favor of it or opposed to it.” By way of example, he says that QV would have allowed the LGBT community to overrule the majority support of California’s Proposition 8 because the issue of same-sex marriage is much more important to them than to everyone else. “I have come to believe it could solve a range of chronic social problems and I am dedicated to developing it along many dimensions in the coming years,” Weyl says.

    His idea is often met with skepticism. “Many people believe radical academic proposals like QV are dreams with no relevance to practical policymaking,” Weyl says. “While this may be true for a good while, I believe that in the long term, ideas shape the world.

    So this nice Jewish boy Glen Weyl can not allow having stale pale (goyim) males standing in the way of his bar mitzvah oath to dedicate his life to bringing about Tikkun Olam

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tikkun_olam

    His pet solution?

    Ending democracy as we know it.

    http://freakonomics.com/2012/10/31/an-alternative-to-democracy/

    Last spring, however, my colleague Glen Weyl mentioned an idea along these lines that was so simple and elegant that I was amazed no one had ever thought of it before. In Glen’s voting mechanism, every voter can vote as many times as he or she likes. The catch, however, is that you have to pay each time you vote, and the amount you have to pay is a function of the square of the number of votes you cast. As a consequence, each extra vote you cast costs more than the previous vote. Just for the sake of argument, let’s say the first vote costs you $1. Then to vote a second time would cost $4. The third vote would be $9, the fourth $16, and so on. One hundred votes would cost you $10,000. So eventually, no matter how much you like a candidate, you choose to vote a finite number of times.

    What is so special about this voting scheme? People end up voting in proportion to how much they care about the election outcome. The system captures not just which candidate you prefer, but how strong your preferences are. Given Glen’s assumptions, this turns out to be Pareto efficient — i.e., no person in society can be made better off without making someone else worse off.

    The first criticism you’ll likely make against this sort of scheme is that it favors the rich. At one level that is true relative to our current system. It might not be a popular argument, but one thing an economist might say is that the rich consume more of everything – why shouldn’t they consume more political influence? In our existing system of campaign contributions, there can be little doubt that the rich already have far more influence than the poor. So restricting campaign spending, in conjunction with this voting scheme, might be more democratic than our current system.

    Another possible criticism of Glen’s idea is that it leads to very strong incentives for cheating through vote buying. It is much cheaper to buy the first votes of a lot of uninterested citizens than it is to pay the price for my 100th vote. Once we put dollar values on votes, it is more likely that people will view votes through the lens of a financial transaction and be willing to buy and sell them.

    Eric and Glen, just a couple of nice connected Jewish boys who in their spare time can’t help but think up brilliant and novel ways of is dispossessing European whites of the civilization they created.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Is Glen Weyl related to Nathaniel Weyl, who died about 10 years ago at 95, who invented surname analysis (as recently revived by Gregory Clark)? Nathaniel Weyl wrote his first surname analysis book with Jerry Pournelle's mentor, Stefan Possony.
  31. From “The American Heritage College Writer’s Dictionary”:

    ‘human rights pl.n. The basic rights of all humans, often held to include the right to life and liberty, equality before the law, freedom from torture and slavery, and freedom of thought and expression.’

    ‘citizen n. 1. A person owing loyalty to and entitled to the protection of a given country.’

    –Not that it’s a hotbed of prescriptive conservatism (the “and in some jurisdictions . . . ” clause in the “marriage” entry will doubtless get redacted in future), but I’m edified to note that cradle-to-grave EBT, border hopping, and gender reassignment are not presently enumerated “human rights”. Indeed, there isn’t “equality of outcomes” or even the vaunted “equality of opportunity”.

    And dare it be hinted a citizen “owes loyalty to” before he becomes “entitled to” anything? Are we to surmise that countries do not owe protections to those who give them no loyalty?

  32. How much of the emphasis on “income inequality” instead of measures like “wealth inequality” or “social status inequality” is due to the fact that many journalists and professors come from wealthy families, but worry about eventually being surpassed by lesser lights like dentists and small businessmen?

  33. Since Steve sailer says race is not worth fighting for, who cares about open borders with Mexico, as long as the Mexicans are being paid.

  34. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Of all the lefty/libertarian/TheEconomist/EntirePoliticalClass bullshit and bollocks mendacious, lying, cheating, duplicitous, low down, god-damn diabolical lying articles whitewashing the supposed ‘benefits’ of immigration, this article takes the cake, and that really is saying something.
    The simple point is this. American poverty, whether it is relative or absolute, no matter which of the 200 nations on earth you cherry-pick to compare it to, is entirely a home grown American problem. Therefore, if Americans chose to live with the paupers in their midst and just more or less ignore them, or if on the other hand pauperdom in their midst annoys Americans enough to induce Americans to try and mitigate it, is a policy decision that is entirely down to American voters.
    What happens in Switzerland, Luxembourg, Singapore, Bangladesh, Haiti or Guatemala has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the question of ‘what to do about the beggar at my gate.’

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

    Therefore, if Americans chose to live with the paupers in their midst and just more or less ignore them, or if on the other hand pauperdom in their midst annoys Americans enough to induce Americans to try and mitigate it, is a policy decision that is entirely down to American voters.
     
    Two solutions for lowering future pauperdom in the USA that you are sure to never hear about from TNR or Marginal Revolutions. EUGENICS - very scary!!!

    Norplant and Vasalgel

    www.parsemusfoundation.org/vasalgel-faqs/

    I would love to see Steve write a piece on the potential revolutionary impact of Vasalgel on the wealth destroying criminal male underclass.

    Hopefully this last election shows that large numbers of the Republican base are finally getting their heads out their behinds over ridiculous Moral Majority attitudes towards birth control.
  35. Liberal people’s solution to end income inequality in the U.S is to have amnesty and open borders so that every poor 3rd world person on the planet can immigrate here. That won’t increase income inequality at all.

    • Replies: @CCR
    His point is it will decrease global income inequality.
  36. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The key difference between how the eminently sensible, rational, intelligent and thoughtful Gulf Arabs, (now there’s a phrase you thought you’d never hear on iSteve ), and the brainless, shit headed asssholes who run the west handle mass immigration into their nations is this – labor immigrants to the Gulf – and their really is no other kind – are never but never give citizenship, do a set job for a set amount of money, never ever ‘bring their families over’, never claim a damned cent in unearned Gulf money, and by far most importantly of all, they all, all of them, go home when their job’s done.
    Contrast this with the west. A lefty ‘think-tank’, sympathetic to mass immigration, recently was forced to concede that third world immigration has cost the UK taxpayer the not inconsiderable sum of £120 billion in the past 17 years.
    And to think it ‘only’ cost NASA £90 billion at current UK prices to fund the Apollo program.

    • Replies: @Truth

    The key difference between how the eminently sensible, rational, intelligent and thoughtful Gulf Arabs, (now there’s a phrase you thought you’d never hear on iSteve ), and the brainless, shit headed asssholes who run the west handle mass immigration into their nations is this –
     
    You shouldn't have any problem recognizing an asshole, bro.

    I currently live in Kuwait, and this article, while factually accurate does NOTHING to address the feeling on the actual streets here.
  37. “Massive indentured servitude with no civil rights — Great Idea!”

    maybe, but their children born in teh USA WILL have rights.

  38. The open borders people want a stratified demi-slave labor economy with no real possibility for those at the bottom to rise (or their own less impressive offspring to fall).

    Pay no attention to what they say their reasoning is (madness therein lies) pay attention to what their policies actually produce in the real world which is basically Mexico writ large (though the slaveholder mentality of the gulf states seems to appeal a lot to them as well).

    • Replies: @Ed
    They're not so much concerned about income inequality here but globally. So if a Haitian comes here and can only muster landing a minimum wage job, they consider it a victory.

    Then once the Haitian becomes a citizen or has US born kids, they can rile them up about the unfairness of America.
  39. I’m waiting for Bryan Caplan and Vipul Naik to show up and instruct us that increasing OECD countries’ populations six-fold by importing “dark-skinned” (Posner’s fantasy, not mine!) serfs is a “keyhole solution.” Last year those guys’ champ was Michael Clemens, who only wanted to increase OECD populations four-fold. What a small thinker he was! Six-fold is much better, it will reduce world inequality much more, and give millions of current OECD citizens new employment in the labor police. They won’t miss constitutional democracy; they were all rationally-ignorant non-voters anyway.

  40. Our Dear Rulers’ shameless megalomania moves them to tell Big Lies and, worse, to act upon those Lies.

    “And a hard rain’s a-gonna fall….”

  41. Damn. My attempt at satire in the other comment thread has been outdone by what this fellow wrote with (I presume) a straight face. I hope to see more arguments like this – nothing will help destroy people’s belief in democratic legitimacy faster. Because if the United States government doesn’t derive its authority from its own people…

  42. @anonymous-antimarxist

    By Eric A. Posner and Glen Weyl (Oy Vey!!!!)
     
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Posner

    He is the son of the federal appellate judge Richard Posner.
     
    http://glenweyl.com/biography/
    http://www.psmag.com/navigation/business-economics/30-top-thinkers-30-quadratic-voting-social-machine-glen-weyl-77239/

    E. Glen Weyl, 28, Economics

    “I’ve always been very politically active,” Glen Weyl says. When he was seven years old, he went door to door for Bill Clinton. Under the influence of a British cousin, he was a socialist by sixth grade. “But I started becoming a skater and doing very poorly in my classes, so for better or worse, my father gave me Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged to read. On the worse side, it turned me into a total jerk for about three years and totally alienated me from my middle-school classmates. On the better side, I started getting good grades and read about 10,000 pages of economics before finishing middle school.”
     

    So Weyl learned how to be a "socially conscious" Ayn Rand sociopath. Comes in handy.

    The next summer, Weyl worked for a hedge fund in Manhattan. He helped facilitate a trade that made his firm a lot of money but, in Weyl’s view, “took advantage of and contributed to some very harmful things that were going on in the market.” He asked his boss what service they were providing for which they were being so heftily rewarded. His boss replied: “Ours is not to question why, our is just to do and die.”

     

    If you think turning the USA into a nation of helots is a bad idea check out this:

    In 2007, Weyl graduated as the valedictorian of his undergraduate class at Princeton. Just a year later, he finished his Ph.D., also in economics, also at Princeton. He was elected to Harvard’s Society of Fellows, where he stayed until 2011, when he started as a professor at the University of Chicago. He likes teaching and is good at it, but he plans to devote the bulk of his professional life to developing a system he invented called quadratic voting (QV).

    Quadratic voting, he explains, is “a better way to make collective decisions that avoids the tyranny of the majority by allowing people to express how strongly they feel about an issue rather than just whether they are in favor of it or opposed to it.” By way of example, he says that QV would have allowed the LGBT community to overrule the majority support of California’s Proposition 8 because the issue of same-sex marriage is much more important to them than to everyone else. “I have come to believe it could solve a range of chronic social problems and I am dedicated to developing it along many dimensions in the coming years,” Weyl says.

    His idea is often met with skepticism. “Many people believe radical academic proposals like QV are dreams with no relevance to practical policymaking,” Weyl says. “While this may be true for a good while, I believe that in the long term, ideas shape the world.
     

    So this nice Jewish boy Glen Weyl can not allow having stale pale (goyim) males standing in the way of his bar mitzvah oath to dedicate his life to bringing about Tikkun Olam

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tikkun_olam

    His pet solution?

    Ending democracy as we know it.

    http://freakonomics.com/2012/10/31/an-alternative-to-democracy/


    Last spring, however, my colleague Glen Weyl mentioned an idea along these lines that was so simple and elegant that I was amazed no one had ever thought of it before. In Glen’s voting mechanism, every voter can vote as many times as he or she likes. The catch, however, is that you have to pay each time you vote, and the amount you have to pay is a function of the square of the number of votes you cast. As a consequence, each extra vote you cast costs more than the previous vote. Just for the sake of argument, let’s say the first vote costs you $1. Then to vote a second time would cost $4. The third vote would be $9, the fourth $16, and so on. One hundred votes would cost you $10,000. So eventually, no matter how much you like a candidate, you choose to vote a finite number of times.

    What is so special about this voting scheme? People end up voting in proportion to how much they care about the election outcome. The system captures not just which candidate you prefer, but how strong your preferences are. Given Glen’s assumptions, this turns out to be Pareto efficient — i.e., no person in society can be made better off without making someone else worse off.

    The first criticism you’ll likely make against this sort of scheme is that it favors the rich. At one level that is true relative to our current system. It might not be a popular argument, but one thing an economist might say is that the rich consume more of everything – why shouldn’t they consume more political influence? In our existing system of campaign contributions, there can be little doubt that the rich already have far more influence than the poor. So restricting campaign spending, in conjunction with this voting scheme, might be more democratic than our current system.

    Another possible criticism of Glen’s idea is that it leads to very strong incentives for cheating through vote buying. It is much cheaper to buy the first votes of a lot of uninterested citizens than it is to pay the price for my 100th vote. Once we put dollar values on votes, it is more likely that people will view votes through the lens of a financial transaction and be willing to buy and sell them.
     

    Eric and Glen, just a couple of nice connected Jewish boys who in their spare time can't help but think up brilliant and novel ways of is dispossessing European whites of the civilization they created.

    Is Glen Weyl related to Nathaniel Weyl, who died about 10 years ago at 95, who invented surname analysis (as recently revived by Gregory Clark)? Nathaniel Weyl wrote his first surname analysis book with Jerry Pournelle’s mentor, Stefan Possony.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    Nope!! But a good guess

    Nathaniel Weyl did not have a son named Stephen. And Nathaniel was the only son of TNR founder Walter Weyl.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathaniel_Weyl
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Weyl

    Could still be an offshoot of the clan.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Is Glen Weyl related to Nathaniel Weyl…?
     
    The first thing to come to mind reading this was, they don't make Weyls like Nathaniel anymore!

    "Posner" itself sounds like a less exotic version of "Possony". It's not from the same place name, is it?

    By the way, do we pronounce it "Gutter" or "Catarrh"? I prefer "Kotter" myself.
  43. @Anonymous
    The key difference between how the eminently sensible, rational, intelligent and thoughtful Gulf Arabs, (now there's a phrase you thought you'd never hear on iSteve ), and the brainless, shit headed asssholes who run the west handle mass immigration into their nations is this - labor immigrants to the Gulf - and their really is no other kind - are never but never give citizenship, do a set job for a set amount of money, never ever 'bring their families over', never claim a damned cent in unearned Gulf money, and by far most importantly of all, they all, all of them, go home when their job's done.
    Contrast this with the west. A lefty 'think-tank', sympathetic to mass immigration, recently was forced to concede that third world immigration has cost the UK taxpayer the not inconsiderable sum of £120 billion in the past 17 years.
    And to think it 'only' cost NASA £90 billion at current UK prices to fund the Apollo program.

    The key difference between how the eminently sensible, rational, intelligent and thoughtful Gulf Arabs, (now there’s a phrase you thought you’d never hear on iSteve ), and the brainless, shit headed asssholes who run the west handle mass immigration into their nations is this –

    You shouldn’t have any problem recognizing an asshole, bro.

    I currently live in Kuwait, and this article, while factually accurate does NOTHING to address the feeling on the actual streets here.

  44. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Truth,
    What is the ‘feeling on the actual street’ in Kuwait?
    I’m just curious to know – I’ve never been there. Do the real ‘actual’ Kuwaitis fully support the government’s immigration, nationality and citizenship laws, or is all the malcontence amongst the immigrants?
    Well, if the immigrants don’t like it, they all know what they can do, as doubtless many Kuwaitis will tell them.

    • Replies: @Truth
    I live in Mahboula which is a suburb of Kuwait City, and probably 95% expat. The official government line is that they are trying to reduce the foreign population, however in my neighborhood, which I would estimate is 80% South Asian, 10% Philipino, 4% Ethiopian, 1% "Western", I counted 21 high-rises being built within a 10 minute walk.

    What I don't understand is what they are going to do with them if there are no cheap-labor expats, as the Indian's/Paki's/Sri-Lankan's jobs seem to be...to build more buildings for a new generation of South-Asian expats.

    Again the neighborhood is literally 95% men, as they bring very few Indian women here, nor do they, generally speaking bring Philipino men, as they like to bring South Asian men to do the heavy lifting, and Philipinas to work indoors in customer service.

    Kuwaitis are somewhat closed, and they do not seem to mind too much, they are as arrogant as you can imagine, and one of their moves is to drive up to the local bodegas, honk impatiently, for the "boy" to come out and wait on them - this in a store with no drive-through window.

    The Indians seem to hate it pretty much, this is not Dubai, or even Bahrain, and liquor is illegal. Many of them become homosexuals as there are no women around, they lose their passports, and even though they make about triple what they would be making in the Indian diaspora, they seem resentful of the Kuwaitis who look on them with about triple the dislike that a Hollywood movie mogul's wife looks upon her Salvadorian maid.
  45. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Talking about that Kovalev boxing victory, has anyone else noticed that professional boxing and boxers hardly get the ‘superstar’ publicity and acclaim they used to get way back in the 1970s, and now are hardly mentioned and lionized.
    – Could it be something to do with the fact that American, specifically black American boxers no longer dominate the sport, in particular east Euros now dominate the heavier divisions, and thus the whole publicity machine has wound down?

    • Replies: @Truth

    has anyone else noticed that professional boxing and boxers hardly get the ‘superstar’ publicity and acclaim they used to get way back in the 1970s, and now are hardly mentioned and lionized.
    – Could it be something to do with the fact that American, specifically black American boxers no longer dominate the sport, in particular east Euros now dominate the heavier divisions, and thus the whole publicity machine has wound down?
     
    Well no, it "could" be something to do with the fact that the 3 major sports are unified entriesrun by multi-billion dollar corporations, that have learned, over time, to market themselves, whereas the small-time independent criminals/cum "promoters" that run boxing simply cannot compete.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    The best pound-for-pound boxer today is black (Floyd Mayweather). The reason boxing doesn't get talked about as much today is that the best fighters fight so infrequently.
  46. • Replies: @reiner Tor
    What do you guys do when the NYT asks you to register after ten articles per month? My strategy is to think twice before thinking twice to read an article there. That way I rarely hit the limit before the 30th, although October was a 31-day month so I had to survive a full day without NYT articles. Fortunately for me Steve Sailer is doing all the NYT-reading for me, so there's little need for me doing it as well.
  47. “…Silicon Valley billionaires from their monopolies, such as Facebook…”

    Facebook a monopoly? I don’t think it is. What about all those other similar websites you can choose to you, but are less popular? Like Hyves for example?

  48. Or maybe related to this Weyl:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Weyl

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Is Glen Weyl related to Nathaniel Weyl…?
     
    The byline made me think, they don't make Weyls like Nathaniel anymore! And "Posner" is suspiciously close to "Possony".

    By the way, do we pronounce it "Gutter", or "Catarrh"? I think "Kotter" sounds best in English.
    , @Anonymous
    The mathematician Hermann Weyl wasn't of Jewish ancestry, though his wife was.
  49. Thousands of migrant labourers from North Korea are toiling for years on construction sites in Qatar for virtually no pay.

    In Liberal circles of America “toiling for years for virtually no pay” describes the terms of an internship.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

    In Liberal circles of America “toiling for years for virtually no pay” describes the terms of an internship.
     
    Also describes the economic model of the TNR. Have interns work for free cranking out copy. In the meanwhile see if they can escape the piercing gaze and grasping arms of their superiors, like Andrew Sullivan or Marty Peretz.

    Most parents expect their kids to get a paying job out of college, if for no other reason, than they can not afford to continue to support their spawn. But if your primary goal is to pursue TIKKUN OLAM and not a legitimate career, chances are your parents can afford it.

    But, do so for a couple of years and you can land a nice paying gig at the NYTs or WAPO that the rest of the goyim budding journalists can only dream of.

    System worked great until Stephen Glass came along. But then what did Peretz expect was going to happen? It's not like he was exactly paying for research.

  50. @anonymous
    Clearly Posner and Weyl are completely unfamiliar with the nation concept and what it can mean to people. Perhaps everything's an economic transaction. But they clearly like the concept of slave labor. Repulsive guys, but there you go. Here's how Qatar does it.:


    "...Adultery is punishable by death when a Muslim woman and a non-Muslim man are involved. ...

    ...In 2006, a Filipino woman was sentenced to 100 lashes for adultery. ...

    ...In 2010, at least 18 people (mostly foreign nationals) were sentenced to flogging of between 40 and 100 lashes for offences related to “illicit sexual relations” or alcohol consumption...

    ...In 2011, at least 21 people (mostly foreign nationals) were sentenced to floggings of between 30 and 100 lashes for offences related to “illicit sexual relations” or alcohol consumption. ...

    Stoning is a legal punishment in Qatar...

    ...The UN Committee Against Torture found that these practices constituted a breach of the obligations imposed by the UN Convention Against Torture. ...

    ...sponsors have the unilateral power to cancel workers' residency permits, deny workers' ability to change employers, report a worker as "absconded" to police authorities, and deny permission to leave the country."

     

    Darn run-away slaves! Aren't these people _ever_ grateful??


    "...sponsors may restrict workers’ movements...

    ...According to the ITUC, the visa sponsorship system allows the exaction of forced labour by making it difficult for a migrant worker to leave an abusive employer or travel overseas without permission. ...

    ...Qatar also does not maintain wage standards for its immigrant labour...

    ...Nepalese ambassador to Qatar, Maya Kumari Sharma, described the emirate as an "open jail". Qatar does not have national occupational health standards or guidelines, and workplace injuries are the third highest cause of accidental deaths."

     

    Posner and Weyl seem fond of something that seems just a notch shy of outright slavery. Call it a limited slavery state. Temp slavery, if you will, makes you think of H1-Bs. I'm sure Posner and Weyl will agree it's all for the good of the temp slaves souls; or their uplifting; or provides them with the structure they would otherwise lack... if nothing else it is good for their pocket-book, unless they happen to be North Koreans.

    Really, it's probably a moral obligation for the US to adopt such a system.

    According to the ITUC, the visa sponsorship system allows the exaction of forced labour by making it difficult for a migrant worker to leave an abusive employer or travel overseas without permission. …

    Uncle Tan’s Cabin.

  51. The key failing of economics is that they see all people as atomistic and de-emphasize the importance of society. The key contribution of economists is that they can think through the logic of the marketplace. Economists have their uses, as long as you can keep in mind their key failing.

    The main insight of economics regarding immigration is that as long as you can scale up ALL other factors, admitting new immigrants doesnt affect market conditions for native. If the skills of immigrants are complimentary to natives there may be some market benefits.

    Economists have little to say about the non-market effects of immigrants. If you think the impact of immigration on social trust or crime or governance are important, then economics will have little to say about that. Fine, at least they are not sociologists.

    BUT

    We live in a country with a broken financial system. The market wont scale up capital investment and it definitely cannot scale up housing. We have a political system that wont allow the scaling up of infrastructure. In the major areas where immigration is important, we cant scale up land because major cities are in the desert and we are in the midst of a historic drought (plus Rob Reiner and friends). Scaling up education and human capital seems to have been at a standstill for 3 decades; you don’t have to be a HBD person to acknowledge that. Economists who wont acknowledge all of those facts even as arguments that need to be tackled before we drastically expand immigration are essentially dishonest.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The huddled billions can all take the L.A. Subway to the Sea.

    Oh, wait ...

    , @C. Van Carter
    Nobel prize winner James M. Buchanan recognized the non-market effects of immigration. His name is on a building at GMU.
  52. At the public policy blog of the American Enterprise Institute:

    It turns out that between 1970 and 2010 the worst poverty in the world – people who live on one dollar a day or less – that has decreased by 80 percent (see chart above). You never hear about that.

    It’s the greatest achievement in human history, and you never hear about it.

    80 percent of the world’s worst poverty has been eradicated in less than 40 years. That has never, ever happened before.

    So what did that? What accounts for that? United Nations? US foreign aid? The International Monetary Fund? Central planning? No.

    It was globalization, free trade, the boom in international entrepreneurship. In short, it was the free enterprise system, American style, which is our gift to the world.

    http://www.aei.org/publication/chart-of-the-greatest-and-most-remarkable-achievement-in-human-history-and-one-you-probably-never-heard-about/

  53. Hermann Weyl was famous as an “intuitionist” vis-a-vis the ontological status of mathematical entities. Interestingly, 20th C math recapitulated the three positions of the argument over universals that the Medieval Schoolmen debated. One of those instances of intellectual history rhyming …

    Oh yeah, and I used to play Little League against Congressman Gibson who curb-stomped Hughes’ “husband.”

    • Replies: @Jim
    Hermann Weyl was an intuitionist only for a few years.
    , @WhatEvvs
    Happy about that too. I think hubby ran somewhere else as a carpetbagger as well and lost. Unfortunately he has quite a few millions more to run through before he loses his last election.

    PS I note that in Ulster county the vote was closer than in Dutchess.

  54. @SFG
    OT, but may want the Sailerites to hit the comments, here's another disgusting offering by Tyler "Beano" Cowen:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/09/upshot/a-strategy-for-rich-countries-absorb-more-immigrants.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

    What do you guys do when the NYT asks you to register after ten articles per month? My strategy is to think twice before thinking twice to read an article there. That way I rarely hit the limit before the 30th, although October was a 31-day month so I had to survive a full day without NYT articles. Fortunately for me Steve Sailer is doing all the NYT-reading for me, so there’s little need for me doing it as well.

    • Replies: @Roland
    Delete your cookies.
    , @Torn and Frayed
    Just open articles in an incognito window once you have reached your limit. It works every time!
    , @notsaying
    #55 -

    Reading New York Times articles

    In the US, if you find NY Times articles through a search engine and bring them up from there, they do not "count" in the 10 article a month limit.

    So I just copy out the article headline or throw a few words of the headline into Google and the article will almost always appear at the top of the list.

    I also use Google to access the full text of the locked Wall St Journal articles. I do not bring up all that many each month at home. The WSJ may do a count and stop at 10 or 20 articles in a month, I
    , @CJ
    Yes, Steve reads them so we don't have to. But if you really want to read an 11th article from NYT or National Post or The Independent, you can:

    1. Delete your cookies. You actually only need to delete the cookies of the site you want to read. Or,

    2. Delete all history and temporary whatever with a program like Piriform Ccleaner. Or,

    3. Using Firefox or a related browser like Pale Moon, use Open in Private Tab to read the story.
  55. I’ll become concerned about income equality when people who earn over $150K per year stand on street corners handing out $100 bills.

  56. I was scrolling down the comments, and flashed by a long entry, where I caught the words at random, “Libya” and “Lena Dunham”, and I scrolled back up, just to see if it was Whiskey.

  57. @Ezra
    The key failing of economics is that they see all people as atomistic and de-emphasize the importance of society. The key contribution of economists is that they can think through the logic of the marketplace. Economists have their uses, as long as you can keep in mind their key failing.

    The main insight of economics regarding immigration is that as long as you can scale up ALL other factors, admitting new immigrants doesnt affect market conditions for native. If the skills of immigrants are complimentary to natives there may be some market benefits.

    Economists have little to say about the non-market effects of immigrants. If you think the impact of immigration on social trust or crime or governance are important, then economics will have little to say about that. Fine, at least they are not sociologists.

