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The recovery of DNA from ancient skeletons has been happening over the last 15 years primarily in Europe, where the cool weather helps preserve old DNA. But now scientists have samples from 16 old dead bodies in Africa. Carl Zimmer writes in the New York Times:

Clues to Africa’s Mysterious Past Found in Ancient Skeletons
Carl Zimmer
MATTER SEPT. 21, 2017

… Previous studies of living East Africans had hinted at some Near Eastern ancestry. But the new analysis shows that people from the Near East spread into East Africa at least 3,100 years ago.

“This puts a time stamp on this connection,” said Pontus Skoglund, a postdoctoral researcher in Dr. Reich’s lab and co-author of the new study.

Near Eastern genes were also found in a skeleton from South Africa about 1,200 years old; according to the researchers, some living South Africans carry this DNA today.

In all, these genetic patterns suggest that early farmers or herders from the Near East swept down through Egypt into East Africa several thousand years ago. They then kept expanding over the centuries until their descendants reached the southern edge of the continent.

I haven’t read H. Rider Haggard’s 1888 adventure novel King Solomon’s Mines in a long time, but that sounds vaguely like state of the art anthropologizing 125 years ago about Nilotic sub-Saharans. Allan Quatermain travels north from eastern South Africa and discovers a fairly wealthy black civilization descended from the Queen of Sheba.

Around the same time, another expansion driven by agriculture was taking place in West Africa.

A people known as the Bantu spread from the region around present-day Cameroon and Nigeria. They left a trail of distinctive iron tools that archaeologists have used to trace their migration into southern and eastern Africa about 2,000 years ago.

Archaeologists have studied this expansion for decades to learn what happened as the Bantu arrived in other parts of the continent. The new genetic findings suggest that in some places, they may have pushed out the hunter-gatherers.

Up until 2,000 years ago, Dr. Thompson and her colleagues found, people in Malawi belonged to the same ancestral group as hunter-gatherers in southern Africa. “This was a hugely widespread population,” she said.

But something happened: Living Malawians have no genetic connection to those who lived there before. These ancient people must have disappeared virtually without descendants in Malawi.

It’s possible, Dr. Thompson said, that Bantu farmers drove hunter-gatherers out of places like Malawi. The surviving hunter-gatherers ended up in deserts and other places that weren’t good for crops and livestock.

In East Africa, the transition may not have been so stark. There, modern people can trace much of their ancestry to the Bantu, suggesting a blending of populations.

But some people also inherited a mix of other ancestries, including genes from the Near East and some from the ancient East African hunter-gatherers.

Once again, this is the old-fashioned anthropology you aren’t supposed to mention in contemporary Rwanda: the Nilotic Tutsis are (back) on top, the Bantu Hutu are back to hewing wood and drawing water, and there are still a few semi-pygmy Twa in the forests. (The relationship between Tutsis and Bantus in Rwanda are similar to the relationship between whites and Amerindians in, say, Mexico. In both countries, the ruling caste enforces an ideology denying what your lying eyes are telling you about who is in charge.)

The extremely tall woman is Rwandan President Paul Kagame’s daughter

Similarly, in the United States, the first sub-Saharan President was Nilotic rather than Bantu like the vast majority of African-Americans.

 
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  1. Thomas says:

    OT (or maybe not?): top of Drudge right now, apparently Obama isn’t doing enough for South Side blacks in the planning for his Presidential library. Wealth of Steve topics raised here. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/glanton/ct-obama-community-dahleen-glanton-met-20170921-column.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @Barnard
    I was just about to post that link, one of the more interesting quotes:

    "I don't believe he understands everything about black people," Smith said. "But he married a black woman from the South Side, and she feels our pain. Our pain is her pain."
     
    I guess not everyone on the South Side considers Barack Obama one of their own. I wonder how they will handle the promise of jobs to local residents while still keeping the library operational.
    , @Big Bill
    Obama ran for office against Bobby Rush and got his butt kicked. Folks in the ghetto did not want some hi-yalla, white-acting, college boy representing them.

    Obama had to move up north and live with the white folks in Hyde Park to get elected.

    And now the South Side Bantu think Obama owes them something? For what, exactly? They need to get off their butts and stop riding his coattails.
    , @Elli
    That Presidential Center looks like an Imperial Walker with its legs cut off.

    Needs some Ewoks.
    , @bomag

    Obama opened the door to the backlash when he appeared on a video at the foundation's first public meeting last week and said flat-out that there would be no community benefits agreement.
    ...Such a legal document, he said, would force the foundation to side with certain activist groups and leave others out. And, he added, it would open the door for other groups to step up and start making demands
     
    Gee, too bad while as president he didn't help the rest of us get some relief from all the various forms of "community benefits agreements" such as endless wars and importing welfare cases.
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  2. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/ValeriePlame/status/910914285311754240

    https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/910196143832825862
    , @Dan Hayes
    Anonymous:

    If this brouhaha doesn't bring The Unz Review to the internet world's attention then nothing will!
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  3. No, I’ve seen Hotel Rwanda and clearly the division and dissension between Tutsis and Hutus was a European colonialist divide-and-conquer plot.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rifleman

    Similarly, in the United States, the first sub-Saharan President was Nilotic rather than Bantu like the vast majority of African-Americans.
     
    No. And he looks nothing like his father and I checked the photos and his mother doesn't look remotely "Nilotic".
    , @Rifleman

    Archaeologists have studied this expansion for decades to learn what happened as the Bantu arrived in other parts of the continent. The new genetic findings suggest that in some places, they may have pushed out the hunter-gatherers.

    Up until 2,000 years ago, Dr. Thompson and her colleagues found, people in Malawi belonged to the same ancestral group as hunter-gatherers in southern Africa. “This was a hugely widespread population,” she said.
     
    Didn't Nelson Mandela look like he had some Bushman/Koisan ancestry?
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  4. inertial says:

    Here is a slightly politically incorrect illustration of Tutsi vs. Hutu vs. Twa.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    Did they change their name to Tutsi after this song came out?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=KO0-owOOnNw
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  5. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/ValeriePlame/status/910884546723196929

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    • Replies: @Thomas
    https://youtu.be/6MYAGyZlBY0
    , @El Dato

    without seeing and considering the rest.
     
    You were so strong. How could you fail so much in your woke-fu.
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  6. : are you implying that researchers may discover that ancient Africans mated with a species that may not have been totally human–cf Neanderthals?

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    • Replies: @ogunsiron
    I'm expecting that to come out of West Africa, more and more.
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  7. Achilles says:

    Once humans expanded out of Africa, there was little or no flow of genes between Africans and non-Africans for tens of thousands of years, the new study indicates.

    It’s a good thing evolution was suspended during this period, else biological differences might have arisen among these geographically-dispersed populations.

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    • LOL: ic1000
    • Replies: @ussr andy

    It’s a good thing evolution was suspended during this period
     
    just the brain's.
    , @James Bowery
    God suspended evolution in humans because God is Good and he saw the result would be racist.
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  8. Big Bill says:

    What’s the over/under for rehabilitating Joe McCarthy? Another year? Another two years?

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  9. Yan Shen says:

    Well I just beat Civilization 6 on deity mode while playing as Nubia, the latest civ released in the summer DLC. I was able to achieve a science victory on turn 296, which corresponds to 1846 AD. Setting up a Mars colony before the mid 19th century is quite an achievement! As was crushing all of the non-African civs I was up against and for a good part of the game being ahead in science and later culture.

    All in all a uh giant win for Africans!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    Ugh, sorry meant to say turn 294.
    , @bomag
    This explains a few things about you.
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  10. Achilles says:

    But Dr. Reich and his colleagues discovered that a 3,100-year-old girl in Tanzania was profoundly different from the older East Africans. A third of her ancestry could be traced to early farmers in the Near East.

    Were her grandparents the Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings of their day?

    Oops, check that, are we talking about Semites from the Near East? Then slavery could not be involved.

    Read More
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  11. Yan Shen says:
    @Yan Shen
    Well I just beat Civilization 6 on deity mode while playing as Nubia, the latest civ released in the summer DLC. I was able to achieve a science victory on turn 296, which corresponds to 1846 AD. Setting up a Mars colony before the mid 19th century is quite an achievement! As was crushing all of the non-African civs I was up against and for a good part of the game being ahead in science and later culture.

    All in all a uh giant win for Africans!

    Ugh, sorry meant to say turn 294.

    Read More
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  12. Barnard says:
    @Thomas
    OT (or maybe not?): top of Drudge right now, apparently Obama isn't doing enough for South Side blacks in the planning for his Presidential library. Wealth of Steve topics raised here. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/glanton/ct-obama-community-dahleen-glanton-met-20170921-column.html

    I was just about to post that link, one of the more interesting quotes:

    “I don’t believe he understands everything about black people,” Smith said. “But he married a black woman from the South Side, and she feels our pain. Our pain is her pain.”

    I guess not everyone on the South Side considers Barack Obama one of their own. I wonder how they will handle the promise of jobs to local residents while still keeping the library operational.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achilles

    I wonder how they will handle the promise of jobs to local residents while still keeping the library operational.
     
    Did you not read to the end of the article?

    All written materials curated by the library will be housed in an annex on the main campus of the University of Chicago where they can be accessed by historians and scholars.

    The Jackson Park location will contain only audio-visual presentations.

    In one panel, a Michael Brown figure will be depicted on his knees, his hands up with palms facing God, pleading for cosmic justice for the black race, while a white policeman guns him down. A looped sound track will feature the wailings of African-American women.

    Other panels will include among other scenes the shooting by a white man of a small hooded black child holding a bag of skittles and atrocities inflicted on Muslims by Christians during the Crusades.
     

    , @Diversity Heretic
    I don't think theft of books is likely to be a problem.
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  13. Ben Kurtz says: • Website

    Why does Ugandan President Kagame have a nicely pressed fresh suit, while U.S. President Obama is wearing a shabby, wrinkled jacket? Who allowed him to be photographed in that state? It’s embarrassing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Are they in Rwanda? Maybe Obama just got off a plane. Still, you;'d think he could change into a fresh suit just before landing; Air Force One is pretty fancy like that.
    , @Garymc
    It's not the jacket, it's just empty.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    And who put the First Lady in a dress that makes her look like a chocolate destined for an Easter basket?

    Kagame's daughter isn't a great beauty but she's got a body and a dress to match it.

    First couple, upstaged.
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  14. Dan Hayes says:
    @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/ValeriePlame/status/910884546723196929

    Anonymous:

    If this brouhaha doesn’t bring The Unz Review to the internet world’s attention then nothing will!

    Read More
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  15. Thomas says:
    @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/ValeriePlame/status/910914285311754240

    https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/910196143832825862

    Read More
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  16. neutral says:

    That South African skeleton from the Near East is interesting, I am certainly not an expert on this matter but based on my perceptions there are no Nilotic people in South Africa, except for the very recent immigrants.

    The South African black population is Bantu descended, if the Nilotic people made it all the way here then perhaps the Lemba people might be derived from them. They practice some jewish like customs but they look like Bantus and speak Bantu type languages, there are not many Lembas though. If Nilotic people did make get to the very south of Africa then they must have been very few and they obviously did not become the rulers of the land.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jm8
    Nilotic people—like the Dinka, Shilluk, Luo, Nuer, etc (and other Nilo Saharans like the Fur—Nilotic is a branch of the Nilo Saharan ethno-linguistic/language family) are not the ones with the Near Eastern/Eurasian admixture (That would be more the Cushitic peoples who came from the horn of Africa). Nilotics usually have none or very little non-subsaharan ancestry.They (Nilo-Saharans) are a group native to Eastern subsaharan Africa, whose core original homeland is believed to be around south and central Sudan and Chad (and some tribes expanded into Kenya, South Ethiopia and parts of the Uganda/Rwanda region).

    (One other main language family in Africa is Niger-Congo, based in West Africa. Bantu languages are a small and relatively recent offshoot/part of Niger-Congo that came from between West And Central Africa and spread south and east from there—most Niger-Congo languages belong to branches other than Bantu.)

    The people with some admixture are mostly people from the horn of Africa (around Ethiopia and Somalia) who speak Cushitic languages. They (Cushitic people/horn Africans are a mix of an ancient indigenous local types of subsaharan African (the majority of their ancestry, but the amount varies by tribe and location) and those people from the middle east who came a few thousand years ago. Cushitic peoples in South Ethiopia have even less mid. Eastern ancestry. but they have a little and they were once extended further south where they mixed further with some of the native hunter gatherer groups native to coastal East Africa along the way. Then the descendants of some of those those people with remote Cushitic ancestry eventually mixed with some of the Khoisan tribes in Southern Africa and introduced cattle herding to a few of them and contributed a small fraction of their ancestry to them (some, especially the cattle herding ones like the Khoi Khoi still have a small amount). That is likely the source of the "Middle Eastern genes" in the skeleton from South Africa were likely from that source, but the skeleton was not a middle Easterner but likely a native with a tiny bit of very remote Mid Eastern ancestry (from admixed-part Cushitic people who mixed with their ancestors).

    (The Tutsi are not a Nilotic ethnic group. They do have a mix of Bantu, Nilotic and Cushitic ancestry—some of their ancestors were Nilotic and Cushitic. But they speak a Bantu language and the dna evidence suggest that their ancestry tends to be largely Bantu)

    The Lemba are mostly Bantu people whose ancestors may have at some point mixed a bit (much more recently) with Jewish (or more likely Arab) groups (that would be separate and a lot later than the coming of the more ancient Mid-Eastern ancestors of Horn Africans).

    , @Jm8
    Nilotic people—like the Dinka, Shilluk, Luo, Nuer, etc (and other Nilo Saharans like the Fur—Nilotic is a branch of the Nilo Saharan ethno-linguistic/language family) are not the ones with the Near Eastern/Eurasian admixture (That would be more the Cushitic peoples who came from the horn of Africa). Nilotics usually have none or very little non-subsaharan ancestry.They (Nilo-Saharans) are a group native to Eastern subsaharan Africa, whose core original homeland is believed to be around south and central Sudan and Chad (and some tribes expanded into Kenya, South Ethiopia and parts of the Uganda/Rwanda region).

    (One other main language family in Africa is Niger-Congo, based in West Africa. Bantu languages are a small and relatively recent offshoot/part of Niger-Congo that came from between West And Central Africa and spread south and east from there—most Niger-Congo languages belong to branches other than Bantu.)

    The people with some admixture are mostly people from the horn of Africa (around Ethiopia and Somalia) who speak Cushitic languages. They (Cushitic people/horn Africans are a mix of an ancient indigenous local types of subsaharan African (the majority of their ancestry but varying by tribe) and those people from the middle east who came a few thousand years ago. Cushitic peoples in South Ethiopia have even less mid. Eastern ancestry. but they have a little and they were once extended further south where they mixed further with some of the native hunter gatherer groups native to coastal East Africa along the way. Then the descendants of some of those those people with remote Cushitic ancestry eventually mixed with some of the Khoisan tribes in Southern Africa and introduced cattle herding to a few of them and contributed a small fraction of their ancestry to them (some, especially the cattle herding ones like the Khoi Khoi still have a small amount). That is likely the source of the "Middle Eastern genes" in the skeleton from South Africa were likely from that source, but the skeleton was not a middle Easterner but likely a native with a tiny bit of very remote Mid Eastern ancestry (from admixed-part Cushitic people who mixed with their ancestors).

    (The Tutsi are not a Nilotic ethnic group. They do have a mix of Bantu, Nilotic and Cushitic ancestry—some of their ancestors were Nilotic and Cushitic. But they speak a Bantu language and the dna evidence suggest that their ancestry tends to be largely Bantu)

    The Lemba are mostly Bantu people whose ancestors may have at some point mixed a bit (much more recently) with Jewish (or more likely Arab) groups (that would be separate and a lot later than the coming of the more ancient Mid-Eastern ancestors of Horn Africans).
    , @Anon

    They practice some jewish like customs but they look like Bantus
     
    So they clip coins and set up payday loan businesses as well? :)
    , @Eagle Eye
    Here is what they don't want you to notice:

    Ethiopians and other Horn of Africa populations are vastly different from the rest of Africa due to (1) two-way traffic to the Arabian peninsula (they speak Semitic languages) and (2) much reduced interchange with the rest of sub-Saharan Africa due to topography.

    Tutsi and other Nilotic peoples appear to share some features with Horn of Africa populations, especially high, narrow noses.
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  17. syonredux says:

    But something happened: Living Malawians have no genetic connection to those who lived there before. These ancient people must have disappeared virtually without descendants in Malawi.

    It’s possible, Dr. Thompson said, that Bantu farmers drove hunter-gatherers out of places like Malawi. The surviving hunter-gatherers ended up in deserts and other places that weren’t good for crops and livestock.

    Dear me, that sounds rather like “ethnic cleansing”…………

    Read More
    • Replies: @Moses
    Seems the Bantu didn't know that diversity (i.e. fewer Bantu) is a strength.

    Imagine the heights they could have scaled if they had kept down their numbers!
    , @Thirdeye
    Kind of like the demographic event in North America circa 7k b.p., when the Australoid inhabitants (Kennewick Man and such) got displaced to a few isolated refugia around the west coast, and south of the Sonoran Desert, by the Beringia migrants. But it's politically incorrect to acknowledge that.
    , @Bill
    Did Bill Clinton apologize for doing nothing?
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  18. Achilles says:
    @Barnard
    I was just about to post that link, one of the more interesting quotes:

    "I don't believe he understands everything about black people," Smith said. "But he married a black woman from the South Side, and she feels our pain. Our pain is her pain."
     
    I guess not everyone on the South Side considers Barack Obama one of their own. I wonder how they will handle the promise of jobs to local residents while still keeping the library operational.

    I wonder how they will handle the promise of jobs to local residents while still keeping the library operational.

    Did you not read to the end of the article?

    All written materials curated by the library will be housed in an annex on the main campus of the University of Chicago where they can be accessed by historians and scholars.

    The Jackson Park location will contain only audio-visual presentations.

    In one panel, a Michael Brown figure will be depicted on his knees, his hands up with palms facing God, pleading for cosmic justice for the black race, while a white policeman guns him down. A looped sound track will feature the wailings of African-American women.

    Other panels will include among other scenes the shooting by a white man of a small hooded black child holding a bag of skittles and atrocities inflicted on Muslims by Christians during the Crusades.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pericles

    All written materials curated by the library will be housed in an annex on the main campus of the University of Chicago where they can be accessed by historians and scholars.

    The Jackson Park location will contain only audio-visual presentations.

     

    After reading some paean to the leaden TV comedy of today, now that's funny. Which site will get the Genius T. Coates material though?
    , @International Jew

    Other panels will include among other scenes the shooting by a white man of a small hooded black child
     
    That's your joke, right?
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  19. Big Bill says:
    @Thomas
    OT (or maybe not?): top of Drudge right now, apparently Obama isn't doing enough for South Side blacks in the planning for his Presidential library. Wealth of Steve topics raised here. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/glanton/ct-obama-community-dahleen-glanton-met-20170921-column.html

    Obama ran for office against Bobby Rush and got his butt kicked. Folks in the ghetto did not want some hi-yalla, white-acting, college boy representing them.

    Obama had to move up north and live with the white folks in Hyde Park to get elected.

    And now the South Side Bantu think Obama owes them something? For what, exactly? They need to get off their butts and stop riding his coattails.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pericles
    It seems you don't understand black people.
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  20. Paul Kagame is the President of Rwanda, not Uganda as the captioned photo incorrectly states. Also, his daughters first name is Ange, not Anne. Otherwise, a very interesting photo of a true Tutsi.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ogunsiron
    Kagame is pretty much the ideal form of "Tutsi"
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  21. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    But Obama’s pappy looks totally Bantu.

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  22. BRF says:

    Steve, you mean Rwandan President’s daughter.

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  23. Correction: Kagame is president of Rwanda, not Uganda.

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  24. @inertial
    Here is a slightly politically incorrect illustration of Tutsi vs. Hutu vs. Twa.

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.timetoast.com/public/uploads/photos/4339650/quadro_etnico_tutsi_hutu_twa.jpg

    Did they change their name to Tutsi after this song came out?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thirdeye
    The world needs more musical groups named after synthetic fabrics.
    , @DRA
    The "Wa" part of Watusi means "people" See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabenzi
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  25. Moses says:
    @syonredux

    But something happened: Living Malawians have no genetic connection to those who lived there before. These ancient people must have disappeared virtually without descendants in Malawi.

    It’s possible, Dr. Thompson said, that Bantu farmers drove hunter-gatherers out of places like Malawi. The surviving hunter-gatherers ended up in deserts and other places that weren’t good for crops and livestock.
     
    Dear me, that sounds rather like "ethnic cleansing"............

    Seems the Bantu didn’t know that diversity (i.e. fewer Bantu) is a strength.

    Imagine the heights they could have scaled if they had kept down their numbers!

    Read More
    • Replies: @DRA
    The "Wa" part of Watusi means people. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabenzi
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  26. Can you just imagine the depravity of inviting these people into your country?

    Family caught carrying ‘bag of mosquitoes’ into Peshawar hospital
    Ali AkbarUpdated September 20, 2017
    1742
    60
    A family in Peshawar was temporarily apprehended by staff at the Hayatabad Medical Complex in Peshawar on September 18 for possessing a bag containing mosquitoes suspected to be carriers of a lethal disease, the director of the hospital, Dr Shahzad Akbar, told DawnNews on Wednesday.

    One of the mosquitoes within the plastic bag held up for examination. ? Photo by author
    One of the mosquitoes within the plastic bag held up for examination. ? Photo by author
    A man, his wife, son and daughter, all residents of Peshawar’s Pishtakhara area, told the security guard at the hospital that they had been promised payment for letting the virus-spreading mosquitoes loose in the hospital, according to Dr Akbar.

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1358911/family-caught-carrying-bag-of-mosquitoes-into-peshawar-hospital

    Read More
    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    Can you just imagine the depravity of inviting these people into your country?
     
    The assumption is that you wouldn't be inviting these specific people, any more than you would be inviting a notorious criminal from any other country.
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  27. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I don't blame the parents for their foolish assumption that hiring a black nanny would be as safe for their kid as a white one, as much as I blame the liberal media machine who taught them the lie all their life.
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  28. Elli says:
    @Thomas
    OT (or maybe not?): top of Drudge right now, apparently Obama isn't doing enough for South Side blacks in the planning for his Presidential library. Wealth of Steve topics raised here. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/glanton/ct-obama-community-dahleen-glanton-met-20170921-column.html

    That Presidential Center looks like an Imperial Walker with its legs cut off.

    Needs some Ewoks.

    Read More
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  29. @Ben Kurtz
    Why does Ugandan President Kagame have a nicely pressed fresh suit, while U.S. President Obama is wearing a shabby, wrinkled jacket? Who allowed him to be photographed in that state? It's embarrassing.

    Are they in Rwanda? Maybe Obama just got off a plane. Still, you;’d think he could change into a fresh suit just before landing; Air Force One is pretty fancy like that.

    Read More
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  30. Thirdeye says:
    @syonredux

    But something happened: Living Malawians have no genetic connection to those who lived there before. These ancient people must have disappeared virtually without descendants in Malawi.

    It’s possible, Dr. Thompson said, that Bantu farmers drove hunter-gatherers out of places like Malawi. The surviving hunter-gatherers ended up in deserts and other places that weren’t good for crops and livestock.
     
    Dear me, that sounds rather like "ethnic cleansing"............

    Kind of like the demographic event in North America circa 7k b.p., when the Australoid inhabitants (Kennewick Man and such) got displaced to a few isolated refugia around the west coast, and south of the Sonoran Desert, by the Beringia migrants. But it’s politically incorrect to acknowledge that.

    Read More
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  31. Thirdeye says:
    @SteveRogers42
    Did they change their name to Tutsi after this song came out?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=KO0-owOOnNw

    The world needs more musical groups named after synthetic fabrics.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Johan Schmidt
    Then you'll love my new punk band, "No Blood for Voile".
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  32. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    That Giraldi article with the inflammatory headline should’ve discussed the Tribe’s role in wars outside the middle east. Can’t believe there is no mention of Russia/Ukraine.

    Read More
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  33. Trelane says:

    I wonder where these came from? Eight hundred thousand-year-old human footprints in Happisburgh, England.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    Homo Sapiens didn't exist 800,000 years ago. Jesus man!
    , @Expletive Deleted
    Mmm .. feet. Me gusta!
    http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/anthropology/trachilos-hominin-like-footprints-05185.html
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  34. “Similarly, in the United States, the first sub-Saharan President was Nilotic rather than Bantu like the vast majority of African-Americans.”

    I fail to understand the point being made here?

    He was President because the stars lined up for him. But if one were to make a list of greatest African-Americans, I’m pretty sure, Bantus like MLK and Frederick Douglass would outrank him.

    Further, in Kenya, the “Nilotic” Luo are the hewers of wood vis a vis the Bantu Kikuyu. Further, you might recall the “Afroasiatic” regions as the poster children for the Africa is starving campaigns of the Noughties. The Bantu nations are richer in contemporary day Africa, with Bantu Botswana, in particular, a highlight. “Nambia”, as President Trump tells us has universal healthcare.

    In conclusion, in America, Bantu Nigerians are the achievers, while the Afro-Asiatic Eritreans aren’t.

    So many questions… Or we can just admit that this exercises while amusing fall apart when structural differences are taken into account.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Did you really just use the words Bantu Nigerian achievers all in the same sentence?
    , @Nico

    He was President because the stars lined up for him. But if one were to make a list of greatest African-Americans, I’m pretty sure, Bantus like MLK and Frederick Douglass would outrank him.
     
    When American historians list the "greatest American" anything, their criteria are far from neutral.

    For the kill, both Douglass and MLK were technically mixed race, not strictly Bantu.
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  35. @Trelane
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/news/photos/000/764/76414.adapt.536.1.jpg

    I wonder where these came from? Eight hundred thousand-year-old human footprints in Happisburgh, England.

    Homo Sapiens didn’t exist 800,000 years ago. Jesus man!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Trelane

    Homo Sapiens didn’t exist 800,000 years ago.
     
    Archaic humans who left footprints did exist then. They lived and evolved in Europe through at least 10 glaciations and interglacials. They may actually be some of your ancestors Mr Nigerian Nationalist.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    http://britishmuseum.org/research/research_projects/all_current_projects/featured_project_happisburgh/happisburgh_footprints.aspx

    "So who were they? Unfortunately there are no human bones from Britain of this age, but the most likely candidate is Homo antecessor or ‘Pioneer Man’. Bones of this early human species have been found at the contemporary site of Atapuerca in northern Spain. The importance of the Happisburgh footprints is the very tangible link they give to our forebears from the deep past."
    , @Nigerian Nationalist
    Again, that doesn't counteract my point. Homo Sapiens did not exist 800,000 years ago.
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  36. ogunsiron says:
    @Meretricious
    @Steve Sailer: are you implying that researchers may discover that ancient Africans mated with a species that may not have been totally human--cf Neanderthals?

    I’m expecting that to come out of West Africa, more and more.