    BUT

    We live in a country with a broken financial system. The market wont scale up capital investment and it definitely cannot scale up housing. We have a political system that wont allow the scaling up of infrastructure. In the major areas where immigration is important, we cant scale up land because major cities are in the desert and we are in the midst of a historic drought (plus Rob Reiner and friends). Scaling up education and human capital seems to have been at a standstill for 3 decades; you don't have to be a HBD person to acknowledge that. Economists who wont acknowledge all of those facts even as arguments that need to be tackled before we drastically expand immigration are essentially dishonest.

    The huddled billions can all take the L.A. Subway to the Sea.

    Oh, wait …

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    And at the final stop, they can get out and go live in cramped trailer parks in Malibu.
  58. This is “closing the gap” writ large.

  59. @Jonathan Silber
    Thousands of migrant labourers from North Korea are toiling for years on construction sites in Qatar for virtually no pay.

    In Liberal circles of America "toiling for years for virtually no pay" describes the terms of an internship.

    In Liberal circles of America “toiling for years for virtually no pay” describes the terms of an internship.

    Also describes the economic model of the TNR. Have interns work for free cranking out copy. In the meanwhile see if they can escape the piercing gaze and grasping arms of their superiors, like Andrew Sullivan or Marty Peretz.

    Most parents expect their kids to get a paying job out of college, if for no other reason, than they can not afford to continue to support their spawn. But if your primary goal is to pursue TIKKUN OLAM and not a legitimate career, chances are your parents can afford it.

    But, do so for a couple of years and you can land a nice paying gig at the NYTs or WAPO that the rest of the goyim budding journalists can only dream of.

    System worked great until Stephen Glass came along. But then what did Peretz expect was going to happen? It’s not like he was exactly paying for research.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The opening text of the movie about Stephen Glass at TNR explains that the average staffer was 26 years old, which explains why Glass could get away for so long with making up nonsense.
  60. So if you care about inequality, you should care about global inequality. Is there anything that can be done about it?

    But I don’t “care about inequality”. I care about my people, the American nation. Just as Eric cares about his people, the Jewish nation. What an Indian does to his fellow Indians is no concern of mine. How a Chinaman treats his fellow Chinamen is not my affair. For my own personal reasons, having been raised as a Christian, I will not exploit them, or try to reengineer them, their economy or their culture, but it is not because I owe them “equality” with me, but because of my own cultural and religious predilections. Which they may (or may not) share.

    Eric is a nice kid, but he is a really bright spergish Jewish libertarian. I was in law school classes with him, four hours a day for a year, plus a couple other courses after that. He came across just like this article. And, no, he is not being ironic. Eric is serious, just like his really bright spergish Jewish libertarian dad (free market in baby/organ selling etc.).

  61. @anonymous-antimarxist

    In Liberal circles of America “toiling for years for virtually no pay” describes the terms of an internship.
     
    Also describes the economic model of the TNR. Have interns work for free cranking out copy. In the meanwhile see if they can escape the piercing gaze and grasping arms of their superiors, like Andrew Sullivan or Marty Peretz.

    Most parents expect their kids to get a paying job out of college, if for no other reason, than they can not afford to continue to support their spawn. But if your primary goal is to pursue TIKKUN OLAM and not a legitimate career, chances are your parents can afford it.

    But, do so for a couple of years and you can land a nice paying gig at the NYTs or WAPO that the rest of the goyim budding journalists can only dream of.

    System worked great until Stephen Glass came along. But then what did Peretz expect was going to happen? It's not like he was exactly paying for research.

    The opening text of the movie about Stephen Glass at TNR explains that the average staffer was 26 years old, which explains why Glass could get away for so long with making up nonsense.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    Yes and what was left out of Shattered Glass was that Stephen Glass was a closeted gay man who tried to pass as bi. And of course that his supervisor Andrew Sullivan who hired him was fabulously gay and Marty Peretz the publisher and rabid unhinged zionist often took a careful interest in grooming the careers of his young male charges.

    Silly Sully was left out of the movie and Marty was played as fully hetero by Orthodox, Greek that is, Ted Kotcheff.

    In the movie Michael Kelly(a straight goyim) played by Hank Azzaria(Jew) takes the fall for not recognizing Glass's fabulism. Which of course was discovered by Charles Lane, a Jew played by the very blond goyim, Peter Sarsgaard.

    Gotta love Hollywood.

    Good to see under the new regime, not much has changed at TNR.

  62. Gosh Steve

    If you want to find out the parents of wealthy connected TWMNBNs where else are you going to look. You should know this by now you goyishe kop!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/fashion/weddings/22holland.html?_r=0

    He is the son of Lorraine Hariton and Stephen Weyl, who live and work in Washington. The bridegroom’s mother is the special representative for commercial and business affairs in the bureau of economic, energy and business affairs at the State Department. His father is an executive vice president of Invism, an educational technology company in Greenwood Village, Colo. He manages technology and intellectual property

    .

    It’s worth reading the entire wedding announcement, it is that stunningly SWPL.

    More on Stephen Weyl
    http://www.invism.com/about-us/team.html

    Steve Weyl, Executive Vice President

    With over 30 years of technology industry experience and a decade of general manager expertise, Steve has worked in research, engineering, marketing and sales and has oversight of innovation and development for InVisM. Prior to InVisM, Steve was President of Ricoh Innovations, Inc., a subsidiary of Ricoh Company Ltd of Japan. There he executed Ricoh’s acquisition of IBM’s Printing Systems Division and led Ricoh’s corporate venture capital group and corporate entrepreneurship programs in the U.S. Before Ricoh, Steve founded three Silicon Valley startups, led the Network Services Integration Division at IBM, and directed Apple Computer Tools Groups. Early in his career, Steve performed advanced research and engineering work at SRI, Stanford, Exxon, and American Express. Steve holds an M.S. in computer science and B.S. in mathematics from Stanford University and an MBA from Harvard University, where he was a Baker Scholar.

  63. @Polynices
    Hard to believe that's not some sort of Swiftian parody not meant to be taken seriously. They can't be that painfully stupid, can they?

    “Hard to believe that’s not some sort of Swiftian parody not meant to be taken seriously. They can’t be that painfully stupid, can they?”

    Well, judging from most of the comments there, their readers are taking them seriously.

  64. I wonder how many of those third worlders supposedly “living on” 3 or 4 thousand a year are actually doing okay but are off the books.

  65. Perhaps the best way to solve the world’s poverty and general social problems really is a British Empire-style colonialism. Just make sure that you are sending your overseers and advisers to their countries and that you don’t allow their people to come to your host country. Much better than inviting all of them to come to your country as we currently do.

    • Replies: @Numinous

    Perhaps the best way to solve the world’s poverty and general social problems really is a British Empire-style colonialism.
     
    No, thanks! It's been tried before, and it enriched no one other than the British themselves. A number (though by no means all) of social pathologies in the formerly colonized countries can be traced directly to the colonial era. The overbearing and often corrupt bureaucrats in much of the Third World have their direct predecessors in those "overseers", as you put it.

    Your comment is emblematic of why the discourse on these comment boards is so perverse. The whole immigration debate is purely between American conservatives and American liberals. It has nothing to do with the immigrants themselves, who have no standing in the debate. Leave them and their countries alone. People in other countries do not try to guilt-trip Americans into liberalizing immigration; it's the American liberals who do. If you can win the debate and institute immigration laws of your choice, good for you. The flow of immigrations will stop (again, Mexico may be an exception.) In reality, it is quite difficult and expensive for anyone other than a Mexican to emigrate to the US.
  66. @reiner Tor
    What do you guys do when the NYT asks you to register after ten articles per month? My strategy is to think twice before thinking twice to read an article there. That way I rarely hit the limit before the 30th, although October was a 31-day month so I had to survive a full day without NYT articles. Fortunately for me Steve Sailer is doing all the NYT-reading for me, so there's little need for me doing it as well.

    Delete your cookies.

  67. Haha. So those Pakistani guys in orange jumpsuits that you see all over the Gulf are “immigrants”? Sure.

  68. @Steve Sailer
    The opening text of the movie about Stephen Glass at TNR explains that the average staffer was 26 years old, which explains why Glass could get away for so long with making up nonsense.

    Yes and what was left out of Shattered Glass was that Stephen Glass was a closeted gay man who tried to pass as bi. And of course that his supervisor Andrew Sullivan who hired him was fabulously gay and Marty Peretz the publisher and rabid unhinged zionist often took a careful interest in grooming the careers of his young male charges.

    Silly Sully was left out of the movie and Marty was played as fully hetero by Orthodox, Greek that is, Ted Kotcheff.

    In the movie Michael Kelly(a straight goyim) played by Hank Azzaria(Jew) takes the fall for not recognizing Glass’s fabulism. Which of course was discovered by Charles Lane, a Jew played by the very blond goyim, Peter Sarsgaard.

    Gotta love Hollywood.

    Good to see under the new regime, not much has changed at TNR.

  69. “If the OECD countries copied the migration policies of the GCC countries, they would reduce global inequality by much more than their welfare systems do within their borders.”

    That would include the policies that Anonymous @ 36 helpfully point out.

    They’re also embarrassingly arguing that building sports stadiums is economic growth.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "They’re also embarrassingly arguing that building sports stadiums is economic growth."

    I'm reminded of an Onion headline:

    "Study finds that 88% of soccer stadiums used for mass executions of dissidents"

  70. The absurd worries of the Jews. Since when did poverty itself become a problem to be eradicated?
    Since when did life itself become a problem?

    Here’s a pic of the U of C law library:

    Nothing human can come out three years of sh+t like that.

  71. @Steve Sailer
    Is Glen Weyl related to Nathaniel Weyl, who died about 10 years ago at 95, who invented surname analysis (as recently revived by Gregory Clark)? Nathaniel Weyl wrote his first surname analysis book with Jerry Pournelle's mentor, Stefan Possony.

    Nope!! But a good guess

    Nathaniel Weyl did not have a son named Stephen. And Nathaniel was the only son of TNR founder Walter Weyl.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathaniel_Weyl
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Weyl

    Could still be an offshoot of the clan.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    There's just enough time to be a great-grandson (25 year generations), but there are various Weyls in the world.
  72. @Anonymous
    The last section quoting the Guardian about "North Korea" is icing on the cake (the "Guardian" doesn't have a single correspondent in the DPRK, and never has). "North Korea" in Cathedral media is a complete fabrication. The Guardian is Cathedral.

    Ever wondered why the communist Cathedral is so anti-DPRK? Because the DPRK isn't communist. Despite how the Cathedral presents the DPRK to us, the DPRK (don't be distracted by the Soviet-styled uniforms, which are actually kinda cool) is in reality-- wait for it-- the world's only independent reactionary nation-state. It has all the characteristics of an ethnically pure monarchy. The fact that DPRK refuses to allow foreign media companies access to its market is presented to us-- by our media companies-- as oppression per se. LOLZ! The Cathedral narrative is that DPRK's leadership deliberately engineered the famine of the 1990s because... and here the story trails off into non-meaning and circular logic. DPRK is a defiant victim, not a perpetrator. In his autobiography "With the Century", Kim Il Sung rails against Leftism... in volume after volume.

    And yeah, I've been there. Multiple times.

    https://dprkinfo.wordpress.com/2014/11/07/courage/

    If you find yourself defending North Korea, it’s a sign you’ve lost your mind with the whole neo-reactionary thing.

  73. @Curious
    Perhaps the best way to solve the world's poverty and general social problems really is a British Empire-style colonialism. Just make sure that you are sending your overseers and advisers to their countries and that you don't allow their people to come to your host country. Much better than inviting all of them to come to your country as we currently do.

    Perhaps the best way to solve the world’s poverty and general social problems really is a British Empire-style colonialism.

    No, thanks! It’s been tried before, and it enriched no one other than the British themselves. A number (though by no means all) of social pathologies in the formerly colonized countries can be traced directly to the colonial era. The overbearing and often corrupt bureaucrats in much of the Third World have their direct predecessors in those “overseers”, as you put it.

    Your comment is emblematic of why the discourse on these comment boards is so perverse. The whole immigration debate is purely between American conservatives and American liberals. It has nothing to do with the immigrants themselves, who have no standing in the debate. Leave them and their countries alone. People in other countries do not try to guilt-trip Americans into liberalizing immigration; it’s the American liberals who do. If you can win the debate and institute immigration laws of your choice, good for you. The flow of immigrations will stop (again, Mexico may be an exception.) In reality, it is quite difficult and expensive for anyone other than a Mexican to emigrate to the US.

  74. @Reg Cæsar

    greater economic inequality than existed even in Apartheid South Africa
     
    "Even"? The whites of South Africa weren't exactly wallowing in luxury in the 20th century. Hell, a third of Afrikaners worked for the state. I remember Leon Louw claiming that SA had a modest income gradient by world standards.

    greater economic inequality than existed even in Apartheid South Africa

    “Even”? The whites of South Africa weren’t exactly wallowing in luxury in the 20th century. Hell, a third of Afrikaners worked for the state. I remember Leon Louw claiming that SA had a modest income gradient by world standards.

    The old joke was that Apartheid meant capitalism for the English and the Jews, socialism for the Afrikaners, and fascism for the Blacks

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

    socialism for the Afrikaners
     
    Really!!!

    I say if things go to hell in a hand basket in SA overnight. Give all the Afrikaners a permanent visa. They will make excellent net tax payers and a great counter balance to La Raza.
  75. @reiner tor – use private browsing mode on your web browser

  76. @Anonymous
    Of all the lefty/libertarian/TheEconomist/EntirePoliticalClass bullshit and bollocks mendacious, lying, cheating, duplicitous, low down, god-damn diabolical lying articles whitewashing the supposed 'benefits' of immigration, this article takes the cake, and that really is saying something.
    The simple point is this. American poverty, whether it is relative or absolute, no matter which of the 200 nations on earth you cherry-pick to compare it to, is entirely a home grown American problem. Therefore, if Americans chose to live with the paupers in their midst and just more or less ignore them, or if on the other hand pauperdom in their midst annoys Americans enough to induce Americans to try and mitigate it, is a policy decision that is entirely down to American voters.
    What happens in Switzerland, Luxembourg, Singapore, Bangladesh, Haiti or Guatemala has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the question of 'what to do about the beggar at my gate.'

    Therefore, if Americans chose to live with the paupers in their midst and just more or less ignore them, or if on the other hand pauperdom in their midst annoys Americans enough to induce Americans to try and mitigate it, is a policy decision that is entirely down to American voters.

    Two solutions for lowering future pauperdom in the USA that you are sure to never hear about from TNR or Marginal Revolutions. EUGENICS – very scary!!!

    Norplant and Vasalgel

    http://www.parsemusfoundation.org/vasalgel-faqs/

    I would love to see Steve write a piece on the potential revolutionary impact of Vasalgel on the wealth destroying criminal male underclass.

    Hopefully this last election shows that large numbers of the Republican base are finally getting their heads out their behinds over ridiculous Moral Majority attitudes towards birth control.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    …ridiculous Moral Majority attitudes towards birth control.
     
    Sounds like you're advocating compulsory birth control. If you believe opposition to that is limited to the "Moral Majority", then they're not the only ones suffering from cranium-in-the-colon.

    Back when white folks were truly patriotic and racially aware, they were also horrified by birth control, never mind abortion.

    The big Supreme Court case freeing up contraception came out of Connecticut.

    Connecticut!

  77. @syonredux

    greater economic inequality than existed even in Apartheid South Africa

    “Even”? The whites of South Africa weren’t exactly wallowing in luxury in the 20th century. Hell, a third of Afrikaners worked for the state. I remember Leon Louw claiming that SA had a modest income gradient by world standards.
     
    The old joke was that Apartheid meant capitalism for the English and the Jews, socialism for the Afrikaners, and fascism for the Blacks

    socialism for the Afrikaners

    Really!!!

    I say if things go to hell in a hand basket in SA overnight. Give all the Afrikaners a permanent visa. They will make excellent net tax payers and a great counter balance to La Raza.

  78. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    One thing that you will never, ever see in one if these Gulf Arab states, is a foreigner, any foreigner doing a non-menial’ non manual labor type job, if, an unemployed Gulf Arab, any Gulf Arab is equally qualified and willing to do the job.
    Unabashedly, the Gulf Arab will be favored by his own government.
    This is a state of affairs that simply doesn’t exist in the UK, for example. There, the indigenous native is often disqualified in favor of ‘favored’ categories of foreigner, most particularly government employment will do this.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    When P.J. O'Rourke spent some time in the Persian Gulf covering the run up to the 1991 Gulf War he and the other reporters had a pool for the first one to see an Arab native pick up anything heavier than money.
  79. @Anonymous
    Truth,
    What is the 'feeling on the actual street' in Kuwait?
    I'm just curious to know - I've never been there. Do the real 'actual' Kuwaitis fully support the government's immigration, nationality and citizenship laws, or is all the malcontence amongst the immigrants?
    Well, if the immigrants don't like it, they all know what they can do, as doubtless many Kuwaitis will tell them.

    I live in Mahboula which is a suburb of Kuwait City, and probably 95% expat. The official government line is that they are trying to reduce the foreign population, however in my neighborhood, which I would estimate is 80% South Asian, 10% Philipino, 4% Ethiopian, 1% “Western”, I counted 21 high-rises being built within a 10 minute walk.

    What I don’t understand is what they are going to do with them if there are no cheap-labor expats, as the Indian’s/Paki’s/Sri-Lankan’s jobs seem to be…to build more buildings for a new generation of South-Asian expats.

    Again the neighborhood is literally 95% men, as they bring very few Indian women here, nor do they, generally speaking bring Philipino men, as they like to bring South Asian men to do the heavy lifting, and Philipinas to work indoors in customer service.

    Kuwaitis are somewhat closed, and they do not seem to mind too much, they are as arrogant as you can imagine, and one of their moves is to drive up to the local bodegas, honk impatiently, for the “boy” to come out and wait on them – this in a store with no drive-through window.

    The Indians seem to hate it pretty much, this is not Dubai, or even Bahrain, and liquor is illegal. Many of them become homosexuals as there are no women around, they lose their passports, and even though they make about triple what they would be making in the Indian diaspora, they seem resentful of the Kuwaitis who look on them with about triple the dislike that a Hollywood movie mogul’s wife looks upon her Salvadorian maid.

  80. @Anonymous
    Talking about that Kovalev boxing victory, has anyone else noticed that professional boxing and boxers hardly get the 'superstar' publicity and acclaim they used to get way back in the 1970s, and now are hardly mentioned and lionized.
    - Could it be something to do with the fact that American, specifically black American boxers no longer dominate the sport, in particular east Euros now dominate the heavier divisions, and thus the whole publicity machine has wound down?

    has anyone else noticed that professional boxing and boxers hardly get the ‘superstar’ publicity and acclaim they used to get way back in the 1970s, and now are hardly mentioned and lionized.
    – Could it be something to do with the fact that American, specifically black American boxers no longer dominate the sport, in particular east Euros now dominate the heavier divisions, and thus the whole publicity machine has wound down?

    Well no, it “could” be something to do with the fact that the 3 major sports are unified entriesrun by multi-billion dollar corporations, that have learned, over time, to market themselves, whereas the small-time independent criminals/cum “promoters” that run boxing simply cannot compete.

  81. @Trumped
    Off topic: Kovalev just destroyed and humiliated Bernard Hopkins to become the light heavy champ. Just a couple weeks ago, golovkin destroyed his opponent at middleweight. A lot of the nonsense myths about blacks being better athletes are being ended by the Soviet Bloc fighters being at least equally athletic and far more technically skilled. In fact, the black American fighters actively avoid Golovkin and Kovalev and want nothing to do with fighting them.

    Currently the best heavyweight, light heavy, and middleweight are all white - though Golovkin obviously is mixed with Asian, too. No one is more upset about this than the leftist sports media that is full of nerdy unathletic white guys who worship black athletes, which is why they will discuss the current white domination of boxing at middleweight and up about as much as they did Dave Brat winning bc of amnesty.

    The Great Black Hope will have to come from somewhere!

    Don’t forget Vladimir Klitchko.

    Granted what you say has merit, but what about the various exSoviet athletes dabbling in PEDS? The Soviet Union clearly sanctioned the use of steroids for its athletes back in the day: Winning at all costs took precedence. Who’s to say that PED usage isn’t continuing now?

    LeBron has as many rings as Nowitski, no?

  82. @Steve Sailer
    Or maybe related to this Weyl:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Weyl

    Is Glen Weyl related to Nathaniel Weyl…?

    The byline made me think, they don’t make Weyls like Nathaniel anymore! And “Posner” is suspiciously close to “Possony”.

    By the way, do we pronounce it “Gutter”, or “Catarrh”? I think “Kotter” sounds best in English.

  83. @Steve Sailer
    The huddled billions can all take the L.A. Subway to the Sea.

    Oh, wait ...

    And at the final stop, they can get out and go live in cramped trailer parks in Malibu.

  84. @Cliff Arroyo
    The open borders people want a stratified demi-slave labor economy with no real possibility for those at the bottom to rise (or their own less impressive offspring to fall).

    Pay no attention to what they say their reasoning is (madness therein lies) pay attention to what their policies actually produce in the real world which is basically Mexico writ large (though the slaveholder mentality of the gulf states seems to appeal a lot to them as well).

    They’re not so much concerned about income inequality here but globally. So if a Haitian comes here and can only muster landing a minimum wage job, they consider it a victory.

    Then once the Haitian becomes a citizen or has US born kids, they can rile them up about the unfairness of America.

  85. @reiner Tor
    What do you guys do when the NYT asks you to register after ten articles per month? My strategy is to think twice before thinking twice to read an article there. That way I rarely hit the limit before the 30th, although October was a 31-day month so I had to survive a full day without NYT articles. Fortunately for me Steve Sailer is doing all the NYT-reading for me, so there's little need for me doing it as well.

    Just open articles in an incognito window once you have reached your limit. It works every time!

  86. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    I went to the Oakland/Oracle Colosseum last night for a show.

    The place was about 95% full and they were all well behaved and there was no MJ smoking and no violence or overindulgence in alcohol. They didn’t even search us for weapons on the way in.

    The band played Smoke on the water and My Sharona among other things.

    What was the difference?

    The place was full of Cantonese speaking Chinese. While the band played some Mandarin songs it was mostly Cantonese and English and Smoke on the water was well played. My Sharona was largely in Cantonese.

    How racist of all those Chinese to be so well behaved. Oh yeah, it is amazing that there were enough Cantonese speaking people in Silicon Valley to almost fill the place and based on a restaurant we went to afterwards, there are more.

    Funniest thing of the night for me was in the subtitles I saw FING 吓 because Cantonese speakers don’t seem to have a character for the syllable that sounds like FING6.

  87. @Steve Sailer
    Is Glen Weyl related to Nathaniel Weyl, who died about 10 years ago at 95, who invented surname analysis (as recently revived by Gregory Clark)? Nathaniel Weyl wrote his first surname analysis book with Jerry Pournelle's mentor, Stefan Possony.

    Is Glen Weyl related to Nathaniel Weyl…?

    The first thing to come to mind reading this was, they don’t make Weyls like Nathaniel anymore!

    “Posner” itself sounds like a less exotic version of “Possony”. It’s not from the same place name, is it?

    By the way, do we pronounce it “Gutter” or “Catarrh”? I prefer “Kotter” myself.

  88. @Cloud of Probable Matricide
    Hermann Weyl was famous as an "intuitionist" vis-a-vis the ontological status of mathematical entities. Interestingly, 20th C math recapitulated the three positions of the argument over universals that the Medieval Schoolmen debated. One of those instances of intellectual history rhyming ...

    Oh yeah, and I used to play Little League against Congressman Gibson who curb-stomped Hughes' "husband."

    Hermann Weyl was an intuitionist only for a few years.

  89. @Whiskey
    The Gulf states maintain stability by: 1. spending a lot of money on a relatively small population to maintain ruling family support; 2. having giant pools of oil that can be sold off to foreign companies with little or no effort; 3. a repressive police state that brooks no opposition to the absolute monarchies that characterize the Gulf states, or any agitation for rights for the historic subjects of the regime, i.e. Gulf Arabs not migratory workers; 4. Absolute repression of the migratory workers who have no rights at all; and 5. Lots and lots and lots of foreign outside military repression to keep rulers in power -- think the Saudis coming to the aid of the Bahrainis or the US to kick Saddam out of Kuwait.

    That's not a model that can be copied outside of the essentials: Muslim hereditary rulers, lots of oil, small population that can be bribed and repressed.

    Look at the breakdown of Libya, of Syria, of Egypt, of Yemen, of Tunisia, and arguably in slow motion of Saudi Arabia. When a population becomes too big, or the oil runs out, or the regime can't or won't bribe and repress efficiently, the regime cracks apart. Without the Iranians and Russians Assad would have been as dead as Khadaffi by now. Egypt cycled through the Muslim Brothers and the Generals again. Tunisia seems set to follow that as does Libya. Egypt and Saudi Arabia have populations too big.

    America's population is FAR TOO BIG for the idiocy of the New Republic to even work. Even IF you accept the entire premise of the argument, the population of America's White, Black, and Hispanic citizens is too big -- 310 million and counting, for that to work.

    There are things I like about historic Britain, about Switzerland, about New Zealand, about Denmark. But those are small countries with relatively small populations and small land mass compared to a big continental nation with now 310 million people. What works for Switzerland won't work for us, based on scale and size alone.

    But yeah, the elite all move around a lot, inter-marry with other elites from other countries, races, and cultures, partake of a global hard-left culture, so they don't find the idea of no nations, borders, or boundaries weird. Like Lena Dunham writing about the "amusing" child molestation she allegedly inflicted on her younger sister in her memoir, then not understanding why readers find it icky and repellent. No doubt her family found it funny, as did her editors (a more damning indictment of publishing can not be found -- that no editor thought "this is icky, take it straight out to avoid disgusting and angering readers"). But the general public did not.

    I have heard a lot about how we need open borders to help the global poor and screw the natives of the Industrialized West in the Financial Times. It is that standard a belief in the West and among the Third World.

    But interestingly, China, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, Thailand, Singapore, and now Burma have all rejected it. Burma has told Muslims to "get out" essentially and leave as the new regime just won't tolerate them any more. Thailand seems inching towards the same conclusion. Neither Japan nor China nor South Korea is opening up to mass Third World immigration, and indeed have ultra-restrictive immigration and residency policies.

    If you wanted to pick a model for a LARGE, manufacturing based nation to follow, Japan, or South Korea, or China would seem to offer a fairly comprehensive set of policies: export manufacturing, domestic protectionism to offer a base to assault foreign markets, high import AND labor tariffs on imported labor, authoritarianism, massive cultural conservatism, restriction on sexual activities and exhibitionism, crackdowns on gays, lesbians, open promiscuity, lots of nuclear power, mono racial dominance, no criticizing EVER of the history and culture of the nation.

    Those policies are proven winners. TNR article argues effectively that if you want to succeed in show business, be born a child of a famous show business person, like say Brian Williams daughter on "Girls." Don't be like "the 20th Century's most unlikely cultural figure," a nobody body builder from Austria arriving speaking not a word of English who by sheer willpower, determination, and hard work made himself into an Action Hero in the 1980s.

    China, South Korea, and Japan are models in the way that the Gulf is not because they have big populations, no oil, and succeed by manufacturing.