    Read More
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  37. ogunsiron says:
    @Anon Trout
    Paul Kagame is the President of Rwanda, not Uganda as the captioned photo incorrectly states. Also, his daughters first name is Ange, not Anne. Otherwise, a very interesting photo of a true Tutsi.

    Kagame is pretty much the ideal form of “Tutsi”

    Read More
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  38. As always, the lede is buried. From the paper:

    The possible basal western African population lineage would represent the earliest known divergence of a modern human lineage that contributed a major proportion of ancestry to present-day humans. Such a lineage must have separated before the divergence of San ancestors, which is estimated to have begun on the order of 200–300 thousand years ago (Scally and Durbin, 2012). Such a model of basal western African ancestry might support the hypothesis that there has been ancient structure in the ancestry of present-day Africans, using a line of evidence independent from previous findings based on long haplotypes with deep divergences from other human haplotypes (Hammer et al., 2011, Lachance et al., 2012, Plagnol and Wall, 2006).

    Hm. You know… there’s a word for those of us who have long suspected “ancient structure in the ancestry of present-day Africans…”

    The previous paper on this subject also has a chart that’s… rather striking…

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/06/05/145409

    Read More
    • Replies: @O'Really
    which chart? can you be more explicit about what you are getting at?
    , @helena
    Bantu are descended from a population that separated off before San? That's a new one! Seems the story never stays the same for long.
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  39. Jm8 says:
    @neutral
    That South African skeleton from the Near East is interesting, I am certainly not an expert on this matter but based on my perceptions there are no Nilotic people in South Africa, except for the very recent immigrants.

    The South African black population is Bantu descended, if the Nilotic people made it all the way here then perhaps the Lemba people might be derived from them. They practice some jewish like customs but they look like Bantus and speak Bantu type languages, there are not many Lembas though. If Nilotic people did make get to the very south of Africa then they must have been very few and they obviously did not become the rulers of the land.

    Nilotic people—like the Dinka, Shilluk, Luo, Nuer, etc (and other Nilo Saharans like the Fur—Nilotic is a branch of the Nilo Saharan ethno-linguistic/language family) are not the ones with the Near Eastern/Eurasian admixture (That would be more the Cushitic peoples who came from the horn of Africa). Nilotics usually have none or very little non-subsaharan ancestry.They (Nilo-Saharans) are a group native to Eastern subsaharan Africa, whose core original homeland is believed to be around south and central Sudan and Chad (and some tribes expanded into Kenya, South Ethiopia and parts of the Uganda/Rwanda region).

    (One other main language family in Africa is Niger-Congo, based in West Africa. Bantu languages are a small and relatively recent offshoot/part of Niger-Congo that came from between West And Central Africa and spread south and east from there—most Niger-Congo languages belong to branches other than Bantu.)

    The people with some admixture are mostly people from the horn of Africa (around Ethiopia and Somalia) who speak Cushitic languages. They (Cushitic people/horn Africans are a mix of an ancient indigenous local types of subsaharan African (the majority of their ancestry, but the amount varies by tribe and location) and those people from the middle east who came a few thousand years ago. Cushitic peoples in South Ethiopia have even less mid. Eastern ancestry. but they have a little and they were once extended further south where they mixed further with some of the native hunter gatherer groups native to coastal East Africa along the way. Then the descendants of some of those those people with remote Cushitic ancestry eventually mixed with some of the Khoisan tribes in Southern Africa and introduced cattle herding to a few of them and contributed a small fraction of their ancestry to them (some, especially the cattle herding ones like the Khoi Khoi still have a small amount). That is likely the source of the “Middle Eastern genes” in the skeleton from South Africa were likely from that source, but the skeleton was not a middle Easterner but likely a native with a tiny bit of very remote Mid Eastern ancestry (from admixed-part Cushitic people who mixed with their ancestors).

    (The Tutsi are not a Nilotic ethnic group. They do have a mix of Bantu, Nilotic and Cushitic ancestry—some of their ancestors were Nilotic and Cushitic. But they speak a Bantu language and the dna evidence suggest that their ancestry tends to be largely Bantu)

    The Lemba are mostly Bantu people whose ancestors may have at some point mixed a bit (much more recently) with Jewish (or more likely Arab) groups (that would be separate and a lot later than the coming of the more ancient Mid-Eastern ancestors of Horn Africans).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jm8
    Cont/Edit: a source with several tables with admixture data on different, Nilotic/Nilo-Saharan, Cushitic (and other Ethiopian), and other African groups:

    http://anthromadness.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-mota-mistake.html

    Edits:

    "...and some Nilotic tribes expanded (in different directions) from the Sudan into South Ethiopia, parts of the Uganda/Rwanda region), and Kenya where they acquired a little Cushitic mixture producing part-Cushitic Nilotic tribes like the Massai and Turkana..."


    "local subsaharan...(usually just over half or sometimes a greater majority of their ancestry, but the amount varies by tribe and location) and those people from the middle east who came a few thousand years ago. Cushitic peoples in South Ethiopia (like the Konso or Borana) have even less mid. Eastern ancestry, but they have a some..."
    , @ogunsiron
    The Tutsi are not a Nilotic ethnic group. They do have a mix of Bantu, Nilotic and Cushitic ancestry—some of their ancestors were Nilotic and Cushitic. But they speak a Bantu language and the dna evidence suggest that their ancestry tends to be largely Bantu)
    -----
    In peoples with mixed ancestry in general, it's always possible for the traits of one of the "parent" populations to concentrate in individuals or lineages. Kagame looks like a Tutsi experiment in concentrating the Horner genes.
    , @IHTG

    Nilotic people—like the Dinka, Shilluk, Luo, Nuer, etc (and other Nilo Saharans like the Fur—Nilotic is a branch of the Nilo Saharan ethno-linguistic/language family) are not the ones with the Near Eastern/Eurasian admixture (That would be more the Cushitic peoples who came from the horn of Africa). Nilotics usually have none or very little non-subsaharan ancestry.

     

    Intuitive evidence of this: Nilotics are tall. The "Cushitic" peoples from the Horn of Africa aren't.
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  40. Trelane says:
    @Nigerian Nationalist
    Homo Sapiens didn't exist 800,000 years ago. Jesus man!

    Homo Sapiens didn’t exist 800,000 years ago.

    Archaic humans who left footprints did exist then. They lived and evolved in Europe through at least 10 glaciations and interglacials. They may actually be some of your ancestors Mr Nigerian Nationalist.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    "Archaic Humans"

    Your ignorance is mind-blowing. Humans are Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

    Pick up a book, stop being an embarrassment to humankind.
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  41. Jm8 says:
    @neutral
    That South African skeleton from the Near East is interesting, I am certainly not an expert on this matter but based on my perceptions there are no Nilotic people in South Africa, except for the very recent immigrants.

    The South African black population is Bantu descended, if the Nilotic people made it all the way here then perhaps the Lemba people might be derived from them. They practice some jewish like customs but they look like Bantus and speak Bantu type languages, there are not many Lembas though. If Nilotic people did make get to the very south of Africa then they must have been very few and they obviously did not become the rulers of the land.

    Nilotic people—like the Dinka, Shilluk, Luo, Nuer, etc (and other Nilo Saharans like the Fur—Nilotic is a branch of the Nilo Saharan ethno-linguistic/language family) are not the ones with the Near Eastern/Eurasian admixture (That would be more the Cushitic peoples who came from the horn of Africa). Nilotics usually have none or very little non-subsaharan ancestry.They (Nilo-Saharans) are a group native to Eastern subsaharan Africa, whose core original homeland is believed to be around south and central Sudan and Chad (and some tribes expanded into Kenya, South Ethiopia and parts of the Uganda/Rwanda region).

    (One other main language family in Africa is Niger-Congo, based in West Africa. Bantu languages are a small and relatively recent offshoot/part of Niger-Congo that came from between West And Central Africa and spread south and east from there—most Niger-Congo languages belong to branches other than Bantu.)

    The people with some admixture are mostly people from the horn of Africa (around Ethiopia and Somalia) who speak Cushitic languages. They (Cushitic people/horn Africans are a mix of an ancient indigenous local types of subsaharan African (the majority of their ancestry but varying by tribe) and those people from the middle east who came a few thousand years ago. Cushitic peoples in South Ethiopia have even less mid. Eastern ancestry. but they have a little and they were once extended further south where they mixed further with some of the native hunter gatherer groups native to coastal East Africa along the way. Then the descendants of some of those those people with remote Cushitic ancestry eventually mixed with some of the Khoisan tribes in Southern Africa and introduced cattle herding to a few of them and contributed a small fraction of their ancestry to them (some, especially the cattle herding ones like the Khoi Khoi still have a small amount). That is likely the source of the “Middle Eastern genes” in the skeleton from South Africa were likely from that source, but the skeleton was not a middle Easterner but likely a native with a tiny bit of very remote Mid Eastern ancestry (from admixed-part Cushitic people who mixed with their ancestors).

    (The Tutsi are not a Nilotic ethnic group. They do have a mix of Bantu, Nilotic and Cushitic ancestry—some of their ancestors were Nilotic and Cushitic. But they speak a Bantu language and the dna evidence suggest that their ancestry tends to be largely Bantu)

    The Lemba are mostly Bantu people whose ancestors may have at some point mixed a bit (much more recently) with Jewish (or more likely Arab) groups (that would be separate and a lot later than the coming of the more ancient Mid-Eastern ancestors of Horn Africans).

    Read More
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  42. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8
    Nilotic people—like the Dinka, Shilluk, Luo, Nuer, etc (and other Nilo Saharans like the Fur—Nilotic is a branch of the Nilo Saharan ethno-linguistic/language family) are not the ones with the Near Eastern/Eurasian admixture (That would be more the Cushitic peoples who came from the horn of Africa). Nilotics usually have none or very little non-subsaharan ancestry.They (Nilo-Saharans) are a group native to Eastern subsaharan Africa, whose core original homeland is believed to be around south and central Sudan and Chad (and some tribes expanded into Kenya, South Ethiopia and parts of the Uganda/Rwanda region).

    (One other main language family in Africa is Niger-Congo, based in West Africa. Bantu languages are a small and relatively recent offshoot/part of Niger-Congo that came from between West And Central Africa and spread south and east from there—most Niger-Congo languages belong to branches other than Bantu.)

    The people with some admixture are mostly people from the horn of Africa (around Ethiopia and Somalia) who speak Cushitic languages. They (Cushitic people/horn Africans are a mix of an ancient indigenous local types of subsaharan African (the majority of their ancestry, but the amount varies by tribe and location) and those people from the middle east who came a few thousand years ago. Cushitic peoples in South Ethiopia have even less mid. Eastern ancestry. but they have a little and they were once extended further south where they mixed further with some of the native hunter gatherer groups native to coastal East Africa along the way. Then the descendants of some of those those people with remote Cushitic ancestry eventually mixed with some of the Khoisan tribes in Southern Africa and introduced cattle herding to a few of them and contributed a small fraction of their ancestry to them (some, especially the cattle herding ones like the Khoi Khoi still have a small amount). That is likely the source of the "Middle Eastern genes" in the skeleton from South Africa were likely from that source, but the skeleton was not a middle Easterner but likely a native with a tiny bit of very remote Mid Eastern ancestry (from admixed-part Cushitic people who mixed with their ancestors).

    (The Tutsi are not a Nilotic ethnic group. They do have a mix of Bantu, Nilotic and Cushitic ancestry—some of their ancestors were Nilotic and Cushitic. But they speak a Bantu language and the dna evidence suggest that their ancestry tends to be largely Bantu)

    The Lemba are mostly Bantu people whose ancestors may have at some point mixed a bit (much more recently) with Jewish (or more likely Arab) groups (that would be separate and a lot later than the coming of the more ancient Mid-Eastern ancestors of Horn Africans).

    Cont/Edit: a source with several tables with admixture data on different, Nilotic/Nilo-Saharan, Cushitic (and other Ethiopian), and other African groups:

    http://anthromadness.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-mota-mistake.html

    Edits:

    “…and some Nilotic tribes expanded (in different directions) from the Sudan into South Ethiopia, parts of the Uganda/Rwanda region), and Kenya where they acquired a little Cushitic mixture producing part-Cushitic Nilotic tribes like the Massai and Turkana…”

    “local subsaharan…(usually just over half or sometimes a greater majority of their ancestry, but the amount varies by tribe and location) and those people from the middle east who came a few thousand years ago. Cushitic peoples in South Ethiopia (like the Konso or Borana) have even less mid. Eastern ancestry, but they have a some…”

    Read More
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  43. Garymc says:
    @Ben Kurtz
    Why does Ugandan President Kagame have a nicely pressed fresh suit, while U.S. President Obama is wearing a shabby, wrinkled jacket? Who allowed him to be photographed in that state? It's embarrassing.

    It’s not the jacket, it’s just empty.

    Read More
    • LOL: Joe Sweet
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  44. @Barnard
    I was just about to post that link, one of the more interesting quotes:

    "I don't believe he understands everything about black people," Smith said. "But he married a black woman from the South Side, and she feels our pain. Our pain is her pain."
     
    I guess not everyone on the South Side considers Barack Obama one of their own. I wonder how they will handle the promise of jobs to local residents while still keeping the library operational.

    I don’t think theft of books is likely to be a problem.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Barnard
    Have you been to a Presidential Library? It is not stacks and stacks of books, they are essentially museums dedicated to putting out propaganda about the former President. They need well spoken, professional employees and volunteers to answer questions, guide field trips of school children, etc. The George W. Bush library in Dallas has a full replica of the Oval Office where you can get you picture taken sitting at the Resolute Desk. The Reagan library has an exhibit with a decommissioned Air Force One plane you can tour.
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  45. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Are they in Rwanda? Maybe Obama just got off a plane. Still, you;’d think he could change into a fresh suit just before landing; Air Force One is pretty fancy like that.

    They are standing in the Blue Room in the Executive Residence of the White House!

    Apparently the Obamas didn’t get around to totally Africanizing that room. But check out the Family Dining Room…

    Redecorated by Michelle and that room could be confused for Rwanda perhaps.

    Read More
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  46. El Dato says:
    @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/ValeriePlame/status/910914285311754240

    https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/910196143832825862

    without seeing and considering the rest.

    You were so strong. How could you fail so much in your woke-fu.

    Read More
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  47. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @neutral
    That South African skeleton from the Near East is interesting, I am certainly not an expert on this matter but based on my perceptions there are no Nilotic people in South Africa, except for the very recent immigrants.

    The South African black population is Bantu descended, if the Nilotic people made it all the way here then perhaps the Lemba people might be derived from them. They practice some jewish like customs but they look like Bantus and speak Bantu type languages, there are not many Lembas though. If Nilotic people did make get to the very south of Africa then they must have been very few and they obviously did not become the rulers of the land.

    They practice some jewish like customs but they look like Bantus

    So they clip coins and set up payday loan businesses as well? :)

    Read More
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  48. SnakeEyes says:

    Where is Yarden Katz to shove these study authors off their pedestals?

    Read More
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  49. ogunsiron says:
    @Jm8
    Nilotic people—like the Dinka, Shilluk, Luo, Nuer, etc (and other Nilo Saharans like the Fur—Nilotic is a branch of the Nilo Saharan ethno-linguistic/language family) are not the ones with the Near Eastern/Eurasian admixture (That would be more the Cushitic peoples who came from the horn of Africa). Nilotics usually have none or very little non-subsaharan ancestry.They (Nilo-Saharans) are a group native to Eastern subsaharan Africa, whose core original homeland is believed to be around south and central Sudan and Chad (and some tribes expanded into Kenya, South Ethiopia and parts of the Uganda/Rwanda region).

    (One other main language family in Africa is Niger-Congo, based in West Africa. Bantu languages are a small and relatively recent offshoot/part of Niger-Congo that came from between West And Central Africa and spread south and east from there—most Niger-Congo languages belong to branches other than Bantu.)

    The people with some admixture are mostly people from the horn of Africa (around Ethiopia and Somalia) who speak Cushitic languages. They (Cushitic people/horn Africans are a mix of an ancient indigenous local types of subsaharan African (the majority of their ancestry, but the amount varies by tribe and location) and those people from the middle east who came a few thousand years ago. Cushitic peoples in South Ethiopia have even less mid. Eastern ancestry. but they have a little and they were once extended further south where they mixed further with some of the native hunter gatherer groups native to coastal East Africa along the way. Then the descendants of some of those those people with remote Cushitic ancestry eventually mixed with some of the Khoisan tribes in Southern Africa and introduced cattle herding to a few of them and contributed a small fraction of their ancestry to them (some, especially the cattle herding ones like the Khoi Khoi still have a small amount). That is likely the source of the "Middle Eastern genes" in the skeleton from South Africa were likely from that source, but the skeleton was not a middle Easterner but likely a native with a tiny bit of very remote Mid Eastern ancestry (from admixed-part Cushitic people who mixed with their ancestors).

    (The Tutsi are not a Nilotic ethnic group. They do have a mix of Bantu, Nilotic and Cushitic ancestry—some of their ancestors were Nilotic and Cushitic. But they speak a Bantu language and the dna evidence suggest that their ancestry tends to be largely Bantu)

    The Lemba are mostly Bantu people whose ancestors may have at some point mixed a bit (much more recently) with Jewish (or more likely Arab) groups (that would be separate and a lot later than the coming of the more ancient Mid-Eastern ancestors of Horn Africans).

    The Tutsi are not a Nilotic ethnic group. They do have a mix of Bantu, Nilotic and Cushitic ancestry—some of their ancestors were Nilotic and Cushitic. But they speak a Bantu language and the dna evidence suggest that their ancestry tends to be largely Bantu)
    —–
    In peoples with mixed ancestry in general, it’s always possible for the traits of one of the “parent” populations to concentrate in individuals or lineages. Kagame looks like a Tutsi experiment in concentrating the Horner genes.

    Read More
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  50. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    All very profound.

    The near Eastern ancient invaders of Africa apparently never got around to devising a caste system such as the Steppic invaders of India, thus, apparently, they merged into the conquered peoples to become, basically, one whole.

    Modern experience tells us that ‘dark white’ near Eastern Araby types are perhaps the harshest critics of sub Saharan blacks around.
    One only wonders at what sort of ‘racial dynamic’ prevailed in those dim far-off ancient times.
    Perhaps a hint is the near universal preponderance of y DNA haplotype E in sub Saharan Africa, and its hypothesized origin in Eurasia.
    Someone, apparently, monopolized all the ‘black women’.

    Read More
    • Replies: @helena
    It may be simplistic and reductionist but the proposition, that the populations living all along the south coast of the Asian continent represent a mixture of the populations above and below, looks feasible.
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  51. O'Really says:
    @Definitely Anonymous
    As always, the lede is buried. From the paper:

    The possible basal western African population lineage would represent the earliest known divergence of a modern human lineage that contributed a major proportion of ancestry to present-day humans. Such a lineage must have separated before the divergence of San ancestors, which is estimated to have begun on the order of 200–300 thousand years ago (Scally and Durbin, 2012). Such a model of basal western African ancestry might support the hypothesis that there has been ancient structure in the ancestry of present-day Africans, using a line of evidence independent from previous findings based on long haplotypes with deep divergences from other human haplotypes (Hammer et al., 2011, Lachance et al., 2012, Plagnol and Wall, 2006).

    Hm. You know... there's a word for those of us who have long suspected "ancient structure in the ancestry of present-day Africans..."

    The previous paper on this subject also has a chart that's... rather striking...

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/06/05/145409

    which chart? can you be more explicit about what you are getting at?

    Read More
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  52. Eagle Eye says:
    @neutral
    That South African skeleton from the Near East is interesting, I am certainly not an expert on this matter but based on my perceptions there are no Nilotic people in South Africa, except for the very recent immigrants.

    The South African black population is Bantu descended, if the Nilotic people made it all the way here then perhaps the Lemba people might be derived from them. They practice some jewish like customs but they look like Bantus and speak Bantu type languages, there are not many Lembas though. If Nilotic people did make get to the very south of Africa then they must have been very few and they obviously did not become the rulers of the land.

    Here is what they don’t want you to notice:

    Ethiopians and other Horn of Africa populations are vastly different from the rest of Africa due to (1) two-way traffic to the Arabian peninsula (they speak Semitic languages) and (2) much reduced interchange with the rest of sub-Saharan Africa due to topography.

    Tutsi and other Nilotic peoples appear to share some features with Horn of Africa populations, especially high, narrow noses.

    Read More
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  53. helena says:
    @Definitely Anonymous
    As always, the lede is buried. From the paper:

    The possible basal western African population lineage would represent the earliest known divergence of a modern human lineage that contributed a major proportion of ancestry to present-day humans. Such a lineage must have separated before the divergence of San ancestors, which is estimated to have begun on the order of 200–300 thousand years ago (Scally and Durbin, 2012). Such a model of basal western African ancestry might support the hypothesis that there has been ancient structure in the ancestry of present-day Africans, using a line of evidence independent from previous findings based on long haplotypes with deep divergences from other human haplotypes (Hammer et al., 2011, Lachance et al., 2012, Plagnol and Wall, 2006).

    Hm. You know... there's a word for those of us who have long suspected "ancient structure in the ancestry of present-day Africans..."

    The previous paper on this subject also has a chart that's... rather striking...

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/06/05/145409

    Bantu are descended from a population that separated off before San? That’s a new one! Seems the story never stays the same for long.

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  54. helena says:
    @Anonymous
    All very profound.

    The near Eastern ancient invaders of Africa apparently never got around to devising a caste system such as the Steppic invaders of India, thus, apparently, they merged into the conquered peoples to become, basically, one whole.

    Modern experience tells us that 'dark white' near Eastern Araby types are perhaps the harshest critics of sub Saharan blacks around.
    One only wonders at what sort of 'racial dynamic' prevailed in those dim far-off ancient times.
    Perhaps a hint is the near universal preponderance of y DNA haplotype E in sub Saharan Africa, and its hypothesized origin in Eurasia.
    Someone, apparently, monopolized all the 'black women'.

    It may be simplistic and reductionist but the proposition, that the populations living all along the south coast of the Asian continent represent a mixture of the populations above and below, looks feasible.

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  55. @Ben Kurtz
    Why does Ugandan President Kagame have a nicely pressed fresh suit, while U.S. President Obama is wearing a shabby, wrinkled jacket? Who allowed him to be photographed in that state? It's embarrassing.

    And who put the First Lady in a dress that makes her look like a chocolate destined for an Easter basket?

    Kagame’s daughter isn’t a great beauty but she’s got a body and a dress to match it.

    First couple, upstaged.

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  56. @Thirdeye
    The world needs more musical groups named after synthetic fabrics.

    Then you’ll love my new punk band, “No Blood for Voile”.

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  57. Pericles says:
    @Achilles

    I wonder how they will handle the promise of jobs to local residents while still keeping the library operational.
     
    Did you not read to the end of the article?

    All written materials curated by the library will be housed in an annex on the main campus of the University of Chicago where they can be accessed by historians and scholars.

    The Jackson Park location will contain only audio-visual presentations.

    In one panel, a Michael Brown figure will be depicted on his knees, his hands up with palms facing God, pleading for cosmic justice for the black race, while a white policeman guns him down. A looped sound track will feature the wailings of African-American women.

    Other panels will include among other scenes the shooting by a white man of a small hooded black child holding a bag of skittles and atrocities inflicted on Muslims by Christians during the Crusades.
     

    All written materials curated by the library will be housed in an annex on the main campus of the University of Chicago where they can be accessed by historians and scholars.

    The Jackson Park location will contain only audio-visual presentations.

    After reading some paean to the leaden TV comedy of today, now that’s funny. Which site will get the Genius T. Coates material though?

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  58. Pericles says:
    @Big Bill
    Obama ran for office against Bobby Rush and got his butt kicked. Folks in the ghetto did not want some hi-yalla, white-acting, college boy representing them.

    Obama had to move up north and live with the white folks in Hyde Park to get elected.

    And now the South Side Bantu think Obama owes them something? For what, exactly? They need to get off their butts and stop riding his coattails.

    It seems you don’t understand black people.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar


    Obama had to move up north and live with the white folks in Hyde Park to get elected.
     
    It seems you don’t understand black people.
     
    Or Chicago. Hyde Park is pretty much the center of the South Side.

    Though it certainly challenges the stereotypes the latter term evokes, doesn't it?
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  59. AndrewR says:

    Michelle getting handsy again

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  60. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Nigerian Nationalist
    "Similarly, in the United States, the first sub-Saharan President was Nilotic rather than Bantu like the vast majority of African-Americans."

    I fail to understand the point being made here?

    He was President because the stars lined up for him. But if one were to make a list of greatest African-Americans, I'm pretty sure, Bantus like MLK and Frederick Douglass would outrank him.

    Further, in Kenya, the "Nilotic" Luo are the hewers of wood vis a vis the Bantu Kikuyu. Further, you might recall the "Afroasiatic" regions as the poster children for the Africa is starving campaigns of the Noughties. The Bantu nations are richer in contemporary day Africa, with Bantu Botswana, in particular, a highlight. "Nambia", as President Trump tells us has universal healthcare.

    In conclusion, in America, Bantu Nigerians are the achievers, while the Afro-Asiatic Eritreans aren't.

    So many questions... Or we can just admit that this exercises while amusing fall apart when structural differences are taken into account.

    Did you really just use the words Bantu Nigerian achievers all in the same sentence?

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    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    Do you have a point or does Anonymity reduce you to blubbering snideness?
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  61. IHTG says:
    @Jm8
    Nilotic people—like the Dinka, Shilluk, Luo, Nuer, etc (and other Nilo Saharans like the Fur—Nilotic is a branch of the Nilo Saharan ethno-linguistic/language family) are not the ones with the Near Eastern/Eurasian admixture (That would be more the Cushitic peoples who came from the horn of Africa). Nilotics usually have none or very little non-subsaharan ancestry.They (Nilo-Saharans) are a group native to Eastern subsaharan Africa, whose core original homeland is believed to be around south and central Sudan and Chad (and some tribes expanded into Kenya, South Ethiopia and parts of the Uganda/Rwanda region).

    (One other main language family in Africa is Niger-Congo, based in West Africa. Bantu languages are a small and relatively recent offshoot/part of Niger-Congo that came from between West And Central Africa and spread south and east from there—most Niger-Congo languages belong to branches other than Bantu.)

    The people with some admixture are mostly people from the horn of Africa (around Ethiopia and Somalia) who speak Cushitic languages. They (Cushitic people/horn Africans are a mix of an ancient indigenous local types of subsaharan African (the majority of their ancestry, but the amount varies by tribe and location) and those people from the middle east who came a few thousand years ago. Cushitic peoples in South Ethiopia have even less mid. Eastern ancestry. but they have a little and they were once extended further south where they mixed further with some of the native hunter gatherer groups native to coastal East Africa along the way. Then the descendants of some of those those people with remote Cushitic ancestry eventually mixed with some of the Khoisan tribes in Southern Africa and introduced cattle herding to a few of them and contributed a small fraction of their ancestry to them (some, especially the cattle herding ones like the Khoi Khoi still have a small amount). That is likely the source of the "Middle Eastern genes" in the skeleton from South Africa were likely from that source, but the skeleton was not a middle Easterner but likely a native with a tiny bit of very remote Mid Eastern ancestry (from admixed-part Cushitic people who mixed with their ancestors).