    The Gulf states maintain stability by…….

    Excellent post. I could not have said it better. The only thing you omitted are ruinous free trade policies the US elites have forced upon us.
    Just see free trade as an open borders policy for economic “items”. The elites were not happy enough with this so now they try to foist open borders for people upon us just to get more consumers into America. The multiKultural promoting elites have their own reasons for open borders

  90. @anonymous
    "Yet we maintain our high standard of living by giving no rights and trivial money to people who live outside our arbitrary borders."

    I see. This has me thinking about just who "we" is and if the author of that sentence inspires within me a sense of "we-ness". Can't say he does. Sounds like he'd have trouble finding any reason to defend our "arbitrary" borders, much less defend me.

    Instead of moving the poorest people in the world here, a better solution would be to move rich people similar to the author outside our arbitrary borders. If they are so arbitrary, I'm sure he won't mind. And, after all, he wants good done to the world. So he must move to the poorest place he can find in the world. What could be more obvious?

    Instead of moving the poorest people in the world here, a better solution would be to move rich people similar to the author outside our arbitrary borders. If they are so arbitrary, I’m sure he won’t mind. And, after all, he wants good done to the world. So he must move to the poorest place he can find in the world. What could be more obvious?

    Or, just permanently quarantine the mega-wealthy in Dubai and add an asterisk next to the new, more equitable global inequality index. Since Dubai is already in many ways a world apart, the revised numbers would actually provide a more accurate reflection of the global reality. The assets of the mega-wealthy would be put in a “global equality trust” managed by a special UN committee appointed by the General Assembly and not subject to Security Council vetoes. Each mega-millionaire would be pensioned off with a five million dollar annnual allowance redeemable via orders from the Hammacher Schlemmer catalog and in tokens at Ferrari World Dubai. Yes, it would be a guilded cage, but if the system was properly designed, it would be a more humane solution for both the 1% and the remaining 99.

  91. @Cloud of Probable Matricide
    At least Hughes' "husband" got the cowboy sh$t knocked out of him by Col Chris Gibson back in my congressional district in New York

    Chris Hughes’s husband, Sean Eldridge, was a parody of the kind of candidate Democrats accuse Republicans of being.

    He was born into a rich family (both parents were doctors). He went to one of the lesser Ivy League schools. He majored in a soft subject (philosophy). Then he had the good fortune of marrying a man even richer than his parents. He was a carpetbagger with no meaningful real-world experience taking on a native of the district with 24 years in the US Army and three campaign medals on his chest. His aim, I guess, was to knock off a Republican incumbent. He hadn’t the wisdom to wait for a Democratic year nor to find a district more suitable for carpetbaggers.

    One of the funnier parts of his website is where the 28-year-old gay may with no children calls himself an “advocate for families”…because he was on the board of Planned Parenthood, as if working for Planned Parenthood isn’t the very exact opposite of advocating for families.

  92. OT: today is Remembrance Sunday. While reading the coverage I noticed the glaring lack of diversity of participants in the streets of London, the most diverse city in Britain.

    Here’s guessing Remembrance Sunday will begin to lose its luster in a few decades, when the newly elected people of Britain won’t bother to remember a bunch of DWEMs.

  93. This proposal, along with Weyl’s utterly bizarre proposal regarding “quadratic voting”, demonstrates why most people have always had an aversion to eggheads.

    You may be incredibly smart along standard academic dimensions, but if you think that either the immigration proposal or the quadratic voting scheme might trump basic principles built into our civilization, or don’t even recognize that such trumping is involved, then there’s a crucial kind of smarts you’re missing.

    It’s really as if these proposals were generated by idiot savants.

    I’d bet though that both these guys did great on IQ tests, the SAT, and the GRE.

    But where’s the test for the smarts they’re missing?

  94. “Talking about that Kovalev boxing victory, has anyone else noticed that professional boxing and boxers hardly get the ‘superstar’ publicity and acclaim they used to get way back in the 1970s, and now are hardly mentioned and lionized.
    – Could it be something to do with the fact that American, specifically black American boxers no longer dominate the sport, in particular east Euros now dominate the heavier divisions, and thus the whole publicity machine has wound down?”

    @ anon – bingo! The excuse cannot be used that they are boring, either. Golovkin and Kovalev both have 90 percent ko ratios and constantly attack. Amazingly, around half the media and over half of ringside “experts” predicted Hopkins to win last night. Do you know how many rounds Hopkins won on the scorecards of the judges and hbo? Zero!

    White domination of boxing at 160 lbs and up does not fit the narrative of the left wing media, so expect it to be downplayed as much as possible.

  95. @Bert
    The things about the Gulf kingdoms is that the natives make up a minority in most of the countries, but the royals buy them off with generous welfare benefits and cushy cradle-to-grace government jobs. All the while, as Steve said, importing more and more foreigners to do the actual work. These foreigners have no rights, cannot bring their families, and can be deported and sometimes even killed for whatever reason they so choose.

    That's one hell of an egalitarian society. Yup.

    I think you missed the whole point of the New Republic article, or else didn’t read the excerpts.

  96. Good grief! Elites truly hate ordinary people! So indentured work is the way of the future and Qatar a shining beacon of progress and global social justice. This is sheer sociopathy, plain and simple. It’s time to acknowledge the real war waged on the middle-class.

  97. @Steve Sailer
    Or maybe related to this Weyl:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Weyl

    The mathematician Hermann Weyl wasn’t of Jewish ancestry, though his wife was.

  98. @Jefferson
    Liberal people's solution to end income inequality in the U.S is to have amnesty and open borders so that every poor 3rd world person on the planet can immigrate here. That won't increase income inequality at all.

    His point is it will decrease global income inequality.

  99. @Trumped
    Off topic: Kovalev just destroyed and humiliated Bernard Hopkins to become the light heavy champ. Just a couple weeks ago, golovkin destroyed his opponent at middleweight. A lot of the nonsense myths about blacks being better athletes are being ended by the Soviet Bloc fighters being at least equally athletic and far more technically skilled. In fact, the black American fighters actively avoid Golovkin and Kovalev and want nothing to do with fighting them.

    Currently the best heavyweight, light heavy, and middleweight are all white - though Golovkin obviously is mixed with Asian, too. No one is more upset about this than the leftist sports media that is full of nerdy unathletic white guys who worship black athletes, which is why they will discuss the current white domination of boxing at middleweight and up about as much as they did Dave Brat winning bc of amnesty.

    The Great Black Hope will have to come from somewhere!

    “Off topic: Kovalev just destroyed and humiliated Bernard Hopkins to become the light heavy champ. Just a couple weeks ago, golovkin destroyed his opponent at middleweight. A lot of the nonsense myths about blacks being better athletes are being ended by the Soviet Bloc fighters being at least equally athletic and far more technically skilled.”

    Hopkins is in his 40s you imbecile.

  100. A few observations:

    This piece could reasonably been titled “Two Cheers For Exploitation.” What comes to mind is why in the world are the Gulf Emirates of all places discussed favorably in the context of immigration (or anything else for that matter)?

    The emirates are extractive economies. Would not an effort to arrive at praise for them begin with a comparison to other such places, Alaska, for example? What migrant workers rank them as their destination of first choice? Even the top of that food chain, highly skilled Western oil service workers only choose them because of the much higher pay after expenses. Even so, lifestyle accommodations must be made. Turning a blind eye to alcohol consumption, for example.

    And that is the BEST case that can be made for the emirates. It is all rather obviously downhill from there.

    The other apt comparison would be with regard to the treatment of migrant sex workers. Do the authors consider Thailand, for example, deserving of similar praise, and as a model we should learn from, because their sex industries have boosted the standard of living of poor rural Thai and foreign women?

    You should be open to the possibility that this is simply conditioning. Propaganda for states, Qatar in particular, that sorely need to keep the American intelligentsia not utterly ill-disposed toward them. This explains the parody-like quality. It would be interesting to know how many Qatari Riyals have made their way to the University of Chicago. Nor are the career and compensation prospects limited to Araby. These two highly respected academics are pleasing elites in the U.S., who know that their designs for Amnesty and another Immigration surge will fail if they do not feed the self-righteous needs of the Intelligentsia.

    The authors make a powerful argument against that which they are proposing. The Gulf emirates are a study in immigration control. The objectives, however elitist, matter not. This strongly argues that their objective is propagandistic — on behalf of these rich emirates.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    A government agency of Qatar called me up a few years ago to offer me some employment. I politely turned them down.
  101. anon • Disclaimer says:

    This article actually presents the other non-masochistic alternative for a globalized world with massive inequality. The rich countries can either keep democratic institution and keep out all the poor people who would in all probability use that democracy to enrich their sub-groups at the expense of the rich country’s current majority. Or they can let in those poor people but not give them democratic rights.

    Both alternatives at least seem connected to reality and not wishful thinking. But the actual basic publicly-voiced belief systems for the vast majority of Americans (almost everyone on the left and a good chunk of the right) is that if we just extend those magical American political rights to the world’s poor, either here or in their own countries, poverty will more or less disappear and people will politically cooperate for the good of ever broadening society and not just worry about their narrow groups. People in their hearts probably don’t believe this but that is basically the only acceptable thinking on the subject. So anything that exposes the ridiculousness of this magical line of thought that monopolizes public discussion on the global inequality subject is a positive, I think.

  102. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Why is the solution to all of the world’s supposedly “global” problems: mass immigration and assimilation to Anywhere that white people live and Only wherever white people live?

    Imagine if this was in tomorrow’s NYT:

    Japan’s immigration and national policies are racist. Tokyo is Too Japanese. It needs diversity and multiculturalism.
    Non-Japanese are poorer than Japanese, and that’s due to racism. Japanese are privileged.
    Japan must force integration for equality. We’ll measure diversity, disparate impact, access, barriers, inclusion, etc.
    Japan is wealthier than its neighbors. The solution to inequality is moving lots of very poor people into Japan.
    Japan isn’t really a Japanese country. It belonged to the Ainu first. Now it belongs to everyone.
    The Japanese race is a social construct.

    Any Japanese who oppose this are racist Japanese supremacists.
    Democracy for Japanese is bad if the end result is racist. Japanese are not allowed to vote on this.

    How should a clever Japanese person respond to that? Should he entertain the notion that any of these ideas have any legitimacy at all?

    Or should he relentlessly hammer the obvious:

    Why is the solution to these supposedly universal issues like racism, privilege, diversity, inequality, etc. always targeting Only Japanese?

    The end result of all these ideas is eliminating democracy for Japanese, race and culture replacement of only Japanese, and the reduction of births of Japanese children.

    What is really motivating the NYT?

    Maybe said Japanese person could spread these memes far and wide:

    Anti-(racism, supremacism, privilege, whatever) is code for anti-Japanese

    Mass immigration and assimilation into Anywhere that Japanese live and Only where Japanese live is code for Japanese (g).

    Interesting though experiment, no??

  103. “Global inequality?” “Arbitrary borders?” !! These two terms alone are enough to mark this screed as hogwash. Nonsense. We have a nation for a reason, to do with as we please within our own “arbitrary” borders.

    I don’t give a rat’s ass about “global” inequality, because that happens in places far different from my beloved country. My very own ancestors — mostly English people who had been here for a hundred years or more — did something about the dismal lack of liberty, the inequality, poverty, sickness, harsh living, ignorance, etc. that existed everywhere else when they founded the United States of America.

    Opening up our borders simply lets in the problem from outside. Feed stray cats and you will breed more stray cats. (I had a neighbor who did that, so I know it’s true.) Heal the wounds or your neighbor’s whipping boy, and you will simply encourage your filthy neighbor to whip more boys.

    Geezus I wish we had a long tradition of isolationism, instead of the entanglement in foreign bullshit President Washington warned us about. We have a whole, rich continent here, people. Why oh why do you feel we have to bother at all with the morons outside?

    • Replies: @Olorin
    Just one problem. The English did not found the US. Fenno-Scandians in the mid-Atlantic did.

    The English came half a century later.
  104. @Ezra
    The key failing of economics is that they see all people as atomistic and de-emphasize the importance of society. The key contribution of economists is that they can think through the logic of the marketplace. Economists have their uses, as long as you can keep in mind their key failing.

    The main insight of economics regarding immigration is that as long as you can scale up ALL other factors, admitting new immigrants doesnt affect market conditions for native. If the skills of immigrants are complimentary to natives there may be some market benefits.

    Economists have little to say about the non-market effects of immigrants. If you think the impact of immigration on social trust or crime or governance are important, then economics will have little to say about that. Fine, at least they are not sociologists.

    BUT

    We live in a country with a broken financial system. The market wont scale up capital investment and it definitely cannot scale up housing. We have a political system that wont allow the scaling up of infrastructure. In the major areas where immigration is important, we cant scale up land because major cities are in the desert and we are in the midst of a historic drought (plus Rob Reiner and friends). Scaling up education and human capital seems to have been at a standstill for 3 decades; you don't have to be a HBD person to acknowledge that. Economists who wont acknowledge all of those facts even as arguments that need to be tackled before we drastically expand immigration are essentially dishonest.

    Nobel prize winner James M. Buchanan recognized the non-market effects of immigration. His name is on a building at GMU.

  105. Consider these two guys as trolls on the world stage.

    Incidentally, the theoretically best way to reduced world inequality, according to standard textbook economics, is to practice free trade combined with tax policies to reward the losers out of the gains of the winners. In today’s global economy, composed of very rich and very poor countries, that would mean wage subsidies for workers in the rich countries financed by a tax on the consumption of the wealthy. There is a well-known way, theoretically, to accomplish the latter. It’s called a graduated expenditure tax. It used to be considered impractical because of the technical problems of implementation. But with computerized banking and the internet that is no longer the case. The only real obstacle now is political.

  106. @reiner Tor
    What do you guys do when the NYT asks you to register after ten articles per month? My strategy is to think twice before thinking twice to read an article there. That way I rarely hit the limit before the 30th, although October was a 31-day month so I had to survive a full day without NYT articles. Fortunately for me Steve Sailer is doing all the NYT-reading for me, so there's little need for me doing it as well.

    #55 –

    Reading New York Times articles

    In the US, if you find NY Times articles through a search engine and bring them up from there, they do not “count” in the 10 article a month limit.

    So I just copy out the article headline or throw a few words of the headline into Google and the article will almost always appear at the top of the list.

    I also use Google to access the full text of the locked Wall St Journal articles. I do not bring up all that many each month at home. The WSJ may do a count and stop at 10 or 20 articles in a month, I

  107. @ Dennis Dale – “I think there’s a contest. Social theorists all get together in secret once a year and give out awards for most insane arguments in various categories; immigration, race, global inequality.”

    Call them the Ignoble Prizes in economics.

  108. @Richard
    If you read Eric Posner's stuff, you'll notice he's got a well developed sense of irony. See his article on stop and frisk, for example.

    But the point is legitimate. If you're a utilitarian (not a nationalist or "citizenist") then migrant labor with no civil rights may be the best way to provide the greatest good for the greatest number.

    The greatest good for the greatest number would derive from liquidating Qatar’s royals, and distributing the wealth they have arrogated to raise living standards for the world’s poorest. They don’t bring anything to the table in terms of Utility.

    You could pretty much leave everything else unchanged. If you really wanted to do it right, the least corruptible technocrats, say Singaporeans, would be brought in to manage the state.

    Their argument is too cute by half. Utility is the last thing that could possibly justify their continued rule.

    • Replies: @Richard

    The greatest good for the greatest number would derive from liquidating Qatar’s royals, and distributing the wealth they have arrogated to raise living standards for the world’s poorest. They don’t bring anything to the table in terms of Utility.

    You could pretty much leave everything else unchanged. If you really wanted to do it right, the least corruptible technocrats, say Singaporeans, would be brought in to manage the state.

     

    Except that they'd have their heads chopped off in five minutes and the place would turn into a bloodbath. The oil would probably end up in the hands of some ISIS-like organization.
  109. beans but no beer

  110. Fortunately, saying things doesn’t make them happen. (Unless you are Kim Jong-un.)

  111. The idea that the First World could import and take care of billions of Third World people for by just “paying” each immigrant $5,000 a year is just crazy. The cost per immigrant to the taxpayer would be much higher.

    The people in the US with “incomes” that low usually receive thousands of extra dollars a year from friends, family, panhandling, illegal activities, etc. They also receive things like Medicaid and Food Stamps.

    Job creation in the First World is low and due to continuous destruction and elimination of millions of jobs due to technological advances, I do not see that changing for the foreseeable future.

    Therefore, most of what we would be “paying” these new immigrants to do would be job that only exist because they came. These job would not be real jobs, connected with the citizens and the economies of the host First World countries.

    Why didn’t the authors suggest that this $5,000 should be paid through a surtax on the top 10% or 5% or 1% in each country? That is who has been making real gains for the past 20 or 30 years.

    Instead they are quite happy to see people who can hardly pay their own bills take on the responsibility of rescuing billions of the world’s poorest.

  112. If the objective is to balance the interests of all the peoples of the world then rich countries opening their borders to immigration is a bad idea, because the inevitable effect will be to take the seed corn (the capable people) away from poor countries. The best people in Africa will all leave, and governance and economic development will further diverge causing more of the capable to leave and so spiral down, like Detroit. Leading development economist Paul Collier (who certainly understand the economics better than his opponents) is quite clear on that. And he doesn’t even accept that talent and ambition are hereditary.

    But of course the consequence is to rearrange western society so that white ethnic majorities in historically white majority countries cease to exist, and whites do not have a future except as facilitators of their own replacement and assimilation to by non whites. After 50 years it has become obvious that white majorities are always defenceless against being outflanked on the left. White intellectuals spend much of their time trying to gain status by out- lefting one another with no thought on how to achieve practical results. The intelligentsia of the West never worry about the practicalities because they are playing a status game. But that kind of lefter-than-thou outflanking through the wilder fringes of abstract universalism, usually positing nationality and religion as the supreme evil, ALWAYS works. The state functionaries and supposedly powerful political establishment are ALWAYS intimidated. So, an ‘pro-Open Borders reductio ad absurdum in the center-left New Republic’ is nothing amusing but rather the most alarming of portents, a harbinger of doom.

  113. […] weird religion of our current rulers has similarly strange outcomes. Steve Sailer points to a story in the old thyme lefty journal The New Republic extolling the glories of Qatar. People forget that […]

  114. @Polynices
    Hard to believe that's not some sort of Swiftian parody not meant to be taken seriously. They can't be that painfully stupid, can they?

    Hard to believe that’s not some sort of Swiftian parody not meant to be taken seriously. They can’t be that painfully stupid, can they?

    Yes plus they are hi-IQ too. It is their own internal war against the middle of common sense. They also lack boundaries which is a common liberal affliction

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

    Yes plus they are hi-IQ too. It is their own internal war against the middle of common sense. They also lack boundaries which is a common liberal affliction

     

    It's not a liberal affliction.

    No Clyde that's not it. They know exactly what they are doing.

    They are scheming for ways to destroy the world that us goyishe kops have created and fought for.

    As Peter Brimelow has been saying for decades. It is all about electing a new people. These clowns know post Enlightenment European and American democracies will never tolerate a helot class. The brown skin peoples from the left of the bell curve instead will be made citizens and nursed by the Cultural Marxist Media with a hatred of European peoples.

    Mr Posner and Weyl do not of course see themselves as part of the same race as the rest of us and they do not wish us well. They do see themselves a right hand men to the Masters of the Universe.

    Unless you are somebody who had your first sexual experience while reading Ayn Rand, please stop with the willfully naive posturing.
  115. @Anonymous
    One thing that you will never, ever see in one if these Gulf Arab states, is a foreigner, any foreigner doing a non-menial' non manual labor type job, if, an unemployed Gulf Arab, any Gulf Arab is equally qualified and willing to do the job.
    Unabashedly, the Gulf Arab will be favored by his own government.
    This is a state of affairs that simply doesn't exist in the UK, for example. There, the indigenous native is often disqualified in favor of 'favored' categories of foreigner, most particularly government employment will do this.

    When P.J. O’Rourke spent some time in the Persian Gulf covering the run up to the 1991 Gulf War he and the other reporters had a pool for the first one to see an Arab native pick up anything heavier than money.

  116. Interesting way to approach the problem, I’ll say. Instead of reducing inequality by taking from the world’s oligarchs, just spread the wealth of the poor a little more evenly among them.

    Is it evil to wish ill for such people?

  117. @anonymous-antimarxist
    Nope!! But a good guess

    Nathaniel Weyl did not have a son named Stephen. And Nathaniel was the only son of TNR founder Walter Weyl.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathaniel_Weyl
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Weyl

    Could still be an offshoot of the clan.

    There’s just enough time to be a great-grandson (25 year generations), but there are various Weyls in the world.

  118. @Clyde

    Hard to believe that’s not some sort of Swiftian parody not meant to be taken seriously. They can’t be that painfully stupid, can they?
     
    Yes plus they are hi-IQ too. It is their own internal war against the middle of common sense. They also lack boundaries which is a common liberal affliction

    Yes plus they are hi-IQ too. It is their own internal war against the middle of common sense. They also lack boundaries which is a common liberal affliction

    It’s not a liberal affliction.

    No Clyde that’s not it. They know exactly what they are doing.

    They are scheming for ways to destroy the world that us goyishe kops have created and fought for.

    As Peter Brimelow has been saying for decades. It is all about electing a new people. These clowns know post Enlightenment European and American democracies will never tolerate a helot class. The brown skin peoples from the left of the bell curve instead will be made citizens and nursed by the Cultural Marxist Media with a hatred of European peoples.

    Mr Posner and Weyl do not of course see themselves as part of the same race as the rest of us and they do not wish us well. They do see themselves a right hand men to the Masters of the Universe.

    Unless you are somebody who had your first sexual experience while reading Ayn Rand, please stop with the willfully naive posturing.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    MMM, you seem to have a serious case of Mustapha Mond-O'Brien syndrome ("The Inner Party members don't really believe the ideology that they spoon feed to everyone else; they know that it's all cover for the endless boot in the face"). Sadly, our masters are mostly hypocritical creatures; they tend to actually believe what they say.
  119. @reiner Tor
    What do you guys do when the NYT asks you to register after ten articles per month? My strategy is to think twice before thinking twice to read an article there. That way I rarely hit the limit before the 30th, although October was a 31-day month so I had to survive a full day without NYT articles. Fortunately for me Steve Sailer is doing all the NYT-reading for me, so there's little need for me doing it as well.

    Yes, Steve reads them so we don’t have to. But if you really want to read an 11th article from NYT or National Post or The Independent, you can:

    1. Delete your cookies. You actually only need to delete the cookies of the site you want to read. Or,

    2. Delete all history and temporary whatever with a program like Piriform Ccleaner. Or,

    3. Using Firefox or a related browser like Pale Moon, use Open in Private Tab to read the story.

    • Replies: @Stealth
    I don't know if you still can, but about a year ago, if you were fast enough, you could copy the article and paste into Word. It worked for a lot of online papers.
  120. @MLK
    A few observations:

    This piece could reasonably been titled "Two Cheers For Exploitation." What comes to mind is why in the world are the Gulf Emirates of all places discussed favorably in the context of immigration (or anything else for that matter)?

    The emirates are extractive economies. Would not an effort to arrive at praise for them begin with a comparison to other such places, Alaska, for example? What migrant workers rank them as their destination of first choice? Even the top of that food chain, highly skilled Western oil service workers only choose them because of the much higher pay after expenses. Even so, lifestyle accommodations must be made. Turning a blind eye to alcohol consumption, for example.

    And that is the BEST case that can be made for the emirates. It is all rather obviously downhill from there.

    The other apt comparison would be with regard to the treatment of migrant sex workers. Do the authors consider Thailand, for example, deserving of similar praise, and as a model we should learn from, because their sex industries have boosted the standard of living of poor rural Thai and foreign women?

    You should be open to the possibility that this is simply conditioning. Propaganda for states, Qatar in particular, that sorely need to keep the American intelligentsia not utterly ill-disposed toward them. This explains the parody-like quality. It would be interesting to know how many Qatari Riyals have made their way to the University of Chicago. Nor are the career and compensation prospects limited to Araby. These two highly respected academics are pleasing elites in the U.S., who know that their designs for Amnesty and another Immigration surge will fail if they do not feed the self-righteous needs of the Intelligentsia.

    The authors make a powerful argument against that which they are proposing. The Gulf emirates are a study in immigration control. The objectives, however elitist, matter not. This strongly argues that their objective is propagandistic -- on behalf of these rich emirates.

    A government agency of Qatar called me up a few years ago to offer me some employment. I politely turned them down.

    • Replies: @MLK
    Good for you, but no wonder you have to panhandle so frequently! You turn the Arabs down when they come knocking, and I suspect you're not going to get any offers to spin for Israelis/Jews anytime soon.
  121. There are so many things wrong with this immigration senility. It’s getting worse & worse, we’re now finally coming into a world phase with fewer & fewer wars, and, yes, some people start agitating about “arbitrary borders”. You can redefine anything, making anything arbitrary.

    1) The existence of global inequality does not mean the West doesn’t deserve what it has. The question isn’t: why is the global south poor? The question is: why are Western Europe, North America & Japan rich? The global south is poor because it has over a billion of people who can’t seem to function very well in literate, technologically demanding market economies. You could argue that we’ve been privileged by genetic luck. Well, OK, that’s fair game I guess. Then argue that. Don’t tell me we should let in unassimilable, well-meaning, unemployable people from the Third World, because while we might be rich, nobody will feel like living “at home” anymore.

    2) We can’t allow mass migration, because the consequences of migration will effect our society in profound ways. We can’t just use up our culture in one generation, because it might make sense to you at that moment, without carefully taking into consideration the well-being of our descendants.

    3) We’ve been through decades of mass migration. It has been a huge stinker. All benefits go to the migrants and Western elites; all costs go to the middle & lower classes. We’ve seen it, we’ve experienced it, we don’t want it.

  122. “Granted what you say has merit, but what about the various exSoviet athletes dabbling in PEDS? The Soviet Union clearly sanctioned the use of steroids for its athletes back in the day: Winning at all costs took precedence. Who’s to say that PED usage isn’t continuing now?”

    Like with most things sports related, the Soviets were just ahead of the times compared to Americans. The amount of top level fighters not on HGH or some form of steroid in the last decade or two is very small. Holyfield, Tyson, Pacquio, JMM, toney, RJJ, and on and on were obviously on steroids at various points in their careers. It is also probably where Morrison contracted AIDS.

    Chanpions RJJ and Toney both tested positive for steroids in state sanctioned testing – which never seems to be discussed for some reason. Boxing is about as clean as the sport of cycling.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Boxings way cleaner, as everyone knows. You judiciously avoided Vladimir Klitchko and PEDS and can well understand why that is so.

    In the PED sense, let's face it: most sports are dirty. When the world's leading badminton champion just got busted for PEDS it does tend to make you rethink the entire "Will do anything to win" mentality. Badminton? Seriously?

    If not mistaken, didn't NFL great Jim Brown do that sport at Syracuse in between football, track, and some basketball?

    Badminton, no less. So you can well forget about the women's sports cause they're dirty as well.