    (The Tutsi are not a Nilotic ethnic group. They do have a mix of Bantu, Nilotic and Cushitic ancestry—some of their ancestors were Nilotic and Cushitic. But they speak a Bantu language and the dna evidence suggest that their ancestry tends to be largely Bantu)

    The Lemba are mostly Bantu people whose ancestors may have at some point mixed a bit (much more recently) with Jewish (or more likely Arab) groups (that would be separate and a lot later than the coming of the more ancient Mid-Eastern ancestors of Horn Africans).

    Nilotic people—like the Dinka, Shilluk, Luo, Nuer, etc (and other Nilo Saharans like the Fur—Nilotic is a branch of the Nilo Saharan ethno-linguistic/language family) are not the ones with the Near Eastern/Eurasian admixture (That would be more the Cushitic peoples who came from the horn of Africa). Nilotics usually have none or very little non-subsaharan ancestry.

    Intuitive evidence of this: Nilotics are tall. The “Cushitic” peoples from the Horn of Africa aren’t.

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    • Replies: @Jm8
    True, that many Nilotic groups are tall (but some other Nilotic and esp. some non-nilotic Nilo-Saharan Nilo-Saharan groups like the Fur or Midob of Central Sudan whose languages are on a branch close too Nilotic, or some of the peoples of the more distant branches of NS like so called "Central or Western Sudanic" of Nilo-Saharan for instance, are not especially tall though some of those tribes often may still tend to be a bit on the tall side—, often more medium height (they basically look more or less like Nilotes—similar skin tones and facial features—but less tall,) Nilo-Saharans are a pretty ancient ethnographic-linguistic group in Eastern SS Africa, so they've had some time to diverge and diversify linguistically/culturally, phenotypically, etc
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  62. Altai says:

    An amusing thing about this and recent finds about East Asians is this. Northern Europeans have been in place and with far less introgression than just about anybody else except Australesian/Melanesian peoples and some Middle Eastern populations. The history of the Americas is less clear but certainly there was a lot of internal movement and turnover in what we now call Canada/Alaska.

    Greenlanders, for instance, have been living there for a shorter time than Icelanders, having wiped out the previous indigenous population (Now called the Dorset people, referring to a broad collection of populations across North East Canada and Greenland who had a distinctive shared material culture, The Norse never gave them a distinct name in any records which survive.) and potentially the Norse settlements. (Though these likely collapsed more due to inability to adapt to the harsh conditions than conflict with outside groups.)

    But I doubt anyone will care about the swamping of the indigenous populations of Ireland, Norway or Finland any time soon. I’m already told the world will be a better place with fewer and fewer ethnic Swedes in Sweden.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Yep.

    And it was the *Swedish Government* and *Swedish Prime Minister* who intimated those statements.
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  63. Nico says:
    @Nigerian Nationalist
    "Similarly, in the United States, the first sub-Saharan President was Nilotic rather than Bantu like the vast majority of African-Americans."

    I fail to understand the point being made here?

    He was President because the stars lined up for him. But if one were to make a list of greatest African-Americans, I'm pretty sure, Bantus like MLK and Frederick Douglass would outrank him.

    Further, in Kenya, the "Nilotic" Luo are the hewers of wood vis a vis the Bantu Kikuyu. Further, you might recall the "Afroasiatic" regions as the poster children for the Africa is starving campaigns of the Noughties. The Bantu nations are richer in contemporary day Africa, with Bantu Botswana, in particular, a highlight. "Nambia", as President Trump tells us has universal healthcare.

    In conclusion, in America, Bantu Nigerians are the achievers, while the Afro-Asiatic Eritreans aren't.

    So many questions... Or we can just admit that this exercises while amusing fall apart when structural differences are taken into account.

    He was President because the stars lined up for him. But if one were to make a list of greatest African-Americans, I’m pretty sure, Bantus like MLK and Frederick Douglass would outrank him.

    When American historians list the “greatest American” anything, their criteria are far from neutral.

    For the kill, both Douglass and MLK were technically mixed race, not strictly Bantu.

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    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    Absurd Quibble, considering my statement derives from Steve's.

    "For the kill, both Douglass and MLK were technically mixed race,"

    So is Obama. Tell me you understood the point Steve was trying to make, then read my counterpoints within that context.

    "For the kill", calling A-A's mixed is stretching it: https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations/

    "Similarly, in the United States, the first sub-Saharan President was Nilotic rather than Bantu like the vast majority of African-Americans."

    This is still bogus.
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  64. ussr andy says:
    @Achilles

    Once humans expanded out of Africa, there was little or no flow of genes between Africans and non-Africans for tens of thousands of years, the new study indicates.
     
    It's a good thing evolution was suspended during this period, else biological differences might have arisen among these geographically-dispersed populations.

    It’s a good thing evolution was suspended during this period

    just the brain’s.

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  65. TheJester says:

    Ouch! The narrative is starting to hurt.

    So, Barack Obama’s African heritage is Nilotic while the descendants of African slaves in the United States have a Bantu heritage. And … the Nilotic peoples of Eastern Africa continue to hold Bantu peoples in de facto slavery via a rigid caste system.

    Time for affirmative action and the elimination of disparate impacts … anyone? Is the concept of the evil “Nilotic privilege” worth pressing?

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  66. @Achilles

    Once humans expanded out of Africa, there was little or no flow of genes between Africans and non-Africans for tens of thousands of years, the new study indicates.
     
    It's a good thing evolution was suspended during this period, else biological differences might have arisen among these geographically-dispersed populations.

    God suspended evolution in humans because God is Good and he saw the result would be racist.

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    • LOL: bomag
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  67. Barnard says:
    @Diversity Heretic
    I don't think theft of books is likely to be a problem.

    Have you been to a Presidential Library? It is not stacks and stacks of books, they are essentially museums dedicated to putting out propaganda about the former President. They need well spoken, professional employees and volunteers to answer questions, guide field trips of school children, etc. The George W. Bush library in Dallas has a full replica of the Oval Office where you can get you picture taken sitting at the Resolute Desk. The Reagan library has an exhibit with a decommissioned Air Force One plane you can tour.

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  68. Nico says:

    At some point will it occur to SJWs that it’s worth asking whether the stereotypes are in fact bad and old, or they describe bad old truths?

    NAHHHHHH…

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  69. Tex says:

    Africa’s where I saw Mau-Mau kissing Santa.

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  70. Rifleman says:
    @Alec Leamas
    No, I've seen Hotel Rwanda and clearly the division and dissension between Tutsis and Hutus was a European colonialist divide-and-conquer plot.

    Similarly, in the United States, the first sub-Saharan President was Nilotic rather than Bantu like the vast majority of African-Americans.

    No. And he looks nothing like his father and I checked the photos and his mother doesn’t look remotely “Nilotic”.

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  71. Rifleman says:
    @Alec Leamas
    No, I've seen Hotel Rwanda and clearly the division and dissension between Tutsis and Hutus was a European colonialist divide-and-conquer plot.

    Archaeologists have studied this expansion for decades to learn what happened as the Bantu arrived in other parts of the continent. The new genetic findings suggest that in some places, they may have pushed out the hunter-gatherers.

    Up until 2,000 years ago, Dr. Thompson and her colleagues found, people in Malawi belonged to the same ancestral group as hunter-gatherers in southern Africa. “This was a hugely widespread population,” she said.

    Didn’t Nelson Mandela look like he had some Bushman/Koisan ancestry?

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  72. Pierre says:

    The Bantu and non-Bantu morphology is a little bit more complicated than most people realized (including Steve). It is true that in Rwanda, the Tutsi have Ethiopian-like looks i.e. slender, small noses, and light skin, relative to the Bantu Hutus. But in Kenya, things are different. There, the Luo, which are Nilotes, are quite dark and look very West African. The Kikuyu, who are Bantu, are quite light skin and more similar looking to the Tutsi.

    The Kagame-Obama picture is very misleading. Barack Obama today resembles a Kikuyu far more than Luo, even though his dad is Luo. Of course, morphology can tell you a lot but can be misleading.

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    • Replies: @Forcet
    "The Bantu and non-Bantu morphology is a little bit more complicated than most people realized (including Steve)."

    This is an understatement, and what many people don't realize is that things like the prognathism and less developed chins that typify west africans/bantus isn't all that typical for most other africans. Nilotic populations are generally orthognatic (flat-jawed, the opposite of prognathism) with more developed chins, and this includes south sudanese like the Dinka and Nuer. This has been documented in anthropological literature for sometime and is evident from profile shots, despite how they have typically negroid features like flat, wide noses and big lips. They're also perhaps the darkest and tallest africans.

    Even various khoisan groups exhibit these traits, like the khoisan man on the cover of this book: https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Land-Bushmen-Kalahari-Desert/dp/0802140513/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1506146291&sr=1-1&keywords=healing+land

    This also extends to the various nilotic populations, and many of them exhibit relatively caucasoid features like thinner, narrower noses and thinner lips. Many of them do bare resemblance to east africans, like the Kikuyu you mention, though I disagree they're at all lighter. Another poster claimed the Tutsi are mostly bantu, but I don't know about that- I'm not familiar with the DNA evidence, but they by and large don't resemble the bantu much at all and altogether more closely resemble east africans. Old profile shots comparing tutsi to hutu are can be pretty striking: http://44226196.weebly.com/uploads/4/4/8/2/44829035/7049865_orig.jpg?392

    But the point I'm getting is that this research supposedly lends credence to old ideas about racial introgression in SS africa and the "Hamitic race" theory, and that the caucasoid tendencies in these populations is due to admixture from near easterners:

    "In all, these genetic patterns suggest that early farmers or herders from the Near East swept down through Egypt into East Africa several thousand years ago. They then kept expanding over the centuries until their descendants reached the southern edge of the continent."

    Whatever mixture has occurred between bantus and nilotes, the physical features that exist in these populations are variously extremes that are very, very unlikely to have arisen through admixture. The southern sudanese and other very dark nilotes are testament to this- nobody would insinuate they have significant non-african. These populations variously have features dark skin, kinky hair, thin, spindly body plans distinct from even from western africans, yet also orthognathism, developed chins, and tendencies to other caucasoid facial features.

    This is even true of east africans like ethiopians and somalians. They have small teeth, reduced brows and prognathism, dark skin, very thin, narrow tall noses, rounded foreheads, thin lips etc. They have extremes of both negroids and caucasoids that really don't match with the ancestry proportions given for them. Somalians likewise have some distinct traits that set them apart from any surrounding populations- they seem to be the only race of people prone to "fiveheads" and typically have pretty small faces.

    From this, I've gotten the impression the various nilotic groups and east africans broadly belong to a branch of africans altogether distinct from bantus, and their features are essentially indigenous.

    And I don't get this: "In all, these genetic patterns suggest that early farmers or herders from the Near East swept down through Egypt into East Africa several thousand years ago. They then kept expanding over the centuries until their descendants reached the southern edge of the continent."

    So why didn't these people seemingly leave any imprint on the ancestors of the south sudanese?

    And this: "Near Eastern genes were also found in a skeleton from South Africa about 1,200 years old; according to the researchers, some living South Africans carry this DNA today."

    I really doubt this is related to that group of near eastern farmers/herders they describe. Groups from the near east have been travelling to southern africa by ocean for a very long time. We know the Omanis had a presence in Madagascar as far back as the 7th century. We know the Lemba people of Southern Africa, despite looking like typical bantus, have heavy jewish ancestry that likely derived from an unknown migration in the past.
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  73. Once again, this is the old-fashioned anthropology you aren’t supposed to mention in contemporary Rwanda…

    Or Burundi. We never hear about the Tutsi massacre of Hutus there in 1972.

    Nixon didn’t apologize for not coming to their rescue, either.

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  74. @Pericles
    It seems you don't understand black people.

    Obama had to move up north and live with the white folks in Hyde Park to get elected.

    It seems you don’t understand black people.

    Or Chicago. Hyde Park is pretty much the center of the South Side.

    Though it certainly challenges the stereotypes the latter term evokes, doesn’t it?

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  75. bomag says:
    @Yan Shen
    Well I just beat Civilization 6 on deity mode while playing as Nubia, the latest civ released in the summer DLC. I was able to achieve a science victory on turn 296, which corresponds to 1846 AD. Setting up a Mars colony before the mid 19th century is quite an achievement! As was crushing all of the non-African civs I was up against and for a good part of the game being ahead in science and later culture.

    All in all a uh giant win for Africans!

    This explains a few things about you.

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  76. bomag says:
    @Thomas
    OT (or maybe not?): top of Drudge right now, apparently Obama isn't doing enough for South Side blacks in the planning for his Presidential library. Wealth of Steve topics raised here. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/glanton/ct-obama-community-dahleen-glanton-met-20170921-column.html

    Obama opened the door to the backlash when he appeared on a video at the foundation’s first public meeting last week and said flat-out that there would be no community benefits agreement.
    …Such a legal document, he said, would force the foundation to side with certain activist groups and leave others out. And, he added, it would open the door for other groups to step up and start making demands

    Gee, too bad while as president he didn’t help the rest of us get some relief from all the various forms of “community benefits agreements” such as endless wars and importing welfare cases.

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  77. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Homo Sapiens didn't exist 800,000 years ago. Jesus man!

    http://britishmuseum.org/research/research_projects/all_current_projects/featured_project_happisburgh/happisburgh_footprints.aspx

    “So who were they? Unfortunately there are no human bones from Britain of this age, but the most likely candidate is Homo antecessor or ‘Pioneer Man’. Bones of this early human species have been found at the contemporary site of Atapuerca in northern Spain. The importance of the Happisburgh footprints is the very tangible link they give to our forebears from the deep past.”

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    • Replies: @Jm8
    There were several waves of hominids from Africa that spread into (parts of) Eurasia (eventually ending with sapiens): migrations of first homo erectus, then Homo antecessor, later homo heidelbergensis, and finally sapiens. Homo antecessor in Europe is not the direct ancestor of modern homosapiens. Modern humans/sapiens (or the great majority of their ancestry) come from the homo antecessor that stayed in Africa and evolved into hedelbergensis (or just evolved from African heidelbergensis—its uncertain whether antessesor is a direct ancestor), which in turn in (also in Africa) evolved into sapiens (which then spread within and outside of Africa). (earlier, the heidelbergensis that migrated to Europe eventually evolved into neanderthal, and denisovans descend from heidelbergensis in Asia).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_antecessor

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_heidelbergensis

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  78. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Why do we need presidential libraries at all? Everything is going digital. If it weren’t for fussiness about documents that show presidents in a bad light, all we need is transmission of those documents to the Library of Congress and their digital preservation there for all to read online. No need for new buildings, except for crazy arrogant pyramid-building-make-my-legacy tendencies.

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    • Replies: @The True and Original David
    The face of Ozymandias's statue was actually part of the Ozymandias Presidential Library. Few know this.

    (The poem: http://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/poems/ozymandias )

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  79. Pierre says:

    The way we are heading, the question will be which population DOES NOT have archaic mixture…

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  80. Jm8 says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    http://britishmuseum.org/research/research_projects/all_current_projects/featured_project_happisburgh/happisburgh_footprints.aspx

    "So who were they? Unfortunately there are no human bones from Britain of this age, but the most likely candidate is Homo antecessor or ‘Pioneer Man’. Bones of this early human species have been found at the contemporary site of Atapuerca in northern Spain. The importance of the Happisburgh footprints is the very tangible link they give to our forebears from the deep past."

    There were several waves of hominids from Africa that spread into (parts of) Eurasia (eventually ending with sapiens): migrations of first homo erectus, then Homo antecessor, later homo heidelbergensis, and finally sapiens. Homo antecessor in Europe is not the direct ancestor of modern homosapiens. Modern humans/sapiens (or the great majority of their ancestry) come from the homo antecessor that stayed in Africa and evolved into hedelbergensis (or just evolved from African heidelbergensis—its uncertain whether antessesor is a direct ancestor), which in turn in (also in Africa) evolved into sapiens (which then spread within and outside of Africa). (earlier, the heidelbergensis that migrated to Europe eventually evolved into neanderthal, and denisovans descend from heidelbergensis in Asia).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_antecessor

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_heidelbergensis

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  81. If I need help reaching something up high at Target, I won’t ask Michelle Obama to help me, I’ll ask Paul Kagame’s daughter.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Nobody ever points out how oppressed Michelle Obama has felt by feminist assumptions that became conventional in the early 1970s that tall, broad-shouldered females like her should play basketball. She's kind of a girly type but has the physique of a woman's power-forward, like her older brother, who was twice the Ivy League basketball player of the year, and that has been a source of great irritation to her as she goes through life.
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  82. @Achilles

    I wonder how they will handle the promise of jobs to local residents while still keeping the library operational.
     
    Did you not read to the end of the article?

    All written materials curated by the library will be housed in an annex on the main campus of the University of Chicago where they can be accessed by historians and scholars.

    The Jackson Park location will contain only audio-visual presentations.

    In one panel, a Michael Brown figure will be depicted on his knees, his hands up with palms facing God, pleading for cosmic justice for the black race, while a white policeman guns him down. A looped sound track will feature the wailings of African-American women.

    Other panels will include among other scenes the shooting by a white man of a small hooded black child holding a bag of skittles and atrocities inflicted on Muslims by Christians during the Crusades.
     

    Other panels will include among other scenes the shooting by a white man of a small hooded black child

    That’s your joke, right?

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  83. Tangentially related to all things African – american, more on Tennessee Coates

    http://angrybearblog.com/

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  84. Jm8 says:
    @IHTG

    Nilotic people—like the Dinka, Shilluk, Luo, Nuer, etc (and other Nilo Saharans like the Fur—Nilotic is a branch of the Nilo Saharan ethno-linguistic/language family) are not the ones with the Near Eastern/Eurasian admixture (That would be more the Cushitic peoples who came from the horn of Africa). Nilotics usually have none or very little non-subsaharan ancestry.

     

    Intuitive evidence of this: Nilotics are tall. The "Cushitic" peoples from the Horn of Africa aren't.

    True, that many Nilotic groups are tall (but some other Nilotic and esp. some non-nilotic Nilo-Saharan Nilo-Saharan groups like the Fur or Midob of Central Sudan whose languages are on a branch close too Nilotic, or some of the peoples of the more distant branches of NS like so called “Central or Western Sudanic” of Nilo-Saharan for instance, are not especially tall though some of those tribes often may still tend to be a bit on the tall side—, often more medium height (they basically look more or less like Nilotes—similar skin tones and facial features—but less tall,) Nilo-Saharans are a pretty ancient ethnographic-linguistic group in Eastern SS Africa, so they’ve had some time to diverge and diversify linguistically/culturally, phenotypically, etc

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  85. Thirdeye says:

    Kagame’s daughter has the proportions and facial expression of a Barbie doll.

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  86. So does this mean we’re not all out of Africa after all? Are we talking about Neanderthal jungle fever here?

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  87. Bill says:
    @syonredux

    But something happened: Living Malawians have no genetic connection to those who lived there before. These ancient people must have disappeared virtually without descendants in Malawi.

    It’s possible, Dr. Thompson said, that Bantu farmers drove hunter-gatherers out of places like Malawi. The surviving hunter-gatherers ended up in deserts and other places that weren’t good for crops and livestock.
     
    Dear me, that sounds rather like "ethnic cleansing"............

    Did Bill Clinton apologize for doing nothing?

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  88. @International Jew
    If I need help reaching something up high at Target, I won't ask Michelle Obama to help me, I'll ask Paul Kagame's daughter.

    Nobody ever points out how oppressed Michelle Obama has felt by feminist assumptions that became conventional in the early 1970s that tall, broad-shouldered females like her should play basketball. She’s kind of a girly type but has the physique of a woman’s power-forward, like her older brother, who was twice the Ivy League basketball player of the year, and that has been a source of great irritation to her as she goes through life.

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  89. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    Speaking of Bantu stereotypes
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4901790/Nanny-faces-attempted-murder-throwing-baby-crib.html

    I don’t blame the parents for their foolish assumption that hiring a black nanny would be as safe for their kid as a white one, as much as I blame the liberal media machine who taught them the lie all their life.

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  90. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Homo Sapiens didn't exist 800,000 years ago. Jesus man!

    Again, that doesn’t counteract my point. Homo Sapiens did not exist 800,000 years ago.

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  91. @Trelane

    Homo Sapiens didn’t exist 800,000 years ago.
     
    Archaic humans who left footprints did exist then. They lived and evolved in Europe through at least 10 glaciations and interglacials. They may actually be some of your ancestors Mr Nigerian Nationalist.

    “Archaic Humans”

    Your ignorance is mind-blowing. Humans are Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

    Pick up a book, stop being an embarrassment to humankind.

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    Humans are Homo Sapiens Sapiens.
     
    The species and subspecies designations are not capitalized and, being Latin, are italicized as in H. sapiens sapiens.

    Just a tip for ya junior. :-)
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  92. @Anonymous
    Did you really just use the words Bantu Nigerian achievers all in the same sentence?

    Do you have a point or does Anonymity reduce you to blubbering snideness?

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  93. @Nico

    He was President because the stars lined up for him. But if one were to make a list of greatest African-Americans, I’m pretty sure, Bantus like MLK and Frederick Douglass would outrank him.
     
    When American historians list the "greatest American" anything, their criteria are far from neutral.

    For the kill, both Douglass and MLK were technically mixed race, not strictly Bantu.

    Absurd Quibble, considering my statement derives from Steve’s.

    “For the kill, both Douglass and MLK were technically mixed race,”

    So is Obama. Tell me you understood the point Steve was trying to make, then read my counterpoints within that context.

    “For the kill”, calling A-A’s mixed is stretching it: https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations/

    “Similarly, in the United States, the first sub-Saharan President was Nilotic rather than Bantu like the vast majority of African-Americans.”

    This is still bogus.

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  94. Our ancestors had all of this figured out ages ago.

    But the Boazes and Goulds and other dwarves landed (late) on the scene and lo! — science and history began with them, just like “America” began when Grampa Hinkel landed at Ellis Island.

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  95. @Anon
    Why do we need presidential libraries at all? Everything is going digital. If it weren't for fussiness about documents that show presidents in a bad light, all we need is transmission of those documents to the Library of Congress and their digital preservation there for all to read online. No need for new buildings, except for crazy arrogant pyramid-building-make-my-legacy tendencies.

    The face of Ozymandias’s statue was actually part of the Ozymandias Presidential Library. Few know this.

    (The poem: http://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/poems/ozymandias )

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  96. Trelane says:
    @Nigerian Nationalist
    "Archaic Humans"

    Your ignorance is mind-blowing. Humans are Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

    Pick up a book, stop being an embarrassment to humankind.

    Humans are Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

    The species and subspecies designations are not capitalized and, being Latin, are italicized as in H. sapiens sapiens.

    Just a tip for ya junior. :-)

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  97. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Altai
    An amusing thing about this and recent finds about East Asians is this. Northern Europeans have been in place and with far less introgression than just about anybody else except Australesian/Melanesian peoples and some Middle Eastern populations. The history of the Americas is less clear but certainly there was a lot of internal movement and turnover in what we now call Canada/Alaska.

    Greenlanders, for instance, have been living there for a shorter time than Icelanders, having wiped out the previous indigenous population (Now called the Dorset people, referring to a broad collection of populations across North East Canada and Greenland who had a distinctive shared material culture, The Norse never gave them a distinct name in any records which survive.) and potentially the Norse settlements. (Though these likely collapsed more due to inability to adapt to the harsh conditions than conflict with outside groups.)

    But I doubt anyone will care about the swamping of the indigenous populations of Ireland, Norway or Finland any time soon. I'm already told the world will be a better place with fewer and fewer ethnic Swedes in Sweden.

    Yep.

    And it was the *Swedish Government* and *Swedish Prime Minister* who intimated those statements.

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  98. @Trelane
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/news/photos/000/764/76414.adapt.536.1.jpg

    I wonder where these came from? Eight hundred thousand-year-old human footprints in Happisburgh, England.
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    Thanks. That was the article I read recently about old European footprints. The thing I posted was for the picture of the guy looking at the footprints which I thought was possibly ironic.
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  99. Forcet says:
    @Pierre
    The Bantu and non-Bantu morphology is a little bit more complicated than most people realized (including Steve). It is true that in Rwanda, the Tutsi have Ethiopian-like looks i.e. slender, small noses, and light skin, relative to the Bantu Hutus. But in Kenya, things are different. There, the Luo, which are Nilotes, are quite dark and look very West African. The Kikuyu, who are Bantu, are quite light skin and more similar looking to the Tutsi.

    The Kagame-Obama picture is very misleading. Barack Obama today resembles a Kikuyu far more than Luo, even though his dad is Luo. Of course, morphology can tell you a lot but can be misleading.

    “The Bantu and non-Bantu morphology is a little bit more complicated than most people realized (including Steve).”

    This is an understatement, and what many people don’t realize is that things like the prognathism and less developed chins that typify west africans/bantus isn’t all that typical for most other africans. Nilotic populations are generally orthognatic (flat-jawed, the opposite of prognathism) with more developed chins, and this includes south sudanese like the Dinka and Nuer. This has been documented in anthropological literature for sometime and is evident from profile shots, despite how they have typically negroid features like flat, wide noses and big lips. They’re also perhaps the darkest and tallest africans.

    Even various khoisan groups exhibit these traits, like the khoisan man on the cover of this book: https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Land-Bushmen-Kalahari-Desert/dp/0802140513/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1506146291&sr=1-1&keywords=healing+land

    This also extends to the various nilotic populations, and many of them exhibit relatively caucasoid features like thinner, narrower noses and thinner lips. Many of them do bare resemblance to east africans, like the Kikuyu you mention, though I disagree they’re at all lighter. Another poster claimed the Tutsi are mostly bantu, but I don’t know about that- I’m not familiar with the DNA evidence, but they by and large don’t resemble the bantu much at all and altogether more closely resemble east africans. Old profile shots comparing tutsi to hutu are can be pretty striking:

    But the point I’m getting is that this research supposedly lends credence to old ideas about racial introgression in SS africa and the “Hamitic race” theory, and that the caucasoid tendencies in these populations is due to admixture from near easterners:

    “In all, these genetic patterns suggest that early farmers or herders from the Near East swept down through Egypt into East Africa several thousand years ago. They then kept expanding over the centuries until their descendants reached the southern edge of the continent.”

    Whatever mixture has occurred between bantus and nilotes, the physical features that exist in these populations are variously extremes that are very, very unlikely to have arisen through admixture. The southern sudanese and other very dark nilotes are testament to this- nobody would insinuate they have significant non-african. These populations variously have features dark skin, kinky hair, thin, spindly body plans distinct from even from western africans, yet also orthognathism, developed chins, and tendencies to other caucasoid facial features.

    This is even true of east africans like ethiopians and somalians. They have small teeth, reduced brows and prognathism, dark skin, very thin, narrow tall noses, rounded foreheads, thin lips etc. They have extremes of both negroids and caucasoids that really don’t match with the ancestry proportions given for them. Somalians likewise have some distinct traits that set them apart from any surrounding populations- they seem to be the only race of people prone to “fiveheads” and typically have pretty small faces.