  123. So how many Bangladeshis is Israel going to accept in this little scheme?

    Maybe the reason that diaspora Jews are not natural conservatives is that in their minds, there’s no point in conserving anything. If you were told that throughout your people’s history, they had been kicked out of dozens of countries for absolutely no reason and that it was only a matter of time until the Irish family next-door showed up with pitchforks and torches, it wouldn’t really encourage you to take a long-term interest in your host country’s well-being. Might as well extract what you can when times are good, liquidate as much as possible when the pogroms start and hopefully you land on your feet in the next stop on the never-ending galut world tour.

    On its own, the above mindset isn’t that harmful to gentiles. Its only when the people who think like that become the ruling caste when we’re really in trouble.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

    On its own, the above mindset isn’t that harmful to gentiles. Its only when the people who think like that become the ruling caste when we’re really in trouble.

     

    and your point is?????
  124. @Cloud of Probable Matricide
    Hermann Weyl was famous as an "intuitionist" vis-a-vis the ontological status of mathematical entities. Interestingly, 20th C math recapitulated the three positions of the argument over universals that the Medieval Schoolmen debated. One of those instances of intellectual history rhyming ...

    Oh yeah, and I used to play Little League against Congressman Gibson who curb-stomped Hughes' "husband."

    Happy about that too. I think hubby ran somewhere else as a carpetbagger as well and lost. Unfortunately he has quite a few millions more to run through before he loses his last election.

    PS I note that in Ulster county the vote was closer than in Dutchess.

  125. Professor Posner is not entirely a bleeding heart. He had this to say about whether a nation that had formerly occupied another had any obligation to the formerly occupied one.

    There is no legal authority for the principle that a belligerent that has withdrawn from a country has any obligations toward it that arise from the former occupation.

    But isn’t a lot of the motivation behind letting the third world into Europe, North America and Australia based upon the notion that we Europeans colonized the world and so we owe it to their descendants to let them come into our lands to share the wealth? I don’t know if Posner has ever made that specific argument, but I know that argument is out there.

    So why would Posner be such a bleeding heart when it comes to one issue, but seemingly cold-blooded on this?

    • Replies: @Richard
    Actually, in TNR a few years back, I remember Posner writing that America has no obligation to the third world or even preventing illegal border crossers from dying in the desert.


    ne might thus argue that the overwhelming majority of migrants from Mexico are rational economic actors who are taking a calculated risk, like a person who joins the army in order to obtain skills but then find himself in a war zone, or someone who mortgages his home in order to finance a start-up but then finds himself on the street when his business fails. We can possibly do more to inform potential migrants of the dangers of crossing the desert, but if they prefer to take these risks, it is not our responsibility to move heaven and earth to rescue them.

    The pro-migrant groups blame American policy for the hardships of people who cross the desert, and argue that government must do more to protect them. But it is hard to think of solutions. Opening the doors to Mexico is not only politically infeasible; it would also be unfair to people who live in other countries and would like to migrate to the United States, many of them far more desperate than those who live in Mexico. The border patrol could set up emergency aid stations across the desert, but such a project would be enormously expensive and further encourage illegal migration by removing the major deterrents to illegal entry, which are the hazards of the desert.
     
    http://www.newrepublic.com/book/review/showdown-sonoran-desert-religion-law-immigration-ananda-rose
  126. @MLK
    The greatest good for the greatest number would derive from liquidating Qatar's royals, and distributing the wealth they have arrogated to raise living standards for the world's poorest. They don't bring anything to the table in terms of Utility.

    You could pretty much leave everything else unchanged. If you really wanted to do it right, the least corruptible technocrats, say Singaporeans, would be brought in to manage the state.

    Their argument is too cute by half. Utility is the last thing that could possibly justify their continued rule.

    The greatest good for the greatest number would derive from liquidating Qatar’s royals, and distributing the wealth they have arrogated to raise living standards for the world’s poorest. They don’t bring anything to the table in terms of Utility.

    You could pretty much leave everything else unchanged. If you really wanted to do it right, the least corruptible technocrats, say Singaporeans, would be brought in to manage the state.

    Except that they’d have their heads chopped off in five minutes and the place would turn into a bloodbath. The oil would probably end up in the hands of some ISIS-like organization.

  127. @Jason Roberts
    "If the OECD countries copied the migration policies of the GCC countries, they would reduce global inequality by much more than their welfare systems do within their borders."

    That would include the policies that Anonymous @ 36 helpfully point out.

    They're also embarrassingly arguing that building sports stadiums is economic growth.

    “They’re also embarrassingly arguing that building sports stadiums is economic growth.”

    I’m reminded of an Onion headline:

    “Study finds that 88% of soccer stadiums used for mass executions of dissidents”

    • Replies: @Sean
    Western donors who had built a football ground for the Afghans when ruled by the Taliban were outraged when they hanged people from the goalposts. The Taliban retorted ' if you build us gallows we will use them!'
  128. @Buzz Mohawk
    "Global inequality?" "Arbitrary borders?" !! These two terms alone are enough to mark this screed as hogwash. Nonsense. We have a nation for a reason, to do with as we please within our own "arbitrary" borders.

    I don't give a rat's ass about "global" inequality, because that happens in places far different from my beloved country. My very own ancestors -- mostly English people who had been here for a hundred years or more -- did something about the dismal lack of liberty, the inequality, poverty, sickness, harsh living, ignorance, etc. that existed everywhere else when they founded the United States of America.

    Opening up our borders simply lets in the problem from outside. Feed stray cats and you will breed more stray cats. (I had a neighbor who did that, so I know it's true.) Heal the wounds or your neighbor's whipping boy, and you will simply encourage your filthy neighbor to whip more boys.

    Geezus I wish we had a long tradition of isolationism, instead of the entanglement in foreign bullshit President Washington warned us about. We have a whole, rich continent here, people. Why oh why do you feel we have to bother at all with the morons outside?

    Just one problem. The English did not found the US. Fenno-Scandians in the mid-Atlantic did.

    The English came half a century later.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Just one problem. The English did not found the US. Fenno-Scandians in the mid-Atlantic did.
     
    MMM, that would come as something of a surprise to Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, John Adams, James Madison, .........
    , @Reg Cæsar

    The English did not found the US. Fenno-Scandians in the mid-Atlantic did.

    The English came half a century later.
     
    By the time Uusi Ruotsi was founded in 1638, the English had established Virginia, Plymouth, Massachusetts Bay, New Hampshire, Maryland, Connecticut, and Rhode Island, and the Dutch were well-established nearby in New Netherland.

    The Swedes were outnumbered in New Sweden, and lost it to the Dutch. The Dutch were outnumbered in New Netherland, and lost it to the English. There's a lesson in this somewhere.
    , @yaqub the mad scientist
    Just one problem. The English did not found the US. Fenno-Scandians in the mid-Atlantic did.

    That's funny. I wish you could tell that to my ancestors who came to Virginia in 1630.

    , @Buzz Mohawk
    Oh My Dear Ms. Falkenberg: What we have here is a failure to communicate.

    One line in my family goes quaintly back to English people, from south of London, who became early residents of the old, square city of New Haven, Connecticut in the 1600's . A hundred or so years later, some of that line fought in the American Revolution, which was also led by English Americans.

    You may be surprised to learn that I do know that others from Europe got here early. By golly, I even know that New York used to be called New Amsterdam. I have a little Dutch in me, so how could I overlook that? Like most ordinary, pale Americans, I am a mix of Northwestern European, including even a little bit of your "Fenno-Scandian" (courtesy of Norway.)

    When I refer to who "founded" the United States of America, I am of course referring to the people who fought for the nation by that name and wrote its Constitution. I don't know what else you could possibly mean by "founded." Perhaps the word you are searching for is "settled."

    In any case, I know there were some "Fenno-Scandian" patriots too, descended from those early settlers to which you refer.

    I knew I never should have commented at all. The article is a piece of garbage not to be taken seriously.

    , @Buzz Mohawk
    Oh My Dear Ms. Falkenberg: What we have here is a failure to communicate. Let me try to explain my point...

    One line in my family goes quaintly back to English people, from south of London, who became early residents of the old, square city of New Haven, Connecticut in the 1600′s . A hundred or so years later, some of that line fought in the American Revolution, which was also led by English Americans with names like Hancock, Washington, Franklin, Adams, etc.

    You may be surprised to learn that I do know that others from Europe also got here early. By golly, I even know that New York used to be called New Amsterdam. I have a little Dutch in me, so how could I overlook that? Like most ordinary, pale Americans, I am a mix of Northwestern European, including even a little bit of your “Fenno-Scandian” (courtesy of Norway.)

    When I refer to who “founded” the United States of America, I am of course referring to the people who fought for the nation by that name and wrote its Constitution. I don’t know what else you could possibly mean by “founded.” Perhaps the word you are searching for is “settled.”

    In any case, I'm sure there must have been some Fenno-Scandian patriot soldiers too, descended from those early settlers to which you refer.

    I knew I never should have commented at all. The article is a piece of intellectual masturbation not to be taken seriously.
  129. Feed stray cats and you will breed more stray cats.

    Love stray cats, I not only feed them, I put out boxes with heating pads in the winter time.

    I just make sure to trap them, take them to the vet, spay and neuter them, then release em.

    But hell I’m one baby moma for the underclass, then Norplant and someday Vasalgel them kinda of guy.

  130. Someone asked me about regression to the mean in a prior thread.

    Eric Posner is a nice example. His father manages to be the most influential public intellectual and the most influential judge of his generation. (One study, co-authored by Posner naturely, found that Posner’s opinions are by far the most cited by other judges. He also keeps up his one book a year schedule deep into his 70’s. He also writes more opinions than any other appeals court judge, again by a wide margin.)

    The son, by contrast, is just another interchangeable, slate-pitchy magazine writer and unremarkable law professor. Not a particularly good one either.

  131. @LKM
    So how many Bangladeshis is Israel going to accept in this little scheme?

    Maybe the reason that diaspora Jews are not natural conservatives is that in their minds, there's no point in conserving anything. If you were told that throughout your people's history, they had been kicked out of dozens of countries for absolutely no reason and that it was only a matter of time until the Irish family next-door showed up with pitchforks and torches, it wouldn't really encourage you to take a long-term interest in your host country's well-being. Might as well extract what you can when times are good, liquidate as much as possible when the pogroms start and hopefully you land on your feet in the next stop on the never-ending galut world tour.

    On its own, the above mindset isn't that harmful to gentiles. Its only when the people who think like that become the ruling caste when we're really in trouble.

    On its own, the above mindset isn’t that harmful to gentiles. Its only when the people who think like that become the ruling caste when we’re really in trouble.

    and your point is?????

    • Replies: @MLK
    I think LKM would like us to know that he's got a bee in his bonnet about the Jews.
  132. Whatever happened to the idea of reducing poverty by reducing the population of poor people through birth control etc? Rather than give $5,000 to every poor person in the third world, how about giving the $5,000 only to young women after being sterilized?

    The problem with poor stupid people is that the more money and resources you give them, the more people they make, so they are always poor.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Similar thinking motivates the open borders elites. Much of their domestic population does work that can be done by poor stupid people from the third world. So paying domestic populations more for work that can be done by poor stupid people from the third world is a waste of money and resources.
  133. @Steve Sailer
    A government agency of Qatar called me up a few years ago to offer me some employment. I politely turned them down.

    Good for you, but no wonder you have to panhandle so frequently! You turn the Arabs down when they come knocking, and I suspect you’re not going to get any offers to spin for Israelis/Jews anytime soon.

  134. @Olorin
    Just one problem. The English did not found the US. Fenno-Scandians in the mid-Atlantic did.

    The English came half a century later.

    Just one problem. The English did not found the US. Fenno-Scandians in the mid-Atlantic did.

    MMM, that would come as something of a surprise to Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, John Adams, James Madison, ………

  135. @iSteveFan
    Professor Posner is not entirely a bleeding heart. He had this to say about whether a nation that had formerly occupied another had any obligation to the formerly occupied one.

    There is no legal authority for the principle that a belligerent that has withdrawn from a country has any obligations toward it that arise from the former occupation.

    But isn't a lot of the motivation behind letting the third world into Europe, North America and Australia based upon the notion that we Europeans colonized the world and so we owe it to their descendants to let them come into our lands to share the wealth? I don't know if Posner has ever made that specific argument, but I know that argument is out there.

    So why would Posner be such a bleeding heart when it comes to one issue, but seemingly cold-blooded on this?

    Actually, in TNR a few years back, I remember Posner writing that America has no obligation to the third world or even preventing illegal border crossers from dying in the desert.

    ne might thus argue that the overwhelming majority of migrants from Mexico are rational economic actors who are taking a calculated risk, like a person who joins the army in order to obtain skills but then find himself in a war zone, or someone who mortgages his home in order to finance a start-up but then finds himself on the street when his business fails. We can possibly do more to inform potential migrants of the dangers of crossing the desert, but if they prefer to take these risks, it is not our responsibility to move heaven and earth to rescue them.

    The pro-migrant groups blame American policy for the hardships of people who cross the desert, and argue that government must do more to protect them. But it is hard to think of solutions. Opening the doors to Mexico is not only politically infeasible; it would also be unfair to people who live in other countries and would like to migrate to the United States, many of them far more desperate than those who live in Mexico. The border patrol could set up emergency aid stations across the desert, but such a project would be enormously expensive and further encourage illegal migration by removing the major deterrents to illegal entry, which are the hazards of the desert.

    http://www.newrepublic.com/book/review/showdown-sonoran-desert-religion-law-immigration-ananda-rose

  136. @anonymous-antimarxist

    Yes plus they are hi-IQ too. It is their own internal war against the middle of common sense. They also lack boundaries which is a common liberal affliction

     

    It's not a liberal affliction.

    No Clyde that's not it. They know exactly what they are doing.

    They are scheming for ways to destroy the world that us goyishe kops have created and fought for.

    As Peter Brimelow has been saying for decades. It is all about electing a new people. These clowns know post Enlightenment European and American democracies will never tolerate a helot class. The brown skin peoples from the left of the bell curve instead will be made citizens and nursed by the Cultural Marxist Media with a hatred of European peoples.

    Mr Posner and Weyl do not of course see themselves as part of the same race as the rest of us and they do not wish us well. They do see themselves a right hand men to the Masters of the Universe.

    Unless you are somebody who had your first sexual experience while reading Ayn Rand, please stop with the willfully naive posturing.

    MMM, you seem to have a serious case of Mustapha Mond-O’Brien syndrome (“The Inner Party members don’t really believe the ideology that they spoon feed to everyone else; they know that it’s all cover for the endless boot in the face”). Sadly, our masters are mostly hypocritical creatures; they tend to actually believe what they say.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    Do I believe that Posner and Weyl really believe their BS?

    No I do not.

    I know Howard Zinn did not believe his BS either. In fact to anyone who would really listen, Zinn would tell you he knew he was lying through his teeth. He had absolute contempt for his goyim admirers. Yet, even the TNR in a biography review stated that even for many Jews who knew he was a fraud, Zinn was a Jewish icon, a true cultural warrior unafraid to stick to the Goyim by brainwashing their children into states of debilitating ethnomasochism.

    Pretty much the same for Saul Alinsky.

    Are there uber-rich cheap labor seeking capitalist dim-wits who get erections reading Mr Posner and Weyl or Tyler Cowen's swill? Hell Yes!!!

    Veritas is a Hellenistic/Christian concept.
  137. Unfortunately he has quite a few millions more to run through before he loses his last election.

    More like 1.2 billion. Wikipedia says 850 million in Nov 2013, but FB stock has gone up 50% since then.

    Here in San Diego we also had a gay candidate lose. Carl DeMaio, who was orphaned at 14 then raised in a Catholic orphanage, narrowly lost to Scott Peters, a private equity multimillionaire serving his first term as a Democrat in a narrowly Democratic district. DeMaio, despite being a youngish orphan running against a filthy rich incumbent, still had plenty of campaign money due to his complete obedience to our local wealthy developers, as well out outside gay republican money.

    San Diego mayor is another good example of minority candidate underperformance. In 2012, Filner v DeMaio, the Dems nominated a white guy who won by five points.

    When Filner resigned due to his groping habit, including quite a few elderly women,* they nominated a hispanic guy, who then lost by 6 points. In other words, the hispanic democrat underperformed the white democrat by 11 points in the space of a year for the same office.

    *In Filner’s defense, La Jolla and Del Mar, which are still part of the city of San Diego, have the best preserved formerly hot old women in the world. Walking around downtown LJ something like half the old women have had obvious plastic surgery, and I’m sure many of the rest did as well and you just can’t tell. They are also all thin and expensively dressed.

    Anyone into cougars (not me BTW) ought to head there and find himself a gay divorcee who got the beach house in the divorce. (It helps that California is a community property state, meaning without a prenup women do really well in divorce after a long marriage.) You’ll find them spending $120 a pop at Lulumemon on yoga pants during the day, or perhaps at one of the multiple places that sells $6 cupcakes, and sitting at the bar of nice restaurants in the evening. But not too late in the evening since, after all, they’re old.

    La Jolla is also great if you’re into Chinese-American college girls who wear glasses, flip-flops, and sweatpants. And really who isn’t? You’ll find them in groups at elaborate frozen yogurt buffets, and also snuggled up with their laptops on a couch in a coffeeshop or the engineering library at UCSD.

  138. @anonymous-antimarxist

    Therefore, if Americans chose to live with the paupers in their midst and just more or less ignore them, or if on the other hand pauperdom in their midst annoys Americans enough to induce Americans to try and mitigate it, is a policy decision that is entirely down to American voters.
     
    Two solutions for lowering future pauperdom in the USA that you are sure to never hear about from TNR or Marginal Revolutions. EUGENICS - very scary!!!

    Norplant and Vasalgel

    www.parsemusfoundation.org/vasalgel-faqs/

    I would love to see Steve write a piece on the potential revolutionary impact of Vasalgel on the wealth destroying criminal male underclass.

    Hopefully this last election shows that large numbers of the Republican base are finally getting their heads out their behinds over ridiculous Moral Majority attitudes towards birth control.

    …ridiculous Moral Majority attitudes towards birth control.

    Sounds like you’re advocating compulsory birth control. If you believe opposition to that is limited to the “Moral Majority”, then they’re not the only ones suffering from cranium-in-the-colon.

    Back when white folks were truly patriotic and racially aware, they were also horrified by birth control, never mind abortion.

    The big Supreme Court case freeing up contraception came out of Connecticut.

    Connecticut!

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Didn't Robert Bork have a hand in that case? Or did he just teach the case at Yale law school? Still don't understand how his nomination failed for US Supreme Court but David Soutter made it thru. Wonder if the Archibald Cox firing played more of a role vs Bork than people realize? Old party veterans in Congress tend to have long memories.
  139. @Trumped
    Off topic: Kovalev just destroyed and humiliated Bernard Hopkins to become the light heavy champ. Just a couple weeks ago, golovkin destroyed his opponent at middleweight. A lot of the nonsense myths about blacks being better athletes are being ended by the Soviet Bloc fighters being at least equally athletic and far more technically skilled. In fact, the black American fighters actively avoid Golovkin and Kovalev and want nothing to do with fighting them.

    Currently the best heavyweight, light heavy, and middleweight are all white - though Golovkin obviously is mixed with Asian, too. No one is more upset about this than the leftist sports media that is full of nerdy unathletic white guys who worship black athletes, which is why they will discuss the current white domination of boxing at middleweight and up about as much as they did Dave Brat winning bc of amnesty.

    The Great Black Hope will have to come from somewhere!

    Golovkin is from Kazakhstan and is half-Korean. Stalin transferred a bunch of Koreans out of the Far East into Central Asia as a part of his population transfer policies.

    • Replies: @Bliss

    Stalin transferred a bunch of Koreans out of the Far East into Central Asia as a part of his population transfer policies.
     
    Very interesting info. That may partially explain why there are so many uber-mongoloids in Kazakhstan.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_Koreans_in_the_Soviet_Union
  140. @Trumped
    "Granted what you say has merit, but what about the various exSoviet athletes dabbling in PEDS? The Soviet Union clearly sanctioned the use of steroids for its athletes back in the day: Winning at all costs took precedence. Who’s to say that PED usage isn’t continuing now?"

    Like with most things sports related, the Soviets were just ahead of the times compared to Americans. The amount of top level fighters not on HGH or some form of steroid in the last decade or two is very small. Holyfield, Tyson, Pacquio, JMM, toney, RJJ, and on and on were obviously on steroids at various points in their careers. It is also probably where Morrison contracted AIDS.

    Chanpions RJJ and Toney both tested positive for steroids in state sanctioned testing - which never seems to be discussed for some reason. Boxing is about as clean as the sport of cycling.

    Boxings way cleaner, as everyone knows. You judiciously avoided Vladimir Klitchko and PEDS and can well understand why that is so.

    In the PED sense, let’s face it: most sports are dirty. When the world’s leading badminton champion just got busted for PEDS it does tend to make you rethink the entire “Will do anything to win” mentality. Badminton? Seriously?

    If not mistaken, didn’t NFL great Jim Brown do that sport at Syracuse in between football, track, and some basketball?

    Badminton, no less. So you can well forget about the women’s sports cause they’re dirty as well.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    There's a new documentary out on Dock Ellis, the black pitcher from the 70s who pitched a no-hitter while high on LSD. He also frequently used amphetamines. Apparently amphetamine use before games was common in MLB before the steroid era. I don't know if amphetamine use has continued though.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/05/no-no-a-documentary-on-mlb-pitcher-dock-ellis-who-pitched-a-no-hitter-while-tripping-on-acid.html
  141. It’s stunning that a supposed star of the economics profession would make such a newby error as to think that if the market-clearing wage for unskilled labor is some $10/hr now, when the US has maybe 20 million workers on the supply side of that market, it’ll hold at about the same level if the supply goes to 100 or 500 million.

    Optimistically, Posner and Weyl are engaging in some sort of effort to revive the “wise men of Chelm” genre.

  142. @Reg Cæsar

    …ridiculous Moral Majority attitudes towards birth control.
     
    Sounds like you're advocating compulsory birth control. If you believe opposition to that is limited to the "Moral Majority", then they're not the only ones suffering from cranium-in-the-colon.

    Back when white folks were truly patriotic and racially aware, they were also horrified by birth control, never mind abortion.

    The big Supreme Court case freeing up contraception came out of Connecticut.

    Connecticut!

    Didn’t Robert Bork have a hand in that case? Or did he just teach the case at Yale law school? Still don’t understand how his nomination failed for US Supreme Court but David Soutter made it thru. Wonder if the Archibald Cox firing played more of a role vs Bork than people realize? Old party veterans in Congress tend to have long memories.

  143. I wonder if Eric Posner would be so supportive of making Israel like Qatar.

  144. @Olorin
    Just one problem. The English did not found the US. Fenno-Scandians in the mid-Atlantic did.

    The English came half a century later.

    The English did not found the US. Fenno-Scandians in the mid-Atlantic did.

    The English came half a century later.

    By the time Uusi Ruotsi was founded in 1638, the English had established Virginia, Plymouth, Massachusetts Bay, New Hampshire, Maryland, Connecticut, and Rhode Island, and the Dutch were well-established nearby in New Netherland.

    The Swedes were outnumbered in New Sweden, and lost it to the Dutch. The Dutch were outnumbered in New Netherland, and lost it to the English. There’s a lesson in this somewhere.

    • Replies: @gu
    He's referring to that Viking dude (Leif Erikson?) that first set foot on the New World almost half a century before Columbus.
  145. @anonymous-antimarxist

    On its own, the above mindset isn’t that harmful to gentiles. Its only when the people who think like that become the ruling caste when we’re really in trouble.

     

    and your point is?????

    I think LKM would like us to know that he’s got a bee in his bonnet about the Jews.

  146. Hey, Steve, any plans to post a review of INTERSTELLAR? I just saw it.Surprisingly clunky script (it made The Dark Knight Rises look like good in comparison) but the visuals were quite stunning. Plus, there were lots of points that seem ripe for your brand of analysis: prominent screen time given to Smart Blacks, zero East Asians in speaking parts, the valorization of Anglo norms, a pro-natalist bias, etc

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Plus, there were lots of points that seem ripe for your brand of analysis: prominent screen time given to Smart Blacks, zero East Asians in speaking parts, the valorization of Anglo norms, a pro-natalist bias, etc
     
    Right. It was like a Spielberg movie.
  147. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jo s'more
    Whatever happened to the idea of reducing poverty by reducing the population of poor people through birth control etc? Rather than give $5,000 to every poor person in the third world, how about giving the $5,000 only to young women after being sterilized?

    The problem with poor stupid people is that the more money and resources you give them, the more people they make, so they are always poor.

    Similar thinking motivates the open borders elites. Much of their domestic population does work that can be done by poor stupid people from the third world. So paying domestic populations more for work that can be done by poor stupid people from the third world is a waste of money and resources.

  148. Back when white folks were truly patriotic and racially aware, they were also horrified by birth control, never mind abortion.

    Abortion was primarily a Catholic obsession until the Televangelists began seeing as a good way to make a buck. The Moral Majority frauds milked that puppy for 40 years. Now the millennials don’t care about abortion. Increasingly they worry instead about the coming demographic catastrophe of a burgeoning underclass that their idiot parents and grandparents bequeathed them.

    Who in their right mind is “horrified by birth control, never mind abortion” other than a relative handful Monty Pythonesque “Every Sperm Is Sacred” Catholics and dried up post menopausal church ladies.

    Ask around and you will find that working and middle class whites and many middle class NAMs who have had to move away from city centers every couple of decades to escape the underclass are all in favor or “Norplanting” and Vasalgeling the drug addicted, welfare addicted, and criminal underclass. “You want welfare?”, fine, then agree to the one welfare baby rule, after that long term birth control.

    Also Vasalgel once perfected will be a great way to keep felons out of the gene pool.
    Want parole, submit to Vasalgel, we you prove you can go straight and hold a job, then we will gladly reverse your vasectomy.

    Only loony strict social constructionist Cultural Marxists will have a problem with that.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Now the millennials don’t care about abortion.
     
    Yesterday's twenty-year-olds didn't care, either. Now they're the backbone of the pro-life forces. Earth to Antimarxist: people's views change as they mature.

    Abortion was primarily a Catholic obsession…
     
    So, in 1968, every state but Washington was Catholic?

    Who in their right mind is “horrified by birth control, never mind abortion” [?]
     
    This guy, for one.

    Basic facts of life: Voluntary contraception is dysgenic, because you need brains and self-control to use it. Involuntary contraception is anathema across the political spectrum. Good luck selling it.

    Why not just tax white's condoms and abortions to pay for blacks'?

    Your vaunted "millennials" voted for BHO, twice. Try these ideas out on the kiosks at your nearest college campus, and see the reaction.
    , @Sam Haysom
    Then why on earth was birth control banned until Griswold? I think it would be best if you left the history and sociology to others and just argued for your spay and neuter routine via different methods. Your birth control lust definitely lines you up on the side of the cultural Marxist. Basically you are a useful idiot.
    , @Anonymous
    An association between surgical vasectomy and aggressive prostate cancer has recently been reported. It's not clear that vasectomy is causal but is still worrisome without additional research for clarification. Vasalgel/RISUG has only been through short-term clinical trials so far. Can the developers be sure that it does not carry the same association?
  149. If Posner and his Stepford Wives Club want the rest of the world to have more money, then why the h*ll don’t they donate their cash to 3rd world refugees? Want to avoid corruption?Feel free to fly themselves or pitch in together and fly a representative to just hand out cash directly to scores of Guatemalans, or Zimbabweans or whatever. Feel free to empty out as much of their deep bank accounts to their hearts desires and enrich themselves in all the wonderful vibrancy or whatever of the region while they’re at it.