    From this, I’ve gotten the impression the various nilotic groups and east africans broadly belong to a branch of africans altogether distinct from bantus, and their features are essentially indigenous.

    And I don’t get this: “In all, these genetic patterns suggest that early farmers or herders from the Near East swept down through Egypt into East Africa several thousand years ago. They then kept expanding over the centuries until their descendants reached the southern edge of the continent.”

    So why didn’t these people seemingly leave any imprint on the ancestors of the south sudanese?

    And this: “Near Eastern genes were also found in a skeleton from South Africa about 1,200 years old; according to the researchers, some living South Africans carry this DNA today.”

    I really doubt this is related to that group of near eastern farmers/herders they describe. Groups from the near east have been travelling to southern africa by ocean for a very long time. We know the Omanis had a presence in Madagascar as far back as the 7th century. We know the Lemba people of Southern Africa, despite looking like typical bantus, have heavy jewish ancestry that likely derived from an unknown migration in the past.

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    "Whatever mixture has occurred between bantus and nilotes, the physical features that exist...are variously extremes that are very, very unlikely to have arisen through admixture. The southern sudanese and other very dark nilotes are testament to this- nobody would insinuate they have significant non-african. These populations variously have features dark skin, kinky hair, thin, spindly body plans distinct from even from western africans, yet also orthognathism, developed chins, and tendencies to other caucasoid facial features."

    Most Nilotic groups have no Bantu admixture at all (that is "purer" south Sudanese Nilotes that is like Dinka etc. and the other non-Nilotic Nilo-Saharans Central Sudan or Chad). Nor do they have Caucasian/non-African admixture (except for a few Nilotic tribes in Kenya that have a little Cushitic admixture like the Massai and Turkana—and theirs is small). Nilotics (and other Nilo-Saharans) are distinct kind of subsaharan African in themselves (it's its own kind/variant of negroid—though likely distantly related to west Africans/Niger-Congo people, there are several in Africa), distinct from Bantus, West Africans, etc. they are likely originally native to South Sudan/Central Sudan.


    "This also extends to the various nilotic populations, and many of them exhibit relatively caucasoid features like thinner, narrower noses and thinner lips."

    Some, often many Nilotes (depends of the tribe) are prognathic or mesognathic, but they do not tend to have thinner lips or thinner noses (not the Sudanese types without Cushitic or other admixture, generally). They're more likely to have flat noses, though not always or often not particularly wide (noses). Their features (given their lack of admixture) are more local variation, not necessarily caucasoid.

    Cushitic people (see below re: Cushitics) from the horn of Africa though sometimes have thinner noses .

    Some Nilotic Nuer people (from South Sudan), close relatives of the Dinka

    https://www.google.com/search?biw=1102&bih=812&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=nuer+people&oq=nuer+people&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i67k1j0i30k1j0i24k1.5387.6012.0.6170.5.5.0.0.0.0.97.442.5.5.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.4.343...0i13k1j0i7i30k1.0.j9H2e76w3YM

    The "Nilotid type"

    https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=nilotid+type&nfpr=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjMgsywrrvWAhUL2SYKHRmxAAAQvgUIJSgB&biw=1102&bih=812&dpr=1#imgrc=Lkbwp9H5G4cVnM:


    (The Tutsi are not a Nilotic ethnic group. They do have a mix of Bantu, Nilotic and Cushitic ancestry—some of their ancestors were Nilotic and Cushitic. But they speak a Bantu language and the dna evidence suggest that their ancestry tends to be largely Bantu)

    Nilotic people—like the Dinka, Shilluk, Luo, Nuer, etc (and other Nilo Saharans like the Fur—Nilotic is a branch of the Nilo Saharan ethno-linguistic/language family) are not the ones with the Near Eastern/Eurasian admixture (That would be more the Cushitic peoples who came from the horn of Africa). Nilotics usually have none or very little non-subsaharan ancestry (the people that have some are the Cushitics). They (Nilo-Saharans) are a group native to Eastern subsaharan Africa, whose core original homeland is believed to be around south and central Sudan and Chad (and some tribes expanded into Kenya, South Ethiopia and parts of the Uganda/Rwanda region).

    a source with several tables with admixture data on different, Nilotic/Nilo-Saharan, Cushitic (and other Ethiopian), West African, Khoisan and other African groups:

    http://anthromadness.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-mota-mistake.html

    See my comment # 41 where I wrote:

    "Nilotic people—like the Dinka, Shilluk, Luo, Nuer, etc (and other Nilo Saharans like the Fur—Nilotic is a branch of the Nilo Saharan ethno-linguistic/language family) are not the ones with the Near Eastern/Eurasian admixture (That would be more the Cushitic peoples who came from the horn of Africa). Nilotics usually have none or very little non-subsaharan ancestry.They (Nilo-Saharans) are a group native to Eastern subsaharan Africa, whose core original homeland is believed to be around south and central Sudan and Chad (and some tribes expanded into Kenya, South Ethiopia and parts of the Uganda/Rwanda region)...."


    People from the Fur tribe (of Darfur, Central Sudan—not Nilotes, but related to them because they speak a language from a branch of the Nilo-Saharan family other than Nilotic)

    https://www.google.com/search?biw=1102&bih=812&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=Fur+sudan&oq=Fur+sudan&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i24k1.4164.4290.0.4775.2.2.0.0.0.0.78.148.2.2.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.78....0.3AZxEhiphos


    Re: the Lemba, their overall Jewish (or more likely Arab) ancestry is not likely heavy. It likely amounts to a very small fraction (though I know of no autosomal dna studies done on them). They have a large number of Semitic paternal lineages, but that may be due to founder effect, with their overall ancestry being mostly African (like their maternal lineages all are), which would explain their African appearance.

    The Tutsi, due seem to me mostly Bantu on average, though some have significant Nilotic and Cushitic admixture (which results in the taller stature and different facial features of some, some of that might also be due to cultural preferences further selecting by breeding for certain traits after the Cushitic/Bantu/Nilotic mixing occurred in Rwanda—the Tutsi greatly admire height)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutsi#Autosomal_DNA_.28overall_ancestry.29

    , @Jm8
    Edits:

    "Some, often many Nilotes (depends of the tribe) are prognathic or mesognathic, but they do not tend to have thinner lips or thinner noses (not the Sudanese types without Cushitic or other admixture, generally). They’re more likely to have flat noses,..."

    *I meant to say they "are often orthognathic or mesognathic..." (though some are somewhat prognathic too)


    "The Tutsi, do seem to be mostly Bantu on average (or at least heavily so), though some have significant Nilotic as well as Cushitic admixture..."
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  100. Jm8 says:
    @Forcet
    "The Bantu and non-Bantu morphology is a little bit more complicated than most people realized (including Steve)."

    This is an understatement, and what many people don't realize is that things like the prognathism and less developed chins that typify west africans/bantus isn't all that typical for most other africans. Nilotic populations are generally orthognatic (flat-jawed, the opposite of prognathism) with more developed chins, and this includes south sudanese like the Dinka and Nuer. This has been documented in anthropological literature for sometime and is evident from profile shots, despite how they have typically negroid features like flat, wide noses and big lips. They're also perhaps the darkest and tallest africans.

    Even various khoisan groups exhibit these traits, like the khoisan man on the cover of this book: https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Land-Bushmen-Kalahari-Desert/dp/0802140513/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1506146291&sr=1-1&keywords=healing+land

    This also extends to the various nilotic populations, and many of them exhibit relatively caucasoid features like thinner, narrower noses and thinner lips. Many of them do bare resemblance to east africans, like the Kikuyu you mention, though I disagree they're at all lighter. Another poster claimed the Tutsi are mostly bantu, but I don't know about that- I'm not familiar with the DNA evidence, but they by and large don't resemble the bantu much at all and altogether more closely resemble east africans. Old profile shots comparing tutsi to hutu are can be pretty striking: http://44226196.weebly.com/uploads/4/4/8/2/44829035/7049865_orig.jpg?392

    But the point I'm getting is that this research supposedly lends credence to old ideas about racial introgression in SS africa and the "Hamitic race" theory, and that the caucasoid tendencies in these populations is due to admixture from near easterners:

    "In all, these genetic patterns suggest that early farmers or herders from the Near East swept down through Egypt into East Africa several thousand years ago. They then kept expanding over the centuries until their descendants reached the southern edge of the continent."

    Whatever mixture has occurred between bantus and nilotes, the physical features that exist in these populations are variously extremes that are very, very unlikely to have arisen through admixture. The southern sudanese and other very dark nilotes are testament to this- nobody would insinuate they have significant non-african. These populations variously have features dark skin, kinky hair, thin, spindly body plans distinct from even from western africans, yet also orthognathism, developed chins, and tendencies to other caucasoid facial features.

    This is even true of east africans like ethiopians and somalians. They have small teeth, reduced brows and prognathism, dark skin, very thin, narrow tall noses, rounded foreheads, thin lips etc. They have extremes of both negroids and caucasoids that really don't match with the ancestry proportions given for them. Somalians likewise have some distinct traits that set them apart from any surrounding populations- they seem to be the only race of people prone to "fiveheads" and typically have pretty small faces.

    From this, I've gotten the impression the various nilotic groups and east africans broadly belong to a branch of africans altogether distinct from bantus, and their features are essentially indigenous.

    And I don't get this: "In all, these genetic patterns suggest that early farmers or herders from the Near East swept down through Egypt into East Africa several thousand years ago. They then kept expanding over the centuries until their descendants reached the southern edge of the continent."

    So why didn't these people seemingly leave any imprint on the ancestors of the south sudanese?

    And this: "Near Eastern genes were also found in a skeleton from South Africa about 1,200 years old; according to the researchers, some living South Africans carry this DNA today."

    I really doubt this is related to that group of near eastern farmers/herders they describe. Groups from the near east have been travelling to southern africa by ocean for a very long time. We know the Omanis had a presence in Madagascar as far back as the 7th century. We know the Lemba people of Southern Africa, despite looking like typical bantus, have heavy jewish ancestry that likely derived from an unknown migration in the past.

    “Whatever mixture has occurred between bantus and nilotes, the physical features that exist…are variously extremes that are very, very unlikely to have arisen through admixture. The southern sudanese and other very dark nilotes are testament to this- nobody would insinuate they have significant non-african. These populations variously have features dark skin, kinky hair, thin, spindly body plans distinct from even from western africans, yet also orthognathism, developed chins, and tendencies to other caucasoid facial features.”

    Most Nilotic groups have no Bantu admixture at all (that is “purer” south Sudanese Nilotes that is like Dinka etc. and the other non-Nilotic Nilo-Saharans Central Sudan or Chad). Nor do they have Caucasian/non-African admixture (except for a few Nilotic tribes in Kenya that have a little Cushitic admixture like the Massai and Turkana—and theirs is small). Nilotics (and other Nilo-Saharans) are distinct kind of subsaharan African in themselves (it’s its own kind/variant of negroid—though likely distantly related to west Africans/Niger-Congo people, there are several in Africa), distinct from Bantus, West Africans, etc. they are likely originally native to South Sudan/Central Sudan.

    “This also extends to the various nilotic populations, and many of them exhibit relatively caucasoid features like thinner, narrower noses and thinner lips.”

    Some, often many Nilotes (depends of the tribe) are prognathic or mesognathic, but they do not tend to have thinner lips or thinner noses (not the Sudanese types without Cushitic or other admixture, generally). They’re more likely to have flat noses, though not always or often not particularly wide (noses). Their features (given their lack of admixture) are more local variation, not necessarily caucasoid.

    Cushitic people (see below re: Cushitics) from the horn of Africa though sometimes have thinner noses .

    Some Nilotic Nuer people (from South Sudan), close relatives of the Dinka

    https://www.google.com/search?biw=1102&bih=812&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=nuer+people&oq=nuer+people&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i67k1j0i30k1j0i24k1.5387.6012.0.6170.5.5.0.0.0.0.97.442.5.5.0….0…1.1.64.psy-ab..0.4.343…0i13k1j0i7i30k1.0.j9H2e76w3YM

    The “Nilotid type”

    https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=nilotid+type&nfpr=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjMgsywrrvWAhUL2SYKHRmxAAAQvgUIJSgB&biw=1102&bih=812&dpr=1#imgrc=Lkbwp9H5G4cVnM:

    (The Tutsi are not a Nilotic ethnic group. They do have a mix of Bantu, Nilotic and Cushitic ancestry—some of their ancestors were Nilotic and Cushitic. But they speak a Bantu language and the dna evidence suggest that their ancestry tends to be largely Bantu)

    Nilotic people—like the Dinka, Shilluk, Luo, Nuer, etc (and other Nilo Saharans like the Fur—Nilotic is a branch of the Nilo Saharan ethno-linguistic/language family) are not the ones with the Near Eastern/Eurasian admixture (That would be more the Cushitic peoples who came from the horn of Africa). Nilotics usually have none or very little non-subsaharan ancestry (the people that have some are the Cushitics). They (Nilo-Saharans) are a group native to Eastern subsaharan Africa, whose core original homeland is believed to be around south and central Sudan and Chad (and some tribes expanded into Kenya, South Ethiopia and parts of the Uganda/Rwanda region).

    a source with several tables with admixture data on different, Nilotic/Nilo-Saharan, Cushitic (and other Ethiopian), West African, Khoisan and other African groups:

    http://anthromadness.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-mota-mistake.html

    See my comment # 41 where I wrote:

    “Nilotic people—like the Dinka, Shilluk, Luo, Nuer, etc (and other Nilo Saharans like the Fur—Nilotic is a branch of the Nilo Saharan ethno-linguistic/language family) are not the ones with the Near Eastern/Eurasian admixture (That would be more the Cushitic peoples who came from the horn of Africa). Nilotics usually have none or very little non-subsaharan ancestry.They (Nilo-Saharans) are a group native to Eastern subsaharan Africa, whose core original homeland is believed to be around south and central Sudan and Chad (and some tribes expanded into Kenya, South Ethiopia and parts of the Uganda/Rwanda region)….”

    People from the Fur tribe (of Darfur, Central Sudan—not Nilotes, but related to them because they speak a language from a branch of the Nilo-Saharan family other than Nilotic)

    https://www.google.com/search?biw=1102&bih=812&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=Fur+sudan&oq=Fur+sudan&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i24k1.4164.4290.0.4775.2.2.0.0.0.0.78.148.2.2.0….0…1.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.78….0.3AZxEhiphos

    Re: the Lemba, their overall Jewish (or more likely Arab) ancestry is not likely heavy. It likely amounts to a very small fraction (though I know of no autosomal dna studies done on them). They have a large number of Semitic paternal lineages, but that may be due to founder effect, with their overall ancestry being mostly African (like their maternal lineages all are), which would explain their African appearance.

    The Tutsi, due seem to me mostly Bantu on average, though some have significant Nilotic and Cushitic admixture (which results in the taller stature and different facial features of some, some of that might also be due to cultural preferences further selecting by breeding for certain traits after the Cushitic/Bantu/Nilotic mixing occurred in Rwanda—the Tutsi greatly admire height)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutsi#Autosomal_DNA_.28overall_ancestry.29

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    Edits:

    "...(it’s its own kind/variant of negroid—though likely distantly related to west Africans/Niger-Congo people, There are several variants—various distinct local/regional negroid types/variants—in Africa),"

    "Cushitic people (see below re: Cushitics) from the horn of Africa though sometimes have thinner noses (and Cushitics do have some Caucasoid admixture—as opposed to Nilotics who generally do not—, which varies from just under half to a third in Somalis or North Ethiopians to more like 25% or less I believe in some South Ethiopian tribes like the Konso or Borana).

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  101. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8
    "Whatever mixture has occurred between bantus and nilotes, the physical features that exist...are variously extremes that are very, very unlikely to have arisen through admixture. The southern sudanese and other very dark nilotes are testament to this- nobody would insinuate they have significant non-african. These populations variously have features dark skin, kinky hair, thin, spindly body plans distinct from even from western africans, yet also orthognathism, developed chins, and tendencies to other caucasoid facial features."

    Most Nilotic groups have no Bantu admixture at all (that is "purer" south Sudanese Nilotes that is like Dinka etc. and the other non-Nilotic Nilo-Saharans Central Sudan or Chad). Nor do they have Caucasian/non-African admixture (except for a few Nilotic tribes in Kenya that have a little Cushitic admixture like the Massai and Turkana—and theirs is small). Nilotics (and other Nilo-Saharans) are distinct kind of subsaharan African in themselves (it's its own kind/variant of negroid—though likely distantly related to west Africans/Niger-Congo people, there are several in Africa), distinct from Bantus, West Africans, etc. they are likely originally native to South Sudan/Central Sudan.


    "This also extends to the various nilotic populations, and many of them exhibit relatively caucasoid features like thinner, narrower noses and thinner lips."

    Some, often many Nilotes (depends of the tribe) are prognathic or mesognathic, but they do not tend to have thinner lips or thinner noses (not the Sudanese types without Cushitic or other admixture, generally). They're more likely to have flat noses, though not always or often not particularly wide (noses). Their features (given their lack of admixture) are more local variation, not necessarily caucasoid.

    Cushitic people (see below re: Cushitics) from the horn of Africa though sometimes have thinner noses .

    Some Nilotic Nuer people (from South Sudan), close relatives of the Dinka

    https://www.google.com/search?biw=1102&bih=812&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=nuer+people&oq=nuer+people&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i67k1j0i30k1j0i24k1.5387.6012.0.6170.5.5.0.0.0.0.97.442.5.5.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.4.343...0i13k1j0i7i30k1.0.j9H2e76w3YM

    The "Nilotid type"

    https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=nilotid+type&nfpr=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjMgsywrrvWAhUL2SYKHRmxAAAQvgUIJSgB&biw=1102&bih=812&dpr=1#imgrc=Lkbwp9H5G4cVnM:


    (The Tutsi are not a Nilotic ethnic group. They do have a mix of Bantu, Nilotic and Cushitic ancestry—some of their ancestors were Nilotic and Cushitic. But they speak a Bantu language and the dna evidence suggest that their ancestry tends to be largely Bantu)

    Nilotic people—like the Dinka, Shilluk, Luo, Nuer, etc (and other Nilo Saharans like the Fur—Nilotic is a branch of the Nilo Saharan ethno-linguistic/language family) are not the ones with the Near Eastern/Eurasian admixture (That would be more the Cushitic peoples who came from the horn of Africa). Nilotics usually have none or very little non-subsaharan ancestry (the people that have some are the Cushitics). They (Nilo-Saharans) are a group native to Eastern subsaharan Africa, whose core original homeland is believed to be around south and central Sudan and Chad (and some tribes expanded into Kenya, South Ethiopia and parts of the Uganda/Rwanda region).

    a source with several tables with admixture data on different, Nilotic/Nilo-Saharan, Cushitic (and other Ethiopian), West African, Khoisan and other African groups:

    http://anthromadness.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-mota-mistake.html

    See my comment # 41 where I wrote:

    "Nilotic people—like the Dinka, Shilluk, Luo, Nuer, etc (and other Nilo Saharans like the Fur—Nilotic is a branch of the Nilo Saharan ethno-linguistic/language family) are not the ones with the Near Eastern/Eurasian admixture (That would be more the Cushitic peoples who came from the horn of Africa). Nilotics usually have none or very little non-subsaharan ancestry.They (Nilo-Saharans) are a group native to Eastern subsaharan Africa, whose core original homeland is believed to be around south and central Sudan and Chad (and some tribes expanded into Kenya, South Ethiopia and parts of the Uganda/Rwanda region)...."


    People from the Fur tribe (of Darfur, Central Sudan—not Nilotes, but related to them because they speak a language from a branch of the Nilo-Saharan family other than Nilotic)

    https://www.google.com/search?biw=1102&bih=812&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=Fur+sudan&oq=Fur+sudan&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i24k1.4164.4290.0.4775.2.2.0.0.0.0.78.148.2.2.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.78....0.3AZxEhiphos


    Re: the Lemba, their overall Jewish (or more likely Arab) ancestry is not likely heavy. It likely amounts to a very small fraction (though I know of no autosomal dna studies done on them). They have a large number of Semitic paternal lineages, but that may be due to founder effect, with their overall ancestry being mostly African (like their maternal lineages all are), which would explain their African appearance.

    The Tutsi, due seem to me mostly Bantu on average, though some have significant Nilotic and Cushitic admixture (which results in the taller stature and different facial features of some, some of that might also be due to cultural preferences further selecting by breeding for certain traits after the Cushitic/Bantu/Nilotic mixing occurred in Rwanda—the Tutsi greatly admire height)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutsi#Autosomal_DNA_.28overall_ancestry.29

    Edits:

    “…(it’s its own kind/variant of negroid—though likely distantly related to west Africans/Niger-Congo people, There are several variants—various distinct local/regional negroid types/variants—in Africa),”

    “Cushitic people (see below re: Cushitics) from the horn of Africa though sometimes have thinner noses (and Cushitics do have some Caucasoid admixture—as opposed to Nilotics who generally do not—, which varies from just under half to a third in Somalis or North Ethiopians to more like 25% or less I believe in some South Ethiopian tribes like the Konso or Borana).

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  102. Jm8 says:
    @Forcet
    "The Bantu and non-Bantu morphology is a little bit more complicated than most people realized (including Steve)."

    This is an understatement, and what many people don't realize is that things like the prognathism and less developed chins that typify west africans/bantus isn't all that typical for most other africans. Nilotic populations are generally orthognatic (flat-jawed, the opposite of prognathism) with more developed chins, and this includes south sudanese like the Dinka and Nuer. This has been documented in anthropological literature for sometime and is evident from profile shots, despite how they have typically negroid features like flat, wide noses and big lips. They're also perhaps the darkest and tallest africans.

    Even various khoisan groups exhibit these traits, like the khoisan man on the cover of this book: https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Land-Bushmen-Kalahari-Desert/dp/0802140513/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1506146291&sr=1-1&keywords=healing+land

    This also extends to the various nilotic populations, and many of them exhibit relatively caucasoid features like thinner, narrower noses and thinner lips. Many of them do bare resemblance to east africans, like the Kikuyu you mention, though I disagree they're at all lighter. Another poster claimed the Tutsi are mostly bantu, but I don't know about that- I'm not familiar with the DNA evidence, but they by and large don't resemble the bantu much at all and altogether more closely resemble east africans. Old profile shots comparing tutsi to hutu are can be pretty striking: http://44226196.weebly.com/uploads/4/4/8/2/44829035/7049865_orig.jpg?392

    But the point I'm getting is that this research supposedly lends credence to old ideas about racial introgression in SS africa and the "Hamitic race" theory, and that the caucasoid tendencies in these populations is due to admixture from near easterners:

    "In all, these genetic patterns suggest that early farmers or herders from the Near East swept down through Egypt into East Africa several thousand years ago. They then kept expanding over the centuries until their descendants reached the southern edge of the continent."

    Whatever mixture has occurred between bantus and nilotes, the physical features that exist in these populations are variously extremes that are very, very unlikely to have arisen through admixture. The southern sudanese and other very dark nilotes are testament to this- nobody would insinuate they have significant non-african. These populations variously have features dark skin, kinky hair, thin, spindly body plans distinct from even from western africans, yet also orthognathism, developed chins, and tendencies to other caucasoid facial features.

    This is even true of east africans like ethiopians and somalians. They have small teeth, reduced brows and prognathism, dark skin, very thin, narrow tall noses, rounded foreheads, thin lips etc. They have extremes of both negroids and caucasoids that really don't match with the ancestry proportions given for them. Somalians likewise have some distinct traits that set them apart from any surrounding populations- they seem to be the only race of people prone to "fiveheads" and typically have pretty small faces.

    From this, I've gotten the impression the various nilotic groups and east africans broadly belong to a branch of africans altogether distinct from bantus, and their features are essentially indigenous.

    And I don't get this: "In all, these genetic patterns suggest that early farmers or herders from the Near East swept down through Egypt into East Africa several thousand years ago. They then kept expanding over the centuries until their descendants reached the southern edge of the continent."

    So why didn't these people seemingly leave any imprint on the ancestors of the south sudanese?

    And this: "Near Eastern genes were also found in a skeleton from South Africa about 1,200 years old; according to the researchers, some living South Africans carry this DNA today."

    I really doubt this is related to that group of near eastern farmers/herders they describe. Groups from the near east have been travelling to southern africa by ocean for a very long time. We know the Omanis had a presence in Madagascar as far back as the 7th century. We know the Lemba people of Southern Africa, despite looking like typical bantus, have heavy jewish ancestry that likely derived from an unknown migration in the past.

    Edits:

    “Some, often many Nilotes (depends of the tribe) are prognathic or mesognathic, but they do not tend to have thinner lips or thinner noses (not the Sudanese types without Cushitic or other admixture, generally). They’re more likely to have flat noses,…”

    *I meant to say they “are often orthognathic or mesognathic…” (though some are somewhat prognathic too)

    “The Tutsi, do seem to be mostly Bantu on average (or at least heavily so), though some have significant Nilotic as well as Cushitic admixture…”

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  103. DRA says:
    @SteveRogers42
    Did they change their name to Tutsi after this song came out?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=KO0-owOOnNw

    The “Wa” part of Watusi means “people” See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabenzi

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  104. DRA says:
    @Moses
    Seems the Bantu didn't know that diversity (i.e. fewer Bantu) is a strength.

    Imagine the heights they could have scaled if they had kept down their numbers!

    The “Wa” part of Watusi means people. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabenzi

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  105. @Joe Stalin
    Can you just imagine the depravity of inviting these people into your country?


    Family caught carrying ‘bag of mosquitoes’ into Peshawar hospital
    Ali AkbarUpdated September 20, 2017
    1742
    60
    A family in Peshawar was temporarily apprehended by staff at the Hayatabad Medical Complex in Peshawar on September 18 for possessing a bag containing mosquitoes suspected to be carriers of a lethal disease, the director of the hospital, Dr Shahzad Akbar, told DawnNews on Wednesday.

    One of the mosquitoes within the plastic bag held up for examination. ? Photo by author
    One of the mosquitoes within the plastic bag held up for examination. ? Photo by author
    A man, his wife, son and daughter, all residents of Peshawar’s Pishtakhara area, told the security guard at the hospital that they had been promised payment for letting the virus-spreading mosquitoes loose in the hospital, according to Dr Akbar.

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1358911/family-caught-carrying-bag-of-mosquitoes-into-peshawar-hospital

    Can you just imagine the depravity of inviting these people into your country?

    The assumption is that you wouldn’t be inviting these specific people, any more than you would be inviting a notorious criminal from any other country.

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  106. Trelane says:
    @Expletive Deleted
    Mmm .. feet. Me gusta!
    http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/anthropology/trachilos-hominin-like-footprints-05185.html

    Thanks. That was the article I read recently about old European footprints. The thing I posted was for the picture of the guy looking at the footprints which I thought was possibly ironic.

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  107. Hrw-500 says:

    It could be also interesting to talk about the DNA of the Berbers/Amazighs peoples of Northern Africa as well.

    Off-topic, I spotted this one via http://www.rense.com/general96/afk1.html along with some videos posted on Youtube.

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