    They’re the ones with all the cash, so why is it they feel necessary to try to get my more modest earnings? Why do we even have to debate this? If I have no right to direct his earnings to pay for snow tires for my car, why does he have the right to pick my pockets to pay for his pet projects?

    The whole thing is just posturing to publicly pat themselves on the back, while other people pay the costs.

  150. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Boxings way cleaner, as everyone knows. You judiciously avoided Vladimir Klitchko and PEDS and can well understand why that is so.

    In the PED sense, let's face it: most sports are dirty. When the world's leading badminton champion just got busted for PEDS it does tend to make you rethink the entire "Will do anything to win" mentality. Badminton? Seriously?

    If not mistaken, didn't NFL great Jim Brown do that sport at Syracuse in between football, track, and some basketball?

    Badminton, no less. So you can well forget about the women's sports cause they're dirty as well.

    There’s a new documentary out on Dock Ellis, the black pitcher from the 70s who pitched a no-hitter while high on LSD. He also frequently used amphetamines. Apparently amphetamine use before games was common in MLB before the steroid era. I don’t know if amphetamine use has continued though.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/05/no-no-a-documentary-on-mlb-pitcher-dock-ellis-who-pitched-a-no-hitter-while-tripping-on-acid.html

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Yes, Dock was on the '71 team and lost the WS opener to Baltimore. He often intimidated opposing batters by just, well, hitting them and sometimes in the face. He pitched his no-hitter in SD in '70 (June, I believe). Supposedly David Wells was either high or drunk when he pitched his perfect game back in the late 90s w/NY.

    During his single year for the Orioles, Reggie Jackson in '76 yelled out from the bench "Hey! Ellis! If you want to throw at somebody, try throwing at me!" And, Dock (then pitching for the Yankees) stepped up to the challenge and hit Reggie flush in the face. Jackson was out for a couple of weeks.

    Ok, would you please let it go regarding Amphetamines, commonly known as "Greenies"? They are NOT the same thing whatsoever. Greenies are basically equivalent to caffeine pills. If you take too many you're extremely wired but they won't enable you to hit 60, 70plus HRs per season.

    In his autobiography Jose Canseco makes clear that they simply don't hold a candle to the "real" thing, namely, steroids.

    Look at the bodybuilding world. You think that Arnold, Steve Reeves, Bill Perle etc got all bulked up cause of greenies? Honestly? They were juiced up, not greened up, come on! Greenies, compared to PEDS, don't hold a candle and there were no discernible effects in offensive totals which remained essentially the same during the several decades they were used.

    Greenies came into play during late 50s/60s and were seen as helping players deal with night game after day game and jetting from one city to another, time zones, etc. That was a fairly revolutionary break from the decades of train travel and playing all games during the day.

    Good lord, fans complaining about greenies. Maybe by 2040 we'll hear some of them exclaim, "You know MLBers taking steroids, this should stop about now!"

    They never did anything it was mostly psychological. And irrelevant. On this one I'll look to common sense and Jose Canseco's explanation: They don't hold a candle to PEDS for maximum productivity and you'd get the same effect by drinking ten cups of coffee or expresso before game time.

  151. @CJ
    Yes, Steve reads them so we don't have to. But if you really want to read an 11th article from NYT or National Post or The Independent, you can:

    1. Delete your cookies. You actually only need to delete the cookies of the site you want to read. Or,

    2. Delete all history and temporary whatever with a program like Piriform Ccleaner. Or,

    3. Using Firefox or a related browser like Pale Moon, use Open in Private Tab to read the story.

    I don’t know if you still can, but about a year ago, if you were fast enough, you could copy the article and paste into Word. It worked for a lot of online papers.

  152. @syonredux
    MMM, you seem to have a serious case of Mustapha Mond-O'Brien syndrome ("The Inner Party members don't really believe the ideology that they spoon feed to everyone else; they know that it's all cover for the endless boot in the face"). Sadly, our masters are mostly hypocritical creatures; they tend to actually believe what they say.

    Do I believe that Posner and Weyl really believe their BS?

    No I do not.

    I know Howard Zinn did not believe his BS either. In fact to anyone who would really listen, Zinn would tell you he knew he was lying through his teeth. He had absolute contempt for his goyim admirers. Yet, even the TNR in a biography review stated that even for many Jews who knew he was a fraud, Zinn was a Jewish icon, a true cultural warrior unafraid to stick to the Goyim by brainwashing their children into states of debilitating ethnomasochism.

    Pretty much the same for Saul Alinsky.

    Are there uber-rich cheap labor seeking capitalist dim-wits who get erections reading Mr Posner and Weyl or Tyler Cowen’s swill? Hell Yes!!!

    Veritas is a Hellenistic/Christian concept.

    • Replies: @gu
    "Veritas is a Hellenistic/Christian concept."

    The sad thing is, he probably thinks this is true.
  153. Excuse me, “copy and paste.” I tried to correct that, but the correction was marked as spam.

  154. So TNR writers are fools and knaves. Is that a revelation?

  155. @Olorin
    Just one problem. The English did not found the US. Fenno-Scandians in the mid-Atlantic did.

    The English came half a century later.

    Just one problem. The English did not found the US. Fenno-Scandians in the mid-Atlantic did.

    That’s funny. I wish you could tell that to my ancestors who came to Virginia in 1630.

  156. @syonredux
    Hey, Steve, any plans to post a review of INTERSTELLAR? I just saw it.Surprisingly clunky script (it made The Dark Knight Rises look like good in comparison) but the visuals were quite stunning. Plus, there were lots of points that seem ripe for your brand of analysis: prominent screen time given to Smart Blacks, zero East Asians in speaking parts, the valorization of Anglo norms, a pro-natalist bias, etc

    Plus, there were lots of points that seem ripe for your brand of analysis: prominent screen time given to Smart Blacks, zero East Asians in speaking parts, the valorization of Anglo norms, a pro-natalist bias, etc

    Right. It was like a Spielberg movie.

  157. @Trumped
    Off topic: Kovalev just destroyed and humiliated Bernard Hopkins to become the light heavy champ. Just a couple weeks ago, golovkin destroyed his opponent at middleweight. A lot of the nonsense myths about blacks being better athletes are being ended by the Soviet Bloc fighters being at least equally athletic and far more technically skilled. In fact, the black American fighters actively avoid Golovkin and Kovalev and want nothing to do with fighting them.

    Currently the best heavyweight, light heavy, and middleweight are all white - though Golovkin obviously is mixed with Asian, too. No one is more upset about this than the leftist sports media that is full of nerdy unathletic white guys who worship black athletes, which is why they will discuss the current white domination of boxing at middleweight and up about as much as they did Dave Brat winning bc of amnesty.

    The Great Black Hope will have to come from somewhere!

    Kovalev fought a great fight, but Hopkins is nearly 50 years old.

  158. @anonymous-antimarxist
    Back when white folks were truly patriotic and racially aware, they were also horrified by birth control, never mind abortion.

    Abortion was primarily a Catholic obsession until the Televangelists began seeing as a good way to make a buck. The Moral Majority frauds milked that puppy for 40 years. Now the millennials don't care about abortion. Increasingly they worry instead about the coming demographic catastrophe of a burgeoning underclass that their idiot parents and grandparents bequeathed them.

    Who in their right mind is "horrified by birth control, never mind abortion" other than a relative handful Monty Pythonesque "Every Sperm Is Sacred" Catholics and dried up post menopausal church ladies.

    Ask around and you will find that working and middle class whites and many middle class NAMs who have had to move away from city centers every couple of decades to escape the underclass are all in favor or "Norplanting" and Vasalgeling the drug addicted, welfare addicted, and criminal underclass. "You want welfare?", fine, then agree to the one welfare baby rule, after that long term birth control.

    Also Vasalgel once perfected will be a great way to keep felons out of the gene pool.
    Want parole, submit to Vasalgel, we you prove you can go straight and hold a job, then we will gladly reverse your vasectomy.

    Only loony strict social constructionist Cultural Marxists will have a problem with that.

    Now the millennials don’t care about abortion.

    Yesterday’s twenty-year-olds didn’t care, either. Now they’re the backbone of the pro-life forces. Earth to Antimarxist: people’s views change as they mature.

    Abortion was primarily a Catholic obsession…

    So, in 1968, every state but Washington was Catholic?

    Who in their right mind is “horrified by birth control, never mind abortion” [?]

    This guy, for one.

    Basic facts of life: Voluntary contraception is dysgenic, because you need brains and self-control to use it. Involuntary contraception is anathema across the political spectrum. Good luck selling it.

    Why not just tax white’s condoms and abortions to pay for blacks’?

    Your vaunted “millennials” voted for BHO, twice. Try these ideas out on the kiosks at your nearest college campus, and see the reaction.

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
    Reg you are wasting your time. BC is a magic bullet for him and he isn't curious enough or intelligent enough to understand why he's a useful idiot for the "cultural Marxist." He doesn't even appear to be aware, as you mention, the near nation wide ban on BC until Griswold. The SC that issued Griswold had one Catholic one it who supported the ruling and the ruling was opposed by Hugo Black who got his start in politics defending a man who murdered a priest. There were as many Kluxers as Catholics on the SC for that ruling. Hardly sounds like anyone was taking their marching orders from Rome.
    , @anonymous-antimarxist

    Basic facts of life: Voluntary contraception is dysgenic, because you need brains and self-control to use it. Involuntary contraception is anathema across the political spectrum. Good luck selling it.
     
    Yes, Richard Lynn has noted that the condom, when it was first adopted had a mild dysgenic effect because it took a level of intelligence but more important self control to use it.

    However, that is not at all an issue with Norplant or Vasalgel.

    Again I am not advocating forced sterilizations. What I am saying is that if you want generous social welfare benefits, Section 8, food stamps, pre-K, Headstart... then you are limited to one out of wedlock child while unemployed. Norplant or other long acting birth control for women could be used.

    For men Vasagel has the potential of keeping the criminal population from increasingly influencing the gene pool. You will not have 16 year old repeat violent felons playing the knockout game for years while fathering multiple bastards then, when finally they get sentenced as an adult, argue that they should not handed too harsh a penalty less they be separated from their children.

    Last, Teddy Roosevelt was a unabashed eugenicist. Hell, yes he wanted the white middle class having babies. But the idea of having the underclass pushing out bastards on the public dime like today would have been anathema to him.
  159. @kaganovitch
    All of this is just leftist maneuvering to get the camel's nose under the tent of course. Once the helot class is here it will be the usual crap bleating about "the shadows" "tired poor huddled masses" etc etc

    All of this is just leftist maneuvering to get the camel’s nose under the tent of course. Once the helot class is here it will be the usual crap bleating about “the shadows” “tired poor huddled masses” etc etc

    Exactly. There’s way too much overthinking in this thread; Posner and Weyl’s plan strikes me as pretty straightforward. The underclass in the USA is now kind of boring and disappointing, and since their votes for the Democratic Party are locked up anyway, it’d be much more fun to import a fresh new underclass. And it’d be so rewarding to show our European betters how well we could treat them, with free schooling and housing and food stamps and drivers’ licenses and voting rights and perpetual family chain immigration . . . .

  160. @anonymous-antimarxist
    Back when white folks were truly patriotic and racially aware, they were also horrified by birth control, never mind abortion.

    Abortion was primarily a Catholic obsession until the Televangelists began seeing as a good way to make a buck. The Moral Majority frauds milked that puppy for 40 years. Now the millennials don't care about abortion. Increasingly they worry instead about the coming demographic catastrophe of a burgeoning underclass that their idiot parents and grandparents bequeathed them.

    Who in their right mind is "horrified by birth control, never mind abortion" other than a relative handful Monty Pythonesque "Every Sperm Is Sacred" Catholics and dried up post menopausal church ladies.

    Ask around and you will find that working and middle class whites and many middle class NAMs who have had to move away from city centers every couple of decades to escape the underclass are all in favor or "Norplanting" and Vasalgeling the drug addicted, welfare addicted, and criminal underclass. "You want welfare?", fine, then agree to the one welfare baby rule, after that long term birth control.

    Also Vasalgel once perfected will be a great way to keep felons out of the gene pool.
    Want parole, submit to Vasalgel, we you prove you can go straight and hold a job, then we will gladly reverse your vasectomy.

    Only loony strict social constructionist Cultural Marxists will have a problem with that.

    Then why on earth was birth control banned until Griswold? I think it would be best if you left the history and sociology to others and just argued for your spay and neuter routine via different methods. Your birth control lust definitely lines you up on the side of the cultural Marxist. Basically you are a useful idiot.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    Cultural Marxists(i.e. Utopians) argue that they could not care who is having the babies even if it clearly the far left half of the bell curve in intelligence and positive social traits. In their view it is society's duty (i.e. European America) to spend whatever it takes to fix the problem on the backend. In other words "reality" is solely social constructed. There is no such thing as IQ.

    The "tragic vision", in the words of Steven Pinker, is that yes heredity matters a great deal. You can not socially construct the same moral universe out of significantly different gene pools. Sub Sahara African can not be remade in to North Hemisphere by mere cultural means.

    I am therefore in no ways a Cultural Marxist.

    It is really goofy that in many ways anti contraceptive and anti abortion religious folks can not see that the way in which they delude themselves into promoting the Marxist(nature denialist) agenda.
  161. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous-antimarxist
    Back when white folks were truly patriotic and racially aware, they were also horrified by birth control, never mind abortion.

    Abortion was primarily a Catholic obsession until the Televangelists began seeing as a good way to make a buck. The Moral Majority frauds milked that puppy for 40 years. Now the millennials don't care about abortion. Increasingly they worry instead about the coming demographic catastrophe of a burgeoning underclass that their idiot parents and grandparents bequeathed them.

    Who in their right mind is "horrified by birth control, never mind abortion" other than a relative handful Monty Pythonesque "Every Sperm Is Sacred" Catholics and dried up post menopausal church ladies.

    Ask around and you will find that working and middle class whites and many middle class NAMs who have had to move away from city centers every couple of decades to escape the underclass are all in favor or "Norplanting" and Vasalgeling the drug addicted, welfare addicted, and criminal underclass. "You want welfare?", fine, then agree to the one welfare baby rule, after that long term birth control.

    Also Vasalgel once perfected will be a great way to keep felons out of the gene pool.
    Want parole, submit to Vasalgel, we you prove you can go straight and hold a job, then we will gladly reverse your vasectomy.

    Only loony strict social constructionist Cultural Marxists will have a problem with that.

    An association between surgical vasectomy and aggressive prostate cancer has recently been reported. It’s not clear that vasectomy is causal but is still worrisome without additional research for clarification. Vasalgel/RISUG has only been through short-term clinical trials so far. Can the developers be sure that it does not carry the same association?

  162. Double post; deleted.

  163. @Anonymous
    Talking about that Kovalev boxing victory, has anyone else noticed that professional boxing and boxers hardly get the 'superstar' publicity and acclaim they used to get way back in the 1970s, and now are hardly mentioned and lionized.
    - Could it be something to do with the fact that American, specifically black American boxers no longer dominate the sport, in particular east Euros now dominate the heavier divisions, and thus the whole publicity machine has wound down?

    The best pound-for-pound boxer today is black (Floyd Mayweather). The reason boxing doesn’t get talked about as much today is that the best fighters fight so infrequently.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Because it really hurts.
  164. @Reg Cæsar

    Now the millennials don’t care about abortion.
     
    Yesterday's twenty-year-olds didn't care, either. Now they're the backbone of the pro-life forces. Earth to Antimarxist: people's views change as they mature.

    Abortion was primarily a Catholic obsession…
     
    So, in 1968, every state but Washington was Catholic?

    Who in their right mind is “horrified by birth control, never mind abortion” [?]
     
    This guy, for one.

    Basic facts of life: Voluntary contraception is dysgenic, because you need brains and self-control to use it. Involuntary contraception is anathema across the political spectrum. Good luck selling it.

    Why not just tax white's condoms and abortions to pay for blacks'?

    Your vaunted "millennials" voted for BHO, twice. Try these ideas out on the kiosks at your nearest college campus, and see the reaction.

    Reg you are wasting your time. BC is a magic bullet for him and he isn’t curious enough or intelligent enough to understand why he’s a useful idiot for the “cultural Marxist.” He doesn’t even appear to be aware, as you mention, the near nation wide ban on BC until Griswold. The SC that issued Griswold had one Catholic one it who supported the ruling and the ruling was opposed by Hugo Black who got his start in politics defending a man who murdered a priest. There were as many Kluxers as Catholics on the SC for that ruling. Hardly sounds like anyone was taking their marching orders from Rome.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "He doesn’t even appear to be aware, as you mention, the near nation wide ban on BC until Griswold."

    There wasn't a near nationwide ban on birth control until the Griswold decision in 1965; however, Griswold prevented states from making it harder to publicly promote birth control.

  165. Prof. Glen Weyl kindly answers my questions via Twitter:

    – No, he’s not aware of any family relation to Nathaniel Weyl, the surname analyst.

    – Yes, the German mathematician Hermann Weyl was some kind of great-uncle.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    Weyl (and Weil and Weill) is a very common name among Alsatian Jews.
  166. @Dave Pinsen
    The best pound-for-pound boxer today is black (Floyd Mayweather). The reason boxing doesn't get talked about as much today is that the best fighters fight so infrequently.

    Because it really hurts.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    I think it's more because the sport is so fragmented. If there were one, respected ranking organization that mandated boxers fight 3x per year to keep their belts and rankings, there'd be more fan interest.
  167. @Sam Haysom
    Reg you are wasting your time. BC is a magic bullet for him and he isn't curious enough or intelligent enough to understand why he's a useful idiot for the "cultural Marxist." He doesn't even appear to be aware, as you mention, the near nation wide ban on BC until Griswold. The SC that issued Griswold had one Catholic one it who supported the ruling and the ruling was opposed by Hugo Black who got his start in politics defending a man who murdered a priest. There were as many Kluxers as Catholics on the SC for that ruling. Hardly sounds like anyone was taking their marching orders from Rome.

    “He doesn’t even appear to be aware, as you mention, the near nation wide ban on BC until Griswold.”

    There wasn’t a near nationwide ban on birth control until the Griswold decision in 1965; however, Griswold prevented states from making it harder to publicly promote birth control.

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
    I was wrong about nation wide bans some states has repealed their the Comstock era laws and others has never enacted them, but Griswold was not about the legality of promoting BC it was about a specific state law that outlawed the use of BC. In Connecticut it was until Griswold illegal to use BC. Quite a few states had similar legislation.
  168. “Boxings way cleaner, as everyone knows. You judiciously avoided Vladimir Klitchko and PEDS and can well understand why that is so.”

    I was addressing the idea that somehow former soviets do steroids more than Americans. Long time champs and legends in american boxing circles like Roy Jones Jr and James Toney have both tested positive for steroids, for example. That is not up for debate and is a matter of public record that is swept under the rug when discussions on drug use and boxing are brought up. If you really feel that boxing is a clean sport, don’t investigate certain bodybuilding associates of Evander Holyfield either – that will really depress you.

    I remember having arguments with people a decade ago who insisted that lance Armstrong was clean and I was paranoid that the entire sport of cycling was full of drug users. I think we see how that debate ended!

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I wonder if steroids has increased the amount of brain damage boxers do each other by letting them hit harder? Presumably you can strengthen your neck muscles as well to absorb some of the blows to the head better, but I think it's pretty likely overall that steroids have made boxing and football more dangerous.

    What's that French fighting sport featured in the first Robert Downey as Sherlock Holmes movie where they slap each other? Maybe that would be better for the steroid age?

    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    I already said that most sports today are dirty. I was saying that Russian athletes taking a cue from their ex-Soviet forerunners are just as dirty as Americans.

    Armstrong was about as dirty as they come, but initially he had an excuse. He had cancer. People forget that many PEDS were initially developed as medicine to help treat people. Armstrong could have beaten that rap if he'd come out initially and said, "Yeah, I did this recently because of..." and then nobody could ever touch him. Because it would be like, "Well, duh, he had...of course he would be expected to be taking things for treatment."

    And that would've been the end of that discussion. His problem was the coverup and the decades of lying about it whereas if he'd just have admitted to it early on and stated that it was part of his treatment, he'd have most likely gotten away with it. People tend to be understanding when it comes to those sorts of illnesses, etc. but generally don't like it when public figures continue to lie about something that is fairly demonstrable vs them.
  169. “Kovalev fought a great fight, but Hopkins is nearly 50 years old.”

    Yet the same “nearly 50 year old” has been dominating other black Americans at this weight class for years and years. At no point would Hopkins in his career ever have been able to defeat kovalev – the matchup style is just awful for him. Not to mention that literally half the boxing media picked Hopkins to win – suddenly age is an excuse after the fact I guess.

    If this were just a case of an old guy being beaten up, then all of the other young fighters like Adonis Stevenson would not be doing their best to avoid Kovalev. Hopkins was the only big name who would even take the fight against kovalev – no one else will get in with him or golovkin bc they know what will happen.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Hopkins also dominated white American Kelly Pavlik. But he hasn't been 2 months from his 50th birthday for years and years.
    , @Truth

    “Kovalev fought a great fight, but Hopkins is nearly 50 years old.”

    Yet the same “nearly 50 year old” has been dominating other black Americans at this weight class for years and years."

     

    Dude, you sound like a fool and you know nothing about boxing. Hopkins has not "dominated other black Americans, he lost easily to a prime Roy Jones, and has lost two to Chad Dawson, and two to Jermain Taylor in the last 5 years.

    The last three guys Hopkins fought were "white", and his record over the last 9 year is 9-5-1.

  170. @Anonymous
    There's a new documentary out on Dock Ellis, the black pitcher from the 70s who pitched a no-hitter while high on LSD. He also frequently used amphetamines. Apparently amphetamine use before games was common in MLB before the steroid era. I don't know if amphetamine use has continued though.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/05/no-no-a-documentary-on-mlb-pitcher-dock-ellis-who-pitched-a-no-hitter-while-tripping-on-acid.html

    Yes, Dock was on the ’71 team and lost the WS opener to Baltimore. He often intimidated opposing batters by just, well, hitting them and sometimes in the face. He pitched his no-hitter in SD in ’70 (June, I believe). Supposedly David Wells was either high or drunk when he pitched his perfect game back in the late 90s w/NY.

    During his single year for the Orioles, Reggie Jackson in ’76 yelled out from the bench “Hey! Ellis! If you want to throw at somebody, try throwing at me!” And, Dock (then pitching for the Yankees) stepped up to the challenge and hit Reggie flush in the face. Jackson was out for a couple of weeks.

    Ok, would you please let it go regarding Amphetamines, commonly known as “Greenies”? They are NOT the same thing whatsoever. Greenies are basically equivalent to caffeine pills. If you take too many you’re extremely wired but they won’t enable you to hit 60, 70plus HRs per season.

    In his autobiography Jose Canseco makes clear that they simply don’t hold a candle to the “real” thing, namely, steroids.

    Look at the bodybuilding world. You think that Arnold, Steve Reeves, Bill Perle etc got all bulked up cause of greenies? Honestly? They were juiced up, not greened up, come on! Greenies, compared to PEDS, don’t hold a candle and there were no discernible effects in offensive totals which remained essentially the same during the several decades they were used.

    Greenies came into play during late 50s/60s and were seen as helping players deal with night game after day game and jetting from one city to another, time zones, etc. That was a fairly revolutionary break from the decades of train travel and playing all games during the day.

    Good lord, fans complaining about greenies. Maybe by 2040 we’ll hear some of them exclaim, “You know MLBers taking steroids, this should stop about now!”

    They never did anything it was mostly psychological. And irrelevant. On this one I’ll look to common sense and Jose Canseco’s explanation: They don’t hold a candle to PEDS for maximum productivity and you’d get the same effect by drinking ten cups of coffee or expresso before game time.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Argue what greenies are with Jim Bouton and Jerry Kramer. Both wrote about their experiences over a particular season in the 60s, and both talk about greenies in pharmaceutical prescription terms. They were available in the college baseball clubhouse when my brother pitched for a top 20 program back in the 70s. They are a performance enhancer; as my friend who kept the season tickets for the Red Sox back when they were talking about PED use and amphetamines said, over the 162 games he wants to see guys awake and alert for his entertainment dollar. Over a 9-month season, one needs to be "up" for the game.
  171. @Trumped
    "Boxings way cleaner, as everyone knows. You judiciously avoided Vladimir Klitchko and PEDS and can well understand why that is so."

    I was addressing the idea that somehow former soviets do steroids more than Americans. Long time champs and legends in american boxing circles like Roy Jones Jr and James Toney have both tested positive for steroids, for example. That is not up for debate and is a matter of public record that is swept under the rug when discussions on drug use and boxing are brought up. If you really feel that boxing is a clean sport, don't investigate certain bodybuilding associates of Evander Holyfield either - that will really depress you.

    I remember having arguments with people a decade ago who insisted that lance Armstrong was clean and I was paranoid that the entire sport of cycling was full of drug users. I think we see how that debate ended!

    I wonder if steroids has increased the amount of brain damage boxers do each other by letting them hit harder? Presumably you can strengthen your neck muscles as well to absorb some of the blows to the head better, but I think it’s pretty likely overall that steroids have made boxing and football more dangerous.

    What’s that French fighting sport featured in the first Robert Downey as Sherlock Holmes movie where they slap each other? Maybe that would be better for the steroid age?

    • Replies: @Volksverhetzer
    The main treason boxing have become so dangerous, is because of all the short term safety measures. Boxing gloves and helmets have made it possible to receive multiple blows to the head. In addition, before gloves, hitting the head was dangerous, as you could easily break your fingers.

    I suspect this is true in many areas of society, in that we now have so many safety measures, that the safety measures themselves now are the main cause of harm.
  172. @Trumped
    "Boxings way cleaner, as everyone knows. You judiciously avoided Vladimir Klitchko and PEDS and can well understand why that is so."

    I was addressing the idea that somehow former soviets do steroids more than Americans. Long time champs and legends in american boxing circles like Roy Jones Jr and James Toney have both tested positive for steroids, for example. That is not up for debate and is a matter of public record that is swept under the rug when discussions on drug use and boxing are brought up. If you really feel that boxing is a clean sport, don't investigate certain bodybuilding associates of Evander Holyfield either - that will really depress you.

    I remember having arguments with people a decade ago who insisted that lance Armstrong was clean and I was paranoid that the entire sport of cycling was full of drug users. I think we see how that debate ended!

    I already said that most sports today are dirty. I was saying that Russian athletes taking a cue from their ex-Soviet forerunners are just as dirty as Americans.

    Armstrong was about as dirty as they come, but initially he had an excuse. He had cancer. People forget that many PEDS were initially developed as medicine to help treat people. Armstrong could have beaten that rap if he’d come out initially and said, “Yeah, I did this recently because of…” and then nobody could ever touch him. Because it would be like, “Well, duh, he had…of course he would be expected to be taking things for treatment.”

    And that would’ve been the end of that discussion. His problem was the coverup and the decades of lying about it whereas if he’d just have admitted to it early on and stated that it was part of his treatment, he’d have most likely gotten away with it. People tend to be understanding when it comes to those sorts of illnesses, etc. but generally don’t like it when public figures continue to lie about something that is fairly demonstrable vs them.

  173. This has to be the weirdest comment thread that I’ve seen on Sailer’s blog, but its much saner than this comment thread, from a post made the same day, on Marginal Revolution:

    http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/11/assorted-links-1286.html#comments

    And the topic is the exact same, a proposal by Tyler Cowen that Europe/ Japan import tens of millions of people from poorer countries as a solution to inequality and the global underpopulation (!) problem. He doesn’t mention the US because presumably the US is already doing this. Most of his commentators at least are calling the idea demented. But it seems that this is the next Big Idea from the 1%.

    Sailer often comments on Marginal Revolution, so I’m surprised he didn’t comment on that post or cross-reference it here.

    They was a commentator way up in the thread who praised North Korea, and has an entire blog praising and defending North Korea and its government. But when you think about it, this is actually no crazier/ creepier/ morally unhinged than praising any of the Gulf emirates.

  174. @Sam Haysom
    Then why on earth was birth control banned until Griswold? I think it would be best if you left the history and sociology to others and just argued for your spay and neuter routine via different methods. Your birth control lust definitely lines you up on the side of the cultural Marxist. Basically you are a useful idiot.

    Cultural Marxists(i.e. Utopians) argue that they could not care who is having the babies even if it clearly the far left half of the bell curve in intelligence and positive social traits. In their view it is society’s duty (i.e. European America) to spend whatever it takes to fix the problem on the backend. In other words “reality” is solely social constructed. There is no such thing as IQ.

    The “tragic vision”, in the words of Steven Pinker, is that yes heredity matters a great deal. You can not socially construct the same moral universe out of significantly different gene pools. Sub Sahara African can not be remade in to North Hemisphere by mere cultural means.

    I am therefore in no ways a Cultural Marxist.

    It is really goofy that in many ways anti contraceptive and anti abortion religious folks can not see that the way in which they delude themselves into promoting the Marxist(nature denialist) agenda.

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
    And yet all the cultural Marxists and far leftist praise birth control and promote its subsidization. Just admit you made common cause with the far-left.
  175. @Reg Cæsar

    Now the millennials don’t care about abortion.
     
    Yesterday's twenty-year-olds didn't care, either. Now they're the backbone of the pro-life forces. Earth to Antimarxist: people's views change as they mature.

    Abortion was primarily a Catholic obsession…
     
    So, in 1968, every state but Washington was Catholic?

    Who in their right mind is “horrified by birth control, never mind abortion” [?]
     
    This guy, for one.

    Basic facts of life: Voluntary contraception is dysgenic, because you need brains and self-control to use it. Involuntary contraception is anathema across the political spectrum. Good luck selling it.

    Why not just tax white's condoms and abortions to pay for blacks'?

    Your vaunted "millennials" voted for BHO, twice. Try these ideas out on the kiosks at your nearest college campus, and see the reaction.

    Basic facts of life: Voluntary contraception is dysgenic, because you need brains and self-control to use it. Involuntary contraception is anathema across the political spectrum. Good luck selling it.

    Yes, Richard Lynn has noted that the condom, when it was first adopted had a mild dysgenic effect because it took a level of intelligence but more important self control to use it.

    However, that is not at all an issue with Norplant or Vasalgel.

    Again I am not advocating forced sterilizations. What I am saying is that if you want generous social welfare benefits, Section 8, food stamps, pre-K, Headstart… then you are limited to one out of wedlock child while unemployed. Norplant or other long acting birth control for women could be used.

    For men Vasagel has the potential of keeping the criminal population from increasingly influencing the gene pool. You will not have 16 year old repeat violent felons playing the knockout game for years while fathering multiple bastards then, when finally they get sentenced as an adult, argue that they should not handed too harsh a penalty less they be separated from their children.

    Last, Teddy Roosevelt was a unabashed eugenicist. Hell, yes he wanted the white middle class having babies. But the idea of having the underclass pushing out bastards on the public dime like today would have been anathema to him.

  176. @Steve Sailer
    Because it really hurts.

    I think it’s more because the sport is so fragmented. If there were one, respected ranking organization that mandated boxers fight 3x per year to keep their belts and rankings, there’d be more fan interest.

  177. @Steve Sailer
    "He doesn’t even appear to be aware, as you mention, the near nation wide ban on BC until Griswold."

    There wasn't a near nationwide ban on birth control until the Griswold decision in 1965; however, Griswold prevented states from making it harder to publicly promote birth control.

    I was wrong about nation wide bans some states has repealed their the Comstock era laws and others has never enacted them, but Griswold was not about the legality of promoting BC it was about a specific state law that outlawed the use of BC. In Connecticut it was until Griswold illegal to use BC. Quite a few states had similar legislation.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    But private use of birth control was not enforced. The case turned on Planned Parenthood opening a public clinic and forcing a test case, I believe.
  178. @anonymous-antimarxist
    Cultural Marxists(i.e. Utopians) argue that they could not care who is having the babies even if it clearly the far left half of the bell curve in intelligence and positive social traits. In their view it is society's duty (i.e. European America) to spend whatever it takes to fix the problem on the backend. In other words "reality" is solely social constructed. There is no such thing as IQ.

    The "tragic vision", in the words of Steven Pinker, is that yes heredity matters a great deal. You can not socially construct the same moral universe out of significantly different gene pools. Sub Sahara African can not be remade in to North Hemisphere by mere cultural means.

    I am therefore in no ways a Cultural Marxist.

    It is really goofy that in many ways anti contraceptive and anti abortion religious folks can not see that the way in which they delude themselves into promoting the Marxist(nature denialist) agenda.

    And yet all the cultural Marxists and far leftist praise birth control and promote its subsidization. Just admit you made common cause with the far-left.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    Yes Sam, I believe 95+% of child bearing age Republicans are grateful for modern birth control. I born into a very large Catholic family in the early sixties. Today I know of no families any where near as large as my parent's except for that of welfare dependents, mega millionaire athletes and of course the Duggars.

    And yes like most Americans including Republicans I am for subsidized birth control for the poor.

    WAKE UP BUDDY. The Sound of Music is no longer playing at the drive in and Lawrence Welk no longer has a hit tv show.
  179. @Trumped
    "Kovalev fought a great fight, but Hopkins is nearly 50 years old."

    Yet the same "nearly 50 year old" has been dominating other black Americans at this weight class for years and years. At no point would Hopkins in his career ever have been able to defeat kovalev - the matchup style is just awful for him. Not to mention that literally half the boxing media picked Hopkins to win - suddenly age is an excuse after the fact I guess.

    If this were just a case of an old guy being beaten up, then all of the other young fighters like Adonis Stevenson would not be doing their best to avoid Kovalev. Hopkins was the only big name who would even take the fight against kovalev - no one else will get in with him or golovkin bc they know what will happen.

    Hopkins also dominated white American Kelly Pavlik. But he hasn’t been 2 months from his 50th birthday for years and years.

  180. @Steve Sailer
    Prof. Glen Weyl kindly answers my questions via Twitter:

    - No, he's not aware of any family relation to Nathaniel Weyl, the surname analyst.

    - Yes, the German mathematician Hermann Weyl was some kind of great-uncle.

    Weyl (and Weil and Weill) is a very common name among Alsatian Jews.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Weyl is not an exclusively Jewish name. Hermann Weyl was born in Elmshorn near Hamburg, not in Alsace. His mother's maiden name, Dieck, was not a common Jewish name. He also retained his professorship at Gottingen after the Jewish professors had been expelled and even briefly directed the Mathematical Institute there that year until he decided to leave, which wouldn't have been possible for any Jew. If the younger Mr. Weyl is like most other American Jews, he has has no real knowledge of his genealogy, and dubious family stories are passed down with minimal questioning. I wonder if his parents or grandparents even thought to investigate whether Hermann Weyl was of Jewish ancestry or just assumed his Jewishness and a familial connection.
  181. @Sam Haysom
    I was wrong about nation wide bans some states has repealed their the Comstock era laws and others has never enacted them, but Griswold was not about the legality of promoting BC it was about a specific state law that outlawed the use of BC. In Connecticut it was until Griswold illegal to use BC. Quite a few states had similar legislation.

    But private use of birth control was not enforced. The case turned on Planned Parenthood opening a public clinic and forcing a test case, I believe.

  182. Richard wrote, “Actually, in TNR a few years back, I remember Posner writing that America has no obligation to the third world or even preventing illegal border crossers from dying in the desert.”

    Interesting. Posner either has changed his opinion, or he just likes to argue.

  183. @Olorin
    Just one problem. The English did not found the US. Fenno-Scandians in the mid-Atlantic did.

    The English came half a century later.

    Oh My Dear Ms. Falkenberg: What we have here is a failure to communicate.

    One line in my family goes quaintly back to English people, from south of London, who became early residents of the old, square city of New Haven, Connecticut in the 1600’s . A hundred or so years later, some of that line fought in the American Revolution, which was also led by English Americans.

    You may be surprised to learn that I do know that others from Europe got here early. By golly, I even know that New York used to be called New Amsterdam. I have a little Dutch in me, so how could I overlook that? Like most ordinary, pale Americans, I am a mix of Northwestern European, including even a little bit of your “Fenno-Scandian” (courtesy of Norway.)

    When I refer to who “founded” the United States of America, I am of course referring to the people who fought for the nation by that name and wrote its Constitution. I don’t know what else you could possibly mean by “founded.” Perhaps the word you are searching for is “settled.”

    In any case, I know there were some “Fenno-Scandian” patriots too, descended from those early settlers to which you refer.

    I knew I never should have commented at all. The article is a piece of garbage not to be taken seriously.

  184. but this is like reading Philip K. Dick stories for helpful hints about how to better our community.

    +1

  185. @Reg Cæsar

    The English did not found the US. Fenno-Scandians in the mid-Atlantic did.

    The English came half a century later.
     
    By the time Uusi Ruotsi was founded in 1638, the English had established Virginia, Plymouth, Massachusetts Bay, New Hampshire, Maryland, Connecticut, and Rhode Island, and the Dutch were well-established nearby in New Netherland.

    The Swedes were outnumbered in New Sweden, and lost it to the Dutch. The Dutch were outnumbered in New Netherland, and lost it to the English. There's a lesson in this somewhere.

    He’s referring to that Viking dude (Leif Erikson?) that first set foot on the New World almost half a century before Columbus.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    He’s referring to that Viking dude (Leif Erikson?) that first set foot on the New World almost half a century before Columbus.
     
    Not half a century, half a millennium.
  186. @Olorin
    Just one problem. The English did not found the US. Fenno-Scandians in the mid-Atlantic did.

    The English came half a century later.

    Oh My Dear Ms. Falkenberg: What we have here is a failure to communicate. Let me try to explain my point…

    One line in my family goes quaintly back to English people, from south of London, who became early residents of the old, square city of New Haven, Connecticut in the 1600′s . A hundred or so years later, some of that line fought in the American Revolution, which was also led by English Americans with names like Hancock, Washington, Franklin, Adams, etc.

    You may be surprised to learn that I do know that others from Europe also got here early. By golly, I even know that New York used to be called New Amsterdam. I have a little Dutch in me, so how could I overlook that? Like most ordinary, pale Americans, I am a mix of Northwestern European, including even a little bit of your “Fenno-Scandian” (courtesy of Norway.)

    When I refer to who “founded” the United States of America, I am of course referring to the people who fought for the nation by that name and wrote its Constitution. I don’t know what else you could possibly mean by “founded.” Perhaps the word you are searching for is “settled.”

    In any case, I’m sure there must have been some Fenno-Scandian patriot soldiers too, descended from those early settlers to which you refer.

    I knew I never should have commented at all. The article is a piece of intellectual masturbation not to be taken seriously.

  187. @anonymous-antimarxist
    Do I believe that Posner and Weyl really believe their BS?

    No I do not.

    I know Howard Zinn did not believe his BS either. In fact to anyone who would really listen, Zinn would tell you he knew he was lying through his teeth. He had absolute contempt for his goyim admirers. Yet, even the TNR in a biography review stated that even for many Jews who knew he was a fraud, Zinn was a Jewish icon, a true cultural warrior unafraid to stick to the Goyim by brainwashing their children into states of debilitating ethnomasochism.

    Pretty much the same for Saul Alinsky.

    Are there uber-rich cheap labor seeking capitalist dim-wits who get erections reading Mr Posner and Weyl or Tyler Cowen's swill? Hell Yes!!!

    Veritas is a Hellenistic/Christian concept.

    “Veritas is a Hellenistic/Christian concept.”

    The sad thing is, he probably thinks this is true.

  188. @anonymous
    "Yet we maintain our high standard of living by giving no rights and trivial money to people who live outside our arbitrary borders."

    I see. This has me thinking about just who "we" is and if the author of that sentence inspires within me a sense of "we-ness". Can't say he does. Sounds like he'd have trouble finding any reason to defend our "arbitrary" borders, much less defend me.

    Instead of moving the poorest people in the world here, a better solution would be to move rich people similar to the author outside our arbitrary borders. If they are so arbitrary, I'm sure he won't mind. And, after all, he wants good done to the world. So he must move to the poorest place he can find in the world. What could be more obvious?

    “Instead of moving the poorest people in the world here…”

    I tried to explain the logic over at Open Borders, but they would have none of it. Elite infusion (i.e., neo-colonialism) makes a lot more sense as it’s now well established that the smart fraction drives the economy. Generally, in the medium run, it would be more efficient and effective for Posner, Weyl and their colleagues to e.g., move to the Congo and improve the lot there then for a quarter of the Congo to be moved to the West. Of course, Posner and company have their own interests to look out for,

  189. @Sam Haysom
    And yet all the cultural Marxists and far leftist praise birth control and promote its subsidization. Just admit you made common cause with the far-left.

    Yes Sam, I believe 95+% of child bearing age Republicans are grateful for modern birth control. I born into a very large Catholic family in the early sixties. Today I know of no families any where near as large as my parent’s except for that of welfare dependents, mega millionaire athletes and of course the Duggars.

    And yes like most Americans including Republicans I am for subsidized birth control for the poor.

    WAKE UP BUDDY. The Sound of Music is no longer playing at the drive in and Lawrence Welk no longer has a hit tv show.

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
    I'm like three decades if not more younger than you so that jibe doesn't make sense. Im simply not going to let you pretend that zealous promotion of birth control is anything but an issue trumpeted by the cosmopolitan left. You keep trying to pretend that blank slaters oppose birth control when it is the exact opposite. If anything you need to wake up and realize Margaret Sanger isn't calling the shots anymore at Planned Parenthood. If you walked into Planned Parenthood and told them you were interested in volunteering in order to promote the use of Norplant to keep minority population figures depressed you would be escorted from the building. You are living in some kind of of 1920s time warp where birth control activism and birth rate suppression of non-white populations are linked. Do you follow the news? Have you noticed how the same people bellowing for free birth control are using Ferguson to whip up AA support and clamoring for amnesty.
  190. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @International Jew
    Weyl (and Weil and Weill) is a very common name among Alsatian Jews.

    Weyl is not an exclusively Jewish name. Hermann Weyl was born in Elmshorn near Hamburg, not in Alsace. His mother’s maiden name, Dieck, was not a common Jewish name. He also retained his professorship at Gottingen after the Jewish professors had been expelled and even briefly directed the Mathematical Institute there that year until he decided to leave, which wouldn’t have been possible for any Jew. If the younger Mr. Weyl is like most other American Jews, he has has no real knowledge of his genealogy, and dubious family stories are passed down with minimal questioning. I wonder if his parents or grandparents even thought to investigate whether Hermann Weyl was of Jewish ancestry or just assumed his Jewishness and a familial connection.

  191. The Gulf states maintain stability by

    Excellent post. I could not have said it better. The only thing you omitted are ruinous free trade policies the US elites have forced upon us.

    No, he also left out how Israel is pretty similar, but with slicker optics…and how it’s all justified (but only in Israel's case) because special pleading.

    It’s time to acknowledge the real war waged on the middle-class.

    I suppose the Republicans haven’t gone with “the Democrat Party’s War on the Middle-Class,” “the Democrat Party’s War on Straight White (“gentile”) Men,” and “the Democrat Party’s War on Western Civilization” because they don’t own the megaphone.

    Hopkins is in his 40s you imbecile

    I don’t follow boxing, but didn’t Kovalev win the title in that fight? Doesn’t that imply that Hopkins held it, and Kovalev took it from him? And doesn’t that imply that no other (superhuman, of course) black boxer had what it took to take it from him, prior?

    The problem with poor stupid people is that the more money and resources you give them, the more people they make, so they are always poor.

    It’s worse than that. The problem with people who can’t or won’t be productive is that whatever you give them, they’ll find a way to make it fail. Give them food vouchers, for instance, and they’ll take the money they would have spent on food and spend it on something stupid instead.

    MMM, you seem to have a serious case of Mustapha Mond-O’Brien syndrome (“The Inner Party members don’t really believe the ideology that they spoon feed to everyone else; they know that it’s all cover for the endless boot in the face”). Sadly, our masters are mostly hypocritical creatures; they tend to actually believe what they say.

    I say it’s a mix of types. Some of them are aware schemers, some of them are hypocrites in denial, and many are somewhere in between.

    I also think Jews’ typical stunning lack of introspection (of the kind that can hinder their interests) plays a substantial role, and is probably genetic.

    Golovkin is from Kazakhstan and is half-Korean. Stalin transferred a bunch of Koreans out of the Far East into Central Asia as a part of his population transfer policies.

    And given how well Koreans have been doing in heavy boxing classes, and how poorly the Russians have been doing, it’s clearly his Korean ancestry that puts him in good stead.

  192. @anonymous-antimarxist
    Yes Sam, I believe 95+% of child bearing age Republicans are grateful for modern birth control. I born into a very large Catholic family in the early sixties. Today I know of no families any where near as large as my parent's except for that of welfare dependents, mega millionaire athletes and of course the Duggars.

    And yes like most Americans including Republicans I am for subsidized birth control for the poor.

    WAKE UP BUDDY. The Sound of Music is no longer playing at the drive in and Lawrence Welk no longer has a hit tv show.

    I’m like three decades if not more younger than you so that jibe doesn’t make sense. Im simply not going to let you pretend that zealous promotion of birth control is anything but an issue trumpeted by the cosmopolitan left. You keep trying to pretend that blank slaters oppose birth control when it is the exact opposite. If anything you need to wake up and realize Margaret Sanger isn’t calling the shots anymore at Planned Parenthood. If you walked into Planned Parenthood and told them you were interested in volunteering in order to promote the use of Norplant to keep minority population figures depressed you would be escorted from the building. You are living in some kind of of 1920s time warp where birth control activism and birth rate suppression of non-white populations are linked. Do you follow the news? Have you noticed how the same people bellowing for free birth control are using Ferguson to whip up AA support and clamoring for amnesty.

  193. Steve, tell us more about that unsolicited Qatari offer.
    As a long time – and dare I say it, rather obsessive iStever, I’m intrigued about why the Qataris decided to ‘headhunt’ you, and what position they had in mind for you.

  194. In Connecticut it was until Griswold illegal to use BC. Quite a few states had similar legislation.

    And the law had dysgenic effects. Middle and upper-class women could pay high black market prices, or go to New York and stock up every few months. Lower class women lacked the resources to do so, or do so consistently.

    And today, Mississippi, where more than 70% of abortions are performed on black women, is in the process of shutting down the state’s only abortion clinic.

    Im simply not going to let you pretend that zealous promotion of birth control is anything but an issue trumpeted by the cosmopolitan left.

    The fact that they’re right for the wrong reason doesn’t change the fact they’re right. You’re sounding like someone who’s never had a regular sexual relationship with a woman of childbearing age.

    Women who are intelligent and plan their life more than a day or two ahead aren’t effected in their decision to use birth control or not by its “zealous promotion.” You also sound like someone without much experience around young women with sub-80 IQs. Encouraging responsible behavior requires consistent societal effort and encouragement.

    At any given time in America, there are MILLIONS of young women who do not have $20 to their name at the end of the month or pay cycle. Many don’t even have bank accounts of any sort. (Google “unbanked” for more information about how common this is and why). The poor judgment and inability to plan ahead and think about the future that got them into these circumstances will likewise cause them to forgo the expense of birth control if it is not subsidized or, better yet, completely free.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    At any given time in America, there are MILLIONS of young women who do not have $20 to their name at the end of the month or pay cycle. Many don’t even have bank accounts of any sort. (Google “unbanked” for more information about how common this is and why). The poor judgment and inability to plan ahead and think about the future that got them into these circumstances will likewise cause them to forgo the expense of birth control if it is not subsidized or, better yet, completely free.

    AMEN BROTHER !!!

    BC and Dope sick, or Dope and a bastard?

    That is dilemma for lots of underclass women. Unless you want their spawn raising hell in school with your kids, I say Norplant and Vasalgel.

    By the way, you are a distant relative of the "love child(joke)" of Margaret Sanger and Julius Rosenwald(Sanger's main financial support for her Harlem clinic)?
    , @Sam Haysom
    Basically you just conceded everything I wanted anti-Marxist to admit. I have taken no position on birth control I just don't like cranks trying to pretend that their hobby horse is some kind wrecking ball against cultural Marxism. I don't believe in sex outside of marriage so no I haven't, but your gay marriage mania suggests to me that most of your sexual partners maybe didn't need birth control.

    I guess what it comes down to is that I really don't think the lots and anti-Marxists of the word are smart enough enough to co-opt the well oiled machines of the cosmopolitan left. It's just strange to me that you guys can't understand how people would object to the subsidization of promiscuity. Even more so from guys who bitch and moan all the time about feminism. But again what I really oppose is the lie that birth control championing has ever been anything but the preserve of the left. Rather than do the hard work of rebuilding a culture you want feed the beast. That's fine but don't pretend you are anything other a defeatist.
  195. @gu
    He's referring to that Viking dude (Leif Erikson?) that first set foot on the New World almost half a century before Columbus.

    He’s referring to that Viking dude (Leif Erikson?) that first set foot on the New World almost half a century before Columbus.

    Not half a century, half a millennium.

  196. @Anonymous
    Golovkin is from Kazakhstan and is half-Korean. Stalin transferred a bunch of Koreans out of the Far East into Central Asia as a part of his population transfer policies.

    Stalin transferred a bunch of Koreans out of the Far East into Central Asia as a part of his population transfer policies.

    Very interesting info. That may partially explain why there are so many uber-mongoloids in Kazakhstan.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_Koreans_in_the_Soviet_Union

  197. @Steve Sailer
    I wonder if steroids has increased the amount of brain damage boxers do each other by letting them hit harder? Presumably you can strengthen your neck muscles as well to absorb some of the blows to the head better, but I think it's pretty likely overall that steroids have made boxing and football more dangerous.

    What's that French fighting sport featured in the first Robert Downey as Sherlock Holmes movie where they slap each other? Maybe that would be better for the steroid age?

    The main treason boxing have become so dangerous, is because of all the short term safety measures. Boxing gloves and helmets have made it possible to receive multiple blows to the head. In addition, before gloves, hitting the head was dangerous, as you could easily break your fingers.

    I suspect this is true in many areas of society, in that we now have so many safety measures, that the safety measures themselves now are the main cause of harm.

    • Replies: @Lurker

    I suspect this is true in many areas of society, in that we now have so many safety measures, that the safety measures themselves now are the main cause of harm.
     
    Ski boots . The modern ones are safer but when you do have a fracture the design leads to much more complicated and slower healing damage. Happened to someone I know.
  198. @Trumped
    "Kovalev fought a great fight, but Hopkins is nearly 50 years old."

    Yet the same "nearly 50 year old" has been dominating other black Americans at this weight class for years and years. At no point would Hopkins in his career ever have been able to defeat kovalev - the matchup style is just awful for him. Not to mention that literally half the boxing media picked Hopkins to win - suddenly age is an excuse after the fact I guess.

    If this were just a case of an old guy being beaten up, then all of the other young fighters like Adonis Stevenson would not be doing their best to avoid Kovalev. Hopkins was the only big name who would even take the fight against kovalev - no one else will get in with him or golovkin bc they know what will happen.

    “Kovalev fought a great fight, but Hopkins is nearly 50 years old.”

    Yet the same “nearly 50 year old” has been dominating other black Americans at this weight class for years and years.”

    Dude, you sound like a fool and you know nothing about boxing. Hopkins has not “dominated other black Americans, he lost easily to a prime Roy Jones, and has lost two to Chad Dawson, and two to Jermain Taylor in the last 5 years.

    The last three guys Hopkins fought were “white”, and his record over the last 9 year is 9-5-1.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    If you fight long enough, you are eventually going to get beaten. If the Kovalev fight ends up being Hopkins's last, he has nothing to be ashamed of. He went the distance with a knockout artist -- at nearly 50 years old.

    For years, Roy Jones Jr. looked unbeatable, and then he lost twice in a row to what's-his-name, who knocked him out early in the rematch. I bet if he fought Hopkins today, Hopkins would beat him.
  199. @Lot

    In Connecticut it was until Griswold illegal to use BC. Quite a few states had similar legislation.
     
    And the law had dysgenic effects. Middle and upper-class women could pay high black market prices, or go to New York and stock up every few months. Lower class women lacked the resources to do so, or do so consistently.

    And today, Mississippi, where more than 70% of abortions are performed on black women, is in the process of shutting down the state's only abortion clinic.


    Im simply not going to let you pretend that zealous promotion of birth control is anything but an issue trumpeted by the cosmopolitan left.
     
    The fact that they're right for the wrong reason doesn't change the fact they're right. You're sounding like someone who's never had a regular sexual relationship with a woman of childbearing age.

    Women who are intelligent and plan their life more than a day or two ahead aren't effected in their decision to use birth control or not by its "zealous promotion." You also sound like someone without much experience around young women with sub-80 IQs. Encouraging responsible behavior requires consistent societal effort and encouragement.

    At any given time in America, there are MILLIONS of young women who do not have $20 to their name at the end of the month or pay cycle. Many don't even have bank accounts of any sort. (Google "unbanked" for more information about how common this is and why). The poor judgment and inability to plan ahead and think about the future that got them into these circumstances will likewise cause them to forgo the expense of birth control if it is not subsidized or, better yet, completely free.

    At any given time in America, there are MILLIONS of young women who do not have $20 to their name at the end of the month or pay cycle. Many don’t even have bank accounts of any sort. (Google “unbanked” for more information about how common this is and why). The poor judgment and inability to plan ahead and think about the future that got them into these circumstances will likewise cause them to forgo the expense of birth control if it is not subsidized or, better yet, completely free.

    AMEN BROTHER !!!

    BC and Dope sick, or Dope and a bastard?

    That is dilemma for lots of underclass women. Unless you want their spawn raising hell in school with your kids, I say Norplant and Vasalgel.

    By the way, you are a distant relative of the “love child(joke)” of Margaret Sanger and Julius Rosenwald(Sanger’s main financial support for her Harlem clinic)?

  200. • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
    Hey, birth-control guys, you’re dragging down the quality of this comments section with your inane notion that birth-control was unknown/unpracticed/illegal in the US before 1965 or so when the Griswold decision came down.


    In 1965, Brown physician sparked furor over the Pill
    The controversy raged especially bitterly at Brown, which made international news on Sept. 28, 1965 when The Herald reported that Roswell Johnson, the University’s director of Health Services, had prescribed birth control pills to two engaged but unmarried students at Pembroke College

    Newspapers and wire services across the country picked up the story, which broke just a few months after another story involving contraception made headlines – that June, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down Connecticut’s ban on contraceptives in Griswold v. Connecticut.

    Johnson defended his decision, telling reporters then that both women involved were “mature people, already engaged, and they both had been referred to me by clergy” and that prescription of the pills was his own “private orientation” and not University policy. He also said he had thoroughly interviewed the women, who were both over 21, before he wrote the prescriptions. He also told reporters he would not have prescribed the pills without the consent of the students’ parents and without “a great deal of soul searching.”

    “I want to feel I’m contributing to a solid relationship and not contributing to unmitigated promiscuity,” he added.

    But public response to the University’s policy was overwhelmingly negative. On Oct. 20, the Arkansas Democrat published the findings of the latest Gallup poll in which three out of four adults said they disapproved of giving birth control pills to college students. The Democrat said the public’s objection centered on what it considered the “open invitation to immorality” implied by such a policy.

    Similarly, an Oct. 2 editorial in the West Central Tribune, a Minnesota newspaper, declared: “The fact that this particular college is taking action in this matter is a confession that there is a major moral problem at the school. Perhaps instead of easing the road for indulgence the college should instead as part of its work offer a course for all the students to take about morality, the sanctity of sex and try to clean up this looseness.” Even the Rev. Julius Scott Jr., the University’s chaplain, said he felt Johnson’s action “documents the moral ambiguity of the contemporary university campus.”
    , @dcite
    Not only condoms. Diaphrams were extremely common. I remember reading a book about college life in 40s/50s or so. Somewhat facetiously, the narrator said that there was so much hanky panky in the library stacks (I can say for sure this was somewhat of a joke) that no girl went to the library without wearing her diaphram. Still, if they wore them to the library, I'm pretty sure they'd wear them in more likely circumstances as well. If you read some of the more "adult" fiction of the early 20th century, such as Steinbeck, John O'Hara, and others, you find reference to birth control commonly used. In Anna Karenina (Tolstoy, late 1800s) Anna is amazed at the implication (by a savvy friend) that women with few children, might have deliberately contrived that happy situation. Anna had just thought they were lucky. Although some women may have wanted endless pregnancies, most would have opted for two or three and been just as happy. In her daily journal,the wife of the editor of Punch magazine worries that she might be pregnant. She already has two and that's enough. As it turns out, there were no more. Yet she herself came from a family of about 10. When I read bios of people in the 19th c., I am struck by how, at least among the more educated and better off, the v. large families end after about 1870. That is, people who marry in the 1870s, usually do not have the 8, 10, 12 or more, families so common earlier in the century, or in past centuries.
    , @dcite
    Not only condoms. Diaphrams were extremely common. I remember reading a book about college life in 40s/50s or so. Somewhat facetiously, the narrator said that there was so much hanky panky in the library stacks (I can say for sure this was somewhat of a joke) that no girl went to the library without wearing her diaphram. Still, if they wore them to the library, I'm pretty sure they'd wear them in more likely circumstances as well. If you read some of the more "adult" fiction of the early 20th century, such as Steinbeck, John O'Hara, and others, you find reference to birth control commonly used. In Anna Karenina (Tolstoy, late 1800s) Anna is amazed at the implication (by a savvy friend) that women with few children, might have deliberately contrived that happy situation. Anna had just thought they were lucky. Although some women may have wanted endless pregnancies, most would have opted for two or three and been just as happy. In her daily journal,the wife of the editor of Punch magazine worries that she might be pregnant. She already has two and that's enough. As it turns out, there were no more. Yet she herself came from a family of about 10. When I read bios of people in the 19th c., I am struck by how, at least among the more educated and better off, the v. large families end after about 1870. That is, people who marry in the 1870s, usually do not have the 8, 10, 12 or more, families so common earlier in the century, or in past centuries.
  201. @Veracitor

    Hey, birth-control guys, you’re dragging down the quality of this comments section with your inane notion that birth-control was unknown/unpracticed/illegal in the US before 1965 or so when the Griswold decision came down.

    In 1965, Brown physician sparked furor over the Pill
    The controversy raged especially bitterly at Brown, which made international news on Sept. 28, 1965 when The Herald reported that Roswell Johnson, the University’s director of Health Services, had prescribed birth control pills to two engaged but unmarried students at Pembroke College

    Newspapers and wire services across the country picked up the story, which broke just a few months after another story involving contraception made headlines – that June, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down Connecticut’s ban on contraceptives in Griswold v. Connecticut.

    Johnson defended his decision, telling reporters then that both women involved were “mature people, already engaged, and they both had been referred to me by clergy” and that prescription of the pills was his own “private orientation” and not University policy. He also said he had thoroughly interviewed the women, who were both over 21, before he wrote the prescriptions. He also told reporters he would not have prescribed the pills without the consent of the students’ parents and without “a great deal of soul searching.”

    “I want to feel I’m contributing to a solid relationship and not contributing to unmitigated promiscuity,” he added.

    But public response to the University’s policy was overwhelmingly negative. On Oct. 20, the Arkansas Democrat published the findings of the latest Gallup poll in which three out of four adults said they disapproved of giving birth control pills to college students. The Democrat said the public’s objection centered on what it considered the “open invitation to immorality” implied by such a policy.

    Similarly, an Oct. 2 editorial in the West Central Tribune, a Minnesota newspaper, declared: “The fact that this particular college is taking action in this matter is a confession that there is a major moral problem at the school. Perhaps instead of easing the road for indulgence the college should instead as part of its work offer a course for all the students to take about morality, the sanctity of sex and try to clean up this looseness.” Even the Rev. Julius Scott Jr., the University’s chaplain, said he felt Johnson’s action “documents the moral ambiguity of the contemporary university campus.”

  202. @Volksverhetzer
    The main treason boxing have become so dangerous, is because of all the short term safety measures. Boxing gloves and helmets have made it possible to receive multiple blows to the head. In addition, before gloves, hitting the head was dangerous, as you could easily break your fingers.

    I suspect this is true in many areas of society, in that we now have so many safety measures, that the safety measures themselves now are the main cause of harm.

    I suspect this is true in many areas of society, in that we now have so many safety measures, that the safety measures themselves now are the main cause of harm.

    Ski boots . The modern ones are safer but when you do have a fracture the design leads to much more complicated and slower healing damage. Happened to someone I know.

  203. @Lot

    In Connecticut it was until Griswold illegal to use BC. Quite a few states had similar legislation.
     
    And the law had dysgenic effects. Middle and upper-class women could pay high black market prices, or go to New York and stock up every few months. Lower class women lacked the resources to do so, or do so consistently.

    And today, Mississippi, where more than 70% of abortions are performed on black women, is in the process of shutting down the state's only abortion clinic.


    Im simply not going to let you pretend that zealous promotion of birth control is anything but an issue trumpeted by the cosmopolitan left.
     
    The fact that they're right for the wrong reason doesn't change the fact they're right. You're sounding like someone who's never had a regular sexual relationship with a woman of childbearing age.

    Women who are intelligent and plan their life more than a day or two ahead aren't effected in their decision to use birth control or not by its "zealous promotion." You also sound like someone without much experience around young women with sub-80 IQs. Encouraging responsible behavior requires consistent societal effort and encouragement.

    At any given time in America, there are MILLIONS of young women who do not have $20 to their name at the end of the month or pay cycle. Many don't even have bank accounts of any sort. (Google "unbanked" for more information about how common this is and why). The poor judgment and inability to plan ahead and think about the future that got them into these circumstances will likewise cause them to forgo the expense of birth control if it is not subsidized or, better yet, completely free.

    Basically you just conceded everything I wanted anti-Marxist to admit. I have taken no position on birth control I just don’t like cranks trying to pretend that their hobby horse is some kind wrecking ball against cultural Marxism. I don’t believe in sex outside of marriage so no I haven’t, but your gay marriage mania suggests to me that most of your sexual partners maybe didn’t need birth control.

    I guess what it comes down to is that I really don’t think the lots and anti-Marxists of the word are smart enough enough to co-opt the well oiled machines of the cosmopolitan left. It’s just strange to me that you guys can’t understand how people would object to the subsidization of promiscuity. Even more so from guys who bitch and moan all the time about feminism. But again what I really oppose is the lie that birth control championing has ever been anything but the preserve of the left. Rather than do the hard work of rebuilding a culture you want feed the beast. That’s fine but don’t pretend you are anything other a defeatist.

  204. @Steve Sailer
    "They’re also embarrassingly arguing that building sports stadiums is economic growth."

    I'm reminded of an Onion headline:

    "Study finds that 88% of soccer stadiums used for mass executions of dissidents"

    Western donors who had built a football ground for the Afghans when ruled by the Taliban were outraged when they hanged people from the goalposts. The Taliban retorted ‘ if you build us gallows we will use them!’

  205. Involuntary contraception is anathema across the political spectrum. Good luck selling it.

    Not selling it, buying it.

    Not involuntary, incentivized. The woman gets cash and free surgical service.

  206. I know Howard Zinn did not believe his BS either. In fact to anyone who would really listen, Zinn would tell you he knew he was lying through his teeth.

    Source/link, please.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    You can find any number of critical reviews of Howard Zinn's work that go into great detail as to Zinn's contempt for consensus history based on facts and peer review.

    Zinn was fond of saying he did not want his students to learn history but to make it. In Zinn view every student could grow up to be his own Che', Fidel, Lenin or Trotsky.
  207. @Truth

    “Kovalev fought a great fight, but Hopkins is nearly 50 years old.”

    Yet the same “nearly 50 year old” has been dominating other black Americans at this weight class for years and years."

     

    Dude, you sound like a fool and you know nothing about boxing. Hopkins has not "dominated other black Americans, he lost easily to a prime Roy Jones, and has lost two to Chad Dawson, and two to Jermain Taylor in the last 5 years.

    The last three guys Hopkins fought were "white", and his record over the last 9 year is 9-5-1.

    If you fight long enough, you are eventually going to get beaten. If the Kovalev fight ends up being Hopkins’s last, he has nothing to be ashamed of. He went the distance with a knockout artist — at nearly 50 years old.

    For years, Roy Jones Jr. looked unbeatable, and then he lost twice in a row to what’s-his-name, who knocked him out early in the rematch. I bet if he fought Hopkins today, Hopkins would beat him.

    • Replies: @Truth
    They did fight a rematch and Hopkins won, but both guys looked washed up. Hopkins has been a con-man, very good at promoting himself for a while. His last two title defenses have been against soft opposition and he really hasn't looked good in a fight since about 2009.

    That's not to say that Kovalev isn't a very good fighter because he is, probably top-10, but other than the fact that he is smart and can follow a game plan, this fight didn't say much about him.
  208. “I wonder if steroids has increased the amount of brain damage boxers do each other by letting them hit harder? Presumably you can strengthen your neck muscles as well to absorb some of the blows to the head better, but I think it’s pretty likely overall that steroids have made boxing and football more dangerous.”

    @ Steve sailer

    It is an interesting point for a number of reasons. On the pro side of the argument, fighters can now train much longer without their muscles breaking down and requiring rest. They also can easily add muscle and move up to higher weight classes (Holyfield, pacquio) while retaining the same technique, this making their punches harder.

    On the con side is the argument from the old time trainers who point out (correctly) that fighters of today are far too muscled up. Whatever short term gains in muscle are offset by not being in as good of shape as the old time boxers were, thus tiring much faster and being unable to throw as many punches. Most fighters today start breathing hard in the first few rounds while the days of Joe Louis and Marciano they would look fresh in round 15. The reason for this is that more muscle requires more oxygen – which is why fighters like Holyfield could only fight in spurts after he moved up to heavyweight.

    It is actually a very interesting argument. The best point those on the other side have is that increasing muscle and size may give one a higher weight class, but the chin is genetic and stays a weight class behind. Watching how horribly Roy jones jr was knocked out at 175 by a journeymen boxer named Glenn Johnson is a good example – especially when he looked unstoppable at 160 lbs. From all my years of training, I was always told that a chin is genetic and I never saw evidence to contradict it.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    I'm skeptical about the impact of steroids in boxing because, even if they are using steroids, the kind of lifting most boxers seem to do won't generate much increases in strength.

    I'm going by what I see on HBO's Boxing 24/7, its documentary series that follows boxers as they train for a big fight. The scenes in the weight rooms tend to show boxers doing stuff designed to mimic what they'd do in the ring, e.g., throwing an uppercut while holding a cable attached to a weight stack, or even holding one end of a barbell with the other end of it planted on the floor and pushing it back and forth in a punching motion. You can take steroids and do that stuff all day and you won't get much stronger. To get stronger, you need to lift progressively heavier weights using exercises that use a lot of musculature, preferably over full of motion: squats, bench presses, dead lifts, standing overhead presses.
  209. “Dude, you sound like a fool and you know nothing about boxing.”

    Have you trained a single day in your life? With a real boxing coach in a real gym? Get back to me when you have worked a few years with a world class fighter and they praise your skill and athletic level with unsolicited comments to strangers.

    “Hopkins has not “dominated other black Americans, he lost easily to a prime Roy Jones, and has lost two to Chad Dawson, and two to Jermain Taylor in the last 5 years.”

    Did you seriously just bring up a fight Hopkins had in 1993 with RJJ to talk about the Hopkins of the last few years?!?!? Hopkins destroyed the legit LHW champ in Tarver, defeated what most thought would be the next big thing in Pascal, defeated a past his prime RJJ in a rematch, got ripped off in both decisions against Taylor, destroyed kelly pavlik, and has fighters like Adonis Stevenson avoiding him in the last few years. Hopkins himself will tell you that he is a lot better fighter in his 40s than he was in his 30s bc his technique I proved so much and he was a late starter to boxing thanks to his prison stint. And he is right.

    The only fighters who had legit wins over him in the last decade were Calzaghe and Dawson who overwhelmed him with speed – and both were very fast by any standard. He only lost once to dawson – the other fight was overturned bc of the judo toss. Hopkins has the same speed and reflexes he has had in the last decade, but kovalev was just the worst possible matchup for him. I would actually favor Hopkins to win over any other major lhw right now not named Kovalev.

    • Replies: @Truth

    Have you trained a single day in your life? With a real boxing coach in a real gym? Get back to me when you have worked a few years with a world class fighter and they praise your skill and athletic level with unsolicited comments to strangers.
     
    LOL, this board gets better all the time! Well OK Angelo Dundee, good work with Ali, but you should know that Glen Johnson wasn't a "journeyman", he was the IBF Champion, and he and Roy Jones for for HIS titile, and that Jean Pascal is not an American, he's a Haitian who lives in Canada and that they had a draw in the first fight. But hey, with all of your accomplishments inside the ring. I guess you don't need to know boxing facts.

    And if Hopkins fights Stevenson I will bet you my mortgage on Adonis.
  210. @Trumped
    "I wonder if steroids has increased the amount of brain damage boxers do each other by letting them hit harder? Presumably you can strengthen your neck muscles as well to absorb some of the blows to the head better, but I think it’s pretty likely overall that steroids have made boxing and football more dangerous."

    @ Steve sailer

    It is an interesting point for a number of reasons. On the pro side of the argument, fighters can now train much longer without their muscles breaking down and requiring rest. They also can easily add muscle and move up to higher weight classes (Holyfield, pacquio) while retaining the same technique, this making their punches harder.

    On the con side is the argument from the old time trainers who point out (correctly) that fighters of today are far too muscled up. Whatever short term gains in muscle are offset by not being in as good of shape as the old time boxers were, thus tiring much faster and being unable to throw as many punches. Most fighters today start breathing hard in the first few rounds while the days of Joe Louis and Marciano they would look fresh in round 15. The reason for this is that more muscle requires more oxygen - which is why fighters like Holyfield could only fight in spurts after he moved up to heavyweight.

    It is actually a very interesting argument. The best point those on the other side have is that increasing muscle and size may give one a higher weight class, but the chin is genetic and stays a weight class behind. Watching how horribly Roy jones jr was knocked out at 175 by a journeymen boxer named Glenn Johnson is a good example - especially when he looked unstoppable at 160 lbs. From all my years of training, I was always told that a chin is genetic and I never saw evidence to contradict it.

    I’m skeptical about the impact of steroids in boxing because, even if they are using steroids, the kind of lifting most boxers seem to do won’t generate much increases in strength.

    I’m going by what I see on HBO’s Boxing 24/7, its documentary series that follows boxers as they train for a big fight. The scenes in the weight rooms tend to show boxers doing stuff designed to mimic what they’d do in the ring, e.g., throwing an uppercut while holding a cable attached to a weight stack, or even holding one end of a barbell with the other end of it planted on the floor and pushing it back and forth in a punching motion. You can take steroids and do that stuff all day and you won’t get much stronger. To get stronger, you need to lift progressively heavier weights using exercises that use a lot of musculature, preferably over full of motion: squats, bench presses, dead lifts, standing overhead presses.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Yes, but the big picture point is that steroids enables one to increase weights and lift even more than before. On the down side is the long term health arguments vs it.

    At the same time, let's not ignore the genetic component at work with the top 1% of professional athletes. 99% of legitimate athletes can train and train and train with all the right weights, putting Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000hrs of training into practice (literally) and it will still not do them any good so far as achieving their goal--winning at the highest levels of their individual sports.

    Let us not just limit the PED discussion to boxing. Let's have the honest conversation about other sports, including soccer. While retiring Landon Donnovan may have been clean what about Tim Howard, who looks progressively bulkier than say from five to seven years ago.

    Why would you and others automatically exempt such sports as soccer? Because they're automatically clean? Come come now. Last week the global badminton champion was busted for PEDS. Badminton! That's not a sport that's a hobby. And yet, for such a "sport", the champion was caught doing PEDS.

    In addition to boxing, both MMA and UFC should not automatically be given a pass. That is ludicrous. The things that they do in the cage, in the ring, to suggest that they never ever take PEDS of any kind? Totally asinine as well as ridiculous.

    What's the old saying, "If you aren't cheating, then you aren't trying." Perhaps they have a point after all.

    But if the badminton global champion can get busted with PED usage then I suggest that FIFA should look in their own backyard and attempt to clean it up; corrupt, greedy, and hardly the exemplar of honorable reputation of a sports organization that they are. And they are not. Corrupt to the core, is FIFA, corrupt to the core so we shouldn't be entirely surprised that many of its global stars are also doing PEDS.

    Or maybe the truth is too difficult to deal with. Going after easy targets like boxing might be all good and fine, but soccer? Then we'll see exactly who the deniers are as well as the tellers of truth for attempting to keep all sports relatively PED free.

  211. @Dave Pinsen
    If you fight long enough, you are eventually going to get beaten. If the Kovalev fight ends up being Hopkins's last, he has nothing to be ashamed of. He went the distance with a knockout artist -- at nearly 50 years old.

    For years, Roy Jones Jr. looked unbeatable, and then he lost twice in a row to what's-his-name, who knocked him out early in the rematch. I bet if he fought Hopkins today, Hopkins would beat him.

    They did fight a rematch and Hopkins won, but both guys looked washed up. Hopkins has been a con-man, very good at promoting himself for a while. His last two title defenses have been against soft opposition and he really hasn’t looked good in a fight since about 2009.

    That’s not to say that Kovalev isn’t a very good fighter because he is, probably top-10, but other than the fact that he is smart and can follow a game plan, this fight didn’t say much about him.

  212. Our efforts to make Iraq and Afghanistan more like the US were so successful, maybe it’s time for a new bold experiment.
    Indeed make US more like Qatar. Because after all, inside every American, there is a Qatarese trying to get out.

    Or me thinks the Proposition Nation just jumped the shark.

    Trans-nationalism! Tranny-nation! AmeriQatar.

  213. @Dave Pinsen
    I'm skeptical about the impact of steroids in boxing because, even if they are using steroids, the kind of lifting most boxers seem to do won't generate much increases in strength.

    I'm going by what I see on HBO's Boxing 24/7, its documentary series that follows boxers as they train for a big fight. The scenes in the weight rooms tend to show boxers doing stuff designed to mimic what they'd do in the ring, e.g., throwing an uppercut while holding a cable attached to a weight stack, or even holding one end of a barbell with the other end of it planted on the floor and pushing it back and forth in a punching motion. You can take steroids and do that stuff all day and you won't get much stronger. To get stronger, you need to lift progressively heavier weights using exercises that use a lot of musculature, preferably over full of motion: squats, bench presses, dead lifts, standing overhead presses.

    Yes, but the big picture point is that steroids enables one to increase weights and lift even more than before. On the down side is the long term health arguments vs it.

    At the same time, let’s not ignore the genetic component at work with the top 1% of professional athletes. 99% of legitimate athletes can train and train and train with all the right weights, putting Malcolm Gladwell’s 10,000hrs of training into practice (literally) and it will still not do them any good so far as achieving their goal–winning at the highest levels of their individual sports.

    Let us not just limit the PED discussion to boxing. Let’s have the honest conversation about other sports, including soccer. While retiring Landon Donnovan may have been clean what about Tim Howard, who looks progressively bulkier than say from five to seven years ago.

    Why would you and others automatically exempt such sports as soccer? Because they’re automatically clean? Come come now. Last week the global badminton champion was busted for PEDS. Badminton! That’s not a sport that’s a hobby. And yet, for such a “sport”, the champion was caught doing PEDS.

    In addition to boxing, both MMA and UFC should not automatically be given a pass. That is ludicrous. The things that they do in the cage, in the ring, to suggest that they never ever take PEDS of any kind? Totally asinine as well as ridiculous.

    What’s the old saying, “If you aren’t cheating, then you aren’t trying.” Perhaps they have a point after all.

    But if the badminton global champion can get busted with PED usage then I suggest that FIFA should look in their own backyard and attempt to clean it up; corrupt, greedy, and hardly the exemplar of honorable reputation of a sports organization that they are. And they are not. Corrupt to the core, is FIFA, corrupt to the core so we shouldn’t be entirely surprised that many of its global stars are also doing PEDS.

    Or maybe the truth is too difficult to deal with. Going after easy targets like boxing might be all good and fine, but soccer? Then we’ll see exactly who the deniers are as well as the tellers of truth for attempting to keep all sports relatively PED free.

  214. @Trumped
    "Dude, you sound like a fool and you know nothing about boxing."

    Have you trained a single day in your life? With a real boxing coach in a real gym? Get back to me when you have worked a few years with a world class fighter and they praise your skill and athletic level with unsolicited comments to strangers.

    "Hopkins has not “dominated other black Americans, he lost easily to a prime Roy Jones, and has lost two to Chad Dawson, and two to Jermain Taylor in the last 5 years."

    Did you seriously just bring up a fight Hopkins had in 1993 with RJJ to talk about the Hopkins of the last few years?!?!? Hopkins destroyed the legit LHW champ in Tarver, defeated what most thought would be the next big thing in Pascal, defeated a past his prime RJJ in a rematch, got ripped off in both decisions against Taylor, destroyed kelly pavlik, and has fighters like Adonis Stevenson avoiding him in the last few years. Hopkins himself will tell you that he is a lot better fighter in his 40s than he was in his 30s bc his technique I proved so much and he was a late starter to boxing thanks to his prison stint. And he is right.

    The only fighters who had legit wins over him in the last decade were Calzaghe and Dawson who overwhelmed him with speed - and both were very fast by any standard. He only lost once to dawson - the other fight was overturned bc of the judo toss. Hopkins has the same speed and reflexes he has had in the last decade, but kovalev was just the worst possible matchup for him. I would actually favor Hopkins to win over any other major lhw right now not named Kovalev.

    Have you trained a single day in your life? With a real boxing coach in a real gym? Get back to me when you have worked a few years with a world class fighter and they praise your skill and athletic level with unsolicited comments to strangers.

    LOL, this board gets better all the time! Well OK Angelo Dundee, good work with Ali, but you should know that Glen Johnson wasn’t a “journeyman”, he was the IBF Champion, and he and Roy Jones for for HIS titile, and that Jean Pascal is not an American, he’s a Haitian who lives in Canada and that they had a draw in the first fight. But hey, with all of your accomplishments inside the ring. I guess you don’t need to know boxing facts.

    And if Hopkins fights Stevenson I will bet you my mortgage on Adonis.

  215. Better cutters than Qatars.

  216. “Around the world, more than a billion people live on a dollar a day”

    are those people FORCED to buy health insurance or pay a heavy fine??? didn’t think so.

    when someone compares an Americans cost of living to those living in mud huts you know they have lost the argument.

  217. Speaking of Qatar, isn’t the 2022 World Cup going to be held there? Wonder how much the oil sheiks bribed ER paid the fee to outbid all other competitors.

    Also a prominent example of FIFA’s corruption (no, not talking about the fixed games down in Africa and parts of Asia with crooked referees), the Women’s World Cup next year is going to be played in Canada….on Artificial Turf.

    The Women’s National Teams from nearly all nations involved have filled a global lawsuit vs FIFA, and I can’t blame them. It is sexism, pure and simple. Every world cup going back to 1930 has been played on natural surface, grass. It is simply ridiculous to not afford the girls the same thing, especially since all of their previous WC’s have been played on grass surface.

    But oh no, FIFA’s not corrupt or never ever engages in questionable ethics. That’s reserved for those mean and nasty sports like boxing.

    Brazil just hosted the World Cup last summer; were all their games played on artificial turf? Were any of them?
    NO.

    All Canada would have to do is put down grass pits over the turf and the price is minimal. When Manchester United played Barcelona in a friendly a few yrs ago in Michigan’s football stadium, they put down real grass pits over the entire surface cause the players simply would’ve refused to play there if they didn’t comply.

    Corrupt, just corrupt. And they know it. Soccer’s meant for grass and nothing less.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Every world cup going back to 1930 has been played on natural surface, grass.
     
    Sand is just as natural as grass.

    And better, in one respect: it punishes the dives.
  218. “Antimarxist” is just another sperging atheist who thinks he’s too smart for religion and jerks off to dead German philosophers. He likely believes all morality is relevant and he should be able to do whatever he wants cause Ayn Rand and Nietzsche told him so in a wet dream that sexual taboos are for idiots.

    The boxing thing is something I noticed as well, that all of a sudden Mayweather’s weight class became the only thing anyone in MSM sports would talk about in any detail. People would not stfu about Hopkins before the fight, now you’ve got idiots like Truth posting from Gary, Indiana (ahaahsh Kuwait City Im sure buddy) saying OH WELL HE’S OLD since their magical negro got taken down.

    Different blog, same negro gameplan.

    • Replies: @Truth

    The boxing thing is something I noticed as well, that all of a sudden Mayweather’s weight class became the only thing anyone in MSM sports would talk about in any detail. People would not stfu about Hopkins before the fight, now you’ve got idiots like Truth posting from Gary, Indiana (ahaahsh Kuwait City Im sure buddy) saying OH WELL HE’S OLD since their magical negro got taken down.
     
    OK, another Einstein.

    Well, the boxing writers talk about Mayweather for the same reason they talked about Babe Ruth, Michael Jordan, Bill Russell, Wayne Gretzky, etc...

    BECAUSE HE'S THE BEST, DUMBSHIT, AND HE KEEPS WINNING. Really not extremely difficult to understand. Should they talk about a guy from Minnesota who is 11-16?

    And I said that Hopkins was old, because...try to understand this: HE IS! He SET A RECORD for being the oldest champ, that means, IT HADN'T BEEN DONE BEFORE.

    OK, so try to understand this: Phil Niekro was still a major league pitcher at 45, that does not mean that he was as good as he was a 35. Once again bro, not that complicated.
    , @anonymous-antimarxist
    No, I think Ayn Rand is a kooky cultist who in her own way wishes to destroy the accomplishments of Western Civilization.

    Lots of Catholics believe that abortion is a moral issue that has no remedy in positive law. For those who think abortion should be illegal then please specify how you want the laws enforced and what the penalties should. In reality few American Catholics want their country to be turned in to El Salvador.

    While I am not religious I am very far from a nihilist. Have you ever read for example The Moral Landscape by Sam Harris. Religion is not the only path towards having a strong sense that life has meaning and purpose, even spirituality in the sense that modern psychology defines it.
  219. An analogy to demonstrate how boxing screws itself up as a sport: imagine if the Superbowl didn’t happen every year. Denver wins the AFC championship last year, Seattle wins the NFC championship, and then they come up with reasons for never playing each other.

    That’s sort of like Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather not fighting each other. Imagine if there were one global, respected ranking organization that mandated they fight if they want to keep their belts/rankings? And there were a standard revenue split, say 60% to the champion, 40% to the challenger, or 60% to the higher ranked guy, 40% to the lower ranked guy? No endless, ad hoc, negotiations. And anyone who doesn’t fight the mandatory challenger 2x or 3x per year loses his belt or ranking. There’d be a financial incentive for the best fighters to fight each other, to fight relatively frequently, and to not duck challengers.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    That type of example occurred in 1904. The NL's Giants manager John McGraw refused to play the AL's Red Sox. The next year, 1905, he agreed to play the World Series vs Connie Mack's A's (and won the WS 4-1). The World Series would be played every year until 1994.

    Keep going after boxing for its alleged corruption and PEDS; after all, such sports as FIFA soccer are well above and beyond reproach as everyone appears to think.

  220. @Dave Pinsen
    An analogy to demonstrate how boxing screws itself up as a sport: imagine if the Superbowl didn't happen every year. Denver wins the AFC championship last year, Seattle wins the NFC championship, and then they come up with reasons for never playing each other.

    That's sort of like Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather not fighting each other. Imagine if there were one global, respected ranking organization that mandated they fight if they want to keep their belts/rankings? And there were a standard revenue split, say 60% to the champion, 40% to the challenger, or 60% to the higher ranked guy, 40% to the lower ranked guy? No endless, ad hoc, negotiations. And anyone who doesn't fight the mandatory challenger 2x or 3x per year loses his belt or ranking. There'd be a financial incentive for the best fighters to fight each other, to fight relatively frequently, and to not duck challengers.

    That type of example occurred in 1904. The NL’s Giants manager John McGraw refused to play the AL’s Red Sox. The next year, 1905, he agreed to play the World Series vs Connie Mack’s A’s (and won the WS 4-1). The World Series would be played every year until 1994.

    Keep going after boxing for its alleged corruption and PEDS; after all, such sports as FIFA soccer are well above and beyond reproach as everyone appears to think.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    PEDs don't lessen interest in a sport. Soccer is widely popular in part because the best teams regularly compete against each other.
  221. “LOL, this board gets better all the time! Well OK Angelo Dundee, good work with Ali, but you should know that Glen Johnson wasn’t a “journeyman”, he was the IBF Champion, and he and Roy Jones for for HIS titile, and that Jean Pascal is not an American, he’s a Haitian who lives in Canada and that they had a draw in the first fight. But hey, with all of your accomplishments inside the ring. I guess you don’t need to know boxing facts.”

    So that is a big “no” on ever training in boxing. I thought as much.

    If you are going to deny that Glenn Johnson was a journeymen when he fought RJJ then you are really clueless. I watched the fight live and no one was giving Johnson a chance at the time bc of his horrible record by top level boxing standards. Roy took the fight after his ko loss to Tarver bc he thought it would be an easy bounce back win. But stuff like that requires someone who at least watched the fights at the time instead of looking at Wikipedia for their boxing knowledge – sort of like saying Hopkins losing in 1993 has something to do with Hopkins in his 40s – LOL!

    Yes, pascal is not a black American – I also referenced Kelly pavlik, too bc I was bringing up what Hopkins has done in the last decade or so. Pascal was thought to be the future of the weigt class until Hopkins ruined him, just like pavlik. You clearly did not watch either fight Hopkins had with jermaine Taylor either to bring that up as a negative – in both fights Taylor was gassed out and just trying to survive in the last several rounds and won dubious decisions.

    By all means though, continue to argue about a subject you have zero experience or knowledge in! It reminds me of when media types argue with Steve sailer about IQ!

  222. @As If
    "Antimarxist" is just another sperging atheist who thinks he's too smart for religion and jerks off to dead German philosophers. He likely believes all morality is relevant and he should be able to do whatever he wants cause Ayn Rand and Nietzsche told him so in a wet dream that sexual taboos are for idiots.

    The boxing thing is something I noticed as well, that all of a sudden Mayweather's weight class became the only thing anyone in MSM sports would talk about in any detail. People would not stfu about Hopkins before the fight, now you've got idiots like Truth posting from Gary, Indiana (ahaahsh Kuwait City Im sure buddy) saying OH WELL HE'S OLD since their magical negro got taken down.

    Different blog, same negro gameplan.

    The boxing thing is something I noticed as well, that all of a sudden Mayweather’s weight class became the only thing anyone in MSM sports would talk about in any detail. People would not stfu about Hopkins before the fight, now you’ve got idiots like Truth posting from Gary, Indiana (ahaahsh Kuwait City Im sure buddy) saying OH WELL HE’S OLD since their magical negro got taken down.

    OK, another Einstein.

    Well, the boxing writers talk about Mayweather for the same reason they talked about Babe Ruth, Michael Jordan, Bill Russell, Wayne Gretzky, etc…

    BECAUSE HE’S THE BEST, DUMBSHIT, AND HE KEEPS WINNING. Really not extremely difficult to understand. Should they talk about a guy from Minnesota who is 11-16?

    And I said that Hopkins was old, because…try to understand this: HE IS! He SET A RECORD for being the oldest champ, that means, IT HADN’T BEEN DONE BEFORE.

    OK, so try to understand this: Phil Niekro was still a major league pitcher at 45, that does not mean that he was as good as he was a 35. Once again bro, not that complicated.

  223. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Number 161- sam haysom- “Basically you are a useful idiot.” As opposed to a useless idiot such as yourself? People on this blog make useful arguments rather than throw these sort of trite phrases around which seems to be your stock-in-trade. Certain commenters a person has to scroll past quickly, such as ted, bliss and haysom, since they’re usually just sub-literate scribbling.

  224. @As If
    "Antimarxist" is just another sperging atheist who thinks he's too smart for religion and jerks off to dead German philosophers. He likely believes all morality is relevant and he should be able to do whatever he wants cause Ayn Rand and Nietzsche told him so in a wet dream that sexual taboos are for idiots.

    The boxing thing is something I noticed as well, that all of a sudden Mayweather's weight class became the only thing anyone in MSM sports would talk about in any detail. People would not stfu about Hopkins before the fight, now you've got idiots like Truth posting from Gary, Indiana (ahaahsh Kuwait City Im sure buddy) saying OH WELL HE'S OLD since their magical negro got taken down.

    Different blog, same negro gameplan.

    No, I think Ayn Rand is a kooky cultist who in her own way wishes to destroy the accomplishments of Western Civilization.

    Lots of Catholics believe that abortion is a moral issue that has no remedy in positive law. For those who think abortion should be illegal then please specify how you want the laws enforced and what the penalties should. In reality few American Catholics want their country to be turned in to El Salvador.

    While I am not religious I am very far from a nihilist. Have you ever read for example The Moral Landscape by Sam Harris. Religion is not the only path towards having a strong sense that life has meaning and purpose, even spirituality in the sense that modern psychology defines it.

  225. @yaqub the mad scientist
    I know Howard Zinn did not believe his BS either. In fact to anyone who would really listen, Zinn would tell you he knew he was lying through his teeth.

    Source/link, please.

    You can find any number of critical reviews of Howard Zinn’s work that go into great detail as to Zinn’s contempt for consensus history based on facts and peer review.

    Zinn was fond of saying he did not want his students to learn history but to make it. In Zinn view every student could grow up to be his own Che’, Fidel, Lenin or Trotsky.

  226. FYI: Glenn Johnson had NINE losses when he fought Roy jones Jr – the very definition of a journeymen compared to someone like RJJ. People who don’t follow boxing like truth may not think that is many losses, but this is a sport where two or three losses can often relegate someone to “opponent” status and having to work their way back up when fighting a household name or current/recent legit world champ.

    The fact that you aren’t aware of this is exactly why you don’t need to try and act condescending when you clearly lack any sort of experience or basic knowledge of the sport.

    Your other post about Kovalev possibly being a top ten fighter and this fight not really showing anything special from him is beyond ignorant. The one and only area where the boxing media and American trainers thought Hopkins could win was in a slow, methodical boxing match. Instead, Hopkins looked terrible bc kovalev used much better footwork, feinting, punching while moving forward, out counter punching a master counter puncher, and controlling of the distance after combos to show a tremendously high level of boxing technique and skill.

    Roy Jones and Hopkins himself said as much after the fight and both seemed shocked – they had bought into the hype that kovalev just bullrushed forward and threw power shots. So in effect you are stating that Roy jones and Hopkins are wrong with their statements about kovalev’s technique and boxing skill – not to mention that they both said this is the best fighter in the world at 175.

    There is a reason Adonis Stevenson agreed to fight kovalev in principle, then backed out and signed with showtime immediately after kovalev signed with hbo. He has no chin, no footwork, no range, no jab, throws one punch at a time, has no defense, and barely gets past what should be easy opponents. He stutters and stammers when asked about kovalev, and does his best to change the subject. Stevenson has punching power and pretty much nothing else – he is actually what the American boxing media thought kovalev was.

  227. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    That type of example occurred in 1904. The NL's Giants manager John McGraw refused to play the AL's Red Sox. The next year, 1905, he agreed to play the World Series vs Connie Mack's A's (and won the WS 4-1). The World Series would be played every year until 1994.

    Keep going after boxing for its alleged corruption and PEDS; after all, such sports as FIFA soccer are well above and beyond reproach as everyone appears to think.

    PEDs don’t lessen interest in a sport. Soccer is widely popular in part because the best teams regularly compete against each other.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    You didn't answer my point, you avoided it. I am saying that soccer could credibly have a PED/Steroid problem and that the games global stars, some to many of them are on the juice. They're roiding up and it is naive to assume that Soccer is exempt from the PED problem that affects just about all team sports in the world.
  228. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Speaking of Qatar, isn't the 2022 World Cup going to be held there? Wonder how much the oil sheiks bribed ER paid the fee to outbid all other competitors.

    Also a prominent example of FIFA's corruption (no, not talking about the fixed games down in Africa and parts of Asia with crooked referees), the Women's World Cup next year is going to be played in Canada....on Artificial Turf.

    The Women's National Teams from nearly all nations involved have filled a global lawsuit vs FIFA, and I can't blame them. It is sexism, pure and simple. Every world cup going back to 1930 has been played on natural surface, grass. It is simply ridiculous to not afford the girls the same thing, especially since all of their previous WC's have been played on grass surface.

    But oh no, FIFA's not corrupt or never ever engages in questionable ethics. That's reserved for those mean and nasty sports like boxing.

    Brazil just hosted the World Cup last summer; were all their games played on artificial turf? Were any of them?
    NO.

    All Canada would have to do is put down grass pits over the turf and the price is minimal. When Manchester United played Barcelona in a friendly a few yrs ago in Michigan's football stadium, they put down real grass pits over the entire surface cause the players simply would've refused to play there if they didn't comply.

    Corrupt, just corrupt. And they know it. Soccer's meant for grass and nothing less.

    Every world cup going back to 1930 has been played on natural surface, grass.

    Sand is just as natural as grass.

    And better, in one respect: it punishes the dives.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Artificial turf isn't natural, DUH. It's Artificial. Also, all of FIFA's Men's World Cups have all been played on grass.

    This is an example of broken clock being right twice a day, this is one of those times.

    The case vs FIFA is clearly sexism on FIFAs part and it is entirely their fault. This is the 7th Women's WC played, and the previous six were all played on grass.

    Why artificial turf now? Why now? Doesn't make sense, doesn't add up.

    It's sexism. Let the girls play on grass for their WC. That's why FIFA's being sued.
  229. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Yes, Dock was on the '71 team and lost the WS opener to Baltimore. He often intimidated opposing batters by just, well, hitting them and sometimes in the face. He pitched his no-hitter in SD in '70 (June, I believe). Supposedly David Wells was either high or drunk when he pitched his perfect game back in the late 90s w/NY.

    During his single year for the Orioles, Reggie Jackson in '76 yelled out from the bench "Hey! Ellis! If you want to throw at somebody, try throwing at me!" And, Dock (then pitching for the Yankees) stepped up to the challenge and hit Reggie flush in the face. Jackson was out for a couple of weeks.

    Ok, would you please let it go regarding Amphetamines, commonly known as "Greenies"? They are NOT the same thing whatsoever. Greenies are basically equivalent to caffeine pills. If you take too many you're extremely wired but they won't enable you to hit 60, 70plus HRs per season.

    In his autobiography Jose Canseco makes clear that they simply don't hold a candle to the "real" thing, namely, steroids.

    Look at the bodybuilding world. You think that Arnold, Steve Reeves, Bill Perle etc got all bulked up cause of greenies? Honestly? They were juiced up, not greened up, come on! Greenies, compared to PEDS, don't hold a candle and there were no discernible effects in offensive totals which remained essentially the same during the several decades they were used.

    Greenies came into play during late 50s/60s and were seen as helping players deal with night game after day game and jetting from one city to another, time zones, etc. That was a fairly revolutionary break from the decades of train travel and playing all games during the day.

    Good lord, fans complaining about greenies. Maybe by 2040 we'll hear some of them exclaim, "You know MLBers taking steroids, this should stop about now!"

    They never did anything it was mostly psychological. And irrelevant. On this one I'll look to common sense and Jose Canseco's explanation: They don't hold a candle to PEDS for maximum productivity and you'd get the same effect by drinking ten cups of coffee or expresso before game time.

    Argue what greenies are with Jim Bouton and Jerry Kramer. Both wrote about their experiences over a particular season in the 60s, and both talk about greenies in pharmaceutical prescription terms. They were available in the college baseball clubhouse when my brother pitched for a top 20 program back in the 70s. They are a performance enhancer; as my friend who kept the season tickets for the Red Sox back when they were talking about PED use and amphetamines said, over the 162 games he wants to see guys awake and alert for his entertainment dollar. Over a 9-month season, one needs to be “up” for the game.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    There is no credible scientific evidence that amphetamines are PEDS. They are not in the same category.

    Barry Bonds, McGwire, Clemens set incredible MLB records and they were not taking greenies.

    Greenies = Tons of Caffeine pills and, you've basically just made my point. Awake and being alert you get the same effect from tons of coffee or now, some of those over-caffeinated energy drinks. You get the same effect.

    Uh, Jim Bouton took greenies post his arm troubles. How exactly did they turn out for him? Oh, that's right, ZIP. NADA. Bouton had 2 good seasons, burned out his arm and was never the same again. He was a bust as a player but found a second career as a wiseacre or an early version of humorist PJ O'Rourke. Both write in the same observational dry wit style.

    Barry Bonds, with Steroids, hit 763 HRS, OVER TWO HUNDRED OF THEM OVER A 6yr PERIOD AND....HE DID SO WITHOUT TAKING GREENIES. HOW DID HE DO THIS, AFTER AGE 35?????
    Steriods.

    I will take Hose Canseco, another premium MLBer who actually knew about greenies and PEDS.

    They are NOT PEDS they are NOT the same thing or even in the same category.

    Remember: MLB and other sports allow creatine, which is technically not a steroid but naturally affects the body in much the same way as PEDS. But, there is only one officially sanctioned MLB brand of creatine. Technically if a player used another brand of creatine, technically he could face a fine or suspension. That's about the money.

    But come on, grow up. Greenies NEVER made anyone hit 700HRS or 1,900RBIS or win 300 games. Greenies never enabled one to increase their performance compared to steroids.

    96 MVP winner SD Ken Caminitti. He put up incredible stats that year and had never done so previously. How'd he do so?
    Steroids.

    Compared to PEDS, Greenies are tinker toys. They don't do jack. You get the same alertness by drinking 5hr Energy or taking caffeine pills. Period.

    Steroids work. Canseco even stated that as soon as players saw the wide difference between the two, they ditched the greenies for something that worked, namely, steroids.

    Yeah, McGwire and Bonds got their mega contracts cause they were all greened up.

    Grow up.

  230. Actually, the TNR proposal is very close to the “guest worker” provision of the Gang of Eight Bill passed by all Senate Democrats (many of whom will no longer be in the Senate) and 1/3 of Senate Republicans, who regrettably will all still be there. Although the Bill’s amnesty attracted most attention, the “guest worker” provision was much more toxic. The Bill would have brought in up to 20 million low- skilled workers with a vague legal status, but no path to citizenship. (No immediate path, that is.) it was a strikebreaker’s dream.
    Chuck Schumer and Marco Rubio thought they could sneak it through with the mainstream press whining about the need for comprehensive immigration reform and Republican obstructionism.
    Want to try again in 2016 when turnout will be higher?

  231. Actually, the TNR proposal is very close to the “guest worker” provision of the Gang of Eight Bill passed by all Senate Democrats (many of whom will no longer be in the Senate) and 1/3 of Senate Republicans, who regrettably will all still be there. Although the Bill’s amnesty attracted most attention, the “guest worker” provision was much more toxic. The Bill would have brought in up to 20 million low- skilled workers with a vague legal status, but no path to citizenship. (No immediate path, that is.)
    Chuck Schumer and Marco Rubio thought they could sneak it through with the mainstream press whining about the need for comprehensive immigration reform and Republican obstructionism.
    Want to try again in 2016 when turnout will be higher?

  232. @Brutusale
    Argue what greenies are with Jim Bouton and Jerry Kramer. Both wrote about their experiences over a particular season in the 60s, and both talk about greenies in pharmaceutical prescription terms. They were available in the college baseball clubhouse when my brother pitched for a top 20 program back in the 70s. They are a performance enhancer; as my friend who kept the season tickets for the Red Sox back when they were talking about PED use and amphetamines said, over the 162 games he wants to see guys awake and alert for his entertainment dollar. Over a 9-month season, one needs to be "up" for the game.

    There is no credible scientific evidence that amphetamines are PEDS. They are not in the same category.

    Barry Bonds, McGwire, Clemens set incredible MLB records and they were not taking greenies.

    Greenies = Tons of Caffeine pills and, you’ve basically just made my point. Awake and being alert you get the same effect from tons of coffee or now, some of those over-caffeinated energy drinks. You get the same effect.

    Uh, Jim Bouton took greenies post his arm troubles. How exactly did they turn out for him? Oh, that’s right, ZIP. NADA. Bouton had 2 good seasons, burned out his arm and was never the same again. He was a bust as a player but found a second career as a wiseacre or an early version of humorist PJ O’Rourke. Both write in the same observational dry wit style.

    Barry Bonds, with Steroids, hit 763 HRS, OVER TWO HUNDRED OF THEM OVER A 6yr PERIOD AND….HE DID SO WITHOUT TAKING GREENIES. HOW DID HE DO THIS, AFTER AGE 35?????
    Steriods.

    I will take Hose Canseco, another premium MLBer who actually knew about greenies and PEDS.

    They are NOT PEDS they are NOT the same thing or even in the same category.

    Remember: MLB and other sports allow creatine, which is technically not a steroid but naturally affects the body in much the same way as PEDS. But, there is only one officially sanctioned MLB brand of creatine. Technically if a player used another brand of creatine, technically he could face a fine or suspension. That’s about the money.

    But come on, grow up. Greenies NEVER made anyone hit 700HRS or 1,900RBIS or win 300 games. Greenies never enabled one to increase their performance compared to steroids.

    96 MVP winner SD Ken Caminitti. He put up incredible stats that year and had never done so previously. How’d he do so?
    Steroids.

    Compared to PEDS, Greenies are tinker toys. They don’t do jack. You get the same alertness by drinking 5hr Energy or taking caffeine pills. Period.

    Steroids work. Canseco even stated that as soon as players saw the wide difference between the two, they ditched the greenies for something that worked, namely, steroids.

    Yeah, McGwire and Bonds got their mega contracts cause they were all greened up.

    Grow up.

  233. @Dave Pinsen
    PEDs don't lessen interest in a sport. Soccer is widely popular in part because the best teams regularly compete against each other.

    You didn’t answer my point, you avoided it. I am saying that soccer could credibly have a PED/Steroid problem and that the games global stars, some to many of them are on the juice. They’re roiding up and it is naive to assume that Soccer is exempt from the PED problem that affects just about all team sports in the world.

  234. @Reg Cæsar

    Every world cup going back to 1930 has been played on natural surface, grass.
     
    Sand is just as natural as grass.

    And better, in one respect: it punishes the dives.

    Artificial turf isn’t natural, DUH. It’s Artificial. Also, all of FIFA’s Men’s World Cups have all been played on grass.

    This is an example of broken clock being right twice a day, this is one of those times.

    The case vs FIFA is clearly sexism on FIFAs part and it is entirely their fault. This is the 7th Women’s WC played, and the previous six were all played on grass.

    Why artificial turf now? Why now? Doesn’t make sense, doesn’t add up.

    It’s sexism. Let the girls play on grass for their WC. That’s why FIFA’s being sued.

  235. Who cares about women’s soccer? I was referring to the real World Cup, in Qatar.

    They can play on natural sand. Or pound it.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Because there's an international lawsuit going on vs FIFA, that's why. It should help to expose the organizations overall corruption and ineptitude regarding such things as this.

    Qatar is in 2022, after Russias turn, which will also be played on grass. Trying to remember which club, but apparently Qatar or perhaps or one of the UAE owns Barcelona or Madrid FC and holds training camp there during part of they year. One of the soccer afficionados would probably know.

    Their venues will be played in grass. They may use slave labor to build the stadiums but they will be played on grass.
  236. @Reg Cæsar
    Who cares about women's soccer? I was referring to the real World Cup, in Qatar.

    They can play on natural sand. Or pound it.

    Because there’s an international lawsuit going on vs FIFA, that’s why. It should help to expose the organizations overall corruption and ineptitude regarding such things as this.

    Qatar is in 2022, after Russias turn, which will also be played on grass. Trying to remember which club, but apparently Qatar or perhaps or one of the UAE owns Barcelona or Madrid FC and holds training camp there during part of they year. One of the soccer afficionados would probably know.

    Their venues will be played in grass. They may use slave labor to build the stadiums but they will be played on grass.

  237. @Veracitor

    Not only condoms. Diaphrams were extremely common. I remember reading a book about college life in 40s/50s or so. Somewhat facetiously, the narrator said that there was so much hanky panky in the library stacks (I can say for sure this was somewhat of a joke) that no girl went to the library without wearing her diaphram. Still, if they wore them to the library, I’m pretty sure they’d wear them in more likely circumstances as well. If you read some of the more “adult” fiction of the early 20th century, such as Steinbeck, John O’Hara, and others, you find reference to birth control commonly used. In Anna Karenina (Tolstoy, late 1800s) Anna is amazed at the implication (by a savvy friend) that women with few children, might have deliberately contrived that happy situation. Anna had just thought they were lucky. Although some women may have wanted endless pregnancies, most would have opted for two or three and been just as happy. In her daily journal,the wife of the editor of Punch magazine worries that she might be pregnant. She already has two and that’s enough. As it turns out, there were no more. Yet she herself came from a family of about 10. When I read bios of people in the 19th c., I am struck by how, at least among the more educated and better off, the v. large families end after about 1870. That is, people who marry in the 1870s, usually do not have the 8, 10, 12 or more, families so common earlier in the century, or in past centuries.

  238. “hat is, people who marry in the 1870s, usually do have the 8, 10, 12 or more, families so common earlier in the century, or in past centuries.’

    I meant, “…usually do NOT have the 8, 10, 12 or more…”

  239. @Veracitor

    Not only condoms. Diaphrams were extremely common. I remember reading a book about college life in 40s/50s or so. Somewhat facetiously, the narrator said that there was so much hanky panky in the library stacks (I can say for sure this was somewhat of a joke) that no girl went to the library without wearing her diaphram. Still, if they wore them to the library, I’m pretty sure they’d wear them in more likely circumstances as well. If you read some of the more “adult” fiction of the early 20th century, such as Steinbeck, John O’Hara, and others, you find reference to birth control commonly used. In Anna Karenina (Tolstoy, late 1800s) Anna is amazed at the implication (by a savvy friend) that women with few children, might have deliberately contrived that happy situation. Anna had just thought they were lucky. Although some women may have wanted endless pregnancies, most would have opted for two or three and been just as happy. In her daily journal,the wife of the editor of Punch magazine worries that she might be pregnant. She already has two and that’s enough. As it turns out, there were no more. Yet she herself came from a family of about 10. When I read bios of people in the 19th c., I am struck by how, at least among the more educated and better off, the v. large families end after about 1870. That is, people who marry in the 1870s, usually do not have the 8, 10, 12 or more, families so common earlier in the century, or in past centuries.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Darwin had more children than grandchildren. Winston Churchill's famously amourous mother produced an heir and a spare but no more.
  240. @dcite
    Not only condoms. Diaphrams were extremely common. I remember reading a book about college life in 40s/50s or so. Somewhat facetiously, the narrator said that there was so much hanky panky in the library stacks (I can say for sure this was somewhat of a joke) that no girl went to the library without wearing her diaphram. Still, if they wore them to the library, I'm pretty sure they'd wear them in more likely circumstances as well. If you read some of the more "adult" fiction of the early 20th century, such as Steinbeck, John O'Hara, and others, you find reference to birth control commonly used. In Anna Karenina (Tolstoy, late 1800s) Anna is amazed at the implication (by a savvy friend) that women with few children, might have deliberately contrived that happy situation. Anna had just thought they were lucky. Although some women may have wanted endless pregnancies, most would have opted for two or three and been just as happy. In her daily journal,the wife of the editor of Punch magazine worries that she might be pregnant. She already has two and that's enough. As it turns out, there were no more. Yet she herself came from a family of about 10. When I read bios of people in the 19th c., I am struck by how, at least among the more educated and better off, the v. large families end after about 1870. That is, people who marry in the 1870s, usually do not have the 8, 10, 12 or more, families so common earlier in the century, or in past centuries.

    Darwin had more children than grandchildren. Winston Churchill’s famously amourous mother produced an heir and a spare but no more.

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